Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 23:08:10 EST
Subject: Fwd: [FRCtech2002] Digest Number 31


------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: air storage tanks
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      2. Re: Pneumatics
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      3. Re: wiring the compressor to the controller
           From: Doug Hogg <pinewood@pacbell.net>
      4. Drill motor coupler from smallparts
           From: "north66203" <north66203@yahoo.com>
      5. Re: wiring the compressor to the controller (with link this time)
           From: Doug Hogg <pinewood@pacbell.net>
      6. Re: Inspection Checklist
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      7. Globe Motor
           From: "mrg_team433" <bgerngross@home.com>
      8. Re: Globe Motor
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      9. Polyethylene/Aluminum Laminate
           From: "wrtice" <william.tice@emhartglass.com>
     10. Re: Polyethylene/Aluminum Laminate
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     11. Fed Ex
           From: "mastermike1227" <canudipmeinhoney@aol.com>
     12. Re: Fed Ex
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     13. Question on Spring energy
           From: "akajadawson" <akajadawson@netscape.net>
     14. Re: Question on Spring energy
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     15. Using the ciruit board to monitor robot motion
           From: "ericstokely" <estokely@earthlink.net>
     16. Re: Using the ciruit board to monitor robot motion
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     17. shipping of the revolving light and other parts that we didnt get jan 5th.
           From: "mike8462000" <mike8462000@yahoo.com>
     18. Re: Time Between Rounds
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     19. Re: Fed Ex
           From: "team_190" <stafford@wpi.edu>
     20. Re: Drill motor coupler from smallparts
           From: Robbie Stone <robbie@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us>
     21. Casters
           From: "Murray, Chris" <cmurray@cguhs.org>
     22. Re: Drive Motors
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     23. Re: Casters
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     24. transport
           From: "robotics274" <lonewolf32584@aol.com>
     25. Re: Reflector and Batteries??
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:47:15 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: air storage tanks

> > Can we start a match with the air storage tank already filled with 
> the compresed air or do we have to pressurize the tanks at the start 
> of the match??

A) You can start a match with filled air tanks, please refer to rule 
M1.

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:49:25 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pneumatics

> we never recieved a pneumatics manual with our kit. were they 
shipped 
> late or do we need to fill out a special form for it, because we 
have 
> no idea of the pneumatic rules and limitations.

A) The Pneumatics Manual was shipped with the kit in the Red 
container.  The Pneumatics manual can be downloaded from the FIRST 
website http://www.usfirst.org.

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 3
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:43:29 -0800
   From: Doug Hogg <pinewood@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: wiring the compressor to the controller

Hi,

Check out this thread on chiefdelphi.com. It tells how to wire the 
inputs and how to program the board to automatically respond to 
sensor input. We used the second of the 2 code example (simpler) and 
it works perfectly. However I am not the programmer. If you get 
stuck, let me know what the problem is and I will try to get you some 
help from our programmer.

Doug Hogg
Team 980


>Ok,  Here is one.
>
>I am helping to mentor a team at a small schoo in ND.  There are no
>Engineers on the team.  There are none available.  There are two
>electronic technicians.  I am one. 
>
>I have been over the books and I cannot figure out how to hook the
>compressor up to the robot controller. 
>
>It appears to me that we are supposed to wire the pressure switch so
>it puts ground to one of the digital inputs and this in turn will put
>5v out at one of the relay outputs.
>
>It looks like relays 5-8 are not used.  I would like to use one of
>these for this puropsse and also another one to turn on the rotating
>light.
>
>Would you tell me where I can find a table or schematic that says,
>for example, "digital input pin 18 is relay 6 red,  digital input pin
>19 is relay 6 yellow,  digital input pin 20 is relay 7 red, digital
>input 21 is relay 7 yellow, and so forth."
>
>Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
>
>--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "Dillard, Gary J" <gary.j.dillard@l...>
>wrote:
>>  At the risk of getting flooded with questions from
>>  rookies.....................
>> 
>>  Team 180 SPAM (and I'm sure almost all of the other veteran teams)
>would
>>  love to help out with mentoring rookie teams, maybe helping to
>filter out
>>  some of the questions about general rules and materials before they
>get
>>  posted and save you some time.  Problem is, I suspect many of the
>rookie
>>  teams either don't feel right "bothering" other teams or don't know
>the
>>  avenues to ask questions other than this forum.  We posted our team
>as
>>  willing to mentor and haven't received any requests (that I'm aware
>of -
>>  hopefully our website links are working), and I have no success
>contacting
>>  the rookie teams in our state - either they don't have a website up
>or the
>>  website listed with FIRST is a generic school site.
>> 
>>  Rookie teams - You aren't bothering us!  We'd all love to help,
>just ask -
>>  there are no dumb questions, and if your robot is better it makes
>us compete
>>  better.  Use the mentoring maps, check out the forums at Delphi. 
>If you
>>  come across a team website with a message board or guest book, sign
>in and
>>  let them know you need help.
>> 
>>
>>  Gary J. Dillard
>>  Lockheed Martin - Perry Technologies
>  > 561-494-2437
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>FRCtech2002-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:46:41 -0000
   From: "north66203" <north66203@yahoo.com>
Subject: Drill motor coupler from smallparts

