interesting thread) LRD, that's interesting, I had never considered that. I think people experience different forms of oppression, it takes different forms, much like KRIT said way up thread. I do though think that all roads lead in the same direction. So to completely eradicate all discrimination and injustice we need wholesale change. I'm not certain that individual groups working in opposition will achieve this. I give you an example, Dworkins and Catherine McKinnon co-opted the support of the right wing in order to get the laws changed on censorship of pornography in several states and I think Canada. So two groups with completely conflicting ideas. So we get some censorship but no end to pornography. two rads hop into bed with right wing christians hell bent on taking away access to abortion. It suits the elite to have divisions because it dilutes the message and prevents participation. I certainly couldn't support their actions because I won't hop into bed with the right (no surprise there ) mini - yes, I see your point. I don't have anything more coherent to say in response than that, sorry! Not because you're not convincing but because my brain is mush. But I do see. cuervo - I dunno ... not having kids, but wanting them one day, I reckon those of you who already have children maybe have more cause to be smug? I think about it like this: obviously, someone has to have the child who grows up to be horrible.