**Wild Horse and Burro Update**

**A BLM National Training Center Telecast**

**March 4, 1998**

This transcript is from the closed-captioning file produced during the
telecast. It may contain errors and omissions in transcription.

Announcer: the Bureau of Land Management Satellite Network Presents Live
from the BLM National Training Center in Phoenix, Arizona, \"Arizona
Update\"\... a Discussion of Current Issues for Arizona BLM Employees.
Now, the Host of Your Program, Tina Gromo.

Announcer: the Bureau of Land Management Satellite Network Presents Live
from the BLM National Training Center in Phoenix, Arizona\... \"An
Update On BLM\'s Wild Horse and Burro Program.\" An Interactive
Teleconference For Wild Horse and Burro Personnel and Other BLM
Employees. And Now, the Host of Your Program, Tony Garrett.

Garrett: Good Morning and Welcome to Our Telecast on BLM\'s Wild Horse
and Burro Program. With Us Today to Discuss the Current Status of the
Program And to Talk about the Future of The Program Is Sylvia Baca, the
Deputy Assistant Secretary of Interior for Land and Minerals Management
and the Former Acting Director of BLM. Good Morning, Sylvia.

Baca: Good Morning, Tony. Great to Be Here in Beautiful Warm Phoenix.

Garrett: Also with Us, a Familiar Face to Most of You by Now, BLM
Director Pat Shea. Good Morning, Pat.

Dir. Shea: It\'s Great to Be Here and You and Sylvia Brought Good
Weather. Sorry to Hear it Rained in Washington Yesterday. Here It\'s 70
Degrees and Quite Nice.

Garrett: and We\'re Especially Fortunate to Have with Us this Morning
the Chair of the Newly Reconstituted Wild Horse and Burro Advisory
Board, Robin Lohnes. Thanks for Joining Us.

Lohnes: It\'s Good to Be Here And I\'m Looking Forward to an Interactive
Session this Morning. Thanks.

Garrett: Completing Our Panel From Reno, Nevada, Tom Pogacnik, Who Most
Know Is the Chief of The Wild Horse and Burro Program Office There in
Reno. Welcome to the Show, Tom.

Pogacnik: Hi, Tony. It\'s Been Gray and Wet Winter in Reno and this
Phoenix Sunshine Has Been a Real Relief.

Garrett: it Has, Indeed. Before We Begin with the Opening Statements
from the Panel this Morning, I\'d like to Mention to Our Viewers That We
Do Want to Hear from You During this Telecast. You Have Been Provided
with Telephone Numbers Previously, And So We\'ll Ask You to Use Those a
Little Bit Later in the Program, and Please Feel Free to Call in Your
Questions or Comments or You May Use the Fax Line Given Previously to
Send Us a Fax with Questions or Comments for the Panel. Also, a Program
Note, We\'d like To Ask All Downlink Sites to Fax Us the Total Number of
Viewers From Your Office Who Are Watching Today\'s Show. We\'d like
Separate Total on How Many Horse and Burro Program Specialists Are
Watching, How Many Managers, and How Many Other BLM Employees Were Able
to Watch the Program this Morning. Please Fax That Information to The
NTC Here in Phoenix Immediately after this Telecast. Now, Before We Hear
from Sylvia, Robin and Tom, I Wondered, Pat, If You Would like to Take a
Moment In the Beginning to Sort of Frame the Discussion and Tell Us What
Your Expectations Are for The Telecast.

Dir. Shea: Thank You, Tony. I Appreciate this Opportunity to Talk with
the People Who Really Make the Program Work, and That Is the BLM
Employee Who Has Been Involved Either out of Personal Commitment or by
Assignment with The Wild Horse and Burro Program. Since 1971, It's
Certainly Had Many Different Critical Junctures. I Think with Sylvia\'s
Stewardship Last Year, a Number Of Very Difficult Situations Were Dealt
With, and ‑‑ I Think In a Very Consistent and Professional Manner.
Today\'s Broadcast Is Going to Allow Us To Share Some Ideas That We\'ve
Gathered from the Wild Horse and Burro Advisory Board\'s First Meeting
in Reno, to Talk about Some Program Changes That We\'re Thinking about.
Nothing Has Been Finalized Yet, but I Really Encourage the People Who
Are Watching this Broadcast to Call In with Their Questions or Comments
and to Be Sure to Participate. One of My Major Themes Has Been To Look
at the Health of the Organization. It Strikes Me That with Mike
Dombeck\'s Health of the Land Concept We Need to Have a Healthy
Organization. No Area of the BLM Is That More Applicable than the
Experts That We Have in the Wild Horse and Burro Program. Your
Participation Is Critical and I Want to Make it Clear Through Today\'s
Broadcast And Through Other Subsequent Actions That this Program Has My
Personal Commitment. Robin Lohnes, Who You Will Meet Here Shortly,
Described it Quite Well the Other Day When We Were Talking about this.
The Wild Horse and Burro Program Could Become the Positive Hallmark for
BLM. It Represents an Opportunity and Should Be Seen as an Opportunity
For BLM to Step out and Show Critics in the Public, in Congress, Other
Branches of the Federal Government That We Can Manage Whole Ecosystems
and That The Horse and the Burro in the Natural and Wild Settings of the
West Is Something That We Should Be Very Proud of and That We Should
Protect in Terms of a Legacy for Future Generations. So I Hope That You
Will Take This Opportunity to Interact With Me, with Sylvia, with Tom
And Robin. I Think We Will Come Away from Today with a Renewed
Commitment to the Vitality of the 1971 Act and the Way That BLM
Administers It. So I Look Forward to the Questions, Tony.

Garrett: Thank You, Pat. Sylvia, You Were Acting Director Of BLM from
January Last Year to August and That Was a Very Critical Time for the
Wild Horse And Burro Program and the Bureau Itself.

