\<crew talk\>

Q: Introduce yourself and tell us a little about yourself.

**Malika Asha Sanders:** My name is Malika Sanders. I grew up here in
Selma, Alabama, and I am- I work for the 21^st^ Century Youth Leadership
Movement doing work uh.. to make sure that there is another generation
of leaders who will take the legacy of those who were in the
civil-rights movement, particularly those who were young, who were like
in SNCC, uh.. the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, uhm.. to
continue that legacy, to one, learn about that legacy and then to- to
continue that legacy in their own communities.

Q: What are some of the techniques that you use to reach that goal?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Well, one of the major things that we do is
introduce young people to that history. Uhm.. Particularly in
communities throughout the South, there is very little passing down and
sharing of that history which uh.. we think is- is very dangerous
because if people aren't connected to that uhm.. then it's very
difficult for us to move forward. Uhm.. So the first thing we do is we
introduce young people to that history and we do that through leadership
camps and we have everybody from well-known civil-rights folk to
everyday folk who were part of the movement uh.. come and share some of
that information with the young people, basically tell- telling them
their stories. Uhm.. We've had Rosa Parks and uh.. Jessie Jackson and
uh.. the range of people uhm.. who people know about and then we also
try to make sure that there are young people\-- I mean there are uhm..
elders who were a part of the civil-rights movement from their towns
where they lived. Uhm.. We also do things like freedom tours. Uhm.. We
did a freedom tour that went across the South where young people did
oral history projects, learning and talking to people about- uhm.. about
the civil-rights movement and- which was really interesting because one
of the things that young people said when we asked them to interview
someone in their local town first is we don't know anybody \<laughs\>
uhm.. and they got all frustrated and we d- we don't- how are we
supposed to find these people who were in the civil-rights movement, we
don't know anybody like that, and the next day they came back and they
were like oh, that was my aunt or that was my grandmother or that was
the lady across the street or uh.. that was my mom. Uh.. People they had
grown up with all their lives uhm.. had been heroes and sheroes in the
civil-rights movement uhm.. and they didn't know that they had even
participated uhm.. and a lot of that happens because that history is so
painful for people, uhm.. that to talk about it and to share it is like
sort of, you know, do I have to face all of that again uhm.. but we try
to impress upon people that it is important in spite of the fact that
it's still painful uh.. to share that history so that young people can
grow and develop from that and be inspired to uh.. do work in the 21^st^
century.

Q: When you bring them alive like you did this evening, it looks like
that personalizing seems to help somehow.

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Yes. One of the things that uh.. we have
realized is that uhm.. it has to start with the personal. So if you are
hearing a lot of stuff but you don't know how it relates to you or you
don't see sort of yourself on that continuum between what you're hearing
and your everyday life now, that it's much easier for it to kinda go in
one ear and go out the other. Uh.. So one of the things that we do is to
try to make sure that it's a personal experience and that people
understand. Even in our camps, uhm.. even though we have people to come
and share we also try to do activities that are very closely connected
to uhm.. the thing that they're hearing about. So, for example, uhm.. we
talked about reconstruction, right. Well, we also on that day, on the
day of reconstruction, take young people to the legislature uh.. in
order to see what it means to actually help to make bills. They draft
their own bills, they uhm.. b- get to be the legislators and the media
people and the lobbyists and they actually engage in that. Uhm.. When we
talk about the civil-rights movement, we do a block party called Super
Birthday Tuesdays so that they register- they go out and register people
to vote and they know what the connection is through experience uhm..
between what happens when you register and what happens after somebody's
actually elected so that the information doesn't stop at oh, all I have
to do is register somebody to vote but they actually know what happens
after that and not just know 'cause we give them a sheet of paper or
talk to them but they actually go through the experience themselves. So
we try to do a lot of things that are sort of hands on uhm.. that you-
you feel really connected to what it is that you're learning uhm.. and
it's not just sort of disconnected from you.

Q: You're in an interesting situation where your parents are well-known
activists and you are bringing that to the youth of today. How do you
sit with that? How is that affecting you between those two poles?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Can you say a little bit more?

Q: How is it affecting you to be in that middle zone where you have
parents that we all know and admire and you're kind of sharing their
legacy with youth? You must have a sense of pride and yet you also have
to be provocative and somehow instilling the same kind of lesson and the
same kind of enthusiasm in the new generation, a younger generation than
you.

