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Not every exception and exception can be taken into account. —LCHAWK (debate) 22nd September 2017 at 08:08 (EEST) Furthermore, it is a primary source where the full accuracy of information cannot necessarily be trusted.


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Different names have also been able to appear for a variety of reasons throughout time, cf.


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e.g. Kari Mattila (feminist), and all these reasons cannot be known (cf.


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e.g., those Stanley Ann Dunham et al). —Urjanhai (debate) 22 September 2017 at 09:37 (EEST) For some names, the suspicion arises that there are random errors of data entry, etc., in terms of gender.


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Mariahan is clearly of Catholic name tradition, but some of those “and for two women,” “and three men” can hardly be anything more than data entry batting errors.


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Or at least it cannot be taken from the fact that the information is absolutely certain to be fact, because it is a primary source.


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The assumption that this would be the case is dirt strong.


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Therefore, in my opinion, such small figures should not be reported at all.


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Personally, I've always deleted these from name articles.


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In the literature on nomenclature you can find information about the use of names.


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In last names, the Population Register Centre, for privacy reasons, indicates low numbers of names in the style of “less than five”. —Urjanhai (debate) 22 September 2017 at 09:25 (EEST) Better, of course, can be to say, for example, that “the name has been” so and so in a man/woman.


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Probably a lot more names change and have changed due to a change of first name than gender change, and there have been plenty of changes in the first name for many reasons other than gender change.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 22nd September 2017 at 09:33 (EEST) I have also observed a feature on that VRK site that whenever a name has been given to less than five (but at least one) person in a given period (usually 20 years, for example 1980—1999), the table reads for both sexes “under 5".


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That is, it never has zero in one column, and in the other the inscription “less than 5".


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This manifests itself so regularly that it probably is a feature programmed into the system.


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If the only row for which a column of either gender has a row different from zero is just that, it is probably even more likely that the actual number is zero.


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On the other hand, it is true that some new names were initially given to both girls and boys, until they gradually became established as either male or female names.


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Moreover, it is well known that Maria, for example, is commonly found in Spanish-speaking countries as a second first name for males, as well as Marie in France, and there are also some Spanish and Latin American immigrants in Finland who may therefore have it name.


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When it has sometimes been pointed out in a message to me, I have not added such “and to a few men” mentions since then, but I did not.


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Maybe they should.


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-KLS (debate) 09:42 (EEST) On 22 September 2017, of course, names are changing more because of a change of first name than official gender change.


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That was not the point of this conversation.


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The idea was that I find it inane Wikipedia to assume that a specific name is “given to two men” if the name is very likely to have been taken by two trans women who, at the moment of that statistic, have been read by a man in the population register.


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I think the article could just say that the name has been around 3500 Finns, according to 2017 data, without any trivia about two “men” who, in real life, would be offended if they were called such. —Fotogurachan (debate) 22 September 2017 at 10:57am (EEST) To put it another way; when Wikipedia says that the name is “given to two men”, it clearly gives me the impression that the name has been chosen for some man's name.


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If, however, in the case a trans woman has adopted that name as a woman's name as part of her gender correction process, there is the truth of something completely different than Wikipedia's misleading description.


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Of course, Wikipedia cannot know which one has the truth about which name; therefore, those single men in women's names and women in men's names would generally be best left unmentioned. —Fotogurachan (debate) September 22, 2017 at 11:18am (EEST) The article lies/misrepresents information found in the source?


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I get from the presented source named Maria at the end of 2009 363600, of which men 450, cf.


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by the article “In Finland, 361,867 people have been enrolled in Finland by the end of 2009, 307 of whom are men”.


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (debate) 22 September 2017 at 6:12pm (EEST) This is more likely due to the fact that the figures have changed since the page was written; more people born before 2009 have moved to Finland, and people have been able to change their name to Maria.


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That, too, is one of the reasons why I don't think we need to give you exact figures. —Fotogurachan (debate) September 22, 2017 at 6:17pm (EEST) Your explanation is good.


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That is, a source has been used that is not reliable for the issue/which is not verifiable, i.e. Mark Sources —The policy has been forgotten.


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (debate) 22 September 2017 at 7:29pm (EEST) Displaying wiki projects Would it be an idea to display wiki projects for en-wiki?


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That's where they have discussion pages full of them.


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I believe that in that way the number of participants or activity on them would increase considerably.


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Jlöstalo (debate) 18 September 2017 at 11:45pm (EEST) I have now started to disseminate the quality model of the social project I made, for which I used this as a model.


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—Jlöstalo (debate) 21 September 2017 at 20:17 (EEST) In Enkkuwiki, the fact that the link to the discussion page is blue on the article page, but there is no discussion message on the discussion page.


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—Savir (debate) 21 September 2017 at 20:22 (EEST) True, in enwiki all articles have a discussion page created.


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But on enwiki as such, that's probably a really workable thing because it's such a big wiki.


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Fiwiki is so small that a similar thing wouldn't make sense here.


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Stryn (discussion) 21 September 2017 at 8:30pm (EEST) Just as I said at the beginning, it might be a way to activate new users and perhaps that is why en-wiki has grown as big as it is now.


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The negative feedback given by a few does not represent the entire user base.


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—Jlöstalo (debate) 21 September 2017 at 21:31pm (EEST) Agreed with Savir.


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You can compile lists of articles that are intended to improve on the project pages of wiki projects.


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—Raksa123 (debate) 23 September 2017 at 00:10am (EEST) I too am worried about withering wiki projects.


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The language issue may be of surprising importance.


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It may be that the “Oriental” and “Euro-languages” — perhaps excluding French and Spanish — but including German; on Middle Eastern and Russian languages, I am not taking a position here; — wherever this may be, there is an extremely strong influence of Anglism.


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Apparently the whole of Wikipedia wouldn't exist without American English.


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Kudos to the creators of this.


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Relate to the next.


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—Feathers (debate) 23 September 2017 at 08:26 (EEST) Enkkuwiki does not much discuss articles like we have.


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We have a different and, in my opinion, better practice.


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Wiki projects are (also) volunteer activities and most involve only one or no actors.


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Weren't these unworkable ones already closed?


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On the other hand, a couple of actives are excellent.


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I'm going to throw this kind of idea here, which is not a suggestion.


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We still have a fungus project that works.


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Recently, the late mycologist Ilmo Kotivuori maintained his own flat jacket project, but his supposedly trustworthy base sadly failed and the operation had to be stopped.


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The Finnish Sieniseura subsequently put an identification section on Facebook, which in turn had to be closed until further notice because it was hijacked by the impeditors.


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Unfortunately, even because of its feisty admins, Wikipedia seems more trustworthy than both, despite its problems.


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Any suggestions come to mind?


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—Feathers (debate) 23 September 2017 at 08:26am (EEST) I mention that I have always been so frustrated by the phenomenon mentioned by Savir on the English Wikipedia (and in a couple of other big language versions), and I would hate to see it spread here.


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Talk pages containing a WikiProject box alone could be deleted as useless, if they have already been born here.


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—Rasukarhi (debate) 1 October 2017 at 1:48pm (EEST) A few of my own thoughts on Wiki projects.


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I think the biggest benefit of wiki projects is that they have documentation in one place that relates to writing about a specific topic.


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The wiki project lists topic models, example articles and notes on agreed courses of action.


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Perhaps the best example of fiwiki of this is wikiproject:geographic coordinates.


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To work this way, then the wikiproject does not need a visible user base.


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What a working wiki project needs though is for potential users to find a wikproject.


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Geographic coordinates with wiki project it is the linkages in the template instructions.


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Another wiki project that works for me has been the wiki project:video games, which doesn't have many participants, but the topic has had editors all the time.


