Q: Can you please introduce yourself and tell us a little about
yourself.

**Synethia Pettaway:** Okay. I am Synethia Electa \[ph?\] Perkins
Pettaway and I am the former first African-American female chair of the
Dallas County Board of Voter Registration Office. I uh.. was appointed
to that office back in 1999 by democratic governor Don Seigelman \[ph?\]
who is our former governor now for the state of Alamaba. And I still
hold that position as a member of the board but I am no longer the
chair.

Q: Let me take us back to 1965, where were you?

**Synethia Pettaway:** In 1965, I was born January the fifteenth 1965 in
Good Samaritan Hospital. And Good Samaritan Hospital is the hospital
where most of the African-Americans were serviced back during that time
in 1965, where all blacks were being serviced there then. That was the
only black hospital for them to receive treatment.

Q: What was the climate in those days?

**Synethia Pettaway:** I was a baby, so the climate back in those days,
the only thing that I can tell you is only what I have been told. And I
was named after a nun at the hospital. Her name was Sister Electa
\[ph?\] and my middle name is Electa \[ph?\] and that is from Sister
Electa and the name means 'Chosen One'. My sister who is Remeija
\[ph?\], she was named after another nun who was Sister Remeija.

Q: There's a famous photograph of you and Dr. Martin Luther King. Can
you give us the circumstances about that picture?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Yes, uhm.. I was told by my mother who was an
employee at Good Samaritan Hospital. She was an LPN uh.. which means a
License Practical Nurse. She was there for- she had me there, I was
being discharged uh.. from the hospital to go home and uhm.. Dr. King
was there for a check-up and my understanding is that they introduced my
mother to him so that he could meet me because my birth date was the
same as his. So, I-I was told that when he met me he said that I would
be a staunch civil righter.. Yeah.

Q: Were your parents activists in those days?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Yes, they both were activists. My mother and my
father. Uh.. my mother, who's Etta Smith Perkins uhm.. who was a nurse
then. She worked at Good Samaritan in the emergency room and she also
marched during that time. And uhm.. my father, who was an educator, he
was a instructor at R. B. Hudson High School. So he was active in the
teacher's march back during that time.

Q: Why are voting rights important?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Voting rights are important to me, number one
because during that particular time there was such a sacrifice for
people to receive the right to vote and also, voting governs every
aspect of our lives. So I feel that voting is very important uh.. to
everyone, not just to African-Americans but to everyone.

Q: How are we doing voting rights-wise? Did all of the marches and all
of the struggles of all those people make a difference here in Selma?

**Synethia Pettaway:** It has made a difference but it has not made the
difference that it should have made. We have done more for people across
this nation than we actually have done for ourselves. But uhm.. with us
electing an African-American mayor who is a God-fearing mayor who tries
to do things right for everyone uh.. regardless to what he believes but
what is best for everyone in this city. He has done that and that is one
of the milestones that I see that we have made in Dallas county. We do
have a lot of people in Dallas county who will try to divide uh.. the
black community and not see the good things that are being done and try
to make improvements in the city to take us back to 1965. So those are
some things that we still have to overcome.

Q: What about economics? Did that improve the economy and the
development of less income being class struggle as well as race
struggle?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Well, yes because uh.. in some aspects, I look at
it like this, in Selma we have- we do have some still existing
businesses that were here back in 1965 that were African-American owned
businesses. We do still have some existing today. But back during that
time we did have some grocery stores, small grocery markets that were on
the corner s- corner stores. They don't exist today. Uh.. and I think
integration hurt those businesses. But, at the same time, in stores in
Selma, we do have African-American managers of stores. We do have uh..
some district owners, different district representatives that come in
and move into Selma. Uh.. we do have some African-American leaders in
our- our Postmaster is an African-American, uh.. the Social Secur-
Security Administrator here, he is an- also an African-American. Uh.. so
we have made strides in uh.. leadership in the different areas but we
still have a long ways to go. Uh.. in the Dallas County Courthouse we do
not have an African-American tax assessor, tax collector, probate judge.
Our County Commission is not majority African-American but we do have
some African-American positions in the Dallas County Courthouse.

Q: Where would we find the struggle going on in Selma today? Who's still
kind of carrying the torch and what are the issues they're after?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Well the torch today, I feel, is.. a political..
torch. There is a.. struggle going on today to try to undermine the
African-American vote. You know, they want the-the uh.. Caucasians or
should I say maybe the ones who would not like to be under a
African-American leader, they would like to choose who the
African-American leader will be in Selma. Because it is evident by the
uh.. percentage of black registered voters that we- we will have an
African-American mayor.. in Selma. But there is a fight too for the
Caucasians to choose who that African-American mayor will be. It's not
that our mayor's not doing a good job but it is that he cannot be bought
and he cannot be controlled by any political uh.. affiliation or a
particular person.

Q: Recently I was reading some of the descriptions that the activists of
the 60's. They were called beatniks and mentally ill and all kinds of
dispersions. Has that divide continued?

**Synethia Pettaway:** When you find an African-American uh.. I'm gonna
use the term right now African-American male and when I say that I speak
in terms of our mayor. Someone who is courageous. Someone who is
outspoken. Someone who uh.. stands for what is right. Someone who's not
a coward. You will find them calling him uh.. uh.. he micromanage
things. Is- that's one of the terms that they use. They call him a
chief.. uh.. they called him uh.. a dictator and that is not what it is.
He is the type person who just wants to know what is going on, he's
intelligent and he's going to ask que- ask questions and he's going to
read. He's going to be well-informed. And he's not intimidated by
anyone.

Q: Sounds like good characteristics for any activist. How did you come,
personally, to accept the challenge and participate in the struggle
yourself?

