**RAW transcript - not yet corrected by mission technical staff.**

**FTS-NASA VOICE**

**Moderator: Trina Ray**

**July 25, 2006**

**1:00 pm CT**

Coordinator: Good afternoon and thank you for standing by.

I would like to inform all participants that today's conference is being
recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time.

Ms. Ray, you may begin.

Trina Ray: Thank you very much.

Welcome everyone to the (Charm Telecon) for July. We're very pleased
today to have with us Dr. Kevin Baines. He's Principal Scientist here at
the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and also Co-Investigator with the Visual
and Infrared Mapping Spectrometer, the VIMS instrument, which is an
imager, and he'll tell us all about the - some of the great results that
this instrument has been taking actually at the (planet center).

And with that, I'll turn it over to Dr. Baines, and of course, always
welcome to take questions during the talk or after the talk. And just as
a reminder to folks, if you press star 6, your phone will be muted; and
if you press star 6, it will unmute, so it toggles on and off. And with
that, I'll turn it over to Kevin.

((Crosstalk))

Kevin Baines: ...glad everybody is joining me today online here. You
know, this Cassini mission to Saturn and it's actually nice once in a
while to talk about the planet Saturn. You know, we're doing so great
stuff with other targets and objects around that Saturn system, the
rings and the satellites and Titan and you name a dozen different things
that have been really fantastic about, but - the smaller objects around
Saturn, but Saturn itself dominates the whole system and it's something
that we tend to forget about.

So what I'm going to try to do is bring people up to speed on what
we\'ve been doing with Saturn since we\'ve gotten there, talk a little -
just a little bit about other people's observations. But you'll see that
the VIMS observations that I'm involved with intimately actually covers
pretty much the gamut of what, you know, the total type of science that
we're doing at Saturn.

So just - I kind of decided to go ahead and just talk about what I
really do with the Visual and Infrared Mapping Spectrometer but there
are aspects, you know, I'll bring in some other aspects as we go along a
little bit of what other people are doing as well.

So the title of your graph here on Page 1 kind of gives you a hint that
there's something about Saturn that we see and what you probably see on
your typical imagery done in the visual.

We are basically (an instrument) that does lots of things at once. We do
the visual to infrared spectra, so we take over 350 colors of the planet
of spanning 0.3 microns, you know, sort of the blue UV part of the
spectrum, all the way past the visual part, all the way out to the
infrared out to 5.0 microns.

And as you get beyond about 3 microns wavelength, you know, at that
point, then the light that you get is dominated - starts to get
dominated more by the heat of the planet itself coming out, you're
seeing the heat of the planet and not sunlight.

And that's been a very useful tool. As you'll see, as we talk through
here, looking at the light itself that Saturn itself generates
internally, and using that to explore the planet as - tends to be
incredibly a good tool for us to actually see what's going on.

So it's a new way of looking at Saturn, no one's really done before from
spacecraft, and we've been using that to our advantage for the last year
or two on the mission that - learning a lot about the 3D structure of
Saturn.

Actually we've just started to scratch the surface here, there's a lot
more to do, and Trina mentioned that I am the - I'm a co-investigator on
the Visual and Infrared Mapping Spectrometer. We have - unfortunately,
we have - well, we do have over 20, I think it's even over 25
co-investigators on this instrument, but in America, I'm the only person
appointed to look at either the atmosphere of Saturn or the atmosphere
of Titan. Now we brought on some other people on the team to help us out
to do Titan since we got the Saturn system.

But from beginning when we started planning this mission back in the
late 80s and early 90s, you know, I'm the only - I'm the first person
involved. So I got a lot to do, I got a lot, you know, and I\'ve
basically been concentrating on this new stuff, new ways of looking at
Saturn, (particularly) out around 5 microns.

And just to orient you a little bit, you know, our eyes, our human eyes,
start at around 0.3 or 0.4 microns and go out to about 0.7 or 0.8
microns, so less than a 1 micron is the wavelength of light that we're
used to. And what this instrument does is, again, expand beyond that and
doesn't just stop at 0.7 or 0.8 microns but goes out to 5 microns,
again, where the heat is.

And so there are a lot of things you can do, and we'll talk about the
different types of things that can be done with this kind of technique,
being able to take spectra, take lots of different colors. And not only
that, but also do imagery. And so our instrument is called the Visual
and Infrared Mapping Spectrometer, and each of those words mean
something. You know, we go from the visual to infrared.

The mapping part means we actually image, and the way we do that is we
actually point at a spot on the planet for a very small amount of time
and then we kind of move these mirrors around and we can paint out a
picture of the planet on our frame. So over a couple of minutes, we can
paint out a picture of the planet. But we just don't do it in one color,
we don't do a black and white picture, and we do a lot better than your
normal colored picture where you're actually getting, 352 I think it is,
colors simultaneously.

So we get 352 different colors of the same scene, and then that's called
an image cube. You'll hear me talking about an image cube where you have
X and Y be a picture showing the different clouds or whatever. But then
you can (skew) through it, you can actually poke through that that book
of picture let's say and go to another, you know, go one page down, find
another color, and then find another color. And you can actually do
spectra by just (skewing) the book of or the cube and point out the
(inspector). So there's different techniques that we can use.

And once you have an instrument like this around a planet, you can
(quirk) it. If you get closer to the planet, then you can really start
doing some detailed analysis of features and watch things like storm
systems coming and going.

The other thing that you can do from the spacecraft that you can't do
from earth is that you can kind of walk around the planet and look at it
from different angles relative to the sun. And so you can go behind the
planet, look back at it, see the night side of the planet, or you can go
off to the side and look at the limbs, maybe shimmering in the sunlight,
if the sun's behind it, almost an eclipse, you can see a shimmering
limb, and that tells you a lot about the higher level of particles. It
also tells you about the nature of the particles themselves that are in
the atmosphere, the different types of clouds and hazes and maybe the
smog particles that are there on the, you know, tell the composition,
but more importantly, for some science, you could tell the particle
sizes and how much stuff there is, what the burden that's been created
of hazes and clouds.

So by walking around the planet basically and looking at it from
different angles, doing what some people might call a CAT scan of the
planet like we do with patients in the earth, doing a CAT scan of
Saturn, you could actually, you know, tell a lot more.

So there's a lot of things you can do with this instrument by just
putting it in different vantage points and in looking at Saturn. And
then of course, you can go over time and do movies. And you can look at
how clouds are moving around, you can look at things evolving. And a
recent result which I'm just writing about now is that we can do
seasonal variations and watch the seasons of Saturn change.

And if you look at our first picture on the cover here, you can see that
the southern hemisphere is a lot brighter than the northern hemisphere.
Sort of a greenish tint to it whereas the northern hemisphere is sort of
reddish. And in fact, if you look closely up in that limb, you can
actually see these streaks going across from upper left to lower right,
reddish streaks, and that's actually the shadows, and this - I'll
explain what we got here. But you\'re seeing the shadows of the rings on
the northern hemisphere.

And so the northern hemisphere right now is in winter, and so not only
does it lack the sun because it's winter but also those pesky shadows
from the rings come in and shadow the planet, so it's seeing even less
light even though the hemisphere is (unintelligible) in the northern
hemisphere where very little light is getting in there because of the -
both because it is winter and because shadows just cover it up anyway,
but what little from it it might get. And in the south it's a lot
brighter.

And so Saturn has a tilt about like earth and so it has seasons, you
know, as you could expect, and the seasons in some ways are more
dramatic because of these rings that come in and shadow the hemisphere,
that's in winter hemisphere.

And so we'll go - I'm going to the next slide, but that's sort of the
preamble of what we're up to and what this instrument can do.

So Slide Number. 2 \-- I can get to here \-- here's the kind of things I
want to cover, the agenda, the Cassini overview. We're going to talk for
a minute about the general goals at Saturn, what atmospheric scientists
kind of want to do with Saturn with all the different instruments, and
I'll talk more particularly about my instrument, but this is - I'll try
to review all this is going to do.

And then the general methods, the general techniques, different
instruments, what they can do, and we'll spend at least five or ten
minutes on that. Then we'll go to the VIMS instrument, I've already
given you a short overview about what VIMS can do, but we'll talk more
in detail.

And then we'll talk about three different areas that we can use this
instrument for on Saturn: one is determine the composition of the clouds
and of the atmosphere itself, what kinds of molecules are there; the
cloud structure of the atmosphere; how we can do three-dimensional
(cartography) of clouds, talk about clouds at several different levels
in the atmosphere and how we can pierce through one cloud and get down
to another cloud and really start doing a 3D study of Saturn.

And by the way, these same techniques are being used currently on
another planet \-- Venus Express is at Venus right now, and I'm also a
scientist on that particular mission, and we're using the same
techniques there too to do a 3D study of Venus.

So what I'm going to be talking about today is starting to be used
widely among different planets as well and we're starting to use it as
well from Earth-based observations of Jupiter as well as on Galileo
observations that were taken a few years ago that I was involved with, I
was also a co-investigator on the Galileo.

NIMS instrument, and NIMS was a precursor event. NIMS was the first
generation and VIMS is the second generation of this sort of spectral
imaging instrument that can span a wide range of wavelengths.

And then the final thing we'll talk about is once you see clouds, well,
then you can watch it move and we can do winds. And indeed what we can
do with this particular instrument is we can see winds at several
different levels. If you have clouds that you can track, and in
particular we\'ve had lots of clouds that we can track in a whole new
regime of the planet that we've never tracked before, and that is the
ammonia hydrosulfide cloud - the ammonia hydrosulfide cloud level at
around two bars of pressure which is about twice the pressure of the
ammonia clouds everybody hasn't seen for centuries on Saturn. We can
pierce through that and get down the next cloud level and we can watch
the storms down there and we can watch how those - watch the winds and
how winds are blowing.

And once you get winds at two different levels from the planet or more,
then you can start talking about - really in detail about the global
circulation and what's powering the planet and how you get wind currents
in the full 3-dimensional circulation of the planet. We really can start
to, you know, (weigh in) on what's going on with the planet itself and
even extrapolate the deeper depths down the road of what's going on in
the deep planet of Saturn.

And I guess I should review a little bit about Saturn. Saturn is a gas
giant. It's similar to Jupiter, very similar to Jupiter in its
composition, but smaller. And as a gas giant, it doesn't have much of a
surface; it's mostly fluid. And you have an atmosphere that is very
thick, roughly a thousand kilometers down into it. It might - it can
condense itself into a sort of a liquid, a metallic hydrogen maybe type
of a liquid. But still, that's a liquid.

So you go even further down, you need to go something like three - 4/5
the way down into the planet, the last 10% or 20% of the planet radius,
you might have something you might call solid. That is the earth-like
kind of substance.

So when people talk about landing on Saturn, there's really no way to
land on Saturn. You can't, you'll just keep falling until you perhaps
you hit this liquid ocean, I don't know if you could float there. But if
you hit anything solid, you're going to even sink to that. So there is
no way you can really just land on a rocky surface underneath these
giant planets, it's basically just a gas giant.

But therefore, it's a 3-dimensional object and so the heat that gets
generated that we'll be talking about a little bit later on, it's
generated initially deep down in that planet. That's several tens of
thousands of kilometers down in places that we'll probably never get to
with vehicles. But there are ways to learn about that region from other
techniques and we may discuss that as well.

So the spacecraft in orbit gives you a chance to maybe (parse) together
what's going on in the deep interior and particularly things like the
magnetic - magnet camera on board can help tell you about what's going
in the deep interior because they could map out (the magnetic field)
which is a manifestation of what's going on in the deep interior,
although that's - a lot of the physics of that is still not really
known. But by mapping it out, the idea is to help learn about what's
going on.

You can also use gravity, you can use the fact that when we get close to
a planet with a spacecraft like Cassini, you'll see colorations and
discolorations, you know, you go swooping by the planet and maybe
certain longitude or certain latitudes. In particular, as you go in the
latitudes, you might get a different pull than you expect, and that
tells you then about what's going on with that solid surface deep down
and the nugget in the middle of the planet.

So why don't I just review quickly about giant planets, that they are
different than what we call terrestrial planets like the Earth or Mars
or Venus where you have basically a solid planet with just roughly thin
veneer of atmosphere that isn't thick, isn't that thick compared to the
whole planet itself.

Saturn is definitely, you know, as Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune,
basically a gas giant with just a small little nugget of rock in the
bottom of it.

Okay. So let's go. So that's basically on the agenda page, I guess it's
Page 2, we go to Page 3 at this point. And I'm just reviewing here
quickly the types of science that we want to do, that the Cassini
mission wants to do at Saturn, using our array of instruments. And I'll
talk briefly about the other instruments in a minute.

But the general goal for this mission at Saturn is to learn about the
structure of Saturn and to learn how the structure perhaps evolves or
moves or what happens with it. So we have thermal structures,
temperatures, that means what the temperature structure of the planet.