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The project has also been able to agree on clear goals and implement them together, which I think is one good metric for a working wiki project.


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The main avenue for visibility of a video game project is the theme page link at the end of the data boxes (e.g. Mirror's Edge) and the one at the top of category pages (e.g.


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Category:Video games developed in Sweden).


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What the video game project lacks is linking the help pages of templates used in the project to WikiProject.


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For a video game project, when thinking about that visibility, the template was taken from frwiki with those categories wiki project templates, theme page links at the end of the articles and wikiproject links on the discussion page of the article like enwiki.


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(e.g. FR:Antoine_de_Saint-Exupéry) —Zache (debate) 23rd September 2017 at 09:57 (EEST) For wiki projects and other such stories, one could consider a dedicated tab as a follow-up to the “Articles” and “Discussion” tabs, e.g. “Projects”.


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That's when the reader finds what he wants most easily.


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—Savir (debate) 23 September 2017 at 11:58am (EEST) The Finnish Wikipedia used just such a third tab.


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It was called Metapage, it worked in its own namespace (Metapages:) and with that, at least, the template space pages became another backpage using some special technical solution.


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However, in the community it was decided to abandon Metapages.


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Narrowly interpreted, the decision means that specifically the Metapages as they were, are not wanted to be seen.


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Widely interpreted, the decision may mean that a “third page” is not desired, but rather a discussion page suffices as any page's own background page.


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This just for the record.


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—Pxos (debate) 1 October 2017 at 2:21pm (EEST) Change: Corrected comments.


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—Pxos (debate) 1 October 2017 at 2:25pm (EEST) Auto-screened and own selection Can the active modifier decide that he does not want to be auto-screened?


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This means the screeners will have to go through his every article edit.


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In my view, there is nowhere in screening practice that auto-screened marking is within the user's own decision, but at the discretion of administrators who issue it or remove it.


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(however, has been removed from the auto-screened status at the user's own request.)


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—Jmk (debate) 29 September 2017 at 07:50 (EEST) In my opinion, the starting point is that all users who are actually modifying are automatically screened and the removal of rights is an exceptional case that can be followed if there is a reasonable reason for doing so.


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Simply wanting the user's own is therefore not enough, because in this case the failure to be automatically screened will cause others extra work.


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A legitimate reason, in turn, could be that the user edits the Finnish Wikipedia in order to learn Finnish and he or she doesn't really know how to write it yet, and the editor therefore prefers not to be automatically screened.


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—Zache (debate) 29 September 2017 at 10:55am (EEST) I saw me too.


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—Jmk (debate) 29 September 2017 at 10:56am (EEST) If you cannot opt out of the automatic screening right, then I think you need to change the current Screeners Policy.


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The current Screeners policy is eo.


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well done as far as the point is concerned.


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (discussion) 29 September 2017 at 12:55pm (EEST) I wrote something here first, but while recording a comment, there was a notice of duplicate editing.


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I will throw the draft in the dumpster and [T] take that this discussion has established the validity of a valid conception.


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Myself, I agree with those who agree.


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I will write clarifying text on the right page.


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—Pxos (debate) 29 September 2017 at 12:58pm (EEST) Change: The retrospective deletion of the part which has caused the actual issue to be disconnected and led to a completely new debate on practice further down the line.


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—Pxos (debate) 1 October 2017 at 3:30pm (EEST) Is reporting duplicate editing official practice?


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The general interest in this is probably why some users report that they have made a duplicate edit.


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That's why I just asked it after Pxos's comment, but the question got lost in a glimpse.


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Whether I do my own question, whether those overlapping ideas that the author may have rejected are visible to someone or why they need to be told that they have written but subsequently become streetwise.


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For himself, you can report directly from the mouth to the ear.


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The rest of us could hardly be less interested except if they are already coming to someone's eyes.


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That is, is the announcement a duty dictated by practices, an exercise in remorse, or something else?


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—85.76.78.133 1 October 2017 at 2:58pm (EEST) It is essentially a disclaimer in case something palms came to be done in edit conflicting.


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Not everything small needs to be written into policies.


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jni (k) 1 October 2017 at 3:01pm (EEST) and the same in Finnish?


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—85.76.67.63 1 October 2017 at 3:02pm (EEST) Samma på engelska här.


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This whole debate is quite pointless seeking attention for their own interjections.


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—Pxos (debate) 1 October 2017 at 15:05pm (EEST) I only know Finnish and a little Swedish, but I thought this was a Finnish wikipedia with a reply in Finnish.


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What is disclaimeri and edit conflicting?


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With the palm I can guess the thing about the connection.


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Pxos's rudeness would merit another request for comment.


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You yourself seek attention with your strange intervals from morning to night.


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—85.76.78.95 1 October 2017 at 3:17pm (EEST) So as I said, it is from my observation that we start barking Pxos from behind the changing IP address first in a veiled manner and then clearly.


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Notify colleagues who, if necessary, moderate the discussion.


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—Pxos (debate) October 1, 2017 at 3:18pm (EEST) Conspiracy?


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If you answered the question and didn't start freaking out, no problem would have come, but I'd rather get the mess anyway.


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Administrators can do whatever they want, but treating users overly is very nasty.


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Wikipedia might be a better place if everyone just responded substantively and simply without unnecessary bends.


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—85.76.71.151 1 October 2017 at 3:44pm (EEST) This is not official practice or Wikipedia policy.


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Reporting duplicate editing in a summary or discussion comment is a permissible way to report duplicate editing (edit conflict) when the author sees the need for it.


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There is no compulsion to report and also no compulsion not to report.


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This is how the question posed by the headline has been answered.


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The debate will undoubtedly continue for the sake of balance so as to berate the respondents and stop barking at the questioner.


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—Pxos (debate) October 1, 2017 at 3:48pm (EEST) YouTube videos This article seems to have a few links to YouTube videos.


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However, I recall hearing of the principle decision that linking to YT videos would be at least undesirable if not prohibited under ambiguous copyright issues... Do I dodge the wall? —Eskog-67 (debate) 19 October 2017 at 9:51pm (EEST) You can link to the official channel in the other section, but you must be careful that there is an official channel.


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We have a template to get the links directly to the channel.


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Stryn (debate) 19 October 2017 at 21:57 (EEST) Binding of the request for comment If the request for comment gives support to the general matter, will the decision become practice?


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This is a Wikipedia:Request for Comment/Otrfan Action #Otrfanin Opinion proposal, which was supported by nearly 90% of those who voted. —Phiitola (debate) 2 October 2017 at 5:16pm (EEST) The question is good in theory.


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I'm responding with my own opinion.


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I see that proposal as a “confirmation action”, in which the Community has been asked to clearly state whether any existing procedure or praxis is still in force as it has always been.


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Based on the result, the community is of the opinion that things are as Otrfan argues, presents or, in his settlement, suggests.


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So that does not create a new policy, but establishes an existing practice (praksis).


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In Wikipedia, on the other hand, written policies (policy) can arise in different ways.


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As a rule, either by discussing the issue long enough to create a consensus, or by writing down the prevailing, jointly accepted procedures.


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I would see for myself that, based on that solution, it can be written somewhere as a guide or policy text the contents of a solution proposal, or it can go untyped.


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In any case, it is valid, and it can also be concluded from the Opinion that it has been in force before the request for comment was initiated.


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—Pxos (discussion) October 2, 2017 at 5:28 p.m. (EEST) Import significantly changes the position of IP users because “identified IP” is the user's alternative ID regardless of the accuracy of the claim.


