# Presentation: 391214

## COST ESTIMATE FOR A FIFTY KILO TON SOLID SCINTILLATOR DETECTOR FOR THE NuMI OFF-AXIS EXPERIMENT 

***Brajesh Choudhary,  FERMILAB, 26.April.2003 *****To be presented by Doug Michael, CALTECH**

## http://home.fnal.gov/~brajesh/50KTon-Off-Axis-SS-Detector.ppt

**TALK LOCATION**

## OUTLINE OF THE PRESENTATION

- Acknowledgements
- Why this size (50 Kton)?
- Some facts from MINOS
- Proposed size & design of the off-axis detector
- Amount of scintillator needed & its cost
- Choice of the fiber diameter and cost
- Choice of PMT, electronics, readout, and cost
- Total estimated cost for an OFF-AXIS detector
- Summary

## Thanks are due in alphabetical order to:

**Thanks are due in alphabetical order to:**
- Leslie Camilleri for discussion
- Tony Mann for comments
- Doug Michael for discussion, and some of the MINOS numbers.
- Jeff Nelson for providing weight of the MINOS Fe plane
- Adam Para for ideas, and discussion
- Anna Pla-Dalmau for providing scintilltaor weight/unit length  and various MINOS scintillator costs
- Alfons Webber for M64 base cost

## Please look at the document

**Please look at the document**

**Letter from ****Fred Gilman, Chair HEPAP,**** to ****Dr. Ray Orbach, Director,**** ****Office of Science, U.S Department of Energy, ****dated March 17, 2003.**

## MEMBERS OF THE HEP FACILITIES COMMITTEE :  PAGE 10 OF THE DOCUMENT

**MEMBERS OF THE HEP FACILITIES COMMITTEE ****:  PAGE 10 OF THE DOCUMENT**

## WHAT DOES THE DOCUMENT SAYS? PAGE 8 OF THE DOCUMENT

**WHAT DOES THE DOCUMENT SAYS? ****PAGE 8 OF THE DOCUMENT**

## WHAT DOES THE DOCUMENT SAYS? PAGE 22 OF THE DOCUMENT

**WHAT DOES THE DOCUMENT SAYS? ****PAGE 22 OF THE DOCUMENT**

## WHAT DOES THE DOCUMENT SAYS? PAGE 22 OF THE DOCUMENT

**WHAT DOES THE DOCUMENT SAYS? ****PAGE 22 OF THE DOCUMENT**

## Each Plane of MINOS FD uses

- 80 long strips, each 8m long – a total of 640m of scintillator
- Four, 28 strip wide modules use respectively 194m, 194m, 131m, & 131m of scintillator
- Total scintillator length used in each MINOS module is  640+2194+2131 = 1290m.
- The scintillator weights about 0.426Kg/m **(from Anna Pla)**
- Every plane of MINOS FD used ~550Kg of Scintillator
- Each plane of MINOS FD is ~53 sq. meter in area.

## Bottom steel plane layer

- Top steel plane layer

- Scintillator plane
- Orientations alternate 90o in successive planes

- 2-m wide,
- 0.5-inch thick,
- steel plates

**STEEL AND SCINTILLATOR LAYOUT FOR THE MINOS DETECTOR**

## SCINTILLATOR MODULES ON A MINOS PLANE

**SCINTILLATOR MODULES ON A MINOS PLANE**

- 8 Modules cover one FD steel plane
- Four, 20 strip wide modules in the middle
- Four, 28 strip wide modules on the edges

## MINOS used scintillator worth 500 planes (484 planes mounted + veto shield [about 100, 20 wide modules, i.e, 16000m of scintillator – equivalent to 12.4 planes]+ few damaged modules + calibration module [equivalent to 1.1 FD plane] )

- Total scintillator used by MINOS FD ~550Kg500planes=275tons
- MINOS ND used  ~16 tons of scintillator
- A wastage factor of 4-8% (~4% for longer strips, ~8% for shorter strips)
- Thus MINOS used approximately 302 to 314 tons of scintillator.

**LETS CONTINUE WITH THE MINOS**

## OFF-AXIS DETECTOR – A DESIGN – X - VIEW

**10.5m in width**  **+ ****10.5m in width**

**256 strip high**

**256 strip high**

**256 strip high**

**256 strip high**

- 10.5m in height also.

- 10.5m in height also.

