**MINUTES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY**

**OFFICE OF POLICY**

**OFFICE OF SECURITY POLICY**

**OFFICE OF HEALTH, SAFETY AND SECURITY**

**ARMORERS POLICY PANEL ACTIVITIES AND MEETING**

**ORLANDO, FLORIDA**

**JANUARY 14 -- 18, 2009**

**INTRODUCTION**

The Department of Energy (DOE) Office of Policy Armorers Policy Panel
(APP) meeting was conducted in Orlando, FL, January 18, 2009. The
meeting was chaired by Al Nettleingham, Office of Policy (HS-71), APP
Chairperson. Mark Brown, APP

Co-Chairperson, Wackenhut Services, Inc. (WSI), Office of Secure
Transportation, Fort Chaffee, Arkansas, was unable to attend.

**EXECUTIVE SUMMARY**

**Synopsis of Available Training:** Recertifications on weapons
included: M240 a 7.62mm belt-fed, gas operated machine gun and the M249
Squad Automatic Weapon a 5.56mm belt-fed, gas operated machine gun. Both
weapons are manufactured by Fabrique Nationale de Herstal. The training
was provided at reduced cost at the Hampton Inn and Suites, Orlando, FL,
January 14, 2009.

**Annual Shooting Hunting and Outdoor Trade (SHOT) Show:** APP members
attended the SHOT Show and met with various firearms-related vendors to
discuss issues pertaining to DOE firearms programs. Several sections of
exhibitors were devoted exclusively to law enforcement/military
equipment. Attendance at the SHOT Show was available to the armorers
during the period of January 15-17, 2009.

**Armorers Policy Panel Meeting:** The meeting was conducted January 18,
2009, at the Hampton Inn and Suites conference room.

> **Status of Site Armorer Programs:** A representative from each site
> provided the current status of the site's armorer program.
>
> **Discussions on Training and Vendor Contacts:** The armorers had a
> round table discussion regarding highlights of the training received
> and the new technology/ products examined, as well as the value of
> face-to-face discussions at the trade show.
>
> **Briefing on Office of Security Policy/DOE Headquarters Activities:**
>
> Mr. Nettleingham provided the APP membership with an overview of
> activity at DOE Headquarters that included a discussion on the
> reorganization currently underway within the Office of Health, Safety
> and Security (HSS). He also addressed the November 2008 publication of
> the Contractor Protective Force manual. He stated for the first time a
> separate Federal protective force directive has been drafted and is
> now in the RevCom process.
>
> **Review of Armorer Requirements in DOE M 470.4-3A, Contractor
> Protective Force:** A review and discussion was held on armorer
> requirements in the manual so that identified changes can be
> incorporated the next time the manual is updated.
>
> **Review of the DOE Firearms Modification List (FML):** A page-by-page
> discussion was held on the FML so that any changes can be incorporated
> into the next published revision of the FML.
>
> **Election of New Officers:** Frank Murray was elected the new
> Co-Chairperson and
>
> George Dodson was elected as the new Secretary.
>
> **Next APP Meeting Location:** The next meeting of the APP is to be
> conducted in Las Vegas, Nevada, in January 2010 in conjunction with
> recertification training and the annual SHOT Show.
>
> **Actions:**

-   HS-71 will work with the National Training Center (NTC) and
    DOE-Idaho to approve appropriate courses of fire for both the
    Remotely Operated Weapon System (ROWS) and the M134D Dillon
    mini-gun.

-   HS-71 will contact NTC management to support the importance of
    having a functioning web-based system to facilitate reallocation of
    excess weapons and equipment.

-   HS-71 will work with the Office of Worker Safety and Health Policy
    to ensure protective force requirements are supported in the DOE
    Explosives Safety Manual.

**Schedule of Activities and Meeting Agenda:**

Tuesday, January 13 Travel to Orlando, Florida

Wednesday, January 14 M240 and M249 Recertification Courses at Hampton
Inn

Thursday through Saturday,

January 15 - 17 SHOT Show at Orange County Convention Center

Sunday, January 18 APP meeting at the Hampton Inn Conference Room

Monday, January 19 Travel Home

> Meeting Agenda Items:
>
> 1\. Review and Update of Membership List
>
> 2\. Status of Site Armorer Programs
>
> 3\. Briefing on Headquarters Activity
>
> 4\. Review of Armorer Requirements in DOE M 470.4-3A
>
> 5\. Firearms Modification List including AK-47 ESS Modifications
>
> 6\. Election of New Officers
>
> 7\. Discussion on Highlights from the SHOT Show
>
> 8\. Next Meeting and Adjournment
>
> 9\. Appendix

**ARMORERS POLICY PANEL**

Al Nettleingham opened the meeting and welcomed the attendees.
Attendance was taken and introductions were made. Mr. Nettleingham
provided instruction on emergency exits and administrative activities to
the attendees (please see the appendix for the list of attendees).

