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Na Hoapili o Kaloko Honokohau

Advisory Commission

# Minutes of the Meeting

February 10, 2006

Kaloko-Honokohau National Historical Park Headquarters

Kailua-Kona, Hawaii

Members present: Chair: Ruby Keanaaina McDonald, Chad Baybayan, Nainoa
Perry, Mikahala Roy, Ulalia Ka\`ai Berman, Cynthia Nazara, Joseph
Nahale, Kathleen Ahina, and JoAnne Kahanamoku Sterling.

Members absent: Dale Fergerstrom and Frank Hays.

National Park Service: Superintendent Geraldine Bell, Chief of Resource
Management; Richard Boston, Chief of Interpretation Theresa Reveira, and
Administrative Officer; Linda Underwood.

## Guest: Kanae Keawe, and Luna Kanawai Hauanio. 

## 

## Site visit to Kaloko pond and area proposed for the Cultural/Education Center.

## **Call to Order**

Chairperson McDonald called the meeting to order at 9:15 a.m.

## 

## **Opening Remarks**

Superintendent Bell announced the new members of the Commission; JoAnne
Sterling as the Mayors representative who is replacing Herb Kane. Kanae
Keawe is replacing former member Paige Barber who passed away. His
paperwork is in our Washington Office, his appointment needs to be
confirmed by the Secretary of the Interior.

**Approval of Minutes**

Motion to accept the minutes from November 18, 2005 introduced by
Commissioner Baybayan; seconded by Commissioner Nahale. Motion
unanimously carried.

**Statements from the Public**

Hauanio said that he spoke to the principals of Konawaena, Hookena, and
Honaunau schools in their effort to get their kids involved with the
National Parks and is looking forward to that. Laiopua 2020, a
non-profit group is working towards the construction of recreation
facilities at Laiopua. They would also like to participate with and
kokua the National Park Service.

Roy said it's important to reflect on these groups as Lai o Pua 2020 is
a good organization. There is also Kealakehe 2020 and Na Kokua Kaloko
Honokohau and other groups that should be listed in our minutes for
reference.

**Update on 18-Acres**

Ahina asked if the County has taken over the 18-acres, and if so, will
the County turn it over to the National Park Service, and who are the
Developers.

Bell explained that the 18-acres are still in the developers' hands and
will be turned over to the County. She does not believe it will be
turned over to the National Park Service. The agreement the County has
with the land owner is that the developer will provide the amenities,
such as restrooms and parking. Everything to make that area a park and
then turn it over to the County of Hawaii.

We have recreation areas in the park but that is not the park's
priority. Because of the cultural resources that are still in the
18-acres, we have proposed to the developers that we try and work
together to protect those areas. The National Park Service can provide
the County with the expertise in marine and cultural programs in
protection of the resources. The developer is Rutter Development based
out of Los Angeles.

**Save America's Treasure Grant**

Ahina asked if there is still funding for the Kaloko fishpond wall
project.

Boston explained that funds will eventually run out, and currently there
is approximately enough for nine months with the current staff to work
on the wall. Plans are underway for a new estimate and to determine how
long it will take to complete the wall project. It will take more than
nine months, maybe two to three years. The Save America's Treasures
Grant was granted to find matching funds or in-kind services for
contributions. The park still has \$132,500 of that match to raise from
the private sector.

Sterling asked if the Save America's Treasures program is a separate
entity from the Federal Government.

Boston said that it's a government grant program that was set up during
the Clinton years. Congress realized that we have national treasures in
the National Parks who are either not properly funded or they had impact
occurring to them, and so they created this grant so Federal agencies
could apply for it. It was set up to be a matching fund with community
support to match those federal dollars. The grants are very competitive
and they have to be sites of national significant.

Ahina asked what does the cooperative agreement with the Research
Cooperative of University of Hawaii do for the park as far as projects.

Superintendent Bell explained that the Research Cooperation of the
University is involved with research and they support agencies that have
project funding that can be turned over to them so they can do the work
for the agencies. What Kaloko-Honokohau NHP have done in the past with
other projects, is write up a proposal, turn it over to the University
and they do the work for us. Most of the men that are currently working
on the Kaloko wall project are employed by the State of Hawaii.

Boston added that Rick Gmirkin the project archeologist, has been with
Kaloko-Honokohau NHP for ten years as a State employee and has been
working on documenting the work on the Kaloko wall project.

**Proposed Live-In Cultural/Education Center**

Ahina asked if it was determined what the purpose of the center would
be. McDonald explained that it was for discussion only and that the
commission is working on a set of rules. Baybayan said that the set of
rules was to establish the requirement for someone applying for the use
of the center. The purpose was that the center is to serve the Hawaiian
people who are the primary audience. In the process of serving the
primary audience, if the secondary audience such as visitors can be
accommodated, then that's fine, but that's not what the center is about,
it's about the Hawaiian people.

