\>\> M. Shumaker: Welcome back to our Sherpa for reclamation bonds
class. We just had some lunch and we\'re still learning to talk again
obviously. When we left at lunch we were working on input screens, which
sounds really exciting. We\'ll be getting back into it here pretty
quick. Apparently Murphy\'s law was alive and well during our last
broadcast. Not only did we have problems with the software, but
apparently a few offices in Montana lost the broadcast altogether or
things got garbled. I hope you\'re back with us now. Keep in mind this
class will be available as a self‑study package in the fairly near
future. If things go south on you, you will be able to make it up later.
Now, if you thought of any questions during lunch, this would be a good
time to call, fax or send us a push‑to‑talk ‑‑ we\'ll get this right
eventually ‑‑ do a push‑to‑talk. In the meantime, Scott,
Mr. Murrellwright, Mr. Scott Murrellwright, do you have anything to
interject before we get going?

\>\> S. Murrellwright: I would just like to drop back in time a little
bit here and go back to 2003 and thank the Oregon state office and Mike
Sweeney who really initiated this whole Sherpa adventure that we\'re
embarking on right now. So, again, thank you, Oregon state office, for
your initiating with a we\'re involved in today. Thank you. Matt?

\>\> M. Shumaker: During lunch one of the viewers in California, Randy
porter, mentioned that just about any hardware store has a little book
called the pocket REF, and I\'m sure most of you have seen them at the
checkouts. The pocket REF has a section on the properties of materials,
such as average bulk densities and so forth. That\'s another place you
can look for them. Well, Scott, you ready to start up again?

\>\> S. Stebbins: No, Matt. Thanks for asking, though.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Will you do it anyway?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Oh, sure. What did we learn in the first hour? We
learned about the kind of information you need to plug into the program
to get up and running. We learned a little bit about the types of input
that the program will select. But I\'m going to go right to the big
thing we learned which I know something ‑‑ you knew all along, if you
want to debug a program, try to demonstrate it to people, particularly
on television. What happened in that particular scenario with we
couldn\'t get lived that piece of equipment is this\... we started from
a saved file. I pulled a file back in, the tutorial and tried to add a
piece of equipment and get rid of another piece of equipment. When you
save a file in the program, those pieces of equipment are in there for
good. The program assumes you pretty much set up your model and you\'re
going on from then. But still, I\'m not satisfied with the way that all
transpired. So I will go in and look and try to make sure the program
does exactly what you would expect it to do in that scenario. We had one
question which I thought was a great question come in just at the end
from Mark Chatterton was it? Or ‑‑ the question was essentially, if you
have three trucks in the scenario where you have three trucks and you
have one loader, will the time that the loader that is calculated for
loader use ‑‑ will it account for delays in trucks getting back to be
loaded? That\'s a great question, Mark. I think it was Mark, anyway.
There\'s a couple different ways to look at this. I can\'t just say no,
but there is no optimization package in Sherpa for Reclamation Bonds.
There is in the surface mining package where we put in some kind of haul
distance, haul profile, production rate thing. The program will go
through and make sure that the loader is matched to the truck size in a
way to where it doesn\'t have to wait for trucks to show up. Now, my
assumption in building the algorithms for this program was that that
optimization would have essentially ‑‑ for the most part, would have
taken place with just a minor amount of adjustment, of course, but of
course, the reason you would have three trucks is so you would minimize
the amount of time the loader waits. So essentially, no, there is no
optimization procedure in this package, and it\'s very easy for you to
select the wrong sized loader and the wrong sized truck. That algorithm
is really way beyond what I assumed would be the application of this
program.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Keep in mind that this program is intended for use to
basically calculate or estimate a reclamation bond cost, and that\'s
going to be very early in the Lifecycle of the mine you\'re looking at,
and if things go bad enough that you\'re going to have to lift the bond
and use the money, it\'s going to be kind of hard to predict up front
just exactly where you\'re going to station the loader and exactly where
the trucks are going to go to and from. You can get a good idea. And
that\'s what I\'m hoping we\'re getting here. By the way, that question,
came in from mark Gingrich in Winnemucca.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Sorry. Got the name wrong. But it\'s a great question.
As I say, I\'m not opposed to putting the algorithm in this but it kind
of becomes a whole new program at that point. If we\'re going to start
optimizing ‑‑ the big thing about this program, the reason we were able
to do it in the time frame and for the cost that we did it for is that,
we, like you ‑‑ let you choose the equipment. We let you size the
equipment. You would essentially be responsible for going ‑‑ if you had
a situation where you were going to need more than one truck, which
isn\'t an unusual situation, of course, we would expect that you would
have gone through some procedures to optimize, and optimize may be too
big a word, but essentially you have some idea of the cycle times
necessary and match them properly so the loader would spend little time
waiting. Of course, in the loader cycle time there is an allowance for
waiting for trucks to back in and set up and switch out and then the
next one come in and set up. That, of course, is in there for ‑‑ on one
end for each time a truck comes in but as far as optimizing and making
sure of that, that\'s been more left up to you at this point. I\'m happy
discuss that with these guys, whether we should think about
optimization. But it\'s a big step. And if you want to ‑‑ I mean, I\'m
sounding like a sales pitch. If you want a program that optimizes doing
that, and ‑‑ as you understand, I\'m sure it\'s an elaborate procedure,
it\'s a queuing procedure, and it can be quite intense but it\'s
contained in the surface mining program we have. It\'s such a good
question, I wanted to answer it and maybe not to your satisfaction. Let
me know. Maybe we can talk about it off camera. I love that question.
You guys know what you\'re talking about, no doubt about it. Anyway, we
should get back to it unless there\'s any other questions.

\>\> M. Shumaker: If you do have a question let us know straightaway and
we\'ll do our best to answer. I believe we left off at slide 725 and are
we now starting with slide 726?

\>\> S. Stebbins: We are starting with slide 726. Thank you, Matt, for
playing. Please play again. Program utilities, screen utilities, is with
a we\'re going to talk about now. Let\'s go to our computer screen, and
what we want to do. First of all, if you have this up, get down to the
clear data here and we\'ll get rid of the tutorial file so we won\'t
have anything else confuse us. Click on that, and that will bring did
get rid of the file that\'s brought up in the program right now, and
then move over to the data entry menu. Let\'s go down to closures. Click
on that. And submenu comes up for the various types of closures that are
available in the program. Let\'s go up to ADITS. We\'ll bring up a
screen to look at the screen utility. Click on that. There\'s our ADITS
screen. Let\'s see what is provided in the program to improve its
utility for you, make life easier for you hopefully. The first thing we
should look at are the job numbers down here. Let\'s go down to the
lower right‑hand corner. So, for each one of these screens, and
essentially every unit process, every unit work task in the ‑‑ that\'s
contained in the program will have a separate screen. Because generally
there are very often more than one such job or task available ‑‑ or
required at each site, let\'s say ‑‑ let\'s put it in English, why
not ‑‑ at a particular site you might have four ADITS, so you will have
to, if possible, estimate the cost of closing four different openings.
That\'s what that job number thing is there for. For each one, if you
don\'t have too many of them, anyway, you select and start a new job. So
that\'s what that job number thing is about there. Now, for each job,
every time you go to a new job, you want to enter a job label. I think
I\'ve spoken about this before. The point of the job label is that it
will, when you get to the results screen, it will label the costs you
will calculate when you are doing this screen. If you don\'t do that,
you end up really with a list of costs with no labels associated with
them which, of course, is very confusing. You essentially have to go
back and find your jobs and label them again. So every time you start a
new job, you need to type in a job label. Now, we talked about this
earlier. To the left of that is the reset button. If you start entering
data on a screen, and you\'re not happy with what\'s going on and you
want to start over again, just hit the reset button and everything will
be cleared out and you will be up and running again. In the lower
left‑hand corner next to that is a little text label entitled \"menu\"
and those ‑‑ you press on that, click on that, put your mouse cursor to
that and click on it to get back to the menu. They\'re Visual Basic
Microsoft screens. If you go to the task bar at the top, those, the
minimize button, the maximize button and the close button are all
active, meaning that they work. A lot of people will assume that the
easiest thing to do is hit the close button, and if you were in this
scenario and hit the close button, you would end up going back to the
menu. But the way the program is set up, the data that you had entered
on the screen might not necessarily be saved, depending on how you ‑‑
what you did before you exited, before you clicked that button. The
other thing is, if you use that button on one of the menus, if you like
go up to the data entry menu and click on that closure button up there,
that menu will go away and there\'s really no way to get it back except
starting the program over again. So don\'t do that.

\>\> M. Shumaker: I can tell you from experience I have done that and
it\'s not pretty.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Now, Matt, did you read the instruction manual
before ‑‑ I know Matt doesn\'t have time. I\'ll answer for him. Nobody
does. I understand that. That\'s why we\'re in class. Maybe we can get
past some of those things and you don\'t have to read the entire manual,
although we put a lot of work in those manuals. That was a little too
editorializing.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Don\'t apologize. The manual is something you read
after you fouled up.

\>\> S. Stebbins: That\'s true. Also on the screen let\'s go to the
lower right‑hand corner of the screen, and there\'s a little help button
there, and for every cell that\'s in the program ‑‑ I shouldn\'t say
that. I\'m not sure they\'re in the final calculation cells. But if you
are in a cell that you need to enter data or some data is displayed, you
can click on the help label there and a screen shows up that will tell
you something about the entry cell you\'re working on. This case it\'s
that ADIT closure cell. So it will tell you something about the methods
of closure available, or in other cases it will suggest entries for you,
or in other cases it will give you some indication of how the
information in that cell was derived or what calculations we used or
what assumptions we made in coming up with the numbers that you see in
that cell. Now, there\'s one more button on the screen to the right ‑‑
oh, let\'s close that. Let\'s go to our help window and hit the
bottom ‑‑ task bar on the bottom that says return. Task bar is the wrong
word for you purists. Sorry. Then on the lower right‑hand corner of the
screen is a print button, and with that button, when you\'re on a
screen, you just click on print and it will send a capture of that
screen to your printer. You guys, I work in a situation where you don\'t
have complete control of where all your utilities that are available in
your computer end up being ‑‑ what I\'m getting at here again, I should
find a verb or a noun and use one of those, we can, if you can set your
default printer to something like an adobe file or a text file, then you
can send this to somewhere else, send this screen capture to like an
adobe file, which we do all the time so we can use them in our manuals,
things like that.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Don\'t worry about that. I believe in most offices,
while there\'s not much we can do, we can set our default printers.
Although, if that\'s not the case, get back in touch us with us and
we\'ll think of something else.