Status of site armorer programs

Mr. Nettleingham requested that attendees provide a brief update
regarding activity at their respective sites.

**Nevada Test Site (NTS)** -- Mike Doyle indicated that NTS is working
on updating their Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System (MILES)
weapons and equipment. He notified the panel that the NTS needs a .50
caliber weapon to convert to MILES. They are also making Heckler & Koch
(H&K) 69 conversions as part of the update process. NTS is using AirSoft
systems inside their facilities. NTS is working to resolve training
issues associated with fielding ROWS and Advanced Concept Armored
Vehicles. The issues are associated with the electronics not the weapons
themselves. They still have M-60 machine guns, Sig Sauer P226s, H&K MP-5
submachine guns, M 203 grenade launchers, and Benelli shotguns available
for transfer. Marshal Skinner, Office of Program Requirements, Associate
Administrator for Defense Nuclear Security (NA-72), indicated that they
would do their best to find interested parties in the greater homeland
security arena who can use the weapons so they would not be destroyed.

**Idaho National Laboratory (INL)** -- Jim Ward indicated that INL is in
the process of deploying the M134D Dillon, 7.62mm mini-gun. They are
waiting on DOE to approve their site-specific qualification course.
HS-71 will work with the NTC and DOE-Idaho to approve appropriate
courses of fire for both the ROWS and the M134D Dillon mini-gun. Mr.
Ward reported that everything else necessary to field the systems
including vehicles and mounts are ready. INL has modified its
qualification courses to include steel knock down targets. Not only does
this provide feedback to the gunner, it is easier to score than
attempting to count rounds on target. Mr. Ward related a significant
concern if OSI Systems, Inc., goes out of business. If so, INL will have
to borrow MILES equipment in order to conduct Engagement Simulation
Systems (ESS) training. INL expects to have funding in 2012 to replace
their MILES equipment.

Mr. Ward reported they will have staff members supporting the Senate
Appropriations Committee on site in February. Randy Putt, NTC/Chenega
Global, offered that the NTC had already provided the committee all
their training documentation and all NTC related meetings had been with
the Federal staff. Joe Cohen, DOE/Savannah River, indicated the
committee staff members were being reasonable, but the goal of the
review was not obvious nor was there an expectation of the site
receiving a final report. The staff members did express interest in the
age of protective force personnel. They also asked numerous questions,
which could be associated with federalization of the protective force.

**Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR)** -- Jack George indicated SPR has a
new training manager, Larry Barela. The SPR program appears to be stable
with the exception of new managers being brought on board. Mr. George
mentioned that auditors from DOE Headquarters have been on site. He also
indicated that no new weaponry is being planned for the SPR. Mr. George
related he is now having almost as much trouble getting parts from
Fabrique Nationale as they have in the past from Beretta.

Mr. George appreciated information provided by Mike Doyle that Larson is
a good source for magazines.

**Pantex** -- Jeff Gardner related Pantex now has new division,
protective force, and training managers in place. Mr. Gardner asked the
panel for recommendations on procedures for accounting for armor
piercing ammunition. Panel members suggested he contact Mark Brown. Mr.
Gardner indicated that Pantex now has four armorers, which is helpful
given the added weapons systems and their new responsibility as part of
waste stream monitoring. Additionally, Pantex is considering having the
armorers issue firearms to the protective force.

**Naval Reactors, Idaho** -- Jim Bills reported they are now Bechtel
Marine Propulsion and have merged operations under the new company.

**Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory** -- Frank Murray said they are still
Lockheed Martin but expect to change over to Bechtel Marine Propulsion.

