**MINUTES**

**INTERAGENCY FIRE PROGRAM COMPETITIVE SOURCING**

**CHARTER MEETING NO. 1**

Date: Wednesday June 14, 2006

Time: 1:00 p.m. -- 3:30 p.m.

Location: Main Interior Building

Room 7000-B

1849 "C" Street NW

Washington, DC 20240

**[Acronyms]{.underline}**

BIA -- Bureau of Indian Affairs

BLM -- Bureau of Land Management

CS -- competitive sourcing

DOI - Department of the Interior

FS -- Forest Service

FWS -- Fish & Wildlife Service

NPS -- National Park Service

USDA -- Department of Agriculture

**[DISCUSSION]{.underline}**

**[Designation of Chairperson:]{.underline}**

Donna Kalvels will serve as the chairperson for the next two years.
(6/06 through 6/08)

**[Introductions.]{.underline}**

The following individuals attended the meeting. Charter members were
asked to identify themselves and confirm that they could fulfill their
role as a voting member representing their organization. FWS wants to
discuss with their Fire Director before making a final determination as
to which individual will become their representative.

[Name (member \*) Agency Functional Responsibility Phone
No./e-mail]{.underline}

\*Kathleen S. Adam FS Competitive Sourcing 703-605-5316

<kadam@fs.fed.us>

Marlo Allen DOI Competitive Sourcing 202-208-4737

(contractor) <Marlo_Allen@ios.doi.gov>

\*Mark Beighley FS Fire Program 202-205-1501

<mbeighley@fs.fed.us>

\*Mark Boche FS Fire Program 303-275-5736

<mboche@fs.fed.us>

Dan Ertel DOI Competitive Sourcing 202-208-6704

(contractor) <Dan_Ertel@ios.doi.gov>

\*Kurt Gernerd FS Fire Program 703-605-4582 (Kurt was unable to attend
but will be at future meetings) <kgernerd@fs.fed.us>

\*Donna Kalvels DOI Competitive Sourcing 202-219-0727

<Donna_Kalvels@ios.doi.gov>

\*Amy Kishpaugh FWS Fire Program 208-387-5502

<Amy_Kishpaugh@fws.gov>

\*Ava Lee USDA Competitive Sourcing 202-720-1179

<Ava.Lee@USDA.gov>

Kathie Libby BLM Competitive Sourcing 202-557-3566

(contractor - substituting for <Kathie_Libby@blm.gov>

\*Joe Federline, BLM) 202-452-5177

<Joe_Federline@blm.gov>

\*Barb Loving DOI Fire Program 202-606-3108

<Barbara_Loving@ios.doi.gov>

Tom Moomaw BIA Competitive Sourcing 703-390-6464

(substituting for

\*David Brown, BIA) 505-563-3011

<dbrown@bia.edu>

\*Jacqueline Myers FS Competitive Sourcing 202-205-1690

<jmyers01@fs.fed.us>

\*Tom Nichols NPS Fire Program 208-387-5216 <Tom_Nichols@nps.gov>

Judy Smith USDA Competitive Sourcing 202-720-1548

<Judy.Smith@USDA.gov> Denny Truesdale FS Fire Program 202-205-1588

<dtruesdale@fs.fed.us>

\*Kathy Winship FWS Fire Program 208-387-5712

<Kathy_Winship@fws.gov>

**[Review and discussion of Charter.]{.underline}**

-   Will the Charter Group be making decisions on what functions to
    study -- taking this responsibility from the Bureau Directors? We
    discussed the decision-making paragraph and acknowledged that the
    charter group will be making recommendations to Management -- who
    will in turn, make the actual decisions.

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-   In discussing the bi-monthly meetings, we agreed that not all
    meetings have to be held in person. We will strive to use either the
    DOI, USDA, BLM or FS video conference facilities whenever practical
    and will likely meet in person only once or twice a year. For
    planning purposes, proposed meeting dates/times for the next few
    months are listed at the end of the minutes under "Action Items".

-   Meetings of the Charter group will not erase the good work that has
    been done by previous groups. All of the issue papers and decisions
    made to date will stand.

