everything on stirring up its private sector economy to get growth back and it's giving way on fiscal policy, it's letting fiscal policy run. But in Europe, it's the opposite. They're focusing on fiscal policy and they're totally ignoring attempts to try and shore up the private sector. So one of them's got to be wrong over the next few years and it's going to have a profound impact. TONY JONES: I'll come to the European situation in a little bit more detail later, but I'm going to bring you to the Australian situation since you could well be running the economy here after the next election. So here's a quote from your speech: "Entitlement is a concept that corrodes the very heart of the process of free enterprise which drives our economy." Does that apply to Australia? JOE HOCKEY: Well it can, yes, it can, of course. Because, the bigger the government, the less control people have over their own effort, over their own work. And the longer - during the course of the year, the more time you spend working for the Government, that is, paying tax, the less time you work for yourself and your family. And the best way to create wealth is to give people more control over their own money and that means you look at ways to reduce tax. Now when you compare our tax ... TONY JONES: OK, I'm only going to interrupt you there to allow you to expand on that