What is the best way to attach a metal rod to the coupler, Pin or 
key??




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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:00:30 -0800
   From: Doug Hogg <pinewood@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: wiring the compressor to the controller (with link this time)

Hi,

Check out this thread on chiefdelphi.com.  (I forgot to paste the 
link in my previous message.)

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1658&highlight=pump

It tells how to wire the
inputs and how to program the board to automatically respond to
sensor input. We used the second of the 2 code example (simpler) and
it works perfectly. However I am not the programmer. If you get
stuck, let me know what the problem is and I will try to get you some
help from our programmer.

Doug Hogg
Team 980


>Ok,  Here is one.
>
>I am helping to mentor a team at a small schoo in ND.  There are no
>Engineers on the team.  There are none available.  There are two
>electronic technicians.  I am one. 
>
>I have been over the books and I cannot figure out how to hook the
>compressor up to the robot controller. 
>
>It appears to me that we are supposed to wire the pressure switch so
>it puts ground to one of the digital inputs and this in turn will put
>5v out at one of the relay outputs.
>
>It looks like relays 5-8 are not used.  I would like to use one of
>these for this puropsse and also another one to turn on the rotating
>light.
>
>Would you tell me where I can find a table or schematic that says,
>for example, "digital input pin 18 is relay 6 red,  digital input pin
>19 is relay 6 yellow,  digital input pin 20 is relay 7 red, digital
>input 21 is relay 7 yellow, and so forth."
>
>Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
>
>--- In FRCtech2002@y..., "Dillard, Gary J" <gary.j.dillard@l...>
>wrote:
>>  At the risk of getting flooded with questions from
>>  rookies.....................
>> 
>>  Team 180 SPAM (and I'm sure almost all of the other veteran teams)
>would
>>  love to help out with mentoring rookie teams, maybe helping to
>filter out
>>  some of the questions about general rules and materials before they
>get
>>  posted and save you some time.  Problem is, I suspect many of the
>rookie
>>  teams either don't feel right "bothering" other teams or don't know
>the
>>  avenues to ask questions other than this forum.  We posted our team
>as
>>  willing to mentor and haven't received any requests (that I'm aware
>of -
>>  hopefully our website links are working), and I have no success
>contacting
>>  the rookie teams in our state - either they don't have a website up
>or the
>>  website listed with FIRST is a generic school site.
>> 
>>  Rookie teams - You aren't bothering us!  We'd all love to help,
>just ask -
>>  there are no dumb questions, and if your robot is better it makes
>us compete
>>  better.  Use the mentoring maps, check out the forums at Delphi. 
>If you
>>  come across a team website with a message board or guest book, sign
>in and
>>  let them know you need help.
>> 
>>
>>  Gary J. Dillard
>>  Lockheed Martin - Perry Technologies
>  > 561-494-2437
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>FRCtech2002-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 02:45:58 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Inspection Checklist

Q: Can we get a copy of the inspection checklist prior to the 
                competition?  Knowing what the inspectors will be 
looking for will 
                help speed the inspection process, and reduce the 
potential for rework 
                at the competition.

                Mike Gray

A: Ask and ye shall receive. In team update #4.




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Message: 7
   Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:05:14 -0000
   From: "mrg_team433" <bgerngross@home.com>
Subject: Globe Motor

It's Wiring time and it appears that the manual has conflicting info:
The globe motor shows it using #10(via a semi-bold line) wire on the 
single line diagram while the Table of Wiring usage on the opposite 
page tells you to use #16 wire.

Please advise.
Thanks.
GO FIREBIRDS!




