*Pages 1--162 from  Microsoft Word - 38920*
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 UNITED  STATES  FEDERAL  COMMUNICATIONS  COMMISSION 
 VoIP  SOLUTIONS  FOCUS  ON  DISABILITY  ACCESS  ISSUES 

 SUMMIT 
 FRIDAY  MAY  7,  2004 

 The  Summit  met  in  the  Commission  Meeting  Room  at  FCC  Headquarters,  445  12  th  Street,  S.  W., 
 Washington,  D.  C.,  at  9:  00  a.  m.,  Robert  Pepper,  Chief  of  Policy  Development,  FCC,  presiding. 

 COMMISSIONERS  MICHAEL  POWELL  Chairman 
 KATHLEEN  Q.  ABERNATHY  Commissioner  JONATHAN  ADELSTEIN  Commissioner 
 MICHAEL  COPPS  Commissioner 
 PARTICIPANTS  BARRY  ANDREWS  8x8 
 CARY  BARBIB  Galludet  TAP  BRENDA  BATTAT  Self  Help  for  the  Hard  of 
 Hearing  ED  BOSSON  Texas  Public  Utilities 
 Commission  JEFF  CARLISLE  FCC,  Co-  Director  Internet 
 Policy  Working  Group 
 GUNNAR  HELLSTROM  Omnitor  PAUL  E.  JONES  Cisco 
 PAUL  MICHAELIS  Avaya  ROBERT  PEPPER  FCC,  Chief  of  Policy  D 
 Development  HAROLD  SALTERS  T-  Mobile 
 PAUL  SCHROEDER  American  Foundation  for  the  Blind 
 K.  DANE  SNOWDEN  FCC,  Chief,  Consumer  &  Government 
 Affairs  Bureau  CLAUDE  STOUT  Telecommunications  for  the 
 Deaf,  Inc.  JIM  TOBIAS  Inclusive  Technologies 
 GREGG  VANDERHEIDEN  Trace  Research  and  Development 
 Center  NATE  WILCOX  Vermont  Enhanced  9-  1-  1 
 TOM  WLODKOWSKI  America  Online 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 A-  G-  E-  N-  D-  A 
 OPENING  REMARKS..............................  3 
 PANEL  1......................................  16 
 PANEL  2......................................  57 
 PANEL  3......................................  110 
 CLOSING  REMARKS..............................  158 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 P-  R-  O-  C-  E-  E-  D-  I-  N-  G-  S  1 
 9:  18  a.  m.  2 
 OPENING  REMARKS  3 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Good  morning.  Ill  give  people  4 
 a  chance  to  get  settled.  Good  morning,  my  name  is  5 
 Robert  Pepper.  I  am  chief  of  policy  development  here  6 
 at  the  FCC,  and  co-  chair  with  Jeff  Carlisle,  who  you  7 
 will  meet  in  a  little  while.  8 
 We  are  co-  chairs  of  the  Internet  Policy  9 
 Working  Group.  I  want  to  welcome  everybody  to  the  10 
 second  of  our  Voice  Over  IP  Solutions  Summits.  We  had  11 
 one  on  E911  issues.  12 
 And  we  have  todays  meeting  on  --  we  are  13 
 focusing  on  disability  access  issues.  And  we  are  very  14 
 pleased  that  everybody  is  here.  And  we  are  15 
 particularly  pleased  that  so  many  people  have  come  16 
 from  out  of  town,  as  well  as  people  who  are  watching  17 
 us  on  the  internet,  since  we  are  streaming  todays  18 
 solution  summit  on  the  internet.  19 
 It  is  being  webcast,  and  it  will  be  archived  20 
 on  our  website  so  you  will  be  able  look  at  it  later  21 
 on.  Back  in  December,  on  December  first,  the  22 
 Commission  had  a  public  forum  on  Voice  Over  IP  issues.  23 
 And,  at  that  time,  there  was  broad  consensus  24 
 that,  well,  Voice  Over  IP  is  a  very  exciting  new  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 technology  with  all  kinds  of  new  possibilities.  That  1 
 leads  to  all  kinds  of  new  competitive  possibilities  2 
 and  consumer  benefits,  and  therefore,  traditional  3 
 economic  regulation  might  not  be  appropriate.  4 
 That  there  were  several  very  important  5 
 enduring  public  policies,  social  policies,  that  do  not  6 
 change,  and  that,  in  fact,  Voice  Over  IP  services  need  7 
 to  consider  these  very  important  social  policies.  8 
 And  among  those  we  identified,  and  the  9 
 Commissioners  identified,  and  the  panelist  identified  10 
 affordable  phone  service,  universal  service,  the  11 
 ability  for  first  responders  with  911  to  have  access,  12 
 and  for  consumers  to  have  access  to  911,  the  ability  13 
 for  Law  Enforcement  to  have  access  to  the  information  14 
 that  they  need,  and  also,  very  importantly,  that  15 
 people  with  disabilities  have  access  to  the  16 
 communications  networks  and  services.  17 
 And  so,  at  that  time,  Chairman  Powell  called  18 
 for  a  series  of  what  we  called  Solutions  Summits.  And  19 
 its  important,  of  course,  you  know,  what  you  call  20 
 things.  21 
 And  the  reason  we  call  them  Solutions  22 
 Summits  is  Summits  because  we  want  senior  people  in  23 
 from  industry  from,  in  this  case,  the  disabilities  24 
 community,  from  the  academic  world,  senior  people  who  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 have  been  thinking  about  these  issues  to  come  to  the  1 
 Commission  and  talk  to  us,  and  talk  to  each  other  2 
 about  the  issues  that  are  raised  when  we  move  into  an  3 
 IP  enabled  world.  4 
 And  we  focused  on  the  word  Solutions  because  5 
 thats  exactly  what  were  looking  towards,  not  just  oh  6 
 here  are  problems,  or  here  are  issues,  or  here  are  7 
 questions,  but  rather  we  should  begin  identifying  what  8 
 the  questions  are,  and  then  beginning  to  identify  9 
 possible  solutions.  10 
 So  its  a  constructive  positive  solutions  11 
 oriented  discussion  that  we  are  trying  to  have  today.  12 
 And,  having  spoken  to  people,  I  think  this  is  what  we  13 
 are  going  to  have.  14 
 Just  a  few  house-  keeping  things,  and  then  I  15 
 will  introduce  some  of  our  distinguished  opening  16 
 speakers,  my  bosses,  the  Commissioners.  First,  as  I  17 
 mentioned,  the  event  today  will  be  webcast.  18 
 Second,  it  will  be  archived  on  the  webpage  19 
 we  have  on  FCC,  www.  fcc.  gov/  ipwg,  thats  for  IP  20 
 working  group.  Its  ipwg.  And  on  that  webpage  you  21 
 will  be  able  to  access  not  only  todays  event,  but  22 
 also  the  Solutions  Summit  we  had  E911.  23 
 Todays  presentation  also  will  become  part  24 
 of  the  record  in  the  Commissions  proceeding  on  IP  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 enabled  services.  There  will  be  a  transcript  of  1 
 todays  proceeding  that  will  be  made  part  of  that  2 
 record.  3 
 What  we  will  do  is  have  time  for  questions  4 
 after  each  panel.  But  if  you  could  hold  your  5 
 questions  until  the  panelists  are  finished,  and  then  6 
 we  will  have  all  of  the  questions  together  for  the  7 
 panelists  and  discussion.  8 
 We  also  would  appreciate  that  everybody  use  9 
 a  microphone,  since  we  are  webcasting.  And  so  the  10 
 only  way  that  the  people  out  there  in  cyber-  land  will  11 
 be  able  to  hear  the  questions  is  if  you  come  to  the  12 
 microphone.  13 
 We  have  two  mics  here  for  people.  Please  14 
 identify  yourself  before  speaking.  And,  since  we  have  15 
 signing  and  closed  captioning,  if  people  could  speak  16 
 very  deliberately  and  clearly,  so  it  makes  it  easier  17 
 both  for  the  people  doing  closed  captioning,  as  well  18 
 as  the  people  doing  the  signing.  19 
 With  that,  I  would  like  to  introduce  two  of  20 
 our  Commissioner.  All  of  our  Commissioners  and  the  21 
 Chairman  will  be  here  during  the  day.  Should  we  start  22 
 with  Commissioner  Abernathy  to  make  some  opening  23 
 remarks?  So,  Commissioner  Abernathy.  24 
 COMMISSIONER  ABERNATHY:  Good  morning,  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 everyone.  It  is  a  gorgeous  day,  and  I  appreciate  that  1 
 you  have  all  decided  to  come  inside  anyway  to  help  us  2 
 as  we  address  a  lot  of  these  issues.  3 
 This  is  an  extremely  wonderful  time  in  our  4 
 society  when  it  comes  to  what  technology  can  do  for  5 
 people  who  have  physical  restrictions  of  different  6 
 kinds.  7 
 And  so,  what  Ive  done  over  the  past  three  8 
 years  is  visited  with  a  number  of  you  to  hear  about  9 
 what  some  of  the  frustration  can  be  when  these  new  10 
 technologies  unfold,  and  somehow  we  dont  pay  adequate  11 
 attention  to  how  they  can  really  change  lives.  12 
 The  beauty  of  broadband,  as  Ive  said  before  13 
 we  even  talked  about  with  the  disabilities  community,  14 
 is  its  going  to  change  the  way  people  in  rural  parts  15 
 of  the  country  can  educate  their  children.  16 
 You  have  access  to  professors  that  arent  17 
 available  out  there  on  subjects  that  previously  18 
 couldn't  be  taught.  Its  going  to  change  the  way  we  19 
 do  health  and  tele-  medicine.  20 
 It  gives  access  to  wonderful  ways  of  21 
 treating  illnesses  that,  again,  were  previously  22 
 unavailable.  And  today  we  are  focusing  on  whats  it  23 
 going  to  mean  for  people  with  other  kinds  of  physical  24 
 challenges?  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 And  lets  make  sure  that  its  going  to  1 
 deliver  as  much  promise  to  all  of  those  people,  as  2 
 well  as  to  people  in  rural  American,  and  people  in  3 
 urban  areas.  4 
 So,  Im  very,  very  pleased  to  be  here.  I  5 
 have  a  quick  story,  because  it  shows  how  much  our  6 
 society  really  is  changing  today.  And  its  about  my  7 
 daughter,  because  everything  is  about  my  daughter.  8 
 And  so  I  came  home  last  night  and  there  was  9 
 a  form  she  had  to  fill  out  for  school  next  year.  And  10 
 it  said  what  language  do  you  want  to  take  next  year?  11 
 And  the  choice  was  French  and  Spanish.  12 
 So  I  asked  her  which  one  she  wanted  to  take.  13 
 And  she  said  I  dont  want  to  take  either  one.  I  want  14 
 to  take  sign  language.  And  I  said,  well,  thats  15 
 wonderful,  that  you  want  to  take  sign  language.  16 
 But  youre  supposed  to  also  take  French  or  17 
 Spanish.  And  she  said,  well,  its  a  foreign  language,  18 
 mom,  its  a  different  language,  cant  I  take  sign  19 
 language.  20 
 So,  it  turns  out  her  babysitter  has  been  21 
 teaching  sign  language,  and  she  really  likes.  So  we  22 
 are  going  to  get  a  class  in  sign  language  too.  In  23 
 addition,  she  will  also  of  course  take  a  foreign  24 
 language.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 But  what  it  means  is  that  theres  just  a  1 
 different  way  of  looking  at  the  world.  And  that  means  2 
 that  as  we  approach  these  new  technologies  we  have  to  3 
 make  sure  that  we  are  presenting  them  in  a  way  that  4 
 all  of  these  benefits  will  be  made  available  to  as  5 
 many  consumers  as  possible.  6 
 So,  what  Im  pleased,  is  that  as  many  of  you  7 
 are  here  today  to  help  us  with  these  challenges.  I  8 
 think,  as  Dr.  Pepper  pointed  out,  were  not  talking  9 
 about  the  same  old  traditional  economic  regulation,  10 
 because  thats  not  really  as  much  of  an  issue  when  we  11 
 talk  about  competitive  new  services.  12 
 But  what  we  are  talking  about,  is  what  are  13 
 the  social  obligations,  the  important  policy  14 
 obligations  that  are  not  market-  driven.  So  they  wont  15 
 happen  without  our  involvement.  16 
 And  thats  what  this  Solutions  Summit  is  17 
 about,  how  can  we  deliver  those  benefits  to  all  18 
 Americans?  And  we  look  forward  to  hearing  from  all  of  19 
 you.  20 
 I  appreciate  your  time  and  attention  to  this  21 
 issue.  Rest  assured,  I  will  continue  meeting  with  all  22 
 of  you  through  this  next  year,  again,  so  we  can  23 
 continue  to  think  about,  and  talk  about  how  we  can  24 
 make  sure  that  were  on  the  right  track.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 So  thank  you  very  much,  and  have  a  great  1 
 day.  2 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you,  Commissioner  3 
 Abernathy.  Commissioner  Adelstein?  4 
 COMMISSIONER  ALDESTEIN:  Thank  you,  Dr.  5 
 Pepper,  and  I  thank  all  of  you  for  being  here.  I  6 
 would  also  like  commend  Dane  Snowden  and  the  staff  of  7 
 the  Consumer  and  Governmental  Affairs  Bureau  that  put  8 
 this  excellent  panel  together.  9 
 We  have  an  outstanding  group  of  panelist.  10 
 And  we  really  appreciate  your  taking  the  time  to  be  11 
 here  and  to  share  your  expertise,  and  all  of  you,  the  12 
 participants,  that  took  time  out  of  your  busy  13 
 schedules  and,  as  Commissioner  Abernathy  noted,  out  of  14 
 this  beautiful  day,  to  join  us  here  this  morning.  15 
 And  Id  also  like  to  take  a  moment  to  thank  16 
 the  Chairman  for  doing  this.  He  was  the  one  whose  17 
 initiative  set  up  this  series  of  hearings.  I  really  18 
 think  its  important  that  he  has  recognized  how  19 
 critical  this  issue  is  to  the  future  of  internet  20 
 enabled  services  are  really  put  the  priority  on  it  21 
 that  resulted  in  this  event  today,  which  can  set  for  22 
 us  a  real  agenda  that  we  need  to  follow  to  make  sure  23 
 that  everyone  in  this  country  can  benefit  from  the  24 
 amazing  new  services  and  functionalities  that  can  come  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 with  internet  enables  services  like  this.  1 
 I  used  to  work  on  issues  regarding  Americas  2 
 With  Disabilities  when  I  worked  on  Capitol  Hill  for  3 
 about  15  years.  And  it  was  always  one  of  the  most  4 
 rewarding  things  I  worked  with  because  I  was  able  to  5 
 work  with  people  who  had  ideas  about  charting  their  6 
 own  future  and  just  wanted  the  government  to  be  a  7 
 partner  in  that.  8 
 And  thats  what  were  doing  today.  I  was  9 
 there  when  the  Americans  With  Disabilities  Act  was  10 
 enacted.  And  I  always  try  to  keep  foremost  in  my  11 
 mind,  and  Im  glad  to  see  that  the  Commission  does  12 
 this  as  well,  the  issues  affecting  people  with  13 
 disabilities,  and  to  make  sure  that  all  the  14 
 technologies  that  are  unfolding  can  be  accessed  by  15 
 everyone  in  this  country,  including  those  with  16 
 disabilities  of  various  kinds.  17 
 And  each  kind  of  disability  presents  its  own  18 
 unique  challenges  and  opportunities  as  we  look  at  this  19 
 technology.  Voice  Over  Internet  protocols  an  20 
 incredibly  promising  technology  for  people  who  have  21 
 disabilities.  22 
 It  can  provide  new  opportunities  to  23 
 communicate  more  completely,  both  at  home  and  in  the  24 
 workplace.  VoIP  is  especially  empowering  because  it  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 can  integrate  the  phone  and  voicemail,  audio  1 
 conferencing,  email,  instant  messaging,  and  web  2 
 applications.  3 
 It  can  be  converted  into  text  and  vice-  4 
 versa.  So,  you  can  have  the  voice  become  text,  the  5 
 text  become  voice,  depending  on  what  a  person  needs.  6 
 It  can  remove  the  need  for  TTY  device,  because  TTY  7 
 compatible  calls  can  be  made  from  a  computer.  8 
 This  is  an  incredible  new  era  we  are  9 
 entering.  VoIP  can  also  empower  workers  with  10 
 disabilities  to  perform  their  jobs  better.  Hearing  11 
 impaired  workers  can  read  their  voicemail.  12 
 And  they  can  use  various  programs  to  do  that  13 
 in  a  fraction  of  the  time  it  would  otherwise  take.  14 
 People  who  have  vision  impairments  can  use  IP  enabled  15 
 phones  without  the  need  of  memorizer,  marked  buttons  16 
 on  the  phone.  17 
 VoIP  can  also  help  remote  parties,  loved  18 
 ones  or  professionals,  people  we  work  with,  that  19 
 assist  in  the  care  of  people  with  disabilities.  This  20 
 technology  is  still  developing.  21 
 And  the  potential  is  virtually  unlimited.  22 
 So  we  have  got  to  make  sure  that  we  enable  access  to  23 
 everyone  in  this  country  to  these  new  technologies  as  24 
 they  are  rolling  out.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 And,  as  Commissioner  Abernathy  said,  to  make  1 
 sure  that  as  that  happens  that  nobody  falls  behind.  2 
 And,  in  particular,  given  the  wonderful  opportunities  3 
 and  applications  for  people  with  disabilities,  it  is  4 
 especially  important  with  these  kinds  of  services  that  5 
 we  make  sure  to  completely  exploit  their  potential  to  6 
 the  fullest  extent.  7 
 We  want  to  think  about  this  in  terms  of  8 
 broadband  as  well.  Now,  you  cant  have  these  kinds  of  9 
 services,  VoIP  or  internet-  enabled  services,  unless  10 
 you  have  broadband.  11 
 And  so  that  makes  us  think  about  the  need  to  12 
 deploy  broadband  at  a  fast  and  steady  pace,  and  in  an  13 
 even  way  across  the  country.  I  think  that  this  will  14 
 move  ahead  the  day  that  we  have  to  consider  when  15 
 universal  service  will  be  applied  to  broadband.  16 
 The  purpose  of  universal  service  is  to  17 
 ensure  that  all  Americans  have  access  to  comparable  18 
 services  at  comparable  prices.  The  idea  was  that  19 
 nobody  would  be  left  behind,  be  it  people  that  live  in  20 
 rural  America,  people  that  live  in  high-  cost  areas,  or  21 
 those  who  had  disabilities.  22 
 And  so  the  priority  of  ensuring  that  kind  of  23 
 roll-  out  is  moved  up  as  there  are  new  opportunities  24 
 that  become  available  to  people  through  VoIP.  And  as  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 we  want  to  make  sure  that  everybody  has  comparable  1 
 services,  if  VoIP  becomes  the  new  standard,  and  2 
 becomes  essential,  for  example,  for  those  with  3 
 disabilities,  then  we  have  to  ensure  that  they  have  4 
 the  broadband  connections  necessary  so  they  can  5 
 actually  take  advantage  of  these  internet-  enabled  6 
 services.  7 
 It  will  make  it  easier  to  put  everyone  on  8 
 these  networks  in  an  equal  footing.  So  this  summit  is  9 
 the  first  step  in  reaching  those  key  objectives.  I  10 
 look  forward  to  hearing  from  our  expert  panelist  and  11 
 participants.  12 
 We  have  this  on  closed  circuit  upstairs,  as  13 
 well  as  in  our  offices.  We  are  going  to  continue  to  14 
 monitor  this  throughout  the  day.  And  I  will  want  to  15 
 continue  to  work  with  all  of  you  to  make  sure  that  16 
 your  views  are  heard  as  we  debate  these  important  17 
 issues,  and  as  we  make  sure  that  this  technology  rolls  18 
 out  in  a  smooth,  even,  and  rapid  way  across  the  19 
 country.  20 
 So  thank  you  for  making  me  a  part  of  this.  21 
 I  really  appreciate  it.  It  is  good  to  be  here.  22 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you  Commissioner.  The  23 
 way  we  have  structured  this  morning  is  into  three  24 
 panels  and  panel  discussions.  The  first,  which  is  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 going  to  be  chaired  by  Dane  Snowden,  who  is  chief  of  1 
 our  Consumer  and  Governmental  Affairs  Bureau,  is  going  2 
 to  focus  on  opportunities  presented  by  IP-  enabled  3 
 services.  4 
 And  Commissioner  Adelstein  just  talked  about  5 
 some  of  these  things.  The  second  panel,  which  I  will  6 
 moderate,  is  going  to  look  at  challenges  presented  by  7 
 IP  enabled  services.  8 
 So  we  have  the  benefits  and  potential  9 
 issues.  And  then  the  third  panel  that  Jeff  Carlisle  10 
 will  moderate  is  going  to  focus  on  regulatory  11 
 considerations  for  IP-  enabled  services  and  12 
 disabilities  access.  13 
 Dane  will  moderate,  Im  not  sure,  I  think  14 
 were  just  going  to  probably  sit  there,  except  if  some  15 
 people  have  PowerPoints  they  may  come  up  here  to  do  16 
 their  presentations.  17 
 We  are  going  to  try  to  make  this  as  informal  18 
 as  possible.  But  I,  by  the  way,  want  to  echo  19 
 Commissioner  Adelstein  and  thank  Dane,  and  June  20 
 Taylor,  and  Kelly.  21 
 I  mean,  you  just  have  a  fabulous  group  that  22 
 put  this  whole  event  together.  And  I  said  to  Dane  23 
 earlier,  you  have  now  set  a  new  standard  for  every  24 
 other  bureau  and  office  that  puts  on  a  meeting  like  25 
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 16 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 this,  because  you  have  just  done  a  fabulous  job.  1 
 So  thank  you  Dane.  Thanks  June,  and  thanks  2 
 to  Pam,  Gregory  and  the  whole  team  here.  So,  with  3 
 that  I  will  turn  it  over  to  Dane.  4 
 PANEL  1  5 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you  very  much,  Bob.  My  6 
 staff,  they  always  make  me  look  good,  which  is  not  7 
 necessarily  an  easy  thing  to  do.  And  I  appreciate  it  8 
 very  much,  all  the  hard  work  they  have  put  into  this  9 
 summit.  10 
 Well,  Good  morning  to  everyone.  This  has  11 
 been  a  long  time  coming.  We  are  very  excited  to  have  12 
 this  panel  get  started.  I  want  to  thank  everyone  for  13 
 participating  in  todays  activities.  14 
 And,  as  Commissioner  Adelstein  said  a  moment  15 
 ago,  when  Chairman  Powell  made  the  call  for  a  16 
 Solutions  Summit,  and  he  called  for  three,  our  goal  17 
 was  to  do  just  that,  find  solutions.  18 
 And  what  we  are  here  today  is  to  hear  some  19 
 of  the  solutions  that  we  can  address  as  we  look  at  the  20 
 development  and  innovative  technologies  of  VoIP.  As  21 
 Bob  Pepper  just  mentioned,  the  first  panel  will  22 
 discuss  the  opportunities  of  IP-  enabled  services,  23 
 particularly  as  it  applies  to  people  with  24 
 disabilities.  25 
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 17 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 While  still  somewhat  in  its  infancy,  IP-  1 
 enabled  services  are  rapidly  becoming  a  fixture  as  a  2 
 tele-  communications  platform.  Today,  as  we  focus  on  3 
 the  unlimited  potential,  we  want  to  make  sure  we  keep  4 
 in  mind  the  issues  that  address  persons  with  5 
 disabilities.  6 
 The  first  individual  we  are  honored  to  have  7 
 with  us  today  is  Cary  Barbib,  who  joined  Galludet  8 
 University  Technology  Access  Program,  or  TAP,  in  2001  9 
 as  a  Senior  Research  Engineer.  10 
 His  current  research  areas  include  11 
 assessment  and  applications  of  digital  video  12 
 communications,  wireless  telecommunications,  and  text  13 
 or  VoIP.  14 
 He  has  been  an  active  member  of  the  15 
 technical  incubator  of  the  Alliance  of  16 
 Telecommunications  Industry  Solutions  TTY  Forum.  It  17 
 is  my  pleasure  to  introduce  Cary.  18 
 MR.  BARBIB:  Thank  you.  Okay,  thank  you  for  19 
 having  me  here  today.  Im  going  to  talk  about  some  20 
 opportunities  I  see  in  relationship  to  VoIP  or  IP-  21 
 enabled  services,  the  IP  world,  well  call  it.  22 
 And  some  of  you,  you  know,  we  can  talk  about  23 
 some  of  the  opportunities  for  growth  in  the  future  and  24 
 areas  that  we  can  make  improvement  in.  One  is  video,  25 
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 18 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 as  you  know.  1 
 Video  is  becoming  a  hot  thing  on  the  2 
 internet.  The  people  can  do  video-  conferencing  from  3 
 far  away  places  all  over  the  planet.  It  is  very  nice.  4 
 You  can  feel  like  youre  right  there  in  the  same  room  5 
 with  somebody,  and  you  can  talk  to  your  parents  or  6 
 whoever  it  is  you  would  like  to  speak  to.  7 
 Video  relay  services  is  an  available  service  8 
 now  throughout  the  United  States  and  some  other  9 
 countries  as  well.  And  thats  a  nice  service  that  we  10 
 have  available  to  the  deaf  community  to  enable  quick  11 
 and  equivalent  communication  in  phone  calls  with  the  12 
 use  of  interpreters.  13 
 But  there  is  a  lot  of  room  for  improvement  14 
 and  a  lot  of  growth  in  the  technology  thats  used  15 
 there.  For  example,  I  envisioned  that  we  could  see  16 
 the  interpreter  and  the  person  that  we  are  speaking  17 
 with,  the  hearing  person,  so  its  a  three-  way  18 
 conference-  call,  so  we  can  all  see  each  other,  just  as  19 
 if  we  were  all  sitting  in  the  same  room  together.  20 
 That  would  be  a  nice  feature  to  be  able  to  21 
 have.  That  applies  to  conference-  calls,  forums,  and  22 
 various  types  of  usages  where  you  can,  you  know,  23 
 people  are  talking  with  the  interpreter,  and,  you  24 
 know,  you  can  be  able  to  see  the  interpreter  and  know  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 whats  being  said  and  keep  up  with  them.  1 
 It  also  affects  quality  of  service  issues.  2 
 One  are  where  Ive  noticed  that  video  sometimes  lacks  3 
 is  the  frame  rates  that  you  get  if  the  internet  is  4 
 very  busy  or  something.  5 
 Then  we  suffer  from  that  because  of  the  6 
 ability  to  get  quality  of  service  through  the  speed  of  7 
 our  internet  connection  based  on  the  number  of  users  8 
 and  the  internet  speeds  that  are  being  used  at  that  9 
 particular  time.  10 
 It  does  bring  us  up  to  more  of  a  functional  11 
 equivalency  level  with  a  regular  phone.  You  know,  the  12 
 interpreter  is  able  to  operate  at  a  much  quicker  speed  13 
 and  much  more  fluently  and  fluidly.  14 
 Broadband  in  the  deaf  community  is  somewhat  15 
 equivalent  to  a  dial-  tone  for  hearing  people,  because  16 
 being  able  to  have  that  opportunity  to  use,  you  know,  17 
 video  services,  and  being  able  to  see  somebody  on  the  18 
 screen  that  perhaps  you  could  lip-  read  while  making  a  19 
 phone  call  thats  a  video-  conference  phone  call.  20 
 And  those  hard-  of-  hearing  users  could  be  21 
 able  to  hear  and  also  use  lip  reading  to  be  able  to  22 
 enhance  their  phone  experience.  Being  able  to  use  23 
 video  services,  you  know,  video  on  demand  for  people  24 
 is  an  extremely  popular  thing  at  this  point  in  time.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 And  being  able  to  have  captions  for  phone  1 
 calls,  you  know.  It  would  help  not  only  deaf  and  hard  2 
 of  hearing  people,  but  hearing  people  in  general,  you  3 
 know,  because  if  youre  in  a  noisy  area  or  something  4 
 like  that,  you  could  see  the  captions  and  be  able  to  5 
 still  understand  what  the  person  is  saying.  6 
 If  you  are  on  an  airplane  or  if  you  are  in  a  7 
 bar  where  theres,  you  know,  its  a  noisy  environment,  8 
 and  captions  are  giving  hearing  people  access  to  the  9 
 communication  as  well  as  deaf  and  hard-  of-  hearing  10 
 people.  11 
 Another  area  would  be  the  language  of  12 
 choice.  So  for  me,  if  I  would  like  to  chose,  you  13 
 know,  I  would  like  to  use  sign  language,  or  if  I  want  14 
 to  hear  what  the  conversation,  or  if  I  want  to  have  15 
 captions  for  the  conversation,  then  it  gives  us  16 
 functional  equivalency  and  options.  17 
 You  know,  I  can  also  maybe  have  both.  Maybe  18 
 if  I  dont  catch  something  the  interpreter  says  but  19 
 theres  simultaneous  captioning  of  what  the  hearing  20 
 person  says,  I  can  then,  you  know,  catch  the  exact  21 
 wording  of  what  has  been  said  for  a  particular  22 
 conversation.  23 
 These  services  also  give  us  choice,  and  24 
 allows  us  to  have  preference.  And  the  technology  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 needs  to  tie  everything  together.  And  thats  the  next  1 
 ting  Id  like  to  speak  about,  is  the  opportunity  2 
 there.  3 
 Have  on-  demand  translations,  you  know,  where  4 
 we  have  interpreters  in  different  languages,  you  know,  5 
 between  a  deaf  and  a  hearing  person  just  with  the  6 
 click  of  a  button  we  can  connect  to  an  interpreter  for  7 
 a  different  language,  a  sign  language  interpreter,  a  8 
 French  interpreter,  a  Spanish  interpreter  or  whatever,  9 
 that  is  needed  so  that  anybody  can  connect  to  each  10 
 other  and  do  that  without  barriers  of  language  11 
 impeding.  12 
 Also  mobile-  IP  applications  like  cell  13 
 phones,  pagers,  and  other  devices  that  are  used.  That  14 
 family  of  devices  currently,  you  know,  I  can  use  my  15 
 text  pager  to  contact  people  from  wherever  I  am.  16 
 You  know,  Im  not  limited  to  where  theres  a  17 
 payphone  TTY  or  if  I  carry  a  TTY  around  with  the  cell  18 
 phone.  But,  you  know,  now  Im  untethered  in  what  I  19 
 can  do  with  the  wireless  applications  that  are  out  20 
 there.  21 
 And  thats  great.  But  there  are  still  22 
