(twitch, twitch) and the advice. Maybe I do need to be more Sanktafied. On the other hand, though this may be too internal and all, at times things like this are helpful in dying to self. Theology is tough, but wrestling with one's own heart is tougher. Tozer said that people can use their creeds to hide their own hearts from them. I have found that to be true of others, but then most disturbingly of myself as well. So in discussions like this it is not just a matter of trying to convince others of an intellectual truth, it is also a time of the discovery of the self. RS: This phrase "It was not [only] imputed sin, declared unjustified on the basis of imputed sin, but then He had to live out that sinfulness by bearing that sinfulness" is also clear despite my leaving out one word (only). But you noticed that, so I have no idea why you continued to rant on and on saying that I deny the imputation of the sins of the elect to Christ. mark: I was simply giving a quotation from Flavel. I guess I get no credit for noticing you maybe left out a word. And I can't give you credit for ignoring what I had to say about the error and lack of clarity in your remarks. Your focus on the "sinfulness" that Jesus is bearing sounds like some six hour mystical experience, and it distracts from the meaning of