l Appeals Nos 1239 to 1241 of 1966
Appeals by special leave from the Award dated October 1 1965 of the Industrial Tribunal Maharashtra Bombay in Reference IT Nos 84 112 and 121 of 1959
K T Sule M G Phadnis and Vineet Kumar for the appel lants in all the appeals
G B Pai P N Tiwari and P K Rele for the respondents in all the appeals
3 7 5 P Jaganmohan Reddy J
These three Appeals are by the P Jaganmohan ReddyJ
These three appeals are by the Workmen of the three Respondent Companies respectively Civil Appeal No 1239 of 1966 is against Greaves Cotton  Co Ltd Civil Appeal No 1240 of 1966 is against Greaves Cotton  Crompton Parkinson Pvt Ltd later amalgamated in 1966 and a new Company formed as Crompton Greaves Ltd and Civil Appeal No 1241 of 1966 is against Kenyon Greaves Pvt Ltd On the 29th April 1958 a charter of demands was presented by the Workmen through their Trade Union Greaves Cotton and Allied Companies Employees Union to the Respondents in the above three Appeals and to Russian  Hornby India Pvt
Ltd These demands were in respect of the wage scale dearness allowance leave gratuity etc
After the conciliation proceedings under sub section 4 of Section 12 of the hereinafter called the Act 
had failed the disputes in respect of the aforesaid matters were ultimately referred by the Maharashtra Government to Shri P D Sawarkar for adjudication under Section 10 1 d read with 12 5  of the Act
In respect of demands made against Greaves Cotton  Co Ltd the reference was made on 8 4 59 and 24 12 59 against Greaves Cotton  Crompton Parkinson Pvt Ltd on 30 5 59 and 24 12 59 and that against Kenyon Greaves Pvt Ltd on 8 6 59 and 9 1 60 respectively
We are here not concerned with the other references
By an Award dated 3rd June 15th and 16th June 1960 the Sawarkar Tribunal revised the wage scales and dearness allowance of all workmen employed by those Companies
Ruston  Hornby India Pvt Ltd appealed against the Awards to this Court which by a common Judgment dated 14th November 1963 held that the wage scale and dearness allowance fixed by the Industrial Tribunal for the clerical and subordinate staff did not require any interference and to that extent dismissed the Appeal
It however set aside the wage scale and dearness allowance fixed for factory workmen and remanded the matter to the Tribunal for fresh fixation of wage scale and dearness allowance with these observations  We allow the Appeal with respect to the factory workmen and send the case back to the Tribunal for fixing the wage structure including basic wages and dearness allowance and for granting adjustments in the light of the observations by us
The new Award pur suant to this Award will come into force from the same date namely April 1 1959
When the references were taken up by the Tribunal on remand the parties agreed that in view of the decision of this Court certain 3 76 references stood finally disposed of namely references dated 24th December 1959 by the Workmen in Greaves Cotton  Co Ltd and in Greaves Cotton  Crompton Parkinson Pvt Ltd and that dated 9th January 1960 by the workmen of Kenyon Greaves Pvt
Ltd The other three which were also held to be finally disposed of were against the Workmen of Ruston  Hornby India Pvt Ltd with which we are not concerned in this Appeal
The parties however agreed that only three references dated 8th April 1959 30th May 1959 and 8th June 1959 by workmen against Greaves Cotton  Co Ltd Greaves Cotton  Crompton Parkinson Pvt Ltd and Kenyon Greaves Pvt Ltd survive
During the proceedings before the Tribunal two questions were raised 1 Whether the Supreme Court remanded the matter for consideration of the dispute in respect of certain categories of employees including those of the Supervisors and 2 Whether it was open to the Respondents to claim fixation of service conditions on the basis of individual units
On behalf of the employees it was contended that the dispute regarding the Foremen or Supervisors who were included in the term subordinate staff was concluded by the Judgment of the Supreme Court inasmuch as it had dismissed the Appeal in respect of Clerical and subordinate staff
The employers on the other hand contended that the reference was in respect of the six categories of Workmen specified in the Supreme Court Judgment which included Supervisors
Shri Athalye who was the then Judge of the Industrial Court after hearing the parties made an order on 14th July 1964 inter alia holding  1 That the Companies were precluded from agitating that wage scales in the different factories should be fixed on the basis of individual units and 2 that the Sawarkar Award was set aside by this Court in respect of all workmen except those who could be properly classified as office staff
After this order the Respondents were asked to file statements regarding comparative wage scales of Supervisors in their concerns as well as in other concerns
These statements were filed without prejudice to their contention that the Tribunal had no jurisdiction to fix wage scale in respect of Supervisory staff
The documents filed on behalf of the third Respondent namely Kenyon Greaves Pvt Ltd showed that it did not employ any staff in the Supervisory grade
Thereafter the references were heard by Shri Paralkar who had succeeded Shri Athalye as Judge 377 Industrial Tribunal
It was contended before him that the Foreman Supervisors were not workmen within the definition given in the Act and that no wage scales in respect of the Supervisors in the Respondent Companies should be fixed
The stand taken by the Appellant was that it was not open to the Respondent Companies to raise the question whether the Supervisors were Workmen within the meaning of the Act as it did not arise on the remand orders made by this Court
In the alternative it was contended that many Supervisory work men concerned in the dispute were drawing a total salary below Rs 500 and that even if everyone of them was promoted from the category of supervisors or for the sake of argument it was held that Foremen and Supervisory staff were not workmen within the meaning of the Act the Workmen had a right to raise a dispute regarding wage scale and dearness allowance of the Supervisory staff because they have a communist of interest with them
