Consumer complaint received 2023-05-17
Company: Paypal Holdings, Inc
State: CA
Product: Money transfer, virtual currency, or money service
Sub-product: Mobile or digital wallet
Issue: Managing, opening, or closing your mobile wallet account

Complaint:
On XXXX I purchased a book from a vendor for {$1300.00}. It is a birthday gift for my nephew whose birthday is XXXX. The vendor was delayed in getting the book complete. On XX/XX/XXXX they said it was 75 % complete, so I waited. XX/XX/XXXX I emailed a request for an update on the book. After not hearing back for 8 days, I contacted XXXX to dispute the charge. They did and credited my account for the purchase amount. The vendor got right back to me, then and promised the book was almost done. By XX/XX/XXXX, I was convinced that the merchant was actually legitimate and are intending to send the book, so I canceled the dispute with XXXX XXXX emailed me a letter stating that the dispute is closed and said PayPal may take up to 24 hours to release the money to the merchant. 

XXXX communication from XXXX : XXXX Card XXXX Wed, XX/XX/XXXX, XXXX to me Discover Access My Account Account number ending in XXXX Dear XXXX XXXX XXXX At your request, we've closed our investigation of the transaction noted below on your XXXX card account. If a temporary credit was issued to your account during the investigation, please note it will be reversed. 

Case XXXX Merchant Name : PAYPAL XXXX Dispute Amount : {$1300.00} If you have any questions, you can call our 100 % U.S-based service team any time at XXXX ( XXXX ). As always, thank you for choosing XXXX. 


Sincerely, XXXX XXXX Customer Service It's been almost 2 months and PayPal will not release the money to the merchant. I've wasted at least a dozen hours on the phone with PayPal and XXXX trying to get them to work together. On 3 separate occasions I've gotten PP and XXXX  into a conference call to try to resolve this issue. In a nutshell says they need confirmation from XXXX 's Chargeback team that the case is closed. XXXX 's stance is they closed it XXXX and sent me confirmation about that fact. PayPal says they can't accept the letter from me ( I DID email it to PP ), they need to get it directly from the " financial institution '', and XXXX says they can't send anything PP but only to me, the cardholder. 

XXXX communication, XXXX is the merchant : XXXX XXXX, PayPal and XXXX do not seem to be working well together. XXXX recommended I forward this email message to you that shows that XXXX closed the dispute last Monday. 

PayPal is telling me that XXXX hasn't released the funds to PP, but XXXX says they have. 

Here 's my chat with XXXX today ; they say PP may work with you, whereas they wont work with me as I am not the merchant : XXXX : I d '' efinitely understand the concern with Paypal not receiving funds back on their end. We have closed the case as of XX/XX/XXXX and have sent the funds back to the merchant. The reason that the merchant can see a delay is that we have to send the funds through a " middle man '' called merchant services. They process these closures and send them to the merchants for us. I would recommend providing the merchant with a copy of the letter we sent you showing the case is closed. Another option would be for the merchant to contact merchant services as they will only speak with the merchant in this situation. Is there anything else I can go over with you today? '' I actually contacted PP first and they are saying although they have now received electronic confirmation of the dispute being closed ( I emailed it to them ), now they are saying XXXX hasn't released the funds back to them. 

XXXX communication from the merchant trying to get help from PayPal : PayPal 's case id is XXXX and has a status of " Under Review ''. 

I don't really see what has to be reviewed. I disputed the charge and then canceled the dispute. I'm asking them to release the funds and PP says the case is " under review '' and being investigated. 

excerpt from XXXX communication : Hi XXXX How are you? 
I'm surprised things haven't moved forward because I had a pretty good conversation with PP and XXXX last Wednesday. I called PP to inquire where they were in " their investigation ''. The PP person said XXXX has not communicated with PP that the case was closed ... PP says XXXX says it's " pending ''. I told the PP person XXXX tells me they closed the case weeks ago and sent mean email to that effect ( which I had forwarded to PP ). 