\>\> S. Stebbins: That\'s primarily the utilities available on the
screen. We\'ve talked about the typeover button in the lower center
portion of the screen. Like I say, when that is displayed as typeover,
that means you can go into an entry cell and just start typing and it
will overwrite anything that\'s already in that cell. If you go to your
keyboard and press the \"insert\" button, that typeover label will
change to insert, and with insert, what happens is you ‑‑ if there\'s
already something in the cell, whatever you type will be added to the
cell. I mean, that character will be added to whatever else is in the
cell. So you\'ll start adding to it. Or if you want to enter a
completely new value under in the cert mode, you have to delete what\'s
in the cell, using either the backspace key or the delete key.

\>\> M. Shumaker: This words just like a word processor. Even works kind
of like Microsoft Word like that.

\>\> S. Stebbins: More people working for them, theirs probably works
better. Let me talk about a come more utilities before we move on to
slide 728. Let\'s hit the menu, go to the lower left‑hand corner of the
screen and hit menu, and go up here and close this submenu. Let\'s move
over to the project output menu there on the right. Down near the bottom
of it we have several other utilities that are available to you in the
program. So let\'s click first on file utilities. You\'ll see a typical
file saving module and retrieving module that is somewhat generic to
windows applications. We let windows do most of the work in this case
for these. But you\'ll see that what you have in the far left‑hand
column is the files that are available that you\'ve saved previously in
this particular directory. You can change the directory and the drive in
the boxes in the center. So the directory list is there, and the drive
list is up there. So technically you could actually work off a stick if
you wanted to or a CD if you wanted to change the drive. And the
filename that you want to either save or retrieve appears in the upper
box along with the text ‑‑ excuse me ‑‑ the string, the file string, to
get to that file, the directory and drive string. So if we wanted to
open tutorial, go to the left, click tutorial, and it shows up at the
end of our drive string here. If you want to save a file ‑‑ let\'s go
back to that blown up thing. That was nice. If you want to save a file,
you\'ll get to this screen and there will be a backslash there and you
type the name of the file in there and click \"save.\"

\>\> M. Shumaker: In this case you type the name of the file ‑‑ what you
want to name the file?

\>\> S. Stebbins: What you want to name the file you\'re saving.

\>\> M. Shumaker: So if you wanted to name this file doofus, you would
type in d‑o‑o‑f‑u‑s ‑‑

\>\> S. Stebbins: I will try not to take that personally. Yes, you can
name it doofus. So, yes, you type that name in there and you go to the
right and click on save, and that file will be saved in the directory
string you have there under the name that you have entered. You don\'t
have to add an extension to it. Sherpa adds an extension. That\'s the
way the program knows what files to look for when it goes out searching
for files. So let\'s click on return down at the bottom here. Then go
down one ‑‑ one space to the print utilities. Click on that. What comes
up here is a screen that will let you do some manipulation of how your
output is going to look. It let\'s you select the font type and size for
the titles and headings and let\'s you bold them or italicize them or
underline them. You can see to the right every font that probably is
available in your computer will be available in the program. That\'s a
windows marvel that allows it to go find every font available. If you
move down here for your values and numbers, you can also change the font
type and the font size.

\>\> M. Shumaker: So you can have your cost estimation output in
\"comic\"?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Really, I\'m trying knock to take this personally. You
have one bug in the program and then these guys jump on you. It gives
you a thick skin after a while, I guess. So let\'s move out of here.
Let\'s see. What do I want to do first? Let\'s move out of here. Move
down one in this project output type thing. You can also just hit that
button if you want to clear out everything in your project that you\'ve
started and start over again.

\>\> M. Shumaker: So this clears everything. It\'s like starting fresh?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Yes, everything you have entered up to this point is
gone, all the results are gone. Everything is gone.

\>\> M. Shumaker: You could accomplish the same thing by re booting?

\>\> S. Stebbins: You could, Matt, and I know you have. But, sure,
that\'s another way, is to reboot. You know. Then if you want to exit
the program ‑‑ and the way the jokes are going, I\'m ready to exit the
room but I\'m not going to get to do if that I want to make a living.
But to exit the program the preferred way is to click that exit button.
Now, if you want to save a file, save it before you click that exit
button or it\'s gone. Another way, if you want to exit the program, you
could use those, once you\'re all done, you could use those exit things
up at the top of the screen, but we recommend using just the exit
button. Okay? Let me grab a quick drink of water. Then we\'re going to
move onto our project data screens. Actually start working on the
program.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Now, we\'re going to look at the project data screen
as slide 730 or look at the project data screen as the project data
screen on the program itself?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Well, I ‑‑ I kind of understand your question, but ‑‑
what we\'re going to do is talk about how to use the program right now,
and in using the program, of course, what we\'re going to do is evaluate
a project, and I think those are probably slides we can actually skip
past and go right into entering data in our project data screen.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Actually, you answered the question.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Good. The project data screen is pretty important
here. We\'ll get to it in a minute. It establishes where your project is
at, and I can\'t emphasize that enough in this case, that one thing a
lot of you I\'m sure know, but was really news to me, is how different
things are from state to state as far as Davis‑Bacon wages and as far as
electric rates. Fuel rates change, fuel prices can change a little from
state to state but it\'s not as significant as those other things, and
frankly, fuel prices change enough from region to region from eastern
Washington to west Washington there\'s quite a price change, but you
need to use this project data screen to establish where your project is
at so the program will know where to start looking for the data it needs
to do the cost estimate. So let\'s go to that project data screen on the
program. Right now, like I say, we should have cleared all the data out
so our project data screen will come up empty, I hope, except maybe with
some default information. So click on project data. There we have our
screen. The text box on the left ‑‑ you notice the program comes up in
the project location ‑‑ the cursor comes up in the project location
cell. So we want to select a project location from the list in the text
box over here on the left. Let\'s click Utah because it\'s ‑‑ as far as
Davis‑Bacon, it\'s one of the most confusing states I ran across. So
click Utah. And then you\'ll see that in the bottom lower left‑hand
corner of the screen there\'s a list of different count ease and
districts in Utah and each one of those has a different Davis‑Bacon wage
rate. We\'ll just want to pick a county. Let\'s do that one. Not even
sure I can pronounce the first county there, but ‑‑ I should interject,
any questions up until now? It\'s gotten awfully quiet out there. I
Nolan much is over and we all drank coffee for lunch because again it is
cost estimating and you people will fall asleep. If you have any
questions, please just ring in any time you want.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Burt tells me it\'s pronounced for DUCHESNE.

\>\> S. Stebbins: I\'m happy to not have to pronounce it. Now we move
back down here and we see on the screen several access entry cell boxes
there. Each one of those is pretty critical in coming up with a
reasonable number to your estimate. The distance to support means the
distance to the nearest town or center where you can buy equipment,
where you can purchase supplies, where you can hire labor. So it\'s
probably going to be ‑‑ have to be to a fairly reasonably sized town.
Now, the next one down is the average transport speed to the support
site. This is probably going to be a fairly rough estimate on your part,
and actually we hit the clear button, but if you first come up in this
program, it will have default values for these, but it\'s a pretty
important number as far as coming up with the mobilization costs. I
know ‑‑ in the questions we\'ve had, a lot of you really are good at
this. You know the things to ask and you know the numbers that we\'re
looking for and you know how important it is to get them as close as you
can, but for the rest of you out there that aren\'t as familiar with
this type of work, I\'m going to from this point on give some general
assumptions you might make as you\'re going along, at least as a place
to start. Of course, you can always come back in and make the numbers
better as you go along.

\>\> M. Shumaker: I just got a question in from New Mexico. A Marilyn in
Las Cruces is looking at this right now, and he tells me he can\'t find
New Mexico on the pick list.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Well, that\'s because the man who programs this
particular software package put the data in for New Mexico, and one
other state that I can\'t remember right offhand ‑‑ it might have been
Colorado ‑‑ I think it was ‑‑ but failed to put those names in this list
when he sent out his last version. That, of course, would be me. I
couldn\'t blame anybody but myself for that. So in the next version
that\'s coming out, those states will be in there, and I\'m trying to
think ‑‑ we sent out, I think, 180 of these, 160 of these and we have
all the states in the database now, but if somebody else outside of one
those states doesn\'t see their name, state name on the list, let me
know and we\'ll add the data for that state into the list.

\>\> M. Shumaker: We may need some added for Missouri and the Tri‑State
district and so forth if there are going to be applications to other
things. Would it work if Adam were to enter New Mexico or is it gone?

\>\> S. Stebbins: No, you can\'t manually enter the state. By not having
it on the list, there is not a way to recognize the text string in the
code either. That\'s the second step in entering the name. Right now
there\'s no way to do it. I\'m sorry.

\>\> M. Shumaker: I don\'t have a crystal ball but I\'m willing to
predict Scott Stebbins will be pretty busy between now and the end of
July.

\>\> Caller: Question.

\>\> M. Shumaker: We\'re listening.

\>\> Caller: This is Mike Sweeney in Spokane. If you have like, say,
New York ‑‑

\>\> M. Shumaker: Mike, we lost you at ‑‑ it sounded like New York.
We\'re getting an echo again.

