**There are two interviews on this CD. The paperwork only gave one name.
We used \"A1\" to denote the first set of answers and \"A2\" to denote
the second interview \-- Production Transcripts.**

Q: So now, just to get us going again, it's fairly noticeable that you
have on coveralls, overalls?

**A1:** Uh hum. Oh yeah.

Q: When we talked about it, you said this is the SNIC uniform.

**A1:** Uh huh. We-we identified our- those in SNIC identified with the
rural person, the rural farmer, the everyday-everyday man, the man that
had the guts and went and go ahead and moved. So what we did was we-we
identified with the person by wearing overalls, not just blue jeans with
overall, we identified with the farmer, the guy who was out there in the
field, the guy that picked the cotton, the guy that picked the corn, we
identified with them. And the blue shirt, the same thing, a worker's
shirt, a workingman's uh-uh-uh.. I would say, uniform- a working man's
garments that he would wear everyday. And I-I'm very proud to wear 'em.

Q: Back to Montgomery.

**A1:** Uh hum.

Q: I've seen a lot of footage from there and, of course, have heard Dr.
King's speech. You were there. Describe what it felt like, what you saw.
I think the weather had even cleared. I think you could see...

**A1:** ... a little ray of sunshine.

Q: Tell me about it.

**A1:** The speech he made electrified the crowd, based on how you used
the bible withinside the speech, about certain things that were going
on, and he felt should be change, we all felt should be change- the only
thing he did was he articulated it. It caused the crowd to get a sense
of elec-electricity, within the crowd itself, that just moved through
the whole crowd, it just like a shimmer of energy, this feeling,
everybody felt this energy with each other- not even- not even touch- I
believe that people touching it would be-be- it would been us to be
shot. The energy was just that high. And uh.. we all felt that what he
was saying would reach the country, would reach the people of Alabama,
where they be able to realize that there was an injustice being done,
not only to themselves, but to us also- mainly to us also, historically.
And that's what-what actually happened. Uh.. once the speech was ended,
and people was supposed to leave, the Police Department did not know how
to handle it. They were looking for some kind of disturbance \<coughs\>
-- no disturbance happened. The State Police were are all geared-up with
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ lingo, leap-leapin' up and down like a chicken, talkin'
'bout, 'go get 'em'. Any incidents- anyone-anyone spit on the sidewalk
or somethin' like that, he would try to figure out some way of how to
have 'em arrested. But nothing like that happened. There was nothing to
dismar or dismay or, I would say, discredit the march itself, period. It
was so respectful you had to have recognized that. And that's what
actually happened. So it was a march of respect.

Q: So the Park Service is creating these sites along what is now known
as the Selma to Montgomery Historic Trail.

**A1:** Uh hum. Clinton was very smart to do that, historically. Clinton
understood history, based on his being a southerner. Heritage-wise, ya
always hear about the white people talkin' about the-the civil rights
heritage, which is nothing but a heritage of slavery- they don't wanna
admit that- they leave the slavery out. But that's okay- we talk about
how we-we fought at Gettysburg, we fought at Shiloh, that's okay. But
they wanna keep the slave out that cooked the meals, did the work free,
under bondage, under the fact of fear, under the fact of being
brutalized, they did the work. If it hadn't been for black people, the
south would not be-been born, been- maybe wouldn't be here today. All
the houses been built around here were- the ma-majority of houses been
built were by free labor, black labor. Even in Washington, D.C., the
whole state capital was ma-made by a black man, and designed by a black
man, after a French guy told 'em to go to hell. \<sneezes\> But, this is
not being brought in, this is not being related to the white children
inside the- of the all-white classrooms, they have here, as private
schools. They do not want to recognize that. They wanna be able for hide
from it, but the truth is there- that they don't wanna bring out the
fact of what the truth is all about. The south was made by free labor
and black people are the one that did-did the labor, and did the work,
for those that had them in bondage. And that's what-what came out of the
whole thing. When the white woman, Viola was killed, when they killed
her, that shocked the south and they just, snap! Because they killed
their mother, they killed their sister, they killed their cousins, they
killed their aunts, based on the fact that she's- a white woman was
killed. Killing a black woman, nothin' to worry about that- th-that's
happening every day. But to kill a white woman- Miss Ann- Miss Ann was
taken down for throwing\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_- and she was
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_- just like she was doing-- you ain't nothing,
you don't do that, and they killed her. That was a serious mistake. When
they did that. Plus she was in-from the north, she's a north-Yankee.
When they did that, that's when those in Lowndes County realized how in
jeopardy- how much in jeopardy they really were. They were really
vulnerable. They killed a white woman. What they do to a black woman?
The same thing, even more.

