ORAL HISTORY 1988

BATHHOUSE WORK

ERNEST LEMON INTERVIEW

TRANSCRIBED BY GENE WOOD,PARK VOLUNTEER,MARCH 18,1997

I\-\--STANDS FOR PERSON DOING THE INTERVIEW

EL\--STANDS FOR ERNEST LEMON TALKING

NAMES OF PLACES ARE SPELLED AS HEARD,BUT NOT NECESSARILY CORRECT

WORDS NOT CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD ARE IN BRACKETS \[\]

TAPES ARE IDENTIFIED BY WRITING ON ACTUAL TAPE.

TAPE MARKED ERNEST LEMON IS SIDE \"B\"

I\--This is May 5th.,1988,about 3:10 in the afternoon in the Buckstaff

Bathhouse.Go ahead and state your name and tell me how you got started

working in the bathhouses.

EL-My name is Ernest Lemon.I worked in the bathhouse in Hot Springs for

35 years.I started at a small one,it name was the \[Al Hammer\]Bathhouse
in

Quachita,and I moved up to th\' Lamar,in,I guess around 67,and came to
the

Buckstaff in,ah,86,March 13. An\'I\'ve been in there ever since.

I\--What did you start out as at the Al Hammer?

EL-Well,I started out in the laundry.I worked the laundry for about 6
months,

and I moved up to the pack room.An\'durin\'time we would bath an\'pack
over

2-300 people a day. An\',ah,I finally worked up to be a bath attendant,

an\' back then you just couldn\'t go in and be a bath attendant,you had
to

work under somebody with experience first,you know,least 6 months to a

year.An\' they would,ah,work ya\' into the,to the bah attendant.I
started

bathin\' March 13 in 53. An\' I\'ve been bathin\' ever since.Ah,I enjoy
my

work \[purty\] good,I mean,you know,if you like to meet people,you enjoy

your work more,in this type of business. So,ah,if you don\'t like to
meet

people,jus\',I wouldn\'t even,you know,advise anyone to start in
it.Cause

it\'s,ah,most it\'s meeting people and enjoyin\' your works. You
gotta\'enjoy

your work,too.Ah,but mostly meetin\' people,you know,different people
from

all walks of life,all,from all over the world.I bathed people,I guess

jus\' about,er,attending \'em,you know,where,I bathed Russians,I bathed

Japanese,Korean,Tiawan,Africans,you jus\' gotta know how to meet people,

you know,in this type o\' business.So I wouldn\'t advise\[anyone to
think\]

about it,you know,bad,\[unless they jus\' like to meet people an\' enjoy

talkin\',jus\' talkin\'to \'em,you know.

I\--Did you ever meet any famous people in the bath?

EL-Oh Ya\',I bathed,ah,Jim Nabors,ah,an\'now,I think the year of
86,an,ah\'let\'s

see,I bathed quite a few athletes,you know,come down,take the bath.

I\--Was that recent years or further back?

EL-Ah,well,this is in 86 an\'87. I think one time,I bathed quite a few
foot-

ball players an\'basketball players in that year.Ah,it was,ah,\[purty\]
good

experience,you know,you meet this type of people.

I\--From what,what kind of teams,which teams,state or?

EL-No,they was,ah,from the pros,they was ones from the Lakers,an\'ah
Boston,

I bathed a couple out o\' Boston team.An\'right now they look like they

doin\'\[purty\] good,both of \'em.

I\--Were they here just for the bathes or here for other things?

EL-I think they was here for other things an\'find out about the
bathes,thru,

you know,conversation,an\'come in an\' they really enjoy\'d
it,\[an\'they said,

you know,after we get this\],down this way again,they\'ll come in an\'
take

the bathes cause theys\'so much,you know,that\'s beneficial to \'em,you
know,

it relax em\', an\' they says they hadn\'t relaxed like this in so long
an\'it

really was a nice experience meetin\' those people.They,you know,seem
like

they would be different,but they all the same when they get to
talkin\',you

know.So that makes it \[different\]. Ah\',I think,ah,that all the people
that,

that,you know,famous people,I think Jim Nabors was \'bout the nicest.He
was

real nice,he\'d sign autograph for everyone in the bathhouse that was
there,

an\'couldn\'t get him to sing though,but he used ta\'jus,you know,he\'d
talk

to everyone,an\'he\'d invite us down to the Vapor Suite.Uh
huh.So,ah,he\'s

real nice to meet an\' talk to.

I\--Is there a part of the job you don\'t like?

