**CORRECTIVE READING**

Darion Griffin: Good morning. I want to add my welcome to those that
you\'ve heard. On behalf of the American Federation of Teachers, we\'re
honored to continue our advocacy and support for improved practice in
research-based reading instruction by co-sponsoring this series of very,
very important seminars on adolescent literacy and practice and to
benefit from the perspectives of practitioners. I think that will be, as
we set the research agenda, a very key component and so this is a very,
very important second step in our series.

This session will focus on a model, corrective reading, which is a
Direct Instruction model and Cathy Bardo from the Sacramento City
Unified District will be talking about that, describing the model and
its use for about 15 minutes. As moderator I will be a timekeeper, also,
both with Cathy but also with our three respondents who each will have
10 minutes to give their perspectives, ask questions of Cathy and then
we will open up this session to entertain questions from you. We hope
that it will be, as Peggy said, very interactive so that we can gain the
full benefit of your expertise and your knowledge.

I think, for logistics sake, it would be terrific if each of our
panelists, respondents, would come up and just sort of be seated \--
John Guthrie from the University of Maryland, Alba Ortiz from the
University of Texas-Austin, and Paul Worthington, who is with the
Lindamood-Bell Learning Processes. Immediately after Cathy\'s
presentation they will go in whatever order they would like to respond.

Thank you. Cathy?

Cathy Bardo: OK. Good morning, everyone. I\'m here from Sacramento,
California, home of the Sacramento Kings. That\'s all I\'m going to say
about that and since we\'re on the bullet train of presentations here, a
15-minute presentation, I\'m going to move right into the facts.

I\'d like to give you a little overview of the Sacramento City Unified
School District. It\'s a large, urban school district, 53,000 students K
through 12 and 20,000 students 7 through 12. There\'s great diversity in
language, culture and SES in our district and in 2001 more than 4500
secondary students were enrolled in intensive reading intervention
programs in our district and the target criteria for placing them
initially was bottom\-- performance in the bottom quartile of the
Stanford 9 Achievement Test and then, of course, they were administered
a placement test for the particular reading level they needed to go
into.

At Goethe Middle School in 1998 at the start of the project I was the
principal there and I had been principal at Goethe for three years at
that point. We had 850 students and 80 percent were reading below grade
level, 50 percent three or more years below grade level.

We were a Title I\-- they still are a Title I, school-wide Title I
program. The African-American and Hispanic students were making the
suspension rolls while the white\-- the very small population of white
and a larger population of the Asian students were making the honor
roll.

We knew that we had to face our failure and we knew we needed to do
something about it, so we went looking\-- we went looking for a model
program for reading intervention and we partnered with our county office
of education, Sacramento County. We chose a research-based model. We got
in touch with Dr. Bonnie Grossen, University of Oregon, who represents
Corrective Reading Programs. She came and spoke to our staff and she
convinced our teachers that was what we needed to do in our school in
order to improve the reading success of our students.

All teachers made a commitment to teach one period of reading each day
and that was in place of the students\' electives. Students still took
their language arts class in addition to the reading class, but all
students were tested and placed in a particular level of the Corrective
Reading Program, which created some major changes in scheduling and in
class size, limiting electives, obviously, and a commitment for three
years.

Specifically, Corrective Reading consists of three parts, basically,
three programs \-- the decoding program, comprehension program and
reasoning and writing. And at Goethe at the time we chose a
single-strand sequence, which simply means that students were placed in
a particular level \-- say they were placed in the decoding level. They
moved and progressed through each level into comprehension C and then
into reasoning and writing E and F.

In decoding they worked with very controlled decodable texts in the
lowest levels of decoding. Systematic correction, which helps save time
and keeps students moving through the material and learning the material
quickly made it easier for the teacher to deliver the information. At
the end of B1 they were reading complex passages of 90 words a minute
and the material in the decoding programs, I need to add, counters
guessing strategy of disabled readers by using unpredictable text.

In the B2 level, it was building fluency and accuracy, offering more
interesting stories, of course, with increased vocabulary knowledge.
Comprehension was integrated more into the B2 level. At the end of B2,
students should be reading at 110 words a minute and reading short,
multi-syllabic words.

In decoding C they apply their skills to outside reading. They build
word knowledge and they learn to comprehend more difficult passages and
expository text. At the end of C, the student\'s reading 130 words a
minute and sustaining that for five minutes.

In comprehension, the students learn background knowledge, vocabulary,
thinking strategies to get at expository text, big ideas, reasoning,
analysis and\-- within a content-rich context.

In reasoning and writing they study persuasive, descriptive and other
expository forms of writing. It introduces research skills, critiques
contradictions\-- critiques\-- they learn critiques in contradictions,
inconsistencies and improbable outcomes and finally they learn inductive
reasoning and inquiry.

Some teaching techniques for this program are: the presentation is
scripted and that controls detail. It\'s not to make it robot-like or
militaristic as it has sometimes been described, but it\'s to sequence
the tasks and instruction, the number and types of examples for the
students so that they\'re learning those discrete skills and then
applying them to larger contexts and a variety of contexts.

There\'s a format that\'s followed. The directions and wording are the
same, so that helps act as a prompt for applying the skill learned to
new examples. The corrections that are made are general and\-- they\'re
general and specific and they\'re delivered in a certain way. All of
this is designed to accelerate the students through the material
quickly.

Pacing is very important. The slower one moves through the material the
less memory is involved. You want students to remember more, you move
them through quickly, but not at the expense of mastery, I should say.

There are individual turns and positive reinforcements built in.
Students chart their own progress and they earn points for reduced
errors, so that helps them succeed.

Another big piece of the program is staff development and in the area of
staff development, there\'s three types of training that we do \--
teachers, coaches and administrators. The teachers go through a three or
two-day training in the particular program level that they\'re going to
teach and they actually do it in a practicum setting. So the teacher
trainees go into the Goethe classrooms and work with the students using
the program. An expert teacher models it first, demonstrates and then
the participants go in and practice.

