have a ladder into apprenticeships rather than going straight into a demanding skill course associated with a job. We recognise that there is that transition issue, therefore, and I am working with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions in particular on how we address it. Recession (Small Businesses) 2. Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): What assessment he has made of the effect of the recession on small businesses. [119392] The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Vince Cable): These are tough economic conditions for all sorts of businesses, including small and medium-sized businesses, but the small business sector is showing signs of considerable resilience. The number of small and medium-sized enterprises grew to 4.5 million at the 6 Sep 2012 : Column 364 start of last year -- an increase of over 270,000 since 2008 -- and the proportion of people involved in setting up and running new businesses has increased to over 7.5% in 2011, up from under 6% in 2009. Ann Clwyd: I am afraid that is not true in the Cynon Valley. Earlier this week I was talking to small businesses, who said the failure of the banks to lend has made it very difficult for them to expand and take on new workers, such as the former Remploy workers in my constituency who were so disgracefully sacked by the Government last month. We have had enough of the donkey talk of carrots and sticks. Is it not time to hold the bankers'