**Malika Asha Sanders:** \<sighs\> Hmm. Well, it's interesting. I guess
I never really think about uhm.. it just as my parents but I think about
these- a range of elders who I'm connected to uhm.. and who I'm, you
know, learning from and sharing their stories with other young people
and my parents are a part of that. \<laughs\> Uhm.. So I'm, you know,
sort of processing that a little bit. Uhm.. Well, I think the major
thing for me is always certainly a sense of- of pride and a sense of
responsibility, you know. I mean when I think about what my elders and
my parents have gone through uh.. both in terms- in relationship to the
civil-rights movement and what they experienced before the civil-rights
movement uhm.. and leading up to that, I s- I feel a deep sense of
responsibility to continue that work and certainly I can't do that by
myself. \<laughs\> Uhm.. So part of that responsibility is to share that
with other young people, young people who are younger than I am, uhm..
in order to make sure that we all have the opportunity- opportunity to
be prepared. Uhm.. I think one of the things when you hear about the
civil-rights movement is eh.. that it takes uhm.. a lot of character and
a lot of uhm.. dedication and commitment to do the things that they did
and so creating a space where young people can develop that and get in
touch with that within themselves, as well as learn skills, uh.. in
order to make that a reality, you know, how do you organize people, how
do you fund raise, how do you do all of the detail things that it takes
to build a movement. Uhm.. So it essentially\-- I think the biggest
thing for me is a sense of responsibility.

Q: How do you find the new generation?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Uhm.. Well, I th- I think that the new
generation is largely disconnected from the history of that movement, of
the civil-rights movement, and I feel like that's the responsibility of
uhm.. our elders and of my generation and all the generations before
them who have information and who know more about that history to pass
that history along to them uhm.. and I think that this connection
creates a whole lot of challenges because I think it creates some sense
of chaos and confusion so that when things happen to you and you don't
have the history or the context to put it in, that eh.. it- it creates a
tendency for people to implode uhm.. and not to have really clear ways
of dealing with that because they don't have context for it. So it's
like well, is it me, well, you know, what is going on here especially
when it comes to issues of race or racism uhm.. and it's similar I think
with other isms but I think it's very dangerous, that disconnection that
we have, but I also think more and more there are more programs out
there that are trying to connect young people and one of the things that
I found that is very interesting is that young people want to be
connected. You know, it's not like you have to go out and beat people
over the head and say, you know, will you be connected to this. Uhm.. As
a matter of fact, I think one of the things that is interesting about
the organization I work for is it started off with the sharing and as a
result of the sharing young people are like oh, we want to do this, you
know, in our communities how do we deal with this issue in our community
or that issue, how do we do that, how do we\-- You know, we're inspired
so how do we actually make something happening- happen in our
communities as a result of what we now know about our history.

Q: You have traveled a lot. How do you find the rest of the world as
they look in on that struggle and the need to continue that struggle?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Oh, it's really amazing how uhm.. the
civil-rights movement inspired people, you know, across the globe. I
mean when you\-- I- I went- recently came back from South Africa and
people wh- who are here uh.. who most young people would not know about
are heroes over there, \<laughs\> you know. Uhm.. I went over to South
Africa with Reverend Orange and people were just like, you know, in
amazement of him there, you know, constantly talking about how, you
know, those of them who were in the anti-\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
struggle when they were locked down or in prison for years that they
read about him and that they read about what was going on uhm.. in the
civil-rights movement and I think it's uhm.. sad that, you know, you
have to go somewhere else for people to even know their names uhm.. but
I think- I'm- I'm hoping and I'm working to change that.

Q: There are a lot of people that share that goal. Do you find that we
have a kind of renewed commitment to that?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** I feel like it's\-- Uhm.. I do feel like a
renewed commitment is budding because I think it is begi\-- I think one
of the things that happened after the civil-rights movement is that
people just sort of said, \<exhales\> you know. So it's like okay, you
know, the goals that we said that we had, at least the concrete ones,
uhm.. have been met to some extent, you know, we've been through a lot,
let's- let's breathe, and I think one of the things that got- that that
got translated to young people about is well, if you could just get a
good job, if you could just get a good house, if you could just get-
uh.. get this or get that everything'll be all right now and I think
that just kinda eh.. made the disconnect even uhm.. stronger or it- it
widened the gap because when you kinda go off in that direction without
carrying the essence of what the civil-rights movement was about with
you, then it's so much harder to one, see problems when they arise and
certainly to- to make the sacrifice to do something about it so---

