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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
+ + + + +
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
+ + + + +
CONSUMER ADVISORY COMMITTEE
+ + + + +
INAUGURAL MEETING
+ + + + +
FRIDAY,
APRIL 25, 2003
+ + + + +
The Committee met at 9:00 a.m. in the Commission 
Meeting Room, Room TW-C305, 445 12th Street, S.W., 
Washington, D.C., Shirley L. Rooker, Chair, presiding.
PRESENT:
SHIRLEY L. ROOKER             Chair
THOMAS ALLIBONE
MATTHEW D. BENNETT
DEBRA BERLYN
DAVID BRUGGER
ANNETTE CLECKNER
JIM CONRAN
CINDY COX
MICHAEL F. DelCASINO
MIKE DUKE
RICHARD T. ELLIS
LARRY GOLDBERG
JOSEPH GORDON
DAVID HOROWITZ
VERNON R. JAMES
BRENDA KELLY-FREY
KAREN KIRSCH
JEFF KRAMER
CHERYL JOHNSON
REBECCA LADEW
RONALD MALLARD
SUSAN PALMER MAZRUI
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PRESENT: (Cont'd)
DAVID POEHLMAN
MARK PRANGER
JOY M. RAGSDALE
EUGENE SEAGRIFF
BYRON W. ST. CLAIR
DONALD SNOOP
CLAUDE STOUT
LINDA WEST
ANDREA WILLIAMS
DIXIE ZIEGLER
SCOTT MARSHALL             Designated Federal Officer
PRESENT FROM FCC:
KATHLEEN ABERNATHY         Commissioner
MARSHA MacBRIDE            Chief of Staff
K. DANE SNOWDEN            Chief, CGB
MARGARET EGLER             Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB
STEPHEN GOREY              Assistant Bureau Chief, CGB
DONALD STOCKDALE           Senior Legal Advisor, OSP
PAULA SILBERTHAU           Attorney Advisor, OGC
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A-G-E-N-D-A
MORNING SESSION
WELCOME AND CALL TO ORDER:
Shirley L. Rooker, Chair
Consumer Advisor Committee (CAC)................... 5
INTRODUCTION OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
(By Members)....................................... 7
INTRODUCTION OF THE CHAIRMAN AND COMMISSIONERS:
K. Dane Snowden, Chief
Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau............ 27
OVERVIEW OF THE COMMISSION PRIORITIES:
K. Dane Snowden, Chief, CGB....................... 38
MEETING LOGISTICS:
Scott Marshall, CAC Designated Federal Officer
Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau (CGB)...... 66
CAC COMMITTEE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES: COMMITTEE
OPERATING PROTOCOLS AND THE ROLE OF WORKING GROUPS/
SUBCOMMITTEES:
Shirley Rooker, Scott Marshall.................... 68
ISSUES PENDING BEFORE THE COMMISSION OF INTEREST TO
CONSUMERS:
Margaret Egler, Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB.......... 87
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A-G-E-N-D-A
AFTERNOON SESSION
YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS A FEDERAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
MEMBER:
Paula Silberthau, Attorney Advisor
Office of General Counsel, FCC................... 127
WEB RESOURCES FOR COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND THE PUBLIC:
Stephen Gorey, Assistant Bureau Chief for
Systems CGB...................................... 134
THIS IS THE FCC: OVERVIEW OF PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES:
Donald Stockdale, Senior Legal Advisor
Office of Strategic Planning, FCC................ 162
ESTABLISHMENT OF WORKING GROUPS/SUBCOMMITTEES AND
FUTURE AGENDA TOPICS:............................ 198
COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC:........................ 249
WRAP-UP: FUTURE MEETINGS:........................ 249
ADJOURNMENT:..................................... 249
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P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S1
(9:05 a.m.)2
CHAIR ROOKER:  We've given you five extra 3
minutes.  People will tell you from the last Committee 4
that I'm not usually that generous.  If we could take 5
our seats, please.  Thank you.6
Good morning and welcome to this first 7
session of the Consumer Advisory Committee under our 8
new charter. I'm Shirley Rooker.  I'm pleased to be 9
chairing the group.  We're going to have a jam-packed 10
program today.  We have several goals to accomplish 11
throughout this meeting, and one of the things that I 12
want you to be thinking about as you're hearing our 13
speakers today is what are the working groups that we 14
want to form to bring issues to the Commission.  And 15
we're going to talk about goals and objectives today. 16
You're going to hear from the FCC staff, and I think 17
it's going to be very educational.  And hopefully, 18
you're going to be real participants in this.19
I do have a few housekeeping things that I 20
need to bring to your attention.  Number one, when 21
you're going to speak, would you please raise your 22
hand for two reasons, so that I can recognize you, and 23
also so that the people in the control booth can see 24
where you are and turn your microphone on, because I 25
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know that you've got interesting things to say, and we 1
want to hear it, so if you would do that, please.2
There's an exhibit booth outside in the 3
hallway that has some samples of the things that the 4
Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau does.  5
They're consumer educational materials, so I recommend 6
that you take a look at it when we have a break.7
Also, I would like to -- I hope all of you 8
have had some breakfast.  I'd like to thank MCI and 9
Annette Cleckner, a new member of our Committee, for 10
being so generous to sponsor our breakfast and lunch. 11
We appreciate that very much.12
There's also about 20 people at the FCC 13
who were involved in making this Committee happen.  14
Betty Thompson, and we want to thank Betty.  Is she 15
here?  Where is she?  Wherever she is.  Betty, where 16
are you?  Thank you, Betty.  And, of course, there's 17
the person that really makes it happen too, and that's 18
Scott Marshall, to my right here.  Scott is absolutely 19
wonderful.  He does all the work hopefully to make me 20
look good.  Sometimes even he can't work that hard, 21
but he tries really hard, so when I screw up, it's my 22
fault, not his.23
I think we'd like to -- what we'd like to 24
do is to get acquainted.  And we're going to have a 25
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little bit longer for lunch today so that you'll have 1
a chance to meet other people, because over half of 2
our Committee is new.  And I will tell you, there were 3
over 100 people who applied to be on the Committee, 4
and so we're so delighted that you're here with us 5
this morning.  And I think the first order of business 6
should be for us to go around the room and introduce 7
ourselves, tell us just a little bit about what 8
organization or company you represent, and what your 9
particular interest is in being on the Consumer 10
Advisory Committee, so let's start with Mike 11
DelCasino.12
MR. DelCASINO:  Thank you, Shirley.  I'm13
Mike DelCasino.  I'm representing AT&T's Federal 14
Governmental Affairs organization right here in 15
Washington.  Primary interests are, of course, the 16
consumer issues.  We have some interest in working on 17
the issues associated with persons with disabilities,18
as well.19
I would like to also introduce my 20
alternate who is here with us today, Lynn Crofton.  21
Lynn, would you please raise your hand.  Thank you.22
CHAIR ROOKER:  Cindy.23
MS. COX:  Good morning.  I'm Cindy Cox.  24
I'm with BellSouth in our Regulatory Department in 25
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Atlanta, Georgia.  I've been with BellSouth for about 1
19 years.  I've been in -- the State Regulatory 2
Offices I've been in are Washington office here, and 3
now I'm back in Atlanta.4
My particular interests are the new 5
technologies and emerging technologies, and how we 6
address various consumer issues that apply there.  I 7
would also like to introduce -- my alternate is David 8
Hartington.  David is sitting right there, and he's 9
also up from Atlanta.  We thank you, and I look 10
forward to working with you all.11
MR. CONRAN:  Good morning.  My name is Jim 12
Conran.  I'm from the San Francisco area in California 13
and delighted to be here.  I expect I'll learn a lot 14
and hope I can contribute something to the process.  I 15
worked in the telecommunications industry for over 15 16
years, both for AT&T and Pacific Bell, and then ran 17
the California Department of Consumer Affairs for the 18
Governor, and since 1994 have been -- started 19
Consumers First.20
I also am the Chairman of the Board of 21
Directors of the California Small Business 22
Association, so when I speak, I will speak on behalf 23
of both residential, as well as small business 24
consumers.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Mike.1
MR. DUKE:  My name is Mike Duke.2
CHAIR ROOKER:  Could we give him a 3
microphone there?  We want to hear you, Mike.4
MR. DUKE:  Okay.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  There we go.6
MR. DUKE:  My name is Mike Duke.  I'm from 7
Jackson, Mississippi.  I represent blind and visually 8
impaired consumers, amateur radio operators, and 9
management of audio information services for the blind 10
and impaired.11
I have worked my entire life in 12
broadcasting, and have had a radio license since I was 13
14, a long time ago.  And my primary interest is 14
making sure that people with disabilities, especially 15
vision loss, are able to operate new technology as it 16
comes out, rather than after the fact.17
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, Mike.  David.18
MR. HOROWITZ:  My name is David Horowitz, 19
and I have been most of my life a communicator working 20
for the networks as a reporter, correspondent in Viet 21
Nam, and accidentally got into the consumer area after 22
my Viet Nam experience, and worked with some friends 23
that Shirley knows, put together something called 24
"Call for Action" in New York at WMCA, and then went 25
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back to NBC and got involved full time in consumerism 1
because they couldn't find anyone else who wanted the 2
job.  So I took the job, and I took the complaints, 3
and did a television show for a long time.  We still 4
do radio and television.  I have a website that is 5
called "Fightback.com", which carries no commercials, 6
no ads of any kind.  And our mission is basically to 7
watchdog the world, particularly the communications 8
area, because it's an area that I sort of accidentally 9
also fell into and learned a lot about while it was in 10
the making as far as the new law is concerned.  And my 11
deepest concern about this whole area is that nothing 12
is moving, that consumers are still basically being 13
not listened to in terms of customer service at 14
utilities, lack of information as far as the public is 15
concerned about what's going on, lack of basic control 16
and oversight by many of the states who are just 17
letting some of the public utilities, particularly the 18
Telco people literally walk away with the store, and 19
not go after them.20
CHAIR ROOKER  And, David, we're going to 21
expect you to give us some of those suggestions.22
MR. HOROWITZ:  Oh, I'm going to end this.23
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.24
MR. HOROWITZ:  It's just that I'm sort of 25
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very into this area, and from a standpoint of fairness 1
and objectivity, not from the standpoint of being a 2
consumer person who's just looking to shoot an arrow 3
and try to get it right on the bull's-eye.4
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.5
MR. HOROWITZ:  And I want to thank 6
everyone for letting me come here.7
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Andrea.8
MS. WILLIAMS:  Good morning.  I'm Andrea 9
Williams, and I'm Assistant General Counsel with the 10
Cellular Telecommunications and Internet Association. 11
I know that's a mouthful, so we just say CTIA.  I 12
have been at CTIA now it will be 9 years next month.  13
Boy, time flies when you're having fun.14
My particular interest is accessibility 15
issues for wireless consumers, and also service 16
quality and wireless consumer complaints.  That's my 17
latest topic that I've been taking up, and I've been 18
doing regulatory work now for about oh, since `92, 19
`94.20
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, Andrea.21
MR. BRUGGER:  Hello, I'm David Brugger.  I 22
spent most of my time in public broadcasting working 23
at local stations and Corporation for Public 24
Broadcasting, and then ran their national association 25
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when we handled all of the policy regulatory lobbying 1
functions for public television.  And now I'm doing 2
consulting, a lot of it international at this point.  3
But my interest in being the -- one of the things 4
that I've always worked hard at is public 5
representation, and getting the voice of the public 6
into policy and regulatory issues.  And I want to do 7
everything I can to make sure that happens.  Thank 8
you.9
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Joy.10
MS. RAGSDALE:  Good morning.  I'm Joy 11
Ragsdale. I'm representing the National Association of 12
State Utility Consumer Advocates, more commonly 13
referred to as NASUCA.  I am with the local 14
Washington, D.C. office working with Elizabeth Noel, 15
who is the people's counsel for Washington, D.C.  And 16
NASUCA primarily is interested in all 17
telecommunication issues on the state and local level, 18
representing our rural and major metropolitan consumer 19
constituents.20
Primarily, we focus on rates to make sure 21
that they are just and reasonable, and to make sure 22
that state rights and laws are not pre-empted by 23
federal laws, and make sure that we continue to marry 24
federal laws with our state consumer issues.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Joe.1
MR. GORDON:  Good morning.  I'm Joe 2
Gordon.  I'm here representing the League for 3
Hard-of-hearing.  My interest is in accessibility for 4
hard-of-hearing consumers, to list a few, closed 5
captioning, open captioning, wireless phones.  And 6
also accessibility on the web, and also it's important 7
to have an easy way for consumers to complain, and for 8
my organization and your organization to get a report 9
on compliance with the regulations.  Thank you.10
CHAIR ROOKER:  Claude.11
MR. STOUT:  Hello, everybody.  My name is 12
Claude Stout, and I'm an Executive Director with the 13
Communication Services for the Deaf.  I represent 14
Communication Advocacy Network, CAN, and we work on 15
consumer advocacy.  We've done that for 13 different 16
organizations, for individuals who are deaf or 17
hard-of-hearing, or late-deafened, and deaf-blind.  We 18
appreciate the opportunity to serve on this Committee, 19
and now we're in our second term being here, and so 20
really want to focus on disability accessibility, and 21
captions, relay services, access to broadband 22
services, access on the Internet and those issues.  23
And I want you to know that we are not only concerned 24
with those issues, but we're also concerned about 25
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access for general consumer areas, telemarketing 1
problems and other issues that come up, and so we're 2
looking forward to -- I'm really looking forward to 3
working with all of you.  Thank you.4
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, Claude.  Brenda.5
MS. KELLY-FREY:  Good morning.  I'm Brenda 6
Kelly-Frey, and I'm with the Maryland Relay Service.  7
And I'm here representing the National Association of 8
State Relay Administration, which is the National 9
Organization of Administrators for the Relay 10
throughout the nation.  And also, I am a Chairperson 11
of the TEDPA Organization, which is Telecommunication 12
Equipment Distribution Program Associations, and this 13
is the representatives who distribute equipment, 14
specialized telephone equipment to individuals who are 15
disabled throughout the nation, so I'm here kind of 16
wearing two hats, although my primary is towards 17
relay.18
I've been an advocate for disability 19
rights for my whole life.  My parents are both deaf, 20
and so I've been fighting for the rights of the deaf 21
and hard-of-hearing forever, and I'm not going to 22
mention how many exact years until you get to know me 23
a little bit better.  And I'm just happy to be here. 24
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.25
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MS. KELLY-FREY:  Thank you.1
CHAIR ROOKER:  Next.  I'm sorry.  I 2
haven't met the gentleman to your right.  Good 3
morning.  Please introduce yourself.4
MR. PRANGER:  I'm Mark Pranger.  I'm an 5
instructor at Rogers State University --6
CHAIR ROOKER:  We can't hear you.  Just a 7
second. Start that all over again if you would, 8
please.9
MR. PRANGER:  Okay.  My name is Mark 10
Pranger, and I'm an instructor at Rogers State 11
University.  I'm representing the academics of the 12
world, if you want to say that.  I'm also working on 13
my Ph.D. at Oklahoma State University.14
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you and welcome.  15
Debbie.16
MS. LADEW:  I'm Rebecca Ladew.  I sit on 17
the Governor's Advisory Board for Telecommunications 18
Relay.  I'm the speech- disabled representative.  I am 19
here to represent speech-to-speech relay users, and I 20
have been asked to take over this position from Bob 21
Segalman, who's the founder of Speech-to-Speech, who 22
was also on this Committee for the past two years.23
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, Rebecca.  24
Cheryl.25
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MS. JOHNSON:  My name is Cheryl Johnson.  1
I'm a member of the Lummi Tribe, which is located in 2
northwest Washington.  I work for the Affiliated 3
Tribes of Northwest Indians Economic Development 4
Corporation.  That's a mouthful.  We're usually 5
ATNIEDC.  We've had a tribal telephone outreach 6
program for the last year and a half, focusing on 7
getting people involved in the Lifeline Link-up 8
program for tribal lands.  We've also worked on making 9
the consumer rules in the State of Washington a little 10
more user-friendly.11
We've been very involved with several 12
other non-profits in the state.  We formed the TCEC, 13
which is the Telephone Consumer Education Consortium, 14
and we worked together to lobby for changes to the 15
Washington Administrative Code.  We have also 16
testified on behalf of our constituents, and we've 17
made a lot of strides in making some changes to make 18
things better for consumers, and we're honored to be 19
here.  And even though it says ATNIEDC, I'm actually 20
representing all of those consumer groups of the State 21
of Washington.  Thank you.22
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Pass the 23
microphone.  Hi, Vernon.24
MR. JAMES:  Good morning.  It's good to be 25
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here.  My name is Vernon James, and I'm with the San 1
Carlos Apache Telecommunications Utility Incorporated, 2
another mouthful.  We can it SCATUI, for short. I'm 3
the General Manager, and I'm pleased to be back here. 4
My mission is to educate the world as to what a small 5
telephone company is in rural America, rural Arizona, 6
and on a reservation.  Thank you.7
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Hi, I'm Eugene 8
Seagriff. I'm Group Manager of the Accessibility 9
Program at Panasonic.  For the past 20 years, I've 10
been involved in product development either as an 11
engineer, in sales and marketing, or in my current 12
responsibilities.13
My personal interest is in accessibility, 14
obviously.  However, here on the Committee, I'm 15
representing the Telecommunications Industry 16
Association, TIA, which is an association of telecom 17
manufacturers and carriers, both wired and wireless, 18
so I look forward to working with you all.19
CHAIR ROOKER: Thank you.  Rich.20
MR. ELLIS:  Good morning.  I'm Rich Ellis 21
from Verizon, and my consumer's use go back to my 22
college days.  My first job out of college was working 23
for Betty Furness, who was the consumer reporter at 24
NBC News in New York, and when Betty learned I was 25
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going to work for the telephone company, she accused 1
me of going to the dark side, but made me promise to 2
shake things up if I was going to stay there, so I 3
hope I've been doing that for the past 20 years.4
I currently am doing tariff work, but also 5
am involved in consumer's use and disability issues 6
for Verizon, and a former member of Shirley's Board, 7
Call for Action, and am now a member of the board of 8
the American Association of People with Disabilities.9
MR. ST. CLAIR:  Good morning.  I'm Byron 10
St. Clair.  I'm President of the National Translator 11
Association.  And first I must tell you that this has 12
nothing to do with languages.  Translators are small 13
licensed television and FM stations that automatically 14
repeat free over-the-air television and radio signals 15
into areas that do not get direct reception.  There 16
are some 6,000 translators, three-quarters of them in 17
the Western United States, and probably a comparable 18
number of FM translators.19
We think inadvertently through neglect and 20
because we are in out-of-the way areas, the policies 21
of the FCC and other government agencies have 22
inhibited the full growth of this consumer-friendly 23
free over-the-air relay service, and I am here in 24
hopes that some people will listen to our problems.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Ron.1
MR. MALLARD:  Good morning.  I'm Ron 2
Mallard.  I'm here representing, contrary to this 3
sign, the -- Brenda was wondering who was here on 4
behalf of the Relay Administration.  I'm here 5
representing the National Association of Consumer 6
Agency Administrators.  I've long been involved in 7
that organization in leadership positions.  I am also 8
the past president of the National Association of 9
Telecommunication Officers and Advisors who I'm kind 10
of indirectly representing here in some subsidiary 11
fashion because they were interested in having a seat 12
at the table here.13
With all of that local government 14
experience, and that is what I do, it's the local 15
government administration of consumer protection 16
functions and cable television regulation for the most 17
part, and telecommunications construction in local 18
government areas.  I'm here pretty much representing 19
the consumer interest point of view, as well as 20
getting enforcement of telecommunication issues and 21
problems down to the proper level of local 22
governments, and the local franchising authorities.  23
And another obviously specific interest for all of us, 24
as it is high on our list, is increasing the 25
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competitiveness of the markets in telecommunications.1
MS. KIRSCH:  Good morning, everyone.  My 2
name is Karen Kirsch, and I am Vice President of 3
Regulatory Affairs for the National Association of 4
Broadcasters.  And contrary to my sign, I'm not with 5
the Media Access Group, even though Larry has told me 6
that I'm welcome to join.7
Once again, I work for the National 8
Association of Broadcasters.  We represent free 9
over-the-air radio and television broadcasters across 10
the country.  I was a member of last term's Committee, 11
and so it's good to be back to continue our work.  And 12
it's also good to see so many of the people that were 13
on the last Committee, so thank you very much.14
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Larry.15
MR. GOLDBERG:  Hi, I'm Larry Goldberg.  16
I'm Director of the Media Access Group at WGBH, Public 17
Broadcaster in Boston where closed-captioning was18
developed, and video description.  Interestingly, 19
David Brugger provided some of our first grants to 20
enable video description, so anyone who uses video 21
description should thank David.22
We also have our National Center for 23
Accessible Media, which examines the issues of 24
accessibility of new and emerging media of all forms.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Linda.1
MS. WEST:  Good morning.  I'm Linda West. 2
I'm from Ronan, Montana, a member of the Confederated 3
Salish and Kootenai Tribes.  I've been a member of 4
the Ronan Telephone Company's Consumer Advisory 5
Committee for the last 5 years, and I welcome this 6
opportunity from our part of the United States of 7
America to share our concerns and the problems that we 8
have with the Committee.9
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.10
MR. SNOOP:  Good morning.  Don Snoop.  I'm 11
with Hometown Online, which is a subsidiary of Warwick 12
Valley Telephone Company, and we have just launched 13
about a year ago digital TV over telephone lines with 14
VDSL technology.  And one of the gentlemen here 15
mentioned emerging technologies, which that is one of 16
them.  And I want to make sure that there gets to be a 17
better understanding of the impact that it's going to 18
have, and how it can actually contribute in a 19
competitive world, actually competing against not only 20
the cable operator, but also Direct TV.21
And by the way, I did come from the cable 22
TV industry.  I spent 33 years in the cable industry, 23
so I have very well- rounded experience on that end, 24
and also now am learning on the telephone side.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.1
MR. ALLIBONE:  I'm Tom Allibone, President 2
of LTC Consulting, and also the Executive Director of 3
Auditing for Teletruth.  LTC is involved with auditing 4
phone bills, so of particular interest for my 5
involvement with the Committee, especially seeing the 6
revision statement, I saw all these consumer issues, 7
truth-in-billing, bundling of charges, phone bill 8
related types of issues, that is my hot button, so I'm 9
looking forward to bringing my expertise to the table 10
and working with everybody on this Committee.11
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Annette.12
MS. CLECKNER:  Good morning.  My name is 13
Annette Cleckner.  I'm with MCI.  I'm Senior Manager 14
of Consumer Affairs and Quality.  We're particularly 15
interested in issues that affect competitive local 16
exchange carriers and long distance carriers, as we 17
are both of those.  And interested in issues involving 18
telemarketing, slamming, cramming, and the various 19
issues that consumers face, and so I hope to be able 20
to contribute to the discussion now that I'm sitting 21
at the table.  I was glad to join the Committee at the 22
table.  I've been participating just in the audience 23
in the past, so I appreciate that.  Thank you.24
CHAIR ROOKER:  Jeff.25
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MR. KRAMER:  Thank you.  I'm Jeff Kramer 1
with AARP.  I serve as AARP's liaison essentially to 2
the FCC.  I, too, am a returning member, and very glad 3
to be back here.  As you can imagine from AARP's 4
diverse membership, we're involved in quite a few 5
issues at the FCC.  We care about wireless, wire line, 6
broadband, broadcast, just about everything that runs 7
the gamut of the issues at the FCC.8
Our major concerns, as you can imagine, 9
center around accessibility, reliability, 10
affordability, those type of issues, and I look 11
forward to working with everyone.  Thank you.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, Jeff.  Debra.13
MS. BERLYN:  Good morning.  I'm Debra 14
Berlyn, and I'm President of Consumer Policy 15
Consulting.  I've been working on telecommunications 16
and consumer's issues for about 14 years, starting as 17
Director of NASUCA, and then co-founding and directing 18
the Competition Policy Institution.  And about a year 19
ago I went off on my own, and have been consistently 20
interested in bringing the benefits of competition to 21
consumers, and ensuring that the risks and 22
disadvantages of the competitive market are minimized 23
for consumers.24
I'm looking forward to serving on this 25
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Committee.  I'm also interested in new technologies 1
and advanced services reaching consumers so that they 2
can realize the benefits of those services, as well.  3
Thank you.4
MS. MAZRUI:  I'm Susan Palmer Mazrui, and 5
I work for Cingular Wireless as Director of Federal 6
Regulatory Affairs.  Our interests are in consumer, 7
and also disability issues, and I'm excited to be on 8
this Committee.9
MS. ZIEGLER:  Good morning.  My name is 10
Dixie Ziegler.  I work for a company called Hamilton 11
Telecommunications.  We are a small local telephone 12
company in Central Nebraska, but I'm actually here 13
representing Telecommunications Relay Providers, one 14
of the divisions of our company is relay services for 15
deaf, heard-of-hearing and speech-impaired, and look 16
forward to working on TRS issues.  And I am very much 17
a new person to this Committee and look forward to 18
meeting all of you and getting to know all of you 19
better.20
MR. BENNETT:  Good morning.  My name is 21
Matt Bennett.  I'm with the Alliance for Public 22
Technology.  APT is a broad- based consumer group 23
concerned with the universal deployment to and access 24
to broadband services, particularly to traditionally 25
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under-served communities, rural, people with 1
disabilities, low income, and so our interests lie 2
there.  I'm looking forward to working on how this 3
Committee can work on the new and emerging 4
technologies.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  And David.6
MR. POEHLMAN:  I'm with you there, Matt.  7
This is David Poehlman with the American Council of 8
the Blind, a new member of AARP, a Cingular Wireless 9
and Verizon subscriber.10
CHAIR ROOKER:  Can you plug anyone else?11
MR. POEHLMAN:  And I hope to learn a lot 12
from the new faces here.  I would like to say not only 13
good morning, but hello to those of you out there who 14
might be listening for whom it is not morning, and 15
sometime in the future for whom it won't be morning 16
when you dig out the archive and listen to it.17
I am fond aficionado of the Internet and I 18
hope to further the Committee's prestigious work in 19
the past into the -- into and throughout the current 20
Committee.  We've had a lot of very talented people 21
and we continue to have, and have talented people here 22
that really make things work well for us, and that I 23
learn from.  So thank you all for having me again, 24
even though I am a troublemaker, and thank you all for 25
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being here who are here for the first time, and 1
welcome back.2
CHAIR ROOKER:  David, that's why we have 3
you sitting up here where I can just crack you in the 4
head.  Right?5
(Laughter.)6
CHAIR ROOKER:  Welcome, David.  Thank you 7
so much.  I'm Shirley Rooker.  As I said, I'm the 8
Chair of the Consumer Advisory Committee.  IN the real 9
world, I'm the President of Call for Action, which is 10
a 40 year old consumer group.  Locally, I run the Call 11
for Action at WROP Radio and do consumer reports 12
there, and also do consumer reports on the AP radio 13
network.  I chaired the Committee the last two years, 14
and I'm honored to be back.  And among some of the 15
reasons that I find it a pleasure is our next speaker, 16
and he is really one of the great pleasures of serving 17
as the chair of this Committee.18
He's active in all kinds of charitable 19
organizations.  He has special interest in those that 20
address the needs of children and young people.  He's 21
a volunteer with the Everybody Wins youth mentoring 22
and reading program, as if he didn't have enough to 23
do.  He's Dane Snowden.  He's the Chief of the 24
Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau.  Thank you, 25
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Dane.  Welcome.1
MR. SNOWDEN:  Thank you very much, 2
Shirley.  That was unexpected and very, very nice.  3
Well, welcome everyone.  I am proud to be here.  I'm 4
happy to be here.  I'm the Chief of the Consumer and 5
Governmental Affairs Bureau, and a lot of folks behind 6
the scenes are making me look good, so I want to thank 7
my staff for doing an excellent job of all the hard 8
work in putting this Committee together.9
I have to say that we've been going 10
looking at your names for many, many months, so it's 11
great to actually finally see some faces.  And as I 12
look around the room I see some new faces, and welcome 13
aboard.  And some of you who were here last year, 14
welcome back.  It's a pleasure to have you all here.15
As Shirley mentioned earlier in her 16
opening remarks, we had 100 applicants apply to be on 17
the Consumer Advisory Committee, which is outstanding. 18
And, of course, it was very tough coming down to the 19
wire and figuring out who the 35 applicants were going 20
to be to actually receive the Chairman's nod to be on 21
this Committee.  And one of the things as you all went 22
around the room and discussed what your interests are, 23
and why you applied, et cetera, you probably noted 24
what we were looking for, and it was very clear - our 25
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goal is very clear - we wanted to have a diverse group 1
of people around this table to help this Commission 2
make some tough decisions.  And I think we have 3
accomplished that.  Of course, these meetings are open 4
to the public, so we also have public participation as 5
we go forward.  But this group here is very diverse, 6
and we're very fortunate to have all of you on board 7
with us.8
We're looking forward to, of course, a 9
healthy, deliberate and productive conversations from 10
all of you throughout your two year term here.  And 11
again, if there's anything that I can do for you, 12
please call on me.13
Now before I ask some leadership from the 14
Commission to come forward, I want to just pause for a 15
second and say a special thanks to you, Shirley.  As 16
you mentioned earlier, you did chair the former CDTAC 17
and now you're chairing the CAC, and this is not an 18
easy job because this is what's you're doing, and you 19
have a day job, and we recognize that.  And you do 20
your day job very well.  I've been on your show a 21
couple of times, and I do enjoy it, but I know this 22
takes a lot of time out of your schedule, and the 23
Commission really thanks you for all of your hard 24
work.25
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Now it is my -- actually, let's give 1
Shirley a round of applause.2
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  It would be 3
better at the end of the day if they really mean it.4
(Laughter.)5
MR. SNOWDEN:  Now it is my pleasure to 6
bring to the podium the Chairman's Chief of Staff, Ms. 7
Marsha MacBride.  Marsha keeps trains running on time, 8
she keeps all of us in line, and she is also the left 9
and right hands of the Chairman, so she has great 10
wisdom of all that goes on here at the Commission.  In 11
addition to all of that, she's also in charge of our 12
Homeland Security Policy Council, so Marsha has a lot 13
on her schedule, and she's raising two boys and a 14
husband, so with that I say Marsha MacBride.15
MS. MacBRIDE:  I don't have a scorecard on 16
how I'm doing on that last, but we'll give it a shot 17
anyway.  Well, thank you for being here.  This is a 18
great organization.  As Chief of Staff, I have 19
actually the pleasure of being able to work on a lot 20
of advisory committees, actually all of them, and the 21
work that's done out of this Committee is 22
extraordinarily impressive.  And I'm so pleased that 23
we've been able to bring together such a good group, 24
and even expand the group from where we were last 25
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time, because I think there's so much that needs to be 1
done and can be done in the area for consumers.2
If I can put that in a context for you, at 3
least from the Chairman's perspective, there's nothing 4
at the Commission that we don't do for consumers.  5
That is our soul here. It's not for business.  It's 6
not for a special interest.  It's not for anybody but 7
to make sure that we create an environment in 8
communications that gives the consumers the best that 9
we think American society can give them.  And the 10
beauty of this organization is it helps us in that 11
measure.  It helps us put kind of a fine point on 12
where the places where we really need to expand and be 13
doing more work, where are the places that our rules, 14
for instance, are not what they could be.  And as Dane 15
said, which I think is probably the hardest one, to 16
help us make some of the tough decisions that we have 17
to make when we're making policy judgments that have 18
an impact on everyone, consumers all alike.  And I'm 19
very pleased that this Committee on its own chose to 20
expand its mission a little bit to include all 21
consumers, because I think that there are lots of 22
issues that affect individuals throughout the United 23
States in terms of its diversity in other areas, and I 24
think this is really going to help us get a better 25
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handle on those larger issues, as well.  So I won't 1
take a lot of your time.  I'm so impressed that you're 2
running ahead of schedule already this morning.  3
That's a good sign, but I did want to say thank you, 4
and I'll look for the opportunity to come and speak 5
about specific issues as we get a little farther into 6
the end of the year.  And the only really smart thing 7
I think I did was hire Dane, because I do think that 8
he is extremely dedicated to these issues, and I 9
really am pleased that Shirley and Dane are going to 10
be helping everybody pull this all together, because 11
as everybody knows, it takes a little bit of work to 12
do that.  So thank you very much, and I appreciate you 13
being here.14
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, Marsha.15
MR. SNOWDEN:  Thank you very much, Marsha. 16
I also want to acknowledge some of the other 17
Commissioner Officers that are here.  Jordan Goldstein 18
is Commissioner Copps' Senior Legal Advisor.  Jordan, 19
stand up a little longer for one second so we can get 20
a good look at you.  Jordan handles the wireless 21
issues now for -- excuse me, the media issues now.  He 22
just switched, for Commissioner Copps, who 23
unfortunately could not be with us today.  And next to 24
him is Barry Ohlson from Commissioner Adelstein's 25
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office, and Barry handles the wireless issues on 1
behalf of Commissioner Adelstein.  He and I also went 2
to college together, but that nothing to do with 3
anything here.  Yes, we have stories.  And 4
unfortunately, Commissioner Adelstein is traveling in 5
California today and cannot be with us.6
Commissioner Martin hopefully will be down 7
at some point today.  He is currently on Capitol Hill, 8
and Commissioner Abernathy is on her way, so while she 9
is on her way, I'm just going to go to some other 10
remarks that I wanted to make today, as well.  So 11
thank you very much all of you.  And actually, 12
Commissioner Abernathy has just arrived, and so I will 13
do another audible, and introduce Commissioner 14
Abernathy.15
Commissioner Abernathy came to the 16
Commission in May, 2001 from a career in the private 17
sector specializing in telecommunications.  In 18
addition to her other responsibilities at the FCC, she 19
also chairs the Federal-State Joint Board on Universal 20
Service.  She had earlier served as telecommunications 21
legal advisor, much like Jordan and Barry, to then FCC 22
Chairman, Mr. James H. Quello, and a legal advisor to 23
Commissioner Sherry Marshall, and special assistant to 24
the FCC General Counsel.  And with pleasure, my 25
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driving companion out west, Ms. Kathleen Abernathy.1
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY:  Thanks, Dane, 2
very much.  And thanks to all of you for coming here. 3
I promise the weather won't be too bad much until 4
