**FTS-HHS ACF**

**Moderator: Louise Gill**

**March 12, 2008**

**1:00 pm CT**

Coordinator: Welcome and thank you for standing by. At this time, all
participants are in a listen only mode until the question and answer
period of today's conference call.

During the question and answer period, if you'd like to ask questions,
please press star 1 on the touch tone of your phone. You'll be announced
prior to asking your question.

I'd like to remind all parties today's conference call is recorded. If
you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. At this time,
I'd like to turn the conference call over to Ms. Louise Gill. Ma'am, you
may begin.

Louise Gill: Thank you. Good morning everyone.

Man: Morning.

Louise Gill: I would like to welcome everyone to our conference call
today. We're going to be talking about kinship and grandparents raising
grandchildren. And if you cannot access the Power Point, if you will
call (Annelle Bogus) and the number is 206-615-3648.

Our speaker sent me the email this morning and I've been getting emails
saying that you can't open it. So I believe (Annelle) will be able to
give you assistance on that. If not, if you cannot open the email, or
the Power Point, we will be putting this on the Web page after the call.
So you may access it that way.

So if there are no more questions about that, I would like to introduce
Kristie Lund who is our guest speaker today and she is from the Casey
Family Foundation and she's going to speak and present her -- she's
going to be talking as she goes through the Power Point but I'm sure
that Kristie will be open to any questions during the presentation.

So if you have questions, please this is the time that we need to talk
about what's going on with our foster care system and our grandparents
raising grandchildren.

So Kristie, I'm going to let you introduce yourself because I'm afraid
I'll leave something out and I want these people to know all about you.
So I'll turn it over to you now.

Kristie Lund: Thank you Louise. Well, first and foremost, I'm kinship
caregiver. I'm raising my two grandchildren. (Jasmine) is 11 and I've
had her since she was five weeks old. And (Anthony), her half brother --
excuse me -- her half brother is 5, and I've had him since he was ten
months old. It's quite the journey.

The -- I also do a support group for kinship caregivers in a community
about 20 miles south of Seattle, named Kent, and my group is the
Relatives as Parents Project. I've been doing that for probably five or
six years.

I'm a founding member of the Washington State Kinship Care Oversight
Committee. We're mandated by the legislature to do updates yearly on
this data kinship care in Washington State. We also work to get
legislation passed for our kinship caregivers.

I'm also a member of the King County Kinship Collaboration which is a
county wide organization that's come together with 26 different
agencies, caregivers, support group leaders, to better meet the needs
and serve the kinship caregivers in King County in Washington. And I
work at Casey Family Programs. So that's me in a nutshell.

If you want, we could go ahead and get started on the Power Point. I'm
just going to -- like Louise said, I'll go through it kind of quickly.
If you have questions as I'm going, that's fine or if you want to save
them until I'm done that's fine too. I'm hoping you have lots of
questions.

Okay, so let's get started. Kinship care, the unexpected journey. And
I've (misquoted) so (us) as kinship caregivers. Care giving may take
forms unanticipated. And these are my unanticipated care giving forms,
(Jasmine) and (Anthony).

Okay, care giving provides opportunities to go insane. I can verify
that. Or become a creative thinking. To become depressed or honor your
limits. Keep doing, not ask for help. Be a superwoman or ask for help
and take care of ourselves. And to be human. And that's one of the
hardest things for caregivers is to remember self-care.

How did this happen? Substance abuse, alcohol abuse, child abuse,
neglect, mental health issues, incarceration, HIV/AIDS, homelessness,
military deployment or death of a parent. And I think by and large,
substance and alcohol abuse are the number one reason that we have these
kids.

As each new drug epidemic hits this country, starting, well, back with
heroine originally and then crack cocaine, crystal meth is now one of
the top reasons that we have these children. Parents get addicted and
can't take care of them.

Give some data. We'll do some data. Care giving in the U.S. -- 6
million-plus children live in households headed by relatives; 4.5
million of these children are being cared for by grandparents. And these
caregivers save the U.S. government an average of \$6.5 billion per year
in foster care costs.

In Alaska, 5110 children are being raised by relatives, 1842 of the
caregivers are grandparents, 67.4% of the grandparents are under the age
of 60, and 11.5% live in poverty. And you'll see as we go through the
states, it's very similar. States with higher population, of course,
have higher numbers, but it's pretty similar.

Care giving in Idaho -- 7087 children are being raised by relatives,
3487 of the caregivers are grandparents, 72% of the grandparents are
under the age of 60, and 14% live in poverty. And I'm going to just go
through these kind of quickly here. I'm sure you all can read the stats
for yourself.

One thing to keep in mind -- I'm going to go back there for a minute --
one thing to keep in mind as we look at these numbers is that this is
taken from the 2000 census, so only 1 in 6 households in the U.S.
received the long form that had the question about, are you a
grandparent that's totally responsible for your grandchildren's care, or
something to that effect.

So th -- again, 1 in 6 received that and then it only asked about
grandparents. So it didn't take into account all the other relatives
that are raising children as well, aunts and uncles. And one of the
highest new populations that we're seeing here emerging is siblings that
are taking on their younger siblings, even to the point of getting them
out of foster care and being the responsible adult for their younger
siblings. So there's quite a variety of kinship care going on.

Okay. Okay, grandparent kin relative hurdles -- and this seems to go
across the spectrum, whether you're a grandparent or an aunt or an uncle
or a kin -- sibling.

Pressed into large systems -- and we see the biggest effect of this on
our senior caregivers. Many of them have never experienced child welfare
at all. They didn't know about TANF or the CSO offices. They have no
clue to the legal system. And just really didn't know where to go to get
help. So being -- having to deal with those systems -- education systems
is another one. Many of these folks have not been inside a school in a
long time and as we all know, things have changed dramatically in the
last 20 years within schools.

Shattered expectations -- none of us expected to do this. I don't think
any of the age groups of women or women and men expected to be the
caregivers of young children at the point we are in our lives. The older
the caregiver, the less they expected it.

Myself personally, I'm raising a 5 year old. I definitely will be
working probably for the next 13-plus years and I'm 54. So it's not
exactly how I expected to finish it up, but it's okay.

