**Everything You Wanted to Know about Personnel \....**

A Telecast Originating from the BLM National Training Center

April 29, 1999

This transcript is from the closed-captioning file produced during the
telecast.

It may contain errors and omissions in transcription.

Announcer: the Bureau of Land Management Satellite Network Presents Live
from the BLM National Training Center in Phoenix, Arizona, \"Everything
You Always Wanted to Know about Personnel and Now You Can Ask.\" An
Interactive Electronic Town Hall for BLM Employees and Managers. And
Now, the Host of Your Program, Tony Garrett.

T. Garrett: Good Morning. Welcome to Our Program and to a New Television
Format We\'re Using for the First Time Here at The National Training
Center. Our Electronic Town Hall Meeting Will Give Employees in Our
Studio Audience and All of You In the Field Sites Around the Country an
Opportunity to Be a Part of this Discussion and to Make Sure That We
Cover the Issues and Concerns That Are Most Important to You. We
Encourage All of You to Join In and Be a Part of this Dialogue. So Here
Are the Ground Rules. Any Time During Today\'s Show If You Have a
Question or a Comment For Us, Just Give Us a Call or Send Us a Fax, and
We\'ll Get to Your Questions as Quickly as We Can. We\'re Very Fortunate
to Have With Us Today Some of BLM\'s Top Personnel Specialists. They\'ll
Be Helping Us Explore Some Issues Significant to All Employees, but Most
Importantly, They\'re Here to Answer Your Questions. With Us from the
BLM Human Resources Management Center in Denver Is Melissa Dukes. Thanks
for Joining Us.

M. Dukes: Thanks for Having Me, Tony. I Have to Tell You Staffing Is My
Favorite Area of Personnel And I\'m So Excited to Be Part of This
Broadcast.

T. Garrett: from Cheyenne, Wyoming, Deputy State Director For Resource
Policy and Management, Don Simpson.

D. Simpson: Thank You, Tony. I Appreciate the Opportunity to Be Here. I
Think Personnel Is a Very Intriguing Area, a Lot of Interest with All
the Employees And I Look Forward to Participating in the Forum.

T. Garrett: from Billings, Montana, Is Diane Friez, Personnel Officer
with the Montana State Office. Welcome, Diane.

D. Friez: Thanks, Tony. Staffing Is One of the First Areas I Worked in
Personnel and I\'m Anxious to Hear Questions From the Audience and from
Around the Bureau Today.

T. Garrett: Standing by in The Studio Audience Is NTC Director Marilyn
Johnson. Marilyn Has Extensive Background In Human Resources and She
Will Be Visiting with Our Audience Today During Our Question and Answer
Segment. Good Morning, Marilyn.

M. Johnson: Good Morning, BLM, and Welcome to the National Training
Center. We\'re Looking Forward to a Lively Exchange of Ideas, Questions
and Information.

T. Garrett: and Joining Us Live on a Video Call from BLM\'s Headquarters
Office in Washington, D.c., We\'re Especially Please to Have with Us BLM
Assistant Director for Human Resources, Warren Johnson. Good Morning,
Warren.

W. Johnson: Good Morning. How Are You? These Are Exciting Times in
Personnel Management and I\'m Pleased to Be a Part of This.

T. Garrett: We\'re Happy to Have You Here. We Would like You to Kick off
The Program by Talking about the Purpose of this Telecast and What We
Hope to Accomplish this Morning and How Our Broadcast Fits into the
Larger Human Resources Program in the Bureau Of Land Management. Warren?

W. Johnson: Thanks, Tony. Good Morning. To All of You out in Phoenix and
To All of Our Viewers Around the Country. This Is an Exciting Concept. I
Think It\'s Going to Be Very Helpful to BLM Employees and I\'m Pleased
to Be a Part of It. You Have Heard about the Initiative We Launched in
BLM Last Year Called \"Creating a Healthy Organization.\" It\'s Designed
to Ensure That the BLM Is a Place Where Employees Feel Valued, Respected
and Supported. And a Place Where We Have Meaningful, Productive Jobs and
Opportunities to Advance Our Careers. One Contribution We in Human
Resources Want to Make to That Goal Is to Help BLM Employees Become More
Familiar with Some Of the Policies, Practices in The Bureau That Affect
Your Careers. We Have Three Goals for this Broadcast ‑‑ One, to Provide
Employees with a Better Understanding of the Criteria Used in Making
Personnel Decisions. Two, to Strengthen Employee Confidence in the
Integrity of The Merit System and Organizational Personnel Policies and
Practices. Three, to Equip Employees with Information and Skills Needed
to Plan and Promote Their Careers. That\'s What We Hope to Accomplish
with Today\'s Broadcast. Again, I Am Pleased I Could Be a Part of this
and I Will Be Watching the Program with Other BLMers Here in Washington.
We Are Anxious to Hear from You, The Panelists, the Audience, and
Viewers Who Will Be a Part of This Important Dialogue. So with That,
I\'ll Turn it Back To You, Tony in Phoenix, and Thank You.

T. Garrett: Thank You, Warren. We Appreciate Your Taking the Time to
Visit with Us Today Supporting the Program And, of Course, Supporting
the Healthy Organization Initiative over the Months and Years. If We Are
Successful in Meeting Those Objectives That Warren Described, We Hope to
Identify Other Needs and Interests among BLM Employees and Address Those
In Future Programs of this Kind. Now as a Preamble to Our Discussion
We\'ll Turn to Melissa For a Brief Overview of the Merit System and a
Discussion of Some of the Universal Principles That Apply to Most of Us
in Government Service. Melissa?

M. Dukes: Thank You, Tony. The Merit System Principles Are The
Principles That Guide How We Do Federal Personnel Management. They\'re
Explicit in the Laws, Rules, Regulations and Executive Orders, and
Describe How We Conduct the Federal Personnel Management Program. Some
of These Include the Requirement to Not Discriminate Against Employees
and Applicants. Another One Is a Requirement to Treat Employees Fairly
and Equitably. In All, There Are Actually Nine Merit System Principles
That Are Defined in Regulation. History of Merit System, Though,
Actually Isn\'t That Old. Until the 1880s, in Reality We Had a Spoils
System. The Spoils System Came out of The Roman Empire, the Chinese Had
It. Federal Jobs Were Bought and Sold Based on Who Got Elected to Be
President. He Brought in His Political Backers, His Cronies, If You
Will, Sometimes Positions Were Filled by Party Loyal and the Party
Faithful. But That Created a Lot of Problems, Including Incompetence,
Corruption and Graft. So in 1880, Senator George Hamilton of Ohio,
Frustrated With What He Was Seeing Go on in The Federal Government,
Proposed What Is Known as the Pendleton Act. Unfortunately it Languished
in Congress until the Unfortunate Assassination in 1881 of President
Garfield. That Led Impetus to the Passage Of the Pendleton Act in 1883
and Actually Formalized the Concept Of the Merit System into the
Selection Process That Candidates Had to Be Selected For Most Jobs Based
on Open and Fair Competition and Based on Merit. While Many Laws Passed
‑‑ Were Passed after That Addressed The Federal System, Merit Really
Didn\'t Come to the Forefront Again until the 1978 Civil Service Reform
Act. The Act Formalized the Nine Principles We Have Today. The Other
Thing the Act Did Was To Actually Formalize 11 Concepts Called
Prohibited Personnel Practices and These Are Things That Personnelists,
Managers and Those Involved in Federal Personnel Decisions Are
Prohibited from Doing, Discrimination, You Are Prohibited from
Discriminating Against Employees or Applicants For All of the
Traditional Eeo Reasons, and in Addition to That You Are Prohibited from
Discrimination Based on Marital Status or Political Affiliation. Another
One I Think Most People Are Aware of Is We\'re Prohibited Against
Engaging in Nepotism, The Encouragement, Support or Selection for
Employment of Relatives. So There Are Actually 11 Prohibited Personnel
Practices. They Are Also Outlined in Federal Law. Between the Merit
Principles and Those Practices, They Really Define How We Go about
Running Our Personnel Business, Including but Not Limited to Staffing.

T. Garrett: Thanks, Melissa. Where Can People Find More Information
about the Merit Principles and Prohibited Practices If They\'re
Interested In Looking for Those?

M. Dukes: One Thing We Have Decided to Do Is to ‑‑ They\'re Found
Actually in Federal Law. But Not Always Easy to Read and Not Readily
Codified. So What We\'ve Decided to Do, Based on Our Plans for this
Broadcast, Is Actually to Put Them on the Nhrmc Intranet Page And That
Website Will Come up Later in the Program.

T. Garrett: Thank You. In Addition to Our Audience Here In Phoenix, We
Have Montana State Director Larry Hamilton Standing by with a Group of
BLMers at the Montana State Office in Billings. Good Morning, Larry, and
Welcome To All of You in Montana.

L. Hamilton: Good Morning, Tony. How Are You Today?

T. Garrett: We\'re Fine. Another Day in Paradise. Larry, of Course ‑‑

L. Hamilton: Well, We\'re Kind Of Experiencing Some Wet Weather Here in
Montana. But That\'s Not Going to Slow Us Down, Tony. We\'ve Got a Lot
of Questions for You this Morning, and We Really Appreciate the
Opportunity to Be Able to Participate.

T. Garrett: Ok. This Is All under the Umbrella Of a Healthy
Organization.

L. Hamilton: Very Good, Tony.

T. Garrett: Larry, of Course, Has Been with the BLM since the Garfield
Administration That Melissa Talked About, and So We Want to Draw on His
Wealth of Experience and Also Hear from The People There in Montana and
We\'ll Be Looking for Your Questions and Comments, Larry, And Look for
You to Offer Some Of Your Insight as a Long‑time Bureau of Land
Management Manager.

L. Hamilton: We\'re Ready, Tony.

T. Garrett: We\'ll Be Back in Touch with You in Montana. Of Course, We
Want to Hear from Our Viewers at All of Our Downlink Sites Around the
Country and We Encourage to You Get in Touch with Us by Telephone or
Fax. We\'ll Get to Your Questions as Quickly as We Can. Obviously We
Cannot Address Specific Personal Issues on a Case‑by‑case Basis. Your
Personnel Officer Can Help You with Those Matters. We Do Want to Deal
with These Issues in a General Way That Will Benefit All of Our Viewers.
And Now the First Topic of Our Discussion, Which We\'re Calling \"Why
Managers Do What They Do.\" To Explore That Subject, Let\'s Turn to Don
Simpson. Don?

