RESEARCH ACTIVITY PANEL
A WORKING GROUP OF THE 
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY ADVISORY COUNCIL
299 Foam St
Monterey, California  93940 
					Phone          (831) 647-4257
					  Fax          (831) 647-4250
				  Internet       mbnms@igc.apc.org

Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary 
Research Activity Panel Meeting Minutes

Ocean View Conference Room, MBA
Monterey, California
Friday, February 17, 1995 - 1300 to 1630 hrs

Minutes taken and transcribed by:
Aaron King, Monterey Bay NMS - RAP Executive Coordinator

Member Attendees

Greg Cailliet, Moss Landing Marine Labs, RAP Chairman
Laura Ehret, Naval Postgraduate School
Steve Eittreim, USGS
Mark Pickett (for Terry Jackson), Assist. Manager, MBNMS
Deborah Johnston, CDFG/Monterey
Jim Harvey, Moss Landing Marine Labs
Ken Parker, OAB
Gary Sharp, CIRIOS
Mark Stephenson, CDFG/Marine Pollution Studies Lab
Chris Harrold, Monterey Bay Aquarium 
Bruce Robison, MBARI 
Don Potts, UCSC
Mary Yoklavich (for George Boehlert), NOAA/NMFS/PFEG

Members Not Able to Attend:

Jan Roletto, GFNMS
Andrew DeVogelaere, ESNERR and Foundation
Jim Rote, NOAA/OCRM
Rick Starr, Univ. of CA, Sea Grant Advisory Program
Dennis Powers, Hopkins Marine Station
Cliff Hoskins, Department of the Interior 
Les Strnad, California Coastal Commission
Stephen Mueller, Morro Bay Foundation

Guest Attendees:

Ellen Fourot-Daniels - FSO, Conservation Working Group
Jack Wickham - Conservation Working Group
Allen Tom - On-Site-Coordinator, NOAA HWNMS
Wendall Nuss - NPS


Greg Cailliet, RAP Chair, introduced the meeting. 

Quick discussion items:

Introductions - Introductions were made around the 
table.  

Approval of the January 13, 1995, Meeting Minutes 
(Cailliet) - Motion to approve made without amendment, 
and approved unanimously.  Gary Sharp stated that the 
minutes for the previous minutes had been corrected 
wrong, and that CODR resolution should be corrected to 4 
meters.

REINAS Presentation (Nuss) - Dr. Nuss requested that 
he give this presentation between 1:00 and 2:00 pm.

      A project called the Real-time Environmental 
Information Network and Analysis System (REINAS) was 
described by Prof. Wendell Nuss of NPS. REINAS is a 
collaborative effort between NPS, UCSC and MBARI to 
build a real-time data collection, data management and 
data visualization system for meteorological and 
oceanographic observations around the Monterey Bay. The 
system is a distributed computing system consisting of 
data collection nodes, data management computers, and 
visualization on SGI workstations on the INTERNET using 
software developed at UCSC. The project is midway 
through its Navy-sponsored funding cycle and is maturing 
toward an operational system.
    The data collection aspects of the system involve 
the collection of a large variety of meteorological and 
oceanographic data through various sources.
     Presently surface meteorological data is collected 
from REINAS instrument sites, NDBC and MBARI buoys, 
NWS/FAA sites, California Department of Forestry sites, 
and sites maintained by the Monterey Bay Air Pollution 
Control District and the Bay Area Air Quality Management 
District. Upper-air observations from rawinsondes and 
doppler wind profilers are also collected. Oceanographic 
data from several CODAR systems are collected in real-
time as well. In addition  to observational 
measurements, numerical model products and satellite 
imagery are also planned to be incorporated into the 
REINAS data base at some point.
    The data management part of the system is a 
modification of standard data base functioning to 
accomodate high volume and high frequency data streams 
in real time. Both loading and real-time querying are 
part of the UCSC data base design. At present the system 
exists at one site but will eventually become a 
federated data base at several sites.
    The visualization consists of both rudimentary real-
time displays and some very high-end visualization 
software developed at UCSC called spray rendering. The 
real-time displays can be accessed using mosaic 
(http://csl.cse .ucsc.edu) and the spray rendering 
software is being developed for more sophisticated data 
explorations in both real-time and retrospective modes.