The coaches participate in a five-day training and they go in and\-- go
into the classrooms right along with the new trainees and they practice
coaching while the trainee is practicing teaching the program to the
Goethe students. To be a coach you need to have taught the reading
program successfully for at least one year and there\'s followup
training offering quarterly in a partnership with our county office of
education so that the teachers and coaches can network with each other
throughout the Northern California region.

The administrators receive an awareness training. We encourage them to
go through a part of the program so that they can support the
implementation in the classroom.

After the training, we provide in-class coaching that helps keep
fidelity to the model, helps keep the instruction fresh with the
teachers. Because as they go into the classroom and start using the
instruction regularly, many questions come up and this helps answer them
and keep them moving right along.

Experienced reading teachers serve as coaches. They focus mostly on the
teachers new to reading, but we also offer tune-ups for the veterans.

Here\'s a sample of a technical assistance form. I don\'t\-- Yeah, I
guess you can see that pretty well. This is a form that the coaches use
when they go into the classrooms. They keep track, they fill it out and
jot very specific observations and then set goals for the next
observation and actually they meet with the teacher afterward and go
over those goals together.

In progress monitoring, which is another extremely important piece of
the program, there\'s ongoing monthly progress monitoring to check for
student mastery and monthly the teachers submit teacher data to the
district. We prep the reports and we send two reports to the school, one
to the principal, one to the literacy coach. The goal of the progress
monitoring is student mastery, 100 percent of the students at 90 percent
correct, 100 percent of the time. We do monitor coverage but not at the
cost of mastery, as I said before.

And then another part\-- reason for the progress monitoring would be the
interventions, looking at the data and then determining, well, what are
the reasons for the student not being at mastery. Is it academic? Is the
student making too many errors in their reading? Is it attendance, they
haven\'t been in school? Is it behavior? And then the school team making
decisions on what to do next in terms of intervention.

How am I doing on time? Aah! OK. We got to get to the data. Skipping
that. All right.

Let me show you some of the data. Overall Stanford 9 for the whole
district\-- oh, sorry, Stanford 9 for the whole district, focused on the
7 and 8 level, that\'s where the Corrective Reading has been in place
for the longest, from the base year 1998 to 2001, sadly look at those
high school scores and how they dropped, but I think that\'s pretty
indicative across the country that high school is performing at a much
lower rate.

This is the data from Goethe Middle School in pre- and post-tests on the
multi-academic survey test, which tests all levels\-- grade levels
rather than a single grade level such as the SAT-9 tested\-- tests,
excuse me, and the bar on the left indicates the pre-test and the bar on
the right of each set indicates the post. So you see more students
moving out of the lower\-- testing at the lower grade levels and many
more students moving, by the end of the year, up into and around the
seventh grade level, sixth and seventh grade levels.

This is a comparison of the eighth graders\' test scores in the
different levels of Corrective Reading and I\'m just going to let you
kind of look at it and draw some of your own conclusions. There is gain.
It\'s done in NCE, mean NCE. The eighth graders and then when they were
seventh graders. We were\-- these are students at Goethe Middle School.
We\'re assuming they were in the reading program.

One of the things we didn\'t do is take out the students that were new
to the school. That would be something that we would need to further
research on. We realize that. This is just a preliminary look at the
data. We\'re trying to get some ideas about, you know, how to look at it
and to make some determinations on how effective these programs are.

And one more piece of data that I think is very important. This has to
do with our percent of English learners at Goethe Middle School that
were scoring in the bottom quartile of the SAT-9. The colored bar on
that top report indicates that 18 percent moved out of the bottom
quartile. That\'s good; a negative is good. In Sac City Unified, 11
percent moved out compared to the state, only 8 percent moved out of
that bottom quartile. So that was the good news.

The percent of English learners scoring at grade level isn\'t as good a
set of news for us, but it does show an 8 percent improvement in the
number of English learners scoring at grade level from the base year of
1998 to 2001.

One minute. I\'m getting there. This shows the number of students at one
of our high schools that Goethe Middle School feeds to and shows from
1999 to 2000 the numbers that were scoring below the 25th and below the
50th percentile. Below the 25th is in blue and, as you can see, the
numbers are going down, so the good news is that the middle school is
sending better-prepared readers to the high school and everybody\'s
thrilled about that.

Since 1998 there have been 1000 teachers trained through the Goethe
Professional Development Center in Corrective Reading and this has
spread across the state and the state has adopted a program called
REACH, which is really\-- it\'s the Corrective Reading Program expanded
and it\'s been adopted as an approved program for the State of
California for intensive reading intervention for students that are
reading two or more years below grade level.

OK. And further research and then I\'m finished. The pre- and
post-assessment for high schools, we really haven\'t spent a lot of time
looking at our high school students in terms of pre- and post- because
to look at their standardized tests at the ninth and 10th grade level in
a reading program that\'s teaching them the basic skills, it\'s very
hard to see and show growth, you know, on a Stanford-9 test. But we want
to give\-- administer a pre- and post- multi-survey test or some type of
test to indicate is there great gain going on. The whole purpose is to
provide growth in an accelerated manner within one to two year periods.

We need to gather more comparison data and we certainly need to do
further study of our English learners, as we said earlier.

Thank you very much.

John Guthrie: Hello. How are you today? My name is John Guthrie from the
University of Maryland and it is my privilege to comment on this model.

I want to jump right in to the issues because I think we\'re in a very
high-stakes situation. I think I\'m concurring with our earlier
speakers. We need massive improvement of middle school learners. We
need, I think, major transformations in our teaching plans and thinking.
We need, as Dr. McCardle said, effective practices linked to a theory of
processes for reading and reading development.

We received\-- I received a paper by Bonnie Grossen, which is an
excellent paper, somewhat different than the presentation you heard, so
I will be filling in, commenting on the presentation, but also the paper
to a significant degree.