 issues  there  that  need  to  be  addressed  as  well.  It  23 
 would  be  nice  if  we  had  IP  text  messaging,  so  that  24 
 that  message  could  be  received  anywhere  by  any  device,  25 
21
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 that  every  device  supported  that  text-  messaging,  so  1 
 that  people  could  immediately  connect  to  each  other  2 
 and  be  able  to  communicate  through  that  mode.  3 
 It  especially  applies  to  911  call  centers,  4 
 the  PSAPs.  If  I  could  connect  to  that  PSAP  through  5 
 my,  you  know,  text  pager  without  having  to  use  a  phone  6 
 and  a  TTY.  7 
 You  know,  currently  a  cell  phone  requires  a  8 
 separate  TTY  to  be  carried  around.  So  theres  two  9 
 devices.  And  if  you  forget  your  TTY,  my  cell  phone  10 
 then  becomes  worthless  for  calling  911  or  calling  11 
 relay  because  I  cant  get  a  hold  of  them.  12 
 They  dont  know  where  I  am.  They  dont  13 
 know,  you  know,  whos  making  the  call.  Theres  issues  14 
 to  be  addressed  there.  But  if  everything  could  be  15 
 incorporated  into,  you  know,  where  text  is  a  16 
 possibility  everywhere,  then  I  could  page  911  and  get  17 
 responses.  18 
 And  I  wouldn't  have  to  go  through  a  third-  19 
 party  vendor  for  that.  Also,  in  relation  to  calling  20 
 911,  I  think  it  would  be  nice  that  if  we  called  911  it  21 
 would  automatically  be  able  to  connect  to  video  22 
 interpreters,  you  know.  23 
 When  Im  using  internet  services  that  24 
 automatically  the  software  would  recognize  that  I  need  25 
22
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 to  connect  to  an  interpreter,  and  those  interpreters  1 
 would  be  available  for  those  emergency  calls.  2 
 Location  is  important  as  well.  You  know,  we  3 
 need  to  be  able  to  use  GPS  devices  or  technology  4 
 incorporated  within  text  pagers  to  be  able  to  identify  5 
 our  location  so  that  the  911  call  centers  know  exactly  6 
 where  I  am  when  Im  making  this  call  or  sending  this  7 
 message.  8 
 And  thats  the  same  technology  that  needs  to  9 
 be  used  for  911  centers  connecting  through  the  10 
 internet  for  video  calls,  using  interpreters.  The  11 
 other  thing  is  that  we  need  to  have  an  open  platform,  12 
 a  platform  with  interconnectivity  for  all  devices,  not  13 
 certain  clients  only  connecting  with  each  other,  but  14 
 an  open  platform  so  that  everybody  can  take  advantage  15 
 of  the  devices  that  they  have,  and  use  those.  16 
 And  open  platform  allows  people  to  use  their  17 
 own  software  and  be  able  to  have  developers  18 
 continually  developing  that  software,  and  improving  19 
 it.  20 
 Technology  is  very  important,  especially  as  21 
 we  move  into  the  IP  world  to  make  sure  that  everything  22 
 is  functionally  equivalent  so  that  we  can  stop  using  23 
 some  of  the  old  technology  that  we  are  currently  24 
 stippled  with.  25 
23
 24 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 And  it  prevents  the  fraud  and  barriers  that  1 
 we  face  as  well.  Thank  you  very  much.  2 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you  Cary.  Next  up  all  3 
 the  way  from  Sweden  is  Gunnar  Hellstrom,  who  4 
 specializes  in  accessible  telecommunications  and  5 
 information  technology.  6 
 He  is  the  founder  of  Omnitor,  a  Swedish  7 
 company  devoted  to  consulting,  product  development,  8 
 and  implementing  solutions  in  this  area.  Thanks  for  9 
 joining  us  Gunnar.  10 
 MR.  HELLSTROM:  Thank  you,  it  is  a  pleasure  11 
 to  be  here.  I  want  to  speak  about  a  title  I  called  12 
 accessibility  raised  to  the  power  of  three.  The  three  13 
 are  the  media  that  we  need  to  include  in  the  calls  14 
 now,  when  we  have  a  chance.  15 
 Voice  Over  IP  technology  gives  us  very  good  16 
 opportunity  to  improve  the  personal  communication.  We  17 
 can  leave  the  inaccessible  voice-  telephony  behind  and  18 
 include  more  media  in  the  calls,  including  more  people  19 
 in  the  calls.  20 
 We  can  have  video.  Video  can  be  used  for  a  21 
 lot  of  things,  for  sign  language,  for  lip  reading,  for  22 
 recognition,  for  feelings,  for  showing  things.  Text  23 
 character  by  character  just  as  on  the  TTY,  but  with  24 
 better  speed  and  two  ways,  can  be  used  for  25 
24
 25 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 conversation,  for  addresses,  and  other  exact  1 
 information,  for  numbers,  for  spelling,  and  so  on.  2 
 And  voice,  as  e  are  used  to,  is  also  used,  3 
 of  course,  for  the  conversation  part.  But  if  we  4 
 include  these  three  we  open  for  a  lot  of  opportunities  5 
 and  we  establish  services  that  would  give  very  lot  of  6 
 benefits  for  us  all  and  people  with  disabilities.  7 
 And  we  have  a  little  picture  with  a  possible  8 
 user  interface  for  this  kind  of  communication  with  9 
 three  media  in  the  call.  It  is  sign  language  and  text  10 
 in  the  bottom  and  also  the  possibility  to  have  voice.  11 
 And  thats  the  focus  on  what  we  should  go  12 
 with.  One  good  example  is  the  benefit  for  deaf/  blind  13 
 users.  If  you  can  --  you  have  many  kinds  of  14 
 deaf/  blind  users.  15 
 But  this  one  on  the  picture  here  is  using  16 
 sign  language  out,  but  cant  perceive  sign  language  17 
 in.  So  therefore  she  has  a  device  where  you  get  the  18 
 text  in  and  it  comes  out  onto  a  Braille  display.  19 
 So  it  is  the  same  communication  for  all  20 
 kinds  of  situations.  And  you  can  in  that  way  open  21 
 communication  for  all.  Another  example  is  between  22 
 deaf  and  hearing  persons.  23 
 If  you  dont  go  the  relay,  if  you  want  to  24 
 have  direct  communication,  you  need  to  go  down  to  text  25 
25
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 for  the  main  conversation.  But  the  video  will  give  1 
 you  the  opportunity  to  see  each  other,  to  acknowledge  2 
 and  recognize,  and  show  things,  and  so  on.  3 
 So,  you  can  combine  a  lot  of  situations  like  4 
 this,  and  find  that  the  video,  text,  and  voice  5 
 combination  is  really  the  thing  that  opens  the  6 
 communication  world.  7 
 The  picture  here  is  a  small  computer  with  8 
 this  kind  of  multimedia,  total  conversation  9 
 application.  Its  connected  to  the  3G  phone,  in  this  10 
 case,  so  you  go  mobile  with  it.  11 
 The  more  wide-  spread  we  get  this  new  12 
 telephony,  the  more  benefit  it  will  be,  of  course,  for  13 
 all.  And  here  is  what  you  can  do.  With  IP  you  have  14 
 the  good  benefit  that  you  have  many  kinds  of  access,  15 
 many  kinds  of  connection.  16 
 And  you  can  use  the  same  protocols.  You  can  17 
 have  wired  connections  in  your  office  or  your  home.  18 
 Or  you  can  connect  these  mobile  telephones.  You  can  19 
 have  wireless  LAN  in  private  or  public  settings.  20 
 You  can  have  3D  wireless  connections.  And  21 
 you  dont  need  to  always  be  on  multimedia.  You  can  22 
 also  do  subsets  like  the  video  phone,  with  only  video  23 
 and  voice.  24 
 You  can  do  voice  phones,  you  can  do  text  25 
26
 27 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 phones  with  the  same  protocols  you  get  1 
 interoperability.  And,  talking  about  interoperability  2 
 you  also  need  to  be  interoperable  with  the  old  world,  3 
 the  telephones  and  the  text  phones,  the  TTYs.  4 
 And  that  has  to  be  done  through  gateways  5 
 into  the  old  telephone  network.  And  we  should  not  6 
 forget  to  also  link  in  the  relay  services.  And  one  7 
 important  reason  to  arrange  for  interoperability  with  8 
 the  telephone  network  is  for  emergency  access  where  we  9 
 need  to  link  the  new  way  of  doing  text  in  IP  with  the  10 
 old  way  of  doing  text  on  the  TTYs.  11 
 So,  voice  gateways  and  text  gateways  are  12 
 needed  to  connect  this  world.  We  cannot  do  this  in  an  13 
 efficient  way  if  we  dont  apply  standards.  And  thats  14 
 an  area  where  I  have  been  working  quite  a  lot,  to  15 
 reach  a  reasonable  good  state  currently  with  16 
 standards.  17 
 And  we  can  achieve  interoperability  if  we  18 
 promote  one  preferred  set  of  standards  as  the  main  19 
 ones.  It  seems  that  the  text  medium  is  the  part  that  20 
 is  usually  lagging  behind,  or  not  getting  that  much  21 
 implementation.  22 
 I  would  prefer  that  we  can  agree  on  using  23 
 SIP  for  the  goal  as  a  preferred  set  of  default  24 
 standards,  and  then  video,  and  T.  140  for  text,  and  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 audio  standards.  1 
 And  if  we,  as  much  as  possible,  go  with  2 
 these  standards  we  will  have  easier  to  make  3 
 interoperability.  There  is  quite  good  situation.  4 
 Many  standards  boards  are  working  on  this  idea.  5 
 ITU,  ETSI,  TIA,  all  are  working  and  know  6 
 what  each  other  are  working  with  in  this  field.  And  7 
 its  the  text  part  that  needs  to  be  checked,  that  it  8 
 follows  the  pace  of  the  others.  9 
 But  its  a  good  situation.  And  we  have  the  10 
 impact.  Well,  Paul  will  tell  you  more  about  the  11 
 standards.  We  have  to  put  the  user  in  the  center  so  12 
 you  give  one  terminal  to  the  user.  13 
 It  can  be  different  makes,  different  kinds.  14 
 They  must  use  the  same  protocol  so  that  you  can  get  15 
 interoperability,  and  the  user  can  use  the  same  16 
 terminal  to  access  voice  users,  text  users,  signing  17 
 users,  text  relays,  and  video  relay  services,  and  18 
 emergency.  19 
 And  I  would  like  all  to  join  in  this  20 
 implementation  of  personal  communication  for  all.  21 
 That  will  benefit  us  if  we  harmonize  it.  Thank  you.  22 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you  very  much  Gunnar.  23 
 The  next  panelist  will  be  Harold  Salters.  Harold  is  24 
 the  Director  of  Federal  Regulatory  Affairs  for  T-  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 Mobile  USA,  with  responsibilities  for  various  1 
 technical  and  operational  issues,  including  2 
 interconnection,  infrastructure  access,  network  3 
 reliability,  interoperability,  digital  TTY,  and  4 
 Section  255  implementation.  Thank  you,  Harold,  and  5 
 welcome.  6 
 MR.  SALTERS:  Thank  you,  Dane.  Good  morning  7 
 everyone.  Thanks  for  coming.  As  our  previous  8 
 panelists  have  indicated,  its  so  important  that  we  9 
 add  the  mobility  dimension  to  IP-  enabled  services.  10 
 Adding  this  dimension  is  crucial  to  11 
 accessibility.  Its  important  to  note  that  although  12 
 we  talk  a  lot  about  future  requirements,  that  mobile  13 
 data  devices  today  offer  accessibility  opportunities  14 
 here  and  now.  15 
 And  as  noted,  for  instance,  mobile  data  16 
 devices  liberate  individuals  from  the  whatever  17 
 inconvenience  of  the  portable  TTY  hookup  to  the  cell  18 
 phone.  19 
 And,  indeed,  a  significant  portion  of  the  20 
 market  for  handheld  devices  is  the  deaf  and  hard-  of-  21 
 hearing  communities.  Id  like  to  just  show  you  for  a  22 
 moment  some  of  T-  Mobiles  hand-  held  offerings.  23 
 Up  there  we  have  the  Blackberry  7230,  a  very  24 
 popular  device  both  in  the  business  community  and  in  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 person  communities  as  well.  Next  up  we  have  the  T-  1 
 Mobile  Color  Sidekick,  a  very  popular  device  in  the  2 
 deaf  and  hard-  of-  hearing  communities.  3 
 It  features  AOL  instant  messenger  is  already  4 
 loaded  directly  onto  the  Sidekick  desktop,  and  in  5 
 addition  to  text  messaging  and  email.  And  also  we  6 
 have  the  Trio  600,  which  is  an  integrated  PDA  device,  7 
 again,  offering  email  and  text.  8 
 Its  important  to  note  that  a  significant  9 
 portion  of  the  demand  for  these  devices  are  the  deaf  10 
 and  hard-  of-  hearing  community.  And  also,  that  these  11 
 devices  work  as  an  important  bridge  between  the  IP  12 
 layer  and  the  public  switch  telephone  network.  13 
 As  we  saw  from  the  example  of  Gunnars  cloud  14 
 PowerPoint,  its  very  important  that  there  be  15 
 connectivity.  Indeed  T-  Mobile  is  investigating  16 
 multiple  versions  and  options  of  IP  relay  services  17 
 that  would  be  free  to  the  end  user,  specifically  for  18 
 the  Sidekick.  19 
 So,  again,  this  offer  is  an  important  bridge  20 
 between  legacy  applications  and  future  applications.  21 
 Further,  T-  Mobile  offers  the  Hotspot  WiFi,  which  22 
 offers  laptop  connectivity  to  the  internet.  23 
 What  I  would  urge  all  of  us  to  keep  in  mind  24 
 is  that,  as  we  address  these  issues,  is  that  we  need  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 to  maintain  a  forward  looking  focus  on  IP  and  1 
 accessibility  issues.  2 
 Right  now  there  is  a  great  deal  of  standards  3 
 work  going  on  in  the  international  community,  and  4 
 domestically  as  well,  on  making  those  things  happen,  5 
 as  Gunnar  has  alluded  to.  6 
 Im  also  proud  to  note  that  one  of  my  7 
 colleagues,  Jim  Nixon  from  T-  Mobile,  is  Chairman  of  8 
 the  NRIC  VII  Focus  Group  on  long  term  911  issues.  The  9 
 network  reliability  and  interoperability  councils  10 
 focus  for  the  upcoming  two  year  term  is  going  to  be  on  11 
 precisely  911  issues.  12 
 And  I  think  its  so  important  that  those  13 
 issues  are  being  highlighted.  That  would  Focus  Group  14 
 1B.  Its  also  important  that  we  make  the  public  15 
 safety  community  aware  of  the  need  to  implement  16 
 instant  messaging  access  to  911.  17 
 Not  only  to  PSAPs  (Public  Safety  Answering  18 
 Points)  have  to  have  PSTN  connectivity,  they  have  to  19 
 have  IP  connectivity  as  well.  It  is  encouraging  that  20 
 a  number  of  public  safety  agencies  are  integrating  21 
 today  standards-  based  IP  functionalities  into  their  22 
 overall  public  safety  communities  systems  in  order  to  23 
 enhance  their  own  interoperability  and  efficiency.  24 
 The  challenge  before  us  is  to  get  the  public  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 safety  community  to  also  recognize  that  this  ongoing  1 
 IP  work  needs  to  also  be  done  to  enable  text  and  2 
 instant  messaging  access  to  911.  Thank  you  very  much.  3 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you  very  much,  Harold.  4 
 Next  we  will  have  Tom  Wlodkowski  who  is  Director  of  5 
 Accessibility  at  America  Online.  In  this  role  he  6 
 drives  employee  awareness  of  issues  that  prevent  full  7 
 access  to  the  internet  and  the  development  and  8 
 implementation  of  requirements  and  technological  9 
 solutions  to  enhance  the  accessibility  of  AOL  products  10 
 and  services  to  people  with  disabilities.  Welcome  11 
 Tom.  12 
 MR.  WLODKOWSKI:  Thank  you.  It  is  my  13 
 pleasure  to  be  here  today.  Before  we  get  into  looking  14 
 at  opportunity,  it  seems  to  me  that  one  of  the  things  15 
 that  we  really  aught  to  do  is  take  a  look  at  where  16 
 things  are  currently  today,  in  terms  of  how  we  are  17 
 leveraging  IP.  18 
 Certainly  mobility  seems  to  be  the  19 
 underlying  theme  throughout  the  panelists  20 
 presentations.  And  I  couldn't  agree  more  with  that.  21 
 Untethering  individuals  with  disabilities  from  PCs  22 
 where  they  have  traditionally  had  access  to  access  23 
 technologies.  24 
 You  know,  when  I  go  to  traveling  down  to  my,  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 you  know,  parents  house  or  whatever,  I  dont  always  1 
 have  the  laptop  with  the  access  technology.  So  what  2 
 we  really  want  to  do,  then,  is  make  sure  that  there  3 
 are  IP-  enabled  solutions  that  will  allow  someone,  for  4 
 example,  to  access  their  email  without  need  of  a  5 
 screen  reader,  if  you  are  talking  about  someone  who  is  6 
 blind  or  visually  impaired,  and  making  sure  that  an  7 
 individual  who  is  deaf  can  get  instructions,  driving  8 
 directions,  using  mobile  devices.  9 
 Today  AOL  has  a  few  different  services  that  10 
 we  believe  provide  this  mobility.  AOL  by  phone  is  a  11 
 phone  based  email  system  that  is  available  today  where  12 
 you  can  read,  reply,  and  initiate  an  email  message  13 
 simply  by  recording  a  voice  message.  14 
 That  message  is  then  sent  to  the  recipients  15 
 mailbox  and  they  can  either  pick  it  up  through  the  16 
 traditional  means  of  accessing  email  through  their  PC,  17 
 but  they  can  also,  you  know,  call  AOL  by  phone  and  18 
 hear  the  message  that  way.  19 
 Again,  we  believe  that  is  an  experience  that  20 
 brings  folks  away  from  total  reliance  on  the  PC  to  21 
 benefit  from  the  most  popular  feature  today  on  the  22 
 internet,  email.  23 
 AOL  for  Broadband  over  the  past  six  months  24 
 recently  launched  streaming  closed  captions  on  select  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 video  content,  as  did  our  KOL  service,  and  online  1 
 channel  that  is  target  for  kids  six  to  twelve.  2 
 Today  kids  can  log  on  and  watch  a  ten  3 
 episode  cartoon  series  titled  Princess  Natasha  with  4 
 closed  captions.  The  captions  are  off  by  default,  and  5 
 theres  a  little  button  on  the  video  window  where  they  6 
 can  enable  the  captions.  7 
 AOL  for  Broadband  is  streaming  six  daily  8 
 feeds  of  a  CNNJ  Quickcast,  which  is  a  three  minute  9 
 news  stream  produced  and  provided  by  CNN.  What  we  do  10 
 there  is  use  some  automated  technology  that  can  11 
 actually  take  the  script  of  the  newscast  and  sync  it  12 
 up  with  the  video.  13 
 And  we  are  able  to  deliver  in  an  automated  14 
 fashion  these  six  daily  streams.  Automation  is  15 
 critical,  particularly  where,  at  least  from  where  we  16 
 stand,  in  that  media  shops  are  relatively  small,  17 
 particularly  in  the  internet  space,  where  we  are  a  18 
 content  aggregator.  19 
 And  so  we  are  dealing  with  multiple  20 
 partners.  And  much  of  the  content  is  produced  21 
 exclusively  for  streaming  only.  And  so  some  solutions  22 
 were  done  in  the  area  of  automation  and  ways  of  23 
 syncing  text  with  video  would  certainly  be  welcomed.  24 
 And  wed  be  happy  to  be  a  part  of  that  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 environment.  Looking  ahead,  certainly  AOL  Instant  1 
 Messenger  has  recently  announced  and  launched  video  2 
 capability.  3 
 So  it  is  now  possible  for  individuals  with  a  4 
 webcam  to  get  into  a  video  chat,  as  aim  is  pervasive  5 
 throughout  many  devices,  from  the  PC  through  mobile  6 
 devices,  as  you  just  heard,  available  on  the  T-  Mobile  7 
 Sidekick  device.  8 
 Looking  at  how  we  can  leverage  instant  9 
 messaging  to  enhance  accessibility.  And  the  immediate  10 
 concept  that  comes  to  mind  is  using  instant  messaging  11 
 as  a  gateway  to  relay  and  video  relay  services.  12 
 And  we  are  now  actively  looking  at  ways  of  13 
 doing  this  with  relay  partners  and  hope  to  have  14 
 announcements  in  this  area  very  shortly.  Again,  15 
 looking  for  partners  is  the  best  way  to  advance  these  16 
 solutions.  17 
 So  I  want  to  just,  in  closing,  thank  the  18 
 folks  here  at  the  FCC  for  assembling  this  panel.  And  19 
 I  feel  that  certainly  a  Voice  Over  IP  is  an  emerging  20 
 technology,  and  hope  to  use  the  remainder  of  the  day  21 
 to  learn  actually  more  than  what  we  can  present  now,  22 
 and  hope  that  we  can  come  back  in  years  to  come  with  a  23 
 continuing  brightening  picture,  thank  you  very  much.  24 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you,  Tom.  Next  Paul  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 Jones  from  SYSCO  Systems.  Paul  has  been  involved  in  1 
 research  and  development  of  protocols  and  systems  2 
 architectures  in  the  area  of  multimedia  communications  3 
 including  voice,  video,  and  data  conferencing  over  IP  4 
 networks.  Welcome  Paul.  5 
 MR.  JONES:  All  right,  thank  you.  Just  to  6 
 let  everybody  know,  I  was  a  little  bit  late  getting  my  7 
 presentation  to  the  FCC.  So  we  did  not  have  Braille  8 
 copies  available.  9 
 If  anybody  needs  a  copy  in  Braille,  let  me  10 
 know  and  I  will  get  that  to  you.  So,  a  lot  of  people  11 
 so  far  during  this  session  have  been  talking  about  the  12 
 things  that  we  need  to  do.  13 
 And  certainly  there  still  are  a  lot  of  14 
 things  that  we  do  need  to  do.  But  I  will,  I  guess,  15 
 put  a  little  bit  more  positive  spin  on  things.  We  are  16 
 doing  things.  17 
 We  are  doing  a  lot  of  stuff.  So  the  topic  18 
 of  my  presentation  is  on  total  conversation  through  19 
 ITU  and  IETF  standards,  and  specifically  sign-  type  20 
 speak.  21 
 You  Decide,  is  the  title.  So  as  you  know,  22 
 the  TTY  was  introduced  roughly  in  1964.  And  that  23 
 device  really  opened  up  communications  for  the  deaf  24 
 and  hard-  of-  hearing.  It  allowed  them,  for  the  first  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 time,  to  be  able  to  communicate  with  people  over  a  1 
 telephone  that,  in  the  past,  had  been  limited  only  to  2 
 people  who  had  hearing  ability.  3 
 So  the  introduction  of  the  TTY  really  4 
 changed  things  for  the  deaf.  And  things  really  didn't  5 
 progress  too  much  beyond  the  introduction  of  the  TTY.  6 
 Since  that  time,  the  TTY  device  has  stayed  basically  7 
 with  the  same  technology.  8 
 Different  countries  around  the  world  have  9 
 adopted  different  protocols.  And  they  have  tried  to  10 
 make  improvements  on  the  TTY  device.  And  Mr.  11 
 Hellstrom  in  the  panel  here  was  one  person  who  has  12 
 tried  to  do  a  significant  amount  of  work  to  try  to  13 
 improve  on  the  TTY  device.  14 
 But  I  do  think  we  have  a  unique  opportunity  15 
 with  IP  to  make  a  huge  step  forward.  So  part  of  the  16 
 work  that  I  have  been  doing  for  quite  a  while  now  has  17 
 been  focused  on  multimedia  conferencing,  specifically  18 
 things  related  to  voice,  video,  and  text  integration.  19 
 I  have  been  doing  that  within  the  ITU  and  20 
 the  IETF.  And  I  think  that,  if  you  bring  these  things  21 
 together,  you  will  better  enable  everybody  to  22 
 communicate,  not  only  the  people  that  are  deaf  or  23 
 blind,  but  everybody.  24 
 And  I  think  thats  the  ultimate  goal.  We  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 want  to  have  total  conversation  as  part  of  our  1 
 communications  experience.  So  the  ITU  had  defined  a  2 
 set  of  multimedia  service  specifications.  3 
 The  ITU  then  set  out  and  --  actually  in  4 
 parallel  --  also  defined  multimedia  conferencing  5 
 protocols,  most  notably  H.  323,  H.  320,  and  H.  324.  And  6 
 those  different  protocols  have  different  applications  7 
 basis.  8 
 But  they  are  largely  interoperable.  The  9 
 IETF  worked  on  the  protocol  called  SIP,  which  is  not  10 
 quite  as  interoperable  as  some  of  the  H.  300  series  11 
 protocols,  but  is  a  multimedia  protocol  intended  for  12 
 use  over  IP  networks.  13 
 So  one  of  the  issues  I  think  that  we  faced  14 
 early  on  was  that  those  multimedia  systems  were  15 
 focused  on  voice  and  video.  In  fact,  they  were  16 
 focused  on  room-  based  video  conferencing  systems.  17 
 So,  when  the  IP  came  along,  --  I  think  it  18 
 was  about  the  mid  90s  when  IP  really  started  to  take  19 
 off  around  the  world  --  people  started  looking  at  20 
 turning  this  into  a  Voice  Over  IP  technology,  not  just  21 
 a  room-  based  video-  conferencing  technology.  22 
 And  there  was  not  a  focus  on  text,  per  se.  23 
 So  the  ITU  took  the  task  to  try  to  raise  awareness  on  24 
 accessibility  issues.  We  focused  on  the  needs  of  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 improving  video  for  sign  language.  1 
 We  also  started  to  add  things  to  the  2 
 multimedia  protocols  to  support  text  properly.  So,  3 
 again,  Mr.  Hellstrom  worked  on  T.  140,  which  is  a  very  4 
 important  piece.  5 
 This  allows  us  to  actually  relay  text,  or  to  6 
 send  text  between  multimedia  systems.  The  IETF  RFC  7 
 2793  is  a  document  that  describes  how  to  take  T.  140  8 
 and  transport  T.  140  over  an  IT  network  between  two  9 
 systems.  10 
 H.  323  and  SIP  both  can  utilize  that  11 
 protocol.  So  theres  an  ongoing  initiative  at  the  12 
 moment  called  ToIP,  or  Text  over  IP.  And  the  focus  of  13 
 this  is  to  allow  the  bridging  of  two  PSTN  networks.  14 
 This  is  to  allow  character  by  character  15 
 communication,  which  is  the  preferred  mode  of  16 
 communication,  allow  simultaneous  two-  way  17 
 conversation,  along  with  voice  and  video.  18 
 There  are  inherent  limitations  with  the  19 
 existing  PSTN.  Obviously  we  cant  do  simultaneous  20 
 voice,  video,  and  text  if  we  are  also  interworking  21 
 with  the  PSTN.  22 
 But  it  is  an  important  component  to  be  able  23 
 to  do  the  PSTN  interworking.  And  we  have  a  24 
 standardized  character  set  based  on  Unicode,  so  all  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 languages  of  the  world  are  supported.  1 
 We  want  to  support  all  of  the  TTY  devices  2 
 that  exist  today.  So  we  dont  want  to  leave  somebody  3 
 with  a  legacy  device  behind  moving  on  to  an  IP  4 
 network.  5 
 We  want  to  enable  different  device  types  to  6 
 communicate  to  each  other.  This  is  actually  a  barrier  7 
 internationally.  People  from  one  country  to  another  8 
 cant  communicate  with  their  TTY  devices.  9 
 We  are  going  to  try  to  figure  out  a  way  to  10 
 remove  that  barrier  with  IP.  And  we  want  to  enable  11 
 the  legacy  PSTN  devices  to  communicate  with  all  the  12 
 newer  devices.  13 
 So  theres  a  link  on  my  slide  deck  to  a  14 
 website  that  I  have  been  creating.  Its  not  fully  15 
 fledged  out,  but  it  has  some  information  on  ToIP.  16 
 Theres  RFC,  I  mentioned,  2793,  which  describes  how  to  17 
 convey  Text  over  IP.  18 
 And  you  will  see  on  this  slide  here  we  have  19 
 a  V.  21  device  in  UK  talking  to  a  Baudot  device  in  the  20 
 United  States.  RFC  2793  can  serve  as  the  bridge  for  21 
 that.  22 
 We  also  have  along  with  us  the  ability  to  23 
 bring  in  additional  devices.  We  can  have  endpoints  24 
 that  are  PCs,  endpoints  that  are  IP  phones  bridged  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 with  endpoints  are  traditional  TTY  devices,  everything  1 
 interconnected  over  the  IP  network.  2 
 There  are  some  numbers  on  this  slide  that  3 
 talk  about  the  number  of  users  who  are  using  Instant  4 
 Messaging  short  messaging  system.  Those  are  actually  5 
 forecast  numbers,  looking  at  the  years  2006,  roughly  6 
 in  that  time  frame.  7 
 But  you  can  see  that  text  is  going  to  be  a  8 
 very,  very  important  component.  So  the  ultimate  goal  9 
 is  total  conversation,  to  all  text,  to  be  able  to  work  10 
 with  voice  video,  and  allow  everybody  to  communicate.  11 
 Thank  you.  12 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you  very  much  Paul.  Tom  13 
 said  something  that  I  thought  was  very  striking.  He  14 
 said  he  also  wants  to  learn.  And  thats  something  15 
 that  we  here  at  the  FCC  want  to  do.  16 
 And  before  we  open  it  up  to  questions  from  17 
 the  audience  to  the  panelists,  I  wanted  to  ask  the  18 
 panelists  a  question.  And  if  each  of  you  want  to  take  19 
 it,  or  some  of  you,  or  none  of  you  --  hopefully  one  of  20 
 you  will.  21 
 As  we  at  the  FCC  evaluate  the  policy  22 
 approach  that  we  should  take  for  VoIP,  what  do  you  23 
 consider  to  be  the  most  critical  issue  that  we  24 
 consider  as  we  go  forward?  25 
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 And  then  what  is  the  solution  that  you  see  1 