Q: After that, a lot of people maybe thought there was nothing to worry
about. That's not true, is it?

**A1:** Uh-uh.

Q: It was a still a long road. Tell me about it.

**A1:** The number- the amount of resentment over the fact that America
is not willing to deal with the race question itself, not even raise it
as-as-as a form of discussion- is what's causing the biggest problem.
The resentment is there based on how we have been brutalized and treated
for years ago, and still being brutalized and treated today. Big
business controls this country. Big business is the one that controls
the whole apparatus of how this country works. Not the government, big
business, economics. Right now, because of globalization, a lot of
things are changing. Big business has to ad-address to that and
therefore move this company out to a foreign country, for the fact of
cheaper labor. We are the slaves no longer needed for the labor, and we
understand that. But then get into that labor force, we have to get a
education. We have to instill an education into our children. Hopefully
that because of the laws being pa-paved with the-passed by the Federal
government, they can get- they can get a better chance for a job, a-a
meaningful job for themselves and their families, later on in life. But
it doesn't work that way. Big business does not want to recognize
because of Africa as where did we came from. And how Africa is still
enslaved by them and there has come to be controlled. That comes out of
South Africa- when everybody was all goin' up against South Africa and
realized how the big business in-in the United States was supporting
South Africa and they were going to use the boycott against South
Africa, that changed this country. There was money. It was money- it was
nothin'-nothin' but money. You can therefore marry a white woman, today,
and be accepted, so long as you got the money. When you don't have the
money, you ain't got no honey. When you got the money, you got the
honey. \<laughs\> That's the truth, I mean, there-there ain't no
getting' around it. Yeah \<sneeze\> this country to me will allow a man
to be homeless, white or black, yellow or red, and starve to death- and
they accept it. Well yet and still, they talk about democracy and the
freedom of speech, and everything else about- around the constitution.
There's no-no more constitution works nowaday. It's the partriate that
works. And the patriate is doing one thing to oppress the same people
that do not have today. And that's me and you, where we fight each
other, constantly in friction with each other, where those which have
the money are sitting back, watching, smiling and say, "Let 'em fight."

Q: I love where you're going but the National Parks Service will
probably never put this is the film.

**A1:** \<laughs\>

Q: Paint me a picture of this area, Dallas County, Lowndes County.

**A1:** Okay.

Q: What is it like today? How have things changed and how have things
remained the same?

**A1:** Things have changed in the sense that jobs are opening to black
people, providing they in the service sector. But so far for them to be
the manager or also to be the person in the office, giving the
directions of where the company or-or the work of the company should go,
that's where it's changed at. That's where the lines are drawn at. Uh..
the killings that was-went on, you mentioned earlier. Sammy Young, Jimmy
Lee Jackson- if it hadn't been for Jimmy Lee Jackson standing up on the
men what try to beat his mother, to protect his mother and get shot by
that State policeman- not one person that has shot a black person in
this country, based on Civil Rights, has gone to jail and been sentenced
and stayed in jail- a few of them have- \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
because of the pressure on that uh.. that thing. But the other sheriffs,
the other deputies, that shot different people and shot 'em in the back,
haven't gone to jail- they used the cover of being a-a-a law enforcement
officer- they used that cover. Sammy Young- the students at Tuskegee got
so mad behind Sammy Young, it was no problem for them to get black paint
in the middle of the night, 3000 strong, and pour it on a black- on a
confederate statue. They were happy. They cheered like mad letting
everybody know how they felt about the south. The south should be very
thankful that black people remain non-violent. They should fall on their
knees and every night and pray that they don't- they don't turn violent.
The biggest fear is that black people will turn violent on them and
that's what happened during the '70's when they had the ra-race riots.
That stopped them so cold in Lowndes County when the Watt-Watts riot
broke it loose, the white people'd run to the T.V. and look to say, "Oh
my God. They're mad. They're coming for us. Oh my God, what we gonna
do?" But the point was that they didn't understand, and refused to
accept, that we'd been taking this kind of pressure for so many years,
and told by King to be non-violent, to bow our heads, till the next time
a billy club hit us, it's okay. I don't ascribe to that. John Lewis had
the most hardest time you ever dreamed of and Jim Forman said we keep
those in SNIC to remain non-violent- because we've seen the people that
we work with get beaten. We didn't uh..- you-you don't ask somebody-
uh.. encourage to go to the court, to the jailhouse to-to vote, get
beaten and I'll accept that? Oh no, not me. No-no-no. I'm coming fer ya.
I'm gonna figure out some way how to get holda you, 'cause you don't lay
a hand on her, or lay a hand on him- and I know them and I'm workin'
with them and trust them. You do that? Look for me come-come fer you,
I'm comin'.

