\[crew talk: No official transcript for first 3mins 20secs.\]

Q: What possessed you to go to Selma? What had you heard about what was
going on in Selma that really kind of inspired you to head in that
direction?

**Peter Pettus:** Well, the way it worked out, I had just recently
resigned from the State Department. I was a Foreign Service Officer, and
I served during the three years of Kennedy's administration. So when he
was assassinated, it three everybody, uhm- for a curve, but in my case I
decided to go away from that part of the government and- and, uhm- do,
uhm- creative photography. So I'd left, but there was something in the
air at the time, triggered maybe by- by his assassination, that- that
created a feeling that the nation was coming to a crossroads. It was
just a feeling in the air. I was still living in Washington, uhm- most
of my friends were involved in- in- in that sort of thing, public policy
in one way or another, and I was doing a lot of different kinds of
photography, a lot of creative photography, uhm- without any particular
professional concentration. I was just a, I guess, freelance
photographer, but the idea of going to join the march, uhm- was- was an
idea that was in the air, they had, uhm- created the idea of a freedom
train that was going to go down from Union Station, uhm- in Washington
to Union Station in Montgomery, and on it were a- a large number of
northern- northern liberals, I would say, uhm- including a lot of people
from the Washington area who were involved to one extent or another. I
was peripheral to this group, really, because I was more, uhm- there,
uhm- without an agenda. I was not hired by anybody; I went down simply
because of a- a profound feeling that this was an event that was pivotal
in- in- in the nation's history, and I wanted to be there. What I would
do with the photographs I really hadn't thought through; no one was
sending me there, and I wasn't getting paid. I just thought that, as an
independent freelance photographer, I should go. So I did. And we went
down with a group that in- included, uhm- uhm- a fellow named Gerry
Studds who eventually became the very successful Congressman from the
eastern part of Massachusetts, the islands New Bedford and so forth,
uhm- and he was- we were both young; we were all young -- we were quite
young. So we went down, a group of us, and we joined this large
collection of people who represented various --

\<crew talk\>

Q: Now, Bloody Sunday had already happened, right?

**Peter Pettus:** That's right.

Q: That Sunday, footage was shown on ABC Television, this is gonna be
for an audience, and many of the kids who see this show will never know
it, and have only heard about all of this. That was a pretty shocking
thing, wasn't it, Bloody Sunday? What do you remember?

**Peter Pettus:** It was, uhm- but- but I emphasize that-

Q: What was it that we were talking about?

**Peter Pettus:** We were talking about the reasons of going- the reason
I was going down there, what was-

Q: We were talking about Bloody Sunday, so that's what I need to hear.

