Why Did Allah Allow People Of The Book To Corrupt Crucial Details?
Edit : ضَلَـٰلَتِ means Astray mostly, not error..
No, ayahs relative directly to the people of that time and also relative to people of the book today. They were punished cuz they were direct addressees and not that ayahs r only and only relative to them So all Jews believe that Uzair is son of God? Current 4 angels have more errors and historical additions than barnabas. Despite these facts (read Bart Ehrman books on bible corruption) 4 bibles still taken as canonical. Barnabas is also dated to be 1500 A.D and even if you stretch, probably can go to 1000. The 4 Gospels are dated 70-100 A.D. That is the main point why Christians go for the 4 Gospels despite much corruption because that’s all they have close to Jesus (AS). Messiah is used in the quran to identify Jesus AS as the same person as Messiah of christianity. Its not a title but an identification. When barnabas wrote his gospel, Jesus AS wasnt given this title. This is not our point of discussion so leave it at this for now. Then who and what is the Messiah? same thing can be said about presence of the name Ahmad, its vague and its another person. Ahmad was never the name but his name was Muhammad SAW. The reports of his name being Ahmad were fabricated etc etc When it comes to that point, then we can agree that they are just making excuses but you are only assuming this, the reality is that it is not you and I that are talking about Prophet (PBUH) being mentioned by name, it is the Qur’an. And hence, I am keeping the Qur’an 61:6 in focus here. Why did Qur’an mention Ahmad at all? Again if Qur’an didn’t mention Ahmad, you would have a point i.e why ask for a name when it’s not needed BUT the reality is, Qur’an did give a name, Allah did give a name so the need for a name was there. Henceforth the argument will remain. No, Aaron was also a descendant of David AS just like Moses AS was. None of jews of that time said Jesus AS wasn’t a jew. He was a jew and hence from DavidAS ……ummm you do know that David (AS) came AFTER Moses (AS) and Aaron (AS)……right? Kings did not exist before Kingdom of Israel that was established AFTER Moses/Aaron. I was referring to jews in the last 1000 yrs or so who have access to the bible, they can read multiple forms of lineage of Jesus AS but still they didn’t and they don’t believe. This argument doesn’t apply to jews of that time. As explained above, David (AS) came after Moses (AS) and Aaron (AS), Aaron (AS) lineage is the Levite and David (AS) isn’t part of that. Henceforth, Jews had no reason to believe Jesus (AS) was the Messiah based on his lineage and even to this day, Jesus’ (AS) lineage is not good enough. But the truth is if Jesus (AS) is not the Messiah as you claim then why would his lineage even matter? Because Jews only kept focus of the Messiah’s lineage, not just any Israelite prophet if Jesus (AS) was only that, and not Messiah. Quran contained more important things than prophethood, Tauheed and akhira. But both these concepts is been corrupted by translations and interpretations. Such as? Because Ghamidi Sahab goes against the idea that Islam has been that corrupted and lost among the sects. Dr Hamidullah RA also had the opinion that the bible contained the name Ahmad, removed by the scholars after the time of prophet Muhammad SAW. However, there’s no objective proof (an old manuscript or something) except Quran (which is proof only for muslims) likelihood is that christian scholars removed the name and added another arabic word that later further changed by subsequent translations (bible wasn’t in its original language but a translation, what arab chrisitians had was also an arabic translation of bible and not original cuz the original bible had been lost long time ago. The 4 canonical bibles were selected from more than 100 manuscripts available at that time) Your point? The situation remains the same, Allah gave the People of the Book the name of the last prophet and and allowed it to be lost. Why do that?
Okay, the thing is what you saying works for the Muslim and I’ll agree as a Muslim. But from a general perspective, there is still issue of why Allah created the current situation (the original question) i.e the prophecies for both Jesus (AS) and Prophet (PBUH) in Bible are vague due to corruption. Why is Allah choosing to keep things vague on the surface? If the prophecies were really obvious that no one could deny them, would that have created issue that I’m not considering? Why give Jews and Christians room to justify their beliefs? Why put us in an constant state of debating which prophecies applies to who? Is Allah trying to filter out the stubborn?
