what I'm saying: here's a new entitlement you're introducing, but instead of it coming from the government coffers, it's coming from a tax on business. So I'm wondering if you're going to privatise any more entitlements? JOE HOCKEY: Well, Tony, again, I come back to the point: Australia has moved a long way over the years and it doesn't mean we shouldn't move further, but what we need to do is reduce the size of government, because we need to give people, individuals, families, small businesses more control over their lives to be able to compete with our nearest neighbours in Asia. It is a fundamental point. Now you can throw at me all night all the individual cases and I will say to you there are some cases that are better than others. But overall, the Europeans are now asking us through the IMF to subsidise them, to support them, to help them with their financial firewalls, they're asking Australian taxpayers to be on the hook, when they themselves are not only not undertaking any significant structural reform, but in some cases are arguing to extend the largesse of the state for the people. TONY JONES: OK, that's a very important point because you're talking now about the IMF request to Australia to provide $10 billion or more to this firewall fund the IMF wants to set up. Should the Australian Government do that in your opinion? JOE HOCKEY: Well the starting point should be that Wayne Swan must