When Dr. Nuss was finished, Aaron asked him to clarify 
some issues on his request for time on the R/V McArthur.

Report on the SAC meeting (Cailliet) - The Chair 
reported on the Jan. 20 SAC meeting.  The following 
subjects were either discussed by the SAC, or were 
brought up by Greg at the SAC meeting on issues that 
were of concern by the RAP:  Chocolate Abalone Dive, 
Shark Chumming and the resulting resolution passed by 
the SAC, Fort Ord Offshore Area, Research Coordinator, 
Site Characterization, Electronic Communications, R/V 
McArthur, Strategic Planning, Research Symposium, ATOC - 
Including presentation by each of the working groups on 
their resolutions regarding ATOC at which point Greg 
presented the RAP's resolution, clerical budget for the 
SAC, Piedras Blancas and Elephant seals, and finally, 
the Salinas River lagoon.

Fort Ord Offshore Environmental Risk Analysis 
(Cailliet) - Greg announced that the Army will be 
reporting to the SAC on its offshore work at the next 
SAC meeting.

Research Coordinator Position Status 
(Jackson/Cailliet) - The Chair had asked the RAP to 
consider, for this meeting, appointing a RAP RC 
Selection Subcommittee.  Mark briefed the RAP in where 
the contract now stands.  The RAP selected a 
subcommittee composed of George Boehlert, Gary Sharp, 
Greg Cailliet (or other MLML designate) and Don Potts to 
review the RC applicants and develop a recommendation on 
the position.

NOAA Guide to MBNMS/GFNMS/CBNMS Marine 
Researchers (King) -  Aaron described plans to update 
Sam Farr's 1992 Research Directory.  He passed around 
packets of information, from Farr's directory, on the 
various researchers and institutions, with instructions 
on how each of the RAP members should go about updating 
their institution's and associated researchers' 
information.  Aaron stated that he intended to make this 
database one of the first resources loaded on the MBNMS 
Internet Server.  The Chair encouraged each RAP member 
to edit their packages and return them to Aaron ASAP.

Permit Report (King) - Aaron stated that he had no 
information on hand to update the RAP, but that Greg 
would be receiving a permit update at the SAC meeting.

SRD Research Coordinator (Cailliet) - Greg 
announced that SRD had hired a program-wide Research 
Coordinator, Dwight Trueblood, whose research background 
was in soft-bottom benthic ecology.  If any members 
wished to get in contact with him, his number is (301) 
713-3145 (ext. 174).

Electronic Communications Update (King) - Aaron 
announced that the MBNMS internet wire will be installed 
on April 12.  The UCSC internet publication class, SRD 
HQ, and others, are helping MBNMS get together the 
necessary software and hardware for this effort.  Aaron 
stated that he felt the MBNMS office would have numerous 
resources ready to go online as soon as the wire was 
hooked up by CalREN.  Laura Ehret offered the help of 
Mike McCaine at NPS to help MBNMS get online.  Aaron 
thanked Laura for that, and said he would contact him.

Institutional Permit Status (King) - Nothing new to 
report.

RAP Binder (King) - Aaron is waiting until the SAC 
binder is finished, to use it as a template for the RAP 
Binder.

Next Monterey Bay Research Symposium 
(Parker/Starr) - Nothing new to report.

RAP Membership Invitation to CSUMB (Cailliet) - 
Draft invitation letter to Peter Smith passed out to 
RAP, with cc:'s to Bill Head and Jim Rote (recently 
hired faculty members).  Don Potts suggested that the 
letter be more explicit to indicate that the RAP is 
interested in having a scientist be the representative.