**Synethia Pettaway:** My family has always been involved in the Civil
Rights Movement from back in the 60's. Uhm.. and with my father, being
he's a mild person but he is very aggressive in his own uh.. meek way.
My mother, on the other hand, she's very aggressive, very assertive and
she moves about very swiftly in getting things done. Uh.. both of them
have been very active in the Civil Rights Movement and also in
registering people to vote. So as a child growing up, I always attended
mass meetings uh.. my sister started a choir in Selma back in the 70's
which was called the Selma Interdenominational Choir. I took a interest
in voting rights because we were always the choir who had to sing for
every mass meeting. I was one of the youngest persons in that particular
choir so I was one of the younger ones to attend all of the mass
meetings in Selma. I also attended uh.. all of the marches because my
parents, wherever they went, I had to go because my brother and my
sister who were older, they were off in college. So I always stayed with
my parents. I never really had a uh.. long term babysitter or a nanny as
they say. So I always had to go with them and being involved in those
activities. I learned from being around my parents and with them being
involved in registering people to vote, that is something that I just-
it's in me. And I love to do it. So when I turned 18, I started
registering people to vote. I became a deputy registrar and in becoming
a deputy registrar, I took the opportunity to go around to the high
schools in Selma and Dallas County to register other high school
students to vote. And I'm still doing that today.

Q: You also received a personal challenge at the funeral I remember you
were describing earlier. Can you tell us those circumstances?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Yes. The uhm.. the first African-American female
on the Board of Registrars was one of the Courageous Eight, who is Mrs.
Marie Foster. And Mrs. Marie Foster is another person who actually- I
would call her my mentor. And I say that because she was a person who
also registered people to vote and she had what she called the Martin
Luther King Center uh.. the Coretta \[ph?\] uh.. Scott King Educational
Center in her yard at her home where she registered people to vote and
she taught them how to read and write there. And Mrs. Foster encouraged
me and my mother to continue to register people to vote. She was a light
within our city for me to follow and at her.. funeral, her last rites, I
was challenged by my brother, the mayor of Selma, other civil rights
leaders, to carry the torch on. That if she could handle who is now the
chair of the Dallas County Board of Registrars, Ed Vansill \[ph?\], in
his young days in her old days that I could surely handle him in my
young days in his old days.

Q: I guess I have a hint of the struggle between you two.

**Synethia Pettaway:** The struggle continues in my office right now.
Uh.. before I became the chair, back in 1999, of the Dallas County Board
of Registrars, Mr. Vansill \[ph?\] was the previous chair and he was
appointed by the Republican governor. He, during that particular time, I
was told, was uh.. he stated that he retired but in the position that we
hold, it is an appointed position. So he was appointed then by the
Republican governor. When that Republican governor lost to the Democrat
governor, I was appointed chair of the Dallas County Board of
Registrars. Uh.. back this past year, the former governor Seigelman
\[ph?\] was uh.. replaced by a governor uhm.. he is now our governor.

\<crew talk\>

**Synethia Pettaway:** He is our governor uh.. Reilly \[ph?\] now. So
Governor Bob Reilly \[ph?\] is now our governor and he went back and
re-appointed uhm.. with the pressure of the Republican local party, he
appointed Ed Vansill \[ph?\]. And Ed Vansill \[ph?\] is now the chair of
the Dallas County Board of Registrars and I was appointed by the
Commissioner of Agriculture, who is the State Commissioner of
Agriculture.. and Industry.

Q: When you talk to youngsters today, how do you put the challenge to
them?

**Synethia Pettaway:** The challenge to them is that voting is very
important. First of all, if you don't understand the history of voting,
it's important because so many people uh.. they were.. bruised.. some
were even killed for that right to vote. So if you don't understand
that, you need to first try to find out what happened back then and
understand that part of our history. Uh.. secondly, it is so important
because of the little, small things that you think that are not
important uh.. in your life, such as childbirth, but you had to be born.
How someone is buried, you have to die. Those things are very important.
How you live and things that they can relate to, I always use the term
as the Seatbelt Law, driver's license, those are the little things that
you might think that's important but the people that you vote for, they
make those rules. They determine how that is uhm.. enacted within your
life and how it affects this society. So you need to vote because if
they're not voting the way that you want them to vote, you need to vote
for someone else who will have your best interests at heart.

Q: How are you doing today? Are they taking up the challenge?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Our youth.. well our youth are apathetic to a
standpoint of not actually taking the challenge and that goes back to
people wanting to choose who the black is that will represent the black
community. Uh.. if you would listen to what you hear from people who are
not active in the black community, who don't stand up for the
disadvantaged or the disenfranchised then you will uh.. have a tendency
to believe what the white media wants you to hear and wants you to
receive. So therefore, the challenge to African-Americans is to take
that bold step, which is a sacrifice. It's something you're not gonna
get paid to do. You might even lose your job in doing it but it is a
step that you have to take because you have to speak out for what is
right and what uh.. the white media don't want the word to get out. You
know, they want to choose who lead us and we cannot allow that to
happen. We have to stand up for what we know is right, for what we feel
is in our best interest. Education for instance, there is a- a thing in
Selma right now that is called Selma Works. This is a program to
educate.. Selma.. residents. Get them educated and get them in the
workforce. They don't understand economics deals with jobs. Economics
deals with business. So when you say economics to a black person,
sometimes they might not understand what you're talking about because a
lot of our blacks have limited education. So what you have to look at-
you have to really break it down so that they can understand it. All of
this goes hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. So, you
have to just relate it to them so they can understand. And Selma Works
is a program where they really don't understand the benefits that they
can receive from Selma Works. They feel because they have been working
for fifteen and twenty years in a office that they have the
qualifications to move on to another job. But what Selma Works does is
Selma Works wants to know, "Hey, can you actually do this job-
efficient- are you very efficient or effective in carrying out your
position that you want? Are you going to be uh.. very proficient in
doing what it is? Are you gonna attem- are you gonna go to work every
day? Are you gonna be there when you are supposed to be there? Are you
gonna go beyond the call of duty on that particular job." And that's
what they want to know before they actually place you in a position now.
Because if not, you'll be on a temporary job and they'll just put you
back on another job temporarily. They're not looking at placing people
there for a long.. time span anymore because it saves them money for you
to be there temporarily because they don't have to offer you any
benefits.