D. Simpson: Good Morning, Tony, How Are You Doing? One of the Things I
Think I Want To Start out with Before I Discuss a Few of the Items Is I
Think I Want to Make a Statement On Behalf of Most Managers That This Is
Probably One of the Most Important Areas That a Manager Faces, a
Personnel Decision Is a Paramount Decision in Their Career, and Probably
One of the Most Important Aspects of Their Job as a Supervisor or
Manager. I Know Sometimes from an Employee\'s Point of View They Get a
Feeling That It\'s a Bit Like a Chessboard, There\'s a Lot Of Rules That
Need to Be Followed, There\'s Processes That Happen, There\'s
Interaction Between People. So Maybe We Could Talk about a Few of Those
at Least from My Perception and a Manager\'s Perspective. One of the
Things I Think We Need to Bear in Mind Is the Ultimate Goal of a Manager
Really Is to Make Sure That We Can Find a Position That the BLM Needs,
That it Fits the Organization Well, It\'s Timely, It Looks into the
Future, and Secondly, That We Get an Individual That Fits That Position
and Will Have a Good Career with the BLM in That New Position. The
Interesting Thing, If You Look Back on BLM, If We Look at Staffing at
this Point, it Appears That it May Be Kind of a Stationary Point in
Time, It\'s Something That\'s Just Regular And Recurring, but Staffing
Has Been an Evolutionary Item. If You Go Back 30 Years Ago and Look at
the Staffs That the Bureau of Land Management Had, We Had More Range,
Forestry, Minerals, Land Law Examiner. We Were in Our Grazing, Our
General Land Office Business Era. As We Went into the \'70s, We Had A
Lot of Bills That Were Passed In Congress. Congress Was Telling Us,
Advising Us Through this Legislation That We Need to Do Start Looking at
Things Such as Nepa, Which Required an Analysis Of Our Actions, Flpma
Was Passed And Required Land Use Planning, A Lot of ‑‑ a Variety of
Other Legislation Was Passed That Dealt with Our Business and How We
Relate to the Public Lands. At That Point, We Had to Then Convert over
and Look at Our Staffing. Were We Prepared to Handle That Type of a
Workload? I Think Most Managers at That Time in the Late \'70s Decided
That We Needed More Ologists. We Needed Wildlife Biologists We Didn\'t
Have on Staff. We Might Have Needed Economists, Cultural Specialists. So
We Went Through an Era Where We Add to Do Our Stable as We Go Into the
\'80s and \'90s, I Think A Lot of Us Who Live in the West Have Seen
Tremendous Growth in The Western Communities. What Used to Be Sleepy
Towns Are Suddenly Booming Communities Pushing up Against the Public
Lands. Our Issues Now Revolve Around Open Space, Water Quality, Air
Quality, Recreation. So Now We\'re Faced with Looking At Yet Another Set
of Individuals to Help out and Attack What it Is That We\'re Looking at
as the Public Issues On the Public Lands. So Now We\'re Looking at More
Water Quality Specialists. We May Be Looking at Air Specialists. So I
Think It\'s an Ever‑evolving Situation That a Manager Has to Take a Look
at at That Point in Time and Look Forward Before They Select a Position
to See If That\'s What the Bureau Needs for The next Five to Ten Years.
Another Issue That Needs to Be Considered Is Whether You Go With a
Permanent Employee or Do You Go with a Temporary Employee? Obviously
That Affects Quite a Bit of the Process. It Affects Who You Work With.
As You Go with a Permanent Employee, You Need a Larger Area Of
Advertisement. You Probably Need a Longer Period of Time So You Can
Expose Your Position to as Many Folks As You Can. If You Need a
Temporary Position, You Might Be Able to Limit Your Scope. You Might Be
Able to Hire That Person Right There from Your Office or Local Community
or Commuting Area. The Full Performance or the Entry Level of the
Position Is Also Very Important to Think Through. A Lot of the Offices
at the Bureau of Land Management Staffs At this Time Are in Very Small
Communities. They\'re Not Always Large Staffs. If the Individual Is a
Unique or A One‑of‑a‑kind Type Employee, That May Not Be the Best Place
To Put an Entry‑level Employee. That May Be Where a Manager Would
Consider a Full Performance Level Person. The Entry Level Is Obviously a
Very Serious Concern and Probably When in Doubt, Try and Go with the
Entry Level to Bring On New Employees into the Bureau. Those Are
Obviously More Appropriate to Be Used in a ‑‑ An Office That Has a
Larger Cadre of Folks, Technically, Anyway, That Can Help That Person
Get on Board and Learn as They Spend Their First Few Years With BLM. A
Position Analysis Is Another Thing Appear Manager, I Think, Needs to
Spend a Considerable Amount of Time At. They Work with the Personnel
Specialist. That\'s When You Need to Look at The Position Description.
Is it Still Ok? Do We Want to Hire the Old Position? Do We Want to
Modified Witness a New Structure, New Chores Assigned to It? Do We Want
to Go with a Totally Different Type of a Position? We Need to Look,
Then, with Our Personnel People at the Ksas That We Have Prepared. We
Want to Make Sure Not Only Do The Ksas Explain the Job in a Very
Accurate Fashion So We Get The Right Group of Folks, but We Also Want to
Make Sure That it Draws out the Right Information So We Can Select the
Best Employee. And Then Finally I Think It\'s Good to Work with the
Personnel Specialists on the Interview Questions. It\'s Always Kind of
Nice to Bounce Your Ideas off of Others And Make Sure That You\'re Able
To Post Some ‑‑ Pose Some Good Questions, Accurate Questions, And
Questions That Allow People To Flourish, If You Want to Use That Word,
and Show Their Stuff When It\'s Time for the Interview. Another Area
That\'s Very Important That a Manager Needs To Look at in Hiring
Individuals Is Where Are They Likely to Be Housed? Is the Position That
You\'re Filling Such That Folks That Are Eligible to Compete for the
Position Are Located Right There In Your Same Office? Are They Within
the BLM but Perhaps in Other Offices? Maybe in the State Offices, the
Washington Office, the Training Center. Are They Within Other Agencies?
Are They Within Veterans Administration? Are They in the Universities?
Can a High School Student, College Student Be the Best Suited for the
Position. So a Manager Has to Really Take A Look at Those and the Trick
There Is to Make Sure That You Can Reach and You Design Your Advertising
Process to Reach the Right Crowd So You Don\'t End up Advertising One
Area and Really Have Missed the Boat. Finally, I Think the ‑‑ There
Might Be Some Constraints That Are Placed and I Don\'t Mean in That a
Negative Term, but There\'s Times When There May Be Hiring Freezes. We
Have Administrative Issues We\'re Trying to Get a Handle On. You May
Need an Individual That Can Come on Board Very Rapidly. You Need
Somebody Due to an Emergency Situation Within Two To Four Weeks. You May
Need an Individual for a Very Short Period of Time. So All of Those ‑‑
All Those Change Your Strategy on How You Advertise. So I Guess in
Conclusion I\'d Just Suggest That There\'s a Lot Of Options That a
Manager Needs To Consider. There\'s Some Timing Issues a Manager Needs
to Consider. And I Think a Well Thought out Selection Process Not Only
Makes Sure We Reach the Right Individuals That We Want in the Bureau of
Land Management, but That We Accurately Predict the Positions That We
Need and Will Go Forward and Have a Very Successful Selection If We\'ll
Do That.

T. Garrett: Thank You, Don, For That Overview of Why Managers Do What
They Do. In a Moment I Would like to Go Back to Larry Hamilton and Have
Larry Expand on That Question. And Also I\'d like to Remind Our Viewers
at Downlink Sites Around The Country, We\'re Eager to Hear From You and
We Would Ask You to Telephone or Fax Your Questions And Comments to the
Telephone Numbers Provided Earlier to Your Downlink Coordinators. Right
Now It\'s Time to Go to Our Audience and Marilyn Johnson.

M. Johnson: Hello, There. We\'re Looking to Our High‑level Audience Here
to Give Us Some Questions That You Want to Direct to Don Simpson. Anyone
with a Question?

Marilyn?

M. Johnson: Yes, over the Last Few Years We\'ve Had the Field
Organization Strategy. I Was Wondering How the Field Organization
Strategy Has Affected and Impacted the Position Vacancy Process?

M. Johnson: Don, Can You Help Us with That?

D. Simpson: Sure. I\'ll Maybe Take Part of That and Then Defer Maybe
Part to Melissa. I Have Been with BLM for Probably 25 Years and I Think
That\'s One of the Strengths That I See in BLM, it Doesn\'t Matter If
We\'re Expanding, Contracting, Opening Offices, Closing Offices, I Think
BLM Takes Very Good Care of the Employees and Makes That the Paramount
Reason For Taking Care of Whatever the Situation Is. So I Think with
this Recent Going To, You Know, Converting To a Two‑tiered Structure, I
Think BLM Has Had to Take Some Actions That Were Perhaps Unique Because
of the Restructuring. But I Think BLM Did a Very Good Job, at Least in
the Areas I\'m Familiar with as a Layer of the Organization Need to Go
Away to Help Place That Individual Where Their Skills Were Best Used and
To Protect the Grade and Obviously One of the Things Was To Protect the
Morale and Make The Employees Feel like They Had A Useful Job.

T. Garrett: Thank You, Don. I Wonder If We Can Go Back to Montana Now
and I Would like to Pose That Question to Larry and Ask Larry to Draw on
His Many Years in Management in BLM and Take a Look at That Question of
Why Managers Do What They Do.

L. Hamilton: Actually, Tony, I Have an Employee Here, June, Who Has a
Question That She Would like to Ask. So I\'d like to Start with Her
Question, Because it Relates To, I Think, What We\'re Going to Be
Discussing Here. So, June?

Thank You, Larry. Why Do Managers Sometimes Fill Vacancies Without
Advertising?

T. Garrett: Don, Would You Like to Take That Question?

D. Simpson: Sure. I Think There\'s a Variety of Reasons That Managers
Do, Guess, What They Do. That\'s the Title of this Topic. There\'s Times
When You May Have An Employee That Due to Restructuring of the
Organization You May Need to Reassign Someone. You May Have ‑‑ Maybe a
Temporary Assignment. It May Be Something That\'s Come Up, a Large Eis
Project, Something like That Where You Need to Temporarily Reassign
Individuals. I Think Managers Are Looking at Future Workload, Looking at
the Skills of the Individuals, They\'re Looking at the Budget
Constraints, They\'re Looking at The Downsized Environment We\'re
Dealing In, and There Are Times When the Best Move Is to Actually Take
Somebody That\'s in Place and Transfer Them to a New Position. I Think
the Primary Goal of Any Position That\'s Vacant, Be it Temporary or
Permanent, Is To, You Know, Have a Competitive Process, but There Are
Times When It\'s Necessary to Look Internally and Make Those Shifts
Internalry.

T. Garrett: All Right. June, Did That Answer Your Question?

Yes, it Did. Thank You.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go to the Telephones Now and We Have a Call from
Dorothy Right Here in Phoenix at the Phoenix Field Office. Good Morning,
Dorothea. Your Questions?

Caller: My Question Is I\'m Representing the Field Office Leadership
Team in the Phoenix Field Office. What We Would like to Know
Specifically Is Where in Writing Can We Find out How Credit Hours Impact
the Average Work‑month Cost.

T. Garrett: Melissa, Can You Help with Us That Question?

M. Dukes: Actually, I Have to Tell You That\'s Not an Area of Expertise
and What I Would like To Suggest You Do Is Contact Your Servicing
Personnel Office And Your Budget Officer. Pay Is a Relatively Complex
Issue and I Think a Lot of Times It Really Depends on the Specific
Situation on How You Impact Costs. So I\'m Sorry to Do That to You, But
I Think it Might Be Best Actually to Call Your Servicing Personnel
Office in the State Office.

Caller: Ok. Thank You, Melissa.

T. Garrett: Thank You for Calling. Let\'s Go Back to Montana Now and
Larry Hamilton in Billings.

L. Hamilton: Yeah, Tony. We Have Mark Fitzgerald with Us This Morning,
and He Has a Question He\'d like to Ask. Mark?

Thanks. There\'s a Perception That Management Reassigns Employees
Temporarily, Occasionally, and Then Once They Become Qualified, They
Hire Them for Those Jobs. Can You Explain this Sort of Tactic to the
Employees?

T. Garrett: Melissa?

M. Dukes: Basically a Lot of Times You Have a Couple of Issues Going On.
One, Initially Management Doesn\'t Anticipate Fulling the Job
Permanently. So They Just Put Someone in Temporarily. It Could Be a
Supervisor Is on a Special Assignment, it Could Be A Brand‑new Project
That Came Into the Office. So They\'re Just Assuming a Temporary Need.
Sometimes That Temporary Need Becomes Permanent, and It\'s Just As Easy
to Keep the Candidate in There. It\'s a Choice They Have. A Lot of Times
They Do Elect to Compete the Job. But Sometimes Maybe the Job Has
Developed or the Candidate\'s Position, They\'ve Assigned That Work
Elsewhere and it Just Works Effectively. So it Really Has to Do
Typically With the Temporary Need of the Organization at the Time
Becoming a Permanent Issue. Does That Answer Your Question Or Any More
Things You Need Me To Discuss?

I Think That Helps Out. Thanks.

M. Dukes: Ok.

T. Garrett: Thanks for the Question. Let\'s Go Back to Our Studio
Audience Now and Marilyn Johnson.

M. Johnson: We Have a Question from Larry from NTC. Larry, Your Question
Is?

My Question Is, in These Times of Declining Budgets, Is ‑‑ How Much Is
it Going to Cost To Move an Employee Going to Become More Important than
How Qualified Is the Employee? There Seems to Be, at Least on The
Grapevine, the Perception That People Are Being Hired Because of Where
They Are Rather Than Who They Are and How Much Qualification They Have.

M. Johnson: Don, Do You Want To Take That Question for Us?

D. Simpson: Well, I Can Speak To Part of it and Then Maybe Diane Can
Handle Some. Obviously with Moving Expenses I Think I\'ve Heard Some
Numbers as High as \$50,000 for a Move. That Obviously Impacts a Field
Office. It Impacts the Washington Office, Whoever\'s Paying for the
Move. So I Don\'t Know That Personally That I\'ve Seen Where the Move
Enters in That ‑‑ at All That Costs Going to Hire a Person Locally to
Save the Move. What I Think an Authorizing Officer or Selecting Official
Is Going to Look at Is If There Are Several Employees and They Are All
Equally Qualified and You Can\'t Separate Those Top Two or Three, One of
Them Is Local and You Can Obviously Save the Move, That\'s a
Consideration. You Know, it Should Be Considered and Managers I Think
Take That into Account.