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In addition, the proposed solution does not restrict the method of identification, i.e. the administrator (or other user) can make an “identification” based on one or a hundred edits or without justification. —Phiitola (debate) 2 October 2017 at 6:32pm (EEST) I do not see a barrier that the practice cannot arise on a common law basis, even if it is not recorded anywhere other than the solutions for comment requests.


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Evaluating the screen (e.g. whether user A is User B's sock puppet or not) is entirely different from the question of whether someone has a procedure in accordance with policy or not.


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jni (k) 2 October 2017 at 8:17pm (EEST) If a comment request solution creates a policy, it must be entered into the Policy so that new users (and old ones) do not have to guess the basis for evaluating their activities or any other feedback they receive.


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The result of the request for comments should be published, because without general binding, the vote in question must essentially be equated with bullying purposes (expelling wikipedist by any means) and thus tying the result to only one person is subject to Wikipedia's terms of use violating and policies. —Phiitola (debate) 18 October 2017 at 10:38pm (EEST) Based on this policy debate, it seems that only a few members of the Community have taken a position on this issue, but opinions are in one direction.


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Apparently, therefore, the Community believes that matters can be valid without being specifically recorded as a policy text.


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On the other hand, practices change with discussion.


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In a different case, when it came to who is allowed to “moderate conversations”, that is, edit and delete text from discussion posts, the issue was decided in parallel both in the comment request and in the policy discussion versone about it.


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If we want to confirm this separately, I suppose it can be done for peace of mind.


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The first sentence of the Opinion adopted in the comment request read as follows: User editing history should be used to identify the user, as has always been so far.


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This gives the following format as the policy text: User editing history can be used to identify the user.


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So let me write that down as a policy text, because there is a consensus on this.


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The correct place for the sentence is probably Wikipedia:Many usernames.


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—Pxos (discussion) October 22, 2017 at 12:13pm (EEST) Charges of Harvey Weinstein sexual violations article in terms of practices and neutrality New User:Justmether created an article Prosecuting Harvey Weinstein's sexual misdemeanors, the first version of which seemed quite poorly translated and crafted.


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The article suggests film producer Harvey Weinstein committed sexual assault or even rape.


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The article is completely unsourced and doesn't come up with anything new in relation to the Weinstein article itself (anonymous accusations, separation from a couple of organizations) The article violates, in my opinion, the practice of Wikipedia:Articles about living persons by spreading offensive information without sources, so I marked it for deletion.


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Since deletion was not approved and the article is still there, how should one deal with the like.


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What if someone created articles about Jyrki Katainen's forgery of documents or Paavo Väyrysen's pinch noise, in which it was reported in Hymy magazine that a flight attendant accused Väyry of pinching in the 1980s.


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Articles like this easily rise with a person's name when googling to the top of results due to Wikipedia's high visibility.


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At worst, the tactic has been used for trolling, e.g.


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some Yankee celebrities have tried to make the names of some Yankee celebrities, e.g. by making threads on different message boards with the headings “NN killed a man” or “NN raped a child in the 80s” so that these would appear on ko.


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when googling a person's name.


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IMHO, also article titles should stick to a neutral viewpoint.


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The stirs, gossip and sensations shouldn't be the main topic of the article.


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These can be mentioned in a person's article, but cases should not be exaggerated.


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Side articles on individual cases should not be done if there is space in the main article.


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—Mikko Paananen (debate) 20 October 2017 at 6:52pm (EEST) Väyrysen's pinch story is nothing short.


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I was told by a person on the same flight, and it was a very public secret anyway.


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But I'm sure you don't need your own article, but if you find the sources, then I do not need a single sentence to Väyry's article.


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—85.76.72.147 20 October 2017 at 7:16pm (EEST) I have extreme reservations about such articles.


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There is, and whether it is worth putting at least a mention in the main article - let alone create a page article - at least not as long as the case is pending and there is no court order.


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Articles written about much bigger crimes have been deleted as unremarkable. —ESKOG-67 (debate) 20 October 2017 at 10:40pm (EEST) Do you think there is not enough publicity yet?


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Bigger is in the eye of the beholder, socially significant topics take precedence over drunken mutual quarrels even if bodies are born.


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—87.93.72.185 October 21, 2017 at 07:40 (EEST) The title is neutral because it details an existing significant phenomenon as it is.


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The headline, for example, does not present Weinstein as being the perpetrator, but a suspect, so the name violates neutrality as little or as much as any newspaper or newscast that has brought about this incident that gained international attention.


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The article also already exists in several language versions, although in the German version it is cleverly named Scandal, which could be a workable solution here too.


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The scandal is not just a rumour, it is a situation where the rumour has moved to something broader.


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Certainly, any scandal is significant in its own right, if it is widely noted and has significant consequences.


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Harvey Weinstein's career is not limited to this case, but the person article contains far less content about his career than his criminal suspicion, so to keep the balance together is not worthwhile.


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So, this information is worth keeping as its own main article, of course it can be named the Harvey Weinstein scandal, etc. —Ukas (debate) 21 October 2017 at 2:38pm (EEST) The significance of the article is to be discussed on the discussion page of the article.


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But while we're here, I'll tell you what I think, it seems ridiculous to me an article listing the people who keyed a certain kind of tweet.


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Again, it would be better to wait to see what the outcome of the hassle will be, and until then write about the allegations briefly in an article about Harvey Weinstein, as well as the broad MeToo campaign in itself to an article on sexual harassment and/or sexual offences.


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Anyone remember how in a similar Bill Cosby case was delivered here (I don't)?


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—Lax (debate) 23 October 2017 at 12:29pm (EEST) You can delete the list, but the main point in the matter reported by the tabloid was not the reference, but the sharing of the experience of sexual harassment and the status of a known person as a paragon.


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—Thi (debate) October 23, 2017 at 12:35pm (EEST) Well, I see there is an article about the Cosby case too, so as far as my own article on this case is logical.


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But you could slash the name of the article and the content too.


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—Lax (debate) 23 October 2017 at 12:40pm (EEST) Personal data and place names Mikas is a wiki policy when referring to abolished municipalities, e.g. in connection with dates of birth.


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Is referred to by the name of the former municipality alone (e.g. Ahlainen) or under the current municipal name (e.g. Ahlainen, Pori) —Eskog-67 (debate) on 22 October 2017 at 03:16am (EEST) Normally just the former name of the municipality suffices.


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The name of the municipality may have changed no matter how many times, but the municipal association history is irrelevant to the personal article.


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—Ryhanen (debate) 22 October 2017 at 08:56am (EEST), for example, I saw [[Pori|Ahlainen]] about the former Ahlainen has his own article, so it can be very good to guide readers.


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—Jlöstalo (debate) 23 October 2017 at 11:27pm (EEST) This is probably the practice for similar publications containing personal data anyway.


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There is probably an article about all the former municipalities in Finland.


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And if the name of the municipality has changed, then the name of its time, e.g. Paavo Lipponen and Turtola as is in the data of external sources. —Urjanhai (debate) 23 October 2017 at 11:42pm (EEST) Completing the State Management Model Hello, What kind of tasks are to be put in those value parameters of the State Management model?


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Or rather, where they are cropped up.


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Of course, acting as president, minister, president, parliamentarian suits that, but for example, how meaningful is it to mention, say, Sauli Niinistö, the presidency of the Coalition or the PJ of the Salo City Council?


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At least in my opinion, those would be removed: because A) it is not a governmental function and B) if the local councillor, pj's etc.


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the task is allowed to add freely to the template at risk of insane bloating of the model.


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Is there any policy on this at the moment?


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—Jepse (debate) 7 October 2017 at 4:26pm (EEST) Yes, it is good to mention the presidency of the party even if it does not have a “state leadership”.


