From RPRDANI@TECHNION.BITNET  Sun Apr 14 16:20:17 1993
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In-Reply-To: Message of 13 Apr 1993 15:54:09 -0500 from
 <wayne%zippy.nimh.nih.gov@mail.tc.umn.edu>
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From: dd <RPRDANI@TECHNION.BITNET>
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Subject: Re: On-line PLOT
Date: 14 Apr 1993 10:50:17 +0530 (IST)
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Thanks, Wayne I'll try to Macro the On-line "Brightness vs time" plot.

danni


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed Apr 14 10:56:26 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 10:56:26 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Image bombs until I delete

>THe INIT has since been identified as the new INIT 17 Mac viruys. Can be
>eliminated by Disinfectant 3.1

I have uploaded Disinfectant 3.1 to the util directory on
zippy.nimh.nih.gov.

--wayne


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed Apr 14 12:58:36 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:58:36 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Adding to a segmented line

>I seem to be having problems adding to a segmented line as indicated in the manu
>al. I select a broken line by multiple clicks and end the selection with a doubl
>e click. I then press the control key while making a second selection in the
>hope that the length of both selections will be added in one result but the
>original selection disappears. Am I doing something wrong or I just
>missinterpreted the manual??? 

You cannot use the control key with the line tool to extend an existing
line selection. You can, however, add rectangular, oval or freehand
selections to a line selections. This restriction exists because Image uses
QuickDraw regions to support editing of selections.

--wayne


From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu  Wed Apr 14 10:14:58 1993
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Date:     Wed, 14 Apr 93 14:14:58 EDT
From: "Herbert M. Geller" <geller@synapse.umdnj.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject:  Ratio Imaging
Message-Id:  <9304141414.aa23625@synapse.umdnj.edu>

To image users:

	I have a modest amount of end-of-year grant money to spend
on imaging equipment.  Right now, I have both Mac & PCs in the lab
and can use either.  If I could have my 'druthers, I would like to
have the ability to do 1) time lapse image capture, including the
use of autofocus attachments & stage controllers (Ludl or other);
and 2) calcium ratio imaging.  

	Now I realize that the ideal ratio imaging is done with a cooled
CCD camera, but I believe that is out of my price range.  Already
on hand is a microchannel image intensifier.  

	In my preliminary thoughts, I have put together the following as
likely purchases:

	1)	DAGE CCD-72 camera & controller
	2)  Ludl 2000 box, filter wheels, autofocus and stage controller
	3)	Scion frame grabber board.
	4)	Optical disk recorder.

	Now, if there are any of you out there that have experience with
my proposed applications & this equipment, I would appreciate your advice.

	I am of the suspicion that in order to do fura-2 imaging with this
hardware, I will need to average; therefore, will this equipment do it?
Maybe all I need is extra memory for the frame grabber, or do I need
a different frame grabber?  Will the ludl box work fast enough?

Herb Geller 

(Maybe all i


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed Apr 14 13:22:15 1993
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	id AA03774; Wed, 14 Apr 93 14:32:40 -0400
Message-Id: <9304141832.AA03774@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 13:22:15 +0000
To: WILLI JAHNEN-DECHENT <JAHNEN@MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: frame grabber cards for IMAGE
Cc: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

>can you recommend any frame grabber card for Mac LCII and LC III computers
>to use with your IMAGE software? In the documentation on IMAGE I found only
>cards for NUBUS Macs. Thank you,

Image 1.50 will support any frame grabber or scanner that has a Photoshop
plug-in. The only frame grabber I know of for the LC is the SuperMac Video
Spigot, but I don't know if a plug-in is available for it. I am currently
testing V1.50's plug-in support using a LaCie SilverScanner flatbed
scanner.

--wayne


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed Apr 14 13:35:20 1993
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Message-Id: <9304141845.AA03794@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 13:35:20 +0000
To: anupm@pop.nih.gov
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Drawing polygon ROI through macros / Pascal
Cc: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

>  I am working on an application where I need to compute the area of
>polygon cells for which I have the coordinates stored in a file. Is there a
>way I can use these coordinates to draw a polygon ROI using macro or pascal
>routine and then use the standard area measurement technique to get the
>area etc..

One way you might be able to this would be to use the "Plot XYZ macro"(in
"More Macros") to plot the polygon, then use the wand tool to outline it
and Measure to compute the area.

--wayne


From nih-image@soils.umn.edu  Wed Apr 14 13:00:57 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 13:00:57 -0500
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Comment:  NIH Image Distribution List
Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
To: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Adding to a segmented line

>I seem to be having problems adding to a segmented line as indicated in the manu
>al. I select a broken line by multiple clicks and end the selection with a doubl
>e click. I then press the control key while making a second selection in the
>hope that the length of both selections will be added in one result but the
>original selection disappears. Am I doing something wrong or I just
>missinterpreted the manual??? 

You cannot use the control key with the line tool to extend an existing
line selection. You can, however, add rectangular, oval or freehand
selections to a line selections. This restriction exists because Image uses
QuickDraw regions to support editing of selections.

--wayne



From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu Apr 15 16:32:36 1993
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	id AA05509; Thu, 15 Apr 93 17:43:17 -0400
Message-Id: <9304152143.AA05509@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 16:32:36 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Ratio Imaging

>	1)	DAGE CCD-72 camera & controller
>	2)  Ludl 2000 box, filter wheels, autofocus and stage controller
>	3)	Scion frame grabber board.
>	4)	Optical disk recorder.
>
>	Now, if there are any of you out there that have experience with
>my proposed applications & this equipment, I would appreciate your advice.
>
>	I am of the suspicion that in order to do fura-2 imaging with this
>hardware, I will need to average; therefore, will this equipment do it?
>Maybe all I need is extra memory for the frame grabber, or do I need
>a different frame grabber?  Will the ludl box work fast enough?

Adding more memory to the LG-3 allows you to capture frames at video rates
but the averaging stii has to be done in software. A 16MB LG-3 can capture
32 frames in about one second, but it takes Image 10 or 15 seconds to
compute the average. One way to do real-time averaing using the LG-3 is to
get Dage's $4000 DSP-200 digital image processor.

--wayne


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu Apr 15 16:58:53 1993
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	id AA05550; Thu, 15 Apr 93 18:09:34 -0400
Message-Id: <9304152209.AA05550@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 16:58:53 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: WaitForTrigger bug in 1.49b5?

>I have been using WatiForTrigger in macros that need to act upon a mouse
>click. 
>Thle Button macro command hasn't worked in quite the way I needed.  While
>the macros work fine with 1.49b5 on a system with a frame grabber card,
>most of my development is on a Mac without a capture card (our Image
>system is in continuous use and if I'm gooing to work at night, i'd rather
>do it at home).
>	On a machine without a framegrabber card invoking a macro with the
>WaitForTrigger command results in the following error message: "External
>triggering requires a Quick Capture Card".  The macros were written with
>1.47, and as I recall, worked with 1.46b2, on my IIci without a capture card.


Couldn't you use the following procedure instead of WaitForTrigger?

procedure WaitForButton;
begin
  repeat until button;
  repeat until not button;
end;

The second repeat loop prevents "auto-repeating" if the mouse button is
held down too long. Without it, WaitForButton and WaitForTrigger should
behave the same way.

--wayne


From glenmac@u.washington.edu  Thu Apr 15 08:28:11 1993
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Sender: glenmac@carson.u.washington.edu
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 15:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glen Macdonald <glenmac@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: WaitForTrigger bug in 1.49b5?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9304152209.AA05550@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Yes, replacing WaitForTrigger with "repeat until button" solved the
problem.  thanks to Ed Huff for a prior reply about that.  I had stayed
away from the repeat until button because my earlier variants on that
resulted in loops of repeated button counts.

	repeat until x<0 or y<0 
	to terminate the counting macros ran afoul of the new NotInBounds
error trap in utilities.p (I'm getting more adventursome messing around in the
source), so I then added
	KillRoi;
	at the bottom of the macro terminating statements to get around it.
the macro will be posted to /contrib on zippy as Cavalieri soon as I get
the doc. written.  

thanks for the help.
-Glen



From JONKER@amc.uva.nl  Tue Apr 16 09:20:39 1993
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Date: 16 Apr 1993 08:20:39 +0100 (MET)
From: JONKER@amc.uva.nl
Subject: subscribe address, in the docs? moderated list?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GX2LYRGAKY0002UK@amc.uva.nl>
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Is the address of the list, and how to subscribe, in the docs from
image1.49 on?
Is this the proper address to do the subscription (asking for a
fellow user)
Is the list moderated, or should I presume that my message has
gone oblivious if I don't find it in the mailing after a
few days (which has happened lately)
If the list is moderated, I don't expect this message to appear
on the list, but I would like to receive an acknowledge of receipt,
to prevent a catch-22.
Ard


From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Fri Apr 16 06:42:52 1993
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 11:42:52 CDT
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9304161642.AA05649@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: subscribe address, in the docs? moderated list?
In-Reply-To: JONKER@amc.uva.nl's message <01GX2LYRGAKY0002UK@amc.uva.nl> of 16 April 1993
References: <01GX2LYRGAKY0002UK@amc.uva.nl>

JONKER@amc.uva.nl <JONKER@amc.uva.nl> writes on 16 April 1993 at 02:14:12 -0500
 > Is this the proper address to do the subscription (asking for a
 > fellow user)

My standard "so you're trying to subscribe" posting:

========================================================================
If you are trying to subscribe to the list, send the following as the
*first* line of a message to "listserv@soils.umn.edu"

sub nih-image Your Name

Where Your Name is your real (English) given name.

Your email address will be deciphered by the listserv software.

    -jml	NIH-Image list administrator.
========================================================================

 > If the list is moderated, I don't expect this message to appear
 > on the list, but I would like to receive an acknowledge of receipt,
 > to prevent a catch-22.

You can control whether you see copies of your own postings via the

    set nih-image mail ack
or
    set nih-image mail noack

control messages, sent to "listserv@soils.umn.edu".


 > Is the list moderated, or should I presume that my message has
 > gone oblivious if I don't find it in the mailing after a
 > few days (which has happened lately)

This list is not moderated.  If you have your subscription set to see
your own posts (which is the default subscription configuration), and
you don't see the message back in a fairly short time, you may
assume that it didn't make the list.  It is possible for the
listserver software to be down for a short while, or the machine which
hosts it, but both have been *very* reliable.

This is the first message from you I've seen in over a week.

These are all the messages from the list in the last week or so; you
should have seen all but one:

========================================================================
Apr 10 19:21:03 nx1 sendmail[6691]: AA06691: message-id=<m0nhpjN-000DKTC@wcse0.phy.cam.ac.uk>
Apr 12 12:28:40 nx1 sendmail[11713]: AA11713: message-id=<9304121725.AA23528@mailgate.roche.com>
Apr 12 13:12:23 nx1 sendmail[11925]: AA11925: message-id=<9304121543.AA27844@ecuanex.ec>
Apr 12 14:08:24 nx1 sendmail[12186]: AA12186: message-id=<Pine.3.05.9304121206.A860-9100000@otter.biochem.ubc.ca>
Apr 13 04:23:25 nx1 sendmail[14498]: AA14498: message-id=<9304130917.AA10902@decnet.sunet.se>
Apr 13 07:23:54 nx1 sendmail[15129]: AA15129: message-id=<9304131221.AA03437@helix.nih.gov>
Apr 13 15:53:49 nx1 sendmail[17024]: AA17024: message-id=<9304132100.AA02321@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 13 15:55:59 nx1 sendmail[17069]: AA17069: message-id=<199304132053.AA17020@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Apr 14 02:56:52 nx1 sendmail[18754]: AA18754: message-id=<01GWZI5EGUF69AN5E4@vx.cis.umn.edu>
Apr 14 11:00:55 nx1 sendmail[20462]: AA20462: message-id=<9304141607.AA03405@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 14 13:01:58 nx1 sendmail[21115]: AA21115: message-id=<9304141809.AA03728@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 14 13:21:27 nx1 sendmail[21368]: AA21368: message-id= <9304141414.aa23625@synapse.umdnj.edu>
Apr 14 13:28:36 nx1 sendmail[21446]: AA21446: message-id=<9304141832.AA03774@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 14 13:38:55 nx1 sendmail[21551]: AA21551: from=<nih-image@soils.umn.edu>, size=948, class=0, received from localhost (127.0.0.1)
Apr 15 16:36:27 nx1 sendmail[26800]: AA26800: message-id=<9304152143.AA05509@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 15 17:02:53 nx1 sendmail[26989]: AA26989: message-id=<9304152209.AA05550@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 15 17:45:28 nx1 sendmail[27222]: AA27222: message-id=<Pine.3.05z.9304151508.A23912-a100000@carson.u.washington.edu>
Apr 16 02:17:04 nx1 sendmail[29098]: AA29098: message-id=<01GX2LYRGAKY0002UK@amc.uva.nl>
Apr 10 19:21:03 nx1 sendmail[6691]: AA06691: message-id=<m0nhpjN-000DKTC@wcse0.phy.cam.ac.uk>
Apr 12 12:28:40 nx1 sendmail[11713]: AA11713: message-id=<9304121725.AA23528@mailgate.roche.com>
Apr 12 13:12:23 nx1 sendmail[11925]: AA11925: message-id=<9304121543.AA27844@ecuanex.ec>
Apr 12 14:08:24 nx1 sendmail[12186]: AA12186: message-id=<Pine.3.05.9304121206.A860-9100000@otter.biochem.ubc.ca>
Apr 13 04:23:25 nx1 sendmail[14498]: AA14498: message-id=<9304130917.AA10902@decnet.sunet.se>
Apr 13 07:23:54 nx1 sendmail[15129]: AA15129: message-id=<9304131221.AA03437@helix.nih.gov>
Apr 13 15:53:49 nx1 sendmail[17024]: AA17024: message-id=<9304132100.AA02321@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 13 15:55:59 nx1 sendmail[17069]: AA17069: message-id=<199304132053.AA17020@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Apr 14 02:56:52 nx1 sendmail[18754]: AA18754: message-id=<01GWZI5EGUF69AN5E4@vx.cis.umn.edu>
Apr 14 11:00:55 nx1 sendmail[20462]: AA20462: message-id=<9304141607.AA03405@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 14 13:01:58 nx1 sendmail[21115]: AA21115: message-id=<9304141809.AA03728@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 14 13:21:27 nx1 sendmail[21368]: AA21368: message-id= <9304141414.aa23625@synapse.umdnj.edu>
Apr 14 13:28:36 nx1 sendmail[21446]: AA21446: message-id=<9304141832.AA03774@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 14 13:38:55 nx1 sendmail[21551]: AA21551: from=<nih-image@soils.umn.edu>, size=948, class=0, received from localhost (127.0.0.1)
Apr 15 16:36:27 nx1 sendmail[26800]: AA26800: message-id=<9304152143.AA05509@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 15 17:02:53 nx1 sendmail[26989]: AA26989: message-id=<9304152209.AA05550@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Apr 15 17:45:28 nx1 sendmail[27222]: AA27222: message-id=<Pine.3.05z.9304151508.A23912-a100000@carson.u.washington.edu>
Apr 16 01:56:30 nx1 sendmail[29000]: AA29000: to="|IFS=' ';exec /usr/local/src/procmail-2.81/new/procmail -t #jladwig", delay=00:00:08, stat=Sent, mailer=prog
Apr 16 02:17:04 nx1 sendmail[29098]: AA29098: message-id=<01GX2LYRGAKY0002UK@amc.uva.nl>
========================================================================

This is the only bounce I've gotten for you within the last week:

========================================================================
From: PMDF Mail Server <postmaster@HEARNVAX.nic.SURFnet.nl>
To: postmaster@HEARNVAX.nic.SURFnet.nl, owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Undeliverable mail: SMTP delivery failure
Date: 14 Apr 1993 10:15:02 +0100 (MET)
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary (ID UHftzv1n3M2EQyoKdv9Ceg)"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


--Boundary (ID UHftzv1n3M2EQyoKdv9Ceg)

The message could not be delivered to:

Addressee: jonker@amc.uva.nl
Reason: Illegal host/domain name found.


--Boundary (ID UHftzv1n3M2EQyoKdv9Ceg)
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From: dd <RPRDANI%TECHNION.BITNET@mail.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: On-line PLOT
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Thanks, Wayne I'll try to Macro the On-line "Brightness vs time" plot.

danni


--Boundary (ID UHftzv1n3M2EQyoKdv9Ceg)--
========================================================================


From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Fri Apr 16 06:45:18 1993
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 11:45:18 CDT
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9304161645.AA05669@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: subscribe address, in the docs? moderated list?
In-Reply-To: JONKER@amc.uva.nl's message <01GX2LYRGAKY0002UK@amc.uva.nl> of 16 April 1993
References: <01GX2LYRGAKY0002UK@amc.uva.nl>

JONKER@amc.uva.nl <JONKER@amc.uva.nl> writes on 16 April 1993 at 02:14:12 -0500

 > Is this the proper address to do the subscription (asking for a
 > fellow user)

My standard "so you're trying to subscribe" posting:

========================================================================
If you are trying to subscribe to the list, send the following as the
*first* line of a message to "listserv@soils.umn.edu"

sub nih-image Your Name

Where Your Name is your real (English) given name.

Your email address will be deciphered by the listserv software.

    -jml	NIH-Image list administrator.
========================================================================

 > If the list is moderated, I don't expect this message to appear
 > on the list, but I would like to receive an acknowledge of receipt,
 > to prevent a catch-22.

You can control whether you see copies of your own postings via the

    set nih-image mail ack
or
    set nih-image mail noack

control messages, sent to "listserv@soils.umn.edu".


 > Is the list moderated, or should I presume that my message has
 > gone oblivious if I don't find it in the mailing after a
 > few days (which has happened lately)

This list is not moderated.  If you have your subscription set to see
your own posts (which is the default subscription configuration), and
you don't see the message back in a fairly short time, you may
assume that it didn't make the list.  It is possible for the
listserver software to be down for a short while, or the machine which
hosts it, but both have been *very* reliable.


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Fri Apr 16 09:24:10 1993
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To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Personal engineering mag

About a month ago, an editor of personal engineering magazine requested a
paper on Image through this net. I sent him email asking more details, but
he never replied. Did anyone ever get in touch with the guy?

Mark


From catherine_tsao@maca.sarnoff.com  Fri Apr 16 12:33:32 1993
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Date: 16 Apr 1993 13:23:10 U
From: "Catherine Tsao" <catherine_tsao@maca.sarnoff.com>
Subject: unsibscribe NIH-IMAGE
To: "nih image" <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

 unsibscribe NIH-IMAGE
unsibscribe NIH-IMAG



From enater@soils.umn.edu  Fri Apr 16 09:34:22 1993
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In-Reply-To: <9304161732.AA28544@nova> from "Catherine Tsao" at Apr 16, 93 12:33:45 pm
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Catherine -

> 
>  unsibscribe NIH-IMAGE
> unsibscribe NIH-IMAG
> 
> 
> 

Unsuscribe messages should be sent to:  LISTSERV@soils.umn.edu.
(they also need to be spelled correctly   :-).


Ed



From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Apr 16 15:49:25 1993
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 15:49:25 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Ratio Imaging System

ImproVision has a ratio imaging package that does ratio imaging with full
support for real-time averaging, filter wheel control, etc.
 
The package is called "ionVision" and is developed and distributed by:
 
    ImproVision
    Barclays Venture Centre, University of Warwick Science Park
    Sir William Lyons Road, Coventry, UK  CV4 7EZ
    (011)44-203-692229
 
Quoting from their promotional material:
 
"ionVision is an intracellular ion analysis system suitable for use with
fluorescence dyes such as Fura-2, BCECF, Indo-1, etc.
 
The system software allows control of a variety of external devices, eg,
fast filter changers, electronic shutters, strobes, microscope stages,
focus controls and integrating cameras.
 
ionVision allows the acquisition of image sequences at video rates and will
store the images to SmartStore, RAM, or Hard Disc.
 
ionVision will enhance, process, and ratio the image sequences to produce a
calibrated movie which can be animated or quantitated to produce charts of
ion concentration changes as a function of time."
 
This package uses Perceptics PixelTools boards to achieve the real-time
video processing rates.  Perceptics (Roger Leach) can supply limited
information about the package if ImproVision cannot be reached.  Their
phone number is (615)966-9200.

--wayne


From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Fri Apr 16 21:54:05 1993
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Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 93 21:54:05 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930416215405.22c1817c@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: RE: Ratio Imaging System
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

   Does the ImproVision system work on the Mac? 

			HJKarten

From WETZEL@metro.bst.rochester.edu  Fri Apr 16 14:25:00 1993
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 18:25 EDT
From: WETZEL@metro.bst.rochester.edu
Subject: NIH Image and X-Y stage
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GX378FRIO099DGZN@METRO>
X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"

Does anybody have a macro that permits NIH Image to work with
an X-Y stage driver such as an LEP?

			DM Wetzel

From nas16@phy.cam.ac.uk  Sat Apr 17 00:07:35 1993
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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 00:07:35 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: nas16@phy.cam.ac.uk (Nick Safford)
X-Sender: nas16@wcse0.phy.cam.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Greyscale erosion


>Image does erosion and dilation under the binary menu.

Ah, yes, but only on binary images; _greyscale_ erosion is subtly
different, (at least as explained to me in the Visilog manual) and is
useful for detecting local maxima of intensity, regardless of their
absolute brightness. It's very good for distinguishing haloes round cells.
It may be that if I was cleverer I could do the same trick by working with
lots of binary images, each one generated from the original greyscale image
with a different threshold.

Speed is pretty important to me (I have to do a lot of these operations on
a lot of images) so ideally I'm looking for some nice fast pascal.

(It's an indication of my enthusiasm for Image that I still want to use it
despite having $6000 worth of Visilog - which is what it costs over here -
even though Visilog does, in principle, do all the things I need!)



Nick Safford             0223 337319
Cavendish Lab
Madingley Rd
Cambridge
UK  CB3 0HE


From STELZER@EMBL-Heidelberg.DE  Sat Apr 17 11:08:53 1993
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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 10:08:53 +0100
From: STELZER@EMBL-Heidelberg.DE
Subject: Hamamatsu Frame Grabbers
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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Dear NIH Imagers!!
Hamamatsu is offering frame grabber boards for the Macintosh
line. Is anybody out there with some experience and are they
supported by NIH image??
Thank You
Ernst Stelzer
Stelzer@EMBL-Heidelberg.DE

From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Sat Apr 17 15:50:47 1993
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Date:    Sat, 17 Apr 93 15:50:47 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930417155047.20402db6@m5.sdsc.edu>
Subject: RE: Hamamatsu Frame Grabbers
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

Do you have an further details on the Hamamatsu Frame Grabbers 
for the Mac? 16 bit? 1,000 line? Frames/sec?
				HJ Karten

From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Mon Apr 19 04:43:45 1993
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 08:43:45 -0400
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Re: Greyscale erosion


> _greyscale_ erosion is subtly
>different, (at least as explained to me in the Visilog manual) and is
>useful for detecting local maxima of intensity, regardless of their
>absolute brightness. It's very good for distinguishing haloes round cells.

Have you tried laplacian and gradient convolutions, or possibly others?
say like this or in a bigger matrix (4x4 or larger):

-1 -1 -1
-1 +8 -1
-1 -1 -1

You could also make gradient operations along lines of the image detect
local maxima. Perform something like -1,0,0,4,0,0,-1, or just fine tune
it to whatever works. The beauty of image processing is that all the stuff
in books may only get you started, then you just heuristically pick 
something and make it work better. Maybe anyway.

Mark


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Mon Apr 19 08:40:53 1993
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 08:40:53 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: RE: Ratio Imaging System and frame grabber plug-ins

>   Does the ImproVision system work on the Mac? 

It is my understanding that it is a Mac based system. I get the information
about it from Paul Whalen of Perceptics, who was afraid to post it for fear
of being accused of commercialism.

Paul also sent me a Photoshop plug-in he wrote for their PixelPipe frame
grabber card and it seems to work fine with the Image 1.50 beta. This is
the first frame grabber known to work with Image  using the new plug-in
interface. Mark Vivino tried RasterOps' plug-in for their frame grabber
cards, but has not been able to get it to work. The problem seems to be
that the RasterOps plug-in insists on running in 24-bit mode and Image
likes to run in 8-bit mode. The obvious work-around, which Mark hasn't
tried yet, is to use two monitors, one for the RasterOps card running in
24-bit mode, and one for Image running in 8-bit mode.

--wayne


From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be  Tue Apr 20 06:41:32 1993
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From: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be (Jacques VAN HELDEN)
Message-Id: <9304201240.AA18626@dec5.ulb.ac.be.ulb.ac.be>
Subject: Re: NIH Image and X-Y stage
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 13:40:44 WET DST
In-Reply-To: <01GX378FRIO099DGZN@METRO>; from "WETZEL%metro.bst.rochester.edu@mail.tc.umn.edu" at Apr 16, 93 5:29 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

>Does anybody have a macro that permits NIH Image to work with
>an X-Y stage driver such as an LEP?

                        DM Wetzel

There is an English society, Improvision, which adapted NIH-image for
the control of peripheral such as filter wheel, XYZ stage driver, ...
Their address is 
ImproVision
Image Processing& Video Co Ltd
Barclay  Venture center
University of Warwick Science Park
St Williams Lyons Road
Coventry CV4 7EZ
Tel: (44)  203 692229
Fax: (44) 203 690091

By the way, I am personnaly looking for XYZ stage drivers. Could you
indicate me the address(es) of suppliers that you found ?
Thank you.

*  Jacques van Helden
*  Universite Libre de Bruxelles
*  Service de Neurobiologie
*  tel: (32) 2 650 99 41
*  fax: (32) 2 650 97 44
*  e-mail: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be


From set@eru.mt.luth.se  Tue Apr 20 18:16:29 1993
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 16:16:29 +0200
Message-Id: <199304201416.AA01252@eru.mt.luth.se>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg)
Subject: PAL/NTSC version of Image 1.49 for b-test.
X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable

In our application for Image we are looking at particles in flow, and tryes
to track a specific particle trough images in a stack. As we could have
high flow rates we tried to decreesed "delay between frames" and saw that
this delay was always a multipel of 1/60 sec. And as we in europe are
working with PAL system 25 Frames a second this coused an non equidistant
time delay at 5 or more frames a second. With help from Wane and Apple we
could solve this problem. 
The new version of Image1.49.PAL/NTSC are awalible at contrib/image/pub @
zippy.nimh.nih.gov if anyone are interested, and if you found any bug
please report to me.

I did by misstake send it as Image1.50b1, if system.manger at zippy would
kind to rename it to for example Image1.49.PAL/NTSC I would be wery
greatfull since it's a not any official version. And this could couse some
problem with rev. repports.

----- Sven Erik Tiberg
Sven-Erik Tiberg 
Div. of energy / mashineenginnering 
Lulea University of Technology
Lulea Sweden
email set@eru.mt.luth.se
Fax. S-(0)920-91047
Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638



From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU  Wed Apr 21 07:58:01 1993
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: NU200 Board

Has anyone had any experience with the NU200 board?  There is some question
about its use for digitizing non-NTSC frame formats, provided to it by CCD
arrays. 
 - David Salzman

From kyzy@rice.edu  Wed Apr 21 08:46:02 1993
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Message-Id: <9304211846.AA20597@moe.rice.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: kyzy@rice.edu
Subject: Re: NIH Image and X-Y stage


>>Does anybody have a macro that permits NIH Image to work with
>>an X-Y stage driver such as an LEP?

Here is a different approach that might interest some people. We are using
a second Mac to control an X-Y-Z LEP motorized stage. This Mac SE runs a
LabView 2.1 program we developed. It can move the stage to several
user-specified positions and trigger image acquisition once every move is
completed (another Mac running Image acquires the images), it opens and
closes motorized diaphragms, opens and closes solenoid valves (gas feed to
incubator) and monitors the temperature of the stage incubator. Using two
Macs may sound like overkill, but we had an old Mac lying around and the
LabView program gives us more flexibility and functionality. 


------------------------------------

Prof. Kyriacos Zygourakis
Dept. of Chemical Engineering
Rice University
Houston, Texas 77251-1892

Phone: (713) 527-8750 Ext. 3509
FAX:   (713) 285-5478

------------------------------------




From JONKER@amc.uva.nl  Mon Apr 22 10:32:08 1993
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Date: 22 Apr 1993 09:32:08 +0100 (MET)
From: JONKER@amc.uva.nl
Subject: Re: NU200 Board
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GXB2AAI1PE0002HN@amc.uva.nl>
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Yes, I have used the Nu200 board once to capture images from a
Photometrics camera (1315x1017 pixel slow scan CCD camera).
It can output either 16 bit propretary format or 8 bit (scaled

From the captured 12 or 14 bit values) tiff format. The
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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 01:32:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: tom jovin <tom@otter.biochem.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: NU200 Board
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
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We too use the Nu200 board routinely with a Photometrics Series 200 camera
(large format Kodak chip). There are a few bugs, i.e. external trigger
does not work but that may be a problem with firmware revisions. I am not
aware that the board is used with cameras from any other company. Without
more documentatino, it would be hard to adapt, is my guess.
   Tom Jovin




From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu  Thu Apr 22 06:55:31 1993
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Date:     Thu, 22 Apr 93 10:55:31 EDT
From: "Herbert M. Geller" <geller@synapse.umdnj.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject:  Hamamatsu Frame Grabber
Message-Id:  <9304221055.aa02595@synapse.umdnj.edu>

	I just spoke to Hamamatsu, located in NJ, about their frame
grabber board.  It seems like a generic RS-170/CCIR frame grabber,
at least from an oral description.  I asked the technical person
to send me some information and I'll post anything if it seems
special, or if there I widespread interest I'll summarize the specs.

Herb Geller


From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu  Thu Apr 22 08:21:14 1993
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From: "Herbert M. Geller" <geller@synapse.umdnj.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject:  Re:  Hamamatsu Frame Grabber
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Interestingly, after I posted my information, I got a call back

From the Tech Rep, who asked where I heard about the frame grabber.
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From: Michael Cammer <cammer@aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Ektron 1412 CCD camera
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Does anybody have any experience with this equipment?
cammer@aecom.yu.edu




From SMIT@CABO.AGRO.NL  Tue Apr 23 15:00:00 1993
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review


From msachs@admin.ogi.edu  Fri Apr 23 06:14:09 1993
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From: msachs@admin.ogi.edu (Matthew Sachs)
Subject: Re: 

>review

??
Recieved message
Matthew Sachs


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>review

??
Recieved message
Matthew Sachs

Sorry, my mistake
Bert

From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Mon Apr 26 07:30:18 1993
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 12:30:18 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Very accurate time measurements in Image
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I have just posted source for updates to 1.49 into /pub/image/contrib on
zippy.nimh.nih.gov, file ImageTimer.sit.hqx, which provide the ability to
use the time manager to measure elapsed time in microseconds (resolution is
around 25 microseconds), and to program a function is user.p which is
executed on the interrupt level with very accurate timing (assuming that no
other interrupt routines on your Mac are hogging time).  These changes also
modify the
UserCode macro procedure to make unused parameters optional, and to allow
the use of a string instead of an integer as the first argument.

Also, two new macro FUNCTIONS (not procedures), UserFunc and UserStr,
are defined, which return a real and a string result, respectively.
Both take one string selector argument and 3 optional numeric parameters.

Some sample code to use the time manager is in user.p, and can be invoked

From macros via UserCode('alloctimer'), UserCode('starttimer',1.005), etc.
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 93 21:36 EDT
From: Barr Kum <SBK111@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject: Single image at a time to VCR to make movie
To: nih-image@soils.umn.Edu
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Sometime back I posted a query requesting help on recording a single image at 
a time onto a VCR.  I did recieve replies which are appended at the end.  I did manage to make a movie sequence by 
recording each image in this manner. This method bypasses the memory 
constraint when using animations on the computer.

Equipment used was
1) Mac II cx
2) Syscom Mediator Scan convertor 
3) Nec PC VCR (serial port controllable)
Software
NIH Image 1.49

Multiple images of contour plots were made on a workstation saved in Tiff 
format and telneted onto the Mac.  Caution if you can generate PICT files use 
them as they use up less space.  Out of the 600 images generated there was 
space for only 250 on a disk with 80 MB free space. 
The VCR was hooked up to the video output via scan convertor. Another line connecting VCR serial port and Mac serial was used to control VCR actions from the Mac.  A macro written in NIH image was then used to crontrol the action of the VCR.  Each image w
called up.
The menu bar etc were visible in the movie.  Wayne Rasband has said that he 
will consider having a Macro call for PHOTOMODE.  This should solve that 
problem.  
For some reason if a Pause command was sent to the VCR insted of a STOP the syncronisation got mixed up. Recording would occur when the image was being closed etc.  
Ive given the Macro used below. 

The general outline of the macro is as follows
1) Call up a image file
2) Send message to VCR via serial port to start recording
3) Time a sec (or any other)
4) Send message to VCR to stop recording
5) close file, loop

What is needed is to have photomode between 1 and 2, where the whole
Image fills the screen.

I had to do this thru a macro as i was sending 250 images to the VCR.
However f you are sending only a couple you could load the image, go into
photomode and have a macro that will can be activated by command keys to
send message to VCR to start recording and stop after fixed time.

Hope this helps

Sereno Barr-Kumarakulasinghe
Marine Sciences Research Center
SUNY @ Stony Brook
NY 11794-5000
e-mail: sbarrkum@csserv1.ic.sunysb.edu
        sbk111@msrc.sunysb.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------
macro 'FileToVCR';
var
linefeed,return,r,c,p,s,t,crlf,rc, ps,st,file:string;
i:integer;
begin
  r:=chr(82);
  c:=chr(67);
  p:=chr(80);
  s:=chr(83);
   t:=chr(84);
  linefeed:=chr(10);
  return:=chr(13);
  crlf:=concat(return,linefeed);
  rc:=concat(r,c,crlf);
  ps:=concat(p,s,crlf)
  st:=concat(s,t,crlf)
  RequiresVersion(1.48);
  OpenSerial('1200 baud,no parity,eight data,one stop');
    for i:=1 to 275 do begin
    SetImport('TIFF');
    Import('Temt', i:3)
   {photo Mode should be included here when available}
   PutSerial(rc);
    Wait(4);
   PutSerial(st);
  Wait(3);}
  close;
  Beep;
  end
end;

-----------------------------------------------------------

From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov

Barr Kum writes:
>I need to know of a way to write images from a window to a videotape on a
>VCR. We've got a NEC VCR that is supposed to be capable of advancing frame 
>by frame.


You have a number of options, depending on your budget and requirements you
might be able to do the job with next to nothing, or you might need fairly
big bucks.

Option 1) Get access to a quadra. The quadra has built in video. You will
need to make or buy a cable that goes from the quadra to BNC. Read trhe
document:
 quadra_video.txt in /pub/image/documents of zippy.nimh.nih.gov. I might
also be able to send you a schematic. YOU ****MUST**** USE APPLE
CONVOLUTION MODE in the monitors control panal to get decent video. You
will only get grayscale.

Option 2) (not recommended) Use a RasterOps video expander. Its cheap (and
its also inexpensive). It does a worse job than the quadra video.

Option 3) Buy a radius video vision, get color and decent video. High cost.


For all the above options you can use the serial port macro calls to
advance your vcr, if the vcr is that "smart" a vcr.

Mark
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: kartenh@sdsc.edu

Another option is the Scion NTSC output card, for about $595.?[

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	D1887@AppleLink.Apple.Com 
FROM:   Bonnie Polesky
        D1887
 
SUB:    Mac to VCR
 
Dear Mr. Kum:
 
In response to your inquiry of writing images from a Mac window to a VCR, Scion
Corporation offers a product, the TV-3, which is capable of outputing grayscale
images from a version of NIH Image in just this way. The TV-3 converts the
image contained in its memory buffer into an RS-170 video signal for outputting
to devices such as video tape recorders and video printers.  The TV-3 sells for
$595 and is available direct from Scion.
 
If you wish to receive literature on the TV-3, please forward your address and
fax number to us.  Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions.
 
Sincerely,
 
Bonnie Polesky
Director, Sales & Marketing

=============================================================================== 

From:	IN%"mvivino@helix.nih.Gov"  8-APR-1993 15:18:16.84
Subj:	RE: Mac to VCR (using a quadra 950)

>From what youve said and going thru the document quadra..at zippy... it looks
>like color output can be written onto video-tape. However how do I get about
>sending only what is in a window to the vcr  as against the whole screen.
>Any advice really welcome.

I was pretty sure it was only grayscale. What you need to do is first make
the cable. I have uploaded a schematic to zippy.nimh.nih.gov in the
pub/image/contrib directory.

Then to output just the image you can do one of two things:
1) Have only the cable running as video and load the image into the Image
program. Then select Photomode.
2) Use two monitors, one from the cable the other from a built in video
card (use this as monitor one). Then make your image scaled as large as
monitor two.

Mark

============================================================================ 



From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Apr 27 17:02:26 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 17:02:26 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: 1.50 beta with plug-in support
Cc: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov

I have uploaded a new beta version of Image to zippy.nimh.nih.gov that
features support for Photoshop compatible acquisition plug-ins. Plug-in are
accessed using a new command in the File menu called Acquire. I have
successfully tested plug-ins for the LaCie SilverScanner, the Kodak DCS-200
digital camera, and the Perceptics PixelBuffer frame grabber. The
PixelBuffer plug-in is available from the new plug-ins directory on Zippy.
It was contributed, including C source, by Paul Whalen of Perceptics.

Image can acquire 8-bit grayscale, 8-bit indexed color, and 24-bit color
images via plug-ins. 24-bit color images are stored in three slice stacks
and displayed using 8-bit indexed color, similar to the way the Capture
Color command works.

V1.50 also has a new macro command for supporting plug-ins. It has the form
Acquire('plug-in name'). Full path names such as 'HD400:Plug-ins:Kodak
DCS-200' are allowed.

V1.50 also fixes a problem that sometimes caused the Skeletonize routine to
never complete.

--wayne


From roper@lamar.ColoState.EDU  Tue Apr 27 11:25:35 1993
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: roper@lamar.ColoState.EDU
Subject: Re: 1.50 beta with plug-in support

The news about acquiring images from the Kodak DCS 200 camera into Image
1.50 beta is great news!  I am using a Kodak DCS 200 and am VERY impressed
with the images.  I import images into PageMaker, add labels, arrows,
asterisks etc, and FTP the final figure to our campus color (Tektronix
Phaser IISD) or B/W (linotronics) printer, a few buildings away. I can
produce publication-quality figures in minutes rather than days via
conventional printing and rub-on lettering (about half of which get rubbed
off!). And it's cheaper (~$3/ 8x10 print). The only drag is that the Kodak
DCS 200 does not yet fit directly onto my Zeiss Axiophot.  The Kodak DCS
200 uses a Nikon bayonet mount.  And Zeiss charges an arm and a leg for the
appropriate adapters to get the Kodak camera to fit onto their 'scope.

Does anyone have experience with Zeiss's ZVS Video camera system that is
built around an Optronics LX-450A RGB remote-head microscope camera?  I was
impressed with its ability to acquire bright and low light level images
(e.g., immunocytochemistry).  At $7K, it is about halfway in cost between a
Sony color video camera (not anywhere near as sensitive) and SIT or cooled
CCD cameras. I'd like some seasoned advice prior to laying down the bucks,
though.

-Steve Roper
--------------------------------------------
Stephen Roper, Professor of Anatomy and Neurobiology,
Colorado State University, Ft. Collins CO 80523 
INTERNET: Roper@Lamar.ColoState.Edu
FAX:(303) 491-7907
PHONE: (303) 491-7808


From tom@otter.biochem.ubc.ca  Tue Apr 27 10:48:11 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 17:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: tom jovin <tom@otter.biochem.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: 1.50 beta with plug-in support
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
In-Reply-To: <9304272325.AA60473@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
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 re Steve Roper's request about cameras:

You may wisht o look into the Microimager made by Xillix in Vancouver. 10
and 12-bit versions using the large Kodak chip. Operates at up to 8
Megapixels/s readout rate with very good dynamic range and SNR.

     tom jovin




From crc@leicester.ac.uk  Wed Apr 28 04:18:44 1993
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From: "Dr C. Cane" <crc@leicester.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <27115.9304280918@irix.le.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Zeiss Camera
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 10:18:53 BST
In-Reply-To: <9304272325.AA60473@lamar.ColoState.EDU>; from "roper" at Apr 27, 93 6:25 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0 (LUT)]

We had a Zeiss RGB camera on demo but wern't very impressed.  It was not as
sensitive as we hoped.  If you need multicolour and sensitivity the only way to
go is to get a SIT or cooled CCD and capture one image for each colour then
superimpose them using Image or Photoshop (I find this better as it gives more
control over colour balance & you can easily boost eg. red relative to green).
Ive got a Hamamatsu C2400 SIT camera which is pre-processed by an Argus 10
before capturing the image on the Mac.  I find this set-up sensitive enough for
my applications, and routinely use image superimposition to do multimode
imaging.  I hope these comments are useful.

Chris Cane, Dept of Biochemistry, University of Leicester, Leicester, LE1
7RH., UK. Tel +44 533 523480 Fax +44 533 523369.


From roper@lamar.ColoState.EDU  Wed Apr 28 03:23:25 1993
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From: roper@lamar.ColoState.EDU
Subject: Re: Zeiss Camera

Chris

        Thanks for the feedback.  Do you recall about how much you paid for
the Hamamatsu SIT camera?

-Steve
--------------------------------------------
Stephen Roper, Professor of Anatomy and Neurobiology,
Colorado State University, Ft. Collins CO 80523 
INTERNET: Roper@Lamar.ColoState.Edu
FAX:(303) 491-7907
PHONE: (303) 491-7808


From hart@actin.rutgers.edu  Tue Apr 27 08:33:22 1993
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From: Ronald P. Hart <hart@actin.rutgers.edu>
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

help

From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Thu Apr 29 04:04:29 1993
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 29 Apr 1993 09:04:30 EDT
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:04:29 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Straw Poll:  Create comp.sys.mac.scitech?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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There is currently a discussion in news.groups regarding the possible
creation of a Usenet newsgroup comp.sys.mac.scitech.  Generally, the
opponents of the group point out that there already exists a group
sci.comp-aided which has essentially no traffic, and should be used
instead.  As I recall, the proposers will archive the group and include
an archive of software.  The RFD has expired at my Usenet server, so
I can't include a copy.  I will post a request that it be reposted.

Interested readers of the NIH Image mailing list, please answer this
poll by entering Y or N at the end of each line:

Read some Usenet groups 
Read sci.image.processing 
Read comp.sys.mac.programmer 
Read comp.sys.mac.applications 
Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech 
Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic 
Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV 
If so, how would you vote? 

--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From WETZEL@metro.bst.rochester.edu  Thu Apr 29 05:48:00 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:48 EDT
From: WETZEL@metro.bst.rochester.edu
Subject: Re: Straw Poll:  Create comp.sys.mac.scitech?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GXKUZ852M899DKN4@METRO>
X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"


Read some Usenet groups: y

Read sci.image.processing: no

Read comp.sys.mac.programmer: no

Read comp.sys.mac.applications: yes

Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech: yes

Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic: no

Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV: yes

If so, how would you vote?: yes

From lake@rcw004.dnet.bp.com  Thu Apr 29 05:26:41 1993
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Message-Id: <9304291326.AA01141@rcwi01.rcw.bp.com>
From: lake@rcw004.dnet.bp.com
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: RE: Straw Poll:  Create comp.sys.mac.scitech?

From:	RCWI01::"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" 29-APR-1993 09:07:35.21
To:	Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
CC:	
Subj:	Straw Poll:  Create comp.sys.mac.scitech?

There is currently a discussion in news.groups regarding the possible
creation of a Usenet newsgroup comp.sys.mac.scitech.  Generally, the
opponents of the group point out that there already exists a group
sci.comp-aided which has essentially no traffic, and should be used
instead.  As I recall, the proposers will archive the group and include
an archive of software.  The RFD has expired at my Usenet server, so
I can't include a copy.  I will post a request that it be reposted.

Interested readers of the NIH Image mailing list, please answer this
poll by entering Y or N at the end of each line:

Read some Usenet groups Y
Read sci.image.processing Y 
Read comp.sys.mac.programmer N
Read comp.sys.mac.applications  SOMETIMES 
Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech Y
Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic ? 
Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV Y
If so, how would you vote? Y

--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003



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From janning@vnwz01.uni-muenster.de  Thu Apr 29 17:55:48 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 15:55:48 +0200
From: "W. Janning, Allgemeine Zoologie & Genetik, Muenster"
      <janning@vnwz01.uni-muenster.de>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: janning@vnwz01.uni-muenster.de
Message-Id: <0096BC2F.37599160.3830@vnwz01.uni-muenster.de>
Subject: RE: Straw Poll:  Create comp.sys.mac.scitech?

Read some Usenet groups: N
Read sci.image.processing
Read comp.sys.mac.programmer
Read comp.sys.mac.applications
Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech
Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic
Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV: N
If so, how would you vote?


