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—Prospero One (debate) June 1, 2018 at 3:23pm (EEST) to the 1930s is, instead for others in the decades of the 20th century or the 21st century does not appear to be.


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—Feathers (debate) 1 June 2018 at 3:40pm (EEST) Removing but without votes, when these have only been created in 3 categories and all recently.


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It would be different if there were more classes and had been for years.


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Stryn (discussion) 1 June 2018 at 15:46 (EEST) I reported this discussion on the discussion page of NIKKEF, a user who created two categories and knows.


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In my opinion, although this is not the best place for this debate, perhaps it is not worth moving this elsewhere so as not to break up the whole bubble again.


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—Feathers (debate) 1 June 2018 at 9:21pm (EEST) Link camouflage Hello!


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I bumped and went to take it apart.


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In the case of bass guitar, it is not necessary to make such abbreviations in the text; the link can be left in the form of a bass guitar and no [[bass guitar|bass]] camouflage.— 2001:14 BB: 72:60 B9:E 656:4784:E 155:2 F44 1 June 2018 at 9:00pm (EEST) The bass is shorter and certainly more common form, So why couldn't it be like that?


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Stryn (debate) 1 June 2018 at 9:03pm (EEST) Bass is usually the bottom instrument for music.


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In practice, bass guitar, double bass, tuba, bass clarinet, barotone saxophone, cello, bassoon can all be basses.


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By the same logic, you could have [[double bass|bass]] linking.


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I don't think there's any point in this overlinking.


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Bass is primarily a vocal field besides .— 2001:14 BB: 72:60 B9:E 656:4784:E 155:2 F44 1 June 2018 at 9:08pm (EEST) I think the question is finally whether the abbreviation “bass”, which is commonly found in the context of rock music, etc. encyclopedic text of high quality.


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When I am neither a connoisseur nor an enthusiast, I leave this to those who know the music circle better. —Urjanhai (debate) 2 June 2018 at 09:46 (EEST) In the back years there was talk of electric bass. —Htm (debate) 2 June 2018 at 10:05am (EEST) I repeat myself from some other conversation while you are repeating.


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Electric bass can (theoretically) also mean a rare electrified upright bass, so bass guitar is a more accurate term.


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But when you're in the context of rock music, the bass word I think most often suffices as long as it's linked to the word bass guitar and not the word bass.


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Kotivalo (debate) 2 June 2018 at 10:12am (EEST) And on the other hand can also be an acoustic bass guitar.


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I agree I like Home Light, that bass word as the normal meaning of rock etc.


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context can be considered bass guitar, so “bass” suffices.


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On the other hand, if it says “bass guitar” somewhere, then I guess it doesn't hurt in itself.


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Then, in the case of an ensemble that uses a range of instruments different from the average rock lineup, then specify in such a context.


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You really have to be careful not to have that error link mentioned by Kotivalo.


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Another question about me then is, is there in general a reason in every band and album article to link to those “normal” instrument names.


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The reader of the metal album article now probably knows anyway what is a guitar, for example.


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Then again, if you go outside the genre norm instrument, linking is justified.


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—Makevonlake (debate) 2 June 2018 at 10:32am (EEST) The problem is that no articles are written (=should not be written) for people who do not know anything but are looking for information.


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Therefore, all kinds of specialty terms and abbreviations should be avoided, when they can cause confusion.


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—ABC10 (debate) June 2, 2018 at 10:36am (EEST) ringala, pidoli, tilmiö The name of the article Internet phenomenon was moved to Internet phenomenon.


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Interpretations of Kotus's instruction were presented on the discussion page of the article.


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Which interpretation is considered correct? —Urjanhai (debate) 2 June 2018 at 09:33 (EEST) Follow-up discussion moved to Discussion:Internettilmiö #Siirto?. —Urjanhai (debate) June 2, 2018 at 3:18pm (EEST) Grand Mosque or Grand Mosque I made a couple of “Great Mosques”, Djenné and Niono, but then I remembered that Helsinki was working on a “Grand Mosque” (“Helsinki Grand Mosque” 2560 Google hits, “Great Mosque of Helsinki” one) .


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Which is better or does it matter?


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 16 May 2018 at 2:25pm (EEST) The Grand Mosque felt immediately more familiar in the ear, not just because of Helsinki, and a search engine search produced a similar result.


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I used to search for different bending forms in Helsinki, and yet the Grand Mosque was superior.


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—Tpe1 (debate) on 18 May 2018 at 11:29am (EEST) p.s.


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Helsinki also had the Cathedral's former name Suurkirkko rather than the Great Church, so perhaps the word has more traditions, whether church or mosque.


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With Syngogue, though, you can't find a connecting word other than in a few random comments on mosque contexts.


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—Tpe1 (debate) May 18, 2018 at 11:32am (EEST) I would support the use of the Grand Mosque, an established word.


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For example, the very mosque of Djenne is named the Grand Mosque by Science magazine.


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—Ukas (discussion) 26 May 2018 at 2:37pm (EEST) Thank you for your comments.


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I'm going to change the names to Grand Mosques.


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—Esamatti1 (discussion) 3 June 2018 at 8:02 p.m. (EEST) Writing tips Fire against this kind, which has presented a few problem points that wikipedia also constantly runs into.


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If there is a desire to develop their articles as linguistically good, you should read.


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—Teakoo (debate) 5 June 2018 at 6:49pm (EEST) to corrode or corrode.. i.e. cause corrosion.


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My tongue ear would speak for the latter, instant googling is fag-wolf on its side.


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What does the jury say?


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—Feathers (debate) 5 June 2018 at 8:02pm (EEST) There is no verb in the Language Office dictionary, but the office would probably know how to answer if you can call it.


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The net actually gives conflicting answers: and.


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—Teakoo (debate) 5 June 2018 at 8:14pm (EEST) It came to mind that cookout may not produce the best possible answer, because people now write what hurts.


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—Teakoo (debate) 5 June 2018 at 8:16pm (EEST) In what way is Serge Gainsbourg's surname spelled in this case?


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Is it Gainsbourg's or Gainsbourg's?


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) 14 June 2018 at 11:57am (EEST) The name ends with a consonant even when pronunciated, so it bends Gainsbourg.


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—Savir (debate) 14 June 2018 at 12:40pm (EEST) Alphabetization of W The letter “w” in Finland is traditionally alphabetized to the same letter as “v”.


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According to the language office, this is still done, but it is also possible to alphabetize the letters separately, see. Has there been any policy agreed on in the English Wikipedia?


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Basically, I do support alphabetizing “Crow” and “Waris” to the same, but e.g. In Malian municipalities, this would seem a bit strange.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 14 June 2018 at 11:31am (EEST) However, there is a different letter, so I support that they are separately.


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Sounds pretty old-fashioned that would be classified as w v.


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Stryn (debate) 14 June 2018 at 4:13pm (EEST) I do not remember having agreed, nor did I find a discussion on this with a little searching.


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I would support alphabetizing apart on this basis (from the Language Office's instruction): If the alphabetizing material contains foreign names in addition to Finnish words and names (e.g. Wolf) or citation loans (wok), v and w can be alphabetized separately if necessary so that v comes before w.