The Tribunal therefore had jurisdiction to entertain the depute in respect of wage scales and dearness allowance of the Supervisory staff
The Appellant also contended on behalf of the Workmen that the only question that was pending before the Tribunal was to fix wages for factory workmen and therefore the Tribunal had no jurisdiction to decide at that stage as to which category the workmen belonged
The Tribunal by its Award of the 1st October 1965 held after hearing the parties that Supervisors were not workmen within the meaning of the Act and that the claim for revision of wage scale and dearness allowance payable to them was in that view rejected
Against this Award the above Appeals were filed by Special Leave granted by this Court confined only to the point whether the decision contained in paragraph 15 and 16 of the Award was correct
At the outset it was conceded by the parties that Civil Appeal No 1241 of 1966 by the Workmen against the Kenyon Greaves Pvt Ltd did not survive because there are no persons working in the Supervisory capacities and drawing less than Rs 500being the two conditions requisite under Section 2 s iv of the Act to be a Workman the non fulfilment of which would deprive the Tribunal of its jurisdiction to determine the dispute and therefore the appeal has to be dismissed
Even in respect of the other two appeals the learned Advocate for the Respondent submits that there are no workman working in the Supervisory capacities and drawing less than Rs 500 in the 3 78 other two Undertakings in respect of which the Appeals have been filed and consequently they should also be dismissed
We shall however deal with this submission later on
Before us five contentions have been urged by the learned Advocate for the Appellant First whether the case of Supervisors was at all remanded to the Tribunal for adjudication by the Supreme Court Secondly whether it was open to the Respondents to agitate when the matter was remanded to the Tribunal for the first time to challenge the jurisdiction of the Tribunal to fix wage scale and dearness allowance of the Supervisors Thirdly whether Supervisors getting less than Rs 500 per month on the crucial date namely the date of reference can raise a dispute regarding wages which take them beyond Rs 500  Fourthly whether workmen can raise a dispute about non workmen as regards terms of employment of non workmen and in what circumstances
Fifthly whether the Tribunal on remand is right in holding that in December 1964 none of the Supervisors were drawing less than Rs 500 
With respect to the first two contentions the Appellant s learned Advocate submits that in the Special Leave Petition against the Award passed by Mr Sawarkar neither the wage scales of Supervisors nor any question about the jurisdiction of the Tribunal was raised nor was such a contention urged before this Court in the Appeals which were partly allowed and remanded by this Court
Even before the Industrial Tribunal after the remand when the Respondent Companies in compliance with its orders dated 15 1 54 submitted statements giving the names of workmen including Supervisors Foremen which were covered by the reference and gave their details as called for by the said Tribunal the comments of the Appellants which were submitted on 27 2 64 were that the category of Supervisors was not covered by the order of remand and the wage scale and dearness allowance for that category have been confirmed by this Court by its judgment dated the 14th November 63
This was controverted by the Respondents and by further supplementary written statement dated 16 3 64 each of the Respondent Companies it is alleged tried to cover up and reagents the matter which had already been settled by this Court regarding uniform service conditions for the entire Greaves Cotton group of Companies on the basis that Greaves Cotton  Co was the principal Company
379 Even in these supplementary written statements it is alleged no question was taken up by the Respondent Companies that the Foremen were not workmen within the meaning of the Act
The Appellant had on 24 3 64 submitted an application to the Industrial Tribunal stating that the supplementary written statements should not be taken on record since the issue in the said supplementary statements regarding uniformity in the wage scale and dearness allowance was decided by this Court
It also urged that the issue regarding Drivers Cleaners and apprentices and Supervisors were categories remanded by the Supreme Court for fixing their wage scale should be decided as a preliminary issue
As we have already stated the Tribunal gave its decision on the two issues which were raised before it after this Court had remanded the matter
On the other hand it is contended by the Respondents that it is not open to the Appellants to raise this question because the Special Leave having been confined only to the point whether the decision contained in paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Award is correct it is open to it to urge that the Supervisors were not workmen
It was pointed out that from Paragraph 15 and 16 of the Award it is evident that the demand for the revision of the wage scale and dearness allowance of the Supervisors even for the lowest grade on the lowest scale made them non workmen as their emoluments exceed Rs 500  which decision also clearly indicates that the question of fixation of the Supervisors wage scale and dearness allowance was remanded to the Tribunal
It is further stated that this Court had in its Judgment dated 14th November 1963 allowed the Appeal with respect to the factory workers  and sent the case back top the Tribunal for fixing the wage structure for the factory workmen  that it is implicit in the order of remand that the Tribunal would have jurisdiction to determine whether any employee of the factory was or was not a workman within the meaning of the Act that if the Appellant s contention is accepted it would virtually mean that this Court by its Judgment had conferred a jurisdiction on the Tribunal to deal with the case of non workmen which the Tribunal under the Act did not possess and that the question whether there is community of interest between other workmen of the Respondent and Supervisors who may be non workmen is a mixed question of fact and law which has not been raised before the Tribunal and ought not be allowed to be raised for the first time before this Court
