Na Hoapili o Kaloko Honokohau

Advisory Commission

[Minutes of the Meeting]{.underline}

November 18, 2005

Kaloko-Honokohau National Historical Park Headquarters

Kailua-Kona, Hawaii

Members present: Chair; Ruby Keanaaina McDonald, Chad Baybayan, Nainoa
Perry, Mikahala Roy, Dale Fergerstrom, Herb Kane, Ulalia Ka'ai Berman,
Cynthia Nazara, and Joseph Nahale.

Members absent: Kathleen Ahina

National Park Service: Superintendent; Geraldine Bell, Chief of Resource
Management; Richard Boston, Pacific Area Director; Frank Hays, and
Administrative Officer; Linda Underwood.

[Call to Order]{.underline}

Chairperson Ruby Keanaaina McDonald called the meeting to order at 9:15
a.m.

Opening *pule* by Ulalia Ka'ai Berman.

Roll call was taken.

[Opening Remarks and Announcements]{.underline}

Apologies presented by Nahale for lack of attendance at previous
advisory meetings. Many years ago during his sophomore year in high
school, A\`ala Roy was looking for young, eager Hawaiians to help gather
information relating to Kaloko-Honokohau. It was challenging because it
related to his culture, and who his family and people were. Being raised
on a coffee farm, his Hawaiian culture was limited to the thoughts and
beliefs the *kupuna* taught him. Working with A\`ala and doing this
research, he learned in depth of the Hawaiian culture including the
language.

Superintendent Bell introduced Richard Boston, archeologist who replaced
Stanley Bond. Richard has been on board for two months.

Frank Hays introduced himself as the Pacific Area Director who replaced
Bryan Harry.

Chairman McDonald recommended that a letter of congratulations be sent
to former commission member Fred Cachola for being the recipient of the
Order of Ke Alii Pauahi award. Motioned introduced by Commissioner
Nazara for the board to submit a letter of congratulations to Fred
Cachola. Motioned unanimously carried.

Superintendent Bell announced that yesterday and today the park is
celebrating the annual educational festival for 4^th^ graders on the
islands. She was hoping that on today's agenda we could have lunch and
join the children so that the commissioners could be exposed to the type
of activities the children experience. Last night was the celebration of
the *makahiki*. Bell thanked Mikahala Roy for the ceremony and reminded
us that the original members of the Kaloko-Honokohau advisory commission
should be remembered. Mikahala also thanked the staff of
Kaloko-Honokohau NHP for their efforts each year with *Na Kokua*.

[Minutes:]{.underline}

Correction on August 12 minutes, page 2, third bullet, under Planning,\
Design and Landscaping Committee, correct wording for *lauhala* to
*"puhala"*. *Lauhala* is the leaf of the tree, *puhala* is the tree.

Bottom of page 3, last sentence should read "The Kaloko-Honokohau
National Park Native Hawaiian Cultural Center **participant will abide
by this policy** and these rules to clarify, enhance, promote, educate,
enlighten, and preserve Native Hawaiian **culture,** **religion**, and
traditions while protecting cultural practices".

Motion to accept the minutes from August 12, 2005 with amendments
introduced by Commissioner Baybayan; seconded by Commissioner Nazara.
Motion unanimously carried.

[No Statements from the Public:]{.underline}

[Update on 18-acres]{.underline}

Bell said back in September 2004 the commission wrote a letter to Mayor
Kim asking for his support and assistance in regards to the 18-acres at
Kohanaiki which is privately owned and which is included in the
authorized boundary of the park. The 18-acres were included in the park
boundary because of the cultural and natural resources on the property.
The developers of *Kohanaiki* donated 109-acres of their property
(including

the 18-acres) to the County of Hawaii. In the letter, the commission
asked whether or not the property could be turned over to the National
Park Service. We've found out that at least 3 of the 18-acres will be
used for a golf course, so we're no longer talking about the entire
18-acres. The commission would appreciate the County working with the
Park Service because the developers said he would donate the property to
the County of Hawaii and not the Park Service. Since then there has been
no follow up from the Mayor.

McDonald added that initially when the letter was written, Mayor Kim,
former archeologist Stanley Bond, and McDonald did a site visit to the
park, and the *Kohanaiki* area. She felt the Mayor was impressed and is
disappointed that he has not responded.