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There are a lot of these we have in search terms.


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—Jmk (debate) 14 June 2018 at 4:53pm (EEST) Pop-rock vs.


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pop rock vs.


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poprock Shouldn't the term pop-rock be written with a hyphen together?


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From what I understand it is a musical genre that combines pop and rock equally, not a subgenre of rock, in which case the spelling would be pop rock.


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Outfit pop rock on the other hand is English.


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—Valtlai (k · m) 13 June 2018 at 10:08pm (EEST) This is the way I remember it.


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I'm not sure though.


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) June 14, 2018 at 11:58am (EEST) I would like to rename the Poprock article, but it cannot, as the article Pop-Rock is in the way.


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The admin would probably be able to make this move.


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—Valtlai (k · m) 15 June 2018 at 04:38am (EEST) Now I think there is a little taste of emergency.


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In this discussion a year and a half ago, it was noted, among other things, that apart from hard rock and rock and roll established in Finnish, foreign language genres can be written as connecting words: The language clock is along the same lines and states that, according to the instructions, the hyphen is not necessary in a hyphen containing a guest interconnect, but it is used especially when the foreign word is weird or awkwardly outlined: So basically I guess both pop rock and pop-rock are correct.


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—Sblöbö (debate) 15 June 2018 at 05:36 (EEST) Here the line is needed because the parts of the connecting word are parallel.


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For the same reason you write, for example, meat-macaroni box or red-greenblindness (rather than meat macaroni box, red-curd blindness).


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See. —Valtlai (k · m) 15 June 2018 at 4:14pm (EEST) Since both forms are correct and there will probably be no solution, change the rest.


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—raid5 (debate) 15 June 2018 at 23:02pm (EEST) Former athletes You, more actively spinning on Wikipedia, could perhaps consider how this is expressed when someone has finished their sports career.


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It's really disturbing that almost every article says “former” it and that.


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Let's see if this is a conversation.


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I myself now have more to do than spin around here, but I hope you come to a sensible solution.


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Nice, thanks hello!


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—PE-GA-SOS (debate) 17 June 2018 at 6:00pm (EEST) The debate has been taking place over the years and efforts to be avoided.


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Although I don't know if the “end of their careers” favoured by some people is any smoother.


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—Anr (debate) 17 June 2018 at 6:07pm (EEST) “Ended his active career”, “finished his career” or just “finished his career” are pretty common substitutes.


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Discussion on the subject frequently, e.g. Wikipedia:Kahvihuone (language maintenance) /Archive10 #Entinen_mies, Wikipedia:Kahvihuone (kielenhuolto) /Archive 19 #Entinen athlete and Wikipedia:Kahvihuone (kielenhuolto) /Archive 29#”... is a Finnish former athlete...”.


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—Nironen (debate) 17 June 2018 at 6:13pm (EEST) The former has actually been talked about several times and always stated that it is a bad expression.


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I think the simplest expression of all would be to talk about a career in the Imperfects, I suppose you realize without “ending his career” or other explanations that you don't play sports anymore: “XX YY is an athlete who played 550 games in the SM-liiga in his career.


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He represented three clubs in his career and won the Finnish Championship once.


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He ended his career in the spring of 2010".


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—PTG (discussion) 17 June 2018 at 7:45pm (EEST) Judo articles have featured former judokas, although careers might continue as a coach or otherwise in training.


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—raid5 (debate) 17 June 2018 at 9:39pm (EEST) Well the worst thing would be to say that XX was honduras (i?


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) a type of rotary boarder or Norwegian boot enjoyer.


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It becomes such a mental image that the person isn't alive.


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I don't think those others have a finesse value, but I still think about it.


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—Feathers (debate) 18 June 2018 at 01:30am (EEST) Instead, “was the former” already sounds like the significance depends on something else.


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Probably Aarne Orjatsalo was a former actor, but I think he was also a former athlete whose sporting achievements would not be enough for wiki significance. —Feathers (debate) 18 June 2018 at 01:35am (EEST) Sometimes Matti Vanhanenki was already named “former politician”.


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This kind of “ex” is actually research of its own.


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Of course, sports careers are coming to an end, but after all, some may continue to work with the sport either in veteran series or as coaches.


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And will the impale jumper now cease to be a pole jumper, even if he no longer sports and moves on to some work or profession out of the public eye.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 18 June 2018 at 10:13am (EEST) The word “former” may have negative tones in Finnish.


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But the introduction, I think, needs to somehow point out that a racing career has come to an end.


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A lot of MPs have sporting careers behind them, but I wish it would seem funny if there was a mention of a sporting career from decades ago as an equal to an MP's job.


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For Arto Bryggare, the formulation “former hurdler and SDP MP between 1995 and 1999 and 2003—2007" is not the best possible because the word “former” and periods do not indicate which one they relate to.


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However, I have yet to come up with a better one.


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—ABC10 (debate) June 18, 2018 at 10:38am (EEST) I myself cannot distinguish the former's badness compared to the one who has finished his active career, but I have stopped using it because, according to some, it is not allowed to be used. —Maquire (debate) 18 June 2018 at 11:26am (EEST) I don't know what's wrong with the former either.


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—Otrfan (debate) 18 June 2018 at 11:36am (EEST) So, I really don't like the idea of being told that I'm a former doctor, but when I feel like a mental testament, I don't want a wikipedia article telling me that Feathers was a former doctor. .


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I don't mind it at that point though.


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Most likely Wikipedia has crashed out of the way of some mobile data source by then.


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—Feathers (debate) 18 June 2018 at 12:59pm (EEST) The former and active career has usually both been removed at death. —Maquire (debate) 18 June 2018 at 1:38pm (EEST) I think, for example, a former triple defector is a valid expression.


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I can't see any negative tone in it.


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But if a person is said to be a former Vanuatuan triple-defector, you will create such a problem that it does not make clear unequivocally whether it is a former triple defector or a former Vanuatuan or even both.


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Quite often you see things like that, even if you get that problem out of that too by changing word order: a Vanuatuan former triple-defector.


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—Makevonlake (debate) 19 June 2018 at 11:24pm (EEST) This has been discussed in ancient times and the preferred form is “former Vanuatuan triple defector”.


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—Anr (debate) 20 June 2018 at 00:22 (EEST) Yet another reason to reject the former.


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—Lax (debate) 20 June 2018 at 00:38 (EEST) I have done some filtering in this area over the past few months, and my guideline has been on the point that PTG has mentioned that the imperfect is sufficiently telling about the end of a career.


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For example, in articles about Soviet athletics, I have deleted the “former” word (some of them written by me myself in the last decade), and from articles about Finnish ski jumpers I have removed the phrase “finished his career”, which some user favouring variable ip there diligently added.


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After all, Wikipedia is not a news channel whose main job would be to tell you the current status.


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—Lax (debate) 18 June 2018 at 2:47pm (EEST) So do we remove the word former porn star from Rakel Flame's article? —Maquire (debate) 19 June 2018 at 11:37pm (EEST) May change it to, say, “who became known/went public as a porn actor” + some time limit if it is known when he starred (in the article I suddenly found like the year of the end of the porn career 2005, and “before the year 2005" would be a bit of a cuckoo expression for the introduction).