From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Thu Apr 29 09:04:00 1993
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Message-Id: <199304291404.AA03249@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Date: 29 Apr 1993 09:52:04 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Straw Poll replies
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ Straw Poll replies
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
I THINK that Ed maybe wants these replies sent to him and not the whole mailing
list?  I think that would be more efficient in the long run.
Jfm.



From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Thu Apr 29 09:09:49 1993
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Message-Id: <199304291409.AA03369@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Date: 29 Apr 1993 10:10:58 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Image FFT
To: "NIH Image Mailing List" <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

John Mansfield
North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Lab
University of Michigan
2455 Hayward
Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or
John.F.Mansfield@umich.edu                                         Time: 10:04
                                                                   
Date:4/29/93
                                                  NC EMAL
Subject:  Image FFT
The FHT modifications to Image that Arlo Reeves did a few years ago have rpoved
invaluable to us.  We incorporated them into our own version of Image that
measured the thickness of TEM samples by a diffraction technique (CBED). 
Whenever Wayne came out with a new version we tried to make sure our changes
could be incorporated.  That worked fine from version 1.28 to 1.35 but we
couldnt get 1.36 to work.  The guy who was working with me and was a better
programmer than I graduated and so we have never upgraded our code past 1.35. 
We would however, like the functionality of the later versions.  I thought I
saw a version of 1.47 or 9 that had the FHT stuff included in it?  Is the
source available for that?  It was the FHT stuff that was giving us the most
problems in the upgrade since we didnt originally code that!!  I would like to
try and get Microscopy/FFT Image working with version 1.50 if possible.
So in summary, if you know of the whereabouts of the source code for Arlo's
revisions modified for version 1.4 or above please let me know.

ADVthanks a bunchANCE

John Mansfield.



From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu Apr 29 09:13:24 1993
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	id AA21654; Thu, 29 Apr 93 10:24:29 -0400
Message-Id: <9304291424.AA21654@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:13:24 +0000
To: root@physix.mta.ca (Stewart Walker)
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: 1.50 beta & RasterOps with plug-in support
Cc: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

>Tried out the image 1.50b32 beta from zippy with the Rasterops 24STV and 2
>monitors, one at 24 bit colour, the other at 8 bit grey. The PhotoShop
>plug-in window comes up and the buttons to adjust PAL,NTSC,SECAM, & colour
>work. If I select 640 x 480 or larger size, the setting takes place, and
>the black elements of the dialog box overlay the picture,but then the
>buttons stop functioning and I get beeps wherever I click. The returnkey
>still activates Grab.
> 
>No matter what format the image is in, when I activate grab, the program
>hangs after opening an appropriately-sized window called RGB 3/3 on the 256
>grey level monitor. the words repeat loop appear in the values window. I
>kill the program with command-option-esc.

I am buying a Rasterops 24STV card and expect to be able to fix this bug
when I have the card and I am able to do some testing.

--wayne


From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Thu Apr 29 09:25:07 1993
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Message-Id: <199304291425.AA03543@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Date: 29 Apr 1993 10:25:12 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: 1.50 beta & Photo-CD plug-i
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ 1.50 beta & Photo-CD plug-in
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
I tried out Image 1.50beta32 with the Photo-CD plugin and get an alert that
says that the plug-in requires Photoshop 2.0.  Too bad :-(.




From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu Apr 29 09:32:32 1993
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	id AA21700; Thu, 29 Apr 93 10:43:37 -0400
Message-Id: <9304291443.AA21700@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:32:32 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: 1.50 beta & Photo-CD plug-i

>I tried out Image 1.50beta32 with the Photo-CD plugin and get an alert that
>says that the plug-in requires Photoshop 2.0.  Too bad :-(.

I will ask my contact at Kodak how the Photo-CD plug-in it knows what
version of Photoshop it's talking to and why it thinks it needs Photoshop
2.0.

--wayne


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu Apr 29 09:40:59 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:40:59 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Image FFT

Perceptics added Arlo Reeves' FFT routines to Image/VDM 1.44, which is
available from zippy.nimh.nih.gov, in the image-spinoffs directory. The
source code, however, is not on Zippy, but perhaps someone can talk them
into making it available. The main problem with Arlo's FFT code is that it
is written in assembler, and 68000 assembler code doesn't seem to have much
of a future with the Power/PC coming.

--wayne


From dlange@cern.ce.uiuc.edu  Thu Apr 29 15:46:20 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:46:20 +0600 (CST)
From: "David A. Lange" <dlange@cern.ce.uiuc.edu>
Subject: RE: Straw Poll: Create comp.sys.mac.scitech?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
In-Reply-To: <9304291326.AA01141@rcwi01.rcw.bp.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.03.9304290919.A3445-a100000@cern11.ce.uiuc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 Read some Usenet groups Y
 Read sci.image.processing Y 
 Read comp.sys.mac.programmer N
 Read comp.sys.mac.applications  N 
 Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech Y
 Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic ? maybe
 Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV Y
 If so, how would you vote? Y

------------------------------------------------------------------------
David A. Lange                           Department of Civil Engineering
                                                  University of Illinois
Email: dlange@cern.ce.uiuc.edu                         2207 NCEL, MC-250
Phone:  217-333-4816                              Urbana, IL  61801-2352
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com  Thu Apr 29 04:57:08 1993
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Message-Id: <9304291453.AA19043@eredns.erenj.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:57:08 -0500
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com

>Read some Usenet groups Y
>Read sci.image.processing Y
>Read comp.sys.mac.programmer N
>Read comp.sys.mac.applications N
>Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech N
>Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic 
>Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV N
>If so, how would you vote? 
===========================================================================
All thoughts expressed are mine and are not intended to reflect the
opinions of my employer. (disclaimer)

       	        	       	Al Ruppert  afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com
        	       	       	(908) 730-2979


From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Thu Apr 29 09:52:11 1993
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Return-Path: <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <199304291452.AA03875@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Date: 29 Apr 1993 10:52:59 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Image FFT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ RE>>Image FFT
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
The good thing about the PowerPC is that we should be able to use routines like
the 2D FFT from Numerical Recipes and get quite good turnaround times!!  I was
trying to get Apple to let us try out one of the New Cyclone machines and try
and use the DSP to do FFTs fast, but they seem to be ignoring my request. 
Anyone tried one out?
Wayne, what is the future for Image in the PowerPC world?
Are you going to port it?  I guess you have to buy an RS/6000 at the moment to
try compiling code!

--------------------------------------
Date: 4/29/93 10:44
To: John Mansfield
From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Perceptics added Arlo Reeves' FFT routines to Image/VDM 1.44, which is
available from zippy.nimh.nih.gov, in the image-spinoffs directory. The
source code, however, is not on Zippy, but perhaps someone can talk them
into making it available. The main problem with Arlo's FFT code is that it
is written in assembler, and 68000 assembler code doesn't seem to have much
of a future with the Power/PC coming.

--wayne



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Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: wayne%zippy.nimh.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu (Wayne Rasband)
To: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Image FFT





From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Thu Apr 29 05:56:09 1993
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	id AA03921; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:55:03 -0500
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 (PMDF V4.2-10 #2884) id <01GXKXBIWEOW000HVP@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Thu,
 29 Apr 1993 10:56:10 EDT
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 10:56:09 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Re: Image FFT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GXKXBJ3WR6000HVP@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>
X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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>We would however, like the functionality of the later versions.  I thought I
>saw a version of 1.47 or 9 that had the FHT stuff included in it?  Is the
>source available for that?  It was the FHT stuff that was giving us the most
>problems in the upgrade since we didnt originally code that!!  I would like to
>try and get Microscopy/FFT Image working with version 1.50 if possible.
>So in summary, if you know of the whereabouts of the source code for Arlo's
>revisions modified for version 1.4 or above please let me know.

Try looking for IMAGE VDM on zippy.  I believe it has the source.  If it
doesn't, let me know.  I have the source and will post it.  Many thanks to
Paul Whalen of Perceptics for making this available.  (The file on zippy is
the self extracting archive I received on a disk from Paul.  I haven't
actually extracted it to see what was in there, but an earlier version
included the source).
The label on the outside of the floppy says "1.44".

BTW, this is a BITNET LISTSERV list, and one of the annoying properties of
LISTSERV is that it sets the REPLY TO header to the list, so that a "reply"
command in e.g. Eudora sets the "to" field to the list.  Everyone should
try to remember that some mailing lists do this, others don't.  I was going
to send this reply to just John Mansfield but it is probably of general
interest.

--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Thu Apr 29 05:18:33 1993
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	id AA15667; Thu, 29 Apr 93 10:18:33 CDT
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 10:18:33 CDT
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9304291518.AA15667@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: LISTSERV software and replies (administrivia) [ was Re: Image FFT]
In-Reply-To: Edward J. Huff's message <01GXKXBJ3WR6000HVP@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> of 29 April 1993
References: <01GXKXBJ3WR6000HVP@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>

Edward J. Huff <huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU > writes on 29 April 1993 at 10:01:59 -0500
 > 
 > BTW, this is a BITNET LISTSERV list, and one of the annoying properties of
 > LISTSERV is that it sets the REPLY TO header to the list, so that a "reply"
 > command in e.g. Eudora sets the "to" field to the list.  Everyone should
 > try to remember that some mailing lists do this, others don't.  I was going
 > to send this reply to just John Mansfield but it is probably of general
 > interest.

It is of general interest, and I'm looking into ways to hack the
software into defaulting to private reply, with CC: to the list.
There is a glitch in this, however, as some mail user agents don't
have a "Reply to all" command, so a lot of replies to public messages
would only go privately.  Even if the user agent does have the
command, a lot of folks don't use it, and even more replies go by
private mail.

This is a classic tradeoff, and it's currently biased in favor of
keeping message traffic public.  Thus the few public replies to an
essentially private poll today.  This hasn't really been a problem to
date, and so I haven't lookd into changing the behavior of the
software very seriously.


BTW - this is *not* a BITNET LISTSERV list, it's run using
      Unix-listserv from Boston University, and runs on a NeXT.


    -jml    NIH-Image mailing list administrator

-- 
	     UMN Department of Soil Science; St. Paul, MN

Internet: john.ladwig@soils.umn.edu             Fidonet: John Ladwig 1:282/341
          jladwig@torpedo.forestry.umn.edu       

From ltague@physio1.utmem.edu  Thu Apr 29 05:23:34 1993
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Subject: Re: Straw Poll: Create comp.sys.mac.scitech? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Apr 93 08:04:27 CDT."
             <01GXKTF2TASY000BHD@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> 
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 10:23:34 -0500
From: ltague@physio1.utmem.edu
X-Mts: smtp

PLEASE provide a utility which can be used by those who would like to
access a "Usenet news" type discussion to nih-image and those who those
who would only like to access the information that is being discussed
in a simple straight forward manner and maybe do a keyword search.  The
answer would be a gopher server with one of its items pointing at
nih-image news reader.  This will provide something that is not
currently being provided.  Answers to your questions are below:

Read some Usenet groups yes
Read sci.image.processing no
Read comp.sys.mac.programmer no 
Read comp.sys.mac.applications no
Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech yes 
Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic no 
Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV yes
If so, how would you vote? yes... if thats all that can be done??

Thanks for all the good work on nih-image.  Have a nice day!

Larry

Larry Tague				U.T., Memphis
Research Associate			Dept. of Physiology & Biophysics
Research Program Director, MECCA*	894 Union Ave
Phone Bus.: 901-528-7152		Memphis, TN 38163
Phone FAX:  901-528-7126
e-mail:  ltague@physio1.utmem.edu

*MECCA (Memphis Educational Computer Connectivity Alliance)
--------

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu Apr 29 10:25:40 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 10:25:40 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Image FFT and PowerPC

>Wayne, what is the future for Image in the PowerPC world?
>Are you going to port it?  I guess you have to buy an RS/6000 at the
>moment to try compiling code!

I will port Image to the PowerPC when there is a PowerPC Pascal compiler
that runs in the Mac environment. No way would I buy an RS/6000 just to
port Image. Does anyong know if Symantec is coming out with a PowerPC
version of Think Pascal?

--wayne


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Thu Apr 29 07:24:54 1993
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 29 Apr 1993 12:24:55 EDT
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 12:24:54 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: RE: Image FFT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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>Perceptics added Arlo Reeves' FFT routines to Image/VDM 1.44, which is
>available from zippy.nimh.nih.gov, in the image-spinoffs directory. The
>source code, however, is not on Zippy, but perhaps someone can talk them
>into making it available. The main problem with Arlo's FFT code is that it
>is written in assembler, and 68000 assembler code doesn't seem to have much
>of a future with the Power/PC coming.
>
>--wayne

I just spoke to Paul Whelan and got his permission to post the source.
It will be in contrib, and no doubt Wayne will move it to spinoffs.

(I ran the self extracting archive and was restuffing it with Stuffit
Lite, which crashed twice.  So I searched my comp.sys.mac.* archive
and saw that Stuffit Lite has a random crash problem.  Back to Stuffit
Classic...)
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU  Thu Apr 29 08:38:10 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 12:38:10 -0400
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: FFT

Please, please, please do *not* add machine-dependent FFT code to your
version of Image, or to the master copy.  Rather, use the carefully
maintained and heavily optimized version available from LAPACK.
LAPACK is a public domain library of mathematical routines maintained
by the numerical analysis community.  Converting FORTRAN rountines to
Think Pascal is easy, but keeping up with new hardware-software
interactions (e.g. a new cache size) is hard.  For further information,
send E_Mail to netlib@surfer.epm.ornl.gov with a blank Subject line
and the words "send index" as the first line of the file.
 - David Salzman

From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Thu Apr 29 09:37:17 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 14:37:17 CDT
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9304291937.AA16624@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Straw Poll: Create comp.sys.mac.scitech? 
In-Reply-To: ltague@physio1.utmem.edu's message <9304291523.AA18856@physio1.utmem.edu> of 29 April 1993
References: <9304291523.AA18856@physio1.utmem.edu>

ltague@physio1.utmem.edu <ltague@physio1.utmem.edu> writes on 29 April 1993 at 10:26:05 -0500
 > PLEASE provide a utility which can be used by those who would like to
 > access a "Usenet news" type discussion to nih-image and those who those
 > who would only like to access the information that is being discussed
 > in a simple straight forward manner and maybe do a keyword search.  The
 > answer would be a gopher server with one of its items pointing at
 > nih-image news reader.  This will provide something that is not
 > currently being provided.  

I haven't done Usenet news previously because we are volunteering the
support for this mailing list, and it seemed like more work than I
wanted to undertake.  Running a vote takes a fair amount of effort,
and there's no guarantee that it'll pass.  Short of a sci. or comp.
newsgroup, one *could* set a new group up in the alt. hierarchy, but
many sites don't get a full feed.  A mailing list is something which
can be done fairly simply, and can provide very low common-denominator
transmission of information.

In regards to gopher access, it's been up since early March.

A posting went out to the list, and it's mentioned in the welcome
message which is automatically sent ot new subscribers.

========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 14:00:38 CST
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9303022000.AA06597@saturn>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Image mailing list archives available on gopher

Several people have asked the following question:

 > Is it possible to get previous messages?  

Currently, I do not have email archive access to historical messages

From the mailing list.  I am investigating ways to do this, but they
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From: refried@med.unc.edu (Howard M. Fried)
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re:  Straw Poll:  Create comp.sys.mac.scitech?

Read some Usenet groups				Y
Read sci.image.processing			N
Read comp.sys.mac.programmer			N
Read comp.sys.mac.applications			Y
Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech			Y
Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic	Y
Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV	Y
If so, how would you vote?			Y

From msachs@admin.ogi.edu  Thu Apr 29 08:24:52 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 15:24:52 PDT
Message-Id: <9304292224.AA18137@admin.ogi.edu.ogi.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: msachs@admin.ogi.edu (Matthew Sachs)
Subject: Re: Straw Poll:  Create comp.sys.mac.scitech?

>There is currently a discussion in news.groups regarding the possible
>creation of a Usenet newsgroup comp.sys.mac.scitech.  Generally, the
>opponents of the group point out that there already exists a group
>sci.comp-aided which has essentially no traffic, and should be used
>instead.  As I recall, the proposers will archive the group and include
>an archive of software.  The RFD has expired at my Usenet server, so
>I can't include a copy.  I will post a request that it be reposted.
>
>Interested readers of the NIH Image mailing list, please answer this
>poll by entering Y or N at the end of each line:
>
>Read some Usenet groups                        y
>Read sci.image.processing                      n|
>Read comp.sys.mac.programmer                   n|
>Read comp.sys.mac.applications                 n|
>Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech                n|
                                                 _>
>Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic    ?  I just started image reading
                                                   this week
>Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV     don't know
>If so, how would you vote?                          "

Best,

Matthew Sachs


From MNOWYCKY@MEDCOLPA.BITNET  Tue Apr 30 04:44:05 1993
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Date: 30 Apr 1993 09:44:05 -0500
From: MNOWYCKY@MEDCOLPA.BITNET
Subject: Re: Zeiss Camera
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unsubscribe

From schmidth@vax.rz.uni-wuerzburg.dbp.de  Sat May  1 21:09:27 1993
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To: nih-image <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <01GXM92YNT1E91VSLM@ccc.medcolpa.edu>
Subject:  Re: Zeiss Camera

What does this message mean?
Am I already been kicked out of the nih-image server?
And what about Zeiss?

Wondering.

Harald.

From set@eru.mt.luth.se  Mon May  3 14:55:19 1993
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg)
Subject: Re: Straw Poll:  Create comp.sys.mac.scitech?
X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable

>There is currently a discussion in news.groups regarding the possible
>creation of a Usenet newsgroup comp.sys.mac.scitech.  Generally, the
>opponents of the group point out that there already exists a group
>sci.comp-aided which has essentially no traffic, and should be used
>instead.  As I recall, the proposers will archive the group and include
>an archive of software.  The RFD has expired at my Usenet server, so
>I can't include a copy.  I will post a request that it be reposted.
>
>Interested readers of the NIH Image mailing list, please answer this
>poll by entering Y or N at the end of each line:
>
>Read some Usenet groups Y
>Read sci.image.processing Y
>Read comp.sys.mac.programmer Y
>Read comp.sys.mac.applications N
>Would read comp.sys.mac.scitech Y
>Would read sci.comp-aided if it had traffic N
>Would vote on the comp.sys.mac.scitech CFV N
>If so, how would you vote? 
>
>--
>Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
>Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
>NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003
Sven-Erik Tiberg 
Div. of energy / mashineenginnering 
Lulea University of Technology
Lulea Sweden
email set@eru.mt.luth.se
Fax. S-(0)920-91047
Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638



From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Mon May  3 11:14:26 1993
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Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 11:14:26 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Camera

>unsubscribe

To unsubscribe to the nih image mailing list send a message containing the
single line "unsubscribe nih-image" to listserv@soils.umn.edu.

--wayne


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Mon May  3 09:37:10 1993
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 3 May 1993 14:37:17 EDT
Date: Mon, 03 May 1993 14:37:10 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: CFV: comp.sys.mac.scitech
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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Thanks to all who responded to the straw poll.  Discussion had sort of
died down in news.groups, except for a few diehard opponents of the group,
and I was going to post the responses to counter their arguments...

However, in the meantime, the CFV has come out.  Vote early and often :-)

Path:
netnews!cmcl2!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-sta
te.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!bounce-back
From: Michael Duncan <scitech@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.comp-aided,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,com
p.sys.mac.apps,comp.sys.mac.announce
Subject: CFV: comp.sys.mac.scitech
Followup-To: poster
Date: 30 Apr 1993 18:42:40 -0400
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Lines: 116
Sender: tale@rodan.UU.NET
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net, werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
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NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: netnews news.announce.newgroups:3779 news.groups:73049
sci.comp-aided:287 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:5589 comp.sys.mac.apps:22477
comp.sys.mac.announce:439

C A L L   F O R   V O T E S
---------------------------

This is an official Call For Votes (CFV) for the creation of the new
news group comp.sys.mac.scitech.


STATUS

unmoderated


VOTING

The voting period will begin when this CFV is posted. It will end
on May 30, 1993 at 23:59 EDT. According to the USENET rules, in
order for the group to be created, at least 2/3 of the votes cast
must be YES votes, and there must be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes.
     
To vote please mail to the following address
     
         scitech@ra.nrl.navy.mil

The contents of the message should contain either the line

       "I vote for comp.sys.mac.scitech as proposed"
or

      "I vote against comp.sys.mac.scitech as proposed"

whichever is appropriate.

Email messages sent to the above address must constitute unambiguous
and unconditional votes for/against newsgroup creation as proposed.
Conditional votes will not be accepted.  Votes emailed to the above
address will be counted.

In the event that more than one vote is placed by an individual, 
only the most recent vote will be counted.  

Please include your full name if your mailer doesn't do this for you.

Two additional CFV's will be posted during the course of the
vote, along with acknowledgments of those votes received to date.
No information will be supplied as to how people are voting until
the final acknowledgment is made at the end, at which time the
full vote will be made public.

SCHEDULE

This CFV was issued on April 30, and the voting period will end on
May 30, 1993 at 23:59 EDT.

Thank you for your participation.


CHARTER

comp.sys.mac.scitech (unmoderated) will be a newsgroup
for the discussion of practical and innovative applications
of the Macintosh in a variety of scientific and engineering
disciplines.  Some, but not all, of the fields expected to
be included within the scope of the newsgroup are:

* Acoustics
* Astronomy
* Biochemistry
* Biology
* Chemistry
* Computer Science
* Electrical Engineering
* Geology
* Geophysics
* Materials Science
* Mathematics
* Mechanical Engineering
* Medicine
* Optics
* Physics
* Psychology

There are a number of technologies that are common to many
of the above scientific fields.  This newsgroup will also be
for the discussion of advances in and applications of those
technologies.  Some, but not all, of the technologies of
interest are:

* Computer Aided Drawing/Computer Aided Engineering
* Digital Signal Processing
* Data Acquisition
* Image Processing
* Modeling
* Process Control
* Simulation
* Technical Graphing
* Technical Publishing
* Visualization

Since many scientists and engineers develop technical
programs on the Macintosh computer, this newsgroup will also
be for the discussion of topics in programming that relate
to the use of programs in a science or engineering
environment.  It is assumed that this newsgroup will also
include discussions of the Macintosh computer as it is used
in the higher level education of scientists and engineers.  


RFD

An RFD for this group was issued on March 31 and lasted for 30 days.
-- 
Michael D. Duncan, Research Physicist           scitech@ra.nrl.navy.mil
Code 5640                       Chairman, communications committee, MacSciTech
Naval Research Laboratory
Washington, DC  20375                           (202) 767-2507
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Mon May  3 10:54:36 1993
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 3 May 1993 15:54:39 EDT
Date: Mon, 03 May 1993 15:54:36 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Solicit reviews of image analysis apps
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GXQSWXA8EA0002S5@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Attached is my response to this posting.  Anyone else with opinions should
also reply to Dr. Wetzel.

>Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
>From: WTZL@db1.cc.rochester.edu (DR. DANIEL WETZEL)
>Subject: Solicit reviews of image analysis apps
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 93 17:37:33 GMT
>Lines: 19
>
>I am interested in reviews of applications (public domain & "shrink wrapped")
>for image analysis in the biological/medical sciences.  In particular, apps
>used for quantitative analysis of x-ray film and microsopic samples (i.e.
>autoradiography and morphometery).  Please supply info regarding
>1) platform
>2) operating system
>3) supplier address
>4) current list price
>5) requirements: memory, framegrabbers, imaging cards/board sets etc.
>6) device drivers supported (i.e. x-y-z stages; filter wheels)
>7) your review: include positive & negatives, bugs, product support etc.
>8) would you buy/download it again?
>Please email reviews to:
>WTZL@db1.cc.rochester.edu
>I will summarize and post to this group if warranted.
>Thanks
>Dan Wetzel
>UOR Neurology


1) platform
Mac with 8 bit color and FPU.  Version for nonFPU Macs available.

2) operating system
System 6 or 7.

3) supplier address
zippy.nimh.nih.gov, /pub/image, written by Wayne Rasband. 
Also available at many Mac FTP sites like sumex.

4) current list price
$0.00, public domain, no strings, source available.

5) requirements: memory, framegrabbers, imaging cards/board sets etc.
Might run in under 4 meg RAM, I haven't tried recently.  Supports a number
of Mac framegrabbers, and more are coming online since it the latest
version supports Photoshop plug-ins.  Requires Think Pascal in order to
make source code modifications, $165 from MacWarehouse.

6) device drivers supported (i.e. x-y-z stages; filter wheels)
Supports serial output to Mac modem port.

7) your review: include positive & negatives, bugs, product support etc.

Does not support 16 bit images, but will import them and rescale them to
match the current brightness / contrast.  There is a mailing list of active
users.  Many people think the user interface is superior to commercial
packages that they already own, and when possible, they use NIH Image in
preference to those other packages.  A number of users plan to add more
features, even when these features are available in a commercial package,
so that they do not have to teach more than one package.  The macro
programming language is Pascal like, crash free (unlike writing Pascal
programs), and powerful.  It supports both automation of things you can do

From the menu, and programming things that cannot be done from the menu. 
Received: from pennsy.med.jhu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c)
	id AA04314; Tue, 4 May 1993 08:57:37 -0500
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	id AA17515; Tue, 4 May 93 10:10:56 -0400
Date: Tue, 4 May 93 10:10:56 -0400
Message-Id: <9305041410.AA17515@pennsy.med.jhu.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu (Brett A. Simon)
Subject: Data loss with 16 bit-Pict conversion?

I am a new Image user and have a question about the different file types. 
I am importing signed 16 bit NEMA CT images, scaling them using the
"SetImportMinMax" macro function, and making quantitative density
measurements which need to be consistent from scan to scan.  Saving my
scaled images as Tiff or Pict files will greatly conserve disk space, but
there is a veiled warning in the manual about changes in pixel values in
pseudocolored images saved in Pict format, due to the data compression
scheme.  A quick comparison of random values and standard deviations of
ROI's in some of my images saved in all three ways doesn't appear
different, but this doesn't test all possibilities.  
     Can anyone advise me if Pict format will actually alter density
measurements in this situation?  I have been using only the standard
grayscale LUT, if that makes a difference.  How about Tiff?

Thanks for your help.
B. Simon
_____
Brett Simon (bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu)
Dept. of Anesthesia and Critical Care Medicine
Johns Hopkins Hospital
(410) 614-1515


From JCAIRA@UCONNVM.BITNET  Mon May  6 07:30:34 1993
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Date: 06 May 1993 12:30:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "P.R. Cislo" <JCAIRA@UCONNVM.BITNET>
Subject: colorimage
To: IMAGE <NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <01GXUS2N4O0I9AQMV9@vx.cis.umn.edu>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I have a Quadra 950 with 4Mb of RAM.  The Colorimage software package
will not run.  The software crashes right after the 'tool' icons for the
package appear on the screen.  Does anyone have a helpful suggestion?
Thank you.

P.R. Cislo
University of Connecticut
Marine Sciences Department
Avery Point


From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Thu May  6 10:52:44 1993
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Date: Thu, 6 May 93 15:52:44 CDT
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9305062052.AA07476@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Looping messages *should* be eliminated

I'm terribly sorry about the out-of-control message looping problem we
experienced earlier today.

The cause was a mailer in Germany which does not recognize the
Errors-to: mail header which is designed to eliminate this kind of
problem.  I have removed the user subscribed from the bad system and
have infformed the postmaster at that location of the exact nature of
the problem.

If you notice that there are problems, I welcome *direct* mail either
to my personal account, or to "owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
"postmaster@soils.umn.edu" is also good.

I do receive a copy of each message sent to the list, and Ed Nater
looks over them as well.  I will generally know about problems as soon
as I (or Ed) look at my (or his) mail, so sending additional message
isn't specifically needed.

In the future, *please* do not send more messages to the list when it
can seen to be looping.  This only fuels an already bad situation.
It's a good thing I wasn't investigating our building network any
longer than I was.  The quoted message exacerbated the volume of
looped/bounced messages to a size that it wouldn't have reached
naturally for at least another hour or two.

    -jml    NIH-Image mailing list administrator

--
	     UMN Department of Soil Science; St. Paul, MN

Internet: john.ladwig@soils.umn.edu             Fidonet: John Ladwig 1:282/341
          jladwig@torpedo.forestry.umn.edu      Phone:   +1-612-625-9235


From tyshih@cc.nctu.edu.tw  Fri May  7 03:42:04 1993
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From: tyshih@cc.nctu.edu.tw
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Subject: ImageFractal
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Fri, 7 May 93 16:43:46 WST
Cc: tyshih@cc.nctu.edu.tw
In-Reply-To: <9305041410.AA17515@pennsy.med.jhu.edu>; from "Brett A. Simon" at May 6, 93 7:53 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Dear Netters:

Greetings.  I am trying to use ImageFractal.  However, I can't get 
the fractal analysis going.  Is there any document regarding to 
ImageFractal?  Or, would anyone be kindly provide me some instructions?

Thanks a lot for your kind attention.

Sincerely yours

Peter Shih
===============================================================================
 Peter T.Y. Shih                           Internet: tyshih@cc.nctu.edu.tw
 Surveying Engineering Group
 Dept. of Civil Engineering                Phone:    (886) 035-712121 exit 3540
 National Chiao-Tung University            FAX:      (886) 035-716257
 Hsin-Chu, Taiwan, R.O.C.                  Telex:   
================================================================================


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri May  7 09:18:11 1993
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	id AA03339; Fri, 7 May 93 10:29:31 -0400
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Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 09:18:11 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: v1.40b40 and RasterOps frame grabbers

I have uploaded a new 1.50 beta to Zippy that should allow Image to capture
images from any RasterOps frame grabber using the RasterOps Video Capture
plug-in.

--wayne


From mcarter@iastate.edu  Fri May  7 04:32:59 1993
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From: mcarter@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <9305071433.AA04067@iastate.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: v1.40b40 and RasterOps frame grabbers 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 07 May 93 09:24:24 -0500.
             <9305071429.AA03339@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> 
Date: Fri, 07 May 93 09:32:59 CDT


Wayne,
	I'm in the process of setting up a system to use Image.  Do you 
still recommend the Scion board as the frame grabber of choice, or would
you now go with the RasterOps?  Any advantage of one board over another?

Thank-you,

Margie Carter
Image Analysis Facility
Iowa State University
mcarter@iastate.edu

From rudolfo@hoh.mbl.edu  Fri May  7 10:14:51 1993
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Date: Fri, 07 May 93 11:22:14 
From: rudolfo@hoh.mbl.edu (Rudolf Oldenbourg)
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: DAC support on LG-3, "Make Movie" macro  

One piece of information and one question:

Tod Weinberg from Scion Corp. has written code for NIH Image 1.49 which 
can set the two Digital to Analog Converters (DACs) on the Scion LG-3 
board by using a menu command or macro functions.  Tod (301- 695-7870) 
will send the special version of Image and/or source code to interested 
users.  If requested, I can upload the files to zippy.nimh.nih.gov.

My question, which might be best addressed to Wayne Rasband, has to do 
with the "Make Movie" menu command.  It seems to me that there is no 
equivalent macro function providing the same speed and flexibility in 
grabbing several frames or frame portions and asigning them to a stack.  
Can this macro function be included in the next version of Image?

Rudolf (another ardent Image user)

From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Fri May  7 16:07:56 1993
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Date:    Fri, 7 May 93 16:07:56 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930507160756.2485d05d@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: RE: DAC support on LG-3, "Make Movie" macro  
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

Rudolf, 
	How would you use the two DACs on the LG-3? I just 
purchased the board and am still exploring it uses. Unfortunately, 
the manual is "coming soon" but not yet available.
			Harvey Karten 
 Harvey J. Karten, M.D.
 Dept. of Neurosciences
 Univ.California San Diego
 La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
 EMail: Kartenh@sdsc.edu
 Phone: (619)-534-4938
 FAX: (619)-534-6602

From STPREMW@production.unocal.com  Fri May  7 02:11:00 1993
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From: "Withjack, Eric" <STPREMW@production.unocal.com>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: colorimage
Date: Fri, 07 May 93 09:11:00 PDT
Message-Id: <2BEA8A22@courier>
Encoding: 8 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0

FYI I have a Quadra 800 with 28 MB RAM and Image 1.49 runs fine.  I noticed 
that the earlier version of Image(1.39b14) did not run well - especially 
changing the color scheme.  This may be related to the new Mac OP SYS (7), as 
the old Image worked OK with Mac OP SYS 6.  

Eric Withjack, UNOCAL, Brea (714) 577-1227



From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Fri May  7 17:46:46 1993
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Date:    Fri, 7 May 93 17:46:46 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930507174646.2485d05d@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: RE: DAC support on LG-3, "Make Movie" macro  
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

Rudolf, 
	Please upload the new LG-3 software.
			many thanks, Harvey Karten

From rudolfo@hoh.mbl.edu  Fri May  7 13:10:12 1993
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Date: Fri, 07 May 93 14:17:35 
From: rudolfo@hoh.mbl.edu (Rudolf Oldenbourg)
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: RE: DAC support on LG-3, "Make Movie" macro  

>	How would you use the two DACs on the LG-3?

I control liquid crystal retarders in a polarized light microscope.  The 
electronic control circuits of the variable retarders (from CRI in 
Cambridge, MA) take an input voltage between 0 and 5V which is used to 
set the retardance of the LC devices.  I use the DAC's to set the input 
voltages to computer controlled levels.


> 	Please upload the new LG-3 software.

WHat is the policy of uploading to zippy.  Can anybody do it?  Wayne or 
a system administrator, please respond.

Rudolf

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri May  7 13:20:41 1993
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Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 13:20:41 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: RE: DAC support on LG-3, "Make Movie" macro

>WHat is the policy of uploading to zippy.  Can anybody do it?  Wayne or 
>a system administrator, please respond.

Anyone can upload to the /pub/image/contrib directory on Zippy.

--wayne


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri May  7 13:23:09 1993
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	id AA03932; Fri, 7 May 93 14:34:29 -0400
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Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 13:23:09 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: v1.40b40 and RasterOps frame grabbers

>	I'm in the process of setting up a system to use Image.  Do you 
>still recommend the Scion board as the frame grabber of choice, or would
>you now go with the RasterOps?  Any advantage of one board over another?

The advantage of the RasterOps 24STV is its ability to capture and display
24-bit color in real-time. It can do this because it is a frame grabber and
video card rolled into one. The disadvantage is it that it is cumbersome to
use a 24-bit card like the 24STV with an 8-bit program like Image. To
capture an image you have to load the RasterOps plug-in, click on the OK
button when it asks if you want to switch to millions of colors mode, wait
for it to switch modes(several seconds), click on the Grab button, wait for
the data to  be copied to a 3 slice(RGB) stack, wait for Image to switch
back to 8-bit mode, and, finally, wait for Image to generate a 8-bit
version of the 24-bit image. With the 24STV you also give up the ability to
average frames, to do shading correction, and to make movies.

--wayne


From rudolfo@hoh.mbl.edu  Fri May  7 16:28:21 1993
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Date: Fri, 07 May 93 17:35:45 
From: rudolfo@hoh.mbl.edu (Rudolf Oldenbourg)
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: DAC support on LG-3  

We have uploaded Image149LG3DAC.sit.hqx to the contrib directory on 
zippy.nimh.nih.gov.  This archive contains the source and an executable 
version of Image 1.49 modified to support the D to A converters on the 
Scion LG-3 board.  Please direct questions on its usage to Tod Weinberg, 
Scion Corp., Tel.: 301-695-7870.

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri May  7 16:32:05 1993
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	id AA04379; Fri, 7 May 93 17:43:25 -0400
Message-Id: <9305072143.AA04379@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 16:32:05 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Data loss with 16 bit-Pict conversion?

>I am a new Image user and have a question about the different file types. 
>I am importing signed 16 bit NEMA CT images, scaling them using the
>"SetImportMinMax" macro function, and making quantitative density
>measurements which need to be consistent from scan to scan.  Saving my
>scaled images as Tiff or Pict files will greatly conserve disk space, but
>there is a veiled warning in the manual about changes in pixel values in
>pseudocolored images saved in Pict format, due to the data compression
>scheme. 

The pixels values do not change due to the compression, but they sometimes
change because QuickDraw's DrawPicture routine is more concerned with
getting the screen colors right than with maintaining the pixel values. 

>A quick comparison of random values and standard deviations of
>ROI's in some of my images saved in all three ways doesn't appear
>different, but this doesn't test all possibilities.  
>     Can anyone advise me if Pict format will actually alter density
>measurements in this situation?  I have been using only the standard
>grayscale LUT, if that makes a difference.  How about Tiff?

I have only seen this problem with pseudocolored images saved in PICT
format. Pixels values are never altered when saving in TIFF format.

--wayne


From stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu  Fri May  7 17:29:25 1993
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From: stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu (Sam Wang)
Message-Id: <9305080129.AA15792@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Subject: Frame averaging
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 21:29:25 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <9305071834.AA03932@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> from "Wayne Rasband" at May 7, 93 01:23:33 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 307       

Wayne,

Is there some way to average captured frames? For instance, can frames
captured previously be averaged? If not currently possible, what about
in the future?

Thanks.

Sam
-- 
Sam Wang  stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu    803/656-3924voice 656-0204fax
Art Dept., Clemson University, Clemson, SC 29634-0509

From ptr@greco2.polytechnique.fr  Sat May  8 17:09:49 1993
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: ptr@greco2.polytechnique.fr (Peter Goedtkindt)
Subject: question for video hackers

>The advantage of the RasterOps 24STV is its ability to capture and display
>24-bit color in real-time. It can do this because it is a frame grabber and
>video card rolled into one. The disadvantage is it that it is cumbersome to
>use a 24-bit card like the 24STV with an 8-bit program like Image. To
>capture an image you have to load the RasterOps plug-in, click on the OK
>button when it asks if you want to switch to millions of colors mode, wait
>for it to switch modes(several seconds), click on the Grab button, wait for
>the data to  be copied to a 3 slice(RGB) stack, wait for Image to switch
>back to 8-bit mode, and, finally, wait for Image to generate a 8-bit
>version of the 24-bit image. With the 24STV you also give up the ability to
>average frames, to do shading correction, and to make movies.
>
>--wayne

Does the RaterOps card has an external trigger? Are the 3 colors captured
taken from the same frame  or does it takes 3 frames to do a sequential
grabbing. I'm still looking to grab images coming from 3 syncronized b/w
CCD camera's.The 3 signals can electronically be encoded as a single
composite color 'image', but I need to grab one precise image (defined by a
trigger pulse) from all three camera's and I don't like to buy two
additional quickcapture boards. 
Anybody has an idea how to build myself a frame store, which will freeze a
b/w image when a trigger signal is applied? If such devices exist, I could
add even more signals, and read them in sequentially into my quickcapture.
Peter Goedtkindt
Universite Paris-Sud - Laboratoire de Spectroscopie Atomique et Ionique
bat350 - Centre D'Orsay F-91405 Orsay Cedex. France ; Fax.:++33.1.69.41.94.60
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ecole Polytechnique, Laboratoire d'Utilisation de Lasers Intenses
-----------------------------------------------------------------


From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Sat May  8 16:58:10 1993
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Date:    Sat, 8 May 93 16:58:10 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930508165810.20405530@m5.sdsc.edu>
Subject: Ludl 1000 Controller
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"

Has anyone written any Macros for controlling the MAC 1000 Ludl 
controller for stage (x,y) and focus (z) movements? David Salzman
was kind enough to provide assistance on getting started, but I am 
still having troubles with this. 

I have made some progress in penetrating the obtuse manual
originally provided by Ludl. It is very brief, with many functions
not explained. I have also been able to finally get control 
of the MAC 1000 via terminal emulator programs (I use Red Ryder 10.3
with good results). If there are other users out there who would like to 
exchange info on this, please let me know. 
I now can control about 12 out of the 17 functions built in to the
MDRMS Controller. I need a bit of help with the other functions. 
The difficulty mainly resides in 1) the control codes; and 2) How
Ludl intended the use of the "Base" and "Target" values.

Looking forward to hearing from others needing liberation from Ludl.
			Harvey Karten 
 Harvey J. Karten, M.D.
 Dept. Neurosciences 
 UCSD 0608
 La Jolla, CA 92093 
 Phone (619)-534-4938 
 FAX (619)-534-6602 
 E-Mail KARTENH@SDSC.EDU

From JWALKER@SBBIOVM.BITNET  Thu May  9 11:50:44 1993
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Date: 09 May 1993 15:50:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: jeff Walker <JWALKER@SBBIOVM.BITNET>
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please unsubsribe jeff Walker from the list nih-soils

From set@eru.mt.luth.se  Mon May 10 15:01:13 1993
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Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 13:01:13 +0200
Message-Id: <199305101101.AA18280@eru.mt.luth.se>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg)
Subject: 1.50 Expansions
X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable


Some ideas:

  - Include PAL/NTSC in Videocontrol since it's tested and verified now.
  An urgent wish from us outside the states and a policy item for Apple.

  - In Image 1.49 LG3DAC-version please include the macro command
DacControl( DacA, DacB : 0..255 ) instead/and SetDacA, SetDacB. It would
make the DAC option a lot powerfull. Compareable to Serial-macros.

  - Is it possible to use the on-board memory on LG3 now for fast
framegrabbing and to transfere the images to Image-windows by macros.
Including commands/macro for delay between frames.

  - We are using the AFM version of Image with FFT, Wane did ask for the
programdeveloper and it's probably U Knipping at Arizona State University,
since they do have the 1.40 version.

  - We do also like to have FFT and 2Dxcorr functions in Image.

 
Sven-Erik Tiberg 
Div. of energy / mashineenginnering 
Lulea University of Technology
Lulea Sweden
email set@eru.mt.luth.se
Fax. S-(0)920-91047
Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638



From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Mon May 10 09:48:21 1993
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Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 09:48:21 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: 1.50 Expansions

>  - Include PAL/NTSC in Videocontrol since it's tested and verified now.
>  An urgent wish from us outside the states and a policy item for Apple.

I plan to include Sven-Erik Tiberg's method for more accurate Make Movie
timing when using PAL systems in V1.50.

>  - In Image 1.49 LG3DAC-version please include the macro command
>DacControl( DacA, DacB : 0..255 ) instead/and SetDacA, SetDacB. It would
>make the DAC option a lot powerfull. Compareable to Serial-macros.

I have added the SetDacA and SetDacB macros to 1.50b41.

>  - Is it possible to use the on-board memory on LG3 now for fast
>framegrabbing and to transfere the images to Image-windows by macros.
>Including commands/macro for delay between frames.

There is currently no way to do this without custom Pascal programming.

>  - We do also like to have FFT and 2Dxcorr functions in Image.

I have no plans to add FFT or 2D cross-correlation capabilities to Image.

--wayne


From set@eru.mt.luth.se  Mon May 10 19:36:04 1993
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Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 17:36:04 +0200
Message-Id: <199305101536.AA27103@eru.mt.luth.se>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg)
Subject: Re: 1.50 Expansions
X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable


>>  - Is it possible to use the on-board memory on LG3 now for fast
>>framegrabbing and to transfere the images to Image-windows by macros.
>>Including commands/macro for delay between frames.
>
>There is currently no way to do this without custom Pascal programming.
>
>--wayne

Thank you wayne for the modifications, we will now try to programm the LG-3
for this purouse.

-- 
Sven-Erik Tiberg 
Div. of energy / mashineenginnering 
Lulea University of Technology
Lulea Sweden
email set@eru.mt.luth.se
Fax. S-(0)920-91047
Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638



From MNOWYCKY@MEDCOLPA.BITNET  Fri May 10 08:27:37 1993
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From: MNOWYCKY@MEDCOLPA.BITNET
Subject: Re: unsub
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please unsubscribe martha nowycky from the list nih-soils

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Mon May 10 12:36:29 1993
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Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 12:36:29 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Frame averaging

>Is there some way to average captured frames? For instance, can frames
>captured previously be averaged? If not currently possible, what about
>in the future?

Previously captured frames can be averaged using the new Average
command(Stacks menu) in Image 1.49. V1.49 is available by anonymous FTP

From zippy.nimh.nih.gov.
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Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 12:39:19 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: unsub

>please unsubscribe martha nowycky from the list nih-soils

To unsubscribe, send a one line message containing the line "unsubscribe
nih-image" to listserv@soils.umn.edu.

--wayne


From @TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:RPRDANI@TECHNION  Sat May 11 20:12:21 1993
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 11 May 1993 14:59:57 +0200
Date: 11 May 1993 14:42:21 +0530 (IST)
From: Danni Dagan <RPRDANI@TECHNION.BITNET>
Subject: CID cameras
To: Image BB <NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU>
Message-Id: <01GY1GLIT3TE9GVBFA@vx.cis.umn.edu>
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Does anybody have experience with ChargeInjectionDevice (CID) cameras?
What would be a suitable Image Grabber board to match the speed of CIDs?
The CIDTEC (CID camera manufacturere for civilian uses) claim a 1kHz rate
(1000 fps) at 64x64 pixels. With 2x4 pixels one should be able to reach 0.5MHz
rates. Information on CID cameras, Image Grabbers, and software to capture
and load frames into Image windows will be greatly appreciated.