Saturn, by the way, as Jupiter and as Neptune, is warmer than you'd
expect. That is if you just look at Saturn from the earth and saw the
metal light that was hitting, you know, where Saturn is and how far away
it is from the sun, and so you calculate very easily with the sun
sitting there, delivering its energy, and then looking at how much gets
reflected back from the planet, you could say, well, such a fraction of
sunlight is actually getting into the planet and staying there, that is,
it's a power source for the temperatures. And so from that, you could
calculate what the temperature should be. And you would find that Saturn
is not in equilibrium, what we call thermal equilibrium. It's not at a
temperature that you'd expect it to be. Instead, it's warmer that you
expect it to be.

So it has its own internal heat source. And it's pretty substantial on
Saturn, about a factor of two, more than the sun. So the sun's actually
a minority partner on how much energy gets into Saturn. And so Saturn
generates its own heat and basically is warm below.

(Kent Kramer): Can you \-- this is (Kent Kramer).

Kevin Baines: Yes.

(Kent Kramer): Can you estimate roughly how much heat comes from Saturn
compared to the sun?

Kevin Baines: Well, it's roughly a factor of two, and I need to look it
up, it's been years since I\'ve looked that number up, but it's roughly
a factor of two. It's substantial. It's not 10%, it's not 20%, it's more
like half of the energy that you see coming from Saturn when you
actually do measure temperatures and other things, roughly, you know,
half of that has to be contributed by Saturn itself.

And the progression here, Jupiter also, roughly a factor of two but
Saturn is even more in a (fractional) sense. And then the winner in the
solar system on the score is Neptune. Neptune actually puts up four -
three to four times as much heat - as much energy, you know, basically
the energy leaving the planet because of its temperatures.

When you look at it - the way you do this by the way is you measure way
out in the infrared, you look at the thermal - all the energies - all
the energies spanning the whole entire spectral range out to the far
infrared, let's say 50 microns, out to 50 microns or so.

When you integrate over all that light, you'd say, well, wait a minute,
putting out - in Neptune's case four times as much energy as it gets
from the sun.

So the other planets in general aren't in similar equilibrium with the
sun. The only one that might be is Uranus. Uranus, the (unintelligible)
bars still have in equilibrium with the sun. But there's still some
outside chance that even it might be - have an internal energy source
that warms itself up.

And for each planet, by the way, the speculation or the best theories
right now have it that each planet has a different energy source,
several different ways you could get energy out of these things. And it
doesn't seem to be consistent, different from one planet to another.
Each planet has its own type of internal energy source.

And an aside, you know, a few years ago I was involved in a debate here
at JPL about looking for extrasolar planets. This is back in the early
80's actually when we were just starting to think about how we could
look for extrasolar planets. And there are techniques out there that can
be used very effectively to find hot planets like this that are so hot
compared to what they should be. And you can imagine that if you have
more energy leaving a planet in equilibrium that's good for you trying
to find these things.

And I was shot down in one talk by some other astronomers and thought,
well, gee, a planet should be in equilibrium (with) the stars, and I
kept saying, no, the outer planets aren't. And the bottom line was we
decided to be conservative and say, well, we're going to develop
techniques that find a planet that's in equilibrium, but the example I
(unintelligible) them is three out our nine planets and three out of the
four major planets, the easiest ones, you know, the biggest planets are
the easiest ones to see anyway if you\'re looking at extrasolar planets.
Three out of the four in our solar system aren't in equilibrium \--
Neptune is four times out of equilibrium.

So, you know, it's something to - a fact here that most people don't
realize, that these planets do put out their own energy. And none of it
by the way, in case you're wondering, none of it is nuclear, not of it
is stellar power, okay? It's all other types of manifestations.

In the case of Saturn, it seems to be that the conditions in the
atmosphere is such that helium is coming out of the atmosphere. Helium,
you know, the major constituents of Saturn and of all these other
planets, all these other major planets or gas giants, the major
constituents are hydrogen and helium. Between the two, hydrogen and
helium, you've got about 99% of what's in all these planets, okay? So
the main constituent is hydrogen and helium, as on the sun.

So this is why we like to talk about these other planets, maybe you can
talk about them being failed stars because they are made out of roughly
the same composition. I mean very close to the same composition that the
sun has and particularly the fuel of hydrogen that you could imagine
could turn into nuclear fuel and, you know, fusion and the power of the
planet.

But you need a lot more pressure for it to happen, it needs to be a lot
bigger planet full of gravity, crushes the hydrogen more, and you get
higher temperatures and you can basically ignite the hydrogen. So that's
not happening in these planets.

But what is happening in Saturn is a different effect and that is that
the helium embedded inside the hydrogen under the conditions of Saturn,
and it doesn't seem to be happening in other planets, but on this
planet, the helium tends to come out and rain out, it tends to form a
little drop. This is now deep in the interior, this is not happening up
at the top where we're looking but halfway down in the planet or so. You
get the hydrogen and the helium basically dropping out of the
atmosphere, falling out as rain. Well, that rain has to then, you know,
fall down and hit the solid surface at the bottom, tens of thousands of
kilometers below. And if people have done their calculations and have
convinced themselves that the helium that's raining down could generate
the energy when it smashes in the surface down below, it's got that
energy, it's kinetic energy, you know, falling down a potential energy
from above, that has to convert to something so you get heat.

And so the idea here is really just helium coming out of the atmosphere,
raining, hitting the bottom of the planet basically that then it
radiates out the sea. So that's what the current taking is of what the
energy source is for why Saturn warms itself up twice as, you know,
twice the energy coming out of Saturn than from the sun.

So learning about that, and then the question of, "Wait minute, maybe we
should look at the temperature structure as a function of latitude and
see if it's varied. Maybe the heat leaks out more in one place than
another." And that's one thing that this mission could do, is sort of,
is it isotropic, that is, they're coming out all over the planet at the
same way or is it coming up preferentially (instant) latitude. And
that's, between different instruments we have, that's one thing we're
going to do.

And then the process of that power coming out, it obviously, at least in
my mind, creates some dynamics and creates weather. As you have this
heat coming out from below, it should generate some, weather in
particularly convective kinds of motions. So you could imagine just like
in a boiling pot of water, you get to heat the water from below and then
it boils up and you get convective cells basically inside the pot.

Well, that's what happens here, and it's a very effective way of
transmitting heat on the earth as well with convection, as you know,
because the sun beats down on the surface of the earth and then heats up
the air from below and then the air has to rise and you get convection.
So the same kind of things should be happening outside when we get
convection. And I will show you some pictures later on that - that
indicates that.

Composition, well, in this case, what we'd like to learn from whole
mission is, you know, what is Saturn made of exactly. I just mentioned
that 99% of it is hydrogen helium, but the trace constituents leftovers
the exciting things that really can do a lot to chemistry and really,
you know, help - you'd learn also as well about the origin of Saturn and
the origin of our whole solar system and the origin of the earth even.
You can even compare the trace constituents in Saturn, compare them to
what's on the earth, and try to figure out why Saturn has more or less
of things than we do on the earth. And you can talk about perhaps how a
material was delivered by comets or by asteroids (unintelligible).

And so learning about the composition of all these planets, particularly
big reservoirs, the largest planets, is important for understanding
where the whole solar system came from.

So there's lots of good reasons why we want to learn about composition,
the chemists want to learn about it too just to sort of figure out what
the full chemistry is and how that (roll this in) effect.

On Titan, this is a very important subject for the nearby satellite,
Titan which in many ways to me is like a giant planet because they're a
very thick and it's an exciting place where we can really watch the
chemistry go on and we can understand the whole thing. But the
composition in general of the atmosphere is a very important thing.

And then I mentioned earlier the internal structure, we're trying to get
at internal structure because of the, you know, the heat, you know, why
is the heat generated. And part of the answers comes from learning about
the general structure.

And again, I would also - a whole slew of questions come out of internal
structure, again, about formation, evolution, how the planet formed, how
did they evolve. And if we could understand the planets in our solar
system, then that'll help us understand roughly a hundred planets that
we've now seen in the, you know, already in the extrasolar planetary
realm. And of course we're finding new planets all the time and it's out
there. So we just have one set of planets here that we're trying to
understand the detail as much as possible so then we can expand on to
the - into the universe and understand all the other planets and see
what kind of, you know, how planets vary from one place to another.

But - so and the internal structure, most of that again is field
experiments, things like magnetic fields, gravitational fields, those
are the main ways to learn about the deep, deep, you know, interior
let's say below the first thousand kilometers. Above the - in the top
thousand kilometers, again, instruments like VIMS can tell a lot. And
even though we can only see down roughly in the top hundred kilometers,
a 100 or 200 kilometers.

So there's another factor of five or so that we can really, you know,
infer about by learning about the top skin of the atmosphere. We can
actually, you know, feel pretty good I think thinking on extrapolating
on down even further (unintelligible) in the top thousand kilometers of
the planet \-- everything, radio transfer, you know, type information
that we're getting out of remote sensing. We\'ve always sent this
information out of what we see in the composition in the clouds.

All right, so those are the basic topics here that we're trying to do in
Cassini. And the next view graph, Number 4.

Man: Can I ask...

Kevin Baines: Yup.

Man: ...just one quick question to follow up on the heat. I'm wondering
how far out it goes. Does it have any influence at all on like in
Enceladus or Titan? Or is it...

Kevin Baines: Not now. I mean of course in the early - first billion
years, there's all sort of speculations that these planets that they are
still accreting, you know, they're still forming, then they were very
hot. And you could imagine that in - what might be called the late
bombardment stage, on earth we had that in the (unintelligible) who
knows what really happened in the (unintelligible) but you can imagine
that, you know, maybe in the early days, you know, four billion years
ago, four to five billion, on those early days of the planet, that maybe
Saturn formed maybe Enceladus that are forming. But then some last
bombardment of asteroids came in and really heated up that Saturn enough
to affect the nearby objects, and it could be. But also on that same
stage, of course, since a lot would have probably gotten smashed as
well, so - by the bombardment.

But since, you know, things settled down out there, you know, say three
billion years ago, just to have a number. You know probably not. I
don't - it has not been like, you know, like in stars where you have
these red giant (stages) come and go. No.

Saturn is still pretty close. I mean if you just measure the average
temperature, it's got an effective temperature of about a 140 Kelvin or
so. So that's very cold. And, you know, ammonia freezes there.

So in terms of doing things, let's say warming up Enceladus enough to
melt all that surface, you know, surface ices, you know that's not going
to happen.

Enceladus is a very intriguing thing with its own internal heat of some
type that people are trying to figure out to figure out why we have
liquid water inside of Enceladus. That's a very - that's probably the
biggest single discovery of this mission, that (unintelligible). So
that's an incredible thing, and nobody would have thought there'd be a
satellite there that could do that, so.

But anyway, no, there's no way that I could think of that Saturn itself,
you know, in its steady state kind of nature could have done anything to
Enceladus.

You know, by the way, if it did something to Enceladus, it would have
done something to the other objects around, and we'd have definitely
sign of that, you know. By the ways, these moons are all - the moons are
all locked, tightly locked to the planets. And that is that they - the
same face of the moon, always faces the planet. Just like in here, our
moon always had the same face towards the earth and it's a natural
consequence of satellites around planets that, you know, that's the
expected state and indeed I think all, but a couple of cases, that's
what we see throughout the solar system.

So if you had Saturn doing something weird like putting on a lot of
heat, you'd have one - the Saturn facing, you know, face on all these
different satellites all doing the same thing and showing some exotic,
you know, strange markings or whatever based on Saturn heating up or
melting it or something. So we don't see that; we don't see any evidence
of that.

Man: Yeah. But why I ask about Enceladus, because it's much closer.

Kevin Baines: Yeah, okay. Nobody's - in fact, Enceladus right now is,
you know, like big snow-covered thing and all that fresh ice falling
down, it really is glistening in its white snow. So, you know, it's -
yeah. No, we're not able to see any - the effects of that.

But again, over the (eon), I mean I can imagine something happening,
some cataclysm somewhere that's ended, you know, (unintelligible) but
nothing really recent.

All right. So how do we achieve these goals? So I talked a lot about
temperatures, compositions, structures and general stuff. So let me go
over how we do it.

Remote sensing is the basic technique that this mission is doing.
Another way to do it by the way, and I think we mentioned - yeah, we
mentioned it down below (within C2) I mean of course there's a big push,
science always like to get - instead of looking from afar, we really
like to go get the material and look at it (in C2) with our
laboratories, just some laboratory equipment. Get in there, grab a
sample, and really understand it. That's very expensive to do
particularly with the other planets, so we haven't done that with
Saturn.

We did do it with Jupiter. We had a probe that went in Jupiter, the
Galileo probe. And it did a very effective job at learning about in
particular the noble gases, and that helps you learn about where these
planets came from. And in Jupiter's case, you know, we saw the different
types of molecules there. Also we saw and learned a lot about the
composite, you know, the chemically reactive elements, and that was kind
of interesting.