Strengths of what we heard today. We saw a curriculum, fully developed
and administered to large number of students. As a person who is trying
to do the scaling up research, making research work for whole schools, I
can honor this accomplishment. Standardized tests have been
administered, some data have been developed and this is not easy to have
consistent administration of data-collection activities. So they\'ve
certainly created the occasion for lots of research that we can learn
from.

Now I want to ask some questions. I think my job here is to ask
questions and our agenda is to identify the questions that will help us
to move forward in understanding practice more deeply.

My first question would be the following. I\'m going to ask empirical
questions and then theoretical questions.

On the empirical side, what was the intervention? I think it\'s
valuable\-- What Catherine said was more than what the paper said, but
we need to know, what happened in teaching? We can\'t just hear that is
a Corrective Reading model. We can\'t just hear that they taught
decoding and comprehension. Those are good statements.

We need to go much, I think, further beyond that. How much time was
given daily, weekly, monthly? What were the materials like? What was the
implementation quality? We need measures of the quality that the
instruction was being implemented. How well did students perform in
these? Some of these data do exist within the framework that you\'ve
been describing and, in fact, those could be publicized, sort of
communicated outside of your frame.

What kind of school infrastructure is needed to pull of a big program
like this? Do you have reading specialists? Do you have media
specialists? Do you have instructional leaders? What\'s the school
infrastructure? Because a classroom as an island can\'t sustain this
very well for very long.

What skills were learned? We saw that a nice range of skills were
described as portions of the curriculum and they\'re very valuable and
they\'ve been mentioned previously. Which of these were learned by the
students? We need to know, of the skills that were designed for targets
of instruction, which were learned?

Now that\'s easy to ask. I can assure you it\'s not as easy to answer.
The standardized tests don\'t get at them, so we need new measures, of
course, to show us a finer-grained picture. So the question would be,
how much gain is being made on the targeted aspects of instruction?

I would say that we\'re very interested, how much gain did the students
make in the measures that were used? How much gain did students make? I
want to say that we saw, in the paper at least, about two years of gain
per one year of instruction. In one sense, that\'s terrific. That\'s
double the normal efficiency in a certain respect. In another sense, if
a student is at eighth grade reading at third grade level, he won\'t
catch up until 11th grade. How many middle school kids are going to go
through like four years of intensive reading instruction? Not as many as
we might like to hope. So we need, then, to find ways to intensify, to
add, to maybe transform our interventions.

I think \-- how are teachers trained? The way in which teachers are
trained to do this is crucial to our understanding of the model itself.

Comparison data are crucial, as Catherine said. We need to know, OK,
norms are not a control group. We need a control group, but maybe the
schools in the norms didn\'t get any instruction, in which case we have
instruction compared to no instruction. Well, usually instruction wins.
We need Model A compared to Model B, with an understanding of how they
differ systematically so then we can, in fact, learn what counts and
learn what works and then transfer that. So we do need the comparisons
and they are crucial.

I would like to say it\'s almost important, theoretically, and my time
is winding down, but I want to ask a theoretical question, what\'s the
theory behind the model? Now the theory behind this model, which wasn\'t
explicitly described in the paper, but which is carried in the citations
in this research, the theory behind this is, essentially, a behaviorist
model of learning to read.

So you have a bottom-up system, is what people call it. Memic awareness,
letter recognition, word recognition, sentence understanding, paragraph
comprehension, knowledge growth. OK. Bottom-up.

The theory is, people process bottom-up and they learn in a bottom-up
manner. That theory has been seriously challenged in the 1970s. And a
cognitive science with many thousands of strong experiments illustrated
to us an interactive model is much more likely to be true. The
interactive model says there is top-down influence as well as bottom-up
influence that help the learner develop. So how a student understands a
sentence influences how they understand words inside the sentence.

So we have both things working and ideally we would like to have a frame
for teaching that takes account of both things working, of top-down
systems as well as bottom-up systems influencing the learner.

I want to suggest that\-- I believe that in an agenda-setting enterprise
it\'s very important to understand the theory behind the practice,
otherwise we have a hard time transferring and using our effective
practices. I believe that this theoretical base, which emphasizes a
behaviorist frame, is an important one to have at the table and a
valuable one to have in discussion and in the research enterprise. I
also think there are some very different theories that lead to decidedly
alternating and distinguishing forms of teaching that, in fact, ought to
be considered and studied and brought to light in this total endeavor.

Thank you.

Alba Ortiz: Thank you and good morning. I appreciate the opportunity to
be with you this morning. I\'m Alba Ortiz from the University of Texas
at Austin and I know that many of you appreciate the opportunity to be
here because I know that you are likely frustrated by the over-emphasis
we\'ve had in the field on the development of reading in young learners.

I know elementary school teachers are glad that this workshop is being
held because they grieve that middle school and high school teachers
blame them for kids not having developed skills. Of course, parents
think that the elementary teachers blame them and everybody blames the
higher ed personnel.

My comments, actually, are very much like Dr. Guthrie\'s. I\'d like to
begin by saying that I enjoyed reading the papers that accompanied the
materials that we were sent and then hearing the presentation because
some of the question that I had were addressed.

The model of Corrective Reading incorporates explicit teaching of
decoding and comprehension and the components that the literature
suggests are important, everything from phonological awareness to
reading for pleasure. Teachers are provided very specific professional
development before implementation and then they\'re supported by coaches
which addresses one of the key issues that we face when we try to do
intervention research, which is that teachers are trained and then
they\'re left to their own devices to implement what they\'ve been
taught.

Student skills are assessed so that even though this is a very
systematic, structured program there is an opportunity to assess student
skills coming into this program and then to monitor them continuously as
they participate in the program and I think the developers and the
implementers have done a good job of explaining the rationale behind the
program and the interventions are based, according to Grossen\'s
article, on more than 30 years of research on Direct Instruction with
older students. So it\'s not simply applying what we know about young
children to older learners.

