Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

During Swedish rule, the focus of construction work had been on Susisaari and Kustaansword, which are considered the most interesting part of the fortress's construction historically.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

On other islands, fortification work had remained unfinished.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

In contrast, during Russian rule, Great Mustaari became the most central part of the fortress, where, among other things, large barracks buildings and a church were built.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[21] During the Crimean War in 1855, Viapori was shelled with cannons by hand from French and English warships for two hours.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

In this case, some of the original buildings of the fort were destroyed.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[22] In 1906, the Viapori Rebellion broke out in the fortress.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[23] Viapori served as the central stronghold of Krepost Sveaborg during World War I.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

The fortress included not only the land front that circled Helsinki, but also sea front fortresses such as Miessaari, Rysäkari and Kuivasaari [24].


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

The period of Finnish independence when Finland declared independence in 1917, Viapori was still held by Russian warfolk, but during the civil war they handed over part of it to the Finnish Reds in March 1918.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

The Whites conquered it with the support of the Germans in early April.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

Suomenlinna received its current name on 12 May 1918, when the red-yellow lion flag, which was temporarily used as the flag of Finland at the time, was solemnly raised to the flag of Kustaanmieka.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[14] [25] Between 1918 and 1919, a large post-Civil War prison camp operated on the islands.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

Of the 10,000 red prisoners in the Suomenlinna prison camp, more than 1000 died of starvation and disease.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

The number of executed was 80.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[26] Later the fortress served as a Finnish garrison.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

After the Finnish Civil War, the Suomenlinna Fortress Artillery was established in Suomenlinna on 7 May 1918, under which the force unit's operations ended on 15 September 1918.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

Due to organizational reform, its operations were continued by the Suomenlinna Coastal Tykisto Battalion from 16 September 1918 to 13 May 1919.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

Coastal Artillery Regiment 1 was formed on 14 May 1919, which operated until 15 September]] 1939.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

Finland's neutrality guard at the beginning of World War II required before the joint exercise to strengthen defences.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

On September 16, 1939, the Helsinki Lohko was formed, what was in force at the time of the intermediate peace, until 4 September 1940.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

From September 5, 1940 to March 27, 1941 was Suomenlinna unit again Coastal Artillery Regiment 1, after which it became Suomenlinna Coastal Artillery Regiment from 28 March 1941 to 16 June 1941.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

In preparation for further war, the unit was also expanded to include coastal forces moderately 1.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

The Coastal Brigade based on the Winter War experiences of the Coastal Artillery Regiments from 17 June 1941 to 31 December 1941, then renamed from 1 January 1942 to 30 November 1944 as the Uusimaa Coast Brigade.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

The unit then formed the Suomenlinna Ränkolfortress from 1 December 1944 to 30 November 1952.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

This was then renamed for the third time Coastal Artillery Regiment] 1 from 1 December 1952 to 31 December 1956.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

Subsequently, from 1 January 1957, the corps unit became the Suomenlinna Coastal Artillery Regiment.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[27] In the 1920s, a Merisotaschool was placed in Suomenlinna.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

In 1921—1936, the Air Force Aircraft Plant was stationed in Suomenlinna.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

The plant initially assembled Hansa-Brandenburg W.33 seaplanes under licence, which were known in Finland as I.V.L.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

A.22 Hansa.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

In 1925, an Air Defence Command was stationed in Suomenlinna, later transformed into a fixed anti-aircraft battery.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

In 1939, the fixed anti-aircraft battery was converted to Anti-Aircraft Regiment I.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

During World War II it was also home to the main base for Finnish submarines.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[28] Until 1948, Suomenlinna could only be reached by written authorisation.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

At that time, the islands were opened to the public for an entrance fee charged by the Finnish Tourist Association, although they were still under the control of the Defence Forces as a garrison.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

In 1972, the fortress passed definitively to civilian administration.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

As the only military facility, the Naval War School remained there.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

The following year, the Suomenlinna Nursing Board under the Ministry of Education was established to manage the islands.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[29] [30] In 1991, UNESCO took Suomenlinna on its World Heritage List.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

Suomenlinna received the Europa Nostra Award for expert and high quality restoration work in 1999.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

In the same year, Suomenlinna was chosen by the provincial government of the Uusimaa Federation as the Neo-Country Village


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[31] [32] [33] In the northwestern part of Iso Mustasaari, there is an archive and museum cavern at the disposal of the Nursing Municipality.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

[34] See also Krepost Sveaborg Bastion System Archipelago Fleet Sources Literature Citation error, replace with {{cite book| author = Väinö Wallin| title = Oriental War in Finland| location = Porvoo| publisher = WSOY| year = 1905}} Citation error, replace with {{cite book| author = Gardberg, C.J.| title = Stone and wood.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

Castles, Manors and Churches| location = Helsinki| publisher = Publishing Company Otava| year = 2002| id = ISBN 951-1-17423-1}} Citation error, replace with {{cite book| author = Sipilä, Petri, et al.| title = Suomenlinna Shipyard before and now| publisher = Museum Agency| year = 2007| id = ISBN 978-951-616-174-0}} On topic elsewhere — Site operated by Suomenlinna Nursing Board Clickable map.


Question: Who built Krepost Sveaborg?

Suomenlinna

(Archives Institute) Citation error, replace with {{cite book| author = Veijola-Reipas, Ritva| title = Suomenlinna Archaeological Survey| publisher = Museum Agency| year = 2008| version = Reports from the Museum Office of Building History 19| id = ISBN 978-951-616-186-3| format = [online version] (pdf )}} * Category:UNESCO World Heritage Sites in Finland Category:Nationwide Valuable Landscape Areas in Finland Category:Key articles of screening


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The M1 Abrams is a primary battle tank vehicle manufactured by General Dynamics for the United States Ground Forces and Marine Corps and entered service service in 1980.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

It is widely regarded as one of the most reliable and advanced tanks of modern times, and there are three different designs of it in terms of main weapon, armour and engineering: the M1, M1A1 and M1A2.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

General information Weapons systems The original designs of the M1 Abrams were armed with a, rifled 105 milli Royal Ordnance L7 anti-tank cannon manufactured by the British Royal Ordnance Factories, known in the US Armed Forces by the code name M68A1.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The Royal Ordnance L7s used on the M1 Abrams were manufactured in the United States under licence acquired from Royal Ordnance Factories, and although the weapon was perhaps the most advanced anti-tank cannon of its own time, it was obsolete when Abrams entered service use compared to other non-US new to the main weapons of tanks.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

On the decision of the United States Land Forces, plans began for Abrams to acquire a new, modern tank cannon.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The US Army eventually awarded a contract with German military equipment company Rheinmetall AG, and the Royal Ordnance L7 was replaced by the Rheinmetall L44, a 120 milli smooth-tubed anti-tank cannon designed and manufactured by Rheinmetall, which in the US Armed Forces is known by the code name M256.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The Rheinmetal L44 has to be manually loaded, which is why Abrams's crew includes four members.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Along with the main, the M1 Abrams armament also includes three anti-infantry machine guns: two 7.62mm M240 machine guns and one Browning M2HB machine gun.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

One M240 machine gun is mounted on top of the tank's turret, and the other can be fired from inside the carriage.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The carriage is also equipped with an M250 smoke grenade launcher, which can be used in an emergency to launch smoke grenades, under the cover of a dense smokescreen created by which Abrams can attempt to retreat from the battlefield.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

M16 assault rifles and M4 carbines are stored inside the Abrams in case crew members had to leave the carriage in the combat zone.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The crew members of the carriage are armed with M9 pistols used by the US military.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