When the park was legislated, Congress included that parcel as well as
another parcel south of park which is under State of Hawaii ownership.
The developers felt they wanted to donate the property to the County
rather than to the Park Service because of the Mayor's interest in
having a park from NELHA to the old airport. The 18-acres are on the
coast area. That area of *Kohanaiki* is a recreational area and the
National Park Service is in the business of protecting natural and
cultural resources. Bell quoted from Barbano who was the former Park
Planner for the National Park Service of Honolulu which read "there are
fiscal advantages to the County if they do not accept the donation of
the land within the authorized boundary of the park. If instead, the
landowner donates the land to the National Park Service and takes that
land off its property tax rolls, the County of Hawaii would receive in
perpetuity payments in lieu of taxes from the Federal government". So in
other words the County of Hawaii would receive funding from the Federal
government. A good example is the revenue Hawaii County is receiving
from the Federal government in lieu of the property tax paid by Damon
Estate for the Kahuku ranch property. Similarly from a tax and public
relations standpoint it may make good sense for the landowner to donate
the land to the Park Service rather than donating it to the County of
Hawaii. Donating land that valuable would provide the landowner with a
sizeable tax write off and would allow them to be proceed in a more
positive way by the local community.

Hays said that with the state of the Federal budget these days, they
basically slashed the land acquisition budget for the National Park
Service so there's not going to be money if it was allowed, and he
thinks it would be better to proceed with the donation approach.

Bell will submit a copy of what was quoted from Barbano to Kane, the
Mayor's representative. Hays will submit figures from the Kahuku ranch
acquisition. Kane will follow up with Mayor Kim regarding the 18-acre
parcel.

Motion to select Kane as the representative from the advisory commission
to follow up with Mayor Kim regarding the letter on the 18-acres was
introduced by Commissioner Berman, seconded by Commissioner Nazara.
Motioned unanimously carried.

[Election of a New Chairperson]{.underline}

Bell reported there is still one opening for a commission member to
replace Paige Barber. Dennis Keawe was one recommendation she received.
Bell asked Roy if she was able to follow up with Fred Cachola to ask if
he was interested in being a member because he was with the initial
commission. Roy said he is a hard person to get hold of and will keep
trying.

[Save America's Treasure Grant]{.underline}

Superintendent Bell again asked the Commission to help support the
Kaloko fishpond wall project; a recipient of the Save America's Treasure
Grant for \$200,000. If you know of any groups or organization looking
for any types of community work that they would like to do, this is
something the commission could help with. Roy stated that the non profit
organization she's affiliated with might want to assist; she will check
with K*ulana*.

Perry wanted clarification regarding a newspaper article he saw
advertising for a maintenance worker for the wall. Bell replied that it
was true. The wall is supported by different fund sources; the largest
source that the park was able to tap into is the National Park Service
fee demonstration program. Parks which do not charge fee entrance; there
is an incentive program in which they compete for project funding.
Twenty percent of what's collected goes into a pot for parks like
Kaloko-Honokohau NHP. The park has a cooperate agreement with Research
Cooperation of University of Hawaii to support projects like this.

[Preliminary Planning for the Live-In Cultural/Education
Center]{.underline}

[Location]{.underline}

Bell requested affirmation from the commission regarding drawings
presented by Perry at the last meeting in August so we can move forward.

Roy wanted clarification from Superintendent Bell regarding the location
of the center. Fergerstrom said that the location was in the open area
that was bulldozed mauka of Huehue trail. Chairman McDonald said a
motion was passed for the location at

Huehue trail. For the record Commissioner Roy is opposed to the
location. It's disturbing when our people cannot inhabit our own
traditional land with a chance to teach.

Bell said the area behind Kaloko Pond has been mentioned as another
option for the center and reported that she recently visited the area.
Because of the cultural sites in the area, she would not suggest or even
want to say we should build something there. The terrain is uneven, and
the archeology there is too intense.

Perry added his *mana'o* and is opposed to the site along Huehue trail.
While spending time at the site, he looked at the eyesore of the
industrial area and the area to launch the canoe is almost impossible.
We cannot let this drag on, so my alternative is to move on and make the
best of this area.

Bell replied there are things we can do, and the drawings Perry
presented at the last meeting are good ones. My comment to the chair is
to affirm that.

Fergerstrom agreed that the semantics Perry produced is excellent and
reminded the members that they need to review them again.

Roy said the third zone as depicted in the Spirit of Kaloko Honokohau
was the heart of a dream. Aiopio is already being used for cultural
activities, and the area is open to the sea. It was suggested by Fred
Cachola as a stage area. There is still an opportunity to plan and felt
that she should be representing the commissioners from the past. It's
not an afterthought; this was the heart of what they saw in their dream.