Danni Dagan
Biophysics & Physiology
Rappaport Faculty of Medicine
Sir Bernard Katz Minerva Center for
Cell Biophysics
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Does anybody have experience with ChargeInjectionDevice (CID) cameras?
What would be a suitable Image Grabber board to match the speed of CIDs?
The CIDTEC (CID camera manufacturers for civilian uses) claim a 1kHz rate
(1000 fps) at 64x64 pixels. With 2x4 pixels one should be able to reach 0.5MHz
rates. Information on CID cameras, Image Grabbers, and software to capture
and load frames into Image windows will be greatly appreciated.

Danni Dagan
Biophysics & Physiology
Rappaport Faculty of Medicine
Sir Bernard Katz Minerva Center for
Cell Biophysics
======================================================================== 9
Date:         Tue, 11 May 93 14:26:55 IST
From:         danni <RPRDANI@TECHNION>
Subject:      Re: CID cameras
To:           John Ladwig <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 06:21:41 CDT

Thanks. My address should read RPRDANI@TECHNION.BITNET and not
RPRD@.... no wonder it bounced.
dd

From ptr@GRECO2.POLYTECHNIQUE.FR  Wed May 12 14:38:42 1993
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Date: Wed, 12 May 93 12:38:42 +0200
Message-Id: <9305121038.AA20880@greco2.noname>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: ptr@GRECO2.POLYTECHNIQUE.FR (Peter Goedtkindt)
Subject: HDTV 

HDTV is will be the new standard for high resolution imaging.
The number of pixels on such a ccd are usually much more than 1000*1000,
and the image is in the format 9/16 instead of 3/4.
I do not think that the usual framegrabbers accept this standard. It is too
new and the amount of data to be processed is quite large. Anyway, If
somebody has experience with such camera's and related equipment, it would
be nice to share it with this list. -PTR



From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com  Wed May 12 08:58:37 1993
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Date: 12 May 1993 09:24:01 U
From: "Norm Hurst" <norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com>
Subject: Re: HDTV 
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

RE>HDTV 

The ONLY thing standard about HDTV is the aspect ratio: 16x9.  There are four
proposed scanning formats:
   "1050 interlaced", or twice CCIR-601: 1440x960, 59.94 fields/sec
   "787.5 proscan", or 3/2 525 lines with square pixels: 
                             1280x720 59.94 frames/sec
   "1250 Interlaced" or twice 625, at 50 fields/sec: "PAL HDTV"
   "1125 Interlaced 60 fields/sec". This is the original Sony/NHK system, and
         the only format for which you can buy cameras and tape machines.
         All other formats are custom (for the moment).

There is a religious war going on that focusses on three points:
   Square pixels
   Interlace or Progressive scan
   Frame rate (50, 60, 59.94 24/48/72, 25/50/75)

The four HDTV proponents before the FCC are currently trying to avoid another
round of technical tests ($20000/day for each proponent!) by forging a "Grand
Alliance", a single, compromise system.  The current deadline for this (i.e.
testing begins) is May 24.

Stay tuned!  

Norm Hurst
David Sarnoff Research Center



From losher@tigger.jvnc.net  Wed May 12 12:42:40 1993
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: losher@direct.com
Subject: NormHurst re HDTV
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

Keep up the great HDTV info, Norm, it's greatly appreciated!!


From losher@tigger.jvnc.net  Wed May 12 12:42:49 1993
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: losher@direct.com
Subject: NormHurst re HDTV
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

Keep up the great HDTV info, Norm, it's greatly appreciated!!

        	       	        Morton Losher
        	       	       	25 Fox Hill Road
        	       	       	Woodbridge, Conn. 06525-1427

        	       	       	e-mail(INTERNET):   losher@direct.com
        	       	       	e-mail(CompuServe): 73140,2007
        	       	       	telephone(FAX):     203-389-5235


From este@cs.ait.ac.th  Fri May 14 21:40:24 1993
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From: este@cs.ait.ac.th ( ESTE Armstrong)
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: subscribe

subscribe

From jamiel@sybase.com  Fri May 14 14:28:43 1993
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Date: Fri, 14 May 93 11:42:40 
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence)
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Image for non-research users?
Content-Length: 0

Hi-
I am an avid Image fan, and was wondering if there is any one else out 
there that use it as I do- for art  rather than analysis.  If so, then 
please resond.  I am interested in what you do, technique talk, macros 
and convolution filters, mainly, but am also just curious if I am alone 
on this one.
Thanks,
Jamie

From GSW$EN@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU  Fri May 14 08:44:47 1993
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Date:         Fri, 14 May 93 16:44:47 PST
From: Jerry Tangren <GSW$EN@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU>
Organization: WSU Tree Fruit Research & Extension Center
Subject:      Re: Image for non-research users?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 14 May 1993 14:32:24 -0500 from
 <jamiel%sybase.com@relay.tc.umn.edu>

jamie, this may not be what you are suggesting, but

we use Image to color weather satellite photos for posting to a bulletin
board accessed by tree fruit growers. We download the infrared photos,
determine the minimum level for the clouds and then color the visible
water blue and the land brown. Makes a nice gimmic for our computer
bulletin board.

Jerry Tangren
Wash State Univ
Tree Fruit Research & Extension Center
Wenatchee WA

From stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu  Fri May 14 16:07:08 1993
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From: stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu (Sam Wang)
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Subject: Re: Image for non-research users?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Fri, 14 May 1993 20:07:08 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <9305141841.AA23196@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com> from "Jamie Lawrence" at May 14, 93 02:28:54 pm
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Jamie,

There are at least two of us!

I am using Image for artistic explorations only. I also use it in
my Art with Computer class. Image offers a lot in terms of image
manipulations that's different from that of PhotoShop, and I find
it refreshing. Have spend hours and hours playing with surface plot
functions, showing fellow architects and sculptors how one can do
a quick greyscale mockup and immediately turn it into 3D. Lots of
fun.

Sam
-- 
Sam Wang  stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu    803/656-3924voice 656-0204fax
Art Dept., Clemson University, Clemson, SC 29634-0509

From seaa@ecuanex.apc.org  Sat May 15 14:45:03 1993
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Subject: Re: Image for non-research users?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Sat, 15 May 93 19:45:03 EST
In-Reply-To: <9305141841.AA23196@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com>; from "Jamie Lawrence" at May 14, 93 2:29 pm
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Jamie, although this is actually "research" it might give you some ideas.
We are using Image to obtain digital files of astronomical photographic
plates of the Omega Centauri globular cluster - one million stars in an
approximately spherical cluster.  Image is also used to measure the light
output of the variable stars in the cluster, after the digital files are on
disk.

False color pictures of the star field created by Image are very dramatic.

Regards,

felipe fried

From este@cs.ait.ac.th  Mon May 17 10:21:22 1993
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From: este@cs.ait.ac.th ( ESTE Armstrong)
To: NIH-Image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: statistical tests on profiles

I am looking for ways to analyze and cluster profiles collected through
Image.  Currently I am using the Mahalanobis Distance to study the
variability of my profiles and Sammon's non linear algorithm to help
cluster the profiles.  I would appreciate learning what other
techniques people have used to analyze the multi-dimensional profiles.
	Este Armstrong
	Este@cs.ait.ac.th

From CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu  Mon May 17 04:18:00 1993
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From: Charles Thomas <CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Image for non-research users?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu",CHARLEST

Well, not to get off the scientific talk, but I too have dabbled with Image in
an artistic fashion.  I have some very nice pictures of castles I did by
conceiving them in grey levels, then doing a surface plot and editing the
surface plot pixel by pixel.
 
All of this was, of course, done on my own time.  <innocent look>
 
Cheers!

From herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu  Mon May 17 06:31:58 1993
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From: "Michael J Herron-1" <herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Image for non-research users?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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It is nice to hear from the "art side" of Image users.  I have "played" a
lot with look up tables to pseudo color images from confocal pictures
(which have no "real color" information).  A big part of presenting data
is selling the audience.  I have found that people pay a lot more
attention when your images are expected...or even unexpected colors. 



From SMIT@CABO.AGRO.NL  Sat May 18 13:27:00 1993
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 18 May 1993 12:28 MET
Date: 18 May 1993 12:27 +0100 (MET)
From: "A.L. SMIT" <A.L.SMIT@CABO.AGRO.NL>
Subject: automatic fileprocessing
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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Hello, 
I would like to use Image to process several files during the night.
I understood that this is possible and wonder if one of you could give 
me an example how it can be done. I would like to do the following things:
-background correction (e.g. 2d ball)
-sharpening
-thresholding ( is it possible to do this automatically, e.g. with 
Isodata threshold method?)
-skeletonizing the binary picture
-counting the number of pixels in the skeletons (would it also be 
possible to discard skeletons smaller than e.g. 5 pixels?.


(I am not asking to program this all for me (you may do it of course), 
but more an example  how it can be done).
Thanks in advance.
Bert Smit, the Netherlands

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed May 19 12:15:30 1993
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 12:15:30 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: V1.50b51 beta and Filter plug-ins

I have uploaded a new Image beta(1.50b51) to Zippy that:

*Supports Photoshop filter plug-ins
*Uses submenus for plug-ins
*Fixes a bug that caused the Microtek Scanmaker plug-in to fail
*Imports 3D data sets
*Supports the Scion LG-3's external trigger, D/A converters and digital I/O
ports

Plug-ins must now be stored in a folder named "Plug-ins", located either in
the same folder as Image or in the System Folder. 1.50b51 comes with
example acquisition and filter plug-ins. 

Please let me know what acquisition and filter plug-ins seem to work so I
can add them to the list in the Change History file.

Are there any Think C experts out there? It would be nice if someone could
figure out how to compile the example plug-ins in the
plug-ins/developers_kit file on Zippy. They seem to expect a version of
Think C earlier than 4.0.

--wayne


From Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu  Wed May 19 12:30:33 1993
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Date: 19 May 1993 13:27:42 U
From: "Carl Gustafson" <Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
Subject: Re: V1.50b51 beta and Filter
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

        Reply to:   RE>V1.50b51 beta and Filter pl
>Are there any Think C experts out there? It would be nice if someone could
>figure out how to compile the example plug-ins in the
>plug-ins/developers_kit file on Zippy. They seem to expect a version of
>Think C earlier than 4.0.

I'm not an expert, but off the top of my head I know that TC 5 and later is
moving towards a header organization similar to MPW's. The problem is thus
probably in the #includes in the source files.

Regards,
Carl Gustafson



From jamiel@sybase.com  Wed May 19 12:44:13 1993
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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 10:46:43 
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence)
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: V1.50b51 beta and Filter plug-ins
Content-Length: 202

Hi-
probably a FAQ, but is there any way to access this file through mail?  
I have no ftp access, and according to the index, the most recent 
version available through remailing is 1.49.
thanks
jamie

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed May 19 13:05:22 1993
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 13:05:22 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: FTP mail service

>probably a FAQ, but is there any way to access this file through mail?  
>I have no ftp access, and according to the index, the most recent 
>version available through remailing is 1.49.

You can use the ftp mail service provided by decwrl.dec.com
to get files from zippy.nimh.nih.gov.

Create an Email message with the following contents:

reply <your email address>
chunksize 45000
connect zippy.nimh.nih.gov
dir /pub/image
quit

Send this message to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com.  You'll get back a
directory listing.  Then you can substitute "get /pub/image/[filename]"
(where [filename] is the name of the file you want) in place of the dir
line. The file will be broken into messages with a maximum size
of 45000 bytes.

To get the latest image beta you would use the command
"get /pub/image/image150_beta51.hqx".

For details on using this ftp mail server, the following
message will get you the help file:

reply <your email address>
chunksize 45000
help
quit

--wayne


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed May 19 14:04:14 1993
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 14:04:14 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: automatic fileprocessing

>I would like to use Image to process several files during the night.
>I understood that this is possible and wonder if one of you could give 
>me an example how it can be done. I would like to do the following things:
>-background correction (e.g. 2d ball)
>-sharpening
>-thresholding ( is it possible to do this automatically, e.g. with 
>Isodata threshold method?)
>-skeletonizing the binary picture
>-counting the number of pixels in the skeletons (would it also be 
>possible to discard skeletons smaller than e.g. 5 pixels?.

Something like the enclosed macro should do the job.

--wayne


macro 'Process Files ';
var
  n,nFiles,i,PixelCount:integer;
begin
  nFiles:=GetNumber('Number of Files:',1);
  SetUser1Label('Count');
  for n:=1 to nFiles do begin
    Open(n:3); {Names must be in the form '001','002, etc.}
    SubtractBackground('2D Rolling Ball',25);
    Sharpen;
    AutoThreshold;
    ApplyLUT;
    Skeletonize;
    SetParticleSize(5,999999);
    AnalyzeParticles;
    PixelCount:=0;
    for I:=1 to rCount do PixelCount:=PixelCount+rArea[i];
    Dispose;
    rUser1[n]:=PixelCount; {Save count in user1}
  end;
  SetCounter(n);
  ShowResults;
end;




From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu May 20 11:41:31 1993
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 11:41:31 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Think C 4.0 example plug-ins 

I have modified the source for the example acquisition and filter plug-ins
on Zippy so they compile with Think C 4.0. The code is in the file
developers_kit.cpt.hqx(a self-extracting archive) in the plug-ins
directory. To get them to compile, I had to through out most of the
includes, remove the definition of 'nil' and rebuild the projects from
scratch. I also included the executables so people without Think C can try
them out.

--wayne


From sriram@owlnet.rice.edu  Thu May 20 07:06:34 1993
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From: Sriram Neelamegham <sriram@owlnet.rice.edu>
Message-Id: <9305201706.AA26226@flammulated.owlnet.rice.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: pre defined arrays


Wayne,
What changes do i have to make to the image source code in order that i am able to introduce some more pre defined arrays.... say rUser3 and rUser4?
I have made some changes to macro2.p and to global.p. I thik there are a few more modifications i need to make.

Sriram Neelamegham
Rice University, Houston

From mark@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au  Fri May 21 05:03:57 1993
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Date: Fri, 21 May 93 10:03:57 EST
From: mark@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au (Mark Jessel)
Message-Id: <9305210003.AA15087@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: plugins for think c ver 5.0.4


We have compiled the dissolve Plug In under think C ver 5.0.4
What follows is the results from a 'compare' of the original Plug In and the
Think C ver 5.0.4 version
File A = Dissolve.c orig
File B = Dissolve.c

Match Criterion = 6 lines.


***********************************
Mismatch:

File A, Lines 9 thru 24:

* #include <MacTypes.h>
* #include <MemoryMgr.h>
* #include <ResourceMgr.h>
* #include <Quickdraw.h>
* #include <Color.h>
* #include <DialogMgr.h>
* #include <OSUtil.h>
* #include <PackageMgr.h>
* #include <SysErr.h>
* #include <ToolboxUtil.h>
* #include <pascal.h>
* #include <SetUpA4.h>
* 
* #include "FilterInterface.h"
* 
* #define nil 0L

File B, Lines 9 thru 22:

* #include <Types.h>
* #include <Memory.h>
* #include <Resources.h>
* #include <Quickdraw.h>
* #include <Dialogs.h>
* #include <OSUtils.h>
* #include <Packages.h>
* #include <Errors.h>
* #include <ToolUtils.h>
* #include <pascal.h>
* #include <SetUpA4.h>
* 
* #include "FilterInterface.h"
* 



I hope this may be of help to someone.
Also you must remove the old MACTRAPS library and add the think C v 5.0.4 ones.

Cheers
    Andrew Matthews & Mark Jessell

From rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu  Fri May 21 03:41:01 1993
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From: rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu (Randall John Bateman)
Message-Id: <9305211341.AA03305@cec2.wustl.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Muscle content in image

Hi everyone,

I have just received a copy of image and I am trying to use it to give a
quantitative value of the amount of muscle shown on a cross section MRI
scan of the subjects' legs.  I am also having problems getting the program
to load my graphics files.  The files are from a GE MRI and were put on a
quadra 950 using ximage software provided by GE.  The images were tape
backuped using tar(is there a setting for binary using this?)  and uploaded
to our network using another Sun Sparcstation.  Now, the quadra has access
to the files on the network, but each file is different in size(by about
600 bytes).  Since each file is the same size(512 by 292) I thought they
should be the same size.  If anyone out there knows how to transfer the 
files correctly, or how to load them once they are transferred or knows how
to get a quantitative answer for the cross sectional area of the muscle(which
is darker than fat, bone, etc.)  your help would be greatly appreciated.

			Sincerely,

			Randall Bateman
			Mass Spectrometry Lab @ Washington University

From @VILL.EDU:mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu  Fri May 21 07:28:41 1993
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From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Message-Id: <9305211528.AA18711@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>
Subject: Flame color and its temperature
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 11:28:41 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 558       

I have noticed quite a few chemists on this net so this question may be 
appropriate here. I need to know if there is a correspondence between the 
color of a flame and its temperature. In other words, can you do a color 
analysis on video clips of a burner and come up with some quantitative 
temperature map?. If there is no one to one mapping, what are the options in 
determining such a map using image analysis techniques. Would IR serve as an 
alternative technique?. Thanks in advance.

Bijan Mobasseri
Computer Vision Laboratory
Villanova University

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri May 21 13:39:14 1993
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 13:39:14 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Mac Image Processing Packages

The following summary of Mac image processing programs was posted to the
sci.image.processing newsgroup on Usenet by Peter Clinch of the University
of Dundee, Scotland.

--wayne


There seem to be several people out there who want to know about
Mac Packages, so here's an edited list of replies I kept...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty happy with a package called DipStation.  I think you can also
make user code modules that are basically written in c.

        dip->contact = William H. Conner
                        whc@po.cwru.edu
                        (216) 721-2388 (USA)

BTW.  My only complaint is lack of user support.  The manual says that
they send out demo disk, and if you call to get one, tell him there's
someone
at UNC that emailed him about 3d render that would like to talk to him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
        As far as I know, there are two image processing applications
available on the Mac - one is freeware and the is a commercial program.

        The freeware is NIH Image - the latest version of which is
available via anonymous FTP at many Mac software sites (try
SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU, WUARCHIVE.WUSTL.EDU, or MAC.ARCHIVE.UMICH.EDU).
This is a great program to get started with on the Mac.  It supports
several common image-grabber boards and has a reasonably comprehensive set
of image manipulation/ analysis routines as part of the basic code.  It has
a limited, but useful, macro building ability to automate collections of
commands.  You can extend its functionality, but I think you have to use
Pascal, not C.  The program itself is written in Pascal.

        The commercial program is IPLab and is written and supported by a
company called Signal Analytics.  They are located somewhere in Virginia,
USA - I'm at home now and don't have a manual readily available.  They are
available over the Internet via AppleLink.  This is a package that we've
used extensively over the last year to automate the analysis of
immunofluorescence images of tissue sections.  It has a relatively flexible
macro building capability that we've used often.  IPLab contains hooks
which enable you to create code extensions in Think C/Pascal or MPW
C/Pascal.  We've done all our programming in Think C (from Symantec) and
have had very good luck getting the program to do what we want it to do.
NIH Image is a wonderful program written and supported by a very talented
programmer at the NIH, but IPLab has a whole company working to expand it.
They advertise it as a scientific imaging tool, so they are keyed into the
needs of research imaging systems.  They have also recently hired a
biophyicist to help tailor IPLab for use on ratio imaging systems (ion
sensitive dye measurements in single cells - e.g., FURA, BCECF,etc.).  I
have had a great deal of personal contact with them while writing code
extensions for IPLab, and they have been very helpful.  They are also
available as consultants for a fee, so if you have a specific functionality
you need to add to the program, you can hire them to do it for you.  The
program itself contains extensive image processing routines; we have rarely
had to resort to writing our own code.  When we have, it was to do
something trivial.  They have very efficient versions of most of the
standard image processing filters already written into the basic package.
The program also supports a large array of frame-grabber boards and a very
powerful set of NuBus Image array processing boards (made by a company
called  Perceptics).  I believe the current price for a single user version
of IPLab is ~$1200.  For another $120/year, you get free bi-annual upgrades
and unlimited support services via phone (not very practical for you) or
Internet (they always get back to me within two days when I send them
e-mail).

P.S.: I found my annual product guide issue of Science.  Here's Signal
Analytics vital stats:

        Signal Analytics Corp.
        374 Maple Ave, East
        Suite 204
        Vienna, VA    22180
        (703) 281-3277
        (703) 281-2509 [FAX]

        You know, there are a few other packages available for the Mac.
I've forgotten about them, because we've become so attached to IPLab.  One
is by a company called Biological Detection Systems in Pittsburgh,PA.  They
are a company that has been around in one form or another for the last 5
years or so.  It was formed to capitalize on technology developed at
Carnegie-Mellon's Center for Fluorescence Studies.  The package they sell
is a turnkey system that comes with a computer.  The main product is the
software, however, and includes such niceties as removal of
out-of-focal-plane light to de-blur images and 3-D reconstruction of a
spatial series of images.  Their software is at least $10,000 for the basic
package, and it can be much more than that depending on how many of their
add-ons you buy.  Axon Instruments [(415)571-9500 {FAX}] and Jandel
Scientific [(800) 874-1888] both have general purpose Mac imaging packages
available, but I don't know anything about them, because they have come out
in the last year, after we bought IPLab.  The most widely available
commercial Mac imaging software is a package tailored for use in
computer-aided manufacturing.  It is designed to interface well with video
input devices that can be used to monitor and evaluate the manufacturing
process.  The name of this system slips my mind - I think it's Image
Analyst -, but it is also more expensive than IPLab, and not quite
tailored to the needs of basic research.  It uses a set of libraries called
MacRail which were written specifically for imaging processing and video
control systems.  Finally, the National Center for Supercomputing
Applications at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign has created a
large variety of data visualization tools and are starting to do more
direct work with image processing.  Most of their packages are available in
commercial form(and some as freeware) for the Mac.  They would be a good
source for advice, as well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Currently I am using "Image Analyst" by Automatix for image processing
in fluid mechanics.  Seems to work quite well.  I have a RasterOps
frame grabber in my Mac IIfx and the images are taken directly from a
video source.

There is a version called "Image Analyst/Source" which has a high
level developers environment incorporated into the package.  It supports
user-written C programs and Automatix C libraries.  As well it uses
a generic macro language called RAIL as an interpretive image
processing and control language.

Contacts are Automatix Inc.
755 Middlesex Turnpike
Billerica, MA 01821
508/667 7900, Fx. 508/663-5482,   or

Automatix Int. UK Ltd.
Fairfield Court
Unit 2
Wheler Road
Coventry CV3 4LJ
44 203 639609, fx. 44 203 639 010

------------------------------------------------------------------------

NIH Image is the "standard" free software environment for Macs.  I do
not know if it is extendable in C.

Image Analyst is a very good commerical package, particularly for
dimensional measurements. However you write in an intrepreted lanuage
call MacRAIL.  I can provide a contact if you want further
information.

Alternatively you could use the Mac as a X terminal and run a UNIX
based image processing routine which provides the features your
require.  I use Khoros.  Khoros, by the way, runs on Mac's with AUX
and X11.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Biological Detection Systems has a system like this: BDS-Image. Very
powerful, aimed at the microscopy market. You should call our sales
people at 301-990-0100 (USA) and ask for some information, or write to:

        Biological Detection Systems
        15200 Omega Drive, Suite 105
        Rockville MD 20850
        Phone (301) 990-0100
        FAX (301) 990-8391

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, National Instuments LabView for Mac also has many function which can
be used for IP. Similarly, you could check out Momentum Data Systems at
(714) 557-6884.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've taken out some of the repeated information.
Thanks to all those who sent it to me, and I hope people find this useful.

Pete.

p.s. sorry for the blip at the start, with this as a followup rather than
the posting, but if I say I'm using vi I'm sure you'll understand :-)

-- 
Peter Clinch					University of Dundee
phone 44 382 (voice) 60111 x 2050 (fax) 632970	Department of Medical
Physics
email pjclinch@dux.dundee.ac.uk			Ninewells Hospital
						Dundee, DD1 9SY, Scotland, UK


From tom@otter.biochem.ubc.ca  Fri May 21 05:11:54 1993
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: tom jovin <tom@otter.biochem.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: Mac Image Processing Packages
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9305211851.AA23610@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
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There are two other image processing programs that can run on Mac
platforms (as well as on SUN, PC, etc.). They were developed at the
Technical University of Delft and in the University ofb Amsterdam and in
my estimation provide the greatest functionality of any other systems
known to me. I use these programs in combination with NIH-Image because
the latter program has the best implementation of cursor-driven functions
(but lacks certain essential features, for example the ability to deal
with 16-bit or floating formats). The programs in question are TCL-Image
and SCIL-Image. They (or at least TCL-Image) are distributed by Perceptics
in the US (or was) and in Europe by Multihouse (Amsterdam). There are
brand new revisions of these programs with significant enhancements.

     tom jovin





From SBK111@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU  Sun May 23 20:05:00 1993
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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 00:05 EDT
From: Barr Kum <SBK111@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mac Image Processing Packages
To: nih-image@soils.umn.Edu
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Someone had asked a question on color mapping temperature (Ive deleted the
queston). I imagine techniques where Sea Surface Temperature is mapped
using IR would be applicable. 
The general outline is
1) Normalise the data which will include transmission path, angle of deection
2) Calibrate the data to known temperature
3) All data afterwards that is normalised can be used to measure temperature

Send me e-mail if you need any details or references

Barr-Kum

From @VILL.EDU:mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu  Mon May 24 05:15:58 1993
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From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Message-Id: <9305241315.AA28273@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>
Subject: Color and temperature
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 09:15:58 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <30B0570F789F804081@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU> from "Barr Kum" at May 23, 93 11:37:38 pm
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> 
> 
> Someone had asked a question on color mapping temperature (Ive deleted the
> queston). I imagine techniques where Sea Surface Temperature is mapped
> using IR would be applicable. 
> The general outline is
> 1) Normalise the data which will include transmission path, angle of deection
> 2) Calibrate the data to known temperature
> 3) All data afterwards that is normalised can be used to measure temperature
> 
> Send me e-mail if you need any details or references
> 
> Barr-Kum
> 
-------------
Yes, I would appreciate any references on IR imaging/photogrpahy. You may post 
here or directly to mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu.

Bijan

From rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu  Mon May 24 04:50:35 1993
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From: rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu (Randall John Bateman)
Message-Id: <9305241450.AA07163@cec2.wustl.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Cross sectional area


I wrote several days ago concerning the image software and I questioned
how to use it to find the cross sectional area of muscle(the darker pixels
of the image).  If anyone knows of any way to do this, please let me know.

Thanks, 		Randall Bateman

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Mon May 24 15:15:31 1993
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 15:15:31 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Cross sectional area

>I wrote several days ago concerning the image software and I questioned
>how to use it to find the cross sectional area of muscle(the darker pixels
>of the image).  If anyone knows of any way to do this, please let me know.

First use Set Scale to spatially calibrate the image so that the Measure
command will report areas in real-world units such as square millimeters.
Then try using thresholding to isolate the muscle from the rest of the
image. Do this by double-clicking on the LUT tool and manipulating the red
bar in the LUT window until the muscle is highlighted in red. If this
works, use the Measure command and it will report the area of the red
portion of the image(i.e., the muscle).  If this doesn't work, use the line
selection tool to manually outline the muscle. Read the description of the
line selection tool in the manual to find out how to create irregular
selections.

--wayne


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Mon May 24 12:33:15 1993
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 24 May 1993 17:33:13 EDT
Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 17:33:15 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Re: Mac Image Processing Packages
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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>I'm pretty happy with a package called DipStation.  I think you can also
>make user code modules that are basically written in c.
>
>        dip->contact = William H. Conner
>                        whc@po.cwru.edu
>                        (216) 721-2388 (USA)
>

The new address as of last summer is 

303-939-0067
HIPG
P.O. Box 3092
Boulder Colorado 80303-3092

--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu  Mon May 24 12:34:51 1993
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From: rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu (Randall John Bateman)
Message-Id: <9305242234.AA09554@cec2.wustl.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re: Cross sectional area

Thanks for all of your help.  I just got the image to load on the program
after excluding the file header info.  It is a 256 by 256 matrix and is 
16 bit signed.  I have been able to get the results I needed.

Once again, thanks all.


				-Randall Bateman
				Washington University Mass Spect. Lab
P.S.  If anyone works with a GE MRI and needs any help porting the image,
just write me: rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu

P.P.S.  The ximage is a util to extract the image portion out of a database
that can't be accessed otherwise and was kindly supplied by GE.

From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Mon May 24 14:57:26 1993
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 24 May 1993 19:57:24 EDT
Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 19:57:26 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Improved PC-VCR support
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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I recently prepared a video tape which displayed slides from one stack, and
then stopped the tape, loaded a large stack, displayed it as a movie, etc.

WITH automatic centering of the window and hiding everything except the
title bar (i.e. almost as good as photo mode).

The source changes and macro file are in the contrib directory on zippy. 
(Source changes are displayed as output of MPW compare against the original
1.49 source), in a text file named video_presentation_1_49.txt or something
close to that.

Two macros were added:  one to start or end "photo mode" (except title bar
of window is still shown), and another to resize a window.  The resize
window macro might not be completely robust, i.e. you might be able to
cause a crash with bad parameters, but it got the job done.  If you hit
command period while the macro is running, the display is a little
confusing, since the menu bar stays hidden until you do something that
redraws it.  This could be fixed by adding a check at macro exit for an
unterminated photo mode macro.
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com  Tue May 25 03:19:25 1993
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Date: Tue, 25 May 93 07:19:25 EDT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: RE: Cross sectional areas

>I wrote several days ago concerning the image software and I questioned
>how to use it to find the cross sectional area of muscle(the darker pixels
>of the image).  If anyone knows of any way to do this, please let me know.


Perhaps my limited experience with image analysis would
be of some help here:

1) Establish a scale depending on the magnification of
your video source (see manual)

2) Play with the video control chanels to select the one
that best highlights my object of interest.

3) Use the density slice command to identify (select?)
the particle(s) of interest according to its (their)
level of grey.

4) Selecting "options" from the "analyze" menu, make
sure that "area" is selected. Then select "measure" from
the same menu (If there is only one particle of
interest) or "analyse particles" (if more than 1).

5) You can also use the "magic wand" set at automeasure
(from the options dialogue box, "analyze menu") and go
clicking on the particles of interest, if you want to
discriminate particles.

6) To determine the area of the field of interest (the
Image window), select all and then measure. This is in
case you want to determine a ratio of # or particles per
field.

7) If you use the video control, you might select areas
contained into other areas and discriminate them using
the chanels as filters of colors to deemphasize or
emphasize particles. In the "options" menu you may
select "ignore particle holes" if the particle is
doughnut-shaped.

Juan I. Sarmiento
Department of Toxicology and Pathology
Hoffmann-La Roche, INC.
340 Kingsland street
Nutley, NJ 07110
(201) 235 43 42

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue May 25 08:11:32 1993
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Message-Id: <9305251323.AA27245@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 08:11:32 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Improved PC-VCR support

>Two macros were added:  one to start or end "photo mode" (except title bar
>of window is still shown), and another to resize a window.  The resize
>window macro might not be completely robust, i.e. you might be able to
>cause a crash with bad parameters, but it got the job done.  If you hit
>command period while the macro is running, the display is a little
>confusing, since the menu bar stays hidden until you do something that
>redraws it.  This could be fixed by adding a check at macro exit for an
>unterminated photo mode macro.

v1.50b52(on Zippy) has a macro command for enabling and disabling "photo
mode". It also has a check at macro exit for an unterminated photo mode
macro.

--wayne


From eran@fnth06.fnal.gov  Tue May 25 11:40:28 1993
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From: Eran Yehudai <eran@fnth06.fnal.gov>
Message-Id: <9305252140.AA07640@fnth06.fnal.gov>
Subject: Dumping a table of actual vs. calibrated grey levels
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Tue, 25 May 93 16:40:28 CDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

Does anyone know of a simple method (macro or otherwise) of dumping a
table of actual vs. calibrated grey levels (with actual levels taking
every value from 0 to 255)?

Thanks,

Eran Yehudai

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue May 25 16:48:41 1993
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Message-Id: <9305252200.AA28338@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 16:48:41 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Dumping a table of actual vs. calibrated grey levels

>Does anyone know of a simple method (macro or otherwise) of dumping a
>table of actual vs. calibrated grey levels (with actual levels taking
>every value from 0 to 255)?

I have enclosed a macro(it's from the file "Measurement Macros") that
generates a table of actual vs. calibrated values.

--wayne


macro 'Display Calibration Table';
{
Stores 0-255(all possible gray values) in the User1 column
and the 256 corresponding calibrated values in the User2 column.
Max Measurements must be set to 256 or greater. Use the Export
command to export the calibration table to a text file. The two
columns will be identical if the image is not calibrated.
}
var
  i:integer;
  v:real;
begin
  RequiresVersion(1.44);
  SetCounter(256);
  SetUser1Label('value');
  SetUser2Label('cvalue');
  for i:=0 to 255 do begin
    rUser1[i+1]:=i;
    rUser2[i+1]:=cvalue(i);
  end;
  ShowResults;
end;




From bonnot@jouy.inra.fr  Wed May 26 13:27:29 1993
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 13:27:29 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: bonnot@jouy.inra.fr
Subject: Re: V1.50b51 beta and Filter plug-ins


>*Supports Photoshop filter plug-ins
>*Uses submenus for plug-ins

>Please let me know what acquisition and filter plug-ins seem to work so I
>can add them to the list in the Change History file.
>

We bought (before our discovery of Image) a QuickImage 24 Video frame
graber card from MASS Microsystems. This card comes with its own driver and
a Photoshop plug-in QI/Photoshop v 1.6 is also provided . The Plug-in
allows capture from within Photoshop as well as from Image but in a blind
way because the video preview does not work in both cases (the preview
window is awfully unstable). As the ability to capture frames from Image is
interesting for us, I shall ask to the card seller to find a solution to
this problem.
########################################################
# Guy Bonnot              phone: +33 - 72 43 83 56  #
# INRA - INSA                  fax: +33 - 72 43 85 11  #
# Biologie 406           internet: bonnot@lyon.inra.fr #
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########################################################


From Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu  Wed May 26 06:42:38 1993
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Date: 26 May 1993 07:43:01 U
From: "Carl Gustafson" <Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
Subject: Plug-ins
To: "image listserv  " <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

                       Subject:                               Time:7:41 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Plug-ins                               Date:5/26/93
I have tried Image 1.50b48 with the Agfa PhotoScan 2.12 plugin (for the Arcus
scanner).
Works fine; you can add it to the list of acquisition plug-ins.



From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Wed May 26 07:00:17 1993
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Date: 26 May 1993 08:01:54 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Plug-ins
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ RE>Plug-ins
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
If you try all the fancy filters that come with Photoshop 2.0.1, you get the
fairly predictable dialog saying:
"This filter requires features of Photoshop 2.0" or something similar.
Too bad :-(



From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Wed May 26 16:04:30 1993
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Date:    Wed, 26 May 93 16:04:30 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930526160430.204044b1@m5.sdsc.edu>
Subject: RE: Plug-ins
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

Is there a Plug-In for the HP Scanners?

Harvey Karten

 Harvey J. Karten, M.D.
 Dept. Neurosciences 
 UCSD 0608
 La Jolla, CA 92093 
 Phone (619)-534-4938 
 FAX (619)-534-6602 
 E-Mail KARTENH@SDSC.EDU

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed May 26 11:30:05 1993
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 11:30:05 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: RE: Plug-ins

>Is there a Plug-In for the HP Scanners?

A recent issue of MacWorld(or perhaps MacUser) had a review of scanners and
the HP Scanjet was the only scanner tested that did not come with a
Photoshop plug-in.

--wayne



From JCAIRA@UCONNVM.BITNET  Sun May 26 07:53:09 1993
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   unsubscribe jcaira@uconnvm.uconn.edu

From TATE@FAXCSL.DCRT.NIH.GOV  Wed May 26 10:55:16 1993
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 14:55:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ramon Tate <TATE@FAXCSL.DCRT.NIH.GOV>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <930526145516.20a02782@FAXCSL.DCRT.NIH.GOV>
Subject: Image Tutorial (and docs in general)

   As part of an effort to improve our ability to support image processing
in our in-house Scientific Computing Resource Center, I've undertaken a
collaboration with Wayne Rasband to improve and expand the available Image
documentation. At the top of the "To Do" list is a tutorial that will help
the novice or occasional Image user do many of the common image processing
tasks.
   To that end, I'm asking for comments on the appended outline for
such a Tutorial Manual. Since we believe that good examples are essential,
I would also appreciate the contribution of SMALL images that could be used
as subject matter for the proposed tutorial categories. HOWEVER, please do
not send the images to either of us yet - just a note about what you have to
offer will suffice for now; we will be in contact with potential contributors
when we determine what we will need.

Please reply by email and I will summarize to the mailing list.

[Also in the planning: a macro manual and a revised user's reference manual.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proposed IMAGE Tutorial Manual Elements

Starting Up
  Hardware Considerations
  Installation
  Memory Management Tips
  
Image Fundamentals
  What Is a Digital Image?
  Calibration Topics
  Printing Digital Images

Tutorials
  Image Modifications
  Basic Measurements
  Gel Image Analysis
  Particle Measurements
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ramon L. Tate, Ph.D.            "Eschew equimagnitudinal contraincrementation."
Division of Computer                                  - Richard Shrager
  Research and Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892    USA                   tate@faxcsl.dcrt.nih.gov

From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Wed May 26 11:00:28 1993
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 26 May 1993 16:00:31 EDT
Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 16:00:28 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: UserCode interface extension
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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The timer support I posted to zippy.nimh.nih.gov in /pub/image/contrib
also had a change to the UserCode interface.  I have thought about this,
and decided on suggesting a different change, for which I have code
and will be uploading maybe next week.

The proposal is:
(1)  UserCode takes a variable number of arguments.  I implemented this
without need to call putback token.  

(2)  The maximum number is of arguments is five:  

UserCode(selector:integer;p1,p2,p3:real;str:string);

(3)  Selector value zero is defined to give the correct selector code
to use to call a named routine, i.e.

Conv16To8 := UserCode(0,0,0,0,'Conv16To8');

Then later write UserCode(Conv16To8,p1,p2,p3);

This also has the advantage that if a different version of Image is used,
probably the routine names will be different...  Users would be prudent to
put a version check in so their macros check to see that the proper user.p
is included before trying to use usercode.

(4)  UserFunc(selector:integer,p1,p2,p3:real;str:string):real is also defined.
The same selector codes are used, in fact, the same code is executed.

(5)  UserStr(selector:integer,p1,p2,p3:real;str:string):string is also defined,
to permit user code to return a string.

Send me any comments, or suggestions for further refinements in design. 
This version has less runtime overhead than the previous design, and is
upward compatible with existing calls to UserCode.

Also, from User.p, now you can pass strings back to MacroError.  (Since
User.p comes before Macros in the build order, MacroError cannot be called

From within user.p.  I fixed this by putting a var string argument to the
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From: philp@physiol.su.oz.au (Philip Poronnik)
Message-Id: <9305262306.AA01396@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: calcium ratioing and Image-VDM


We have just bought a Perceptics Pipeline board and are trying to start up
ratiometric Ca measurments using Image-VDM.  This means acquiring two images,
subtracting the correpsonding background from each and then dividing one by the
other. The problem is that the program as it stands does not do division of two images.  Has anyone out there already adapted Image-VDM for such operations or
had any experience with such applications?  

Any help would be much appreciated!

From scudder@cpac.washington.edu  Wed May 26 11:10:59 1993
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Subject: Re: calcium ratioing and Image-VDM 
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Wed, 26 May 93 18:10:59 PDT
In-Reply-To: <9305262306.AA01396@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au>; from "Philip Poronnik" at May 26, 93 5:38 pm
X-Mailer: Pine [version 0.9.532]


Dumb idea - can you take the log of both images and subtract them, then
take the anti-log of the resulting image? Seem you would have to work 
in reals, not 8-bit integers.



In <9305262306.AA01396@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au>, Philip Poronnik writes:
> 
> 
> We have just bought a Perceptics Pipeline board and are trying to start up
> ratiometric Ca measurments using Image-VDM.  This means acquiring two images,
> subtracting the correpsonding background from each and then dividing one by the
> other. The problem is that the program as it stands does not do division of two images.  Has anyone out there already adapted Image-VDM for such operations or
> had any experience with such applications?  
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated!
> 
> 

From mschindl@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE  Thu May 27 15:45:58 1993
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Date: Thu, 27 May 93 13:45:58 +0200
From: Mathias.Schindl@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE
Message-Id: <9305271145.AA10840@ss3.cip.physik.tu-muenchen.de>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re:  calcium ratioing and Image-VDM

In <9305262306.AA01396@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au>, Philip Poronnik writes:
>
>
> We have just bought a Perceptics Pipeline board and are trying to start up
> ratiometric Ca measurments using Image-VDM.  This means acquiring two images,
> subtracting the correpsonding background from each and then dividing one by th
e
> other. The problem is that the program as it stands does not do division of tw
o images.  Has anyone out there already adapted Image-VDM for such operations or
> had any experience with such applications?
>
> Any help would be much appreciated!
>
>

I suppose you've got the version 1.44 of Image VDM with your Perceptics board.
This program is indeed capable of doing a division between two images:
Open the two image-windows and select "Show Paste Control" from the "Windows"
menu. Then activate and select the first image (press Command-A), press
Command-C to copy the image to the clipboard. Now activate the second image
and press Command-V (or select "Paste" from the Edit-menu) to paste the clip-
board contents. Finally press the button "Divide" on the Paste Control.
Of course the results of your division will be a little bit disappointing
because they consist only of the closest integer value in the 0-255 range.
You can improve the results by checking the "Scale Math" box in the Paste
Control which causes your results to be scaled to fit best in the available
range. This is much better, but puts you into problems if you need the absolute
values.
I don't see any other solution with Image VDM as it is, because Image doesn't
support Image buffers with floating point values.
For more elegant solutions you would have to do some programming on your own.
Therefore you would have to buy the PixelTools Developers Kit from Perceptics
which includes the full sources of the Image VDM program and comes for $595.

Mathias Schindl
Physik-Department TU Muenchen

From mhaury@pasteur.fr  Thu May 27 17:25:56 1993
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 15:25:56 +0200
Message-Id: <199305271325.AA14258@mendel.sis.pasteur.fr>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: mhaury@pasteur.fr (Matthias Haury)
Subject: NIH Image For PC

Hallo everybody out there...

I am very interested to know whether there exists a NIH Image equivalent
for the IBM PC (preferably for Windows). I heard some rumors about it, but
I can't find a server to download it. If anybody has information I would
really appreciate it.
Furthermore, I also heard rumors that there is another image program from
the MUNICH University, I would also appreciate if anybody knows about it
and can tell me where to obtain it (by FTP).

Thanks a lot...

Matthias
------------------------
Matthias Haury
Institut Pasteur
25 rue du Doctor Roux
75724 PARIS CEDEX 15
Tel: (33)-1-45.68.84.21
Fax: (33)-1-45.68.86.39
EMail: mhaury@pasteur.fr


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu May 27 09:25:51 1993
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 09:25:51 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: NIH Image For PC

>I am very interested to know whether there exists a NIH Image equivalent
>for the IBM PC (preferably for Windows). I heard some rumors about it, but
>I can't find a server to download it. If anybody has information I would
>really appreciate it.

There is no Windows version of NIH Image and I don't know of any equivalent
Windows programs.

>Furthermore, I also heard rumors that there is another image program from
>the MUNICH University, I would also appreciate if anybody knows about it
>and can tell me where to obtain it (by FTP).

There is a spinoff of NIH Image called MunichImage. It is available by
anonymous FTP from zippy.nimh.nih.gov, in the /pub/image/image_spinoffs
directory.

--wayne


From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com  Fri May 28 03:12:37 1993
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Date: Fri, 28 May 93 07:12:37 EDT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Mac-based IMAGE and dedicated Image Systems.

This questions have come to mind when comparing the Mac 
with a dedicated image analysis system marketed by Zeiss 
named IBAS.

Months back Joseph Ayers promised an update to COLOR 
IMAGE which would make it compatible with a Quadra 950 
and that he would post it in the zippy directory. Has 
this been done yet?

Can Image commands be used to direct a microscope stage 
controller?

Is there a way to record a series of menu choices or 
steps taken in the NIH-IMAGE as you work, rather than in 
a word processor using the macro language? would a 
program such as Quickeys accomplish that? and then after 
done, could you edit the thus created macro??

Juan I. Sarmiento
Department of Toxicology and Pathology
Hoffmann-La Roche, INC.
340 Kingsland street
Nutley, NJ 07110
(201) 235 43 42
Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.COM

From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com  Fri May 28 03:14:54 1993
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From: sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com
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Date: Fri, 28 May 93 07:14:54 EDT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re: NIH Image For PC

>I am very interested to know whether there exists a NIH Image equivalent
>for the IBM PC (preferably for Windows). I heard some rumors about it, but
>I can't find a server to download it. If anybody has information I would
>really appreciate it.

There might be several PC based, relatively inexpensive 
programs out there. I now that Data translation (used to 
market an image capturing card for the Mac) is now marketing 
several cards for PC and Windows-compatible software which is 
also pretty used-friendly. I decided against it because the 
IMAGE, in my opinion is far superior in power and ease of 
use.