There is electronic hardware designed to support Abrams's armament.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The main gun on the carriage is equipped with an electric firing system and a semi-automatic lock.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Abrams' shooting management system is digital and includes, among others, a shooting management computer, a laser rangefinder, a thermal imaging scope, and various types of sensors.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The carriage also features a GPS positioning system, modern light amplifier hardware and six endoscopic periscopes rotating at a 360-degree angle.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The armoured M1 Abrams is clad in composite armour made from overlapping layers combining steel and ceramic, designed to dampen the kinetic energy of the impact on the carriage so that the layers would stop a projectile launched towards the carriage.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Abrams' composite armor consists of both hard and rigid and soft and pliable materials, which makes the carriage capable of surviving without damage from the hits of as diverse anti-tank weapons as possible.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Abrams has a thin layer of kevlar for armor-penetrating shrapnel, and due to the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction, the carriage is also protected from radioactive radiation and combat gases.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Along with composite armour, the carriage could also be coated with reactive armour elements, but this has never been done in combat situations because, based on specialists and military exercises, the reactive armour elements increase the weight of the carriage.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Development of Abrams armoring was begun in the late years of the Cold War in West Germany, where Abrams were kept in U.S. military bases in case of possible Soviet invasion.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The West German Abrams were coated with additional additional armour to make them as durable and effective as possible against Soviet battle tanks.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

However, the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union proved American actions futile, but later during Operation Desert Storm, the Abrams sent to Iraq were coated with armour made of depleted uranium.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The combat experience of the US from the Persian Gulf showed that due to its armour, the M1 Abrams is capable of remaining operational despite frequently engaging in firefights with enemy vehicles.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The engine system M1 Abrams is powered by the 1500 horsepower Lycoming Textron AGT-1500 gas turbine engine, which gives the wagon a top speed of 67.2 kilometers per hour.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Although the engine is designed and manufactured by Lycoming Engines, it is currently manufactured by Honeywell, which acquired the licence.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Gasoline, diesel, or kerosene can be fuelled by the engine; the US Army commonly uses the JP-8 brand (Jet Propellant 8) kerosene for NATO jets because its price is low and does not easily flare into flames, again improving carriage crew members safety.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The wagon also features an Allison X-1100-3B automatic transmission with four gears forward and two rear.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Abrams' operational range extends to 424 miles.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Although the Abrams engine system has proven to be stable and reliable, its problems include high fuel consumption as well as high noise levels, which is why enemy soldiers have generally been able to prepare for the arrival of a carriage.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

However, the U.S. Army has decided to retain Abrams' current engine system because the advantages of the AGT 1500 include compact size as well as simple construction, making it easy for mechanics to locate and correct engine failures that occur in the wagon.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The wagon has also been tested with the German 1500 horsepower (1119 kW) MTU EuroPowerPack, which has also been used in Challenger 2 and LeClerc.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

According to estimates, a total of 8800 pieces have been produced in different versions of the Abrams wagon, of which the US Army has 7620 in service.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The U.S. Marine Corps has 403 wagons in service, 555 for Egypt, 315 by Saudi Arabia and 218 by Kuwait.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Along with these, Egypt has ordered a further 200 new carriages and Australia 59 used wagons from the United States.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Iraq has ordered 140 carriages, and is aiming for a total of 700 Abrams wagons.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The wagons have also been trialled in countries including South Korea, Greece, Sweden and Germany, where they have not been put into service by the countries' armed forces.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Depending on the wagon model, the manufacturing price of one Abrams is approximately USD 2350000—4300,000.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Abrams can be carried aboard Lockheed C-5 Galaxy and Boeing C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

During the flight, the carriages can be refueled and serviced, so that when the plane lands they are fully combat-ready.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

However, the transport capacity of both planes limits the transportation possibilities they allow, which is why most of the Abrams who participated in the Gulf War were delivered to Saudi Arabia and Iraq in lieu of airlift by cargo ships.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

History The design of the M1 Abrams originated in the mid-1960s, when the US and Germans co-designed the MBT-70 tank, intended to compete with the Soviet Union's new T-72, as well as replacing the then-primary of U.S. Land Forces battle tank, the M60 Patton used in Vietnam.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

However, the project quickly exceeded its estimated cost, alongside which serious technical problems were encountered with the prototypes of the MBT-70.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

When the Germans finally abandoned the project and set about designing the Leopard 2, which replaced Leopard 1, the Americans decided to design and manufacture a new type of tank for themselves based on the MBT-70 to compete with the new battle tanks of other countries.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

In 1973, the U.S. Army assigned design work to Chrysler Defense, and the first prototypes of the wagon were completed in 1976.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The wagon was much smaller, shallower, faster and better armored than the M60 Patton that preceded it, and was named in the 1970s after the commander of US forces in Vietnam, the late General Creighton Abrams.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

In 1979, the U.S. Army passed a motion to launch mass production of the tank.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

2347 copies of Abrams' original base model were produced between 1980 and 1985.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

In 1982, General Dynamics acquired Chrysler Defense and in the process gained itself the manufacturing rights to Abrams.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

General Dynamics introduced Abrams' new M1A1 design in 1985, which was better armed and armored than the original M1 Abrams.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The M1A1 model was produced from 1985 until 1993, when the M1A2, more technically advanced than the two earlier models, appeared in mass production.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

All Abrams carriages currently being produced represent the M1A2 design, along with which, at the decision of the U.S. Army, 1,000 of the original M1 carriages have been modified with repairs to the M1A2.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Gulf War M1 Abrams were not first used in combat duty until the 1991 Gulf War, when it had already been nine years since the tank entered service use.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

A total of 1848 Abrams were transported from the United States to Saudi Arabia, where they advanced into Iraq, countering the old Soviet-made T-55, T-62 and T-72 battle tanks employed by the Iraqi Ground Forces.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

During the ground fighting, the Abrams proved superior in comparison to Iraqi tanks, lacking systems such as the ammunition management computer and night-vision hardware.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The Abrams' firing distance was twice as long as that of Iraqi tanks, which allowed the Abrams to always strike enemy armoured vehicles before Iraqi wagons would have reached their own firing range.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The Abrams proved highly combatable in the war, destroying hundreds of Iraqi tanks and inflicting severe losses on the Iraqi ground forces.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Throughout the war, the Americans did not lose a single Abrams wagon, but some Abrams who came under fire from Iraqi wagons experienced damage requiring repair.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

However, several incidents emerged during the war where the US mistakenly shelled their own Abrams after mistaking them for Iraqis vehicles.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The most serious accident occurred on the night of January 26, 1991, when as many as four Abrams were damaged incapacitated in an attack by a U.S. Army AH-64 Apache combat helicopter.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

A total of 18 Abrams carriages were badly damaged, and of those eight the damage was so heavy that they could no longer have been repaired.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Despite the losses, no Abrams crew member lost their lives, although some were wounded in accidents.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Iraq War Later the United States used Abrams wagons in the 2003 Iraq War, where their operations greatly resembled the Gulf War.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Although with the events in the Persian Gulf, identification plaques had been attached to the Abrams, they were still lost again under fire from their own forces.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

On October 29, 2003, a lone Abrams ran over an Iraqi dock mine, from where the ensuing explosion wounded two crew members and killed a third; it was the first time an Abrams crew member lost his life.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Later, the rest of the United States Marine Abrams was crossing the bridge when suddenly the weight of the tank collapsed the bridge and Abrams fell into the Euphrates River with the result that four Marines were killed by drowning.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

When U.S. troops occupied Baghdad, during urban fighting, an Iraqi soldier managed to fire Abrams with a bazooka into the front engine area of the carriage, causing the engine system to break down and the carriage becoming incapacitated; however, all crew members survived.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Ever since Saddam Hussein was ousted, the United States has lost Abrams in various mishaps and guerrilla attacks by resistance fighters.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

