themselves and I've always thought that the farmers had a pretty good head start when it came to eroded landscapes and siltation...Most agricultural areas in Australia have well documented population decline. The only research on the issue demonstrates that forestry may result in a move of people off the land to surrounding towns but that population in these regions remains stable. DJ : 27 Nov 2008 2:33:58pm Salient green, what you're saying may be true for rainforest stands that are adapted to single tree mortality but most of the old growth folks are concerned about is tall wet sclerophyll forest that is highlly dependant on fire or disturbed soil for seedling establishment. In the absence of this disturbance when these old trees die you'll probably get a cool temeprate rainforest (which sounds warm and fuzzy) but does nothing for the long term conservation of the hollow dependant species living in the old growth euclaypts...a single tree falling in the conditions you describe is higly unlikely to result in seedling establishment due to the lack of light and inadequate ground disturbance. A combination of lightning initiated fires and the ignition by the 'little monkeys' explains why eucalypts are so widespread in Australia. Do you need to know anymore more about forest dynamics? Groucho : 25 Nov 2008 8:29:13pm Actually Mark, the heading of this blog probably and ironically reflects your position as accurately as one could expect. "When fact, logic, and expertise is ignored" And on that level I reckon you