Q: So you still see a difference between the economic opportunities for
black versus white?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Yes, I see that. Uhm.. and I say I see that
because there are people who are working in- I have to talk about the
area in which I work because that is at the courthouse. There are some
uhm.. African-Americans who have been at the Dallas County Courthouse
for a number of years and uh.. I will use a term in the Tax Assessor's
office. There's a young lady there, she's been there for years and she..
is not uh.. in the area as- as far as I can understand from her, she's
not making what she should be making in that particular office and she's
been there for a long term. And there is another person who is a high
school student who works in the Dallas County Courthouse who does not
have uh.. a college degree, who's not been there uhm.. as many years as
this particular person, the African-American person, but she's making
the same amount of money. So I see that there is a problem there. There
is a problem.

Q: What do you think the emotions will be on Sunday when you cross the
bridge with all those people that are coming here to recognize the
significance of Selma?

**Synethia Pettaway:** They look at Selma and the bridge and I feel the
same way. I look at the Edmund Pettis \[ph?\] bridge as being holy
ground. It's a sacred place and I say it's a sacred be- it's sacred
place because so many people shedded blood. So many people uh..
sacrificed their livelihood on that bridge. Uh.. people lost their
lives, people lost their jobs, just so that we could march across that
bridge to get to Montgomery to have the right to vote. So it's sacred.

Q: I guess you're going to have a lot of outsiders. I know that some
people say that actually was the problem, back in the 60's, that there
were a lot of outside agitators that came in. What is your impression of
that?

**Synethia Pettaway:** You know they can call people agitators. I think
they're outsiders with good sense because they can see something that a
lot of times we have been fooled with. I've never been a token, my
family has never been a token. We have always stood up for what was
right and what we believed in. We're not easy to be persuaded. So
therefore, uhm.. when we see things going on wrong, we're not afraid to
tell it, we're not afraid to be without because we know that our help
and our provider is the Lord. So we might have to go through some hard
times and I must say even men my young age uh.. I've been married
fifteen years but I have seen hard times in my marriage because of my
husband. My husband who is Attorney Collins Pettaway Junior who works at
the law firm Chestnut, Sanders, Sanders, Pettaway and Campbell and he
has seen a hard time because of him being affiliated with that law firm
and the things that we have believed in that Caucasians felt that we
should not stand up for. And we don't mind letting the black community
know what is going on. So I consider myself and my family as a
sacrificial lamb for the citizens of Selma.

Q: The church seems to have been very important, not only then, but
equally now. Tell us a little about the role of the church in the
struggle.

**Synethia Pettaway:** The church, in the struggle, was the place for
blacks to receive information. It was the house of mass meetings. That
is the place where uh.. blacks could gather together, feel safe. It was
like a safe haven there. Uh.. they met there during the 60's and we meet
in churches today to have public forums. Uh.. to be informed of what is
going on. To have uh.. open discussions on different issues. That is one
place where we know the white man will not come in and control what is
going on there. They cannot dictate what can and should be said in the
African-American churches.

Q: I know as part of the Jubilee celebration is a mass meeting at the
tabernacle. Will both blacks & whites be there?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Usually in Selma- and this is something to me
that shows that, "Yes, the Civil Rights Movement did help the
African-American race in Selma but it did not bridge a gap to bring the
blacks and the whites together." You will find at that mass meeting, you
will find African-Americans- citizens, African-American citizens of
Selma there. You will find more outside people uh.. there than you
probably will Selma citizens. You will also find uhm.. more outside
Caucasians there than you will Selma citizens there.

Q: Joanne showed us there are two entrances to the tabernacle, one where
whites would enter and one where blacks would enter. That's no longer an
issue. Are there any other things that strike you as revealing the
struggle itself?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Well, uh.. \<laugh\> in my office, I have to go
back to my office again uh.. there are some things in my office, to me,
that is evident that the struggle still continues. Uhm.. there is a big
issue of- with me being appointed back to the Board of Registrars and
with Mr. Vansill \[ph?\] being appointed as the chair of the Board of
Registrars. And I feel that, and I have been told by members of the
appointing board that I was not wanted back on the Board of Registrars
by the white citizens and the Republicans uh.. of Selma. And Mr. Vansill
\[ph?\] is a die-hard Republican and he has uh.. no shame in letting you
know that. I am one who believes in standing up for what's right and I
would tell when I see something wrong in my office. If I see you running
a voter's list to give to one candidate and you will not give a voter's
list to all of the candidates, I have a problem with that. I have a
problem with that.

Q: Some of the manipulations that we're most suspicious of might
actually be going on?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Oh yes. Oh yes. And I don't have a problem with
telling that uh.. because I am not afraid. I'm not afraid. I'm not
working in the Dallas County Board of Registrars for the money. Uh.. the
job is a sacrifice, it's a community service. You don't get paid
according to the hours that you work and you don't get paid according to
all of the days you work because you only have a hundred and twenty days
during the year that you can work. So if you go over those hundred and
twenty days, you have to get special permission from either the
legislature or from the County Commission to work over those days or you
might not get paid.

Q: We're in an election year, will you still stuff ballot boxes? Are
there still attempts to manipulate the vote?

**Synethia Pettaway:** There are attempts to manipulate the vote and let
me just tell you one thing that I went through during the mayor's
election last term. Last mayor's election uhm.. there was a- a ploy to
try to say that I was not a citizen or a residence living inside of the
city limits of Selma. And during that particular time they were trying
to get me taken off of the Dallas County Board of Registrars. And to get
me removed, they were trying to say that I was not a legal residence of
the city of Selma. My residency was in the city of Selma and still is
today. Uh.. so that is something that they focused on last year to try
to get our focus off of what needed to be focused on and the job needed
to be done. There was also a tactic to try to intimidate
African-American voters who lived in the housing complex, in public
housing in Selma. What they did was before I became uh.. a member of the
board, they used to issue social security numbers on the voters list and
I made that known to the state office because social security numbers
are confidential and they are only on the voter's application for
recordkeeping purposes only. So therefore, they should not be passed out
of our office. Those are confidential numbers that should be kept
confidential within our office. So that is something that I stopped and
I brought that to the attention of the state so that we can make sure
that people are not intimidated by that because they were using the
social security numbers to go and track people down in the housing
complex and different places to say that they were not legally a
residence of that particular address where they were registered to vote.