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—Lax (debate) 20 June 2018 at 00:10am (EEST) Will the same be added to Jürgen Klinsmann? —Maquire (debate) 20 June 2018 at 01:56am (EEST) If a person has no merit other than a “former athlete”, his place is not in the encyclopedia.


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This “language maintenance problem” is its logical consequence.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 20 June 2018 at 10:33am (EEST) Is the athlete now even more than ever after quitting the sport?


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After all, he still is.


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Some athletes are remarkable, even if they have no other merit, and that notability is in no way tied to whether or not a career continues yet. —Urjanhai (debate) 20 June 2018 at 11:55am (EEST) I see this article I have not edited, but I think it is a good example of a relevant sportsman article that has been well clarified without unnecessary explanations. —Urjanhai (discussion) 20 June 2018 at 11:58am (EEST) Find out about that comment.


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I repeat, however, that it is not Wikipedia's job to tell about contemporary status, so the old merites are as important as the new ones and thus is not essential to wiki personality.


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Thus, Beatrix also qualifies here (I see she will be named the former too).


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—Lax (debate) 20 June 2018 at 1:02pm (EEST) But if one is first a professional athlete and then enters another career where you achieve at least proportional wiki significance - then talk of a previous career as a “former athlete” is probably quite relevant?


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—J. Sketter (debate) 23 June 2018 at 12:36pm (EEST) I refer to my previous comments.


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—Lax (debate) 23 June 2018 at 2:55pm (EEST) French Somaliland or Somali Coast?


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I sometimes created an article about French Somali Coast, but I guess Somaliland is a more used form than Somali Coast these days, at least if there's any reliance on Google search.


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I wonder which name should be.


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) 3 July 2018 at 10:51am (EEST) Finnish encyclopedias (the kind of real ones printed on paper that appeared in the last millennium) would seem to know only “French Somaliland”.


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These encyclopedias can be obtained at off-carry prices or free of charge these days and can give exciting perspective to history-free youth.


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You'd think bookshelves would still be found in some divar, too.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 3 July 2018 at 12:21pm (EEST) The title of the article is from the beginning of the 20th century Small Encyclopedia.


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Even if you're digitized, you could give some exciting perspective.


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That is, Finnish printed encyclopedias also know other versions of the name.


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—PTG (discussion) 3 July 2018 at 12:46pm (EEST) And if you have the time to drag yourself to the library, you can also find Kimmo Kiljusen's Countries of the World — Tickets and History, which is also a work worth visiting.


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—MiPe (wikinät) 3 July 2018 at 12:50pm (EEST) First Encyclopedia, New Encyclopedia from the early 1960s and 70's Spectrum and Countries and Peoples use the name “French Somaliland”.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 3 July 2018 at 1:23pm (EEST) It is worth using the most recent encyclopedias.


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The name forms used in the early 20th century did not necessarily become established in their then outfit later.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 5 July 2018 at 1:19pm (EEST) And that name format I remember seeing in some older school atlases as well.


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When the administrative unit of that name has apparently existed until the formation of independent Somalia, there is justification for the use of a source representing the latest period. —Urjanhai (debate) 5 July 2018 at 1:22pm (EEST) The name of French Somaliland was changed to Afar and Issamaa in 1967, so it is unlikely that much new wisdom has emerged since then.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 5 July 2018 at 1:27pm (EEST) Thanks for the elaboration, that's the name I remember seeing.


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When I was a kid, I knew all the school atlases by heart, but now, as an adult, memory is tenuous. —Urjanhai (discussion) 5 July 2018 at 1:32pm (EEST) @PtG: Can you delete the control page French Somaliland and move the page French Somali Coast to that name?


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However, I believe Somaliland is a newer term and thus more logical to use in the 21st century encyclopedia.


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) on 5 July 2018 at 05:45 (EEST) The administrator on duty did the job.


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Operations requiring maintenance can be requested on the administrators bulletin board, presumably followed by all administrators.


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—Jmk (debate) 6 July 2018 at 11:27am (EEST) Hérault or Hérault?


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Which is the right way to write?


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In the article List of communes of Hérault, both ways of writing are used.


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) July 5, 2018 at 1:37pm (EEST): When the name stops when writing in a consonant but pronouncing to a vowel, an apostrophe is used.


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As far as the french given in en-wiki.


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the pronunciation [eo] is correct, then it ends with a vowel.


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I mean Hérault.


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—Jmk (debate) 5 July 2018 at 1:47pm (EEST) Jees, I thought.


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Thanks for confirming that!


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—Sullay (Let us discuss it) July 5, 2018 at 2:04pm (EEST) Yet I always use no apostrophe way.


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—Moderhader (debate) 17 July 2018 at 12:20pm (EEST) In that case, you are misspelling.


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Airplane fan matter?


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| Synth List for July 17, 2018 at 12:21pm (EEST) Oh.


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—Moderhader (debate) 17 July 2018 at 12:30pm (EEST) If you can't speak French, or even if you do, there's really no use to that apostrophe.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 17 July 2018 at 2:07pm (EEST) So is “Heraultn” correct?


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—Feathers (debate) 17 July 2018 at 2:29pm (EEST) No, the only correct format in this case is “Hérault”, as shown in the Kotus link above.


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Airplane fan matter?


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| Sin List 17 July 2018 at 2:31pm (EEST) I will not argue, but it is easier for someone who is inept in French to read “Herault” and the French proficient can pronounce the word anyway.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 17 July 2018 at 2:53pm (EEST) As stated at the time in the Versailles debate, Kotus says both are correct.


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Giving false information is so wrong.—85.76.65.28 July 17, 2018 at 4:03pm (EEST) I don't remember what was stated in that conversation at the time, but according to Kotus, Versailles is explicitly an exception (since it can in principle be interpreted as both vowel and consonant ending).


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—PTG (debate) 17 July 2018 at 7:32pm (EEST) By sea or sea?


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I can't find out if it's supposed to say that the island is somewhere in the sea or in the sea.


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I tried to search Google for help but can't find.


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Does someone have information?


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—Gar.Bon.vez (debate) 28 July 2018 at 6:05pm (EEST) I would say, without sources, that the island is in the sea but the ship sails at sea.


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The island reaches to the bottom but the ship floats on the surface.


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I think you can also find language maintenance instructions. —Urjanhai (debate) 28 July 2018 at 9:12pm (EEST) However, “island in the South Sea” and, I see, more commonly, “island in the Pacific Ocean”.


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Does the sea depend on word formation or semantics?


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 28 July 2018 at 9:32pm (EEST) Perhaps here are both possible.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 28 July 2018 at 21:49 (EEST) Agree.


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It just depends on how you write the sentence, as Esamatti1 already said.


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However, both words mean the same or almost the same thing.


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—Puppe100 (debate) 28 July 2018 at 10:10pm (EEST) Atlantis may have been in ancient times in the Atlantic, or at sea, but may now be in the Atlantic, as part of the sea.


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Depending on the time, a suitable location form can be found.


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—raid5 (debate) 28 July 2018 at 23:00 (EEST) Searches for “island in the Caribbean/Indian Ocean/Pacific Ocean” The Finnish Languages Centre pages give several results (), but no outdoor localist searches.