Q: Do you see that kind of sacrifice, sense of commitment, courage, in
your students?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Well, eh.., you know, in my field I'm sort of
kind of surrounded by people who have an interest \<laughs\> already
uhm.. which is not necessarily indicative of the masses of people
throughout the ya- the U.S. but being that I do the kind of work that I
do, I often find young people who are really uhm.. fired up. As a matter
of fact, just locally here uhm.. recently an issue came up around race
uh.. and there was a young woman who had gone through 21^st^ Century who
was in college and immediately came home because she wanted to figure
out how not to just talk about the issue but how to actually uh.. help
to solve it and so- and that is not sort of a one-shot example. Uh.. I
often run into young people who want to do something about the problems
they see once they see them. Uhm.. A lot of times young people don't
know where to turn, they don't know, you know, what kind of organization
or where do I go when somethin' happens or how do I actually act on an
issue but generally speakin' I think young people when they eh.. see
that somethin' is wrong and they have some connection to that history
uhm.. will search out ways to try to- to- to try to act on it and if
they have a way, then watch out because they are- they are definitely on
the move. Now I think one of the challenges we have is that\-- \<sighs\>
I- I often said that\-- I often say that if- if it was on the nightly
news every time young people did somethin' to change somethin' in their
community or stood up for themselves in their schools or, you know,
stood up for themselves in their churches, if we saw that all the time
that we would have a- a much greater sense of where- wh- where young
people are in terms of their development and their commitment to
social-justice issues but you rarely see stories about young people when
they're doin' that kind of work and I know it goes on quite a bit
because, you know, if you are connected to it, then you get e-mails
about it, you-, you know, you get in- invited to, you know, stand on the
front lines with people but I think it's j- just very unfortunate that
we- that that doesn't get shared with the uh.. larger society.

Q: It's especially kind of disappointing when we have got a lot of
communication possibilities. I thought you touched on some very good
points about the distractions that youth are facing. I thought you
taught them a few quick skills in questioning themselves that I felt was
very good. Maybe you could amplify that.

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Well, uhm.. I think one of the things that we
found is that young people, especially in a lot of the communities that
we work in, have a lot going on. Uhm.. One, you know, we live in a
society that is kind of, you know, sort of uhm.. quick, fast, in a
hurry, you know, very convenient, you know, can I microwave it, can I
get it in, you know, can I get the fast food, and uhm.. while there's a
lot of wonderful things about multimedia and about things kind of being
fast moving, I think it has kind of made it more challenging for you to
read a book, \<laughs\> you know, or to do things that are- are- are
calmer. Uhm.. So I think that's- that's one of the- one of the
challenges that we face uhm..---

\<crew talk\>

**Malika Asha Sanders:** I'm not sure where---

Q: Distraction, speed.

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Okay, and what was your general question?

Q: My general question is here you see---

**Malika Asha Sanders:** The questioning. Okay. All right. Uhm.. and I
think those kinds of distractions kind of create this sort of- uhm..
along with a lotta school cul- culture kinda take- eh.. kinda creates
this uhm.. way of learning that's sort of like you feed something, you
know what I mean, like it's sort of one way, uhm.. I take in what the TV
is saying, I take in, you know, uh.. what my teacher is saying, and for
me real education is not telling somebody what to think but teaching
them how to think and how to think means you have to question \<laughs\>
uhm.. and so eh.. one of the things that we try to do a lot of is to
create a space where people can do self-reflection, where they can
listen, we call it soulful listening, listen to what other people are
saying and sort of connect dots between, you know, what different people
are saying or what- somethin' that happened to me at the store
yesterday, you know, how do I connect that with eh.. this conversation
we're having now and the information I'm getting now uhm.. and I think
that that kind of thinking and analysis and ability to analyze in that
way is just so key to a democracy. Uhm.. Unfortunately, I feel like
that's getting kind of dumbed down over time so that it's not a major
goal in our society to make sure that people are thinking and
questioning and, you know, tryin' to figure out how different things fit
together and why, you know, is an elected official doin' this instead of
that and, you know. So one of the things that we put a lot of emphasis
on is tryin' to encourage young people to question. Uhm.. We've done
that through different ways, uh.. debates, you know, we have debates
among young people where, you know, there are two different positions
and as a team they try to figure out uhm.. what are the pros and cons on
each side. So we tr- try to do quite a few things to make sure that
young people are questioning. Uhm.. One of the things we talked about
earlier is, you know, what happens if you don't question. You know, you
can't act, you can't do anything different from what already exists if
you don't ask a question, if you don't have a question, and in raisin'
the question then you want to look for solutions, right, you want to,
you know, know how somethin' works in order to change somethin' or to
make somethin' different or make somethin' better. So I think
questioning is key to really being uhm.. a citizen.