Baca: Yes, Tony and I Recall Very Clearly What it Was like Last Year
When I Took over as Acting Director. The Bureau Was Reeling from Some
Very Damaging Allegations about The Operation of the Program. Some of
the Allegations Were Unfounded and Unfair. I Know That it Was a Very
Painful Time for the People Who Were Devoted to the Program. But Other
Criticisms Were Valid And Some of the Questions That Were Raised Were
Legitimate Questions. I\'m Sure You Remember What it Was Like, Too. We
Faced a Genuine Crisis and We Knew We Had to Get to the Bottom of the
Charges to Find The Truth, to Identify the Problems in the Program, to
Fix Them and to Restore the Public\'s Confidence in the BLM\'s
Stewardship of the Program. We Approached That Challenge With a True
Sense of Urgency. We Looked at the Recommendations Of the Pierson Team
and Approved Them Across the Board. I Signed the Document Directing The
BLM to Move Immediately to Implement Those Recommendations. Then the
Culp Investigation Was Completed, Giving Us Further Guidance on How to
Improve the Management and the Operations of The Program. With Those Two
Reports, We Identified the Major Shortcomings of the Program and Some of
the Solutions. But Now It\'s Time to Take an Honest Look at What We\'ve
Accomplished over the past Year And Where to Go from Here. That\'s the
Reason for Today\'s Telecast. I\'m Here Not Just Because of My Current
Responsibilities as Deputy Assistant Secretary. As the Acting Director
of the Bureau Last Year, I Gave My Commitment, Publicly, That the
Reforms and the Improvements Recommended by the Pierson and The Culp
Teams Would Be Implemented. I Won\'t Be Satisfied until I Know That
Those Commitments Are Being Kept, and I Know You, the People Who Are
Responsible for The Program Day in and Day Out, Won\'t Be Satisfied with
Anything Less Either. So as We Move Forward on Our Unfinished Business
of Last Year And the New Initiatives That Pat Will Be Discussing
Shortly, I Ask You to Keep a Few Things in Mind ‑‑ This Is a Very
High‑profile Program. In Reality, it Represents Only a Small Part of
BLM\'s Mission, and Yet it Has Such a High Profile With Key Constituent
Groups and The General Public That it Can Define Our Effectiveness as a
Team and Our Performance as a Public Agency. Many Members of the Public,
Even Members of Congress and Other Groups, Who Know Nothing Else About
the BLM, Form Their Opinions of You and Your Agency Solely on What They
Read in the Newspapers or What They See on Television. So Perceptions Do
Matter. After All, it Was Public Perception That Created this Program.
We Have to Be Mindful of the Fact That Every Decision Made And That
Every Action Taken Can Come under Intense Scrutiny by The Media, Other
Outside Groups And the General Public. But That\'s All Right. As Long as
the Direction We Chart for the Program Is Discussed Openly with Input
from All of Our Stakeholders and as Long as We Develop Policies Based on
Good Science and Good Sound Management Practices. As Long as We Adhere
to the Established Policy Without Exception, We Do Not Have to Be
Concerned about Any Attention That the Media or Public Will Pay to Us.
In Fact, We Should Welcome That Attention. This Can Be and Should Be a
White Hat Program. It Can Show the BLM at its Very, Very Best. Finally,
There Are Some Common Elements Necessary for Success. Those Elements
Are, First, Coordination. The Responsibility for the Ultimate Success of
the Program Is Agency‑wide. You All Own a Piece of it and You Have to
Work Together, Not As Individual State Operations, But as a Team.
Second, Communication. Top to Bottom and Bottom to Top, Among the
States, the National Program, the Director\'s Office And the Assistant
Secretary\'s Office. I Think You\'ll Find That Poor Communication Has
Been at the Heart of Many of Our Problems That We Have Had in the past.
But We Can Change That. And Finally, We Need to Promote Common Values
and a Shared Vision for Where We Are Going. I Think We Have Got a Very
Good Start on That Score. I\'ve Had the Very Good Fortune To Meet with
Many of You in Places like Ridgecrest and Bartlesville and to Learn
Firsthand about What You Do. I Know That We Have a Lot of Talented,
Dedicated People in The Horse and Burro Program. People Who Take Pride
in Their Work and People Who Take Very Seriously Our Stewardship of
These Animals and the Landscape They in Habit. So Thank You. Thank You
for Your Work That You Are Doing out There. Thank You for the Commitment
to Making the Wild Horse and Burro Program a Success.

Garrett: Thank You, Sylvia. Pat, I Know You\'ve Approached The
Challenges of the Wild Horse And Burro Program on a Number of Fronts,
Including Reconstituting The Advisory Board That Robin Now Chairs, and
We\'ll Hear from Robin in Just a Moment about That. Where Do You Believe
the Program Stands Right Now and Tell Us About the Direction You Intend
To Take It.

Dir. Shea: Tony, When I Was Sworn in on the 4th of August, The Pierson
and Culp Reports Had Been Requested by Sylvia and Recommendations Had
Been Adopted.. I Asked Three Separate Fact Finders to Look at the
Questions That Seemed to Remain. I Asked Stuart Finley, Who Is a
Certified Public Accountant, Jay Shelleday, Who Is the Editor of The
Salt Lake Tribune, and Matthew Mackay‑smith Who Is a Veterinarian and
Publisher of Equus Magazine to Answer Certain Questions That Seemed to
Remain. They Made a Report at the First Meeting of the Wild Horse and
Burro Advisory Board in Reno And They Covered Areas That I Think
Sometimes Had Been Awkward For the BLM to Handle, Particularly as it
Related to Communications with the General Public. Sylvia\'s Absolutely
Right\... If We Do Not Have Good Communications Between Washington and
the Field, Between the National Office and The Public and Other
Departments In Government, We Are Going to Have Problems. So One of the
Things That I Look to with the Reestablishment of this Advisory Board Is
an Opportunity to Reach Out to the Public Who Have a Deep, Personal
Commitment to the Well‑being of These Horses and Burros and Make Sure
That We Communicate What We\'re Doing. I Think Our National Office Has
Had Extraordinary Pressures, Sometimes this Conflict Was Brought On by
Itself. I Hope That We Can With the Help of the Advisory Board Find a
Way to Better Rationalize That Process So We Can Have an Agreed to Set
of Goals, That We Can Make Accurate And Timely Reports to Congress And
to the Public, and That We Regain Some of the Confidence That I Think
the Public Has Not Felt about this Program in the Last Few Years. There
Are Three Incidents I Do Want to Talk about with Particularity and I
Think It\'s a Good Way to Start the Program. The First Is Something That
Happened in Burns, Oregon. A Criminal Arsonist Went in and Set off Some
Incendiary Devices Causing Loss of \$350,000 Worth Of Barn and
Equipment. Fortunately None of the Horses Were Injured and There Were No
People Injured. But It\'s That Kind of Violence That I Think Undermines
the Sense of Well‑being and Confidence That Federal Employees and BLM
Employees Need In Particular. Working with Elaine Zielinski, Our State
Director in Oregon and Washington, We Have Posted a \$20,000 Reward for
Any Information Leading to the Conviction of the Individual Responsible
for That Terrible, Terrible Crime. This Type of Crime Is Not To Be
Tolerated. Certainly, If Any of the People Watching this Broadcast Know
of Other Similar Incidents, I Hope You Will Report Them So We Can Begin
Tracking That down. We Also Had an Unfortunate Incident in Elm Creek
Where, Because of Weather and Because Of Some of the Conditions Found At
Elm Creek, Strangles Erupted. The Weather Caused the Death of A Number
of Horses. We Are Asking the Wild Horse and Burro Advisory Committee
What Their Recommendations Are as to How We Can Improve That Situation
and I Will Be Working with Tom and His Staff to Look at Logistics of How
We Move Horses Across the Country for the Adoption Program. Finally,
Last Week We Had the Death of Nine Horses That Were Being Transported.
We\'re Having an Autopsy Performed There; it May Have Been Some Bad
Serum That Was Used for Vaccination or it Could Have Been Shipping
Stress. We Will Be Checking That Out. As Soon as We Heard about It, We
Made Sure That We Had a Report to the Public So That We Were Not in This
Mode of Trying to Sweep it Under the Rug, as I Think Sometimes in the
past We Have Done. It\'s the Kind of Public out Front Performance That
Sylvia Typified When She Was Acting Director That I Want to Commend
Everybody\'s Attention. When We Have a Problem, I Think BLM Is at its
Best, When We Acknowledge the Problem, We Examine it with the
Thoughtfulness We\'re Capable of And Come to Resolutions. I Think We Can
Get Some Great Help from the Members of the Wild Horse and Burro
Advisory Board. Robin Is Our Chair. Jack Hansen Who Is a Rancher in
Northern California and Quite an Outspoken Individual Will Be Able to
Steward Some Ideas and Suggestions to Me, Tom, Other People Involved in
The Program. We Need Come to Where The Program Really Is, As I Said in
My Opening Comments, Evidence of Success. The Kind of Can‑do, Practical
Problem Solver That I Think Works Quite Well. Now, Robin, by Way of
Introduction, Has Had a Life Commitment to Wild Horses and to Horses
Generally. She Is an Owner, Has Been the Executive Director of Ahpa in
Washington, D.c. Beginning in 1987. She Presently Is the Chair of The
Board and Having Had Many Conversations with Her About the Wild Horse
Program, I Know She Has a Very Deep‑felt Personal Commitment to Making
it Work, and Most Importantly, in My Judgment, Making it Work with The
BLM Employees. I Think That\'s a Very Important Component. Our First
Meeting in Reno Was Successful. Tom Will Be Summarizing That Here
Shortly. After Our Meeting in Reno, We Were Able to Go out and Watch a
Gather near Winnemucca, And I Was Impressed Again with The Tremendous
Dedication of All of the BLM Employees Involved. Someone Last Night Was
Describing Somewhat the Shock People Felt When They Saw Some Of the
Horses That Had Been Transported Several Thousand Miles, Had Lost Two or
300 Pounds and Realized That Perhaps We Really Do Begin to Need Thinking
Outside the Normal Envelope. You Know, Maybe We Need to Really Redirect
Our Effort at Getting More Adoptions Closer to Where the Horses Are.
When You See Them on the Range In Nevada or Wyoming, They Are Truly
Spectacular Species, and We Need to Find Ways of Sharing That Kind of
Treasure in a Broader Sense and Facilitating Adoptions That Are More
Suited To the Well‑being of the Animal Itself. So I Think, Tony, We\'re
off to a Good Start. Again, I Encourage People Who Are Watching to Think
of Questions and If Your Questions Aren\'t Answered Today, If They\'re
Sent in by Fax, We Will Be Sure to Get You an Answer. I Encourage Their
Participation and I Thank Sylvia For the Good Work That She Did Last
Year and Continues to Do as The Deputy Assistant Secretary. So, Thank
You, Tony.