 in  your  mind,  if  there  is  one  at  this  point,  that  2 
 should  be  thought  through  here  at  the  FCC?  And  I  will  3 
 open  it  up  to  anybody  who  wants  to  take  that  first.  4 
 Harold?  5 
 MR.  SALTERS:  Thanks  Dane.  That  is  an  6 
 excellent  question.  I  think  that  I  would  say  to  the  7 
 FCC  that  the  most  important  thing  is  to  keep  a  forward  8 
 looking  focus.  9 
 And,  although  it  is  important  to  have  a  10 
 bridge  between  the  legacy  technology  and  the  future  11 
 technology,  I  think  the  focus  has  to  be  more  on  the  12 
 future,  rather  than  the  specifics  of  the  linkage  13 
 between  legacy  and  IP.  14 
 So  I  would  say  that  to  focus  on  the  15 
 specifics  of  it  would  probably  detract  from  the  future  16 
 focus.  17 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you,  anyone  else?  18 
 Gunnar?  19 
 MR.  HELLSTROM:  Be  encouraging,  invent  20 
 regulatory  measures  that  are  encouraging,  stimulating  21 
 for  the  industry  in  some  way,  not  that  much  chasing  22 
 and  punishing.  23 
 Be  international.  Look  at  what  voice  24 
 telephony  is  internationally.  You  can  call  anywhere  25 
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 with  voice.  And  we  need  to  have  the  same  thing  with  1 
 accessible  communication.  2 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  So  if  I  understand  you  3 
 correctly,  you  are  saying  get  out  of  the  way?  4 
 MR.  HELLSTROM:  Did  I?  5 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Make  sure  that  we  dont  6 
 inhibit  the  growth  the  IP  related  services?  7 
 MR.  HELLSTROM:  No,  but  you  can  really  act  8 
 positively  and  be  encouraging,  buying  services,  buying  9 
 development.  10 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  All  right.  Harold.  11 
 MR.  SALTERS:  Dane,  just  to  elaborate  on  12 
 what  --  to  follow  up  on  what  Gunnar  said,  I  think  he  13 
 made  an  excellent  point  when  he  said  don't  chase  and  14 
 punish.  15 
 And  I  think  that  is  --  I  think  in  looking  in  16 
 terms  of  future  regulation,  it  should  be  more  of  an  17 
 enablement  focus,  than  an  enforcement  focus,  per  se.  18 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Anyone  else  on  the  panel  want  19 
 to  address  that  before  I  open  it  up?  Cary?  20 
 PARTICIPANT:  Again,  I  think  that  the  FCC  21 
 needs  to  spend  more  of  a  focus  of  emergency  access.  I  22 
 mean,  in  the  IP  world  we  --  the  emergency  world  and  23 
 the  IP  world  are  not  really  connected.  24 
 And  we  need  to  look  at  what  technologies  are  25 
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 available  so  that  we  can  make  these  kind  of  quick  1 
 calls.  So  we  need  to  think  especially  about  the  PSAPs  2 
 and  how  to  get  them  connected.  3 
 I  mean,  there  are  other  areas  of  improvement  4 
 needed.  But  I  feel  in  particular  the  emergency  5 
 services  needs  to  be  tied  in  so  that  we  can,  you  know,  6 
 pull  people  away  from  the  TTY.  7 
 Because,  up  to  this  point,  they  are  still  8 
 tied  to  the  TTY  in  an  emergency.  But  if  we  are  9 
 talking  about  functional  equivalence,  we  want  to  10 
 untether  them.  11 
 So  we  would  like  to  move  faster  in  that  12 
 particular  arena.  13 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thanks  Cary.  Other  comments  14 
 from  the  panel  before  I  open  it  up?  Any  questions  15 
 from  the  audience  here?  Yes,  sir.  If  you  could  16 
 remember  to  state  your  name.  17 
 MR.  BAILEY:  All  right,  thanks  for  having  us  18 
 here,  it  is  a  great  show  at  the  FCC.  My  name  is  Bruce  19 
 Bailey.  I  am  with  the  U.  S.  Department  of  Education.  20 
 We  have  be  actively  migrating  the  VoIP  almost  entirely  21 
 for  cost  savings  reasons.  22 
 And  it  has  gone  very,  very  well.  And  one  of  23 
 the  things  that  has  gone  well  is  the  accommodations  24 
 that  we  are  providing  to  our  employees  that  are  deaf  25 
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 or  blind.  1 
 We  have  very  good  TTY  access.  We  are  very  2 
 pleased  with  how  the  progress  is  going  so  far.  And  if  3 
 there  is  anyone  here  that  wants  to  contact  us  to  ask  4 
 about  that,  we  would  be  more  than  pleased  to  share  our  5 
 progress.  6 
 My  question  is  really  for  Cary  Barbib,  or  7 
 maybe  for  Harold  Salters.  We  are  also  using  a  lot  of  8 
 the  Blackberry,  so  Mr.  Salters  showed  us  the  9 
 Blackberry.  10 
 So  my  question  is  can  you  speak  to  if  the  11 
 accessibility  of  the  Blackberry,  in  terms  of  access  12 
 for  people  with  mobility  impairments,  TTY  access,  or  13 
 some  other  equivalent  facilitation  for  folks  who  are  14 
 blind,  because  thats  an  update  probably  on  any  of  15 
 those  accommodations  at  this  point?  16 
 And  then  for  Cary,  I  was  wondering  kind  of  17 
 along  the  same  lines,  why  dont  you  think  theres  been  18 
 a  consumer  TTY  sell  device  at  this  point?  I  mean,  it  19 
 seems  to  me  at  this  point  cell  phones  are  so  20 
 inexpensive,  market  forces  should  be  able  to  support  a  21 
 cellular  TTY.  Thank  you  very  much.  22 
 MR.  SALTERS:  Thanks,  I  will  take  that,  the  23 
 first  Blackberry  question  there.  I  think  with  the  24 
 Blackberry  and  with  all  the  data  devices,  the  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 compelling  application  is  text  itself.  1 
 And  its  just  very  liberating.  Ive  seen  2 
 estimates,  for  instance,  from  the  Sidekick,  that  ten  3 
 percent  of  the  market  for  the  sidekick  is  exclusively  4 
 people  who  are  deaf  or  hard-  of-  hearing.  5 
 And  thats  amazing,  in  an  area  of  the  6 
 economy  where  things  dont  tend  to  be  market-  driven.  7 
 Its  really  remarkable  that  you  have,  you  know,  ten  8 
 percent  of  the  market  being  persons  with  disabilities.  9 
 So  I  think  in  terms  of  going  forward  it  has  10 
 to  be,  with  the  Blackberry  and  the  other  devices,  it  11 
 has  to  be  can  you  contact  the  911  PSAP?  And  I  think  12 
 the  concept  of  equal  access  and  functional  equivalency  13 
 brings  us  to  the  imperative  to  get  the  public  safety  14 
 communities,  which  are  using  VoIP  the  same  way  the  15 
 Department  of  Education  is  to  rationalize  and  better  16 
 their  internal  processes,  to  take  some  of  that  VoIP  17 
 and  focus  it  externally  at  how  citizens  and  consumers  18 
 can  contact  them  using  those  IP-  enabled  technologies.  19 
 PARTICIPANT:  Again,  this  is  Cary.  In  terms  20 
 of  cellular  TTYs  or  having  TTY  functionality  in  a  21 
 Mobile  device,  right  now  we  are  looking  at  it  in  a  22 
 third  party  type  of  way.  23 
 But  there  is  a  push  to  incorporate  all  these  24 
 services  into  one  device.  There  are  some  services  25 
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 that  ride  on  the  date  networks  so  that  we  can  connect  1 
 to  our  relay  services,  we  can  connect  through  instant  2 
 messaging  through  the  relay  service.  3 
 But  there  is  however  no  current  device  that  4 
 uses  a  voice  channel.  And  I  think  that  is  the  key.  5 
 That  especially  will  help  us  tie  into  the  911  6 
 services.  7 
 Going  via  the  data  service,  we  cannot  8 
 connect  directly  to  911  unless  the  PSAP  itself  accepts  9 
 data  connections  through  IP,  for  example.  Then  we  10 
 would  be  able  to  connect  directly.  11 
 But  up  to  this  point  we  have  not  had  any  12 
 devices  where  thats  built  in.  So,  you  know,  I  really  13 
 couldn't  tell  you  why  thats  not  happening,  why  they  14 
 are  not  available.  15 
 And,  in  terms  of  other  people  with  mobility  16 
 disabilities  or  visual  impairments,  I  really  couldn't  17 
 respond  for  them.  But  I  do  know  that  the  sidekick  is  18 
 not  accessible  for  people  who  have  low  vision  because  19 
 there  is  not  audio  feedback,  or  other  types  of  20 
 feedback.  21 
 Maybe  the  keyboard  is  too  small  for  some  22 
 individuals  to  use.  But  there  are  some  other  phones,  23 
 however,  that  have  audio  feedback,  but  not  that  one  24 
 that  we  as  the  deaf  community  are  using  specifically.  25 
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 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you,  Cary.  Other  1 
 questions  from  the  audience?  Yes,  sir.  If  you  could  2 
 come  to  mic.  3 
 MR.  CROWDER:  Hi,  I  am  Chuck  Crowder  out  of  4 
 VIA  Inc.  You  know,  I  want  to  respond.  I  want  to  make  5 
 a  statement.  But  I  think  I  want  to  make  this  6 
 statement  more  because  I  happen  to  be  a  citizen  of  the  7 
 United  States.  8 
 And  that  is  that  I  agree  that  you  shouldnt  9 
 have  regulations  that  punish  people  or  get  in  the  way,  10 
 but  I  do  think  that  this  is  so  important  that  you  do  11 
 need  a  federal  regulation  to  make  sure  that  people  do  12 
 what  they  should  do.  13 
 Because  its  so  easy  for  companies  to  say  I  14 
 didn't  do  that  because  of  the  cost.  And  they  can  use  15 
 that  as  an  excuse  at  every  instance.  So  you  do  need  16 
 federal  regulation.  17 
 And  I  want  to  be  very  clear  about  that,  18 
 because  I  dont  want  this  notion  of  oh  gee,  you  know,  19 
 youre  going  to  create  a  barrier,  youre  going  to  get  20 
 in  the  way,  and  so  Im  not  going  to  do  whats  right.  21 
 And  so  thats  my  point.  I  want  to  make  sure  22 
 that  were  very  clear  about  that.  We  need  to  do  23 
 something  in  this  area.  And  it  is  achievable.  And  we  24 
 need  to  make  sure  that  there  is  a  regulation  that  25 
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 imposes  that  upon  corporations.  Thank  you.  1 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you.  To  Echo  what  Bob  2 
 Pepper  was  saying,  if  you  would  like  to  stay  in  your  3 
 seat,  we  have  a  roving  mic  as  well  that  if  you  just  4 
 raise  your  hand  we  will  send  someone  over  to  bring  a  5 
 mic  to  you.  Yes,  sir.  6 
 MR.  FREDRICKSON:  I  have  a  question  I  would  7 
 like  to  address  to  Gunnar  Hellstrom.  8 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Could  you  state  your  name  too,  9 
 sir?  10 
 MR.  FREDRICKSON:  Oh,  Im  sorry,  apologies.  11 
 Mark  Fredrickson  from  the  company  MBurst.  Mr.  12 
 Hellstrom,  I  was  wondering  if  you  could  --  what  has  13 
 been  mentioned  many  times  as  the  importance  of  14 
 connections  to  E911  or  emergency  services.  15 
 I  was  wondering  if  you  can  tell  me,  from  16 
 your  experience,  if  there  are  any  lessons  in  the  17 
 international  community  of  how  other  countries  have  18 
 connected  people  with  accessibility  issues  to  their  19 
 various  emergencies.  20 
 Are  there  any  lessons  to  be  learned  from  21 
 other  countries  that  we  might  adopt  here?  22 
 MR.  HELLSTROM:  I  know  at  least  about  how  23 
 its  arranged  in  different  countries,  mainly  for  the  24 
 deaf  and  hard-  of-  hearing,  for  the  text  access  to  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 emergency  services.  1 
 And  I  dont  think  that  any  solution  is  2 
 perfect.  In  Europe  we  have  a  strict  policy  that  all  3 
 emergency  access  should  go  through  the  emergency  4 
 number  112.  5 
 But,  if  you  look  at  the  situation  for  text  6 
 phone  access,  it  is  not  done  that  way  in  many  7 
 countries.  Sweden  does  it  so  that  the  text  phone  goes  8 
 through  the  regular  emergency  access  centers  where  the  9 
 calls  are  too  few.  10 
 So  it  is  a  great  risk  that  they  are  not  11 
 handled  well.  Other  countries  like  the  UK  have  a  12 
 special  number  that  takes  all  text  calls  into  one  13 
 central  location  where  they  are  more  knowledgeable  14 
 about  handling  text  calls.  15 
 But  then  its  a  load  on  the  user  to  remember  16 
 that  strange,  different  number.  Many  countries  do  not  17 
 at  all  have  any  emergency  access  for  other  than  18 
 hearing  voice  users.  19 
 So  its  not  very  much  to  learn.  There  has  20 
 been  an  interesting  committee  in  Europe  called  InCom,  21 
 working  with  the  regulatory  recommendations  for  22 
 accessibility  last  year.  23 
 And  they  definitely  stressed  that  the  24 
 single-  number  access  for  text  and  voice  and,  in  the  25 
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 future,  video  users,  is  the  goal.  1 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you.  Other  questions?  2 
 Theres  a  hand  back  here.  3 
 MR.  ODOM:  Hi,  my  name  is  Jesse  Odom  from  Go  4 
 America.  And  I  had  a  question  for  Paul.  Paul,  you  5 
 and  I  talked  one  not  too  long  ago  about  text  over  IP  6 
 going  through  the  PSTN.  7 
 And  you  showed  the  slide  with  all  the  8 
 different  protocols  that  you  are  working  through  the  9 
 ITU  to  get  standardized.  What  is  it  going  to  take  for  10 
 the  actual  PSTN  implementation  of  this  so  people  11 
 understand  what  the  road  blocks  may  be  in  actually  get  12 
 some  of  these  things  through  for  use?  13 
 MR.  JONES:  Thank  you.  I  dont  think  that  14 
 there  are  any  issues  for  the  PSTN  at  this  point.  It  15 
 is  pretty  fixed.  So  we  look  at  that  as  a  fixed  16 
 network.  17 
 Everything  that  has  to  be  done  is  on  the  IP  18 
 side.  So  I  think  the  biggest  hurtle  is  understanding  19 
 all  of  the  various  TTY  types  that  are  out  there  in  the  20 
 world.  21 
 In  the  United  States,  I  guess  we  are  22 
 fortunate,  and  maybe  unfortunate,  that  we  primarily  23 
 have  Baudot.  But  not  only  Baudot,  there  are  actually  24 
 some  proprietary  protocols  that  are  also  being  used  by  25 
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 the  deaf.  1 
 This  is  a  concern.  How  can  we  bring  those  2 
 proprietary  protocols  over?  We  cant  standardize  3 
 them.  This  is  an  issue.  So  we  are  focusing  on,  in  4 
 the  standards  bodies,  of  just  Baudot  at  this  point.  5 
 Of  course,  for  the  rest  of  the  world,  we  are  6 
 also  focusing  on  every  TTY  type  thats  being  used  in  7 
 every  other  country.  For  the  U.  S.  it  is  a  Baudot  only  8 
 focus.  9 
 So  I  think  the  hurtles  are,  if  you  speak  of  10 
 just  the  U.  S.,  its  getting  Baudots  support  on  the  11 
 gateways  to  interface  between  the  PSTN  and  the  IP  12 
 networks.  13 
 For  the  rest  of  the  world  it  is  the  same  14 
 thing.  But  its  whichever  protocol  is  being  used  in  15 
 each  country.  For  manufacturers  such  as  SYSCO,  we  are  16 
 building  gateways  for  deployment  in  every  country  in  17 
 the  world.  18 
 Of  course  that  makes  it  much  more  difficult  19 
 in  that  we  have  to  focus  on  --  we  have  to  be  able  to  20 
 put  the  functionality  into  the  gateway  to  support  21 
 every  one  of  those  protocols.  22 
 And  that  takes  time.  Its  actually  not  as  23 
 easy  a  task  as  I  had  thought  it  might  be  when  I  set  24 
 out  working  on  this.  But  its  certainly  something  25 
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 that  were  driving  hard  toward.  Did  that  answer  your  1 
 question?  2 
 MR.  ODOM:  I  think  so,  thanks  a  lot  Paul.  3 
 MR.  JONES:  Thank  you.  4 
 MR.  HELLSTROM:  I  can  add  that,  did  you  see  5 
 the  cloud  diagram  in  my  presentation  with  the  IP  6 
 network  and  the  PSTN  network  and  connected  with  the  7 
 text  and  voice  gateways?  8 
 That  is  a  real  network.  We  have  it  up  and  9 
 running.  And  we  have  been  in  a  European  project  for  a  10 
 mobile  communication  for  the  deaf  where  we  implemented  11 
 a  small  gateway  for  text  telephony  into  IP  form  of  12 
 text  standard.  13 
 So  its  doable.  And  we  have  done  it.  But,  14 
 of  course,  it  needs  to  upscaled,  and  we  need  further  15 
 projects  to  do  things.  And  we  have  other  projects  16 
 going  one.  17 
 The  real  challenge  is  to  go  into  the  major  18 
 IP  gateways  to  get  them  to  understand  TTY,  which  takes  19 
 some  power  of  their  processors.  20 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  We  will  take  one  more  question  21 
 from  the  back  of  the  room  here.  22 
 MS.  ROSE:  Im  Ms.  Rose,  Department  of  23 
 Veterans  Affairs.  This  is  for  Tom  Wlodkowski  from  24 
 AOL.  I  am  a  line  person  myself,  and  I  was  assisting  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 another  new  customer  to  load  version  9  of  the  AOL  1 
 software  on  their  PC.  2 
 And  though  I  was  able  to  do  it,  the  3 
 installation  was  somewhat  difficult,  really  would  4 
 require  someone  with  some  intermediate  screen  reader  5 
 experience.  6 
 And  then  we  tried  to  use  the  email  and  found  7 
 that  not  to  be  particularly  accessible.  So  I  was  8 
 thinking  I  could  possibly  use  another  mail  product  9 
 that  I  know  works  better  with  screen  reader  programs.  10 
 But  when  I  called  your  technical  support  11 
 they  said  this  was  not  possible.  So  I  was  just  12 
 curious  to  ask  you  is  that  true,  or  are  they  getting  13 
 ready  to  put  out  another  version  of  the  email  that  14 
 would  work  better  with  the  various  screen  readers  that  15 
 are  out  there?  Thank  you.  16 
 MR.  WLODKOWSKI:  Well  thank  you.  Certainly  17 
 you  can  now  use  other  email  clients  to  get  at  AOL.  We  18 
 just  announced  that  last  week.  We  have  opened  it  up  19 
 to  Outlook  and  Outlook  Express  and  other  email  20 
 clients.  21 
 WE  can  certainly  talk  offline  and  get  that  22 
 information  over  to  you.  I  would  also  be  curious  to  23 
 hear  what  the  issues  were  with  9.0.  Certainly  I  use  24 
 the  mail  program  as  a  blind  user,  probably  25 
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 55 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 affectively.  1 
 And  no  others  do  as  well.  And  so,  perhaps  2 
 there  was  a  screen  reader  issue  in  terms  of  version  3 
 that  you  were  using,  or  what  have  you.  But,  basically  4 
 our  rule  of  thumb  right  now  is  working  with  the  latest  5 
 versions  of  Jaws  and  Window  Eyes  with  the  latest  6 
 version  of  the  AOL  software.  7 
 We  are  furthest  along  with  Jaws  at  this  8 
 point.  And  it  is  still  very  much  a  collaborative  9 
 effort  where  we  retain  consulting  services  from  an  10 
 organization  like  Freedom  Scientific  to  literally  11 
 build  the  customization  thats  necessary.  12 
 I  think  later  this  year  you  will  actually  13 
 find  a  product  thats  coming  out  to  support  our  14 
 broadband  initiatives.  Youll  also  be  able  to  use  it  15 
 in  dialup.  16 
 That  will  really  bring  us  into  parody  with  17 
 some  of  the  other  email  clients  that  you  mentioned.  18 
 And  thats  going  to  be  beta  here  in  the  next  four  to  19 
 six  weeks.  20 
 And  then  it  will  release  later  this  fall.  21 
 So  hopefully  we  can  catch  up  offline  and  I  would  love  22 
 to  get  you  or  your  colleague  up  and  running  helping  us  23 
 test  that  product.  24 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you  Tom.  One  more  25 
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 56 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 question.  1 
 MR.  OBREY:  Ronald  Obrey  with  Hands  On  video  2 
 relay  service.  Id  like  the  FCC  to  take  into  3 
 consideration  to  maybe  encourage  and  enhance  providers  4 
 that  are  coming  into  the  market,  as  far  as  3G  and  5 
 other  broadband  wireless  services  that  will  enhance  6 
 people  that  use  sign  language  as  their  primary  mode  of  7 
 communication.  8 
 So  theyll  have  an  alternative  to  text-  based  9 
 messaging.  Most  of  the  deaf  people  that  use  sign  10 
 language  as  their  primary  mode  of  communication  I  11 
 think  are  very  excited  to  see  some  of  the  other  12 
 countries  in  the  world  have  the  speeds  that  enable  13 
 wireless  devices  to  do  sign  language,  thank  you.  14 
 MR.  SNOWDEN:  Thank  you.  We  want  to  take  a  15 
 quick  seven  minute  break  so  we  can  stay  on  schedule.  16 
 But  before  we  do,  how  about  a  round  of  applause  for  17 
 our  panelists  here.  We  will  re-  adjourn  at  10:  45.  18 
 (Whereupon  the  above-  entitled  matter  went  19 
 off  the  record  at  10:  35  a.  m.,  and  went  back  on  the  20 
 record  at  10:  47  a.  m.)  21 
 DR.  PEPPER:  We  heard  on  the  first  panel  22 
 some  of  the  opportunities.  And  we  also  began  to  hear  23 
 some  of  the  questions  that  are  being  raised  about  the  24 
 move  to  IP-  enabled  services  and  Voice  Over  IP.  25 
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 57 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 And  now  on  the  second  panel  we  are  going  to  1 
 focus  on  some  of  the  additional  challenges  as  a  result  2 
 of  the  shift  to  IP-  enabled  services.  If  we  could  have  3 
 people  move.  4 
 I  think  the  coffee  and  the  sweets  are  5 
 competing  with  the  panel.  Our  first  speaker  is  Brenda  6 
 Battat,  who  is  a  long  time  advocate  for  the  rights  of  7 
 people  with  disabilities.  8 
 She  currently  is  Senior  Director  of  Policy  9 
 and  Development  for  Self  Help  for  the  hard-  of-  hearing  10 
 people.  Shes  a  former  member  of  the  FCCs  consumer  11 
 and  disability  telecommunications  advisory  committee.  12 
 She  currently  serves  on  the  AT&  T  consumer  13 
 strategies  and  issues  council,  the  Northwest  Airlines  14 
 travelers  with  disabilities  advisory  committee  has  15 
 been  very  active.  So  Brenda,  thank  you  for  being  16 
 here.  17 
 PANEL  TWO  18 
 MS.  BATTAT:  Thank  you  very  much.  I  am  19 
 pleased  to  be  here.  The  first  slide  I  just  put  up  to  20 
 remind  everybody  about  the  need.  And  I  think  the  21 
 demographics  here,  I  just  wanted  to  remind  you  about  22 
 the  demographics,  and  really  to  show  the  business  23 
 imperative.  24 
 And  the  question  whether  or  not  it  is  going  25 
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 58 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 to  be  a  business  imperative.  And  some  of  these  1 
 numbers,  as  you  can  see  up  here,  are  eye  openers.  A  2 
 huge  number,  one  out  of  five  people  with  disabilities,  3 
 and  disposable  income,  and  the  trillion  level.  4 
 And  baby  boomers  now  turning  50  every  seven  5 
 seconds,  and  people  losing  their  hearing  now  at  50.  6 
 So  these  are  just  purely  to  say  is  this  going  to  be  7 
 enough  to  make  it  a  business  imperative?  8 
 Well  find  out.  I  know  this  panel  is  about  9 
 barriers.  But  I  guess  when  I  think  about  this  I  see  10 
 it  more  in  terms  of  opportunities.  Although  our  11 
 question  is,  you  know,  how  we  are  going  to  make  it  12 
 happen.  13 
 A  lot  of  people  have  already  talked  about  14 
 redundancy.  And  from  my  perspective  redundancy  is  the  15 
 basis  of  access.  And  Voice  Over  IP  really  offers  16 
 that.  17 
 But  can  we  get  there  quickly  enough?  I  am  18 
 very  concerned.  You  know,  they  are  predicting  50  19 
 percent  of  businesses  will  be  using  VoIP  by  2006,  and  20 
 about  40  percent  of  all  U.  S.  phones  by  2009.  21 
 You  know,  are  we  going  to  get  there  quickly  22 
 enough  even  though  there  are  a  lot  of  opportunities?  23 
 Some  of  the  other  opportunities  are  already  happening  24 
 now  with  several  hard-  of-  hearing  people  using  some  of  25 
58
 59 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 these  upstart  telephone  company  services.  1 
 Getting  for  15  dollars  a  month  just  about  2 
 every  bell  and  whistle  that  you  can  possibly  think  3 
 about.  So,  the  other  attraction  for  some  people,  4 
 assuming  they  have  access  to  broadband  of  course,  is  5 
 that  it  can  provide  them  with  fairly  affordable  6 
 services.  7 
 I  thought  one  of  the  things  to  talk  about  --  8 
 the  barriers  --  would  be  to  also  tell  you  some  of  the  9 
 things  that  people  who  are  hard-  of-  hearing  need.  And,  10 
 you  know,  we  have  talked  a  lot  about  mobile  services,  11 
 mobile  focus,  which  is  really  important.  12 
 But  what  about  using  it  in  your  home?  13 
 Several  other  things  that  need  to  be  connected  with  14 
 that  whole  system  to  make  it  work,  the  hardware.  And  15 
 we  are  running  in  with,  people  who  are  hard-  of-  hearing  16 
 are  running  into  a  lot  of  problems  with  that.  17 
 But  anyway,  lets  looks  at  some  of  the  18 
 features.  Some  of  these  are  already  available.  And  19 
 the  question  is  we  dont  want  to  lose  them.  And  some  20 
 of  them  are  more  like  a  wish-  list,  but  we  believe  21 
 could  be  possible,  because  of  the  opportunities  that  22 
 Voice  Over  IP  offers.  23 
 So  we  are  talking  basic  things  like  clear,  24 
 strong,  high  quality  signal  for  speech  and  tele-  coil.  25 
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 60 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 It  is  very  important  for  hard-  of-  hearing  people.  1 
 Adequate  volume  control,  and  this  is  a  lot  2 
 of  times  on  the  hardware  piece  of  it.  Adequate  volume  3 
 control  easily  manipulated.  Tele-  coil  compatibility  4 
 without  interference  for  people  using  it  with  their  5 
 cochlear  implants  and  their  hearing  aids.  6 
 Simultaneous  voice  and  text  display,  we  have  7 
 that  now  with  their  preferred  relay,  which  is  8 
 captioned.  Are  we  going  to  be  able  to  keep  that?  We  9 
 dont  know.  10 
 From  what  Im  hearing,  if  its  compatible  11 
 with  a  fax  we  will  be  able  to.  But  we  dont  know  for  12 
 sure.  But  we  do  want  to  keep  that  capability,  because  13 
 people  hard  of  hearing  can  hear  some  of  it.  14 
 But  they  want  to  be  able  to  read  at  the  same  15 
 time,  particularly  older  people.  Now,  I  know  these  16 
 baby-  boomers  that  are  coming  along.  Also  being  able  17 
 to  output  a  jack  with  sufficient  power  to  use  18 
 assistive  listening  devices,  neck  loops,  and  such  in  19 
 the  hardware  piece  of  it.  20 
 High  quality  video  just  around  the  mouth,  30  21 
 frames  a  second,  or  faster,  you  know,  just  being  able  22 
 to  have  a  piece  of  that  video  that  will  give  you  23 
 enough  speed  that  speech  reading  will  be  accessible.  24 
 We  have  already  talked  about  simultaneous  25 
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 61 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 audio  and  video  a  lot.  But  also  the  ability  to  add  1 
 text  to  voice  calls.  And  it  would  stream  in  an  2 
 incoming  call.  3 
 Lets  not  forget  about  incoming  calls.  We  4 
 are  on  a  call,  and  we  think  we  are  doing  okay,  and  all  5 
 of  a  sudden  we  start  to  realize  this  is  somebody  we  6 
 just  cannot  hear.  7 
 Can  we  then  immediately  bring  in  text  to  8 
 that  call?  Thats  very  important  for  hard-  of-  hearing  9 
 people.  An  ability  to  initiate  three-  way-  calling  both  10 
 for  incoming  and  outgoing  calls,  which  at  the  moment  11 
 is  not  something  that  can  happen.  12 
 That  should  be.  Thats  on  our  wish-  list.  13 
 But  I  think  that  could  be  something  that  we  could  hope  14 
 for.  We  have  talked  a  lot  about  emergency.  I  dont  15 
 need  to  get  into  that.  16 
 The  ability  to  connect  and  to  relay  into  a  17 
 call  at  any  time,  a  call  that  is  not  a  relay,  but  you  18 
 want  to  bring  it  in  to  a  call  when  you  are  suddenly  19 
 running  into  problems.  20 
 And  maybe,  in  terms  of  getting  less  error  21 
 when  you  are  looking  at  speech  recognition  in  the  22 
 future,  to  have  less  error,  to  enable  hearing  callers  23 
 to  use  their  own  speech  recognition  on  their  end.  24 
 So  each  have  their  own  speech  recognition  on  25 
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 62 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 either  end.  So,  Im  here  talking  a  little  bit  more  1 
 about  existing  hardware  thats  not  accessible.  Many  2 
 people  are  setting  up  Voice  Over  IP.  3 
 And  their  preferred  way  seems  to  be  to  do  it  4 