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Actually, one should abandon the use of their model altogether and use state management in articles by all politicians.


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—Urunicon 8 October 2017 at 00:45 (EEST) Agree with the politician model, it could be abandoned altogether.


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I guess there is no actual practice on this at the moment though.


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—Jepse (debate) 8 October 2017 at 1:03pm (EEST) Wouldn't that model be at least illogically named in that case?


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“State leadership” does recall specifically the Supreme Command, mainly the head of state or other effective users of power (for example, the Prime Minister in many countries, or some party leaders who exercised dictatorial power, who, however, did not have a formal head of state position), while there are large numbers of politicians even in small countries.


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If the models are to be combined, wouldn't a politician be a more appropriate name for it?


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Although monarchical states can hardly be said to be politicians, so there should probably be a separately model for them.


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It has once been, but a few years ago it was changed to a model with Model:Ruler retained as a control page.


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The clearest thing might be to restore it back to the way it was.


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Or keep both current models in place, in which case, however, the use of the State Management model should be limited to heads of state and other top powers.


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-KLS (debate) 12 October 2017 at 1:35pm (EEST) Komppaan here.


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State leadership is state management and rank-peoples let alone some local councillors have (lesser) politicians. —Eskog-67 (debate) 24 October 2017 at 8:40pm (EEST) on EN wiki this is called officeholder, or “office holder" (?


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), combined with several different models such as politician, minister, senator, etc. I am in favour of creating a model that would be based on the en-wiki model (neater than the current state management and conveniently included parameters |honorific_prefix= and |honorific_suffix=).


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—Urunicon 16 October 2017 at 6:51pm (EEST) Translation and sources Wikipedia:Mark sources on page mentions of translating text from another Wikipedia thus.


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The article in the second language version of Wikipedia might contain good source entries.


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If you can verify the accuracy of the sources, you can copy them.


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Otherwise, copying source entries should be avoided and sources must be searched through another way.


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However, if sources may not be otherwise marked, the source entries may be copied as follows, with special care (...) Other language versions are therefore allowed to copy references without checking them.


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I propose that this option be removed from practice and translation from other wikipedias be allowed only if the original source entered in another language version of wikipedia has been verified.


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J.K Nakkila (debate) 19 September 2017 at 2:31pm (EEST) Interesting question.


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I suppose the attitude towards translating content depends on your point of view: is translation on Wikipedia a normal translation work, or, because of the nature of the site, always generating new material?


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In ordinary, professional translation work, hardly exactly the sources of the original text are checked unless some single thing to be translated is unclear.


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On the other hand, such translated text is static.


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As such, the source entries in some other language wikipedia are not any more unreliable than in Finnish.


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Here, even now, perhaps, is very different content in the same category: there can be very reliable text written by a particular user, and then quite incorrect, even if added by a vandal, source entries.


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I think that the fact that you can translate content but not tell you what the original content is based on is somehow incongruous and contrary to source policy — especially if you can continue to translate what happens to be sourced content whose origins can only be guessed at.


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A better solution would be to ban translation altogether, and at the same time add unsourced text.


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Sure, that's when you need to disable the translation tools etc.


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As far as I'm concerned, you could also remove much of the worst sourced content right away.


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—Epiq (debate) 19 September 2017 at 7:24pm (EEST) Translation should only be accepted if sources are verified.


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Although I do not know why the text should be translated word-for-word in that case, but rather it would be better to write it based on the source once it has been checked.


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Practically speaking, Wikipedia articles cannot be used as a source, but still some people translate articles with no sources here, that is, write here what someone else anonymous has written somewhere else on the internet.


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Those are the ones I've removed.


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Agree as Epiq.


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—Makele-90 (debate) 19 September 2017 at 10:40pm (EEST) The source should always be the text that the author had in front of him when he wrote the Finnish text.


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If the source was another wikipedia, then another wikipedia should be marked as the source.


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At the very least, there should be a reference parameter indicating that the reference was just copied, and that the actual source was some specific wikitetext.


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Such texts could then be considered indelible and replaced by actually outsourced text if necessary.


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—Savir (debate) 19 September 2017 at 7:29pm (EEST) Translating the text of another wikipedia is not to use it as a source, as is usually understood to be using sources.


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Other wikipedias should not be used as a source for your own text, and for good reason.


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I think it naturally follows from that kind of chain of thought that you don't get to translate text from other wikipedias, period.


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—Epiq (debate) 19 September 2017 at 7:40pm (EEST) From other versions of Wikipedia, a ban on the translation of text would probably be the best solution; translating always creates bad and sourcing content.


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Basically, I have imagined that the current recommendation would be to mark unverified source references in translations with this Check Source template, but I don't think that template is even mentioned in the current guidelines. —Fotogurachan (debate) 19 September 2017 at 7:49pm (EEST) It is not worth translating or, in my opinion, it is not even possible to ban it altogether.


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Someone can do by translating much better articles than what many others do with their own words writing.


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I think that was the source checking model sometimes, it was a model that still said This article or part of it was translated from a foreign Wikipedia article, and any source entries or source entries need revision.


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You can help Wikipedia by finding suitable sources or checking sources.


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Since then, the function of the model was changed entirely to another, namely copyright notice.


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-kykaarme (debate) 22 September 2017 at 09:10 (EEST) I agree with Savir.


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Every article stored in the Finnish Wikipedia should, in principle, be viewed as a new text, even if its origin is a direct translation of something.


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If the text is translated from the English Wikipedia without checking the sources provided there, then the source is actually the English Wikipedia.


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Copying source references is, in such a case, practically counterfeiting source entries.


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It's the same as using a newspaper article as a source, but labeling as a source instead of an article the original source literature mentioned in the article that you would never have seen.


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At least in scientific writing, falsifying source entries is probably the cheapest trick you can pull off.


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In my opinion, the Finnish Wikipedia must have at least some honour and dignity, and the current practice is therefore unacceptable.


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—Risukarhi (debate) 1 October 2017 at 2:13pm (EEST) I think that the written practice should be changed to a format that 1) it would be recommended to be written primarily on the basis of direct sources to be reviewed, translation from the second language version of Wikipedia should always be only the last option; 2) if, however, it is mandatory to translate the text from another language version for some reason, then the sources indicated there should only be marked as links and literature on the topic and should only be transferred as sources when a user of the Finnish Wikipedia has them checked.


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Another option would be to hide source entries in the source code alone until they have been verified.


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I don't think there is a need to categorically ban translation, as long as we go from equating translations with unsourced content as long as sources remain unchecked.


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—Rasukarhi (debate) 1 October 2017 at 2:13pm (EEST) Do I need to use sources in Wikipedia or not?


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Personally, I have thought that text should be based on sources, but the production of unsourced text has been practically permissible all along, and apparently you can translate practically anything from Wikipedias in other languages regardless of the state of the original text.


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I still think it seems incongruous that if translation is allowed once, not marking the source of the translated text would be a better option than labelling it.


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However, it is about translating a foreign language text, not using it as a source work.


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When a text is used as a source, relevant parts of the information it contains are rewritten in their own words at your own discretion.


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Again, the information content of the translation is supposed to remain the same.


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At least outside of Wikipedia.


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Many years ago, I myself have translated a lot of texts that I consider reliable into Finnish with original sources; I am glad to learn now that the translation work I have done has been inauspicious.


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I wonder what happens to articles like this, is it worth deleting all text right away, or just deleting the source entries.


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I can look up articles like this and go through them if a decision is made.


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—Epiq (debate) 1 October 2017 at 3:53pm (EEST) Since the Finnish Wikipedia is intended to be an independent Finnish language encyclopedia rather than “English Wikipedia in Finnish” or “The best bits of other Wikipedias in Finnish”, translation in Wikipedia cannot be equated for example, translating books, where the translator does not have to take responsibility for the accuracy of the content.


