[ { "topic_list": [ { "topic": "Current XML format to link up different components in data", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "19", "89" ] ] }, { "topic": "Best way to store features", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "90", "197" ] ] }, { "topic": "Exploring NIST's ATLAS as a potential storage format", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "198", "460" ] ] }, { "topic": "Disadvantages of ATLAS and other options", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "463", "594" ] ] }, { "topic": "Handling annotations", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "595", "760" ] ] } ], "general_query_list": [ { "query": "Summarize the whole meeting", "answer": "Meeting participants wanted to agree upon a standard database to link up different components of the transcripts. The current idea was to use an XML script, but it quickly seemed that other options, like a pfile or ATLAS, are more suitable. The reason being that they would make it easier to deal with different linguistic units, like frames and utterances. Eventually, the team was skeptical of using something that would be hard to learn, like ATLAS. Nonetheless, they wanted to explore their options. The meeting finished with some discussion about handling annotations." } ], "specific_query_list": [ { "query": "Summarize the discussion about the current XML format to link up different components in data", "answer": "C developed an XML format that links together utterances based on time tags, essentially creating a lattice. The XML format would be divided into many sections, each with its own ID and timeline tag. The XML format could be modified to deal with smaller linguistic units since that would only entail changing the timestamps. Despite being easy to use, the format was not efficient for smaller linguistic units, like phones. It would work for word units, at best.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "19", "89" ] ] }, { "query": "What did F think about the current XML format to link up different components in data?", "answer": "F was concerned about how the time labels would adjust to smaller phonetic units. F inquired if the time boundaries could be changed by propagating new information throughout the XML. F thought that they could configure different XML files to deal with different units, but it would lead to large file sizes.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "51", "87" ] ] }, { "query": "What did A think about the current XML format to link up different components in data?", "answer": "A had seen an example of this kind of XML format before. A thought that the time boundaries were nicely handled but believed that smaller linguistic units would drain too much memory. It was essentially like a lattice, in his opinion. Though, A did not seem too concerned with dealing with smaller linguistic units since the problem would not be encountered frequently.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "56", "77" ] ] }, { "query": "Summarize the discussion about the disadvantages of ATLAS and other options", "answer": "Since the team is familiar with Perl and a flat file format is easier, it was suggested that the cost of learning a new framework, like ATLAS, might be too high. It was suggested that ATLAS be used for the external file representation initially, and if it seems suitable, then it should be adopted in its entirety. P files were also discussed but the problem with them was that they could still get pretty big.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "463", "594" ] ] }, { "query": "What did C think about the disadvantages of ATLAS and other options?", "answer": "C thought that other options have a big learning curve, which should be taken into account, and that a flat format works well. A flat file format may not be fast, but everyone can handle it. C believed that quick and dirty solutions should be balanced with long-term infrastructural solutions. For instance, Perl can be paired with external representations of ATLAS files to create a working system. C also suggested that alternatives to P files might be interesting too, though the disadvantage would, once again, be the learning curve.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "463", "474" ], [ "492", "498" ], [ "530", "545" ] ] }, { "query": "What did F think about the disadvantages of ATLAS and other options?", "answer": "F wanted to ensure that prosodic features could be dealt with at the level of small linguistic units. F proposed that they be attached to the word or segment level with the option of extracting smaller units. This would allow the team to keep what they have without starting over.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "484", "495" ] ] } ], "meeting_transcripts": [ { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , we had a long discussion about how much w how easy we want to make it for people to bleep things out . So {disfmarker} Morgan wants to make it hard ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "It {disfmarker} it doesn't {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Did {disfmarker} did {disfmarker} did it {disfmarker} ? I didn't even check yesterday whether it was moving ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "It didn't move yesterday either when I started it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "So I don't know if it doesn't like both of us {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Channel three ? Channel three ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "You know , I discovered something yesterday on these , um , wireless ones ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Channel two ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "You can tell if it 's picking up {pause} breath noise and stuff ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , it has a little indicator on it {disfmarker} on the AF ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Mm - hmm . So if you {disfmarker} yeah , if you breathe under {disfmarker} breathe and then you see AF go off , then you know {pause} it 's p picking up your mouth noise ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Oh , that 's good . Cuz we have a lot of breath noises ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep . Test ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "In fact , if you listen to just the channels of people not talking , it 's like \" @ @ \" . It 's very disgust" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "What ? Did you see Hannibal recently or something ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Sorry . Exactly . It 's very disconcerting . OK . So , um ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I was gonna try to get out of here , like , in half an hour , um , cuz I really appreciate people coming , and {vocalsound} the main thing that I was gonna ask people to help with today is {pause} to give input on what kinds of database format we should {pause} use in starting to link up things like word transcripts and annotations of word transcripts , so anything that transcribers or discourse coders or whatever put in the signal , {vocalsound} with time - marks for , like , words and phone boundaries and all the stuff we get out of the forced alignments and the recognizer . So , we have this , um {disfmarker} I think a starting point is clearly the {disfmarker} the channelized {pause} output of Dave Gelbart 's program , which Don brought a copy of ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Yeah , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm familiar with that . I mean , we {disfmarker} I sort of already have developed an XML format for this sort of stuff ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "um , which {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Can I see it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And so the only question {disfmarker} is it the sort of thing that you want to use or not ? Have you looked at that ? I mean , I had a web page up ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right . So ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I actually mostly need to be able to link up , or {disfmarker} I it 's {disfmarker} it 's a question both of what the representation is and {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You mean , this {disfmarker} I guess I am gonna be standing up and drawing on the board ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK , yeah . So you should , definitely ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , so {disfmarker} so it definitely had that as a concept . So tha it has a single time - line ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and then you can have lots of different sections , each of which have I Ds attached to it , and then you can refer from other sections to those I Ds , if you want to . So that , um {disfmarker} so that you start with {disfmarker} with a time - line tag . \" Time - line \" . And then you have a bunch of times . I don't e I don't remember exactly what my notation was ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh , I remember seeing an example of this ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "but it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right , right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , \" T equals one point three two \" , uh {disfmarker} And then I {disfmarker} I also had optional things like accuracy , and then \" ID equals T one , uh , one seven \" . And then , {nonvocalsound} I also wanted to {disfmarker} to be i to be able to not specify specifically what the time was and just have a stamp ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , so these are arbitrary , assigned by a program , not {disfmarker} not by a user . So you have a whole bunch of those . And then somewhere la further down you might have something like an utterance tag which has \" start equals T - seventeen , end equals T - eighteen \" . So what that 's saying is , we know it starts at this particular time . We don't know when it ends ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ? But it ends at this T - eighteen , which may be somewhere else . We say there 's another utterance . We don't know what the t time actually is but we know that it 's the same time as this end time ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You know , thirty - eight , whatever you want ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So you 're essentially defining a lattice ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . Yes , exactly ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And then , uh {disfmarker} and then these also have I Ds . Right ? So you could {disfmarker} you could have some sort of other {disfmarker} other tag later in the file that would be something like , um , oh , I don't know , {comment} uh , {nonvocalsound} \" noise - type equals {nonvocalsound} door - slam \" . You know ? And then , uh , {nonvocalsound} you could either say \" time equals a particular time - mark \" or you could do other sorts of references . So {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or you might have a prosody {disfmarker} \" Prosody \" right ? D ? T ? D ? T ? T ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "It 's an O instead of an I , but the D is good ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You like the D ? That 's a good D ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , you know , so you could have some sort of type here , and then you could have , um {disfmarker} the utterance that it 's referring to could be U - seventeen or something like that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . So , I mean , that seems {disfmarker} that seems g great for all of the encoding of things with time and ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Oh , well ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "um {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I guess my question is more , uh , what d what do you do with , say , a forced alignment ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "How - how" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean you 've got all these phone labels , and what do you do if you {disfmarker} just conceptually , if you get , um , transcriptions where the words are staying but the time boundaries are changing , cuz you 've got a new recognition output , or s sort of {disfmarker} what 's the , um , sequence of going from the waveforms that stay the same , the transcripts that may or may not change , and then the utterance which {disfmarker} where the time boundaries that may or may not change {disfmarker} ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh , that 's {disfmarker} That 's actually very nicely handled here because you could {disfmarker} you could {disfmarker} all you 'd have to change is the , {vocalsound} um , time - stamps in the time - line without {disfmarker} without , uh , changing the I Ds ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Um . And you 'd be able to propagate all of the {disfmarker} the information ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right . That 's , the who that 's why you do that extra level of indirection . So that you can just change the time - line ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Except the time - line is gonna be huge . If you say {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "suppose you have a phone - level alignment ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "yeah , especially at the phone - level ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You 'd have {disfmarker} you 'd have {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "The {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we have phone - level backtraces ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , this {disfmarker} I don't think I would do this for phone - level . I think for phone - level you want to use some sort of binary representation" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "because it 'll be too dense otherwise ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . So , if you were doing that and you had this sort of companion , uh , thing that gets called up for phone - level , uh , what would that look like ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Why" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I would use just an existing {disfmarker} an existing way of doing it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "How would you {disfmarker} ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mmm . But {disfmarker} but why not use it for phone - level ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "H h" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "It 's just a matter of {disfmarker} it 's just a matter of it being bigger . But if you have {disfmarker} you know , barring memory limitations , or uh {disfmarker} I w I mean this is still the m" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's parsing limitations . I don't want to have this text file that you have to read in the whole thing to do something very simple for ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh , no . You would use it only {pause} for {pause} purposes where you actually want the phone - level information , I 'd imagine ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So you could have some file that configures how much information you want in your {disfmarker} in your XML or something ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right . I mean , you 'd {disfmarker} y" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Um ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I {disfmarker} I am imagining you 'd have multiple versions of this depending on the information that you want ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "cuz th it does get very bush with {disfmarker} Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , I 'm just {disfmarker} what I 'm wondering is whether {disfmarker} I think for word - level , this would be OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "For word - level , it 's alright ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah . Definitely ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "For lower than word - level , you 're talking about so much data that I just {disfmarker} I don't know . I don't know if that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , we actually have {disfmarker} So , one thing that Don is doing , is we 're {disfmarker} we 're running {disfmarker} For every frame , you get a pitch value ," }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Lattices are big , too ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "and not only one pitch value but different kinds of pitch values" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , I mean , for something like that I would use P - file" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "depending on {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "or {disfmarker} or any frame - level stuff I would use P - file ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Meaning {disfmarker} ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Uh , that 's a {disfmarker} well , or something like it . It 's ICS uh , ICSI has a format for frame - level representation of features . Um ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . That you could call {disfmarker} that you would tie into this representation with like an ID ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right . Right . Or {disfmarker} or there 's a {disfmarker} there 's a particular way in XML to refer to external resources ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And {disfmarker} OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So you would say \" refer to this external file \" . Um , so that external file wouldn't be in {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So that might {disfmarker} that might work ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "But what {disfmarker} what 's the advantage of doing that versus just putting it into this format ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "More compact , which I think is {disfmarker} is better ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Uh - huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , if you did it at this {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean these are long meetings and with {disfmarker} for every frame ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You don't want to do it with that {disfmarker} Anything at frame - level you had better encode binary" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "or it 's gonna be really painful ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Or you just compre I mean , I like text formats . Um , b you can always , uh , G - zip them , and , um , you know , c decompress them on the fly if y if space is really a concern ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Yeah , I was thi I was thinking the advantage is that we can share this with other people ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , but if you 're talking about one per frame , you 're talking about gigabyte - size files . You 're gonna actually run out of space in your filesystem for one file ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "These are big files . These are really {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ? Because you have a two - gigabyte limit on most O Ss ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right , OK . I would say {disfmarker} OK , so frame - level is probably not a good idea . But for phone - level stuff it 's perfectly {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And th it 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Like phones , or syllables , or anything like that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Phones are every five frames though , so . Or something like that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but most of the frames are actually not speech . So , you know , people don't {disfmarker} v Look at it , words times the average {disfmarker} The average number of phones in an English word is , I don't know , {comment} five maybe ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah , but we actually {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So , look at it , t number of words times five . That 's not {disfmarker} that not {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Oh , so you mean pause phones take up a lot of the {disfmarker} long pause phones ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Exactly ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah . OK . That 's true . But you do have to keep them in there . Y yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So I think it {disfmarker} it 's debatable whether you want to do phone - level in the same thing ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But I think , a anything at frame - level , even P - file , is too verbose ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I would use something tighter than P - files ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Do you {disfmarker} Are you familiar with it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I haven't seen this particular format ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I mean , I 've {disfmarker} I 've used them ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I don't know what their structure is ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I 've forgot what the str" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "But , wait a minute , P - file for each frame is storing a vector of cepstral or PLP values ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's whatever you want , actually ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "right ? Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So that {disfmarker} what 's nice about the P - file {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} i Built into it is the concept of {pause} frames , utterances , sentences , that sort of thing , that structure . And then also attached to it is an arbitrary vector of values . And it can take different types ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So it {disfmarker} th they don't all have to be floats . You know , you can have integers and you can have doubles , and all that sort of stuff ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So that {disfmarker} that sounds {disfmarker} that sounds about what I w" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um . Right ? And it has a header {disfmarker} it has a header format that {pause} describes it {pause} to some extent . So , the only problem with it is it 's actually storing the {pause} utterance numbers and the {pause} frame numbers in the file , even though they 're always sequential . And so it does waste a lot of space ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But it 's still a lot tighter than {disfmarker} than ASCII . And we have a lot of tools already to deal with it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "You do ? OK . Is there some documentation on this somewhere ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , there 's a ton of it . Man - pages and , uh , source code , and me ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK , great . So , I mean , that sounds good . I {disfmarker} I was just looking for something {disfmarker} I 'm not a database person , but something sort of standard enough that , you know , if we start using this we can give it out , other people can work on it ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , it 's not standard ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "or {disfmarker} {comment} Is it {disfmarker} ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , it 's something that we developed at ICSI . But , uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But it 's {pause} been used here" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But it 's been used here" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "and people 've {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and {disfmarker} and , you know , we have a {pause} well - configured system that you can distribute for free , and {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "I mean , it must be the equivalent of whatever you guys used to store feat your computed features in , right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah , th we have {disfmarker} Actually , we {disfmarker} we use a generalization of the {disfmarker} the Sphere format ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Um , but {disfmarker} Yeah , so there is something like that but it 's , um , probably not as sophist" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , what does H T K do for features ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "And I think there 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Or does it even have a concept of features ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "They ha it has its own {disfmarker} I mean , Entropic has their own feature format that 's called , like , S - SD or some so SF or something like that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I 'm just wondering , would it be worth while to use that instead ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah . Th - this is exactly the kind of decision {disfmarker} It 's just whatever {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "But , I mean , people don't typically share this kind of stuff , right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "They generate their own ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "I mean {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Actually , I {disfmarker} I just {disfmarker} you know , we {disfmarker} we 've done this stuff on prosodics and three or four places have asked for those prosodic files , and we just have an ASCII , uh , output of frame - by - frame ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Ah , right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Which is fine , but it gets unwieldy to go in and {disfmarker} and query these files with really huge files ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , we could do it . I was just thinking if there 's something that {disfmarker} where all the frame values are {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And a and again , if you have a {disfmarker} if you have a two - hour - long meeting , that 's gonna {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Hmm ? They 're {disfmarker} they 're fair they 're quite large ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , I mean , they 'd be emo enormous ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And these are for ten - minute Switchboard conversations ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "and {disfmarker} So it 's doable , it 's just that you can only store a feature vector at frame - by - frame and it doesn't have any kind of ," }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Is {disfmarker} is the sharing part of this a pretty important {pause} consideration" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "or does that just sort of , uh {disfmarker} a nice thing to have ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I {disfmarker} I don't know enough about what we 're gonna do with the data . But I thought it would be good to get something that we can {disfmarker} that other people can use or adopt for their own kinds of encoding . And just , I mean we have to use some we have to make some decision about what to do ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And especially for the prosody work , what {disfmarker} what it ends up being is you get features from the signal , and of course those change every time your alignments change . So you re - run a recognizer , you want to recompute your features , um , and then keep the database up to date ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Or you change a word , or you change a {vocalsound} utterance boundary segment , which is gonna happen a lot . And so I wanted something where {pause} all of this can be done in a elegant way and that if somebody wants to try something or compute something else , that it can be done flexibly . Um , it doesn't have to be pretty , it just has to be , you know , easy to use , and {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , the other thing {disfmarker} We should look at ATLAS , the NIST thing ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and see if they have anything at that level ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , I 'm not sure what to do about this with ATLAS , because they chose a different route . I chose something that {disfmarker} Th - there are sort of two choices . Your {disfmarker} your file format can know about {disfmarker} know that you 're talking about language {pause} and speech , which is what I chose , and time , or your file format can just be a graph representation . And then the application has to impose the structure on top . So what it looked like ATLAS chose is , they chose the other way , which was their file format is just nodes and links , and you have to interpret what they mean yourself ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And why did you not choose that type of approach ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Uh , because I knew that we were doing speech , and I thought it was better if you 're looking at a raw file to be {disfmarker} t for the tags to say \" it 's an utterance \" , as opposed to the tag to say \" it 's a link \" ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So , but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But other than that , are they compatible ? I mean , you could sort of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , they 're reasonably compatible ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , you {disfmarker} you could {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "You could probably translate between them ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah , that 's w So ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So , well , the other thing is if we choose to use ATLAS , which maybe we should just do , we should just throw this out before we invest a lot of time in it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . I don't {disfmarker} So this is what the meeting 's about ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "just sort of how to {disfmarker} Um , cuz we need to come up with a database like this just to do our work . And I actually don't care , as long as it 's something useful to other people , what we choose ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So maybe it 's {disfmarker} maybe oth you know , if {disfmarker} if you have any idea of how to choose , cuz I don't ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The only thing {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Do they already have tools ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , I {disfmarker} I chose this for a couple reasons . One of them is that it 's easy to parse . You don't need a full XML parser . It 's very easy to just write a Perl script {pause} to parse it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "As long as uh each tag is on one line ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Exactly . Exactly . Which I always do ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And you can have as much information in the tag as you want , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , I have it structured . Right ? So each type tag has only particular items that it can take ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Can you {disfmarker} But you can add to those structures if you {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sure . If you have more information . So what {disfmarker} What NIST would say is that instead of doing this , you would say something like \" link {nonvocalsound} start equals , um , you know , some node ID ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah . So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "end equals some other node ID \" , and then \" type \" would be \" utterance \" ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You know , so it 's very similar ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So why would it be a {disfmarker} a waste to do it this way if it 's similar enough that we can always translate it ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "It probably wouldn't be a waste . It would mean that at some point if we wanted to switch , we 'd just have to translate everything ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Write a translator . But it se Since they are developing a big {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But it {disfmarker} but that sounds {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "But that 's {disfmarker} I don't think that 's a big deal ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "As long as it is {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "they 're developing a big infrastructure . And so it seems to me that if {disfmarker} if we want to use that , we might as well go directly to what they 're doing , rather than {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "If we want to {disfmarker} Do they already have something that 's {disfmarker} that would be useful for us in place ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Yeah . See , that 's the question . I mean , how stable is their {disfmarker} Are they ready to go ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The {disfmarker} I looked at it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "or {disfmarker} ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The last time I looked at it was a while ago , probably a year ago , uh , when we first started talking about this ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And at that time at least {vocalsound} it was still not very {pause} complete . And so , specifically they didn't have any external format representation at that time . They just had the sort of conceptual {pause} node {disfmarker} uh , annotated transcription graph , which I really liked . And that 's exactly what this stuff is based on . Since then , they 've developed their own external file format , which is , uh , you know , this sort of s this sort of thing . Um , and apparently they 've also developed a lot of tools , but I haven't looked at them . Maybe I should ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "We should {disfmarker} we should find out ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , would the tools {disfmarker} would the tools run on something like this , if you can translate them anyway ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , th what would {disfmarker} would {disfmarker} would {disfmarker} what would worry me is that maybe we might miss a little detail" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "It 's a hassle" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , that {disfmarker} I guess it 's a question that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "if {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "uh , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "that would make it very difficult to translate from one to the other ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I {disfmarker} I think if it 's conceptually close , and they already have or will have tools that everybody else will be using , I mean , {vocalsound} it would be crazy to do something s you know , separate that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , we might as well . Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll take a closer look at it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Actually , so it 's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that would really be the question , is just what you would feel is in the long run the best thing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And {disfmarker} Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Cuz {vocalsound} once we start , sort of , doing this I don't {disfmarker} we don't actually have enough time to probably have to rehash it out again" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The {disfmarker} Yep . The other thing {disfmarker} the other way that I sort of established this was as easy translation to and from the Transcriber format ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "and {disfmarker} s Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , I like this . This is sort of intuitively easy to actually r read ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "as easy it could {disfmarker} as it could be . But , I suppose that {pause} as long as they have a type here that specifies \" utt \" , um ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's almost the same ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "it 's {disfmarker} yeah , close enough that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the point is {disfmarker} with this , though , is that you can't really add any supplementary information . Right ? So if you suddenly decide that you want {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "You have to make a different type ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . You 'd have to make a different type ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So {disfmarker} Well , if you look at it and {disfmarker} Um , I guess in my mind I don't know enough {disfmarker} Jane would know better , {comment} about the {pause} types of annotations and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} But I imagine that those are things that would {disfmarker} well , you guys mentioned this , {comment} that could span any {disfmarker} it could be in its own channel , it could span time boundaries of any type ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "it could be instantaneous , things like that . Um , and then from the recognition side we have backtraces at the phone - level ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "If {disfmarker} if it can handle that , it could handle states or whatever . And then at the prosody - level we have frame {disfmarker} sort of like cepstral feature files ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "uh , like these P - files or anything like that . And that 's sort of the world of things that I {disfmarker} And then we have the aligned channels , of course ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "It seems to me you want to keep the frame - level stuff separate ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "and {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And then {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I {disfmarker} I definitely agree and I wanted to find actually a f a nicer format or a {disfmarker} maybe a more compact format than what we used before ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Just cuz you 've got {vocalsound} ten channels or whatever and two hours of a meeting . It 's {disfmarker} it 's a lot of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Huge ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Now {disfmarker} now how would you {disfmarker} how would you represent , um , multiple speakers in this framework ? Were {disfmarker} You would just represent them as {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You would have like a speaker tag or something ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "there 's a spea speaker tag up at the top which identifies them and then each utt the way I had it is each turn or each utterance , {comment} I don't even remember now , had a speaker ID tag attached to it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And in this format you would have a different tag , which {disfmarker} which would , uh , be linked to the link . So {disfmarker} so somewhere else you would have another thing {pause} that would be ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um {disfmarker} Let 's see , would it be a node or a link ? Um {disfmarker} And so {disfmarker} so this one would have , um , an ID is link {disfmarker} {comment} link seventy - four or something like that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And then somewhere up here you would have a link that {disfmarker} that , uh , you know , was referencing L - seventy - four and had speaker Adam ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Is i ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You know , or something like that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Actually , it 's the channel , I think , that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well , channel or speaker or whatever ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , w yeah , channel is what the channelized output out" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "It doesn't {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "This isn't quite right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I have to look at it again ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} so how in the NIST format do we express {vocalsound} a hierarchical relationship between , um , say , an utterance and the words within it ? So how do you {pause} tell {pause} that {pause} these are the words that belong to that utterance ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , you would have another structure lower down than this that would be saying they 're all belonging to this ID ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "So each thing refers to the {pause} utterance that it belongs to ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right . And then each utterance could refer to a turn ," }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "So it 's {disfmarker} it 's not hi it 's sort of bottom - up ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and each turn could refer to something higher up ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And what if you actually have {disfmarker} So right now what you have as utterance , um , the closest thing that comes out of the channelized is the stuff between the segment boundaries that the transcribers put in or that Thilo put in , which may or may not actually be , like , a s it 's usually not {disfmarker} um , the beginning and end of a sentence , say ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , that 's why I didn't call it \" sentence \" ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So , right . Um , so it 's like a segment or something ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So , I mean , I assume this is possible , that if you have {disfmarker} someone annotates the punctuation or whatever when they transcribe , you can say , you know , from {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} from the c beginning of the sentence to the end of the sentence , from the annotations , this is a unit , even though it never actually {disfmarker} i It 's only a unit by virtue of the annotations {pause} at the word - level ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sure . I mean , so you would {disfmarker} you would have yet another tag ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And then that would get a tag somehow ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You 'd have another tag which says this is of type \" sentence \" ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , what {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But it 's just not overtly in the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Um , cuz this is exactly the kind of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I think that should be {pause} possible as long as the {disfmarker} But , uh , what I don't understand is where the {disfmarker} where in this type of file {pause} that would be expressed ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right . You would have another tag somewhere . It 's {disfmarker} well , there 're two ways of doing it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "S so it would just be floating before the sentence or floating after the sentence without a time - mark ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You could have some sort of link type {disfmarker} type equals \" sentence \" , and ID is \" S - whatever \" . And then lower down you could have an utterance . So the type is \" utterance \" {disfmarker} equals \" utt \" . And you could either say that {disfmarker} No . I don't know {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So here 's the thing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I take that back ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Can you {disfmarker} can you say that this is part of this ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "See , cuz it 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hhh ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "it 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "You would just have a r" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "S" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "or do you say this is part of this ? I think {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "You would refer up to the sentence ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But they 're {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well , the thing {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "they 're actually overlapping each other , sort of ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "the thing is that some something may be a part of one thing for one purpose and another thing of another purpose ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So f" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "You have to have another type then , I guess ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "s Um , well , s let 's {disfmarker} let 's ta so let 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , I think I 'm {disfmarker} I think w I had better look at it again" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "so {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "because I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "y So for instance @ @ {comment} sup" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "There 's one level {disfmarker} there 's one more level of indirection that I 'm forgetting ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Suppose you have a word sequence and you have two different segmentations of that same word sequence . f Say , one segmentation is in terms of , um , you know , uh , sentences . And another segmentation is in terms of , um , {vocalsound} I don't know , {comment} prosodic phrases . And let 's say that they don't {pause} nest . So , you know , a prosodic phrase may cross two sentences or something ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I don't know if that 's true or not but {vocalsound} let 's as" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Well , it 's definitely true with the segment ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "That 's what I {disfmarker} exactly what I meant by the utterances versus the sentence could be sort of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah . So , you want to be s you want to say this {disfmarker} this word is part of that sentence and this prosodic phrase ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "But the phrase is not part of the sentence" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and neither is the sentence part of the phrase ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I I 'm pretty sure that you can do that , but I 'm forgetting the exact level of nesting ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So , you would have to have {vocalsound} two different pointers from the word up {disfmarker} one level up , one to the sent" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So {disfmarker} so what you would end up having is a tag saying \" here 's a word , and it starts here and it ends here \" ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And then lower down you would say \" here 's a prosodic boundary and it has these words in it \" . And lower down you 'd have \" here 's a sentence ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "An - Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and it has these words in it \" ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So you would be able to go in and say , you know , \" give me all the words in the bound in the prosodic phrase" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "and give me all the words in the {disfmarker} \" Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So I think that 's {disfmarker} that would wor" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Um , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Let me look at it again ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm . The {disfmarker} the o the other issue that you had was , how do you actually efficiently extract , um {disfmarker} find and extract information in a structure of this type ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "That 's good ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So you gave some examples like {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Well , uh , and , I mean , you guys might {disfmarker} I don't know if this is premature because I suppose once you get the representation you can do this , but the kinds of things I was worried about is ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No , that 's not clear ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I mean , yeah , you c sure you can do it ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Well , OK . So i if it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "but can you do it sort of l l you know , it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I I mean , I can't do it , but I can {disfmarker} um ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "y y you gotta {disfmarker} you gotta do this {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you 're gonna want to do this very quickly" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "or else you 'll spend all your time sort of searching through very {vocalsound} complex data structures {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right . You 'd need a p sort of a paradigm for how to do it . But an example would be \" find all the cases in which Adam started to talk while Andreas was talking and his pitch was rising , Andreas 's pitch \" . That kind of thing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right . I mean , that 's gonna be {disfmarker} Is the rising pitch a {pause} feature , or is it gonna be in the same file ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Well , the rising pitch will never be {pause} hand - annotated . So the {disfmarker} all the prosodic features are going to be automatically {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But the {disfmarker} I mean , that 's gonna be hard regardless ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So they 're gonna be in those {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "right ? Because you 're gonna have to write a program that goes through your feature file and looks for rising pitches ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So {disfmarker} Right . So normally what we would do is we would say \" what do we wanna assign rising pitch to ? \" Are we gonna assign it to words ? Are we gonna just assign it to sort of {disfmarker} when it 's rising we have a begin - end rise representation ? But suppose we dump out this file and we say , uh , for every word we just classify it as , w you know , rise or fall or neither ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . Well , in that case you would add that to this {pause} format" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "r" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So we would basically be sort of , um , taking the format and enriching it with things that we wanna query in relation to the words that are already in the file ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "and then querying it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You want sort of a grep that 's {disfmarker} that works at the structural {disfmarker} on the structural representation ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You have that . There 's a {pause} standard again in XML , specifically for searching XML documents {disfmarker} structured X - XML documents , where you can specify both the content and the structural position ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah , but it 's {disfmarker} it 's not clear that that 's {disfmarker} That 's relative to the structure of the XML document ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "If {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "not to the structure of what you 're representing in the document ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You use it as a tool . You use it as a tool , not an end - user . It 's not an end - user thing ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} you would use that to build your tool to do that sort of search ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right . Be Because here you 're specifying a lattice ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So the