**The Manager's Tool Kit**

**for Environmental Compliance & Pollution Prevention**

**Module 2 of 6**

**A Telecast Originating from the BLM National Training Center in
Phoenix, Arizona**

**February 14, 2002**

This transcript is from the closed-captioning file produced during the
telecast.

It may contain errors and omissions in transcription.

Announcer: the Bureau of Land Management Satellite Network and The USDA
Forest Service Present Live from the BLM National Training Center in
Phoenix, Arizona: Manager\'s Tool Kit for Environmental Compliance And
Pollution Prevention. And Now the Host of Your Program, Tony Garrett.

T. Garrett: Hello and Welcome To the Second Part of Our Interagency
Course on Environmental Compliance and Pollution Prevention. Today\'s
Module Is the Second in The Six‑part Series We Are Broadcasting this
Month and in March. Last Week in Our First Module We Covered CERCLA and
Superfund Issues. Today\'s Telecast Will Focus on Hazardous Waste and
Solid Waste, Underground and above Ground Storage Tanks. Our Objective
for this Module Is That upon Completion of the Training You\'ll Be Able
to Identify and Apply Correct Management Actions to Comply With the
Resource Conservation And Recovery Act, or Rcra. And Once Again We\'ve
Assembled a First‑rate Team of Instructors Led by Martin Thrasher, an
Attorney with Broad Experience In Hazardous Materials Issues in The
Public Sector. Martin, Thanks Again for Joining Us.

M. Thrasher: Good Morning, Tony. It\'s a Pleasure to Be Here Again.

T. Garrett: Also Back with Us This Week to Give Us the USDA Forest
Service Perspective Is Frank Mills, the National Coordinator for
Environmental Enforcement. Frank Has Been Involved in Haz‑mat Work for
More than 30 Years with the U.s. Coast Guard, The Epa and Now the Forest
Service. Good Morning, Frank.

F. Mills: Good Morning, Tony. Had Such a Great Time Last Week. It\'s
Good to Be Back.

T. Garrett: We\'re Glad You\'re Here. Completing Our Instructional Team
from the BLM Washington Office Is Ken Morin, Who Is the National Lead
for the Bureau\'s Cashe Audit Program. Ken Has Been Doing Facility
Compliance Work for More than 20 Years. He Came to BLM from the Navy to
Create and Run the Bureau\'s Cashe Audit Program. Ken, We\'re Glad to
Have You with Us Today.

K. Morin: It\'s Good to Be Here. I Have Been to Every Field Office in
the Bureau over the Eight Years and Hope to Impart Some Real World
Practical Solutions to Issues You Might Be Facing.

T. Garrett: We Also Welcome Employees from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife
Service, the National Park Service and the Bureau of Reclamation and Any
Others Who May Be Participating In the Training. We Want You to Know
Your Participation Is Very Important To the Success of These Satellite
Instructional Sessions. Again to Help You Communicate in Real Time with
Our Instructors, We\'re Going to Use the Push‑to‑talk Technology So You
Can Interact with Us Directly. There Will Be Times When We\'ll Ask You
to Answer Questions During Exercise Segments or Invite You to Share Some
of Your Experiences with Us.

There Will Also Be General Question‑and‑answer Segments When You\'ll
Have Questions for Our Instructors and Periods When You\'ll Be Able to
Interrupt Our Trainers and Ask Questions about The Material That\'s
Being Presented. Just like You Would Raise Your Hand in a Classroom.
Whenever You Do Push to Talk With Us We Ask That You Push the Button,
State Your Name and Location Before Instructors Can Call on You. To Help
Manage All of this We Will Let You Know When It\'s Ok To Push to Talk by
Putting a Green Light Icon in the Upper Right Corner of the Screen,
Green like the One Appearing Now On Your Screen. And During Periods When
We Would Prefer That You Concentrate on The Instruction Being Presented
And Hold Your Questions Just a Little While, We\'ll Put up a Red Light
Icon in the Corner. There\'s the Red Light Icon. That Will Tell You to
Hold Those Questions until a Later Time.

We Will Try to Keep the Green Light on as Much as Possible Because We
Want Feedback from You and We Want to Answer All Your Questions.
Throughout this Program We Do Want to Hear from You. If for Some Reason
You Did Not Get the Phone Number and the Numeric Pass Code for the
Push‑to‑talk Telephone Bridge For Your Agency, Please Call Our Operator
Now at 602‑943‑2279 to Get That Information. And If You Don\'t Have a
Push‑to‑talk System at Your Viewing Site, and You Have a Question or a
Comment for Us, You Can Call Us Toll‑free at This Number. Later in Our
Broadcast We\'ll Have the Second Installment of The Ever Popular Game
Show \"The Hazmat Challenge.\" We\'ll Be Dividing Our Viewing Audience
into Two Teams this Time to Face off and Test Your Knowledge. You\'ll Be
Competing for Fabulous Prizes as You Answer Questions Based on the
Material We Will Be Covering in this Segment of Our Training. So Stay
Tuned for \"The Hazmat Challenge.\" Now, Those of You Who Were with Us
Last Week for Module One May Remember Mark Hemingway of Yellowstone
National Park Was a Contestant in Our \"Hazmat Challenge\" Game. We
since Learned Mark Rode 140 Miles by Snowmobile to Take That Satellite
Course Last Week. So, Mark, I\'m Not Sure If You Can See it in That
Picture, but Mark\'s Snowmobile Now Has a Bumper Sticker That Says \"I
Am An Honor Student at the National Training Center.\" Mark, If You\'re
with Us Again Today, Go Ahead and Press the Button on Your Microphone
and Check in with Us. Ok. ‑‑

Caller: I\'m Here.

T. Garrett: Good to Here from You. I Was Afraid Maybe the Snow Delayed
You this Time. How Was Your Trip to the Downlink Site?

Caller: it Wasn\'t Bad but I Did Find Buffalo on the Road I Had to Watch
for in the Dark.

T. Garrett: Well, Listen, Whether You Braved the Buffalo In the Dark and
the Frigid Snowy Landscape of Wyoming to Be with Us this Morning, like
Mark Did, Or Perhaps Just Strolled down The Hall in Your Office to the
Viewing Room in the Comfort of Your Office Building, We Want to Thank
You for Joining Us and We Encourage You to Use That Push‑to‑talk System
to Get in Touch with Us. So Don\'t Be Buffaloed. Just Tune in and Push
to Talk. By Now All of You Should Have Registered for this Satellite
Course and Received the Course Training Materials. The Manager\'s Tool
Kit. If You\'ve Not Registered, Please See Your Agency\'s Website to
Download the Tool Kit. These Websites Contain an Outline of Our Training
Content For All These Telecasts, Course Goals and Objectives and Some
Other Useful Resources. And Now, to Begin Today\'s Coursework, Here
Again Is Martin Thrasher.

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Tony. That\'s Impressive That Mark Goes Through Aum
Effort to Be Here But I Also Want to Recognize All The Other Folks Who
Have Taken Time off from Work Make a Lot of Effort to Attend this
Program And We Certainly Want to Make it Worth While to You. All of Us
Want to Encourage You To Push the Buttons, Talk to Us At Any Time That
the Green Light\'s on Because We Need to Be Responsive to What You\'re
Thinking about and Not Just Proceed Through with Our Prepared Program.
Now, You Might Remember Last Week That I Talked about the Importance of
Terminology in the Hazardous Materials World. Of Course, the Reason
We\'re Concerned about Properly Categorizing Hazardous Materials Is That
There Are Different Rules That Are Associated with Each One, and as We
Described Last Week, If You Violate the Rules, You Can Be Subject and
Your Agency Can Be Subject to Tremendous Liability for Doing That. Now,
Last Week I Drew You a Rather Rough Schematic of the Relationship of
These, and I Would like to Remind You of That Again Today as We Get
Going. First of All, We Have this Concept of Hazardous Materials.
Hazardous Materials Generally We Use as an Overall Term to Refer To the
Universe of Regulated Material. Now, it Has a Specific Meaning Under the
Department of Transportation, but for Today We\'re Referring to it as
the Universe of Materials That Are Regulated. Now, Within That Universe
We Have a Very Large Set of Materials That We Call Hazardous Substances,
and Hazardous Substances Are Regulated under The Comprehensive
Environmental Response Compensation and Liability Act or CERCLA, and
That\'s the Primary Statute That We Covered Last Week. Now, Within That
Universe of Hazardous Substances We Have a Universe of Wastes That We
Call Hazardous Wastes, and These Are Regulated under What\'s Called The
Resource Conservation and Recovery Act, and That\'s the Primary Statute
That We\'re Going To Be Covering Today, Dealing With Hazardous Wastes.
So as You Look at the Program Today, Let Me Kind of Crosshatch This,
We\'re Dealing with this Universe of Materials Primarily. Now, There\'s
Another Set of Materials out Here ‑‑ Oh, Let Me Give You this One First.
Almost Forgot about It. And That\'s Extremely Hazardous Substances. Now,
Extremely Hazardous Substances Are Regulated under The Emergency
Planning and Community Right to Know Act or Epcra. We\'re Going to Be
Covering Epcra In Detail next Week. The Other Set of Materials That I
Mentioned to You Are Nonhazardous Substances, and They Include a Lot of
Different Things, but the Primary One That You\'re Dealing with Are
Petroleum or Petroleum Products. Now, Today During Our Discussion Of
Rcra, We\'re Going to Be Covering a Lot of Discussion About Petroleum
and Petroleum Contaminated Products as Well. So These Are the Two
Primary Things That We\'re Covering. Now, I\'ve Got to Admit to You That
this Schematic Is a Bit Simplistic and Is Not Accurate From a Regulatory
Point of View But I Wanted to Give You a Little Visual Image of the
Types Of Things We\'re Talking about And That We\'re Going to
Concentrate on These Two Commodities Today, the Hazardous Wastes and
Petroleum. Now, as We Did Last Week, We Have a Really Fun Learning
Assessment to Kind of Get a Check on What You Know, Give You An Idea of
What You Know Going Into the Program. What I Would like You to Do Is Get
into Your Course Materials There and You Should Find a Learning
Assessment for Module 2 And Then I\'m Also Going to Put It up Here in
Front of this Camera. Let Me Go Through These Slowly In Case You Don\'t
Have the Materials You\'ll Have Time to Write down Your Answers on a
Blank Sheet of Paper. There Are Eight Questions Here. The First One Is:
the Characteristics of Hazardous Wastes under the Resource Conservation
and Recovery Act Are: And There Are Four of Those Characteristics. So
Write Those Down. The next Question, True or False: Hazardous Wastes
Include All Substances That Can Kill People. The Third Question, Again
True Or False: Most Waste Pesticides Are Regarded as Hazardous Wastes.
The Fourth Question: The Federal Facility Compliance Act or Ffca,
Provides That Federal Facilities and Federal Employees Are Subject to
Federal, State, and Local Laws Relating to Blank Waste and Blank Waste.
So What Waste Does the Federal Facility Compliance Act Refer To? All
Right, Number 5: Rcra, the Resource Conservation Recovery Act, Provides
the Federal Legal Basis for Regulation of Blank Wastes Blank Waste, and
Blank Storage Tanks. So, in Other Words, What\'s the Coverage of Rcra?
Sixth Question, Again Back to True and False: If a Waste Is Excluded
from Regulation as a Hazardous Waste Under Rcra, it May Still Be Subject
to Regulations as a Hazardous Substance under CERCLA, or the Superfund
Law. True or False? Next Question. This Is a Hard One: What Are the
Three Levels of Hazardous Waste Generators under Rcra? There Are Three
Levels of Generators. And Lastly, Number 8: Why Is it Important to Know
Your Facilities\' Hazardous Waste Generator Status? All Right. That\'s
the Learning Assessment, And at the End of the Program We\'re Going to
Be Going Back and Covering That Learning Assessment. Now, Before We Get
into the Substance of the Program, One of The Things That I Want to Do
Is To Emphasize That All of the Things That Can Kill People or Hurt
People or Harm the Environment Are Not Necessarily Hazardous Wastes
Regulated under Rcra. Let Me Show You a Few Examples Of That. Here\'s a
Piece of Asbestos Containing Floor Tile. This Is a Very Highly Regulated
Material. But it Is Not Regulated under The Hazardous Waste Rules. It
Has its Own Set of Rules That You Have to Follow. So It\'s Not a
Hazardous Waste. Now, I Understand That There May Be Some States Where
Asbestos‑containing Waste Material Is Considered a Hazardous Waste, but
for the Most Part it Is Not. Certainly Not under the Federal Program.
Let Me Give You Another Example Here. This Jar Contains Some Petroleum
Contaminated Soil, and it Seems Rather Innocuous, but this Particular
Waste Is Highly Regulated as a Hazardous Waste Under Rcra, under Certain
Circumstances, and Then under Other Circumstances under Rcra Under the
Underground Storage Tank Regulations it Has a Different Set of Rules. So
the Importance Here Is to Know That You Can Have the Same Commodity and
it May Have Regulations under One Set of Rules and May Be Regulated
Different under Another Set. Let Me Show You Another Example Here of
Some Highly Toxic Material. Now, this Is ‑‑ Now, this Is Some Jim Beam
Whiskey. This Stuff Kills People. And Yet it Is Not Regulated as a
Hazardous Waste. It\'s a Consumer Product That\'s Sold on the Market. So
Even Even Though Things Can Kill You and Are Harmful Doesn\'t Mean
They\'re Regulated as Harmful Waste. Here\'s Another Example. This Is a
Nicad, Nickel Cadmium Battery That\'s No Longer Any Good. As Innocuous
as it Is, as Sealed Up as it Is, it Is Regulated as A Hazardous Waste as
under the Resource Conservation Recovery Act but There\'s Some Good
Things You Can Do as Far as Recycling This Type of Material. We\'ll
Cover That Later. To Take it out from Underneath Most of the Rules. I
Have One More Sample Here to Talk about in this Regard. This Jar Right
Here and It\'s Kind of Hard to Tell, Contains What\'s Called Pcb Oil
That Comes From the ‑‑ Usually Electrical Transformers. This Is a Very
Highly Regulated Material. It\'s Fairly Well Accepted as a Human
Carcinogen. And Yet it Is Not Regulated as a Hazardous Waste. It Has its
Own Set of Very Specific Regulations That Govern Its Storage and
Disposal. So You Want to Make Sure as You Look at this Business to Not
Just Label Everything as Hazardous Waste. Some of These Things Have
Their Own Special Rules. All Right. Any Questions about That to this
Point?

T. Garrett: Martin, We Did Receive a Question by Fax and We Can Deal
with it Now If It\'s Appropriate or Hold this until a Later Time in the
Program. This Is a Fax That Came in from Bill Murphy in Oregon for Ken
on Our Panel. The Question Is this Issue Has Come up from Time to Time,
Could You Clear up the Following Issue, Law Enforcement Ammunition. One,
How Much Can Be Stored in One Location? Two, What Are the Requirements
For Storage? And, Three, What Are If Any Additional Special
Considerations for Storage of Law Enforcement Ammunition. Should We Deal
with That Now?

M. Thrasher: Well, We Could Have Some Response. Law Enforcement
Ammunition Is a Product That\'s Being Stored to Be Used, So it Does Not
Come Under the Hazardous Waste Rules. Now, If You\'re Talking about
Disposal of Waste Ammunition That Has Not Been Expended, Then It
Certainly Can Come under the Hazardous Waste Rules and I Think Frank Has
Done Some Research on That Sort of Issue.

F. Mills: We\'ll Get into That Later in the Program, but I Think Ken
Should Address this Directly Because it Is a BLM Question. Ken?

K. Morin: in Regards to How Much You Have to Have Before It\'s
Regulated, the Osha Regulations State That You Have To Have over 3
Quarters of a Million Rounds to Even Be Regulated. In General, If
Ammunition Is Stored in a Closed Container, Away from the Public, Locked
Up, It\'s Fine. It Doesn\'t Need to Be in a Flammable Storage Cabinet or
Even in a Gun Vault. It\'s More of a Best Management Practice That it Be
Stored in The Gun Vault. I Think That\'s It.