[Location for the Live-In Center:]{.underline}

After the site visit this morning, Baybayan said it would be appropriate
to go back and talk about the location of the center. Bell agreed and
apologized for another site visit and explained that the park staff
approached her and mentioned another area that wasn't considered before.
She felt this site was better and that the commission members should
revisit the area and make a decision before moving forward.

After discussing with Perry about the site area, Baybayan summarized
that as commission members they are tasked with providing for our
beneficiaries, the best possible site that they can, even if it means
changing at this point in time. He and Perry felt that the site they
visited this morning is a better site because of its seclusion, it exist
in a little *puka* area with surrounded by archeological features which
means that the Hawaiians lived in that area, and that we can create
something as real as possible. There are enough disturbed materials in
which the place where we will work will be approved by the park. The
*mauka* side has a ridge that obscures the *mauka* development, and the
vegetation points to the fact there is fresh water available, it's also
close to the fishpond area and the Kaloko cemetery. All around it's the
best site; there is a lot of good reason for selecting this site.

Roy thanked Superintendent Bell and the staff for taking the time to
consider this and supports Baybayan and Perry decision for the site
area. We were looking for a place where the Hawaiians once lived.

Sterling asked if it was possible to combine both sites in combination
with the activities. Bell replied that it would be a start, and that the
park is the center for preservation. The Kaloko site would be the main
activity area for the center, and in later years the site at the Huehue
trail could be used for other activities. Superintendent Bell said she
has a good feeling about the Kaloko area, and the fact that the cemetery
is there. People there could *malama* if need to, and we wouldn't have
to worry about vandalism from participants in that area because there is
that respect. That is what the participants will have to learn before
they enter the center.

Roy said the comments are well taken. The idea about the where we live
would be those people that are wanting to see the ways of this land
thrive, and yes, it's going to be rigorous. The go between area was the
place where former commissioner Cachola suggested. His point is a good
one. McDonald recalled and said that the place was going to be sort of
like a staging area that allows you to be on-site but the next level is
the emergence.

Motion to revisit the dredge pile site area as the proposed site #4 for
the location of the Live-In Education Center introduced by Commissioner
Baybayan; seconded by Commissioner Perry. Motion unanimously carried.

[Planning Stages of the Live-In Center]{.underline}

Nahale asked now that the location has been decided on, what is the next
step.

[Canoe Hale]{.underline}

Perry said they would have to separate the *halau wa'a* from the
*kauhale*, and asked if there is another place to construct the *halau
wa'a*, perhaps near the Kaloko pond. Bell replied that there is a site
at the Kaloko pond area to construct a new *halau wa'a.* The vision of
the National Park Service is to turn the Kaloko fishpond into a working
fishpond. There's no sense in restoring the fishpond wall and not work
the pond. The new site would be inconvenient for a canoe *hale* so it
makes sense to have the *hale* closer to Kaloko pond.

Perry asked if we have the people to construct the *hale*, or if the
park will build it. Bell said no, we don't. She's hoping the advisory
commission will come up with a plan. The whole idea was to get community
or group involvement in doing this because the park does not have the
resources. Sterling asked if can go out for funding, or partner with a
non-profit organization. Bell replied that we could go out for funding
and hire people to do it.

Perry said he was led to believe that in this disturbed area they could
prepare the site the way they saw fit by using the old rocks to build
the *hale* foundation after the assessment is done. Bell replied yes and
believes it was mentioned at the site area.

Keawe asked if the park has the original craftsmen who put together the
*Hale Pili* at Puuhonua o Honaunau National Park. Bell replied that they
are still employed at the park and they are maintenance workers.
Constructing the *hale* is only part of their jobs; it is hard work and
a big job. I could use them as experts but I cannot have work on the
park's project 100%. What they could do is teach. Pu\`uhonua o Honaunau
NHP received \$300,000 in funding to reconstruct the *Hale o Keawe*, and
we hired ten laborers from the community for a year. Staff taught them
how to construct the *hale*. Roy recommended funding for Perry who is
one of the resources, and that we need to empower this drive to find our
natural workers in the field, and to pay them. This is not a mechanical
thing but something from the heart; it is a strong drive to bring health
to thatching. The crew that did the *Ahuena Heiau*, we know them well,
they are people from Kona. That's our effort right there, to find
people, born of the heart, who want to keep going, and Perry is a good
example of teaching all those who want to come and help.

Sterling said that education is still involved and is an on going thing.
Keawe added that you can have the heart to do it, but you also need to
have the ability. Perry asked if building the hale will be modern or
ancient construction. Bell said it should be an educational process, it
will take a long time, and there will be persons who will make mistakes,
but that's how they learn. Perry asked to what extend are we to
determine what is traditional, and feels there are no more experts
anymore that know the protocol.