scholars do not mean all the scholars in every age but the scholars who would do such things, I thought the context would would’ve made that clear but i guess it didn’t Which means even the honest scholars do not admit there is a prophecy about Prophet (PBUH). Vagueness? its not what if scenario but to show you that even if that promise is fulfilled acc to your satisfaction (Ahmad SAW written as clearly as possible) even then jew/chrisitans found other ways to stay on their religion and you would be debating about why another thing is not mentioned and if it hadn’t been vague…. It does not show anything because it is not happening. But it would be a good scenario to be in as the sound of Christians and Jews making excuses would be music to my ears. people who become athiest because exodus is not proven or there’s no evidence there was Moses AS or no evidence that Noah AS ark ever existed or his flood ever happened. What r they saying? that there’s no scientific proof I think you are overlapping generic atheistic arguments over what I am referring to. All that is needed is just supporting evidence. The ruins of Lot’s (AS) nation exists, no reason why Allah wouldn’t preserve other historical elements especially major ones such as the Exodus of Moses (AS) but He decided not to. Scientific proof isn’t needed, we don’t need anyone to demonstrate anything, just that as all major parts of history leaves major clues, it is not a big challenge to simply ask for historical evidence of Biblical accounts. But Allah choose not to. Why so, is an important question. thats your argument too that Allah made all this disappear with time rather than preserving it. This is not just an argument, it is a fact. Moses’ (AS) incident led to drowning of large army of Pharoah, Egyptians being careful record-keepers, did not mention this at all in their history nor the plagues that Allah sent upon an entire nation. It shows that Allah decided some things to be die out from history. The current situation is obviously developed by Allah, you cannot deny this. the above scenario makes it religion vs science argument (all evidence of greek, romans were archeological discoveries and archeology is part of science) But you mentioned the religion vs science argument BEFORE I mentioned the Greek, Romans and Egyptians. I tried to show you that what u r saying isn’t new at all. In every time and generation there were scientific facts (relevant to the time ) that contradicted quran and it will remain so till end of time. Human understanding grows slowly and the quran proves its divine origin repeatedly in every age. What does that for me, a Muslim, that already knows that Qur’an is infallible? How does that fix the issue of vagueness for Non-Muslims or explain its existence which has been the entire point of this thread? I mentioned examples from our past showing how quran was seemed fallible but it proven correct with time. The vagueness you r talking about will be proven, insha Allah, with continued development in human understanding. Do you have any idea how many people would have died not accepting Islam by the time this vagueness dies out? I never said that quran is book of science, not at all. It does, however, points towards the universe around us and encourage us to find proofs of a divine being. You didn’t say it but you are implying for any non-Muslims that it is, that it can looked at as purely scientific book and it will demonstrate knowledge beyond its time in every corner but it does not do that, by default it speaks to a people at a certain time with knowledge they can recognize and verify so the message can fit the nation properly, sometime it shows something that can be amazing for a Muslim but a lot of time non-Muslims will find it a book that it was a product of its time (as it should be because it was for a specific audience). It’s not scientifically amazing all the time, that’s why non-Muslims will never find it special. It needs to be presented in the same way as Prophet (PBUH) presented to his people and he did it without the science stuff. human doings to Himself. 4:157 is similar I don’t think 4:157 explicitly says that though. I am purposefully not discussing the point u mentioned about Ghamidi sahab because it will take discussion somewhere else, just FYI Funny because you derailed the discussion since your second post in this thread. that doesn’t mean one vomit out facts every chance he gets. I feel like you did do that. I talked about the vagueness in history and you threw scientific facts of the Qur’an. If someone does’t think quran is special then its the fault of the presenter rather than the presented I pity the presenter for the burden you have placed upon him. I do not know your background, but it does seem you r passionate about proving islam to people of the book. It is truly a marvelous goal but it is also very difficult. Debates seldom changes people, it is the slow reflection inside the heart that sows the seed of change in the heart. Brother……all I came to ask was an explanation for the vagueness. You seems to speculating my motives but not considering what I have been asking for the past 20 posts. I don’t really care what People of the Book do. there are many things that are vague in you mind There is nothing vague in my mind, the vagueness that I refer to is such a reality that I am baffled that I have argue to about it. may be its a good idea to step back and rethink your line of argument and how u approach islam as truth and how do you present it to people of the book. I have seen enough People of the Book being backed in a corner and forced to offer excuses for their fragile beliefs that I am really not interested to see anymore. However there are some that are in a fortress, with arguments that seems to be blessed by Allah, and I wonder why He supports them. Why allow the vagueness? Lastly, i would like to suggest to end this thread and u can start a new one and post 1 thing that vague. (I can continue but I don’t think i am helping u resolve anything) Hopefully some one more learned can answer in a much better way than I can No thanks. Consider this thread ended and I will not be responding anymore. My goal was never to resolve the vagueness but to understand its existence and it’s part in Allah’s plan (which you did a good job in derailing us from). I actually added two vague things in original question and hoped that a learned person would easily tackle the issue. Much to my surprise, the guy who argued with me on Iblees being insane showed up, I knew it wasn’t going to end well.