T. Garrett: Thanks to Bill Murphy for Faxing in That Question.

M. Thrasher: Thank You. Let Us Go Ahead and Turn to the Next Part of the
Program. I Want to Just Spend a Few Minutes Covering What\'s Called The
Federal Facility Compliance Act. The Federal Facility Compliance Act, or
Ffca, Was Adopted by Congress in 1992, and It\'s Very Simple in its
Nature. What it Requires Is That All Federal Agencies and Federal
Employees Comply with All Federal, State and Local Solid And Hazardous
Waste Laws. Keep in Mind That I Said Solid And Hazardous Waste Laws. It
Does Not Require Compliance With Air Quality Laws, Water Quality Laws
and Safe Drinking Water Act Laws. Those Are Covered in Other Areas. It
Strictly Relates to Solid and Hazardous Wastes. Now, You May Question
What We Mean by a Facility. The Regulations Define What a Facility Is,
and That Is All Contiguous Land and Structures And Other Appurtenances
and Improvements on the Land. So We\'re Looking at a Contiguous Land
Area and I Think Later on In the Program the Other Instructors Are Going
to Talk About Someways to Kind of Move Around this Definition a Little
Bit, When You\'re Dealing with Particularly Midnight Dumping And So
Forth. Now, There Are Several Attributes to Federal Facility Compliance
Act That You Ought to Be Aware Of. First of All, it Provides That
Federal Facilities and Federal Employees Are Subject to State, Civil
Actions. So If the State Can Fine Folks Or Issue Injunctions to Their
Court System, They Can Do That Against Federal Facilities as Well.
Secondly, There Are Administrative Sanctions That Are Provided For. So
If the State Has Authority to Fine or Bring Orders of Compliance Against
Others, Then They Can Do it Against Federal Facilities as Well. Thirdly,
Federal Facilities Are Subject to the Licensing and Permitting
Requirements Required By the State and They must Pay Reasonable Fees for
Those Licenses or Permits. Now, this Is Not to Say That the States
Can\'t Adopt Laws Just for Federal Facilities. That Is Not the Case. It
Just Says That Federal Facilities Are Subject to the State Laws That
Everyone Else Is Subject To. Lastly, and Probably Most Importantly under
the Federal Facility Compliance Act, Federal Facilities Are Subject to
Inspections by State Inspectors. So in the Solid Waste and Hazardous
Waste Arenas, You Should Expect a Lot More Involvement by the State
Regulatory Folks on Your Facilities and They Do Have Authority to Enter
There. Basically, to Sum up Federal Facility Compliance Act, the Idea of
it Was to Place Federal Facilities and Federal Employees On Par, on the
Same Level, as Everyone Else in Industry. So I Think with That
Introduction of the Federal Facilities, I Just Wondered If Either One of
You Had Any Experience with State Inspectors On Federal Properties?

F. Mills: One of the Things That Each of You Should Be Aware Of Is That
There Are Two Sets of Inspectors Who Probably Will Be Looking at Your
Facility. One Is the State Inspectors and The Federal Epa Inspectors.
Now, What\'s Important about this Is That These People Are There To Do a
Job. Now, I Can Tell Every One of You That If You Were out on a
Campground Site or out in the Forest or on Our Lands or Park And You
Observed a Person Who Was Spilling Used Oil on the Ground, You Would
Immediately Walk up to Them and Say \"This Is Wrong.\" Some of You Would
Issue a Citation. And Some of You Would Ask for Other Corrective Action
to Be Taken. I Think You Have to Understand That When These Regulators
Are Inside of Our Facilities, They\'re There to Do a Job Just Like We
Have to Do a Job Protecting Our Resources. They\'re There to Make Sure
That We as an Agency Are Protecting The Resource from Our Actions And I
Think What We Have to Understand Is When We\'re Sitting Down Talking to
These People, We Need to Make Sure They Feel Welcome, That We Have the
Records Available That They Need To Look At, That We Don\'t Try And Hide
Things or Act like We Don\'t Want Them There. Their Job Is Not to Hurt
Us or Cause Us Harm. Their Job Is Really to Protect The Environment. I
Think We Need to Be Very Careful and Be Prepared to Show Them That
We\'re There as an Agency to Support Their Mission, Not to Hinder Their
Mission. In All Likelihood, Martin, These People Are Just Trying to Do a
Job We\'re Trying to Do, and That Is Protect the Environment.

M. Thrasher: Good Point.

K. Morin: If You Do Happen to Have Contact with a State, Hopefully It\'s
in a Meeting, You\'re Working with Them, You\'re Trying to Resolve a
Common Issue, but it May Be an Inspection. In the Last Four Years I Am
Aware of Two Facilities That Were Actually Fined by State Agencies as a
Result of Rcra Inspections, One Being the Forest Service and Another One
a Doi Agency That Wasn\'t BLM Fortunately. What I Want to Show You Is
Pictures of What an Inspector Did See. We Happened to a Cashe Audit
Three Weeks Before, and Fortunately the Facility Was Trying to Do the
Right Thing and When We Did Our Audit We Were Able to Identify Some
Practices They Weren\'t Following Properly. One of the Things They Were
Trying to Do Was Accumulate Waste Paint from Tree Marking. The Concern
Here Is That You Can\'t Throw Full Aerosol Cans in The Trash. You Can\'t
Throw Partially Full Quarts or Gallons of Paint in The Trash. So They
Were Trying to Accumulate It. What They Were Doing Was They Were Putting
the Paint in this Drum. Now, When the Inspector Showed Up, and They
Showed up Three Weeks after the Cashe Audit, This Is What the Inspector
Found. The Facility Thought They Were Doing the Right Thing Prior to The
Cashe Audit. When the Inspector Saw this Drum, They Knowised it Was
Improperly Labeled and It\'s Not Closed. A Wooden Box on Top of an Open
Drum Is Not Acceptable Containment. The Other Thing Is If You Are
Accumulating Hazardous Waste, an Inspector Is Going to Try to Determine
Your Generator Status And Martin Is Going to Get into That. But That\'s
What Drives the Regs, And You Have to Have Records to Show How Much
You\'re Generating Every Month and That\'s Critical. This Facility
Didn\'t Have it at The Time. Needless to Say, the Inspectors Were
Getting Ready Issue to Some Fines and the Facility Did Just What Frank
Suggested. They Were Completely Open. They Said, Hey, We Did a
Compliance Audit Three Weeks Ago. Our Team Was out Here and They Gave
Them the Report. That Worked Wonders. That Happened at Another BLM
Facility. Inspectors Showed Up. We Gave Them the Inspection Report.
Because We Are Being Proactive And Actively Working to Prevent Stuff, We
Never Got a Fine from The Regulators. Back to You, Martin.

M. Thrasher: That\'s Great. That\'s Been My Experience. The More
Cooperative You Can Be, The Better off You Will Be. That\'s Great. If We
Have Any Questions about The Federal Facility Compliance Act, Make Sure
to Fax Those in Or Call Them Because We Would Be Glad to Go Back to
Those. Right Now I Would like to Turn To Kind of the Meat of this
Program Today and That\'s the Resource Conservation Recovery Act. The
Resource Conservation Recovery Act Was Passed by Congress in 1976, and
it Primarily Deals with What We Know as Solid Waste, Hazardous Waste and
Underground Storage Tanks. In the Program Today We\'re Going To
Concentrate on the Hazardous Waste and Then Somewhat on the Underground
Storage Tanks. Now, It\'s Somewhat Difficult for People, Particularly
Laymen Who Don\'t Work in the Field, to Figure out What a Hazardous
Waste Is. We Tend to Kind of Use it as a Generic Term Referring to All
of This Regulated Materials, and That Clearly Is Not the Case. So What I
like to Propose to People Is They Take Kind of a Simplistic View about
This, That There Are Three Questions You Can Ask Yourself to Determine
Whether or Not Something Is a Hazardous Waste That\'s Regulated. The
First Question That Needs to Be Asked Is Whether or Not the Particular
Material Is a Solid Waste. We\'re Going to Get into in That Just a
Moment. The Second Question Is, If It\'s A Solid Waste, Then Is the
Material for Some Reason Excluded from Regulation? And There Are Lots of
Exclusions. We Will Go over a Few of Those. And Then the Third Question
Is, If the Material Is a Solid Waste, If It\'s Not Excluded, Then, Is it
Listed on One of the Hazardous Waste Lists Score it Meet One of the
Characteristics? You Know, What I\'d like to Do Right Now to Make Sure
That You Have a Clear View of What Rcra Covers, Resource Conservation
Recovery Act, as I Mentioned Just a Few Minutes Ago, it Covers Solid
Wastes, Hazardous Wastes and Underground Storage Tanks. The Hazardous
Wastes Are Covered Under What\'s Called Subtitle C Of Rcra. If You Ever
Hear Anybody Mentioned Subtitle C Waste, They Are Referring to Hazardous
Wastes. The next Subtitle Is Subtitle D And Subtitle D Deals with Solid
Wastes. If You Ever Hear Anybody Say, Well That\'s Subtitle D Waste,
What Happens They\'re Referring To, Solid Waste under the Federal
Program. The Last Important Subtitle Here Is Subtitle I and That Deals
With Underground Storage Tanks. So If You Hear Somebody Refer to
Subtitle I, That\'s What They\'re Referring To. With That Let\'s Get
Back to the Definition of Solid Waste. Basically a Solid Waste Includes
Solids ‑‑ Let Me Show You an Example of That. This Is a Solid. I\'d
Shown That to You Earlier Here. It\'s a Nicad Battery That\'s No Longer
Useful. So That\'s a Solid Waste under Rcra. The Definition of Solid
Waste Also Includes Semi‑solids. Here We Have a Sludge Type Material
That\'s Not Liquid, but It\'s Kind of a Sludgy, Liquidy ‑‑ Has a Lot of
Water in It. But When We Use the Word \"Solid\" We\'re Also Referring to
a Semi‑solid Type Material. Now, the next Type of Material That\'s
Covered under the Definition of Solid Are Liquids. Here We Have a Liquid
Waste of An Unknown Type, and Even Though It\'s Liquid, It\'s Still
Considered a Solid. Lastly, I Wanted to Mention Contained Gases. Here\'s
a Gas Cylinder, and Assuming That We Had to Throw This Away as a Waste
and It\'s Still ‑‑ it Still Contains Gas, Then That Would Be a Contained
Gas That\'s Considered to Be a Solid Waste. So the Upshot of All of this
Is Even Though We Use the Term \"Solid Waste,\" it Really Means Solids,
Semi‑solids, Liquids and Contained Gases. It Would Be a Lot Better Off,
as Frank Was Observing Earlier, If We Just Called the Stuff Garbage Or
Trash, Because That\'s What We\'re Referring to Here. The next Concept
That I Wanted To Bring Forward to You Is the Concept of What Constitutes
a Solid Waste. There Is a Definition in the Regulations That Is Fairly
Broad, but in He Is Sense it Says That a Material That Is Abandoned,
That Is Inherently Waste‑like or Recycled Is a Solid Waste, and I Think
We Have A Couple of Visual Images to Kind of Illustrate That. Here We
Have a Landfill, and Most of Us Would Look at this And Say, Yeah,
That\'s a Solid Wasteland Fill, but Surely If We Went into it We Would
Find Some Liquids and Sludges and Contained Gases, and All of Those
Constitute Solid Waste. Here\'s Another Image That Is Not Quite So Clear
to a Lot of People but When You Get Your Audit Teams out There They\'re
Going to Question This. A Lot of Folks Would Call this a Material
Storage Yard. Because ‑‑ and It\'s a Little Bit Hard to Tell Back on
These Racks And in These Piles May Have Storage of Wood and Some Metal
Products and So Forth, but Look Up Front Here Where We\'ve Got a Pile of
Construction Debris Right Here. We\'ve Got Some Debris over Here, I
Can\'t Quite Tell What it Is. There Is Debris All over this Facility,
and If this Stuff Is Inherently Waste‑like or Being Treated like a
Waste, Then It\'s Going to Come under the Solid Waste Rules. Any
Questions at this Point About What a Solid Waste Is? Because That\'s
Kind of Springboard to Deciding What a Hazardous Waste Is. Ok. Let\'s
Move on Through Here. Remember, Every Waste That We\'ve Got, Even If
It\'s Dangerous, Is Not Necessarily Subject to the Hazardous Waste
Regulations. One of the Primary Management Techniques for Getting
Yourself Out of the Hazardous Waste Regulations Is to Make Sure That You
Minimize the Amount of Waste That You\'ve Got. Use the Stuff That
You\'ve Got. Make Sure That it Doesn\'t Leak Out onto the Ground and
Become a Waste. Manage Your Virgin Materials Such That it Doesn\'t
Become a Waste and Then You Don\'t Have to Worry about All of this
Hazardous Waste ‑‑ All These Hazardous Waste Rules.

F. Mills: Martin, Does That Mean, Really, I Should Be Looking at
Everything I Throw Away in the Garbage? For Instance, We Have Spray
Cans, We Have Paint Cans, We Have Paint Brushes. All of These Kind of
Things That We Use and We Can\'t Use Anymore, Are You Saying If That I
Reduce The Amount of Those Things That I Throw Away That I\'m Going to
Reduce the Amount of Regulation I Have under the Hazardous Waste Rules?

M. Thrasher: Absolutely. Absolutely. The less You Throw Away, the Less
You Have to Question Whether or Not It\'s a Hazardous Waste. So I Think
You\'re Better Off. Let\'s Turn to One Other Aspect Relating to
Hazardous Waste, and That Relates to Exclusions. There Are Lots of
Exclusions to The Hazardous Waste Rules, and I Think We\'ve Got Some
Depictions Of Those Here. One of the Types of Exclusions Are Permitted
Water Discharges That Go to a Publicly‑owned Treatment Works. When I Say
Permitted, That Means It Has to Have a Permit Issued Associated with
That So That the Permit ‑‑ You Have Documentation That the Discharge Was
Permitted. The next Exclusion Is ‑‑ Relates To Household Waste and this
Is a Very Narrow Exclusion, and I Think That Ken and Frank Are Going to
Talk about That a Little Bit More in Relation to Ranger Stations and
Motels, Hotels, Things like That, but Household Waste Itself Is Excluded
from the Rules. Another Major Exclusion Is Mining Overburden That Is
Returned to the Mine Site. So You May See That in the Field. One That\'s
Very Similar to it But Is Very Controversial Is the Oil and Gas
Exploration Waste Exclusion. In the Early Years this Got a Reputation as
Being Kind of an Escape‑all for the Oil and Gas Industry to Not Treat
Any of Their Waste as Hazardous Waste, And That\'s Clearly Not the Case.
This Exclusion Is Very Narrowly Defined, and it Relates Only to Oil and
Gas Exploration Waste. Frank ‑‑ Ken, Did You Have Something You Wanted
to Add?

K. Morin:, Yeah, Martin, One Thing I Would like to Clear up Is the Fact
That a Generating Company Is Generating a Solvent When They Are Cleaning
Equipment Out on the Site, Garages, Everybody, We Generate Spent
Solvents, That Spent Solvent Is Not Unique to Oil and Gas Exploration.
Therefore, Their Spent Solvent That They Generate out on the Pad Is Not
Exempt from Regulation. Has to Be Unique to Their Operation. In Other
Words, Nobody Else Generates That Type of Waste.

F. Mills: and I Would like to Mention Something Also, Martin, About
Household Hazardous Waste. Now, You Can Think of the Household Hazardous
Waste Exemption Just like You\'re Living in Your Own Home and the Things
That You Take out of Your House and Put in Your Garbage Can, but We Have
Some Unique Situations in Land Management Agencies That Lend Itself Well
To Use this Exclusion. One Is Campgrounds. Campgrounds Are Specifically
Mentioned in the Regulation as An Area Where Household Hazardous Wastes
Can Be Excluded From the Rcra Rule. So That Means If That I\'m a Camper
and the Things I Use in My Campsite and I Throw Away in The Dumpster Are
Inherently the Things That I Would Use at My Home, Then Those Things May
Not, Even Though They\'re Hazardous And Dangerous, May Not Be Considered
a Hazardous Waste and Can Go Right into the Dumpster. Now, Another Area
That We Have That Might Help Us Here Is it Also Specifically Mentions
Crew Quarters, Ranger Stations and Living Quarters. Now, this Would Mean
That If I Have a Fire Crew Who\'s Living in A Barrack Situation, Some of
the Things That They Use Inside That Building That Are Inherently Like
the Things They Use in Their Home, for Instance, Things To Clean Their
Floors, Shoe Polishes, Certain Things That They May Use for Hobbies,
Those Things Can Be Thrown Away in the Normal Trash, but It\'s Important
Also, Remember, That You Can Get Trapped in this Because Not Everything
Is in a Crew Quarter May Be Considered Home‑like. For Instance, Let\'s
Say That I Have a Can of Spray Paint That I\'m Using to Spray My Axes
with To Mark Them When I\'m out in the Field and I Bring That from the
Shop into the Quarters and I Spray Two or Three Axes That Night While
I\'m Working and Having My Dinner. That Can of Paint Would Not Be
Considered a Household Hazardous Waste. Because it Is Not Inherently
Like Something from a Home. It Is Really More a Product That We Would
Use in Our Business or In Our Operational Everyday Thing. So this
Household Hazardous Waste Area, Martin, Is Really Something That Can
Help Us and Benefit Us, but it Also Has Some Fuzzy Areas We Need to
Contact Our Local Hazardous Waste Administrator or Haz‑mat Specialist to
See If He Can Help Us Determine What We Should Do And Not Do.

