**The Manager's Tool Kit**

**for Environmental Compliance & Pollution Prevention**

**Module 4 of 6**

**A Telecast Originating from the BLM National Training Center in
Phoenix, Arizona**

**March 7, 2002**

This transcript is from the closed-captioning file produced during the
telecast.

It may contain errors and omissions in transcription.

Announcer: The Bureau of Land Management Satellite Network and the USDA
Forest Service present live from the BLM National Training Center in
Phoenix, Arizona Manager\'s Tool Kit Manager\'s Tool Kit for
Environmental Compliance and Pollution Prevention and pollution
prevention. And now the host of your program, Tony Garrett.

T. Garrett: Hello and welcome to Module 4 of our six‑part interagency
course on Environmental Compliance and Pollution Prevention. In today\'s
telecast we\'ll be discussing safety, OSHA DOT and FIFRA. Here is our
objective for today. Upon completion you\'ll be able to state your
responsibilities to provide for the safety of your employees. And
here\'s today\'s schedule. In our first segment we will be covering
employee safety, OSHA, HazCom plans, material safety data sheets,
employee training, HazWopER and incident response. We will try to get
through all of that in about an hour and 15 minutes. Then we\'ll take a
15‑minute break. After the break, we\'ll look at how one agency handles
incident responses, we\'ll examine Department of Transportation
regulations and we\'ll talk about FIFRA. And back by popular demand, our
game show, \"HazMat Challenge.\" Once again, it\'s east meets west as we
test your knowledge about the material we\'ll be covering. In today\'s
game, every participant will be awarded this fabulous prize once again.
It\'s the official \"HazMat Challenge\" T‑shirt. So stay tuned for \"The
HazMat Challenge\" later in the broadcast. Also back by popular demand
is our lead instructor Martin Thrasher, an attorney with extensive
experience in hazardous materials issues. Welcome back, Martin.

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Tony. And experience in EMUS.

T. Garrett: Also with us is Frank Mills, national coordinator for
environmental enforcement at the USDA Forest Service.

F. Mills: It\'s good to be here again.

T. Garrett: Thanks for coming back down to Phoenix. And from the Bureau
of Land Management, we welcome Bill Wiley, Haz‑Mat Coordinator and
Safety Officer in in the California Desert. Thanks for joining us.

B. Wiley: Thank you. Looking forward to talking about MSDSs and initial
emergency response.

T. Garrett: In addition to the BLM and Forest Service employees with us,
we welcome employees from the U.S. Fish

&

Wildlife Service, the National Park Service, the Bureau of Reclamation
and anyone else who may be watching. We want you to know your
participation is very important to the success of these satellite
training sessions. And, again, to help you communicate in real time with
our instructors, we\'re going to use the push‑to‑talk technology so you
can interact with us directly. We encourage you to use those
push‑to‑talk microphones when you have a question or something to share
with our instructors and our other viewers. Whenever you do
push‑to‑talk, we ask that you begin by stating your name and location.
We\'ll acknowledge your call and then you can proceed with your question
or comment. That helps us avoid confusion when more than one person is
calling in. And to help manage all this, we\'ll let you know when it\'s
ok to push‑to‑talk by putting a green light up in the right corner of
your screen and it will look something like that. During periods when we
prefer that you hold your questions for moment, we\'ll put up a red
light in the corner like that one. We\'ll try to keep the green light on
as much as possible because we do want to get input from you and we want
to answer all your questions. If you didn\'t get the phone number and
numeric pass code for the push‑to‑talk telephone bridge for your agency,
please call our operator at this time at this number. Get the
information you need to get on that bridge. And if you don\'t have a
push‑to‑talk system at your viewing site, that\'s ok. We still want to
hear from you. We encourage you to participate by telephone or by fax.
You can call us toll‑free at\.... Sites in the greater Phoenix area
should call\.... And you can send us a fax at any time you want at this
number\.... To test that everything is working, we\'re going to go back
to the Yellowstone national park, one of our favorite sites that\'s been
with us from module 1. , really. We\'ve had one of the participants
there, mark Hemingway, who has been checking with us each of the
broadcasts to give us a weather and traffic report. We found that so
interesting because mark commutes 70 miles each way by snowmobile just
to get to his downlink site. Let\'s check in with Yellowstone and see if
Mark is with us again today for Module 4. Mark, are you with us?

Caller: He hasn\'t arrived yet.

T. Garrett: Thanks for reporting on that. We heard earlier there has
been some weather up that way and Mark actually has to leave when it\'s
still dark, and travel by snowmobile 70 miles, sometimes Dodging
Buffaloes and all kinds of other obstacles to get to his training but we
thought he was such an inspiration for all of us that we have been
getting in touch with Mark at the beginning of each of our broadcasts.
But the important point is that all of you have to get through something
to get where you did this morning and to make time to take the training
that\'s important to your carrying out your duties and for doing that we
want to say we appreciate your being with us and we want to make it
worth your while. If you haven\'t registered for this course and
received the instructional materials for the Manager\'s Tool Kit, we
encourage you to do that. These websites contain a study guide for all
six modules. And some other useful resources. . Now to kick things off
we\'re going to turn to Martin Thrasher and a discussion on employee
safety. Martin?

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Tony. Appreciate being here again and I really
appreciate all of you that checked in this morning on the push‑to‑talk
and telephoning in. It\'s really important to Bill and Frank and I that
we have as interactive a process here as we can. That\'s what we\'re
here for, to talk with you, respond to questions and duty things that
you need. So any time you want to interrupt, make sure that you use
push‑to‑talk and get ahold of us. Now, as Tony mentioned, today\'s
module we\'re going to be concentrating on ‑‑

Caller: This is pat National Park Service South Carolina.

T. Garrett: Pat, thanks for checking in with us.

M. Thrasher: Did you have a question, Pat? You\'re just checking in?

Caller: Just running a bit late this morning and need to check in.

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Pat, appreciate that. As Tony mentioned, today we
are going to be covering the safety aspects of OSHA and we\'re going to
be talking about hazardous materials shipping and pesticides under
FIFRA. Now, for study purposes, we break these components of hazardous
materials management apart from each other, but I want to make sure that
as we go through awful these modules that we keep in mind they\'re
interrelated with each other. Now, at the start of module 1 I gave you a
little schematic that kind of illustrates that, if I can show it on this
camera. I talked about the concept of hazardous materials, because often
times people say, \"well, is it a HazMat or a hazardous material or
not?\" That\'s, of course, an important thing to find out about. But,
actually, it doesn\'t give us much in terms of dealing with the
management aspects of hazardous materials. We need to get into it
further to find out exactly what kind of hazardous material it is and
then what kind of regulatory structure surrounds that material. During
the first module, we talked about hazardous substances under CERCLA and
then we also talked about hazardous wastes. Both of these commodities
are hazardous materials, but they have very specific regulatory programs
that are mandated for them. Then we moved on to what are called
extremely hazardous substances under the ‑‑ under EPCRA, and these again
have another regulatory structure. We also during this time discussed
nonhazardous substances, particularly petroleum that many of the land
management agencies deal with. And although these are not regulated
hazardous substances under CERCLA, they certainly have significant
regulations surrounding them. We also mentioned two other types of
commodities under EPCRA, and those are hazardous chemicals and toxic
chemicals. At the same time, we discussed regulated substances, and
regulated substances are those that are under the underground storage
tank rules. So we have regulated substances under underground storage
tanks, hazardous chemicals and toxic chemicals under EPCRA. Now, today
we\'re going to be covering three other areas. First of all, we\'re
going to be talking about pesticides ‑‑ if I can spell it right here ‑‑
pesticides under FIFRA, and FIFRA we\'re going to go into a bit. It
stands for the Federal insecticide, fungicide rodenticide act. Then we
are going to be talking about hazardous materials. Now, I\'ve already
introduced you to the concept that hazardous materials is a generic term
that we use to refer to all of the regulated materials. But in this
module today, we\'re going to be talking about very specific hazardous
materials under the hazardous materials transportation act, and there\'s
‑‑ they\'re specifically defined and specifically listed. Lastly, we\'re
going to be talking about safety under OSHA, or the occupational safety
and health act, specifically we\'re going to be talking about health
standards and some other specific rules. Now, OSHA doesn\'t just use one
type of reference to commodities. They use several references. For
instance, OSHA refers to health standards under subpart C. They refer to
hazardous materials under subpart H, compressed gas under subpart M.
They also use the terms toxic and hazardous substances under subpart Z.
And then they use the term chemicals, which relate to the requirement
for material safety data sheets. Then they use other terminology. The
reason I want to point all this out is that these terms have very
specific meanings, but not only do they mean specific things, but they
have very specific regulatory structures that surround them, and as
managers, you\'re required to comply with all of the rules that are
appropriate for that particular commodity. And any commodity may be
subject to several different sets of the rules. So, with that
introduction, what I\'d like to do before we turn to OSHA is have a
little fun with the knowledge assessment concerning safety. Did any of
you guys have anything to say with regard to the overview at this time?

F. Mills: I think one of the things that we need to consider is just
exactly how OSHA came to be a part of the Federal agency facilities, and
that\'s probably one of the things that most people aren\'t aware of, is
that it came under an Executive Order, and, Martin, do you have anything
on that Executive Order?

M. Thrasher: I was going to mention in that a minute under safety, but I
could do that right now. There is an Executive Order that was ‑‑ let me
go ahead and show that on this camera here. It was adopted by the
president in 1980. It\'s Executive Order 12196, and it\'s entitled
\"occupational safety and health programs.\" This Executive Order makes
it mandatory that all Federal agencies comply with OSHA requirements
unless they can come one some suitable alternative, which is fairly
rare.

F. Mills: Great.

M. Thrasher: All right. I think with that what I would like to do is
turn to the first knowledge assessment. If you\'ve downloaded your
material, you\'ll have this in there, but if not, I\'ll show the
questions on the camera here. So you can have a few minutes to right
them down. Let me go through the questions right now and then we\'ll
give you a couple minutes to answer them. The first question is: each
Federal facility must have a blank hazard communication plan. Second
question, true or false: the hazard communication plan must be provided
to the local emergency response authority. And third is a multiple
choice: employee access to MSDSs or material safety data sheets, must be
provided during normal business hours, at all times employees are
present, electronically, or on an as‑needed basis? So take a few minutes
and answer those and we\'ll go back over them.

M. Thrasher: Ok, let\'s see how you did with this knowledge assessment.
Looking at number 1, each Federal facility must have a, hopefully you
got this right, written hazard communication plan. It has to be in
writing. Let\'s look at number 2 here. True or false? The hazard
communication plan must be provided to local emergency response
authorities? Who knows the answer to that one? Do you have to provide
your hazard communication plan to your local emergency response
authority? Who would know that?

Caller: This is Christian from the Forest Service in he will co‑.

M. Thrasher: What do you think?

Caller: It\'s got to be true.

M. Thrasher: Why do you think so? Sounds to make a lot of sense,
doesn\'t it?

Caller: Yes, and ‑‑ yeah, it makes sense.

M. Thrasher: Yeah. All righty. Well, that\'s a real good reason for
that. Actually the answer is \"false.\" And I appreciate ‑‑ I think what
you\'re doing is thinking back to the EPCRA requirements where you need
to participate in community planning, but there is no requirement to
send your hazard communication plan under OSHA to the local responders.
Let\'s look at question 3 here. See who can answer this one. Employee
access to material safety data sheets must be provided, and we\'re
looking for all the true answers. Who has an answer to that one? Take a
chance. When do we have to provide MSDSs to our employees? Does anyone
know? Ok. ‑‑

Caller: Pat from petrified forest. I would say at all times employees
are present.