On November 27, 2004, Abrams was badly damaged in a roadside bomb explosion, leaving one crew member killed after being hit by shrapnel from the bomb.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

On December 25, 2005, another Abrams was badly damaged by a roadside bomb, leaving one of the crew members killed.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

On June 4, 2006, two Abrams crew members perished in the explosion of a roadside bomb.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Iraqi guerrillas have also learned to aim with bazookas at shipyards, which, like many other tanks, are also Abrams' most vulnerable point.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

The Abrams are also extremely vulnerable to ambushes.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Abrams advancing alone, for example, is an easy target for a well-armed guerrilla group.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Modern tanks contain a lot of electronic equipment and Abrams in particular contains plenty of electronic aids.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Because the devices are highly sensitive, even a single bazooka or roadside bomb attack can cause significant damage to the equipment inside the tank.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

For example, knocking down a computer controlling the tank's weapons systems, which is very important in terms of operation and fire.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Sources Literature Trewhitt, Philip: Tanks and armoured vehicles, Karisto Oy, Hämeenlinna, 2009, Finnish. Petri Kortesuo ISBN 978-951-23-5145-9 (p. 75) On the subject elsewhere Transclusion error: {{En}} is only for use in File namespace.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Use {{lang-en}} or {{en icon}} instead.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Transclusion error: {{En}} is only for use in File namespace.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Use {{lang-en}} or {{en icon}} instead.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Use {{lang-en}} or {{en icon}} instead.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Use {{lang-en}} or {{en icon}} instead.


Question: How much does M1 Abrams weigh?

M1 Abrams

Category:Battle tanks Category:Key articles of screening


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

As a screener, do you get to accept a good edit with typos?


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

There is no (surprise, surprise) mention of this issue either in the Wikipedia screeners guidelines.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

If I'm correctly understanding, Pxos thinks it's wrong if I accept a good and accurate edit, BUT that contains typos?


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

For example, I accepted a pending change in the article Illuminati, after which I fixed the small errors of the new user, but for some reason while doing this I received yet another complaint on my user page about having done so.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

While waiting for someone to complain about it when I put that new user on the talk page with a Welcome template so that they can learn the Wikipedia guidelines, rules, and policies.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

—Sullay (Relevant?)


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

17 August 2017 at 11:37pm (EEST) There is probably no terribly universal instruction.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

You might want to use discretion and see how the change affects the article as a whole.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

If the added text is given a source and the layout of the article does not break, you can accept the change.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

Correcting singular misspellings is by no means terribly difficult.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

But if the content becomes contrary to sources, the layout is broken, or the added text is completely incomprehensible, the rejection is justified.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

For consideration you should take a moment of time and, if not sure can also not be screened.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

The fact that there are pending changes in the queue is not a world lump.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

—MiPe (wikinät) 17 August 2017 at 11:44pm (EEST) True.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

In fact, now I only realized that when I rejected edits on these grounds, the complaints did not come from screeners or admins familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines; they came from users who have little understanding of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

I really hope Wikipedia's guidelines for screeners are much improved.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

God knows how many new screens are going to make mistakes like this when nowhere does it read how to act in such situations.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

—Sullay (Relevant?)


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

On 17 August 2017 at 11:52pm (EEST) complaints from screeners or administrators familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines... probably due to the fact that edits by regulars or administrators are not only automatically approved.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

At all, it would be intended that new users who, by definition, know about wikipedia's policies or guidelines would continue to edit and become experienced users, so they should therefore be guided with understanding, goodwill and advice.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

—Zache (debate) 18 August 2017 at 06:59 (EEST) Sullay dismisses a huge amount of benevolent edits for unintelligent reasons.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

The point of the industry is collecting diffs for admins to evaluate if the spending doesn't change.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

I wonder if Sullay even noticed what went on the Illuminati page after he “corrected” the edit.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

-kykaarme (discussion) 09:10 (EEST) On 18 August 2017, What kind of good-natured edits?


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

Are these the same benevolent edits whose acceptance and rejection are not at all instructed in the screeners instruction?


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

Are these the same good-natured edits that half of the Wikipedia community complains about if they approve and the other half complains about if they reject?


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

—Sullay (Relevant?)


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

18 August 2017 at 4:07pm (EEST) Well so if I had to advise on screening, then I would say don't have discussions in summaries or comment on anything extra in them anyway.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

It can be neutrally injected into the summaries that the amendment was rejected because it contained typos, but does not inject any personal messages such as “Please learn in the future...” etc.


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

wikipedia:the summary policy page also writes that Avoid using summary for arguing or discussing the content of the article..


Question: When has the impimping started?

Archive 141

From that illuminati article, then I probably would have myself just edited it in order and accepted the outcome and wouldn't have done that rejection in between.


Question: When has the impimping started?

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—Zache (discussion) 18 August 2017 at 4:19pm (EEST) Feeding problems to an individual user is not really part of the practice coffee room.


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Why is it written here?


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—Pxos (debate) 18 August 2017 at 10:49am (EEST) To the question itself: Yes, given the quality level, and you can actually correct typos yourself.


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There is a good rule of thumb in the page review guide: An amendment to an article should not be accepted if it turns out that the amendment contains vandalism; the amendment is a clear violation of copyright; the amendment includes threats, personal attacks or defamation by legal action; or the change is contrary to the Articles of Living Persons policy.


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—Feathers (debate) 18 August 2017 at 1:41pm (EEST) Let's put it here that even in the coffee room it makes no difference whether you accept the edit first and fix the problems that have occurred thereafter, or fix the problems first and then accept the pending changes.


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The end result is the same in both ways.


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—Zache (debate) August 18, 2017 at 3:51pm (EEST) I want to do so that I fix the problems first and then accept.


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On the other hand, problems can also be fixed and approved by changes while saving the fixes.


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The outcome certainly determines, but it is perhaps more beautiful if you fix first and then accept. —Htm (debate) 18 August 2017 at 9:53pm (EEST) How are those options different from each other? —Maquire (discussion) 18 August 2017 at 9:57pm (EEST) As I wrote: 1) fix errors -> saves correction -> accepts pending changes 2) fix + check accept pending changes box -> saves its edits and at the same time upvotes pending changes.


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—Htm (discussion) 18 August 2017 at 10:13pm (EEST) Now I realized.


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Those are as you said, that is, both ok, but accepting corrections and editing at the same time better, but I guess this is talking about a different kind of screening where you first accept the incorrect format and then modifying it, which is not a problem either, but is just an observation that i thought related to it, remote screeners would rather take from editing their stats two screenings than one, but apparently it was just a case of ignorance. —Maquire (debate) 18 August 2017 at 10:36pm (EEST) I am an older person and I take it safe: if I accepted an incorrect format and then something happened to me, it would be embarrassing.


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I mean, accepting the mistake and leaving it.


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Or thoughts can run away somewhere else and fixing is forgotten.


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—Htm (debate) 18 August 2017 at 23:00 (EEST) Well you old are so delirious that you can put that into the spike of age quite naturally. —Maquire (discussion) 18 August 2017 at 11:10pm (EEST) Translation template and license terms Translation of articles from other Wikipedias is very popular.


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However, the original article needs to be reported so as not to violate the license terms and plagiarize the work done by others.


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The translation program automatically makes an attribute by adding a notification to the edit summary, to which it also adds a link to that version in another Wikipedia, e.g.:.


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However, many translate “by hand” and there should be good instructions in this case so that users can be advised if necessary.


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On the policy page Mark sources it says: You can translate text from other language versions of Wikipedia into English Wikipedia.


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However, the translation of the text should be mentioned when editing.


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If the source is any other language version of Wikipedia, please mark it in the edit summary field.