But, you know, insidious way to go, but if you can't afford it because
it does - it's expensive, and I\'ve got to say that, you know, we were
so lucky that the Europeans decided, you know, we all got together and
did this mission as joint mission to the (unintelligible) to Saturn
because they put a probe on but everybody wanted that probe to go to
Titan. I think that was the right idea because we already had Jupiter as
sample, so if you only have one shot at something, let's go to a very
exotic place called Titan and really sample that. Also it's a lot easier
to put a probe in the Titan than it is to the other planets.

You know, when we went into Jupiter, just as an aside, we went in there
at over 100,000 miles an hour with that probe. And over half the way to
the probe was the heat shield to keep from melting. I mean it's really
hard to get into a big planet because of the gravitational attraction is
so big, you get at such a high speed that then when you smash in the
atmosphere, it's hard to get rid of that heat, and so you need to carry
huge heat shields which means that you need a huge rocket which means -
I mean the cost of everything just really, you know, escalates.

So it was really kind of a nice thing to go to Titan. Titan it turns out
is like the easiest object to get into. It's like a big pillow, that
huge atmosphere on a body with very little gravity. So if you're a
neophyte space-faring society and you want to go to - to find the
easiest thing to go to, well, the Europeans had the right thing, they
picked Titan as the easiest thing to go to, and yet it was - it had an
incredibly good science value. I mean it's something nobody knew about,
and so you learn a lot, fundamental new stuff, (revolutioning) the stuff
while you also encounter a planet that is pretty simple, relatively
speaking, to enter into.

So that was a good job and they - that mission was pulled off
excellently and worked great. So we, you know, they spent quite a bit of
money on that program, put it in the Titan.

So, so far, Saturn, we don't have a probe in the Saturn. There's a lot
of - I am involved with several different committees looking into future
missions that we could do and probes into Saturn and Neptune and other
places is high on the list, the things that we'd like to do down the
road. But so far, it's, you know, not happening. It's just a glimmer,
it's just a dream that a lot of us have, but someday hopefully we will
do that.

Well, getting back to what we can do on Cassini, and that is that we
have - do an incredible job of remote sensing. I mentioned already the
VIMS instrument.

We also have the ISS camera, the imaging substance which I'm sure you
guys have seen a lot of images from them. They can do the visual part of
the spectrum and they have several filters. They don't do all the
wavelengths, they've basically picked and chosen the most diagnostically
link and have a number of colors they can do and also do some
polarization and basically get straight images. But their big forte is
they can do high, very high spatial resolution.

So just to give you a feeling on that, their spatial resolution is
typically 80 times better than what VIMS can do. So they see things with
80 times better acuity. And so where we see something spanning 1 pixel
they see its spanning 80 pixels. And then because, you know, pictures
we'd like - is really the area of something you want to talk about, so
if you have something that's got x-dimension and y-dimension, you know,
for every 6400 80-squared, you know, (unintelligible) we get 1 pixel.

So the way VIMS makes up for it is just to wait till we see the white of
their eyes. I mean I - we try to use most of our data volume when we get
close to our objects and really look at it, you know, it's like, you
know, a myopic person like me, if it's like taking my glasses, if can't
wear my glasses, then I\'m going to wait till I get it close to
something to pick images. And that's what we try to do with VIMS to make
up for the lack of spatial resolution that we can have.

But unfortunately, when you try to get close to a planet or a satellite
or whatever, you\'re only there for a few minutes when you\'re up close,
and most of the time you're far away.

So this then, you know, the way VIMS can do high spatial resolution,
yes, we get glimpses of the things with pretty high spatial resolution
on all these different objects, but we only can do it very temporarily
whereas the imaging people can stare and look and see things for many
hours or days even whereas we can't.

So there's a use of multi types of instruments whereas ISS has a limited
set of wavelengths they can to spatial really well and really watch
things move or map out geology and planets, so they can do a lot of
great things, and we're very complementary with each other then because
we do more compositional things and in a different spectral range as
well that can tell you a lot about what\'s going on with, you know, with
the composition or the aspects of you\'re looking at.

Then there\'s the ultraviolet imaging spectrometer, that's UVIS. That
can put together an image but usually it's more spectral related and
it's (cruder). But it does have, in terms of spatial, it's relatively
(crude), but it goes way down, I think below 1 micron, sorry, 0.1
micron, and there\'s a lot of neat physics that goes on down there they
can do in diagnostic. They can diagnose chemicals in the atmosphere down
there. So there's use for them as well, they can do things that people
can't do.

And all of us, you know, UVIS and VIMS, we can do, I don't know if we
mentioned that, we could do occultation. Not only do we look, you know,
make maps of planets by looking at reflected sunlight, and that's the
first bullet which said Reflected Solar Radiation, but, you know, you
can look at the sun through - during an occultation or during sort of an
eclipse.

You can look at the sun through the atmosphere, you know, as the sun
kind of disappears behind the atmosphere of these bodies. You can watch
with - how the sunlight peers out and you can then talk about really -
get really detailed financers on what the trades chemicals are. And
Vince can do that and UVIS can do that.

So that's another technique that we use to try and understand what's in
these atmospheres and what the hazes are doing, because you see every
little haze particle when you\'re looking, you\'re skimming along
(unintelligible) planet with sun just setting behind you - in front of
you, you can really see every little particle basically.

And so we just start using this technique, and we got some data down
about two months ago that are really fantastic (unintelligible) and
there\'s a group in France that is now looking at the VIMS data on the
occultation, and they'll be publishing something soon on that.

Let's see. Then (unintelligible) reflected sunlight, but then I
mentioned earlier, the other kind of light is the internally produced
radiation, the thermal radiation from inside the planet, the fact that
the planet puts out its own heat, you can use that to a great effect to
plum the planet.

The CIRS, the Composite Infrared Spectrometer, (unintelligible) CIRS
starts, and I think the next figure we'll get to in a second shows the
spectral range, CIRS does the whole spectral range, I think they even,
as I said, about 7 or 8 microns, and they go on out to 50 or 100, I
forgot what it stopped, but basically once you get beyond 5 microns,
you\'re basically looking mostly at temperatures, you\'re not doing
aerosols too well because the aerosol part of it small and you really
can't see them very well with CIRS. You can do something with it, but
you can't - it's really more difficult.

What they\'re really good at is looking at temperatures at different
levels in the atmosphere, starting at about one bar going on up. They
can't go deeper than that really, but they can at least see how the
temperatures vary over the planet. And once you see how the temperatures
vary over the planet at several different levels, well, that again tells
you a lot of circulation and how the planet is equilibrating its
temperatures. You warm up one hemisphere during the summer, how does
then the year flow around to kind equilibrate the planet?

You know, in general, planets want to reach a similar equilibrium where
the temperatures are basically uniform over the planet, they can and
they try to do that. And that's why you have weather - it's one of the
reasons why weather is - air is trying to, you know, generally speaking,
over the globe, trying to get to equilibrium. And unfortunately, the
planet moves around and the sun is hitting different places, so it can't
ever get that equilibrium. So you have these seasons and, you know,
different types of storms and weathers affected by that.

And CIRS can actually measure the temperatures, you know, summertime,
wintertime, you know, really get a nice view, a very detailed view of
what\'s going on with the temperatures over the planet, you know, all,
you know, from pole to pole, as well as at several different levels. So
it's very (diagnostic) temperatures and then the dynamics as well.

So with VIMS, we use the internal heat, and I'll show you that as well,
and we actually also do dynamics by watching clouds basically move
(unintelligible) technique, you see clouds, you watch them form and
dissipate, but you also watch it move and you could see what the wind is
\-- that way. That's another way of talking about wind.

I guess I haven't really connected the dots here. Once you have
temperatures over the planet, there\'s relatively simple mathematical
formula that you can use to then predict the wind shear, that is, how
does the winds vary with altitude, (unintelligible) direction, the
east-west direction.

So you could predict how the wind should increase or decrease with
altitude if you know what the temperature structure is over the planet.
And CIRS measures temperatures so they can come up with what's called
the thermal wind equation and they can - and you can use the thermal
wind equation to predict how the - what the shear should be as a
function of altitude.

Now what VIMS can do is actually look at the clouds moving at different
altitudes as well, and we can see, do we get the same types of wind
shear, does the wind vary with altitude at the cloud - by looking at
clouds, we can tell, doesn't move, and then what (unintelligible) move,
and then compare it to what the predictions are (unintelligible) from
CIRS by looking - where they've looked at temperatures.

And the difference, if you\'re seeing differences, then that tells you a
process is happening, because the thermal wind equation tells you where
the equilibrium (unintelligible) should be.

So, you know, if you wait long enough, given these temperatures that
they measure, then, yes, indeed you should see a certain type of shear
as a function of altitude. But if things are still in the process of
moving around and getting equilibrated, then they won't - you won't get
those feeds when you look at the clouds.

And so that's one thing that VIMS can do. VIMS can look at the clouds,
how they\'re actually moving, compare it to the temperatures that CIRS
see, and see if something is out equilibrium. And then that tells you
about processes they're having.

And that's one of the things that we'd like to do on VIMS, haven't
gotten there yet because it's so busy, but that's went down the road,
that's the kind of thing that we can try - use to try to understand the
whole circulation system of Saturn \-- are things in equilibrium or not,
and if not, then why, and try to figure out what types of processes are
going on.

And you can imagine, when we use this - you can imagine, like I said
before, we have internal heat, and both with Saturn and Jupiter, my own
personal speculation is there are leaks coming out of the inside of both
of these planets that then disturbed the weather, and it's something
nobody's considered, I mean, I\'ve been (using that) for 20 years but
nobody listened to me.

I just, you know, my own speculation is that there\'s little heat
sources just like volcanoes on earth, you know, Mauna Kea is there in
the middle of the Pacific Ocean, a little leak of heat of - from inside
the coming out and creating geology that nobody would expect and
creating island.

And I think in all these other planets, if you have some inhomogeneities
into what heat comes out (unintelligible) the weather, and that's
something that I think we're going to try to look for on this mission,
so down the road. But nothing's happened yet, but we are collecting the
data, so the data will be there in archives and some future grad student
will probably really study this.

Okay, so that's - oh, emissions by (unintelligible) particle. That's...

Man: Excuse me. Dr. Baines?

Kevin Baines: Yes, uh-huh.

Man: Do you think that this might explain the heat sources for the other
planets as well?

Kevin Baines: No, not - the helium coming out and turning in to
raindrops basically and falling - no, that's not what's happening. In
Jupiter, we think, this is the - Jupiter is what we meant, speculated
that it's just (unintelligible) of the planet still contracting. It's
still kind of collapsing on itself. And so that's the general feeling on
Jupiter.

Neptune, what was it? I\'ve forgotten where (unintelligible) the other
explanation I forgot. I'll try to remember where it was. It wasn't in
either of these two.

And I don't think, you know, Neptune is still a puzzle. Neptune, you
know - but there was something that somebody came up with, but nobody
really knows, but by looking at the structure of Neptune, it's not the
helium, it's not that happening, and Neptune is too small to be still
contracting, so we get a third source and I can't remember what, you
know, (unintelligible) people have come up with, but it's not - it's not
either of these two.

Man: Okay.

Kevin Baines: But the problem - now, Uranus, by the way, there\'s - Dave
Stevenson at Caltech believes that Uranus may just be temporary, that
Uranus has, you know, is in equilibrium. Now it doesn't seem
(unintelligible) and he's speculating that, actually it just bottled up
right now, and if you wait a couple of million years or, I don't know,
100 million years, whatever it's going to take, you'll find that
whatever bottled up will dissipate, and then boom, you\'re going to get
all the heat coming out. So at that point it looks like Neptune.

So, you know, it may just be a temporary thing why Uranus and it may
have to do with why Uranus is (unintelligible) side and it's got all -
it's kind of linking all these things together.

So it's - that's an intriguing place - I mean all these places are
intriguing, but, you know, why is Uranus different? Well, we don't know,
but Uranus is (unintelligible) side and a very strange tilt, and so
maybe it's all connected together with them and - but we don't know.

I'll try to remember what the Neptune - what the latest Neptune is, but
it's none of these. It's different for each one.

Man: Okay, thank you.

Kevin Baines: Yeah.

Let's see - okay. So we (unintelligible) I mean another thing that we
can do, if you look in certain wavelengths and light, you can see
Aurora, you can see the effect of the sun coming in and smashing its
solar wind into the planet energetic particles. These are charged
particles that come in and, if you can imagine, there'll be charged
particles coming in in electron or proton, and it comes in and it hits
this neutral atmosphere full of methane and hydrogen and helium, you can
definitely create chemistry and all sorts of effects.

And so these energetic particles that come in do several things. They
create Aurora just, you know, immediately, that you can see. And because
these planets have magnetic fields, what it does, sort of the magnetic
field kind of directs all these charged particles come smashing at the
pole and you get Aurora just like in the Earth where the preferential
kind of light is just around the pole area, the polar region, not
usually at the equator. So - and we see the same effects at Saturn and
at Jupiter, you know, that you have these many fields directing.

So you can learn about Aurora or you can learn about the solar wind and
the interaction of solar wind with the atmosphere. And particularly in
Jupiter's case it's really pronounced, in Saturn it's there as well we
think, where when you get these particles coming in, again, it can
disrupt the molecules that are there and then you can create a whole
bunch of chemistry.

