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For example, disability riding is therefore barrier-riding only at the Paralympics, but disability riding in general, as.


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—Savir (debate) 25 February 2018 at 4:14pm (EET) You are misinterpreting.


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All the species “engaged” in the Paralympics are parasports at all levels, not just the top sport.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 25 February 2018 at 5:56pm (EET) You clearly misinterpret it.


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It is a disability sport, as and without parallel forms.


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The para prefix is used only in conjunction with Paralympic competitions.


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—Savir (debate) 25 February 2018 at 18:06pm (EET) That's what it means, specifically in relation to the Paralympics: Parachsports... “It is basically synonymous with peak disability sports for a word used only when talking about Paralympics or Paralympic sports.”


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Parasports is not synonymous with the disability sports word.


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And there's no need for embellishment in the word disability.


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It describes the issue well in the Finnish language, much better than the old invalid (i.e. invalid?).


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The language of teenagers is theirs and does not need to start using pretentious and foreign-language euphemisms.


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—Huhdanjo (debate) 25 February 2018 at 4:46pm (EET) I am not criticizing the word disability, but parallel terms are quite common and perfectly acceptable on Wikipedia.


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—PE-GA-SOS (debate) 25 February 2018 at 5:05pm (EET) For example, the article Pararriding should therefore be moved back to the name Disability Riding and the content corrected to comply with it.


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—Savir (debate) 25 February 2018 at 16:18pm (EET) Disability riding is a parage-riding event other than a competition.


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In English, disability sports front is ängetty Paralympic adjective or abbreviation IPC.


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—Pe-ga-sos (discussion) 25 February 2018 at 16:23 (EET) This is the English wikipedia.


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I moved the page back to the name that all sources about the species use.


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According to the Disability Sports Federation, paragsport is only the top disability sport at the Paralympics.


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—Savir (debate) 25 February 2018 at 16:27pm (EET) English terms are slowly moving here to Pohjola and are translating fluently into Finnish.


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You were now talking about that move yourself, even if there was still enough to discuss.


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The terms are completely equivalent.


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—PE-GA-SOS (debate) 25 February 2018 at 4:33pm (EET) There was at least one control left in this hand that should not be removed, so I did not edit in vain.


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The story is about a para rider who took part in the sport's European Championship.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 25 February 2018 at 4:40pm (EET) I boldly edit.


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Wikipedia won't break.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 25 February 2018 at 2:55pm (EET) Nice to ask though.


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—Otrfan (debate) 25 February 2018 at 3:58pm (EET) Pegasos reported that the language links in one article are wrong too.


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If there is a need to discuss the issue, then this is probably the kind of coffee room where the conversation is appropriate.


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—Pxos (debate) 25 February 2018 at 18:44 (EET) The proceedings are indeed incomplete and Savir is troubling with his edits.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 25 February 2018 at 6:48pm (EET) The sport is disabled riding, believe already.


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That designation is used as.


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Parka riding is only talked about in the context of top sports, but the article is not just about it.


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—Savir (debate) 25 February 2018 at 6:56pm (EET) Pararriding is a co-designation for disabled riding and can be used for other Games than the Paralympics.


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I linked to this discussion a piece about a barrier-rider who took part in the sport's European Championship.


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Pararriding is entirely parallel and the designation comes from being subordinate to the International Paralympic Committee.


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Wikipedia doesn't predict, but I predict that the disability prefix will disappear over time.


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Or what would sound like Disability Judo.


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Really stupid in my opinion.


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Judo is judo, even if the sport enthusiast is handicapped.


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You can conveniently put a prefix para on that, too, so everyone knows what it's all about.


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I twisted the wireframe and that's all I can do.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 25 February 2018 at 19:08 (EET) The proceedings are ongoing and Savir amended the Disability Sport article.


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Now leave in the hat before you mess up any more.


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At least Zache went to fix the language links, like he needs to.


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Stop!


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—PE-GA-SOS (debate) February 25, 2018 at 7:23pm (EET) Nominations used in Wikipedia articles are based on relevant expert sources and general practices, not your desires or predictions.


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Please stop bothering.


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—Savir (discussion) 25 February 2018 at 19:43 (EET) You have now grasped this prediction quite pointless.


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Stop bothering, please —PE-ga-sos (discussion) 25 February 2018 at 7:53pm (EET) Removed from the Administrators message board: It is really a nuisance to talk about different species with a disability prefix.


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Wikipedia doesn't censor, but someone from it nonetheless goes down.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 25 February 2018 at 8:38pm (EET) There is no need to make a solution for fear of sucking up.


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In fact, the Disability Sports Federation recommends using the name of the sport with a disability prefix for its own sport, which is quite in line with the union's own name.


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If the sport already indicates that it is a disability sport, the prefix is no longer needed (e.g. goalball, or if there is already a wheelchair in the name of the sport).


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The para prefix is used not only in the context of Paralympic athletes but also when talking about Paralympics when you want to say that it is a Paralympic sport.


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The mentioned disability riding is a term in use, but sometimes we want to talk about barrier-riding when it comes to goal-oriented competitive sport (for example, rehabilitation) in a sport in the Paralympic programme.


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The para prefix also makes a distinction e.g. Special Olympics, which is the activities of a different organization.


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The aforementioned judo uses the concepts special judo and applied judo.


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It is not just disability sport, but for one reason or another, individuals who need special support at all.


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Application also applies to the rules so that when dealing with visually impaired persons (one matchmaker may be sighted) it is essential that in the starting position both have a grip on the other.


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Only visually impaired people participate in the Paralympics, so the phenomenon described with a para prefix would be a more limited phenomenon than, for example, applied judo.Matthäus Gezegeberg (debate) 25 February 2018 at 10:19pm (EET) Goebbels or Goebbels?


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Which is the right way to write?


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) 28 February 2018 at 4:16pm (EET) The Language Office offers the following instruction:.


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—Pxos (debate) 28 February 2018 at 5:08pm (EET) Goebbels.


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—Wähäwiisas (debate) 28 February 2018 at 5:19pm (EET) Oe is actually ö. In German-speaking countries, monastically more foreign letters are written converting (ö -> oe, ä -> ae, ü -> ue, ß -> ss).


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Originally, in the age of the English Internet, the variant would have to be understood, but it is a much older phenomenon as seen from Goebbels and Goethe.


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In Germany or Switzerland, place names do not appear (at all) to start with an äs or a ö, even though the letters are otherwise in use.


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In Swiss Germany, no ß is used at all, but always ss.


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Why, someone with better knowledge of the German language could clarify for the underserved.


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—Huhdanjo (debate) 28 February 2018 at 6:34pm (EET) No letter ö is shorthand and its longer form is oe.


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Those two points above the circle are remnants of the e sign that moved above.


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Names often retain their spelling unchanged, even though the letters do change.


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So the change is in a different direction than thought above.


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One place name starting with Ö immediately comes to mind: Österreich.


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—Pxos (debate) 28 February 2018 at 7:25pm (EET) After all, it is the beginning of the day and evening (e.g.


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Ägerisee, Östrichli, Östrahn), but clearly more are found in the ae and oe beginnings.


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Understandable based on that explanation of Pxos; however, place names are often ancient.