**Readout on sides**

**Readout on sides**

## 10.5m in width + 10.5m in width

**10.5m in width** **+ ****10.5m in width**

**256 strip wide**

**256 strip wide**

**256 strip wide**

**256 strip wide**

- 10.5m in height also.

- 10.5m in height also.

**Readout on ****TOP(?)**** & ****BOTTOM(?)**

**OFF-AXIS DETECTOR – A DESIGN ****– Y - VIEW**

##    OFF-AXIS DETECTOR – A DESIGN

- The size of each plane of the detector will be 21m X 21m, or 441m2.
- Each plane of the detector will be broken into 4 parts, each part  having an area of 10.5m X 10.5m. They will be arranged as shown earlier. Each broken part will have 256 strips, each strip being 10.5m long, 4.1cm wide, and 1cm thick, coated with ~10-12% TiO2, with a groove in middle of  4.1cm side (same as MINOS).
- The scintillator modules will be 32 strips wide. One quad of a plane will be covered by 8 scintillator modules. Each plane will require 32 modules.
- The readout will be single sided. The quads in the odd numbered planes will be read out on sides, and the even numbered planes will be read out on top and ***“bottom(???)”***, or vice-versa to have X & Y readout.
- Each plane has been broken into 4 quads, each with 256 strips. Four M64’s can be used to readout each quad. Each plane will require 16 M64’s.

## AMOUNT OF SCINTILLATOR NEEDED

- Each plane will require = 4  256  10.5m = 10752m of scintillator, or 10752  0.426 = 4580Kg of scintillator.
- With an average wastage factor of ~7% (includes extrusion factory and construction factory wastage) , each plane will require about 4900Kg (4.9 Tons) of scintillator.
- Each plane of the MINOS detector uses 1290m of strips. NuMI off-axis will use 10752m. MINOS iron plates are 2.54cm thick. Lets assume that NuMI off-axis detector will use 20cm thick particle board. The density of iron is 7.86gm/cm3  and the density of particle board is ~0.7gm/cm3.
- Each NuMI off-axis plane will weight  equivalent to (10752200.7)/(12902.547.86) = 5.85 MINOS plane.

## Each plane in MINOS weighs ~11.5 tons, of which iron weighs ~10.8 tons, scintillator weights ~0.55 tons and aluminum adds additional ~0.15 tons (from Jeff Nelson). 

- The NuMI off-axis plane will weight about ~63.2 tons in passive material.  Scintillator and aluminum will add another ~5.84 tons. The final weight of each plane will be ~69 tons.
- For a 50Kton total mass detector (21m X 21m in height and width) and 33Kton of fiducial volume (17m X 17m in size, ~65%), the detector will need to have 725 planes.
- All calculations will be done for a 725 plane detector.
- The total active area of the detector will be ~320K, m2.
- The fiducial area will be ~210K, m2.

**AMOUNT OF SCINTILLATOR NEEDED**

## RADIATION LENGTH PER PLANE

- 20cm thick particle board (density = 0.7gm/cm3) is ~ 1/3rd of a radiation length per tracking plane, which implies that alternating X and Y tracking plane will be at 2/3rd of a radiation length.
- One can design either a 725 plane detector with 2/3rd of a radiation length per tracking plane and the geometry as presented here. Or,
- One can have an active layer of X and Y plane together at every 20cm, for a 1/3rd radiation length per tracking plane in which case, for a 50Kton total mass detector one will need a total of 668 passive planes, but 668•2=1336 active planes.
- The cost of the active part of the detector in such a scenario will go up by a factor of ~1336/725=1.84 times.
- Common cost factor will be separated.

##  Setup Cost for the Factory ~ $300K

- Cost of new die  ~ $30K (assume that it will take at least 3 die at $10K/die to get the standard size)
- New profile ~ $50-100K
- New Vendor ~ $100-200K.
- Total Cost of the above three items ~ $300K.
** ****Setup Cost for the Factory ~ $300K**

**R&D with 10.5m Scintillator ~$400K.**

## Number of planes 725. 

- Number of planes 725.
- Each plane needs ~ 4.9 tons of scintillator.
- Total scintillator needed  ~ 3,550 tons.
- For 1/3Xo multiply this amount by 1.84. Total amount will be 6,540 tons.