M. Thrasher: Good. Thanks. Let Me Continue on and Mention One Other
Exclusion Here, and That Relates to Used Batteries. Now, Used Batteries
Are Excluded From the Regulation If They\'re Sent Back to the
Manufacturer For Reclamation. Too Often I\'ve Seen These Batteries
Thrown into a Dumpster And Someone Said, I Thought You Said They Were
Excluded. Well, They Are Excluded If They Are Sent Back for Reclamation,
But They Are Not Excluded from The Hazardous Waste Rules If They\'re
Being Tossed into the Dumpster.

K. Morin: There Is Two More Exclusions I Would like to Talk About and
the First One Is Related to Used Oil. Used Oil That Is Recycled Is Not
Subject to Hazardous Waste Regulations, and If You\'re Generating Used
Oil, You Definitely Don\'t Want to Be Storing it like This. Number One,
it Has to Be Called Waste Oil, Not Used Pill. Spills Have to Be Cleaned
up Upon Discovery. This Is an Example of How Not to Do it If That You
Are Going to Store it this Way, You Don\'t Want to Put the BLM Logo on
It, Either. Next Example of Something ‑‑ If You Recycle It, It\'s Not a
Hazardous Waste Is Freon. I See a Lot of These Refrigerators When We\'re
out Doing the Cashe Odd and it If You Leave a Refrigerator out in The
Yard, the Seals Dry and the Freon Vents. You Can\'t Allow That to Happen
That. The Biggest Hazard Associated With These Refrigerator That We\'re
Finding, Has Nothing to Do With Rcra, but a Personal Pet Peeve of Mine S
Take the Doors Off. Martin, Back to You.

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Ken. One Other Aspect That I Want to Mention with
Regard to Hazardous Relates to Empty Containers. For the Most Part, an
Empty Container Is One That Has Been Empty, All the Liquid Has Been
Taken out According to Normal Means. Now, an Empty Container Is Not
Subject to the Hazardous Waste Rules. Now, in a Couple of Modules We\'re
Going to Be Talking about Special Rules Relating to Pesticides, So I\'m
Not Speaking About Those. But for Ordinary Hazardous Materials, If You
Have a Container That\'s Been Emptied in The Normal Course of Business,
Then It\'s Not Going to Be a Hazardous Waste. But There Are Lots of Ins
and Outs to this One This, Rule, Too, So I Would Turn to Frank And Ken
to Comment about That.

K. Morin: What I Would like To Talk about Is Probably the Most Common
Type of Container That We Use in Land Management Agencies Is Aerosol
Cans. Particularly for Tree Marking Paint. They\'re Regulated
Differently. Unlike a Container Which If You Just Basically Pour
Everything Out It\'s Empty, You Can\'t Pour Everything out of a Aerosol
Can. Unfortunately the Epa Regs Are Very Vague. There Are Four
Interpretations I Am Aware of Related to Aerosol Cans and They Conflict.
Two of Them Say an Aerosol Can For it to Be Considered Empty it Has to
Be Punctured. The Other Two Say If the Aerosol Can Approaches
Atmospheric Pressure, in Other Words, All of The Product Is Used in It,
It\'s Considered Empty. The Most Recent Interpretation Says You Need to
Contact Your State Regulatory Agency Because They Have the Final Call.
Now, What Happens When You Have A Partially Full Can? What You\'re Going
to Have to Do Is Puncture it Because the Contents in it Is a Hazardous
Waste in Most Cases. Here\'s Another Example of What You Don\'t Want to
Be Doing If You Are Puncturing Aerosol Cans. If You Have Paint
Splattering All over the Place or It\'s on The Ground, a Regulator Is
Going To Consider That Improper Disposal. That\'s No Different than
Taking The Used Thinner or Solvent and Throwing it on the Ground.
Actually the Yosemite National Park When They Were Inspected by Epa in
the Early \'90s, Prior to The Federal Facilities Compliance Act, Epa
Cited Them For Improper Disposal and an Example They Gave Was Paint over
Spray on Rocks, Bushes and the Ground. So They Have Used this in the
Past. Frank, You Got Anything Else?

F. Mills: No, I Think You Pretty Well Covered That Section.

M. Thrasher: Great. What I Would like to Do Now Is Turn to Kind of the
Guts of Hazardous Waste. We Have Determined That Whatever We\'re Dealing
with Is ‑‑ Qualifies as Solid Waste. We Can\'t Figure out Someway to Use
it in a Legitimate Way. So it Isn\'t in the Waste Program. We\'ve
Figured out That it Isn\'t Excluded for Whatever Reason. Now We Need to
Examine Whether Or Not the Particular Waste Is a Hazardous Waste and
There Are Two Ways to Do That. One Is to Look at What We Call The
Hazardous Waste Lists, and The Second Way Is to Look at the Hazardous
Waste Characteristics. There Are Four of Those Characteristics. We\'re
Going to Go over Those in A Little Bit of Detail. Now, Let Me Mention
about the List Just for a Moment Here. Someone Asked Me Last Week, Well,
Where Do You Find These Lists of Hazardous Substances, Extremely
Hazardous Substances And So On, and Here on this Camera You Can See That
I\'ve Got What\'s Called the Infamous \"Book Of Lists for Regulated
Hazardous Substances.\" This Book Contained All the Lists for Hazardous
Wastes by Epa and it Contains a Lot of the Other Lists as Well. Now,
There Are Three Lists That Are in this Book. The First List Relates to
Waste From Nonspecific Sources and That\'s a Very Defined List of
Things. The next List Contains Waste From Specific Sources Such as
Specific Industries. And the Last List Is Called the Commercial Chemical
Products List and this Contains Just Generic Wastes from Any Sort of
Industry, Including Federal Facilities. There Are Two Parts to That
Particular List. You Don\'t Need to Be Concerned About It, but You\'ll
Hear People Talk about U Listed, That\'s the Ordinary Hazardous Waste,
and Then P Listed, the Letter P, P Listed Waste and Those Are Known As
Acute Hazardous Wastes. They Have a Special Set of Rules Associated with
Those. I Think Ken or Frank Later on Might Mention Some Special Rules
Related to P Listed Wastes.

F. Mills: Martin, I Would Like to Go over That Right Now. One of the
Areas That We Do Need To Look at Is this P Waste or Acute Hazardous
Waste. It\'s Important to Note That What They Mean Here Is a
Commercially Pure Product, Not a Mixture, and We Have a Photograph Here
of a Can of Penta. Now, There\'s Some Special Considerations You Have to
Use With These Containers. One, If You Finish the Container And the
Product Inside, You Have To Triple Rinse the Container, And That Means
You Have to Rinse It, Pour the Rinse Aid Out, Rinse It, Pour it Out, and
Rinse It and Pour it Out. Each Time the Stuff That You Pour Out, or the
Rinse Has to Be Collected as a Hazardous Waste And Managed and Then You
Can Throw That Container Away. So These Acute Hazardous Wastes Are ‑‑ or
P Wastes Is a Special Place in the Regulations and This Is Something
That You Really Should Read the Regulation about Before You Manage These
Specific Wastes. Thank You, Martin.

M. Thrasher: Ok. Thank You. It\'s Very Seldom That You Run Onto a P
Listed Waste, but When You Do, You Need to Get Some Help Immediately
Because the Trigger Points on That Is One Kilogram in a Month. That\'s
2.2 Pounds. It\'s Not Very Much Stuff. Any Other Comments about the
Listed Wastes? I Would Just Make a Note That I Think in My Own
Experience the Lists Are Probably a Little Bit Overused. People Are
Running to the List To Look up Virgin Products. The Lists We\'re Talking
about Are Lists of Wastes, Not Lists Of Virgin Products. Now, That
Particular Book I Showed You, of Course, Has Virgin Products as Well.
That\'s the List. Now, If You Have Any Questions About the List, the
Hazardous Waste Lists and How They\'re Used, Please Call in or Fax In.
Use Your Push‑to‑talk There. It\'s Real Easy to Do and We Would Be Glad
to Respond to You. We Would Be Glad to Go Back to It. So If You\'ve Got
Some Other Things That You Want to Go Back And Have Us Go over or
Discuss a Little Bit More, We\'re Happy to Do That. Now, in the Meantime
‑‑

Caller: Martin, this Is William from Ozark National Scenic Riverways.

M. Thrasher: I Missed Where You\'re From.

Caller: Ozark National Scenic Riverways with the National Park Service.

M. Thrasher: Go Ahead.

Caller: Question about the Book of Lists. Where Do You Get It? Who
Publishes It?

M. Thrasher: Let Me Put That Back up Here on this Camera and I\'m Not ‑‑
I Certainly Don\'t Want to Advertise for People. This Particular Book Is
Published ‑‑ See If I Can Get The Camera down Here So You Can See It.
This Book Is Published by the Government Institutes, Inc. It\'s a
Private Publishing Company That Publishes a Lot of Environmental
Material.

Caller: It\'s a General Book You Can Pick up at a Bookstore? It\'s Not a
Specialty Book?

M. Thrasher: I Don\'t Know About a Regular Book Source. Another Source
for These Lists Is ‑‑ They\'re Contained in the Code of Federal
Regulations, and The Code of Federal Regulations For the Epa Are All the
40 Series, as You See at the Top Here, 40 Cfr. So You Will Find Your
List in The 40 Cfrs as Well. Another Source Is to Go to Your Hazardous
Materials Coordinator. One of Those Folks. They Are Going to Have All of
These Lists. I Don\'t Know If They\'re Available in the Public Library.

F. Mills: Most of Them Are Available on the Internet. Right Now Epa Has
a Website Where You Can Download a Number Of These Lists. If You\'ll Go
into the Office of Solid and Has Dust ‑‑ Hazardous And Solid Waste, You
Can Actually Check out and Look into Their Pdf File Section and Find The
List There So You Can Download Them Directly.

K. Morin: If You Want the Specific Citation for the List Martin Was
Talking About, It\'s In Friday Cfr 261.31 Through 33. Rarely Will Be
Using the List. The Most Common Time You Will Use Sit You Just Did an
Environmental Compliance Audit, Found a Bunch of Excess Haz‑mat, Maybe
You Have You Had Acetone As a Solvent. It\'s Never Been Used. If You
Check on the List, Unused Acetone Is Going to Be like U106 Or Something
like That. I Don\'t Remember the Exact Number. Does That Help?

M. Thrasher: Can You Give Me The Number Again?

K. Morin: 261.31‑.33.

M. Thrasher: There Is the Regulatory Citation. One of the Things I Want
to Emphasize, I Think We Have Covered It, the Lists Are Important to
Know About, but Quite Frankly the Four Characteristics Are a Lot More
Important than the Lists for Federal Agency Activities. So I Wouldn\'t
Dwell Too Much on The Lists. Let\'s Move onto the Characteristics, Then,
Because That\'s the Most Important Way to Identify Hazardous Wastes. As
I Mentioned, There Are Four Characteristics, and We\'re Going To Be
Going over Those Individually. Ignitability Is the First One I Want to
Mention and Ignitability Is Defined as a Liquid with a Flash Point of
140 Degrees Fahrenheit or Less. And I Think We Have a Visual Image of
That. Apparently Not. Anyway, Liquids with a Flash Point of 140 Degrees
Fahrenheit Or Less. Yeah, We Do Here. Here\'s a Real Common Type of
Ignitable Hazardous Waste You Might Find out in the Field Where You\'ve
Got Old Fuel Cans Sitting Around and a Lot of Times They\'re Going to
Have a Residue in the Bottom of Them, Almost Always You\'re Going to
Find a Sludge or Residue in the Bottom. Oftentimes You\'ll Also Find
Them Half Full Because They\'ve Gotten Water in Them or Dirt in Them or
They\'ve Sat Around and They\'re No Longer ‑‑ You No Longer Want To Put
Them in Your Chainsaws or In Your Trucks and So They Just Sit Around and
They Become Waste. Well, Gasoline for the Most Part Is Going to Be an
Ignitable Hazardous Waste Because the Flash Point. Later on I\'ll
Mention That as Well, Because it Eye May Have Toxic Metals in It.

K. Morin: One Point Related To Gasoline, Though F You Recycle and it You
Send it Back To Be Rerefined It\'s Still a Product, Still Being Used for
Its Intended Use, It\'s Not Going To Count on Your Generator Status. We
Find an Awful Lot If You\'ve Got off Spec Fuels Be Fuel Blending Them,
Be Sending Them Back for Recycling. They Will Not Count Towards Those
100 Kilograms You Can Generate in a Month.

M. Thrasher: Good Point. Because Throughout this We Need To Tell You
What the Stuff Is, How it Becomes a Hazardous Waste, but the Real
Important Thing Is for the Managers to Figure Out, Then, How Do I Get It
out of the Hazardous Waste Program. Here with the Fuel Tanks We Just
Looked At, the Number One Defense Is Don\'t Store Your Stuff, Manage
Your Stuff That Way So it Becomes Waste to Start With. Then If it Does
Become a Waste, Then You Need to Figure Out, Is There a Way to Send it
Back and Get it Recycled. So There Are Ways to Get out of This Program.
The next Part of Ignitability Relates to Nonliquid Spontaneous Fire
Hazards and Here We Have Some Old Dynamite ‑‑

K. Morin: Those Are Fuse Ease.

M. Thrasher: Right. Thank You. The next Type of Ignitable Hazardous
Waste Is Our Ignitable Compressed Gases. Now, Here in this Image We\'ve
Got Virgin Gases Here That Are Suitable for Use. So the Rules Certainly
Don\'t Apply to Them. The Hazardous Waste Rules Don\'t Apply to Them.
But If for Some Reason These Became Waste, Then They Would Be Ignitable
Hazardous Waste. And Lastly, I Want to Mention Oxidizers. You See Here
the Label Has an Oxidizer. If You Are Having to Throw Away An Oxidizer,
Then That\'s Going To Be an Ignitable Hazardous Waste. Now, this Is
Interesting. I\'m Not as Acquainted with This, And I Think Ken Maybe You
Can Explain What These Are Here.

K. Morin: Those Are the the Ping‑pong Balls That the Fire Program Uses.
. They Have Potassium Manage Nate In Them If That You Wanted to Throw
Them Away, Could Not Find Anybody to Use Them, You Would Have to
Manifest Them out as a Hazardous Waste.

M. Thrasher: Let\'s Go to the Second Characteristic, and That\'s
Reactivity or Reactive Hazardous Wastes and it Basically Is Defined as
Anything That Is Unstable, Reacts Violently with Water, Explosives Are
Included in This, and Anything That Would Have an Explosive Reaction If
You Drop It or Hit It. I Think, Ken, You\'ve Got Some Illustrations of
That.

K. Morin: Also Included in The Definition of Reactive Wastes Are
Anything That Can Explode When Heated upon Confinement and Probably the
Best Example Is Aerosol Cans. This Flammable Storage Cabinet Is Sitting
Outside in the Hot Sun on Asphalt and Aerosol Cans Generally Have a
Flash Point of Less than Gasoline and this One Has a Flash Point of
minus 160 Degrees Fahrenheit. Example, Gasoline\'s Flash Point Is minus
38 Degrees Fahrenheit. So When They Get Heated, Even in A Flammable
Storage Cabinet, You Can See the Bulge on this Can. This One Is Ready to
Pop. This Has Happened. I Teach Hazardous Waste Courses Over the Country
and One of the Courses I Taught Was for the Forest Service and this
Green Pickup Truck Has Tree Marking Paint in the Back of It. It Was
Sitting out in the Lot, And the Case of Tree Marking Paint, One of the
Cans Blew. This Paint Traveled Quite a Distance. The Forest Service Had
to Wind Up Having to Buff out or Repaint A Couple Vehicles. Just to Show
You this Paint on This Bumper and on the Hood of This Car. So When You
Have a Partially Full Can of Tree Marking Paint, The Nozzle Got Clogged,
Et Cetera, You Can\'t Just Be Throwing it in the Trash. It Is a Waste.
You\'re Going to Have to Deal With the Regulatory Agency to See If ‑‑
How You Have to Proper Will He Manage It, and If They Say Because of the
Small Volume You Have You Can Throw it in the Trash, That Would Be
Acceptable, But in Most Cases, Particularly If You Have a Large Tree
Marking Program and I Realize Those Have Gone down Quite a Bit, You
Probably Are Going to Have to Buy a Can Popper and Handle the Waste That
Way. Martin, Back to You.