**Peter Pettus:** Yeah. I mean- I mean, the feeling about Bloody Sunday,
the feeling about the whole run-up to this event was very slow to
impinge on our awareness. I was just a guy, yet- uhm- working for the-
for the State Department, and I had no really refined political
ideology, point of view; we were just going through life. We were kids.
It just became clear and this Bloody Sunday was- was an aspect of it
that- that seriously disruptive events were occurring that- uhm- were
inclined to bring a lot of these matters to a head. There was a sense of
impending concentration of, uhm- of events that were going to, uhm- be
pivotal; they were going to be decisive in some way. It was like, uhm-
uhm- the feeling you would have before a battle, that you know that
impending forces are coming together and there's going to be a
resolution, and it was that part of it that I felt that it was important
to be a part of without really being deeply aware of all the
ramifications of the Civil Rights Movement necessarily. This came later,
uhm- and I think this was true of most of the people who went down on
the freedom train, that they were not particularly sophisticated -- a
lot of them were- were young and not sophisticated at all. Uhm- but
there was a sense of purpose and of coming together for a cause that may
not have been entirely clear to them that, uhm- really motivated, that
brought us all together. It was an extraordinary thing because on the
train there were, uhm- some black preachers whom we got into singing a
gospel type of thing that, you know, was a- was fairly new to- to a lot
of us. And we were progressing further and further south, so there was
this sense of the unknown, of penetrating really enemy territory. Uhm-
maybe those feelings were a little overdrawn, but that's what we felt at
the time. And, uhm- for example, I remember that there was a- the
picture from Life Magazine of Beau Connor was pasted up on the- uhm- on
the bull- on the- inside the railroad car, as if we wanted to understand
what we were visceral \[ph?\], you see, uhm- what we were getting into.
So there was a- there was a sense of, uhm- inchoate fear, a sense of,
uhm- the enemy is without, and we were- we were there, uhm- in a maybe
defenseless position, so there was all these feelings because it was
unknown. Uhm- so that was the- that was the attitude of this group that
came, really, from all over -- I think all over the northeast. Uhm-
there were contingents from Connecticut; there were- there were- there
were some people from all over, uhm- but we were, uhm- we were the
Washington group, and that's how we got there, so the photography that I
did was based on trying to- trying to reflect what actually was
happening in terms of the feelings of the people who were involved. But
this is what I ended up doing, uhm- and so I recorded our arrival, uhm-
I tried to record, uhm- really the emotional, the human emotional
aspects of this- of this experience, but without any profound ideology,
I emphasize. It was not an ideological thing at that time - that grew
later as the realization of the really profundity of- of what was
happening became clear.

Q: Had you been south before?

**Peter Pettus:** Not really, no, I hadn't. Uhm-

Q: No, I need a full sentence there to -- you know, "I've never been
south before."

**Peter Pettus:** No, I admit, I, uhm- I'd never been south before, uhm-
except maybe to Florida, but that was really scarcely the south,
although, uhm- there were, uhm- strong family connections there, uhm- in
the south and be- and in Alabama in particular, uhm- hence the Edmund
Pettus Bridge which was a branch, the Pettus -- that group was a branch
of my family, uhm- as well, and so, uhm- I was dimly aware of that, uhm-
but it was a new experience for me, having grown up in St Louis where-
where race relations were maybe not, uhm- not great, but it was not the
confrontational situation that we were- we felt and we were reacting to
and were getting involved in then.

Q: All right, back track. Before we even talk about the Edmund Pettus
Bridge --

\<crew talk\>

Q: Let's go on to the Edmund Pettus Bridge. There's some connection
between you and Edmund Pettus?

**Peter Pettus:** It turns -- yes, the Edmund Pettus Bridge, uhm- the
name struck a bell, uhm- because obviously it's the same name. It turns
out that everyone named Pettus is descended from one Sir Thomas Pettus
who came to the Williamsburg, Virginia area in 1639, and, uhm- owned a
plantation, and, uhm- owned slaves, and, uhm- and part of the family
went to the South and Edmund Winston Pettus was a Confederate War
General who subsequently became a Senator from Alabama and after whom
the bridge was named. All this became clear to me much later. At the
time when I was down there, I didn't know this family history. It's
interesting and poignant to me now, because, uhm- this was the way this
one family developed part of it in the Mid-West and really North and the
other part in the Deep South. Uhm- so, it is an aspect of my
participation that has me- that is- that is clear to me now later, uhm-
than- than it was at the time. Uhm- let's see, what I want to get back
to --

Q: Let me lead you.

**Peter Pettus:** Okay.

Q: So now you get to the South. Selma is way down there in Alabama.

**Peter Pettus:** Right.

Q: I know, I grew up in Alabama. Tell me, were there surprises for you
in terms of -- I know you went with some anticipations and some
impressions. Give me some impressions that sort of stuck with you.