Fergerstrom said the center at Huehue is not the end; he would like to
think of it as the beginning. These kinds of places will be expanded, so
that it grows. Maybe Huehue is one boundary, and the other is Aiopio and
pretty soon it's filled in between and expanded over to the wall, so
that the whole area becomes a Hawaiian place.

Roy agreed with Fergerstrom and asked Superintendent Bell how realistic
is that plan. Bell explained that when the park was established the
authorizing legislation used the word "center", which meant the entire
park. This is our mission, and that's where we're moving towards. One of
the goals of the commission was to start with this plan and do it one
step at a time. And with that thought, Berman added that it took 30
years to get where we are today, and suggested the commission should
submit a plan for the next phase so that it's on the books. I remember
when the first phase started and I was asked to come and sit with them.
It was awesome to hear things that I didn't know anything about. Bell
said we need to affirm this, it's affirmed in the Spirit of Kaloko

Honokohau, our GMP, and documentation of previous meetings. We need to
keep affirming this so that the managers after me or 50 years from now
will carry that torch.

Kane explained that from the very beginning, they talked about an area
to be use by Hawaiians, separated from the general visitors. That was
only the first thought that one has is that they have to be in two
separate locations. But it doesn't have to be that way, it depends
entirely on planning. It could all be part of what is considered as one
complex. He explained that he worked in planning a cultural center in
Fiji; what kept the center going was the marketplace where visitors are
stepping back in time. From the marketplace, the visitors would enter a
reconstruction of an ancient building. We didn't put the cultural
demonstrators in cages like a living zoo; instead we put the visitors in
the cage. So the visitors were tightly controlled all the time and the
cultural demonstrators had free rein of the place. They felt like they
owned the place. That is a very important distinction. The way we did it
because we had to have an area of flat land, a lot rain or waterfall in
the back, hale around the area, and we dug a pathway through which we
could take people on canoe rides, Fijian style. This center worked for
ten years until the political crew in Fiji put a complete damper on
tourism. What we have here is a way in which a culture is perpetuated,
particularly the materials in teaching the younger generations. These
things can be planned very carefully so that they are right next to each
other so that both objectives can be accomplished for visitors and a
private place for Hawaiians. This could be done with good planners that
have to concentrate on the objectives. Another way in which it could be
done is with using landscaping, the joint using of fencing. Let's look
back at some of the old drawings made by the early Europeans visitors in
Hawaii and you'll notice the use of fencing for privacy to keep
commoners out of kapu areas. These clusters of dwellings, each one
having its own place but clustered all together, and by using this kind
of fencing that was made of natural poles which is usually set within a
rock wall foundations. It's a challenge and I think it can be done to
accommodate both.

Fergerstrom stated that the concept would ensure that the cultural
activities would spread throughout the park rather than be confined to
the walls; the *kauhale* is not the end but the beginning.

The only way that we're going to be able to make this expectation is to
set a tone and that will be done by the people who utilize the center.
The experience is similar with Kamehameha Schools lands, where people
believe that they have a right to go there. In the American sense, you
have a "right", but from a Hawaiian sense, I believe the word that is
used to describe "right" is called *pono* and the other is *kuleana.* In
those definitions, you have a duty element in the word *pono*; which is
totally different from the American sense. In *kuleana*, you have
responsibilities and liabilities. So the whole

dimension is different in the Hawaiian concept of what is right and what
a claim is. We need to have the people who were the center, set that
tone.

Roy responded by saying that she needed answers from the Federal side.
The claim is that all National Parks generally reflect the way of
operations under the United States. I say there are many things coming
to the table today; and the *kuleana* and *pono* operation is good, and
should be good for everybody, no matter what government it is. But let's
be realistic, tourism is killing us, there is no place that a Hawaiian
can go on our lands today.

Kane stated that we are all aware of that, but to dwell on it is not
productive. We have to get into the real world, and one of the strengths
the Hawaiians have is that they have been good hosts to people from the
outside who demonstrated by their actions that they are people of good
will. Hawaiians have always been accepted by visitors. The strength is
to enforce a good guest relationship, if not, the native people are
unhappy because they're being forced into a servile situation. My point
is that a good host serves without the servile.

Berman asked who is going to teach the Hawaiians how to be Hawaiians.
There are many multi cultures here, and many of our own people don't
know what it is to be Hawaiian. In moving forward, we need those who are
able to share it. It is not going to be easy, we have to come together
as a community and our community is spreading thinner and thinner. Who
are we going to have as our resources to do this so that it continues?