Garrett: Thank You, Pat. Robin You Will Be Chairing the Board That Will
Be Helping the Bureau of Land Management Make Decisions about the Wild
Horse And Burro Program. We Would like to Hear Your Thoughts Now on the
Job You Volunteered for and the Task Ahead as You See It.

Lohnes: Thank You. As Chair of the Newly Reestablished Wild Horse and
Burro Advisory Board, I Would Like to Take this Opportunity to
Reiterate, Not Only My Commitment but Also That of the Board\'s, to
Assisting the Bureau In Identifying Practical and Humane Solutions to
Many of the Recurrent Problems Facing the Wild Horse and Burro Program
Today. On a Personal Note, with over 10 Years of Experience in
Historical Perspective on Wild Horse and Burro Issues, I\'m Very Much
Aware of the Many Intricacies of the Program and The Challenges the
Bureau Often Faces Such as Congressional Oversight, Public Opinion and
Internal Management Issues. Given the Complexities of the Program, the
Advisory Board Does Face a Formidable Task, but it Is Not an Impossible
One. The Board Is Made up of Nine Very Motivated Individuals Who Bring
to the Table a Vast Array Of Expertise. From Veterinary Medicine to
Range Management to Practical Hands‑on Experience with Wild Horses. We
as a Group Are Very Well Grounded. We\'re Knowledgeable. We\'re Very
Enthusiastic. We\'re Ready to Tackle the Many Controversial Issues That
Have Continued to Shadow this Program. Over the next Two Years, We Will
Be Reviewing Current and Proposed Management Policies and Analyzing New
Technologies and Research. We Will Be Working with the National Program
Offices in Both Washington and Reno, but We Also Look Forward to Working
with Many of You out in the Field as We Collect Data and Tap on Your
Collective Expertise and Try to Identify Areas of Concern. On Behalf of
the Advisory Board, I Pledge Our Commitment to Developing
Recommendations on Matters Pertaining to All Facets Of the Program, from
on the Range Management Policies and Decisions to the Disposition of
Excess Animals and the Adopt‑a‑horse Program. We Believe the Bureau\'s
Wild Horse and Burro Program Has Yet To Reach its Greatest Potential.
We\'re up for the Challenge and We Hope That You Are, Too. Thank You.

Garrett: Thank You, Robin. Now, Program Chief Tom Pogacnik. Tom, Maybe
You Would like to Take a Moment to Talk about the First Meeting of the
Board as You Saw it and Where You See the Program Going from Here. \>
Pogacnik: Thank You, Tony. I Would like to Take a Few Minutes to Talk
about the First Wild Horse and Burro Advisory Board Meeting Held in
Reno, Nevada, on February 9‑11. As You Know, Secretaries Babbitt And
Glickman Reestablished the Board this Year as Part of BLM\'s Commitment
to Implement the Pierson Report Recommendations. This Board Also
Continues the Tradition of the Wild Horse and Burro Program Going
Outside the Agency to Seek Input and Recommendations from the Public.
You\'ve Already Met Robin, Chair Of the Board. Her Vice Chair Is Jack
Hansen, Who Represents Livestock Interests. They Are a Distinguished and
Talented Group. The Other Members of the Board Are Don Lappin for Wild
Horse And Burro Advocacy, Dr. Nat Messer, a Veterinarian for Wild Horse
and Burro Research. Jack Artz for Natural Resource Management, Dr. Allen
Rutberg For Humane Advocacy, Fred Burk, Dr. Peggy Stock and Naomi Tyler
For the Public at Large. The First Meeting of the Board Gave Members a
Chance to Introduce Themselves and to Talk About Their Interests in the
Program. Some Common Concerns Emerged: Accountability and Communication
For the Bureau to Say What We\'ll Do and Do What We Say. The Adoption
Program and Alternatives for Placing Excess Animals into Good Homes. The
Health of the Range, Getting Back to the Primary Focus of the Wild Horse
and Burro Act. Continuity of the Board. Implementation of
Recommendations Which Ties Back To Our Accountability. And BLM\'s Image
as a Responsible Federal Agency, Again, Accountability in Establishing
Public Trust. The First Meeting of the Board Also Provided an
Opportunity for Director Shea\'s Three Experts to Present Their
Findings. Jay Shelleday, Editor for the Salt Lake Tribune, Addressed the
Following Issues: the Importance of Establishing a Relationship with the
Media; That Public Information Officers Are Best Trained to Talk with
The Media; That Data Needs to Be Accurate and Timely; the Media Is
Neither the Enemy Nor Friend And the BLM Shouldn\'t Make the Media the
Issue. Mr. Shelleday Advised BLM to Stick with the Facts and the Truth
Would Prevail. Stuart Finley, a CPA, Talked About the BLM\'s Inventory
Procedures and Made Several Suggestions for Improvement. These Included
Looking at Alternatives Such as the Use of Computer Chips for Monitoring
Inventory and Recommending Inventories Be Taken at the End Of Each Year.
He Also Emphasized the Need for A Usable, Reliable Database, Complete
with Medical, Shipping And Receiving Data. Mr. Finley Suggested That BLM
Examine the Benefit of Using Warning Flags, Which Might Supply
Information Relating to The Number of Times an Animal Is Shipped to an
Adoption. Matthew Mackay‑smith, Editor of \"Equus Magazine,\" Looked at
the Program from the Horse\'s Perspective. He Noted That the Adoption
Program Could Be Improved by Encouraging Adopters to Get Involved from
the Gather Stage And by Giving the Horse and Adopter Time to Bond Before
Going Home. There Were Several Other Presentations Made to the Board.
Dr. Steve Jenkins from the University of Nevada‑reno Discussed
Population Modeling And the Use of Modeling in Developing Management
Plans for Implementing Fertility Control. Dr. Jay Kirkpatrick Gave a
Presentation on Fertility Studies, Specifically, Immunocontraception. We
Had a Chance to See His Field Work the next Day at the Kamma Mountains
in the Winnemucca Field Office. In Addition, Dr. Kirkpatrick Showed How
the Use of Immunocontraception Was a Successful Management Tool for The
National Park Service in Managing Their Assateague Island Wild Horses.
Dr. Chris Wemmer Spoke about the Smithsonian\'s Conservation and
Research Center and its Role in Advising BLM on the Management And
Research Strategy to Regulate Wild Horse and Burro Population Growth.
Jim Kennedy, a Representative of The Blackfeet Tribe in Montana, Spoke
about the Blackfeet\'s Goal To Create a Tribal Park for Wild Horses on
Their Reservation. They Would like to Reintroduce The Horse to Young
People of the Tribe and to Use it as a Teaching Experience. The Director
and the Board Agreed to Form Four Small Groups, Each Focusing on a
Different Issue. These Working Groups Will Address: Horses on the Range,
Horses off the Range, Science, And Addressing Burros as a Separate
Issue. Each Group Will Submit its Recommendations to the Director.
Director Shea Also Asked the Board to Look at How to Deal With the 6,000
Horses Now in the Pipeline. Pat Also Indicated That He Would Be Inviting
His Newly Appointed Science Board to Look at Research Relating to Wild
Horses And Burros. On the Second Day of the Advisory Board Meeting, We
Took The Opportunity to Go See the Wild Horse and Burro Program
Firsthand in the Field. The Board Went to Watch a Gather Of Horses at
the Kamma Mountains In the Winnemucca Field Office And to Visit the
Palomino Valley Corrals. We Were Able to See Some of the Horses Gathered
from the Kamma Mountains Examined, Vaccinated And Freeze Marked. The
Board Members Were Able to Talk with the Palomino Valley Veterinarian
about Animal Health Issues and Improving Animal Handling Processes. The
First Meeting of the Board Was a Great Success. We All Worked Together,
and I\'m Confident That it Will Be a Tremendous Resource for Those of Us
Who Work in the Wild Horse And Burro Program. We\'re Committed to
Working with The Board to Help Them Succeed With Their Work. I Wanted to
Reiterate What Robin Said about Working Together. The Field Offices Need
to Become Active Participants with the Board and Not Remain a Sideline
Observer. Npo Will Work with the Board and The Field Offices in
Providing Information on the Program. The Field Offices Should Keep
Their Local Resource Advisory Councils up to Date on the Activities of
the Board. Also the Racs Should Be Encouraged to Provide and Institute
Recommendations to the Board. The next Meeting of the Wild Horse and
Burro Advisory Board Will Be Held in Washington, D.c. On April 24th.
Tony, I Think They\'re off to a Good Start and It\'s a Fast Jump From
the Gate.

