And I said ' well, it means something to me because I've done human rights but I don't think it means something to most people in the country where I live'. And then someone else said 'balanced democracy means something', and I thought mmm...and she said, I can explain that. And I thought great, nobody would know what that means and we'd probably be attacked for being too one sided if the concept were balanced. So it's a challenge... JG: Charlotte Bunch is executive director of the Centre for Women's Global Leadership and is working on the reform of the gender architecture of the U.N. CB: What's been interesting for me here is to see different women's groups from local struggles, how they've been thinking about democracy. To be honest it hasn't been my own major theme, democracy. I've been working more from human rights and peace and security. But it has helped me to think about, ok -- work that we do on human rights, peace and security is really about democracy and it is about realizing that democracy, so I probably will use the word more than I have. I will describe how what we are doing fulfills democracy. And probably before the conference, I didn't think about it that way very much. It's not really that I've heard new things about democracy, but just a kind of re-invigorated idea of how to utilize that discourse in what we're doing. JG: Kavita Ramdas is executive director of the