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—Huhdanjo (debate) 28 February 2018 at 7:49pm (EET) In Switzerland (and Liechtenstein), the transfer of the ß from fracture to antique never really took fire; the letter gradually fell out of use over the course of the 20th century.


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A more detailed story for those who know German: de:ß #In der Schweiz und in Liechtenstein.


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—Silvonen (debate) 1 March 2018 at 07:40 (EET) There is still no policy debate here on the use or non-use of ß in the Finnish text?


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The issue has been bothering me for years, but I haven't bothered to ask myself.


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—Rasukarhi (debate) 13 March 2018 at 3:33pm (EET) Hyphen or not?


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Which one is right and why?


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Embassy of Finland in Moscow The Embassy of Finland in Moscow Soome is very difficult... Palosirkka (debate) 19 March 2018 at 11:06am (EET) The Embassy of Finland in Moscow is correct.


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The hyphen is used for clarity.


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See


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e.g. —Savir (debate) 19 March 2018 at 11:36am (EET) Delicatessen?


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I know they sell something to eat there.


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The English Wikipedia knows to tell you it's a fine foods term.


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In my paper encyclopedia it has been translated as a dissection shop and dictionary.org appoints delicatessen ia delicatessen</i>as a delicatessen.


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The shorter form is probably a deli.


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I'm confused.


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What does this actually mean?


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 10 March 2018 at 3:17 p.m. (EET) As a side note, the film Delicatessen — the night of the delicators in the shop sold human flesh.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 10 March 2018 at 3:22pm (EET) The word, I understand, means both those wonderful delights and that movement.


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The shorter form of deli can be used e.g.


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of all the restaurants in the world, the level of which varies.


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The movie was totally hilarious if the black humor sinks in.


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Palosirkka (debate) 19 March 2018 at 12:47pm (EET) in Fagervik?


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Why in Viikki but Justice and Love in Fagervik?


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That one is pronounced the same way as Viik.


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I mean I should be at the end?


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jr888 (debate) 31 March 2018 at 1:31pm (EEST) Foreign names are not perceived as connecting words in terms of the determination of the vowel chord, i.e. the whole body affects the ending, not just the afterpart.


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The word Fagervik inflects as a back vowel because it has a.


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Similarly inflected in Reykjavik, because in it y is pronounced as i and the word additionally contains a.


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On the other hand, inflected in Örnsköldsvik — and not only in Viki, but also in Viki (municipality of Norway) because these words have only front vowels.


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—Lemonking (debate) April 10, 2018 at 6:56pm (EEST) Foreign names may or may not be defined as connecting words, and this affects the determination of vowel chord.


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If Fagervik figures as a clump, one retrieves the last vowel of the word (the “neutrals” e and i are ignored, although linguistically they are front vowels) and find the back vowel a, hence in Fagervik.


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But if Fagervik appears as a connecting word, the search is limited to the remainder of the vik, where no back vowel is found, thus bending from Fagervik.


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You can see both.


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There is probably no solid rule to whether a foreign word is defined as a connecting word in Finnish, and the Language Office exemplifies this way: Budapest [buda + pest]: Budapest (~ in Budapest, if the name is defined as unconnected).


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In other words, kom sii, kom gets.


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—Jmk (debate) 11 April 2018 at 02:17am (EEST) Appointment of the First Minister of Scotland, Wales and others the IP modifier repeatedly revisits the First Minister of Wales as First Minister.


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However, wikipedia has its own article on the First Minister of Northern Ireland (=title used for Northern Ireland's government leader since 1999).


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In the Wales article again: The government is headed by the Prime Minister and references an English source (hence the translation uncertain).


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The first minister, on the other hand, is bad Finnish.


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Is this aligned in terms of language maintenance?


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—Kospo75 (debate) 14 April 2018 at 3:23pm (EEST) The term Prime Minister is probably more commonly used in the media, but the first minister has occasionally been talked about.


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Neither is probably unequivocally wrong, but I suppose the prime minister is a clearer title.


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—PTG (debate) 14 April 2018 at 7:16pm (EEST) Do you think this will ever occur in the media in any form?


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The idea is probably that the Prime Minister typically refers to heads of independent states, which Wales, on the other hand, is not.


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On the other hand, the English equivalent is not the prime minister usually, but the first minister, so it would be logical that the Finnish term would be different.


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In particular, I think it would be good for the translation to be in line with Northern Ireland.


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I think direct translation is ok if there is no otherwise established Finnish term.


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I guess this is a title so rarely found in Finnish text that you have to make your own solutions.


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—Louhkärmes (debate) 15 April 2018 at 11:59am (EEST) Nicola Sturgeon is almost invariably referred to as First Minister of Scotland (sometimes with some specification, such as the First Minister of the Scottish Regional Government).


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There is less frequent talk of Northern Ireland's First Minister, but the logic should be the same as for Scotland too.


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—PTG (debate) 16 April 2018 at 09:14am (EEST) I guess the logic of the local population can also be used as logic.


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For example, in the en-wiki article First Minister and Deputy First Minister it is clear that the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland are equal and jointly run things.


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If one person is named Prime Minister in Finnish and the other is not even mentioned, the information will be distorted.


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—Pxos (debate) 16 April 2018 at 5:02pm (EEST) Alphabet (De without space or with?)


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Has Wikipedia here over the years decided how to alphabetize prefixed last names?


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An acute problem, to which I primarily miss an answer, is the alphabetization of Italian surnames starting DE and with spaces (cts.


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Category:Italian film directors, where I recently unified two different ways, and the commentary caused by it).


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So is space taken into account in the alphabet or not?


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Do we alphabetize e.g. De Santis with the key De Santis or Desantis?


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In the archives of this coffee room we found some discussions and links to the world outside Wikipedia, but I could not find a direct answer to my question, and even less I found in the instructions.


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—Lax (debate) 13 March 2018 at 1:44pm (EET) Surnames must, at least according to the standard interpretation of Korpela, so spaces should not be deleted when alphabetting.


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Thus, “De Santis” predates the name “Del...” et al. —Savir (debate) 13 March 2018 at 14.03 (EET) It must also be noted that the prefix is not always and in all languages read as part of the surname.


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You can find on that Korpela page a couple of sections down under the heading Additional Exceptions.


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For example, in Spanish Vicente del Bosque → Bosque, Vicente del.


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—Coma (debate) 13 March 2018 at 5:01pm (EET) I really think that may depend on language as well.


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(See


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digging from the it-wiki below.)


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—Urjanhai (debate) 13 March 2018 at 5:33pm (EET) That's what it depends, and the instructions may not be entirely unambiguous.


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But luckily, the Language Office has put together some basic rules. —PTG (debate) 13 March 2018 at 7:39pm (EET) It is probably worth going according to the recommendations of the Language Office, i.e. (the letter is accepted and especially used in dictionaries, but it is recommended).


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—PTG (debate) 13 March 2018 at 2:11pm (EET) Yep.


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E.g. In Fennica, De Zunzunegui comes before Deacon, and this is certainly the simplest anyway.


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Still when you remember next time.


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—Peplumfani (discussion) 13 March 2018 at 4:04pm (EET) I looked at it wiki where there were half a dozen film directors from De Something alone.


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Apparently, the alphabetic was not done with the defaultsort model, but somehow by a person model showing the name of the filled in as De Santis and in the alphabetized class view the surnames starting DE were displayed for D).