Biodiversity Conference (Cailliet) - Greg announced 
his participation in this conference (March 3-5) in San 
Francisco, and how he has been asked to give a 
presentation on "Managing for Biodiversity."  Greg asked 
any members for help in pulling together info for this 
presentation.

House Appropriations Interviews (Cailliet) - Greg 
described the interview that he had with this House 
committee staff team.

RAP/MBNMS Review of Research Proposals - 
	In Review/Reviewed:
		- Waddell Bluff/Highway 1 Project (Johnston) - 
			Nothing requested by SAC or MBNMS
		- Friends of the Sea Otter (Harrold) - Letter 
			handed out.
		- Cailliet/Starr Sea Grant Proposal 
			(DeVogelaere) - Letter handed out.
	New Requests:
		- None

OSPREE Report Reply (King) - Aaron passed out a 
reply the RAP had received from the writers of the 
OSPREE report in response to the RAP's review of this 
draft report.

	BREAK

	DISCUSSION ITEMS

ATOC (Cailliet) -  Greg announced his recent reception 
of a letter from Charlie Wahle explaining why the 
Sanctuary program has requested that the ATOC source be 
moved out of the MBNMS.  This discussion started with a 
presentation by Mark Pickett.  Mark's statement covered 
seven points: 1) That the Sanctuary program has 
requested, and ATOC has agreed, that the ATOC source be 
moved out of the Sanctuary;  2) That two alternate sites 
were being considered, including Sur Slope and Pioneer 
Seamount;  3) That one outcome of this decision is a 
significant reduction in the ATOC MMRP, since there 
would be less pressure to get this done if it was 
outside of the Sanctuary;  4) That all input was 
considered by the Sanctuary program in this decision, 
particularly that made by the Sanctuary working groups 
and SAC;  5) That numerous levels of the Sanctuary 
program were involved in the decision, and that the 
final decision to ask that the project be moved was made 
unanimously during a recent conference call;  6)  That 
NMFS supports going forward with the project, and; 7)  
That Charlie Wahle would be out here for the SAC meeting 
next Friday, and would be happy to meet with the RAP or 
a delegation from it.  The RAP first wanted to know what 
the exact hierarchy that had been involved in this 
decision, and who represented those levels.  There was 
some discussion about the new possible site at Pioneer 
Seamont, and how this would not be a good site due to 
the geology of the area, the distance offshore and the 
amount of fishing along there.  Jim Harvey discussed how 
he felt the MBNMS should not even be getting involved in 
the mammal issue, since the Sanctuary regulation only 
deals with disturbance of the seafloor.  Why should the 
Sanctuary program be concerned, when NMFS (the NOAA 
marine mammal experts) have no problems with the 
project?  Several RAP members indicated their belief 
that since the Sanctuary program had not made the 
decision based on the amount of scientific information 
available, then the decision must have been made on a 
political level, responding to the public outcry.  There 
was concern expressed, particularly by Jim Harvey, that 
Terry Jackson had not stuck up for this project, since 
he should have been enlightened as to the facts versus 
the unfounded rhetoric being put out by misguided 
environmentalists, nor had he communicated his stand to 
any RAP member.  Several institutions were directed not 
to take any official position on ATOC.  Some RAP members 
from these institutions indicated that they had sent 
personal letters of support to ATOC.  The Chair outlined 
three possible courses of action the RAP could take: 
write a letter of protest, get a committee together to 
meet with NOAA people, and lastly, hold a press 
conference.  Jim Harvey spent some time discussing, with 
several persons adding in, the benefits of having the 
research within the MBNMS, versus the problems 
associated with having it outside the Sanctuary, 
including:

1.  The Sanctuary program will no longer be able to 
exert any more influence (i.e.: permit conditions, 
monitoring, etc.) on the project, even though it will 
continue to affect Sanctuary resources.

2.  The resources the program intends to protect by 
moving the project are migratory/transient, and will 
continue to be affected no matter where the transmitter 
is.