Triangulation between grandparent, adult child and grandchild -- and
this could go amongst other family members as well, but for
grandparents, the adult which is your natural child, it's very difficult
to, say, turn away from that child in order to raise their child. But
that's basically what you end up having to do, especially if they're in
the thrones of addiction.

It ki -- I've seen it go on a spectrum and it did in my life as well,
where I tried to help my adult child and tried and tried and tried. And
then I got her child and an infant that needs lots of care, lots of
things, and I had to let that adult child go. And not disconnect her
totally but just let her go and meet her adult consequences because I
couldn't do both and I wasn't really helping her at all by trying to
support her to.

So -- and I see that a lot with all our caregivers that that adult
family member, you know, you don't want to turn your back on them but in
some respects you have to in order to focus your energies on the
children that you're raising. So that can be a big issue there.

There's a lot of grief and loss around that, the grief and loss of your
adult child because they're not, you know, not what you expected and
there's a lot of grief around it and it's unending in that they keep
popping up. You know, it's not as if you were dealing with a death, at
least in a lot of cases, it's not. They're just not in your life and
then they'll come back for a little bit and maybe try and do better and
then they'll be gone again. So it's a cycle of grief and loss that just
keeps going.

And then you have the children's grief and loss to deal with as well. In
my case they were infants so it's different. A lot of the kids come as
older kid, you know, grade school age, and they're going through their
own grieving process of not being with a parent.

Social isolation is another big one. You no longer fit into your peer
group. Your friends, especially if you're older, your friends that have
children that are grown, you can't really drop and go out to dinner and
go to movies and do things like social things you used to do with them
because you now have children again. And eventually they quit calling.
And then in the school situation, you're the grandma in the classroom.

So it can be very socially isolating and it's one of the reasons that we
strongly urge folks to get into support groups because there you're able
to meet with folks that are going through the same issues that you're
going through, the same or similar and the kids can have a chance to get
together and they're not isolated thinking, you know, why am I living
with grandma. So we really encourage support groups.

Legal difficulties -- I think that goes without saying. All the hurdles
with child welfare and even without, it can be extremely expensive to
get custody of your kids.

Affordable housing is another huge issue. Many of our senior
grandparents are in senior housing when the kids come. They can't stay
there anymore because of regulations but they can't afford to go
anywhere else, and so they're really in a bind -- can be really in a
bind as far as housing.

There are some grandparent housing developments going up around the
country. I think there're maybe four or five that are built in a
courtyard style, a gated courtyard style with handicap access and all
the social services have a presence in a main building there as well as
a daycare. So there's easy access for the caregivers and the kids can be
watched from just about anywhere in the building. So it's really -- the
ones that they're doing, they're doing very well.

Financial limitations -- well, if you're retired and you're on a limited
income, the compensation you might get is not much. In Washington State
it's -- if you're not involved in the child welfare system, you receive
\$349 a month in a TANF grant for the first child and \$91 for each
additional child.

I think the average foster care payment for the first child -- well, for
any child -- is about \$625 and then it just goes up from there based on
need. So you can see the huge discrepancy in the amount of support
that's available.

Again, with our older caregivers, there are a lot of health concerns.
And we tend to not take very good care of ourselves, putting the kid's
needs first, and so that can be another issue for caregivers.

(Unintelligible) start starting to (move) here. Here's the Caregiver's
Bill of Rights. As a caregiver, I have the right to take care of myself,
to rest when I'm tired, to eat well and to take breaks when I need them,
to recognize the limits of my own endurance and strengths, to seek help
from family, involve parties and the community at large, to socialize
and do the things I enjoy, to acknowledge my feelings and express them
constructively, to take pride in the valuable work I do, applaud the
courage and inventiveness it takes to meet care needs.

And then I put some resources in. These are the big national groups that
work with caregivers. Any of them are excellent. I go to all of them
regularly to see what's going on in the caregiver world.

And last but not least, the miracle we hope for is not always the
miracle we receive. And I would say that raising my grandkids has been a
great joy. It continues to be a great joy despite the struggles that are
there. And I love working with the Kinship Care community. And that's
about it for the Power Point.

Louise Gill: Kristie, can we now ask questions?

Kristie Lund: Please.

Louise Gill: Okay, we'd like to open it up for any questions that anyone
may have.

Coordinator: Thank you. At this time, if you'd like to ask questions
today, please press the star 1 on the touchtone of your phone. You'll be
asked to record your name prior to asking your question. Again, that's
star 1 on the touchtone of your phone. One moment please.

Ma'am, at this time I show no questions on the phone line.

Louise Gill: Okay, I have a question. This is Louise. Kristie, can you
talk more about the difference financially from, like, receiving
financial benefits if you are a relative versus a foster care parent
that has been appointed by the state?

Kristie Lund: Well it's a -- I can't. (Unintelligible). Most of us are
not foster licensed. There are a few in -- in Washington State
approximately 11% of kinship caregivers are licensed. The other 89% are
not. So there're a huge number of us that are not licensed.

It's not that easy to get licensed as a foster parent if you already
have the children. They consi -- the children are not in imminent harm
and so the state will usually not get involved once you already have the
kids. The state doesn't promote foster parenting of kinship so it's kind
of hard to become a foster parent for your grandkids or your relatives.

And the difference in payment, I think an average foster care payment is
\$525 or \$625 a month for a child and for a TANF grant, we receive
what's called a non-needy relative grant, and it's \$349 for the first
child.

Louise Gill: Okay, so you can apply for a non-needy relative grant?

Kristie Lund: Yes ma'am.

Louise Gill: Okay, and is that true, do you know, in all states like
Alaska, Idaho, Washington and Oregon?

Kristie Lund: I'm going to guess because I don't know.

Louise Gill: Okay.

Kristie Lund: But I'm guessing that -- is there the same or similar. I'm
looking through some paperwork group because -- Alaska has a Temporary
Assistance Program. It's a financial program. I'm sure most of the
states have it in some form or another.

Louise Gill: Okay and so what benefits -- is it just benefits that a
grandparent raising a grandchild could receive, it's just for the child?

Kristie Lund: It's just for the child. So they don't take the
grandparents in -- well at least in Washington State, they don't take
the grandparents' income into consideration. They're looking at the
child's income which is typically zero. Now if the child does receive
Social Security from a deceased parent or something like that it would
be a different situation. But typically the child has no income and so
the money is for the child. So they receive the cash and then they
receive a medical coupon.