It is also contended that the question whether some of the workmen could raise a dispute regarding the grades of the Supervisors as there is a community of interest was not the subject matter of the decision in para 15 and 16 of the Award and that since the wages including dearness allowance of all supervisors at the date of the Award were in excess of 380 Rs 500 the question of considering the claims of the Supervisors who were non workmen at the instance of supervisors workmen does not arise
It is not in our view necessary to go into these several contentions except to examine the scope of the Judgment of this Court in Civil Appeals Nos 272 280 of 1962 dated 14 11 61 by which the remand was made to the Tribunal
The order is in the following terms  We therefore dismiss the Appeal so far as retrospective effect and adjustments as also fixation of wages and dearness allowance with respect to clerical and subordinate staff are concerned
We allow the appeal with respect to factory workmen and send the cases back to Tribunal for fixing the wage structure including basic wage and dearness allowance and for granting adjustments in the light of the observations made by us 
The Award of the Tribunal which this Court was considering in the said appeals dealt with the clerical and subordinate staff separately from the factory workmen
It is in respect of the portion of the Award relating to Clerks and subordinate staff that the appeal was dismissed and that dealing with the factory workmen was remanded
Factory workmen had been divided into six categories and the employees of the Respondents had been directed to be fixed with separate wages for each category
These six categories were i Unskilled
ii Semi skilled I iii Semi skilled II
iv Skilled I v Skilled II and vi Skilled III
Apart from this the Sawarkar Tribunal in para 58 said in those references it was concerned with the factory work men of only the three Respondent Companies that different scales of wages prevail for different classes of workmen but which categories should be placed in which class is not prescribed
It referred to the wage scale of different classes of workmen prescribed by Shri Divatia in which apart from the above six categories three categories of Supervisors grade I II  III were also given
The Tribunal however while retaining these six categories introduced a seventh category of higher unskilled which as this Court observed was not justified because there cannot be degrees of want of skill among unskilled class
Apart from this the main attack was on the wages fixed for these six categories on the ground that 381 the Tribunal completely overlooked the wages prevalent for these categories in concerns which it had considered comparable
Court observed but the way in which the Tribunal has dealt with the matter shows that it paid scant regard to the exemplars
filed before it and did not care to make the comparison for factory
workmen in the same way in which it had made comparison for clerical and subordinate staff
In this circumstances wagescales fixed for factory workmen must be set aside and the matter remanded to the Tribunal to fix wage scales for factory workmen dividing them into six categories as at present and then fixing wage after taking into account wages prevalent in comparable concerns
The parties will be at liberty to lead further  evidence in this connection
It is clear from this judgment that the subordinates and factory workmen were treated separately and we cannot accept the contention of the learned Advocate for he Appellant that in dismissing the appeal this Court had rejected the contentions of the Respondents relating to the Supervisors who according to it were included in the category of subordinate staff
Earlier the Sawarkar Award had after noticing that there are 3 sub divisions in the category of Supervisors laid down the scales which were higher having regard to its desire to prescribe the same scales for the three sub divisions as those for skilled sub division 1
It is also apparent from the statements  filed that the Foremen or Supervisors were divided into 3 categories according to their pay scales
The pay of the Grade I was Rs 360 20 500 of Grade Rs 300 15 360 and of Grade III Rs
250 10 300
The Appellants themselves referred to these Supervisors as Foreman
Work men under Section 2 s iv of the Act means any person including an apprentice employed in any industry to do any skilled or unskilled manual supervisory or technical work but does not include any such person who being employed in a supervisory capacity draws wages exceeding Rs 500 per mensem or exercise either by the nature of the duties attached to the office or by reasons of the powers vested in him functions mainly of a managerial nature
This Court in remanding the case of the factory workmen had under contemplation all those workmen who on the date of the reference were employed in a Supervisory capacity and drawing less than Rs 500 as these were included in six categories of workmen as classified by the Tribunal
We do not think there is anything in the remand order to warrant the submission that the case of Supervisors was included among the category of subordinate staff or that it was not remanded
After the remand the Tribunal was justified in holding that this Court had set aside the Award of the previous Tribunal in respect of all those workers who could not be properly classified as office staff in which the Foremen or Supervisors could not be Am L 1340 Sup CI71 382 included
It is also not the case of the Appellants that workers who were working in a Supervisory capacity were classified as office staff
In our view it was open to both the parties to raise all the contentions that were open to them because on remand the wage structure of the factory workers including basic wage and their dearness allowance had to be considered afresh
This conclusion is supported by the fact that parties were given liberty to adduce further evidence in respect thereto
