Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1694823755497.pdf (Fiji)
WEDNESDAY, 18TH NOVEMBER, 2015 The Parliament resumed at 9.40 a.m. pursuant to adjournment.

MADAM SPEAKER took the Chair and read the Prayer.

PRESENT All Honourable Members were present, except the Honourable Prime Minister and Minister for iTaukei Affairs and Sugar, the Honourable Assistant Minister for Youth and Sports and the Honourable Ratu N.T.

Lalabalavu.

MINUTES HON.


LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT IN PARLIAMENT.- Madam Speaker, I beg to move: That the Minutes of the sitting of Parliament held on Tuesday, 17th November, 2015 as previously circulated, be taken as read and be confirmed.

HON.

A. SUDHAKAR.- Madam Speaker, I beg to second the motion.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Speaker, Point of Order to the Minutes.

There were some important issues raised by some Honourable Ministers yesterday which we need to refer to before we confirm the Minutes.
The issue is that one of the Ministers raised that they do condone terrorism in Fiji.

We need to read that in the Minutes.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Speaker, we are talking about the Minutes.

That will probably be coming up in the Daily Hansard and that can be raised when that is brought to the House.

MADAM SPEAKER.- Thank you.

The Hansard Reporters are present.

Please ensure that the issue is recorded in the Daily Hansard report.
Apart from that the Parliament will now vote on the motion.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 528 Question put.

Motion agreed to.

COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE CHAIR MADAM SPEAKER.- I welcome all Honourable Members to the continuation of the Budget process.

Very shortly we will continue with the Committee of Supply.

In addition to its representative and oversight functions, the Budget process or the approval of the supply of finance to the State is one of the core functions of Parliament.
Acknowledgement of Visitors I am therefore pleased to welcome the students, parents and teachers of Vunibokoi District School from Verata, Tailevu.

I am sure the students will be quite happy to know that two of our Members namely the Honourable Lt. Col. Inia B. Seruiratu and Honourable Jiosefa Dulakiverata were former students of your school.

(Acclamation) We also have students from Gram Sangathan Primary School and Bhawani Dayal Memorial Primary School joining us later in today’s proceedings as well.
On that note I wish all the students well in their studies.

I also warmly welcome members of the public joining us in the gallery and those watching proceedings on television, internet and listening to the radio.

Thank you for taking interest in your Parliament.

Blue Ribbon Campaign Honourable Members, we have received a request from the Ministry of Women, Children and Poverty Alleviation to their Blue Ribbon Campaign.
This is a worldwide effort to recognise the collective responsibility to prevent and confront all forms of child abuse and neglect.

The Honourable Minister for Women, Children and Poverty Alleviation invites all Honourable Members to support their cause by wearing blue tomorrow, Thursday 19th November, 2015.

That of course is voluntary, but your show of support will be appreciated.
Daily Hansard – Tuesday, 17th November, 2015 A final reminder, Honourable Members, is that our Hansard transcription is slightly delayed and this will be circulated later today as soon as it is completed.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 529 Committee of Supply Now the Parliament will resolve into the Committee of Supply to continue consideration of the Heads in the Budget Estimates and then the Schedules and Clauses of the 2016 Appropriation Bill, 2015.
As explained yesterday for the Committee stage, I will sit at the table with the Secretary General and Members should refer to me as Madam Chair.

The mace will also be placed in the bracket under the table.

The Secretary General will announce each Head separately, Members may then stand to speak on that Head.

You may speak more than once on each Head, you may also move amendments to the Estimates in that Head.
If a Member does move an amendment, the Parliament may debate it and then we will have a vote on the amendment.

At the end of the debate on the Head, we will also vote on the Head.

Please be reminded that amendments in Committee of Supply are limited to those permitted in Standing Order 100 (2), this is either an increase, decrease or removal of the item or sub-head from the Head being debated.

RESUMPTION OF DEBATE ON THE 2016 APPROPRIATION BILL 2015 In Committee: Head No.
16 – Ministry of Communications HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, SEG 1 - would the Honourable Minister explain the increase to Personal Emoluments?

Does this mean recruiting new staff or increments for the current staff, and if it is hiring, Madam Chair, are we hiring professionals from within Fiji or expatriates?

While on that, Madam Chair, let me just again express our concern that the Budget does not carry the head count of each Ministry.
We all come from the private sector and some of us who were civil servants, in any budget, we should have an indication of the head count.

I know that it has been explained to us over the last few days, but please, we are custodians of the funds for the people of Fiji and any shareholder will want to know how many head counts are in any organisation.

I hope that could be taken into consideration, Madam Chair.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, the answer is very simple.
If the Opposition looked at Programme 1, Activity 3, that no longer exists and that has been brought up into Programme 1, Activity 1.

You just add that up, it comes up to that figure approximately.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, SEG 7 - would the Honourable Minister justify the increase to $200,000 for the allocation of the Regional ICT Meeting when this year .… MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Sorry, which Activity are you referring to?
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 530 HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- SEG 7, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON- There is no SEG 7, we are looking at Activity 1 – General Administration.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Yes, we are still on Activity 1.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, there is no SEG 7.

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBER.- There is, in Programme 3.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Yes, Programme 3, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Lets just hear from Programme 1, we will come to Programme 3 later on.

HON.

V.R.
HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Sorry, that is all I have to say about Programme 1.

MADAM CHAIR.- Thank you for that clarification.

We are still on Head 16-1-1, if there is any further comments?

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister inform the House on the increase in allocation by $639.9,000 in Head 16-1-1-5?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- What is the question?

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, on Head 16-1-1-5, there is an increase in allocation by $639,000 from $195,000 in the 2015 allocation.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, that is noted.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- The question is why?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, again, if we look at Programme 1, Activity 3 which no longer exists, it had $660.90; you add that up and you take it up to SEG 5 and you add that up, that is why you get the increase.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Has that answered your question, Honourable Aseri?

Thank you.

Anymore comments on Activity 1?

HON.


A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, just a clarification, will this mean Activity 3 will no longer be in operation as from next year?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 531 HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, yes it will be in operation but it is in Programme 1, Activity 1, it has been put under that one Programme.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any further comments?

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.


BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, in regards to SEG 3 - Travel and Communications.

The actual for 2014 was $99.7K, what was used was $83.2K but now there is a big increase to $168,000.

Why is there an increase in this and because the actual says that used was only $99,000, why is there a big increase?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, I am again answering the question.

The movement is from Programme 1, Activity 3.


The actual you talking about is 2014, it is not 2015.

Madam Chair, 2015 is not yet finished, the year is still on foot.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any further comments?

Thank you.

The Parliament will now vote on Head 16.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, we have not finished the Programmes, my question was on Programme 3, SEG 7, the allocation for the Regional Meeting is for $70,000, we are now showing $200,000.

Can that be explained, Madam Chair?


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Honourable Chair, that is, we are hosting a Commonwealth Telecommunication Organisation Conference that will be held next year.

It was publicised in the news that we have got the rights to host that and that funding will go towards the hosting for the CTO Conference in which we expect dozens of countries, not just from within the region, but in fact outside the region, they will be attending.
HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, we feel that it is too much and we would like to move a motion, pursuant to Standing Order 100 (2) that SEG 7 be decreased to $50,000 in respect of this.

Madam Chair, we should have sponsors for this, the Fiji Government should not be paying for this totally.

I think we can ask for sponsors and reduce the budget to $50,000.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

HON.


A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, just for clarification, if you look at the number of countries that will be attending, in fact, there are dozens and dozens of countries.

I recall that when we last hosted the CTO Conference, the civil servants had then put in a budget of $1.1 million and we actually hosted it for about $240,000 from memory.

The reason why that was because we actually got sponsors.

So in fact this $200,000 caters for having sponsors.
Of course, if we get sponsors, and one of the things that we do, which many Government did not do previously, in fact they did not do at all, we outsourced many of these.
So, for example, 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 532 in the last CTO Conference, we used Rosie Tours and ATS Pacific to actually do all the transportation, the actual welcoming party, it creates jobs as opposed to commandeering Government vehicles from Suva and sending them across, where you have to pay for the drivers’ overtime, meals and hotel accommodation.

When you outsource it, it actually takes care of all of that.

So by outsourcing, it obviously creates jobs too.


That $200,000, Madam Chair, I would say is sufficient and should not be reduced at all.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Gavoka, do you retain your amendment?

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Yes, Madam Chair.

HON.

RATU S.V.

NANOVO.- Madam Chair, still on SEG 7, can the Honourable Minister explain the repetition of the allocation, Implementation Analogue to Digital Roadmap is the same amount of $2 million from this year’s budget?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Thank you, Honourable Member for that question.

Madam Chair, this again is the switch from the analogue to digital.

As you know, there is an allocation of $2 million, we expect approximately about $1.2 million thereabout to be used this year.

There is still the need to continue the switch.


As you know that we had stated this earlier on last year about the set-top boxes that will be given to ordinary Fijians, particularly those who cannot afford it and this is there to subsidise those costs.

So it is a spill over into next year also.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

RATU.

S.V.


NANOVO.- Madam Chair, can I suggest that under Standing Order 100(2) to move without notice that the Head 16, SEG 7 be decreased to $1 million in respect of the implementation analogue to digital roadmap.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, while we are filling in the form, Honourable Vadei.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

This is in relation to the Conventions that we are signatories to.
I fail to find in SEG 7 the national time frequency to be maintained on a national level - the rubidium frequency and the caesium frequency.

I move a motion under Standing Order 100 (2) that Head 16, SEG 7, there be an increase of $1 million for the purchase of this national time frequency because it is a very important parameter to be used by aeroplanes, marines and our national frequency in the delivery of those services.

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, if I can suggest to the Opposition, I know that they are reading from notes, it is probably written for them, but if they can ….

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS.- (Inaudible Interjections) 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 533 HON.
A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- No, because they have failed continuously, Madam Chair, they simply stand up and say, “the Honourable Member Vadei said, ‘I want to make an amendment to Head 16, SEG 7.” Under Head 16, there are various Programmes, Activities and then there is Segments.

You need to highlight, Madam Chair, through you, what is the Head, what is the Programme, what it is the Activity and then what is the Segment under that.
Please get that right because it is very confusing as you are all talking about Head 16, SEG 7; which Programme and Activity - you need to state that.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, I just like to highlight again that we had requested the Honourable Minister for Finance for assistance while we were looking at the Budget, and we could have saved time if the officials were allowed to come and brief us.

We had requested that and it was denied.


I mean this is a very complicated exercise, not everyone is a money kind of person.

For the benefit of our people, we need time to scrutinise the Budget and that is why we need the expertise.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Order, order!

HON.

S.V.


RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, that workshop was not even enough because the officials came in to brief us but the Honourable Minister for Finance, Public Enterprises, Public Service and Communications came in, intervened and he took the session and it was in a rush and apart from that we had requested for assistance but he did not allow it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, your point is taken.

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, that workshop was open to all Members of the Opposition.

It is their problem if they chose not attend.

Honourable Radrodro came in, no one took over the session.

They were given time, please you have a smirk on your face because you know that I am telling the truth.

(Laughter) Because, Madam Chair, there was no restriction….

(Inaudible Interjection) HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- You did not attend, do not talk.

Madam Chair, ….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Order, please!

HON.


A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- The point is that everyone was allowed to attend… HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- (Inaudible Interjection) HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- No.

There is no Point of Order, it is a Committee of Supply.

Sit down.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 534 (Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please, let the Honourable Minister finish.

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, Honourable Nawaikula would have done well if he were here yesterday, when I mentioned about the black sheep from Marist.

(Laughter) Madam Chair, the point is that that workshop was open to all Members of this House.

Only a handful of them chose to attend.

There was no time restriction placed on any of those sessions.
No one said “you go home now”, or “leave now”; we had said “you can ask as many questions as you like.” We took them specifically and explained what is a Head, what is a Programme, what is an Activity and it is very rich coming from a former civil servant who was a Director of Women saying “it is a very complicated document”.

Madam Chair, it is very simple.

All we are saying, please, it is clearly stated, it is in the English language ….

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.


A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Head 16, Programme 3, Activity 1 and SEG whatever - that is all we are asking.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, the Honourable and learned Attorney- General is always used to giving lectures.

I saw the presentation that some of his presenters made at the workshop, they were sketchy and not worth ….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Excuse me, which Activity are you referring to?

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I am talking about the workshop that he was talking about.

Let me talk about this Programme.

Programme 16-4-1 SEGs 7 and 9.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Member, we are still on Head 16-3- 1.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- We have finished that.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- No, we still have not finished that.

MADAM SPEAKER.- Honourable Nawaikula stood up, did you have something to say?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 535 HON.
N. NAWAIKULA.- Yes, Madam Chair.

We do not want people to come here and lecture.

Could we limit ourselves to the things that we are supposed to do - SEG, Activity and then move on?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- That is exactly what ….

(Chorus of Interjections) HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Whatever, we do not want to be here until midnight.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Order, order!

I think it is very clear the way I am doing it.


I am actually saying, “Programme 3, Activity 1” and when you speak, you speak on the SEGs under Activity 1 - very clear.

Please keep at that and we will be better organised.

I will call on Honourable Vadei who stood up.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, I was referring to Head 16-3- 1- 7.

(Chorus of Interjections) That is where I was coming from because I did not find any national time frequency to be maintained nationally.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Your recommendation for an amendment is noted.

We will be debate on that before we vote.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Honourable and learned Attorney-General makes a big deal of Heads.

We already know that we are on Head 16-4-1-7 – Consultancy Payments.

I see $2 million allocated, not under Requisition.


Can I ask the Honourable Minister as to what this Consultancy Payment is for?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, this had been elucidated in this House previously, and in fact the Honourable Dr Biman Prasad would know as Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee what Consultancy Payment is.

It is for the development of software and also for the management of the Government’s ITC Department.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad, are you still talking on the same… HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Yes, Madam Chair, on the same Programme – 16-4-1-9 - Digitisation – BDM, Companies and Titles Office.

Can the Honourable Minister of Finance inform the House the progress on that and whether that will be completed in 2016?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 536 HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, I am happy to inform the House, in fact, the programme has already started.
We have at the moment two shifts of people who are working up till midnight every night.

We hope to increase that to a 24-hour shift.


Essentially what this involves is all the titles that have been issued in Fiji right since the Colonial times, none of it has been digitised, in fact some of the titles are falling apart, right up till only about four or five years ago, we were in fact, all the Governments had breached the law and the law had stated that all the titles in Fiji and the Titles Office must be kept in a fire proof environment.
In fact it was on Level 2, the floor was sinking because of the weight.

At the moment, now as you know, it is on the Ground Floor, Civic Towers.

So we are now actually capturing, and a lot of the documents are actually falling apart.

Honourable Dulakiverata would know this from the Lands Department that many titles are falling apart, in fact, because some of them in fact had been moth eaten.
So we are now trying to capture all that - the digitisation is taking place so we have all of that on digital records and then eventually the idea is, for example, if Honourable Nawaikula as one of his clients lodges a caveat on a property then he can do that online and very quickly and efficiently.

Vinaka.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I will now give the floor to the Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


Head 16-3-1-6 – what is the basis of the grant to Telecommunications Authority of Fiji to the amount of $948,908 whilst they are generating revenue?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, the Telecommunications Authority of Fiji does collect some revenue from the various telecom licence holders.

I do not have the figures on hand at the moment, but it does carry out very important work.
As you may know, some of you who use mobile phones, there are certain parts of Suva that you do drive along now, you will find that the call drops off.

The reason why it does that is that a lot of people are bringing in hands free mobile sets for their homes and the frequency, a lot of it is American frequency, that interferes with our frequencies, and they carry out that type of work where they are able to find those equipment.
In fact, they need to be licensed, they need to have the frequency that is approved before it lands into Fiji.

They carry out all that type of work as far as the telecommunication aspect in Fiji is concerned.

They also look at, for example, the collation of the Universal Service Access Fund, the Telecommunication companies need to pay.
As you know that we have put in place a law, where certain percentage goes towards that, and in next year you will see from that particular fund and as we have already advertised in the papers, a lot of the brown spots in Fiji or blackout spots in Fiji, where you do not actually have reception we will be able to fund that through the Universal Services Access Fund to put more telecom towers to get more telecommunication services through that area.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 537 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

I give the floor to the Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I just go back to Head 16.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Apologies, Honourable Nawaikula.

Honourable Kiliraki, are you still talking on the same issue?

Honourable Nawaikula,, I will just let him finish.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- I need to put a motion in regards to the answer.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


I will give you the form and then you will speak on the motion when it comes to the debate on that motion.

HON.

RATU.

K. KILIRAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Pursuant to Standing Orders 100 (2), I move without notice that Head 16-3-6 be decreased by $448,908.00, Grant to Telecommunications Authority of Fiji.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, you will speak on it later.

I now call on the Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- I just go back to Head 16, Programme 4, Activity 1, SEG 9, that the Honourable Minister had explained before on the Digitisation in the Titles Office.

Can you assure this House that this work will be completed this year, unlike others which were budgeted for and were not done years and years?

So, will this be completed?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chairperson, the money that has been set in the Estimates which we are debating is sufficient for this work.

Thank you.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I was asking what happened to the people and not the Budget.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chairperson, this is about the Budget, it is about Estimates.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You want to increase, decrease or remain?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I just want an assurance from him, is that part of it?

Can you tell us that it will be done?


HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Ask the question when I am here in February, make sure you attend Parliament.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 538 HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Head16-3-1-7 on Implementation Analogue to Digital Roadmap with the amount of $2,000,000.
Can the honourable Minister inform this House on the basis of this $2,000,000 and whether there will be some contributions from the private sectors, in addition to this $2,000,000?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chairperson, I have already answered this question, thank you.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chairperson, just one last one; Head 16, Programme 4, Activity 1, SEG 10 on a National Switch with an allocation of $300,000.
This is an ongoing project and whether this is going to be completed this year or are we still developing the system on the National Switch?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you want to increase, decrease or remain with the allocation?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- I am asking the preliminary question first, Madam, if there is still work to be done, then I will propose an amendment for them to increase or decrease in regards to the completion.
What are the details for this allocation, just to justify, I am coming to why, just allow the Honourable Minister to answer.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The onus is on you, Honourable Minister.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chairperson, I will answer the question, because I like to entertain the Honourable Bulitavu.
Madam Chairperson, if the Honourable Nawaikula and his companions read Standing Orders 100, the Honourable Chairperson has actually given you a lot of latitude, because if you were to stick to the Standing Orders, you do not have these kind of exchanges and things that you are asking.

So, we will oblige you when we feel like it.

Madam Chairperson, the Honourable Bulitavu is absolutely correct, this project in fact, we have spoken about it now for couple of years.
We have had in our consultations with some of the banks, as you know the national switch the idea is, at the moment, if I can explain again, as I have answered to this House previously, at the moment if you are an ANZ card holder, you use your EFTPOS card, you can go to any bank or most banks not all banks, to use that ATM card even though you are an ANZ card holder you can go to Westpac.
The reason why you are able to do that is, because ANZ and Westpac have a bilateral agreement, and they charge you say $1.50 for this.

They all have bilateral agreements, for years ANZ, Westpac, BSP now which is Colonial got together and did not allow other banks to come into that.

For example, Baroda was always left out.

That is why Baroda did not have ATM machines.

The Bred Bank at the moment, is left out because none of these big people want to have a bilateral agreement with them.
So, they are setting up their own ATM machines.

To make electronic banking a lot more efficient and accessibility, we should have only one centralised switch.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 539 By law all the banks should connect their ATM machines, it could include even TLTB, FSC, whoever it is, that disperses a lot of funds to connect to the national switch and then for a very small fee, just a couple of cents, we can get everyone to switch with each other and then no small bank is left out.

Because if you have banks left out, and in this day and age you need access to electronic banking, it increases the capital expenditure.
So, the idea is to have services , more focus on services and bank services.

That is the idea of a switch.

We have had meetings, at the moment, we are developing a law, the draft law should again be tabled in February in this august House, for that to be put to the Committee Stage and then we can have this implemented.

Vinaka HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chairperson, in addition to that question, whether our relatives from overseas can be contacted to those national switch in their banking system also?

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Shall I oblige?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, would you like to oblige, because really, the onus is on you, Honourable Minister to answer that question.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- I feel compelled to answer that, Madam Chairperson.

Honourable Member, it depends on the existing banks and the relationships they have.

The switch is focused on Fiji.

We do not have the jurisdiction to impose the national switch on the nationality of another country.
[INAUDIBLE INTERJECTION] So, please hear me out, you have the switch here, you have ANZ, Westpac, everyone else sitting around it, if ANZ has a relationship with someone on their own basis on a bilateral basis, as you can use the maestro card, where you can now take your ATM card from your bank here and you can put it in that machine, they will charge you a percentage if you are in Geneva or where ever you may visit.
They will take a fee from that because the relationship between ANZ and Westpac or whoever it is with that particular electronic company.

So, the national switch does not have a relationship with an international company, it has a relationship with the bank that is domiciled in Fiji and if that bank that is domiciled in Fiji has a relationship with someone else outside that, that is between them and it may be able to access to the switch, I do not know.

HON.

P. SINGH.- That is something to be legislated.


HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Not necessarily, we cannot legislate banks or companies outside Fiji.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chairperson, Programme 4, Activity 1, SEG 8 on Disaster Recovery Site $50,000, given the number of disasters that we have here, is this amount enough?

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Thank you, Honourable Dulakiverata, it is in fact, an ongoing project and as you know that most ITC services must have a ‘DRP’ (Disaster Recovery Programme) so in the event for example, if the building in which the main frame of this house 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 540 catches fire, or there is a Tsunami whatever it is, it must have a site, that can act as a backup like all the banks have.
In fact, what is actually happening, a number of the banks are talking to Government now regarding the ITC Department to use us, as the backup, where they can store all their frames.

So, it is actually going to be, that is one of the things that these consultants are doing, we are getting ISO certification for the ITC Department, which will mean that private companies can even use the infrastructure that we have and indeed, we can in the future, generate income.

That is what the DRP is for.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, do you have any more comments?

There being no other comments, we will now move on to the proposal for amendment.

The first one is that, Parliament will vote on the amendment by the Honourable Vadei.

The question is, that Head 16-3-1 be increased by $1 million in respect of 16-3-7 the whole of SEG 7.

Could the Honourable Vadei just speak on this proposal for amendment?

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


Fiji is the secretary to the ISO and also the Asia Pacific Metrological Programmes (APMP).

The maintenance of national time was done by the Fiji International Telecommunications Limited (FINTEL) over the years, we requested them to develop this national time to maintain our time in Fiji.

Presently, if you listen to the radio or check with the watch, there is no coordination or synchronisation in that order.
The importance of time used by the aircraft, the marine, the captains and in cases of emergencies.

We need to capture and maintain that in Fiji.

It is very important for us and I believe we need to have this into our National Budget for 2016.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, the amendment is open for debate.

Anyone would like to make further comment on it?

There have been none and there will be no right of reply and therefore, we will vote on it.
That Head 16-3-1 be increased by $1 million in respect of 16-3-7, whole of SEG.

Does anyone opposed?

The Parliament will vote on that.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Members, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Ratu Sela Nanovo and the question is that, under Head 16-3-1 be decreased by $1 million in respect of SEG 7, Implementation Analogue to Digital Roadmap.
Would the Honourable Nanovo like to speak further on that proposal?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 541 HON.

RATU.

S.V.

NANOVO.- Madam Chair, we just thought that the $2 million may be too much, as compared to our recommendation right now.

We will try that $1 million first then we go on from there.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone want to comment?

There being no comment, we will then vote on the Head.
The question is, that Head 16-3-1 be decreased by $1 million in respect to SEG.

7 - Implementation Analogue to Digital Roadmap.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 27 5 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

We will move on to the next proposed amendment.


The Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Kiliraki and the question is that, Head 16 be decreased by $448,908 in respect of 16-3-6 - Grant to Telecommunications Authority of Fiji.

The Honourable Kiliraki, would you like to speak further on this amendment?

HON.

RATU.

K. KILIRAKI.- Yes, Madam Chair.


Since we did not receive any information on how much revenue has been generated by the Telecommunications Authority of Fiji, it does not show or at least even tell us whether it can be self-funding or otherwise.

Secondly, the Government must be able to come out of this grant for so long period.
It is okay to seek a capital grant, to be able to sustain such institutions as incubation period but for this grant to be given every year and it is being a sense of complacency to the organisations.

It is time we reduce it because we did not have any information on the revenue of the performance of Telecommunications Authority of Fiji.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, does anyone like to speak on that?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, I feel like and we need to carry out this education process.
The Honourable Member needs to realise, firstly that not all institutions can be revenue generating.

Tourism Fiji cannot be a revenue generating enterprise.

It is revenue generating for Fiji, for the Hotel Industry.

In the same way the Telecommunications Authority of Fiji, Land Transport Authority (LTA) does generate revenue.
If, for example, comes to Government coffers, we are obviously looking at aspects of how we can actually fine- tune this and you will see that in some of the entities where the Budget, for example, given for 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 542 some initial costings, they have been no longer on the books now because they are no longer required.
Similarly, the TAF was not created long time ago, it is only a few years ago and it is still in a very nascent period and that is what we are looking at and we agree that of course, there are certain organisations the grant funding can come down and others it cannot because they are providing a particular service that cannot generate revenue.

You cannot have one pen that drives all.


Similarly, in this particular instance, we believe that TAF and that amount of money is sufficient for the time being and we will see what happens in the future but we have a very close eye on what they are doing.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Before I call you, Honourable Kiliraki, you will have your right of reply.

I just invite any other Member that would like to speak on that proposed amendment.

There have been none you will now have your right of reply.
HON.

RATU.

K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, this motion arises because of the lack of information.

Once we have the information tabled, it will probably disqualifies the motion after all.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You mean, you are disqualifying your amendment?

HON.

RATU.

K. KILIRAKI.- I mean the basis, there was no information.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


That is the right of reply and Parliament will now vote on this amendment and the question is, that Head 16 be decreased by $448,908 in respect of 16-3-6 - Grant to Telecommunications Authority of Fiji.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Note Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will move on to the last proposed amendment.
The Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Viliame Gavoka and the question is, that Head 16-3-1 be decreased by $50,000 in respect of SEG7 - ICT Meeting.

The Honourable Gavoka, would you like to speak further on this?

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

This motion reflects the serious concern of the Opposition on the lavish spending by the FijiFirst Government on travel, hosting and all sorts of spending that we believe should be brought under control.
We all know what happened at Natadola, the lavish spending the helicopters, the people who brought in their 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 543 families and stayed in suites for 10 days and all meals paid.

This would be the tone of the dialogue from our side that we must curb travel and we must curb this kind of spending and perhaps, my colleagues on that side made us read what Professor Narsey said today in the Fiji Times, “When you spend money, be aware of this”.
He said in Hindi, and I quote; “Baap ke paisa nahin hai.” That should be the guideline on how we spend on these things.

We are very serious and concerned about this, Madam Chair, and this should be the tone of the dialogue going forward.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, does anyone want to speak further on that amendment?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- We most certainly do not treat our money as our father’s money, Madam Chair.
I can tell you that the previous Government treated it like it was their father’s money.

(Inaudible Interjections) You had the Natadola Project, an undischarged bankrupt was a shareholder in Natadola and he used to fly in a helicopter from Nadi Airport to Yatule, given a red carpet treatment by undischarged bankrupts and using FNPF funds.

Let me tell you, you need to do some kind of benchmarking and the reality is that, you are doing the comparison yourself.
These are the kind of shenanigans that took place.

If the Natadola issue, that has arisen on the floor had not been stopped, we would have had about a billion dollars spent on that one hotel and FNPF members funds would have been depleted today; a third of the asset base.

These are the kind of shenanigans that took place and they talk to us about our father’s money, let us not insult our fathers.

Dr. Wadan Narsey is not a good benchmark either.


None of these people treat Government funds as their father’s money, it is an insult.

People need to know whether they want to speak in their vernacular, what it actually means colloquially.

This is the point we are making.

That is enough to be said.

[Inaudible Interjections] MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, just sideways from that….

(Chorus of interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Order, order!

Just the side remark from that, I am thankful ….


(Chorus of interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Order, for heaven’s sake.

Alright, I will draw away the side remarks.

Is there anyone else that would like to speak on that proposal for amendment?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 544 The Honourable Gavoka, you may reply.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Yes, Madam Chair, I think I have expressed our serious concern.

Let the other side know, we will scrutinise this very, very closely.
Overseas travel is too much.

We should start here now by decreasing this, Madam Chair.

It can be fully funded by the private sector in a big way.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Viliame Gavoka and the question is, that Head 16-3-1 be decreased by $50,000 in respect of SEG 7 - ICT Meeting.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you Honourable Members.

The Parliament will now vote on Head No.

16, the question is that the amount of Head 16 - Ministry of Communications be approved?

Does any Member oppose the motion?

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 28 14 6 Head 16 agreed to.

Head No.

17 – Ministry of Civil Service.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head No.

17 is now up for debate and we will look at Programme 1, Activity 1 - General Administration.

Does anyone have any comment on this?


Honourable Salote Radrodro, you have the floor.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, in regards to Head 17-1 -1, I am compelled to ask this question in view of earlier request that I had made in this House and also I had submitted written request to the Honourable Minister for Finance.
I had requested for the Annual Corporate Plan for the Summary of Expenditure on all items under Requisition and 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 545 also on the Civil Service Plan and until to date, we still have not received any copies of that.

So, we would like to verify the progress that had been mentioned about the Civil Service Reform, in terms of the personnel.

Also, I would like to highlight our concern in the absence of any numbers being mentioned and also the levels.
If we look at the Estimate right at the top, it says, “a system to support good governance” and good governance, principles of good governance requires transparency and accountability.

Therefore, I am again, putting it into the House the importance of having the numbers of staff to be able to support this.

How can we make, you know to justify the work carried out, if we do not have the numbers?

We do not know the levels, particularly now when the Civil Service is a new Ministry.
Looking at the Personal Emoluments, how can you justify all that Personal Emoluments under Head 17-1-1, when we do not have the numbers and also just following from the comments raised by Mr. Gavoka, as good custodian of taxpayers money, it is important that we ensure that this money is used according to the purpose that it is been given for but the fact that there is no numbers, no staff levels, how can he justify the payments of all the Personal Emoluments budget allocation under that item?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please, I would just like to remind Honourable Members that Annual Corporate Plans and any other plans that belongs to the Ministries are available to you.

You do not have to come through Parliament to get that.

If you need an Annual Corporate Plan from the Public Service Commission, then you can always access it from them directly.

Anyway, you have not made any proposal for increase, decrease or remains, thank you for your comments anyway.

HON.

S.V.
HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, I believe that is important that an explanation be given so that to justify whether we are going to go for an increase or a decrease but he has not offered any explanation to justify the budget allocation been given to that item.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You are talking about the Personal Emoluments?

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Yes, and I move that it be decreased or it be relooked at and to be able to do that effectively, we need to know how many.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister, you have already answered that.

Any other comments; Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, just a request to the Honourable Minister, if you could inform the House, how much will be allocated to the three main divisions as per the information provided in the Explanatory Note of the Budget?
The three main divisions being the Policy Division, Training Division and the Corporate Services Division and the budget is only concentrating on the general division.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 546 HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, they are the key divisions within the actual Ministry so the money will be allocated accordingly.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments?

Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

HON.

DR. B.C.


PRASAD.- Madam Chair, one of the reasons why we are going to vote against this whole Head is what exactly has been said by Honourable Salote Radrodro, that we have not seen any plan, any detailed explanation of why we need to create a Ministry of Civil Service when we have the Public Service Commission under the Constitution.
We had the Secretariat of the Commission, the Commission provided that kind of independence in the appointment, promotion of civil servants, and what we are going to do with this Ministry of Public Service, Madam Chair, is politicise the Civil Service in a way that we have never seen in the history of this country.

And, this is one of the lousiest legacies under the 2013 Constitution that this Government would be able to leave.
This is why I think that this allocation of $5.8 million under this whole Head makes no sense.

We were told that the World Bank is going to assist in the Reform.

We have not been told of any progress, we have not been told what other plans and what is going to be involved?

What will be the relationship with the Ministers of different ministries when the Constitution already says that they will have the ultimate power through the Permanent Secretaries to determine everything in their ministry?
I mean we would rather have had the Public Service Commission which could assist all the different ministries to bring some kind of independence in the way in which civil servants would be appointed and promoted, and we can already see the rot that is setting in because there is no oversight body to look at promotions and appointments to make sure what the Government is saying that we need military per se in the Civil Service.

Yes, we agree, but how are we going to determine that?
Having the Ministry of Public Service, Madam Chair, is really going to be a waste of time and at some point we will come back and realise that it was a mistake.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Your comments are noted.

The comments should have come during the original Budget Address.

Right now we are looking at the appropriations made under each SEG that we have here under Activity 1, Programme 1 of the Civil Service.

Does anyone have anymore?

HON.

S.V.


RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister explain the allocation being given to the Graduate Trainee Personnel on $122,169 and I am moving that that be removed.

Being a central agency, now that you are making this new Civil Service Ministry then how do you justify graduate trainee in that Central Agency?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Are you moving an amendment to that?

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Yes, Madam Chair, that it be taken away.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, fill the form.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 547 Any other comments on Activity 1?

Thank you, there is only one proposal for amendment and we will await the form to be filled.

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Madam Chair, can I move a motion?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which motion?

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Under the whole Head – Head 17?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head 17, all right.

HON.

S.D.
HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- My motion, Madam Chair, is actually under Order 100 (2) of the Standing Order that the whole Budget under Head 17 be decreased by $5.8 million.

(Chorus of interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Draunidalo, you have a comment to make?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you, Madam Chair, I have a comment on Head 17.
As I checked the Constitution there is the provisions we know Sections 125 and 126 have to do with the Public Service Commission which the Minister has already elaborated on to some extent.

That will remain, as he has explained yesterday.

There is also the Constitutional Office of the Permanent Secretaries at Section 127.

Madam Chair, I just hope that this Head 17 does not give birth to a Ministry that is going to have overlapping powers or ones that conflict with Section 127 of the Constitution.
If you go through it, Madam Chair, and I will go through it very briefly; “(1) There is established within each ministry the office of a permanent secretary, (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) which is an office in the public office.

Each ministry is to be under the administration of a permanent secretary, and any department of Government that is not part of any ministry shall be under the administration of the permanent secretary responsible for the Office of the Prime Minister.
The permanent secretary of a ministry is responsible to the Minister concerned for the efficient, effective and economical management of the ministry or any department under the ministry.

The Public Service Commission, with the agreement of the Prime Minister may at any time re-assign one of more permanent secretaries amongst the various ministries of the State.

