**Patricia Godwin:** \--be forced. That's wrong.

Q: 22.5 million for highway construction. I hadn't heard of that one
either. That's a lot of money.

**Patricia Godwin:** It is a lot of money.

Q: In \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ you put their tourist walk. Where is that
going to be?

**Patricia Godwin:** It's gonna be\-- Uh.. S\-- Uh.. I- I think
somewhere in the Lawrence(ph?) County area, uhm.. maybe down there where
Whitehall is. Uhm.. That's where that \$5.2 million dollar building's
gonna be put and uh.. what they're gonna do, they're- it's gonna be an
access road and uhm.. nine miles cut out so that people can park and-
and actually walk on what they call hallowed ground, you know, where the
marchers walked and all this was in the newspapers and- eh.. and I wish
that I'd had time. I have a\-- I have three years of newspapers bound
from the moment that the Nathan Bedford Forrest Monument uh..
controversy began. Of course, you know, from day one uh..---

Q: I wrote that down to make sure we talk---

**Patricia Godwin:** Yeah.

Q: \--but for years and years and years and years all we have heard is
about the national debt, the deficit, you know, and to me \$35 million
plus is a lot of money and uhm.. of course 35 million is I guess uhm..
just a drop in the bucket to our- on- on the national scheme of things
but \$35 million is still a lot of money.

Q: In anyone's account.

**Patricia Godwin:** I imagine \$35 million could really make a
scientist smile if he was studyin' and tryin' to find a cure for AIDS or
cancer, 35 million would really make his day and, you know, it's\-- We
have\-- And I have another problem. Uhm.. All of our wonderful monuments
that has been acrol- been put across Dixie, those monuments were
sculpted by artist that don't exist anymore and that talent doesn't
exist anymore and those monuments were put up as a labor of love by
ladies sellin' eggs and milk and butter and cheese and chickens and
quilts and havin' church bazaars just as this monument where you and I
met was done, that 40-foot monument. Uhm.. That was done by people who
had lost someone in that war and had- they had no money and then this is
bein' put up by the federal government and the state. Now if Martin
Luther King's wife and son wants to spend all their money on all this,
that's fine with me, that's f- just fine and dandy, but when my
monuments, when my cultures, when the monuments that- that were raised
to honor my ancestors when they are taken down, when they're vilified,
when they're painted on with the most obs- the worst obscenities that
you've ever seen in your life, I mean the worst words that exist in-
uh.. in today's English uh.. are painted with black paint, you know, on
Jefferson Davis' monument, on- on Robert E. Lee's monument, uhm.. and-
and the monument at the battery just a few weeks ago at the internment
of the \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ sailors, uhm.. kill whitey is what it says
in black paint and eh.. this is wrong. This is wrong so uh..---

\<crew talk\>

Q: Introduce yourself and tell us a little about yourself.

**Patricia Godwin:** Well, I'm Patricia S. Godwin and I'm from Selma,
Alabama. I'm a mother and a wife and a secretary. I have two sons. One
is 27, one is- uh.. his name is Jason. I have a 23-year-old son and his
name is Austin and my husband is Cecil Godwin Jr. and our family farm is
about 12-1/2 miles uhm.. toward Montgomery from here and uh.. and I'm a
country girl and uhm.. I love the South.

Q: Tell us about your pride in the South.

**Patricia Godwin:** Uh.. A lotta people try to define being Southern.
It's really not definable. Uhm.. It's a state of mind, it's a state of
your heart, uhm.. and yes, it's a geographical location but it's more
than just being born in the South. Uhm.. It's somethin' that you feel,
eh.. it runs through your blood, it- it's- it's in your heart and it's
the very fiber that weaves your soul that makes you- uhm.. makes you
tear up or makes your heart palpitate when you hear "Dixie" bein' played
or when you see uh.. our Confederate battle flag flyin' so beautifully
in the wind, uhm.. when you see our wonderful monuments across this
country that w- that w- that we know were put up with a labor of love
from ladies and- and those survivors of that war- that war that was the
war for- it was the second war for independence, for liberty, and uh..
this was\-- My mother always said uh.. when I was born uh.. people
always wondered why at such a young age did I- was I so uhm.. enthralled
with the War Between the States and my mother said that uh.. I hit this
ground- I hit the ground fightin' this war and uhm.. one time Senator
Shelby asked me uhm.., Ms. Godwin, are you still fightin' the Civil War
and I had to say Senator Shelby, this was a telephone conversation, uh..
first of all it was not a civil war. So I had to explain to him what a
civil war is. It's a war that's fought within the same country, the same
people of that same country fightin' each other, and the War Between the
States, the second war for independence, was fought by two separate
countries. It was the uh.. Confederate States of America and we had
seceded from the Union by virtue of the 9^th^ and 10^th^ Amendment and
Patrick Henry, all of our founding fathers, they provided deliberately
that provision in the Constitution. It was- It was like being a part of
these United States was a marriage contract and then when that marriage
became oppressive and tyrannical and it began to usurp the powers of the
state, then the states reserved that right to divorce, to- to terminate
that contract, that marriage contract, with the- with the United States
Government.

Q: Tell us a little of the history of Selma. I know you know the stories
well.

**Patricia Godwin:** Oh, wow. \<laughs\> Well, Alabama became a state
in- uhm.. on December the 7^th^, uh.. 1819, and Selma uh.. became uh.. a
city or- uh.. or she- uh.. she was established uh. a year later I
believe and William Rufus King named Selma. It means uh.. high throne or
high seat because we're up here on- on a high bank of the Alabama River
and uh.. Selma is ste- deep in several areas of history, uh.. that would
be Indian history and Spanish history. Uh.. We believe that- that DeSoto
came through here, we have the DeSoto Trail, uhm.. and there's a
monument uh.. out Highway 80 east headed toward Montgomery. Have you
noticed?

Q: Yes, a big, white stone.

**Patricia Godwin:** Yeah, on the left, right there at Tyler.

Q: We're a little curious 'cause it says several miles north of here so
you're not exactly on the trail---

**Patricia Godwin:** Right. It's within- within a certain radius I
believe and especially I guess since the- the highway was goin' that way
uh.. to Montgomery and then of course we're a state deep in uh.. War
Between the States history and then of course civil-rights history. So
we are- we're virtually sittin' on a gold mine here uh.. to be able to-
uh.. to educate people uhm.. from all walks of life, the- the- uhm.. the
amateur historian and the professional historian and just the person who
loves history period. Uhm.. We have a lot to offer here. Our people are
good people. Uh.. I think basically and generally speakin' everybody
gets along just fine. We have a power- a political-power struggle here
and this political-power struggle has been goin' on now for- for quite
some time and I tell a lotta people when they say- eh.. when people make
maybe snide remarks about Selma or they- or they'll say oh, aren't you
afraid to live there, well, no I'm not afraid to live in Selma, Alabama.
Selma is a beautiful city with beautiful people. We have wonderful
historical architecture. Uhm.. The overall picture of Selma is- is a
picturesque uh.. scene but we have stinkin' politics in Selma and that's
what I tell 'em, we have stinkin' politics.

Q: Is that a new thing or an old thing?

**Patricia Godwin:** Well, I think it's- uh.. it's been an ongoin' thing
for uh.. quite a while. Politics is kinda stinkin' anyway, don't ya
think?

Q: It sure can stink. I'm always counting on it improving.

**Patricia Godwin:** Yeah. Let's hope so. I'm lookin' for a statesman
though. We have no statesmen. Statesmen are a- are a thing of the past
and the statesmen came from the South.