Q: The times kind of look like we might be reverting back in many ways
to not only a lack of questioning but kind of an acceptance of a neutral
inertness. Do you find that among these students?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Well, I think initially uh.. a lot of the young
people-, 'cause the work we do is not singing to the choir so it's not
like a situation where we say okay, uh.. young people who are uh.., you
know, already interested in social justice come and join 21^st^ Century.
A lot of what we do is introducing that concept of social justice to
young people uhm.. and I think because of that uhm.. there is a lot of
sort of accepting things as they are uhm.. and so the process is how do
you move from that place of helplessness because I don't think people
accept things as they are uh.. because it's fun or because, \<laughs\>
you know, that's what they really want to do. I think most of the time
when I talk to young people it's like well, will anything else work,
\<laughs\> you know, is it really possible to do something different
uhm.. and I think that's where the idea of collective action comes in
because maybe if it's just you by yourself, you know, it- it- it is very
challenging, it's challenging if it's a group of you but certainly if
it's by yourself it's challenging uhm.. but if you have numbers of
people and you organize people and, you know, you come together as
like-minded people, then there are many things that you can do and
that's why I like the history of the civil-rights movement 'cause it
actually shows you that, you know, you have real, live people who can
talk about their experiences and talk about overcomin' odds that no-
nobody thought that they could overcome includin' themselves in many
cases, you know what I mean, and so the whole idea that you could look
at somethin' you can envision somethin', and have people think that's
impossible, there's no way in the South we're gonna have voting rights,
that's impossible, there's no way in the South there will be
desegregation and then have people come together and just eh.. dig deep
down in themselves and find the faith and the commitment and the
willingness to sacrifice and the courage to do it anyway and then
actually have that vision begin to unfold is so powerful to me and I
think that that is- uhm.. is missing from a lot of our sos- society
today uhm.. and so- but I also think the young people are the most
likely to get it, that if the history gets shared and there's some
context for what it is that they go through on a day-to-day basis, then
the possibility for an awakening uh.. among them is really great.

Q: Listening this evening, it looks like conformity is a big trap that
seems to occupy their minds. How do you turn conformity to conviction,
that personalized---

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Well, I think there are a lot of pieces to the
conformity piece. I think one, we live in a society and a system that
says you conform. I mean that's what makes up systems, you\-- If- If it
doesn't conform, then you kick it out, right, 'cause that's what a
system is. Uhm.. So I think we live in a society that generally wants
people to conform. I think that age group is- uhm.. is a age group eh..
where conformity among peers is part of the developmental process
\<laughs\> and I think uhm.. that there are a lot of things,
particularly in the black community and also in the white community and
other communities, that hasn't gotten healed. F\-- You know, over the
past 40 years there has never been that I know of a concerted effort to
make sure that the wounds of the past got healed and so that means in
our interactions, in our da- everyday interactions both within our
communities and ab- cross communities, uhm.. that we take all of the
pain and the challenges and the problems that existed before the
civil-rights movement that happened durin' the civil-rights movement, we
bring all of that into our interactions today so that conformity in a
lot of ways is a protective mechanism, i- it is a way to protect
ourselves so that we don't have to uhm.. risk more pain or and in some
cases it's a way that we take the pain that we have and unfortunately
pass some of that on to others and I think all of that is based in fear.
Uhm.. I think fear is- is the key thing and one of the things that- that
strikes me about living in Selma is the- eh.. the amount of fear. I mean
fear is a huge factor here and a lot of that fear even among adults is
around not wanting to stand out, not wanting to have people talk about
you or to look at you funny or to, you know, treat you differently.
Uhm.. So I think young people see that quite a bit in their parents as
well.