Garrett: Good to Hear That, Tom. Thank You. At this Point We\'ll Be
Moving Into Our Question and Answer Period. So If You Have a Question or
a Comment for Our Panel, Please Give Us a Call or Send Us a Fax. We\'ll
Try to Get to as Many of Your Questions as We Can in the Time Remaining.
To Begin Our Discussion, We Had A Question Faxed in Just a Few Minutes
Ago. This Is from Lewistown, Montana, And It\'s Directed to You, Pat. So
If You Would like to Take the First Response to It. What about
Legislation to Allow BLM to Euthanize the Old Diseased, Dying or Infirm
Horses In Order to Establish a Viable Herd of Healthy, Attractive and
Desirable Horses Which Would Be Better Able to Survive on the Range and
Would Be More Readily Adopted When Rounded up to Keep The Herd Numbers
down?

Dir. Shea: Interesting, Tony. Many People Think the Act Prohibits
Putting Horses Down, But, in Fact, Section 3b2 of the Act Specifically
Allows the Secretary or His Agent, the Director of BLM, to Do That Under
Certain Prescribed Settings. Now, There Have Been Conference Reports
That Have Had Restrictive Language That Have Been Interpreted by BLM to
Restrict That Ability, and One Of the Major Topics That the Wild Horse
and Burro Advisory Board Will Be Asked to Look at Is Establishing a
Protocol to Be Followed Strictly by BLM Before Euthanasia on Horses Is
Ever Considered or Used. I Think There\'s a Misperception As Well in
That Sometimes People Feel That Horses Are Unadoptable, and Robin Made
the Point to Me Last Night That It\'s Very Important to Think of How We
Can Get People Interested or Attracted to Adopting Horses That May Not
Fit in the Classic Conformations That People Think Of in Wild Horses.
These Animals Will Make Excellent Pets, and Really Ought to Be Focused
On. So I Will Be Asking the Advisory Board to Come up with a Definition
of Unadoptable That Will Then Be Used to Evaluate How the Process Is
Managed. Robin Might Have Some Comments As the Chair.

Garrett: Robin, Your Thoughts On That?

Lohnes: it Is a Very Good Question, a Very Timely Question And it
Certainly Is One Our Advisory Board Will Be Considering, the Subject of
Euthanasia. Unadoptable Horses Needs to Be Defined and That\'s One of
the Tasks Set Before Our Board.

Garrett: Sylvia, That\'s One Of the Issues, the Difficult Question of
Euthanizing. The Views of External Constituencies I Think Are
Particularly Important.

Baca: Yes, I Agree with That, Tony. I Know Last Year When We Pulled
Several Horses off of Nellis Air Force Base There Were Reports That a
Lot of The Horses Were, Indeed, Diseased and in Very Poor Condition. I
Think That We Certainly Need To Look at All the Humane Reasons for
Keeping an Animal Alive or Having to Make the Very Difficult Decision of
Having to Put the Animal down. I Did Have the Opportunity to Go Out to
Bartlesville Back in January, and I Did See a Few Horses That Had Been
Sent to the Horse Sanctuary That Were, in My Opinion Very Borderline,
and I Wondered What Sort of Decision Prompted Us to Keep That Animal
Alive. I Think That We Need to Have the Advice of a Veterinarian and
Also Look to the Board for Some Guidance in This, Because it Is A Very
Touchy Subject with the People out in the Horse Community.

Garrett: Let\'s Go to the Telephones Now. We Have Don on the Line from
Cheyenne, Wyoming and Don Has a Question about Herd Management And News
Media Coverage. Don, Good Morning.

Caller: Good Morning. I Have a Question Pertaining to Herd Management.
Basically, We Here in Wyoming Recently Issued a Notice of Intent to
Remove Wild Horses and Burros, And Part of That Was to Completely Remove
Horses from Outside Herd Management Areas. Yet Some Press Releases That
Came from Some of the Interest Groups Indicated That We Are Zeroing out
Herds. I\'d like to Direct it to Robin, How Could the Board Help Us to
Get Accurate Information out to The Public on Our Management Rather than
Inaccurate Information of this Type?

Lohnes: Don, That\'s an Excellent Question. One of the Things That Is
Absolutely a Necessity Is Trying To Get Proper Documentation. We Have
Several Members on the Board, for Example, Jack Artz. He Is Our
Rangeland Representative, and He Has Already Approached Me to Ask for
Assistance out of the Reno National Program Office to Obtain
Information, Accurate Information, on Forage, Availability and Documents
Dealing with Range Condition. It\'s That Kind of Information That We
Need to Make Decision on Whether Hmas Are Eventually Zeroed out. That\'s
Where We\'re Going to Be Looking for Assistance with Folks like You out
in the Field And the National Program Office.