A reference to para 15 and 16 of the Award to which special leave is confined makes it clear that both parties were proceeding on the basis that the Tribunal has jurisdiction to deal with those supervisors who under the Act are workmen
The only controversy was whether the Tribunal could fix a wage scale for them which will ultimately give them a total wage together with basic pay and dearness allowance of over Rs 500 pm or fix scale which has an initial starting salary with dearness allowance in excess of Rs 500 pm which makes them non workmen and thus deprive it of jurisdiction to deal with the dispute
It may be of interest to notice the arguments addressed before the Tribunal on behalf of the parties
The contention by the Companies was that though the Supervisors may be in the category of workmen at the time of the reference the Tribunal would have no jurisdiction to revise their wages and grant to them at any stage a total emoluments exceeding Rs 500as that would convert them into non workmen
On the other band on behalf of the employees the submission was that the Companies had not raised this question in appeal before the Supreme Court and in any case it was not open to them to contend that the Tribunal had no jurisdiction to revise the wage scales of this class as Shri Athalye in  his order of 14 7 64 had on a consideration of the Judgment of this Court held that the question of revision of the wages and dearness allowance of the Supervisors class was to be considered by that Tribunal
In our view therefore the dispute relating to the Supervisors wage structure and dearness allowance could certainly on the plea of both employers and employees be determined by the Tribunal
The only question that could be raised and has been raised was whether the Tribunal has jurisdiction to fix wage scales to go beyond Rs 500 and whether as a matter of fact there were any workmen at the time of the dispute who were working in a supervisory capacity drawing a wage not exceeding Rs 500 
The Tribunal noted that Shri Phadke for the Companies did not urge that the persons for whom revision was sought are engaged in managerial functions or at the time the dispute arose were all non workmen so is to disentitle them to raise the dispute and to exclude the jurisdiction of the Tribunal altogether
If it were so the Tribunal observed the question must be deemed to have been impliedly concluded by the decision of the Supreme Court and the interpretation put 383 there were persons employed in a Supervisory capacity drawing a wage not exceeding Rs 500 and who as workmen within the amended definition of that expression were interested in demanding scales which take them beyond Rs 500 
But it was contended by the Companies that even if the employees are entitled to raise the demand the Tribunal would have no jurisdiction to grant it in a manner so as to convert them into non workmen
On these contentions the Tribunal held that although the Supervisors drawing a wage not exceeding Rs 500 may be entitled to raise the demand and ask for a scale which would take them beyond Rs 500 they would not be justified in making a claim for a scale which at the very commencement would provide them with a wage in excess of Rs 500 
A claim for Rs 300as basic wage for the last grade of Supervisors together with a claim for dearness allowance would come to an amount in excess of Rs 500 and thus convert the Supervisors into non workmen even at the very commencement
Such a claim the Tribunal thought would obviously not be tenable because although it may be permissible on the grounds of social justice to revise the wage scale which may be justified by the circumstances in the case it will not be permissible for the Tirbunal to fix it so as to convert a workman into a non workman
This leads us to the consideration of the third and the fourth point urged before us namely whether the Supervisors getting less than Rs 500 per month on the crucial date which is the date of reference can raise the dispute for wages taking them beyond Rs 500 and whether workmen can raise a dispute about non workmen
In our view the Tribunal has jurisdiction to consider revision of wage scale dearness allowance and other emoluments so long as there is a category of workmen who are employed in a supervisory capacity and drawing less than Rs 500 
Even where the workman in a supervisory capacity ask for a pay structure which takes them beyoned Rs 500 that by itself does not preclude its jurisdiction to determine what is the proper wage structure for that class or category of workmen
The view of the Tribunal was that though it is possible for Supervisors who are workmen on the date of the reference to demand a wage scale beyond Rs 500 they would not be justified in making a claim for a scale which at the very commencement would give them a wage in excess of Rs 500 so as to take them out of the category of workmen and make them non workmen
The learned Advocate for the Appellant submits that merely because a claim is made by the Supervisors for an initial wage in excess of Rs 500it does not imply that it will be granted or merely for that reason deprive the Tribunal of its jurisdiction to pass an Award in respect of a wage which it considers to be fair and proper
There 384 is no gain saying the fact that once a Tribunal is vested with the jurisdiction to entertain the dispute which is validly 
referred it does not cease to continue that jurisdiction merely because the claim made goes beyond the wage which takes workmen out of that category and make them non workmen
What has to be seen is whether on the date of the reference there was any dispute in respect of the workmen which could be referred under the Act to the Tribunal
In any case can workmen raise a dispute about non workmen even if many or all of them have since the reference become non working  In All India Reserve Bank of India Employees Association vs Reserve Bank of India1 this Court had occasion to consider these aspects
In that case Class 11 and Class III staff of the Reserve Bank of India through their Association and Class IV staff through their Union raised an industrial dispute which was referred by the Central Govt
to the Tribunal
One of the items referred concerned scales of pay allowances and sundry matters connected with the conditions of service of the three classes the most important ones being the demand of Class 11 staff claiming a scale commencing with Rs 500 
