NAME\...EMMA STEWARD MARCH 29,1993 INTERVIEW

TRANSCRIBED BY GENE WOOD,PARK VOLUNTEER,MARCH 22,1999

I\-\--STANDS FOR INTERVIEWER

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--STANDS FOR BILL BLACK,ASSISTING RANGER TONI COOPER

WITH THE INTERVIEW

INITIALS STANDS FOR NAME OF PERSON BEING INTERVIEWED

NAMES OF PLACES AND PERSONS ARE SPELLED AS HEARD,BUT NOT NECESSARILY
CORRECT.

WORDS WHICH ARE NOT CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD ARE IN BRACKETS \[\]

TAPE IS INDENTIFIED BY WRITING ON THE TAPE AND BY THE LETTER B

ON THE ORIGINAL TAPE.

TODAYS DATE IS MARCH 29TH.,1993, THE TIME IS 11 A.M.,THE FORDYCE

VISITOR CENTER CONFERENCE ROOM,MY NAME IS RANGER TONI COOPER,ALONG

WITH BILL BLACK,AND THIS MORNING WE ARE INTERVIEWING MRS.EMMA STEWARD.

I\-\--MRS.STEWARD,HOW ARE YOU TODAY ?

ES\-\--FINE,THANK YOU,AND YOU ?

I\-\--GOOD\....MRS.STEWARD,WHICH BATHHOUSE OR BATHHOUSES DID YOU WORK
IN,AND AT WHAT OCCUPATION ?

ES\-\--I FIRST BEGAN WORKING AT THE PITHIAN BATHHOUSE,AND I ONLY

WORKED THERE AS A MASSEUSE. AT PRESENT I\'M WORKING AT THE ARLINGTON.

I\-\--COULD YOU TELL US HOW YOU GOT STARTED IN THE BATH-HOUSE INDUSTRY ?

ES\-\--I TOOK A COURSE WITH MR.FRED FAMIER OVER AT WHAT IS KNOWN NOW

AS THE OH,\[WORD UNCLEAR\] CENTER,ON SPRING STREET,AND I WENT TO SCHOOL
THERE FOR FIVE AND A HALF MONTHS,AND AFTER I FINISHED MY COURSE THERE,I
TOOK STATE BOARD WITH MR.FRED FAMIER\'S FATHER,AT THE TIME,I DON\'T KNOW
WHY,THEN I,MR.STEVENSON WAS THE MANAGER OF THE

PITHIAN BATHHOUSE AND HE HIRED ME AS A MASSEUSE ON MARCH THE FIRST,

19 AND 70,19 AND 60,19 AND 60 AND I WORKED THERE 10 YEARS,OH\...\....

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--WHAT KIND OF SALARY DID YOU GET WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED
?

ES\-\--WHEN I FIRST STARTED WORK,I MADE A DOLLAR-THIRTEEN CENTS A

MASSAGE,AND FOR OH,TWO,FOR A WEEK OF PAY WE WOULD GET \$59.00,THAT

WAS OUR PAY.

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--WHAT TYPE OF TIPS DID YOU GET ?

ES\-\--OUR TIPS AVERAGED FROM \$.50 A MASSAGE,SOMETIMES,IF FOR,WE HAD

PEOPLE OUTTA\' ILLINOIS,MICHIGAN,WE WOULD GET PROBABLY A DOLLAR,DOLLAR
AN\'A QUARTER,SOMETIMES WE WOULD GET LITTLE GIFTS\...

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--WHAT KIND OF GIFTS ?

ES\-\--GIFTS WOULD BE LIKE SEWING KITS,A \[PRETTY\] HANDKERCHIEF,OR
MAYBE

SOME NAIL POLISH,OR SOME LEFT-OVER PERFUME\.....

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--WERE THOSE GIFTS GIVEN TO YOU IN PERSON OR WERE THEY
SENT TO

YOU LATER ?

ES\-\--THEY WAS GIVEN TO US IN PERSON,OR USUALLY THEY WOULD SEND US
LIKE,EASTER TIME OR CHRISTMAS,THEY WOULD SEND US CANDY OR FRUIT\...