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Although this now does not yet prove that the correct alphabet of the Italian language is this, but may refer to it.


Question: What was Aarne Orjatsalo's first directorial?

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Although if the English publication alphabetizes Finnish names, Öörnilä comes before Orrela, whereas in Swedish it probably comes as in Finnish.


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But would now at least sometimes ko.


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from the way the language is alphabetized to a guideline? —Urjanhai (debate) March 13, 2018 at 5:32pm (EET) There on it wiki at least after De Stefani Decaro and then Del Balzo. —Urjanhai (debate) 13 March 2018 at 5:36pm (EET) You cannot take account of the practices of the source language within a single text other than to a limited extent, because they are often contradictory.


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For example, Danish and Norwegian alphabetize sounds differently from Finnish and Swedish.


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In Scandinavian names, among other things, it is good to remember the difference between instruments and two-part surnames: in Swedish the alphabet is Lisa Andersson for Jonsson J and Lisa Andersson-Jonsson for A.


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—Gronroos (debate) 14 March 2018 at 08:47 (EET) Therefore, it would be most prudent to adhere to Finnish language practices with great preference and to alphabetize those Danish sounds in Finnish places as well.


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To the original question, my view of taste would be that the lyrical alphabet is clearer to me.


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And then another comment on those prefixes: gets too confusing if you follow that instruction linked above by PTG slavishly.


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After all, both the alphabetist and the user of the alphabetic list should always know whether, for example, a name starting with Italian or Spanish origin or what.


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A pretty clear principle would be to always alphabetize by the first capital letter of the last name.


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Sure, even that really requires knowing which parts of a long name are the last name, but that's another story.


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I mean, the fourth.


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—Makevonlake (debate) 14 March 2018 at 10:35pm (EET) The MediaWiki software's own alphabetic should, by the way, comply with the SFS-EN 13710 standard for letter markers, that is to say it equates the æs to the j, øn to ö, etc.


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Many still replace letters from old memory with more Finnish alphabetic keys (Müller → Myller or sometimes mistakenly Muller), but this has not been necessary for another five years.


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—Silvonen (debate) 15 March 2018 at 06:27 (EET) Actually, this was not the case, but that if you want to alphabetize, say, Danes according to Danish practice and Finns with Finnish, you get into trouble.


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Nor does it solve how to alphabetize the name of a Finnish person of German origin, for example, the correct order of the names Matti Müller, Andreas Mühlenberg, Liisa Muuronen: Mühlenberg-Müller-Muuronen as in German, Muuronen-Mühlenberg-Müller as in Finnish or Mühlenberg-Muuronen-Müller because Müller as a Finnish name is alphabetized as Myller.


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—Gronroos (debate) 15 March 2018 at 08:27 (EET) When the shelf happened to have someone's edition, I looked at how Richard Müller was alphabetized, and it was after Mykkänen according to Y.


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This corresponds to the example I gave above in the alphabetized lists of publications using Orrela /Öörni suomen emn, Swedish or English.


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But then it is hardly essential the name-bearer's homeland or nationality, but rather ao.


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the language of publication.


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Probably the equivalent could be IJsselmeer and some combination of letters in the Hungarian language, whether it was now sc or cs.


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But are these ultimately the same or different from these de/von/Mac/O'?


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In these latter, I suppose, we advise you to use the practice of each language.


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Of course, there are also always cases where there is no knowledge of what language the name is (and then there are emigrants and immigrants of different countries), but still I suppose the instructions spring from the practices of different languages. —Urjanhai (debate) 15 March 2018 at 09:12 (EET) Considering language practices is a good basic starting point, just as much as the application of the Finnish alphabetic standard in the Finnish text.


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But then if you go on a hypercorrect line and take into account the conventions of all the different source languages at the same time, you can run into a caseike.


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It also has to be considered how widely the alphabet must be able to know the practices of non-neighbouring languages in the name of general education.


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—Gronroos (debate) 15 March 2018 at 11:45am (EET) on prefixes of surnames. —Htm (debate) 13 March 2018 at 9:21pm (EET) There are differences in prefixes, probably more than a good language clock claims in itself.


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—Feathers (debate) 22 April 2018 at 01:18am (EEST) Written language is actually a pretty new thing.


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—Feathers (debate) 22 April 2018 at 01:19am (EEST) Debut album or firstborn album?


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I've pretty much lately been writing music-related articles and this question came to my mind.


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I myself, out of my own habit, have used the format “debut album”.


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-Roopeank (discussion) 16 March 2018 at 1:29pm (EET) Some version in Finnish always sounds better, that is, no matter how much the first album, debut album or first album.


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—Tpe1 (debate) 17 March 2018 at 1:30pm (EET) And yes, I suppose the debut is in modern Finnish.


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Careful with a bit of TPE, but that's because of my old age more than my old age.


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—Feathers (debate) 22 April 2018 at 01:21am (EEST) A class of pukkaka for referenced scientists, but what is the name?


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I think articles on top contributors from Finns and other countries (and their development needs) would be more easily found if we had a category for the most referenced data makers in the world.


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The job title now is: Category:Most referenced researchers according to Clarivate Analytics.


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The Clarivate Analytics analytics company compiles the Highly Cited Researchers list each year.


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This list of many 3000 top scientists is, for example, a source material for some university penalties.


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There were less than 20 names on the 2017 list from Finland, but even now they do not rise up when the rating is exhausted.


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In Enkkuwiki there is such a class in existence, but it is used because of the obsolete designation of the class less than would be subject.


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In Enkkuwiki, the class is called.


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To this category I thought our new new class on Wikidata would link to.


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The description of the category could be: This category includes science factors that the Clarivate Analytics company or any entity that has compiled a list in the past (Institute for Scientific Information (ISI), Thomson ISI or Thomson Reuters) has included in its annual compilation of the world's most referenced researchers (Highly Cited Researchers) on their list.


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A new class of top scientists could be categorized into at least these categories: [[Category:Science and Engineering Awards]] [[Category:Scientists]] How does it seem?


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Would it be more back and necessary to start a class name, for example, The World's Most Referenced...?


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Or do we go to the fulfillment as presented?


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I would also see compiling an article about this list of most referenced researchers as useful.


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—Willow (debate) April 21, 2018 at 6:24pm (EEST) I set out that articles - like JoAnn E. Manson, apparently the most referenced woman in the world - can get ahead.


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If you find consensus on a better name, it's easy to change that class name. —Willow (debate) 22 April 2018 at 00:11am (EEST) When no one speaks anything, then I can't really resist.


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However, I do not understand the excellence of Clarivate Analytics.


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There would have to be some sort of solution to this.


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—Feathers (debate) 22 April 2018 at 00:32 (EEST) Probably a valid name, too, is what went.


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Clarivate Analytics now but is one of the best known classifiers of scientific (kin) articles (including other R&D in mind strategic discoveries such as patents and inventions), the current owner of Web of Science.


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The previous owner was Thomsom Reuters or Thomson Corporation (read: Canadian billionaire En}} is only for use in File namespace.


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Use {{lang-en}} or {{en icon}} instead.)


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Other key classifiers include Google Scholar and Microsoft's largely equivalent classification project, which gained its prominence in the 2010s.