We're also able to access daycare if we're working 20 hours or more, and
WIC for kids 0 to 5. So those are some of the things -- Head Start is
another thing that we can access, because again it's based on the
child's income and they look at the child as a family of one. And so we
all qualify for Head Start generally.

Louise Gill: Yes, okay. Can you speak a little bit -- this is Louise by
the way, I'm sorry for all of you out there.

Woman: Okay.

Louise Gill: Kristie, can you speak to some of the legal issues that
you've run across with families raising their grandchildren?

Kristie Lund: Sure. If -- as I said the majority of us got our kids
outside of the child welfare community so either the parents left them
and didn't come back or, you know, some similar situation that the state
wasn't really involved. So then the legal issue becomes, do you have the
right to get these children into school? Do you have the right to get
medical care? Those are the two big ones.

And in order to do that, there're several different things you can do.
To apply for the financial services, you don't really need to have legal
custody if you have the child in your home but for medical, especially
for anesthesia, if the kids needs tubes in their ears or something like
that, they really want a parental signature. And if you don't have some
type of custody a lot of times you can't get the medical thing done.

So in Washington State, we have what's called third party custody which
is a court process of filing documents. You file a petition. You have to
serve the parents. And it can be about a year long process towards
getting the custody. Most often, the parents don't show up if you do
manage to get them served and so you get it by default. And that can
actually be like in maybe six months.

But it is a process. You can do it yourself. I did. But it depends on
how complicated your situation is.

Louise Gill: So this is Louise again. So if you have a child that needs
emergency health care like, you know, ears or whatever.

Kristie Lund: Right.

Louise Gill: If you were to go to the emergency room, would they refuse
service to the child because you don't have legal custody?

Kristie Lund: Well not emergency service.

Louise Gill: Okay.

Kristie Lund: And usually when you get tubes put in that's not an
emergency thing. It's something that's planned.

Louise Gill: Oh, okay.

Kristie Lund: Yes, and in Washington State, we have what's called a
medical consent form that the legislature passed our ability to use that
a couple of years ago. And it basically says that you are the caregiver
for this child and that you swear you are and the medical community here
in Washington has agreed to accept that.

So if they don't have legal custody and they do have a situation where
they need to get treatment and they're being refused for something, they
can use this medical consent form.

Louise Gill: Okay.

Kristie Lund: That's here in Washington. I don't know about other
states.

Louise Gill: Okay, but if you lived in another state, where would you
think you could ask for that? At the local TANF or public assistance
department?

Kristie Lund: Yes. I would try the local TANF office is you needed it.

Louise Gill: Okay. You made a comment earlier to say that most states
are not pro-grandparents or relatives raising their grandchildren. Can
you speak to that?

Kristie Lund: In regards to foster care?

Louise Gill: Yes.

Kristie Lund: Yes. Well I think it's because the child welfare system,
foster care is so over burdened anyway, that if there are relatives
available, well they're mandate -- they're legally mandated to place
with relatives first if it's a suitable home, and if they can do that
without having to create foster parents out of the relatives, then it's
a huge money saving adventure. So that's my guess.

Because I know most of the time if they place with relatives there's not
-- the relatives don't become foster parents generally, very seldom, nor
do they adopt.

Louise Gill: Okay. Are there any more -- are there any questions out in
the telephone land?

Coordinator: Thank you. Our first question comes from (Rob Callebini).
You may ask your question.

(Rob Callebini): Hi. This is (Rob). I'm just curious if you guys had any
experience or you've had any research out there of grandfathers raising
children?

Kristie Lund: You know, not specifically grandfathers. I don't think
there's any data on it but they certainly are out there. I've met some.
I know they're out there. I was married so I had a grandfather involved.
He's still very involved. We're just not married. But I know single
grandfathers as well. I don't think there's any data on it.

All of this issue is basically very new and so probably I think '96 was
the last point of reference they usually go to before the 2000 census.
And kinship care or grandparents raising grandchildren jumped, like, 60%
in four years. So it's new and it's been difficult to track.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Jackie Seller).
You may ask your question.

(Jackie Seller): Yes, you mentioned that you have a support group that
you're active with and one of -- we live over in Kitsap County and there
is nothing here. There were a few start ups but they have not continued.
How would you suggest going about getting such a group going and then
sustaining it?

Kristie Lund: Well they're not easy. I'll say that right up front. It's
-- I initially started out actually at my Head Start unit where my
granddaughter went to school and there were -- I was also part -- a
community liaison for the state at that time through their DSCF office
so I had a very good program manager that knew I really wanted to do a
support group. So we sat down with Head Start and I started my group in
a Head Start unit. And we had probably five families within that unit.

And that's how I started. And I started with a very small grant from the
National Caregivers Act. The states receive money from that every year.
And it's usually distributed by the Triple As. And it's a granting
process. So I think I started -- I started with that and then I had a
United Way grant. Again, a very small venture grant from United Way.

And then I -- and all this time was affiliated with the agency which was
(Kent) Youth and Family Services that (prompted) a Head Start unit or
had the contract for the Head Start unit. So once my grants ran out,
(Kent) Youth and Family picked it up. And I was able to get the support
groups through them.

So it's good to be affiliated with -- I know you guys are all Head
Start, so whoever -- I don't know what the word is -- sponsors your Head
Start unit, and as far as having a physical agent for small grants, I
haven't had funding for the last two years because of budget cuts here,
so -- and I still do my group. We do potluck. I have key club members
that do childcare. And my folks still come.

You can do it that way. I think initially the outreach to get the group
together is the -- probably the most difficult part, is just letting
folks know it's there. I think there is -- I'm -- when you say Kitsap
County it rang a bell but I don't -- I'd have to look and see.

(Jackie Seller): Yes, there was a group through Compassionate Care.

Kristie Lund: That's it.

(Jackie Seller): Yes, and I talked with her and she said that people
were more interested in one on one rather then group but I just think
that the group would be so helpful.

Kristie Lund: It really is. And a lot of times, you know, I have to
agree with her, I probably get, oh, five times as many phone calls as
actual people that ever show up at my group, and doing -- wanting the
one on one. I think once they come to the group and see what the group's
about that is really what's the hook.