D. Friez: I Have to Agree With What Diane Said. I Think There Are Cases
Where We Do Advertise in the Local Commuting Area Because We Have
Qualified Candidates in That Area and We Know We Can Make a Selection
Without Having to Pay A Move. But There Are Other Cases Where You Maybe
Have Candidates in the Local Commuting Area but You Want to Look
Broader. That\'s an Option Management Has. Like Don Said, I Don\'t Think
There Has Been Specific Cases Where We\'ve Selected Somebody That\'s Not
Qualified Because We Want to Save a Moving Cost. I Don\'t See That
Happening at All.

T. Garrett: All Right. Don, Would You Say the Questions And Issues
Facing Personnel Decisions Are the Most Difficult That Managers Have to
Deal with In the Course of Their Duties?

D. Simpson: Well, That\'s My Opinion. I Think, You Know, There\'s a Lot
Of Tough Decisions That Managers Face, the Failed Office Managers Now ‑‑
We Have More and More on Our Plate with less and less People If That You
Look at That Personnel Selection, First of All, You Are You\'re Dealing
with A Position in BLM, Have You, Indeed, Analyzed the Position And Are
You Filling with the Proper Grade? Are You Filling with the Proper Title
on the Position? And, Secondly, the Individual That You Put in There,
Especially Where You\'re Going Entry Level, You\'re Going to Have
Somebody in the Bureau for 30 Years. I Think the Managers That I\'m
Familiar with Would Consider These Probably the Most Difficult Decisions
and Probably The Most Lasting Decisions They Make in Their Careers.

T. Garrett: All Right. I Understand We Have Another Question Now from
Billings. So Let\'s Go Back to Larry Hamilton.

L. Hamilton: You\'ll Be Glad To Know, Tony, It\'s Continuing To Rain
Questions Here in Montana, So\... Patty Huffman Has a Question She Would
like to Ask the Panel.

Good Morning. The Bureau and the Department Are Sending Staff out to
Career And Job Fairs Doing Diversity Recruitment, and I Was Wondering
Why We Spend That Time and Effort When So Very Few Job Opportunities
Exist Right Now?

T. Garrett: We\'ll Try to Shed Some Sunlight on That for You Here in
Phoenix. Melissa?

M. Dukes: Actually, We Do Have ‑‑ If You Look at the Bureau Nationally,
We Do Have a Large Number of Entry‑level Vacancies We\'re Trying to
Fill. We Did Advertise Approximately 40 Vacancies this Academic Year. We
Have Been Able to Fund Most Of Them. We Identify These Jobs in August,
So I Don\'t Think the Budget Actually Came out Quite As We Hoped. But We
Do Have a Couple Issues Sitting out There. One, We Go Through Spurts of
Hiring and Then Not Hiring. And So Right Now Part of That Hiring‑not
Hiring Spurt Has Led Us to a Workforce That in Large Part Is Coming up
to Retirement Age. Just Because You\'re at Retirement Age Doesn\'t Mean
You\'re Going to Retire, but a Lot of Our Employees Are Beginning to
Think Bit, Many of Them Took the Option in the Last Couple Rounds of
Early‑outs. So We Do Have to Bring in Some Replacement Workers. One of
the Advantages of Students Is That They Are Not as Expensive as Trained,
Experienced Work You Are, a Gs‑ 5, a Gs‑7 Is Cheaper an Gs‑12. The Other
Thing Is They\'re Coming out of College with Current Theoretical
Knowledge in Their Particular Career Field. The Third Reason Is the
Bureau And Department Are Firmly Committed to Diversifying the
Workforce. It Is a Presidential Initiative As Well. So That the
Workforce Will Really Reflect the Nation\'s Population. That Does Take
Some Aggressive Recruiting and Entry Level Positions Are a Good Way to
Accomplish That Goal. So I Think It\'s like Three Different Reasons
We\'re All Trying to Address Simultaneously.

T. Garrett: How Would You From Your Perspective Answer That Question,
Diane?

D. Friez: Another Thing I Would like to Add Is Even Though We May Not
Have a Lot of Opportunities, We Do Have Some Opportunities for Students
and The Career Fairs and Getting out To Meet Students and People at The
Schools Is a Good Way to Educate the Public about BLM and That We\'re
Here and That There May Be Some Opportunities in the Future and That
Hopefully We Can Encourage Students to Study the Natural Resource Fields
and Eventually Seek a Career with BLM.

T. Garrett: All Right. Time to Move on to Our next Topic Now, and That
Topic We Call \"How Vacancies Are Filled.\" Here\'s Melissa to Lead That
Discussion about How Vacancies Are Filled.

M. Dukes: Thank You, Tony. As Don Said, There Are a Lot of Issues That
Management Looks at When They\'re Getting Ready to Fill a Vacancy. You
Know, Do We Want to Go Internal, External, Where Are The Best Candidates
in the First Place We Typically Start Is with Internal Candidates, Those
People That Currently Work for The Federal Government. We Can Pick
Through Merit Promotion Because We Want to Consider Current People as
That Current Grade Level, as We May Use an Interest Announcement Because
We Are Looking at Reassignment Eligibles or Possibly Filling a Temporary
Need of 120 Days or Less. We May Elect to Fill a Job Through a Detail.
We Have Employees Who Are Interested, Have Indicated Maybe During a
Performance Review on Or Based on Some Personal Training They\'re Really
Interested in Trying a Different Career Field and We May Use Details as
a Way to Fill That Job. We Also May Look at Noncompetitive Assignments.
I Know That Question Came up to Don. Noncompetitive Assignments
Basically Are Actions Where Under the Merit System Rules, Typically
Governed by the Merit Promotion Plan, We Don\'t Have to Advertise Jobs.
That Requirement Basically Is If We\'re Reassigning Someone, a Gs 9 to a
Gs‑9, a Change to Lower Grade, Which Occasionally Happens, an 11 to a 9,
it Could Be a Temporary Promotion of 120 Days or Less, or a Detail
Assignment to a Higher Graded Job, 120 Days or Less. So There\'s No
Regulatory Reason In Certain Circumstances That We Advertise. So
Competitive Assignments Is as Much an Option as Maybe Merit Promotion or
Interest Announcements. But Let\'s Say We Want to Explore Beyond Current
Federal Government Employees. We Might Want to Look at External
Candidates and this Could Include Former Federal Employees Such as
Reinstatement Eligibles, Student Employees, Recent College Graduates. I
Think Recent College Graduates Is an Area That We\'ve Talked About as a
Lot of Us Remember We Did Have to Come off of an Opm Certificate, Very
Nice Cumbersome Process Where You Had To Submit Your Application to Opm
in a Timely Manner and That They Ranked It. Another Way Is the
Outstanding Scholar Program Where We Can Talk to People Who Are
Graduate, Who Have Graduated Recently, in The Administrative Fields Such
As Rec. Planner, Computer Specialist Who Have Excellent Gpas in Their
Major Nor Their Academic Career and We Can Hire Them Without Going to
Opm. We Could Go to College Campuses And Recruit Them Directly. Another
Option Which Does Doesn\'t Typically Require Going To Opm, We\'re
Looking at Mid‑level or Senior Level Jobs, Gs‑9s, 11s, 12s, 13s. We
Could Elect to Recruit Private Sector Candidates, People Who Have a Lot
of Experience in the Private Sector, Possibly State or Local
Governments, or Tribal Governments, Because What They\'re Really
Bringing, External Candidates, and These People Particularly, Is a
Diversity of Experience, a Diversity of Ideas, Different Network to the
Bureau That Will Really Enhance Our Ability to Do Our Work. Other
External Candidates Could Include Veterans, the Federal Government Is
Strongly Committed To the Employment of Veterans. We Recently Had
Additional Legislation, the Veterans Act of 1988 That Expanded How We Go
About Recruiting Veterans for Federal Employment. The Government, and
Right Now The Office of Personnel Management Is Trying to Encourage the
Employment of Disabled. These Could Be Candidates Who Are Physically
Disabled or Have Other Disabilities. Once Again, Part of That Idea of
Reflecting All Segments of Society Incorporating Hiring Disabled
Individuals into the Government. We Bring Them in with the Assurance and
the Expectation That They Can Perform the Critical Parts of the Job.
It\'s Just That Their Disability May Have Limited Life Functions. But
They Can Do the Work and They Become Excellent Employees. Another Option
I Think the Bureau Is Really Committed to Is The Recruiting of Students.
Either as Temporaries or Through The Student Career Experience Program
That We Used to Call Cooperative Education. It\'s a Great Way to Bring
New Blood, New Ideas, Diversity of Education into the Bureau as Well as
Build up Our Workforce And Bring in Some Just People Who May Decide to
Be with the Bureau for the next 20, 30 Years. So We Look at a Lot of
Different Ideas. We Look at the Issues Don Raised In His Discussion
about Strategy To Decide How Best to Hire Candidates and What Options.
These Are a Few. We Probably Have 40‑plus Ways to Hire Individuals, but
These Are, I Think, the Few That the Bureau Uses Most Frequently.

T. Garrett: Thank You, Melissa. Let\'s Go Back to Our Studio Audience at
the National Training Center.

M. Johnson: We Have a Question Here from Ivy from the Arizona State
Office.

I\'m Interested in Being Considered for a Position in a Different Series
but at My Current Grade. And I\'d like to Know If I\'d Have To Apply
under the Vacancy Announcement or Can I Be Considered Outside of That
Announcement?

M. Johnson: Melissa?

M. Dukes: Management\'s Already Issued a Vacancy Announcement, So
They\'re Soliciting Applications. So If You Want Consideration for That
Job, Definitely Get Your Application In. If You\'re Aware of Somebody
Talking about Issuing a Vacancy Announcement, It\'s in a Career Field
You Really Are Interested In and It\'s Not a Promotion, There Is No
Harm, No Problem Going and Actually and Talking To Them and Saying, You
Know, Right Now I Do Computer Specialist Work, and I\'d Really Like to
Go into Personnel. Got to Tell You Personnel Is an Exciting Career
Field. Talk to That Manager. See If Your Background Qualifies You. See
If That Opportunity ‑‑ They\'re Discussing Advertising, That You May Be
Able to Fit That Field Without Advertising but If The Ad Is Open,
Definitely Apply.

T. Garrett: We\'ve Had a Question Faxed in from One of Our Field
Offices. The Question Is ‑‑ Why Do Some Personnel Actions Take a Year to
Be Processed? Do Some Personnel Actions Take a Year to Be Processed?

M. Dukes: I Hate to Tell You, Yes, That Is True. We, in Fact, Had a Job
in Denver And this Is Frequently Why this Happens, the Advertised a
Gs‑13, 14, Safety Manager, We Had 125 Applications. We Elected to Use a
Panel to Evaluate the Basically Qualified, Which There Were 99. By the
Time We Got a List of the Selecting Official, I Believe Six Months Had
Passed. That List Was 33 People. She Established a Selection
Recommendation Panel, Which Interviewed the Bulk of the Candidates That
We Referred for Selection. Gets to it Her. She\'s Ready to Do Her
Interviews Of the Top Five Candidates. We Are Now ‑‑ Had Opened That Job
in November and it Is Now August. So There Are Times Just the Pure
Volume of Candidates Causes Us To Go for a Long Time. There Are Also a
Couple Other Issues, as I Said with Our Students, We Went in August and
Asked for Potential Vacancies, And the Jobs That We Had Identified in
August We\'re Not Sure Funded Now. So Sometimes You Think You Have
Funding and Then You Don\'t. So a Lot of Reasons Why. It\'s Not
Intentional. It Just Sometimes Happens.

T. Garrett: Is That an Issue For You in Montana, Diane, the Length of
Processing Time?

D. Friez: Yes, That Has Come Up and We\'ve Discussed It. I Think There
Are a Come Things That Play into That. One of the Things Is a Lot of
Times When a Position Gets Approved to Recruit, the Position Description
Has Not Been Classified Yet. So That Takes Some Time. It\'s Not Part of
the Staffing Process but Takes Time in the Overall Process. Another
Thing I\'ve Seen Happen Is That the Personnel Office Gets the
Qualifications Done, The Roster Referred out to the Selecting Official
and Then Because of Their Workload and Commitments, They\'re Not Able to
Get to the Actual Interviewing And Making a Selection Right Away. So
Sometimes That Figures In. I Guess the Other Thing That I Think Figures
in Is When You Select Somebody and There\'s a Move Required, We\'re
Required to Give 60 Days for the Move. So from Beginning to End,
Sometimes it Can Take up to a Year.