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—Savir (debate) 28 July 2018 at 11:38pm (EEST) So the islands are in the sea and do not float at sea.


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—Gar.bon.vez (debate) 29 July 2018 at 8:59pm (EEST) Floating on the island is not very common, habitable islands are at sea.


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It's safer when a ship sails at sea and isn't in the ocean.


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—raid5 (debate) 29 July 2018 at 9:30pm (EEST) At least the coral islands of Tuvalu K</s>are at sea according to the Centre for Homeland Languages: “Comprising nine coral islands in the Pacific Ocean in Polynesia”.


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Likewise, Tonga: “Composed of a group of 169 islands in the Pacific Ocean” and Bermuda: “A group of islands in the western Atlantic”.


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¬Antilope 30 July 2018 at 4:17pm (EEST) (EDIT: corrected typo.)


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Those aren't island groups.


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Tuvalu and Tonga are states, and Bermuda is a British overseas territory.


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I don't know the archipelago called the Coral Islands of Tuvalu.


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—Savir (debate) 30 July 2018 at 4:29pm (EEST) I don't really see your point.


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The quotes were from the website of the Centre for Domestic Kilds.


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Apart from the state, Tuvalu is “a group of islands in the Pacific Ocean” according to Yle and, according to the Language Office, its coral islands are “in the Pacific Ocean”.


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Tonga consists of 169 “groups of islands in the Pacific,” according to the Language Office, and Bermuda is also an “island group in the Atlantic”, according to the Language Office.


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The islands are, however, all of them at stake.


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I fixed typo k→k.


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¬Antilope 30 July 2018 at 4:57pm (EEST) According to the “” pages of the Center for Domestic Languages, as a rule, islands and island groups are in the sea, states and other territories at sea.


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There's a bit of an inconsistency, though, or the rule is pretty complicated.


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Tuvalu and Tonga are countries, according to Kotus, that lie in the Pacific Ocean and consist of islands.


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Not there directly says that “the islands are in the Pacific.”


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My maps don't mention the island groups of Tuvalu, Tonga and Bermuda.


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If their islands were defined as belonging to some island groups, those island groups would probably be called the Tuvalu Islands, the Tonga Islands, and the Bermuda Islands (such as the Hawaii—Hawaii—Hawaiian Islands).


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—Savir (debate) 30 July 2018 at 5:30 p.m. (EEST) I understand its wavering in those pages is because the “Notes” is talking about a region, between an island/island group.


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Where a region, or a country/state, consists of an island or group of islands of the same name, there is often said in the sea, apparently referring to the island/island group.


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But when a territory consisting of many islands is different from that of an island group, or when there is no island group, such as Tuvalu, Tonga and Bermuda, the Outer Local Sea is used.


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—Savir (debate) 30 July 2018 at 5:45pm (EEST) I would think that the indoor localist is in some ways more concrete and the outdoor localist more vague.


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Kind of like “study at university”, “work at the University of Helsinki”, but “eat lunch at the university”, “go to work at the university”.


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In this island case, the difference is probably very small in any case.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 30 July 2018 at 5:58pm (EEST) The question of a university is whether the university refers to an “imagined” institution or concrete buildings owned by a particular university.


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Acting in the former, such as studying in its courses or working for it, is to be “inside” or part of it, in the latter merely “outside” its buildings.


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—Savir (debate) 30 July 2018 at 6:25pm (EEST) Strange use of İN Why is Istanbul without İzmir, while İzmir and İzmit are with İzmit?


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I also think Istanbul should be under the name İstanbul.


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—Moderhader (debate) 8 August 2018 at 8:25pm (EEST) Istanbul is Istanbul because the format is well established in Finland.


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Direction:Article title: the name of the article should be the one used to refer to the topic in the common language of Finnish.


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See


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also the Help of the Language Office: In Finland and other languages, some foreign country place names are used as exonyms, namely national conformist names, which are written differently in that language than in the languages of the countries where they are located.


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Istanbul also coincidentally appears in the instruction: Yeni Cami 'new mosque' is one of Istanbul's most famous buildings.


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—Jmk (debate) 8 August 2018 at 21:18 (EEST) I think it should really be İstanbul.


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Sometimes when writing by hand (I never) comes to the big I:Hink's point.


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—Moderhader (debate) 17 August 2018 at 1:54pm (EEST) So that you think.


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Well then maybe you'll dig out some Finnish sources and see how they write in them.


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—Jmk (debate) 17 August 2018 at 2:01pm (EEST) Do you need to use Finnish names for Yle series?


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For a lot of reasons, there's nothing to amuse.


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Translators sometimes make unintelligent solutions, such as Family of Small (TLC).


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The Finnish name gives you the wrong kind of associations.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 23 August 2018 at 4:27pm (EEST) Yes they must be used where the viewer otherwise knows to search Wikipedia for the correct article.


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The correct complaint address is Yle and not Wikipedia.


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Besides, being unintelligent isn't always at Yle's end.


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... Besides, it comes from the TLC channel which is “a colorful entertainment channel for young women aged 15 to 34 whose world is full of possibilities.”


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—85.76.80.49 23 August 2018 at 4:45pm (EEST) The reader will find the right article because the controls will help everyone.


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Fortunately, even when it comes to films, it is now common to use original names, which is only a good trend, since the viewer should not be underestimated.


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—Pe-ga-sos (discussion) on 23 August 2018 at 4:50pm (EEST) Yes, translating Chinese movie names and twisting the letters into something is a gross underestimation of the viewer.


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—Lax (debate) 23 August 2018 at 4:56pm (EEST) Especially when there are pretty damn Chinese people.


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As we can probably guess, all Finns could fit in one city in China.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 23 August 2018 at 4:59pm (EEST) Chinese films do not spread very widely in Europe, but since Lax took the debate to the sidelines, the film King of Masks is honoured.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 23 August 2018 at 5:02pm (EEST) Literacy is not held by all Finns (kas), not working here on Wikipedia either... —85.76.98.156 23 August 2018 at 5:05pm (EEST) Your comments might have more creditability, i.e. credibility if register yourself a username.


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Also, an endless number of points after sentences are not conducive to the cause —PE-GA-SOS (debate) 23 August 2018 at 5:49pm (EEST) Wikipedia's job is not to serve the illiterate.


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Back then, if you think you're working at Wikipedia, you might want to take a break.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 23 August 2018 at 5:07pm (EEST) Yes but the series is not presented by Yle.


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—85.76.99.214 23 August 2018 at 5:38pm (EEST) I used the phrase “for example”, but they can be “refined” in general how to amuse them.


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The discussion now strayed so badly from the topic aside, I guess I can't have the stomach to comment anymore.


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Throwing a crap can get you a tuut full of the same stuff back.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 23 August 2018 at 5:49pm (EEST) The television series uses the name under which it is aired in Finland.


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In what way is it to underestimate the viewer to use a Finnish name.


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Yes Finnish must be supported and not to bring English into everything possible.


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—PTG (debate) 23 August 2018 at 23:05pm (EEST) Wikipedia forcibly twists everything in Finnish.