later, but I do want to thank all of you for coming.  5
The work that you're going to embark on is very, very 6
important, and it's something that I think the FCC for 7
while we simply failed to appreciate just how 8
critical it was.  We're fortunate now to have Dane and 9
his team on board who are very, very focused on 10
consumer issues.  And that's why I wanted the 11
opportunity to talk today at this Inaugural Meeting of 12
the Consumer Advisory Committee.13
I want to thank you, because what you're 14
going to allow us to do is to tap into the expertise 15
of diverse and highly respected representatives of 16
many companies and organizations, and consumer 17
representatives to learn what more we can be doing to 18
address consumer concerns, as well as to encourage 19
consumer participation in all of our proceedings.20
I'm looking forward to learning from all 21
of you.  We're doing what we can, but there's no way 22
that we can duplicate the knowledge-base that all of 23
you have.  And I have every confidence that you will 24
do an excellent job, and I know it's not an easy task. 25
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The Commission's mission -- the Committee's mission 1
is monumental, and it cuts across numerous issues 2
involving consumers, access to telecom services by 3
people with disabilities, consumer protection and 4
education, increasing consumer participation in FCC 5
rulemaking proceedings, and the availability of new 6
technologies.  But despite all these challenges, I 7
believe that you are absolutely up to this challenge, 8
and I look forward to your end-product.9
I thought today what I might do is spend a 10
minute discussing two areas of interest to me that I 11
hope you will address since, you know, they said I 12
could talk, I thought well, I might as well lobby you. 13
The first issue is one that I've been increasingly 14
vocal on, and that is ensuring that information is 15
readily available to parents to help guide them in 16
their children's television viewing.  As a working 17
mother of a 7 year old daughter who thinks she's in 18
charge, I know how difficult is can be to be proactive 19
about what your child watches.  And this is even when 20
I know what programming is available.  Too often we 21
simply turn on the TV and react to what's there.22
So what I found is that when I talk to 23
broadcasters and cable companies and others, they are 24
delivering amazing new content that's focused on 25
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informing and educating our children, but as parents I 1
didn't know a lot about much of this programming.  And 2
I didn't know how to access that programming, or where 3
to find it.  So to that end, I've been working with 4
the Consumer and the Government Affairs Bureau to set 5
up a new parents page on the FCC website.  And this 6
page will provide parents with a new tool to assist 7
all of us in determining is out there, and what 8
programming is appropriate for the age of the children 9
that we have.  So specifically what we're going to do 10
on the parents page, is we're going to explain the 11
broadcaster's children's educational and information 12
programming requirements.  They have these programming 13
requirements.14
We're then going to provide links to the 15
stations that are willing to make their programming 16
schedules available right now, if you wanted to know 17
where to find this programming.  You really have to be 18
very sophisticated to do that, so we're going to have 19
links to the programming schedules.  We're also going 20
to have an explanation of the V-chip and other 21
blocking options that are tools for parents.  We're 22
going to talk about what the rating systems are, what 23
our indecency rules prohibit, and how to file an 24
indecency complaint.25
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I believe that having all this information 1
together on a single page that's focused on parents 2
will improve our ability to provide useful information 3
to the public, because it's only with knowledge that 4
the parents can make informed decisions, so I look 5
forward to any additional recommendations that you 6
might have about how to improve this page.7
Again, the point is when you have 100 8
channels out there, or 150 channels, you just -- there9
may be great programming coming up on Thursday that 10
you absolutely want your child to see but you don't 11
know it's there.  So that's what we're really trying 12
to do, is take all this great information and make it 13
more accessible and manageable by parents.14
Another area that I look forward to 15
hearing from the Committee on is Consumer Education 16
for Senior Citizens.  We now know that with the 17
graying of the baby boom generation, that's me and my 18
husband, the population of senior citizens in this 19
country is only going to grow, and we know that.  20
Unfortunately, we also know here at the FCC that older 21
Americans are often the most susceptible to 22
unscrupulous tactics, or they are unaware of the 23
rights that they have because they just don't 24
understand, or they're not getting consumer 25
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information made available to them.1
And in addition, many of these consumers 2
who are older don't have sufficient information about 3
the kinds of innovative telecommunication services 4
technologies or other programs that are available and 5
might assist them day-to-day as far as how they live 6
their life, and how they inform themselves, and how 7
they communicate with their families.  So I'm also 8
extremely interested in hearing the Committee's 9
recommendations on how the FCC can ensure that senior 10
citizens have adequate information on which to base 11
their communications decisions, and that they're not 12
simply staying with a single long distance provider 13
because they've had that provider forever and they're 14
paying -- I found out my mother was paying so much 15
more than I ever paid for long distance, and so I had 16
to tell her that, you know, you can change.  There are 17
many companies out there, mom.  And here's what you 18
do.  And she felt much more comfortable calling any 19
time of day or night to her children, and that was a 20
huge difference.  So it's very small, but I'm assuming 21
that she was in the situation that a lot of other 22
consumers are in too.23
These are just a couple of the numerous 24
issues, and I could go on and on, disabilities rights, 25
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access, you know, slamming complaints.  There's so 1
many of these issues, so -- and they're just as 2
important, and I hope you cover all of them.  I just 3
wanted to mention two because I've been working on 4
these for a while.5
I look forward to reviewing your 6
recommendations on all the issues you discuss, and I 7
want to personally thank you for putting the time and 8
energy into this Committee.  You know, I know it's a 9
personal commitment.  You have to fly.  You have to 10
get here some of you, and it takes time away from your 11
day jobs, but it is very, very important and we do 12
appreciate it, so thank you very much.13
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.14
MR. SNOWDEN:  Thank you very much, 15
Commissioner Abernathy.  I want to go over a few 16
things that we've learned from the Committee last 17
year.  Basically, I like to call it being students of 18
history, and the importance of communication between 19
this Committee and the FCC as we go forward.  And, of 20
course, you all have been introduced to Scott 21
Marshall, who's our Designated Federal Officer in 22
Charge of the Consumer Advisory Committee.  And he is 23
tasked with making sure you all have information, all 24
the information you need that's going on here in the 25
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Commission.1
The story I always tell, when I first came 2
on board to the FCC, was when I was talking with the 3
Chairman about coming on board, I was trying to 4
figuring out what exactly he wanted me to do by 5
leading this bureau, and so I went on the website and 6
I couldn't figure it out.  I kept saying what exactly 7
does he want a non-lawyer to do at the FCC?  And so, 8
when I got here, I realized one of the biggest holes 9
we had was to -- we didn't provide information in an 10
easily accessible format for consumers.  And so that 11
is what a large part of our task has been, and what 12
Scott will do is ensure that you all have information 13
that you need, and vice versa. We will be calling on 14
you sometimes individually to get your opinion based 15
on your various roles that you have in "day jobs".  We 16
will also -- we want advice, and if you see something 17
that we should be doing differently, please let us 18
know that.  And you probably can tell by our website, 19
and I know a member of my staff, one of my senior 20
staff members will be down here later this afternoon 21
to talk about what we are doing on our website, et 22
cetera, to make sure it is not just accessible, but 23
also has information that is good for you to use.  So 24
it's very important that we have two-way communication 25
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going back and forth.1
As I mentioned earlier, we will also seek 2
to get your recommendations on how we should make a 3
policy cut.  It's very important.  Hopefully, we'll 4
take those recommendations every time you give them.  5
Sometimes we may differ, but it's important that we 6
hear that voice, and that is one of the central tenets 7
of why we need to have this advisory committee.8
I also want to put a little plug in, if I 9
can, for something we created called "CGB News", which 10
is an e-mail service, much like -- it's not a list 11
serve because I found out that that is trademarked, so 12
I can't say that's what it is, but it works very 13
similar to that.  And it provides information to you 14
about what's going on here at the Commission, and that 15
information is in your packets, and you can easily 16
sign up for it.17
I also want to introduce you to my Bureau. 18
For some of you who are new, you may not know that we 19
went through a major reorganization here at the 20
Commission last March - excuse me - March, 2002, so 21
it's been a year now.  And it has been a very 22
fruitful, very deliberate, very taxing - I'm not going 23
to kid you - process that we went through to get to 24
the Consumer and Government Affairs Bureau.  And from 25
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that came some wonderful benefits to this Bureau, and 1
I mention this to you because it relates to the work 2
that you're doing on this Committee, and the work that 3
you do in your "day jobs".4
We have three main divisions, our Policy 5
Division, our Consumer Outreach and Inter-Governmental 6
Affairs Division - excuse me - these are offices, not 7
just divisions.  And also, an Inquiries and Complaints 8
Division.  We added our Consumer Policy, which some of 9
you may say that's -- I thought you always had that.  10
Yes, we were always doing Consumer Policy within the 11
Commission, but the Chairman said we want to make sure 12
there's a central repository looking at all consumer 13
issues across the board with everything we do at the 14
Commission.  And so we've created a Consumer Policy 15
Division within the FCC.16
Of course, we have -- we've always had our 17
Disabilities Rights Office, which we like to say 18
started as a task force, and now it's a driving force,19
to what we do here at the FCC regarding issues related 20
to people with disabilities.  In addition, we have a 21
division that's dedicated to Consumer Outreach and 22
Inter- Governmental Affairs.  This is the division 23
that actually, I like to say, makes us look the best. 24
They put out all the brochures, all the collateral 25
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materials that consumers need and use, and you all 1
will use that explains what the Commission does.  It 2
takes some of those complicated complex issues and 3
breaks it down to something that is bite-size that 4
consumer, no matter if they follow telecom or not can 5
actually digest and understand.6
In addition, that office also handles 7
Inter- Governmental Affairs, and this is a -- we've 8
traditionally always had Inter-Governmental Affairs at 9
the FCC since, of course, we report to the United 10
States Congress.  And in our role, we decided to 11
increase our efforts in the areas of our federal, 12
state, tribal and local governments, and so we have 13
gone through a major task in the past year trying to 14
develop relationships with many organizations.  Some 15
of you are represented here and others - for example, 16
I see some of my tribal friends over to my left here. 17
And I saw NASUCA - there you are, there.  Our efforts 18
in working toward making sure that we understand how 19
our regulations affect those various entities.  And I 20
like to say that if I have a state person calling me 21
saying they're happy, that means I'm probably going to 22
have a local person calling me saying they're not.  So 23
I know I can't win in this game, but at least if we 24
have the relationships, and we can explain the 25
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rationale that we used to get to a decision, everyone 1
will get hopefully on the same page.2
Now I know, as I can jump back to policy 3
for a second, I know one of my deputies, Margaret 4
Egler will be down later on to talk about some of the 5
consumer-related policy issues that are going on 6
before the Commission, because we wanted you all to 7
have an idea of the landscape that we're looking at 8
here at the FCC.9
Now when we look at Consumer Outreach with 10
the recent war that I guess has not officially ended 11
yet, but we took it upon ourselves to relaunch a 12
military outreach campaign.  And those are the type of 13
things that we do.  We recognize for military 14
outreach, we call it "Calling Home", that so many 15
military personnel were being deployed and they were 16
not -- we had so many people making international 17
calls or long distance calls they weren't necessarily 18
used to doing, and so it was important that we capsule 19
all this information so that consumers could make 20
smart decisions.  And so, particularly those who were 21
protecting our freedoms back abroad and away from 22
their friends and families.  So you'll see programs 23
like that, that sometimes we'll bring to you to ask do 24
you think this will work?  Do you have an idea how we 25
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can get this out into the mainstream?  And we also 1
look to you to help us figure out what some ideas 2
might be that we could share, and we could develop for 3
the American consumer down the road.4
Now I would be remiss if I didn't mention 5
the folks who are on the front line for the FCC and 6
those are the individuals in our Consumer Centers.  7
They take all the consumer complaints.  They take all 8
the consumer inquiries, and we have two centers, one 9
here in Washington and one in Gettysburg, 10
Pennsylvania.  And their task literally is to answer 11
any question that is posed, or take any complaint that 12
is posed by a consumer.  That is not an easy job.  13
There are several members who do this.  We call them 14
CAMS, which stands for Consumer Advisory Mediation 15
Specialists.  They have a very tough job.  Every so 16
often, I won't take a call because I don't have those 17
skills, but I will listen to some of the calls.  And 18
it's amazing what consumers come up with.  And 19
sometimes what we do with that information is we use 20
it to figure out how we should develop an outreach 21
program, or how we should do some type of policy cut 22
based on what consumers are saying, what they're 23
experiencing, be it slamming, be it the issue that 24
Commissioner Abernathy mentioned when she referred to 25
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the parents' page.1
We started hearing consumers say, you 2
know, where do I go to find information what's good 3
for my child to watch on television.  I have a 7 year 4
old niece, so this project was particularly fun for 5
me, and I was watching her one day.  And she came 6
over, and of course, she knows how to turn the 7
television on.  She was watching television and she 8
turned on a particular station which I frequently 9
watch.  And for the first time, one I felt old, 10
because I kept saying she shouldn't be watching this. 11
I realized I love it, but it's not something for a 7 12
year old to watch.  And when you look -- when we 13
release this Parents Portal, as I'm calling it, some 14
time in the next few weeks, it's a way for parents to 15
understand what they can do to help make sure their 16
kids have good enrichment through television.  So 17
we're doing many things like that, and our Consumer 18
Outreach folks will be working very hard with the 19
Commissioner on those areas.20
So we use the information coming into our 21
Consumer Centers in many different ways.  It's an 22
informal process.  The ultimate goal when we receive a 23
complaint into our Consumer Center, sometimes the 24
information does have to go a next level.  We do share 25
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our trends in consumer complaints with our Enforcement 1
Bureau, because it's important that when we see bad 2
actors and some of the carriers in the room, they 3
know, not that they're bad actors, they know what this 4
process is like. I see Mike DelCasino over there 5
looking at me.  Our goal though is to ensure that when 6
we see a trend, we can talk to the carrier and say 7
this is what we're noticing.   Can you solve it before 8
we have to take some type of enforcement action going 9
forward.  And it's been very helpful both to the 10
Commission and to the carrier, and ultimately, to the 11
consumer in the long run.  So we're very proud of what 12
we're doing in our Bureau, and you'll hear more and 13
more about this as you're doing your tenure here on 14
the CAC.15
I wanted to switch now to talk about some 16
of the priorities here at the Commission.  And the 17
Chairman has outlined five particular goals, and I 18
call them -- we have six total, but he has five 19
central goals that are key to what we do here at the 20
Commission.  And a lot of this information, again, is 21
in your packets.22
The first is broadband.  And as we talk 23
about broadband, the FCC's strategic goal for 24
broadband is to establish the regulatory policies that 25
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promote competition, innovation, and investment in 1
broadband services.  You will hear a lot about 2
broadband.  And one of the things that is important to 3
us, particularly as we look at this issue and this 4
revolution that is actually going on right now, is 5
that we want to make sure no consumer is left behind 6
in this particular process of having broadband 7
services.8
Currently right now we have DSL.  You also 9
have cable modem, you have some wireless 10
opportunities, you have some cellular opportunities, 11
and we've recently said that you have some powerline 12
opportunities.  These are all different issues we're 13
going to make sure that we understand how they affect 14
consumers and that's all consumers, consumers living 15
on Indian reservations, consumers that are disabled, 16
consumers who are low income.  So these are issues we 17
want to hear from this body on as we go forward.18
Another priority for the Commission is 19
competition.  And the strategic goal is for 20
competition to support the nation's economy by 21
ensuring that there is a comprehensive and sound 22
competitive framework for communication services.23
It's interesting as we look at this, this 24
particular issue, we look at the long distance market. 25
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Who would have thought 10 years ago that the wireless 1
market would actually be competition to what's going 2
on to the long distance market.  I know I look over at 3
Mike, and he's probably saying we probably didn't4
necessarily want that, but it's working.  And I know I 5
look at some of our wireless folks here and say that 6
it is -- this is exactly what we want.  We want 7
consumers to have as much competition as possible, 8
because we know it does two things. It spurs 9
investment, and it also ensures that consumers get 10
ultimately what they want and need.11
The next is our Spectrum Management.  And 12
in this area, the FCC's strategic goal for spectrum is 13
to encourage the highest and best use of spectrum 14
domestically and internationally in order to encourage 15
the growth and rapid deployment of innovative and 16
effective communications, technologies and services.17
Now when you look at the use of spectrum 18
management, it falls to the area that I was referring 19
to earlier with broadband and our wireless market.  20
You need spectrum to do a lot of that, so we need to 21
make sure we're managing that properly.  We have 22
developed a spectrum task force, and all their 23
information can be found on our website, if you're 24
interested in that, as well.25
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In addition, another goal is media.  And 1
as we look at media, we're in the midst of right now 2
going through a major review of our media rules.  And 3
the FCC's strategic goal for the media is to revise 4
media regulations so that the media ownership rules 5
promote competition, and diversity in a comprehensive, 6
legally sustainable manner, and facilitate the 7
mandated migration to digital modes of delivery.8
Now I emphasize the word "legally", 9
because the courts have said to us you guys got to 10
figure this out, FCC.  You have to figure out how you 11
can legally substantiate your rules regarding some of 12
the broadcast ownership rules that we have in place.  13
And we are currently doing that right now, and we 14
should have some decisions coming out, so I encourage 15
you to monitor that, as well.16
And, of course, our fifth goal, which is 17
not necessarily our last goal, but it's our fifth goal 18
and priority, is Homeland Security.  We learned a lot 19
after September 11th, much like the rest of the world. 20
And one of the things we learned was that we needed a 21
strategic goal that focuses on Homeland Security, that 22
will provide -- and our role is to provide leadership 23
in evaluating and strengthening the nation's 24
communications infrastructure.  When we do this, we've 25
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created two other Federal Advisory Committees, the 1
Network Reliability Interoperability Council, that's a 2
lot to say so we just call it INRIC, and the Media 3
Security and Reliability Council, which is MSRC, and 4
our goal -- we're not too complicated over here.  And 5
our goal with both of these committees, one focuses on 6
telephones and things of that nature and the other 7
focuses on broadcast, is to ensure that we have 8
continuity of service in the situation if we were to 9
have an emergency, so Homeland Security is a very big 10
issue for us.11
Each bureau, each office has a member of 12
their staff who represents that particular entity on 13
the Homeland Security Policy Council that Marsha 14
MacBride oversees.  My designee is my deputy for 15
Consumer Affairs and Outreach and Inter-Governmental 16
Affairs is Chris Monteith.  And Chris is in the back. 17
I just want her to stand up real quickly.  Chris, 18
stand up so people know who you are.  Chris handles a 19
lot of our outreach efforts, our state efforts and, of 20
course, our Homeland Security efforts on behalf of the 21
bureau, and so I encourage you to get to know Chris as 22
the day goes on.23
And I said earlier that there are five, 24
but really there are six goals.  The other is DTV, or 25
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digital television.  And we are in the process right 1
now of going through a digital television migration 2
effort, and by the end of 2007, we plan to have 3
digital television across the country.  It's important 4
that we work to ensure consumers know about this 5
migration, know about this transition, and know why 6
it's happening, and so we are in the process of 7
working with our colleagues in the Media Bureau to 8
figure out how we roll out a strategy to work with 9
consumers, and also the National Association of 10
Broadcasters over here, to make sure consumers are 11
aware of what's going on in this transition, and how 12
it will affect them moving forward.  So those are some 13
-- those are the top priorities here at the 14
Commission.  We have a lot going on.  It's going to be 15
a very, very busy year for us, as you might imagine, 16
and we are very excited about all the activities that 17
we have on our agenda.18
Now I want to emphasize that the CAC is 19
something that our bureau is very proud to be involved 20
in, and we consider working with this Advisory Group 21
to be crucial to our own operation.  We need to hear 22
from you as often as possible.  I encourage you not 23
just to wait for this meeting to occur for you to 24
communicate with the Commission.  I know some of the 25
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other -- as I look around the room, I see some in my 1
office, probably more than others.  I see Claude over 2
there, and I meet with Claude regularly about 3
disabilities issues.  We want to make sure that you 4
know that you have an avenue into this Commission, not 5
just on this body, so please take advantage of that.6
And with that, I want to say thanks again 7
for your participation.  I know all of you are 8
volunteers in this effort, and you're taking time out 9
of your very busy schedules, and I wish you all the 10
best for your service on the CAC.  So thank you very 11
much, and have a good meeting.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  Will you take questions, 13
Dane, if we have questions.14
MR. SNOWDEN:  Sure.15
CHAIR ROOKER:  Does anyone have a question 16
for Dane?  Yes, Mike.  Could we get the microphone 17
there?  Just a moment.18
MR. DUKE:  This is Mike Duke.19
MR. SNOWDEN:  Hi, Mike.20
MR. DUKE:  Are we working?  Yes.  Okay. 21
This is Mike Duke.  What -- as the Commission seeks to 22
both hear from consumers and to regulate the various 23
licensees, and media and so forth that they're in 24
charge of overseeing, where do you see the balance?25
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MR. SNOWDEN:  You're referring to the 1
Media Ownership Rules?2
MR. DUKE:  Well, no.  I'm referring to --3
you know, the Commission has regulatory authority over 4
anyone who holds an FCC license for whatever a license 5
is required for.  How is that role of being the 6
regulator balanced against the role of being -- of 7
seeking consumer input?8
MR. SNOWDEN:  Well, everything we do we 9
seek consumer input.  The FCC -- we are proud that all 10
of our rule makings are open to the public.  11
Everything we do -- we have something called ECFS, 12
which stands for Electronic Comment Filing System.  We 13
also have something called "ECFS Express".  Again, we 14
try not to deviate too much from what works.  And ECFS 15
Express is a tool that is used for the -- I call it 16
beyond the beltway consumer that is not necessarily 17
familiar with how to make an official comment within 18
-- with the Commission but they want to -- they've 19
heard we're looking at a proceeding.  They can go to 20
that on our web, and make a comment.  That is one 21
avenue that we hear from consumers.22
The other, of course, is through our 23
outreach efforts that we do.  No matter if it's 24
holding fora, which we do periodically across the 25
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country, and office members of my staff going out and 1
holding a meeting, or the meetings that we take.  The 2
Commission is open.  And one of the misnomers about 3
the FCC that I hear from time to time is that only the 4
lobbyist come into the FCC.5
My office is -- my meeting schedule is 6
full of people who are coming into the FCC that are 7
not necessarily lobbyists in the traditional "K Street 8
Lobbyists" as we call it.  There are consumer 9
advocates that come in, and we want to encourage that. 10
And the Commissioners, and the Chairmen and their 11
staffs, they encourage that, as well.  So it's 12
important that individuals continue to come and meet 13
with members of the FCC, so how do we strike that 14
balance?  We already have struck that balance in 15
essence, and that is, we are constantly hearing from 16
consumers, not just the ways I just mentioned, but 17
also through our consumer center.  That's another 18
vehicle that we use, because we look at that 19
information to assess trends to understand this is 20
what's going on in the landscape with Mr. and Mrs. 21
Smith, so to speak, of using telecom services and 22
products, so it's important that as we go forward, we 23
make sure that no door is shut, that consumers know 24
that we're here.  And that's one of the challenges 25
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that we have in my bureau is to make sure that 1
consumers across America know they can contact the 2
FCC.3
CHAIR ROOKER:  Debra.4
MS. BERLYN: You mentioned that you watch 5
for trends at your Complaint Center, and then you 6
communicate those trends to the Enforcement Bureau.  7
Is there a mechanism for this Advisory Council being 8
apprised of various trends in terms of complaints, not 9
so much about individual carriers, but more in terms 10
of we're seeing an increase in this type of complaint, 11
or here's even a new situation that seems to be 12
arising in terms of complaints.13
MR. SNOWDEN:  Right.  That's a great 14
question, and absolutely.  One of the things that we 15
do do, in addition to sharing this information on a 16
real-time basis with our colleagues in the Enforcement 17
Bureau who do an excellent job of enforcing our rules, 18
we also work toward -- we release this information 19
quarterly on some of the major trends that we're 20
seeing across the country, in all of the various 21
industries, be it the telephony side, both wireless 22
and wire line, and also in the broadcast side.  23
Everything we do here at the Commission where we can 24
receive a complaint, we make sure that information in 25
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terms of the trends is released.  And that is 1
information that is on our website.  If you go to the 2
Consumer and Governmental Affairs page, on the 3
left-hand side, at the bottom left-hand side you'll 4
see the most recent reports that we have released.  We 5
will continue to do that.  This Committee obviously 6
can have that information.7
In addition, part of our outreach efforts, 8
we have some -- we have a division or a branch called 9
the "Consumer Publications Branch", and they are 10
tasked with putting out alerts, putting out fact 11
sheets.  And one of the things they do, what they do 12
so well is that when we see an issue brewing in 13
telecommunications somewhere, we make sure we get 14
those alerts out through our CGB news outlets, through 15
our website, and through the press, that this is an 16
issue that consumers should be aware of.17
I know, thanks to Shirley, I have gone on 18
her show several times to talk about some of these 19
trends so that we cannot just take the reactive role, 20
we also take the proactive role to make sure we reach 21
out to consumers, as well.  So that information is 22
available, and we will make sure that you all have 23
that.  We can put that in your packets the next time, 24
or also you can go on the website and get it as soon 25
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as you get back.1
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Susan Palmer.2
MS. MAZRUI:  Susan Palmer from Cingular 3
Wireless.  I was just wondering if we could have 4
someone from the Publication Bureau come to one of our 5
meetings, because I think it's wonderful that they 6
take proactive means in terms of educating the public. 7
A lot of the information is extremely helpful.  8
Unfortunately, it's not in accessible formats always, 9
and I think that there's perhaps a lack of 10
understanding of the importance that, you know, in 11
terms of information, it's probably comparable to 12
having stairs to the building and saying you can bring 13
up a ramp because Brian Millin can put them in 14
accessible formats, so there's a means.  But it really 15
is somewhat offensive, and it's probably turning 16
people away unnecessarily, when really it's a really 17
good job that they're doing in terms of information.  18
So I'm hoping that perhaps that can come to some 19
follow-up meeting.20
MR. SNOWDEN:  I will definitely ask 21
members of our outreach staff to come and speak to 22
this group.  However, I don't want to wait that long. 23
If there's something that we're not doing that we 24
should be doing, I want to know today so we can solve 25
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that particular issue.1
We do have a 504 Requirement which we are 2
very proud that we take seriously, and that is to 3
ensure that it's accessible.  We just recently 4
released our 504 Handbook for our Commission Staff.  5
This is an internal document but we've made it public, 6
so that other agencies will also follow our lead and 7
do the exact same thing.8
If it's on our web, it should be 9
accessible.  If it's not, I want to know about it, and 10
we'll make that change immediately.  I know if there 11
is a request for something that is made, for example, 12
may not be already made accessible, Brian Millin and 13
his wonderful skills will make it and get it out to 14
that consumer.  I think what I'm hearing from you is 15
that we need to make sure we do that on the front end 16
versus the back end, and I will -- if there's a bigger 17
issue, please don't hesitate to let me know.18
CHAIR ROOKER:  Susan, do you have a 19
follow-up?  Okay.  All right.  Do we have any other 20
questions for Dane?  Yes, David.21
MR. SNOWDEN:  I haven't been on your show, 22
David, but members of my staff have.23
MR. HOROWITZ:   Oh, yeah.  We use people 24
from the Commission all the time, because it's the 25
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only way really to explain this stuff, is to have a 1
Commissioner involved, and I'm delighted to be able to 2
do it.  But one of the things I want to ask you about 3
is some of the things that have been presented are 4
really very positive going straightforward.5
I work a lot with senior citizens, and 6
what I find the biggest problem with senior citizens 7
is communicating to them in a way that they can 8
understand it.  And I'm not talking about simplicity, 9
I'm talking about explanation.  And when you get into 10
television and trying to program television for senior 11
citizens, you're really sort of kicking a wall because 12
when it was announced several years ago that the FCC 13
was going to be able to get into this area, there were 14
a dearth of people going out there trying to start 15
senior programs.  The most successful one, I think, 16
the most successful senior television that's on is the 17
stuff that the AARP does, because it's very 18
informational.  They're really not selling anything 19
except information to an enormous audience.  But then 20
these other people who were getting in were some large 21
television stations, small televisions, local 22
television stations, whatever, who were getting into 23
programs that were strictly advertising for senior 24
citizens.  And the quality was awful.  The oversight 25
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in terms of what was being advertised for them to buy 1
was -- there was no oversight.  It was just a bunch of 2
people who were coming in and paying for time to do 3
it.  And with a challenge like that, how do you get 4
together a group of people that are going to really go 5
out and investigate what is needed?  And how are you 6
going to get the money to be able to put a station on 7
the air that's going to be able to deliver the 8
plethora of stuff that people need to know about?9
I find that seniors are so at a loss in 10
terms of, first of all, reading their telephone bills 11
every month.  You know, we must get I'd say three to 12
five hundred inquiries a month about what does this 13
mean on my telephone bill?  And, obviously, we try to 14
answer that on our Internet site, on the Fight Back 15
site, but it gets to the point where it's just 16
overwhelming because of all the unbundling that's been 17
done in this area.  So when I look at something 18
simplistic like let's get something for the seniors on 19
television, I say well, first of all, how are you 20
going to communicate with them?  I mean, I know you 21
can have different groups, community groups and also 22
federal groups, and you could use other groups that 23
are out there.  The AARP is notably the largest of all 24
of them, but it still doesn't seem to work.  It 25
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doesn't seem to work, and the complaints get heavier, 1
and heavier, and heavier, particularly in the telecom 2
area.3
MR. SNOWDEN:  I think this is a perfect 4
body to tackle that issue, and that's exactly why we 5
have everyone here.  And as I look around the room, we 6
have NAB, and we have AARP, and we have you raising 7
the issue.  I suggest you all get together and try to 8
help us solve that particular issue.9
Now I should caution you that we don't 10
regulate content, and we cannot regulate content.  11
There are some Constitutional issues with that, and so 12
we're not going to get into that.  But I think this is 13
a great issue that should be tackled by this body.14
We recognize clearly when we talk with 15
members who are members of the AARP or other 16
individuals, no matter if it's a young person or not, 17
or senior, we recognize that they have challenges 18
reading their telephone bills.  We get over a million 19
calls to our Consumer Center each year asking 20
questions such as I don't understand this on my 21
telephone bill.  And it's important that we begin to 22
explain that.  That's why our Publications Branch has 23
wonderful information about how to read your telephone 24
bill.  We also have it on our website, as well.25
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We are taking those steps.  If there's 1
more that can be done, we want to know about it.  But 2
again, we need some ideas.  We, of course, are 3
constrained by resources, but that doesn't mean that 4
this body can't come up with somewhat different ideas 5
that maybe collectively with various organizations we 6
can roll out a strategy and work together.7
MR. HOROWITZ:  Well, I think it's very 8
important.  This is the first group that I've ever 9
been involved with that represents government, 10
business and the consumer area where you can sit down 11
and discuss things, because in the past, I always felt 12
that the consumer was considered -- the consumer 13
groups and the advocates were continued to be the 14
enemy, and business never wanted to really talk to 15
them, which is untrue.  And you never get business, 16
government and the consumer groups together.  This, to 17
me, is a real breakthrough to have a group like this 18
because you can be able to express an opinion, and 19
also get feedback from the companies.20
But just on that one issue, that one issue 21
of the telephone bills, it's been around since before 22
the Telco Act.  It's been around forever in terms of 23
people wondering where is our money going.  And some 24
of the things that are being done on local and states 25
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now, as far as their local organizations are 1
concerned, state organizations, is requiring to print 2
certain things on the back in four point type.  You 3