Q: The title of the movie we're working on is Never Lose Sight of
Freedom. Could you speak to that a bit? You obviously have a good bead
on what's it going to take. How are we doing at keeping the memory alive
and moving forward?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Never losing sight of freedom is: we must always
vote our conviction. And when I say vote our conviction that means that
we need to ask candidates what is it that they believe? We need to
monitor who's supporting the candidates for different reasons. We need
to understand what the issues are. We need to understand uhm.. what is
it that our community needs. How is it that our community receive what
is it that we need for our community. And we need to vote for the person
who has our interests at heart. And when I say our interests, I mean the
African-American interests not just when it comes to uh.. giving money
but I'm talking about to make our lifestyle a better place. Who's going
to get out on the streets and help us fight for some of those things
that we don't have the courage to fight for? And I feel that that's what
I- I do on my job daily. I'm fighting for the things that- say Senator
Sanders might be fighting for one thing in Montgomery, I'm fighting for
another thing in my office because he doesn't have time to come over to
my office and help other people earn that right to vote when I know that
they're being disenfranchised. That is what I'm there to do and when I
need his help I will go to him for those issues that I need his help
with. But things that I can fight for, I think I need to fight for them
in my office. And then I- I think it is upon me to make sure that the
public is aware of what's goin' on. And we also need to look at our uh..
public officials who- that are African-Americans but they don't vote in
the best interest of African-Americans. We need to look at that and we
need to change that. We should not just vote for a person anymore just
because they are black. That's not what we should do now. We should vote
for a African-American person who has an African-American best interests
at heart, who has Caucasian best interests at heart, the poor's best
interest at heart and who's going to do what is right for Selma. For
Selma.. as a whole.

Q: A lot of people suggest that politics is the key without knowing the
issues. What are the issues that are coming up in this election?

**Synethia Pettaway:** The issues coming up in this election will be
uh.. if you're talking about our municipal mayor's election, the issue
to me coming up will be.. economically. Now, you have candidates getting
in the race who say they can do this and they can do that for Selma, but
none of them have the relationship established with the economic base
who will help bring jobs, who will help bring better education to the
city of Selma. Our present mayor, he has connections and he has a
working relationship already established with our governor, with our
state senator, with our house of representatives, with other
representatives who represent the state of Alabama, with the League of
Municipalities. He also has a working relationship with our congressman
of the sel- seventh congressional district who is Congressman Archer
\[ph?\] Davis, he works out of Washington. Our mayor is on the
transition team for that. Our mayor is also- for him to be a first-time
mayor, it is very rare that you will find him being an officer in the
League of Municipalities and he is an officer with the African-American
Mayor League of Municipalities. So therefore it is uhm.. a challenge to
us as citizens to look at all of that and say, "Okay, this mayor needs
the opportunity- continue- to continue to work on what he started
because he has made strives that have not been gained in thirty-six
years. So we need to continue to allow him that opportunity to do that."
He's already told us when he first ran for mayor, in his last campaign,
that he could not clean up the mess that was made thirty-six years ago
in one term. He needed a second term so we need to give him that chance.
But we also need to look at the ones that are trying to divide our
community, who has no relationship with our congressman, with our
senator, nor with the governor of our state. And with our governor being
a Republican governor, our mayor has bridged the gap there. They have a
relationship where we are able to receive funding from our governor's
office, from our uhm.. from the state, uhm.. of A-DECA \[ph?\] office,
from uh.. the uh.. national- when you look at our congressman, Archer
\[ph?\] Davis has been bringing in grant money to fund different
educational uh.. things that will educate our people to help us make
Selma better economical place. I mean economics here is important and if
you have that gap bridged and that's a bridge we can go across, we need
to continue to march that direction and not go back. And that means we
need to change some people on our City Council.. We need to change that.

Q: I noticed you were very inclusive earlier when you said the vote is
essential for African-Americans but for essentially for all of us. What
is your view on the struggle being for all Americans, everyone needs to
have a chance to participate in the right to vote.

**Synethia Pettaway:** Everyone needs to participate in the right to
vote. My whole point of everyone is that there are still some Caucasians
that come in my office on a daily basis who've been living in Selma for
years and this is their first time registering to vote. So my thing is
not just for African-Americans to register to vote but for everyone
because I cannot judge whether or not you might not have my best
interests at heart so at least you need that opportunity to vote so that
your convictions can be heard. And I t- everybody needs their right but
with me bein' an African-American, I also have to take in consideration
my family, my people, because we are the ones who have been
disenfranchised for so long. We're still not equal to what the white
community has in Selma. What they have in Selma and probably even what
they will continue to even gain because they're the richest in Selma. So
we have a long way to still go.

Q: I drove around a little this morning and the differences between
neighborhoods is so obvious it kind of hurts your feelings. Within two
blocks, you can see a house that I think anyone would call wealthy and
you can turn the corner and see a house that anyone would call poor.

**Synethia Pettaway:** That's correct. And I am the type person, I just
recently bought a house in the city of Selma uh.. and before I did not
own a house in the city of Selma but I had property in the city of
Selma. But in owning a house, I do live in downtown Selma, but I am one
who wanted a house in the black community of Selma. I believe in staying
around, as I say, my people. I want to be around my people. I did not
want to move in what they call Ward One and Two in the city of Selma
because that is the predominantly white area of Selma. I want to be
around African-Americans. Uh.. I do live in a historical home in the
historical district of Selma but that is because I have lived in a
run-down home before. I have lived in an old dilapidated home before.
Uh.. I am firm believer that if you are faithful over a few things, the
Lord will make you ruler over many. And I do feel that I have earned
that. And I am one who continues to work with people and as you run
across people in Selma they will tell you that I am always trying to
encourage them to have a better way of life. Uh.. when I graduated from
high school back in 1983, I graduated from high school at Selma High
School. Instead of me leaving Selma to go to college, I attended
Concordia College which is in Selma. I was a substitute teacher in
Selma. I uh.. worked from a substitute teacher to a teacher's assistant.
I also worked as a base substitute teacher in the Selma City School
System. So I have been in Selma working. I have been dealing with
African-Americans in Selma all of my life. I actively participated in
the school protest, back in the 90's in Selma. And the school protest
dealt with school tracking and that is where you have people placed in
classes on levels. And we had a level one and level two and level three.
I was tracked back during my time in school because I came from a
predominantly black elementary school. So therefore, when I went to
junior high school and to the high school, I was placed in the lower
levels in the high school because of that. I had friends who came from
the integrated, predominantly white schools, they were placed in level
one and level two. We didn't even know that I had that opportunity to
even be a part of a level one and level two class. Now, my children are
in the magnet school which is called Chat \[ph?\], Selma Middle Chat
\[ph?\] Academy, which offer uhm.. classes in the arts, the cultural,
and humanities and technology. Uh.. they're not in that particular uh..
school dealing with uh.. levels but what you have to do as a parent is
you have to sign a form stating that you will not hold the school liable
for them if they fail within accelerated classes. And that's what they
call it, accelerated classes.