3.  Six months' worth of marine mammal baseline research 
data are now useless, since the survey results at Point 
Sur cannot be applied to Pioneer Seamount.

4.  Submarine features and geology on, and leading to, 
the Pioneer Seamount, will make it difficult to install, 
operate and maintain the transmitter.  Local marine 
geologists (people not accessible to ARPA/ATOC when they 
agreed to move the transmitter there) claim the Pioneer 
Seamount is known to exhibit massive geological slumping 
and wasting, causing the possibility that the 
transmitter could be buried under sediment or move 
before long.

5.  The area leading to the Pioneer Seamount (unlike Sur 
Ridge) is heavily fished by large bottom trawlers, who 
could snag any cables running to the site.

Harvey summarized by stating that, since this was a 
research project, and since the RAP's advice had been 
asked, and since the RAP's answer had been so 
unequivocal, that the advice should have been taken, or 
at least more seriously considered.  He also said that 
if the RAP is asked for it's advice, but that advice is 
never taken, then he sees little use in continuing to 
agree to give advice, especially at such a cost of 
volunteer time.

Chris Harrold stated that a commitment exists, whenever 
someone asks for advice but then decides against 
following that advice, to explain to the advisor(s) why 
such a decision is made.  He stated that he would, 
rather then judge Terry in absentia or have it explained 
by Mark, like to hear directly from Terry why he did not 
support the project to his HQ.  A discussion ensued on 
the general Sanctuary decision-making process, with the 
understanding that everyone knew what the RAP's position 
was, and that it was weighed in the decision to move the 
transmitter.  However, a decision such as this is not 
one that the Washington powers-that-be are going to 
allow the local community to make.  It was suggested 
that HQ should not even be involved in such decision-
making; that it should be made at the local level, with 
HQ supporting and implementing that decision, instead of 
the other way around.  Otherwise, why have local 
advisors?  From here the discussion turned to the 
reasons for creating the MBNMS, and why the area needed 
any more regulations that just seem to regulate 
research, and not the activities that have a significant 
influence on the area.  Don Potts brought up the 
discussion of how the letter from Wahle should be 
answered.  Greg suggested that the RAP should not just 
"answer" Wahle's letter, but a series of letters that 
have come out lately to various people from SRD on ATOC.  
A committee to compose the response letter was selected 
to include Jim Harvey, Chris Harrold and Steve Eittreim.  
At this point the RAP discussed Charlie's letter, and 
mentioned two particular statements (3rd paragraph, last 
sentence and 6th paragraph, last sentence) which claimed 
that a lack of evidence existed to satisfy protection 
concerns.  The RAP generally felt that there is a 
mountain of evidence to satisfy these concerns, and that 
if we wait for absolutes, all scientific endeavors will 
come to a grinding halt.

NOAA R/V McArthur (Jackson) - Aaron displayed the 
draft time line for the cruise plan as it presently 
existed.  Two notes:  The pull test for the McArthur A-
Frame have rated it at 12,000 lbs; and the ship will 
pre-cruise loading in San Francisco instead of San 
Diego.  Aaron described how the two legs of the cruise 
were planned to be run.  The first leg of the voyage 
will be essentially composed of USGS coring and Pott's 
diving.  The second leg of the cruise will be 
essentially composed of Harvey et al doing bird and 
mammal survey's and Potts doing more diving.  More work 
still needs to be done to get Nuss's project into the 
schedule at an opportune place.  The RAP encouraged 
Aaron to get together a group of cruise participants to 
enable them to work out such details at the earliest 
opportunity.