can't differentiate between the taxes and what they're 4
for because the abbreviations are there.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  David, I think we should 6
probably safe this --7
MR. HOROWITZ:  No, I just want to conclude 8
this.  I just want to conclude this if I could, 9
Shirley, because it's important.  And what I'm saying, 10
the issue has been around.  When President Clinton got 11
into office, he promised a lot of things, and one of 12
the things he said he was going to do is to make sure 13
that everything that people get out of the government 14
is written in simple English.  Well, that never 15
happened.  But one of the areas that was singled out 16
was in big business, you know, the complaints about 17
not being able to read your telephone bills, aside 18
from not being able to read the text and understand 19
the laws that are passed.20
Now I want to get into that and the 21
freedom that we're entitled to in this country.  But I 22
think if you're going to take on an issue, it has to 23
be taken on also with this Committee and with members 24
of Congress who are capable of being able to write up 25
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some bill or something, not to regulate the fact that 1
you're in there and you have to say certain things but 2
to have guidelines.3
There was supposed to be a telephone or 4
Telephony Bill of Rights that came out, and all it 5
basically did was to serve the interests of the RBOCs 6
and some of the other telcos out there.  It never 7
really served the public's interest, so where do you 8
go with that, if I come to you and I ask you that 9
question, where do we go?10
MR. SNOWDEN:  Well, I think you go to this 11
Committee.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  That's why I was going to 13
say, I think some of the issues that you're raising 14
are things that we'd be more appropriately discussing 15
this afternoon when we get into our goals and 16
objectives for our working group, so anyway, thank 17
you.18
MR. HOROWITZ:  Okay.  Good.19
CHAIR ROOKER:  Dane, thank you --20
MR. SNOWDEN:  Let me actually make one 21
more comment.22
CHAIR ROOKER: Sure.23
MR. SNOWDEN:  I think, and David actually 24
brought this up about the make-up of this body is very 25
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rare, I think, as you said, that we would have 1
industry, we would consumer groups, we would have 2
various stakeholders at the table at one time.  That 3
was not by mistake.4
At one point last year, I was asked -- I 5
mean, I was doing a question and answer session for 6
the former Committee that was here, why do we have 7
industry on this group?  And my response was what the 8
Chairman said to me, I want industry on there.  I want 9
every single type of stakeholder we possibly can have 10
on this Committee, because this is how things can get 11
done.  We don't want anyone to work in a vacuum, and 12
that is why we see the various myriad of stakeholders 13
on this particular body, because you all know what the 14
issues are from your point of view.15
As you raise issues about reading your 16
telephone bill, we have carriers in this room who can 17
address what they are doing, or what they may not be 18
able to do right here, so we can solve this issue.  So 19
I think this Committee will be very good to the 20
Commission and to itself by having that healthy 21
debate, and keeping the door open for all discussions 22
to happen on both sides.23
CHAIR ROOKER:  Dane, thank you so much for 24
your time.  We really appreciate it.   We have to talk 25
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about logistics and all of that sort of thing, and I' 1
going to turn the microphone over to Scott Marshall.2
MR. MARSHALL:  Thank you, Shirley.  Good 3
morning.  Hello to the returning members, and hello to 4
new members, and I look forward to meeting you all 5
personally.  I sort of feel like I know you already 6
since I led the team that looked at the hundred 7
applications for membership on this Committee, so we 8
certainly have become acquainted, at least on paper.  9
And sometimes via e-mail or over the phone.  I look 10
forward to really putting a person with that content.11
I hope I'm not too late with this 12
information for some of you.  We just got carried away 13
with events this morning, but a few housekeeping 14
matters.  Rest rooms are just outside the door to my 15
right, the doors that you came in, down a short 16
corridor, and immediately to your left on the left.  17
It sounds more complicated than it really is, but 18
they're not far away at all.  Similarly, telephones 19
are out in this main corridor right outside the 20
Commission Hearing Room, should you need those.21
We have a full agenda today.  I'm really 22
excited about the fact that we will be able to hear 23
from Margaret Egler this morning on potential issues 24
that you may want to consider getting into as a 25
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Committee.  And we'll be taking that topic up in the 1
afternoon, so I just urge you to start thinking about 2
that in terms of what issues we should be addressing. 3
We don't have to address them all at this one 4
meeting, but it would be great at the end of the day 5
if we were able to establish a working group that 6
would -- or two, or three that would be able to start 7
the process of getting all the stakeholders, as Dane 8
has said, sitting down and discussing these issues so 9
that we can bring recommendations back to this Full 10
Committee, which in turn then is empowered to give 11
recommendations to the Commission.  But Shirley and I 12
will be talking more about that shortly, and about our 13
whole operating guidelines for the Committee as we go 14
forward from here. Shirley.15
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  It's the minute you 16
waited for.  It's break time.  We're giving you a 17
break of three extra minutes, if you would be back at 18
quarter of 11, please.  We will start promptly at 19
quarter of 11, won't we?  Thank you.20
(Whereupon, the proceeding in the 21
above-entitled matter went off the record at 10:26:54 22
a.m. and went back on the record at 10:53:11 a.m.)23
CHAIR ROOKER:  Scott has just reminded me 24
that I haven't done my "I'll-get-the hook" speech yet 25
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to you all.  I'll get the hook, right?  Well, I think 1
in view of the dialogue and the conversations that 2
we've had this morning, I think this is going to be a 3
wonderful group.  We've got lots of ideas and 4
interests and things that we're going to be working 5
on, and it's kind of fun. But like any group, we have 6
to look at what guides us, our guidelines, our 7
protocols, our operating procedures, and some of our 8
goals, so Scott and I are going to take a few minutes 9
and talk about those.  And I think you have -- is it 10
in their packet?11
In your packet is a sheet called the 12
"Goals and Objectives of the Consumer Advisory 13
Committee".  If you want to just take a look at them, 14
and we'll just kind of go through them, and give you 15
some information on kind of what we're planning on 16
doing over the next two years, besides having fun and 17
eating too many muffins for breakfast.  If you found 18
it, it's called "The Goals and Objectives."19
We're known as "The Committee".  Doesn't 20
that make you feel good, "The Committee."  You saw 21
that, the "X-Files."  We get around.22
These are some of the things that we're 23
looking to accomplish.  Submission of recommendations 24
to the Commission in connection with at least three of 25
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the open FCC proceedings.  And this is very ambitious, 1
because this is a lot of work if we're going to 2
accomplish these.  We worked very hard last year.  I'm 3
not sure that we met all of these goals.  Did we, 4
Scott?  Just about.  We came close.5
We've changed things a little bit since 6
last year.  We started out with the idea of having 7
sub-committees, and we found that that was a rather 8
rigid way to proceed, so we basically ended up the 9
year deciding that the -- or the two years, deciding  10
that one of the best ways for us to work would be with 11
working groups on issues that you all decide, you 12
know.  And certainly, this morning we've heard a lot 13
of things that are probably going to be working groups 14
that you will address.  And we're not limited in the 15
number of working groups, or the issues.  We're only 16
limited in the fact that we need to address the issues 17
that are, in fact, under the purview of the FCC.18
We will try to submit at least one 19
Committee recommendation regarding the Commission's 20
processes or procedures.  And, for example, one of the 21
things that we did last year was we had quite a bit of 22
information on the complaint process, the consumer 23
complaint process.  We had a presentation from the 24
complaint handling office, and we came up with some 25
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suggestions on how it could be better, how it could be 1
more accessible.  And I think the -- we actually had a 2
working group on that.  Who chaired the working group? 3
Is anyone here who worked on it?  Claude did it.  4
Yeah, yeah.  So Claude worked on the complaint process 5
to make sure that it was accessible, that what they 6
were doing met the needs of consumers of a very 7
diverse group of consumers.  And I think we came up 8
with something that was useful and recommended it to 9
the Commission.10
At least one recommendation to the 11
Committee regarding the Commission's Consumer Outreach 12
activities.  Now I think certainly Susan's suggestion 13
about the accessibility of publications, and having 14
the publications group, we've not done that, to have 15
that outreach group speak to us, I don't believe.  16
Have we, Scott?  No, we have not.  And so -- not 17
officially, so that will be something that we can 18
consider to look at.  And I'm only making that as a 19
suggestion.  Believe me, this is a wide open process 20
here.21
Also, at least one recommendation from the 22
Committee regarding new issues with the Committee, 23
which we believe should be addressed by the FCC.  Now 24
you're going to hear some of the issues that are 25
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pending in our next presentation from Margaret Egler, 1
some of the things that are before the FCC, and that 2
may be part of it, but also to looking at trends, and 3
what are some of the things that we see coming up, 4
some of the issues of accessibility, for example.  So 5
at any rate, there's a lot of room for us to do some 6
interesting and constructive things.7
At least one meeting with the Chairman and 8
other FCC Commissioners, Senior Staff and so on.  Last 9
year, and the Chairman apologizes for being unable to 10
be here this morning.  He's been extremely faithful in 11
coming to our meetings, and one of our meetings he 12
spent I think at least a half an hour talking and 13
taking questions from the Committee, which was a very 14
productive thing.15
We also -- at most of our meetings, we 16
will have Commissioners here who will give you a 17
chance to address them, to ask them questions and so 18
on.  Commissioner Abernathy this morning I think was 19
on a tight schedule, and didn't have time to take 20
questions, but normally we do have a Q & A process 21
that we can give you access to them, as well.  So I 22
think you will find that there's going to be a lot of 23
people from the FCC, the Commissioners as well as some 24
of their key, key staff people, like Martha MacBride 25
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being here this morning.  She's certainly one of the 1
leaders in the FCC, very, very great supporter of th 2
is Committee.3
In addition, at the end of the year we 4
will submit an annual report.  We will.  We will.  5
We're going to do work to make sure we do this.  And 6
so consequently, those are some of the things that 7
we're going to be looking at accomplishing as we go 8
through the next two years, and that's a lot.9
Now our first meeting after this one, the 10
next meeting is in July, which means we've only got a 11
two month window to getting ourselves into gear and 12
getting going.  And part of that has to do with the 13
process in terms of getting the members selected to 14
this Committee, so we've got a rather tight window 15
there, but we do have a good bit of time between July 16
and November.  But I think certainly, our goal should 17
be in July to have some recommendations, or at least 18
some ideas of things that we want to recommend after 19
our July meeting, so we will hope to accomplish that.20
Now do you have any questions for me in 21
terms of what we're trying to accomplish?  Yes, Susan.22
MS. MAZRUI:  One of the things that's been 23
very helpful when we're working with our Advisory 24
Committee is to have a list of action items, and then 25
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follow-up, and to keep a chart of that ongoing.  And 1
that way we can follow -- you know, the amazing thing 2
is you get a lot more done than you think.3
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yes.4
MS. MAZRUI:  But it also helps us to 5
revisit items that may have slipped in the urgency of 6
other issues.  And I was wondering if we could have 7
that for this meeting, as well, so that we have action 8
items, and then follow-ups, and it's just kept as a 9
master plan.  At the end of the year, it really helps 10
with the report, as well.11
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  I think that's a 12
great idea.  We actually have information on the FCC's 13
website too, about what we've done over the last two 14
years, so maybe we could even get that put out in 15
printed form for those of you who didn't see it.  But 16
Scott did send you information on what we've done, so 17
now let's look at what we need to do by keeping -- and 18
I think that's a great suggestion, to give us a 19
checklist, and we can see our accomplishments of what 20
we're doing, so we can start developing that as we go 21
through the day.  Does that make sense?  Okay.22
Do I have any other comments or -- yes, 23
Larry.24
MR. GOLDBERG:  I had a question as to how, 25
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as the next meeting starts coming down our way in 1
July, the agenda is shaped for each individual 2
meeting?  It was sort of a mystery to me in the last 3
round, sometimes there'd be presentations on various 4
issues, and sometimes there was a notion that more 5
subcommittee meetings were needed.  I'm not exactly 6
sure how that agenda does get set.7
CHAIR ROOKER:  You mean in terms of the 8
agenda items?9
MR. GOLDBERG:  Yes.10
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, the first agenda item 11
that we've done here, I have to say that we mainly did 12
that on our own, because we were trying to give 13
everybody -- bring everybody who hadn't been on the 14
Committee before up to speed with everyone else, in 15
terms of an overview of the FCC.  But what we did last 16
year was we had telephone meetings, and look, we 17
welcome input on agenda items, but we had telephone 18
meetings with the subcommittee chairs, and from there 19
developed some of the items.  Other people gave us 20
input, but that's what this group is about, is input 21
from all of you.  So if you will let us know what you 22
want on the agenda, and if it's possible, we'll do it.23
Many of the things that we had on our 24
agendas last two years came from suggestions that came 25
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from the group, and we would decide on something today 1
that we wanted to do in July, and follow-through on 2
that, as long as it was feasible.  And, of course, 3
keeping in mind as long as it comes under the purview 4
of the FCC, and that's why we have some of the people 5
coming today, so that we understand what we can and 6
can't do in terms of this Committee.  So any other 7
questions?8
MR. MARSHALL:  Larry, just one more 9
comment on the agenda.  The agenda starts to sort of 10
fold together about six weeks out from a meeting, so 11
at any point, you know, prior to that time, I would 12
just encourage anyone to e-mail Shirley or myself with 13
those ideas.  Shirley and I are in constant 14
communication, probably she wishes it were less, but 15
that certainly is the way that the agenda, as Shirley 16
has indicated, has been put together in the past, and 17
I imagine we'll continue that practice this go-around.18
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Any other questions 19
on goals and objectives?  Okay.  If not -- okay, just 20
a minute.  David.21
MR. POEHLMAN:  This is David Poehlman of 22
the American Council for the Blind.  I'm sorry.  My 23
question is, you know, since you're talking about the 24
agenda, as part of the evolution of the agenda, would 25
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it be possible to get a draft of the agenda early 1
enough for people to say, you know, I'd like to add 2
this or add that, instead of thinking about adding 3
things in a vacuum or whatever?  Because I know that 4
you guys take a tremendous pile of suggestions and try 5
to weave them down into something that's, you know, 6
that's applicable for the meetings, but that might be 7
helpful as part of the process, if we could do that.8
CHAIR ROOKER:  I believe we did.  Didn't 9
we before send out tentative agendas?  I think --10
MR. MARSHALL:  We sent out a preliminary 11
agenda with the advanced materials packet.  And we can 12
make changes from that for the final agenda.  But a 13
preliminary agenda does go out with the advance 14
materials, and certainly, you know, comments on that 15
are welcome.16
CHAIR ROOKER:  I think we do have some --17
do we have some restriction, Scott, in terms of us 18
having to do a public notice.  Does that include the 19
agenda?20
MR. MARSHALL:  I'm sorry?21
CHAIR ROOKER:  Does the public -- he was 22
talking when I was talking.  Can you imagine anybody 23
doing that?  What was the question?  Do we have 24
restrictions on changes to the agenda after it's gone 25
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into -- do we give public notice on the agenda?1
MR. MARSHALL:  We do.  That's true, and we 2
can't sort of go too far afield from our agenda that 3
we publish in the Federal Register, which has to be 4
published 15 days prior to our public meeting.  So 5
there's a little bit of a restriction there.6
Paula Silberthau, who's from our office, 7
who's General Counsel, who keeps me honest on how to 8
run a Federal Advisory Committee, will be here this 9
afternoon, but that's a fairly flexible requirement.  10
But it is a notice requirement.  We can't, you know, 11
put a totally new item on the agenda after we've 12
published in the Federal Register.13
CHAIR ROOKER:  So keeping that in mind 14
when you're thinking about it.  Okay.  Now I'm going 15
to turn it over to you.16
MR. MARSHALL:  Okay.  On protocols, all 17
right.  Just a couple of quick things I forgot to 18
mention earlier, and then I'll talk a little bit about 19
the protocols document that was distributed in your 20
advance materials.21
This session, may I remind you, is being 22
televised on the Internet, which means Mark's telecom 23
students in Oklahoma are going to have an assignment 24
he tells me in July to watch us all, but wanted you to 25
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be aware of that so in case you want to wave to your 1
mother or something, you be discreet about it.2
About your bios, I've been receiving your 3
corrections on those, and we're happy to make those 4
corrections.  If you have any other additions or 5
revisions, if you could get them to me in about a week 6
or so, that would be great. Then we'll get another set 7
of those bios out to you in corrected form.8
We're also -- now turning to the protocols 9
document.  One of the issues that came up during the 10
prior Committee, and I'm sure you can understand that 11
it's an important issue, is the matter of attendance. 12
We have such limited time together, that your 13
attendance at each meeting is vital.  And realizing, 14
of course, that we all have busy schedules and what 15
have you, if you're not able to attend, please do send 16
an alternate.  You were asked during the application 17
process to give us an alternate to represent you in 18
such situations.19
I am preparing that list.  If we get it 20
done by this afternoon, I'll circulate it before we 21
leave today.  Otherwise, I'll send it to you via the 22
e-mail so that we can update that information, and in 23
those situations where we don't have an alternate, 24
that you could give us that information.  Yes, sir.  25
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Yes, Mr. Duke.1
MR. DUKE:  I was under the impression just 2
from the preliminary material that the alternates were 3
handled on a per meeting basis.4
MR. MARSHALL:  They can be.5
MR. DUKE:  Okay.  I did not send one, 6
because I --7
MR. MARSHALL:  It's not carved in stone, 8
but we have had an alternates list in the past, so 9
that the hope is that there would be some continuity 10
from meeting to meeting, that the same alternate would 11
be representing you, and that you would have 12
communicated with that person about what we're doing 13
and all that sort of stuff.14
MR. DUKE:  So if we didn't send you an 15
alternate, we need to do that.16
MR. MARSHALL:  Yes.17
MR. DUKE:  Okay.18
MR. MARSHALL:  Yes, we'll appreciate that.19
CHAIR ROOKER:  Scott, there's a question.20
MR. MARSHALL:  Question, sure.21
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yes, Rich has a question.22
MR. MARSHALL:  You have three questions, 23
Mr. Ellis?  Okay.24
MR. ELLIS:  I'll reserve my two later 25
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questions for later in the day.1
MR. MARSHALL:  Okay.2
MR. ELLIS:  But as someone who was on the 3
last Committee, I want to play schoolmarm and kind of 4
echo what you're saying about attendance at the 5
meetings.  It also means staying from the start of the 6
meeting to the end of a meeting.7
MR. MARSHALL:  Thank you.  That was going 8
to be my next subject, so go right ahead, Rich. Go 9
ahead and say it all.10
MR. ELLIS:  It was very frustrating the 11
last meeting that as the meeting went on the numbers 12
went down and down, so if we had an important item to 13
discuss, you made sure it got discussed the first 14
thing in the morning, because you might not have a 15
quorum by the end of the day.  And it's very helpful 16
to have everybody there for the entire day.  I put 17
that plug in, so if you're going to come, come for the 18
entire day.19
MR. MARSHALL:  And Mr. Ellis chaired a 20
working group that contributed to these protocols last 21
Committee, and he's right.  If at all possible, we 22
would like you to stay the entire day, because we do 23
do programming late in the afternoon.  We sometimes 24
even have speakers late in the afternoon, and are 25
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making policy-related decisions at that point in time. 1
So please do keep that in mind, and if all of this 2
becomes a problem for you, let's discuss it because we 3
really want this to be a successful Committee, and we 4
want you to be a successful contributing part of it.  5
So if a problem does arise in any of these areas, 6
please talk to us.7
CHAIR ROOKER:  We have a couple of 8
questions.9
MR. MARSHALL:  Okay.  Sure.  Go ahead.10
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Don.11
MR. SNOOP:  A question on the timing of 12
the actual meetings themselves.13
MR. MARSHALL:  Yes.14
MR. SNOOP:  Friday, for those of us that 15
have to drive home on Friday night, leaving here at 16
4:30, 5:00 is -- any days besides Friday good days for 17
meetings?18
MR. MARSHALL:  Let me tell you the 19
rationale.  It's a difficult situation for a lot of 20
folks.  The reason why we generally have these 21
meetings on Fridays or Mondays is in order to give the 22
people from out-of-town the opportunity to have a 23
Saturday night stay-over so they could get the cheaper 24
airline ticket.25
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MR. SNOOP:  That makes sense.1
MR. MARSHALL:  That's one of the major 2
reasons for this.  The meeting in November will be on 3
Thursday, unfortunately.  And part of the problem 4
also, is this space, this Commission Meeting Room, 5
gets booked almost a year in advance.  And it is 6
sometimes difficult, especially if we change dates, to 7
really lock in another date and have it available to 8
us all day.  So I appreciate --9
MR. SNOOP:  Thank you.  You answered my 10
question.11
MR. MARSHALL:  I appreciate your problem, 12
but I'm not sure I could help you much with the 13
traffic. Vernon, go ahead.14
MR. JAMES:  Thank you, Scott.15
MR. MARSHALL:  Sure.  Hi.  How are you?  16
It's good to see you again.17
MR. JAMES:  Good to see you too.  Just 18
want to reiterate and emphasize Richard's statement 19
about leaving early.  It was very frustrating to be a 20
part of a group that was working on issues, and during 21
the afternoon have those members walk out.  Then they 22
would make comments on their return meeting.23
CHAIR ROOKER:  We're going to lock the 24
doors this time, Vernon.  I think we'll lock the 25
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doors.  They won't open until 4:30.  Maybe bathroom 1
break but that will be escorted, so -- I think Debra 2
had her hand up.3
MR. MARSHALL:  Go ahead, Debra.4
MS. BERLYN:  A very quick question.5
MR. MARSHALL:  Sure.6
MS. BERLYN:  It may have been in the 7
materials.  I apologize if it already was, but do we 8
have dates of the meetings?9
MR. MARSHALL:  We do, yes.  July 11th, and 10
November 20th.11
MS. BERLYN:  Thank you.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Jim.13
MR. MARSHALL:  Jim, go ahead.  Hi, Jim.14
MR. CONRAN:  Hi, Scott.  Thank you.  A few 15
of us live on the West Coast and have a seven hour 16
flight ahead of us going home on a Friday night, and 17
there's a limited amount of flights to the city that I 18
live in, and so as I sent you a message, I can't stay 19
for any meeting later than 4:15 or I'm stuck here 20
another night.  And as much as I like Washington, I'm 21
here enough that I can't plan on doing that.  And I 22
know David probably has the same dilemma, and I think 23
there's somebody from the State of Washington, so my 24
preference would be to have a working meeting all the 25
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way through lunch and try to get out at 4, which might 1
help the people who have to drive home on a Friday 2
night.  But I have to leave at a certain time, or else 3
I can't get home, and so I just want to be up front 4
about that.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  Susan, you have a comment?6
MS. MAZRUI:  There's some accessibility 7
issues with working through lunch, so I think that 8
would be inadvisable, but perhaps an earlier start 9
would be another alternative.10
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, how do you feel about 11
that?  We could start at 8.  Do it from 8 until 4?12
MR. MARSHALL:  I think we can do that, but 13
I'd have to check.  There are issues about how early 14
people are here in the building, and when we can get 15
in, and all that, so I can't commit to 8:00, but I'll 16
look into it.17
CHAIR ROOKER:  Larry.18
MR. GOLDBERG:  I have the same kind of 19
travel problem.  Since I can only do this as a same 20
day trip, it's I don't think really possible for me to 21
get here at 8 in the morning, when I'm flying in that 22
morning.  But it's, you know, half the people will 23
have that problem, and half will have a different 24
problem.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, if the issue is 1
people staying until 4, we do have public comments 2
that start around 4 or 4:30.  And I respect and 3
understand that this is people giving their time to do 4
it.  Let us address this and see what kind of a 5
solution we can come up with.6
MR. MARSHALL:  And if you have any other 7
suggestions please, you know, because we are aware 8
that it is a difficult issue for some people, so if 9
you have any suggestions about how we might be able to 10
address this, let us know.  And we have had actually 11
some working lunches, as well, but we have not 12
generally done that as matter of course because you 13
all don't have very much time to talk to each other at 14
these meetings.15
Ideally, you know, it would be wonderful 16
if we could have even a two-day meeting, so we'd have 17
more face time together to be able to get some of this 18
work done on a face-to-face basis rather than through 19
e-mail and all the rest, but that's not possible.20
CHAIR ROOKER:  I think one more.  One 21
more.22
MR. MARSHALL:  Okay.  Go ahead.23
CHAIR ROOKER:  Brenda.24
MR. MARSHALL:  Sure.  Hi, Brenda.25
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MS. KELLY-FREY:  Hi, Scott.  Not that the 1
input from the FCC is less important, but I'm 2
wondering have you considered putting the information 3
from the working groups in the morning, and 4
flip-flopping the whole agenda, morning to afternoon, 5
afternoon to morning?6
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, we don't necessarily 7
have the FCC here speaking to us every time, and 8
usually it's a brief time.  And usually if we're 9
having the Commissioners in, they are available more 10
in the morning, so that's kind of a time constraint.  11
But generally, you don't see the day packed with 12
people from the FCC, because we have all other kinds 13
of things that we address.  But we will sit down and 14
talk about this, and figure out what we can -- how we 15
can resolve some of your concerns.  Go ahead, Scott.16
MR. MARSHALL:  Yeah, that is an 17
interesting idea though.  Lastly, and I know Margaret 18
is here, and I'm looking forward to that presentation 19
because Margaret has had a wealth of experience here 20
at the Commission, and knows these issues.  She knows 21
more than I shall ever forget about all this stuff, so 22
I want to get her on here quite quickly.23
I was asked a moment ago about minutes.  24
And yes, we do take minutes of this meeting.  They're 25
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action-oriented minutes, not a verbatim who said what 1
to whom kind of summary.  This is a written transcript 2
that's prepared, and that will be on the website, and 3
we will send you the minutes after each meeting.  I 4
usually don't get the transcript for a good two or 5
three weeks after each meeting, and then I need some 6
time to prepare the minutes from them.  But yes, we do 7
do the minutes, and a transcript is available.8
I think in the interest of time and in the 9
interest of hearing from Margaret, I'll turn it back 10
to you, unless anybody have a final question?  Or we 11
could talk more about this in the afternoon.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yeah, we'll have some time.13
MR. MARSHALL:  Yeah.14
CHAIR ROOKER:  In order for us to be an 15
effective Committee, it's very important that we 16
understand the issues that are pending before the FCC. 17
And I can tell you from past experience, there's no 18
one better to do that function than Margaret Egler, 19
who is the Deputy Bureau Chief for Policy in the 20
Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau.  She's an 21
attorney with extensive experience in the FCC, and the 22
cable industry.  And let's welcome Margaret Egler.23
MS. EGLER:  Thank you very much.  That was 24
very nice, Shirley.  It's nice to see you back.  It's 25
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nice to see a lot of you back, a lot of the new faces, 1
I've actually seen in the past.  I see a couple of 2
people I had phone calls to, so hopefully you'll get a 3
call from me soon.4
One of the things we wanted to talk about 5
today is what's in front of the FCC, that's pending 6
now that affects consumers.  And I think you can 7
easily say that everything that's in front of the FCC 8
affects consumers in one way or an other.  But there's 9
a specific group of proceedings that we have put out, 10
and I just want to talk a little bit about them.  And 11
then I'll talk more specifically about the ones that 12
have originated in our Bureau, and sort of what's 13
going on with them.14
We have a system for public filing called 15
the "Electronic Comment Filing System", or ECFS, and 16
that's been a great system.  It's been a real useful 17
thing for people here in the Commission, and people 18
outside the Commission.  You can now pretty much read 19
any comment anyone else files, and you don't have to 20
come and get it copied.  And it opens it up to 21
everyone outside of Washington, basically.  It's 22
available over the Internet.  And Bill Cline, who is 23
the Director of our Reference Information Center, who 24
is one of the people responsible for that. It's fairly 25
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complicated though, the actual system, because you 1
have to know the docket number, and you have to sort 2
of know whose comment you're looking for, or else 3
you'll get every comment in one docket.  And there are 4
some dockets, for example, the Universal Service 5
Docket, which has thousands and thousands of comments 6
because so much has happened.  That's also true for 7
the TRS docket, you just have hundreds and hundreds of 8
comments, I think it's over a thousand now.  We're 9
actually just working on it now, because there are 10
just so many proceedings.  So we're wondering how can 11
we make this easier for consumers, if they wanted to 12
file, because as we do the consumer rulemakings, we're 13
trying to figure out a way to make it easier to sort 14
of get comments.  You don't have to hire an attorney. 15
You don't have to come to Washington.  And hopefully, 16
you don't even have to mail something to us.17
So what they came up with was something 18
called ECFS Express, and Steve Gorey, who runs the 19
Operation Support System, Office of Support Systems, 20
he's going to be here later to give you a real 21
technical overview of how that works.  But basically, 22
it's on the front page of our website.  You just click 23
on it, and there's a list of proceedings there that we 24
think are ones that, you know, consumers, not 25
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necessarily the industry, not necessarily advocate, 1
you know, groups or trade associations are the most 2
interested in, but things that we'd like to hear from 3
consumers on.  And so we put that up, and these are 4
the proceedings that are actually there now.5
A lot of these, the actual comment period 6
has closed, which means that there's a notice of 7
proposed rulemaking, or a further notice that is out, 8
but for -- and the time period, the 30 or 45 day, or 9
75 day clock has run, but we still accept comments, 10
late filed comments.  Generally, we do try to get a 11
full record, so I'm just going to go through them real 12
quickly.13
The first one, which is one that everybody 14
knows about is receiving broadband over the 15
traditional telephone network.  This is what we refer 16
to as the wireline broadband proceeding that's 17
currently being worked on and active.  There's 18
broadcast ownership, and that's the consolidation of 19
the sort of six different dockets that have to do with 20
radio, TV, newspaper, network, trusts, 21
ownership-to-ownership limits.  That's also on there. 22
Digital television copyright protection, whether we, 23
the FCC, should mandate standards.  E-911 Service, 24
which is whether the rules regarding access to 25
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emergency services should be revised.  Obviously, an 1
important docket.  High speed Internet broadband by 2
your cable company which is, of course, the other big 3
broadband proceeding.  Last February and March we came 4
out with two notices, one was on cable, one was on 5
wireline. This is the cable one.6
Plug-and-play, which is the ability of 7
consumers to plug cable TV into digital TV sets 8
without a set-top box.  That's out for -- that's an 9
open docket right now.  Rural wireless services, and 10
that's the effectiveness of the delivery of service to 11
rural areas.  There are issues raised there.  There's 12
the Spectrum Policy Task Force report, and that's a 13
report, but that's also available for comment.  How to 14
increase the public benefits from use of the spectrum. 15
As more and more people use it, it's our job here at 16
the FCC to make sure correctly serving the public 17
interest.18
The Uniform Complaint Process, and that 19
was something that came out of our Bureau.  And the 20
question was whether or not we should enhance our 21
complaint process, and include non- carriers.  22
Currently, our complaint process is limited to serving 23
complaints and receiving complaints, or receiving 24
responses from carriers, so we only serve carriers 25
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where we receive responses, and the consumer who 1
complained gets that response, as well.2
In the slamming context, it's a little 3
different because we have to do orders on those.  But 4
that's another thing that's available for comment.  5
Your predecessor organization, CDTAC, filed comments 6
in that proceeding, so those are the ones that are out 7
there now, so we encourage any of you, or anyone you 8
know who's interested, to let us know by filing 9
comments.  It's very easy.  You click on whatever 10
proceeding. You don't need to know the docket number,11
and we tried to make it as plain English as we get, as 12
far as what this is actually about.  You just put in 13
your name, you know, who's it from, what your comment 14
is.  It goes -- it is a public record, and that's like 15
everything that's filed with FCC, unless you ask for 16
confidentiality.  It's probably going to be -- it's 17
going to be public, so we have that notice on there so 18
people don't think for some reason, you know, no one 19
else is going to read it.  Once we get it, it's then 20
on the ECFS System, and everybody gets to read it, 21
which is, of course, the whole point.22
But I want to talk today about the ones, 23
the sort of the big -- a couple of the bigger 24
proceedings that are going on and are active currently 25
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in the Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau.  The 1
first one is slamming.  I think we've been getting a 2
lot of press lately.  We've been doing a lot of 3
enforcement for several years on slamming.  Most 4
recently, there is the -- our Enforcement Bureau and 5
the Commission put a 1.2 fine against WebNet for --6
$1.2 million for slamming violations.  The 7
significance of this particular forfeiture is that it 8
was something that we did with 14 states, so I just 9
want to talk a little bit about the slamming process, 10
how it's changed over the last couple of years.11
In November of 2000, rules went into 12
effect that required us, the FCC, when we get a 13
slamming complaint, not just to accept the complaint 14
and serve it on the carrier like we do every complaint 15
we get against a carrier, and receive a response from 16
the carrier, but also to require that the carrier 17
provide information, specific information of whether 18
or not they had the requisite authorization to make  a 19
carrier change.  And there's a whole list of things 20
that they have to sort of say or do that verifies that 21
authorization.  So we have verification rules.  It can 22
either be in the form of a third-party verification 23
tape, which probably you're familiar with if you've 24
changed your phone service recently, or it has to be a 25
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letter of agency, a letter of authorization.  We call 1
it LOA, and that has to have certain pieces of 2