Nazara said there are experts out there but are they willing to come and
spend the time to teach without getting paid. Whether we like it or not,
this is the real world, these people who are putting out their
expertise, need to be paid. We need to determine what part of it is
traditional, and how fast we want to move on it. When we put all these
pieces together, then we decide who we are going to get involved from
the community. Before we even start, we need an educational class which
involves a lot of time. But it's a good thing to teach the children, so
do we want to take that time.

McDonald added that the Hawaiian culture is dynamic, it's not stale, and
they adapt, and reutilize new things.

Sterling stated that the presence of everyone here has an in depth
compassion to the preservation of our cultural, however, we are in the
21^st^ century.

[Vegetation]{.underline}

Bell said that she needs to discuss with the staff of Resource
Management to see what the next steps are. She believes it's probably
removing the pickleweed, and then we have to look into getting native
vegetation in there. We need to decide what we're going to put in there
first. The closest area will be off Kaloko road along the dredge pipe
that the ranch had built because the area is disturbed.

Roy asked about gathering of materials. Bell replied that the native
materials are scarce, the *'ohia, pili* and *hau*, all of our native
materials are being depleted because of development that's occurring.
Sterling asked if it was possible to develop through a group to do an
accumulation of plants. Bell replied that the park has been using their
vegetation management plan to the types of plants that we can bring into
the park for revegetation. We can decide what type of plants and what
would work best.

Sterling said that the Outdoor Circle is involved in situations like
this and if there is a committee within a committee to activate all of
that, the committee would research on it and that could be established
into a separate entity to where the Outdoor Circle could assist. Roy
stated that in the past there have been problems with the Outdoor Circle
with the identification of the true native plants that have been
identified by early research. Sterling replied that many have deviated
from whatever situation they're into and would rather move forward than
backwards.

Boston stated that the park currently has an agreement with TREES to
replant native indigenous species in the park. The park has just
received funding for a new area and so we have expertise in that area,
and that we can propose new projects for vegetation at the new site
location.

Bell said that the park currently has a programmatic agreement that is
waiting for Peter Young's signature, once that's signed, we can starting
with the planting process for that location. Perry asked who will select
what types of plants are to be planted; Bell replied that the commission
should decide that.

[Environmental Assessment]{.underline}

Bell said the first step would be an environmental assessment, and asked
Boston what steps are needed before planting.

Boston replied that it probably will take an Environmental Impact
Statement (EIS) or Environmental Assessment (EA) and is not sure how
large a scale because we can't just look at the two acres; we need to
look at what's around it in association with it and so forth. We really
shouldn't be jumping in and planting without including that in the
environmental assessment or whatever level it is.

Perry asked how much of a delay can they expect, does more studies need
to be made, is the archeological survey complete in that area or do we
need to have than done first.

Boston said there is not going to be an archeological survey at the
dredge pile site, but we would like to do a survey around that area or
the access trail. It's a relatively manageable size to do internally.

Hauanio suggested the National Park Service should consider doing a
Development Plan with the State in partnership to avoid the time. He
explained that *Hokulia* developed an agreement and it helped expedite
the process where public hearings were the only element that really had
to be fulfilled. Because this is only 2-acres he felt they should look
into a planning process. Bell explained that the National Park Service
is a Federal agency and there are environmental laws, including Sections
106 that we have to abide by. The archeological part will be like any
normal archeological survey whether it's State, County, Federal or
private; it will have to be done. McDonald stated that on the County
level, they have no jurisdiction whatsoever, we cannot work with them
anyhow and it's less than 15 acres anyway.

Bell included that this would probably take about six months; at the
minimum we have to do an EA, writing it, going out to the public a
30-day review, getting comments back, etc.

Ahina asked what the members could do to move this along while we wait
for the EA process. Boston replied that we have worked with the State
Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) to create a new programmatic
agreement for cultural resources. What that means is that within in a
month to six weeks, we will have a signed document that says there are
certain things we can do that we don't need to go through the
consultation process with SHPO. Some of those things included are out
planting or replanting vegetation especially in disturbed areas and
start to put in some native plants. We will see if we can move a couple
of our projects that are currently funded from the location that you've
identified to this location, and if we can legally do that, we could
probably start on that once it's signed maybe four to six weeks.

[Irrigation]{.underline}

Perry recalls from previous meetings that water was not going to be
piped in that area for irrigation, or for the people staying at the
center and wanted clarification. Bell replied that she couldn't answer
that because we were talking about the site that was barren, so she
doesn't know. Perry asked if this would take another six months, Bell
replied it could.

Boston said that some of the watering for plants is done with water
tanks in the back of the mules or ATV on a weekly basis. Bell said that
the park has a drip irrigation system where the visitor contact station
is located, but we water our plants using the mules.