Q: The War Between the States seems to be such a focus of yours. How did
your interest evolve there?

**Patricia Godwin:** You asked me in the cemetery and I said I was born
and that's just about the way it began uh.. but my- my real intrigue
with it I guess began in- uh.. when I was about 8 years old and in the
third grade and I grew up playin' in the churchyard of Ebenezer Baptist
Church and that was where uh.. General Forrest had his first encounter
with General Wilson and so in my imagination uh.. and in reading the
historical marker there uh.. in Stanton, that's where- that's where the
Ebenezer Baptist Church is, just a few miles north of Selma on Highway
22, uhm.. I would just envision General Forrest uh.. and because I love
horses too, I always have loved horses, and he was a- a great horseman,
uhm.. horse trader, uhm.. I just envisioned him being on King Phillip,
that big grey, and- uhm.. and I don't even know if he was on King
Phillip when he came to Selma uhm.. but that's what I grew up with and I
grew up with a- with a uh.. kid, we graduated together, and uhm.. he
found a musket in Bogler's(ph?) Creek and- uh.. and- eh.. and it had- he
had it authenticated and it was a musket from the War Between the States
and I guess it happened during that battle after it- it got lost in the
creek.

Q: What was the significance of the battles here in Selma? Were they
turning points in the war?

**Patricia Godwin:** Selma's battle was right at the end of the war,
April 2^nd^, 1865, uh.. and of course that was only seven days before
Appomattox, before General Lee uh.. surrendered the army of northern
Virginia to General Grant and I always like to say that that's one of
the reasons why the war's not over because uh.. General Lee only
surrendered the army of northern Virginia, President Davis did not
surrender the Confederacy, so we're waiting to reconvene at the
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ uhm.. but uhm.. Selma was very important to
General James Harrison Wilson, the- uhm.. the Federal general, because
of our uh.. Confederate foundry and naval iron works here and he felt
like that if he didn't come here to destroy that, that that would be
uhm.. a step for us to- to re-surge our strength. So he came here with
the intention to- uh.. to destroy it and he did and he destroyed a lot
here in town. Uh.. He destroyed a lot of our homes and thankfully to our
Lord and also uhm.. as I understand it a lot of the homes that were
saved were- were because uh.. the head of the household was a member of
the Masons and if their Mason charter was on the wall, then General
Wilson said I cannot- uh.. I cannot destroy the home of a brother- of a
brother Mason. So being a member of the Masons is a lot of the reason
why a lot of our homes uh.. were not destroyed but to get to the- uh..
the naval iron works the CSS Tennessee was built there and also uh.. the
brook(ph?) canon and the commander of the arsenal, which by the way was
only second to Tredegar Iron Works in Richmond, Virginia, and so uhm..
I'm very proud to say that uhm.. even though our role in the war uh..
came right at the end of the war but- but that was the- that was the
reason was because uh.. Wilson thought it was uh.. very important. As a
matter of fact, Grant didn't really even want him to come here because
Grant saw that it was at the end of the war and- uh.. and of course uh..
President Lincoln had given Grant the go-ahead to- and Sherman to wage a
war of attrition on the South and of course Sherman was given his leave
to- uh.. to go at Charleston and then of course he burned the South to
the sea to Savannah and uhm.. to starve us out and to murder us and to
do all of their atrocities that would be considered uh.. war crimes
today. Uh.. We hear about war crimes that uh.. some people are- uhm..
are prejudiced uh.. against General F- General Forrest and they like-
they like to say that he committed a war crime. Uhm.. I'm very proud to
say that in our uh.. research during this situation with General Forrest
here in Selma, uhm.. we found through the [Sherman Tribunal]{.underline}
and General Sherman said that uh.. it took the U.S. Treasury and 10,000
men's lives. He wanted to see General Forrest dead and uhm.. so we know
beyond the shadow of a doubt that if General Sherman could have found
just one iota of concrete evidence against General Forrest and uh.. the
incident at Fort Pillow in Tennessee, uh.. he would have- he would have
hung General Forrest but he didn't and he called it an act of war and
so- and of course in the 40- in the U.S. 42^nd^ Congressional Committee
General Forrest was exonerated of all wartime and postwar allegations
and never brought to trial, totally exonerated by his worst adversaries
and- and also I think there were some of his peers on that panel also
but uhm.. Benjamin Butler was one of the members of that- of that uh..
congressional committee and he was totally exonerated and that was my
fervent prayer as- when we began to plan this all- this monument to- to
honor General Forrest for his military accomplishments, uhm.. that he
was exonerated in his own time and I only had hope that he would
exonerated in my time and uh.. it has not happened, not yet.

Q: In fact, you created the memorial and---

**Patricia Godwin:** Yes, we did.

Q: Maybe you could tell us a little of the history of the memorial and
what its fate was.