M. Thrasher: You bet you. You got it. The requirement is that MSDSs be
provided at all times employees are present. So that may mean during
business hours, after business hours, during the weekend. We\'re going
to be going into that a little bit later. Ok. Very good. Let\'s take a
closer look at OSHA now. OSHA, the occupational safety and health act,
was passed by Congress in 1970. Now, a Federal agencies were
specifically excluded from coverage under OSHA except that section 19 of
that act designates the head of each Federal agency as responsible for
the safety and healthy working conditions of all employees. Now, I
mentioned that there\'s an Executive Order that was adopted in 1980, and
that number is 12196, relating to occupational safety and health
programs, and that provides that Federal agencies generally have to
comply with all of the OSHA requirements unless they can justify
alternatives, which is very difficult to do. Now, one of the essential
parts of OSHA rules is what\'s called the hazard communication standard,
or more commonly called the worker right to know rule. Its overall
purpose is to inform employees of chemical hazards in the workplace and
how to avoid or minimize exposure to those particular hazards. Now, the
hazard communication standard or worker right to know rule has 10 basic
elements and let me just go through those elements quickly. First of
all, everyone has to have a written hazard communication plan that\'s
available to employees, and as we went through the exercise, that means
at all times. The standard also requires that you identify and evaluate
chemical hazards in the workplace, and that applies to all sorts of
chemicals. It includes your pesticides, your petroleum products, all of
the things you\'re using in your ware yards or maintenance yards, and it
includes office supplies such as white‑out, toner for your machines, all
sorts of things you might not ordinarily think about. The third
requirement of the standard is that everyone has to prepare a hazardous
chemicals inventory. You\'ll probably recall two weeks ago when we were
going through EPCRA that we discussed the importance of having a
chemical inventory. Well, this is another use for that inventory. The
next requirement of the standard is to develop an MSDS file. In other
words, a hard copy file for keeping hard copies of your material safety
data sheets. Now, at this point you need to be thinking about developing
a management system in order to obtain and keep those MSDSs available to
your employees. The next requirement of the standard is to provide
access to the MSDS for every employee. This means that the MSDSs cannot
be locked up in somebody\'s office so that they\'re not available at all
times. And I think Frank and Bill are going to talk about access to
MSDSs a little bit later. The next requirement of the standard is to
ensure that incoming products have proper labels. Again, this begs a
management system whereby the people that are receiving products on site
make sure they\'re properly labeled. Now, if for some reason the labels
come off or the material is transferred to another container, the next
requirement of the standard is that you must develop a system within the
facility for labeling chemicals that are transferred to other
containers, or if for some reason the label on the container becomes
obscured or washed off, you need to relabel it. The next, and a very
important requirement of the hazard communication standard, is to
develop an employee training program. We\'re going to be talking about
training here in a little more detail later. The next step is to
identify, then, and train employees who are potentially exposed to
hazardous chemicals in the workplace. Now, this training is required at
the initial assignment of every employee and on an as‑needed basis as
new hazards are introduced into the workplace. Now, BLM offers a number
of training programs here at the National Training Center and off‑site
relating to training. I might also show here on this camera a reference
to U.S. Forest Service training that is available under HazCom as well.
The other sources that are often considered are like through community
colleges or through fire departments. But all of the people who are
involved with HazCom, including supervisors and employees, must have
this HazCom training. Now, the final requirement for the hazardous
communication standard is to evaluate the program and improve it on a
continual basis to make sure that it\'s meeting all the requirements.
Now, that\'s a lot in a very short time as to what the hazard
communications standard requires, but I want to boil it down to you to
three basic things. First of all, you have to have a written plan. It\'s
amazing to me how many times I go into a facility and they say that
they\'re in compliance with OSHA and I request to see their written
HazCom plan and they don\'t have one. Well, you\'re not in compliance
with OSHA if you don\'t have a written hazard communication plan. The
next basic element is to have these MSDSs available for employees.
Again, it\'s surprising how many times you go into facilities and you
say, do you have your MSDSs? They say yes. \"where are they?\" And
they\'re in some supervisor\'s locked room. That is not available to
employees. The last kind of component of this that I think is really
important to remember is employee training. This stuff doesn\'t happen
accidentally. You have to train employees and supervisors in the HazCom
rule. Each and every manager and supervisor is personally responsible
for making sure the HazCom standards are met. If something catastrophic
happens in your facility, an employee is injured, or someone is killed,
you\'re going to be held personally liable and responsible for
compliance with these rules. I\'ll never forget an event that happened
several years ago in my career where one of our powerplants and I was
representing at that time a public agency that owned this powerplant, so
surprisingly enough, we were not mandatorily under the OSHA
requirements, but we had a contractor in our facility doing some work,
and one of the contract employees fell and was killed. As a result, OSHA
came in to investigate that death and they were looking into why the
person fell, whether there were the proper safety procedures and so
forth and they began asking about the hazard communication plan for the
facility. Well, the facility was exempt from OSHA just as you are, but
we had a private contractor, like you use at your facilities, that was
subject to the rules. And so the OSHA inspector not only by himself but
then he brought in an EPA investigator and, of course, we are subject to
EPA rules, and they inquired into the possible exposure of this employee
to chemical hazards in the workplace, and they specifically zeroed in on
the supervisors who were supervising that work and the managers at that
facility and for the contractor. So it\'s very important to keep in mind
that these are not just rules that are nice to talk about, but there is
specific personal liability that attaches to them. It\'s very important.
If we have any questions about the hazard communications standard, make
sure to use your push‑to‑talk there and we\'ll just stop for a moment
and respond to that. Unless we get any questions, let me move on and
talk about the written hazard communication plan. There are actually
five components of that, and I\'ll review those real quickly. . First of
all, you have to say in the plan what the hazard communication plan
requires, and you have to tell your employees where to find the written
hazard communication plan, and the material safety data sheets. You also
have to have in writing information about the labels and what the
material safety data sheets mean. And you have to have in writing how to
use that information. In addition, your written plan must describe other
information and the procedures and equipment relating to safety. . So if
someone asks for your written plan, they are going to be looking for all
these elements in the plan. With that, let\'s talk about material safety
data sheets for a moment, because that\'s kind of one of the most
important hallmarks of the safety program for communicating hazards in
the workplace. One of the questions I often get asked is, can we provide
MSDSs electronically rather than in hard copy? And my answer is and
I\'ll let the other instructors talk about their experience, is that
it\'s critical to have the hard copies of MSDSs available in the
workplace. This is what OSHA is going to be looking for, and quite
frankly that\'s where you can get ready access on an immediate basis to
MSDSs. Now, if you want to back that up with electronic versions of
MSDSs, that\'s fine, but it should be as a backup or supplement to your
hard copy. Now, the MSDSs do have to be available at all times, and the
rules don\'t specify where the MSDSs have to be. You have to decide that
based on the facility. Here\'s a visual of what appears to be a really
good location for MSDS. It\'s readily marked. It\'s probably in an
employee break room or assembly room of some kind, and everything is
clearly marked and available for immediate access. Now, here\'s another
example of a place where people have tried to make the MSDS available.
They got it all marked, but unfortunately, the MSDSs have been stacked
into a pile, and if there is an emergency where they have to be
accessed, it\'s not going to be readily available to the employees. So
you need to watch this sort of thing. Let me mention before I turn to
Frank and Bill about comments about the MSDSs and talk just a moment
about their contents. There isn\'t any set format for the contents of
MSDSs. Some of them may be one page long. They may be 10 pages long and
that they may come in different orders. But they all contain the same
types of material. They\'re actually eight different things have to be
in MSDSs. Maybe we can turn to this camera here and take a look at this
facsimile of an MSDS, and you can see that it\'s ordered here in colored
sections as to what has to be there. The first section is that it has to
identify the chemicals themselves. And then the next section, it has to
identify the hazardous ingredients in the chemicals. The next section is
for the physical data. And the next section describes the fire and
explosion hazard data. On the next page here is the health hazard data,
and then the reactivity data, if it\'s a reactive chemical of some type,
and then the next section is spill or leak procedures, in other words,
things you ought to do if you have a release of the material. The next
to the last one here is specialized protection information that the
employees need to know about. Then lastly, any special precautions
relating to the MSDSs. So there\'s a lot of information, a lot of good
information in the MSDSs and your employees need to be trained on that
and they need to have access to them and then you need to know that
you\'re responsible for making sure they\'re trained and that they have
access. So that\'s the quick overview of material safety data sheets,
and Tony, what I would like to do is turn it over to you, then.

T. Garrett: Thank you, Martin. We\'re going to pause for just a moment
while we address a technical difficulty we\'ve discovered in the audio
system that is on the BLM telephone bridge. What we do know is that in
the last three minutes or four minutes one of the BLM offices has logged
on, and we\'ve discovered an echo in the system as a result of that
office logging on. Whichever BLM office logged on in the last three or
four minutes, we\'re going to ask you to log off now and to contact the
AT products trouble line. . So the BLM office that logged on in the last
four minutes or so, your system is incorrectly wired this morning and we
need you to call that phone number and get that technical difficulty
corrected as soon as you can. So we\'ll ask you to log off MOU.
Everybody else stay with us, but the one office from BLM that logged on
in the last four or five minutes, please log off now and get that audio
problem corrected for us. Thank you very much. Sorry to interrupt,
Martin. Let\'s go back to you. .

M. Thrasher: That\'s been a quick overview of the hazard communications
standard and the training requirements and some comments about material
safety data sheets. What I would like to do now is turn the program over
to Frank to talk about some specific MSDS issues.

F. Mills: Those of you who are managers out there, you have ‑‑

Caller: Holly, petrified forest.

T. Garrett: Go ahead.

Caller: Sorry to interrupt you there. I have a question on MSDS sheets.
What is our obligation as far as a nonspeaking English employees? Do we
need to find material that has in their language? What is our obligation
there?

F. Mills: Do you want me to answer that, Martin?

M. Thrasher: Why don\'t you do it.

F. Mills: The OSHA requirements do not state that we have to provide
multi‑lingual MSDSs. It only states that we have to provide those in
English, and it is actually written in the law that way. So most
employers who have bilingual or multi‑lingual employees try and use
different services to get those MSDSs and make a separate folder that is
clearly marked in their language. But it\'s not a requirement under the
law.

M. Thrasher: I might add to that, I understand that the University of
Vermont has multi‑lingual MSDSs available. I don\'t know in what
languages, but probably Spanish, I\'m not sure about others. And another
comment about that. You know, as we manage these hazardous materials
issues, we certainly want to identify what the law specifically
requires, but then we need to look at civil liability as well. Even if
the law doesn\'t specifically require, say, Spanish language MSDSs, it
may be a good management technique to try to access those or provide
them, or at least maybe provide in the struction in Spanish.

F. Mills: Right. As I was beginning to say, you as a manager, this is a
really important part of your responsibilities under the requirements,
and many managers pass this responsibility of MSDSs off to another
subordinate employee. But you\'ve heard us mention a number times that
there are regulations that specifically require you to have MSDSs
available and not just under OSHA, but also under the EPCRA regulations.
So as a supervisor, you need to take a personal interest in making sure
that these MSDSs are gotten ahold of. One way that they\'re used is if
an employee goes to a hospital, the regulation states that the hospital
can request a copy of the MSDS to help treat the employee. So they\'re
going to call you on the phone and say, we want a copy faxed to us or
brought to the hospital immediately, and you have to comply with that.
Now, one of the things a lot of us have is we purchase a lot of
materials from department of defense through DRMO and you have things
that have NSN, national stock numbers, on them, you have things that are
available that we\'ve gotten with green color, army green color written
on it. Well, the military has a specific set of CDs that you can
actually get a copy of at this phone number. . If you\'ll call that
phone number, they will make available a series of CD disks that have
every single MSDS that the military or the department of defense uses
available for you to copyright off the CD. Now, this is very important
because you can search by NSN, national stock number, you can search by
chemical name and they have an archive file that have materials, for
instance, from World War II in there. . Some of these things were named
different things in the older time periods. So this is a very important
resource for a manager, is get a copy of this disk, especially if you
look around your facility and you notice a lot of military green‑colored
cans and materials, this is something you should have available. Bill,
could you carry and tell us some things about BLM\'s policy on MSDSs?