You know, once they're there then they realize that there're a lot of
people or -- like I only have maybe seven to ten regular folks, so
mine's pretty small, but that there are people out there doing the same
thing they're doing.

There's a lot of information to be garnered. I provide speakers. I do
curriculum. We do fun things. Once they see that, then they're more
likely to continue to come.

(Jackie Seller): Yes, I was wondering about how you structured it. I've
written a grant and I haven't heard back, that was -- that I thought
about doing, you know, like half kind of support group and half
informational.

Kristie Lund: Right and that's the perfect mix I think and that's what I
do. Sometimes it's all support and no information.

((Crosstalk))

(Jackie Seller): Yes, well whatever the group needs, yes.

Kristie Lund: Exactly, exactly. And then once you get, you know, a core
group of maybe four or five families, you can see if the time and day
works for them. All my caregivers I think except one, we also work. So
we do an evening meeting. But Casey Family Programs where I work, they
do a group meeting in the daytime at noon and these caregivers are all
retired.

(Jackie Seller): Yes, so like it would depend on what the makeup of the
group is too.

Kristie Lund: Right, right.

(Jackie Seller): Yes.

Kristie Lund: And there's lots of good information on the Web about
starting support groups. I just downloaded something today off -- one of
the resources that's at the end of that Power Point from the Kinship
Network has got, oh, it's probably a 40 page training manual on support
groups for kinship caregivers.

(Jackie Seller): Oh, excellent.

Kristie Lund: So yes. I haven't looked at it yet but they -- what they
did was compile information from several sources that I also have, so
I'm betting it's a good one.

(Jackie Seller): Okay, great. Thank you.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Susanna Lopez).
You may ask your question.

(Susanna Lopez): Hi Kristie. I have a question about legal forms. What
kind of legal forms should the grandparent or any foster parent should
-- I'm sorry -- should be providing to the -- any Head Start or public
school agencies?

Kristie Lund: Well, some type of custody -- a custody decrees. It's -- I
don't know what state you're in, but in Washington if you go through the
third party custody, at the end of it you'll get a custody decree that's
a certified copy of what's in your file. And that's usually what I'm
asked to show if I\...

(Susanna Lopez): I'm in Washington and we had a situation at one point
where a parent, a foster parent, had a child but never provided any
parenting planning at all and the social worker that was working with
this child declined any kind of information to pass (out). Is that legal
to decline that information to the (Head Start) agencies?

Kristie Lund: I have no idea.

(Susanna Lopez): Okay.

Kristie Lund: I have no idea because foster care is a whole other ball
of wax, so to speak. And I don't know about their rules and regulations
too much.

(Susanna Lopez): So the grandfath -- the kinship part is different then
foster completely?

Kristie Lund: Very much so, very much so.

(Susanna Lopez): Okay, thank you.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question is from (Jeannie Kishbaum).
You may ask your question.

Woman: Hello?

Coordinator: (Jeannie), your line is open. Please check your mute
button.

(Jeannie Kishbaum): I have a question on income eligibility.

Kristie Lund: Uh-huh.

(Jeannie Kishbaum): When a grandparent comes in, you were mentioning
that you only count the grandparent grant when a grandparent comes in to
apply to the Head Start program? Is that correct?

Kristie Lund: Well at least in my case, when I came in to apply, they
only counted the child's income. So in my case the child's income was
the TANF money.

(Jeannie Kishbaum): Okay, because that is something new that I've never
heard of.

Louise Gill: This is Louise.

(Jeannie Kishbaum): Okay Louise.

Louise Gill: Can I respond to that?

(Jeannie Kishbaum): Yes.

Louise Gill: Yes, that is correct. When a foster care parent or a
grandparent raising a grandchild comes in, you do not have to count any
income from those foster parents or those grandparents. You count that
child as a family of one. And if it's a foster care family, you count
what the foster care parent is receiving from the state for that child's
grant.

If it's a grandparent, you don't count anything because they don't get
any kind of financial services for that child and you count it as a zero
income and they qualify categorically because they are considered a
foster care child.

(Jeannie Kishbaum): Okay. I just haven't seen any memorandum or anything
on that.

Louise Gill: It -- Kristie -- I mean\...

(Jeannie Kishbaum): Because for instance, we can have a grandparent that
makes \$50,000 a year.

Louise Gill: Right. You don't count their income.

(Jeannie Kishbaum): Yes, and see in our state the grandparent grant does
not come out of the (TAFFI) grant. It's a different -- it's a whole
different budget.

Louise Gill: Well then you need to clarify, does this grant -- see, in
most states the grandparents don't receive any financial assistance.

Kristie Lund: Well or they're -- just to -- sorry Louise -- or they
receive a TANF grant but it's, the chi -- the TANF grant is for the
child only.

Louise Gill: Right.

Kristie Lund: The grandparents aren't included on it so when my
granddaughter started Head Start when she was 3-1/2, they just looked at
that TANF grant, so her income was \$349 a month.

(Jeannie Kishbaum): Okay, all right. So we count it as zero income so
they're actually considered income eligible like foster placement, SSI.

Kristie Lund: Yes.

Woman: Exactly.

(Jeannie Kishbaum): Okay. I didn't know that.

Woman: Yes.

(Jeannie Kishbaum): Okay, thank you.

Kristie Lund: You're welcome.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Miniya Shifera).
You may ask your question.

(Miniya Shifera): Yes, my question may be for -- I think some part of
this is only (unintelligible). What happens sometimes a parent trouble
or goes (unintelligible) for an extended period of time and leave the
child with the grandparent, especially in (unintelligible) communities,
that is common. When they leave -- you know, they're in trouble or they
will go for some time.

And the grandparent will bring the child to a program to sign up. And
when they check income, you have a hard time because we can't say a
grandparent. We are really the grandparent but we need to check the
parent -- the household income. The parents are not there and the
grandparent is (unintelligible) the child. The child is in need. The
parents are not here. So we have a problem there so what do we do about
it?

Louise Gill: Kristie, do you\...

Kristie Lund: I'm going to let you have that one. I don't know.

