So they sort of standardised this cultural ritual.  So in a sense, Carnaval's a good example that people buy that music because they like it, because they listen to it on the radio and they want to have more of it.  So in that sense, it's consumer driven at a grass roots level but at the same time, the government's recognising the power of this and says, let's harness this. ERIC VAN BEMMEL Very much dependent upon the role of technology in pushing this message. MARSHALL EAKIN Yes, so I mean, part of my argument is that what you have is waves of technology going.  Radio emerges in Brazil in the 1920s and in some ways in the 1930s and 1940s this is the golden age of radio.  This is what makes samba possible as a national kind of music.  It spread samba across the country as radio spreads across the country.  By the 1950s, the 1960s, film makes it possible to reach all of Brazil, although not simultaneously.  It's really television, beginning in about 1970 in Brazil, where you, for the first time in Brazilian history, can simultaneously reach literally everyone within Brazil's national boundaries. This is why sport is so important.  The 1970 World Cup, which Brazil wins in Mexico with Pele, is the third time they've won the world cup in four outings, is this phenomenal moment in which the country is galvanised by their team, wearing their colours, singing their national anthem and winning the world