B. Wiley: Well, our policy obviously is not just to comply but to make
sure that we provide the information at all times to people. There are.
That becomes a challenge and we will be talking about some of those
things that we do, some practical hints that have been developed over
the years for doing that. I\'d like Martin to help us out with a little
overhead projection of some of those points and issues. The first one
that has been suggested and used successfully is to give each MSDS a
unique number in your office, specify tyke your office and file them in
that order in a ring binder. As Martin has suggested, often things get
very disorganized and hard to find. In conjunction with that, indexing
those numbers by specific product name or by chemical types and synonyms
and in many cases listing additionally those chemicals which are found
on the labels of the products in question. There is a bit of a loophole
in the MSDS regulations which allow the chemical manufacturer to only
list on MSDSs chemicals which are in a presence of 1% or greater. 1%
being about 10,000 parts per million. You can see if a chemical is in
there that is as little as 5 parts per million and may be regulated as
toxic or otherwise, you could hide a lot of chemicals that really are
important within that 10,000 parts per million. So you can usually pick
those off of the label. They list them in the label in much smaller
quantities than 1%. It can also be indexed in terms of user groups for
the chemical. Maintenance, recreation, administrative, chemicals that
are used in these could be listed in a separate index. The chemical MSDS
numbers can be listed for those groups and you can easily pull out the
MSDSs that relate to a given department or section. The uses of the
product are also important. Indexing them in terms of solvents or in
terms of degreasers or drain cleaners. If you\'re alphabetically listing
your MSDS and you have DRANO drain cleaner and a product number, Mr.
Plummer, looking under D or M may be more difficult than looking under
drain cleaners and cross‑indexing all the drain cleaners no matter what
the product or manufacturer name might be. Another suggestion, we
pointed out earlier and perhaps Martin can put up the earlier slide of
the MSDS that was color code code, this particular MSDS is a fairly
straightforward and easily identified MSDS. Those sections which are
required are pretty easily seen on this particular version, but many of
the MSDSs we get are computer generated and the format is not specified
by OSHA. So many people develop different font types or different
organizations within these sections. If each of the fire section titles,
for instance, were to be highlighted in red, and each of the first aid
sections in all of your MSDSs were to be highlighted in blue and each of
the emergency response or spill release sections were highlighted in
orange, that might make it much easier in an emergency situation to
identify those particular sections. And after all, that\'s the point of
the MSDSs, to be able to find information very quickly in an emergency
situation. Next suggestion we have is to make copies of the MSDSs. Often
it\'s difficult enough to get employees, especially with credit card
purchases, to find an MSDS and bring it to the person who is keeping
track of all of them, making sure that they\'re all filed properly. If
we make a copy at that time, put the original or the master copy into a
sealed ‑‑ into a locked or secured area, making sure that a copy of that
is available to employees at all times if they\'re in the working place.
That fulfills our requirement but also gives us a backup in that master
version. So our hazard communications station or our right to know
station has a copy of everything and a duplicate set of that in master
form is in a secured place. It\'s also ‑‑ this also allows us to keep
notebooks or ring binders in vehicles that are in the field. The actual
field working place is the workplace and we are required not just to
have a notebook back at the office, but wherever these chemicals are
being used to have copies with us. So a maintenance crew, for instance,
might have copies of all of the MSDSs that they typically use in a ring
binder in that vehicle as well. There\'s another advantage, if we move
onto the next one. In keeping the master MSDSs in a secure place for
quick duplication. Obviously replacing copies is made much simpler, but
the availability of master copies assures OSHA or inspector that might
be visiting your office that you really do have copies of all of them
available. This is also true of plans that you might have. Probably the
most commonly violated OSHA regulation is hazard communication or hazard
standard. If we have all of those plans that are required, the HazCom
plan and all of the subordinate plans, some of which we will talk about
later, then those can be copied immediately and put on file as well as
the MSDSs and usually you can avoid a violation by having them readily
available for duplication. The MSDSs as kept on a website, in other
words, if you claim that you are using websites to provide your MSDSs,
then you would have to ‑‑ you would have to document all of the training
that you\'ve done, and they quite likely would ask people on your staff
how easy it is to access, do they know how to access and that becomes a
challenge in and of itself. The OSHA websites are an excellent source,
as we\'ve talked about a moment ago, and some of the websites are listed
here. The disk information is coming up as well. The OSHA website has
links ‑‑ the OSHA website itself has links to other websites and you can
get on search engines and find other places. The HMIS CD that we talked
about earlier is an excellent source of back‑up information for this,
but really you need to have those hard copies on file. The BLM and Fish
& Wildlife training centers have their own websites, and there are many
training courses available that will help your HazMat specialists or
your safety specialists or program leads to get a better understanding
of the various ways that these can be used and kept on file. The DOI
training, safety training CD, is also available, and that does a very
good job of condensing a lot of these standards and ideas. Check with
your local safety and HazMat program leads. They\'re excellent sources
of additional information and make sure they get the training they need.
Now we will go to Martin who will moderate a short question and answer
review. .

M. Thrasher: If you have any questions about material safety data
sheets, hazard communication standard, please again push to talk there,
fax questions in or call in and we would be glad to take them. Just kind
of filling in here, one of the problems I ran into with a facility that
wanted to go to an electronic versions of MSDSs was they went ahead and
did that and it was very well set up. The problem was that the employees
all didn\'t have access to the computers, and then we couldn\'t document
that they had been trained on how to use the computers to get it. So you
just added to the problems.

F. Mills: You know, Martin, one of the things during the audits we see
over and over again is we will find a chemical and we will ask the
supervisor, where do you keep the MSDS? We\'ll hear from the employees
and the supervisor, well, we never got an MSDS. And all these resources
that we\'ve given the supervisors today have places they can actually go
and download an actual copy of an MSDS for almost any product that\'s
made. And these are readily available. So OSHA doesn\'t take lightly
when you say I couldn\'t get an MSDS, because there\'s a number of
places that have them.

B. Wiley: It\'s quite common that people don\'t ask for the MSDSs. Most
places where credit card purchases are being made, Wal‑Mart, target, any
number of locations, will have MSDSs, but they will be under the
counter‑and if you don\'t specifically ask for them, they\'re not
required to give them for home purchases, only for business purchases.
So simply sending the person that made the purchase back to the location
they bought it and asking them for a copy often will produce that MSDS.

M. Thrasher: Do we have any questions? Use your push‑to‑talk. We will be
glad to take a moment here and give you time to call in or push in.

Caller: This is Terry in burns.

M. Thrasher: Yes, Terry.

Caller: Do most offices handle MSDS work loads under the safety program
instead of the HazMat program?

M. Thrasher: I don\'t know.

B. Wiley: I\'m not sure there\'s a most. It\'s not uncommon for
administration to be involved as well. Sometimes the people who are
doing the purchasing, making sure that those MSDSs come in with every
purchase, is an important part of it as well. So it could be assigned to
either someone in the administrative purchasing section, in the safety
end, although typically they are a more the consulting the helpful
people that help you to find the locations for these things. Or it could
be the HazMat person. Sometimes those are all the same.

M. Thrasher: Ok. Frank, did you have anything to add?

F. Mills: No, I think Bill answered that pretty well.

M. Thrasher: Let\'s move on and talk about training for a moment, but if
you want to go back and talk about material safety data sheets or any of
these other topics, we\'ll be glad to do that. I\'ve already mentioned
the importance of employee training, and I want to just briefly mention
some of the elements of employee training that are required by the
hazard communication standard. First the standard requires that
employees be trained on methods and observations that they can use to
detect the presence or release of hazardous chemicals. Secondly, they
have to be instructed about the physical and health hazards of chemicals
to which they might be exposed and I want to just digress for a moment
and remind you that your employees are going to facilities, industrial
facilities in some cases, that they don\'t normally work at, and they
need to be instructed about the material safety data sheets and chemical
hazards where they\'re going to go to work at other facilities as well
as their own. The next requirement is that employees have to be told
about protective measures that they can take to protect themselves from
exposure. And then they need to be told about the details of the hazard
communication standard, including information about labels, material
safety data sheets and how to use that information. Again, I have
already described to you a few minutes ago about different sources for
the training. The BLM has the Training Center and other courses. Forest
Service has their own courses. And then, of course, you\'ve got
community resources that are invaluable. Many times they\'re free to
access the fire department or local community college or other sources
in the community to get hazard communication training. So those are some
of the sources. I think what I\'d like to do just very briefly to close
out the OSHA HazCom type part of this program is to mention container
labels. Now, container labels are very important because they must
contain information about the popular or chemical name, and they have to
have the hazard warning on the container, and they have to have the name
and address of the manufacturer/distributor. Those things can become
very important if you have an employee exposure and you need some
immediate information that\'s not available on your MSDS or your medical
personnel need more information to be able to call that manufacturer and
distributor and get more information. Now, here we see a container that
is not properly marked. You can see that it\'s got releases of materials
off the side of the container, and nowhere does have it a label that
says what\'s in this container. That doesn\'t comply with OSHA rules,
and it may even violate hazardous waste rules or some other rules,
depending on what\'s in the container. We don\'t have an idea. Now, this
next visual here shows a properly labeled container that has information
about the contents of it and it has the appropriate hazard warnings on
it. So I think with that, that completes our discussion about the hazard
communication part of safety and again invite questions or comments
about that.

Caller: This is Peter at Grand Canyon.

M. Thrasher: Yes, Peter.

Caller: Are there specific amounts of hours that this training is
supposed to take? And is it supposed to be redone on a specific
timetable?

M. Thrasher: There are no specific number of hours for HazCom training.
As far as when you need to do it, you have to do it at the initial
assignment of the employee. So, in other words, when you get a new
employee onboard that\'s going to be exposed to chemicals, they need to
have that training. And then at any time that you get new hazards
introduced into the workplace, then you must train on the new hazards.
Did that answer your question, Peter?

Caller: Yes, it did.

M. Thrasher: Thank you. Any other questions? Ok. Let\'s turn to the next
aspect that we want to talk about relating to safety, and that\'s
what\'s called HazWopER. HazWopER stands for hazardous waste operations
and emergency response and you find those rules under 29 CFR 1910.120.
Now, keep in mind as we go through this that HazWopER has two different
sections, hazardous waste operations and then the emergency response.
HazWopER is required by both the EPA, because Congress required them to
develop identical regulations, so even though you may not have mandatory
enforcement with fines and possible imprisonment under OSHA, Federal
agencies are certainly subject to fines and enforcement by the EPA.
These regulations cover all employees involved with the hazardous waste
operations and emergency response. They\'ve been in effect for about 10
or 11 years now. Now, let me illustrate here on this camera something
that hopefully will avoid some confusion about the HazWopER rules. And
I\'ll abbreviate this. HazWopER. As I mentioned, there are two specific
parts of HazWopER, hazardous waste operations and then emergency
response. Well, under hazardous waste operations, there are two
different types of training requirements. One comes under what\'s called
a paragraph E and another one comes under paragraph P and Frank\'s going
to go over these in a moment. Now, for the emergency response, we have
requirements under what\'s called paragraph Q, and I\'m going to cover
those after Frank covers the first two parts. So, Frank, do you want to
take and it describe the E and the P requirements?