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--SO THEY DID REMEMBER YOU AFTER THE BATHS ?

ES\-\--THEY ALWAYS REMEMBER US,A LOTS O\' TIMES PEOPLE WOULD SEND US
CARDS OH,AT CHRISTMAS TIME,ESPECIALLY HOLIDAYS,THEY WOULD SEND US CARDS
OR SOMETIMES WE WOULD GET PHONE CALLS FROM PEOPLE,TELLIN\' US

THAT THEY,WHEN THEY WILL RETURN.

I\-\--YOU SAID YOU ARE A MASSEUSE,MRS.STEWARD,SO WHAT IS YOUR ROUTINE

AS A MASSEUSE ?

ES\-\--AS A ROUTINE,ALL I DO IS GIVE MASSAGES,OH\.....

I\-\--ARE PHYSICALS REQUIRED FOR THIS POSITION,DO YOU HAVE TO TAKE A
PHYSICAL ?

ES\-\--OH,EVERY YEAR,WE HAVE TO TAKE A PHYSICAL,WE HAVE TO GO,AH,MOST

OF THE TIME NOW,WE GO TO DR.\[FODIO\],OR WE GO TO OUR FAMILY DOCTOR FOR
OUR PHYSICAL OR FOR OUR HEALTH SHOT,WE GO OVER TO THE HEALTH CENTER.

I\-\--DID MANY PEOPLE COME YEAR AFTER YEAR BECAUSE YOU GAVE THEM THE
MASSAGE AND ASK SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU ?

ES\-\--I HAD A GREAT ATTENDANCE THAT COME BACK EVERY YEAR,OH EVER SINCE
I\'VE BEEN A MASSEUSE FOR THIRTY-THREE YEARS,I HAD RETURNEES

AND THEY BECOME LIKE A FAMILY,EACH YEAR THEY COMES BACK AND THAT\'S

A GREAT RELATIONSHIP.

I\-\--WHERE DID SOME OF THESE PEOPLE COME FROM,LIKE JUST ALL OVER ?

ES\-\--ALL OVER\...WHEN I FIRST STARTED AT THE PITHIAN,MOST OF THE
PEOPLE

WAS LIKE AH,CALIFORNIA;OR SHREVEPORT,LOUISANNA,IN JUNE AFTER SCHOOL WAS
OUT;CHICAGO,ILLINOIS;MICHIGAN;MILWAUKEE;UM,FROM NEW YORK; WE JUS\' GET
PEOPLE FROM EVERYWHERE. IN THE THIRTY-THREE YEARS THAT I

WORKED,I\'VE DID PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY.

I\-\--DID YOU EVER BATH ANYBODY FAMOUS OR WELL KNOWN,THAT YOU REMEMBER ?

ES\-\--NEVER,NEVER HAD THAT OPPORTUNITY. BY TIME I STARTED TO WORK,

MOST OF THE MOVIE STARS OR FAMOUS PEOPLE HAD SORTA STOPPED COMIN\',

AH,TO OUR BUILDIN\',THERE WAS A TIME WHEN WE DID HAVE MOVIE STARS AT THE
VAPORS,BUT MOST O\' THE TIME THEY STAYED IN LITTLE ROCK OR THE

MAJESTIC.

I\-\--WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER MOST ABOUT WORKING AT THE PITHIAN ?

ES\-\--AT THE PITHIAN,IT WAS MORE LIKE A FAMILY TYPE,OH,BECAUSE WE WAS

ALL AH,WE JUST ENJOYED EACH OTHER,WE EVEN WENT TO THE SAME CHURCH,

OR WE WAS IN THE CLUB TOGETHER OR THEY,THEY WERE FAMILY MEMBERS THAT
WORKED THERE,I THINK I WAS \'BOUT THE ONLY PERSON THAT WORKED THAT DID
NOT HAVE FAMILY THAT WORKED IN THE BATHHOUSE BECAUSE I AM

THE ONLY MEMBER OF MY FAMILY HERE,SO THAT\'S WHERE I WAS SORTA\' LEFT
OUT AN\' I HAD TO JOIN THE REST OF THE FAMILY.