A permanent secretary may resign from office by giving notice to the Public Service Commission.
A permanent secretary shall be entitled to such remuneration as determined by the Public Service Commission following the agreement of the Prime Minister, and any such remuneration must not be varied to their disadvantage, except as part of an overall austerity reduction similarly applicable to all officers of the State.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 548 (7) (8) The permanent secretary of each ministry shall have the authority be the authority to appoint, remove and institute disciplinary action against all staff of the ministry, with the agreement of the Minister responsible for the ministry.
The permanent secretary of each ministry with the agreement of the Minister responsible for the ministry, has the authority to determine all matters pertaining to the employment of all staff in the ministry including; (a) (b) (c) (d) the terms and conditions of employment; the qualification requirements for appointment and the process to be followed for appointment, which must be an open, transparent and competitive selection process based on merit; the salaries, benefits and allowances payable in accordance with its budget as approved by Parliament; and the total establishment of the total number of staff that are required to be appointed in accordance with the budget as approved by Parliament.” I am just wondering, Madam Chair, in that context that is quite thorough there in Section 127.
What exactly this Ministry under Head 17 is proposed to do - overlap those powers, conflict with it or what?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much for relaying to us the Constitution as it affects the Ministry of Civil Service.

Right now we are looking at the Budget and with the information that you have just read maybe it would help in deciding on whether to say “yes” or “no” to the vote that we are going to have.

So, there being no other comments we will now vote.
The Honourable Karavaki would like to speak further on this proposal.

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Thank you Madam Chair.

I believe it is very obvious talking about this Head that this Ministry should not be set up at all.

The reason is this, there is no proper coordination or authority given to this Ministry on the other ministries.
The Constitution that has just been read that all permanent secretaries can decide on the terms and conditions of their workers, which means, Madam Chair, that the pay of different workers in different ministries, the permanent secretaries can decide themselves on the level that they should pay their workers.

There is no coordination over here because the Constitution gives them the power to do that and bringing this does not provide any coordination at all.
That was with the Public Service Commission and is independent.

That is why I am saying that we should decrease by $5.8 million.

Basically it means that this Ministry should be scrapped, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone like to speak on that?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you Madam Chair.

Let me just explain a few things to the other side of the House (this is long overdue).
One of the key characteristics in any organisation is centralisation and decentralisation - what needs to be centralised and what needs to be decentralised?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 549 Madam Chair, this is a simple thing about managing change.

This is change management.

Change management, Madam Chair, is about conditions and processes.

When external conditions change, internal processes, structures, systems and procedures change.

(Chorus of Interjections) HON.


A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- You read that document so you understand it.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- We need to be relevant, Madam Chairperson.

Yesterday I talked about the dynamics of development.

(Chorus of Interjections) They are trying to portray political control, Madam Chair.
I once again wish to assure the House that in the absence of information, there are processes and systems in place in Government, and there are accountable officers and the Permanent Secretaries are the principal accountable officers in any Ministry.

They are accountable to all these, Madam Chair.

But one of the key characteristics of this side of the House is pragmatism.

This is long overdue, this is about managing change.
Madam Chair, I do not know what else to say and the Honourable Leader of the NFP, being an economist, he knows very well what I am talking about.

The external processes are dictated by the political environment, economic environment, information and technology is a driver for change.

These things all dictate it, we relook at the way we do business and this is about bringing efficiency into Government.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, change is alright, but you must do it according to the law.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Exactly.

(Chorus of Interjections) HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- According to the law.

Take for example, he changed Government by committing treason that is wrong.

(Laughter) That is why you are here.

You are here because you committed treason and that is not according to the law.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBER.- Forget the past.


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 550 (Laughter) HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- That is according to the law and the past will hurt you, remember that.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, noted.

(Chorus of Interjection) HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- That is fair enough, we do it, there is a law, and here the whole point, Madam Chair, is that under Standing Order 100 you can do three things - increase, decrease or simply take it all out, and that is the substance of this proposal.

We take it out because of two basic reasons, one, because it conflicts with the law, it conflicts with the constitution, we do not want to end up with the situation where we come back and said, “Look that is totally unlawful”.
I know that you are familiar with doing unlawful things.

(Laughter) You are here unlawfully and you have not being punished yet, you wait for that.

(Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- If you are saying that they are here unlawfully, then everyone is here unlawfully.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- The second reason, Madam Chair, is that the reason why we want to take it out is because this has been established specifically for reform and we do not know anything about this reform.

We need the numbers.


Honourable Salote Radrodro said, “We need the numbers”.

We need the plan, before we can vote and deliberate on it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, I had already addressed this issue in the Budget Address and we have already addressed this through various other questions that were asked previously.
I heard when the Honourable Minister for Agriculture stood up, the Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad said “Oh, he can appoint his relatives”.

It is not about that.

And Honourable Draunidalo holds up the blue book when it suits her and every other time, it is our Constitution as opposed to everyone’s Constitution.

There is no way, that the creation of this Ministry or tomorrow if we created a Ministry of Science or Ministry of Mangroves that will breach the Constitution.
The Constitution does not set out how many ministries we can have nor does the setting up of the Ministry of Civil Service breach the Constitution.

They are assuming it will breach the Constitution, they obviously can see the future.

If you read the introduction… 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 551 HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- We can see the future!

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Wonderful, Parofita!


If you see the introduction of this, it says, “Coordinates central training programmes, necessary to facilitate the upskilling of civil servants.” They are the two key functions and I have highlighted in the Budget Address, Madam Chair, that all of these matters have already been addressed.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am compelled to speak again.


I like what the Honourable Minister for Agriculture said, change is important, but change just for the sake of change is irrelevant.

(Chorus of Interjections) Even if one were to agree with the Honourable and learned Attorney General that it does not conflict with the Constitution or it does not breach the Constitution, Madam Chair, I think the important point that I was trying to make is, in the Constitution, you are giving the powers to the permanent secretaries.
Honourable Draunidalo just read the powers that the Permanent Secretaries will have, and they will make decisions on promotions, recruitments with the agreement of the relevant Minister.

Once you do that, you are already decentralising the appointments, the handling of public servants to different Ministries.

The Honourable Minister is right, decentralisation has already taken place as per the Constitution.

So there is no debate about decentralisation.


What is of concern, Madam Chair, and what we have not been told very clearly, what exactly will this Ministry of Public Service do, how will they relate to the Permanent Secretaries, how will the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Public Service relate to the Permanent Secretary of a particular Ministry?

What kind of powers will they have?

I think it is about conflict of interest, Madam Chair.
It is about managing the relationships and what we are saying is, it is really useless to actually set up this Ministry.

I know you can set up any Ministry that is not a problem, but this Ministry, in particular, when you have a Public Service Commission which is an independent body, which had the secretariat, which was responsible for making independent decisions, why abolish that?

Why change that?

You can keep the Public Service Commission.


Let them work through the Public Service Commission and with different Ministries and Ministers and make sure that the public service reform is undertaken.

That is why I think this side of the House, we really do not see any reason or any logic behind setting up this Ministry.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

I think we have enough information where we can make a decision on when to vote.
We seem to be repeating things that had been said already and I do not see anything new.

The Ministry of Civil Service has been established, there is nothing else we can do about it.

But we are looking at budget right now, we are looking 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 552 at the appropriations made to this budget and there is a proposal for an amendment.

I will now give the Right of reply to the Honourable Karavaki before we put this motion to vote.

HON.

S.D.
HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thought they we were going ahead to vote.

I just say another thing.

The Permanent Secretaries, obviously under the Constitution will be appointed by the PSC.

Now, when they come to their ministries because they are supposed to be independent, the Constitution requires them to obtain the agreement of the Minister.
Now there is a conflict there, the conflict there because the Minister needs to dictate whatever the views of the Government to be carried out by the Permanent Secretaries.

Now we are saying, that this is not really necessary to set this up because the appointment made by the Public Service Commission is there, he goes there and carries out and even if he applies the terms and conditions, he or she is answerable to the Public Service Commission.
Now this a new thing that has been brought in for the Permanent Secretary to be subjected to the Minister, their independence have totally been removed here.

That is why I need to add that, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.

Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Semesa Karavaki.

The question is, that Head 17 be decreased by $5.8 million in respect of Head 17, the whole Head.

Question on proposed amendment put.


Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 26 6 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that Head 17-1-1-1 be left out of Head 17 - Graduate Trainee Personal Emolument.

I invite Honourable Salote Radrodro to speak on this proposal.

HON.

S.V.
HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair, but if I can just mention again the motion by Honourable Karavaki, mine is within that one.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, that one has been defeated.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, you still want me to present on that one?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Do you want to withdraw the amendment?

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, actually I had put that down, the removal of the Graduate Trainee Programme due to the fact that ….
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 553 HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- (Chorus of Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Radrodro, do you want to withdraw this amendment?

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, this is Graduate Trainee and I am looking at it in terms of the overall Civil Service Reform.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- No, Honourable Radrodro.

Can you please just talk on the Graduate Trainee, just on that Sub-Head so that we can vote on that sub-head but not on the whole thing.

HON.

S.V.
HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, not on the whole?

Yes, I will maintain that, we remove that.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that, Head 17-1-1 which is Graduate Trainee Personal Emolument be left out of Head 17.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 27 5 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will now vote on Head 17 and the question is that the amount of Head 17 – Ministry of Civil Service be approved, does any Member oppose the Motion?

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBER.- Yes.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, just before we vote on Head 17, after listening to the debate that just happened, just a final question to the Honourable Minister for ….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which Head?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Still on Head 17.


We understand the idea in regards to organisational development.

I think, the Honourable Usamate will understand and could teach 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 554 us more on that, on how organisations develop as he is an OD practitioner.

The whole idea for creating this Ministry is to reform – Civil Sector Reform.

The question to the Honourable Minister is, after the Reform, will you close down this Ministry or will it be ongoing?

HON.
HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBER.- Reform the Reform.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister for Finance Public Enterprise, Public Service and Communication, the onus is on you to respond.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, this matter has already been elucidated to the extent… MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I thought so.

Thank you.

The Parliament will now vote on Head 17.

The question is that the amount for Head 17 – Ministry of Civil Service be approved.

Does any Member opposed the motion?

Question put.


Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 28 16 4 Head 17 agreed to.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister for Finance, Public Enterprises, Public Service and Communications you want to have the floor.

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, as was raised correctly by Honourable Bulitavu yesterday that in the Schedule to the Appropriation Bill, Head 17 which we had just voted on and which has been approved for the Ministry of Civil Service, it actually incorrectly says “Public Service Commission” which as we already know is under the Independent Commissions which is in Head 13.
So as provided for under Standing Order 100 (8) we believe that this is the time to make that amendment to the particular Schedule in the Appropriation Bill and in Schedule 1, Head 17 should read as we have just approved ‘Ministry of Civil Service’, if I could move that, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, does anyone second that motion?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, I beg to second the motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to speak on the motion?
There being none, we will vote on the motion.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 555 HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, I would like to thank once again, Honourable Bulitavu for bringing this to our attention, that we have just voted on Head 17 which is Ministry of Civil Service and the Appropriation Bill under Schedule 1 incorrectly states “Public Service Commission”, it should read “Ministry of Civil Service”.
As we know that Public Service Commission is already in Head 13, this is just a typographical error so we would like to seek under Standing Order 100 (8) to have that amendment done now because if you read the procedure on the Appropriation Bill during the Committee of Supply, it says that you can essentially just vote on the figures itself as opposed to the wordings.
So we seek this opportunity now, to essentially correct the typographical error then in Schedule 1, Head 17 should read “Ministry of Civil Service”.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.-Thank you.

The typographical error that was made, we want to correct, it is clear now?

Proposed amendment agreed to unanimously.

Head 18 - Ministry of Rural and Maritime Development and Natural Disaster Management MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any comments on Activity 1?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 2?

HON.


RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Head 18-1-1-1, would the Honourable Minister for Finance explain the $164,605 decrease in the Personal Emolument Allocation?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the Honourable Member for the question.


We in the Ministry, as consistent with the directive of the Public Service Commission (PSC) had looked into ways in which we could economise within the Ministry and we have done some of our restructures within and thus the reduction in the number of personnel, and of course as reflected in the Budget.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.


BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, Head 17-1-1-10, pursuant to Standing Order 100 (2), I move without notice that Head 17, SEG 10 be increased in respect to the Committee on Better Utilisation of Lands (CBUL) to $9 million.
Madam Chair, given the integral role of CBUL to subsidise the lease payments to individual landowners and encourages prospective farmers, given also that this year, at least 12,000 young people will be added to the job market and given the comments by the Honourable Minister for Agriculture in this House yesterday, that in response to unemployment or sending young people to farm.

I suggest that Government increase the allocation to entice the new farmers and give farming families these good returns.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 556 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please fill in the form.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, if I can just clarify SEG 10 of 18- 1-1 before we consider the motion any further.

Increase in CBUL allocation is welcome but it cannot be done here because the allocation for CBUL is determined by TLTB, according to the number of leases that have been renewed.
And, TLTB, in every six months they will give the Ministry the number of leases and based on the four per cent increase in subsidy, that is where this is worked out.

This allocation is actually given by TLTB based on the number of leases for next year.

For the information of this august House, Madam Chair, for this allocation, we have just paid last week the second payment and we have about $500,000 still with the Ministry.
$100,000 is given to TLTB for their administrative costs and there are some mismatch in the number of leases, thus the savings.

Even this year, we have a savings of about $500,000.

So, let me assure the House that the increase is welcome but it is TLTB that determines the amount and according to them, this is sufficient for next year.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Bulitavu, would you like to still maintain your proposed amendment?

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, the difficulty that TLTB will determine from the formula that has to be applied and from the leases that are to be renewed.

In regards to that, Madam Chair….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you still maintain the amendment, as proposed?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, if I can just assist the Honourable Bulitavu again here.
For the information of this august House, CBUL was established in 2008 and there was a recent agreement in Cabinet just to carry it through to 2016.

CBUL is due for review in 2016 and it will be brought into this august House and probably that is where your concern lies and it can be considered then because you are talking about the lease rental and the subsidies that comes with it.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, I take that assurance, by 2016 the review will be done, so I withdraw my motion.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments on Programme 1, Activity 1.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Madam Chair, on SEG 7, it should be removed in respect to the Government Roadshow.

Have you got that, Madam Chair?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- So, you want the Government Roadshow to be removed?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 557 HON.

RO T.V.
RO T.V.

KEPA.- Yes, because what happens here is that, when Government goes on these Roadshows, what we have found out is that, part of this Roadshow is, they disseminate propaganda and anti-opposition materials.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Oh!

(Chorus of interjections) HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- So, we want that amendment, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you want to move a motion to that effect?

HON.

RO T.V.
HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- For us, we have to get a permit to go out and visit our constituencies but they make this legal and they do it during the Roadshow.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- So, would you like to move a motion for the amendment?

You will speak further on this.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Am I allowed to speak on this?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments on that Activity 1?

HON.

RATU S.V.
HON.

RATU S.V.

NANOVO.- Head 18-2-1, SEG 10, can the honourable Minister explain why there is a new allocation of project preparatory work with the budget of $0.5 million and to justify the types of work that will be carried out under this allocation?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, Pillar 7 of the People’s Charter is about integrated rural development at the Divisional level.
When we talk about integrated rural development framework, Madam Chair, it is not only about the key programmes in the Ministry responsible for Rural Development.

You would see consistent in the allocations that has been given to the Commissioners, we have health centres under the Ministry for Rural Development.

We have even police posts being constructed under the Ministry for Rural Development.
Madam Chair, government agencies being cost centres as well, one of the difficulties that the Ministry is facing is when it comes to fees, for example lands.

If the survey needs to be done, then we have to pay for the surveyors and the valuers to come and do the work for us.

It is not free from government agencies, even, Madam Chair.

That is why if we are to meet the requirements and timelines, we need to have this factored into the Budget so that we can facilitate the projects, Madam Chair.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thanks very much, any more comments?

HON.

RATU S.V.

MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chair, Head 18-2-2, SEG 8.

Can the Honourable Minister explain the non-appearance of the allocation of the Nacula Health Centre in Yasawa in the 2016 Budget, as it appeared under SEG 10 in the 2015 Budget?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 558 HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, this is about capital construction and that is why it is appearing under SEG 8 of Head 18, Programme 2, Activity 2 of the Ministry’s allocation.

The Honourable and Learned Attorney-General had indicated the difficulties, particularly in the preparatory work and thus, this is a rollover project from the previous year but it is appearing at SEG 8 as capital construction.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments?

HON.

RATU S.V.
HON.

RATU S.V.

MATANITOBUA.- In SEG 8, can the Honourable Minister justifies the $750,000 increase in the allocation of relocation of Nacula Health Centre in consideration of its reappearing in the Budget Estimate?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, usually when it comes to project allocations, the initial cost tagged on to the projects are done by rough estimations but when the full scoping is done, then we know the actual costs.
That is why you will see that initially, there was a rough estimation of how much the project will cost, based on costing of materials then, but now, this is the most recent and based on the technical assessments that have been carried out as well.

That is why you will see the increase in the allocation.
However, I must assure this august House as well, Madam Chair, that we are doing our best when it comes to the scrutinisation and the elimination, particularly at the Divisional Development Board level to ensure that all the scoping are completed before we endorse it and recommend it for financing.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any further comments, Honourable Matanitobua.

HON.

RATU S.V.
HON.

RATU S.V.