MBNMS Research Budget (Jackson) - Aaron presented a 
report by the MBNMS program for review by the RAP.  The 
first part was a list of priorities that the MBNMS 
Program would like to see filled with the limited 
research budget we now have.  Attached to these 
priorities were procedures the MBNMS would like to 
follow to ensure the quality of the research and the 
simplicity of the program administration.  The RAP 
considered possible composition of a Budget 
Subcommittee, but decided to retain review of the MBNMS 
as a Committee of the Whole.  For the Monitoring aspect, 
the RAP suggested the MBNMS get each of the potential 
researchers to submit a 2-page summary of their project 
to be reviewed by the RAP at the March meeting, with a 
decision being made at the April meeting.  The RAP 
decided to ask Rikk Kvitek to present a preliminary 
report on the Site Characterization to them at the April 
meeting, with a request that he make a suggestion as to 
how the study could benefit from an additional $25,000.  
No decision for the time being was made on what to do 
with the remaining money in the Information Management 
budget.


	OTHER ITEMS

Other Old Business - Mary announced the Sanctuary's 
purchase of a plaque that was presented to Richard 
Parrish for his keynote address at the Research 
Symposium.

New Business - Greg brought up the idea of moving the 
meetings back to the morning, a vote was taken, and it 
was decided to make it for the morning.

Items for future meetings -

	- Monterey Academy of Oceanography

	- April 21, 1994 Meeting: Set last six month RAP 
       Meeting Schedule

	- Open

	ADJOURN


RESEARCH ACTIVITY PANEL
A WORKING GROUP OF THE 
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY ADVISORY COUNCIL
299 Foam St
Monterey, California  93940 
					Phone          (831) 647-4257
					  Fax          (831) 647-4250
				  Internet       mbnms@igc.apc.org

	February 15, 1995

Research Advisory Panel

Dear Member:

	The minutes from the January 13, 1995, RAP meeting 
and the next meeting's a agenda are enclosed with this
correspondence.  The next RAP meeting is being held on 
Friday, February 17, 1995, in the Monterey Bay 
Aquarium's Ocean View Conference Room from 1 pm 
to 4:30 pm.

	If you have any questions, or wish to add topics to 
the agenda please contact Aaron King at the numbers 
listed above.


							Cheers,



							Dr. Gregor Cailliet 
							RAP Chair

RESEARCH ACTIVITY PANEL
A WORKING GROUP OF THE 
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY ADVISORY COUNCIL
299 Foam St
Monterey, California  93940 
					Phone          (831) 647-4257
					  Fax          (831) 647-4250
				  Internet       mbnms@igc.apc.org

	February 15, 1995


MBNMS RAP Interested Parties:

	The minutes from the January 13, 1995, RAP meeting 
and the next meeting's a agenda are enclosed with this
correspondence.  The next RAP meeting is being held on 
Friday, February 17, 1995, in the Monterey Bay 
Aquarium's Ocean View Conference Room from 1 pm 
to 4:30 pm.

	While you are not a member of the RAP, this 
information is being copied to you for informational 
purposes.  However, you are welcome to attend the 
upcoming meeting as an observer.  If you would like to 
attend, please call me at the numbers listed above.

	Finally, I would like to take a moment to discuss 
RAP communications with you.  There are three means by 
which I communicate and coordinate activities of the 
RAP: mail, fax and email.  Lately, the RAP has become 
extremely dependent upon email communications.  Every 
member of the RAP has email, and this process makes it 
very easy for me to coordinate their activities.  If 
some material contains graphics, or is too long for 
email, I may fax it to each of the RAP members (since 
they all have fax machines also).  Finally, if some 
correspondence is too long or inappropriate for faxing, 
I may mail it to the RAP membership.  The bottom line is 
that many of you do not have email or fax capabilities.  
If you don't, you cannot be assured of receiving all RAP 
correspondence.  If you want to be assured of receiving 
all this info, please arrange for email and fax service 
and I will be happy to add you to those lists.


						Sincerely,



						Mr. Aaron E. King 
						RAP Executive Coordinator

RESEARCH ACTIVITY PANEL
A WORKING GROUP OF THE 
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY ADVISORY COUNCIL
299 Foam St
Monterey, California  93940 

					Phone          (831) 647-4257
					  Fax          (831) 647-4250
				  Internet       mbnms@igc.apc.org


Dear Members:

This is to remind you all that the next RAP meeting on 
Friday, February 17, 1995, will be in the Ocean View 
Conference Room at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, and will 
start at 1 PM. 