And so the results have been quite positive for a very diverse group of
students and so I would particularly compliment the implementers for
their focus on those students that we heard earlier today are typically
at the bottom of the achievement level.

The devil is in the detail and so I would take these comments not as
criticism \-- because I think one of the dilemmas when you have research
and you try to translate it into practice is providing enough
information and enough detail that the recipients of that information
know what to do with it. So, in one sense, this really just highlights
some of the details that I think are going to be particularly important
for\-- for practitioners.

I would echo what Dr. Guthrie said, which is that one of the really
positive aspects of this model is that it is school-wide and I think
that things work best when there is complete adoption, or at least
understanding, of what is the goal of programs and interventions on the
part of everyone who works with the learners. And so it would be helpful
to know a lot more about the context. How was buy-in accomplished? What
are the school, classroom and teacher characteristics that are
contributing to the successful outcomes? Was there or is it important to
have parental involvement or influence? Since we know that that is
particularly critical for younger students, what are the\-- what\'s the
impact or the importance of parental involvement for older learners?

And then, particularly how do you sustain the interventions over time?
And I know that, at least in some of what we read that there was
information provided about needing to\-- or issues of sustaining effects
and those are so crucial, so you know what happens if you change
principals or you change teachers or, I think in the example that was
cited in the papers, you get a different crop of students that has
characteristics that aren\'t quite like the ones that you began with.

How much training is required so that teachers know and are able to do
what is needed to ensure student outcomes? The Corrective Reading
Program is highly scripted. I got a better sense in terms of the
involvement of intervention teams so that there\'s discussion of what\'s
happening when students aren\'t learning, but I think it\'s really
important, since it is such a highly scripted program, to talk about
what teachers really need to know to be able to understand who\'s
benefiting from the program and who\'s not, particularly since they need
to be making on-the-spot decisions about how to redirect or modify what
is being taught.

So the successful implementation requires not only an in-depth
understanding of the model and the intervention but also an in-depth
understanding of the students that are participating. And so I think the
key question that still needs to be answered by the model is which
students learned under\-- which students learned what under what
conditions? And I think that\'s the same question that Dr. Guthrie
posed.

Researchers, developers, implementers, I think have to be more specific
in describing the characteristics of students. English language learners
in this study made significant gains, but it wasn\'t very clear to me
which students those were and so I think it\'s important to address
issues like which language groups, high-incidence or low-incidence, what
levels of native English proficiency, what levels of literacy across the
two languages?

The complexities for middle schools and high schools, particularly,
since those students have very limited access to native language
instruction, most of what we\'re doing is in English, and you have
students that range from no knowledge of English to being effective
English speakers. What prior literacy experiences? And I think
motivational factors are particularly important for this group, given
the socio-cultural issues of relationships across groups.

And then I think Dr. Curtis this morning raised an important question,
particularly given the diverse groups that we\'re talking about and that
is, what is typical development? And I think these are the same
questions that can be raised for English language learners can be raised
for African-American students and for, in general, speakers of dialects.

In the first workshop Dr. Alexander \[sp\] presented some possible
profiles of adolescents acquiring literacy skills and those profiles
ranged from very competent learners to resistant students, resistant
learners, to students who had what she called a complex of reading
problems. And I think that kind of framework would be helpful as studies
of these\-- of this model unfold so that we know which interventions or
what components of the interventions are effective for which student.

And then finally, I also would like to reinforce Dr. Guthrie\'s comment
that we need to know more about the control groups and the comparison
groups so that this model works better than what and the what was, I
thought, oftentimes missing and really in this case in the written\-- in
the written documentation.

Thank you.

Paul Worthington: Good morning. My name is Paul Worthington. I\'m the
Director of Research and Development for Lindamood-Bell.

First of all, I\'d like to congratulate the presenter. It\'s a good job.
Very, very interesting.

There\'s a couple key points and I\'d like to, first of all, applaud the
efforts of Bonnie, those people in the field of Corrective Reading, for,
first of all, challenging us with a lot of really, really critical
questions. Not a whole lot of people, comparatively, have stepped up to
the plate and taken a serious look at adolescent literacy and that\'s\--
that\'s a real important issue and to reflect just a little bit further
on what Alba said, the\-- in working in schools across the country for a
number of years, the resounding\-- one of the resounding themes is when
is the government going to get around to addressing the needs of
adolescents. And these folks have pushed that envelope and on that note,
I\'d like to congratulate them.

Questions \-- I think probably the best way to articulate this is, given
the presentations by Dr. Curtis, et cetera, and the framework that has
come out of the first workshop, there\-- it\'s\-- most of the questions
that I have are relative to those issues, specifically as we address the
needs of adolescent\-- adolescent literacy.

Specific to the Corrective Reading Model, I\'d like to pose a series of
questions that in some ways reflect or mirror what\'s already been
suggested. I\'d like to ask those folks who are using the Corrective
Reading, what don\'t you know that\'d you\'d like to know about
adolescent development and literacy? And that\'s, I think, an important
question as all of reflect on the issues that need to be addressed for
those of us who are dealing with adolescents. That\'s a big one.

I\'m wondering what the research agenda as\-- and I\'m asking that of
myself, but of course, to anybody, including, generically, those folks
who are looking at Corrective Reading, what\'s the research agenda and
what are the priorities within that agenda? That\'s specifically related
to what you don\'t know.

Three \-- and this one has to do\-- I\'ll go at it from a theoretical
standpoint first and then talk a little bit more. I\'ll do it in reverse
of what John did and that is what\'s the core theory about the processes
behind Corrective Reading? More specifically, to address the question
that was posed a little bit earlier, what\'s the student\'s theory about
how it is that they learn? You know, what\'s the transaction in terms of
where do they take this after they go through their particular
instructional strategies?

