there, in a way. It looked fucking intense. Exactly. You'd sort of come to and realize you're in the middle of a fucking desert somewhere. Like, "Jesus, how do we get out of here?" Yeah. But we used to go down to, like, Black Market, Fat Cat, Mr Bongo, Atlas Records, which is where Pete Herbert used to work. And Rough Trade and Ambient Soho, which was a funny little shop where every now and again you'd score something really good because no one else would look for the same promos we looked for there. But I never used to really go to any of the second-hand shops that much at that stage because we were just so into new music; I guess it must have been like that in New Zealand, as well. You wanted just the new tracks. Well you know, it's like anything: you get into something so much and you eventually start tracing it all the way back. OK, and when did you start playing around with production? It would have been about around the same time I started DJing, really. We were limited to whatever we had in school. The minute the personal computer came along... actually, I was born in the same year the first personal computer came out so you can kind of chart -- which was 1981 -- so you can kind of chart the history of the two things together. The personal computer perhaps being slightly more important in the history