it would be a challenge to convince 'the embroiled', but it is still important to provide the alternative opinion for the independent readers - I've found comfort from reading things you have written. VoR : bob the beard stroker : bob the beard stroker : 25 Nov 2008 3:41:35pm Please, Martin, share this mysterious truth that you, the Forestry Lobby "know". Show us the "facts" you are talking about, that we may judge them impartially. Or, continue with the straw man argument. Naomi : 25 Nov 2008 12:27:57pm I haven't had time to read all the comments but the one thing that always sticks out in these discussion is that people think that foresters are in it for the money. I am a forester and I can tell you that the people I went to uni with and the people I work with are all people who love the forests and love the outdoors. That is why we do the job we do. I don't work in the area but I truly believe that we can sustainably log native forests, and that the best silviculture for harvesting in south east australia is generally clear felling as we will get the best, most natural, regeneration. Sure it looks bad immediately but recovers quickly. So can I suggest that you find a forester and chat to them about their thoughts about forests. Not state premiers or authors, but the people who are managing the forests for conservation, community and so that you