## Lets assume that we can keep the cost at $9.00/Kg.

| Items | MINOS Cost | Off-Axis Cost |
| --- | --- | --- |
| Extruded Scintillator from Itasca. (Includes DOW 663 + 60%TiO2/PS mix + N2  purge + 1 Tech at factory) | $5.15
(Based on $0.6692 for each feet of extruded scintillator) | $5.40 
(Quote is $0.70 for each feet of extruded scintillator.) |
| PPO (Curtiss Lab) | $1.43 ($135/Kg) | $1.43 ($135/Kg) |
| POPOP (Curtiss Lab) | $0.22 ($650/Kg) | $0.22 ($650/Kg) |
| Rest Other Stuff (Fermi Folks + QC at Fermi + Transportation etc. etc. | $2.20 | $2.20
Lets assume that this cost stays the same. |
| Total Cost | $9.00 | $9.25 |

**Lets assume that we can keep the cost at $9.00/Kg**.

## For 2/3Xo the cost will be ~$32M.

**For 2/3Xo the cost will be ~$32M.**
**For 1/3Xo the cost will be ~$59M.**
- One may(??) reduce this cost by further R&D in the extrusion process, more innovative ways of extrusion, several vendors, or a vendor with a very large capacity of extrusion.
***This must be discussed and explored in case of a  solid scintillator detector. But this is the best available quote we have now.****** ***

## SCINTILLATOR MODULE COMPONENTS AND COST

**MINOS Cost for Components (from Doug Michael):**
- Aluminum (2 skins) ~ 12/m2 of module
- Manifolds, etc ~ $200/module (~$5-10K startup)
- Glues, expendables ~ $12/m2 of module
- Connectors ~ $5/module
**Total area of the Off-Axis Detector = 725****•441=320K, m****2****. Calculate the cost based on MINOS experience and divide by 1.3.**
- Aluminum skin cost = $3.0M  (Factor of 1.3 has been taken into account).
- Manifold Needed  ~ 725•4•8•1.025= 23,780. MINOS uses two manifold/module. Off-Axis needs only one manifold/module. Total manifold  cost= $1.85M
- Total Cost for glues, expendables = $3.0M. **(Factor of 1.3 has been taken into account.)**
- Total Connector Needed ~ 725•4•8•21.05= 48,720. Cost (keep at $5 per connector). $245K.

**TOTAL COMPONENT COST FOR OFF-AXIS DETECTOR =$8.1M.**

## TOTAL ASSEMBLY COST = $9.5M

**MINOS experience from CALTECH (from Doug Michael):**
- 20 hours/module for MINOS
- Cost at CALTECH rate for MINOS ~$400/module
**OFF-AXIS Detector Assembly Cost ($20/hr rate):**
-  20 hours/module as in MINOS. Cost/module = ~$400. Total cost = 725•4•8•$400•1.025 = $9.5M
**TOTAL ASSEMBLY COST = $9.5M**

##  Total Setup Cost Per Factory = $500K

**MINOS experience from CALTECH (from Doug Michael):**
- Setup for different style modules ~ 2 weeks = 800 hours.
- Setup with MINOS equipment at a new site and new crew ~4000hrs
- New equipment equivalent to MINOS ~ $400K.
**OFF-AXIS Detector Factory Setup Cost (based on MINOS rate):**
- Total setup cost/factory = 5000 hrs.
- Cost per factory = 5000 hrs  $20/hour = $100K
- Equipments/factory = $400K
-  **Total Setup Cost Per Factory = $500K**

##    FIBRE DIAMETER DECISION

- The experiment will need to use 1.2mm diameter fiber.
- In MINOS with a 1.2mm fiber, one gets ~10pe at the near end and ~3pe at the far end from the PMT.
- Since the readout will be one sided one will need to silver or mirror the far end of the fiber. Due to mirroring a light gain of ~50%-60% is expected from the far end. With this additional gain, but further attenuation due to longer fiber compared to MINOS (10.5m vs. 8m) one expects to get an average of about ~4pe ***(is it enough?? or is it too much??)*** from the far end, which should be sufficient for physics.
- With a 0.8mm/0.9mm/1mm/1.1mm fiber one will get only about 57%(2.3pe)/67%(2.7pe)/77%(3.1pe)/89%(3.5pe) of light compared to 1.2mm of fiber. **[**_**DO WE NEED TO DICUSS FIBRE DIAMETER**_**??].**