Q: I hear you. Tell me about today.

\<CREW talk\>

**A1:** Today uh.. it's education. You have more white children in
Alabama here in private schools, because their parents do not want them
to be- come in contact with black children because it's competition. My
child knows how many marbles a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ may beside you child
know it. For 300 years they would not allow black people to read or
write or answer \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Now we can read and write, work at a
computer like anyone else, and they worry because that means one thing-
we're equal in mind. We can think. Oh no. \<sneezes\> Get some cotton.
Cotton don't work for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ - got a machine
taking care of that. So, what can- what can you use on it? They gotta
keep us in the dagone trought \[ph?\] by the education. The first thing
I seen on T.V. one time that scared the hell outta me was when a- when a
white girl or a cheerleader kissed a black-black football player from
the University of Alabama when he scored a touchdown. I was scared to
death. I said, "That man gonna be lynched before he-he gets-gets outta
the stadium." But she was so happy he scored a touchdown, she kissed him
on national T.V. I just closed my eyes and said, "Oh my God, she's-he's
dead." I just knew he was dead. They didn't mind. "Yay, he scored a
touchdown" he went\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, forgot that a white
girl had kissed a black man. I said, "Oh my God." Today, there's the
theme- in the theme of education. Bush's theme concerning uh-uh.. 'leave
no child behind', that's a damn lie. He's leaving children behind, he
know he's leavin' behind. Because he can keep the education levels down,
that means that-that- that less jobs will be made available to those
children that don't get-have a education. Economically, that means that
the black people will not be able to afford the homes that they-they
don't even own, to move into. Today in Selma, more white people leaving
this- leaving this town right now like a dead- like fleas off a dead
deer. People are flyin' outta here- goin' to Prattville, hoping they can
get for- have a better way of life- they want to have and recognize that
a black person living over there, they can see on the highway and wave
there, 'How ya doin'?' But that black person on the same job, they gotta
deal with, so long as they behave in a certain humble manner, that's
okay. When they exert themself, be independent and speak up for
themself, that's the fearful thing. Never give a man that doesn't know
anything a education. 'Cause once he has the education, he doesn't have
the same fear, the same prejudice, he had before. He's a different kind
of thing. The way it's going now, down here, \<sneezes\> is to
bottleneck the people up concerning economics. In Birmingham, black
people, they have gone and taken over Birmingham like you wouldn't
believe. The white people got so afraid behind what-what happen during
the time of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ there and the riots that
happened in Birmingham, they flee.. out of Birmingham. The blacks now
have moved in and people which are white are now in the suburb- they are
trying themselves to move back in because that's where the jobs are
located at. I see that black children are be- gonna be misused and used
concerning sports- that's how they gonna be done- that's how they being
done right now. You have more black men playing basketball, probably a
all-black team represented a-a certain city. Hockey, they haven't gotten
into. But baseball, they've gotten into. Basketball, they've gotten
into. Football, they've gotten into. But it's always the entertainment.
It's nothing like who works in the office with the- with the-the
National Football League, doing marketing, doing certain skills. Who is
there doing that? Who's-who's behind the camera in Hollywood- Hollywood,
that's the most damndest place I ever seen in my whole life, 'cause
Hollywood portrayed and perpetrated racism more so than any other
industry in the United States. Because the entertainment- Tarzan-
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \<makes sound\>. Why didn't Tarzan have a
tan? I asked that question when I was a kid in high school. I don't
understand why Tarzan never got a tan. But he definitely could howl like
an ape. Ape has thin lips. But you ask me- give
me\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ 'cause I got think lips. But why does
Tarzan always try to save the guy that's gonna come and steal the
treasure from the Africans? The gold? Why are the white people comin' to
Africa to finally get the gold, to get the diamonds? And call for
Tarzan, the-the-the- the white hope that comes swingin' out of the tree
and tell him, "I'm the \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, you stop that." Why?