The IBAS analysis system, by Zeiss, is a PC-based dedicated 
system with all the equipment you can imaging for image 
analysis. Unfortunately is extremely expensive and archaic 
when it comes to utilization. Support, documentation and user 
friendliness are dismal.

Roche image analysis systems is now marketing a PC-Based 
system for image analysis called Roche Pathology Workstation. 
As the name indicates, this system is especialized in 
Pathology morphometry, and probably very expensive.

Juan I. Sarmiento
Department of Toxicology and Pathology
Hoffmann-La Roche, INC.
340 Kingsland street
Nutley, NJ 07110
(201) 235 43 42
Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.COM


From pekr@research.novo.dk  Fri May 28 15:56:28 1993
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Date: Fri, 28 May 93 13:56:28 +0200
Message-Id: <9305281156.AA21090@nngate.novo.dk>
From: pekr@research.novo.dk (Peter Kristensen)
To: internet::nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: Pekr@nngate.novo.dk
Subject: Name of window in macro ?

When using IMAGE for counting cells, I would like to make a macro that 
copies the name of the current window together with the number of cells
(value of rCount) onto the clipboard. Does anybody have a suggestion of
how to do that ?
sincerely
Peter Kristensen
Novo Nordisk Research
Denmark
(pekr@research.novo.dk)


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Date: Fri, 28 May 93 08:25:32 EDT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Images via phone

 There is at least one image analysis system for pathologists out there 
(one of  those $100,000 image analysis systems) which is claimed to be 
able to transmit,  at lightning speed, light microscopy pathology images 
over the phone to  pathologists at the other end. I realize you could 
probably compress an image  with disk doubler or stuffit and send it via 
modem but, how fast can this be? and  is there a way to right a macro to

accomplish this?? Can somebody without image but with another 
program, such as Adobe  photoshop get dissent color images in this way?

Juan I. Sarmiento
Department of Toxicology and Pathology
 Hoffmann-La Roche, INC.
 340 Kingsland street
 Nutley, NJ 07110
 (201) 235 43 42
Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.COM  

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri May 28 13:28:19 1993
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 13:28:19 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Name of window in macro ?

>When using IMAGE for counting cells, I would like to make a macro that 
>copies the name of the current window together with the number of cells
>(value of rCount) onto the clipboard. Does anybody have a suggestion of
>how to do that ?
>sincerely
 
There is a macro command for setting the window name(SetPicName), but no
corresponding routine for getting the window name. There is, however,  a
routine for copying measurement results to the clipboad(CopyResults).
Unfortunately, you can only store numbers in the results table, not text.
You could try using sequence numbers for the file names and copying the
number and the count to the User1 and User2 arrays.

--wayne


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri May 28 13:39:14 1993
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 13:39:14 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Stage control and macro recording.

>Can Image commands be used to direct a microscope stage 
>controller?

Macros can be written to drive stage controllers that use an RS-232 ports,
such as the Newport PMC200-P programmable 2-axis
motion controller

>Is there a way to record a series of menu choices or 
>steps taken in the NIH-IMAGE as you work, rather than in 
>a word processor using the macro language? would a 
>program such as Quickeys accomplish that? and then after 
>done, could you edit the thus created macro??

Image does not have a built-in macro recorder, but you could probably use
QuickKeys to record operations in Image and play them back later. The next
1.50 beta version will have a built-in text editor, eliminating the need to
use separate word processor or editor for creating and editing macros.

--wayne


From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Fri May 28 13:46:27 1993
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Date: 28 May 1993 14:47:40 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Stage control and macro
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ RE>>Stage control and macro 
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
 The next1.50 beta version will have a built-in text editor, eliminating the
need to use separate word processor or editor for creating and editing macros.
Excellent Wayne!!  Thanks!


--wayne



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From: wayne%zippy.nimh.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu (Wayne Rasband)
To: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Stage control and macro recording.





From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Fri May 28 11:12:13 1993
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Date: Fri, 28 May 93 15:12:13 -0400
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From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
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Subject: Re: macro recording.

> The next
>1.50 beta version will have a built-in text editor, eliminating the need to
>use separate word processor or editor for creating and editing macros.

All of us here at NIH have decided that wayne is too valuable to ever spend
time sleeping, or God forbid ever die. We have therefore embarked on a plan
to first make several clones of wayne and invent ways of supplying his
brain with automatic relaxation so that he (they) needen't ever sleep.

Mark


From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU  Fri May 28 05:22:58 1993
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From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien)
Message-Id: <9305281922.AA27031@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re: name of window in macro?


Now that the macro language has some string capabilities, would it be
possible to add a GetPicName() function? Several times I have thought
this would be useful: you could then name windows with processed images
after the parent image. For instance, a smoothing macro could take a
window called "Face", smooth it, and put the results in "Face Smoothed".

Chi-Bin Chien

chien@jeeves.ucsd.edu

From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Fri May 28 11:11:27 1993
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 28 May 1993 16:11:29 EDT
Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 16:11:27 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: RE: macro recording.
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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>> The next
>>1.50 beta version will have a built-in text editor, eliminating the need to
>>use separate word processor or editor for creating and editing macros.
>
Cloning Wayne is one purpose of this list.  We need volunteers for the
following project.  Also, we need some way to deal with multiple people
working on the same source code at once.  (That may be the hard part).

Macro recording is not terribly difficult, given that there is a
macro command for every menu item.  To do it, we need a global variable
"MacroRecorder: Boolean" and a menu item "Start Recorder" which changes
to "Stop Recorder" when MacroRecorder is true.  Then, for every menu
item chosen, in Image.p, add "if MacroRecorder then emitMacro('propercommand');"
or emitMacro('{<menu item name not automated yet>}');

Also, the StartRecorder item prompts for a macro name, and appends to
a macro text buffer 'macro ''name'';begin' and StopRecorder appends
'end;'.

The major work in the above project is identifying the string which belongs
inside the emitMacro call.

Of course, adding this feature will make certain shortcomings of the macro
language obvious, like the inability to select tools...

The emitMacro function itself is done as follows:

add a new global variable MacroRecorderTextHandle which points to a block
of ram allocated with getBigHandle, and MacroRecorderTextSize and
MacroRecorderTextOffset.  Start recorder would allocate the handle.
Also add a new menu item CopyRecorder which copies the contents of
the macro recorder text buffer to the clipboard.  emitMacro then just
checks to see that the handle exists, checks to see that there is enough
space, and copies the text into the buffer.  

I think this will be worth doing, since it should shorten the learning curve
till someone can begin writing macros from scratch.

Also, we need online help for writing macros.  The online help package from
Disinfectant (available by FTP from John Nostrand) would be great.  At the
moment, I usually keep microsoft word open to the macro appendix or copy
that into another text editor...  Some user out there ought to put together
the text that would go into online help, basically a macro reference:  list
of all functions in alphabetical order, and in the logical order...
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com  Fri May 28 15:50:01 1993
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Date: 28 May 1993 16:32:28 U
From: "Norm Hurst" <norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com>
Subject: HDTV Grand Alliance Press r
To: "NIH Image user group" <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

HDTV Grand Alliance Press release                         5/28/93
                                                                     4:24 PM
Advisory Committee 
On Advanced Television Service

For immediate release:  May 24, 1993

HDTV "Grand Alliance" Proposal
Will be Considered by FCC Advisory Committee

Washington, D.C.  The Federal Communications Commission's  Advisory Committee
on Advanced Television Service  (established by the Commission in 1987) will
review a  single digital high definition television (HDTV) system  proposed
today by a "Grand Alliance" of entities that,  until now, had sponsored the
four remaining competitive  HDTV systems.  These entities (AT&T, the David
Sarnoff  Research Center, General Instrument, Massachusetts  Institute of
Technology (MIT), North American Philips,  Thomson Consumer Electronics, and
Zenith Electronics)  today reached a business and technical agreement and 
submitted to the Committee a merged system proposal.

The proposed system, if recommended by the Advisory  Committee and adopted by
the  FCC, could place the U.S. in  the forefront of high definition video
technology.  An all-digital standard, which would facilitate interoperability
among broadcasting, cable, computer, and telecommunications technologies, has
worldwide potential.

Advisory Committee Chairman Richard E. Wiley, who had  encouraged the complex
negotiations leading to the  agreement, said "I believe the Grand Alliance
proposal,  subject to Advisory Committee and ultimate FCC approval,  will help
to conclude a process that has fostered the  development of highly advanced
digital HDTV technology.   The members of the Alliance should be commended for
their  accomplishments."  Wiley added that the benefits of the  Grand Alliance
include development of a digital system  incorporating the best elements of the
four systems and  acceleration of HDTV service implementation.  The FCC's 
Advisory Committee endorsed the Alliance concept at a  meeting in February.

Important aspects of the Grand Alliance technical proposal  submitted today
include the employment of progressive scan transmission (where entire picture
frames are transmitted  sequentially) and the use of so-called "square pixels" 
(where the dots on a television screen are arranged in  equally spaced rows and
columns).  Both of these design  aspects are important for the interoperability
of HDTV  with computers, telecommunications, and other media and  applications.
 Interlaced scan transmission (as deployed in today's TV systems) would also be
accommodated in the initial deployment(1).

Specifically, the proponents agree that all large-screen  HDTV receivers (34
inches in diagonal and above) will  incorporate a 60 frame per second 787.5
line or higher  progressive scan display mode.  Progressive display would  be
optional initially for smaller screen receivers.  The  proponents also concur
that all transmission of film  material will be in a progressive scan format
beginning  immediately upon the commencement of HDTV service.   Finally, the
Grand Alliance proponents unanimously endorse  the objective of migrating the
standard to a high line  number (i.e. thousand-line plus) progressive scan 
transmission as soon as feasible, and will work together  to eliminate
interlaced scanning format from the  transmission path in the future.

To support multiple transmission formats, the merged  system will feature
source adaptive processing.  Moreover,  to promote system flexibility and
extensibility, the  merged system also will feature a prioritized, packetized 
data transport structure.  Additionally, the Grand  Alliance entities agree to
support the Alliance's proposed  HDTV compression system in the International
Standards  Organization as the MPEG-2 HDTV profile.

Over the next few weeks, Advisory Committee participants  will review the
technical merits of the Grand Alliance  proposal, which includes procedures for
deciding on a few  remaining component designs based on the results of 
specific tests.  Various subgroups of the Advisory  Committee will work with
the Grand Alliance members as  their merged system concept is finalized and,
eventually,  will oversee the testing of the completed system.  Based  on the
results of those tests, the Committee may recommend  the system to the FCC as
the basis for a high definition television standard for our country.  The FCC,
of course,  has the ultimate authority to adopt transmission  standards.

ENDS

Footnote 1: MIT believes that a digital video broadcast  standard that
exclusively utilizes progressive scan  transmission, from the beginning, is in
the best interests  of the United States.

  




From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Fri May 28 11:57:26 1993
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 28 May 1993 16:57:28 EDT
Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 16:57:26 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Move front image to end of newest compatible stack
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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You might find these macros useful (not exhaustively tested, but I don't
think they contain any bugs :-).

macro 'Make stack same size as front image';
var
 width, height: integer;
 name: string;
begin
 SaveState;
 GetPicSize(width, height);
 SetNewSize(width, height);
 name := GetString('New Stack Name', 'stack');
 MakeNewStack(name);
 RestoreState;
end;

macro 'Move front image to end of newest compatible stack';
var
 stkn, picn, width, height, w2, h2: integer;
 compat: Boolean;
begin
 picn := PicNumber;
 if nSlices <> 0 then begin
   beep;
   exit;
  end;
 GetPicSize(width, height);
 stkn := nPics + 1
 compat := false;
 while not compat do begin
   stkn := stkn - 1;
   if stkn = 0 then begin
     beep;
     exit;
    end;
   ChoosePic(stkn);
   GetPicSize(w2, h2);
   if width = w2 then
    if height = h2 then
     if nSlices <> 0 then
      if stkn <> picn then
       compat := true;
  end;
 ChoosePic(picn);
 SelectAll;
 Copy;
 ChoosePic(stkn);
 ChooseSlice(nSlices);
 AddSlice;
 Paste;
 ChoosePic(picn);
 Dispose;
 if picn < stkn then
  stkn := stkn - 1;
 SelectPic(stkn);
 SelectSlice(sliceNumber);
end;
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From phskcc@emrycc.cc.emory.edu  Fri May 31 08:33:00 1993
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Date: 31 May 93 13:33:00 EST
From: "K. C. CHAN" <phskcc@emrycc.cc.emory.edu>
Subject: RE: Plug-ins
To: "nih-image" <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

From:	EMRYCC::WINS%"<nih-image@soils.umn.edu>" 26-MAY-1993 12:49:40.64
To:	PHSKCC
CC:	
Subj:	RE: Plug-ins


>Is there a Plug-In for the HP Scanners?

>A recent issue of MacWorld(or perhaps MacUser) had a review of scanners and
>the HP Scanjet was the only scanner tested that did not come with a
>Photoshop plug-in.

>--wayne

I just got a HP scanner HP SCAN IIc that comes with a Photoshop LE (limited 
edition) and a plug-in module called TWAIN. With TWAIN, users can use the 
Acquire command to acess the HP Scanner. The TWAIN plug-in  module requires 
both the Photoshop LE and the device software--SOURCE MANAGER & DESCAN  II--
provided by HP to work. Just like using Chooser from Apple menu, a 
TWAIN-supported device must be chosen first when the Acquire command is 
invoked from the File menu the first time. This can be done by choosing
TWAINM Select Source from the Acquire submenu. 

I really feet sorry for the TWAIN Plug-in. It has many bugs and crashed numerous
time on me. I don't know who should I point my finger to: HP, Adobe, or both?
I wish the software can match up to the hardware. 

Wayne, can IMAGE supported a TWAIN-like plug-in? 
  

K.C. Chan

Physics Dept.
Emory University
Atlanta GA 30322   

(404)727-7863
PHSKCC@EMRYCC 	



From jonker@amc.uva.nl  Sat Jun  1 12:47:30 1993
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From: jonker@amc.uva.nl (Ard Jonker)
Subject: Re: calcium ratioing and Image-VDM
To: nih-image <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
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>We have just bought a Perceptics Pipeline board and are trying to start up
>ratiometric Ca measurments using Image-VDM.  This means acquiring two images,
>subtracting the correpsonding background from each and then dividing one by the
>other. The problem is that the program as it stands does not do division of
>two images.  Has anyone out there already adapted Image-VDM for such
>operations or
>had any experience with such applications?
>
>Any help would be much appreciated!

Yes it does. If you first correct both images for dark current, then you
copy one image and paste it into the other, with the 'paste control' window
active, having 'divide' pressed once the images are aligned.
We did feulgen/naphta yellow S stainging for nuclei and protein this way.
Interactively, it is slow but it works fine with me.

If you want to do this in another way, you might have a look at 'Imagine',
another package for the mac. (don't  use it without an FPU, or with
softFPU, as it is __TERRIBLY_ slow; you'll think the machine crashed). you
might also want to try MAIA (former MIRA, Macintosh Astronomical Image
A(pplication?))



From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com  Tue Jun  1 04:24:03 1993
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 08:24:03 EDT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Color Image

I am intrigued about the use of 8 bit video 
in Image and why has color discrimination 
capabilities have all but ignored in the 
newest versions of Image. I would have 
thought that most people out there would be 
interested in such capability, even though 
discrimination by gray levels using the RGB 
channels is very effective...

A couple of months back, I a discussion on 
Color-Image 1.32, a spin-off of image was 
talked about, however, it would not work on 
a Quadra 950. The author of that variant 
said he would post a new version of it. Did 
that ever happened? What about hardware 
support? apparently Scion-LG-3 can capture 
color but this spin-off does not support 
that board, Am I correct? Is it perhaps 
better to get IP-LAB for color analysis?

Juan I. Sarmiento
Department of Toxicology and Pathology
Hoffmann-La Roche, INC.
340 Kingsland street
Nutley, NJ 07110
(201) 235 43 42
Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.COM


From aljo@eel.sunet.se  Tue Jun  1 17:36:45 1993
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From: aljo@eel.sunet.se
To: "nih-image@soils.umn.edu"@kth.sunet.se
Subject: Highlighting Saturated pixels

Is there a way for a user to select the colors which will be used to high-
light pixels that are out of the exposure window?  In the older versions,
red was used to designate excessively dark regions and green identified the
bright areas.  With Image v1.49, the dark areas are now highlighted in blue
which is extremely difficult to spot over a black region.  It might be easier
to use a light color.  However, not all may agree so the best solution might
be to make it possible for the user to select the colors.  
If anyone knows how to do this, would you please let me know.  Thanks.
Al Johnson
aljo@eel.sunet.se
Uppsala University
Uppsala, Sweden

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jun  1 09:26:10 1993
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 09:26:10 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: RE: Twain Plug-ins

>I really feet sorry for the TWAIN Plug-in. It has many bugs and crashed numerous
>time on me. I don't know who should I point my finger to: HP, Adobe, or both?
>I wish the software can match up to the hardware. 
>
>Wayne, can IMAGE supported a TWAIN-like plug-in? 

The Twain plug-in that comes with Photoshop 2.5 does not work with Image
because Adobe refuses to allow their plug-ins to work with any program
except Photoshop. Third party Twain plug-ins should work however, but right
off hand, I don't know of any.

--wayne 


From set@eru.mt.luth.se  Tue Jun  1 18:01:08 1993
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 17:01:08 +0100
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg)
Subject: Re: UserCode interface extension
X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable

>The timer support I posted to zippy.nimh.nih.gov in /pub/image/contrib
>also had a change to the UserCode interface.  I have thought about this,
>
>The proposal is:
>(1)  UserCode takes a variable number of arguments.  I implemented this
>without need to call putback token.  
>
>(2)  The maximum number is of arguments is five:  
>
>UserCode(selector:integer;p1,p2,p3:real;str:string);
>
>(3)  Selector value zero is defined to give the correct selector code
>to use to call a named routine, i.e.
>
>Conv16To8 := UserCode(0,0,0,0,'Conv16To8');
>
>Then later write UserCode(Conv16To8,p1,p2,p3);
>
>This also has the advantage that if a different version of Image is used,
>probably the routine names will be different...  Users would be prudent to
>put a version check in so their macros check to see that the proper user.p
>is included before trying to use usercode.
>
>(4)  UserFunc(selector:integer,p1,p2,p3:real;str:string):real is also defined.
>The same selector codes are used, in fact, the same code is executed.
>
>(5)  UserStr(selector:integer,p1,p2,p3:real;str:string):string is also defined,
>to permit user code to return a string.
>
>Send me any comments, or suggestions for further refinements in design. 
>This version has less runtime overhead than the previous design, and is
>upward compatible with existing calls to UserCode.
>
>Also, from User.p, now you can pass strings back to MacroError.  (Since
>User.p comes before Macros in the build order, MacroError cannot be called
>from within user.p.  I fixed this by putting a var string argument to the
>usermacrocode
>procedure in user.p, which is set non-null to cause a macro error.)
>
>BTW I have a user.p which now supports 16 bit images and 32 bit real images,
>with a few simple manipulations on them.  Unfortunately many of the things
>you want to do you can't, but it is possible to write macros that do some
>simple processing using real arithmetic...  And this is a framework for
>easily incorporating other IP manipulations, although they can't be done
>except via macros.
>--
>Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
>Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
>NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003

Dear Sir!

We are generating 16-bits images from an AFM microscope. This images need
to be matched with x- and y-offset, and thereafter subtracted. 
As i dont know the offset, I have to manually match them or do some form of
2DXcorr. I hope that this will give you some idea of our problem, and to
help you with your spec. and code work.

We are now waiting for a LC3-card with 32Mb memory, and will find some
sollution fully use all the capacity of the framegrabber. We are planning
to connect a ccd-camera to the card and grab 25 images/second for about 4
seconds. We will need some WORM-opto-disc's to.

I do agree that we need some wayne-clones. It would also be helpfull to
have a public rev. report on whats altered at new beta versions, or which
modules are altered.

---- Best greetings from the arctic circuit -----
        
Sven-Erik Tiberg 
Div. of energy / mashineenginnering 
Lulea University of Technology
Lulea Sweden
email set@eru.mt.luth.se
Fax. S-(0)920-91047
Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638



From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jun  1 10:26:45 1993
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 10:26:45 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: RE: macro recording.

>Macro recording is not terribly difficult, given that there is a
>macro command for every menu item.  To do it, we need a global variable
>"MacroRecorder: Boolean" and a menu item "Start Recorder" which changes
>to "Stop Recorder" when MacroRecorder is true.  Then, for every menu
>item chosen, in Image.p, add "if MacroRecorder then emitMacro('propercommand');"
>or emitMacro('{<menu item name not automated yet>}');

A macro recorder would probably not be very hard to implement once the text
editor is done. All the macro recorder would have to do is a open a new
text window when the user selects Start Recording and then to have each
command in Image append the appropriate maco command to the text window.

>Also, we need online help for writing macros.  The online help package from
>Disinfectant (available by FTP from John Nostrand) would be great.  At the
>moment, I usually keep microsoft word open to the macro appendix or copy
>that into another text editor...  Some user out there ought to put together
>the text that would go into online help, basically a macro reference:  list
>of all functions in alphabetical order, and in the logical order...

You will be able to  use the new built-in text editor to open such lists
since the it is is a multi-window editor.

--wayne


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jun  1 10:32:13 1993
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	id AA06505; Tue, 1 Jun 93 11:44:21 -0400
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 10:32:13 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: name of window in macro?

>Now that the macro language has some string capabilities, would it be
>possible to add a GetPicName() function? Several times I have thought
>this would be useful: you could then name windows with processed images
>after the parent image. For instance, a smoothing macro could take a
>window called "Face", smooth it, and put the results in "Face Smoothed".

I will look into adding such a function, but I will probably call it
GetWindowName so it will also work with the text windows created by the new
built-in text editor.

--wayne


From atm@finsandfur.fw.umn.edu  Tue Jun  1 06:09:06 1993
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 11:09:06 CDT
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From: "Alan McClure"  <atm@finsandfur.fw.umn.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Frame Grabbers



A colleague is considering the purchase of some image analysis equipment.  I 
have been using Image for a while and I think he is sold on it.  My question 
concerns what grabber board he should get.  He needs to be able to capture 
images from video tape.  I have been using a Perceptics board for capturing 
images from a camera and it seems to work but I gather from comments here that 
the Scion LG-3 board may be the preferred board.  Does anyone have any comments 
or recommendations?  Does anyone have a price, address, phone number, etc.  
Thanks for the help.  

Alan McClure
Dept Fisheries and Wildlife
University of Minnesota
200 Hodson Hall
St. Paul MN  55108
e-mail atm@finsandfur.fw.umn.edu


From csk@lm.dth.dk  Tue Jun  1 20:37:34 1993
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 18:37:34 +0200
From: csk@lm.dth.dk (Claus S. Kristensen)
Message-Id: <9306011637.AA01586@maaloe.lm.dth.dk>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Digested mailing list

Hi there,

I get the Image mailing list, and as you know there is A LOT almost every day.
This is good, of course, since that's what it is there for. However, I would like
to suggest that subscribers optionally could subscribe to a digested list,
with one daily posting, which then could include all the e-mails from the last
24 hours. 
(I guess the person to answer this should be the image-list administrators...)

Please don't comment on this to the list, until an official reply has been 
posted (I  wouldn't like to see my mailbox filled up with even more mail, just 
stating "I agree" or "Not for me, thanks!" (if I wasn't the one to put forward 
this proposal, that is).

- Claus

------------------------------------------------------------------
*  Claus Sternberg Kristensen                                    *
*  Department of Microbiology   Technical University of Denmark  *
*  Building 221                 DK 2800 Lyngby Denmark           *
*  Phone (Den:) 45 93 12 22     ext. 2522 or 2515                *
*  Phone (Int:) +45 45 93 34 22 FAX +45 45 93 28 09              *
------------------------------------------------------------------




From ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu  Tue Jun  1 03:12:15 1993
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 10:12:15 PDT
Message-Id: <9306011712.AA10779@nature.berkeley.edu.cnr-net>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu (Steven Ruzin)
Subject: Re: Frame Grabbers

>A colleague is considering the purchase of some image analysis equipment.  I 
>have been using Image for a while and I think he is sold on it.  My question 
>concerns what grabber board he should get.  He needs to be able to capture 
>images from video tape.  I have been using a Perceptics board for capturing 
>images from a camera and it seems to work but I gather from comments here that 
>the Scion LG-3 board may be the preferred board.  Does anyone have any
>comments 
>or recommendations?  Does anyone have a price, address, phone number, etc.  
>Thanks for the help.  
>
>Alan McClure
>Dept Fisheries and Wildlife
>University of Minnesota
>200 Hodson Hall
>St. Paul MN  55108
>e-mail atm@finsandfur.fw.umn.edu


Alan:

The Scion board IS the best one. I also own the Data Translation board and
don't use it. I much prefer the Scion. It's cheaper, comes with the cable,
and Image supports it quite nicely.

Scion LG-3 (Frederick MD) Frame grabber board $900
Scion Corporation
        152 West Patrick Street
        Frederick, Maryland 21701
        Phone: 301-695-7870
        Fax: 301-695-0035
Dage-MTI CCD-72 B/W video camera $4000 

Steve...
Steven Ruzin
NSF Center
Dept Plant Biology
Univ California Berkeley


From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Tue Jun  1 12:33:14 1993
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Date: 1 Jun 1993 13:33:28 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Frame Grabbers
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ RE>>Frame Grabbers
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
We have just purchased a RasterOps S24TV board to do colored capture from an
optical microscope.  Yes, I know the Scion will do color capture from an RGB
camera (which is what we have), but We also want to record the images on to
video tape and then grab some of the frames at a later date.  This truns out to
be tricky unless you invest in an RGB VCR and I dont know of such a beast.  So,
the camera has a composite (and SVHS) color output which we can record easily
and the RasterOps board has the capability of capturing composite and SVHS
video.  Works nicely.
One proble is that you cant use the Photoshop plug-in to record the image from
the RaterOps board.  The plug-in doesnt work unless you are in 24bit mode and
Image only likes to run in 8 bit mode.  If you try and switch color levels. in
mid acquisition then you get crashes and unpredicatable results. Anyone else
tried to use the RasterOps products with Image?

BTW I too agree that the effort to clone Wayne should proceed as quickly as
possible, I mean what if he should ever get sick?!! :-)
Seriously Wayne, great job!
Cheers Jfm.



From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jun  1 13:20:10 1993
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Message-Id: <9306011832.AA07154@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 13:20:10 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: RasterOps Frame Grabbers

>One proble is that you cant use the Photoshop plug-in to record the image from
>the RaterOps board.  The plug-in doesnt work unless you are in 24bit mode and
>Image only likes to run in 8 bit mode.  If you try and switch color levels. in
>mid acquisition then you get crashes and unpredicatable results. Anyone else
>tried to use the RasterOps products with Image?

Are you sure your using the latest beta? I successfully tested the
RasterOps 24XLTV frame grabber using the latest 1.50b52 beta. It fixes the
problem that caused Image to crash if you switched to 24-bit and it also
automatically switches back to 8-bit mode after the image has been
acquired.

--wayne



From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Tue Jun  1 13:39:46 1993
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Date: 1 Jun 1993 14:41:32 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: RasterOps Frame Grabber
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ RE>>RasterOps Frame Grabbers
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
Maybe I want using the latest beta.  Sorry for spreading gloomy news without
foundation!  I'll try the beta52 and see if it works.

--------------------------------------
Date: 6/1/93 14:39
To: John Mansfield
From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
>One proble is that you cant use the Photoshop plug-in to record the image from
>the RaterOps board.  The plug-in doesnt work unless you are in 24bit mode and
>Image only likes to run in 8 bit mode.  If you try and switch color levels. in
>mid acquisition then you get crashes and unpredicatable results. Anyone else
>tried to use the RasterOps products with Image?

Are you sure your using the latest beta? I successfully tested the
RasterOps 24XLTV frame grabber using the latest 1.50b52 beta. It fixes the
problem that caused Image to crash if you switched to 24-bit and it also
automatically switches back to 8-bit mode after the image has been
acquired.

--wayne




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From: wayne%zippy.nimh.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu (Wayne Rasband)
To: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: RasterOps Frame Grabbers





From jamiel@sybase.com  Tue Jun  1 14:47:22 1993
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Date: Tue, 01 Jun 93 10:58:41 
From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence)
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: artuses for image
Content-Length: 505

Hi-
I recieved several replys stating that  indeed I am not the only one 
'out there' not using image for research.  Such being the case, I wanted 
to ask the other, much more substantial portion of this list if they 
would consider it a waste of thier bandwidth if the minority (artsie 
users, that is) talked other uses for image.  If so, that is no problem 
for me- just wanted to check before I started throwing questions out and 
the like that others would get sick of seeing in thier inbox...
jamie

From SMASESM@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU  Tue Jun  1 10:07:39 1993
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Date:         Tue, 01 Jun 93 15:07:39 CDT
From: "Mike Sesma, U.M.-St. Loui, School of Optometry" <SMASESM@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>
Subject:      X-Y Stage encoders
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Does anyone know of an X-Y stage encoder similar to the Minnesota Datametrics
stage encoder and plotter/mapping software which can be interfaced with Image
software.  Minnesota datametrics has decided not to port the software to the
Mac but will upgrade so that the encoder output can be fed through a serial
channel.  How would I go about interfacing such a unit.  I am interested in
cell mapping onto low mag sections from high mag viewing required for immuno-
fluorescence.  Thanks

From pwf@unet.umn.edu  Tue Jun  1 10:37:16 1993
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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Just an email test to list nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu.  Please ignore.  
I'm checking out a mail delivery problem.


Paul.

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Paul W. Fakler                                                        | 
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From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Tue Jun  1 11:08:05 1993
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From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9306012108.AA12540@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: artuses for image
In-Reply-To: Jamie Lawrence's message <9306011757.AA07463@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com> of 1 June 1993
References: <9306011757.AA07463@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com>

Jamie Lawrence <jamiel@sybase.com > writes on 1 June 1993 at 14:47:37 -0500

 > [ ... ] I wanted to ask the other, much more substantial portion of
 > this list if they would consider it a waste of thier bandwidth if
 > the minority (artsie users, that is) talked other uses for image.

If you're doing something with Image, I think it's right on topic
here.  This mailing list is not so busy that it needs a split, IMHO.


    -jml

From mt1ntg@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au  Wed Jun  2 04:15:30 1993
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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 09:15:30 EST
From: Noel Goldsmith <mt1ntg@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au>
Subject: Re: X-Y Stage encoders
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-Mailer: LeeMail 1.2.4

To
Mike Sesma

>Does anyone know of an X-Y stage encoder similar to the Minnesota Datametrics
>stage encoder and plotter/mapping software which can be interfaced with Image
>software.  Minnesota datametrics has decided not to port the software to the
>Mac but will upgrade so that the encoder output can be fed through a serial
>channel. 
 How would I go about interfacing such a unit. 
If you look at the directory user macros on zippy.nimh.nih.gov you will find a 
Macro which talks (successfully) to a Marzhauser Stage. This is a macro which 
sets up the necessary bytes or ascii characters as understandable words and 
then uses them via procedures in the macro language. Look at this.
Serial devices can be a pain in the neck, but they usually work. If you want 
more help drop me a line.
Regards Noel.
 I am interested in
>cell mapping onto low mag sections from high mag viewing required for immuno-
>fluorescence.  Thanks
>
Aeronautical Research Laboratory
506 Lorimer St
Port Melbourne
Vic  3207
Australia
Department of Defence
Phone(03) 6477527 Fax (03) 6466771
Noel Goldsmith MT1NTG@Fencer.CIS.DSTO.GOV.AU


From 00A0919@MSGATE.EMIS.hac.com  Sat Jun  1 18:09:18 1993
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Date: 01 Jun 1993 18:09:18 GMT
From: "Sumida, David S" <00A0919@MSGATE.EMIS.hac.com>
Subject: RE: Frame Grabbers
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Comment: MEMO 06.01.93 18.09

-----  ITEM 1  -----


       From: 00A0919@MRAM_EDEN@EDEN
     Author: Sumida, David S
         To: NIHIMAGE@SMTPGATE@SSW@EDEN
    Created: //
       Time: ::
    Subject: RE: Frame Grabbers




To  : eden::SSW::SMTPGATE::NIHIMAGE
Date:  1-JUN-1993 16:31:38.00

>A colleague is considering the purchase of some image analysis equipment.  I 
>have been using Image for a while and I think he is sold on it.  My question 
>concerns what grabber board he should get.  He needs to be able to capture 
>images from video tape.  I have been using a Perceptics board for capturing 
>images from a camera and it seems to work but I gather from comments here 
that 
>the Scion LG-3 board may be the preferred board.  Does anyone have any 
comments 
>or recommendations?  Does anyone have a price, address, phone number, etc.  
>Thanks for the help.  

I see that someone has already passed on the Scion info for you.  I just 
wanted to add that the nice feature about the Scion board is its expandable 
frame buffer which uses standard Mac SIMMS.  Also, for your information and 
other's on the mailing list, I am running a resurrected Mac II using a Daystar 
Digital PowerCache Accelerator ('030 at 50 MHz) and IMAGE seems to be fully 
compatiable so far!!

Blazing away, 
David Sumida, PhD
Hughes Research Laboratories
Malibu, CA 90265
00A0919@msgate.emis.hac.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: NIHIMAGE on Tue, Jun 1, 1993 10:11 AM
Subject: Frame Grabbers
To: Sumida, David S


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Date: 01 Jun 1993 11:09:41 -0500
From: Alan McClure <atm%finsandfur.fw.umn.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Frame Grabbers
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A colleague is considering the purchase of some image analysis equipment.  I 
have been using Image for a while and I think he is sold on it.  My question 
concerns what grabber board he should get.  He needs to be able to capture 
images from video tape.  I have been using a Perceptics board for capturing 
images from a camera and it seems to work but I gather from comments here that 
the Scion LG-3 board may be the preferred board.  Does anyone have any 
comments 
or recommendations?  Does anyone have a price, address, phone number, etc.  
Thanks for the help.  

Alan McClure
Dept Fisheries and Wildlife
University of Minnesota
200 Hodson Hall
St. Paul MN  55108
e-mail atm@finsandfur.fw.umn.edu




From SBK111@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU  Tue Jun  1 17:20:00 1993
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 21:20 EDT
From: Barr Kum <SBK111@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject: Re: Color and temperature
To: nih-image@soils.umn.Edu
Message-Id: <29B4E714247F806335@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU>
X-Organization: Marine Sciences Research Center
X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.Edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.Edu"
X-Vms-Cc: SBK111

Here are a few references relationg Temperature and radiation

Badenas, C and V. Caselles 1992. A simple technique for estimating surface
temperature by means of a thermal infrared radiometer. Int. J. of Remote
Sensing vol 13 no. 15 2951-2956.

Cracknell, A. P. 1992 A method for the correction of sea surface temperatures
derived from satellite thermal infrared data in an area of sunglint. Int. J.
of Remote Sensing, 1993 vol 14 no. 1 3-8

McClain, E. P.., Pichel, G. W. and Walton C. C. 1985. Comparative performance
of AVHRR-based, multichannel Sea Surface temperature. Journal of Geophysical
Research, 90C, 11, 587-11, 601.
 
Hope this helps

Barr-Kum
sbarrkum@csserv1.ic.sunysb.edu
sbk111@msrc.sunysb.edu



From contper1@NKI.NL  Sun Jun  2 10:04:00 1993
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From: contper1@NKI.NL
Subject: problem with grabbing
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ilja van de pavert
antoni van leeuwenhoekhuis/the netherlands cancer institute
dept. of biophysics
plesmanlaan 121                                     phone: +31 20 5121894
1066 cx  amsterdam                                  fax:   +31 20 5121944
the netherlands                                     email: contper1@nki.nl
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
I'am using Image 1.49 with the DataTranslation framegrabber card DT2255 and
QckCapInit 01.04.
Grabbing can be done, but the application hangs as soon as I stop grabbing.
I got last week a Quadra800 with 24 MB RAM and checked all possibilities:
(nearly) all inits off and cache off, but the computer still hangs. Image
1.50b52 has the same behaviour. My previous machine was a MacII (68020, 8MB
RAM) with QckCapInit 01.01.
Any suggestions how to overcome this problem?



From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be  Thu Jun  3 04:01:24 1993
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From: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be (Jacques VAN HELDEN)
Message-Id: <9306031001.AA20407@dec5.ulb.ac.be>
Subject: light integration with CCD camera
To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 11:01:15 WET DST
Cc: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Some video cameras allow to integrate the light falling on the CCD
chip for several seconds to minutes (VideoScope, Cohu, ...). 

Does anyone use this functionnality with NIH image ?


*  Jacques van Helden             *
*  Universite Libre de Bruxelles  *
*  Service de Neurobiologie       *
*  67 rue des Chevaux             *
*  B-1640 Rhodes Saint Genese     *
*  Belgium                        *
*  tel: (32) 2 650 99 41          *
*  fax: (32) 2 650 97 44          *
*  e-mail: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be     * 


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Thu Jun  3 06:13:14 1993
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 3 Jun 1993 11:13:16 EDT
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1993 11:13:14 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Image 1.44 Markup source released
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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Since a few people have asked for it, I have posted the source code for the
graphic overlay "markup" window to zippy.nimh.nih.gov in
/pub/image/contrib.  I also posted a copy of the application and a large
macro file which we used with it.  The previously posted application did
not include a macro file and lacks one minor change.  The source code file
includes MPW compare output to show the changes from released 1.44,
including changes to image.rsrc.  I used Stuffit Classic to create Stuffit
1.4.1 archives, and binhexed them before transfer.
BTW this source code also includes unlimited macro source size and a fix
for the "else if" vs. "else begin if" feature of the macro interpreter.

Use this program if you are thinking of tracing things on a piece of
acetate held up to the screen and then putting the acetate on a scanner.

One of these days I hope to get a manual of sorts together.  Also, maybe
parts of this will make it into mainline image.  Some things we just don't
have software to recognize, and the human eye is required in the image
processing loop.  This program is intended for such situations.

To use in simple mode, just open an image and choose "show markup"

From the analyze menu.  When the markup window is front, the pencil tool
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Subject: Re: Color and temperature
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 20:08:21 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <29B4E714247F806335@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU> from "Barr Kum" at Jun 3, 93 04:58:03 pm
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Thanks a lot

From Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu  Thu Jun  3 19:36:36 1993
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Date: 3 Jun 1993 20:39:50 U
From: "Carl Gustafson" <Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
Subject: Re: problem with grabbing
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

        Reply to:   RE>problem with grabbing
>I'am using Image 1.49 with the DataTranslation framegrabber card DT2255 and
>QckCapInit 01.04.
>Grabbing can be done, but the application hangs as soon as I stop grabbing.
>I got last week a Quadra800 with 24 MB RAM and checked all possibilities:
>(nearly) all inits off and cache off, but the computer still hangs. Image
>1.50b52 has the same behaviour. My previous machine was a MacII (68020, 8MB
>RAM) with QckCapInit 01.01.
>Any suggestions how to overcome this problem?

Try turning the cache off, using the cache control control panel (I forget the
exact name, but it comes with the system software.)

Carl Gustafson



From rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu  Thu Jun  3 17:14:24 1993
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From: rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu (Randall John Bateman)
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: unsubscribe Randall Bateman

unsubscribe Randall Bateman
unsubscribe rjb1@cec2.wustl.edu

From aljo@eel.sunet.se  Fri Jun  4 10:14:27 1993
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From: aljo@eel.sunet.se
To: "nih-image@soils.umn.edu"@kth.sunet.se
Subject: Re: problem with grabbing

DO YOU REALLY NED TO USE THE QUICK CAPTURE INIT?

From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Fri Jun  4 04:18:59 1993
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Re: light integration with CCD camera

>Some video cameras allow to integrate the light falling on the CCD
>chip for several seconds to minutes (VideoScope, Cohu, ...). 
>
>Does anyone use this functionnality with NIH image ?

I have tried using the cohu integrating camera and Image and a data
translation card. The camera can act in normal 30 fps mode or in
integrating mode. For integrating you hold a line down till you are done
the desired integration, then a pulse returns on another line to tell your
frame grabber that the integrated field is on the way. The return is only a
field and not a whole frame so you need to remove the odd or even lines. I
like the cohu although I don't feel that the combination consistently
captured what I wanted. I'm not sure if the triggering mechanism is
incredibly smooth.

Mark
NIH/DCRT


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Fri Jun  4 04:22:06 1993
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 08:22:06 -0400
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Re: problem with grabbing

 My previous machine was a MacII (68020, 8MB
>RAM) with QckCapInit 01.01.
>Any suggestions how to overcome this problem?

You do not need the init, take it out of your system folder. If you still
crash, then perhaps you are having other problems. MAXA software can find
bad memory addresses, Alert can help find conflicting inits, and norton or
mactools can see that your hardisk is ok. there is also rebuilding the
desktop.

Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT


From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Fri Jun  4 10:02:44 1993
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Date: 4 Jun 1993 11:04:01 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: light integration with 
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ RE>>light integration with C
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
I have a colleague who uses an integrating Fairchild camera with his software
and hardware package that is designed for the analysis of LEED and RHEED data. 
He uses a Data Translation frame grabber in a PC and controls the camera from a
serial line.  The integration occurs as follows.  You watch the frame sync
signal from the camera and when it has finished sending a video frame you set
the output inhbit control line high by setting 5 volts on the serial line
connection from the PC.  You wait for x /130ths of a  second and then set the
inhibit line low and on the next frame grab the image into the frame grabber. 
During the integrate, the camera is still generating the video signals, it just
isnt sending a picture.  This gives you only one lot of readout noise.  If you
use the Scion LG-3 with with say 16meg of memory you can digitize up to 32
consecutive video frames and average those, but in this case you get 32 times
the readout noise as compared with integrating on the CCD for 32/30ths of a
second (True, you may saturate the chip in this example, but that is what it
is, just an example).  Now, it turns out that the SCion LG-3 board is capable
of doing exactly what my colleague does with the PC system.  You can use the
control lines of the LG-3 to set the inhibit line on the CCD.  The tricky bit
is watching the video from signals and making sure that you dont try and
integrate 1/2 way through a frame.  I havent written any code to do this
integration yet, we are not sure if it will seriously improve our images.  I
think we will have to write special code for this, I dont think the macro
interpreter will suffice.
Just for info, the guy with the PC system for LEED and RHEED analysis is:
Darryl Bartlett
k-Space Associated Inc.
Ann Arbor Michigan
Phone and FAX: 313-761-9315

Just my musings!
Jfm.

--------------------------------------
Date: 6/4/93 8:38
To: John Mansfield
From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
>Some video cameras allow to integrate the light falling on the CCD
>chip for several seconds to minutes (VideoScope, Cohu, ...). 
>
>Does anyone use this functionnality with NIH image ?

I have tried using the cohu integrating camera and Image and a data
translation card. The camera can act in normal 30 fps mode or in
integrating mode. For integrating you hold a line down till you are done
the desired integration, then a pulse returns on another line to tell your
frame grabber that the integrated field is on the way. The return is only a
field and not a whole frame so you need to remove the odd or even lines. I
like the cohu although I don't feel that the combination consistently
captured what I wanted. I'm not sure if the triggering mechanism is
incredibly smooth.

Mark
NIH/DCRT



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Subject: Re: light integration with CCD camera





From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jun  4 10:57:39 1993
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 10:57:39 +0000
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From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: light integration with CCD camera

>Some video cameras allow to integrate the light falling on the CCD
>chip for several seconds to minutes (VideoScope, Cohu, ...). 
>
>Does anyone use this functionnality with NIH image ?

Paultek Imaging(916-265-9293, fax: 916-265-0587) has a full frame
integrating CCD camera with RS-232 control that looks like it would work
well with NIH Image.

--wayne


From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu  Fri Jun  4 05:39:15 1993
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From: "Herbert M. Geller" <geller@synapse.umdnj.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject:  Re:  light integration with CCD camera
Message-Id:  <9306040939.aa05983@synapse.umdnj.edu>

I just bought a Dage C72 CCD camera that can
integrate, and I intend to use it with NIH Image.
However, the equipment is not here yet, so I 
haven't had any experience.

Herb Geller


From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU  Fri Jun  4 04:36:43 1993
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From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien)
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: noise during integration

John Mansfield mentions:

> ...If you
> use the Scion LG-3 with with say 16meg of memory you can digitize up to 32
> consecutive video frames and average those, but in this case you get 32 times
> the readout noise as compared with integrating on the CCD for 32/30ths of a
> second.

This is not quite right. Assuming that the readout noise is random and there-
fore incoherent (as opposed to a fixed pattern noise that repeats from frame
to frame), the noise in an average of 32 frames would only be sqrt(32)=5.7
times the noise in a single frame. That's why averaging helps: your signal-
to-noise ratio goes up as sqrt(N).