And on Jupiter, we have what's called the polar caps of Jupiter, where
if you look in certain wavelengths of light, you need to kind of look in
certain wavelengths of light, and I'll talk about this in a minute as we
get down, but you look in places where Jupiter should be dark. You look
in a place where a planet should not reflect back light at all because
the gases in the atmosphere absorbs the light.

So any photons that come in should have been absorbed and - but in the
case of Jupiter, there\'s wavelength of light - several wavelengths of
light you\'re going to look at, and you say, well, Jupiter should absorb
all that because it's got molecules that absorb that light. But yet you
see the pole shimmering away. And that's because there\'s very, very,
very high altitude aerosols there that reflect back the light before the
gases around there can absorb it because the clouds are so high.

And these (unintelligible) show up in these types of images because the
clouds are so thin. They\'re very optically thin. You don't really
notice them. You can't notice them at all until you go to this
particular wavelength where they are just so high that they do reflect
back the light.

And so that's - and why are they so high over the pole? Well, we think
it's due to this Aurora effect of energetic particles coming in of
smashing in, particularly methane, disrupting methane, and then you
start having chemistry where you can build up big long polymers of
hydrocarbons, and you can eventually get the molecules so big that it
has become a solid or maybe a liquid - but it has - it can't be a gas
anymore and it creates a cloud, so, and sometime we can call that smog.
But anyway.

So basically you have a smog-like crowd over the poles of Jupiter.
Saturn has some smog-like clouds as well but not as pronounced, in fact
nothing like what Jupiter has. But we're, you know, and it's because
magnetic field isn't as strong and it's actually more concentrated, the
magnetic field seems to be, it's more at the pole - right near the pole
rather, being spread all over, a lot more latitude, where I think on
Jupiter the - because it's set over maybe down to 60 degrees latitude on
Jupiter, it gives more area that create these, you know, more, you know,
more opportunity, more of these smog-like cloud forms.

Anyway, but - so energetic particle is exciting for all sorts of
different reasons. And all these different instruments that I\'ve listed
here can actually do something with that. And in VIMS we can actually
see the emission of a certain molecule called H3+ which is a sort of a
charged hydrogen type of molecule which emits light, and we can see that
pretty well. But we\'ve learned in our mission that you can only do it
with long integrations. We need to sit and stare and do one-second
integrations, and because that we\'ve only got one image so far that
really shows that really well, and there's papers being written on that
right now. But over the next few months, I\'ve redesigned some of the
observations that we do so that we can actually do so that we can
actually do these long integrations, get better view of the Aurora.

And right now, Cassini has been in the equatorial (plane) which has been
great for a lot of the (stuff) I\'m going to show you here because if
you\'re over the equator that means you\'re over the ring plane and that
means the ring themselves don't cover the planet. As you start getting
away from the equator, then the rings themselves are covering the
planet. And so I mentioned before that the northern atmosphere is
already covered by the shadow. Well, if you\'re up sort of flying around
let's say 30 degrees north latitude, you know, you look below you and I
get shadows below you, if you\'re looking at - trying to look at
reflected sunlight relative to shadow that you can\'t see the ring, and
then you look south and now you've got the ring itself covering the
south.

So from an atmosphere point of view, we love being over the equator,
over the rings. So the rings themselves, we don't - like paper thin and
we can't really them, and they go away except for the shadow effect.

The other place we like to be though is right over the pole
(unintelligible) straight down and the rings are already (awake) in that
aspect, and now you can look at these (unintelligible) stuff. And right
now Cassini is starting to climb up toward the pole.

So within six months or so, we ought to be getting down some images of
the polar regions. And a lot of the polar circulation storms and things,
within the next six months or a year, you\'re going to see a lot of
that. It would be very exciting. We will definitely be able to study
this Aurora from that vantage point a lot better than we have been.

And this is the first mission that we\'ve had that really is going to
stay on the polar orbit for a while, but we can only study polar
effects. (Unintelligible) never was able to get up to the pole, we just
kind of stay at the equator as it's easier that way. And it takes a lot
of effort here to get to the pole. And the way we do it we use Titan -
(encounter) Titan which is a big giant satellite, it's bigger than our
moon, so it's able to torque us around, but you got to encounter it
many, many times. So it takes a while to study, almost a year to really
get to the polar region.

What we're doing now I believe is getting up sort of like we're going to
get the mid-latitude sort of what a space (unintelligible) hang around,
mid-latitudes, but then we can back I think to the equator. And then at
the end of our nominal mission a couple of years from now, we're going
to then climb up and be up around 70 degrees, even go higher than that,
70 degrees latitude. That is the sub-spacecraft point, looking down from
the spacecraft. At one point we'll be looking down at 70 degrees
latitude. And that's pretty high up. And that's where the end of the
nominal mission, we're going to be left.

However, now there's going to be a - it's pretty certain we're going to
have an extended mission at least two years, maybe longer, and we'll
start from that vantage point, and the scientists were all debating what
to do then from - do we come back down the equator, there\'s a lot of
(unintelligible) that could still be done on Titan and other places, and
I would say it's a good bet, yes, we're not going to stay up there,
we're going to stay up there and then try to work for a few months into
the new - into the extended mission, but then we're going to wind up
coming back down to the equatorial region and start getting again to
look at - do all the sorts of things including looking again at, you
know, being able to do - get the whole planet again and be able to do
storms and watch storms moving.

It's hard to equatorial type storms when you\'re looking out for the
pole. You got to be sort over the equatorial region to really look at
storms in equatorial region and get a uniform kind of view of the whole
planet and the storms over the whole planet.

So anyway, the nice thing about this mission is that we get to go at the
different vantage points and really study things in different, you know,
in unique ways that nobody has ever done before.

All right. So I'd mentioned three different ways to do remote sensing,
then we have (MC2). And (MC2), you can take - I already talked about
occultation. And occultation, you know, is one way of - because
you\'re - there are two kinds of occultation: there\'s solar occultation
where you\'re looking at sunlight coming through the atmosphere; but
also there's radio occultation where you blast out a radiowave, you
know, your telecom radiowave, you know, let it in kind of the atmosphere
and then let it effect - let the atmosphere work on those radiowaves and
then you watch what happens when they hit the Earth, and you can see the
effects of the atmosphere, you can watch the diffraction the atmosphere,
you know, the atmosphere bending the wave, and you can tell a lot about
the pressure temperature structure of the atmosphere that way, and then
if you see some absorptions, the attenuation, it could be due to
molecules in the atmosphere. So that's another technique.

We talked about gravity already, that you can do different things with
gravity and understand, you know, work on the internal structure.

All right, let's go to the next few graphs. It\'s kind of - I'm taking a
long time, kind of let me get to the next stuff.

Let's see, the next one just kind of summarizes the wavelength range. So
if you just want to see what these different - four different - or four
or five instruments I talked about, it kind of shows the different
wavelength ranges there that they all can cover, and I think I\'ve
talked about that.

The next one is just again talking about occultation, so if you want to
look into that, you can look at a few graphs later, but I want to get on
with what VIMS can do because we're running out of time.

Page 7 kind of summarizes then what we can do with VIMS, and again we go
from 0.3 or so microns up of 5.0. We have 0.5 milliradiance, I don't
know if you all know about radiance and milliradiance but, you know,
there\'s two pi radiance in the circle, so 6.2 roughly radiance in the
circle. And then 17 milliradiance in a degree, okay? Milliradiance is a
thousandth of a radiance. So 0.5 milliradiance is something, you know,
120th or so of a degree, or 130th, 134th of a degree, so a couple of
minutes of (unintelligible).

We have - so we have 0.5 milliradiance or another way to talk about is
500 micoradiance, and I believe again that the ISF people are down on 8
microradiance, so they're - something like that, 6 or 8, I think -
actually maybe 6. So they're about 80 times better resolution than we
are.

These are typical - by the way, infrared instrument in general, if you
go look at other spacecraft, Venus or whatever, even Mars, you'll find,
this is typical, there\'s 0.5 times 0.5 milliradiance, it's sort of a
typical type of a field of view, what we call IFOV, Instantaneous Field
of View, of, you know, what the pixel size is of a particular infrared
instrument, spectrometer, map spectrometer.

And because you need to have, you know, if you\'re going to collect all
these colors, you got to have (unintelligible) you\'re collecting light
so that you can split it in all these colors and have this kind of a
signal.

If instead you have a broadband like ISF has, then they're spanning, you
know, large wavelengths, large set of wavelengths of light all at once,
in one (sort of) scoop and they're filtered, and they can have then high
resolution, they\'re getting the light because they\'re spanning a large
spectral range in their (unintelligible) that they do.

In our case, we're trying to, you know, subdivide all their big filters
in a lot of little smaller filters, and that means we got to have a
bigger - collect - we need to collect more light by just having
(unintelligible) image, in a sense collecting over bigger area is what
we have to do in order to make up for that.

Okay. So - and our images can be up by a 64 x 64 square pixels. So we
can get over 4000 pixels in one of our images that way. And so when I
show you an image, almost all of them 64 x 64 squares.

By the way, this instrument is really good. It can - you can subdivide
things. You don't need to bring down all the wavelengths. For example,
if you\'re starved of data volume, you could just bring out a subset of
wavelengths. So we're very flexible in that regard. And we're also
flexible in the 64 x 64, we can go on it by a 1 x 1 or 16 x 16 or even
some weird, you know, 48 x 16 or some strange dimension if you need to
do that.

So it's actually turned out to be very, very good to this instrument to
be so versatile because they help then accommodate other instruments
when we have - kind of battle over data volume. We can accommodate them
by just, you know, editing our data in a way that most people can\'t do.

All right. So that's our - that's the end of sort of synopsis of the
instrument. I was talking about some of the results we're having.

On Page 8 here, I\'m showing you some pretty crude images of Saturn that
we did on the initial orbit, September 3rd of 2004. This was all done I
think as we were getting into our final orbit on Saturn. We had a very
long orbit that lasted a couple of months on the first orbit. And this
is just showing you the two different views done simultaneously. Now the
right image is done with the visual channel.

I mentioned - I\'ve been mentioning that VIMS has, you know, can do from
0.3 microns up to 5. The visual part of it, 0.3 to 1 micron is done with
one set of optics. It was actually built in Italy. The Italians actually
contributed this part of the instrument. They developed that - half of
the instrument in Italy, tested it, and then we made it with our side of
it which starts at 1 micron and goes to five that we built here at JPL.

So VIMS really is (unintelligible) collaboration with two different -
two different sets of optics and then the results all go into one
processor and (swell) up together after that. But in terms of the real
optics, there's the visual image.

So the image on the right is a visual image and it looks to have
different dimensions than the one in the left because it was done at
higher resolution. Actually the visual instrument does have about three
times the spatial resolution as the infrared side.

So if you want a high resolution on VIMS, you use the visual instrument
that gets you three times the resolution. And that's what I\'m showing
here.

So on the right side, you have, you know, sort of a daytime view, you
can see we're looking down at the terminator \-- at the left side is
nighttime, the right side is day time. You can see the South Pole there
with this little belly button of a dark region there at the pole, lots
of while clouds and brown clouds. So in a way it's contrasted here. It's
a different cloud showing probably ammonia clouds in the white. The red
is sort of a belt - we're not sure exactly why (unintelligible) do what
they do there, but similar to Jupiter, we have sort of belts and zones
in Jupiter.

So on this picture in the right you see a very axisymmetric type of a
view of Saturn where for any one latitude, it just circled around the
planet. And this is typical of most of the images that I\'ve been seeing
of Saturn up until now. One thing I hope you learn today, that when you
look at Saturn in a new light here, it's not so what we call
axisymmetric, it's not so that all the clouds is the same all the way
around the planet, it's actually structured in the clouds.

The picture on the left kind of indicates that \-- again this is done
far away, we said there are 4,000 kilometers per pixel \-- the planet
has a radius of 61,000 kilometers or a diameter of about 122,000
kilometers. So 4,000 kilometers is a big piece of planet. And so it's
not, you know, this not a very good resolved of picture. And you can see
the rings by the way going through the northern part of the
(unintelligible) black. That's the rings in the way.

And - but this looks like a noisy picture, but actually I\'m going to
say that every pixel here that you see is real signal, all right? And
particularly near the middle of the planet you see a bright pixels
surrounded by some black pixels. Well, that's real; there really is that
structure in the planet, and that's over on the night side, compare the
aspects of the left image to the right image, and you can actually tell
now that down at the bottom, sort of a five o'clock position, it's a lot
brighter down there, that's the sun beating down on the planet.

And so we have sort of the \-- remember the sun is over the southern 20,
you know, 23 or 24 degrees south latitude \-- and so what\'s beating
down around there, you can see the terminator on the right picture, you
can see where the night side is, you can see it diagonally crosses the
planet, and the south pole is definitely in summertime down there, and
you can see the whole south polar region.