**Savannah River Site (SRS)** -- Al Dichiara indicated SRS has met their
2005 Design Basis Threat requirements. Mr. Dichiara reported they now
have a new grenade range planned for M67 fragmentation and M406 high
explosive grenades. In addition to the grenades, SRS is in the process
of fielding the M134D Dillon. Mr. Dichiara expressed frustration with
bureaucracy associated with transfer of some equipment to the NTC.
Apparently, there are several layers of redundant approvals and
notifications. He indicated it has been extremely difficult to break the
paperwork logjam. Joe Cohen stated the paperwork challenge is largely
within the DOE. He has been part of the discussion between NTC and SRS
on how to resolve the problem. Because of the sensitivity of the
equipment, the Federal staff involved is requiring a formal process. Mr.
Dichiara indicated their communications group now has the responsibility
to maintain the SRS ESS transmitters. He also reported that SRS now has
some dedicated opposition force weapons, e.g., RPG 7s and some AirSoft
203s. As part of their process they use dummy rounds for weapon
manipulation.

**UNWIN (HS-61 Support)** -- Todd Bruning provided background on UNWIN.
They support all of the evaluation testing conducted by the Office of
Security Evaluations (HS-61). This task formerly was performed by
Honeywell. Mr. Bruning indicated that all that was needed to initiate
help would be a phone call, then UNWIN can go directly to Mac Thacker,
HS-61, for approval. While the UNWIN representatives were in Orlando,
Florida, they visited SAAB. Mr. Bruning reported the challenges they
have seen with ESS equipment are not so much gun related as with the
electronics. He also indicated their MILES 2000 replacement part costs
are skyrocketing. They are procuring 100 sets for about \$250,000.

**USEC Paducah** -- Mr. Gary Roberts indicated that due to fiscal
constraints they are looking for the most economical equipment they can
purchase. Mr. Roberts thanked Mike Doyle for the transfer of some
equipment no longer needed by the NTS.

**USEC Portsmouth** -- Dave Davis stated it was his first time at both
the Armorers Policy Panel and the trade show. He found it to be
extremely useful to make viable contacts in the DOE community and gain
useful vendor information. Mr. Nettleingham concurred that interaction
of panel members, ongoing armorer's training, and the utility of the
trade show contacts are significant contributors to the continuity of
this panel.

Mr. Davis proposed a centralized location to post and/or request excess
weapons equipment. As a first time attendee to the Armorers Policy
Panel, Mr. Davis was unaware the NTC has previously taken on the task to
post a web-based system to accomplish this goal. Brad Claridge,
NTC/Chenega Global, was unable to provide an estimate as to when the
necessary work could be accomplished. HS-71 will contact NTC management
to support the importance of having a functioning web-based system to
facilitate reallocation of excess weapons and equipment.

**Honeywell Loaner Program** -- Kurt Veerkamp stated they are in the
process of rebuilding weapons. His biggest challenge is getting parts
for the belt-fed machine guns. Jim Ward was able to provide the Fabrique
Nationale point of contact,

Ms. Shoiha Eido. Mr. Ward indicated she was very responsive once it has
been established that the work is being done for the DOE.

**Hanford** -- Steve Roberts reported that hiring of new protective
force personnel has slowed down at Hanford with the next scheduled big
hire in 2010. Hanford is focusing on night qualification activities. Mr.
Roberts indicated that when their Barrett .50 caliber rifles wear out
they will convert them to MILES weapons. He stated that Hanford is now
conducting MILES enhanced exercises at least four times a year.

**Oak Ridge** -- Stan Justice reported Oak Ridge has now received all of
the new weapons they have purchased. They are mounting M134D Dillons on
LENCO Bearcats. They have fielded M203 40mm grenade launchers. He
indicated the new Highly Enriched Uranium Manufacturing Facility (HEUMF)
is scheduled to open in May 2009. Once the facility is open they may
have to make some modifications for gun ports. If personnel are
interested in tours of HEUMF it must happen before May. Mr. Justice
indicated they did okay on the Office of Independent Oversight
inspection. He indicated there will be 30+ new protective force members
hired in March 2009. They have recently hired a new armorer at Y-12 due
to adding new systems. The new armorer is now certified. Mr. Justice
indicated they now have ROWS operational at

Y-12. Their biggest challenge is maintaining the electronics due to
wires being pinched during operation of the clam shells. The weapons
themselves are not causing problems. Mr. Justice added Oak Ridge
National Laboratory will also soon have its own ROWS installed.

Briefing on Headquarters activity

**National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA)** -- Marshal Skinner,
NA-72, provided a brief update on NNSA. Mr. Thomas D'Agostino is the
Administrator and

Mr. Bradley Peterson is the Associate Administrator for Defense Nuclear
Security.

