Hennail was difficult, in that sense. And we didn't want to get caught in that snare. JA: Percussion in the way we use it is sort of in a dance music format, and because we've grown up with that music, you're pre-programmed to understand those structures in a 4/4 structure. When you've got a beat going, your brain is already waiting for that snare or hi-hat to come in, and you know when that's going to happen. One of the points for us was to try and change the listeners' knowledge of when that's going to happen, so they feel a little lost in it, but without losing the security that that structure gives you. TH: That's the hardest part, finding the balance between being contrary to how you expect rhythmic things to work, and actually making a coherent work. JA: Yeah, and that balance and trade off is one of the things that interests us. Security and non-security. Your music has often been lumped in with ambient dub or dubstep, but that seems a tad reductive. Would you agree? JA: I don't ever want to say to any journalist, or anyone, that they can't call it what they like, because I've been doing the very same thing, as a fan and a record collector, and that's the condition in which you work. Those genres are certainly part of our musical heritage, but I'd hope they weren't the only parts. I'm glad you feel that they aren't the whole picture.