So the sun is beating down from basically the four o'clock position on
the planet and you can see that affect on the 5 micron image on the
left. On the left, (unintelligible) said, that's a 5 micron image and
(unintelligible) thermal glow, as you can probably guess from what I
said earlier. They were looking at the thermal glow of Saturn.

But there's also a solar component that you're seeing down there at the
south and it makes that part look brighter. But at 5 microns, you can
definitely see Saturn at nighttime. And all those pixels are real
signal. And this if our first indication that we have something kind of
exciting on Saturn, if just look at 5 microns, we can even look at
nighttime to start doing some things on the planet.

So, there's thermal glow (unintelligible) like two different aspects
looking at the planet.

Next image shows you then the spectrum of one of those pixels, and just
to show the panoply of things that you can do if you\'ve got an imaging
spectrometer, you can use the spectral part of it and do the (steering)
through your image tube, like I mentioned, and you find all sorts of
these things. I put Saturn and Titan on here.

And we kind color-coded different types of molecules. We go ammonia that
creates some of the absorptions here. I mean if there was nothing in the
atmosphere absorbing, then it would be flat. It'd have a straight line
across. But the fact that you have all these different ups and downs
means, particularly the downs, the downs, you know, shows the
absorptions by molecules of the atmosphere.

And I would just give you an example, if you go over to the bottom scale
that has wavelengths of microns, if you go to 1.9 micron, you see a
brown, it says brown ammonia, NH3, that's ammonia, and you see a little
dip there. Well, that's due to ammonia absorbing - ammonia gas in the
atmosphere absorbing light. And so you can probably tell that we could
talk about ammonia, how much ammonia there is in the atmosphere by
looking at that picture and analyzing it.

Then we have other things over at 2.95 microns or so, you can see
phosphine, and that's PH3. And that's a very intriguing molecular study.
One of the things we're trying to do is look at how phosphine varies
over the planet because phosphine should not be there.

The theory before this was - before people realized about 20 or 30 years
ago that there was phosphine in the planet, most chemists would have
told you there can't be phosphine there. There can't be PH3 sitting
there in the atmosphere. Because phosphine very quickly gets
(disassociated) by the sun. And so if you have phosphine there, within a
matter of a year or so, the phosphine would be destroyed and it wouldn't
be there.

So the fact that you\'ve got it there and you see its signature here in
the spectrum says that it's being resupplied. Something is creating
phosphine or bringing it up to the top of the atmosphere where we're
plumbing, you know, what we're looking here is the top of atmosphere,
something is dragging it up in depth. Now you can prove this from just
the chemistry of it that, yes, phosphine can be created down again at a
thousandth bar level, a thousand kilometers down worth about thousand
degrees K, you know, thousand, thousand, thousand, roughly down there.

And down there, at that depth, you can create phosphine out of other
chemicals down on there. But as soon as you upwell, it should disappear.
But the fact that we see it here says that it's being upwelled, it's
being transported and it's being continually transported to the top of
the atmosphere. So this is direct evidence of transport from 1,000
kilometers down to the top of atmosphere.

So it's a way of looking 1,000 kilometers into the atmosphere, is by
looking - looking at the phosphine. And so one of things that we're
trying to is map it over the planet. Is phosphine more prevalent at
certain latitudes (unintelligible) we show where the upwelling really is
occurring more than elsewhere. And it goes back to what I talked earlier
about Saturn maybe not being homogeneous. Maybe there are places that
are hotspots that are - that dynamics and uploading happens more often
than in other places.

And so one of the things that we're trying to do with VIMS data is try
to map us out. But if you\'re going to map it out, you need to know how
phosphine behaves, you need to know, well, gee, you know, how much, you
know, what is absorption - what\'s the dip on this figure? What does it
really mean in terms of the number of molecules, the phosphine that you
have?

And that was largely unknown until about two months ago when my - I have
a post-doc here on the fellowship and we\'ve gotten laboratory data and
we\'ve now got a paper that just yesterday it was announced - it's in
publication now, it's in press, when we were able to take laboratory
data from some other people around here and actually then convert it to
the right way for us to use it on this planet.

And so now we have what's called the absorption coefficient for
phosphine, and my post-doc starting today actually is going to start
analyzing these types of spectra and try to figure out, is phosphine
more prevalent in certain latitudes than others? Then we can start
talking about dynamics and where, you know, and then the whole - how
Saturn works internally.

So it's called - by the way, this phosphine is - it belongs to a class
of molecule called "disequilibrium species." Again, disequilibrium; that
means they shouldn't be there. It means they don't - then they shouldn't
be in equilibrium on the top of the atmosphere, they get destroyed. And
there's a number of them, another is called germane and then the very
right hand part of that spectrum, you see a box, and it's got a bunch of
molecules listed in it, and one of them germane, GeH4, and that's
another one that is disequilibrium specie that shouldn't be there but
it's there. And CO is another one that's another disequilibrium specie.

So we have several that we can see in VIMS spectra of several species
that are dynamically created species, things that point - that are
traces of dynamics in the atmosphere and it's going to, you know, tell
us about what\'s going on in the deep part of Saturn.

Now we also have methane, CH4 here, and actually we can - there's a
little - around 4 microns, you see a little diagram with a bar with lots
of lines coming out of it. There\'s lots of different individual
features of methane there that we can detect at 4 microns. And so that
will help us - actually it helps us a lot with clouds.

We know how much - or in temperatures. Actually from those four, we
actually talk about the temperatures of the planet. And that's another
thesis article for some future grad student. Nobody on our mission right
now is, as I know, is analyzing this data. We have limited number of
resources on this mission so we can't do everything. But at least the
data is there, somebody in the future can go and use this to talk about
temperatures as measured by VIMS methane.

However, as I mentioned earlier, there\'s lots of other techniques on
(unintelligible) temperatures. So we probably don't need to do this, but
maybe there's some other clue in here that we don't understand.

But methane, you'll see throughout the spectrum, if you look left to
right, you'll see CH4 is everywhere. Methane is a very prevalent
absorber in the atmosphere. It's less than 1/10 of 1% of the molecules.
But methane very effectively absorbs and eats away the light. Most of
the light that's eaten away here across the spectrum you see the
methane, but we know how much methane is there. And so therefore we
don't use the spectral nature to tell us about how much methane. Instead
we use it to tell us about the cloud levels and we're going to talk
about that in a minute. We can talk - by seeing just how much of the
methane light is eaten away, you can talk about high level clouds or low
level clouds. And I mentioned earlier about those polar hazes on
Jupiter, you can immediately tell that you got high level of polar hazes
on Jupiter because it shines away, Jupiter is shining what methane
should be absorbing. And so that's why you got a really high level
cloud.

And so you can do three-dimensional (cartography) on a planet using
methane and hydrogen, another molecule we know very well, hydrogen. And
between methane and hydrogen which are both uniformly distributed, that
is, we don't expect either one to vary in its relative composition
across the planet whereas ammonia and phosphine do. We know that ammonia
and phosphine vary; they can\'t use them (unintelligible) but methane
and hydrogen are just, you know, sitting there everywhere at the same
abundances. Per, you know, per cubic meter of stuff, you can predict how
much stuff - how many molecules should be there and there\'s no question
about that, so then you can use the spectra to talk about the 3D
structure of the atmosphere in terms of the clouds and how they come and
go.

So that's basically how we use spectra. Let's go to the next image which
is Figure 10 now I guess I\'m on. And here I\'m demonstrating how we in
the past (unintelligible) Jupiter, how you can talk about the
composition of aerosol. This is a red spot of Jupiter. Now we're trying
to do this on Saturn. So far, this technique, I haven't found anything
which is actually - which is actually a result. I can't (unintelligible)
dramatic like this on Saturn yet which tells you that Saturn does not
have big ammonia particles, they don't have huge storms of gigantic
ammonia particles. I can only tell that because I don't - otherwise I
see it very easily using techniques I\'m showing here with Jupiter.

But just to give you a feel for how we do these kinds of things on the
other planets. And here I\'m showing five - actually the top four - the
top four black and white pictures here are different wavelengths of
light of Jupiter. And the red spot is in the middle of all those things.

But if you look at the top left hand corner, the 1.94 micron image, you
see the red spot right in the center, but then look to northwest at
about 10:30 or 11:00, there\'s a little feature up there, okay? And
that's the turbulent - what we call the turbulent wake of the red spot.

But now if you go to the picture below just beneath that, it says 1.99
microns, you don't see that picture. It's gone. That little picture to
the northwest, the red spot is not there anymore. That's just a 0.05
microns away, it's almost the same - almost the same exact wavelength of
light but not. It's just a slight tweak in the wavelength of light makes
that guy disappear.

But then go to the top right hand corner, it's 2.05 microns. So now
we're just 0.06 microns further on, basically, next band of (NIM) this
is done by the way from Galileo (NIM). And so you have three
wavelengths: one shows the figure, one doesn't, and then you see it
again. So it's there and it's not there and then it's there. Well,
that's absorption at 1.99. 1.99 microns that picture disappears.

And I accentuated that by doing some mathematical manipulations. On the
bottom left hand of black and white, you see that thing sticking out
like a lighthouse. And that's just doing a mathematical formula, just
choosing those images of above and just accentuating that, and you see
that you have something strange there that's a very unique thing that's
happening, and where does it - it's something that absorbs at 1.99
microns. And what the upshot of that is is it's ammonia but it has to be
\-- and I\'m not actually going to detail \-- but it has to be large
ammonia particles that are doing that.

So this technique of using different wavelengths of light to actually in
and out of ammonia bands helps you identify ammonia clouds on Jupiter.

By the way, corollary with looking at these images is the red spot
itself is black on that bottom picture. That means it is not made of
ammonia which is something that I don't think anybody really kind of
realized. But it's other stuff inside that. I mean it has some ammonia
but not big I should say, it's not made of large particles of ammonia.
It could be small particles of ammonia. It could be small particles of
ammonia or it could be, and the reason why I think it's red, it actually
got some sulfur in it. That's another article that I\'m writing. I had
to put it back while I was doing Cassini. But it's - I think there's
sulfur in there that's causing that.

But I just want to demonstrate that you can use these types of spectral
images to locate regions that have special compositional - composition
band. In this case, on the red spot we found this turbulent region to
the north of the red spot that's caused by actually different currents
of air trying to get around the red spot.

Red spot is a big sort of like a big mountain in a way and different
currents of air going left and right across that image. And they had to
get on the red spot and they crashed, and what basically happens is two
different rivers of air crashing into each other causing a mechanical
uplift, causing air to rise much higher than it would normally would,
and it's dragging up ammonia with it deep down, and that ammonia is
coming out and condensing out in the cloud. Sort of like orthographic
uplift on the Earth when you have thunderstorms like we\'ve been having
here in Pasadena last few weeks where we watch - we sit here and watch
thunderstorms because of the orthographic uplift with the mountains
around there that are forcing the air up and a humid air we\'ve been
having lately, creating a lot of thunderstorms.

So we think this actually in Jupiter a thunderstorm region - well, it's
ammonia, we're not sure if ammonia itself creates thunderstorms. But if
you imagine what\'s happening here mechanically, on Jupiter, we're
bringing up all this ammonia, well, underneath it is water, and only,
you know, 20 or 30 kilometers underneath it is water clouds. And so that
water cloud also probably coming up and so I predict there are actually
thunderstorms going on underneath this thing, water thunderstorms. And
in fact in the Galileo era, there are some other indications that in the
same neighborhood there are thunderstorms and water clouds as well, but
haven't - not really been proven, but ISF, sorry, SSI on that mission
(unintelligible) imager actually has things they think there are really
water clouds down there.

So anyway the point is that you can use these techniques to come up
with, you know, very, very strange things like this particular
dynamically uplifted cloud here that we're seeing on Jupiter.

So we're trying to do this on Saturn, so far haven't found anything, but
we're still looking.

The next figure is just another - just a colorized version of
(unintelligible) figure.

Let's go on now to Saturn, back to Saturn. And one thing we had been
doing again is this phosphine and ammonia thing. And on this next
picture I\'m showing ammonia (unintelligible). And so you can see again
two different wavelengths, 2.75 microns and 2.89. These two wave lengths
are pretty close together but a little bit different and you see the
poles really sticking out, you know, being darker in the second one
versus the first, and that's due to an ammonia - enhanced ammonia over
the pole. So that's the kinds of things we're doing. We're learning that
the pole has more ammonia.

Now in this case though, does it - is it just at the column abundance,
that is, the amount of ammonia is larger. That's definitely true. These
pictures are showing that the total integrated absorbed, you know,
amount of ammonia over the poles is larger at Saturn, but that may be
due to the fact that the clouds on Saturn are deeper and all you\'re
doing is putting the clouds deeper so that then in terms of the things
that's really exciting, that is, the ammonia humidity or the ammonia,
you know, molar fraction, how much mixing ratio is there of ammonia.
That may be the same. It may just be that we're looking deeper in the
atmosphere here and down to the lower clouds.

And so this type of data is currently under study, again, mostly by
post-doc because I\'m so busy with everything else, but that's one thing
that we're starting to study.