information on it, name, address, the number you want 3
changed, you know, what specific services you want to 4
change, an acknowledgement that this could cost you 5
money, that they may charge you whatever to make the 6
actual physical change.  Those pieces of information. 7
And then the carrier has to send that in to us, and 8
then we have to do an order on these, and these are 9
the individual slamming orders.10
And we've done hundreds and hundreds of 11
these in the last two years.  In particular the last 12
year, we've done close to a thousand.  And the great 13
thing about this is that these rules require that if 14
we find a carrier liable of slamming, that they have 15
to credit or refund money to the consumer.  That 16
wasn't happening in the past.  Often the carriers 17
would sort of, you know, do it just as a goodwill 18
gesture or just to sort of clear up something, but 19
there was no requirement under the rules that they 20
give money back to the consumer.21
The big forfeiture orders, like for 22
example the WebNet one I just mentioned for $1.2 23
million, that's a fine.  When that gets paid, it gets 24
paid to the U.S. Government, so the slamming problem 25
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was so significant that we put in effect these rules, 1
and they have been very successful.2
We've gotten 36 states to also work with 3
us on these rules, and one of the interesting part of 4
the rules is that if the states want to, they can 5
opt-in and administer the rules.  And 36 states have 6
opted-in to administer the rules, along with the 7
District of Columbia and Puerto Rico.  So it's been a 8
great across-the-board enforcement because slamming 9
can happen, obviously with your long distance service, 10
which is what we're all familiar with.  But also now 11
with more competition, with local service, and with 12
the sort of unknown quantity known as interLATA toll, 13
or local toll, which is something that people never 14
are really sure what it is.  And often times, they 15
never really sure who their carrier is.  And they're 16
really not sure who their carrier is once they get 17
slammed.  So that's been the enforcement aspect of 18
slamming.19
We just released an order on 20
reconsideration that was published Friday in the 21
Federal Register, so the time begins to run for 22
certain things.  And in that order on reconsideration, 23
we clarified some things in these rules that I'm 24
talking about, but we also asked for comment.  This 25
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will be put up on ECFS Express hopefully in the next 1
day or two.  We asked for public comment on how should 2
we change the verification requirements.3
There are certain things that we get these 4
tapes back from the companies, and they're not dated, 5
so we don't know what the date is.  We're also not 6
sure what -- if the customer understands when the 7
carrier says do you want to change your intraLATA 8
toll, what does that mean?  If there should be some 9
definition, if the carrier should have to explain it, 10
so the point of this further notice is to continue to 11
fine tune the verification rules, to make sure that 12
people understand what they're doing when they change, 13
or often what happens, you're making the phone call, 14
asking to change your service, but this is likely 15
you're getting a phone call.  A carrier's got a great 16
deal for you.  They're going to tell you all about it, 17
but then they have to make sure that you understand 18
what you're doing, and that's the point of asking 19
these questions, preserving these tapes, and sending 20
them to us when it turns out that you didn't actually 21
want that to happen.  So that's what going on with 22
slamming.23
The second big item we're working on is 24
the Telephone Consumer Protection Act item, and that's 25
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telemarketing.  You probably have heard a good bit 1
about this.  We opened up our proceeding last 2
September.  Basically, the way that it works, the TCPA 3
as we call, it Telephone Consumer Protection Act, was 4
passed in 1991, and gave this Commission overreaching 5
authority to regulate marketing, solicitations that go 6
on using the telephone or fax machine, so in 1992 we 7
created rules.  And those are the rules that you know 8
as the time of day rules, you know, they can only call 9
between 8 and 9.  They can't leave pre-recorded 10
messages unless under certain situations.  There's 11
prohibitions on automatic dialers and that sort of 12
thing.13
We also have the prohibition on faxes.  14
You can't send unsolicited faxes to people without 15
express consent.  We amended, did a reconsideration of 16
those rules in 1995, and then as the, you know, the 17
last couple of years we've seen that it seems the 18
technology may be overtaking some of these rules, and 19
we decided we'd open up a rulemaking.  We've been 20
doing a lot of enforcement, particularly on the fax 21
side, and we've done millions of dollars of forfeiture 22
orders.  So the other thing that the TCPA gives us, is 23
the opportunity, if the FCC chooses, to do a national 24
"Do Not Call List".25
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In 1992, the Commission declined to do 1
that, and so but that's still in the statute, and 2
still was and is a possibility.  We put out our notice 3
of proposed rulemaking in September.  The FTC, which 4
also has authority over telemarketers in terms of, you 5
know, how it's fraud and deceitful advertising, 6
marketing, that sort of thing.  They also have always 7
had a telemarketing sales rule, which is similar to 8
our's in some situations and they came out with 9
proposed rules, and then final rules announcing a 10
national "Do Not Call List", which they hope -- which 11
will go into effect on October 1st.12
So what has then happened, our proceeding 13
remains open, and then as you probably know, what 14
happened is Congress passed a "Do Not Call 15
Implementation Act", which requires us to finish our 16
proceeding within 180 days of that Act, which turned 17
out to be September 7th.  But it also instructs the 18
FCC to maximize consistency with the FTC rules, and it 19
requires us to file a report 45 days after we finish 20
our proceeding, and then annual reports.  And the 21
reports are supposed to talk about how the enforcement 22
is going, and how consistent are the rules.  And to 23
the extent they're not consistent, how are you going 24
to make them consistent?  And so we put out a further 25
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notice in this proceeding in March, basically asking 1
people for comment.  And that comment period closes on 2
May 5th and May 19th.3
The significance of our actions are really 4
the fact that we have jurisdiction over all 5
telemarketing, whether intrastate or interstate, and 6
all industries that are doing it.  The FTC's 7
jurisdiction is limited, first to interstate only, and 8
also they have exceptions in their jurisdiction where 9
they don't regulate common carriers, or airlines, or 10
banks, mortgage companies.  And when you think about 11
it, that's because there are expert agencies 12
regulating a lot of these industries anyway.  For 13
example, we regulate -- but we also regulate everybody 14
else in this particular statute.  And that's why the 15
TCPA is sort of different for us, because our usual 16
regulatees are the media companies, and the phone 17
companies, and it's not usually everybody.  But in 18
this particular situation, we have everybody.19
So in order for the FTC's, for this 20
national "Do Not Call List" to work consistently 21
across the board, we're taking a very hard look at do 22
we need to do a national "Do Not Call List", what do 23
we need to do?  How consistent are we going to make 24
it?25
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The other interesting thing about the TCPA 1
is that it gives the states a big, big role.  It 2
basically, you know, says the states can have rules 3
that are consistent with our's, but also more 4
restrictive to the extent that the call is affecting 5
-- you know, it's a call made to someone in their 6
state, so it gives the states a very, very big role. 7
And it also gives individual consumers a big role in 8
the sense that you can bring private rights of actions 9
for $500 in state court for violations, if you get an 10
unsolicited -- a call outside the times specified in 11
the rules, or pre-recorded messages, or unsolicited 12
fax.13
IN fact, a law firm in town just 14
successfully got I think over a million dollar 15
judgment for unsolicited faxes, and that's just times 16
500.  It was Covington & Burling actually, I think.  17
So that happens, and so the TCPA is an interesting 18
statute. It's far-reaching.  We've been working with 19
it for quite a while from the state of our 20
proceedings, so it's updated.  We have the new act 21
from Congress, so we're working very, very hard on 22
getting this thing done, and we're looking forward to 23
getting more information.24
Now just so you know just how the power of 25
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these sort of proceedings, we -- usually, you know, 1
most rulemakings, we'll get a couple of hundred 2
comments if it's a big proceeding, in the small 3
proceedings we may get 25.  In the TCPA so far we've4
gotten 6,200 and a lot of those are from individual 5
consumers.  And that was one of the big reasons we 6
wanted to put ECFS Express up there, was so that 7
people could just write in and say, you know - - and 8
some of the comments, you can see them. I mean, just 9
go on and take a look at it, but some of the comments 10
are just pretty much, you know, you have to stop these 11
people from calling me.12
I also -- it's also, if you ever want to 13
get the message out in terms of enforcement -- is 14
David Horowitz here?  He -- David -- I was fortunate 15
to be on his show a couple of times answering 16
questions from consumers, and he put me on his website 17
as someone to contact.  And just recently I got a pack 18
of 120 unsolicited faxes from a school in Arkansas 19
saying David Horowitz said to send these to you.  So 20
we sent them to the Enforcement Bureau, and they're 21
going to get looked at, which is the appropriate thing 22
to do.  And so when you, you know, you get that type 23
of thing, if you have any violation of our rules, 24
faxes or calls, people can file complaints.  And, you 25
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know, we do enforcement.  I mean, that's how it works, 1
but that's the kind of information we want to get 2
people to know, that that information is out there, 3
and they can file the complaints with us.4
But just as important, and this is the 5
newer push, is where to get people to help us write 6
the rules, and tell us, you know, what's the 7
situation.  Because we find that, you know, the people 8
in the industry will have their advocates and, you 9
know, there's some, like I said, advocacy groups and, 10
you know, a specific perspective, and they want 11
certain things to happen, and they're in here.  And 12
they have the frequent visitor passes and stuff but, 13
you know, we don't hear a lot from people who aren't 14
in those situations, and that's why, you know, the 15
Internet being what it is, we want to hear as much as 16
possible, because this will all be noted when we 17
actually write up the final report and order.  So 18
that's all being worked on, and we really want to 19
encourage you because this docket is open, and 20
especially because the comment period has not closed 21
for the most recent further notice, the Implementation 22
Act further notice, the requirement that we maximize 23
consistency.  To consider it, just log it on yourself 24
and tell us, you know, what you think, or tell anyone 25
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else, or if this group wants to say anything, 1
obviously as a group, we'd be happy to hear it.2
The final item that's in front of our 3
Bureau that we're working on is a docket that will 4
probably always be open, and that's the 5
Telecommunications Relay Service docket.  That's TRS, 6
and that's Section 225.  And there's a requirement 7
under 225 that we continue to sort of look at 8
technology and make sure that the technology is 9
available, and it's constantly updated.10
The goal ultimately is to close dockets.  11
I mean, we do a rulemaking, we finish.  In fact, the 12
most TCPA Further Notice, we closed the old TCPA 13
docket because it was finished.  The orders were done, 14
the recons were done, everything was sort of over, and 15
so you do close dockets.  Our Reference Information 16
Center is usually very happy when we close dockets 17
because we take away hundreds and hundreds of pieces 18
of paper, but the TRS docket is probably something 19
that will never be closed because we have the 20
statutory requirement to continually update, and to 21
make more functionally equivalent things available to 22
people with hearing and speech disabilities.  So we 23
currently are actively working on an item.24
We had a rulemaking that went out, I 25
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believe it was in 2000.  It's what people refer to as 1
the Improved TRS Item, and that introduced a number of 2
mandatory minimum standards.  It also had a notice 3
that asked for a lot more, and should we do a lot 4
more.  I think this group would know -- the people who 5
were on the previous Committee would know that in the 6
Disability Rights Office, we've been able to staff up 7
with a good number of attorneys, and we've been able 8
to really focus some time on TRS, so we are actively 9
working on that particular rulemaking, and we're 10
hoping that things will be happening on that.11
So that's ongoing.  What people know, and 12
some people have done this, to the extent that you 13
don't know, one of the things we have encouraged in 14
the past on the TRS side, is for people to file 15
petitions when there are certain types of technologies 16
that we should consider, as to whether or not they 17
should be TRS, or whether they should not be TRS.  So 18
that's the kind of thing that, you know, if you know 19
about that, or if you have an interest in it, to let 20
us know, because we put those things out for notice, 21
and then we get a sense from the different communities 22
what's happening.  Especially if it's something that 23
-- if it's mandatory, we make it a mandatory TRS 24
requirement, then it's something the states have to 25
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do, as well, so it's always something we like to hear 1
from the states on.  So we'd like -- you know, and 2
also sometimes the states are the people that come up 3
with the best ideas.  Some of the states' mandatory 4
standards, you know, exceed our's, which is okay, as 5
long as they're not conflicting.6
So that's the type of thing that we also 7
could use some input on, to the extent that this 8
Committee is interested in, or you in particular are 9
interested in, or your group is, because we need that 10
type of information.  We need to hear from the 11
experts.  We're not always the experts in some of 12
these situations, so we could use some help.  And one 13
of the ways to do it is not just through ECFS, but 14
also more formal petitions, or just coming in and 15
asking for a meeting with us, and we can guide you on 16
what you need to file, if you want to file something 17
in a docket.18
So those are the three big things that our 19
staff up in the Consumer and Governmental  Affairs 20
Bureau are currently working on very diligently.  And 21
I guess I can take questions.  Okay.  So did anyone 22
have any questions?23
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Let me -- I'll play 24
traffic cop here.  All right.  I saw Larry's hand 25
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first, which may not have been correct. I was looking 1
in his direction, but Larry, you get it.2
MR. GOLDBERG:  Sure.  Hi, Margaret.3
MS. EGLER:  Hello.4
MR. GOLDBERG:  One of the questions on the 5
ECFS which I find very, very useful, remembering the 6
days when I wanted to read anything I'd have to come 7
down here and look at the paper, is that your 8
information that you send out is being put out in at 9
least three formats every time.10
MS. EGLER:  Right.11
MR. GOLDBERG:  Word, PDF and Text, but 12
people who submit are not.13
MS. EGLER:  Right.14
MR. GOLDBERG:  And I'm wondering if you're 15
considering requirements for filing so that you can be 16
assured that if, in particular, a blind person wants 17
to read someone else's comments, that they won't be in 18
an inaccessible format.19
MS. EGLER:  Yeah, I mean, we can 20
definitely take that back.  I don't know how we could, 21
just off the top of my head, require someone to file. 22
I mean, I think then you sort of raise barriers.  I 23
guess the real question is would we consider taking 24
the filings and transforming them once they're filed.25
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MR. GOLDBERG:  Well, sometimes you can, 1
but sometimes you can't.2
MS. EGLER:  Yeah.3
MR. GOLDBERG:  I see documents filed by 4
law firms that clearly have an electronic version that 5
they then print out and scan, and turn into an 6
inaccessible PDF, when it started as an accessible 7
one.  They just didn't want it out there in a 8
transformational format.9
MS. EGLER:  Right.10
MR. GOLDBERG:  I do know that various 11
federal agencies have requirements to submit documents 12
in certain ways.  If you want to submit a grant 13
application to the National Science Foundation these 14
days, you are required to do it in exactly a 15
particular way, so I think you might be able to ask 16
for a Word or some other format.17
MS. EGLER:  Right.  I can take it back.  18
The goal is to get as much information in as possible, 19
so I think -- I mean, if you're talking about grants 20
then that's something that you're getting a direct 21
benefit from.  Whereas, if somebody just wants to file 22
a comment that's four or five sentences long, what 23
kind of burdens we can put on that individual person, 24
especially if it's not a lot.25
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MR. GOLDBERG:  Well, you can put it on law 1
firms instead of consumers.2
MS. EGLER:  Well, yeah, there you go.  3
That would pass scrutiny.  Right?4
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Now we have a number 5
of people who put their hands up.  Does someone else 6
have a follow-up on what Larry just said?  I think 7
Susan Palmer over in this corner has a comment on what 8
Larry just said, and then we'll go around the room. 9
Okay?10
MS. MAZRUI:  I agree that you don't want 11
to limit participation by consumer and other groups.  12
I do think minimally guidelines could be established, 13
because I suspect that there are organizations and 14
companies that would be more than happy to provide 15
things in a format that's accessible if they really 16
understood, and so it really requires the FCC to take 17
a leadership role, and help define what that might be.18
I also believe that some of the comments 19
that are being filed through the Complaint Offices are 20
not put in accessible formats, but they are actually 21
scanned.  And I could be wrong, that could be old 22
data, but that had been my experience before.  But I 23
think certainly the FCC could develop guidelines for 24
filing.  I'm sure they're not taking something and, 25
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you know, in some obscure electronic format that 1
nobody can open at this point, I would think, so they 2
could take a leadership role.  And I think there's 3
been so much work to make things accessible that this 4
would be a natural next step for the organization.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Now do we have other 6
comments on this issue?  All right.  Claude has a 7
comment on this issue.8
MR. STOUT:  I wanted first to commend --9
to applaud the FCC for keeping up with the TRS issue. 10
And as you see, over time there are changes from the 11
traditional TTY and the Relay Service, and now we have 12
various options. There's TRS opportunities on the 13
computer.  You can use the Internet Relay, or you can 14
use a video relay service, so it's very empowering to 15
us as consumers.  And you provide us with more choices 16
on different opportunities with the Relay Service, and 17
that's a big benefit to us, so I want to applaud the 18
FCC with that.  And as well, I want to encourage you 19
and your staff to continue to speed up the CapTel 20
issue.21
We have lots of hard-of-hearing people 22
throughout the United States who benefit with this 23
CapTel Service.  CapTel is -- benefits hard-of-hearing 24
people who don't really benefit so much from a Relay 25
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Service or a video relay service, so I want to make 1
that comment to have it placed in the record.2
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, Claude.  Do we 3
have other comments on this issue?  David, yes.4
MR. POEHLMAN:  Hello.  This is David 5
Poehlman with the American Council of the Blind.  6
Google has a thing, Margaret, where you can click on 7
-- it'll say PDF or Text, PDF To Text, or something 8
like that.  For each document that they find that's 9
PDF, you can actually click on the Text link for it, 10
and it will automatically translate that PDF into 11
Text, if it's translatable into text, so that might be 12
another alternative, you know, in addition to 13
requesting that people file in, you know, XYZ formats, 14
you know, as part of your filing guidelines.  That 15
could be helpful, that way it would lessen the work on 16
your staff and, you know, maybe help streamline things 17
for others.18
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Thank you, David.  19
All right. Now I believe we have other questions.  I 20
know, Jim, you had your hand up.21
MR. CONRAN:  Thank you, Shirley.  I just 22
wanted to make actually a compliment to the process.  23
I think the FCC's on-line process is certainly by far 24
the best of any federal government agency, and it's 25
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nice to be able to make brief comments on issues that 1
are important.  And unlike other agencies, not worry 2
about getting back tree size filings from all the 3
other parties.  I know on some FERC issues that I 4
filed on, just a simple comment, the rest of my life 5
is inundated with mail that I really don't care to 6
get.  I don't even read it.  I throw it away.  And so 7
I think the process that the FCC uses is very 8
efficient, and it works well for people who just have 9
a thought that they think should be part of the 10
record.  It's something that people should take into  11
content, so I just wanted to compliment the process 12
that the FCC is using, and I have recommended it to 13
FERC, that it would be a model that they would be wise 14
to use if they really did want to get consumer input. 15
Thank you.16
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.17
MS. EGLER:  Let me just -- I just want to 18
give a plug again.  Bill Cline, who runs our Reference 19
Information Center, has spent so much time on this, 20
and I just want to get his name out there, because 21
when you do the Reference Information Center, you 22
don't get a lot of glory, and it can be somewhat 23
painful at times.  But he really masterminded this, 24
and I think it's worked out well.  Thanks.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  David, I think you 1
were -- you have a --2
MR. HOROWITZ:  What I'm interested in is 3
new telemarketing law.  Why the exclusions, Margaret, 4
were not really published along with the stories.   In 5
other words, the exclusions that were published were 6
done in such a general way that no one can understand 7
them.  Like, for instance, they said well, charities 8
are going to be excluded.  And then they said 9
insurance is excluded, and they went this whole list 10
of exclusions.11
Well, if you exclude charities from the 12
telemarketers, you know, telemarketers I think 13
probably about maybe 10 percent or 15 percent of the 14
calls are for some unknown charity.  And I could say 15
very easily this charity is, you know, a tax-exempt 16
charity, or it's a charity from an organization that 17
will give you a tax deduction on it, but that was 18
never really explained.  So when we did a segment with 19
folks on the other agency discussing this, they didn't 20
really have the list in tact, and we got inundated 21
with e-mail stuff saying what are the exclusions for? 22
And my feeling is, if you're doing any kind of a 23
regulation that has exclusions, they should be 24
explained bit by bit so people understand it.25
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Now I don't know what's going to happen 1
with your side of the telemarketing issue, but I think 2
it would be important for anything that you do from 3
the FCC on this issue, that those exclusions really be 4
explained, because some of those exclusions make no 5
sense.  Insurance, do you know why they would exclude 6
insurance?  I know why they're saying they're 7
excluding insurance.8
MS. EGLER:  The FTC?  I'm assuming they 9
don't have jurisdiction.10
MR. HOROWITZ:  Yeah.11
MS. EGLER:  Let me respond to -- first of 12
all, it's two different questions.  One is, what are 13
the exclusions?  The other is, the charitable, 14
non-profit.  We are prohibited by statute from 15
including non-profits, so that's written into the Act, 16
so our rules will not include non-profits.  That's up 17
to Congress, they made that decision, so that's -- you 18
can talk to them.19
But as far as the exclusions, and I think 20
this is one of the reasons Congress passed the bill 21
they did, was that there are a number of exclusions 22
because the FTC just doesn't have jurisdiction over 23
certain industries.  If we acted, every industry would 24
be covered because we have jurisdiction over industry 25
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that uses the telephone and fax machine in the market.1
MR. HOROWITZ:  But they even excluded 2
medical.  And do you know how many calls people are 3
getting now to buy everything from sexual drugs to God 4
knows what, which are considered medical, so these 5
people can still make those calls.6
MS. EGLER:  Right.  Well, again the list 7
is not in effect yet.  I mean, the list is not going 8
to go into effect, the FTC's list will not go into 9
effect until October 1st.  Yeah, it's actually going 10
into effect October 1st. I think you can start 11
signing up and then they can start downloading the 12
list to telemarketers in September.  I think that's 13
sort of where they're going, so I don't -- I'm not 14
sure about what the medical exclusion is.15
All I can tell you is that if we go16
forward, there won't be any exclusions for industries. 17
There will be an exclusion for non-profits under the 18
statutes.19
MR. HOROWITZ:  Why is there an exclusion 20
for the non- profits, because on the telephone --21
MS. EGLER:  Talk to Congress.22
MR. HOROWITZ:  -- they'll say we're a 23
non-profit.  And you're going to say to me send me 24
your charter so I can see that you're a non-profit.  25
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They're going to ask for a credit card number, and 1
they're going to charge, if you want to give this.  2
You will give a donation.  You give a credit card 3
number and it could be a non-profit or not.  People 4
have to be able to check that out, or the company 5
itself, or the charity itself should be able to supply 6
something.7
In some cities, you're not allowed to 8
solicit for any charities unless you get a 9
certification from the city.  They do that in Los 10
Angeles, which kind of works because you can say do 11
you have a certificate?  What's the certificate number 12
in those cities, but nationally it's almost impossible 13
to find out with all these charities, unless you go to 14
the Better Business Bureau and you look at their 15
charitable ratings, and who is and who isn't, and what 16
they do.17
CHAIR ROOKER:  But that doesn't give you a 18
whole list, David.19
MR. HOROWITZ:  No, it's just the ones that 20
they have checked out.21
CHAIR ROOKER:  Right.  Exactly.  I want to 22
ask a follow-up question to that, if I may.  And that 23
is, there are the so-called callers from the fire 24
department, and the police department, and all these. 25
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And, in fact, these are commercial organizations that 1
give a very small percentage of what they get from 2
consumers to the stated organization, the Police and 3
Fireman's Fund, and this sort of thing.  And those 4
calls, are they exempt?5
MS. EGLER:  Well, let me just get back to 6
the -- the first point is that we work for Congress.  7
Congress said non- profits are exempt.8
CHAIR ROOKER:  Right.9
MS. EGLER:  Non-profits are going to be 10
exempt, so the question of whether or not the people 11
marketing for them -- I mean, obviously that's 12
something, the FTC has said something on, we will say 13
something on.  I can't tell you at this point what 14
that's going to be.  You do know that the Supreme 15
Court just looked at this issue, and I guess there's a 16
case in Chicago, I think it's Illinois, that they17
brought the exact sort of same -- this company was 18
telemarketing for Viet Nam Veterans or Veterans of 19
Foreign Wars, and they were taking 95 percent of the 20
dollar, and so the question, you know, is that too 21
much.  And the questioning from the Bench - again, 22
there's no opinion out yet - and that will give us all 23
some guidance from the U.S. Supreme Court - didn't 24
seem to think that that was necessarily the worst 25
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thing in the world, that maybe there are reasons you 1
do this sort of thing.  Maybe this gets the name out 2
for the particular organization, and 95 percent isn't 3
too much, so I don't know.  It's an open issue.  4
However, we take very seriously the requirement from 5
Congress that non-profits are exempt, and so that will 6
be guiding us as we go forward.7
CHAIR ROOKER:  All right.  Joy.8
MS. RAGSDALE:  I'm Joy Ragsdale 9
representing NASUCA.  A different question, but in 10
regards to slamming.  Many of our offices, in fact, 11
all of our offices are statutorily authorized to 12
handle consumer complaints.  Some offices have a 13
Consumer Complaint Division and some do not, so when 14
your slamming rules came out, it was not clear whether 15
a People's Counsel's Office investigation of a 16
consumer slamming complaint would trigger the payment 17
process that the carriers have to refund the money.  18
So what is the appropriate vehicle to seek a rule 19
clarification on how the consumer offices fit within 20
the slamming rules?21
MS. EGLER:  Well, you can always file a 22
Petition for Declaratory Ruling, and that's actually 23
in the slamming docket, if you want to find out.  It 24
might be more though easily explained -- are you from 25
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a particular state or no?1
MS. RAGSDALE:  Well, NASUCA is an 2
international office, but I'm with the D.C.'s People's 3
Counsel, and we do have a consumer division.  We 4
handle a great deal of consumer complaints, so it's --5
trying to work in a cohesive fashion with the Public 6
Service Commission of D.C., who has volunteered to 7
handle complaints, and we often find ourselves 8
handling the same complaint.  The consumer doesn't get 9
action from one agency, they'll call the other.10
MS. EGLER:  Right.11
MS. RAGSDALE:  And we just need to 12
understand if our investigative authority will trigger 13
the rules under the --14
MS. EGLER:  Well, the way it works -- I 15
mean, we don't tell the states, and D.C. would be a 16
state in this context, what agency does it.  They just 17
have to sort of opt-in and they administer the rules. 18
And administering the rules means they've been using, 19
you know, the Section 258 Rule, Section 258 of our 20
Act.  And then the procedure is file a complaint, get 21
the response to the order, the determination.  And 22
then the remedy is specific in the rules in terms of 23
whether it's a credit or 150 percent of the amount 24
paid.  Those are the two remedies, so if you're doing 25
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that, you're doing them under our rules, so whoever 1
opted-in gets to do that.2
If for some reason D.C. and a lot of the 3
states have their own statutes, and it's calls within 4
their state, an intrastate call, they may have other 5
authority to impose fines or forfeitures that don't 6
derive from our Section 258, but derive from their own 7
statutes.  And as long as it's intrastate, they can go 8
forward and do that.9
In terms of who's handling the complaints 10
and who gets to administer the rules, it's really your 11
choice.  So maybe what you should do is why don't you 12
give me a call and we can just sort of talk about it 13
with both groups in D.C. and probably work it out 14
easily.15
MS. RAGSDALE:  Also, my other question, 16
the D.C. Circuit has just issued a ruling in the AT&T.17
MS. EGLER:  Yes.18
MS. RAGSDALE:  Now how does that affect 19
your third- party verification process?20
MS. EGLER:  Okay.  Let me explain.  The 21
case she's talking about is an AT&T case.  And 22
basically, what happened was we did a forfeiture, the 23
FCC did a forfeiture against AT&T for nine counts of 24
slamming, and they appealed two of them.  And this is 25
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what the third-party verification tapes -- this is 1
also, by the way, prior to the individual slamming 2
liability rules coming into effect.  But the process 3
in terms of what was -- what the companies had to do 4
was pretty much the same, so the company was making 5
telemarketing calls telling people -- asking do you 6
want to change your service.  We've got great service, 7
et cetera, et cetera.  Okay.  We're going to start --8
we're going to basically now ask you these questions. 9
So they ask the questions, you know, what is your 10
name, you know, do authorization, what's your address, 11
what's the phone number, what service do you want?  I 12
mean, there's a little laundry list of about nine 13
questions you're supposed to ask, so in these two 14
counts they actually asked all the right questions and 15
they had answers, so AT&T switched the person, the 16
line to AT&T, thinking they had valid authorization.17
Well, we got complaints from these two 18
people saying we didn't -- you know, either that's not 19
us on the tape, or I didn't give that authorization, 20
or that's not me.  And so the -- there's a Petition 21
for Reconsideration AT&T filed.  We supported the 22
order, the original enforcement order.  They filed an 23
appeal, and the D.C. Circuit said that we, the FCC, 24
cannot require actual, what they're calling actual 25
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authorization, which means the way we're sort of 1
reading it, is that if AT&T calls up somebody on the 2
other end of the line and they say I'm Margaret Egler, 3
they answer all the questions correctly, then AT&T 4
changes my long distance, but it wasn't me, we can't 5
require AT&T to know something in the court's phrase, 6
"the impossible."  How could AT&T know it's me on the 7
other end of the line if there's someone answering the 8
phone?9
Our subscriber rules, or the definition of 10
subscriber in our slamming rules is someone who is an 11
adult in the household authorized to make the change, 12
so the question is who's got the burden to prove 13
they're authorized.   And what the court said is that 14
if the person on the other end of the line says 15
they're authorized, then AT&T or any of the carriers 16
who follows all the verification rules verifying the 17
authorization, asking all the right questions, you 18
know, has the evidence they need to support the 19
carrier change.20
The court said that two -- and it goes 21
back to our specific statutory authority under Section 22
258 which is, you know, we can have a verification 23
process and enforce a verification process, as long as 24
the carriers are complying with the verification 25
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process, that's enough.  So that's what they said, so 1
where does that leave us?  I mean, it leaves us in a 2
situation -- and we don't get a lot of these 3
complaints, so where -- I mean, we do these, like I 4
said, the individual orders and these individual 5
liability we've done hundreds.  And I can only think 6
of a couple where this scenario actually came up, 7
where you have someone who is -- they have a tape and 8
it's got all the right answers, and all the right 9
questions, but the complainant says, you know, that's 10
not me on that tape.  And so the situation for that is 11
then the consumer is left with well, someone in your 12
household did this, and you've got to -- you know, 13
you're not going to be able to -- we cannot say that 14
that is a slam now, given what the D.C. Circuit said.15
MS. RAGSDALE:  So I placed a call with 16
your General Counsel's Office, is there any appeal, or 17
any further action?18
MS. EGLER:  The mandate for this 19
particular order -- I mean, what I've basically just 20
said to you is what the opinion said.  The actual 21
mandate, which is when it becomes effective, it hasn't 22
issued yet, and we don't determine whether or not 23
we're going to appeal until we see the mandate, and 24
then we have time after that, so the people upstairs 25
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are looking at it.1
CHAIR ROOKER:  Brenda.2
MS. KELLY-FREY:  I'm Brenda Kelly-Frey.  3
I'm with the State of Maryland, Maryland Relay.  Hi, 4
it's good to see you again.  I have two points.  One 5
is, I would like to ditto what Claude just said, and 6
ask the FCC to consider CapTel as an enhanced VCO 7
feature for relay and allow payment for that, and 8
allow that to be a mandatory --9
MS. EGLER:  Can I just interrupt you for a 10
second, just so everyone knows what's going on.11
MS. KELLY-FREY:  Yes.12
MS. EGLER:  There's a petition in front of 13
us, this is what Brenda and Claude are referring to, 14
that there's a service called -- by Ultratec called 15
"Captioned Telephone" or "CapTel".  Basically, it 16
allows someone who has hearing loss but not complete 17
hearing loss, to use the telephone and also to read, 18
and to communicate in a much sort of quicker way than 19
a TTY would necessarily do it.  And now we're getting 20
too much into the technicalities, but this petition 21
was filed.  We've got comments on it, and we're 22
currently, you know, working on it right now, so it's 23
being actively considered, and you guys are going to 24
have to file something on the record because you sort 25
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of made this presentation.  But basically, this is the 1
kind of thing I was talking about, where we ask people 2
to send in, you know -- TRS has been for several years 3
now, as far as the FCC is concerned, more than just, 4
you know, a TTY.  And I think we've seen that with IP 5
Relay and VRS.  And CapTel is just sort of another 6
step in, you know, how do we make it work?  How do we 7
implement the requirement of 225 to enable speech and 8
hearing disabled people to fully enjoy the benefits of 9
the telephone network.  So that's what they're talking 10
about.11
MS. KELLY-FREY:  Right.  I'm sorry for 12
those of you that didn't understand what we were 13
talking about.  But CapTel is a full duplex-type 14
telephone which is more functionally equivalent to 15
what you and I as hearing people use on a daily basis, 16
so thus the reason for the request.17
The second question I have for you is the 18
electronic filing system that you have, that I've 19
