to areas of expenditure where we believe there are substantial savings to be had. CURTIS: [Interrupts] Even if it's the cost - at the cost of people running small businesses in Canberra? GRAY: It's not the job of the Public Service to be an ecology that grows a whole range of businesses around it.  The Public Service serves our nation and serves the important client groups at the coal face that public servants need to serve and what we're also saying is we're looking for efficiencies in these areas. There are many private businesses that have grown robust balance sheets out of serving the public sector well and we expect that to continue.  What we're doing here is targeting specific activities. CURTIS: You're also cutting spending on $30 million a year on air travel.  That will come at a cost to airlines so there's potentially jobs and services that might go in airlines because they're losing $30 million dollars of public sector expenditure? GRAY: It's necessary when we look at the Government tightening its belt.  There are consequences of that and indeed, that $30 million comes on top of a previous save that we've already published and announced of in the order of $240 million in air booking savings. That's the right thing for us to do.  These costs of running Government are about running Government, they're not about the costs of supporting ancillary industries.  We need to pay for those air travels that need to be undertaken and no