CDF International Finance Committee Meeting (October 30, 2007)

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Attendance: Bock (FNAL-PPD), Dosselli (INFN), Ferroni (INFN), Guibellino
(INFN), Shinhong Kim (Tsukuba, Japan-CDF, video), Donghee Kim (Korea -
CDF), Konigsberg (U. Florida-CDF), Kuhr( Karslruhe - CDF),
Kotwal(Duke-CDF), Lancaster (UK-CDF-video), Lucchesi (Padova-CDF),
Montgomery (FNAL-directorate), McCubbin (RAL-STFC, UK), Pordes(FNAL-CD),
Riska (Finland), Ristori (INFN Pisa CDF), Roser (FNAL-CDF), Ruiz
(Spain-CDF)-video, Snider (FNAL-CD), Wagner (Karlsruhe-Germany),
Warburton (Toronto, Canada - CDF), Wilson (FNAL PPD CDF).

Apologies: Clark (Switzerland - CDF)

**CDF International Finance Committee Meeting**

**Time: Tuesday, October 30, 2007\
Location: Snakepit, 2nd Floor NE Corner, Wilson Hall**

**Agenda and Talks:**

  ------- ------------------------------------------- ------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Time Topic                                       Speaker          Talk   
                                                                    

  09:00   Welcome and Lab Perspective                 H. Montgomery [[ppt]{.underline}](http://www-cdf.fnal.gov/physics/ifc/2007-10-30/mont.ppt)

  09:30   CDF Detector Operations Status and Physics  R. Roser      [[ppt]{.underline}](http://www-cdf.fnal.gov/physics/ifc/2007-10-30/roser.ppt)
          Highlights                                                

  10:15   Operations Budget and Plans                 M. Lindgren   [[ppt]{.underline}](http://www-cdf.fnal.gov/physics/ifc/2007-10-30/lindgren.ppt)

  10:30   Break                                                     

  11:00   Computing Highlights, Status, and Plans     D. Lucchesi   [[pdf]{.underline}](http://www-cdf.fnal.gov/physics/ifc/2007-10-30/donatella.pdf)

  11:45   Computing Budget                            R. Snider     [[pdf]{.underline}](http://www-cdf.fnal.gov/physics/ifc/2007-10-30/snider.pdf)

  12:00   Statements from Agencies & Discussions      All           

  12:30   Working Lunch                                             

  13:30   Adjourn                                                   
  ------- ------------------------------------------- ------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*e-mail to [[Rob Roser and Jaco
Konigsberg]{.underline}](mailto:roser@fnal.gov,konigsb@fnal.gov)\
return to [[IFC
homepage]{.underline}](http://www-cdf.fnal.gov/physics/ifc/)*

All talks are available at:

[**http://www-cdf.fnal.gov/physics/ifc/2007-10-30/**](http://www-cdf.fnal.gov/physics/ifc/2007-10-30/)

**Montgomery -- Welcome/Fermilab: Operations and Outlook**

There was a query about when in 2008 the decision about 2010 running
will be made. At the time, it was thought that spring/summer would be
the timeframe, based on discussions with the extant P5.

 

**Rob Rose**r: **CDF Detector Operations Status and Physics Highlights**

Some numbers given included that CDF has presented 17 Wine & Cheese
Seminars at FNAL.

Rob pointed out that 2008 will not see a doubling of the integrated
luminosity.

Rob painted a fairly convincing picture of the effort resources in the
experiment.

On several physics measurements, they are getting to quite stringent
uncertainties, for example, for the top mass, the uncertainty is now so
small that systematic effects, which were previously negligible, must
now be evaluated.

There was discussion of the new P5. At the time, the membership was
expected to change 2/3 of its membership. The Chair had been chosen, but
was not known to anyone in the room.

The discussion of the Higgs sensitivity generated considerable interest
and discussion.

**Mike Lindgren: Operations Budget and Plans.**

CDF under spent on operations in 2007 and hence there was discussion of
the credit due to contributors,

**Scrutiny: Paolo Giubellino -- chair of the scrutiny group.**

 

Paolo reported that all of the comments raised in the Scrutiny Group
meeting the day before had already received responses.

