those people together, but not randomly like throwing them into a room and letting them have a party, but guiding them towards these solutions that are likely to cross-fertilise their ideas and make them work. And then I would say another third thing that's become very important is the process of teaching inventors the entire value chain of how an invention turns into a product. That could be through a start-up, that could be through internal R&D and product development inside of a large company, it could be in a small company. There's many different ways in which things become real deployed innovations and we try to educate inventors on that entire process, and by so doing stop them from being isolated from the reality of what happens in a business. And that makes them better inventors. Antony Funnell : And you believe, don't you, that the approach that you talk about is what will be needed for society in general as it deals with some of the enormous problems that it faces in the future, is that correct? Edward Jung : Yes. Actually in fact if you just look at the last 50 years or 100 years, almost everything having to do with producing great product or new devices has become massively more efficient, whether you think about how you sell things, how you distribute them, how you ship them, how you design them, how you manufacture them, how you prototype of them, how you fund them, every one