T. Garrett: All Right. I Understand We Have Another Question from Our
Audience up in Billings. So Let\'s Go Back to Montana and Larry
Hamilton.

L. Hamilton: We Have Another Question, Tony. It\'s from Tom, Our Fire
Management Officer and since It\'s Raining Across Montana Today, He Was
Able to Come in And Participate with Us. We\'re Glad to Have Him Here
with Us. Tom?

Thanks, Larry. We Have Fire Management Employees Here in Montana Who
Have Recently Completed the Technical Fire Management Program. As They
Begin to Apply for Professional Fire Management Positions in Other
States in the BLM, They\'re Discovering That For Very Similar Positions,
They\'ll Be Rated as Qualified in One State and Unqualified in Another
State. Can You Tell Us Why There\'s this Apparent Inconsistency in
Rating Candidates for Professional Fire Management Jobs from State
Office to State Office?

T. Garrett: Diane, What about Tom\'s Question?

D. Friez: Hi, Tom. Thanks for That Question. Actually We Have Recognized
That There Is a Problem in this Area Both the Personnel Community and
The Fire Community Have Been Talking about this and There Have Been Some
Inconsistencies In the Qualifications and We\'re In the Process of
Trying to Resolve That. In Fact We Had a Meeting Last Week in Denver and
What We\'re Doing Is Working on Revising the Supplemental Qualifications
Standard for the 401 Series and That Will Be Coming out for Comment in
the next Few Weeks. Hopefully with That Action and Other Steps We\'re
Trying to Take We Will Be Able to Resolve Some Inconsistencies and Have
People Consistently Qualified for These Fire Jobs in the 401 Series.

T. Garrett: Tom, Does That Answer Your Question in Billings?

Yeah, We\'ll Be Looking Forward to Commenting on That Draft.

T. Garrett: Thank You. Let\'s Go Back to Our Studio Here In the National
Training Center And Marilyn Johnson.

M. Johnson: Yes, Tony, We Have a Question Here from Yelda. Your Question
Is?

I Live in Denver Where the National Park Service Has Run a Rif, and I
Understand If the Park Service Employee and I Apply for a Vacancy
Announcement That They Will Be Given the Job. Why Is That?

M. Johnson: Melissa, Would You like to Take a Chance on That One?

M. Dukes: Sure. That Is an Unfortunate Situation That Recently Happened
in Denver. Basically as the Government Actively Pursued Downsizing When
President Clinton Came into Office, One of the Things That The
Government Really Was Concerned about Was Finding Employment for its
Workers Who Were Targeted to Be Separated. Basically What Happened at
the Park Service Is They Do Have a Number of Employees Who Have Received
Separation Notices. If They Apply for a Merit Promotion Announcement and
It\'s Not a Promotional Opportunity For Them, it Has to Be a
Reassignment or Change to Lower Grade, They Are Well Qualified For the
Position and it Is in The Commuting Area of the Job They\'re Losing, We
Are Obligated To Offer Them That Job. They Don\'t Get the Same Priority
For Promotion. They Don\'t Get the Same Priority Outside of Denver. But
We Are Obligated to Do That. A Couple of Reasons for That Based on
President Clinton\'s Executive Order. One Had to Do with Just the Right
and Decent Thing to Do. I Think It\'s Part of the President\'s
Discussion. But the Other Thing Is It\'s Actually Financially a Good
Decision for the Government. Severance Pay, Early Retirement Is Very
Experience for the ‑‑ Expensive for the Government and This Way If We
Can Place People Within the Government We Do Save Quite a Bit of Money.
So, Yes, There Is Regulatory Requirement for That. Does That Answer Your
Question?

T. Garrett: Thank You, Melissa. Let\'s Go Back to Billings Now Where We
Have Another Question From Our Audience There at the Montana State
Office.

L. Hamilton: Bart Has Another Question, Tony That He Would Like to Ask.
Bart?

We Want to Start Some Real Cross Fire Now with the Panel.

T. Garrett: Watch the Jerry Springer Show, Bart. You\'re on the Wrong
Channel.

Why Do We Sometimes See Some Jobs Advertised Outside the Agency and the
Department and Then Sometimes We See Jobs That Stay Within. What Is the
‑‑ What Are Your ‑‑ What Are Your Decision‑making Processes for
Advertising These Jobs the Way You Do?

T. Garrett: Diane, Would You Like to Answer That Question?

D. Friez: Thanks for That Question, Bart. I Think, Again, like We Talked
Earlier, There\'s a Lot of Options That Management ‑‑ Managers Consider
When They\'re Filling Positions, and Sometimes There Are Candidates in
the Local Commuting Area or in the Agency. Other Times Maybe We\'re
Establishing a Position That\'s a Little Bit Different That We Haven\'t
Actually Filled Before And We Want to Look at the Broadest Range of
Candidates Throughout and So We Advertise, You Know, on a Broader Scale
Governmentwide. So I Think it Just Depends on The Individual Situation
and the Individual Circumstances of the Job, and What We\'re Looking
For, What the Manage Certificate Looking For.

T. Garrett: All Right. Let\'s Go Back to the Phones Now. We Have a Call
from Joann in Utah. Good Morning, Joann.

Caller: Good Morning.

T. Garrett: What Is Your Question for the Panel?

Caller: Why Sit That Whenever A Manager Rewrites a Position Description
and Sends it into Personnel for Reclassification It Seems in Our Office
it Takes Somewhere Between Four and Six Months to Get it Back?

T. Garrett: Melissa, Would You Answer That Question?

M. Dukes: Sure. A Couple Reasons. One, Workload That the Other ‑‑ As We
Have Been Reorganizing, We Do Have Some Priority Issues, And That ‑‑
since It\'s Just a Position Rewrite, Typically on a Rewrite, May Not
Impact Grade Level and Consequently May Not Impact Pay. There Are More
Priorities. Sometimes as We\'re Looking at It, We Start to Discover, Are
We Really Describing What it Is We Need to Do. Is the Job Evolving in a
Different Way? So There Are a Lot of Discussions Going on Between
Personnel and the Manager Regarding the Content of the Position
Description. Do We Really Get What it Is We\'re Trying to Achieve with
the Rewrite. So I Would Say Workload and Maybe Some Dynamics Going on
Between the Two Parties Involved In the Classification. If There Is ‑‑
There Are Very Likely Going to Be a Qualification Broadcast Coming Up in
Three or Four Months. You Might Want to Ask the Question of the
Classifier. I Know There Are a Lot of Issues In Classification. I Am
Sure They Would Be Willing To Address That in Much More Detail on That
Broadcast.

T. Garrett: Thanks for Calling, Joann. We Have a Question Faxed in from
California. That Question Is ‑‑ Considering Our Workforce Is Shrinking,
There Are less People Doing the Work, Our Jobs Are Continuing to Evolve
and a Lot Of Times Our Duties Warrant a Higher Grade. Why Is the Person
Who Is Doing The Job Have to Apply for Their Own Job? This Is
Considering a Possible Grade Promotion. Melissa?

M. Dukes: a Couple Reasons. That We Would Actually Look at Possibly
Advertising and I Think That Has Happened Probably in Every Office in
the Bureau. You May Have, Let\'s Say, Five Land Law Examiners Performing
on The Same Position Description, And One Has Indicated Interest In
Doing More Complex Work of a Specific Nature. That Work Comes In, That
Work Is Assigned to the Individual Land Law Examiner, and It\'s Become
Permanent and in Reality Looks Like it Should Be at a Higher Grade. Now,
the Candidate Didn\'t Ever Get That Higher Grade of Work Competitively.
They Are ‑‑ There Are Four Other Land Law Examiners Sitting There
Wondering Why Didn\'t I Get That Chance. They Would Really like That
Opportunity to Be Assigned That Higher Grade of Work. And So Management
Really Has an Obligation, Then, to Open That Up to the Other Candidates
Sitting in the Office. One of the Reasons We Do ‑‑ Sometimes ‑‑ They
Frequently Are The Only Person in the Office Doing That Kind of Work.
They Are Obviously Become the Logical Person to Absorb It. But a Lot
Times That\'s Not True, Other than a Personal Interest, And Competition
Is Really More Appropriate and Consistent with The Merit System
Principles.

T. Garrett: Thank You. Another Question from Our Audience in Billings.
Back to Montana.

L. Hamilton: in Order to Keep The Panel on Their Toes this Morning,
Tony, We Decided to Salt the Group Here in Billings With a Personnel
Management Specialist. So Tracy Thorke Has Joined Us And She Has a
Question for the Panel. Tracy?

Yes, When You\'re Looking at a Lot of Announcements on the Internet
Site, They Reference The Career Transition Assistance Plan and What Is
the Career Transition Assistance Plan and Why Do We Have to Follow the
Plan Regulations and When Is it Enforced and When Don\'t We Use The
Criteria That\'s in the Vacancy Announcement Concerning The Career
Transition Assistance Plan?

T. Garrett: All Right. We\'re Going to Toss That One to Melissa.

M. Dukes: Thank You, Tracy. Actually, the Question Regarding The Rif in
Park Service Is a Specific Example of the Career Transition Assistance
Program That Is a Program That the President Established to Deal With
Placement of Downsized Workers. We Are Required to Advertise Jobs and If
These Candidates With Separation Notices in a Rif Apply Are Well
Qualified. So That Actually Is the Career Transition Assistance Program.
It Applies to Almost Every Vacancy That We Have.

T. Garrett: Thank You. Maybe the next Part of the Program We\'ll Be
Tossing Questions up to Your Audience in Montana, Larry, So Stand by for
That. Let\'s Go Back to Our Studio Audience in Phoenix.

M. Johnson: Tony, We Have a Question Here from Shelly, and Shelly, Your
Question Is?

Yes, I Was Wondering Why We Don\'t See More Upward Mobility
Announcements?

M. Johnson: Diane, Would You Like to Field That for Us?

D. Friez: Sure. Thanks for That Question. Upward Mobility Is a Great
Opportunity to Give Somebody an Opportunity to Change Career Fields and
I Think That in Montana at Least We\'ve Done a Few of Those Kind of
Positions Just Recently. We Did an Upward Mobility into Our BLM Ranger
Position Which Was Kind of Unique. It\'s One of Those Options That\'s
Out There, and I Think Personnel Has Tried to Encourage Management to Do
It. At Times, Because There\'s Some Training Issues Associated One Ward
Mobility, You Know, Generally a Longer Term Training Plan, I Think
Sometimes Managers Feel like They Need Somebody to Hit the Ground
Running, So to Speak, and They Don\'t Have Time To Engage in a Long
Training Plan. That\'s Maybe the Reason They Don\'t Select That Option.
But it Is Definitely a Great Option and We Should Utilize It.

T. Garrett: Thank You, Diane. At this Point We\'re Going to Shift Folk
Us and Turn to Our Next Topic, and That\'s Called \"What Happens to My
Application?\" And to Lead Us in That Discussion, Once Again, Melissa
Dukes.