But certainly from these images, you can see there is a difference,
there is an enhanced ammonia over the pole, but it may just be, you
know, enhanced - enhanced ammonia (call them) abundant what\'s
happening.

But, you know, down the road as we start then folding in the other
wavelengths that we have that can tell us about cloud structures, then
we can entangle all these different effects and be able to, down the
road, be able to tell, do we have enhanced humidity on that which again
would be neat thing about mineralogy. And in fact, I showed you earlier,
that we have this little sort belly button at the pole that's different
looking, well, that may be all tied together with this ammonia.

So we're trying to, you know, you can understand that we can hopefully
down the road with all the data collected, hopefully be able to unravel
all these different effects and understand the mineralogy of Saturn.

All right, let's talk a little bit now - I\'ve already given you a hint
of what\'s going on and actually discussed what\'s going on
(unintelligible) the next one which really shows again how you can do
three-dimensional (cartography). And, you know, everybody is familiar
with pull the water that if you look into a swimming pool and you see a
red object in the swimming pool, you know that that object is near the
surface, it's not down the bottom of the pool. So you yourself can do
(cartography), of looking into a media - of liquid media or some type,
by looking in a swimming pool, you could tell if an object is near the
surface or down at the bottom by looking at the thread or not. And
that's basically, as I mentioned before, what we're doing with methane
and hydrogen on this planet. And also the relative coloring, is it red
or blue, is one way. The other way is also just looking at the total
intensity \-- is the object is going away, fading away? And the more
faded away it is, the deeper it is.

So that's the sort of the technique that we use on all these planets and
it's kind of illustrated here with the fish, looking at the beach ball.

But let's go on the next figure. And it shows here then the same idea.
How deep into the planet can you go as a function of wavelength? So here
I\'ve shown all across the whole spectrum from about 1 micron out to 2.6
microns \-- basically where - the main places that we looked for
reflected sunlight. If the sun is beaten down from high noon over, you
know, straight overhead, down into the planet, how deep can the light go
and then get bounced back by a pure reflector? How far down can that
pure mirror be, you put a mirror in the atmosphere and you kind of make
it go deeper and deeper, how far down can that mirror be till you see
that you\'re having attenuations of, well, what's called (e-fold)
(unintelligible) know about e and exponential, but e-1. So where is the
(apical depth 1)?

When we talk about (apical depth), we're talking about, you know, if
it's an (apical depth 1), then that means you get back, well, it gets a
little more confusing, but let's just say, you know, for a round trip
pass, e-1, that would be (unintelligible) half, but because you go twice
through it, it's really (unintelligible) 1. But where do you get back
e-1, you know, about, you know, let's say 0.27 or 0.28 of the light?

So this diagram shows a functional wavelength. And where do, you know,
what level of that mirror be so that you get back, you know, 20% of the
light you put in. And you can see that you have different peaks and
valleys in this diagram. And so certain places you would think is very
high part of the atmosphere, again, at 2.4 microns you see you can only
get down to 1 millibar or so, okay, 0.001 bar.

If it's a cloud deeper than that, you\'re not going to see it basically.
Basically you\'re not going to see it, it's going to, well, you know, if
you have a really good instrument, if you really, you know, if you have
long exposure, then you can see it very weakly and maybe you'd see a
reflection of 0.001 or something, a very small amount of (flux) coming
back and you\'re going to see a lot of (flux) coming back.

And so this shows you, if you use a wavelength of 2.4 microns and you
see something very bright, it's got to be very high in the atmosphere.
On the other hand you go another wavelength, let's say 1.6 microns,
that's what we call continuum wavelength, and that's a big valley down
there, and there\'s nothing in that atmosphere that's a gas that would
absorb that light. So any photon that gets in there would just keep
going down till it hits the cloud.

And so you do - that's sort of what we call the continuum wavelength.
It's basically if you look with your eyes, at Jupiter, is what you'd
see. That is in the sense that it shows the same kind of aspects of a
planet that you kind of - that you kind of see with your eyes in the
sense that - which show all the clouds. I mean you would see, you know,
if there was a cloud at one bar, yeah, you'd see that, but if there was
no cloud there and there\'s only a cloud of two bars, you'd see that as
well, because the light would just go down until it hits something.

So 1.60 is continuum wavelength, 1.6 and these other wavelengths around
that - on this diagram, sort of buried in the brown mud at the bottom of
that figure, that - those are the wavelengths you use to sort of see the
whole atmosphere, all the way down, as deep as you can in reflected
sunlight. The other wavelengths again are restricted to higher
altitudes, and by combining these different wavelengths, you can talk
about what altitude the clouds are.

And the next figure, Figure 15 shows this, kind of gives you an idea,
again, the one - I\'m showing 1.59 micron continuum in the left and
that's really the 1.6, but, you know, 1.6 microns or 1.59; and into the
right, 2.12 microns. These pictures were taken simultaneously, a lot of
the same image cube and (unintelligible) I guess in the case that the
rings themselves (unintelligible) 1.59 must be water there that's
absorbing in the rings, so you\'re going to see the rings at 1.59.

But here at 2.12 you see the ring shining away and you can see the
planet, you can see the shadow of the planet on the ring here. But the
planet itself looks a little different. We got an equatorial belt there
of white clouds but south of that much weaker and you do have another
band that's about half way to the pole and it's showing up.

So from this - from that you can say, "Well, (unintelligible) region
must have very high clouds, or sorry, very thick clouds," and also high
because 2.12 microns it's got to be at a certain altitude or else you
wouldn't see it. So it's relatively high.

And then there\'s another band that's weaker, a little bit south of
that. But there are other regions, just south, you know, of the belt
that are started. So that means that there\'s no clouds high up in that
region.

So this is just two wavelengths. We\'ve got hundreds of them that we can
use to kind of really nail down what the different altitudes are. So
that's (cartography) and that's what we can do.

But now there\'s a whole another thing and that's the thermal wavelength
of 5.1 micron. The bottom left hand figure shows you that and it's a
whole different aspect. Again, it looks very noisy but all those figures
there are real, and there\'s a real cross features but those features
don't look anything like what you\'re seeing in, let's say the 2.12
micron one that shows the control belt. You don't see that control belt
in this 5 micron image. It looks really different.

So this is just showing us something different, we'll get into that. And
I just kind of put these things together and made a composite, pretty
composite, showing stuff, glowing Saturn with a blue ring around it,
just combining the three wavelengths, that's what you get. All right.

And then next picture really shows, you know, kind of lists it. So we
have 5 microns (unintelligible) mission, this is now Page 16. It's
showing (unintelligible) mission the 5 microns the whole planet is
glowing in red and then on top of that you have green for the continuum,
so, wherever it's daylight there is some green. I mean green is being
reflected back everywhere. But then the blue kind shifts you to the top
of the atmosphere. And the blue contribution only comes back from a high
altitude cloud and so therefore you have a whitish looking equatorial
belt because it had red, green, and blue together and some sense. And
then you have yellowish green of other places depending on what the
clouds are.

All right, let's go on now - and I\'m going to - and I think we're
running out of time actually it seems right now, but we\'ve used a lot
of time. So I\'m going to skip a little bit of Jupiter. But here is just
another example of Jupiter where you see the red spots shining away in
one of these bands that are restricted to high altitude.

And by the way, on that - on Figure 17, you can see the polar haze, as I
mentioned earlier, just kind of shimmering away at the top of the
atmosphere, that you really can't see at 1.6 (unintelligible) picture at
1.6, you can't tell at all there's a polar haze, but you look at the
picture next to it that's been in one of these absorption bands, in this
case, by the way, it's hydrogen absorption, not methane, but it still
plays the same thing.

And you see this (unintelligible) popping out, and that's - and you see
the red spot sort of sticking up about everything. So that tells you
about the red spots (unintelligible) and everything else on that planet.

And then the 5 microns is again keep coming from the interior trying to
get through and of course the clouds, what happens, the clouds block the
heat. So you can see it on the right hand side picture that the 5 micron
heat can only get through in a little color around the red spot, it
actually become black, the red spot itself, the red spot is too thick of
clouds. So the 5 micron radiation can only leak through. And so what
this shows on Jupiter is where the red areas on the bottom figure is
where there\'s virtually no clouds. So 5 micron - or no clouds with big
particles the 5 micron radiation can get through it. And it might be a
small particle, but it can't be big particles. And so that bottom
picture in Jupiter case shows you (unintelligible) where there\'s no
clouds, very thin clouds, it shows where there\'s high cloud, where it's
blue. And green is like thick clouds that aren't so high. So
(unintelligible) wavelength.

Okay. So let's go on the next picture, back to Saturn again, and I think
this one shows what I was mentioning earlier that there\'s ways to do,
you know, from buying things here, and this is again, on the right hand
side, we're showing the ammonia absorption I believe, yup, and with the
purples shades to it. And now I\'ve combined some of the wavelengths
that show clouds morphologies, as clouds, you know, heights here in
these pictures. And I\'m not going to go more into detail about it
because we got to get on, but you can again imagine that by combining
all the different colors, we can start talking about what the humidity
is of ammonia across the planet and start talking about mineralogy.

Okay. In the interest of time, I think we're going to skip this next
one. (Unintelligible) spectra here, again, just kind of going in detail
some of the features on Saturn that we're seeing. And I think we'll skip
the first one on Page 19. I think, we'll just skip that. I\'ve already
described what kinds of things we're trying to do, so I\'m going to go
on.

So I when I was talk - I do want to get this 5 micron (unintelligible)
mission which is sort of the discovery of Cassini with VIMS on Saturn. I
mean it's a neat thing that you can do.

And let's see, so what I\'ve done here is, again, showing you a very
crude image that we first got, and I\'ve just taken it twice across the
latitude, right where that bright spot is in the middle of the
picture...

Woman: (Kevin), what page are you on?

Kevin Baines: Page 20.

Woman: Okay. Thanks.

Kevin Baines: Okay. Good, Page 20.

And\...

Woman: Hello?

Man: Hello.

Woman: (Kevin), did you mute yourself?

Kevin Baines: Yeah. I\'m back. Am I still on the air? Because I just
heard one (unintelligible) and I just - am I still here?

Woman: Yeah. We can hear you now.

Kevin Baines: Great. Fantastic.

All right. So we got on this page, Figure 20, you know, again when we
first saw this, we were surprised by all the structure here and there's
a scan across - I mean I\'m showing you a picture on the left and I show
you a scan across one of the latitude in the right, and you can see
little bumps on that scan, and the question is, what is causing, you
know, those bumps?

And one thing to do it is temperatures. And in fact let's just go to the
next - Figure, 21. There\'s - I think this is the one that shows the
scan right through that bright pixel that was in the first - the
previous picture.

And you see all that structure in that scan. I mean it's - that's going
up and down. I mean you go one - one point on the planet, there's a lot
less light coming back at another point. And 5 microns, some people
might naively think, well, there are temperature variations. I mean the
planet is putting out heat, maybe a part of the planet is hotter than
another part of the planet. But to get a factor of 2 variation in the
(flux) leaving the planet like you\'re seeing there between a big peak
there and a valley next door, on either side of it, to get that factor
of 2, I wrote down - you could see down below, I\'ve written that, you
know, you need to get a 50 degree Kelvin temperature variation and
something that, you know, has an average temperature of around \-- at
this level, of about, you know, maybe 170 or so.

So that's just untenable. You cannot have a 50K variation without then
creating lot of dynamics. I mentioned earlier that whenever you have a
temperature variation in the planet, the planet tries to equilibrate,
and that what causes the weather, I mean basically the circulations are
caused by temperatures trying to equilibrate and, you know, on the Earth
if you have like less than a degree of temperature variation from place
to place, I mean you can see that, you know, you can definitely get
motions in the atmosphere due to do that.

So (unintelligible) variations from point to point like here, I mean
that just wouldn't work, you'd have huge storms and incredible chaos in
that planet that we don't have.

So the much more viable explanation is all it is is the fact that the
planet is putting out heat at this wavelength, and the heat that gets
generated is starting in around 8 or 9 bars, deep down the atmosphere is
where the source of the heat is. And that heat is coming out like a
flashlight, trying to get out of the planet. And if you have clouds
above it, then those clouds will attenuate the light and you see the
clouds in silhouette, basically looking into clouds in silhouette
against this below, down below. And that's the explanation of what we're
seeing.

And - but as you can see, these features don't look anything like what
you see in reflected sunlight. And let's go on the next picture, I think
maybe coming up is a better slide of all this.

Well, the next picture then shows what we did with that image. I mean,
we said, "Wait a minute, let's keep looking." So we looked for five days
over the next - and we saw the same features showing up again and again
and again. And in fact, this is what we've used to measure winds at a
certain level, is to look at these features, what we think now are cloud
features that we saw everyday, you know, like clockwork, every time the
planet rotated around, there are these features, okay?