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--WHERE WAS YOUR FAMILY ORIGINALLY ?

ES\-\--MY FAMILYS\' IN LOUISIANNA.

I\-\--AT THE PITHIAN,ARE THERE STILL ANY WOMEN OR MEN THAT USED TO WORK
IN THE PITHIAN,THAT ARE STILL LIVIN\' TODAY,THAT YOU RECALL ?

ES\-\--OH YES\...MRS.ELEANOR HORTON WAS OUR UM,WAS OUR BATHHOUSE MANAGER
AT THE TIME,AND WE HAVE ETHEL PEPPERS WAS A BATH ATTENDER,UM,AN\'
THERE\'S SEVERAL LADIES THAT ARE STILL LIVIN\'.

I\-\--IF YOU CAN THINK OF THOSE NAMES A LITTLE BIT LATER,WOULD YOU MIND

CALLIN\' US BACK,WOULD YOU GET IN TOUCH WITH US ?

ES\-\--ELLA MAE GUY,ELLA MAE GUY WAS A BATH ATTENDER.

I\-\--OKAY\...

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--DO YOU FEEL THAT PARK SHOULD COME BACK WITH THE
INSPECTIONS

THE WAY THEY USED TO,UN-ANNOUNCED,TO WALK IN,TO MAKE SURE THE
TEMPERATURE IS RIGHT ?

ES\-\--I CERTAINLY THINK SO BECAUSE EVEN IN MY PERSONAL JOB,I FEEL THAT
WE ARE LOSIN\' A LOTS OF PATRONIZEN BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE THINGS THAT
THE PARK SERVICE DID WHEN THEY USED TO JUS\' WALK
IN,UN-ANNOUNCED,OH,SOMETIMES IT\'S TOO HOT OR IF THE HEAT NEEDS TO BE

REGULATED,AND THERE\'S JUS\' SEVERAL THINGS THAT UH,WE JUS\' EXPECTED

WOULD HAPPEN WHEN THE PARK SERVICE WOULD JUS\' WALK IN UN-ANNOUNCED.

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--DO YOU THINK AH,AS FAR AS THE PHYSICAL BATHING AREA,
WOULD

BE IMPROVED IF THE PARK WAS LOOKING IN ?

ES\-\--I BELIEVE SO\...I BELIEVE SO\....YES\....

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE BATHING\....

ES\-\--IT WOULD BE. I BELIEVE THAT OH,OUR YOUNG BATHERS SHOULD HAVE

MORE SCHOOLIN\',OR THAT WAY THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE VARE OF THE
CLIENTS BETTER. OH,NOT SAYIN\' THAT THEY\'RE NOT DOIN\' A GOOD JOB BUT I
FEEL THAT AH,SOME NEW INSTRUCTION FROM THE PARK SERVICE WOULD HELP THEM
TO DO A BETTER JOB.

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--WHICH IN TURN,WOULD ATTRACT MORE PEOPLE ?

ES\-\--I WOULDN\'T SAY THAT IT WOULD ATTRACT MORE PEOPLE BECAUSE WE DO
GET A GOOD AH,NUMBER O\' PEOPLE,IT MIGHT BE THAT WE WOULD HAVE MORE
RETURNEES.

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--RIGHT !

ES\-\--RIGHT !

I\-\--MRS.STEWARD,DID THE HEAT, DOES THE HEAT IN THE BATHHOUSE EVER

BOTHER YOU OR ARE YOU USED TO THE HEAT ? I MEAN IT\'S A LITTLE BIT WARM
IN THE BATHHOUSE BECAUSE OF THE THERMAL WATER ?