EL-Well,ah\...\...Getting up early. You have to be in at least a quarter
to 7,

but we generally get here 15 after 6,but we have plenty time to get
every-

thing ready for customers,you know. An\' I think it\'s best to be that
way,

get a little early an\'you have time to get everybody an\' talk to some
of

the people thats here all,you know,cause lot o\'customers like to get in

early an\' get their bath an\' they are comin\'in an\'set around an\'
read the

paper,an\'you get to talk a little bit with your customers more than
when

you\'re workin\'because if you get busy you don\'t have that much time
to,

you know,hold a long conversation like some of \'em like to do.But,if
you

get here early enough,you have plenty time to kinda shoot the breeze

with \'em,you know.An\' they enjoy it,too,you know,you\'d like to take
up

a little more time with \'em than you would when you workin\',because
lotta\'

mornings you so busy,you jus\',you know,you have ta\'keep moving.An
ah\'\.....

I\--Is there anything you have to do to get ready to start in the
mornings?

EL-Well,we,ah.we come in an\'we wash our tubs again,and rinse
\'em,\[an\'do it

with two of \'em\],an\'then by the time you do all this an\'get your
soap

up,we use,ah,coconut oil soap like we did,back a\',I guess 76 years ago,

because I worked with a fella name o\' Herman Brown an ah\'he had been

bathin\' 30 years fore I went to work at this place,at the Al Hammer,an
um\'

he said he had been usin\' that same type o\' soap that we use now,that
he

did then. So,ah,we have to heat that a little bit,we don\'t want to put

nothin\' cold on nobody lessen\'it\'s a cold pack,you know,\[unless you
getin\'

to hot\] so generally we warm our soap up,we have it in
containers,plastic

containers,we set it in the hot water for it\'d warm up some,an\' that
way

it won\'t be cold to his body,you know,after gettin\' out o\' the hot
water.

I\--Do you have to,have some person that cleans the floors an\'th\'walls
an\'all,

or do y\'all have to do that?

EL-We do that.Ah,we do that on a daily basis,you know,an ah\' we keep
our

areas clean where we work,see,\[theys\'3 people is bathin\'\] in the

Buckstaff here an\' they clean a certain area,an we jus\' switch back &

forth on the walk and aisles,you know,we keep our own everything,we got

our own private little world,you know,\[here\] Bobby Howell,he works on
the

front end,I works on the second,an\' Ricky works on the third side \[o\'
the

weeks\],an he keeps his,everybody wants to keep his,you know,his
personal

workin\'area clean,you know,so thats way we generally works that.

I\--How many tubs do you have at a time?

EL-I have 4 tubs an\' a swing tub. The swing tub we use as a,is what we
call

the big man tub,this tub is made outa\'\[alu\],ah,stainless steel.An\'
we use it as a swing tub.Anybody gets a big man,we use,but generally if
we get

busy,when bathes tend to get busy,we borrow each others tubs,you know,

so we don\'t have no problem with that.But ah,that\'s the way it should
be,

everybody works together real good in the Buckstaff,\[rather than in,you

know,some I\'ve worked\]. But ah,I think,um,Buckstaff \[not to bad\],you
know,

with the personnel they have now. Ah,they seem to enjoy their work,an\'.

I\--Do you do the packs now,too?

EL-We,ah,do the packin\',I do the bathin\'an\'ah,we give the sitz an\'
the steam.

Each attendant takes care o\'his own personal people,you
know,\[unclear\].

I\--\[Which has it\'s packs attendants\]?

EL-Lets see.Well,in 86,at the Lamar,we had,ah,oh,each bath attendant had
his

own pack man.An\'ah,they would take jus\' your individual people.When I
came

EL-over here in March 13,I believe it was Mar,no March the 5th.in
85,86,March

yah,three months after they closed th\' Lamar an\' I came over 3 months
after

it,an\' they didn\'t have,they don\'t th\' pack man here,but I had
packed

before so it wasn\'t no problem,you know. Well,I did,I guess,everything

\[they\]could be done in the bathhouses,like I said,I had worked the
laundry

at ah,the,at the Al Hammer an\'I moved over into the tubs,into the pack

role,an\' then to the tubs.You had to work 6 months to,in one
part,\[then

work\] before you could,you know,move up \'cause that way give you a
little

time to learn \[the other trade\] like bathin\',you know,but ah,when I
started

back in \[um\],they had a school in the Park Service
office,upstairs,an\'you

had to go for 30 days an\' learn few things,you know,\'bout how to take
care

your people an\'different,ah,things,you know,so I went an\' passed
that,so,

I was already been packin\'so I knew most everything they was,an\'how to
get,

take care your people,you know,an ah,I don\'t know \[is jus\'they
shoulda\]