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Ken. The next ‑‑ or the Third Characteristic That I
Wanted to Mention to You Is Called Corrosivity or Corrosiveness.
Anything ‑‑ Any Liquid That Has A Ph of less than or Equal to 2, And
Those Are Your ‑‑ a Lot of Your Acids, Is a Corrosive Hazardous Waste,
and Here on This Slide You Can See These Are Acids. So If You Had to
Throw Those Away, You Would Have to Check to Make Sure the Ph Was 2 or
Above ‑‑ or above 2 or Else it Would Be a Corrosive Hazardous Waste. The
Other Rule Associated with Corrosivity Is That Any Liquid With a Ph of
12 1/2 or above Is Going to Be a Corrosive Hazardous Waste. It\'s Not
Very Often That You Run Onto this Sort of Material in The Field. I Have
Had One in My Entire Experience. So Those Are Fairly Rare. Now, the
Fourth and Probably the Most Important Characteristic That We Look for
Is the Toxicity Characteristic and You Will Notice in Your Screen That
it Mentions Toxicity Characteristic Leaching Procedure or Tclp. The
Toxicity Characteristic Leaching Procedure Is a Very Specific Test,
Laboratory Test, That You Send a Sample to the Lab and They Test it for
Certain Metals and Pesticides and Organics, and If it Meets One of The
Limitations, Then It\'s Going To Be a Toxic or Tclp Hazardous Waste.
This One Is a Rather Complicated Definition, but the Tclp Rule Provides
That There Are Eight Different Metals, and If Certain Concentrations of
Those Metals Are Found in Wastes, Then the Waste Is Going to Be a
Hazardous Waste. The Metals, as You Can See Here Are Arsenic, Barium,
Cadmium, Chromium ‑‑ by the Way, It\'s a Specific Valance. Chromium, but
That\'s a Lot of Detail, Lead, Mercury, Selenium And Silver. So If Any
of Those Are in a Waste in a Certain Concentration, It\'s Going to Be A
Hazardous Waste. Now, in Addition to That, There Are Six Pesticides and
25 Organics That Can Be a Toxic Hazardous Waste. So You Can\'t Guess
about These. The Only Way to Know Is Really To Send Them in for
Laboratory Tests or Take an Evaluation from A Materials Safety Data
Sheet or Some Other Knowledge You Have Got of the Material.

F. Mills: Let\'s Take a Look At an Example of Something That You Might
See in the Field Where You May Have to Test for Hazardous Waste. Most of
You Recognize This. This Is Our Standard Vehicle Wash Area, and You
Notice That There\'s a Some That. We Wash the Vehicle. The Dirt and
Things off the Engine, off the Sides of the Vehicle Go into a Sump Where
It\'s Collected for Later Use. Now, How Do You Know this Is a Hazardous
Waste? Or Do You Even Know That It\'s a Hazardous Waste? Well, this Is
Something That You\'re Going to Have to Take a Sample of or Have ‑‑
Really Have A Lab Come out and Pull the Sample Because it Has to Be Done
In a Specific Way. Have That Sample Analyzed to See If it Meets the
Criteria of the Toxicity Characteristic. So this ‑‑ These Areas Are
Places Where We Wouldn\'t Even Think Maybe That We Have a Hazardous
Waste, but You Do Have To Look at That and Say, Before I Throw this
Away, or Allow it To Go into the Sewer System, Then I Need to Make Sure
That it Is Not a Hazardous Waste and the Only Way to Do Is That Testing.
Now, in this Photograph We Have A Picture of Pesticides. Now, It\'s
Important to Know That Martin Said There\'s Only a Few Pesticides That
Are Actually Listed as Hazardous Wastes. These Are Things That You
Really Need to Look at and Have ‑‑ You Can Read Here on the Msds, and It
Will Tell You That Product That That Pesticide Is and Whether or Not it
Is One of Those Listed Wastes. In Picture You Can See the Bags Are
Broken, Rodents Have Nested On Top of the Bags of Pesticide. This Is
Definitely Something You May Consider Having to Throw Away. You Need to
Find out If this Is Not on That List One of Those Six Pesticides. Thank
You, Martin.

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Frank. Well, That\'s about it on the Four
Characteristics. They\'re Very Simple but They\'re Very Important to
Know About. If You Have Any Questions about Them, I Sure Encourage You
to Call In. Now, One of the Things You May Have Noticed, There Are Lots
of Things We Haven\'t Mentioned Here. We Haven\'t Mentioned Radioactive
Materials. We Haven\'t Mentioned Pauley Chlorinated Bfenols, We Haven\'t
Mentioned Asbestos Materials, Radon Gas. There Are Lots of Other Highly
Regulated Commodities That We Haven\'t Mentioned Here and the Reason Is
That They\'re Not Regulated under the Hazardous Waste Program. They\'re
‑‑ There Are Regulations Elsewhere in Other Programs. Again, I Can\'t
Stress this Enough, the Reason for Making That Distinction Is the Rules
Are Different. You Cannot Follow These Rules For Things That Are Not in
this Program and Vice Versa. That\'s a Violation of the Law. So with
That, Tony, What I Would Like to Do Is Turn it Back to You to See If We
Have Any Questions or Faxes.

T. Garrett: We Do Have the Green Light on and I Understand That the
Telephone Bridges for The Push‑to‑talk for the U.s. Fish

&

wildlife Service, the National Park Service and the BLM Are All up and
Operating. So Now Is the Time to Push to Talk If You Would like to Get
in Touch with the Panel Here and If You Have a Questions or a Comment
about the Material We Have Covered Thus Far. Let\'s Pause Just a Moment
and See If We Have Anyone Checking In with Us. I Hear a Little Traffic
on the Bridge. I\'m Sorry, Someone from the Park Service, Would You
Repeat That? All Right. Let\'s Go to a Fax That Was Sent In Just a
Couple of Minutes Ago. This Is from the BLM State Office in Portland and
the Question Is: Has Any BLM Facility Been Fined, Emphasis on Fined, by
Epa or a State since The Beginning of the Cashe Reviews? Ken?

K. Morin: Fortunately, Can I Say No, That\'s Never Happened. We Have
Been Inspected at Least Eight Times by Federal and State Agencies and in
All Cases We\'ve Never Even Gotten a Notice of Violation. They\'ve Found
Things Wrong, but We Were Actually ‑‑ Actively Correcting Them.

T. Garrett: Thank You, Ken.

M. Thrasher: Let Me Just Share a Story from My Experience Because I
Wasn\'t Involved with The Federal Agencies, but My Company Started an
Audit ‑‑ Environmental Audit Program in 1985, and until I Left There 14
Years Later, We Had One Fine of \$250 During That Period. So the
Environmental Audit Programs Work. Doesn\'t Mean You\'re Going to Find
Everything. Sometimes the Regulators Find Things but They Love it When
You\'re Working with Them.

K. Morin: We Are Going to Be Talking about Our Auditing Programs in
Module 6. One Thing I Would like to Mention 6 and Maybe this Is Why
We\'re Not Getting Questions, No One on this Panel Expects a Manage or
Anyone That Doesn\'t Use the Hazardous Waste Regs on A Daily Basis to
Know How to Do A Waste Determination. It\'s Way Too Complex. All We\'re
Trying to Do Here Is Raise Your Awareness So You Can Make an Intelligent
Decision or Ask an Intelligent Question. Is this Operation Going to
Result in Us Generating a Waste? What Is That Waste? Is it Potentially
Hazardous? If You Do Have a Question, There\'s Plenty of Staff, Whether
It Be at Your Regional Office, Your State Office. That\'s Why Frank and
I Have Jobs. Give Us a Call. Contact Us Through Your Local Hazardous
Material Environmental Coordinator.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Pause Again And Invite Anyone in the Audience to Push
to Talk If You Have a Question or a Comment for Our Panel Today.

Caller: Yes, this Is William From Ozark.

T. Garrett: Yes, William. Go Ahead.

Caller: Martin Mentioned Under the Ignitables Three Types. Could You Go
over Those Again? I\'m Missing One. I Have Compressed Gases and
Oxidizers. What Was the Third?

K. Morin: It\'s Anything with A Flash Point less than 140 Degrees.

T. Garrett: Did You Get That William?

K. Morin: I Should Say a Liquid with a Flash Point less Than 140
Degrees, Not a Solid.

Caller: I Got That ‑‑ but Followed up ‑‑

M. Thrasher: You Should Have Four of Them. You Should Have Four of Them
in Your Notes. One Is a Liquid with a Flash Point under 140 Degrees
Fahrenheit, Second One Would Be A Nonliquid That\'s a Spontaneous Fire
Hazard ‑‑

K. Morin: an Example of That Would Be Ground up Heavy Metals.

M. Thrasher: Right. Like Magnesium. The Third One Would Be Ignitable
Compressed Gases. The Fourth One Would Be Oxidizers.

K. Morin: What the Reg Says ‑‑

Caller: That\'s What I Needed.

K. Morin: What the Reg Says In Regard to Oxidizers Is That It Has to Be
a Dot ‑‑ If Dot Calls it an Oxidizers and You Want to Get Rid of It,
It\'s a Hazardous Waste.

T. Garrett: Thanks for Checking in with Us Again, William. Let\'s Pause
One More Time and See If There Are Any Questions. If There Are, Just
Push That Button and Check in with Us. Martin, I Have a Question for You
and Ken and Frank. We Do Have Viewers in Offices Throughout the Country
from William in the Ozarks, People on The East Coast. We Have the U.s.
Fish

&

wildlife Service Watching from Minneapolis, People in Washington State
and Yellowstone Al Bright Training Center. With this Dispersed Audience
Are The Kinds of Haz‑mat Issues That People in Our Audience Are Dealing
With, Do They Vary from Region to Region?

F. Mills: by like to Answer One Thing. Really the Thing about Haz‑mat
That\'s Most Important Is That The Programs Are Run by the States. Epa
Has Authorized the States to Enforce the Rcra Programs. So the
Differences Is Really What Your State Tells You. That\'s Why We Keep
Saying, You Need to Contact Your State Authority Before You Make a
Decision Determining Hazardous Waste, Because They\'re the Ones Who
Really Enforce this at the Ground Level. Epa\'s Broadbrush Program
Covers Pretty Much Everything Nationally, and You Can Consider If
You\'re Following the Epa Program You Have a Good Basis, But You Need to
Contact Each Individual State. Martin?

M. Thrasher: Yeah, I Think in Direct Response to the Question About Are
There Different Represent Hazardous Waste Issues, I Think it Depends
More On the Type of Operation at the Facility Rather than Where It\'s
Located. I Worked in Industry for Many Years and We Had Maintenance
Facilities, and it Doesn\'t Matter Whether You\'re Running a Maintenance
Facility for an Industry or for a Federal Agency, You Are Going to Have
The Same Types of Hazardous Wastes That You\'re Generating Basically the
Same Types of Issues. Same with Water Treatment Plants. You Get
Hazardous Wastes from Water Treatment Plants. It Really Doesn\'t Matter
the Ownership Because the Types of Facilities Operations Are Pretty Much
the Same.

T. Garrett: Again, We Invite Our Viewing Audience to Check in With Us
Now. This Is a Good Time to Ask Questions or Comments or Share
Information about Issues You\'ve Dealt with There at Your Field Office.
So Please Feel Free to Push the Button and Get in Touch with Us. One of
the Questions That Came In Earlier Is This: We Have an Old Gasoline Tank
That Was Not Removed by the County When Camp Was Closed Some 40 Years
Ago. How Should this Be Handled? Who Has Some Thoughts on That One.

K. Morin: I\'ll Take It. If You Have an Underground Storage Tank and You
Haven\'t Removed it Yet, You Have to Contact Your State You Have to
Notify Them at Least ‑‑ I Think It\'s 30 Days Before You Take Any Action
to Remove That Tank. Once it Is Removed, You\'re Going To Have to Go
Through a Formal Closure Process with Them and Get a Closure Letter from
the State. When We Do Audits, I Always Ask, Have You Removed Any Tanks?
And What I Typically Find Is That, Yes, They Have, and Three Quarters of
the Time They Do Have the Documentation from the State, but There\'s
Always That 25% Where, No, We Just Dug it up Ourselves with the Backhoe
and We Got Rid of the Tank Because It Was Empty, No Big Deal. Without
That Closure Letter, You Haven\'t Formally Removed the Tanks in
Accordance with State And Epa Regs.

M. Thrasher: Let Me Comment On That. It Kind of Lends Itself to a
Broader Question about What Happens If I Have Blown the Room Someplace?
I Find out I Made an Error. I Didn\'t Follow Some Rule. I Didn\'t Make
Some Notice, I Didn\'t Apply to the State for Some Permit. I Can Tell
You from Years of Experience, If You Have Blown One of the Rules, Be
Straightforward with It. You Go to Your Solicitor\'s Office, Talk to
Them about It, You Get Your Hazardous Materials Experts Onboard and Then
Eventually You All Traipse up to The State or Whatever the Regulatory
Agency Is and You Tell Them What the Problem Is And Try to Work Through
It, and My Experience Is, for the Most Part, They\'re Going to Cooperate
And Work Through it with You, Because You Brought it Forward. For the
Most Part.

T. Garrett: All Right. Thanks, Martin. We\'re Coming up on Our Break.
I\'ll Ask One More Time If There Is Anyone in the Audience Who Has a
Question at this Time That We Need to Address Before We Take a Break.
We\'ll Pause Just a Moment. All Right, If Not, Then at this Point We
Will Take a 15‑minute Break. When We Come Back, We\'ll Pick Things One a
Discussion about Hazardous Waste Generators, and We\'ll Also Cover
Federal Solid Waste Regulations, Special Wastes, Solid Wastes and
Storage Tanks, and We\'re Going to Have This Week\'s Version of Our Game
\"The Hazmat Challenge.\" You Definitely Don\'t Want to Miss That. So
There\'s Lots More Coming up In Our Second Segment of Today\'s Program.
We\'ll See You Back Here in 15 Minutes!

T. Garrett: Hello Fenn and Welcome Back to the Manager\'s Tool Kit for
Environmental Compliance and Pollution Prevention, Module 2. With Us
Again for this Segment Are Frank Mills of the Forest Service, Ken Morin
of the BLM And Our Lead Instructor Martin Thrasher. Before We Pick
Things up Again We Would like to Mention Some Upcoming Telecasts in That
Module 3 on Thursday February 21st We Will Talk about Epcra And Special
Pollution Management. Next Month We\'ll Present Module 4 on March 7th
Covering the Issues of Safety, Dot and Fifra. On March 14th We Will Be
Broadcasting Module 5 Covering The Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act,
Safe Drinking Water Act and Spill Prevention Planning. Our Final
Telecast Will Air on Thursday March 21st When We Will Explore
Environmental Management Systems and Take a Look at Your Agency Audit
Programs for Safety, Health and Environmental Compliance. On Thursday,
February 28th, We\'ll Be Broadcasting a BLM Course on Safety for
Supervisors. So Please Mark Your Calendars For These Training Events Pap
We Look Forward to Your Participation. With Those Commercials out of The
Way. Let\'s Go Back to Martin and a Discussion on Generators. Martin?

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Tony. Yes, to Conclude this Section on Hazardous
Waste and Rcra, We Need to Talk about Generators For Just a Few Minutes.
First of All, it Often ‑‑ I\'m Often Asked, Well, What Do You Mean When
You Say a Generator? Generator Is a Defined Term. It Means a Person or
Facility Whose Act or Process Creates the Hazardous Waste. So If You\'re
Working in a Maintenance Facility or Wareyard Or out in the Field and
There\'s Something That You\'ve Done to Create or Generate the Hazardous
Waste, Then You Are a Generator. Now, There Are Three Different Classes
of Hazardous Waste Generators. The Reason That We Care about Hazardous
Waste Generator Staat Us Is That the Status Drives the Regulations That
You Have to Follow at Your Facility. The less Hazardous Waste That You
Generate, the Fewer Rules That You Have to Follow. Let\'s Take a Quick
Look at the Three Different Levels of Hazardous Waste Generator. The
First Generator Status Is Called Conditionally Exempt Small Quantity
Generator. A Conditionally Exempt Small Quantity Generator, Sometimes
Abbreviated Cesqg S a Person or Facility That Generates and We Need to
Go Back to the Conditionally Exempt Small Quantity Generator Slide If
You Could. That\'s a Person or Facility That Generates less than 100
Kilograms per Month of a Hazardous Waste. Now, Notice That the
Measurement Is in Kilograms, Which Is about 2.2 Pounds. So We\'re
Talking about 220 Pounds over a Monthly Period. The Other Thing That I
Wanted to Point out Is That You Are Generator Stat Us Is Determined On a
Monthly, a Calendar Month, Weighing of the Wastes You Generate. You Go
from the First of the Month to the End of the Month. It\'s Not a 30‑day
Period. It\'s Not a Running Average. It\'s an Actual Calendar Month
Period. That\'s the First Level of Generator Status. If You Are Going to
Be a Generator Who Has this Waste You Want to Be a Conditionally Exempt
Generator Because That Has the Fewest Rules. Now, the Second Level of
Generator Is Called the Small Quantity Generator or Sqg. That\'s a
Facility That Generates Between 100 and a Thousand Kilograms per Month
of Hazardous Waste. Now, I Should Mention Again, as I Just Alluded to a
Little Bit Earlier about Acute Hazardous Waste. We\'re Not Covering That
in Detail in this Program. But Acute Hazardous Waste Has Special Rules
Associated with Them, So If You Do Get an Acute Hazardous Waste, the
Threshold Quantities Are at 1 Kilogram per Month, Which Is Only 2.2
Pounds. So That\'s Significant. You Certainly Need to Talk to Your
Hazardous Materials Coordinator about That. Now, the Last Class of
Generator Is Actually in the Regulatory Sense Called Generator. Loft
Times We Call it Large Quantity Generator Just for the Sake of
Distinguishing it from The Other Two Classes. But this Is a Facility
That Generates over 1,000 Kilograms Of Hazardous Waste in a Month, In a
Calendar Month. I Think with That Introduction, Ken, What I Would like
to Do Is Turn it over to You for a Little More Discussion about
Generators.