heard is absolutely wonderful.  When people file a 20
comment that way, do they receive some kind of 21
acknowledgement that you've received it?  And then, do 22
they get a letter back or anything?23
MS. EGLER:  No.24
MS. RAGSDALE:  No.  So if they file it 25
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that, it's assumed that they get an acknowledgement 1
and that's it.  They don't --2
MS. EGLER:  Right.  We don't harass you 3
with letters like this other agency, apparently.  We 4
basically -- we'll send you an e-mail confirming, just 5
so you know you don't have to send it again, and 6
that's pretty much it.  We don't keep a spam list or 7
anything to go after people.  We just accept it.8
MS. RAGSDALE:  Okay.  Thank you.9
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, Margaret, thank you 10
so much.  As usual, you've been excellent.11
MS. EGLER:  Thank you.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  We would like to invite the 13
members of the Committee.  We do have MCI and Annette, 14
thank you very much.  For those who are our public 15
members who are attending as part of the public, there 16
are cafeterias, and I think I'll let -- Courtyard 17
Level Cafeteria one level up from here.  I'm sorry 18
that we can't include you, but we just can't ever 19
figure out how many public members are going to be 20
here, but there is a cafeteria on the second level,21
the Courtyard level that you can use.22
We're planning to be back here at 1:15, 23
and I ask you let's please make it prompt.  My one 24
concern, and may I just have your attention, please, 25
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before we adjourn.  Since we have some members, Jim 1
and Dave, both you need to leave at 4.  You can be 2
here until 4.  Okay.  It's going to be our challenge 3
to see that we move through this afternoon's program 4
efficiently so that we can get to the part of setting 5
up the working groups.  And I'm a little concerned 6
that we don't run over time, so do you think that 7
works?  Okay.  4:00.  Okay.  We'll eliminate the break 8
or take a very short break if we have to in the 9
afternoon, because I really want to get these working 10
groups established, and I really want your input.11
Okay.  Let's go have lunch. I'm sorry that 12
I didn't get to you, Rebecca.  May I have your 13
question?  Could I have your attention, please.  I 14
have one question waiting from the panel.15
MS. LADEW:  I have to go at 4:00, also.16
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  All right.  Okay.  17
Thank you.  If any of you have to leave, I may let the 18
door be unlocked, but if any of you have to leave, and 19
you have suggestions for working groups, please give 20
them to Scott or me during lunch so that we can make 21
sure that those suggestions are input into the 22
discussion this afternoon.  Okay.  All right.  Thank 23
you, and we'll adjourn until 1:15 promptly.24
(Whereupon, the proceeding in the 25
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above-entitled matter went off the record at 12:04:57 1
p.m. and went back on the record at 1:18:19 p.m.)2
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Let us come back to 3
the business at hand.  Continuing our educational 4
process, our next speaker is Paula Silberthau.  She's 5
responsible for administering federal advisory 6
committees within the FCC.  In other words, she's 7
going to see that we're doing things properly.  She's 8
going to see that the Is are dotted and the Ts are 9
crossed.  She's not going to let you get out of line. 10
She is the Attorney Advisor in the Office of the 11
General Counsel.  Please welcome Paula.12
MS. SILBERTHAU:  Good afternoon.  I'm not 13
really a policeman.  That made me sound a little bit 14
-- but I'll give you a little bit of the framework of 15
the Federal Advisory Committee Act, which sets the 16
parameters under which your FACA and other groups like 17
you would operate.18
Keep in mind that the guiding principles 19
under the Act are openness in government, diversity in 20
membership, and public accountability.  And if you 21
keep those three things in mind, openness, diversity, 22
public accountability, some of the rules that the 23
statute sets out make a lot of sense.24
The first requirement is that the meetings 25
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must be open to everybody, and can be held only after 1
timely notice.  Usually, that's in the Federal 2
Register.  And frequently because not everyone reads 3
the Federal Register, there are other public notices 4
the FCC will put out in the Internet, in media, in 5
various types of press releases.6
One thing that is worth keeping in mind as 7
you proceed though is that meetings doesn't just mean 8
a meeting like this one with everyone present in the 9
room.  A meeting could be held by a teleconference on 10
the phone.  It could be held by a video conference.  11
It could be held through chat rooms on the Internet.  12
Obviously, not every time a couple of members of the 13
Committee get together, it won't always be a meeting. 14
But if you do schedule something for which there's a 15
quorum, a majority of the people, that could very well 16
push you into a meeting situation, so if you're 17
thinking of doing something by any of these other 18
means, and you have questions about whether that is a 19
meeting or not and, therefore, needs public notice, 20
please consult with Scott or with me.21
The second requirement is that there just 22
be minutes of meetings.  People who cannot attend the 23
meeting because they can't make it, they're busy, 24
whatever, are entitled to be able to look up in some 25
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sort of public record and just get a sense of what 1
your group has done.  The minutes don't have to 2
reflect everything that happens, but they should be 3
detailed enough to show what people are -- what 4
members are present at the meeting, and generally what 5
matters have been discussed.  The Chairperson has to 6
certify to the accuracy of the minutes.7
Closure of meetings is a real exception.  8
If any of you feel in advance of a meeting that you 9
anticipate something that's going to be discussed 10
that, for example, might be a trade secret, would 11
affect national security, that type of thing, would 12
involve classified material - that's unlikely, but 13
it's possible - then you should check with Scott or 14
whoever else at the agency is your liaison in advance 15
and discuss the possibility of closing that part of 16
the meeting that would be getting into that classified 17
type of material.18
It's not good enough to sort of get to 19
that point in the meeting and say oops, we're just 20
going to sort of go to the back room.  You can't do 21
that.  It has to be done in advance, and it has to be 22
okayed by the agent's head, and it has to actually be 23
part of the notice that's published in the Federal 24
Register, and in the other media.25
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Records are open, and FOIA requests can be 1
made for the materials that your group generates, so 2
the records need to be available for public inspection 3
and copying.  And the same exemptions that would be 4
applicable under the Freedom of Information Act would 5
cover this too, and it tends to be the same type of 6
thing, trade secrets, things that are classified or 7
that involve national security.8
One thing that's important going forward 9
is the distinction between the full group, the full 10
advisory group and working groups, because usually 11
people do organize themselves into sort of practical 12
working groups so that you can actually get a lot of 13
work done, and then bring it to the full committee.  14
If you are a working group as opposed to a full FACA 15
group, then you don't have to -- then the FACA 16
requirements of openness and the recordkeeping, and 17
all of the things I just mentioned don't apply to the 18
working groups.19
So to determine whether you're a working 20
group as opposed to a full committee, typically in 21
court cases, people look at what the working group is 22
doing.  If it's just getting information, performing 23
studies, drafting reports or discussing preliminary 24
findings that you want to make to the full group, then 25
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you would be acting as a working group.  You wouldn't 1
have to announce your meetings in advance.  You 2
wouldn't have to take minutes, that sort of thing.3
Here are some of the things that a working 4
group could do that would convert it into a full FACA 5
group.  You can't function as the actual parent 6
committee.  You can't speak on behalf of the committee 7
because it's just a working group.  You can't make 8
direct recommendations, say to the FCC.  9
Recommendations have to come from the group as a 10
whole, not just from the working group.  You can't 11
make decisions that would be binding on the full 12
committee, so if you do any of those things, you're 13
essentially -- the working group starts acting like 14
the full committee, then it gets nabbed with having 15
the responsibilities that are binding on the full 16
committee.  Again, if you have any questions about 17
that, you know, see your Designated Federal Officer to 18
keep you on the straight track there.19
I think it's just worth pointing out why 20
these requirements matter.  The goal at the end of the 21
day for groups, and I don't know all the details about 22
your group, but it's often to make advisory 23
recommendations for rulemakings and for other 24
improvements to the FCC.  If there have been breaches 25
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of the requirements of open meeting, recordkeeping, 1
this working group thing I was just mentioning, then 2
-- and someone were to raise a protest, then the 3
agency's hands would be somewhat tied in being able to 4
rely upon the recommendations of the group, because 5
they would have done things that didn't comply with 6
the openness requirements of the law.  So, you know, 7
at the end of the day, you want your work to be 8
productive, and that's why it's just good to stay on 9
the safe side of these issues.10
The only other thing I'd mention is our ex 11
parte rules.  At the FCC, anyone who speaks, 12
communicates with either the staff or the 13
decision-makers on something that goes to the 14
substance of a rulemaking, needs to put that into 15
writing.  And this is just a reminder that this 16
applies to informal contacts between any of you and 17
any FCC staff when going to the merits of a 18
proceeding.  It's not that you can't communicate your 19
ideas.  It's that if you do so, then you need to 20
comply with the ex parte rules, which basically means 21
within 24 hours, if you make a recommendation, you 22
have to write down the gist of what you said, label 23
the rulemaking and file that with the Secretary's 24
Office, just so that there's a public record for you 25
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folks, just like everyone else, as to what the 1
communication was.  And that's really about it.2
MS. MAZRUI:  When filing the ex parte, is 3
it from the committee, or is it from the individual 4
that made the comment on the committee?5
MS. SILBERTHAU:  Either one.  If it's by 6
you individually, in your individual capacity, then 7
you'd sign it, you know, so and so, you know, just 8
with your own name.  If it were on behalf of the full 9
committee, which is usually a more formal 10
communication in any event, there just has to be 11
something put in the record, you know, on such and 12
such a day we filed, you know, a report about whatever 13
the topic was.  See attached, and then that would 14
become part of the formal record of the rulemaking 15
proceeding.16
CHAIR ROOKER:  Any other questions for 17
Paula?  Okay.  She'll keep watch over us, and keep us 18
on the straight and narrow.19
MS. SILBERTHAU:  Okay.20
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, Paula, very 21
much.  Is Steven Gorey here?  Okay.  Great.  Let me 22
just introduce you.  We're going to see a live demo of 23
the CGB's web page.  Steve is the Assistant Bureau 24
Chief of CGB in the Systems Support Office, and thank 25
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you.  Welcome.1
MR. GOREY: Okay.  Thank you very much.  I 2
appreciate the opportunity to discuss the CGB website 3
today, and our ongoing efforts to make it a more 4
useful and effective tool.  During the next 30 5
minutes, we'll step through the site, and I'll give 6
you some insight into what we hope to achieve in the 7
future, as well as what we're doing right now.8
To set the stage, I thought it would be 9
useful to look back a few years, and see how far the 10
FCC has come as a Commission, and with the other 11
Bureaus in its website development activities.  I 12
don't know how many of you ever visited the old site, 13
or remember --14
CHAIR ROOKER:  We're kind of losing you, 15
Steve.16
MR. GOREY:  Pardon me?17
CHAIR ROOKER:  We need to get you a little 18
closer to the microphone.19
MR. GOREY:  Okay.  I don't know how many 20
of you remember the old website, or even visited it.  21
But if you do, you remember something that looks like 22
this.  It's a page that's dominated by a picture of 23
the Portals Building, obviously, and there's other 24
things arrayed around the edge.  In addition, if I 25
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could show you the old Bureau pages, you would see 1
that they were all completely different.  And judging 2
from the Internet alone, you would have no sense that 3
the FCC was an integrated entity.4
So against this backdrop, we realized that 5
we had to do something about the FCC sites, and Bureau 6
sites.  And so in 2000, we contracted with a company 7
called "Human Factors International", and HFI 8
conducted a series of interviews with website 9
visitors, and established that we have two major user 10
groups.  One of the user groups was, and continues to 11
be, professional users, people like in law firms and 12
associations and the like that know exactly what 13
they're after, and know exactly where to go in the FCC 14
to get it.  They don't have to hunt around.15
The other class of users are regular 16
consumers who often have never been to our site 17
before, and have no idea of where to go to find what 18
they're looking for.  So in short, the contractor 19
confirmed a lot of our own conclusions about the 20
shortcomings of our sites, and also identified many 21
other issues that we needed to address to improve our 22
site.23
For example, the Portals Building is a 24
very nice place to work.  I can ensure you of that, 25
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but it really doesn't do much to establish the FCC's 1
brand identity.  Why would anybody throughout most of 2
the U.S. look at the building and connect it in any 3
meaningful way with what the FCC does?  So in the new 4
design, we decided we're going to get rid of the 5
Portals Building.6
Also, at that time, consumers and other7
visitors complained a lot about the fact that they had 8
trouble finding what they were after, and that was 9
largely due to the fact that we had so many search 10
tools that were linked to individual pages.  So as a 11
result of that, in the intervening two years, we found 12
a powerful single -- a single powerful search engine 13
we called Inktomi.  I mean, we've got that available  14
now so that any time anybody comes to our site and 15
searches for anything, it's Inktomi that's doing the 16
work behind the scenes.17
And also, because of the lack of standard 18
look and feel, some people even said that they didn't 19
know when they had left the FCC site.  No sense of 20
when they were still within the domain of the FCC, 21
which was a major problem in and of itself.  And so 22
perhaps that's the biggest single change we've made, 23
designing the now familiar blue and gold template that 24
we use today.  So if we go to the new FCC home page, 25
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it looks like that.  And at the outset, you might 1
think well, maybe I like the Portals Building, but 2
what we did here, we republished all 11,000 plus of 3
our pages in this format.  And so with that standard, 4
and the ability to find things, certain common things 5
on every single page, it seemed to help quite a bit.6
Well, the evidence suggests that it really 7
was well- received, because in the Fall of 2001, the 8
FCC placed third in Brown University's annual study of 9
state and federal websites, and then last year we 10
jumped to number one, so this is the number one 11
federal and state website according to Brown 12
University.13
In CGB, we like to think that some of the 14
things that we've done, and I'll show you in a few 15
minutes, helped with the number one ranking.  And 16
we've already received word from the Chairman, he 17
expects us to retain the number one ranking for this 18
year.  And you know what they say about being number 19
one, there's only one way to go.20
All right.  So now let's look at the CGB 21
site.  Okay.  What you're looking at right now is our 22
interpretation of the standard format for the FCC.  23
And one of the things you'll notice right off the bat, 24
is that we've taken the standard template and 25
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implemented it somewhat differently.  The center main 1
section that is generally used for headlines, we have 2
relegated that real estate to something we think is a 3
bit more important, which is targeting stakeholder 4
groups.  And you can see the main headlines on the 5
right-hand side, and then there's another section 6
we'll show you in a minute for media that contains the 7
connectivity for the rest of the headlines.8
The other thing that I should draw your 9
attention to is the fact that we don't emphasize our 10
organizational structure on our website.  We feel that 11
if you're looking for something, you should be able to 12
find it without knowing who we are.  And while you 13
will be able to find out about our organizational 14
structure, you'll have to look a bit.15
Okay.  So getting back to the center 16
portion of the page, at the very top we have what we 17
call the "Blue Box".  And the Blue Box is a place 18
where we put things of particular interest or moment 19
in terms of what the FCC is involved with at any given 20
time.21
Until recently, we had -- with the 22
prominence of the Iraq War, we had our Calling Home 23
Program featured in there, which tells about the 24
program for the servicemen and women who are overseas, 25
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and ways to save money in their telecommunications 1
needs.  Right now we have wireless 911 feature, but 2
that will change.  That's probably the thing that you 3
should look to, or our visitors should look to when 4
they first come here, and want to see what we think is 5
the -- some major issues that are going on.6
Dropping down below that, we have probably 7
our single largest stakeholder group represented in 8
this next box.  That's, of course, consumers.  And if 9
you go to that page, what we've done is grouped things 10
together under major headings, which you can get to 11
via either an icon if that's your preference, or 12
through text links.  And what that allows us to do is 13
to provide information in plain English language, we 14
hope, concerning any of those different major 15
categories.  And then all of these things are 16
associated with certain fact sheets the FCC maintains, 17
and this is part of the fact sheet directory that 18
anyone can access for any of these things.19
The other thing that I really want to tell 20
you about is a brand new page called, "The Consumer 21
Advisory Committee Page", and this is a brand new 22
page.  It's a new design theme that you're going to 23
see more of in the future, but the content is somewhat 24
sparse right now, but we think that you'll help us 25
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fill it out over the coming months.  And, in fact 1
we're really serious about that.  I know that we'd 2
like you to give us plenty of feedback on the site, 3
and use it any way you want.4
You will see that we have initially 5
information on the mission of the CAC, the Committee 6
membership, the charter, press releases, et cetera.  7
And then you'll also be able to find the old CDTAC 8
archive information at the bottom.  So again, it's 9
somewhat sparsely populated right now, but please give 10
us your feedback.11
Below that, and in recognition of our 12
special responsibilities in the area of disability 13
rights, we have another page which groups together 14
again all of the disability issues that we have 15
responsibility for, or something to do with.  We have 16
disability headlines, TRS, Section 255, and you can 17
blow up all of these different sections and get quite 18
a bit of detailed information.  But again, you don't 19
have to hunt around.  If you're interested in Section 20
255 or closed captioned, all you've got to do is find 21
your way to this site, and then you'll be able to 22
drill-down and get to it with a minimum amount of 23
trouble.24
And while I'm at it, I should probably 25
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mention that we take accessibility and website design 1
very seriously in the FCC as a whole, and certainly in 2
the CGB.  We've tried very hard to provide accessible 3
versions of all materials provided on our website, 4
which means that if you see PDF, nine times out of ten 5
you're going to see HTML or Word, or a Text version 6
that is more accessible than PDF.  PDF, obviously, is 7
good for downloading and printing.  It's a nice tool 8
for that, but there are problems with it.  Everybody 9
acknowledges that there are problems with regard to 10
screen readers in some cases.11
It's also worthwhile noting that there was 12
a conscious effort to pick the template colors for the 13
FCC page.  This blue and gold, with accessibility in 14
mind, so not that we're perfect, but we're making an 15
honest effort.16
The next page I want to show you is the 17
Tribal State and Local Government's page.  This is in 18
recognition of the fact that we have 19
government-to-government relationships.  If you go to 20
this page, you'll find information about the Local and 21
State Government Advisory Committee.  And another 22
page, which is relatively new, that we're really proud 23
of called "The Tribal Initiatives Page", and here we 24
are featuring our Tribal Initiatives activities, and 25
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talking about our special responsibilities in meeting 1
the needs of Native Americans, the telecommunication 2
needs of Native Americans.  And here at the bottom of 3
the page, we're going to chronicle our activities on 4
this map, which if you click on it, you can find a map 5
of the United States, and these purple areas, some of 6
them will tell you about events that we've attended, 7
such as this one, the Chehalis Reservation meeting of 8
last year, July of `02.  That's another little device 9
that we're starting to use.10
Okay.  Going down still further, we have a 11
page for industry, which it's obviously another major 12
stakeholder in the complex relationship between 13
consumers and industry, and other parties.  What we've 14
done here again is we've tried to reduce to plain 15
English language, the way in which industry can deal 16
with the informal complaint process.17
Now you'll notice this disclaimer we have 18
right at the top.  And it says, "The information 19
provided in connection with these frequently asked 20
questions does not purport to identify all of the FCC 21
rules, regulations or orders that may apply to a 22
particular matter or situation.  Each entity regulated 23
by the FCC has an affirmative obligation to be 24
informed and comply with the applicable rules, 25
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regulations and orders of the FCC."1
When we came up with that page, that 2
disclaimer wasn't in there.  But when we showed it to 3
our lawyers, they wanted to make sure that in our 4
attempt to reduce things to plain English language, 5
that we didn't do any damage to the process.  And so 6
in other words, we're telling industry okay, we may be 7
talking in plain English language, but in so doing, if 8
we mess anything up, you're still liable, kind of like 9
what the IRS used to do.10
Okay.  We also have a military site.  This 11
came into being in May of 2002 with the FCC's Calling 12
Home campaign for military personnel and their 13
families.  In the center piece of this site is the 14
Calling Home guide, which tells servicemen and women 15
all the things that they can do to reduce their 16
telecommunications cost when they're overseas.  Again, 17
we thought it was a real good idea to have such a 18
page, and we're getting quite a few hits on this page.19
And then finally at the bottom of the pile 20
is media.  And as I mentioned a while ago, that's 21
where we put all the headlines that if you go to the 22
FCC home page, it's right smack in the middle.  And so 23
what we did is essentially invested a lot of the space 24
for other things, as I said at the outset.25
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Okay.  Now let me take you to a couple of 1
other pages.  I think I heard some people talking 2
about our rulemaking process throughout the day, and I 3
don't know if there was some reference made to ECFS 4
Express.  I just wanted to show you kind of the 5
rationale for this little system that we've come up 6
with.  And basically, that is the fact that the 7
industrial strength Electronic Comment Filing System 8
is for the uninitiated, kind of daunting.  In other 9
words, you've got to know the docket number, and 10
you've got to think -- there are proceedings that 11
don't have clear titles, at least to people who aren't 12
lawyers.  And so if you're looking for something that 13
you want to comment on, it's kind of a problem.  And 14
so to answer this concern, we came up with a shorthand 15
system.16
We don't have to know any docket numbers 17
at all.  And what we do is, we provide the hot issues 18
in shorthand, and then we, behind the scenes when 19
somebody selects one of those, and gives us a comment, 20
we link it up with the docket.  So, for example, if I 21
picked Uniform Complaint Process, and I go to 22
continue, then all I have to do is fill in these seven 23
fields, and I can make a comment.  And it sends back a 24
confirmation that you've successfully commented.  And 25
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this, to us, goes a long way towards answering a lot 1
of the problems that we know people have had who, 2
again, are people that don't do this on a regular 3
basis, in commenting on proceedings at the FCC.4
Another page I'll just draw your attention 5
to is the Rural Telecommunications page, and that also 6
has a new design.  And this has information about 7
programs to get connected and affordable phone service 8
that's available, programs that are available for 9
people who live in rural parts of the country.  And a 10
whole bunch of other information, but you can see that 11
if you go here, again we're trying to group as much 12
information for those people interested in this sort 13
of subject matter as we can.14
And I should say, when we won first place 15
last year, most of that which I'm showing you wasn't 16
there, so there is a chance we could retain that 17
ranking, but we'll see.  And -- oh, I know.  The other 18
thing I wanted to show you, I think I also heard some 19
talk about the phone bill and how confusing they are. 20
And we certainly get a lot of complaints and 21
inquiries about phone bills, and trying to figure out 22
what people are being charged, ripped-off or what have 23
you, so we came up with another little device called 24
the "Virtual Phone Bill", and it looks like this.  25
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What you have is a phone bill that's for both wireless 1
and wire line, that let's you scroll down.  And we 2
have certain lines that people often talk about with 3
the little bubbles over them.  And if you run the 4
cursor over the bubble, it'll explain and give you a 5
definition of the charge to the extent that we can 6
provide it in this small space.  And we've heard from 7
people that they really like this, and get some use 8
out of this.  And again, we've done this for both wire 9
line and wireless.10
Okay.  Looking to the future, here's what 11
you can expect to see in the future.  We've got a 12
52-week plan started.  The idea being that only sites 13
that change on a regular basis get visited.  I don't 14
think any of us in the room here go back to sites that 15
don't change ever.  It doesn't make sense.  So what 16
we're going to do is change something in that blue box 17
once a week.  And not just change for change sake but, 18
you know, try to make it relevant to things that we're 19
getting asked about on the phone, or proceedings that 20
are going on in the FCC, et cetera.21
The other thing is, we're going to 22
continue to experiment with balancing text and 23
graphics.  You can see that we kind of have a lot of 24
graphics on here right now.  We also make use of tags, 25
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so that screen readers can deal with the graphics, but 1
we have learned through experience that if you bombard 2
a visitor with too much text, it tends to camouflage 3
what they're looking for.  And so we're trying to use 4
graphics to kind of lighten that effect up somewhat.5
And the other thing that we're going to do 6
more of in this era of E-Government is provide more 7
opportunities for on- line self-service.  We have a 8
big project right now called "The Consumer Information 9
Management System", and we're re-engineering all of 10
our processes in terms of the informal complaint and 11
inquiry process, as well as modernizing our 12
technology.  And one of the things that we know people 13
would like to be able to do is, if they have their 14
complaint number, they filed a complaint and they have 15
their number, we know they'd like to be able to go on 16
the web sometime and be able to enter that number and 17
get a status back, rather than calling somebody.  It 18
would benefit them, and it would benefit us, because 19
we'd be spending less time on the phone.  So that's 20
something else we'll be doing.21
So anyway, this gives you an idea of what 22
we've done.  I would welcome your comments and 23
suggestion now or later, and especially on the CAC 24
page.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Does anyone have questions? 1
David, you're next.2
MR. POEHLMAN:  Hi, this is Dave Poehlman 3
with the American Council of the Blind.  And I'm a 4
technology consultant, and I do a lot of looking over 5
the shoulder of webmasters at what they've produced, 6
and what they're producing.  I hadn't prepared myself 7
for this meeting by going through the FCC pages, but I 8
have visited them quite often over the past several 9
years, and I have noticed some changes.  I just had a 10
couple of things I wanted to look at with you.  Thank 11
you, by the way, for sharing this with us.  This looks 12
like a very exciting electronic interface for the FCC. 13
It's one you should be proud of.14
Is there any other way to identify the 15
blue box besides the color of the box?16
MR. GOREY:  Well, in fact, I didn't 17
mention this, but we have another prototype version of 18
this page that probably will appear a bit less heavy 19
to you with that splash of blue at the top.  We're 20
looking at it right now.  We're thinking about putting 21
it up in the near future.  What do you suggest?22
MR. POEHLMAN:  Well, I was just -- I guess 23
the color is saying to people this is something you 24
should look at.25
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MR. GOREY:  Right.1
MR. POEHLMAN:  So, you know, what we 2
usually try to strive for in a situation like that is 3
to put some kind of permanent title on that section, 4
like a header that says this week's important info, or 5
this week's info you should look at, or something like 6
that.  That would identify the blue box.  You don't 7
even have to say it's blue.8
MR. GOREY:  Right.9
MR. POEHLMAN:  Just say, you know, this is 10
something we think is important enough, you know, to 11
draw your attention.12
MR. GOREY:  Okay.13
MR. POEHLMAN:  So that's, you know --14
MR. GOREY:  Good comment.15
MR. POEHLMAN:  The blue is great.  Now 16
here's the other thing I have.  You talked about the 17
Virtual Phone Bill.  I got all excited until you said, 18
you know, when you move the cursor over and it 19
changes, and I went wait a minute.  Okay.  How can I 20
do this with a keyboard, if I'm tabbing through it, or 21
if I'm -- you know, if I've got it in my virtual 22
buffer, you know, how can I get the same information 23
out of that virtual phone bill that, you know, that a 24
person who's using a mouse can get?25
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MR. GOREY:  Okay.  Yeah.  What I meant to 1
say is when you move the cursor over certain line 2
items in the phone bill, it comes up with a dialogue 3
box.4
MR. POEHLMAN:  But that's the mouse.  5
Right?6
MR. GOREY:  Yes.  Okay.  And you were 7
saying what?8
MR. POEHLMAN:  Right.  So how can I get 9
that information, since I don't use a mouse.10
MR. GOREY:  Okay.  I don't know.  I'm 11
going to have to look at that.12
MR. POEHLMAN:  Okay.13
MR. GOREY:  I'm going to have to figure 14
that out.15
MR. POEHLMAN:  Actually, the way that some 16
websites do it, is they allow you to put in 17
information that would make things more specific.  18
Like you could put in your zip code, for example, and 19
your state and that kind of thing, and it will 20
actually give you a virtual phone bill, you know, for 21
your particular circumstances.22
MR. GOREY:  Right.  Right.  Okay.23
MR. POEHLMAN:  So, you know, you might be 24
able to do it that way, because I'm not sure what 25
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those dialogue boxes contain but, you know, it might 1
be just as simple as doing something like that.2
MR. GOREY:  Okay.3
MR. POEHLMAN:  Simple but, you know -- and 4
the other -- the final thing I have for now is do you 5
still use real -- this might be a little off the way. 6
Do you still use Real Media only for your --7
MR. GOREY:  As an FCC standard?8
MR. POEHLMAN:  Yeah.  Right.9
MR. GOREY:  You know, I believe we do 10
right now.  Yes.11
MR. POEHLMAN:  Because it would be really 12
great if we could have at least one more, or an 13
additional one, like Windows Media for the simple 14
reason that there are a lot of situations where Real 15
Media just doesn't work.16
MR. GOREY:  Right.  Right.  Okay.  I can 17
take that up with the FCC webmaster too, that topic.18
MR. POEHLMAN: Thank you, and I look 19
forward to the continuing evolution.  And if I can 20
help in any way, let me know.21
MR. GOREY:  Okay.  Thanks.22
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, David.  Do we 23
have other questions?  Susan Palmer.24
MS. MAZRUI:  I also want to say that I 25
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think there has been a lot of progress.  And I think 1
that there's a lot of good things that have happened. 2
I do have a question about what processes you have in 3
place to make sure that the website is 508- compliant, 4
not 504, but 508.  And also, following the way 5
guidelines.  And if there's a testing process that 6
looks at the needs of people who are using screen 7
readers, but also people who are seniors.  And things 8
like time-outs and things that can be problematic.9
MR. GOREY:  Right.  Sure.10
MS. MAZRUI:  And, you know, I do commend 11
the fact that you're putting many documents in 12
multiple formats, but I would really like to see some 13
kind of a policy in place that it doesn't go out until 14
it's available to everyone.  Just as you don't open 15
the doors to a building when it just has stairs, you 16
want until there's a ramp.17
MR. GOREY:  Right.  Right.  The answer to 18
your first question is probably multi-faceted.  We 19
have a 508 office here that operates out of our Office 20
of the Managing Director.  And they set policy and, 21
you know, they have a certain role to play FCC-wide.  22
Now within the CGB, there's formal and informal 23
processes.  One of my favorite informal processes is 24
going to Scott Marshall and saying Scott, does this 25
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work for you, you know.  So that's one thing that I 1
do, but we also do converse pretty carefully with our 2
Disability Rights Office, as well, and make sure that 3
we're on solid ground, so those are a few examples.4
CHAIR ROOKER:  Follow-up, Susan.5
MS. MAZRUI:  Do you have people who use 6
screen readers in the Disability Rights Office?  And 7
also, I have to warn you about Scott, because he's 8
incredibility bright and adept, so he may have some 9
more problem-solving skills than some lowly person 10
like me.11
MR. GOREY:  All right.12
MR. MARSHALL:  I'm not a computer expert 13
either.14
MR. GOREY:  You know, I'm not certain how 15
many people - - yes, we have Arlene.  Does Arlene have 16
-- Scott, does Arlene have screen reader?  Okay.  17
Yeah, I'm not sure that we do have anybody in the 18
Disability Rights Office with a screen reader, so all 19
the more reason for me to go to Scott.20
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  I think Claude had 21
his hand up next.  Then we have some questions here.22
MR. STOUT:  I also wanted to compliment 23
your work on the website along with everybody else 24
here.  Two considerations for you to think about in 25
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the site.  If you've added information about Video 1
Relay Services, if there are videos on there, to 2
caption those videos on the website, and not only 3
streaming videos but, you know, like Chairman Powell's 4
speeches before, you know, some type of audience in a 5
conference.  Not just those, but it would be neat to 6
have infomercials, perhaps.  There are a lot of people 7
on the street throughout America that look at, you 8
know, different features, and they look at the 9
information and say that's it?  Oh, wow, it takes such 10
a long time to read all this stuff, you know.  I'll 11
read it later.  But if you have streaming video with 12
captions or somebody doing sign language, it would be 13
even better.  There would be a lot more people who 14
would be willing to get access to that information, 15
and if you can keep it short, then it's great for 16
people to look at it, and some video to go along with 17
your text would be a great thing to have.18
MR. GOREY:  Okay.  Good idea.  We'll think 19
about that.20
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yeah.  Thank you, Claude.21
MR. GOREY:  See what it takes for that.22
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  I think we had two 23
comments.  Mike, you had one, and then David.24
MR. DUKE:  Wandering microphone.  25
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Especially for pages which do not, because of the 1
nature of their content, do not have to change very 2
often, is there somewhere on that page last updated on 3
April 25th, whatever?4
MR. GOREY:  Yes, there is.5
MR. DUKE:  Okay.  Because that's a great 6
-- that's one of the first things I look at when I go 7
to a site, is to (a) not only to see how current 8
they're keeping the site, but --9
MR. GOREY:  Right.10
MR. DUKE:  -- if I just looked at it two 11
weeks ago and, you know, and it hasn't changed, I 12
don't need to waste my time looking there today.13
MR. GOREY:  Exactly.  Especially when 14
there's a lot of text.15
MR. DUKE:  Right.16
CHAIR ROOKER:  That's a good point.17
MR. DUKE:  Okay.  Thank you.18
CHAIR ROOKER:  David's next.19
MR. HOROWITZ:  It's funny.  I was going to 20