shouldn\'t stopped that school because you learn purty good,you
know,things

you should know in the bathhouses that they don\'t teach anymore,you
know,

lessen they work for an older guy,you know,some guy that been in the
bath-

house business for a long time,because,well you\'ve learned as you go to

ah,I could learn somethin\'\[ev\], you know every day,an\'is jus like I
say

I been doin\' it long time,but you can learn somethin\'in the bathhouse

everyday,\[cause\] everyday I learn somethin\'new,you
know,\'bout,but.An\'

another thing,I think,ah,about the bathhouse business is,I think it\'d

get better if,ah,if they could keep good help,you know,you gotta have

good help on any type o\' work or business that you in,to keep your

business up,really.

I\--\[Is it harder to get a lot of help today,er?\]

EL-Well,is,it,in the bathhouse business it would be,ah,well you\'d to
almost

train a,a new man,you know. It\'s like I say,when I first started,I
couldn\'t

go right from the laundry to the tub without havin\' to work with the
pack

room,for about 6 months to a year b\'fo\' I could get on the tubs,you
know,if

they,if they had openin\',back then you didn\'t have the openin\'s cause
the,

you know,the old guys,they \[hadda they wouldn\'t,hey,they love their
job\],

they wouldn\'t move for anybody,you know,but one guy retired an\'I took
over,

you know,an ah,of his tub.It was ah,I liked it purty good but I knew a
lot

of people \'bout that time an\' I been in the business for over 5 years
an\'I

knew a lot of the people,you know,that was regulars,an\'ah,it made a

difference,you\'d,tho after you started,you know,having \'em every
year,it

seem jus\' like you looked for those people to be there,you know,an\'if
you

\[did,you were valuable an\'wonder about it\],an,ah, lot of \'em call ya
or

write ya an\'it was a purty nice expeience,you know,for a young guy,who,

\[worked at that time\],I\'m glad to hear from somebody,you know,you
know a

few years.It was really nice.

I\--You have any today that,that you\'ve been seeing for a lot o\'years?

EL-I have some people I bathed the first year I,\[chuckle\],that\'s a
long time.

I have a gentleman named Mr.Harper. He haven\'t missed a year since I
been

bathin\' in the last 35 years,he was here this year. An\'ah,I told him
he

didn\'t look a day older than the day I first,lets see,when I started
that

mornin\' an\' with th\'tubs,givin\' the bath,he was with a
Mr.Brown,an\'he

looked \[down and say,told this old bastard\] say I\'m go down and teach
this

young fella how to give a bath,an\'he been with me ever since,an\' year
after

year,35 years,thats a long time,and he still looks in good shape,you
know,

fo\'80,he\'s 83 years old.He haven\'t missed a year tho.

I\--How long did he stay?

EL-He stayed for 12 bathes,uh-hum. An\'some,ah,I got quite a few,I got

Mr.Brown,he been with me for 35 years,ah,an\'he\'s gettin\',you
know,he\'s

\'bout 90,but he come,he was here this year an\' he say \"I\'ll see ya
next

year\",for every year he\'d say the same thing.But it,it makes,you know,

nice when you see him.I think it\'s kinda\' wonderful,you know,to meet
people

that a\',an\'be around that long,an\'jus\' year after year,is
somethin\'else,

you know,an\' make you feel purty good \'bout yourself,anyway.

I\--How much did you make when you started \[workin\'\]?

EL-We didn\'t make very much in ah,ah,I think most back at that time,the
bathes

\[unclear\] really depended on the tip,I mean,people were more liberal
with

their money back in those years,early 50\'s. Ah,we made around .17 cents

a man,I believe it was,\[or some didn\'t made much\].Hey,when you do
like,ah,

well,17 dollars a day,you know,17 dollars,we do over 300 men,daily,you

made a little money,but you mostly depended on your tips \[in that
area\]

because,ah,I know lot o\' days I went home,you know,more in tips than I

woud make in salary,but now,you know,things are little different,people

don\'t have the money like they,so it\'s a little different now,really.