And related to that, I\'m wondering if those people associated with
Corrective Reading could specifically address, what is the scientific
principles associated with Corrective Reading? As John indicated
earlier, there\'s just an enormous body of literature that takes a look
in the cognitive sciences relative to those aspects of human learning.
It would be very interesting to me, and I\'m not seeing it and maybe I
just haven\'t been looking that carefully at it, but It\'d be very
interesting to me for those people from the behaviorist orientation in
teaching reading to do a comparative or a theoretical paper and contrast
what we now know in the cognitive neural sciences about those core
issues that are associated with reading as compared to the theoretical
principles in the behaviorist orientation.

And, of course, the primary justification for that or the reason for
that is to add to a body of research and then questions that would allow
us to frame a series of research agendas that we\'d specifically be able
to contrast those two.

I\'m very interested, more specifically, in the results of those of, if
you will, the lack of results in the high school gains. There\'s got to
be something going on there and I\'m wondering what, Catherine, your
colleagues and so forth have to say in terms of the\-- an explanation as
to why that was not addressed.

And finally, that begs the\-- my suspicion is that begs\-- the answer
would have to do with those issues that have been brought up, specific
to context and scaling up. There are an enormous amount of other
variables outside of instructional strategies and I\'m\-- I\'ve got a
question with regard to all the excellent things that have been done on
the instructional side. It would be, I think, really, really beneficial
for people, both theorists and practitioners, within the Direct
Instruction model to begin to articulate within that scientific
framework what about contextual issues, since behaviorists are so
interested in environmental modifications what, outside of instructional
strategies, within that environments are affecting student profiles,
particularly in the area, of course, of reading.

I\'ll add just a couple of comments in general, then, to these
questions. Specifically\-- Sorry, one more question I just noticed here.
I\'m very interested in, it was not articulated in any of the literature
that I saw, the diagnostic tools that are used to prescribe intervention
and to that, I\'m wondering do all students, regardless of what the
diagnostic tools indicate, go through the decoding piece and the
comprehension piece and the written piece? Or are those parsed out into
different frameworks based on the diagnostic information? I wasn\'t\--
that wasn\'t real clear to me.

I\'ll mirror my concerns with the comparative study, looking more
specifically at some comparisons between other intervention approaches.
I think that\'s probably the next step anyway, and I\'m just surmising.
And that\'s not to say that this hasn\'t been an elegant series of
questions in addressing the needs of the students, because I know, as a
practitioner, you\'re faced with the realities of trying to make a
difference for the kids and it\'s not always easy to set up a pure
controlled study in that context. But that really is another question.

Mediating influences \-- that goes to the contextual artifacts. That was
brought up earlier. One, in particular, motivational factors and so
forth. Given the behaviorist orientation, it would be very, very
interesting to me for Corrective Reading to take a look at the, if
nothing else, the effects of those instructions on measures of
motivation and then, of course, academic performance that goes along
with that.

I\'m also very interested \-- and this has to do with \-- I know that
the inter\-- educational\-- inter-agency educational research initiative
there\'s an enormous challenge before us right now and it has to do with
scaling up and I\'d like to mirror some comments that were made earlier
about \-- and it\'s not really addressed, and I\'m not necessarily
singling out Corrective Reading, but it does fall into the arena of a
question here \-- and that is, as we look at this model, you know, what
gleanings or what particular artifacts or evidences can we use to
validate scaling it up within the context of larger educational
environments?

I mean, typically high schools have three to four times as many students
in those schools as, say, an elementary school. If we\'re going to go to
scale on this, what are the implications from an instructional
standpoint and I\'m very curious as to the implications for school
reform and the architectures of how it is that our schools are set up?
Are we learning from\-- something from Corrective Reading in terms of
the progress that it\'s made with students that forces us to ask some
questions about the constructs of how our environments are created? Is
there something that comes out of this body of literature or this
research that suggests environmentally we need to ask some more germane
questions to the overall environment of what it is that we\'re
addressing?

Thank you.

Darion Griffin: I\'m impressed. Please join me in thanking both
Catherine for the excellent way in which she represented in a very
concise, condensed time period, Corrective Reading and the
implementation of it in Sacramento and also to each of our respondents
for doing what we asked them to do, which is to raise questions that
would help inform the creation of the research agenda about the
particular model, in particular, or the notion of adolescent literacy
and the development of instruction and sound practice in general. Not
that we expect that Catherine will be able to answer those questions or
that any of the models would be able to.

If there are questions, though, that you feel that were specific to the
implementation at Goethe that you can address, we certainly would
welcome you to do that now and then we would open up the floor to you
and would ask that you would go to either one of the floor mikes or the
roving mike to ask questions and identify to whom you would like them
addressed.

Cathy Bardo: I do have a couple comments regarding the respondents\'
questions.

First of all, the comment regarding the bottom-up progression of
students through the Corrective Reading Program, at Goethe that was true
because we had to put\-- give the placement test and put students in the
levels into which they placed that and we were limited in our resources
in terms of the amount of time a student could spend in a reading class.
They had one period that they could be placed in reading. It was in
place of their elective. So we chose a single-strand sequence.

Now we have shifted, thanks to the State of California recognizing that
there are a group of students, older struggling readers, who need
intensive reading intervention, the state has adopted reading
intervention programs and Corrective Reading is one of those. It\'s an
expansion, the name of it is REACH, but it\'s all of the actual
instructional programs used in Corrective Reading. And, as you see on
the screen here, the students take them concurrently.

So the students are administered a placement test and say they placed
into level B1, then they also take a comprehension level that fits with
level B1 decoding and they take a reasoning and writing level that fits
with that level of decoding and so on. Spelling comes in \-- and I\'ll
apologize, there should be bars, because spelling reaches both sides of,
you know, where it\'s placed on there. But the point being that they
take the courses concurrently and so they do receive, I guess you would
say, a top-down as well as a bottom-up implementation in terms of the
levels of reading\-- reading comprehension, higher-level thinking. So
that\'s one thing.