M. Dukes: Thank You, Tony. As We Were Getting Ready to Do This
Broadcast, I Kept on Thinking of That ‑‑ I Think We Decided Freddie and
the Dreamers Song \"How Do You Do What Do You To Me?\" What Do We Do to
Applications When They Come into Personnel? Basically, You Know, We Get
Applications When We Open a Vacancy Announcement and the Vacancy
Announcement Explains Specialized Experience, Timing Grade, the Closing
Date, If There\'s Education Required. All of the Information That We Use
to Evaluate a Candidate Pretty Much Is Explained in That Vacancy
Announcement. The First Thing We Do Is Basic Eligibility, Do You Meet
Time And Grade. Did You Submit Your Application In a Timely Manner? The
Announcement Says at the Point in Time the Application Has to Be
Received in the Personnel Office and We Have to Hold to That Rule
Because We\'ve Published It. The Last Thing We Look at Is, Are You in
the Area of Consideration? One of the Things We Talked About as a
Sidebar Is a Lot of Interior Announcements on Usa Jobs Are Going to Have
an Area Of Consideration That Says this Is a BLM Job, Area of
Consideration Is Governmentwide, Local Commuting Area, and the Job Is in
Phoenix. In Reality, in Any Doi Employee Can Apply for Any Doi Merit
Promotion Announcement Whether In the Stated Area of Consideration or
Not. It\'s in Our Very Brief Merit Promotion Plan, One of the Few Rules
That Are In, There but It\'s an Appear Shun I Don\'t Think Most
Employees Are Aware Of. But That\'s the Last Thing We Do On Eligibility,
Is Were You in The Area of Consideration for The Vacancy Announcement?
Next Thing We Do Is Basic Qualification. Is There a Positive Education
Requirement and If There Is, Do You Meet That? We Also Look at Your
Experience. Do You Have the Specialized Experience it Takes to Qualify
For the Position? Now, We\'re Using Two Documents Essentially to
Determine Basic Eligibility. One Is the Opm Qualification Standards.
Used to Be Referred to as the X‑118. Those Are Published by Opm. They
Are Governmentwide. One of the Things That Opm Did In, I Think, August
of \'94, Was To Change How They Defined Specialized Experience, and Now
They Define it as Experience That Has Provided You the Knowledge, Skills
and Abilities To Perform the Duties of the Position. So What We Do Is We
Actually Go Back to the Position Description And See If Your Background
Experience Qualified You for That. Now, this Is Kind of Confusing For a
Lot of People Because One Of the Things We\'re Looking At, Let\'s Say We
Advertise a Wildlife Biologist Gs‑12. People Assume That Every Wildlife
Biologist Qualifies for Every Other Wildlife Biologist, But That\'s Not
Necessarily True. Let\'s Say We\'re Advertising a Gs‑12 Wildlife
Biologist in the Desert District of California That Has a Requirement,
Knowledge of the Habitat of Endangered Desert Species and Let\'s Say
Montana Is Also Advertising a Gs‑12 Wildlife Biologist That Requires
Knowledge of the Habitat of the Bighorn Sheep. Very Different Kinds of
Knowledge, and a Candidate Could In Fact Possess One but Not the Other.
So in Reality, While It\'s the Same Title, Series and Grade, You May
Qualify for One Job but Not the Other Because the Positions Are That
Significantly Different. But Once We\'ve Determined Basic
Qualifications, the next Thing We Look at Is the Ksas That Are Posted in
the Vacancy Announcement, and We Evaluate Applications Against Those
Ksas. What We Have Done Is Developed a Rating Plan That Is a Scoring
Mechanism That We Use to Evaluate Applications to Determine How Who Is,
of All of These Candidates, Exceptional or Excellent and Who Is
Adequate. In Reality, Managers Are Interested in Seeing a Lot of
Candidates, but They Would Rather See Exceptional Candidates. So We Do
Actually Have to Define A Way to Differentiate the Two Groups and We Do
Through That a Rating Plan. Now, the Rating Plan May Be Applied to the
Applications by a Subject Matter Expert, by a Personnel Specialist, or a
Rating and Ranking Panel. It Is Typically up to the Selecting Official
How They Would like to Have Those Applications Evaluated. Once We\'ve
Done and That We\'ve Identified the Candidates Who Should Be Referred
for Selection And They\'re Referred to as Either Best Qualified or Well
Qualified, They Are Referred in Alphabetical Order. Because, You Know,
What We\'re Really Looking at Is Your Application, and as Don Said in
His Presentation, There\'s a Lot More to Selection than Just the Written
Piece of Paper. There Are Interviews. There Are Reference Checks. So
When You\'re ‑‑ When You Refer To the Selection Official, the Reason
You\'re Referred in Alphabetical Order Is You\'re Considered to Be One
among Equals at That Point in Time. Once the Applications Are Referred,
Basically the Selecting Official, Selection Recommendation Panel,
Selecting Panel, Whichever Actually Is Participating in the Process,
Will Conduct Interviews. Some or All of the Candidates or None of the
Candidates, They Will Do Reference Checks and What They\'re Really
Looking for Is the Criteria That it Takes to Perform the Full Range of
the Position but Maybe for Information We Can\'t Get from Your
Application. For Example, on a Reference Check, You Might Find Out, If
Your Job Really Requires That The Person Work in a Team, You Know, How
Does this Person Work In a Team? You Can\'t Tell That from an
Application Really Well. But Can You from a Reference Check and Can You
from an Interview. So What They\'re Looking for Is To Really Get a Broad
Range of Knowledge or Information about The Candidate So They Can Then
Pick the Candidate from Those Who Are Referred Who Best Meets The
Position Requirements. And as I Said Earlier, Position Requirements Vary
from Position To Position. So While You May Be an Excellent Candidate
for One Job, You May Not Be an Excellent Candidate For the next Job
Because While They Have the Same Title, Series And Grade, They Have
Significantly Different Position Requirements. So Basically That\'s Kind
of What Happens in a Nutshell That Takes Two Weeks, One Week or Eight
Months in the Case of That One Job to Get a Selection Narrowed Down.

T. Garrett: Thanks, Melissa. Let\'s Check in with Our Studio Audience
Here at the Training Center and Marilyn Johnson.

M. Johnson: Thanks, Tony. We Have a Question from Terry From the NTC.
Terry?

Yes, I Recently Applied for a Job and Was Interviewed but Not Selected,
and I Listened Your Process. What Can I Do to Find out Where I Could
Improve in That Process And What the Reasons Were Why I Wasn\'t
Selected?

M. Johnson: Melissa, Can You Help Terry?

M. Dukes: Certainly. This Applies to All Employees. First Thing We like
to Do Is to Really Suggest That You Talk to The Selecting Official. It
Could Be That Maybe the Candidate That They Picked Had More Directly
Related Background, Maybe Some Related Training, Related Job Experience,
and That\'s Information You Need to Know to Make Yourself Competitive.
So Ask the Selecting Official Where They Saw Weaknesses. It Could Be
Something as Simple As Your Application Didn\'t ‑‑ Wasn\'t Really Tight
and it Didn\'t Reflect Your Ability to Communicate in Writing ‑‑ Maybe
As Well as Would You like it To. Maybe Your Interview Didn\'t Go As Well
and You Didn\'t Present Yourself as Well. So the Selecting Official Is
More than Willing to Give Those Clues on What They Saw That Maybe You
Could Work on to Improve. You Could Also Ask the Staffing Specialist Who
Evaluated Your Application and this Applies for Candidates Who Are
Referred as Well as Candidates Who Aren\'t Referred. Ask the Question,
What Sit You\'re Missing, What Do You Need To Make Yourself More
Competitive. Sometimes You Are an Excellent Candidate and There\'s
Nothing You Can Really Do. It\'s Just That the Candidate Who Was
Selected Really Matched the Job 100% and You Only Matched it 90%. Not a
Lot of Improvement There. You\'re Really Looking at How Many People
You\'re Competing Against. Does That Answer Your Question?

Thank You. Yes.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go Back to Billings Now. I Understand We Have Another
Question from Our Audience at The Montana State Office.

L. Hamilton: Yeah, Tony, Tom Would like to Ask Another Question. Tom?

Thanks. You Mentioned Earlier BLM\'s Commitment to Hiring Veterans. Can
You Tell Me How a Candidate\'s Status as a Veteran Is Factored into the
‑‑ Factored into the Selection Process?

T. Garrett: Diane, Would You Like to Answer That Question?

D. Friez: Sure. A Candidate Who Has Veterans Preference Eligibility When
Applying Through Opm Is Given Veterans Preference, and That Can Have an
Impact on the Score, How They\'re Rated and How They\'re Referred. Once
a Person Is Working for BLM, They Apply for Vacancies Through the
Competitive Process As a Permanent Employee, and the Veterans Preference
Then No Longer Plays a Role in How They\'re Referred to the Selecting
Official.

T. Garrett: All Right. Tom, Does That Answer Your Question?

it Does. Thank You.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go Back to The Telephone Calls. We Have Another
Question from The Field Office Here in Phoenix. Good Morning, What\'s
Your Question?

Caller: Hi, this Is Dorothy Again. We\'ve Had Our Own Group Discussion
and Panel in a Room Here in the Training Center, and What We Wanted to
Know Specifically Is the Ksa Factors. There\'s Some Vacancy
Announcements I Understand That Go out That Doesn\'t Require Ksas Or it
Lists ‑‑ or Including That As Optional. We Wanted to Know Specifically
What Does Do That to the Candidates Who Chooses Not to Include That
Information as Part Of Their Package?

T. Garrett: All Right Are the Ksas Really Optional or Not?

M. Dukes: Technically They\'re Optional, Tony, but If You Want To Make
Yourself More Competitive, I Would Really Strongly Recommend You Address
Them. I Think Actually in the next Segment, Diane Is Going to Go Into a
Whole Lot of Detail to Put Your Application Together to Give Yourself
the Bet Shot from The Job.

T. Garrett: What about Your Perspective?

D. Simpson: I Think from the Authorized Officer, Selecting Official,
Whatever Term You Want To Use, Perspective Is, What You Are Trying to Do
Is Sell Yourself. The Ksas Allow You a Page or Two To Summarize Your
Background, Skills, Training and Ability to Function in That Job. I
Think If You Send Your Package In Without a Ksas, That\'s a Legal
Package, but the Reality Is You Haven\'t Taken the Opportunity to Take
That One or Two Pages and Summarize Your Background as it Relates to
That Position. I Think You\'re at Somewhat of a Disadvantage. The
Authorized Officers I\'m Aware Of, I Personally like ‑‑ That\'s Probable
Eat First Thing I Look at Is That Quick Summary Of a Person\'s History.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go Back to Marilyn and the Audience in the Studio.

M. Johnson: Thank You, Tony. We Have a Question Here from Linda. Linda?

this Question Is Directed to Melissa. You Mentioned Time and Grade and
Recently I Heard That You Didn\'t Have to Serve One Year in the Time and
Grade, and I\'d like to You Explain That. If You Haven\'t Held a Higher
Grade Before, I Was Told That Could You Move up into a Position Quicker.
Is That True?

M. Dukes: Thank You, Linda, For That Question Because There Is Some
Controversy on That Issue. Opm Had Actually Recommended Regulations to
Abolish Time And Grade Requirements. The Outcry on That Was So Loud,
Time and Grade, in Fact, Still Exists. Now, There Are a Couple of Ways
That Time and Grade Actually Can Be Waived. One Is, Let\'s Say That We
Have a Federal Employee Who Is a Gs‑7 And Normally They Would Have to Be
a Gs‑7 for One Year Before They Could Be a Gs‑9. But Let\'s Say Prior to
Coming to The Government They Have Extensive Private‑sector, Military,
Other Government Background That in Fact Is Already Qualifying Them, We
Could Go Through an O ‑‑ Through Opm and Hire Them That Way. They Could
‑‑ May, in Fact, Be Eligible on a Different Kind of Appointing Authority
and We Could Hire Them. But They Also Have To, Then, Serve Their
Probation Period Over. So There Are Some Trade‑offs. If You Go Back to
Opm. It Is a Way Around. It\'s Based on Other Experience, Nonfederal
Experience, but Pretty Hard to Implement. Under Upward Mobility That Are
Also Ways to Waive Time and Grade but Usually We\'re at the Gs‑5, 6
Level and That\'s Part That of That Training, Where the Training Is So
Intense, What You\'re Learning Is Six Months Is What a Person Would
Normally Learn in a Year.

T. Garrett: Marilyn Has Another Participant with a Question. So Back to
Marilyn.

M. Johnson: Thank You, Tony. We Have a Question Here from Sheryl. Your
Question Is?

My Question Relates to Selection Panels. I\'ve Been on Some Panels in
the Past Where I Work, and I\'ve Seen Positions Done Both Ways, and I
Know You Mentioned Earlier It\'s Up to the Manager ‑‑ It\'s at Their
Discretion Which Way They Decide to Do a Position That ‑‑. Can You Tell
Me If There Is a Reason for That and If it Creates Any Kind of
Disadvantage Or Unfairness If One Position Is Done One Way and Another
One Is Done the Other Way, You Know, at Different Points in Time?

M. Dukes: Basically the ‑‑ There\'s No Difference Because You\'re Doing
the Same Process For an Entire Vacancy. So Whether You Use the Selection
Panel, a Selection Recommendation Panel, Selecting Official Goes on
Their Own, Since They\'re Doing That for All Of the Candidates Who Have
Applied, at Least Everyone at That Time Is Being Evaluated Consistently.
The Reasons Managers Use Those Kind of Panels and Don, You Might Want to
Jump In, Has to Do With a Couple Things. The Nature of the Job They\'re
Filling. Let\'s Say They\'re Looking at Some Entry‑level Candidates and
They Want a Panel to Look at It. Let\'s Say You Were Only Referred Seven
Candidates and the Selecting Official Can Handle on It Their Own. So
It\'s Very Circumstantial, but Candidates Through the Entire Selection
Process Are Treed the Same Through That Process.