An\'I,I know,ah,lot o\'peoples in business back then,you know,had
business,

they would bring ya\' some o\' their products,you know,different
things,you

know,electric blankets,an\'all,jus\'most anything,you never did have to
buy

very much,really,because you had somebody in business that would bring
ya\'

an\' they even send you,you know,to the mail. An\'ah,Christmas
time,oh,lot o\'

time you couldn\'t even carry the stuff home,people bring ya\',you know,

so that made it,it made it lot better an\' made it nice cause you
didn\'t

make no lot o\' money back then,really.Uh,Uh,no.But we survived.

I\--You thinks it\'s better now \[remainder of question unclear\]?

EL-Well,I think,ah,salary wise it\'s better,because you make,you
know,lot more

money than you did if,if ah\'we jus did,say,thirty people a day for one
bath

attendant,well he can come out,average out,purty well nice salary,but
ah\'

30 people back then,you couldn\'t survive,you know,but ah,I think,ah,I
don\'t

EL-know,pack man,he was gettin\'somethin\' like .07 cents a man,\[theys
not very

much\] but things a lot cheaper,too,then,an\'dollar would go a long
way,an\'if

you was careful.you could make it,you know.

I\--Do you have very many people come in today with doctors\' orders?

EL-Not as many as we used to,that\'s one thing I \[want kinda
ask\]because,another

thing,ah,ah no,old bath attendants back when I started,they would ask a
man

if he had heart condition o\'high blood pressure.Well,that\'s way I do,

started,you know,an\'I had,I do it now.But I know that most young bath

attendants,they don\'t do this,an\'I \[taught \'em they should be
asked\]because,

ah,if a man say,\"ya,well,I had a heart attack 3 months ago\"\],well,I
know not

to make his water not 100 degrees,at 98 degrees is hot enough,thats\'
jus\',

\[you know\],but I,\[theys\] they was doin\'this back long time,you
know,an\'you

had to \[partly learn\] from the old attendants,you know,theys\'
purty,they was,

you know,purty smart people in,in their own way,you know,because they
knew

how to take care o\' man if he did get a little,little over-heated or

somethin\' like that,but,an\' that\'s another thing \'bout that
school,they

taught a lot o\' that Red Cross \[stuff\] at the school there,an\'it
helped

along alot,you know,because we do have people that come in that,ah,have
a

tendancy to heat up quick \[an\'those\],you know,an\' you gotta\' know
exactly

what to do to keep \'em,you know,really \[words inaudible\],faintin\'on
ya,you

know. I had a few faint on me,an\'ah,it don\'t take long if you know
what to

do,you know,to get him back on his feet,an\' have him feelin\' good,you
know,

but,you learned a lot t\'all this as you go too,you know,an\'you learn
to look

at a man an\'you can almost tell that he\'s not able to take a 100
degree

water,you know,which they said 98 to 100 degrees is all they should
take.

Lotta\' times I wouldn\'t make it that hot,but,you know,because I
can,you

know, the experience you have bein\'around people,you look at \'em
an\'tell

right away that \[words inaudible\],you know. Had a man the other day
that

come in,he jus\',I jus\' looked at him an\' I says,\"How long you been
outta\'

the hospital\"? He says\"How did you know I\'ve been in the hospital\"?
I

mean,after years an\' years,\[you know\]\[an\'he says \"Well,I jus got 3
weeks

ago\". An\'ah, you learn to look at a man when you introduce yourself to

\'im as your bath attendant,an\' right away,you know,your brain,you
know,

works a little bit,then you say,I better make this guy\' water about 98

degrees,you know,\[he don\'t have to tell ya\'\],you know, you look at a
man

an\' tell,after so long,you jus\'can\'t walk in off the street,then go

to doin\' nothin\' like that \'cause I know I couldn\'t. It\'s almost 9
years

for I could even,you know,an\'ah,you gen\'ly kin,ah,get by purty good
with

a man that,you know, his rep\' you learn an\'its,its gets
easier,everything,

your job an\'everything,you know,cause ah,you know,\[hav\'n people
fallen out

over here an\' water over there\] somethin\' like that,but ah,jus\' like
I

said,jus\'take experience,you know,you have to be around him,cause
it,the

water heat some people up lot faster than it do others.I don\'t if your

blood pressure different or maybe a little higher or little lower,\[or

EL-\[some way\],but that\'s my experience,eh\',you learn to look at \'em
an\'use

your own judgement,some,you know.An\' you get a man that says,\"Well,the

waters not hot enough,can I get it jus\' a little hotter\".An\'you got
it up

to a hundr\'d degrees,you have to say \"No,you can\'t have it no
hotter\",I said

\"try this at this tempt\'ure,if you\'re not satisfied\".But they
generally wind up hotter than they need to be anyway,see.Say that\'s
what I tell these