K. Morin: You May Be Asking Yourself, Why Do I Have to Worry About This?
We Don\'t Generate Hazardous Waste. We Contract Our out Our Vehicle
Maintenance. We Contract out this That and The Other Thing. What I Want
to Show Is How You Could Become Regulated. This Commonly Happens
Throughout BLM Facilities. We Have Done Audits at Every BLM Facility in
the Country. We Are Actually Doing Follow‑ups Out In. Only One of Our
Facilities Is a Small Quantity Generator. Everybody Else Was
Conditionally Exempt. But During Audits We Find Enough Excess Hazardous
Materials, Drums like This, That Nobody Knows What They Are. It\'s
Labeled Flammable. You Can See the Deteriorated Label Martin Circled.
It\'s Flammable but No One Knows What it Is. Some Sort of Asphalt Type
Product. It\'s Got ‑‑ Who Knows What the Flash Point Is. The Fact It\'s
Labeled Flammable, It\'s Probably a Hazardous Waste. It\'s Tough to
Convince a Regulator That What\'s in the Drums like These Is a it a
Product or Not. Here\'s Example, Same Wareyard And this Drum Is Holding
Something, No One Knew What it Was, and There\'s ‑‑ the Contents Of the
Drum Is Leaking Back Out. Whatever Was in it Was Corrosive Enough. It
Could Have Just Been Water, But What Every Regulator, Whether it Be
Conditionally Exempt or Full‑blown Large Quantity Generator, Has to Do
Is Do a Waste Determination. You Have to Know Whether Your Solid Waste
Is a Hazardous Waste. So When Epa Does an Inspection And They See a
Bunch of Unknown Drums, at a Minimum They Could Cite You for Not Doing a
Waste Determination. Some Other Examples of Drums. Here\'s Another One
with Some Unknown Petroleum Product in and It Again When Someone Says,
Well, We Don\'t Have to Worry About It, it Was a Bituminous Type
Product, It\'s Not Flammable, I Can Hold it in My Hand, When They Test
for Flash Point, That\'s a Close Cut Test That Little Bit of Liquid or
That Sludgy Product Is Put in a Closed up and It\'s Heated in
Confinement and If the Vapors Ignite at less than 140 Degrees It Becomes
a Hazardous Waste. A Lot of Things You Don\'t Think Will Be Hazardous
Waste Will Test Hazardous Because of That Test. Going out to the Rest of
the Wareyard, You See a Nice Neat Wareyard, Everything Is Stacked Up,
It\'s on Pallets and You Start Walking in the Weeds Behind Some of the
Pallets and You See More Containers. Again, this Is the Same Facility.
To Be Conditionally Exempt You Have to Have less than 28 Gallons in a
Month. We\'ve Already Seen a Couple 55‑gallon Drums. These 5‑gallon
Containers, They Contain Silvex. You Can See Where the Plastic Started
to Deteriorate. You Say, What\'s the Big Deal About That? The Flash
Point of it If You Look at the Msda and ‑‑ S, the Flash Point Is ‑‑ 104
Degrees, Same Flash Point as Diesel Fuel. Silvex When Frozen it Becomes
Unusable, it Becomes Lumpy and The Back of the Containers Has Storage
Requirements on It. It Says Minimum Storage Temperature of 35 Degrees.
The Inspector Comes out and You\'re Trying to Say That\'s Still Product,
and the Inspector Knows It\'s Been out Here Long Enough for the
Containers to Dry Rot, and They Have Been Frozen Several Times, They Are
Going to Say this Isn\'t Product. You Can\'t Use It. It\'s Waste. You
Have Magically Gone over the 28 Gallon Threshold. When We Are Doing Odd
and its I Think, Fran, You Will Agree with This, We Find Enough Legacy
Waste, Stuff That\'s Been There 20 or 30 Years, That They Become
Regulated.

F. Mills: Exactly. It\'s Really Not What They\'re Doing Every Day So
Much as the Stuff That They Have Stashed Behind the Buildings That\'s
Really Causing Them to Change That Generator Status.

K. Morin: the Key Really Is If You Can Store it Right and Only Buy What
You\'re Going to Use, You Probably Always Will Be Conditionally Exempt,
Which Is What You Want to Be. Martin, Back to You.

M. Thrasher: One of the Things I Have Noticed in the Field Is That
People Don\'t Understand When They Allow Some Of These Virgin Products
to Sit Out in the Field, the Containers Deteriorate and it Leaks out
Onto the Ground, That That Constitutes Disposal of That Particular
Product, and Then You Have to Determine If it Was an Unlawful Disposal
of Hazardous Wastes. If You Allow Anything to Escape Into the
Environment, to Leak, You Pump It, You Pour It, You Allow it to Leak on
the Ground, That Constitutes Disposal of the Waste. Yet, to Make That
Determination Whether or Not it Was Legal.

K. Morin: Another Refinement Is Someone Will Open up All the Containers
of Excess Paint, Whether it Be Tree Marking Paint, and They Allow to it
Evaporate. That\'s Considered Treatment of An Hazardous Waste and You
Have To Have a Permit to Do That.

F. Mills: One Thing Further I Would like to Mention about the Issue Just
Because a Product Is Old Doesn\'t Mean it Has to Be Called Waste. We
Were at a Facility in Utah, And They Had a Can, Five Gallon Can,
Containing Lynne Seed Oil That Was Actually Purchased in 1928. That
Linseed Oil, Even Though The Can Was Old and Looked Rusty, it Was a Good
Product and They Had a Legitimate Use for It. They Would Use it to Work
on Their Leather Products for Their Mules and Horses. So You Can\'t
Really Just Say It\'s Old, You Have to Throw it Away. You Have to Look
At, Do You Really Have a Legitimate Use and Can the Product Still Be
Used.

M. Thrasher: I\'m Wondering If We Have Any Questions or Comments about
Generator Status. So If You Have Your Push‑to‑talk On There, You\'re
Welcome to Do That. Hopefully You Will. I Am Always Amazed When I Go to
Some Facilities and They Say, What\'s Your Hazardous Waste Generator
Status? And Somebody Will Say, I Don\'t Know. That\'s Kind of a Clue
That They Don\'t Have a Management System In Place Because You Ought to
Know What Your Status Is. Another Common Response, Which Is a Little
Disturbing, Is to Say, I\'m a Conditionally Exempt Small Quantity
Generator. I Say, How Do You Know That? They Say, Well, Because the Home
Office Told Me That\'s What I Was. Well, Quite Frankly, That\'s Not How
You Determine Whether or Not What Your Generator Status Is.

K. Morin: That\'s a Great Point Because the Regulation Specifically Say
for a Conditionally Exempt Generator They Have to Have Documentation To
Proof Their Generator Status, Which Means a Generator Log. Another
Common Thing That We Find Is That You\'ve Accumulated All this Stuff
Because You Don\'t Know What to Do with It. I Am Going to Give You
Briefly Three Recommendations Related to That. See If You Can Find
Somebody Else to Use It. If You Can\'t Find Anybody Else To Use It, Kit
Be Recycled? Last but Not Least, Can You Participate in a Household
Hazardous Waste Collection Program? Most Cities and Counties in the
United States Have One. Not All of Them, Though, Will Allow You to
Participate. You Have to Check with Them. Don\'t Drive up in Your Own
Personal Rig with Government Stuff. Check with Them, If They\'ll Take It
from a Governmental Entity, Great, Bring to it Them. It\'s Typically
Around \$5 a Gallon. Which Is Relatively Cheap to Get Rid of the Small
Quantities of Waste You May Have. That\'s Probably Your Best Option If
You Can\'t Find Anybody Else To Use it for You.

M. Thrasher: Do We Have Any Questions about Generator Status? It\'s Very
Important Because There Are Significant Differences in the Rules Between
The Conditionally Exempt Small Quantity Generator, the Small Quantity
Generator and the Generator Status. The Rules Are Substantially Tiff
Rent. The Other Thing I Have Found, at Least in Colorado and I\'m Sure
It\'s the Same Elsewhere, the Regulatory Agencies Target Inspections of
the Large Quantity Generators More than They Do the Conditionally
Exempt. The More You Can Drive Yourself Down, the less Attention You\'re
Going to Get from the Regulators.

F. Mills: and Also, Martin, Regulators Tend to Now Focus Multimedia
Teams When They Go Out. It Can Happen That They\'re out There for a
Totally Different Reason, and They Can See Something, like Drums Behind
a Building, and Take an Action, Even Though That Team Might Have Been
out There for a Water Issue. They Can Call Back to Their Office and Say,
Listen, We Need To Get out Here and Look at This. We Find Ourselves in
That Trap Quite Often Where the Regulators Are Really Looking at Another
Issue but Bring up Rcra as a Point.

M. Thrasher: Let Me Just Mention a Few Other Management Techniques.

Caller: this Is Kate from Virginia.

T. Garrett: We Have Kate. Go Ahead with That Question.

Caller: Could You Clarify the 28 Gallon Threshold Versus the Kilogram
Threshold That You Were Talking about Earlier?

K. Morin: Sure. I Wasted 28 Gallons on the Fact That Gasoline Weighs
about 6.2 Pounds a Gallon and 28 Times 6.2 Breaks the 100 Cal Gram or
the 220 Pounds. Gasoline Is the Lightest Flammable Liquid That We
Typically Use in Land Management Agencies. So That\'s Where ‑‑ I Just
Was Simplifying the Math. Sorry about That. 28 Gallons Would Equate to
100 Kilograms.

M. Thrasher: the Regulations Speak in Terms of Kilograms, and So the
Technical People Do That. But for Field People, It\'s a Lot Better to
Translate it to Gallons Because We Can Visualize And Work with That a
Little Better.

K. Morin: What I Tend to Tell The Field Is, If You Have over Half a Drum
of an Unknown Material and You Were to Get Inspected, Epa Could Again
Cite You for Not Doing a Waste Determination. Fit Turns out to Be
Hazardous Waste, Then They Could Say, You\'re a Small Quantity Generator
and You Are Fully Regulated. That\'s Happened to Several Doi Agencies
That Got Six‑figure Fines Proposed to Them Because Of Improper
Management of Materials.

T. Garrett: Kate, Does That Answer Your Question?

Caller: Yes, Thank You.

T. Garrett: And, Kate, Tell Us Which Office You\'re Calling From,
Please.

Caller: I\'m with the National Park Service, Prince William Forest Park.

T. Garrett: Thank You. We\'ve Heard from Several of the National Park
Service\'s Offices That Are Watching Today. We Haven\'t Yet Heard from
the U.s. Fish

&

wildlife Service or Any of the BLM Sites. So We Certainly Invite Either
BLM, Fish

&

wildlife Service to Check in with Us. If You Have Any Questions. If You
Don\'t Have Any Questions, You May Want to Share with the Others in the
Viewing Audience Anything That Has to Do with Your Own Success in
Reducing Your Generator Status or the Amount of Waste That You Generate
There in Your Office. Anyone from the BLM, Fish

&

wildlife Service or the National Park Service?

Caller: Peter at Albright Training Center.

T. Garrett: Yes, Peter, Please Go Ahead.

Caller: If You Have Been a Conditionally Exempt Small Quantity Generator
for Quite Some Time and You Do Go over for One or Two Months, How Long
Does It Take Before You Can Go Back Down to Being Conditionally Exempt?

F. Mills: I Would like to Answer That Question for You. One of the
Things That ‑‑ It\'s Done by a Calendar Month. So During That Calendar
Month That You Went over the Status, You Have to Maintain the Higher
Status. For Instance, If You\'re Conditionally Exempt and You Become a
Small Quantity Generator, That Month ‑‑ Let\'s Say You Started on the
15th of The Month. You Would Have to Stay in Small Quantity Status until
the 30th Or the 31st, and at That Point, If That Waste Is out of Your
Facility and Not Being Stored There, Then You Would Revert Right Back to
Your Original Small Quantity Generator Status. So It\'s Based on a
Monthly Total, Not a Certain Amount of Days. Now, Another Area Where You
Guys Get into Problems Is Let\'s Say ‑‑ You\'re a Conditionally Exempt
Generator and One of the Rangers out in the Field Find Three Drums That
Somebody Dropped off out in the Field. You Certainly Do Not Want to Use
Your Stat Us to Get Rid of Those Drums. What You Need to Do Now Is Get a
Special Permitted Emergency Number for the Site Where the Drums Are.
Ken, Would You Address That a Little Bit? You Deal with That.

K. Morin: That\'s a Good Point. The Facilities I Talked about Earlier
That Got Inspected by The State Agency, They Were Inspected Because They
Had Been Cleaning up Some Dump Sites on The Public Lands, and They Were
Using the Epad Number That Was Assigned to Their Facility Itself and
When the Regulator Started Seeing All the Waste Coming out of the
Facility That Was Supposedly Conditionally Exempt, They Said, We\'re in
the Area, Let\'s Go and Inspect Them. And That Triggered It. And What it
Really Turned out to Be Was a Mistake. They Were Using the Wrong Epa D
Number, it Appeared to the Regulators They Were Now a Large Quantity
Generator When in Fact They Weren\'t. So You Definitely Want to Make
Sure You Are Getting Separate Epa D Numbers for Those Cleanups On the
Public Land.

T. Garrett: Peter, Does That Answer Your Question?

Caller: Yes, it Does. Thank You.

M. Thrasher: I Wanted to Add Something about That. It\'s a Real Problem
for Managers. Let Me Just Illustrate it Here Real Briefly on this
Camera, Except this Pen Is ‑‑ That Pen Isn\'t Working for Me. I\'ll Go
with One That Is. You Can Actually Float ‑‑ Let\'s Say this Is January.
There We Go. Let\'s Say That this Is January And You\'re a Conditionally
Exempt Small Quantity Generator Touring January and Then You\'re Doing
Some Activities Whereby You Generate More Hazardous Waste the next
Month, February. You Can Be a Small Quantity Generator and Then Whatever
You\'re Doing in March, You Generate More, and You Can Be a Generator
and You Can Float from Month to Month as to Your Generator Status. Well,
this Makes it Impossible To Manage Because You Can\'t Train Your People,
Ok N January You Follow These Rules, February You Follow These Rules,
March You Follow These Rules. So as a Practical Matter, What You Want to
Do Is Reduce Your Generator Status Down, Well, Hopefully to Zero So
You\'re Not A Generator at All. But to Keep it Fairly Consistent So You
Train Your People as to One Set of Rules That They Have To Follow. The
Employees Cannot Follow a System Where They\'re Changing From Month to
Month. It Doesn\'t Work.

T. Garrett: Peter, Thanks for Checking in with Us. And We\'ll Pause Now
and See If There Are Any Other Offices That Would like to Push to Talk
and Get in Touch with Us Before We Move on in the Program. We\'ll Pause
for Just a Moment. I Think What We\'re Discovering Is Because of the
Slight Delay In Getting That up to the Satellite and Back, We Need to
Pause Just a Little Longer to Make Sure These Folks Have Time To Push to
Talk. Any Other Questions from the Field? All Right. Martin, Have We
Finished with That Part Your Presentation?