-   We will form a Project Action Team (PAT) to develop a Communications
    Plan for the Charter Group.

**[Determine how we will conduct our meetings.]{.underline}**

Charter Group agreed to the following rules for conduct of our meetings:

-   Publish an agenda with as much specific information as possible

-   Send handouts out prior to the meeting and ask members to bring the
    handouts with them.

-   Read any pre-work assignments and be ready to discuss at the
    meeting.

-   Set specific timeframes and follow them.

-   No cell phones on during the meeting.

-   If you send a substitute to the meeting, make sure they are
    up-to-speed on the issues. Let group know if the substitute has your
    proxy vote or they are just there to listen and take notes. If the
    substitute is just there to listen, there will be no vote cast by
    the absent member on issues addressed during that specific meeting.

-   Guests and non-voting representatives are OK as long as they
    understand their role. When bringing guests, fewer is better than
    more -- we want to conduct our business timely.

-   Make firm commitments with timeframes to follow-up on any assigned
    tasks.

-   Make decisions based on consensus of the group: "Can you live with
    that?"

-   Summarize the action items at the end of the meeting.

-   Allow others to finish talking before you speak. Everyone has good
    ideas and those who are less assertive should be allowed to
    communicate their ideas in their own way. All ideas, questions and
    comments should be addressed if they are pertinent to the subject.

-   Stay focused on the issues and leave personalities and condescending
    remarks out of the discussion.

**[FAIR Act issues.]{.underline}**

We reviewed the latest matrix of fire FTE as well as the recently
developed justification/white paper on senior fire fighters which was
developed at OMB's request. We also reviewed the justifications of
inherently governmental and commercial A -- unsuitable for competition
that were prepared during the '05 inventory and retained in '06.

The group concluded that there is no disagreement with either the matrix
or the justifications between USDA and DOI and the respective bureaus.
However, OMB still has some questions regarding FAIR coding pertaining
to the number of inherently governmental and commercial A. We decided to
appoint a small Project Action Team (PAT) to ensure even more
consistency and accuracy when developing the '07 inventory. This group
will also address the OMB issues that have been identified by USDA and
DOI. See "Action Items" at the end of the minutes for timeframe and
membership.

**[Status of '07 Budget Language/Effect Statements]{.underline}**

Language in the House Mark-up of the '07 Budget on two issues (Cap on
funds spent on Competitive Sourcing competitions and prohibition on use
of funding for competitions on wildland fire FTE). was read aloud and
comments requested.

-   The funding cap is similar to previous years and we concluded that
    we would have to wait and see if the effect statements written to
    delete the cap would be successful. Otherwise, we live within the
    cap.

-   The language prohibiting the use of funds appropriated in '07 to
    begin or continue competitions on wildland fire FTE was discussed at
    greater length since it impacts each Agency's competitive sourcing
    plans for '07.

Both USDA and DOI have written effect statements requesting the removal
of this language. There was speculation as to whether this would happen
and no one knows what the Senate will do with the language when they do
their mark-up at the end of June.

Forest Service mentioned that they have been under investigation by a
House Investigative Team looking into how much funding has been spent on
the competitive sourcing program and the feasibility studies being
accomplished by FS. Even though FS feels they have satisfied the House
Team with backup on spending and savings, it may still be difficult to
get the language prohibiting studies on fire FTE deleted from the
Appropriations Bill.

We decided not to stop planning for the studies and competitions in '07
but to continue and then take the appropriate action based on the
outcome of the budget process. It was pointed out that if we operate
under a Continuing Resolution, we would continue working on preliminary
planning efforts, etc. until the '07 Budget is passed. We would then
change our course of actions based on the Appropriation language passed.

**[Training and Dispatch Studies]{.underline}**

All agreed that these were the two areas to begin planning/feasibility
on asap and continue in '07. Budget issues aside, we decided to form a
Project Action Team (PAT) to flesh out the contracting, funding and
joint management issues associated with these two potential studies.

