on a boat and come to Australia. Van Onselen: And that's part of the toughing up of the policy, I guess, to make it tougher like that. I just want to play something that Kevin Rudd said a little while ago. Let's take a look. Kevin Rudd: [grab] This government will not be lurching to the right on the question of asylum seekers, as some have counselled us to do. Van Onselen : That was him on the night of the coup. Is that what's happened? Bowen: Well, what we've got is our regional solution, with the involvement of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, who very heavily shaped this arrangement in terms of their feedback and consultation. And, as I've said, we are taking an increase in net refugee: taking 4000 souls and giving them a better life in Australia, people who either can't afford, in most cases, to take the dangerous boat journey to Australia or are not inclined to risk their lives and their families' lives. And I don't think they should be disadvantaged. Paul Kelly: But, minister, this is a much tougher policy than what we saw under the Rudd Government. Bowen: Well, it clearly is a tough message, it is; no question, that if you take that boat journey to Australia we're going to take you back to Malaysia. As you said in your introduction, 80 or 90 per cent of boat arrivals in Australia come via Malaysia. People tend to fly to Malaysia