Why Did Allah Allow People Of The Book To Corrupt Crucial Details?
I did mention what I mean by crucial details in the original question: Connection of Ibrahim (AS) with Holy Kaaba and name of the Prophet (PBUH) which was supposed to “Ahmad.” Ghamidi Sahab states these details were changed/corrupted over time, leading to their removal from the Bible. These are crucial details because Jews and Christians usually consider this a barrier to accepting Islam since they don’t think Ismail (AS) and his children has any share in prophethood nor find any pointed prophecies convincing in the Bible that can refer to Prophet (PBUH) since he is not mentioned by name (particularly “Ahmad” because Qur’an highlights this name instead of “Muhammad” [Qur’an 61:6]) anywhere. Hence my question, why did Allah allow these types of changes/corruption in the Bible to occur? Would have been better to have preserved these details, yes?
The ayahs r definitely talking about jewsand Christians of all times. All jews and Christians can identify Muhammad SAW. Most conversion to Islam is happening for the past few hundred yrs among people of the book. There’s ample evidence for any Jew or Christian to be convinced about Quran and Muhammad SAW. They rejected gospel of Baranabs, they would’ve rejected the name of Muhammad SAW as well either calling it an addition by Muslims when they occupied Christian lands or something else. There r prophecies in the Bible today about Muhammad SAW still in the Bible and yet they r ignored Regarding Ismael AS lineage, Jesus AS lineage is defined in the Bible, did Jews believed him? This is your assumption that Christian aren’t believing because they can’t find Muhammad SAW name or Ismael AS lineage is not established neither it is necessary for itmam e hujjat at all Even, for the sake of argument, if we assume that the name was actually removed, isn’t it the case for Quran too? There a so many sects that change the translation acc to their beliefs and people read it and have false beliefs even shirk. Would u say that Allah shouldn’t allow people to translate Quran wrong ? Not every Muslim have the means or time to learn arabic so how do they get to the truth? By reading and contemplating the whole Quran Just like it is upto muslims to seek out the truth same is true for Jews and Christians
They do know that. But they believe that Ismail (AS) has no share with prophethood. Only Ishaq (AS) and his children will have prophets. Since the Bible does not say that promise of Allah extends to Ismail (AS).
brother your question is in itself WHAT IF scenario Is it though? It’s more of a WHY question. The possible benefits of Allah not choosing to do something is highlighted by me but that is not the main focus, it is to know the wisdom behind why Allah eliminated clarity in the scripture. Is it a test for us, is it a punishment for People of the Book? It is because the name would be too obvious of a sign and hence nullify the test? etc we do not know of any disciples of Barnabas hence it is more likely he wrote his gospel. Point is not who wrote what, point is that christians have had a much authentic document but they chose to prefer others over it It’s not considered authentic by many. I personally accept Barnabas but I don’t think even Ghamidi Sahab accept it, he prefers the ones that Christians accept. the lineage arguments is a very weak one and i don’t even think any christian would care about it (I accept that this is my assumption only, share if you know otherwise) It is not very important for Christian because they literally pulled a demigod out of their scripture. But Jews are really, I repeat, really aggressive about entertaining the idea of a prophet outside Israel, they need proof to accept Ishmaelite prophet and to give up the Torah which is very sacred to them. Muslims have so many deviant sects even when Quran is preserved. Allah did not stop people from corrupting His last book. Because He gave people free will to do as they like and also Nafs -e-Lawama / fitrah / consciousness to see and seek the truth I still don’t think it’s the same scenario as what I’m referring to. You need to put yourself in People of the Book’s shoes, Allah gives a name to you and then allows it to be lost before the moment you could use it to identify the prophet. I think it ruins the purpose of prophecy so they assume the prophecy never existed to begin with, at least that’s how Jews and Christians see it when we present our corrupt Bible arguments. I think Allah letting us find the truth through fitrah works but considering He has included prophecy of prophets in the equation, it becomes an issue because some Jews and Christians won’t leave their religion until they get the “Okay” signal from Allah. Only technique we have is to debunk the authenticity of their scripture and build their mind from scratch with Qur’anic framework. Comparing this to the deviant sects doesn’t work since you can literally find the clean translation of Qur’an online. So Allah can question a Muslim for following the wrong idea but the average Jew and Christian? They are hopelessly buried under a layer of translations/meaning and so and even if they go across the layer, they will find missing information. just like mindful muslims can leave their deviant practices so could christians too. There are bible translation that are considered “too accurate” hence discouraged, (bible translation by James Moffatt). The majority (53%) of reverts to islam are from Christian faith! Issue is that are people converting to Islam for the right reason? Jews and Christians see us “twisting” their scriptures to fit prophecy for Prophet (PBUH) and they would consider us to be doing something evil rather than good as they see us “deceiving” people with those prophecies. So huge convert rate doesn’t help, reason behind conversion is more important in my opinion. Allah mentioned the name Ahmad and its still there. rather than asking them why don’t u read Isiah 42, its only 11 ayahs. I’ll quote the last ayah 42:11 Let the desert and its cities shout out, the towns where the nomads of Kedar live! Let the residents of Sela shout joyfully; let them shout loudly from the mountain- tops I read this like an hour ago when I was going through all the prophecies that a Muslim listed. Christians had their own responses for all of them (Same that Isaiah 42 is about Israel as that is the theme of entire Isaiah) . And the cycle continues. I am convinced even without the prophecy but it is obvious that Christians find this a desperate attempt by us to justify Islam and hence they aren’t so much denying the truth but rather feel offended at this act of ours. It seems like Allah has given a lot of room for them to maneuver. But why I ask? In conclusion, Allah mentioned the name Ahmad SAW very clearly. So you are changing your stance then? You went from Allah not needing to mention Ahmad to Allah is now stating the name very clearly. However the problem is that, Ahmad was not mentioned in the Torah, Qur’an says in 61:6, that it was mentioned by Jesus (AS), it needs to come from Gospels, not Old Testament though.