Q: You're just back from South Africa you mentioned. I think a lot of us
admire Desmond Tutu and the Truth Commission and that approach to kind
of somehow working with those wounds and coming to grips with the past.
Would that work in our country?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** \<sighs\> This is a very interesting question.
I just back from Ghana too \<laughs\> and there was a lot of question, a
lot of discussion, among people around Truth and Reconciliation. Uhm..
Even in South Africa, I think that Truth and Reconciliation commissions
are best employed when there has really been a major shift in the power
dynamics because I think otherwise it can easily be turned into sort of
a Band-Aid kind of thing. Uh.. One of the things that I- when uh.. in
South Africa that brings this up for me is you had a situation where
people had committed great atrocities, was a- were able to say this is
what I did and have that be the end of it and for me at the very least
that should be a beginning because if you continue to try to situate
yourself where you have all of the resources or the majority of the
resources, you know, mineral rights and all kinds of things, then a part
of the other group has to question whether or not you really want to
reconcile, are you-, you know, is this truth really leading to a healing
process uhm.. and there was a lot of nervousness about that when I went
to South Africa. Uh.. There was a lot of nervousness about whether white
South Africans uhm.. were really ready for a new South Africa and so I
have a hard time putting that together, you know what I mean, like if-
if truth and re\-- If- If you are\-- If we are at a place where truth
and reconciliation can really work, then we gotta all really eh.. honor
the fact that we're h- all human beings and we all have needs and we
have to be committed to making sure that every human being has their
basic needs met and I wasn't sure that- that that had completely
happened in South Africa. Uhm.. So in a nutshell \<laughs\> uhm.. I
think eh.. truth and reconciliation has to be a part of a process and
not the process in and of itself, not in the ways that we have seen it
done previously.

Q: It does seem like you can acknowledge progress but maybe there wasn't
enough healing, there wasn't enough conjoining, that there's still a lot
of suspicion. I even heard that this evening where they would even
question their white friends or that the suspicions are kind of still
there, that we haven't really, honestly faced each other and chatted it
up to the point where you're revealing your innermost---

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Uh huh. Uh huh. Well, I definitely think that
that's somethin' that has to happen in the United States. Uhm.. I think
that the more situations and gatherings and processes that we can create
where people of all races can come together and really, really have
honest conversation uhm.. has transformative power within it. I think
that kind of honesty\-- You know, I've been in several situations now
uhm.. and gatherings where that has happened and the way that it shifts
the relationships is so amazing and the very thing that people have sort
of been hiding and tryin' to keep away because they think it would
destroy a relationship actually uhm.. enhances and allows the
relationship to be authentic and to be sincere and to grow and develop.
Uh.. So I definitely think that being honest with one another in a
loving way is extremely important if the United States and if racial
dynamics in the United S- States is to ever change and if we're ever to
have real healing. Uhm.. I'm not sure that we've done that, you know. I
know that we haven't done that, not in a mass kind of way. Uhm.., You
know, when I\-- I've had several experiences even here in Selma when I
have gone to talk to a white citizen of Selma about something, just
tryin' to understand like w- where a certain position they've taken
comes from and there's still this sense that this is the way things are
because you're different and I think that comes from\-- I think the- the
reason people con- continue to feel that way, even people who consider
themselves to be liberal and not racist and- uhm.. is because the
barrier has never been fully broken down and I think part of that is not
being honest, not having those real honest conversations, uhm.. and I'm
still lookin' to do that in Selma.

Q: What are some of the take-home messages from the voting-rights march
for young people that they should get out of it?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** The Selma to Montgomery march?

Q: Right.

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Okay. Well, one of my\-- One of the most
inspiring messages for me is that those things that we perceive to be
impossible are truly possible but you can't wish them into being, you
have to actually get out there and do something about it even when
you're scared, even when you don't know it will turn out, even when
you're, you know, nervous about what your friends will think, uhm.. that
when we overcome all of those things that we can make amazin' things
happen and we don't have to be Dr. Martin Luther King to do it. Uhm.. We
can just be who we are and joining with other people who are courageous
like we are or who are willing to be c- have courage uhm.. can make
things change and another thing is that the Selma to Montgomery march
was a beginning, the passing of the 1965 Voting Rights Act was a
beginning. We cannot think that you have somethin' like a law come into
place and then you can kind of leave it at that and there's no other
work to be done. That's really a beginning for us to really eh.. make
sure that democracy is real uhm.. and I think far too often we think
it's an end and that's why we have young people who are disconnected
from voting in the first place because the ball I think was kinda
dropped by people after that, the sense of urgency about why we're
voting and the sense of vision about how we create a new world with our
vote. Uhm.. I think a lot of that got dropped and I think that young
people h- we have to see ourselves\-- Eh.. Eh.. Young people have to see
themselves as the next generation to pick up that baton and to make the
essence of what people were fighting for real because a lotta times
people get confused. They think that people were\-- They were- They were
really fighting to make sure that they could go to a certain water
fountain. They were really fighting to make sure that they could sit
where they wanted to on the bus but I think that those things are really
sort of uhm.. m- more of the context that people were fighting in. Those
were the things that were- were blocking their way but the essence was
really about how do I get treated as a whole human being, how do I get
honored as a whole human being, how does my family, my husband, my wife,
my children, how do I make sure that they can leave the household and
still walk out into love and not be degraded or how do I not walk in
fear about what will happen to my child or- and- and I don't think that
we have reached that goal. I think we're still- uh.. that's still a work
in progress uhm.. and so that means that there's work to be done and I
think that young people are- have to be an integral part of that. When I
think about the SNCC workers, I think about like, you know, the- the
freedom rides and when things began to break down and the older folk
just couldn't take it anymore, then they had to pick up the baton and
say you know what, we're gonna move forward on this anyway because if we
stop now then all of the work that they did will be in vain, it will go
right down the drain, and I think we're at a similar point eh.. now that
if young people do not rise up, stand up, recognize what's going on in
larger numbers, what's going on or- in this country was going on
internationally, then we stand to let those who went before us down and
the sacrifices that they made uhm.. we- we could certainly make some of
that in vain.