## FIBRE PRICE QUOTE FROM KURARAY FOR 10+ MILLION METERS – DDP FNAL 

| WLS Fibre Multiclad. Diamater  in mm | Unit Price in US $ per Meter | Light Output Compared to 1.2mm Fibre | Light Output for U shape fibre (3.55±0.35) NuMI-L-414 |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 0.4 | 0.15 | 0.21 | 0.75 |
| 0.5 | 0.22 | 0.29 | 1.03 |
| 0.6 | 0.31 | 0.38 | 1.35 |
| 0.7 | 0.43 | 0.47 | 1.67 |
| 0.8 | 0.56 | 0.57 | 2.02 |
| 0.9 | 0.70 | 0.67 | 2.38 |
| 1.0 | 0.76 | 0.77 |  |
| 1.1 | 0.92 | 0.89 |  |
| 1.2 | 1.08 | 1.00 |  |

- Is U shape fibre a realistic concept?
- It is a great theoretical idea, which works on the test bench, but in my opinion it will not be prudent to use this concept for a 50Kton detector. Anyhow it will not save much money.

**Price quote from Kuraray dated 4.14.03**

**Cost for 0.4mm & 0.5mm is an extrapolation**

##           FIBRE NEED AND COST

- There will be no multiplexing.
- Lets assume that the PMT housing box will be at least 2 meters away from where the manifold ends, as shown in figure on the next page. Clear fiber will be needed to connect the manifold with the PMT. The amount of clear fiber/strip is shown on next page.
- WLS fiber calculation - Lets assume that on an average 1.5m of extra fiber per strip will be needed in the manifold to take the fiber properly through the manifold.
- Wastage and spare ~8%. Each scintillator strip will need ~13m of WLS fiber.

**          ****FIBRE NEED AND COST**

## 2m

- 3 and 4

**2 PMTs**

**Module 1**

**Module 5**

**Module 2**

**Module 6**

**Module 3**

**Module 7**

**Module 4**

**Module 8**

**541cm**

**541cm**

- 1 and 2

**2 PMTs**

- 2 meters from manifold to the PMT stand

**2m**

**For Module 2/3 & 6/7 an average of 2.5m fibre/strip.**
**For Modules 1/4 & 5/8, an average of 3.0m fibre/strip.**
**Total clear fibre cable needed with 10% wastage per plane will be 3.1Km. **

## FIBRE NEED AND COST

- Total WLS fibre needed = 725425613•1.025 = 9.9M meters.
- Total CLEAR fibre needed=7253.1Km1.025=2.3M meters
- Cost for Kuraray WLS Y11(175), MC, J-type, non-S, 1.2mm diameter fiber ~ $1.08/meter (DDP Fermilab for 10M meters or more), and ~$0.87/meter (DDP Fermilab for 20M meters or more)
**[Price quote from Kuraray – based on a 14.April.03 quote for 10/15/20M meters of 0.6 to 1.2mm fibers.]**
**Total WLS + CLEAR fiber cost = $13.2M ($19.5M)**

## TOTAL WLS FIBRE + CLEAR FIBRE CABLE COST = $14.5M ($20.8M)

**Cost of CLEAR fiber cable: (20/28 fiber in MINOS vs. 32 fibers)**
- $1/meter for conduit (from MINOS) – Total Cost for conduit for off-axis  $1/meter•725planes•4quad/plane•8modules/quad •3meters/conduit•1.025= $72K.
- $8/meter for connectors and shrouds (from MINOS) – Total cost - $8/cable•725planes•4quad/plane•8modules/quad•1.025 shroud/module = $190K.
- 2 hours/cable assembly labor (~$44/cable) (from MINOS) – For off-axis one will require 72548•1.025=23,780 cables. Total cost = $1.0M
- Total Cost for CLEAR Fiber cables = $1.3M.

**TOTAL WLS FIBRE + CLEAR FIBRE CABLE COST = $14.5M ($20.8M)**

## R7600U-00-64 PMT COST Dated 03. April. 2003

- R5900 series of M64 PMT has been discontinued by Hamamatsu and replaced with R7600U-00-64 series.
- Price quote from Don Lowell of Hamamatsu
- _[Dlowell@hamamtsu.com](mailto:Dlowell@hamamtsu.com)_, Phone No: 847-825-6046
- Price requested for 12K to 22K PMT’s. Price for any quantity above 12K remains unchanged.
- The quoted price per tube is (1 USD = 115-120 JPY):
- Bare tube with insulating can  ~$600
- Simple Dynode Assembly  ~$175
- Above Assembly + ASIC installed  ~$225