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On Wikipedia, whoever pushes the “Publish” button is, in my opinion, always ultimately responsible for having checked the source references they have tagged themselves.


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Or at least that's how it should be.


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In no way do I condemn or reproach the users who have made translations because they have acted in good faith, the written instructions have encouraged such action, and the role of translations in making an encyclopedia has been difficult to perceive.


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Basically, all information on Wikipedia should be marked with a source, but I guess in practice that is some kind of end goal (perhaps achieved on the same day as all articles have comprehensive and accurate information).


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Indeed, unsourced text is tolerated if it has seemed more appropriate to leave the data waiting for the source to be added than to delete it altogether.


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You can very well see this as a contradiction between Wikipedia's official principles and reality, but it's really a different topic of discussion.


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What I think is relevant to this discussion is that unverified source entries in translation articles are actually a worse thing than leaving sources completely unmarked, because in them the information coming from an unreliable origin (another Wikipedia) is as if disguised based on verified sources.


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If even this most glaring grievance could be changed, it would be a small step for the better.


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Perhaps new editors would learn to better understand the meaning of sources, too, if the emphasis was placed on not simply copying source references from somewhere.


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—Risukarhi (debate) 1 October 2017 at 5:50pm (EEST) I myself have imagined that since Wikipedia has been made with this same title in approximately every possible language, it would basically be intended that its different language versions would be as far as possible of similar content.


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In practice, this would mean that translating articles from one language version to another would not only be allowed but even advisable.


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It's too bad if I've deduced quite wrong.


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Fortunately, at least a fair number of reference entries in translated articles are web references from which, if they still pop up, it will be easy for anyone who knows that language to check what is said there (and whether the information written in the Wikipedia article is consistent with the source or isn't it).


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(I suppose, at least in English, Swedish, and perhaps French and German, as well as online versions of book and press references, would still be allowed under the proposed new policy?


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Most other languages in Finland already know less often that it is starting to be different.)


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-KLS (debate) 16 October 2017 at 10:03am (EEST) I don't think that identical content in different language versions has ever been a goal.


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If you wanted to try to do so, then, of course, it would be worthwhile to ban writing articles in their own words and encourage users to simply make translations from bigger and more 'ready' language versions.


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Translation of articles from Wikipedias from other languages was probably an important tool in the early years of the Finnish Wikipedia to produce content quickly, but as self-written content increased and evolved, the need for translations should in principle decrease over time.


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On that latter point: If the source is verified, I guess its language shouldn't matter in principle.


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Of course, sources written in large world languages are easier to check than those written in exotic languages that few Finns know.


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—Risukarhi (debate) 17 October 2017 at 3:17pm (EEST) Hardly any encyclopedia, Wikipedia gets about absolute either.


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Good articles probably can be written in different ways.


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In addition, what topics or articles strive to be well written may vary due to either random or systematic factors.


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At the same time, however, it is this that can sometimes make translation justified if, for example, some effort has been made and good articles have been written with a template that requires a lot of work.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 17 October 2017 at 5:28pm (EEST) I would add that I support Epiq's proposal at the beginning of the debate to disable translation tools.


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I do not think it is meaningful to ban translation from foreign language Wikipedias altogether, but at least no one should encourage it now.


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—Risukarhi (debate) 1 October 2017 at 5:53pm (EEST) Users can be encouraged to write articles in their own words (with sources), but if translation is allowed, I think it can also be technically facilitated.


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I have not noticed that articles made specifically with the translation tool have particularly many problems compared to articles made by new users at all.


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Copying sources is a problem yes, that's something I agree with, and shouldn't be encouraged.


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Too many people think that it is enough once the sources have been checked, for example, in enwiki, although that's not how it goes because it's a wiki and therefore always unreliable.


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If the compiler of the article has not seen the source at all, then he cannot be asked for specifications on the matter, if there seems to be some ambiguity in the article and if the source is not readable, e.g. online.


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The WP:Mark Sources policy guideline is from another era when quantity replaced quality.


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But I do not want to make translation: translating articles can be an easier way for a new user to start editing, for a regular user it is a quicker way to produce content than writing in their own words, and I have also been quite grateful for the translation articles of my own subject, which I can choose to further develop instead of having to start them all over again.


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-kykaarme (debate) 1 October 2017 at 7:57pm (EEST) It is still in defence of the translation tool that the tool automatically adds a mention of the translation and a link to the original article in the starting summary, so that the notification does not remain up to the editor himself.


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It is useful for two reasons, namely because it should be made due to copyright and then other users can also see where the text came from.


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-kykaarme (discussion) October 2, 2017 at 6:36pm (EEST) What says about translating other language Wikis.


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I can't find the Mark Sources — Practice in English equivalent.


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In fact, I need the information presented in the article for your belief to see in the context always what the source in the article (fiwiki) says.


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If I don't understand ko.


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language, I do not believe knowledge.


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I do not support the above change.


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (debate) 21 September 2017 at 11:41am (EEST) There is no such “source entries without checking” rule, as far as I know, in en-wiki.


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However, the translation instructions there are cursory and e.g.


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and WP:TRANSLATEUS don't cite sources in any way.


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Counterfeiting source entries will affect this, so the starter's idea of removing that paragraph from practice is just fine.


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Otherwise, there should be no restriction on translations, as this would make it far too difficult to produce content here.


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jni (k) 1 October 2017 at 3:09pm (EEST) So writing unsourced text is actually ok, because otherwise it would be too difficult to produce content?


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—Epiq ([[Discussion of WP:TRANSLATE user:Epiq|Discussion]]) 1 October 2017 at 3:53pm (EEST) Please don't get it wrong on purpose.


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The source of the translation is never a Wikipedia in another language, but sources copied from there that have been checked during the translation.


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Translation of unsourced text is not directly prohibited, although it may be removed if there is any doubt about its reliability, but this is already different.


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jni (k) 1 October 2017 at 4:16pm (EEST) This is what I have asked before: have I been mistaken?


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I too have translated quite a few articles from other languages from Wikipedias, most often leaving at least most of the original reference entries in them.


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However, I have not been able to verify all book references when the books mentioned in them are not found in our libraries (unless the reference is already accompanied by an entry from the online version of the work).


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So in the articles I translated, there are references to books that I have never seen.


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Instead, web references I've usually checked, at the very least to see if the page still opens with the url marked in the reference.


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If it doesn't open anymore, I've added a template for that spot.


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But more often than not, I have also marked new book references in the article after checking it out of one of the books on my shelf or found in the library, and on similar points I have occasionally, but not always, removed the reference that was in the original article.


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Should the book reference in the initial text have always been omitted from the translation and replaced with a source request if the book is not available and there is no other source for the same information?


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-KLS (debate) 12 October 2017 at 1:47pm (EEST) According to current policy, you have not been mistaken in any way.


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In this debate, it has only been proposed to change the practice so that this should no longer work.


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—Risukarhi (debate) 14 October 2017 at 8:21pm (EEST) If the new policy is adopted, what will happen to the thousands of articles that have already been translated?


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Should they be corrected within a short time limit in accordance with the new policy, that is to say find foreign language book sources in Finnish to replace them, under the threat of otherwise deleting all sections of articles for which they have not been found, or even articles altogether?


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Or does the new policy only apply to articles that are being written or extended henceforth?


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-KLS (debate) October 16, 2017 at 10:12am (EEST) Was there a proposal to ban foreign language book sources somewhere?