The other is, in terms of examining how students are doing, I was
talking to you about progress monitoring. This is a sample of a school
report. And this report would go to the principal. It gives all of the
levels of Corrective Reading that are going on in the school and it\'s
probably hard to see, but just this would the teacher\'s name, the
level, decoding B2, and the percent of students at mastery during that
monthly report period.

The next one would\-- that you see is Dorothy, level\-- decoding B2, 100
percent at mastery. Drop down to Kevin, decoding B2, 87.5 percent at
mastery. It also has the class count and the period, but, you know,
it\'s hard for you to see that. Colleen, decoding B2, 88 percent at
mastery.

So that\'s a way for teachers to really examine and see, but it\'s also,
which is even more important to me, a way for the principal, for the
literacy coach at the school site \-- we have literacy coaches at each
of our middle schools and high schools. They can look at this data and
then try to determine what\'s going on in those classes that needs
further intervention and modification. Is it academic? Is it something
else? That\'s one indication.

And then the final report would be the class list. So this would be
Mark\'s class. The student\'s names, Reuben, Lynnette, Alexander. Reuben
\-- the reason not at mastery, 106 words a minute. Is reading 106 words
a minute, 3 errors on lesson\-- in lesson 16. So there\'s some data
given there, some information of how the student is performing, you
know, the numbers of errors that they\'re making. So that informs
instruction for the teacher.

Darion Griffin: Thank you very much, Catherine. In the front, there\'s a
question?

Unidentified Speaker: Do we have a roving mike?

Unidentified Speaker: Yes, this is actually a question for the panel.
Has there been any systematic study of factors influencing scalability
of a reading reform model?

Paul Worthington: To my\-- is this on? To my knowledge there\-- the New
American Schools there\'s been a\-- there was a huge effort with regard
to look at those questions of scalability. It did not, to my
understanding, did not/has not looked specifically at models of reading
towards scalability. In fact, there\'s\-- that inter agency educational
research initiative, the solicitation just ended on that May the 15th
that posed that very question because there\'s not substantive evidence
of bringing to scale major reading initiatives.

That initiative or solicitation also had to do with science and
mathematics, not just reading. In all three of those, that question has
really not been answered very effectively, therefore, the government has
stepped up and put forth a solicitation for that very reason, because
there\'s not, to my knowledge.

Gil Garcia: Gil Garcia of the U.S. Department of Education. First of
all, I\'d like to thank Ms. Bardo for being such a risk-taker. You did
an admirable job of describing this intervention model and in the
process of talking about it you did answer one of my questions and one
of the questions that I was going to make or one of the comments I was
going to make was in relation to a point that I believe you made or
certainly a question that came to my mind when you were talking and that
is, is this representative of a fully developed curriculum?

In the Department of Ed, one of the lessons that we have learned,
including the funding of school reform models, is that no model is ever
fully developed. It continues to evolve and change over time and it
appears that at least, going from the Corrective Reading model to the
REACH initiative that, in fact, that change is happening, at least in
Sacramento, and, no doubt, in other schools that are adopting this
intervention program.

But I have a couple of questions, though, and they\'re not necessarily
targeted just on you, but it\'s certainly targeted on other implementers
of this model, as well as in relation to the comments\-- the three sets
of very, very in-depth questions that the three panelists posed, as
well. And that is, I still don\'t get the sense of how this model is
tailored, adapted, fine-tuned, to use your word, to ensure that it, in
fact, is an adolescent model, a model that is totally appropriate or
highly appropriate for adolescents versus fourth graders or versus ninth
graders or 10th graders. And I realize, again, that you\'re not the
developer. You\'re the implementer, largely, and so that we\'re kind of
caught short because we don\'t have the developer to pose these very
pointed questions to.

And, in addition to that, one of the questions that\'s come up is, well,
what is typical development? And I think it\'s entirely appropriate to
ask that at the student level, but I think in relation to the comments
that have been made, it\'s appropriate to ask that question, what is
typical development across time for the teachers implementing this
model? What is typical development across time for the schools that are
implementing this model?

And that leads me to my last point and that is that one of the other
areas of research that we need to continue to fund and be very
aggressive about is to look at what the model looks like in a diverse
range of settings and schools and students. It is one thing for you to
present statistics on English language learners in Sacramento, but
surely I can\'t imagine that you\'re even wanting to hint at an
implication that English language learners across all of the schools
that might be implementing this model are the same.

Cathy Bardo: Right. Can I go ahead and respond? Yes, that is true. We
have expanded the model. It is being used in many schools, but fairly
recently, you know, in the last couple of years, so the data for English
learners is limited, to say the least.

In Sacramento City Unified, we do have the data for our different
Corrective Reading schools and I\'d say that Goethe probably\-- the data
is probably the best-looking data in terms of growth, but remember
Goethe has been implementing the program for several years. So at this
point, they\'re in their fifth year of implementation this year and I
think with that, you know, experience in delivering the program,
learning the nuances, the ins and outs, benefits them.

I wanted to say something else about our English learners, too. The
beginning English learners are not placed in the Corrective Reading
program initially. They receive about six months of oral language
development in their ELD, English language development, core class and
then the teacher\-- they\'re administered the placement test. The
teacher determines if they\'re ready for the program, the beginning
levels of the program.

Also, another question that was\-- that\'s brought up to me, in terms of
researches to look at are students who are literate in their home
language and just learning English and how they do with this program
versus our students who are not literate in their home language and how
they do in learning this program. And we haven\'t done that yet,
specifically, and, you know, I think that\'s something we really need to
look at.

Darion Griffin: I think it\'s interesting to note or acknowledge that we
do have with us, also, as part of this process scientific reporters who
are both taking note of the kinds of general questions that are being
asked, but also the more specific ones that I would expect we can funnel
to the model developers to help inform their future work, also.