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This is then explained from the template: The article containing the translated text should be marked with the template made for this purpose {{Translation}} for copyright reasons so that the article complies with the license terms of Wikimedia projects (for example CC-BY-SA) This same statement about the template and copyrights are reproduced on the template page and on the Help page Help: Translate articles.


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Neither of them mentions anything about the edit summary.


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It may be that the link in the template meets the requirement of Through hyperlink (where possible) or URL to the article.


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Instead, the terms do not require that the link be put specifically to the template, or that the template be put in the article (e.g., in the English Wikipedia, it is put on a discussion page, nor is it claimed to be a license requirement).


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Using a translation model alone, there are e.g.


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the problem that the template can be removed from the article at some point, while the attribute made in the edit summary is permanent.


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And while other Wikipedias cannot be marked as source, then the template can give a false impression that outsourcing in other language versions is allowed and the article does not need other sources.


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I suggest that all three pages, i.e. WP:mark sources, and Help:Translate articles should be refined so that they emphasize the attribute mentioned in the edit summary and advise how to do it.


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The template instructions are refined so that the use of the template is secondary and can be used, for example, when the attribute has forgotten to be done in the edit summary.


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You can use the template if you wish, but it is important to give the attribute in the summary as no one can guarantee that the template will remain in the article forever.


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For example, if someone rewrites the article and leaves it themselves, then I think it should be acceptable to remove the template.


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-kykaarme (debate) 16 August 2017 at 12:15pm (EEST) I do not support a policy change to the Mark Sources policy if the location of the current output required for the article changes so that sources can be presented in the edit summary.


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And I am allowed to write anything in the instructions, as long as they have at least the content that does not present the other, which is what the Policies that bind us all.


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (debate) 16 August 2017 at 3:51pm (EEST) I apologize if I wrote so ambiguously that the text could be so badly misunderstood.


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However, I think most people understand what I drive behind.


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So not a policy change or a transfer of sources to the summary, but a refinement to the text to make translation articles the attribution required by the Foundation's terms of use better than they are today.


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-kykaarme (debate) 16 August 2017 at 5:34pm (EEST) There was a Bo Lundgren article in my mind (was in the counseling coffee room on 8 August.


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), the Finnish version of which is probably the current “practice”, since it has just been judged to be ok. The translation template appears to have replaced the sources, or the edit summary has replaced them.


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (debate) 16 August 2017 at 6:36pm (EEST) Yes, you are quite right that the translation model is used as a source, although it should not be done.


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Therefore, I would hope that using a template would not be the first piece of advice on that type of question, but rather the user would be instructed to make an orthodox attribute and add the sources for the article.


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-kykaarme (debate) 16 August 2017 at 7:07pm (EEST) I do not take a position on the proposal for a change in practices, but I myself wonder whether there is no longer a need for translation articles in the present day.


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In the past, when sourcing practices were more lax, translation was a good means of producing content (myself, over 10 years ago, I have translated probably hundreds of articles).


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But now that all information added to Wikipedia must have sources, translation from other Wikipedias does not meet this requirement.


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So should guidelines be developed in the direction of writing based on sources rather than other Wikipedias?


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—Jannex (debate) 16 August 2017 at 6:55pm (EEST) A translation article is a valid means of obtaining some kind of raw version, for example, to link to some other ongoing article or current topic when you want to summarize what is at issue urgently.


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Critically, looking at the English article, one can find a ready-condensed nut, which can later be developed.


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You can often find sources there, so that you don't have to wade through long sources of foreign language skills and, in the worst case, misunderstand, as you may notice from time to time.


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But if there is time to sit by Wikipedia from morning to evening seven days a week, then an article based on original sources is, of course, an ideal one.


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—ABC10 (debate) 17 August 2017 at 08:23am (EEST) A translation article does not necessarily mean an unsourced article, as a good translator will also source the article.


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But guidelines should definitely be developed in the direction of emphasis on leaving.


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I wonder if it was time to update the old instruction on the policy page that you can copy sources from another Wikipedia without checking them yourself.


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Some imagine that the sources have been checked on the English Wikipedia and copy the sources (dead links too) directly here, and no wonder when the policy page advises you to do so.


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-kykaarme (discussion) 17 August 2017 at 09:37 (EEST) If you can read through the sources (and understand their content), then you may as well write their own words on their basis, so that it is no longer a translation.


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Translating the article as such is only relevant if you don't bother to consult the sources.


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And even then, it would generally be more meaningful to draw up, based on the foreign language version, just a synopsis of the most pertinent thing rather than translate the full text (I assume ABC10 meant this same in that upper commentary).


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Incidentally, that instruction on copying source entries without reading the sources yourself has always been, in my opinion, the stupidest and most obnoxious practice of the Finnish Wikipedia.


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It practically encourages fake sourcing, which is both counterproductive and dishonorable.


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I think in all contexts the principle should apply that the source should not be labeled something that has not been verified by yourself.


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—Risukarhi (debate) 17 August 2017 at 1:35pm (EEST) I agree with copying the source entries.


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Policies should be changed in this regard.


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J.K. Nakkila (debate) 18 August 2017 at 09:31 (EEST) Perhaps you could start a debate on copying sources, but banning copying altogether could perhaps cause damage.


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For example, the article Something Special has copied the sources so that the citation dates are four years old and in English.


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However, all of those links work, so they are useful for further development of the article, whereas if the sources should not be copied, then leaving the article should start over.


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Ready?


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OK!


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is another article translated by the same IP user in which the sources were copied.


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Two of the links don't work and don't have dates because in the enwiki they don't have dates either.


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From a reader's point of view, they're completely useless, but as practice shows, I guess they're just OK because you're allowed to copy source entries.


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-kykaarme (discussion) September 2, 2017 at 11:54am (EEST) Responsibility for the reliability of the information/source presented in the article with Wikipedia's quality control resources currently in use always shifts to the reader.


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I don't know of a single “edict” in the world (let alone Wikipedia) that everyone abides by.


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That is, the current guidance on outsourcing -In practice is sufficient.


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (debate) 2 September 2017 at 12:44pm (EEST) For useful links that have not really been used as a source, there is a Topic Elsewhere section.


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Or, say, the discussion page of the article.


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—Lax (debate) 2 September 2017 at 1:11 p.m. (EEST) There is little to nothing in the example article linked at the beginning of that example.


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A machine translation left there. —Htm (debate) 17 August 2017 at 03:47am (EEST) I did not select the article because of its content, but simply because its history attributes to the Swedish Wikipedia article from which the translation was made.


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-kykaarme (discussion) I boldly edited all three pages:, and.


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-kykaarme (debate) 3 September 2017 at 21:54pm (EEST) So now there is a policy that you do not need to present a translation model in the article, it is sufficient to mention the translation of the text when editing.


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So how?


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (debate) 3 September 2017 at 11:48pm (EEST) In the same way as before, namely: Translation of text should be mentioned when editing.


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If the source is any other language version of Wikipedia, please mark it in the edit summary field.


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-kykaarme (discussion) 4 September 2017 at 00:24 (EEST) Okay, Mark sources -It is therefore in line with the practice to note in the edit summary, e.g. “The accompanying ones I translated into Finnish from enwiki's article xyz”.


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I will follow in the future, the use of the translation model was unnecessarily complicated.


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (discussion) 4 September 2017 at 10:36am (EEST) The use of flag icons in music articles I have always understood that using flag icons in lists and publication history, for example, is justified.


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Especially finding individual states becomes easier when you have recognizable flags in addition to text.


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A small discussion had arisen about this with @Teakoo here.


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Is there some clear line to this?


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—Roopeank (debate) 4 September 2017 at 12:36pm (EEST) Tickets have been discussed at least in the following locations with additional links to additional central feeds:, and.