So the best year we had in year 2004. But by 2005 or late, yeah, in
2005, we had a different view. And that's the next picture. The next
picture by the way just shows you daytime view, okay? And we finally,
got up close and personal with Saturn. And looking down at the equator,
and you can see the rings there as atmospheric scientists like to see
the rings, with them out of the way, you\'re looking down at nice badge
of the rings, and so that's really out of the way, although again,
they're pesky and they cover up the pole there with the shadow. So, you
go wow with the fact that we can't do anything (unintelligible)
atmosphere because of that pesky shadow.

But the next picture then reveals Saturn as it really is, it's 5 micron.
This picture was taken exactly at the same time, same image cubes as the
right picture. In fact, you can convince yourself of that because look
at those scenes between the different parts of the mosaic, it's exactly
the same scenes there. So we're just - the right-hand side shows you
three colors done, the visible reflected sunlight. And left-hand side
shows you the glow of the planet, 5 microns, done exactly the same time,
okay? And a lot of features in the left-hand side that you don't see in
the right-hand side.

And so finally, we're seeing, at least with VIMS, I mean I know ISS with
its better acuity has seen the dragon storm and a few other things over
the years. With VIMS up until now, we have not seen anything in visual
light that we would call something interesting to look at that you can
measure wind speed with, we've been staked out by that, that we haven't
seen anything at this - the size that we need to see it at to be able to
track it on the day side, it's like a sunlight.

But here on the night side, you see a whole menagerie of features here
that can be followed for days and days. And that's what we've done,
we've actually been measuring the winds here using those features that
you see in the left-hand side. And I believe the next figure - well,
we'll just talk about these features are.

So a lot of features in, I'm going, you know, there's such a menagerie
of things here that we just got in service and trying to understand what
we're seeing. But what we're convinced is that those figures that you
see and I'm equating you see a whole bunch of - I mean, that's the most
active area of let's say localized discrete features right around the
equator.

By the way, in this view again, it's the glow of Saturn coming through.
And so the clouds are black. The clouds are the gray things, bright
areas in this figure. Again, this is figure - this is Page 24 where I'm
comparing the two different, day time view, the reflected sunlight view
and the thermal view. On the thermal view, because the clouds attenuate
the light, you are now seeing the clouds a sort of this dark blocky
object that basically, just attenuate the light.

And what I'll tend to do and I think the next figures - later on the
talk, we're going to reverse the color contrast. It's going to be clouds
are white because that's what normally people used to seeing as white
cloud. So, we will do that.

But for now, on this picture here, the clouds are black. And you see
that around the equatorial region, why would this very high altitude
thick cloud is that we talked about before around the equatorial region?
That's where embedded in there are these sort of blocky clouds that,
well, I believe are convective cells. I think what's really happening
here is that we're having updraft here going on and this delivering aero
cells that then get - go to the top of the atmosphere basically was in I
get share apart and you get these sort of an in the stratosphere
setting, you get these axisymmetric (unintelligible). But once the
particle gets created, I mean it basically just goes around.

So, you have this sort of like a chimney effect of stuff coming out of a
chimney but then it just accumulates around the equator and you get this
axisymmetric horizontal type feature.

But really - the gender of it could be these blocky clouds are to me at
least, they're very much like invective clouds coming up. And we're
still studying them. We haven't really had a chance on this mission to
sit and stare at this clouds.

Again, then, you know, very really do we get up close to the planet, be
able do these kinds of things but this is one of the main things but
this is one of the main things that we're going to try to do in the
extended mission. We really - now, we know we had this technique. We've
decided that this is one of the main things that the (amateur) of
scientist will going to be doing is really trying to study these things
and watch the development of these clouds.

Okay. And by the way, the rest of the planet, being at the blocky clouds
around the equator but the rest of the planet seems to have more
striations, more zones and belts where you have often in, you know,
bright and dark areas.

On most planets, you recall those zones and belts. I'm beginning to
think on this planet, we got so many - we got - that are name for them.
And so I've been calling them in my talks (names), we have different
(names) of material here that are happening. But a lot of these things
are going on all over the planet.

So let's go on to the next figure.

So there I show you again the thermal view sort of light coming out. But
then, if you click one more time, you'll see this is the inverted view
where now, when you see white, it's cloud. And I think for most of us to
talk, I basically, make clouds with white to be consistent with how
we're using, you know, look at clouds when reflect with sunlight.

So, once again, you can see all these blocky clouds now and they
(unintelligible) region over. And actually those, if you look around,
you'll see waves and other things but we're going to talk about
individual (unintelligible) in a second.

So Figure 27 just had a blowup of that and now, we go on to Figure 28.
And I'd circle the little area there which is all to feel the view of
this physical image but that's the polar area. And over that, what
happen then as over the next view, we've been - every time chance, we
get close to the planet. We tried to get a chance to look at different
regions of the planet.

So let me give you a little tour here. It's going to be a tour of the
deep (amateur) of the planet. And I got to mention that we now believe
after having this analysis that these clouds, again, are two bars.
They're not in 2 to 2 tune F bars, somewhere in that area, 2 in F bars.
They're not up at one bar where the ammonia haze that you typically see
in the ISS pictures or the ammonia clouds in the ISS pictures.

\`This is a whole different set of clouds. These clouds are probably
ammonia hydrosulfide and maybe water cloud that are deep down in the
atmosphere, about twice the depth and pressure as all the other clouds
you pretty much ever seen on Saturn. So now I'm going to show you then
the - what we've seen at the polar region.

We've got a chance to go into their - here we see these sort of
donut-like clouds that are, you know, a little clear area surrounded by
a donut. And here in (unintelligible), you got two of them sitting there
at the Northern latitude. This is one of the things that we're going to
be looking for in the polar orbits that are coming up. We're going to be
looking down at the pole.

Unfortunately, (Al), we had a chance to do this once and couldn't wait
for the planet to rotate to - with this perspective that we had to see
if there's more, if this is a regular pattern around the pole,
(unintelligible) around. We still don't know that but this is - so one
of the (animals), the new menagerie of Saturn is this donut, these
donut-like features.

Okay. Next (animal). Let's see.

If you go over further South, per circle bare now on this sort of global
image. Another opportunity we had a few over (unintelligible) later to
look at that (unintelligible) a lot of good region. And now you've got
sort of the opposite. Now, you've got a donut surrounded by a clear -
actually, I'm not sure, I have to stack up. No, I believe - we can get
confused.

You know, this is cloudy view so you have - it's a little hurricane-like
thing. But it's sort of an inverted hurricane in this case, I believe. I
got to go double-check it but I think this inverted hurricane where the
middle is, is cloudy and then, you have clearings around it.

I see both of the types of things, you see things require a middle and
in clear colors around this over the red spot was on Jupiter. We have a
cloudy center and the (unintelligible) like a clear color on it. And
then, you've got the opposite where you have, you know, this donut-like
thing that we just talked about.

Here I'm showing that this little (unintelligible) with circular
features, the sort of colorless - sort of localized discrete features
seem, make sense that when you - what you realized that if you go and
plot down below the wind speed. And on the chart down below, I'm quite a
slide and wind of the function latitude scales on the West. And you see
that that the wind points are vertical.

This is by the way from Voyager, this is actually different level from
the amateur. This is a little bit higher up but the best we can do at
this point. Except my little red diamonds on there or what I've
measured.

But the point is that that figure down below, the little curve kind of
levels up that is sort of vertical where (unintelligible) there of. That
means the wind is not changing, you know, it's little speed down below.
So we're - what this shows is that where previous missions have shown
that (unintelligible) will take a latitude. That it's not much sheer in
the amateur that is, the winds are pretty much uniformly moving.

It's those places now that we tend to get these discrete features and it
makes sense in a river of air that not much sheer across it, you can -
things can call us. And then, they stay together basically and that's
what's happening here. And this is a theme that we've now have found
that wherever we have uniform winds and we seem to be able to get
discrete features. Wherever the winds aren't uniform, we skip it, we get
shared out features and we get even so wavy-like features showing up.

So let's continue on. The next - so now, this will straighten me out
which is which actually, I'm still confused on this guy. Whether - okay
the left side is thermal view and the right-hand side again is the
vertically - sounds right. The right-hand side is showing a, you know,
these feature strange, the strange features that I first talked is a
core of clouds surrounded by a ring.

All right. Let's go on to the next feature.

Now, we're marching South now, doing it more just tour. And now we're
going to see what's happening basically just North of the equator. And
again, you see sheer-like feature there, you feel these clouds that have
come up and then, sheered apart. And that's what we would expect it from
the winds that were measured just slightly above.

So what is sort of indicating by the way up until I show you something
in a minute is that the kinds of winds that Voyager saw for a higher
level cloud seem to have the same character, the functional of latitude,
the same kind of nature for these deeper cloud. So, it basically says
that maybe in a three-dimensional sense that the winds are pretty
uniform in three dimensions. That is, you know, as you go across
latitudes and longitudes, the winds and the function of latitudes don't
change very much as well. So, it's sort like a blocky here, it kind of
acts uniformly.

So we haven't seen much vertical view here from one level to another.
But that is changing when it go the equator itself. We do see sheers
there, I'll show that later actually. So, the one thing that we have
seen with them in terms of wind, the one that surprises is that the
equatorial regions seems to have different winds then, been seeing with
the reflected sunlight. So, therefore, we think we've got a distinct
sheer at the equator that we don't have elsewhere just think vertical
view, the winds have changed very dramatically with altitude of the
equator. Almost everywhere else, it seems to be we're getting the same
kinds of wind speed that at one altitude, there would be - stay at other
altitude.

All right. Next figure, I'm now on Table - Figure 36. We're going to see
some - still the hot winds from a highest revolution images we've seen
throughout the tour.

And this one is thermal opacity, again, where the clouds there are
thick. And here again, at the top of the figure, -70 degree latitude,
you see some little tiny features sort of almost a wave and you can
almost imagine that this (unintelligible) station of a huge planetary
wave up and down on these waves going across - going around the whole
planet.

And but most of planet, you pick up has got some waves, too. I mean, we
don't know we, again, you're seeing this almost - there's only a few
people in the world that see these pictures, so you guys are seeing that
and we still try to understand these things.

But (unintelligible) on Figure 38, I'm now showing again the reflected
sunlight done the same that time as the thermal down below. And really,
you know, it's hard to believe that the picture of above will going to
give me the picture down below. And that at equatorial region, that's
still bright in the very top part of the top part of this figure, on top
of Figure 38. We have this slide, reflected region very - you don't see
much like that at all in the thermal down below.

And so, this is very intriguing what's going on here. And again, I
believe that was happening is that there are some major storms that are
delivering stuff to the upper atmosphere near the equator that then
distribute himself around the planet. So, this is again, Saturn in 3D,
the people haven't seen before.

Next figure, let's see. (Unintelligible) skip over this drag view we get
on, we get another time here.

So I'm going to keep going, a couple of more figures. In fact, you know,
you guys can just look at this, you know, leisure and just feel these
great features that we're seeing so far. I'm going to skip over a lot if
they are - a few more things to cover for the end of time. I see that
we're getting down there.

Let me skip down to Figure 43, okay. You'll see there a little square
box. And one of the most recent things we did was go take an image is
actually, go look at this area that's in the square box in Figure 44
then show what we see. And you can see here that I believe this the
thermal image now. You can see we see features in there, little donuts
and things.

But then finally, on Figure 45 and then going to Figure 46, so I -
Figure 46, this is the spot of sunlight. So finally in reflected
sunlight was then, we finally been able to see a feature and (plug) the
sunlight that correlates with what we've seen in the thermal. And so on
the left, we actually do have the thermal that it's not the inverted,
this is the positive origin where you're looking at black would be
clouds, (civil) weighted. I guess, the thermal coming up below.

And in the right figure, this little white spot there which correlates
just to the left of center and a little bit below the center that
correlates with the black area on the left. So, this tells you, you have
a three-dimensional cloud that's where it (seek), that it's affected
down below. It's probably extends as 5 microns size particles, they're
big particles that are down, that are probably deep in the amateur. But
then it also rises up so high that we can see it in front of sunlight
here.

And that, excuse me, there's a second feature also the right, a little
bit lower which is also shown up here. And in fact in that feature, you
(unintelligible) it's right near the terminator but you can see that
there's a white in the left-hand figure, you see a white color going
around it. And in the right-hand figure that same feature has a black
color going around it which is considered, that is a (unintelligible)
feature we've got like a clearing (unintelligible), you know, thermal
energy coming through. It's white on the right-hand feature while the
clearing so you don't have the reflected sunlight, (unintelligible)
light, it's not - there's nothing to reflect again. So, it's black so it
makes sense.

And so this is sort of, you know, how lee or time that we finally, we
have some features that we can study over across a whole spectral
wavelength then and really start to understand the three-dimensional
structure of Saturn. We finally located something that we can study and
really start to understand the three-dimensional structure all the way
down, you know, from high in the amateur all the way down to several
bars all in one (folks) who have been - we actually, we looked at this
feature several times during the rotation. So, it's going to be a good
date to set that we have.

All right. So, next feature then kind of shows you a synopsis of the
crème de la crème of what we've been able to do with them in the first -
in the year. Let's say, it goes through now probably, the end of 2005.
We actually get more images this year that extend on this but it's sort
of like our almanac of best images.