\>\> S. Stebbins: I\'m fascinated by the question, Mike, when you\'re
starting with New York. Please, if you can get back online.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Mike, if you can\'t get us on push‑to‑talk, maybe send
an e‑mail question to me or try and use a phone at our 800 number and
we\'ll put the 800 number up here to call in in just a moment because my
brain is like a sieve and I can\'t remember it either.

\>\> S. Stebbins: let\'s get back to our computer screen. I will talk
through some of these in general. Although, you know, the people do that
this for a living out there will know that you want to as specific as
you can in the numbers that you put in here. Let\'s say that the average
transport speed to a support site ‑‑ we\'re talking about the primary
use of this is figuring out our mobilization cost. So we\'re talking
about driving a fairly large truck this distance from the site they\'re
doing the reclamation work for to the site where you can get the
equipment onto a flatbed or trailer of some sort. So, first of all,
those trucks probably don\'t travel 70 miles an hour on each the best
roads. The best you could expect is 50, 55, probably, unless it was some
sort of superfreeway thing. But the more you get off the main roads, the
longer that portion of the distance, the more time it will take, the
slower the average speed will be. If you are on some dirt back road for
most of the distance, speed is like 15 to 20 to 25 would be more
appropriate or even less than that. These are judgment calls. But use
your best judgment.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Scott, we\'ve had a question come in twice now from
two different people, from John in Denver and from Jennifer in Craig,
and the question is, I don\'t know if you can see my computer screen
here, but the .SHP extension is also used in a lot of GIS work that BLM
does, and the question is twofold, number one, is that going to cause a
conflict, and number two, is there a way to change the extension so it
doesn\'t conflict with our GIS programs?

\>\> S. Stebbins: I would hate to ask them to change ‑‑ wait a minute,
you\'re asking me to change my extension, aren\'t you?

\>\> M. Shumaker: I\'m not going to say that, but I\'m hinting at it
strongly.

\>\> S. Stebbins: The program will only look for the .SHP extension in
the directories that you send it to, first of all. And what would happen
is if you went and found some .SHP extension that applied to a different
type of file and tried to load it, it obviously just wouldn\'t load. But
I don\'t ‑‑ I\'m not married to that extension. It\'s fairly easy to
change. There are a couple things I want to do, though. We\'re going to
upgrade this program every 90 days. We\'re going to add things to it.
We\'re going to change some things about the way it works over time. But
one of your assigned tasks, if I understand right, is that you\'re asked
to update this ‑‑ the reclamation bond estimate, if I understand it,
Mr. Murrellwright, every year or ‑‑ over a certain period of time. So I
what I want to make sure we do is that once you make a file that no
matter how we change the program, one year from now you can just bring
that file back up and it will do the calculations automatically. You may
want to make other changes, but we want to make sure that that\'s the
way this program works. So if we\'re going to change extensions, we want
to do it now, and I didn\'t know that that was an extension ‑‑ it\'s
something I\'m going to have to look into to see if it\'s really going
to be a problem.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Before we beat this one to death here, while we\'re
paying for satellite uplink time, this may be something you\'ll want to
contact directly on either by phone or by e‑mail, but the impression I
get right now is that if you\'re practicing good file management and
directory management, this may never become an issue. But let\'s move on
from this point. Also, if you\'ve been trying to contact us using your
push‑to‑talk apparatus and for some reason you can\'t get through and
you\'ve had an echo, what may have happened is that our control room as
muted you down to keep the echo from going through the whole system, and
you may have been dropped as a result. So you may need to contact the
help line for the Push‑to‑talk equipment vendor or just try calling in
on the 800 number or send me an e‑mail, and as you see, e‑mail questions
are getting answered. Anyway, Scott, let\'s move along here.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Now we move down one from on the screen from what we
were talking about. We\'ll move down to distance to a dump site.

\>\> M. Shumaker: So we\'re looking at the computer screen now?

\>\> S. Stebbins: We\'re looking at the fifth cell down, the distance to
a dump site. This is the distance you will have to transport
nonhazardous materials. , things like concrete slabs that you have
broken up and want to haul out, debris from buildings, maybe, some
derelict equipment where it\'s the distance to a place where you can
suitably dump those sort of things. An awful lot of the site work
screens, the ones that are past the earthwork screens, have to do with
getting materials that are on your site off of them and away from the
property, and, of course, a major cost component of that is the time it
takes to haul it to someplace, leave it and come back. So that distance,
again, is fairly critical to coming up with a reliable number, and again
below that we have the average transport speed to one of those sites ‑‑
or to that site. Below that we have the distance to a hazardous waste
repository. That\'s for projects you have where you\'re going to have to
haul something to a hazardous waste site. Those, I think a lot of you
know, are sort of few and far between, and you will, if you\'re going to
have to transport something to a site like that, you should put the
effort into finding out exactly which site you\'re going to need to take
it to and get that distance correct, because that really is ‑‑ because
the sites are so few and far between, the distance will probably be
significant and the associated cost will also be significant of hauling
materials to that site.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Rob in California was trying to ask us a question. He
called in and tried to relay it to us through the control room. Right
now my brain is like a sieve, and I tried taking notes and just
couldn\'t do it. So, rob, if you would fax us the question or e‑mail it
to me, we\'ll get to you. If for some reason you are in a place where
neither will work, ask Scott separately after the class is over today.

\>\> S. Stebbins: I should say, like I say, you can leave phone messages
at my office, but I\'m not there and I won\'t get to them until next
week, but I\'m available by e‑mail almost everywhere. When people ask me
questions, I really do prefer they come through e‑mail so can I keep a
record of your question. We, of course, have a file of things we want to
look at in the program that we discover through support work.

\>\> M. Shumaker: We have the question here and up now that had to do
with New York.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Good.

\>\> M. Shumaker: That was kind of a fascinating question. I will read
it off the monitor. If you have an unsupported location like BALMAT,
New York or the Tri‑State district in Missouri, is there a state data
file that provides a general model like Montana or Idaho that would be
the most similar and can provide a quick reference?

\>\> S. Stebbins: There is a website for Davis‑Bacon wages, first of
all, and I can\'t remember the name of the site or the address of the
site, but you type in Davis‑Bacon wages in your search engine, and it\'s
the first one that comes up on the list, and in that they have the
current wages for every state that ‑‑ well, every state and every region
within every state, and it\'s a miserable thing to try to Wade through
because there is so much information but that information is available.
So if you go to your search engine and type in Davis‑Bacon wages it will
get you there. It\'s a government site. So ‑‑ which will make it easier
to identify in the list of sites that come up. As far as some items like
fuel and electric rates and things like that, we use mining cost service
for most of that information, although there are websites you can go to
to get fuel prices a regional basis. In fact, it\'s the same site that
western mine engineering uses to get their information. Either mining
cost service or look on the internet.

\>\> M. Shumaker: I think we probably need to keep moving here.

\>\> S. Stebbins: We do. So we\'ll go down to a little more on that
screen, a couple more cells, and what you\'ll find when you start
working with Davis‑Bacon wages is that in addition to the things that we
have the new here, we have a state and then we have a region within the
state. Sometimes there are regions within regions ‑‑

\>\> M. Shumaker: Show us what you mean. Use the light pen to highlight
the area you are speaking of here. We\'re trying some technology here ‑‑
the arrow came up but it was a color that wasn\'t visible.

\>\> S. Stebbins: It\'s this cell right here ‑‑

\>\> M. Shumaker: The one, \"special rate wage factor.\" There\'s also a
\"special rate burden factor.\" So like in Washington state, for
instance, there is an eastern Washington breakdown of wages. There\'s a
western Washington breakdown of wages. But certain places in western
Washington, like RENTON or places in south King county might have
changes that you need to make, adjustments you need to make even to the
base wages to make them appropriate for that particular area. So those
cells allow you to do that, to make those additional changes. And
wages ‑‑ we want to get those right. Most of the time you\'ll find that
maybe wages are 50% of your overall costs at the site to get the work
done. So if you are working in a region ‑‑ let me back up a little here.
That doesn\'t come up very much in the work we do. I just wanted to have
the adjustment available for you there. But most of these special
adjustments are urban based, and so they won\'t come up very often,
except some of them actually are kind of ‑‑ what\'s the word ‑‑ mega
rural based, if you are in an area with a region that nobody lives in,
you might end up with another wage adjustment for that area. The last
cell on this screen is the project duration cell and with a you enter in
that cell is how long the BLM is going to have to be monitoring that
site. It\'s not a discussion worth getting into, but a lot of them talk
about monitoring forever, I guess, but you can, I think, get up to 240
months in this site and the program will recognize it, and that
information is used to give you some idea of the sampling costs and the
monitoring costs as far as labor goes associated with this site after
your reclamation work is done. Let\'s go to our program screens. Go down
to the lower left‑hand corner of this screen. Hit menu to go back to our
menu. Come back up to our data entry menu do the wages and supplies
screen. Before we do that let\'s go to our project data screen and enter
some information so we can move onto our example when we get to it. So
we\'re going to go up to project data, we have Utah, whatever county it
is with Wasatch. Let\'s say the distance to support is 35 miles. I\'ll
just type in a 35 there. And the way to move from one cell to the next
when you\'re outside of a text box is to either hit the tab key or use
the mouse or the cursor, but the tab key will go ahead and the minute
you hit it, that information is saved into the program and it\'s kind of
there for good until you exit the program if you don\'t save it to file.
After that, then you will lose it.

\>\> M. Shumaker: But you would be able to change it if you needed to?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Yes. The average transport speed to support. Let\'s
say 35 miles an hour. Let\'s say the average distance to a dump site is
120 miles. Let\'s say that speed is maybe 45 miles an hour. And the
distance to a hazardous waste dump might be 400 miles. And let\'s say
again the speed is maybe 45. We won\'t make any adjustments to the
wages. Let\'s give a 60‑month period for monitoring.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Let\'s the longest period of time you can put into the
monitoring field?

