**Joanne Bland:** Uhm.. that you can't bring up education without sayin'
something about the in- inadequacies in school, and doin' something,
about it. The- the first real problem is that you can't- take those kids
out of private school so they can know each other, because we gonna have
the same things. We're fightin' now cuz you don't know me. You know? You
gotta have that kind of dialogue. And he'd say, "Well I don't wanna take
my child out of private school." But maybe we'll open the private up-
schools up, to everybody. Maybe you might want to send your child to
private school and this is a good school, I like this school, my child
likes this school. You might want to check it out and see if you want to
send your child here. Right now uhm.. there is no way to- to cross those
bridges, and that's what we need to do- build bridges where we can meet
half way and get these things out of the way.

Q: We have these kids coming your way and I'm really looking forward to
it. We're hoping that they're going to be agents of change, they are
going to be able to accomplish something. How will you challenge them?
How would you provoke some kind of action?

**Joanne Bland:** That's a- a good question. I'm usually scare it out of
'em but \<laughs\>. Uhm.. that's hard to say. Uhm.. Selma I've seen
thousands- tens of thousands of children in the last 11, 12 years.
Right? And I get these letters back. I got stacks of letters uhm.. on
what inspired each one. "You inspired me to do this" and "you inspired
me to change." Uhm- uhm.. "You inspired me to go out and do this and-
and that I'll never be the same." But almost every letter has somethin'
different in it. So I don't- I don't know. I do \<sniffs\> pretty much
the same to it with all children. They could be orange and I get- do the
same to 'em. I do challenge them uhm.. on how- what are they gonna do
uhm..- "what are you gonna do now? We are this far. Uh.. we've gotten
you this far. Where do you take it from here?" And I don't know whether
my spiel does it but I- I get- I had 10 letters today and- and trust me,
I read every one \<laughs\>. Uhm.. 10 letters today from a tour that
came uh.. last week. And uhm.. we do a portion where we pick up a rock.
And uhm.. it's a rock from the original cement where uhm.. we assembled
on Bloody Sunday. It's a\-- uh.. the cement's all old and broken now and
they pick up this rock. And the\-- when they first pick it up, they
think I'm crazy, you know- uhm.. \<laughs\> "Why's she makin' me pick up
this nasty rock?" And then I'd say, "Is it heavy?" "No"- you know,
children can get so nasty. And then I go around and look at it and I'll
say, "Oh, you know that looks just like the rock John Lewis stood on
before he took his- right through there to that bridge to be beaten by
those law enforcement officers. I betcha that's John's ro- ro- rock."
And I go through the crowd and point out one or two more and I call some
names that may- "Hey, you might be holdin' the one I was standin' on.
That looks just like that rock my big toe was on"- you know- "before we
left." And.. we talk about how we saved the cement- uh.. they wanted to
take it up and put new cement down. And uhm.. then we ta- uh.. I tell
them, I say, "Now you can keep that rock or you could throw that rock
away." Already in the crowd, when uh.. they find out you may have
somebody's rock, that is the original cement, you'll see people trying
to ease it in their pocket without me seeing it. But I tell them, "If
you take that rock back, I want you to put it where you can see it every
day. Every day. So when you see injustice, of any kind, toward anyone,
and you feel you can't do anything, I want you to pick up that rock and
put it in your hand and take from it the strength that ordinary people,
just like yourself, stood on these rocks, and we may change- that not
only affected Selma but this entire nation- and then get up off your
butt and do something." Right? You'll see- nobody throws a rock away-
nobody. They take that rock. I- uhm.. one lady sent me a picture of her
rock. She had it professionally mounted and stuff. I'm like goin'-
\<laughs\> and it's just a rock from our old cement and I never thought
when I uh.. started doin' it that uh.. it would have the effect that it
has. There's some talk about uhm.. me telling them about Bloody Sunday-
or the personal stories of uhm..- like the one in Gaston's \[ph?\],
uhm.. or the one with the shoes- I don't wanna talk about that crap. And
uhm.. they write back about those things. So I don't ever know what it
is they's gonna tell me. It may be the rock with them. It may be\-- but
uhm.. what you do is interview their \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_- and I'm sure
they'll tell ya..- us.

Q: That's actually what we're trying to do is to interview them and have
them interview themselves, so that we can kind of see that change
through this experience. I'm sure yours would be an immeasurable impact.
I'm really looking forward to having you.

**Joanne Bland:** Oh you're too kind.

Q: Now what's going to be going around in your head when you cross that
bridge on Sunday, because I'm going to be looking?

**Joanne Bland:** Who is we? \<laughs\>

Q: We're all going to be crossing.