 with  extendible  cordless  phones.  And  right  now,  even  5 
 though  those  phones  are  regulated,  they  are  not  in  6 
 many  times  accessible,  because  they  are  starting  to  7 
 create  interference  because  they  have  gone  digital,  if  8 
 I  put  it  like  that.  9 
 So  we  are  running  into  trouble  with  people  10 
 finding  that  thats  the  best  way  to  use  Voice  Over  IP.  11 
 But  they  cant  because  the  hardware  is  not  accessible.  12 
 So  what  are  we  going  to  do  about  that?  13 
 And,  you  know,  we  have  talked  about  whether  14 
 or  not  there  should  be  enforcement  versus,  you  know,  15 
 dangling  a  carrot.  We  already  have  laws  in  place.  16 
 And  one  of  the  big  barriers  that  were  facing  right  17 
 now  is  that  they  are  not  being  strongly  enough  18 
 enforced.  19 
 And  that  is  definitely  going  to  impact  hard-  20 
 of-  hearing  peoples  ability  to  use  Voice  Over  IP.  So  21 
 we  really  have  to  look  at  that  very  seriously.  And  22 
 then  I  think  right  now  theres  the  whole  uncertainty  23 
 of  where  Voice  Over  IP  actually  fits  in  to  the  24 
 telecommunications  structure.  25 
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 63 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 Is  it  going  to  be  regulated?  You  know,  1 
 based  on  history,  and  this  is  being  said  over  and  over  2 
 again,  that  really  is  the  only  way  that  we  do  get  3 
 access.  4 
 And  even  then  it  is  hard  to  make  it  happen,  5 
 because  of  the  enforcement  situation,  its  not  always  6 
 as  effective  as  it  should  be  or  it  might  be.  I  think  7 
 the  issue  here  is  that  a  decision  needs  to  be  made  8 
 very  quickly  by  the  FCC  about  this,  because  Voice  Over  9 
 IP  is  rolling  out  extremely  quickly,  very  fast.  10 
 And  we  are  going  to  be  --  I  see  us  being  in  11 
 a  situation  that  weve  been  in  before  where,  you  know,  12 
 we  are  playing  catch-  up  all  over  again  because  we  just  13 
 have  missed  the  boat  in  terms  of  getting  started  14 
 quickly  enough.  15 
 And  there  are  leaders  here,  and  companies  16 
 that  are  obviously  making  efforts  to  make  sure  that  17 
 they  do  have  access  in  their  systems.  But  what  about  18 
 all  the  other  companies  out  there  that  are  not  19 
 represented  here  today,  and  are  not  as  focused  as  20 
 these  companies  who  are  here  today.  Thank  you.  21 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you  Brenda.  Our  next  22 
 speaker  is  Barry  Andrews,  who  is  trained  as  an  23 
 Engineer.  And  he  is  President  of  8x8.  8x8  is  a  Voice  24 
 Over  IP  service  provider.  25 
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 64 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 And  so  Barry  is  going  to  focus  on  the  1 
 questions  from  the  perspective  of  somebody  who  is  2 
 actually  providing  Voice  Over  IP.  3 
 MR.  ANDREWS:  Thank  you,  I  didn't  get  my  4 
 slides  in  on  time,  so  if  anyone  would  like  a  copy,  5 
 please  send  me  an  email  or  see  me  after  the  talk.  6 
 DR.  PEPPER:  They  also  will  be  posted  on  our  7 
 website  with  the  others.  8 
 MR.  ANDREWS:  Okay,  great.  The  continuing  9 
 rapid  adoption  of  broadband  internet  access  is  one  of  10 
 the  major  factors  that  is  driving  the  growing  Voice  11 
 Over  IP  market.  12 
 Services  --  and  by  that  I  mean  voice,  video,  13 
 and  text  --  can  be  delivered  reliably  and  cost  14 
 effectively  over  IP  networks.  There  are  challenges  15 
 that  are  presented  by  IP-  enabled  services.  16 
 Some  of  these  have  been  discussed  already,  17 
 and  a  number  will  be  discussed  in  the  911  regulatory  18 
 panel.  Those  include  usability  and  accessibility.  We  19 
 want  a  service  thats  easy  to  use  by  all.  20 
 Quality,  especially  as  it  relates  to  video  21 
 and  the  requirements  for  bandwidth,  as  well  as  video  22 
 and  audio  sync.  Interoperability,  the  joke  is,  you  23 
 know,  the  nice  thing  about  standards  is  theres  so  24 
 many  to  choose  from.  25 
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 65 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 But  that  doesn't  help  when  youre  trying  to  1 
 communicate  with  other  vendors.  And  public  service  2 
 and  safety,  including  such  things  as  rural  access.  In  3 
 my  very  brief  talk  today  Im  going  to  attempt  to  do  a  4 
 demo  of  one  such  service  called  Packet  8  that  our  5 
 company  offers.  6 
 Its  an  example  today  of  a  voice  and  video  7 
 over  IP.  And  because  Im  worried  about  running  out  of  8 
 time,  Im  actually  going  to  state  my  conclusion  right  9 
 now.  10 
 And  that  is  voice,  video,  and  text  in  a  11 
 universal  service  over  IP  with  global  interoperability  12 
 presents  the  opportunity  to  improve  personal  13 
 communication  for  everyone.  14 
 So,  very  quickly,  Packet  8,  a  description,  15 
 and  then  the  demo.  Packet  8  is  an  end-  to-  end  voice,  16 
 and/  or  video  communication  service  that  operates  over  17 
 the  internet.  18 
 It  allows  calls  to  or  from  any  phone  in  the  19 
 world,  including  traditional  telephones.  And  it  uses  20 
 regular  telephone  numbers  currently  assigned  from  the  21 
 U.  S.  22 
 It  enables  high  quality  voice  and  video  23 
 calls  dependant  on  your  video  bandwidth  that  you  might  24 
 have  home  or  your  office,  or  wherever.  Subscribers  25 
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 66 
 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 can  choose  the  use  of  a  traditional  analog  telephone  1 
 to  connect  to  the  audio  adapter,  their  computer,  a  2 
 cell  phone,  or  a  video  phone  to  place  calls.  3 
 Its  extremely  simple  to  install.  It  4 
 requires  only  the  terminal  adapter  or  video  phone.  5 
 Basically  plug  it  in  and  have  a  dial  tone.  My  two  6 
 year  old  daughter  can  operate  the  video  phone.  7 
 For  her,  you  know,  making  a  phone  call  means  8 
 a  video  call.  Shes  at  that  age  she  knows  nothing  9 
 else  other  than  talking  to  daddy  on  the  video  phone.  10 
 Set  up  is  managed  and  billed  via  the  internet.  11 
 This  is  perhaps  a  subset  of  the  diagram  that  12 
 Gunnar  was  showing  earlier  in  the  first  panel.  Our  13 
 service  is  also  based  on  SIP.  And  Im  happy  to  say  I  14 
 have  not  talked  to  Gunnar  at  all.  15 
 But  the  set  of  protocols  that  we  are  using  16 
 very  closely  matches  what  he  described  as  the  17 
 preferred  setup  protocols.  Okay,  so  we  will  see  if  18 
 Murphys  law  doesn't  take  effect.  19 
 So,  this  is  the  video  phone.  I  think  I  have  20 
 people  here  at  the  FCC  that  can  vouch  that,  you  know,  21 
 they  did  no  special  configuration  of  their  firewall.  22 
 We  basically  just  plugged  it  in.  23 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Can  you  give  him  the  handheld  24 
 mic  or  --  there  we  go.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 MR.  ANDREWS:  So  Im  calling  a  San  Jose,  1 
 California  number.  And  actually  I  dialed  the  wrong  2 
 number.  But  this  is  my  daughter  Janette  at  home.  I  3 
 sweetie,  how  are  you  doing.  4 
 Shes  my  five  year  old.  But  the  two  year  5 
 old  is  hiding  somewhere  there  as  well.  She  can  use  6 
 the  video  phone.  Okay.  Hi  girls.  I  think  they  sense  7 
 someone  else  is  here.  8 
 Let  me  try  another  number.  Okay,  this  one  9 
 is  different  by  one  digit.  Hello  Richard.  Richard  is  10 
 actually  a  former  employee  of  8x8  when  we  had  our  via-  11 
 TV  line  of  video  phones.  12 
 And  he  was  instrumental  in  enabling  that  13 
 device  for  text  over  a  POTS  video  phone.  These  are  14 
 similar  type  things  that  we  are  working  on  with  the  15 
 Packet  8  service  today.  16 
 Hi  Richard,  hows  the  weather  in  California?  17 
 Okay,  so  we  are  somewhat  limited  by  the  bandwidth  18 
 here,  but  you  can  see  that  it  does  work  today.  This  19 
 is  real,  this  is  something  thats  offered  now.  20 
 Thank  you,  Richard,  good-  bye.  Okay,  Im  not  21 
 sure  where  we  are  time-  wise.  I  do  have  a  little  bit  22 
 of  time.  And  maybe  I  will  just  point  out  that  I  go  23 
 into  more  detail  on  some  of  the  usability  requirements  24 
 in  the  last  two  slides.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 Of  particular  interest  are  things  that  are  1 
 outside  of  our  control  as  a  service  provider,  are,  for  2 
 example,  the  bandwidth.  DSL  is  typically  you  have  a  3 
 downstream  of  384  Kbs  per  second  or  greater.  4 
 But  the  upstream  is  limited  to  128.  Video  5 
 and  audio  over  IP  are  symmetric  in  terms  of  their  6 
 bandwidth  requirements.  The  first  call  I  made  was  7 
 actually  to  my  home.  8 
 We  have  cable  there.  The  upstream  bandwidth  9 
 there  is  better  than  DSL,  it  is  256.  And,  of  course,  10 
 the  more  the  better.  Gunnar  mentioned  H.  263  is  a  very  11 
 common  and  very  well  known  video  codec.  12 
 And  theres  actually  a  lot  of  activity  13 
 within  the  ITU  on  enhanced  video  codec  such  as  H.  264.  14 
 All  right,  I  see  Im  out  of  time.  There  is  another  15 
 slide  here  if  anyone  wants  to  read  more.  Thank  you  16 
 very  much.  17 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you.  Our  next  speaker  is  18 
 Claude  Stout.  Claude  has  been  a  frequent  participant  19 
 here  at  the  FCC  in  a  variety  of  forms.  Hes  currently  20 
 Executive  Director  of  Telecommunications  for  the  deaf,  21 
 TDI.  22 
 TDI  is  a  national  non-  profit  advocacy  23 
 organization  that  promotes  equal  access  to  24 
 telecommunications  and  media  for  deaf  people  in  the  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 United  States,  as  well  as  people  hard-  of-  hearing  and  1 
 deaf/  blind.  2 
 Prior  to  TDI,  Mr.  Stout  was  the  Assistant  3 
 Director  of  Community  Affairs  with  North  Carolina  4 
 Division  of  Services  for  the  deaf  and  hard-  of-  hearing.  5 
 Claude,  I  am  very  pleased  to  see  you  again.  And  we  6 
 are  looking  forward  to  your  presentation.  7 
 MR.  STOUT:  Thank  you.  It  is  good  to  see  8 
 everyone  here  today.  Brenda  talked  from  the  9 
 perspective  of  hard-  of-  hearing  people  in  America.  I  10 
 am  going  to  speak  from  the  perspective  of  deaf,  late-  11 
 deafened,  and  deaf/  blind  Americans.  12 
 We  in  America  who  are  late-  deaf,  and  deaf,  13 
 and  deaf/  blind  get  more  encouraged  by  the  advent  of  14 
 VoIP  and  the  internet  capable  services  throughout  15 
 America.  16 
 And  we  are  already  enjoying  some  services  in  17 
 that  arena.  For  example,  right  now  we  are  enjoying  18 
 internet  relay  services.  I  have  to  tell  you  we  dont  19 
 have  to  bother  with  our  TTYs.  20 
 We  just  have  our  computer  on  our  desk.  We  21 
 can  put  aside  that  TTY  and  just  move  forward  using  our  22 
 computer.  And  its  just  in  a  window  on  our  computer.  23 
 And  we  can  move  to  relay  service,  video  relay  service,  24 
 or  a  Microsoft  Word  document  and  transition  between  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 those  applications  very  seamlessly.  1 
 The  other  thing  we  enjoy  using  is  the  new  2 
 video  relay  services  that  have  been  in  existence  for  a  3 
 short  time  now.  And  they  are  amazing  for  the  4 
 community.  5 
 And  I  have  to  let  you  know  that  VRS  is  not  6 
 an  add-  on  service.  Its  not  an  added  value  service  7 
 for  us.  Its  really  not.  It  is  approaching  8 
 functional  equivalency  for  us  more  than  any  other  9 
 service.  10 
 VRS  allows  me  to  use  my  native  language  to  11 
 communicate  with  an  interpreter  through  my  computer  12 
 and  a  webcam,  and  then  communicate  to  a  hearing  person  13 
 on  the  other  end  of  the  call.  14 
 And  it  goes  quickly.  The  hearing  person  is  15 
 going  to  be  much  more  eager  to  receive  phone  calls  for  16 
 me  because  theres  not  delay  thats  experienced  17 
 through  a  traditional  relay  call  in  the  turn  taking  18 
 thats  necessary  there.  19 
 And  as  we  experience  these  IP  services,  20 
 these  basic  services,  we  are  now  seeing  that  we  are  21 
 leaving  the  traditional  services  behind,  that  we  are  22 
 now  ready  to  dive  into  the  multimedia  and  to,  you  23 
 know,  distance  ourselves  from  using  those  traditional  24 
 devices  and  services,  and  be  able  to  use,  you  know,  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 the  other  multimedia  services  that  are  out  there,  like  1 
 have  been  presented  this  morning.  2 
 Theres  a  multimedia  approach  that  can  be  3 
 used  for  audio  text.  Voice  and  video  all  integrated  4 
 into  one  product  that  is  very  exciting  for  us.  Please  5 
 know  that  deaf  people  have  been  involved  with  advocacy  6 
 for  many  years.  7 
 Some  of  us  for  30  years.  Some  of  us  who  8 
 have  lived  a  long  time  have  been  in  it  for  40  or  50  9 
 years,  you  know.  And  we  feel  we  have  seen  such  great  10 
 changes  in  access,  and  that  more  access  will  be  11 
 granted  as  regulations  and  those  things  are  developed  12 
 that  will  help  move  the  technology  forward.  13 
 A  lot  of  this  effort  has  been  by  volunteers  14 
 or  by  companies  just  out  of  the  goodness  of  their  15 
 hearts  developing  these  products.  And  we  encourage  16 
 that  voluntary  participation  from  companies  throughout  17 
 the  United  States  that  have  done  that.  18 
 But  in  order  to  get  more  services  for  us  to  19 
 be  able  to  see  cost  reductions  and  to  be  able  to  have,  20 
 you  know,  more  convenience  and  enjoy  better  customer  21 
 care,  we  want  to  see  a  more  diversity  of  services  out  22 
 there,  more  things  developed  in  the  IP  arena  for  23 
 people  with  disabilities.  24 
 Broadband  is  now  spreading  across  America.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 But  we  need  to  have  research  and  rules  created  that  1 
 allow  us  to  enjoy  the  most  of  broadband.  Right  now,  2 
 as  we  have  talked  about  with  video  services,  sometimes  3 
 we  experience  reduced  frame  rates  that  impede  the  4 
 quality.  5 
 Maybe  in  a  workplace  we  cant  make  a  call  6 
 because  of  a  firewall  thats  set  up  that  doesn't  allow  7 
 a  video  call  to  be  made.  We  need,  you  know,  work-  8 
 arounds  to  be  set  up  that  still  maintain  the  security  9 
 of  the  system  for  companies.  10 
 Many  of  us  use  computers  in  libraries  and  11 
 schools.  And  many  of  us  in  our  community  are  poor  and  12 
 dont  have  computers  at  home.  And  we  depend  on  13 
 support  from  universal  services  funds  that  allow  us  to  14 
 have  access  to  the  technology  that  we  do  need.  15 
 Many  of  us,  you  know,  have  phone  lines  that  16 
 cost  a  certain  amount  of  money.  We  need  to  have  a  fee  17 
 structure  set  up  that  will  no  longer  rely  on  just  the  18 
 phone  service  fees  only,  but  will  allow  IP  fee  19 
 structures  to  be  incorporated  there.  20 
 We  are  also  looking  at,  you  know,  different  21 
 economic  situations,  and  educational  situations,  22 
 people  that  are  very  good  in  English,  or  other  folks  23 
 that  because  English  is  their  second  language  they  are  24 
 not  as  strong  in  that  language.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 Other  people  who  are  underemployed  because  1 
 of  their  disability  that  dont  have  the  money  or  the  2 
 funds  to  be  able  to  access  the  technology  that  gives  3 
 them  full  access.  4 
 Theres  lots  of  areas  where  there  seems  to  5 
 be  a  focus  on  the  high-  need  areas.  But  theres  also  6 
 people  that  may  seem  to  have  a  low  need  that  still  7 
 need  access  to  this  technology.  8 
 This  IP  technology,  you  know,  shouldnt  push  9 
 us  into  another  valley.  But  it  should,  as  products  10 
 are  developed,  and  services  are  developed,  it  should  11 
 lead  us  along  with  the  rest  of  society  in  being  able  12 
 to  take  advantage  of  these  products  and  services  that  13 
 are  developed.  14 
 Technology  means  freedom  for  us.  It  15 
 enlarges  and  expands  the  playing  field  for  us  in  16 
 employment,  in  education,  in  community,  and  other  17 
 arenas  in  our  lives.  18 
 Id  like  to  emphasize  to  the  IP  developers  19 
 out  there,  the  companies  and  the  developers,  that  when  20 
 you  design  and  develop  products  and  services  please  21 
 consider  our  needs,  not  just  develop  a  great  product  22 
 and  then  say,  oh,  I  forgot  to  meet  the  deaf  and  hard-  23 
 of-  hearing  needs  24 
 And  now  what  are  we  going  to  do  with  this?  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 We  are  going  to  have  to  reverse  engineer  or  do  an  ad-  1 
 on  or  something.  If  you  think  of  our  needs  first,  2 
 dont  assume  those  needs,  ask  us.  3 
 Definitely  ask  our  needs.  Ask  people.  Go  4 
 out  in  the  communities,  ask  people  throughout  the  5 
 nation  what  their  needs  are  and  build  them  in  from  the  6 
 ground  level.  7 
 We  applaud  Gunnar  and  others  like  him  who  8 
 have,  you  know,  encouraged  the  production  of  9 
 multimedia,  audio,  text,  and  video  services  all  10 
 combined  into  one  product  so  that  we  can  have  our  11 
 everyday  needs  taken  care  of.  12 
 Theres  a  variety  of  degrees  of  hearing  loss  13 
 out  there.  Theres  a  variety  of  degrees  of  vision  14 
 loss  out  there.  And  all  of  those  needs  need  to  be  15 
 considered.  Thank  you  very  much.  16 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you,  Claude.  Our  next  17 
 speaker  is  Jim  Tobias.  Jim  is  President  of  Inclusive  18 
 Technologies,  and  is  working  with  the  field  of  19 
 technology  and  disabilities  for  about  25  years.  20 
 He  currently  is  providing  consulting  21 
 services  and  telecommunications  and  disability,  aging,  22 
 and  education.  He  was  a  member  of  the  Access  Boards  23 
 Telecommunication  Accessibility  Advisory  Committee  24 
 responsible  for  drafting  section  225  regulations.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 And  hes  also  an  Alum  of  the  FCCs  first  1 
 consumer  disabilities  technical  advisory  committee.  2 
 So  thank  you  very  much  Jim.  3 
 MR.  TOBIAS:  Thanks.  I  want  to  talk  today  4 
 about  what  I  consider  to  be  the  worst  functional  5 
 limitation  that  could  be  imposed  by  the  migration  to  6 
 Voice  Over  IP  or  IP-  enabled  services.  7 
 And  that  is  in  an  information  age  not  8 
 knowing  is  the  worst  disability,  the  worst  functional  9 
 limitation  that  a  person  can  have.  When  we  are  10 
 offered  a  range  of  products  that  allow  us  to  perform  11 
 almost  infinite  combinations  of  services  --  weve  12 
 heard  about  voice  and  text,  and  video,  and  automatic  13 
 translation  --  we  have  to  remember  that  a  product  with  14 
 infinite  functionality,  has  an  infinitely  long  15 
 configuration  system,  with  an  infinite  number  of  16 
 wizard  screens  that  take  an  infinite  amount  of  time  to  17 
 figure  out  which  check  box  and  which  radio  button  do  I  18 
 implement  here.  19 
 And  this  is  not  just  a  theoretical  barrier.  20 
 This  is  an  actual  barrier.  If  you  look  at  the  way  to  21 
 implement  TTY  compatibility  on  todays  generation  of  22 
 cell  phones,  you  find  that  its  rather  deep  in  the  23 
 menu.  24 
 How  are  consumers  expected  to  find  that  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 information?  How  deep  down  do  they  have  to  dive  into  1 
 the  manual  of  an  accessible  mainstream  product  to  find  2 
 the  feature  that  they  need  to  turn  on  or  turn  off  in  3 
 order  to  make  it  work  the  way  they  need  to?  4 
 So  this  profound  lack  of  information  appears  5 
 as  a  barrier  to  individuals  with  disabilities.  And  we  6 
 see  this  in  the  outcomes.  And  to  answer  Danes  7 
 question,  which  wasnt  asked  of  this  panel,  but  I  will  8 
 answer  it  anyway,  what  is  the  approach  that  the  9 
 Commission  by  profitably  take  to  address  10 
 accessibility?  11 
 I  would  say  an  outcomes  oriented  approach,  12 
 not  an  approach  that  says  here  are  the  regulations,  13 
 and  here  is  the  lack  of  complaints,  which  indicates  14 
 that  there  must  be  the  right  amount  of  compliance.  15 
 But  what  percentage  of  people  with  16 
 disabilities  can  access  what  reasonable  market  basket  17 
 of  services  in  the  world  of  telecommunications  given  18 
 the  combination  of  mainstream  technologies  and  19 
 assistive  technologies?  20 
 Are  we  actually  showing  an  improvement  in  21 
 peoples  live  and  abilities  to  communicate  in  this  22 
 information  age?  So  if  people  dont  know  about  the  23 
 services  and  features  and  products  that  are  24 
 accessible,  its  just  as  if  they  were  never  made  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 available  at  all.  1 
 If  we  let  ourselves  live  at  the  abstract  2 
 level  of  oh  yeah,  its  in  there  somewhere,  we  havent  3 
 really  performed  the  public  service  that  I  think  we  4 
 want  to  perform.  5 
 It  would  be  great  if  the  only  people  who  6 
 lacked  information  were  the  consumers.  But  in  point  7 
 of  fact,  those  of  us  who  have  worked  with  industry  8 
 over  the  years  recognize  that  industry  has  its  own,  9 
 you  know,  I  don't  know  what  I  don't  know  to  channel  10 
 the  Secretary  of  Defense.  11 
 By  the  way,  hes  still  Secretary  of  Defense.  12 
 I  havent  checked  the  news  this  morning.  But  industry  13 
 very  often  doesn't  know  what  it  doesn't  know  about  14 
 accessibility.  15 
 And  they  recognize  that,  and  they  are  16 
 willing  to  learn.  But,  again,  those  of  us  who  have  17 
 worked  with  industry  over  the  years,  find  the  irony  18 
 that  just  when  weve  managed  to  train  up  the  right  19 
 staffer,  in  the  right  job,  in  the  right  company,  20 
 theres  some  turn,  theres  some  re-  engineering,  a  re-  21 
 org.  22 
 Or  that  person  retires  or  finds,  imagine  it,  23 
 a  better  job  than  working  on  accessibility  within  that  24 
 company.  And  so  we  begin  the  process  all  over  again.  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 So  there  is  an  organizational  ignorance,  or  a  lack  of  1 
 organizational  memory  in  large  mainstream  companies  2 
 that  occurs.  3 
 And  we  see  it  going  on  now  with,  you  know,  4 
 large  scale  retirements.  We  have  lost  many  of  our  5 
 accessibility  champions  and  technology  experts  within  6 
 mainstream  companies.  7 
 So  thats  an  issue  that  we  have  to  resolve  8 
 somehow,  not  by  locking  people  into  their  jobs,  but  9 
 figuring  out  some  way  to  make  sure  that  information  10 
 reaches  the  right  people  in  industry  at  the  right  11 
 moment.  12 
 Policy  makers  also  have  their  own  areas  of  13 
 ignorance.  And  I  will  leave  that  sentence  without  any  14 
 implications.  And  again,  to  focus  on  outcomes,  for  a  15 
 political  environment  that  focuses  so  much  on  market  16 
 realities,  this  is  an  area  where  I  think  it  is  highly  17 
 justified.  18 
 But  its  an  area  where  ignorance  is  endemic.  19 
 What  do  we  know  about  TTY  users  as  a  market?  What  do  20 
 we  know  about  relay  users  as  a  market?  What  do  we  21 
 know  about  screen-  reader  users  as  a  market?  22 
 Both  the  current  users  and  the  potential  23 
 users,  we  hardly  know  anything  about  them.  We  wind  up  24 
 using  anecdotal  experience,  oh  so  and  so  now  has  a  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 Blackberry,  and  theyre  not  using  their  TTY  anymore.  1 
 I  guarantee  that  thats  true.  What  2 
 percentage  of  the  adoption  curve,  if  you  think  of  the  3 
 innovators  and  early  adopters,  what  percentage  have  4 
 already  moved  and  migrated  away  from  some  of  the  5 
 legacy  equipment  and  into  two-  way  text,  and  text  over  6 
 IP,  and  what  have  you?  7 
 And  what  percentage  have  been  left  behind,  8 
 and  maybe  left  behind  if  we  dont  take  some  concerted  9 
 social  policy  action?  Its  almost  enough  to  get  you  10 
 to  believe  in  the  existence  of  a  digital  divide,  if  we  11 
 didn't  know  better.  12 
 Id  like  to  sort  of  end  this  dreary  13 
 exposition  with  a  little  bit  of  hope.  We  do  see  14 
 companies  that  are  actively  reaching  out  to  understand  15 
 what  consumers  needs  are,  and  to  get  beyond  just  the  16 
 anecdote  level,  or  the  assumption  level,  actually  17 
 doing  primary  market  research  on  customers  with  18 
 disabilities,  fantastic  stuff.  19 
 We  find  advocacy  organizations  doing  the  20 
 same  kind  of  work,  asking  their  members  what  you  use,  21 
 why  did  you  change  what  you  used  to  us?  And  as  a  22 
 final  point,  I  want  to  emphasize  the  initiative  taken  23 
 on  by  the  Alliance  for  Telecom  Industry  Solutions,  24 
 which  is  an  industry  body  that  coordinates  information  25 
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 for  the  sake  of  manufacturers  and  telecom  carriers,  1 
 etcetera.  2 
 It  is  now  moving  towards  the  establishment  3 
 of  a  telecom  accessibility  council  based  on  its  4 
 experience  with  stake  holders  from  the  disability  5 
 communities,  researchers,  policy  makers,  and  people  in  6 
 industry.  7 
 This  is  a  new  initiative.  And  we  have  8 
 already  talked  to  most  of  the  industry  stake  holders  9 
 in  the  room.  If  youd  like  to  follow  up  on  it,  get  10 
 information,  you  can  find  information  about  it  on  the  11 
 website  that  we  distributed  about,  or  at  atis.  org.  12 
 Thank  you.  13 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you  very  much.  Thanks  14 
 Jim.  Our  final  speaker  on  the  panel  before  we  open  it  15 
 up  is  Nate  Wilcox.  Nate  is  the  Systems  Administrative  16 
 for  the  Vermont  Enhanced  911  Program.  17 
 The  program  oversees  a  multiple  public  18 
 safety  answering  point,  PSAP,  system.  And  it  was  19 
 recently  used  as  a  benchmark  system  for  the  report  20 
 card  to  the  nation  on  911  that  was  presented  to  21 
 congress  a  couple  of  years  ago.  22 
 Nate  is  the  Chair  of  the  Voice  Over  IP  23 
 Packet  Technical  Committee  of  NENA,  which  is  the  24 
 National  Emergency  Number  Association.  And  he  is  25 
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 recognized  as  an  industry  leader  for  Voice  Over  IP  1 
 technical  advancements  within  the  911  community.  2 
 And  I  have  met  Nate  at  multiple  Voice  Over  3 
 IP  meetings.  And  I  know  that  he  has  been  working,  and  4 
 his  group  has  been  working,  very,  very  hard.  And  Im  5 
 glad  Nate  that  you  are  here  as  a  911  person,  because  6 
 you  have  already  hear  multiple  people  talk  about  the  7 
 importance  of  E911,  911,  not  just  in  and  of  itself,  8 
 but  particularly  for  people  with  disabilities.  So,  9 
 Nate?  10 
 MR.  WILCOX:  Thank  you  Bob.  And  I  am  11 
 absolutely  glad  to  be  here.  I  was  not  able  to  make  12 
 the  E911  summit  we  had  last  time  here  at  the  FCC.  My  13 
 boss  was  here,  Evelyn  Bailey.  14 
 And  she  generally  talks  within  that  arena.  15 
 However,  I  am  here  to  talk  about  good  things  within  16 
 911.  I  have  good  news.  Because  all  I  have  heard  so  17 
 far  this  morning  really  is  that  theres  a  true  18 
 barrier,  right,  to  911,  and  in  particular  for  the  19 
 disabled  community.  20 
 So  I  have  good  news.  I  am  here  to  talk  on  21 
 behalf  of  the  small  and  overworked  group  of  dedicated  22 
 911  individuals  within  the  911  community  that  are  23 
 working  to  enable  IP  connectivity  within  the  911  PSAP  24 
 nationwide.  25 
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 Not  only  nationwide,  but  on  a  global  effort.  1 
 And  we  are  finally  seeing  the  light  of  day  from  those  2 
 efforts  that  we  have  been  undertaking  for  about  three  3 
 years  now,  because  of  the  adoption  of  consumer  VoIP  4 
 services  and  the  recognition  now.  5 