Q: Some even suggest we kind of might have stumbled. We're not voting in
great numbers, the youth is the lowest sector of the population, and I
remember this evening kind of it's good to be reminded that voting
rights are critical still today, that there is an importance to the
vote. Maybe you could express some of the importance of voting.
Sometimes the struggle is easy if you're going to have a big, fat
confrontation that everybody understands. Now that it's a little more
subtle, we don't seem to be able to promote the vote. A lot of effort
has been made to promote the vote.

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Well, I think\-- \<sighs\> I think it's just
very hard for a lot of people to see the connection between what happens
when they vote and the impact of that on their life and a lot of other
people's lives. Uhm.. I just feel like there's a huge disconnect there,
you know. It's like okay, you know, I go into the polls, I vote for this
person and then what, you know what I mean, like uh.. there's- there's
no\-- For most people there's no connection between- and especially for
young people, like it's hard to get what happens after you elect this
person, like exactly\-- Okay, so now I did that and-, \<laughs\> you
know what I mean, uhm.. and I actually think that while it would be a
different kind of movement I think the way to shift that is through the
building of a movement. I think we have to engage eh.. mass numbers of
people to not only vote but to also stay connected to the process after
they have made the vote, to- to want to know what is going on with this
person I've elected, you know, what decisions did they make that I
agreed with, what decisions that I- did they make that I didn't agree
with, how do I keep 'em accountable, uhm.. and I think that kind of
engagement has the potential t- to shift that. The more of us who are
engaged in that kind of way, uhm.. I think the more people will see a
connection between the person that they've elected and what they
actually do afterwards but I think right now we have a situation where
it's like okay, I voted for this person, eh.. let me go on to the next
thing, you know, I have all these other things to do in life. So you
don't even think about them really again until somebody does some news
story about them \<laughs\> on TV or until it's reelection time and
they're back, you know, comin' to ask for your vote again. So eh.. yeah.
Let me just say this. Young people are very uhm.. what is the
result-oriented kind of people in my opinion. So it's like well, if I do
this \<laughs\> what am I gonna get from it, how is it gonna change
anything, why does it matter, and I don't think we do a very good job as
a s- as a society in sharing uhm.. what the result is, what the impact
is. I think people who are very in- eh.. invested like I think
corporations, they know exactly\-- You know, if I lobby this person, we
need this law to happen in order to eh.. make this much more money. So
there's a very direct connection and I don't think that that kind of
connection has been nurtured uhm.. in large numbers particularly for
young people, that kind of connection I think is missing. So we have to
figure out how- how to m- help make that connection and how to create a
space where young people can begin to make that connection for
themselves. Uhm.., You know, like if- if somethin' happened where there
was a law that was gonna change whether or not you could drive at 16,
right. That's the kind of thing that I think you could get a lotta young
people, you know, riled up and tryin' to figure out how to vote about
because it's very personal to them, it's- uhm.. there's a direct
connection and it's a good way to say well, if you vote for this person
this is the way they plan to vote, if th- if you vote for this person,
this is the way they plan to vote, but I think it has to be that kind of
concrete I know how it relates to me, \<laughs\> I know how voting will
impact the fact that it relates to me and so therefore I will vote
because that will give me the opportunity to make sure that it has the
impact that I want. Do you understand? It's that kind of direct
connection that I think matters. I think sort of oh, well, you know, if
I vote for this person, this is who my mom likes \<laughs\> or this is
who my dad likes or, you know, I mean eh.. I don't think that that's
enough to inspire large numbers of young people uhm.. to vote and so we
gotta figure out how to make that connection more concrete but I think
one of the ways we do that is just to build a lot of energy and a lot of
movement around what it takes beyond the actual voting process, after
you vote, how do you actually influence getting what it is you need for
your community from the person you've elected, and it's that kind of
engagement that makes it concrete.