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Need to put in motion his own article on that annual list of most referenced scholars ().


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In it, the criteria for entry, the list's owner history and competing projects could be described.


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Listing/rankings are interpreted as “lazily done” by some law, as it emphasizes mammoth joint articles factoring researchers/groups of researchers, and does not print articles by 30 scholars, for example, by only 1/30 for each, unless another paper division is described.


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In this case, many areas of medicine and natural sciences, research groups (á la Markku Kulmala) and, in particular, scientific leaders of large research projects and authors of recommendations for American/European medical practices (in style JoAnn E. Manson) are overemphasized.


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English-language publishing is also emphasized; in all disciplines English is not as widely used, and internationally in this case English-speaking countries and/or Western countries become overemphasized.


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This is why gurus of different research orientations/fields do not appear on the list.


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A deeper peek at Web of Science requires a paid subscription, which an individual wikipedist doesn't have a chance or/and would easily go to the side of new research already contrary to wikipedia's policies (would be fascinating nonetheless).


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—Willow (debate) 22 April 2018 at 2:41pm (EEST) Language maintenance The names of two digimons are misspelled in the list of digimons.


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The letter o has been omitted from the names because otherwise wikipedia would interpret the names as sub-style parlance.


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The names are misspelled Ponchmon and Seahmon though the proper names are digimon.wikia.com/wiki/Ponchomon and Digimon.wikia.com/wiki/Seahomon.


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Can someone please correct this and add the letter o to the name of the digimons in question and the points where the name occurs? —188.238.163.179 23 April 2018 at 7:11pm (EEST) Technical inflection of the names of the months on Wikipedia I notice from time to time that the dates produced by the system are always revisited as “26.april 2018" because April is finned with the string “April” and because Anglo-scissors- the system is incapable of understanding persuasive languages at all.


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The technical solution is that somehow a partitive would be added to the system that would produce a substitute terminal “-ta” for dates.


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There was a parallel idea.


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When, for months, apparently nowhere is used bareback, and indeed the word “April” alone does not appear on its own, I wonder if there would be any obstacle to the months' names being translated directly into a partitive format in a translate wiki?


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I mean April = April.


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Here's how to get dates decent in one time.


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—Pxos (debate) 26 April 2018 at 2:14pm (EEST) I think they are in use somewhere, better translate correctly on translatewiki.


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If you find an error in the bends, then it is worth indicating in the Phabricator, then let's know how to correct.


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Stryn (debate) 26 April 2018 at 6:04pm (EEST) Local government in Northern Ireland is 11 regions.


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Or are they local government areas?


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Regions of government?


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Circles?


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Counties?


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Also, should they be translated or not?


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E.g. Lisburn and Castlereagh → Lisburn and Castlereagh or Mid and East Antrim → Central and East Antrim.


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—Vnnen (debate) 30 April 2018 at 11:00am (EEST) Governing area is a neutral expression, which I think qualifies as “for lack of better”.


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I did find an example in EU law that talks about British counties, districts and local government areas.


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Would this help?


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—Huhdanjo (debate) April 30, 2018 at 12:34pm (EEST) Should abbreviations be opened in Wikipedia?


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So what I've been wondering is, should Wikipedia always have all abbreviations open and written whole?


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For example: mm.


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-> among other things, e.g. -> for example, etc. -> and so on?


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What about dates like May 23, 2018 -> May 23, 2018?


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There will always be times against these cases.


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—NIKKEF (debate) 23 May 2018 at 4:49pm (EEST) I suppose it is customary to always write dates open, at least elsewhere than in the information box.


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The “and so on” text is, hopefully, little used, is not properly encyclopedic.


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“Among other things” it is good to write open the first time it is mentioned in the article, later it will suffice “mm”.


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As I recall, there was some instruction somewhere.


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Stryn (debate) 23 May 2018 at 5:03pm (EEST) Guidance on abbreviations: “Avoid using abbreviations.


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From the author, abbreviations may suddenly seem convenient, but they often burden the reader unnecessarily and break the rhythm of reading.


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— Highly established abbreviations such as, e.g., 'e.g.', i.e.


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'in other words, 'etc.' and so on' and e.g.


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'others', can be used thoughtfully, but the most elegant thing is to limit their use to mostly loose interjections (e.g. inside parentheses they do not nudge as badly as in running text).”


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Guidance on dates: “The full date is marked as a combination of anniversary and year: December 25, 2003.


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This method of notation is inappropriate when there are several dates in the text in a row or when dates are included in orienteering fields especially in the margin of the page.


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In this case, it is best to use a short entry on December 25, 2003.”


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—Atraie (debate) 23 May 2018 at 5:04pm (EEST) I will answer even if someone has reached it just before: Help:Grammar and Help:Marking practices advise.


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As a rule, therefore, no abbreviations and dates in longer versions at least as individual when appearing in the bread text.


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It's not that big of a deal that you should work to repair them, but when you add new content, it's a good thing to remember and, possibly, when you make other corrections, you can fix them too.


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—Lax (debate) 23 May 2018 at 5:05pm (EEST) But there are some abbreviations used, for example, at the beginning of the article.


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At least o.s. (no: os. which is the address) and s. and k. —and1L&CAA (discussion) May 23, 2018 at 5:19pm (EEST) Thank you for the replies.


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Indeed, if somewhere in the article I have come against, for example, the abbreviation “mm.


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“, then I have corrected it to the word “among other things” and in dates too, for example, May 23, 2018 -> May 23, 2018.


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You should probably always fix them like that if you see them?


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—NIKKEF (debate) 23 May 2018 at 5:24pm (EEST) I think it is generally worth correcting in the bread text.


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In catalogs and templates and other similar concise formats, it is quite useful to sometimes use abbreviations to make the text fit better.


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But there are not exactly such constraints in breadcrumbs.


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—PTG (discussion) 23 May 2018 at 23:06pm (EEST) Naming the ceiling category of “Films set in the XXXX century” categories according to the title, e.g.


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Category:Films set in the 1950s would need some rooftop category.


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I won't start creating it myself, because I'm not entirely sure what would be the most appropriate name for something like that.


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Any suggestions?


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—Prospero One (debate) 27 May 2018 at 7:48pm (EEST) My suggestion would be not to do such classes, I think it is pointless overclassification.


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Many of the stories of the films are set in many different eras, for example Space Adventure 2001 millions of years ago in prehistory, around 2001 (1968 in the near future) and the distant future.


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Many films are set in a particular era in a fictional sense (say, Bugsy Malone or The Flintstones and the Flintstones), others in a realistic sense (Schindler's List).


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Aki Kaurismäki's films are set for scenography and music in a vague post-war past, for stories again in modern times.


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The film's epoch is a very multi-barrelled thing and escapes categorization.


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Kotivalo (debate) 31 May 2018 at 10:13pm (EEST) Agree.


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Often the timing goes guess and wrong.


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—ABC10 (debate) 1 June 2018 at 11:04am (EEST) I actually agree.


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I had time to create one of those classes myself, Class:Movies set in the 1860s and that phenomenon you mentioned is already manifested.


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Perhaps war films could be an exception, that is, there would be a category Category:Films about the American Civil War (belonging to e.g.


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category Category:American Civil War) where that Good, Bad and Ugly would be placed, around for example.