Garrett: Pat, Your Thoughts On That.

Dir. Shea: Tony, One of the Things I Wanted to Follow up on That We Were
Discussing Again Last Night Is That Tom Informs Me That We Have 199 Herd
Management Areas That under the Act Are to Be Preserved. One of the
Difficulties, I Think As the National Director I Have Is Trying to
Determine What the Actual Numbers Are, and So I\'ll Be Asking Tom and
the National Staff to Look at Those Herd Management Areas, Determine
Those Areas That They Feel Are Accurately Counted and Those Areas Where
There Is an Inaccurate Count and We Have Been Finding Rather
Consistently That We\'ve Undercounted, Particularly in Nevada, We Will
Be Asking Tom and His Staff to Come up with an Accurate Number, And Do
Simultaneously an Analysis of Whether or Not the Range Area Where Those
Herds Are Located Can Sustain a Population Of Horses in That Number. So
I Think One of the Things That Mr. Finley, Our Accountant, Did Come to
Was an Extension, Really, of the Pierson Report. We Need to Have
Accurate Information and Once We Have That Accurate Information I Will
Be Using the Advisory Board to Tell Us What They Think Our Options Are,
Recognizing That at The End of the Day the National Director Has to Make
a Decision. But It\'s Going to Be, I Hope, a Public and Consensus‑based
Decision Rather than Some Imposition from Washington.

Garrett: All Right. We\'ll Go Back to the Phones in Just a Moment. Tom,
Maybe You Can Give Fred Burk of Phoenix a Quick Answer To the Question
That He Faxed In. It\'s Kind of a Nuts and Bolts Question, Not a \"Yes\"
or \"No\" Answer. Can We Obtain a Fifth Wheel and Stock Trailer ‑‑ You
May Have to Explain What That Is to Some of Us ‑‑ to Haul Portable
Corrals To Outlying Cities Where Horses Can Be Adopted in Outlying
Areas? \> Pogacnik: Well, the Fifth Wheel and Stock Trailer Is a Type of
Long Goose‑necked Type Trailer for Hauling Large Numbers of Wild Horses,
and I Guess What We\'re Looking at Is Trying to Find Some More Materials
and Potential for the Field People to Be Able to Carry Their Jobs
Forward. It\'s Just a Matter of Them Contacting Us at the National
Program Office to See If We Could Provide Sharing of Equipment from
Adjacent Offices And Then Look at Long‑term at Procuring That Equipment
So They Could Do the Job Better.

Dir. Shea: the One Thing I Said to Tom, after Watching the Gathering in
Winnemucca, Is That We Need To Explore Different Ways of Doing the
Gather. Sometimes We Do it in Such a Large Way We Lose Opportunities. I
Think Fred's, Who Is a Member of The Advisory Board, Question Also
Implies an Effort Using Volunteers in Someways of Having Smaller Gathers
and the Adoptions Occurring Rather Quickly So the Bonding Between The
Horse and the New Owner Could Occur in a More Suitable Situation than
Happens Sometimes Today. So I like the Idea and I Would Ask Tom to
Actively Explore it With Fred Who Is Outside Waiting And I\'m Sure
He\'ll Jump on Tom Anyway.

Garrett: Thanks to Fred Burk For Faxing in That Question. Let\'s Go Back
to the Phones Now. In Moore, Oklahoma, Debbie Is Calling and Debbie Has
a Question about Competitive Bidding. Good Morning, Debbie.

Caller: Good Morning. How Are You All Doing?

Garrett: Fine. Thank You.

Caller: My Question Has to Do With the Competitive Bid Process. From a
Public Affairs Aspect, I Get Questions Nationwide And, of Course Our
Office in Moore Has Been Doing the Competitive Bid For Quite a While
Now, but I Get Calls from All over the United States That Have Been
Hearing a Little Bit about the Competitive Bid, and They Don\'t Know
What The Other Offices Are Doing. It\'s Difficult to Effectively Assist
Them Without Having to Bounce Them Around to Other Offices That Might
Have That Information. So I Was Wondering If There Is a Goal in Mind as
to Every Office Going Nationwide with a Competitive Bid, or Is it Going
To Continue to Be Each Office Will Make Their Own Decision And, If So,
Will There Be Some Time Frame That We\'re Going to Know What Each Office
Has Decided So We Can Better Assist The General Public When this Type of
Question Comes Up?

Garrett: Thank You, Debbie. Pat, Would You like to Field That Question?

Dir. Shea: It\'s a Good Question. I Have Been Adjusting, as I\'ve Gone
On, as to What Facts Come To My Attention. I Felt That in Some Instances
There Had Been an Awful Lot of Preadoption Discussion Going On. So Some
People Were Feeling like They Were Essentially Getting a Bargain. What I
Am Looking to the Advisory Board to Do Is to Come Up with a Process That
Will Allow the Gathers to Separate Those Horses Who Have a Conformation
That People from Their Experience Believe Will Be Highly Desirable.
Those Horses Will Be Put into a Competitive Bid Situation, Wherever
They\'re Going to Be Going. Other Horses Who May Not Have The Right
Conformation or May Not Be Seen as Being Highly Adoptable Will Probably
Be Put Into a Flat Fee That Will Also Be Told to the Adoption Sites
Before That Occurs. Finally, We Will Be Looking, and The Blackfeet
Nation Is a Good Example, at Some Areas Where We Can Have a Large Number
of Adoptions Pursuant to the Guidelines of the Regulations About
Qualified Adopters, but That Will Allow the Horses, like We Do in
Kentucky Now, to Be Used for Training Programs with Troubled Youth or
with Prisons. Inmates Train Them and Then They Are Adopted Elsewhere.
We\'re Going to Be Exploring That. But the First Instance Will Be Those
That Will Be Highly Desirable Will Be on a Competitive Bid Basis. Those
That Don\'t Have the Same Conformation Will Be on a Flat Fee. And Each
of the Adoption Sites Will Have That Information in Advance of the
Adoption.

Garrett: Ok, Debbie?

Caller: Thank You.

Garrett: Thanks for Calling This Morning. All Right. Let\'s Go to Glade
in Salt Lake, And Glade Has a Question about The Number of Animals in
Facilities. Good Morning?

Caller: Good Morning. My Question Relates to the Large Number of Animals
That We Have Presently in Facilities, Whether We Will Be Able to Make a
Significant Reduction in Those Animals Prior to the Gathering Season
Starting Again in July, And I Guess My Question Is, I Think That We Need
to Address Nontraditional Avenues in Our Adoptions and I\'m Not Sure We
Have the Right Skill Mix or the Right Knowledge to Do That. Is Any
Progress Being Made to Contact a Marketing Firm or Someone Outside to
Help Us Change the Image and Reach a Different Type of Adopters?