Mr. Skinner indicated that a memorandum will be issued soon stating NNSA
protective forces will not be federalized (the memorandum was signed on
January 13, 2009).

Mr. Skinner briefed that NNSA is looking to standardize many protective
force elements. Mr. Skinner offered that right now it is just him trying
to get his arms around the challenges, identify them, and ways to
overcome them so the goal can be accomplished. The plan is to gather
subject matter experts to identify viable candidates for
standardization. The NNSA will then attempt to negotiate firm fixed
prices to get the best equipment at the best cost. NNSA will attempt to
bring the whole DOE family together so this will not be just an NNSA
initiative. Discussion followed on what prevented the last
standardization attempt from being successful. Primarily, there was no
centralized procurement or funding mechanism. Mr. Skinner recognized
that it will not happen overnight and that it can happen only if
adequate funding is available. The plan is to have Kansas City be in
charge of central procurement so spending can be easily tracked. The
goal will be to have vendors compete for selection. The panel consensus
was that ESS is a prime candidate for standardization with DOE and NNSA
management standing behind the concept on a DOE-wide basis. It was
recognized that there has to be strong and unwavering support from
senior management in order to achieve this goal.

During the subsequent discussion, a great deal of frustration was
expressed regarding current procurement challenges. It was pointed out
that the lead time required to procure ammunition is a primary reason
for larger site inventories. Because procurement has a completely
different set of regulatory drivers, there needs to be very carefully
crafted procurement actions. The panel recommended that Mr. Skinner have
knowledgeable procurement specialists involved early in his discussions.
It was also noted (with no direct citation provided) the Code of Federal
Regulations (C.F.R.) will not allow the DOE/NNSA to trade-in old weapons
to the manufacturers for credit on new ones.

It was identified that site protective force organizations have received
a great deal of resistance when there have been attempts to dispose of
excess weapons outside of the Federal system when no Federal agencies
have expressed interest in obtaining them. This resistance has occurred
despite the Deputy Secretary's memorandum which clearly approves of such
disposition if no Federal interest in the excess weapons exists.

Mr. Skinner outlined the 911 Commission results, which stated we need to
do more to protect our infrastructure. He offered that transfer to
Government Services Administration is a better alternative than just
destroying the weapons if we cannot transfer weapons directly to Local
Law Enforcement Agencies. Mr. Skinner stated until these issues were
resolved, NNSA sites which are planning to destroy excess weapons,
should contact NA-72 before they do. Then NA-72 can have the opportunity
to assist with the transfer of them.

**NTC** -- Brad Claridge, Chenega Global, provided a briefing on the
recent and sudden change of NTC contractors. Echota had been the
previous contactor. An all-hands meeting was called to announce the
termination of the contract. All employees were told they would be
offered a job with the new contractor. The changeover is being made very
quickly. Chenega Global is the largest 8-A company in the world.

Mr. Claridge said all indications are positive. While addressing armorer
issues,

Mr. Claridge indicated that armorer re-certification requirements have
been extended from two to three years. He told the panel the next
certification received will be valid for three years. Mr. Claridge
provided copies of the armorer's maintenance guide. He stated the
detailed disassembly sections have been removed to avoid assisting
unauthorized personnel from performing disassemblies. Mike Doyle, NTS,
and

Todd Bruning, UNWIN, agreed to provide Brad with subject matter expert
reviews in a timely fashion. Additionally, Mr. Claridge said he would
send out Portable Document Format files to the panel and asked for any
comments within 30 days of their receipt of the file. NTC has scheduled
factory classes in the March 2009 as follows:

Date Course Cost

March 12 Glock \$150

March 16-18 M203 \$195

March 16-18 M249 \$225

March 16-18 M240 \$225

March 19-20 Sig Sauer \$395

March 23-April 3 LFR-102 Armorer's Cert N/A

In closing, Mr. Claridge verified that HS-71 had received a signed copy
of the AK-47 ESS modification.

**DOE Office of Policy** -- Al Nettleingham, HS-71, provided information
on a variety of DOE Headquarters related topics. Mr. Nettleingham stated
we are fortunate we have cross pollination between NA and HSS personnel
who are experienced at the site level. Mr. Nettleingham also confirmed
that Headquarters interaction had improved markedly over the past
several years. He stated that we have actually made progress because our
managements support the philosophy that we only exist to support the
field.