Q: I appreciate where you're going with this.

**A1:** I'm sorry.

Q: But the National Park Service probably won't.

**A1:** Okay. \<laughs\>

Q: Let's stop for a second.

\<CREW talk\>

Q: Mr. Pettis filmed some scenes from the march.

**A1:** Uh hum.

Q: And I want you to look at these pictures and give me your impressions
of them.

**A1:** Uh hum.

Q: Because not only are we capturing your impressions for this film, but
there are other pieces of exhibitory throughout the museum which will
take advantage of these pictures and I promised I would ask people to
take a look at them to see if they provoke some memories for people.

**A1:** Uh hum.

Q: I'll go get the pictures right now.

\<CREW talk\>

**A1:** Okay. Uh.. this picture here, number 406. Uh.. this is where the
people were gathered in-in front of the church uh.. prior to uh.. I
would say a- either a mass meeting or getting ready to-for a march.
The-the-the barriers up here were the- is a form of-of crowd control and
you have the National Guard which is therefore in front of the church-
this probably here in Selma. Uh.. this is uhm.., where it says, 'b-bombs
cannot turn us around.' Uh.. that's where the bombs were used as a form
of-of intimidation at the various churches- they were- the churches were
being bombed and also being burned down. Uh.. this is, picture number
40-407, the theme about black and white together was a theme that was
circulated throughout SNIC, at that period of time uh.. where blacks and
whites would work together toward one goal and that was the freedom
of-of uh.. all the people. This here's a picture where uh.., number 408,
where this white man has this uh.. American flag with these uh..- and
you notice that it's-it's drizzling because the woman is using an
umbrella also. And that's most likely being held where they took a
rest-break somewhere along the march. I don't know where this other
picture is-comes from in number 409, but that is where- it's interesting
where you got, uh.. Mary Poppin \[ph?\], uh.. the Walt Disney movie, and
you got the uhm.. the people getting ready to-to-to get together
with-with- with the march. So far as for the National Guard, the MP's
here in number 410, that is the look of the National Guard members,
which was very angry that uh.. Wallace called 'em out, concerned with
protecting the marchers, they didn't like that at all. Uh.. this
picture, number 411, was showing a number of American flags and one- I
believe one of the flags was where Timothy Mays was carrying the flag
throughout the march, uh.. to Selma to Montgomery. Right here in number
416 was where we showed how we got fed. We got fed where food was
brought out in line and those which go in would get fed, would go down
the line, and there-from there- from there would go to various tent
areas that we used to-for- to keep-keep uhm.. themselves out uh..- out
of the cold. Picture number 412 again, a young man with a sleeping bag,
laying down with American Flag in front-over his head. Uhm.. it was cold
at that period of time and you can see because they're using the-the
plastic on the grass to keep the-the uhm.. the dampness out. This
num-picture number 418- these black children was on a porch, watching
the people which were in-in- getting ready to march and the umbrellas
show to also the fact of how cold it was and how the drizzle was coming
down. This picture number 419, I don't know what that was like but uh..-
but uh..- but it most likely somebody who was involved in the march that
was talking to a black woman on-on her porch that they were ob-observing
different ones, aand getting ready to march and-and uhm.. going toward
Montgomery. Uh.. we used flatbed trucks, this picture number 420
\<sneezes\> where we could have I would say rallies, along the pre-
along the march that was used- uhm.. the American flag was a-a very
heavy symbol that was uh.. constantly being portrayed as that we were
Americans too, carrying-carrying the American flag into-into war. Uhm..
clapping and singing the freedom songs- the young people there, right in
there, they were-were very instrumental concerning the singing. Uh..
this picture, uh-uh.. number 40-426, showing black women on- sitting
on-on the side of a-a- in front of a house, with the man with the
American flag and-and uh.. most likely in a black neighborhood because
of conditions of-of the porch, and a young girl with a sleeping bag,
uh.. that was behind her also, uh.. shows how-how people are getting
ready for when the marchers should get started. Uh.. picture number 422,
I don't remember this picture too much. It's just showing a number of
black women uh.. probably standing in-in line to get ready to be
involved in the march or trying to go to the courthouse to register to
vote. Uh.. picture number 428, this black man waving at different ones
which were standing on the roadside, watching the marchers go by.
\<sneezes\> A large number of these black people would come from the
various areas- they're inside of Selma or in the country-country area,
and would come to the roadside on Highway 80- they could not join the
