covenant administration (as distinct from covenant substance). The holiness of which Paul speaks here is that of being embraced by the covenant in its administration. It is membership in the visible church. He is not speaking here of the holiness of election/regeneration. David R quoting RS: Perhaps, but is that category found in Scripture? Why do you think that there is a type of holiness that one can have in the covenant of grace and yet not be a saving grace and a saving holiness? David R: Aren't we discussing a passage of Scripture?! Paul explicitly says here that the branches are holy and yet some are broken off. (But of course this is a detail that you don't want to press.) Old Comment by RS: If God has truly set apart one and made that one holy in His presence, He will keep that one persevering. Old response of David R to RS: True, all those who are holy in the sense of being united to Christ by God's effectual call will persevere. But that is not the holiness being addressed in this passage. David R quoting RS: But this is still getting at the heart of the New Covenant and how far one is to press the points of this passge. When Roman Catholicism was on the scene just before the Reformation they believed that infant baptism washed away the original sin of the infant and placed it in a state of grace. While Luther had a hard