case against one of the leaders in Washington, who is living in the States and we could bring a human rights case against him. And of the things that always happened when people talked about the Algerian situation, which is typical of many, is 'well the Algerian government stopped the elections and the reason that there's violence is because they called off the elections'. Which is not true in the sense that you had growing an incredibly violence, dangerous theocratic movement that was hell bent on eliminating any possibility of democracy - which wasn't very great at the time but which was a little bit opening. You had civil society out in the streets demanding that the elections be called off because of the fact that they were not going to be legitimate and real and so from that time on and for other reasons, living in the United States and hearing 'democracy' and knowing how limited that concept is, the notion that elections are democracy was infuriating. So we would talk about, you can't have democracy without human rights. And when you see human rights very broadly it gets to a great deal of what we want to accomplish in terms of democracy. I think it's a difficult question that we were just talking about in small group. I think the difficulty is in the different cultural situations, different words mean something. For example the Mexican woman today in our group said 'well substantive democracy means something to me'.