Wildland Fire Update 2003

An Eye Towards The Future

**A Telecast Originating**

**from the**

**BLM National Training Center in Phoenix, Arizona**

**May 15, 2003**

This transcript is from the closed-captioning file produced during the
telecast.

It may contain errors and omissions in transcription.

**Announcer:** The national interagency fire center presents live from
the BLM national training center in Phoenix, Arizona, \"Wildland Fire
Update 2003\" An Eye Towards the Future, an interactive telecast on the
challenges and opportunities of this year\'s fire season. And now, Larry
Hamilton.\
\
**L. Hamilton**: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our update on the
2003 fire see and where we might be headed not only in the next few
months but also in the next few years. In this program we\'ll look at
what the Predictive Services Unit at the national interagency fire
center has to say about the upcoming critical months ahead. We\'ll also
hear updates about several vital fire management topics, including a
forecast for the remainder of this year\'s fire season from NIFC\'s
Predictive Services Unit. We also want to talk about management\'s
expectations, cost accountability and the redesigned fire shelter. Some
our aviation issues, the changing role of the fire mission and, of
course, safety. That\'s only a part of what you\'ll hear today. Fire
management is very much different today than it was even a year or two
ago. It\'s a dynamic program with high visibility and we expect the
changes to continue. It\'s important that we not only take care of our
day-to-day business but also that we keep an eye on the future so that
our organizations can anticipate and meet the future needs and demands
that the public places upon all of us. With me today is Kathleen Clarke,
the director of the Bureau of Land Management. Good morning, Kathleen.\
\
**Dir. Clarke:** Good morning, Larry.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Also with us from the BLM headquarters office in
Washington D.C. is our BLM deputy director Fran Cherry. Good morning,
Fran.\
\
**F. Cherry:** Good morning, Larry.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Welcome to Phoenix. Joining us live from Washington
D.C. with the Department of Agriculture is the Forest Service Associate
Chief, Sally Collins. Good morning, Sally.\
\
**S. Collins:** Good morning.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Glad to have you with us this morning. And with Sally
in Washington is my counterpart, Jerry Williams, who is the Forest
Service director of fire aviation management. Good morning to you,
Jerry.\
**\
J. Williams:** Good morning, Larry.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Good to have you with us as well. What better way is
there to see the big picture than to hear from the people who are
helping to draw it up, and that means you. You\'ll have a chance to
participate in the broadcast, and we want you to be actively involved in
this telecast. We\'ve built in time throughout the broadcast to take
your calls and faxes and some of you have been really motivated this
morning because we already have a fax. So that\'s a good sign. If you
have a question, please call us toll-free at\... If you\'re in the
Phoenix area, it would be\... you will be able to Dale those numbers
when we indicate we\'re taking calls. If you would like to fax a
question in, you may do that any time during the broadcast by
calling\.... We will try to get as many of your questions as we can. As
a matter of fact, near the end of our telecast, we\'ll have a general
question-and-answer session where you\'ll have another chance to ask any
further questions you might have. I think that just about takes care of
the housekeeping items. So let\'s get things started by going back to
Sally Collins in Washington D.C. Sally, what are some of your thoughts
as we head into this year\'s fire season?\
\
**S. Collins:** Well, on behalf of the U.S. Forest Service I would
really like to welcome all of you to this broadcast once again. Our
primary purpose today here is to help you in the wildland fire community
make this a safe and successful fire season. So it\'s a pleasure to be
here today with Kathleen Clarke. We deeply value our partnership with
BLM and with the states and with everybody else in the wildland fire
community. None of us can do it alone, especially not today. The Forest
Service is almost a century old and we\'ve seen a lot of fires but not
like the ones we\'re seeing today, at least not in the places we\'re
seeing them. These fires are bigger, they\'re hotter and they\'re more
devastating. Two out of the last three fire seasons have been really
huge and last year we had record-breaking fires in four states and a
fifth came close. So that means the challenges we face are like never
before. So this fire season may not huge and we hope it won\'t be, but
we can\'t live on this kind of hope.

Your responsibility in the wildland fire community is to be prepared for
every challenge. The challenges are first and foremost to human safety.
But they\'re also to homes and they\'re to communities and to all of
those things that we cherish on our public lands. Our obligation is to
protect these values for all Americans, both today and in the years to
come. One final point\... these big fire seasons are driving up our
costs and last year as we well know we borrowed against our future in
order to fight the fires that we faced. We just can\'t keep doing that.
We need to start making different choices about how we fight fires.
We\'ve got to bring our costs under control and I know we can. Last year
you did a fantastic job. You stopped 99% of the fires during initial
attack. Otherwise the fire season

would have been far, far worse. So on behalf of the entire Forest
Service, I thank you once again for your skill, for your dedication, and
for the many sacrifices that you make.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thanks, Sally. We\'ll be back with Sally later in the
program. What we would like to do now is shift to the BLM perspective
and Kathleen, we would like to get your thoughts as we head into the
2003 wildland fire season.\
\
**Dir. Clarke:** I\'d also like to thank all of you for joining us
today. I asked Larry to help set this meeting up some time ago because I
thought it was very important that we communicate with you and that we
hear from you as we move into what may be another very challenging fire
season. Our purpose here today is to really discuss what\'s ahead and to
reinforce the principles that have made the fire program so effective.
We want to ensure that you have everything you need to carry out your
mission. That includes personnel and financial and physician resources.
It certainly includes commitment from management. It includes
coordination and support from all BLM programs and we will be discussing
these in detail in this broadcast. But for now, I simply want to express
my thanks and my admiration for the job you all do.

In all of government, there are very few programs that have such a
direct bearing on the well being and quality of life of our citizens.
What we do affects public health and safety, the security of our \--
safety, the security of communities and the health of our natural
environment. Few programs in all of government can claim the exceptional
level of performance the fire program documents each year, as Sally has
noted. We know that this record of excellence is attained only through
great sacrifice, a sacrifice by those on the fire line, by their family
and their friends, and certainly by their colleagues throughout our
agencies who support them. Again, I want to thank you for your
dedication to this very important mission. And I also want to express my
sincere appreciation to the Forest Service. They are truly great
partners and they are co-sponsors of this broadcast. We appreciate also
the ongoing partnership that we have with them in managing the public
lands and resources. Thank you.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thank you, Kathleen. Next we\'d like to hear from BLM
deputy director Fran Cherry who has some remarks on the integration of
fire and natural resources management. Fran.\
\
**F. Cherry:** Thanks, Larry. Good morning, all. It\'s really nice to be
here and take a couple of minutes of your time to talk to you. I know
the theme of this broadcast is an eye towards the future but for a
moment, I\'d like to go back to the past. I was assigned my first fire
in Utah back in 1968. I worked out of the back of a two-wheel drive
pickup truck with a portable pump. Those were the days before we had had
heard of Nomex, fire shelters or today\'s high-tech gadgets that make
fire suppression work safer and allow us to work smarter than 30 years
ago. Any training we got was strictly on the job. Not long after that
fire in Utah, our first son was born right in the middle of an active
fire season. When he was only 10 days old I shipped out to Alaska to
fight fire. It\'s a good thing I married a very understanding woman.
I\'m happy to report that more than 30 years later, both my son and my
marriage are healthy, and neither show any lingering emotional scars
from my firefighting trip to Alaska. You know, all of us who have spent
time in the firefighting community probably could tell dozens of the
same kinds of stories, in some ways fire management has changed draw mat
in the last decade or two.

In other ways, it\'s not. When the fire call comes, the basics still
apply. You cut line, you spray water, you hope for a break in the
weather, and feel a great sense of teamwork and accomplishment when
it\'s all over. That\'s a great part of our fire tradition. We\'d like
to add one more wrinkle to the \-- to that fire tradition\... we want to
make sure that fire is regarded as an integral part of our management of
natural resources. In most of the country, particularly in the west,
landscapes and resources were and have been shaped by fire. We can\'t
exclude fire. Nor can fire exclude itself. When resource decisions are
made, fire needs to be considered in the mix. Fire must be accounted for
in awful our plans. It must be an equal at the table with other
resources. If we in the Federal firefighting agencies fail to do this,
we\'re risking a continuation of the problems that had their roots in
the past and that will limit our options in the future.

