,' or the working poor]. I always say, using popular language, that we are simply poor, meaning that we simply do not have the money to buy the things we need to have a good life. SS and JRW: What has been the role of the popular organizations in the 23 de enero in the process of change that has been taking place in Venezuela over the past 13 years? JC: From my personal point of view, it is impossible to have revolution without organized popular movements that also have [revolutionary] consciousness, that is, people that have political formation, ideology. There is no doubt that the popular movements are those which are the force behind the processes of political change that are taking place in Venezuela, but also across the continent. The blood that has moved through the veins of this struggle is the blood of the workers, students, peasants, indigenous and the people of barrios like 23 de enero. This change is not just happening in Venezuela. We see the indigenous behind Evo Morales' government in Bolivia, behind Rafael Correa's government in Ecuador, and also students, workers, peasants, humble people who have always resisted. In the 1960s, there was also a generation that fought for socialist revolution in Venezuela; these compaeros were ready to sacrifice their lives. Almost 3000 people lost their lives during this period of revolutionary struggle in the 1960s; they were 'disappeared' or killed by state security forces. We also must not forget the two revolutionary