Q: I know you have a daughter who's about 13, what advice do you pass on
to her? How do you share your convictions with her?

**Synethia Pettaway:** My convictions with my daughter is I take my
daughter to vote with me every time I go vote. I take my son to vote
with me. Uh.. I take them to mass meetings. I take them to the marches
even if there is uh.. a march or anything that is going on during school
time, I make sure that they understand what it's all about. I take them
to see the council meetings. When we go out and we campaign for
different uh.. political officials, my children- they are just as active
in politics and campaigning and the issues in the city of Selma as I am.
So they can talk to you about all of the issues that are going on. They
can tell you who would be the best candidate for mayor, probate judge,
city council, county commission. They can tell you the difference in all
of them. They can tell you the different issues that are going on with
our uh.. violence in the city of Selma, with our water board in the city
of Selma, they can tell you all of that because they stay abreast of
those things. I encourage them to read the newspaper, I encourage them
to listen to the news on the radio and to watch the news.

\<crew talk\>

\<beep beep\>

\<crew talk\>

\<real long beep\>

Q: I've been asking a lot of questions and I didn't want to leave
without giving you the opportunity to speak your mind. I know there are
a lot of issues that you address in your personal life. I'd like you to
share those with us.

**Synethia Pettaway:** Uh.. well let's see uhm.. me being in Selma all
of my life and when I say all of my life uh.. I attended college here.
A-after graduating from Concordia College which was a two year college
then, I received my Associate of Arts degree from there. Uh.. Selma
University which was his- an historical institution that my parents
attended, uh.. I attended college there to earn my BS degree. When they
became an accredited four-year college I went back and earned my BS
there. Uhm.. and what I did was I was keeping history alive there
because I was standing on the shoulders of my parents. Uh.. my mother
actually during her childhood used to live on Selma University campus
and her father was a typing instructor there and also an accountant at
the school. Uh.. so I have deep, strong roots in Selma. Uh.. my
husband's family which is the Andrew Mosely \[ph?\] family also have
strong roots in Selma and with Selma University. Uh.. with my husband
working at the law firm of Chestnut, Sanders, Sanders, Pettaway and
Campbell, uh.. they're very active in Selma. That makes me very active
and together we work as a team in fighting for what is uh.. right for
the citizens of Selma. Uh.. f- to keep them informed of what is going on
and uh.. voting is- is one of those major things- uh.. when it is time
to go out and vote, we always launch a 'Get Out To Vote' campaign. I am
actively a member of all of the black political caucuses such as Alabama
New Staff Coalition, uhm.. the Alabama Democratic Conference. I am very
active in those uh.. different uh.. political caucuses and also I am
active with the NAACP. I am a member of that. We believe in getting
people out to vote. Uhm.. I do like to tell my children that the little,
small things that we take for granted and like I said earlier, uh.. when
you deal with children, you have to put it on their level like riding a
bicycle. You know, it's mandatory in some states that they wear bicycle
helmets. Uh.. so if those things interest you, you need to take an
interest in voting. If uh.. you have uh.. the culture of loading your
minivan up with a truckload of-of children or and you- now they have the
Seatbelt Law and you have to have everybody in a seatbelt and you don't
feel that seatbelts are the safest things or they just- they're not just
gonna save your life. If that's your interest, you need to stand up for
it. Whatever it is that you believe in, you believe in it and stand up
for it. My father, he always tell me that I allow my children to be too
vocal because I allow them- I tell them all the time, "If you're accused
of doing something wrong and you didn't do it, you don't.. accept that
punishment. If you feel like you need to ask a question, you ask that
question. You just do it in a manner in which it's respectable. But you
have to carry yourself in a way that you can earn respect because you
can't make a person respect you. You earn respect and by you earning
respect, people will give you that respect that is due to you."

Q: Well it's been very enjoyable for me and I really appreciate you
coming out and taking the time. We'll look forward to seeing you on
Friday

**Synethia Pettaway:** Ok.

Q: And as you suggest, I think we'll try and come right on in to the
Voting Rights office there.

**Synethia Pettaway:** Oh yes. The uhm.. the- my office is very
interesting so I would uhm.. really- I invite you to come uhm.. As a
member of the board, there are three of us and there are no difference
in our position. No more than we have a chair of the board but the chair
of the board, he more or less just oversee uh.. makes sure that whatever
rules and guidelines that are established, within the code of Alabama,
that we follow. We vote on things when we have things that are in
question. We vote majority rule in that situation so the chair is not
your boss, he's not uhm.. your dictator or anything like that. We are to
work together as a board, not as a dictator or per say as, "This is what
I say and this settles it." No, it is not that way. We're to work
together and we vote on the issues that come before the board that we
feel that are in question. And I think that that is a good way of
dealing with voter registration. If you were to come in and we have
questions about your residency, uh.. there tech- there uhm.. two
signatures will approve a voter registration application. And in those
two signatures it doesn't matter whether it is uhm.. the chair signature
or whether it is the two members of the board. It doesn't matter. So
what it is, if there's a question, all you need is two to agree. So the
chair makes no difference. It doesn't matter who the chair is.. of the
board.

Q: Synethia, I know you want to make sure that office is preserved. Tell
us why you think it should be a national historic site.