ES\-\--WE,WE,WE ARE ACCUSTOMED TO THE HEAT,BUT SOME TIMES THE HEAT IS
TOO HOT,BUT MY BEIN\' IN THE MASSAGE AREA,I DON\'T GET ALL THE HEAT

THAT IS IN THE BATHHOUSE BUT WHEN WE GO DOWN INTO THE BATHHOUSE,WHICH IS
JUS\' A SECTION FROM US,SOMETIME IT IS HOT,THE

ES\-\--(CONT)\-\--BATHHOUSE NEEDS SOME VENTILATION OR TO LET SOME OF
THAT HEAT OUT,SOMETIME\'S IT\'S NOT FROM THE RADIATORS BUT IT\'S
JUS\'TRHE HEAT FROM THE OUTSIDE THAT LINGERS IN THE BATHHOUSE,AND I FEEL
THAT

IF WE HAD SOME TYPE OF VENTILATION OR TO DRAW THIS HEAT OUT,IT WOULD BE
MUCH BETTER ON THE WORKERS AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THERE TAKIN\' A
BATH. YEARS AGO,WHEN WE HAD AH,MOSTLY THE JEWS THAT CAME DOWN FROM NEW
YORK,AN\' FROM PHILADELPHIA,FROM CHICAGO,PLACES LIKE THAT,THEY WANTED TO
SWEAT,THEY WANTED THE HOT HEAT IN THERE,BUT WE

HAVE A NEW CLIENT OF PEOPLE NOW,THAT ARE JUS\' THERE FOR RELAXATION,AND
THEY DON\'T WANT THAT HOT HEAT,THEY WANT THE AIR-

CONDITIONING IN THE BATHHOUSE WHICH WE KNOW WE WON\'T GET AIR-

CONDITIONING IN THE BATHHOUSE,BUT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN,LIKE NOW,

SPRING TIME,HUMIDITY IS REAL BAD IN THE BATHHOUSE,AN\' OH,NO,I\'M NOT

GONNA SAY THAT CAUSE IT MIGHT UPSET,BUT IT,IT,IT\'S,IT\'S JUS\' NOT

GOOD FOR ALL THE HUMIDITY IN THE BATHHOUSE THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

I\-\--COULD YOU NAME THE TWO,ACCORDING TO OUR RECORDS,WE HAD TWO BLACK
BATHHOUSES,DO YOU KNOW THE NAMES OF THOSE TWO BLACK BATHHOUSES WHERE THE
BLACKS WERE ALLOWED TO BATH ?

ES\-\--THE PITHIAN AN\' THE BAPTIST\.....

I\-\--WELL,WHEN WERE BLACKS ALLOWED TO BATH ALONG BATHHOUSE ROW ?

ES\-\--SOMETIME LIKE \'67 OR \'68,SOMEWHERE IN THERE.

I\-\--DID YOU EVER WATCH THE MERCURY RUB OR PERFORM THE MERCURY RUBS

YOURSELF,IN THE BATHHOUSES,HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS TREATMENT,THE

MERCURY RUB ?

ES\-\--I NEVER SEEN THE TREATMENT.

I\-\--ALRIGHT\.....

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--ABOUT ARTHRITIS,DO YOU STILL GET ANY PEOPLE WITH
ARTHRITIS THAT ARE COMING FOR THE TREATMENT ?

ES\-\--WE,WE ARE GETTING A FEW PEOPLE WITH ARTHRITIS,NOT OH,SEVERE CASES
LIKE WE USED TO HAVE. MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT COME NOW,OH,

HAVE OH,MILD ARTHRITIS,OR MOST OF OUR PEOPLE COME FOR TWO,THREE DAYS OF
RELAXATION,OR JUS\' TO SEE WHAT IT\'S ABOUT,YOU KNOW,JUS\' THE

IDEA THAT I WENT INTO THE THERMAL WATER,NOT,NOT THAT,OH THAT WE USED
TO\.....

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--DID THEY STAY FOR 18 OR 20 BATHS ?