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There seems to be no results, but the general line is probably not to be used as perhaps in sports and Eurovisas, which are country matches.


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One standard justification for non-use is that flags are not actually known, but instead the verbal explanation is understood by every literate.


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—Teakoo (debate) 4 September 2017 at 2:37pm (EEST) So can be used for eurovisa articles but not album articles?


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It's silly.


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On the goal ticket, list rankings are presented in a smart and coherent way, yes it belongs in the box.


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—Vilhokki (debate) 4 September 2017 at 3:31pm (EEST) Periodicity of the Administrative Service The discussion below has been moved from a request for comment to Otrfan's activities.


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—EJS-80 21 August 2017 at 11:28am (EEST) So there is no deadline for maintenance?


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Why djävlar is this the case?


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Something borderline now.


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Fixed-term maintenance effective.


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Tar.


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Sonja.poloinen—109.240.87.110 17 August 2017 at 11:33pm (EEST) There is no deadline, these are lifelong like papal posts.


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Although in the Vatican, I think someone already noticed that they could resign themselves.


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— I am therefore also in favour of fixed-term.


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—Kotivalo (debate) 17 August 2017 at 11:38pm (EEST) In addition, in fiwiki, no one has seriously submitted a proposal to switch to fixed-term.


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Thus, the administrator usually ends in inactivity, i.e. when 2 years after the last action under administrator law becomes full or if the administrator himself requests the rights to be removed.


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The Swedish Wikipedia has fixed-term maintainability, so it is a proven system in itself, too.


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—Zache (debate) 18 August 2017 at 06:54 (EEST) Apparently Swedes are always ahead of us.


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I don't think we'd get very much support for fixed-term maintenance with that group of voters above.


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That settled the matter.


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No need for these comment requests every time in the factories like now this one of Wikipedia's most famous users have done.


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(removed irregularities —MIPE (wikinät) 18 August 2017 at 09:52 (EEST)) —86.115.8.19 August 18, 2017 at 08:01am (EEST) If this request for comments already starts to address people's appearance, then let's go too far.


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You're allowed to continue the request for comment just amongst yourselves.


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—Otrfan (discussion) 18 August 2017 at 08:13am (EEST) Yes, there may be more requests for comments from Otrfan as well as Otrfan Activities Part 2.


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(removed irregularities —MIPE (wikinät) 18 August 2017 at 09:52 (EEST)) —86.115.8.19 August 18, 2017 at 08:19am (EEST) KT:Zache to the eruption I could write that has been discussed, even more times over the years, but it has been knocked.Jukka Wallin (debate) August 18, 2017 at 09.49 (EEST) That would be a good message to the administrators that you need to learn how to behave even if they revert to administrators with another ID pretty quickly.


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I have at least three such renewal maintainers in mind, and sometimes a very short life is enough for a token when certain IDs are allowed to run it as administrator.


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—85.76.76.67 August 18, 2017 at 10:35am (EEST) I can't help this if I can change the ID and start editing with another relatively easily.


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We should also be able to intervene.Jukka Wallin (debate) 21 August 2017 at 11:10am (EEST) There is no need to do anything about this, because any registered user can stop editing with their current ID and register a new ID regardless of reason or whether he is an admin or not.


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Of course, the editing history doesn't move.


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Look at Wikipedia:Many usernames #Käyttäjätunnuksen Changing — HTM (discussion) August 21, 2017 at 7:18pm (EEST) What's 2 years?


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The page on Wikipedia:Administrators says: Maintenance privileges will be removed if the functions restricted to administrators have not been used at all for a year.


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Fortunately, our bureaucrats are/are better informed in that respect.


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—Lax (debate) 18 August 2017 at 1:41pm (EEST) A vote has been taken on the fixed-term of maintenance with reasonable seriousness, as already linked above.


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If there was a long time to vote on the subject, the job would start with the thorny question of whether to allow administrators to vote on their own position or exclude them from dealing with their own case.


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Maybe one should first discuss (and vote?)


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on the way the matter was handled... —Aulis Eskola (debate) 19 August 2017 at 7:21pm (EEST) I will also add links to votes on this topic so that they are easier to access: * Wikipedia:Vote/Periodicity of Administrative Service (January-February 2008) * Wikipedia:Vote/Administratorship periodicity 2 (July 2008) * Wikipedia:Vote/Administratorship Periodity 3 (April 2009) —EJS-80 August 21, 2017 at 11:44am (EEST) If the matter goes ahead and ends up being voted, then I hope there will be better preparation than in 2008-09, because at least some of those of votes have been “trampled upright” with equal preparation and care required to generate any random discussion comment.


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The pre-questions would be a good idea to go through first.


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Aulis Eskola brought out one, that is, obstructionism.


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What needs to be resolved is whether the current admins are allowed to participate in a vote on their own position.


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Of course, this has been discussed in the past, but this was when the vote started, because it was first climbed into the crane and it was only in the booth that the water bottle was left down.


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—Pxos (debate) 21 August 2017 at 12:35pm (EEST) Current administrators should not participate in the vote, but yes to the debate.


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They could play a role in being constrained by their own powers.


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As was Mauno Koivisto's constitutional reform in the 1980s.


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—86.115.8.19 August 21, 2017 at 2:26pm (EEST) If the current administrators were not allowed to participate in the vote, then the first thing to do is change the policy Wikipedia:Voting, because that is why they have the right to vote. —Htm (debate) 21 August 2017 at 7:09pm (EEST) “If the vote relates to a specific person, that person himself cannot participate in the vote.”


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Wouldn't that also “If the vote is for a group to which a particular person belongs, that person himself cannot participate in the vote”?


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This issue of obstructionism should not be applied arbitrarily in the style of “If the vote is for usernames beginning with the letter A...”.


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But I mean situations where a meaningful idea of icefulness arises.


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—Aulis Eskola (debate) 21 August 2017 at 20:16 (EEST) The vote does not apply to a specific person, it concerns the change of administrative rights on Wikipedia, regardless of who has them or does not have them.


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There are now 38pc of administrators.


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It is on the one hand a pretty big bunch to be excluded from the ballot and on the other hand the chance for one admin to influence their own position is marginal. —Htm (debate) 21 August 2017 at 8:32pm (EEST) That reading in relation to a small group of active users reflects the power of the group when it gets to decide their own rights.


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—Aulis Eskola (debate) 22 August 2017 at 11:28am (EEST) Innocent administrators are in the number of other active users.


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And after all, among the administrators, there have been public ideas that everyone so mutually modifying should have administrator privileges.


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However, you can't find terribly suggestions and no endorsement for new admins (plus the numerous who have stated that they don't even want to be admins).


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—Lax (debate) 23 August 2017 at 11:30am (EEST) The fact that the Finnish-language wikipedia community has the reputation it has (which actively shuns new editors as a reputation, let alone experience) is not innocent of any active member of the community.


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Iivarius (debate) 23 August 2017 at 11:34am (EEST) So there is no difference between administrators and others (and that was the difference above).


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—Lax (debate) 23 August 2017 at 12:21pm (EEST) More of that would apply to the VLK vote, which is facing.


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Should candidates and members be stripped of the right to vote ko.


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election?


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—Otrfa (debate) 21 August 2017 at 8:41pm (EEST) VLK candidates are not allowed to vote for themselves and that is probably the ultimate purpose of the recusal provisions.


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Extending the ban on voting to vote for other candidates is already going too far past its goal to me.


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Wikipedia, as far as I understand it, is that everyone is allowed to participate and those who edit sufficiently get to vote, exceptions should be sparse and considered. —Htm (debate) 22nd August 2017 at 06:33 (EEST) The deadline would be good, even if I haven't experienced anyone's fuck-ups that are discussed further down the line.