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The net is on its side of the debate about silly names in the Finnish language of movies.


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Let's keep dumbing down when told once.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 24th Aug 2018 at 09:50 (EEST) Don't read the internet, it's full of all kinds of silly conversation.


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Wikipedia isn't made based on vague internet chats, but using reliable sources.


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Read them.


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Vague internet conversations distort thinking.


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—37.33.179.186 24 August 2018 at 10:11am (EEST) I didn't get tired because of the online chat, but because you do what happens in general.


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Wikipedia is online too and this discussion can't in any form be called high quality.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 24 August 2018 at 10:23am (EEST) Wikipedia's job is not to dignify the silliness of names, but to use the name that is commonly used.


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You can also find a lot of discussions in English on the internet about the silliness of some of the original names, for example.


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The name of the Bond film Quantum of Solace, for instance, is being barked at in many places.


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It has not been translated into Finnish.


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Should we now come up with a better name for the movie on Wikipedia, so as not to put a silly English name?


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—PTG (debate) 24 August 2018 at 11:22am (EEST) If the TV titles of movies are valid for Wikipedia, then I will use them in the future.


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But even this now went a bit aside on the subject when it was originally planned to discuss series names.


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I already went to rename the title of the article to YLE-style, though I'm not at all happy about this edit.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 24 August 2018 at 12:12pm (EEST) The films primarily use the original distribution title.


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Television shows may still change the names of films, but that theatrical label is actually primary (often found in Elonet).


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In television series then, of course, television names.


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—PTG (debate) 24 August 2018 at 12:27pm (EEST) They are doing these TV titles on a conveyor belt and even if the translation is not very successful someone will leak to Wikipedia.


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—PE-GA-SOS (debate) 24 August 2018 at 12:31pm (EEST) I mean the article Different top model in search.


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I wanted to mention it, as far as anyone is digging into this discussion about caches in the archives.


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—PE-GA-SOS (debate) 24 August 2018 at 12:23pm (EEST) So the whole complaint began with a name that is quite good, quite sensible and which would have been difficult to better translate.


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Iivarius (debate) 24 August 2018 at 2:01pm (EEST) Why does everything always have to be so different, with the other kind of frends?


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Such language repeats and drives disabled people to the margins.


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It's not hard to come up with a better translation for a template program like, say, Looking for the Lost Top Model.


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This program is not part of the Top Model in Search series, so far the compiler has made a bad and misleading solution.


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—PE-ga-sos (debate) 24 August 2018 at 2:19pm (EEST) Asiahan is not corrected by typing here.


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Contact the TV channels that are airing those shows and reasonably tell us why the names are bad.


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This whole thread of discussion is therefore completely pointless.


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Now it's only in your last post that you tell me what's at issue, which is attitudes towards people with disabilities, discriminatory use of language.


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I myself have had the news headline changed when I posted a message about its offensiveness.


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I don't know if you can change series names just like that in the middle of everything, but thinking about future series you might wake them up thinking about what kind of names will be given to the series.


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Perhaps they could even consult those organisations whenever there is some more special series coming up.


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—mtt.wiki (discussion) 24 August 2018 at 2:34pm (EEST) Öö, different frends?


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What would the “equal” name be, Frendit?


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A little could be confused.


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Pegasos, you're just off the hook.


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Retards are certainly not discriminated against by the names of TV shows, but rather other things like the lack of assistants and taxi rides etc.


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176.72.153.35 August 30, 2018 6:26pm (EEST) If there is more interest in the media industry and its way of dealing with disability, read Black Glasses — Disability on the big screen and on TV.


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Now I'm not going to be riddling what would be a better name for this series of The Other Friends', because no one will benefit from it.


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TV and movies really have a lot of influence and can influence disability policy and perhaps whether you get taxi rides and a comfortable and skilled assistant.


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What is pointless here now is to go personal and claim that I don't realize anything about these things.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 30 August 2018 at 6:38pm (EEST) Names of paralysis and other plegions Yes, there must be some exuberant around here who is perhaps following this conversation.


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Because of my poor state of health, I can't get in touch with anything.


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This discussion is not entirely pointless, because I eventually changed the name and created a new specification page on that page.


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Here, there are enough windmills to fight against.


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Could be the place of his own discussion to chat about articles on lower limb paralysis, quadriplegia, etc., whose names should be paraplegia and tetraplegia, forcibly twisted translation of terms everyone understands in this day anyway.


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Then what do you do when someone creates an article about monoplegy?


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It's quite pointless to change these things.


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—PE-GA-SOS (debate) 24 August 2018 at 2:46pm (EEST) The disease classification uses both, both paralysis and paraplegia.


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If the latter is considered better, I think you can change it.


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Diabetes isn't diabetes anymore, after all.


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Admittedly, it's hard for the people to understand and remember those foreign languages, but I guess that doesn't stop the article from changing the name if the controls are in order.


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—mtt.wiki (debate) 24 August 2018 at 3:05pm (EEST) It would be consistent and clear to use the plegia-ending in every article.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 24 August 2018 at 3:15pm (EEST) —PE-ga-sos (debate) 24 August 2018 at 3:19pm (EEST) If no one objects, you can transfer them from the disease classification to the name you have checked.


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You understand the point perhaps best.


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However, wait before the transfer that the interlocutors can comment.


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PS: en.wikipedia or wiktionary is not the source.


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—mtt.wiki (debate) 24 August 2018 at 3:22pm (EEST) These plegia-ending concepts are so brisk that if they were all forcibly twisted into a better language, we would be in a swamp that cannot be reached.


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—Pe-ga-sos (debate) 15:25 (EEST), 24 August 2018 now names have been changed.


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It doesn't take long for anyone to wonder, then, when everyone is plegia-ending.


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—Pe-ga-sos (discussion) 24 August 2018 at 7:32pm (EEST) What is plegia in Finnish? —Maquire (debate) 24 August 2018 at 7:35pm (EEST) It is a suffix meaning paralysis.


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These different types of paralysis are few at every start, so this is the clearest solution.


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—Pe-ga-sos (discussion) 24 August 2018 at 7:41pm (EEST) Thank you for the information.


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Couldn't be found on the english wikipedia even as a control page. —Maquire (debate) 24 August 2018 at 7:50pm (EEST) I mean what the hell?


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Do we now have an article on cardiac plegia then?


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Well if you want an English wikipedia about this, then let's go with it.


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At the same time, take the Finnish language to follow up the string.


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Iivarius (discussion) 24 August 2018 at 20:13 (EEST) I advised you to take a look at Classification of Diseases.


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I guess heart stroke in modern parlance is merely a figurative word of shock.


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—mtt.wiki (debate) 24 August 2018 at 8:19pm (EEST) And then more analytically: Finnish does not work as a language the same as English (let's just grab Greek and Latin for the lexical language) or even like Russian or Japanese (take a hefty amount of loans from each of the main languages) as such, only sonically adapting them better to the phonotaxis) but even though the lending intensity of the Finnish language has risen somewhat over the last few decades, it is still quite normal in the 2020s that some of the new words come from Finnish professionals development of new words, be they translation loans, wiring or whatever.


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And some of the words come directly from the linguistic community in such a way that even possible quotes adapt to language subsystems.