 Thats  not  to  say  that  were  not  still  in  6 
 the  requirements  of  analysis  stage.  So  clearly  whats  7 
 brought  out  from  you  folks  will  be  brought  back  into  8 
 the  design  of  the  new  911,  the  future  911,  which  will  9 
 be  wholly  VoIP  enabled,  is  the  thought  process.  10 
 So  what  needs  to  happen  --  its  a  paradigm  11 
 shift  --  we  have  to  think  differently  within  911.  And  12 
 along  those  lines,  Im  going  to  talk  about  challenges  13 
 that  we  are  facing,  and  some  of  the  solutions  that  we  14 
 envision  to  those  challenges.  15 
 A  lot  of  those  challenges  that  were  facing  16 
 in  911  are  challenges  that  are  similar  across  the  17 
 board  for  911.  They  impact  everybody,  regardless  of  18 
 who  uses  the  VoIP  phone  or  that  mode  of  connectivity,  19 
 it  impacts  everybody.  20 
 Im  also  going  to  provide  some  solutions.  21 
 So  I  was  a  little  confused  as  to  what  lies  truly  22 
 beyond.  It  seems  like  911  always  winds  up  on  the  23 
 challenges  side  of  it.  24 
 But  really  theres  some  opportunities  there  25 
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 as  well  that  we  can  certainly  provide.  I  will  talk  1 
 about  nomadic  user,  nomadic  VoIP  users.  I  will  talk  2 
 about  TTYs  and  some  of  the  challenges  there.  3 
 I  will  talk  about  the  lack  of  a  standardized  4 
 approach  to  IP  communication  enhancements.  And  I  will  5 
 hit  on  QoS  on  an  end-  to-  end  IP  communication  system  6 
 where  911  is  at  one  end  and  the  consumer  VoIP  user  is  7 
 at  the  other  end.  8 
 And  then  I  will  talk  a  little  bit  about  9 
 whats  going  on  right  now  within  this  arena.  So  10 
 nomadic  VoIP  users,  these  are  the  guys  that  take  the  11 
 8x8  telephone  adapter  to  their  hotel  room,  plug  it  in,  12 
 and  they  get  phone  service,  okay.  13 
 Within  911  we  count  on  the  user  without  14 
 considering  wireless  or  sedative  callers  to  be  15 
 stationary.  They  are  at  the  end  of  a  pair  of  wires,  16 
 and  we  always  know  where  they  are.  17 
 And  they  will  always  have  the  same  address.  18 
 The  process  for  validating  that  location  information  19 
 takes  about  24  hours  with  the  phone  company.  So  when  20 
 I  get  my  new  phone  service,  24  hours  later,  my  21 
 location  information  is  validated  through  a  process.  22 
 The  problem  with  VoIP  is  now  I  can  take  my  23 
 telephone  adapter,  plug  it  into  an  Ethernet  connection  24 
 anywhere,  and  have  a  location  information.  But  I  have  25 
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 to  go  through  the  24  hour  period  of  having  that  1 
 location  information  validated,  which  by  the  way  2 
 hasnt  been  enabled  for  Voice  Over  IP  yet.  3 
 And  one  of  the  serious  benefits  of  VoIP  is  4 
 to  be  able  to  take  that  telephone  adapter  with  me  back  5 
 and  forth  to  the  office,  have  the  same  number  at  the  6 
 office  as  I  do  at  home.  7 
 So,  Im  clearly  breaking  the  24  hour  rule  8 
 right  away.  So  what  we  have  to  do  is  we  have  to  9 
 create  a  paradigm  shift  for  broadband  service  10 
 providers,  those  folks  that  provide  the  IP  services  to  11 
 be  able  to  validate  that  location  information  in  12 
 advance  before  I  ever  plug  in  my  telephone  adapter.  13 
 Thats  a  paradigm  shift  that  needs  to  occur  14 
 for  nomadic  VoIP  users.  TTYs,  I  think  we  all  are  15 
 pretty  familiar  on  some  of  the  negative  impacts  on  16 
 TTYs  when  you  start  to  use  them  over  Voice  Over  IP  or  17 
 IP-  enabled  circuits.  18 
 The  reality  is  that  the  total  character  19 
 error  rate  for  TTYs  could  create  a  situation  in  which  20 
 dropped  packets,  which  is  normal  within  an  IP  network,  21 
 you  know,  packet  loss  is  normal.  22 
 IP  communications  on  the  whole  are  designed  23 
 to  preserve  bandwidth.  And  part  of  that  preservation  24 
 is  packet  loss.  So  those  dropped  packets  can  actually  25 
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 drop  control  characters.  1 
 We  all  know  that.  They  can  actually  drop  2 
 TTY  conversations  all  together,  immediately.  Its  not  3 
 a  great  situation  to  be  in  for  the  911  call  takers,  4 
 certainly  not  a  great  situation  to  be  in  for  the  TTY  5 
 user  who  is  relying  on  these  communications  to  6 
 continue.  7 
 So  the  paradigm  shift  for  TTYs,  we  need  to  8 
 ensure  a  compressionless  as  possible  compressionless  9 
 codec  thats  used  for  911.  And  I  have  G.  711  up  there  10 
 as  an  example.  11 
 It  seems  to  work  well  for  TTYs.  There  are  12 
 others  out  there  as  well.  We  need  to  promote  13 
 technologies  that  improve  through-  put,  and  use  of  14 
 alternate  communication  methods  as  well  to  provide  15 
 TTYs.  16 
 Im  talking  about  SMS,  two-  way  paging,  real-  17 
 time  text  messaging,  those  types  of  communications.  18 
 So  thats  a  shift  that  needs  to  occur  within  that  19 
 arena.  20 
 The  lack  of  a  standardized  approach,  I  21 
 recognize  the  fact  that  instant  messaging,  chat  22 
 sessions,  and  other  modes  of  communication  are  23 
 catching  on  more  and  more  within  the  disabled  24 
 community.  25 
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 And  clearly  the  need  has  to  be  that  that  1 
 should  be  supported  at  the  PSAP  site,  at  the  Public  2 
 Safety  Answering  Point.  It  is  unofficially  supported  3 
 now.  4 
 If  you  walk  into  a  PSAP,  nine  times  out  of  5 
 ten,  a  lot  of  those  call  takers  are  already  using  6 
 chats  and  instant  messaging  for  their  coworkers  and  7 
 family.  8 
 So,  unofficially,  it  is  supported.  9 
 Officially  it  needs  to  be  adopted,  right?  Full  10 
 streaming  video  isnt  supported,  and  simply  because  IP  11 
 connectivity  within  PSAP  is  not  inherent.  12 
 So  we  need  to  create  a  platform  that  calls  13 
 for  a  standardized  approach  to  all  these  technologies.  14 
 And  we  need  to  migrate  this  capability  not  only  to  the  15 
 911  PSAP,  but  beyond  to  the  emergency  responders  as  16 
 well,  so  they  can  participate  in  any  of  this  17 
 information  thats  coming  into  the  PSAP  environment.  18 
 Quality  of  service,  Im  not  going  to  go  over  19 
 that  too  much.  Clearly  background  noises  and  other  20 
 elements  associated  with  Voice  Over  IP  can  create  21 
 problems  for  911  calls.  22 
 So,  in  that  regard,  the  paradigm  shift  is  to  23 
 provide  and  support  better  technologies  to  support  24 
 that.  So  whats  being  done?  And  Ive  got  maybe  ten  25 
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 seconds  left  here.  1 
 The  National  Emergency  Number  Association  2 
 has  been  working,  as  I  mentioned,  through  both  the  3 
 technical  and  operation  side  of  the  house  these  4 
 issues.  5 
 We  have  several  folks  involved  within  the  6 
 process,  including  folks  from  within  the  ITF  and  other  7 
 organizations  similar  to  that.  Our  plan  is  to  gain  8 
 ANSI  accreditation  for  the  standards  that  come  out  of  9 
 that  effort.  10 
 And,  like  I  said,  we  are  at  the  requirements  11 
 analysis  phase.  So  there  is  plenty  of  opportunity  for  12 
 more  input  there.  We  are  looking  at  an  immediate  13 
 solution  for  Voice  Over  IP  which  will  not  provide  14 
 nomadic  or  mobile  support  to  be  available  this  month.  15 
 In  fact,  the  standard  is  written.  An  16 
 analogous  solution  for  current  911  processes,  17 
 including  the  ability  to  locate  nomadic  callers  will  18 
 be  done  by  the  end  of  they  year.  19 
 But  the  real  cool  product,  which  will  bring  20 
 IP  into  the  PSAP,  which  is  the  native  end-  to-  end  VoIP  21 
 with  ongoing  support  for  communications  at  all  levels  22 
 will  begin  later  this  year  to  be  completed,  we  hope,  23 
 by  mid  year,  next  year.  Thanks.  24 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you  Nate.  That  actually  25 
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 is  good  news,  I  mean  some  optimism.  And  I  think  some  1 
 of  this  came  out  of  the  meeting  we  had  about  six  weeks  2 
 ago  here  on  the  E911.  3 
 So  Im  hoping  that  similar  progress  can  come  4 
 out  of  todays  meeting.  That  would  be  terrific.  5 
 Again,  theres  two  microphones,  plus  a  roving  6 
 microphone  for  people  who  have  questions.  7 
 Let  me  just  start  off.  I  thought  Jim  made  a  8 
 really  important  point  that  if  you  have  to  retrofit  9 
 capabilities  it  can  be  very  expensive,  very  difficult,  10 
 a  stranded  investment,  peoples  equipment  wont  work.  11 
 On  the  other  hand,  since  in  an  IP  world  we  12 
 are  largely  working  in  a  world  of  software  where  the  13 
 incremental  costs  of  designing  functionality  in  at  the  14 
 beginning  are  very  low,  that,  you  know,  the  goal  here  15 
 is,  you  know,  identify  what  the  requirements  are,  16 
 similar  to  what  Nates  been  talking  about  in  the  E911  17 
 world.  18 
 Identify  the  requirements  at  the  very  19 
 beginning,  design  them  in  from  the  beginning.  If  you  20 
 design  them  in  from  the  beginning  not  only  are  they  21 
 there,  the  cost  of  doing  it  is  greatly  reduced.  22 
 So  one  of  the  questions  is  how  do  we  begin,  23 
 first  of  all,  how  are  we  doing  on  that  part  of  the  24 
 process  in  terms  of  designing  in  capabilities  for  25 
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 disabilities  access  particularly  in  Voice  Over  IP  but  1 
 other  IP-  enabled  services?  2 
 And  what  suggestions  do  you  have  to  identify  3 
 those  requirements  and  work  with  the  vendors,  the  4 
 equipment  designers,  the  software  designers?  Jim,  why  5 
 dont  you  start  off?  6 
 And  then,  for  example,  Barry  has  already  7 
 designed  some  things  in  it.  So  maybe  Barry  wants  to.  8 
 MR.  TOBIAS:  So  you  just  gave  me  another  9 
 seven  minutes,  is  that  right?  10 
 DR.  PEPPER:  No.  11 
 MR.  TOBIAS:  Well,  again,  I  would  want  to  12 
 emphasize  the  fact  that  the  purely  technological  13 
 issues  are  either  already  solved,  or  real  easy  to  14 
 solve,  purely  technological.  15 
 Let  me  go  through,  since  we  havent  --  and  16 
 Ill  just  take  a  minute  to  do  this.  Since  we  havent  17 
 heard  about  visual  impairment  and  blindness  barriers  18 
 to  show  how  the  marginal  implementation  points  of  19 
 these  products  and  services  can  provide  unnecessary  20 
 accessibility  barriers.  21 
 In  order  to  sign  up  for  a  very  popular  IP  22 
 service  you  have  to  go  to  a  website  and,  as  is  very  23 
 common  now,  you  have  to  be  able  to  transcribe  some  24 
 numbers  from  a  graphic  into  a  text  box.  25 
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 So  the  task  is  youve  got  a  graphic  with  1 
 some  kind  of  hard  to  read  numbers.  And  they  do  this  2 
 to  prevent  web  robots  from  registering  for  the  3 
 service.  4 
 So  its  not  actual  text,  its  an  image,  5 
 okay?  And  its  a  great  security  technique,  but  its  6 
 completely  inaccessible  to  people  who  use  screen-  7 
 readers.  8 
 And  this  particular  implementation  would  be  9 
 very  hard  for  someone  who  is  low  vision  to  perform  as  10 
 well.  Then  when  you  can  actually  register  for  the  11 
 service,  when  you  download  the  common  client,  and  I  12 
 wont  be  giving  out  any  information  if  I  tell  you  that  13 
 the  name  of  this  client  application  includes  the  14 
 letter  X,  because  everything  includes  the  letter  X.  15 
 It  is  constructed  in  software  out  of  one  16 
 single  control.  So  instead  of  using  typical  software  17 
 development  practices  of,  you  know,  using,  lets  say  18 
 in  Microsoft,  you  pull  a  text  box  control  in  there  and  19 
 thats  what  the  person  is  supposed  to  type  in.  20 
 This  is  one  completely  custom  control,  21 
 completely  inaccessible  to  screen-  readers.  Also  very  22 
 poor  performance  for  someone  who  is  low  vision  and  23 
 using  magnification.  24 
 Keyboard  access  to  this  particular  25 
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 application  is  very  poor.  The  tab  key  does  nothing.  1 
 Actually  if  you  tab  the  right  number  of  times  and  then  2 
 use  the  arrow  keys  you  can,  in  fact,  control  the  3 
 volume  of  the  speaker  and  the  volume  of  the  4 
 microphone.  5 
 But  theres  no  way  that  you  would  know  that  6 
 youre  doing  that.  So  these  are  entirely  avoidable  7 
 accessibility  barriers  that  are  not  essential  to  the  8 
 IP  network.  9 
 So,  again,  its  the  information  issue.  Now,  10 
 obviously  there  are  probably  dozens  of  screen-  reader  11 
 accessible  Voice  Over  IP  residential  type  clients.  12 
 But  how  does  the  user  find  out  about  them?  13 
 And  if  the  user  is  an  employee,  how  does  the  14 
 user  go  to  the  IT  network  management  security  person  15 
 and  get  permission  to  download  that  one-  of-  a-  kind  16 
 accessible  Voice  Over  IP  client?  17 
 So  thats  the  barrier  more  than  the  18 
 standards  and  the  pure  technology.  19 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Barry  did  you  want  to?  20 
 MR.  ANDREWS:  I  think  I  can  maybe  make  two  21 
 points  on  that.  The  first  is  that  products  such  as  22 
 Packet  8  are  software  based  running  on,  in  our  case,  23 
 Lenox  servers.  24 
 We  designed  it  from  the  start  for  ease  of  25 
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 use,  but  also  to  be  extensible  and  really  a  platform  1 
 to  make  future  enhancements  easy  and  simple  to  deploy.  2 
 The  current  Packet  8  is  a  good  example.  3 
 We  started  first  with  the  audio  adapter.  We  4 
 have  added  video  and  things  like  text,  mobile  clients,  5 
 theres  a  semiconductor  companies  that  are  working  on,  6 
 for  example,  combined  GSM  and  WiFi  chip  sets  that  will  7 
 go  into  portable  both  traditional  mobile  phones  as  8 
 well  as  mobile  VoIP  phones.  9 
 The  second  point  I  want  to  make  is  that  I  10 
 think  awareness  is  key,  especially  for  small  companies  11 
 like  ours.  And  I  think  thats  where  summits  like  this  12 
 really  help  us  understand  the  issues.  13 
 Once  we  understand  the  issues,  we  can  define  14 
 the  problem.  And  as  a  technologist,  once  that  is  15 
 done,  once  we  have  a  well-  defined  problem,  it  is  very  16 
 easy  to  come  up  with  a  solution,  especially  when  it  is  17 
 IP  based.  18 
 Thats  the  easy  part.  Having  everyone  agree  19 
 on  that  solution,  thats  the  tough  part.  And  thats  20 
 where  standards  bodies  such  as  the  ITU,  IETF,  21 
 etcetera,  are  I  think  doing  a  very  good  job.  22 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you,  Barry.  Why  dont  we  23 
 open  it  up  for  questions?  24 
 MR.  CLARK:  Hi,  my  name  is  Drew  Clark  with  25 
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 National  Journals  Technology  Daily.  I  believe  I  have  1 
 a  bit  of  a  technical  or  informational  question  that  I  2 
 just  dont  understand.  3 
 Obviously  TTY  technology  was  very  important  4 
 in  the  old  world,  the  circuit  switch  world,  in  getting  5 
 text  through  a  traditional  phone  line.  But  it  seems  6 
 to  me  now  that  IP  connections,  you  know,  offer  text  7 
 very  readily.  8 
 And  I  believe  there  was  a  comment  that  text  9 
 over  IP  drops  characters  when  you  are  trying  to  use  10 
 TTY  over  IP  type  services.  Im  not  quite  sure  why  11 
 were  not  just  sort  of  immediately  or  dramatically  12 
 moving  in  the  direction  of  IP  based  services  for  13 
 people  who  want  to  have  text  in  your  conversations,  14 
 just  like  an  email  or  instant  message,  or  any  of  those  15 
 feeds  that  you  get  over  an  IP  connection.  16 
 And  so  maybe  Im  just  a  little  confused  as  17 
 to  why  TTY  is  essential  going  forward  in  the  IP  world  18 
 as  opposed  to  simply  having  the  text  thats  obviously  19 
 and  immediately  available  over  an  IP  connection.  20 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Claude?  21 
 PARTICIPANT:  Its  a  very  complex  question.  22 
 But  in  my  response  you  have  to  remember  that  for  the  23 
 last  40  years  we  have  been  using  TTYs,  and  we  have  24 
 been  asking  businesses  to  buy  TTYs  so  that  we  could  25 
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 communicate  with  them.  1 
 And  then  we  had  the  relay  service  arise  in  2 
 the  70s  and  80s,  text  relay,  so  that  businesses  no  3 
 longer  had  to  have  TTYs,  they  could  call  the  relay  4 
 service  to  contact  us.  5 
 Whether  it  be  a  doctor  or  a  hospital,  anyone  6 
 in  the  public  world  could  contact  us  via  the  relay  7 
 service.  But  then  again,  you  have  to  remember  access  8 
 back  then  was  only  through  TTYs.  9 
 Today  its  true  that  the  world  is  changing  10 
 and  we  have  access  through  all  different  sorts  of  11 
 technologies,  but,  again,  it  takes  time  for  us  as  12 
 consumers  to  shift  from  TTY  or  to  not  use  TTYs  at  all.  13 
 It  really  depends  on  the  efforts  of  the  14 
 business  community  to  support  us  in  the  sue  of  other  15 
 technologies.  Migration  issues  need  to  be  discussed  16 
 more.  How  does  this  happen,  how  can  we  make  it  happen  17 
 in  the  quickest  way  psychiatry.  18 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you,  any  other  comments?  19 
 PARTICIPANT:  I  think  this  is  really  20 
 important.  An  I  think  it  might  be  worthwhile  for  21 
 companies  to  have  this  discussion  because  in  the  long  22 
 run  it  might  be  very  cost-  effective  if  they  can  do  23 
 some  sort  of  socially  responsible  thing  to  help  people  24 
 migrate,  assuming  that  they  want  to.  25 
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 But  I  think  this  discussion  really  needs  to  1 
 happen.  2 
 DR.  PEPPER:  So  its  a  migration  question  as  3 
 much  as  anything  else?  4 
 PARTICIPANT:  Yes.  5 
 DR.  PEPPER:  A  question  back  here.  6 
 MS.  KELLY-  FRYE:  Well  thank  you  very  much  7 
 for  the  seg-  way.  My  name  is  Brenda  Kelly-  Frye.  And  8 
 Im  the  Director  of  the  Maryland  relay.  And  I  also  9 
 wear  another  hat,  and  I  am  the  Chairperson  of  the  10 
 Telecommunications  Equipment  Distribution  Program  11 
 Association,  the  acronym  is  TEDPA.  12 
 We  are  state  administrators  who  distribute  13 
 free  equipment  to  individuals  who  are  indigent  and  14 
 cannot  afford  to  purchase  their  own  equipment.  I  15 
 established  the  program  in  Maryland  approximately  six  16 
 years  ago  because  I,  as  an  interpreter,  had  noticed  17 
 that  several  people  were  not  able  to  access  911  18 
 services  because  they  did  not  have  a  telephone  in  19 
 their  house.  20 
 The  reason  they  didn't  have  a  telephone  in  21 
 their  house  was  because  they  needed  an  adjunct  device  22 
 called  a  TTY  in  which  to  hook  up  to  their  standard  23 
 phone  to  make  a  phone  call.  24 
 Their  lives  were  in  danger.  They  were  not  25 
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 able  to  call  911,  they  were  not  able  to  call  their  1 
 pharmacy  to  renew  their  prescriptions.  They  were  not  2 
 able  to  call  their  doctor  or  the  police  or  fire  3 
 department.  4 
 With  the  movement  now  into  the  VoIP  arena  5 
 those  people  are  still  going  to  be  left  behind.  Weve  6 
 got  this  huge  digital  divide  thats  going  to  be  7 
 growing,  and  growing,  and  growing.  8 
 Right  now,  those  people  who  are  indigent  are  9 
 able  to  take  advantage  of  such  a  program  through  the  10 
 telephone  companies  called  Telelife  Program,  which  11 
 gives  them  reduced  telephone  rates,  plus  reduced  phone  12 
 calling  capacity,  you  know,  they  have  like  30  free  13 
 phone  calls  a  month.  14 
 How  are  we  going  to  bring  these  people,  who  15 
 now  cant  afford  to  purchase  a  TTY  themselves,  cant  16 
 purchase  a  computer  that  gives  them  access  to  IP,  that  17 
 gives  them  access  to  video  relay  service,  and  also  18 
 provide  them  with  some  kind  of  a  connectivity  with  a  19 
 high  speed?  20 
 How  are  we  going  to  be  able  to  do  that?  Are  21 
 we  going  to  be  able  to  apply  such  a  program  such  as  22 
 Telelife  to  this  for  high  speed  connectivity  so  that  23 
 they  can  have  equal  access  to  the  wonderful  features  24 
 of  IP  that  we  all  are  able  to  enjoy  because  we  all  25 
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 have  good  jobs?  1 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Good  question.  Thank  you.  2 
 PARTICIPANT:  In  line  with  this  line  of  3 
 discussion,  I  just  wanted  to  point  out  that  the  FCC  4 
 has  granted  a  waiver.  I  think  they  have  four  years  5 
 left  for  the  IP  text  relay  and  the  VRS  not  to  have  to  6 
 handle  911  calls  because  of  the  same  kinds  of  problems  7 
 that  Nate  was  talking  about,  locating  people,  and  8 
 validating,  and  so  on.  9 
 If  were  going  to  have  a  lot  of  migration  in  10 
 the  next  four  or  five  years  this  could  become  a  11 
 serious  problem.  Some  of  my  students  at  Galludet  have  12 
 abandoned  --  the  people  dont  have  a  lot  of  money  and  13 
 they  are  early  adopters.  14 
 And  they  are  abandoning  phone  lines,  dont  15 
 have  a  way  to  get  access  to  911  at  all.  So  I  think  16 
 thats  a  policy  issue  that  needs  to  be  looked  at  again  17 
 perhaps.  18 
 And  the  relay  companies  need  to  be  19 
 encouraged  to  work  perhaps  with  NENA  and  others  to  fix  20 
 the  problem  for  that  area.  Bruce  I  wanted  to  ask  you,  21 
 you  had  mentioned  about  text  in  your  product.  22 
 And  I  wonder  if  you  have  it  in  the  current  23 
 generation,  or  is  that  in  the  planning  stages?  24 
 Because  text  we  think  of  as  something  that  has  kind  of  25 
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 a  low  overhead  medium  when  you  have  multimedia.  1 
 And  you  have  some  familiarity  with  the  deaf  2 
 community,  so  Im  going  to  embarrass  you  with  that  3 
 comment.  4 
 MR.  ANDREWS:  I  think  the  question  was  for  5 
 me?  6 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Yes,  Barry.  7 
 MR.  ANDREWS:  We  have  had  a  previous  line  of  8 
 products  that  worked  over  with  the  H.  324  standard,  9 
 which  is  basically  modem  based,  trying  to  send  10 
 everything  over  a  modem  connection.  11 
 And  that  did  have  an  accessory  port  for  12 
 text.  And  it  is  something  that  we  are  aware  of.  I  13 
 think  in  our  case,  we  are  a  small  company.  We  have  14 
 been  fortunate,  I  think,  to  have  employees  that  cared  15 
 about  these  issues.  16 
 And  so  it  is  something  that  we  are  working  17 
 on.  18 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you.  Another  question?  19 
 MS.  STEWART:  Hi,  I  am  Pam  Stewart  from  20 
 Maryland.  I  have  a  question,  I  guess  it  is  mostly  21 
 directed  to  everybody,  but  Nate  in  particular.  In  22 
 your  one  paradigm  you  said  that,  you  know,  we  have  to  23 
 sort  of  shift  towards  things  like  SMS  and  two-  way  24 
 paging,  and  that  kind  of  stuff.  25 
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 And  I  know  that  I  personally  am  terrified  1 
 that  I  know  so  many  of  the  deaf  people  that  I  know  2 
 that  have  given  up  their  telephone  lines.  And  they  3 
 are  depending  solely  on  two-  way  pagers.  4 
 Now,  if  that  person  has  gone  off  the  car  5 
 into  a  ditch,  I  know  very  many  times  I  have  sent  a  6 
 two-  way  page  and  it  doesn't  get  to  somebody  else  for  7 
 three  hours,  or  maybe  the  next  day  if  everything  is  8 
 overload.  9 
 And  it  terrifies  me  that  a  lot  of  the  10 
 companies  that  have  the  two-  way  pagers  are  encouraging  11 
 people  saying,  you  know,  you  can  call  directly  to  911  12 
 on  this,  without  any  of  those  warnings.  13 
 And  I  think  we  are  setting  up  for  some  14 
 really  bad  problems  here.  15 
 MR.  WILCOX:  First,  we  do  recognize  as  part  16 
 of  the  requirements  process  some  of  the  limitations  of  17 
 the  new  paradigms  of  communication,  two-  way  paging  18 
 being  one  of  them.  19 
 We  havent  set  in  stone  an  adoption  of  how  e  20 
 are  going  to  handle  those  yet.  And  its  exactly  those  21 
 issues  that  are  creating  some  of  the  delay  in  quicker  22 
 adoption.  23 
 We  do  have  a  fairly  good  cross-  section  of  24 
 folks  working  on  that  issue  as  well.  So  I  guess  the  25 
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 answer  I  have  for  you  is  right  now  I  dont  have  an  1 
 answer.  2 
 We  dont  have  a  way  of  accepting  that  type  3 
 of  messaging.  We  are  looking  at  the  limitations  and  4 
 developing  the  requirements  based  on  those  limitations  5 
 and  hopefully  pushing  the  manufacturers  and  the  6 
 support  companies  for  those  devices  to  be  able  to  7 
 recognize  that  they  will  be  used  for  emergency  8 
 signaling,  and  to  improve  the  ability  of  those  devices  9 
 in  that  regard.  So,  thank  you.  10 
 MS.  STEWART:  Thank  you.  But,  like  what  Jim  11 
 said,  I  think  this  needs  to  be  stressed  too,  that  its  12 
 organizational  too.  And  I  think  it  is  incumbent  upon  13 
 these  companies  to  have  more  reasonable  advertising  14 
 and  dont  tell  people  that  this  is  going  to  get  you  to  15 
 a  911  center.  16 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you.  17 
 MR.  LUCAS:  Fred  Lucas,  FAL  Associates.  And  18 
 Im  also  the  Chairman  of  TIA  30.  Just  a  bit  of  19 
 information  kind  of  addressing  some  of  what  Nate  had  20 
 put  up  on  his  911  fly  as  far  as  TTY  over  IP  21 
 connections,  etcetera.  22 
 As  was  mentioned  in  the  first  panel  by  23 
 Gunnar  Hellstrom  and  Paul  Jones,  a  lot  of  work  is  24 
 taking  place  in  the  standards  area  on  that.  25 
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 Internationally,  as  was  pointed  out,  to  cover  all  1 
 forms  of  text  devices  in  the  ITU,  but  also  within  the  2 
 U.  S.  working  in  conjunction  with  the  ITU  group.  3 
 With  are  working  with  NTR  30  developing  a  4 
 standard  that  will  transport  the  Baudot  device  5 
 information  reliably,  reliable  transport  across  IP  6 
 connections,  where  you  do  have  packet  loss  and  lower  7 
 quality  of  service.  8 
 Right  now  we  are  scheduled  to  have  that  9 
 completed  in  August  of  this  year.  So  just  as  a  bit  of  10 
 information,  its  going  to  be  called  TIA  1001.  The  11 
 international  work  also  addresses  the  fact  that  there  12 
 is  known  packet  loss  in  the  network,  and  provide  13 
 reliable  transport  of  TTY  and  such  devices  over  the  14 
 network  where  you  are  going  between  PSTN  through  IP,  15 
 back  to  PSTN,  etcetera.  16 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thanks  Fred.  We  have  two  more  17 
 people,  unless  theres  anybody  else  that  wants  to  get  18 
 in  line.  We  will  take  these  as  our  two  questions  19 
 before  the  next  break.  20 
 MS.  MARVENEY:  Hi,  I  am  Dana  Marveney,  the  21 
 Director  of  the  National  Center  for  Hearing  Assistive  22 
 Technology  for  hard-  of-  hearing  people.  The  one  thing  23 
 I  would  like  to  point  out  is  that  if  the  multimedia  24 
 conferencing  software  had  the  ability  to  work  with  the  25 
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 speech  recognition  software  often  available  on  many  1 
 user  computers  this  would  be  a  way  of  cutting  down  2 
 cost  because  it  might  not  be  necessary  to  use  relay  3 
 services.  4 
 And  so  I  would  really  like  to  encourage  5 
 everyone  to  think  about  building  in  hooks  to  the  6 
 speech  recognition  modules  on  computers  because  I  7 
 think  that  would  be  a  very  good  way  of  providing  8 
 access.  9 
 Many  people  cannot  type  very  well.  So,  10 
 again,  I  think  this  would  be  something  to  explore.  11 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thats  great.  Thank  you.  Does  12 