**Patricia Godwin:** Well, this was a labor of love from the deepest
part of my heart and to the marrow of my bones. Uhm.. I wanted somethin'
here for General Forrest uh.. for his uhm.. bravery. He came here to
this town uh.. knowin' that the battle was lost even before he got here.
Even before it began the battle was lost because he was up against
superior numbers of General Wilson. He had a- an estimated 17,000 troops
and uh.. General Forrest had uh.. an estimated 3,000 and- and uh.. it's
even said that he went door to door and asked that every man and child,
every young- young man, uh.. had to man the garrison and uh.. which was
nothing left here but young men and old- and- and old men and uh.. so
uhm.. that to me is a very brave thing to do especially at the end of a
war after four long years and especially after this war had turned into
a war of attrition and uhm.. uh.. he came here to defend Selma and- and
that's one of the uh.. titles that is on the monument, defender of
Selma, and uhm.. he came here to defend the uh.. foundry, the
Confederate foundry and naval iron works, and uhm.. uh.. I had- in 1995
had gone before the city council and asked that the battle site down
here, which is not eh.. the original site of the actual battle but where
the Battle of Selma reenactment is- is uh.. held every year. I thought
it would be most appropriate for that battlefield to be named the Nathan
Bedford Forrest Battlefield Park and that's all I wanted and uhm.. so I
went before the city council and I- I approached Mayor Smitherman at the
time. This was December of 1995 and uhm.. he thought it was a very good
idea and I went bef- I was on the agenda to speak and make this- this
proposal to the council and for the most part the council was very
conducive to this idea and it was wonderful and I th- I thought well,
uh.. this is really beyond my-, you know, my wildest dreams that it
would have been received so well and uh.. at the time Usalf Salam(ph?)
was on the council and he was most uhm.. favorable for it. Uh.. He said
he didn't really care uh.. what heroes white folks honored and he even
made the statement sayin' that uhm.. it was in an obscure part of town
anyway and nobody was gonna ever see it and that was the truth because
the place grows up into nothin' but weeds and- and brush all year long
until at that time the Kiwanis Club was the sponsor of the uh.. Battle
of Selma reenactment and they didn't start workin' on it and clearin'
the ground and gettin' everything ready for the- for the April
reenactment. So uhm.. it just really looked like it was gonna happen and
then there was one particular uh.. city councilman that uhm.. he\-- In
my mind I think he saw that the upcomin' year, 1996, was a political
year and I think he used that as a political uh.. platform. I think he
was goin' to get him re-seated but it- but he was unseated, uh..
ultimately he was, and- uh.. but he was the one who really-, uhm.. his
name was Bill King, and he is the one who really led uh.. the charge
against the naming of the Battlefield Park and so through the years from
1996 of course we had several meetings to go to the city council and-
and then the- and then of course the last city- we had a workshop and
uhm.. Mrs. Martin and Miss Sule(ph?) and- and for the most part all of
the- uh.. the city councilmen said this is just goin' to be just a
formality, you know, we want to go back into our wards and get feedback
from our constituents and so uh.. there was no adverse output, you know,
from any of the wards and it looked like it was gonna go forward until
that last city council meeting in January, I think it was January the
19^th^, 1996, and a very passionate and a very dramatic uhm.. scenario
was given by uh.. Councilman King and of course then after that- that
passionate uhm.. dramatization uh.. then of course the- the council was
divided along racial lines, that's a- a standard uh.. quote these days,
uhm.. and uhm.. president Carl Morgan saw that and so it was tabled and
I saw then that it was not goin' to be uh.. fruitful and so I- I let it
go. So as far- I guess as far as- as far as the formality of uh..
Robert's Rules of Order it's still tabled uhm.. but then, you know, in
1996 the election came and Mayor Smitherlan- Smitherman was reelected.
Uhm.. His opponent was James Perkins. Uhm.. Then uhm.. upon occasion I
would say Mayor Smitherman and uhm.. I'd say I hadn't forgotten General
Forrest yet, I'm still thinkin', and I would see him at different places
in town, you know, and I s- and that s- would be my remark to him and
he'd say well, you keep workin' on it, and uhm.. so then of course uh..
I called him and I s- and the reason I started thinkin' in Selma we
didn't have anything here that- that honored General Forrest and he
deserved that. The Smitherman Building Museum was the most appropriate
place, it had been a field hospital durin' the War Between the States,
so there's a great possibility that he visited some of his men there.
Uhm.. There are five murals in the rear gardens that depict Confederate
Selma and the Battle of Selma. Uh.. There are artifacts within the
museum that are War Between the States artifacts, a wonderful
collection. So it was the most appropriate place and it was developed,
it wasn't gonna cost any money, and uhm.., you know, on our part or the
city's part and uh.. so I contacted at the time the uh.. commander in
chief of the uh.. national, international organization The Sons of
Confederate Veterans, he's from Maryland, his name is Rick Griffin, in
uh.. Darnestown, Maria- Mar- uh.. Maryland, and uhm.. I told him that-
what my plans were that I was lookin' for a sculptor and because he was
up there in that part of the country that I felt like he was in an
environment uh.. to meet sculptors because there were a lot of monuments
up there, you know, and- and uhm.. uhm.. I think a- a- a military art
world up there. So he recommended that I call Davis & Company that there
was a- an artist that worked for Davis & Company called Paul Spaulding
and uh.. so he gave me the number, and this was like in 1990- probably
1998 or 1999 when I was talkin' to Rick about this and uhm.. so I called
Paul Spaulding and talked to him about General Forrest and I told him
that- that I had a lot of pictures of General Forrest at different
stages of his life and uhm.. so we talked a lot over the phone and- and
I told him what I was lookin' for and in the pictorial, the- the
likeness of General Forrest, I wanted the intensity in his eyes and
this- this- the- the piercing- the piercing look in his eyes and- and
the intense- the intense expression on his face. He was a very intense
general. As a matter of fact, uhm.. uh.. a reporter asked General Lee
once who was his most effective general and General Lee said one of whom
I've never met, General Nathan Bedford Forrest, he could get the most
done with the least resources so I thought- I thought that was
wonderful. Uhm.. So uhm.. then, you know, I got---