**Synethia Pettaway:** Oh yes, that is something that is very important.
It should be a national historical site because it is the original
office of the 1965 Voting Rights Movement. That is the original place
where they were turned around when they tried to go and register to vote
back then. That's the original place where they had the people counting
the beans. That's the original place where they asked the crazy
questions. Two African-Americans who went to register to vote, that is
the original place where they did not earn the right to vote. That's the
original floor in that office. It should not be changed, they need to
keep it and they need to keep that office as the original office for
voter registration. Now I do note that in the law, the code, for the
state of Alabama, it does give you with the width that the office should
be but I do feel that there should be some exceptions to Selma because
we are voting history-makers here in Selma and Dallas county.

Q: It's surely earned that reputation and I think it always will. I
guess as you think about the significance, sooner or later, it probably
will be a mecca as we try and preserve the Voting Rights Movement. Is
there an active group here in town interested in the preservation of the
courthouse?

**Synethia Pettaway:** Oh-h yes.. the Selma to Montgomery Historical
Trail. Uh.. My pastor, which is Dr. F. D. Reese, who's one of the
Courageous Eight and he uh.. signed the official letter going to Dr.
King inviting him to Selma. He is uh.. interested in preserving that
uh.. office as one of the historical landmarks. Uh.. one of our former
county commissioners who was Commissioner Perry Vonner \[ph?\] who
fought so hard for Dallas County and he really, really fought to keep
that office as the original office when he was a commissioner, as one of
the first African-American county commissioners for Dallas county. He
was one who uh.. made it very clear to me before he passed away that
that office should remain the official voter registration office and it
should be designated as an historical place.

Q: I know today you can register with a postcard. Tell us some of the
ploys and tricks that were used in the past to keep African-Americans
from voting.

**Synethia Pettaway:** Okay, in the past uh.. we don't have the
questionnaire where they were asked the questions in our office. We do
have in our office, that I have tracked down, a record of the names who-
of African-Americans who did register to vote back in 1965. We do have
that list in our office. We do have some folders of uh.. people who did
register to vote back then, applications uhm.. of those people and they
were asked questions about their spouse, where did they work, they
needed references of people to vouch for them. So those are the things
that I have been able to locate within my office that uhm.. to identify
things of the past.

Q: I understand there was kind of a double standard back in those days,
that whites didn't have to necessarily take the literacy test or the
citizenship test.

**Synethia Pettaway:** Yes, that is what I was told. Yes. Uh.. I have an
aunt, I have an uncle- his name is Sanford Smith. He worked at the local
funeral home here and his wife, who was a school teacher, and she often
told me about she will never forget and she said it like this, she said,
"I'll never forget that day. I went to register to vote and I went with
the janitor of the school and they told me that he passed the test and I
didn't." She said, "I never- I never understood that." She said, "But
I-I-I did go back, I did not let them discourage me." She said, "I went
back." She said, "But there was no way I could tell them how many jelly
beans were in the jar." She said, "There was no way I could tell them
that 'cause I didn't know."

Q: That was a criteria for voting?

**Synethia Pettaway:** That was one of the criteria's also, yes.

Q: Describe that to me.

**Synethia Pettaway:** I was told that there was a jar with jelly beans
in it. And they used to ask them how many beans were in the- jelly beans
were in the jar. I don't know because remember I was just born in 1965
so that was something that I was told by my elders.

\<crew talk\>

Q: If you have any last minute thoughts, this would be your chance.

**Synethia Pettaway:** Well, all I just wanna do is just encourage
everyone, black and white, young and old, to understand your history and
as you learn and as you grasp your history, as you take hold of it, let
us build on it. Let us use those steps that have been stumbling blocks
as milestones to stepping ground to higher ground. Let us take that step
and let us make America a better place to live. Because there are still
uh.. issues that we must confront in our life.

\<crew talk\>

Q: Mayor Perkins, if you would please introduce yourself to us and tell
us a little about yourself.

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well I'm James Perkins Junior. I am mayor of
the city of Selma, Alabama. I was born in Selma, I reared in Selma, and
uh.. left for a little while to see how the rest of the world lived and-
and I came back home uh.. to serve the community.

Q: Well welcome back.

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well.

Q: I know you're a very esteemed and a popular mayor. Maybe you could
take us back in time, you would have been twelve or thirteen in 1965.
What are your recollections of the period?

**Mayor James Perkins:** \<sigh\> From the eyes of a child twelve years
old, uhm.. I think by age twelve I was a seasoned protester. I think
many of the young people who grew up in our community, we were engaged
and involved in a lot of the marches, the movement. Our goal was not
uh.. to achieve the voting rights, our goal was to simply be able to go
to a restaurant and order a hotdog without having to stand outside in
the rain. Or to be able to go to a movie and to sit downstairs, in the
main area, and not uh.. be exclusively limited to the crow's nest, which
was called. We called then the balcony, it's the uh.. it was very basic
things that I think most of the young people wanted and uh.. w-we had no
idea that uh.. uh.. the full breadth of changes that would take place as
a result of the involvement.

Q: Let me ask you, what were some of the obvious techniques of those Jim
Crow days?

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well if you- if you uhm.. wanted to buy a- a
suit of clothing, you couldn't try them on. Uhm.. there was uh.. just
certain areas that you couldn't go into \<cough\> or go near. Uhm.. a
young boy, I can remember, walking down Broad Street had gotten detached
from my mother and my father and being afraid to look up and look a
white woman in the eye for being uh.. the possibility of being accused
of reckless eyeballing and uh.. then we knew that that was a dangerous
situation. These were- these were very challenging times, knowing which
water fountain you could drink out of and which one you could not. Uh..
it was just interesting times for us. Uh.. the kids uh.. who grew up in
Selma and in many of the communities across this country that were
exposed to Jim Crow Law, I think we come to this new society with a
breadth of experience that, quite frankly, we need to share with the
newer generation. Yeah.

Q: When you look back at those times, what was your inspiration for that
kind of involvement? You obviously had a-

**Mayor James Perkins:** Yeah.

Q: ..a raised consciousness. What do you owe that to?

