Consumer complaint received 2018-01-24
Company: Paypal Holdings, Inc
State: NV
Product: Money transfer, virtual currency, or money service
Sub-product: Mobile or digital wallet
Issue: Fraud or scam

Complaint:
I run a XXXX XXXX XXXX that makes XXXX XXXX for people. 

Each item is made special for each buyer so it takes time for the item to be created. Our shipping time is between 14-21 days. 

Our shipping times and policies are clearly stated pre-purchase, post-purchase, and in a follow-up email. Our agreement of sale is very clear on our shipping times as well as all other issues covering custom orders. 


1. On XX/XX/XXXX - a buyer placed an order for a custom product for a total of {$160.00} The payment was processed by PayPal : Buyers Transaction ID : XXXX Transaction ID : XXXX Paypal fee : {$5.00} 2. On XX/XX/XXXX - I received an email from PayPal that the buyer ( Transaction ID : XXXX ) had opened up a dispute. 

The buyer had never contacted me. There was no email from the buyer about a 'non-delivered item '. The first I heard anything about anything was the email from PayPal that a dispute had been filed. 

Dispute reason : " Item not received. '' In the email from PayPal requested I provide them with tracking information and details. 

I immediately logged into the resolution center and provided a detailed response. 

I explained in detail that there was no tracking information because the item HAD N'T BEEN SHIPPED YET. I provided extensive details about our shipping policies and how they were between 14-21 days from the payment clearing. 

The order was placed on XX/XX/XXXX and the dispute for " Item not received '' was placed on XX/XX/XXXX. The time that had elapsed was only 12 days. Our policies state that the item will not be shipped for 14-21 days. 

It 's obvious to any reasonable person that there is no tracking information because nothing had shipped yet. It is impossible to provide something that quite simply, ca n't be provided. 

Any reasonable person at PayPal receiving my response to this dispute could clearly see that the dispute has no basis, no standing as it is not applicable. 

To recap : Each and every order is custom and takes time. It was n't scheduled to ship for another 9 days. 

I responded to PayPal in the dispute center and pressed the button in the " Action '' column, " Respond. '' At this point the dispute notification changed to : STATUS " Under Review '' The action button disappeared. 


3. XX/XX/XXXX - item was shipped to the buyer. NOTE : 15 days from order so obviously with the 14-21 day shipping window. 

( please see attached supporting image ) Tracking # 4. XX/XX/XXXX XXXX XXXX - Item was delivered to the Buyers address Event : " Delivered, Front Door/Porch '' So at this point our contractual obligation has been fulfilled. 

The item has been delivered by the appropriate means and in the appropriate timeframe. 


So imagine my surprise when. 

3. On XX/XX/XXXX I received an email from PayPal stating : " We 've completed our review of this case and decided in favor of your buyer. The buyer stated that they never received the item. '' I immediately called PayPal at XXXX XXXX ( XXXX ) I spoke with the representative explained exactly what happened. How it was incorrect and how the buyer received their item on time and exactly as ordered. 

I was understandably VERY upset as this is a situation escalated to where the buyer is OBVIOUSLY committing fraud on a XXXX XXXX and PayPal, after seeing my dispute response ( XX/XX/XXXX ) should be well aware of the situation. 

How this frivolous dispute could get this far, or even go in the buyers favor, is beyond any rational thought. 

The representative put me on hold at XXXX to get a supervisor. 

I stayed on hold until TIME ( see attached screenshot of hold time ) until the PayPal system hung up on me. 

After that experience I needed to take some time to calm down. Obviously PayPal knows what the situation is as I informed them and provided extensive details on our policies. We do hundreds of orders a year. They are all treated the same. It was sent on-time and in accordance with our policies. 

That should be the end of the story. 

4. XX/XX/XXXX ( XXXX ) - I called back to find out the status of my appeal and spoke with " XXXX ''. 

She asked for more supporting documentation, which I provided. ( Please see the attached images and documentation ). 

I emailed the documents at XXXX. 


I received an email stating that CASE ID : XXXX was CLOSED. 

The reason being that : " We were unable to cover this transaction under Seller Protection, as you did n't respond within the required timeline. '' This is unacceptable : - I responded immediately ( see XX/XX/XXXX email attachment ). Provided all the requested information as well as a detailed explanation of our policies and how the custom product was n't scheduled to ship for another 9 days. 

- I filed my response, within the timeframe ( which was immediate ), and the dispute notification in the resolution center changed to : There as no button to update any information. There was no email requesting more information. There was no contact from PayPal of any sort requesting any update or additional information. 

No contact of any sort stating that there would be more information needed ( other than the notification that I lost this dispute ). 


Any person in Paypals dispute dipartment could see in our provided response that the dispute had no standing. There was no tracking number to provide as the item had n't shipped yet. The dispute was opened 12 days into a 21 day shipping window. 

There was no contact of any sort from PayPal after my initial immediate response that provided the available information. 

A reasonable person in the dispute department could look at that email and say " Of course there is no tracking. It has n't shipped yet! '' The item was shipped and was received by the buyer on XX/XX/XXXX. Which was within the shipping timeframe agreed to upon purchase. 