Garrett: All Right, Glade, Thanks for the Question. Tom, Would You like
to Field That One? \> Pogacnik: Yes, as You Know, We Have Worked on
Establishing the Western States Adoption Strategy As One of the
Innovative Approaches to Try and Address The Large Number of Animals
Within the Facilities. That Will Involve the Sharing of People and
Resources Across State Lines to Improve Our Efficiency and Try and Move
Some Of Those Animals Through the System. We\'re Also Going to Be
Looking At the Same Concept and Other Alternatives in Different Parts Of
the Country in the near Future. As Far as the Public Outreach Aspects
Go, Janet Nordin of the National Wild Horse and Burro Program Will Be
Coordinating and Heading up Some of Our Attempts To Contact Marketing
Firms Around the United States and Try To Get a Better Idea as to Who
Are Our Clientele and How to Reach out to Folks Who Aren\'t Aware of the
Wild Horse and Burro Program, Who May Be Excellent Adopters. Then
Utilizing More Outreach and Education to Try and Bring More People into
the Adoption Program.

Garrett: Sylvia, Any Thoughts On That Question of the Current
Populations?

Baca: Yes. I Think That 6,000 Horses in Holding Facility Is Not in the
Best Interest of the Government And I Don\'t Think It\'s in the Best
Interest of the Horses to Be in These Holding Facilities. I Think We
Would Much Prefer That These Horses Would Be out In Homes with People
Who Could Care for Them and Give Them a Good Lifestyle. I Think That
Tom\'s Right\... We Have to Look for a Number of Ways to Deal with
Getting These 6,000 Horses out of the Facilities, and It\'s Going to
Mean That We Have to Perhaps Look to a New Marketing Strategy And Look
to People Outside of The Bureau as Well to Give Us Ideas. Tom Talked
about the Western States Strategy, and the Idea Behind That Concept Was
That We Don\'t Think That We Should Be Taking Horses Across the Country
When We May Have a Viable Population Who Wants to Adopt Them Close By. I
Think Pat Talked about this Earlier. We Are Really Hoping That We Will
Get Some Good Advice on Marketing Them Here in the West And Keeping Them
as Close to Home as Possible. Some of These Horses Are Not in The Best
Condition to Travel Across the Country. We All Know That When We Do
That, You Will End up with Horses Running The Risk of Spreading
Infection, Of Getting to Their Destination Not Looking in the Best Shape
That They Could for the People Out There Who Want to Adopt Them. So I
Think We Have to Look to a Number of Different Strategies To Get the
6,000 Horses out.

Garrett: Pat, Some Comments On That Question?

Dir. Shea: That\'s Where, Tony, I Really Want to Emphasize To the
Members of the BLM Family, this Is ‑‑ You Have the Answers, and Quite
Frankly I Think Sometimes We Need to Adjust Our Attitude about What
Horses Are Desirable and What Horses Aren\'t. I Believe from the E‑mail
I\'ve Gotten, from the Conversations I\'ve Had, and Certainly from
Conversations with Jack and Robin, We Need to Have Ourselves Convinced
That We Have a Responsibility That Is Very Serious and That Being
Fulfilled We Can Find Homes for These Animals. So I Really Would
Encourage You To Redouble Your Effort in Thinking about How the Adoption
Program Could Be Improved to Make it More Effective. The Costs That
We\'re Incurring Of ‑‑ Several Hundred Thousand Dollars Each Month in
January, February and March Can\'t Be Sustained. We\'re Going to Have to
Have a Better, I Think, Delivery Timetable from the Time The Horse Is
Taken off the Range Until a Good Home Is Found for Them. Instead of
Having Some Horses in Our Facilities for Eight or Nine Months, We Need
to Cut it down To at Least One or Two Months And No More.

Garrett: Thanks for Telephoning That Question In. Does That Answer Your
Concerns?

Caller: Yes. Thank You.

Garrett: Let\'s Go to Another Call Now and We Have Brenda in Kingman,
Arizona. Brenda Has a Question about Funding. Good Morning, Brenda.

Caller: Good Morning. We Recognize the Attention That\'s Being Given to
this Program and That BLM Needs to Accomplish More in Order to Improve
Our Management of Wild Horses and Burros. However, Adequate Funding Is
Not Getting Down to the Field Level Where We Need it to Conduct
Censuses, Gathers, Get Our Monitoring Done And Take Care of the Animals
We Have in Our Corrals. My Question Is: What Is the Outlook for Funding
for this Program? And What Can Be Done to Get More Funds to the Field
Where We Can Meet the Program Commitments That We\'ve Made?

Garrett: Pat?

Dir. Shea: Yesterday, Brenda, I Sat Through a Briefing on a Management
Information System, M.i.s. As a Test for That, I Said, Show Me How Many
Hours Have Been Spent in Nevada on the Wild Horse and Burro Program. We
Now Have a Software Data System That in Real Time Will Allow Tom and
Other Managers at The National Level to See How We Are Allocating Our
Resources. Quite Frankly, with the BLM Being Managed State by State,
There Has Not Been the Consistency of the Money Flow From the Washington
Office to The Field. So You Will See by the Adoption Of the M.i.s. in
the Field I Think a Greater Accessibility to It. The Present Budget this
Year Includes a 2 1/2 Million Dollar Increase. I\'m Thinking, and Again
this Will Be a Topic That the Wild Horse and Burro Board Will Be Looking
At, That We\'ll Probably Split That Increase Between Research, Because I
Think There\'s Some Necessary Research on Fertility Control That Needs
to Be Done That Hasn\'t Been Done, and a Focus on the Adoption Side of
The Program. So I Also Want to Emphasize Something You Mentioned in Your
Question. I Think Field Monitoring of These Horses Is Highly Neglected
Now, and If We Refocus the Time Of the Field Managers to Get to Know
These Herds, We\'re Going to Be Able to Manage Them Better.

Garrett: All Right, Brenda?

Caller: Thank You.

Garrett: Thank You for Calling. Let\'s Go to Another Call. Gene in
Ridgecrest and Gene Has A Question about Adoption Fees. Gene, Good
Morning.

Caller: Good Morning! What My Question Is, Has There Been Any
Consideration to Lowering Those Adoption Fees That We Shot Ourselves in
the Foot by Raising? I Feel That We Could Lower Them Back to Where They
Were, and Go Beyond That with the Older Horses and Older Burros, Even.
We\'re Holding Horses Just Due to The Expensive Adoption Fees. We\'re
Not Going to Pay off the National Debt with It. We Are Paying \$150 to
\$160 a Ton For Hay. We Could Have Moved a Lot of These Horses. I Have
Been in the Program since 1971, and this Is the First Year That I\'ve
Ever Had Burros Standing So Long We Had to Trim The Feet on Them.

Garrett: Gene Sounds like the Voice of Experience There. What Are Your
Thoughts on That Question? \> Pogacnik: Gene, the Increase In Adoption
Fees Goes Back to The 1992 Wild Horse and Burro Advisory Board, Which
Recommended Raising the Fees up To Make Adoption Fees for Burros
Comparable with That of Wild Horses, and There\'s a Number of Reasons
Why We Had Raised the Fees on the Adoption. The Biggest One Was to
Ensure That People Are Not Trying to Profit From Wild Horse and Burro
Adoptions. If Somebody Is Going to Adopt an Animal for an Extremely Low
Fee, That Just Appears We\'re Trying To Get Rid of Horses; That They
Have No Value; And, That Makes It More Enticing for Somebody to Try and
Make a Profit off of These Animals. By Raising the Fee and Then Also
Looking at the Competitive Bidding Process, it Allows People to Expend a
Little More Money for the Horses, Yes, but It Also Adds Greater Value to
Those Animals and Discourages People Trying to Abuse the Program.

Garrett: Robin Just Passed Me A Note That Says \" ‑‑ Gene, Are You Still
with Us?