Louise Gill: Okay, (Miniya), you would treat this just like what Kristie
was saying before. You would count it as a child of one, family of one,
and that child has no income. And so they are categorically eligible for
the program even though the parent is coming back. At the time of
enrollment, it's the grandparents who have the custody, whether it's
legal or not. And so you would count that child as a family as one and a
zero income and they would be categorically eligible for the program.

(Miniya Shifera): Okay. I don't know what kind of -- Louise, I take your
word for it.

Louise Gill: Don't do that.

(Miniya Shifera): But I don't -- I -- what is the relationship between
-- I don't know. I don't know anything except the parent told me that
this is my grandchild.

Louise Gill: Right and\...

(Miniya Shifera): We don't know. There's no paperwork necessary.

Louise Gill: Right, and so (Miniya), we're not -- we don't have to have
any paperwork. We just go on the word of the parent, whether it be the
grandparents, whether it be a neighbor coming in and saying the parents
are gone. I've been left with this child but I want to get him in to
Head Start, and so we really just go on the -- what the parents or
grandparents or neighbor or whomever, what they're saying.

(Miniya Shifera): Okay.

Louise Gill: Because that child needs our program more then maybe some
other child at this point.

(Miniya Shifera): Oh, wonderful. Thank you.

Louise Gill: Yes.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Maryann Ford). You
may ask your question.

(Maryann Ford): Hey, I think the last question may have answered my
question but I was just wanting to confirm, when we have parents enroll
or other relatives, aunts, uncles without legal custody, in the past
we've mandated that they have some kind of court papers to show they're
guardianship in a legal status. And am I hearing right?

And how can I find the research on that to show that when the
grandparents -- a lot of times in Alaska, the grandparents will just
take the grandkids if the children are in need of that and they won't
have any legal paperwork to show that the kids are in the grandparents
care. And maybe you can guide me on how I can start looking at that.

Louise Gill: Kristie, do you want me to take it?

Kristie Lund: Yes.

Louise Gill: Okay, what I would do is there is nothing in the
performance standards. If you go back and read, there's nothing that
says you have to have legal paperwork when a parent is enrolling their
child into Head Start.

So but if you want more of an answer that you feel like you would be
comfortable with, I suggest that you contact your program specialist and
you get the word from the regional offices as to what the regulation is.

This is really -- with the new reauthorization and even the
authorization that we had until December, there is nothing in there that
says we have to have legal paperwork. We just want -- we know that these
kids are in need and we just have to trust that what the parents are
saying to us is the truth. And so but for further clarification I would
advise that you contact your program specialist. Did that help
(Maryann)?

(Maryann Ford): Yes, thank you.

Kristie Lund: Well done, Louise. Well done.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Kim Davis). You
may ask your question.

(Kim Davis): Hi, this one's primarily for Louise. A couple of questions
I have. One is for purposes of the PIR, in reporting foster children,
are these children considered foster children even if they're not
legally adopted by relatives?

Louise Gill: (Kim), yes. The (unintelligible) foster care involves -- we
have so many, as Kristie said earlier -- we're getting more and more
grandparents, aunts and uncles, sisters, you know, relatives, cousins,
raising their relatives that with clarification from the office of Head
Start, there's been nothing written. It's not in writing yet but if this
child is considered homeless and this child is considered foster care.

(Kim Davis): Okay, you answered both my questions because the next one
was the homelessness.

Louise Gill: Right.

(Kim Davis): Okay, great. Thank you Louise.

Louise Gill: Uh-huh.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Paula Smith). You
may ask your question.

Excuse me, our next question comes from (Paula Smith). You may ask your
question. Ma'am, your line is open. Please ask your question.

(Paula Smith): Our question was answered. Thank you.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Susan Lopez). You
may ask your question.

(Susan Lopez): Hi Kristie. You were talking earlier about the legal
paperwork and the performance standards not having any kind of -- any
information requesting from the parents. What would you suggest or what
can we do at the Head Start agency to protect ourselves because if a
parent were to come back and request and ask questions why her child was
enrolled and we don't have legal information, what can we do then?

Kristie Lund: Well, we have -- and I was looking on the Web as you all
were talking trying to find it -- there's a temporary for parental
consent form that we advise folks to use if they're not going to go
through a whole legal proceeding.

And basically it just says that the parent gives consent for now to the
relative making the decision then it's got a clause that this can be
revoked within seven days of written notice or something, something.

(Susan Lopez): Do you know where we could obtain that form?

Kristie Lund: I can send a copy of it to Louise. How about that?

(Susan Lopez): Okay, and I just sent an email to (unintelligible). My
last question, well for now, do you know where that we could find the
performance standards actual ri -- stating that we don't need legal
documentation from grandparents?

Kristie Lund: That's you Louise.

Louise Gill: It\...

Woman: Thank you Louise.

Louise Gill: The reason I say it's not there, it's not there. If you
look at definitions of parents and families and that kind of thing it
just -- it's not in the performance standards so.

(Susan Lopez): Okay.

Louise Gill: If your program is saying that you have to have legal
paperwork then that is a program policy.

(Susan Lopez): Okay.

Louise Gill: That is something that your program is saying to protect
themselves.

(Susan Lopez): Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that because we were
going to look for it in the performance standards.

Louise Gill: It's not there, so.

(Susan Lopez): Okay, thank you.

Louise Gill: And we have so many regulations around this issue that are
not in performance standards but programs are putting it into their own
policies for protection and for best practices.

(Susan Lopez): Okay, thank you. That does answer my question because we
had concerns about that, what if the parent were to come back and not
having the legal forms.

Louise Gill: But just know that you cannot keep that child -- really you
shouldn't keep that child from being enrolled because you don't have the
paperwork.

(Susan Lopez): Right. Okay so we can obtain this form from you, right
Louise?

Louise Gill: Yes, the temporary consent. Kristie's going to send it to
me and I will get it out.

(Susan Lopez): I just sent you an email requesting -- about the Power
Point because we weren't able to get on anything so I'll send you one
right afterwards.

Louise Gill: Okay, thanks.

(Susan Lopez): You're welcome.

Kristie Lund: That could be because it's in Publisher '07 and not
everybody has that so that could be the problem.

Man: We'll get it. Thank you.

Kristie Lund: Okay.