ES\-\--THERE\'S STILL PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE THAT STAY FOR 18,12 OR 18
BATHS,

ANYMORE,WE STILL HAVE A FEW RETURNEES THAT COME EVERY YEAR AND WE STILL
HAVE SOME THAT COMES TWICE A YEAR,AND THEY MIGHT STAY FOR,MAYBE,TEN OR
TWELVE DAYS,BUT NOT ANYMORE,OH,NOT ANYMORE 12 OR 18 BATHS.

I\-\--MRS.STEWARD,DID YOU TAKE THE THERMAL BATHS YOURSELF ?

ES\-\--OH YES\...OH YES\...I\'M A GREAT BELIEVER IN THE THERMAL BATHS.

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--DO YOU CATCH THAT AT THE NOON HOUR OR DO YOU COME IN

YOUR\...\...\...\...?

ES\-\--WE CAN DO BATHS AT NOON HOURS AND THAT\'S OUR BREAK TIME,OR IN

ES\-\--(CONT)\-\--THE AFTERNOON WHEN WE FINISH.

I\-\--CAN YOU THINK OF ANY DRAMATIC CASES OF HEALING THAT YOU\'VE

WITNESSED YOURSELF ?

ES\-\--THERE\'VE BEEN SEVERAL,OH,CLASSES THAT WE WENT THROUGH,OH,I HAD A
LADY ONE TIME TO START WITH,OH,AT THE PITHIAN,AN\' SHE,SHE,SHE HAD

ARTHRITIS SO BAD,FURTHER MORE,SHE HAD RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS,AN\'SHE

COULDN\'T EVEN HELP HERSELF,OH,GET HERSELF ON THE BED OR GET OFF THE
BED,YOU KNOW,AT THE TIME,HER HUSBAND HAD TO ALWAYS COME AND PUT HER ON
MY MASSAGE TABLE,BUT SHE STAYED LIKE THREE WEEKS AN\' TOOK THE BATHS BUT
WHEN,BEFORE SHE LEFT,SHE HAD LEARNED HOW TO GET OFF THE BED AND WE
DIDN\'T HAVE TO CALL HIM TO COME AN\' GET ON,PUT HER ON

THE BED,AN\' WHEN SOMETHIN\' LIKE THAT HAPPEN,WE FEEL THAT WE HAVE
REALLY ACCOMPLISHED A LOT. I HAD A LADY SINCE I\'VE BEEN WORKING AT THE

ARLINGTON,OH,SHE HAD HAD A STROKE,AN\' WE WORKED WITH HER,AN\',AN\' SOME
CASES WE JUS\' TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO DO THINGS,AN\' I TOLD HER THAT

WHEN YOU COME IN IN THE MORNING,ALL I WANT YOU TO SAY IS \"HELLO\",AN\'

WHEN SHE FIRST STARTED,SHE COULDN\'T EVEN SAID THAT,YOU KNOW,SHE WOULD
ONLY BLINK HER EYES,OR WHAT HAVE YA,BUT WHEN THAT LADY LEFT

THERE,SHE HAD GREATLY IMPROVED,AN\' WE\'VE SEEN A WHOLE LOTS OF PEOPLE
THAT CAME IN ON A WALKING CANE AN\' THEY WOULD FORGET THEIR WALKING CANE
AND LEAVE,YOU KNOW,AN\',AN\' REALLY,IT MAKES US FEEL GOOD,AND FOR THEM
TO RETURN AGAIN,YOU KNOW,WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHIN\'.

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--YES,IT SHOWS IN YOUR EYES WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

THEY\'D THEN COME BACK ON KIND OF A YEARLY OR \[WORDS UNCLEAR\] ?

ES\-\--A YEARLY,AN\' SOMETIMES,SOMETIMES THEY\'D COME BACK LIKE TWICE A

YEAR,YOU KNOW,YES\...\...\.....

I\-\--WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED WORKING IN THE BATHIN\' INDUSTRY,DID YOU

WORK ON SUNDAYS ?

ES\-\--NO\....WE DIDN\'T,WE DIDN\'T,WE DIDN\'T WORK ON SUNDAYS. WE ONLY
WORKED TILL SATURDAY AFTERNOON.