 anybody  on  the  panel  have  any  insights  into  that,  or  13 
 have  a  sense  of  where  some  of  those,  you  know,  speech  14 
 recognition  program  are  in  terms  of  implementation?  15 
 No?  Well  then  maybe  thats  something  that  16 
 other  people  during  the  break  can  raise  or  talk  to  you  17 
 about.  18 
 MR.  DANIELS:  As  a  deaf  individual  I  will  be  19 
 using  the  interpreter.  My  name  is  Paul  Daniels,  I  am  20 
 representing  myself.  There  was  one  woman  who  made  a  21 
 very  good  point  about  if  youre  in  a  car  accident,  how  22 
 do  you  contact  911.  23 
 Is  there  any  way  we  could  include  maybe  GPS  24 
 systems?  I  know  many  of  the  new  cars  being  produced  25 
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 already  have  built-  in  GPS  systems.  It  seems  like  1 
 somehow  we  should  be  able  to  create  devices  where  a  2 
 signal  could  be  sent  straight  up  to  a  satellite,  3 
 whether  it  be  a  mobile  device,  or  my  computer,  or  4 
 whatever.  5 
 It  could  shoot  up  to  a  satellite  and  people  6 
 would  know  where  I  am,  regardless  of  how  hurt  I  have  7 
 become.  And  then  I  could  be  brought  to  the  correct  8 
 emergency  center  to  be  helped.  9 
 That  was  just  a  comment  I  wanted  to  add,  10 
 thank  you.  11 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you.  In  fact,  Nate  may  12 
 want  to  respond  to  that.  13 
 MR.  WILCOX:  Well,  the  good  news  is  that  14 
 thats  already  there.  For  wireless,  for  cellular  15 
 calls  the  process  to  enable  that  is  already  there.  In  16 
 fact,  about  20  percent  of  the  countrys  911  system  now  17 
 is  at  a  point  where  they  are  able  to  accept  the  geo  18 
 information  associated  with  a  cell  phone  that  dials  19 
 911.  20 
 As  long  as  the  device,  like  your  OnStar  or  21 
 your  ATF  system  in  your  car  uses  the  cellular  network  22 
 and  you  happen  to  be  in  a  location  where  the  20  23 
 percent  falls,  then  you  most  likely  will  get  located.  24 
 However,  other  technologies,  two-  way  pagers,  25 
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 things  of  that  nature,  they  are  not  there  currently.  1 
 So  those  are  some  of  the  things  we  have  to  look  at.  2 
 So  thank  you  very  much.  3 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Nates  making  another  really  4 
 good  point,  I  think,  which  is  something  that  came  out  5 
 at  the  E911  Solutions  Summit,  and  that  is  that  as  we  6 
 moved,  for  example,  to  location  based  mobile  systems,  7 
 the  capabilities  and  technologies  are  there.  8 
 A  real  issue  at  this  point  is  implementation  9 
 by  the  PSAPs  and  the  funding  problems  that  PSAPs  have  10 
 as  local  and  state  government  entities  having  funding  11 
 problems.  12 
 So  I  think  that  its  important  to  recognize  13 
 that.  And  if  we  believe,  you  know,  as  a  society  and  14 
 country  that  these  are  things  that  are  important  then  15 
 were  going  to  have  to  step  up  and  make  the  financial  16 
 commitment  to  converting  and  proving  opportunities  for  17 
 PSAPs  to  take  advantage  of  the  new  technologies.  18 
 I  think  we  have  time  for  about  an  eight  19 
 minute  break.  Then  we  will  move  into  the  next  panel.  20 
 Danes  folks  and  June  in  particular  have  really  kept  21 
 us  on  a  forced  march  through  a  lot  of  really  good  22 
 substance.  23 
 I  just  want  to  thank  the  panel  first,  and  24 
 the  questioners.  25 
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 (Whereupon,  the  above-  entitled  matter  went  1 
 off  the  record  at  11:  51  a.  m.  and  went  back  on  the  2 
 record  at  12:  02  p.  m.)  3 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Hello.  Could  we  try  to  sit  4 
 down  and  get  started?  We  are  competing  with  the  food  5 
 again,  but  I  think  if  our  panelists  could  come  up  and  6 
 be  seated.  7 
 Thank  you  very  much.  I  have  the  privilege  8 
 of  introducing  another  one  of  our  Commissioners,  9 
 Commissioner  Michael  Copps.  Commissioner  after  with  10 
 reconvene  here,  we  have  been  having  several  panels.  11 
 If  people  get  settled  I  appreciate  your  12 
 being  here.  Commissioner?  13 
 COMMISSIONER  COPPS:  Good  afternoon,  it  14 
 doesn't  bother  me  if  folks  are  still  eating  over  15 
 there.  Please  go  ahead  and  do  so.  Let  me  apologize  16 
 for  my  voice.  17 
 I  am  fighting  kind  of  a  bad  cold.  I  promise  18 
 not  to  get  too  close  to  infect  everybody.  But  I  am  19 
 pleased  to  see  you  all  here.  And  I  thank  you  for  the  20 
 opportunity  to  come  by  for  just  a  few  minutes.  21 
 More  importantly,  I  wanted  to  come  by  to  22 
 thank  you  for  sharing  your  time  and  your  talent  in  23 
 what  I  hope  has  been,  and  will  continue  to  be,  a  24 
 productive  dialogue,  productive  both  for  you  and  for  25 
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 the  Commission.  1 
 And  finally,  I  wanted  to  commend  Chairman  2 
 Powell  and  the  Consumer  and  Governmental  Affairs  3 
 Bureau  for  bring  us  together  today.  This  is  just  the  4 
 kind  of  outreach  I  like  to  see  this  Commission  of  ours  5 
 have  on  the  whole  range  of  technology  issues  that  6 
 confront  us.  7 
 Theres  noting  that  comes  close  to  getting  8 
 out  and  sharing  information  with  the  many  groups  that  9 
 are  so  much  affected  by  the  decisions  we  make  around  10 
 here.  11 
 Last  year  about  this  time  I  was  a  guest  over  12 
 at  Galludet  Universitys  celebration  of  the  15  th  13 
 Anniversary  of  the  deaf  President.  And  I  spent  some  14 
 time  with  the  President  of  that  institution,  King  15 
 Jordan,  and  attended  some  classes,  and  was  able  to  16 
 speak  with  some  of  the  students  and  professors.  17 
 And  it  was  a  terrific  day  on  a  beautiful  18 
 campus.  But  what  stays  with  me  most  about  that  visit  19 
 was  the  incredible  enthusiasm  that  people  there  had  20 
 for  all  the  new  technology  that  was  coming  there  way,  21 
 and  the  almost  seamless  way  that  many  of  them  seemed  22 
 to  be  incorporating  it  into  their  lives.  23 
 And  I  went  away  from  there  with  the  idea  24 
 that,  you  know  we  talk  so  much  about  the  early  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 adopters  in  silicone  valley  and  their  enthusiasm  and  1 
 all  that.  2 
 I  dont  think  they  have  anything  on  the  3 
 techno-  savvy  that  the  disabilities  community  has.  And  4 
 I  was  just  so  proud  to  see  that.  And  thats  why  5 
 todays  dialogue  is  so  important.  6 
 I  know  you  are  talking  about  VoIP.  Thats  7 
 not  just  a  hot  topic  around  the  halls  of  the  Federal  8 
 Communications  Commission,  but  I  think  its  going  to  9 
 be  really  a  vital  feature  of  our  communications  10 
 future.  11 
 And  I  think  it  may  end  up  being  truly  a  12 
 transformative  thing  if  we  get  it  done  right.  The  13 
 possibilities  are  so  great  for  customized  services  and  14 
 fusing  voice  and  data  and  video  onto  internet  based  15 
 networks.  16 
 But  there  are  a  lot  of  challenges  that  17 
 accompany  them.  Thats  what  we  are  trying  to  wrestle  18 
 with  here  at  the  FCC  right  now.  But  chief  among  them  19 
 is  making  sure  that  IP  services  like  this  are  20 
 accessible  to  everyone.  21 
 Its  the  right  thing  to  do.  And  it  is  also  22 
 the  legal  mandate  that  we  have.  When  congress  passed  23 
 the  Americans  With  Disabilities  Act,  more  than  13  24 
 years  ago,  it  directed  the  FCC  to  do  everything  we  25 
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 could  to  ensure  that  those  with  disabilities  have  1 
 access  to  functionally  equivalent  services  so  that  all  2 
 of  our  citizens  can  participate  fully  in  our  society.  3 
 So  thats  what  we  need  to  put  front  and  4 
 center.  Lets  be  certain  we  do  everything  we  can  to  5 
 ensure  that  we  live  up  to  the  mandate  of  functional  6 
 equivalency  as  IP  services  flood  the  communications  7 
 landscape.  8 
 I  know  that  term,  functional  equivalency,  is  9 
 so  bureaucratic,  and  legalistic,  and  antiseptic.  But  10 
 if  we  stop  and  think  about  it,  what  it  really  11 
 translates  into  is  equal  opportunity,  and  the  12 
 opportunity  to  lead  productive  lives,  and  to  13 
 communicate,  and  to  educate  yourself,  and  others,  and  14 
 to  have  a  good  job,  and  so  much,  much  more.  15 
 It  is  a  huge  challenge.  And  thats  a  16 
 challenge  that  we  have  to  both  meet  and  master.  And  17 
 weve  got  a  long  way  to  go  in  doing  it.  We  have  to  18 
 wrestle  with  some  hard  questions.  19 
 This  Commission  has  been  on  a  forward  march,  20 
 as  some  of  you  know,  to  re-  classify  the  21 
 telecommunication  services  under  our  jurisdiction,  to  22 
 re-  classify  many  of  them  as  information  services.  23 
 We  need  to  get  a  much  better  handle  on  what  24 
 that  means  for  persons  with  disabilities.  And  Im  not  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 convinced  that  it  bows  particularly  well  for  people  1 
 with  disabilities.  2 
 Frankly,  as  many  of  you  probably  know,  I  am  3 
 worried  that  this  re-  classification  could  cause  many  4 
 more  problems  than  it  resolves,  if  it  resolves  any.  5 
 We  also  have  to  build  on  the  TRS  options  we  have  today  6 
 that  already  involve  IP  platforms.  7 
 IP  relay  has  been  eligible  for  TRS  8 
 reimbursement  for  about  two  years  now.  So  you  have  9 
 been  ahead  of  the  curve  in  the  disabilities  community  10 
 in  coming  to  use  IP  services  to  communicate.  11 
 But  we  need  to  ask  now  how  broadband  12 
 deployment  impacts  IP  relay  use  and  what  more  we  can  13 
 do  to  ensure  that  the  disabilities  communities  have  14 
 access  to  the  bandwidth  they  need  to  use  this  internet  15 
 based  alternative  to  TTY.  16 
 We  also  are  overdue  for  getting  our  policy  17 
 on  VRS  compensation  right.  And  I  imagine  you  are  18 
 talking  about  that  today.  And  it  is  time  for  a  frank  19 
 discussion  of  the  benefits  of  making  it  a  required  20 
 form  of  TRS.  21 
 And  I  am  really  hopeful  that  the  Commission  22 
 can  get  this  teed  up  in  the  relatively  near  future.  23 
 So  theres  a  mountain  of  challenges  out  there.  But  it  24 
 is  through  dialogues  like  this  I  think  where  we  can  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 really  tackle  these  things  and  make  a  contribution.  1 
 So  my  advice  to  you  is  tackle  these  tough  2 
 issues,  figure  who  else  needs  to  be  a  part  of  this  3 
 dialogue,  reach  out  to  anybody  else  who  needs  to  be  a  4 
 part  of  this  dialogue,  and  see  if  we  cant  tackle  5 
 these  questions  together.  6 
 So  I  wont  detain  you  further  today.  But  I  7 
 just  did  want  to  come  by  and  welcome  you,  tell  you  how  8 
 appreciative  I  am  for  the  efforts  that  youre  making  9 
 to  help  us  shape  policy  here  at  the  Commission.  10 
 I  think  all  of  you  know,  I  hope  you  know,  11 
 that  my  door  is  always  open  to  you,  and  I  look  forward  12 
 to  working  with  you  on  all  of  these  challenges.  Thank  13 
 you  very  much,  and  good  luck.  14 
 DR.  PEPPER:  Thank  you  Commissioner  Copps.  15 
 Jeff  Carlisle,  my  co-  Director  of  the  IP  Working  Group  16 
 is  going  to  moderate  the  third  panel.  Jeff?  17 
 PANEL  THREE  18 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  Thank  you,  very  much  Bob.  19 
 This  panel  is  going  to  focus  on  the  regulatory  20 
 implications  of  what  we  have  been  talking  about.  And  21 
 it  is  really  designed  to  give  us  an  opportunity  to  22 
 talk  about  what  does  the  regulatory  environment  look  23 
 like  in  order  to  ensure  that  we  overcome  the  24 
 difficulties  posed  by  the  migration  to  IP  technologies  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 and  also  best  realize  the  opportunities  presented  by  1 
 those  technologies.  2 
 It  is  interesting  that  engineers  sometimes  3 
 make  very  good  attorneys,  largely  because  the  though  4 
 process  of  engineering  and  law  can  be  very  similar  in  5 
 terms  of  problem  solving.  6 
 Unfortunately,  I  think  all  to  often  when  we  7 
 are  designing  regulatory  regimes  we  sort  of  forget  8 
 that  when  you  are  going  through  an  engineering  process  9 
 you  define  the  problem,  you  define  the  solution,  you  10 
 see  if  the  solution  works  and  you  go  back  and  you  11 
 change  it  if  it  doesn't  so  you  can  reach  the  goal  of  12 
 actually  answering  the  question  you  started  from.  13 
 All  too  often  in  the  regulatory  space,  14 
 unfortunately,  you  end  up  defining  the  problem,  15 
 somebody  figures  out  okay,  well  well  just  regulate  it  16 
 this  way,  or  well  have  this  program.  17 
 And  then  by  the  time  you  get  around  to  18 
 figuring  out  whether  or  not  that  program  has  actually  19 
 worked,  or  whether  that  solution  has  actually  worked,  20 
 you  are  two  or  three  years  down  the  road.  21 
 And  if  its  not  working,  its  extremely  22 
 difficult  to  actually  change  it  to  make  it  work.  So,  23 
 getting  it  right  at  the  beginning  is  extremely  24 
 important,  and  also  being  willing  down  the  road  to  be  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 flexible  in  the  approach  and  adopt  new  solutions  as  1 
 they  come  up  is  also  very  important.  2 
 So  Im  extremely  excited  that  we  have  the  3 
 speakers  that  we  have  today  on  the  panel.  I  think  we  4 
 really  do  have  a  panel  that  represents  perhaps  an  5 
 aggregate  of  over  100  years  of  experience  in  this  6 
 field,  which  is  not  individually,  but,  you  know,  each  7 
 one  adds  up.  8 
 And  I  think  you  will  find  that  the  speakers  9 
 have  an  enormous  wealth  of  experience  to  share  with  us  10 
 today.  We  are  going  to  start  with  comments  from  Ed  11 
 Bosson,  who  is  widely  regarded  as  the  father  of  video  12 
 relay  service.  13 
 He  has  been  the  relay  Texas  administrator  14 
 since  1990.  In  this  capacity  he  manages  the  relay  and  15 
 associated  expenses  for  the  state  of  Texas.  He  has  16 
 won  numerous  awards  for  his  efforts  in  this  area,  17 
 including  awards  from  the  Texas  Associated  of  Deaf  18 
 Recognition  Award,  the  Robert  H.  Weitbrecht  19 
 Telecommunication  Access  Award  from  Telecommunication  20 
 for  the  Deaf  Inc.  21 
 He  has  also  received  TDIs  30  th  Anniversary  22 
 Recognition  Award  where  he  was  recognized  as  one  of  23 
 the  30  individuals  who  have  produced  the  greatest  24 
 impact  on  telecommunications  accessibility  for  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 America's  deaf  and  hard-  of-  hearing  citizens.  So  I  1 
 welcome  Mr.  Bosson  into  the  panel.  2 
 MR.  BOSSON:  Thank  you.  We  will  be  talking  3 
 about  the  impact  of  network  services  on  VRS.  As  a  4 
 result  of  the  internet  relay  and  VRS,  there  has  been  a  5 
 paradigm  shift  that  I  would  like  to  share  with  you.  6 
 Obviously,  TTY  users  are  now  migrating  to  7 
 VRS  and  internet  relay  services,  and  the  call  volume  8 
 of  traditional  relay  services  has  either  plateued  or  9 
 decreased  as  a  result  of  this  migration.  10 
 TRS,  traditional  relay  services,  are  now  11 
 rethinking  how  to  define  their  services  because  of  12 
 whats  going  on  in  the  internet  services  provided.  13 
 And  those  internet  services  have  provided  challenges  14 
 to  meeting  the  TRS  guidelines.  15 
 Functional  equivalency,  I  know  its  been  16 
 discussed  and  analyzed,  and  rediscussed,  but  Id  like  17 
 to  really  emphasize  that  functional  equivalency  should  18 
 be  based  on  the  senses  and  how  those  services  are  19 
 accessed  via  the  sense.  20 
 Hearing  people  use  a  telephone  with  a  voice  21 
 and  hearing.  And  that  gives  them  access  very  easily.  22 
 Deaf  people  use  sight  as  their  sense  of  communication  23 
 access.  24 
 And  so  they  depend  on  sign  language  and  that  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 visual  access.  So  the  different  services  we  have,  1 
 like  VRS,  it  isnt  a  Cadillac  for  deaf  people,  its  2 
 really  just  a  basic  service  that  provides  functional  3 
 equivalency  to  that  which  is  already  out  there  for  4 
 other  users.  5 
 Also,  these  new  changes  are  affecting  6 
 interpreters.  Interpreters  used  to  have  to  go  from  7 
 place  to  place  to  do  their  work  and  interpret  for  8 
 people.  9 
 But  now  interpreters  are  taking  on  desk-  10 
 bound  work.  Many  interpreters  never  predicted  that  11 
 would  happen  to  their  industry.  But  it  is  happening  12 
 as  they  work  in  VRS  call  centers.  13 
 More  and  more  deaf  people  are  having  access  14 
 to  computers  in  their  homes.  And  so  they  are  using  15 
 internet  relay  and  video  relay  services.  And  it  is  16 
 making  it  easier  for  them  to  communicate.  17 
 And  they  are  not  using  TTYs  anymore.  And  we  18 
 have  already  seen  several  deaf  people  talk  about  how  19 
 TTYs  are,  you  know,  being  thrown  out  and  land  lines  20 
 are  being  cut  off,  that  they  are  focused  on  only  the  21 
 internet  services  that  they  are  able  to  access  at  this  22 
 time.  23 
 Internet  services  will  require  different  24 
 rules  and  regulations.  Average  speed  of  answer  is  one  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 that  thats  being  affected,  you  know.  We  need  to  1 
 determine  how  quick  it  needs  to  be  answered,  you  know.  2 
 The  different  internet  speeds  that  people  3 
 are  connecting  with,  you  know.  So  the  regulations  4 
 need  to  come  up  with  a  fair  result  of,  you  know,  cost  5 
 of  service  and  quick  speed  of  answer.  6 
 Also  identifying  callers,  the  originating  7 
 caller  and  the  terminating  caller,  how  to  identify  8 
 callers.  Should  that  be  required?  Or  should  that  be  9 
 a  service  that  isnt  required  anymore?  10 
 Should  the  regulations  require  internet  11 
 capable  services  have  logins  and  password  protection  12 
 to  minimize  some  of  the  fraud  cases  that  we  are  now  13 
 experiencing?  14 
 The  question  has  come  up  about  the  funding  15 
 source  for  those  internet  services.  Should  they  be  16 
 moved  back  to  the  state  level  or  maintained  at  the  17 
 Federal  level?  18 
 Id  like  to  really  emphasize  that  the  funds  19 
 are  collected  --  the  money  is  collected  from  the  20 
 carriers.  And  the  carriers  collect  from  the  rate  21 
 payers.  22 
 And  so  really,  in  essence,  whatever  we  call  23 
 it,  the  rose  is  still  going  to  smell  the  same.  Okay?  24 
 Whether  it  is  Federal  or  State.  On  that  basis  I  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 believe  the  Federal  Government  should  study  which  1 
 would  be  the  most  cost-  effective  and  the  most  2 
 accessible,  provide  the  most  access  and  be  the  most  3 
 fair,  not  only  to  the  phone  companies,  but  to  the  rate  4 
 payers.  5 
 Because  those  are  the  people  who  are  6 
 ultimately  paying  for  this  service.  So  if  we  looked  7 
 at  it  on  a  Federal  sponsorship  level,  I  would  8 
 encourage  the  FCC  to  look  into  Federal  funding  support  9 
 for  internet  relay  and  VRS  completely.  10 
 I  think  it  is  more  cost  effective.  It  will  11 
 distribute  the  costs  more  evenly  to  all  of  the  12 
 carriers,  and  as  a  result  of  that  to  all  of  the  rate  13 
 payers.  14 
 All  of  the  payments  that  they  make  will  be  15 
 equalized.  If  it  was  pushed  onto  the  states  that  they  16 
 had  to  pay  for  internet  and  VRS  services,  competition  17 
 would  only  happen  at  the  RFP  level.  18 
 Vendors  tend  to  hold  back  new  technology  and  19 
 new  ideas  and  wait  until  RFPs  come,  and  they  put  them  20 
 in,  in  hopes  to  win  over  their  competition.  So  at  21 
 that  different  level  it  puts,  at  the  Federal  level,  22 
 theres  more  competition  available,  rather  than  23 
 limiting  it  to  a  single  source  at  the  state  level.  24 
 If  it  is  pushed  down  to  the  state  level  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 there  most  often  isnt  a  multi-  vendor  approach.  The  1 
 RFP  approach  normally  chooses  one  vendor  for  the  2 
 state.  3 
 They  establish  a  contract.  And  deaf  people  4 
 then  are  limited  in  the  choices  that  they  currently  5 
 experience.  Price  per  minutes  depend  on  the  call  6 
 volume  histories  for  those  states.  7 
 And  in  the  RFP  that  get  sent  out,  a  vendor  8 
 will  look  at  that  state  and  say  well  if  you  have  a  9 
 call  volume  the  price  per  minute  will  go  down.  But  if  10 
 its  a  low  call  volume  then  the  price  goes  up  per  11 
 minute.  12 
 And  so  then  that  cost  is  pushed  back  to  the  13 
 rate  payer,  depending  on  which  state  you  live  in.  If  14 
 the  states  did  decide  to  go  ahead  and  take  a  multi-  15 
 vendor  approach,  the  cost  would  then  be  much  higher  16 
 then  if  its  done  on  a  Federal  level.  17 
 What  you  see  here  on  the  screen,  all  of  18 
 these  new  things  we  have  coming  up,  in  itself  19 
 contribute  to  a  reduction  of  the  call  volume  of  20 
 traditional  relay  services,  which  is  a  good  thing,  21 
 actually.  22 
 In  conclusion,  VRS  and  IP  relay  needs  to  be  23 
 subsidized  by  the  National  fund.  There  should  be  24 
 special  regulations  that  are  separate  from  traditional  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 relay  service  regulations  because  of  internet  1 
 accessibility.  2 
 Its  not  unlike  what  the  FFC  is  doing  right  3 
 now  with  VoIP,  developing  new  regulations  and  new  4 
 protocols.  The  same  thing  needs  to  happen  with  5 
 internet  relay  and  VRS  services  conducted  over  the  6 
 internet.  7 
 Functional  equivalency  needs  to  be  taken  a  8 
 hard  look  at  and  redefine  functional  equivalency.  It  9 
 needs  to  be  redefined  in  a  way  that  will  be  more  fair  10 
 to  deaf  people.  Thank  you  very  much.  11 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  All  right,  our  next  panelist  12 
 is  Dr.  Paul  Michaelis,  who  is  a  consulting  member  of  13 
 the  technical  staff  in  Avaya  Labs,  and  an  adjunct  14 
 professor  in  the  Cognitive  Science  Institute  at  the  15 
 University  of  Colorado  in  Boulder.  16 
 He  is  the  inventor,  or  co-  inventor,  of  many  17 
 Avaya  accessibility  solutions.  He  currently  has  over  18 
 15  patents,  or  patents  pending  in  this  area.  He  is  19 
 the  recipient  of  the  Access  Innovation  Award  from  the  20 
 Association  of  Access  Engineering  Specialists  for  his  21 
 development  of  the  TTY  user  interface  for  the  Intuity  22 
 messaging  system.  23 
 He  was  a  member  of  the  Lucent  Intellectual  24 
 Property  Board  of  Advisors,  and  a  distinguished  member  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 of  the  technical  staff  of  Bell  Laboratories.  We  are  1 
 very  pleased  to  have  him  with  us  here  today.  2 
 MR.  MICHAELIS:  Thank  you.  And  also  I  would  3 
 like  to  thank  everyone  for  inviting  Avaya  to  speak  4 
 about  regulatory  considerations.  In  most  cases  we  5 
 prefer  to  rely  on  market  forces  to  guide  our  decisions  6 
 about  the  products  we  should  offer.  7 
 However,  with  regard  to  VoIP  systems  and  8 
 services,  it  is  clear  that  market  forces  alone  will  9 
 not  protect  the  rights  of  individuals  with  10 
 disabilities.  11 
 The  history  of  our  Intuity  voice-  mail  system  12 
 may  illustrate  why  we  believe  that  some  form  of  13 
 regulation  is  essential.  In  1993  I  helped  design  and  14 
 build  the  TTY  user  interface  for  this  system.  15 
 A  key  feature  is  that  callers  may  select  16 
 whether  they  wish  to  be  prompted  by  voice  or  in  TTY  17 
 format.  This  means,  of  course,  you  can  give  the  same  18 
 phone  number  to  voice  and  TTY  callers.  19 
 Regardless  of  the  prompting  format,  callers  20 
 may  leave  voice  or  TTY  messages.  This  TTY  interface  21 
 is  a  standard  feature  in  the  Intuity  system.  It  is  22 
 not  an  add-  on,  there  is  no  license  fee,  there  is  no  23 
 right-  to-  use  fee.  24 
 The  only  thing  a  system  administrator  needs  25 
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 to  do  is  turn  it  on.  Now,  despite  these  efforts  to  1 
 encourage  accessibility,  we  are  finding  that  the  vast  2 
 majority  of  Intuity  systems  do  not  have  TTY  support  3 
 activated.  4 
 It  is  clear  that  many  organizations  do  not  5 
 understand  the  need  to  provide  accessible  6 
 communication  to  their  employees  and  to  their  7 
 customers.  8 
 In  this  environment  we  cannot  expect  that  9 
 market  pressures  alone  will  ensure  that  VoIP  systems  10 
 are  accessible.  Before  I  discuss  regulations  that  may  11 
 be  appropriate  and  beneficial,  I  think  its  important  12 
 to  describe  a  few  technical  differences  between  13 
 traditional  phone  systems  and  VoIP.  14 
 When  you  have  an  active  call  on  a  standard  15 
 residential  telephone,  all  transmissions  are  carried  16 
 on  a  single  audio  channel.  This  would  include  your  17 
 voice,  as  well  as  touch  tones  and  modem  signals.  18 
 Many  assistive  devices,  notably  TTYs,  rely  19 
 on  the  phone  systems  ability  to  transmit  audio  20 
 information  reliably  and  without  distortion.  In  the  21 
 present  regulatory  environment,  VoIP  audio  channels  22 
 are  not  required  to  support  reliable  TTY  23 
 communication.  24 
 This  is  a  problem  because  the  voice  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 optimized  audio  compression  commonly  used  in  VoIP  1 
 systems  can  decrease  TTY  accuracy  to  the  point  it  2 
 becomes  unusable.  3 
 An  exciting  aspect  of  VoIP  technology  is  4 
 that  even  while  a  call  is  in  progress,  all  sorts  of  5 
 non-  audio  information  may  be  transmitted  via  parallel  6 
 data  channels.  7 
 Avaya  is  already  using  this  capability  to  8 
 provide  reliable  transport  of  Baudot  TTY  signals  on  9 
 VoIP-  wide  area  networks.  So  rather  than  transmit  the  10 
 TTY  tones  via  the  voice  channel,  a  description  of  the  11 
 tones  is  sent  via  a  parallel  data  channel,  the  12 
 receiving  system  reconstructs  the  original  audio  tones  13 
 for  the  TTY  device  at  the  far  end.  14 
 And,  for  the  benefit  of  any  engineers  in  the  15 
 audience,  these  descriptions  are  in  the  format  16 
 specified  by  RFC  2833,  and  are  sent  redundantly  to  17 
 compensate  for  packet  loss.  18 
 It  works  beautifully.  The  mechanism  I  just  19 
 described  brings  our  voice  systems  up  to  parody  with  20 
 traditional  phone  systems.  VoIP  technology  allows  us  21 
 to  considerably  more.  22 
 A  good  example  of  software  for  Avaya  IP  23 
 telephones  is  provided  by  Avaya  for  free  called  24 
 Universal  Access  Phone  Status.  It  takes  advantage  of  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 capabilities  that  are  present  in  our  IP  telephones  to  1 
 provide,  via  voice  output,  all  of  the  information  that  2 
 is  presented  visually  to  sighted  users,  such  as  which  3 
 lines  are  available,  which  are  in  use,  whether  the  4 
 phone  is  forwarded,  whether  there  is  new  voice-  mail,  5 
 whether  someone  on  hold  has  been  disconnected.  6 
 In  fact,  over  200  different  functions  are  7 
 supported  by  this  product.  My  flow  of  the  time,  here  8 
 are  three  high  level  recommendations  regarding  9 
 regulatory  control  of  VoIP.  10 
 First,  regardless  of  how  the  FCC  eventually  11 
 comes  out  on  the  issue  of  is  VoIP  a  telecom  or  an  12 
 information  service,  Avaya  supports  the  idea  that,  at  13 
 a  minimum,  the  current  accessibility  requirements  for  14 
 traditional  phone  systems  should  be  applied  to  VoIP.  15 
 In  addition,  we  would  like  these  regulations  16 
 implemented  at  the  Federal  level,  so  that  17 
 manufacturers  wont  have  to  deal  with  multiple  18 
 standards  and  regulations  that  may  be  developed  by  the  19 
