Why Would Anyone, In Their Right Mind, Commit Kufr?
1. @Sid By willful ignorance, people tend to ignore evidence to ensure their current beliefs remain unchanged, regardless of how baseless they may be. My comparison is that similarly a kafir refuses to ponder over evidence Allah provides through His Rasool and chooses to cling to the worldview that there is no Itmam-e-Hujjat at all, that no Rasool was sent to them despite much evidence suggesting otherwise. In both cases, the person genuinely believes in their (obviously flawed) worldview, reaching their conclusion through intellectual dishonesty. So do you think “kufr” can be viewed as “willful ignorance” under this similarity? 2. Okay regarding Iblis point, let me clarify this step by step. Iblis has 100% Itmam-e-Hujjat, yes? If he has 100% Itmam-e-Hujjat, does he know that Allah is always right? Challenging a Being that is always right sounds like a sane idea? What does Iblis gain from getting cursed by Allah? 3. I didn’t say in King and traitor example that he is committing treason for no reason, reason can be as small as not liking what the King wears to straight out hating the way he rules his kingdom. The reason is irrelevant, it is HOW he goes about committing treason that you must focus on. The example illustrates the idea that a traitor is powerless against a king, still walks up to him, with no way of succeeding against this king, and declare treason knowing well that this king will give death for said treason. What is your opinion on the mental state of such a traitor? What should we do with him in your opinion? 4. Completely sane people can be stubborn, yes in normal circumstances this is the case because somewhere in their mind, they genuinely believe that they are either right or have a chance of being succeeding. What about a not so normal circumstance, a scenario where they can’t be win and they know this?
1. That’s what I thought. Didn’t want to have a discussion within a discussion 2. I didn’t want u to dissect the examples but concentrate on the principle, being fit or forgiven is irrelevant to this discussion. Principle is that we have free will so we can do wrong knowingly that it’s wrong 3. A sane person will consume poison or accept treason if he is Unaware / mistaken / suicidal OR has a reason to do so. A reason that’s larger than life (atleast to him) and because he has the free will. This is not insanity in any way shape or form in under any circumstances. 7:12 Allah asked, “What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?” He replied, “I am better than he is: You created me from fire and him from clay Does Iblees sounds sane or insane? Brother, I do feel that there’s an idea that u don’t wanna give up and hence keep coming back and insisting on insanity. May be u can let the cat out of bag now! 4. I am sure u can not find the word stubborn in literature in the meaning u described 5. That murderer would be insane/imbecile to think he can getaway only if he deny it long enough. He knows he can’t win. Quran mentions that Kuffar will do the same denial business on judgment day.
Brother first the discussion was about Itmam e hujjat Now u r insisting that Iblees is insane in challenging Allah and because he is insane he can not be punished. I don’t understand this leap from metaphorical insanity to legal insanity. U r not willing to accept the reason Quran giving u that his pride made him challenge Allah. Iblees’s pride and arrogance was bigger to him than Allah’s commandments. No matter what u or I say or anyone else say, this answer won’t change.,we have no source to confirm another alternative opinion. Any other answer wouldn’t have the validation from the Quran therefore will be mere conjecture and of no consequence in this world or hereafter. All the other examples the word stubborn etc is hypothetical and not worth discussing anymore cuz it’s not helpful to the real question So I think I did itmam e hujjat the best way I could. I accept I do not have an answer for u and take my leave May Allah satisfy ur intellectual queries and keep both of us on the right path
We human beings in additon to being given a moral compass and a brain, have also been given ego, emotions, sexual tendencies, prejudices and biases, wishes and whims. It is becasue of these factors, when they cross a certain threshold, they cloud one’s judgement to a point where one ignores their moral compass in flow with these factors. We do not need to go back to see its application, we see it today even among Muslims who, despite their belief in heaven and hell and in the day of judgement, commit the kind of acts which tantamount to ‘sarkashi’ in front of God. Same muslim commits murder, indulges in polytheism and in religious circles, sometimes biaseness and prejudice takes you to a level where you start rejecting the truth despite knowing that it is the truth. Considering the human nature, it is not a farfetched idea when someone denies the truth, despite knowing it to be the truth. Regarding Satan , please see following responses by Ghamidi Sahab : Discussion 35995 • Reply 36942 Discussion 35995 • Reply 37111