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well it's uh.. my-my mother and father were-
w-were- my father was an educator uh.. my mother's a professional nurse
and we were always been exposed to quite a bit uhm.. in terms of uhm..
social consciousness. The- b-but even more than that, we had
grandparents who had a sense of self-worth. Uh.. the people in our
community who were our spiritual leaders, the people that we looked up
to, uh.. they had a sense of a-a that was a value system that existed
that said that we- we had worth, we were.. uh.. human, we- we did have
value. And it was from that, and then when you move beyond your
immediate neighborhood and then you see this disparity, you see where
you have worth on your block but you are worthless when you go downtown.
It was a different- it was conflicting, it created a dynamic that was
really confusing to young folks.

Q: So you look to your parents, to your teacher, and I've heard the
church was fundamental in all this.

**Mayor James Perkins:** Absolutely. Uhm.. the church uhm.. i-is where
uh.. it all happened. Some say the movement had a strong spiritual base,
I say the movement was spiritual. Everything about the movement was
spiritual. Uh.. the attitude of the people, the value system uh.. the
motivation, everything was driven by a- by a spiritual thread that was
really controlled by the ministers and the pastors of these churches.
The Reverend L. L. Anderson, the Dr. F. D. Reese, the Reverend Hunter,
uh.. these men were men of God who spoke from the pulpit with booming
voices and very articulate and they could just kinda make it plain for
ya, if you will. Uh.. and c-could tell you the story of- of the children
of Israel's emancipation from Egypt and tie it to your own personal
experience in a way that the bible would become real and live and would
mean something to you.

Q: So there must have been a lot of fear as a young person and the
church would help you overcome that. I heard that mass meetings became
critical to generating enthusiasm and direction.

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well it started off fear and it turns to anger
and then the anger turns to hatred. It's a- it's a very bitter existence
that you have and- and one of the things that I recognize clearly is
that you have to grow beyond that in order to be useful to society. If
you can't get past the fear.. the anger.. and the hatred, to move
towards reconciliation, love and to develop some kind of peace in your
life, then you have no real- there's no real way for you to step forward
and serve the community and so I'm just thankful that we've been able to
go through- I have been able to go through that process. And-and-and
again, you know, I- I have been- I have been very adamant that we need
to tell our stories. We need to tell our children our stories uh.. and
n-not just of the- of the- of the fear but we need to tell them how we
were able to overcome the fear. We need to tell them how we- what-what
is it that we in fact- what did we do to get past the anger? What did we
do to get past the frustration? Because we all have those stories uh.. I
mean, if you- if you- if you really- if you really want uh.. a s- a
better society, you cannot forget from whence you've come. And what got
you from where you were. If you look spiritually, if you look in the
spiritual canons, much of them are history books and in those books it
talks about the emancipation of people. It talks about how people treat
each other or treated each other during the times of those ancient,
multi-cultural societies. There was always dissention and division and
racism existed even then \<cough\>. And so it's not that Selma was
unique in that regard or that the United States was unique in that
regard, but there- this is a human issue. It's a human problem, it's a
human illness that we need to work through together.

Q: The church does seem like the perfect place, the whole concept of
non-violence seems so appropriate to the church and its setting and its
significance. Can you tell us a little how that impacted your life?

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well \<cough\> I'm a very spiritual person uh..
I-I-I try to\... uhm.. appreciate the separation of church and state and
I try to comply with the separation of church and state and my service
in public office. \<cough\> But I don't know that there is anything that
tells me that I should keep God out of government and so I use that as
latitude to continue the mission and the ministry. People have to have a
belief system and a value system that's above them in order to really
understand their purpose.. in life. And that's where I was able to
identify my purpose in life. When you are able to do that, then you can
uh.. uh.. become useful to society. My purpose in life, is in-in-in- my
humble beliefs would be simply to uh.. to help bridge uh.. our Selma.
I've had the privilege of living under Jim Crow in the 50's. Living
through the separate and unequal education systems of the 60's. To live
through the integration of our school system in our society in the 70's
and 80's. To live- to see the re-segregation of our school system in the
90's. And what we have right now, I'm not quite sure but I am convinced
that as a people we must continue to put reconciliation over revenge and
we must put faith in place of our fears. To embrace one another, to love
one another. The basic premise is really two, and those are really, we
have to keep God first in our lives. And second, just treat people
right. If we could just get those two things right, the world would be a
whole lot better.

Q: Well you must be an inspiration to the people of Selma. Let me ask
you when you speak publicly, how do you challenge them to follow in your
footsteps?

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well.. we all have stories to tell. Uhm..
there's not a-a person of-of African-American descent in Selma who was
born in the early fifties or earlier, who didn't take a bath in a number
three tub. They didn't have showers, they didn't have indoor bathrooms.
We didn't use an outhouse uh.. for a bathroom facility. Uh.. who didn't
have toilet tissue but used cut newspaper. So those experiences we have
to tell our children so that they can understand and appreciate the-the
benefits of life today. Right now we have allowed uh.. a detachment of
our history from our present existence and our children think that they
are privileged. And they have lost real- the real significance of the
value of their own lives because of that. Uh.. I think we need to tell
our stories and make sure they understand. And it's painful, I was in a-
in a program at a church yesterday and there was a simple little skit of
women chopping cotton, chopping and picking cotton. And it moved the
audience to tears and it did that because we had not been telling the
stories of how our women had to pick and tote cotton. How they had to
chop cotton in order to make ends meet. My great-grandmother died when
she was ninety-two, ninety-three years old and she took the time to tell
me the story of her sharecropping experience. How she refused to go to
the field because she thought she was too pretty, but at the same time
she knew because her parents had required that she work and so what she
did, she decided to go get the wagon that was sitting by the house and
to go to the local blacksmith and ask to borrow the mule. He wouldn't
loan it to her, but he rented the mule to her. She took the wagon and
the mule, parked it by the sharecroppers field and as they were leaving
the field, she would encourage them. Instead of hauling their load to
the market on their heads and on their backs, to put it on the wagon and
go pick some more, a little extra for her and for their families. And
she actually made a living doing that. Ended up at the end of her life
owning a block and a half in the city of Selma. Those are the kinds of
stories our children need to hear. They need to understand and- and then
I think there will be a greater appreciation.. for where we are and who
we are.