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Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:32:24 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Globe Motor

A.  16AWG is the correct wire size for the Globe Motor.  Please refer 
to Team Update#4 posted on the FIRST web site.
FIRST-t

> It's Wiring time and it appears that the manual has conflicting 
info:
> The globe motor shows it using #10(via a semi-bold line) wire on the 
> single line diagram while the Table of Wiring usage on the opposite 
> page tells you to use #16 wire.
> 





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Message: 9
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:34:36 -0000
   From: "wrtice" <william.tice@emhartglass.com>
Subject: Polyethylene/Aluminum Laminate

The rules state that we may use aluminum plate and polycarbonate 
sheets. Can we use a sheet of polyethylene aluminum laminate 1/4" 
thick? Our team does not have the expertise to know if polyethylene 
is a polycarbonate or not.
Team 809




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Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:47:29 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Polyethylene/Aluminum Laminate

A.  if you can purchase polyethylene aluminum laminate 1/4" from Small 
Parts then it can be used.  Other wise No.

exact definitions from Webster's dictionary:

polyethylene (pl-th-ln) n. 
A polymerized ethylene resin, used especially for containers, 
kitchenware, and tubing, or in the form of films and sheets for 
packaging.
polycarbonate (pl-krb-nt) n. 
Any of a family of thermoplastics characterized by high-impact 
strength, light weight, and flexibility, and used as a 
shatter-resistant substitute for glass.
FIRST-t

> The rules state that we may use aluminum plate and polycarbonate 
> sheets. Can we use a sheet of polyethylene aluminum laminate 1/4" 
> thick? Our team does not have the expertise to know if polyethylene 
> is a polycarbonate or not.
> Team 809




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Message: 11
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:39:32 -0000
   From: "mastermike1227" <canudipmeinhoney@aol.com>
Subject: Fed Ex

team 354: ok i have been reading the papers for the free shipping 
that Fed Ex has given the teams; and it says that it ships packages 
everday except saturday. But the New York Regional falls on a 
Saturday. will i still get my free shipping?
                                              -Mike




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Message: 12
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 04:12:25 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fed Ex

A.answered.  Please refer to #595.
first-t

ok i have been reading the papers for the free shipping 
> that Fed Ex has given the teams; and it says that it ships packages 
> everday except saturday. But the New York Regional falls on a 
> Saturday. will i still get my free shipping?
>                                               




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Message: 13
   Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:17:03 -0000
   From: "akajadawson" <akajadawson@netscape.net>
Subject: Question on Spring energy

Can there be stored spring energy prior to having the robot turned on 
for competition?

Team 910




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Message: 14
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:43:50 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Spring energy

> Can there be stored spring energy prior to having the robot turned 
on for competition?

A) Yes, please refer to rule M1.

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 15
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:18:06 -0000
   From: "ericstokely" <estokely@earthlink.net>
Subject: Using the ciruit board to monitor robot motion

Sorry if this is a duplicate question from me.

Can we have shafts or other mechanical items enter the circuit board
enclosure so that the circuit board can monitor them?
For example using  a rotating shaft from a motor and 100$ worth of
electronics to determine RPM or a small lever from a big lever
allowing accurate measurment of an arm.

Thanks. You have a thankless job but so far I think its been going ok




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Message: 16
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:10:31 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Using the ciruit board to monitor robot motion

> Can we have shafts or other mechanical items enter the circuit board
> enclosure so that the circuit board can monitor them?  For example, 
using  a rotating shaft from a motor and $ 100 worth of
> electronics to determine RPM or a small lever from a big lever
> allowing accurate measurment of an arm.

A) Yes, this is allowable.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 17
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:31:16 -0000
   From: "mike8462000" <mike8462000@yahoo.com>
Subject: shipping of the revolving light and other parts that we didnt get jan 5th.



    when will be recieving the parts that we didnt get on January 
5th? 




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Message: 18
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:27:13 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Time Between Rounds

Q: I understand that there is a limited amount of time between rounds. 
                At the end of each match, the power will be turned off 
and point 
                totals are calculated. 

                Question: After the match when power is cut, are the 
crew members 
                allowed to step onto the field to manually remove our 
robots from 
                whatever they are attached to (goals, other robots, 
etc)? Or do we 
                have to have everything "dis-attached" at the end of 
the 2 minutes?

                Similarly, between rounds is the power turned on again 
so that we 
                drive the robot back to the starting block?

                Many apologies if this seems like an irrelevant 
question, but we are 
                a rookie team! An answer is greatly appreciated. 
Thanks in advance.