underlying {disfmarker} that 's the underlying data structure . And you want to be able to search in that lattice ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But as long as the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's a graph , but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "That 's different from searching through the text ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But it seems like as long as the features that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , no , no , no . The whole point is that the text and the lattice are isomorphic . They {pause} represent each other {pause} completely ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So that {disfmarker} I mean th" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "That 's true if the features from your acoustics or whatever that are not explicitly in this are at the level of these types ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hhh ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "That {disfmarker} that if you can do that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , but that 's gonna be the trouble no matter what . Right ? No matter what format you choose , you 're gonna have the trou you 're gonna have the difficulty of relating the {disfmarker} the frame - level features {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "That 's right . That 's true . That 's why I was trying to figure out what 's the best format for this representation ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And it 's still gonna be {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "it 's still gonna be , uh , not direct ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "You know , it {disfmarker} Or another example was , you know , uh , where in the language {disfmarker} where in the word sequence are people interrupting ? So , I guess that one 's actually easier ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "What about {disfmarker} what about , um , the idea of using a relational database to , uh , store the information from the XML ? So you would have {disfmarker} XML basically would {disfmarker} Uh , you {disfmarker} you could use the XML to put the data in , and then when you get data out , you put it back in XML . So use XML as sort of the {disfmarker} the transfer format ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Transfer ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "uh , but then you store the data in the database , which allows you to do all kinds of {pause} good search things in there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The , uh {disfmarker} One of the things that ATLAS is doing is they 're trying to define an API which is independent of the back store ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "so that , uh , you could define a single API and the {disfmarker} the storage could be flat XML files or a database ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "My opinion on that is for the s sort of stuff that we 're doing , {comment} I suspect it 's overkill to do a full relational database , that , um , just a flat file and , uh , search tools I bet will be enough ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "But {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But that 's the advantage of ATLAS , is that if we actually take {disfmarker} decide to go that route completely and we program to their API , then if we wanted to add a database later it would be pretty easy ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "It seems like the kind of thing you 'd do if {disfmarker} I don't know , if people start adding all kinds of s bells and whistles to the data . And so that might be {disfmarker} I mean , it 'd be good for us to know {disfmarker} to use a format where we know we can easily , um , input that to some database if other people are using it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Something like that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I guess I 'm just a little hesitant to try to go whole hog on sort of the {disfmarker} the whole framework that {disfmarker} that NIST is talking about , with ATLAS and a database and all that sort of stuff ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "cuz it 's a big learning curve , just to get going ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Whereas if we just do a flat file format , sure , it may not be as efficient but everyone can program in Perl and {disfmarker} and use it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "But this is {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So , as opposed to {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I {disfmarker} I 'm still , um , {vocalsound} not convinced that you can do much at all on the text {disfmarker} on the flat file that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} you know , the text representation . e Because the text representation is gonna be , uh , not reflecting the structure of {disfmarker} of your words and annotations . It 's just {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , if it 's not representing it , then how do you recover it ? Of course it 's representing it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No . You {disfmarker} you have to {disfmarker} what you have to do is you have to basically {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "That 's the whole point ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Y yeah . You can use Perl to read it in and construct a internal representation that is essentially a lattice . But , the {disfmarker} and then {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , that was a different point ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ? So what I was saying is that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "But that 's what you 'll have to do . Bec - be" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "For Perl {disfmarker} if you want to just do Perl . If you wanted to use the structured XML query language , that 's a different thing . And it 's a set of tools {vocalsound} that let you specify given the D - DDT {disfmarker} DTD of the document , um , what sorts of structural searches you want to do . So you want to say that , you know , you 're looking for , um , a tag within a tag within a particular tag that has this particular text in it , um , and , uh , refers to a particular value . And so the point isn't that an end - user , who is looking for a query like you specified , wouldn't program it in this language . What you would do is , someone would build a tool that used that as a library . So that they {disfmarker} so that you wouldn't have to construct the internal representations yourself ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Is a {disfmarker} See , I think the kinds of questions , at least in the next {disfmarker} to the end of this year , are {disfmarker} there may be a lot of different ones , but they 'll all have a similar nature . They 'll be looking at either a word - level prosodic , uh , an {disfmarker} a value ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "like a continuous value , like the slope of something . But you know , we 'll do something where we {disfmarker} some kind of data reduction where the prosodic features are sort o uh , either at the word - level or at the segment - level ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "or {disfmarker} or something like that . They 're not gonna be at the phone - level and they 're no not gonna be at the frame - level when we get done with sort of giving them simpler shapes and things . And so the main thing is just being able {disfmarker} Well , I guess , the two goals . Um , one that Chuck mentioned is starting out with something that we don't have to start over , that we don't have to throw away if other people want to extend it for other kinds of questions ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "and being able to at least get enough , uh , information out on {disfmarker} where we condition the location of features on information that 's in the kind of file that you {pause} put up there . And that would {disfmarker} that would do it ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . I think that there are quick and dirty solutions ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , for me ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and then there are long - term , big - infrastructure solutions . And so {vocalsound} we want to try to pick something that lets us do a little bit of both ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "In the between , right . And especially that the representation doesn't have to be thrown away ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um {disfmarker} Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "even if your tools change ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And so it seems to me that {disfmarker} I mean , I have to look at it again to see whether it can really do what we want , but if we use the ATLAS external file representation , um , it seems like it 's rich enough that you could do quick tools just as I said in Perl , and then later on if we choose to go up the learning curve , we can use the whole ATLAS inter infrastructure ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah . I mean , that sounds good to me ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "which has all that built in ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} So if {disfmarker} if you would l look at that and let us know what you think ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sure ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , I think we 're sort of guinea pigs , cuz I {disfmarker} I want to get the prosody work done but I don't want to waste time , you know , getting the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh , maybe {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , I wouldn't wait for the formats , because anything you pick we 'll be able to translate to another form ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well {disfmarker} Ma well , maybe you should actually look at it yourself too to get a sense of what it is you 'll {disfmarker} you 'll be dealing with ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "because , um , you know , Adam might have one opinion but you might have another , so" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah , definitely ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I think the more eyes look at this the better ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Especially if there 's , e um {disfmarker} you know , if someone can help with at least the {disfmarker} the setup of the right {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hi , Jane ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Oh , hi ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "the right representation , then , i you know , I hope it won't {disfmarker} We don't actually need the whole full - blown thing to be ready ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Can you {disfmarker} Oh , well ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "so . Um , so maybe if you guys can look at it and sort of see what ," }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sure ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "um {disfmarker} I think we 're {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we 're actually just {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "We 're about done ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "yeah ," }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "wrapping up , but , um {disfmarker} Yeah , sorry , it 's a uh short meeting , but , um {disfmarker} Well , I don't know . Is there anything else , like {disfmarker} I mean that helps me a lot ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , I think the other thing we might want to look at is alternatives to P - file ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , th the reason I like P - file is I 'm already familiar with it , we have expertise here , and so if we pick something else , there 's the learning - curve problem . But , I mean , it is just something we developed at ICSI ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Is there an {disfmarker} is there an IP - API ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And so {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "There 's an API for it . And , uh ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "There used to be a problem that they get too large ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "a bunch of libraries , P - file utilities ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and so {pause} basically the {disfmarker} uh the filesystem wouldn't {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , that 's gonna be a problem no matter what . You have the two - gigabyte limit on the filesystem size . And we definitely hit that with Broadcast News ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Maybe you could extend the API to , uh , support , uh , like splitting up , you know , conceptually one file into smaller files on disk so that you can essentially , you know , have arbitrarily long f" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep . Most of the tools can handle that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So that we didn't do it at the API - level . We did it at the t tool - level . That {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} most {disfmarker} many of them can s you can specify several P - files and they 'll just be done sequentially ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So , I guess , yeah , if {disfmarker} if you and Don can {disfmarker} if you can show him the P - file stuff and see ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sure ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So this would be like for the F - zero {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "True ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , if you do \" man P - file \" or \" apropos P - file \" , you 'll see a lot ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I 've used the P - file , I think . I 've looked at it at least , briefly , I think when we were doing s something ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "What does the P stand for anyway ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I have no idea ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Oh , in there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I didn't de I didn't develop it . You know , it was {disfmarker} I think it was Dave Johnson . So it 's all part of the Quicknet library . It has all the utilities for it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No , P - files were around way before Quicknet . P - files were {disfmarker} were around when {disfmarker} w with , um , {vocalsound} RAP ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Oh , were they ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "It 's like the history of ICSI ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You worked with P - files ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Like {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "No ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I worked with P - files ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "I don't remember what the \" P \" is , though ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But there are ni they 're {disfmarker} The {pause} Quicknet library has a bunch of things in it to handle P - files ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "so it works pretty well ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And that isn't really , I guess , as important as the {disfmarker} the main {disfmarker} I don't know what you call it , the {disfmarker} the main sort of word - level {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Neither do I ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Probably stands for \" Phil \" . Phil Kohn ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's a Phil file ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Yeah . That 's my guess ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Huh . OK . Well , that 's really useful . I mean , this is exactly the kind of thing that I wanted to settle . Um , so {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , I 've been meaning to look at the ATLAS stuff again anyway ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So , just keep {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah . I guess it 's also sort of a political deci I mean , if {disfmarker} if you feel like that 's a community that would be good to tie into anyway , then it 's {disfmarker} sounds like it 's worth doing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , I think it {disfmarker} it w" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "j I think there 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , w uh , as I said , I {disfmarker} what I did with this stuff {disfmarker} I based it on theirs . It 's just they hadn't actually come up with an external format yet . So now that they have come up with a format , it doesn't {disfmarker} it seems pretty reasonable to use it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But let me look at it again ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK , great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "As I said , that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Cuz we actually can start {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "There 's one level {disfmarker} there 's one more level of indirection and I 'm just blanking on exactly how it works . I gotta look at it again ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean , we can start with , um , I guess , this input from Dave 's , which you had printed out , the channelized input . Cuz he has all of the channels , you know , with the channels in the tag and stuff like that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , I 've seen it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So that would be i directly ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep . Easy {disfmarker} easy to map ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "um {disfmarker} Yeah . And so then it would just be a matter of getting {disfmarker} making sure to handle the annotations that are , you know , not at the word - level and , um , t to import the" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Where are those annotations coming from ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Well , right now , I g Jane would {disfmarker} {vocalsound} would {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Are you talking about the overlap a annotations ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah , any kind of annotation {pause} that , like , isn't already there . Uh , you know , anything you can envision ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Yeah . So what I was imagining was {disfmarker} um , so Dave says we can have unlimited numbers of green ribbons . And so put , uh , a {disfmarker} a green ribbon on for an overlap code . And since we w we {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it 's important to remain flexible regarding the time bins for now . And so it 's nice to have {disfmarker} However , you know , you want to have it , uh , time time uh , located in the discourse . So , um , if we {disfmarker} if we tie the overlap code to the first word in the overlap , then you 'll have a time - marking . It won't {disfmarker} it 'll be independent of the time bins , however these e evolve , shrink , or whatever , increase , or {disfmarker} Also , you could have different time bins for different purposes . And having it tied to the first word in an overlap segment is unique , uh , you know , anchored , clear . And it would just end up on a separate ribbon ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "So the overlap coding is gonna be easy with respect to that . You look puzzled ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "I {disfmarker} I just {disfmarker} I don't quite understand what these things are ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Uh ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "What , the codes themselves ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Well , th overlap codes ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Or the {disfmarker} ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "I 'm not sure what that @ @ {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , I mean , is that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "It probably doesn't matter ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Well , we don't have to go into the codes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , it doesn't ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "No , I d" }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "We don't have to go into the codes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , that {disfmarker} not for the topic of this meeting ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "But let me just {disfmarker} No . W the idea is just to have a separate green ribbon , you know , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and let 's say that this is a time bin . There 's a word here . This is the first word of an overlapping segment of any length , overlapping with any other , uh , word {disfmarker} uh , i segment of any length . And , um , then you can indicate that this here was perhaps a ch a backchannel , or you can say that it was , um , a usurping of the turn , or you can {disfmarker} you know , any {disfmarker} any number of categories . But the fact is , you have it time - tagged in a way that 's independent of the , uh , sp particular time bin that the word ends up in . If it 's a large unit or a small unit , or" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "we sh change the boundaries of the units , it 's still unique and {disfmarker} and , uh , fits with the format ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "flexible , all that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Um , it would be nice {disfmarker} um , eh , gr this is sort of r regarding {disfmarker} uh , uh it 's related but not directly germane to the topic of discussion , but , when it comes to annotations , um , you often find yourself in the situation where you have {pause} different annotations {pause} of the same , say , word sequence . OK ?" }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And sometimes the word sequences even differ slightly because they were edited s at one place but not the other ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So , once this data gets out there , some people might start annotating this for , I don't know , dialogue acts or , um , you know , topics or what the heck . You know , there 's a zillion things that people might annotate this for . And the only thing that is really sort of common among all the versi the various versions of this data is the word sequence , or approximately ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Or the time ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Or the times . But , see , if you 'd annotate dialogue acts , you don't necessarily want to {disfmarker} or topics {disfmarker} you don't really want to be dealing with time - marks ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I guess ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You 'd {disfmarker} it 's much more efficient for them to just see the word sequence , right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I mean , most people aren't as sophisticated as {disfmarker} as we are here with , you know , uh , time alignments and stuff . So {disfmarker} So the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the point is {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Should {disfmarker} should we mention some names on the people who are n ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right . So , um , the p my point is that {pause} you 're gonna end up with , uh , word sequences that are differently annotated . And {pause} you want some tool , uh , that is able to sort of merge these different annotations back into a single , uh , version . OK ? Um , and we had this problem very massively , uh , at SRI when we worked , uh , a while back on , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} well , on dialogue acts as well as , uh , you know , um , what was it ? uh ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Well , all the Switchboard in it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "utterance types . There 's , uh , automatic , uh , punctuation and stuff like that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Because we had one set of {pause} annotations that were based on , uh , one version of the transcripts with a particular segmentation , and then we had another version that was based on , uh , a different s slightly edited version of the transcripts with a different segmentation . So , {vocalsound} we had these two different versions which were {disfmarker} you know , you could tell they were from the same source but they weren't identical . So it was extremely hard {vocalsound} to reliably merge these two back together to correlate the information from the different annotations ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep . I {disfmarker} I don't see any way that file formats are gonna help us with that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's {disfmarker} it 's all a question of semantic ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No . But once you have a file format , I can imagine writing {disfmarker} not personally , but someone writing a tool that is essentially an alignment tool , um , that mediates between various versions ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and {disfmarker} uh , sort of like th uh , you know , you have this thing in UNIX where you have , uh , diff ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Diff ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "W - diff or diff ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "There 's the , uh , diff that actually tries to reconcile different {disfmarker} two diffs f {comment} based on the same original ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Is it S - diff ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Something like that , um , but operating on these lattices that are really what 's behind this {disfmarker} uh , this annotation format ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "There 's actually a diff library you can use {pause} to do things like that that {disfmarker} so you have different formats ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "You could definitely do that with the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So somewhere in the API you would like to have like a merge or some {disfmarker} some function that merges two {disfmarker} two versions ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , I think it 's gonna be very hard . Any sort of structured anything when you try to merge is really , really hard" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "because you ha i The hard part isn't the file format . The hard part is specifying what you mean by \" merge \" ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Is {disfmarker} Exactly ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And that 's very difficult ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But the one thing that would work here actually for i that is more reliable than the utterances is the {disfmarker} the speaker ons and offs . So if you have a good ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But this is exactly what I mean , is that {disfmarker} that the problem i" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "um {disfmarker} Yeah . You just have to know wha what to tie it to ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , exactly . The problem is saying \" what are the semantics ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "what do you mean by \" merge \" ? \"" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right , right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right . So {disfmarker} so just to let you know what we {disfmarker} where we kluged it by , uh , doing {disfmarker} uh , by doing {disfmarker} Hhh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Both were based on words , so , bo we have two versions of the same words intersp you know , sprinkled with {disfmarker} with different tags for annotations ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And then you did diff ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And we did diff . Exactly !" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , that 's just what I thought ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And that 's how {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "That 's just wh how I would have done it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah . But , you know , it had lots of errors and things would end up in the wrong order , and so forth . Uh , so , um , if you had a more {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Uh , it {disfmarker} it was a kluge because it was basically reducing everything to {disfmarker} uh , to {disfmarker} uh , uh , to textual alignment ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "A textual {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Um , so {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But , d isn't that something where whoever {disfmarker} if {vocalsound} {disfmarker} if the people who are making changes , say in the transcripts , cuz this all happened when the transcripts were different {disfmarker} ye um , if they tie it to something , like if they tied it to the acoustic segment {disfmarker} if they {disfmarker} You know what I mean ? Then {disfmarker} Or if they tied it to an acoustic segment and we had the time - marks , that would help ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But the problem is exactly as Adam said , that you get , you know , y you don't have that information or it 's lost in the merge somehow ," }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Well , can I ask one question ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "so {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "It {disfmarker} it seems to me that , um , we will have o an official version of the corpus , which will be only one {disfmarker} one version in terms of the words {disfmarker} where the words are concerned . We 'd still have the {disfmarker} the merging issue maybe if coding were done independently of the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And you 're gonna get that" }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "because if the data gets out , people will do all kinds of things to it . And , uh , s you know , several years from now you might want to look into , um , the prosody of referring expressions . And someone at the university of who knows where has annotated the referring expressions . So you want to get that annotation and bring it back in line with your data ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But unfortunately they 've also hand - edited it ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "OK , then {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But they 've also {disfmarker} Exactly . And so that 's exactly what we should {disfmarker} somehow when you distribute the data , say that {disfmarker} you know , that {disfmarker} have some way of knowing how to merge it back in and asking people to try to do that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Well , then the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "What 's {disfmarker} what 's wrong with {pause} doing times ? I {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "I agree . That was what I was wondering ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Uh , yeah , time is the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well ," }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Time is unique . You were saying that you didn't think we should {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Time is passing !" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Time {disfmarker} time {disfmarker} times are ephemeral ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Andreas was saying {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "what if they haven't notated with them , times ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah . He {disfmarker} he 's a language modeling person , though ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So {disfmarker} so imagine {disfmarker} I think his {disfmarker} his example is a good one . Imagine that this person who developed the corpus of the referring expressions didn't include time ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "He included references to words ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Ach !" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "He said that at this word is when {disfmarker} when it happened ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Well , then {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Or she ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Or she ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "But then couldn't you just indirectly figure out the time {pause} tied to the word ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But still they {disfmarker} Exactly ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sure . But what if {disfmarker} what if they change the words ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Not {disfmarker} Well , but you 'd have some anchoring point . He couldn't have changed all the words ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "But can they change the words without changing the time of the word ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sure . But they could have changed it a little . The {disfmarker} the point is , that {disfmarker} that they may have annotated it off a word transcript that isn't the same as our word transcript , so how do you merge it back in ? I understand what you 're saying ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And I {disfmarker} I guess the answer is , um , it 's gonna be different every time . It 's j it 's just gonna be {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I it 's exactly what I said before ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "You only know the boundaries of the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "which is that \" what do you mean by \" merge \" ? \" So in this case where you have the words and you don't have the times , well , what do you mean by \" merge \" ? If you tell me what you mean , I can write a program to do it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right . Right . You can merge at the level of the representation that the other person preserved and that 's it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right . And that 's about all you can do ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And beyond that , all you know is {disfmarker} is relative ordering and sometimes even that is wrong ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So {disfmarker} so in {disfmarker} so in this one you would have to do a best match between the word sequences ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "extract the times f from the best match of theirs to yours , and use that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "And then infer that their time - marks are somewhere in between ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah , exactly ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "But it could be that they just {disfmarker} uh , I mean , it could be that they chunked {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they lost certain utterances and all that stuff ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right , exactly . So it could get very , very ugly ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "or {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Definitely ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Definitely . Alright ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "That 's interesting ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Well , I guess , w I {disfmarker} I didn't want to keep people too long and Adam wanted t people {disfmarker} I 'll read the digits . If anyone else offers to , that 'd be great . And" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Ah , well ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "if not , I guess {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "For th for the {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} for the benefit of science we 'll read the digits ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "More digits , the better . OK , this is" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Thanks {disfmarker} thanks a lot . It 's really helpful . I mean , Adam and Don {nonvocalsound} will sort of meet and I think that 's great . Very useful . Go next ." }, { "speaker": "PhD D", "content": "Scratch that ." }, { "speaker": "Postdoc E", "content": "O three" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Oh , right ." } ] }, { "topic_list": [ { "topic": "Details about setting up the wizard and recruiting participants", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "39", "127" ] ] }, { "topic": "Trajector - landmark and source - path - goal modifications to the Bayes net", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "140", "186" ] ] }, { "topic": "Controlling size of combinatorial input", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "187", "256" ] ] }, { "topic": "Generalizing schema to extract properties for different Bayes nets", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "261", "349" ] ] } ], "general_query_list": [ { "query": "Summarize the meeting", "answer": "The team began the meeting by discussing the logistics of setting up the interface for data collection. Some members ran a trial of it earlier and found someone who would make a suitable wizard. The team shared concern about how they would recruit non-university student participants. Grad D introduced the team to the second iteration of the bayes-net model and its schemas. Then, the discussion moved onto controlling the size of the bayes-net as it would otherwise be based on too much information. The team ended the meeting by delving into how the method of creating a Bayes-net in different scenarios could itself be abstracted, i.e. narrowing the input and output factors and the intermediate representation." } ], "specific_query_list": [ { "query": "Summarize the details about setting up the wizard and recruiting participants", "answer": "The team listened to a recording of the interface's trial run. Litonya was asked to be the first subject of the interface and Fey acted as the wizard. The team was happy with Fey's performance and decided to hire her. Upon Fey's suggestion, they also decided that the wizard should be introduced in a more appropriate fashion. The team also agreed that the run was too long at 5 minutes.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "39", "127" ] ] }, { "query": "What did Grad D and Grad C discuss about who was acting as the computer and wizard?", "answer": "Grad C was concerned that the same person acting as the wizard and computer system might not be the best idea. Grad D had some way of making the wizard and computer seem distinct even though both were voiced by the same person and told Grad C that the recording would clarify things.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "44", "51" ] ] }, { "query": "What did the Professor think about hiring Fey?", "answer": "The Professor was very supportive of the idea of hiring Fey. He thought that it would be helpful since she was also willing to take over the task of organizing subjects. In addition, he believed the project would provide her with a valuable learning experience for her own upcoming graduate school work in experimental paradigms.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "95", "115" ] ] }, { "query": "Summarize the discussion about controlling size of combinatorial input", "answer": "The team was concerned that the combinatorial input that would result from the various linguistic and contextual schemas would be enormous for the Bayes net. The Professor suggested that it's best to narrow down the decision variables, perhaps by studying the trade-offs between different input factors. The team thought that perhaps they could keep the kinds of objects in the environment to a small subset and make rules governing actions around those objects.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "187", "256" ] ] }, { "query": "What did the Professor think about controlling the size of the combinatorial input?", "answer": "The professor was the one to raise the issue and suggested that a knowledge engineering trick could be used to narrow down inputs. He thought that perhaps adding deterministic rules to properties that have actions would be helpful and the property types could be retrieved from the ontology.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "187", "201" ], [ "227", "239" ] ] }, { "query": "What did Grad D think about managing the size of the combinatorial input?", "answer": "Grad D thought that the best way would be to add restrictive action types that are attached to the kind of object. For instance, there are specific actions that would be relevant to a landmark.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "220", "224" ] ] } ], "meeting_transcripts": [ { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Hey , you 're not supposed to be drinking in here dude ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Do we have to read them that slowly ? OK . Sounded like a robot . Um , this is t" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "When you read the numbers it kind of reminded me of beat poetry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I tried to go for the EE Cummings sort of feeling , but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Three three six zero zero . Four two zero zero one seven . That 's what I think of when I think of beat poetry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Beat poetry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "You ever seen \" So I married an axe murderer \" ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Uh parts of it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "There 's a part wh there 's parts when he 's doing beat poetry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Oh yeah ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "And he talks like that . That 's why I thi That uh probably is why I think of it that way ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm . No , I didn't see that movie . Who did {disfmarker} who made that ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mike Meyers is the guy ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "It - it 's his uh {disfmarker} it 's his cute romantic comedy . That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} That 's his cute romantic comedy , yeah . The other thing that 's real funny , I 'll spoil it for you . is when he 's {disfmarker} he works in a coffee shop , in San Francisco , and uh he 's sitting there on this couch and they bring him this massive cup of espresso , and he 's like \" excuse me I ordered the large espresso ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Uh . We 're having , {vocalsound} a tiramisu tasting contest this weekend ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Wait {disfmarker} do are y So you 're trying to decide who 's the best taster of tiramisu ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "No ? Um . There was a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a fierce argument that broke out over whose tiramisu might be the best and so we decided to have a contest where those people who claim to make good tiramisu make them ," }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Ah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and then we got a panel of impartial judges that will taste {disfmarker} do a blind taste {vocalsound} and then vote ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Should be fun ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Seems like {disfmarker} Seems like you could put a s magic special ingredient in , so that everyone know which one was yours . Then , if you were to bribe them , you could uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm . Well , I was thinking if um {disfmarker} y you guys have plans for Sunday ? We 're {disfmarker} we 're not {disfmarker} it 's probably going to be this Sunday , but um we 're sort of working with the weather here because we also want to combine it with some barbecue activity where we just fire it up and what {disfmarker} whoever brings whatever you know , can throw it on there . So only the tiramisu is free , nothing else ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , I 'm going back to visit my parents this weekend , so , I 'll be out of town ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So you 're going to the west Bay then ? No ," }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "No , the South Bay ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "south Bay ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "South Bay ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , I should be free , so ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK , I 'll let you know ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "We are . Is Nancy s uh gonna show up ? Mmm . Wonder if these things ever emit a very , like , piercing screech right in your ear ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "They are gonna get more comfortable headsets . They already ordered them . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Let 's get started . The uh {disfmarker} Should I go first , with the uh , um , data . Can I have the remote {vocalsound} control . Thank you . OK . So . On Friday we had our wizard test data test and um {vocalsound} these are some of the results . This was the introduction . I actually uh , even though Liz was uh kind enough to offer to be the first subject , I sort of felt that she knew too much , so I asked uh Litonya . just on the spur of the moment , and she was uh kind enough to uh serve as the first subject ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So , this is what she saw as part of {disfmarker} as uh for instr introduction , this is what she had to read {pause} aloud . Uh , that was really difficult for her and uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Because of l all the names , you mean ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "The names and um this was the uh first three tasks she had to {disfmarker} to master after she called the system , and um then of course the system broke down , and those were the l uh uh I should say the system was supposed to break down and then um these were the remaining three tasks that she was going to solve , with a human {disfmarker} Um . There are {disfmarker} here are uh the results . Mmm . And I will not {disfmarker} We will skip the reading now . D Um . And um . The reading was five minutes , exactly . And now comes the {disfmarker} This is the phone - in phase of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Wait , can I {disfmarker} I have a question . So . So there 's no system , right ? Like , there was a wizard for both uh {disfmarker} both parts , is this right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . It was bo it both times the same person ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "One time , pretending to be a system , one time , to {disfmarker} pretending to be a human , which is actually not pretending ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . And she didn't {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I should {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean . Well . Isn't this kind of obvious when it says \" OK now you 're talking to a human \" and then the human has the same voice ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "No no no . We u Wait . OK , good question , but uh you {disfmarker} you just wait and see ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "It 's {disfmarker} You 're gonna l learn . And um the wizard sometimes will not be audible , Because she was actually {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} there was some uh lapse in the um wireless , we have to move her closer ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Is she mispronouncing \" Anlage \" ? Is it \" Anlaga \" or \" Anlunga \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "They 're mispronouncing everything ," }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "but it 's {disfmarker} This is the system breaking down , actually . \" Did I call Europe ? \" So , this is it . Well , if we {disfmarker} we um" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , are {disfmarker} are you trying to record this meeting ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "There was a strange reflex . I have a headache . I 'm really sort of out of it . OK , the uh lessons learned . The reading needs to be shorter . Five minutes is just too long . Um , that was already anticipated by some people suggested that if we just have bullets here , they 're gonna not {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} subjects are probably not gonna {disfmarker} going to follow the order . And uh she did not ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Really ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "She {disfmarker} No ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Oh , it 's surprising ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "She {disfmarker} she jumped around quite a bit ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "S so if you just number them \" one \" , \" two \" , \" three \" it 's" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , and make it sort of clear in the uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Um . We need to {disfmarker} So that 's one thing . And we need a better introduction for the wizard . That is something that Fey actually thought of a {disfmarker} in the last second that sh the system should introduce itself , when it 's called ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm . True ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "And um , um , another suggestion , by Liz , was that we uh , through subjects , switch the tasks . So when {disfmarker} when they have task - one with the computer , the next person should have task - one with a human , and so forth ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So we get nice um data for that . Um , we have to refine the tasks more and more , which of course we haven't done at all , so far , in order to avoid this rephrasing , so where , even though w we don't tell the person \" ask {pause} blah - blah - blah - blah - blah \" they still try , or at least Litonya tried to um repeat as much of that text as possible ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Say exactly what 's on there ? Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "And uh my suggestion is of course we {disfmarker} we keep the wizard , because I think she did a wonderful job ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "in the sense that she responded quite nicely to things that were not asked for , \" How much is a t a bus ticket and a transfer \" so this is gonna happen all the time , we d you can never be sure ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Um . Johno pointed out that uh we have maybe a grammatical gender problem there with wizard ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So um ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "I wasn't {disfmarker} wasn't sure whether wizard was the correct term for {pause} uh \" not a man \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "There 's no female equivalent of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "But uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Are you sure ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No , I don't know ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Not that I know of ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Well , there is witch and warlock ," }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah , that 's so @ @ ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , that 's what I was thinking , but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . Uh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK . And um {disfmarker} So , some {disfmarker} some work needs to be done , but I think we can uh {disfmarker} And this , and {disfmarker} in case no {disfmarker} you hadn't seen it , this is what Litonya looked at during the uh {disfmarker} um while taking the {disfmarker} while partaking in the data collection ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Ah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK , great . So {pause} first of all , I agree that um we should hire Fey , and start paying her . Probably pay for the time she 's put in as well . Um , do you know exactly how to do that , or is uh Lila {disfmarker} I mean , you know what exactly do we do to {disfmarker} to put her on the payroll in some way ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I 'm completely clueless , but I 'm willing to learn ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . Well , you 'll have to . Right . So anyway , um" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "N" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So why don't you uh ask Lila and see what she says about you know exactly what we do for someone in th" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Student - type worker ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , yeah she 's un she 's not a {disfmarker} a student ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "or {disfmarker} ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "she just graduated but anyway ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So i if {disfmarker} Yeah , I agree , she sounded fine , she a actually was {pause} uh , more uh , present and stuff than {disfmarker} than she was in conversation , so she did a better job than I would have guessed from just talking to her ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So I think that 's great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "This is sort of what I gave her , so this is for example h how to get to the student prison ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and I didn't even spell it out here and in some cases I {disfmarker} I spelled it out a little bit um more thoroughly ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "this is the information on {disfmarker} on the low sunken castle , and the amphitheater that never came up , and um , so i if we give her even more um , instruments to work with I think the results are gonna be even better ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , yeah , and then of course as she does it she 'll {disfmarker} she 'll learn @ @ . So that 's great . Um {pause} And also if she 's willing to take on the job of organizing all those subjects and stuff that would be wonderful ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And , uh she 's {disfmarker} actually she 's going to graduate school in a kind of an experimental paradigm , so I think this is all just fine in terms of h her learning things she 's gonna need to know uh , to do her career ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , I {disfmarker} my guess is she 'll be r r quite happy to take on that job . And , so {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yep . Yeah she {disfmarker} she didn't explicitly state that so ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "And um I told her that we gonna um figure out a meeting time in the near future to refine the tasks and s look for the potential sources to find people . She also agrees that you know if it 's all just gonna be students the data is gonna be less valuable because of that so ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , as I say there is this s set of people next door , it 's not hard to" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "We 're already {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "However , we may run into a problem with a reading task there . And um , we 'll see ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . We could talk to the people who run it and um see if they have a way that they could easily uh tell people that there 's a task , pays ten bucks or something ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "but um you have to be comfortable reading relatively complicated stuff . And {disfmarker} and there 'll probably be self - selection to some extent ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm . Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh , so that 's good . Um . Now , {pause} I signed us up for the Wednesday slot , and part of what we should do is this ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , my idea on that was {pause} uh , partly we 'll talk about system stuff for the computer scientists , but partly I did want it to get the linguists involved in some of this issue about what the task is and all {disfmarker} um you know , what the dialogue is , and what 's going on linguistically , because to the extent that we can get them contributing , that will be good . So this issue about you know re - formulating things ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "maybe we can get some of the linguists sufficiently interested that they 'll help us with it , uh , other linguists , if you 're a linguist , but in any case ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "um , the linguistics students and stuff . So my idea on {disfmarker} on Wednesday is partly to uh {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} I mean , what you did today would {disfmarker} i is just fine . You just uh do \" this is what we did , and here 's the {pause} thing , and here 's s some of the dialogue and {disfmarker} and so forth . \" But then , the other thing of course is we should um give the computer scientists some idea of {disfmarker} of what 's going on with the system design , and where we think the belief - nets fit in and where the pieces are and stuff like that . Is {disfmarker} is this {pause} make sense to everybody ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . So , I don't {disfmarker} I don't think it 's worth a lot of work , particularly on your part , to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to make a big presentation . I don't think you should {disfmarker} you don't have to make any new {pause} uh PowerPoint or anything . I think we got plenty of stuff to talk about . And , then um just see how a discussion goes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm . Sounds good . The uh other two things is um we 've {disfmarker} can have Johno tell us a little about this" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and we also have a l little bit on the interface , M - three - L enhancement , and then um that was it , I think ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So , what I did for this {disfmarker} this is {disfmarker} uh , a pedagogical belief - net because I was {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I took {disfmarker} I tried to conceptually do what you were talking about with the nodes that you could expand out {disfmarker} so what I did was I took {disfmarker} I made these dummy nodes called Trajector - In and Trajector - Out that would isolate the things related to the trajector ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "And then there were the things with the source and the path and the goal ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "And I separated them out . And then I um did similar things for our {disfmarker} our net to {disfmarker} uh with the context and the discourse and whatnot , um , so we could sort of isolate them or whatever in terms of the {disfmarker} the top layer ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "And then the bottom layer is just the Mode . So ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} Yeah , I don't understand it . Let 's go {disfmarker} Slide all the way up so we see what the p the p very bottom looks like , or is that it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah , there 's just one more node and it says \" Mode \" which is the decision between the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK , great . Alright ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So basically all I did was I took the last {pause} belief - net" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So {disfmarker} Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "and I grouped things according to what {disfmarker} how I thought they would fit in to uh image schemas that would be related . And the two that I came up with were Trajector - landmark and then Source - path - goal as initial ones ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yep . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "And then I said well , uh the trajector would be the person in this case probably ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right , yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Um , you know , we have {disfmarker} we have the concept of what their intention was , whether they were trying to tour or do business or whatever ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "or they were hurried . That 's kind of related to that . And then um in terms of the source , the things {disfmarker} uh the only things that we had on there I believe were whether {disfmarker} Oh actually , I kind of , {disfmarker} I might have added these cuz I don't think we talked too much about the source in the old one but uh whether the {disfmarker} where I 'm currently at is a landmark might have a bearing on whether {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "or the \" landmark - iness \" of where I 'm currently at . And \" usefulness \" is basi basically means is that an institutional facility like a town hall or something like that that 's not {disfmarker} something that you 'd visit for tourist 's {disfmarker} tourism 's sake or whatever . \" Travel constraints \" would be something like you know , maybe they said they can {disfmarker} they only wanna take a bus or something like that , right ? And then those are somewhat related to the path ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "so that would determine whether we 'd {disfmarker} could take {disfmarker} we would be telling them to go to the bus stop or versus walking there directly . Um , \" Goal \" . Similar things as the source except they also added whether the entity was closed and whether they have somehow marked that is was the final destination . Um , and then if you go up , Robert , Yeah , so {disfmarker} um , in terms of Context , what we had currently said was whether they were a businessman or a tourist of some other person . Um , Discourse was related to whether they had asked about open hours or whether they asked about where the entrance was or the admission fee , or something along those lines ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Uh , Prosody I don't really {disfmarker} I 'm not really sure what prosody means , in this context , so I just made up you know whether {disfmarker} whether what they say is {disfmarker} or h how they say it is {disfmarker} is that ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Um , the Parse would be what verb they chose , and then maybe how they modified it , in the sense of whether they said \" I need to get there quickly \" or whatever ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "And um , in terms of World Knowledge , this would just basically be like opening and closing times of things , the time of day it is , and whatnot ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "What 's \" tourbook \" ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Tourbook ? That would be , I don't know , the \" landmark - iness \" of things ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "whether it 's in the tourbook or not ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Ch - ch - ch - ch . Now . Alright , so I understand what 's {disfmarker} what you got . I don't yet understand {pause} how you would use it . So let me see if I can ask" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , this is not a working Bayes - net ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "a s Right . No , I understand that , but {disfmarker} but um So , what {disfmarker} Let 's slide back up again and see {disfmarker} start at the {disfmarker} at the bottom and Oop - bo - doop - boop - boop . Yeah . So , you could imagine w Uh , go ahead , you were about to go up there and point to something ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well I {disfmarker} OK , I just {disfmarker} Say what you were gonna say ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Good , do it !" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "No no , go do it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} No , I was gonna wait until {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , OK . So , so if you {disfmarker} if we made {disfmarker} if we wanted to make it into a {disfmarker} a real uh Bayes - net , that is , you know , with fill {disfmarker} you know , actually f uh , fill it @ @ in , then uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So we 'd have to get rid of this and connect these things directly to the Mode ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , I don't {disfmarker} That 's an issue . So , um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Cuz I don't understand how it would work otherwise ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , here 's the problem . And {disfmarker} and uh {disfmarker} Bhaskara and I was talking about this a little earlier today {disfmarker} is , if we just do this , we could wind up with a huge uh , combinatoric input to the Mode thing . And uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well I {disfmarker} oh yeah , I unders I understand that , I just {disfmarker} uh it 's hard for me to imagine how he could get around that ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , i But that 's what we have to do ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK , so , so , uh . There {disfmarker} there are a variety of ways of doing it . Uh . Let me just mention something that I don't want to pursue today which is there are technical ways of doing it , uh I I slipped a paper to Bhaskara and {disfmarker} about Noisy - OR 's and Noisy - MAXes and there 're ways to uh sort of back off on the purity of your Bayes - net - edness ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh , so . If you co you could ima and I now I don't know that any of those actually apply in this case , but there is some technology you could try to apply ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So it 's possible that we could do something like a summary node of some sort that {disfmarker} OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . Yeah . And , um So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So in that case , the sum we 'd have {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} I mean , these wouldn't be the summary nodes . We 'd have the summary nodes like where the things were {disfmarker} I guess maybe if thi if things were related to business or some other {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So what I was gonna say is {disfmarker} is maybe a good at this point is to try to informally {disfmarker} I mean , not necessarily in th in this meeting , but to try to informally think about what the decision variables are . So , if you have some bottom line uh decision about which mode , you know , what are the most relevant things ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And the other trick , which is not a technical trick , it 's kind of a knowledge engineering trick , is to make the n {pause} each node sufficiently narrow that you don't get this combinatorics . So that if you decided that you could characterize the decision as a trade - off between three factors , whatever they may be , OK ? then you could say \" Aha , let 's have these three factors \" , OK ? and maybe a binary version f for each , or some relatively compact decision node just above the final one ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And then the question would be if {disfmarker} if those are the things that you care about , uh can you make a relatively compact way of getting from the various inputs to the things you care about . So that y so that , you know , you can sort of try to do a knowledge engineering thing" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "given that we 're not gonna screw with the technology and just always use uh sort of orthodox Bayes - nets , then we have a knowledge engineering little problem of how do we do that . Um and" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So what I kind of need to do is to take this one and the old one and merge them together ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "\" Eh - eh - eh . \" Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , mmm , something . I mean , so uh , Robert has thought about this problem f for a long time , cuz he 's had these examples kicking around , so he may have some good intuition about you know , what are the crucial things ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "and , um , I understand where this {disfmarker} the uh {disfmarker} this is a way of playing with this abs Source - path - goal trajector exp uh uh abstraction and {disfmarker} and sort of sh displaying it in a particular way ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh , I don't think our friends uh on Wednesday are going to be able to {disfmarker} Well , maybe they will . Well , let me think about whether {disfmarker} whether I think we can present this to them or not . Um , Uh ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Well , I think this is still , I mean , ad - hoc . This is sort of th the second {vocalsound} version and I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} look at this maybe just as a , you know , a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} whatever , UML diagram or , you know , as just a uh screen shot , not really as a Bayes - net as John {disfmarker} Johno said ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "We could actually , y yeah draw it in a different way , in the sense that it would make it more abstract ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . But the uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the nice thing is that you know , it just is a {disfmarker} is a visual aid for thinking about these things which has comple clearly have to be specified m more carefully" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Alright , well , le let me think about this some more ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and uh" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "and uh see if we can find a way to present this to this linguists group that {disfmarker} that is helpful to them ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I mean , ultimately we {disfmarker} we may w w we regard this as sort of an exercise in {disfmarker} in thinking about the problem and maybe a first version of uh a module , if you wanna call it that , that you can ask , that you can give input and it it 'll uh throw the dice for you , uh throw the die for you , because um I integrated this into the existing SmartKom system in {disfmarker} in the same way as much the same way we can um sort of have this uh {disfmarker} this thing . Close this down . So if this is what M - three - L um will look like and what it 'll give us , um {disfmarker} And a very simple thing . We have an action that he wants to go from somewhere , which is some type of object , to someplace ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "And this {disfmarker} these uh {disfmarker} this changed now only um , um {disfmarker} It 's doing it twice now because it already did it once . Um , we 'll add some action type , which in this case is \" Approach \" and could be , you know , more refined uh in many ways ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm . Good ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Or we can uh have something where the uh goal is a public place and it will give us then of course an action type of the type \" Enter \" . So this is just based on this one {disfmarker} um , on this one feature , and that 's {disfmarker} that 's about all you can do . And so in the f if this pla if the object type um here is {disfmarker} is a m is a landmark , of course it 'll be um \" Vista \" . And um this is about as much as we can do if we don't w if we want to avoid uh uh a huge combinatorial explosion where we specify \" OK , if it 's this and this but that is not the case \" , and so forth , it just gets really really messy ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK , I 'm sorry . You 're {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "It was much too quick for me . OK , so let me see if I understand what you 're saying . So , I {disfmarker} I do understand that uh you can take the M - three - L and add not {disfmarker} and it w and you need to do this , for sure , we have to add , you know , not too much about um object types and stuff , and what I think you did is add some rules of the style that are already there that say \" If it 's of type \" Landmark \" , then you take {disfmarker} you 're gonna take a picture of it . \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Exactly ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "F full stop , I mean , that 's what you do . Ev - every landmark you take a picture of ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Every public place you enter , and statue you want to go as near as possible ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "you enter {disfmarker} You approach . OK . Uh , and certainly you can add rules like that to the existing SmartKom system . And you just did , right ? OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . And it {disfmarker} it would do us no good ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Ah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "That {disfmarker} Ultimately ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well . So , s well , and let 's think about this ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "W" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Um , that 's a {disfmarker} that 's another kind of baseline case , that 's another sort of thing \" OK , here 's a {disfmarker} another kind of minimal uh way of tackling this \" . Add extra properties , a deterministic rule for every property you have an action , \" pppt ! \" You do that . Um , then the question would be Uh Now , if that 's all you 're doing , then you can get the types from the ontology , OK ? because that 's all {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} all you 're using is this type {disfmarker} the types in the ontology and you 're done ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ? So we don't {disfmarker} we don't use the discourse , we don't use the context , we don't do any of those things ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "No ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Alright , but that 's {disfmarker} but that 's OK , and I mean it it 's again a kind of one minimal extension of the existing things . And that 's something the uh SmartKom people themselves would {disfmarker} they 'd say \" Sure , that 's no problem {disfmarker} you know , no problem to add types to the ont \" Right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . No . And this is {disfmarker} just in order to exemplify what {disfmarker} what we can do very , very easily is , um we have this {disfmarker} this silly uh interface and we have the rules that are as banal as of we just saw , and we have our content ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Now , the content {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} whi which is sort of what {disfmarker} what we see here , which is sort of the Vista , Schema , Source , Path , Goal , whatever ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "This will um be um a job to find ways of writing down Image schema , X - schema , constructions , in some {disfmarker} some form , and have this be in a {disfmarker} in a {disfmarker} in the content , loosely called \" Constructicon \" . And the rules we want to throw away completely . And um {disfmarker} and here is exactly where what 's gonna be replaced with our Bayes - net , which is exactly getting the input feeding into here . This decides whether it 's an whether action {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the Enter , the Vista , or the whatever" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh , \" approach \" , you called it , I think this time ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "uh Approach um construction should be activated , IE just pasted in ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "That 's what you said {disfmarker} Yeah , that 's fine . Yeah , but {disfmarker} Right . But it 's not construction there , it 's action . Construction is a d is a different story ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Right . This is uh {disfmarker} so what we 'd be generating would be a reference to a semantic uh like parameters for the {disfmarker} for the X - schema ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "For {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . So that {disfmarker} that uh i if you had the generalized \" Go \" X - schema and you wanted to specialize it to these three ones , then you would have to supply the parameters ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And then uh , although we haven't worried about this yet , you might wanna worry about something that would go to the GIS and use that to actually get you know , detailed route planning . So , you know , where do you do take a picture of it and stuff like that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "But that 's not {disfmarker} It 's not the immediate problem ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "But , presumably that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that functionality 's there when {disfmarker} when we {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So the immediate problem is just deciding w which {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Aspects of the X - schema to add ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , so the pro The immediate problem is {disfmarker} is back t t to what you were {disfmarker} what you are doing with the belief - net ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "You know , uh what are we going to use to make this decision {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Right and then , once we 've made the decision , how do we put that into the content ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . Right . Right . Well , that {disfmarker} that actually is relatively easy in this case ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "The harder problem is we decide what we want to use , how are we gonna get it ? And that the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} that 's the hardest problem . So , the hardest problem is how are you going to get this information from some combination of the {disfmarker} what the person says and the context and the ontology . The h So , I think that 's the hardest problem at the moment is {disfmarker} is" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "where are you gonna {disfmarker} how are you gonna g get this information . Um , and that 's {disfmarker} so , getting back to here , uh , we have a d a technical problem with the belief - nets that we {disfmarker} we don't want all the com" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "There 's just too many factors right now ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "too many factors if we {disfmarker} if we allow them to just go combinatorially ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So we wanna think about which ones we really care about and what they really most depend on , and can we c you know , clean this {disfmarker} this up to the point where it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So what we really wanna do i cuz this is really just the three layer net , we wanna b make it {disfmarker} expand it out into more layers basically ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . We might . Uh , I mean that {disfmarker} that 's certainly one thing we can do . Uh , it 's true that the way you have this , a lot of the times you have {disfmarker} what you 're having is the values rather than the variable . So uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Right . So instead of in instead it should really be {disfmarker} just be \" intention \" as a node instead of \" intention business \" or \" intention tour \" ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ? So you {disfmarker} Yeah , right , and then it would have values , uh , \" Tour \" , \" Business \" , or uh \" Hurried \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "But then {disfmarker} but i it still some knowledge design to do , about i how do you wanna break this up , what really matters ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I mean , it 's fine . You know , we have to {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's iterative . We 're gonna have to work with it some ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "I think what was going through my mind when I did it was someone could both have a business intention and a touring intention and the probabilities of both of them happening at the same time {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , you {disfmarker} you could do that . And it 's perfectly OK {pause} to uh insist that {disfmarker} that , you know , th um , they add up to one , but that there 's uh {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that it doesn't have to be one zero zero ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mmm . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . So you could have the conditional p So the {disfmarker} each of these things is gonna be a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a probability . So whenever there 's a choice , uh {disfmarker} so like landmark - ness and usefulness ," }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , see I don't think those would be mutually {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "it seems like something could both be {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Absolutely right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And so that you might want to then have those b Th - Then they may have to be separate . They may not be able to be values of the same variable ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Object type , mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So that 's {disfmarker} but again , this is {disfmarker} this is the sort of knowledge design you have to go through . Right . It 's {disfmarker} you know , it 's great {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is , you know , as one step toward uh {disfmarker} toward where we wanna go ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Also it strikes me that we {disfmarker} we m may want to approach the point where we can sort of try to find a {disfmarker} uh , a specification for some interface , here that um takes the normal M - three - L , looks at it . Then we discussed in our pre - edu {disfmarker} EDU meeting um how to ask the ontology , what to ask the ontology um the fact that we can pretend we have one , make a dummy until we get the real one , and so um we {disfmarker} we may wanna decide we can do this from here , but we also could do it um you know if we have a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a belief - net interface . So the belief - net takes as input , a vector , right ? of stuff . And it {disfmarker} Yeah . And um it Output is whatever , as well . But this information is just M - three - L , and then we want to look up some more stuff in the ontology and we want to look up some more stuff in the {disfmarker} maybe we want to ask the real world , maybe you want to look something up in the GRS , but also we definitely want to look up in the dialogue history um some s some stuff . Based on we {disfmarker} we have uh {disfmarker} I was just made some examples from the ontology and so we have for example some information there that the town hall is both a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a building and it has doors and stuff like this , but it is also an institution , so it has a mayor and so forth and so forth and we get relations out of it and once we have them , we can use that information to look in the dialogue history , \" were any of these things that {disfmarker} that are part of the town hall as an institution mentioned ? \" ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "\" were any of these that make the town hall a building mentioned ? \" ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and so forth , and maybe draw some inferences on that . So this may be a {disfmarker} a sort of a process of two to three steps before we get our vector , that we feed into the belief - net ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . I think that 's {disfmarker} I think that 's exactly right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and then {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "There will be rules , but they aren't rules that come to final decisions , they 're rules that gather information for a decision process . Yeah ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "no I think that 's {disfmarker} that 's just fine . Uh , yeah . So they 'll {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} presumably there 'll be a thread or process or something that \" Agent \" , yeah , \" Agent \" , whatever you wan wanna say , yeah , that uh is rule - driven , and can {disfmarker} can uh {disfmarker} can do things like that . And um there 's an issue about whether there will be {disfmarker} that 'll be the same agent and the one that then goes off and uh carries out the decision , so it probably will . My guess is it 'll be the same basic agent that um can go off and get information , run it through a {disfmarker} a c this belief - net that {disfmarker} turn a crank in the belief - net , that 'll come out with s uh more {disfmarker} another vector , OK , which can then be uh applied at what we would call the simulation or action end . So you now know what you 're gonna do and that may actually involve getting more information . So on once you pull that out , it could be that that says \" Ah ! Now that we know that we gonna go ask the ontology something else . \" OK ? Now that we know that it 's a bus trip , OK ? we didn't {disfmarker} We didn't need to know beforehand , uh how long the bus trip takes or whatever , but {disfmarker} but now that we know that 's the way it 's coming out then we gotta go find out more ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So I think that 's OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm . So this is actually , s if {disfmarker} if we were to build something that is um , and , uh , I had one more thing , the {disfmarker} it needs to do {disfmarker} Yeah . I think we {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can come up with a {disfmarker} a code for a module that we call the \" cognitive dispatcher \" , which does nothing ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "but it looks of complect object trees and decides how {disfmarker} are there parts missing that need to be filled out , there 's {disfmarker} this is maybe something that this module can do , something that this module can do and then collect uh sub - objects and then recombine them and put them together . So maybe this is actually some {disfmarker} some useful tool that we can use to rewrite it , and uh get this part ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , OK . Uh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "then . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I confess , I 'm still not completely comfortable with the overall story . Um . I i This {disfmarker} this is not a complaint , this is a promise to do more work . So I 'm gonna hafta think about it some more . Um . In particular {disfmarker} see what we 'd like to do , and {disfmarker} and this has been implicit in the discussion , is to do this in such a way that you get a lot of re - use . So . What you 're trying to get out of this deep co cognitive linguistics is the fact that w if you know about source {disfmarker} source , paths and goals , and nnn {comment} all this sort of stuff , that a lot of this is the same , for different tasks . And that {disfmarker} uh there 's {disfmarker} there 's some {disfmarker} some important generalities that you 're getting , so that you don't take each and every one of these tasks and hafta re - do it . And I don't yet see how that goes . Alright ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "There 're no primitives upon which {pause} uh" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "u u What are the primitives , and how do you break this {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So I y I 'm just {disfmarker} just there saying eee {comment} well you {disfmarker} I know how to do any individual case , right ? but I don't yet {disfmarker} see what 's the really interesting question is can you use uh deep uh cognitive linguistics to {pause} get powerful generalizations . And" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "um" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Maybe we sho should we a add then the \" what 's this ? \" domain ? N I mean , we have to \" how do I get to X \" . Then we also have the \" what 's this ? \" domain , where we get some slightly different {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Could . Uh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Um Johno , actually , does not allow us to call them \" intentions \" anymore ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So he {disfmarker} he dislikes the term ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , I {disfmarker} I don't like the term either , so I have n i uh i i y w i i It uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "But um , I 'm sure the \" what 's this ? \" questions also create some interesting X - schema aspects ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Could be . I 'm not a {disfmarker} I 'm not op particularly opposed to adding that or any other task ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I mean , eventually we 're gonna want a whole range of them ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "That 's right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I 'm just saying that I 'm gonna hafta do some sort of first principles thinking about this . I just at the moment don't know ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "H No . Well , no the Bayes {disfmarker} the Bayes - nets {disfmarker} The Bayes - nets will be dec specific for each decision . But what I 'd like to be able to do is to have the way that you extract properties , that will go into different Bayes - nets , be the {disfmarker} uh general . So that if you have sources , you have trajectors and stuff like that , and there 's a language for talking about trajectors , you shouldn't have to do that differently for uh uh going to something , than for circling it , for uh telling someone else how to go there ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Getting out of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "whatever it is . So that {disfmarker} that , the {disfmarker} the decision processes are gonna be different What you 'd really like of course is the same thing you 'd always like which is that you have um a kind of intermediate representation which looks the same o over a bunch of inputs and a bunch of outputs . So all sorts of different tasks {pause} and all sorts of different ways of expressing them use a lot of the same mechanism for pulling out what are the fundamental things going on . And that 's {disfmarker} that would be the really pretty result . And pushing it one step further , when you get to construction grammar and stuff , what you 'd like to be able to do is say you have this parser which is much fancier than the parser that comes with uh SmartKom , i that {disfmarker} that actually uses constructions and is able to tell from this construction that there 's uh something about the intent {disfmarker} you know , the actual what people wanna do or what they 're referring to and stuff , in independent of whether it {disfmarker} about {disfmarker} what is this or where is it or something , that you could tell from the construction , you could pull out deep semantic information which you 're gonna use in a general way . So that 's the {disfmarker} You might . You might . You might be able to {disfmarker} to uh say that this i this is the kind of construction in which the {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} Let 's say there 's a uh cont there {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the land the construction implies the there 's a con this thing is being viewed as a container . OK . So just from this local construction you know that you 're gonna hafta treat it as a container you might as well go off and get that information . And that may effect the way you process everything else . So if you say \" how do I get into the castle \" OK , then um {disfmarker} Or , you know , \" what is there in the castle \" or {disfmarker} so there 's all sorts of things you might ask that involve the castle as a container and you 'd like to have this orthogonal so that anytime the castle 's referred to as a container , you crank up the appropriate stuff . Independent of what the goal is , and independent of what the surrounding language is ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Alright , so that 's {disfmarker} that 's the {disfmarker} that 's the thesis level" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "It 's unfortunate also that English has sort of got rid of most of its spatial adverbs because they 're really fancy then , in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} for these kinds of analysis . But uh ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , you have prepositional phrases that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , but they 're {disfmarker} they 're easier for parsers ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Parsers can pick those up but {disfmarker} but the {disfmarker} with the spatial adverbs , they have a tough time . Because the {disfmarker} mean the semantics are very complex in that ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK , yeah ? I had one more {pause} thing . I don't remember . I just forgot it again . No . Oh yeah , b But an architecture like this would also enable us maybe to {disfmarker} to throw this away and {disfmarker} and replace it with something else , or whatever , so that we have {disfmarker} so that this is sort of the representational formats we 're {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we 're talking about that are independent of the problem , that generalize over those problems , and are oh , t of a higher quality than an any actual whatever um belief - net , or \" X \" that we may use for the decision making , ultimately . Should be decoupled , yeah . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . So , are we gonna be meeting here from now on ? I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm happy to do that . We {disfmarker} we had talked about it , cuz you have th th the display and everything , that seems fine ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , um , Liz also asks whether we 're gonna have presentations every time . I don't think we will need to do that but it 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "so far I think it was nice as a visual aid for some things and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh yeah . No I {disfmarker} I think it 's worth it to ass to meet here to bring this , and assume that something may come up that we wanna look at ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I mean . Why not ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "And um . Yeah , that was my {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "She was good . Litonya was good ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ? The uh {disfmarker} um , she w she was definitely good in the sense that she {disfmarker} she showed us some of the weaknesses" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and um also the um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the fact that she was a real subject you know , is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . Yeah , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} yeah and {disfmarker} and she took it seriously and stuff l No , it was great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So I think that um {disfmarker} I mean , w Looking {disfmarker} just looking at this data , listening to it , what can we get out of it in terms of our problem , for example , is , you know , she actually m said {disfmarker} you know , she never s just spoke about entering , she just wanted to get someplace , and she said for buying stuff . Nuh ? So this is definitely interesting , and {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Um , and in the other case , where she wanted to look at the stuff at the graffiti , also , of course , not in the sentence \" How do you get there ? \" was pretty standard . Nuh ? except that there was a nice anaphora , you know , for pointing at what she talked about before , and there she was talking about looking at pictures that are painted inside a wall on walls , so" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Actually , you 'd need a lot of world knowledge . This would have been a classical um uh \" Tango \" , actually . Um , because graffiti is usually found on the outside and not on the inside ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "but OK . So the mistake {comment} would have make a mistake {disfmarker} the system would have made a mistake here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Click ? Alright ." } ] }, { "topic_list": [ { "topic": "Data collection", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "1", "39" ] ] }, { "topic": "Parser ", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "40", "184" ] ] }, { "topic": "XML-Object interaction ", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "185", "310" ] ] }, { "topic": "Technical implementation", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "311", "708" ] ] } ], "general_query_list": [ { "query": "Summarize the meeting.", "answer": "The meeting discussed various topics such as data collection and updates on the German parser. They discussed XML modifications and future thoughts on the ontology. Additionally, object representations will include an EVA vector. This can be incorporated in the database entry for a particular building or inherited from the ontology of the building type. The actual number of the inputs can create a combinatorial explosion when setting the probabilities. In any case, further to fulfilling the basic requirements (translating the parser and the generator into english), the project is entirely open-ended in terms of focus of research." } ], "specific_query_list": [ { "query": "What was the advantage of using Noisy-ORs?", "answer": "The actual number of the inputs in the Bayes-net can create a combinatorial explosion when setting the probabilities. Noisy-OR's can help avoid this by simplifying the probability tables and applying a deterministic function to produce their complete version.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "502", "517" ] ] }, { "query": "What was suggested to incorporate the EVA into the Bayes-net?", "answer": "Object representations will include an EVA vector. This can be incorporated in the database entry for a particular building or inherited from the ontology of the building type. As the project evolves, further enrichment of the ontology (actions, linguistic features) will be necessary.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "600", "680" ] ] }, { "query": "What was said about data collection?", "answer": "As the data collection is about to begin, there are some minor changes to be done in the design of the experiment, the script and the permission forms. Subjects can be recruited either from within the university or through other social circles.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "6", "17" ] ] }, { "query": "What did the team say about interaction of data participants with their data?", "answer": "The team wanted the data participants to minimize their contact with their data. They wanted them to sign a waiver first not to view the transcript by default only allowing them to view it.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "20", "39" ] ] } ], "meeting_transcripts": [ { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah , I think I got my mike on . OK . Let 's see ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . Ami , do yours then we 'll open it and I think it 'll be enough ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mmm {disfmarker} Doesn't , uh {disfmarker} It should be the other way . Yeah , now it 's on ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . So , we all switched on ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "We are all switched on , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Alright . Anyway . So , uh , before we get started with the , uh , technical part , I just want to review what I think is happening with the {disfmarker} our data collection ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "We are all switched on ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh , probably after today , {vocalsound} that shouldn't come up in this meeting . Th - this {disfmarker} this is s should be im it isn't {disfmarker} There 's another thing going on of gathering data , and that 's pretty much independent of this . But , uh , I just want to make sure we 're all together on this . What we think is gonna happen is that , uh , in parallel starting about now {vocalsound} we 're gonna get Fey {vocalsound} to , where you 're working with me and Robert , draft a note that we 're gonna send out to various CogSci c and other classes saying , \" here 's an opportunity to be a subject . Contact Fey . \" And then there 'll be a certain number of um , hours during the week which she will be available and we 'll bring in people . Uh , roughly how many , Robert ? We d Do we know ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , fifty was our {disfmarker} sort of our first {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . So , we 're looking for a total of fifty people , not necessarily by any means all students but we 'll s we 'll start with {disfmarker} with that . In parallel with that , we 're gonna need to actually do the script . And , so , I guess there 's a plan to have a meeting Friday afternoon Uh , with {disfmarker} uh , Jane , and maybe Liz and whoever , on actually getting the script worked out . But what I 'd like to do , if it 's O K , {vocalsound} is to s to , as I say , start the recruiting in parallel and possibly start running subjects next week . The week after that 's Spring Break , and maybe we 'll look for them {disfmarker} some subjects next door" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "or {pause} i" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Also , Fey will not be here during spring break ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , OK , then we won't do it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . So that 's easy . Um . So , is {disfmarker} Is that make sense to everybody ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Also , um , F {vocalsound} both Fey and I will , um , {vocalsound} do something of which I may , eh {disfmarker} kindly ask you to {disfmarker} to do the same thing , which is we gonna check out our social infrastructures for possible subjects . Meaning , {vocalsound} um , kid children 's gymnastic classes , pre - school parents and so forth . They also sometimes have flexible schedules . So , if you happen to be sort of in a non - student social setting , and you know people who may be interested in being subjects {disfmarker} We also considered using the Berkeley High School and their teachers , maybe , and get them interested in stuff ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "That 's a good idea ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , um . So that 's as far as our brainstorming was concerned ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , yeah . The high school 's a great idea ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So . But I {disfmarker} I will just make a first draft of the , uh , note , the \" write - up \" note , send it to you and Fey and then {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And why don't you also copy Jane on it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , um , Are we {disfmarker} Have we concurred that , uh , these {disfmarker} these forms are sufficient for us , and necessary ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh , th I think they 're necessary . This {disfmarker} The permission form ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh , there has to be one ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Nuh . N ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "and I think we 're just gonna use it as it is , and {pause} Um" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "N . You happy with that ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , yeah . There 's one tricky part about , um , they have the right um I The last paragraph {comment} \" if you agree to participate you have the opportunity to have anything excised which you would prefer not to have included in the data set . \" OK ? Now that , we had to be included for this other one which might have , uh , meetings , you know , about something ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "In this case , it doesn't really make sense . Um , so what I 'd like to do is also have our subjects sign a waiver saying \" I don't want to see the final transcript \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And if they don't {disfmarker} If they say \" no , I 'm not willing to sign that \" , then we 'll show them the final transcript . But , um ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep . Makes sense ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "That , uh {disfmarker} yeah , so we might actually , um S i Jane may say that , \" you know , you can't do this \" , uh , \" on the same form , we need a separate form . \" But anyway . I 'd {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} I 'd like to , e e um , add an a little thi eh {disfmarker} a thing for them to initial , saying \" nah , do I don't want to see the final transcript . \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "But other than that , that 's one 's been approved , this really is the same project , uh , rec you know . And so forth . So I think we just go with it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Yeah . OK . So much for the data , except that with Munich everything is fine now . They 're gonna {vocalsound} transcribe . They 're also gonna translate the , uh , German data from the TV and cinema stuff for Andreas . So . They 're {disfmarker} they all seem to be happy now , {vocalsound} with that . So . w c sh should we move on to the technical sides ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well I guess the good {disfmarker} good news of last week was the parser . So , um Bhaskara and I started working on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the parser . Then Bhaskara went to class and once he came back , um , {vocalsound} it was finished . So . It , uh {disfmarker} I didn't measure it , but it was about an hour and ten minutes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , um {disfmarker} and now it 's {disfmarker} We have a complete English parser that does everything the German parser does ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Something like that ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Which is {vocalsound} not a lot . But {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "That 's the , uh , point ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The {disfmarker} uh , that 's not a lot ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "What did you end up having to do ? I mean , wha Was there anything {pause} interesting about it at all ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , if you , eh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "We 'll show you ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , we can show us ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "or are we gonna see that ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , w w We d The first we did is we {disfmarker} we tried to {disfmarker} to do {disfmarker} change the {disfmarker} the \" laufen \" into \" run \" , {vocalsound} or \" running \" , {vocalsound} or \" runs \" ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And we noticed that whatever we tried to do , it no effect ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And we were puzzled ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , uh , the reason was that the parser i c completely ignores the verb ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So this sentence {disfmarker} sentence is {disfmarker} parses the p the same output ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Hmm . Interesting parser property ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um , even if you leave out , um , all {disfmarker} all of this ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I see . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So it 's basically feature film and TV ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Today" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "That 's what you need ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "If {disfmarker} if you 'd add {disfmarker} add Today and Evening , it 'll add Time or not ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "And the {disfmarker} t and the time , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So it {disfmarker} i it does look at that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But all the rest is p simply frosting on the cake , and it 's optional for that parser ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "True ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , you can sho You {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} Are {disfmarker} are you gonna show us the little templates ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "S" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . We ar we can sh er {disfmarker} I can show you the templates . I {disfmarker} I also have it running here ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "The former end g \" Oh , I see . Uh - huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "so if I {vocalsound} do this now , um , {vocalsound} you can see that it parsed the wonderful English sentence , \" Which films are on the cinema today {pause} evening ? \" But , um ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , that sounds {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Uh do don't worry about it ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "No i" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It could be \" this evening , which {disfmarker} which films are on the cinema \" , or \" running in the cinema , which {disfmarker} \" uh , \" today evening \" , uh i \" Is anything happening in the cinema this evening ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK . OK . Key words , e basically ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Ge - elaborate , or , more or less , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Actually , it 's a little tricky , in that there 's some allowable German orders which aren't allowable English orders and so forth . And it is order - based . So it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} Isn't it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "No ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh . So it {disfmarker} it doe I it {disfmarker} These {disfmarker} u these optional elements ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It is not {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "it 's {disfmarker} it 's actually a set , not a sequence ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . We were {disfmarker} I was afraid that , um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh !" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "So it really is key word matching , basically ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Really a se" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "e yeah . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , wow ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , I mean , these sentences are just silly ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , uh , d these were not the ones we {disfmarker} we actually did it . Um . What 's an idiomatic of phrasing this ? Which films are {pause} showing ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Are pl playing at the cinema ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "playing ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Tonight ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I changed that file , actually , where it 's on my account ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "This {disfmarker} this evening ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Actually , you would say , \" which films are on tonight ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "You want to get it ? Or {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} di was it easy to get it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um . I have no net here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Do I ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . So . Wonderful parse , same thing . Um ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Except that we d w we don't have this , uh , time information here now , which is , um {disfmarker} Oh . This {disfmarker} are the reserve . Anyways . {vocalsound} So . Um . These are the {disfmarker} sort of the ten different sentence types that the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the parser was able to do . And it still is , now in English ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , um {disfmarker} Sorry . And , um you have already to make it a little bit more elaborate , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , I mean I changed those sentences to make it , uh , more , uh , idiomatic . And , of course , you can have i many variations in those sentences , they will still parse fine . So , in a sense it 's pretty broad ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . So , if you want to look at the templates , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} they 're conveniently located in a file , \" template \" . Um , and this is what I had to do . I had to change , @ @ {comment} \" Spielfilm \" to \" film \" , uh , \" Film \" to \" movie \" , cinem \" Kino \" to \" cinema \" {disfmarker} to \" today \" {disfmarker} heu \" heute \" to \" today \" ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "evening {disfmarker} \" Abend \" to \" evening \"" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Capitalized as well" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , um ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Y i" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "One thing I was wondering , was , those functions there , are those things that modify the M - three - L basically ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And that 's {disfmarker} that 's the next step ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "p" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "but we 'll get to that in a second ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And so this means , um , \" this \" and \" see \" are not optional . \" Want I like \" is all maybe in there , but may also not be in there ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So {disfmarker} so , the point is , if it says \" this \" and \" see \" , it also will work in \" see \" and \" this \" ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "S" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "In the other order ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "with those two key words ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Should we try it ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "\" This is the one I want to see \" or whatever ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . \" Action watch \" ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "whatever . Nothing was specialfi specified . except that it has some references to audio - visual media here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "AV medium ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Where it gets that from {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's correct , but I don't know where it gets it from ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "\" See \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Oh , \" see \" . Yeah . Yeah . Yep . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I mean it 's sort of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And \" see this \" {comment} is exactly the same thing ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK , so it is set - based . Alright ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "One thing I was wondering was , {vocalsound} those percentage signs , right ? So , I mean , why do we even have them ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Because {disfmarker} if you didn't have them {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Uh , I 'll tell you why . Because it gives a {disfmarker} you a score ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And the value of the score is , v I assume , I guess , the more of these optional things that are actually in there , the higher the r score {vocalsound} it is ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh . OK . So that 's the main purpose . Alright ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "It 's a match ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So we {disfmarker} we shouldn't belittle it too much . It 's doing something , some things , and it 's very flexible . I 've just tried to" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "be nice ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "No , no . Fine ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Right {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , yeah , yeah , flexible it is ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "But {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . {vocalsound} Um , let 's hope that the generation will not be more difficult , even though the generator is a little bit more complex . Uh but we 'll {disfmarker} Mmm , that means we may need two hours and twenty minutes rather than an hour ten minutes ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Alright ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I hope ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And the next thing I would like to be able to do , and it seems like this would not be too difficult either , is {vocalsound} to say , \" OK let 's now pretend we actually wanted to not only change the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the mapping of {disfmarker} of , uh , words to the M - three - L but we also wanted to change {disfmarker} add a new sentence type and and make up some {disfmarker} some new M - three - L {disfmarker} s \"" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yep . So That 'd be great . It would be a good exercise to just see {vocalsound} whether one can get that to run ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "See th Mm - hmm . {vocalsound} Yep . And , um ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So , that 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "that 's {disfmarker} shouldn't be too tough ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Fine , yeah . Yeah , so where are those {disfmarker} those functions \" Action \" , \" Goodbye \" , and so on , right ? Are they actually , um , {vocalsound} Are they going to be called ? Um , are they present in the code for the parser ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . I think what it does , it i i it does something sort of fancy . It loads um {disfmarker} It has these style sheets and also the , um , schemata . So what it probably does , is it takes the , uh , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} Is this where it is ? This is already the XML stuff ? This is where it takes its own , um , syntax , and converts it somehow . Um . Where is the uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "What are you looking for ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , where it actually produces the {disfmarker} the XML out of the , uh , parsed {pause} stuff ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No , this is not it . Uh . I can't find it now . You mean , where the {disfmarker} where the act how the action \" Goodbye \" maps into something {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah , where are those constructors defined ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Nope ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "No , that 's not it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . This is sort of what happens . This is what you would need to {disfmarker} to change {disfmarker} to get the , uh , XML changed . So when it encounts encounters \" Day \" , {vocalsound} it will , uh , activate those h classes in the {disfmarker} in the XML stuff But , um {disfmarker} I saw those actions {disfmarker} uh , the \" Goodbye \" stuff somewhere . Hmm , hmm , hmm , hmm , hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Grep for it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Let 's do that . Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm . M - three - L dot DTD ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "That 's just a {pause} specification for the XML format ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep . Well , we 'll find that out . So whatever {disfmarker} n this does {disfmarker} I mean this is , basically , looks l to me like a function call , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Hmm ? Oh , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , um {disfmarker} So , whenever it {disfmarker} it encounters \" Goodbye \" , which we can make it do in a second , here" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "That function automatically generates an initialized XML structure ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I think each of those functions act on the current XML structure , and change it in some way , for example , by adding a {disfmarker} a l a field to it , or something ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "y Yeah . They also seem to affect state ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "cause some of them {disfmarker} there were other actions uh , that {disfmarker} that s seemed to step {disfmarker} state variables somewhere ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "like the n s \" Discourse Status Confirm \" . OK . So that 's going to be a call on the discourse" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "and {vocalsound} confirm that it 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "W we Mm - hmm" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh , you mean that 's not going to actually modify the tree ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I think that 's right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "e" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "but it 's going to change the event ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I think it 's actually {disfmarker} That looks like it 's state modification ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh . Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "e mmm Um , well i There is a feature called \" Discourse - Status \" ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "When there 's a feature ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And so whenever I just say , \" Write \" , it will {disfmarker} it will put this in here ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , so it always just {disfmarker} Is it {disfmarker} So it {disfmarker} Well , go back , then , cuz it may be that all those th things , while they look like function calls , are just a way of adding exactly that to the XML ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "h Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh - huh ! I 'm not {disfmarker} I 'm not sure ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So , this {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "e I 'm not sure {disfmarker} e that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um {disfmarker} well , we {disfmarker} we 'll see , when we say , let 's test something , \" Goodbye \" , causes it to c to create basically an \" Action Goodbye - End - Action \" ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Which is a means of telling the system to shut down ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Now , if we know that \" Write \" produces a \" Feature Discourse - Status Confirm Discourse - Status \" . So if I now say \" Write , Goodbye , \" it should do that . It sho it creates this ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "\" Confirm Goodbye \" ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Right there . But there is some kind of function call , because how does it know to put Goodbye in Content , but , uh , Confirm in Features ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Oh . It d it {disfmarker} n That 's because {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So So , it 's not just that it 's adding that field ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "It 's" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Absolutely . Good point ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} It 's under what sub - type you 're doing it . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "It 's mystery functions ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , sometimes it m Sometimes , i" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Well , they 're defined somewhere , presumably ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , each is {disfmarker} S so that 's funny ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "When it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "You bury the s the state in the function Alright ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , it just automatically initializes things that are common , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So it 's just a shorthand ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "For example {disfmarker} Oh , this is German . Sorry . e So , now , this , it cannot do anymore . Nothing comes out of here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "A \" not a number \" is a value . Awesome ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So , it doesn't speak German anymore , but it does speak English . And there is , here , a reference {disfmarker} So , this tells us that whatever is {disfmarker} has the ID \" zero \" is referenced here {disfmarker} by @ @ {comment} the restriction seed and this is exa \" I want {disfmarker} \" What was the sentence ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "\" I want two seats here . \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "\" need two seats here . \" Nuh . \" And where is it playing ? \" There should also be a reference to something , maybe . Our d This is re um Mmm . Here , we change {disfmarker} and so , we {disfmarker} Here we add something to the Discourse - Status , that the user wants to change something that was sort of done before And , uh {disfmarker} and that , whatever is being changed has something to do with the cinema ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So then , whatever takes this M - three - L is what actually changes the state , not the {disfmarker} Yeah , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "No , right , the Discourse Maintainer ," }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "yeah . I see . And it {disfmarker} and it runs around looking for Discourse Status tags , and doing whatever it does with them . And other people ignore those tags . Alright . So , yeah . I definitely think it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It 's worth the exercise of trying to actually add something that isn't there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh Disc" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sort of get a complete understanding of the whole thing ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , a kid understanding what 's going on . Then the next thing we talked about is actually , {vocalsound} um , figuring out how to add our own tags , and stuff like that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . Point number two . I got the , uh , M - three - L for the routes today . Uh , so I got some more . This is sort of the uh , {vocalsound} um , Hmm . Interesting . It 's just going up , it 's not going back down . So , this is {disfmarker} um , what I got today is {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the new {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} M - three - L for um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} the Maps ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "uh , and with some examples {disfmarker} So , this is the XML and this is sort of what it will look like later on , even though it {disfmarker} you can't see it on {disfmarker} on this resolution . And this is what it {disfmarker} sort of is the {disfmarker} the structure of Map requests , um also not very interesting , and here is the more interesting stuff for us , is the routes , route elements , and , again , as we thought it 's really simple . This is sort of the , uh , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} parameters . We have @ @ {comment} simple \" from objects \" and \" to objects \" and so forth , points of interest along the way {disfmarker} And , um , I asked them whether or not we could , um {disfmarker} First of all , I was little bit {disfmarker} It seemed to me that this m way of doing it is sort of a stack a step backwards from the way we 've done it before . t It seems to me that some notions were missing ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "S" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So these are {disfmarker} these are {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So these are {disfmarker} these are your friends back at EML ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep . Who are doing this ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So this is not a complicated negotiation . There 's {disfmarker} there 's not seven committees , or anything , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No . No , this is very straightforward ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Great . So this is just trying to {disfmarker} It 's a design thing , not a political thing . Once we 've {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker} We can just sort of agree on what oughta be done ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Good ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Exactly . And , um {disfmarker} And , uh {disfmarker} However , the , uh {disfmarker} e So that you understand , it is really simple . Uh {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you have a route , and you cut it up in different pieces . And every {disfmarker} every element of that e r r f of that {disfmarker} Every segment we call a \" route element \" . And so , from A to B we cut up in three different steps , and every step has a \" from object \" where you start , a \" to object \" where y where {pause} you sort of end , and some points of interest along the way . What w I was sort of missing here , and uh , maybe it was just me being too stupid , is , {vocalsound} I didn't sort of get the {disfmarker} the notion of the global goal of the whole route . Really , s was not straightforward visibly for me . And some other stuff . And I {vocalsound} suggested that they should n be {disfmarker} k uh , kind enough to do s two things for us , is one , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Also allocating , uh , some tags for our Action Schema Enter - Vista - Approach , and {disfmarker} And also , um , since you had suggested that {disfmarker} that , um , we figure out if we ever , for a demo reason , wanted to shortcut directly to the g GIS and the Planner , of how we can do it . Now , what 's the state of the art of getting to entrances , um , what 's the syntax for that , how get getting to {vocalsound} vista points and calculating those on the spot . And the Approach mode , anyhow , is the default . That 's all they do it these days . Wherever you 'll find a route planner it n does nothing but get to the closest point where the street network is {vocalsound} at minimal distance to the geometric center ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": " So ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , well , let {disfmarker} Now , this is important . Let , uh {disfmarker} I want a a Again , outside of m almost managerial point , um {disfmarker} You 're in the midst of this , so you know better . But it seems to me it 's probably a good idea to li uh {disfmarker} minimize the number of uh , change requests we make of them . So it seemed to me , what we ought to do is get our story together . OK ? And think about it some , internally , before asking them to make changes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh . Does this {disfmarker} does this make sense to you guys ? It {disfmarker} I mean you 're {disfmarker} you 're doing the {disfmarker} the interaction but it seemed to me that {vocalsound} what we ought to do is come up with a {disfmarker} uh , something where you , um {disfmarker} And I {disfmarker} I don't know who 's mok working most closely on it . Probably Johno . OK . Uh , take what they have , send it to everybody saying \" this is what they have , this is what we think we should add \" , OK ? and then have a d a {disfmarker} an iteration within our group saying \" Hmm , well {disfmarker} \" OK ? And get our best idea of what we should add ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And then go back to them . Is i or , I don't know does this make sense to you ? Or" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Especially if we want {disfmarker} Sort of , what I {disfmarker} my feeling was eh we {disfmarker} we sort of reserved something that has a r eh an OK label . That 's {disfmarker} th that was my th first sort of step ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I w No matter how we want to call it , {vocalsound} this is sort of our playground ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And if we get something in there that is a structure elaborate and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and complex enough to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to maybe enable a whole simulation , one of these days , that would be {disfmarker} u the {disfmarker} the perfect goal ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . That 's right . So . So , Yeah . The problem isn't the short ra range optimization . It 's the sort of {disfmarker} o one or two year kind of thing . OK . What are the thl class of things we think we might try to do in a year or two ? How {disfmarker} how would we try to characterize those and what do we want to request now {vocalsound} that 's leave enough space to do all that stuff ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And that re that requires some thought ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And {disfmarker} so that sounds like a great thing to do {vocalsound} as the priority item um , as soon as we can do it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So y so you guys will {vocalsound} send to the rest of us um {pause} {vocalsound} a version of um , this , and {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} uh , description {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "With sugge yeah , suggested improvements and {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well b Yeah . So , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} Not everyone uh , reads German , so if you 'd um" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "tu uh , tur change the description to , uh , English" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "and , um , Then {disfmarker} then , yeah . Then , with some sug s suggestions about where {disfmarker} where do we go from here ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh , this {disfmarker} and this , of course , was just the {vocalsound} {vocalsound} action end . Uh , at some point we 're going to have to worry about the language end . But for the moment just {vocalsound} uh , t for this class of {disfmarker} of things , we might want to try to encompass . And {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Then the scope of this is beyond {pause} Approach and Vis - or Vista . Yeah , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , yeah , yeah yeah yeah . This is {disfmarker} this is everything that {disfmarker} that , um , {pause} {vocalsound} you know , um {pause} we might want to do in the next couple years ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah , yeah . So what would {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "We don't {disfmarker} I mean , that 's an issue . We don't know what , entirely ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Uh , yeah . but I 'm just {disfmarker} But the {disfmarker} Yeah , OK . So I just {disfmarker} this XML stuff here just has to do with Source - Path - Goal type stuff , in terms of traveling through Heidelberg ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Or travel , specifically ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So , but this O Is the domain greater than that ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "No ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I think {disfmarker} I think the i the idea is {pause} that {disfmarker} Oh . It 's beyond Source - Path - Goal , but I think we don't need to get beyond it @ @ {comment} {disfmarker} tourists in Heidelberg ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "It seems to me we can get {vocalsound} all the complexity we want in actions and in language without going outside of tourists in Heidelberg . OK ? But you know , i depending on what people are interested in , one could have , {vocalsound} uh , tours , one could have {vocalsound} um , explanations of why something is {disfmarker} is , you know , why {disfmarker} why was this done , or {disfmarker} I mean , no {disfmarker} there 's no end to the complexity you can build into the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh , what a tourist in Heidelberg might ask ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , at least {disfmarker} unless somebody else wants t to suggest otherwise I think {vocalsound} the general domain we don't have t to uh , broaden . That is , tourists in Heidelberg . And if there 's something somebody comes up with that can't be done that way , then , sure . W we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll look at that , but {vocalsound} uh I 'd be s I I 'd be surprised at {disfmarker} if there 's any {disfmarker} {vocalsound} important issue that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} And , um {disfmarker} I mean if {disfmarker} if you want to {pause} uh , push us into reference problems , that would be great ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK , so this is {disfmarker} his specialty is {disfmarker} reference ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "and {disfmarker} you know , what {disfmarker} what are these things referring to ? Not only {vocalsound} anaphora , but , uh , more generally the , uh {disfmarker} this whole issue of , uh , referring expressions , and , what is it that they 're actually dealing with in the world ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And , again , this is li in the databa this is also pretty well formed because there is an ontology , and the database , and stuff . So it isn't like , {vocalsound} um , you know , the Evening Star or stuff like that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I i it {disfmarker} All the entities do have concrete reference . Although th the {vocalsound} To get at them from a language may not be trivial ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "There aren't really deep mysteries about um , what w what things the system knows about ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right . Right . And you have both proper names and descriptions" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "All those things ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "and y and you can ask for it ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . You have proper names , and descriptions ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And a l and a lot {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and anaphora , and pronouns ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Nuh ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "and {pause} all those things ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Now , we hav the {disfmarker} the whole {disfmarker} Unfortunately , the whole database is , uh , {vocalsound} in German . We have just commissioned someone to translate some bits of it , IE the e the shortest k the {disfmarker} the more general descriptions of all the objects and , um , persons and events . So , it 's a relational database with persons , events , {vocalsound} and , um , objects . And it 's {disfmarker} it 's quite , um , {vocalsound} there . But did y I {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I think there will be great because the reference problem really is not trivial , even if you have such a g well - defined world ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "He knows ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Ah - he you are not , uh , throwing uh , uh , carrying owls to Athens ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Could you give me an example of a reference problem ? so {disfmarker} so l I can make it more concrete ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} How do I get to the Powder - Tower ? We sort of t think that our bit in this problem is interesting , but , just to get from Powder - Tower to an object I ID in a database is also not really trivial ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Or {disfmarker} or if you take something even more scary , um , \" how do I get to the third building after the Tower ? the Ple - Powder - Tower ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Uh , you need some mechanism for" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . Or , you know , the church across from City Hall , or {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Or the re the restaurant where they wear lederhosen ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Or the" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Or is that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , that would be fine ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "O or {disfmarker} or tower , or this tower , or that building , or {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Uniquely ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK . Trying to {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Or you can say \" how {disfmarker} \" you know , \" how do I get back ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . And , again , it 's just a question of which of these things , uh , people want to {vocalsound} dive into . What , uh , I think I 'm gonna try to do , and I guess , pwww ! let 's say that by the end of spring break , I 'll try to come up with some {vocalsound} general story about , um , construction grammar , and what constructions we 'd use and how all this might fit together . There 's this whole framework problem that I 'm feeling really uncomfortable about . And I haven't had a chance to {vocalsound} think about it seriously . But I {disfmarker} I want to {disfmarker} I want to do that early , rather than late . And you and I will probably have to talk about this some ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "u u u u That 's what strikes me , that we sort of {disfmarker} the de g uh , small {disfmarker} Something , uh , maybe we should address one of these days , is to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That most of the work people actually always do is look at some statements , and {disfmarker} and analyze those . Whether it 's abstracts or newspapers and stuff like this ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But the whole {disfmarker} i is it {disfmarker} is it really relevant that we are dealing mostly with , sort of , questions ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , yeah ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Uh , you know {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , I mean yeah , I d" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And this is {disfmarker} It seems to me that we should maybe at least spend a session or {disfmarker} or brainstorm a little bit about whether that l this is special case in that sense ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , I don't know . You know {disfmarker} Did we ever find m metaphorical use in {disfmarker} in questions in {disfmarker} in that sense , really ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "You will ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And how soon ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I don't know ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I mean , uh , we could take all the standard metaphor examples and make question versions of them . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "\" Who got kicked out of France ? \"" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Muh" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , or , you know . \" Wh - why is he {disfmarker} why is he pushing for promotion ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Nuh ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "or , \" who 's pushing proof \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Nuh ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "er , just pick {disfmarker} pick any of them and just {vocalsound} do the {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So I don't {disfmarker} I don't think , {vocalsound} uh , it 's at all difficult {disfmarker} Uh , to convert them to question forms that really exist and people say all the time , um {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} sort of {disfmarker} we don't know how to handle them , too . Right ? I mean , it 's {disfmarker} I d It {disfmarker} We don't know how to handle the declarative forms , @ @ {comment} really , and , then , the interrogative forms , ah - oh . Uh . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Ooo !" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Nancy , it looked like you were s" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Oh . it 's just that {disfmarker} that the goals are g very different to cases {disfmarker} So we had this problem last year when we first thought about this domain , actually , was that {vocalsound} most of the things we talked about are our story understanding ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Uh , we 're gonna have a short discourse and {vocalsound} the person talking is trying to , I don't know , give you a statement and tell you something . And here , {vocalsound} it 's th" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Help you create a mental model , blah - blah - blah . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yea - eh {disfmarker} y Yeah , I guess so ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "And then here , y you are j uh , the person is getting information and they or may not be following some larger plan , {vocalsound} you know , that we have to recognize or , you know , infer . And th th the {disfmarker} their discourse patterns probably {nonvocalsound} don't follo follow quite as many {vocalsound} logical connec" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . No , I think that 's one of things that 's interesting , is {disfmarker} is in this sort of over - arching story we {disfmarker} we worked it out for th as you say , this {disfmarker} the storytelling scenario ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And I think it 's really worth thinking through {vocalsound} {vocalsound} what it looks like ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "What is the simspec mean , et cetera ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm . M Right . Cuz for a while we were thinking , \" well , how can we change the , {vocalsound} um , data to sort of illicit tha {vocalsound} illicit , um , actions that are more like what we are used to ? \" But obviously we would rather , you know , try to figure out what 's {disfmarker} what 's , you know {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , I don't know . I mean , maybe {disfmarker} maybe that 's what we 'll do is {disfmarker} is s u e We can do anything we want with it . I mean , once we have fulfilled these requirements ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yep . Mmm {disfmarker} Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK , and the one for next uh , summer is just half done and then the other half is this , um , \" generation thing \" which we think isn't much different ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So once that 's done , then all the rest of it is , uh , sort of , you know , what we want to do for the research . And we can {disfmarker} w we can do all sorts of things that don't fit into their framework at all . Th - there 's no reason why we 're c we 're constrained to do that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "If we can use all the , uh , execution engines , then we can , {vocalsound} you know , really {nonvocalsound} try things that would be too {disfmarker} too much pain to do ourselves ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "But there 's no obligation on any of this . So , if we want to turn it into u understan standing stories about Heidelberg , we can do that . I mean , that would just be a t a um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Or , as a matter of fact , we need {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and if we if we ' r eh {disfmarker} take a ten year perspective , we need to do that , because w e w a Assuming we have this , um , we we ta in that case we actually do have these wonderful stories , and historical anecdotes ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and knights jumping out of windows ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and - and - and {disfmarker} {comment} {comment} tons of stuff . So , th the database is huge , and if we want to answer a question on that , we actually have to go one step before that , and understand that . In order to e do sensible information extraction ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "You might , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And so , um , this has been a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a Deep Map research issue that was {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is part of the unresolved , and to - do 's , and something for the future , is {vocalsound} how can we sort of run our our text , our content , through a machine {vocalsound} that will enable us , later , to retrieve or answer e questions more sensibly ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Mwa Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm . Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . Anyway . S Who 's going ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "So , uh {disfmarker} So , uh , I was just going to ask , um , {vocalsound} so , what is the {disfmarker} the basic thing that {disfmarker} that you are , um , obligated to do , um , uh , by the summer before w uh y c we can move {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Ah ! OK . So {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker} Yeah . So , what happened is , there 's this , eh , uh {disfmarker} Robert was describing the {disfmarker} There 's two packages there 's a , uh , quote parser , there 's a particular piece {vocalsound} of this big system , which , in German , uh , takes these t sentence templates and produces XML structures . And one of our jobs was to make the English equivalent of that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "That , these guys did in a {disfmarker} in a day ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "The other thing is , at the other end , roughly at the same level , there 's something that takes , uh , X M L structures , produces an output XML structure which is instructions for the generator ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ? And then there 's a language generator , and then after that a s a synthesizer that goes from an XML structure to , uh , language generation , to actual specifications for a synthesizer . Eh , but again , there 's one module in which there 's one piece {vocalsound} that we have to convert to English ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right . Right . Got it ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Is that {disfmarker} OK . And that {disfmarker} But as I say , this is {disfmarker} all along was viewed as a kind of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a m a minor thing , necessary , but {disfmarker} but not {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And much more interesting is the fact that , {vocalsound} as part of doing this , we {disfmarker} we are , you know , inheriting this system that does all sort of these other {vocalsound} things ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "That 's great ! Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Not precisely what we want , and that 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's wh where it {disfmarker} it gets difficult . And I {disfmarker} I don't pretend to understand yet what I think we really ought to do ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . So , e enough of that , but I , uh , um , mmm , the e sort of , Johno and I will take up that responsibility , and , um , get a first draft of that . Now , we have um just , I think two more short things ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , y you guys sort of started fighting , uh , on the Bayes - net \" Noisy - OR \" front ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm . Yeah , I thought I should , um , talk a little bit about that , because that might be a good , uh , sort of architecture to have , in general for , uh , problems with , {vocalsound} you know , multiple inputs to a node ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Good ! OK . Good . And what 's the other one ? so that {disfmarker} just we know what the d agenda is ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , the Wu paper , I think maybe {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , yeah . I 've got a couple new Wu papers as well . Uh , so I {disfmarker} I 've been in contact with Wu , so , probably let 's put that off till I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} till I understand better , {vocalsound} uh , what he 's doing . It 's just a little embarrassing cause all this was in his thesis and I was on his thesis committee , and , so , {vocalsound} I r really knew this at one time ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Ugh ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "But , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} It 's not only uh Is {disfmarker} Part of what I haven't figured out yet is {disfmarker} is how all this goes together . So I 'll dig up some more stuff from Dekai . And {disfmarker} so why don't we just do the , uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK . So {disfmarker} should I {disfmarker} Is there a white board here that I can use ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . You could {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "squealing sound ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Or shall I just use this ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "It 's probably just as easy . I" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "You can put the microphone in your pocket ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hey !" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "I was envying you and your pocket cause I don't have one ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "It was a quick one , huh ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "That 's why they invented \" pocket T 's \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "exactly" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "They have clips !" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Recall that , uh , we want to have this kind of structure in our Bayes - nets . Namely , that , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} You have these nodes that have several bands , right ? So {disfmarker} Does I mean , they sort of {disfmarker} the typical example is that , um , these are all a bunch of cues for something , and this is a certain effect that we 'd like to conclude . So , uh {disfmarker} Like , let 's just look at the case when , um , this is actually the {disfmarker} the final action , right ? So this is like , uh , {vocalsound} you know , touch ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Y" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "or {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "E - EVA" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Sorry . Uh" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , E - {vocalsound} EVA , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Enter , V View , Approach , right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "W what was this ? It {disfmarker} i i i ehhh , {comment} i ehhh ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Wri - write it out for for {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So , this is {disfmarker} Yeah . Enter ," }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "I mean {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "View , Approach ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Right . So , I mean , we 'd like to {disfmarker} take all these various cues , right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Like the army ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So this one might be , say , uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "New terminology ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Well , let me pick a random one" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I haven't heard that before ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and say , uh {disfmarker} I don't know , it could be , like {disfmarker} {vocalsound} This isn't the way it really is , but let me say {disfmarker} that , suppose someone mentioned , uh , admission fees Ah , it takes too long . Try {disfmarker} let me just say \" Landmark \" . If the thing is a landmark , you know , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} then there 's another thing that says if {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} if it 's closed or not , at the moment . Alright , so you have nodes . Right ? And the , uh , problem that we were having was that , you know , given N - nodes , there 's \" two to the N \" Given N - nodes , and furthermore , the fact that there 's three things here , we need to specify \" three times \" , uh , \" two to the N \" probabilities . Right ? That 's assuming these are all binary , which f they may not be . For example , they could be \" time of day \" , in which case we could , uh , say , you know , \" Morning , afternoon , evening , night \" . So , this could be more So , it 's a lot , anyway . And , that 's a lot of probabilities to put here , which is kind of a pain . So {pause} Noisy - ORs are a way to , uh , {vocalsound} sort of deal with this . Um Where should I put this ? So , the idea is that , um , {vocalsound} Let 's call these , uh , C - one , C - two , C - three , and C - four , and E , for Cause and Effect , I guess . The idea is to have these intermediate nodes . Right . Well , actually , the idea , first of all , is that each of these things has a {disfmarker} quote - unquote distinguished state , which means that this is {vocalsound} the state in which we don't really know anything about it . So {disfmarker} right ? So , for example , if we don't really know {vocalsound} if the thing is a landmark or not , Or , i if that just doesn't seem relevant , then that would be th sort of the Disting - the Distinguish state . It 's a really , you know , {vocalsound} if there is something for the person talking about the admission fee , you know , if they didn't talk about it , that would be the Distinguish state ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "S so , this is a fanciful way of saying \" default \" ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So {disfmarker} Yeah , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "That 's just what they {disfmarker} the word they used in that paper ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So , the idea is that , um , {vocalsound} you have these intermediate nodes , right ? E - one , E - two , E - three and E - four ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , this is the Heckerman paper you 're working with ? Good ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . So {pause} The idea is that , each of these EI {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} represents what this would be {disfmarker} if all the other ones were in the distinguish state . Right ? So , for example , suppose that the person {disfmarker} I mean , suppose the thing that they talked about is a landmark . But none of the other {disfmarker} {vocalsound} sort of cues really apply . Then , {vocalsound} this would be {disfmarker} W The {vocalsound} this would just represent the probability distribution of this , assuming that this cue is turned on and the other ones just didn't apply ? So , you know , if it is a landmark , and no none of the other things really ap applicable , then {disfmarker} this would represent the probability distribution . So maybe in this case {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Maybe we just t k Maybe we decide that , if the thing 's a landmark and we don't know anything else , then we 're gonna conclude that , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} They want to view it with probability , you know , point four . They want to enter it with probability , uh {disfmarker} with probability point five and they want to approach it probability point one , say {disfmarker} Right ? So we come up with these l little tables for each of those OK . And the final thing is that , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} this is a deterministic function of these , so we don't need to specify any probabilities . We just have to , um , say what function this is , right ? So we can let this be , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} G of E - one comma E - two . E - three , E - four . Right ? and our example G would be , um , {vocalsound} a majority vote ? Right ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well . OK , so th so the important point {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} W not what the G function is . The important point is {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} There is a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a general kind of idea of shortcutting the full CPT . Th - c the full conditional probability table {disfmarker} with some function . OK ? Which y w you choose appropriately for each case . So , depending on {vocalsound} what your situation is , there are different functions which are most appropriate . And {disfmarker} So I gave {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker} Bhaskara a copy of this , eh {disfmarker} sort of \" ninety - two \" {comment} paper . D and you got one , Robert ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I don't know who else has seen it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "There 's {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} yeah . it 's Heckerman and Breese ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "It 's short . It 's short ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , I u w Um , yo uh {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} Have you read it yet ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Uh , you can {disfmarker} Yeah , you should take a look at it , I guess ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "OK" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK , so you should take a look . Nancy , I 'm sure you read it at some point in life ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I {disfmarker} yeah . I {disfmarker} I think so , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . And {disfmarker} so , you other guys can decide how interested {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah , @ @ ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Anyway . So the paper isn't th isn't real hard ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} One of the questions just come at Bhaskara is , \" How much of this does JavaBayes support ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , it 's a good question . Um {pause} {vocalsound} {nonvocalsound} The {disfmarker} so what we want , is basically JavaBayes to support deterministic , uh , functions ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "And , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} In a sense it sup we can make it supported by , um , {vocalsound} manually , uh , entering , you know , probabilities that are one and zeros , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . So the little handout that {disfmarker} The little thing that I sent {disfmarker} I sent a message saying , uh , here is a way to take {disfmarker} One thing you could do , which is kind of s in a way , stupid , is take this deterministic function , and use it to build the CPT . So , if Ba - JavaBayes won't do it for you ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "that you can convert all that into what the CPT would be . Um {disfmarker} and , what I sent out about a week ago , was an idea of how to do that , for , um , evidence combination . So one of {disfmarker} one function that you could use as your \" G function \" is an e e Evidence - Combining . So you just take {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} uh , if each of th if each of the ones has its own little table like that , {vocalsound} then you could take the , uh , strength of each of those , times its little table , and you 'd add up the total evidence for \" V \" , \" E \" , and \" A \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm . I don't think you can do this , because {disfmarker} {vocalsound} G is a function from {pause} that {vocalsound} to that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yep . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Right ? So there 's no numbers . There 's just {disfmarker} quadruplets of {disfmarker} well , N - duplets of , uh , E Vs ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I i i No , no {disfmarker} But I 'm saying is {disfmarker} There {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} There is a w I mean , if y if {disfmarker} if you decide what 's {disfmarker} what is appropriate , is probablistic evidence combination , you can write a function that does it . It 's a pui it 's actually one of the examples he 's got in there . But , anyway , s skipping {disfmarker} skipping the question of exactly which functions {disfmarker} now is it clear that you might like to be able to shortcut the whole conditional probability table ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean , in some {disfmarker} it seems very plausible in some sense , where we will be likely to not be {disfmarker} observe some of the stuff . Cuz we don't have the a access to the information ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oops , {comment} sorry ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . That 's one of the problems , is , W Is {disfmarker} is , Where would th Where would it all come from ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Is {disfmarker} Oh , right . W would not be ab able to observe" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "What ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I if it 's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a discar Discourse Initial Phrase , we will have nothing in the discourse history . So , if {disfmarker} if we ever want to wonder what was mention" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh {disfmarker} Oh . A are you saying that we 'll not be able to observe certain nodes ? That 's fine . That is sort of orthogonal thing ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , so there 's {disfmarker} there 's two separate things , Robert . The f the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the Bayes - nets in general are quite good at saying , \" if you have no current information about this variable just take the prior for that . \" OK ? Th - that 's what they 're real good at . So , if you don't have any information about the discourse , you just use your priors of {disfmarker} of whatever {disfmarker} eh the {disfmarker} discourse {disfmarker} uh , eh , basically whatever w it 's {disfmarker} Probabilistically , whatever it would be . And it 's {disfmarker} it 's sort of not a great estimate ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "but {disfmarker} it 's the best one you have , and , so forth . So that , they 're good at . But the other problem is , how do you fill in all these numbers ? And I think that 's the one he was getting at ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . So , specifically in this case you have to {disfmarker} f have this many numbers ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "whereas in this case you just have to have three for this , three for this , three for this . Right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So you have to have just three N ? So , this is much smaller than that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Asymptotically ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , pretty quickly ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "U yeah , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I mean {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "So , you don't need da data enough to cover {disfmarker} uh , nearly as much stuff ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I don't know ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "So , really , i What a {disfmarker} A Noisy - OR seems to kind of {pause} \" neural - net - acize \" these Bayes - nets ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Eh {disfmarker} well to some No , no . So , \" Noisy - OR \" is a funny way of referring to this , because {vocalsound} the Noisy - OR is only one instance ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . This isn't a Noisy - OR anymore ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "That one actually isn't a Noisy - OR . So we 'll have to think of {vocalsound} of a way t t" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "it 's a Noisy - arg - max or a Noisy - whatever ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , whatever . Yeah . So {disfmarker} Eh {disfmarker} {comment} Um" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , my point was more that we just {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker} With the neural net , right , eh , things come in , you have a function that combines them and {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} Tha - that 's true . It is a is also more neural - net - like , although {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh , it isn't necessarily sum {disfmarker} uh , s you know , sum of weights or anything like that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I mean i You could have , uh , like the Noisy - OR function , really is one that 's essentially says , uh , take the max ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Well , the \" OR \" ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Same ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Right . I guess you 're right . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh But anyway . So {disfmarker} And , I thi I think that 's the standard way people get around the {disfmarker} uh There are a couple other ones . There are ways of breaking this up into s to {disfmarker} to subnets and stuff like that . But , um The I think we definitely {disfmarker} I think it 's a great idea tha to {disfmarker} to pursue that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yep . So" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Wha - still sort of leaves one question . It {disfmarker} I mean you {disfmarker} you can always uh {disfmarker} see easily that {disfmarker} that I 'm not grasping everything correctly , but {vocalsound} what seemed attractive to me in im uh in the last discussion we had , was {vocalsound} that we find out a means of {disfmarker} of getting these point four , point five , point one , of C - four , not because , you know , A is a Landmark or not , but we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we label this whatever object type , and if it 's a garden , it 's point three , point four , point two . If it 's a castle , it 's point eight , point one , point one . If it 's , {vocalsound} uh , a town hall , it 's point two , point three , point five ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And so forth . And we don't want to write this down {disfmarker} necessarily every time for something but , uh {disfmarker} let 's see ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "It 'll be students {disfmarker} Where else would it be stored ? That 's the question ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , in the beginning , we 'll write up a flat file ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "We know we have twenty object types" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and we 'll write it down in a flat file ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "No . So , i is Well , let me say something , guys , cuz there 's not {disfmarker} There 's a pretty point about this we might as well get in right now . Which is {disfmarker} The hierarchy that s comes with the ontology is just what you want for this ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So that {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh , if you know about it {disfmarker} let 's say , a particular town hall {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that , it 's one that is a monument , {vocalsound} then , that would be stored there . If you don't , you look up the hierarchy , Eh {disfmarker} so , you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you may or {disfmarker} So , then you 'd have this little vector of , um , you know , Approach Mode or EVA Mode . Let 's {disfmarker} OK , so we have {vocalsound} the EVA vector for {disfmarker} for various kinds of landmarks . If you know it for a specific landmark you put it there . If you don't , you just go up the hierarchy to the first place you find one ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK . So , is the idea to put it in the ontology ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Absolutely ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh , or , link to {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but in any case {disfmarker} i View it logically as being in the ontology . It 's part of what you know about {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} an object , {vocalsound} is its EVA vector ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And , if yo As I say , if you know about a specific object , you put it there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "This is part of what Dekai was doing . So , when we get to Wu , The - e We 'll see w what he says about that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And , then if you {disfmarker} If it isn't there , it 's higher , and if you don't know anything except that it 's a b it 's {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker} building , then up at the highest thing , you have the pr what amounts to a prior . If you don't know anything else about a building , {vocalsound} uh , you just take whatever your crude approximation is up at that level ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "which might be equal , or whatever it is ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , that 's a very pretty relationship between these local vectors and the ontology . And it seems to me the obvious thing to do , unless {vocalsound} we find a reason to do something different ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Does this make sense to you ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Bhask - ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . So , we are {disfmarker} but we {disfmarker} we 're not doing the ontology , so we have to get to whoever is doing the {disfmarker} u ultimately ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Indeed . So , that 's another thing we 're gonna need to do , is {disfmarker} is , to , either {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "we have to get them to {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "We 're gonna need some way to either get a p tag in the ontology , or add fields , or {disfmarker} {comment} {comment} {vocalsound} some way to associate {disfmarker} Or , w It may be that all we can do is , um , some of our own hash tables that it {disfmarker} Th - the {disfmarker} th you know , there 's always a way to do that . It 's a just a question of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah , hash on object name to , you know , uh , the probabilities or whatever ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "i th Yeah . e Right . And , so , i uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But it 's , uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Well , it strikes me as a What For If we get the mechanism , that will be sort of the wonderful part . And then , {vocalsound} how to make it work is {disfmarker} is the second part , in the sense that {disfmarker} I mean , m the guy who was doing the ontology {disfmarker} eh , eh , s ap apologized that i it will take him another through {disfmarker} two to three days because they 're having really trouble getting the upper level straight , and right now . The reason is , {vocalsound} given the craw bet uh , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the projects that all carry their own taxonomy and , on all history , {vocalsound} they 're really trying to build one top level ontology ft that covers all the EML projects , and that 's , uh , uh , sort of a tough cookie , a little bit tougher than they {vocalsound} figured . I could have told them s so ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Right . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Uh . But , nevertheless , it 's going to be there by n by , uh , next Monday and I will show you what 's {disfmarker} what some examples {vocalsound} from that for towers , and stuff . And , um , what I don't think is ever going to be in the ontology , is sort of , you know , the likelihood of , eh , people entering r town halls , and looking at town halls , and approaching town halls , especially since we are b dealing with a case - based , not an instance - based ontology . So , there will be nothing on {disfmarker} on that town hall , or on the Berkeley town hall , or on the {vocalsound} Heidelberg town hall , it 'll just be information on town halls ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} How ar What are they gonna do with instances ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But what {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I mean , you {disfmarker} y" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , that 's {disfmarker} Hhh . That 's {disfmarker} that 's al different question . I mean , th the {disfmarker} first , they had to make a design question , {vocalsound} \" do we take ontologies that have instances ? or just one that does not , that just has the types ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , so , since the d decision was on types , on a d simply type - based , {vocalsound} we now have to hook it up to instances . I mean this is" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "But what i What is SmartKom gonna do about that ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "one {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Cuz , they have instances all the time ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , but the ontology is really not a SmartKom thing , in {disfmarker} in and of itself . That 's more something that {vocalsound} I kicked loose in {disfmarker} in EML . So it 's a completely EML thing ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "But {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} SmartKom 's gonna need an ontology ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yes , u a w a lot of people are aware of that ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I understand , {vocalsound} but is anybody doing anything about it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK . It 's a political problem . We won't worry about it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No , but {disfmarker} th the r eh {disfmarker} I th I still think that there is enough information in there . For example , whether {disfmarker} OK . So , th it will know about the twenty object types there are in the world . Let 's assume there are only twenty object types in this world . And it will know if any of those have institutional meanings . So , in a sense , \" I \" used as Institutions for some s in some sense or the other . Which makes them {disfmarker} enterable . Right ? In a sense ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . Anyway . So we may have to {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You know ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "This is with the whole thing ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "we may have to build another data stru" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Conceptually , we know what should be done . When we see what people have done , it may turn out that the easiest thing to do {vocalsound} is to build a {disfmarker} a separate thing that {disfmarker} that just pools i i Like , i i it {disfmarker} it may be , that , the {disfmarker} the instance {disfmarker} w That we have to build our own instance , uh , things , that , with their types ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} Right , we can just assume {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "and then it goes off to the ontology once you have its type . So we build a little data structure And so what we would do in that case , is , in our instance gadget have {vocalsound} our E V And if we d there isn't one we 'd get the type and then have the E V As for the type . So we 'd have our own little , {vocalsound} uh , EVA tree . And then , for other , uh , vectors that we need ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "So , we 'd have our own little {vocalsound} things so that whenever we needed one , we 'd just use the ontology to get the type ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "and then would hash or whatever we do to say , \" ah !" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "If it 's that type of thing , and we want its EVA vector , pppt - pppt ! {comment} it 's that . \" So , I I think we can handle that . And then {disfmarker} But , the combination functions , and whether we can put those in Java Bayes , and all that sort of stuff , is , uh {disfmarker} is the bigger deal ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I think that 's where we have to get technically clever ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "We could just steal the classes in JavaBayes and then interface to them with our own code ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , I me ye {nonvocalsound} eh , yeah , the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "That requires understanding the classes in JavaBayes , I guess . @ @ ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , I mean , it 's , uh , e e e e e cute . I mean , you 've been around enough to {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} Just ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , it depends on {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I mean , there 's this huge package which {disfmarker} which may or may not be consistent and {disfmarker} you know . But , yeah , we could look at it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , I was j OK . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah . It 's b It {disfmarker} It 's an inter sort of a kind of a {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} The thing is , it 's kind of an interpreter and i i it expects its data structures to be in a given form , and if you say , \" hey , we 're gonna {vocalsound} make a different kind of data structure to stick in there {disfmarker} \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , no , but that just means there 's a protocol , right ? That you could {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "It may or may not . I don't know . That 's the question is \" to what extent does it allow us to put in these G functions ? \" And I don't know ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , no , but {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} What I uh the {disfmarker} So you could have four different Bayes - nets that you 're running , and then run your own {disfmarker} write your own function that would take the output of those four , and make your own \" G function \" , is what I was saying ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , that 's fine if it 's {disfmarker} if it comes only at the end . But suppose you want it embedded ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Well , then you 'd have to break all of your Bayes - nets into smaller Bayes - nets , with all the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Oh , that {disfmarker} Yeah , that 's a truly horrible way to do d it . One would hope {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "Yeah , but I 'm just {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , you bet . But , at that point you may say , \" hey , Java Bayes isn't the only package in town . Let 's see if there 's another package that 's , eh , more civilized about this . \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Now , Srini is worth talking to on this ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "cuz he said that he actually did hack some combining functions into But he doesn't remember {disfmarker} at least when I talked to him , he didn't remember {vocalsound} whether it was an e an easy thing , a natural thing , or whether he had to do some violence to it to make it work ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Ah !" }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Uh . But he did do it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah . I don't see why the , uh , combining f functions have to be directly hacked into I mean , they 're used to create tables so we can just make our own little functions that create tables in XML ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , I say that 's one way to do it , is {disfmarker} is to just convert it int into a {disfmarker} into a C P T that you zip {disfmarker} It 's blown up , and is a {disfmarker} it 's , uh {disfmarker} it 's huge , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it doesn't require any data fitting or complication ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah . I don't think {disfmarker} I mean , the fact that it blown u blows up is a huge issue in the sense that {disfmarker} I mean , OK . So say it blows up , right ? So there 's , like , the you know , ten , f ten , fifteen , uh , things . It 's gonna be like , two to the {disfmarker} that , which isn't so bad ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I I understand . I 'm just saying tha that w That was wi that was my note . The little note I sent said that . It said , \" Here 's the way you 'd take the logical f G function and turn it into a CPT . \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I mean that {disfmarker} the Max - the Evidence - Combining function . So we could do that . And maybe that 's what we 'll do . But , um don't know . So , I will , e {vocalsound} e before next week , uh , @ @ {comment} p push {disfmarker} push some more on {disfmarker} on this stuff that Dekai Wu did , and try to understand it . Uh , you 'll make a couple of more copies of the Heckerman paper to give to people ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "p Sure ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "Yeah , I {disfmarker} I would like a copy ," }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "y y yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "And , um" }, { "speaker": "PhD F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "I think {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . And I I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll think s through this , uh , {vocalsound} eh {disfmarker} getting EVA vectors dynamically out of ontologies one more time because I s I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm not quite sure whether we all think of the same thing or not , here ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Well , you and I should talk about it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , uh - huh . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor B", "content": "Alright , great ! And , Robert , thank you for {vocalsound} coming in under {disfmarker} He {disfmarker} he 's been sick , Robert ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Und ." }, { "speaker": "Grad A", "content": "I was thinking maybe we should just cough into the microphone and see if they can't {disfmarker} th see if they can handle it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Sure ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um {disfmarker} is this , uh {disfmarker}" } ] }, { "topic_list": [ { "topic": "Introducing Fey and discussing participant recruitment", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "23", "160" ] ] }, { "topic": "Capturing intention of subjects", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "162", "261" ] ] }, { "topic": "Language generation model and representing actions", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "262", "396" ] ] }, { "topic": "Natural language understanding and fitting the action schema into the source path goal schema", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "405", "783" ] ] }, { "topic": "Designing new SPG schema based on a more flexible organization", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "787", "872" ] ] }, { "topic": "New meeting time and final words on schemas", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "876", "1049" ] ] } ], "general_query_list": [ { "query": "Summarize the meeting", "answer": "Meeting participants began by going over the logistics of recruiting participants, particularly through departmental mailing lists. They then moved onto discussing a new role, the instructor, who would help experimental participants figure out their intentions. This would eliminate a pre-written set of goals for the participants. Participants also discussed how the schema would incorporate other information, like choosing movies, and how more complex actions, like that of purchasing goods, could be incorporated into the source-path-goal schema. Finally, the participants concluded that an SPG schema of a different kind, one that can transfer previously acquired information, may be more helpful. The meeting concluded with the discussion of a new meeting time." } ], "specific_query_list": [ { "query": "Summarize the discussion about capturing the intention of subjects", "answer": "The new system for collecting subject intention focused on allowing subjects to come up with the intent themselves. Instead of giving them a list of goals, the subjects would, with the help of an instructor, figure out what they want to do in the environment. The earlier interaction with the instructor would give them a sense of how specific their goals in the environment could be. Another idea was to use pictures for people to help determine their intention, but the manufacturing of pictures seemed to be a very intensive project.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "162", "261" ] ] }, { "query": "What did Grad C think about capturing subject intention?", "answer": "Grad C introduced the topic and explained that the new idea was to allow subjects to generate high level tasks, like going shopping, by themselves. Subjects would also be provided a high level schematic which would give them basic features of the environment. Though, the schematic would not contain detailed information, like a street map, which would be reserved for interactions with the wizard. An instructor would be hired to help subjects navigate the high level tasks.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "162", "169" ], [ "213", "227" ] ] }, { "query": "What did Grad G think about capturing the subject intention?", "answer": "Grad G learned that the materials would be based on real materials about Heidelberg and that the instructor would allow subjects to get a feel for the system's capabilities. Grad G also learned that the interactions would be more natural.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "165", "220" ] ] }, { "query": "Summarize the discussion about designing the new SPG schema based on a more flexible organization", "answer": "The team wanted to figure out how roles would be connected to actions. The thought that their current XML schema forced the model to look up, requiring the whole body of the model. The new idea they came up with was to create a parallel intention oriented specification in addition to the pure schema, which would allow for a more flexible schema.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "787", "872" ] ] }, { "query": "What did Grad C think about the SPG schema?", "answer": "Grad C thought an approach in which the model had to refer to parents seemed inefficient. The model would constantly have to go back. Grad C wanted to completely redo it, even if it meant throwing away what the team had developed thus far.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "810", "833" ] ] } ], "meeting_transcripts": [ { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Time ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Thanks ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Are you Fey ?" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "I am Fey , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "What day is today ?" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Hi ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Hi . I think we 've met before , like , I remember talking to you about Aspect or something like that at some point or other ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "A couple times yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "It 's the uh twenty {disfmarker} nineteenth ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Nineteenth ?" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "That 's right , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "And you were my GSI briefly , until I dropped the class ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right , right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh that 's right ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "But ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Well ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK , wh wh" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "No offense ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Like ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . Some in some introductions are in order ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh , OK sorry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Getting ahead of myself ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So . Um . For those who don't know {disfmarker} Everyone knows me , this is great . Um , apart from that , sort of the old gang , Johno and Bhaskara have been with us from {disfmarker} from day one" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yay !" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Hi ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and um they 're engaged in {disfmarker} in various activities , some of which you will hear about today . Ami is um our counselor and spiritual guidance and um also interested in problems concerning reference of the more complex type ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Oh wow ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and um he sits in as a interested participant and helper . Is that a good characterization ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "u That 's pretty good , I think ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I don't know ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah . Thanks ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . Keith is not technically one of us yet ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Not yet ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "ha - ha . but um it 's too late for him now ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "\" One of us . \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah right . I 've got the headset on after all ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um . Officially I guess he will be joining us in the summer ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um hopefully it is by {disfmarker} by means of Keith that we will be able to get a b a better formal and a better semantic um idea of what a construction is and um how we can make it work for us . Additionally his interest um surpasses um English because it also entails German , an extra capability of speaking and writing and understanding and reading that language . And um , is there anyone who doesn't know Nancy ? Do you {disfmarker} do you know Nancy ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Me ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I know Nancy ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I made that joke already , Nancy , sadly ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "What ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "The \" I don't know myself \" joke ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "You did ? When ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Uh before you came in ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Man !" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "About me or you ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "About me ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK . {vocalsound} OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You could do it about you ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Well I didn't know . I didn't mean to be humor copying , but OK , sorry . Yes , I know myself . It 's OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "It 's a {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um Fey is with us as of six days ago officially ?" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Officially ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Officially ," }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "but in reality already um much much longer and um um next to some {disfmarker} some more or less bureaucratic uh stuff with the {disfmarker} the data collection she 's also the wizard in the data collection Um ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Of Oz ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "It 's very exciting ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "we 're sticking with the term \" wizard \" ," }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and um" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Not witch - like ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Wizardette ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Wizard ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Wizardess ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sorceress , I think ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Wizard ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "wizard uh by by popular vote" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Didn't take a vote ? OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK , um , why don't we get started on that subject anyways . Um , so we 're about to collect data and um the uh s the following things have happened since we last met . When will we three meet again ? And um" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "More than three of us ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "what happened is that um , \" A \" , {comment} there was some confusion between you and Jerry with the {disfmarker} that leading to your talking to Catherine Snow , and he was uh he {disfmarker} he agreed completely that some something confusing happened . Um his idea was to get sort of the l the lists of mayors of the department , the students . It {disfmarker} it 's exactly how you interpreted it , sort of s" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "The list of majors in the department ?" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "M m Majors ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Ma - majors , majors ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Majors ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "\" Mayors \" ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "OK , mayor {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Majors ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Something I don't know about these" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "The department has many mayors ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Majors and um just sending the {disfmarker} the little write - up that we did on to those email lists" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "OK . OK . Yeah , yeah , yeah . But {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "So it was really Carol Snow who was confused , not me and not Jerry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep , yep , yep . OK . So . So , that is uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "That 's good . So I should still do that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "And using the thing that you wrote up ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Wonderful . And um we have a little description of asking peop subjects to contact Fey for you know recruiting them for our thing and um there was some confusion as to the consent form , which is basically that {disfmarker} that what what you just signed" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and since we have one already um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Did Jerry talk to you about maybe using our class ? the students in the undergrad class that he 's teaching ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um well he said um we {disfmarker} definitely \" yes \" ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "e" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "however there is always more people in a {disfmarker} in a facul uh in a department than are just taking his class or anybody else 's class at the moment" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and one should sort of reach out and try and get them all ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , but th I guess it 's that um people in his class cover a different set so {disfmarker} than the c is the CogSci department that you were talking about ?" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "I guess . See" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "uh reaching out to ?" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "that 's what I suggested to him , that people like {disfmarker} like Jerry and George and et cetera just {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Cuz we have you know people from other areas" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "advertise in their classes as well ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Yeah or even I could {disfmarker} you know I could do the actual {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Cuz I mean I {disfmarker} I know how to contact our students ," }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "That 's generally the way it 's done ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "so if there 's something that you 're sending out you can also s um send me a copy ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "me or Bhaskara could {disfmarker} either of us could post it to uh is it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "A mailing list ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "if it 's a general solicitation that you know is just contact you then we can totally pro post it to the news group" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "so ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Do it . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "That 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , so you 'll send it or something so ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "As a matter of fact , if you {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "I can send it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "if {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "I 'll send it ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "You can send it to me ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Now , i" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK . Don't worry , we {disfmarker} this doesn't concern you anymore , Robert ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "How {disfmarker} however I suggest that if you {disfmarker} if you look at your email carefully you may think {disfmarker} you may find that you already have it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "It 's fine . Oops . Already ? Really ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Maybe ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Probab" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oops ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . W we 'll see ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I don't remember getting anything ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Anyhow , um the uh Yeah , not only Also we will talk about Linguistics and of course Computer Science ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um and then , secondly , we had , you may remember , um the problem with the re - phrasing , that subject always re - phrase sort of the task that uh we gave them ," }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and so we had a meeting on Friday talking about how to avoid that , and it proved finally fruitful in the sense that we came up with a new scenario for how to get the {disfmarker} the subject m to really have intentions and sort of to act upon those , and um there the idea is now that next actually we {disfmarker} we need to hire one more person to actually do that job because it {disfmarker} it 's getting more complicated . So if you know anyone interested in {disfmarker} in what i 'm about to describe , tell that person to {disfmarker} to write a mail to me or Jerry soon , fast . Um {vocalsound} the idea now is to sort of come up with a high level of sort of abstract tasks \" go shopping \" um \" take in uh a batch of art \" um \" visit {disfmarker} do some sightseeing \" blah - blah - blah - blah - blah , sort of analogous to what Fey has started in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in compiling {disfmarker} compiling here and already {disfmarker} she has already gone to the trouble of {disfmarker} of anchoring it with specific um o {comment} um entities and real world places you will find in Heidelberg . And um . So out of these f s these high level categories the subject can pick a couple , such as if {disfmarker} if there is a cop uh a category in emptying your roll of film , the person can then decide \" OK , I wanna do that at this place \" , sort of make up their own itinerary a and {disfmarker} and tasks and the person is not allowed to take sort of this h high level category list with them , but uh the person is able to take notes on a map that we will give him and the map will be a tourist 's sort of schematic representation with {disfmarker} with symbols for the objects . And so , the person can maybe make a mental note that \" ah yeah I wanted to go shopping here \" and \" I wanted to maybe take a picture of that \" and \" maybe um eat here \" and then goes in and solves the task with the system , IE {comment} Fey , and um and we 're gonna try out that {disfmarker} Any questions ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "so um y you 'll have those say somewhere what their intention was {disfmarker} so you still have the {disfmarker} the nice thing about having data where you know what the actual intention was ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "But they will um {disfmarker} There 's nothing that says you know \" these are the things you want to do \" so they 'll say \" well these are the things I want to do \" and {disfmarker} Right , so they 'll have a little bit more natural interaction ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hopefully ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "So they 'll be given this map , which means that they won't have to like ask the system for in for like high level information about where things are ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah it 's a schematic tourist map . So it 'll be uh i it 'll still require the {disfmarker} that information and An" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "It w it doesn't have like streets on it that would allow them to figure out their way {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "N not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not really the street network . Nuh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "So you 're just saying like what part of town the things are in or whatever ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah a and um the map is more a means for them to have the buildings and their names and maybe some ma ma major streets and their names" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and we want to maybe ask them , if you have {disfmarker} get it sort of isolated street the {disfmarker} the , whatever , \" River Street \" , and they know that {disfmarker} they have decided that , yes , that 's where they want to do this kind of action um that they have it with them and they can actually read them or sort of have the label for the object because it 's too hard to memorize all these st strange German names . And then we 're going to have another {disfmarker} we 're gonna have w another trial run IE the first with that new setup tomorrow at two and we have a real interesting subject which is Ron Kay for who {disfmarker} those who know him , he 's the founder of ICI . So he 'll {disfmarker} he 's around seven seventy years old , or something ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I didn't know he was the founder . That 's {disfmarker} OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And he also approached me and he offered to help {vocalsound} um our project and he was more thinking about some high level thinking tasks and {vocalsound} I said \" sure we need help you can come in as a subject \" and he said \" OK \" . So that 's what 's gonna happen , tomorrow , data ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Using this new {disfmarker} new um plan ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "New {disfmarker} new set up ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Which I 'll hopefully sort of scrape together t But , thanks to Fey , we already have sort of a nice blueprint and I can work with that . Questions ? Comments on that ? If not , we can move on . No ? No more questions ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I 'm not sure I totally understand this" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So what 's the s this is what you made , Fey ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "but {disfmarker} I 'm not sure I totally understand everything that 's being talked about" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Like so {disfmarker} So it 's just based on like the materials you had about Heidelberg ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um are you familiar with {disfmarker} with the {disfmarker} with the very rough setup of the data ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "but I {disfmarker} I imagine I 'll c just catch on ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Based on the web site , yeah , at the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh OK there 's a web site" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "experiment ?" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and then you could like um figure out what the cate" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "It 's a tourist information web site ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Uh , this is where they 're supposed to {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "so ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Talk to a machine and it breaks down and then the human comes on ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The question is just sort of how do we get the tasks in their head that they have an intention of doing something and have a need to ask the system for something without giving them sort of a clear wording or phrasing of the task ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK . OK . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Because what will happen then is that people repeat {disfmarker} repeat , {comment} or as much as they can , of that phrasing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Hmm . Um , are you worried about being able to identify {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Um . The {disfmarker} The goals that we 've d you guys have been talking about are this {disfmarker} these you know identifying which of three modes um their question uh concerns ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So it 's like the Enter versus View {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we will sort of get a protocol of the prior interaction ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh - huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "right ? That 's where the instructor , the person we are going to hire , um and the subjects sit down together with these high level things" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh - huh . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and so th the q first question for the subject is , \" so these are things , you know , we thought a tourist can do . Is there anything that interests you ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And the person can say \" yeah , sure sh this is something I would do . I would go shopping \" . Yeah ? and then we can sort of {disfmarker} this s instructor can say \" well , uh then you {disfmarker} you may want to find out how to get over here" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "because this is where the shopping district is \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So the interaction beforehand will give them hints about how specific or how whatever though the kinds of questions that are going to ask during the actual session ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No . Just sort of {disfmarker} OK , what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what would you like to buy and then um OK there you wanna buy a whatever cuckoos clocks" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK and the there is a store there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So the task then for that person is t finding out how to get there , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "That 's sort of what 's left ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And we know that the intention is to enter because we know that the person wants to buy a cuckoos clock ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , that 's what I mean so like those tasks are all gonna be um unambiguous about which of the three modes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hopefully ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right . OK . So ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well , so the idea is to try to get the actual phrasing that they might use and try to interfere as little as possible with their choice of words ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hopefully ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "t {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} That they 'll be here ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yes . In a sense that 's exactly the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the idea ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "uh uh" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "which is never possible in a {disfmarker} in a s in a lab situation ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well , u u the one experiment th that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that I 've read somewhere , it was {disfmarker} they u used pictures ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "nuh ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So to {disfmarker} to uh actually um uh specify the {disfmarker} the tasks ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Uh , but you know i i" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . We had exactly that on our list of possible way things so we {disfmarker} uh I even made a sort of a silly thing how that could work , how you control you are here you {disfmarker} you want to know how to get someplace , and this is the place and it 's a museum and you want to do some and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and there 's a person looking at pictures . So , you know , this is exactly getting someplace with the intention of entering and looking at pictures ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "However , not only was {disfmarker} the common census were {disfmarker} among all participants of Friday 's meeting was it 's gonna be very laborious to {disfmarker} to make these drawings for each different things ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "all the different actions , if at all possible , and also people will get caught up in the pictures . So all of a sudden we 'll get descriptions of pictures in there ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And people talking about pictures and pictorial representations" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and {disfmarker} um" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I would s I would still be willing to try it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I mean , I I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not saying it 's necessary but {disfmarker} but uh i uh uh i {vocalsound} you might be able to combine you know text uh and {disfmarker} and some sort of picture and also uh I think it {disfmarker} it will be a good idea to show them the text and kind of chew the task and then take the test away {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the text away" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "so that they are not uh guided by {disfmarker} by by what you wrote ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "We will {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "but can come up with their {disfmarker} with their own {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , they will have no more linguistic matter in front of them when they enter this room ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . Then I suggest we move on to the {disfmarker} to we have um uh the EDU Project , let me make one more general remark , has sort of two {disfmarker} two side uh um actions , its um action items that we 're do dealing with , one is modifying the SmartKom parser and the other one is modifying the SmartKom natural language generation module . And um this is not too complicated but I 'm just mentioning it {disfmarker} put it in the framework because this is something we will talk about now . Um , I have some news from the generation , do you have news from the parser ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Um , not {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "By that look I {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Yes , uh , I would really p It would be better if I talked about it on Friday ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "If that 's OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , wonderful . Um , did you run into problems or did you run into not h having time ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Yeah . But not {disfmarker} not any time part ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK , so that 's good . That 's better than running into problems ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um I {disfmarker} I do have some good news for the natural language generation however . And the good news is I guess it 's done . Uh , meaning that Tilman Becker , who does the German one , actually took out some time and already did it in English for us . And so the version he 's sending us is already producing the English that 's needed to get by in version one point one ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "So I take it that was similar to the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what we did for the parsing ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} even though the generator is a little bit more complex and it would have been , not changing one hundred words but maybe four hundred words ," }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "but it would have been" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "but this {disfmarker} this is I guess good news , and the uh {disfmarker} the time and especially Bhaskara and uh {disfmarker} and um {disfmarker} Oh do I have it here ? No . The time is now pretty much fixed . It 's the last week of April until the fourth of May so it 's twenty - sixth through fourth . That they 'll be here . So it 's {disfmarker} it 's extremely important that the two of you are also present in this town during that time ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Wait , what {disfmarker} what are the days ? April twenty - sixth to the {disfmarker} May fourth ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , something like that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I 'll probably be here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "You will be here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "There is a d Isn't finals coming up then pretty much after that ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Finals was that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah w it doesn't really have much meaning to grad students but final projects might ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Yeah actually , that 's true ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "That {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Anyway , so this is {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Well I 'll be here working on something . Guaranteed , it 's just uh will I be here , you know , in uh {disfmarker} I 'll be here too actually but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No it 's just um you know they 're coming for us so that we can bug them" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Ye" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and ask them more questions and sit down together and write sensible code and they can give some nice talks and stuff . But uh" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "But it 's not like we need to be with them twenty - four hours a day s for the seven days that they 're here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "just make a {disfmarker} Not {disfmarker} not unless you really really want to ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "They 're very dependent" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Not unless you really want to . And they 're both nice guys so you may {disfmarker} may want to . OK , that much from the parser and generator side , unless there are more questions on that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So , no sample generator output yet ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No . It {disfmarker} Just a mail that , you know , he 's sending me the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the stuff soon" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK . This is being sent , mm - hmm . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and I was completely flabbergasted here" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and I {disfmarker} and that 's also it 's {disfmarker} it 's going to produce the concept - to - speech uh blah - blah - blah information for {disfmarker} necessary for one point one in English {disfmarker} based on the English , you know , in English . So . I was like \" OK ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "We 're done ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "we 're done ! \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So that was like one of the first l You know , the first task was getting it working for English . So that 's basically over now . Is that right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So the basic requirement fulfilled ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , the basic requirement is fulfilled almost . When Andreas Stolcke and {disfmarker} and his gang ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "when they have um changed the language model of the recognizer and the dictionary , then we can actually a put it all together" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm . So the speech recognizer also works . Uh - huh . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and you can speak into it and ask for TV and movie information" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Toll ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and then when if {disfmarker} if something actually happens and some answers come out , then we 're done ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm . If {disfmarker} and they 're kind of correct ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "So it 's not done basically ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "And they kind of are {disfmarker} are correct ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Right . Perhaps if the answers have something to do with the questions for example ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "It 's not just like anything . And they 're mostly in English . So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Then um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Are they {disfmarker} is it using the database ? the German TV movie ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK . So {vocalsound} all the actual data might be German names ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um well actually th um" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Or are they all like American TV programs ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um well {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I want to see \" Die Dukes Von Hazard \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The {disfmarker} OK , so you don't know how the German dialogue {disfmarker} uh the German {disfmarker} the demo dialogue actually works . It works {disfmarker} the first thing is what 's , you know , showing on TV , and then the person is presented with what 's running on TV in Germany on that day , on that evening" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm , mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and so you take one look at it and then you say \" well that 's really nothing {disfmarker} there 's nothing for me there \" \" what 's running in the cinemas ? \" So maybe there 's something better happening there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And then you get {disfmarker} you 're shown what movies play which films , and it 's gonna be of course all the Heidelberg movies and what films they are actually showing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And most of them are going to be Hollywood movies . So , \" American Beauty \" is \" American Beauty \" ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "right ? Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "But they 're shown like on a screen ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "N" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "It 's a {disfmarker} I mean so would the generator , like the English language sentence of it is {disfmarker} \" these are the follow you know the following films are being shown \" or something like that ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , but it in that sense it doesn't make {disfmarker} In that case uh it doesn't really make sense to read them out loud ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "S Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "if you 're displaying them ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So it 'll just display {disfmarker} OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But uh it 'll tell you that this is what 's showing in Heidelberg and there you go ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So we don't have to worry about um {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And the presentation agent will go \" Hhh ! \" {comment} Nuh ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Like that {disfmarker} the avatar ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um . And then you pick {disfmarker} pick a movie and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and it show shows you the times and you pick a time and you pick seats and all of this . So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Pretty straightforward ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But it 's {disfmarker} so this time we {disfmarker} we are at an advantage because it was a problem for the German system to incorporate all these English movie titles ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Nuh ? But in English , that 's not really a problem ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "unless we get some {disfmarker} some topical German movies that have just come out and that are in their database . So the person may select \" Huehner Rennen \" or whatever ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "\" Chicken Run \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . Then uh on to the modeling . Right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah , yeah , I guess ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um then modeling , there it is ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK . What 's the next thing ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "e" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "This is very rough but this is sort of what um Johno and I managed to come up with . The idea here is that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "This is the uh s the schema of the XML here , not an example or something like that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah this is not an XML this is sort of towards an {disfmarker} a schema ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "nuh ? definition . The idea is , so , imagine we have a library of schema such as the Source - Path - Goal and then we have forced uh motion , we have cost action ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "we have a whole library of schemas ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And they 're gonna be , you know , fleshed out in {disfmarker} in their real ugly detail , Source - Path - Goal , and there 's gonna be s a lot of stuff on the Goal and blah - blah - blah , that a goal can be and so forth . What we think is {disfmarker} And all the names could {disfmarker} should be taken \" cum grano salis \" . So . This is a {disfmarker} the fact that we 're calling this \" action schema \" right now should not entail that we are going to continue calling this \" action schema \" . But what that means {vocalsound} is we have here first of all on the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the first iteration a stupid list of Source - Path - Goal actions" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Actions that can be categorized with {disfmarker} or that are related to Source - Path - Goal ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "wi to that schema" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and we will have you know forced motion and cost action actions ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And then those actions can be in multiple categories at the same time if necessary ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So a push may be in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in both you know push uh in this or this uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Forced motion and caused action for instance ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Exactly . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Also , these things may or may not get their own structure in the future . So this is something that , you know , may also be a res As a result of your work in the future , we may find out that , you know , there 're really s these subtle differences between um even within the domain of entering in the light of a Source - Path - Goal schema , that we need to put in {disfmarker} fill in additional structure up there . But it gives us a nice handle . So with this we can basically um you know s slaughter the cow any anyway we want . Uh . It {disfmarker} it is {disfmarker} It was sort of a {disfmarker} it gave us some headache , how do we avoid writing down that we have sort of the Enter Source - Path - Goal that this {disfmarker} But this sort of gets the job done in that respect and maybe it is even conceptually somewhat adequate in a sense that um we 're talking about two different things . We 're talking more on the sort of intention level , up there , and more on the {disfmarker} this is the {disfmarker} your basic bone um schema , down there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Uh one question , Robert . When you point at the screen is it your shadow that I 'm supposed to look at ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . It 's the shadow ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK . Whereas I keep looking where your hand is , and it doesn't {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , that wouldn't have helped you at all ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Basically , what this is {disfmarker} is that there 's an interface between what we are doing and the action planner" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Spit right here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and right now the way the interface is \" action go \" and then they have the {disfmarker} what the person claimed was the source and the person claimed as the goal passed on ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And the problem is , is that the current system does not distinguish between goes of type \" going into \" , goes of type \" want to go to a place where I can take a picture of \" , et cetera ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So this is sort of what it looks like now , some simple \" Go \" action from it {disfmarker} from an object named \" Peter 's Kirche \" of the type \" Church \" to an object named \" Powder - Tower \" of the type \" Tower \" . Right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "This is the uh {disfmarker} what the action planner uses ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right . Currently ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "This is {disfmarker} OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Currently ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "And is that {disfmarker} and tha that 's changeable ? or not ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , well {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Like are we adapting to it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Or {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "We {disfmarker} This is the output , sort of , of the natural language understanding ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh - huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "the input into the action planning , as it is now ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And what we are going to do , we going to {disfmarker} and you can see here , and again for Johno please {disfmarker} please focus the shadow ," }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um we 're gon uh uh here you have the action and the domain object and w and on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "What did you think he was doing ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I just {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , sorry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "A laser pointer would be most appropriate here I think ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah I {disfmarker} I um have {disfmarker} I have no {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Eee ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Robert likes to be abstract and that 's what I just thought he was doing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "You look up here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Sort of between here and here ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "so as you can see this is on one level and we are going to add another um \" Struct \" , if you want , IE a rich action description on that level ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So in the future {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So it 's just an additional information {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Exactly . In the future though , the content of a hypothesis will not only be an object and an {disfmarker} an action and a domain object but an action , a domain object , and a rich action description ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ? that doesn't hurt the current way . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Which {disfmarker} which we 're abbreviating as \" RAD \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "which is {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Good ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Rad !" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "So um you had like an action schema and a Source - Path - Goal schema ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Hmm . Hmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "right ? So how does this Source - Path - Goal schema fit into the uh action schema ? Like is it one of the tags there ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah can you go back to that one ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "So the Source - Path - Goal schema in this case , I 've {disfmarker} if I understand how we described {disfmarker} we set this up , um cuz we 've been arguing about it all week , but uh we 'll hold the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} Well in this case it will hold the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean the {disfmarker} the features I guess . I 'm not {disfmarker} it 's hard for me to exactly s So basically that will store the {disfmarker} the object that is w the Source will store the object that we 're going from , the Goal will store the {disfmarker} the f" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So the fillers of the role source ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "we 'll fill those in fill those roles in , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "The S Action - schemas basically have extra {disfmarker} See we {disfmarker} so those are {disfmarker} schemas exist because in case we need extra information instead of just making it an attribute and which {disfmarker} which is just one thing we {disfmarker} we decided to make it 's own entity so that we could explode it out later on in case there is some structure that {disfmarker} that we need to exploit ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , so th sorry I just don't kn um um um {disfmarker} This is just uh XML mo notational but um the fact that it 's action schema and then sort of slash action schema that 's a whole entit" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "That 's a block , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "That 's a block , whereas source is just an attribute ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No , no , no ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Is that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Source is just not spelled out here . Source meaning {disfmarker} Source will be uh will have a name , a type , maybe a dimensionality ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh , OK , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "maybe canonical uh orientation {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh - huh , uh - huh . OK could it {disfmarker} it could also be blocked out then as {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah , the {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "s Source it will be , you know we 'll f we know a lot about sources so we 'll put all of that in Source ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But it 's independent whether we are using the SPG schema in an Enter , View , or Approach mode , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "This is just properties of the SPG {comment} schema . We can talk about Paths being the fastest , the quickest , the nicest and so forth , uh or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} and the Trajector should be coming in there as well ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And then G the same about Goals ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK . So I guess the question is when you actually fill one of these out , it 'll be under action schema ? Those are {disfmarker} It 's gonna be one {disfmarker} y you 'll pick one of those for {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK these are {disfmarker} this is just a layout of the possible that could go {disfmarker} play that role ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right , so the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the roles will be filled in with the schema" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , go it . Uh - huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and then what actual a action is chosen is {disfmarker} will be in the {disfmarker} in the action schema section ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK . OK . S S OK , so one question . This was {disfmarker} in this case it 's all um clear , sort of obvious , but you can think of the Enter , View and Approach as each having their roles , right ? the {disfmarker} I mean it 's {disfmarker} it 's implicit that the person that 's moving is doing entering viewing and approaching , but you know the usual thing is we have bindings between sort of {disfmarker} they 're sort of like action specific roles and the more general Source - Path - Goal specific roles . So are we worrying about that or not for now ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yes , yes . Since you bring it up now , we will worry about it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Tell us more about it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "What do you {disfmarker} what do you {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "What 's that ? Oh I guess it {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I may be just um reading this and interpreting it into my head in the way that I 've always viewed things" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and {vocalsound} that {disfmarker} that may or may not be what you guys intended . But if it is , then the top block is sort of like um , you know , you have to list exactly what X - schema or in this action schema , there 'll be a certain one , that has its own s structure and maybe it has stuff about that specific to entering or viewing or approaching , but those could include roles like the thing that you 're viewing , the thing that you 're entering , the thing that you 're" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "So very specific role names are \" viewed thing \" , \" entered thing \" {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "whatever , you know , that {disfmarker} which are {disfmarker} think {disfmarker} think of enter , view and approach as frames" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and they have frame - specific parameters and {disfmarker} and roles" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and you can also describe them in a general way as Source - Path - Goal schema and maybe there 's other image schemas that you could you know add after this that you know , how do they work in terms of you know a force dynamics" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm , Mm - hmm , Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "or how do they work in f terms of other things . So all of those have um basically f either specific {disfmarker} frame specific roles or more general frame specific roles that might have binding . So the question is are um {disfmarker} how to represent when things are linked in a certain way . So we know for Enter that there 's Container potentially involved" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and it 's not {disfmarker} uh I don't know if you wanna have in the same level as the action schema SPG schema it {disfmarker} it 's somewhere in there that you need to represent that there is some container and the interior of it corresponds to some part of the Source - Path - Goal um you know goal {disfmarker} uh goal I guess in this case ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So uh is there an easy way in this notation to show when there 's identity basically between things" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and I di don't know if that 's something we need to invent or you know just {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "The {disfmarker} wa wasn't there supposed to be a link in the" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I don't know if this answers your question , I was just staring at this while you were talking , sorry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "It 's OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Uh a link between the action schema , a field in the s in the schema for the image schemas that would link us to which action schema we were supposed to use so we could {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Um , well that 's {disfmarker} that 's one {disfmarker} one thing is that we can link up , think also that um we can have one or m as many as we want links from {disfmarker} from the schema up to the s action um description of it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But the notion I got from Nancy 's idea was that we may f find sort of concepts floating around i in the a action description of the action f \" Enter \" frame up there that are , e when you talk about the real world , actually identical to the goal of the {disfmarker} the S Source - Path - Goal schema ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Exactly . Right , right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and do we have means of {disfmarker} of telling it within that a and the answer is absolutely ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The way {disfmarker} we absolutely have those means that are even part of the M - three - L A API ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . Oh great . s Uh - huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "meaning we can reference . So meaning {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Great . That 's exactly what is necessary ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah . St" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um . This referencing thing however is of temporary nature because sooner or later the W - three - C will be finished with their X - path , uh , um , specification and then it 's going to be even much nicer . Then we have real means of pointing at an individual instantiation of one of our elements here" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and link it to another one , and this not only within a document but also via documents ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and {disfmarker} and all in a v very easy e homogenous framework ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So you know {disfmarker} happen to know how {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what \" sooner or later \" means like in practice ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "That 's but it 's soon ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Or estimated . OK , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So it 's g it 's {disfmarker} the spec is there and it 's gonna part of the M - three - L AP {disfmarker} API filed by the end of this year so that this means we can start using it basically now . But this is a technical detail ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm . So a pointer {disfmarker} a way to really say pointers ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Basically references from the roles in the schema {disfmarker} the bottom schemas to the action schemas is wha uh I 'm assuming ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . OK , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Yeah , I mean personally , I 'm looking even more forward to the day when we 're going to have X forms , which l is a form of notation where it allows you to say that if the SPG action up there is Enter , then the goal type can never be a statue ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK . Uh - huh . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So you have constraints that are dependent on the c actual s specific filler , uh , of some attribute ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm , yeah . W Yeah e exactly . Um , you know this , of course , does not make sense in light of the Statue of Liberty ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh - huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "however {vocalsound} it is uh you know sort of {disfmarker} these sort of things are imaginable ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Tsk . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "S So um , like are you gonna have similar schemas for FM" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Or the Gateway Arch in St ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Louis . So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "like forced motion and caused action and stuff like you have for SPG ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "And if so like can {disfmarker} are you able to enforce that you know if {disfmarker} if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's SPG action then you have that schema , if it 's a forced motion then you have the other schema present in the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um we have absolute {disfmarker} No . We have absolutely no means of enforcing that , so it would be considered valid if we have an SPG action \" Enter \" and no SPG schema , but a forced action schema . Could happen ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Whi - which is not bad , because I mean , that there 's multiple sens I mean that particular case , there 's mult there {disfmarker} there 's a forced side of {disfmarker} of that verb as well ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm . It {disfmarker} maybe it means we had nothing to say about the Source - Path - Goal ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "What 's also nice , and for a i for me in my mind it 's {disfmarker} it 's crucially necessary , is that we can have multiple schemas and multiple action schemas in parallel ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um we started thinking about going through our bakery questions , so when I say \" is there a bakery here ? \" you know I do ultimately want our module to be able to first of all f tell the rest of the system \" hey this person actually wants to go there \" and \" B \" , {comment} that person actually wants to buy something to eat there . Nuh ? And if these are two different schemas , IE the Source - Path - Goal schema of getting there and then the buying snacks schema , nuh ? {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Would they both be listed here in {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK . Under so o under action schema there 's a list that can include both {disfmarker} both things ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "ye Yeah , they they would {disfmarker} both schemas would appear , so what is the uh is {disfmarker} is there a \" buying s snacks \" schema ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Snack action ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "That 's interesting ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "What is the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} have" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "What ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "the buying snack schema ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "See ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Buying {disfmarker} {vocalsound} buying his food {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I 'm sure there 's a commercial event schema in there somewhere ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oop . I {vocalsound} d f" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , a \" commercial event \" or something ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ? So uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} so we would {disfmarker} we would instantiate the SPG schema with a Source - Path - Goal blah - blah - blah" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I see ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and the buying event you know at which {disfmarker} however that looks like , the place f thing to buy ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh - huh . Uh - huh . Interesting . Would you say that the {disfmarker} like {disfmarker} I mean you could have a flat structure and just say these are two independent things , but there 's also this sort of like causal , well , so one is really facilitating the other and it 's part of a compound action of some kind , which has structure ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Now it 's technically possible that you can fit schema within schema , and schema within schemata {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "uh I {disfmarker} I think that 's nicer for a lot of reasons but might be a pain so uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um Well , for me it seems that uh {disfmarker} r Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I mean there are truly times when you have two totally independent goals that they might express at once , but in this case it 's really like there 's a purpo means that you know f for achieving some other purpose ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , if I 'm {disfmarker} if I 'm recipient of such a message and I get a Source - Path - Goal where the goal is a bakery and then I get a commercial action which takes place in a bakery , right ? and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and they {disfmarker} they are obviously , via identifiers , identified to be the same thing here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh - huh . Yeah . See that {disfmarker} that bothers me that they 're the same thing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No , no , just the {disfmarker} Yeah ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah because they 're two different things one of which is l you could think of one a sub you know pru whatever pre - condition for the second ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , yeah !" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right . Yeah , yeah . So . So . OK . So there 's like levels of granularity . So uh there 's {disfmarker} there 's um a single event of which they are both a part . And they 're {disfmarker} independently they {disfmarker} they are events which have very different characters as far as Source - Path - Goal whatever ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So when you identify Source - Path - Goal and whatever , there 's gonna to be a desire , whatever , eating , hunger , whatever other frames you have involved , they have to match up in {disfmarker} in nice ways . So it seems like each of them has its own internal structure and mapping to these schemas" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "you know from the other {disfmarker} But you know that 's just {disfmarker} That 's just me ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well , I think we 're gonna hit a lot of interesting problems" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Like {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and as I prefaced it this is the result of one week of arguing {vocalsound} about it" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm . Between you guys" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "uh" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and um {disfmarker} and so {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah I mean I {disfmarker} I still am not entirely sure that I really fully grasp the syntax of this ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Well it 's not {disfmarker} it 's not actually a very {disfmarker} actually , it doesn't actually {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um it occur {disfmarker} it occurs to me that I mean ne" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "You know , like what {disfmarker} Right . Or the intended interpretation of this ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um well I should have {disfmarker} we should have added an ano an XML example ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "or some XML examples" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "yeah that would be {disfmarker} that would be nice ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and {disfmarker} and this is on {disfmarker} on a {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on my list of things until next {disfmarker} next week ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's also a question of the recursiveness and {disfmarker} and a hier hierarchy um in there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Do we want the schemas just blump blump blump blump ? I mean it 's {disfmarker} if we can actually you know get it so that we can , out of one utterance , activate more than one schema , I mean , then we 're already pretty good ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well {disfmarker} well you have to be careful with that uh uh thing because uh {vocalsound} I mean many actions presuppose some {disfmarker} um almost {vocalsound} infinitely many other actions . So if you go to a bakery {pause} you have a general intention of uh not being hungry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . Mayb - yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You have a specific intentions to cross the traffic light to get there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You have a further specific intentions to left {disfmarker} to lift your right foot" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and so uh uh I mean y you really have to focus on on {disfmarker} on" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and decide the level of {disfmarker} of abstraction that {disfmarker} that you aim at it kind of zero in on that ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and more or less ignore the rest , unless there is some implications that {disfmarker} that you want to constant draw from {disfmarker} from sub - tasks um that are relevant uh I mean but very difficult ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "M Th The other thing that I just thought of is that you could want to go to the bakery because you 're supposed to meet your friend there or som" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "you know so you {disfmarker} like being able to infer the second thing is very useful and probably often right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Well the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the utterance was \" is there a bakery around here ? \" ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "But having them separate {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "not \" I want to go to a bakery . \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Well maybe their friend said they were going to meet them in a bakery around the area ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "And I 'm , yeah {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm inventing contexts which are maybe unlikely ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Sure it {disfmarker} OK . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "but yeah I mean like {disfmarker} but it 's still the case that um you could {disfmarker} you could override that default by giving extra information" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "which is to me a reason why you would keep the inference of that separate from the knowledge of \" OK they really want to know if there 's a bakery around here \" ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "which is direct ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there should never be a hard coded uh {vocalsound} shortcut from {pause} the bakery question to the uh double schema thing ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "how uh {disfmarker} And , as a matter of fact , when I have traveled with my friends we make these {disfmarker} exactly these kinds of appointments ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "We o o" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . Exactly . It 's {disfmarker} I met someone at the bakery you know in the Victoria Station t you know {vocalsound} train station London before ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well . I have a question about the slot of the SPG action ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "yeah . It 's like {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So {vocalsound} the Enter - View - Approach the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the EVA um , those are fixed slots in this particular action . Every action of this kind will have a choice . Or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or will it just um uh {disfmarker} is it change {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Every SPG {disfmarker} every SPG action either is an Enter or a View or an Approach ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right , right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I mean for {disfmarker} for each particular action that you may want to characterize you would have some number of slots that define uh uh uh you know in some way what this action is all about ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "It can be either A , B or C . Um . So is it a fixed number or {disfmarker} or do you leave it open {disfmarker} it could be between one and fifteen uh {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's flexible ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um , the uh {disfmarker} Well , it sort of depends on {disfmarker} on if you actually write down the {disfmarker} the schema then you have to say it 's either one of them or it can be none , or it can be any of them . However the uh {disfmarker} it seems to be sensible to me to r to view them as mutually exclusive um maybe even not ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "J Do you mean within the Source - Path - Goal actions ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "uh {vocalsound} ye uh uh b I uh I {disfmarker} u I understand" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Those three ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "uh but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um how {disfmarker} how where is the end ? So that 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No , no . There {disfmarker} a a actually by I think my question is simpler than that , um {vocalsound} is {disfmarker} OK , so you have an SPG action and {disfmarker} and it has three different um uh aspects um because you can either enter a building or view it or {disfmarker} or approach it and touch it or something . Um now you define uh another action , it 's {disfmarker} it 's called um uh s S P G - one" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Forced action or forced motion . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "action a different action . Um and this {disfmarker} uh action - two would have various variable possibilities of interpreting what you would like to do . And {disfmarker} i in {disfmarker} in a way similar to either Enter - View - Approach you may want to send a letter , read a letter , or dictate a letter , let 's say . So , h" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Oh the {disfmarker} OK uh maybe I 'd {disfmarker} The uh {disfmarker} These actions {disfmarker} I don't know if I 'm gonna answer your question or not with this , but the categories inside of action schemas , so , SPG action is a category . Real although I think what we 're specifying here is this is a category where the actions \" enter , view and approach \" would fall into because they have a related Source - Path - Goal schema in our tourist domain . Cuz viewing in a tourist domain is going up to it and {disfmarker} or actually going from one place to another to take a picture , in this {disfmarker} in a {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right . Oh , s so it 's sort of automatic derived fr from the structure that {disfmarker} that is built elsewhere ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "derived I don't know if I u" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "This is a cate this a category structure here ," }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "right ? Action schema . What are some types of action schemas ? Well one of the types of action schemas is Source - Path - Goal action . And what are some types of that ? And an Enter , a View , an Approach ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Those are all Source - Path - Goal actions ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Inside of Enter there will be roles that can be filled basically . So if I want to go from outside to inside {vocalsound} then you 'd have the roles that need to filled , where you 'd have a Source - Path - Goal set of roles . So you 'd the Source would be outside and Path is to the door or whatever , right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "So if you wanted to have a new type of action you 'd create a new type of category . Then this category would {disfmarker} we would put it {disfmarker} or not necessarily {disfmarker} We would put a new action in the m uh in the categories that {disfmarker} in which it has the um {disfmarker} Well , every action has a set of related schemas like Source - Path - Goal or force , whatever , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "So we would put \" write a letter \" in the categories uh that {disfmarker} in which it had {disfmarker} it w had uh schemas u" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "There could be a communication event action or something like that" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Exactly ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Schemas uh that of that type ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "and you could write it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And then later , you know , there {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} we have a communication event action where we 'd define it down there as {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Hmm . So there 's a bit a redundancy , right ? in {disfmarker} in which the things that go into a particular {disfmarker} You have categories at the top under action schema and the things that go under a particular category are um supposed to have a corresponding schema definition for that type . So I guess what 's the function of having it up there too ? I mean I guess I 'm wondering whether {disfmarker} You could just have under action schema you could just sort of say whatever you know it 's gonna be Enter , View or Approach or whatever number of things" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and pos partly because you need to know somewhere that those things fall into some categories . And it may be multiple categories as you say which is um the reason why it gets a little messy" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "um but if it has {disfmarker} if it 's supposed to be categorized in category X then the corresponding schema X will be among the structures that {disfmarker} that follow ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right . Well , this is one of things we were arguing about ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "That 's like {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "th this is {disfmarker} this r" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , sorry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "this is {disfmarker} this is more {disfmarker} this is probably the way that th that 's the way that seemed more intuitive to Johno I guess" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "You didn't tell me to {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "also for a while {disfmarker} for" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh - huh . But now you guys have seen the light ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No , no , no . Uh we have not {disfmarker} we have not seen the light ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "No ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "The {disfmarker} the reason {disfmarker} One reason we 're doing it this way is in case there 's extra structure that 's in the Enter action that 's not captured by the schemas ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I it 's easy to go back and forth isn't it ? Uh - huh . I agree . Right . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Which is why I would think you would say Enter and then just say all the things that are relevant specifically to Enter . And then the things that are abstract will be in the abstract things as well . And that 's why the bindings become useful ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right , but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Ri - You 'd like {disfmarker} so you 're saying you could practically turn this structure inside out ? or something , or {disfmarker} ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Um Ye - I see what you mean by that ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No basically w" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "but I {disfmarker} I don't if I would {disfmarker} I would need to have t have that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Get {disfmarker} get rid of the sort of SPG slash something uh or the sub - actions category ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "because what does that tell us ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh - huh . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um and I agree that you know this is something we need to discuss ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I in fact what you could say is for Enter ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "you could say \" here , list all the kinds of schemas that {disfmarker} on the category that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "List all the parent categories ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "you know i list all the parent categories \" . It 's just like a frame hierarchy ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "like you have these blended frames . So you would say enter and you 'd say my parent frames are such - and - such , h and then those are the ones that actually you then actually define and say how the roles bind to your specific roles which will probably be f richer and fuller and have other stuff in there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah . This sounds like a paper I 've read around here recently in terms of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah it could {vocalsound} be not a coincidence . Like I said , I 'm sure I 'm just hitting everything with a hammer that I developed ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "but I mean you know uh it 's {disfmarker} I 'm just telling you what I think , you just hit the button and it 's like {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And , I guess fr uh" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah I mean but there 's a good question here . Like , I mean uh do you {disfmarker} When do you need {disfmarker} Damn this headset ! When you this uh , eh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Metacomment ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah . {comment} That 's all recorded . Um . Why do you {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "\" Damn this project . \" No just kidding ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I don't know . Like {disfmarker} How do I {disfmarker} how do I come at this question ? Um . I just don't see why you would {disfmarker} I mean does th Who uses this uh {disfmarker} this data structure ? You know ? Like , do you say \" alright I 'm going to uh {disfmarker} {pause} do an SPG action \" . And then you know somebody ne either the computer or the user says \" alright , well , I know I want to do a Source - Path - Goal action so what are my choices among that ? \" And \" oh , OK , so I can do an Enter - View - Approach \" . It 's not like that , right ? It 's more like you say \" I want to , uh {disfmarker} {pause} I want to do an Enter . \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Well only one of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "And then you 're more interested in knowing what the parent categories are of that . Right ? So that the um {disfmarker} the uh sort of representation that you were just talking about seems more relevant to the kinds of things you would have to do ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I 'd {disfmarker} I" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I think I 'd {disfmarker} I 'm not sure if I understand your question . Only one of those things are gonna be lit up when we pass this on . So only Enter will be {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "if we {disfmarker} if our {disfmarker} if our module decided that Enter is the case , View and Approach will not be there ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well {vocalsound} uh it 's {disfmarker} it sort of came into my mind that sometimes even two could be on , and would be interesting ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um nevertheless um" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mayb - Well maybe I 'm not understanding where this comes from and where this goes to ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Well in that case , we can't {disfmarker} we can't w if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "l let 's {disfmarker} let 's not {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "well the thing is if that 's the case we {disfmarker} our {disfmarker} I don't think our system can handle that currently ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "What are we doing with this ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "No , not at all . But {disfmarker} U s {vocalsound} t So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "In principle ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "\" Approach and then enter . \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "the {disfmarker} I think the {disfmarker} in some sense we {disfmarker} we ex get the task done extremely well" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Run like this uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "because this is exactly the discussion we need {disfmarker} need ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Period . No more qualifiers than that . So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "No , this is the useful ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and um and {disfmarker} and I th I hope" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "you know , don don't worry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um uh let 's make a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a sharper claim . We will not end this discussion anytime soon ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah , I can guarantee that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And it 's gonna get more and more complex the {disfmarker} the l complexer and larger our domains get ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Sigh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And I think um we will have all of our points in writing pretty soon . So this is nice about being being recorded also . The um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "That 's true ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "The r uh the {disfmarker} in terms of why is {disfmarker} it 's laid out like this versus some other {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "the people {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "um that 's kind of a contentious point between the two of us but {vocalsound} this is one wa so this is a way to link uh the way these roles are filled out to the action ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "In my view ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Because if we know that Enter is a t is an SPG action ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "we know to look for an SPG schema and put the appropriate {disfmarker} fill in the appropriate roles later on ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "And you could have also indicated that by saying \" Enter , what are the kinds of action I am ? \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right ? So there 's just like sort of reverse organization , right ? So like unless @ @ {disfmarker} Are there reasons why one is better than the other I mean that come from other sources ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Again {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yes because nobod no the modules don't {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . uh" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "This is {disfmarker} this is a schema that defines XML messages that are passed from one module to another ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "mainly meaning from the natural language understanding , or from the deep language understanding to the action planner ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Now the {disfmarker} the reason for {disfmarker} for not using this approach is because you always will have to go back , each module will try {disfmarker} have to go back to look up which uh you know entity can have which uh , you know , entity can have which parents , and then {disfmarker} So you always need the whole body of {disfmarker} of y your model um to figure out what belongs to what . Or you always send it along with it ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "nuh ? So you always send up \" here I am {disfmarker} I am this person , and I can have these parents \" in every message ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "which e" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , so it 's just like a pain to have to send it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It may or may not be a just a pain it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} I 'm completely willing to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to throw all of this away" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , I understand ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and completely redo it ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Well {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "you know and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and it after some iterations we may just do that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I {disfmarker} I would just like to ask um like , if it could happen for next time , I mean , just beca cuz I 'm new" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "and I don't really just {disfmarker} I just don't know what to make of this and what this is for , and stuff like that , you know , so if someone could make an example of what would actually be in it ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "like first of all what modules are talking to each other using this ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , we {disfmarker} I will promise for the next time to have fleshed out N {comment} XML examples for a {disfmarker} a run through and {disfmarker} and see how this {disfmarker} this then translates ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "right ? And {disfmarker} OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and how this can come about ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Be great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "nuh ? including the sort of \" miracle occurs here \" um part ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um is there more to be said ? I think um {disfmarker} In principle what I {disfmarker} I think that this approach does , and e e whether or not we take the Enter - View and we all throw up {disfmarker} up the ladder um wha how do how does Professor Peter call that ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The uh hhh , {comment} silence su sublimination ? Throwing somebody up the stairs ? Have you never read the Peter 's Principle anyone here ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Nope ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh , uh" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "People reach their level of uh max their level of {disfmarker} at which they 're incompetent or whatever ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Maximum incompetence" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah . Right , right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and then you can throw them up the stairs" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Alright ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh !" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "um . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Promote them , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK , so we can promote Enter - View all {disfmarker} all up a bit and and get rid of the uh blah - blah - X - blah uh asterisk sub - action item altogether . No {disfmarker} no problem with that" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and we {disfmarker} w we {disfmarker} we will play around with all of them but the principal distinction between having the {disfmarker} the pure schema and their instantiations on the one hand , and adding some whatever , more intention oriented specification um on parallel to that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} this approach seems to be uh workable to me . I don't know . If you all share that opinion then that made my day much happier ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "This is a simple way to basically link uh roles to actions ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh yeah wait {disfmarker} R Yeah , yeah . That 's fine ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "That 's the {disfmarker} that was the intent of {disfmarker} of it , basically ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Sure . Sure ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Uh that 's true ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Although um roles {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "So I {disfmarker} I do I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm never happy when he uses the word \" roles \" ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I 'm {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . I was going to {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I b I mean ROLLS so" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Bread rolls ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Oh you meant pastries , then ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah , pastries is what I 'm talking about ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Pastry oh ba oh the bak bakery example ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Bakery . Bakery ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "This is the bakery example . Got it . Alright ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I see . Right . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Help !" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I guess I 'll agree to that , then ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK . That 's all I have for today . Oh no , there 's one more issue . Bhaskara brought that one up . Meeting time rescheduling ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I n Didn't you say something about Friday ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "or {disfmarker} ? Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So it looks like you have not been partaking , the Monday at three o ' clock time has turned out to be not good anymore . So people have been thinking about an alternative time and the one we came up with is Friday two - thirty ? three ? What was it ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "You have class until two , right ? so if we don't want him {disfmarker} if we don't want him to run over here" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Two - th Two - thirty - ish or three or Friday at three or something around that time ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So do I . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "two thirty - ish or three is {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Yeah . Yeah . e" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um how {disfmarker} how are your {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "That would be good ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "uh Friday uh Yeah , that 's fine ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And I know that you have until three {disfmarker} You 're busy ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So three is {disfmarker} sounds good ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I 'll be free by then ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I could do that . Yeah I mean earlier on Friday is better but three {disfmarker} you know I mean {disfmarker} if it were a three or a three thirty time then I would take the three or whatever ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "but yeah sure three is fine ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , and you can always make it shortly after three probably ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I mean ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Yeah , and I don't need to be here particularly deeply ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Often , no , but uh ," }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "whenever ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "But yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You are more than welcome if you think that this kind of discussion gets you anywhere in {disfmarker} in your life then uh you 're free to c" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "It 's fascinating ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "\" That 's the right answer . \"" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "I 'm just glad that I don't have to work it out" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "because ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "I 'm just glad that don't have to work it out myself , that I 'm not involved at all in the working out of it because ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Uh but you 're a linguist ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "You should {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Oh yeah . That 's why I 'm glad that I 'm not involved in working it out ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So it 's at Friday at three ? there that 's" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "And um" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "So already again this week ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "How diligent do we feel ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "huh ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Do feel that we have done our chores for this week or {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Yeah . So I mean clearly there 's {disfmarker} I can talk about the um the parser changes on Friday at least ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK , Bhaskara will do the big show on Friday ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "so ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "And you guys will argue some more ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And between now and then yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah . Between now and then ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and have some ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "We will {disfmarker} r" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Promise ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "probably ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "We will . Don't worry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "And we 'll get the summary like , this {disfmarker} the c you know , short version , like {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "An - and I would like to second Keith 's request ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "S" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "An example wo would be nice t to have kind of a detailed example ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yes . I 've {disfmarker} I 've {disfmarker} I 've {disfmarker} I guess I 'm on record for promising that now ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "So um {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Like have it {disfmarker} we 'll have it in writing . So . or , better , speech . So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "This is it and um" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "The other good thing about it is Jerry can be on here on Friday and he can weigh in as well ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . and um if you can get that binding point also maybe with a nice example that would be helpful for Johno and me ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh yeah uh OK . let 's uh yeah they 're {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Give us {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "No problem ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I think you 've got one on hand ," }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "huh ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I have several in my head , yeah . Always thinking about binding ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the binding is technically no problem but it 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} for me it seems to be conceptually important that we find out if we can s if {disfmarker} if there {disfmarker} if there are things in there that are sort of a general nature , we should distill them out and put them where the schemas are ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "If there are things that you know are intention - specific , then we should put them up somewhere , a" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So , in general they 'll be bindings across both intentions and the actions ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yep . That 's wonderful ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So {disfmarker} Yeah . So it 's gen it 's general across all of these things" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "it 's like {disfmarker} I mean Shastri would say you know binding is like {vocalsound} an essential cognitive uh process . So . {vocalsound} Um ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So I don't think it will be isolated to one or the two , but you can definitely figure out where {disfmarker} Yeah , sometimes things belong and {disfmarker} So actually I 'm not sure {disfmarker} I would be curious to see how separate the intention part and the action part are in the system . Like I know the whole thing is like intention lattice , or something like that ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "right ? So is the ri right now are the ideas the rich {disfmarker} rich the RAD or whatever is one you know potential block inside intention . It 's still {disfmarker} it 's still mainly intention hypothesis" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and then that 's just one way to describe the {disfmarker} the action part of it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "It 's an a attempt to refine it basically ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's {disfmarker} And yeah ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , great uh - huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "it 's an {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's sort of {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Not just that you want to go from here to here , it 's that the action is what you intend" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and this action consists of all com complicated modules and image schemas and whatever ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . And {disfmarker} and there will be a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a relatively high level of redundancy" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "in the sense that um ultimately one {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm . which is , yeah , It 's fine" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "so th so that if we want to get really cocky we we will say \" well if you really look at it , you just need our RAD . \" You can throw the rest away , right ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Because you 're not gonna get anymore information out of the action a as you find it there in the domain object ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Right . Right . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "But then again um in this case , the domain object may contain information that we don't really care about either . So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "H But w we 'll see that then , and how {disfmarker} how it sort of evolves ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "I mean if {disfmarker} if people really like our {disfmarker} our RAD , I mean w what might happen is that they will get rid of that action thing completely , you know , and leave it up for us to get the parser input um" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mmm . We know the things that make use of this thing so that we can just change them so that they make use of RAD ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "You don't have to use the acronym ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I can't believe we 're using this term . So I 'm like RAD ! Like every time I say it , it 's horrible . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I see what you mean ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "RAD 's a great term ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Is the {disfmarker} But what is the \" why \" ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "It 's rad , even !" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Why ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Why ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "It happened to c be what it stands for ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "It just happened to be the acronym ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Well {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . That 's {disfmarker} doesn't make it a great term . It 's just like those jokes where you have to work on both levels ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "ye no but i" }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Just think of it as {disfmarker} as \" wheel \" in German ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "but if you {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker} if you work in th in that XML community it is a great acronym" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Do you see what I mean ? Like" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "because it e evokes whatever RDF {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "RDF is the biggest thing right ? That 's the rich {disfmarker} sort of \" Resource Description Framework \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Oh \" rich de \"" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "and um {disfmarker} and also {disfmarker} So , description , having the word d term \" description \" in there is wonderful ," }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "uh \" rich \" is also great , rwww ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Who doesn't like to be a" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Everybody likes action ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Yeah . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Plus it 's hip . The kids 'll like it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "But what if it 's not an action ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's {disfmarker} it 's rad ," }, { "speaker": "Undergrad D", "content": "Yeah all the kids 'll love it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad F", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "And intentions will be \" RID \" ? Like , \" OK \" . Um are the {disfmarker} are the sample data that you guys showed sometime ago {disfmarker} like the things {disfmarker} maybe {disfmarker} maybe you 're gonna run a trial tomorrow . I mean , I 'm just wondering whether the ac some the actual sentences from this domain will be available . Cuz it 'd be nice for me to like look if I 'm thinking about examples I 'm mostly looking at child language which you know will have some overlap but not total with the kinds of things that you guys are getting . So you showed some in this {disfmarker} here before" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "and maybe you 've posted it before but where would I look if I want to see ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Oh I {disfmarker} You want audio ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "You know ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "or do you want transcript ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "No just {disfmarker} just transcript ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah , well just transcript is just not available because nobody has transcribed it yet ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Sorry ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Um I can e I can uh I 'll transcribe it though ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Oh , OK . I take that back then ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "It 's no problem ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK , well don't {disfmarker} don't make it a high priority {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I {disfmarker} In fact if you just tell me like you know like two examples" }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "I mean , y The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the representational problems are {disfmarker} I 'm sure , will be there ," }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "like enough for me to think about . So ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "OK , so Friday , whoever wants and comes , and can ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "This Friday ." }, { "speaker": "Grad G", "content": "Here . OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "The big parser show . Now you can all turn off your {disfmarker}" } ] }, { "topic_list": [ { "topic": "SmartKom architecture", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "0", "119" ] ] }, { "topic": "Interaction of SmartKom modules", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "120", "411" ] ] }, { "topic": "Adapting SmartKom to tourist domain", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "412", "591" ] ] } ], "general_query_list": [ { "query": "What was discussed in the meeting?", "answer": "The group discussed plans and concerns regarding the architecture of SmartKom, its proposed modules, and the types of interactions expected to take place between modules. The meeting was largely focused on SmartKom's decision making capacity and how to adapt this functionality to the tourist information domain. The group set a date for assessing SmartKom plans." } ], "specific_query_list": [ { "query": "Summarize what was said on SmartKom architecture", "answer": "It was decided that SmartKom's action plans should be represented in XML as a state transition network. It was proposed that the term 'dialogue planner' should replace 'dialogue manager'. Prolog will be phased out completely and replaced by Java code. The dialogue manager must be capable of changing states, i.e. go from being event driven to answering a question from a planning module.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "112", "183" ] ] }, { "query": "What were the modules for the SmartKom. ", "answer": "SmartKom should feature a well defined core interface, with domain-specific information kept external. A syntactic analysis component that performs chunk parsing will be added to the system.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "158", "190" ] ] }, { "query": "What problems were reported due to SmartKom modules interaction?", "answer": "As a functional module, the action planner is too restrictive for the tourist domain and requires complex slots from the dialogue manager. Interactions in a deep map system between the spatial planner and the route planner are too convoluted. SmartKom requires a fast and robust parser that includes language-specific extensions.", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "102", "121" ] ] }, { "query": "What was said about the parser interface?", "answer": "Efforts are in progress to complete and test the code, generate an English grammar like that used in the German system, and get the parser interface working. A 'wizard of Oz' style data collection experiment is in progress to model users' underlying intentions when communicating with the dialogue component of a tourist domain GPS. ", "relevant_text_span": [ [ "28", "61" ] ] } ], "meeting_transcripts": [ { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Hmm . Testing channel two ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Two , two . " }, { "speaker": "Grad C", "content": "Two ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Two . Oh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hello ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Hmm ? Yeah Thank You . OK Well , so Ralf and Tilman are here ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK . Great . Great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Made it safely ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So the {disfmarker} what w we h have been doing i they would like us all to read these digits . But we don't all read them but a couple people read them ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Uh , wanna give them all with German accents today or {disfmarker} ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Sure ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK and the way you do it is you just read the numbers not as uh each single , so just like I do it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK . First you read the transcript number . Turn ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "OK , uh {disfmarker} What 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK . Let 's be done with this ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK . this is Ami , who {disfmarker} And this is Tilman and Ralf ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hi . Uh - huh . Nice to meet you ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hi ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Hi . OK . So we 're gonna try to finish by five so people who want to can go hear Nancy Chang 's talk , uh downstairs ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And you guys are g giving talks on tomorrow and Wednesday lunch times ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "right ? That 's great . OK so , do y do you know what we 're gonna do ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I thought two things uh we 'll introduce ourselves and what we do . And um we already talked with Andreas , Thilo and David and some lines of code were already written today and almost tested and just gonna say we have um again the recognizer to parser thing where we 're working on and that should be no problem and then that can be sort of developed uh as needed when we get {disfmarker} enter the tourism domain . em we have talked this morning with the {disfmarker} with Tilman about the generator ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "S" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and um There one of our diligent workers has to sort of volunteer to look over Tilman 's shoulder while he is changing the grammars to English" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "because w we have {disfmarker} we face two ways . Either we do a syllable concatenating um grammar for the English generation which is sort of starting from scratch and doing it the easy way , or we simply adopt the ah um more in - depth um style that is implemented in the German system and um are then able not only to produce strings but also the syntactic parse uh not parse not the syntactic tree that is underneath in the syntactic structure which is the way we decided we were gonna go because A , it 's easier in the beginning" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and um it does require some {disfmarker} some knowledge of {disfmarker} of those grammars and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some ling linguistic background . But um it shouldn't be a problem for anyone ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK So That sounds good . Johno , are you gonna have some time t to do that uh w with these guys ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Sure ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "cuz y you 're the grammar maven ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "I mean it makes sense ," }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "doesn't it ? Yeah Good . OK . So , I think that 's probably the {disfmarker} the right way to do that . And an Yeah , so I {disfmarker} I actually wanna f to find out about it too , but I may not have time to get in ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "the {disfmarker} the ultimate goal is that before they leave we {disfmarker} we can run through the entire system input through output on at least one or two sample things . And um and by virtue of doing that then in this case Johno will have acquired the knowledge of how to extend it . Ad infinitum . When needed , if needed , when wanted and so forth ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK that sounds great ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And um also um Ralf has hooked up with David and you 're gonna continue either all through tonight or tomorrow on whatever to get the er parser interface working ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "They are thinning out and thickening out lattices and doing this kind of stuff to see what works best ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm , yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Great . So , you guys enjoy your weekend ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes , very much so ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , very much" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK , before {disfmarker} before you got put to work ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Great . OK , so that 's {disfmarker} Sort of one branch is to get us caught up on what 's going on . Also of course it would be really nice to know what the plans are , in addition to what 's sort of already in code ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and we can d I dunno w w was there uh a time when we were set up to do that ? It probably will work better if we do it later in the week , after {pause} we actually understand uh better what 's going on ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So when do you guys leave ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Um we 're here through Sunday ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "so All through Friday would be fine ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Oh , OK , so {disfmarker} OK , So {disfmarker} so anyt we 'll find a time later in the week to uh get together and talk about {pause} your understanding of what SmartKom plans are ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and how we can change them ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes . Sure ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Uh ," }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Should we already set a date for that ? Might be beneficial while we 're all here ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ? um What {disfmarker} what does not work for me is Thursday afternoon . I can do earlier in the day on Thursday , or {pause} um {pause} most of the time on Friday , not all ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Thursday morning sounds fine ?" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Wha - but , Johno ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "what are your constraints ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "um Thursday afternoon doesn't work for me , but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Neither does Thursday morning , no ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "Uh Thursday morning should be fine ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Eleven ? Eleven on Thursday ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "I was just thinking I w I will {pause} have {pause} leavened by eleven ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right . Right . This is then out of deference to our non - morning people ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm . OK . So at eleven ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Thursday around eleven ? OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah . And actually we can invite um Andreas as well ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Uh he will be in Washington , though ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Oh that 's true . He 's off {disfmarker} off on his trip already ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "but um David is here and he 's actually knows everything about the SmartKom recognizer ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Thilo . OK well yeah maybe we 'll see if David could make it . That would be good ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK so facing to {disfmarker} to what we 've sort of been doing here um well for one thing we 're also using this room to collect data ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah obviously ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "um um Not this type of data ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "no not meeting data but sort of {disfmarker} sort ah our version of a wizard experiment such not like the ones in Munich but pretty close to it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "The major difference to the Munich ones is that we do it via the telephone" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "even though all the recording is done here and so it 's a {disfmarker} sort of a computer call system that gives you tourist information" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "tells you how to get places . And it breaks halfway through the experiment and a human operator comes on . and part of that is sort of trying to find out whether people change their linguistic verbal behavior when first thinking they speak to a machine and then to a human ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and we 're setting it up so that we can {disfmarker} we hope to implant certain intentions in people . For example um we have first looked at a simple sentence that \" How do I get to the Powder - Tower ? \" OK so you have the {disfmarker} castle of Heidelberg" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and there is a tower and it 's called Powder - Tower ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh , OK . Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and um so What will you parse out of that sentence ? Probably something that we specified in M - three - L , that is @ @ {comment} \" action go to whatever domain , object whatever Powder - Tower \" ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And maybe some model will tell us , some GPS module , in the mobile scenario where the person is at the moment . And um we 've sort of gone through that once before in the Deep Mail project and we noticed that first of all what are {disfmarker} I should 've brought some slides , but what our {disfmarker} So here 's the tower . Think of this as a two - dimensional representation of the tower . And our system led people here , to a point where they were facing a wall in front of the tower . There is no entrance there , but it just happens to be the closest point of the road network to the geometric center Because that 's how the algorithm works . So we took out that part of the road network as a hack and then it found actually the way to the entrance . which was now the closest point of the road network to" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK , geometric center . But what we actually observed in Heidelberg is that most people when they want to go there they actually don't want to enter , because it 's not really interesting . They wanna go to a completely different point where they can look at it and take a picture ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And so what uh uh a s you s let 's say a simple parse from a s from an utterance won't really give us is what the person actually wants . Does he wanna go there to see it ? Does he wanna go there now ? Later ? How does the person wanna go there ? Is that person more likely to want to walk there ? Walk a scenic route ? and so forth . There are all kinds of decisions that we have identified in terms of getting to places and in terms of finding information about things . And we are constructing {disfmarker} and then we 've identified more or less the extra - linguistic parameters that may f play a role . Information related to the user and information related to the situation . And we also want to look closely on the linguistic information that what we can get from the utterance . That 's part of why we implant these intentions in the data collection to see whether people actually phrase things differently whether they want to enter in order to buy something or whether they just wanna go there to look at it . And um so the idea is to construct uh um suitable interfaces and a belief - net for a module that actually tries to guess what the underlying intention {pause} was . And then enrich or augment the M - three - L structures with what it thought what more it sort of got out of that utterance . So if it can make a good suggestion , \" Hey ! \" you know , \" that person doesn't wanna enter . That person just wants to take a picture , \" cuz he just bought film , or \" that person wants to enter because he discussed the admission fee before \" . Or \" that person wants to enter because he wants to buy something and that you usually do inside of buildings \" and so forth . These ah these types of uh these bits of additional information are going to be embedded into the M - three - L structure in an {disfmarker} sort of subfield that we have reserved . And if the action planner does something with it , great . If not you know , then that 's also something um that we can't really {disfmarker} at least we {comment} want to offer the extra information . We don't really {disfmarker} um we 're not too worried ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "I mean {disfmarker} t s Ultimately if you have {disfmarker} if you can offer that information , somebody 's gonna s do something with it sooner or later . That 's sort of part of our belief ." }, { "speaker": "Grad E", "content": "What was he saying ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Um , for example , right now I know the GIS from email is not able to calculate these viewpoints . So that 's a functionality that doesn't exist yet to do that dynamically ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "but if we can offer it that distinction , maybe somebody will go ahead and implement it . Surely nobody 's gonna go ahead and implement it if it 's never gonna be used , so . What have I forgotten about ? Oh yeah , how we do it ," }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Well th uh" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "yeah that 's the" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "No no . It 's a good time to pause . I s I see {pause} questions on peoples ' faces , so why don't {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} Let 's hear {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well the obvious one would be if {disfmarker} if you envision this as a module within SmartKom , where exactly would that Sit ? That 's the d" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "um {disfmarker} so far I 've thought of it as sort of adding it onto the modeler knowledge module ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "So this is one that already adds additional information to the" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Makes perfect sense . Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm , ah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "but it could sit anywhere in the attention - recognition I mean basically this is what attention - recognition literally sort of can {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well it 's supposed to do . Yeah" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "That 's what it should do ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Huh ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well f from my understanding of what the people at Phillips were originally trying to do doesn't seem to quite fit into SmartKom currently so what they 're really doing right now is only selecting among the alternatives , the hypotheses that they 're given enriched by the domain knowledge and the um discourse modeler and so on ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So if {disfmarker} if this is additional information that could be merged in by them ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And then it would be available to action planning and {disfmarker} and others ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah . the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "let 's {disfmarker} let 's That w OK that was one question . Is there other {disfmarker} other things that cuz {pause} we wanna not Pa - pass over any {pause} you know , questions or concerns that you have ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well there 're {disfmarker} there 're two levels of {disfmarker} of giving an answer and I guess on both levels I don't have any um further questions ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm . Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "uh the {disfmarker} the two levels will be as far as I 'm concerned as {pause} uh standing here for the generation module" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and the other is {disfmarker} is my understanding of what SmartKom uh is supposed to be" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and I {disfmarker} I think that fits in perfectly" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So {disfmarker} well , let me {disfmarker} Let me s {pause} expand on that a little bit from the point of view of the generation ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So the idea is that we 've actually got this all laid out an and we could show it to you ig um Robert didn't bring it today but there 's a {disfmarker} a belief - net which is {disfmarker} There 's a first cut at a belief - net that {disfmarker} that doesn't {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} isn't fully uh instantiated , and in particular some of the {disfmarker} the combination rules and ways of getting the {disfmarker} the conditional probabilities aren't there . But we believe that we have laid out the fundamental decisions in this little space" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and the things that influence them . So one of the decisions is what we call this AVE thing . Do you want to um access , view or enter a thing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So that 's a a discrete decision ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "There are only three possibilities and the uh {disfmarker} what one would like is for this uh , knowledge modeling module to add which of those it is and give it to the planner ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "But , uh th the current design suggests that if it seems to be an important decision and if the belief - net is equivocal so that it doesn't say that one of these is much more probable than the other , then an option is to go back and ask for the information you want ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Alright ? Now there are two ways one can go {disfmarker} a imagine doing that . For the debugging we 'll probably just have a {disfmarker} a drop - down menu and the {disfmarker} while you 're debugging you will just {disfmarker} OK . But for a full system , then one might very well formulate a query ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "give it to the dialogue planner and say this , you know ar are you know you {disfmarker} are you planning to enter ? Or whatever it {disfmarker} whatever that might be . So that 's {disfmarker} under that model then , There would be a {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} um a loop in which this thing would formulate a query ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "presumably give it to you . That would get expressed and then hopefully you know , you 'd get an answer {pause} back ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And that would of course {disfmarker} the answer would have to be parsed ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm . Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "right and {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK so , {pause} th {pause} that uh , We probably won't do this early on , because the current focus is more on the decision making and stuff like that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "But While we 're on the subject I just wanted to give you a sort of head 's up that it could be that some months from now we said \" OK we 're now ready to try to close that loop \" in terms of querying about some of these decisions ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yep . So {disfmarker} my suggestion then is that you um look into the currently ongoing discussion about how the action plans are supposed to look like . And they 're currently um Agreeing or {disfmarker} or in the process of agreeing on an X M L - ification of um something like a state - transition network of how dialogues would proceed . and {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} these um transition networks uh will be what the action planner interprets in a sense ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Hmm . D did you know this Robert ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "uh Michael is doing that , right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well uh Marcus Lerkult is actually implementing that stuff and Marcus and Michael together are um leading the discussion there , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So we ha we have to get in on that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "because um partly those are like X - schemas ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Definitely ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "the transition diagrams ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And it may be that {disfmarker} that um we should early on make sure that they have the flexibility that we need ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Hmm . But they uh Have I understood this right ? They {disfmarker} they govern more or less the {disfmarker} the dialogue behavior or the action {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "It 's not really what you do with the content of the dialogue but it 's So , I mean there is this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this nice interf" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "uh , No , it 's {disfmarker} it 's also a quantrant uh uh {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "i Is it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So there 's ac so there {disfmarker} th the word \" action \" , OK , is {disfmarker} is what 's ambiguous here ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I think . Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So , um one thing is there 's an actual planner that tells the person in the tourist domain now ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "per tells the person how to go , \" First go here ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "first go there uh , you know , take a bus \" , whatever it is . So that 's that form of planning , and action , and a route planner and GIS , all sort of stuff . uh But I think that isn't what you mean ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No . No , in SmartKom terminology that 's um called a function that 's modeled by a function modeler . And it 's th that 's completely um encapsulated from th the dialogue system . That 's simply a functionality that you give data as in a query and then you get back from that mmm , a functioning model um which might be a planner or a VCR or whatever . um some result and that 's then {disfmarker} then used ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Well , OK , so that 's what I thought . So action he action here means dia uh speech ac uh you know dialogue act ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah , yeah . Yeah , in that {disfmarker} in that sense" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "yes , dialogue act ," }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Um , I think tha I think it 's not going to {disfmarker} I think that 's not going to be good enough . I I don what uh {disfmarker} what I meant by that . So I think the idea of having a , you know , transition diagram for the grammar of conversations is a good idea ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ? And I think that we do hav definitely have to get in on it and find out {disfmarker} OK . But I think that um when {disfmarker} so , when you get to the tourist domain it 's not just an information retrieval system ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm . Clearly . Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ? So this i this is where I think this {disfmarker} people are gonna have to think this through a bit more carefully ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So , if it 's only like in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the film and T V thing , OK , you can do this . And you just get information and give it to people . But what happens when you actually get them moving and so forth and so on" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Uh , y y your {disfmarker} I d I think the notion of this as a self contained uh module you know th the functional module that {disfmarker} that interacts with {disfmarker} with where the tourism g stuff is going {comment} probably is too restrictive ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Now I dunno how much people have thought ahead to the tourist domain in this" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Probably not enough , I mean an {disfmarker} another uh more basic point there is that the current um tasks and therefore th the concepts in this ac what 's called the action plan and what 's really the dialogue manager ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "um is based on slots that have to be filled and the um kind of values in these slots would be fixed things like the a time or a movie title or something like this" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Mm - hmm . Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "whereas in the a um tourist domain it might be an entire route . Set - based , or even very complex structured information in these slots" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Indeed . Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and I 'm not sure if {disfmarker} if complex slots of that type are really um being taken into consideration ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "So that 's {disfmarker} that 's really something we" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Could you {disfmarker} could you put a message into the right place to see if we can at least ask that question ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I mean nothing 's being completely settled there" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "rea yep" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "so this is really an ongoing discussion" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Mm - hmm" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and that 's" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "yeah and um it might actually OK ah also {disfmarker} because um again in in Deep Map we have faced and implemented those problems once already" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "maybe we can even shuffle some know how from there to to Markus and Michael ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And um mmm You don't know {disfmarker} OK th I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll talk to Michael it 's what I do anyway . Who {disfmarker} How far is the uh the {disfmarker} the M - three - L specification for {disfmarker} for the la natural language input gone on the {disfmarker} the uh I haven't seen anything for the uh tourist path domain ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's not defined yet ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And um you are probably also involved in that ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Um {disfmarker} Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "right ? uh together with the usual gang , um Petra and Jan" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm . Yeah , there 's a meeting next next week I think" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK because That 's {disfmarker} Those are the {disfmarker} I think the {disfmarker} the true key issues is how does the whatever comes out of the language input pipeline look like and then what the action planner does with it {disfmarker} and how that is uh specified . I didn't think of the internal working of the uh the action planner and the language {disfmarker} uh the function model as sort of relevant . Because what {disfmarker} what they take is sort of this {disfmarker} this fixed representation of a {disfmarker} of an intention ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And that can be as detailed or as crude as you want it to be . But um the internal workings of of the {disfmarker} whether you know there 're dialogue {disfmarker} action planners that work with belief - nets that are action planners that work with you know state automata . So that shouldn't really matter too much . I mean it does matter because it does have to keep track of you {disfmarker} we are on part six of r a route that consists of eight steps and so forth" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah , th there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} I think there are a lot of reasons why it matters . OK , so that uh , for example , the i it 's the action planner is going to take some spec and s make some suggestions about what the user should do . What the user says after that is going to be very much caught up with what the action planner told it ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "If the {disfmarker} If the parser and the language end doesn't know what the person 's been told OK th it 's you 're making your life much more difficult than it has to be ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ? So if someone says the best t to uh go there is by taxi , let 's say . Now the planner comes out and says you wanna get there fast , take a taxi . OK . And the language end doesn't know that . OK , there 's all sorts of dialogues that won't make any sense which would be just fine ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "hmm" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "uh" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "That would b but that {disfmarker} I think that {disfmarker} that uh point has been realized and it 's {disfmarker} it 's not really um been defined yet but there 's gonna be some kind of feedback and input from uh the action planner into all the analysis modules , telling them what to expect and what the current state of the discourse is ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Beyond what 's currently being implemented which is just word lists ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah , but this is not the st this is not just the state of the discourse ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Of {disfmarker} of special interest ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "This is actually the state of the plan . That 's why" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes , Yes , Mm - hmm yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK so it {disfmarker} z and s uh , It 's great if people are already taking that into account . But One would have t have to see {disfmarker} see the details ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "The specifics aren't really there yet . Yes . So , there 's work to do there ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah . So anyway , Robert , that 's why I was thinking that" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "um I think you 're gonna need {disfmarker} We talked about this several times that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the input end is gonna need a fair amount of feedback from the planning end ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "hmm" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "In {disfmarker} in one of these things which are {disfmarker} are much more continuous than the {disfmarker} just the dialogue over movies and stuff ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And even on {disfmarker} on a more basic level the {disfmarker} the action planner actually needs to be able to have um an expressive power that can deal with these structures . And not just um say um {disfmarker} um the dialogue um will consist of ten possible states and th these states really are fixed in {disfmarker} in a certain sense ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Hmm ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "You have to {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Would there be any chance of getting the terminology changed so that the dialogue planner was called a \" dialogue planner \" ? Because there 's this other thing The o There 's this other thing in {disfmarker} in the tourist domain which is gonna be a route planner" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "That 'd be nice ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "or {disfmarker} It 's really gonna be an action planner . And {comment} i it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "It oughta be called a {disfmarker} a dialogue manager . cuz that 's what everybody else calls it ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "I would think ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Huh ? So , s So what would happen if we sent a note saying \" Gee we 've talked about this and couldn't we change this uh th the whole word ? \" I have no idea how complicated these things are ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Probably close to impossible ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Depends on who you talk to how . We 'll see . I 'll go check , cause I completely agree . Yeah ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and I think this is just for historical reasons within uh , the preparation phase of the project and not because somebody actually believes it ought to be action planner . So if there is resistance against changing it , that 's just because \" Oh , We don't want to change things . \" That {disfmarker} that not deep reason" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK , anyway . I if {disfmarker} if that c in persists then we 're gonna need another term . for the thing that actually does the planning of the uh routes and whatever we are doing for the tourist ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "That 's external services ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah , but that 's not g eh tha That ha has all the wrong connotations . it 's {disfmarker} it sounds like it 's you know stand alone . It doesn't interact , it doesn't That 's why I 'm saying . I think you can't {disfmarker} it 's fine for looking up when T you know when the show 's on TV . You go to th but I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it 's really {disfmarker} really wrong headed for something that you {disfmarker} that has a lot of state , it 's gonna interact co in a complicated way with the uh understanding parts ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah . Yeah I think just the {disfmarker} the spatial planner and the route planner I showed you once the interac action between them among them in the deep map system" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "so {disfmarker} a printout of the communication between those two fills up I don't know how many pages" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and that 's just part of how do I get to one place . It 's really insane . and uh but um so this is um definitely a good point to get uh Michael into the discussion . Or to enter his discussion , actually ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah , Marcus ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "That 's the way around . Markus" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Wh - where 's ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Is he new in the {disfmarker} in the ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah , he 's {disfmarker} he started um I think January ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And he 's gonna be responsible for the implementation of this action planner . Dialogue manager ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Is he gonna continue with the old {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} thing ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No , no he 's completely gonna rewrite everything . In Java ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "OK so that 's interesting ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yes I was just {disfmarker} that 's my next question" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "hmm" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "whether we 're {disfmarker} we 're gonna stick to Prolog or not ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "No . No , that 's gonna be phased out ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "OK But I do think the {disfmarker} the function modeling concept has a certain {disfmarker} makes sense in a {disfmarker} in a certain light" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "because the action planner should not be {disfmarker} or the dialogue manager in that case should not um w have to worry about whether it 's interfacing with um something that does route planning in this way or that way" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "I I totally agree ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "huh ," }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Sure ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "it j" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah I {disfmarker} I agree . There is {disfmarker} there 's a logic to dialogue which {disfmarker} which is {disfmarker} is separable . I Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and it {disfmarker} cant {disfmarker} sort of formulate its what it wants in a {disfmarker} in a rather a abstract uh way , you know f \" Find me a good route for this . \"" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "It doesn't really have to worry ab how route planner A or how route planner B actually wants it . So this is {disfmarker} seemed like a good idea . In the beginning ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "It 's tricky . It 's tricky because one could well imagine {disfmarker} I think it will turn out to be the case that uh , this thing we 're talking about , th the extended n uh knowledge modeler will fill in some parameters about what the person wants . One could well imagine that the next thing that 's trying to fill out the detailed uh , route planning , let 's say , will also have questions that it would like to ask the user . You could well imagine you get to a point where it 's got a {disfmarker} a choice to make and it just doesn't know something ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And so y you would like it t also be able to uh formulate a query . And to run that back through uh . the dialogue manager and to the output module and back around ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "hmm" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And a I a a good design would {disfmarker} would allow that to happen ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "a lot of , yeah" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "If {disfmarker} if you know if {disfmarker} if you can't make it happen then you {disfmarker} you do your best ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah but that doesn't necessarily contradict um an architecture where there really is a pers a def well - defined interface . and {disfmarker} and" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "I totally agree . But {disfmarker} but what it nee but th what the point is the in that case the dialogue manager is sort of event driven . So the dialogue manager may think it 's in a dialogue state of one sort ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and this {disfmarker} one of these planning modules comes along and says \" hey , right now we need to ask a question \" . So that forces the dialogue manager to change state ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yes" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Sure ," }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "It could be y" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "ye yeah I {disfmarker} I think that 's {disfmarker} that 's the um concept that people have ," }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah , yeah it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "yep ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} the underlying idea of course is that there is something like kernel modules with kernel functionality that you can plug uh certain applications like tourist information or um the home scenario with uh controlling a VCR and so on . And then extend it to an arbitrary number of applications eventually . So {disfmarker} wouldn't That 's an additional reason to have this well - defined interface and keep these things like uh tourist information external ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Oh , yeah , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And then call it external services ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "But of course the {disfmarker} the more complex {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Yeah , there is another philosophical issue that I think you know you can {disfmarker} evade" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "but , at at least it makes sense to me that sooner or later uh {disfmarker} a service is gonna come and describe itself to you . and that 's sort of what Srini is working on in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the DAML uh project where um you {disfmarker} you find a GIS about {disfmarker} that gives you information on Berkeley ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and it 's {disfmarker} it 's gonna be there and tell you what it can do and how it wants to do things . and so you can actually interface to such a system without ever having met it before and the function modeler and a self - description of the um external service haggle it out" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and you can use the same language core , understanding core to interface with planner - A , planner - B , planner - C and so forth ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Which is , you know , uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} utopian {disfmarker} completely utopian at the moment , but slowly , you know , getting into the realm of the uh contingent ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "But we are facing of course much more um realistic problems . And language input for example , is of course uh crucial you know also when you do the sort of deep understanding analysis that we envision . um Then of course , the uh um , you know what is it {disfmarker} poverty of the stimulus , yet the m uh the less we get of that the better . and um so we {disfmarker} we 're thinking , for example how much syntactic analysis actually happens already in the parser . and whether one could interface to that potentially" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm . Yeah , are there currently is uh no syntactic analysis but in the next release there will be some ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "unless" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "How 's it {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and it 's um uh you can access this" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "S so uh y we {disfmarker} we looked at the e current pattern matching thing ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And as you say it 's just a surface pattern matcher . Uh , So what are {disfmarker} what are the plans roughly ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "um it 's to {disfmarker} to integrate and syntactic analysis . and um add some more features like segmentation . So then an utter more than one utterance is {disfmarker} There um there 's often uh pause between it and a segmentation occurs . um" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So , the um {disfmarker} So the idea is to uh {disfmarker} have a pa y y a particular {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "yeah" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Do you have a particular parser in mind ? Is it uh {disfmarker} partic d I mean have you thought through {disfmarker} ? Is it an HPSG parser ? Is it a whatever ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "No {disfmarker} no it 's {disfmarker} uh I think it 's it 's totally complicated for it 's just one {disfmarker} one person" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and so I have to keep the {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Oh , you have to do it . You have to do it ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ," }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "ah and so {vocalsound} things must be simpler" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "I see ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "but uh , Miel syntactic analysis with um finite state transducers ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "so But the people at D F Yeah . People at DFKI have written a fair number of parsers . Other {disfmarker} you know , people over the years . uh have written various parsers at DFKI . None of them are suitable ? I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I d I 'm asking . I don't know ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , uh the problem is th that it has to be very fast because um if you want to for more than one path anywhere" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "what 's in the latches from the speech recognizer" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "so it 's speed is crucial . uh And they are not fast enough ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "And they also have to be very robust . cuz of um speech recognition errors and" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK . So , um {disfmarker} So there was a chunk parser in Verbmobil , that was one of the uh branchers . You know they {disfmarker} d th I c There were these various uh , competing uh syntax modules . And I know one of them was a chunk parser and I don't remember {pause} who did that ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "A Alan ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "I think it 's that might , at Tuebingen I thought ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah I d I don't remember ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "was {disfmarker} Do you know something about that ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Tubingen was at least involved in putting the chunks together" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "In Tub - at {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "I {disfmarker} can't quite recall whether they actually produced the chunks in the first place ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "oh" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Uh . I see . Yeah , that 's right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Or wh" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh from {disfmarker} from Stuttgart ," }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "There w That 's right . They w They had {disfmarker} There were {disfmarker} This was done with a two phase thing , where {comment} the chunk parser itself was pretty stupid" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "yeah , also" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and then there was a kind of trying to fit them together that h used more context ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Right . Yeah" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Well you s and {disfmarker} and especially you did some {disfmarker} some um , l um was a learning - based approach which learned from a big corpus of {disfmarker} of trees ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "And yes the {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} the chunk parser was a finite - state machine that um Mark Light originally w worked on in {disfmarker} while he was in Tuebingen" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "and then somebody else in Tuebingen picked that up . So it was done in Tuebingen , yeah . Definitely ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "But is that the kind of thing y It sounds like the kind of thing that you were thinking of ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah I guess it 's similar ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "yeah . yeah that 's In this direction , yes" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "What ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , it 's in {disfmarker} in this direction ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "The {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "From Michael Strube , I 've heard very good stuff about the chunk parser that is done by FORWISS , uh , which is in embassy doing the parsing ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "So this is sort of {disfmarker} came as a surprise to me that you know , embassy s {comment} is featuring a nice parser but it 's {pause} what I hear . One could also look at that and see whether there is some synergy possible ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm , yeah , it would be very interesting , Mm - hmm . Mmm , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And they 're doing chunk parsing and it 's uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can give you the names of the people who do it there . But um . Then there is of course more ways of parsing things ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Of course . But {disfmarker} But uh given th the constraints , that you want it to be small and fast and so forth , my guess is you 're probably into some kind of chunk parsing . And uh I 'm not a big believer in this um statistical you know , cleaning up uh It {disfmarker} That seems to me kind of a last resort if uh you can't do it any other way . uh but I dunno ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "It may {disfmarker} i i may be that 's what you guys finally decide do . Uh . And have you looked {disfmarker} uh just {disfmarker} again for context {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "There is this {disfmarker} this one that they did at SRI some years ago {disfmarker} Fastus ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "um" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "a {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "yeah , I 've {disfmarker} I 've looked at it but {disfmarker} but it 's no {disfmarker} not much uh information available . I found ," }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "ah !" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "but it 's also finite - state transducers , I thought ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "It is . Yeah . I mean {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it was pretty ambitious ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And of course it was English oriented ," }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , and {disfmarker} and Purely finite - state transducers are not so good for German since there 's um" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "um w Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "The word order is {disfmarker} is uh not fixed" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah , I guess that 's the point is {disfmarker} is all the morphology and stuff . And English is all th all word order . And it makes a lot more sense ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And {disfmarker} e Yeah , OK . Good point . So in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in German you 've got uh most of this done with" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm . Also it 's uh {disfmarker} it 's um {disfmarker} Yes , uh the um choice between uh this processing and that processing and my template matcher ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So what about Um Did y like Morfix ? a a e y you 've got stemmers ? Or is that something that {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Um , yeah but it 's all in the {disfmarker} in the lexicon . So it 's {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "But did you have that ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah th the information is available ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK . I see . So , but {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "So {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So y you just connect to the lexicon" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and uh at least for German you have all {disfmarker} all of the {disfmarker} uh the stemming information ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , we can , oh yeah . We have knowledge bases from {disfmarker} from Verbmobil system we can use" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "and so ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right . But it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it doesn't look like i you 're using it . I didn't n see it being used in the current template uh parser . I {disfmarker} I didn't see any Uh {disfmarker} of course we l actually only looked at the English ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "It {disfmarker} um" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Did we look at the German ? I don't remember ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker} but it 's used for {disfmarker} for stem forms ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So w wha" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "n Well I think {disfmarker} I think there 's some misunderstanding here" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "i" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "it 's {disfmarker} Morphix is not used on - line ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh , OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "s so the lexicon might be derived by Morphix" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "What ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "but What {disfmarker} what 's happening on - line is just um um a {disfmarker} a retrieval from the lexicon which would give all the stemming information" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "so it would be a full foreign lexicon ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And that 's what you have ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yep ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "We threw out all the forms ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "What {disfmarker} uh I didn't reme" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "We threw out all the forms" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Huh ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "because , you know , English , well {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Oh OK , so it {disfmarker} yeah , s s I thought I 'd {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So in German then you actually do case matching and things like in the {disfmarker} in the pattern matcher or not ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "um Not yet but it 's planned to do that ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK . Cuz I r I didn't reme I didn't think I saw it ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Yeah" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Have we looked at the German ? Oh , I haven yeah that 's {disfmarker} getting it from the lexicon is just fine ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Sure , right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Oh yes ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Yeah , yeah , yeah . No problem with that . um Yeah and here 's the case where the English and the German might really be significantly different . In terms of if you 're trying to build some fast parser and so forth and {disfmarker} You really might wanna do it in a significantly different way . I don't know . So you 've {disfmarker} you guys have looked at this ? also ? in terms of You know , w if you 're doing this for English as well as German Um Do you think now that it would be this {disfmarker} doing it similarly ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "um Yeah , it 's um I think it 's um yes , it 's {disfmarker} it 's um possible to {disfmarker} to do list processing . and Maybe this is um more adequate for English and in German um set processing is used ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Set ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Maybe yeah . Some extensions uh have to be made . For {disfmarker} for a English version" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Mmm . OK . Interesting . Not easy ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "Well there 's m I 'm sure there 's gonna be more discussion on that after your talk ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mm - hmm ," }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "We 're just gonna foreshadow what we saw that" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right . Right ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "and um" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Now actually , um Are you guys free at five ? Or {disfmarker} Do you have to go somewhere at five o ' clock tonight ? W in ten minutes ?" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Ah {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I think we 're expect {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "mmm . No . Oder there was an {disfmarker} talk ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah , there {disfmarker} there 's the um practice talk ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "uh Mmm , yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Great . So you 're going to that ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah , that {disfmarker} that 's what we were planning to do ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "That 's good , because that will uh tell you a fair amount about The form of semantic construction grammar that we 're using ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "so {disfmarker} So I th I think that probably as good an introduction as you 'll get ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Ah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Uh to the form of {disfmarker} of uh {disfmarker} conceptual grammar that {disfmarker} that w we have in mind for this ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm , ah ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "It won't talk particularly about how that relates to what uh Robert was saying at the beginning . But let me give you a very short version of this . So we talked about the fact that There 're going to be a certain number of decisions That you want the knowledge modeler to make , that will be then fed to the function module , that does uh , route planning . It 's called the \" route planner \" or something ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So there are these decisions . And then one half of this we talked about at little bit is how if you had the right information , if you knew something about what was said and about th the something about was the agent a tourist or a native or a business person or uh young or old , whatever . That information , and also about the Uh , what we 're calling \" the entity \" , Is it a castle , is it a bank ? Is it a s town square , is it a statue ? Whatever . So all that kind of information could be combined into decision networks and give you decisions . But the other half of the problem is How would you get that kind of information from the parsed input ? So , um So what you might try to do is just build more templates , saying uh we 're trying to build a templ you know build a template that w uh somehow would capture the fact that he wants to take a picture ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ? And {disfmarker} and we could {disfmarker} you could do this . And it 's a small enough domain that probably you , you know {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK . You could do this . But uh from our point of view this is also a research project and there are a couple of people not here for various reasons who are doing doctoral dissertations on this ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and the idea that we 're really after is a very deep semantics based on cognitive linguistics and the notion that there are a relatively small number of primitive conceptual schemas that characterize a lot of activity . So a typical one in this formulation is a container . So this is a static thing . And the notion is that all sorts of physical situations are characterized in terms of containers . Going in and out the portals and con" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK . But also , importantly for Lakoff and these guys is all sorts of metaphorical things are also characterized this way . You get in trouble and you know et cetera" }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Mmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and so {disfmarker} s So , what we 're really trying to do is to map from the discourse to the conceptual semantics level . And from there to the appropriate decisions ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So another one of these primitive , what are called \" image schemas \" , is uh goal seeking . So this a notion of a source , path , goal , trajector , possibly obstacles ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And the idea is this is another conceptual primitive ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And that all sorts of things , particularly in the tourist domain , can be represented in terms of uh source , path and goal . So the idea would be could we build an analyser that would take an utterance and say \" Aha ! th this utterance is talking about an attempt to reach a goal . The goal is this , the pers the , uh traveller is that , uh the sor w where we are at now is is this , they 've mentioned possible obstacles , et cetera . \" So th the {disfmarker} and this is an {disfmarker} again attempt to get very wide coverage . So if you can do this , then the notion would be that across a very large range of domains , you could use this deep conceptual basis as the interface ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And then , uh The processing of that , both on the input end , recognizing that certain words in a language talk about containers or goals , et cetera , and on the output end , given this kind of information , you can then uh make decisions about what actions to take . Provides , they claim , a very powerful , general notion of deep semantics . So that 's what we 're really doing ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And Nancy is going to {disfmarker} Her talk is going to be not about using this in applications , but about modeling how children might learn this kind of uh deep semantic grammar ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yep , yep . And how do you envision um the {disfmarker} the um this deep semantic to be worked with . Would it be highly ambiguous if and then there would be another module that takes that um highly underspecified deep semantic construction and map it onto the current context to find out what the person really was talking about in that context . or {disfmarker} or a {disfmarker}" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Well that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's where the belief - net comes in . So th the idea is , let 's take this business about going to the Powder - Tower ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "So part of what you 'll get out of this will be the fact tha w if it works right , OK , that this is an agent that wants to go to this place and that 's their goal" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and there will be additional situational information ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Oh , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Uh , OK ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "th" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "part of it comes from the ontology . The tower is this kind of object ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm . Yeah , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Part of it comes from the user model ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And the idea of the belief - net is it combines the information from the dialogue which comes across in this general way ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "you know this is a {disfmarker} this is a goal seeking behavior , along with specific information from the ontology about the kinds of objects involved" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah OK , Yeah , yep yep yep yep" }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "and about the situation about \" Is it raining ? \" I don't know . Whatever it is . And so that 's the belief - net that we 've laid out ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Mm - hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "And so th the coupling to the situation comes in this model from , at th at th at the belief - net , combining evidence from the dialogue with the ontology with the situation ." }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Hmm ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "But Nancy isn't gonna talk about that ," }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Yeah , oh yeah , I see ," }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "just about the um" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "yeah yeah , really ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "First steps ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "Right . The {disfmarker} the construction grammar ." }, { "speaker": "Grad B", "content": "And she 's gonna start in a minute ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "In a minute ." }, { "speaker": "Grad D", "content": "Ah , OK ." }, { "speaker": "Professor F", "content": "OK ." }, { "speaker": "PhD G", "content": "Is it i in , then , your place , in five {disfmarker} five - A ?" }, { "speaker": "PhD A", "content": "Alright ." } ] } ]