 individual  states.  20 
 Second,  we  believe  that  a  barrier  might  21 
 develop  between  VoIP  users  and  the  users  of  22 
 traditional  systems  if  interoperability  and  backward  23 
 compatibility  are  not  required.  24 
 I  regard  my  third  point  as  really  being  the  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 most  important.  We  believe  that  if  accessible  VoIP  1 
 systems  cost  more  than  their  inaccessible  equivalents,  2 
 the  FCC  may  be  unable  to  guarantee  the  rights  of  3 
 people  with  disabilities  regardless  of  whether  VoIP  4 
 regulations  are  adopted.  5 
 Previous  statements  from  the  FCC  demonstrate  6 
 that  they  have  been  reluctant,  and  appropriately  so  in  7 
 my  opinion,  to  require  capabilities  that  are  not  8 
 readily  achievable.  9 
 A  key  component  of  how  the  FCC  defines  10 
 readily  achievable  takes  into  account  the  cost  of  the  11 
 incremental  action.  Now,  the  accessibility  solutions  12 
 I  have  described  today  are  included  in  our  products  13 
 without  additional  charges  or  fees.  14 
 This  was  a  priority  for  us  during  the  design  15 
 process.  And  we  were  able  to  achieve  this  by  taking  16 
 advantage  of  capabilities  that  were  actually  already  17 
 present  in  our  systems.  18 
 For  example,  the  TTY  on  IP  solution  uses  a  19 
 mechanism  that  was  implemented  originally  to  transmit  20 
 touch-  tones  on  the  internet.  The  TTY  messaging  system  21 
 I  described  to  you  uses  a  software  that  was  22 
 implemented  originally  to  support  multi-  lingual  spoken  23 
 announcement  sets.  24 
 How,  this  style  of  engineering,  which  we  try  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 to  piggy-  back  inexpensively  onto  existing  1 
 capabilities,  has  a  very  important  objective.  Now,  2 
 keep  in  mind,  the  cost  component  and  how  the  phrase  3 
 readily  achievable  is  defined.  4 
 We  believe  that  if  accessible  systems  cost  5 
 more  than  inaccessible  equivalents  this  could  lead  to  6 
 discrimination  of  the  provision  of  services  and  7 
 opportunities  for  employment  in  organizations  that  are  8 
 unable  to  or  unwilling  to  cover  the  extra  expense.  9 
 By  reusing  capabilities  that  were  already  10 
 present  in  our  systems,  we  are  providing  accessible  11 
 solutions  for  VoIP  that  are,  by  definition,  readily  12 
 achievable.  13 
 Now,  realistically,  it  is  not  always  14 
 possible  to  include  accessibility  within  a  standard  15 
 product  for  no  additional  charge.  However,  one  thing  16 
 you  can  count  on  is  that  Avaya  will  always  try.  17 
 Going  forward,  we  look  forward  to  working  18 
 with  the  FCC  and  with  the  community  in  general  to  19 
 ensure  that  everyones  needs  are  respected  and  20 
 accommodated.  Thank  you.  21 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  Thank  you  very  much  Paul.  22 
 Our  next  panelist  is  Paul  Schroeder  who  serves  as  the  23 
 Vice  President  of  Policy  Research  and  Technology  for  24 
 the  American  Foundation  for  the  Blind.  25 
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 He  is  responsible  for  AFBs  activities  1 
 related  to  legislative  and  public  policy,  research  and  2 
 demographic  trends  and  efforts  to  improve  access  and  3 
 information  concerning  technology.  4 
 He  has  been  directly  responsible  for  a  5 
 number  of  significant  developments,  including  helping  6 
 to  negotiate  disability  access  language  during  the  7 
 1996  Telecom  Act.  8 
 He  has  been  a  leading  advocate  in  the  effort  9 
 to  enact  legislation  that  would  improve  access  to  text  10 
 books  for  students  who  are  blind  or  visually  impaired.  11 
 And  he  has  also  been  a  leading  voice  in  AFBs  work  to  12 
 foster  a  greater  access  to  cell  phones  and  other  13 
 telecommunications  equipment.  Paul,  thank  you  very  14 
 much  for  being  with  us.  15 
 MR.  SCHROEDER:  Thank  you,  very  much.  And  16 
 good  afternoon.  I  want  to  observe  that  so  far  we  have  17 
 all  been  very  nice  and  behaved.  And  I  will  try  to  18 
 keep  to  that.  19 
 I  think  its  kind  of  a  suit  and  necktie  20 
 phenomena  that  we  are  all  kind  of  constrained  from  21 
 speaking  perhaps  directly.  And  I  want  to  compliment  22 
 Jim  Tobias  for  A,  not  having  a  necktie,  and  B,  being  23 
 fairly  provocative  in  some  of  his  comments.  24 
 And  I  thought  they  were  very  well  chosen.  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 And  those  of  you  who  may  have  missed  it,  especially  1 
 those  listening  on  the  web,  check  him  out.  They  were  2 
 good  comments.  3 
 Its  interesting  that  we  saved  the  4 
 regulatory  portion  to  last,  and  appropriately  so.  I  5 
 think  its  good  that  weve  been  able  to  talk  about  6 
 some  of  the  other  issues,  including  some  of  the  great  7 
 benefits  that  come  from  IP-  enabled  services.  8 
 I  want  to  make  a  couple  of  observations.  9 
 But  first  of  all  I  want  to  commend  the  Commission  for  10 
 an  excellent  notice  of  conveying  your  usual  breadth  11 
 and  depth  of  analysis.  12 
 Those  of  you  who  have  maybe  been  daunted  by  13 
 its  length  or  its  topic,  please  read  it.  Its  really  14 
 tremendous.  Its  a  great  read.  The  layering  15 
 discussion  alone  is  almost  Dostoevsky  in  tone.  16 
 You  will  enjoy  it.  It  will  be  in  literary  17 
 classes  next  year  Im  sure.  It  is  a  good  notice.  And  18 
 I  do  commend  it.  We  have  heard  a  lot  today  about  19 
 Voice  Over  IP.  20 
 And  I  want  to  express  a  concern  that  we  are  21 
 really  talking  about  something  far  deeper  and  more  22 
 significant  in  a  way  than  that.  Voice  Over  IP  fits  23 
 fairly  well  within  the  current  telecom  structure.  24 
 I  think  we  can  debate  and  argue  over  how  it  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 should  be  deemed  in  the  regulatory  scheme.  But  I  1 
 think  we  could  probably  come  down  and  agree  that  its  2 
 a  telecom  service  and  should  be  treated  as  such.  3 
 IP-  enabled  services  are  far  more  4 
 significant,  and  really  have  to  be  treated  5 
 differently.  And  thats  one  of  the  things  I  want  to  6 
 talk  about.  7 
 How  do  we  ensure  that  people  with  8 
 disabilities  have  reliable  access  to  these  IP  services  9 
 with  all  that  comes  with  them?  Well  it  should  be  no  10 
 surprise  to  anyone  here  that  Im  going  to  advocate,  11 
 yes,  regulations,  to  ensure  reliable  access  for  people  12 
 with  disabilities.  13 
 Voluntary  measures  and  market  forces  simply  14 
 dont  work.  Everybody  wants  them  to  work.  Everybody  15 
 says  they  should  work.  Everybody  hopes  they  will  16 
 work.  17 
 But  they  simply  dont  work  for  people  with  18 
 disabilities.  So,  even  though  we  might  say  it  over  19 
 and  over  again,  it  isnt  true.  It  hasnt  been  true,  20 
 and  I  doubt  for  the  foreseeable  future  that  it  will  be  21 
 true.  22 
 The  reason  for  that  is  fairly  simply.  We  23 
 simply  don't  have  the  sufficient  focused  power  in  the  24 
 marketplace  to  ensure  that  services  will  meet  our  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 needs.  1 
 So  it  seems  to  me  the  role  of  government,  2 
 and  in  this  case  the  FCC,  is  to  ensure  a  reliable  3 
 opportunity  for  equal  access,  albeit  with  minimal  4 
 intrusion.  5 
 Striking  that  balance  is  the  critical  task  6 
 confronting  the  Commission.  I  think  we  have  a  7 
 historic  moment  to  try  to  construct  the  right  8 
 regulatory  approach  that  meets  the  needs  of  consumers  9 
 with  disabilities,  rather  than  trying  to  shoehorn  us  10 
 into  the  unrelated  legacy  approaches  of  the  past.  11 
 Of  course  Im  referring  here  to  the  computer  12 
 inquiry  lines  of  reasoning,  and  to  the  economic-  based  13 
 regulatory  scheme  that  we  have  been  living  within.  14 
 Whatever  the  flaws  of  the  latter,  the  economic  scheme,  15 
 might  be,  certainly  it  has  served  important  interest,  16 
 especially  in  constraining  the  abuses  that  might  arise  17 
 for  monopoly  power.  18 
 But  even  in  a  non-  monopoly  condition,  people  19 
 with  disabilities  still  do  not  have  the  power  to  20 
 negotiate  the  rates,  the  terms,  and  conditions  that  21 
 affect  our  access  to  services.  22 
 With  respect  to  the  computer  inquiry  23 
 decisions,  one  wishes  we  could  have  been  around  40  24 
 years  ago  to  try  to  steer  things  in  a  different  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 direction.  1 
 Nonetheless,  most  of  us  werent,  maybe  a  2 
 couple  exceptions  on  this  table  since  weve  got  a  3 
 hundred  years  of  service.  We  have  said  several  times  4 
 in  our  responses  to  notices  here  at  the  FCC,  we  have  5 
 asked  the  FCC  to  try  to  go  beyond,  to  try  to  move  past  6 
 the  separation  of  basic  and  enhanced  or  telecom  and  7 
 information  services  that  arose  from  the  computer  8 
 inquiry.  9 
 Weve  said  that  in  our  comments  on  the  10 
 further  notice  of  inquiry,  Section  255,  and  weve  also  11 
 made  the  same  point  in  talking  about  broadband  12 
 services.  13 
 Obviously  the  analysis  in  the  notice  that  14 
 Commission  has  published  also  points  out  that  there  is  15 
 a  rich  communication  environment,  and  an  environment  16 
 that  does  go  well  beyond  the  division  of  telecom  and  17 
 if  services.  18 
 Nonetheless,  I  have  to  say  at  the  heart  of  19 
 the  discussion  of  regulatory  schemes  in  the  Federal  20 
 Communications  Commission  notice,  and  in  the  comments  21 
 here  this  afternoon,  we  have  continued  to  focus  on  22 
 voice  and  made  analogies  to  traditional  voice  23 
 telephony.  24 
 We  have  to  move  beyond  the  focus  on  voice.  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 And  we  have  to  get  to  a  focus  on  the  message,  on  the  1 
 content,  for  it  is  the  communication  of  that  content  2 
 that  really  is  essential.  3 
 Yes,  the  transmission  of  voice  is  important,  4 
 and  it  does  need  to  be  protected  in  terms  of  5 
 accessibility.  But  so  many  other  forms  of  content  6 
 described  in  the  notice,  and  talked  about  in  terms  of  7 
 the  IP  environment  that  we  are  now  in,  are  of  great  8 
 significance  to  people  with  disabilities,  and  are  9 
 simply  not  being  made  accessible.  10 
 I  have  no  doubt  that  the  marketplace  will  11 
 ensure  a  wide  panoply  of  services  and  products  for  12 
 consumers.  And  I  have  no  doubt  that  those  providing  13 
 those  services  will  find  a  way  to  make  money.  14 
 But  experience  tells  us  that  the  needs  of  15 
 people  with  disabilities,  if  thought  of  at  all,  will  16 
 be  addressed  as  afterthoughts,  retrofits,  and  17 
 incomplete  and  inferior  approaches.  18 
 We  are  not  looking  for  an  imposed  solution.  19 
 Nor  do  we  want  to  be  bought  off  with  a  scheme  that  20 
 says  special  devices  for  special  people.  So,  how  do  21 
 we  ensure  that  people  with  disabilities  can  take  equal  22 
 advantage  of  these  new  communications  services?  23 
 Well,  Im  going  to  say  that  I  think  Section  24 
 255  of  the  Communications  Act  actually  offers  the  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 right  starting  point.  Yes,  it  does  bear  the  struggles  1 
 of  having  been  written  with  a  telecom  and  information  2 
 services  distinctions  in  place.  3 
 But  it  addresses  the  needs  of  consumers  by  4 
 addressing  access  to  both  equipment  and  5 
 telecommunications  services.  And  it  sets  user  6 
 interface  standards.  7 
 Section  255  addresses  that  all  important  8 
 human  interface  to  communications.  Regardless  of  9 
 whether  we  are  describing  a  traditional  telephone,  or  10 
 whether  we  are  describing  something  that,  in  fact,  11 
 uses  enhanced  technologies.  12 
 I  am  convinced  that  standards  can  be  set  to  13 
 require  access  to  IP-  enabled  services,  that  we  can  14 
 look  at  end-  user  devices,  those  used  by  the  consumers  15 
 in  their  home  or  on  their  person,  the  controllers  of  16 
 those  devices,  be  they  personal  computers,  handheld  17 
 devices  or  otherwise,  the  software  that  runs  those  18 
 services,  the  electronic  services,  such  as  the  web-  19 
 bases  services  that  allow  individuals  to  interact.  20 
 And,  of  course,  we  can  ensure  that  the  21 
 communication  protocols  are  open  so  that  consumers  can  22 
 connect  at  will.  But,  as  I  said,  255  is  limited  by  23 
 its  applications  to  telecommunications  and,  frankly,  24 
 its  neglect  in  the  enforcement  here  at  the  Federal  25 
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 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 Communications  Commission.  1 
 Unfortunately,  our  hopes  have  not  been  2 
 realized.  But  I  believe  that  the  breadth  and  approach  3 
 of  255  remains  right.  Weve  gone  nearly  this  time  --  4 
 and  Im  closing  up  here  --  without  using  the  term  5 
 ancillary  jurisdiction.  6 
 And  I  cant  believe  we  have  gone  a  whole  7 
 morning  without  saying  that.  Its  the  right  8 
 regulatory  edifice  on  which  to  build  a  255-  like  9 
 approach  to  ensure  broad  access  to  IP  communications  10 
 and  technologies  for  people  with  disabilities.  11 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  Wed  like  to  get  people  12 
 warmed  up  for  a  while  before  we  actually  start  13 
 throwing  around  ancillary  jurisdiction.  By  the  way,  14 
 thank  you  very  much.  15 
 Thats  the  first  time  Ive  ever  heard  a,  16 
 speaking  on  behalf  of  the  staff  who  wrote  the  NPRM,  17 
 thats  first  time  Ive  ever  heard  any  part  of  an  FCC  18 
 order  referred  to  as  Dostoevskian.  19 
 We  usually  get  Kakkaesque.  And  its  really  20 
 not  that  long.  Its  only  about  60  pages  long,  which  21 
 is  actually  a  pamphlet  compared  to  most  of  what  we  do.  22 
 And  one  more  thing,  before  I  take  anymore  heat  on  this  23 
 hundred  year  comment,  Im  just  going  by  the  bios.  24 
 And  Vanderheiden  has  been  in  this  for  30  25 
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 years.  Mr.  Schroeder  has  been  in  it  for  20  years  from  1 
 his  bio,  Michaelis  for  25,  and  Mr.  Bosson  has  been  2 
 head  since  1990  of  the  Texas  TRS  Service,  and  has  3 
 probably  got  more  experience  than  that.  4 
 So,  youve  at  least  got  89  years  by  my  5 
 account.  So  just  put  that  to  rest.  Our  last  panelist  6 
 is  Dr.  Gregg  Vanderheiden  who  we  are  very  happy  to  7 
 have  again.  8 
 He  was  on  our  VoIP  forum  in  December  of  last  9 
 year,  and  provided  very  valuable  input  on  the  10 
 disabilities  access  issues.  So  we  are  very  happy  to  11 
 have  him  back  again  so  we  can  delve  into  more  detail  12 
 in  this  forum  here.  13 
 He  is  a  Professor  in  Industrial  Engineer  and  14 
 Biomedical  Engineering,  and  directs  the  Trace  Research  15 
 and  Development  Center  at  University  of  Wisconsin  in  16 
 Madison.  17 
 Dr.  Vanderheiden  has  been  working  in  this  18 
 field  for,  as  I  mentioned,  30  years.  He  pioneered  the  19 
 field  of  augmentative  communication  and  assistive  20 
 technology,  and  for  many  years  has  been  looking  at  21 
 issues  for  physical  and  cognitive  disabilities.  22 
 He  has  been  involved  with  computer  access  23 
 since  the  late  1970s.  And  many  access  features  he  has  24 
 developed  are  present  in  Mac,  UNIX,  and  Windows  25 
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 operating  systems.  1 
 He  has  worked  with  a  wide  variety  of  Federal  2 
 Government  agencies,  as  well  as  corporations.  His  3 
 recent  activities  focus  on  cross  disability  access  to  4 
 the  full  range  of  communication  and  information  5 
 technologies.  6 
 He  is  the  co-  author  of  W3Cs  web  content  7 
 accessibility  guidelines,  various  interconnection  8 
 standards,  and  voting  systems  that  are  usable  by  those  9 
 with  disabilities,  or  elderly.  10 
 Again,  we  are  very  happy  to  have  him.  11 
 And,  please?  12 
 MR.  VANDERHEIDEN:  Thank  you  very  much.  13 
 Again,  thank  you  for  the  invitation  and  for  putting  14 
 together  this  very  excellent  panel.  Coming  last  is  15 
 always  a  dubious  distinction.  16 
 And  I  will  try  not  to  plow  old  ground.  But  17 
 I  will  try  to  bring  some  things  together  and  to  really  18 
 look  at  some  of  the  underlying  forces  that  cause  19 
 things  to  happen  or  not  happen.  20 
 So  I  ask  the  question,  why  would  we  21 
 regulate?  And  the  answer  is  we  wouldn't  or  shouldnt  22 
 unless  we  have  to.  So,  is  this  true  for  Voice  Over  IP  23 
 and  for  IP  services?  24 
 And  lets  examine  this.  One  of  the  things  25 
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 we  saw  was  in  the  telecom  area  we  have  seen  nothing  1 
 happen  regarding  accessibility  and  mainstream  2 
 companies  and  products  until  regulation.  3 
 Although  there  were  serendipitous  things,  4 
 and  there  were  special  programs,  sometimes  special  5 
 adaptations  in  special  room.  But  we  havent  seen  6 
 anything  regarding  overall  access  to  the  different  7 
 disabilities  and  the  problems  they  face.  8 
 With  regulation,  we  also  saw  that  nothing  9 
 substantial  happened  that  hasnt  been  driven  by  FCC  10 
 enforcement  or  threat  of  enforcement.  And  so  when  11 
 that  has  either  relaxed  or  time  has  passed,  the  12 
 interests  and  the  efforts  in  the  companies  can  13 
 actually  be  seen  to  slacken  and  reduce.  14 
 When  a  complaint  is  filed,  interest,  15 
 activities,  funding,  and  work  within  the  companies  16 
 increases  again.  Now,  is  this  because  the  companies  17 
 are  bad,  or  evil?  18 
 And  the  answer  is  no.  Its  complicated,  but  19 
 the  underlying  driving  force  is  that  it  is  not  good  20 
 business  to  do  things  that  do  not  generate  the  most  21 
 profit.  22 
 This  is  a  very  competitive  industry.  And  23 
 those  who  ignore  this,  the  laws  of  business,  they  are  24 
 gone,  they  disappear.  And  we  here  who  buy  stocks  --  25 
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 anybody  here  buy  stocks  or  have  a  pension  fund?  1 
 We  want  our  stocks  to  generate  as  much  2 
 return  as  possible.  So  if  youre  like  we,  the  public,  3 
 are  the  evil  owners  of  these  companies  that  care  about  4 
 nothing  but  profit.  5 
 So  profit  isnt  bad,  its  life.  Its  like  6 
 gravity.  If  youre  old  and  you  fall  and  you  break  7 
 your  hip,  you  kind  of  curse  gravity.  But  if  you  8 
 didn't  have  gravity  you  wouldn't  have  traction,  you  9 
 couldn't  walk.  10 
 Profits  are  similar  to  gravity.  They  are  11 
 both  a  fact,  and  they  are  what  makes  things  work.  We  12 
 ignore  gravity  at  our  own  peril.  We  ignore  the  profit  13 
 motive  and  its  driving  and  critical  force  in  business,  14 
 at  the  peril  of  actually  the  consumer.  15 
 If  we  think  that  things  will  happen  for  the  16 
 consumer  for  any  other  reason  except  if  they  need  to,  17 
 then  we  basically  are  ignoring  gravity.  So  what  does  18 
 this  have  to  do  with  regulation?  19 
 Regulations  are  a  way  of  taking  important  20 
 things  that  wont  and  dont  happen  by  market  forces,  21 
 that  arent  in  the  profit  equation,  and  putting  them  22 
 into  the  profit  equation.  23 
 Profit  is  what  makes  businesses  work.  24 
 Regulation  is  how  society,  and  what  society  uses  to  25 
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 make  sure  that  our  values  are  in  the  profit  equations.  1 
 So  it  comes  down  to  a  series  of  questions.  2 
 Number  one,  do  we  think  that  access  to  3 
 telephony  is  important  for  people  with  disabilities,  4 
 including  those  who  are  older?  And,  by  the  way,  all  5 
 of  us  will  acquire  disabilities,  unless  we  die  first.  6 
 So,  the  answer  is  yes,  telecom  is  essential  7 
 to  daily  life.  Its  essential  to  independent  living,  8 
 particularly  as  we  age.  You  will  find  it  becomes  more  9 
 and  more  essential.  10 
 And,  increasingly,  this  has  also  come  to  be  11 
 access  to  IP.  Question  two,  is  IP  telecom?  Well,  12 
 from  the  legislation,  we  see  that  telecommunication  is  13 
 the  transmission  between  or  among  points  specified  by  14 
 the  user  of  information  of  the  users  choosing,  15 
 without  change  in  the  form  or  content  of  the  16 
 information  center  received.  17 
 Thus,  the  internet  is  telecom.  The  world  18 
 wide  web  would  not.  That  is,  the  internet  which  19 
 connects  us  all  would  be,  but  an  information  service  20 
 on  the  internet  may  not.  21 
 Question  three,  is  VoIP  telecom?  Well,  22 
 first  of  all,  it  is  transmission  among  specific  points  23 
 specified  by  the  user,  etcetera.  Secondly,  we  are  24 
 seeing  that  it  is  rapidly  replacing  the  public  switch  25 
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 telephone  network,  especially  in  some  markets.  1 
 And  if  PSTN  was  telecom,  regardless  of  2 
 whether  it  was  transmitted  using  wires  or  light,  or  3 
 microwaves,  or  satellites,  or  data  packets  over  wire  4 
 or  air,  which  is  what  the  public  switch  telephone  5 
 network  does,  why  would  VoIP  not  be  telecom  because  we  6 
 used  differently  shaped  packets  and  hand  shaking  over  7 
 the  same  media?  8 
 Question  four,  if  it  is  telecom,  is  9 
 regulation  needed?  And  the  answer  is  for  some  aspects  10 
 no,  regulation  is  not.  But  for  accessibility  it  is.  11 
 As  we  noted  earlier,  whether  it  is  TTY  compatibility  12 
 or  TV  decoders,  or  hearing  aid  compatibility,  nothing  13 
 has  really  happened  without  FCC  requirement.  14 
 Are  standards  the  answer?  And  the  answer  is  15 
 they  are  a  very  important  component.  But  of  all  the  16 
 standards  that  have  been  passed  related  to  17 
 accessibility,  the  only  ones  that  have  been  18 
 implemented,  are  those  that  have  been  required  by  the  19 
 FCC.  20 
 In  fact,  our  colleagues  working  in  various  21 
 international  standards  groups  are  dismayed  to  hear  22 
 companies  say  that  they  are  only  going  to  support  the  23 
 U.  S.  related  accessibility  standards  or  components  of  24 
 standards  because  those  are  the  only  ones  they  are  25 
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 required  to.  1 
 Question  five,  do  I  have  anything  cheerful  2 
 to  say?  Yes.  Access  over  IP  technologies  is  cheaper  3 
 and  easier.  There  are  many  examples  of  this.  And  we  4 
 have  heard  some  of  them  today.  5 
 One  is  a  concept  that  we  have  been  working  6 
 on  a  major  VoIP  company  with  that  would  allow  you  to  7 
 install  one  program  on  the  central  call  manager  8 
 server,  and  instantly  all  10,000  or  20,000,  or  however  9 
 many  phones  you  have,  that  are  inaccessible  on  the  10 
 enterprise  would  become  text  compatible.  11 
 I  don't  mean  you  could  hook  up  a  TTY.  I  12 
 mean  you  could  communicate  in  text  on  them.  A  deaf  13 
 person  could  walk  up  to  any  phone  and  communicate  in  14 
 voice  or  text,  or  mixed,  without  any  TTY,  or  any  other  15 
 device,  and  without  changing  the  phones  at  all  from  16 
 what  they  are  today.  17 
 Number  two,  access  over  IP  technologies  can  18 
 address  many  more  needs  for  more  people  as  we  have  19 
 already  seen  today.  And  number  three,  access  over  IP  20 
 technology  can  be  simpler  for  those  who  are  older.  21 
 Yes,  wouldn't  it  be  nice  if  any  technology  22 
 got  simpler?  It  can  be  simpler  for  people  who  are  23 
 older  and  give  them  what  they  need  when  they  need  it  24 
 to  stay  independent  without  changing  how  the  phone  25 
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 operates  for  the  rest  of  us.  1 
 And  theres  more.  But  it  wont  happen  if  no  2 
 one  requires  it  to.  Enforced  regulation  can  make  it  3 
 profitable  to  make  things  accessible.  It  can  keep  4 
 good  actors  from  losing  ground  to  bad  actors.  5 
 It  can  level  the  playing  field.  It  can  make  6 
 sure  that  everyone  takes  access  into  account.  And  it  7 
 can  cause  access  to  be  part  of  doing  business,  and  a  8 
 standard  part  of  the  future  telecom  system  design.  9 
 And,  finally,  it  can  make  sure  that  telecom  10 
 is  there  for  us,  and  usable  by  us,  when  each  of  us  11 
 grows  old  and  needs  it.  And  we  will.  Thank  you.  12 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  Id  like  to  start  off  the  Q&  A  13 
 session  with  a  question  that  sort  of  takes  us  a  step  14 
 beyond  the  on/  off  switch  of  whether  it  is  regulated,  15 
 or  required,  or  not  regulated  or  required.  16 
 Because  I  would  like  to  sort  of  delve  into  17 
 what  the  content  of  a  requirement  would  be.  Lets  18 
 assume  there  is  a  requirement  of  disabilities  access  19 
 applicable  to  VoIP,  however  that  might  be  deployed  in  20 
 the  system.  21 
 How  do  we  best  implement  that  requirement?  22 
 Do  we  as  the  FCC  issue  detailed  specific  requirements  23 
 that  VoIP  companies  have  to  abide  by?  Do  we  just  have  24 
 a  general  requirement  and  then  enforce  it  on  sort  of  a  25 
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 case-  by-  case  basis  and  essentially  allow  standards  to  1 
 develop?  2 
 Or  do  we  take  a  much  higher  level  approach  3 
 and  require  a  series  of  reports  to  see  how  it  actually  4 
 happened,  how  the  technology  actually  develops  out  in  5 
 the  market?  6 
 Any  one  of  these  is  a  valid  approach.  But,  7 
 from  your  perspective,  which  one  do  you  think  works  8 
 the  best,  and  can  be  enforced  the  best?  Go  ahead.  9 
 MR.  MICHAELIS:  Number  one,  I  would  have  to  10 
 say  that  the  FCC  needs  to  consider  a  telephone  to  be  a  11 
 telephone,  regardless  of  the  transport  mechanism.  A  12 
 phone  is  a  phone.  13 
 Well  start  at  that  basis.  Next,  I  think  we  14 
 need  to  recognize  that  even  if  I,  as  a  manufacturer,  15 
 am  required  to  provide  accessibility,  that  doesn't  16 
 necessarily  mean  that  they  are  going  to  keep  lining  up  17 
 to  buy  my  products.  18 
 Thats  the  reason  I  cited  the  example  of  our  19 
 voice-  mail  system.  We  have  been  providing  this  TTY  20 
 support  now  for  over  a  decade.  Nobody  is  using.  Not  21 
 nobody,  but  very  few  people,  disappointingly  few  of  22 
 our  customers  have  actually  enabled  this  capability  on  23 
 the  system.  24 
 All  they  need  to  do  is  turn  it  on.  So  I  25 
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 would  like  --  I  dont  know  how  to  propose  to  do  this  -  1 
 -  but  I  would  like  some  sort  of  regulation  that  2 
 encourage  more  of  my  customers  to  put  accessibility  3 
 into  their  RFPs.  4 
 Aside  from  non-  government  agencies,  we  are  5 
 seeing  very  few  RFPs  from  the  business  community  6 
 saying  we  want  the  solution  you  sell  us  to  be  7 
 accessible.  8 
 Thats  just  not  happening.  I  don't  know  9 
 what  enforcement  mechanism  might  encourage  that,  but  10 
 that  would  certainly  be  a  wonderful  thing,  if  I  11 
 started  seeing  our  customers  asking  for  it,  instead  of  12 
 trying  to  force  it  on  to  them,  or  perhaps  you  forcing  13 
 it  on  to  them  by  saying  its  a  required  component  of  14 
 the  product.  15 
 And  then,  finally,  again,  I  want  to  16 
 reemphasize  the  importance  of  having  the  regulations  17 
 be  Federal  in  nature.  If  each  of  the  50  states  adopts  18 
 its  own  regulations,  thats  going  to  be  a  terrible  19 
 mess  for  all  of  us.  20 
 We  really  need  centralized  control  of  what  21 
 this  environments  going  to  look  like.  22 
 MR.  SCHROEDER:  Just  a  couple  of  follow-  up  23 
 comments.  I  would  say  one  in  three  in  the  scenarios  24 
 you  laid  out.  One  being  very  specific,  and  I  regret  25 
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 having  to  say  that.  1 