Caller: You Bet.

Garrett: Robin Has a Question For You.

Lohnes: Gene, Because I Am Chair of the Advisory Board, These Are the
Kinds of Things We Want to Hear from You Guys out In the Field and I
Would Be Curious as to Know What ‑‑ Why You Think You Have Burros
Standing Around Waiting for Adoption Homes. Is it Just Because of the
Fees? Is it Because Satellite Adoptions Have Been Handled Differently in
the past Year? Could You Enlighten Me, Please?

Caller: I Think It\'s a Combination of Both. My Understanding Is That in
Some Areas Back East That They Aren\'t Allowed to Adopt a Jenny Without
Taking a Jack. That Makes Somebody Wanting a Jenny Burro Having to Pay
250 Bucks and Not Want this Jack and What Happens to Him? The Fact this
Winter That We Haven\'t Had the Satellite Adoptions May Have Been
Slower, But I\'ve Talked to Eastern States, Art Degrazia in Particular.
He Feels the Adoption Fee Being Raised Has Caused, You Know, for a Jenny
And a Foal 250 Bucks Now Versus \$75 Before Makes Quite a Difference to
People. I Don\'t Feel That the Fee Is Going to Make Them Any More
Responsible. We Have to Do Our Pre-adoption Inspection With the Person
That Pays \$5 for An Animal as Well as We Do for One That Pays \$5,000.
So They Still Have to Be Cleared Through Their Application. So I Don\'t
Agree with That at All.

Dir. Shea: Tony, If I Could Add One Thing to Robin\'s Question by Way of
Comment\... The Pierson Report Requested, Instructed, That a Database Be
Established, and We Have Within In the Last Three Months Sent Out
Letters to Owners from the Last Five Years Asking If, in Fact, They\'ve
Gotten Title. I Think as We Improve the Database We Will Have Greater
Flexibility on the Pricing Side. I Think Tom\'s Point I Accept, That
Sometimes, Particularly for First‑time Owners, the Idea That You Can Get
a Horse or Burro for \$100 to \$150 Attracts Them Without Their
Understanding the Cost Both In Time and in Terms of Actual Dollars it
Takes to Train Those Horses. So I Think the 1992 Recommendation Is Still
Valid in My Mind, but I Think with Better Data We Will Be Able to Have
Greater Flexibility to Get the Horses and Burros to Adoptable
Situations.

Garrett: Gene, Thanks for Calling in this Morning.

Caller: You Bet You. You Guys Take Care.

Garrett: Let\'s Go Now to Valerie in Colorado, and Valerie Has a
Question about Herd Management Areas. Good Morning, Valerie.

Caller: Good Morning. Hi, Tom, Hi Robin. Some of Us Have Discussed the
Concept of Opening Wild Horse Herd Areas Which Are Currently Closed to
Management into Herd Management Areas Which Are Specifically Targeted
for Our Older, Unadoptable Animals, Recognizing That this Concept Would
Require Some Extensive Planning. I\'d like to Ask Tom and Robin For
Their Thoughts on Whether This Is a Topic That Could Go Before Our
Advisory Council?

Lohnes: Valerie, Another Good Question. It Definitely Is One of the
Issues That Is Before Our Advisory Board. Any Time You\'re Dealing with
Reintroducing Animals That Have Already Come off the Lands, We Have to
Keep in Mind That They Have Been Exposed to Disease, They Have Already
Been Vaccinated and They\'ve Had Blood Drawn. We Would Have to Consider
Very Carefully How We Would Reintroduce Them Back onto the Rangeland in
Order to Not Compromise Their Medical Condition. But it Certainly Is a
Viable Alternative and it Is One That The Board Has on its List of
Things to Consider.

Garrett: Tom? \> Pogacnik: Valerie, as You Know, We Have Done Relocation
of Horses in the past and We\'ve Had Mixed Success. Some of the Animals
Try to Get Back to Where They Came from. Others Are Incorporated and
Adapt Well to Their New Homes. But as You Mentioned, it Would Take Quite
a Bit of up Front Monitoring Data, Some Good Planning, a Lot of
Discussions With the Local Groups, and a Strong Effort to Ensure That If
We Do Relocate Animals, Be it a Couple or a Large Number, That It\'s
Done with the Best Interest Of the Animals in Mind. That\'s Going to
Take a Lot of Planning and a Lot of Monitoring Data.

Garrett: All Right. Valerie, Does That Answer Your Question?

Caller: Yes, it Sure Does. Thanks a Lot.

Garrett: Good. Thanks for Calling in this Morning. Let\'s Go to a Fax
Question That Just Came in and this Is from The Burns District in
Oregon. Interaction Between the Advisory Board and BLM Field Offices Has
Been Encouraged. What Is the Protocol for the Field to Interact with the
Advisory Board? And Who Should We Contact? People in the Field. Pat, Do
You Have Thoughts on That.

Dir. Shea: Yes, Tom Is Going To Be Playing an Ever Increasing, Important
Role in Bridging Between the Advisory Board and the Field. I Think in
the First Few Instances it Will Probably Be Through Tom with Robin and
Jack\'s Help That There Will Be Some Planned Interaction. I Have Told
the Advisory Board Members That They Should Be Free To Contact the
Field, to Discuss Matters with Them, but Theirs Is An Advisory Role.
They Do Not Formulate Policy. And I Would Discourage Anybody From
Deciding in the Field That, Well, the Advisory Member Said This, And,
Therefore, I\'m Going To Do this. That Needs To, as a National Program,
Be Carefully Coordinated Both Through the Director of BLM and Through
Sylvia and Bob Armstrong at the Assistant Secretary Level. So I Would
Encourage the Interaction as to Seeking Advice, Getting Advice, but
Let\'s Not Change the Policy Until We\'ve Had a Full Airing Before the
Advisory Board and Then it Is Put out as Policy by The National Office.

Garrett: Thanks to Dean in The Burns District for Faxing in That
Question. Let\'s Go to Another Telephone Call Now and Talk to John in
Battle Mountain, Nevada, and John Has a Question about Genetic Issues.
Good Morning, John.

Caller: Good Morning. Currently Here in Nevada Horses Gathered from Herd
Management Areas That Do Not Fit the Description of Old, Sick or Lame
But Have Genetic Defects Such as Blindness or Clubbed Feet Are Turned
out on the Public Lands To Reproduce. I Would like to See Pat Shea and
Robin Lohnes Address This and in the Future Come up With Some Kind of a
Policy as to How to Deal with These Types of Animals.

Garrett: Pat?

Dir. Shea: John, Thank You. It Is a Very Important Topic, One That, in
Fact, on the Bus Ride out to Winnemucca We Discussed Rather Extensively.
Dr. Messer, Who Is the Veterinarian on the Board, Dr. Mackay‑smith, Also
a Veterinarian, Robin, Myself, Dawn and Others, We Think There Will Be
after the April Meeting, a Set of Protocols That Will Be Given to Tom to
Be Distributed in the Field That Will Describe Those Instances Where
Animals Should Be Put Back Into the Field, What Procedures, Including
Gelding, Might Be Pursued to Make Sure That the Reproductive Capacity Is
Eliminated, and in Some Instances, If the Protocols Established by the
Veterinarians, Would Actually Have the Animal Put down. That Would Be a
Rare, Rare Exception and as Sylvia Said Earlier, Taken Only, I Think,
After the Most Serious Kind of Consideration. So I\'m Looking to Having
the Advisory Board Make Some Recommendations on Protocols There.