Just like every order it was provided on time, correctly and in accordance with our purchase agreement. 


On XX/XX/XXXX : After finally getting escalated to someone who said they were " XXXX from PayPal '' and he was a manager in the Protection Services Department. 

After explaining the issue again, very slowly and detailed, he informed me that although he, as a person understood what was happening, that there was nothing that could be done. 

What happened next stunned me. I 'm still in shock about my conversation with " XXXX from PayPal '' He as a person understood what was happening but that there was nothing that could be done. 

He informed me that the decision was final for the buyer. 

The reason was : That we did n't provide a tracking number on XX/XX/XXXX. 

After explaining again that you CA N'T provide a tracking number for an item that HAS N'T SHIPPED within it 's allowable time-frame. I do this ALL THE TIME. I explained it in detail back in my dispute response on XX/XX/XXXX. The item shipped on XX/XX/XXXX and was delivered on XX/XX/XXXX. All within the policies agreed upon when the buyer made the purchase. 

" XXXX from PayPal '' again re-iterated that we should have provided a tracking number. 

'XXXX from PayPal ' then proceeded to tell us that even though he 'personally ' understood that there was no way to provide tracking information, because the item had n't yet shipped and that our email saying this was received and noted that we were STILL at fault. 

To say this conversation was maddening is an understatement. 

" XXXX from PayPal '' said that we should have let them know the tracking when we got it. 

I asked him where was I supposed to supply that information? 

There was no further REQUEST for that information. PayPal never said they needed any additional information after my initial response in the dispute section on XX/XX/XXXX. That response CLEARLY details the situation. There is no option to update anything just : STATUS " Under Review '' It was obvious why there was no tracking number. 

" XXXX from PayPal '' then told me that there is only a chance to make ONE response in a dispute. He acknowledged that there was NO OPTION to update my response in the dispute center. 

Incredulously I asked him then what was I supposed to do after the initial response. I did everything CORRECTLY with this purchase. I informed PayPal of that in my IMMEDIATE dispute response. 

" XXXX from PayPal '' then said that I should have " Picked up the torch '' and emailed or called PayPal with that information when I had it. That the " burden of proof '' was on me. Even though there was NO REQUEST for more information and even more galling, NO WAY TO UPDATE MY DISPUTE RESPONSE. 

I was told by " XXXX from PayPal '' that I should have found an email or called and updated it. I should have " made an effort ''. 

Stunned. 

To have this type of customer service interaction with PayPal, a company that I PAY MONEY to for each and every transaction was galling in the extreme. For " XXXX from PayPal '' to say that PayPal could do nothing and it was final was just making PayPal an accessory to this fraud. I 'm still in shock at the way that I was treated. 

For anyone at PayPal doubting my recollection of the events on the phone with " XXXX from PayPal '' on XX/XX/XXXX I encourage you to listen to the " recording that was done for QUALITY ASSURANCE ''. You will see what I was told. 

" XXXX from PayPal '' said that the seller ( me ) only had the initial ONE TIME to respond to this dispute ( XX/XX/XXXX ) then it changes status to " Under review ''. 

Which if you 're following along you 'll see that I did respond and there was NO tracking information as the item had n't shipped yet in it 's allotted window. 

There is no BASIS for the dispute. None. 

After going back and forth in a clear, documented and reasonable manner " XXXX from PayPal '' told me that the decision was final and that we should talk to the buyer. That PayPal could n't do anything. 

Even though we pay PayPal a fee for each transaction. 

Even though PayPal provides " seller protection '' Even though we provided ALL the detailed accurate information asked for with the dispute. 

Even though to any REASONABLE person it CLEARLY shows that there was no standing for this dispute on the part of the buyer. 

We did EVERYTHING correctly as we do with each and every sale. 

" XXXX from PayPal '' insisted that the burden of proof was on us. That we should have emailed someone at PayPal with the tracking information when we had it. That we should consider this the " price of doing business '' ( again I strongly encourage PayPal 'Quality Assurance ' to listen to the recording of my phone call if you find my claims to be incredulous ). 

The result of this is that the buyer committed fraud and PayPal was complicit in them doing it. 

They have all of the accurate information. They know EXACTLY what happened. They have detailed records of the past several years of how I do business and how there are never any problems. 

I ask anyone at PayPal to explain to me where I provided inaccurate information. Where I, as the seller, did something wrong. Where after reviewing the information that has been provided in any way, shape or form can ethically decide that the buyer is in the right with this. 

The complete dismissive treatment by Paypal for the money which I am legally owed has left me with no choice but to file this complaint with the CFPB. 

The fact that PayPal would blatantly toss aside all of the accurate information that there is a fraud that has been committed and would compound the situation by making me feel like it 's my fault. Is just disgusting. 
Any reasonable person who reads this complaint can see what happened here ( fra
ud on the buyers part ) as well as see the complacency by PayPal by blaming me for somehow facilitating this situation.

The money owed to me is legally mine from the completed sale and needs to be returned to me. This is theft pure and simple.

I appeal to any and all assistance that the CFPB can afford me in this manner.

Thank you.

Company response to consumer: Closed with monetary relief