get it. Do you believe that when someone becomes a WARD of the STATE that they shall submit to a certain standard of living conditions and behavior? Apr 21 2012: socialism would not work even with people's full consent. then problem with it is not that it contradicts human nature, but that it replaces trial and error with central planning. without the "swarm intelligence" of the market, economic growth is impossible. that is known for almost a hundred years now. known by those few that listened. not for the majority. Apr 21 2012: William your reasoning is totally fallacious and luckily for me, its in a nutshell. You say 'because the government will have to force these people to be productive or live by a certain standard' this 'forcing' you refer to is called 'civilisation'. It is by definition a process of agreements, written and unwritten between groups and individuals. You cannot change the nature of that by denying one 'ism' over another. Of course I am for 'no govt and no controls' but only if you also concede, rent, profit, interest and wage labour are also acts of coercion and do away with those too. Kirsztian. Socialism IS working. Today. Around the world in several beautiful places. I have even lived in some of them. Where is your system working around the world today? (and please do not forget I know the answer to that question, and have lived there too. You wouldnt like it, trust me) Apr 22