M. Thrasher: Yes. Well, the Final Thing I Want to Just Alert People to
Is That There\'s No Way to Accidentally Be in Compliance with These Very
Complex, Hazardous Waste Rules. You\'ve Got to Have Some Kind of
Management System in Place to Make it Work. Because It\'s Just Too
Complex. So I Think with That What I Would like to Do Is Turn the
Program over to Tony for the Infamous \"Hazmat Challenge.\"

the Infame Us and Long Awaited ‑‑ Time Now Again to Test Your Knowledge
and Understanding of What We\'ve Covered So Far. With Our Game Show
\"Hazmat Challenge.\" Back by Popular Demand. Here Is How it Works,
Using the Board on Your Screen, Based on Tic‑tac‑toe, Our Competing
Teams Will Take Turns Selecting a Square. And Answering the Question
Behind That Square. Answer Correctly and Claim the Square. The Team to
Claim Three Squares Horizontally, Vertically or Diagonally Will Be the
Winner. We\'ll Ask Martin to Be Our Judge In Case of Any Question about
The Accuracy of the Answers Presented. Here\'s What You Will Be
Competing for in this Round of \"Hazmat Challenge.\" Again, It\'s a
Beautiful Pen Provided by the BLM Utah State Office Commemorating the
2002 Winter Olympic Games. Wear it Proudly. Today We\'re Going to Change
the Rules a Little Bit from Last Time. We\'re Going to Divide Our
Viewing Audience into Two Teams. Everyone East of the Continental Divide
Will Be on Team East. And All of You West of the Continental Divide Will
Be on Team West. So Now It\'s Time to Play \"Hazmat Challenge.\" And We
Do Want to Mention Alaska, We\'re Counting You ‑‑ You\'ll Be on the West
Team, Even Though, Strangely Enough, the Continental Divide Goes up
Across the Northern Part of the Alaska, Which Would Make the ‑‑ Much of
the North Slope of Alaska, Dead Horse, Prude Hoe Bay, Those Areas, East
of the Continental Divide. But for the Sake of this Game We Are Going to
Count All of Alaska In the Western Viewing Area and In the Team West.
But Right Now We\'re Going to Go With Team East and Invite Anyone From
the Fish

&

wildlife Service, the National Park Servicer the Bureau of Land
Management Who Is Watching from A Site East of the Continental Divide,
Push the Button on Your Microphone and Check in with Us. During the
First Part of Our Program ‑‑

Caller: this Is William from Ozark.

T. Garrett: Ok, William, Thanks for Checking in with Us. You Are the
First Caller. Please Select a Square and Get Ready for \"The Hazmat
Challenge.\"

Caller: Let\'s Go for 1.

T. Garrett: Square Number 1. William, Strict Liability Means\... A.
Liability with Fault. B. Liability Without Fault. C. Never Having to Say
You\'re Sorry. William, You Have 15 Seconds.

Caller: A.

T. Garrett: William Says the Answer Is A. Oh, William, I\'m Sorry, That
Is Incorrect. Strict Liability Means Liability Without Fault. So That\'s
‑‑ Square Number 1 Is Still Open. We Will Go to the West Now and Invite
Anyone Viewing from Any Location at the Fish

&

wildlife Service, National Park Service Or BLM, Anyone West of the
Continental Divide Check in with Us Now for \"The Hazmat Challenge.\"

Caller: this Is Terry from Reno.

T. Garrett: We Need You to Get a Little Bit Closer to That Microphone.
Give Us Your Name Again.

Caller: this Is Terry from Reno.

T. Garrett: Terry from the Reno BLM Office. Go Ahead and Select a Square
Representing Team West.

Caller: Number 7.

T. Garrett: Terry Selects Number 7. The Question Is True or False.
Federal Employees Cannot Be Held Personally Responsible for Violations
of Federal Environmental Laws.

Caller: False.

T. Garrett: Terry Says the Answer Is False. Indeed, the Answer Is False.
Terry Representing Team West Claims Square Number 7. Let\'s Go Back to
Team East. Anyone East of the Continental Divide Check in with Us for
the Second Question in this Edition Of \"Hazmat Challenge.\" William,
You\'re Certainly Free To Get Back on the Push‑to‑talk With Us and
Compete as Well.

Caller: You\'ve Got Steve in BLM.

T. Garrett: Steve in Worlen BLM and Frank ‑‑ Frank, Which Office Are You
Calling From?

Caller: Calling from BLM Office in Amarillo, Texas.

T. Garrett: Ok. I Tell You What I\'m Going to Do, Fran, I Will Ask You
to Stand by And Take the next Question and Since Steve in the Worland
BLM Office Got in Touch with Us Just A Little Bit Ahead of You, We\'re
Going to Ask ‑‑ Invite Him to Go Ahead and Select a Square and Play
\"Hazmat Challenge.\" Steve, Go Ahead.

Caller: 5.

T. Garrett: Square Number 5. The Question Is, True or False: Criminal
Liability Requires Proof That a Person Knowingly Violated the Law. You
Have 15 Seconds.

Caller: False.

T. Garrett: Steve the Answer Is False and the Answer Is Indeed False.
Very Good. Representing Team East. Now Back to Team West for Another
Question. Anyone West of the Continental Divide Check in with Us Now.

Caller: Peter from Grand Canyon.

T. Garrett: All Right. Peter from Grand Canyon. Pick a Square.

Caller: 1.

T. Garrett: Trying Square Number 1 Again. Peter the Question Is: What
Does Rcra Stand For? The Resource Center for Recreation Activities. The
Rehab Classification and Recovery Act ‑‑

Caller: It\'s C Resource Conservation and Recovery Act.

T. Garrett: Not Wasting Any Time, Peter Says it Is the Correct Answer,
Resource Conservation & Recovery Act. Let\'s See How the Board Looks
Now. All Right. A Threat There with a 1‑4‑7 Strategy. Frank, Are You
Still There in Amarillo?

Caller: Still Here.

T. Garrett: Go Ahead and Select a Square for Team East.

Caller: Let\'s Pick 4.

T. Garrett: 4 to Block. Frank, the Question Is True or False, If a Waste
Is Not Covered Under Rcra, it Is Not Covered Under CERCLA. You Have 15
Seconds.

Caller: That\'s False.

T. Garrett: and Frank Says That\'s False. The Answer Is Indeed It\'s
False. Nice Block There by the East Team. Moving Back West, Let\'s Have
a Caller from West of the Continental Divide. Anyone West of the
Continental Divide Checking in with Us?

Caller: this Is Jed from Reno.

T. Garrett: Jed from Reno. Go Ahead and Select a Square for Team West.

Caller: I\'ll Go for 6.

T. Garrett: All Right. To Block That Move by the East Team, the Question
Is, Hazardous Waste Generator Status Is Determined By, A. Amount of
Hazardous Waste. B. Whether Ignitable, Reactive, Closive or Toxic. C.
the Rules for Handling Hazardous Waste. Jed, You Have 15 Seconds.

Caller: A.

T. Garrett: Jed Says the Answer Is A., Amount of Hazardous Waste. And
That Is Indeed Correct. Nicely Done. Let\'s Go Back East Now and Ask ‑‑
Invite Another Contestant From East of the Continental Divide. This Game
Is Neck and Neck. Looking for a Contestant from East of the Continental
Divide.

Caller: Here\'s Frank Again.

T. Garrett: Good, Fran Income Amarillo. Go Ahead and Select a Square.

Caller: 2.

T. Garrett: the Question, Frank, Is True or False, Federal Solid
Wasteland Fill Rules Also Apply to Other Types of Disposal Facilities.
You Have 15 Seconds, Frank.

Caller: the Answer Is Yes, True.

T. Garrett: Frank Says the Answer Is True. Oh, the Answer Is False.
Sorry, Frank. That Is Incorrect. Let\'s Move Back West Now for Another
Bid by the Western Team. Anyone West of the Continental Divide Check in
with Us Now. I Thought Frank Was Going to Put The East Team in a
Position to Score That 1‑2‑3 Win, but Not So On That Question. Anyone
West of the Continental Divide Now?

Caller: this Is Robert from Reno.

T. Garrett: Robert from Reno. All Right. Select a Square, Robert.

Caller: Number 9, Please.

T. Garrett: Number 9. Which Is Not Covered by Rcra? A. Extremely
Hazardous Substances? B. Underground Storage Tanks? C. or Hazardous
Waste? You Have 7 Seconds. Which Is Not Covered by Rcra?

Caller: A., Please.

T. Garrett: Nicely Done, Robert. Not an Easy Question. All Right, Let\'s
Go Back Now To ‑‑ Back to Team East for a Square. Anyone Calling from
East of the Continental Divide Check in with Us Now.

Caller: this Is Doug in North Dakota.

T. Garrett: Hi, Doug. Good to Hear from You. What Square Would You like
‑‑

Caller: We Will Take Square Number 3.

T. Garrett: Square 3 to Block That Bid. Doug in North Dakota, the
Question Is under the Ffca, All Federal Facilities and Employees Are
Subject To: A. Federal Laws Only. B. Federal and State Laws Only. C.
Federal State and Local Laws. You Have 15 Seconds, Doug.

Caller: We\'ll Go with C.

T. Garrett: Indeed the Answer Is Federal, State and Local Laws. Nicely
Done, Doug. Good to Hear from You. Doug with the BLM Office in North
Dakota. Ok. Let\'s Go Back West Now, West of The Continental Divide,
Inviting Anyone from Any of the Viewing Sites West of the Continental
Divide to Check in with Us Now.

Caller: this Is Gary from Reno and Coos Bay Is Also ‑‑ Gary, I Want to
Ask You to Hold On in Case We Have a Second Question for the West and
Let\'s Go to Coos Bay. Who Is Calling in from Coos Bay?

Caller: this Is Paul.

T. Garrett: Paul from Coos Bay, Go Ahead and Select a Square for the
West Team.

Caller: 8.

T. Garrett: 8 and That Would Block the East. The Question Is a Material
That Is Abandoned, Inherently Waste‑like or Recycled Is: A. a
Recoverable Resource, B., a Solid Waste, C. a Yard Sale Item. You Have
15 Seconds.

Caller: B.

T. Garrett: All Right. Doug Says B., And, Indeed, the Correct Answer Is
B. and it Looks like a Win. All Right, Team West, Congratulations.
Thanks Very Much for All of The ‑‑ Our Contestants in That Game. That
Was a Lot of Fun. We Will Make Sure Doug Receives That Beautiful Olympic
Pin That We Showed Earlier and Again Thanks to All of You for Checking
In. Now We\'re Going to Go Back to Our Course Material and Turn it Over
Once Again to Martin. Thanks, Tony. You Know, I Told You next Week I
Want to Play this Game.

T. Garrett: We\'ll See What We Can Arrange.

M. Thrasher: So Far in this Program We Have Covered the Federal Facility
Compliance Act, Which Is the Basic Act Which Provides Federal
Facilities, Federal Employees Are Subject to State, Local and Federal,
of Course, Solid and Hazardous Waste Laws. And Then We\'ve Gone over
Basically What Hazardous Waste Is and the Importance of Hazardous Waste
Generator Status As Driving the Rules That You as A Managers Have to
Follow in Managing That Waste and Then Throughout the Program Ken, Frank
and I Have Tried to Throw Out Some of the Management Techniques to
Reduce Your Exposure to Hazardous Waste Regulations. I Think Frank You
Have a Few More to Mention in Terms of Particularly Recyclables. So
I\'ll Turn it to You.

F. Mills: I Would like to Show You a Couple Examples of Areas Where You
Do Have a Hazardous Waste Situation That You Can Quickly Get out Of. One
of the First Shots We Have Is of a Parts Washer. Now, this Is One That
Typically In the past We\'ve Used Solvent Solutions to Clean Parts. Now
There Are Aqueous or Water‑based Products, Also Citrus Based Products
Which You Can Ask Your Vendor to Substitute, and That Will Reduce Your
Hazardous Waste Levels with These Units. One of the Things to Keep in
Mind about These Units Is They Do Have a Filter Which Traps the Pieces
of Metal and Petroleum Products That You Are Cleaning Off the Parts and
Engine Components. That Filter Has to Be Tested and Determined Whether
or Not it Is A Hazardous Waste, and Once You Make That Test, You Can
Actually Use the Test as User Knowledge For Future Disposals of That
Filter. So Let\'s Say That it Comes Back Negative and it Is Not a
Hazardous Waste, Then in the Future, When You Have to Get Rid Of the
Filter, You Can Say, it Is Not a Hazardous Waste. In the next Shot, What
We Have Here Are Batteries. Batteries Is Another Area That We Can
Actually Reduce Our Hazardous Waste Burden by Recycling. A Number of
States Have Battery Recycling Programs Which Are Run By Counties and
Local Governments. Many, Many Industries, for Instance, Gasoline
Stations, Hardware Stores Also Operate Battery Recycling Points.
Oftentimes There Is a Small Fee Assigned to Returning Batteries. So I
Would Suggest That If You Have a Lot of Batteries That You Contact One
of These Local County Departments and Ask Them About Their Battery
Recycling Programs. Now There Are Some Numbers That Are Available for ‑‑
800 Numbers And Ken, Could You Go over the 800 Number for ‑‑

K. Morin: There Are a Variety Of Different Types of Batteries In
Addition to the Typical Car Batteries That Are out There. For Your
Laptop Batteries, Your Batteries on Your Cell Phones, Small Sealed Lead
Acid Batteries You Might Use with Surveying Equipment, You Can Send Them
Into this Free Recycling Program. If You Dial 1‑800‑battery and They\'re
Not Trying to Get Your Money, It\'s a Free Program, You Enter in Your
Zip Code and it Will Tell You the Closest Places In the Country That
Will Accept These Small Sealed Batteries and Nicad Batteries Would Be
Hazardous Waste, Lithium Batteries Would Be as Well. A Variety of
Different Types. You Go to Their Website and it Will List Them.
Typically Radio Shacks and Wal‑marts Throughout Country Will Accept
These Batteries for Free of Charge So You Don\'t Have To Count Them as a
Regulated Waste Stream That Counts Toward Your Generator Status. Back to
You.

Another Area That Quite Frequently We See in the Field Is the Area Of.
Fluorescent Tubes. Fluorescent Tubes, this Is Another Area That\'s Easy
to Take Care Of. If You\'ll Notice at the Top of The Two Tubes in the
Picture, The Little End Scalp Green in Color. These Tubes Have Been
Certified To Be Low Mercury Tubes and You Can Actually Throw These Away
as Standard Garbage. This Is an Area That All You Have to Do Is Get with
Your Purchasing People, Make Sure When They Purchase New Fluorescent
Tubes They Purchase The Green Tubes, as They\'re Called. The Older
Tubes, There Is a Certain Limit, Depending on Your State Rules and
Regulations, About How Many You Can Throw Away at One Time. And If You
Stay Within That Small Number, Then Some of the Older Tubes Can Be
Thrown Away In the Regular Trash. If You Are ‑‑ Exceed That Number, Then
You Have to Get Rid Of Those Tubes as a Hazardous Waste. Fluorescent
Tubes Fall in Actually Two Types of Categories And We Would Suggest You
Go with The Green Tubes. Another Area That Is Very Common For Our
Facilities Is the Area Of What We Call Mercury Switches Or Thermostat
Switches. We Have a Lot of These Switches That Are ‑‑ as We Rebuild Our
Buildings and Redesign Facilities and We\'re Changing Out Heat and Air
Conditioning Systems That Can Also Be Handled As a Special Type of
Waste. Now, this Type of Waste We Wanted to Discuss Is Known as a
Universal Waste. And All of These Things That We\'ve Mentioned Here
Today, the Batteries, the Fluorescent Tubes And Mercury Thermostats Are
Covered under this Universal Waste Rule and I Would like to Give You a
Citation If You\'ll Write this down in 40 Cfr 261.9 Is Where You Find
the Regulations Concerning Universal Wastes. If It\'s Considered a
Universal Waste under That Regulation, This Is it Is Not Fully Regulated
as a Hazardous Waste And it Will Take That Burden of Adding That to Your
Waste Total. So, Martin, These Are Areas They Can Definitely Use in the
Field To Reduce Their Waste Burden Under the Universal Waste Rule.

M. Thrasher: All Right. Great. That Was 40 Cfr 261.9. Along with These
Mercury Switches and the Fluorescent Tubes, I Might Mention These Are
Readily Recyclable. There Are Several Companies ‑‑ I Know of One in
Minnesota That Has Regular Runs Throughout the Country. They\'ll Pick
this Stuff Up. You Can Actually Get Paid for Some of this Stuff If
There\'s Enough Mercury in it They Will Send You a Check for the Value
Of the Mercury. In Any Event, It\'s a Great Way To Take it out or at
Least Partially out of the Hazardous Waste Management System. Doesn\'t
Completely Take it Out, But at Least it Reduces the Regulatory Burden.
So Recycling Is the Way to Go.

K. Morin: I Need to Correct Some Math in the Math Error I Made When I
Was Answering the Question from Virginia. She Asked Where Did the 28
Gallons Come That from That Was Based Actually on the Weight of Water. .
The Point I Wanted to Make about The Weight of Gasoline Is Gasoline
Weighs 6.2 Pounds. You Need to Know What Hazardous Waste You\'re
Generating, and If It Is Truly Gasoline, it Will Be More than 28
Gallons. But If You Base it on Paint Waste, Typically Weighs More Than
Water, and That\'s Where the 28 Gallons Came From. I Didn\'t Want
Anybody to Think I\'m an Engineer and Can\'t Do Math.