And finally, I'll talk about winds a little bit. I've already talked
about the winds. On the next figure shows the status of, well, I think
as of to February of our winds that we've been - it will measure for
this deep-seated features. And if we go to the next - I guess, Voyager -
now what this gets confusing on - maybe I should skip some of these.
This goes again, this is comparing our views of the deep amateur versus
what was known in the literature basically up before it got there with
Cassini. And that is the Voyager, how winds measured by Voyager back in
1994, just seeing how they compare.

The next figure then adds on all the data we've gotten up through April
that I presented on a meeting a month ago. And showed that we had some
great data to be able actually fill out this figure a little more
purple. And what I'm not showing here is the fact that, I mean, this
looks pretty good. It looks like we're actually falling in top of
Voyager.

But the thing we remember is and I think I showed in the next figure,
let's go to Figure 50 is that Cassini itself is now seeing different
winds than was measured by Voyager so in the equatorial region. Talking
about that high levels, that high stream of air which is up around 400
to 500 meters a second. It's very fast moving air around the equatorial
region, just about 5 degrees North.

The winds have been shifting there for both the visual people, we look
at reflected sunlight. And for me, that is everybody is seeing different
winds than we expected to see. And as the puzzle we're still trying to
unravel what really is going on there. But since I've shown you those
convective storms that are coming up, you can imagine that perhaps there
is some dynamics that goes on and perhaps there is some neat things that
happen in the equator don't happen elsewhere, these are the large storms
that come up and delivering energy and things and momentum to the upper
atmosphere. So, the jury is still out on this. I'm giving you a lot of
speculation that, you know, we're sort of just (painfully) thinking
about now.

But on figure - Page 51, that's the important one there. That is showing
then, it's sort of a composite of everything, that's showing again the
background black points there of Voyager. But now, the colorful ones,
the purple points on this figure are due to both Hubble Space Telescope
and the ISF, purple and then, there's some blues and browns.

The blues and browns and purples are reflected sunlight, all of
(unintelligible) reflected sunlight, either from Hubble or from Cassini.
And you can see those winds are a lot less than what Voyager had to had.
And then, the red points are my points. And if you look at the points
right around 3 degrees, 2 to 3 degrees North latitude, you see my
purple, my red diamond are greater than the brown points and the blue
points that ISF has done.

So, that's direct comparison, sort of contemporary comparison done
within a month of each other of winds done by Cassini at two different
level. And that's the basis for what I'm saying that we (unintelligible)
to have a sheer there that's pretty substantial where I'm looking deeper
and I see higher winds than currently being seen by ISF.

Now, the winds that I see are what we thought, you know, Voyager's
thought of seeing. So, it's a puzzle what's going on here. So, but
again, these revelation of these storms that is coming up below, I think
is that - it's going to add a lot of (meat) to the puzzle and let's
figure out what's going on here.

On the Page 52, I've blown this thing up a little bit more so you can
see a little better. But again, the winds are - I've shifted, I mean, I
think it's pretty apparent that the winds are different now on at least
sort of visible people that they are different than what does it seem
the past.

Again, if I could find some storms with, you know, big enough for them,
we could also measure winds in the visual as well. But again, our visual
acuity isn't so great and we haven't done anything that we can really
follow except for the one I showed you a minute ago. We finally do have
something we can follow. So, but maybe we'll start seeing something on
the equatorial region as well that we used as following.

And on Figure 52, I kind of indicate what the sheers. And the sheers
that we're measuring there is a kind of air thing. It's close to what
Galileo saw for the same sort of latitude on Jupiter. So and you know,
I'm just pointing out, could just be coincidence but it's kind of
interesting that we're both getting better things kind of one sheer -
about two meters per second per kilometer of altitude, the winds
changed. And it was measured by the probe in (unintelligible) that went
into Jupiter and we measure it now with both hunting techniques doing
this on Saturn. I don't think it really means much really but it's sort
of interesting.

All right. So that's basically, end of the talk. I don't know how much
time we have left but it kind of - I think we're kind of running out of
time. So, I'll stop there. If there's any questions where I can handle
it now?

Is anybody still here?

Trina Ray: I know we're here.

Kevin Baines: Okay.

((Crosstalk))

Kevin Baines: Okay, okay. Good.

Okay. Trina, is that basically what you wanted? And I can go back and
fill (unintelligible).

Trina Ray: No, no. That was really good. I thought - did I hear a
question. (Ernie)?

(Ernie): Can you tell us a little about what you're going to be doing
now in the next few months?

Kevin Baines: Yeah. Okay, so and you're a taste of all of this in types
of daily (unintelligible). And personally, I'm trying to juggle all
these things and try to figure out what the right (unintelligible)
exported in papers have started and I can't figure out, you know, how to
handle all this.

Yeah. We're - in terms of the paper is yes, we're looking - I got to get
the paper on the winds of Saturn and we're going to get that paper out,
I got lots of people because that spans all the different instruments,
everybody wants and they compare the data sets here. So, we're doing
that on Saturn, the winds.

We're doing the far stream study trying to see what the - how far stream
(unintelligible) over the planet. We're doing - I want to make...

Man: (Unintelligible) one thing I wanted to ask you that what's the
level - what do you mean (unintelligible)?

Man: It mean the...

Man: Like the percentage composition.

Man: Oh we're - we're talking about like 0.1%.

Kevin Baines: We're talking about, you know, few points to a million,
you know, a hundred points to a million, something like that in which
lay down there.

So, in the various, I mean, it does - we have seen these indications in
the past, we've gone (unintelligible) observing that, there is variation
about the factor or two across the planet. But obviously, it should be a
lot more detail on that and we can, you know, we'd be able to really -
and then, the other thing (unintelligible) treat about is that we're
sitting there for years. So, if there was little bubble or (fuzzing)
that came up, you know, in one latitude, if we have in there a snap
picture and get, you know, and get it, we could probably see that.

So, just (unintelligible) of things, these events is something that, you
know, is in the back of our minds is we're trying to like to do there
are thing that we - in the background is lightning. I didn't mentioned
that at all but we are doing observing when we have a chance, we just
sit and stare hoping to get lightning. And if lightning were a flash, we
happen to get in our field of view, you can imagine the spectrum that we
get that we can tell a lot. But at shooting in the dark, you know, I
call it, you know, it's just a fishing expedition, shooting in the dark
and literally, a hope of lightning that happen. And that's what it's
intriguing that we now seem to have a certain preferred latitude, you
know, so a latitude that might have more storm systems than elsewhere
and we're going to start probably concentrating on those
(unintelligible) latitudes and try to, you know, (unintelligible) be
south and (unintelligible) that we're going to try to go and spend more
time on that.

I've actually reprogrammed a lot of our lightning observations to go
back and do more of this thermal imagery because there I know I'm going
to get something. And you can see all the different types of things
we're seeing exploring this whole new regime in the amateur. So, it's a
lot more - there's a lot more fruits more readily so I've actually, you
know, changed around more than half the lightning (unintelligible) to do
this. But eventually, we got to get back and some (unintelligible)
lightning because - but again, I'm waiting to see if we can really nail
what latitudes really have it and then, we have a better chance of
catching it.

Now, the polar views that we're going to get is going to be spectacular.
You know, we're going to be up at the pole and looking down at these
bends and these waves and these little garnet-like features from the
pole and watching them evolve and that's going to be fantastic getting
the polar view.

Again, the nice thing about, you know, 5 microns is we can look at day
and night, you know, there's no difference between day and night at 5
microns. So, it's actually preferred night because the daytime does have
a little bit of contamination from sunlight coming in, roughly a third
of a light that you get what actually, up about half of what you get
when you're looking at this with the sun's heating down on the southern,
you know, latitudes with the sun just we ever had.

But half - on daytime, but half (unintelligible) it's in the sun and
it's been reflecting off some high altitude clouds. And if I'm trying to
look at this clouds that are deeper down, I don't want that
contamination. So, it turns to be, you know, that night time is actually
preferred for what I want to do with this looking at the (seat) level of
the ammonia hydrosulfide clouds down deep which are the stormy parts. I
mean, what does this show in is the, you know, that Saturn is as dynamic
as Jupiter.

I mean, people used to think Saturn was bland. I mean, if you look at
those normal pictures then, it looks pretty bland. But what this reveals
is Saturn is as dynamic as Jupiter. In fact, some (unintelligible)
lecture, I showed a picture of Saturn at 5 microns and a picture of
Jupiter at 5 microns and they looked like the same kind of degree of
activities, they kind of - alikeness to the planet. This is that on
Saturn, the ammonias, you know, kind of come up and sitting around and
kind of a steering the stuff down below. And once you deliver the
ammonia to the upper atmosphere, it kind of, you know, sits there and it
kind of obscure your view.

And so, that's what happened on Saturn. But this kind of shows that
Saturn and Jupiter are basically, are really twins in the sense of inner
activities. And which is what you're predicting given that Saturn seems
to have more heat, internal heat. I mean, then Jupiter in the sense that
in fractionally, so that you would expect that upwelling from below
would be this exciting, more exciting in Saturn and Jupiter. But nobody
ever really seen it before until these pictures came down.

Man: Any fuzz seems at Titan?

Kevin Baines: No, Titan doesn't have - to create fuzz you need hot
temperatures and Titan is really cold. So, you know, Titan doesn't have
any these kind of stuff.

Titan is what - is the only place when you do a talking type but I'm
sure you guys are done but these charms, as my first charm have been to.
But, yeah, Titan is really setting but it doesn't have this
(unintelligible) now does that at CO. And there's a paper I've got out
now on carbon monoxide on Titan but the whole different type of
chemistry and it's not (unintelligible) assess, it's a different story.

On Titan, actually feels a picture around for a long time and actually,
it's a tracer of the (unintelligible) amount of volcanic activity on
Titan. And I just wrote a paper and it's press on that which shows the
inventory at CO on Titan has gotten some bends ovulations. And so, you
know, I'm in split between two (plan) activity, Titan and Saturn. And
so, for me to them gotten (unintelligible) on Saturn is because I've
been diverted by Titan recently.

But anyway CO is on Titan and it's a - but it's really a desert
(unintelligible) species on Titan. Instead, it's actually sort of a
tracer, it's almost placed the role of a noble gas, not quite but a
tracer role the noble gas. But once you put it into the atmosphere, it
stays there and it's actually a little more complicated than that. But
just the bottom line, it stays there.

So if you can tell me what feels in the atmosphere, you can then tell
how much, you know, carbon basely came out of the graph. That thinking
is being played with methane, I mean, you know, we think the
(unintelligible) made there because the (unintelligible) in the amateur
of Titan and that should go a way over tens of millions of years. And
it's like that if you have it there, says that Titan is volcanically
active.

So both methane and CO on Titan tell you about the geology, tell you
about the geologic activity on Titan and that traces of what's going on
in the deep, you know, near the service of Titan but also down below and
all of the geological process they go onto to release gases, some of the
deep interior of Titan.

So, it's exciting so this is a common theme I have to say, you know, I'm
also in the Venus Mission. Venus Express which is in orbit about Venus
and the same types of games are played there. And kind of a common theme
between Titan and Venus is the impact, you know, the fact that you
understand the atmosphere, then that tells you a lot of the clues and
geology. And you tell about what's going on, how active a planet is by
what, by looking at the stuff left, you know, that emits in the
atmosphere and that floats around the atmosphere in a state that's
around, you can talk about the geology of the plant.

So, it's exciting that amateur scientists can actually, you know, tell
about, you know, talk about geology and it's kind of fun actually.

Man: Thank you.

Kevin Baines: Okay, good.

Trina Ray: Are there any other questions?

Okay. With that, I'd like to thank (Kevin) for joining us today.
(Kevin), it's really enjoyed the talk, learned a lot about Saturn.

And for our next (term) telecon, it will be Tuesday, August 29 and the
topic is still to be determined, we are rattling the cages of some of
the scientists here and on the project to see what interesting topic
falls out.

For those of you who don't regularly check our Web site, today is a
great day to go off and check the radar instrument on Cassini over the
weekend, discovered likes on Titan.

Man: It did.

Trina Ray: And that is very...

Man: Is that on the Web site?

Trina Ray: I'm sorry, what?

Man: Is that on the Web site?

Trina Ray: Yes, they released - they did a image release yesterday.
First is soon as they possibly could.

Man: This - okay, this was related to the - I was just reading the
(unintelligible) release, like - at the April, the April
(unintelligible)...

Trina Ray: No, it was over the weekend.

Man: Oh, this - right. There was one that just happened, right.

Trina Ray: That just happened, it was T16.

Man: Okay, this went over the Northern Hemisphere...

Trina Ray: And so if you haven't seen the images of the other, the leg
some Titan, just go to saturn.jpl.nasa.gov.

Man: Okay, excellent.

Trina Ray: So, with that, we'd like to thank you again, Kevin and
everybody...

Kevin Baines: You're welcome. It's great.

Trina Ray: ... back in here in August.

Man: Thanks.

END