\>\> S. Stebbins: 240 months right now. We can change that but I\'m not
sure it does much good to even look that far as far as estimating a
reclamation bond value. That\'s an interesting question, how long we
should make that work for. If we ‑‑

\>\> Caller: This is Al in Boise. I\'ve got a question.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Sure, Al.

\>\> Caller: Yeah, on the special adjustments for wages, how do you ‑‑

\>\> M. Shumaker: Al, we lost you. Try pushing the button again and pick
it back up.

\>\> S. Stebbins: I\'m going to anticipate your question, Al. You might
be asking whether we enter it in ‑‑ how we find ‑‑ we\'re entering that
in a percentage. So the adjustment rate would be if you entered 10%, you
increase the wage by 10%. If the data isn\'t reported to you in that
way, then what you would do is take the base wage, which if it were \$20
an hour, and then take the adjustment, which would be maybe \$1 per
hour, and then do the calculation, so that would be a 5% increase and
then you would enter 5% in that cell. Talking off the top of my head
here, but I\'m pretty sure that\'s how it works. If that isn\'t the
answer to your question, come back again and we\'ll try again.

\>\> Caller: In other words, if you wanted to decrease the special rate
wage factor by 10%, would you type in a minus 10 or would you type in
90?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Good question. I don\'t know the answer off the top of
my head. I would have to give it a try and see, Al. I\'m sorry. I just
don\'t remember right off the top of my head how to do it. But if I
remember right, it would be minus 10%, but now I\'ll check that when
we\'re off camera to make sure I remember exactly how it works and get
back to you. Okay?

\>\> Caller: Thank you.

\>\> M. Shumaker: If you\'re having trouble with your push‑to‑talk, what
seems to be happening is some of the offices are being dropped outside
of our control somewhere, and so if your call is being dropped or
you\'re just not getting through, try the 800 number or try sending in a
fax question or you can send me an e‑mail if you can get to a computer.
Okay, Scott?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Let\'s go to the wages screen real quickly. You\'ll
see that for the county that ‑‑ the counties that we\'ve chosen, they
have the wages and the fringes listed there. Those are based on ‑‑ those
should be ‑‑ I\'m not sure they\'re current. I don\'t know when the last
time we changed ‑‑ we\'ll check them again before we send your update
out to you. They may be current and they may not. Those are the
Davis‑Bacon wages for Wasatch and whatever county that is in Utah. And
down below in the supply cells we have the diesel fuel price for which
should be ‑‑ that\'s probably not too bad right now, but if I haven\'t
said it before, I will say it now and say it another 20 times, any
number you see in here, you want to type over that number, just type it
over. Fuel is a good one. It changes from week to week. In the work that
you are doing, though, when you are trying to establish a fairly stable
bond value ‑‑ or a value you need to bond to, you might want to try to
look at an average price over a certain period of time instead of trying
to follow the fluctuations.

\>\> M. Shumaker: We do have the web address now for that Davis‑Bacon
website. They\'re going to put it up on the screen in a moment.

\>\> S. Stebbins: The guys are amazing.

\>\> M. Shumaker: There\'s the address and keep on moving, Scott.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Then we have a gasoline price there on that screen in
the bottom left‑hand corner of the screen. Over on the right we have an
electric rate for this area. Now, that electric rate, let\'s talk about
that for just a minute. There\'s not many functions on these sites that
actually probably would be using electricity off a grid. If it\'s a site
that\'s being abandoned and it\'s a reclamation site, we\'re looking at
more generators. Except in special cases, the program will supply
generators for most of the work. Off the top of my head, I can\'t
remember what the special cases are, but there aren\'t many instances
where that\'s used. I\'m trying to think. I think a permanent pumping
situation it will use that rate, meaning you are going to pump for 60
months or whatever. The maintenance labor cost there is again a
Davis‑Bacon price or wage that\'s assigned to essentially the
contractor\'s off‑site maintenance crew, which is factored into the
hourly charge for the equipment. Any questions?

\>\> Caller: This is Al again. Why is maintenance \[inaudible\]

\>\> S. Stebbins: I didn\'t quite hear. You said ‑‑ I think you\'re
asking is maintenance labor outside of the rest of them?

\>\> Caller: Yes why is maintenance labor shown under supplies? I\'m
kind of curious.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Well, Al, probably that\'s ‑‑ the quick answer is
because it didn\'t fit up in the box up above there, but the slow answer
and the thoughtful answer is because often, even though you have a
Davis‑Bacon wage for that, the contractor will charge more for those
people for the mechanics. So I wanted it noon a spot that was a little
more conspicuous, you know, trying to get people to think about it a
little more. Now, you could ask the question, even if he does charge
more for them, do you get to as a government contractor honor what he
charges for his permanent mechanics, and that\'s a question I can\'t
answer.

\>\> Caller: So if you\'re ‑‑ you\'ll have to include the fringes, then,
in that maintenance labor cost, right?

\>\> S. Stebbins: No, they\'re already included. That\'s the overall
cost in that case. Again, that ‑‑ it\'s separated out because that guy
isn\'t working on the site ever. He\'s the guy doing the overhauls at
the contractors shop.

\>\> M. Shumaker: If you\'re using the push‑to‑talk microphone, be sure
to hold it at arm\'s length, otherwise we\'ll be getting distortion in
the question.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Let\'s hit the menu button, go back and let\'s look at
our earthwork options. Now, right now we can expand this list, but right
now we have ‑‑ what do we have? We have eight options that are separated
out for your earthworking type tasks on site. Again, let me talk a
little bit to the guys who do this a lot for a living. These may not
make total sense to you the way they\'re laid out but we need to make
the program make sense to everybody that uses it, and this may not be in
the detail or laid out the way you\'re most comfortable with, and I\'m
willing to talk about any changes we need to make to it, but I\'m trying
to jump ahead of you guys a little bit here and say we\'re looking ‑‑ I
don\'t want to say general costs. You\'ll see they\'re pretty specific,
but the tasks themselves are laid out in a way that we try to make them
make sense to anybody that runs across the program. The other thing is
all our users, except the BLM, are foreign users, and so we often end up
in language things trying to run them through how to use this. So our
options right now, you can see on the list, are ‑‑ I think this is slide
733. But our options are excavate and stockpile. Excavate, load, haul
and dumb. Load, haul and dump. We have a slow production set of screens.
We have a road rehabilitation set of screens. We have a spread and
contour set of screens that we\'ll talk about in a minute in much more
detail. We\'ll have a fine grading set of screens. And a ditch
excavation option for you. Because of the way our time is working here,
I want to go through each of these but not in great detail as to what
we\'re talking about. The excavate and stockpile option means that you
take a machine that is good at digging unexcavated ‑‑ previously
unexcavated material, maybe heavily compacted material, but primarily
unexcavated material, and the type of machine ‑‑ let me back up. We\'re
going to talk a lot about machines for a while, and I\'m going to do my
best to quickly tell you what each one might do, but the fact is, the
machine operation and understanding machines is way beyond the scope of
what we\'re going to try to cover here, and I guess I would ‑‑ I\'ve
been involved in a couple classes that Matt has put together. One is the
mine and beneficiation cost estimating course where they talk a lot
about equipment. And the other is the Placer evaluation course. In
particular, the Placer evaluation course, in my own experience, does a
great job of talking about the practical aspects of a lot of the types
of machines that you\'re going to use for kind of smaller or
medium‑sized reclamation projects. I don\'t know what the availability
of that class is, but if you want to learn a lot about just the plain
old operating aspects of machines you\'re going to commonly come across,
I would really recommend taking that class. Not sure, but you may even
get to operate one or two of those pieces of machinery. I\'ll go through
these pretty quickly. You\'ll have to bear with me. I know there\'s a
lot more to each of these pieces of equipment than I will be able to
cover here, and if I were in the audience, I would say, well, he
mentioned that piece of equipment but it does this, this and this also,
but it doesn\'t do this well. I understand that. Like I say, I think to
do this work well you really do have to have an understanding of what
these machines are capable of.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Do you have a slide for with where you\'re at right
now?

\>\> S. Stebbins: I think the slide that\'s up there is working well,
the 733. We\'re about to move onto to 734.

\>\> S. Murrellwright: Let me jump in a second. When we end up or you
determine that you are ‑‑ need to use a different value that is
presented or supplied in the spreadsheet, remember that you must
document, document where you got that from the date of information, and
all that needs to be included in the case file. If it turns out that we
end up in a situation where we do not accept, shall we say, in reviewing
a reclamation cost estimate in our evaluation of using Sherpa here we
determine that it\'s not accept and the field manager or district
manager issues a decision that we don\'t accept it and we end up in an
appeal situation. So we need to make sure we document everything we\'re
doing regarding any modifications to the numbers that are within this
current spreadsheet or Sherpa that you\'re working with. That\'s it in a
nutshell.

\>\> S. Stebbins: In this case, job labeling in the Sherpa program can
really kind of save you. You label each job, and you might want to make
a note to yourself what changes you have made at that point, it\'s
pretty critical. One of the things that happens, I know Burt and I have
this problem, when we get reports in where we\'re given page after page
of spreadsheet results which are just page after page of numbers and we
have no idea what they are. That\'s not particularly helpful. Scott?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Okay. Let keep going. So let\'s talk about each of
these I options for just a moment. The excavate and stockpile option,
the equipment available in that option includes what you would expect,
bulldozers, crawler loaders, we have a drag line in there, Bob Lewis,
mainly ‑‑ I want to keep you happy. We have hydraulic backhoes. We have
scrapers available there. We threw in wheel loaders. Those of you who
know about wheel loaders know they\'re not necessarily an excavating
machine, they don\'t have a huge break‑out force. Mainly they\'re used
for loading material that\'s already been excavated. We also have a
hydraulic shovel in there. In this case in the excavate and stockpile we
assume the material is just being handled by this machine, the one
machine.

\>\> M. Shumaker: We\'re on slide 734 now, I believe, is that correct?