The Tribunal held that the Class II staff worked in a Supervisory capacity and this demand for a minimum salary of Rs 500  if conceded would take the said staff out of the category of workman  as defined in Sec
2s of the Act
Such an Award and any Award carrying wages beyond Rs 500 at any stage was according to the Tribunal beyond its jurisdiction to make
It also held that other workmen could not raise a dispute which would involve consideration of matters in relation to non workmen and that it would be even beyond the jurisdiction of the Central Govt
to refer such a dispute under the Act
The Tribunal therefore made no Award in regard to the Supervisory staff in Class IT
This Court held that the Tribunal was not justified in holding that if at a future time an incumbent would draw wags in the time scale in excess of Rs 500  the matter must be taken to be withdrawn from the jurisdiction of the Central Govt
to make a reference in respect of him and the Tribunal to be ousted of the jurisdiction to decide the dispute if referred Supervisory staff drawing less than Rs 5001 per month cannot be debarred from claiming that they should draw more than Rs 500presently or at some future stage in their service
They can only be deprived of the benefits if they are non workmen at the time they seek the protection of the Act
It was further held that in Sec 2 k of the Act the word person has not been limited to workmen  and must therefore receive a more general 1  3 8 5 meaning
But it does not mean any person unconnected with the disputants in relation to whom the dispute is not of the kind described
It could not have been intended that although the dispute does not concern them in the least workmen are entitled to fight it out on behalf of non workmen
But if the dispute is regarding employment non employment terms of employment or conditions of labour of non workmen in which workmen are themselves vitally interested the workmen may be able to raise an industrial dispute
Workmen can for example raise a dispute that a class of employees not within the definition of workmen  should be recruited by promotion from workmen
When they do so the workmen raise a dispute about the terms of their own employment though incidentally the terms of employment of those who are not workmen is involved
But workmen cannot take up a dispute in respect of a class of employees who are not workmen and in whose terms of employment those workmen have no direct interest of their own
What direct interest suffices is a question of fact but it must be a real and positive interestand not fanciful or remote
Hidayatullah J as he then was speaking for this Court concluded at page 45 thus  It follows therefore that the National Tribunal was in error in considering the claim of class 2 employees whether at the instance of members drawing less than Rs 500 as wages or at the instance of those lower down in the scale of employment
The National Tribunal was also in error in thinking that scales of wages in excess of Rs 500 per month at any stage were not within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal or that Govt
could not make a reference in such a contingency
We would have been required to consider the scales applicable to those in Class 11 but for the fact that the Reserve Bank has fixed scales which are admitted to be quite generous
The case of Workmen of Dimakuchi Tea Estate vs Management Dimakuchi Tea Estate q was referred to with approval
There the majority section R Dass CJ section K Das J A K Sarkar J dissenting had held that the workmen cannot raise a dispute in respect of a non workman one Dr K P Banerjee whose services were terminated by the management by paying him one month salary in lieu of notice
It was contended that Dr Banerjee being not a workman his case is not one of an industrial dispute under the Act and is therefore beyond the jurisdiction of the Tribunal to give any relief to him
The matter had been referred to a Board known as the Tripartite 1  386 Appellate Board which recommended that Dr Banerjee should be reinstated from the date of his discharge
Later the Govt
of Assam referred the dispute for adjudication to a Tribunal constituted under Sec 6 of the Act
The Tribunal held that it had no jurisdiction to give any relief to him
The Appeal to the Labour Appellate Tribunal of India Calcutta was also dismissed
Special Leave was granted but was limited to the question whether the dispute in relation to a person who is not a workman falls within the scope of an industrial dispute under Sec
2k of the Act
The majority held that where the workmen raise a dispute as against their employer the person regarding whom the dispute is raised must be one in whose employment non employment terms of employment or conditions of labour as the case may be the parties to the dispute have a direct or substantial interest 
Where the workmen raise a dispute as against their employer the personregardin g whose employment non employment terms ofemployment or conditions of labour the dispute israisedneed not be strictly speaking a workman  within the meaning of the Act but must be one in whose employment non employment terms of employment or conditions of labour the workmen as a class have a direct or substantial interest
Applying these principles the majority came to the conclusion that Dr Banerjee who belonged to the Medical or Technical staff was not a workman and the Appellants had neither direct nor substantial interest in his employment or non employment and even assuming that he was a member of the same trade Union it cannot be said on the test laid down that the dispute regarding his termination of service was an industrial dispute within the meaning of Sec 2k of the Act
section K Das J who delivered the judgment of the majority in the above case also spoke for the Court in Workmen vs Dahingeapara Tea Estate1 In the Dahingeapara case on the sale of the Tea Estate as a going concern the purchaser continued to employ the labour and some members of the staff of the vendor
The question was whether the dispute raised by such workmen regarding the employment of the rest of the members of the old staff was an industrial dispute