Coordinator: Thank you. Again if you'd like to ask a question today,
please press star 1 on the touchtone of your phone. Again, that's
star 1. One moment please. Ma'am at this time I have no further
questions in queue.

Louise Gill: Thank you (Dennis). This is Louise again. Kristie, before I
let you go, because this has just been wonderful to help us, we as Head
Start staff, what tips as you've been through Head Start with your
grandchildren and you've been through the whole process and you kind of
know how Head Start and (ECap) run and Early Head Start, could you give
you give us any tips as far as working with foster parents and
grandparents or relatives raising their children?

Kristie Lund: That's a good question. I had great teachers and family
advocates and actually my little guy is just finishing up. He'll
graduate in June for kindergarten.

Louise Gill: Oh, okay.

Kristie Lund: Well, I'm still doing it. But when my granddaughter --
I'll relay my experience -- when my granddaughter went to Head Start I
had, up to that point, stayed at home with her for the last couple of
years, and they really encouraged me at Head Start to join the parent
group, the parent -- what do they call it -- the parent board, the
parent board which I did because I was a stay at home person. I had some
time.

And then I went from that to policy council. And just those two
activities I really attribute a lot of my being able to go ahead and
start the support group and feeling good about who I was and what I was
doing and not being ashamed of it.

So the support I had around them asking me to join these things and
telling me what a valuable asset I would be to that because of my
experience really encouraged me to do those things and by doing them,
then I was able to go on and look at me know. You know?

Louise Gill: Yes, wonderful.

Kristie Lund: You all unleashed it. But anyway, so I guess just to be
encouraging. A lot of times we've got a lot on our plate, you know,
between the kids and the adult parents, I mean adult children, and
whatever social services we're all caught up in. You know, I think
that's just -- I don't have anything specific because my folks were
always great and were just so encouraging and very compassionate and
understanding of the situation and not prying but there was a listening
ear if I wanted to talk about what was going on, and, which really
encouraged me to do it and some of us do need to talk about it, you
know, and we haven't gotten the support group, so.

Louise Gill: Right, right. That's great. Just another bit of information
for everyone on the call this morning -- since I work with most of you
and in families and communities, I wanted to remind everybody that if
you do have foster care children where they are truly in a foster care
situation, those foster care parents have to do a family plan.

And so when you're trying to get a family partnership agreement with
those families, just know that if you ask them for their family care
plan, there will be goals in that family care plan that are for those
foster care children and those families.

Things like, if they're in foster care, they have to be in some type of
educational program, so there you go. There's a goal right there. And so
sometimes I feel like we're recreating the wheel trying to get family
partnership agreements but they're right under our nose. We just don't
know what to ask the families for.

So if they truly are foster care parents, receiving a grant from the
state and the child's been placed in their home, you have a family
partnership agreement already done for you. You just need to use the
right language I think sometimes with these families.

Like Kristie said, there's so much going on, there're so many legal
issues, there're so many agencies you're working with and sometimes
parents don't even realize what they've got and we in Head Start need to
be just a little more well versed in all the different kinds of goal
setting and goal plans that other agencies have for these families.

Okay, any other questions?

Coordinator: Excuse me ma'am. Our next question comes from (Evelyn
Wilson). You may ask your question.

(Evelyn Wilson): Hi, this is (Evelyn) from (unintelligible). I'm raising
two grandsons of mine and I've had them for the last six months and I
heard a lady ask several questions about (unintelligible) step of being
just a grandma raising the grandkids without having the state involved.

But the issue turned out to be a situation where I'm now grandma and I'm
going through foster parenting of my grandchildren and the grandparent
in those situations can become a foster parent here in Alaska.

I will be getting a grant for each one of my grandchildren here in
Alaska, \$580 a month. I was really surprised because I really couldn't
deal with the daughter anymore and I just had to -- get my daughter here
back out of my life somehow to where I could be productive in raising
her children without messing up their lives.

So anyway, the state took over the custodianship of my grandchildren and
then asked me to be the foster parent of the grandchildren. So I just
wanted to put that in because I knew there was a lady that asked a
situation as -- of this.

And you just answered my other question because I also have the sister
to my grandson in a foster home and I was wondering what kind of thing
has to be planned out for the family? I know I was told I was supposed
to be able to have these kids but yet the foster mom hasn't gotten a
hold of us.

Kristie Lund: Well, okay. I'm going to try here.

(Evelyn Wilson): Okay.

Kristie Lund: You know, state difference -- differ one to another. I --
and I don't know about Alaska's policies or procedures. I really don't
and I won't pretend that I do. I know here in Washington State it's
difficult to become a foster parent once you already have the children.
And that's just the way it is here. I don't know what's going on up
there.

As far as the child that's still in the foster care system, the state --
it's a federal law that the state look for relatives to place that child
with before they place with a foster parent. If somehow that didn't
happen, obviously not because there you are and the child's not with
you.

(Evelyn Wilson): Well the two -- I -- we couldn't get the sister because
she's got some issues that she had to be put into a differ -- a special
home.

Kristie Lund: Oh, a therapeutic foster home?

(Evelyn Wilson): Yes, a therapeutic home so they had to place here there
and I got the two boys because the two boys are fine. Of course, the --
my grandson is in Head Start so this all comes together with all the
questions people are asking.

And my grandson, I had to have -- go around and getting all the
paperwork here in Alaska for the Head Start. Everything that they need,
they -- it was up to me to do all the footwork to getting all the stuff
together for my grandson in Head Start. So\...

Kristie Lund: Is your granddaughter able to be removed from the
therapeutic foster home or does she still need special attention?

(Evelyn Wilson): Well, she just went into the therapeutic transition.
We've were given -- in fact, the state of Alaska had asked my daughter
to voluntarily give up my grand -- give the grandkids for six months
since she became homeless and she hasn't been able to provide stability
for the kids since they were born.

And I had the kids, but however, since I was -- my daughter kept
bothering me and creating such a horrific problem with me, myself as a
mom, just walking all over me and I just couldn't deal with it anymore.
And I went to the State and I said, "I can't do it. You're going to have
to come in and take her kids." I said, "It's really getting hard on me."

So they decided to go ahead and take custody of the kids and once they
took custody they said, "Well, how would you like to be the foster
parent of your grandkids?" (Unintelligible). But, yes, this just
happened within the last month.