Garrett: Very Sensitive Question, Robin. Some Thoughts on That.

Lohnes: as You Know, Some of The Defects Are Truly Genetic in Nature,
Club Feet, Parrot Mouth. Genetic Defects Such as Those Certainly Are a
Factor, and as Pat Says, it Is Going to Be One Of the Issues That the
Board and With the Great Help of Both Dr. Messer and Also Dr.
Mackay‑smith Will Be Very Helpful with. So We Want to Be Able to
Identify Those Types of Genetic Defects to Help You Guys out in The
Field When You Have to Make These Hard Decisions. You Have to Have Some
Kind of Consistent Reference to Go By.

Garrett: John, Thanks for Calling in this Morning.

Caller: Thank You.

Garrett: Let\'s Go to One Last Call Now and Speak with Ron in Bakers
Field, California, and Ron Has a Question about Titling. Good Morning,
Ron.

Caller: Good Morning. I Had a Question for the Director and Perhaps for
Robin. It Has to Do with Titling, and Specifically as to the Requirement
of Not Being Able to Pass Title until a Year Is up After the Adoption.
We All Know We Have a Lot of Rube Goldberg Procedures out There in Our
Compliance Program, The National Program Office Issues 180‑day Random
Numbers That We\'re Required To Do. We Have the Pierson Report That
Requires Us to Do So Much Within A Certain Time Period. Plus We Have the
General Backlog. Is There Anyway That in Our Enhanced Screening If We
Can Come up with a Better Procedure That We Can Go Forward to the Board
That We Can Transfer Title at the Time of Adoption? Because in this
Mobile Society That We Have, We Have Horses Going All over the Place,
Particularly Here in California. It\'s a Considerable Effort To Track
down These Animals. If We Can Somehow Transfer Title At the Time of
Adoption, We Can Alleviate a Lot of the Issues Associated with the
Compliance Program.

Garrett: ‑‑

Dir. Shea: That Would Be a Simple Solution to a Complex Problem and
Personally I Don\'t Think it Would Work Without Congress Saying That it
Was Acceptable. The Way the 1971 Act Is Written, We Have a Continuing
Obligation Until Title Is Transferred. Some of the Advocacy Groups,
Indeed, Argue That We Have a Responsibility Beyond That. We Do Not
Accept That. But I Think We Would Be in an Untenable Position If When
the Horse Was Adopted We Immediately Transferred Title and I Would
Personally Not Take That Before The Wild Horse Advisory Board. Robin?

Lohnes: I Would Add, Though, That the Problem You\'re Describing Is
Tracking the Adopters During That One‑year Period and Perhaps There\'s
Something That The Advisory Board Can Take a Closer Look at in Terms of
Tracking to Help You All out in The Field and the Compliance to Actually
Make Sure You Know Where These Individuals Are During That One‑year
Period. The Advisory Board Would Be More Than Happy to Try to Identify
Improvements in That Area.

Garrett: Thanks For Calling In, Ron. We\'re Nearing The End of Our
Program Now. So I\'d Like to Ask Sylvia And Pat For Any Closing Comments
They May Have. Sylvia, Any Final Thoughts For Our Viewers This Morning?

Baca: Yes. Thank You, Tony. I Would Just Like to Underscore Something
That We Talked About Earlier, And it Doesn\'t Have to Do With Horses And
Burros as Much as it Has to Do With People. This Has Been a Very
Troubled Program at Times, And The Mission You\'ve Been Given Is a
Challenge. There\'s No Question About That. But Within This Very
Specialized Group of People Watching This Telecast, We Have The
Experience, The Skill And The Dedication to Make The Program Work. Our
Job at The Department And at The Headquarters Level Is That ‑‑ And What
We Owe You Is a Mission That Is Clearly Defined And Achievable And The
Resources To Get The Job Done. With All of Us Doing Our Part,
Coordinating Our Efforts, Communicating With One Another And Standing by
Those Common Visions, I Know That We Will Succeed. Thank You Very Much.

Garrett: Thank You, Sylvia. And We Appreciate Your Being Here This
Morning, Your Perspective Both From Your Previous Role as Acting
Director And Ongoing Role Representing The Department in The Assistant
Secretary\'s Office. Pat, Final Words?

Dir. Shea: Yes, I Am Holding Up \"High Country News.\" I Think it Has a
Fairly Good Summary of the Horse and Burro Program. I Commend to it Your
Reading. I Want People to Understand We Have a New Book out Called
\"Beyond the National Parks." I Think I Echo Sylvia\'s Comments. People
Watching this Program Have the Solution Not Just for The Wild Horse and
Burro Program But I Think for the Health of The Organization of the BLM.
Should We, as I Believe We Will, Succeed in Making this Program a
Hallmark of Success, We Will Have Brought the Program to Where it
Deserves to Be, and Was Anticipated to Be in 1971. I Believe with Your
Intelligence And Efforts We Will Make That Difference. Flying over
Wyoming and Seeing The Horses on the Open Plain Was A Remarkable Sight I
Will Always Hold in My Memory from Last October. I Think It\'s That Kind
of Vision We Need to Share. We Need to Believe That We Have Horses That
Can Find Homes and That We Are the Facilitators of That. So with the
Leadership That Sylvia Has Shown, That Each of You Have Felt, and with
the Help Of Robin and Jack and Other Members of the Wild Horses Advisory
Board and with Tom\'s Leadership at the National Office, I Believe We
Can Succeed At this Program.

Garrett: and That\'s Our Update on the BLM\'s Wild Horse And Burro
Program. Again, I Would like to Recommend All Downlink Sites to Fax Us
the Information on the Number of Views at Your Site. We Would like to
Know How Many Horse and Burro Program Specialists Watched Today\'s Show,
How Many Managers and How Many Other BLM Employees Were Able to View the
Telecast Today. Please Fax this Information to NTC Immediately. And I
Would like to Thank Pat And Sylvia and Robin and Tom for Being with Us
Today. On Behalf of the Panel and Behalf of Staff Here at the National
Training Center in Phoenix, Who Helped Us Get this Program on the Air,
Thanks to All of You for Joining Us this Morning. Announcer: Here\'s a
Look at Upcoming Broadcast on the BLM Sat Night Network. Next Monday the
Arizona State Office Will Conduct an Electronic Town Hall for Arizona
BLM Employees. On Thursday, March 19th, a Program on Conflict Management
In a Changing Work Force Will Be Presented for All Employees. On March
26th, a Training Seminar Which Provides a Management Overview of the
Wild Horse and Burro Program Will Be Broadcast. On April 8th, the
National Wildfire Coordinating Group Will Present an Interagency
Telecast On the New Fire Policy. And an Irm and Almrs Forum Scheduled
for April 22nd Will Take an On‑the‑ground Look at The Deployment of
Almrs in New Mexico. And the Road to Successful Weed Management for BLM
Managers Will Be the Focus of a Telecast on May 14th Of. To Help Your
Office Participate In Future Telecasts, See the BLM Satellite Downlink
Guide and Visit the NTC Home Page on the World Wide Web. NTC\'s Enter
Address is www.ntc.blm.gov. Transcripts of this Program and Other NTC
Broadcasts Are Available on the Home Page. For More Information on
Upcoming Distance Learning Events, as Well as Traditional Courses, Call
the Training Center at 602‑906‑5500. Or Visit the Home Page. This
Broadcast Has Been a Production of the BLM National Training Center.