MATANITOBUA.- In SEG 8, can the Honourable Minister justify the $750,000 increase in the allocation of relocation of Nacula Health Centre in consideration of its reappearing in the Budget Estimate?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chairperson, I think I have already explained that earlier but for the benefit of the Honourable Matanitobua, I have talked about the costing by the various agencies, nothing is coming free now from the Ministry for Infrastructure and Transport, nothing is coming free from Lands Department.

So, when we get the technical expertise from these Ministries, we have to foot the costs, and that is why this allocation under SEG 10.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any further comments?


HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chairperson, the reason why I follow up this question is regarding the drought that affects the Western Division the preparatory work, does it consist the surveys of bore holes in those various areas in the Western Division?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 559 HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chairperson, I will clarify to the House that I deal with the allocation on emergency water but rural water comes under the Ministry for Infrastructure, but it does not mean that we do not coordinate.
You would hear from the Budget’s Address by the Honourable Finance Minister last week, that there is now allocation in the Ministry on rain water harvesting and of course, an allocation to cover the areas that badly need assistance, where there is no water reticulation systems, so that is the arrangement currently and of course, we also have our database.

We are mapping out all the vulnerabilities in Fiji, that is the responsibility that we undertake in my Ministry.
We will coordinate with the relevant agencies that are responsible for the allocations to ensure that we are proactive in terms of providing the needs to the people in those areas.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any further comments, Programme 2, Activity 3, no comments, Programme 2, Activity 4, do you have any comment?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Yes, sorry for standing up late.

Programme 2, Activity 3 - in regards to the Commissioner Northern.
We see the reappearance of the Kubulau Government Station that was in last year’s budget, but has reappeared again in this year and I also see in SEG 10, government is always talking about developing the Northern Division, there are plenty projects that will be done there.
Tawake Nursing Station, Seaqaqa Health Centre, construction of duplex quarters in Naduri Health Centre, construction of quarters at Nabouwalu Hospital, all come under requisition and whether government will actually realise these projects, given this allocation because the Northern Division badly needs this development.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Are you proposing an increase or decrease of all these appropriation to the different projects?

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- I will let the Honourable Minister answer first then after that, I will propose the… MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I think the answer is already here that they will be there, so what is your proposal?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- It is under ‘R’ for Kubulau because last year it was also under ‘R’ it did not happen.
So, again most of the projects that have been announced for the Northern Division have been listed under ‘R’ the likelihood of it eventuating or happening, whether it will not reappear next year in the 2017 budget, there is a likelihood.

I need an assurance first from the honourable Minister because the people in the North are waiting for this development to take place.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chairperson, I think there is a lot of allocation going to the North but let me assure the Honourable Member that Kubulau Government Station Phase 1 has already been completed.

If you go to Kubulau today, the office facility is already in place.
But we cannot move in the District Officer without the quarters, and of course, he needs to come with the support staff as well; a Clerical Officer and 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 560 a Driver/Caretaker.

They will need, particularly for the Clerical Officer and the District Officer they will need quarters and this is Phase 2, Madam Chairperson thus the rollover.

This is a rollover programme.


Madam Chairperson, if you go to Tawake, [LAUGHTER] the village has expanded over the years, but the problem that we face in Tawake, the nursing quarters is right in the middle of the village now.

That has to be relocated and thus the need for us to move but it is under ‘R’ simply because of accountability.

We have to submit acquittals for the work that have been previously done and then we will be given the allocation.
But of course, we want to have this project done and we assure the House that we will make sure that we do the necessary acquittals and of course, get the funding from Government.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I think we all know now that all projects – capital projects that are under ‘R’, we know the reasons for it.

I hope you will not continue to ask the same question and all these capital projects, especially.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Can we clarify that.


We all know that the capital projects come under ‘R’ it is for the people.

It is a reasonable question because people normally the turaga ni koros, mata ni tikinas, they normally go to the Provincial Administrators and the Commission Northern to go and ask what is the progress of this, why the work has stopped, why this and that is that, it is coming the materials, we are all ordering but what is happening?
The people want to see on the ground, the activities on the ground, they do not know ‘R’.

They are listening on television now they will know ‘R’… (Laughter) … because most of these people in Tawake in Kubulau they are not in access to television.

See!

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, everybody know ‘R’ now.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chairperson, I cannot help but just say few words on ‘R’.
I think you are right that for capital projects and for projects that maybe still in progress are understandable but what we have seen in this budget, is a lot of ‘R’ which should not be ‘R” simply because of poor planning, proper analysis some of the ‘R’ shows that the Ministries have actually not put in a proper plan.
When you are asking for a budget, you make a submission to the Ministry of Finance and I think the Ministry of Finance might have been generous to some of the Ministries by giving them the fund and putting it under ‘R’.

But it also shows poor planning and poor projection of what each Ministry want to do in the following year.

So, there is an element of logic to ask why some of the allocation are in ‘R’.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments, Honourable Vadei.

HON.
HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Just to add on to that issue, Madam Chairperson, when the budget is under ‘R’ if you go to Nairai now, the incompletion of that Jetty was due to ‘R’.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 561 (Laughter) They skip that ‘R’ budget to other development projects that needs to be completed and also that ‘R’ it was discussed last year that they are upgrading from Gau, as mentioned by the Assistant Minister, you can see the road condition in Gau still pathetic and the quality of the work is poor workmanship because of ‘R’.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, ‘R’ is very clear now.

Any other comments?
Any other comments?

Thank you, we will go on to Programme 2 - Activity 4.

Honourable Gavoka?

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, this one is very dear to me.

Would the Honourable Minister explain the new inclusion of the allocation for Housing Assistance of former Emperor Gold Mining employees under Special Expenditure?

That is 18-4-1 (SEG 7).

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We are looking at 18-2.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Are we still on 2?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, we still on 18-2-4.


We will come back to that, Honourable Gavoka.

HON.

RATU S.V.

NANOVO.- Madam Chair, Head 18-2, can the Honourable Minister explain the increase in wages under allocation for government wage earners?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you want it to increase or decrease?

HON.

RATU S.V.

NANOVO.- Increase.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Why the increase?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

As I have explained earlier, we have done some reforms within.
We have reduced our established staff in the headquarters but this is consistent in most Ministries now.

There is a lot of demand now for technical people.

For example, in the Ministry for Rural Development and thus the increase now in the Wage Earners is, we have six Grade ‘A’ Carpenters.

One is currently employed in Bouma Village right now as we speak, and we have decentralised this to the four Commissioners and we keep a few in the Ministry’s headquarters.
The simple reason, Madam Chair, communities when they apply for rural housing, they are supposed to find their own carpenter to do the construction but in some cases, they do not have any carpenters available.

Therefore, Government is again providing the assistance.

We are buying additional vehicles as well, particularly in terms of disaster management.

When we have a vehicle, we need an additional driver.

We have got a new forklift.


We need a specialised forklift driver and that is why you will see the increase more on Government Wage Earners (GWEs).

Thank you, Madam Chair.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 562 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments?

Activity 4, Programme 2.

No, let us move on to Programme 3, Activity 1 .

Do you have any comments?

Thank you.

We will go on to Programme 4, Activity 1.

Honourable Gavoka?

HON.

V.R.


GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, could the honourable Minister explain the new inclusion of the allocation for Housing Assistance to the former Emperor Gold Mining employees under Special Expenditure?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


In Rural Development under the Rural Housing Unit, we do housing assistance to our rural dwellers and that is an additional programme on Poverty Alleviation and under that Programme, we also provide housing for the poor people, apart from the rural housing allocation where people are required to pay one-third.

This is a special request to Government given the socio economic conditions in which these 12 families, I believe, are in.
They have exhausted all avenues and no one is assisting and thus they have raised this with Government and Government has decided and hopefully, we will reside them permanently in an area and that is why this allocation is appearing under the Rural Housing Scheme, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any further comment on Activity 1, Programme 4?

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, if I could move a motion on this.
That Head 18-4-1(SEG7) be increased in the Housing Assistance to the Vatukoula people by $400,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, fill the form.

Let us move on to Programme 5, Activity 1, do you have any comments in that?

We will come back to the amendments later.

HON.

RATU.

I.D.
HON.

RATU.

I.D.

TIKOCA- Madam Chair, given the approval for construction of houses in rural areas, has that been approved by the normal procedures or it is been done by draftsman and given the approval to build because those are houses that are going to be thrown out in any cyclone.

Hence, we need to have approval, no different from the urban areas.

Please can the honourable Minister answer that?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which activity and which SEG you are referring to?

HON.

RATU.

I.D.
HON.

RATU.

I.D.

TIKOCA.- Last Activity, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 1, Programme 5, SEG 10?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Yes.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the Honourable Member for the question.


The honourable Minister for Housing has already indicated earlier that there is a plan in government to bring all the housing agencies together, because there is allocation as well under the Local Government, in Rural Development and of course, Housing Authority and other agencies.
However, let me assure the Honourable 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 563 Member and this august House that all Rural Housing Schemes are approved by the Rural Local Authority.

We do not construct any house, there are standards.

The Honourable Member knows it very well, being a former Commissioner [INTERJECTIONS] and we still maintain it to date but this is one of the key challenge that we have as well and hopefully, it can be regulated for those that build in rural areas at least.
They must have a minimum standard for safety reasons, so that we can reduce on the level of risks, particularly we being in a cyclone prone area but we still maintain that, Madam Chair, and it is approved by the Rural Local Authority.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Activity 2, SEG 7, can the Honourable Minister explain….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which Activity?

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- 18-2-2-7.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Are we going back.?

HON.


RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Yes, Madam Chair, because this question on SEG 7 is relevant to all the Commissioners.

I ask the honourable Minister, in regards to the Community Capacity Building of $20,000 and Administrative Expenses of $30,000, these applies to all the Commissioners.

Can we have an explanation, please?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


Thank you, Honourable Member, this is a very good question.

When we are talking about development, we need development to be sustainable and for development to be sustainable, we need to invest in our people.

This programme is not new.

The first of the Permanent Secretary that attended this programme in Iran is the current PS for iTaukei Affairs, Mr Savenaca Kaunisela.
On his return, there was a syllabus developed, a training package developed and we have continued to undertake this community capacity building programme.

In 2007 and 2008, Madam Chair, I believe it was with the Ministry for Health, but now it has been transferred back to Rural Development, simply because when it was with Health, the focus was on healthy living, and they have sort of neglected the other components of development.
What are the aims of Community Capacity Building, the Honourable Tikoca would know very well.

One of the challenges in Rural Development is the constant changing of the Mata ni Tikinas, Turaga ni Koros’ and the Advisory Councillors.

Whenever they have meetings, they decide to change somebody they change it and that is why we have this because whenever they come in, they are the extension arm of Government.
So, they need to be given some training to understand government system, processors and how to do projects.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 564 Also there is an allocation, Madam Chair, under this Programme where we train them to be training the other communities, particularly when it comes to raising project proposals.

That is why we have this Community Capacity Building allocation under the four respective commissioners.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- On Head 18-5-1-10 – there is an amount there of $2 million for Climate Change Mitigation.

Can the Honourable Minister explain what does this refer to involve and justification for why should it be there?

In my feeling, it should be under Environment, and the progress of this programme.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, again it is a good question but you cannot isolate climate change from disaster.
Climate change causes hazards, when they become hazards, they come under the control of the Minister responsible for disaster.

Madam Chair, it is not only climate change as it appears, it is climate change and disaster reduction funding.

This is about the proactive measures taken by Government to reduce the level of risks.

Now we are focusing on reducing risk levels rather than post-disaster management, and that is why this allocation is here.
What we are trying to do under this allocation, Madam Char, for example the Bau seawall.

This is one of the projects that was funded from this because we would rather put up a seawall than relocating the whole Bau Island.

Phase three for Bau is due and the technical work has been done and that will be considered for next year.

The relocation of villages - Vunidogoloa was relocated out of this funding.
So before the changes in climatic conditions destroy our people, we are looking at reducing the risk level, transferring it or even mitigating our managing and that is the allocation.

But again the most important this is, climate change and disaster cannot be separated but they need to be considered together.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, I was going to propose a motion because climate change is very important.

There must be a specific Ministry that looks after it.
I am looking especially at the interim measure that it should go to environment.

My motion would be to take this out, to remove that Climate Change Mitigation and put it in the proper Ministry.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- The motion is to remove ….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You will speak on it again later.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Yes, if that can be noted.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Vadei you have the floor.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 565 HON.
A.T. VADEI.- I was just about to ask the same issue regarding the climate change in relation to the Eastern Division also.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Okay, Honourable Prem Singh.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Madam Chair, this is on SEG 10 – Disaster Rehabilitation Fund.

I agree with the Honourable Minister when he said that environment and Disaster Rehabilitation Fund be worked out together, but when this budget was being formulated, I believe, the drought that is there had not set in.
So, $1 million has been allocated towards Disaster Rehabilitation Fund, on the other hand, Climate Change Mitigation has been allocated $2 million.

One would have thought that the environmental levy is more than sufficient to cover for Climate Change Mitigation.

Madam Chair, we have a pro-longed drought, there must be comprehensive rehabilitation packages for our agricultural sector for rehabilitation of crops, livestock in the non-sugar sector so that livelihoods of our people can be sustained.
Therefore, Madam Chair, I move a motion pursuant to Standing Orders 100 (2) that Head 18-5-1-10 in respect of Disaster Rehabilitation Fund be increased to $10 million to cater for the drought in the Western and Northern Divisions.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, the issue of climate change, I certainly support what the Honourable Member had said about establishing a Ministry of its own because it is a huge massive programme.
The Honourable Prime Minister has taken a lot of support to go down to funds to actually address this.

The issue is, do we have an allocation of actually re-allocating our own people - the Rewa Delta, the whole Suva that you are residing in, and they are living in mangroves.

(Laughter) Do not laugh!

(Laughter) Do you have a land that you can provide like that with humbleness and humility?

You do not.

That is important.


Now, we should see that this Ministry looks after its own people because the Rewa Delta and the Southern Tailevu is actually submerging.

Have you done that?

And all other islands too and Kadavu will be too.


So, Madam Chair, please can I ask the Honourable Minister, is there an allocation to send people to other areas when that happens rather than telling the whole world that I am the champion than start getting all the people from abroad to come and settle here when you cannot even settle your own.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 566 (Inaudible Interjections) HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, let me assure the Honourable Member that Vuci is under consideration already and this will be at the discretion of the Mitigation Committee under the National Disaster Council.

This relocation, let me again clarify to the Honourable Nawaikula and the Honourable Prem Singh, is based on the stage in which these villages are in.
It is no longer symptoms now, they are already in the hazard stage and that is why the allocation is under the Minister responsible for disaster.

For drought and the allocation on disaster response, this allocation is provided too in the budget every year and it is under the Prime Minister’s Trust.

Usually this fund is then shifted to the Prime Minister’s Trust.
This year we have utilized $1 million from the trust, in sending our people to Vanuatu and of course in looking after the disaster that we are in now.

The need far outweighs what we have now but we are looking at the allocations from within and that is how we are managing but the long term solution is, bringing water to this people.

Climate varies and no one can control the weather.

El Nino is just a cycle, it comes every four years and it will not be there for ever.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, Head 18-5-1-10 in regards to Climate Change Mitigation.

If the Honourable Minister could just make an assurance in regards to my concern in my reply to the President’s Address as to the effects of climate change in regards to Serea, whether that is in his $2 million allocation, as well as Wainawaqa.
Even though we are reassured by the Chairman of the Naitasiri Provincial Council, I need an assurance from the Honourable Minister for the people of Serea, Wainawaqa and other places also.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, I am not sure about Serea, but I will look into it.

I am aware of Wainawaqa, because a lot of my officers have already done the scoping.
However, the procedure is, once the demand or requests come from the communities, the engineers from the Ministry of Agriculture and the Land and Water Resource Management Unit will go and do the technical work (scoping), then that is passed onto the Mitigation Committee under the National Disaster Council (NDC) of which I am Chairman.

If the preparatory work has been done, then they are all given the due consideration, but I will look into this request in Serea.

Thank you, Madam Chair.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any further comments?

We will now move into the proposed amendments.

The first one, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Viliame Gavoka.

The question is that Head 18 be increased by $400,000 in respect of Head 18-4-1-7 - Housing Assistance - Former Gold Mine Employees.

I will ask the Honourable Gavoka to speak on that motion.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 567 HON.

V.R.
V.R.

GAVOKA.- Thank you Madam Chair.

This is a very sad story, it has been there for quite some time.

People who got into an industrial dispute with the company and it was not resolved for many years.

I believe some of them now are grandparents; when that happened they were still young men.

So, it was always sad going to Vatukoula and seeing them still sitting at their office and still on strike.
I am grateful to the Honourable Minister for including this to resolve this once and for all, but we just believe that it should be at a higher level hence my suggestion that we increase it by $400,000.

You know, mining, Madam Chair, as I have indicated here has huge potential in the West.

Vatukoula has been key to mining, especially gold and we need to close this chapter.
It still is there in Vatukoula, we need to close it and move on, but we need to do it properly and we believe by increasing this by $400,000, we will put it to closure so that we can move on, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, I am just wondering whether the increase from $146,000 to $400,000 - on what basis are you tagging the $400,000, do you have a number of houses.

HON.

V.R.
HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, I noticed that the number of people here is about 12 because I believe there is more than 12 who were involved.

So, this allocation could also include those who were not in this allocation.

There could be others who were affected, but who have just given up and gone home.

So, an allocation like this could also include them in what we are proposing.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to speak on that?