**Peter Pettus:** The way it developed when we arrived down there, we
would have, uhm- training sessions to prepare us for the worst. These
were very unsettling; I was not a kid who had seen a tremendous amount
of, uhm- uncontrolled violence in my life, and, uhm- a lot of us were
emotionally shaken. Uhm- clearly there was grounds, sufficient grounds,
for concern; uhm- and this served to impress us -- impress me -- with
both the intensity and the seriousness and the- the, uhm- this- this-
the sense of commitment really on both sides that was very hard to
absorb. That people felt so strongly, uhm- against the Civil Rights
Movement that they were willing to commit, uhm- violent acts, and people
felt so strongly for it that they were willing to put their lives at
risk, and we know that there was loss of life. So, suddenly this became
very serious and very clear, and, uhm- we all began to feel that the-
the depth of it. As the events unfolded, and as I was working with my
camera, it became clear that what I wanted to do was to record the
faces, record some of the people as we moved through various areas, both
those participating in the march and also people observing either with
great hostility, the whites, or with, uhm- feelings of indifference on
their part, or the, uhm- the enthusiasm of the- of the black, uhm-
spectators along the- the route of march. That- that it was- it was
their faces, their story, their emotional reaction to what was going on
that really became the focus of- of my work. That was I ended up doing;
that's what interested me the most, uhm- and I thing the photographs
show in the faces the- the range of feelings, from fear on the one hand
to euphoria on the other; to doubts, to suspicion that, you know, maybe
this is gonna collapse and the situation will revert to what it had been
-- very many ambivalent emotions on all sides. And I think that's what,
uhm- that's what I did do, and that's what interested me at the time.
But in addition to that, I mean, there was this sense of the pivotal
enormity of this event in the nation's history. This was the thing. Here
for the first time a decision was going to be made that committed the
nation to really inclusivity is the way I felt about it. That they're
saying everyone, and we mean everyone, is included in this American
dream, uhm- of freedom, and this was- this was emotionally clear, uhm-
when we were there; it became clearer and clearer as I became aware of
the historical dimension of what we were doing. This was not clear to me
before. But it became very, very, uhm- sobering, uhm- when- when- when I
began to realize what was- what was at stake, and- and, uhm- the role
that we were playing simply by being there.

\<crew talk\>

Q: Whether it was a motion picture or a film, documentary film,
television to a degree and/or even still photography was important, I
felt, as I was a kid at the time in school, but I thought it was
important because for the first time a lot of people had ever really
looked \<inaudible\>

**Peter Pettus:** That's right.

Q: Do you know what I'm saying?

**Peter Pettus:** Absolutely right, yes.

Q: And,\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ because they're just gonna come down
here \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, so, you know, the kind of impressions that
you have --

\[crew talk\]

**Peter Pettus:** The thing about it was, we were on this train, we came
from another land, really, and we were going into, uhm- a part of the
country that very few of us had any experience of, any knowledge of,
hadn't been to the South, didn't know the people, uhm- certainly didn't
know what the blacks were up to. Uhm- this was all new. And the thing
about it when we got there, and we started to look at the faces of the
people who were involved who couldn't come back and forth as we were
able to do, but were there and lived there, and lived with the situation
-- that was sobering, that was incredible, because I was looking at the
faces, both directly and also through the viewfinder. And so what I was-
what I was becoming increasingly aware of is the extraordinary, I mean,
humanity I suppose is what I mean to say. Uhm- these were real people
living in a real part of the world in real time, uhm- under
circumstances that I could scarcely conceive of because I was from the
North, and I just didn't have any understanding. And I think many of us
felt that same way. That- the- the friendliness, the openness and, more
important, the anticipation -- maybe fearful anticipation - that I saw
on the faces, the ambivalence, like, maybe this is going to be a good
thing for us, but there are threats, and maybe it isn't. It's the sense
of no one knew for sure. It was like you're in a battle no one knows how
it's going to turn out. In hindsight, it's one thing, but that was not
the feeling you had right then and there because nobody knew what to
expect, and nobody knew how it was going to evolve. But the resolution
and the sense of- of hope and possible future that you could see, I
could see, in the faces of the people around me made a tremendous
impression, and that's what I hope I got in the photographs. At the same
time I saw the fear, the doubt, the threat on the faces of the, uhm-
working class whites. I could see the depth of their resentment; I could
see the depth of their fear of change, and that also resonated because
they were real people living right there at the same time with their
situation, and it was the way that both were there on the line of march
because we knew that these people, unlike us, they had to stay there.
And it was the possibility, not the sureness of it, that maybe it could
work out -- maybe there could be a way for this part of the country, at
this particular problem, to start to work towards, uhm- a better, uhm- a
resolution. But the feeling was of doubt, fear and possibility, and the
future; it- it was- it was an amazing feeling emotionally, uhm- and as
young as we were, this really got through to us.