F. Mills: Yes. Now, as a supervisor, you need to look at what your
employee is doing, and one of the things that the HazWopER rule has
caused some confusion is this definition between the hazardous waste
operations portion and the emergency response. Many of you have heard
the term \"i have the 40‑hour HazWopER class.\" Well, the 40‑hour
HazWopER class is a product of CERCLA under the HAZWOP portion of that
rule and you can see in the slide, here we have some abandoned drums,
and this is the type of activity an employee would need to be trained
for 40 hours under the paragraph E rule of HazWopER. This is called the
general site worker rule, and that\'s where most people get the term
40‑hours of training and that is under paragraph E. Now, the second
paragraph that\'s very important to you as a ‑‑ an employer and a
supervisor is paragraph P, or papa. Paragraph P specifically mandates
specific training when there is a permitted RCRA site and some of our
agencies actually have sites that are permitted by RCRA statutes, not
CERCLA removals or recovery actions. And these trainings are
specifically mandated under paragraph P of the HazWopER standard.
Another area that\'s very important as a manager are phase I land
assessments. If you send an employee out to do an assessment, they may
have to have certain training under HazWopER, which is a 24‑hour portion
of the rule under the paragraph E section. So you need to look at what
you are employee is going to do in the field to determine which section
of the training they have to have under paragraph E or paragraph P. And,
Martin, I think now we need to look at the paragraph Q, or the emergency
response portion.

M. Thrasher: Ok, thanks, Frank. I want to just briefly mention the five
different levels of training under the Q requirements relating to
emergency response. And these are completely different than the ones
that Frank just described. As I mentioned, there are five different
levels of training for emergency responders. The first level is called
the first responder awareness level and that is a person who witnesses
or discovers a release of a hazardous material and who are trained to
notify the proper authorities. . Quite frankly, this could be most
anyone in a Federal agency, from a Secretary to a field worker. The
training requirements are that that person receive sufficient training
or proven experience in specific competencies that are laid out and then
as you notice here, that it requires an annual refresher. All of this
training needs to be documented. The next level of training is called
the first responder operations level. This is a person who responds to
releases of hazardous substances in a defensive manner without trying to
stop the release. Their training requirement is a little more extensive.
They have to have the first level awareness level training, and then
they have to have eight hours of initial or proven experience in some
more specific competencies, and, again, a ‑‑ an annual refresher is
required. The third level of training is called HazMat technician level.
This is a person that responds aggressively, in other words,
affirmatively, to stop the release of a hazardous substance. Again, more
training is required. 24 hours at the operations level and then proven
expertise in certain specific competencies. Again I note for you that
there is an annual refresher that\'s required. The fourth level is
HazMat specialist level. This is a person who responds with and in
support of the third level, the HazMat technicians. But they have
specific knowledge about various hazardous substances. For the employer
I used to have, we used to have HazMat specialists responding to
chlorine leaks because it\'s a very specialized type of response.
That\'s the sort of thing we\'re talking about here. These people have
to have 24 hours of technician level training and then proven experience
as well and, again, the annual refresher. Finally, we have the fifth
level and that\'s on the scene incident commander level. This is a
person who assumes control of the incident beyond the first responder.
Their training requires 24 hours at the operations level, additional
competencies and, again, your annual refresher. So that\'s a quick
rundown of the five different levels of emergency responders under
HazWopER. I think with that what I would like to do is turn to bill and
ask you about some real‑life experiences with the emergency response
training.

B. Wiley: Thank you, Martin. We\'re going to look at a few examples from
the field perspective of how these levels of training come into play.
The first responder typically would be somebody such as you see in the
background in street clothes or or a nonoperationally trained person who
simply responds to the incident ‑‑ doesn\'t respond to the incident but
finds the incident, notifies and complies with what we call the three or
four Rs, the first being simply to recognize, and that much of the
awareness training is recognition. Those red flags or orange flags in
the case of HazMat that shout \"watch out\" kind of like the fire
program. This allows them to perform the second of the Rs, to react, and
in many cases that reaction is retreat, to get out of the potential for
contamination, either by in ha ration or by ingestion, by touching it,
by getting it on their hands or feet or clothes, putting it in their
vehicle, taking it home to the office or to their family and beyond. The
ranger that you see in the foreground is typically of what you might
find as an operations level trained person. Permanent fire people,
parole rangers, hazardous material specialists and collateral
specialists or coordinators would all be trained at the operational
level. They would be able to do defensive actions, more than the
awareness trained or the all‑employee awareness trained person. The
person that you see here might simply, as a defensive action, be able to
turn off a valve, turn off electrical circuitry closer to the incident,
do some diking, put down some absorbent material and keeping the
incident from getting bigger than it is. Training for these two levels
can be gotten through local community colleges but many of the agencies
have found ‑‑ and fire departments, but many of the agencies have found
that they can tailor these first responder trainings to their own land
management issues and often train their own people to be instructors,
and it provides an easy way for the annual refreshers as well. Here at
the National Training Center, the ‑‑ 7 is a train the trainer class
which combines first responder training with chemical management or
training for people who are actually using hazardous materials in the
workplace. At the specialist and technician level, this is more advanced
training and can be gotten from places like the California specialized
training institute or many of the states\' training programs. These
people have much more expertise, can keep the others who are responding
to the incidents perhaps even law enforcement people k help them to get
close in and to look for the evidence that they need without getting
into the middle of the actual site, the contaminated area. It\'s really
important that hazardous materials people and fire people and law
enforcement people all work together as a team for these kinds of
issues. The next levels beyond first responder awareness operations, the
technician and specialist level s incident command. Now, there\'s always
some confusion about incident commander such as an on scene coordinator,
the can\'t O on scene coordinators. This refers to people who are
trained to participate as a part of the incident command system, and
actually 40 CFR part 300, the National Contingency Plan and ‑‑ an EPA
regulations, requires us to respond to HazMat emergency response under
an incident command system. Now, these people really need to be trained
specifically. Specific incident commander training and subordinate
positions in the ICS system such as hazardous materials, assistant
Safety Officer for hazardous materials and specialist technician levels,
these positions are being developed in both the Federal system and in
private system or nonfederal system, fire for red card type
certification programs. There are some trainings available at this
point. It\'s important that we be able to represent our agencies as a
unified command or as an agency representative with a sound knowledge of
how the incident command for HazMat works. As a part of the Bureau of
land management\'s continuity of operations plan, we\'re required to set
up a type 3 ICS team in each office. This would allow us to do the
initial response to these until a more trained team can be established.
And as probably most of you, if not all of you know, ICS, can be shrun
took a small number of people or expanded, depending on the magnitude of
the situation. Now, what do we do when we reach a scene? You know, many
of us look at a railroad accident, and it\'s our worst nightmare and
think, this will never happen to us. But most of our areas really are
close by, if not have railroads run right through them. The area I work
out of has two transcontinental and one interstate rail line. We\'ve had
recently near Coos Bay Oregon, a major oil spill on the coast when a
tanker ran aground. People think of those incidents being in Alaska and
other remote places and don\'t worry about them. But every highway in
the nation, every rail line in the nation, carries every kind of
hazardous material you can imagine, and many of our jurisdictions
include these areas. And if you\'re in an exclusive jurisdiction where
you don\'t have state and county agencies readily available to take the
lead in these, then more training is needed and more coordination and
incident command systems need to be established. Now, first responder
obviously from way back in the distance could report this and stay
completely out of the way. Even an operations level person really
shouldn\'t be approaching this area and trying by themselves to do
anything about it. These kinds of major incidents require much higher
levels of training and expertise and the railroads and other agencies
have specialized teams that can come and assist you in these positions.
We\'d like to transition now into Frank. Later today we\'ll show you a
video which will explain a lot more about first responder training, but
right now Frank would like to share with you some of his agency\'s tips.

F. Mills: One of the things that the USDA has done for our employees,
and especially helpful for the supervisors in the field, is we\'ve
developed a CD‑based course for the first responder awareness level
training and each of you out there can get a copy of this CD just by
simply contacting your nearest USDA Safety Officer. What this CD allows
you to do is give it to an employee, for instance an employee who might
work in an office setting, have them sit down, run through the course on
their computer and then you can check them off as having the first
responder awareness training. I think this is one of the real tools that
we are as agencies trying to develop to get us into this business of
working with our employees, making sure they have the proper training,
but remember, you have a distinct liability here if your employees do
not have this specific training. It\'s very, very important that you as
a supervisor ensure that your employees have been trained to the proper
level. The other thing that we\'ve developed in our system is when an
inspector comes in, they\'re going to ask you, prove to me that you\'ve
actually trained this employee, and the question is, how do you do that?
Well, you either have to keep a copy of the training record in their
personnel file or, in our case, we\'ve developed a computerized system
known as TIPS, which is our training integrated personnel system and
every employee that receives this training, all they have to do is sit
down at a computer module, put the fact they took the training, their
supervisor initials through the computer that they agree with that and
we now have a permanent record that\'s available for an inspector. So
documentation of training is so very important for you as a supervisor,
especially when you\'re facing a liability lawsuit or something for not
having an employee properly trained in their responsibilities. Martin?

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Frank. I think what I would like to do is conclude
this part of the program on HazWopER with a little fun knowledge
assessment. If you\'ve downloaded your materials, you\'ve got this.
Other than that, we\'ll show them up on the camera here next to me. We
just have two questions to kind of review the material we\'ve just been
over. The first question is this: name the five levels of responders
under 29 CFR 1910.120 Q relating to the emergency response regulations.
These are the five levels for the emergency responders. You should have
those in your notes. Then the next question is fairly simple: how many
hours are required for training under 29 CFR 1910.120 paragraph E for
the general site workers at hazardous waste clean‑up sites? Just take a
moment to jot down your answers and I\'m going to show those questions
to you again on this camera.

M. Thrasher: Let\'s see how you did. Who can name the five different
levels of responders under the emergency response part of the HazWopER
rules? Go ahead. Can anyone name even one of them?

Caller: Dan, Forest Service.

M. Thrasher: Dan, go ahead.

Caller: Awareness level.

M. Thrasher: Absolutely right. That\'s the first one in order. Do you
want to take the rest of them, Dan?

Caller: Sure. Operations.

M. Thrasher: Operations level. Correct.

Caller: HazMat tech. HazMat specialist. And on‑scene commander.

M. Thrasher: And the on‑scene commander. Thank you. That\'s great.
Absolutely right. Let\'s turn to the second question here. How many
hours are required under the paragraph E relating to the general site
workers for hazardous waste clean‑up sites? Who had that one?

Caller: This is Gary.

M. Thrasher: Yeah, Gary, go ahead.

Caller: 40 hours?

M. Thrasher: Absolutely. Good answer. That completes our discussion of
the hazard communication standard and the HazWopER training. We\'re
going to come back and talk about a little bit more after the break. But
right now, Tony, I want to turn back to you.

T. Garrett: All right. Thank you, Martin. We are coming up on a break
shortly, but we have a minute or so set aside, or longer if we need it,
to answer any questions that you have on the material we\'ve covered in
part 1 of our broadcast today. So the green light is on. We\'ll invite
any of our viewers to get in touch with us by telephone, fax or by
push‑to‑talk. Go right ahead.

Caller: This is pat with the park service. Are there hours required for
remedial training after the initial HazWopER training?

M. Thrasher: I think she\'s asking about the annual refresher training.

T. Garrett: Is that right, Pat? Is that a question about annual
refresher training?

Caller: Yes, it is. And how many hours is that?

M. Thrasher: I\'m not aware of a specific number of hours. Are you?

F. Mills: Pat, the regulation states that when you do your awareness
training, you have to demonstrate the competencies under the emergency
response portion of HazWopER. So you could have a class that lasts two
hours or eight hours. The typical class is an eight‑hour refresher, and
that\'s because under the 40‑hour section of paragraph E, there is a
requirement that if you do go to a refresher class, you have to have
eight hours.

