of a significant growth in Asia. If the Government was serious about the Asian century which they talk much about, they would start comparing us with our Asian neighbours when it comes to understandable levels of economic growth, inflation, employment and so on, rather than comparing us to countries in Europe and North America. TONY JONES: And entitlements, presumably, considering what you said earlier. JOE HOCKEY: Yes, and entitlements. It's a significant issue. TONY JONES: OK. Final quick question: your Finance spokesman Andrew Robb went out on a limb this week by defending the ANZ Bank after it put up interest rates independent of the Reserve Bank. Was it good politics to do that? JOE HOCKEY: Well I didn't see it as a defence of the ANZ; they can do that themselves. Andrew Robb and Tony Abbott and I have done this too, have pointed out that the Government, running a deficit, is borrowing $100 million a day in competition with the banks and therefore that's raising interest rates. And I see Julia Gillard continues to claim credit for an interest rate reduction she believes is coming in May, yet the fact is that what people are paying on their mortgages is more than what should be the case, and that's because the Government continues to borrow money in competition with the banks. TONY JONES: Joe Hockey, we'll have to leave you there. We thank you very much for taking the time to come and talk to us from London.