\<crew talk\>

**Patricia Godwin:** \--and uhm.. uhm.. to build it and I'm a c- I'm a-
I'm a firm believer that when you use the word create, the Lord has
already created everything on the planet. We design, we develop, we
discover and we invent, we don't create. It's already created. It's just
here for our ingenuity uhm.. for the Lord gave us uhm.. but- and
providentially, and I have to say this, providentially uh.. I've- I've
have believed from the get-go that this monument was meant to be, it was
meant to come to Selma, uhm.. the way that- that Paul Spaulding came
into my life through Rick Griffin, the commander in chief of the Sons of
Confederate Veterans national organization. Uhm.. It ends up that y-
he's in Hampton, Maine, uh.. owns his uhm.. uh.. Antiquity Tile Company,
and uh.. he's a sculptor and he d- he designs uh.. these very fabulous
tiles for the mansions and such, you know, for uh.. bathrooms and
kitchens and Florida rooms or sunrooms and that kinda thing. So uh.. I
called him and lo and behold he's a Southern boy, he's from Tullahoma,
Tennessee, General Forrest's stomping grounds. So I said well, you know,
and- and I hadn't\-- Rick had said I've got another sculptor that you
can call and I said forget it, you know, this is the one and we talked
about General Forrest. He was very knowledgeable of General Forrest and-
and- and the history of the War Between the States, he's very, very
knowledgeable of history, and uh.. so I knew that Paul Spaulding was the
man for our job uh.. to cr- uh.. to create- to design uh.. the likeness
of General Forrest and I think he's done a- an excellent job and then
uh.. the stone cutter\-- Uh. I looked at a couple of places in
Montgomery, uh.. granite places, and uh.. Henley(ph?) Memorial to be
one, and uh.. then I remembered that the United Daughters of the
Confederacy\-- We had been notified by a little girl uh.. in Greenville,
Alabama, when she was 12 years old she had gone to Winchester, Virginia,
and uh.. discovered that in the Stonewall Cemetery that those 71
Alabamians who died at the Battle of Winchester did not have a monument
uh.. for their honor and so uhm.. that year the United Daughters of the
Confederacy voted to uh.. have an- an obelisk uh.. uh.. cut honoring
every one of these 71 soldiers and Thomas Lyde(ph?) Smith the third did
that- uh.. did that work for us and he was from Anniston, Alabama, and
he is a- uhm.. a stone cutter, monument builder, strictly for historical
military-type uh.. monuments. He doesn't do like your family graves, he
doesn't do that eh.. modern- modern thing like that, uh.. it's strictly
for historical and uhm.. military-type monuments and so I called and he
was a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans and I called Thomas and
he was just absolutely delighted uhm.. that I had called him to- to work
on this monument and uhm.. so the work began and I traveled from
cemetery to cemetery and- and people would send me pictures of different
monuments that they had put up across the South and so there was one in
uh.. Georgia, just uh.. in the vicinity of where President Davis was
uh.. captured. Uhm.. There was a monument raised there to him and in
recent times just a- just a couple of years before we started the- the
uh.. Forrest monument and I liked how that looked and so then I changed
it up a little bit and uh.. submitted it to- uhm.. and- and they sent me
some pictures, some photographs of it, and I told Thomas how I wanted to
change it a little bit and so- so we went from there and uh.. so I had
my sculptor who was in Hampden, Maine, but I had got to tell everybody
don't worry, he's not a Yankee, he's a Southern boy and loves General
Forrest and of course then work began, between the two of them uh..
corresponding back and forth and then between the three of us, uhm.. and
the work began, but of course before that, you know, I had uh.. found
the sculptor and he sent me a prototype of what he had done previously
several years prior to uh.. of General Forrest. So he sent that to me
and I took it to Mayor Smitherman to show him 'cause I had called him
and- and I said Mayor Smitherman, I've come up with- with the idea for
General Forrest and he said what is it now, Pat, and I said a monument
to General Forrest and he laughed and he said a monument and I said
don't worry, not an equestrian monument like the one up in Memphis, I
said I'd love to have one that big down here but we're gonna do- we
would like to do just a- a- a modest monument uh.. honorin' General
Forrest that would have just a- a bust of General Forrest on it and so
uh.. he said well, where do you want to put this and I said I think the
Smitherman building would be most appropriate and I listed my reasons,
that it was a field hospital and- uhm.. and i- it housed War Between the
States artifacts and the uh.. murals were in the rear gardens and- uh..
uh.. that depict the Battle of Selma and Confederate Selma and so he
said well, I'll get back with you and so he did. He called me back and
he said okay, Pat, uh.. this is fine with me uh.. as long as you get
approval from the board of trustees at the Smitherman buildin' and
they're gonna meet on February- February the 17^th^, 2000, and by the
way Mayor Smitherman and I were talkin' the first week, we were havin'
this telephone conversation uh.. in eh.. January, the first week of
January of 2000, 'cause I told him I'd- I'd\-- Yeah, before I could
really talk to him seriously about the monument, I had to have some kind
of a plan in my mind and have people uh.. in line, you know, to- to
begin the work, you know, in the event that it was approved. So I was on
the agenda. I called Miss Analaurie(ph?) Williams who was the chairman
of the board at that time and I met with them on the 17^th^ of February,
year 2000, and unanimously approved. So I had the approval of Mayor
Smitherman and the approval of the board of trustees to go forward and
so from that moment then I began to uh.. compose letters of uh..
contributions and mailed them. Uh.. Because I come in contact with a lot
of people across the country uh.. through my- through our travels to
different convention, you know, our Sons of Confederate Veterans
conventions and uh.. United Daughters of the Confederacy conventions,
and I want to say up front here too that I'm not repre- I'm not speaking
as a representative of any of these organizations. I'm speaking to you
as an individual, not a representative of any of these organizations
that I might mention. Uh.. So I know a lot of people and uhm.. so
through contacts with people and through the internet, uhm.. I was able
to uh.. solicit contributions toward this monument and the first \$100
that came in uhm.. from- uh.. eh.. from a man whom I did not know, uhm..
I said this can happen, this will happen, and that I thought here is a
man who trusts someone who- whom he- he's never met either. He's just
heard about it and- and uh.. got my address, my name and address, and
sent me \$100 toward this monument. So that was the- the first
contribution and I'll always remember that, that that was the
inspiration, that was the spark right there, that told me that it could
be done, that- eh.. that I could raise \$25,000 for this monument
because I knew people loved General Forrest across this country, North
and South and even in Croatia, and uh.. uh.. which that is true and
uhm.. uh.. so then of course the work began uh.. and through the months
uh.. Paul was workin' on the- on the bust and sendin' me progress
pictures and Thomas uh.. was waitin' on me to finally decide on the-
uh.. on the design of the monument and- uhm.. and then of course I
submitted him just- 'cause I'm no artist, I- I couldn't draw what I
wanted, but he did the final drawin' and- and- uh.. and it was wonderful
and that's the product that you see in the cemetery today and of course
we worked together on the wording and Dr. Cecil Williamson, uh.. my
co-chairman on this project, uh.. we uh.. worked on the wording as to
what was gonna go on the monument uhm.. and then of course the months
rolled on and of course the year 2000 was an election year and this
project began a long time before uh.. Mayor Smitherman's term had ended
and- and also before you- we even knew who was gonna throw their hat in
the ring and of course we had no way of knowin' who was gonna win this
election and didn't really care uh.. because we were workin' on a
historical monument. We didn't care who was uh.., you know, into the- in
the political realm here because this was a historical project, not a
political project, a historical project and uhm.. so it mattered not to
us who was elected and it had no bearing on- on the date of our
dedication. Our dedication of the monument was October 7^th^ and we had
to work around a football schedule because in Alabama, you know,
football makes people's blood flow. Uh.. So I had to check the Alabama
schedule, I had to s- check the Auburn schedule and one of them had an
off weekend that weekend and the other one was uh.. eh.. up in uh..
Starkville, Mississippi, playin' Mississippi up there and we also had to
think about that it's in October uh.. we were gonna lose Daylight Savin'
Time, uh.. and also the harvest festivals were goin' to begin at the
schools and the churches and then we were- we were lookin' at- at uh..
Thanksgiving and Christmas. So October 7^th^ was virtually and in
reality the only date that we could have the monument uh.. dedication
eh.. for all of these people to come together, the dignitaries that-
that I had invited to come, and this was a private\-- Uh.. By uh..
private invitation, those people who had contributed to the monument
were those who received a private, professionally printed invitation. It