T. Garrett: Thank you, Pat.

Caller: Thank you.

T. Garrett: Thank you for checking in with us all the way from South
Carolina. Any other viewers have questions about the material we\'ve
covered thus far? All right, Fish

&

Wildlife Service, go ahead.

Caller: Yes, this is Kim. I have a question and I\'m not trying to take
you off of the subject that you\'re now covering, but it deals with
training. Recently the U.S. commission on civil rights had a hearing on
environmental justice. There have been nationwide complaints filed
against most of the executive agencies. Having said that, it had been
determined that most of the agencies failed to be in compliance with
environmental laws. Having said that, I would like to know whether or
not there is an inventory list that Federal agencies can use to
determine the effects of emissioned of pollutants, contaminants or any
toxic waste during compliance checks?

F. Mills: I can talk to that.

T. Garrett: Thank you, Kim. Frank, go ahead.

F. Mills: Yes, Kim, there actually is a place and it\'s ‑‑ when we
covered the FIFRA ‑‑ not FIFRA, but EPCRA requirements under our other
segment, that is where we list down the pollutants and discharges that
we as Federal agencies admit, and that\'s done under what we call a Form
R and that\'s available at each state environmental office headquarters
and also at EPA. So we as Federal agencies do submit that requirement
under our Form R submissions under the EPCRA requirements.

T. Garrett: Thank you, Kim, for checking in with us. And, Kim, we would
like to note in that Module 5, I believe, Martin, correct me if I\'m
wrong, but in Module 5 we will be looking at environmental justice. Any
other questions from our viewers about the material we have covered in
the first part of our broadcast today? Any other questions from our
viewers?

Caller: This is Gary on the salmon CHALICE National Forest.

T. Garrett: Thank you, Gary. Go ahead with your question.

Caller: Are there different degrees of PCB?

F. Mills: Can I ‑‑ I\'ll answer that. Yes, Gary, there are. It\'s not
degrees, but PCB has a technical term called AEROCHLOR. I can\'t spell
it but pronounce it. It does come in different grades of material and
there are about 10 of those grades of PCB known as AEROCHLOR. Generally
if you are talking with an industrial technician or a specialist, they
will ask you which grade of AEROCHLOR you mean when you say the term PCB
and that is an important issue, especially when we look at the parts per
million that we\'re regulated under. PCB regulation law is concerned
about how many parts per million of PCB or AEROCHLOR as they call it is
inside of the material. So that is listed in your 40 CFR hazardous waste
list under section 260, if you\'ll go into that list of hazardous waste,
you will see each of the AEROCHLORS written out under PCB in that list.

M. Thrasher: I\'m wondering if he\'s referring to the divisions between
0 and 50, 50 to 500 and over 500. There\'s another one that you may be
referring to here where you\'ve got things like oil and transformers. If
it has 500 parts per million or over of PCB, it\'s called PCB. If it\'s
got between 50 and 500 parts per million, it\'s called PCB contaminated.
And if it\'s got from 0 to 50, it\'s called non‑PCB, even though it\'s
got PCBs in it and the reason that distinction is important is there are
different rules associated with those different levels. I don\'t know if
that\'s what you\'re referring to or not.

Caller: Yes, that was. While working with fire rehab, we found some old
transformers that had the lids off that had oil in it, and this local
fireman said he thought it was PCB. So I took the name and called
General Electric and they were telling me to get ahold of the state and
EPA and I did, and they were talking about the different parts per
million.

M. Thrasher: Right. So just take care with that. If somebody says to you
that it\'s non‑PCB, that does not mean it doesn\'t have PCBs in it. It
could have up to 50 parts per million PCB in it.

F. Mills: And that should be a laboratory test, Martin.

M. Thrasher: Oh, yeah, the only way you can tell is to have a laboratory
test. You can\'t look at and it tell.

T. Garrett: All right. Gary from salmon CHALICE, Idaho, great question.
Thanks for chairing that experience with our panel. At this point now
we\'re going to take a 15‑minute break. When we come back, we\'ll look
at how one agency handles incident responses. We\'ll examine Department
of Transportation regulations. We\'ll talk about FIFRA. And we\'ll have
this week\'s episode of \"The HazMat Challenge.\" Lots more to come.
We\'ll see you 15 minutes from now!

T. Garrett: Welcome back to Module 4 of our Manager\'s Tool Kit series.
With us for the second half of today\'s course are Frank Mills from the
USDA Forest Service, Bill Wiley from BLM\'s California Desert and plead
instructor Martin Thrasher. Before we get started again we want to
mention some upcoming telecasts on the BLM Satellite Network. Next week
on March 14th we will present Module 5 of this series which will cover
the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act and
Spill Prevention Planning. Our final telecast in this series will air on
Thursday March 21st when we\'ll explore environmental management systems
and take a look at your agency\'s audit programs for safety, health and
environmental compliance. On April 3rd and 4th we\'ll be broadcasting a
two‑day interagency satellite course, Contracting Officer\'s refresher
training. So if you are a COR and you need to keep current with your
certificate, go to the website to register for that COR training. On May
2nd we\'ll be taking a look ahead at the 2002 fire season. That
interagency telecast will examine weather, fuels and moisture
predictions. The national fire plan. Fire rehab, fuels treatment and
safety. So please mark your calendars for those training events and we
hope you\'ll plan to join us. Now with those commercials out of the way,
let\'s return to Frank and a continuation of that discussion on
incidents response.

F. Mills: One of our sister land management agency, the U.S. Army corps
of engineer has prepared a very good tape which outlines the duties and
responsibilities of the first responder at the awareness level and we
would like to show you this tape so you can see what the firsthand
responsibilities levels are.

During situations like a hazardous materials release, good intentions
can often fly out the window. To alleviate much of the natural stress
and confusion associated with these types of extreme situations, your
organization has an emergency response plan in place and a list of
priorities to be followed. As an awareness level first responder,
you\'re responsible for recognition and accurate reporting, nothing
more. The way in which you gather information to report what you found
will help the response teams arrive with the right equipment. The first
item of business is to record any information that may be considered
important. Items to include on your checklist, should be the location of
the site, the weather, the suspected substance, the surrounding
population and the environment. The location and general description of
the site should be as precise as possible using easily recognized
landmarks. A description of the topography and a description of the
spill site. Record the time of the discovery, and if known, the time of
the spill or release. Note the local weather conditions. Question anyone
who might have been in the area at the time of the spill or at the time
of your discovery. If you are exposed, record any symptoms. Without
exposing yourself or anyone else, try to obtain as much information
about the substance released. If shipping papers are unavailable, look
for placards. The type of shipping containers, any physical
characteristics of the substance and, again, if safely possible, the
amount of the substance. The second item of priority is to assess the
risk. The speed at which you react, record and report is critical if the
spill poses an imminent threat to any people, animals or the
environment. If it can be accomplished safely and quickly, first
responders should determine the amount of the area threatened. They
should initially place themselves upwind from the site no less than 150
feet. A large spill or release that is more than 30 minutes old may
require greater safe distances. Be aware of the physical characteristics
of the substance. A solid spill on dry ground will pose a threat to
those who come into contact with it. However, a sudden rain will
suddenly enlarge the threat to include groundwater contamination. In
addition, liquid spills will seep into the ground, eventually
contaminating population water sources. And a situation can escalate
instantly if incompatible chemicals contact each other. One of the most
serious events is the airborne release that travels downwind quickly and
in large amounts toward a population center. This holds true for
substances that suddenly become an ingredient in a fire or explosion.
The resulting gas, vapor or aerosol, will travel great distances on the
superheated air. Be aware of close proximity pressurized containers or
containers holding flammable materials. If fire causes internal
pressures to exceed the capacity of either a relief valve or the
vessel\'s designed strength, a boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion,
or BLEVE, may occur. The guidebook offers basic steps for the correct
use of its charts and tables. The first step is to decide what you know.
The second is to use the substance name or I.D. number to determine the
section with more information. The third step is to determine the effect
of the substance and the necessary isolation protective action
distances. The fourth step is to read the top two sections entitled
health hazards and fire hazards. This will help you to determine if the
substance is poisonous. Dangerous to the skin or eyes, water reactive,
flammable, explosive or likely to generate hazardous vapors. Once these
steps are completed, your immediate responsibility is to report the
situation as quickly, completely and as safely as possible. Your
organization will provide you with a personnel list in order of priority
to be contacted. Once these primary responsibilities have been
fulfilled, first responders should take steps to prevent possible
exposure to new arrival. This includes restricting traffic access and
marking the downwind direction of the hazard. During any follow‑up
actions, a first responder must stay in communication with the emergency
response point of contact in the event any changes occur. These changes
could range from incompatible liquids flowing together, to wind changing
direction, to the arrival of news media. Until someone with equal or
higher emergency response training arrives on the scene or the first
public service organization such as the fire or police department arrive
on the scene, the first responder is in charge of the situation. Once
that person is identified, provide a thorough report of what happened,
how it has been handled thus far and any consequences of the event up to
that point. Brief the on‑scene coordinator of the situation upon arrival
and provide any changes in the situation since you first reported it.
Become familiar with the DOT emergency response guidebook. Develop a
suspicious attitude about unusual events. Pay attention to the
environment around you. Remember, with hazardous substance releases,
reaction time is critical. You could be the one person who makes a real
difference.

F. Mills: That was very interesting about those duties, so let\'s turn
to Tony now for questions from the field.

T. Garrett: All right. We do have a caller on the line. We have Olivia,
I understand, from Forest Service in bishop, California. Good morning,
Olivia.

Caller: Hi, good morning.

T. Garrett: Thanks for calling in. What\'s your question for in the
strictors?

Caller: The question I have is regarding the connection on ‑‑ section on
material safety data sheets. I\'m curious as to whether there is a
minimum quantity of chemicals at a particular site where MSDSs are
required?

T. Garrett: Good question. Martin?

M. Thrasher: Good question, and simple answer, no.

T. Garrett: Is it really that simple, Martin? Olivia, does that answer
your question?

Caller: So all the sites that use any of the chemicals that are required
to have the material safety data sheets, even if they\'re at the
consumer level?

M. Thrasher: Well, now consumer products that you buy in the store as a
consumer are not subject to the Material Safety Data Sheet requirements,
but the chemicals that we\'re talking about are bought by your agency
for use at the agency, and so they\'re not consumer products at that
point. So you need an MSDS for all of them. And to illustrate this, the
white‑out, I don\'t know if anybody uses white‑out anymore because
we\'re not using typewriters, but white‑out is a chemical that needs an
MSDS. We used to work with wire in our electric industry that had an oil
coating around it. That was a chemical. So the term chemical is a pretty
broad term. I don\'t know of any minimum requirements for the amounts.

F. Mills: The only place that they might be a minimum, Olivia, might be
in the area of EPCRA reporting, and there are some stipulations in that
other law about consumer quantities of material. But be careful. Don\'t
confuse the OSHA requirements for employee safety with the EPCRA
requirements for reporting. Both of them use an MSDS to get that report
out to the field. So that\'s something you may have heard. And that\'s
what is so important that you read each specific regulation and see why
the particular MSDS is used for that regulation first.

M. Thrasher: Yes. Because there are minimum thresholds under EPCRA for
reporting both to the local emergency planning committee and to your
state emergency response commission and for doing your Form R reporting.
But there are no such minimums relating to the worker right to know
program.

Caller: Ok. I think the key point there, then, the answer to my question
from you is that it is being used at work and, therefore, must have a
material safety data sheet. I get that question quite a bit out in the
field while I\'m doing the inventories.

M. Thrasher: Right. No, there is no minimum. All right. I think with
that, if ‑‑ Frank, did you have something else there?