CDF has made the job easy by maintaining a relatively stable level of
costs and number of people. In fact the cost of tapes is down from the
estimates.

One overall concern had been that the experiment is aging; however that
concern had been addressed rather convincingly. It is not expected that
there will be any particular hits in the next few years so the costs
will likely go down. It is not anticipated that there will be a need for
new adjustments since the luminosity is expected to be rather stable at
the level of the current highest luminosity.

An exception is the cost of gas, which might increase by a factor of
two. However, it does not substantially change the overall picture that
costs are under control.

Paolo also noted that the Collaboration has been very cooperative in
this process.

In turn, the Chair of the IFC appreciates very much the efforts of the
Scrutiny Group and especially those of Paolo, the Chair.

**Donatella Lucchesi: Computing Highlights, Status, and Plans**

Donatella discussed the generations of CDF software. At Gen 7, there are
improvements to the tracking to use a L00 attachment in the forward
region as well as in the central. As a result the execution time goes up
and the goal is to limit this to a factor 1.3. Currently they are not
fully saturating the Fermigrid accessible resources

There are also many centers, across the world, which continue to ask CDF
to use their resources because it gives them real jobs to test their
systems. They have committed resources at the level of 1-2% of the
installed LHC resources. They would like to move more of the MC work
done locally out to remote sites.

**Rick Snider: Computing Budget**

 

Computing needs are currently projected to be lower than previously
estimated. This is, in part, due to prudent use of the DAQ bandwidth.

**Comments from Funding Agencies:**

 

**Japan (Shin Hong Kim)**

The experiment is continuing to produce great results and this will
continue. Extended run into 2010 will be very important. Shinhong will
talk to Takasaki (KEK, Dep. Dir.) abou2010 operations and will ask for
support.

**INFN (Nando Ferroni)**

Nando said that INFN likes very much what CDF is doing; one can measure
the success in the eyes of the people in the LHC experiments. He is
happy with the Italian groups and the computing and the trigger, he can
point to fruitful collaboration and will keep as much support as at
present. They are trying to provide an additional three post-docs for 18
months.

In computing there is help for 2008 and 2009.

As far as 2010 is concerned Nando thinks we should run because LHC is
coming late. In 2010, things will be competitive so we should run.

**Dosselli**

Is very pleased with CDF; as long as it remains an experiment with
physics reach and has INFN people, then INFN will support it.

He believes we should run in 2010 because he believes that we will be
competitive.

**UK/STFC (Norman McCubbin)**

This is a tremendously rich effort (also here for DZero) these are
really the golden year of an experiment, the late middle.

For the people that count beans, 1 paper/week dominating results in
physics.

Great! Congratulations to the machine people.

From the world view, we should run in 2010, from the funding agency
point of view, they are open to arguments. It\'s not impossible. If the
groups want to run then STFC will listen. The process requires a bid
from the UK groups.

**UK Groups (Mark Lancaster)**

The intent is to stay involved. They may need to be imaginative to keep
their post-docs. They will put in the bid to run.

**Spain (Alberto Ruiz)**

They are happy with the development. The support from the funding agency
for 2010 is OK, but it depends a lot on the institutions. The feeling is
positive, but it is also important to know in advance. They need a
decision but in general will support.

**Germany (Thomas Kuhr)**

Karlsruhe wants to continue, especially in the b physics sector; they
can have students for the next three years. The high pT case is more
difficult.

Funding ends in mid-2008, the push to the LHC will make things more
difficult but they want to keep participation for 2009-2010.

**Korea (Kim)**

With respect t 2010, they intend to finish CDF in 2013. Recently, two
more institutions joined. There is the KISTI collaboration on computing.
The manpower will continue unchanged.

**Finland (Dan Risk)**

They are very pleased. They have received support for computing which
also serves ALICE and CMS, but they expect CDF to be able to get its
share. There is a manpower issue with one of their post-docs recently
taking a tenure position in Antwerp. They will stay through 2009 but LHC
and FAIR are taking considerable funding. He considers that the 2010 run
looks logical.

Jaco commented that we should be mindful of funding cycles, but no-one
was keen on having an interim meeting before fall 2008.