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—Prospero One (debate) 1 June 2018 at 11:12am (EEST) Here comes the fact that the characteristics of eras do not necessarily go or change from decade to decade.


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Sometimes some drama film may be tied to some time-accurately defined event, but sometimes the plot can cover long periods of time, and sometimes time can be difficult to determine the tenth anniversary of the year numbers even in a realistic drama. —Urjanhai (debate) 1 June 2018 at 12:10pm (EEST) on EN Wikipedia is not worth taking a model in terms of classification, among other things.


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In the aforementioned space adventure, en:2001: A Space Odyssey (film) is suddenly falling closer to 50 classes!


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Kotivalo (debate) 1 June 2018 at 2:37pm (EEST) The people seem to be in favour of class removal.


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It requires the elimination of all similar categories.


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I wonder if without voting and should this be linked to the Current Affairs page.


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—Feathers (debate) 1 June 2018 at 3:20pm (EEST) It would seem.


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I wonder if there are even a lot of these to delete...


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—Prospero One (debate) June 1, 2018 at 3:23pm (EEST) to the 1930s is, instead for others in the decades of the 20th century or the 21st century does not appear to be.


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—Feathers (debate) 1 June 2018 at 3:40pm (EEST) Removing but without votes, when these have only been created in 3 categories and all recently.


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It would be different if there were more classes and had been for years.


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Stryn (discussion) 1 June 2018 at 15:46 (EEST) I reported this discussion on the discussion page of NIKKEF, a user who created two categories and knows.


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In my opinion, although this is not the best place for this debate, perhaps it is not worth moving this elsewhere so as not to break up the whole bubble again.


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—Feathers (debate) 1 June 2018 at 9:21pm (EEST) Link camouflage Hello!


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I stumbled upon and went to take it apart.


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In the case of bass guitar, it is not necessary to make such abbreviations in the text; the link can be left in the form of a bass guitar and no [[bass guitar|bass]] camouflage.— 2001:14 BB: 72:60 B9:E 656:4784:E 155:2 F44 1 June 2018 at 9:00pm (EEST) The bass is shorter and certainly more common form, So why couldn't it be like that?


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Stryn (debate) 1 June 2018 at 9:03pm (EEST) Bass is usually the bottom instrument for music.


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In practice, bass guitar, double bass, tuba, bass clarinet, barotone saxophone, cello, bassoon can all be basses.


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By the same logic, you could have [[double bass|bass]] linking.


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I don't think there's any point in this overlinking.


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Bass is primarily a vocal field besides .— 2001:14 BB: 72:60 B9:E 656:4784:E 155:2 F44 1 June 2018 at 9:08pm (EEST) I think the question is finally whether the abbreviation “bass”, which is commonly found in the context of rock music, etc. encyclopedic text of high quality.


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When I am neither a connoisseur nor an enthusiast, I leave this to those who know the music circle better. —Urjanhai (debate) 2 June 2018 at 09:46 (EEST) In the back years there was talk of electric bass. —Htm (debate) 2 June 2018 at 10:05am (EEST) I repeat myself from some other conversation while you are repeating.


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Electric bass can (theoretically) also mean a rare electrified upright bass, so bass guitar is a more accurate term.


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But when you're in the context of rock music, the bass word I think most often suffices as long as it's linked to the word bass guitar and not the word bass.


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Kotivalo (debate) 2 June 2018 at 10:12am (EEST) And on the other hand can also be an acoustic bass guitar.


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I agree I like Home Light, that bass word as the normal meaning of rock etc.


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context can be considered bass guitar, so “bass” suffices.


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On the other hand, if it says “bass guitar” somewhere, then I guess it doesn't hurt in itself.


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Then, in the case of an ensemble that uses a range of instruments different from the average rock lineup, then specify in such a context.


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You really have to be careful not to have that error link mentioned by Kotivalo.


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Another question about me then is, is there in general a reason in every band and album article to link to those “normal” instrument names.


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The reader of the metal album article now probably knows anyway what is a guitar, for example.


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Then again, if you go outside the genre norm instrument, linking is justified.


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—Makevonlake (debate) 2 June 2018 at 10:32am (EEST) The problem is that no articles are written (=should not be written) for people who do not know anything but are looking for information.


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Therefore, all kinds of specialty terms and abbreviations should be avoided, when they can cause confusion.


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—ABC10 (debate) June 2, 2018 at 10:36am (EEST) ringala, pidoli, tilmiö The name of the article Internet phenomenon was moved to Internet phenomenon.


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Interpretations of Kotus's instruction were presented on the discussion page of the article.


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Which interpretation is considered correct? —Urjanhai (debate) 2 June 2018 at 09:33 (EEST) Follow-up discussion moved to Discussion:Internettilmiö #Siirto?. —Urjanhai (debate) June 2, 2018 at 3:18pm (EEST) Grand Mosque or Grand Mosque I made a couple of “Great Mosques”, Djenné and Niono, but then I remembered that Helsinki was working on a “Grand Mosque” (“Helsinki Grand Mosque” 2560 Google hits, “Great Mosque of Helsinki” one) .


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Which is better or does it matter?


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 16 May 2018 at 2:25pm (EEST) The Grand Mosque felt immediately more familiar in the ear, not just because of Helsinki, and a search engine search produced a similar result.


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I used to search for different bending forms in Helsinki, and yet the Grand Mosque was superior.


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—Tpe1 (debate) on 18 May 2018 at 11:29am (EEST) p.s.


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Helsinki also had the Cathedral's former name Suurkirkko rather than the Great Church, so perhaps the word has more traditions, whether church or mosque.


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With Syngogue, though, you can't find a connecting word other than a few random comments in mosque contexts.


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—Tpe1 (debate) May 18, 2018 at 11:32am (EEST) I would support the use of the Grand Mosque, an established word.


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For example, the very mosque of Djenne is named the Grand Mosque by Science magazine.


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—Ukas (discussion) 26 May 2018 at 2:37pm (EEST) Thank you for your comments.


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I'm going to change the names to Grand Mosques.


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—Esamatti1 (discussion) 3 June 2018 at 8:02 p.m. (EEST) Writing tips Fire against this kind, which has presented a few problem points that wikipedia also constantly runs into.


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If there is a desire to develop their articles as linguistically good, you should read.


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—Teakoo (debate) 5 June 2018 at 6:49pm (EEST) to corrode or corrode.. i.e. cause corrosion.


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My tongue ear would speak for the latter, instant googling is fag-wolf on its side.


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What does the jury say?


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—Feathers (debate) 5 June 2018 at 8:02pm (EEST) There is no verb in the Language Office dictionary, but the office would probably know how to answer if you can call it.


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The net actually gives conflicting answers: and.


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—Teakoo (debate) 5 June 2018 at 8:14pm (EEST) It came to mind that cookout may not produce the best possible answer, because people now write what hurts.


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—Teakoo (debate) 5 June 2018 at 8:16pm (EEST) In what way is Serge Gainsbourg's surname spelled in this case?


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Is it Gainsbourg's or Gainsbourg's?


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) 14 June 2018 at 11:57am (EEST) The name ends with a consonant even when pronunciated, so it bends Gainsbourg.


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—Savir (debate) 14 June 2018 at 12:40pm (EEST) Alphabetization of W The letter “w” in Finland is traditionally alphabetized to the same letter as “v”.