It\'s also critical that line managers and agency administrators are
part of this integration process. In our respective agencies we have
some great stories to tell of successful fire and resource integration.
In each case, it happens where the line officer is aware, involved and
leading. The days of fire \-- fighting fire from the back of a pickup
truck in blue jeans and cowboy boots are over. The days when fire
specialists and resource managers worked in separate worlds are also
over. Let\'s commit to making the true integration of fire and resources
a part of our present and our future. Let\'s do all that we can to make
sure this kind of integration becomes a tradition within all fire
agencies. It\'s the legacy that we are shaping now and the legacy that
we will leave with pride to future generations of firefighters and to
natural resource specialists. Good luck for this fire season. Best
wishes. Be safe out there every minute of every day. Larry, your turn.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thanks, Fran. I\'m really glad your fire career \--
your marriage was able to survive your fire career because pat\'s a
wonderful lady and I wondered how she put up with you for all these
years anyway. It\'s a good story. What we would like to do now is take
you to our briefing center where BLM\'S Rich Ochoa is standing by to
give us a look at what our predictive specialists are forecasting for
this fire season. Rick, how do things compare with where we were a year
ago?\
\
**R. Ochoa:** Well, Larry, things look a lot bet they are year. I want
to share with you the fire season outlook for this summer. First of all,
I want to tell you that this outlook was developed in conjunction with
our predictive services units throughout the different geographic
coordination centers. These units here are comprised of meteorologists
and intel personnel and their mission is to integrate fire, weather,
fire danger and resources and tell fire managers like you and the other
folks where the problem areas are going to be today, this week, this
month and in this case, what does it look like for the season. So with
that, I want to go into the factors that go into our fire season
assessment. First of all, of course, we look at precipitation. What
happened last winter, this spring and so on? Also important is the
timing of the rainfall. Did we get all the rain in the fall? Did we get
it in the spring? In the west here we picked up quite a bit this spring.
But that\'s one of the factors that goes into the assessment. Another
factor is snowpack. And also snow melt is important, too. If we have
snow melt, an early snow melt, that will tend to expose the fuels to a
longer fire season, more drying. So the one good thing this year, it
looks like the snow melt will be delayed in some of the areas like the
northern Rockies and the northwest due to our cool, wet spring here.
Another factor that goes into it is not only the spring rainfall, but
what about June? I mean, we could have a warm, dry June and that will
tend to offset some of the effects of the spring. Just, for instance, I
looked at the weather maps this morning, and it looks like we\'re going
to see a pattern change coming up for the west.

Our spring rainfall is coming to an end and we\'re going to start seeing
warmer temperatures the next couple of weeks. Also, wind is important.
If we have windy springs, that will tend to dry things out in the
southwest. Also, Santa Ana's, east winds are also a factor later on in
the season. Of course, the real wildcard is the dry lightning, and
unfortunately, Larry, we can't predict that this early. Right now, as
far as the monsoon goes, we\'re looking for an early onset of that \--
pardon me, a normal onset, which is typically around the first part of
July. Also besides the weather factors, we look at fuels quite a bit. We
look at the live and dead fuels. We look at green-up dates and so on,
and even information such as on our prescribed burns. When we start
hearing reports of total consumption of large downed material, again,
that\'s another indicator of a potentially active fire season. So with
that, I would like to start looking at some of the weather maps \-- some
of the maps we look at for the fire season.

This first map here shows our snow back as of April 1st in 2003 compared
to 2002. We choose April 1st because that\'s traditionally the greatest
snow depth we receive in an area. This year it\'s bean little delayed in
the northwest because we are picking up more snow here. On the left-hand
side is 2003, the oranges and reds show below normal snowpack, the
greens and blues show above normal, but on the right-hand side is 2002
and, of course, last year, in this area here, the southwest here, we had
a very active fire season, and you can see one of the reasons. Very low
snow pack last year. Places like Colorado had about half their normal
snowpack. They are doing much better; they are here in part due to
pretty wet March there. Look at it this year here. 2003, things looking
much better here. There are some differences, though. Let\'s take a look
up in the northwest here and last year things are looking pretty good
here, especially in eastern Oregon, we saw a lot of greens and blues,
normal to above normal snowpack.

This year note all the red east of the Cascades. Interesting to note in
the Cascades and eastern Oregon we received pretty good rainfall at the
lower elevations, so they\'re growing a pretty good grass crop in that
area. At the higher elevations in the mountains, they are below normal
in their snowpack. Another map that we take a look at is our
precipitation here. This one shows the precipitation since the first of
January. Again, this map here, the greens show wetter than normal
conditions, so we can see that up here in the northwest, northern
Rockies. Pretty good rainfall here this spring. Also here, too, in the
east coast here, we had quite a wet winter there. So that\'s really
eased some of their drought conditions in those areas. Looking up here
to the great lakes area, they had a very dry winter, especially up here
in northern Minnesota. We\'re seeing some fire activity in that area and
that dry area continues over here in through the area around Maine. Ok.
Besides the precipitation for \-- since the first of the year, we also
looked back at the long-term drought. Again, that\'s one of our big
factors and you can see, even though we\'ve had a rather wet spring here
in the northwest, we\'re still suffering from a long-term drought here
in the west. Look at this. This is still reds and yellows, and normally
it takes more than one year to get into a drought, and it\'s going to
take usually more than one season to get out of it here. Also, too, you
can see some dry conditions here lingering in the east coast area.

Our next map here is going to be what the current status of the drought
is, and, again, the heart of the drought is over the great basin and the
interior west. The browns show where the worst areas are. In fact, I
don\'t know if you can see it, but a little area here in southwestern
Wyoming, that\'s probably the driest of all the areas. Those drought
conditions extend up here again to the great lakes area, and then also
up into northern Maine. Looking atlas last there, again, very, very low
snowpack here. We remember that the Iditarod this year, which normally
starts in Anchorage, had to be moved up to Fairbanks, again because of
their low snowpack. So a pretty dry winter for Alaska. Let\'s take a
look at the long-range weather forecasts, and these are provided by the
national weather service. On the left-hand side you can see temperature.
This is May through July in the upper left-hand corner and July through
September. In general we\'re looking for a warmer than normal first part
of the summer out in the southwest and then for the entire summer, July
through September, just above normal temperatures through most of the
United States. Some good news \-- warm spring here for Alaska, but they
should cool off here later on this summer here. Precipitation-wise,
we\'re looking at about normal condition through a good portion of the
area, wetter conditions than normal probably for the next week or so up
in the northwest here and then things should dry out. Same thing for
precipitation later on in the summer, maybe some dryness showing up here
in Oregon and throughout Nevada. Again, that\'s a concern because one of
our areas that we\'re keeping an eye on is eastern Oregon.

Another factor that we\'re looking at, too, is the bug kill. With the
drought, a lot of our trees have been stressed and with that we\'re
seeing a greater development of bug kill and insect damage. This sad
picture here is from the Lake Arrowhead area in the San Bernardino
National Forest in Southern California. Intermixed with all the dieing
trees here are some pretty expensive homes in these areas here. In some
of these areas we\'re seeing about 8 out of every 10 trees that are dead
here. That\'s a developing problem here in the west, as well as other
portions of the east. The bottom line, here\'s what the fire season
looks like for this summer here. Let\'s start off here in the west here.
Again, we are starting fire season in the southwest. We\'re looking at
it here through the Mogollon Rim area and seeing a rapid transition over
the next week or so to higher fire danger in the southwest. Late or in
June, the fire season starts moving up here into the great basin area,
Southern California starts picking up a little bit, although that area
this year looks like it will be delayed a little bit. By mid-July,
we\'re looking at conditions up here through eastern Oregon, again, a
very dry area, and then July and August up here through southwestern
Wyoming and portions in here in Colorado. Just a little note about
Colorado, there\'s quite a difference on the west side, much drier
conditions here.

The snow we had in March affected primarily the front range. So some dry
conditions are continuing out in western Colorado. Alaska here, we can
see again looking at the potential for an active fire season because of
their dry conditions. Same thing up in the great lakes area in Minnesota
and portions of the \-- of the great lakes area, they\'re looking at a
few more weeks of fire season, and then watching them for later on this
fall also with Maine. Some good news in the southeast there, they\'re
looking much better this year. So overall, I would say the fire season
is not going to be as bad as 2000 or 2002, but we\'re definitely looking
at an above average fire season for this year. And I would tell
everybody to watch the weather forecasts, look at your websites on the
different geographic area coordination center sites and you can see some
of the outlooks a little more in depth for your area or you can also go
to the NIFC website at www.nifc.gov. So, Larry, that\'s what we\'re
looking at for the fire season. To let you NOA long with Fran, my wife
has survived my forecasts over the years. So my marriage is still in
fact tact.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** I\'m glad to hear that Rick, we\'re probably saving
lots of money on marriage counseling. This isn\'t the time to be field
shy because we\'re putting those numbers up that you can either dial or
find some buttons you could push that have those numbers on them because
we don\'t want to let Rick off the hook here. You could even fire up
that fax machine and shoot us a fax. Rick, we do have a couple of
questions for you that have come in. The first one is, are there any
indicators at all about the occurrence of lightning later in the year?
That\'s a question that I think you\'ve heard before in past seasons.\
\
**R. Ochoa:** Larry, right now, it\'s a little too early to tell on the
lightning. Typically we can see that out about a week or so ahead of
time. Typically we don\'t get into the lightning season at least in the
west until the monsoon starts kicking in July. We\'ve had a little
lightning the last couple of days in the west, but generally doesn\'t
start until the monsoon, and our initial thoughts right now is kind of a
normal monsoon start.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok. I don\'t think you mentioned El Nino, but we have a
question here for you on El Ni o, and that is, with El Nino fading, are
we returning to a more normal weather pattern in the west?\
\
**R. Ochoa:** Well, Larry, that\'s a tough question. We don\'t really
have normal weather. It\'s made up of the extremes of wetter and cooler
than normal and so on, but, yes, El Ni o is fading. We will see the
effects of that, and that\'s due in part to the wet spring \-- due in
part to El Nino, that\'s going away and so we\'re looking for more
neutral conditions this summer and just a little hint at next winter, we
are looking at the potential of possibly developing LA NINA developing.
For this summer here, we will see minimal effects from El Ni o.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** We have one last question for you, Rick, and it is: how
much participation \-- or precipitation does it take to end the drought
conditions that are prevalent in the west?