Mr. Nettleingham told the panel DOE was about to approve a new directive
on directives (the approval did occur after the conclusion of the
panel). He briefed the new procedure will no longer accommodate manuals.
He also indicated the names of supplemental documents would be changing.

Mr. Nettleingham told the panel that HS-71 published the new Contractor
Protective

Force (CPF) manual in November 2008. Its revision was accomplished
through a

zero-based policy review. HSS was not the lead by design to ensure
objectivity. The group that worked on it separated the contractor from
the Federal requirements. Everything in the CPF pertains only to
contractors. The directive was written in the building block approach.
Security Officers provide the basis for Security Police Officer I
requirements and Security Police Officer I provides the basis for
Security Police Officer II requirements, etc. The portions of the CPF
that pertain to armorers are generally collocated. Mr. Nettleingham also
reported pulling out some portions: the firearms modification list,
range design criteria, and weapons qualification courses which are now
resident on the HSS website. They are out of the RevCom system. This
gives greater flexibility to update the documents and keep them current.
Mr. Nettleingham noted that prior to taking these supplementary
documents out of the directive process, concurrence was obtained from
the Office of the General Counsel. Mr. Nettleingham reported several
firearms qualification courses were developed in December at the NTC
joint protective force meeting. The next meeting on the qualification
courses is scheduled for the April timeframe. The process for review,
updating, and developing new courses of fire is included in Chapter II
of *Protective Force Firearms Qualification Courses*, dated October 1,
2008. The document also provides detailed roles and responsibilities.
The qualification courses can be found on the HSS website at
http://www.hss.energy.gov/SecPolicy/pfs/FAQual_Courses.pdf. Once the
courses are validated, staffed to program offices, then and only then,
will HSS approve them as authorized by 10 C.F.R. Part 1046.

Mr. Nettleingham reported that one of the biggest achievements was the
establishment of a Federal Protective Force (FPF) manual. Mr.
Nettleingham explained that most armed Federal protective force members
are assigned to either the DOE Headquarters Special Operations Program
or the Office of Secure Transportation. The FPF manual also provides
requirements for both armed and unarmed Federal Officers who comprise
the remainder of the Federal protective force. The FPF manual is now in
RevCom with comments due by February 10, 2009. As the manual pertains to
Federal operations and personnel, Mr. Nettleingham indicated that
comments will only receive formal consideration if they are made by
Federal organizations.

Mr. Nettleingham alerted the panel that HSS was in the process of
reorganization (pending final approval) with Mr. Larry Wilcher named as
the Acting Director of

HS-70. The plan is to merge HS-70 with Mr. Wilcher's current office,
HS-80, since Ms. Barbara Stone is now working Congressional liaison. Mr.
Nettleingham also mentioned that the Office of Inspector General (OIG)
is now conducting a follow-up review on protective force training. HS-71
conveyed to the OIG that variations in training requirements are
required to be approved locally in the applicable training plan. The OIG
may be making site visits to look at specific training variations.

Mr. Nettleingham asked if there were any questions from the panel.
Subsequent discussion indicated that an apparent disconnect exists
between DOE M 440.1-1A, *DOE Explosives Safety Manual*, and the CPF
Manual requirements. DOE M 440.1-1A requirements do not support
protective force requirements. HS-71 will work with the Office of Worker
Safety and Health Policy to ensure protective force requirements are
supported in the DOE Explosives Safety Manual. There were also reported
indications that policy modifications by memorandum to DOE M 440.1-1A at
the site level are being made.

Concern was raised about the requirement for annual change-out of
ammunition.

Mr. Nettleingham suggested using the deviation process in the interim
until policy could be revised but pointed out that armor piercing and
40mm grenade ammunition are exempt due to cost. Also suggested was the
establishment of a rotation scheme. The last ammunition related comment
was that if sites have old ammunition meeting military specifications,
the military will take it back for disposal. If it only meets commercial
specifications, the sites are stuck with it. However, it was noted that
INL can dispose of ammunition through their explosives destruction
activities.

REVIEW OF ARMORER REQUIREMENTS IN M 470.4-3A

A review of armorer requirements in the CPF manual was conducted by the
panel. Only two requests for modifications were made. The first was to
modify section, II.9.a.(4)(f) to include the concept of duty use. The
second was to have section X-5,3.a. read, "These ammunition supply
points (ASP) storage facilities must be located within a designated
security area." The HS-71 representatives agreed to include these
changes in the next revision of the directive.