I\-\--OKAY

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--DID YOU GET ONE DAY OR TWO DAYS A WEEK OFF ?

ES\-\--AT THE TIME,I WORKED MONDAY THROUGH SATURDAY NOON.

I\-\--DID MANY PEOPLE COME IN WITH DOCTORS PRESCRIPTIONS,THAT YOU KNOW
OF ?

ES\-\--DURING THE,DURING THE FIRST,OH,TEN OR TWELVE YEARS,PEOPLE ALWAYS

CAME IN WITH DOCTORS DIRECTIONS OR HOW HOT TO MAKE THE BATHS OR HOW TO
MASSAGE THEM OR HOW MUCH PRESSURE OR,TODAY WE DON\'T HAVE TOO MUCH OF
THAT.

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--THEN THE DOCTOR DOESN\'T TELL YOU IF YOU\'VE GOT A BAD
SHOULDER

SO YOU\'D WORK ON A SPECIFIC PART ?

ES\-\--RIGHT\...THEY MORE OR LESS TELL YOU WHERE THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE
PRESSURE OR WHERE THEY DON\'T WANT YOU,AN,OH,YOU SHOULD BE AWARE ENOUGH
TO KNOW THAT,IF YOU SEE SOMETHIN\' THAT DOESN\'T LOOK

RIGHT THAT I SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THAT.

I\-\--HAVE YOU EVER HAD AN ACCIDENT IN THE BATHHOUSE ?

ES\-\--NOT REALLY\.....NOT REALLY\...\....WE, WE\'VE HAD SOME COMPLAINTS

AN\' I GUESS THAT\'S TRUE IN EVERYTHING,THAT YOU HAVE SOME COMPLAINTS,

BUT AH,NEVER HAD NOTHIN\' REAL SERIOUS.

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--ANY PARTICULAR INCIDENTS THAT YOU\'D LIKE TO TELL US
ABOUT ?

ES\-\--WEL,OH,THE GREATEST INCIDENT,I GUESS,WOULD BE LIKE WHEN I HAVE MY

PEOPLE COME BACK EACH YEAR AN\' OH, THEY WILL LET SOMEBODY ELSE DO
THEM,UNTIL I GET BACK,I\'M WORKIN\' FOUR DAYS NOW,AN\' I HAD SOME OF MY

RETURNEES THAT I\'VE BEEN DOIN\' FOR 18-20 YEARS SINCE I\'VE BEEN AT THE

ARLINGTON AND IT\'S,IT\'S,IT\'S,IT\'S REALLY A GOOD FEELIN\' WHEN YOU GO

BACK AN\' YOU KNOW THAT THEY ARE THERE WAITIN\' YOU,AN\' YOU,IT\'S
LIKE,AH,IT\'S LIKE FAMILY COMIN\' HOME,OH,..WE DON\'T HAVE TOO MANY
INCIDENTS OR THINGS THAT HAPPEN NOW THAT HAPPEN AT THE BATHHOUSE,OH,LIKE
BIRTHDAY TIMES,OR I HAD,MY ANNIVERSARY ALWAYS COME THE 16TH. OF
MARCH,AN\' THAT\'S WHEN I WENT TO WORK AT THE ARLIBGTON,SO MOST THE TIME
MY RETURNEES WOULD ALWAYS REMEMBER ME BY SENDING ME FLOWERS INTO THE
MASSAGE,SO THAT\'S PRETTY EXCITING.

I\-\--WHEN YOU STARTED AT THE ARLINGTON,ARE ALL THE BATH ATTENDANTS,

AN\' THE MASSEUR AN\' MASSEUSE,ARE THEY ALL BLACK,OR ARE THEY BLACK

AND WHITE ?

ES\-\--OH,WE HAVE A JELL MIXTURE OF BATH ATTENDANTS AND MASSEUSE. I\'M

THE ONLY MASSEUSE THAT\'S STILL THERE WHEN I WENT THERE TWENTY-THREE

YEARS AGO. AND WE DON\'T HAVE A BATH ATTENDANT THAT WAS THERE WHEN I
WENT THERE. ALL OUR GIRLS ARE NEW GIRLS.