**R. Ochoa:** Well, like I said, it usually takes more than one year to
get into a drought and it\'s going to take more than one wet spring to
get out of a drought here. I think we\'re looking at this pattern here
for a few more years until we really get back into a wet cycle. On the
east coast there, they\'re very fortunate that they had quite a bit of
precipitation this winter, so they\'ve eased their drought quite a bit
in those areas.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Rick will be back with us later in the program and as
you can see, he has never had a question he couldn\'t answer. So if you
have a tough question out there, save it and we\'ll give him a shot
later in the program.\
\
**R. Ochoa:** Thanks, Larry.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thank you, Rick. Next, Kathleen, I believe you have
some expectations you want to share about this year\'s fire season.\
\
**Dir. Clarke:** We certainly do have some very concrete expectations
for the fire season. First and foremost is safety. Safety is always
going to be our primary expectation and a great concern. It must become
more than a cliché\' and a box on a checklist. We have to make sure it
is a way of life for all fire personnel, whether you\'re out on the
lines or in the air, in camp or traveling. Despite the inherent risk of
fire management, the only acceptable safety record is no serious
injuries and no fatalities. That record is certainly within our grasp.
We also expect a season of accomplishment. We need to show and we can
show progress on important administration goals. These would include
fuel reduction and safer communities, the healthy forest initiative,
stewardship contracting and restoration and partnerships with local
communities. All of these lead to healthier rangelands, woodlands and
forests. All of these contribute to conditions that allow you to do your
jobs more effectively in a fire environment that can be less dangerous.

Another he can spec \-- another expectation is management support.
Managers at all levels will support the fire program 100%. When the call
goes out for help, the response will be affirmative and immediate.
Agencies administrators and line officers will maintain contact and
close cooperation and we expect accountability. That means
accountability for decisions regarding fire management. For decisions
regarding the costs of fire management activities, and for cost
effective and safe fire program that support our land and resource
management plans. We expect cooperation and support throughout our
agencies. More and more we recognize that interdisciplinary nature of
resource management. Speaking for the BLM, every program within our
mission has a direct stake in the success of the fire program. Every
program and employee should feel a sense of ownership and partnership
with the fire program and a duty to ensure its success. We look forward
to working with you to find those successes this summer and again
encourage you to pursue safety and accountability.\
**\
L. Hamilton:** Thanks, Kathleen for those thoughtful comments.
Appreciate that. Now what we would like to do is go back to Sally
Collins in Washington D.C. and, Sally, what is your perspective from the
Forest Service?\
\
**S. Collins:** Thanks, Larry. I think we at the Forest Service have
three central expectations for this fire season. Our first expectation,
as always, is safety. As leaders in public land management we have an
obligation to take care of the people who take care of the land. Does
that mean we don\'t take risks? No. The question is, what is \-- level
of risk is acceptable? For that you\'ve got to know the level of risks
of the activities that you perform and you\'ve also got to know what you
can do to reduce that level of risk. So for firefighters, its things
like the 10 standard, the learning from past incidents like 30 mile.
Finally, you have to know how to elevate decisions to the appropriate
people at the appropriate level. For example, some decisions a squad
leader might be able to decide but other things might have to go to the
incident commander. We expect you to know all of those things, because
that\'s what managing risk is all about. Our second expectation is cost
effectiveness and you\'ll hear a lot about this today. As I said
earlier, we have to bring our costs under control. I\'d be the first to
say that our system of spend and borrow and repay is broken. We\'re
working hard to get that fixed, but we all know of cases. Of
firefighting waste and as long as Congress sees that waste, they\'ll
say, you fix that first and they\'ll be right. So this year we expect
you to make fire suppression as cost effective as possible.

We expect you to control your costs, to be thrifty and frugal and to use
our limited aviation resources wisely. If we can show the American
people that we have a cost effective operation, then maybe we can get
the system fixed. That\'s why we have a new cost containment action plan
to help line officers keep costs down. Now, the plan sets trigger points
for the approval of line officers when costs exceed a certain amount,
going all the way up to the chief. We expect line officers and incidents
commanders to work closely together in saving costs. If you choose an
alternative other than the lowest cost alternative, you must justify in
that writing and we\'ll valuate incident management teams and area
command teams based on how well they meet those cost objectives. Our
third objective is the one you hear a lot about today and that\'s
improving the long-term ecosystem health of our forests.

Fires will only keep getting bigger and more devastating unless we can
change the condition of our ecosystems. We\'ve got to restore or forests
to something more resembling their historic condition. So for that
we\'ll need restoration treatments on a very large scale. We\'ll also
need more prescribed fire to keep healthy fire adapted ecosystems from
slipping into an unhealthy condition. The national fire plan and the
10-year implementation plan will help us get there. We also have other
initiatives for getting more of the tools we need for long-term
ecosystem health. So let\'s look at this. Safety, cost effectiveness,
ecosystem restoration. If we can accomplish those three this year, then
I\'ll feel like we\'ve had a successful fire season. In closing, I just
want to make one more final comment. I know out there there\'s a lot of
concern about competitive sourcing. We hear it everywhere we go. I fully
understand that. I encourage each one of you to ask a lot of questions
and to stay informed. At the same time, we expect you to stay focused.
If we\'re going to have a successful fire season, we can\'t get
ourselves sidetracked. We have to stay focused on the main issues of
safety, cost effectiveness and ecosystem restoration. Thanks very much,
Larry.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok, thank you, Sally. We do have a fax question in here
and let me throw it out and we\'ll see who wants to take it on. The
question is: Incident management teams are having an increasingly
difficult time filling orders for overhead and people that are
qualified, but they won\'t be released for fire duty. Will forest
supervisors and field office managers be released from targets and make
people available this fire season? Fran or Sally? You want to take a
shot?\
\
**S. Collins:** I would be happy to start with that. It\'s been an issue
every year and we always face it, and what amazes me is how well we
generally respond to those requests, given the multiple priorities we
have. Kathleen said it in her opening comments, we\'ve got to make
resources available. And what we know is that we\'re always going to
struggle with those choices, and yet we know that when it comes to
particularly lives and the kind of resources we\'re protecting in fire
it\'s hard to compete with that. So we\'re really expecting people to
come forward and make those resources available, particularly in those
areas where we\'ve got scarce \-- we have resource scarcity and
difficulty in getting those positions filled. I don\'t know if somebody
else has something they want to add to that. Jerry?\
\
**J. Williams:** No, I think you hit it, Sal. Fundamentally, when the
bell rings, we got to be able to respond. By and large, our folks do
very well in responding. That\'s all we can do, is keep pushing and keep
asking and keep on top of this issue.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Fran, Kathleen?\
\
**F. Cherry:** Let me add a couple more quick remarks here. I think a
consistent message from all of the agencies over the years, as long as
I\'ve been fighting fire and been involved in fire leadership issues,
has been consistent that we will release our folks to contain fires,
particularly when public safety is involved and our interface with the
urban communities and each year people ask the same question over and
over again and we send a consistent message out\... nothing can be more
devastating to the west and the lands we manage than fire. One of the
things that the employees can help by doing is diligently completing
their units whenever they can early in the year so that they can be
released for fire. That would be a help. But we all must recognize that
occasionally there are some time sensitive issues or issues of such
extreme importance that a few people will be held back. That happens
every year in all the agencies, but by and large, we do release our
employees and we expect them to be released to fight the fight fire.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** We had one other question here and I think it\'s an
important question to get out and have folks respond to. It says, we\'re
getting mixed signals from the field. On one hand we hear our primary
mission is fire, but if we\'re needed on other incidents, especially
those involving national security, we suddenly have new priorities. What
is our top priority? Kathleen?\
\
**Dir. Clarke:** I believe as we get into the fire season certainly
it\'s going to be fire and we have been called upon to respond to other
national emergencies and situations in the past year, and that has taxed
our resources, and we have elevated our concerns about that because we
recognize that our fire folks are not seasonal. We have so many tasks
under the national fire plan and the healthy forest initiative that you
have significant roles in addressing. So we are trying to make sure that
the priorities and the demands for your time are well understood by
those who have been diverting you, but as the fire season hits, I think
you can be assured that that will be the highest priority and as Fran
indicated, we will make our teams available to go meet the needs out
there to deal with fire. The interface is growing and expanding.
Certainly the impacts to communities and people are greater than ever
before. But often it isn\'t just the interface that impacts our people.
It\'s watersheds. It may be miles away from communities, but there\'s
much at risk that affects our quality of life. So we need to be ready
and responsive to those calls and it is certainly our commitment to do
so.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Sally, Jerry, do you have anything to add to that?\
\
**F. Cherry:** Good job.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Good job, Kathleen. That\'s what we like to hear from
the Forest Service. All right. We do have a caller on the line, and
it\'s Fritz in Phoenix. Fritz, you\'re on the air.\
\
**Caller:** Ok. Hi, everybody. I had a question regarding the blue
ribbon panel\'s report on the large fixed Wing air tankers. They have a
paragraph in here which states that the panel determined that contractor
personnel flying large air tankers are subject to a lower safety
standard than government personnel flying Federally owned and operated
lead planes and smokejumper aircraft. Further, the level of safety for
both the contractor and aerial firefighting operations is lower than can
be financially justified. So my question is: are we going to see an
increase in funding for the air tanker program?\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Jerry, I think I\'ll bounce that question to you.\
\
**J. Williams:** You know, that\'s a good question. It\'s a difficult
question to answer. This budget winds up competing with every other
budget in government, but clearly, the intention of the blue ribbon
panel was to bring to light this very serious issue with contract
aircraft and the whole mechanism of how we contract those aircraft,
including the pilots. Do they have a less \-- or a lower standard of
safety than in the Forest Service or the BLM? The statistics would seem
to bear that out and I\'m sure that\'s what the blue ribbon panel was
basing that finding and that recommendation on. It\'s our intention to
move more assets and strengthen that program. We\'ve already started
that and we intend to continue that.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** All right. Thanks, Fritz, for calling in.\
\
**Caller:** Thank you.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** What we would like to do now is shift our focus to the
area of cost accountability and we know that the cost of firefighting,
especially on large project fires is coming under more and more
scrutiny. This is a topic we expect to hear more on, not only for this
fire season, but during fire seasons to come. To kick off that
discussion, let\'s go back to Washington D.C. again and hear from Jerry
Williams from the Forest Service. Jerry?\
\
**J. Williams:** Thank you, Larry. I appreciate the opportunity to
participate in this broadcast. Let me follow up a little more on Sally
Collins\' remarks about cost containment. As Sally mentioned, we in the
wildland fire management business are under more scrutiny than ever
before regarding our suppression costs. There are two schools of thought
that seem to dominate the approaches to this issue. The first is that
our strategies are somehow flawed. The second is that over accumulated
fuels is really the fundamental problem. The main reason our fires are
hotter and larger these days is due to that fuels buildup. The large
firefight in this country is going to be won or lost on the fuels front.
But even so, we\'ve got to pay attention to our suppression priorities,
our tactics and oversight. Next to fuels treatment, maintaining strong
initial attack capability is our best tool against large fire costs.
When a fire escapes, though, and becomes large, we need to have the
means in place to contain costs. Only one percent of our wildfires are
accounting for over 80% of our total suppression expenditures.