\>\> S. Stebbins:, yes, we are. So the machine is going to Ping the
material and we are ‑‑ or dig it, pick it up, and move it. If it\'s a
machine that swivels on a base like a hydraulic shovel or a backhoe,
it\'s just going to dump it right next to the machine if that it\'s a
machine like a bulldozer or a scraper, or maybe a crawler loader, or
wheel loader if you can get it to excavate, you may be able to move that
material some distance and you\'ll see that that option is available in
the cell. It will let you enter some haul distances for certain types of
machines. Those in the know will say scrapers are not exactly great
excavators either, but in this kind of work a lot of material they
will ‑‑ they will pick up will be maybe heavily compacted material or
soil just to move back to a site that\'s already been reclaimed. Let\'s
go to the ‑‑ but what I want to point out here is for excavate and
stockpile, we\'re talking a machine that can dig previously unexcavated
material and turn around and stockpile it. I\'ll stop here because if I
were you I would be asking the question right now, is there any drill
and blast options available in this program? And, no, that\'s one of the
first things we\'re going to add, is we\'re going to add drill and blast
segment in the program. The next option available in the earthwork
segment is excavate, load, haul and dump. In this case we have a machine
that excavates the material. One of the machines we talked about
earlier. But probably you would select one of the more stationary
machines. We have that machine loading material into a truck. Then that
truck hauling it a certain distance and dumping it. In this case we have
an excavator, more of the stationary kind, dumping into a truck ‑‑
loading into a truck, and that truck hauls it some distance and dumps
it. Now, you may have a scenario where you want to excavate the material
with something like a backhoe, dump it right next to it, and then have a
loader picking up the material, putting it in a truck and moving it some
distance, and in that case you would use our first option and our third
option, which is load, haul, dump. Now, the load, haul, dump option
assumes you\'re prick picking up the previously excavated material, or
relatively unconsolidated material and you can use a crawler loader or
wheel loader or a shovel in this option is in this case. Whether you
would use it or not is up to your judgment. You put that stuff in a
truck and it hauls it and dumps it. We did have a fax come in. Maybe I
should ‑‑

\>\> M. Shumaker: Rob was finally able to get through to us. Here\'s
Rob's questions. Basically ‑‑ you need to read that out loud and see
what you can do.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Question number 1 is can this program be tailored by
not entering state data and regional data and simply enter data as
needed for each element attribute? If I understand your question, yes,
but I think what I would make sure to do, rob, is just to avoid the
possibility of a division by zero somewhere down the road, I would go
and pull in a state, any state, and then I would go to the wage and
supply screen and overwrite any value in there you need to do overwrite.
Just to make sure all the cells are full. It\'s so easy to overwrite
information, that\'s the way I would approach it. My concern is, in
thinking back in the program, I don\'t think you would have a program,
but if you left some of those wage cells blank, you might run into some
problems somewhere down the road. The second question is: I have yet
been able to save a file. Somewhat important for exercise. Is it my
father fingers?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Rob, I\'m sure it\'s not. I\'m not quite sure what\'s
happening. We\'ll go through it again here a little later on, but ‑‑
we\'ll go through it right now.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Rob, before we get into too much detail there, be sure
you\'re not trying to save the file to the directory that the program is
stored in on your computer.

\>\> S. Stebbins: No, that\'s fine.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Actually, that won\'t work with the BLM system. You
need to save it to a file ‑‑ or to a directory that your I.T. people
will let you write things to.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Bummer.

\>\> M. Shumaker: In most locations, the program files directory is a
read only, and if you need to save something or write data, it has to go
to a file where you\'ve basically got permission, and sometimes the only
place you can do that is the C backslash TMP file, or TEMP file. Your
I.T. people may be able to help you.

\>\> S. Stebbins: That\'s interesting. Let me know how that works. If
you give appear try and still can\'t make it work, I\'m wondering if
something in the program is having trouble ‑‑ you should be able to find
any directory on that file menu we have.

\>\> M. Shumaker: We have some pretty hefty security measures in place
to prevent overwriting and prevent putting information into places where
the I.T. Department thinks they should not go. Another file also that
should work is my documents, somewhere in there. This is a problem, I
think, all of us will encounter at one time or another.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Let me know how that\'s working. If you\'re all having
trouble doing that, I need to know that. We need to change something
about how the file accessing software portion of this works. But I
haven\'t had anybody with that complaint, and usually the beauty about
writing software is something doesn\'t work, you hear about it pretty
quickly, usually. But if everybody\'s having that problem, let us know.
Maybe not right now, not swarm with us calls or anything but maybe write
to my website if ‑‑ or write to my e‑mail address, and maybe you can put
that e‑mail address up right now And let me know if you\'re having
trouble doing that. Making the program work within your system is just a
programming problem but we need to make sure it does it. Let me know.
Aventsherp@aol.com The program will let you do a slow production
estimate, calculation, fairly easily without going into too ‑‑ the
calculations for this slow production estimation procedure are in the
manual if you want to take a look at that, but essentially the program
will start with the initial slope that you\'re working with, it will do
some calculations based on the final slope. Essentially it will do a
volume estimate of how much material needs to be moved to reduce the
slope to a certain gradient or certain angle. Based on the amount of
material and the height of the wall, it may start adding in some
rehandling calculations into there, meaning that you\'re going to have
to handle material more than once or maybe even more than twice to get
it from the high wall to where it needs to be to reduce the slope. As I
mentioned, the calculations are in here for this, and primarily you can
use a bulldozer, scraper, crawler loader, maybe a wheel loader, but in
many cases here we really probably will need to drill and blast. So
that\'s why we need to add that screen to this program, which we\'ll do.
The spread and contour, that\'s a bulldozer operation, but this is where
I get into a lot of trouble with the people who are using ‑‑ even the
company that did this work for our example problem says we\'re going to
regrade a certain acreage, 20 acres or something. From a cost estimating
point of view, that doesn\'t give me a lot to go on. I get pretty
confused about how much work we\'re going to do, how much earth we\'re
going to move, where it\'s going to be moved to. Maybe it\'s something
people don\'t know ahead of time. That\'s why they come up with a
generic number like that. But I\'ve got two ways we need to handle it.
We need to either come up with a volume that needs to be moved to this
work within a certain area, but barring that, we can move to one of the
final screens and make an estimate of how much time will be spent on the
acre moving material if we can\'t come up with a volume to adjust it
that way. But your spread and contour is primarily for material that you
dump and you need to spread around or if you need to regrade a site that
material is already dumped on and you need to contour it in a way that
makes people happy, this is the screen you would use for that,
particularly ‑‑ primarily it\'s the Dozer screen where you\'re moving
stuff around with the Dozer.

\>\> M. Shumaker: We\'re starting to run a bit behind schedule, so we
probably need to move on. Do you want to go into the load, haul, dump
example ‑‑

\>\> S. Stebbins: I don\'t think you would say that to me unless you
wanted me to do that, so I think we should do that. Yeah, let\'s go to
an example. Let\'s give that a try.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Let us bring up slide 735 to introduce it and we can
run through each point real briefly, and then go into the computer
screens.

\>\> S. Stebbins: I interrupted and I\'m sorry. First of all, by like to
Mr. Murrellwright to put on the overhead projector how this problem is
going to work. Because I don\'t hear much from you, and I\'m going to
make you work, and what we need to do is work at least two examples
before we go to ‑‑ end up the evening, and I think we have plenty of
time to do that. So I\'m ‑‑ I want to make you do some work. What we\'re
going to do is we\'re going to take a stockpile of material in that
stockpile is 400 feet on a side. It\'s 100 feet high. And the slope
of ‑‑ angle of repose, if you like, the slope is 45 degrees.

\>\> M. Shumaker: We just heard back from rob and rob was able to save
his file in the temp directory on the C drive. If any of you are running
into that problem, that\'s a good place to put things and then you can,
if need be, transfer them to a thumb drive or some other form of
storage.

\>\> S. Stebbins: I\'m glad to hear that. I was actually quite
concerned. Now, as I talked about earlier, an awful lot of work you\'re
going to be doing out there I\'m hoping is calculating volumes, volumes
of pit, ponds, stockpiled rock. I don\'t know how many of you run across
a stockpile of rock that\'s a perfect square with 400 feet on each side.
If you\'re looking at this, the stockpile on the bottom is the
crosssectional view. The top of your pyramid is not there but I want to
try to run you through quickly a way to estimate the volume of something
like this. So like I say, we have a stockpile that\'s 400 feet on a. The
side slopes are 200 feet. And the thing is 100 feet high. What I want
you to do is tell me how much material we\'re going to have to move. I
will give you a minute or two to look at it and then I will run through
how we would do that, but I don\'t know ‑‑ dead air ‑‑ I don\'t know if
dead air is what I\'m going to wait for, somebody to call in and give me
the number. ‑‑ this would be a good time to try‑out your a
Hewlett‑Packard calculator. Any answers yet. ?

\>\> M. Shumaker: Probably ought to move on.

\>\> S. Stebbins: We don\'t need that number right away, but we will
move on here to entering the data. Well, I\'m not sure I want to do that
because I want them to be watching me enter the data. So let me run
through the calculations for you. Essentially the volume of a pyramid,
the cubic pyramid are given by the equation on that overhead.

\>\> M. Shumaker: I think we can put a little music up for a minute and
take a deep breath and people can calculate this, wake up, have a quick
cup of coffee while you\'re doing it and call us in a couple minutes,
and if we don\'t hear from you, we will call you and ask you to answer
the question. Let\'s do that.

\>\> Thanks. I would like for them to do that.

\>\> S. Stebbins: I haven\'t heard in my ear phone anybody come back
with a number yet. Anybody out there? Calculations under pressure. I
know the feeling.

\>\> Caller: I came up with 345,679 cubic yards.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Perfect. I don\'t know Who was that, but\...

\>\> Caller: Frank in Elko.