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According to the language office, this is still done, but it is also possible to alphabetize the letters separately, see. Has there been any policy agreed on in the English Wikipedia?


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Basically, I do support alphabetizing “Crow” and “Waris” to the same, but e.g. In Malian municipalities, this would seem a bit strange.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 14 June 2018 at 11:31am (EEST) However, there is a different letter, so I support that they are separately.


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Sounds pretty old-fashioned that would be classified as w v.


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Stryn (debate) 14 June 2018 at 4:13pm (EEST) I do not remember having agreed, nor did I find a discussion on this with a little searching.


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I would support alphabetizing apart on this basis (from the Language Office's instruction): If the alphabetizing material contains foreign names in addition to Finnish words and names (e.g. Wolf) or citation loans (wok), v and w can be alphabetized separately if necessary so that v comes before w.


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There are a lot of these we have in search terms.


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—Jmk (debate) 14 June 2018 at 4:53pm (EEST) Pop-rock vs.


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pop rock vs.


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poprock Shouldn't the term pop-rock be written with a hyphen together?


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From what I understand it is a musical genre that combines pop and rock equally, not a subgenre of rock, in which case the spelling would be pop rock.


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Outfit pop rock on the other hand is English.


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—Valtlai (k · m) 13 June 2018 at 10:08pm (EEST) This is the way I remember it.


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I'm not sure though.


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) June 14, 2018 at 11:58am (EEST) I would like to rename the Poprock article, but it cannot, as the article Pop-Rock is in the way.


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The admin would probably be able to make this move.


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—Valtlai (k · m) 15 June 2018 at 04:38am (EEST) Now I think there is a little taste of emergency.


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In this discussion a year and a half ago, it was noted, among other things, that apart from hard rock and rock and roll established in Finnish, foreign language genres can be written as connecting words: The language clock is along the same lines and states that, according to the instructions, the hyphen is not necessary in a hyphen containing a guest interconnect, but it is used especially when the foreign word is weird or awkwardly outlined: So basically I guess both pop rock and pop-rock are correct.


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—Sblöbö (debate) 15 June 2018 at 05:36 (EEST) Here the line is needed because the parts of the connecting word are parallel.


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For the same reason you write, for example, meat-macaroni box or red-greenblindness (rather than meat macaroni box, red-curd blindness).


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See. —Valtlai (k · m) 15 June 2018 at 4:14pm (EEST) Since both forms are correct and there will probably be no solution, change the rest.


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—raid5 (debate) 15 June 2018 at 23:02pm (EEST) Former athletes You, more actively spinning on Wikipedia, could perhaps consider how this is expressed when someone has finished their sports career.


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It's really disturbing that almost every article says “former” it and that.


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Let's see if this is a conversation.


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I myself now have more to do than spin around here, but I hope you come to a sensible solution.


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Nice, thanks hello!


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—PE-GA-SOS (debate) 17 June 2018 at 6:00pm (EEST) The debate has been taking place over the years and efforts to be avoided.


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Although I don't know if the “end of their careers” favoured by some people is any smoother.


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—Anr (debate) 17 June 2018 at 6:07pm (EEST) “Ended his active career”, “finished his career” or just “finished his career” are pretty common substitutes.


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Discussion on the subject frequently, e.g. Wikipedia:Kahvihuone (language maintenance) /Archive10 #Entinen_mies, Wikipedia:Kahvihuone (kielenhuolto) /Archive 19 #Entinen athlete and Wikipedia:Kahvihuone (kielenhuolto) /Archive 29#”... is a Finnish former athlete...”.


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—Nironen (debate) 17 June 2018 at 6:13pm (EEST) The former has actually been talked about several times and always stated that it is a bad expression.


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I think the simplest expression of all would be to talk about a career in the Imperfects, I suppose you realize without “ending his career” or other explanations that you don't play sports anymore: “XX YY is an athlete who played 550 games in the SM-liiga in his career.


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He represented three clubs in his career and won the Finnish Championship once.


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He ended his career in the spring of 2010".


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—PTG (discussion) 17 June 2018 at 7:45pm (EEST) Judo articles have featured former judokas, although careers might continue as a coach or otherwise in training.


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—raid5 (debate) 17 June 2018 at 9:39pm (EEST) Well the worst thing would be to say that XX was honduras (i?


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) a type of rotary boarder or Norwegian boot enjoyer.


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It becomes such a mental image that the person isn't alive.


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I don't think those others have a finesse value, but I still think about it.


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—Feathers (debate) 18 June 2018 at 01:30am (EEST) Instead, “was the former” already sounds like the significance depends on something else.


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Probably Aarne Orjatsalo was a former actor, but I think he was also a former athlete whose sporting achievements would not be enough for wiki significance. —Feathers (debate) 18 June 2018 at 01:35am (EEST) Sometimes Matti Vanhanenki was already named “former politician”.


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This kind of “ex” is actually research of its own.


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Of course, sports careers are coming to an end, but after all, some may continue to work with the sport either in veteran series or as coaches.


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And will the impale jumper now cease to be a pole jumper, even if he no longer sports and moves on to some work or profession out of the public eye.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 18 June 2018 at 10:13am (EEST) The word “former” may have negative tones in Finnish.


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But the introduction, I think, needs to somehow point out that a racing career has come to an end.


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A lot of MPs have sporting careers behind them, but I wish it would seem funny if there was a mention of a sporting career from decades ago as an equal to an MP's job.


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For Arto Bryggare, the formulation “former hurdler and SDP MP between 1995 and 1999 and 2003—2007" is not the best possible because the word “former” and periods do not indicate which one they relate to.


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However, I have yet to come up with a better one.


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—ABC10 (debate) June 18, 2018 at 10:38am (EEST) I myself cannot distinguish the former's badness compared to the one who has finished his active career, but I have stopped using it because, according to some, it is not allowed to be used. —Maquire (debate) 18 June 2018 at 11:26am (EEST) I don't know what's wrong with the former either.


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—Otrfan (debate) 18 June 2018 at 11:36am (EEST) So, I really don't like the idea of being told that I'm a former doctor, but when I feel like a mental testament, I don't want a wikipedia article telling me that Feathers was a former doctor .


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Never mind it at that point though.


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Most likely Wikipedia has crashed out of the way of some mobile data source by then.


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—Feathers (debate) 18 June 2018 at 12:59pm (EEST) The former and active career has usually both been removed at death. —Maquire (debate) 18 June 2018 at 1:38pm (EEST) I think, for example, a former triple defector is a valid expression.


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I can't see any negative tone in it.


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But if a person is said to be a former Vanuatuan triple-defector, you will create such a problem that it does not make clear unequivocally whether it is a former triple defector or a former Vanuatuan or even both.


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Quite often you see things like that, even if you get that problem out of that too by changing word order: a Vanuatuan former triple-defector.


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—Makevonlake (debate) 19 June 2018 at 11:24pm (EEST) This has been discussed in ancient times and the preferred form is “former Vanuatuan triple defector”.


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—Anr (debate) 20 June 2018 at 00:22 (EEST) Yet another reason to reject the former.


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—Lax (debate) 20 June 2018 at 00:38 (EEST) I have done some filtering in this area over the past few months, and my guideline has been on the point that PTG has mentioned that the imperfect is sufficiently telling about the end of a career.