FIREARMS MODIFICATION LIST INCLUDING AK-47 ESS MODIFICATION

The current FML was reviewed by the panel. No changes to the existing
text were identified. In addition, Brad Claridge led a discussion
regarding ESS modifications for the Kalashnikov AK-47 7.62x39mm rifle
and the Kalashnikov RPK 7.62x39mm light machine gun. The two
modifications accepted by the panel were to add live round inhibitor and
a live magazine excluder as approved modifications for these ESS weapons
to the FML.

ELECTION OF NEW OFFICERS

Frank Murray volunteered to be considered as the Co-Chairperson.

Rob Sim was nominated for consideration as the Co-Chairperson by Brad
Claridge.

Brad Claridge was nominated for consideration as the Co-Chairperson by
Rob Sim.

George Dodson was nominated for Secretary by Brad Claridge.

Stan Justice moved that the nomination process close. Jim Ward provided
the second. The motion to close the nominations was carried unanimously.

Frank Murray was elected as the new Co-Chairperson for the next 2 years.

George Dodson was elected as the new Secretary for the next 2 years.

Discussion on highlights from the SHOT Show

Brad Claridge mentioned that Wilcox is making a grenade launcher sight,
which has self-contained range finding. Discussion on this technology
indicated that Insight Technology, Inc., also has a similar range finder
and other trajectory technology.

Pat Poyer was identified as the Insight Technology point of contact.
Trijicon was also mentioned as a potential source for this technology.

Jim Ward led a brief discussion on weapons magazines. INL now must
maintain a 100% lead free environment in their shoothouse so they use
separate, dedicated magazines for that activity. Mr. Ward said that
Lancer has a translucent magazine. It is similar to the Magpul design
but with steel floor plates. He said the floor plates can be made color
specific as a visual aide to avoid comingling equipment.

Marshal Skinner related that he spent most of his time engaged in
discussion and research on rifles. Mr. Skinner liked the H&K 416 which
is a 5.56mm rifle similar to the M4. Jim Ward said INL has the 416s,
likes them, and desires to procure more of them. They have shot over
20,000 rounds without a single malfunction. Discussion included that H&K
intends to have the 417 version (in 7.62mm) available next year. Those
familiar with the 416 recommended shooting the weapon if the opportunity
becomes available. Discussion also addressed some reported problems with

"stove-piping" or the brass not being cleanly ejected from the chamber.
Apparently this happens when hot reloaded rounds are fired (by those not
in the DOE community) in weapons which have fired in excess of 25K
rounds. It was pointed out that H&K recommends change out of the
extractor at 10K rounds.

Kurt Veerkamp told the group that Adams Arms has a "Retrofit Gas Piston
System for Tactical AR-15 Carbines." Reportedly Smith & Wesson also has
a retrofit solution for their weapons.

Dave Davis reported on a clip-on light which can be attached to an
officer's pocket. The light can be set to flash when increased
visibility of the officer is desired to enhance officer safety. Mr.
Davis also mentioned the OTIS cable system for cleaning rifle barrels.
He asked the group if it was better than using a fixed rod. Based on
group discussion, it appears to be a matter of individual preference.

Al Dichiara mentioned that molybdenum disulfide lubricant works well on
the M134D Dillon mini-gun. He also mentioned SBR a manufacturer of both
standard and frangible ammunition all the way up to and including .50
caliber rounds.

Joe Cohen reported that Simunitions now has a frangible 7.62mm round
that will not exceed 600 meters. While the round could not be used for
qualification it provides an excellent option for training and practice.

Jack George said that Nikon has a special program. If a buyer buys five
scopes a year, the scopes can be purchased directly from Nikon.

Mike Doyle identified U.S. Tactical Supply as a source for sniper
supplies. They have a paint that is visible only when viewed with night
vision devices.

Stan Justice saw a gardenia-based non-toxic insect repellent. Also 5.11
tactical is now offering a fast recharge flashlight (90 seconds), which
offers up to 8 hours of service per charge.

Frank Murray provided information on Aimpoint scopes, Kiesler Defense
for FN

Mk-46 mounts with Adam Brooks identified as the Special Programs
Manager, and Trijicon ACOG Scopes with William Whitlow identified as the
Customer Service Manager.