M. Thrasher: That\'s Great. You Know, What I Have Used When I Was in the
Business and Industry, We Always Used a Cutoff of Kind of Half a
55‑gallon Barrel Was Your 100 Kilograms and Four Barrels Would Be Your
Thousand Kilograms. It More or less Got You in the Ballpark. Good Rules
of Thumb. All Right. I Think You Can See from All of This That Hazardous
Waste Programs Are Extremely Complex And We Just Barely Skimmed over The
Top. This Scenario ‑‑ this Is an Area Where as a Manager You Have to
Have a Management System in Place. And We\'re Going to Be Talking About
That Sort of Thing in Module 6. I\'m Talking about Something in Writing
That You Can Refer Your People To. Then the Other Thing That You Need Is
You Need to Have Training of Your Staff. This Is Not Stuff That Comes
Naturally to People. It\'s Something You Have to Learn About and Adhere
to the Rules. So It\'s Very ‑‑ It\'s Very Complex. I Remember Years Ago
Working With a City Here in Arizona and The Manager Was Taking Me out to
The Field and I Asked Him If He Generated Any Hazardous Wastes, And He
Said, Yes, and I Said, Well, What\'s Your ‑‑ How Do You Think You\'re
Doing? He Said, Well, I Hope I\'m Doing Ok. And I Know Where His Heart
Was, But Hoping You\'re Doing Ok Doesn\'t Make It. You Have to Have the
Systems in Place to Make it Work. I Wondered at this Point If There Were
Any More Questions or Comments in from the Folks Listening out There or
Faxes That We Have Gotten In, Tony.

Caller: this Is Dale Barnes From Worland Field Office in Wyoming.

T. Garrett: You Want to Back Away from That Mic Just about a Foot or So
and Try That Again?

Caller: this Is Darrell Barnes from the Worland Field Office in Wyoming.

T. Garrett: Much Better. What\'s Your Question for the Panel?

Caller: We Have Computer Parts That We Take out When Computers Go Down,
We\'ll Save All the Pieces and Use Them to Work on Other Computers, but
My Question Is, Is There Any of This Materials Inside These Computer
Components That We Need To Be Concerned With, Silver or Some of this
Stuff That\'s on That Kind of a Short List?

K. Morin: That\'s a Great Question. Yeah, There Are Several Types of
Heavy Metals in Those, and Actually Epa Has Come out in Their ‑‑
They\'re Making a Point When They\'re Doing Audits, They\'re Telling the
Industry That Those Computers, Including The Monitors Themselves, Would
Fail Tclp and There Is a Couple Recycling Programs. I Have the
Information in My Office, Darrell If That You Send Me an E‑mail, I Will
E‑mail You Back the Information on the Recycling Program for the
Computer Parts.

Caller: Ok. Real Good. I\'ll Have Steve Kierkoff Get Ahold of You.

T. Garrett: Darrell, Thanks For Checking in with Us. Anyone Else at the
BLM, National Park Service, Fish

&

wildlife Service with a Question, Comment Or Information to Share with
Our Audience? We\'ll Pause Just a Moment. Want to Repeat the Telephone
Number for Those Offices Not Equipped with Push to Talk. We Would like
to Hear from You. We Can Take Your Call by Telephone at this Number,
1‑877‑709‑5346. That Is a Toll‑free Call. . If There Are No Questions at
This Time We Will Get Back to The Presentation. Martin?

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Tony. What I Would like to Do Now Is Turn Away from
the Discussion of Hazardous Waste and Rcra and Spend a Few Minutes
Discussing The Other Major Component That We Wanted to Cover During the
Program, and That\'s Dealing with Underground Storage Tanks. Underground
Storage Tanks Are Regulated under What\'s Called Subtitle I of Rcra, and
There Are Lots of State Regulations in Place as Well That You Need to Be
Aware Of. Back in the Time When Epa First Came out with its Underground
Storage Tank Regulations, There Was an Estimate That Somewhere, And I
Think it Was on the Order Of 50% of the Underground Storage Tanks in the
United States Were Leaking or Not Operating Properly. And That\'s One of
the Estimates That Epa Has Come up with That Has Turned out to Be
Probably Undershooting the Mark. My Experience Is That 80 to 90% Of the
Underground Storage Tanks That I Dealt with Turn out to Have Operational
Problems or Were Leaking. As Far as the Purposes for the Underground
Storage Tank Regulations, What Epa Was Trying To Do Was to Identify
Existing Underground Tanks and to Bring Those Existing Tanks into
Compliance with Minimum Design Standards and Operation Standards, or to
Have Them Closed. The Other Objective of the Program Was to Identify
Leaking Underground Storage Tanks and Then to Initiate Corrective Action
to Get Them up to Par or To Close Those. So That\'s the Basic of the
Program. And it Really Extended over a 10‑year Period That Ended in
1986, I Think, or Was it 96. Started in 1986 and Ended in 1996. So
We\'re Fully under the Regulations at this Time. One of the Things We
Need to Do Is to Define What We Mean by an Underground Storage Tank. An
Underground Storage Tank Is Defined as a ‑‑ as a Tank Including the
Underground Pipes That Contain a Regulated Substance the Volume of Which
The Tank and the Piping Is 10% Or More Beneath the Surface of The
Ground. That\'s Kind of Complicated but Let\'s Just Delve into That for
a Moment. First of All, the ‑‑ Yes, We Have a Great Visual Here That
Shows a Tank. It\'s Possible by the Definition, You Notice We\'re
Talking about The Volume of the Tank and the Volume of the Underground
Piping. So, in Order to Determine Whether or Not Something Is an
Underground Storage Tank, You Need to Calculate All of Those Volumes.
Here We Have a Rather Large Storage Tank and Then I Believe That this Is
the Discharge Pipe That Comes out Here. I\'m Not Certain. But We Don\'t
Know Where That Goes. So Just by Looking at this You May Presume It\'s
an above Ground Storage Tank, But, in Fact, When You Calculate the
Volume of the Tank and the Pipes, it May N Deed, Be an Underground
Storage Tank. So That\'s Something to Watch out For. The Other Thing
That\'s Important In the Regulations Is to Realize It re It\'s There
What\'s Called Regulated Substances and Regulated Substances Include All
Of Those CERCLA Hazardous Substances, All Petroleum and Petroleum‑based
Products and the Other Thing Is That it Does Not Include Hazardous
Waste. Quite Frankly, I Don\'t Know of Any Federal Facilities That Store
Hazardous Waste Underground, but If You Do, Those Tanks Are Regulated
under Another Set of Rules Other than The Underground Storage Tank
Rules. Now, That Gives the Basics about Underground Storage Tanks. As Is
True with a Lot of These Other Programs, There Are Lots Of Exclusions to
the Underground Storage Tank Rules. Let Me Go Through a Few of Those
Quickly. The First Exclusion I Would like To Mention Relates to Heating
Oil Tanks. Here You See on this Visual Image a Heating Oil Tank for ‑‑
That Would Be Exempt from the Underground Storage Tank Rules. Now,
Before We Get Too Far, Let Me Mention That Just Because Something Is
Exempt from These Particular Rules Does Not Mean That It\'s Exempt from
Other Rules Maybe Relating to above Ground Storage Tanks. So You Need to
Watch That. The next Exclusion to Mention Are Septic Tanks. They\'re
Exempt from the Rules. There Are Certainly Rules Associated with Those.
We Have Pipeline Facilities. Those Are Regulated under Other Federal
Statutes Dealing with Pipelines. There Are Surface Pits and Lagoons and
Impoundments of Various Kinds. Those Are Not Regulated by the
Underground Rules. And Then We Also Have Storm Water and Wastewater
Collection Systems. These Particular System That\'s Depicted Here Is a
Storm Water And Probably a Deicing System at An Airport. The next
Exclusion Relates to Emergency Secondary Containment. Here\'s a
Depiction of a Firefightering Aircraft Loading Unit Where in Case They
Have a Spill of the Fire Retardent on The Tarmac the Fire Retardent
Would Go into an Underground Tank and Then Be Immediately Recovered.
Well, That Sort of Operation Is Exempt from the Rules as Well. Another
Exclusion Relates to Liquid Traps and Gathering Lines, Ask and Then We
Have Another Exclusion That Relates To Basement Storage Tanks. These Are
Actually Storage Tanks That Sit on Top of a Surface in A Basement and in
this Picture You Can\'t See it but the Tank Is Actually Situated Behind
this Wall and You Can See the Pipe That Leads from the Tank to Remove
the Materials. Well, as Long as the Tank Is Sitting on the Floor Where
it Can Be Visually Observed, Then It\'s Going to Be Exempt from the
Rules. So That\'s a Basic Rundown on Some of the Underground Storage
Tank Exclusions. Is a Couple Other Things I Want To Mention Before I
Turn it over To Ken and Frank for Some Discussion about this Are the
Operator Requirements. The Underground Storage Tank Rules Imposed an
Impressive Array of Requirements on Operators to Do Record Keeping, To
Do Reporting to the Federal And State Agencies and to Do Various Other
Things That Have To Be Strictly Followed, and If You Ever Get an
Inspection by a Ust Inspector, They Are Going to Want to Be Looking at
Those Types of Records. The Other Aspect of the Rules Is That it
Provided for Certain Performance Standards for the Tanks. You Have to
Have Spill and Overfill Protection. You Have to Have Leak Detection
Systems in Place, and You Have To Have Handle Leaks in a Certain Fashion
If They Occur. The Underground Storage Tank Rules Are Very, Very
Extensive And You Really Need to Access Your Hazardous Materials
Coordinator or Somebody Familiar With Them Because They\'re Quite
Complex. Lastly I Want to Mention Real Briefly above Ground Storage
Tanks. The above Ground Storage Tank Rules ‑‑ I\'m Sorry ‑‑ the
Underground Storage Tank Rules Do Not Apply to above Ground Storage
Tanks. So If You Have a Strictly above Ground Storage Tank, the Rules
Don\'t Apply. There Are No Federal Rules under Rcra for above Ground
Storage Tanks. Now, Let Me Again Caution You, I Just Said That There Are
No Above Ground Storage Tank Rules Relating under Rcra. There Are
Significant above Ground Storage Tank Rules under Other Federal
Statutes, Such as The Clean Water Act, Relating to Spill Prevention,
Control and Countermeasure. We Will Cover Those in Other Modules but
They\'re Not Regulated under Rcra Right Here. However, There Are
Extensive State Regulations for above Ground Storage Tanks in a Lot of
Cases. Here\'s a Depiction of Two Rather Large above Ground Storage
Tanks That Would Not Be Subject to the Rules. I Can\'t Quite Tell How
Tall These Are, but I\'m Thinking ‑‑ Let Me Start over Here. I\'m
Thinking this Tank Is about 32 Feet Tall, I Would Presume, And Probably
about 15 or 20 Feet In Diameter. So It\'s a Substantially Large Tank,
but It\'s Not Subject to The Ust Rules. I Think with That What I Would
Like to Do Is Turn the Discussion over to Frank and Ken To See If You
Have Any Thing More to Add about Underground Storage Tanks.

F. Mills: One of the Things That We\'ve Seen in the Field in Auditing
Forest Service Facilities Is That Many Times The Field Offices Aren\'t
Aware Of Local Regulations Concerning Above Ground Storage Tanks, as
Martin Mentioned. The Fire Codes Are Very, Very Important in this Area,
and It\'s Really Important as a Manager That You Know Which Set of Fire
Codes Cover Your Facility. Sit the Uniform Fire Code? Sit the National
Fire Protection Association Code or Is it the Universal Fire Code? And
Your Engineering Offices Should Be Able to Help You Determine Which Fire
Codes Regulate. In Addition, the Spill and Countermeasures Planning and
Responsibilities Are Very Exacting and There\'s Some Area Here Where You
Need Professional Help in Making Determinations of Where ‑‑ Whether or
Not You Impact a Water Source or Not. So Please Be Aware of These Above
Ground Storage Tank Responsibilities and Just Keep In Mind That There
Are Personnel At Your Regional and State Offices Can That Help You Make
That Determination. Ken?

K. Morin: Relating to Ust Specifically, the ‑‑ If You Do Have a Steele
Tank, You Have to Have a Protection System and What We Find with the
Facilities And There Are Few That Have Ust\'s Still, but the Ones That
Are Do, What Is Not Being Done Is That That Cathodic Protection System
Be Being Maintained. There Are Also Leak Detection Systems That Have
Been Maintained in Accordance with Manufacturers Recommendation. So
Regardless of the Tank Whether Regard Steele or Fiberglass, That Double
Wall Tank Has Some Sort of Detection System. What I Typically Ask Is Let
Me See Your Operating Manual You Got from the Manufacturer and If You
Don\'t Have It, You Can\'t Be Operating and Maintaining it in Accordance
with the Manufacturer\'s Standards and Epa Could Cite You for That.
That\'s about It.

M. Thrasher: All Right. I Couldn\'t Help but Think While You Are
Discussing this Very Interesting Situation That Happened to Me about
Underground Storage Tanks with People Who Are Well Intended and Were
Trying to Do the Right Thing. We Had a Facility and If I Could Turn to
this Camera Here, We Had A Facility That Had Two above Ground Diesel
Storage Tanks, and They Had Been above Ground for a Long Time. They
Filled up Their Fuel ‑‑ Their Heavy Equipment from It, And We\'d Given
Them a Class About the Importance of Environmental Laws and Making Sure
They Didn\'t Pollute Things. They Went Back to Their Facility And What
They Did to Safeguard These Tanks to Make Sure That Nobody Ran into Them
and Had Collisions and So Forth, They Took a Front of End Loader and
Sacked Dirt Against the Sides of The Tanks like this So They Wouldn\'t
Rolla Way, and it Would Be less Likely to Be Collided With with Heavy
Equipment. What They\'ve Done All of a Sudden by Trying to Do the Right
Thing, They Turned above Ground Storage Tanks into Underground Storage
Tanks, Didn\'t Have a Permit, Didn\'t Have the Operational Requirements,
Didn\'t Have the Performance Standards. Nothing Else. All by Trying to
Do the Right Thing. You Need Expert Advice Before You Do It. Tony, I
Think with That, Let\'s See If We Have Any Questions.

T. Garrett: the Green Light Is On. Let\'s Invite Our Viewing Audience to
Check in with Us by Either Telephone, Push‑to‑talk Or Fax with Any
Questions. Anyone Have Any Issues in Your District or Your Field Office
Having to Do with the Material That\'s Been Covered, Underground Storage
Tanks, above Ground Storage Tanks? We\'ve Heard from the Bureau of Land
Management Offices and the National Park Service Offices. We Understand
All the Telephone Bridges for Push‑to‑talk Are Operating. Certainly
Welcome Our Friends at The U.s. Fish

&

wildlife Service To Check in with Us at Any Time With Your Questions or
Comments For the Panel. Once Again, Write this Telephone Number down If
You\'re Not Equipped with Push to Talk in Your Downlink Site. Here Is
How You Can Reach Us by Telephone. It\'s a Toll‑free Number. One of the
Questions That Came In Earlier Having to Do with Rcra Is this Question:
Does Solid Waste Generated in Campgrounds Come under Rcra or Is it
Excluded? We Get a Lot of Waste, Especially When We Have a Lot of Motor
Homes. I Think, Frank, You Touched on That in the First Part of the
Broadcast Today.

F. Mills: Yes, I Did. Campgrounds Are Specifically Listed in the
Exclusion for Household Hazardous Wastes, But, Again, We Need to Caution
You That the Waste Has to Be Inherently Part of the Operation Of the
Campground and the Home. Let\'s Say That You Have Your Campground and
You\'re Bringing In a Facility to Put in a New Water Pump and Just
Because the Water Pump Is Being Put in the Ground at the Campground
Doesn\'t Mean All of the Waste That\'s Associated with That Operation
Would Be Exempt. In the Case of a Motorhome, Certainly You Might Have
Someone Who Would Be Taking Oil, Used Oil, and That Necessarily Would
Not Fall Strictly under the Household Hazardous Waste Rule, Depending on
How They Used the Oil and How They Got Rid of It. I Think You Would Have
to Be Very Careful in Some Those Cases, but Generally the Rule to Follow
Is That If It\'s Waste That Is Normally ‑‑ Would Come From a Home and
Use Your Own Home as an Example, it Would Be Exempt from the Household
Waste Rule ‑‑ under the Household Waste Rule.

T. Garrett: Thank You, Frank. Another Question Submitted Earlier, Where
Does a Sewage Lagoon or Evaporation Pond Fit Into the Rcra Regulatory
Scheme? Martin?