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There is nothing wrong with the word paralysis, paralysis is just fine Finnish, and there is nothing invalid about it.


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It is certainly not necessary to mechanically replace it with plegia (which is not only English suffix but its own Greek word).


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Iivarius (debate) 24 August 2018 at 8:23pm (EEST) As long as we get rid of the expressions “Vienna” and “potassium” in the Finnish text, then finer nuances can be filtered then. —Urjanhai (debate) 24 August 2018 at 22:30 (EEST) Unless that “plegia” is just the same series, I can't say. —Urjanhai (debate) 24 August 2018 at 10:31pm (EEST) It is not a terribly awesome or automatically supportable idea to start obscuring the names of diseases by changing them into loanwords.


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On the other hand, this is understandable in itself, that there is a clear tendency in real language to try to distance nasty things (such as diseases) by using euphemisms from them, which the quotation loan is less transparent.


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Yet they have the dimension of monk latin affirming the authority of a professional group and making it difficult to understand, so I would not particularly encourage this.


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Yes “X is quadriplegic” is clearer, more linguistic and expressive than the Capular palsy and noun disease “X is a tetrapleegic” or “X suffers from tetraplegia”.


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I also question the generality of the term outside the circle of advocacy enthusiasts.


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—Louhkärmes (debate) 24 August 2018 at 10:34pm (EEST) I suppose it depends on whether laymen or medical and language professionals do this.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 24 August 2018 at 10:37pm (EEST) “Forcibly twisted translation of terms that everyone understands today anyway”.


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Well, I would disagree with this.


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For example, I do not remember the word tetraplegia ever heard, the word quadriplegic, on the other hand, has been received very often in the media (e.g. when there has been a case about Jari Mönkkönen's case).


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E.g. HusKin still uses “general knowledge of quadriplegic paralysis” as the title, so that word certainly isn't obsolete.


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I think this more generic word would be better as the title of the article, although of course you can get to the right article through the redirect page.


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Incidentally, these issues of plegia have been the subject of discussion in the Coffee Room before, at least Wikipedia:Coffee Room (language maintenance) /Archive 40 #Kaikkea would not need to be translated.


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—Nironen (debate) 24 August 2018 at 10:43pm (EEST) Reconciliation presentation The title of the article is what the Duodecim Health Library page is used firmly. —Supercat (debate) 24 August 2018 at 11:38pm (EEST) Finnish designations in general use should always be preferred over foreign language designations used by professionals.


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Even when a foreign-language designation is favoured in professional literature.


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Wikipedia is published for lay people who are not using or unable to learn Latin and Greek terminology like physicians and scientists.


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Moved paralysis articles should be returned to common language names.


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—Savir (debate) 25 August 2018 at 02:34 (EEST) This is the case.


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On Wikipedia, the wee winternoch is small wintering, rather than vinca minor.


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Furthermore, transfers of many articles to second names should be avoided before extensive discussion, which in this case did not take place. —Htm (debate) 25 August 2018 at 08:09am (EEST) Helsingin Sanomat: “Some professions work “bilingually”.


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For example, the expressions used by doctors among themselves are difficult for outsiders to understand, but when a doctor explains it to a patient, the words are more understandable.


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It belongs to professional competence.”


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The Duodecim Health Library shown above, a service for citizens, seems like a good source.


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It is also good because this common language terminoilogy is changing all the time and a new source will tell you what is the preferred designation at the moment.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 25 August 2018 at 08:39am (EEST) Selection of the language version of place names Many places in Wales and Scotland have been inconsistently named here, and the subject has been discussed in many places (see


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e.g., this discussion).


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Many of them are named from behind a few ip addresses with a Welsh or Gaelic name on ideological grounds, or on the basis that, according to some count, of the inhabitants, more than half know the local Celtic language.


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However, places should be named according to what name they use in Finnish texts.


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I have two atlases in Finnish.


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The second Atlas of the Finnish World (Genimap, 2006), according to its foreword, is “an atlas of the world made entirely in Finland, the content of which is designed specifically for the needs of the Finnish reader” and also says that “the spelling of place names in the atlas follows those given by the UN Recommendations” (specification: applies in this context only to place names written in non-Latin letters —Savir (debate) 10 August 2018 at 3:46pm (EEST)).


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My second map Geographica is a translation atlas, but the editorial board of the Finnish language department has a Finnish cartographer and many Doctors and Professor of Philosophy.


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Is it OK if I transfer the articles on Scotland and Wales to the names of that first mentioned atlas in cases where the articles are named in breach of practice?


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Especially if almost all language versions are under another name.


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Or does someone have an even more authoritative atlas at their disposal?


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—Savir (debate) 9 August 2018 at 11:22am (EEST) No map books needed for that.


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Articles on geographical objects should be named in the primary official language of the country unless a Finnish name is used.


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In Wales and Scotland, such a language is English.


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Wikipedia must not become a trickery field for ethno-huls.


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—Esamatti1 (discussion) 9 August 2018 at 11:53am (EEST) How do you deal with regional official languages?


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After all, we write the names of the Swedish-speaking localities in Finland in Finnish, because this is the Finnish wikipedia.


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Instead, in other languages they are in Swedish (e.g. In Tokyo, for example, I do not know if, for example, the countries that are speaking now have their own official languages. —Kirkhakkinen (debate) 9 August 2018 at 12:31pm (EEST) Apparently we have sometimes transferred names like Öjmököön's uluus to the names Oimjakon ulus.


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Probably then it has also been discussed and justified.


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I doubt very much that the justification then would have been any “Finnish map book”.


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- Same with watching ko.


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from the map book the way to the dairy trade.


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There may be some other arguments and could be tried to dig up.


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For example, there was a talk in the other thread about those Turkish place names.


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How do those commas and commas of i go in that finalized map book? —Urjanhai (debate) 9 August 2018 at 12:19pm (EEST) As a linguistic studies student specialising in the social status of minority languages, I would have no matter how much to say about this, but I will start by correcting the arguments made in the debate the most relevant errors.


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Firstly, it is not true that English is at least not the “primary official language” of Wales.


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Wales has extensive self-government and e.g.


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of its language laws, it enacts independently of the central government of the United Kingdom.


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Under Welsh law, on the other hand, the official languages are Welsh and English.


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In some cases Welsh is actually even favoured at the legislative level in relation to English.


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This also applies to place names, at least in so far as there is a law in Wales that on all new road signs and signs to be installed, the text section in Welsh and English must be such that 'the Welsh section is likely to be read first'.


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Case multiplied by mm


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Here: In practice, it means Welsh text and, for example, the place name comes in a line higher than the English name in the sign and with at least the same size font and at least as noticeable color in relation to the undercolor of the sign when written.


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This law is valid throughout Wales, including areas where only a very small proportion of the population are Welsh speakers.


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If the country's own language policy and specifically the language policy on the presentation of place names is like this, it would seem a rather peculiar and ideologically motivated choice to present all Welsh place names in vikipedia primarily in English, i.e. even in regions such as place names with Welsh being the locally majority language and the definite main language of the local community.