Q: What are the new frontiers, the new issues, the new challenges?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Well, I think eh.., you know, eh.. there are
quite a few around voting itself and elected officials uhm.., you know,
about how do we keep them accountable, uhm.. how do we find the
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ selections, how do we ensure that elected officials
can come from all the different walks of life, that you don't have to be
wealthy to be an elected official. Uhm.. I think there are challenges in
terms of how some of our electoral processes are set up uhm.. so that
for example if you get large numbers of young people involved, there are
certain things that, you know, would still uhm.. adversely impact young
people's participation and I think we have to think clearly about how to
change those things. I think that there are a lot of issues around uhm..
the numbers of young people and people of color in prisons. Uhm.. Eh..
We have\-- This is a society that essentially says forget
rehabilitation, \<laughs\> forget tryin' to heal anything, just lock up
folk and th- that then becomes a way of making money for a lot of people
because you have the privatization of prisons, uhm.. you have ways that
prisoners, you know, create a certain kind of workforce or labor force
and I think that's one of the challenges a lot of young people that I
talk to are really uh.. interested in and concerned about. You have
things like felony, uhm.. the- the voting rights restoration uhm.. among
felony conv- uh.. people who have been convicted of uhm.. a felony crime
which eh.. like in a state like Alabama 30% of black male voters can't
vote in this con- in this state because of the laws around uhm.. voting
rights and felony convictions. Uhm.. So there's been a lot of- uh.. a
lot of discussion and some movement around tryin' to change that kind of
situation uh.. in Alabama. I think there are issues of how we share
wealth. Uhm.. This is the richest country in the world. There's just
really no excuse in my mind for there to be homeless people. You know,
it just- it just doesn't add up to me, uh.. the idea that one person can
have so much money that that they can't s- they can't spend it in their
lifetime, their children can't spend it in their lifetime, and then you
have somebody who doesn't have a place to stay, who is tryin' to figure
out how they're gonna feed their children tonight, who\-- You know, I- I
mean that- that is a major concern for me. Uhm.. There are challenges
around how do we\-- We've\-- Uh.., You know, uh.. in this conversation
we've talked quite a bit about h- healing processes. Uhm.. How do we
move\-- How do we first acknowledge the history because I think that's a
big thing in this country, like the whole debate about\-- I remember
somebody had raised earlier when Clinton tried to make the apology or
there was this debate about whether he was gonna make an apology for
slavery or somethin' and it was a debate. I'm like first-graders know
\<laughs\> that if you do somethin' wrong you apologize, there's-
there's no debate, uhm.. and I think that that comes from a place of- of
not wanting to acknowledge, of shame, of saying well, if we acknowledge,
then uh.., you know, is that- uh.. do we open up a can of worms but the
bottom line is if the worms are there already and we're just kinda
suppressing them and- and not really dealing with them, then we're
probably creating- we're probably bein' more destructive uhm.. and it
would be much better to heal the situation. Uh.. I think a lot of people
are calling out for reparations at this point and I think a lot of that
is about one, the idea that if- to even engage that subject we have to
uhm.. have some honest discussions with one another about that history.
Uhm.. I think it's also a question of how do we make sure that some kind
of healing process that is sincere and- and deep, that has depth,
actually takes place because when we just keep pretending that things
are okay, I think it has a destructive impact on all of us. Uhm.. Let me
see. Other issues.

\<crew talk\>

Q: We've developed this program "Never Lose Sight of Freedom" and we
hope it's going to have a life after the movie. We're working on a
resource package and what would you like to see included? What would you
like to say to the young people that are hopefully gonna benefit from
this program?

