character. That can give you a strength that you don't normally have. When you perform that in front of people on stage, it's not you any more, paying your bills, mowing your lawn, it's that character. It's like you're not really there - it's been my experience since 1985, my first show with Swans, that I'm not there, I'm gone. I'm the character of the song. That's what is weird about my own shows, it's just my own way of doing it. That's what enables the voices, the tonality and all that. I know that sounds fucking weird, but it's the truth! Perhaps an inevitable question at this point but since you've mentioned Swans a couple of times now: their new album is out, The Seer , which you have a guest appearance on - and that caught a few people by surprise! So, simply put, how did it happen? J: Well, they played in Atlanta last September and I went to the concert - I had to go to the concert! I sat there in the audience, the same theatre that we had played at in 1995 and 1997, and in 1997 it was the very last American show of the band at that time. So it was quite emotional for me, as you can imagine, being there in the audience instead of being on the stage. I sat there, and it was hard - tears were running down my face, not from sadness, but from recognizing the vocabulary,