HON.
HON.

J.R. CAWAKI.- Madam Chair, I would like to shed some light and clarify on the allocation.

These are former Emperor Gold Mining employees who had gone on strike in 2006.

The Government with the company provided a fund - Vatukoula Welfare Fund in which they were given options.

These 12 families opted for rural housing so they provided the one third and this amount is for the two thirds from Government for them to have a house.

It is only for 12 families.

Thank you.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments on that.

No, would you like to speak in reply Honourable Gavoka?

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Excuse me there is another comment from the Honourable Minister for Employment.

HON.

CDR.

S.T.

KOROILAVESAU.- Madam Chair, my comment is basically on the issue of the figures that are given by Members that stand up to speak.
They should give some quantification on the amount that they are giving either increase or decreases and not just plucking figures out of thin air, consuming us in time in discussing these issues.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 568 HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- It is good that the Honourable Minister for Labour has raised that issue.

A good explanation too by the Assistant Minister for Rural Development.
The problem we are facing here on this side of the House for us to suggest an increase or decrease because the details of what is the existing project, like now we hear it is 12 families and one- third; what is the value of the house they are building?

What is the one-third from the two thirds here, whether it is sufficient for the 12 families?
It is all considering this figure then we do not really need to give them an increase, but the problem is that the details are not coming from that side that should allow this side of the House to suggest and scrutinise.

They are accountable to those figures not us.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you the fact still remains because there have been some recommendations to increase by $1 million, increase by $2 million just like that without any justification.
Please, Honourable Members, if you can have some justification to the figures that have been mentioned.

However, we are speaking on this particular motion and I would like Honourable Gavoka to speak in reply.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Thank you Madam Chair, I was coming from the position of what I know about Vatukoula.

I have very close family ties with the area.

I go there frequently and I saw these people sitting there.
I thought this was an attempt to resolve all those issues and I am grateful to the Honourable Cawaki for clarifying the position.

But echoing what my colleague the Honourable Bulitavu had indicated, Madam Chair, for two days we wrote to Government agencies to come and brief us in the Opposition office, only one came.

Some, Madam Chair, turned up at reception, got a phone call, turned back and went away.

We were here.
We were here.

I came all the way from Sigatoka to have two days with the Government ministries to brief us on these details.

Somehow they were fearful of talking to us so this is what held up the process.

If next year when we have a Budget, we will need two days with the Government ministries, civil servants and they should not be fearful of talking with us in the Opposition office.
We are getting all these ambiguity and all these talk of figures from thin air because the civil servants who wanted to come and meet with us did not turn up, and as I said, some turned back at our reception when they got a phone call and there we were.

So, please can we improve on this to make this a more meaningful and useful session for Parliament.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, can I clarify something?

The Darth Vader voice, please Star Wars.


Madam Chair, the point is, the Opposition needs to understand that they are not government.

This side is government, this side are the ministers.

Madam Chair, if they want to know about the budget they can ask the ministers.

The purpose of them calling the civil servants, we do not know what the purpose is, not just simply saying, “Why did you put this?” It is them putting their own spin on it, this is the reason.
[INTERJECTIONS] I would like to 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 569 know how many other Opposition parties in the past have been allowed the kind of access that they want with the civil servants.

[INTERJECTIONS] None, none!

Not in the manner … (Chorus of interjections) HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- …, not in the manner, Madam Chair.

(Chorus of Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Members, time is going, it is repetition.

(Chorus of interjections) HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair….


(Chorus of Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I feel like being a Speaker and stand up, but I could not, so the onus is on you, please let us move on, on this one.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- (Inaudible) HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, the Honourable Member needs to get off personal attacks, seriously.

He is not acting honourably.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- (Inaudible Interjections) HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- This House has always worked better without your presence.
HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- (Inaudible) HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, the point is this, that the kind of access they want, no one else has ever been afforded that.

Honourable Minister here has been in previous Governments and he will testify to that.

You have never been a Minister and I do not think you ever will become a Minister.

(Chorus of Interjections) Madam Chair, the point is the kind of access they want... HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- …to do corruption!

HON.


A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- … Madam Chair, the kind of action they want... HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- (Inaudible interjection) 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 570 HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.-that have not been happened before and we have said to them continuously, they can ask the individual Ministers.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Corruption!

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- He is making accusations of corruption, do you have any proof?

HON.

RATU I.D.
HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- I have the law!

(Laughter) HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Oh, then present it!

Then present it, my friend.

You don’t have a leg to stand on.

(Laughter) HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Count yourself out!

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Oh yes!

(Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- And that was a great ice breaker.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Can I just give a brief explanation?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Explanation on what, please Honourable Leader of Opposition?

HON.

RO T.V.
HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- We have asked the Ministries to come and explain to us, and that is why today we are spending so long.

Had they come and explained to us the issues that we wanted clarified, we would not be spending so long today and we will probably sit beyond ten o’clock tonight at the rate we are going.

[INTERJECTIONS] So next year, if they do not want us to stay so long, they come and explain to us and will keep it short.

(Chorus of interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Order please!
Order please!

We have completed it, the right of reply has been made so there will be no further questions on this particular amendment, and we will now put this to vote.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 571 Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Viliame Gavoka and the question is that Head 18 be increased by $400,000 in respect of Head 18-4-1-7 - Housing Assistance - Former Gold Mine Employees.

Question on proposed amendment put.


Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We move onto the next one.

Parliament we will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Prem Singh, the question is that Head 18 be increased by $9 million in respect of National Disaster Rehabilitation.

I will now ask the Honourable Prem Singh to speak on that on that motion.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


This is not something that has been plucked from thin air.

I will just give you a brief background as to why we are asking for this.

I think the other side is confused with [INTERJECTIONS] disaster rehabilitation and the impending disasters that are there.

Madam Chair, there are two things: one, is the state of preparedness.

That $1 million, that is what I said when the budget was being prepared which was allowed for.
That is allowing for disaster preparedness but after every disaster, there is rehabilitation.

For rehabilitation, we have two rehabilitative droughts in the North and in the West and it has gone to a stage where people are having difficulties in getting water from the creeks and wells, so they depend on Government supplies.

Above all, Madam Chair, the farmers out there, they have cattles which are beginning to die because of lack of water.

This is a very serious situation.


Madam Chair, the figure of $9 million, we had a similar drought in 1998, the then SVT Government was in power and the NFP was in the Opposition.

We very successfully negotiated with them for a $43 million package for crop rehabilitation.

We are asking for $9 million, it was $43million in 1998.

So what we are asking, the increase from $1 million to $10 million will at least cater for water and crop rehabilitation for next year.

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.


P. SINGH.- Not enough in that one.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments on that?

Honourable Minister for Agriculture.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 572 HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, let me clarify to the Honourable Member the technicalities on drought.

There are three classifications in which we then make a declaration for drought.

One is climatical drought that is just the variations in the weather patterns.
At this stage, there is no declaration and that declaration will come from the Meteorology Office in Nadi.

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- We are doing the services to the people, there is no reason to panic because the technical people will make the declaration.

There is none yet, and this is what we call “agricultural droughts”.

Then we have “hydrological droughts” where even the underground water systems would have given up.
So as we speak, Government is just doing its best to provide the services to the people and of course we are also considering the livestock and the needs in the agriculture sector.

We are getting smaller machines, trailer mounted so that we can reach the very extreme farmers because there is no declaration as yet, Madam Chair.

And that is how Government will then make the necessary changes, should and if required.

Thank you Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any further comments?


Honourable Dr Biman Prasad.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I think the motion moved by Honourable Prem Singh is a very genuine one.

I hear the Honourable Minister is talking about the declaration from Government, but if you go back to what the Meteorological Office has said before, they have actually predicted that the El Nino effect will push right through December, that is being reported in the news.
On the ground, Madam Chair, if you travel right from Nabouwalu, Wainikoro and Udu Point, and look at what is happening from Rakiraki to Nadi and Sigatoka, I think the effect is a very serious one.

In fact, we already have a disaster on our hand and when we look at what that means, this prolonged drought, anyone who understands the impact of drought on agriculture, we are already predicting the serious effect on the sugarcane industry.
As we pointed in our contribution to the Budget Address, the allocation for sugar is not enough.

It is not going to be enough to rehabilitate the sugarcane farmers, a million dollars is not going to be enough to look at the rehabilitation of the cattle farmers and rice farmers.

I think it is incumbent upon the Government to actually, even if they put it under requisition, look at this provision in this Ministry as a very important element to address the effect of drought.
It is not an unreasonable request to the Government to think about, just because we have the disaster already, it is there.

I have seen it, Madam Chair, and after talking to the people, you can see what they are expecting.

It is not something very easy for them to come out of, unless they are supported by Government programmes.
I would also suggest, even if this motion is defeated by the Government, which I think, it will be, is to, please, put up a Rehabilitation Plan and see how they can vire funds from other Ministries, to ensure that we put in this effective programme.

I think planning would be very, 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 573 very important and we are already beyond that.

We should have a plan already, so on that, Madam Chair, I strongly support the motion before us.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments, Honourable Members?

Honourable Prem Singh, do you have any concluding statements on that or your Right of reply?

HON.

P. SINGH.- Madam Chair, I would just like to add that by the time we wait for the declaration from the Meteorological Office, it may be too late.
What we are saying is the state of preparedness, that we make these allocation, leave them there and start working on it, with the other aspects of water carting to the people, and I think on a daily basis, people call you, the District Office and the Commissioners, and I think the Assistant Minister has been doing some work in there, that there be a structure for the delivery of water to the rural areas because it is becoming a great concern for the people.
I will give you an example, people in Mulomulo in Nadi say that they get one 200 litre drum of water every fortnight, and they approached the Minister for that.

So, this is just unacceptable, this is where we are coming from.

We can give you many examples like that, Madam Chair.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Can I clarify that statement made by the honourable Member, to say that the water is delivered once in two weeks’ time, that is not true.
The truth is that, we have consulted the Provincial Council Administrators and Commissioners to make sure that emergency water is supplied to the residents of Mulomulo, so there is no truth in it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Parliament will now vote on the amendments in the name of the Honourable Prem Singh and the question is, that Head 18 be increased by $9 million in respect of Natural Disaster Rehabilitation.

Question on proposed amendment put.


Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 13 25 10 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- On the next motion, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Leader of the Opposition and the question is, that Head 18-1-1-7 on the Roadshow be left out of Head 18.

Can I ask the Honourable Leader of the Opposition to speak on this motion?

HON.

RO T.V.
HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Thank you, Madam Chair, I make this assertion on the fact that it has been proven that these types of events, especially the Roadshows which started, I believe, with Rups Big Bear and Courts, and now Government is taking that on board about the 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 574 Roadshow that [LAUGHTER] disseminates propaganda and anti-Opposition materials.

We get this frequently, Madam Chair, when we are told on the phone, “O ratou qo e ratou se baci vakacacani kemudou.
O cei?

O ratou.” So, I do not know, “Naba Dua, Naba Rua”, they keep on telling us, so in this regard ….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please interpret it in English.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Do you understand?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- I do not understand.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Good, good saraga.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Good?

See; if it’s negative, what does it mean?

HON.

RO T.V.
HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Alright, it means that “These people are saying bad things about you - SODELPA” and this is also highlighted by one daily paper frequently coming out and saying that….

HON.

MEMBER.- (Inaudible Interjection) (Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, you may continue.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- ….

this is what Government has been saying about you”.
So in terms of the Roadshow, I am proposing that $200,000 allocation be deleted, because not only is the propaganda happening, in view of their visit to the islands, particularly, it is a burden on the islanders when they come in by ships.

Sometimes, there are over a hundred of them and very limited supplies in terms of food items.
Sometimes, when there is inclement weather, and they are staying over for one or two nights, that is even more of a burden on them, so that is why I am suggesting that this should be taken off and they use that allocation somewhere else.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, it is open for debate.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, this is the effective way of reaching out to the people.

We are also doing these Roadshows.


Let me say this, when we have this type of Roadshows, it is not only the Ministry, all Ministry officials are represented in that and that is where we have just heard from our good friend from that end, that when they have provincial council meetings, they do not know what this “R” stands for.

This is one of the reasons why we go down to the people, that is an opportunity, so I do not see any reason why we should remove that allocation.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, let me clarify the idea behind the Roadshows.

Firstly, as the Minister responsible, I would like to know in which meetings do we have this propaganda because it is Government officials who are doing these Roadshows, 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 575 Madam Chair.
It is only the Ministers who come in and do the opening speech, sit for the talanoa session, listen to the needs of the people and return to office, so if there is an allegation about it being used as a political forum, I would like to know so that I can deal with it.

Secondly, Madam Chair, you have to work in rural Fiji to understand what rural Fijians face.

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Let me finish, Government came up with this after a few exercises were undertaken.
They were required to have identification cards, TIN numbers, birth certificates, marriage registrations, when they want food vouchers, Family Assistance Programmes but for someone living in rural Fiji, you have to first find money so you can pay for the transport and then come to the Government agency, whichever is responsible so that you can be assisted.
It is a big problem in the rural areas, Madam Chair, and secondly, the dissemination of information, Mata ni Tikinas, Turaga ni Koros, advisory councillors, after meetings, most of those information do not trickle down to the rural people.

As the Honourable Minister for Infrastructure has stated, this is about bringing services down to the people.

They are registered in the VKB during Government Roadshows.
They are issued with TIN and FNPF Cards, LTA is in attendance, the University of the South Pacific is in attendance, and more than 50 agencies come in.

Now, even the private sector wants to join the Roadshows because this is an opportunity for them to show the products to the people.

We have only conducted one Roadshow in the islands, Madam Chair, and this is in Rotuma.

There is no other Roadshow conducted by my Ministry apart from Rotuma and that was done this year.
We have just come back from Navunikabi in Namosi with this Roadshow.

The Divisional Commissioners select the location and we bring this information down to the people and serve the people.

We even provide for their transport, Madam Chair, to come to the locations so that we can deal with the issues that they have.

This is about serving the people better, and it is quite disappointing that it is coming from the other side of the House because mostly iTaukeis benefit from this.
(Chorus of Interjections) Registration in the Vola ni Kawa Bula (VKB), Madam Chair: [INTERJECTIONS] Most people have not been registered in the VKB, so when the iTaukei Affairs and Native Lands Commission is there, they do the registration on-site.

You do not have to pay money.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- BDM.

(Acclamation) HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- BDM, Madam Chair.

A lot of people do not have Birth Certificates.

They give their details, it is processed there.


We want to eliminate the 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 576 difficulties that our people in rural Fiji face.

[INTERJECTIONS] This is about bringing services down to the people, there is nothing to fear about… HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Vinaka!

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- There is nothing to fear about, Madam Chair.
They are having problems with Roadshows and that is why they wanted to take away the iTaukei Affairs Roadshow as well, because we are bringing the truth as well to the people.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Hear, hear!

(Acclamation) HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, the community needs these.

(Chorus of Interjections) We are here to serve the people and serve them better.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Hear, hear!

(Acclamation) HON.

LT. COL. I.B.


SERUIRATU.- This is something that [INTERJECTIONS] our people in the rural areas deserve, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.

I think I attended one too where the de-factos really got married as well during these Roadshows.

Honourable Dr. Mahendra Reddy, did you want to say something?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Are there any other comments?

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Yes, Madam Chair.


What we are saying about these Roadshows being used as political roadshows is true.

(Chorus of interjections) HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- We have our ears on the ground too, Madam Chair, and it is very sad.

You could just go on and do what you need to do, but stop rubbishing, stop calling us liars.

It is even reported in the papers, Madam Chair, and it might help if you are in the region, call your friendly Opposition Member, he will come and be part of the dialogue.
We would love to be there with you, [INTERJECTIONS] but you are always keeping us out and the feedback we get is that it is all against the “SODELPA lies.” Sometimes we wonder, why 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 577 you do not just get on with the Programme as opposed to being consumed by SODELPA.

I mean, even there is a newspaper here, without us, they would not be making any sales.
Madam Chair, when it comes to information, we have a very well-run Government Television Station and we believe, they should be given the task to provide public service to everyone in the group.

We can have programmes on agriculture, on anything.

They have done a good job but use them to be the arm to bring our information to everyone and the radio.

It is now the modern age; TV, FBC can do a very good job of this.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- There is no TV in the rural areas.

HON.

V.R.
HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- I believe, we are heading in that direction that everyone will have TV and nothing like experts.

Government people talking to the people on TV or radio and it can be done.

It just that, Madam Chair, we do not believe that it is being done properly and now it is more frightening in the way the civil service will be set up.

It is more frightening that civil servants are going to be travelling and people who are chosen, who owe allegiance to the Minister, as opposed to the PSC.
Can you imagine what is going to happen now?

That will be a political machine, Madam Chair, and we think that this should be cancelled.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I now invite the Honourable Leader of Opposition.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, it might help if we go by an example.
The last time we had a meeting in this House, the issue was land rights and group rights, and what happened there was that the Government said your rights are protected under the Constitution and we totally disagree with that.

We said that it is a total lie.


Next time, a Roadshow happened in Raiwaqa, then in Nauluvatu and then in Nausori by the Government officers, roping in people from TLTB and iTaukei Affairs to explain exactly what the Government was saying, that your rights are protected, that there is no breach of ILO.

We were not there and that is totally unfair to be telling those lies to the public.

[Inaudible Interjections) It is totally not fair if you said something there and we are not there.

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- That is your assessment.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- It is totally unfair, we had our fair debate here, let them look at that.