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J.K. Nakkila (debate) 16 October 2017 at 10:36am (EEST) Could it be suggested that if the translated article has used a book source from which the author of the translation has not been able to verify it himself, it must be considered acceptable, provided that only the matter is clearly stated in the context of the reference mark.


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In the explanation field of the reference note, one should therefore write some standard directed phrase, for example “|legend =... source used in the linguistic initial text”.


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That this should be done, should obviously clearly say on the help page Help: Translate articles.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

Or maybe that explanation should even read like this: “|explanation=... source used in linguistic initial text.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

If you find a book, web page or journal article in Finnish that mentions the same thing, you can remove this source reference and add the source you find in its place.”


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

Or perhaps a new field should be added to the reference marking templates specifically to express this point, in which case any short entry, such as “|initial text = {{en}}”, “|initial text= {{sv}}”, or from which language the page was translated, would cause that text to appear in the reference list.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

If this is agreed, there are already many pages in my mind to which I could add this text of explanation as soon as I could.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

-KLS (debate) 16 October 2017 at 11:41am (EEST) At last, that source language and verification or verification are two different things.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

To its side, you could rather say somehow that “if you can verify the source, delete this note, or if you find another source you are able to verify, add it here and delete this note”.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

Of course, Finnish sources are good and worthwhile if the information that is equally reliable and verifiable is available in many different languages, but if it is not available, or a verified, reliable source in other languages provides some important additional information, then there is no reason to be limited to Finnish speakers alone to sources.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

Of course, in some subjects practically all sources are in Finnish, and in some subjects practically all sources are in other languages, so in any case there are plenty of topics where sources in other languages cannot be avoided. —Urjanhai (debate) 16 October 2017 at 12:30am (EEST) The minimum solution would of course be to add some sort of “unverified source” warning to the references.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

However, I think a better option would be naming the unverified sources I suggested above merely as “On the topic elsewhere” links and literature and/or hiding unverified references with tags in the source code (with an equivalent explanation) until they have been verified.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

I do not think it is necessary to delete text based on unverified sources, but it should be equated with unsourced text, which in any case we also have in the articles in abundance.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

—Rasukarhi (debate) 17 October 2017 at 3:17pm (EEST) It is worth considering that the page Help:Translation of articles is not a policy page, but a help page that has been in existence for less than a year, edited by only two users (of which I am one, and I edited it only because I wanted to correct the ambiguities associated with the translation model).


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

It is in no way a binding instruction, but merely an advisory guideline.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

I don't know how appropriate to link it directly from the policy page, in which case it might seem more official than what it is.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

-kykaarme (debate) 26 October 2017 at 10:57pm (EEST) At least it would not be very easy to monitor compliance with the proposed new policy.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

How can anyone other than the person who performed the translation themselves know if this has actually checked what the source work says, or has he merely copied the entries for it from the initial text?


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

And on the other hand, even if the translator had possession of the same work and actually checked it out from there, how can he prove he did so?


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

By personally going to the other person who has put it under suspicion and showing that passage from that book?


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

-137.163.19.9 16 October 2017 at 6:20pm (EEST) This problem is quite commonly related to Wikipedia source entries (it is basically always impossible to know if someone has actually checked the sources they have entered), not in any way specifically with translation articles.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

It is a question of what kind of activities users should be guided and encouraged.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

—Rasukarhi (debate) 17 October 2017 at 3:17pm (EEST) Interesting debate.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

It may be that my approach is too pragmatic, but I think that translating a foreign language article is an acceptable and effective way to improve the Finnish Wikipedia if the source article is of high quality and one that the source entries can be assumed to be audited.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

If, say, the intention was to start improving a rather short and widely sourced Mary Shelley article, then I can't think of any good reason why it couldn't be done by translating a favoured article in English.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

This has been done e.g.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

in the Swedish, French, Spanish, Portuguese and Serbian wikipedias and in all of them, the resulting article has been voted recommended.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

Loafgren (debate) 23 October 2017 at 15:39 (EEST) Articles with some status and how they are translated come to mind “good article” Bicholim conflict J.K. Nakkila (debate) 24 October 2017 at 02:48 (EEST)


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

VR-yhmä Oy or VR Group [1] is a Finnish government-owned logistics group engaged in passenger and freight transport on Finnish railways and roads.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

VR has a contractual monopoly on long-distance passenger transport by railways, which will continue until 2024, [2] making Finnish rail transport free to competition.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The group's emblem letters VR are derived from the word State Railways, which operated from 1862 to 1995.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Group structure The transformation of the State Railways into a joint-stock company was completed during Eino Saarinen's general manager 1988—1995.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

It had been started before him, but he pushed it forward strongly, and VR was formed in 1995 by the state-owned joint-stock company VR Group Oy.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[3] In 2009-2010, a programme of changes was implemented in the context of the reform of the group structure.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Oy Pohjolan Transport Ab, the parent company of the Pohjolan Transport Group owned by the VR Group, was first merged into VR Joint Stock Company, which operated train services, leaving Pohjolan Transport Passenger Transport to the passenger transport division and freight transport to the Logistics Division.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Subsequently, VR Limited Liability Company was merged into VR Group.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The name of Oy Pohjolan Passenger Transport AB was changed to Oy Pohjolan Transport AB.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

In addition, Megasiirto Oy was merged with Oy VR-rata AB, which supplied track keeping design, construction and maintenance services, becoming VR Track Oy.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

In logistics, the Transpoint companies and VR Cargo were merged under the VR Transpoint brand, and the Transpoint companies (with the exception of Transpoint International) were merged into the VR Group.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

At the beginning of 2011, VR Group took over as its business brand VR Group, which was previously the English-language parallel business name of the company.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[1] VR Group consists of five divisions, namely Passenger Transport (VR and Nordic Transport), Logistics (VR Transpoint), Services and Production, Track Building and Maintenance (VR Track) and Russian and International Operations.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Support functions, information technology, finance and personnel are centralized at the group level.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Divisions consist of units and legal corporations.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Passenger transport: train services are operated by VR, bus services Pohjolan Transport and catering and catering operations Avecra Oy Logistics: VR Transpoint In total, the VR Group has 28 companies and eight associates.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Traffic control services were unbundled in early 2015 to a company called Finrail, which is not part of the VR group.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[4] VR Group is defined as the operator or railway undertaking, while the Finnish Transport Agency is the infrastructure manager and is responsible for its maintenance.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The different roles of the Finnish Transport Agency and VR Group will become more pronounced as other operators may be allowed to operate on the network.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Financial years VR's performance deteriorated in 2015 compared to the previous year, [5] which is explained inter alia by the Vectron locomotive fleet transactions with German company Siemens.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[6] In 2017, VR's performance improved as passenger numbers increased by 8% due to price reductions.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Operations VR Group consists of three businesses around customer groups, namely VR, which operates passenger transport, VR Transpoint, logistics, and VR Track specialising in infrastructure construction.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

In terms of passenger transport, VR Group operates both metropolitan commuter rail and long-distance services, including international connection to St. Petersburg and Moscow.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

There is no actual commuter rail and no local trains outside the metropolitan area.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

There, built-up trains stop more densely than express and intercity trains, thus connecting smaller towns and municipalities.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Express trains, Intercity trains and Pendolinos connect the larger cities.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Most long-distance trains have a starting or destination station in Helsinki, but they also run from Turku to Tampere and Jyväskylä, for example, to Pieksämäki and vice versa.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

A direct night train service with sleeper cars is also between Turku and Oulu and Turku and Rovaniemi, but in this case the carriages are transferred from one train to another in Tampere along the way.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The safety and functionality of the railways is the responsibility of the Transport Safety Agency under the Ministry of Transport and Communications.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The construction magazine selected VR Track's Lielahti-Kokemämäki Alliance project site as Site of the Year 2012.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