young fellas,I say if a man,I don\'t care what he offer,you don\'t make
his

water any hotter,you know.Let him take his first one at 100 degrees and
see,

an\' he\'ll be hot enough when he get thru,you give him the steam,the
sitz,an\'

your hot pack,an\' then you wrap him in th\',in th\' sheets like we
do,see,we

be hot enough,you don\'t have to worry \'bout it,uh-uh. Most guys,you
know,

an\' if you have a man fall out,or faint on ya,not fall out,faint,you
should

try t\'get him back to normal guick as possible,that\'s my
experience,I,you

know,I wouldn\'t do that\[words inudible\],we used to have men dat\'come
in an\'

drink,you know,back in the early 50\'s,be drinking a lot an\' been up
all

night,an\' they pass out on ya\'in nude,the best thing is to get him
back

with cold towels as quick as possible,that\'s the best way,don\'t leave
him

out,to,you know,let him lay around to long,you know,get him back to his,

an\'get him a cool shower,let him go to the coolin\' room,\[that\'s the
bes\'\].

That\'s my experience,I had quite a few back in them early 50\'s,because

you know,town was open an\' ev\'body was havin\'a good time,drinkin\'a
lot,

you know,an\' then they come in an\'have a bath,but they really didn\'t
realize

that ah,this water was as powerful as it is,is\' somethin\',I tell
you.Ah,

I thought about it when I first ordered it,ah,it,well,les\'see what it
is

you know,an\' I found out,its really somethin\' to,that it really,uh
huh.

I\--How would you say this business changed over the years?

EL-Well,you know it\'s,there\'s been a lot o\'changes.When I first
started,jus

like the heat exchangers they put in. That was a big change because we
used

to use the resevoir on the hill,you know,an\' the business,really is
should

be a lot more people takin\' the bathes than it is now.I don\'t know if
its

\[appetites\] or bathes,or what they are,but lot o\'people jus don\'t
under-

stand,that\'s all,you know,you\'d have,you should have,ah,somebody,you
know,

ta\' tell \'em that,ah,try one,you know, tha\'s the best way,you,you
can\'t go

wrong by tryin\' one,you know,then see what it\'s all
about,tha\'s,tha\'s

what I think is,is really hurtin\' the business,jus\'that people don\'t,

aint curious enough to try one,then see what it\'s like.A lot of people

tha\'s tried it now,I don\'t know,if it\'s appetites helpin\' us that
way,too,

it\'d be better when they have a little more appetite for the
bathhouses,

cause we used to do one appetite,you know,in the business but I think
all

business need some type o\'appetizer.

I\--\[Seeing\] Know when all these bathhouses were built,they had so
many more

tubs for all \[the men side and not the ladies\],are there still a whole

lot more men that come,er,do you think its less men that come nowadays?

EL-Nah,I thinks\' it more ladies that take the bathes than do the
men,because

ladies still th\',you know,theys purty curious,they \[even wanta try

somethin\',you know,so ah,an \'the men,well they gen\'lly follow their
wife,

but lotta\' mens\',you know,don\'t have wives,but theys\'lot of \'em
will try

it anyway,but most men,ahhhh,I bathe \[do why\],who my wife told me I
had

to try this,you know.That was,that\'s it right there,an\'ah,maybe if you
got

th\' single man to come in more often then,you know,like the married men

because they don\'t \[follow\] their wives,you know,I\'m goin\'to try it
too

\[the hell\] my wives take it,you know,its\'jus alright,you know,so
thats\'

the difference.I believe if they get the single an\' the younger college

age people t\' try it,I believe they would benefit a lot from it,because

it is a different experience than most I\'ve seen,ah,I taken bathes when

I was in Japan,an\' it\'s not near nothin\'like is here,you know,the
waters

e\'en,not e\'en \[can\'t\] compare.The water here,you,is so much
different

than that water in Japan that they say was good for ya\',you know,I
couldn\'t

then maybe I didn\'t try it enough,I mean here I know what they got,you

know,theys\' lot better,an that that I had over there,because I didn\'t
get

no results out o\' it,this here ya\'do,you know,anybody try one,you
know,they

can tell right away,I\'m so relaxed I can\'t get up,you know,well,so
what

you gonna\' do.

I\--Well,thanks for talking with me.

EL-Well,I\'m glad to do this,because if \[showed\] this as
advertisement,it

might help.