Excellent explanation. I believe this is how I also understood this when I was first reading the Qur’an. It is only after encountering Ghamidi Sahab point of view that lead me to this query that I have mentioned. However there is still one thing I want to ask. It seems Iblis is disobeying God, even though God is right in front of Him, is due to God not guiding him so he became arrogant without right. This is why Iblis does something that seems irrational, to pick a fight with the Almighty Himself! But then what is the actual crime of Iblis? I.e God can’t be punishing him for rebelling against Him since he does seems to be out of his mind at that point and according to Qur’an 7:146, 28:50, 29:49 you quoted God does not guide wrong-doers. So what kind of wrong-doer was Iblis for which God refused to guide him? This means: 1. Iblis did something wrong ——> 2. God’s guidance was forbidden to him so he became arrogant ——> 3.Arrogant enough to stand against God right in front of Him which is crazy. But the third step here seems to be happening because God refused to guide Iblis so he ended up dooming himself to God’s wrath therefore this third step is not necessarily punishable by God since Iblis’ sense of direction is lost, he is misguided, he is loss, can’t see things straight at that third step. My understanding from what you are saying is that Iblis ignored his fitrah, he ignored his ability to see God’s signs and couldn’t earn God’s guidance in the process. Therefore God allowed him to become arrogant and become rebellious enough to do the insane thing that he did. So it seems God is punishing Iblis for not heeding the signs of God, not because he is a traitor to God, right? (Because outright betrayal of God is too crazy for someone to do if one has guidance).
salam.., yesterday was eid, and yeah this was the reason for one day gap.. What you think with ease comes hardship? or only with “hardship comes ease?” (Quran 94:5) “God not guiding iblis so he became arrogant without right.” Brother, read the 7:146 again, ‘arrogance without truth or right’ is result due to denying(كَذَّبُوا) of signs & not paying heed toward signs. and read 29:49, only wrongdoers deny( يَجْحَدُ) the signs. and why a person become wrongdoer?? because, good question, here i want to quote the quran,, when more likely Yusuf pbuh said إِنَّ النَّفْسَ لَأَمَّارَةٌ بِالسُّوءِ إِلَّا مَا رَحِمَ رَبِّي ۚ إِنَّ رَبِّي غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ Indeed, the self is a persistent enjoiner of evil, except those upon which my Lord has mercy. Indeed, my Lord is Forgiving and Merciful.” -Quran 12:53 & وَأَن لَّيْسَ لِلْإِنسَـٰنِ إِلَّا مَا سَعَىٰ and that Human shall have nothing but what he has striven for -Quran 53:39 & وَلَقَدْ هَمَّتْ بِهِۦ ۖ وَهَمَّ بِهَا لَوْلَآ أَن رَّءَا بُرْهَـٰنَ رَبِّهِ ۦ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ لِنَصْرِفَ عَنْهُ ٱلسُّوٓءَ وَٱلْفَحْشَآءَ ۚ إِنَّهُۥ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا ٱلْمُخْلَصِينَ And she certainly determined [to seduce] him, and he would have inclined to her had he not seen the proof [i.e., signs and how it works] of his Lord. And thus [it was] that We should avert from him evil and immorality. Indeed, he was of Our pure servants. -Quran 12:24 ; here the word burhan is used, not sign (ayah) only noticing sign (Ayah) doesn’t avert the immorality if it come near to you, . E.g. do you see how many people know about the cancer due to alcohol, but do it help them to not to drink? No. But when they know and verify by seeing others or by their senses that how it works and it’s concequences then you would not find a single person with alcohol. Mostly these types of person are those who study it, & people who are in this business & those who are been warned by Messengers & those who are diagnosed by cancer or social concequences they know how it works . This is بُرْهَـٰنَ from God. if you don’t have proof(بُرْهَـٰنَ), then the moment wrong things will approch a person, that person fall in it. and self enjoys evil. and evil exist in every creation, Read Surah Falaq.. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ about iblis brother i gtg rn, but i think above writing would help you. if god wills tomorrow i’ll answer, rest of it.. until then try to think can we be arrogant in which we have right?? because 7:146 only stop us to arrogance without right , so in which matters we have right to be arrogant? (word used is haq means truth or right ) and the question that i asked at first.. on top.. Salam…