T. Garrett: Don, Comments?

D. Simpson: I Think I Would Agree with What Was Just Said And Just Kind
of an Additive, I Guess, from My Perspective, There Are Some Positions
That You Fill That, Let\'s Say, It\'s ‑‑ My Background Is Forestry and
We\'re Hiring an Air Specialist. I May Have Not Have the Necessary
Background to Take a Look at 30 Applications and Would Desire a Panel of
Folks More in Tune to the Qualifications There to Help Whittle That down
to a Group That Could Then Send That Forward. I Think There\'s Other
Times When If You Have an Entry‑level Position and You Have 200
Applications, Just the Shear Volume Probably Tells You You Would like
Some Help from a Panel. I Think the Tendency among Most Authorized
Officers, Selecting Officials Is Probably, When in Doubt, Give Me More.
I Would Rather See a Larger Group and Be Able to Select. But There Are
Occasions That It\'s Just Worthwhile to Have That Group Help You Bring
That Down to a Smaller Group. We\'re Also Talking Time Frames Earlier.
Sometimes That Can Help You Considerably If You Have a Two‑months\'
Worth of Work on Your Plate and You\'re Not Going To Be Able to Get to
That Selection as the Authorized Officer, That Panel Can Then
Participate and Help You Get That down to a Workable Number And Work in
That Time Frame Where You Can\'t Be Working. So I Think It\'s Personal
Preference. Depends on the Position and Depends on the Background and
The Knowledge of That Position Of the Authorized Officer.

T. Garrett: All Right. We\'re Receiving Your Questions That Are Being
Faxed in and We Will Get to Those in Just a Moment. Right Now Let\'s Go
Back to the Billings and the Audience at the State Office in Montana.

L. Hamilton: Tony, Are You Familiar with the Term \"Rolling Rain\"?

T. Garrett: No, Why Don\'t You Explain That to Us Here in Phoenix. Even
the Term \"Rain\" Is Unfamiliar to Many of Us.

L. Hamilton: this next Question Is Going to Be What We Refer to as a
Rolling Range Question and Patty Is Going to Ask That Question. So it
Will Be Self‑explanatory. Patty?

When the Selecting Official Receives the Roster for Their ‑‑ Is this
Right ‑‑ for Their Vacant Position, Are They Required to Interview All
of Those Applicants That Are on That Roster?

T. Garrett: Diane?

D. Friez: Hi, Patty. Thanks for That Question. The Merit Promotion Plan
Does Not Require That All Applicants Be Interviewed. It\'s Left up to
the Manager. In Some Cases, for Example, in Montana, We Do Have a Policy
That Managers Are Required to Interview All Applicants That Are Referred
to Them Unless They Get an Exception by the State Director, and as You
Can See, He\'s Kind of Did You Have Tough To Deal With, So it Doesn\'t
Happen Too Often.

T. Garrett: All Right. Thanks for That Question. Let\'s Go Back to the
Phones Now And We Have a Question from Pam In Utah. Good Morning, Pam.

Caller: Yes, It\'s My Understanding That When You Hire Someone in a
Clerical Position, If it Is a 4 or Below, That You Go off the Clerical
List. If Not, It\'s a 5 or Above, You Can Go from the Ksas. Is That
True? Or Can You Hire a Clerical Person ‑‑ Clerical Person at a 4 Level
Without Going off the Clerical List?

T. Garrett: Melissa?

M. Dukes: I Think it Depends On the Method You\'re Using to Fill the
Job. If You Use Opm and We\'re Talking A Clerical Job, Yes, You Have to
Use the Opm Clerical Test. If You Are Using Merit Promotion Or Something
like Student Employment, the Clerical Test Is Not Utilized and You Use
the Ksas for the Position Itself.

T. Garrett: a Quick Question Faxed to Us ‑‑ I Noticed the Term on Well
Qualified on Vacancy Announcements. Is this Different from Being
Considered Best Qualified?

M. Dukes: Actually, Yes, it Has to Do with the Evaluation Method That
We\'ve Used. Opm Requires Us to Evaluate Candidates Not Only for Basic
Qualifications, but in Terms of The Rating Plan or the Ksas Found in the
Vacancy Announcement. They Have Given Us the Flexibility, Though, If
There Are Ten or less Candidates, That We Can Use an Abbreviated Method
To Determine Who Is Well Qualified. That Term Also Applies, Then, to The
‑‑ like We Discussed with The Park Service in Denver. A Candidate Has to
Be Well Qualified to Meet That Criteria In Order to Block Selection. If
We Are Doing a Full‑blown Ranking Panel or All of the Ksas And That Will
Be 11 or More Promotion Candidates, the Candidates We Refer to Are
Referred to as Best Qualified. It\'s Kind of an In‑house Jargon Thing.

T. Garrett: Time to Move to Our Final Segment of the Program And That\'s
Called \"What Can I Do Do Make Myself More Competitive?\" And from
Montana, Here\'s Diane Friez to Lead That Discussion. Diane?

D. Friez: Thanks, Tony. Well, So Far We\'ve Already Covered Why Managers
Do What They Do, What Options We Have For Filling Vacancies, and Also
What the Personnel Office Does With Your Application. Now What We Would
like to Do Is What You Can Do to Put Your Best Foot Forward in this
Process. In the Race for a New Job, There Are Some Steps You Can Do to
Make Yourself More Competitive. The First Thing That You Need to
Consider Is the Application Format That You\'re Going to Use. You Do
Have Some Options. The Sf‑171, Which I Think Most People Are Familiar
With, the Optional Form 612, Which Is Kind Of a Shorter Revised Version
of The Sf‑171, and Also a Resume. Regardless of Which of Those Options
You Choose and They Are All Accepted by Personnel Offices in the BLM,
What You Need to Do Is Make Sure That You Include All Information That
Is Relevant So That the Personnel Office and the Selecting Official Can
Find That Information. As Far as the Application Length, a Reasonable
Length for An Sf‑171 or an of 612 Is about 8 to Pen Pages That, and for
a Resume for a Federal Position, 3 To 5 Pages Is Considered Acceptable.
When Documenting Your Experience, Take Time to Note The Skills You Used
82 to Do the Work, What Your Responsibilities Are and How You Apply Your
Personal Judgment and Initiative In Performing That Work. You Should
Also Include the Grade, the Series and the Dates You Held the Positions
Because This Information Is Useful to The Personnel Office in Qualifying
You and Also to the Selecting Official in Reviewing Your Overall
Qualifications. You Should Also Focus on Experience That Is Directly
Related to the Position You\'re Applying For, and I Think It\'s Good
Advice That You Tailor Your Application for Each Specific Job You Apply
for Rather than Xeroxing One over and over Again And Although That Takes
Extra Time, It\'s to Your Benefit in The Long Run. As We\'ve Discussed
Earlier in The Previous Segments, the Ksas Are Very Important, and
They\'re Not Required, They Are Optional, But it Is to Your Benefit to
Complete Those. Some People Feel like There They May Be Duplicating or
Restating What Was in Their Application, But the Ksas Are Specifically
Related to the Job and They Do Help You to Bring out Some of Your
Experience and Specific Things You\'ve Worked on That Are Directly
Related. You Should Also Be Sure to Document Your Education, Outside
Activities, Awards and Training That You\'ve Received, Particularly
Those Things That Are Relevant to the Job You\'re Applying For. Probably
the Most Important Thing Can You Do Is to Have a Friend or Your Mentor
or a Co‑worker Review Your Application for a Critical Analysis of Your
‑‑ of the Document for Grammar, Sentence Structure and Overall
Continuity.

T. Garrett: Are There Some Common Errors or Mistakes People Make in
Putting Together Their Application, Diane and Is There Any Kind of
Checklist as They Prepare an Application That They Could Use to Avoid
Those Mistakes?

D. Friez: I Think Probably The Most Common Errors We See Are Forms That
They Fail to Submit or Typographical Errors, Things like That, and So I
Think The Review Would Help, and We Did in Preparing for this Broadcast,
We Talked about a Checklist, and We Don\'t Have One Currently, but We
Will Be Developing One and Posting it on The National Human Resources
Web Page Here in the near Future. One Other Option That I Didn\'t
Mention Earlier Is the Career Manager Website Which Is on the Department
of Interior Homepage. And That Does Give a Lot of Good Information about
Your Application and What You Need to Do to Submit and We\'ll Post That
Website Later.

T. Garrett: All Right. Thank You.

D. Friez: We\'ve Talked about Your Application and Some Tips For Making
You Look Best on Paper. What I Would like to Turn to Now Is to Discuss
Preparing You for The Interview. Sometimes During the Selection Process,
it Feels like You\'re Under a Microscope. People Not Only Look at Your
Application, They Contact Your References and They Put You What You May
Feel like Is a Grueling Process. It May Feel like It\'s Grueling, But
Here Some Tips to Help You Prepare So it Doesn\'t Seem Quite So Bad.
First of All, You Should Research Yourself, Spend Some Time with
Yourself. You\'ll Appear Confident and Assured During the Interview by
Knowing and Believing in Your Interests, Your Abilities, Your
Experiences, Your Values, Goals And Objectives. Also, You Should Know
and Understand Your Strengths and Weaknesses. Typically Questions Get
Asked And You Should Be Able to Articulate What Your Strengths And
Weaknesses Are. You Should Find out as Much as You Can about the
Position You Are Applying for and the Organization It\'s Located in and
There Are a Lot of Ways You Can Do This. Most Offices Now Have an
Internet Site. You Can Get Documents Such as Rmp or an Eis. You Can
Contact People That Work In That Office or People That You Know That Are
Familiar with That Office and Find out What The Programs and What That
Office Is Responsible For. You Should Dress for the Job You Want and Not
the Job That You Have. Probably the Best Thing to Do Is To Find out What
the Office Attire Is for That Particular Office. If You\'re Unsure,
It\'s Better to Look More Professional than Too Casual. You Should ‑‑
Always Arrive Early, but Not Too Early. Five to Ten Minutes Is Probably
Best. And Don\'t Be Surprised If You\'re Nervous. It\'s Very Natural to
Be Nervous And I Think Once You Get into The Interview, Take a Deep
Breath and Be Open and Honest With the Interviewer and Things Will Just
Go Fine. Make Sure You Don\'t Sell Yourself Short. Be Prepared to
Discuss Specific Examples of Things You\'ve Accomplished in Your Career
That You\'re Proud Of, That You\'ve Done Successfully. Sometimes It\'s
Hard for People To Do and That to Talk about Themselves, but During an
Interview Process, this Is One Time Where You Definitely Want To Take
Advantage and Do That. Project Enthusiasm to the Manager. Explain to
Them Why You\'re the Best Person for this Job and Why You Want to Work
in this Particular BLM Office and They\'ll Be Interested in What You
Have to Say. Last but Not Least, I Think It\'s Important to Have a
Friend Or, Again, Your Mentor Do a Practice Interview with You Before
You Go To the Actual Interview. That Way That Will Eliminate Some of the
Nervousness You Feel And You\'ll Have Some Answers That You\'ve Kind of
Thought out In Your Mind. In the End, with a Well Written Application, a
Positive Interview and Good References, You\'ll Have Given Yourself the
Best Chance to Be Successful in The Race for a New Job. Tony?

T. Garrett: All Right, Thanks Very Much, Diane. Let\'s Go to Our Studio
Audience. Looks like Marilyn Has Found Someone Who Is Dressed for
Success. Marilyn That

M. Johnson: Thank You, Tony. We Have a Question Today from Kim. Kim,
Your Question Is?

Hi, I\'m a Temporary Employee And Was Wondering Would I Object
Considered and Can I Apply for Other Federal or Government Jobs?

M. Johnson: Diane, Can You Help Us with That?

D. Friez: Yes, I Can. As a Temporary Employee, You Can Be Considered for
Other Jobs. You Do Have to Apply for Those Positions Specifically
Through Office of Personnel Management, Or If We Advertise under a
Delegated Examining Unit Authority That We Have. So There Are Times When
You Can Be Considered. Other Times for Temporary Positions We Advertise
Through The Local Job Service and Can You Apply for Those Jobs That Way.
Melissa, Did You Want to Add Anything?