Q: Now, I've heard people talk about these -- I've participated in some
of the big anti-war demonstrations in San Francisco in the 1960s and
what have you. I never really got a chance to do one of the big marches
in the South or in the Civil Rights marches. People say that all of what
you described as emotionality sort of fuses you to the group upon the
occasion of the march actually stepping off, the unexpected ahead of you
--

\<crew talk\>

Q: So, paint me a picture of that day that you marched across that
bridge that was named for one of your ancestors, you know, in Selma.
What was that day like?

**Peter Pettus:** Well, uhm- you have to break here for a moment. I
never marched across the bridge --

Q: Okay.

**Peter Pettus:** - because that was a whole another episode. What our
group did, uhm- well, we came down later and joined the march much
closer to Montgomery --

Q: Oh, okay.

**Peter Pettus:** So the group that- that was on- the- the group of- of
prominent Washington, New Englanders, they did- they were not part of
the entire sweep, so I hope I can, you know, get that point. I mean, we
don't have to get in -- but, but- if I can, uhm- let's see where I can
pick this up. Uhm- the feeling along the line of march that we had, uhm-
was the unexpected and the hope. It- it was- it became clearer and
clearer as we- as we watched the people, both, uhm- the blacks along the
roadside and the whites, that this was a pivotal moment in time. This
was where the nation real- right then and there, it was a remarkable-
it's like the key point in a- in a military engagement. This is when
it's all going to be resolved, and this was the- this was the sense
that- that this entire, uhm- issue was going to have to be resolved,
that the- the, uhm- the obfuscate- the- the reconstruction, the- the-
the failed reconstruction solution was no longer a possibility, uhm- and
of course, as you know, I mean, the- the issue has been brushed under
the rug since the founding fathers. It was something that nobody really
wanted to face. And so the feeling there- and- and I- this has been
reinforced to me reading and historically a- attentive afterwards, but
this was really the point where the resolution could no longer be
postponed, and that was the feeling along the line of the march, that,
uhm- resolution was at hand. We were going to have to deal with it, and
the sense that- that freedom was universal -- that was the deal, that
was the feeling. That- that- that everyone is- is profoundly entitled
to- to freedom, and this is the motivating notion of the United States
in my opinion. It still is; it's the notion that- that- that we- that
freedom is something that God gives, and that to- to which we are all
entitled, and that was the feeling that no longer could freedom be
parceled out: some get it, some don't. The way in which this feeling at
the time, people young, not knowing the ramifications, simply took over
their personality, and made them see this entire situation, uhm- in an
entirely different way. For example, a lot of the attitudes and the
feelings when we left, the sense amongst a lot of these younger people,
this was a lark. This was some sort of adventure, but every hour that we
were involved, when we got down there, the profound impact, the
seriousness, became- became clearer and clearer, and, uhm- it changed us
all; it changed us all, uhm- for ever, really, uhm- and it was a
privilege in that sense to have been involved, there's no question about
it. It changed, uhm- it changed my point of view, uhm- and it changed
the nation's point of view, is my conviction.

Q: To be sure. \<inaudible\> Let me ask you this: you were there, you
were taking photographs. I'm really curious about, you know, what one
sees and what one shoots. I can go back and I'd pull out all your
photos, you know, the ones that have been chosen for the exhibition and
what have you, and I could ask you about every single one just on the
porch.