Are there other questions or comments?

Unidentified Speaker: I have a comment as a fellow implementer of the
Corrective Reading program. \[inaudible\] And I wanted to kind of
support in\-- the response in terms of questions regarding the
\[inaudible\] areas. We looked at three different areas. One was student
participation and that participation within the lesson and across other
content areas improved. The teachers felt that their own teaching
ability increased and as a result of increased student achievement, what
was created was a learning community in that discussion of the\-- of the
assessment, the instruction and the teaching of these kids increased
because teachers were talking about it, particularly in that school-wide
model.

So motivation, to address that area, it was also very instrumental in
increasing motivation because the kids feel they were more successful
and the teachers were, too. So thank you.

Cathy Bardo: \[inaudible\] it\'s nice to see you. We haven\'t met, but
I\'ve heard her name a lot.

Darion Griffin: Dr. Guthrie?

John Guthrie: I\'d like to commend you on that statement.

Darion Griffin: Can you restate it so that people in the back can hear?

John Guthrie: OK. I was asked to restate this comment, which is a little
daunting, but you said that you have been also implementing Corrective
Reading and that you find that the students who experience success, and
that\'s a significant proportion, are feeling better about themselves
and more confident in their reading as a result and it\'s a kind of a
motivational effect, in your view.

If I could observe, I guess we should study this problem, but I think
these students who gain reading skills they didn\'t have before, are
going to improve in self-efficacy, the sense that, "I can read." And
it\'s a very crucial quality. Very different, I would point out, than
self-esteem, which is this global sense that everything\'s right with
the world. OK? That doesn\'t help you read better. But efficacy that, "I
can read these words," or "I can read this paragraph," is valuable and
is likely to do a very important thing for the student and that is get
them to read more.

There\'s one extremely high correlation between amount of reading and
comprehension level and that occurs across levels of achievement and
across ages. Now those two work together. People who read more achieve
more. Students who achieve more, read more. They work together. There\'s
no one-way causal factor, but the motivation goes beyond efficacy into
goals and students who have goals for learning from text \-- now they
might be learning about a story, but they\'re learning. They might be
learning about a content, like the American government. Some people read
about that.

It doesn\'t matter so much the content, it matters that they are,
indeed, motivated to gain understanding through reading. And that
motivation might be considered a sort of learning goal that they bring
to text and that is going to foster their amount of reading, which is
going to cycle into producing achievement.

So I think an important question for research is, how much does the
intervention increase the student\'s amount and breadth and depth of
reading activity?

Darion Griffin: Thank you very much, John. In the back, please? Would
you please go to a microphone so that everybody\--

Unidentified Speaker: Sorry. I think the gentleman in the striped shirt
has been waiting.

Darion Griffin: All right. Thank you.

Steve Piastok: Thank you very much. My name is Steve Piastok \[sp\] from
New York City and, Cathy, we look forward to seeing\-- the New Jersey
Nets look forward to seeing the Sacramento Kings in the finals.

Cathy Bardo: Thank you.

Steve Piastok: A couple of questions that came into my mind. I was
wondering how much time did the teachers have to meet and facilitate the
program and also talk about the types of literature that can be used to
facilitate the program\'s success?

Cathy Bardo: OK. The teachers actually had a lot of time to meet and
talk about the program. Part of the progress monitoring is to
encourage\-- you know, when the data goes back to the school is to
encourage the reading teachers of the various levels to get together and
to look at the data so that all the decoding B2 teachers get together,
look at the data and talk about it, all the decoding C and then the
reading teachers as a group.

So we had to work really hard as a site, because you know how much we
have to pack into a school day, you know, in terms of instruction, and
then finding time for teachers to get together but we did that as often
as we could. We have curriculum meetings every third Thursday. We
bought\-- we paid teachers to stay late, you know, to meet and talk
about the data because we knew how important it was and we couldn\'t fit
it into the school day. Occasionally we did release time but, see, that
can work against you. If you\'re pulling your teachers out of class to
meet, then you\'re losing valuable instruction time and really that\'s
not a good way to go, but occasionally we did do that.

But, yes, we had dialogues about it. And I\'ll tell you, everything
wasn\'t all rosy and, "Yeah, you know, this is a fabulous program." I
mean, how do you think teachers feel? It is a very scripted program and
if you went into teaching to be creative and to do your thing, you know,
and your passion and you feel you\'re restricted by using a script,
that\'s hard for some people to get around. But we also had dialogue
about, it isn\'t so much about me as a teacher and what I need, it\'s
what you\-- you know, and all our students, it\'s what the students
need. And that\'s really hard to get around. That was\-- I mean, that
caused a lot of discussion. We spent a lot of time hashing that over.

But you know what? The teachers understood, for the most part, that
that\'s what needed to happen.

You know, the question about using a model like this in the whole
school. We didn\'t say, "OK, we\'re putting every Goethe student in this
reading program, like it or not." We did placement testing. We only used
the standardized tests to target the group of students that we wanted to
place in. Sadly, Goethe Middle School students were performing, almost
all of them\-- there were only 50 students the first year, that didn\'t
have to take a reading class out of 850. I mean, it makes you want to
cry. But those were the needs of that school at that place in time.

Other schools implement. They don\'t need to have the whole school in a
reading program. So these are issues, I think, as practitioners we face
every day and, you know, as researchers we welcome the outside eyes
because, quite frankly, as the principal you don\'t have time to really
get into the research piece. You have to trust that there are people out
there that will help you. We have a fabulous research and evaluation
department, too, that helps us face those problems.

Darion Griffin: I think it\'s important to note the importance that you
place on buy-in and on staff development, not just around what are the
skills that teachers need, but also to extend it so that we understand
the underpinnings, the research underpinnings, for why it is we do that
and what the likely results are and whether or not this model or this
program has been\-- experienced success with similarly situated students
so that it feels relevant in a context that supports and advances and
focuses on literacy improvement, for instance, across the board. Those
are a lot of eggs to juggle simultaneously and too often schools and
districts aren\'t as successful as it sounds like you have been in doing
that.

