# Oral History Interview with

# 

# JOHN KOCHAN

Saturday, Sept. 25, 1999

At Skyland Conference Hall

66^th^ Reunion of the Shenandoah Chapter

of the

Civilian Conservation Corps

Interviewer: John Amberson

> Park Volunteer in Archives

Transcribed by: Gloria Updyke

Shenandoah National Park

Luray, VA

Original manuscript on deposit at

Shenandoah National Park Archives

# INDEX

[page]{.underline}

Al-Can highway, Canada to Alaska 2

Being discharged through army 3

CCC

Conditioning 2

Enlisting 1

Gained from the experience 3

Getting along with other nationalities 3

Moving individually 2

Cedar Run, PA 2

Camp S-90 2

Comparing camps 3

Goldsboro, PA 2

Idaho 2

La Porte, PA 2

Camp S-95 2

New Cumberland, PA 3

Pearl Harbor 1

Pennsylvania 1

Priest Lake and River 2,3

World War II 1

Work

Clearing deadwood 2

Driving 2

Fire trails 2

Forestry 2

Logging for the lumber company 2

**Transcription**

JA: Saturday, September 25, 1999. We're at Skyland Conference Hall at
Shenandoah National Park, the 66^th^ Annual Reunion of the Shenandoah
Chapter of the Civilian Conservation Corps. My name is John Amberson,
I'm a volunteer in Shenandoah National Park and I'm here today with John
Kochan. How do you pronounce your name sir?

JK: K-O-C-H-A-N, Kochan.

JA: Kochan, Kochan, excuse me, John Kochan. Mr. Kochan, would you state
your name and when you enlisted in the CCC?

JK: My name is John Kochan and I enlisted into the CCC camps, 1941. Uh,
...

JA: When did you first hear about the CCC?

JK: When I first heard about it was word of mouth. It went uh, from the
older people that first went into the CCC camps, in 1933, and it
trickled down to me where I became the last one to get into the CC
camps.

JA: Uh huh. And that again was in, what, the date of that, that you went
in?

JK: The date, of that? Is uh, 10-27-1941.

JA: Right. And you were living at that time in Pennsylvania, is that
correct?

JK: Yes, with my parents.

JA: And uh, these were, this was just before or actually during almost
the beginning of the Second World War?

JK: It was the beginning of the second world war, yes because I was in
the CC camps at the time when, when they announced Pearl Harbor was
invaded.

JA: And what was one of the reasons why you joined the CCC at that time?

JK: Out of necessity, because uh, my parents didn't have the income uh,
you know to support themselves and me and the rest of the family.

JA: And how old were you at the time?

JK: When I went in? Uh, I went in when I was 16 years old.

JA: When you left uh there, you went into the service, what was the next
place that you went to? You went in for physical conditioning, is that
correct.

JK: Well, yes, uh that was at the camp where we had you know uh, our
exercises, and you know, training in different uh fields, of uh work.
See conditioning means, not in the sense of physical as much, it's
that's, it meant that, preparing oneself for the different job works
that they had at the camp.

JA: Mm hmm. And what type of conditioning did you go through? What type
of preparation did they give you?

JK: Well, forestry work. And uh also driver training, where we learned
to drive different vehicles, and uh, that uh, there were numerous other
types of training, but in where I started, you know, in like the
forestry building, fire, fire trails and clearing deadwood from the
forest and things like that.

JA: And then after you were at least a month there in this particular
place, and then you went to 4 different places during your enlistment?

JK: Yes. 4 different places. I was in a place called Cedar Run, uh, uh,
Pennsylvania. And the Camp number was S-90. And then I went to uh, uh,
Camp s-95, La Porte, Pennsylvania. And after that uh, uh, I went to uh,
which was forestry. After that I went to uh, Goldsboro, Pennsylvania, uh
which was also, what we did there, was, uh, build firing ranges at uh,
an army base, at that particular time. I can't remember it as of right
now. And also uh, we were sent to uh, Idaho to prepare us to build the
Al-Can highway, from United States going through Canada to Alaska, which
never developed because World War II was declared for us.

JA: When you went from these, place to place, you whole unit was
transferred at one time?

JK: No, individual, individual, wherever I went, I went as an
individual. We didn't go in groups. Uh, uh, we went as trainees for
whatever work that we, where I went into like was, clearing out in
Idaho, clearing blister rust you know, from the trees, to preserve the
trees so they wouldn't die. That was one of the projects.

JA: When you went out there, were you the only one chosen to go to that
particular place? Or was there many from your camp?

JK: No, I was the only one no matter where I went, I was the only one.

JA: That sounds like a special status you were in, that you were chosen
to do this, in these different places.

JK: Well because of the forestry work, and uh our camp leader was
actually a civil service person. He was a forest ranger involved in uh,
building uh, camp booms on the lake, Priest Lake, to collect logs that
were going to the lumber company at that particular time. The trees that
we felled were the trees that went to the lumber company.

JA: What is interesting I think, is the fact that you were doing
something a little bit different than other CCC men, and they went to
one camp as a unit. You went as an individual from place to place.

JK: Yes, because of my ethnic background uh, they felt you know that,
and then of course interviewing me, of the type of person that I was. In
uh, being sociable, would blend in wherever I went, I talked to anybody
and everybody, and you know, because it was all a thing that we had to
be, in order to stay together we had to get along together, you know,
that kind of thing.

JA: Yes, and your experiences at these different camps at these 4
different places you were working, were they much the same? The camps,
were they put together the same way, the uh, was the routine about the
same at each of the camps, or was each one different?

JK: Well, they were different because of, like when I was out there in
Idaho, they didn't even start the project of the Al-Can highway. Uh, we
were in you know, clearing the forest and uh, sending the logs, you know
to the lumber, lumber mills. And they, well the lumber, the logs were
actually sent down the river or the lake, Priest Lake or Priest River,
and uh, the, going to the logging camps. That was the purpose there, but
our main purpose was to build the Al-Can highway, which never developed.

JA: When you uh, when you finished up your tour with the CCC, did you go
in the military right then?

JK: Uh, when I was discharged, uh, I was actually discharged through the
army uh, because the CCC's were abolished, so the army took total
control of it when I was discharged. Because I was discharged through,
at the uh, Cumberland uh, Cumberland, Pennsylvania, New Cumberland,
Pennsylvania, which was an army depot at that time. I think it still is
today, but uh.

JA: All and all with your experience in the CCC's did you find that,
that it was a worthwhile time in your life?

JK: Definitely, because I learned to get along with people from all
walks of life. Uh, and all nationalities. Because in the camps that I
was in, there were Jewish people there, Irish, Italian, German. It, you
know, they were all nationalities, and it was a wonderful experience for
me. Today, I uh, I am the same way as I was then. Uh, I always got along
with all the CCC'ers, even today.

JA: That's great.

JK: I uh, I'm quick to apologize. You know, for my rudeness, if it is
rude, you know to uh, to carry on a conversation and boast about my CC
experiences. If that's rude, then I'm guilty of it.

JA: Listen, thank you so much for stopping by.

JK: Sure.