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Good admins are needed because there are a lot of users who need to be put up.


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—Cow Antelope (debate) 18 August 2017 at 12:42pm (EEST) Today there are also many administrators who need to be put in the hands too, so equality is the same. —86.115.8.19 August 21, 2017 at 2:28pm (EEST) I myself have been thinking about proposals for solutions on Wikipedia maintenance activities.


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Here are five measures to monitor administrators' activities.


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There can still be a broader debate about their content issue by issue.


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Those five measures would at least bring some sanity to the actions of the administrators.


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The points could still be supplemented, but controls for administrators would be the first step that would normalize the situation with a lot of calming down.


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Here would be the five measures that would be useful at this stage.


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—86.115.8.19 August 21, 2017 at 10:58am (EEST) 1) .Periodicity for superintendents e.g. 5-6 years.


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The issue can still be voted on regarding the length of the deadline.


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2) .Current administrators maintain rights for a fixed period.


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No nullification of them is necessary.


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3) .Assessment of the entity of the administrator after the time limit has been decided.


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4) .An independent body that would supervise the activities of administrators, which could also be entitled to complain about blockades, the actions of the administrator if the administrator does not comply with the administrator's rule.


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The right to overturn inhibitions against the rules.


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Also, block administrators if there is a clear violation of Administrator action for administrators.


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Mainly HH attacks, etc. A sort of wikipedia mediation board but with expanded powers.


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Which would consist of Bureaucrats.


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5) .Increasing the number of bureaucrats in mediation matters.


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—Comment submitted by 86.115.8.19 (debate) on 21 August 2017 at 10:58am This is the observation that if you want to have some kind of institution to monitor the activities of administrators, it is not necessary to set up one separately, but it is quite possible to extend the existing Arbitration Board jurisdiction.


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Moreover, if there is a fixed-term function to be maintained, then it is also good for the institution to have a fixed-term membership.


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VLK is like that.


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Independence, on the other hand, cannot be better guaranteed than by deciding the composition of the “Judicial Protection Board” by voting on all possible candidates.


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Yeah, VLK is like that.


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Therefore, there is already a panel whose composition and selection procedure are already 'in fine', so that another prequel question (as mentioned above) is whether, in addition to or instead of fixing the maintenance, it is appropriate to extend the existing arbitration board task field.


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—Pxos (debate) 21 August 2017 at 12:53pm (EEST) Your point is exactly what I suggested in those five points.


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But the question is why have bureaucrats and members of the Mediation Board not gone out to make these proposals when it falls within their competence?


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Is there some fault with them or the whole of Wikipedia's power over the hierarchy, starting with the admins?


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The Pxos report and its own proposal in paragraph 5 should actually be taken from this seat.


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That should apply to all current admins.


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The arbitration board should be made easier to deal with matters.


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Requests for comment when they don't lead to any reasonable result nowadays.


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How many times has a comment request made about Otrfan as an example?


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And what were its final results.


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In fact, I believe that the current ongoing request for comments will not lead to any reasonable result, but will drift into the key wiki bar fights between the two users Otrfan and Phiitola. requests for comments have only become a public brawl. —86.115.8.19 August 21, 2017 at 2:06pm (EEST) One viable topic of discussion could be the elimination of fixed-term rights instead of term limits.


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Such a task could be assigned to the aforementioned “board” and then there would be no heavy (annual?)


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vote on extending the term of office of all administrators (as in the swedish wiki).


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In severe cases (the board) could remove yp rights from the administrator for a fixed period of time, either preventively for the purpose of solving problems or as a purely sanctioned measure.


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It is now clear to everyone that Wikipedia currently has a certain, moderately established number of admins (around 40 to 50), of which only a few administrators are subjected to comment requests and deletion votes at any given time.


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It is then necessary to consider whether there is a need for a “comprehensive reform” that applies to everyone, or whether it is sufficient to introduce a procedure that only targets the so-called most brisky fellows.


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—Pxos (debate) 21 August 2017 at 1:05pm (EEST) I understand that VLK already has the option of “limiting administrator maintenance rights for a fixed period”.


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—Jmk (debate) 21 August 2017 at 1:57pm (EEST) To take the matter to the issue of controversy needs the approval of the members of the Board.


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This should be changed so that anyone could take their case there and the board will see what it can do about it.Now the practice is that the Board is the last option for resolving disputes, it should be changed to the first substitute because requests for comment have become generic kicks as now this last Phiitola vas Otrfan.


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Pure recrimination.


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Trump's briefings are more colourful events than the wiki bar brawl between these two users in the public debate arena.—86.115.8.19 August 21, 2017 at 2:22pm (EEST) That too is one good start to reform.


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fixed-term maintainability is better than lifetime.


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It would clear the air and democratize the decision making.


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More power to the board.


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Overall reform is always better than a little fiddling.


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Requests for comment have lost only their original purpose.


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Comment requests from the same user several times will only tell you how easy it is to have them in the factories.


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Like investigation requests to police in everyday life.


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At some point some of them will be discarded.


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It's a waste of time.


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In the Arbitration Board, the users selected there are again.


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—86.115.8.19 21 August 2017 at 2:13pm (EEST) Of whom there is a disproportionate proportion of administrators.Jukka Wallin (debate) 21 August 2017 at 8:26pm (EEST) Would it be possible that the fault could also be in standard users who are in conflict with administrators?


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My ID will be 10 years old in October, and I don't remember any worse worries with the administrators, or at least I haven't missed them.


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On the contrary, despite all the schism between admins, more problematic are surely norm users like me.


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I don't downplay the excesses of the admins, as well as mutual disputes (of which I'm blissfully ignorant), but there's still a bit of a taste of manhunt here.


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Then who should be elected to that arbitration commission if not the marshals, you or me?


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There is probably no need for fixed-term maintenance, but if this is to be monitored, the rules of conduct should be tightened, I suppose.


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It's quite a wild west, but it hasn't hurt the editing business.


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Maybe other people have different experiences, and that's just ok too. —Vilhokki (debate) 21 August 2017 at 8:54pm (EEST) Here, too, the inner circle is pounding.


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But what do you do when the outfit has become very small... —Aulis Eskola (discussion) 22 August 2017 at 11:28am (EEST) If I look correctly, we have 38 administrators, 53 terminated administrators and 3 removed.


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Is the problem now that there are a lot in those 38 that should be kicked away, or is it a one/two with a face that doesn't appeal?


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At least I'm not interested in getting downvoted endlessly on admins I've never heard of.


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Terribly small disputes here are tried to inflate and drag all users into the war effort.


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—Wähäwiisas (debate) 21 August 2017 at 9:47pm (EEST) en wiki this idea has been presented about N times in the last 15 years.


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He has not brought fire under him mainly because votes would become indefinitely recurring shitstorms, especially for administrators who are working to solve their most intractable and long-lasting disruptions.


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jni (k) 21 August 2017 at 10:15pm (EEST) and it would differ from fiwiki's current situation how?


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If you look at the last five years, most of them are just that, non-vanilla administrators (Otrfan, Pxos, Zache) on or off topic.


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Iivarius (debate) 22 August 2017 at 02:50 (EEST) No separate deadline has been defined for maintenance.


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There are more ways to get admin away from the user.


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One of them is passivity (no maintenance actions for a year), the second one's own revelation, the third loss of trust (usually abuse of maintenance actions, but perhaps also inappropriate behavior).


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This debate is apparently about this third, because why on earth would otherwise constant admin votes of all admins be perceived as somehow fairer compared to one admin's distrust.


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I would point out that contrary to what is commonly imagined, maintenance work is heavy and requires strength and composure, and constant voting does not make it any easier.