Kristie Lund: Right and that -- in the situation you describe, I -- that
could happen here as well. I mean, if we were to walk in and tell them,
you know, I absolutely can't do this anymore, I just can't do it, then
they may step up and that's how we would become a foster parent here as
well.

So I understand a little better now how that happened and I truly -- I
have compassion and empathy with you as far as dealing with your
daughter. I have my daughter's children too and it's very difficult as a
parent.

(Evelyn Wilson): Thank you.

Kristie Lund: You're welcome.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Jessica Clark).
You can ask your question.

(Jessica Clark): Hi. I was wondering, I'm embarrassed to say I joined
the conference late, but I have a lot of people that I work with that
would be interested in a group like this, so is there -- are there more
teleconferences to come or is there handouts from the session that I
could get and pass along to others I work with or any recommendations at
all for other people who would've like to have been part of this but
missed it?

Louise Gill: Yes, this is Louise. There is a Power Point that went out
this morning and we were having some difficulty with some programs being
able to open it. I will post that on the Web page, the Region 10 Web
page, under Family and Community Partnership.

Also in this Power Point there are references or resources of Web pages
that you can go on and then (Kim) -- I mean Kristie -- if you would
share with her some of the stuff that you said about getting a group
started, that might be helpful.

Kristie Lund: Okay. Mainly what I was saying is that there's -- it's not
the easiest thing to do for starters -- there's a lot of outreach that
needs to be done, you know, to get folks to the group. There is -- I
just found this morning on the Web, which looks to be a very promising,
a support group training manual. It talks about how to get -- how things
up and running.

I haven't actually read it but I'm thinking because it's a compilation
of several of the training manuals that I have read that it's probably
pretty good and that's at the Kinship Information Network and their Web
site I can pull up here in a minute. It's on the Power Point.

Louise Gill: Is it the www.kinsupport.org?

Kristie Lund: Right, right, right.

Louise Gill: Okay.

Kristie Lund: That's it, yes. It's right on their front page I think and
it looks to be a very good example and it also lists other folks that
have done work on training manuals for support groups for kinship
caregivers and I think they're all pretty good. It's about -- I think we
-- well one thing we talked about was a balance between information and
support.

(Jessica Clark): Right, okay.

Kristie Lund: And that's pretty much -- that's the way I try to do it.
I'll, you know, bring information but if it looks like the group really
needs to just sit and talk then I'll shell the information and we'll sit
and talk. So, you know, whatever the group really deems necessary.

(Jessica Clark): Right, okay. Okay, well thank you very much.

Kristie Lund: You're welcome.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Paula Smith). You
may ask your question. (Paula), your line is open.

(Paula Smith): Okay. My -- our question is, if a child -- just to
clarify -- if a child is living with say an aunt and uncle or other
relative and the parent's not in the household but they don't receive
any assistance through the state for that child, then we only count that
child's income or would we count the aunt and uncle's income?

Kristie Lund: Go ahead Louise.

Louise Gill: This is Louise. You would -- that child is considered
foster care or homeless and you would count that child only as a family
of one and they would be categorically eligible and they would have a
zero income.

(Paula Smith): Under McKinney Vinto, they're not homeless because they
don't match our regular nighttime residence, right?

Louise Gill: Well, but what is regular? You know, we don't know if the
parents might come back tomorrow or they're going to be with this family
for awhile. So you might want to talk to your program specialist if you
still have questions on that.

(Paula Smith): Okay, thank you.

Kristie Lund: You know, just in respect to that too I can comment that
as far as public education goes, our kids do qualify from McKinney
Vinto.

Louise Gill: Right.

Kristie Lund: So you may want to -- yes -- as you said Louise, you may
want to check with your program people about it but I know generally
here in King County, our kids do count for that.

(Paula Smith): Right, okay. Thank you.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Sandra DeAngelo).
You may ask your question.

(Sandra DeAngelo): Hi. This is (Sandra DeAngelo) at Mountain State's
Early Head Start in Coeur d'Alene. And we actually have -- and it's not
-- I shouldn't say "we," I'm part of a kincare committee for Kootenai
County. And how that got started was a very strong advocate who was the
grandma raising her two grandchildren, and also Health and Welfare is
strongly involved.

In fact, the Health and Welfare Navigator Cares, that committee, and
they have a very active relatives as parents support group. They've done
some pretty active things and they are actually a member of the kincare
committee, the statewide kincare committee.

And most recently, they went under a local non-profit 501C301, the
Kootenai County Alliance for Children and Families, so now they have
also the 501C3 status through that organization and are able to apply
for grants. So they've actually in the last month, we've been able to
apply for three grants.

Kristie Lund: That's great and that's really the kind of
(unintelligible) needs to be affiliated with an agency that has a 501C3
that can be an umbrella agency for you so that you can get going on your
feet.

(Sandra DeAngelo): Yes, we're actu -- we did our strategic planning
yesterday and we're actually looking at doing a kincare mini conference.

Kristie Lund: Good for you, perfect.

Woman: I think so.

Louise Gill: And this is Louise. And would you make sure that I get all
that information so I can put it out on the Web and everybody will know
about it?

(Sandra DeAngelo): Sure.

Louise Gill: Thank you.

Kristie Lund: And I sent you the temporary custody form, Louise.

Louise Gill: Great, and I'll get that out to everybody, the temporary
consent.

Kristie Lund: Right.

Louise Gill: Of custody.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Maryellen Fritz).
You may ask your question.

(Maryellen Fritz): Hey, I just wanted to just thank you for this
incredible conference. We didn't quite know what we were signing up for
but we knew we had a bunch of grandparents that were raising their
grandkids and it's been so insightful. And I'm going to work with our
Region 11 TNTA office, but where I really see a need is for distance
training by teleconference for teachers on how to help children who are
going through something like this to let them know that they're okay
and, you know, because they're living with their grandparents, their
self-esteem and, you know, so they don't doubt themselves. And that
would be a really great training to have. Thanks Louise.

Louise Gill: Thank you (Maryellen) and I'll pass that word along.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from Ms. (Hadley). You
may ask your question.