This line project was the first public procurement alliance project in Europe.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[8] Juha Jalamaa and Jussi Takamaa were awarded with the H. Roos Foundation's Occupational Safety Award on 18 March 2014.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[9] Ville Saks' maintenance contract concluded in Sweden by VR Track in Sweden resulted in considerable losses for the Finnish State and was terminated before the end of the contract, and Saxony was terminated at the same time as it was announced.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

During his time on the line, VR Track received reproaches from the Transport Agency for its poor maintenance.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Due to negligence, VR Track was excluded from the tender for maintenance on the line by the Transport Agency.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[10] Dismantling the monopoly VR Group has a monopoly on passenger transport on Finnish railways.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

It will end in 2024, as VR Group's exclusive contract for passenger train services ends then.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Competitive for passenger train services in Finland will start with built-up train services in southern Finland in 2020.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The intention is to open the entire Finnish passenger train service to competition by 2026.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Dismantling the VR Group's monopoly does not require any changes in law or budgetary processing.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Provinces and cities are also wanted to involve the competitiveness of transport in order to achieve regional transport as well.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[11] Splitting VR Group VR Group will remain owned by the State even after the dissolution of its monopoly status, but will be unbundled in order to allow competition between three different state companies, namely a fleet, maintenance and real estate company.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

In practice, the real estate company includes only the train stations of VR.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

They will also have access to VR's competitors.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The fleet company will also lease VR's fleet to other operators.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Acquiring equipment could otherwise be too expensive for VR's competitors.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[11] Fleet Locomotives VR Group has three electric locomotive types in service in commercial service: Sr1, Sr2 and Sr3 and three diesel locomotive types: Dv12, Dr14 and Dr16.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Electric Locomotives Sr1 The first SR1 class locomotives were ordered in 1973 from the Soviet Novocherkassk Locomotive Factory, which produced 110 pieces of locomotives and before them a single prototype.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Sr1 is today the most numerous electric locomotive type in Finland.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

After initial difficulties, it has proven to be very reliable.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The first SR1 locomotive, 3001, arrived in Finland on 4 September 1973.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

In 1993, Hyvinkää's engineering shop assembled locomotive 3111 from extra bodywork and other spare parts.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Compared to Western electric locomotives of comparable age, the Sr1 has a lower power output.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Three SR1 locomotives are currently abandoned.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

SR1 locomotives have had a total of three colourings.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Sr2 The first Sr2 was manufactured in 1995.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

By 2003, 46 pieces of locomotives were built.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The maximum permissible speed of the SR2 is 210 km/h.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

In test runs, it has been driving at 232 mph.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

A speed of 230 km/h was marked on some locomotives, but since then this figure has been reduced to conform to existing approval.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

To date, none of the SR2 series locomotives have been abandoned.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Sr3 In December 2013, VR released a fleet deal worth over €300 million, which will see it acquire 80 new Vectron electric locomotives from German company Siemens and an option for 97 additional locomotives.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The first locomotives entered service in June 2017 and the entire batch will be delivered by 2026.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[6] The type designation of Siemens Vectron becomes Sr3.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Diesel Locomotives VR Group operates three diesel locomotive types for commercial service; these are Dv12, Dr14 and Dr16.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

A DR16 locomotive is a diesel-electric locomotive from which it is possible to supply power to passenger coaches.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Intercity carriages miniature|Intercity train control and passenger carriage at Jyväskylä railway station in 2013 In Finland, VR Group operates InterCity trains on all major routes (including Helsinki-Tampere—Oulu—Rovaniemi, Helsinki-Kuopio, Helsinki-Turku, Helsinki-Kajaani, Helsinki—Joensuu and Turku—Tampere/Pieksämäki).


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The trains have a top speed of 140—200 km/h, depending on the line, locomotive and train type.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Single decker Intercity coaches have a speed limit of 160 km/h and newer double-decker Intercity trains up to 200 km/h.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The intercity train is identified by the green-white (formerly red-white) colouring and the letter x (single deck) or d (double-decker) on the carriage litter.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The two-deck carriages are equipped with air conditioning and WLAN and are modern and modern.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Pendolino miniature|Pendolino train at Helsinki Central Station in Finland the fastest train type is the six-carriage Pendolino.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Trains can be combined up to two units.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The tilting bodywork allows the Pendolino to be driven into curves 35 percent faster than other trains.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Pendolinas serve the busiest travel times and mostly stop only at major stations.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The maximum speed of the train is 220 km/h.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The first Pendolinos were ordered in 1992 and they started operating on the waterfront line between Helsinki and Turku in 1995.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Allegro Allegro (Sm6) is a Pendolino-like train unit with few deviations.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

They are operated by Karelian Trains, which is owned by the VR Group and the Russian Railway Company.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The train unit is seven-carriage and are used for services between Helsinki and Saint Petersburg.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Blue carriages Blue carriages, or German carriages, or VR's blue-grey steel-bodied express railcars, have been the primary express railcars in VR services since the 1970s.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

They replaced long-distance brown carriages that were wood-bodied.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The oldest carriages are already quite old and have been scrapped with the completion of new single- or double-decker Intercity coaches and Pendolino trains.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Old carriages have also been positioned as built-up train cars.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The use of blue sleeping carriages has declined with the completion of the new double-decker sleeping carriages.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

The last carriages are expected to be removed from traffic by 2020.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Almost all the smooth-roofed blue carriages of the older series have been scrapped and the scrapping of the newer, pleated roof series has already begun.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Commuter rail fleet Commuter rail shifts are run on electrically powered Sm2, Sm4 or SM5 motor cars, and diesel-powered DM12 motor cars.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Until 19 June 2017, the commuter rail service also had separate green-coloured commuter railcars running on the Helsinki-Riihimäki and Helsinki-Kouvola routes.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Number of passenger transport fleet Train/number of carriages type locationPendolinosm318High-speed railunit309Intercity wagons 1Expt18Single deck 2nd class pet carriage with smoker52EX50Single deck 2nd class carriage79ED68Double deck 2nd class carriage113EDB40Double deck business and 2nd class Wagon110EDFS31Double Decker 2nd Class Conductor and Cart Sales Support Point Carrier72+2EDS12Double Decker 2nd Class Service Troll83+2EDM40Double deck sleeping wagon38EDO25Double deck steering wagon101RX12Single deck restaurant wagon53ERD26Double deck catering wagon1066ISET daytime and night express wagons78Single-deck 2nd class wagon80EI15Single deck 2nd class wagon with smoking62EIP32Single deck 2nd class wagon, seats for travelers with pets76EIPT14Single deck 2nd class carriage, cabin for travelers46EFIT24Single deck 2nd class carriage, cabin for travelers46EFIT24Single deck 2. class trolley, conductor and luggage department46EFITI14Single deck 2nd class trolley with disabled services, conductor and luggage department31+3RK11Single-deck restaurant wagon60RKT18Single deck restaurant wagon44RBKT6Single deck bar wagon56CEMT70Single-deck Sleeping Trolley 35 201Single storey conference carriage24A 401Single-deck salonwagon 14A 411Single-storey salonVaunu14A 421Single deck salon carriage (President's carriage 1992—2004) 10 seating and 6 berths 601Single deck show carriageTrains and commuter rail TrainsDM1216Diesel Engine Train63EIL49Commuter Carriag113EILF8Commuter Carriage with Conductor Cabin (Ticket Sales) 93SM1/Non Electric Motor Train191SM2/EIOC50Commuter Electric Motor Train200SM430Low-floor Commuter Train+184418430100SM5 281Low-floor commuter rail232+28 1 Of the intercity carriages, VR Group has leased 20 new two-decker coaches (15 Ed, 5 Edfs).