\>\> S. Stebbins: If we can go to this overhead, thanks fairly Stan dud
volumetric calculation. What we want to do is calculate the top part of
this pyramid isn\'t here, that little thing right up there is not here.
But to calculate the volume the easiest thing to do is calculate the
volume of a pyramid. Which is the area of the base times the height of
the pyramid divide bide 3. If you take 400, which is one side of the
base, times 400, which is the other side of the base, times 200, which
is the height of the total pyramid, if it were all there and divide that
by three, I think you get 10,666,666 cubic feet. Since that little
pyramid on top isn\'t there, our stockpile is only 100 feet high, we can
take the volume of that pyramid, which would be 200 feet on a side at
the base, so that\'s 200 feet times 200 feet, and that pyramid is 100
feet high, essentially the upper half of the big pyramid. So 200 times
200 times 100 divided by 3 is 1,333,333 cubic feet. My able assistant
Mr. Murrellwright is putting the numbers on the screen as we speak. So
we subtract the little pyramid which isn\'t there away from the big
pyramid, which is our stockpile, and we end up with 9,333,333 cubic
feet. I keep seeing square feet.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Actually you\'re saying cubic feet.

\>\> S. Stebbins: There\'s 27 cubic feet per cubic yard. Divide that
number by 27. We should end up with 345,679,000 cubic yards.

\>\> M. Shumaker: If Bob Lewis is with us today sitting over there
cringing over our use of significant figures, but we have to round
somewhere, and I don\'t think we\'ve rounded quite yet.

\>\> S. Stebbins: We\'re doing a load, haul, dump example and one of the
things we need to do is how much material we\'re going to load, hall and
dump. This is a stockpile. So it\'s unconsolidated material or at least
minorly consolidated. But with the example we\'re going to use a 6.5
cubic yard loader to pick up the material. We\'re going to load into it
a 20 ton capacity rear dump truck. We\'re assuming the density of
material before excavated would be 3,500 pounds per cubic yard. We\'ll
assume in this case it swelled at a 35% swell on excavation and it
isn\'t overly compacted on the site. Essentially in this case the 35%
would be the compacted swell factor. We are going to haul this material
4,000 feet up a 2% gradient and down 800 feet to a 10% gradient and we
will move 345,679,000 cubic yards. It\'s a fairly simple example. I know
the questions I\'ve got, some of you guys are way beyond me here already
on this. This stockpile is 100 feet high so we\'re not going to start
digging at the bottom face. So we will to have to put a road up around
it and that road itself would be maybe 800 feet long. So we don\'t have
all the haul distances here. There\'s more to this than what we have
here but mainly I just want to demonstrate how the program works,
particularly these earthwork screens. The screens beyond the earthwork
screens are really fairly straightforward. But the earthwork screens ‑‑
let\'s click on load, haul, dump here. They are a little more difficult
to use. We need to put a lot of information in. These screens come up in
three screen echelons. All the screens pass this are just one screen you
have to fill out. But here we have three screens because we need to have
that much room. We can\'t fit all the room we need to enter information
on one screen. So what we usually do on these screens is fill out the
first screen, move to the second screen, fill it out, and then move to
the final screen to get our final result. If we have more than one job,
let\'s say in this case we had three or four load, haul, dump jobs what
I would typically do would be to fill out all three of the first screens
first, then move on and fill all three of the second screens out and
then move on and fill all three of the third screens out, but you can do
it any way you want. You can fill one screen out, move to the next, move
to the next, come back, start over again on job 2 if you like to do
that. Anyway, so now we\'re going to estimate the cost of doing this.
The job we have laid out here. We\'re on the computer screen now. We
decided we wanted a Front‑end loader. We go to the option box and click
wheel loader and that shows up. You will notice in the box to the right,
in our available equipment list, this is a piece of equipment now
that\'s been assigned to this project. It\'s available for any earthwork
job that you want to do. For our hauler we\'ll move back to the
left‑hand side of the screen. The only option right now is the rear‑dump
trucks. We click on that. We have our first truck in there. We said we
have an in place density of 3500 pounds per cubic yard. You notice the
cursor is in the cell we need to do that in the upper right‑hand corner
of the screen. So enter that value there. And we come up with the
density of the material. We ‑‑ hit the tab key to go down to the next
cell, and our percent swell, enter 35%, hit tab again and it will
estimate our excavated density, which is 2593 pounds per cubic yard, and
the reason that\'s important is we\'re trying to figure out how much
material we can get into a truck ‑‑ or into a bucket, and trucks and
buckets are limited both by weight and by, and the program will go
through, depending on the equipment we select, the size we select, and
you\'ll see that on the next screen, and determine whether our limits
here are through the weight and material or through the volume of the
material, and it will allow us ‑‑ excuse me ‑‑ it will determine the
maximum load we can handle on each trip. Or in the case of the bucket,
each cycle. Then that maximum load, of course s used in the calculation
to determine how many loads we have to take, which in turn based on our
cycle times will tell us how long we have to separate the machine to get
this done. Let\'s label this job, because I keep saying we need to. Type
in anything you want there. Since we\'ve done that, then we want to
click on the next in the lower right‑hand corner of the screen, right
there where my cursor is. Then the next screen comes up. Here\'s where
we get to decide the sizes of our machines, and as I say, this program
wasn\'t designed to pick the sizes of the machines for you, and those of
you who do this for a living know that\'s a monumental task, and like I
say, some of our other programs do that, but this one doesn\'t. This is
mostly a calculator. So it will be your responsibility to learn enough
about equipment to have some idea of what\'s going on, a really general
way to look at it, which I don\'t recommend at all but we\'ll do it for
our example tonight and what we\'re talking about here, is based on the
size of the operation. You know, if you\'re out there moving 40 yards of
material and that\'s all you have to move and there\'s one little pit,
you\'re going to want to use small equipment. If you\'re moving a
million yards of material or half a million yards of material, I would
consider that maybe a medium‑sized operation. So you maybe get some
equipment that isn\'t so big. A lot of this is limited by the amount of
roadwork you might want to do on the site. If you have a site with
millions, tens of millions of cubic yards of material or tons of
material that needs to be moved, you want the biggest trucks you can get
in there, but then you have to do the associated roadwork that will
handle those trucks.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Let\'s go back to the computer screen for a minute,
because this is a very important point on equipment sizing, and if you
look ‑‑ just, Scott, if you can use a color on the light pen on the
equipment sizing area, you notice that you\'ve got a selection of the
sizes of buckets your wheel loader, and it will pay you to pay you to
spend some time with a, say, something like a cat pillar book. Let\'s
use a really obvious example. You can\'t load a 20 ton dump truck with a
KUBOTA Front‑end loader without doing a lot of work in building a ramp.
So matching equipment to equipment is going to be pretty important to
you. Go ahead. Sorry to interrupt.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Don\'t be. Obviously really important. Now I\'m just
wondering if my 6.5 yard loader will load this truck, but I think it
will. So we specified in our example a 6.5 cubic yard loader. So we
click on that, and let\'s ‑‑ before I click on that, let\'s move down to
show those cells down there and maybe pan back just a little bit so we
can get the option box and all those cells in there. Stop right there.
Now, if we click on the 6.5 yard loader now, you will notice that some
of the database information available for that loader will appear at the
bottom of the screen. They\'ll just echo to those cells automatically.
So I\'m just going to click on the 6.5 yard loader, and then we\'ve got
the information that comes along with that loader, which is the bucket
weight capacity of that machine, how much weight each bucket will
handle, the availability ‑‑ now, that availability, I\'m going to let
you read it in the manual, because it\'s estimated based on particular
situations, the sizes of our projects, sizes of our different jobs, and
it\'s a pretty intense calculation. Actually we assume a rolling
resistance and we assume a bucket fill factor for this machine. The
reason all these are on the screen, though, is, as I said before, when
you take this out of the world and compare it to what other people are
thinking, they\'re not going to like what you do. So if you need to
change it, and in this case you\'re not going to like what I do, let\'s
put it that way, these are my assumptions, if you need to change them,
go in and type right over them and they will carry on in the
calculations from this time forward.

\>\> M. Shumaker: How are we doing with the load, haul, dumb exercise.

\>\> Caller: We\'re not doing very good. I\'m getting messages telling
me I can\'t enter any information. This is Jerry in buffalo.

\>\> S. Stebbins: I\'m not sure why you couldn\'t enter any information.

\>\> S. Murrellwright: In equipment parameters?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Which information are you trying to enter?

\>\> M. Shumaker: Jerry, which information are you trying to put in that
isn\'t letting you take it?

\>\> Caller: It\'s the wheel loader information.

\>\> S. Stebbins: The parameters down here? At the bottom of the screen?

\>\> Caller: The upper part.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Well, I\'m not ‑‑ not sure what we\'re talking about,
when you click on that 6.5, you should click on it using the left click
part of your mouse, and then it selects that machine and enters the
information in the cells below there.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Jerry, is it not letting you click on the bucket size?

\>\> S. Stebbins: This may be something we need to handle outside of
this. ‑‑ in a little while we\'ll be giving you a help line phone number
you can call into this evening and tomorrow to talk to Scott about
problems you may be having with the exercise and also problems you may
be having running the program.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Any time, send an e‑mail. That is what I will be
monitoring this evening, is the e‑mail, and all day tomorrow any time
one comes in, I will try to answer it as quickly as I.

\>\> M. Shumaker: What I think we probably need to do with our time
remaining is move on. Jerry, I am sorry, but we\'ll need to keep on
moving here.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Next thing we need to do is specify the size of the
truck. Let\'s go to our computer screen and go to the check boxes in the
upper left‑hand corner of the screen, click on truck, and we\'ll have a
list of available trucks come up. Then we move back over to this
available sizes box, and again, let\'s back up so we can see what comes
up on the bottom of the screen when we click on the size of the truck.
We specified a 20 ton truck. I\'m going to click on that, and you see
the information that came up below there, which includes the volume of
that particular truck that it will handle, the availability, again,
I\'ll let you read about that, a rolling resistance and a bed fill
factor. Those are pretty generic numbers that are there just so you can
adjust them. I just want you to be able to adjust those numbers if you
want. Now, on the right‑hand side of the screen and up a little higher
is where we specify our haul profile.