Next time if you go, invite us to be there too.

You can talk and we can talk but just do not go and tell all these lies.

I can understand it, we can understand that you want to speak to stay in power for as long as you want to, because the sooner you go out, you will end up in prison or where ever.
We can understand that, but we must have a fair game, fair level playing field.

That is the very reason why we should take this out.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 578 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I think the Honourable Leader of Opposition is ready to make her Right of reply.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


In terms of what the Honourable Minister for Agriculture, Rural and Maritime Development and National Disaster Management has said and I thank him for the issues he has brought but I want to reassure him that we are not operating in fear from this side of the House.
It is just that we see it as very unfair, in terms of the Government Ministers going out and being able to open the roadshow and have the talanoa session in which it has been reported that you are talking about SODELPA, so that is established.

Now, in terms of us wanting to go out and visit the constituencies which is Fiji wide, we are unable to do that because we need a permit, authorisation from the Turaga ni Koro and we need to have a police clearance permit, before we can do that.
So we are asking for a level playing field where they can go out and speak to people and we should also be given that freedom.

Madam Chair, that is the motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much for that Right of reply.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Leader of the Opposition.

The question is, that Head 18-1-1-7 – Government Roadshow be left out of Head 18.

Question on proposed amendment put.


Votes Cast Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 15 26 7 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Niko Nawaikula and the question is, that Head 18-5 – Climate Change Mitigation at SEG 10 be left out of Head 18.

I will now invite the Honourable Nawaikula to speak on his motion.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, if I could just explain the purpose of this motion.
The sum that is indicated there is $2 million.

I appreciate very much the work that is done by the Honourable Seruiratu, but the whole point of my motion is that, we need in relation to climate change to have a central place where this can be looked after and coordinated.

We do not want to have the problem where we now have in relation to the Northern policy, where the Ministry of Agriculture has its own Northern Policy Programme and the others and they are totally everywhere.
So, the only reason why I am bringing this up because climate change is very, very important and that we need to have a coordinated place, a central ministry where all of these can be administered.

Sure enough, there is disaster management, there is also a need to address pollution.

There are other aspects that relate to climate change 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 579 that need to be properly coordinated.
That is the whole reason why I am asking for this to be removed from Head 18 and to be put into the Ministry for Environment.

I think that is the correct and properly place to coordinate all these.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The floor is open for debate.

There being none then there is no need for the Right of reply, we will go straight into the vote.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I just want to….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Dr. Biman.

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I just wanted to add to what Honourable Nawaikula said, I was looking for something on climate change adaptation.

I think there is a big difference between climate change mitigation and climate change adaptation.

Mitigation is a bit abstract.

I mean, we can talk about reducing greenhouse gas emissions, you can talk about clean energy.
These are long term activities but climate change adaptation, the impact of extreme weather patterns on people, how do people actually adapt to a climate change disaster is probably more relevant and more immediate for a lot of people in Fiji.

I have not seen any allocation and perhaps, what Honourable Nawaikula said is to move that and also include climate change adaptation and climate change mitigation together because that will tie everything nicely.
For adaptation purposes, you could have very specific allocations to deal with this specific areas and on specific issues.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chairperson, I think it is probably a case of semantics what the Honourable Prasad has raised, one can argue that by mitigating actually adapting too.

So, I think what has actually happened through the Ministry, they are looking from a holistic perspective.

You hear actually mitigating a particular risk part of the mitigation also involves adaptation.
For the Honourable Prem Singh’s issue too, Madam Chairperson, I would like to point out to the Honourable Members, although I know we have not come to that Head but Head 50 when we come to that, roughly would be later today, that we have allocated $5million for Disaster Risk.

That is the contingency fund that we parked in, in the event for example, we have very extreme weather patterns.
We have already in terms of allocation of water carting, as the Honourable Minister for Infrastructure and Honourable Minister for Rural and Maritime Development have said.

We do have funds for that, we do put in place various contingency measures, but apart from that we put in an additional $5 million.

We were told that there could be possible cyclone of course, for some of the weather patterns the way it has developed, so we parked some funds there and that is obviously, for later discussion too.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.-Thank you for those comments, Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Niko Nawaikula and the question is, that under 18, Programme 5, SEG 10 be left out of Head 18, and of course, as has been said, transfer to Environment.

Question on proposed amendment put.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 580 Votes Cast Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Members, that brings us to the end of Head 18.

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Madam Chair, under 18 -5-1 (SEG 10), we have been talking about that SEG.

I would like to move a motion, Madam Chairperson, and the motion is to actually increase the amount given in corresponding to the Climate Change Mitigation from $2million to $5million.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, can you fill in the form and then we will deal with your motion.
Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Semesa Karavaki and the question is, that Head 18 be increased by $3 million in respect of 18- 5-1 (SEG 10).

Can I ask the Honourable Karavaki to speak on that motion?

HON.

S.D.
HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair, I have been sitting and listening to the discussion going on, I am deeply in thought about it, especially when I saw the Honourable and Learned Attorney-General appears to be a very good actor to me on the other side with a deep voice that he was using.

I thought about what we are talking here, Madam Chairperson, is something that is beyond our control, the climate change.

We are talking about allocating funds, doing what we can do.
We have seen the amount given here and I am also convicted to stand and rise and say this because, here we are really talking about the spiritual realm that is beyond our control.

(Chorus of Interjections) If we are a nation that we are concerned about the effect and the damage that has been caused and is going to affect our country and also the population of this country.
We should at least, take a moment to observe, to look at what the creator, the one who has the control of climate change, because we might use all the money that we have, we think that we have, and we exhausted everything that we have and still the damage and the destruction will still come and this is why I am suggesting, Madam Chairperson, for the increase to be used for the leadership of this country, the Government.
The Government must take the lead to bring all nations together and to seek the Lord because God is the one who controls everything.

HON.

MEMBER.- Tell them!

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 581 HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- And I have not seen any time or in the past have that leaders done this.

It is the time now for the leaders to take the step.
To bring all the nations together and we must seek God because God said, He will heal the land if we seek him and this is why, Madam Chairperson, I am suggesting for this increase to be used and God surely will never forget this nation as the leaders have taken this step.

We can be a nation preserved from all disasters, preserved by God and His power.

This is the reason, Madam Chairperson, I am proposing this motion.
(Inaudible Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to speak again; Honourable Ratu Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you, Madam Chairperson, when we talk about the climate change, the climate is not only natural, it is also man-made, the man-made is created by people and are we going to look after that too, because if you look at Nausori, Lami, they are created by people that decided that during past governments.

It is crowded and there is nowhere else to move.


The Town of Nausori, that is being developed by the good Government that you have actually pushed them to something that they cannot live, and actually enjoy the village climate that they used to.

So, they need to be moved to another location.

Would that Climate Change allocation can also accommodate for that?

If not, where is it coming from?


We also need to see that because it is not only natural climate but it is the imposition of men’s decision that is actually creating problems like that.

That is why I am asking, if you cannot provide that, is there any other budgetary allocation that that is going to be covered from.

Man- made disaster, as the Honourable man in charge of disaster understands that very well.

Two disasters, natural and?

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBER.- Man-made.

HON.

RATU I.D.


TIKOCA.- You know that.

And then you caused a lot of disasters too as well.

(Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Karavaki, would you like to make a concluding statement?

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Thank you, Madam.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Semesa Karavaki and the question is that Head 18 be increased by $3 million in respect of Head 18-5-1-10.
Question on proposed amendment put.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 582 Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 15 26 7 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The Parliament will now vote on Head 18 and the question is that Head 18 - Ministry of Rural and Maritime Development and National Disaster Management be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

Parliament will now vote on the motion.

Question put Votes Cast Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 28 15 5 Head 18 agreed to.

Head No.
Head No.

19 - Republic of Fiji Military Forces MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head 19 is open for debate.

We will look at Programme 1, Activity 1 .

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you Madam Chair.

Can the Honourable Minister please explain why the Acting Allowance allocation in Head 19-1-1-1 of $310,000?

Why has it been a continuing feature in SEG 1 all the way back from the 2013 budget?

Should not acting appointments spanning this long be confirmed as part of good HR practice?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- I thank the Honourable Member for the question.

There are a lot of movements with RFMF within the manning and sometimes people are acting on appointments.

When the appointment is transferred to the Middle East then you have to nominate people to act on their behalf that is why we have acting appointments.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.


DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, I wish to move a motion under Standing Order 100 (2) that the allocation of $310,000 be decreased by $310,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments on Activity 1?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 583 HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Yes.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Can I just get some clarification from the Honourable Minister in regards to, before acting was not paid.
Temporary appointment then, you received the temporary payment pay.

Is the acting now being paid?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- You are talking about the same thing – temporary pay.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- They are not paid?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- No.

The temporary pay is paid but when the appointee returns from the Middle East, these officers revert to their original substantive rank.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, can I just ask another question.
So you are saying that acting appointments is not paid?

Acting appointment before is not used to be paid, only when you are given a temporary rank then you are paid.

All I am asking is now acting, are you receiving payment?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- If someone is promoted from Corporal, acting on the appointment of a Sergeant, he is paid temporary Sergeant’s and is being given the acting pay.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you, actually there is some change.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments on Activity 1?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I wish to make a clarification.

Madam Chair, can I ask a clarification in relation to Field Allowance - $16,000.

We are given to believe that this is covered by the United Nations (UN) - Head 19-1-1-1.

There is a sum there of $16,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- So you are wanting a clarification?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Field Allowance is the allowance given to the engineers when they are deployed outside Suva.

If they are deployed to Vanua Levu, they are given a Field Allowance.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments on 19-1-1?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Yes, Madam Chair.


Head 19-1-1-7 – Can the Honourable Minister please advise on the $10,000 allocation for OHS expenses and whether this allocation includes compensation for incidents of Occupational Health and Safety for our peacekeepers who lose their lives there in the line of duty, and whether it is reimbursed to Fiji by the UN under the 2011 Contingent Owned Equipment Manual that is adopted by the UN General Assembly?
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 584 HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- The RFMF is only reimbursed for the activities in the field not local.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- The field there, out there in the peacekeeping mission, Minister?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- For reimbursement, there is a list of things that are being reimbursed like, personal weapon, webbing, et cetera.

Those are the criteria that is being given by the United Nations.
Some of the things that they carry, sometime they are not mandated to be reimbursed, they come on a list.

The list is being provided by the United Nations.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, if I can also assist the Honourable Draunidalo.

This OHS is to do with local OHS.

Do not ask about Foreign Missions and Multinational Forces Overseas, that is in a different Head.

This Head here is only for RFMF activities within Fiji itself.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comment on Activity 1?

HON.
HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Head 19-1-1, SEG 7, on Basic Recruit Course.

Can I ask the Honourable Minister, how many recruitments will be done next year?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- I thank the Honourable Member but I do not have the figures with me at the moment.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Do you feel you need to increase or….. HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.


BULITAVU.- Thank you Madam Chair, because the Honourable Minister does not have the knowledge on how many basic recruitment trainings will be done next year and he did not even tell us how much is it to hold one basic recruit training in a year and we have $460,000 there.
Probably, could he enlighten us on how much does it cost to hold one recruit in a year, so we can break it down to know how many recruits will be done next year so we can come to the figure and then we can suggest whether to decrease or increase.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- It depends on the numbers and that is the prerogative of the Commander, RFMF as to how many he wants to recruit in a period of time.

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, supplementary to that, say if you are recruiting 200 new recruits, what could be the cost?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- I do not have the figures with me.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Draunidalo.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 585 HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- A supplementary question to the Honourable Minister.
Does the Military have any plans and funds set aside to diversify the personnel in the Military so that other ethnic communities in our country are employed there as well?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which SEG are you referring to?

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- SEG 7.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- There is a criteria for recruitment into the RFMF for anyone who wants to join but it is the choice of the people if they want to.
If there are limited number of other races, I do not know because they have the choice whether to go to university or to join other institutions.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Can the Honourable Minister provide assurance that the Military at least is looking into some of its funds that it does get, that will make recruitment for the other ethnic communities attractive too for recruitment?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, can I speak on that.
This Government does not believe in pushing a particular ethnic group to join a particular profession, everything is merit-based.

As with the Civil Service, similar to the RFMF, they have their criteria, they have their pass out.

If they meet the criteria, they pass through.

[INTERJECTIONS] We cannot go and force people to join an ethnic group nor should you be putting in place incentives for just one ethnic group - that is discriminatory.
[INTERJECTIONS] It should be all criteria, the criteria is very transparent.

These are the criteria; you pass your basic training course, you get recruited and if you do not want to apply, you do not apply, it is very simple.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- SEG 7, Madam Chair, in regards to the basic recruit training, I now put to the Honourable Minister, because he does not have the amount of recruits, he does not have any base.
I put to him that the $460,000 that is in SEG 7, it does not have any base.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I think the question is irrelevant to the objective of this exercise.

The objective of this exercise is for you to decide, based on your information, to increase, decrease or retain.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- I am going to fill the form.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Fill the form.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- I asked him three questions before I came to that.
I wanted to know whether he had any knowledge about this figure.

The three questions that I asked, I came to know that they did not have any base.

Now that I am going to move, according to 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 586 Standing Order, Section 100 (2), that this particular basic recruit course be totally removed or decreased by $460,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Can you fill in the form please?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Fill the form!

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

We will move on.


Any other comments on Activity 1?

Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, Activity 1, SEG 8, can the Honourable Minister please explain why the Black Rock Integrated Peacekeeping Centre has just been allocated $1 million, again under Capital Construction, because the Honourable Minister of Finance had said in his Budget Address in 2014 that that facility would be completed this year and why is this extra $1 million there?

HON.
HON.

MEMBER.- Which programme?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- SEG 8 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Blackrock, Why 1 million?

Probably the Honourable Minister of Finance ….

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- I did not say it was completed.

I said the work is continuing and I used that as an example where allocations had been made, but it was not utilised because some of the planning that had been put in place were not properly done.

Therefore, there was no full utilisation of the funds.
That is what I was trying to point out.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

Honourable Ratu Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D TIKOCA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am astounded by the answers coming from the Honourable Minister.

I am just a little scared, whether he ministers his Ministries or is it someone else because the way things are actually evolving in this country, your Defence Ministry is being commanded by elsewhere from someone else.
(Inaudible Interjections) Now let us talk about Black Rock - $75 million was actually allocated last year and is not appearing, what is this $1 million?

Can you talk about what was spent at Black Rock and what is the intention of Black Rock?

You might remember I raised this question last year to your good self where I asked why the United Nation is not paying for that and the peacekeepers are supposed to be paying for that money.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBER.- Where is the budget?

HON.

RATU I.D.
HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Yes, that is the budget.

HON.

MEMBER.- The UN should be paying for that.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 587 HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- The UN should be paying and then your good answer came that it was to prepare people to go to the UN but it is paid by the taxpayers.

That was your answer last year.

Now another $1 million, $75 million dispersed last year.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- No!

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- No, no.


Can you please clarify to the people of Fiji, how much has been done and how much the United Nations is assisting you in building things to provide support to United Nations and what is this $1 million for?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- (Inaudible interjection) HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA- Black Rock.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Since the Honourable Minister for Finance had addressed this issue … (Chorus of Interjections) … I will ask him to ….

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.


- The Honourable Member said $75 million, no, Black Rock never got $75 million.

There was an allocation of $7 million, that was what I said, not $75 million, the allocation was $7 million for Black Rock but the work had not been done.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Why?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.

- I have told you.

You were here for my Budget Speech where I explained that, that some of the works had not been carried out because of some planning issues.
Now we are ensuring that all construction work has all the planning stuff done properly before the actual allocation for construction.

So, this year, our going into 2016, we have allocated only $1 million to ensure that whatever amount of money is allocated will get used.

Regarding the UN, as you would know Honourable Member, you also served overseas, even at that time the UN did not provide any funding for you to be trained before you went off to the Middle-East.
The similar situation exists today, they do not do that.

They do provide, for example as the Honourable Minister highlighted, supplies, weaponry, et cetera, that is what we get paid by UN, but not for training courses.

HON.

RATU I. D. TIKOCA.- Now I know who is the Minister for Defence.

(Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Draunidalo.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 588 HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, I wanted to move a motion to follow on from that.
Under Standing Order 100(2), I move without notice that Head 19 be decreased by $1 million in respect of Black Rock Integrated Peacekeeping Centre.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, will you fill the form?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Vinaka.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Members I think it is time to break for lunch.

When we resume, we will continue exactly from where we have left off and the meeting is now adjourned until 2 o’clock.

Thank you very much.


The Parliament adjourned at 1.01 p.m. 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 589 The Parliament resumed at 2.05 p.m. MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Good afternoon, Honourable Members.

HON.

MEMBERS.- Good afternoon, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Members, we note that we have only voted on three of the Heads so far today.

We have not made much progress and we need to proceed in a more efficient manner.
I want to reiterate that contributions to the debate must be concise and relevant to the Head being deliberated upon.

Please avoid mundane contributions and tedious repetition.

We have a long way to go and we need to be more organised.

Please follow proceedings closely and make interventions at the correct time so that we are not jumping back and forth.

I ask Honourable Members for your cooperation.


Now I would like to recognise the presence of students from Sanatan Dharam Primary School and Bhawani Dayal Memorial Primary School, who are here this afternoon.

I would like to welcome you to this Parliament.

I hope I have mentioned the right schools.

Yes, you are very, very welcome and Parliament wishes you all the best in your studies.