was not uh.. broadcast by way of any media source, the TV or the
newspaper or the radio, uhm.. and uhm.. so it was virtually like my own
private wedding but on October the 6^th^, that was Friday, I was over at
the Smitherman buildin' preparin', you know, for- uh.. with Mrs.
Drigerus(ph?) uh.. uh.. about the reception and where I wanted the
tables and the flowers and all this and- and uhm.. so the phone was just
ringin' off the hook and Rose Sanders and her ilk were down there in
front of the uh.. Voting Rights Museum and they were- uh.. the Channel 8
reporter was uh.. getting an interview from them, wantin' to know how
they felt about this Nathan Bedford Forrest monument that was goin' up
at the Smitherman buildin' and of course they were pitchin' a fit about
it and they were callin' him every uh.. negative thing that they could
think of, uh.. General Forrest of- of course, not the reporter, and then
of course they came up to the Smitherman buildin' and they were uh..
chantin' and- and demonstratin' up there, a few of them, and- and so
they were really wreakin' havoc on uhm.. the ladies at the Smitherman
buildin' and uh.. they had them a- just a nervous wreck and uh.. while I
was sitting there in the- uhm.. uhm.. and I have to -- I have to
interject this. While I was sitting there makin' plans for this
monument, now bear in mind this is Friday. On Monday Mayor Perkins had
been inaugurated as the mayor, he had won the runoff, and let me go back
to- to uh.. eh.. September the 12^th^ was the runoff. A few days shortly
thereafter in the transition of- of the uh.. changing of the- uh.. of
the seat of power in Selma, uhm.. Mayor Smitherman called Mayor Perkins
and a uhm.. very prominent businessman here in Selma in to Mayor- Mayor
Smitherman and Mayor-Elect Perkins' office and uh.. so he was just
telling about different eh.. departmental things goin' on, uh.. this is
what Mayor Smitherman told me, and that he had told Mayor Perkins that
there was a monument going up to Confederate General Nathan Bedford
Forrest at the Smitherman building but he did not really know what the
date was yet, when it was gonna be dedicated, and uh.. so this- so this
was just a few days after September 12^th^, the year 2000. So Mayor
Perkins knew from that moment, sometime in September right after the
election runoff and it was declar- and he was declared the winner. He
knew that there was a monument goin' up at the Smitherman buildin' to
Nathan Bedford Forrest. Nobody called me. He never called me uh.. and-
and according to uhm.. Mayor Smitherman he had no comment and that came
out in the- the- in the depositions. Uh.. He was asked by our lawyers
who did he not say- why did he not raise his- uhm.. his opposition then
or in- in- inquiries, you know, who's puttin' this monument up, where is
the money coming from, is the city of Selma payin' for this monument,
uh.. any of these questions. None of these questions were asked and he-
he even answered in depositions that he didn't think it was important at
the time. So uhm.. of course the dedication- and as I was sitting there
uh.. and these ladies just goin' crazy and the phone ringin' off the
hook uhm.. a lady came in to the uh.. Smitherman Building Museum to give
a contribution to the museum and she was just beside herself. She said
let me tell you what just happened to a friend of mine down in the
parkin' lot at Winn- Dixie and she said she had put her groceries in the
car and uh.. she was roll- she was rollin' the window down and looking
back as she was backin' out of her parking place and this black woman
was walkin' behind her car and this black woman said you better watch
where you're goin' now because we're in control now. So that kinda set
the stage in my mind as to where we're going and so uh.. sh- she was
really a nervous wreck, that lady was, and uhm.. so then the next day
came up, the 7^th^. It was a beautiful fall morning, uhm.. the mums were
beautiful and I had had- eh.. with my own personal expense I had had all
the flower beds out there planted in yellow mums that were just
absolutely gorgeous on this fall m- crisp mornin' and the sun was
shinin' so brightly and then there were the chanters, there were the
demonstrators, and they had their signs and eh.. Nathan Bedford Forrest,
uh.. founder of the KKK, and they had a dummy there of- of the- uh.. of
a Klan dummy and they k- I understand they keep that on display at the
Voting Rights Museum. Uhm.. So they carried that in and they chanted and
they whooped and they hollered during our entire uh.. ceremony. Now
please bear in mind this was a private ceremony. So before I went to the
podium to begin the- the ceremony, I walked over to these women and I
said would you all just move back please, we're fixin' to begin our
program, and one of them barked back at me and she said we don't have to
go anywhere, this is a public place and we have every right to be here.
So I said fine and I walked away. Then Ms. Drugers(ph?) came out and she
says Pat, you have a telephone call and you really need to take this
phone call. I said who on earth could be callin' me uh.. here today and
she said it's a reporter from New York City. I said a reporter from New
York City and so- uh.. but I said it like that Pace commercial, New York
City. So she said you really do need to take this call so I went in
there and he was very uhm.. uhm.. challenging. He s\-- He asked me why
did you p- why did you want to put this monument up in this all-black
neighborhood that's so offensive to black people and I said number one,
h- how did you know about this, you know. He got it by way of e-mail. So
we found out that the Voting Rights Museum had e-mailed virtually every-
every uh.. connection of the media that- that they had in Washington
and- and uh.. New York and everywhere and uh.. his name was Devon
somethin', I can't remember his last h- I can't remember his whole name
now. Anyway so I said- uh.. I began to answer his question uh.. and-
uh.. and I asked him what newspaper he was with and I forgot what the
name of his new- because it was just such a- uhm.. an overwhelming
experience there and uhm.. so uh.. I said well, let me tell you
somethin' up front. If in your newspaper I want copy of it before you
print it and if you misconstrue anything that I say, if you- if you uh..
uh.. write somethin' that I didn't say and if you misinterpret anything
that I say here uh.. regarding this monument, I promise you I will sue
you and your newspaper and you won't have enough money to buy a pencil
to write with and so he sent me the copy and he wrote that, Mrs. Godwin
said that if I didn't quote her verbatim that she would sue me and I
wouldn't be able to afford a pencil so- uhm.. but he was a Rose contact,
a Rose Sanders contact, and- uh.. from the Voting Rights Museum and
uhm.. so I went on and answered his questions, that this was not an
all-black neighborhood, it was an integrated neighborhood, and I
explained the historical signif- significance of that building and end
of conversation and I went back outside and beg- and we began the
program. Those demonstrators came around to the front of each one of our
speakers that day and blew cigarette smoke in their face and during the
playing- uh.. during our prayer and during the playing of "Amazing
Grace" on a bagpi- uh.. uh.. we had a bagpiper there and uh.. they were
screamin' what about Fort Pillow, what about Fort Pillow, you know, and
just all kinds of- of uh.. just horrid things during our prayer and-
uh.. and- and during the playing of "Amazing Grace" totally disrupted
and Bill Rambo is uhm.. of the 33^rd^ Alabama Reenactment Division here
in Alabama and he is the director of the Confederate Memorial Park up at
Marbury, Alabama, and I had asked him to be-uh.. to provide the color
guard that day and Bill Rambo very courteously went over to the four
black policemen. I did not beckon any policemen there. We were gonna
have somethin' that was just virtually like a wedding, a private affair
to dedicate this monument that depicts Selma's history and uh.. so we
don't know yet who dispatched these policemen to come. They steadfastly
planted their feet on the ground with their hands behind their backs and
Bill Rambo went over to them and said would you just please move them
back so we can hear what the speakers are sayin', we can't hear them.
They didn't budge so through all of that--- I guess we had an attendance
of about 250 people, between 250 and 300. All of our people maintained
their composure with the class that Southerners have and what we are
noted for is our class, our dignity and- and our uh.. refined composure
but what they wanted was a confrontation and they were hoping to provoke
a confrontation but they didn't get it and then of course the- the war
began. Uh.. On Monday- uhm.. uh.. and by the way, the sculptor, Paul
Spaulding, and a friend from New Hampshire came down, spent four days at
the s- in the St. James Hotel, at their own expense they came down here
by way of airplane, and uhm.. I was\-- As a matter of fact, I was takin'
them over the city of Selma uh.. on a tour of Selma, showin' them the
sights here and- and uhm.. so uhm.. they just couldn't believe it. They
could not believe what they had witnessed. I mean here we had a fellow
that was born and raised in New Hampshire and then Paul being, you know,
have- having spent his life from 1975 uh.. in- in Maine and being
totally removed from all of this in the South for so long and by the
way, he was a- a par- he was a paratrooper and served in the uh.. uh..
USA 2^nd^ Airborne and a Viet Nam vet so uh.. he- he too is a patriot
and uh.. so uhm.. they just couldn't believe what they had witnessed and