Next Meeting AND ADJOURNMENT

At the close of the meeting, Joe Cohen asked that consideration be given
to having a combined protective force, safety, firearms, and armorers
meeting in conjunction with the next trade show. Mr. Cohen mentioned
that the firearms safety committee used to have over 40 members to
include representatives from the Army, Marines, and Surgeon General's
Office.

The next APP meeting will be held January 2010, in Las Vegas, Nevada, in
conjunction with recertification training and the SHOT Show. Details
will be provided in the next meeting announcement.

Mr. Nettleingham thanked the attendees for their ongoing interest and
support. He then asked for any closing comments. Use of smoke during
force-on-force activities was briefly discussed. It was noted that smoke
had been used during exercises at both Lawrence Livermore National
Laboratory and Y-12. Mr. Nettleingham pointed out that current policy
allows the use of smoke with an approved safety plan.

The use of gas powered (carbon dioxide) ESS was briefly discussed. One
disadvantage of its use is lack of realism due to lack of report or
firing signature when the weapons are discharged. Thus other
participants are deprived of being able to hear an engagement is
occurring. Another disadvantage is associated with unintended discharges
of the weapons while participants move tactically due to the sensitivity
of the firing mechanisms.

With no other comments or subjects raised, Mr. Nettleingham adjourned
the meeting.

Appendix

2009 Armorer's Policy Panel

**MEETING ATTENDEES**

  --------------- ----------------- --------------- ---------------------------------------------------------
  Name            Organization      Phone           E-Mail

  Bills, Jim      Bettis            208-533-5233    <billsjl@bettis.gov>

  Bruning, Todd   UNWIN             505-888-0055    <toddbruning@onemillrun.com>

  Claridge, Brad  NTC/Chenega       505-845-5170    <bclaridge@ntc.doe.gov>
                  Global            (610)           

  Cohen, Joe      DOE/SR            803-952-9280    <joseph-p.cohen@srs.gov>

  Combs, Mike     Hanford           509-376-7092    [michael_s_combs@rl.gov](mailto:Michael_s_combs@rl.gov)

  Davidson, John  WSI/OR            865-576-1872    <davidson@wsi-or.gov>

  Davis, Dave     USEC/Ports        740-897-2948    <davism2@ports.usec.com>

  Dichiara, Al    SRS/WSI           803-952-5675    <a.dichiara@srs.gov>

  Dietz, David    HS-71 (PSI)       301-903-1159    <david.dietz@hq.doe.gov>

  Dodson, George  Honeywell FM&T/NM 505-844-3509    <gdodson@kcp.com>

  Doyle, Mike     WSI/NTS           702-295-5862    <doyle@nv.doe.gov>

  Gardner, Jeff   Pantex            806-477-3933    <jgardner@pantex.con>

  George, Jack    CHSS/SPR          504-734-4242    <jack.george@spr.gov>

  Justice, Stan   WSI/OR            865-574-0902    <sj2@y12.doe.gov>

  Murray, Frank   KAPL (Knolls)     518-395-6022    <murrayj@kapl.gov>

  Nettleingham,   HS-71             301-903-2536    <al.nettleingham@hq.doe.gov>
  Al                                                

  Pointer,        WSI/OR            865-276-9234    <xqr@y12.doe.gov>
  Richard                                           

  Predika,        UNWIN             505-888-0077    <mikepredika@onemillrun.com>
  Michael                                           

  Putt, Randy     NTC/Chenega       505-845-5170    <rputt@ntc.doe.gov>
                  Global            (600)           

  Roberts, Gary   USEC/PGDP         270-441-5650    <robertsgr@pgdp.usec.com>

  Roberts, Steve  Hanford           509-376-7248    <steven_t_roberts@rl.gov>

  Sim, Rob        UNWIN             No Number       <robsim@onemillrun.com>
                                    Provided        

  Skinner,        NA-72             202-586-5736    <marshal.skinner@nnsa.doe.gov>
  Marshal                                           

  Veerkamp, Kurt  Honeywell FM&T/NM 505-844-9333    <kveerkamp@kcp.com>

  Ward, James     BEA/INL           208-526-2419    <james.ward@inl.gov>

  Winkler, David  USEC/PGDP         270-441-6240    <winklerdj@pgdp.usec.com>
  --------------- ----------------- --------------- ---------------------------------------------------------