march, but they could observe those who were marching by and would wave
at them as a form of support. Picture number 429, this where is a number
of bl-white people are sitting on the porch, observing this phenomena,
going about and passing their houses, where they were watching these
black people which were their- could be their-their maids or their
servants of some form, around the house, cuttin' the grass or doing some
kind of-of hard labor- they were watching them exert themself concerning
their-their- their seeking of freedom and equality and the right to
vote. They were observing them and-and- in a state of awe- as to see who
was there, who were the people that were there that they could identify
later on in-in- in a form of retribution against them. Oh yes, we have
the Confederate flag. The Confederate flag that's flying right here,
carried by this young white man, uh.. it shows that these people here,
in pic-picture number 429, are the same ones which indoctrinated this
poor white boy to believe in the very fact of his heritage concerning
the south and the fact that carrying this uh.. the Confederate flag is a
symbol of pride and also of his heritage, not willing to recognize that
the slavery was-is involved in that flag. That's why today, the
Confederate flag is looked upon as a flag of slavery, because it was
carried into-into battle, uh.. concerning- against the- against the
uhm.. the union. Uh.. this club outside here, Bill's Club, I don't know
where this is located but I'm plenty sure it's somewhere along the trail
on Highway 80. This uh.. crowd of people in number 436, these young
black men here are singing freedom songs and \<sneezes\> it's outside,
looking outside somewhere outside of Selma, going to Montgomery, going
toward Montgomery. Picture number 437, this white girl is passing out
fruit juice that was there for- passed on the top of a-a flatbed truck
to those that were inside of-of the trail being fed, and that's how it
was done that way. The idea- the way she's just handing out nourishment
to blacks and white together, that was down on the bottom of the flatbed
truck, is-is is an in-indication about unity, and also survival. Uh..
now we have these young black men which are therefore got their sleeping
bags outside the tents. \<sneezes\> The tent was where- the women slept
in one ten- side of-of-of the- of the march, and on the other side of
the campground they slept in another tent area which they- which they
held for women. But these are young black men that-that were involved in
either going-getting ready for bedtime. Uh.. the overall and the black
man with the- with-his- with his- with his work hat, and the young man
with his sunglasses. Here we got the two, in picture number 439, you
have two level of people \<sneezes\>- excuse me- various groups, one
young and one older, one representing the-the young man without the
overalls, one representing the-the older farmer from the country.
There-there- it was most likely it was outside a-a- tent area where they
were- they were sleeping-sleeping together. We have a young woman in-in
picture number 440, which is trying to take a nap, take a rest- you have
those on the- on the- on the roadside, waving. Picture number 404, 41,
this is what would happen in the- on the countryside going down- up and
down Highway 80. All up and down Highway 80, you had large numbers of
black people that would come from the countryside and the roads- from
various roads, the country roads, to the main Highway 80, going to
Montgomery \<sneezes\> and they would wave and they would give us food,
they would give us shouts of encouragement, which would go along
consistent to-with our work that we were doing. Picture number 446, it's
showing a young white man with a sledge-hammer putting down the-the
stakes to hold the tents up, uh.. that was involved, in uh.. in-for
places us to stay for that night. Here we got again, picture number 447-
people inside of Mont-Montgomery tend to want to- this has to be in
Montgomery because the way it looks, or outside of Selma- would gather
on- at different one's.. front porches and they would come to-to visit
different ones that lives on a major route, going through to the city,
to the State capital, and would gather there and would wave at us, forms
of encouragement for us to keep on marching. Oh yes. The tight shoes.
Picture number 448. \<sneezes\> A lot of people, because of-of marching,
would get blisters on their feet because of the tight shoes or the shoe
they would normally wear that would- after a long period of time would
cause them to have blisters- uh.. would take their shoes off and walk
through uh.. mud because the mud was cool to their- to their hot feet
that was burning and hurting- they would walk through the mud to cool
their feet off. Uh.. you would see this happen a number of times. The
thing we had to do was, after we started marching, was to bathe our feet
and powder them down, and then keep our feet in-in, I would say,
flexible enough- the skin would be flexible enough to take the harshness
of the- of our shoes, based on the le-leather rubbing our feet.