uh.. so on Monday I was havin'- I was supposed to have had a meeting
with the board of trustees that afternoon uhm.. uh.. just to go over
what eh.. had happened and uhm.. so Steven McLamb(ph?) was there at the
monument with the Channel 8 television station in Montgomery, WAKA, and
he wanted to know where in the world have I been and I said well, I've
been- I've been touring Selma with our guest and uh.. they went into the
grocery stores and they bought up Southern stuff, you know, bama jelly
and- and all kinds of stuff, you know, that's Southern, that's totally
indicative of the South and of Alabama and of Selma. They took back some
Southern flavor, that's a- that's a seasoning salt here that's- uh..
that was uhm.. uh.. put together by a Selma resident and- uh.. and it's
marketed all over the place and so they bought up a whole lot of stuff,
you know, to take back to Yankee land and uh.. so uhm.. anyway that's
when it began. The- The- The news media was here uh.. uh.. and even at
the dedication Channel 12, WSFA TV, and that reporter, uh.. her name was
Mary somethin' and uh.. she said w- Ms. Godwin, why did you- why did you
eh.. want to put this monument here that's so offensive to black people
and I said this monument should not be offensive to black people and I
said this monument was not put here to be offensive to anyone, this
monument was put here to showcase Selma's history and I would hope that
everyone would be an ambassador to Selma and- and want to showcase Selma
to be the- the lovely city that we are with lovely people here and
wonderful history. We're state deep in history, four areas of history
that I can name you, Indian and Spanish and War Between the States and
civil rights and what other city in the country can- can capitalize on
such a diverse history as we have and Mayor Smitherman used to say that.
He used to say we were the most unique city on the planet because
nowhere in these United States does Jeff Davis Avenue and Martin Luther
King Street intersect. So we are a very uni- unique city and uh.. uh..
in a very positive way and- and- and we-, like every other city across
the country, we have our warts and we have our problems uhm.. but this
monument was not brought here to a problem, it was to be- it was brought
here again eh.. for educational reasons, for tourist reasons and for
historical reasons and if- and if had been implemented properly the way
that the what evolved- as my little planning committee here uh.. evolved
into the Friends of Forrest Incorporated because it was obvious that
this was not- this problem was not gonna go away, Rose Sanders was not
gonna let this go away because number one, this mayor was elected
because of her efforts. He owed her a political debt and he was
fulfillin' her demands by removin' that monument. So uhm.. that
monument\-- I was told there were- and- and I witnessed it myself. There
was a group from Boston, students. About 25 or 30 students came here. I
went over there to check on the monument that afternoon, it was like
maybe the second week the monument was here, and these chi- these
children, diverse, male, female, foreign, black, white, Oriental, uh..
Asian, uhm.. they were sitting uh.. in a group uh.. there around the
monument and the flower beds and all, you know. So I- I came up and I
introduced myself, you know, and- and their- uhm.. uh.. uh.. I guess
their chaperone said- told me eh.. who they were and so we just more or
less had a little history l- classroom right there and then about that
Benny Austin, who is also a member of Friends of Forrest, he drove up
and- uh.. and he introduced himself and so he took a group and I took a
group and so we just had history right there until way after dark. It
was a wonderful experience and one young man, he was 14 years old and he
said Ms. Godwin, may I escort you to your car and he was so sweet and-,
you know, and during\-- Uh.. We probably stayed over there with those
students for about maybe more than two hours and uhm.. so they went away
from there\-- They came there with a different attitude that\-- They
came there with a preconceived attitude about General Forrest and the
War Between the States but they left uh.. with a more open mind and-
uhm.. uh.. and an attitude that was not so hostile because then they-
they were- they were taught a li- a history lesson that day that was
totally different than what they'd been taught in the classroom and-
uh.. and of course Patrick Claybourn(ph?) said, he was a prophet, he
was- he was a literal prophet, and he said that- that the- uh.. that the
victor of the war of course would record the history and our children
would be taught in- by- by Northern teachers and by books written by
Northerners and that- that's been the case uhm.. but then the weeks
began to evolve into months and so from October until February uh.. we
were in negotiations with the mayor and with the city council. Uhm.. I'd
like to uh.. say this too that Rita Simms Franklin(ph?) uh.. and Mrs.
June Martin, uh.. they were two of the city council women who
contributed from their uh.. discretionary fund to the Nathan Bedford
Forrest Monument Fund, they were supportive of it, but through the
course of all of this Mrs. Martin became uhm.. loyal to Mayor Perkins
and she uh.. changed her vote to move the monument and uhm.. so- but in
November of 2000, November the 20^th^, well, actually the 19^th^, uh..
we had the Parade for Tolerance here. So we- we started it at Memorial
Stadium down there and we had around 500 people who came here and eh..
Selma citi- citizens and people from out of town came and uh.. uh.. this
is out right across the highway from the Selma Country Club and so we
walked to the- our itinerary down beside the cemetery and then crossed
over and up- and came up Alabama Avenue and up to the- uh.. up to the
Smitherman Buildin' Museum and there Dr. Williamson and uh. Reverend
Vaughn McClain(ph?) gave two uh.. very profound and in- inspirational
addresses about Southern history and Southern heritage in our culture
and- and how we are a Christian culture and it was a wonderful,
wonderful day and uh.. but this was our appeal to this lunatic fringe in
Selma who preach tolerance every day of our lives but I have found that
those who preach tolerance the loudest are the least tolerant of us all
so and at a time now when this President that we have says for us- where
he- uh.. he refuses to close our borders in these United States and he
tells us that we- we must embrace all cultures that's here in these
United States uh.. at the same time that I am told that I- that I must
acknowledge, tolerate and embrace a culture that has hijacked our
domestic commercial airplanes and flown them into our buildins' in New
York City and killed thousands of people. I'm supposed to embrace that
culture that did that at the same time when that- this President, who
was at the time governor of the state of Texas, condoned and allowed two
bronze plaques that were on the wall in the old Supreme Court buildin'
there in Austin, Texas, there were two bronze plaques there that had
quotes from General Lee, one of the quote being, uh.. I can't quote it
verbatim, but he was uhm.. showing his appreciation to the Texans who
had served the Confederacy durin' the War Between the States but by the
darkness of night those plaques were removed from that building, that
building that was built with Confederate pension money. George Bush,
Governor George Bush, allowed that to happen and those plaques are still
off of the wall in the- in the Supreme Court building. However, there is
a lawsuit in progress right now as we speak to get those m- those
plaques back on the wall in the old s- uh.. Supreme Court building in
Austin, Texas, uhm.. but this is eh.. at the same time my culture, my
Southern culture, my heritage, is- is continuously to be vilified and-
and chastised and persecuted and ridiculed and mocked and denied,
absolutely denied our Constitutional rights. We are not given equal
protection of the law and there is no justice for all, no liberty and
justice for all, not for- not for us Southerners. Uhm.. We had our
Parade for Tolerance and in the wee hours of the mornin' someone
attacked it with a eh.. cinder block at close range, wi- uh.. hurled
this ci- cinder block into the face of General Forrest and you can see
at the tip end of his nose it's blemished a little bit and up at the
hairline and then it knocked it loose a little bit from the capstone but
that's all well and good, that's fine and dandy. So then on December the
11^th^, 2000, I get a telephone call from someone that tells me that
after the city council meeting that there's gonna be a contingency of-
of Rose and her ilk uh.. or someone to go over to the- uh.. uhm.. to the
monument and they were gonna do somethin' to it. Well, it ended up that
they dumped three bags, three huge garbage bags, full of garbage on the
monument. Now they've littered. There's a law against littering but
they've littered and we called the police over there and we sifted
through the- the- uh.. the- the garbage and found three pieces of
evidence that linked that garbage to Rose Sanders. Do you think the
police did anything? Didn't even fine these people uh.. for littering
and then Rose Sanders was quoted in the newspaper and sayin' well, there
was already garbage over there, what's- uh.. what did it hurt to have
three more bags. She was implying that General Forrest was garbage so we
had to toler- had to tolerate that. So then January and in the midst of
all of this the Friends of Forrest, uh.. our committee, uh.. we began to
meet with uh.. their selection of their ad hoc committee from the uh..
city council and in January uh.. with the lengthy meetings, two or three
