Peru, China and Indonesia are other big miners. The largest suppliers of refined copper are China, Japan and Chile, reflecting where the smelters are. The biggest user is China. Numbers two, three and four are Western Europe as a whole, the U.S. and Japan. One of the future wild cards will be India because it is the world's second-largest country in terms of population. Lots of people still don't have electricity and a big portion of their electrical grid went down briefly last summer. Copper demand is going to be driven number one by China and number two by the rest of Eastern Asia; that would include mainly India and Indonesia. Further out, it will be sub-Saharan Africa. About 25% of the world's population still can't turn on a light switch at night. That's one of the reasons I'm a long-term bull on the copper market. TCMR: Are most of the producers long established, or are there some new projects that have the potential to change the supply-demand fundamentals going forward? MF: There are new projects coming along, but for the most part they are either brownfield projects or they are much lower grade than we are seeing for current producers. The problem is we cannot find enough good copper deposits to replace the reserves that are currently being mined. Established producers are mining lower and lower grades at higher cost and, based on supply and demand fundamentals, copper prices must continue to rise over the longer term. But by