Brother I just think whoever is reverting to Islam is doing that for the right reasons. I don’t have any authority to judge their faith or anyway to find out if they r sincere or not The deviant sect example fits the scenario very good. Just like muslim needs a clean translation of Quran and a clean mind, Christians need the same things! clean Bible translation and clean mind And ˹remember˺ when Jesus, son of Mary, said, “O children of Israel! I am truly Allah’s messenger to you, confirming the Torah which came before me, and giving good news of a messenger after me whose name will be Aḥmad .”1 Yet when the Prophet came to them with clear proofs, they said, “This is pure magic.” 61:6 It appears Jesus AS is referring to torah No I am not changing my stance First I tried explaining that’s it’s not a crucial point at all.secondly I tried to show that name was actually mentioned. Off course Christian and jews would’ve responses. What’s wrong with that? Each Christian Jew or muslim look at the responses in their respective quests and make a decision. You have an opinion about Karbala based on few points, you don’t think there can be very good logical response to that? Most certainly but u made up ur opinion after thought process. Same exact things happens to Christians and Jews when they read/hear about Muhammad SAW and Quran.
﷽ إِنَّهُۥ لَقُرْءَانٌ كَرِيمٌ ‎﴿٧٧﴾‏ فِى كِتَٰبٍ مَّكْنُونٍ ‎﴿٧٨﴾‏ لَّا يَمَسُّهُۥٓ إِلَّا ٱلْمُطَهَّرُونَ ‎﴿٧٩﴾‏ تَنزِيلٌ مِّن رَّبِّ ٱلْعَٰلَمِينَ ‎﴿٨٠﴾‏ Indeed, it is a noble Qur’an (77) In a Book well-protected; (78) None touch it except the purified. (79) a revelation from the Lord of the worlds. (80) -Quran ; Surah waqiah people of book are pure people.. & they are said to believe and if they don’t then let them know. فَإِن زَلَلْتُم مِّنۢ بَعْدِ مَا جَآءَتْكُمُ ٱلْبَيِّنَٰتُ فَٱعْلَمُوٓا۟ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ ‎﴿٢٠٩﴾‏ هَلْ يَنظُرُونَ إِلَّآ أَن يَأْتِيَهُمُ ٱللَّهُ فِى ظُلَلٍ مِّنَ ٱلْغَمَامِ وَٱلْمَلَٰٓئِكَةُ وَقُضِىَ ٱلْأَمْرُ ۚ وَإِلَى ٱللَّهِ تُرْجَعُ ٱلْأُمُورُ ‎﴿٢١٠﴾‏ But if you deviate after clear proofs have come to you, then know that God is Exalted in Might and Wise. (209) Do they await but that God should come to them in covers of clouds and the angels [as well] and the matter is [then] decided? And to God matters are returned. (210) Quran 2:209-210 And none of unpurified can have book.. and who cannot be purified?? إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ يَكْتُمُونَ مَآ أَنزَلَ ٱللَّهُ مِنَ ٱلْكِتَـٰبِ وَيَشْتَرُونَ بِهِۦ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًا ۙ أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ مَا يَأْكُلُونَ فِى بُطُونِهِمْ إِلَّا ٱلنَّارَ وَلَا يُكَلِّمُهُمُ ٱللَّهُ يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَـٰمَةِ وَلَا يُزَكِّيهِمْ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ Indeed, they who conceal what God has sent down of the Book and exchange it for a small price – those consume not into their bellies except the Fire. And God will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. And they will have a painful punishment. -Quran 2:174 A Question, then how can you think that any Particular community that made a set of rules and convention without the basis of truth & changed the words of book can be called as ‘People of Book’???? Salam..