I have just faxed the Jan. 13 Draft Minutes and the 
Feb. 17 Agenda to you.  Please contact me if you wish to 
place any other items on the meeting agenda.

Sincerely,

Aaron King


RESEARCH ACTIVITY PANEL
A WORKING GROUP OF THE 
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY ADVISORY COUNCIL
299 Foam St
Monterey, California  93940 
					Phone          (831) 647-4257
					  Fax          (831) 647-4250
				  Internet       mbnms@igc.apc.org

RAP Meeting Agenda

Ocean View Conference Room
Monterey Bay Aquarium
Monterey, CA

Friday, February 17, 1995, 1300 to 1630 hrs

	ANNOUNCEMENTS:

Introduction of Members and Participants

	a) Members Not Able to Attend:

	b) Meeting Member Substitutions:

	c) Guest Attendees:

		- Wendall Nuss - NPS

List:  
	Greg Cailliet, MLML - RAP Chairman
	Laura Ehret, Naval Postgraduate School
	Steve Eittreim, USGS
	Chris Harrold, Monterey Bay Aquarium 
	Jim Harvey, Moss Landing Marine Labs
	Cliff Hoskins, Department of the Interior 
	Terry Jackson, Manager, Monterey Bay NMS
	Deborah Johnston, CA DFG/ Monterey
	Ken Parker, OAB
	Don Potts, UCSC
	Karen Worcester, Morro Bay Foundation
	Bill Schramm, OAB 
	Gary Sharp, CIRIOS
	Rick Starr, Univ. of CA, Sea Grant Advisory Program
	Mark Stephenson of CDFG/Mar. Pollution Studies Lab
	George Boehlert, NOAA/NMFS/PFEG
	Andrew DeVogelaere, ESNERR and Foundation
	Dennis Powers, Hopkins Marine Station
	Bruce Robison, MBARI 
	Jan Roletto, GFNMS
	Jim Rote, NOAA/OCRM
	Les Strnad, CA Coastal Commission 

Introductions

Approval of the January 13, 1995, Meeting Minutes 
(Cailliet)

REINIS Presentation (Nuss) - Dr. Nuss has requested that 
he give this presentation between 1:00 and 2:00 pm.

Report on the SAC meeting (Cailliet)

Fort Ord Offshore Environmental Risk Analysis (Cailliet)

Research Coordinator Position Status (Jackson/Cailliet) 
- The Chair asked the RAP to consider, for this meeting, 
appointing a RAP RC Selection Subcommittee.

NOAA Guide to MBNMS/GFNMS/CBNMS Marine Researchers 
(King)

Permit Report (King) 

Electronic Communications Update (King)

Institutional Permit Status (King)

RAP Binder (King)

Next Monterey Bay Research Symposium (Parker)

RAP Membership Invitation to CSUMB (Cailliet)

Biodiversity Conference (Cailliet)

House Appropriations Interviews (Cailliet)

RAP/MBNMS Review of Research Proposals
	In Review/Reviewed:
		- Waddell Bluff/Highway 1 Project (Johnston)
		- Friends of the Sea Otter (Harrold)
		- Cailliet/Starr Sea Grant Proposal 
			(DeVogelaere)
	New Requests:
		- None

	BREAK

	DISCUSSION ITEMS

ATOC Update (Cailliet)

MBNMS Research Budget (Jackson) - MBNMS staff will 
present a list of priorities for review by the RAP.  The 
RAP was to consider possible composition of a Budget 
Subcommittee.

NOAA R/V McArthur (Jackson)


	OTHER ITEMS

Other Old Business - Open

New Business - Open

Items for future meetings -

	- Monterey Academy of Oceanography

	- April 21, 1994 Meeting: Set last six month RAP 
       Meeting Schedule

	- Open

	ADJOURN




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