Along with the Department of Interior agencies and the national
association of state foresters, we\'ve developed a large fire cost
reduction plan that the chief, the BLM Director and our state foresters
expect us to implement now. It\'s very important that you read the
action plan and understand your responsibilities. The chief and the
director support the cost containment action plan and have communicated
that clearly to the regional foresters and the State Directors. As Sally
told you, the plan specifically addresses the increased expectations of
agency line officers. There are also more expectations of incident
commanders in monitoring suppression costs. The action plan sets trigger
points for agency line officer approval when costs exceed a certain
amount going all the way up to the chief and director level. Line
officers and the incident commanders are expected to work more closely
in developing cost-saving objectives in the delegation of authority. A
least cost alternative is designed to display the values at risk.
Additional oversight and assistance is provided through the assignment
of an incident business advisor to all type I incidents and type II
incidents with high cost potential. The incident business advisors are
going to report directly to agency line officers.

This summer, we are piloting realtime cost accounting so we\'ll always
know whether we are \-- where we are with that money and can make
decisions accordingly. This emphasis on current cost expenditures will
help our credibility as we look towards future funding requests. The
action plan has us change our thinking on the wildland fire situation
analysis, or WFSA and raise it from a paper work exercise to a living,
guiding document. The large fire cost reduction action plan also
addresses our culture in firefighting and asks us to reexamine the ways
we\'ve always fought fire. For example, with the reduced number of air
tankers and the fact that aviation firefighting costs have doubled since
2000, we need to think hard about our reflexive decisions in ordering
air tanker support, especially on a large fire when using an air tanker
there reduces initial attack or extended attack cape bill elsewhere. We
also need to think twice about night operations. Maybe look at using
them when it\'s less dangerous at night than during the day under
extreme burning conditions. The large fire cost reduction plan does not
tell us to compromise safety or work harder. It asks us to think through
our choices, weigh the risks, benefits and values at stake. I have
mentioned we believe in aggressive fuels program is our most effective
means of reducing large fire suppression costs and protecting community
values and restoring forest held. \-- health and improving firefighter
safety. Let me add to that. In fire dependent ecosystems, the use of
prescribed fire at ecologically appropriate intensities is an essential
means of restoring overall forest health conditions. In many places,
especially in condition class III we first got to use some kind of
mechanical treatment to take a little heat out of the woods.

Prescribed fire intensities have got to fit the fire regime. With more
wildland fire management plans being completed around country, we can
also more fully utilize the wildland fire use fires in those specific
situations where they\'ll benefit the resource. Some of our wild lands
are so overstocked, however, that they aren\'t appropriate for this
tool. So we\'ve got to take a close look at the dynamics of the fire
regime involved before making the wildland fire use decision. Under the
right circumstances, this management tool can provide both suppression
cost savings and fuel treatment. When you\'re called to manage a
wildland use incident, understand how important they are to the larger
picture of ecosystem health. I know we\'ve got a lot of things to do all
at once and it\'s all occurring in a consistently changing environment
and I appreciate that there\'s really no more off-season. During the
winter of 2000, we organized the national fire plan. In 2001, we
responded to our partners\' call for help after September 11th. The
winter and spring of 2002, the wildland fire agencies provided for the
support needs and overhead teams and crews and aviation assets to meet
the national priorities of the Columbia shuttle. And we assisted AFIS in
organizing around incident command in effectively inspect for eradicate
exotic Newcastle disease and that we sent some our finest to Australia
to gladly reciprocate for the help they have given us in the past few
years.

Many of you are also stepping up to the plate to be the teachers we need
for training firefighters in new skills. That consumes your time and
energy, but the payoff to our workforce and its safety is huge. I\'m
especially proud that together our agencies are building strong
relationships with rural and volunteer firefighters. After our emergency
response efforts on September 11th, we even assisted the New York City
fire department when they requested training on the incident command
system. That kind of outreach proves our incident management teams and
fire specialists are recognized as among the best and the brightest.
Firefighting professionals have responded in our country\'s time of need
to many new kinds of incidents. We sometimes arrive without PULASKI or
parachute, but regardless of the assignment, you have always exhibited
compassion, organization and effort. You\'ve truly worked outside the
box and done an outstanding job there. I know Larry is going to talk
more about our increasing role in all-risk incidents and homeland
security a little later in the program. Let me switch gears and talk a
little bit about aviation.

We\'re all aware that fire management agencies have chosen not to renew
contracts on nine heavy air tankers, and we\'ve got another reduction in
our lead plane fleet. The blue ribbon panel, which was mentioned a
minute ago, on aerial firefighting created a blueprint to the future,
and it includes renewing our commitment to refuse unacceptable aviation
risks, just like we would on the ground. The national group is going to
be more proactive in managing the air tanker fleet. We spent \$500
million last year on just four large fires, and aviation was a big part
of those costs. Air tankers are among our best tools on initial attack
and extended attack fires. The MAC group will reinforce their use for
those fires only, unless life is at risk. Just as we incorporated our
lessons learned from the tragedy of the 30 mile fire, our aviation
program is working towards establishing a quality assurance program on
the heels of a deadly 2002 western fire season. This group is taking
steps to see that we achieve excellence in aviator and equipment safety
and effectiveness and consistent standards of training and performance.
Even one is too many and we lost too many people last year in aviation
accidents.

Finally, I want to let you know that the wildland fire agency
leadership, myself, Larry and others are working hard to find common
ground in developing and delivering one Federal fire management policy
and an implementation plan that goes with it. Together we believe we can
introduce safer protocols for extended attack operations. We also
believe that we can clarify our roles in interacting with our partners
across jurisdictions, especially at the interface and improve our tools
and techniques in managing fire in the ecosystem at landscape scales.
And create fire management plans that use the latest templates and
software for consistency and standardization. Like the successes we had
in bringing an interagency emphasis to the red book, we\'re tackling
these challenging operational issues with a cooperative spirit. As we
head towards the future, I know it sometimes feels like this ship can\'t
turn fast enough to respond to the changing environment, but it is
turning, and it\'s turning for the better. It\'s because we have the
best wildland firefighters and managers in the world. We\'re going to
adapt to cost-savings techniques. We\'re going to more aggressively move
the fuels program. And we\'re going to continue to assist our partners
by building relationships and lending a hand whenever we can. Despite
these changes and these new jobs, let\'s stay anchored to our values.
Safety comes first on every fire every time. And we\'re stronger as a
team. Part of being a team is respect for one another on the fire line
and in the office. Thank you. Thank you all for your doing.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thank you, Jerry. I have actually one of your favorite
questions here, Jerry, and you may want to give it to Sally. I don\'t
know. That will be your call. The question is: where did the money come
from for the Forest Service to meet 80% of the needs of all risk
incidents for crews and overhead on the Columbia material recovery and
response to in a castle disease? Are we going to be dipping into other
area funds again this year for suppression?\
\
**J. Williams:** Well, we hope we\'re not dipping into funds like we\'ve
had to in the past. The money that came out of the Forest Service budget
to support other all-risk assignments came out of our regular programs.
We\'re hoping that gets reimbursed, and to some extent I believe some of
it already has been. But it kind of goes back to this business of having
an understanding of how our swirled changing towards all risk and how
we\'ve got to get busy on figuring out ways, how we\'re going to be more
effective, not only in providing for all risk, but how are we going to
be effective in managing the fiscal component of all risk.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok, thank you, Jerry. What we\'d like to do now is move
on to our next topic, which is going to be the redesigned fire shelters.
We have Leslie Anderson in the forest services Missoula technology &
development center in Montana and she prepared a video for us which
highlights some of the features of the new shelters and how you can
order them. So let\'s take a look at that video.\
\
**L. Anderson:** Hi. I\'m Leslie Anderson and I\'ve been asked to give a
short update on the status of the new generation fire shelter. The
Federal Fire and Aviation leadership council selected a new design in
June 2002. Since then, NTCD has worked closely with the general services
administration who contracts for the manufacture of the new shelter. The
first shipments of the new shelter had have made their way to the GSA
cache and they will continue to be manufactured until sufficient
shelters are available. I\'ll have some ordering information for you in
a moment. Please have your pencils ready. The new generation shelter was
developed and tested by the Missoula Technology & Development Center
over a two-and-a-half year period MTCD worked with contractors first to
develop tests and then to test many new shelter materials and designs.
We sought a shelter that maintained protection from radiant heat that
the older shelter design offered but provided improved protection in
direct flame. We also considered strength, durability, flammability,
potential toxicity, weight and bulk.