**Joanne Bland:** You mean that in the royal sense of- you mean us.

Q: All of you.

**Joanne Bland:** Me too?

Q: What's going to go through your head? How are you going to feel? Are
you going to go across...?

**Joanne Bland:** I haven't been across that bridge\-- uhm.. this is our
11^th^ Jubilee, and I haven't been across that bridge since the first
one. Uhm.. one thing, for the- say the first five years the museum was
open, I was crossin' it every day with a group. Right? And uhm.. the
next time- the very next year uhm.. that they went across, for the
Jubilee, I was so busy that I couldn't get it and they were gone across
the bridge by the time I got everything that needed to be on the other
side of the bridge at the time. So usually my job\-- and Ophelia's with
me, because they have a ceremony at the bottom of the bridge then. Us-
usually\-- and Ophelia's with it. But I tell you about when I used to
cross it, what I felt. Uhm.. for awhile I couldn't do it- uh.. Sam had
to lead my groups across there. After I'd do the tour, he would lead
them. I tried, and the closer the\-- you know the bridge goes up- goes
up- and the more I walked, with each step, the more I thought about
Bloody Sunday, that they were gonna be waiting for me. And I'd say, "Oh
this is nonsense. This is 30-some odd years later and I'm still standin'
here lookin' stupid." And - but my feet did not connect with the ground.

Q: Just a second. I'm sorry.

**Joanne Bland:** That bridge is not ugly.

Q: Well, no, ugly as it is, people had to suffer there. That's what....

**Joanne Bland:** That's what was ugly- not the bridge.

Q: Exactly. I'd like to know a little about your emotions when you think
about the bridge.

**Joanne Bland:** You\-- first I don't feel like I'm at home until I see
it. I can go anywhere in the- in the world. If uhm.. I don't come over
the bridge, I don't feel like I'm at home. And we have a bypass now and
I live near the bypass and people like to take me down the bypass, to
get home, and I don't like that. I want to go over the bridge and uhm..
look downtown and feel like I'm home. Every time I see- get to that
light out across the river, I think about those times. Whether it's
because of my position, my job now, or- or what. I don't know. Uh.. I
felt that way before uhm.. even comin' back home. Every time I passed
over that ground, I felt like it was hallowed ground because I know- I
saw the blood. I could uhm..- I heard the pain. I saw those men just
beating people. And just by the grace of God, I didn't get beat. That
uhm..\-- and every time I see a State Trooper crossin' that bridge, it's
anticipying \[ph?\]- whether that trooper looks like me or whether he's
white- he's still a Alabama State Trooper who participated in this
stuff. It just goes back and it becomes very vivid. And when I would try
to cross the bridge, I couldn't. I couldn't even watch the footage on
the Eyes of the Prize because uh.. it has the screams, it shows the
violence. And uhm.. there's one uhm.. scene in Eyes on the Prize where
they surrounded us at the foot of that bridge. Uhm.. people are tryin'
to get out and all you see are the Billy clubs goin' up and down, up and
down, beating people. And- who were peaceful and unarmed. I- I- I feel
all that stuff and it comes back. I- I just couldn't do it. It took me
about five years to really go across that bridge. And uhm.. then I\--
uh.. just one day, Sam wasn't there and I took these people over the
bridge and.. I did it. And no policemen were there. There was no- no
horses. If I had seen a State Trooper's car and it was brand new, it
would've still been that same picture. None of that happened. I went
over the bridge, I survived, nobody beat me- I did it. So I started
doin' it again. But since then I stopped again. It's just too tirin'. It
takes too much out of me now. \<laughs\> It does not have the same
effect. It takes too much out of me when I do the tours. It's uhm..-
it's like acting. Uh.. I guess uhm.. I'm on for that period of time and
the moment that I'm done, I'm exhausted and uhm.. I need to rest. So I
see why they pay actors a lot of money- hint, hint, Board of Directors-
uhm.. to do the things they do. I always wonder about these exorbitant
salaries but I understand now, because I am physically exhausted. Uhm..
I on- I- I run on uhm.. pure adrenaline when there's bus after bus, but
the moment that last bus leave- the moment they get to that last room,
I'm done. I can't..- I can't do anything else. So I probably won't be
goin' across that bridge with you Sunday. But I'm sure enough people'll
be there who participated- that will walk across that with you, and that
those children will be walkin' in the footsteps of history makers and
with history makers. And all our children can't say that.

Q: Well I'm going to be thinking of you. Thank you very much.

**Joanne Bland:** You're quite welcome.

Q: You were very patient with us and I know that's not your strong suit.

**Joanne Bland:** It sure isn't.

Q: You were very kind.

\<CREW talk\>

\#### End of CD 12B \####