F. Mills: Yes, this time we will go ahead and look again at another
videotape which was prepared for us by the U.S. Army corps of engineers.
I think if you\'ll notice, one of the most important things that you as
a manager can have available for your employees is this little orange
book. Now, this book in both the first responder awareness tape you saw
how important it is for your employees to be able to use and have access
to these books. These can be obtained from the U.S. Department of
Transportation. Now let\'s go a little step further and let\'s say that
you have an employee which you are going to give further job
responsibilities to and have to react in a further way. Let\'s go ahead
and look at what their responsibilities are under first responder
operations level by the U.S. Army corps of engineers.

In this submodule we will be covering factors that operations level
first responders should consider when assessing response actions as well
as alternate strategies for response and their order of priority.
Containment of a spill ensures the safety of the responder, the public
and the immediate surrounding environment. Purposes and advantages of
hazardous substance containment include a reduction in contamination
spread, minimized environmental damage and reduced clean‑up costs. As an
operations level first responder, your responsibility extends beyond
protecting yourself against release site hazards. It includes
containment actions base pond assessed ‑‑ upon assessed risks. While all
risks can never be eliminated, they are always incident specific. Your
first consideration must be to make an accurate assessment of the
material hazards and associated risks present. Asking yourself the six
basic questions of investigations, who, what, when, where, why and how.
Can help you to understand hazardous side risks. Let\'s consider who.
Who is initially at risk? Personnel in the isolation action zone are at
increased risk. The closer downwind personnel are to the source, the
greater the risk. Now the what. What is involved? Without endangering
yourself, determine what substance is involved and estimate its amount.
Where is the has Tuesday material in relation to other elements at the
site? And is it moving in any direction that would harm people, property
or the environment? Make a note of the wind direction. Then consider
when. To the best of your knowledge, when was the material released?
Note the time when you discovered the hazard. Can current conditions
create an increased threat at a later time? Also ask yourself why this
release occurred or why the material is reacting the way it is. Finally,
ask yourself how this material will affect people, property and the
environment. The fate of a substance is determined by the environment in
which it is released. Valleys can channel vapors. Waterways can
transport substances. Materials may react violently with rain water or
may be diluted. Materials may be carried by the wind and high
temperatures can result in an increase in chemical vapors. Sometimes the
release of hazardous materials might place the surrounding community at
risk. Hazardous risk evaluation is similar to assembling a puzzle. Using
your Department of Transportation emergency response guidebook, you
should be able to define, organize and piece together related
information for an overall picture of the hazardous material risks you
may encounter‑. To piece together your hazardous risk puzzle, you should
note the contamination spread rate, the surrounding topography, weather
conditions, indoor or outdoor location, the affected population, any
environmental impact and the quantity of the release. If possible, you
should also note whether the material is in a solid, gaseous or liquid
state. If available, obtain information from the label and use the DOT
emergency response guidebook to find out information like the toxicity,
reactivity or incompatibility with other chemicals and combustibility or
flammability. Similar information can be obtained from the MSDS if one
is available. Authorized hazardous response personnel, including
operations level first responders, have the initial responsibility for
containing the spill until it stopped at its source by the emergency
response team. This containment responsibility differentiates operations
level first responders from awareness level first responders. Interim
measures can be pursued near the contamination area by choosing the
appropriate defensive strategy to follow. Ask yourself what the hazards
of the material are. Estimate where the hazards will go now that they
are released. Determine measures that can be taken to safely control the
situation. If it\'s safe to stay in the area, your options are to either
contain, confine or control the release. Containment keeps all
components of the substance in one place. Confinement prevents
contamination from moving into another area. Control seeks to prevent
the release of a larger quantity of the hazardous material into the
environment. If you know for sure that a powder material pose nose skin
contact or inhalation hazard, you may contain it by anchoring a plastic
cover over the material. Spilled liquids may be confined by containment
berm or by appropriate absorbent materials blocking its path at a
considerable distance from the source. As a first responder, you are
only allowed to control or release indirectly and from a safe distance.
Any action you take must be done only if there is no risk of exposure to
yourself. As an operations level first responder, you always have the
option of using one of the three defensive strategies. The key to
deciding what to do first is the impact your actions will have on
everything else you perform. After making sure you are protected, your
second priority is deciding to either start notification procedures or
perform an interim control containment or confinement action. The
urgency of protecting nearby people, property or environment may require
you to be flexible in your priorities of action. Each major decision
depends on other decisions. Start assigning a priority to each of the
following actions. Gather information. Identify the substance involved
and refer to the DOT emergency response guidebook. Initiate notification
procedures. Identify the associated risks. Determine the release site
safe zones. Leave the area and block its access. Coordinate any
evacuation with the on‑scene coordinator. Implement any contingency or
emergency response plans. If necessary, obtain and dress in any required
personal equipment that you are trained and authorized to wear. Contain,
confine or control the substance release. Obtain outside help.
Decontaminate. Maintain a written log of actions taken. Remember, the
safest alternatives are those that minimize your exposure and reduce the
risks to people, property and the environment. Analyze the environmental
factors surrounding the event and the characteristics and name of the
substance if you can. Determine the safe zones. Consider your options
and their consequences. Follow your organization\'s emergency response
plan along with instructions from your point of contact. Good planning
before you\'re faced with an emergency should allow you to have the
situation well under control when the on‑scene coordinator arrives.

F. Mills:, now, I\'d like to speak directly to supervisors of employees.
Because there are ‑‑ there is some confusion about how to apply the
first responder emergency response rule under HazWopER, but here\'s what
OSHA has specifically said. Job responsibilities define training
requirements. Training does not define job responsibilities. So that
means, if I as a supervisor have an employee transfers into my unit
from, say, California and shows me their training record and I look in
their record and see that they were trained at the technician level,
that does not mean that that employee can go out in the field and do
things of a technician. I as the supervisor decide what the position
description of that employee is and I will tell that employee what their
duties will be, regardless of any training they\'ve received. Now, OSHA
has made this statement. If an emergency responder has not been trained
in a specific procedure, or informed that they will be asked to perform
that procedure during an emergency response, they are not able to
perform the task regardless of any training they\'ve had in the past. So
that\'s very important that you as a supervisor realize that you have to
look at the position description of each and every employee and tell
them specifically what their responsibilities are under the OSHA
emergency response section of HazWopER. Now, this is a very technical
and important area for each of you as supervisors to look at and I think
at this time we should go to Tony for some discussion on this.

T. Garrett: All right, good. Thank you, Frank. We\'ll note that the
green light is on and we are inviting questions from any of our viewers
about the material that we\'ve covered in the first part of the
broadcast today or in either of the the tapes that we just saw. So
we\'ll take some time now for your questions and comments. One of the
questions that came in earlier, Frank, had to do with the training, and
the question is, where can I get training under HazCom in the Forest
Service?

F. Mills: Well, Tony, the Forest Service has developed some HazCom
training materials which our employees can receive from our safety
division. All they have to do is contact their local Safety Officer and
ask them about the HazCom training that\'s available in their local
unit.

T. Garrett: Bill, what\'s the best way to get that information for
people who are employed by the BLM?

B. Wiley: Several ways. The department of interior has a CD‑ROM that\'s
excellent training for hazard communication as well as other safety
aspects. That can be used and tailored and the program tailors as to
whether you are a supervisor or manager. The Bureau of Land Management
here at the National Training Center has over 20 courses under hazardous
materials program that are available. We have the Forest Service here on
site and often they have students in our classes. The Bureau of Indian
Affairs. Last week we actually had somebody from the department of
energy here. So there\'s a wide variety of attendance. The park service
has also sent people. And they\'re all welcome to come and join us.
Local training opportunities are also a available. California as I
mentioned, California specialized training institute near San Jose and
many of the other state agencies provide similar training.

T. Garrett: Thank you, bill. Again, we are inviting anyone in our
audience who has a question or maybe a comment to share, maybe an
experience being involved in an incident response, go ahead and get in
touch with us on the push‑to‑talk system or by telephone or fax and we
would love to entertain your questions or hear from you. Your
experiences you would like to share with the panel and with the viewing
audience. Frank, I\'m going to ask you to talk a little bit about
training for on‑scene commanders. What\'s been your experience with that
from the Forest Service perspective?

F. Mills: Well, one of the things that we encourage all of our
supervisors to do is get with the local community unit, like the fire
department and take this first responder on‑scene commander course under
HazWopER, because almost any supervisor can quickly have a situation
handed off to them by an employee at a spill, a car accident or
anything, and there are some specific liabilities under this regulation
that an ‑‑ the on the scene commander has to follow. And you mess up one
of those liabilities and you can find yourself into a civil situation
where you may be sued or even something ‑‑ may in some cases be held
criminally liable for violation of this statute. So it\'s kind of a
thing where we suggest f you are a supervisor, go out in your community
and get that training from your local community leaders.

T. Garrett: All right. Bill, Martin, any thoughts on that? Again, we\'ll
pause for our viewers to push to talk if you have any questions about
the material we\'re covering. We have had contact today with viewers
from South Carolina, California, Idaho, Wyoming, Oregon, Nevada,
Arizona. Have we missed anyone? Ok. What about documentation issues?
What do we need to discuss in that for our audience at this time?

B. Wiley: Short story is, if we didn\'t document it, it didn\'t happen.
If a regulator shows up and wants to see our training records f they\'re
not well organized and they can\'t be presented immediately, then the
assumption is made that we never had the training in the first place. So
it\'s very important that all of our efforts be documented completely.
My suggestion is to do something such as the Forest Service has done
with their database program, but even if that isn\'t available, then
constructing a database for your own office which lists the training
that is given, what dates it\'s given, what the annual refresher dates,
the target dates might be, as well as putting the specific information
into the personnel file of the individuals.

M. Thrasher: It\'s absolutely critical. Even well meaning, good
employees forget they\'ve had the training or when they\'ve had the
training and when they\'re asked about it, you know, just off‑the‑cuff
by somebody, they\'ve forgotten bit or they don\'t remember it. The
other hazard you run into it is if you have a disgruntled employee, they
will always say they have hadn\'t the training because if they\'re not
happy with their employer, they will try to get the employer in trouble
and say, I never had the training, and so the documentation is
absolutely critical.

F. Mills: And oftentimes, another issue that we see supervisors faced
with in the field, is they don\'t look at the type of training they\'re
sending their employees to, and an example, we have seen a number of
employees who were sent to training classes specifically designed for
emergency response persons under HazWopER, and in the field they were
being used by supervisors under the paragraph E section for general site
workers, and someone would say, \"well, I\'ve had my 40‑hour HazWopER,\"
but when you look at their actual training class and the outline of the
class, it was really ‑‑ readily apparent to the inspector that the
training they took was training for emergency response, not for general
site evaluation. And sometimes employers can get confused with that and
send an employee to the wrong training, and, in effect, they have not
got the proper training.

B. Wiley: There\'s also a an issue of providing training and not
providing the equipment they have been trained in. If we have give an
annual refresher for HazWopER training and we make sure the people know
how to use the radiation meeters and other monitoring devices that might
help them determine where the site boundaries and how to keep themselves
and others out of the sites, if they don\'t have a radiation detector
back at the office readily available to them, they might find that
they\'ve been in a site, have conducted meetings in a site, worked in a
site for some time and only years later or maybe not at all discovered
that they had been exposed. I know the BIA has some challenges in some
of their areas right now and we found several instances in the
geothermal program and other mining operations where pipe scale other
and materials, tailings, are found to be much high inner radioactivity
that we thought. There are also challenges in terms of levels of dust or
levels of organic compounds that might be in an area. And as we said
before, there\'s a potential for every hazardous materials release of
having law enforcement authority or law enforcement involvement, and
they want to get in as close as they can to collect evidence. Well,
absent equipment, absent the proper training, it\'s easy to be in the
middle of a site and really not know that you are.