It was held that it was
The reference was against the outgoing management as I well as against the incoming management of the Tea Estate
It may be noticed that under the agreement of sale an option was given to the purchaser to continue in employment the members of 1 AIR 1968 SC 1026
387 the staff
it also made the vendor liable for the claims by the members of the staff not so retained in service by the purchaser
In these circumstances it was held that as between the vendor and the discharged workmen the latter came within the definition of the workmen as they were discharged during the pendency of conciliation proceedings
This fact however did not make them workmen of the purchaser
Even then they were persons in whose employment or non employment the actual workmen of the Dahingeapara Tea Estate were directly interested
The ratio of the Western India Automobile Association vs Industrial Tribunal Bombay1 as also of the later decision in Workmen of Dimakunchi Tea Estate vs Management  2  was made applicable and the dispute was held to be clearly an in dustrial dispute within the meaning of the Act
A reference is made to the Standard Vacuum Refining Company of India Ltd vs Its workmen  Anr 3 where the question relating to the dispute arising out of the demand for the abolition of the contract system of employing labour for cleaning and maintenance work at the refinery including the premises and plant belonging to it and for absorbing the workmen employed through the contractors into the regular service of the Company was considered
The Company objected to the reference on the ground that   1  it was incompetent inasmuch as there was no dispute between it and the Res pondents and it was not open to them to raise a dispute with respect to the workmen of some other employer namely the contractor and 2 in any case it was for the Company to decide what was the best method of carrying on its business and the Tribunal could not interfere with function of the management
The Tribunal held that the reference was competent and that the claim was justified
Following the Dimakuchi case this Court held that the dispute in the present case was an industrial dispute because 1 the Respondents had a community of interests with the workmen of the contractor 2 they had also a substantial interest in the subject matter of the dispute in the sense that the class to which they belonged namely workmen was substantially affected thereby and 3 the Company could give relief in the matter
The conclusion of the Tribunal that the contract system should be abolished was held to be just in the circumstances of the case and should not be interfered with
It would therefore appear that the consistent view of this Court is that non workmen as well as Workmen can raise a dispute in respect of matters affecting their employment conditions of service etc where they have a community of interests provided they are direct and are not remote
As stated in the 1  2 A I R 388 Reserve Bank of India s case1 But workmen cannot take up a dispute in respect of a class of employees who are not workmen and in whose terms of employment those workmen have no direct interest of their own
At any rate as long as there are persons in the category of workmen in respect of whom a dispute has been referred it cannot be said that the Tribunal has no jurisdiction notwithstanding the fact that some or many of them may become non workmen during the pendency of the dispute
In these circumstances the Tribunal in our view was wrong in holding that the dispute regarding Supervisors was not maintainable merely because a demand was made for a higher wage scale which would take them out of the category of workmen
The Tribunal has jurisdiction to decide these matters because on the crucial date the supervisors were workmen and merely because of the demand the Tribunal does not lose its jurisdiction to prescribe the pay scales and the dearness allowance either by reason of the fact that the maximum will go beyond Rs 500 or that even the initial pay demanded will be more than Rs 500 
Provided that at the time of adjudication there are some at least in the category who are workmen
But the question is if there are none at all and all of them have become non workmen either during the pendency or at the time of adjudication does the dispute survive  In other words does the dispute remain a dispute between employers and workmen within the meaning of Section 2 k of the Act These questions arise out of the fifth contention urged before us by the learned Advocate for the Respondents namely whether in fact there are now any supervisors working in any of the Companies because as the learned Advocate for the Respondent contends if they are none and they are all non workmen the dispute lapses and at any rate the fixation of a wage scale for non existing workmen would be an exercise in futility
The learned Advocate for the Appellant contests this proposition on the ground that even if there are no supervisor workmen working in the Companies the matter should be considered by the Tribunal inasmuch as any pay scale prescribed by it would have retrospective operation as from the 1st of April 59 which what this Court had directed while remanding the case back to the Tribunal in Civil Appeals Nos
272 280 of 1962
For this reason it is said that those workmen who have since gone out of the category of workmen or have retired or resigned would be entitled to the benefit of the pay structure and could recover arrears
In the Reserve Bank case a similar situation had to be considered
The reference to the National Tribunal was in 1960 and by the time the matter came to be decided all of them were getting wages in 11966 1 SC 25 3 8 9 excess of Rs 500 per month and were non workmen
It was held at page 46 In view of the fact that all of them now receive at the start wages  in excess of Rs 500 per month there is really no issue left concerning them once we have held that they are working in a supervisory capacity
 In the result the Appeal was dismissed with the observation that it would have partly succeeded but for the creation of new scales of pay for Class II employees and acceptance of some of the minor points by the Reserve Bank