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There are areas in Wales, for example County Gwynedd, where the main language of local government is Welsh and where, for example, all public schools are Welsh, i.e. in which all subjects are taught in Welsh except English, which is taught as a single subject, such as we too have a foreign language or another domestic language.


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Overall, Gaelic in Scotland does not have quite as strong a position as Welsh Welsh, but there are areas, especially on the Hebridean islands, where more than half the population is Gaelic-speaking.


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The place names that are currently in Vikipedia in Finnish with a Gaelic name are mainly based in this area, so moving them to an English name would seem an ideological choice disparaging the language of the local population in the area.


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Just in one article on the island of that region, Leodhàs agus na Hearadh is a photograph of a road sign installed by the official road administration etc., welcoming to that island or particular part of the island.


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Each participant in the discussion can take a look at its image with their own eyes and find that it has a Gaelic text and a place name in the upper line and, moreover, with a significantly larger text size written than the corresponding English text.


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Perhaps this says something about the local linguistic conditions and what both the people of the area and the local government consider to be the primary language of the area, and what language place names are the primary names for the staples.


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It should be mentioned that some linguistic scholars who have studied the language conditions of the Hebrides and the Highlands have begun to use Gaelic place names systematically even in English text, probably to emphasise the originality and primacy of staples in relation to English speakers to names: A large part of Scottish place nameshere, both in the Hebrides and elsewhere, is of Gaelic origin, meaning even English names are basically just “misspelled” Gaelic and mean nothing in English, while those who understand Gaelic know immediately, what does the place name mean.


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When you talk about the “primary official language of the country”, then what is meant by that?


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The official language or official languages may be different languages depending on whether it is spoken at the state level, autonomous community level, county level, or municipal level.


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And there can be many formal languages at some or more levels without being able to explicitly define which of those parallel formal languages is the primary one.


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Neither does Switzerland speak the Swiss language or Belgian language in Belgium.


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And even if there was one main language at the state level, even if we always took this official language at the state level as a starting point, it would immediately come to very strange results.


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In Spain, for example, Spanish is the only official language at the whole state level, but several autonomous communities have another official language and in some cases this particular regional language is preferred.


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For example, in Catalonia and Galicia, the only official forms of locality names are the Catalan and Galegonese forms of the Niite, although they would also have existing Spanish forms that can be used in Spanish-speaking but only informal contexts.


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In the Basque Autonomous Community of the majority of place names, only the Basque form is official, even if there is a Spanish form.


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On the other hand, both are official, but the order of presentation of the staples in the official context is stipulated so that the Basque name is presented first.


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For example, the official name of the province Araba/Álava of the Basque Autonomous Community is just such, meaning that it mentions both the Basque and Spanish name, but the order is prescribed so that the Basque name comes first.


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In turn, it has been stipulated for the names of the provinces of Gipuzkoa and Bizkaia that the only official names of the niites are the Basque names of the niites, although there are also Spanish informal versions of the names of the niites.


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As for the aforementioned fear that vikipedia would become “the trickery field of ethno-huls”, then I find this kind of comment very strange and downright offensive.


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It is not an “ethnohihhulation” to present place names in Vikipedia in Finnish, primarily in the language that is 1) the indigenous language of the region, (2) official at the level of regional government, provincial administration or municipal administration, and even in some respects, such as in relation to the name of the locality. , the preferred language of the local government, and (3) in many cases the principal home and/or school language for residents of a region or locality to this day.


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In summary: I always consider the most neutral choice to present the name of a locality or geographical object primarily in the indigenous language of the region.


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I can support this practice even in cases where the regional language does not have an official status due to the discriminatory language policy of the State, but even more self-evident use of the indigenous language of the region should be if the regional government itself clearly favours it and yet more clearly if you are dealing with a locality where the vast majority of the population today speaks a particular language as their home language, goes to school in it, etc. At the bottom of making any other kind of language choice can only be ignorance and infamiliarity with the language situation in the region, or an ideological choice to literally eradicate minority languages from the world map.


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(Jani Koskiin (debate) 10 August 2018 at 00:56 (EEST)) According to Wikipedia, Welsh accounts for less than three parts of the population of Wales and only half of this third use it.


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Gaelic is spoken by 1.2% of Scotland's population.


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So there is no question that English is the power language of both regions.


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The job of the English Wikipedia is not to revive dying languages, and I don't see how to make a difference here anyway.


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User Jani Koskin's actions are ideologically motivated and not based on a real situation.


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What's descriptive is that he prefers to be named Welsh e.g. Buckingham and the Palaces of Westminster.


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—Esamatti1 (discussion) 10 August 2018 at 08:19 (EEST) You should visit the user's “language activism” on Facebook by the way.


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Quite an amusing thing that has nothing to do with linguistics.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 10 August 2018 at 08:31am (EEST) Well yes at least and according to it is, because once the cantuate examiner has been approved at the university.


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Different then what should be wikipedia's policy. —Urjanhai (debate) 10 August 2018 at 09:28am (EEST) I think that any user's activities outside wikipedia are probably not terribly relevant here.


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I myself consider outsized those palace-related examples, since Welsh is the official language only in Wales, or what is its status on the English side?


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But even though Welsh and Gaelic speakers make up such a small proportion of the population, perhaps it should be noted that there is a very regional emphasis on the speakers, Welsh: and Gaelic: I think that it is not quite an unfounded idea that in some cases Welsh or Gaelic could not be the primary name option in those areas where language accounts for more than 50%.


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In Finland, Swedish is spoken only by 5.2%, but we still have a majority of Swedish-speaking localities, and in the case of these, apparently in other languages, the Swedish option is preferred (of course we do not, as we are the Finnish wikipedia).


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I don't have a strong view on the subject, but I think the whole thing should not be categorically torn down just because someone in favour of the cause is guilty of excesses.


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But Stornoway, for example, sounds more natural to my ear than Steòrnabhagh, and according to en-wiki, Gaelic is spoken there by a minority, 43%. —Kirkhakkinen (debate) 10 August 2018 at 09:40 (EEST) It would be nice if the accusations against me even had the facts.


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I have, as far as I recall, never edited an article on Buckingham Palace and when I looked now at its editing history, I found no sign there that anyone ever tried to add a Welsh name to it.


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In the case of the Palace of Westminster, the claim is correct, but please note that I have tried to add the Welsh name in parentheses after the English name, not really the primary name.


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For example, there are reasons for the fact that the name could even be mentioned in that case, which I have mentioned on the discussion page of the article in question, for example that there is an institution in the building, namely the Parliament of the United Kingdom, in which the Welsh has partial official status.


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In fact, Welsh is allowed to give speeches in the Parliament of the United Kingdom at certain sessions, and that right is specifically mentioned in some United Kingdom law.


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But this is a different question than what name should be used as a priority when talking about sites in Wales.


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Naming a language as “dying” is a pretty drastic use of language.


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There is usually talk of “endangered” languages, as the word “dying” suggests that nothing can be done about it and that the death of the language would be necessary, in someone's opinion perhaps even desirable.


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Languages do not die by themselves; the death of language is practically always the result of discrimination.


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When it comes to Welsh, speaking of a “dying” language hits it very badly in the forest, since Welsh is one of the most vibrant minority languages in Europe.