The new shelter has a shape that is different from the older design. It
is now shaped like a half cylinder with rounded ends. The new shelter
weighs 4.2 pounds compared to about 3.4 pounds for the older design. The
carrying case is blue with a yellow pull strap. Like its President is
zestier the new shelter should be carried inside the hard plastic liner.
The new hard plastic liner is 1 and a quarter inches deeper than the old
liner. This means the shelter will not fit into fire shelter sleeves
part of many field backs. MTCD released a tech tip that includes a
simple method for retrofitting your pack. It also includes more detailed
information about the shelter testing, design and performance. The tech
tip is titled new generation fire shell shelter developed for wildland
firefighters. It\'s available at the MTCD website
fsweb.mtdc.wo.fs.fed.us. The new shelter can be ordered from the GSA
wildfire equipment catalog. For the upcoming fire season its recommended
agencies procure the new shelter for initial attack forces only,
including smoke chasers \-- engine crews, smoke jumpers and hotshot
crews. It\'s also recommended geographic areas with the first predicted
active fire season order first. Initially the shelter will be available
only as a complete unit with the carrying case and hard plastic liner.

Eventually all the components will be sold individually. The cost of the
complete unit is \$256.75. Here\'s some important ordering information.
When you place your order for the new shelter through GSA you\'ll have
to put the characters S06, in the required delivery date field on the
requisition form. If there is a backlog of orders and you haven\'t put
the required characters in this field, your order might be canceled.
Questions concerning the ordering procedures should be directed to GSA
at\... Firefighters must not use the new generation fire shell until
they have completed and documented all necessary training. At a minimum,
training should include reading the new training pamphlet, viewing the
new video or DVD and practicing deemployments with the new practice fire
shelter. The video, DVD D pamphlet are all titled the new generation
fire shelter. The pamphlet and video are available from the PMS system
in Boise. The DVD will be on the shelf shortly. The pamphlet is also
posted on the NWGC website at www.nwgc.gov. The practice fire shelter
will be available from GSA in June. The cost of a complete practice
shelter unit is \$65.23. We realize that some of our state and local
partners will be phasing the new shelter in slowly due to the increase
in costs. The older style fire shelter still meets all agency
requirements and will remain in the system for approximately five years.
This shelter still provides good protection as long as flame contact is
minimized. The older style will be available until current stocks have
been depleted and all training materials will be available until the
shelter is declared obsolete and removed from service. Finally,
precaution, the new generation fire shelter provides distinctly improved
protection from radiant heat and direct flame. But it doesn\'t guarantee
your safety. Carrying a new fire shelter an excuse to take risks on the
fire line. The firefighters\' highest priority is still to avoid
situations that can lead to entrapment.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok. At this point we\'re going to take about a
10-minute break and when we come back we\'re going to talk about the
changing role of the fire mission, aviation and most importantly,
safety. We\'ll also take more of your questions. So there\'s a lot more
coming up and we\'ll see you in a few minutes.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Welcome back to our update on the 2003 wildland fire
season. I understand that we had Leslie on the phone earlier. Is she
still with us?\
\
**L. Anderson:** I\'m here.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** How you doing?\
\
**L. Anderson:** Fine.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** We enjoyed the video. That was an outstanding video. We
did have a question for you. Are you good for a question?\
\
**L. Anderson:** You bet.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** The question was: what happens next? Or is this the
fire shelter, the one we just saw, will that be the one we see for the
next 20 years?\
\
**L. Anderson:** Larry, I think that one of the most important things
that occurred in this redevelopment project was the development of tests
that \-- so that now we\'re able to more reliably test and compare
shelters and shelter materials. So I think that we\'re going to be able
to do that as technology improves and make these minor adjustments and
changes as we have new materials. I think that we will see some changes
over the years.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok. That\'s good to hear. We really appreciate the work
you\'ve done on this. You\'ve solved a real critical problem for us, and
you\'ve just done a super job. Thank you very much, Leslie. I understand
you\'ll be with us later in the program if we have some other questions,
is that correct?\
\
**L. Anderson:** I will. I\'ll stand by.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thank you very much. What we would like to do to kick
things off for the second half is talk about aviation, and with us now
in our briefing center is Mike Rotonda with the Forest Service, and
Kevin Hamilton, who is no relationship to me, with the Bureau of Land
Management. So, Mike and Kevin, are you there?\
\
**M. Rotonda:** Yes, we are, Larry. Good morning, my name is Mike
Rotonda and I\'m here at the request of Tony Kern, the national aviation
officer for the Forest Service and Kevin and I will be discussing some
of the aviation issues in light of what happened last year. As Jerry
Williams just told you before the break, we did not have a good year for
Forest Service aviation last year. In 2002, there were 13 accidents for
the Forest Service. There were six fatalities associated with those 13
accidents. We all saw the air tanker crash in California that was
videotaped by the news crew over and over again. We lost three
firefighters in that crash. A month later there was an air tanker crash
in Colorado where we lost two more aerial firefighters and shortly after
that was the helicopter crash where we lost another pilot. A total of 6
fatalities and we still to this day mourn their loss. It was such a
serious situation that the Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management
Washington Office convened the blue ribbon panel that Jerry referred to
and that one of the earlier callers asked about. This was an independent
panel of experts, external to the Forest Service and BLM, and they were
tasked with looking at our programs objectively and giving us a
blueprint for the future.

Later in this broadcast, Dennis Hulbert will be talking more in depth
about the blue ribbon panel. I will just focus on one of the areas,
which is the enhanced air tanker inspection program. Two of the air
tanker crashes last year were inflight structural failures, catastrophic
failures, and that is serious enough to where the Forest Service and the
BLM decided to really enhance our inspection program for the air
tankers. That is a three-phase program. The first phase is going on this
year in 2003 where SANDIA national laboratories in Albuquerque which has
an aging aircraft program in conjunction with the FAA was tasked in
developing inspection criteria based on each make and model of the
aircraft we continue to fly today. The labs are in the process of
developing that as we speak for different makes and models. At that
point the inspection criteria is forwarded to the Federal aviation
administration for review. Then the Forest Service passes it to the
operators for compliance before agency approval for use. At this point
we already have eight air tankers inspected and carded as we speak
today. I heard from the Washington Office this morning that five more
will be expected in the next few weeks. So we\'re on track to inspect
under this enhanced inspection program a number of air tankers.

The second phase of this enhanced inspection program will take place in
2004 next year. We will add some engineering analysis based on flight
data recorders in the air tankers to give us a better picture of what
stresses they go through in the fire environment. The third and final
phase of the enhanced in spec shun program is in the year 2005 where we
will be asking the operators to acquire an amended type certificate from
the FAA. But we must remember that this is the short-term fix. This will
not be the lodge-term solution. The long-term solution would be to try
to find a way to get a new more modern air fleet for our air tanker
program. We know this is tough for the fire community because there will
be less air tankers available but we felt like we had to take this step
because of the seriousness of the situation and we know that safety is
our core value and we need to stick with that. In order to talk about
mitigation factors, I\'m going to turn it over to Kevin Hamilton to talk
about this year\'s fire season. Kevin?\
\
**K. Hamilton:** Thanks, Mike. Someways to compensate for a reduced air
tanker fleet involve simply reemphasizing existing policy. For instance,
strategic deployment of the air tanker fleet will be managed by the
national coordination center with guidance by the national multi-agency
coordinating group. Mostly in planning levels 4 and 5. This is going to
be evaluated daily through conference calls with geographical areas. The
decisions will be based on projected fire danger levels, fire activity
in certain areas and predictive services intelligence that Rick talked
about earlier. I want to emphasize that the primary mission for air
tankers is initial attack and extended attack fire support. This is not
a new policy. But this should be emphasized at all levels of the
organization. Assignment of air tankers to large fire support will be on
a case-by-case basis and only when initial attack and extended attack
objectives have been met.