\<CREW talk\>

NEW INTERVIEW

Q: At long last.

**A2:** \<laughs\>

Q: How did you as a young woman become involved in the Selma to
Montgomery March and when was it? Tell me how it all came about for you.

**A2:** Well uh.. after uh.. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Sunday, and
uh..\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ they
could march and they would have protection, the organizers had uh.. a
meeting in Birmingham and- at a motel where my brother-in-law, Dr. A.J.
Gastin {ph?\], owned. And he told them that when they got into Lowndes
County to look for Robert Gardner, which was uh-uh.. the person that was
overseeing the Gardner's Estate and that uh.. get permission from him
and they would let them do the uh.. third uh-uh.. stay over.

Q: A.J. Gastin was your brother-in-law?

**A2:** My brother-in-law. My husband's sister, her husband.

Q: Right.

**A2:** Uh hum.

Q: I grew up in Birmingham.

**A2:** Is that right?

Q: Yes mam. And A.J. Gastin was a friend of my family.

**A2:** Uh hum.

Q: And he used to let us come over to his house and swim in his pool.
Anyway, that's a name I hadn't heard in a long time.

**A2:** Uh hum.

Q: And then the organizers did that, right?

**A2:** Right, right. They uh-uh..- they came to Lowndes County and they
stopped at a church on Highway 80 and they were asking some of the
members that they knew a Robert Gardner. And she told him, "Yes", say,
"those are my family people." And so this person came to our house and
told us that they were looking for us. And then a day or two uh.. the
organizer came and they talked to us about uh.. letting them- letting-
the uh.. marchers sleep over on the third watch, and so he said that
uh..- Robert told him, he said, "Well let me talk to my wife". And then-
I wasn't at home, I was at work. And said, "I get back with you." So the
next day he that called back, he told him, "Yes. You're welcome to
come."

Q: So you had a strong hand in this decision?

**A2:** Yes I did.

Q: What did you have to consider? There were a lot of white folks around
who didn't want this march to happen, a lot of people you were teaching
in the school system that were...

**A2:** That's right. That's right

Q: Tell me all about how you came to this decision.

**A2:** Well uh.. I-I-I know that we were not allowed to vote and uh..
and I thought that was uh.. a privilege that we deserved. So I told him,
I said, "Whatever, we're going to go for it." I said, "Because our
children need a good education. They need to uh-uh.. advance. We need to
vote. We need to have a-a voice in who we elect for our representative,
whoever that." And so I was willing to go, and they said, "Well, what
about your job?" I said, "I don't think that would be a problem." And it
wasn't.

Q: Had you ever tried to register to vote yourself?

**A2:** Uh-uh.. no I hadn't. Because every time uh.. people would say,
"Well\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ your going up there because they're not gonna
let you go." And so I had- I had never attempted, to vote, to register.

Q: Let me get you to tell me that one more time. I need to put this idea
of registering to vote in the first sentence, so people know what we're
talking about.

**A2:** I never got a chance to register to vote and I thought, when the
marchers came through, there was gonna be an opportunity. And we went
for it.

Q: That makes it sound real simple, "We went for it." But it was more
complex than that, wasn't it?

**A2:** \<laughs\> Right. Right.

Q: Tell me how complex it was.

**A2:** Well we had a little uh.. confrontation. Uh.. after the word got
out that they were going to camp at our place, there were three men came
to our house and they called my husband out and they said that uh.. "We
will give you any amount of money if you would not let them uh.. stay.
So he told them, he said, "Well, I tell you what. I can't tell you what
to do on your property, so you can't tell me what to do on mine." He
said, "I have made that decision and they are going to stop." And so,
that was the end of that. We didn't have any-any more problem out of
anybody else.