It is however contended by the learned Advocate for the Appellant that in that case Mr Chari had acknowledged at page 37 that the scales of pay which were awarded were as generous as the present circumstances of our country permit
In view of this admission it is said that this Court made no order and therefore that should not be taken into consideration in deciding whether the matter should be remended to the Tribunal for fixing pay scales of the Supervisors
The learned Advocate however ignored the observation immediately preceding the admission made by Mr Chari
It was observed at page 37 but more than this the minimum total emoluments as envisaged by the definition of wages even at the commencement of service of each and every member of Class II staff on January 1 1962 now exceed Rs 500 pm
This of course was done with a view to withdrawing the whole class from the ambit of the reference because it is supposed no member of the class can now come within the definition of workman 
We shall of course decide the question whether the resolution has that effect
If it does it certainly relieves us of the task of considering scales of pay for these employees for no remit is now possible as no National Tribunal is sitting
The scales have been accepted as generous the dispute regarding scales of pay for Class II employees under the reference really ceases to be a live issue
The decision therefore must be understood in the light of the above observations
The reason for this conclusion is that if there are no workmen of the category with respect to whom a dispute has been referred the Tribunal cannot be called upon to prescribe a wage structure for non existing workmen nor does it have the jurisdiction to do so
The dispute in this sense must be deemed to have lapsed
The question therefore to be determined in this case is whether as a matter of fact there are any workmen now working in a Supervisory capacity who are drawing more than Rs 500  so that it would be futile for us to direct the Tribunal to fix scales of Day and dearness allowance in respect of a category of employees who are no longer workmen and with respect 3 90 to whom the reference can be said to have been withdrawn as in the case of the Reserve Bank of India
In Support of this contention that there are in fact no supervisors at present who can be termed workmen in the two Companies the learned Advocate for the Respondents asked for permission to file an affidavit which permission we gave with liberty to the Appellant to file a counter
Accordingly the Appellant has filed a counter and the Respondents have submitted their rejoinders
In paragraph 3 of the affidavit filed on behalf of the Respondents it is stated that the Second Respondent Company namely Greaves Cotton  Crompton Parkinson Pvt
Ltd Crompton Greaves Ltd
 employed 15 employees in the Supervisory cadre as shown in the statement filed in pursuance of the Tribunals order dated 15 1 64 but as on the date of the affidavit only four persons remained in the Supervisory cadre Grade 11
There are no person employed in other Supervisory grade
It wasalso pointed out that all these 4 employees were in the Supervisory Grade II and drawing a total salary as on July 1971 exceeding Rs 500 a month
In the annexure to the affidavit the reason given was that eachone of the Supervisors at the time when the statement was filedin January 1964 had ceased to be a Super visor
Out of the15 persons whose names were given four resigned
2 retired one died two retrenched and two were promoted as Technical Assistants
The remaining four of them are all drawing per month a salary of Rs 54550 as Grade II Supervisors
These are SShri Deshmukh Gurbax Singh Kaslay and Pastakia
In so far as Greaves Cotton  Co Ltd is concerned it was urged that even on 1 1 64 as per exhibit RC 2 the only three Supervisors who had been working with them were drawing a salary in excess of Rs 500 which will take them out of the category of workmen
These are G G Naik section section Kulkarni M D Gupte who were on that date drawing a total salary of Rs 505  Rs 58173 and Rs 54558 respectively
This statement was again reiterated in the rejoinder where it was stated that these were promoted in 1965 the latter two as Assistant Engineers and the former as Superintendent Cone  tube plant
The counter affidavit by the Appellant sworn to by the General Secretary of the Greaves Cotton  allied Companies Union apart from containing averments which are not germanium to the matter in issue does not traverse the specific statement in respect of each one of the Super visors nor does it say that any of them were still supervisors drawing a salary of less than Rs 500 
It was because of the submission of the learned Advocate on instructions that there are still some Supervisors 3 91 employed by the Respondents who are workmen within the meaning of Sec 2 s of the Act we had asked him to file a counter giving the name of the person or persons who are still working in that capacity and their total emoluments but we find from the counter except for a bare denial no specific averment as aforesaid has been made nor does the counter states categorically who are the persons who are now working as Supervisors and drawing less than Rs 500 
With the counter were annexed two statements Annexure A   Annexure B  the former showing supervisors working in Greaves Cotton  Crompton Parkinson Ltd as on 30 5 59 with wage drawn by them on that date the latter is the statement showing list of Supervisors working in the said Company as on 1st October 65 and the wage drawn by them for the month of September 1965
Merely to state that there were Supervisors on 8 4 59 the day on which the Govt
of Maharashtra made the reference or in 1964 or 1965 or to say that even today there are Supervisors working in that Com pany or that the Industrial Tribunal went into the question and gave its finding against the Company holding that there were Departmental Foremen in the Factories of Greaves Cotton  Co Ltd does not advance the case any further than what it was when we permitted the Respondents to file the affidavit
We cannot therefore accept a mere denial in respect of the crucial point whether today there are Supervisors working in the Respondent Companies who are drawing a basic wage together with dearness allowance of less than Rs 5001 as stated in the affidavit and again reiterated in the rejoinder