**Malika Asha Sanders:** We need you. \<laughs\> Uhm.. That the struggle
for justice and peace and truth, that that struggle needs every young
person uhm.. who believes in those things uhm.. and- and that even if
they haven't realized it yet that they need that struggle, that the
future will be what we make it and that working for the struggle for
justice uhm.. gives each of us an opportunity to make- to create the
future that we want and that we've come a long way but we have a whole
long way to go and that we can either stand still, we can move backwards
or we can move forward and that that's really up to them, that's really
a decision that each of them have to make. I think the other thing that
I would like to share is that there is this sense that I can just make
it by myself, you know, that if I just get the things I'm dreaming of
that- that that's enough and many times people, you know, get to be 50,
60 years old and they realize that it's not and feel trapped, you know,
like there's nothing that they can do, they're already in this
particular career path or they-, you know, uhm.. and so there's an
emptiness a lot of times and I'd just like to encourage young people to-
to really think hard about if you just- if you just go out there for
yourself just to have the things that you want, will that really be
enough, will that really fulfill you as a whole person uhm.. and also
just to see our interdependence. There's this exercise that I started to
do today \<laughs\> that where all- everybody holds hands and, you know,
the idea is you tell one person to put their hand up, did you all do
this with Mr. Sanders today, okay, uhm.. \<laughs\> where you put\-- You
know, you're holding hands and you ask the p- people to put their right
hand up and then every hand goes up because they're connected and then
you say well, put your left hand down and then every hand goes down
because everybody's collect- connected and then you say well, try to put
your right hand while puttin' the person's hand next to you down uhm..
and then there's this sort of tug of war, right, and the whole idea is
that our fates are connected, that if you think you can be good to your
family and then treat other people any kind of way and that won't have
an impact on your family, that that's a mistake and that as you lift
your family and the people around you who are closest to you that one of
the ways you lift yourself and others is to lift others uhm.. and I
guess the last thing is, you know, not to wait. Let's not wait on
another Martin Luther King to come, another\-- You know, let's not wait
because eh.., you know, as we said earlier that we are the ones that
we've been waiting for, that we have to get out there and change things
and want to have a vision, you know. It's one thing\-- You know, if you
know where you're going, if you have a destination\-- You may not have
directions but if you h- know where you're going you can always stop and
ask, oh, well, you know, how do I get here or how do I get there but if
you don't even know where you're going, then it's almost impossible for
you to get there. You just kinda keep goin' around in circles 'cause you
don't know where you're goin' \<laughs\> uhm.. and so I think we have to
get clear. Young people in particular have to get clear about w- what
kind of world do we want to live in, you know, when we're 40 or 50 or 60
or s\-- What do we want the world to be like when we're raising our
children, what do we want the world to be like, and how do we take steps
right now to do that. Uhm.. Some of the m\-- You know, I was talking to
somebody earlier today about the Brown decision and one of those cases
that made up the five cases uh.. that came before the Supreme Court was
of this 15-year-old girl who organized her whole school and shut it
down, you know, tricked her principal out of the school, uhm.. got all
the teachers to bring the students into the- to the uhm.. auditorium and
started talkin' about what she was tired of, \<laughs\> I'm tired of the
history teacher bein' the bus driver, I'm tired of not havin' heat, I'm
tired of havin' these books that are hand-me-down books, I'm tired of
this and I'm tired of that, and if you're with me get up and walk out of
the school \<laughs\> and that case eventually helped to create
desegregation, you know, across the South and in part that was because
of this young teenage girl who got tired \<laughs\> and who had a vision
for what it would look like if she didn't have- if she and her fellow
students didn't have to go through that every day and went for it. So I
think one of the major things is to have a vision, have s- have an idea
about what it is you could do to make your life better and how would it
look if it was better uhm.. which is- I think is a matter of hope and
one of the issues uh.. that I think people struggle around is hope, you
know, just havin' enough hope to dream that something could be different
uhm.. is very challengin' I think uhm.. and you would think that young
people would refuel sort of with this hope for the future uhm.. but more
and more a lot of the young people that I come in contact with have sort
of fed into certain ideas like, you know, I'm not gonna make it to be 25
anyway uhm.. which is a very painful kind of belief to hold uhm.. but is
very common among uhm.. young black men who have been oppressed for a
very long time. There's just this idea that I won't make it to 25 anyway
so how do I dream of changin' the world if I don't even feel like I'm
going to- to be alive uhm.. and so one of the things is not to believe-,
you know, don't believe the hype as they say, uhm.. the whole idea that
you won't be around, that you can't make it, that you uhm.. are just
gonna have a miserable life anyway so why try to make things different,
the idea that you can't change anything which is very common. It's like
uh.. it's not gonna change anyway \<laughs\> uhm.. and to just know that
if those people before us not only believed that but allowed that to be
what drove them, then we wouldn't be where we are now so---

Q: Thank you, Malika.

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Uh huh.

Q: You're an inspiration to us all.

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Thank you.

Q: I appreciate it and I'm sorry we kept you---

**Malika Asha Sanders:** Oh, that's okay. \<laughs\>

Q: I just hope you\--

\#### End of Tape A31 \####