USDA does not have a problem with preliminary planning and feasibility
studies being different. All agreed they were primarily the same just
semantics. There are a couple of areas like EEO issues covered under
USDA policy that are not in the preliminary planning effort identified
in the Circular (A-76) which DOI uses as its guide to the planning
effort. We can add any additional steps that will coincide with USDA/FS
guidance if DOI is the lead agency on training and USDA/FS is the lead
agency on Dispatch.

See "Action Items" for more information on the PAT.

**[Aviation Update]{.underline}**

Denny Truesdale, FS, provided an update on the Forest Service
feasibility study which is currently underway. Their study group is at a
decision point determining whether it would be better to speed up the
study to complete it by the end of the fiscal year in case the '07
Appropriation language prohibits them from completing it or whether they
should continue to stick to the 12/31 end date since fire season is upon
them. The down side of speeding up the study is that the quality of the
benchmarking could suffer. They are looking at benchmarking based on
California Department of Forestry, NASA, Southwest Airlines and others.
Denny said the question is how fast can you speed up a project like this
and still do it right.

**[RAWS Update]{.underline}**

Kathie Libby updated the group on the progress of the RAWS streamlined
study. Two questions were posed to the Charter Group:

-   The preliminary planning/feasibility effort covered the work
    performed by about 31 FTE from BLM, FS, and NPS. Some on the PWS
    team wanted to expand the scope to include the Forest Service
    Militia. The question was: Should the PWS team expand the study to
    include the Forest Service Militia?

The Charter group advised the RAWS team not to include the militia in
the study.

-   The PWS team also began writing the requirement to include a
    substantial amount of new IT equipment and systems over and above
    what the current budget allows for. These new systems/equipment have
    not been vetted through the 300/300B process. Should the PWS write
    these new requirements into the PWS?

The Charter group advised the RAWS team to delete any new IT
requirements that have not been through proper channels for approval.

Otherwise, the RAWS study is on schedule.

**[ACTION Items]{.underline}**

-   Establish PAT on '06/'07 contracting, budget and management of
    training and dispatch studies. Group suggested a team of 4 people.

ACTION: Team has been formed. Recommendations from team expected by July
21.

Team Members: Bob Kuhn, FS (Lead); Carl Culham, FS; Barb Loving, DOI;
Donna Kalvels,

DOI.

-   Establish PAT to write Communication Plan for Charter Group. We
    suggested a team of 2 people -- one from DOI and one from USDA/FS.

> ACTION: Forest Service representative is Valerie Baca and DOI
> representative is Nancy Guerrero. Nancy and Valerie need to get
> together and establish a timeframe for presenting the draft
> Communications Plan at one of the next Charter meetings. Please advise
> Donna Kalvels on the dates.

-   Establish PAT to work on FAIR Act consistency for '07 inventory.
    Group suggested 4 people.

> ACTION: Forest Service representatives are Kolleen Shelley and Eric
> Roberts. DOI representatives are Mark Koontz (NPS) and Marsha Cash
> (FWS) (both tentative -- will finalize by next Charter meeting). This
> group needs to establish contact, pick a lead and plan to meet in
> early Fall to review '07 inventory and continue to improve accuracy
> and consistency of inventories. Please notify Donna Kalvels of first
> meeting date since DOI and FS may want to send other representatives
> to the first meeting to provide historical perspective (what has
> transpired to date).

**[Other Announcements/Agreements:]{.underline}**

-   Both Agencies and the five Bureaus agreed to contact each other to
    report out on issues that arise from meetings with OMB or others
    that may impact the other entities.

-   DOI has a new Fire Program Examiner (RMO) named Jennifer Hoef.

**[Meeting Dates:]{.underline}**

-   July 24/25 - We will be having a discussion via e-mail and phone to
    take next steps based on the recommendations of the
    Budget/Contracting PAT team. Note for DOI bureaus: This doesn't mean
    that we won't be including training and dispatch FTE on the DOI
    Green Plan due July 21.

-   August 16, 1:30-3:30pm @ DOI

-   October 18, 1:30-3:30pm @ USDA or FS

-   December 13, 1:30 -- 3:30pm @ DOI