ask a question like that, but make a suggestion.  And 21
that is, on the page, on the home page that they have 22
the date everyday, because people go to a website and 23
they look and say oh, that thing is four days old, 24
three days old or whatever. And it's not trying to 25
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fool anyone, but just have a date.1
MR. GOREY:  Right.2
MR. HOROWITZ:  You know, this is today, 3
whatever, whatever, Washington, D.C.  You can have a 4
little box.  And the other thing is what about doing 5
some things that are bilingual?  I mean, we have --6
everything is English here, which is fine, but --7
CHAIR ROOKER:  No, it's in Spanish.8
MR. GOREY:  No, we have quite a bit of 9
Spanish.10
CHAIR ROOKER:  It's in Spanish.  A lot of 11
it is in Spanish.12
MR. GOREY:  I didn't cover that, but we do 13
have a lot of Spanish in the FCC --14
MR. HOROWITZ:  Is Spanish the only 15
language?16
MR. GOREY:  Pardon me?17
MR. HOROWITZ:  Is Spanish the only 18
language?19
MR. GOREY:  No, it isn't.20
MR. HOROWITZ:  What other languages are 21
there?22
MR. GOREY:  We have done some things in 23
about 13 different languages.  There was one brochure 24
that we did in 13 different languages.25
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MR. HOROWITZ:  How will they access it 1
then if they went to the home page?  Say they want to 2
do something in Vietnamese or --3
MR. GOREY:  Yeah.  I'm not going to sit 4
here and tell you that we do a vast amount of things 5
that are not in Spanish.  But we have dabbled with 6
other languages.  In fact, it's surprising, some of 7
the languages we got the most interest in, and one of 8
which was Tagalog.9
MR. HOROWITZ:  Really?10
MR. GOREY:  Right.  At least with regard 11
to the --12
MR. HOROWITZ:  Well, the Philippine 13
population in this country --14
MR. GOREY:  Right.  At least with regard 15
to the brochure that we did.  But we are talking at 16
the FCC about a commission-wide contract with a web 17
translation service that specializes in a number of 18
different languages.19
MR. HOROWITZ:  That's a good idea.  What 20
about font sizes?  The font sizes seem to be, you 21
know, pretty much throughout the website, they're 22
pretty much the same.  I mean, you have what, 12 point 23
or 10 point, or maybe 8 point some places.24
MR. GOREY:  Right.25
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MR. HOROWITZ:  But for seniors again, you 1
know, a lot of seniors, they have their dictionaries 2
now in large type.  I'm not saying go to 18 or 14 3
type.4
MR. GOREY:  Right.5
MR. HOROWITZ:  But go to something that's 6
over 10, and also -- and I know there's a way to do it 7
where you can just push a button and you can pick out 8
the size you want.  In other words, if you can't read 9
it, you can adjust it to -- if it's 10 you can go to 10
12 or 14.11
MR. GOREY:  Right.  And a lot of that, 12
again, keeping in mind that we're responsible for one 13
Bureau page.  A lot of that is in discussion 14
throughout the FCC through the webmaster and certain 15
groups that we have, and going to maintain the entire 16
site.17
The other thing is, I mean, the thing you 18
always struggle with in a website is how do you meet 19
the needs of the widest array of people with different 20
issues, and it is a problem.21
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you.  Eugene, last 22
question.23
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Hi, Steven.  I've only been 24
involved in policy kind of stuff for the past two 25
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years, and I have to tell you that yesterday I had to 1
a research project that involved calling a lot of 2
information form the FCC site, and it was remarkably 3
better than the first time than I had to do it two 4
years ago.5
MR. GOREY:  Good.  Good.6
MR. SEAGRIFF:  And the user experience was 7
very positive, and I was able to much more quickly and 8
easily find much of the data that I was looking for.  9
I have two suggestions, perhaps.  I love the idea of 10
the ECFS Express, and I have a question.  I was 11
wondering if you do submit a comment, when you get a 12
confirmation, does it then include the docket number 13
for future reference?14
MR. GOREY:  I think it does, actually.  It 15
gives you a confirmation number, as well.16
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Right.  And the other thing 17
I was wondering about is also related to docket 18
numbers.  Since I'm not a policy kind of guy, I don't 19
often know the docket that I'm looking for.  And I 20
haven't found the search portion of ECFS to be all 21
that useful if you don't have the docket number.22
MR. GOREY:  Right.23
MR. SEAGRIFF:  And that's an area that 24
would be worth looking into.25
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MR. GOREY:  Right.1
MR. SEAGRIFF:  I know it's a difficult and 2
complex problem to solve in the database, but if there 3
was some way that -- I mean, I think that would even 4
further elevate the usability of the site.  Already, 5
I'm really thrilled with all the things you've done, 6
but that may be another place to work on to keep your 7
number one position.8
MR. GOREY:  Right.  It is a thing to work 9
on, and I should mention that in some ways, ECFS is a 10
stop-gap measure, because we have requested funding to 11
completely re-engineer ECFS, and to address some of 12
the things you just mentioned.13
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, that was a nice way 14
to end it, with a compliment.15
MR. GOREY:  Yes.  Thank you.16
CHAIR ROOKER:  Thank you, Steven, very 17
much.18
MR. GOREY:  Thank you very much.19
CHAIR ROOKER:  Joining us next, our 20
educational process continues.  We're going to take a 21
look at the way the FCC works, what it does, how it 22
does it, the decision-making process structure.  We've 23
got a lot of work ahead of you, and the person who's 24
going to do this is Donald Stockdale, who's a Senior 25
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Legal Advisor for the Office of Strategic Planning of 1
the FCC.  Donald, welcome.2
While Donald is getting set up, Byron 3
asked if he could just make one comment about 4
something.5
MR. ST. CLAIR:  Yes.  The National 6
Translator Association has a proposal before the FCC 7
which we think is consumer-friendly, particularly for 8
people who live in rural areas.  We have asked the FCC 9
to streamline the application procedure for 10
translators.  The Commission has come out with a 11
notice acknowledging that we've asked for this, and 12
basically saying should they do anything about our 13
request.  I would be glad to tell anybody, provide 14
more details to anybody who thinks they might be 15
interested, and just even some minimal supporter 16
saying they don't understand the technical aspects, 17
but the whole idea seems like a good thing.  So I 18
solicit the support of anybody who is concerned about 19
free over-the-air television in rural areas.  Thank 20
you.21
CHAIR ROOKER:  You're welcome.  And sorry 22
to take your time.23
MR. STOCKDALE:   No problem.  Thank you.  24
I'm pleased to be able to talk with you today, and to 25
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present a brief introduction and overview of the FCC.1
I'll basically try to describe the 2
organization of the Commission, its procedures, and 3
its functions.  Now the slides I'll be using today 4
were prepared for a new course that the Commission has 5
begun offering to new FCC employees, so you're going 6
to be receiving the same kinds of information all our 7
new employees receive.  Now these slides should be 8
available in your materials.  And Scott tells me that 9
for those of you using Braille, the slides begin on 10
page 45.  And for others, the slides begin on page 17, 11
so you may want to refer to that.12
Because this introductory course was 13
actually designed for a longer period than I have 14
today, I may -- I will be skipping over some of the 15
slides.  But if I skip over something that interests 16
you, you should feel free to raise your hand and 17
interrupt, and we can discuss it.  I also encourage 18
you to ask questions throughout the presentation.  As 19
a regulator for several years, I have an unfortunate 20
habit of lapsing into the use of acronyms which normal 21
people would not know.  And if I do, remind me so that 22
I can explain it, and I hope that that will liven the 23
presentation a bit.24
Finally, at the end of my slides, you'll 25
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see my e-mail address.  And I do encourage you after 1
this session, if you have suggestions on how the 2
presentation can be improved, or if you have 3
additional questions you'd like me to answer, feel 4
free to contact me.5
Okay.  Now this is a basic outline of the 6
talk. And I'm going to start by talking about the 7
legal framework within which the Commission operates, 8
since clearly, we must comply with the laws that 9
Congress passes.   Then I'll briefly talk a little bit 10
about the communication, the market framework, and the 11
growing size of the communications industry within the 12
U.S. economy.  Then I'll turn to organizational, 13
administrative framework, the decision-making process, 14
and finally talk a bit about external influences and 15
the various stakeholders to the Commission.  And the 16
issue of public trust safeguards is primarily an issue 17
that is relevant to employees, but we may touch on 18
that if we have time.19
Okay.  Now as a bit of brief history.  In 20
1887, Congress passed the act to regulate commerce, 21
which created the Interstate Commerce Commission.  22
This Commission was the first independent regulatory 23
commission, and it was created initially to regulate 24
railroads.  Now the ICC became the model for 25
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independent regulatory commissions.  And I think it's 1
useful at this point to briefly note that in the 2
United States, the Congress has developed basically a 3
two-pronged approach to regulating industries.4
Where Congress believes that an industry 5
is or can be effectively competitive, or workably 6
competitive, it will rely on the Anti-Trust laws, the 7
Sherman Act, and the Clayton Act.  Where, however, 8
Congress believed that in industry, that competition 9
might not work, either because it believed an industry 10
was a natural monopoly, or because it believed that it 11
was subject to what used to be called destructive 12
competition, it would frequently create an independent 13
regulatory commission, and subject the industry to 14
industry regulation.15
Okay.  Now by 1910, Congress passed the 16
Mann-Elkins Act, which brought interstate 17
telecommunications within the jurisdiction of the ICC, 18
so this was the first time that Congress began to 19
believe, or expressed its belief, that 20
telecommunications was a natural monopoly.21
Okay.  Next 1912, Congress passed the 22
Radio Act following the sinking of the Titanic.  And 23
apparently, during -- as the Titanic was sinking, the 24
radio operator was trying to radio a distress call, 25
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and its location, and unfortunately, the receivers in 1
I think it was Newfoundland, were unable to clearly 2
hear it because of interference by amateur radio 3
operators, so this made Congress recognize the need to 4
regulate the radio spectrum, and it initially gave 5
responsibilities for that to the Secretary of Commerce 6
and Labor.7
Okay.  Then in 1927, Congress passed the 8
Radio Act, which created the Federal Radio Commission 9
with authority to issue radio license, and to assign 10
specific frequencies.  Okay.  Then it was in 1934 that 11
Congress passed the Communications Act, which created 12
the FCC, and which gave FCC basically the powers to 13
regulate not only telecommunications, but also the 14
spectrum and media.15
Now I think it's important to mention sort 16
of a non- statutory event, which was the Sherman Act 17
suit brought by the government against AT&T.  In 1974, 18
the Department of Justice, Anti-Trust Division, sued 19
AT&T for monopolization.  And this suit dragged on for 20
seven years until trial begin in 1981.  And after 21
government presented its case, the parties agreed to a 22
settlement which was confirmed by, or approved by 23
Judge Green, the Federal District Court judge in 1982. 24
This settlement, called the Modification of Final 25
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Judgment, basically provided for the divestiture of 1
AT&T.  AT&T's long distance operations were separated 2
from its local exchange operations, and those local 3
operating companies were reorganized into then seven 4
regional Bell operating companies.  And the Bell 5
operating companies were required to inter-connect 6
equally with all long distance carriers, and were 7
prohibited from competing in the interstate long 8
distance market, or from providing information 9
services, or from manufacturing telecommunications 10
equipment.  But on the other hand, AT&T was free from 11
similar prior restrictions under a 1956 decree, so one 12
of the reasons I mention this is because this ended up 13
being a crucial event in the sort of development of 14
competition in telecommunications.15
Okay.  Three other statutes that are worth 16
mentioning.  The first is the 1984 Act that Congress 17
passed called "The Cable Communications Policy Act", 18
which pre-empted rate regulation, which had been done 19
at the local level, where the Commission found there 20
to be effective competition.21
Now unfortunately, the FCC implemented 22
this law and adopted a standard under which if there 23
were three over-the-air television broadcast stations, 24
it found there to be effective competition.  After 25
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this implementation, much of the U.S., or cable rates 1
in much of the U.S. were deregulated, and this 2
generated consumer complaints.  So in 1992, Congress 3
revisited cable regulation, and basically required 4
cable companies to offer a basic tier, and it allowed 5
local authorities to regulate rates in certain 6
circumstances.7
Okay.  And then finally, in 1996, Congress 8
passed the Telecommunications Act of 1996, which was a 9
most substantial revision of the Communications Act of 10
1934, and which was designed to promote competition in 11
all telecommunications markets, but particularly in 12
local telephone markets.13
Okay.  So that's a brief history.  Now 14
what are the two main governing statutes?  They are, 15
first, the Communications Act of 1934 as it has been 16
amended many times.  And second, is the Administrative 17
Procedure Act of 1946, which has also been amended 18
many times.19
Now this latter Act, which I'm not going 20
to spend much time on, because it sets the general 21
procedural rules with which the FCC must comply, and 22
these rules govern not only rulemaking procedures, but 23
also adjudications.  And the rules, in essence, are 24
intended to ensure that all the Commission and all of 25
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any federal government agency's procedures are open, 1
that they are accessible for public comment, and that 2
they will ensure a reasoned decision-making.3
Okay.  Now I'm not going to spend a lot of 4
time on the Communications Act, but I will just cite 5
-- mention Title I, because it indicates the general 6
purpose of the FCC, which is to regulate interstate 7
and foreign commerce in communications by wire and 8
radio, so as to make available to all the people of 9
the United States, without discrimination, a rapid, 10
efficient nation- wide wire and radio communications 11
service at reasonable rates.  So clearly here, and the 12
fundamental purpose of the Communications Act is a 13
goal to sort of -- is basically a consumer welfare 14
standard.15
Okay.  The second point that's worth 16
making is the Act applies to all interstate and 17
foreign communications by wire or radio, but it 18
generally does not apply to intrastate communications. 19
And this is important, because in the U.S., there has 20
traditionally been a split of regulatory 21
responsibility between the federal government, i.e., 22
the FCC, and state regulatory commissions.  And so 23
that frequently we, at the FCC, will get questions 24
from consumers.  And unfortunately, many of those 25
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questions relate to issues that are within the purview 1
of state regulators and, you know, we will try to 2
provide information, but I think it is important to 3
recognize the sort of limited responsibility of the 4
Commission.5
Okay.  Now I'm not going to go through all 6
the titles of the Communications Act, but I will note 7
just three of those titles, which are substantive 8
titles.  The first is Title II, which regulates common 9
carriers.  And it basically is the title that gives us 10
regulatory authority over telephone companies that 11
provide interstate or foreign communications by wire 12
or radio.13
Title III contains the provisions relating 14
to radio, and it gives the FCC jurisdiction over radio 15
stations, television stations, satellite operators, 16
wireless communications companies, and private 17
wireless providers.  And then finally, there's Title 18
VI, which discusses cable communications.  And it 19
basically defines the relative roles and relative 20
regulatory authority of the FCC on the one hand, and 21
local franchise authorities on the other over cable 22
television companies.  Okay.  Any questions on this 23
general legal background?24
Okay.  Let's talk a little bit about --25
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I'd like to give you just a sense of the size of the 1
communications sector.  And the first slide basically 2
indicates that the communications sector defined 3
broadly, basically now represents 15 percent of U.S. 4
GDP.  This is as of the year 2000, which is the last 5
year for which we have detailed statistics, 6
unfortunately.  And this percentage has been growing 7
steadily over time.8
Now I should note that, and as you can 9
see, this pie chart has three slices, sort of 10
non-communications, a yellow slice that is other 11
communications, then a pink slice that is the 12
telecommunications sector that is directly regulated 13
by the FCC.  Now other includes such things as 14
information services, including computer and data 15
processing.  It includes, also includes telecom 16
apparatus and radio and TV communications equipment, 17
fiber optic cable and equipment, services and support 18
of voice and data communications equipment, and 19
services and support of network infrastructure 20
equipment.21
Okay.  But what the Commission is directly 22
responsible for, represents about 413 or 414 billion, 23
and of those, they basically are split into three 24
large groups.  The largest is telecommunications 25
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itself, which is about 291 billion in 2000.  Second is 1
services provided by multi-video programming 2
distributors, and these include cable companies and 3
direct broadcast satellite firms, among others.  And 4
they represent about 63 and a half billion.  And then 5
there are broadcast TV and radio industry that 6
represents about 60 billion.7
Okay.  And finally, with respect to 8
telecommunications itself, which is the largest part 9
of the communications industry that the Commission 10
regulates, the primary segments there are local 11
exchange at 116 billion, long distance at about 87, 12
and wireless at about 63.13
I guess it's worth noting that the long 14
distance segment has been declining recently, while 15
wireless has been expanding.  In fact, I'm sure many 16
of you now have cell phones, and you probably take 17
advantage of the free buckets of minutes on evenings 18
and weekends, and that's one of the reasons long 19
distance revenues are dropping.  So we're soon going 20
to see wireless, I think displace long distances, the 21
second largest source of revenues, if it has not 22
already done so.23
Okay.  Now let's get to the meat of the 24
talk, and talk about the organization of the FCC.  25
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Well, the FCC actually is a commission that currently 1
employs about 2,000 employees, of which about 900 are 2
attorneys, engineers and economists.  In the federal 3
bureaucracy, that isn't particularly large, though it 4
is quite large if you compare it to telecommunications 5
regulators in some other countries.6
The Commission's budget for Fiscal Year 7
2002 was approximately $245 million.  Most of the 8
activities are funded by regulatory fees at levels set 9
annually by Congress.  And the Commission also 10
collects application fees and, in particular, auction 11
revenues, but we don't get to keep those.  Those go to 12
the U.S. Treasury, so we help the Treasury even though 13
we can't help ourselves.14
Okay.  Now the Commission is headed by a 15
Chairman and four Commissioners, and I'll talk more 16
about those in a second.  It then has six operating 17
bureaus that are organized either by technology or 18
major function, and these operating bureaus are then 19
sub-divided organizationally into divisions and 20
branches.  There are also 10 offices that provide 21
support in key areas.22
Okay.  Let's talk a little bit about the 23
Chairman and the Commissioners.  And again, this 24
organization or the rules governing the Chairman and 25
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the Commissioners sort of harkened back to the 1
original Interstate Commerce Commission, and to the 2
general template for all independent regulatory 3
commissions, so there are an odd number of 4
Commissioners.  There are five including the Chairman. 5
They are appointed by the President.  They are 6
confirmed by the Senate.  They have staggered terms so 7
that there's one Commissioner each year whose term 8
expires.  And by statute, no more than three 9
Commissioners can be from any one party.  In fact, 10
it's always the three Commissioners are from the party 11
that occupies the White House.12
Okay.  Now each Commissioner under the law 13
is entitled to be assisted by three legal advisors.  14
In recent years, those legal advisors have generally 15
specialized, so one will deal with wire line 16
competition issues, one will deal with media issues, 17
and the third will deal with wireless international, 18
and the issues that come up before the Office of 19
Engineering and Technology.20
Okay.  So the current Chairman and 21
Commissioners, the current Chairman is Michael Powell. 22
He's a Republican since the White House is occupied 23
by a Republican, and his term extends until June of 24
2007.  The remaining four Commissioners in 25
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alphabetical order are Commissioner Abernathy, a 1
Republican; Commissioners Adelstein and Copps, 2
Democrats; and Commissioner Martin, a Republican.  And 3
as you see on this chart, their terms, as I indicated 4
before, are staggered.5
Okay.  Now let's turn to the Bureau.  And 6
the first Bureau, as I said before, there are six 7
operating Bureaus.  The first is the Consumer and 8
Governmental Affairs Bureau, and I gather they've 9
spoken to you already.  This Bureau handles consumer 10
inquiries and complaints, and conducts consumer 11
information and education campaigns.  It also 12
coordinates policy efforts with industry and other 13
governmental agencies, including federal, state, local 14
and tribal agencies.15
Okay.  Next is Enforcement Bureau.  The 16
Enforcement Bureau, as the name suggests, enforces the 17
Communications Act, as well as the Commission's rules. 18
Among other things, it resolves complaints by 19
carriers against carriers, by customers against 20
carriers, as well as complaints relating to spectrum 21
interference, radio transmitting towers, and media 22
programming.  Now it's probably worth taking a minute 23
or so to talk about the relative responsibilities for 24
the Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau and 25
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Enforcement Bureau, because both of them handle 1
consumer complaints, but they do it slightly 2
differently.3
Informal complaints generally go to the 4
Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau.  So if 5
someone writes a letter complaining about being 6
slammed by their long distance carrier, that will go 7
to CGB.  If, however, someone were to file a formal 8
complaint, that would go to the Enforcement Bureau.  9
Now the Enforcement Bureau, in addition, will sort of 10
monitor all the informal complaints that CGB receives, 11
so that if it sees a pattern of abuses of consumers, 12
it can then -- it may then decide to file its own 13
enforcement action, a formal enforcement action 14
against a particular carrier.15
Now I should also note that both the CGB 16
and Enforcement Bureaus are relatively new bureaus, 17
and they sort of reflect the increasing 18
competitiveness of telecommunications markets.  In 19
prior years where you had one carrier, there probably 20
were in some sense fewer complaints.  Now that there's 21
more competition, more carriers, there's at least the 22
potential for greater consumer confusion and abuse, 23
and the Commission has responded by creating these two 24
new bureaus.  Okay.  Any questions about the relative 25
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functions of those two bureaus?  Okay.1
The next bureau is the International 2
Bureau.  It regulates international satellite and 3
telecommunications services, and it also represents 4
the Commission on satellite and international matters 5
at domestic and international conferences, so it's the 6
people in the International Bureau that get the good 7
trips. Okay.8
Next is Media Bureau.  The Media Bureau 9
regulates and licenses inter alia, A.M./F.M. radio and 10
television broadcast stations, and it also regulates 11
cable television operators, and it regulates providers 12
of direct broadcast satellite service.13
Okay.  Fifth Bureau is Wireless 14
Telecommunications. It regulates fixed and mobile 15
one-way and two-way terrestrial wireless 16
communications, including communications provided by 17
cellular and PCS phones, pagers and two-way radios.  18
It also regulates the use of radio spectrum by 19
businesses, state and local governments, public safety 20
providers, aircraft and ship operators, harkening back 21
to the Titanic, and individuals.22
And then finally, there's a Wire Line 23
Competition Bureau that basically regulates telephone 24
companies that provide interstate telecommunications 25
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services to the public using wire- based transmission 1
facilities.2
Now as you probably recognize, 3
particularly now with the growth of wireless, there 4
are issues that relate -- I mean, wireless actually 5
does compete with wire line companies, so the Wireless 6
Bureau and the Wire Line Competition Bureau frequently 7
have to cooperate on policy issues that are relevant 8
to both industries.9
Okay.  How are bureaus organized?  Well, 10
I'm going to just describe a certain typical 11
organization, and individual bureaus may vary slightly 12
from that.  Bureaus tend to be run by the front 13
office, and the front office is headed by the Bureau 14
Chief, who is assisted by varying numbers of Deputy 15
Associate and Assistant Bureau Chiefs.  Each bureau 16
also has a Chief of Staff, which is in charge of sort 17
of not only staffing, but certainly administrative 18
areas.  There will be legal advisors.  Most bureaus 19
also have a Chief Economist, a Chief Engineer, and 20
then they will have an Administrative Staff. They will 21
then also have various divisions, and under the recent 22
FCC reorganization, most of the bureaus have a Policy 23
Division, a Licensing Division, and an Industry 24
Analysis and Technical Division.25
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Okay.  And I don't recall the -- I'll just 1
add that the bureaus tend to be the largest 2
organizational bodies within the Commission.  Okay.  3
Now what about the offices?  Well, there are ten 4
different offices that basically perform more 5
specialized functions.  There's the office of -- and I 6
will go through these quickly, and then just talk 7
briefly about two of them. And if you have questions, 8
feel free to ask.9
The first is the Office of Administrative 10
Law Judges, ALJs will preside over any hearings that 11
the Commission might hold.  For example, last year 12
when EchoStar tried to acquire DirectTV, the 13
Commission found that there were substantial issues of 14
fact about whether such an acquisition would be in the 15
public interest, so it designated that application for 16
a hearing before an ALJ.  Now it turns out the parties 17
abandoned the transaction before we held the hearing, 18
but if they had not, we would have conducted a 19
hearing, and the ALJ would then have issued an initial 20
determination, which then would have been reviewed by 21
the Commission.22
Okay.  Second office is the Office of 23
Communications Business Opportunities.  And it 24
provides advice on issues and policies concerning 25
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opportunities for ownership and contracting by small 1
minority and women-owned communications businesses.2
Third is the Office of Engineering and 3
Technology.  It allocates spectrum for non-government 4
use, and provides expert advice on technical issues 5
before the Commission.  Now it turns out that a 6
separate government body, the NTIA, National 7
Telecommunications and Information Administration, 8
which is part of the Department of Commerce, is 9
charged with allocating spectrum for government uses, 10
but NTIA and FCC cooperate closely on spectrum issues, 11
in general.12
Okay.  Fourth is the Office of General 13
Counsel.  They are the Commission's lawyers.  And 14
fifth is the Office of Inspector General, which 15
conducts and supervises audits and investigations 16
relating to the operations of the Commission.17
Now I'll just briefly note that one of 18
Chairman Powell's initiatives was to try to improve 19
the sort of technical expertise of the Commission, and 20
as a result of this initiative, we've hired a number 21
of new and very talented engineers.  And I think that 22
the Commission's sort of ability to understand 23
technical issues, and particularly spectrum issues, 24
has improved significantly under this initiative.  And 25
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much of the expertise is contained within OET.1
Next about the Office of General Counsel, 2
they are the Commission's lawyers, and they represent 3
an incredibly talented group of lawyers.  And the 4
Commission and Bureaus need and generally clear all 5
initiatives through them, so that I can't 6
over-estimate both the importance and the sort of 7
comfort that having good lawyers to advise gives the 8
staff.9
Okay.  And then Office of Inspector 10
General, my view is I hope I don't have to get to know 11
them very well, so can go from there.  Next, Office of 12
Legislative Affairs.  They act as a main contact point 13
with Congress.  Office of Managing Director functions 14
as the Chief Operating Official, serving under the 15
direction and supervision of the Chairman.  Office of 16
Media Relations is the main press contact. Office of 17
Strategic Planning and Policy Analysis, which is the 18
office with which I'm associated, helps the Commission 19
develop a strategic plan identifying both short-term 20
and long-term policy objectives, and it also engages 21
in some sort of research related to telecommunications 22
regulatory issues.  And then finally, there's an23
Office of Workplace Diversity, which advises the 24
Commission on issues related to internal workforce 25
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diversity, affirmative recruitment, and equal 1
employment opportunity.2
And then, of course, there are also 3
multi-bureau task forces and working groups, some of 4
which are wholly internal to the Commission, such as 5
the Media Ownership Working Group, which had -- was 6
staffed from different bureaus and offices, but it 7
also includes some outside councils, such as this one 8
and the Technical Advisory Council.  Okay.  Any 9
questions to date about the organization?10
Okay.  Let's talk a little bit about the 11
decision- making framework.  In general, the 12
Commission conducts two basic types of proceedings.  13
They are first, general rulemaking proceedings, which 14
are really a -- represents a quasi legislative 15
function of the Commission.  And then there are 16
adjudications, which sort of represent a quasi 17
judicial function by the Commission.18
Rulemaking proceedings may be initiated 19
either by a party filing a petition for a rulemaking, 20
or by Congress telling us to initiate a rulemaking, as 21
it did in 1996 when it told the Commission that it had 22
six months to implement and adopt rules implementing 23
the 1996 Telecommunications Act, or it can be 24
initiated on FCC's own motion.25
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Adjudications, in contrast, are initiated 1
either when a party files a petition for waiver of a 2
Commission rule, or files an application for a license 3
or a license transfer, or files a complaint, or 4
requests a declaratory order, or if the Commission 5
files an enforcement action.  So both types of 6
proceedings then can be initiated either by the 7
Commission itself, or by outside parties.8
Okay.  What is the general process?  Well, 9
for both rulemakings and adjudications, there will be 10
an initiating document.  In the case of a rulemaking 11
proceeding, there will be a notice of proposed 12
rulemaking.  In the case of say an application for 13
license transfer, the parties will file an application 14
for transfer, or parties may file a formal complaint. 15
The Commission will then issue a public notice 16
seeking comment, whether it's on the NPRM or the 17
complaint, or the application, and giving the public 18
an opportunity to comment.19
In general, now the length of time that 20
the public notices gives for public comment may vary 21
depending upon the complexity of the issue, the 22
urgency of the issue.  My guess is the most typical 23
comment periods are 30 and 15, but it's frequently 24
longer than that, and on occasion, it can be shorter.25
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Okay.  Following the public notice, the 1
Commission will receive public comments, and then 2
replies.  After this comment cycle, then there's 3
normally a period in which interested parties come in 4
and make ex parte presentations both to Commission 5
staff and to the Commissioners.6
Now under the APA, whenever an interested 7
party comes in to make a presentation, it must within 8
24 hours file a written ex parte notice, which is then 9
filed in the record, that informs the public about 10
exactly the names of everyone at the Commission with 11
whom they met.  And basically, what they told those 12
people, so that we try to keep it as open as possible. 13
And, in fact, in major proceedings what you'll see is 14
there's almost a battle of ex partes as people will 15
come in and present say, an economist's analysis of a 16
particular issue, and then two weeks later an opposing 17
group will come in with their own economist and 18
opposing analysis, and this is very much a part of --19
an important part of developing a good record for 20
Commission decision-making.  So the extent you become 21
interested or involved in Commission proceedings, you 22
can't just read the comments and replies.  You need to 23
go to all the ex partes, as well.24
Okay.  Now once those comments and 25
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replies, and ex partes have been filed, it's then up 1
to the staff to review them, and that can be quite an 2
arduous task.  In implementing the 1996 Telecom Act, I 3
think there were 17,000 pages of comments filed, and I 4
believe there were even more filed this past year in 5
the tri-annual review because they didn't set a page 6
limit.  So it's actually quite a task for the staff, 7
and the ability of some of these young lawyers to 8
actually remember what's said in all these filings is 9
quite impressive.10
Okay.  So the record is reviewed initially 11
by staff, and later by higher level staff on the 12
eighth floor.  And then the staff who are involved in 13
a proceeding will prepare Options Memos and 14
Recommendations for review initially by Branch 15
Managers, and then Division Managers, and then the 16
Bureau Front Office, and then it will go from there.17
Okay.  And then with drafting, likewise 18
you have the similar process of multiple levels of 19
reviews.  The staff attorneys and economists and 20
engineers are working who are working on a particular 21
proceeding will do an initial draft, which will then 22
be reviewed and edited by a senior attorney, and then 23
by branch management, or division management, and 24
finally the front office.  And then generally an item 25
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will go to the Chairman first, and after the Chairman 1
has reviewed it, it will then be distributed to other 2
Commissioners.3
Now items when they get to the Commission 4
may be, some of them may be scheduled for a Commission 5
meeting.  If you are scheduled for a Commission 6
meeting, then there is what is called a Sunshine 7
Period.  And basically, one week before a Commission 8
meeting you'll see a notice being posted on our 9
website that lists all the proceedings or orders that 10
will be taken up at the next Commission meeting.  And 11
as soon as that Sunshine notice is released, all ex 12
parte contacts must cease.  So in case you're involved 13
in any of these proceedings, once you see the Sunshine 14
Notice, the Commission staff can no longer talk to 15
you.16
Besides that, it's a very open process and 17
the Commission had made every effort to try to 18
increase the openness.  And I think the previous -- I 19
wasn't able to hear the entire previous session, but 20
the Commission has spent a lot of effort to try to 21
improve its website so that you can actually easily 22
find - that's too strong.  We've tried to make it as 23
easy as possible to identify comments and replies, and24
ex partes, but I'm sure that there's much more than we 25
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can do to improve that.1
Okay.  What about voting?  Well, the 2
Chairman and Commissioners can either vote to approve 3
an item, they can dissent either in whole or in part, 4
or they can concur in part or in the result.  5
Frequently, if you listen to Commission meetings, when 6
the Commission votes for an item, they will allow for 7
post adoption edits so that the staff can fix typos 8
and little mistakes.  And frequently, the 9
Commissioners and the Chairman may issue separate 10
statements that will be released with an order or 11
notice.  And then finally, with varying periods of 12
time, the item will be released.13
Okay.  Now slide may be more important for 14
staff, but it's probably useful to discuss it briefly 15
here, because the professional staff at the 16
Commission, when we're working on items, are really 17
hounded by the Office of General Counsel, and by more 18
senior attorneys to follow certain rules so that 19
Commission orders when they're released will actually 20
be able to stand up to court challenges.  And among 21
the principles, young lawyers are told that a 22
Commission order must explain and justify the 23
Commission's decision, and it must be based on the 24
record, and on public policy factors.25
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Importantly, it must address all 1
significant issues raised in the record, particularly 2
those raised by parties whose views the Commission is 3