(Acclamation) Thank you, we will continue from where we had left off and we are now looking at Head 19-1-2.
Sorry, I was looking down below but we have a very distinguished delegation from Indonesia who are in the gallery right now.

(Acclamation) You are very welcomed to Parliament, I know I had met you earlier, but thank you very much for taking interest in coming to sit for a few minutes here this afternoon.

We will now look at Programme 1 – Republic of Fiji Forces, Activity 2 – Logistic Support Unit and this is up for debate.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, we had not actually finished Activity 1, so we are going back there to SEG 8 - supplementary.

Can the Honourable Minister please advise as to why the upgrade of Sukanaivalu Barracks, totalling $300,000 has been a regular feature in SEG 8 from the 2013 Budget Estimates?

Is that a continuing renovation or it just has not been executed?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 590 HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

The renovation of some of the barracks in Fiji have been outstanding, like the Sukanaivalu Barracks has been outstanding for the last eight years.

This is to bring up to standard the infrastructure in that area.

The buildings are breaking down and we need this money to repair the facilities.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- SEG 9, Madam Chair.


I note Honourable Minister that the allocation of $200,000 for HQ RFMF is to be responsible for policy advice to Government on defence matters is pegged for upgrade to the RFMF specialist medical equipment.
Can the Honourable Minister advise whether the current health care benefits for RFMF personnel includes proper debrief, counselling for peacekeepers when they return from high stress situations and dramatic missions, to ensure that we are not importing the difficulties from there in here?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- I want to clarify whether there are two questions or is it just one.
If you want to talk about the upgrade of the RFMF special medical equipment, this is another area that has been pending for more than 10 years that we have to upgrade the George Mate Medical Centre (GMMC) to the standard required by the medical, otherwise it will go through OHS.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Does it include the counselling service?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Excuse me, this allocation really is for equipment.

Equipment, counselling is a service.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- I have a motion, Madam Chair, that pursuant to Standing Order 100(2) I move without notice that Head 19 be increased by $1 million in respect of upgrade of RFMF specialist medical services, to include counselling.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The increase of $1 million is quite a big increase.

Would you have some justification?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- I will speak to it on the motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Does anyone have any more or any other comments on Activity 1 or Activity 2?

Do you have comments, if any?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Can the Honourable Minister please advise why the allocation of $460,000 (which is almost half a million dollars) pegged for basic recruit course?

Is the RFMF intending to recruit more soldiers in 2016, using this allocation and if so, how many?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.-Which SEG are you referring to?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- SEG 9.


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 591 HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, I think that has been asked before and I have answered the question.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Yes, I have a motion, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Motion.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- I move without notice under Standing Order 100(2) that Head 19 be decreased by $460,000 in respect of this recruit course.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Will you fill the form?

Any other comments?

We will move on to Programme 1, Activity 2.

Honourable Vadei.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, I just want to ask the Honourable Minister regarding SEG 4 – Spare parts and maintenance the justification of that amount.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister of Finance, I do not know whether we should be looking at justifications.

HON.
HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Whether they are maintaining old vehicles or whether they are going to purchase new vehicles.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Yes, that is correct.

We have some very old vehicles in the RFMF and it is not only the vehicles, it is also the graders, the plants and this is why the figure is required.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any more comments on Activity 2?

Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.


DRAUNIDALO.- Honourable Minister, can you please elaborate on why there is now allocation for stationery and printing of $10,000 in 2016 was never included before this year for next year’s budget?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Which SEG are you talking about?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- SEG.

4 – Stationery and Printing - $10,000.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- We need this for the operations of the Logistic Support Unit.
This Unit looks after the logistics of RFMF and also for peacekeeping operations overseas.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 592 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other questions?

Yes, Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

Head 19-1-2-5, just a clarification on personal equipment, ($1million).

Can the honourable Minister elaborate on that amount of money?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Honourable Chair, the personal equipment is the uniform, like in the RFMF, we have numbers of uniforms; Number One to Number Ten and then for different locations, we have different uniforms to wear.

This is required to change the uniforms for the three thousand plus people who we have or the Regulars.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister please advise whether the upgrade of the Logistic Support Unit (LSU) remains the fixture under this SEG 8 and under Requisition, spending all the way back to 2013 Budget as well?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- As being highlighted by the Honourable Minister for Finance, the preliminaries for this was not done properly, thus it was carried over to 2016.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Ratu Tikoca.


HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

Can you actually inform the House on what is the total strength of RFMF now?

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which SEG are you referring to?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- SEG 1.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Well, the last figure that I know was about 3215.

It may have changed in the last couple of years.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- That includes everyone, also Territorial?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- No.

HON.


RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- We provide funds also for Territorial Forces in their weekend training.

Can we be provided for those who are in the Territorial Force, Regular Force and Reserves?

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.-Thank you.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 593 HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- The 3215 figure is for the Regular Force, the Territorial Force, I do not have the numbers with me, maybe it is up to 3000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, in the 2013 budget, $18million was allocated for 3FIR, I should know the 3FIR, I do know the 3FIR former Commander.

The allocation has now jumped from $18 million in 2013 to $22 million for next year’s budget - $4 million in two years.

Can the Honourable Minister please advise exactly how many established staff we are talking about here to warrant that increase?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which Activity or which SEG are you referring to?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- SEG 1, Activity 3.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We go on to Activity 3 SEG 1.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Capital Construction, this is what you mean?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- The increase from $15 million in 2013 and $22 million for next year for established staff, and we want to ask exactly how many established staff are we talking about in the two years, to necessitate the increase for $4 million.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- For 2015, it is about $22 million and for 2016, $22 million - it is about the same figure.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Ratu Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.
HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

In Military, we assess external and internal threats and then we form a military.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- We!

(Chorus of interjections) HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Yes, when you say, what are the external and internal threats to warrant this huge amount?

Please, the Fijians are listening.

What are the external threats and internal threats?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Which SEG?


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 594 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- SEG 1.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, we are talking about budgets, we are not talking about threats.

(Chorus of Interjections) HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- There is no threat mentioned by him, so why you have an army?

(Inaudible Interjections) That is what we are talking about.

What are the internal and external threats?


Every SEG, from SEG I to the last SEG refers to what are the threats, internal and external, during my time.

I know and how you formed the army.

Come on answer, e rawarawa, mai.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The onus is on the Honourable Minister to answer.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- The former Colonel have to understand that in the military operation, when you have one person abroad, you have three in Fiji.
1:3 in the ratio, but at the moment it is 1:1 that is why most of the officers who serve 12 months in Sinai, they come back for about one year and they go back to the Golan Heights.

In fact, if you want to do an operation like what they do in overseas, the ratio should be 1:3, that means our number should be above more than what we have at the moment.
Taking the Navy apart, and the engineers who are not doing that and the logistic, then the ratio should be more then we should be recruiting more soldiers but we are not doing that.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, in active service and war, it is 1:3 and you need to build up three times the one enemy.

So now do not talk to me about militants.


This is wrong, when now it is not war situation, it is peaceful then it must be reasonable to provide UN services and to provide what is right for this nation.

Defending rather than assaulting, vinaka.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Ratu Tikoca, do you think that this budget that has been allocated is not enough, insufficient or too much?

You want it reduced?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- It is too much, there is a need to decrease.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Okay, we will give you a form.

Would you like to propose a motion to amend?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Yes, I will.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Bulitavu.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 595 HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

In SEG 5, the Honourable Minister, warlike stores about $50,000, go back to Head 19-1-2, SEG 5, there is another allocation for warlike stores ($200,000).

What is the difference?


I know because LSU keeps all the equipment for all things, so, why there are two sets of war like stores?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, we have two different units, one is the Logistic Support Unit and for the 3FIR is for their own warlike stores.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

Activity 3?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.


DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, on SEG 5, can the Honourable Minister explain, please the Local Training Allocation of $100,000, and whether Human Rights Training is prioritised in the Training Programmes for 2016?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, the local training includes all types of training - combat training, unarmed combat training and training in the bush, and that is allocated for that.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Human Rights training?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- In order to maintain the standard of 3FIR, they have specialised type of training.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, pursuant to Standing Order 100 (2), I move without notice that Head 19 be increased by $500,000, in respect of training to accommodate Human Rights training.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Do we have any other comments?

We are now looking at Activities 3 and 4.

Any comments on any of these two Activities?


HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Yes, Madam Chair.

There is a general question to the Honourable Minister, can the Honourable Minister advise whether the RFMF engineers are in any way involved with the upgrade of Sukanaivalu Barracks that is sitting in the Estimates under RFMF from 2013?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Can you repeat that?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.


DRAUNIDALO.- Can you advise if the RFMF Engineers are involved with the upgrading of the Sukanaivalu Barracks, that has been sitting in the Estimates from 2013?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 596 HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Normally, the upgrading of infrastructures goes through the Tender Board and the engineers also tender for that.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments?

Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, as the Honourable Minister said yesterday, in relation to the RFMF Engineers, the building or the continuing construction of the road from Rosi to Balaga,, I cannot see it here, can you explain why there are no details here regarding that?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- The Engineers are still waiting for the $600,000 to be provided for FRA for the completion of that road.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

HON.

RATU I.D.
HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Vinaka, Madam Chair, the Engineers is the RFMF’s entity that is actually fully justified to operate because of the services they provide to the whole of Fiji.

If it is 500 in strength, raise it up to 1000 because that is going to provide for that, and I request if that can be considered in the Budget by raising up the Engineers, as you know, like the Navy.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Anymore comments?


If there are no more comments, then we will go on to the recommended motions that you have received so far.

On the first one, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Tupou Draunidalo and the question is, that Head 19 be increased by $1 million in respect of the upgrade of the RFMF Specialist Medical Equipment Facilities.

I now ask the Honourable Draunidalo to speak on her motion.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- A query, Madam Chair, by going on with this motion, does it mean to say that we have gone through the whole of Head 19, or are we just taking a break and going into this motion?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- No, we are going on to that SEG and we are just dealing with it SEG by SEG.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- As it pleases you, Madam Chair.


Madam Chair, this SEG 9, there is an allocation of $200,000 for HQ, RFMF which is responsible for policy advice to Government on defence matters and expect for upgrades of RFMF Specialist Medical Equipment.
We ask the question of the Honourable Minister whether current health care benefits for RFMF personnel included proper, debrief counselling for peacekeepers returning from high stress and traumatic missions, to ensure that we are not importing the UN experiences from difficult places back to Fiji, such as post-traumatic stress 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 597 disorder because these ordeals tend to manifest well-beyond army personnel into their families, communities, and will have a long-term costs for the nation.
That is why we are moving this motion, to increase the allocation under this Head, so that proper debriefing facilities can be made available as Parliament and everyone in this country well know that we are against militarisation but because the State is sending them out to these places, and they would come back with post-traumatic disorder, we are moving this motion to deal with those issues when they come back, and to be fair to them and to their families.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any comments on that motion?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, if I may clarify, the United Nations is well aware that not all troop contributing countries have psychology course.
Most bigger defence establishments have their own psychology course but what the UN did (and this is a Former CEO of the Forces Training Group , who is responsible for training peacekeepers), What the UN did, Madam Chair, in 1991, it came up with the Stress Management Package, and that was sent to all troop contributing countries, being fully aware that the RFMF does not have psychology courses, that is the action that was taken by the United Nations to prepare and there are various phases, for example, Pre Deployment Training (this is the package); In- Theatre Training (this is the package); Post-Theatre (this is the package).
So there is a package in place by the United Nations to address that issue.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments on that particular motion?

If none, I will now ask the Honourable Draunidalo to speak in reply.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Now that the Honourable Minister has clarified that issue, I do not know why the Honourable Minister for Defence could not tell us that, if he did, we would not have put this motion forward.
That was our concern and now that the Honourable Minister for Agriculture has clarified it, I withdraw the motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The motion has been withdrawn.

We will move on to the next motion.

The Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Tupou Draunidalo and the question is, that Head 19 be decreased by $1 million in respect of the Black Rock Integrated Peacekeeping Centre under SEG 8.

I will now ask Honourable Draunidalo to speak on that motion.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, this Facility, Black Rock, is just another enabler and an excuse for our country to increase militarisation for the benefit of the UN and conflicts that are nothing to do with us, and it is a waste of our taxpayers’ money.

The UN should pay for all UN-related peacekeeping measures and they owe us and this country so much money.

The amount of money that the United Nations owes this country, we could do wonders with CWM.
There would be heart operations happening at CWM, other 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 598 complex surgeries happening in top class hospitals, Madam Chair.

Instead of having that, we are wasting the poor people’s taxpayers’ money on funding UN activities, and that is why I am moving this motion to get rid of this $1 million from there and put it into Health.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you have any other input to that motion?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, again, let me just clarify this.

Of course, the UN does owe Fiji money, but on the other hand, the UN also have conditions in place, particularly now, if you want to contribute to peacekeeping operations, and these are some of the requirements.
If you need to be considered for future peacekeeping operations, then you have to have this in place so that you give an indication to the United Nations that you are committed and, of course, you have the necessary facilities as well to guarantee that troops are well-prepared, and when the need does arise, then these are the countries that will ….
So Fiji in the long-term, this is a catch 22 situation, whether we get rid of this totally, or do we need to invest in this, given the fact that the UN will pay.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, I want to make a small contribution.

I think I am totally afraid that we are increasing spending on the Military.

In relation to the UN when we should be reducing our commitment to them and we are doing this.
The UN does not serve us any more purpose, the UN, the US and all these countries are using us.

They are not paying, we are paying ourselves to go there, keep the peace in some foreign land, have their democracy restored, and what are we doing, nothing.

HON.

S.B.

VUNIVALU.- Have you been there?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- That is not the point.

HON.

S.B.

VUNIVALU.- You do not know.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- We talk substance here.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- You come here for constructive arguments.

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS.- Oh, oh!

(Inaudible interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 599 HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Just try and understand what I am saying.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula, are you finished or not yet?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I am not finished yet.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please continue.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- And for that reason, we should be moving out of the UN because we have been used and abused.

We are paying for ourselves to go there when we should better spend this money to address this locally and for that, I support the motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Anyone else who would like to speak?

The Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.


NATUVA.- Madam Chair, I just want to reiterate what the Honourable Minister for Agriculture, Rural and Maritime Development and National Disaster Management had mentioned that for the continuation of peacekeeping operations there is a prerequisite that we also have a peacekeeping school and that is the Black Rock.

But it is the responsibility of any contributing country to their own training.

That is part of the agreement.


It is not the responsibility of the UN to do the training, it is the responsibility of the troop contributing country.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, I also want to contribute.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I am sorry, but I had called Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I support the motion.


I think it is time for us in this country to begin to think seriously, not only about the role of the Military, but also its size.

We all know Members on this side of the House as well as the other side that increasing militarisation of this country has taken place over for the last two or three decades.
I remember that in 1987, we had started with about a $8 million budget and we have seen a steady rise in the budget of the Military over the last three decades, and on top of that, Madam Chair, we have suffered economic loss, economic damage as a result of the coups in this country.

We cannot labour that point enough, that has been made by various Members in this House and also outside of this House.
I think this is an opportunity now that we are back into democracy and we are telling ourselves that we have got genuine democracy and we are telling the world that we have moved away from the coup culture.

This is the time for us to reduce Military expenditure, reduce its size in this country and stop the militarisation of the Civil Service, and in every other organisation.
The Military Officers and former Military Officers on both sides of the House would agree that it is time for us to think about this 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 600 institution seriously and this is an opportunity for Parliament to send out the message and to start the process of downsizing the Military, reducing their expenditure and making sure that we adhere to the rule of law and that we bring in genuine democracy that we all talk about.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I give the floor to Honourable Ratu Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

Last year, I had asked the Honourable Minister for Immigration, National Security and Defence as to how the Black Rock was going to be funded because it is tagged under United Nation Training.

We were told in the House that this is not so, although it is called United Nation Training for transit to training before they depart.
There is no money provided for by the United Nations to support it, so why call it United Nation Transitional Training before they depart, it is not.

The United Nations does not recognise that institution and why are you spending so much money in building something because United Nation does not concur with that?

This is the problem, you confine yourself.


We have got Battalions in Lautoka and Labasa and then you have in Suva the Navy and the Engineers, they are very well spread, so, why create Black Rock?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister of Finance.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, just to provide some clarification to the House.

A lot has been said about the figures that the UN owes us, it is as if tens and millions of dollars are owed to us.

I can tell you I have just got the figures.


Based on the formula that Fiji had understood, there was a total budget of $84.6 million that we were supposed to receive from the UN.

We have received so far $57.7 million in the past five years.

So, there is an arrears of $26.9 million.

It is not hundreds of millions of dollars or tens of millions of dollars, it is $26.9 million.
Obviously a lot of these disbursements, like with other countries in the world, that do provide peacekeeping duties and forces, they also have a similar situation because a lot of these funds, the disbursements are paid once the member countries do pay their dues, and as you know, a lot of member countries are actually overdue in the payments of the UN system.

So that is the amount of money that is owed to Fiji as far as the formula that we have worked out.
As you know, recently when the Honourable Prime Minister was in New York, we were again asked about the rapid deployment and we have made some allocations for that, no super or duper amounts, but the fact is that the UN is also working in Fiji to try and resolve these anomalies that are outstanding and to make sure that we have the right formula that we all understand that.
Regarding, Madam Chair, the statement by Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad, let us get rid of the coup culture by getting rid of the Budget of the RFMF, that does not make logical sense.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 601 (Interjections) HON.

MEMBER OF THE HOUSE.- That is why you are here!