Q: Okay.

**A2:** Other than after the march.

Q: What happened after the march?

**A2:** After the march, uh.. about a couple of days after the march,
the helicopter was still moving around, they were flying over the place
to see what's going on, and they spot one of- a person that lived- his
property was adjoining to ours- and he was standing in his backyard,
with a rifle with a telescope on it. And he was looking and pointing
toward the house. And the helicopter took a picture of him and landed
and called the uh.. policemen. And they came and so he told them, he
said, "Now, if anything should happen to Robert and his family, we're
coming after you." And he say, "You are going to look after them and not
let anything happen to them." So that was- that was the only uh.. the
incident that we had after the march. Other than that, everything went
well.

Q: That was a serious incident.

**A2:** It was. Yes, it was.

Q: Back to the march now. A lot of people showed up on your doorstep.

**A2:** Yes, yes, yes it was.

Q: I want to hear that.

**A2:** It was- I was at work.. and it started raining. So uh.. the
principal had.. driven out to his mother's house to check on them- to
check on uh.. his in-laws. And he came back and he told me, he said,
"Uh.. the marchers on their way. They almost there." And I said, "Okay."
So when school was out, I went in and got my 5-year-old -- the other
three was in the car with me- they went to the same school that I
taught-taught at. And when we got home, my mother was with me, plus the
children. And I couldn't get my car into my house. So uh.. one of the
officers told me, said, "Just park your car here", saying, "Leave the
keys in. When they get the road uh.. cleared, we will bring your car
in." \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ the tents were being erected. They had lights
going on everywhere. And there was a food truck from Morrison Cafeteria
in Montgomery to bring the food down. So they had to get that kinda
cleared off. So we had to walk into the house and then we went in. On
the porch there was every- a lot of people sitting and they were wet,
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, and they needed to use the bathroom. So I
said, "Go ahead and help yourself." So my husband was there at home and
some of the neighbors was there also. And uh.. so they went in
and-and-and used the restroom. At that time, we didn't have running-
city water- we had a cistern with a pump in it and it pumped the water
to the house. I said, "I hope they won't dry the well." \<laughs\> But
they didn't. And-and the minute they came- and then we didn't have
carpet- in that time, we had uh.. linoleum in-in the hallway coming
down- I'm glad we didn't because we had to kind of mop the floor every
time a crowd would leave out. But uh.. we tried to take care of this and
many of them they asked if they could- if you want some water, you can
have it. Come on and sit on the porch if you want to. And uhm.. it-it
was- it was just such a interesting thing to just to see those many
people committed, to come down to help for us. That was very important.
It was very important. And then in this- in this group of people there
was uh.. Hoss Cartwright and uh.. Robert Parnell, Parnell Roberts, they
played on that show, and his wife was with him- and uhm.. my children
got a chance to take a picture with them- but they was supposed to have
sent us a picture but they- we never did get it. But that was- that-that
was a sight that I will never forget, to see them all out there, kinda
wet and they had to get dried and whatnot, and their tents up. The
ground was wet and \<clears throat\> so my husband had a lot of hay that
he used for his cows. And so we had to uh.. let them have some hay so
they could kind of have something dry to stand on. And then our two
neighbors of ours, uh.. had hay also and they brought them over, and
uh.. they just helped them out, to put 'em down there. But I didn't get
to go through the uh.. tents because it was kind of muddy and I was on a
red mood, \<laughs\> and so- but uh.. I-we sat on the porch and watched
'em- a lot of 'em was on the porch with us, and we just talked and asked
them how did they make it all the way up there. And it- and-and the uh..
interesting thing about it- there was a man that had one leg.. and he-
and-and he was on his crutches. And this one pair of shoe- you know, you
had to buy the whole pair of shoes- so this one had worn out and uh.. he
was sitting there and so my brother-in-law came and he said, "Let me
take you to Montgomery and get you a pair of shoes." So he took him to
Montgomery at Wheels and got him some shoes and that what helped him to
go on to St. Jude. And then after then they- after they had eaten and
everything, they start singing-- they has prayer- they had different
speakers and whatnot, and the light was going. Soldiers was all around
the house. We were surrounded with the National Guard, so that was any-
no need to worry, just rest that one night. But other than that,
everything-everything went real well.