rejecting.  And that's one of the reasons we can get 4
400, 500, 700 page orders, is we need to address all 5
those issues, or we may be reversed.6
A third, we must either follow Commission 7
precedent, or we must explain why we are not following 8
it, and how our order differs from existing Commission 9
precedent.  And we must explain how the order is 10
consistent with governing statutes and case law.11
And then finally, and this is sort of what 12
we call an Administrative Procedure Act Notice Issue, 13
is that any decision the Commission makes must have 14
been a logical outgrowth of a proposal on which 15
comment was sought in the NPRM.  Or to put it another 16
way, if the Commission issues a notice, it has to give 17
people enough of an idea about what it is considering 18
doing.  And if it comes out with something completely 19
different, that will be deemed as not giving the 20
public enough notice, and we can be reversed for that. 21
Okay.  And then finally, at least a summary of all 22
Commission orders must be published in the Federal 23
Register.24
Okay.  Questions at this point about 25
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procedure?  Okay.  Let's talk a little bit about 1
external influences.  And there are a number of what 2
are called stakeholders.  And by the way, this is an 3
aside, but the term "stakeholder" was first coined in 4
a 1956 Stanford Research Institute memorandum, and 5
sort of lost there for a decade or so.  And then it 6
popped up in the sort of academic literature on 7
business and public policy beginning in the late 60s, 8
but then more prominently in the 1970s.  And the basic 9
idea of a stakeholder is that that is a person, group 10
or entity that may affect or may be affected by an 11
organization that is being studied.  And it's become 12
-- corporations are recognizing more these days that 13
they must consider the interests of various 14
stakeholders, including not only consumers, but also 15
their shareholders, or bond holders, regulators.  And 16
similarly, government agencies are being -- coming to 17
recognize that they need to consider the interests and 18
influence of various stakeholders.19
And so what are some of the stakeholders 20
that affect or may be affected by the FCC?  Well, the 21
first is consumers.  And if you go back to that slide 22
where I described Title I of the Communications Act, 23
it's clear that the sort of primary function of the 24
Commission is to serve the interests of consumers.  25
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And so that is one of the paramount concerns in any of 1
the Commission's proceedings.  Second and very 2
influential stakeholder is Congress, because Congress 3
can affect us either through oversight hearings, 4
through the appropriations process, or through 5
legislation.  Third is the courts.6
During the time I was in the Common 7
Carrier Bureau, all but one of the proceedings I 8
worked on was appealed, and if you make a mistake, the 9
courts will reverse you.  And so the courts have 10
enormous impact on Commission precedent.11
To give you another example, when the 12
Commission implemented the 1996 Act, we adopted rules 13
which were almost immediately vacated by the Eighth 14
Circuit, and it took until was it January of 1999 or 15
June of 1999, basically three years until the Supreme 16
Court finally reversed the Eighth Circuit, and said 17
that the Commission had authority to issue those 18
rules.  And a few months later, the Eighth Circuit 19
came back and invalidated our pricing rules on 20
substantive grounds, not on jurisdictional grounds.  21
So those were again vacated until June of 2002.  So 22
basically, for seven years some of our rules were not 23
in effect, so courts are incredibly important.24
You also obviously need to consider 25
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industry and other interested parties.  If you look at 1
Commission proceedings, you'll find that not only will 2
the particular regulated entities file comments, but 3
also other entities, such as firms that are supplying 4
equipment, or other firms that use facilities that may 5
be affected. And then there are other groups that will 6
file, for example, Consumer Federation of America 7
frequently files comments in Commission proceedings.8
Next there are other federal departments 9
and agencies with which the Commission interacts, and 10
which can affect the Commission.  Department of 11
Justice, Federal Trade Commissions, MTIA and State.  12
In the case of the Department of Justice and the 13
Federal Trade Commission, we cooperate with them 14
extensively in reviewing mergers.  In cases of, and 15
I'm being a bit loose here so I hope you won't 16
criticize me for being too imprecise, but basically, 17
for mergers involving common carriers, and for mergers 18
that involve a transfer of a wireless license, those 19
must receive approval from the FCC, and in most cases, 20
they must also, if they exceed the Hart-Scott-Rodino 21
Anti-Trust thresholds, they must be notified both to 22
the FCC and the Department of Justice Anti-Trust 23
Division.  And one of those two Anti-Trust agencies 24
will then review the transaction.25
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Typically, we obtain from the parties a 1
waiver of the Hart-Scott-Rodino confidentiality rules 2
so that we can talk with lawyers at the Department of 3
Justice of the FTC, and discuss issues raised by the 4
merger, so we cooperate very closely on this, and this 5
is something that's -- I think the Commission has made 6
a great deal of effort on over the past few years, and 7
I think the level of cooperation has increased.8
As I indicated before, we also work with 9
and cooperate with NTIA in many spectrum issues, and 10
at various points, this varies somewhat with the 11
administration, but NTIA frequently will file comments 12
in proceedings, and we will generally give 13
considerable deference - deference isn't the right 14
word, but we will certainly consider seriously those 15
comments.  And we also work with the State Department 16
in many instances.17
Okay.  Next stakeholder group are states 18
and state regulatory commissions.  As I indicated 19
early-on, since the early 20th Century, responsibility 20
for regulating telecommunications companies has been 21
split between the states and the federal government.  22
And it has been important that the two regulatory 23
bodies communicate and cooperate.24
Now almost necessarily, there are tensions 25
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at times, but I think the Commission and the states 1
have generally made real efforts to try to develop 2
policies, work together and develop policies that 3
further consumer interest, though that obviously can 4
always be improved.5
Okay.  We also work with the international 6
organizations.  And finally, of course, we need to 7
deal or we need to work with, and we recognize the 8
importance of the press.9
Okay.  Now there are also sort of specific 10
checks on FCC authority. I mean, before we were 11
talking about sort of stakeholder groups.  Here are 12
groups that can actually really affect us, and the 13
first is judicial review.  Courts can, or parties that 14
disagree with FCC decisions can appeal them to Federal 15
Courts of Appeal, and if we haven't adequately 16
justified them, the court will reverse, and frequently 17
vacate the Commission's decision.18
IN some cases where a Federal Court of 19
Appeals has vacated the decision, or even if they've 20
affirmed it, aggrieved parties may then petition the 21
Supreme Court to take the case.  And I believe there 22
have been over four different Supreme Court cases that 23
have just involved implementation of the 1996 Act.  24
And then, of course, there is also legislative review 25
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and oversight, and this can be direct; such as, 1
Congress can pass an act like the Telecommunications 2
Act, which the Commission will then implement.  But 3
it's also indirect in the sense that Congress can 4
change our budget, and so we certainly cannot ignore 5
the interest of Congress.6
Now this last section on public trust 7
safeguards was intended primarily for the new 8
employees, but I'll just briefly touch on it because I 9
actually think it's an extremely important part of 10
maintaining the integrity of a regulatory process.  11
All sorts of rules that apply to employees that are 12
intended to ensure that they aren't unduly influenced 13
by outside parties, or that they won't be bribed, or 14
influenced by the prospect of a job on the outside.  15
So, for example, there are specific rules limiting 16
gifts from outside sources, and a prohibition on 17
bribery.  There are rules that limit the ability of 18
Commission staff to invest in companies that are 19
regulated by the Commission, because that might affect 20
our decisions.  And even, there are also rules 21
regulating the investment by family members.  There 22
are also rules affecting both the work that a new 23
employee can do, if he or she were previously in the 24
private sector, or what work they can do if they leave 25
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government and go to a company that is regulated by 1
the Commission.2
And then probably most importantly from -3
I shouldn't say most importantly from an ethical 4
basis, but most relevant to you, is that there are 5
various rules that require employees to keep 6
Commission deliberations confidential.  And so, for 7
example, pre-decisional Commission documents and 8
decisions are not public, options, memos, drafts, that 9
kind of stuff.10
In addition, certain documents filed by 11
parties may be subject to confidential treatment 12
and/or protective orders.  So, for example, in many 13
proceedings, parties may have information that's 14
highly relevant to a Commission decision, but on the 15
other hand contains sensitive business information 16
that they would not want to disclose to competitors, 17
so we have various procedures where we can allow 18
access on a limited basis that's intended to protect 19
the business that is sensitive, the business 20
sensitivity of the documents, but that allows both the 21
Commission and public to comment on.22
Okay.  We also have internal procedures 23
that govern certain highly sensitive proceedings, and 24
that the employees are frequently reminded about the 25
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importance of complying with.  Now these procedures 1
are sort of inculcated constantly by managers on the 2
staff saying - and I think it's very important.  At 3
times though for outside parties, it can be 4
frustrating because there are certain times where an  5
outsider calls us and asks for information, we simply 6
can't respond because it would be revealing some 7
information that we're prohibited from revealing, so I 8
think the Commission staff generally tries to be as 9
open with the public as possible, but we are 10
constrained by these confidentiality requirements.11
Okay.  I'm actually a little bit ahead of 12
time, so we do have some time for questions.  But I 13
did want to mention the Internet site.  The Commission 14
has put a lot of effort into it, and there's a lot of 15
information there.  To the extent you have suggestions 16
on how to improve it, I think they'd be welcome.  And 17
then my contact information is at the bottom of the 18
last page, and again, I'd be happy to have you e-mail 19
me any questions you might have, and certainly any 20
suggestions on things I could do to improve this 21
presentation.22
CHAIR ROOKER:  I do have a question.  This 23
is the Chair.  Can I ask a question?  May I ask a 24
question?25
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MR. STOCKDALE: Please, feel free.1
CHAIR ROOKER:  Early on you mentioned the 2
difference between an informal complaint and a formal 3
complaint.  This is rather confusing to consumers, 4
because we usually send people here if they have 5
something that has to do with communications, because 6
we feel it's important for them to register a 7
complaint with you, even though we may be handling it 8
ourselves.9
We've had people come back to us and say 10
well, I followed -- they told me it was an informal 11
complaint.  What does that mean?  Can you define the 12
difference?  You mentioned it.  Shame on you.13
MR. STOCKDALE:   I know.  It is a shame on 14
me.  I knew this was going to happen.15
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, that's okay.  Maybe 16
we should -- I can ask that question of someone else. 17
I didn't mean to put you on the spot.18
MR. STOCKDALE:  I think probably someone 19
from the Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau can 20
better do it.  My understanding is that with informal 21
complaints, it's basically very - as the name suggests 22
- it's informal.  People can simply write a letter in 23
explaining the problem. It will go to Consumer and 24
Government Affairs Bureau, someone will handle it.  25
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Depending upon the nature of the complaint, they may 1
contact the carrier and try to resolve it.2
Formal complaints are basically subject to 3
the full APA requirements for an adjudication, and 4
then you're subject to all the rules about filing 5
requirements and things like that.6
CHAIR ROOKER:  I think, unfortunately, and 7
maybe this is what we should discuss at another point 8
as Scott said, but I think sometimes consumers think 9
an informal complaint means you're not really taking 10
it seriously.  So perhaps -- I mean, that's the 11
feeling that we've gotten from consumers, so perhaps 12
we should address this at another meeting, so let me 13
just withdraw that.  Okay.14
MR. STOCKDALE:  Okay.15
CHAIR ROOKER:  Does anyone else have 16
questions?  No.  Well, we would like to thank you 17
very, very much for give us insight into the 18
Commission.  I think what we can do then, let's take 19
an early break. Be back here at 20 after, so that we 20
can start working on our working groups.  Oh, that was 21
kind of redundant, wasn't it?  Anyway, please be back 22
at 20 after 3.  That gives you 10 minutes.23
(Whereupon, the proceeding in the 24
above-entitled matter went off the record at 3:09:01 25
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p.m. and went back on the record at 3:23:37 p.m.)1
CHAIR ROOKER:  We have a number of 2
important items we need to take care of, and the most 3
important one is for us to identify some of the issues 4
that we want to address over the coming months.  And 5
our working groups can be quite flexible in terms of 6
the length of time they stay in existence.  A working 7
group could be from just now until July, or it could 8
be from now until the end of the charter runs out, so 9
it will depend on the complexity of the issues that we 10
choose to address.11
At any rate, I've heard a lot of things 12
from a number of you today.  I'm hoping that you're 13
eager to jump in and start forming some working 14
groups.  The working groups can -- we would like to 15
start out at least with three of them, and they can be 16
composed of five or six people.  You can designate 17
your own chair of the working group, if you wish, 18
however you want to do that.  But the main idea is for 19
us to identify issues that we want to bring to the 20
Commission, issues that we think need addressing.  I, 21
for one, am going to volunteer to see if we can get 22
the name of the -- to change the names of the 23
complaint process, because consumers are very confused 24
when they call here and say -- and they've been told 25
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they've filed an informal complaint, and they think 1
that means it's not going to be taken seriously.  And 2
that is not what it means, so that's going to be one 3
of the things, and that's just a minor issue.  So what 4
I'd like to do is to open the microphones.  Just hold 5
your hand up, and give us your name before you make a 6
-- and that's for the transcript, folks.  I know who 7
you are now.  You can't hide, but I need that for the 8
transcript, and so that we can get this process 9
started.  So does somebody want to jump in?  Oh, Scott 10
wants to make some comments.  Do you think we should 11
let him talk?  Okay.12
MR. MARSHALL:  Just a couple of logistical 13
comments about how the working groups have worked in 14
the past, and how we would be able to support you in 15
this endeavor. In the ideal world, it would be 16
wonderful to have travel money to bring groups to town 17
to have face-to-face time, but unfortunately that's 18
not possible.19
What we've done in the past is these 20
groups have worked primarily via e-mail, and we can 21
set up a private e-mail discussion list for your 22
particular group so that this will facilitate your 23
e-mail communication.  We can also have conference 24
calls, if that's appropriate.  That sometimes can be 25
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difficult though, for people who are deaf or hard-of 1
hearing, but again, we can work on that issue, and the 2
possible way of getting time for your group to work 3
together.4
If you're local here in Washington, you're 5
certainly welcome to have a meeting here, and I'll try 6
to facilitate that.  And as always, if a working group 7
needs a resource person from the Commission to help 8
provide some information, I'll do my best to find that 9
right person so that the working group can have that 10
technical expertise at its disposal while you're 11
developing recommendations.12
And as Paula said earlier, and I think we 13
mentioned this morning briefly, the working groups 14
have to come up with the recommendations, which then 15
go to the full committee.  And only the full committee 16
then can comment to the FCC or provide recommendations 17
to the FCC.18
And as Shirley indicated, we'd like to get 19
these working groups started.  We don't have to have 20
all of them done today.  We could develop them on an 21
ad hoc basis as issues come up, but it would be great 22
if we could get something working so that we could 23
have a couple of reports back in July, realizing that 24
that's only going to be a couple of months away.  But 25
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we're ready to roll up our sleeves and help you in 1
whatever way we can.  That's it.2
CHAIR ROOKER:  Oh, very well, Scott.  You 3
helped make us much more informed.  Thank you.  He 4
always makes me more informed.  I do know that a 5
couple of people left early, did have some comments.  6
I think Dixie was wanting to be on something, did she 7
not, Scott?  TRS, so she's interested in starting a 8
TRS working group.9
MR. MARSHALL:  She doesn't want to chair 10
it.11
CHAIR ROOKER:  So anyway, is there someone 12
else interested in participating in a working group on 13
TRS?  Rebecca.  Who else, anyone?  Brenda.  Joe.14
MR. GORDON:  May I suggest that a TRS 15
working group might be part of a disability access 16
group, and more than one topic be covered?17
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, I'll tell you, we 18
tried that last term.  We had subcommittees set up for 19
disability access, and that was the title of the 20
subcommittee.  We found that it was not terribly 21
effective to do that, that we really needed to focus 22
on issues.  That's why we've given up on the concept 23
of putting together subcommittees because they just 24
didn't work.  Some of them worked better than others. 25
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But what we found was when we gave a group of people 1
a specific charge to work on a specific issue, it was 2
much more effective.  I mean, how do the rest of you 3
feel about it?  Claude.4
MR. STOUT:  Shirley, I have to politely 5
disagree with you.  I feel that we should have a 6
disability access group, the reason being is say if we 7
start with the Commission today, we make a list of 8
main concerns or issues, and we have two years to work 9
with that Commission and also with the FCC.  If we 10
have a work group that only has one issue, it kind of 11
delays actions, or research, or analysis on other 12
issues.13
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.14
MR. STOUT:  And besides that, we're going 15
to be discussing general consumer issues.  Do you kind 16
of see the point I'm trying to make?17
CHAIR ROOKER:  I do, Claude.  Actually, I 18
do see what your point is.  I think what - are you 19
saying that by having the broader group - well, let me 20
- Rich has got something to comment.  See if he can 21
help me.22
MR. ELLIS:  The problem that we had last 23
time around was we had one committee that had such a 24
big basket of issues to study, that we kind of didn't 25
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make a lot of progress in a lot of areas.  And I think 1
what Shirley's aim is this time, if I understand it 2
properly, is to have more groups more focused in.3
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yes.4
MR. ELLIS:  So you could have more than 5
one working group addressing disability issues.  It 6
doesn't mean because you're doing one, you can't do 7
another.  It just means that you have people who are 8
tasked to study specific topics, as opposed to the 9
whole general concern.  I think last time what 10
happened was the committees got so over-extended that 11
nothing got done.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yeah.  That's exactly 13
right.  And thank you, Rich, for clarifying that, 14
because that is really what we're saying, is that 15
there could be multiple groups working on multiple 16
disability issues.  Nothing is going to get missed by 17
us if it's important to you, because that's -- our 18
goal is to listen to what you're saying.  But what we 19
found is that it just didn't function very well that 20
way, when we had this charge of broad issues.  So 21
perhaps what we should do is, if you want to set up a 22
disabilities committee and identify some priority 23
items, but we tried that last time and it just simply 24
didn't seem to work.25
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Now let me hear from others about it.  1
Larry had his -- stick your hand up, Larry, so the 2
microphone will know where you are.  Okay.  Give us 3
your name.4
MR. GOLDBERG:  Larry Goldberg.  I think 5
those of us who did work on disabilities issues last 6
time were exactly frustrated the way you said.  A 7
thousand issues, and through no fault of our own 8
except multiple pregnancies, the chairman of that 9
group just didn't have the time to put the time into 10
it.  And the returning members or the people who were 11
watching last time absolutely agree, they want to see 12
more traction on the key issues.  It could be done 13
vertically with a lot of disability issues, but 14
knowing full well that we would absolutely have to 15
narrow those rapidly down to the five or six we have 16
to deal with.  And I think we are prepared to do that. 17
We could go for multiple groups, as well, and maybe 18
they -- if we could actually rapidly deal with one in 19
three months and be done with it, but I think we're 20
already so focused since the last two years, we 21
learned a very big lesson then.22
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yes.23
MR. GOLDBERG:  And David will probably 24
have some comment, as well.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Yeah, a lot of comments 1
here.  I saw Joy's hand, and I saw Eugene's, and then 2
David's.  Okay.  Joy, over here.3
MS. RAGSDALE:  I wasn't part of the 4
Committee last year, and I'm thankful to have the 5
opportunity now, but when reviewing the archives of 6
the formal organization, I believe there were only two 7
filings and one ex parte communication with the 8
Commission.  And I thought if we could narrow and9
focus our goals, then we might find we're more 10
productive, and really make a difference and are more 11
active before the Commission, and can address a number 12
of issues.13
CHAIR ROOKER:  You're right, Joy. That's 14
exactly what we thought with the idea of doing 15
subcommittees.  We found nothing was happening, and 16
that was where we were.  Thank you.  Eugene.17
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Eugene Seagriff.  I 18
participated as a member of the public on the 19
disability committee last year, and what I'd like to 20
suggest as a possible opportunity is, you know, today 21
the FCC laid out for us the goals that are most 22
important to them, you know, broadband, spectrum, 23
media.  And I think (a) our input would be more 24
valuable if we also aligned ourselves with the things 25
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that they're currently considering.  And in each of 1
those, of course, there are disability issues that 2
need to be addressed.  And perhaps we can be more 3
effective if we break it into the pieces that match 4
the way the FCC is thinking about things, and include 5
disability issues in our deliberations of those items.6
CHAIR ROOKER:  I think that makes sense to 7
look at what the FCC has on its plate right now, and 8
look at areas that we might be able to make some 9
contributions.  Did I read that right?  Yeah.  Okay.  10
Thank you.  David.  Hold your hand up so she knows 11
where you are.  If you all see me doing pointing, it's 12
because -- so they can turn the microphones on for us.13
MR. POEHLMAN:  This is David Poehlman with 14
the American Council of the Blind.  Sort of keying off 15
what Larry said, and a couple of other things gone on 16
here.  One thing, I think that we might want to keep 17
in mind is if we break up into smaller groups, 18
historically smaller groups get more done.  But 19
there's nothing to say that you can't join more than 20
one group at a time.  The only conflict might be is if 21
both groups are meeting on the same day, at the same 22
time.  You might have to decide which one you want to 23
go to.24
CHAIR ROOKER:  Scott's a good traffic 25
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manager.1
MR. POEHLMAN:  Now on the other side, 2
there's a couple of things.  One of the things that we 3
asked for last time, and we're getting it now is more 4
clear direction from the FCC as to what they'd like to 5
see from us, and what their plans are, and what issues 6
concern them, you know, most, or what they've 7
received, and what's on their plate.  And I think we 8
saw a good bit of that today, and I imagine that we'll 9
see a lot more of that kind of communication in the 10
future.11
There has been a very strong interest from 12
the Commission in what we have to say, and what we 13
would like to see done, and input to them, to the 14
Commission concerning the issues that -- not only the 15
issues that they are dealing with at this point in 16
time, but also as things go forward, and also from our 17
perspective.18
I've been reading over the charter, and 19
all the related materials that form the foundation for 20
the CSE, you know, I see that there is a lot of work 21
to be done.  So to bottom this out, we also learned 22
some lessons from the last round.  And one of the 23
lessons, or the key lesson that we learned is that, 24
you know, we really do need to be as clear as quickly 25
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as possible in determining and, you know, setting our 1
priorities and agendas and process management, and 2
just going forward with it.  So I can see the benefit 3
of having several, you know, two or three large groups 4
and small groups, and I can also see the advantage of 5
having just small groups.  So, you know, I liked the 6
idea last time of having large groups.  One of the 7
things I like about the small group approach though, 8
is that we can get a wider mix of people across 9
stakeholder lines involved in some of the different 10
issues, because I know that some of us around this 11
table, some of us in this room have our feet in 12
several houses.  And, you know, wear several hats and, 13
you know, are involved in several things.  You know, 14
some of us who are involved with disabilities are not 15
just involved with disabilities, so I think that 16
characterizes the group.  And I think it could be, you 17
know, very effective to utilize small groups.18
CHAIR ROOKER: Well, some of the things if 19
we -- just a minute, Joe.  Some of the things, if you 20
go back and look at  -- I mean, I have a list here of 21
what's on the Express page of the ECFS, and some of 22
the things that you're mentioning, like the TRS, 23
people already interested in forming a working group. 24
There's the broadband, plug-and-play, E-911 Services 25
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which is a critical issue for many, many of us.  Also, 1
the rural wireless service, so there's a lot of issues 2
here, going back to Eugene's comment, that is before 3
the FCC right now that we could work on.4
For example, they're looking at the 5
telephone solicitations.  Now we did make 6
recommendations to the Commission on that issue last 7
year.  So now who else has a comment they want to 8
make?  Joe.  Stick your hand up so she can find you.9
MR. GORDON:  Hi, Joe Gordon.  The only 10
suggestion I make whether you have one large committee 11
or smaller committees, that enough time on future 12
agendas be left open for these committees to make 13
presentations.14
CHAIR ROOKER:  Oh, yes.15
MR. GORDON:  I think that might have been 16
lacking in the past.17
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, we're tried to have 18
feedback. Sometimes we didn't have reports from the 19
subcommittees, so it was kind of hard to get some of 20
them. But at any rate, what we really want to do is to 21
get everybody's voice in here, and to get something 22
that's productive.  It took us a while last year, the 23
beginning of our two years before, to figure out what 24
we were doing and how to do it, and I think we learned 25
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some valuable lessons.  And hopefully, we'll benefit 1
from that.  Larry, stick your hand way up so she can 2
see you.  There you go.  Oh, I'm sorry.  Claude's 3
next.  Okay.4
MR. GOLDBERG:  As a suggestion then, to 5
perhaps not -- if it's desired not to have a vertical 6
group that's just about disability issues, I think 7
there are three issues that do cut across everyone's 8
concerns.  One of them is broadband.  It's of deep 9
concern to the disability community.  Access to 10
broadband content and services, and I'm guessing lots 11
of people here are interested in broadband.  The 12
second one is the complaint process.  Everyone is 13
concerned about this complaint process, and finding a 14
way to streamline it.  And the third one is 15
enforcement of existing rules.16
There's a lot of rules on the books 17
already that don't seem to be enforced.  And it 18
doesn't take a new rule to take a look at what we 19
could do to recommend to the Commission that some of 20
these existing rules have enforcement.21
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Claude, you had a 22
comment.  Claude, you had your hand up.23
MR. STOUT:  I want to just support what 24
Larry just said.  If you set up those three groups, 25
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then we could have a disability access filter type of 1
arrangement where, you know, we can work on each of 2
these areas like he said, enforcement, compliance and 3
broadband.  What was your third one, Larry?4
CHAIR ROOKER:  Complaint process.5
MR. STOUT:  And complaint. Okay.  Right.  6
So the disability group, we could work on each, 7
conclude from each of these issues how to apply 8
disability access into those issues and, you know, 9
verify that information.  But I'd like to know what 10
other general consumer issues are concerns of the rest 11
of the Committee.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Good question.  13
Let's get comments here.  Susan had her hand up.14
MS. MAZRUI:  This is Susan Palmer from --15
CHAIR ROOKER:  Oh, I'm sorry, Vernon.  16
You're next.17
MS. MAZRUI:  Oh, I'm sorry.18
CHAIR ROOKER:  Go ahead.  Go ahead.19
MS. MAZRUI:  Me?20
CHAIR ROOKER:  Go ahead, yeah.21
MS. MAZRUI:  I'm from Cingular Wireless.  22
I think there's also a consumer participation or input 23
issue in terms of the electronic filing.  And I think 24
we need to look at it.  I'm assuming there may be an 25
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issue.  I think it's something we need to examine, how 1
are seniors participating and taking advantage of the 2
Express.  How are people with disabilities who are 3
using screen readers or other electronic access modes 4
interacting with that?  And how are they getting 5
information, so I think that's a general one that 6
covers both seniors and people with disabilities.  And 7
maybe it's even broader than that.8
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Vernon, down here at 9
the end.  There you go.  Thank you, Vernon.10
MR. JAMES:  Thank you, Shirley.  This is 11
going to be difficult for me to explain.  Maybe it 12
won't be if I take Larry's example, and Eugene's 13
statement about the strategic goals that the FCC wants 14
to address, broadband competition, spectrum, media, 15
Homeland Security, modernizing FCC.  We have all the 16
interests in rural America.  Our reservation has a lot 17
of interest in these areas. Unfortunately, many 18
reservations, including rural America, don't have the 19
services that are enjoyed in populated cities or 20
larger towns.  I propose to address those issues as 21
far as rurality.22
The problems of the western half of the 23
United States as it relates to geography and some of 24
the natural barriers to wireless, to wire line, the 25
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cost of wire line per mile, the cost of infrastructure 1
to provide communication services in general.  Rural 2
America does not always get addressed, and I would 3
like to champion that cause, if I may, as part of any 4
committee.  Thank you.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, there is -- the rural 6
wireless service is one of the issues that's before 7
the FCC right now, which fits into what your comments 8
are.  We're going to have to at some point making some 9
progress on forming working groups.  I mean, from your 10
comments, I have a feeling that that is the way you 11
tend to go. Am I wrong?  I know that Claude disagrees 12
with that, but from my experience as the Chair of this 13
the last two years, the working groups are just -- the 14
subcommittees were just not effective.  I take that 15
back.  Some of them were, but overall it was generally 16
a lot of effort on our part to try to get reports put 17
together, and some of them did a really good job.  18
Andrea's group did a really good job.  Thank you.  But 19
it was hard, because they were too large, and they 20
just were not effective.  They just weren't focused.  21
And some of them would spend hours trying to get 22
focused and it never happened.  That's why I really 23
believe if we can give this concept of working groups 24
a chance, because I think we'll be able to accomplish 25
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a lot more because we can address disability issues, 1
consumer issues, all kinds of issues within small 2
working groups, put together recommendations to the 3
Commission, which is what we are charged with doing, 4
and be much more effective.  So is it agreeable with 5
you if we move in that direction?  Okay.6
All right.  Having said that, we already 7
have formed a -- yes, Claude.8
MR. STOUT:  I think you and I don't 9
necessarily disagree on how we arrive at a solution, 10
and I just want to make that clear.  I think you want 11
to see the working groups work, you know, on 12
everything, you know, and progress and that's great.  13
I agree with you on that.  But I'm thinking if we had 14
a disability access subcommittee we could come up with 15
the issues that way.  But that subcommittee, for 16
example, to make work -- could have its own working 17
groups as a part of it.  I think in the past, the 18
Disability Access Subcommittee didn't have working 19
groups to accomplish anything of the big initiatives 20
it wanted to.  I remember in the first two years, the 21
subcommittee was trying to identify itself, to figure 22
out the purpose of its work and its functions, and so 23
I don't know.  My suggestion would be that we continue 24
with working groups and that's fine, but also have the 25
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Disability Access Group have a subcommittee where they 1
have several working groups as a part of that 2
subcommittee.3
CHAIR ROOKER:  The only problem with that 4
is then you have a little group on their own working 5
on issues that may be worked on with the rest of the 6
organization, of the committee, so I'm not sure that 7
that would really work, Claude.  I respectfully 8
disagree with you, and I believe that we have a 9
consensus here that we should move forward with the 10
working groups.  If we don't find out that's working, 11
we'll come back to you, Claude, and apologize, and do 12
something different.  But I respect your input on 13
this, but I feel that we're going to accomplish what 14
you want to accomplish, which is addressing disability 15
issues in a more effective way because we'll have 16
input from the entire Committee.  The groups will be 17
formed, the working groups will be formed from the 18
entire Committee, which I think is more valuable than 19
just a subcommittee.20
All right.  Let's -- can we move forward 21
then in determining what are the things that you would 22
like to see the Committee working on, our working 23
groups working on?  That I need to hear from you.  24
Don.  Stick your hand up.  There you go.25
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MR. SNOOP:  One of the things that I 1
mentioned when I first came in, and I think that's 2
going to be more and more prevalent to the consumer is 3
digital issues, broadband issues, technology, emerging 4
technology.  Like I'm using right now VDSL, absolutely 5
nothing about it.  Small phone companies are getting 6
into it, the RBOCs haven't really addressed it, except 7
for Qwest, and they kind of put it on the back burner, 8
so there's a lot that the Commission can do to 9
influence the growth of this part of the industry, 10
which is part of broadband.  And at some point, I 11
think that should be one of our goals.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  So Don is suggesting 13
that we set up a broadband working group.  Do you want 14
to -- should we be more specific and give them 15
something -- broadband is a very large issue.  Some of 16
the things before the Commission right now are the 17
broadband access over telephone networks and Internet 18
access service over the telephone lines.  I don't 19
know.  What are your thoughts?  I mean, I'm not an 20
expert on broadband.21
MR. SNOOP:  If we could just add digital 22
TV and all the things going on with that, like HDTV 23
right now is a big issue with the FCC.  They don't 24
quite know how to deal with that, especially on the 25
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must-carry side.1
CHAIR ROOKER:  And how would you focus 2
this group?  Give me some key words as to what we're 3
asking people to participate in.  I think it's a great 4
idea.  Think about that.  Eugene has a comment.  We'll 5
come back to you.6
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Actually, it's a request.  7
The things on the ECFS Express and the strategic goals 8
list that Margaret reviewed today, could we get the 9
docket numbers that go with those things so we can 10
look into the angles that need to be addressed, and 11
then we can perhaps be better informed about how to 12
divide up and target, because there will be areas.  As 13