Regarding the drip irrigation system, Nahale said that from the original
studies, the watering system was done with husk that are soaked in water
and felt that if we're going to be doing it in the traditional way. I
think a black drip system, certainly trees, could distract from its
ambience of being a Hawaiian living cultural center. As the
commissioners and the resource people, we should think how the Hawaiians
did the water irrigation. It disturbs him having a drip system in a
Hawaiian cultural village.

Boston said it was a suggestion prior to the Live-In Center actually
being constructed to get some native plants started before we have
someone in there that can tend to plants in a more traditional way. So
you would have a set of plants to start with and that would be added,
and if desired, the drip can be removed.

[Development]{.underline}

Ahina asked if it's appropriate to have a representative of DLNR at our
next meeting to give us information on the piece of property we've been
talking about for two years, the one by the harbor. Bell said that a
letter was drafted for the Superintendent of the Honolulu Office to
write to Peter Young to let him know that the park is interested in
managing those two parcels that are under State control but in the
authorized boundary of the park. We should be getting a yes or no, but
would like to invite to our next meeting David Tarnas who is the
environment planner for Jacobi who is developing the property south of
the park. He could update us on the State's plan for the harbor and
should be able to answer some of the questions about that property.
Maybe we'll go that route; by the next meeting we should have an answer
from Peter Young. The property is in the authorized boundary but within
the State's control. It would also be nice if Ahina could give us an
update on the Regional planning for the Dept. of Hawaiian Homelands.
Ahina replied that she would be very happy to do so.

Ahina also asked what is a buffer zone, and how big? In regard to the
shores of Kohanaiki development, Bell said the conceptual plan for that
property had indicated that there would be a 10-foot buffer zone, which
is kind of like 10-foot no build set back between the park and their
property. But from what we understand, that is no longer because they
are grubbing right up to the property line. Ahina stated that we should
address that at the next meeting.

Ahina asked about plans for public access to the beach. She understands
that the National Park Service owns the ocean in front of the park. Bell
replied that there are 500 hundred acres of water included in the
authorized boundary of the park. The State maintains and controls the
waters surrounding the Hawaiian Islands. One of the items in the letter
to Peter Young asks about the status of a Memorandum of Agreement
between the National Park Service and State Department of Land and
Natural Resources for joint management of the 500 acres of water.

Ahina asked about public access. Bell said they have plans to divide the
property into 500 lots with an upscale gated community with an 18-hole
golf course overlooking the park. McDonald said part of it would be
public access to the park.

Ahina asked if we could invite our representatives, like Josh Green, to
our next meeting to listen to what our two neighbors have to say and
should be in the loop of what's going on. McDonald suggested inviting
all of West Hawaii council and senate representatives to our next
meeting. Boston suggested doing an opening of 5 to 10 minutes
presentation of the park to talk in general about the live-in center,
and Nahale suggested putting together a visitor or briefing packet and
hand out to them about our plans and vision.

**Other Issues**

Bell announced she's seriously considering extending the Advisory
Commission, as the Commissions work is not done. The extension would be
for 5 years but that doesn't mean you cannot complete your work in a
couple of years or less.

Sterling suggested that because we're into different subjects or
matters' concerning the park we should do a chart to designate each
activity and the importance of what we're doing and where we're going.
One of the reasons for having this chart is perhaps we could go to
sponsors or whoever that are willing to help out in each of these
activities that we're going to formulate for the park. We're talking
about different subjects but we need something to put us in sight.
McDonald replied that the commission currently has committees set up,
one committee was the planning, rules and regulations; another committee
was for landscaping and design.

Bell said this committee cannot do fundraising for the park because the
commission is Federal appointed. But there's other ways; if you know an
organization who would like to donate, or go into partnership, or other
non profit organization.

**Actions**

Commission members to decide what plants will be planted at the center
site.

Boston to check if an EIS or EA is to be done for the site area.

Luna Kanawai Hauanio to submit a profile of his non profit organization
Laiopua 2020, to the National Park Service.

Boston will mail out to the advisory commission members a list of plants
that are in general of what the park is replanting or intend to replant.

Sterling suggested the members come up with a chart to designate each
activity.

Bell to invite David Tarnas of Jacobi Development, Dave Eadie of Rudder
Development, all West Hawaii State and Council representatives to our
next advisory meeting for an update on development plans for areas
surrounding the park.

Sterling will invite Mayor Harry Kim to our next advisory meeting.

Ahina will do an update on the Regional Plan for the Dept. of Hawaiian
Homelands at the next meeting.

**Next Meeting**

The next Commission meeting is scheduled for April 28 at the King
Kamehameha Beach Hotel at 9:00 a.m.

Without further discussion the meeting adjourned at 2:40 p.m.

Respectfully submitted,

Linda Underwood

Administrative Officer, National Park Service

Approved for distribution:
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Chairperson