(Berta Hadley): Hi, this is (Berta Hadley) from Pope (Tella) Head Start.
I would just like one more time to have some clarification on what is
considered homeless and zero income, if you could just do that one more
time for us. Okay?

Louise Gill: Well, and let me just first say that I will be glad to send
out the definition from the McKinney Vinto at saying what homeless is.
So I will put that out after this call. And then I -- for Head Start
purposes, let me just say this, the philosophy in Head Start is that we
want to get all children that are either being raised by a foster care
parent or a relative, whether they have legal custody or not, they are
the neediest of the needy.

And we want to get them in the program. So they are categorically
eligible. So if you have a grandparent or a relative that has custody,
whether it's legal or whatever, they just come in and say, "This child's
living with me." They are considered not in a permanent residence. They
are considered basically homeless because we don't know when the family,
the parents are going to come back or if they ever will.

So we would enroll them as categorically eligible as a family of one. We
would not look at the guardian or the parents or whomever is taking care
of them, we would not look at their income. We would say they have an
income of zero and we would get them enrolled in the program. Did that
answer?

(Berta Hadley): Yes.

Louise Gill: Okay.

(Berta Hadley): Okay, thank you.

Louise Gill: Yes.

Coordinator: Thank you. Our next question comes from (Lorenzo Garzey).
You may ask your question.

(Lorenzo Garzey): Hi Louise and Kristie.

Woman: Hi Lorenzo. How are you?

(Lorenzo Garzey): This is (Lorenzo) at Washington State
(unintelligible). Two questions, and one definitely for Kristie and the
other one maybe Louise will answer this one. But is the kinship
navigator program still assessable?

Woman: Very much.

(Lorenzo Garzey): And the other question is, Louise or Kristie, help me
clarify this. Earlier we were talking about state versus kinship and
help me understand if I heard the right thing. If the state has the
custody of the child and has provided it to foster parent, do we need to
go through their state social worker for everything or can we go through
the parent, foster parent?

Louise Gill: Kristie, do you want me to answer that or?

Kristie Lund: Yes dear. I have no idea.

Louise Gill: (Lorenzo), it's my understanding that we can take the word
of the foster parent.

(Lorenzo Garzey): Okay.

Louise Gill: So whatever the foster parent -- but it's always a great
idea to partner with the case work working with that foster parent. So
if I were doing this, I would ask the foster parent if she would agree
to let me talk to the person at child welfare that is working with her
so that we can all be on the same page and we can all partner together.

(Lorenzo Garzey): Okay. Thank you. That clarified it and I think that
was the question -- (Susanna) was talking about legal, you know, forms
we needed and I think it clarified some of that.

Louise Gill: Okay, great. Good to hear from you.

(Lorenzo Garzey): Kristie, is that kinship navigator program still
available?

Kristie Lund: It is. It is very much so. What area of the state are you
in?

(Lorenzo Garzey): Yakima County. Well, (statewide) actually but now
we're out of Yakima.

Kristie Lund: Yes, (Mary Clager) is still the navigator over there.

(Lorenzo Garzey): All right, thank you. And thanks for all the great
information.

Kristie Lund: Catholic Services or something like that? Catholic
Services?

(Lorenzo Garzey): Right.

Kristie Lund: Yes.

(Lorenzo Garzey): Thank you.

Louise Gill: Kristie, for everyone else, can you explain what the
navigator -- because it may only be in Washington. Is that true?

Kristie Lund: No, it's not only in Washington.

Louise Gill: Okay.

Kristie Lund: I think New Jersey and Ohio and I don't know all the
states that have them now. They started on the East coast. But what it
is, we -- Casey Family Programs piloted the first navigator program here
in Washington State. It was an 18-month pilot of one person that could
help direct all kinship caregivers to the resources that they need.

And it was here in King County so most of the work she did was local.
And then out of that came an evaluation and a model was written. The
state picked it up and so now they fund, I believe we're up to seven
navigators in Washington State, with a goal of at least 13 and that
would be one in each of the Triple A, the Area on Agency -- oh, what are
the -- how did they break it down? You know, the areas of the state.
There's 13 triple -- or Double As, Area on Agenc -- on Aging in the
state.

And we would like one, at least one, in every one. Right now we're up to
seven in the state. And in King County, we have the one navigator, but
most of us support group leaders are navigators as well. Most of us all
know, we've come together through the Kinship Collaboration as an
advisory council to that collaboration, and we all share all our
information. So any one of us, of the seven -- I think there're seven of
us -- support group leaders could navigate as well.

So it's a project that's been modeled, you know, across the nation in
several different states and it's a great way to get started to
centralized services so that at least one person knows everything
available to a kinship caregiver in that area.

Louise Gill: And the name of that again?

Kristie Lund: Ours is called kinship navigator.

Louise Gill: Kingship navigator.

Kristie Lund: Yes.

Louise Gill: And can that be found on the Casey Web page or?

Kristie Lund: It can. Yes, casey.org. I think the replication model and
the evaluation are on there. And if not, Louise, let me know. I have
them.

Louise Gill: Okay.

Coordinator: Thank you. At this time, I show no further questions in
queue ma'am.

Louise Gill: All right. Okay, Kristie, I just want to thank you so much
for being on the call with us today. I'm sure after this is done we'll
have more questions and do you want the questions to come to me and I
will get those to you? Is that okay?

Kristie Lund: That's fine.

Louise Gill: Or, yes, and just know that Kristie is at the Casey Family
Programs.

Kristie Lund: Seattle office.

Louise Gill: The Seattle office.

Kristie Lund: Yes.

Louise Gill: And if there're not anymore questions.

Kristie Lund: Well, thanks so much for having me Louise. It's been a
pleasure. I love to talk about kinship care.

Louise Gill: Well, thank you so much and you've just been a wealth of
knowledge for us. So next month will be -- for the conference call from
the TA network -- will be the mental health content area. And that's on
April 9th and so all of you will be getting a notice about that.

And I will get out the information that we talked about today as much as
I can, the stuff that you didn't get, and it will be posted on our Web
page, plus the transcripts from today's meeting in case you came in late
or you were not able to attend and have some staff people you'd like to
give that too.

So I'm going to sign off and I want to thank everybody for participating
today.

Kristie Lund: Thank you Louise.

Louise Gill: Thank you Kristie. Good bye everyone.

END