meetings, I can't remember now exactly, eh.. it may have been three but
I know two, uhm.. where we came to an amicable agreement and came away
from those meetings uhm.. with five recommendations that- that was to be
submitted to the city council that night at- at- uhm.. at the m- city
council meeting that night and- uh.. and these, to name just a few that
I can remember, uhm.. that we agreed that we would put a bronze plaque
out near the monument to say that for more information concerning
General Nathan Bedford Forrest, please s- please go inside the museum.
Well, that was going to have people go in the museum and therefore pay
\$3 to get past the door and- uh.. and then of course we w- offered that
we- at our expense we would maintain the grounds over there on that side
of the building and- and also with a- Alabama Avenue being predominantly
black residents we offered that we would landscape with Leyland cypress
trees, which are- are eh.. very fast-growing cypress, uhm.. wonderful
evergreens, and they grow straight up and that way they would be
blocked, you know, from- uh.. from the grounds of the- of the uh..
Smitherman buildin' and we also offered that we at our- our expense that
we would supply uh.. professionally printed information in the- uh.. in
the building for people to study and learn about General Forrest and
about the Battle of Selma and our history and uh.. so those were some
things that we uh.. offered and it was agreed upon. So we left that
meeting at the library that night and went into the city council meeting
and it was never brought up for a vote so we were betrayed and uh.. so
uh.. then\-- Uh.. Oh, and I'd like to say this too. Nancy Sule(ph?) was
one of the members of their ad hoc committee, Na- uh.. N- Nancy Sule,
(ph?) uh.. uh.. Rita Simms Franklin(ph?), uhm.. and uh.. President Evans
came and sat in on- on the- on one of the meetings and uhm.. Mr.
Drury(ph?), a fine, fine gentleman, and uhm.. uhm.. I believe that was-
I believe that- that was their committee, Mr. Drury(ph?) and- and uhm..
Miss Sule(ph?) and uh.. Rita Simms Franklin(ph?) and- uh.. and then of
course it was myself and Benny Austin and Steven Phipps.(ph?) Uh.. We
represented uh.. Friends of Forrest and of course Dr. Cecil Williamson
but he didn't attend these meetings. Anyway, so we went into the city
council meetings that night and of course uhm.. it was never brought up
for a vote. So we left there very bewildered and uhm.. so then on uh..
January the 15^th^, 2001, which was actually the birth date- the actual
birth date of Martin Luther King and of course traditionally for years
before his birthday was ratified as a national holiday, General Robert
E. Lee's birthday was observed on the third Monday in- in January also.
So they- Rose Sanders, being the per- uh.. owns the uhm.. Voting Rights
Museum, the national Voting Right- Voting Right\-- That's a privately
owned entity by the way, it is not a federal thing, but- but it receives
heavily state funding. This is a private entity that receives state
funding from the Special Education Trust Fund and you can check that out
with the Secretary of State, I'm not tellin' you somethin' that's just
right off the top of my head, and- uhm.. and that's another document
I'll- I'll send to you too because I've got all the records. She has
uh.. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Learning Center, the 21^st^ Century
Youth Leadership Institute, the Voting Rights Museum and I think it's
called- the other one is the Black Belt Economic Development Institute
or Learning Institute. It was uh.. four entities that- that are owned by
Rose Sanders that we know of received uh.. funding from the s- Alabama
State Special Education Trust Fund. Private entities are not supposed to
receive state funds. My children went to John Tyler Morgan Academy.
That's a private school. They didn't receive money from the Special
Education Trust Fund. Hank Sanders did not appropriate or- or pork
through any funding for Morgan Academy as he did in the legislature.
Uh.. X number of thousands of dollars went to the Alabama State
Archives- Department of Archives and then it was earmarked to go to the
Voting Rights Museum in Selma, Alabama. The Voting Rights in- uh..
Museum and uhm.. the Civil- the Civil Rights Museum in uh.. Birmingham
and the American Village in Columbiana, those three entities received
money after it w- had\-- It was primarily designated for the Arch-
Department of Archives and History but then after it got there it was to
be disbursed, came back to a private entity, the Voting Rights Museum.
So uh.. but on this day, this commemorative day for Martin Luther King
and for General Lee, uh.. it's to our knowledge that she did not receive
a parade permit but- uh.. and did not designate her point of origin and
her point of destination but she led all of these children, and now my
husband was over there filmin'. I had left to go get 35 millimeter to
get- for my 35-millimeter camera and he was there filming and uh..
because uh.. we had received a phone call that- that uh.. this might
take place. Two motorcycle policemen led them off of their itinerary to-
to go somewhere and commemorate Martin Luther King but she brought all
of these little children, uhm.. which violated the city safety
department because eh.. there was a- uh.. she was not supposed to
deviate from her designated route and uhm.. so she brought these
children and these adults up there to uh.. the- uh.. to the monument
and- and all of this is on film. Uh.. She threw a rope around his neck
and had- eh.. she and Clarence Williams, who was the president of the
Southern Christian Leadership Conference chapter here in Selma, uh.. and
a couple of others that were tuggin' on the rope and it- it's very uh..
audible on the tape that she said that if she could get 200 people to
come to her office the next day, they would come back over there and
Clarence Williams said and we need a pickup truck uh.. and we'll pull
this monument down. The city police did nothing and they were there and
even my- uh.. th- and they chanted and- and- and in my- in my mind, you
know, they could have- they were really tryin' to incite a riot, you
know, building these emotions. There was my husband uh.. filming this
with our home video camera. You know, he could have easily been downed
and- and bludgeoned uh.. because this was- uh.. this was uh.. an
atmosphere here that was very conducive uhm.. and- and had the potential
for a riot becau- but that's what she wanted, she wanted emotions to be
built, and- uh.. and so then after they left\-- Well, my husband even
got it on our video that this lady and her little children, she said
we're leavin', this is not what we came here for, and uhm.. so uh.. then
I called the police. They liked to have never gotten there. I had to
make several phone calls to get them over there to file a report. Well,
finally one came and he doesn't work for the police force anymore uhm..
but he said well, it's an inanimate object, he said what- what- what
kind of charge are you gonna file here. I said vandalism and he said
well, was it damaged and I said well, no, I said how about attempted
vandalism then. He said well, and he started flip- flippin' through his-
uh.. I guess his book of uh.. offenses or- or whatever crimes, you know,
are- are uhm.. uh.. I guess can be committed, you know, and be- be filed
against and so- uhm.. and I said okay, attempted vandalism and he s- he
said well, you know, it's an inanimate object, it's not hurt. He said
now if they'd put the rope around your neck that'd be a different thing
and I said no, that'd be attempted murder and uh.. I said now this
fountain over here, if you came by here and I had about six people and a
rope over here tryin' to pull this fountain over, what would you do. He
said I'd have\-- He said I'd have to arrest you and I said on what
grounds. Vandalism. I said there you go, there's your charge, vandalism.
So that's what we had to contend with, uhm.. first a cinder block of
which, you know, we had no way of knowin' who did that, they did that in
the wee hours of the morning, the morning after our Parade for Tolerance
and uh.. uh.. then of course uh.. the- the trashing and then the
lynching, three major assaults on this historic monument by only Rose
and her lunatic fringe, not the city of Selma. A local talk-show host,
Larry Morris, has a- a program every morning 8 to 9 uh.. called
"Viewpoint." You would not believe the black people who called in and
even the black people that we eh.. met at the- uh.. at the monument who
said we don't know what all the hoopla's all about. Well, the monument,
you can't even see it from the road anyway because\-- Have you been over
there at- at the Smitherman buildin' to see where it was? So you'd have
to go down those little steps, you know, and so you could hardly even
see it. One lady was over there when my husband and I were there and
uh.. she said well, I had to get out of my car to find it and- uh.. and
so then my husband said well, would- would you just read everything
that's on this monument, do you f- and she did and he said do you have-
is there anything on this monument that's offensive to you and she said
no, there is nothin' offensive about this monument. Well, the same kind
of calls came in to the- to the talk show. They could not understand.
The general populace of Selma, black and white, could not understand why
this monument was attacked and war, literal war, waged against it but
not so much the monument but our civil rights, my Constitutional rights,
Southerners' Constitutional rights, our equal protection of the law, our
number-one amendment, our freedom of speech, our freedom of expression.