Alright brother, if you r satisfied that Allah left things vague then keep looking, i do not think you will find anything enriching for your faith. Please share if you do It is not that I am satisfied on the idea that Allah left things vague, I think it is a reality that things are left vague. I am satisfied by the explanation the other brother has offered on why He left things vague . And there are other things that I can point out that are vague (not just the two I listed in this thread, I only limited to two so getting any answer would be easy since the answer to these two would be the answer to everything on the list) so the rabbit hole is a lot deeper than you think. I am surprise that you believe that bible is corrupted and also believe that they (jewish and christian scholars) aren’t twisting the words? They have a history of corrupting their own scriptures, every faction of both jewish and christians have revised their books so many times. There own research has proven that. I think the Jews and Christians that corrupted their scriptures are not the ones defending the corrupted versions. The one we are dealing with I believe are ignorant and are doing the best they can what with they want, which is a poorly-structured holy book that they are compelled to defend because their faith depends on it. A clear-cut prophecy could free them from this accursed fate but they are left to wander in the darkness it seems. I was wondering why would Allah do that? But christians and jews can not learn the history of scripture alterations done over centuries and come to conclude that Ahmad must be there and it must be altered? By the time they reach that level of thinking, they will be disowning their religion. That’s the issue, asking someone to disown their religion is a pretty big requirement. This is why Allah gives prophecy of future prophets so people may put their guard down and listen to the new prophet but now it seems they need to do this leap and jump through hoops (that involves discarding their entire religion) to understand how Islam is right religion. Sometime luck is on our side and some of them are not that much indoctrinated by their religion that they embrace Islam. But thing is that I don’t think anyone that is well indoctrinated by Christianity and Judaism will look at their scriptures, in the context of their text and conclude that Ahmad is there. Because at the very least, they should be claiming that there is an upcoming prophet just like how Jews admit that they will be a future Messiah. But since no claim is made, I think they honestly don’t believe that there is another prophet. That they are not hiding the truth, I think they are genuine and innocent in this regard and they are like that because Allah left them there I assume, at least that is my conclusion from all my pondering. His name was Muhammad SAW, Allah called him directly by this name in the Quran 3:144, 33:40, 47:2, 48:29 In Al-Bayan, in footnotes on verse 61:6. Ghamidi Sahab states that Ahmad is the name given to Prophet (PBUH) and that Muhammad was his title. So now what? All religious scriptures are devoid of any name given by any prophet for the next prophet in line. They always gave descriptions of qualities and attributes and reason is simple, names can be stolen (how many Mehdis we have in our history!) But doesn’t verse 61:6 say that Ahmad is a name? lastly, its not upto us to stop anything. They have the right to prove islam wrong. Our job is to make our message as clear as possible and that is it. From our perspective, you are right. Issue is that from general perspective it doesn’t add up. Arguing Christian see Islam as just another religion and Jews see both Christianity and Islam as false religion because it is normal for them for God to send false prophets to test their faith. There is definitely a group of them that will not let their guard down until their own scriptures will permit it and they are so indoctrinated by the idea that their scriptures are flawless that you may grow white hair before they will start looking at Ahmad the way we do. It seems to me that we are locked in a constant state of debating, which is a fact because you can see this constant state of debating happening right now, the question is why would Allah allow such a state? What is His plan? you might find works of Bart Ehrman He has been criticized a lot by Christians scholars and Christians do use these scholars as a shield but I don’t think you need Bart Ehrman to see that Bible is not the Word of God. But Christians and Jews will drop their standards so low and still accept it because the idea of God authoring His own book is foreign to them, they are used to man-authored books inspired by God. It is crazy to get them to understand our standard but then again what can you expect from people who are okay with god becoming a man and being crucified? They are ignorant but innocent though because they have no reason to accept our standards. its innocent to think that one can open the quran and convince someone what is the meaning of Khatim, Noor or similar beliefs. You will be bombarded with evidence from every corner of the world, the root word analysis, sayings of so and so, dreams and Ilhams and what not I need not to convince them, I just know that since correct version of Qur’an is available, people can find their way through or Allah may call them to account. The thing e.g every Muslims knows about Tawheed so they can be questioned about this concept. Problem with Jews and Christians is that they won’t even admit there is room for a new prophet, so you can’t question them. Khatim, Noor and similar beliefs are perversion of existing concepts, concepts that at least Muslims know exist from text and will admit so room for accountability exist, what will do you with Jews and Christians that won’t even admit there is a new prophet, on what account are we going to question them about? That they don’t accept Prophet (PBUH)? They will just say that we didn’t even thought there was gonna be another prophet because our scripture hardly made it so. If there was room for a new prophet, I believe Jews and Christians would be waiting for him today but would reject Prophet (PBUH) anyway and on that Allah would take account and that would work but that is not the scenario, scenario is that things are just vague and Jews/Christians wander on blindly. People will always twist and argue till death to stand on their beliefs. Only the courageous few will come forward and show the strength to say the right thing. All this struggle is for those few people we may find in our path of life Which seems to give the idea that Allah intends to bring out a few Muslims converts and rest are condemned to a lost path? Because people aren’t going to stop twisting and arguing on the account of a religion they believe to be false according to their scripture and since the corrupted scripture bars the doors to “false prophets”, they won’t accept the message of questioning their own scripture. They are stuck I think.