The following criteria will be used to prioritize air tanker assignments
and must be identified with all large fire air tanker requests. Imminent
threat to human life, including occupied structures, is the first
criteria. Number two is imminent threat to communities, infrastructure,
and commercial businesses. Number three is threats to other structures
and improvements such as seasonal homes and cabins. Number four is
threats to natural resources. And number five is threat to low-value
structures. Incident commanders should only request air tankers when
they can be used effectively in conjunction with ground forces and only
to meet strategic management objectives. Again, this is not a new
concept. But it must be embraced by land managers, fire management
officers and incident commanders and should be established in the
incident planning documents. Firefighting agencies are adding 15
exclusive use single-engine air tanker contracts for this summer. In
addition, more single-engine air tankers have been made available for
call when needed. Although these aircraft can\'t replace the heavy air
tankers, this highly mobile resource will be pre-positioned as
appropriate to improve initial attack coverage. Use of heavy helicopters
will likely increase for both initial attack and large fire support. The
use of portable retardant plants on large fires in conjunction with
helicopters will increase. This provides an effective alternative to
large air tankers and frees up the air tankers for initial attack. Thank
you. Back to Larry.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok. Thanks, Mike and Kevin. We do have a fax question
for you here. It starts with the only italicized sentence in the entire
blue ribbon\'s panel report is as follows: possibly the single largest
challenge now facing leaders of these Federal agencies is to foster
cooperation and collaboration among working level staffs, contractors
and states to raise the standards of aerial wildfire fighting in the
United States. The question is, what has been done and what is planned
to include line air crews

in the problem solving and decision making process as per the
recommendation of the blue ribbon panel?\
\
**M. Rotonda:** I\'ll take that one. We realize that. We read the report
thoroughly and realized that was the only part really emphasized
although the whole report tells us a number of things about our program.
One thing that\'s been done in the past two months was there was a
roundtable discussion with industry and leaders of Forest Service and
BLM held in Sacramento, California, back in March. That was the first
time we ever sat down and tackled these hard issues. We know that there
will be more of those in the future and we also know that the national
aerial firefighting academy will be reemphasized and we will bring in
contractors and aviation management personnel to help solve our
problems. As was said earlier, no one group or one individual can do
this alone. We have to work together as a team.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok. Kevin, we\'ve got a question here for you, and
it\'s: what is the safety record of single-engine air tankers and are we
taking a bigger chance by putting more of them in the air this fire
season?\
\
**K. Hamilton:** Actually, the safety record for single-engine air
tankers has been quite good. From 1984 until the present there has been
five accidents involving single-engine air tankers, and of those five,
there have been no fatalities and no serious injuries. So it\'s quite
good. We\'re adding to the fleet. This does increase complexity,
especially in the airspace over the incident. So there is going to be an
increased workload by aerial supervisors, as well as increased
logistical support and an increased workload for dispatch as well.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok, thanks, Kevin. Thank you, Mike. Well, we hope
you\'ve enjoyed our broadcast to this point and learned a few things
that will help you on the job. That\'s really our purpose, is to help
you become more aware or efficient or better prepared for what you do
each day. The sub theme of this telecast is \"an eye toward the
future.\" You probably know that we comfortably could call our fire
mission ten years ago is changing rapidly and that\'s for several
reasons. We all recognize that we live in a different world today than
we did before September 11th of 2001. The need has skyrocketed for
specialized skills and expertise that are commonly found in the fire
community. Yes, it\'s tragic that our experience in incident management
is needed in these new ways, but I think it\'s also a tribute to our
training, skills and knowledge that a nation is ready to turn to us in a
time of need. Already this year we\'ve had three opportunities to help
in non-traditional ways.

First was assisting Australia with its worst fire season in 60 years.
Also helping to control the outbreak of the exotic Newcastle disease and
also providing a tremendous source of help to the Columbia recovery
mission. I think we can expect more of these assignments. They\'re
becoming typical of the day and the age that we live in and the widening
respect for our capabilities. Yes, we still have our primary mission,
even with the changes in the world, we are not placing less value on
protecting lives, property and resources from wildland fire. In all of
the mix that still remains, our main purpose and responsibility, but
it\'s obvious that should a national or enter emergency arise, we will
respond. On March 1st of this year, President Bush created the
Department of Homeland Security. This brought together 22 Federal
agencies and 170,000 employees. Just prior to creation of the new
department, President Bush signed the homeland security presidential
directive, which enhances the ability of our country to manage domestic
incidents. It does so by establishing a single, comprehensive national
incident management system, or NMS and \-- NIMS. The Department of
Homeland Security is responsible for bringing awful these moving parts
together. How the language in the presidential directive is interpreted
and implemented could have wide-ranging and long-lasting effects on the
Bureau of Land Management. The Forest Service and other agencies that
use the incident command system as well. What comes next? Well, I don\'t
think we quite know that yet. We know we\'re on the brink of change, but
just what those changes are is still unclear at present. While we\'re
wrestling with some difficult questions at the highest agency and
departmental levels, one thing is clear\... with an eye toward the
future we need to develop policy that will guide us through whatever
comes our way.

There are steps we can take now to help us be better prepared for what
the future brings. We need to take inventory. We need to precisely
determine what capabilities we have and what we need and how to make up
the difference. I think we all recognize that a gap exists, but to look
at how we can share our mission and train other responders, such as city
and rural fire departments and perhaps even those in Federal agencies
without a fire management mission. We need to work through the
administrative issues connected with all risk assignments. Post-9/11
activities caused the department to absorb more than a million dollars
out of resources and fire programs last year. The shuttle recovery
response now has eight different project numbers just for the Bureau of
Land Management. Our field operations are often only as effective as our
administrative capabilities. We need to examine how we can enhance the
voluntary militia, which continues to make up the backbone of our
overhead support. We need to figure out how we can strengthen the ma in
face of increasing workloads back at home. So those left behind are not
overwhelmed.

We need to develop a sound policy how we allocate our resources for
missions that are outside our fire responsibilities. We\'ve already
experience add drain of financial re to support the Columbia recovery
effort and exotic Newcastle disease this year and we worry physical and
emotional fatigue will become a problem later in the season for those
who have already been sent out for weeks out all-risk assignments. With
an eye on the future, we need to develop policies and practices that
make the best use of our expertise and provide the greatest service to
the public while not leaving behind our day-to-day mission. And who
knows what might be around the next bend? Unforeseen and unanticipated.
An act or incident can that change what we do in ways that are presently
incalculable. I would like to have answers for you today in black and
white, but as I said, we\'re not quite there yet. These and other policy
matters are high priority topics for the wild land fire leadership
council. Of which both the Forest Service chief and the BLM Director are
members. In the interim we\'ll follow our guiding principles, put our
experience to work and do the best we can, whatever the cause or
assignment may be. That\'s what\'s earned us our good reputation. It\'s
what will continue the tradition of helping one another in the future.
We have a couple minutes for questions from you on these new priorities.
I can\'t guarantee a firm answer, but we can see how far we get. I think
we have a question on the phone. No? That\'s an aviation question and so
we\'re going to wait.

So the other participants don\'t feel like I\'ve been picking on them, I
do have a question for myself and so I\'ll ask this question, and
hopefully I\'ll get the answer right, and we\'ll see. It\'s a question
that\'s been asked of me on several different occasions. The question
is: can you clarify the relationship between the Department of Homeland
Security and the Federal fire agencies and will NIFC, and I love this
question, for example, ever become part of the Department of Homeland
Security? Well, the first part of that question, I think, is already
demonstrated what\'s occurred at the national interagency fire center
and that is this year we have FEMA \-- a FEMA represented at NIFC with a
full-time employee and this is going to be critical to us as we come up
with a national incident management system and where we work closer with
FEMA on all-risk type of situations. So we continue to have the seamless
interagency experience and challenges at NIFC and we\'re getting more
capability to do that. As far as whether we would ever become part of
the Department of Homeland Security, that would be something that
Congress or the President of the United States would have to determine.
So that might happen, that might not. We can wait and see. I guess what
I\'d liked to next is move onto our next area, which is safety, and with
the expanding role of our mission, safety is more important than ever,
for both our full-time and part-time workforce. To that lead our
discussion on safety we\'re going to go back to our briefing center
where we have BLM\'s Michelle Ryerson-Grett and Dennis Hulbert with the
Forest Service. Michelle and Dennis, welcome.\
\
**M. Ryerson-Grett:** Thank you, Larry. I want to take the few minutes I
have today to talk to you about safety on the ground and I\'m going to
emphasize some of the areas that Kathleen and Sally mentioned earlier. I
know probably some of you are thinking, oh, no, not another discussion
that safety is our number one priority. But please stay with me here. It
never hurts to talk about safety. The messages that we hear at meetings,
in the field and maybe even in this telecast, could help avoid an
accident, prevent an injury, or even save a life. It always hurts us as
an organization and as a fire community if an incident occurs and
someone is injured or there\'s a fatality. Just days ago there was a
fire shelter deployment that occurred here in this region. News like
that concerns us all. In the last few years, we\'ve been noticing a new
trend. Our accident rate on the fire line in the hire hazardous
situations is actually doing pretty good. However, the same can\'t be
said for outside of the fire line.