you pointed out, each area is rather wide, and there's 14
a lot of facets to it.  And my strong feeling is if we 15
really want to influence the FCC's current activity, 16
we've got to align our activity with the way they're 17
going.18
CHAIR ROOKER:  Right.  Exactly.19
MR. SEAGRIFF:  And along the way, address 20
the rural issues, address the disability issues, 21
address the issues of this wide variety of 22
stakeholders that they've consciously assembled to 23
help them deliberate about these very issues.24
CHAIR ROOKER:  Right.25
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MR. SEAGRIFF:  If we can get that 1
information --2
CHAIR ROOKER:  May I make a suggestion?3
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Yes.4
CHAIR ROOKER:  Can we form a broadband 5
working group and let them decide which issues they 6
take in priority.7
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Sure, and I'd like to be on 8
that group.9
CHAIR ROOKER:  Based upon the docket 10
information that we will get to you via e-mail.  Does 11
that work?  All right.  Who would like to be -- and 12
I'll come back to the people who have their hands up. 13
Ron and Matt are next, and Susan and -- let me get a 14
little progress here if I could.15
All right.  So who wants to work on the 16
broadband working group?  Okay.  We've got Eugene, 17
Matt, Cindy, David, sorry.  I don't even know who I 18
am.  David Poehlman and David Brugger.  Two Davids.  19
Okay.  And are all you wanting to be on the broad --20
okay.  Vernon, Rich, Ron, Larry, Don and Debra.  Won't 21
work.  There's too many people, and Karen.  Okay.  22
I'll tell you what I suggest.  I love the interest in 23
this, and it really is a compelling topic.  I think 24
why don't we do this?  Why don't we come up with the 25
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docket information.  Is one of you willing to act as 1
the point person or chair of this?  Not to pull the 2
documents together, but to just coordinate the e-mails3
and get people signed up to the various aspects within 4
this group.  Larry would do that.  Thank you, Larry.  5
We love people who volunteer.6
Okay.  My goodness.  I love this.  So what 7
you can do is within your own self, much as Claude was 8
suggesting, you can form some of the working groups 9
that you want to deal with in terms of broadband, or 10
whatever, or if you want to work on one issue as a 11
whole group.  I think that would be up to you.12
Now I apologize to the people who had 13
their hands up before we were trying to do this.  Ron, 14
you had a comment.  You want to stick your hand up so 15
we can identify you.16
MR. MALLARD:  Actually, you've kind of 17
answered my question, because you've given us as a 18
Committee the opportunity to kind of create our own 19
agenda, and one of those things that I was going to 20
suggest when you were looking for examples is the 21
protection of consumer -- customer service standards 22
for cable modem services offering high speed data.  23
And that's no longer a cable service; therefore, it is 24
outside of the authority of local governments to 25
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provide any kind of protection to customers, or 1
guarantees of customer service standards.  And that's 2
certainly something that the Commission, I'm sure, is 3
looking into, but it's also a very high agenda for 4
most local governments throughout the United States.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Thank you.  I want 6
to just go over and make sure that I didn't miss 7
anyone who is interested in being in broadband.  Let 8
me just read it now, and if I missed you, holler.  9
Eugene, Matt, Cindy, David P., David B., Vernon, Rick, 10
Rich, Ron, Larry, Debra, Don and Karen, and Tom.  11
Okay.  All right.  That's half the group.  And Mike, 12
you have a comment or you want to volunteer for 13
something?  Okay.  Go ahead.14
MR. DUKE:  It would be good to form the 15
groups and then let us figure out where we can best 16
serve, I think.  I mean, I would like to serve on the 17
broadband group, but there's quite a few people on 18
that already, but I'd also like to know what else is 19
coming up.20
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, that's what we're 21
trying to do.  So what do you suggest?  Put you on the 22
spot.23
MR. DUKE:  Well, yeah.  I don't know that 24
I have a suggestion at this point, other than I'd like 25
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to know what the other groups are, so I have to pick 1
where I want to work.2
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  That's what we're 3
trying to accomplish today.  Susan, I think you had 4
your hand up a while ago, and I totally ignored you, 5
and I'm sorry.6
MS. MAZRUI:  Actually, you answered my 7
question, so you didn't.8
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  All right. Let's 9
see.  I think Rich had his hand up, and then Tom.10
MR. ELLIS:  Shirley, it might make sense 11
in the short term to focus ourselves by going by what 12
the Commission sees as priorities right now, rather 13
than bringing all kinds of new issues in.  If we want 14
to make a quick start and then get something done 15
fast, it might make sense to talk about the things 16
that Margaret discussed this morning --17
CHAIR ROOKER:  Right.18
MR. ELLIS:  -- that the Commission is 19
seeking input on, and focus on those initially, and 20
then branch out afterwards on other issues.21
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  I think that makes 22
sense.  And yeah, that's kind of where we were 23
focusing here for a minute.  Susan.24
MS. MAZRUI:  Yeah.  I'd like to respond to 25
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that.  This is Susan Palmer.  I think that's a good 1
idea, but I don't want to exclude other groups because 2
I think that there's a situation like Vernon brought 3
up where it's not going to fall into what their 4
priorities are, but are very separate from what we're 5
going to see in those four categories.6
There's a serious issue that I perceive in 7
terms of consumer participation in the process.  I 8
mean, we're talking about looking at the Express, you 9
know, looking at information through that, and that's 10
not accessible.  And so I think that that's another 11
issue that's a broad one, that's not going to be on 12
their priorities, but maybe the information or the 13
issues around it need to be brought to their 14
attention, since part of what we're doing is bringing 15
to their attention things they're not aware of.16
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, would you like to 17
suggest that we do a working group on this access and 18
the consumer participation?19
MS. MAZRUI:  Yes.  I would say consumer 20
outreach and participation would be another 21
subcommittee.22
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Consumer --23
MS. MAZRUI:  And I think there are some 24
rural issues that I can't speak to.25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Consumer knowledge 1
and participation.  Okay.  So -- knowledge and 2
participation?  Consumer outreach.  Okay.  Yes, and 3
you all brought up some excellent things today I 4
thought during the website presentation.  Okay.  5
Susan, we're going to sign you up for that.  Who else? 6
Okay.  Hang on a minute.  Who else wants to be --7
Linda, David P.  Cheryl, are you signing up for that 8
one, or you want a question? Okay.  Cheryl.  Okay.  9
Consumer Outreach and Participation, we're looking at 10
right now.  Who else wants to be on that working 11
group?  Okay.  Mike and Jim, and who else?  Claude.  12
Annette.  Okay.  All right.  Debra.  My God, Debra and 13
Joe.  Okay.  Okay.  Let me see if I've got this.14
MR. GOLDBERG:  Can I ask a question?15
CHAIR ROOKER:  Sure.16
MR. GOLDBERG:  Are those who are signing 17
up interested in including the complaint process as 18
part of this topic?19
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, you know, we did -- I 20
need to send you back to review, because Claude 21
chaired a complaint process working group that came 22
out with some recommendations which were great.  And 23
you may want to go back and review those.  They are in 24
the archived website at the FCC and see what they have 25
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done.  But yes, then I'd like to make changes in their 1
terminology.  That's the only part that I'm really 2
concerned about.  So at any rate, that could be 3
something that you would go back and look at, if you 4
want to set up a complaint form.  Should that be part 5
of the outreach?  Okay.  Okay.  So now let me --6
consumer outreach, complaints and participation.  7
Okay.8
Now let me just go through and see if I've 9
got -- is anyone else joining that subcommittee?  10
Okay.  Ron and Debra.  Is that what you --11
MS. BERLYN:  At some point I want to ask a 12
question about what this group is going to do, because 13
I'm not sure if it covers one of the topics 14
adequately.15
CHAIR ROOKER:  well, go ahead and ask.  16
You've got the microphone.17
MS. BERLYN:  Well --18
CHAIR ROOKER:  No better time.19
MS. BERLYN:  Commissioner Abernathy this 20
morning talked about consumer education.  She 21
mentioned a specific community of senior citizens, but 22
I think consumer education generally is critically 23
important for beyond senior citizens, all consumers.  24
And I'm not sure whether or not this working group 25
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encompasses that element of outreach, education, 1
ensuring that consumers have the information they need 2
to make the right choices, that type of information.3
CHAIR ROOKER:  I think this is what we're 4
discussing, yes.5
MS. BERLYN:  Okay.6
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yes.  Okay.  Now let me go 7
back and recap to make sure that I've got -- Andrea, 8
you want to be on that, or you want to ask -- you want 9
to be on it?  Okay.  Andrea, Joy, okay.  Tom.  My God, 10
I love you.  You're wonderful.  You had dreams about 11
this?  You dreamed that nobody was going to volunteer. 12
Well, this is great.  I mean, look, we'll get this 13
process down right yet.  Okay.  Let's recap on this.  14
We have the complaints, the consumer complaints, 15
outreach and participation working group which 16
consists of Andrea, Joy, Tom, Susan, Linda, David P., 17
Cheryl, Mike, Jim, Claude, Annette, Debra, Joe and 18
Ron.  Did I get it right?  Did I miss you, Rich?  Oh. 19
Did I miss anyone?  Oh, let's see.  Wait a minute.  20
Mike D.  Okay.  They're both Mike D.  Mike DelCasino. 21
Mike Del.  We've got two Mikes.22
Now let's go back.  Do we have it?  Okay. 23
Rich has a question.  Stick your hand up, Rich.  24
There you go.  We're training everybody.25
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MR. ELLIS:  Just a comment.  It sounds 1
like we're sort of starting at one spectrum and then 2
going back to the old way.3
CHAIR ROOKER:  I know.  I'm worried about 4
that, but --5
MR. ELLIS:  I think we might be closer to 6
what Claude is thinking about.  And maybe what we 7
ought to do is get the broader topics today, and then 8
appoint somebody to kind of oversee those broad 9
topics, and be in charge of coming --10
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, that's kind of what 11
we're doing.12
MR. ELLIS:  -- who's in charge of coming 13
back next time and saying the broadband group is going 14
to work on these topics, and the work groups are 15
these, these, and these.16
CHAIR ROOKER:  That's exactly -- that is 17
really I think what is going to have to happen, 18
because you can't have all of these people working on 19
the same issues.  And you're going to have more than 20
one topic.21
MR. ELLIS:  Right.22
CHAIR ROOKER:  That's why we're going to 23
provide you, for example, with the information, the 24
docket numbers that was asked for, I think, that 25
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Eugene asked for.1
MR. ELLIS:  But I think it would be good  2
also as we go through that process of whittling things 3
down, to keep going back to the strategic goals of the 4
FCC and say this refers to --5
CHAIR ROOKER:  Exactly.  Now I need to ask 6
if someone will be the point person on this committee 7
that would be willing to -- Joy.  Okay.  Joy is going 8
to be our point person.  Okay.  Yeah.9
MS. RAGSDALE:  My concern about waiting 10
until the next meeting, July --11
CHAIR ROOKER:  We're not going to wait.  12
I'm going to talk about that.13
MS. RAGSDALE:  In a number of the 14
proceedings, the closing of comment periods are really 15
now.16
CHAIR ROOKER:  Exactly.  And Joy's point 17
is so well taken.  We really need to get moving on 18
this.  That's why those of you, Joy and Larry who have 19
agreed to be the point persons for these two working 20
groups, we will get the docket information to you all. 21
Anything else that you need.  The members -- okay, 22
yes.  Yes, we will get that.  Can we get that off to 23
them via e-mail within the next day or so?  Yeah, next 24
week early in the week.  And your charge is to come up 25
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with a list of the issues, and then not come back to 1
us, but let us put them out over the Internet to the 2
rest of the group to see who else wants to work on the 3
subgroups.  Does that make sense?  You can get some 4
input before the July meeting.  That was our goal, and 5
we'd really like to have something before the July 6
meeting.7
Now, Andrea, you had a question.  She's 8
over here.9
MS. WILLIAMS:  Andrea Williams.  I guess 10
I'm a little confused in terms of what our goal is 11
--**CHAIR ROOKER:  Oh, good.12
MS. WILLIAMS:  -- for the next meeting and 13
all these working group, subcommittee.  What is the 14
action item?  What do you want us to deliver at the 15
next meeting?16
CHAIR ROOKER:  I think that's a very good 17
point.   What I would hope that you would do is over 18
the next two weeks, is to set up the items that you 19
think should be action items, since we -- I think the 20
education one is going to be easier than the 21
broadband.  I think the broadband is going to be a 22
real challenge to come up with the action items.  23
Maybe not, I'm not -- I don't know, but I would like 24
to see within a two week period that you all have 25
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maybe three of those things that you want to break 1
into sub-working groups to address.  Let us know what 2
they are, so that other people on the Committee, if 3
they want to participate, can participate.  Is that 4
possible?  Okay.  All we need is agreement from Joy 5
and Larry that that will happen, and that will happen. 6
Okay.7
Then within that group, we would like for 8
you to start addressing the issues that you feel, 9
especially if they are issues that are now before the 10
FCC, how you feel the comments should come in, what we 11
should be looking at, what the issues are.  If you can 12
get organized enough and do anything, even to come 13
into recommendations for discussion at our next 14
Committee meeting.  Does that help clarify it?15
I don't know what the action items are 16
because they're going to have to determine that within 17
the subcommittees, within their working groups.18
MS. WILLIAMS:  Right.  If the Commission 19
-- I know the issue was brought up in terms of some of 20
these issues are being before the Commission right 21
now, I just want to make sure everyone on the working 22
group understands that the working group cannot make 23
recommendations.24
CHAIR ROOKER:  That's right.  They know 25
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that.1
MS. WILLIAMS:  That this will --2
everything will still have to come back --3
CHAIR ROOKER:  To July.4
MS. WILLIAMS:  -- to July.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  If there is an issue that 6
is -- that the comments period is closing before our 7
July meeting, is it possible, Scott, for us to --8
MS. WILLIAMS:  File ex parte.9
CHAIR ROOKER:  File, yeah.  We could.  10
Right?11
MR. MARSHALL:  Well, we have to have a 12
meeting.13
MS. WILLIAMS:  We have to have a meeting 14
first.15
CHAIR ROOKER:  We have a meeting via the 16
Internet.  That wouldn't qualify.  It would have to be 17
an open meeting, so maybe not.18
MR. MARSHALL:  Well, theoretically we 19
could have a meeting via Internet.  I -- it is much 20
more complicated.  We'd have to worry about how to get 21
the public participation there.  Paula indicated that 22
was possible, but I'm not sure at this point all of 23
the logistical problems of doing that.24
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yeah.  So we may not --25
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MR. MARSHALL:  Even if a comment period 1
closes though between now and July, if the working 2
groups are able to define the issues they want to 3
address and start working on recommendations, we can 4
file an ex parte in July based on what this Full 5
Committee decides that it wants to do, based on the 6
working group recommendations.7
CHAIR ROOKER:  See, you all understand the 8
process better than I do.9
MR. MARSHALL:  I think that would work.10
CHAIR ROOKER:  Does that answer your 11
question?12
MR. MARSHALL:  Andrea, is that doable?13
CHAIR ROOKER:  Who are we asking?14
MR. MARSHALL:  I was asking Andrea.15
CHAIR ROOKER:  Andrea.16
MS. WILLIAMS:  Yeah, that's doable.17
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  So our goal would be 18
to come up with the recommendations that we could 19
discuss in July, and then file, if necessary, ex 20
parte.  Okay.  All right.  Okay, Larry and then --21
MR. GOLDBERG:  Clearly, that would mean 22
that the agenda for July has to have significant time 23
available to debate draft recommendations.24
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yes.25
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MR. MARSHALL:  Absolutely.1
CHAIR ROOKER:  Absolutely.2
MR. GOLDBERG:  We're going to need to 3
spend lots of time doing that.4
CHAIR ROOKER:  That's right.5
MR. GOLDBERG:  So that at the end of that 6
meeting, we can all, in essence, vote.7
CHAIR ROOKER:  You all need to give us 8
adequate notice because we have to establish the 9
agenda, how far out, Scott?10
MR. MARSHALL:  About six weeks out.11
CHAIR ROOKER:  About six weeks out, so 12
you're going to have to get cracking, because time is 13
slipping away here.  So you need to come up with 14
suggestions to the Committee for discussion.  You need 15
to let us know, Scott and me, as soon as you've 16
identified the items.  If there's any kind of 17
information or people that you need to come and speak 18
to the issue before the Committee in July, because 19
there may be something that you need clarification on 20
from the FCC, for example, or even an outside expert. 21
So that -- now, Byron, you had your hand up.  Yes, 22
thank you.23
MR. ST. CLAIR:  Byron St. Clair, National 24
Translator Association.  As I explained earlier, my 25
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focus is free over-the- air radio and television 1
service in rural areas, and I haven't heard anything 2
yet where I can focus in on with the other people.  3
Broadband seems to be - excuse the pun - too broad.  4
But I wonder if anybody wants to join me in improved 5
communications in rural areas other than broadband.6
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, actually the next 7
thing I was going to ask about was to follow-up on 8
Vernon's comment, and your comment comes right in 9
target with what I was going to ask, where Vernon was 10
talking about issues in rural areas.  I think it might 11
be useful, would you be interested in setting up a 12
working group on issues pertinent to rural areas, 13
which there may be some crossover to the other working 14
groups, but that doesn't -- I don't think that's 15
particularly bad.  Vernon.16
MR. JAMES:  I don't see the issue of 17
ruralness as a singular topic, but a component of each 18
working group.19
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  All right.  Now what 20
about Byron's comments about the radio service?  That 21
would not really fall under broadband.22
MR. JAMES:  I would include it in 23
broadband because --24
CHAIR ROOKER:  Would you?25
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MR. JAMES:  -- I think that there are 1
issues that need to be addressed in how broadband is 2
delivered, and how broadcast, free broadcast is also 3
delivered.  It also ties into spectrum, because we're 4
talking wireless.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  Oh, I see.  Okay.6
MR. JAMES:  As well as wire line.7
CHAIR ROOKER:  Byron, are you interested 8
in joining the broadband with perhaps some -- do you 9
want to do that?  So we'll put Byron under the 10
broadband.11
MR. ST. CLAIR:  If that's the way it works 12
the best then, you know, I'm new to the group so I 13
follow your guidance as to where to fit me in best.14
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yeah.  Let's see.  David, I 15
think you had your hand up.16
MR. POEHLMAN:  This is David Poehlman with 17
the American Council of the Blind.  My arm must be too 18
short.  I'm trying to see if DVS and audio description 19
issues, descriptive video issues surrounding digital 20
TV fall into broadband, because I don't think we 21
mentioned that as part of our agenda for that working 22
group.  If not then, you know, we need to find, I 23
guess, some way to plug that hole.24
CHAIR ROOKER:  Somebody else comment on 25
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that?  Don.  Larry.1
MR. SNOOP:  Yeah, Don Snoop.  What I think 2
you're saying is that you realize that that's all part 3
of the broadcast spectrum, the fact that SAP and all 4
those various other things are part of the broadcast 5
spectrum, so they're already in there under existing 6
FCC rules.  How it's going to be dealt with during the 7
HDTV expansion and various other things, and the 8
transition from the analog to digital on the broadcast 9
is a very, very crucial part of that.  And that --10
what you're looking for will probably be encapsulated 11
into that.  But I think the main focus should be how 12
we're going to deal with the actual use of the 13
spectrum, and how we're going to get cable TV 14
companies, and phone companies, and various other 15
companies to be able to do this in an efficient 16
manner.17
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  I think, Rich, you 18
had your hand up.19
MR. ELLIS:  I may be saying what Larry is 20
about to say, which is we're kind of dumping all kinds 21
of things into the broadband bucket that may not 22
really belong in the broadband bucket.23
CHAIR ROOKER:  I know.24
MR. GOLDBERG:  Description issues for both 25
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analog and digital TV.  I don't really see that as 1
part of the broadband issue.  I'd like there to be 2
video description in broadband, absolutely.  But I 3
think we need to talk about that also, as a separate  4
working --5
CHAIR ROOKER:  What about we set up a 6
working group on video description.  I think that's an 7
important issue.  What do you think about that?8
MR. GOLDBERG:  Let Mike --9
CHAIR ROOKER:  Mike, do you want to do 10
that?11
MR. DUKE:  I would like to -- okay.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.13
MR. DUKE:  I would like to see the -- at 14
the risk of hearing cries of oh-no, the audio 15
information service and video description have a lot 16
of the same issues.  Yes, I would like very much to 17
work with that group, like for it to include not just 18
DVS-type issues, but the audio information services 19
which when the digital radio really gets going, are 20
going to be looking for a home.21
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  I mean, does that --22
is that some -- do we have some people who are 23
interested in doing this?  And is that -- I don't know 24
the technology, so I don't know.  But we've got Mike 25
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Duke, who's interested in this.  David P.  David, 1
we're going to work you to death.  I hope you don't 2
have a real job.  Larry, are you interested or 3
commenting?4
MR. GOLDBERG:  Yes.  Well, both.  I think 5
that we do need to be a little bit broader if we're 6
going to talk about video description, so it's almost 7
like all ancillary audio services need to be taken on. 8
And that's a good broader topic than perhaps others 9
who would like to join in too.  I don't say that we 10
can't have a three or more person group, but if we 11
talk about a larger focus, it might be more --12
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  So does anyone else 13
want to join that particular group?  Okay.  First let 14
me find out, who else wants to be on this -- and I 15
don't know the technology so you'll have to define it 16
for me.  I'm talking about video description and audio 17
information.18
MR. DUKE:  What was it Larry called it?19
MR. GOLDBERG:  Ancillary audio.20
MR. DUKE:  Yeah.21
CHAIR ROOKER:  What does that mean?22
MR. GOLDBERG:  It means all other forms of 23
audio that's not part of the --24
CHAIR ROOKER:  It's Friday afternoon.  Can 25
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you spell it?1
MR. GOLDBERG:  A-N-C-I --2
CHAIR ROOKER:  I know how to spell it.3
(Laughter.)4
CHAIR ROOKER:  I don't know what it is, 5
but I can spell it.  All right.  We're going to have a 6
working group on ancillary audio.  I love that.  All 7
right.  Now do I see hands of people who want to join 8
that working group?  Mike, I've got you down, Mike 9
Duke, David P., Larry.  All right.10
MR. SEAGRIFF:  I'd like to suggest a 11
clarification, if I may.12
CHAIR ROOKER:  All right.13
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Larry, should captioning be 14
in that basket?15
MR. GOLDBERG:  Not necessarily.16
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Because these are the 17
things that have pass-through problems, the way I'm 18
looking at it.19
MR. GOLDBERG:  So you really want to talk 20
about ancillary services.21
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Right.  Which has --22
MR. GOLDBERG:  Not it's not just broadband 23
only.24
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Which historically have had 25
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pass-through problems, and are not being thought about 1
in a lot of new media.2
MR. GOLDBERG:  Ancillary data service.  3
Well, anyone who's interested in V-chip should join 4
into that, because that's absolutely a concern.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  All right.  And who else6
does that bring in?  Byron, are you interested in 7
that?8
MR. ST. CLAIR:  First off, I think we need 9
to broaden it because there's not just ancillary audio 10
services.  With the coming of digital television, a 11
lot of extra services can be slid in and delivered, 12
and it seems to me there's a much broader picture here 13
that needs to be addressed.14
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, let's try to keep 15
ourselves --16
MR. ST. CLAIR:  Yeah, ancillary services 17
in general.18
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  All right.  Are you 19
interested in joining that?20
MR. ST. CLAIR:  Yes.21
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  So Byron.  Right now 22
on that we have Mike Duke, David P., Larry and Byron.23
MS. KIRSCH:  Shirley, since I am a 24
representative from the National Association of 25
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Broadcasters, I think my expertise would be better 1
spent on that.2
CHAIR ROOKER:  You could do both.3
MS. KIRSCH:  I will just take one.  I'd 4
like to be off of the broadband.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  All right.  We'll take 6
Karen off of broadband and put her on the ancillary 7
services.  Okay.  All right.  Who else?  Anyone else? 8
Are you all volunteering?  Okay.  We've got Eugene 9
and Vernon.  Okay.  Anyone else?  All right.  I like 10
you folks.  Vernon.  I'm doing video description for 11
Scott.  That's okay.  So we've got on that Mike Duke, 12
Eugene, Vernon, David P., Larry, Byron and Karen.  Who 13
wants to be the point person on that?  I want a hand 14
to go up there. Larry's already doing something.  15
You're not getting out of this room.  I'm going to 16
lock the door.  All right.  Who's on it?  Mike Duke, 17
Eugene, audio, my notes are so bad.  Mike Duke, 18
Eugene, Vernon, David P., Larry, Byron and Karen.  19
Please, we need one person to just say that they will 20
see that things get started and do e-mail.  Eugene, 21
bless you.  Love it.  Love it.22
Okay.  Now as far as the TRS is concerned, 23
we have Dixie, Rebecca and Joe.  Can we get Brenda or 24
Joe to be the point person on that?  One of you going 25
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to volunteer.  Brenda, bless you.  All right.1
Well, I think this is a rather ambitious 2
undertaking.  We've got four different working groups. 3
Claude, yes.  I'm sorry.  Go ahead.4
MR. STOUT:  And I will also join that TRS 5
group, if you don't mind.6
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Super.  Yes.  So we 7
put Claude on there.  Okay.  Super.  Yes, that is a 8
good group.  I'm proud of you all.  Thank you.  Unlock 9
the doors now, please.  Yes, Vernon and Tom, I think 10
you had a comment.  You actually had your hand up 11
first.  Stick your hand over here so they see.  Over 12
here.  Okay.13
MR. ALLIBONE:  I've got a question going 14
back to the original Consumer Complaint Outreach 15
Education Group, just to make sure, a clarification 16
for me on that with respect to the broadness of what 17
we are going to be looking at.18
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yeah.19
MR. ALLIBONE:  We didn't talk about -- I 20
want to know whether we would fit phone bill-type 21
issues into that?22
CHAIR ROOKER:  I would think so, yes.23
MR. ALLIBONE:  And consumer protection, as 24
well?25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  Yes.1
MR. ALLIBONE:  Excellent.2
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Then Vernon had --  3
well, you're going to have to define yourself and get 4
some smaller working groups, and then let us know what 5
they are, because that's too many people for working 6
groups.  You won't get anything done.  But you can 7
divide it up on your subjects.  I mean, we're not 8
dictating to you what you're supposed to come up with. 9
I'm just telling you the process.  So, Vernon, you 10
had a comment.11
MR. JAMES:  Thank you, Shirley.  One of 12
the goals that was identified on the FCC sheet is 13
spectrum, and I think that's an important issue that 14
needs to be talked about.  There are a lot of 15
complications and a lot of concerns as it relates to 16
rural America and Indian reservations.17
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Would you like to 18
make that an agenda item? Is that what you're saying? 19
You think we should be making that a working group, 20
or I'm not quite clear on --21
MR. JAMES:  I'm just saying that it ought 22
to be a working group.23
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Can we -- because 24
we've got so much going on right now, can we put off, 25
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can we do that and form it in July, because we may 1
have -- some of these working groups may be that they 2
are not going to last beyond then.  I mean, we don't 3
know yet.  Would that be acceptable to you?4
MR. JAMES:  I think so.5
CHAIR ROOKER:  I mean, I'm not trying to 6
delay you, but we've got four groups here.  I just 7
don't want to see the Committee divided up so badly, 8
but if there are people who are interested in doing 9
it, we can set it up.  That's not a problem.  So let's 10
take Vernon's suggestion.  Are there those of you who 11
would like to work on this in terms of spectrum?  Is 12
there any reason why we can't do that?  We'll do 13
another one.  Yeah.  Some of it I think is going to be 14
more long range.  What we'll probably have to identify 15
for July are the issues that are critical, 16
particularly in terms of comments before the FCC, so 17
we will have to do some prioritizing in terms of the 18
agenda items, but that doesn't stop us from working on 19
the issues.  So who else would like to be on the 20
spectrum?  We've got Vernon.21
MR. JAMES:  Shirley, maybe you ought to 22
ask if this is an interest area for --23
CHAIR ROOKER:  Well, I think so.  We've 24
got hands going up.25
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MS. WILLIAMS:  I have a question.1
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay, question.2
MS. WILLIAMS:  Andrea Williams.  Well, 3
it's more of a comment to make.  With spectrum 4
management, Vernon, I can assure you it's going to be 5
around for a while.  I've been working in wireless now 6
for 9 years, and when I started in `92, we were 7
talking about spectrum, and we're still talking about 8
spectrum.9
I think where the FCC is at this right now 10
in terms of spectrum management is finding those bands 11
where we can get additional spectrum.  I don't think 12
they're ready yet at the point where I would say in 13
terms of consumers, particularly in terms of 14
auctioning the spectrum.  I think first right now what 15
they're trying to do is identify where that spectrum 16
is, how they're going to move people who are in that 17
part of the band out, or how they're going to relocate 18
them, how they're going to deal with that spectrum 19
that the Department of Defense wants in the 20
commercial, and then the next phase will be once they 21
have identified that spectrum, how should it be used? 22
And I think that is a point where this Committee 23
could really help the Commission in terms of how 24
different interests would like to see that spectrum 25
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used.  I'm sure Karen is going to want the spectrum 1
used for some of her constituency.  I know my 2
constituency is going to want to see the spectrum used 3
in certain ways.  There are certain things I'm sure 4
your constituency is going to want that spectrum used, 5
and what the rules should be in terms of once you get 6
to that.  So I would like to, if you don't mind, 7
Vernon, if we could defer that working group to a 8
point where I think it would be more effective.9
CHAIR ROOKER:  I'm sitting here. Karen, 10
do you have a comment on this?11
MS. KIRSCH:  Yes.  Andrea, you did a very 12
good job trying to explain, or explaining part of what 13
the FCC is doing with this whole issue of spectrum.  14
If I could add another thing. It's very technical in 15
nature.  Another thing that they're looking at is 16
taking a look at the current uses of spectrum, and 17
seeing if maybe they can lessen the interference 18
criteria.  And it's just really involved, and I think 19
Andrea is right, that right now it's so technical in 20
nature, there really isn't a consumer component, but 21
there will be once they get this technical, some of 22
these technical issues ironed out.23
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  Vernon.24
MR. JAMES:  Vernon James.  I understand 25
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what you're saying, but believe me, there is an issue1
here that concerns much of rural America.  Rural 2
America was left out of the spectrum acquisition 3
process, and as a result has a lot of problems as it 4
relates to spectrum.  And there's no doubt that 5
wireless, as far as part of the spectrum, is a hot 6
issue.  And I just would want - - I think I'd be 7
remiss if I didn't bring this issue up on the table, 8
as far as consumers who live in rural America.  That's 9
my purpose.10
CHAIR ROOKER:  Larry.11
MR. GOLDBERG:  I have a suggestion.  One 12
might be that at the next meeting in July we do have 13
an expert in to talk to us about spectrum management, 14
and issues particularly around rural.15
CHAIR ROOKER:  I think that's an excellent 16
suggestions.17
MR. GOLDBERG:  So I don't think I 18
understand much of what you are talking about.19
CHAIR ROOKER:  I don't either.20
MR. GOLDBERG:  And it is a complex issue, 21
but I know that there are consumer issues, because 22
there'll be a gold rush for some of that spectrum once 23
the technical issues are cleared up, and consumers 24
will want some of that.25
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MS. WILLIAMS:  That'S what I was talking 1
-- this is Andrea Williams, in terms of the next 2
phase, in terms of the auctioning part of that 3
spectrum.  That's where I see -- again, I agree.  I 4
think we're agreeing, Vernon, that that's the area 5
where this Committee could really provide some -- give 6
the FCC's perception of okay, we've identified all the 7
technical parameters.  These are the bands that we're 8
going to be able to use.  Now Commissioners, you are 9
-- as you're considering what the rules should be to 10
use that spectrum, you may want to consider if someone 11
is going to purchase X amount of spectrum, how is that 12
going to serve rural America?13
CHAIR ROOKER:  Can we just go back to 14
Larry's suggestion and see how that sits with you, 15
Vernon, that we have someone come in and do this in 16
July, with a pledge that we will take it from there.  17
I'm not trying to forestall you because I really 18
understand your need, and you want to do that.  Does 19
that work?  Okay.  If you -- now I'll press ahead with 20
a working group if you want me to.21
MR. JAMES:  No.22
CHAIR ROOKER:  Okay.  All right.  So we 23
will make that an agenda item for our July meeting.  24
We will get someone in to come in and talk about it so 25
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that even I can understand it.  And that's a challenge 1
to you, Scott, there.  All right.  Eugene, and then 2
we've got to wind up here.3
MR. SEAGRIFF:  Yes.  Similar to spectrum, 4
another issue that was on Margaret's list that maybe 5
we can't fit into anything that currently exists is 6
E-911 issues.7
CHAIR ROOKER:  Yeah.8
MR. SEAGRIFF:  I don't know if we want to 9
establish a group, or we want to hold off on that 10
until after July.  I just wanted --11
CHAIR ROOKER:  I know that's a very 12
important issue.  I -- do you think that we can do 13
this in July?  This is going to be with us for a 14
while.  Yeah.  I think we need to -- I mean, we can 15
set up something in July if we want to look at that.16
MR. MARSHALL:  July is only two months 17
away.18
CHAIR ROOKER:  That's right, it's two 19
months away.  Got your work cut out for you.  Okay. 20
Folks, Brenda, this is going to be the last one.21
MS. KELLY-FREY:  Hello, this is Brenda.  22
I'm curious to find out whether outsiders can 23
participate in these working groups, or is it just 24
limited to the committee members?25
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CHAIR ROOKER:  No, outsiders can 1
participate.  Just let us know who's participating.  I 2
mean, these are really open public discussions open to 3
anyone.4
All right.  I want to thank you.  You've 5
done a yeoman's job today.  I'm very excited about it. 6
I like the energy. I like the ideas that I hear 7
coming from you, so thank you all very, very much.  8
It's now the time where we accept comments from the 9
public, so I'd like to open the microphones to anyone 10
who might be with us, who has patiently waited, that 11
would like to say something to the Committee.  We do 12
not have anyone who wants to make comments.13
Well, thank all of you very much.  We've 14
got a lot of work.  I think it's going to be fun.  I 15
hope you enjoy it, and I hope you have a wonderful 16
week.  Yes, Joy.  Those will be coming out to you next 17
week.  Yes, early hopefully.  As early as possible 18
next week.  Okay.  Thank you all very, very much.19
(Whereupon, the proceeding in the 20
above-entitled matter went off the record at 4:29:37 21
p.m.)22
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