**Peter Pettus:** Yes.

Q: Feeling secure. That's their porch, that's their home. And I noticed
in one shot, for example, although they were probably -- it probably
would have been wonderful for everybody to just step off the porch and
be closer to \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_; that's a human thing.

**Peter Pettus:** Because they weren't- they weren't sure where this was
going.

Q: Do you know what I'm saying?

**Peter Pettus:** And they were not sure they were gonna --

Q: Absolutely.

**Peter Pettus:** - risk their lives on this one.

Q: When you were observing and shooting all this, were you seething
these kinds of things while you shoot? So why did you shoot some of this
stuff that you shot, because I like some of this stuff?

**Peter Pettus:** Well I- I was- I was trying to get a feel for what- I
was trying to feel myself around, through this, because the virtue of my
position is I had no -- I had no boss, I had no newspaper. I was not
doing this to record the historical event so much as experience it and
feel it, and that was because, uhm- I was working for no one, for
myself, so what I was feeling was what I asked the camera to- to do, and
it- the camera was sorting its way through this human experience the
exact same way I was, so, yeah, so I mean, there- there'd be- there'd be
pictures of guys, uhm- ban- you know, trading foot salve as the sore
foot, uhm- thing, took all- uhm- people washing their feet in muddy
water and so forth. This is just what I saw, because I was trying to
apprehend the emotional human deal. I was not there because I had no one
asking me to record, uhm- the- the historical -- other people took those
great photographs, but I was- I was doing something personal, human and
emotional, and trying to understand what these people were feeling,
really on all sides. Uhm- there are shots that show, in my view,
over-dressed an all-too comfortable northern liberals, let us say, who,
uhm- I felt a little uncomfortable about them too. I- I had no, uhm-
particular editorial preconceptions -- that's the point I make. That I
was trying to feel my way through this and understand it, uhm- as an- as
a human event that was very unfamiliar to me and I was trying to put
myself in it, so the- the genuine quality of the emotional feeling,
really on both sides, on all sides, including even some fairly, uhm-
young and, uhm- unsophisticated kids, uhm- was- was what I was after,
and it was the- it was the depth of their feeling, and you could see it
in their faces, and I think this is what I got in a lot of the
photographs, and also in many cases of the southern -- particularly the
southern blacks -- ambivalence, doubt. Uhm- is this going to be such a
great thing? Many promises had been made, one could argue, and not
fulfilled, so there was that hedging of the bet. Uhm- it was a- it was
an emotionally fascinating and- and you were looking at people whose
faces meant everything that they said. And the faces said it all. There
was no subterfuge. There was no effort to camouflage these ranges of
feeling because they were- they were caught up into it, and we all were,
and that's what I tried to record, that's what I tried to see, and
that's what I think the photographs often show.

Q: Well, I agree with you. Did you stick with the march to and into
Montgomery?

**Peter Pettus:** Yes. Yes, I did; we were there for the- we were there
for the march, from the tail to- all the way to the end, uhm- we were
there for the night before for the Peter, Paul and Mary concert which I,
uhm- probably never forget. Uhm- we were there to experience at that
point this strange combination of euphoria and hope on the one hand,
fear and doubt on the other. Uhm- this was a strange mixture of- of
feelings, uhm- and it would oddly ratchet back and forth between them.
You'd- you'd have, uhm- one fear taking over then- then euphoria
imagining perfection in this- in this battle which, of course, there
never will be, and- but you think that, at the time, young soldier on
the lines, you felt yourself, "This is it, this is going to be the- this
is going to be, uhm- the new age." Well, uhm- the new age never really
ever arrives, but that was the feeling of the time, and it had a- it
had- it had a purity of intent that I think was- was key. There was a
sense of regardless of sh- there were not sh- there were very few shades
of gray, let's put it that way. There was a sense of legitimate, moral
certainty. That's what I remember. Uhm- it may have been overblown in-
in some instances, uhm- a- a moral arrogance, one might say, but, but,
but at the core of it was a sense that this is the right side of
history, this is the right side, this is where we want to be.