We\'ve been noticing a trend in the BLM fire program that almost half of
our accidents are occurring outside the fire line and this trend seems
to be occurring in the Forest Service as well. Accidents are occurring
in fire camps, wareyards, warehouses, during physical training, during
project work, and en route to and from fires. We need to change this.
We\'re concerned about people who are letting their guard down, and we
need to be reminded before we go out to the field to do anything that
our situational awareness should never take a break. Just a little more
effort in this area will have big dividends. We know \-- we now have
more tools available to us to help us stay safe. We have our safe-net
reporting system. It\'s an easy-to-use system to report unsafe practices
or conditions. It is now three years old and giving a voice to all fire
personnel. We have \"six minutes for safety\" which is a training tool
provided on a daily basis that addresses the high-risk, low-frequent
situations that historically get our people into trouble. We have our
wildland fire safety training refresher website which provides a
resource to assist you in conducting your annual fire safety training. I
encourage you to utilize all of these tools available to you right at
your fingertips at the NIFC website. Along with the tools available to
you, I also want to mention the new NWCG work risk guidelines and length
of commitment standards. These are stated in the April 11th, 2003,
memorandum. The BLM and the Forest Service have made these guidelines
and standards interim policy for the 2003 fire season. Please become
familiar with these new guidelines, and the key point to remember are
that these are minimum standards, and each individual and crew needs to
be evaluated on a case-by-case basis and may need more rests or
additional days off than what the guidelines specify.

All of these tools and standards, plus many more, are helping us get the
word out. The valuable additions to our safety program. But we need to
remember the principles that are still in effect. Firefighter safety
comes first on every fire, every time. The 10 standard firefighting
orders, revised this year to follow a more meaningful and logical order.
We need to recognize and mitigate for the 18 situations that shout
\"watch out.\" Every firefighter has the right to a safe assignment. And
finally, every line officer, every fire manager, every supervisor, and
every firefighter is responsible to ensure that established safe
practices are known and observed. If something doesn\'t seem right, then
let\'s do something about it. Now I want to briefly discuss risk
management. Risk management is a key to safe operations. The interagency
standards for fire and fire aviation operations 2003 handbook provides
information about the risk management process, as does the incident
response pocket guide.

These are must-read documents for all firefighters overhead and line
officers. It simply comes down to this\... you\'ll be safer and so will
the people you are responsible for if you follow the five-step risk
management process, which identifies the hazards, manages the risks to
an acceptable level. Fire suppression is a high-risk operation, however,
we have proven it can be done safely without incident or accident over
thousands of times and by utilizing the risk management process we can
continue successful and safe operations. As Kathleen and Sally had
talked about, safety is our number one priority. I hope this does not
come off as a cliché\' or ring hollow to you. I also hope that safety is
more than a priority. It is fully integrated into everything that we do
and that you cultivate our safety culture. Ultimately we judge the
success of our fire program not by the number of fires suppressed or the
acres burned but by our safety record. With that in mind, let\'s hope
that the 2003 fire season is the most successful ever. Thank you and
I\'ll turn it over to Dennis, who is going to talk about aviation
safety.

**D. Hulbert:** Thank you, Michelle. Over the years we are well aware
that we\'ve struggled with aviation safety. We have taken each accident
and treated it as lessons learned. From that we have put in policies to
prevent similar recurrences but despite the measures, the Forest Service
has struggled to further reduce its accident rate. Let\'s look at our
past history and see where we\'ve been with our aviation history. As you
can see over the years, we\'ve had a series of peaks and valleys. About
every three to six years we\'ve gone up and down in that rate but with a
continually downward trend. As talked about earlier by Mike and others,
this last year has been a bad year for the Forest Service and caused us
to take a new look at what we\'ve done. Another thing I want to cover is
over the history, since the conception of our air tanker program, we
have experienced two fatalities a year. That\'s 136 fatalities since we
started this program. It took last year\'s two aircraft accidents being
on film to finally raise that serious issue to the attention of upper
management and to our public, and which has been discussed earlier
brought on the blue ribbon panel report. Most of us are looking at the
blue ribbon panel report as refreshingly honest but some very, very
serious issues have come out of that, and we as land managers and
aviation managers need to realize some very much needed changes is about
to take place.

I realize most of you have probably already read this report, but I
would like to go over eight of the findings so we can look where we\'ve
been in order to keep an eye for the future. Let\'s start off with
safety. The blue ribbon panel report states safety, the safety record of
fixed Wing aircraft and helicopters used in wildland fire management is
unacceptable. New environment, new risks. Wildland firefighting has
grown to a level of importance that warrants continued attention of our
national leaders. Aircraft \-- under the current system of aircraft
certification, contracting and operations, key elements of aerial
wildland firefighting fleet is unsustainable. Mission: the variety of
missions, philosophies and clear standards of Federal land management
agencies creates a mission muddle that seriously compromises the safety
and effectiveness of aviation in wildland fire management. Cultural,
organizational structure and management is ill suited to conduct safe
and effective operations in the current environment. Under
certification: the Federal Aviation Administration puts aside any
responsibility to ensure continued airworthiness of public use aircraft.
Contracts: government contracts for air tankers and helicopter fire
management services do not adequately recognize the business and
operational realities of aircraft limitations. And lastly under
training: training is underfunded and inadequately, specifically for
helicopters, air tankers and large fixed Wing operations.

Folks, these are very serious issues and we need to take them serious.
We\'re just getting started in the input of how to deal with these
things, and to be honest with you, a lot of us are pretty much
overwhelmed. It\'s going to take a real concerted effort, but already
we\'ve seen the reduction every our air tanker fleet, the C-130s, and
the PB4Ys will no longer be used. A downloading of weight will be taken
on this year. New inspection standards as Mike talked about earlier in
place and further going to improve our safety record. We\'re also \--
have limited the time life of our Baron in the Forest Service lead
program and we\'re down to one Baron per region and two in region 6.
We\'re making serious looks and efforts in our aviation prevention
systems taking advantage of website and information. In other words,
data analysis, safety alerts, technical bulletins are all going to be
more available to you in the field as users and we encourage you to use
those aviation websites and safety sites with this information. The one
program that the blue ribbon pointed out and we believe is world class
is our safeCOM system. We want to encourage the field to use that. It\'s
the lifeline for safety managers to know what\'s going on in the field.
We\'re proud of and that we ask you to continually use those in your
programs. Under training systems, the interagency aviation training
program with the interior and the Forest Service is being \-- new life
is breathed into that. We encourage the field users to go to an ACE,
aviation conference and expo, and take advantage of online training. Of
lessons learned for aviation safety program somebodying established out
every boys ee and we need to continue to make strives to make that grow.
Also we\'re in the process of developing an aerial simulation.

We\'re going to take advantage of computer sciences and games and try to
create a real live simulation in a classroom where we can train pilots,
air attack groups, supervisors and also try to bring in our contractors
into this fold so they also can be trained in this academy. But I think,
and this is brought out earlier, our biggest challenge is our culture. I
look upon the fact that we have 11 less air tankers as a blessing and
not a curse. If it forces fire managers to better utilize their
aircraft, not only will we re risks, but we\' also contribute to cost
effectiveness issues. I believe gone are the days of painting fire re
tar didn\'t lines 5 miles between the fire and the ocean or dropping
them at 9,000 where we know they\'re not effective or mopping up with
large helicopters. We need to rethink the process of where we have been.
This blue ribbon panel report is serious and we have a lot of work to do
and we\'re just beginning, but if we focus on the basic, fight fire
based on fire behavior and not the convenience of the resource being
there, I think we will go a long way. So let\'s have a safe summer. If
we crash one more air tanker, we probably won\'t even have a program. So
we all need to buckle down and do the best we can. Thank you very much,
and back to you, Larry.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thanks, Dennis. Thanks, Michelle. We do have a question
for you and that question is: what hazards do firefighters need to pay
special attention to this year? So if we send Fran Cherry out on the
fire line this year, what should he be looking out for?\
\
**M. Ryerson-Grett:** Larry, I have a couple comments for that. I think
this year based on the predictive services intelligence that Rick
provided us, we\'re going to see an increase in the fine flashy fuels,
more so than we did last year, and fire behavior in that fuel type gives
little time for reaction for firefighters. So I think we need to be
prepared and have our safety contingencies in place. Also we\'re going
to see this continued drought, which will also affect fire behavior for
this year. So once again, heads up and let\'s be prepared.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok. We did have a call but they disappeared. So maybe
they\'ll call back. So what we would like to do at this point and we\'d
like to expand our question and answer dialogue beyond safety to talk
with you about anything we have talked about today. So if you have a
question or a comment for us, please give us a call or send us a fax.
Again, our toll-free number\.... We\'ll take as many of your questions
in the time remaining and to respond to your questions we have our full
cadre of fire managers and specialists available. In addition to myself,
we have BLM Director Kathleen Clarke,

