I suppose the question is very specific. Are there any examples, apart from cluster munitions, where the fund has exercised the option to exclude, that is, it no longer invests in that particular industry or company? Dr Burgess : You are absolutely correct. The cluster munitions were excluded, but since the February policy. So the question is: during this last year have any specifically being excluded? The answer is no, but we have definitely very significantly engaged with companies, as we do, on an ongoing basis. Senator DI NATALE: Is that a reflection of the fact that you expect that your ESG approach is working and that in fact the companies you are engaged with are improving? Dr Burgess : We would expect companies to improve over time. We do engage with them, as I say, and we expect our managers to engage with them. I think our exclusions on the cluster side show that we have a clear exclusions policy. Yes, we would expect corporate behaviour to continually improve. We also expect to be participating in ensuring that we have the correct corporate officers and the right fiduciaries managing our investments, and that happens on an ongoing basis. I do not think that measuring in a short period of time how many you have excluded -- it is not like a football game -- is very useful. I think that it has to be very deliberate and very long term, and that is our philosophy. The best approach is