M. Thrasher: I want to make one more comment about training and
responsibility by the managers and the supervisors. We had a very tragic
case where a fellow who was about 36 years old was repairing some PVC
pipe in a small enclosed space, and he hadn\'t been properly trained or
didn\'t follow his training, he was using this PVC pipe cement, and he
inhaled enough of that in this confined space and ended up killing him.
Of course, the law enforcement, the civil authorities, when it got down
to lawsuit time, they were looking at the supervisors, to figure out who
they were going to sue, because this guy wasn\'t properly trained on
simple things, and it\'s usually the simple things like that that get
you. You think it\'s something exotic, but it\'s the simple things we
get used to working with every day and we fail to see the hazards in
those things. So it\'s a problem. Tony, was there anything else?

T. Garrett: Yes, we just want to provide an advisory to some of our
downlink sites. Apparently we\'re having an outage of our signal,
interruption of our signal, due to sun spot‑like effect at this time of
year with the sun and the satellite signal, et cetera. So, anyway, you
don\'t need a scientific explanation of that. You just need to know your
signal may be interrupted for six to nine minutes and if that\'s the
case, just bear with us. It\'s something that\'s beyond our control even
with this brain trust here on the instruction panel. Not able to fix
that one. All right, now, Martin, let\'s go back to you and any final
thoughts before we go to that knowledge assessment?

M. Thrasher: Well, that\'s going to conclude our discussion about OSHA
and the safety HazCom requirements and the HazWopER requirements. Again,
if you have any questions, get back us to. We\'re going to move on now
to the next two topics in our module, and that relates to Department of
Transportation regulations and pesticides under FIFRA. Now, as we do
that, what I would like to do is do another quick learning assessment
here to see what you know with regard to DOT and pesticides. So if
you\'ve downloaded your materials, you have those there. If not, then
again on this camera next to me, we\'ve got the questions for you. We
have three of them this time. Here\'s the first one: the U.S. Department
of Transportation regulations normally blank are or are not mandated for
transportation activities engaged in by Federal employees because
Federal employees generally are not considered to be transporting
material in. Blank. And I\'ll bring these back up for you in a moment so
you\'ll have a little bit of time to go through them. Here\'s the second
question. Pesticides, herbicides, algaecides, insecticides, fungicides,
rodenticides, miticides and all other similar chemicals are all referred
to as blank under the Federal insecticide, fungicide and rodenticide
act, or FIFRA. And here\'s the third question: it is illegal for anyone,
including Federal employees, to use a pesticide in a manner blank with
the label. So I\'ll give you a few moments now to go through these and
I\'ll show them to you one at a time. .

M. Thrasher: The first question is this: the United States Department of
Transportation regulations normally are or are not mandated for
transportation activities engaged in by Federal employees because
Federal employees generally are not considered to be transporting
material in blank. Who knows the answer to that? Somebody use your
push‑to‑talk first of all, are Federal employees normally under DOT
regulations? Who knows that? All right. Department of Transportation
regulations normally are not mandated for transportation activities by
Federal employees. And why is that? Does anybody have that one? Ok. The
key here is that Federal employees generally are not under the mandatory
DOT regulations because they don\'t transport material in commerce.
That\'s the key. Let\'s look at number 2. Pesticides, herbicides,
algaecides, insecticides, fungicides, rodenticides, miticides and all
other similar chemicals are referred to as? What do we call these? Who
has that? We use one name for all of these generally.

Caller: Pesticides.

M. Thrasher: I don\'t know who just called in, but absolutely correct.
They\'re all called pets sides, and the reason I want to emphasize that
is sometimes people say, well, you\'ve talked about pesticides. What
about herbicides or what about algaecides, well, when we talk about
pesticides, it refers to all of these commodities. All right, the last
question, it is illegal for anyone, including Federal employees, to use
a pesticide in a manner blank with the label.

Caller: Inconsistent.

Caller: Inconsistent.

M. Thrasher: Absolutely. We have two people calling in with the correct
answer. Inconsistent with the label. Now, generally it\'s easier to talk
about using them consistently with the label, but the law actually says
you can\'t use them in a manner inconsistent with the label. Good job.
What I would like to do now is turn very briefly to the Department of
Transportation regulations. Now, the DOT regulations are ‑‑ come under
the hazardous materials transportation act. The regulations themselves
are found in the 49 CFR series. Now, the DOT regulations apply to
shipments of hazardous materials in commerce. So generally this does not
apply to government shipments because you\'re not engaging commerce.
But, safety considerations and policy considerations by your various
agencies do dictate compliance with DOT shipping requirements, including
labeling, packaging, placarding and use of shipping papers. Now, there
are three areas that are mandatory for Federal employees under the law,
and these include shipments of hazardous wastes under the Resource
Conservation Recovery Act, and the reason for that is that those rules
are found under EPA\'s rules for RCRA and they\'re not in the DOT rules.
So they\'re mandatory for you. The second area relates to commercial
driver\'s licenses. So you must have CDLs for those drivers who are
engaged in commercial activities of that sort. And the third area
relates to training for personnel who are involved with hazardous
materials, shipments. So I think sometimes it\'s a mistake, we think,
well, we\'re either totally out of DOT regulations or some people think
you\'re totally within DOT regulations and actually neither case is
true. In some cases you\'re mandatory under the law to follow DOT and in
other cases, by good safety practices, or agency policy, you must follow
DOT. So I think what we would like to do now is put off any discussion
about DOT and move right into FIFRA for a moment. And then we\'ll get
back to more questions and discussion. FIFRA stands for the Federal
insecticide, fungicide and rodenticide act. Its common name is the
Federal environmental pesticide control act of 1972. Or FEPCA, but
generally you don\'t see that term in use. We usually use FIFRA. Now,
FIFRA applies to manufacturers and distributors of pesticides primarily,
and, of course, Federal agencies don\'t generally do that. But Federal
agencies do get involved with the storage, use and disposal of
pesticides and pesticide containers, and so you\'re subject to the FIFRA
regulations in that regard. Now, I would before we go any further with
FIFRA want to make sure that we\'re all in tune with the definition of
pesticides. Pesticides cover all pesticides such as things that we call
pesticides, herbicides, algaecides, insecticides, fungicides,
rodenticides, miticides and all other similar chemicals of that sort. So
when we use this term \"pesticide\" it means the whole range of these
kinds of things. I think with that what I\'d like to do is turn to Bill
and ask you to talk a little bit about safety related things to ‑‑
relating to pesticides.

B. Wiley: Well, the good news is FIFRA can be boiled down to follow the
instructions on the label for disposal and for use and if you do that,
you\'re probably going to have no problems with FIFRA. The bad news is
there are many other regulations which involve pesticide use, and,
frankly, most inspections turn up something wrong with your pesticide
program. So I would like Martin to put up on the overheads for us, if he
would, the entire first of our overhead sheets. Some of the more common
violations that we find on OSHA inspections or inspection teams are. The
pesticide management plan, specifically written as a pesticide
management plan. It could be written as a subpart of HazCom, as could
any of these plans. If you\'re using pesticides requiring respiratory
protection, you need a respiratory protection plan. The respiratory
protection plan includes a part of or incorporates by reference a
medical monitoring plan. A medical monitoring plans requires perhaps 400
dollar physicals from the U.S. Public Health Service or a private
provider. The HazWopER plan needs to include pesticides and incorporate
by reference. All every these plans have to be updated annually and you
can see that that in itself is a lot of paper work. Next the Job Hazard
Analysis needs to be filled out for pesticide application. This includes
reference to the training and the certifications that are required. And
the recertifications or refreshers that are required and all of that
takes time and commitment of personnel and expense. The Personal
Protective Equipment needs to be specified and the purchasing of that
might not be as simple as it sounds because respirators don\'t fit all
people. You might have to buy several to get a proper fit and that in
terms of monitoring, you should be keeping your records for 35 years
after the person has actually left and stopped using them. Fit testing
is also sometimes a consideration, and you need to make arrangements for
that. Employee health issues need to be considered, long term liability
issues. Will these people come back to you and claim that they have been
exposed to something? It\'s not uncommon for pesticides to be perfectly
acceptable one day and the next day or at least a year or two later they
might find that there are problems with them. Even some of or most
benignest pesticides. Environmental issues, the long term liability for
those issues, and what does the court say in your particular area? Have
we been sued before? Do we have court orders to refrain from using
pesticides in certain areas? Many of our agencies have experienced these
problems. These considerations need to be taken into account by managers
when they make the decision as to whether or not they\'re going to use
pesticides in their area. Alternate management techniques may be
considered. It might be more expensive in the short run to go back to a
site every year or every other year and do increased cutting operations
or other alternate management techniques in lieu of pesticide
application, but in the long run, considering all of those things that
need to be taken into account, you might find it\'s less expensive to do
that. Contracting out may be a cheaper way to go. But you also need to
train your people as contracting officers representives or project
inspectors to make sure your contractor is not doing something you might
in fact have some liability for. So you ever\' decided to enter into a
pesticide program or more likely you\'ve inherited one and you have one
ongoing. Let\'s look at some of the challenges that we have in the field
in terms of the pesticide program. You come to an office. You find these
pesticides out in your wareyard someplace and you have to figure out
something to do with them because leaving them throughout by itself is a
violation. You find a storage closet, but stacking them on top of
themselves might put you in a position of incompatible chemicals
reacting within themselves. They might even be carried through your
entire building. It may, in fact, take thousands of dollars to provide
proper storage and even if you have proper flammable storage, you may
find that your state and county agencies, as well as the Federal
regulations much more specific labeling and much more specific record
keeping in terms of your pesticide storage. This is another area you are
issue where you need to check with local regulators because there can be
some vast differences, usually more restrictive in terms of the Federal
regulations than the state regulations. So, remember throughout this and
other sections that we need to consult them. And also remember that in
most offices, are not on Federally owned land. So you may have some
challenges with and discussions with your owner. Remember that the
labels that you have to comply with are not all that simple. It\'s easy
to say comply with a label instructions, but sometimes the label
instructions are difficult, sometimes impossible, to comply with. If the
label, for instance, says not to expose your skin, the workers\' skin,
to the pesticide and the provision is made for backpack pump spraying,
you might it almost impossible not to contaminate the worker and this is
why many agencies have done away with backpack spraying altogether. Fit
says you should mix on it a concrete area and an area that can be
cleaned up and you try to utilize wash rack facilities that weren\'t
designed for pesticide mixing facilities, you might find that these
areas really don\'t lend themselves and quite often drains end up down
into water courses and it\'s more than embarrassing if the land
management agencies end up killing fish or contaminating water courses.
So, if we have this liability and we are participating in this kind of a
program, we also take into account the long‑term liability of the
disposal facilities and the cost of disposal and that can sometimes be
very expensive. Remember that once we put any kind of hazardous
materials into a treatment storage and disposal facility, a TSDF, we are
the deep pockets land owner. We are the deep pockets owner of that, and
we do inherit liability for anything that might happen to any of those
TSDFs, any releases that might occur. So, to Martin f Martin will now
leadness a short panel discussion or talk.