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

2 SM5 train units are owned by Helsinki Helsinki Junakalusto Oy (JKOY), of which VR Group owns 35%.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Other VR Group's headquarters have been located in the Helsinki Central Station building for a long time.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

VR Group moved its headquarters to the Iso Paja office house owned by the Yle Pension Company in Pasila, where VR Group is rented.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[12] The Competition and Consumer Agency decided not to examine the request for investigation by Marecap Trans Oy into international road transport by VR Transpoint, justifying the decision by the number of companies operating in the field of road transport.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[13] Marecap Trans Ltd suspected illegal cross-subvention in which VR patched up road transport losses with profits from other businesses.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

[14] See also Finnish rail transport Sources Literature Citation error, replace with {{cite book| author = Zetterberg, Seppo| title = On a common trip.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

VR 150 year| location = Helsinki| publisher = WSOY| year = 2012| id = ISBN 978-951-0-34742-3}} On topic elsewhere (passenger rail transport) (bus transport).


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

Rantapallo.fi 19.1.2012.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

(PDF, from Internet archive, saved on November 8, 2007).


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

From VR's 2017 financial statements, VR Leaks on 17 March 2018.


Question: When is VR set up?

VR Group

* Category:Key articles of screening


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

Tesvisio (originally TES-TV) was the first television channel in Finland to broadcast programmes from 1955 to 1965.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

The channel has its roots in the test broadcasts of cable television, a television club founded in 1954 by the Radio Engineer Society, in which product demonstrations were sent to different parts of Helsinki.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

The channel was commercial in nature, so advertisements and published programmes were broadcast on it.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

Tesvision range was very limited.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

Initially, its broadcasts could only be monitored in the metropolitan area, later visibility expanded to Turku and Tampere.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

Instead, MTV, founded in 1957, reached a significantly wider audience as a tenant of the Yleisradio network.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

So it was almost impossible for Tesvision to fight for advertisers with MTV.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

Historia Televisikerho made Finland's first wireless TV broadcast on 20 April 1955.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

The first public broadcast again took place on May 24.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

It was directed and plotted by Lasse Pöysti.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

The Englishman Mr. Watson hypnotized and Erkki Harjama gave a weather review.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

In addition, the first programme featured Maikki Länsö, Birgitta Ulfsson-Pöysti, Nils Brandt, as well as Kippar Quartet and Retuperä WBK.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[1] The channel initially operated under a licence from the University of Technology.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

The economic activity of broadcasting stabilized when the Foundation for the Promotion of Technology stepped in to support activities in 1956.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[2] Regular broadcasts commenced in March 1956.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

From the beginning of 1957, the channel took its name TES-TV.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

A significant portion of the channel's repertoire was commercials and a sponsored program.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

The premises of the Technical College were operated until 1959, when consideration began to be given to commercialising the canal.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[3] In November 1959, a limited liability company was established for the channel, and the channel was renamed Tesvisio at the beginning of the following year.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[4] [5] In 1963, the area of visibility expanded to Turku and Tampere.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[6] The programme aired an average of 28 hours per week, and Tamvision, which was rooted in the Tampere Local Association, began to be shown throughout the visibility area.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[7] Tesvision's program map was daily varied.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

For example, during the spring season of 1962, newscasts were broadcast on Sundays at 6:20pm, Mondays at 7:20 and 9:05 p.m., Tuesdays at 7:25 and 9:55 p.m., Wednesdays at 6:25 p.m., 7:40 and 9:15 p.m. and 9:15 p.m. and 22:25.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

Thursdays news came at 6:45 p.m., Fridays no programme was broadcast and Saturdays news came at 7:25pm and 8:55 p.m.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

On Saturdays, the live entertainment programme Good Evening, hosted by Kai Brunila, was broadcast on Saturdays from the restaurant Punavuori Engineerritalo in Helsinki.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

On Sunday afternoons Lenita Airisto pulled the program Ship is Loaded.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

Tesvision's other domestic programmes included Record Rate and Youth Dance Moment, foreign series Doctor Kildare, Wagon Train, Donna Reed's show and Lucille Ball's Lucy and Me.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[8] Tesvision began to have financial problems, so it was acquired by Yleisradio and Tamvision in 1964.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[4] However, Tesvisio still continued to operate until 6 March 1965, after which it was replaced the next day by the then Yleisradio TV programme 2.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[9] [10] In the TV programme information of Helsingin Sanomat, the channel was announced as Tesvision for the last time on Sunday 28 February 1965.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

The next day, the name TV show 2 began to be used.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

[11] Programs News Today Talk Topic of the Day Editorials Record Chart Double or Receipt True Other Half Nude City Donna Reed Fred Astaire Heikki and Kaija Miss Finland Miss Scandinavia Youth Dance Moment News for Money Tikankolo Film Eye Wagon Train Hour Star Vision Dr Kildare Saturday's warm five to six 'Evening devotional in the countryside takes place The Voice of Firestone [7] Literature Citation error, replace with {{cite book| author = Lukkarinen, Vilho and Nurmimaa, Väinö J.| title = When telly came to Finland — History of TES television| location = Helsinki| publisher = Book group| year = 1988}} Sources Citation error, replace with {{cite book| author = Keinonen, Heidi| title = Struggle for public television.


Question: When was the disc program first aired?

Tesvision

Meanings of TES-TV, Advertising TV and Tesvision in Finnish Television Culture 1956—1964| location = Tampere| publisher = Tampere University Press| year = 2011| format = [online version] | accessdate = 26.6.2011}} References Category:Finnish television channels Category:In 1956 television channels established Category:Television channels disbanded in 1965


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

The Republic of Honduras, or Honduras, is a nation of approximately 8.7 million inhabitants in Central America.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

It is bordered by Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

Honduras has a sea connection to both the Pacific Ocean and the Caribbean Sea.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

The capital of the country is Tegucigalpa.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

The Spanish name of the country República de Honduras means “Republic of the Deeplands”, which derives from the Caribbean Sea deeplands east of the country [1].


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

Military power, corruption, large income inequality, crime and natural disasters have contributed to Honduras being one of the most insecure and least developed countries in Central America.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

[2] For example, the October 1998 Hurricane Mitch killed over 7000 people and the same number disappeared, and material destruction was very significant across the country.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

[3] Geography In the north, Honduras borders the Caribbean Sea and to the south by the Gulf of Fonseca in the Pacific Ocean.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

The neighboring countries of Honduras are Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

The state has an area of 112090 square kilometers.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

[4] 80% of the state's land area is mountainous.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

The highest point of the country is Cerio las Minas at 2849 meters above sea level.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

Cerro Cangrejal is 2450 metres tall.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

There are not many active volcanoes on the territory of the country.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

In addition to the mountainous area, the country has two narrow, low-lying coastal strips.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

[5] [1] The main river is the 400 kilometre-long Ulúa, which descends into the Caribbean Sea across the valley of the Valle de Sula.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

Apart from that, there are numerous other rivers in the country, which matter not so much as a passage but because the river valleys are favourable farmland.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

Lago de Yojoa in the west of the country, along with artificial lakes, is the only lake in the country.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

The river valley bisecting the mountain range in a north-south direction is savannah rather than rainforest like the north coast.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

[6] [1] The climate in the interior of Honduras is more continental and nights are cooler than in coastal areas.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

In the coastal strip of the Caribbean Sea, it rains markedly less due to the direction of the coast than in Belize or Nicaragua.


Question: What is the area of Honduras?

Honduras

The rains are due in winter time, because then the pasate winds blow directly from the sea.