\>\> Caller: I have a question. This is Doug from Carson field office in
Nevada.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Hi, Doug. Go ahead.

\>\> Caller: From the defaults that are in the program, can we see how
they\'re derived?

\>\> S. Stebbins: I didn\'t quite hear all your question. Sorry.

\>\> Caller: I was asking if there\'s a discussion in the manual about
where the availabilities and the other defaults come from that pop up on
the screens when you pick ‑‑

\>\> S. Stebbins: Some of them are, Doug ‑‑ not all of them ‑‑ let me
look real quick here. Let\'s ‑‑ I\'m sorry, I jumped ahead there. Let\'s
click on availability on that truck right there, which is the 92.2%
availability and let\'s down to the help screen which is below in the
center, the help text label that gets us the help screen. If we click on
that help screen, you will see the help screen comes up and it tells you
a little bit about how we come up with that value. So that\'s
essentially how that number is calculated. Now, most of this information
is available in the manual. And help screens are available for every
cell. We, of course, try to make them ‑‑ provide the information you\'re
looking for. Sometimes we fail on that, and in that case, you are
certainly free to write me an e‑mail and I\'ll give you an in‑depth
discussion of how each number comes up.

\>\> M. Shumaker: I want to dive in here. We\'re starting to run pretty
badly behind but that sometimes happens. I just got a note in from
Jennifer in Craig, and Jerry in buffalo is not the only one having a
problem with changing the bucket size back in the wheel loader section.
So what I\'m going to ask Jerry and Jennifer each to do is contact Scott
after class and see what\'s going on, see if maybe there\'s a loading
problem with the program. Anyway, we do need to move on.

\>\> Caller: I cleared out of it and came back again and now I can get
it to work.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Good. I don\'t know if everybody heard that or not,
but he evidently went back, hit the reset button and started over again
and got everything to work. I\'m not sure why that would do that, but
I\'m happy that maybe the program is flexible enough to let us get past
some of these things.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Scott is going to be available by phone all day
tomorrow, by e‑mail and by fax. As you\'re working with this, practicing
through it, give him a ring and we can work through the problems.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Matt is moving me along and the reason is I want to
get through one of these examples to use one of these three in echelon
screen and at least one example of one of the other screens before we
turn you loose on this example and we\'re just going to kind of have
enough time to do that. So if you\'re having problems at this point,
maybe the thing is to write me an e‑mail and I\'ll do my best to answer
them. Let\'s return to our computer screen and hit the return to get the
help screen off there. We\'re going to go to the right of the screen
that we\'re on and we\'re going to enter our haul profile. I believe we
said we\'re going to ‑‑ the first segment we\'ll be moving the
material ‑‑ shoot ‑‑ we\'re up here and we need to click on that cell,
the distance cell in the upper right‑hand corner of the screen.

\>\> M. Shumaker: You\'re about to enter the distance in feet.

\>\> S. Stebbins: Yes. Type in 4,000. Hit the tab button. Then we\'re
going to go 2%, up a 2% gradient to start with. Hit the tab button again
for the second segment. Then we\'re going to go 800 feet, and then hit
the tab again if that we\'re going to go downhill this time so it\'s a
minus 10% gradient. Hit the tab again to make sure the cell accepts it.
That\'s all we need to do on this screen. We\'ve specified the size of
our loader and our truck and now we\'ll move on to the next screen. So
we need to go to the lower right‑hand corner of this screen, click next,
and we\'re on the final screen, and you\'ll look in the upper left‑hand
corner of the screen. The program has echoed a loader cycle time based
on information we have in the program ‑‑ or in the database for that
specific machine. It\'s calculated a truck cycle time, of course, based
on the loader cycle time a the distance we need to haul the material.
Now we to enter our volume, which was 345690 or something close to that.
But before we hit tab, let\'s back out a little bit and look in the
right‑hand ‑‑ all the cells on the right‑hand side of the screen.
You\'ll notice we can stop about there. You notice when you hit the tab
button which accepts that value into the program it does all the rest of
the calculations for you. So it says we\'re going to need 318 hours of
loader time, 3,000 hours about of haulage time with the trucks. And you
can see the assumptions it makes, the estimates it makes for the crew,
how much foreman time we need, how much loader operator time we need,
how truck driver time we need. You can change any of those values. Okay?
We\'ve gotten to this point, but if you do this by hand and you come up
with a different number, you can change any of these values you want to.
We also have the hourly cost for the machine, and that\'s a bulk figure,
but it includes repair parts, on site maintenance, overhaul maintenance.
In this case, tires, bucket teeth, fuel, lubricants, ownership costs are
all included in that number. So just ‑‑ simply takes the hours,
multiplies by the hourly cost and you come up with the overall cost on
the right, and it sums those costs and echos to the bottom of the
screen. So to move this material that we specified here, we say it\'s
going to cost about \$250,000. Now, I know there\'s some of you that
might be saying, I look at it, and that\'s a lot of money, it\'s just
loading it and moving it. But we are moving bit a mile. So off the top
of my head I wouldn\'t be too dissatisfied with that number. We\'re
going to move on now. Like I say, if you have any questions about this,
write me an e‑mail and they\'ll put up my e‑mail address again here and
I\'ll work those tonight. Let\'s move back to the menu and to do that we
want to go back to our computer screens. Instead of menu now we have
previous, and those are in the lower left‑hand corner of our screen
that\'s up now. That\'s so we can move back to the screen that\'s in
front of it. We move back to the first screen. Then we hit menu and
we\'re back where we started. And let\'s close that submenu. That\'s
really the trickiest thing to use in the program, are those three in
echelon screens. The rest of this stuff is pretty easy to do. I\'ll show
you in a minute. But the practice on the in echelon screens is where
most of the work needs to be done. We\'ve tried to make it as flexible
as we can. You can overwrite any of those numbers. The way those
numbers, availability, rolling resistance, all of those things, how we
come about with those numbers, are either on the help screens or you
might find information in the manual. There\'s a lot of information in
that manual.

\>\> M. Shumaker: It looks like we\'ll have to skip ahead a little bit.
Where are we going to head to now?

\>\> S. Stebbins: We\'re going to head to slide number 739. We\'re going
to put a fence in just to show you guys how to use this ‑‑ the other
screens here. So we\'re going to go down ‑‑ I\'m hoping we\'re going
down to site work. We\'re going to click on ‑‑ when we get the computer
screens back up, we\'re going to click on site work in our data entry
menu. We\'ll come down and click on site work. We\'ll have a list of
things that you can do on the site. And when you get a chance this
evening, you might go through every one of these menus and submenus to
see all the options that are available. There are quite a few right now,
but we assume we\'re going to add to this list. We want to click fences.
These screens are really calculators. They are straightforward. You\'ll
be able to adjust numbers by the data that you enter. It should ‑‑ you
should have no trouble with these, but remember, you can adjust anything
you find on these screens. That\'s a point I keep coming back to, I
know. But in our example, let\'s look at the slide number 739. What we
want to do is we want to put a chain link fence topped with barbed wire
around our tailings pond. We are going to make this fence 10 feet high.
Altogether the entire linear length of this fence, linear length, I
can\'t believe I said that, is 1400 feet. There\'s going to be 11
corners to this fence and we\'re going to have three gates in it. Let\'s
go back to our computer screen and enter this data. The fence
construction, you\'ll see there\'s a text box that is opened up at the
bottom of the screen and whenever a text box opens up, an options list
box, we have to make our selection that from box. So we want to click on
chain linked barbed wire, which is the type of fence we specified. Just
click on it. It will show up. If we go to the top of the screen, it will
show up right there at the top of the screen. We said the fence is going
to be 10 feet high. So we just type in 10. Tab down to the next entry.
We said it will be 1400 feet long. We enter that number. Tab down to the
next entry. We\'re going to have 11 corners. Enter that. Tab down to the
next entry. We\'re going to have 3 gates on this thing. Let\'s enter the
3 but don\'t tab just yet. Enter that 3 there. Then let\'s pan out on
the screen so we can look at the right‑hand side of the screen. Most of
the calculations have already been done, but when we put the gates in
you\'ll see a little more is added to it. We hit the tab key again and
everything on the right of the screen are our calculations. Now, this is
what I wanted to point out about sitting down with an applicant and
talking about coming to some understanding an agreement about what
things cost. You can see, we have an augur and we have a flatbed truck.
The augur is to drill the holes. The flatbed struck to get the materials
to our site to build the fence. We have our labor laid out. We have the
fencing, the corners, posts, all the other posts. If you look to the
right of the screen there, you will see a scroll bar. If we click down
on that, you\'ll see we also have the gates in there. Over to the right
we have the unit prices for every one of those things. 1900 a gate. \$43
per post. \$73 for the corner posts and the fencing material, the chain
link material and the barbed wire together in this case, \$33 a foot. We
also have the wages from the Davis‑Bacon thing in there and we have the
operating cost for the augur and the flatbed truck. Here\'s my point.
You might disagree with every number that\'s in there. Or you are
applicant might disagree with number that\'s in there, but from my
perspective, from a guy who estimates costs for a living, if we just
hide those numbers, then we can argue for about it. But if they\'re
there, they know the assumptions we\'ve made, we know the assumptions
we\'ve made, and we can work from this point. We don\'t just make up
these numbers, of course. The operating costs are from the equipment
manufacturers. The crew costs are Davis‑Bacon wages. The materials and
supplies are from vendors. They\'re averages from vendors. We just
don\'t make all this stuff up. They\'re good numbers but you may have
better numbers. I\'m not going to argue with the fact you guys might
have better numbers out there. Anyway, this is my point about how the
program is laid out. I want this information on the screen in front of
you as you\'re working on this and in case you end up having to work
with an applicant or defending these numbers to anybody. We\'re going to
have to go through this quick. Let\'s hit menu. Let\'s hit close. Let\'s
go over to the project output screens. We\'ll click on that and you\'ll
see the fleet we need for our project. , which all we have now is moving
that material, that stockpile, and putting in this fence. And you\'ll
see we have a flatbed truck to get stuff out to the site and back. We
have a rear dump hauler, the 20 ton hauler, the Front‑end loader, the
augur. The computer program won\'t ‑‑ the ‑‑ if you go to another screen
and specify you want another 6.5 yard cubic yard Front‑end loader, it
won\'t let you do it. It won\'t let you haul two 6.5 yard loaders out to
the site unless in the situation of trucks that we were talking about
earlier.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Is that the situation where you have multiple trucks
making ‑‑ trying to optimize the use of the Front‑end loader.