Deputy Director Fran Cherry, we also have the associate Forest Service
chief Sally Collins and Jerry Williams standing by in Washington D.C.
Leslie Anderson is still on the phone in Missoula to answer any fire
shelter questions. Leslie, are you there?\
\
**L. Anderson:** I\'m here, Larry.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Great and that with us here in Phoenix we have Rich
Ochoa, Kevin Hamilton and Mike Rotonda on aviation as well as Michelle
Ryerson-Grett and Dennis Hulbert on safety. So I was just informed that
the call is back. So we\'ll go to the phones. Walt, you\'re on the air
and I understand you have a question for us this morning.\
\
**Caller:** Yes, sir. Appreciate all you folks being there and passing
this word onto us. I have just a couple of comments to Dennis. He pretty
well covered what I was going to say, but I\'ll go ahead and throw it
out anyway. Dennis, in the past the Federal agencies have shied away
from monitoring standards in air crew training, air crew \-- or aircraft
inspection programs and maintenance procedures in the air tanker
program. Air crew training standards in particular have varied widely
between contractors partly because the contractors are not rewarded or
compensated for \-- for instance, outsourcing simulator or upset
recovery training that\'s often provided for Federal agency pilots. My
question is, is anything being done to coordinate, as you mentioned, for
the NASA program, to get air tanker crews, helicopter pilots all
together in a coordinated top-gun type exercise in a situation where the
contractors aren\'t financially penalized where we\'re all working under
\-- on a common playing field?\
\
**D. Hulbert:** Thanks. That\'s a really good question. Yes, there are
some efforts that are being put forward right now to deal with that.
Those efforts \-- we\'ve been approached by a contractor already to put
together actually an international program that will address that issue.
We\'re also working at some proposals to do that, as I mentioned
earlier, at our new training facility at McClellan to bring that
together. We\'re just in the infancy of dealing with all issues and one
of the things we\'re looking at is if we can make this training
available that contractors that do put their people through that would
get extra points in the contract process and make them more competitive.
But, again, all these issues are going to cost more money and time, and
so we\'re really struggling with where to go next, but I\'m real excited
about some of the proposals that have came from outside the agency of
putting together an academy that just deals with that.\
\
**Caller:** Dennis, if I could throw one more thing in there, has
anything been done to utilize the Internet for training or for keeping
the air crews better informed, not only during the season but
off-season?\
\
**D. Hulbert:** Yes, that, too, has been discussed, and right now we\'re
looking at what would be available that we\'ve done to date in requiring
that contract pilots take some of the interagency train online. The
other thing is that we are frantically trying to develop something that
more targets that group and that is in the horizon. We\'ve even got a
title for it already. But it\'s not \-- it\'s going to take bus a year
to get there.\
\
**Caller:** Ok, again, I would just like to thank you all for having a
program like this where us outsiders sitting back here in New York can
hear what\'s going on and contribute. Thanks a lot.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thanks for calling, Walt. We appreciate the call. We
have another question here and this is going to be for predictive
services, Rick: on the southern central front range of Colorado we have
seen record low fuel moist in our conifer stands despite near normal
snowpack and precipitation totals. How much do you look at long-term
drought effects on live fuel moistures and therefore fire season
outlooks?\
\
**R. Ochoa:** We look at that quite a bit. I think a prime example is
what we\'re seeing in the southwest. We\'ve had a decent winter and
precipitation, but we\'re still ramming up in terms of fire danger, and
that\'s because of the long-term effects of the drought. So, yes, that
is a huge factor we\'re looking at. That\'s one of the things that I
think it\'s important to remember that even though we are having a wet
spring there, we are still going to dry out, you a special large fuels
at the higher elevations are going to be problems for us. So we need to
keep a heads up on that.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok. We have another fax here. Jerry, are you on the
line with us still? Jerry Williams in Washington D.C.?\
\
**J. Williams:** Yes, I\'m here, Larry.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok, I think this is probably going to be a question you
want to take a shot at. It starts out: I\'m curious where fire
suppression contractors fit into the picture. Many of us operate under
EERAs and we would like to find Avenues to further utilize our growing
skill sets and equipment. Unfortunately, there seem to be very few
opportunities at the moment. What is the status of the national engine
contract and will more forests be utilizing this option? The new BLM
fuels management services solicitation is impressive, but no one seems
able to point to a schedule of proposed actions that will be tied to it.
In short, you are our customer and we would like the opportunity to
provide the services that you need, and all we ask is that you remember
us before and after the big project fires.\
\
**J. Williams**: That\'s a good question. You know, in the wildland fire
services, I think you\'re seeing us getting into contracting in more
areas than we have in the past. Having said that, though, it\'s also
important for our audience to know that in terms of total fire
suppression expenditures, about three quarters of our total program is
contract related. Do we have opportunities to do more contracting? You
bet we do. When I look at the demographics of our workforce and the
decline in some of our capabilities, contracting certainly has a place.
I don\'t know that I can say we\'re moving fast enough. I do know,
though, that we are getting a group of people together here as we speak
that are looking at competitive outsourcing and what places do make
sense for us to use contracting more than we are now.

**L. Hamilton:** Yeah, we in BLM, we are developing I.D.I.Q. contract at
national level that will enable our local Field Offices to be more
efficient in doing small contracts at the local level. So we\'re hoping
that doing business with us is going to get easier and more efficient,
and that is our goal.\
\
**Dir. Clarke:** Larry, do you think everybody knows what IDIQ is?\
\
**L. Hamilton:** No, but I know you do.\
\
**Dir. Clarke:** I do now. You might want to tell them.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** I\'m going to have Fran tell them.\
\
**F. Cherry:** I don\'t have a clue right now.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** I\'m trying to think of the acronym. Does anybody know
it? It\'s \-- I don\'t know what the acronym stands for. All I know is
it\'s an easier way to get contracting done.\
\
**Dir. Clarke:** Indeterminate Delivery, indeterminate Quantity.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** I\'ve been told we have time for one more question and
I want to throw this question out, and anyone can take a shot at it, and
the question is, will the military be available to assist us this year?
Anybody want to take a shot at that? Jerry?\
\
**J. Williams:** Let \--\
\
**F. Cherry:** Let me take a shot at it, Larry. This is only in some
very informal talk I\'ve heard around and that is that we\'ll probably
have less capability available from the military this year as they\'re
recovering from the war in Iraq and their other overseas assignments
they\'ve had and they\'re working hard to rebuild their forces.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Ok. We did have last week the Air Force at NIFC doing
their annual training for our MAFS that go into C-130s, and so we\'re
hoping to have at least two of those and maybe more available this fire
season if we need them. Well, at this point we\'re near the end of the
program, and we now need to go back again, once again, to Washington
D.C. to Sally Collins. Sally, do you have any final thoughts?\
\
**S. Collins:** Yeah, Larry, thanks. First of all, I want everyone in
the wildland fire community to know how much I admire and respect all
that you do. I\'m proud to be counted in someway as part of what you do,
and I know that you are the ones that really count. You\'re the ones
that make a difference on the land. We leaders back here in Washington
are only here because you\'re out there, and you\'re \-- our job,
really, is to make your job easier. I know it\'s often said, but I
don\'t think it can be said enough, our nation owes you a debt of
gratitude. Your dedication and your sacrifice have made all the
difference in the world for so many families and communities all across
America. This last year, and this year again, you\'ll see gratitude in
the faces of people out there everywhere. You deserve every bit of that
gratitude from all of us. Let me just leave you with one final thought,
and that is the importance of treating each other with respect. In your
work you\'ll have differences of opinion, especially in the heat of
action. You just will. That\'s normal, and that\'s healthy and as long
as you can share your opinions in a climate of openness, mutual respect
and trust, those disagreements are ok. Earlier I spoke of our
expectations for the fire season and our final expectation in the Forest
Service is to cultivate this climate of respect and trust. Please
remember to respect the land, to respect the people we serve and to
respect each other. Thanks very much. I really enjoyed being part of
this program today.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thank you, Sally, and thanks for being with us. What we
would like to do now is go to director Kathleen Clarke. Kathleen, any
last thoughts, comments?\
\
**Dir. Clarke:** I want to thank you, Larry and Sally and Jerry for
pulling this together. I think this has been a great success and I
appreciate all the effort from the many players, those on our panels,
who have contributed to this forum. I think your presentations and your
expertise and advice have been invaluable and your contributions are
going to help us prepare for the upcoming fire season. They\'re going to
help us achieve our goals and do those things safely. I also really want
to thank all of you for tuning in with us and being part of our program.
We\'ve covered a lot of material today. Science and mechanics of
firefighting, resource conditions on the land, logistics, physical
resources, planning, cost management, policy development and some
unknowns. All of these things are important. But there\'s one facet of
the program that surpasses all of the things in its impact on the
success of fire management. That is the human dimension. The people from
the yellow shirts on the line to the state fire management officers, who
are the heart of this program, as I said at the beginning, the fire
program succeeds in carrying out its responsibilities to the American
people only through tremendous sacrifice of many individuals and their
family and friends and colleagues throughout our agencies. So as you
prepare for another fire season, we want you to know that you will
continue to have our support, our respect and the gratitude of a nation.
Thank you again so much for your participation.\
\
**L. Hamilton:** Thank you, Kathleen. That\'s going to wrap up our 2003
fire season update. I\'d also like to thank our panelists here and in
Washington D.C. and in Missoula for their participation as well as our
fire specialists for their technical briefings. Much of what we\'ve been
discussing today is tied to the national fire plan. If you would like
more information about the plan, please visit www.fireplan.gov. Another
good source of information with multiple links is the NIFC homepage,
www.nifc.gov. We all hope today\'s program has given you a better
understanding of the challenges and opportunities we all face during
this fire season. But most importantly, this season be careful out
there. Thanks for watching. And so long from Phoenix.