Q: So now, you know, that was a pretty good speech by Martin Luther King
that day.

**Peter Pettus:** A great speech!

Q: "Now is the time," he said.

**Peter Pettus:** Yeah.

Q: \<inaudible\>

**Peter Pettus:** No, no, and- and- and- and I guess the -- looking back
on it, what I think -- what's important to me is that, because life and
the history of the country, everything gets much more complicated later
in reality. But for that moment, it was clear. It was morally cl- it was
clear what the right thing to do, the good thing to do, and that's why I
think ultimately I was there; that's why most of those people were
there. It was something that was right then, and it's definitely right
now, uhm- when you look back on it, although the situation has become
much more complicated.

Q: One of the things at his funeral that startled me -- used to startle
me, not in that sense any more -- when I look at pictures, especially
footage of these big marches, is how many people, especially black
folks, were clutching \<inaudible\>

**Peter Pettus:** Uh huh.

Q: \<inaudible\>. Was Montgomery like that? Did you see that? Did that
strike you?

**Peter Pettus:** The- there were flags everywhere. Uhm- there were
American flags everywhere and I have a number of, I think, very
interesting pictures that show this. I have one picture of a- of a- of a
marcher on his- flat on his back holding a very large American flag
which I juxtaposed with the flags on top of the Capital dome, and you
know, maybe if its- I was making a point, true, but it was the ubiquity
of the flags that said, "We're part of the deal. This is the point of it
all. We are-- we are- this is- freedom is I- freedom is- is- belongs to
us all, and that means us and we have to decide that now." That was the
heart of the- of that particular part of the- of the Civil Rights
Movement that I felt, and we all shared in that. This was- there was no
sense of- of apartheid. There was no sense of, uhm- separate but equal.
This- this was not going to be the way this country moved forward, and
everyone felt that, and the American flag really, uhm- exemplified that,
symbolized that feeling of inclusivity: we're all Americans, we're all
entitled, and we're all gonna be together, and we're gonna march on that
way, and that was, uhm- that was the feeling.

Q: So all this was over, and you got back on the train and went north,
right?

**Peter Pettus:** Uh huh.

Q: But it seems to me from talking to you that a lot of these memories
have stuck; a lot of the experiences you've had have really kind of
stuck with you. You're now turning your pictures into a book, you say?

**Peter Pettus:** Yeah, I'd like to take the- the whole body of work
and- and, uhm- make it into a book, uhm- because basically I was then,
and am now, an artist. So I saw this, uhm- as telling us --

Q: What's happening?

\<crew talk\>

Q: You were then and you are now an artist.

**Peter Pettus:** The idea of the book, I took all the photographs and
then, as I would do, I brought them all back and would analyze the
photographs and re-experiencing this whole thing, uhm- and see what the
photographs told me, and I made a book out of it, and I would like to
now see if I can, uhm- publish my version of it. Out of all the pictures
that I took, you could make 20 books, you- depending upon your point of
view. I mean, there are some obviously prominent people, but what I was
interested in was my vision which was, I was an artist and I take, uhm-
an artist's responsibility, so I would -- I still stand by that. I would
like to do that. I would like to see if that could be kept together as
one person's artistic, uhm- view and interpretation of really one of the
great historical events in American history, and I think, uhm- it would
be worth doing.

Q: Certainly, I think so. How we going?