\>\> S. Stebbins: But we\'re not as concerned ‑‑ you\'re doing a mining
project, you\'re concerned about how long it takes to do all the work.
You want a production rate over a year. Here in this calculation,
certainly contractor is concerned about that, but we\'re not as
concerned about that when we\'re estimating the cost. We just need to
know how many hours we need to operate that machine to get the job done.
Whether we have one or eight out there is not our concern. We need to
know how many hours of work need to be done. We\'re not doing on a cash
flow or a time line basis. Let\'s go back to the menu. Go to our crew
requirements on that list. I know Matt\'s probably concerned about how
long this is taking us here but we\'re just about done. You can see
there we\'ve laid out the labor requirements for this particular
project. And like I say, our haul truck drivers have to be out there
4,000 hours, but in the real world situation that\'s going to be eight
trucks running 500 hours. With eight associated operators with them, but
that\'s not our concern, really, here when we\'re just calculating how
much it\'s going to cost to do it if we\'re not worried about how long
it takes to do it in terms of months or years. Let\'s hit menu and go
back. Our mobilization screen, then, says that the machines we\'re going
to have to haul out to the site include that rear dump hauler and that
front‑end loader, and this is a place where we need to be worried about
how many trucks. So if you know you\'re going to have three trucks out
there, you might want to adjust that unit cost to account for that that
you\'re going to have to make three trips instead of one. I\'m going to
think about that a little. That was a really good question. So we go to
the lower left‑hand corner, go back to our menu, and we have a project
cost summary over here. If we screen out we\'ll just see ‑‑ look what I
did. I did the example for the hauling the stockpile but I didn\'t type
in a label for the putting in the fence, so it\'s an unlabeled value
there. Anyway, that\'s the sum total of the work we need to do to get
the reclamation work done here. Hit menu again. We\'ll end up back in
our project menu. Here\'s our administrative costs. Right now we\'re
just going to let you look at them. We\'ll talk about them much more
tomorrow. Yes, I\'m wondering why that screen is empty. I know why it\'s
empty. Sorry, we\'ll talk about it tomorrow. You won\'t have that
problem when you start working through a project from the beginning. We
just went to a cell and started entering data.

\>\> M. Shumaker: So when they work on the project this evening, when
they bring that screen up, there will be suggested data in it?

\>\> S. Stebbins: Yes. And then what will show up in the end is the bond
estimate, which is just a sum of all the information, and like I say,
the administration costs, if we had started from the start, would have a
value in there. Now, you\'re going to ‑‑ like I say, we went through the
last half of this quick and we\'ll talk more about this on Thursday,
these last values, but you have a project to do tonight, and I\'ve done
my best to simplify it for you. One of the interesting things about this
particular project, it\'s a real world project. We will able to compare
it to the costs that I\'m not sure who came up with the costs, it\'s
either the BLM or a contractor, and in the case that we\'re looking at,
it\'s a fairly large project, about as large as maybe the project ‑‑ the
software is designed to handle. So we have things like there will be 15
or 20 load, haul, dump jobs. What I have done in the sheet that you will
be able to download is compile those interest one. We\'ve averaged ‑‑
done a weight average for the haul gradient and haul distance. That\'s
another way to use the program. You can make it just one value if you
want. The interesting thing about the project is that in my own mind is
there one\'s big huge bulk cost in there that we don\'t have an entry
for but I to see if you\'ve understood enough about what I\'m talking
about that you can get that number in there, because you can. When we
come back Thursday, that\'s the first thing we\'ll do, is probably go
through that example, although we might want to talk a little more about
the results screen first. And I should hand this back to Matt any second
now.

\>\> M. Shumaker: Actually we have a little more time than it looks like
we have. We have about seven minutes before the scheduled end, and we
can run over a little bit if we need to. But over the next 24 hours or
so there is an assignment for you to work, and you can find that
assignment, which consists of three adobe acrobat files, and that
assignment we\'ve got showing at CG‑111, and that will bring up the
location of the assignment, and basically you can find that at\...
That\'s really just a fancy way of saying that the assignment is located
at the BLMSHARE drive. Now, most of you that are with us right now
received an e‑mail message from me yesterday through DOI Learn that
shows that location, and I asked you to get back in touch with me if you
couldn\'t find those three .PDFs. If you haven\'t had a chance to look
and can\'t get to them, please let me know. What I can do is put it up
at our FTP site for the Training Center and you will be able to get it.
Two of the .PDFs are fairly small and one is a complete project
description and it runs 120 pages or so. So you probably don\'t
necessarily want to print it but you can look at it. What we\'re going
to be lubing for from you by 3 p.m. Pacific time tomorrow is your
results, and if we can go back to the results screen on the Sherpa
class, that\'s what we would like you to send to Scott by e‑mail.

\>\> S. Stebbins: May I interrupt?

\>\> M. Shumaker: Certainly.

\>\> S. Stebbins: That is one thing you can send to me by e‑mail if you
want or if you just want to send the data file, the file you save when
you\'re done with the project, that might be the easiest way. I can load
those each in about a minute and a half and get an idea where your
results are. May I talk for just a minute?

\>\> M. Shumaker: We\'ve got some time.

\>\> S. Stebbins: One person, and I can\'t remember who it was, sent me
an e‑mail just last week saying when they got to the administrative cost
screen that no values were there, and it just reminded me that you had
sent that in, and I just ‑‑ like you saw, I just did the same thing and
no values were there, and I don\'t understand why that\'s happening. If
any of you are having that problem, let me know. It\'s certainly not the
way the program is designed, but if we can go to that screen right now,
let me give you some values to type in if no numbers come up.

\>\> M. Shumaker: So we\'re going to the project overhead cost screen.
If your default values aren\'t there, let\'s put a contingency of 10%
in, a 15% profit, and hopefully you can jot down the numbers as I\'m
putting them in, liability insurance, let\'s say it\'s 8%. The bond
premium, let\'s put 2%. I don\'t remember offhand. Evening engineering
and design, let\'s put 18%. Agency indirects, we talked about 21%. And
the agency contract management fee, let\'s put in 12%. So if you get
there and know numbers show up, let me know, because something has run
amok, but you can just enter these values and you\'ll come up with the
results anyway. But, yeah, what would be easiest for you to send in
would be just to save it all to a data file and then e‑mail the file to
my e‑mail address and I\'ll download them and look at them. And what I
haven\'t said about the project is, we\'ve given you a lot of numbers to
work with, but we\'re going to make you choose the equipment, both the
types and the sizes, just to see how you do. So there is no right answer
to this project. We\'re hoping you\'ll come up with close to what the
estimate is on the information we got from the contractor, but give it
your best shot with the equipment. Remember, this would be kind of a
medium or large‑medium sized operation and maybe let that be your guide
as to sizing equipment. Back to you, Matt.

\>\> M. Shumaker: If you can bring up the screen which is the results
menu, Scott, go find that and bring it up ‑‑ yeah, the project costs
summary there, if for some reason you can\'t e‑mail Scott those results
or the data file, you can go ahead and print this screen and fax it to
us at 602‑906‑5713. Now, if you run into difficulties while you\'re
working on this, you can contact Scott Stebbins directly by e‑mail at
aventsherp@aol.com. I can guarantee you that Scott will be monitoring
his e‑mail very closely for the remainder of today and tomorrow and also
those of you that have been sending e‑mails to me where you\'ve been
running into glitches, I haven\'t necessarily brought them out as
questions, but I have either forwarded your e‑mail to Scott or replied
to you with a copy to Scott. So you will be getting an answer from him
on those. Now, remember, if you want to receive credit for this class
we, need to receive your result either by e‑mail to Scott at the e‑mail
address that we put up a few minutes ago or by fax, and we need to
receive it by 3 p.m. Pacific time tomorrow. The reason we\'re putting
that kind of an early requirement on it is we need some time, Scott
especially needs some time, to look at the results and see how things
are falling in. And if you get into a real jam and can\'t finish the
whole thing, well, send us what you\'ve got. It should be fairly
straightforward. But probably the most difficult and time consuming part
of this is going to be going through the problem itself and figuring out
what equipment to use and what jobs need to be accomplished. If you look
back at where we were this morning on this particular kind of work,
really the calculations are probably only a third of it, two‑thirds of
it is equipment selection and figuring out what the dirt work needs to
be. On Thursday we\'re going to go over this exercise and review your
results, and then Scott will show you what he thinks his answer is, not
necessarily the right answer, and we\'ll try to answer any more
questions that you may have. We hope that the ‑‑ what you have been
doing today with this training has been useful. I know that a lot of
this is almost as much fun as watching paint dry, but I\'d like to thank
you for staying with us, and we hope we\'ve answered some of your
questions. Anyway, thanks for joining us today, and we\'ll see you back
on Thursday. Remember, you can call Scott at this number, 602‑906‑5650.
That is our help line. If you call in Scott will answer or there will be
voice mail, and the only use that line has, it will work today, it will
work tomorrow, and that\'s if you want to phone in a question. You can
phone the question. You can e‑mail the question. Or you can fax the
question. Again, thanks for joining us today, and we\'ll see you back on
Thursday.