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Generally speaking, maintenance is much more than fighting so-called gay poop vandals.


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There are, among other things, the investigation of deleted articles for votes, et al. —Feathers (debate) 22nd August 2017 at 08:57 (EEST) if the maintenance work is heavy and demanding strength and composure, why do some people want to do it so badly and why it is being held on until the very last (I'm looking back on a couple of things from the past years).


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Why can't the administrator, when it's constantly in conflict, like Otrfan, say goodbye?


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I know why, but I wonder about Feathers' self-pity and victimization.


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An administrator's job is not a prison you can't get out of on your own advice.


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—85.76.69.15 August 22, 2017 at 11:33am (EEST) I am not advocating.


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This would result in punishing those worst troublemakers becoming even trickier.


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The admins do their job well and at least themselves have never had any problems with them.


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If you ever nag someone a little bit, they do it on the subject and it teaches you better than just stroking your head. —LCHAWK (debate) 22 August 2017 at 09:45am (EEST) I do not support because I do not believe the proposed Policy Change will increase the quality of Wikipedia.


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—ACFCjne Kuopio (debate) 22 August 2017 at 11:53am (EEST) Does this debate now mean that after the deadline expires, the administrator should always pass a new approval vote in order to continue, but otherwise the maintenance could in principle continue unlimited support for as long as there was sufficient support (as, for example, an MP can always be re-elected), or does it mean that after the deadline expires, the administrator should not continue at all (as well as, for example, successive presidential terms are limited)?


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—Risukarhi (debate) 22 August 2017 at 2:08pm (EEST) For the first: After the deadline, the administrator can be re-elected if there is enough support (threshold now 75%).


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—Aulis Eskola (debate) 22 August 2017 at 2:37pm (EEST) If we consider the administrator as a trustee, it is admittedly a little funny that the action is forever.


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In principle, there could be some fixed-term system just fine.


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But I am taken aback here by the motive of this conversation.


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Because no matter how much maintainers can be chosen, the problem isn't getting new admins.


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Periodicity is driven by getting rid of the old ones, or something old.


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When that doesn't work out through comment requests or votes, then let's try this.


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One should think about the terms and practical implementation, debate and fight, vote, vote and vote.


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A big change and a heavy system just because the virtual face of one or two admins doesn't appeal. —Tanár 29 August 2017 at 10:18pm (EEST) I too seem to have these conversations arising either from individual personal chemistry problems or some general anti-authority sentiment.


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If Wikipedia had people trusted up to the queue and there could only be a certain number of administrators at a time, it would make more sense.


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In practice, I find it more useful to keep a proven administrator than to promote turnover for its own sake.


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—Louhkärmes (debate) 30 August 2017 at 00:48am (EEST) Those rotten apples have now been admitted to maintenance and they are now ruining the whole community.


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“Administrators could be changed like baby diapers and for the same reason,” quoting Kotivalo.


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At least once a year.


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If there weren't those shitheads in the crowd, then there might be some sort of trust in “admins” and “maintenance” as a whole.


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Now the administrator is not a trustee in any way, but a full bureaucrat/censor.


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Some phrase, somewhere, does not please its own narrow world view: the whole page delete policy has been working for years now.


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Definitely, I'm in favour of deadliness and an exchange election.


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The maintainer is a clan, everyone votes for each other and each other's opinions are supported, besides there is still a group of brown-tongues who are those administrators service dogs and voting bots, now leaving names unmentioned.


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Change is definitely needed. —Dmitri 152 (discussion) 30 August 2017 at 3:35pm (EEST) A gap year Mandatory, automatic, gap year even if every three or five years could be a very appropriate way to bring circulation to maintenance.


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At the same time, it would bring a feel to the admins of what it's like to edit wikipedia without the rights of the admins.


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You could get rights after a gap year by requesting back in the same way as what it does in enwiki for administrators who have lost their rights due to inactivity.


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—Zache (discussion) 22nd August 2017 at 09:55 (EEST) I think that those selected as administrators have quite enough experience in editing before being elected administrator.


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Basic editing hasn't changed much in the little over ten years I've been here.


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As an administrator or without those rights.


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—MiPe (wikinät) 22nd August 2017 at 09:58 (EEST) I didn't really mean the experience of editing but how it feels to edit when you can't do all the things you as an administrator can and have to ask others for them.


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The second is that how it feels, for example, to have conversations among others.


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with users with admin rights when you are not an administrator.


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—Zache (discussion) 22 August 2017 at 10:07am (EEST) Experience will certainly be found here too, in my case both before the first yp season and a few years between seasons.


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I don't know if I've always taken things wrong when I haven't had a terrible problem with it.


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I do not really believe that this will achieve tangible benefits, and I therefore consider it unnecessary.


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—MiPe (wikinät) 22 August 2017 at 11:42am (EEST) It says “How does it feel, for example, to have conversations among others.


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with users with maintenance rights when you are not an administrator.”


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Wow, that's easy.


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Once you have an edit block, the status clearly collapses.


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That's when you have to try to have different conversations with the administrators and you clearly feel the low position you have to try to shout up the mountain.


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I'm not advocating gap years to build up the experience.


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There are a few admins here who keep those 11 month long gap years anyway and do pro forma removal to keep the rights.


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—Pxos (debate) 22 August 2017 at 12:50pm (EEST) Addendum: Instead, one could try putting all administrators out of office and giving the encyclopedia a gap year for maintenance.


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That sort of thing works for small projects (Wikinews, Wikiopisto), so yes that here too would improve soup and its coincidences.


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—Pxos (debate) 22 August 2017 at 12:54pm (EEST) On the intermission period yet.


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My memory is chicken.


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I took a break from using the yp ID myself and modified the alter until I got experience with maintenance, so there's a feel.


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However, along with the linguistic gimmick, I achieved no less than that.


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So I have a feel for what it is like to be an administrator nominally, who nonetheless has thrown his axe down the well.


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Rip from that (your headline).


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—Pxos (debate) August 22, 2017 at 1:30pm (EEST) Bad Idea.


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At the same able ip address at any time.


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Some of the administrators might also get used to and settle for permanent stewardship as a result.


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However, acting as an admin is essentially an often unrewarding “crap” oven of essentially emptying trash.


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It is remembered that a large number of administrator candidates are proposed by someone else and renewal of rights might actually be forgotten or no longer interested at the end of the deadline.


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There are also big problems with moving to a gap year (“in 2 days I can't delete pages”) and returning from a gap year (“2 days I can delete pages again”).


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There are a finite number of admins anyway that why put some of them on the interchange bench to sit.


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And there is an even smaller pool of active ones than the maintainers combined.


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I don't know how you thought gap years were scheduled, but of course you can't put a gap year on all admins at the same time.


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Quite a table you'd get to crowd out of starts and endings.


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Some of it might throw a hello morot at the point when you hear you “get” on some break, even if it's not really like that a good idea just happened to come up with it.


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—Hartz (debate) 27 August 2017 at 5:19pm (EEST) I agree with Hartz.


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A gap year could cause some admins to quit for nothing, and for the same reason I don't support fixing.


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The technical skills of some administrators would also be difficult to replace, and even vandalism is actively practiced mainly by certain administrators.


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It's good to get between new admins, but you also need experienced users as admins, and there's no reason to take away privileges from them.


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-kykaarme (debate) 28 August 2017 at 5:44pm (EEST) The support percentages One bit strange is that at first the administrator is required to have 75% support, but later can only retain the seat with 40% support.


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Percentages have been criticized.


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—Aulis Eskola (debate) 22 August 2017 at 11:34am (EEST) I believe that more than 40% support should be required to maintain maintenance.


