energy to continue to engage. I think it's very interesting that the word 'enthusiasm' comes from enthios, or 'being in God', and so both Annie, Ange and I try to find ways of experiencing something of the vitality, the energy, the enthusiasm that comes with that continued encounter with God. Ange: I think as Dave was talking I thought of the refugees and they speak to me in a thousand ways about God, by their example, by their suffering, and by the dignified way in which they have addressed enormous hurdles that they have had to cope with, and become able to sort of get through, to be hopeful, they're having their dances, they're having their community gatherings, they're having their celebrations, they are actually encouraging each other towards a new future and to me that's inspiration, and they have come through the worst of it. And I feel challenged by that all the time, and draws for me spiritual awakening that's ongoing and also that I do a lot of reading around a lot of themes especially to do with the spirit, what the name of your program is, which is The Spirit of Things, because to me, without all these things that maybe we might immerse ourselves in, are nothing without the spirit of it. They have no meaning unless it comes from a really good place that's actually growing inside us, and growing inside other people, and it sort of awakens something in them too, you know.