there any prospect that that's going to change? SCHEFFER: Well, I'll start that one. TOOBIN: Yes. SCHEFFER: Everything is relevant in terms of how long this might take. I think that ultimately -- I will be bold enough to say that I think the United States will be a part of the International Criminal Court. I think the real debate figures around two issues: one, how long should that take; how many years, what's the political strategy to get there, what steps do you roll out? Some of us have written quite a bit about that in terms of strategies. I put out a Century Foundation paper with Rear Admiral John Hutson on that issue recently that tries to spell out here are the steps you should take legislatively; here are the steps you can take diplomatically, to try to get to that end point of ultimately being part of the treaty, but at the same time protecting national security and national interests in the process. And that's the second issue, which has always dogged us, which is the exposure of our military to the jurisdiction of the Court. Now, that's a very long discussion. We don't have time to get into it. I'll just bottom-line it by saying that I think there really has been an evolution over the years as to an understanding and appreciation of that, at least among some elements of the military. I think there's still a very high mountain to climb with respect to