# **FEMA Director Allbaugh with Paula Zahn, CNN** 

**10/11/01**

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: You\'re looking at a live picture of the sight
that\'s become known as the pile where earlier today a memorial service
took place in New York City. It was at the sight where the Twin Trade
Towers once stood. Rescue workers, clergymen, and New York Mayor Rudolph
Giuliani were on hand for the service. So was FEMA Director Joe
Allbaugh, who has spent many hours at the sight over the last month, and
he joins us now. Welcome back.

JOE ALLBAUGH, FEMA DIRECTOR: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: You were at the service.

ALLBAUGH: I was.

ZAHN: How did it feel?

ALLBAUGH: It was an emotional moment. It\'s difficult to describe. You
hearken back over the last 30 days, all the experiences we as Americans
have gone through, both physically and emotionally. Work did not stop
during the service, as it should not. And yet we were able to bring
together 1,000 or so of the workers to pay a moment of respect. It was
an incredible event.

ZAHN: I think what made it so hard for some people to watch, including
myself, as you know that standing at that makeshift podium, that
happened to be the same place where families come, right\...

ALLBAUGH: That\'s correct.

ZAHN: \... who have lost their loved ones?

ALLBAUGH: That\'s correct. That by itself makes it a very emotional
moment, knowing that those individuals who are looking for closure,
looking for answers that I am deeply concerned about, making sure they
get the proper counseling, that they share that same podium looking from
the southwest corner of building two. But we have a long way to go.
We\'ve removed about 250,000 tons of debris. We\'ve opened up pier six,
which will expedite the removal of the debris. Folks are noticing more
smoke. That\'s because, during the de-layering process, oxygen gets to
the fires and they\...

ZAHN: I mean, that\'s what\'s so stunning to watch\... ALLBAUGH: It is.

ZAHN: \... that a month later you still have smoke, rising from that
site and, I understand, water underneath the building is 180 degrees?

ALLBAUGH: It\'s very warm. There are some pretty hot spots that
individuals can\'t even get close to. It will take probably another
three months to get to ground level of that debris that\'s above ground,
and then\...

ZAHN: Really? Just to get to ground level?

ALLBAUGH: That\'s right. And then you have six stories below, and it
will take a while \-- six, seven months, maybe a year or two to really
clean up the site. It is still hallowed ground, because those workers
that are there \-- pipe fitters, steel cutters, steel workers, iron
workers, teamsters \-- they know that they are working on hallowed
ground where individuals still remain.

ZAHN: Your agency is under intense scrutiny now, of course, as you
oversee this enormous effort down there. And an audit recently showed
\-- and this was long before you ever arrived at FEMA \-- that there
were some abuses in the system after the Northridge quake in California,
where a building that could have been restored to its pre- quake
capacity could have cost \$24 million; instead, FEMA ended up giving
these folks over \$400 million to rebuild it. Will we see those kinds of
abuses?

ALLBAUGH: Actually, the figure is more like \$17 billion at this point.
But I hope we don\'t see those types of abuses. We have individuals from
our own inspector general\'s office monitoring the debris removal
process. As we speak, we have individuals from the Corps of Engineers
working fervently with city officials. Ritchie Shearer (ph) and his
group, they\'ve done a phenomenal job. Rudy Giuliani, Tommy Von Essen
(ph), Bernard Kerrick (ph) \-- I mean, they\'re first-class individuals
and they\'re leaders at a time that this city needs leadership. And
they\'re doing a great job. But I think we\'ll be fine. I think
taxpayers should be comforted in the fact that we\'re doing all we
possibly can to protect against those abuses.

ZAHN: Because I \-- you know, that came up in a previous administration.
Does it make you sick when you see that numbers (sic)? Because it\'s
basically federal taxpayers underwriting\...

ALLBAUGH: Well\...

ZAHN: \... the building of these buildings in\...

ALLBAUGH: \... it does, but\...

ZAHN: \... L.A.

ALLBAUGH: \... at the same time, Paula, it doesn\'t do any good to point
fingers. We need to be looking forward as opposed to looking backward.
And again, taxpayers need to be comforted in the fact that we\'ve made
some necessary changes, as we should as a government, to take care of
those potential abuses.

ZAHN: What is the single largest challenge confronting FEMA right now as
it tries to get a real fix on what you face? You were saying this
morning that it could take a whole year to get the site\...

ALLBAUGH: It could.

ZAHN: \... cleaned up.

ALLBAUGH: I\'m most worried, again, about those families. You think
about Oklahoma City. It happened six years ago this past April. Families
are still recovering from that tragedy. We have individuals who haven\'t
registered yet. They\'re not wanting to start that closure process. I
want to make sure that they have long-term counseling. We have workers
that live in Queens or in the Bronx, and they\'ve lost their job from
Lower Manhattan. We need to make sure that they get proper counseling,
as well as unemployment benefits. There are just a hodge-podge of
individuals all across New York City and Pennsylvania, you know, at the
Pentagon site, that I still care deeply about insofar as making sure
we\'re doing as \-- what we need to do as FEMA.

ZAHN: Well, you\'ve got a huge job ahead. Thank you for dropping by.

ALLBAUGH: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: We know how busy you are. Good luck.

ALLBAUGH: Good to see you.