M. Dukes: I Don\'t Think So. I Think You Pretty Much Covered It.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go Back to Billings, Montana, and One of The Members
of the Audience There Has a Question on this Subject of How I Can Make
Myself More Competitive.

L. Hamilton: Tony, June Would Like to Ask a Question on this Segment.
June?

Diane, You Mentioned That Any Type of Application Can Be Submitted, but
What Does Management Prefer? And, Also, What Other Documentation Should
We Submit With the Application, Like, for Example, Should We Submit
Letters of Recommendation? Would That Be Beneficial?

D. Friez: as Far as the Application Is Concerned, I Think it Varies from
Manager to Manager. I Know in the Personnel Office, At Least My
Experience Is, That We Prefer the Sf‑171 Because We Get the Specific
Information, The Dates and the Details That We Need to Qualify the
Applicant. I Think ‑‑ Some Managers Prefer The Resume Because They\'re
Shorter. You Know, More Concise. You Don\'t Have to Look Quite So Hard
for the Information. So I Think ‑‑ Either ‑‑ Whichever Format You Use,
as Long as You Include All the Pertinent Information, You\'ll Be Fine.
As Far as Additional Documentation, I Think It\'s Important to Limit
What You Submit. You Don\'t Want to Get an Application That\'s Too
Cumbersome. As I Said Earlier, Maybe Just The Things That Are
Specifically Relevant to the Job You\'re Applying For.

T. Garrett: All Right. June, Does That Answer Your Question?

Yes, Thank You.

T. Garrett: Don, from What Your Experience, What Do Managers Prefer in
Terms of the Appearance and Structure of the Application and Any
Supporting Materials an Applicant Offers.

D. Simpson: I Think for the Most Part It\'s an Organization Issue. A Lot
of People, the Higher You Go in the Organization, the More Issue Papers
Become One Page, The More Documents Become Short And Sweet and to the
Point. And I Think as a Person Moves up In BLM, It\'s Important to Be
Able to Portray Yourself in a Similar Fashion. So I Guess a Resume to Me
Has a Strength in That You Can Keep it Short and Sweet. Can You Put it
Together by Choosing Your Own Personal Way Of, You Know, the Look of the
Document, as Well as the Wording. But I Think If a 171 Is Done Nice,
Neat, Concise, It\'s Aimed At the Position, I Think You Can Be as
Successful. As Far as Extraneous Material, As You Get to Looking Through
Very Thick Files of Information, I\'ve Seen Somewhere People Put Papers
and All Kinds Of, I Guess Could You Call Them Nonrelated Type Documents.
It Gets Cumbersome and You Reach A Point Where You Don\'t Continue To
Look. I Think the Goal Should Be Attempt to Sell Yourself in a Very
Brief Format, Use the Ksas To Your Best Benefit, Use the Resume If You
Are Able and Can Do That, If You Have a 171, Make It Look Good, Print on
it a Good Printer, Keep it Concise and Keep it to the Point.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go Back to The Gallery Now and Marilyn.

M. Johnson: Thank You, Tony. We Have a Question from Ken. Ken, and Your
Question Is?

What Do You Do in a Situation Where You\'re Applying for a Job And You
Just Got a New Supervisor Who Doesn\'t Know You, Say You\'ve Had Him for
Two Weeks, and the Former Supervisor Supervised You for 18 Years. Do You
Put on Your Application The New Supervisor or the Old or Do You Try to
Explain It?

T. Garrett: Good Question.

M. Dukes: Basically What I Would Do If I Had a Supervisor As Short as
Two Weeks, I Would Probably Put My Old Supervisor\'s Name on There, but
this Could Even Go on for the First Three Months. They May Not Be Aware
of the Breadth of Your Experience and Work. What I Would Do Is Put My
Current Supervisor Name and at The Bottom an Asterisk Say \"Supervised
by Mary Smith May \'96 Through March \'99\" and the Phone Number of Your
Former Supervisor, and That Gives the Selecting Official the Option to
Contact Both. Most Selecting Officials I Know Do like to Talk to
Previous Supervisors as Well as Current Supervisors. So, You Know, It\'s
Your Advantage to Give Them That Information.

T. Garrett: Thanks, Melissa. Let\'s Go Back to the Phones Now. We Have a
Call from Tara in Idaho. Good Morning, Tara. Your Question?

Caller: I Have a Question. If You\'re a Full‑time Permanent Position and
Also in Your Office Is a ‑‑ a Temporary Position Is Available, Can You
Take a Leave Of Absence to Apply for That Temporary Position?

T. Garrett: Melissa, Can You Answer That?

M. Dukes: Sure, Actually with A Would Happen Is There Are a Couple of
Things That Could Happen. One, They Would Just Assign You To the
Position on a Temporary Basis Through a Detail, Probably. If It\'s a
Promotion, it Could Be Done Through a Temporary Promotion. That Way
You\'re Not Adversely Impacting Your Long‑term Career. What Could Happen
and this Happens a Lot When People Are Changing Jeer Graphic Areas, in
Reality, It\'s Not in Their Office but Maybe They Want to Move from
Boise to Denver, They Have to Take a Temporary Position in Denver, Which
Depending upon If They Have a Break in Service or Not, Could Impact
Their Benefits. There Is a Not to Exceed Date. If They Don\'t Find
Permanent Employment at the End of That, They Could Be Separated. So If
You\'re Offering to Ache Temporary Assignment, I Would Suggest That You
Make That Offer Conditional upon Being Able to Return to Your Job If
It\'s in Your Same Office When the Temporary Assignment Is Over. Better
for Your Long‑term Employment.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Take a Couple of Questions We Received By Fax. When a
Field Office Contracts With Opm to Advertise and They Provide a List of
the Select to The Selecting Official Where the Feedback Loop to Those
Applicants That Were Not Referred So They May Do Better The next Time?
That\'s a Question from Oregon.

M. Dukes: Basically We in Our Personnel Offices Typically Don\'t Know
All the Candidates Who Applied. O Opm Will Notify a Candidate of Their
Score, and They Are Eligible or Not, but I Don\'t Think Opm Actually
Notifies Anybody. What I Would like to Do, That\'s A Good Question,
Though, Is Maybe Talk That over to the Staffing Specialists in the
Bureau, Because We Do Have a Lot Of Those Kind of Jobs and We Don\'t
Notify People What Happened on a Job They Applied For. So I Think That
Might Be a Good Option to Add to Our Staffing Program.

T. Garrett: All Right. Very Quickly, Don\'s Colleagues In Wyoming, One
Asks this Question ‑‑ Last Time I Checked My BLM Personnel File it Did
Not Cane Tall All My Records. Who Is Responsible for Keeping That File
up to Date?

M. Dukes: Personnel Office. All of Your Records ‑‑ Typically When I Hear
That from Employees, It\'s Training Information or All The Applications
You Have Submitted. We Are Allowed to Only Retain Two Applications in
Your Personnel Folder, the Original Application You Were Hired from And
the Most Recent Application That You Submitted That You Were Selected
From. The Other Ones We Are Required To Remove and Destroy. Training
Records We Are No Longer Allowed to Keep in the Permanent Side of Your
Personnel Folder. And as of January We No Longer Keep Award Information
in Your Personnel Folder. So with We Send You Copies of Documents, You
Need to Be Keeping Those Because We Have a Real ‑‑ Are Going Towards a
Smaller Record, Long Run Is We Will Probably Be Moving to Electronic
Opfs in the next 10 Years.

T. Garrett: We Have Another Question from Our Audience Here In the
Studio. Let\'s Go to Marilyn.

M. Johnson: I Have a Question Here from Jean from Colorado. Jean?

Yes, I Was Just Wondering Is There Any Particular Preference On Whether
Some Sends in a Resume or an 171?

D. Friez: I Think We Talked About That a Little Already. Again, from the
Personnel Office Standpoint, I Speak from My Experience in Montana, Our
Preference Is Probably the 171. Just Because it Gives the More Detailed
Information. But, as We Described Earlier, Too, the Resume Is an
Effective Way to Sell Yourself? N‑a Short Concise Manner. So It\'s a
Personal Preference to The Individual Applying for the Job.

T. Garrett: All Right. Let\'s Check Back with Our Live Audience in
Billings, Montana.

L. Hamilton: it Appears to Us, Tony, the Panel Is Becoming Too Relaxed,
and So We\'ve Gotten Tracy to Ask Another Question Here. So, Tracy, Have
at Them.

Hi, Diane. I Just Wanted to ‑‑ You Earlier Mentioned Delegated Examining
Unit, and I Was Wondering If You Could Explain What That Is?

D. Friez: Sure. A Delegated Examining Unit Is an Authority That We
Receive from Opm in Which We Basically Do What Opm Generally Does and We
Go out and Recruit for Candidates Who Are ‑‑ Who Are Outside the Federal
Government, And So It\'s a System or a Process That We Use Locally
Rather than Contracting with Omm ‑‑ Opm to Do That Work for Us.

T. Garrett: Tracy, Does That Answer Your Question?

Yes, Thanks, Diane.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go Back to The Faxes. Here Is Another One from
Wyoming. If Merit Promotion Is Based on The Best Qualified Person, Why
‑‑ or How Are Managers Allow to Do Advertise Commuting Area Only When
Obviously Only One Person Would Qualify That, Small Communities and
Offices in Parentheses in That Appears to Be a Preselection. If Someone
Were to Apply Outside The Commuting Area, Would They Be Considered?
Melissa, Can You Help Us with That One?

M. Dukes: I Think There Are About Three Issues There. In the Merit
Promotion Plan, We Are Supposed to Issue Vacancy Announcements to Where
You Get a Group of Well Qualified, Diverse Candidates, and That Could Be
The Local Commuting Area. I Know for Our Jobs in Denver, Wide Range of
Well Qualified, Diverse Candidates. But You Have a Couple Other Issues
Here. One Has to Do with Money. We Are Not Always Allowed Because of
Budget, We Don\'t Have The Flexibility to Bring New Employees into Some
of Our Organizations. Their Budgets Are Tapped Out. They\'re
Reorganizing, New Work Has Come in the Office. So Obviously There May
Only Be a Candidate They Have to Pick from In‑house. They Don\'t
Necessarily Have a Preselect. I Would Assume Obviously That They
Wouldn\'t. But They Do Have to Use Competitive Procedures to Identify
Who in That Workforce Is the Best Qualified Candidate. The Other Thing
Is Can You Apply Any Merit Promotion Announcement That\'s Posted on U.s.
U.s.a. Jobs, Yes, You Can Apply. I‑hope That Answers That Fax.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go to Our Studio Once Again Here at the Training
Center and Marilyn Johnson.

M. Johnson: Thank You, Tony. We Have a Question from Bob. Bob, Your
Question Is?

Diane, If a Merit Promotion List Contains Local Candidates As Well as
Outside, out of the State Candidates, Should All the Phone Interviews ‑‑
All the Interviews Be Done by Phone?

D. Friez: Thanks for That Question. Actually, Again, It\'s up to the
Manager or Supervisor Conducting The Interviews. Either Way, You Can Do
Phone Interviews for All the Candidates or Can You Do Interviews Local
with the ‑‑ Personal with the People That Are There Locally and Some
over The Telephone. There\'s No Advantage, Really, One Way or the Other,
as Long as All the Employees ‑‑ All the Applicants Are Asked the Same
Questions by the Selecting Official.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go to Montana with Another Question From Billings.

L. Hamilton: Yeah, Bart Has a Question That He Would like to Ask the
Panel. Bart?

Yes, Panel, this Is a Quick One ‑‑ We Used to Have Lateral Transfers or
We Would ‑‑ Lateral Someone in from Another Agency. Do We Still Do That
Kind of Action to Fill Jobs?

T. Garrett: Melissa, What About That?

M. Dukes: We Still Do That With Some of Our Jobs. You Cannot ‑‑
Noncompetitively Reassign Anyone from Within the Government, Even a
Reinstatement Eligible, to the Same Grade They Previously Held. We Do Do
That in the Bureau. It\'s One of Many Ways Management Uses to Fill
Vacancies. So We Still Do.

T. Garrett: Let\'s See If We Can Quickly Answer Some of These Faxes That
Have Come In. From California ‑‑ Within the 318 Staff Assistant Series
Why Aren\'t There More Ladder Positions? Staff Assistants Need Growth
Opportunities. Sounds like a Good Point.