Pedantically,
Chi-Bin Chien

From scudder@cpac.washington.edu  Fri Jun  4 04:44:29 1993
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From: Kurt Scudder <scudder@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>
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Subject: Re: light integration with CCD camera
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	We are using just such an arrangement in our lab. The COHU 4900
series cameras will integrate on-chip. There is an auxiliary connector on
the camera control box (it's a remote head camera). To integrate, you
simply apply a logic low to one of the control lines. The readout of the
CCD is prevented while the control line is held low. When the control line
is pulled back high, the frame of video is read out on the next sync
pulse. The camera controller generates a "grab pulse" at the instant the
integrate line goes high. We feed this into the external trigger on the
Data Translation QuickCapture board, and just enable the "Wait for
Trigger" mode in Image. It is slick and simple - the hardest part about it
was hand-building the cable to connect it all together.
	The integration signal comes from our UniBlitz shutter controller.
As soon as the shutter opens, the camera starts to integrate. When the
shutter closes, the camera stops integrating and the integrated frame is
captured by Image. The Uniblitz shutter controller is an exceptionally
nice piece of equipment. It has built-in timers (4-digit), or it can be
computer-controlled. You can fire the internal timers by computer, or you
can override them such that the computer controls the duration of the
shutter/integration. It can be manually opened or closed, set to oscillate
with defined open/closed periods, or used as a one-shot mode either
normally open or normally closed. It is far more versatile than we will
ever need, and was only about US$350
	We are currently using another computer to fire the shutter
controller, or are triggering the shutter manually. With a little
ingenuity, I think the serial port could be used from within Image to do
the triggering. The beauty of using the Uniblitz shutter controller is
that it essentially becomes the data acquisition timer if you are
capturing a series of images. The computer doesn't have to do any timing.
	There are two drawbacks. First, it is next to impossible to follow
the video on an external monitor, because the integrated video frame only
comes out once at the end of the integration period. What you see is a
blank screen, then a brief (1/30 sec, of course, in the USA) image, then a
blank screen again until the next frame. Of course the captured image is
displayed continuously on the mac screen. Second, although COHU says you
can integrate for several seconds before the noise kills you, we have
found that after one second, there are tens to hundreds of saturated
pixels scattered randomly in the image even with no light falling on the
camera. It is hard to correct for this, but one could write a macro to
ignore those pixels. They're the same every time.

Kurt Scudder
Dept. of Chemistry
University of Washington
Seattle, WA USA
scudder@u.washington.edu


On Thu, 3 Jun 1993, Jacques VAN HELDEN wrote:

> Some video cameras allow to integrate the light falling on the CCD
> chip for several seconds to minutes (VideoScope, Cohu, ...). 
> 
> Does anyone use this functionnality with NIH image ?
> 
> 
> *  Jacques van Helden             *
> *  Universite Libre de Bruxelles  *
> *  Service de Neurobiologie       *
> *  67 rue des Chevaux             *
> *  B-1640 Rhodes Saint Genese     *
> *  Belgium                        *
> *  tel: (32) 2 650 99 41          *
> *  fax: (32) 2 650 97 44          *
> *  e-mail: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be     * 
> 
> 




From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Fri Jun  4 14:11:51 1993
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Date: 4 Jun 1993 14:51:49 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: noise during integration
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ RE>noise during integration
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
Yeah you are right, but it's still much worse right?
That's why you would like to do the on  chip integration!
:-)
Cheers!
Jfm.

--------------------------------------
Date: 6/4/93 14:38
To: John Mansfield
From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
John Mansfield mentions:

> ...If you
> use the Scion LG-3 with with say 16meg of memory you can digitize up to 32
> consecutive video frames and average those, but in this case you get 32 times
> the readout noise as compared with integrating on the CCD for 32/30ths of a
> second.

This is not quite right. Assuming that the readout noise is random and there-
fore incoherent (as opposed to a fixed pattern noise that repeats from frame
to frame), the noise in an average of 32 frames would only be sqrt(32)=5.7
times the noise in a single frame. That's why averaging helps: your signal-
to-noise ratio goes up as sqrt(N).

Pedantically,
Chi-Bin Chien


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Comment:  NIH Image Distribution List
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From: chien%jeeves.UCSD.EDU@relay.tc.umn.edu (Chi-Bin Chien)
To: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Subject: noise during integration





From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be  Mon Jun  7 06:18:49 1993
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From: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be (Jacques VAN HELDEN)
Message-Id: <9306071218.AA20160@dec5.ulb.ac.be>
Subject: Re: noise during integration
To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 13:18:47 WET DST
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> Second, although COHU says you can integrate for several seconds 
> before the noise kills you, we have found that after one second, there
> are tens to hundreds of saturated pixels scattered randomly in the
> image even with no light falling on the camera. It is hard to correct
> for this, but one could write a macro to ignore those pixels. They're
> the same every time. 

Using the VideoScope CCD200E camera, I have the same effect with long
integration. This noise (which is not really random since always on the
same positions) can be removed with the Reduce Noise function of
NIH-Image, which makes a median filtering (each point is replaced by the
median value of the pixels in a 3x3 square around itself). You loose a
bit resolution, but it is an edge preserving filtering.

Jacques van Helden
jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be


From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU  Mon Jun  7 06:39:59 1993
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From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien)
Message-Id: <9306072039.AA06270@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: bad pixels, long integration

> Second, although COHU says you can integrate for several seconds
> before the noise kills you, we have found that after one second, there
> are tens to hundreds of saturated pixels scattered randomly in the
> image even with no light falling on the camera. It is hard to correct
> for this, but one could write a macro to ignore those pixels. They're
> the same every time.

> Using the VideoScope CCD200E camera, I have the same effect with long
> integration. This noise (which is not really random since always on the
> same positions) can be removed with the Reduce Noise function of
> NIH-Image, which makes a median filtering.

I believe that this effect is common among cameras using consumer-grade
CCD chips: some of the CCD's pixels are bad (probably high dark current).
Using Reduce Noise seems like a good way to get rid of them if you don't
mind blurring your picture a little bit...

For those whose cameras do not integrate, one could use a digital video
integrator such as the ones from Dage. Their first box (about $4000) just
let you do simple integrations, and worked quite nicely when I demoed it.
I believe they have a second-generation box out (about $6000), though I
haven't seen it in action, which sounds like a really nice machine. It has
several planes of memory, so it can do background subtraction etc., has
an additional 1-bit plane which is meant for masking out bad pixels (exactly
the application mentioned above). I also seem to remember that it was
supposed to have a digital data interface (SCSI?), with Mac drivers.

Not having seen this box in the flesh, I can't swear to the details, but it
should be a worthy competitor to the Hamamatsu Argus-10. It would be useful
for Image users who need to do processing at higher speeds than their Macs
can handle, or for storing large amounts of data to videotape.

Chi-Bin Chien

From stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu  Mon Jun  7 17:54:19 1993
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From: stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu (Sam Wang)
Message-Id: <9306080154.AA08754@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Subject: JPEG available for Image?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 21:54:19 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <9306071218.AA20160@dec5.ulb.ac.be> from "Jacques VAN HELDEN" at Jun 7, 93 06:19:02 am
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Please excuse me if this has been answered before: are there ways
Image can save/read files compressed in JPEG format? I know the
PhotoShop JPEG plugin doesn't work with the 1.5beta (I tried),
but are there third party plug-ins that might?

Thanks.
Sam
-- 
Sam Wang  stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu    803/656-3924voice 656-0204fax
Art Dept., Clemson University, Clemson, SC 29634-0509

From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU  Mon Jun  7 16:15:51 1993
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From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien)
Message-Id: <9306080615.AA14259@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Trouble grabbing from VCR with Scion

I am forwarding this query from Eric Olson, a graduate student in another
lab in my department:

===============
Re:  Image importing failures into the Scion LG-3 that are dependent on VCR
tape quality.

We purchased a Scion LG-3 frame grabber (5/93) which imports images nicely

From a SIT camera but sporadically fails to import images from VCR.  This f
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Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1993 10:57:19 AST
From: John Corbit <corbit@esseX.stfx.ca>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: garbary@esseX.stfx.ca
Message-Id: <0096DB74.25DE18C0.12283@esseX.stfx.ca>
Subject: grayscale vs halftoning


MX%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"

I have a new (05/93) Scion LG-3 board (S/N  30133) installed in my Quadra 
800 and have begun to experiment with image capture using Image 1.50b52 and 
the LG-3 plug-in. I have a JVC TK-885U CCD camera on approval to try with the 
board. My question concerns whether this is the wrong camera for grayscale
photography.

I am getting images but they are halftoned, both on the screen and when
printed by inkjet or laserprinter. When printed from PhotoShop to a laser
printer the images are dithered.

My expectation was that there would be no half-toning or dithering, and
that each pixel would be one of 256 grays. This is not occurring.

Presumably the problem comes from the camera. First of all it is a 
color camera with the following items noted in the list of specs:
color video camera; single CCD complimentary color system; no. of 
effective pixels 510(H) x 492(V); scanning lines 525, 2:1 interlaced;
horizontal resolution 330 TV lines.

Is this camera no good for gray-scale photography? Is there a problem
because 510x492 **EFFECTIVE PIXELS** does not match the 640x480 pixels
of the board? What are "effective pixels"?

I will be very grateful to hear from you about whether I am doing 
something wrong or whether this camera is no good for gray-scale 
photography. 

Since this is a very naive question it might be best if people were to
reply to me directly (corbit@essex.stfx.ca) rather than to the list.

Thank you very much,  John

John D. Corbit, Ph.D.
Biology Dept.  St.F.X.U.
Antigonish, N.S.
Canada  B2G 2M5

Internet: corbit@essex.stfx.ca
Voice: 902-867-2233
Fax: 902-867-5153


From wesfreid@physique.ens.fr  Tue Jun  8 15:59:29 1993
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From: wesfreid@physique.ens.fr (WESFREID Eduardo)
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: problems with VCR

"We purchased a Scion LG-3 frame grabber (5/93) which imports images nicely

From a SIT camera but sporadically fails to import images from VCR."
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Date: 8 Jun 1993 09:04:31 U
From: "Sylwester Chyb" <Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu>
Subject: color capturing with Scion LG-3
Return-Receipt-To: "Sylwester Chyb" <Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

I would like to hear from those of you who have been using Scion LG-3 frame
grabber for capturing color.
We have just purchased Scion LG-3 frame grabber. So far everything we tested
works fine but we were unable to capture color. Within weeks we expect to
purchase Sony color video camera and high resolution color monitor which has 4
BNC outputs. However right now our video source has only one BNC video out. Is
there a way to capture color using this output ?

Sylwester Chyb
Penn State Univ.

From Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu  Tue Jun  8 09:50:04 1993
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From: "Sylwester Chyb" <Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu>
Subject: multi-system VCRs
Return-Receipt-To: "Sylwester Chyb" <Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

We are looking for a VCR capable of handling NTSC, PAL and SECAM color systems.
I would appreciate your advice on that subject (manufacturers, models, etc.)
Thanks,
Sylwester Chyb
Penn State Univ
schyb@psupen.psu.edu

From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Tue Jun  8 04:32:42 1993
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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 08:32:42 -0400
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Re: Trouble grabbing from VCR with Scion

  This f
>failure seems tape or recording dependent.  Some recordings on Sony T-120
>ES tape import some do not.  We have attempted importing from 3 different
>Sony VCRs SLV400,SLV757UC,SLV595HF with similar result.  Is this an intrinsic
>problem to the Scion LG-3 due to its lack of time based correction or is
>there a straightforward solution?

The problem is not the scion board, the problem is that vcr's are not made
for what you want to do. Even the very best vcr's do not compare to the
output of a video camera. Generally because you watch continuosly displayed
video from a vcr, the monitor and your eyes are able to compensate for the
poor sync and output from these devices to some extent. However individual
frame capture into a frame grabber is another whole matter. You could spend
big dollars and get a vcr with tbc built in, or you can buy an external
tbc. The external tbc will run the analog back to digital and then back out
to analog, but properly synced. Because of all the conversions and the
general low quality of vcr's anyway, this isn't the best in the world but
might be all you can do.

Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu  Tue Jun  8 01:05:37 1993
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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 08:05:37 PDT
Message-Id: <9306081505.AA28687@nature.berkeley.edu.cnr-net>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu (Steven Ruzin)
Subject: Re: problems with VCR

>"We purchased a Scion LG-3 frame grabber (5/93) which imports images nicely
>from a SIT camera but sporadically fails to import images from VCR."
>We have the same problems with a Data Traslation card!
>

I also have the same problem. If I try to grab frames from still VTR images
the synch is hopelessly lost but if I grab a frame "on the fly" then I can
usually get a decent capture. I've experienced this with both the DT2255
and the LG-3. Unfortunately, my Time-lapse VTR does not have a video synch
out so there's (probably) no hope of getting this right.

Steve...

Steven Ruzin
NSF Center
Dept Plant Biology
Univ California Berkeley


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jun  8 11:34:31 1993
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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 11:34:31 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Image can now open and edit text files

I have uploaded to zippy.nimh.nih.gov a new Image beta(1.50b63) that can
now open and edit text files up to 32K in size. The following command know
how to deal with text: New, Open, Close, Save, Save As, Cut, Copy, Paste,
Clear, Font, Size, Load Macros(loads the macros contained in the current
text window).

--wayne


From kyzy@rice.edu  Tue Jun  8 13:32:06 1993
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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 18:32:06 CDT
Message-Id: <9306082332.AA16971@moe.rice.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: kyzy@rice.edu
Subject: Re: Trouble grabbing from VCR with Scion


>We purchased a Scion LG-3 frame grabber (5/93) which imports images nicely
>from a SIT camera but sporadically fails to import images from VCR.  This f
>failure seems tape or recording dependent.  Some recordings on Sony T-120
>ES tape import some do not.  We have attempted importing from 3 different
>Sony VCRs SLV400,SLV757UC,SLV595HF with similar result.  Is this an 
>intrinsic problem to the Scion LG-3 due to its lack of time based
>correction or is there a straightforward solution?
>===============

The only straightforward solution is to use a Time Base Corrector unit
(TBC) between the VCR and the frame grabber. All the problems you describe
are due to the poor sync signals of the composite video output from VCRs
(especially time-lapse VCRs). The TBC strips the sync, performs an
analog-digital-analog conversion of the video signal and puts the correct
sync back in it.  Ideally, one should have a sync generator (another video
gadget) driving the camera, the TBC and the frame grabber, but this is not
really necessary. External TBC's have come down in price (about $ 2,000 for
the last I bought) or you can buy VCR's with built in TBC.

If you do not want to  buy a TBC, try (as a last resort) running the frame
grabber with external sync (I do not know if the Scion has this option).
Then take the output from the VCR, put it into a VDA (video distribution
amplifier) and connect two outputs from the VDA to the video input and the
sync input of the board. This approach works with one of our frame grabbers
we have installed in a MicroVAX (our pet dinosaur). It is definitely not
kosher, however, and there is no guarantee it will work. But if you have a
VDA around ...

 

------------------------------------

Prof. Kyriacos Zygourakis
Dept. of Chemical Engineering
Rice University
Houston, Texas 77251-1892

Phone: (713) 527-8750 Ext. 3509
FAX:   (713) 285-5478

------------------------------------




From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU  Tue Jun  8 04:26:20 1993
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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 11:26:20 PDT
From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien)
Message-Id: <9306081826.AA23043@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re: Trouble grabbing from VCR with Scion

> "We purchased a Scion LG-3 frame grabber (5/93) which imports images nicely
> from a SIT camera but sporadically fails to import images from VCR."
> We have the same problems with a Data Traslation card!
>
> J.E.Wesfreid

> The problem is not the scion board, the problem is that vcr's are not made
> for what you want to do. Even the very best vcr's do not compare to the
> output of a video camera.
>
> Mark Vivino

I should have mentioned that Eric also has a Data Translation board, which
works much more reliably than the Scion. (He's trying to set up a second
rig, which is why he bought the Scion.) The Scion LG-3 brochure says
"[This board] is designed for use with high-quality CCD imaging equipment,
and as such incorporates no time base correction," and I thought that this
might account for the difference between the boards. Does the DT board
have better time base or synching hardware?

Chi-Bin Chien

From corbit@esseX.stfx.ca  Wed Jun  9 08:27:16 1993
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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1993 10:29:26 AST
From: John Corbit <corbit@esseX.stfx.ca>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: garbary@esseX.stfx.ca, parker@esseX.stfx.ca, fnkwp@acad3.alaska.edu,
        pdbourke@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz, A_lock@bionet.bio.dfo.ca
Message-Id: <0096DC39.6AB08BC0.14000@esseX.stfx.ca>
Subject: thank you!


 MX%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"


Thanks to all who responded to my question yesterday about what I termed
"halftoning of the screen image" captured via the composite signal from
a JVC color camera sent to a Scion LG-3 board in a Quadra 800 and then 
processed via the LG-3 plug-in by either NIH Image 1.50b52 or PhotoShop 2.5.

The origin of my problem is in the camera. An especially clear statement of
the situation is given by Mike Calford in the message attached below.

Thanks again. Another triumph of telecommunication. A problem solved within
24 hours by worldwide sharing and collaboration. I am most grateful.

John

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Corbit, Ph.D.          Internet: corbit@essex.stfx.ca
Biology Dept.  St.F.X.U.       Voice: 902-867-2233
Antigonish, N.S.               Fax: 902-867-5153
Canada  B2G 1C0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: corbit@essex.stfx.ca
From: Mike Calford <m.calford@mailbox.uq.oz.au>
Subject: re camera
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 03:57:29 +0000

you are probably not getting halftones but a herring-bone type pattern
over the top of your image. This is due to your use of a colour camera and
the failure of the camera/board system due to the luminance signal getting
through. You need to get a good monochrome CCD camera - try one of the new
Panasonic models.
Also don't expect a laserprinter to reproduce 256 greys.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

m.calford@mailbox.uq.oz.au                   Dr. M.B. Calford
                                              Vision, Touch and Hearing 
                                                 Research Centre
                                              The University of Queensland
                                              Brisbane, Queensland 4072
                                              Australia

From frodes@ibg.uit.no  Thu Jun 10 03:47:29 1993
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 08:47:29 -0500
To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu
From: frodes@ibg.uit.no (Frode Skarstein)
X-Sender: frodes@darwin.ibg.uit.no

REWIEW
                                                                           
          Torfinn
                                                                           
           """""""


From frodes@ibg.uit.no  Thu Jun 10 09:49:09 1993
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From: frodes@ibg.uit.no (Frode Skarstein)
X-Sender: frodes@darwin.ibg.uit.no

REWIEW


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Thu Jun 10 04:51:26 1993
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 08:51:26 -0400
Message-Id: <9306101251.AA13037@helix.nih.gov>
To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Unique frame grabber on the market

Found out about this yesterday, so I thought others might be interested. I
had no previous knowledge of them. Wayne, you might want to include this
one in your frame grabber co list.

A company called Precision Digital Images Co called me with some technical
questions about Image. They are makers of a unique frame grabbing device.
It can sample normal video, but can also sample analog data at a rate up to
115 MHz and place the result into an image. Such things are used in nuclear
med, MRI or any other nonstandard image acqusitions. It can also acquire up
to 2K by 2K images (8 bit), or of course small images (also 8 bit). The
board is called Immaxx. They are in the process of developing a photoshop
plug-in and want it to work with Image since they have had requests for
that.

I have no connection with the company and haven't seen their product but if
anyone is interested:

Precision Digital Images Co
8711 148th Ave, NE
Redmond, WA 98052

206-867-9177

Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Thu Jun 10 17:22:42 1993
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	id AA03232; Thu, 10 Jun 1993 12:37:39 -0500
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Date:    Thu, 10 Jun 93 17:22:42 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930610172242.26246205@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: Re: problem with grabbing
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

The QckCapInit 01.01 is not needed to run Image. Remove it!. It is 
probably the cource of your problem. 
			Harvey Karten 

From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Thu Jun 10 17:46:34 1993
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	id AA03400; Thu, 10 Jun 1993 13:00:21 -0500
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Date:    Thu, 10 Jun 93 17:46:34 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930610174634.26246205@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: Re: light integration with CCD camera
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

The Dage DSP 200 allows image integration with any CCD camera. We 
use it with a Dage 72/SONY XC77 (same camera, but the Dage unit allow you to externally 
switch off  and on the AGC. ) We find that it allows us to grab images 
of relatively low light levels that otherwise could not be captured 
with an ordinary CCD. But I don't know the absolute increase in 
efficiency. The DSP 200 allows either automatic integration, or frame by frame
integration under manual control. It then saves it in a buffer and then 
can be digitized by the computer. The newer verrsion of the DAGE DSP
reportedly has better capability to allow the computer to 
control the whole process. 
			Harvey Karten 

From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Thu Jun 10 17:57:00 1993
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	id AA03729; Thu, 10 Jun 1993 13:23:55 -0500
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Date:    Thu, 10 Jun 93 17:57:00 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930610175700.26246205@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Trouble grabbing from VCR with Scion
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

The solution to the problem of TBC from a VCR to a frame grabber
may be soluble using the SONY Hi-8 Digital VCR. It costs about $1,200,
and I believe it has a built in TBC. Joe Ayers showed it to me 
in operation recently and the results were most impressive. 
I believe it is a model 3000. Write to Joe Ayers for more info.

From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Thu Jun 10 13:26:59 1993
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	id AA03797; Thu, 10 Jun 1993 13:26:59 -0500
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Message-Id: <199306101826.AA03797@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Date: 10 Jun 1993 14:30:43 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: light integration with 
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ RE>>light integration with C
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
>The Dage DSP 200 allows image integration with any CCD camera. We 
>use it with a Dage 72/SONY XC77 (same camera, but the Dage unit allow you >to 
The trouble with using the DSP box to average the images is that you now have
the chain:
analog -> digital -> analog -> digital
camera->dsp->monitor->digitizer.
Not the most efficient way og doing things.
Just my 10cents worth!
Jfm



From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Thu Jun 10 20:54:21 1993
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	id AA04721; Thu, 10 Jun 1993 15:51:54 -0500
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Date:    Thu, 10 Jun 93 20:54:21 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930610205421.26246205@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: Re: light integration with 
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

"     jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
>The Dage DSP 200 allows image integration with any CCD camera. We
>use it with a Dage 72/SONY XC77 (same camera, but the Dage unit allow you >to
The trouble with using the DSP box to average the images is that you now have
the chain:
analog -> digital -> analog -> digital
camera->dsp->monitor->digitizer.
Not the most efficient way og doing things.
Just my 10cents worth!
Jfm"

You are correct, and Dage has repeatedly reneged on the 
promise to provide a direct digital output from the 
DSP 200. But It does provide a solution. The thing that also stands out is 
the quality of the digitized image coming from the DSP is fairly crisp.
				harvey karten 

From bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu  Thu Jun 10 13:09:48 1993
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 17:09:48 -0400
Message-Id: <9306102109.AA21778@pennsy.med.jhu.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu (Brett A. Simon)
Subject: Header offset GE9800 CT

Does anyone know the offset for images from the GE 9800 CT scanner?
-Thanks- please reply  directly to bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu
_____
Brett Simon (bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu)
Dept. of Anesthesia and Critical Care Medicine
Johns Hopkins Hospital
(410) 614-1515


From wching@alice.music.yale.edu  Thu Jun 10 15:07:28 1993
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 19:07:28 -0400
From: William Ching <wching@alice.music.yale.edu>
Message-Id: <9306102307.AA06145@alice.music.yale.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Is there a macro interface to the Surface Plot fn (Analyze menu)?

Hi fellow Image users!
  I have a question regarding the macro language and the Surface Plot function
in Image 1.50b63.  I was wondering if there was a macro hook for the Surface
Plot function (I'm trying to automate the creation of a stack of surface
plots).  If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, I'd be really appreciative
for any help.  Thanks!
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Ching                       | Yale University School of Medicine
ching-william@yale.edu              | Neuroscience and Regeneration Center
"I didn't inhale..." - Billster '93 | VA Medical Center, West Haven, CT 06516

From scudder@cpac.washington.edu  Thu Jun 10 11:25:06 1993
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	id AA06338; Thu, 10 Jun 1993 20:22:20 -0500
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 18:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kurt Scudder <scudder@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>
Sender: Kurt Scudder <scudder@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Kurt Scudder <scudder@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>
Subject: NTSC video from the Mac?
To: image-mail <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9306101752.A3269-c100000@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

	I've been trying to get up to speed on what people have done with
respect to getting video output from the Mac and from NIH Image in
particular. I've read the quadra and centris video text files on zippy,
plus the discussion in the NEC PC VCR macro in the /macros directory on
zippy. Evidently there are ways to get monochrome video out, but not
color. My interest is not just in sending processed images out of NIH
Image, but also whether this could be used as a cheap way to do video
titling for archival or demo tapes.
	Mac Warehouse sells an item called a "TV Encoder" for US$299 which
supposedly will provide NTSC video with the same color depth as the Mac
video card which drives it (i.e., 256-color or 24-bit-color, but it will
not work with the built-in video on the IIci, IIsi, or LC). Is this a
possible solution? If not, why not? I understand that one must use a
separate monitor for the image windows so as not to get the title bar on
the videotape as well.
	Another possible solution: There was an article in
Radio-Electronics back in 1991 on the construction of a VGA-to-NTSC
converter ("PC to TV Converter",Radio-Electronics vol. 62, no. 10, Oct
1991, pp 33-8). This device actually converted the analog RGB coming out
of the VGA connector to NTSC through some special video-processing chips.
The kit price was about US$160, but I think you could also buy a completed
version. It went on a card in the PC, but this was only to get DC power
and to generate an interrupt for some reason which I can't recall. Kind of
funky: the VGA signal comes out of the video card and goes right back into
another card slot; another cable connects the card to the VGA monitor, and
a third cable goes to the TV or VCR..The VGA and the Mac video (at least
the Mac II/IIx/IIci) aren't all that different, are they? Could such a
circuit be modified to work with the Mac video and keep the color info?
	Provided this would work, It seems relatively straightforward to
put Mac video on tape. Now let's suppose I want to take some existing
videotape and copy it to another machine, dubbing in my titles at the
appropriate spot. The titles are just still text frames. What additional
equipment do I need to do this? Can I just use a video switch, or do I
have to get the two sources to have a common sync? How is this done
commercially? What about overlaying two video signals? If anyone can help
or has ideas, I'd like to hear them.

Kurt Scudder
Dept. of Chemistry
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195
scudder@u.washington.edu





From pdevries@macc.wisc.edu  Fri Jun 11 09:31:13 1993
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:31:13 -0500
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          Fri, 11 Jun 93 09:32 CDT
Message-Id: <23061109324145@vms2.macc.wisc.edu>
From: (Pete DeVries) <pdevries@macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: NTSC video from the Mac?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-Sender: pdevries@vms2.macc.wisc.edu

>
>        I've been trying to get up to speed on what people have done with
>respect to getting video output from the Mac and from NIH Image in
>particular.

We have been using a Radius Videovision board to output the Mac video to
video tape. It works very well. One particular advantage is the flicker removing
convolution function built into the board. The Mac video is non-interlaced,
while NTSC is interlaced. The result is that certain areas of the screen
will flicker when put to tape. The Videovision's convolution function will
eliminate the flicker. You can turn the convolution filter on or off from
the Monitors control panel.

The board supports 13" monitors at 24-bit. To change from the Mac screen to
the TV screen you simply click a button in the Monitors control panel. You
don't need to change cables each time - it is done in software. The board
will also capture stills, Quicktime movies, and audio. It costs
approximately $1600. There is a daughter board available that will allow
you to capture 640x480 Quicktime movies at 30fps. If you are going to be
doing a lot of recording of the Mac screen, and don't want to have to deal
with the annoying flicker, this is the way to go. There is nothing like it
in its price range.

-Pete
------------------------------------------------
Pete DeVries
Information Processing Consultant

University of Wisconsin - Madison
Laboratory of Molecular Biology  (608) 262-3403
Integrated Microscopy Resource   (608) 263-6288

Email: pdevries@macc.wisc.edu FAX (608) 262-4570
-------------------------------------------------


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jun 11 10:14:53 1993
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	id AA10346; Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:14:05 -0500
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	id AA07840; Fri, 11 Jun 93 11:27:17 -0400
Message-Id: <9306111527.AA07840@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:14:53 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Is there a macro interface to the Surface Plot fn (Analyze menu)?

>Hi fellow Image users!
>  I have a question regarding the macro language and the Surface Plot function
>in Image 1.50b63.  I was wondering if there was a macro hook for the Surface
>Plot function (I'm trying to automate the creation of a stack of surface
>plots).  If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, I'd be really appreciative
>for any help.  Thanks!

Here is a macro that creates a surface plot movie from a stack. It requires
V1.50b70, which is available by ftp from zippy.nimh.nih.gov.

--wayne


macro 'Make Surface Plot Movie ';
var
  i,OldStack,NewStack:integer;
  N,PlotWidth,PlotHeight:integer;
  ScaleFactor:real;
  OneToOne:boolean;
begin
  RequiresVersion(1.50); 
  CheckForStack;
  SaveState;
  OldStack:=PicNumber;
  N:=nSlices;
  PlotWidth:=GetNumber('Surface Plot Width:',300);
  PlotHeight:=GetNumber('Surface Plot Width:',300);
  SetNewSize(PlotWidth,PlotHeight);
  MakeNewStack('Stack');
  NewStack:=PicNumber;
  SelectPic(OldStack);
  for i:= 1 to N do begin
    SelectSlice(1);
    SurfacePlot;
    SelectAll;
    Copy;
    Dispose;
    SelectPic(NewStack);
    if i<>1 then AddSlice;
    Paste;
    SelectPic(OldStack);
    DeleteSlice;
  end;
  Dispose; {OldStack}
  RestoreState;
end;


From cammer@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu  Fri Jun 11 07:22:33 1993
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 11:22:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Cammer <cammer@aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Ektron-1400 plug in for Adobe Photoshop 
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: Michael Cammer <cammer@aecom.yu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9306111527.AA07840@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
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We just uploaded the most recent version of Image (1.50b...) and find that
the Adobe Photoshop plug in module for scanning from an Ektron 1400 series
camera works fine.  



From Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu  Fri Jun 11 10:29:18 1993
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Date: 11 Jun 1993 11:33:57 U
From: "Sylwester Chyb" <Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu>
Subject: loading macros at Image startup
Return-Receipt-To: "Sylwester Chyb" <Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu


Is there a way to load a macro file at Image startup ?
Thanks for help,
Sylwester Chyb  <schyb@psupen.psu.edu>
Dept. Entomology, 
Penn State University, 
University Park, PA 16802

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jun 11 10:50:10 1993
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:50:10 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: loading macros at Image startup

>Is there a way to load a macro file at Image startup ?
>Thanks for help,
>Sylwester Chyb  <schyb@psupen.psu.edu>
>Dept. Entomology, 
>Penn State University, 
>University Park, PA 16802

When launched, Image automatically loads the macros contained in the file
"Image Macros", as long as this file is in the same folder as Image, or in
the System Folder.

The current version of NIH Image(V1.49), including documentation, example
images and complete Think Pascal source code, is available by anonymous ftp

From zippy.nimh.nih.gov[128.231.98.32], in the directory /pub/image.
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 14:12:37 BST
From: DAVIESDA@ibm3090.computer-centre.birmingham.ac.uk
Subject: Image and Radius VideoVision
To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU
Message-Id: <"13_Jun_93_14:12:37_BST_#7747"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090>

Does anyone know how I can get Image to grab video directly from my VideoVision
board rather than first having to grab something using the supplied Radius
software then importing it into Image?

Thanks,

David Davies. Physiology Department, Birmingham University, UK.
d.a.davies@uk.ac.bham

From contper1@NKI.NL  Fri Jun 14 12:06:00 1993
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Date: 14 Jun 1993 11:06 +0100 (MET)
From: contper1@NKI.NL
Subject: RE:RE: problem with grabbing
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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Thanks to all who replied about the problem of grabbing images with the
Data Translation card.
None of your suggestions had any effect.
>From the representative in The Netherlands (Rood, Rijswijk) I got a new board
and everything was o.k.! The one I used was an old one (about six years old).
The QuickCapInit I need for the image processing program TCL-Image, developed
by the TNO Institute of Applied Phisics and Multihouse-TSI.

Ilja.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ilja van de pavert
antoni van leeuwenhoekhuis/the netherlands cancer institute
dept. of biophysics
plesmanlaan 121                                     phone: +31 20 5121894
1066 cx  amsterdam                                  fax:   +31 20 5121944
the netherlands                                     email: contper1@nki.nl
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--



From burk@aecom.yu.edu  Mon Jun 14 11:39:14 1993
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 10:39:14 +0100
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: burk@aecom.yu.edu
Subject: Radius Rocket 33 compatibility with image

Before I upgrade my MacII with the Rocket33 Accelerator for use with image
analysis I want to determine whether anyone has experience with this
hardware and its compatibility.

Robbie Burk
Robert D. Burk, M.D.




burk@aecom.yu.edu


From glenmac@u.washington.edu  Mon Jun 14 06:51:02 1993
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 13:51:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glen Macdonald <glenmac@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Cavalieri macro
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05z.9306141302.A18508-a100000@carson.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii

In response to email inquiries regarding quantitative morphometry I
posted 'Cavalieri_Macro' and 'Cavalieri_Doc' to Zippy in the Image/Contrib
folder.  Both are Word text files.  
The macro is a general purpose tool (we have many variants for specific
projects) that allows point counting estimates of area and volume.  It
also contains a reference frame for object (usually cell) counts using
optical or physical disector methods.  
	Eventually, I will hookup a serial port routine to control a 
Heidenhain VRZ 405 length guage for auto-recording depth of focus and
providing an audible cue when reaching a pre-set focus depth for optical
disector counting.   
	There are references given in the accompanying doc file.
Any bugs, questions or suggestions for improvements greatly appreciated.

Glen MacDonald
glenmac@u.washington.edu
Hearing Development Laboratories, RL-30
University of Washington
Seattle, WA  98195



From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be  Tue Jun 15 10:24:34 1993
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From: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be (Jacques VAN HELDEN)
Message-Id: <9306151624.AA20826@dec5.ulb.ac.be>
Subject: automatic cell edge finding
To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 17:24:44 WET DST
Cc: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be (Jacques VAN HELDEN)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Has anyone experience with automatic contourning of cells on microscope
images captured in differential interference contrast (DIC, or Nomarski
optics) ?

Thanks,

Jacques van Helden
jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be


From burk@aecom.yu.edu  Tue Jun 15 12:47:06 1993
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 11:47:06 +0100
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: burk@aecom.yu.edu
Subject: radius 33 accelerator and image.

I would like to up-grade my MacII and I'm considering the radium rocket 33
accelerator.  Does any one the compatibility of this hardware with image,
or have other suggestions for up-grading.

Robbie Burk
Robert D. Burk, M.D.




burk@aecom.yu.edu


From STPREMW@production.unocal.com  Tue Jun 15 02:21:00 1993
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From: "Withjack, Eric" <STPREMW@production.unocal.com>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Header offset GE9800 CT
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 09:21:00 PDT
Message-Id: <2C1DF793@courier>
Encoding: 31 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0

I suggest that you contact GE for this info since they consider it 
proprietary.  Years ago, I obtained this info from GE medical systems in 
Milwaukee but signed a non-disclosure agreement.  I've lost contact with most 
of these folks, but you may try getting in contact with Dr. Mike Dennis who 
is now in Cincinnati (GE NDE Systems) at 513 551-1590...this is a 4yr old 
number??? Good luck.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 REPLY FROM: Withjack, Eric Return-Path: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:01:41 -0500
Message-Id: <9306102109.AA21778@pennsy.med.jhu.edu>
Comment:  NIH Image Distribution List
Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Reply-To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: bsimon%pennsy.med.jhu.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu (Brett A. Simon)
To: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Header offset GE9800 CT
Does anyone know the offset for images from the GE 9800 CT scanner?
-Thanks- please reply  directly to bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu
_____
Brett Simon (bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu)
Dept. of Anesthesia and Critical Care Medicine
Johns Hopkins Hospital
(410) 614-1515




From gmei@hoh.mbl.edu  Tue Jun 15 13:48:21 1993
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 17:48:21 EDT
Message-Id: <9306152148.AA03129@hoh.mbl.edu.>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: gmei@hoh.mbl.edu (Guang Mei)
Subject: call for help

This is an inquiry and call for help:

We have a Scion LG-3 frame grabber board with 16 MB of video RAM.

We need to capture several (approx. 30) frames at video rate and
subsequently transfer the frames to a stack (without averaging).  Start and
stop capturing commands should be two different macro commands.  The stop
command should include the transfer of all the frames in the LG-3 video RAM
to a stack in the computer RAM.

Also, during the video rate capturing the settings of the two Digital to
Analog converters on the LG-3 (Scion[1] and Scion [2]) need to be changed
independently, without affecting the video rate capture.

Has anyone implemented such macro functions (or similar ones)?
Who else is interested in such macro functions?
Wayne, would you consider implementing these functions?
-------------
Guang Mei   gmei@hoh.mbl.edu     Tel:(508)548-3705 ext 374
Program of Architectural Dynamics in Living Cells
Marine Biological Laboratory, Woods Hole, MA 02543-1031


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Wed Jun 16 17:43:14 1993
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 16 Jun 1993 22:43:16 EDT
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 22:43:14 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Re: NTSC video from the Mac?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GZGO0R03DU0007SW@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>
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Just going through my mail file in reverse order and came to this message.
We have successfully recorded color video and color S-video using the
NEC PC VCR and the Computer Video TV encoder.  It's nice to know that
we actually needed to buy that box, since I was getting the impression
that actually all I needed was to make a cable.  My video tape had Mac
titlebars on the window...


>        I've been trying to get up to speed on what people have done with
>respect to getting video output from the Mac and from NIH Image in
>particular. I've read the quadra and centris video text files on zippy,
>plus the discussion in the NEC PC VCR macro in the /macros directory on
>zippy. Evidently there are ways to get monochrome video out, but not
>color. My interest is not just in sending processed images out of NIH
>Image, but also whether this could be used as a cheap way to do video
>titling for archival or demo tapes.
>        Mac Warehouse sells an item called a "TV Encoder" for US$299 which
>supposedly will provide NTSC video with the same color depth as the Mac
>video card which drives it (i.e., 256-color or 24-bit-color, but it will
>not work with the built-in video on the IIci, IIsi, or LC). Is this a
>possible solution? If not, why not? I understand that one must use a
>separate monitor for the image windows so as not to get the title bar on
>the videotape as well.
>        Another possible solution: There was an article in
>Radio-Electronics back in 1991 on the construction of a VGA-to-NTSC
>converter ("PC to TV Converter",Radio-Electronics vol. 62, no. 10, Oct
>1991, pp 33-8). This device actually converted the analog RGB coming out
>of the VGA connector to NTSC through some special video-processing chips.
>The kit price was about US$160, but I think you could also buy a completed
>version. It went on a card in the PC, but this was only to get DC power
>and to generate an interrupt for some reason which I can't recall. Kind of
>funky: the VGA signal comes out of the video card and goes right back into
>another card slot; another cable connects the card to the VGA monitor, and
>a third cable goes to the TV or VCR..The VGA and the Mac video (at least
>the Mac II/IIx/IIci) aren't all that different, are they? Could such a
>circuit be modified to work with the Mac video and keep the color info?
>        Provided this would work, It seems relatively straightforward to
>put Mac video on tape. Now let's suppose I want to take some existing
>videotape and copy it to another machine, dubbing in my titles at the
>appropriate spot. The titles are just still text frames. What additional
>equipment do I need to do this? Can I just use a video switch, or do I
>have to get the two sources to have a common sync? How is this done
>commercially? What about overlaying two video signals? If anyone can help
>or has ideas, I'd like to hear them.
>
>Kurt Scudder
>Dept. of Chemistry
>University of Washington
>Seattle, WA 98195
>scudder@u.washington.edu
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu  Thu Jun 17 00:55:52 1993
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From: jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (John Morrow)
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subscribe nih-image

From 00A0919@MSGATE.EMIS.hac.com  Mon Jun 17 09:04:09 1993
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Date: 17 Jun 1993 09:04:09 GMT
From: "Sumida, David S" <00A0919@MSGATE.EMIS.hac.com>
Subject: RE: Radius Rocket 33 compatibility with image
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Comment: MEMO 06.17.93 09.04

-----  ITEM 1  -----


       From: 00A0919@MRAM_EDEN@EDEN
     Author: Sumida, David S
         To: NIHIMAGE@SMTPGATE@SSW@EDEN
    Created: //
       Time: ::
    Subject: RE: Radius Rocket 33 compatibility with image




To  : eden::SSW::SMTPGATE::NIHIMAGE
Date: 17-JUN-1993 09:02:54.00

>Before I upgrade my MacII with the Rocket33 Accelerator for use with image
>analysis I want to determine whether anyone has experience with this
>hardware and its compatibility.

In partial answer to Robbie Burk's question:

As I mentioned earlier in another message to the listserv, I have upgraded my 
MacII with a Daystar Digital Universal PowerCache 030 running at 50 MHz and 
have found no incompatibility with software applications thusfar (i.e. Image, 
Word, Labview, etc).  I chose the Daystar over the Rocket33 because of strong 
recommendations from the computer technical staff here.  One of the advantages 
of the Daystar is that they offer upward compatibility/trade-ins with their 
newer Turbo 040 products as they become available for the different Mac 
platforms.  

David Sumida, PhD
00a0919@msgate.emis.hac.com



From afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com  Thu Jun 17 09:23:43 1993
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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 14:23:43 -0500
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com (Albert Ruppert)
Subject: Re: Radius Rocket 33 compatibility with image

>Before I upgrade my MacII with the Rocket33 Accelerator for use with image
>analysis I want to determine whether anyone has experience with this
>hardware and its compatibility.
>
>Robbie Burk
>Robert D. Burk, M.D.
>
>
>
>
>burk@aecom.yu.edu
Robbie, I have a IIx with a Radius (21") monitor. I recently installed the
Rocket 33 with 20 Megs RAM. It's a like new machine. Radius includes some
extensions for graphics (completely transparent to my use) that have
upgraded the interface (eg. writing to the screen) to such an extent that I
become impatient when I have to use the 68030 cpu for certain applications.
I have used Image since I upgraded with the Rocket and I have detected no
problems. I could say more but I don't want this to sound like an ad for
Radius. Send me an e-mail if you want more information.
===========================================================================
All thoughts expressed are mine and are not intended to reflect the
opinions of my employer. (disclaimer)

       	        	       	Al Ruppert  afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com
        	       	       	(908) 730-2979


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu Jun 17 15:30:17 1993
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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 15:30:17 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Video rate capture using Scion LG-3

>We have a Scion LG-3 frame grabber board with 16 MB of video RAM.
>
>We need to capture several (approx. 30) frames at video rate and
>subsequently transfer the frames to a stack (without averaging).  Start and
>stop capturing commands should be two different macro commands.  The stop
>command should include the transfer of all the frames in the LG-3 video RAM
>to a stack in the computer RAM.

I am planning to add a MakeMovie macro command that will have the ability
capture at 30fps using the Scion LG-3's built-in memory.

>Also, during the video rate capturing the settings of the two Digital to
>Analog converters on the LG-3 (Scion[1] and Scion [2]) need to be changed
>independently, without affecting the video rate capture.

You should be able to set the two D/A's independently of each other by
assigning values to either Scion[1] or Scion[2].

--wayne

p.s. I just upload v1.40b75, which has the ability to import 16-bit TIFF
files.


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Thu Jun 17 13:57:53 1993
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 17 Jun 1993 18:57:55 EDT
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 18:57:53 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Re: Header offset GE9800 CT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GZHUFPSYUA000BW6@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>
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>I suggest that you contact GE for this info since they consider it 
>proprietary.  Years ago, I obtained this info from GE medical systems in 
>Milwaukee but signed a non-disclosure agreement.  I've lost contact with most 

It is very easy to figure out the offset.  First, create an image which is
easy to interpret, for example, a wedge.  You might be able to do this with
camera controls.  Then use finder get info to find out the total size of
the image.
The square root of this number is a maximum edge (if the image is square).
Or maybe you know the dimensions.  If not, you can figure them out too
if you have a wedge.  Just import the image with zero offset and you guess
for horizontal size.  If the horizontal size is wrong, then the interface

From dark to bright will not be vertical.  Adjust it until you get it
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 AA14952; Thu, 17 Jun 93 16:10:33 MST
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:10:33 -0700 (MST)
From: jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (John Morrow)
Subject: Image 1.50 Release ETA
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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Wayne,

Is there an ETA for the next Release of NIH Image? 

John Morrow

From tg3@u.washington.edu  Thu Jun 17 09:03:33 1993
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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 17:03:33 -0800
From: Thurman Gillespy III <tg3@u.washington.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Header offset GE9800 CT
Cc: rowberg@u.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Mailstrom.1.03.21605.9528.tg3@u.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: Your message <01GZHUFPSYUA000BW6@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> of Thu, 17
 Jun 1993 18:00:02 -0500
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Figuring the offset for GE images is easy IF THE IMAGE IS NOT COMPRESSED. The
raster image data follows the header, so if you know the size of your images the
header (offset) size is calculated as follows:

offset = filesize - (rows * columns * 2)

You can find the filesize from the Get Info box in the Finder. Use the figure in
parentheses. Import them in Image as unsigned 16 bit integers, Swap Bytes =
OFF.