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Even after the election, the administrator should be able to choose the required 75% majority, or at least now a simple majority.


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—Smaug the Golden (discussion - edits - logs) August 28, 2017 at 6:13pm (EEST) Could set up a minus audio list for each administrator.


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Now all the fuckwit is viewed through the fingers.


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10 votes on the roster and YP rights automatically off in the middle of the season as well.


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Functional exchange election mechanism.


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I already give my vote in advance Jmk, Olimar, Otrfan, Nironen, Tanár, MiPe.


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—Dmitri 152 (debate) 4 September 2017 at 4:02 p.m. (EEST) The bouncers at the restaurant would also be able to make a nice turnover with the same system, as the 10 people turned at the door would always “vote” to exchange poke.


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—Jmk (discussion) 4 September 2017 at 4:42pm (EEST) Google Drive link as source reference I almost have time to refute the edit, but I guess I ask if Google Drive links qualify as a source reference?


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—O2081 (debate) 18 September 2017 at 5:47pm (EEST) I do not think there is a single rule, but on a case-by-case basis, you have to look at what is there on Google Drive and if you can get to it.


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to the documentary, by the way, caught


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I think that looks reliable at least by name and could get hold of from some archive etc., so I'd approve. —LCHAWK (debate) 18 September 2017 at 5:52pm (EEST) OK. —O2081 (debate) 18 September 2017 at 6:23pm (EEST) Can you see which entity has added these documents to Google Drive?


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If there is no information about the adder, you cannot use as a source because the source is not reliable.


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For example, misrepresentation of documents and copyrights cannot be ascertained.


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—Makele-90 (debate) 18 September 2017 at 8:11pm (EEST) I clarified it myself.


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Broadcasting has published and are stored as pdf files on Google Drive.


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That is, can use.


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—Makele-90 (debate) 18 September 2017 at 8:18pm (EEST) Kappas, good to know.


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I assumed that Yleisradio would also have published its PDF-format annual reports on its own pages and not anywhere in the Google cloud but always learns new.


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—O2081 (debate) 18 September 2017 at 9:17pm (EEST) There should be more diverse users to the arbitration board, not just administrators Some administrators in the Finnish Wikipedia violate the rules and constantly act in violation of policies, but still the Arbitration Board In 2017, clearly the majority of our community is on the side of voting for the administrators, most likely not knowing that some of the admins on the ballot have seriously violated Wikipedia's policies, even more than once.


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I strongly believe that as diverse users as diverse as possible would be needed to get the most impartial and correct decision on the arbitration board.


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This is shared by our bureaucrat Ejs-80, among other things, who suggested me for the arbitration board vote, even though I am not the administrator.


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He too thinks versatility would be good to have on the arbitration board.


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Should the arbitration board votes take the policy in future, say, that no more than five administrators could be elected to the arbitration board?


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This would mean that at least five arbitration board users would be, among other things, screeners, returners, or, say, only auto-screened users with knowledge of the policies.


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What do you guys think about this?


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—Sullay (Relevant?)


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21 September 2017 at 5:51pm (EEST) Two non-administrators (Htm and Tappinen) will be selected and the continuing members will also have two non-administrators (Elf and Ukas), so that 50-50 situation is pretty close.


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Confrontation in itself pointless.


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The administrators (including those who are now nominated for the Board) have very different users.


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And at least I don't personally feel that admin precludes judging the actions of other administrators in an impartial manner.


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—Nironen (debate) 21 September 2017 at 6:32pm (EEST) I would see that when non-administrators are available as candidates, the community will be able to say their opinion when voting.


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If that community votes to board administrators, then how plausible is it that that same community would push through a policy change to prevent itself from voting on the board administrators?


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— The proposal's justification also invokes violations of Wikipedia's policies on serious and multiple occasions.


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That's a pretty brisk accusation when it's unjustifiably thrown into that small group of nominated administrators.


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But without addressing that further, I would point out that if anyone has violated the policies, it has not been considered an obstacle to standing for election — this applies equally to non-administrators.


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Even those who have multiple inhibitions can be nominated.


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It's up to the voters to determine what kind of people they want on that board.


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—Jmk (debate) 21 September 2017 at 21:47pm (EEST) And the condition is, if I correctly calculate, 8 administrators and 6 others, so there is a choice.


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—Jmk (debate) 21 September 2017 at 21:55pm (EEST) Names given to men and women by the Population Register Centre name service Many Finnish Wikipedia first name articles have indicated how many Finnish men/women have the name.


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For example, in the article Maria reads “In Finland, 361,867 people have been enrolled in Finland by the end of 2009, 307 of whom are men.” The source is that Population Register Centre name service.


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The problem with these is that those numbers change with transgender people first changing their names and then (sometimes years later, because the process requires lengthy medical examinations, sometimes never) their official gender.


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I know this because I know a transgender person who took a relatively rare female name.


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Then a “man” suddenly appeared in that name service, who had received that woman's name (and was born with the correct yearling).


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Later, she was allowed to change her official gender to a woman in the population register, causing the man with that name to disappear from the name service, and there was one more in the number of women born on the same yearling.


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Based on this, I find it stupid to say e.g. “the name Minea has been given to 2,867 women and at least two men” when those “men” are likely trans women who have adopted the name themselves.


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Will anyone object if these exact gender information about names starts to be weeded out? —Fotogurachan (debate) 22 September 2017 at 01:47am (EEST) I have so far considered those figures to be 'interesting trivia', but on the grounds you mentioned, noi can be removed.


Question: When is the impping started?

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In some unisex names, noi amounts might be worth mentioning if they are found in both genders fairly.


Question: When is the impping started?

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In traditional Finnish names, I don't think the witch is terribly found, but I would assume that English names like Taylor or Alex would be found in both sexes today.


Question: When is the impping started?

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Seeggesup?


Question: When is the impping started?

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22 September 2017 at 02:25 (EEST) Interesting trivia yes.


Question: When is the impping started?

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-Currently, the oldest Finnish surviving persons were born 1908 and belong to the group 1900-1919 in VRK statistics.


Question: When is the impping started?

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There are 433 copies of men born after this birth year group who have been given the name Maria (or whose name is Maria if the name has been changed on their own initiative at a later date).


Question: When is the impping started?

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How would you change the text for Maria or change at all?


Question: When is the impping started?

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Some of the male Marios in Finland may probably be Marias who grew up with a strong Catholic tradition or named Marias who are not transgender.


Question: When is the impping started?

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I would not remove the distinction, but it should be expressed that it is people born at different intervals who have had the name Maria at the time of statistics (whether given or taken).


Question: When is the impping started?

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Own research shouldn't be pursued, at least. —Htm (discussion) 22 September 2017 at 02:42 (EEST) Of course, the articles do not put their own research.


Question: When is the impping started?

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I would simply leave out the part “307 of whom are men” from the text, because I think it is misleading to give such an accurate figure of the “men” who have received the name, some of whom are trans women, and may yet move to that side in the population register as well. —Fotogurachan (debate) 22 September 2017 at 02:56am (EEST) The exact distribution is nipple data that may or may not be of interest.


Question: When is the impping started?

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There's other nipple information here and on the front page still “Did you know that..” department.


Question: When is the impping started?

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Name bearers, broken down by year of birth, do not need to be updated very often (because there are a lot of names).


Question: When is the impping started?

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Of course, you can search the VRK name service itself, and you don't need Wikipedia for that.


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Trivia advocates would probably like the data to remain, having once added it to articles.


Question: When is the impping started?

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The information is outsourced, I'm not advocating a systematic qualifying campaign. —Htm (debate) 22 September 2017 at 03:35am (EEST) That trangender is such a small problem that if the N of both genders is anything above five, I would definitely put it on view.