Q: There's a quote on the other side of the bridge says that we have to
know our past in order to move forward.

**Mayor James Perkins:** Yes.

Q: Sounds like that was basically your motto.

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well Selma's uh.. Selma's not some uhm.. freak
of nature. And I don't think that we are some coincidence. Something-
some random occurrence of a series of events. If you think about Selma's
history, it's recent history. If you rolled back to April of 1865, you
see one of the last significant battles of the Civil War fought right
here in Selma, the Battle of Selma. If you look at that battle, uh..
most of the city was burned down. The Confederate munitions plant for
the Navy was located here in Selma. General Grant and General Forrest
\[ph?\] fought here in Selma. The last major fall of the Confederate
Army was here in Selma. Roll forward one hundred years and what do you
see? In March of 1965, you see another ground zero experience in Selma
where we experienced Bloody Sunday on the Edmund Pettis bridge, where we
see the rights of people of color across this country, indeed this
nation, is being challenged and being forged forward here in Selma. I
think- I think Selma's history has put Selma in a very unique position,
and that's why now I think we must now talk about reconciliation. We
must embrace reconciliation. Why? Well, if you look at the tapes of
South Africa, you see people walking in the streets. Young children
singing, "We shall overcome." Where did they get their model from? Well
they got their model from watching young people in the streets of Selma
walking through the streets singing, "We shall overcome." Well if they
were humble enough to borrow that model from us, why should be so
arrogant not to embrace reconciliation from South Africa? And so I say
to people that we must deal with the issue of reconciliation but I have
taken it to a different place. I talk about an intrapersonal
reconciliation, a reconciliation of a person's value system, to their
behavior. And by doing that I don't have to worry about whether I will
treat you right, what I have to do is check me, to make sure that I'm in
line with what I believe. What do we call people when they- when they
uh.. believe something and they do something differently, when they act
out of character? We say they're really a multi-personality, they a
schizophrenic, basically they're crazy. Uh.. none of us really want to
do that but because of fear, most people in the world walking, walk
around believing something different uh.. or inconsistent with what they
do. Uh.. we believe that you need to uh.. do unto others, this is a
basic fundamental value system. Treat people the way you want to be
treated. Yet we, most of the time, violate that simple premise. Why do
we do that? \<cough\> Primarily because of fear, because of anger,
because of distrust. Well, if I'm not worried about trying to check you.
If I understand that I can't control what you say, I can't control what
you do, I can't control what you think or how you feel, even about me,
but what I have a chance of controlling is how I respond to you. And if
I allow my value system, my- in my case, my spiritual value system, to
dominate my behavior, at that point I am reconciled. And it is through
that personal reconciliation I can reconcile my world with the rest of
the world. At that point it becomes really not a societal issue, it's an
individual charge. I think the only way we really have a chance of
addressing this issue of race relations, gender issues, uh.. cultural m-
issues, r-religious divisiveness that we're seeing, the only way that we
have a chance of addressing it is we're gonna have to do it one person
at a time. And each individual will have to assume responsibility for
their behavior. And it doesn't matter what spiritual canon you study or
you espouse to. You could be Jewish and the Torah will tell you the same
thing. Put God first, treat people right. You could be Muslim, the
Islamic Koran tells you to what? Put God first, treat people right. You
Christian, the holy scripture say, "Put God first, treat people right."
Those documents were written two thousand, three thousand, four
thousand, five thousand years ago and society, people, we still haven't
gotten it right. But it's really basic, it's really fundamental and if I
get it right for Perk, just for me, then my world is reconciled. I'm at
peace. I can find peace in the middle of the most turbulent conditions
because I am reconciled. It doesn't matter what people say about me and
I have grown to that point and I think because I reached that point in
my life, God had something that he could use to try and make a
difference in people's lives. So if there was a mantra for me, if there
was something th- a message that I have, that I would like to leave
people with, it's simply to just put God first in your life and just
treat folk right.

Q: That does seem so simple but we seem to be really struggling with it.
What do you think some of the next steps should be in the struggle?

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well I-I think that we're going to have to deal
with this issue of- of uh.. self-actualization, self worth. People are
going to have to really understand that it has no- that- that my
existence has nothing to do with how another person treats me. It really
does not. It really has to do with what kind of relationship I have with
me. Because if I'm not conflicted, if I am consistently believing and
doing what I believe, then a lot of the obstacles in my life will be
removed. Because I'm no longer concerned about what others are doing to
me. I'm not concerned about what road blocks you put in my way. I'm not
concerned about the glass ceiling. I'm only concerned about whether I
treat you right regardless of how you treat me. That's all. It-it- it's
almost too simple to be right. But really, it's nothing really
complicated about this process. I mean- I mean- if you- if you really-
if you really wanna uhm.. you really wanna have an impact on the world,
uh.. straighten yourself out.

Q: As you talk with young people, how do you phrase the message to those
in their early to mid-teens?

**Mayor James Perkins:** Well uhm.. the message is pretty consistent for
the old and for the young, uh.. for black and for white. Uh.. we in
Selma, we don't know much about diversity. Our world is pretty much
black and white. It's pretty much that way. We're seeing an evolving
Hispanic community. When people come into our community, whether afar or
whether uh.. from near, uh.. the message is the same. Uh.. and it needs
to be the same. I don't know if you were a part of a church system or an
institutional church or an organized church but isn't it interesting how
we go to church every Sunday, the minister will start off with a theme,
he will deliver a message and at the end of the message, if you're
Christian, he will then tell you about the Salvation Plan and he will
tell you about the death and the resurrection of Christ. And he does it
every Sunday, he'll start off with a theme and then he'll tell you about
salvation. And I find it awfully interesting that he can do that every
Sunday, fifty-two Sundays a year and there're people who will sit in the
congregation and listen for twenty years and still not get it. We have
to simply keep saying it because eventually someone's going to get it.
And it happens one person at a time. When they're ready, the light goes
on. The other thing we have to always remember is you're not gonna save
everybody. Some folk don't wanna get it right. Some people just don't
want to go there, some people really would rather uh.. thrive..

\<tape ends abruptly\>

\#### End of CD 10A \####