For CT and MRI scans:
  CT:  512 * 512 * 2 = 524,288
  MRI: 256 * 256 * 2 = 131,072

If the files are compressed, you're out of luck unless you have the file format
and compression algorithm. If this doesn't help, contact me directly, and tell
me exactly how you obtained the images and what the filenames look lile. We work
with GE CT and MRI scans on our Macintoshes and workstations frequently in our
Departement, and I'd be glad to help if I can.

Thurman Gillespy
Department of Radiology
University of Washington
Seattle, WA

tg3@u.washington.edu


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jun 18 09:53:06 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 09:53:06 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Image 1.50 Release ETA

>Is there an ETA for the next Release of NIH Image? 

If I had to guess, I would say the official release of 1.50 will be in two
or three months. One of the things I still have to do is add balloon help
for all the menu commands.

--wayne


From SQUIDNEY@uncvx1.oit.unc.edu  Fri Jun 18 08:54:10 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 13:54:10 -0500 (EST)
From: SQUIDNEY@uncvx1.oit.unc.edu
Subject: Re: Fluorescence image manipulation
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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        Would anyone be willing to suggest a text (reference or
otherwise) on digital image processing?  My specific interest is
in the enhancement of fluorescence images of biological specimens
but I don't wish to exclude reading in other areas.  I have used
Image successfully for many applications and now find that I would
like to know much more about image enhancement and recovery.  A
general reference is sought (one which I might go to when my PI
asks those sticky questions) and/or materials dealing with the use
of convolutions, Fourier transforms, and the application of other
digital 'filters.'  I would be very happy to compile and resubmit
a list if I get enough suggestions and I may be E-mailed directly
at squidney@uncvx1.oit.unc.edu.
                                        Sidney L. Shaw
                                        UNC-Chapel Hill

From frodes@ibg.uit.no  Fri Jun 18 14:52:02 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 19:52:02 -0500
To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu
From: frodes@ibg.uit.no (Frode Skarstein)
X-Sender: frodes@darwin.ibg.uit.no
Subject: Color analysis

Hello!

        I am sending this mail to see if anyone of you can help me with a
problem I have run into in my graduate work. I am trying to give a better
evaluation of the red coloration in my charr (fish), and I want to have
better values than: not red, red, very red and so on...

        So I was wondering if any of you knew of a program capable of
analysing coloration, that is wavelenghts and intensities, for the mac. I
have looked at NIH Image, but that is, as far as I know, only able to do
grayscale analysis. I also have access to a copy of Adobe Photoshop, and it
kind of does the job, but I am not quite pleased with it, it is more a
program for picture manipulation than for analysing.

        So if anyone of you know about if Image can do exact evaluation of
the colors in an image, or knows of any program that can, I would be very
grateful for any help or hints I could get...


                                Frode Skarstein 
                                graduate student in evolutionary ecology
                                Department of ecology/Zoology
                                University of Tromsoe
                                Norway


From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Fri Jun 18 18:07:38 1993
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Date:    Fri, 18 Jun 93 18:07:38 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930618180738.28425877@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: RE: Color analysis
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH


to: 
Frode Skarstein - 
regarding your question of color analysis - Try ColorImage 1.32
This is a modification of Image 1.32 designed for exactly the 
sorts of problems you deal with. A version is available on the 
zippy.nimh server. The author, Joe Ayers, has completed a newer 
version of ColorImage that will also run on 68040 machines, 
but that is not yet posted. If you are using a 68030, however, 
you can use the version on the Server. 
			Harvey Karten 

From CAZ@CU.NIH.GOV  Fri Jun 18 10:41:05 1993
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: "Cindy Walczak" <CAZ@CU.NIH.GOV>
Date:     Fri, 18 Jun 1993  14:41:05 EDT
Subject:  set scale question

I'm having trouble making measurements with a millimeter scale
in Image (using 1.47).

I have a batch of xray images and an image of a ruler.  I did
not set the scale when I captured the images (no diamond
appears after the file name in the title bar when I open the
files in image).  I want to set the scale to millimeters using
the ruler, and have the measured lengths show up in millimeters
when I do measurements on the 20 other images.

BUT I cannot get the set scale to apply to anything but the ruler.
Doing RECORD PREFERENCES, doesn't do it, PROPAGATE is grayed out
most of the time.  I know I did this before, but I have forgotten
the sequence and/or trick.  Can anyone out there please help?
  Thanks!
  Cindy


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Fri Jun 18 10:56:47 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 14:56:47 -0400
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Re: set scale question


>BUT I cannot get the set scale to apply to anything but the ruler.
>Doing RECORD PREFERENCES, doesn't do it, PROPAGATE is grayed out
>most of the time.  I know I did this before, but I have forgotten
>the sequence and/or trick.  Can anyone out there please help?

There are several ways you can handle this
1) before capture have one image open that has your scale, then say start
capturing. This image will get the scale.
2) Scale your image, load the other images and say propagate spatial scale

Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu  Fri Jun 18 11:38:52 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 15:38:52 -0400
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu (Brett A. Simon)
Subject: Re: set scale question

>I'm having trouble making measurements with a millimeter scale
>in Image (using 1.47).
>
>I have a batch of xray images and an image of a ruler.  I did
>not set the scale when I captured the images (no diamond
>appears after the file name in the title bar when I open the
>files in image).  I want to set the scale to millimeters using
>the ruler, and have the measured lengths show up in millimeters
>when I do measurements on the 20 other images.
>
>BUT I cannot get the set scale to apply to anything but the ruler.
>Doing RECORD PREFERENCES, doesn't do it, PROPAGATE is grayed out
>most of the time.  I know I did this before, but I have forgotten
>the sequence and/or trick.  Can anyone out there please help?
>  Thanks!
>  Cindy

You need to 1) measure a known length of the ruler in pixels using the
select line tool, 2) Use that information to set the scaling with the SET
SCALE command in the ANALYZE menu, and the 3) propogate the scale to all
the open images with the PROPOGATE SPARIAL CALIBRATION command.  If you
save your newly scaled images, the scale will be preserved.

_____
Brett Simon (bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu)
Dept. of Anesthesia and Critical Care Medicine
Johns Hopkins Hospital
(410) 614-1515


From frodes@ibg.uit.no  Fri Jun 18 16:35:35 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 21:35:35 -0500
To: nih-image <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: frodes@ibg.uit.no (Frode Skarstein)
X-Sender: frodes@darwin.ibg.uit.no
Subject: RE: Color analysis

Thanks for responding so fast!

I must ask you to give me the adress to the "zippy.nimh server" as you call it. 

The program you named sounds interesting, hope I can use it.
                                                                           
            frode
                                                                           
           """""""


From morgan@rock.concert.net  Fri Jun 18 12:01:00 1993
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	id AA24665; Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:01:00 -0400
From: Morgan J Ryan -- Neil Patterson Publishers <morgan@rock.concert.net>
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X-Disclaimer-2:     Opinions expressed are not necessarily
X-Disclaimer-3:     those of MCNC or the CONCERT Network.
Message-Id: <9306182001.AA24665@rock.concert.net>
Subject: Re: Fluorescence image manipulation
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:01:00 EDT
In-Reply-To: <01GZIY3HRJO2000RJW@uncvx1.oit.unc.edu>; from "SQUIDNEY%uncvx1.oit.unc.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu" at Jun 18, 93 12:52 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi Sidney. I edit science textbooks at a publishing house up the
street from you (the old Broad Street Coffee Shop--that's us now.)
I just got on the Image list and don't know much about it. I'm trying
to learn everything a science editor should know about computer
graphics. You sound halfway in--veteran of Image, asking for advice
about what to read. Can you tell *me* what I need to read? What
software I should download and fool with to learn? I'd be grateful for
a little guidance.
Thanks,
Morgan Ryan
Neil Patterson Publishers
Division of Simon and Schuster
919-933-0440
morgan@rock.concert.net


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jun 18 15:24:07 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 15:24:07 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Color analysis

Image can capture 24-bit color using either the Capture Color or Acquire
commands. The color image is stored as a three slice(red, green and blue)
stack. To measure red coloration all you have do is measure mean
intensities in the red slice. In the near future, I plan to add the ability
to convert from RGB to HSI(hue, saturation, intensity), which will allow
intensities of color images to be measured and also allow thresolding based
on hue.

--wayne


From wching@alice.music.yale.edu  Fri Jun 18 12:51:33 1993
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From: William Ching <wching@alice.music.yale.edu>
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Reply-To: ching-william@yale.edu

statistics nih-image

From gmei@hoh.mbl.edu  Fri Jun 18 12:53:26 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:53:26 EDT
Message-Id: <9306182053.AA10233@hoh.mbl.edu.>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: gmei@hoh.mbl.edu (Guang Mei)
Subject: Remote Focus Accessory controlled by Mac?

Hi, 

Does anyone have experience using a Mac to control "Remote Focus Accessory"
made by Nikon?  We have a Nikon Microphot-SA type microscope, there is a
Remote Focus Accessory (a small box) which is connected to the microscope
to control the stage (to do z-scan). In the booklet it said that Remote
Focus Accessory can be controlled by IBM PC/XT type computer through RS232.
however when I tried to use Mac IIx to control the Remote Focus Accessory,
I did not get any response (I used Modem port on the Mac). I am wondering
whether this is doable or not. Any response is appreciated.
-------------
Guang Mei   gmei@hoh.mbl.edu     Tel:(508)548-3705 ext 374
Program of Architectural Dynamics in Living Cells
Marine Biological Laboratory, Woods Hole, MA 02543-1031


From ltague@physio1.utmem.edu  Fri Jun 18 11:17:28 1993
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Cc: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>,
        ltague@physio1.utmem.edu
Subject: Re: Remote Focus Accessory controlled by Mac? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 18 Jun 93 15:56:14 CDT."
             <9306182053.AA10233@hoh.mbl.edu.> 
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:17:28 -0500
From: ltague@physio1.utmem.edu
X-Mts: smtp

>Remote Focus Accessory (a small box) which is connected to the microscope
>to control the stage (to do z-scan). In the booklet it said that Remote
>Focus Accessory can be controlled by IBM PC/XT type computer through RS232.
>however when I tried to use Mac IIx to control the Remote Focus Accessory,
>I did not get any response (I used Modem port on the Mac). I am wondering
>whether this is doable or not. Any response is appreciated.
-------------
>Guang Mei   gmei@hoh.mbl.edu     Tel:(508)548-3705 ext 374
>Program of Architectural Dynamics in Living Cells
>Marine Biological Laboratory, Woods Hole, MA 02543-1031

If you know which pins on the RS232 actually control the serial device
you should have little problem (?????) configuring the MacII to
accomplish the same task.  Make sure that you are talking at the right
speed.  Some of the "semi-intelligent" instruments are sensitive to the
communication specifications set on the Mac side.  Also an in-line
RS232 "snooper" can be very useful.

Larry

From RBLYSTON@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU  Fri Jun 18 11:34:49 1993
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Date:         Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:34:49 CDT
From: Robert Blystone <RBLYSTON@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Remote Focus Accessory controlled by Mac?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 18 Jun 1993 15:59:42 -0500 from
 <gmei%hoh.mbl.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu>

We use the Nikon Remote Focus Accessory regularly; however, we run it on an old
 XT that was going to be used as a door stop.  To my knowledge there is no Mac
version of the software.  You can probably find an old XT for virtually nothing
 and just use the program provided by Nikon.  It works well.  Blystone in Texas

**********************
ROBERT V. BLYSTONE                    PHONE:(210)736-7243
DEPARTMENT OF BIOLOGY                   FAX:(210)736-7229
Trinity University                   E-Mail:RBlyston@Trinity.edu
715 Stadium Drive
San Antonio, TX, 78212

From gstuart@unixg.ubc.ca  Fri Jun 18 08:08:29 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 15:08:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gregory Stuart <gstuart@unixg.ubc.ca>
Subject: comet (single cell gel) software
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9306181529.A29402-b100000@unixg.ubc.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hello! Perhaps the subscribers to this list could help me. I am a graduate
student, and our lab has recently purchased the Perceptics pixelbuffer
board and a Cohu CCD camera to do image analysis on the Mac. We are using
Image144VDM supplied by Perceptics. We want to use the system to monitor
for genetic damage in occupational settings. Single human cells are spread
on a microscope slide in agarose, the cells are lysed, and the DNA is
electrophoresed. DNA which has been damaged fragments and runs ahead of
the main body of the DNA. The DNA is stained with a fluorescent dye and
the image captured through a microscope for quantitation. 
This technique is variously called the "single-cell gel electrophoresis"
or "comet" assay (the product looks like a comet with "head" and "tail"
regions). We want to separately quantitate the head and tail regions. 
QUESTION : commercial software has been written, but we are a new lab on a
very limited budget. Is there any public-domain software out there written
for this purpose? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance
- Greg Stuart.



From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU  Sun Jun 20 10:36:15 1993
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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 14:36:15 -0400
Message-Id: <9306201836.AA00931@cascade.MIT.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Radius Rocket 33

We looked closely at the Rocket, and ended up not being able to keep
it working.  Radius makes excellent products and has some of the best
technical support practices and people in the industry, but the Rocket
is not entirely stable and probably never will be.  Much of the nominal
speed advantage is lost in practice to bus arbitration, even though the
Rocket uses block mode transfers; mysterious crashes kept crashing the
IIcx we tried to accelerate, which the Rocket's principal engineer
attributed to "errors in Apple's 32-bit compatibility code."  

From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU  Sun Jun 20 10:45:17 1993
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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 14:45:17 -0400
Message-Id: <9306201845.AA01000@cascade.MIT.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Textbooks on Image Processing

Two classics in the field are by Harry Andrews:  Andrews & Pratt and
Andrews & Hunt (or Pratt & Andrews, etc).  The books present the state
of the art circa 1970, which encompasses most of Fourier optics and
digital image reconstruction.  There are a number of more recent works,
but none is as succinct as these.
For a comprehemsive treatment of optics, but not of digital optics
or non-linear optics, see Born & Wolf.

Hope this helps.

 - David Salzman, Ph.D.

From mhaury@pasteur.fr  Mon Jun 21 11:58:26 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 09:58:26 +0200
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: mhaury@pasteur.fr (Matthias Haury)
X-Sender: mhaury@pasteur.fr (Unverified)
Subject: Plot Profile Macro for Multiple Lanes

I would like to ask everybody out there if you have heard about a macro
that allows to define automatically several lanes on a image (we have
westernblots or coomassie blue gel images and would like to scan the
plotprofiles of 28 lanes on each gel) and export the plot profile in a (or
multiple) text file(s). What we would like, is to have a procedure to p.ex.
define the first and the last lane on the image, and have the macro find
the other lanes (the user enters the number of total lanes) automatically,
and then export all the plot profiles in a (preferably one) text file.

Every type of macro that does (even part of the job p.ex. export routines
etc..) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot...

Matthias
------------------------
Matthias Haury
Institut Pasteur
25 rue du Doctor Roux
75724 PARIS CEDEX 15
Tel: (33)-1-45.68.84.21
Fax: (33)-1-45.68.86.39
EMail: mhaury@pasteur.fr


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Mon Jun 21 04:43:22 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 08:43:22 -0400
Message-Id: <9306211243.AA13340@helix.nih.gov>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Re: Plot Profile Macro for Multiple Lanes

>I would like to ask everybody out there if you have heard about a macro
>that allows to define automatically several lanes on a image (we have
>westernblots or coomassie blue gel images and would like to scan the
>plotprofiles of 28 lanes on each gel) and export the plot profile in a (or
>multiple) text file(s). What we would like, is to have a procedure to p.ex.
>define the first and the last lane on the image, and have the macro find
>the other lanes (the user enters the number of total lanes) automatically,
>and then export all the plot profiles in a (preferably one) text file.

You have to answer several questions for yourself on this one before you
start. Are your lanes exactly evenly spaced? If not then you have a
difficult task at best. 

If so, you can easily have a ROI which moves across the image in a loop.
Inside the loop it will do a plot profile and export the plot profile. It
should only ask for the filename of the first one, then it can concat the
index of the loop for a filename and should not ask on the rest. You start
your macro by reading in the roi which you have drawn into several vars. It
is easy to increment the var to the next lane if you know how many pixels
to the next lane. A MakeROI call can create the ROI.


Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Mon Jun 21 04:46:22 1993
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Re: Radius Rocket 33

In our lab we have purchased several accelerators over the past year. One a
radius rocket (68040) and one a daystar (68030). The daystar has worked
flawlessly since the day installed and has never crashed. The radius rocket
does not last 5 minutes in any computer that it is installed.

Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu  Mon Jun 21 00:19:21 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 08:19:21 -0800
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu (Steven Ruzin)
Subject: Re: Textbooks on Image Processing

>Two classics in the field are by Harry Andrews:  Andrews & Pratt and
>Andrews & Hunt (or Pratt & Andrews, etc).  The books present the state
>of the art circa 1970, which encompasses most of Fourier optics and
>digital image reconstruction.  There are a number of more recent works,
>but none is as succinct as these.
>For a comprehemsive treatment of optics, but not of digital optics
>or non-linear optics, see Born & Wolf.
>
>Hope this helps.
>

It would if we had the entire reference. ie: Title, publisher...

Steven Ruzin
NSF Center of Plant Developmental Biology
Dept Plant Biology
Univ California Berkeley


From provost@corl.nbc.upenn.edu  Mon Jun 21 07:17:31 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 11:17:31 -0400
From: provost@corl.nbc.upenn.edu (Michael T. Provost)
Message-Id: <9306211517.AA02377@corl.nbc.upenn.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu


Our lab is contemplating the purchase of a color (RGB) camera.  The
primary application would be for digitizing fluorochrome labelled thick
(~100um) cross-sections of equine cortical bone illuminated in
reflected light under a microscope.  Labels are red, orange, yellow,
green and blue.  Except for the blue label, all of the labels are very,
very bright - this is not a low light application.  Currently, we have
a Quadra 700, a DT Quick Capture board and a Pulnix TM-745 black and
white camera.

Minimally, our wish list includes:  640 x 480 resolution, low noise,
gain control (I assume this applies to color as it does in black and
white?) and a price tag that won't break the bank.  I would appreciate
the comments, thoughts, experiences and recommendations of others with
respect to specific RGB cameras and their use with NIH-Image.  Please
reply to me directly -

	provost@corl.nbc.upenn.edu

I will summarize and post the results of this inquiry in a few weeks -
if there is anything to summarize and post :-).

Thanks for your help,

Mike

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael T. Provost, VMD
Comparative Orthopaedic Research Laboratory          Phone:  215-444-5800x2267
U of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine      FAX:  215-444-4724
Kennett Square, PA 19348-1692                        provost@corl.nbc.upenn.edu


From ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu  Mon Jun 21 00:26:54 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 08:26:54 -0800
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu (Steven Ruzin)
Subject: Re: Textbooks on Image Processing

>Two classics in the field are by Harry Andrews:  Andrews & Pratt and
>Andrews & Hunt (or Pratt & Andrews, etc).  The books present the state
>of the art circa 1970, which encompasses most of Fourier optics and
>digital image reconstruction.  There are a number of more recent works,
>but none is as succinct as these.
>For a comprehemsive treatment of optics, but not of digital optics
>or non-linear optics, see Born & Wolf.
>


A couple of very good contemporary references on Image Processing are:

1)      Russ, JC. 1992. The Image Processing handbook. CRC Press.

This is a good basic introduction to the subject. It doesn't go into       
                    detail, but it's a good place to start.

2)      Gonzalez, RC and RE Woods. 1992. Digital image processing.
Addison-Wesley Publishing Company.

A much more thorough coverage of the subject. Includes Fourier transforms,
image compression, and a bit on pattern recognition and expert systems. 


Of course one of the most thorough treatises on microscope optics and video
microscopy is:

3)      Inoue, S. 1986. Video Microscopy. Plenum Press. 

Steve...

Steven Ruzin
NSF Center of Plant Developmental Biology
Dept Plant Biology
Univ California Berkeley


From mark@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au  Tue Jun 22 04:28:01 1993
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 09:28:01 EST
Message-Id: <9306212328.AA01073@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mark@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au (Mark Jessell)
Subject: Re: Textbooks on Image Processing

Another good textbook is Computer-Assisted Microscopy by John C Russ, 1990
Plenum Press, New York. ISBN 0-306-43410-5

Mark

Mark Jessell
Victorian Institute of Earth & Planetary Sciences
Dept of Earth Sciences 
Monash University, Clayton, VIC, 3168 
Australia

mark@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au

Tel (61)(3) 565 4902 
Fax (61)(3) 565 4903


From SBK111@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU  Mon Jun 21 15:41:00 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 19:41 EDT
From: Barr Kum <SBK111@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject: Re: NTSC video from the Mac?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.Edu
Message-Id: <1A0B7A2E2D5F80B680@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU>
X-Organization: Marine Sciences Research Center
X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.Edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.Edu"
X-Vms-Cc: SBK111


Sometime back I posted a query requesting help on recording a single image at 
a time onto a VCR.  I did recieve replies which are appended at the end.  I did manage to make a movie sequence by 
recording each image in this manner. This method bypasses the memory 
constraint when using animations on the computer.

Equipment used was
1) Mac II cx
2) Syscom Mediator Scan convertor 
3) Nec PC VCR (serial port controllable)
Software
NIH Image 1.49

Multiple images of contour plots were made on a workstation saved in Tiff 
format and telneted onto the Mac.  Caution if you can generate PICT files use 
them as they use up less space.  Out of the 600 images generated there was 
space for only 250 on a disk with 80 MB free space. 
The VCR was hooked up to the video output via scan convertor. Another line connecting VCR serial port and Mac serial was used to control VCR actions from the Mac.  A macro written in NIH image was then used to crontrol the action of the VCR.  Each image w
called up.
The menu bar etc were visible in the movie.  Wayne Rasband has said that he 
will consider having a Macro call for PHOTOMODE.  This should solve that 
problem.  
For some reason if a Pause command was sent to the VCR insted of a STOP the syncronisation got mixed up. Recording would occur when the image was being closed etc.  
Ive given the Macro used below. 

The general outline of the macro is as follows
1) Call up a image file
2) Send message to VCR via serial port to start recording
3) Time a sec (or any other)
4) Send message to VCR to stop recording
5) close file, loop

What is needed is to have photomode between 1 and 2, where the whole
Image fills the screen.

I had to do this thru a macro as i was sending 250 images to the VCR.
However f you are sending only a couple you could load the image, go into
photomode and have a macro that will can be activated by command keys to
send message to VCR to start recording and stop after fixed time.

Hope this helps

Sereno Barr-Kumarakulasinghe
Marine Sciences Research Center
SUNY @ Stony Brook
NY 11794-5000
e-mail: sbarrkum@csserv1.ic.sunysb.edu
        sbk111@msrc.sunysb.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------
macro 'FileToVCR';
var
linefeed,return,r,c,p,s,t,crlf,rc, ps,st,file:string;
i:integer;
begin
  r:=chr(82);
  c:=chr(67);
  p:=chr(80);
  s:=chr(83);
   t:=chr(84);
  linefeed:=chr(10);
  return:=chr(13);
  crlf:=concat(return,linefeed);
  rc:=concat(r,c,crlf);
  ps:=concat(p,s,crlf)
  st:=concat(s,t,crlf)
  RequiresVersion(1.48);
  OpenSerial('1200 baud,no parity,eight data,one stop');
    for i:=1 to 275 do begin
    SetImport('TIFF');
    Import('Temt', i:3)
   {photo Mode should be included here when available}
   PutSerial(rc);
    Wait(4);
   PutSerial(st);
  Wait(3);}
  close;
  Beep;
  end
end;

-----------------------------------------------------------

From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov

Barr Kum writes:
>I need to know of a way to write images from a window to a videotape on a
>VCR. We've got a NEC VCR that is supposed to be capable of advancing frame 
>by frame.


You have a number of options, depending on your budget and requirements you
might be able to do the job with next to nothing, or you might need fairly
big bucks.

Option 1) Get access to a quadra. The quadra has built in video. You will
need to make or buy a cable that goes from the quadra to BNC. Read trhe
document:
 quadra_video.txt in /pub/image/documents of zippy.nimh.nih.gov. I might
also be able to send you a schematic. YOU ****MUST**** USE APPLE
CONVOLUTION MODE in the monitors control panal to get decent video. You
will only get grayscale.

Option 2) (not recommended) Use a RasterOps video expander. Its cheap (and
its also inexpensive). It does a worse job than the quadra video.

Option 3) Buy a radius video vision, get color and decent video. High cost.


For all the above options you can use the serial port macro calls to
advance your vcr, if the vcr is that "smart" a vcr.

Mark
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: kartenh@sdsc.edu

Another option is the Scion NTSC output card, for about $595.?[

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	D1887@AppleLink.Apple.Com 
FROM:   Bonnie Polesky
        D1887
 
SUB:    Mac to VCR
 
Dear Mr. Kum:
 
In response to your inquiry of writing images from a Mac window to a VCR, Scion
Corporation offers a product, the TV-3, which is capable of outputing grayscale
images from a version of NIH Image in just this way. The TV-3 converts the
image contained in its memory buffer into an RS-170 video signal for outputting
to devices such as video tape recorders and video printers.  The TV-3 sells for
$595 and is available direct from Scion.
 
If you wish to receive literature on the TV-3, please forward your address and
fax number to us.  Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions.
 
Sincerely,
 
Bonnie Polesky
Director, Sales & Marketing

=============================================================================== 

From:	IN%"mvivino@helix.nih.Gov"  8-APR-1993 15:18:16.84
Subj:	RE: Mac to VCR (using a quadra 950)

>From what youve said and going thru the document quadra..at zippy... it looks
>like color output can be written onto video-tape. However how do I get about
>sending only what is in a window to the vcr  as against the whole screen.
>Any advice really welcome.

I was pretty sure it was only grayscale. What you need to do is first make
the cable. I have uploaded a schematic to zippy.nimh.nih.gov in the
pub/image/contrib directory.

Then to output just the image you can do one of two things:
1) Have only the cable running as video and load the image into the Image
program. Then select Photomode.
2) Use two monitors, one from the cable the other from a built in video
card (use this as monitor one). Then make your image scaled as large as
monitor two.

Mark

============================================================================ 






From SBK111@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU  Mon Jun 21 15:45:00 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 19:45 EDT
From: Barr Kum <SBK111@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject: Re: MAC to VCR (Sorry for the delay)
To: nih-image@soils.umn.Edu
Message-Id: <1A0ADE1E16FF80B680@SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU>
X-Organization: Marine Sciences Research Center
X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.Edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-Vms-Cc: SBK111


Sorry for the delay in re-posting this message. Hope it helps.
Barr-Kum

---------------------------------------------


Sometime back I posted a query requesting help on recording a single image at 
a time onto a VCR.  I did recieve replies which are appended at the end.  I did manage to make a movie sequence by 
recording each image in this manner. This method bypasses the memory 
constraint when using animations on the computer.

Equipment used was
1) Mac II cx
2) Syscom Mediator Scan convertor 
3) Nec PC VCR (serial port controllable)
Software
NIH Image 1.49

Multiple images of contour plots were made on a workstation saved in Tiff 
format and telneted onto the Mac.  Caution if you can generate PICT files use 
them as they use up less space.  Out of the 600 images generated there was 
space for only 250 on a disk with 80 MB free space. 
The VCR was hooked up to the video output via scan convertor. Another line connecting VCR serial port and Mac serial was used to control VCR actions from the Mac.  A macro written in NIH image was then used to crontrol the action of the VCR.  Each image w
called up.
The menu bar etc were visible in the movie.  Wayne Rasband has said that he 
will consider having a Macro call for PHOTOMODE.  This should solve that 
problem.  
For some reason if a Pause command was sent to the VCR insted of a STOP the syncronisation got mixed up. Recording would occur when the image was being closed etc.  
Ive given the Macro used below. 

The general outline of the macro is as follows
1) Call up a image file
2) Send message to VCR via serial port to start recording
3) Time a sec (or any other)
4) Send message to VCR to stop recording
5) close file, loop

What is needed is to have photomode between 1 and 2, where the whole
Image fills the screen.

I had to do this thru a macro as i was sending 250 images to the VCR.
However f you are sending only a couple you could load the image, go into
photomode and have a macro that will can be activated by command keys to
send message to VCR to start recording and stop after fixed time.

Hope this helps

Sereno Barr-Kumarakulasinghe
Marine Sciences Research Center
SUNY @ Stony Brook
NY 11794-5000
e-mail: sbarrkum@csserv1.ic.sunysb.edu
        sbk111@msrc.sunysb.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------
macro 'FileToVCR';
var
linefeed,return,r,c,p,s,t,crlf,rc, ps,st,file:string;
i:integer;
begin
  r:=chr(82);
  c:=chr(67);
  p:=chr(80);
  s:=chr(83);
   t:=chr(84);
  linefeed:=chr(10);
  return:=chr(13);
  crlf:=concat(return,linefeed);
  rc:=concat(r,c,crlf);
  ps:=concat(p,s,crlf)
  st:=concat(s,t,crlf)
  RequiresVersion(1.48);
  OpenSerial('1200 baud,no parity,eight data,one stop');
    for i:=1 to 275 do begin
    SetImport('TIFF');
    Import('Temt', i:3)
   {photo Mode should be included here when available}
   PutSerial(rc);
    Wait(4);
   PutSerial(st);
  Wait(3);}
  close;
  Beep;
  end
end;

-----------------------------------------------------------

From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov

Barr Kum writes:
>I need to know of a way to write images from a window to a videotape on a
>VCR. We've got a NEC VCR that is supposed to be capable of advancing frame 
>by frame.


You have a number of options, depending on your budget and requirements you
might be able to do the job with next to nothing, or you might need fairly
big bucks.

Option 1) Get access to a quadra. The quadra has built in video. You will
need to make or buy a cable that goes from the quadra to BNC. Read trhe
document:
 quadra_video.txt in /pub/image/documents of zippy.nimh.nih.gov. I might
also be able to send you a schematic. YOU ****MUST**** USE APPLE
CONVOLUTION MODE in the monitors control panal to get decent video. You
will only get grayscale.

Option 2) (not recommended) Use a RasterOps video expander. Its cheap (and
its also inexpensive). It does a worse job than the quadra video.

Option 3) Buy a radius video vision, get color and decent video. High cost.


For all the above options you can use the serial port macro calls to
advance your vcr, if the vcr is that "smart" a vcr.

Mark
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: kartenh@sdsc.edu

Another option is the Scion NTSC output card, for about $595.?[

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	D1887@AppleLink.Apple.Com 
FROM:   Bonnie Polesky
        D1887
 
SUB:    Mac to VCR
 
Dear Mr. Kum:
 
In response to your inquiry of writing images from a Mac window to a VCR, Scion
Corporation offers a product, the TV-3, which is capable of outputing grayscale
images from a version of NIH Image in just this way. The TV-3 converts the
image contained in its memory buffer into an RS-170 video signal for outputting
to devices such as video tape recorders and video printers.  The TV-3 sells for
$595 and is available direct from Scion.
 
If you wish to receive literature on the TV-3, please forward your address and
fax number to us.  Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions.
 
Sincerely,
 
Bonnie Polesky
Director, Sales & Marketing

=============================================================================== 

From:	IN%"mvivino@helix.nih.Gov"  8-APR-1993 15:18:16.84
Subj:	RE: Mac to VCR (using a quadra 950)

>From what youve said and going thru the document quadra..at zippy... it looks
>like color output can be written onto video-tape. However how do I get about
>sending only what is in a window to the vcr  as against the whole screen.
>Any advice really welcome.

I was pretty sure it was only grayscale. What you need to do is first make
the cable. I have uploaded a schematic to zippy.nimh.nih.gov in the
pub/image/contrib directory.

Then to output just the image you can do one of two things:
1) Have only the cable running as video and load the image into the Image
program. Then select Photomode.
2) Use two monitors, one from the cable the other from a built in video
card (use this as monitor one). Then make your image scaled as large as
monitor two.

Mark

============================================================================ 



From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Tue Jun 22 05:20:16 1993
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 09:20:16 -0400
Message-Id: <9306221320.AA23439@helix.nih.gov>
To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Image text window for typing comments & results

For Image 1.50b

Since many people want a window for typing comments, as well as placement
of data or results, perhaps they can now use the new text window and copy
and paste from the results window. It does seem to work. Be sure to check
headings in the Options... (under Analyze) to include the heading from the
last measurement. Then paste into the text window and add your comments.
Haven't tried doing this with a macro yet, but I don't see why not.




Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jun 22 09:08:33 1993
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	id AA04438; Tue, 22 Jun 93 09:22:50 -0400
Message-Id: <9306221322.AA04438@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 09:08:33 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: MAC to VCR with Photomode command

Here is a version Barr-Kum's macro for recording a sequence of images on a
NEC PC VCR that uses the new Photomode command in V1.50. I had to add the
SetCursor command to get the cursor to reappear.


--wayne

----------------------------------------------------------- 
macro 'Mac To NEC PC VCR';
var
  linefeed,return,r,c,p,s,t,crlf,rc, ps,st,file:string;
  i:integer;
begin
  r:=chr(82);
  c:=chr(67);
  p:=chr(80);
  s:=chr(83);
  t:=chr(84);
  linefeed:=chr(10);
  return:=chr(13);
  crlf:=concat(return,linefeed);
  rc:=concat(r,c,crlf);
  ps:=concat(p,s,crlf)
  st:=concat(s,t,crlf)
  RequiresVersion(1.50);
  OpenSerial('1200 baud,no parity,eight data,one stop'); 
  for i:=1 to 275 do begin
    SetImport('TIFF');
    Import('Temp', i:3)
    Photomode(true);
    PutSerial(rc);
    Wait(4);
    PutSerial(st);
    Wait(3);
    Photomode(false);
    SetCursor('Arrow');
    close;
    Beep;
  end
end;


From LOBSTER@northeastern.edu  Sat Jun 22 06:28:32 1993
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 <01GZOE2L381S9D6BYT@northeastern.edu>; Tue, 22 Jun 1993 11:28:32 EST
Date: 22 Jun 1993 11:28:32 -0500 (EST)
From: LOBSTER@northeastern.edu
Subject: MacWorld Expo
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GZOE2L4AMQ9D6BYT@northeastern.edu>
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I am organizing a session of the Education Conference at MacWorld Espo
in Boston titled "Cutting Edge Scientific Applications of the Macintosh" and
would like to get someone to talk about applications of the new features of
NIH Image. Wayne isn't attending so If you have any ideas contact me at
(617) 581-7370. I need to organize this ASAP
Thanks
Joseph Ayers
Internet: lobster@northeastern.edu
Applelink: U0729

From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Tue Jun 22 09:18:42 1993
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 13:18:42 -0400
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To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Software for volume render of non-aligned 3D pixel data?

CC to sci.image.processing, comp.graphics


      I'm looking for software which will accept the X, Y, Z  and pixel
 value for each point in a 3-Dimensional volume space 
(i.e. Pi(Xi, Yi, Zi )). These points are not symmetrically spaced with
 respect to each other. The input file might look something like:

    X            Y                Z              Value
21.836         14.227          5.501               18
22.919         13.745         4.90                  31
etc.
etc.

The data is therefore in the form of cross-sections through the 3-D 
volume, taken at different known orientations. The cross-sections
 are not parallel to each other. The data points are fairly sparse, 
especially between the cross-sections. 

I'd like to find software which will take this input and generate a 
3-D Cartesian filled volume of data points (symmetrically spaced 
filled volume). Since the unmeasured (missing) data points are 
numerous, and with different number of missing points in each 
direction, the interpolation should be made with different weights 
and window sizes in each direction.

So what software is out there that has this volume generating 
capability? Additionally, if you have similar type data and have 
found any pointers of use, I'd like to hear those too.

Thanks in advance,

Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Tue Jun 22 17:38:25 1993
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Date:    Tue, 22 Jun 93 17:38:25 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930622173825.2880213c@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: RE: Image text window for typing comments & results
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

Mark, 
	The text window works very well. Is there also a way to 
paste in graphics data (e.g. Profile of a Line Plot) to the 
text window?  If I copy a plot and try ot paste it into 
the text window, instead it pastes it into the original grpahics 
graphics [sic] window. 

Also, is there a way to copy only selected columns from the 
Results Window? ( i.e. without first resetting the columns under
the Options window).

Score another big point for Wayne.
			regards, Harvey 

From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Tue Jun 22 17:40:31 1993
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Date:    Tue, 22 Jun 93 17:40:31 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930622174031.2880213c@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: Undo function in Text Window?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"

Wayne, 
	Will there be an undo function in the text window?
Can the Text window be opened with a Macro?
			regards, Harvey 

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jun 22 12:46:35 1993
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 12:46:35 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Undo function in Text Window?

>Wayne, 
>	Will there be an undo function in the text window?
>Can the Text window be opened with a Macro?

These are both on my list of things to do.

--wayne


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Tue Jun 22 10:01:32 1993
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 14:01:32 -0400
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: RE: Image text window for typing comments & results

 If I copy a plot and try ot paste it into 
>the text window, instead it pastes it into the original grpahics 
>graphics [sic] window. 

I guess text will stay text and images will stay images.... for now anyway.


>Also, is there a way to copy only selected columns from the 
>Results Window? ( i.e. without first resetting the columns under
>the Options window).

You don't have to reset the counter to have the desired results be
available for retrieval. You can have the macro SetOptions('Your desired
column')

try running the first macro, then go paste, run the second macro

Macro 'Copy Area results';
begin
   Measure;
   setOptions('Area');
   ShowResults;
   Copy;
end;

Macro 'Copy Mean results';
begin
   setOptions('Mean');
   ShowResults;
   Copy;
end;


Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu  Tue Jun 22 13:23:12 1993
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu (Brett A. Simon)
Subject: Problem with SetDensitySlice

I am new at macros, and can't seem to get this simple macro to work.  It is
supposed to density slice a group of open images.  The same macro works to
threshold all the open images, replacing SetDensitySlice() with
SetThreshold().  The SetDensitySlice() command works OK for a single image.
 What am I doing wrong?

macro 'density slice all [F10]'
Var
        i:integer
Begin
        for i:=1 to nPics do begin
        SelectPic(i)
        SetDensitySlice(83,216)
        end
end

Thanks!
_____
Brett Simon (bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu)
Dept. of Anesthesia and Critical Care Medicine
Johns Hopkins Hospital
(410) 614-1515


From Kardon-Randy@ophthalmology-po.ophth.uiowa.edu  Sat Jun 22 12:42:00 1993
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          on Tue Jun 22 18:45:00 1993
To: mvivino%helix.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu,
        Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Date: 22 Jun 93 18:42 CST
Subject: Software for volume render of non-aligned 3D pixel data?

          The best software for 3-D visualization that does an
          excellent job of interpolation and determination of missing
          points is, I believe Spyglass Transform 3.1.  Spyglass also
          sells a volume reconstruction program, Dicer that may also
          be of interest to you.

          Sincerely,
          Randy Kardon MD PhD
          Neuro-Ophthalmology Division
          University of Iowa Dept Ophthalmology
          Iowa City Iowa 52242

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed Jun 23 11:09:55 1993
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Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 11:09:55 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Problem with SetDensitySlice

>I am new at macros, and can't seem to get this simple macro to work.  It is
>supposed to density slice a group of open images.  The same macro works to
>threshold all the open images, replacing SetDensitySlice() with
>SetThreshold().  The SetDensitySlice() command works OK for a single image.
> What am I doing wrong?
>
>macro 'density slice all [F10]'
>Var
>        i:integer
>Begin
>        for i:=1 to nPics do begin
>        SelectPic(i)
>        SetDensitySlice(83,216)
>        end
>end

This macro doesn't work because, unlike thresholds, Image doesn't store the
density slice with the image. In other words, there is only one density
slice, but there is a threshold for each image. Also, unlike thresholds,
density slicing is turned off when you switch windows.  You can turn it
back on, however, by double clicking on the LUT tool. The differences
between density slicing and thresholding should become clearer if you play
with the following macros. 

macro 'Density Slice All'
Var
  i:integer
Begin
  for i:=1 to nPics do begin
  SelectPic(i);
  SetDensitySlice(i*50+50,i*50+100);
  end
end;


macro 'Threshold All'
Var
  i:integer
Begin
  for i:=1 to nPics do begin
  SelectPic(i);
  SetThreshold(i*50+50);
  end
end;


From glenmac@u.washington.edu  Wed Jun 23 03:59:54 1993
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Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 10:59:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glen Macdonald <glenmac@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Problem with SetDensitySlice
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
In-Reply-To: <9306222123.AA26691@pennsy.med.jhu.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05z.9306231052.A19217-c100000@carson.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I ran into the same problem and overcame it after discovering that Image
retains the previous density slice setting between images. at least when
sequentially capturing and measuring images or manually selecting image
windows.  To use  the macro below, I set the density slice based on an
initial image, then outline  a cell, or let it take the whole window, and
run the macro for each roi.  It turns off density slicing, measures total
area, then turns density slicing back on and measures the area of pixels
in the slice interval.  It doesn't matter if you have density slicing on
or off when running the macro.  

Hope this helps.
-Glen


macro 'Area Fraction of Density Slice [M]';
{Measures Whole cell and density sliced area,
stores them into the Area and Major Axis columns and puts the decimal
fraction of area in the density into the Minor Axis column.}
var
  i,n:integer;
  CellArea:real; {temp variable to hold results between 			Measurements}
  AreaFrxn:real; {this variable defines the fraction of area in the 	
density slice}
	
begin 
  SetOptions('Area,Major,Minor');
  SetPrecision(3);
  SetMajorLabel('Slice Area');
  SetMinorLabel('Frxn Area');	
  SetDensitySlice(0,0);{turn density slice off for total cell outline 	area}
  measure;{put total cell area into rArea[rCount]}
  CellArea:=rArea[rCount];{save this area value as the variable           
    CellArea}
  SetDensitySlice(255,255); {regain density slice} 
  SetCounter(rCount-1);{set counter back because doing two        
    measurements for single cell}
  measure;  {put this density sliced area into rArea[rCount]}
  rMajor[rCount ]:=rArea[rCount ];  {put the density sliced area in    
rMajor column}
  rMinor[rCount]:=rArea[rCount]/CellArea;
  rArea[rCount ]:=CellArea;{move the total area to correct location}
  updateResults; {write everything to the Measurement box}
  SetDensitySlice(0,0); {return to greyscaleto allow accurate encircling 
next cell}
  DrawBoundary;{leave a permanent outline of areas measured, but 	
deletes pixels in the line from repeated measurements, 		changing
subsequent values}
end;  


On Tue, 22 Jun 1993, Brett A. Simon wrote:

> I am new at macros, and can't seem to get this simple macro to work.  It is
> supposed to density slice a group of open images.  The same macro works to
> threshold all the open images, replacing SetDensitySlice() with
> SetThreshold().  The SetDensitySlice() command works OK for a single image.
>  What am I doing wrong?
> 
> macro 'density slice all [F10]'
> Var
>         i:integer
> Begin
>         for i:=1 to nPics do begin
>         SelectPic(i)
>         SetDensitySlice(83,216)
>         end
> end
> 
> Thanks!
> _____
> Brett Simon (bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu)
> Dept. of Anesthesia and Critical Care Medicine
> Johns Hopkins Hospital
> (410) 614-1515
> 
> 




From CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu  Wed Jun 23 08:41:00 1993
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Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 13:41 CDT
From: Charles Thomas <CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: Halp!
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu",CHARLEST

This may be a silly question, but the answer is eluding me.
I have two confocal microscope images, one from the Rhodamine channel, one from
the Fluorescein channel.  I have made a look up table that runs from black to
bright red in the intensity 0-128 and runs from black to bright green in the
intensity range 129-255.  I took the rhodamine image and divided all the values
by 2 and took the Fluorescein image and divided all the values by 2 and added
128.  So... we have a nice red image with intensity values from 0-128 and a nice
green image with values from 129-255.  What I'd like to do is simply add them
together to make a new image displaying both simultaneously, but the paste
control using AND doesn't seem to be doing the trick.  Any suggestions?
 
Thanks.
 
Charles Thomas
Integrated Microscopy Resource.
 