## E-MAIL FROM HAMAMATSU

**Date: Thursday, April 3, 2003 11:04 am**
**To:brajesh@fnal.gov**
**Sub:Re: Price for M64.**
**Good Morning, Brajesh****I had gone ahead and asked the factory for the pricing options already,  so I have some number for you. **_**These are very, very rough ball-park estimates. Certainly, any final costs for the assemblies will depend upon final configuration, size and material of substrate (pcb or ceramic), circuit and connector components, etc. The tube prices are also just for our standard PMT specifications and do not take into account any selection criteria that you may impose on the final product. But just for the purposes of cost estimations, these should all be good. Please note that there is not much difference in pricing from 12k to 22k, so at this time, we are only presenting one price.**_**R7600U-00-64 roughly $600****Simple Dynode assembly roughly $175****Above assembly + ASIC installed roughly $225 (please note, Fermi would provide the ASIC itself)****If you have any questions, please let me know.****Best regards,****Don**

**E-MAIL FROM HAMAMATSU**

## In the case of 12k, we could deliver the entire quantity within 2 years, and for 22k tubes, we could deliver them all within 3.5 years (42 months). 

**In the case of 12k, we could deliver the entire quantity within 2 years, and for 22k tubes, we could deliver them all within 3.5 years (42 months). **

**E-Mail from Don Lowell – Dated 8.April.2003**

## Total cost at $600/PMT ($9.4/channel) will be $7.3M($13.5M). 

- Number of planes in the off-axis detector is 725(1336).
- Each plane will need 16 M64 PMT.
- Total M64 PMT needed ~ 11,600(21,376).
- Spare needed ~ 5%.
- Total PMT needed ~ 12,180(22,445).
**Total cost at $600/PMT ($9.4/channel) will be $7.3M($13.5M).**** **

## PMT BASE, MOUNTING, ROUTING EXPENSE 

- Cost per base ~ $75 (Alfons Webber). Hopefully this may go down.
-  Total cost for base ~ $910K($1.68M).
- Mounting Cost for MINOS $200/PMT.
- Total mounting cost - 12,180•$200/1.3 = $1.9M.
- Total mounting cost -  22,400 •$200/1.3 = $3.5M.
- Routing (MUX) box cost $400 PMT for MINOS.  For Off-Axis take it at a rate of  $250/PMT (in discussion with Doug Michael).
- Total routing cost ~ 12,180•$250 = $3.05M.
- Total routing cost ~ 22,400•$250 = $5.6M.

**Total Cost for PMT Base + Mounting + Routing = $5.9M ($10.8M).**

## ELECTRONICS COST 

**Cost estimate based on Gary Drake and Charlie Nelson’s talk at SLAC Off-Axis Detector Workshop (Jan 24-26, 2003). Copy of slides available at:**
**www.hep.anl.gov/drake/numi_off_axis/030124_presentation.pdf**
**General idea is to use - MINOS FE card with Viking chip replaced by custom build ASIC. Expect reduced electronics & silicon chip cost. Cost estimate done in consultation with Gary Drake. The cost estimate has been discussed with Charlie Nelson and he has vetted it. Gary has also seen/approves this estimate.**

## ELECTRONICS COST

- Number of channels  = 725(1336)•4•256•1.05= 780K(1437K).

| ITEM | Unit Cost | Number Needed | Subtotal ($100K) |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 64-Ch ASICs | $30 | 12188(22446) | $365($673) |
| FE Boards | $800 | 3045(5613) | $2436($4490) |
| FE Enclosures | $500 | 150(280) | $75($140) |
| FE Power & Cables | $500 | 150(280) | $75($140) |
| Data Collector | $3000 | 255(465) | $765($1395) |
| VME Crates, Power, & Processors | $5000 | 18(32) | $90($160) |
| Trigger Processor | $20,000 | 1(1) | $20 |
| Cables Misc. | $100 | 3000(5000) | $300($500) |
| TOTAL | $5.30/Ch | 780K
(1437K) | $4.126M
($7.518M) |

## QUOTE FROM CAEN FOR THE HV SYSTEM 

- CAEN SY1527 – universal HV system with build in color display and Ethernet controller, mainframe full size version with 16 slots, 750W.
- CAEN A1735 – 12 channel HV-module for SY1527/SY2527, 1 slot wide 1.5kV/7mA, SHV connectors. 14 PMTs at the same HV.
- CAEN A1932 – 48 channel HV-distributor module with internal primary high voltage channel for SY1527/SY2527, 2 slot wide, 3kV/0.5mA, multi-pin connector. Individual control of PMT HV
- Delivery FOB Springfield, OH, Add packing/shipping.
- Guarantee – 1 year parts and labor.
- Price quote varies for different amount to accommodate either 12K or 22K PMTs.