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For example, in articles about Soviet athletics, I have deleted the “former” word (some of them written by me myself in the last decade), and from articles about Finnish ski jumpers I have removed the phrase “finished his career”, which some user favouring variable ip there diligently added.


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After all, Wikipedia is not a news outlet whose main job would be to tell you the current status.


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—Lax (debate) 18 June 2018 at 2:47pm (EEST) So do we remove the word former porn star from Rakel Flame's article? —Maquire (debate) 19 June 2018 at 11:37pm (EEST) May change it to, say, “who became known/went public as a porn actor” + some time limit if it is known when he starred (in the article I suddenly found like the year of the end of the porn career 2005, and “before the year 2005" would be a bit of a cuckoo expression for the introduction).


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—Lax (debate) 20 June 2018 at 00:10am (EEST) Will the same be added to Jürgen Klinsmann? —Maquire (debate) 20 June 2018 at 01:56am (EEST) If a person has no merit other than a “former athlete”, his place is not in the encyclopedia.


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This “language maintenance problem” is its logical consequence.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 20 June 2018 at 10:33am (EEST) Is the athlete now even more than ever after quitting the sport?


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After all, he still is.


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Some athletes are remarkable, even if they have no other merit, and that notability is in no way tied to whether or not a career continues yet. —Urjanhai (debate) 20 June 2018 at 11:55am (EEST) I see this article I have not edited, but I think it is a good example of a relevant sportsman article that has been well clarified without unnecessary explanations. —Urjanhai (discussion) 20 June 2018 at 11:58am (EEST) Find out about that comment.


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I repeat, however, that it is not Wikipedia's job to tell about contemporary status, so the old merites are as important as the new ones and thus is not essential to wiki personality.


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Thus, Beatrix also qualifies here (I see she will be named the former too).


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—Lax (debate) 20 June 2018 at 1:02pm (EEST) But if one is first a professional athlete and then enters another career where you achieve at least proportional wiki significance - then talk of a previous career as a “former athlete” is probably quite relevant?


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—J. Sketter (debate) 23 June 2018 at 12:36pm (EEST) I refer to my previous comments.


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—Lax (debate) 23 June 2018 at 2:55pm (EEST) French Somaliland or Somali Coast?


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I sometimes created an article about French Somali Coast, but I guess Somaliland is a more used form than Somali Coast these days, at least if there's any reliance on Google search.


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I wonder which name would be worth it to be.


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) 3 July 2018 at 10:51am (EEST) Finnish encyclopedias (the kind of real ones printed on paper that appeared in the last millennium) would seem to know only “French Somaliland”.


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These encyclopedias can be obtained at off-carry prices or free of charge these days and can give exciting perspective to history-free youth.


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You'd think bookshelves would still be found in some divar, too.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 3 July 2018 at 12:21pm (EEST) The title of the article is from the beginning of the 20th century Small Encyclopedia.


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Even if you're digitized, you could give some exciting perspective.


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That is, Finnish printed encyclopedias also know other versions of the name.


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—PTG (discussion) 3 July 2018 at 12:46pm (EEST) And if you have the time to drag yourself to the library, you can also find Kimmo Kiljusen's Countries of the World — Tickets and History, which is also a work worth visiting.


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—MiPe (wikinät) 3 July 2018 at 12:50pm (EEST) First Encyclopedia, New Encyclopedia from the early 1960s and 70's Spectrum and Countries and Peoples use the name “French Somaliland”.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 3 July 2018 at 1:23pm (EEST) It is worth using the most recent encyclopedias.


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The name formats used in the early 20th century did not necessarily become established in their then outfit later.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 5 July 2018 at 1:19pm (EEST) And that name format I remember seeing in some older school atlases as well.


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When the administrative unit of that name has apparently existed until the formation of independent Somalia, there is justification for the use of a source representing the latest period. —Urjanhai (debate) 5 July 2018 at 1:22pm (EEST) The name of French Somaliland was changed to Afar and Issamaa in 1967, so it is unlikely that much new wisdom has emerged since then.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 5 July 2018 at 1:27pm (EEST) Thanks for the elaboration, that's the name I remember seeing.


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When I was a kid, I knew all the school atlases by heart, but now, as an adult, memory is tenuous. —Urjanhai (discussion) 5 July 2018 at 1:32pm (EEST) @PtG: Can you delete the control page French Somaliland and move the page French Somali Coast to that name?


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However, I believe Somaliland is a newer term and thus more logical to use in the 21st century encyclopedia.


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) on 5 July 2018 at 05:45 (EEST) The administrator on duty did the job.


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Operations requiring maintenance can be requested on the administrators bulletin board, presumably followed by all administrators.


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—Jmk (debate) 6 July 2018 at 11:27am (EEST) Hérault or Hérault?


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Which is the right way to write?


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In the article List of communes of Hérault, both ways of writing are used.


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) July 5, 2018 at 1:37pm (EEST): When the name stops when writing in a consonant but pronouncing to a vowel, an apostrophe is used.


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As far as the french given in en-wiki.


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the pronunciation [eo] is correct, then it ends with a vowel.


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I mean Hérault.


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—Jmk (debate) 5 July 2018 at 1:47pm (EEST) Jees, this is what I thought.


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Thanks for confirming that!


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) July 5, 2018 at 2:04pm (EEST) Yet I always use no apostrophe way.


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—Moderhader (debate) 17 July 2018 at 12:20pm (EEST) In that case, you are misspelling.


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Airplane fan matter?


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| Synth List for July 17, 2018 at 12:21pm (EEST) Oh.


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—Moderhader (debate) 17 July 2018 at 12:30pm (EEST) If you can't speak French, or even if you do, there's really no use to that apostrophe.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 17 July 2018 at 2:07pm (EEST) So is “Heraultn” correct?


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—Feathers (debate) 17 July 2018 at 2:29pm (EEST) No, the only correct format in this case is “Hérault”, as shown in the Kotus link above.


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Airplane fan matter?


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| Sin List 17 July 2018 at 2:31pm (EEST) I will not argue, but it is easier for someone who is inept in French to read “Herault” and the French proficient can pronounce the word anyway.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 17 July 2018 at 2:53pm (EEST) As stated at the time in the Versailles debate, Kotus says both are correct.


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Giving false information is so wrong.—85.76.65.28 July 17, 2018 at 4:03pm (EEST) I don't remember what was stated in that conversation at the time, but according to Kotus, Versailles is explicitly an exception (since it can in principle be interpreted as both vowel and consonant ending).


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—PTG (debate) 17 July 2018 at 7:32pm (EEST) By sea or sea?


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I can't find out if it's supposed to say that the island is somewhere in the sea or in the sea.


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I tried searching Google for help but can't find.


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Does someone have information?


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—Gar.Bon.vez (debate) 28 July 2018 at 6:05pm (EEST) I would say, without sources, that the island is in the sea but the ship sails at sea.


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The island reaches to the bottom but the ship floats on the surface.


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I think you can also find language maintenance instructions. —Urjanhai (debate) 28 July 2018 at 9:12pm (EEST) However, “island in the South Sea” and, I see, more commonly, “island in the Pacific Ocean”.


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Does the sea depend on word formation or semantics?