M. Thrasher: Yeah. I did want to mention a couple of things about
pesticides. I think we have another visual here. One is the importance
under the Federal regulations that require the storage, handling and use
of pesticides in a manner consistent with the labeling. You notice here
we talked earlier that the law says you actually have to use them in a
manner not inconsistent with the labeling. That\'s kind of an awkward
way to look at it. So I usually to translate that to handling and using
the stuff in a manner consistent with the labeling. The other important
thing is to dispose of empty containers in a manner in accordance with
the labels. It\'s amazing to me how many times you see an empty
pesticide container that\'s being used that says right on it that it\'s
not to be reused but it\'s to be disposed after use, and you see it
being used as a trash can at some facility. That\'s illegal to do that.
You want to make sure to follow those label instructions. Now, this
sometimes gets to be a bit academic to talk about all this stuff, and I
want to personalize it just a little bit. Back many years ago I had
occasion to represent an individual manager who was treating Dutch elm
disease with a pesticide called LIGNANSAN and the label required this to
be injected into the roots into these elm trees. Well, he was a very
well educated guy and he knew that the pesticide had the same chemical
formulation as another pesticide that they usually used on grasses to
treat a fungus on grass. And since this particular LIGNASAN was
outdated, the shelf life had expired, he didn\'t want to use it on the
Dutch elm trees, so he ordered his people to use it on the grass and he
ordered the new LIGNASAN for the trees. One of his people told him they
couldn\'t do that because that violated the label instruction to use it
for root injection only. And he went ahead and ordered it anyway. Well,
the upshot was that one of his employees notified the Environmental
Protection Agency and they came down, investigated it, and he was sued
personally for \$15,000 in a civil suit by the EPA for ordering the
misuse of that pesticide. This is serious business. Is there anything
else as far as DOT or FIFRA that either Frank or Bill, you want to add?

F. Mills: I\'d just like to add that the issues that we\'re looking at
with these chemicals are very complex and you should always seek
authoritative help, especially if you\'re unsure of what to do when
faced with how to comply with one of these regulations. All of you have
personnel who are either at your regional or Federal or Washington
Office levels who can come back and help you make these decisions that
you need to make as a supervisor in the field. So seek out people who
are qualified to help you make these decisions.

M. Thrasher: All right. I think with that, what we need to do is go to
Tony for my very favorite part of this program, Tony, \"The HazMat
Challenge.\"

T. Garrett: Thank you. It\'s time to see if our viewers are ready to
face the challenge, \"The HazMat Challenge.\" You know the rules. Using
the board on your screen, our competing turns will take turns selecting
a competing square and answering the questions. Answer correctly and
claim the squares. The team to claim three squares horizontally,
vertically or diagonally. Martin, since we have had your complaints
about your judging, we will ask you to be judge. We have had three
rounds of \"HazMat Challenge\" and the west team has taken all three
rounds. If this were the olympics, the Russians would have filed a
protest by now, but east has a chance to stage a comeback, and we\'ll
see if that happens. Here\'s what you\'ll be competing for in this round
of \"HazMat Challenge.\" It is the one and only, the official, except no
substitutes, the official \"HazMat Challenge\" T‑shirt. Again today
we\'ll divide our viewing audience into two teams. Everybody east of the
Continental Divide is on Team East. All of you west of the Continental
Divide is on on Team West. If everyone is ready to play, we will go with
\"HazMat Challenge.\" I will invite Team East, who I would have to say
is the underdog, to check in with us on the push‑to‑talk to get ready to
play \"HazMat Challenge.\" Anyone from east of the Continental Divide?

Caller: Pat in South Carolina.

T. Garrett: Thanks for checking in. Go ahead and select a square.

Caller: I\'m going to try and to better than I did last time. Number 5.

T. Garrett: Good selection, Pat. And the question is, true or false
question, MSDSs must be locked in a secure and fireproof area. Pat, you
have 15 seconds.

Caller: False.

T. Garrett: Pat says false and the answer is false. Nice going, Pat. For
Team East, the puts an X right in the Biddle of the box. ‑‑ in the
middle of the box. Let\'s go west of the Continental Divide in that
anyone from Team West, check in.

Caller: This is Ron from Medford.

T. Garrett: Go ahead and select a square.

Caller: 9.

T. Garrett: All right. Ron from Medford, the question is: the hazardous
communication ‑‑ the hazard communication standard is also called
the\... the employee notification rule the don\'t ask, don\'t tell rule
or the worker right to know rule? Ron, you have 15 seconds.

Caller: That would be C.

T. Garrett: Worker right to know rule. Let\'s check with the authorities
and see if that answer is correct. It is, indeed. Team West puts an O
down in the corner of the screen. Let\'s go back to Team East. Anyone
east of the Continental Divide check in now.

Caller: Lamar from ‑‑

T. Garrett: Pat, I want you to stand by and let\'s give Lamar a chance
to select a square for Team East. Lamar, go ahead.

Caller: Number 1.

T. Garrett: The question is, underring that MSDSs are available to
workers is the responsibility of\... is it A., the EPA enforcement
office? B., the employer? or C. the safety contractor? You have 15
seconds, Lamar?

Caller: B., the employer.

T. Garrett: That\'s correct. B., the employer. Lamar scores again for
Team East. Back west of the Continental Divide, anyone from Team West
check in with us now.

Caller: Al from burns, Oregon. In the middle of the blizzard. Al, pick a
square.

Caller: Let\'s have 8.

T. Garrett: The question is\... containers must be labeled clearly with
A. orange fluorescent ink B. the official FIFRA logo C. popular or
chemical name of the contents. You have 15 seconds.

Caller: That would be C.

T. Garrett: Al says it\'s C., and that is the correct answer. Nice going
for Team West. All right, back east and, pat, are you still with us? Go
ahead and select a square.

Caller: Number 7.

T. Garrett: The question, Pat, is\... the Tom HazWopER stands for
hazardous waste, is it operations and emergency response official plan
for emergency reaction or office of personnel? Pat, you have 15 seconds.

Caller: I believe it\'s A.

T. Garrett: Let\'s see what the answer is. It is, indeed, A. Nice going,
pat. East I would have to say is in the game this time. Anyone on Team
West check in with us.

Caller: Rick in he will co‑, Nevada.

T. Garrett: Select a square, Rick.

Caller: Square 4.

T. Garrett: Which of the following is not part of an MSDS? Is it health
hazard data, location of the nearest fire station, or the date the MSDS
was prepared? Which of those is not part of an MSDS? You have 15
seconds, Rick.

Caller: B. is our answer.

T. Garrett: Rick says the answer is B. And that is correct. That\'s not
part of an MSDS. All right, let\'s go back to the west ‑‑ the east?
We\'re going back east? Team East. Anyone east of the Continental
Divide.

Caller: Ray.

T. Garrett: Go ahead and select a square for Team East. The question s
ray, HazWopER has how many levels of training? Sit 3, 5 or 7? Ray, you
have 15 seconds.

Caller: B., 5.

T. Garrett: It is 5. Nice going, ray. For Team East, east has done it,
congratulations. Well, that was exciting. Nice going, Team East. Finally
with a victory there after three games had gone to Team West. We want to
thank everyone who called in. All of you will be receiving \"HazMat
Challenge\" T‑shirt, but to get that you\'re going to have to give me
your name and your mailing address, and we\'ll talk about that in just a
moment. So Team East, finally with a victory. Congratulations to all of
our players from Team East and from Team West. Here is my e‑mail address
so that you can give me your mailing address and I can send you that
official \"HazMat Challenge\" T‑shirt. Just send me an e‑mail. We\'ll
get that to you soon. Now we have reserved some time at this point to
take your questions and comments about any of the material that we have
covered in Module 4. So we\'ll keep the green light on and invite any
questions or comments from the field. Exciting game of \"HazMat
Challenge.\" Martin, I think ‑‑

M. Thrasher: Best one yet. Best one. And I was glad to seep the east
won. It was very good.

T. Garrett: Ok. Any questions from the viewers now on any of the
material we\'ve covered in Module 4? OSHA, safety, DOT, FIFRA? Any of
you, if you would like to have Martin go through all those miticides and
algaecides sides ‑‑ we could also arrange for that to happen.

Caller: I have one question, Tony. If we missed module 1, how can we go
back and pick that up?

T. Garrett: We don\'t have any plans to rebroadcast module 1 at this
point. What we do plan to do is have all of the six modules available
for viewing, and that\'s still under consideration. The media we will be
using. Certainly by videotape, and what we would like to do is have
those modules on a CD also. So if ‑‑ pat, if that\'s you in South
Carolina, just get in touch with me by e‑mail and after we finish these
six series in broadcast presentation, we\'ll make sure that you get the
copies you need of module 1 and any other modules that you may have
missed. Thanks for the question.

Caller: Thank you. .

T. Garrett: Any other questions from our viewers? All right. Well, we
checked in early in the broadcast, at the beginning, to see if our
friend and valedictorian Mark Hemingway up Yellowstone National Park had
made it in, and he was stuck in that snowmobile traffic. Mark, if you
did get to the downlink site today, check in with us and say hello.

Caller: I did make it.

T. Garrett: Good to hear from you. What\'s the ‑‑ give us the traffic
and weather report from Yellowstone.

Caller: Well, when I left it was snowing and blowing and it was about 18
inches of snow, and I wasn\'t snow sledding, I was snow boating.

T. Garrett: We are ever more impressed by your determination and
commitment to this training. Thanks to you for joining us. We know it\'s
not always to make the time available for the training you need and
want. So we\'re appreciative you\'ve done that today. Any other
questions from our viewers?

Caller: Tony, this is Kate from Virginia.

T. Garrett: Yes, Kate.

Caller: I\'d like to ask if the 40‑hour HazWopER training is also
creditable to any of the response‑level training, either the level I
awareness or level II responder.

T. Garrett: Good question, Kate.

F. Mills: Kate, there\'s a couple of instances where it might be, and I
want to preface that with \"might.\" EPA offers a course called the
165‑5 or the 165‑15 series, which is known as emergency response to
hazardous materials incidents. And they have said that if you have
attended either of those courses at an EPA facility or a facility that
they\'ve authorized to give those courses, and you have the certificate
for the 40‑hour 165‑5 or 165‑15, that it will be inclusive of both
requirements for either the E requirement or the Q requirement. And that
is one of the few places that that translates that way. But most
generally, if someone says that they have the 40‑hour HazWopER class, it
does not translate to either an awareness operations technician or
specialist because in those areas under emergency response you have to
meet specific competencies, and that means you have to demonstrate to an
instructor that you can perform certain competent requirements during
the class, and there\'s only one class in the United States that right
now OSHA has agreed meets that requirement, and that is the 165‑5 or
165‑15 series given by EPA. So you really have to be careful when you
make that determination. It does not translate both ways.

T. Garrett: Thank you, Frank. Any other questions for our panel from our
viewing audience today? All right. If not, then we\'ll turn to Martin
for the wrap‑up.

M. Thrasher: All right. Thanks, we\'ve really appreciated all the phone
calls and the push‑to‑talk today. That\'s really important for the
program. So next week, make sure to join us again and come back and duty
same thing. We\'ve tried to emphasize today the importance of having a
written HazCom plan, having training for your employees and documenting
that training, and then we tried to emphasize, all of us are subject to
enforcement if we don\'t carry out these responsibilities and that\'s
just a fact of life. Now, next week during Module 5 we\'re going to be
covering the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, the Safe Drinking Water
Act, spill prevention control and countermeasure under the Clean Water
Act and then we have a short segment on environmental justice that was
brought up today as well. So we invite you to come back next week for
those subjects. Tony?

T. Garrett: All right, that concludes Module 4 in our series, the
Manager\'s Tool Kit for Environmental Compliance and Pollution
Prevention and we hope you\'ll plan to join us at the same time next
Thursday March 14th for Module 5. Please let us know how many of you
were with us today and sign the roster in your viewing room, and then
fax that to us at this number. And remember, the primary source of
information about this course, study materials and resources. Will be on
your agency\'s website. . We would like to thank Martin Thrasher, Bill
Wiley and Frank Mills for all their great work in designing and
delivering today\'s instruction. On behalf of the USDA Forest Service
and the Bureau of Land Management, thanks to all of you for watching and
so long from Phoenix!

Announcer: This broadcast has been a presentation of the USDA Forest
Service office of corporate training and the BLM NAS Training Center.