A: Check out rule GM6 in the Game section for the details. You are 
expected to get on the field to get your robot and detach it manually 
from whatever it's stuck to, but new this year you can use a tether. 
You want to have a sturdy cart near the stage to cart your bot away 
on, because the power is not turned on for the purpose of having you 
drive it back to the starting block.

M4



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Message: 19
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:48:30 -0000
   From: "team_190" <stafford@wpi.edu>
Subject: Re: Fed Ex

Ok, we're also confused.  #595 says FedEx will ship from Regional to
National, but in the Admin section of the book, page 9, you say
"...crate must leave event site on Saturday," while on page 12, you
say "FedEx does not pickup on Saturday."  Does this mean we will have
to find an interim local holding location (drayage$$$) on Saturday,
waiting for Sunday/Monday FedEx pickup?

 --- In FRCtech2002@y..., "frcengineers" <frcengineers@y...> wrote:
> A.answered.  Please refer to #595.
> first-t
> 
> ok i have been reading the papers for the free shipping 
> > that Fed Ex has given the teams; and it says that it ships
packages 
> > everday except saturday. But the New York Regional falls on a 
> > Saturday. will i still get my free shipping?
> >



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Message: 20
   Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:02:23 -0800
   From: Robbie Stone <robbie@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Drill motor coupler from smallparts

Keyed shaft.

Take a look for 3/8 shaft with a 1/8 key at your local steel depot. You
may need to find an end mill and increase the size slightly, as the
coupler uses a 1/8 key, but the standard for that size shaft is 3/32. A
little slip here and there may occur with a 3/32 key in the 1/8 keyway,
or resolve the issue for $10, your choice. 

Robbie Stone
Team 8
Palo Alto High School
Palo Alto, CA

north66203 wrote:
> 
> What is the best way to attach a metal rod to the coupler, Pin or
> key??
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FRCtech2002-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:49:12 -0700
   From: "Murray, Chris" <cmurray@cguhs.org>
Subject: Casters

Small Parts' catalog doesn't show the caster we received in our boxes.
Fastenal is a supplier of casters, but I haven't found that specific model.
a.) What is the specific part number for the caster?  b.) Is it in
Fastenal's or Small Parts' catalog? c.) Is that specific caster handled by
any chains like Loew's or Home Depot?

 



[This message contained attachments]



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Message: 22
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:30:50 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Drive Motors

> May we use the Fisher-Price gear box motors or Chiaphua Motors 
> for drive train?

A) Yes, see Rule K1.

> If the fisher price motors may be used, does the hub assembly
> connect to this motor assembly?

A) The Fisher-Price 10 Web Jeep Drivers provided in the kit mate with
the output shafts on the Fisher-Price Motor/Gearboxes.

-----
ER





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Message: 23
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:43:18 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Casters


> Small Parts' catalog doesn't show the caster we received in our 
boxes.
> Fastenal is a supplier of casters, but I haven't found that specific 
model.
> a.) What is the specific part number for the caster? 

A) The specific part number for the caster is 10247-00715

 b.) Is it in Fastenal's or Small Parts' catalog? 

A) Fastenal is the supplier of the caster, I am not sure if it is 
their catalog.

c.) Is that specific caster 
handled by any chains like Loew's or Home Depot?

A)Not sure, you will have to hunt around for it.

---
FIRST MRT




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Message: 24
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:18:50 -0000
   From: "robotics274" <lonewolf32584@aol.com>
Subject: transport

If there is a regionl event in your city, can we tranport the robot 
to the storing area ourselves? If so, where is the storing area for 
the Cleveland regional and contact person? 




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Message: 25
   Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:02:10 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Reflector and Batteries??

> 1. I know you said that the reflective tape can not be used on the 
> Robot, and I assume that this is to prevent interference to other 
> sensor systems, however could we use a small piece of the tape within 
> the Robot such that it is not exposed to the outside, for the purpose 
> of an optic sensor reflector.

A) No.  Reflective tape may not be used on the robot.  See Message 65, 504, 505, and Team Update #1.

> If not, may we use a small reflector similiar to those provided by
> BannerEnginnering? 

No.  See Rule K1.

> 2. Will batteries from previous years be allowed during the 
> competitions? (assuming only one battery in system)

We have decided to allow Yuasa/Exide batteries from the 2001 competition to be used, but not the green CSB or other batteries from prior years.

-----
ER





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