Baybayan felt that we needed to move on the location. This is serving
only those who want to keep the Hawaiian culture alive, tourism will
come and go but they are not our audience. Frankly, the site is not the
best location but it's the most appropriate. He felt uncomfortable about
building on the north side of the park because of the culture and
archeological sites. He is not sure if this generation is aware of the
treasures at the park. For example, what they've found next door at
*Kohanaiki,* which tells you what possibly could exist here. So the most
appropriate place for the center is where we would have the least amount
of artifacts. Hawaiians have incredible skills with unhospitable lands
and making them flourish. Who is going to teach Hawaiians to be
Hawaiians - it's the Hawaiians. It's not exactly the way our *kupuna*
did it but our *kupuna* was involved in many things. They were great
hosts who will always be great hosts to all people who come here. The
kind of visitors we've had, who came here and supported our needs, and
played the roles but knew the *kuleana* was for the Hawaiians. They knew
their place. This is a center for Hawaiians and is going to be fashioned
by Hawaiians.

Perry wanted clarification that the center would provide a place for all
Hawaiian people to experience or relive how it was back then without the
public looking at them. If so, he suggested the commission move forward
and asked what the first steps were.

Kane said the center will be a place to serve both host and guest in
which the Hawaiians have the rights as the owners. It's their place, for
Hawaiians only. For everyone else coming in from the public, they must
be met with some kind of first impression that will make them feel like
a guest.

Speaking from a planning experience, Kane said the first step is to
construct a schematic in which we could see how the natives and public
interact, what kinds of activities, the functional aspect of the center.
Once you have the schematic, then you see the prime site of the park
might be found to accommodate both sides. Kane suggested that he would
very much like to work with Gary Barbano in getting a schematic.

Hayes said that before a schematic is done, we need to identify issues
and a scoping session. Kane said all issues should be identified -- the
commission, park and NPS staff and eventually the public should get
involved.

Roy asked Bell if this will alter the General Management Plan (GMP) with
the three zone areas. Bell replied that the GMP is exactly what it is, a
plan. We follow the GMP in decision making in the park and try not to
deviate from it. Fergerstrom ask if the plan has lines drawn on the
ground. Bell replied that it did not.

Motioned introduced by Commissioner Fergerstrom to accept the conceptual
plan or sketches put together by Perry with the understanding that this
is the beginning of the facility phase and that it should not be
restricted to only this area and that other areas within the park in the
future may be identified for other activities, Seconded by Commissioner
Nazara. Motion unanimously carried.

[Proposed Cultural Center Guidelines]{.underline}

The updated guidelines that were discussed at the August meeting were
distributed for review. The following changes should be made:

Under General Policy, the first bullet which says "Spirit of Kaloko",
this should be referenced and should read "Familiarize oneself with the
Honokohau Study Advisory Commission publication dated May 18, 1974
**Spirit of Kaloko-Honokohau**". The Spirit of Kaloko-Honokohau should
be underlined, italic, or in bold.

Chairman McDonald noted that all wording which reads "Native Hawaiian"
will be changed to "*na 'oiwi o Hawaii*."

Violation of Rules will be reworded by the National Park Service.

Guidelines will be revised by Bell and sent to Nicole Walthall who
worked for the Solicitors Office for comments.

[Other Issues]{.underline}

Baybayan asked if there will be a plaque of some kind to honor the
previous commissioners. Bell replied that there is a letter signed by
all the original commissioners which is in the same letter as in the
Spirit Report located at the contact station. This letter will be used
for now until we decide what we're going to do. Nahale suggested that we
need to also recognize those who helped with the oral history from the
beginning. He has a lot of the originals at home before it was
transcribed.

Baybayan asked if we could take some kind of tour of the area of the
pond. Bell replied that at our next meeting, we could meet at Kaloko for
the tour and then meet and talk story.

Schedule of events for the cultural festival was distributed by Bell.

Roy asked for the names or lay out of the trails at the park. Boston
will get those mailed out to the commissioners.

Next meeting is on February 10^th^ at Kaloko pond at 9:00 a.m.

Closing *pule* by Ulalia Ka\`ai Berman. Without further discussion the
meeting adjourned at 12:00 p.m.

Respectfully submitted,

Linda Underwood

Administrative Officer, National Park Service

Approved for distribution:
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Chairperson