M. Thrasher: Basically it Doesn\'t. We\'re Going to Be Looking at That
under the Clean Water Act. That\'s Primarily Where You Are Going to See
Regulation of the Sewage Lagoons.

T. Garrett: All Right.

M. Thrasher: I Mean, I\'m Presuming There Isn\'t Some Really Untoward
Activity Where Somebody Is Using a Standard Municipal Sewage Lagoon for
Disposal of Industrial Wastes of Some Type.

T. Garrett: Again, We Want to Invite Our Field Offices to Push To Talk,
Get in Touch with Us on That Two‑way Audio System If You Would like If
You Have Any Questions or Comments for Our Panel.

Caller: Question for Ken. This Is Pat with the National Park Service in
South Carolina.

T. Garrett: Ok, Pat in South Carolina, I Want You to Hold on Just a
Moment. We Had a Call from BLM, I Think, That Came in First. Who Else Is
on the Line? BLM?

Caller: this Is Olivia at the Forest Service in Bishop, California.

T. Garrett: Olivia at the Forest Service. Olivia, Would You Go Ahead,
Please and Pat, Hold On. We\'ll Get to Your Question.

Caller: Ken, Weaver an Upcoming Forestwide Hazardous Waste Collection.
In Regards to Generator Status, Can You Give Us Some Guidelines For
That?

K. Morin: What You Wanted To ‑‑ You Have Wastes Coming From a Variety of
Facilities, Whether Fire Stations, Maybe Even Some Campground Wastes, Is
That Right, Olivia?

Caller: That\'s Correct.

K. Morin: Each One of Those Remote Facilities Is a Separate Generator.
So, in Other Words, Every One of Those Facilities Can Generate up To 100
Kilograms of Hazardous Waste in a Month. So If You Are Bringing it All
Into One Point, and That Makes Sense Because It\'s Much Cheaper For That
Contract to Make One Stop, in the Hazardous Waste Generation Log That I
Keep Telling You Have to Have, You Have to Note the Location it Came
from So That When That Manifest Goes out and it Goes Out under One
Number, You Can Show to the Regulator, Though, \"We Broke the 100
Kilogram Threshold but We Did That Because it Came from 14 Locations and
Not One of Those Locations Exceeded 100 Kilograms.\" Does That Make
Sense?

Caller: Yes. Thank You.

T. Garrett: Olivia, Thank You For Checking in with Us. Martin, Go Ahead.

M. Thrasher: If I Am Remembering Right, I Think There Is a 10‑day
Temporary Storage Rule.

K. Morin: That\'s for Transporters. That Doesn\'t Apply Us To.

T. Garrett: Let\'s Go Back to Pat with the National Park Service in
South Carolina. Pat?

Caller: Perhaps I Missed this Earlier, but Can You Address the Washing
of Vehicles and Equipment Again for Me? What Is the Threshold Amount? Is
That Determined by the Number Of Vehicles, the Times They\'re Washed? We
Don\'t Have a Regulation in Place. We Don\'t Have the Mechanism in Place
for Maintaining and Holding That Water.

F. Mills: I Would like to Address this for You. The Vehicle Washing
Really Is a Water Issue, First. Any Time That We Wash Vehicles And We
Have it on a Pad, and That Water Is Collected in a Sump and That Sump
Discharges Through a Pipe, Then We Have a Situation Called a Npde Permit
Situation. As Far as Rcra Is Concerned, the Sediment That\'s Trapped in
the Trap Has to Be Tested to Determine Whether or Not it Fails the Tclp
for Metals, Pesticides and Those Other Inorganic Materials That Are
Listed on That Tclp List. There Are 40 of Those Things That Need to Be
Tested For. So When You Have Vehicle Washing, You Really Are Looking At
a Twofold Issue Here. What Is My Water Responsibilities, Which We\'re
Going to Cover in Another Module Of the Class? And What Is My Rcra
Responsibilities? So There\'s Not a Number of Vehicles. There\'s Not a
Number of Times. It\'s Really Has to Do with the Water Leaving, Is it ‑‑
Do I Have a Permit to Discharge the Water? Or Is the Trapped Material a
Waste That Has to Be Handled as A Hazardous Waste. Does That Answer Your
Question?

K. Morin: I Would like to Clarify a Couple Things There. If You
Discharged Directly into A Municipal Sewer System, You Don\'t Have to
Have an Mpsd Permit but You Will Have to Check with the Municipality but
Because They Will Have a Pretreatment Program. You Need to Check with
Them on That. If it Does Direct Discharge into Navigable Waters of the
U.s. and Those Have Been Defined as Storm Sewers and Arroyos, Then You
Will Need a Permit. In Some States, in Oregon, as an Example, Depending
on What You\'re Washing and the Number of Times You Do Wash, They\'ll
Give You a General Permit or a Site Specifice Permit. Hopefully That
Clarifies it a Little Bit.

T. Garrett: Pat, Is That Information Helpful to You in South Carolina?

Caller: Yes, it Is. Thank You.

T. Garrett: Thanks for Checking in with Us. I Think We May Have Had a
Viewer In Bishop, at the Bishop, California ‑‑

K. Morin: Already Talked to Olivia.

T. Garrett: All Right, Good. Any Other Questions or Comments From Our
Viewing Audience at This Time? Good Time to Check in with Us Either by
Telephone or Push to Talk.

Caller: this Is William from Ozark.

Caller: this Is Ron for Medford, Oregon.

T. Garrett: Ron, I Am Going To Ask You to Hold on in Medford. Let\'s Go
to William in the Ozarks. William?

Caller: Yes, the Answer That Was Given Earlier about Remote Locations
Being Their Own Separate Generators, Is There a Definition to That, or
Is it Pretty Simple That Different Maintenance Facilities in a Lark
Would Be a Single Generator as Opposed to the Entire Park?

F. Mills: I Can Answer That And I\'ll Let Ken Follow up with The Answer.
Epa Has Said That it Is Contiguous Property and Martin Gave You That
Definition in the Beginning of a Facility and Contiguous Means
Everything Together and Not Remotely Connected. Let Me Give You an
Example. In a Park You May Have a Facility That Is Contiguous If You
Included the Entire Park Boundary as the Contiguous Facility. You Could
Get a Number for That Entire Park. But Let\'s Say in Case of Sometimes
in Forest Service or BLM or Park Service Where There Is a Separation of
Property Lines, Where You May Have an Office That Is Located in a Town
That Is Not Specifically on Park Forest Service or BLM Land. That Would
Not Be Contiguous and You Would Have to Have Two Separate Numbers for
Those Two Separate Places. We Really Need to Look at this Issue of
Numbering Because If You Have a Shop Facility, Epa Likes to See That
Facility Considered the Facility, and Maybe You Might Drive 20 Miles
Down the Road to a Fire Lookout Station. They Would like to See That
Considered a Separate Facility. So in this Issue of Numbering, It\'s
Kind of ‑‑ You Need to Talk With Your Environmental Protection
Specialist and 73 They Can Help You Work Your Way Through this Moore as
of Where The Numbers Should Be and When It Shouldn\'t Be. The Issue\'s
Come up with the Military Considering Bases, for Example, Because Some
Military Bases Have the Entire Base under One Number, but They Have a ‑‑
a Defined Facility Which They Control. They Control Access and Those
Kind of Things. All of These Issues Need to Be Considered in That. Ken,
Would You like to ‑‑

K. Morin: Yeah. What Frank Just Gave You Was the Legal Answer, Because
He\'s an Attorney. I\'m Going to Give Outengineering Answer. At Least
for BLM, I Don\'t like The Remote Facilities to Get I.d. Numbers. It\'s
Too Much Paper Work. What I like to See Is the Field Office Itself Have
a Number, Because That\'s Probably Where The Collateral or Full‑time
Environmental Coordinator Is Working and His or Her Job Is to Support
Those People out in the Field. So I Have Them ‑‑ Have the Remote Take
Their Waste Back to The Main Office and Let the Main Office Deal with
It, and as Long As They Note on the Generator Log That it Came from a
Separate, Noncontiguous Piece of Property, That\'s a Separate Facility
and it Doesn\'t Count Toward That Main Office\'s Epa I.d. Number.
That\'s the Way We Do it in BLM, Anyway.

T. Garrett: Thank You. Now Let\'s Go Back to Ron in Medford for Your
Question, Ron.

Caller: Yes. Coincidentally, My Question Was In Referring to the Epa
I.d. Numbers as Well, So Everything That I Have Heard Answers My
Questions.

T. Garrett: Thank You for Checking in with Us. Let\'s Pause Now and
Invite Any Other Viewers to Get in Touch With Us by Push to Talk at this
Time.

F. Mills: While We\'re Waiting, Could We Discuss Theth Amongst the Three
of Us on this Epa I.d. Number Issue. One of the Areas Where We Find Our
Offices Get into Trouble Is When We Have a Midnight Dumping And the
Rangers Pick up the Material, Put it in a Pickup Truck and They Bring it
Back to The Office. Well, If the Office Is Operating As a Small Quantity
Generator And Suddenly We Have Four Drums That Have Been Brought in from
The Field, Now We\'ve Become Another Status If We Generate That from the
Location. There Is a Policy in Place Where You Can Get a One‑time
Emergency I.d. Number for Midnight Dumps, And You Do this by Contacting
Your State Rcra Office and Asking Them for That One‑time Number and That
Way the Midnight Dump Would Have a Number Specifically for That
Location, And I like to Use the Term Victimize, Because We Are Either
Victims of Someone Else\'s Criminal Act and We Should Not Have to Count
That Waste Against Us.

M. Thrasher: That\'s What We Did Where I Worked, Is If We Had The
Midnight Dumping or the Gifts from the Public to Us, We Got Emergency
Numbers. The Other Reason ‑‑ You Know, You Can Always Float Your
Generator Status from Month to Month and Makes it Very Hard to Manage
Doing That. But the Other Thing Is That as Soon as You Get a Higher
Status, You Go into the Epa and I Think The States Work the Same Way,
You Go into Their Computer Bank As That Higher Level Generator, You\'re
Going to End up Getting More Visits Because They Have Finite Resources
for Enforcement, They\'re Going to Visit the Larger Quantity Generators
First. So We Just Thought it Was Prudent to Get the Emergency Numbers
and Not Start Getting Ourselves up in a Higher Level.

K. Morin: BLM Does the Same Thing as Well. We Get an Emergency Number.
Another Concern with the Ranger Just Picking up Drums and Bringing it
Back Is He or She Probably Is Not Sure What\'s in Those Drums, and it
Could Have An Accident in Transportation And Then You\'ve Got All Sorts
of Other Problems. So They Definitely ‑‑ Any Waste Dumped on Us Needs to
Be Left Where it Is and Handle it as a Separate Site.

T. Garrett: We\'re Coming up On the Final Few Minutes of Today\'s
Broadcast. So We\'ll Pause Once Again and Invite Anyone in Our Viewing
Audience to Get in Touch with Us By Push to Talk. We Certainly Want to
Answer All Your Questions If We Can During The Broadcast. Wonder If We
Should Check in With Mark Hemingway Yellowstone And See If Mark Is Still
with Us.

Caller: Yes, We\'re Here.

T. Garrett: We Thought Maybe You Would Leave Early to Avoid The Buffalo
Rush Hour There in The Yellowstone. Mark, Are Some of These Issues
Relevant to the Work You Do There in the National Park?

Caller: Yes, it Is, but I\'ve Seen it Far More When I Worked With Dod.

K. Morin: I Hear That.

T. Garrett: All Right. If There Are No Further Questions at this Time,
Then, Martin, We\'ll Turn it Back to You.

M. Thrasher: Thanks, Tony. At the Start of this Program We Did a Fun
Little Learning Assessment, and I Promised You At the End Here We Would
Go over To it See How You Did, and Hopefully You Knew a Lot about This
Stuff and Hopefully as We Go Through the Questions Here You\'ll Find out
That You Knew A ‑‑ That You Know a Lot More Now after We\'ve Gone
Through the Program. So Let\'s Pull out the Learning Assessment. We\'ve
Got it Here on this Camera. The First Question Was the Characteristics
of Hazardous Wastes under the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act Are
A: and it Doesn\'t Matter the Order. Here\'s One, Is Ignitability.
Hopefully I\'ll Spell All These Correctly. Ignitability. We\'ve Got
Corrosivity, or Corrosiveness. We\'ve Got Reactivity and Finally,
Probably the Most Important, If I Can Spell it Correctly, Toxicity. So
Hopefully You Got Those Correct. The next Question Was a True or False.
And it Was Hazardous Wastes Include All Substances Can That Kill People.
Hopefully You Marked False Because One of the Things I Wanted to Get
Across to You Was That We Use this Term Hazardous Substance Kind of
Loosely as If It\'s Just All of the Dangerous Stuff That\'s out There,
and That\'s Not the Case. There Are Specific Rules Related To this Stuff
and It\'s Very Specifically Defined. Third Question: Most Waste
Pesticides Are Regulated or Regarded as Hazardous Wastes. There Are
Certainly Some Waste Pesticides That Are Hazardous Wastes but Most of
Them Are Not. So That Is False. Most Waste Pesticides Are Going To Be
Regulated under What\'s Called the Federal Insecticide, Fung Side and
Rodenticide Act And We Will Cover in That a Later Module. The Fourth
Question, the Federal Facility Compliance Act Provides That Federal
Facilities and Federal Employees Are Subject to Federal, State and Local
Laws Relating to ‑‑ Do You Remember What They Relate To? Solid Waste and
Hazardous Waste. And the Key Here Is That this Law Does Not Relate to
Air Quality Issues, Safe Drinking Water Act, Pesticides and So Forth.
Just Solid and the Hazardous Waste. Fifth Question: Rcra Provides The
Federal Legal Basis for Regulation Of, And, of Course, We\'ve Got
Hazardous Wastes, and We\'ve Got Solid Waste, and We\'ve Got Underground
Storage Tanks. That\'s What Rcra Covers. There Are Laws That Cover Other
Types of Things That Are Related To Those. Number 6, Again Back to True
and False: If a Waste Is Excluded From Regulation as a Hazardous Waste
under Rcra, it May Still Be Subject to Regulations as a Hazardous
Substance under CERCLA Or the Superfund Law. Absolutely. That\'s One of
the Key Points out Of this Program That Just Because Something Is
Excluded Under a Particular Program Does Not Mean That It\'s Excluded
from Another Program. Number 7, What Are the Three Levels of Hazardous
Waste Generators under Rcra. Those Are, in Order, Conditionally Exempt
Small Quantity Generator. Those Are the Folks, as You Remember, That Are
the under 100 Kilograms per Month. You Didn\'t Need this Part of the
Answer. The next Level up Is the Small Quantity Generator and That\'s
The Facility That Generates Between 100 to a Thousand Kilograms a Month.
Then, of Course, We Have the Generator, Sometimes Called the Large
Quantity Generator, Just To Help Distinguish It, and That\'s the
Facility That Generates over a Thousand Kilograms of Hazardous Waste in
A Month. So That\'s ‑‑ Those Are the Generator Status. All Right. Lastly
Here, Number 8, Why Is it Important to Know Your Generator Status? I
Think Sometimes as Managers We Think, Well, this Is Something I Don\'t
Need to Know About. It\'s Just Confusing and Doesn\'t Make Any
Difference but Does it Make a Difference. So Why Is That Important to
Know The Status? Ok? And the Short Answer Is ‑‑ Oops, Sorry. The Short
Answer Is ‑‑ Because It Drives the Rules to Follow. It Drives the Rules
You Have to Follow. And I Think That\'s an Important Thing in All of
These Programs. There Are Very Stringent Rules. We Have to Correctly
Categorize These and Make Sure That We\'re Following Those Rules. All
Righty. That Concludes the Program for Module 2. We\'ve Covered Federal
Facility Compliance Act. We\'ve Covered Rcra as it Relates To Hazardous
Wastes and Underground Storage Tanks. Next Weekeer Going to Be Covering
Module 3 and in That Module We Will Talk about the Emergency Planning
and Community Right to Know Act, or Epcra and Then We Are Going to Be
Talking About Some Management for Special Wastes That We Need to Cover.
So, Tony?

T. Garrett: All Right. That Finishes up Module 2 of Our Manager\'s Tool
Kit on Environmental Compliance and Pollution Prevention. We Look
Forward to You Join Us At this Moment next Thursday the 21st for Module
3. To Let Us Know How Many of You Were with Us Today Viewing, Please
Sign the Roster in Your Viewing Room and Fax it to Us at This Number.
And Remember the Primary Source Of Information about this Course, Study
Materials and Resources Will Be on Your Agency\'s Websites. And We Want
to Thank Martin Thrasher, Ken Morin and Frank Mills for All the Great
Work They Put into Preparing and Presenting this Instruction. On Behalf
of the USDA Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management, Thanks for
Watching, And So Long from Phoenix.