are perpendicular it can be thought of as two waves one the "magnetic" part travelling along 4th dimension the "electro" part travelling through 3D vector space.) "I am not how Barbour's article is inconsistent. It was one of clearest articles in the bunch." I'm assuming that's not a freudian slip. Could you address my point directly? I'm not saying it wasn't clear, but that the underlaying logic is self contradictory. Admittedly there were some essays that were very unclear and thus difficult to figure out what the logical point was. The intervals of time which a clock measures are given by the total energy or Hamiltonian of the system. This is worked out in his essay for planetary motion. From this intervals of time are defined and in that sense measured. The upshot then is that time is something defined from the dynamics of a clock, whether that be planets in motion, pendulum or atomic motion, where that dynamics is not determined by time. But motion does not happen all by itself without energy input. Entropy would lead to the slowing down and stopping of the working of the universe as energy becomes unable to do useful work. However this has not, and is not happening. The objective material universe (not its electromagnetic image) is not becoming more disordered and slowing down but increasing in order and complexity which requires energy input. Energy is being converted to kinetic energy observed as angular momentum and mass energy observed as matter in