I asked the PP person to stay on the phone while I dial XXXX in. The XXXX person asked if I had received a paper letter from them saying the case was closed. I said no, only an email. They said they would send it again ( I haven't received any letters from XXXX ). XXXX said I could send that to PP. PP said they can't accept proof from me, it has to be from XXXX. XXXX  said they can't communicate directly with PP, only the cardholder. I just stayed silent as it is obvious that together they have created a system that is not functional. At that point the Customer Service person for XXXX  said that XXXX XXXX  could talk to PP and they transferred us to XXXX XXXX but it seemed they actually just transferred us to the basic XXXX number so we basically started at zero. This conversation took more than an hour. PP and I finally got through to XXXX XXXX, and there XXXX ( XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXX ) gave the PP person the correct email address and names of 2 people to contact to request proof of cancellation of the dispute. PP said she would and XXXX said they would email PP proof that the dispute is closed. 

I asked who has my money. I have been charged the entire amount. Does XXXX  have it, does PP have it ... they didn't really answer, but I think it's clear that PP is holding on to it and will release it when they have proof from XXXX  that the dispute is closed. I asked how fast it would be. PP said it would be within 24 hours... 

this is all I know at this point. so frustrating for all of us, I'm sure. 
Best, XXXX btw, I asked PP what happens if this doesn't get resolved... they said the money will go to the merchant. I said that is what I want! why don't we skip the " process '' and fast forward to the $ $ going to the merchant. PP said she couldn't do that. 

XXXX ( I reached out to XXXX again to get a status update ) XXXX XXXX, Oops! I got that transposed : can you please give me an update on when XXXX will send PayPal the notification that the dispute is closed so PayPal will release the funds to the merchant? The merchant has the item I purchased and is patiently awaiting payment for it... please let me know if there is anything I can do to expedite the process. 

I just got off the phone with PP ; they are saying the case is still showing as " pending '' from XXXX, rather than closed. XXXX XXXX emailed me confirmation that the case is closed, but PP will not accept anything from me : PP says it has to come directly from XXXX. 
Thank you, XXXX Here 's months of messages between me and PayPal trying to get this simple situation resolved : note that they're now saying 75 or 80 days (! ), not 75 days... 

Hi, I'm the PayPal Assistant. How can I help? Choose one of these options or add your question below. 
logo-paypal I'm still learning, so if I can't help you, you can leave a message for a customer support agent. 
XXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant Dispute XXXX XXXX logo-paypal What would you like to do? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX- PayPal Assistant Check dispute status XXXX XXXX I see that you filed a case on XX/XX/XXXX. 
You filed it because you reported a suspicious transaction. 
logo-paypal Is this the one I can help you with? 
XXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant Yes XXXXXXXX XXXX We are working with your financial institution to resolve this case. Please contact them directly if you want to cancel it or need more details. 
logo-paypal Is there anything else I can help you with today? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX- PayPal Assistant Yes, I need more help XXXXXXXX XXXX logo-paypal Let me know what you need help with. 
XXXXXXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant I cancelled the dispute with my financial institution XXXX what else needs to happen for the merchant to received the funds XXXXXXXX XXXX I see that you filed a case on XX/XX/XXXX. 
You filed it because you reported a suspicious transaction. 
logo-paypal Is this the one you want to close? 
XXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant yes XXXXXXXX XXXX  The case can not be closed because a chargeback was already filed with the card issuer. If you need help, please reach out to the bank that issued your card. 
logo-paypal Is there anything else I can help you with today? 
XXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant I closed it with my fin institution on XXXX they say it is now up to PayPal to pay the merchant. When will that happen? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX logo-paypal Are you contacting us about this topic : Payment Inquiry? 
XXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant No XXXXXXXX XXXX  I found some articles in our Help Center that might help you. Check them out! If you need more help, please rephrase your question or type " need more help ''. 
logo-paypal What's the difference between a dispute and a claim? 
How do I open a dispute with a seller? 
How do I close my dispute or claim? 
XXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant I closed it with my fin institution on XXXX they say it is now up to PayPal to pay the merchant. When will that happen? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX  logo-paypal Are you contacting us about this topic : Payment Inquiry? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX PayPal Assistant Yes XXXX XXXX I found some articles in our Help Center that might help you. Check them out! If you need more help, please rephrase your question or type " need more help ''. 
logo-paypal Can I change the payment method for Pay Monthly payments?