I\-\--DID,DID,DID THE OLD,DID THEY RETIRE ?

ES\-\--THEY RETIRED,SOME OF \'EM GOT SICK AN\' HAD TO LEAVE,OH,BUT MOST

OF \'EM STAYED THERE UNTIL WAY PAST RETIREMENT.

I\-\--HOW MANY MANAGERS HAVE YOU WORKED UNDER AT,AT THE

ARLINGTON ?

ES\-\--ONLY TWO\...\...

I\-\--CAN YOU NAME THOSE TWO ?

ES\-\--CATHERINE LAMB AN\' BILL BLACKMAN.

I\-\--OKAY\.....

ES\-\--UH-HUH\...\...\...\...

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--BUT THE WORK IS HARD AN\'\...\...\...\...

ES\-\--THE WORK IS HARD AN\' IT\'S HOT,AN\' THE YOUNG PEOPLE IS NOT
GOIN\'

TO WORK THERE,THE PAY IS LITTLE\...\...\.....

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--THE PAY TODAY PUT YOU JEALOUS ?

ES\-\--THE PAY TODAY,I MADE \$5.60 A MASSAGE,AN\' WE\'RE JUS\' NOT GONNA
BE ABLE TO KEEP YOUNG PEOPLE THERE,MAKIN\' THAT SMALL AMOUNT OF
MONEY,OH,IF YOU,IF YOU DO A GREAT TURNOVER,IT\'S GOOD. ONLY REASON I WAS
ABLE TO STAY THERE IS BECAUSE I HAD A HUSBAND,BUT WITH OUR YOUNG PEOPLE
TODAY,OR ONE PARENT,THEY CAN\'T MAKE IT AT THAT\....

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--AN\' THEN YOU\'RE THERE FROM 6,6-1/2 DAYS A WEEK\.....?

ES\-\--5-1/2 DAY A WEEK AN\' FROM 7 TO 5:30-6:00 SOMETIMES\...\....

I\-\--\[BB\]\-\--AN\' YOU DON\'T MISS MANY DAYS ?

ES\-\--NO,I DON\'T,I DON\'T MISS WORK,I GO TO WORK,OH,I HAVE,SOMETHING

REAL SERIOUS HAVE TO GO ON FOR ME TO MISS WORK,OH,I,I LOVE WHAT I\'M
DOIN\',OH,I JUS\' DON\'T STAY HOME,AN\' MAKE EXCUSES THAT I\'M SICK,IF
I\'M

HOME SICK,I\'M SICK,OR MAYBE I HAVE TO GO SEE \'BOUT FAMILY,BUT OTHER
THAN THAT,I\'M AT WORK,AN\' NO,I WOULDN\'T WANT MY KIDS WORKIN\' THERE

IN A,YOU KNOW,IN THAT BUSINESS. WE DON\'T HAVE NO TYPE OF BENEFITS AN\'

WHATEVER TYPE OF BENEFITS WE GET IS SO EXPENSIVE,OUR YOUNG PEOPLE CANNOT
AFFORD IT,SO THEREFORE THEY HAVE TO LOOK OTHER PLACES TO GET

BENEFITS,AN\' I THINK THAT AH,THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD DO
SOMETHIN\' ABOUT THAT OR, I\'VE BEEN WORKING THERE THIRTY-THREE YEARS,

AN\' WHEN I LEAVE,I\'LL JUST LEAVE,YOU KNOW,THERE\'S NO RETIREMENT OR
NOTHIN\',AN\' THIS IS WHAT HURTIN\', MOST OF ALL,THE BATHIN\'
INDUSTRY,IS BECAUSE WE HAVE SUCH A TURNOVER,AN\' IT\'S BECAUSE WE DO NOT
HAVE

RETIREMENT BENEFITS OR INSURANCE BENEFITS\...\....

END OF INTERVIEW\...\...\...\...\...\...\...\...\....