 Because  its  almost  like  voluntary-  based  2 
 measures.  I  wish  general  requirements  would  work  and  3 
 did  work,  because  it  would  allow  things  to  move  4 
 forward.  5 
 They  only  can  if  theres  an  aggressive  6 
 enforcement  and  review  behind  it,  which  is  why  I  say  7 
 three  also,  because  its  one  of  the  things  we  missed,  8 
 it  seems  to  me,  in  the  255  world,  is  having  some  form  9 
 of  required  reporting  on  actually  whats  being  done  10 
 where  we  would  have  it  down  in  clear  digits  or  print,  11 
 or  whatever,  that  the  there  isnt  much  accomplished,  12 
 at  least  in  some  areas  of  the  marketplace  for  people  13 
 with  disabilities.  14 
 And  so  that  would  allow  the  Commission  to  15 
 come  back  and  look  for,  you  know,  why  is  this  16 
 occurring,  and  what  can  we  do  about  it?  I  guess  17 
 specific  and  follow  on  reporting  requirements.  18 
 The  other  thing  is,  you  know,  Pauls  point  19 
 is  right,  and  I  wish  in  some  ways  I  wish  we  could  have  20 
 written  the  ADA  a  few  years  later  where  we  could  have  21 
 gotten  at  electronic  access  as  a  required  element,  as  22 
 opposed  to  something  we  are  still  arguing  about  in  the  23 
 courts.  24 
 Because  some  of  the  things  you  are  talking  25 
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 about  might  well  have  been  covered  if  we  could  have  1 
 made  it  clear  at  the  outset  that  services  needed  to  be  2 
 made  accessible,  webs  needed  to  be  made  accessible,  3 
 ecommerce  needed  to  be  made  accessible.  4 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  Gregg?  5 
 MR.  VANDERHEIDEN:  Yes.  Its  a  good  6 
 question  about  performance  based  and  design  based.  In  7 
 508  theres  performance  and  design  based.  And  the  8 
 performance  based  are  essentially  ignored.  9 
 The  performance  criteria  at  the  bottom,  10 
 theres  no  guideline  for  them,  theres  not  comment  on  11 
 them,  theres  not  support  documents  on  them,  because  12 
 what  people  really  look  for  is  something  very  13 
 specific.  14 
 They  want  to  know  what  is  it  and  can  I  test  15 
 whether  I  have  done  it.  And  the  more  general  and  16 
 performance  you  make  it,  the  more  someones  got  to  17 
 come  back  here  and  ask  you  did  this  pass.  18 
 And  thats  not  good  for  a  company,  because  a  19 
 company  cant  put  a  product  out  on  the  market  and  then  20 
 after  they  put  it  out  come  talk  to  you.  And  they  21 
 dont  really  want  to  come  talk  to  you  with  their  22 
 secret  brand  new  product.  23 
 One  other  thing  is  a  phone  is  a  phone.  24 
 Conversation  is  conversation.  Another  thing  that  we  25 
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 see,  wherever  there  is  conversation,  there  should  be  1 
 text.  2 
 I  mean,  on  the  IP  network,  there  really  3 
 isnt  a  reason  why  you  would  have  voice  communication,  4 
 where  you  cant  have  text  intermixed.  And  if  you  have  5 
 voice  and  vision  and  no  text,  which  is  like  a  30  th  of  6 
 the  bandwidth,  and  the  easiest  to  implement,  you  know,  7 
 why?  8 
 And  the  answer  is  you  didn't  have  to  do  it,  9 
 so  we  just  did  the  things  that  we  thought  were  going  10 
 to  be  market  driven.  Again,  the  market.  Its  good  11 
 business,  its  just  not  good  society.  12 
 Performance  under  duress.  One  of  the  things  13 
 that  we  need  to  look  at  --  we  talk  about  these  things  14 
 and  people  say  youre  going  to  use  G.  711,  and  thats  15 
 great,  except  when  theres  a  hurricane,  theres  a  16 
 tornado,  theres  any  kind  of  pressure  on  the  system.  17 
 What  will  the  systems  do?  Will  they  drop  18 
 half  the  phone  calls,  or  will  they  drop  the  GE729?  I  19 
 mean,  we  had  one  where  we  said  how  are  you  going  to  20 
 guarantee  the  text  will  continue  if  there  was  a  thing?  21 
 And  he  said,  oh,  the  first  thing  we  would  do  22 
 is  cut  all  the  text  out  so  we  would  get  more  voice  23 
 calls  through.  And  this  was  in  a  conversation  about  24 
 accessibility  for  people  who  are  deaf.  25 
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 The  comment  was,  oh,  even  though  the  text  1 
 takes  a  very  --  I  mean,  you  could  have  many,  many  text  2 
 conversations  for  one  voice  conversation,  they  would  3 
 cut  them  out  so  they  would  get  one  more  voice  in.  4 
 Now,  that  wasnt  the  company  decision,  that  5 
 was  just  a  reaction  by  one  of  the  people  from  a  6 
 company  who  was  looking  at  this  issue.  Finally,  I  do  7 
 think  the  idea  of  reports  over  time  is  good.  8 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  I  said  that  Ed  would  have  an  9 
 opportunity  to  address  this  one.  10 
 MR.  BOSSON:  There  is  already  a  clause  in  11 
 Title  4  of  the  ADA,  where  it  clearly  states,  it  12 
 encourages  that  new  technologies.  And  so  I  believe  13 
 that  the  FCC  can  use  that  particular  language  in  the  14 
 ADA  to  expand  the  regulations  to  apply  to  both  VRS  and  15 
 IP  relay.  16 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  We  have  a  question  over  here.  17 
 MR.  TOBIAS:  Jim  Tobias,  Inclusive  18 
 Technologies.  Im  sorry  to  be  testifying  from  both  19 
 sides  of  the  witness  stand,  but  I  too  agree  that  20 
 periodic  reports,  collecting  and  disseminating  21 
 information  about  accessibility  solutions  that  are  22 
 there  in  the  marketplace,  be  they  mainstream  23 
 technologies,  or  assistive  technologies,  is  a  good  24 
 idea.  25 
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 And,  in  fact,  the  access  board,  and  I  1 
 believe  we  have  --  there  he  is.  Hes  right  here,  2 
 right  behind  me,  probably  follow  on  to  my  comments  --  3 
 issued  a  market  monitoring  report  in  1999,  which  our  4 
 company  performed.  5 
 And  it  was  at  that  time  kind  of  a  snapshot  6 
 of  accessibility  solutions,  what  were  the  features  in  7 
 telecom  products?  And  so  it  might  be  time,  five  years  8 
 now,  to  go  on  and  do  more  of  that.  9 
 But  I  would  like  to  renew  what  I  said  on  the  10 
 panel.  And  that  is  to  focus  on  outcomes,  not  on  11 
 performance,  and  not  on  design  criteria,  but  on  12 
 outcomes.  13 
 You  have  a  huge  staff  of  very  talented  14 
 econometricians  who  should  be  able  to  calculate  the  15 
 social  cost  and  the  social  benefit  of  accessibility  16 
 policy.  17 
 In  fact,  the  Commission  responded  to  exactly  18 
 this  issue  a  number  of  years  ago  when  TRS  coin  sent  19 
 paid  was  an  issue.  And  that  is,  Im  carrying  my  TTY,  20 
 I  want  to  make  a  relay  call  from  a  payphone.  21 
 The  estimated  cost  to  the  industry  of  making  22 
 the  necessary  network  changes  so  that  an  800  number  23 
 could  wind  up  at  a  billing  system  was  estimate  to  24 
 something  like  150  million  dollars.  25 
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 The  volume  of  calls  was  estimated  at  1 
 somewhere  between  1,500  and  2,000  calls  a  year.  It  2 
 was  quickly  realized  that  that  was  not  a  socially  3 
 valuable  decision  to  make.  4 
 And  so,  in  fact,  part  of  the  Commissions  5 
 rule  was  not  to  make  a  technical  change,  to  provide  6 
 workarounds  for  all  of  the  TTY  users,  and  to  have  a  7 
 massive  outreach  campaign  of  information  about  how  you  8 
 can  perform  relay  calls  from  a  payphone.  9 
 And  I  would  consider  that  to  be  another  10 
 regulatory  model  to  use.  11 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  Andy  comments  from  the  panel  12 
 on  that?  13 
 MR.  VANDERHEIDEN:  Yes,  I  would  like  to  14 
 speak  to  the  outcome.  And  one  of  the  things  that  I  15 
 think  the  FCC  has  done  from  time  to  time  is  that  come  16 
 back  to  the  industry  and  say  gee,  this  is  something  we  17 
 were  considering.  18 
 You  said  it  was  going  to  get  fixed.  It  is  19 
 now  X  years  later,  you  know.  Are  people  who  are  deaf  20 
 able  to  successfully  communicate?  And  if  they  say,  21 
 well,  yes,  we  are  working  on  it.  22 
 The  answer  is  you  have  been  working  on  it.  23 
 And  it  is  actually  easy  to  design  things  that  need  24 
 specs,  that  still  dont  make  accessible  communication.  25 
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 The  other  thing  Id  like  to  say  is  that  one  of  the  1 
 things  that  that  kind  of  a  thing  can  do  is  it  can  look  2 
 at  more  than  just  the  types  of  disability  or  the  cases  3 
 that  have  been  brought  in  as  a  complaint.  4 
 The  number  of  times  Im  sitting  with  5 
 somebody  and  you  are  trying  to  solve  a  problem,  and  6 
 they  say  okay,  but  if  you  do  it  that  way  you  are  going  7 
 to  create  a  problem  for  this  other  disability,  and  8 
 they  say  oh,  thats  okay,  theyre  not  suing  us.  9 
 And  so  I  think  its  one  of  the  other  things  10 
 that  that  type  of  an  approach  would  do  in  a  report  in  11 
 looking  at  it,  is  that  you  can  look  across  the  12 
 disabilities,  not  just  at  the  ones  that  happen  to  have  13 
 been  vocal  up  until  now.  14 
 DR.  PEPPER:  If  I  could  actually  just  ask  15 
 Gregg  a  very  specific  question,  because  I  think  you  16 
 may  actually  have  the  answer  asked  by  an  earlier  17 
 questioner.  18 
 And  that  is  the  --  then  a  more  general  one  19 
 to  your  comments  --  the  specific  question  is  what  is  20 
 the  current  state  of  voice  recognition  software  and  21 
 its  implementation?  22 
 MR.  VANDERHEIDEN:  This  is  actually  one  of  23 
 the  powers  of  Voice  Over  IP,  is  that  you  can  actually  24 
 get  a  phone  client  that  would  just  go  right  on  your  25 
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 laptop,  or  a  PDA.  1 
 And  we  now  have  voice  recognition,  which  2 
 gets  better  and  better  each  day,  that  would  run  while  3 
 you  talk.  And  it  would  literally  type  into  the  VoIP.  4 
 So  youd  not  have  to  have  voice  recognition  in  the  5 
 VoIP  at  all.  6 
 And  each  year  that  voice  recognition  gets  7 
 better  with  your  old  phone  you  would  get  better  and  8 
 better.  IBM  is  working  on  a  project  called  super-  9 
 human  speech  recognition.  10 
 And  its  goal  is  to  be  better  than  a  human  11 
 being  at  recognizing  speech.  And  we  will  get  there.  12 
 DR.  PEPPER:  So  this  is  actually  one  of  the  13 
 good  things,  then.  14 
 MR.  VANDERHEIDEN:  It  is  a  tremendous  power,  15 
 except  if  one  decides  that  if  its  not  a  phone,  16 
 doesn't  look  like  a  phone,  if  its  a  laptop  that  makes  17 
 a  phone  call  its  not  covered.  18 
 I  dont  mean  the  whole  laptop,  I  mean  just  19 
 the  phone  ap.  Then  that  would  fall  by  the  wayside.  20 
 MR.  BOSSON:  Voice  recognition,  Im  not  21 
 sure,  you  may  have  heard  already  several  people  22 
 mention  Captel  this  morning.  Thats  a  new  service  for  23 
 hard-  of-  hearing  individuals.  24 
 They  use  the  service  that  has  voice  25 
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 recognition  within  it.  And  it  makes  it  possible  then  1 
 for  a  hard-  of-  hearing  person  to  make  a  call  to  a  2 
 hearing  person.  3 
 That  individual,  when  speaking  back  to  them,  4 
 it  comes  through  the  Captel  program  where  it  has  a  5 
 person  who  is  able  to  speak  in  a  way  that  the  Captel  6 
 will  recognize  and  presents  the  hard-  of-  hearing  person  7 
 with  text.  8 
 And  they  can  have  a  live  conversation.  We  9 
 see  that  more  and  more  states  are  using  this  10 
 technology.  And  its  ideal  for  the  elderly,  for  hard-  11 
 of-  hearing  people,  who  still  have  good  speech.  12 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  We  have  time  for  two  last  13 
 questions  before  we  move  on  to  the  Chairmans  closing  14 
 remarks.  Please,  go  first.  15 
 MR.  BAQUIS:  Good  afternoon.  My  name  is  16 
 David  Baquis.  And  I  work  for  the  U.  S.  Access  Board.  17 
 And  I  would  like  to  raise  the  issue  of  section  508.  18 
 One  question  that  we  get  at  the  Access  Board  is  very  19 
 simple,  yes  or  no,  is  VoIP  covered  as  a  telecom  20 
 product  by  the  section  508  standards?  21 
 And  the  Access  Board  has  not  seeken  to  take  22 
 the  position  that  we  want  to  be  the  first  to  determine  23 
 that  voice  over  the  internet,  or  internet  telephony,  24 
 is  a  telecom  product  before  the  FCC  rules  on  this.  25 
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 So  this  is  a  very  important  issue  because  1 
 these  decisions  about  procured  telecom  products  would  2 
 be  enforceable.  And  second,  we  know  that  although  the  3 
 section  508  law,  the  Rehabilitation  Act,  applies  only  4 
 to  Federal  agencies,  we  are  well  aware  that  many  5 
 entities  in  society  are  voluntarily  looking  at  those  6 
 standards  and  internalizing  them  into  their  own  state  7 
 laws,  or  polices.  8 
 So  when  I  do  things  like  travel  to  the  state  9 
 of  California  and  they  ask  me  about  what  they  should  10 
 be  doing  for  accessibility  of  their  telecom  products,  11 
 they  also  want  to  know.  12 
 And  they  dont  just  want  to  be  told  that  13 
 they  could  do  the  right  thing  if  they  had  the  14 
 resources  to  do  so.  But  they  want  to  know  what  they  15 
 have  to  do.  16 
 And  so  it  would  be  very  helpful  to  us  if  we  17 
 had  a  sense  of  how  this  issues  going  to  be  dealt  with  18 
 and  when  the  timeline  is,  and  also  what  the  19 
 enforcement  implications  will  be  for  Federal  agencies  20 
 that  have  already  purchased  Voice  Over  IP-  type  21 
 products,  which  may  or  may  not  be  perfectly  conformant  22 
 with  the  law.  23 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  Would  anybody  on  the  panel  24 
 like  to  address  that?  25 
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 MR.  VANDERHEIDEN:  I  think  thats  a  request  1 
 to  the  FCC.  I  think  508  talks  about  functionality  so  2 
 that  if  its  a  telecommunication  functionality  it  3 
 might  be  considered  to  fall  under  the  4 
 telecommunication  regs  of  508  without  getting  into  5 
 deciding  whether  Voice  Over  IP  is.  6 
 Its  the  functionality.  So  that  might  be  a  7 
 way  of  addressing  that.  8 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  All  right.  Las  question.  9 
 MR.  SLETS:  My  name  is  Ken  Slets  with  the  10 
 Information  Technology  Industry  Council,  the  IT  side  11 
 of  the  spectrum.  We  tend  to  view  Voice  Over  IP  as  12 
 probably  something  that  is  transitioning  from  our  side  13 
 of  the  technology  into  a  telecom  type  service.  14 
 But  we  would  like  to  suggest  the  FCC  to  be  a  15 
 little  careful  about  how  you  approach  this.  In  terms  16 
 of  performance  versus  design  standards  and  17 
 requirements,  we  tend  to  view  design  standards  as  18 
 being  a  ceiling.  19 
 It  tends  to  be  a  ceiling  in  the  innovation  20 
 market,  so  to  speak.  Whereas  performance  essentially  21 
 establishes  a  floor.  When  you  establish  a  floor  in  22 
 terms  of  your  requirements  that  enables  changes  in  the  23 
 marketplace.  24 
 Our  technology  advances,  as  everybody  knows,  25 
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 extremely  rapidly.  I  suspect  that  thats  going  to  be  1 
 the  same  thing  with  Voice  Over  IP.  We  are  going  to  2 
 see  new  technologies.  3 
 They  are  probably  already  on  the  drawing  4 
 board,  that  are  going  to  roll  out  that  will  achieve  or  5 
 accomplish  a  lot  of  the  accessibility,  not  only  for  6 
 people  with  disabilities,  but  for  everybody.  7 
 And  I  would  just  sort  of  caution  not  to  be  8 
 too  rapid  in  trying  to  box  this  in,  because  you  might  9 
 in  essence  box  out  solutions.  And  then,  secondly,  10 
 just  suggesting  that,  again,  with  performance-  based  11 
 requirements  what  you  essentially  do  is  provide  the  12 
 opportunity  for  competition.  13 
 If  you  tell  people  how  to  design  their  14 
 products,  or  what  specifically  has  to  be  in  there,  it  15 
 may  provide  the  near  term  solutions,  but  it  may  16 
 prevent  solutions,  again,  that  we  havent  even  17 
 contemplated  that  ultimately  may  be  much  better  for  18 
 the  marketplace,  and  particularly  for  the  industry.  19 
 Thank  you.  20 
 MR.  SCHROEDER:  I  just  want  to  return  to  the  21 
 importance  of  looking  at  these  IP  services  more  22 
 broadly  than  simply  looking  at  Voice  Over  IP.  I  think  23 
 this  question  really  points  to  the  need  for  that.  24 
 Ken,  your  point  is  not  doubt  right  at  some  25 
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 level.  It  doesn't  seem  to  be  proving  right  in  terms  1 
 of  actually  getting  technology  companies  to  move  2 
 forward,  even  on  the  design  standards  that  are  3 
 required.  4 
 Let  me  make  a  broader  point,  which  is  the  5 
 needs  of  those  of  us  with  disabilities  don't  change  as  6 
 rapidly  as  technology  does.  They  dont  change  over  7 
 hundreds  of  years  very  much.  8 
 I  cant  see  today.  I  wont  be  able  to  see  9 
 tomorrow,  and  I  wont  be  able  to  see  in  a  hundred  10 
 years  when  Im  up  there  near  Greggs  age.  And  so  Im  11 
 not  going  to  be  able  to  read  text  off  of  a  screen  any  12 
 better  tomorrow  than  I  am  today,  and  any  better  five  13 
 years  from  now.  14 
 So,  unless  that  text  can  be  converted  into  15 
 something  accessible,  speech  or  Braille  for  the  16 
 moment,  I  cant  use  it.  Im  not  going  to  be  able  to  17 
 find  a  button  on  a  touch  screen  any  better  tomorrow  18 
 than  I  am  today,  and  any  better  in  five  years.  19 
 So,  unless  that  button  that  controls  the  20 
 device  is  identifiable  by  the  means  that  I  have  at  my  21 
 disposal,  Im  not  going  to  be  able  to  use  it.  And  so,  22 
 one  of  the  beauties  to  me  of  section  255,  and  really  23 
 the  508  standards  as  well,  is  that  they  really  do  24 
 speak  to  user  needs.  25 
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 So  while  the  technology  changes,  and  while  1 
 we  should  be  promoting  accessible  design  with  rapid  2 
 innovation,  the  needs  of  the  users  dont  change  3 
 dramatically.  4 
 And  the  ability  to  interface  with  technology  5 
 is  very  much  dependant  on  ones  disability.  And  so  6 
 the  reason  we  feel  its  so  important  for  the  7 
 Commission  to  broaden  its  view  of  this  notice,  to  not  8 
 just  focus  on  voice,  but  to  focus  on  all  IP  services.  9 
 And  we  argue  the  same  thing  back  in  the  10 
 further  notice  of  inquiry.  We  tried  to  get  you  to  fit  11 
 email  in  as  a  telecom  service.  We  still  think  thats  12 
 right,  because  essentially  it  is  communications  going  13 
 on.  14 
 The  point  is,  we  dont  have  any  sense  that  15 
 were  going  to  have  access  to  it  as  blind  people,  16 
 because  our  needs,  to  be  able  to  have  access  to  17 
 something  in  a  non-  visual  way,  or  in  a  way  that  uses  18 
 our  low  vision,  dont  change  over  time.  19 
 And  the  technology  industry  needs  to  be  able  20 
 to  provide  those  solutions,  yes,  through  innovation.  21 
 But  the  solutions  need  to  be  provided.  And  for  my  22 
 money  the  only  way  they  are  going  to  happen  is  through  23 
 a  regulatory  mandate.  24 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  We  are  going  to  have  two  last  25 
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 answers.  One  from  Ed,  and  then  one  from  Gregg.  And  1 
 then  well  conclude  the  panel.  2 
 MR.  VANDERHEIDEN:  Just  a  quick  one.  There  3 
 is  something  between  the  functional  performance  and  4 
 the  very,  very  specific  design  that  we  might  be  5 
 considering.  6 
 It  has  to  be  measurement-  based.  But  we  7 
 could  talk  about  measurement-  based  functional  8 
 performance  that  looks  at,  again  as  Paul  had  talked  9 
 about,  what  is  it  that  an  individual,  whether  they  are  10 
 sighted  or  blind  or  whatever,  needs  to  be  able  to  get?  11 
 And  then  can  we  provide  some  measurements  as  12 
 to  whether  or  not  this  is  being  provided  in  fashions  13 
 that  can  be  made  into  the  form  that  people  need.  And  14 
 the  only  key  on  it  is  that  we  need  to  do  these  15 
 measurements  under  duress.  16 
 Doing  these  things  to  telecom  systems  in  17 
 ideal  situation  isnt  going  to  do  it.  18 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  Well,  I  want  to  thank  all  of  19 
 our  panelists  for  giving  us  an  awful  lot  to  think  20 
 about  on  this,  and  also  solutions  for  some  of  the  21 
 issues  that  weve  got.  22 
 This  is  a  Solutions  Summit,  I  think  you  all  23 
 came  with  a  very  specific  set  of  recommendations  for  24 
 us.  And  in  the  months  to  come  we  will  be  taking  them  25 
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 very  seriously.  Thank  you,  very  much.  1 
 What  wed  like  to  do  now  is  welcome  to  the  2 
 podium  the  Chairman  of  the  FCC,  Michael  Powell,  who  3 
 will  be  providing  us  with  closing  remarks.  4 
 CLOSING  REMARKS  5 
 CHAIRMAN  POWELL:  Thank  you  Jeff.  And  6 
 welcome  to  all  of  you  here  at  the  Federal  7 
 Communications  Commission.  You  know,  I  have  a  text  8 
 here,  but  I  think  Im  going  to  push  it  aside  and  talk  9 
 from  our  experience  and  from  my  heart.  10 
 We  all  have  recognized,  and  probably  have  11 
 heard  today,  enormous  potential  that  IP-  enabled  12 
 services  provide  for  all  kinds  of  consumer  welfare  13 
 enhancing  applications.  14 
 And  to  take  off  from  a  comment  I  heard  a  15 
 minute  ago,  its  about  anything  and  everything  IP.  16 
 Voice  is  one  manifestation.  But  if  it  by  no  means  17 
 will  be  the  only  one.  18 
 And  this  causes,  as  is  natural  in  public  19 
 policy  debate,  an  immediate  recitation  of  the  20 
 problems.  But  what  this  is  in  part  an  effort  to  do  is  21 
 to  talk  about  the  opportunities  at  the  earliest  22 
 possible  stage.  23 
 I  tend  to  think  about  the  break  through  in  24 
 IP  technology  as  putting  more  tools  in  a  tool  box  to  25 
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 use  to  solve  the  problems  of  the  public,  whether  it  be  1 
 universal  service,  in  which  we  have  always  had,  one  2 
 solution,  to  try  to  bring  services  to  very  despaired  3 
 communities,  different  geographies,  different  4 
 demographics,  different  socio-  demographic  classes.  5 
 That  made  that  problem  very,  very  difficult.  6 
 We  may  have  the  opportunity  to  use  a  host  or  suite  of  7 
 IP-  enabled  devices  and  technologies  and  services  in  8 
 different  segments  of  the  industry  to  promote  and  9 
 tackle  problems  at  a  deeper  level,  and  a  quicker  and  10 
 more  responsive  level.  11 
 And  thats  what  I  think  IP  holds  the  promise  12 
 for  us  all  to  do.  Now,  while  the  initial  debates  13 
 about  Voice  Over  IP  have  largely  been  about  whether  14 
 you  should  regulate,  for  economic  purposes,  the  way  15 
 you  regulate  the  telephone  system,  it  occurred  to  us  16 
 that  there  were  core  values  that  should  stand  outside  17 
 of  that  value,  core  values  that  no  matter  what  the  18 
 communication  system  is,  just  to  take  off  on  the  19 
 comment  about  the  human  being  doesn't  change.  20 
 The  human  being  in  core  values  that  are  21 
 needed  to  be  preserved  arent  going  to  change  either.  22 
 We  wanted  to,  at  an  early  stage,  highlight  and  focus  23 
 on  those  things  specifically  and  specially.  24 
 And  disability  access  to  my  mind,  and  to  our  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 passion,  is  one  of  those  things.  I  have  been  here  for  1 
 seven  years,  and  worked  on  many  issues  for  the  2 
 disability  community.  3 
 And  we  have  had  many  proceedings  on  them  4 
 over  the  years.  But  theres  always  the  same  criticism  5 
 and  problem  about  policies  approach  to  disability  6 
 access  issues.  7 
 Its  always  being  retrofitted.  Its  always  8 
 being  bolted  on  at  the  end.  And  its  always  twice  as  9 
 difficult  because  its  being  thought  of  at  the  end,  10 
 after  investments  have  been  made,  choices  have  been  11 
 made,  policies  have  been  developed.  12 
 And,  oh  by  the  way,  lets  take  care  of  this  13 
 function  in  the  mature  stages.  What  the  Solutions  14 
 Summits  approach  is,  or  intent  to  do,  is  for  those  15 
 core  values,  bring  those  stake  holders  in  this  16 
 community  together  at  the  earliest  possible  stage.  17 
 That  is  as  early  as  and  as  swiftly  as  18 
 government  agencies  can  move,  to  begin  to  talk  about  19 
 quickly  identifying  the  kinds  of  problems,  the  scope  20 
 of  what  wed  like  to  see  solved,  to  engage  the  stake  21 
 holders,  create  the  networks,  talk  about  the  22 
 regulatory  policies  right  from  the  beginning.  23 
 And  thats  why  we  have  asked  you  all  to  come  24 
 here  and  be  a  part  of  this,  and  why  this  is  so  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 valuable  to  us  and  --  I  think  if  we  do  it  right  --  to  1 
 you.  2 
 And  its  also  a  way  of  providing  a  3 
 collective  expertise  to  our  legislator,  and  our  4 
 president,  about  how  these  issues  will  unfold  in  the  5 
 years  to  come  long  after  this  particular  Commission,  6 
 or  even  any  of  the  people  in  this  room,  are  still  7 
 working  on  these  issues.  8 
 So,  this  is  vital.  It  is  critical.  It  may  9 
 even  be  a  little  novel.  But  in  that  I  think  is  10 
 promise.  And  I  just  wanted  to  offer  my  personal  11 
 commitment  to  you  that  thats  what  were  attempting  to  12 
 do.  13 
 We  want  to  be  partners  in  that.  We  want  to  14 
 be  driven  by  that.  And  we  will  continue  to  do  so.  15 
 But  you  all  are  a  critical  voice  or  access  to  16 
 understanding  where  those  problems  lie.  17 
 So  I  hope  this  is  not  just  an  event  that  we  18 
 will  celebrate  having  happened  on  this  day  in  may.  19 
 But  it  really  is  the  inauguration  of  a  relationship  20 
 and  a  dialogue  that  over  the  next  five,  ten,  twenty,  21 
 and  thirty  years,  will  be  able  to  be  a  demonstration  22 
 in  the  information  age  as  to  how  these  kinds  of  core  23 
 values  can  be  predicted,  preserved  in  a  regulatory  24 
 exercise.  And  so,  thank  you  very  much  for  being  with  25 
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 NEAL  R.  GROSS  COURT  REPORTERS  AND  TRANSCRIBERS 
 1323  RHODE  ISLAND  AVE.,  N.  W.  (202)  234-  4433  WASHINGTON,  D.  C.  20005-  3701  www.  nealrgross.  com 

 us.  Thank  you  very  much  for  your  insights.  I  assure  1 
 you  we  have  all  this  recorded.  I  personally  am  going  2 
 to  watch  the  whole  summit.  3 
 And  I  look  forward  to  working  with  you  in  4 
 the  days  and  years  to  come  to  make  this  a  reality  and  5 
 have  us  celebrating  that  the  internet  revolution  truly  6 
 was  a  revolution  for  everybody.  7 
 And  so  with  that,  again,  I  thank  you.  I  8 
 thank  you  for  having  me  with  you.  And  I  look  forward  9 
 to  our  continuing  relationship,  best  of  luck.  10 
 MR.  CARLISLE:  All  right,  with  that  I  will  11 
 call  the  Solutions  Summit  to  a  close.  Although  I  12 
 would  hope  that  the  people  in  this  room  and  that  13 
 people  who  have  the  benefit  of  watching  us  over  the  14 
 internet  will  interface  with  each  other  and  talk  with  15 
 each  other  and  continue  the  dialogue  on  these  issues.  16 
 Just  to  remind  you,  this  will  be  archived  on  17 
 our  webpage.  Please  go  to  www.  fcc.  gov/  ipwg  for  the  18 
 webcast.  And  todays  presentation  and  transcript  will  19 
 become  part  of  the  public  record  in  our  IP-  enabled  20 
 services  NPRM  docket  number  WCP04-  36.  21 
 So  thats  an  appropriately  regulatory  way  to  22 
 end.  But  thank  you  very  much  for  coming.  23 
 (Whereupon,  the  proceedings  went  off  the  24 
 record.)  25 
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