The entire argument of the Respondents that any decision given by this Court would be otiose is based upon the existence or non existence of the said fact
In view of the omission to state specifically in the counter the names of the persons who as of now are still working as Supervisors and drawing less than Rs 500 we cannot but hold that the averments made by the Respondents that there are no employees who are working at present in a supervisory capacity and who can be said to be workmen have been substantiated
If so for the reasons given the issue lapses as such these appeals will be dismissed but in the circumstances without costs


Summary:
This Court in appeal against the award of the Industrial Tribunal in disputes between the appellants and the respondents confirmed the wage scale and dearness allowance fixed by the Industrial Tribnual for the clerical and subordinate staff but set aside the wage scale and dearness allowance fixed for factory workmen and remanded the matter to the Tribunal for fresh fixation
When the matter was taken up by the Tribunal the workmen contended that the dispute regarding foremen or supervisors was concluded by the judgment of this Court on the ground that they were included in subordinate staff
The Tribunal however held that the supervisors were not workmen within the meaning of the  and hence the claim for revision of wages and dearness allowance payable to them should be rejected
In appeal by special leave to this Court on the questions  1 Whether the case of supervisors was remanded to the Tribunal for adjudication 2 whether it was open to the respondents to contend for the first time after remand that the Tribunal had no jurisdiction to fix the wage scale and dearness allowance of supervisors 3 Whether supervisors getting less than Rs 500 per mensem on the date of reference could raise the dispute regarding wages which would take their salary beyond Rs 500 per mensem 4 Whether if the supervisors were all non workmen the appellants could raise a dispute about their terms of employment and 5 whether in fact none of the supervisors was drawing less than  Rs 500 per mensem when the matter was taken up on remand and the Tribunal was therefore right in rejecting the appellant s claim for fixation of the wage scale and dearness allowance of supervisors
HELD  1 The judgment of this Court shows that the subordinate staff and factory workmen were treated separately
This Court in remanding the case of the factory workmen had under contemplation all those workmen who on the date of reference were employed in a supervisory capacity and drawing less than Rs 500
There is nothing in the remand order to warrant the submission that the case of supervisors was included in the category of subordinate staff or that it was not remanded
381 C D F H 2 It was open to both parties to raise all the contentions that were open to them because on remand the wage structure of the factory workers including basic wage and dearness allowance had to be considered afresh
A reference to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the award to which the special leave was confined showed that both parties were proceeding on the basis that the Tribunal had jurisdiction to deal with those supervisors who under the Act were workmen
382 A C 3 The Tribunal bad jurisdiction to consider revision of wages dearness allowance and other emoluments so long as there is a category of 374 workmen who though employed in a supervisory capacity were drawing less than Rs 500 
Even if they ask for a pay structure which takes their salary beyond Rs 500 that by itself does not preclude the jurisdiction of the Tribunal to determine what is the proper wage structure for that class or category of workmen
Once a Tribunal is vested with the jurisdiction to entertain the dispute it does not cease to have that jurisdiction merely because the claim made goes beyond the wages which takes workmen out of that category and makes them non workmen
What has to be seen is whether on date of reference there was any dispute in respect of workmen which could be referred under the Act to the Tribunal
Therefore supervisory staff drawing less than Rs 500 per mensem cannot be debarred from claiming that they should draw more than Rs 500presently that is at the very commencement of inquiry or at Some future stage in their service
They can only be deprived of the benefits if they are non workmen at the time they seek the protection of the Act
383 F H 384 A C G H 4 Workmen can raise a dispute in respect of matters affecting the employment conditions of service etc
of workmen as well as non workmen when they have a community of interest
Such interest must be real and positive and not merely fanciful or remote
But workmen cannot take up a dispute in respect of a class of employees who are not workmen and in whose terms of employment the workmen have no direct interest of their own
 What interest suffices as direct is a question of fact but as long as there are persons in the category of workmen in respect of whom a dispute has been referred it cannot be said that the Tribunal has no jurisdiction notwithstanding the fact that some or many of them may become non workmen during the pendency of the dispute
385 A D 387 H 388 A B All India Reserve Bank of India Employees Association v Reserve Bank of India   Workmen of Dimakuchi Tea Estate vs Management of Dimakuchi Tea Estate   Workmen vs Dahingeapara Tea Estate AIR 1968 SC 1026 Western India Automobile Association vs Industrial Tribunal Bombay and Standard Vacuum Refining Company India vs Its Workmen   followed
5 In the present case however on the evidence it must be held that when the matter was taken up on remand there were no supervisors drawing less than Rs 500 per mensem and hence there were no employees who were working in a supervisory capacity who can be said to be workmen
If there are no workmen of the category with respect to whom a dispute has been referred the Tribunal cannot be called upon to prescribe a wage structure for non existing workmen nor does it have jurisdiction to do so
The dispute with respect to them must be deemed to have elapsed
388 C F 389 G H