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 28 July 2018 at 9:32pm (EEST) Perhaps here are both possible.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 28 July 2018 at 21:49 (EEST) Agree.


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It just depends on how you write the sentence, as Esamatti1 already said.


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However, both words mean the same or almost the same thing.


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—Puppe100 (debate) 28 July 2018 at 10:10pm (EEST) Atlantis may have been in ancient times in the Atlantic, or at sea, but may now be in the Atlantic, as part of the sea.


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Depending on the time, a suitable location form can be found.


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—raid5 (debate) 28 July 2018 at 23:00 (EEST) Searches for “island in the Caribbean/Indian Ocean/Pacific Ocean” The Finnish Languages Centre pages give several results (), but no outdoor localist searches.


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—Savir (debate) 28 July 2018 at 11:38pm (EEST) So the islands are in the sea and do not float at sea.


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—Gar.bon.vez (debate) 29 July 2018 at 20:59 (EEST) Floating on the island is not very common, habitable islands are at sea.


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It's safer when a ship sails at sea and isn't in the ocean.


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—raid5 (debate) 29 July 2018 at 9:30pm (EEST) At least the coral islands of Tuvalu K</s>are at sea according to the Centre for Homeland Languages: “Comprising nine coral islands in the Pacific Ocean in Polynesia”.


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Likewise, Tonga: “Composed of a group of 169 islands in the Pacific Ocean” and Bermuda: “A group of islands in the western Atlantic”.


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¬Antilope 30 July 2018 at 4:17pm (EEST) (EDIT: corrected typo.)


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Those aren't island groups.


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Tuvalu and Tonga are states, and Bermuda is a British overseas territory.


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I don't know the archipelago called the Coral Islands of Tuvalu.


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—Savir (debate) 30 July 2018 at 4:29pm (EEST) I don't really see your point.


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The quotes were from the website of the Centre for Domestic Kilds.


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Apart from the state, Tuvalu is “a group of islands in the Pacific Ocean” according to Yle and, according to the Language Office, its coral islands are “in the Pacific Ocean”.


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Tonga consists of 169 “groups of islands in the Pacific,” according to the Language Office, and Bermuda is also an “island group in the Atlantic”, according to the Language Office.


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However, the islands are all about.


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I fixed typo k→k.


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¬Antilope 30 July 2018 at 4:57pm (EEST) According to the “” pages of the Center for Domestic Languages, as a rule, islands and island groups are in the sea, states and other territories at sea.


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There's a bit of an inconsistency, though, or the rule is pretty complicated.


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Tuvalu and Tonga are countries, according to Kotus, that lie in the Pacific Ocean and consist of islands.


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Not there directly says that “the islands are in the Pacific.”


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My maps don't mention the island groups of Tuvalu, Tonga and Bermuda.


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If their islands were defined as belonging to some island groups, those island groups would probably be called the Tuvalu Islands, the Tonga Islands, and the Bermuda Islands (such as the Hawaii—Hawaii—Hawaiian Islands).


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—Savir (debate) 30 July 2018 at 5:30 p.m. (EEST) I understand its wavering in those pages is because the “Notes” is talking about a region, between an island/island group.


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Where a region, or a country/state, consists of an island or group of islands of the same name, there is often said in the sea, apparently referring to the island/island group.


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But when a territory consisting of many islands is different from that of an island group, or when there is no island group, such as Tuvalu, Tonga and Bermuda, the Outer Local Sea is used.


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—Savir (debate) 30 July 2018 at 5:45pm (EEST) I would think that the indoor localist is in some ways more concrete and the outdoor localist more vague.


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Kind of like “study at university”, “work at the University of Helsinki”, but “eat lunch at the university”, “go to work at the university”.


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In this island case, the difference is probably very small in any case.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 30 July 2018 at 5:58pm (EEST) The question of a university is whether the university refers to an “imagined” institution or concrete buildings owned by a particular university.


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Acting in the former, such as studying in its courses or working for it, is to be “inside” or part of it, in the latter merely “outside” its buildings.


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—Savir (debate) 30 July 2018 at 6:25pm (EEST) Strange use of İN Why is Istanbul without İzmir, while İzmir and İzmit are with İzmit?


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I also think Istanbul should be under the name İstanbul.


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—Moderhader (debate) 8 August 2018 at 8:25pm (EEST) Istanbul is Istanbul because the format is well established in Finland.


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Direction:Article title: the name of the article should be the one used to refer to the topic in the common language of Finnish.


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See


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also the Help of the Language Office: In Finland and other languages, some foreign country place names are used as exonyms, namely national conformist names, which are written differently in that language than in the languages of the countries where they are located.


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Istanbul also coincidentally appears in the instruction: Yeni Cami 'new mosque' is one of Istanbul's most famous buildings.


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—Jmk (debate) 8 August 2018 at 21:18 (EEST) I think it should really be İstanbul.


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Sometimes when writing by hand (I never) comes to the big I:Hink's point.


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—Moderhader (debate) 17 August 2018 at 1:54pm (EEST) So that you think.


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Well then maybe you'll dig out some Finnish sources and see how they write in them.


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—Jmk (debate) 17 August 2018 at 2:01pm (EEST) Do you need to use Finnish names for Yle series?


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For a lot of reasons, there's nothing to amuse.


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Translators sometimes make unintelligent solutions, such as Family of Small (TLC).


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The Finnish name gives you the wrong kind of associations.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 23 August 2018 at 4:27pm (EEST) Yes they must be used where the viewer otherwise knows to search Wikipedia for the correct article.


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The correct complaint address is Yle and not Wikipedia.


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Besides, being unintelligent isn't always at Yle's end.


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... Besides, it comes from the TLC channel which is “a colorful entertainment channel for young women aged 15 to 34 whose world is full of possibilities.”


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—85.76.80.49 23 August 2018 at 4:45pm (EEST) The reader will find the right article because the controls will help everyone.


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Fortunately, even when it comes to films, it is now common to use original names, which is only a good trend, since the viewer should not be underestimated.


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—Pe-ga-sos (discussion) on 23 August 2018 at 4:50pm (EEST) Yes, translating Chinese movie names and twisting the letters into something is a gross underestimation of the viewer.


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—Lax (debate) 23 August 2018 at 4:56pm (EEST) Especially when there are pretty damn Chinese people.


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As we can probably guess, all Finns could fit in one city in China.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 23 August 2018 at 4:59pm (EEST) Chinese films do not spread very widely in Europe, but since Lax took the debate to the sidelines, the film King of Masks is honoured.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 23 August 2018 at 5:02pm (EEST) Literacy is not held by all Finns (kas), not working here on Wikipedia either... —85.76.98.156 August 23, 2018 at 5:05pm (EEST) Your comments might have more creditability, i.e. credibility if register yourself a username.


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Also, an endless number of points after sentences are not conducive to the cause —PE-GA-SOS (debate) 23 August 2018 at 5:49pm (EEST) Wikipedia's job is not to serve the illiterate.


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Back then, if you think you're working at Wikipedia, you might want to take a break.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 23 August 2018 at 5:07pm (EEST) Yes but the series is not presented by Yle.


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—85.76.99.214 23 August 2018 at 5:38pm (EEST) I used the phrase “for example”, but they can be “refined” in general how to amuse them.