What payment methods can I use with PayPal? 
How can I accept payments? 
XXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant human being please XXXXXXXX XXXX logo-paypal Would you like to send this conversation to a customer support agent? We typically respond within a few hours. 
XXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant Yes XXXX XXXX logo-paypal If you haven't already, let us know why you're contacting us. Feel free to step away and we'll notify you by email or push notification when we've responded. 
XXXX XXXX - PayPal Assistant I closed a dispute with my fin institution on XXXX they say it is now up to PayPal to pay the merchant. When will that happen? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXX Hi XXXX! My name is XXXX. I appreciate your patience while I review your account. Please do not disconnect/ end the message and Ill respond to you shortly. 

XXXX XXXX - Rajib thank you XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX, I understand your concern regarding the chargeback for the amount of {$1300.00} USD. I have personally reviewed the case and I see that the case is still under review. I am not denying that you have already closed the case with your financial institution but on background they would still process some information and then inform PayPal. As soon as XXXX cancels the case with PayPal, the case would be closed automatically. PayPal do not have to take any action then as well. 

Please be advised that once a chargeback is filed with financial institution, PayPal looses all it's power to take action on the case. 

XXXX XXXX - XXXX who is XXXX? 
oh. you mean XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX That's correct, XXXX. Your financial institution. 

XXXX XXXX - XXXX XXXX says they are done and wont be doing any further actions bc the case was closed XXXX. 
XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXX A chargeback case can take up to 75 days to get completed depending on the financial institution. 

XXXX XXXX - XXXX yes, I understand, but they aren't going to do anything at that 75 day mark. 
they say the ball is in your court. you say the ball is in theirs. I don't have my book and I'm wondering what to do.. 
XXXXXXXX XXXX  XXXX As I mentioned that they might have closed the case with you but they still process some information on the backgroung and then inform sends information to PayPal as case closed. Until the information is passed on to PayPal, PayPal does not have permission to cancel the case. 

XXXX XXXX- XXXX XXXX says they are not going to do any more informing to PP, so I am truly confused about how this process is going to resolve XXXXXXXX XXXX  XXXX I do apologize for the unpleasant experience with the case. If the dispute was filed with PayPal, we would have canceled it by now. I contacted our backend team and I was informed that your financial institution has not responded to us with the further details regarding this chargeback case. Rest assured, I have further escalated this issue to our backend team to have a closer look on this case as it's closed by the financial institution and to get further details from them. 

XXXX XXXX - XXXX XXXX XXXX, in addition to that, could you please get in touch with the financial institution and ask them to respond back to us stating the case is closed on their end and to refund the recipient, so that PayPal can also close the case and help you further with this issue. 

I understand this is a tedious process however, I truly appreciate your patience. 

XXXX XXXX - XXXX I have done that twice. In fact 2 times I've gotten PP and XXXX  on a joint phone call .. with XXXX saying they will only communicate with me, and PP saying they can't act until XXXX  communicates with them ... it's a nest of a problem with no resolution on the horizon as far as I can see... 
XXXXXXXX XXXX  XXXX Feel free to reply whenever you're ready and we'll reply as soon as we can. 

XXXX XXXX  XXXX XXXX I completely understand how frustrating this can be for you. We wish we could help you to close the case but my apology. Until PayPal is informed by the financial institutions via the chargeback case that it's closed from their end, we have no option to to close it. 