Q: I bet the kids' eyes were big as saucers.

**A2:** Yes they- yes they were. They-they-they they were excited. They
were very excited. And our- a neighbor of mine came over and he took
the- my 5-year-old and put her acr- on his shoulder and walked her
through what others could walk with their galoshes had went on. But it
was- it-it was very, very interest- and it was kinda touching too. It
was very.. interesting just to see.

Q: How do you mean it was touching?

**A2:** It-it-it- it just made you f-feel a feeling of want, that you
are uh-uh-uh.. recognized, that you are needed, you are special. And it-
and it- and it just gave you a good feeling of seeing how people was
doing something for me. And that was- that was real, real good.

Q: How many people do you think there were at the camp that night? This
is the third camp before St. Jude. People had been gathering, coming
from the counties.

**A2:** Right.

Q: Feeding into the march.

**A2:** Right. It-it- it was more than 200. I figure it could have been
500. It was more than 200 people there. It was- it was a good crowd.

Q: A good crowd.

**A2:** Uh hum. Because each-each tent was packed, because we had one on
one side for the men, the other side was for the ladies. Uh hum.

Q: I'm told that King joined this aggregation the next day.

**A2:** Right.

Q: Did he come and say thank-you?

**A2:** Uh.. no because uh-uh.. when they- when-when they left.. to go
to uh.. St. Jude, then I left to go to work and uh..- because one of my
neighbors had to pick me up because I couldn't get my car out. We had to
walk to the road. And uh.. he didn't uh..- now he may have joined the
march near Montgomery, but-but he didn't- he-he wasn't at our uh..
place, the night before. Uh huh.

Q: Did you watch the coverage on T.V. that night, or the next night?

**A2:** It-it was so much going on to- we didn't get all of it. We had-
no-no- in-in-in portions- it wasn't a part of it- we saw some of it, and
not too much of it.

Q: Before long, we had a Voting Rights Act.

**A2:** And that's right.

Q: And a lot of this stuff started to shift and change.

**A2:** Uh hum.

Q: Do you remember when you got the first chance to vote?

**A2:** Oh yeah. Uh.. it-it was- the-the very next election- because
uh.. when school was out, when they had the registration time for you to
go up, our supervisor- and we had backing from our superintendent- our
supervisor called all the teachers, said, "Meet us in Hayneville and we
are going to register to vote." And that- and that's what we did. We all
went up there, one time. We say, if we go one by one, they might turn us
down. So we went as a group and we stood in line at the old jailhouse,
and we went in and we had to take this test. Then we had to read
something. And then after having done all of that, then they would say,
"We will notify you, if you passed it or not." So every teacher that
went up passed it, except one. They passed it except one. And then that
Fall, when they had an election, we had a chance to vote.

\<CREW talk\>

Q: There's an old saying, the more things change, the more they remain
the same. Obviously things have changed in this town and in Lowndes
County. Everything is still familiar to you, I'm sure.

**A2:** Uh hum.

Q: How do white folks and black folks get along?

**A2:** Well so far they get on real good. We-we-we don't uh.. have any
problem, with them.

Q: I need you to put 'blacks and whites' in the first sentence.

**A2:** Uh huh. Blacks and whites get along real good now, since all of
this happened and they knew that we had our rights, and we could vote
'em out if we wanted to. And we get along real good.

Q: So you've seen more black people get elected to office?

**A2:** Yes. Uh hum. More black folk getting elected. Uh hum.

Q: Your property is in Lowndes County?

**A2:** Right. It's on Highway 80.

Q: The literature describes it as 'bloody Lowndes'.

**A2:** \<laughs\>

Q: Did you guys describe it as such?

**A2:** No, no. We-we have never thought of it in that respect, bloody
Lowndes. There were a lot of killings there, that I heard about, but
uh.. not near around where I was. Uh huh. We had a real good community.
\<clears throat\>

Q: What else would you like to contribute to this film? From a personal
perspective, what sticks with you the most? How would you like to add
your piece of punctuation to this?

**A2:** \<laughs\> Well, one thing....

\#### End of CD 3 \####