PS.  I'm sure we could do this with Photoshop, but I want to try to do as much
image proc. around here with Image. :)
 

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed Jun 23 15:13:30 1993
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Message-Id: <9306231927.AA08467@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 15:13:30 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Composite color images

>This may be a silly question, but the answer is eluding me.
>I have two confocal microscope images, one from the Rhodamine channel, one from
>the Fluorescein channel.  I have made a look up table that runs from black to
>bright red in the intensity 0-128 and runs from black to bright green in the
>intensity range 129-255.  I took the rhodamine image and divided all the values
>by 2 and took the Fluorescein image and divided all the values by 2 and added
>128.  So... we have a nice red image with intensity values from 0-128 and a nice
>green image with values from 129-255.  What I'd like to do is simply add them
>together to make a new image displaying both simultaneously, but the paste
>control using AND doesn't seem to be doing the trick.  Any suggestions?
> 
>Thanks.
> 
>Charles Thomas
>Integrated Microscopy Resource.
> 
>PS.  I'm sure we could do this with Photoshop, but I want to try to do as much
>image proc. around here with Image. :)

You do this in Image essentially the same way you would in Photoshop.
Create a three slice stack consiting of the Rhodamine image, the
Fluorescein image and one blank(white) slice. Then invert all three slices
and use the RGB to 8-bit Color command to create a composite color image. I
expect to eliminate the need to invert the slices in a future version of
Image

--wayne


From shaque@physci.ucla.edu  Sun Jun 23 08:27:19 1993
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Date: 23 Jun 1993 16:27:19 -0800
From: "Samir Haque" <shaque@physci.ucla.edu>
Subject: -RE-  Image Users at UCLA--
To: "NIH-Image" <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

    
    RE:  Image Users at UCLA
    
    We are about to convert to Image for our image processing.  Before
    that can happen I need to demonstrate the software to my prof.  so I
    need to know if anyone on campus who uses Image would be kind enough
    to show us the ropes....we really are despar#001#ate to change over as our
    current IP sytem is dead.
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Samir Haque
    Dept. of Physiological Science
    (310) 825-2248


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Wed Jun 23 16:23:45 1993
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 23 Jun 1993 21:23:47 EDT
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 21:23:45 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: Multicolor images (Re: Halp!)
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GZQD9NMVKY0002O7@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>
X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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>This may be a silly question, but the answer is eluding me.

Image has only 8 bits per pixel, ever.  To display two colors, you
have to go to 4 bits for each color.  Instead of scaling the two
to 7 bits each, (0 to 127 or 128 to 255), you must scale them both
to 0 to 15.  Then multiply one by 16 and add the two images.
Then you need a lut, which is easily made using the lut arrays
(named red[i] etc I think), but remember you can't change white and black.
for i := 1 to 255 do begin
   red[i] := i div 16;
   green[i] := i mod 16;
   blue[i] := 0;
end;

Not tested, getting it to work is an exercise for the reader...
Please post a working solution.
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu Jun 24 12:27:10 1993
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	id AA09349; Thu, 24 Jun 93 12:41:34 -0400
Message-Id: <9306241641.AA09349@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 12:27:10 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Multicolor images (Re: Halp!)

Here are two macros for displaying two images as a red and green composite.
The first creates a 24-bit image(with the blue slice blank) and converts it
to 8-bit composite color using the RGB to 8-bit Color command. The second
scales both image to 0-16, multiplies the second by 16, combines the two by
ORing them, and then generates a custom LUT to display the composite image.

--wayne


macro 'RGB Color Merge';
{
Merges a "red" image and a "green" image to
create a composite color image by creating a
temporary 24-bit image and converted to 8-bits.
}
var
  i,w1,w2,h1,h2,rgb:integer;
begin
  SaveState;
  if nPics<>2 then begin
    PutMessage('This macro operates on exactly two images.');
    exit;
  end;
  SelectPic(1);
  GetPicSize(w1,h1);
  SelectPic(2);
  GetPicSize(w2,h2);
  if (w1<>w2) or (h1<>h2) then begin
    PutMessage('The two images must have the same width and height.');
    exit;
  end;
  SetNewSize(w1,h2);
  SetBackground(255);
  MakeNewStack('RGB');
  AddSlice;
  AddSlice;
  rgb:=PicNumber;
  SelectPic(1);
  SelectAll;
  Copy;
  SelectPic(rgb);
  SelectSlice(1);
  Paste;
  Invert;
  SelectPic(2);
  SelectAll;
  Copy;
  SelectPic(rgb);
  SelectSlice(2);
  Paste;
  Invert;
  RGBToIndexed('Custom');
  SelectPic(rgb);
  Dispose;
  RestoreState;
end;


macro 'LUT Color Merge';
{
Merges a "red" image and a "green" image to create a
composite color image. Both images are scaled to 0-15,
the second is multiplied by 16 and the two images are
ORed and displayed using a custom red-green LUT.
}
var
  i,w1,w2,h1,h2,merged:integer;
begin
  SaveState;
  if nPics<>2 then begin
    PutMessage('This macro operates on exactly two images.');
    exit;
  end;
  SelectPic(1);
  GetPicSize(w1,h1);
  SelectPic(2);
  GetPicSize(w2,h2);
  if (w1<>w2) or (h1<>h2) then begin
    PutMessage('The two images must have the same width and height.');
    exit;
  end;
  SetNewSize(w1,h2);
  MakeNewWindow('Merged');
  merged:=PicNumber;
  SelectPic(1);
  SelectAll;
  Copy;
  SelectPic(merged);
  Paste;
  SelectAll;
  MultiplyByConstant(1/16);
  ChangeValues(0,0,1);
  ChangeValues(16,16,15);
  SelectPic(2);
  SelectAll;
  Duplicate('Temp');
  MultiplyByConstant(1/16);
  ChangeValues(16,16,15);
  MultiplyByConstant(16);
  ChangeValues(0,0,1);
  SelectAll;
  Copy;
  SelectPic(merged);
  Paste;
  DoOr;
  for i:=0 to 255 do begin
     RedLut[i]:=(i mod 16)*16;
     GreenLut[i]:=(i div 16)*16;
     BlueLut[i]:=0;
   end;
  UpdateLut;
  SelectPic(nPics);
  Dispose;  {Temp}
  RestoreState;
end;


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Thu Jun 24 09:50:02 1993
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 13:50:02 -0400
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To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: PowerPC ad in WSJ

Anyone interested in the power pc chip might check out today's 10 page ad
in the wall street journal. Impressive ad, must have cost a fortune.


Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu  Thu Jun 24 09:29:00 1993
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 14:29 CDT
From: Charles Thomas <CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: Thanks and Halp again.
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu",CHARLEST

Wayne and everyone,
 
	Thanks for your prompt help on my Image question regarding the merging
of two images to form a red/green composite.
	When I try to run the macro I get the message:
		Undefined identifier in line 43.  <<rbgtoindexed>> ('Custom');
 
	Any suggestions?
 
 

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Thu Jun 24 14:57:05 1993
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Message-Id: <9306241911.AA09668@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 14:57:05 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Thanks and Halp again.

>Wayne and everyone,
> 
>	Thanks for your prompt help on my Image question regarding the merging
>of two images to form a red/green composite.
>	When I try to run the macro I get the message:
>		Undefined identifier in line 43.  <<rbgtoindexed>> ('Custom');

The RGBToIndexed macro command was added in V1.50. I forgot to put
"Requires(1.50)" at the beginning of the macro.

--wayne


From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Thu Jun 24 20:44:10 1993
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Date:    Thu, 24 Jun 93 20:44:10 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930624204410.2880af24@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: RE: PowerPC ad in WSJ
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

Mark, 
	I'm impressed that you follow the WSJ! Please tell us the contents
of the ad.
			Many thanks, Hkarten

From cls7@cornell.edu  Thu Jun 24 17:59:34 1993
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 21:59:34 -0400
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: cls7@cornell.edu (Carl Schofield)
X-Sender: cls7@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu
Subject: Image 1.50b75/QuickImage 24

The QuickImage 24 plug-in module for Adobe Photoshop also works just fine
with Image v.1.50b75.  Possible to utilize frame averaging or summation to
improve image quality with this frame grabber?


From jolyar@cumc.cornell.edu  Thu Jun 24 21:04:25 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 01:04:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Olyarchuk <jolyar@cumc.cornell.edu>
Sender: John Olyarchuk <jolyar@cumc.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: John Olyarchuk <jolyar@cumc.cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: PowerPC ad in WSJ
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On Thu, 24 Jun 1993, Harvey Karten wrote:

> Mark, 
> 	I'm impressed that you follow the WSJ! Please tell us the contents
> of the ad.
> 			Many thanks, Hkarten
> 


While we are discussing press events, did anyone see the review of Image
in this months Macworld?  Actually, the article refers to ProVision II
which is a modified version of Image that is packaged with the CD
collection Amazing Universe 2.1. Credit is given to Wayne, although Image
is refered to as Images(sic). Included among the commentary in the review
is..."ProVision is in most respects a more powerful image-modification
program than Adobe Photoshop" ..."As a piece of commercial software with
proper documentation, ProVision would sell for about $695...
Incidently, the CD lists for $79.95.
BTW, has anyone tried using Kai's Power Tools plug-ins with Image?  Do they
work? Are they useful? Are they fun?

-John G. Olyarchuk
 Cornell University Medical College




From r.m.ward@bham.ac.uk  Fri Jun 25 11:41:32 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 11:41:32 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: r.m.ward@bham.ac.uk (Mark Ward)
X-Sender: r.m.ward@diana.met.bham.ac.uk
Subject: kingfisher video board plug-in

Dear all,
      Image1.50b75 also works fine with the Kingfisher frame-grabber from
Graphics Unlimited, Cambridge, UK, via the photoshop plug-in supplied.
p.s. I'm new to this group, so if someone's already said this, my apologies..!


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Fri Jun 25 01:55:04 1993
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 (PMDF V4.2-13 #2884) id <01GZSBIB2TPC0006T1@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Fri,
 25 Jun 1993 06:55:04 EDT
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 06:55:04 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: How about officially renaming Image to NIHImage?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GZSBIBB4OY0006T1@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>
X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

People who are several 9600 baud or slower links away from zippy try to use
archie servers to search for a nearby FTP site to obtain software. 
Searching for Image this way is literally impossible, because there are so
many irrelevant instances of the string "image" in the archie database. 
Officially changing the file name to NIHImage1.50.sit.hqx would make it
possible to use archie to find it.  Also there is the conflict with
NCSAImage...
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From ptr@GRECO2.POLYTECHNIQUE.FR  Fri Jun 25 15:09:47 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 13:09:47 +0200
Message-Id: <9306251109.AA05064@greco2.noname>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: ptr@GRECO2.POLYTECHNIQUE.FR (Peter Goedtkindt)
Subject: Re: kingfisher video board plug-in

>Dear all,
>      Image1.50b75 also works fine with the Kingfisher frame-grabber from
>Graphics Unlimited, Cambridge, UK, via the photoshop plug-in supplied.
>p.s. I'm new to this group, so if someone's already said this, my apologies..!

What a coincidence,
I was just planning to write the same: The sales women just left the
laboratory, taking the demo card with her back.
A remark:
*The external trigger is not availiable in the plug-in, but it exists in
the kingfisher application.

I still have some unsolved  questions:

* how accurate is the external trigger. we need to capture the frame (only
one) in which the external trigger signal falls to ground (and not the next
one). The trigger signal needs to be 250 ms long, as stated in the manual,
and this makes me think there in a possible problem.

*We want to capture three signals, coming from synchronised b/w cameras,
using the same trigger signal. I've taken some test images and the card
takes the three images in parallel (this is perfect). But I also noticed
that the color separation was far from perfect: suppose the camera
connected to the red input is in the dark, and the green has an intense
image, then the red image will have a ghost copy from the green input.
Since I only could test the card for a limited time, it would be
interesting if someone else could complete this information.
TIA
Peter Goedtkindt
Universite Paris-Sud 
Laboratoire de Spectroscopie Atomique et Ionique
bat350 
Centre D'Orsay F-91405 Orsay Cedex. France 
Fax.:++33.1.69.41.94.60 - Tel 69.41.77.10
------
And
------
Ecole Polytechnique, Laboratoire d'Utilisation de Lasers Intenses
tel. 69.33.48.95
-----------------------------------------------------------------


From ptr@GRECO2.POLYTECHNIQUE.FR  Fri Jun 25 15:14:35 1993
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: ptr@GRECO2.POLYTECHNIQUE.FR (Peter Goedtkindt)
Subject: Re:renaming Image to NIHImage?

 
>Officially changing the file name to NIHImage1.50.sit.hqx would make it
>possible to use archie to find it.  Also there is the conflict with
>NCSAImage...
>--
>Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465

I agree completely,  WayneImage wouldn't be bad either....
Peter Goedtkindt
Universite Paris-Sud 
Laboratoire de Spectroscopie Atomique et Ionique
bat350 
Centre D'Orsay F-91405 Orsay Cedex. France 
Fax.:++33.1.69.41.94.60 - Tel 69.41.77.10
------
And
------
Ecole Polytechnique, Laboratoire d'Utilisation de Lasers Intenses
tel. 69.33.48.95
-----------------------------------------------------------------


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Fri Jun 25 04:20:28 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 08:20:28 -0400
Message-Id: <9306251220.AA03069@helix.nih.gov>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: RE: PowerPC ad in WSJ

 
>        I'm impressed that you follow the WSJ! Please tell us the contents
>of the ad.

Lots of blank space. Pictures of the IC. Lots of big statements of Apple
and IBM both being behind the chip. Mentions of the distant Taligent and
other OS'es which can use the PowerPC. And of course, the much too much
expected comparisons to the Pentium chip. 

I think I even saw ads for this ad somewhere last week.


Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From morgan@rock.concert.net  Fri Jun 25 04:36:49 1993
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X-Disclaimer-2:     Opinions expressed are not necessarily
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Subject: Re: How about officially renaming Image to NIHImage?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 8:36:49 EDT
In-Reply-To: <01GZSBIBB4OY0006T1@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; from "Edward J. Huff" at Jun 25, 93 5:59 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

If you tell archie to look for Image150 or 1.50 you won't get all
the false leads. I'm not sure if archie reads the dot. Morgan Ryan


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Fri Jun 25 05:04:47 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 09:04:47 -0400
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To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Extra possibility for the text window?

Here is a suggestion for the text window. Ah, this is not asking for a
complete editor like microsoft word, but actually something useful to a
macro writer. I'd like to have the line number visible to the left of the
line, or I'd like a goto line number statement to be entered somehow.

For example: you enter gotoline(300) and the code starts at the window text
buffer[0] counting the CR characters. When it reaches the 300th CR the text
is scrolled to this point and the cursor is placed down at this point.

Nice idea I suppose, but it would be better if I were offering the code
that did this.


Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jun 25 08:49:38 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 08:49:38 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: How about officially renaming Image to NIHImage?

>People who are several 9600 baud or slower links away from zippy try to use
>archie servers to search for a nearby FTP site to obtain software. 
>Searching for Image this way is literally impossible, because there are so
>many irrelevant instances of the string "image" in the archie database. 
>Officially changing the file name to NIHImage1.50.sit.hqx would make it
>possible to use archie to find it.  Also there is the conflict with
>NCSAImage...

Sounds like a good idea to me. I have changed all instances of the string
"image" to "nih-image" on Zippy.

--wayne


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Fri Jun 25 05:06:05 1993
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 25 Jun 1993 10:06:07 EDT
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 10:06:05 -0500
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
Subject: RE: How about officially renaming Image to NIHImage?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01GZSI74ZUO200018B@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>
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>Sounds like a good idea to me. I have changed all instances of the string
>"image" to "nih-image" on Zippy.

Thanks, but I think you better put some symbolic links in for the old
directory names.  I just looked with Fetch, and got "/pub/image" does not
exist.

Having just become a Unix hacker (khoros is almost running on our Sparc10
with Solaris 2.2), thats "ln -s /pub/nih-image /pub" to make /pub/image
continue to work.  Or is it the other way?  You can't tell from the
turgid prose of "man ln"...  Just have to try it...
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jun 25 09:09:01 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 09:09:01 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Extra possibility for the text window?

>Here is a suggestion for the text window. Ah, this is not asking for a
>complete editor like microsoft word, but actually something useful to a
>macro writer. I'd like to have the line number visible to the left of the
>line, or I'd like a goto line number statement to be entered somehow.
>
>For example: you enter gotoline(300) and the code starts at the window text
>buffer[0] counting the CR characters. When it reaches the 300th CR the text
>is scrolled to this point and the cursor is placed down at this point.
>
>Nice idea I suppose, but it would be better if I were offering the code
>that did this.

I will consider some sort of goto <line number> option when I get around to
working on a text Find command. It would also be nice to have an Undo for
text changes and to have text windows listed in the Windows menu.

--wayne


From steven@cell.BIH.Harvard.Edu  Fri Jun 25 06:26:27 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 10:26:27 EDT
From: steven@cell.BIH.Harvard.Edu (Steven Blechner)
Message-Id: <9306251426.AA02177@cell.bih.harvard.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Serial port problems...

I have a problem with controlling a Ludl Electronics controller
(for shutter control and filter wheel positions, etc.).

1.  If I run Image, open the serial port with a macro, and try to
send anything accross the serial line, I crash the system and
must reboot...
2.  If I first open White Knight (communications program) and then 
open image, I can do whatever I want over the serial line...

I checked the settings for White Knight versus the settings
for my macro serial call, and they are identical...
Has anyone else had problems controlling things via a serial
port from within Image ?
-steve

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jun 25 09:32:41 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 09:32:41 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: RE: How about officially renaming Image to NIHImage?

>Thanks, but I think you better put some symbolic links in for the old
>directory names.  I just looked with Fetch, and got "/pub/image" does not
>exist.
>
>Having just become a Unix hacker (khoros is almost running on our Sparc10
>with Solaris 2.2), thats "ln -s /pub/nih-image /pub" to make /pub/image
>continue to work.  Or is it the other way?  You can't tell from the
>turgid prose of "man ln"...  Just have to try it...


I used the command "ln -s nih-image image"  to create an alias named image
that points to the directory nih-image. Having to use cryptic UNIX commands
such as this one makes you appreciate the Macintosh.

--wayne


From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Fri Jun 25 05:18:45 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 10:18:45 CDT
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9306251518.AA15947@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: RE: How about officially renaming Image to NIHImage?
In-Reply-To: Wayne Rasband's message <9306251347.AA10704@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> of 25 June 1993
References: <9306251347.AA10704@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>

Wayne Rasband <wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> writes on 25 June 1993 at 09:31:41 -0500

 > >Having just become a Unix hacker (khoros is almost running on our Sparc10
 > >with Solaris 2.2), thats "ln -s /pub/nih-image /pub" to make /pub/image
 > >continue to work.  Or is it the other way?  You can't tell from the
 > >turgid prose of "man ln"...  Just have to try it...
 > 
 > I used the command "ln -s nih-image image"  to create an alias named image
 > that points to the directory nih-image. Having to use cryptic UNIX commands
 > such as this one makes you appreciate the Macintosh.

*Ahem*  (Clears throat politely, takes a deep breath, and decides *not*
to don the asbestos overcoat  :-)

Might I suggest that bashing Unix in a mailing list which is *run* on
Unix might be akin to biting the hand...  :-)

I *will not* start an OS flamefest, I *will not* start an OS
flamefest, I *will not* start an OS flamefest, I *will not* start an
OS flamefest, I *will not* start an OS flamefest...

    -jml     NIH-Image mailing list administrator


From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Fri Jun 25 17:00:21 1993
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Date:    Fri, 25 Jun 93 17:00:21 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930625170021.28812e1c@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: Re: How about officially renaming Image to NIHImage?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

I preferred the name Wayne_Image or Rasband_Image. It reflects our 
communal gratitude to you. 
			many thanks, as always
				Harvey

From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Fri Jun 25 09:11:08 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 13:11:08 -0400
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To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Re: How about officially renaming Image to NIHImage?

I'm surprised nobody has suggested "MacImage".

NIHImage as a name brings lots of thanks from the public to NIH, so helps
us justify tax dollars.....


Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From GLIKSMAN@uncvx1.oit.unc.edu  Fri Jun 25 08:22:26 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 13:22:26 -0500 (EST)
From: GLIKSMAN@uncvx1.oit.unc.edu
Subject: Re: How about officially renaming Image to NIHImage?
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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How about ending this subject and talking about the program, its applications 
or other useful subjects.

-Neal Gliksman

From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU  Fri Jun 25 03:38:38 1993
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 10:38:38 PDT
From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien)
Message-Id: <9306251738.AA10681@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Neotech Image Grabber Photoshop plug-in

Since we're on this subject, I tried the Photoshop plug-in for the Neotech
Image Grabber board that we have with Image v1.50b52, it seems to work fine.

This plug-in provides support for live-preview, single-frame grabs, averaged
grabs (using the Mac for averaging, there's only one frame of on-board
memory), and automatic exposure control. Also live preview. Unfortunately,
it doesn't support external triggers or manual gain/black level control,
two of the main reasons that I bought that board.

I've had good results with it for almost two years, using Quickeys to switch
back and forth between Image and the Image Grabber's own  application, but
I'm about to buy the Scion LG-3. For those wondering about choices of boards,
I have three main reasons: 1) the Scion can be controlled directly from
NIH-Image, 2) the Scion's digital and analog outputs will be perfect for
controlling a Uniblitz shutter (I've been using a little Tandy 102 portable
up until now), and 3) the Scion will allow me to take several frames at
video rates and average them. We make time-lapse movies of fluorescently-
labelled growing axons, and need to minimize exposure times. Currently I
use 80 ms flashes and just grab one video frame during that flash; I expect
that lengthening the flash to perhaps 120 ms and grabbing four frames during
that time will significantly improve the images.

Chi-Bin Chien

PS--Having just read the name-change messages within the last ten minutes,
    I feel justified in using up a few baud-seconds of bandwidth to say
	that it's a good idea, especially to avoid confusion with NCSA Image.

From herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu  Fri Jun 25 08:12:59 1993
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From: "Mike Herron" <herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu>
Reply-To: "Mike Herron" <herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re: Neotech Image Grabber Photoshop plug-in
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 13:12:59 -0500

In message <9306251738.AA10681@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>  writes:
> 2) the Scion's digital and analog outputs will be perfect for
> controlling a Uniblitz shutter (I've been using a little Tandy 102 portable
> up until now)

Could you tell me the distributor and or phone for the Uniblitz shutter?

UNIBLITZ <--great name  :^)



From ac24@cornell.edu  Fri Jun 25 11:03:20 1993
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Message-Id: <199306251855.AA13391@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 15:03:20 -0400
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: ac24@cornell.edu (Ary Correa)
X-Sender: ac24@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Neotech Image Grabber Photoshop plug-in

>In message <9306251738.AA10681@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>  writes:
>> 2) the Scion's digital and analog outputs will be perfect for
>> controlling a Uniblitz shutter (I've been using a little Tandy 102 portable
>> up until now)
>
>Could you tell me the distributor and or phone for the Uniblitz shutter?
>
>UNIBLITZ <--great name  :^)
 
You may call Vincent Associates
1255 University Avenue - Rochester, N.Y. 14607
(716)4732232
(800)8286972


From set@eru.mt.luth.se  Mon Jun 28 18:45:20 1993
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Message-Id: <199306281545.AA04316@eru.mt.luth.se>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 17:45:20 +0100
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg)
Subject: Re: Radius Rocket 33
X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable

>We looked closely at the Rocket, and ended up not being able to keep
>it working.  Radius makes excellent products and has some of the best
>technical support practices and people in the industry, but the Rocket
>is not entirely stable and probably never will be.  Much of the nominal
>speed advantage is lost in practice to bus arbitration, even though the
>Rocket uses block mode transfers; mysterious crashes kept crashing the
>IIcx we tried to accelerate, which the Rocket's principal engineer
>attributed to "errors in Apple's 32-bit compatibility code."  

I do have a MacII and are using a DOVE low cost accelerator chip with no
problem since 1 year. It's a 33MHz 68030 card to replace the std 68020
chip.
The adress are 
        Dove Computer Corporation
        1200 North 23rd street
        Wilmington NC ,28405 
        (919) 763 7918
Sven-Erik Tiberg 
Div. of energy / mashineenginnering 
Lulea University of Technology
Lulea Sweden
email set@eru.mt.luth.se
Fax. S-(0)920-91047
Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638



From set@eru.mt.luth.se  Mon Jun 28 18:51:00 1993
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Message-Id: <199306281550.AA04529@eru.mt.luth.se>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 17:51:00 +0100
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg)
Subject: Re: call for help
X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable

>This is an inquiry and call for help:
>
>We have a Scion LG-3 frame grabber board with 16 MB of video RAM.
>
>We need to capture several (approx. 30) frames at video rate and
>subsequently transfer the frames to a stack (without averaging).  Start and
>stop capturing commands should be two different macro commands.  The stop
>command should include the transfer of all the frames in the LG-3 video RAM
>to a stack in the computer RAM.
>
>Also, during the video rate capturing the settings of the two Digital to
>Analog converters on the LG-3 (Scion[1] and Scion [2]) need to be changed
>independently, without affecting the video rate capture.
>
>Has anyone implemented such macro functions (or similar ones)?
>Who else is interested in such macro functions?
>Wayne, would you consider implementing these functions?
>-------------
>Guang Mei   gmei@hoh.mbl.edu     Tel:(508)548-3705 ext 374
>Program of Architectural Dynamics in Living Cells
>Marine Biological Laboratory, Woods Hole, MA 02543-1031

We do have the same problem, and do urgently need it before oct. In case
nobody else has done it or will do so in the near future we will do it.
Sven-Erik Tiberg 
Div. of energy / mashineenginnering 
Lulea University of Technology
Lulea Sweden
email set@eru.mt.luth.se
Fax. S-(0)920-91047
Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638



From grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU  Mon Jun 28 04:07:37 1993
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From: grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU (Gerald Cunha)
Message-Id: <9306281807.AA52201@itsa.ucsf.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Output Advice Needed



pow
Can someone out there give us some advice on printers/output?#
#
We are looking to upgrade our digital imaging/image analysis system.  At present #
we get fairly decent gray scale images on our monitor from our Dage MTI #
CCD72 camera using Image and Dapple's PrismView software.  The printed #
output from our LaserWriter+ is, or course, of much poorer quality from what we #
get on the screen.  Is there an affordable output alternative for the working #
laboratory?  The new 600 dpi printers are better, but still leave something to be #
desired.  Good quality output would be one more step away from having to deal #
with the mess and wait of conventional photography.#
#
Joel Brody#
Dept of Anatomy (0452)#
University of California#
SF, CA 94143#
email grcunha@itsa.ucsf.edu#



From Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu  Mon Jun 28 15:28:15 1993
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Date: 28 Jun 1993 14:26:13 U
From: "Carl Gustafson" <Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
Subject: Re: Output Advice Needed
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

        Reply to:   RE>Output Advice Needed
>Can someone out there give us some advice on printers/output?
>We are looking to upgrade our digital imaging/image analysis system.  At 
>present we get fairly decent gray scale images on our monitor from our 
>Dage MTI CCD72 camera using Image and Dapple's PrismView software.  
>The printed output from our LaserWriter+ is, or course, of much poorer 
>quality from what we get on the screen.  Is there an affordable output 
>alternative for the working laboratory?  The new 600 dpi printers are 
>better, but still leave something to be desired.  Good quality output 
>would be one more step away from having to deal with the mess and wait 
>of conventional photography.#

The solution to your problem would be a dye-sublimation printer. These printers
are capable of near-photographic quality output, in both color and gray scale.
The catch is that most of them are $10K+, and they are expensive to operate
(about $2 per page).

I don't have any information on specific printers handy, but perusing the
recent MacWEEK or MacUser issues should give you the info you need.

Carl Gustafson
Imaging and Computer Vision Center
Drexel University




From grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU  Mon Jun 28 15:19:35 1993
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From: grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU (Gerald Cunha)
Message-Id: <9306290519.AA22079@itsa.ucsf.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: More Output Advice

Thanks for the info on Dye-sublimation and 600dpi printers.  Since I asked
for help I received some propaganda on another possible alternative which
I wonder if anyone has any experience with.  Both Xante and LaserMaster have
a series of laser printers that they claim is upgradable to 1200x1200 dpi.
The printing sample sent by Xante is 960x960 and it really knocks your socks
off.  The LaserMaster person I spoke to over the phone claimed that theirs
could print 256 levels of gray.
I certainly want to take a test drive on their machines with some of our 'real
world' images, but I would like to know if anyone out there hastried one.  I'll
keep you all informed of what I see.

Joel Brody
Dept of Anatomy
U of Cal
SF, CA 94143-0452

From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu  Tue Jun 29 16:53:49 1993
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Date:    Tue, 29 Jun 93 16:53:49 GMT
From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten)
Message-Id: <930629165349.28a02b72@sds.sdsc.edu>
Subject: RE: More Output Advice
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"
X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH

Re: Xante and LaserMaster - 
Attn: Joel Brody
      What's the price on the Xante and LaserMaster. 
				Harvey Karten 
 Harvey J. Karten, M.D.
 Dept. of Neurosciences
 Univ.California San Diego
 La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
 EMail: Kartenh@sdsc.edu
 Phone: (619)-534-4938
 FAX: (619)-534-6602

From herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu  Tue Jun 29 08:29:45 1993
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From: "Mike Herron" <herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu>
Reply-To: "Mike Herron" <herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re: More Output Advice
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 13:29:45 -0500

In message <9306290519.AA22079@itsa.ucsf.EDU>  writes:
> Thanks for the info on Dye-sublimation and 600dpi printers.  Since I asked
> for help I received some propaganda on another possible alternative which
> I wonder if anyone has any experience with.  Both Xante and LaserMaster have
> a series of laser printers that they claim is upgradable to 1200x1200 dpi.
> The printing sample sent by Xante is 960x960 and it really knocks your socks
> off.  The LaserMaster person I spoke to over the phone claimed that theirs
> could print 256 levels of gray.
> I certainly want to take a test drive on their machines with some of our 
> 'real
> world' images, but I would like to know if anyone out there hastried one.  
> I'll
> keep you all informed of what I see.

I did some consulting work with a small print shop that had a Lasermaster 
1200dpi.  Lasermaster seemed like a good company and they were quite willing to 
help....but I did seem to find myself hassling with their drivers et al quite a 
bit.  I don't imagine that any other brand is any better though.  My only advice
is that you test their machine with _YOUR_ computer setup.

Also there are some much cheaper systems with smaller images (circa 3x5 inches) 
reviewed on a MacWeek about a month ago.  These units were continuous tone for 
aroun $3K I believe.



From grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU  Tue Jun 29 10:00:54 1993
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From: grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU (Gerald Cunha)
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To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Output Device Q&A



To: Harvey Karten

I don't have the price list for LaserMaster yet.  Xante's is as follows:
    960x960    $5495
    1200x1200  $6695  (48M RAM)
    1200x1200 $7895   (64M RAM)

Their number is 1-800-926-8839.

Joel Brody
grcunha@itsa.ucsf.edu

From gshiva@eng.umd.edu  Tue Jun 29 18:06:46 1993
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Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 22:06:46 -0400
From: Shivakumar Gopalakrishnan <gshiva@eng.umd.edu>
Message-Id: <199306300206.AA03275@filter.eng.umd.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Want more from the PLOT PROFILE

When I save the plot profile as a text file it saves the
pixel value. Can that be modified such that I can get the
X Y values of the plot profile ?
Please help.
Thanking you
G. Shivakumar

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed Jun 30 09:09:30 1993
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 09:09:30 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Want more from the PLOT PROFILE

>When I save the plot profile as a text file it saves the
>pixel value. Can that be modified such that I can get the
>X Y values of the plot profile ?
>Please help.

There are a couple of things you could do. One would be to compute the XY
coordinates based on the starting coordinates and on the fact that the
samples are spaced one pixel width apart(V1.49 or later). The other would
be to write a profile ploting macro that saved the XY coordenates in two of
the results arrays.

--wayne


From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU  Wed Jun 30 04:43:13 1993
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From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien)
Message-Id: <9306301843.AA22972@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: hardcopy

On the subject of grayscale hardcopy, I had beautiful results using a
Linotronic printer at the UCSD campus graphics facility. This is a 2400
dpi Postscript device, I just brought over a floppy with a Postscript
file made by Canvas, it cost $5-$10 per copy and looks like a photograph
(except with dust- or smudge-marks from the negative!). It was a little
slow, probably because of the mixture of bitmap and text objects, next
time I'd do it all in Photoshop for cleaner output. Many commercial
printshops have Linotronics, as well.

For color output, we're about to buy a confocal microscope and also need
to solve this problem...

Chi-Bin Chien
chien@jeeves

From crc@leicester.ac.uk  Thu Jul  1 05:41:32 1993
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From: "Dr C. Cane" <crc@leicester.ac.uk>
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Subject: VoxelView/Mac PICT files
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 11:44:41 BST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0 (LUT)]

I have a problem with importing PICT files generated by VoxelView/Mac into
Image - the LUT is always changed so the colours are wrong.  These PICTs will
open fine in Photoshop (with the right colours).  I need to import stacks
(rotation series) into Image so although I could process each frame through
Photoshop this is rather tedious.  Is these any way I could get round this?
Has anyone else any experience with VoxelView/Mac?

Chris Cane, Dept. of Biochemistry, University of Leicester, LEICESTER, LE17RH,
U.K. (crc@leicester.ac.uk)


From herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu  Thu Jul  1 02:24:52 1993
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From: "Mike Herron" <herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu>
Reply-To: "Mike Herron" <herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Photo CD
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 07:24:52 -0500

I am curious about the Photo CD processing by KODAK.  Is it possible to grab 
Photo CD images from a mac application and "squirt" them into NIH Image?

If this is possible...is it wise?  The images must be rather large, and I am 
wondering if the KODAK processing company might "improve" the images in some 
manner so as to make them inapppropriate for measurement.


Mike Herron,  Uof MN, Dept. of Deramatology
herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu


From Espen.Ore@hd.uib.no  Thu Jul  1 16:22:07 1993
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To: nih-image <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: Espen.Ore@hd.uib.no
Subject: Re: Photo CD
Message-Id: <"alf.uib.no.323:01.06.93.13.18.29"@uib.no>

>I am curious about the Photo CD processing by KODAK.  Is it possible to grab 
>Photo CD images from a mac application and "squirt" them into NIH Image?
>
With QuickTime and Photo CD extensions installed the images on a photo CD
appear as ordinary color (RGB) PICT-files to Mac-applications.

>If this is possible...is it wise?  The images must be rather large, and I am 
>wondering if the KODAK processing company might "improve" the images in some 
>manner so as to make them inapppropriate for measurement.
>
KODAK uses a proprietary (lossy) compression scheme.

Espen Ore
Norwegian Computing Centre for the Humanities
Espen.Ore@hd.uib.no


From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu  Thu Jul  1 08:36:38 1993
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Date: 1 Jul 1993 09:20:54 U
From: "John Mansfield" <John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Photo CD
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Reply_ RE>Photo CD
Reply 
from:
       John Mansfield
       North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory
       University of Michigan
       2455 Hayward
       Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143   Phone: (313)936-3352
       jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu
Yes it is, there is an Adobe Photoshop Plug-In from Kodak (I believe) that does
just that.  I have the Kodak PhotoCD Acquire Module v6.4.  I dont know if I can
give it away though, I will ask Kodak and if I can I will upload it to zippy,
otherwise you may have to buy it.  It came with a load of Kodak stuff we were
trying out.

--------------------------------------
Date: 7/1/93 8:27
To: John Mansfield
From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
I am curious about the Photo CD processing by KODAK.  Is it possible to grab 
Photo CD images from a mac application and "squirt" them into NIH Image?

If this is possible...is it wise?  The images must be rather large, and I am 
wondering if the KODAK processing company might "improve" the images in some 
manner so as to make them inapppropriate for measurement.


Mike Herron,  Uof MN, Dept. of Deramatology
herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu



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Subject: Photo CD





From glenmac@u.washington.edu  Thu Jul  1 10:24:15 1993
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From: Glen Macdonald <glenmac@u.washington.edu>
Sender: Glen Macdonald <glenmac@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Glen Macdonald <glenmac@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Circularity
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
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In-Reply-To: <9306222123.AA26691@pennsy.med.jhu.edu>
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What is the best way to computer the circularity of a cell?

Traditionally, our lab has always used the ratio of minor to major axes. 
However the Measurements Macro file that Wayne includes with Image
contains the following formula in a cirularity macro.  It was contributed
by someone who is nolonger around.  Any comments? 
 Given the first 2 factors, perhaps this equation is related to
sphericity. 

 rUser1[rCount]:=4*3.14159265*(rArea[rCount]/sqr(rLength[rCount])); 

Thanks.

-Glen



From pgould@uwovax.uwo.ca  Thu Jul  1 17:50:40 1993
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From: "P.V. GOULD" <pgould@uwovax.uwo.ca>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 21:50:40 EDT
Subject: Re: Photo CD
In-Reply-To: <199307011220.AA10569@nx1.soils.umn.edu> of Thu, 1 Jul 1993 
    07:25:10 -0500
Message-Id: <0741563440@uwovax.uwo.ca>

You can export PhotoCD images as TIFF files using Kodak PhotoCD Access, 
which costs about $45. You can also crop the image and just export the
result. I have made 8 bit greyscale TIFFs of the 1024 x 1536 resolution
format and opened them with Image; you just have to set the clipboard 
buffer to 1500K.

Peter Gould, UWO, Department of Pathology

From dittmer@fokus.uke.uni-hamburg.de  Thu Jul  1 19:23:28 1993
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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 17:23:28 +0200
From: dittmer@fokus.uke.uni-hamburg.de
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Two beginners questions ...
X-Vms-To: SMTP%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu"

Hi Imagers !

(This is my first posting, so please bear with me.)

Just starting to use NIHImage, I have two problems :

1) The Tool window shows not the tools shown in the
	documentation but rather scrambled pieces of
	black & white pixels. Highlighting the tools
	and balloon help work ok, as does using the
	tools. Is there something to be done ?

2) A PICT I'd like to open with NIHImage does always
	come up in b&w, though it's a colored PICT
	and displays ok in Canvas and Photoshop.
	Could there be something I have to adjust ?

Many thanks in advance for any help you can supply.

Greetings	Ulf Dittmer
		dittmer@uke.uni-hamburg.de

From reuber@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu  Fri Jul  2 04:56:10 1993
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Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:56:10 -0500
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: reuber@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu (Kent Reuber)
Subject: Re: Circularity

>What is the best way to computer the circularity of a cell?
>
>Traditionally, our lab has always used the ratio of minor to major axes. 
>However the Measurements Macro file that Wayne includes with Image
>contains the following formula in a cirularity macro.  It was contributed
>by someone who is nolonger around.  Any comments? 
> Given the first 2 factors, perhaps this equation is related to
>sphericity. 
>
> rUser1[rCount]:=4*3.14159265*(rArea[rCount]/sqr(rLength[rCount])); 
>

This formula derives from the ratio of the area of a circle to the square
of the perimerter:

    A/P^2 = Pi R^2/(4 Pi R^2) = 1/(4 Pi)

or 

    4 Pi A/P^2 = 1        (this ratio is 1 for a circle)

This ratio can be fairly small for complicated objects. For example, we
found that partially-healed circular wounds in eye tissue can have ratios
of 1/5 or 1/7 or less.

Kent Reuber, Computational Specialist
Biology Department, Brandeis University
reuber@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jul  2 08:54:42 1993
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Message-Id: <9307021309.AA27823@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 08:54:42 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Two beginners questions ...

>1) The Tool window shows not the tools shown in the
>	documentation but rather scrambled pieces of
>	black & white pixels. Highlighting the tools
>	and balloon help work ok, as does using the
>	tools. Is there something to be done ?

The scrambled tools problem is fixed in the 1.50b84 beta available by
anonymous ftp from  zippy.nimh.nih.gov.

>2) A PICT I'd like to open with NIHImage does always
>	come up in b&w, though it's a colored PICT
>	and displays ok in Canvas and Photoshop.
>	Could there be something I have to adjust ?

Could I get a copy of one of these troublesome PICT files? You can either
upload it to the contrib directory on zippy.nimh.nih.gov or email me a
binhexed version.

--wayne


From jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu  Fri Jul  2 05:01:58 1993
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Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1993 12:01:58 -0700 (MST)
From: jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (John Morrow)
Subject: Averaging Stacks
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <9307021901.AA09608@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu>
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Is there a command in the macro language that corresponds to the 'Average'
command in the 'Stacks' menu?

John Morrow
Image Processing for Teaching project
University of Arizona

From 00A0919@msgate.emis.hac.com  Fri Jul  2 21:49:38 1993
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Received: by DniMail (v1.0); Sat Jul  3 04:49:27 1993 PDT
To: IMAGE@hac2arpa.hac.com, BB@hac2arpa.hac.com
Subject: RE: Radius Rocket 33

From: Sumida, David S
Date: Fri, Jul 2, 1993 9:50 AM
Subject: RE: Radius Rocket 33
To: Image BB
>Before I upgrade my MacII with the Rocket33 Accelerator for use with image
>analysis I want to determine whether anyone has experience with this
>hardware and its compatibility.

This above message was put on the Image "bulletin board" several weeks ago but 
my reply somehow bounced, so I'm sending it again.

****************
 In partial answer to Robbie Burk's question:

As I mentioned earlier in another message to the Image server, I have upgraded 
my MacII with a Daystar Digital Universal PowerCache 030 running at 50 MHz and 
have found no incompatibility with software applications thusfar (i.e. Image,  
Word, Labview, etc).  I chose the Daystar over the Rocket33 because of strong 
recommendations from the computer technical staff here.  One of the advantages 
of the Daystar is that they offer upward compatibility/trade-ins with their 
newer Turbo 040 products as they become available for the different Mac 
platforms.  

David Sumida, PhD
00a0919@msgate.emis.hac.com


From RBLYSTON@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU  Sat Jul  3 09:59:19 1993
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Date:         Sat, 03 Jul 93 14:59:19 CDT
From: Robert Blystone <RBLYSTON@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU>
Subject:      MRI scans
To: nih-image group <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

Hello to all:  I am looking for MRI scans of rats.  I need to build a 3-D model
 of a rat and map temperature changes on the animal.  Can anyone out there
direct me to an MRI file of a whole rat.  Thanks.  Blystone in Texas

        R. Blystone  Biology  Trinity University  San Antonio
        RBLYSTON@Trinity.edu

**********************
ROBERT V. BLYSTONE                    PHONE:(210)736-7243
DEPARTMENT OF BIOLOGY                   FAX:(210)736-7229
Trinity University                   E-Mail:RBlyston@Trinity.edu
715 Stadium Drive
San Antonio, TX, 78212

From morilak@cmgm.stanford.edu  Mon Jul  5 05:23:10 1993
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 12:23:10 PDT
From: YOUR NAME HERE <morilak@cmgm.stanford.edu>
Subject: Rocket etc accelerators
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <MacMS.52654.16838.morilak@cmgm.stanford.edu>

This will be a very naive question, but in discussion of the Radius Rocket 33
and alternatives, are we talking about CPU upgrades, or is this strictly a
video accelerator? Is it a new CPU, or is it a plug-in board (as you might be
able to tell, my history is with PCs!)? Is a video accelerator advisable for
using Image? Thanks!

David Morilak
Dept Psychiatry
Stanford Univ
morilak@cmgm.stanford.edu
-------

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jul  6 08:58:14 1993
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Message-Id: <9307061312.AA01498@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Rocket etc accelerators
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 08:58:14 +0000

>This will be a very naive question, but in discussion of the Radius Rocket 33
>and alternatives, are we talking about CPU upgrades, or is this strictly a
>video accelerator? Is it a new CPU, or is it a plug-in board (as you might be
>able to tell, my history is with PCs!)? Is a video accelerator advisable for
>using Image? Thanks!

The Radius Rocket 33 is CPU upgrade the replaces the 68030 CPU in a Mac II
with a faster 68040 CPU. A video(QuickDraw) accelerator is probably a waste
of money if you primarily use NIH Image. Instead, to get the fastest
animation and scrolling, use the built-in video available an all recent
Macs. Built-in video avoids the "NuBus bottleneck" by providing a higher
speed path between the CPU and video memory(VRAM). The LC III supports up
to 16 inch monitors and the Centris 610, Centris 650 and all Quadras
support up to 21 inch monitors.

--wayne


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jul  6 08:58:16 1993
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Message-Id: <9307061312.AA01500@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 08:58:16 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Rocket etc accelerators

>This will be a very naive question, but in discussion of the Radius Rocket 33
>and alternatives, are we talking about CPU upgrades, or is this strictly a
>video accelerator? Is it a new CPU, or is it a plug-in board (as you might be
>able to tell, my history is with PCs!)? Is a video accelerator advisable for
>using Image? Thanks!

The Radius Rocket 33 is CPU upgrade the replaces the 68030 CPU in a Mac II
with a faster 68040 CPU. A video(QuickDraw) accelerator is probably a waste
of money if you primarily use NIH Image. Instead, to get the fastest
animation and scrolling, use the built-in video available an all recent
Macs. Built-in video avoids the "NuBus bottleneck" by providing a higher
speed path between the CPU and video memory(VRAM). The LC III supports up
to 16 inch monitors and the Centris 610, Centris 650 and all Quadras
support up to 21 inch monitors.

--wayne


From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Tue Jul  6 07:22:46 1993
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 11:22:46 -0400
Message-Id: <9307061522.AA24840@helix.nih.gov>
To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: SelectWindow('Title')

>From the change history:

22) A command("SelectWindow('Title')") was added to the macro language for
selecting windows my name.

Since this was talked about on the list about a month ago, I see that wayne
has added this command. Thanks wayne, that should make working with many
images in a macro easier. This because if we open and close multiple images
sometimes the image number changes and makes things difficult. Much better
now!




Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU  Tue Jul  6 14:04:20 1993
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 6 Jul 1993 19:04:22 EDT
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X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff)
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re: SelectWindow('Title')
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993 19:04:20 -0500
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>>From the change history:
>
>22) A command("SelectWindow('Title')") was added to the macro language for
>selecting windows my name.
>
>Since this was talked about on the list about a month ago, I see that wayne
>has added this command. Thanks wayne, that should make working with many
>images in a macro easier. This because if we open and close multiple images
>sometimes the image number changes and makes things difficult. Much better
>now!
>
>Mark Vivino
>NIH/DCRT
>mvivino@helix.nih.gov

This is not an optimum solution, since sometimes two windows have
the same name.  If you are trying to write bullet-proof macros,
this isn't quite good enough.  I discussed a change with Wayne
back then, but didn't see an answer to his objection toward confusing
users with another kind of window number.  I figured out an answer
in the meantime:  define a sticky picnumber function picSerial which
gives a serial number of the pic window.  The first pic window
opened has picSerial of say 65536 (or 100000 if you think that number
is "rounder") and selectPic will accept either kind of pic number.
The serial numbers are never reused, and never change even if pics
are disposed, so you can note the number at the beginning of a macro
and select it later without worrying if it is a different image.

Maybe there should also be a picExists function which works with
either picNumber or picSerial, returns true or false, so you can
check to see if the window is around and put up a useful dialog box
(or recreate the window) instead of just giving a macro error.

BTW are global macro variables documented?  I found out about them while
looking at the code.  When you use a macro global to note a pic number,
you REALLY have trouble with numbers changing.  It can happen if the
user closes the window you noted, or any older window.
--
Edward J. Huff   huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu   (212)998-8465
Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging
NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003


From cls7@cornell.edu  Tue Jul  6 15:19:58 1993
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 19:19:58 -0400
Message-Id: <199307062319.AA02846@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: cls7@cornell.edu (Carl Schofield)
X-Sender: cls7@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu
Subject: DEM Macro

I am looking for an Image macro that will import USGS DEM (Digital
Elevation Model) files, in a manner similar to the import text function
built into Image.  Please advise as to availability of such a macro.


From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com  Wed Jul  7 08:25:20 1993
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Date: 7 Jul 1993 09:28:17 U
From: "Norm Hurst" <norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com>
Subject: global macro vars?
To: "NIH Image user group" <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

global macro vars?                                        7/7/93
                                                                     9:21 AM
>>> BTW are global macro variables documented?  

Does this mean I can remember numbers and strings between macro invokations?

What's the syntax?

-Norm Hurst
David Sarnoff Research Center



From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed Jul  7 08:39:55 1993
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Message-Id: <9307071253.AA03313@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 08:39:55 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: global macro vars?

>global macro vars?                                        7/7/93
>                                                                     9:21 AM
>>>> BTW are global macro variables documented?  
>
>Does this mean I can remember numbers and strings between macro invokations?
>
>What's the syntax?

Global variables are listed at the beginning of the macro file. I have
attached an example macro file that uses global variables.

--wayne

-----------------------------------------
var
  gvar1,gvar2,gvar3:integer;
  gstring:string;

macro 'Macro 1 [1]';
begin
   gvar1:=GetNumber('gvar1:',gvar1)
end;

macro 'Macro 2 [2]';
begin
   gvar1:=GetNumber('gvar1:',gvar1)
end;




From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com  Wed Jul  7 09:42:50 1993
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Date: 7 Jul 1993 10:45:03 U
From: "Norm Hurst" <norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com>
Subject: Chroma "crosshatch" filter
To: "NIH Image user group" <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

Chroma "crosshatch" filter                                7/7/93
                                                                     10:28 AM
There's been some discussion about a crosshatch pattern that appears in images
digitized from composite color cameras.  Here is a set of convolution tap
weights that will notch out the color subcarrier. Put them in a text file and
use that file with the "Enhance/Convolve..." menu.

These tap weights assume that you are sampling at 4 times the frequency of the
color subcarrier (the crosshatch repeats every fourth sample horizontally).

     0     0     0     0     0
    -1     0     2     0    -1
     2     0    12     0     2
    -1     0     2     0    -1
     0     0     0     0     0

The above taps assume that you have grabbed a single NTSC "field" (1/60th of a
sec) and that the color crosshatch alternates polarity by lines. If you have a
pair of fields laced into a frame (the crosshatch alternates every OTHER line),
use these taps:

    -1     0     2     0    -1
     0     0     0     0     0
     2     0    12     0     2
     0     0     0     0     0
    -1     0     2     0    -1

Both of these filters remove some of the luminance info.

If your frame grabber samples at a rate other than 4 times subcarrier these
won't work so well.  If that's the case, let me know and I'll see if I can
help.

If you are using a PAL camera, you will need yet different taps.

Your best bet is to shut off the color from the camera, or use a b/w camera. 

-Norm Hurst
David Sarnoff Research Center



From gibbons@trix.genie.uottawa.ca  Wed Jul  7 07:40:10 1993
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Message-Id: <9307071540.AA18389@trix.genie.uottawa.ca>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: gibbons@trix.genie.uottawa.ca
Subject: 3D data

I am looking for 3D data of normal humans.  Anybody know where I can find
any files or CAT scans suitable for parsing.

David


From Kardon-Randy@ophthalmology-po.ophth.uiowa.edu  Sun Jul  7 08:05:00 1993
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          on Wed Jul 07 14:19:37 1993
To: gibbons%trix.genie.uottawa.ca@relay.tc.umn.edu,
        Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Date: 7 Jul 93 14:05 CST
Subject: 3D data

          In reply to your request for 3D data on humans, Dr Hanna
          Damasio, Dept Neurology, University of Iowa Hospital,Iowa
          City, Iowa (319-356-0450) is studying the 3D reconstruction
          of the human brain using voxel collected MRIs.  I would
          recommend contacting her.

          Yours truly,

          Randy Kardon MD PhD
          Neuro-ophthalmology Division
          Ophthalmology Dept
          Univ of Iowa Hospitals

From NJOHNSON@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  Sun Jul  7 11:37:25 1993
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Date: 07 Jul 1993 15:37:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: NJOHNSON@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: WANTEDD: CAT scan of mandible for NIH Image 1.43
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Message-Id: <01H09KV5ZFDK8ZFP6P@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
Organization: University at Buffalo
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I am working on a National Institutes of Health (NIH) grant on bone growth
and need two CAT scan series from the archives of a living child who has
grown a couple of years inbetween scans.  The CAT scans would be of a child's
mandible showing growth over a period of one to three years.  If the child
aged from 6 years old to 8 years old, that would be ideal, but other age
ranges would be very useful,too.  I will be analyzing the images in the
software program "NIH Image 1.43."  Any help on directing me towards a source
of such CAT scans would be greatly appreciated.

                                 Noreen Johnson
                                 njohnson@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu

From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Thu Jul  8 06:47:10 1993
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 10:47:10 -0400
Message-Id: <9307081447.AA29899@helix.nih.gov>
To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: new 'Find' command

>From change history:

26) A Find command was added to the Edit menu. It replaces Fill whenever a
text window is active. Type Option-Command-F to repeatedly search for the
same string

Pretty soon the macros will be just like think pascal!!!

Lets see, some day you could have macros creating pascal code resources,
and pascal creating and executing macros. Maybe that means a life form has
been created.

Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From cammer@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu  Thu Jul  8 13:57:20 1993
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Mime-Version: 1.0
From: Michael Cammer <cammer@aecom.yu.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Time lapse VRC query
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 17:57:20 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


We have been having difficulties digitizing single frames from a Panasonic
AG-6720 time lapse video recorder because the top of each frame is not
always in register with the frames before or after or because the
interlacing is not matched.

Does anybody know of a better time lapse VCR or other solution to this
problem for under $2500?

Thanks-
Michael cammer@aecom.yu.edu 



From SQUIDNEY@uncvx1.oit.unc.edu  Sun Jul 11 11:10:53 1993
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From: SQUIDNEY@uncvx1.oit.unc.edu
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Image Processing Texts
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 16:10:53 -0500 (EST)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

	Several weeks ago I asked this group for digital image processing texts which might bring a little depth to those of us who wish to learn more about the subject.  Below are the several texts most suggested by those on the NIH-Image 
mailing list and several additional references dealing more directly with microscopy applications.  I wish to thank all who answered my query and hope this is of some use to others in the field.

Inoue, S. 1986. Video Microscopy. Plenum Press.
Russ, JC. 1992. The Image Processing handbook. CRC Press.
Gonzalez, RC and RE Woods. 1992. Digital image processing.
	Addison-Wesley Publishing Company.
Russ, JC. 1990.  Computer-Assisted Microscopy.  Plenum Press, New York. 
Pratt, WK. 1978.  Digital Image Processing.  John Wiley & Sons.
Slayter, EM and Slayter, HS. 1992.  Light and Electron Microscopy.  Cambridge 	University Press.
Visualization in Biomedical Microscopies. 1992.  Ed. Kriete, A. VCH 	Publishers.
								Sidney L. Shaw
								UNC-Chapel Hill

From cyohn@scripps.edu  Mon Jul 12 07:21:51 1993
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 14:21:51 PDT
From: cyohn@scripps.edu (Christopher Yohn)
Message-Id: <9307122121.AA11098@terrapin.Scripps.EDU>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Application: DNA gels

I am setting up a system based on NIH-Image for some simple applications,
primarily DNA agarose gels.  I have encountered two problems and am 
seeking recommendations.

1)  I need a UV filter for the camera that will filter the light from
	the UV light box used to visualize the DNA.  Most standard
	photographic filters are not adequate.  Any suggestions will
	be appriciated.

2)  I've experienced inconsistent results when using the "Sum Frames"
	option under Average Frames... in the Special menu.  This is 
	often neccessary to visualize faint bands, and it seems to 
	work well, but only randomly about 30% of the time.  Other 
	times it seems to look no different than live capture mode.
	I haven't been able to determine why it works some of the time
	and not others.  Any ideas?  (Note: I'm using v1.47 which I
	obtained from Scion because I'm using their TV-3 card.  This is
	the only version I have which has the "Print Video" which
	accesses that card.)  

While I'm on the subject of the TV-3, are future versions of NIH-Image
going to include the Print Video option, or am I going to have to
rely on Scion to get updated versions?

Thanks for any info you can provide.
Chris Yohn 
cyohn@scripps.edu
The Scripps Research Institute


From SMASESM@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU  Tue Jul 13 03:39:21 1993
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Date:         Tue, 13 Jul 93 08:39:21 CDT
From: Mike Sesma <SMASESM@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: new 'Find' command
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 13 Jul 1993 07:10:59 -0500 from <mvivino%helix.nih
 .gov@relay.tc.umn.edu>

Which version of IMAGE has the new Find command or can I append the routine to
ver 1.49?  I am also having trouble with the Set Scale command under the
Analysis Menu.  If I double-click on the line tool the dialog refers to the
pixel width of the line.  If I use the line tool to trace a known distance then
bring up the Set Scale (e.g., measure 100 microns) the box for actual distance
and pixel distance do not reflect the actions of the line tool.  According to
the 1.49 documentation I am not doing anything wrong.  I have worked around
this problem but I would rather be able to set scale directly.  Any suggestions
or corrections to this procedure?  Thanks.
Mike Sesma
University of Missouri-St. Louis
School of Optometry
SMASESM @ UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
314-553-5995

From Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU  Sat Jul 13 05:52:38 1993
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Message-Id: <5966918@donner.Dartmouth.EDU>
Date: 13 Jul 93 09:52:38 EDT
From: Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU (Charles P. Daghlian)
Subject: undeliverable mail messages
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu

Would you please change your mail system so we stop getting the many
undeliverable mail messages. If this is not possible, please remove me from
the list.

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jul 13 09:52:07 1993
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 09:52:07 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Scion TV-3

>While I'm on the subject of the TV-3, are future versions of NIH-Image
>going to include the Print Video option, or am I going to have to
>rely on Scion to get updated versions?

Tod Weinberg of Scion is working on a Photoshop compatible export plug-in
for the TV-3 that will work with Image 1.50. For those not familiar with
it, the TV-3 is an RS-170 output board useful for getting quick hardcopy of
images using a video printer.

--wayne


From dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu  Tue Jul 13 05:15:09 1993
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From: Doug Morris <dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199307131515.AA01085@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Undeliverable Mail
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 10:15:09 -0500 (CDT)
In-Reply-To: <199307081949.AA01499@nx1.soils.umn.edu> from "SMTP@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be" at Jul 13, 93 07:13:48 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 79        

Please put a filter on listserv to avoid massed amounts of undeliverable mail.

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jul 13 10:19:09 1993
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Message-Id: <9307131433.AA13206@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 10:19:09 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: new 'Find' command

>Which version of IMAGE has the new Find command or can I append the routine to
>ver 1.49?

The Find command is in the 1.50b95 beta version available by anonymous FTP

From zippy.nimh.nih.gov.
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Date: 13 Jul 1993 11:17:33 U
From: "Carl Gustafson" <Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
Subject: Mailer Rejection Slips
To: " " <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

                       Subject:                               Time:11:13 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Mailer Rejection Slips                 Date:7/13/93
Lately, it seems that any time someone posts a message to the list, I get a ton
of rejection slips from various mail systems. These seem to come from the
Listserv. Since I haven't posted anything recently, and the rejections are from
other people's messages, I can't help but wonder if something has gone wrong
here. (Or is my mailer / am I brain-dead?)

Carl Gustafson
Puzzled in Philadelphia



From xuan@hpsrjtc.sr.hp.com  Tue Jul 13 01:51:02 1993
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From: Xiaohua Xuan <xuan@hpsrjtc.sr.hp.com>
Message-Id: <9307131551.AA05667@hpsrjtc.sr.hp.com>
Subject: Re: undeliverable mail messages
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu ()
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 8:51:02 PDT
In-Reply-To: <5966918@donner.Dartmouth.EDU>; from "Charles P. Daghlian" at Jul 13, 93 9:25 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

You mean that you get something back when listsev send me anything. Could 
you send me the whole message you got so that I figure out what is wrong. 
Thank you. 

--Xiaohua

From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu  Tue Jul 13 08:01:27 1993
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Date:     Tue, 13 Jul 93 12:01:27 EDT
From: "Herbert M. Geller" <geller@synapse.umdnj.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject:  Export Plug-Ins
Message-Id:  <9307131201.aa03051@synapse.umdnj.edu>

I have just ordered a Photoshop Plug-In for
my Kodak 7700 Printer.   Will this work with
Image?  

Herb Geller


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jul 13 11:30:15 1993
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Message-Id: <9307131544.AA13393@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 11:30:15 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Export Plug-Ins

>I have just ordered a Photoshop Plug-In for
>my Kodak 7700 Printer.   Will this work with
>Image?  

I haven't tried it, but it should work as long as it's not from Adobe.
Adobe designs their plug-ins so they only work with Photoshop. You should
use v1.50b96 or later of Image, which I will be uploading later today. It
fixes a bug I just found in the support for export plug-ins.

--wayne


From SMASESM@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU  Tue Jul 13 06:57:30 1993
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 Tue, 13 Jul 93 12:01:13 CDT
Date:         Tue, 13 Jul 93 11:57:30 CDT
From: Mike Sesma <SMASESM@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: new 'Find' command
To: Wayne <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 13 Jul 1993 09:17:35 -0500 from <SMASESM%UMSLVMA.U
 MSL.EDU@relay.tc.umn.edu>

Wayne, You were correct as usual, I had chosen the incorrect tool. It works
fine now.
On the issue of the new "find" command and ver 1.50bxx.  I was going to wait
until the'b'was removed from 1.5 before I downloaded the program.  Are there
other good reasons for using 1.50bx instead of 1.49 or can I continue to get by
without updating?
Thanks, Mike Sesma.

From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com  Tue Jul 13 10:53:35 1993
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 14:53:35 EDT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: crashes on image 1.49

I am having continuous crashes with the program Image 1.49 that 
happen even when I am not touching the computer keyboard or 
mouse. My technician reports the same problem. I appears to occur 
when I am at the microscope making adjustments in the light and/or 
focus. Perhaps a saturation occurs just before the crash. 
Occasionally crashes the entire system but more often is the Image 
application that quits with an error of the type 1. I am using Image 
on a Quadra 950 with Scion LG-3. The version 1.47 works 
flawlessly.

I have been reading about Image 1.50b and others. Does the b 
stand for beta?, if so, when could we expect a bug free Image 
1.50? is it "risky" to use 1.50b? should I wait to download the final 
version?

Could anybody out there discuss resolution with NIH-Image, how to
get publication quality photo prints, say via Photoshop or Persuasion?
Does any body know of somebody which would do this job at a reasonable
price?

Juan I. Sarmiento
Department of Toxicology and Pathology
Hoffmann-La Roche, INC.
340 Kingsland street
Nutley, NJ 07110
(201) 235 43 42
Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.COM

From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Tue Jul 13 09:02:12 1993
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	id AA08318; Tue, 13 Jul 93 14:02:12 CDT
Message-Id: <9307131902.AA08318@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
In-Reply-To: Charles P. Daghlian's message <5966918@donner.Dartmouth.EDU> of 13 July 1993
References: <5966918@donner.Dartmouth.EDU>
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: undeliverable mail messages
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 14:02:12 CDT

Charles P. Daghlian <Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU > writes on 13 July 1993 at 09:20:19 -0500
 > Would you please change your mail system so we stop getting the many
 > undeliverable mail messages. If this is not possible, please remove me from
 > the list.

I'm looking into it...


From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Tue Jul 13 09:02:55 1993
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Message-Id: <9307131902.AA08321@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
In-Reply-To: Doug Morris's message <199307131515.AA01085@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu> of 13 July 1993
References: <199307131515.AA01085@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu>
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Undeliverable Mail
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 14:02:55 CDT

Doug Morris <dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu> writes on 13 July 1993 at 10:12:01 -0500

 > Please put a filter on listserv to avoid massed amounts of
 > undeliverable mail.

... am working on it ...

From Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu  Tue Jul 13 15:57:35 1993
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Message-Id: <199307132057.AA17019@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Return-Receipt-To: "Sylwester Chyb" <Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu>
From: "Sylwester Chyb" <Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: video rate acquisition problem
Date: 13 Jul 1993 17:04:13 U

I am using Image 1.50b95 on Quadra 800 (24 MB RAM) with Scion LG-3 frame
grabber (16 MB expanded memory). I can average frames at video rate but when
making movie the highest rate I get is about 15 frames per second. I would be
grateful for any help from more experienced users.

Thanks,

Sylwester Chyb
Penn State University

From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Tue Jul 13 16:04:19 1993
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	id AA17084; Tue, 13 Jul 1993 16:02:55 -0500
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	id AA13968; Tue, 13 Jul 93 16:18:55 -0400
Message-Id: <9307132018.AA13968@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 16:04:19 +0000
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: crashes on image 1.49

>I am having continuous crashes with the program Image 1.49 that 
>happen even when I am not touching the computer keyboard or 
>mouse. My technician reports the same problem. I appears to occur 
>when I am at the microscope making adjustments in the light and/or 
>focus. Perhaps a saturation occurs just before the crash. 
>Occasionally crashes the entire system but more often is the Image 
>application that quits with an error of the type 1. I am using Image 
>on a Quadra 950 with Scion LG-3. The version 1.47 works 
>flawlessly.

Do both versions of the program have the same amount of memory allocated to
them? Have you tried using a fresh copy of 1.49?

>I have been reading about Image 1.50b and others. Does the b 
>stand for beta?, if so, when could we expect a bug free Image 
>1.50? is it "risky" to use 1.50b? should I wait to download the final 
>version?

The "b" stands for beta. There will never be a version of Image that is
entirely free of bugs; all complex programs have bugs. The 1.50 beta on
Zippy should have fewer bugs than 1.49 since it fixes at least seven bugs
that were in 1.49. Of course, there is always the possibility that it
introduces some new bugs, but usually I am able to stomp out bugs faster
than I create them

--wayne


From dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu  Tue Jul 13 12:41:23 1993
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From: Doug Morris <dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199307132241.AA05455@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Undeliverable Mail
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:41:23 -0500 (CDT)
In-Reply-To: <9307131902.AA08321@saturn.soils.umn.edu> from "John Ladwig" at Jul 13, 93 02:46:12 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 222       

Thanks.
> 
> Doug Morris <dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu> writes on 13 July 1993 at 10:12:01 -0500
> 
>  > Please put a filter on listserv to avoid massed amounts of
>  > undeliverable mail.
> 
> .. am working on it ...
> 
> 


From pwf@unet.umn.edu  Tue Jul 13 12:42:40 1993
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In-Reply-To: <9307131902.AA08321@saturn.soils.umn.edu> from "John Ladwig" at Jul 13, 93 02:49:06 pm
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From: "Paul W. Fakler" <pwf@unet.umn.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Cc: pwf@unet.unet.umn.edu (Paul W. Fakler)
Subject: Re: mailing list setup
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:42:40 -0500 (CDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From nih-image@soils.umn.edu Tue Jul 13 17:07:26 1993
> From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
> Subject: Re: Undeliverable Mail
> 
> Doug Morris <dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu> writes on 13 July 1993 at 10:12:01 -0500
> 
>  > Please put a filter on listserv to avoid massed amounts of
>  > undeliverable mail.
> 
> .. am working on it ...

The problem is that mail is going out with RFC821 SMTP command of:

	Mail From:<nih-image@soils.umn.edu>

When you want it to be 

	Mail From:<owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu>


You can get this by doing the following:



Set up your mailing list in /etc/aliases as follows:

net-people:     "|/usr/local/sbin/sendmail -odb -oi -om -os -fowner-net-people@mail.unet.umn.edu net-people-list"
net-people-list: :include:/etc/al/net-people
owner-net-people: unet
net-people-request: unet



Substituting for your list and locations, you get:

nih-image:     "|/usr/lib/sendmail -odb -oi -om -os -fowner-nih-image@mail.unet.umn.edu nih-image-list"
nih-image-list: :include:/etc/nih-image
owner-nih-image: jladwig
nih-image-request: jladwig

and create a link between /etc/nih-image and where you have the mailing list.

run newaliases, etc...

Rejected mail will now go to jladwig, or whereever (one copy), and not to the
whole list.  jladwig can then get a look at problem deliveries without 
affecting the whole list.

I also have made mods to sendmail 5.65c to support large mailing lists.  I'll
talk to you about them if you want.


Paul.

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Paul W. Fakler                                                        | 
*---------------------------------*-------------------------------------*
| Internet : pwf@unet.umn.edu     |   Networking Services               |
| Bitnet   : pwf@umnacvx.bitnet   |   Computer and Information Services |
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From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Tue Jul 13 15:14:38 1993
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	id AA18506; Tue, 13 Jul 1993 20:11:31 -0500
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Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1)
	id AA09145; Tue, 13 Jul 93 20:14:38 CDT
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 20:14:38 CDT
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9307140114.AA09145@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: mailing list setup
In-Reply-To: "Paul W. Fakler"'s message <199307132242.AA03772@unet.unet.umn.edu> of 13 July 1993
References: <199307132242.AA03772@unet.unet.umn.edu>

"Paul W. Fakler" <pwf@unet.umn.edu> writes on 13 July 1993 at 17:41:20 -0500

 > The problem is that mail is going out with RFC821 SMTP command of:
 > 
 > 	Mail From:<nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
 > 
 > When you want it to be 
 > 
 > 	Mail From:<owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
 > 
 > 
 > You can get this by doing the following:
 > 
 > Set up your mailing list in /etc/aliases as follows:
 > 
 > net-people:     "|/usr/local/sbin/sendmail -odb -oi -om -os -fowner-net-people@mail.unet.umn.edu net-people-list"
 > net-people-list: :include:/etc/al/net-people
 > owner-net-people: unet
 > net-people-request: unet

Umm, except that my aliases file looks like:

    # Listserver section
    #
    listserv:	"|/usr/server/catmail -r -f"
    nih-image:	"|/usr/server/catmail -L NIH-IMAGE -f"
    nih-image-request:	owner-nih-image

    listserv-manager:	jladwig
    owner-nih-image:	jladwig

as I am running unix-listserv 5.5 (from tasos@cs.bu.edu).

I am investigating a newer version of unix-listserver (6.0 with 6.0a
to be released shortly), as Tasos (the author) says it will have
somewhat better error and loop recognition.  Also, sendmail never sees
any outgoing message; they're delivered directly by a listserver
daemon which handles digesting, archiving, and other useful things.

I may be able to get a temporary fix into my nih-image configuration,
however, at least as regards the From: processing.  Ninety nine and
some fraction percent of all bounce messages go (correctly) back along
the Errors-To: specification, but I'll see if that hack makes things
work OK.  When that fails, I have set my list to reject messages from
unsubscribed parties, which gets some more of the unobservant mailers.


    From nih-image@soils.umn.edu  Tue Jul 13 17:47:26 1993
    Received: from  (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c)
	    id AA17859; Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:47:26 -0500
    Return-Path: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
    Message-Id: <01H0I3QPBIZMAFTVLG@vx.cis.umn.edu>
    Comment:  NIH Image Distribution List
    Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
    Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu
    Reply-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
    Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
    Status: U
    From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
    Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
    To: postman@frmop22.cnusc.fr
    Cc: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu
    Subject: Undelivered mail
    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:47:26 -0500

    postman@frmop22.cnusc.fr: You are not subscribed to nih-image@soils.umn.edu.
    Your message is returned to you unprocessed. If you want to subscribe,
    send mail to listserv@soils.umn.edu with the following request:

		    subscribe NIH-IMAGE Your Name

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Your mail was not delivered to some or all of its
    intended recipients for the following reason(s):

    6001 no valid recipients for this node

 [ ... ]

From mvivino@helix.nih.gov  Wed Jul 14 04:19:36 1993
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["616" "Wed" "14" "July" "93" "08:19:36" "-0400" "mvivino@helix.nih.gov" "mvivino@helix.nih.gov" nil "21" "Re: Application: DNA gels" nil nil nil "7"])
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	id AA21336; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 07:15:12 -0500
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Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0))
	id AA19678; Wed, 14 Jul 93 08:19:36 -0400
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 08:19:36 -0400
Message-Id: <9307141219.AA19678@helix.nih.gov>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov
X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13
Subject: Re: Application: DNA gels


>1)  I need a UV filter for the camera that will filter the light from
>        the UV light box used to visualize the DNA.  Most standard
>        photographic filters are not adequate.  Any suggestions will
>        be appriciated.

Try this company, they have a full line of high grade filters. The filters
tend to attenuate light out of the passband better than any that I have
seen. I don't have any UV filters from them, but have found some excellent
ones for Coomassie blue and IR surpressing.

Corian Corp
1-508-429-5065
73 Jeffrey Ave.
Holliston, MA 01746-208


Mark Vivino
NIH/DCRT
mvivino@helix.nih.gov


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Wed Jul 14 10:16:56 1993
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["518" "Wed" "14" "July" "1993" "10:16:56" "+0000" "Wayne Rasband" "wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov" nil "11" "Re: video rate acquisition problem" nil nil nil "7"])
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	id AA22316; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 10:14:44 -0500
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	id AA15733; Wed, 14 Jul 93 10:31:30 -0400
Message-Id: <9307141431.AA15733@zippy.nimh.nih.gov>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 10:16:56 +0000
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: video rate acquisition problem

>I am using Image 1.50b95 on Quadra 800 (24 MB RAM) with Scion LG-3 frame
>grabber (16 MB expanded memory). I can average frames at video rate but when
>making movie the highest rate I get is about 15 frames per second. I would be
>grateful for any help from more experienced users.

The Make Movie command does not yet support video rate capture using the
LG-3's expanded memory. You might want to give Tod Weinberg of Scion a
call. I believe he has a modified version of Image that does video rate
capture.

--wayne


From dave@nucleus.immunol.washington.edu  Wed Jul 14 02:13:56 1993
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["1439" "Wed" "14" "July" "93" "09:13:56" "-0700" "Dave Coder" "dave@nucleus.immunol.washington.edu" nil "37" "Re: Application: DNA gels" nil nil nil "7"])
Received: from nucleus.immunol.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c)
	id AA22692; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:09:46 -0500
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Received: by nucleus.immunol.washington.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M)
	id AA20283; Wed, 14 Jul 93 09:13:56 -0700
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 09:13:56 -0700
From: Dave Coder <dave@nucleus.immunol.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <9307141613.AA20283@nucleus.immunol.washington.edu>
Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1.RR)
Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1.RR)
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Application: DNA gels


>>1)  I need a UV filter for the camera that will filter the light  
from
>>        the UV light box used to visualize the DNA.  Most standard
>>        photographic filters are not adequate.  Any suggestions  
will
>>        be appriciated.

If filtering out uv to visualize ethidium fluorescence is the goal,  
then there should be lots of photographic filters that should do the  
job. UV is generally easy to filter out. I would think that uv/haze  
filters should do the job, or to be really sure, a yellow long pass  
filter (50% transmission peak at 550nm) will easily do the job. Color  
correction filters (those for correcting the response of color films  
to different color temperature light sources) such as 85 or 81A would  
probably work as well since they absorb at the blue end of the  
spectrum. Filter fluorescence for this application should be  
undetectable; it's easy to check. One of several advantages of using  
photographic filters with standard camera lenses is that you can get  
the filters in diameters to screw into the camera lens. If you want  
to use a variety of filters available only as squares, then there are  
mounts that make it very easy to slip in various filters.


>Try this company, they have a full line of high grade filters.

>Corian Corp
>1-508-429-5065
>73 Jeffrey Ave.
>Holliston, MA 01746-208

Corian makes lots of filters for many applications.

Dave Coder
dcoder@u.washington.edu




From @dka.smhms.imperial.ac.uk:rph30@uk.ac.ic.sm.mailhost  Wed Jul 14 11:36:37 1993
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["6261" "Wed" "14" "July" "1993" "17:36:37" "CST" "Richard P Harbottle" "r.harbottle@smhms.imperial.ac.uk" nil "165" "Re: Application: DNA gels" nil nil nil "7"])
Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c)
	id AA22888; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:38:22 -0500
Return-Path: <@dka.smhms.imperial.ac.uk:rph30@uk.ac.ic.sm.mailhost>
Via: uk.ac.imperial.smhms.dka; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 17:42:27 +0100
X-Nupop-Charset: English
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 17:36:37 CST
From: Richard P Harbottle <r.harbottle@smhms.imperial.ac.uk>
Sender: rph30@uk.ac.ic.sm.mailhost
Reply-To: r.harbottle@smhms.imperial.ac.uk
Message-Id: <63399.r.harbottle@sm.ic.ac.uk>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Re: Application: DNA gels

In Message Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:17:49 -0500,
  Dave Coder <dave%nucleus.immunol.washington.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu> writes:

>
>>>1)  I need a UV filter for the camera that will filter the light  
>from
>>>        the UV light box used to visualize the DNA.  Most standard
>>>        photographic filters are not adequate.  Any suggestions  
>will
>>>        be appriciated.
>
>If filtering out uv to visualize ethidium fluorescence is the goal,  
>then there should be lots of photographic filters that should do the  
>job. UV is generally easy to filter out. I would think that uv/haze  
>filters should do the job, or to be really sure, a yellow long pass  
>filter (50% transmission peak at 550nm) will easily do the job. Color  
>correction filters (those for correcting the response of color films  
>to different color temperature light sources) such as 85 or 81A would  
>probably work as well since they absorb at the blue end of the  
>spectrum. Filter fluorescence for this application should be  
>undetectable; it's easy to check. One of several advantages of using  
>photographic filters with standard camera lenses is that you can get  
>the filters in diameters to screw into the camera lens. If you want  
>to use a variety of filters available only as squares, then there are  
>mounts that make it very easy to slip in various filters.
>
>
>>Try this company, they have a full line of high grade filters.
>
>>Corian Corp
>>1-508-429-5065
>>73 Jeffrey Ave.
>>Holliston, MA 01746-208
>
>Corian makes lots of filters for many applications.
>
>Dave Coder
>dcoder@u.washington.edu

To photograph Ethidium fluorescence on our Polaroid camera we use a Tiffen
Ser.6 15 Orange (U.S.A.) filter.
The UV transluminator manufacturer recommends using a Kodak Wratten No. 23A
filter. This blocks UV and the visible blue light from the transluminator.

I hope this helps.

rph30@sm.ic.ac.uk
*******
Richard
*******

From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU  Wed Jul 14 06:37:53 1993
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["73" "Wed" "14" "July" "93" "13:37:53" "PDT" "Chi-Bin Chien" "chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU " nil "1" "macro control of Scion gain and brightness" nil nil nil "7"])
Received: from ucsd.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c)
	id AA24252; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 15:33:30 -0500
Return-Path: <chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>
Received: from jeeves.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA21115
	sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP
	Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:37:55 -0700 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Received: by jeeves.UCSD.EDU (4.1/UCSDGENERIC.4)
	id AA20436 to nih-image@soils.umn.edu; Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:37:53 PDT
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:37:53 PDT
From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien)
Message-Id: <9307142037.AA20436@jeeves.UCSD.EDU>
To: benedict@jeeves.ucsd.edu, nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: macro control of Scion gain and brightness

Is there a way to set the gain and brightness controls of the Scion LG-3

From a macro? I had assumed that there was, but after much flipping through
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["36" "" "" "" "" "" "" "a" "a" nil "2" "" nil nil nil ""])
the Change History and manual, I have been unable to find these functions,
which would be useful I think.

Chi-Bin Chien
chien@jeeves.ucsd.edu

From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com  Thu Jul 15 05:52:48 1993
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["804" "Thu" "15" "July" "93" "09:52:48" "EDT" "sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com" "sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com" nil "26" "getting NIH.image 1.50b97" nil nil nil "7"])
Received: from GATEKEEPER.ROCHE.COM by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c)
	id AA28438; Thu, 15 Jul 1993 08:48:28 -0500
Return-Path: <sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com>
Received: by gatekeeper.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691);
	id AA12962; Thu, 15 Jul 93 09:52:49 -0400
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	id AA11468; Thu, 15 Jul 93 09:51:21 -0400
From: sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com
Message-Id: <9307151351.AA11468@mailgate.roche.com>
Received: from rnisd0.enet; by inet.enet; Thu, 15 Jul 93 09:52:48 EDT
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 09:52:48 EDT
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: getting NIH.image 1.50b97

Wayne:

I got the following message when trying to retrieve nih-image 1.50b97:

--- connecting to zippy.nimh.nih.gov...
Connecting to zippy.nimh.nih.gov
220 zippy FTP server (Version 1.7.109.2 Tue Jul 28 23:32:34 GMT 1992) ready.
--- logging in as user=anonymous password=-ftpmail/Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.C*
---> USER anonymous
331 Guest login ok, send ident as password.
---> PASS <somestring>
230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
---> TYPE A
200 Type set to A.
=== getting '/pub/nih-image150b97.hqx'...
---> PORT 16,1,0,6,18,76
200 PORT command successful.
---> RETR /pub/nih-image150b97.hqx
550 /pub/nih-image150b97.hqx: No such file or directory.
Failure on RETR command
!!! cannot initiate RETR
---> (end of ftpmail session)   

What am I doing wrong??

Did you uploaded a new version?

From afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com  Thu Jul 15 11:24:50 1993
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["1206" "Thu" "15" "July" "1993" "16:24:50" "-0500" "Albert Ruppert" "afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com " nil "37" "Re: getting NIH.image 1.50b97" nil nil nil "7"])
Received: from erenj.com (ereapp.erenj.com) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c)
	id AA00535; Thu, 15 Jul 1993 15:17:26 -0500
Return-Path: <afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com>
Received: by erenj.com (5.65/mjr-920806);
	id AA23590; Thu, 15 Jul 93 16:21:47 -0400
Received: by eredns.erenj.com (5.65/bdb-mailv1.3-erenj);
	id AA19667; Thu, 15 Jul 93 16:21:39 -0400
Posted-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 16:24:50 -0500
Message-Id: <9307152021.AA19667@eredns.erenj.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 16:24:50 -0500
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
From: afruppe@pxdvgx.erenj.com (Albert Ruppert)
Subject: Re: getting NIH.image 1.50b97

>Wayne:
>
>I got the following message when trying to retrieve nih-image 1.50b97:
>
>--- connecting to zippy.nimh.nih.gov...
>Connecting to zippy.nimh.nih.gov
>220 zippy FTP server (Version 1.7.109.2 Tue Jul 28 23:32:34 GMT 1992) ready.
>--- logging in as user=anonymous
>password=-ftpmail/Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.C*
>---> USER anonymous
>331 Guest login ok, send ident as password.
>---> PASS <somestring>
>230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
>---> TYPE A
>200 Type set to A.
>=== getting '/pub/nih-image150b97.hqx'...
>---> PORT 16,1,0,6,18,76
>200 PORT command successful.
>---> RETR /pub/nih-image150b97.hqx
>550 /pub/nih-image150b97.hqx: No such file or directory.
>Failure on RETR command
>!!! cannot initiate RETR
>---> (end of ftpmail session)   
>
>What am I doing wrong??
>
>Did you uploaded a new version?

You don't have the full path in your get commannd. Try
 get /pub/nih-image/nih-image150b97.hqx
===========================================================================
All thoughts expressed are mine and are not intended to reflect the
opinions of my employer. (disclaimer)

       	        	       	Al Ruppert  afruppe@erenj.com
        	       	       	(908) 730-2979


From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Fri Jul 16 03:06:33 1993
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["4139" "Fri" "16" "July" "93" "08:06:33" "CDT" "\"John Ladwig\"" "jladwig@soils.umn.edu" nil "105" "Looping messages " "^From:" nil nil "7"])
Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c)
	id AA04889; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 08:03:30 -0500
Return-Path: <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1)
	id AA17454; Fri, 16 Jul 93 08:06:33 CDT
Message-Id: <9307161306.AA17454@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: Looping messages 
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 08:06:33 CDT

Yeah, I see 'em too.

I've appealed to the administrator of the host generating these
messages, and am exploring internal filter possibilities (don't know
why the one I tried didn't work...)

Please don't panic, and please don't send copies back to the list
asking what this is all about...

Thanks bunches..

    -jml

From jladwig  Fri Jul 16 03:38:54 1993
Status: O
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	["231" "Fri" "16" "July" "1993" "08:38:54" "-0500" "\"John Ladwig\"" "jladwig" nil "6" "... just testing ..." nil nil nil "7"])
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From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig>
Message-Id: <199307161338.AA05347@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Subject: ... just testing ...
To: nih-image
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 08:38:54 -0500 (CDT)
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I'm still trying to clamp down on the loop; I just need to know if I've
clamped down too tight.

-- 
	     UMN Department of Soil Science; St. Paul, MN
Internet: john.ladwig@soils.umn.edu             Fidonet: John Ladwig 1:282/341

From steven@cell.BIH.Harvard.Edu  Fri Jul 16 04:21:31 1993
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	["2333" "Fri" "16" "July" "93" "08:21:31" "EDT" "Steven Blechner" "steven@cell.BIH.Harvard.Edu " nil "59" "SelectPic('Title') Advice Needed..." "^From:" nil nil "7"])
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From: steven@cell.BIH.Harvard.Edu (Steven Blechner)
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: SelectPic('Title') Advice Needed...
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 08:21:31 EDT

We are using Image version 1.49. We cannot currently upgrade
to the newest version easily, but our lives would be infinitely
simpler if we could add the new SelectPic by 'Titile' options
to our macros.  Can anyone assist me in adding that new
functionality to the older version ?  I am moderately
Pascal proficient.  Thank you.

Sincerely,
steve

Steven L. Blechner, Ph.D.
Director, Molecular Computing Facility
Beth Israel Hospital
Boston, MA
E-mail: steven@cell.bih.harvard.edu

From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com  Fri Jul 16 10:43:11 1993
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	["1274" "" "16" "July" "1993" "11:40:42" "U" "\"Norm Hurst\"" "norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com" nil "38" "Coordinated Pan and Zoom" nil nil nil "7"])
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From: "Norm Hurst" <norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com>
To: "NIH Image user group" <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Coordinated Pan and Zoom
Date: 16 Jul 1993 11:40:42 U

Coordinated Pan and Zoom                                  7/16/93
                                                                     10:36 AM
Wayne-

Is there a mode for Image that allows me to zoom multiple windows
simultaneously and then pan (with the hand tool) several images
simulataneously?  We use Image to compare the results of different processing
algorithms, and this would allow us to roam over several images at once.

By the way...

I have tried to use the macro language for signal processing, but the automatic
scaling of things like subtract and convolve messes me up. I wish I had a few
function calls like these:

A function for precision gain and offset
  y = (x + offset1)*gain + offset2

A function for adding two images 
  y = x1 + x2 + offset

A function for multiplying two images
  y = (x1 + offset1)*(x2 + offset2) + offset3

A function for convolution that doesn't decide what the offset and 
tap scale factor should be:
  y = conv(x, 'taps_filename') + offset

I've tried to implement certain signal processing algorithms (like an
NTSC-to-RGB decoder), but I can't seem to get around the automatic scale and
offset properties of subtract, multiply and convolve.  Am I missing something?

Norm Hurst (Mr. MPEG)
David Sarnoff Reseach Center






From jamiel@sybase.com  Tue Mar 16 05:13:16 1993
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	["873" "Tue" "16" "March" "1993" "13:13:16" "-0800" "Jamie Lawrence" "jamiel@sybase.com " nil "18" "" "^From:" nil nil "3"])
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From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence)
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 13:13:16 -0800

Looks like the amazing rubber mail from earlier has been solved :)

1)Does anyone know what a good reference for determining how a given
convolve filter will effect an image?  Also the other way around- how to
determine the proper array to achive a specific effect.  Here I am talking
about effects more suited artistic type stuff than image analysis.

2) as is probably clear from the above question, I don't really understand
how these things work, but is there any good way to convert a picture from
polar to retangular mapping, also reverse, a la photoshop?  I have some
(tinsy) experience with the macro language, so that is fine.  I am kind of
guessing that this is not possible, due to what I imagine is involved, but
never hurts to ask (of to ramble on nonstop like this- sorry, not enough
sleep lately :))

Any help greatly apprecieated...
jamie
jamiel@sybase.com


From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov  Fri Jul 16 16:20:17 1993
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	["1289" "Fri" "16" "July" "1993" "16:20:17" "+0000" "Wayne Rasband" "wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov" nil "28" "Re: Coordinated Pan and Zoom" "^From:" nil nil "7"])
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From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband)
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Coordinated Pan and Zoom
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 16:20:17 +0000

>Is there a mode for Image that allows me to zoom multiple windows
>simultaneously and then pan (with the hand tool) several images
>simulataneously?  We use Image to compare the results of different processing
>algorithms, and this would allow us to roam over several images at once.

There is a poorly documented synchronized scrolling feature in Image. To
try it out, open two or more windows(they must be the same size), tile them
using Tile Windows, zoom in on one of them, then pan one of the images with
the option key down. Notice how all the other images zoom and pan to the
same relative location.

>I have tried to use the macro language for signal processing, but the automatic
>scaling of things like subtract and convolve messes me up.

I am considering adding a macro function(and corresponding menu command)
something like the following:

      ImageArithmetic('op',' pic1', 'pic2', gain, offset)

'op'('Add', 'Sub', 'Mult', etc.) is the operation to be performed, 'pic1'
and 'pic2' are the two images to be operated on. Pixel values resulting

From the operation would by multiplied by the gain and then the offset
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would be added.

For convolution, I'm thinking of allowing keywords to be added to the first
line of the kernel file to control how scaling is done.

--wayne


From corbit@esseX.stfx.ca  Fri Jul 16 16:20:41 1993
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	["2203" "Fri" "16" "July" "1993" "18:24:25" "AST" "John Corbit" "corbit@esseX.stfx.ca" nil "54" "40 undeliv.mail.messages today!!! please stop." "^From:" nil nil "7"])
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From: John Corbit <corbit@esseX.stfx.ca>
To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu
Subject: 40 undeliv.mail.messages today!!! please stop.
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 18:24:25 AST

From:	MX%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" 16-JUL-1993 17:33:34.90
To:	CORBIT
CC:	
Subj:	Undeliverable Mail

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Comment:  NIH Image Distribution List
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To: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Undeliverable Mail

Attempting to deliver following mail to recipient(s):
    <jvanheld@dbmdec5.ulb.ac.be>
cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to connect for 3 days to recipient host.
Delivery will be attempted for a total of 17 days.

           ** Text of Mail follows **
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From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: undeliverable mail messages

Charles P. Daghlian <Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU > writes on 13 July 1993 at 09:20:19 -0500
 > Would you please change your mail system so we stop getting the many
 > undeliverable mail messages. If this is not possible, please remove me from
 > the list.

I'm looking into it...




From jladwig@soils.umn.edu  Fri Jul 16 12:34:12 1993
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In-Reply-To: Jamie Lawrence's message <9307162012.AA27897@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com> of 16 July 1993
References: <9307162012.AA27897@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com>
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
To: <nih-image@soils.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: 
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 17:34:12 CDT

Jamie Lawrence <jamiel@sybase.com > writes on 16 July 1993 at 15:07:26 -0500
 > Looks like the amazing rubber mail from earlier has been solved :)

I'm afraid not - *please* bear with me on this - I'm at the mercy of
some faceless administrator somewhere in Belgium on this one.

I've stopped the flow of new messages into the bounce stream, but I
can't seem to do anything automated about the recycling messages "will
keep trying for 17 days ack!).

If it *really* bothers evryone, I could shut down the list for two
weeks or until I get a response from the postmaster of the offending
system.

Comments?

    -jml