XXXXXXXX XXXX - XXXX XXXX Once the case is closed, you will be notified via email. 

XXXXXXXX XXXX - XXXX XXXX Feel free to reply whenever you're ready and we'll reply as soon as we can. 

XXXX XXXX - XXXX when will we be at that 75-day mark? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX, I understand your situation. However, when the transaction was disputed with the financial institution, we were notified by them to keep the transaction on hold. 
PayPal is just the payment processor, is not able to step into the dispute and decide. That process isstrictly regulated, because we are not the ones who the dispute was opened through. 

Again, with that being said, financial institutions could take up to 75 days to resolve this issue. I know that is a very frustrating timeframe, but it isnt something that we would be able to work around unfortunately. 

Currently, we have not received any notification regarding the closure of the case, and it is mandatory for us to have a confirmation from the financial institution regarding the same. The decision of the investigating officer in the financial institution plays a major role in this case. Once we receive the notifiacation, we will be releasing the hold accordingly and you will be notified via an email regarding the proceedings of the case. 

I appreciate your patience and understanding in this matter. If you have no further queries, you may close the conversation by selecting End Message. 

XXXX XXXX  XXXX XXXX XXXX, I notice that PP says " financial institution '' rather than XXXX. Is PP waiting for proof of closure of the dispute from XXXX? Or is PP waiting for proof of closure of the dispute from another 'financial institution '? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX, PayPal is waiting for the proof of closure of the dispute from XXXX to whom you have filed he dispute case. 

Feel free to reply whenever you're ready and we'll reply as soon as we can. 

XXXX XXXX XXXX  XXXX Your file has been uploaded. 
XXXX - Dispu ... XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX says they closed the case and sent PayPal a notification to that effect. I've attached the letter from XXXX stating that the dispute was closed XXXX. They say they are done and are doing nothing further with this case as it is closed. 
XXXXXXXX XXXX Your file has been uploaded. 
XXXX - XXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX XXXX, I just sent you a reply with an attachment... did you receive it? 
hello? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXX I'm transferring you to the Investigations and Regulatory department that handles this and they'll review and respond as soon as they can. The response may not be immediate so we'll notify you when they reply. 

Please do not end or disconnect the message. 

XXXX XXXX - XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX. Thank you for your patience and information. I truly understand your trying to get this resolved. It can take 75 to 80 for us to receive a response from the card issuer. I know you shared the details but we have to receive it from them. This process takes a long time and I agree it shouldn't but nothing that can done right now on our side. Once the time passes we will know what decision was made and move forward with this chargeback. 

Thank you for contacting PayPal and for being a valued customer. You may close the conversation by selecting End Message. 

XXXX XXXX - XXXX XXXX XXXX, here 's the problem. PP says they are waiting to hear from XXXX and XXXX says they are done communicating on this issue as the dispute is closed. I don't see this ever getting resolved. How do you see it getting resolved? 
XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX Thank you for your response. I completely understand your frustrations and concerns. I do apologize as I still show your claim is being reviewed. It can take anywhere from 75-80 days for a chargeback to fully be resolved within our system. Once this has been closed we will send you and the merchant a confirmation email. 

In summary : PayPal has had my {$1400.00} for 2 months. My book seller may at any point sell the book I ordered to someone else. My XXXX XXXX XXXX nephew 's birthday present is 4 months late and counting, and I don't have any confidence that at the 75-day mark ( XX/XX/XXXX ) that anything is going to happen. I read on a PP consumers forum that another victim of the same scam had PP say ( at the 75-day mark ) that now it's a 180-day process ... ridiculous. I did ask PP if I could just pay the merchant directly to at least get the book and the PP person said, " yes, you can. then you will be paying double for the book. '' I desperately need help to get this resolved. Can you help me? 
Thank you, XXXX XXXX

Company response to consumer: Closed with explanation