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Although the number of speakers of a language alone does not yet say much about the vitality of the language, it should be mentioned that Welsh has more speakers than, say, Icelandic, which no one should mind calling a dying language.


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And, as Kirkhakkinen's analogy with the percentage of Finnish-Swedes in Finland shows, there is also no point in considering such matters at the level of the whole state or necessarily at the whole autonomous community, because then ignores that at a more local level some small language may be somewhere in the main language.


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In addition, it may be somewhere that the main language of the region has changed in recent history when parents have ceased to speak their own language to their children, but the majority of the inhabitants of which nevertheless have parents, grandparents or great-grandparents who have been speakers of that language and who therefore advocate a conscious revival of language, i.e., empowerment (more recently the latter term has begun to be favoured) in the region and, for example, the preference for indigenous place names.


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In addition, in cases where the number of speakers of an indigenous language has fallen just and just below that magical 50% limit in recent decades (as may be the case with the Steòrnabhagh/Stornoway, for example) you might want to wait a little longer before leaving change the primacy of names.


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If any language has been a local major language somewhere for centuries, then at least I would at least let its original name be primary for a long time before thinking that the language has now definitively been left offside in that locality.


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Many times these localities have different processes running simultaneously, which may swing percentages in different directions.


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For example, language nesting and language immersion type training solutions often aim to increase the number of young people who control the local language, but at the same time, migration from other main-speaking areas to the locality may be rapid and the number of people who migrate from elsewhere will decrease in the number of speakers of the language percentages of locality.


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Is that right, too, to move to the main language name instead of the local language, just because there are a lot of people who have migrated to the locality, although if you count the percentages of those born in the locality or the local area, the proportions Would you be something else?


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As for my educational background, if it needs to be more fed, I have graduated with a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Finno-Ugric Language Studies and am currently writing a graduate.


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It's pretty drastic to start talking about me as a stranger or a person outside this field about me as “a language activist whose business has nothing to do with linguistics.”


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Minority language scholars increasingly see it as their mission to try, in addition to their actual research, to promote the life potential of the languages they study and to participate in the social debate on the development of their status.


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As my now public facebook page has also been referenced and claimed that it has “nothing to do with linguistics”, it should be mentioned that most of my facebook friends who I talk with are linguists and a large number of them already have a much longer career than I, and in the vast majority of things, my own positions are in no way fundamentally different from the ideas of other people in the same field.


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However, Facebook has nothing to do with vikipedia, so what I do there is no argument in any direction in this discussion here.


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As for the argument that my actions are “ideologically motivated”, I reply that promoting an opposing view is at least no less ideologically motivated than my actions.


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The use of the term “dying language” suggests that the person using it really wishes the language to die, and in Welsh, the use of the concept also indicates that the person making the claim is not familiar with the situation in Welsh.


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(Jani Koskiin (debate) 10 August 2018 at 1:43pm (EEST)) Minority languages (and their speakers) are not 'good' and majority languages' bad '.


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The main language is an important tool for the speaker of a small language that allows you to get further away from their own home yard.


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It also allows a bystander to find there in the home yard if the need arises.


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In Wikipedia, solutions should be based on reason and practical needs, not ideological fallacies resembling religion.


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 10 August 2018 at 2:00pm (EEST) On the other hand, small languages are not bad and listable either.


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Therefore, Wikipedia's position in both big and small languages should be neutral.


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I don't happen to have jerks in my own name, but if it did, I would raise a mecca if they were abused. —Urjanhai (debate) 10 August 2018 at 2:13pm (EEST) I don't know about Esamat, but I for one can find a place easier if I know the place with the name written in the most prominent place on the signpost in the area where the place is located.


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And when it comes to a small place, there are no signs to lead there even anywhere outside its own territory, that is, practically all road signs in the world that lead you to it are those where the local name comes first.


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(Jani Koskiin (discussion) 10 August 2018 at 2:18pm (EEST)) Swedish-speakers are also one percent of the Finnish population, and nevertheless there is EN:Karis on the en-wiki.


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Yes, the answer to this must be found in Wikipedia's policies.


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That is, if en-wiki has en:karis then what exactly does it not apply to the fi wiki as far as English compulsions are concerned.


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There may well be, and perhaps there is, an argument for this, but it should be made.


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—Urjanhai (debate) on 10 August 2018 at 09:35am (EEST) of Finland (i.e.


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the Finnish and Swedish Language Boards) own wish for English to be used in English according to the majority language of the municipality, see. —Silvonen (debate) 10 August 2018 at 10:45am (EEST) On the other hand, there is also En:Utsjoki.


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There's probably some justification for this, too.


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These fundamentals in different wikis should therefore be delved into.


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The fact that someone thinks is a “hihhuli” is not justification.


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—Urjanhai (debate) 10 August 2018 at 09:37am (EEST) I think Finnish is narrowly the majority language of Utsjoki.


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That is, there is no contradiction in that, but in the enwiki I think we go according to the majority language of the place.


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—PTG (debate) 10 August 2018 at 09:43am (EEST) I would recall somewhere that in Koutokeino the language of the majority would be Sami.


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In the wiki article, I see that the issue has even been discussed and fought a transfer modification war. —Urjanhai (debate) 10 August 2018 at 09:48 (EEST) On the basis of Norskiwiki, Koutokeino has a pretty clear Sámi majority.


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But I would think that this language issue is the root of one that every wiki has its own constant arguments about.


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—PTG (discussion) 10 August 2018 at 09:55am (EEST) Fortunately, our Finnish wikipedia does not need to participate in that dispute when the locality has a Finnish name. —Kirkhakkinen (debate) 10 August 2018 at 10:00am (EEST) The question is whether the articles are named in a rational way based on reality that meets the needs of the Finnish-speaking reader.


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Or will minority language activists who have slanted their ideology determine the naming criteria for the Finnish-language Wikipedia?


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—Esamatti1 (debate) 10 August 2018 at 10:30am (EEST) When you look at the article that was the starting point of the debate, the Wikipedias that ended up in the Welsh article appear to be: Breton, Catalan, Czech, Basque, livvin Karelian, Occitan and Slovak.


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Bardsey's positions include Cebuano, German, Estonian, Spanish, French, Dutch, Galician, Italian, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese, Russian and Swedish.


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—Urjanhai (discussion) 10 August 2018 at 11:32am (EEST) And even in a few of them the same user is here.


Question: How many local government areas does France own?

Archive 44

—Otrfan (debate) 10 August 2018 at 11:39am (EEST) What are the “needs of the Finnish reader” mentioned by Esamat?


Question: How many local government areas does France own?

Archive 44

A Finn will be interested in reading about such small localities abroad as vikipedia, probably mainly at that point if you are traveling in that area.


Question: How many local government areas does France own?

Archive 44

And when travelling there you will, at least in Wales and parts of Scotland (as I witnessed above), against the signposts where the Welsh or Gaelic name occupies a more prominent place than the English one.


Question: How many local government areas does France own?

Archive 44

(Jani Koskiin (debate) 10 August 2018 at 2:10pm (EEST)) In one of the debates related to this, I remember the UN guidelines mentioned (I will probably not have time to dig up all the discussions in this regard).