M. Dukes: Basically Positions Are Classified on the Nature of The Duties
That You\'re Performing. Are They Complex, Impactful, What Knowledge
Does it Take to Do Those Jobs? At Some Level, They Top Out. And for
Secretaries, Yes, They Do Top out at Lower Grades than Possibly Our Core
Mission Work. For Individuals Who Are in the Clerical Field,
Particularly Staff Assistant, If You\'re Interested in Career Growth,
Sometimes You\'re Going to Have To Look at Different Career
Opportunities. Those Could Be in Other Administrative Areas, Personnel,
Budget, Procurement, Space, Supply. A Wide Range of Other Administrative
Fields Can You Move into That Build on What You Learned Your Clerical
Field. Or You Could Go into Core Mission Work, Range Tech, Rec.
Assistant, Something like That. But You\'re Going to Be Topped Out as a
Secretary Maybe at Some Lower Grades than Other Career Opportunities.

T. Garrett: Thank You. Just Another a for Our Downlink Coordinators We
Are Going to Run A Little over Our Scheduled Closing Time to Accommodate
the Interest We\'ve Had from the Audience Here in the Studio and At Our
Sites Around the BLM. So We\'ll Be Working Hard to Answer All the
Questions That Have Been Raised and Those That We Don\'t Get to During
the Program We\'ll Be Posting Answers For Those and We\'ll Have That
Website up on the Screen in Just A Little While. Right Now Let\'s Go to
the Phones And Cherry in Utah.

I\'m a Says Null, and I Was Wondering, How Do They Hire off The Clerical
Tests? And Do You Choose the Highest Score? Is That All You Look At? And
Why Is it So Difficult to Find a Location and Time to Take The Test? We
Live in a Remote Area.

T. Garrett: Melissa?

M. Dukes: Ok. First Off, When We\'re Hiring From Opm, the Scores in
Reality Do Matter. We Can Only Consider the Top Three Candidates, Those
Are the Ones Who Scored it the Highest. So We Can\'t Look Any Lower than
The Top Three. And If the Top One Is a Veteran, We Can\'t Look Lower
than the Top One. Second Thing Is That Opm Only Opens up the Clerical
Test Once Or Twice a Year, and They Offer ‑‑ in Denver They Offer it
Once A Year. I Understand Salt Lake It\'s a Different Time. That They
Offer It, but Typically It\'s Just Open Once a Year. They Don\'t Very
Often Open it in Remote Sites Unless We Have a Specific Job and They
Have No Candidates, and Then They Will Open the Test. They Have a Large
Standing Register. Consequently That Is Not an Issue for Them. What You
Need to Do and since You\'re in Utah, it Would Be the Opm Office in
Denver, You Need To Call Them and Find out the Next Time They\'re Going
to Be Offering the Clerical Test. The Most Convenient Office or Location
for You. And If You Can Leave Your Phone Number with Somebody Here, I
Can Call You from My Office in Denver and Give You That Phone Number. I
Just Don\'t Have it Right Now.

T. Garrett: Thank You. Let\'s Go to Another Fax. This Is from the
Pinedale Field Office in Wyoming ‑‑ When We Know an Employee Is Leaving
for Example, Already Have Their Travel Papers for Another BLM Job, Why
must We Wait until They\'re Physically Gone to Advertise the Position?
The Waiting Period, Period, Often Several Months, Is an Extreme Hardship
on the Staff Left to Pick up Excess Workload. Sounds like a Good
Question.

D. Friez: Actually, I Don\'t Know of a Requirement That Says We Have to
Wait until the Person Leaves the Job Before We Can ‑‑ Before We Can Go
Ahead and Recruit. Once off Commitment You Know Somebody Is Leaving, the
Personnel Office Can Proceed to Recruit for That Vacancy. So Maybe
There\'s Some Issues in That Office or with a Particular Situation That
I\'m Not Aware Of, But I Don\'t Know of a Reason Why You Can\'t Go Ahead
and Recruit For the Position.

T. Garrett: Thank You. If a Person Would like to Change From Their
Career to a Personal Career, How May They Do This? That Sounds like a
Question Having to Do with How Can They Change Within the Series
They\'re Involved In, Maybe Make a Major Change in Their Career Track.
Don, Any Thoughts on That One?

D. Simpson: If the Question Was to Personnel, I\'ll Defer That to the
Personnel Folks. But I Think One of the Things That All Employees
Probably Ought to Do Is Take Some Ownership in That Career, and There\'s
Times When People Want To Change. I Think We All Go Through Three, Five,
Seven Years, Everybody Gets the Itch. They Want to Move Up, They Want To
Change. I Think One of the Most Successful Ways to Deal with That Is to
Make Sure You Work With Your Supervisor So They Understand Your Career
Needs. Take a Look at Whatever Development Opportunities You Need to Get
to That Point. So If You Really Do Want to Make A Shift, I\'ve Done That
Several Times, I at One Point Went from Forester to Realty Specialist.
What I Did Personally Recognize Is I Had to Get into the Entry Level
Area of the Realty Series And Start to Learn That Process And Work My
Way Up. I Started on Details, and as a ‑‑ Extra Work Was Sitting on the
Realty Specialists Desk, I Asked If I Couldn\'t Help out and So I
Started Learning it That Way. I Would Suggest You Take a Look At Where
You\'re Heading. If There\'s Some Opportunities For Development in That
Area, Look at Some Details, Look at Maybe Becoming a Part of a Process
That ‑‑ Where They Need Some Assistance from Someone Else in That ‑‑
That Will Give You the Leg Up. As Far as the Technical Way to Do That
Shift, I Guess I Would Defer to the Personnel Folks.

T. Garrett: Sounds like a Thorough Answer from Don. Anything to Add?
Let\'s Go to One More Question And this Is from the ‑‑ One of The Field
Offices in Oregon. How Is Affirmative Action Applied in the Vacancy
Announcement? Melissa?

M. Dukes: Basically There Is An Absolute Obligation, and as I Said in
Merit Principles We Have An Absolute Requirement to Have A Workforce
That Reflects the Diversity of the Population of This Country. The Way
We Integrate That into The Staffing Side of the House Is as We\'re
Looking at Where Do We Want to Advertise, Where Candidates Are
Available, We Advertise Jobs That Will Hopefully Bring Us a Group of
Well Qualified, Diverse Candidates to Refer to the Selecting Official.
Once it Goes to the Selecting Official, That Is a Nonissue. You Do Not
Consider Any of Those Categories in Making Your Selection. You\'re Not
Allowed To. But We Do Want to Make Sure Area Of Considerations Are Broad
Enough to Actually Bring Candidates In. That\'s Partly Why We Use So
Many Different Kinds of Recruiting Methodologies to Fill Vacancies. The
Other Answer Is, No, We Don\'t Have Quota Systems in the Government.
That Is Against the Law.

T. Garrett: We\'re Nearing the End of Our Telecast, So I Would Like to
Take a Moment First to Thank Larry Hamilton and Everyone from the
Montana State Office for Their Participation Today. Thanks, Montana.
Hope the Rain Let\'s Up. And We Appreciate All Your Input.

L. Hamilton: Tony, Could You Do Us a Favor?

T. Garrett: I\'ll Try.

L. Hamilton: Could You Have Diane Bring Back Some of That Warm Arizona
Sunshine for Us?

T. Garrett: It\'s on its Way.

L. Hamilton: Thank You. Thanks for Letting Us Participate This Morning.
It Was Very Informative.

T. Garrett: Thank You, Larry, You and Your Folks Add Lot To the Program.
We Appreciate It. Let\'s Take a Moment Now for Closing Comments from Our
Panel And Begin with You, Melissa.

M. Dukes: Thank You, Tony. Last Thing I Would Really like To Remind
People Is to Ask Questions. Staffing Is Actually More Complicated, I
Think, than Most People Realize on the Surface. Ask Your Staffing
Specialist, Talk to Your Supervisor, Talk to The Selecting Official. The
More Information You Seek, The More ‑‑ the Better I Think You\'ll Be at
Becoming Competitive.

T. Garrett: Don, Final Comments?

D. Simpson: I Guess What I Would Suggest Just Listening to The
Discussion I Learned Quite a Bit from the Two Panelists Here, So I Thank
You for the Insight, But One Thing I Guess I Would Pass along and I\'m
Trying to Do It Now, I\'m Not Exactly a Computer Whiz, but I\'m Trying
to Do It, Is Take a Look at Where You Want to Be in Three Years, Five
Years, Ten Years. Work with Your Supervisor. And on Your Machine, If You
Can Put an Electronic Resume, Keep Your Ksas, Handy, Each Time You Put
in for a Job, Polish Those Things up a Little Bit, Make Yourself Look a
Little Better, If You\'re Not Going to Sell Yourself, Nobody Else Will.
So I Would Suggest Just Taking a Look at Those Ksas, Find a Good Friend,
Find Somebody That Will Be Critical of You in a Positive Way and Have
Them Help You Through, Take a Look at Those Ksas, Take a Look at That
Resume And I Think You Would Be Surprise The. I Know Every Time I Look
at the Last One I Think I ‑‑ I Sent in I\'m Appalled at What I Sent in
And I Clean it Up. Hope in 20 or 30 Years, I Will Get a Good One. I
Think It\'s an Evolution Process and If Can You Keep on It Your Machine
and Keep Working On it You Will Find Yourself to Be Very Successful.

T. Garrett: Thank You, Don. Diane, Any Closing Comments for The
Audience?

D. Friez: I Think What We\'ve Heard Today Is There\'s No Exact Science
to the Business of Staffing, and as Melissa Said, I Think It\'s
Important to Ask Questions of Your Personnelist, Your Manager, Even
Contact Melissa in Denver or Another Personnel Office If You Don\'t Feel
like You\'re Getting the Help You Need. So We\'re All There, We\'re All
in This Together and We\'re Here to Make it Work for You.

T. Garrett: Marilyn, Any Final Thoughts from Your Perspective in

M. Johnson: We Certainly Enjoyed Your Visit with Us Here At NTC, and We
Enjoyed the Lively Interaction, and in Addition We Had a Chance to Have
Fun. That\'s Always Great. Thanks, Tony.

T. Garrett: Thank You. We Want to Show You Some Websites Now Where Can
You Find More Information about What We\'ve Covered in Today\'s Program.
Opm\'s Homepage Has a Wealth of Information on All Aspects of Federal
Service. And Doi Site We Have Listed Has Excellent Information on
Personal Assessment Tools and Some Hints for Job Interviews. Before We
Leave I Would like to Mention Our next Event Here on The BLM Satellite
Network. NTC Will Be Broadcasting an Irm Forum on May 13th Which Will
Focus on the New Fts‑2001 Telecommunication Systems and The Many Issues
in Transitioning To That New Contract. I Want to Remind All Downlink
Coordinators to Complete the Standard Broadcast Viewer Roster And Fax it
to the NTC Immediately Following the Show Or Can You Use the Automated
Viewer Reporting System on the Homepage at www.ntc.blm.gov/satnet. All
of You Will Be Receiving an E‑mail Today Asking You to Complete an
Evaluation of Today\'s Show and We Would Appreciate You Taking the Time
To Fill it out and Send it Back To Us. On Behalf of All of Us Here at
The National Training Center, I Would like to Thank Our Panelists for
Their Presentations Today. It\'s Great to Work with All of You. Again,
Thanks to Larry Hamilton And Everyone in Billings, Montana, Who Joined
Us Electronically and Helped Us So Much with the Program, As Well as
Warren Johnson, Who Shared His Thoughts at the Beginning of the Program.
Thank You, Warren. We Also Would like to Thank the Studio Audience Here
at NTC for Their Participation and All of You Who Called and Faxed in
Your Questions. We Will Posting the Answers to Any Questions We Didn\'t
Have Time to Get To. We Hope Today\'s Program Has Given Abetter
Understanding of Some of the Policies and Practices That Govern
Personnel And Staffing Matters and Affect All of Us in BLM. We Hope Also
this Information Will Be Useful to You in Identifying and Taking
Advantage Of Career Development Opportunities That May Come Your Way
During Your Time with Our Agency. Thanks Again for Watching, and So Long
from Phoenix!

Announcer: to Help Your Office Participate in Future Telecasts, See the
BLM Satellite Downlink Guide. And Visit the NTC Homepage on The World
Wide Web. NTC\'s Internet Assess Is www.ntc.blm.gov. Transcripts of this
Program and Other NTC Broadcasts Are Available on the Homepage. For More
Information on Upcoming Distance Learning Events, as Well as Traditional
Courses, Call the Training Center at 602‑906‑5500 or Visit the Homepage.
This Broadcast Has Been a Production of the BLM National Training
Center.