\<crew talk\>

Q: I think you covered a lot of the waterfront. \[ph?\] I guess --

**Peter Pettus:** I mean, I'm kind -- this -- I'm off camera right now,
but I'm leaving off -- I mean, there was, there were a lot of spoiled
brats on this thing, you know, that didn't, you know --

Q: \<inaudible\>

**Peter Pettus:** No, no, but I'm just, between you and me, I mean,
there were a lot of these kids who were, but basically this was- this
was my view. This was my feeling, and this was what I did, uhm- and this
is what I felt, uhm- and if I can get across -- I mean, I think I've
said it, but the purity in hindsight, uhm- hindsight's always distorted,
but there is a sense that you get this was the apogee, this was the
clarifying great moment, and, uhm- that's why I think this whole project
is so terrific, because there's been a lot of other issues and we- a- a
lot of people may disagree about some of that, but then there at that
time it was an extraordinary, uhm- extraordinary event.

Q: Well, that's very helpful. Let me do this before we disband. I want
to check, because we jointly \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ a ton of
questions. Well, there are some questions here that I think we'll save
and ask of other people because we don't have them people look at your
photos and really kind of key off of them --

**Peter Pettus:** Do you have -- what- what- what have they given you,
some reasonable facsimiles?

Q: Well, yeah, just --

**Peter Pettus:** Enough- enough- enough to make- enough to look at,
right.

Q: Yeah. I mean, this is the family I was speaking of --

**Peter Pettus:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. But am I- am I coming across with
the points that you want me to make? I mean, these are -- kind of the
way I feel about it.

Q: Yeah, I mean, I'd only -- some of the good old boys standing by the
roadside or maybe just ordinary people who were hospitable to you?

**Peter Pettus:** Uhm- not so much. There was a- there were the, uhm-
shall I rewind and explain this?

Q: Yes.

**Peter Pettus:** Uhm- there was - I did have a feeling that, uhm- the
white southerner was trapped in a situation not entirely of his making,
and that I realized just by being around them and looking at their faces
as they were observing what was happening to them that they weren't all
radically evil, that there were some very decent people there -
overtaken by events, it's true; obliged to change - absolutely true; but
not- not evil, not bad people per se, and so, I resisted the temptation
to simply categorize every, uhm- every southerner along the line of
march as a- as a red-neck cracker, uhm- who was the enemy. It wasn't
that way to me. Uhm- I mean, I was, uhm- they were on one side and I was
on the other. They- they- they were not interested in- in, uhm- a
northerner such as me coming down there, but I sensed a level of
humanity that I think was correct, and I think some of the- some of the
photographs show that, that these were real people puzzled and
overwhelmed by events that had been in place for hundreds of years and
with which they were going to have to deal, and the country itself is
gonna have to deal with. And they- and they're hopefully doing so.

Q: So, the final questions, the Voting Rights Act was kind of like the
end of all of this, the outcome of all of this. Did it strike you as
such, once the rest of the Spring-long marches were over, and you get
back home - and I think it was July that the Voting Rights Act went
through. Did that bring a sense of closure to the whole experience for
you?

**Peter Pettus:** Well, to some extent, it- it- it brought a- the Voting
Rikes- Rights Act -- the Voting Right- the Voting Rights Act, uhm- did
seem to culminate it. Uhm- LBJ, uhm- this is the great moment of his
Presidency, otherwise difficult, but this is the one great thing that he
managed to do, and it seemed to seal, it seemed to set in unalterable
concrete the- the results of these various marches and- and-- and
protests. The point was made, and it was- it was driven home and it was
acted upon at the highest level, which gave me the sense that there's no
turning back, that this was the defining moment, and that's what I felt
when I was there, uhm- during the march, and this was the culmination
that this was the way the country was going to- going to develop, and
this is what it was going to be, and it was, uhm- it was, it was
forever, and I think that's what makes it such a- uhm- really pivotal,
key moment in the nation's history, and I felt that then, and I
definitely feel that now, as the, uhm- as time has gone by. It was the
moment when the- when the country decided to move forward and realized
it could not ignore this any longer, and I think it's a great country to
do that.

Q: Cut -- that's good!

\<crew talk\>

**Peter Pettus:** Well, I hope I've given you enough of what you want.

Q: You have.

\#### End of CD1 \####