## COST FOR THE HV SYSTEM

| Combination of HV system + HV module | For 12K PMTs | For 22K PMTs |
| --- | --- | --- |
| CAEN SY1527 + CAEN A1732 | $292K | $468K |
| CAEN SY1527 + CAEN A1932 | $1.73M | $3.07M |

- Cost of SHV connectors/multi-pin connectors, cables etc has to be accounted for.
- I will use $2M and $4M as maximum cost for the whole things for 2/3rd and 1/3rd X0 system.

## ALL WEATHER BUILDING

- The building should be at least 27-30m wide, 30-33m high, and 220m long/deep.
- It could be also partially excavated pit and partially above ground as being proposed for the RPC detector, or could be completely above the ground.
- The proposed RPC detector will be 4 container wide (24m), 10 container high (24m), and 50 container deep (110m). Each container is 6m wide, 2.4m high, and 2.2m deep. The building proposed is 27m wide, 39m high and 127m deep.
- Proposed solid scintillator detector housing of  30m•30m•220m size will be ~1.1 times larger in volume compared to RPC housing.
- Based on John Cooper’s estimate for RPC detector housing of $21.8M this will be about ~$27M, including $3M for a crane.

## The quoted price is ~$17.50/piece (23.April.03) for a  1”X49”X97” size board weighing about 124 lbs piece, or ~14.1 cent/lbs. 

- Particle boards come in various sizes, with varying density, and thickness. One will need to optimize the size for proper structure. The choice could be limited by rail road car size for particle board to be delivered tentatively in Virginia, MN.
- The usual industry density is 0.69-0.72 gm/cm3. There are not much choices in thickness beyond 1”.
- The number of 1”X49”X97” pieces needed for the structure and to account for passive material weight with 5% wastage factor is about ~880K(810K) pieces for 2/3rd(1/3rd) X0.
**The quoted price is ~$17.50/piece (23.April.03) for a  1”X49”X97” size board weighing about 124 lbs piece, or ~14.1 cent/lbs. **

##           OTHER COSTS

**Structural cost to mount the detector:**
**It is my understanding that it will cost at least $10M to mount the structure. It is a pure guess but this is the number I will include in my estimate. **
**I might have missed some small details here and their, but those will be similar to all other detectors and hopefully will not be too much.**

## SUMMARY OF ESTIMATED COST IN MILLIONS OF US DOLLAR FOR A 50 KTON SS DETECTOR

| COMPONENT NAME | 2/3 X0 | 1/3 X0 |
| --- | --- | --- |
| Setup Cost for Scintillator factory | $0.3 | $0.3 |
| R&D with 10.5m Scintillator | $0.4 | $0.4 |
| Scintillator Extrusion Cost | $32.0 | $59.0 |
| Scintillator Components | $8.1 | $14.9 |
| Scintillator Module Assembly | $9.5 | $17.5 |
| Scintillator Factory Setup  | $2.0  (4 Factory) | $3.0 (6 Factory) |
| WLS + CLEAR Fiber  | $14.5 | $20.8 |
| M64 PMT | $7.3 | $13.5 |
| Base+Mounting+Routing | $5.9 | $10.8 |
| Readout Electronics | $4.2 | $7.5 |
| HV + DAQ System ($2M) | $4.0  | $6.0 |
| Particle Board  | $15.4  | $14.2  |
| Mounting Structure | 10.0 ????? | 10.0 ????? |
| All weather building Cost | 27.0 | 27.0 |
| GRAND TOTAL | $140.6 | $204.9 |

## An Off-Axis Neutrino Detector is a must for the survival and growth of the neutrino program in USA, in post MINOS age. 

**An Off-Axis Neutrino Detector is a must for the survival and growth of the neutrino program in USA, in post MINOS age. **
**HEP Facilities Committee (P5+seven) has suggested a 50Kton detector for this purpose.**
**A 50 Kton MINOS like solid scintillator detector, properly mounted and housed in an all weather building could be built with expertise gained during MINOS construction, for a cost of approximately $140M or $205M respectively, for a 2/3****rd**** or a 1/3****rd**** X0 per plane tracking/calorimetry.**