have said, we will not have the data that we need to move on unless we try to do what the ISG findings point towards: using the hard boundaries, using the wider area and getting on and doing it. I have heard some hon. Members say that the coalition Government have cut spending on vaccination. Actually, since 1994, just over 40 million has been invested; over the next four years, the Government are planning to invest over 15 million. That means an acceleration of the effort towards vaccination. We still have problems with the tests. It is possible that the DIVA test will get us where we want to be, but we are still not there yet. The racticality of vaccination is another issue. We have talked about the practicality of a cull, but there are huge problems around vaccination. We would all like to get to a state where it is not necessary to carry out intervention of this sort in wildlife. We would all like farmers and others concerned about animal welfare issues to unite around something -- but we are not yet there. Effectively, we are saying, "Let's do nothing." On biosecurity measures, Kerry McCarthy , who, as she said, has looked a great deal at food policy, painted a bit of a picture of farmers who were completely lackadaisical and not at all interested in biosecurity. It is in their interests to be interested in biosecurity, as they are the ones who suffer in their businesses