In the back and then John would like\-- Paul would like to ask a
question. I\'m sorry.

Unidentified Speaker: My question has to do with time. You noted that
you added an additional class period for the students to do this and
since we find it\'s rare that middle school students are allotted two
class periods for reading and language arts \-- recent studies have
shown less than a third \-- is there any research or do people know of
research that just demonstrates that having an extra class
instructionally in language arts for three years will affect students\'
performance?

Cathy Bardo: Does anybody\-- I\'m not aware of any research that
indicates that. Actually, we added the class. We didn\'t add it to the
day. It took the place of the elective and that was a vote by the
teachers. Even the teachers that were teaching electives, but I think
what we have to look at it is what is the cause of the reading failure,
you know, and what are the needs of those students and could those needs
be met in a regular language arts class?

Well, a regular seventh grade or eighth grade or ninth grade language
arts class in the State of California teaches to very rigorous content
standards so a student who cannot decode the words on the page doesn\'t
even stand a chance. So do we ask the language arts teacher, excuse me,
to turn around and stop what they\'re doing in terms of teaching those
standards to the students and drop back and now deliver reading
instruction? We could, but then we\'re losing\-- we\'re gaining ground
at the lower end, we\'re losing ground at the grade-level end, if you
follow what I\'m saying.

So we tried to say, OK, you still get your language arts class. We may
have to make modifications to it, you know, that\'s for sure, but we\'re
going to give you the reading instruction in addition.

Darion Griffin: Thank you. Paul?

Paul Worthington: First, to answer that question, I\'m not familiar with
whether or not there are any studies, I\'m not aware of any, that have
just taken a look as to whether or not if you add, say, another language
arts class or something that that, in fact, would have some effect on
reading performance.

My gut level, theoretical orientation towards that is that nobody
wants\-- probably wants to go there, knowing what the outcomes would
probably be. That\'s just a hypothesis on my part.

Specifically, I\'d like to, then, ask Catherine two questions. One has
to do with the\-- it was mentioned, and I forget in what part of the
literature that was provided, that there\'s a diagnostic tool that\'s
used. And I\'d like to know what that is and how that\'s used towards
determining where those students go in their reading approach?

And the second question is, I\'m interested in what you mean by mastery.
Is mastery\-- are you talking about mastery in decoding? Mastery in
comprehension or writing or all three? When you put the percentages up
there, what\'s that have to do with?

Cathy Bardo: Oh, the 100 percent at 90 percent?

Paul Worthington: Yeah.

Cathy Bardo: It\'s mastery of the skill in whatever level they\'re in.
So if they\'re in a decoding class, it\'s\-- they need to have\-- they
have a kind of a check built into the different levels where very five
lessons or so the teacher does a check of the skills. And so they
determine the percent of skill that they\'re at mastery. If they\'re 80
percent, then they\'re at mastery for learning those skills presented
along the way in that level.

Paul Worthington: So that applies\--

Cathy Bardo: So in decoding it\'s mastery of the decoding skills
presented in the different lessons, OK?

Paul Worthington: Um-hmm \[affirmative\].

Cathy Bardo: And for comprehension it\'s mastery of the comprehension
skills.

Paul Worthington: Skills. Great. Thank you.

And the diagnostics?

Cathy Bardo: And the diagnostics. OK. There is a diagnostic\-- there is
a placement test that\'s actually designed for the Corrective Reading
Program and that is the test that\'s used to determine placement into
the program. So the student\'s administered\-- you know, they have to
read a selection and the teacher checks the errors and the amount of
time it takes the student to read and then it determines whether they
give them the comprehension test. See, they can go up. They don\'t, you
know, or they might have to drop back and put them down into the
decoding B1 if their errors are high enough or the amount of time it
takes them to read it, you know, is a certain rate. Then they would go
lower.

And then at comprehension level there\'s another piece of the text
delivered that\'s from the curriculum that, then, determines, do they
stay in comprehension, do they go up to reasoning and writing.

Darion Griffin: Thank you. We have time for two more questions and we
have two people with mikes. Yes?

Unidentified Speaker: You talked about the opportunities that the
reading teachers had to communicate with each other to reflect and to
share, were there any opportunities for those reading teachers to
communicate with the rest of the content area teachers so that they
would understand the program and, perhaps, support the strategies being
taught in the Corrective Reading Program?

Cathy Bardo: Thank you for that question, because it helps me clear
something up. At Goethe Middle School all the teachers teach a reading
class, the science teacher, the math teacher, the language arts teacher.
They all teach a reading class. Now before you fall apart, what we did
is the math and science teachers, the content teachers, teach the
comprehension and the reasoning and writing levels and they are content
rich, so we felt that we could do that, you know, with training. Nobody
teaches it without the full training. But they were trained to teach it.

And in California there is an Ed Code\-- Ed Code provision that allows
us to do that with a committee on assignments. So that\'s what they did.

And then the language arts, special ed and we did have one or two
reading specialists, people with reading specialist certificates, they
taught\-- teach the decoding levels. OK? So\-- but, you know, it\'s
experience for that content teacher right there. They\'re teaching a
reading class, so even if it\'s in the higher level, they are making
application and they did have discussions about it.

Although I have to say that I still think there\'s needs to be more done
with content area literacy and training our content area teachers at the
middle school and especially the high school level. You know, that\'s an
area that we are looking at as a district and we are\-- we have some
things up our sleeve in terms of that and I\'d be happy to share them
later, if you\'d like.

Unidentified Speaker: Thank you.

Darion Griffin: Perhaps the allure of break or the question was answered
meant that we have no more questions. I\'d like to thank the panelists,
again, and Catherine, and you for your questions.

We\'ll reconvene in 15 minutes.