All of that has been violated and totally denied because in- eh.. as the
months went on we saw that it just was a- a futile effort here. February
the 26^th^, Monday, 2001, city council votes to move the monument 4 to
5, Ms. Martin is the deciding vote, Mrs. June Martin, and so the next
day in a pouring-down rain the city, Mayor Smitherman, uh.. uh.. I mean
Mayor Perkins dispatches uh.. city workers over there to dig the footing
in the pouring-down rain and pour uh.. the foundation, the platform, for
the monument to be moved on- set on and that was all in the pouring-down
rain. Now that platform, that- that concrete foundation that's at the
Smitherman building, my husband did that and my son and another member
of the Sons of Confederate Veterans of this local camp here, the
Christopher C. Pegues Camp 62, they are the ones who uhm.. with
permission dug out that rectangular uh.. and built the frame and poured
the concrete, put the concrete wire in there and everything, by the
specifications of Thomas Lyde Smith(ph?) the third to know how- uh.. how
much concrete had to go in there for- and for that designated space. He
designated to my husband exactly the dimensions that that foundation had
to be and the thickness of it and also the number of days that it had to
cure before settin' the monument onto that foundation, no less than 12
days should it cure to set a 5-1/2-ton monument on that foundation.
Well, February the 26^th^, 2001, it's voted to move. February the
27^th^, the foundation- the footing is dug, the foundation poured in the
pourin'-down rain, no concrete wire put in it, just concrete poured in
there lickety split and they're gone with the wind. The next day, the
Deep South Crane Company out of Montgomery is hired by the city of Selma
to go over there and raise that monument and strap that monument up and-
uh.. and you would not believe the meticulous care that Thomas Lyde
Smith(ph?) uh.. exerted in instructing uh.. those people who came from
Georgia who brought the monument over because it was\-- He- He traveled
every day to go over to Georgia and- and carve the- the Georgia granite,
every day drove from Anniston, Alabama, to Georgia and now I can't
remember the name of the town uhm.. but it was a labor of love for
Thomas Lyde Smith(ph?) too and uh.. uh.. he's a very passionate and very
sensitive sculptor and- uh.. and he's a treasure, he's an absolute
treasure to the South uh.. for the monuments. He is renowned throughout
the Southeast for the monuments that he has put across this country,
military and historical monuments, and uhm.. anyway uhm.. our monument
was placed at the Smitherman building with very meticulous care and now
eh.. here's this crane company has no experience with movin' monuments,
they come over here and just jack it up, you know, and off to the
cemetery they go and placed it even- and- and the de- the footing was
dug, the- the foundation as you know, uh.. if you've observed and being
from Virginia as you are, uh.. you should know that the direction that
Southern monuments are always face, they face north, they- they f- they
face north, they face the enemy. Well, this is facing east and so a
reporter asked my husband, he said they've dug it all wrong and she said
well,- well, how is it wrong and he said it's facin' east, it's supposed
to be facin' north, all Southern monuments are facing north, they're
facin' the enemy. She said well, why didn't you tell 'em and he said
well, in the all-knowing city of Selma they know everything so why
should I, just a lowly person out here, tell them which way that they're
goin' to place that monument that they're arbitrarily uh.. moved over
here. So on the 28^th^, of course the monument came to Live Oak Cemetery
and that was the Wednesday prior to the Bloody Sunday reenactment and
let me eh.. cite one other event that happened at the monument while it
was still at the Smitherman building. There was a lady over there and
she had announced to the new- uh.. to the radio uh.. uh.. that she was
goin' over there to pull the monument down, this lone black woman was
gonna go over there and pull the monument down. Well, she went over
there, you know, and of course we all got there and- and- and Rita Simms
Franklin(ph?) and I were sittin' there uh.. uh.. on a park bench right
there under that tree and all of a sudden all these people started to
walk up and I mean just movin' in and there were several men who just
surrounded themselves uh.. around the monument and Rita looked at me and
she said where did all of these people come from and I said Rita, if you
build it they will come so uhm.. and of course uh.. April Albright, the
attorney with the Voting Rights Museum, she and her ilk came over and
Steven McLamb(ph?) with Channel 8 was there and he interviewed her and
they were planning a mock trial for the upcoming weekend, Bloody Sunday
weekend, on that Friday night and they were- and they were gonna have it
in the courthouse, the citizens' courthouse now. They were goin' to have
a mock trial for General Forrest and Steven McLamb(ph?) asked her, she
said- he said well, uh.. General Forrest was ex- why are you gonna have
a trial for General Forrest, uh.. he's already been exonerated by the
42^nd^ U.S. Congressional Committee. April Albright comes back and says
he hasn't been tried by a black jury yet. So who are the racist here,
who are the intolerant, who are the militant, who are the hostiles, and
so this is what we put up with and we- and we continued our composure
uh.. to- and we were- we were the injured victim and, you know, we
maintained ourselves with the utmost of class. We didn't resort to the
streets and- and chant Rose gotta go, Rose gotta go, as she did durin'
the political campaign between Mayor Smitherman and Mayor Perkins. She
had people at the foot of the Pettus bridge there. I mean our visitors
comin' into Selma, she had 'em on both sides of the street where the
[Selma Times-Journal]{.underline} is and- and then were uh..
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Selma park is. Uh.. As people had to sit
there and wait on the light to change, she had people with placards,
with signs, and it said Joe gotta go, Joe gotta go, Joe gotta go, and
that's what people had to put up with here, our tourist who came to
Selma. That's what\-- That- That's what they saw and- and but she wages
war on our town. She has been physically removed from city council
chambers. She got in Dr. Cecil Williamson's face one night as he\-- They
have guest ministers to come in and have prayer at the beginnin' of the
city council meeting. It's a tradition, we do that at every one of the
city council meetings. Sh\-- During his prayer now, she is screamin' in
his face sayin' that he is not fit, that he's evil and should not be a
member of the Dallas County Board of Education. Well, of course she was
so disruptive the prayer had to come to a halt in the middle of it and
never completed, and uh.. President Evans, George Evans, had to have her
escorted out of the chamber and when Cecil Williamson got on the
elevator she got on the elevator with him and still screamin' at him and
got down on the sidewalk out of the building and she was still screamin'
at him as he was goin' to his car. Uh.. So the mock trial. My husband
and I were very, very concerned that they would have this mock trial and
that they would have these emotions built and they would come to the
cemetery and destroy our monument. We were very fearful of that. So on
that Friday night my husband and I, with a video camera and with a still
camera and a flashlight and some hamburgers, and it was misting rain, in
the darkness of the night, and this was in February, you know, so it's
dark, you know, no Daylight Savin' Time. We parked our car out there on
King Street right there kinda sorta close to uh.. the mausoleum of uh..
William Rufus King, and we walked into the cemetery down the center-
down the center drive there and our eyes had to acclimate to the
darkness and then as we approached the monument- and let me say this too
that the day that the monument was moved over there it was rainin',
pourin' down rain, that was on a Wednesday, the 28^th^ of February,
2001. You would not believe the people who came in there. I mean it was
just like a processional, a constant processional, a constant
processional, and people had come there and as with Lady Di and with
Dale Earnhardt, had laid flowers on General Forrest's monument. Now bear
in mind this is not a grave, he's buried in Memphis at Forrest Park,
and- uh.. and so eh.. uh.. that Friday night as we approached the
monument I saw somethin' that looked like a sign and I thought oh, my
goodness. Oh, and that's another thing. Throughout those mo- weeks and
months, they taped uh.. signs on the monument when it was still at the
Smitherman buildin' sayin' founder of the KKK, uhm.. murderer- murderer
of X number of blacks at Fort Pillow, they just did all these things and
taped 'em on there eh.. regularly durin' the week. I'd go over there and
take Wal-Mart bags off of his head, garbage bags off of his head, take
those off, and I still have those- those flowers that they uh.. taped
onto our monument and uh.. so uh.. then uh.. as I approached the
monument I saw somethin' that was on a tripod, you know, and I thought
oh, goodness, they've already been over here and put a sign over here
and as I came up to it, it was a wreath and it was a- uhm.. a- l- like a
laurel wreath and it had a red-and-white bow at the top of it and down
on the monument's base, the granite base, was a little cherub. I don't
know who did that. It was the sweetest thing that I think I've ever
seen.

\#### End of Tape A26 \####