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, the fundamental problem of course regarding coups in Fiji has to do with a lot of socio-economic issues as we all know, and those are the issues that have been addressed by the 2013 Constitution - the socio-economic rights, the fact that we need to also to be able to have a society where everyone is treated equally.

The fact that we do have more information being put out by outreach programmes that we do have through the various ministries.
That is the true democratisation that is taking place.

If you will note, the actual expenditure of the Military compared under Head 19, compared to last year, actually has decreased by $9.7 million in 2015 compared to 2016, so that has decreased even if (as we will discuss the next Head about peacekeeping duties) you add the $6 million, it still has come down by an overall $3 million and the RFMF obviously is committed to ensuring that they also are very prudent about their spending.
However, to draw an analogy between the estimates that we have and to say therefore, by having a particular figure will mean that we are militarising, I think that is a ridiculous proposition.

(Inaudible Interjections) The reality, Madam Chair, that most people also forget, people who are uttering at the moment also forget that following the events of 2000, it was the RFMF that brought stability to Fiji [INTERJECTIONS] and people actually should not forget that.
I think the reality is that if we are able to focus on the estimates and the reality is that the figures have come down, a lot more streamlined, and that is what we need to be focusing on, Madam Chair.

Now I will provide the figures regarding the UN.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Can we have the Right of reply, Honourable Draunidalo?

HON.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, why we say this is the militarisation is as the Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad has said, $8 million used to be their budget and now it is $170-odd million this year, last year, even taking into account the overall decrease by $3 million, as the Honourable Minister had said.
Madam Chair, when we give money like $1 million for Black Rock, specifically just for that facility, all of these UN-related training and peacekeeping is used as an excuse of why we should maintain such a large Military.

It is an excuse, Madam Chair.

It is ‘the’ excuse for why we have such a large Military- is to serve the United Nations - $170-odd million last year, this year and the year before that.
Madam Chair, just take all those hundreds of millions of dollars, imagine if they could have been put elsewhere, instead of subsidising (we are subsidising the world) because the United Nations is the world with 160 whatever countries that have members in it.

Such a poor country we are, people cannot have a heart operation in this country and various health facilities.
Health professionals are complaining about overtime always being paid so late and then not having 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 602 sufficient posts.

They are always acting, no posts to promote themselves to that they can get paid, so they resign and leave.

We talk about brain drain.

These are serious issues and I know every member of this House, wherever we sit understand that these are very serious problems and we cannot just keep giving money to subsidise the world body.
I mean let them pay for it, if they want Fiji to have a Military (a large one) and let them give the $80 million every year for this Head 49, which is peacekeeping, Madam Chair.

Why must this poor country and our poor taxpayers have to go with high youth unemployment, graduate unemployment, brain drain and health facilities, which are so bad?

Again, Madam Chair, all of us would have gone to CWM Hospital some time recently.
It is just appalling, (and this is not anything to do with the Minister, it is not his fault or the Government) it has been there for a while because we keep feeding the wrong side of Government department.

We are feeding one that subsidises the world.


The world is very wealthy, we are not and that is why we object to this funding MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Tupou Draunidalo and the question is, that Head 19 be decreased by $1 million in respect of Black Rock Integrated Peacekeeping Centre and that is under SEG 8.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 17 26 5 Proposed amendment is defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will move on to the next motion.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Tupou Draunidalo and the question is, that Head 19 be increased by $500,000 in respect of Local Training, SEG 5.

I will now ask Honourable Draunidalo to speak on that motion.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you Madam Chair.

The motion is basically so that the Military gets sufficient training in human rights issues.
There was a Parliamentary Committee that sat when the United Nations Treaty on Torture was discussed and people turned up there and gave their stories about how they were tortured and their human rights abused by the Fiji Military Forces which we give $170-odd million to, or I can recall $4 million every year for the last two or three years.
Giving them hundreds of millions of dollars, Madam Chair, I am sure we can spare $500,000 to include Human Rights Training so that they do not abuse the citizens of this country that pay their salaries.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 603 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone else want to speak on that motion?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chairperson, let me again clarify to the Honourable House that Human Rights Training in the RFMF is conducted by NGOs, particularly the Fiji Red Cross Society, and that has been an ongoing practice and it is still the case.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Anyone else would like to contribute to that?

Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chairperson, in the Standing Committee for Torture, just about every single individual who came in demanded or required training in this regard (human rights), and we only have to look back at our unfortunate experiences.

If the Military understands the rights of individuals, they would not have harboured, harboured someone who was under warrant.
They would have not employed these people and there would not have been violence, undue violence that had been carried out.

We need this training and that is needed for them to understand what they should do or where they should stop.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you Honourable Draunidalo, would you like to speak now in reply before we put the motion to the vote?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Yes, Madam Chair, I hear the Honourable Minister and what he said about the training from Red Cross, but again Madam Chair, as we have anecdotal evidence that has come and presented itself to the Parliamentary Committee, our citizens who have been tortured do not understand issues like, just very recently employing those who have been charged, but have not been convicted with torture like offences.
By employing them, obviously there is something missing there and $500,000, as I say in a big wide ocean of $170 million is really nothing to help them understand how to deal with civilians.

It is one thing to take a military officer and go and make him head of the law enforcement for civilian, but dealing with civilians is different to dealing with prisoners of war, so to speak.
Even though some of us do not condone at all the excuses that even modern countries use, like the United States torture on the prisoners of war, but they have a different setting.
Their mind set is different, Madam Chairperson, and since they are encroaching more and more into civilian life, it is a very little amount of money, in this context to give them $500,000, to make them understand (and should start at $500,000 a year) civilian thinking, civilian attitudes and what rights and obligations they have in dealing with civilians who pay their salaries.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Tupou Draunidalo and the question is, that Head 19 be increased by $500,000 in respect of local training SEG 5.

Parliament will now vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 604 Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 17 27 4 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will move on to the next one and Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

The question is, that Head 19 be increased to $15 million in respect of Head 19-1-1 SEG 4.

I ask the Honourable Ratu Tikoca to speak on that motion.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you Madam Chair, this is in regards to the raise of funding for RFMF Engineers.
We, on this side of the House, do all agree about the importance of RFMF Engineers but we are worried because of their involvement in civilian contracts and jobs that are available everywhere in Fiji.

We need to increase that so that they can actually participate and assist the road construction work and all other building developments in Fiji, sadly because we do not have PWD anymore.

When these contracts go; who is going to be localised to handle this?
During this transitional period, we need to transfer the knowledge of all these contractors coming from abroad to come in, so we need to integrate engineers into all those areas of development.

So, when that phase comes to a completion, we have engineers that can do civilian work and provide us that sort of facility.

Right now, there is nothing in there - no PWD.


Can we increase that, and engage engineers in all these contractors so that they can be able to provide that sort of services, infrastructural services when contractors from abroad return overseas?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Now which SEG are we referring to, that you want to increase to $15 million?

HON.

RATU.

I.D.

TIKOCA.- Head 19, Activity 4, Programme 1 - RFMF Engineers.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which SEG?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.-SEG 1.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- So you want Payment of Officers and Other Ranks Service Allowance; Remote Location Allowance and Explosive Allowance, which ones are we referring to?

HON.

MEMBER.- SEG 8.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 605 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head 19-1-4-8.

Alright, so from $200,000 you want to increase it to $15 million - RFMF Infrastructure and Amenities, Head 19-1-4 SEG 8.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Honourable Nawaikula!

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- The purpose, as clearly outlined, is to increase the capacity, to allow engineers to do the work that PWD used to, which are now being left to the sub- contractors who do not know anything.
Now, if you look at the Auditors Report 2014, everywhere where RFMF engineers have been involved in has been subject to criticism and the single note that the Auditor General stated is that “they lack capacities to complete that work from Korosi to Nabilai.
They lack capacity in the work that they are doing in Kadavu.” So we need to increase their capacity and what they have been left to do is that they get these contracts and they subcontract it again and making money in between, whereas we should be spending money to increase their capacity so that they can do that work.

I support that motion.

Everyone should support it, please!

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.


SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, we welcome the motion from the other side, but let us focus on the Budget allocation.

Let me assure the Honourable House that, that is why we have the Defence Review in place.

That will address the external and internal threats and that will look at the structure and from that, that will determine the allocation as well - whether we expand or decrease.
It will come before the House again when the Defence Review, so we will have an opportunity to debate on that later.

Therefore, let us focus on the allocation today.

Thank you.

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.

CAPT.

T.L.NATUVA.- Madam Chair, at the beginning of the year, the 3FIR numbers were reduced by 500, and additional to the Navy, to come up with the number to 500 and also the engineers to increase to 500.

With capacity building, we had the Chinese Government providing us with the machines.
When the Honourable Nawaikula mentioned lack in capacity, they were not lacking in capacity.

The money should be provided by Fiji Roads Authority, they do not lack capacity, they have capability to do the work they are supposed to do.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Ratu Tikoca would like to speak in reply.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 606 HON.

RATU.

I.D.

TIKOCA.- Yes, Madam Chair.


Thank you for the contributions to this discussion but the capacity we have to actually face the fact that we are short or lack capacity.

I am talking about the future.

The future is important so that we can transfer those knowledge to the RFMF Engineers, capacity like support in machines, handling all those machines and we need to do that, specifically because we do not have the PWD anymore.

Who is going to take up that responsibility?


Should we be hiring all the time from overseas companies and contractors?

What has happened, all the money that we pay overseas contractors have gone out, syphoned out, even the operational costs, the salaries of those people hired from abroad, it has gone back and it is no use to us.

We are dumping money.

Although we have infrastructure, neither do we have the capacity nor the people, the knowledge that they need.
When you invest on something rather than nothing, when you invest on something, you invest on human, knowledge so that they can actually take over.

That is why I am supporting my motion and increasing it to the amount written there.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

The question is, that Head 19-1-4 SEG.

8, be increased from $200,000 to $15 million.

Parliament will now vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.


Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 18 26 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will now move on to the next motion and the Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Tupou Draunidalo and the question is, that Head 19 be decreased by $460,000 in respect of basic recruiting course, SEG 7.

I will now give the floor to the Honourable Draunidalo to speak on her motion.

HON.

ROKO.

T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO.

T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, I will keep it short.

We have already said why we want to reduce the size of the Military and reduce their role in Fiji because of the costs that have come to the nation because of it and that means not recruiting any more personnel in the next year would be a good start and this basic recruit course would need to be there.
We want to demilitarise the State so that all of this money can be properly channelled into more useful things like health services and better schools, especially in rural areas, in the interior of Viti Levu and in the outer lying islands there are schools to be upgraded and made better and their roads, and that could be taken out of this Budget.

That is why I am moving it.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 607 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone else want to speak on that?

HON.


LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, let me just clarify, aging is an issue in the RFMF.

Firstly, those that have reached retirement age they have to be replaced, so this is one of the reasons why the RFMF, like any other institute has to conduct recruit training.

Secondly, the dynamics in the peacekeeping operations particularly have changed significantly.
We need a lot women in the Military and that is why there was a specific training this year and probably that will be the case again next year so these are the reasons why we need to have ….

Engineers, we have talked about them, the Trade Training School in the RFMF, this is to create skills enhancement in rural Fijians so that they can also go back, not employed but go back to their communities and contribute to nation-building and that is why there is continuation of training.

Thank you.
Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Now that we have had a comment, Honourable Draunidalo, you can speak and reply to that comment.

HON.

ROKO.

T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Briefly Madam Chair, it is not about replacing the old ladies and gentlemen who maybe leaving the Military Forces, just keep them at the level that has pegged them to, as I said our interest is in reducing the numbers so that the costs will be reduced and diverted to other areas of the State.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.


Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Tupou Draunidalo and the question is, that Head 19 be decreased by $460,000 in respect of Basic Training Course - SEG 7.

Parliament will now vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 17 27 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will now move on to the next motion.
Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Tupou Draunidalo and the question is, that Head 19 be decreased by $310,000 in respect of acting allowance.

I now ask the Honourable Draunidalo to speak on her motion.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, this $310,000 is a large amount of taxpayers’ money, again paid for by poor folks who pay direct and indirect taxes, and it is a 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 608 continuing feature in SEG 1 - all the way back to the 2013 Budget.

It is a worry why it has spent so long.

It could be a reflection of not a very good human resource management up at the camp, and again it boils down to wastage of public funds.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Does anyone else want to speak on that motion?

There is no right of reply, then we will go straight into the vote.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Tupou Draunidalo and the question is, that Head 19 be decreased by $310,000 in respect to the acting allowance.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 14 27 7 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will move on to the next motion.
Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

The question is, that Head 19-1-3 be decreased by $4 million in respect of Head 19-1-3.

I ask the Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca to speak on his motion.

HON.

RATU I. D. TIKOCA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I raise the Engineers’ allocation and reduce the Infantry’s allocation, and that is the reason why I have asked for that decrease so that we can transfer some for the Engineers.

That is all.
That is all.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to speak on that motion?

Thank you.

There being none, there will be no Right of reply, so we will go straight into the vote.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

The question is, that Head 19 be decreased by $4 million in respect of Head 19-1-3.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 17 27 4 Proposed amendment is defeated.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 609 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will now go onto the next motion.

The Parliament will vote on an amendment in the name of Honourable Mosese Bulitavu.

The question is, that Head 19, SEG 7 – Basic Recruitment Course, $460,000 be left out of Head 19.

I will ask the Honourable Bulitavu to speak of his motion.

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS.- Withdraw.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Withdraw.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Withdraw?

That has been withdrawn, thank you very much.


Parliament will now vote on Head No.

19.

The question is, that the amount of Head 19, Republic of Fiji Military Forces be approved.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- We have not gone to Activity 5 - Navy.

(Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I apologise for that.

Thank you, we have done the amendments and we are now moving on to Programme 1, Activity 5- Fiji Navy.

That is open for debate, does anyone want to speak on that Activity?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, with this Activity 5, in regards to the Naval Division, SEG 4, the allocation for fuel and oil is a little under $1 million for five patrol boats.

For 2016, one of the boats the Kiro will need $2 million injection for sea worthiness, I wonder if the Honourable Minister can confirm whether this allocation is adequate, considering Fiji’s large EEZ that needs to be regularly patrolled by the Navy.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.
HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, I think the allocation is sufficient and for the Kiro Patrol Boat - Life Extension Programme, it needs that amount in order to have it back on water.

It had some mechanical problems and that is why we require that money.
For the EEZ, we have enough patrol boats in the programme that we have in order to patrol our EEZ now that the assistance of the other countries are online, and the Navy are programming itself for those surveillance flights and also the patrol of our EEZ.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Ratu Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, we are Members of the Standing Committee on the Foreign Affairs and Defence and most of what you said is not correct.
There is an urgent need since there are only two boats floating and the rest is in the harbour.

We need more boats, we need patrols on the territorial waters and the EEZ.

It is very important that we increase your allocation so that you can buy more boats to be able to fulfil your role and the 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 610 two Units that are useful to this country - the Navy and the Engineers.
That is why I am asking for their boats to be increased and I do not think we have enough boats to actually cater for them.

(Inaudible Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Of course, there is a need for more boats but this fuel request is sufficient for the boats that are currently operating.

We will need more fuel allocation when there are more boats, so, this is justified.

We are talking about the fuel allocation!

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, the information that Honourable Tikoca had is a bit obsolete because the information that we have at the moment, with one of the countries assisting us, that the two patrol boats; Kula and Kikau will be refitted that will be worth about $11 million.

Also, the Pacific patrol boat new programme for the new fleets to come into Fiji, not only for Fiji but for other Pacific islands as well, are much bigger boats.

That is the current arrangement at the moment.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments on 19-1-5?

If there is none, we will move on to Activity 6 – 19-1-6.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO- On SEG 8, I just wanted to ask the Honourable Minister, we have heard that the Navy is interested in acquiring a new Naval Base.

Why is there no allocation in 2016 under SEG 8 to cater for that new Naval Base?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, at this moment in time, the RFMF is working with the Government of China and these issues have been pending for 18 months now.

We have to come up with a proposition because China is going to provide us a new naval base.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any more comments?

We will move on to Activity 6 - are there any comments on Activity 6, there being none we will move on to Activity 9.

Any comments on Activity 9?

Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.


DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, the staffing allocation for 2016 for FTG is pegged at about $5.5 million.

In 2013, prior to Black Rock being set up or proposed to be set up, staffing allocations were about $4.3 million.

Can the Honourable Minister advise whether the increase in FTG costs in SEG 1 on the staffing allocation is in relation to personnel that are designated for Black Rock as well?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 611 HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Thank you Madam Chair.

FTG looks after local training within the whole of RFMF, including all units.

The training for peacekeeping is done at Black Rock.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

Thank you we are looking at Activity 10 now.

Any comments on Activity 10?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you there being no other motions, we will move on to the Head.

Parliament will now vote on Head No.

19.

The question is at the amount of Head 19 – Republic of Fiji Military Forces be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

HON.

MEMBERS,- Yes.

There being opposition, Parliament will now vote on the motion.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 27 15 6 Head 19 agreed to.
Head 20 – Fiji Police Force MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head 20 is up for debate.

We will go on to Activity 1 – do you have any comments on Activity 1?

Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister tell the House if all outstanding payouts due to the police officers have been sorted and paid in full?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.

CAPT.

T.L.


NATUVA.- Madam Chair, I need the Honourable Member to clarify and repeat her question.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON- Which SEG are you referring to?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 612 HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Within the Personal emoluments SEG 1 – the outstanding payments due to police officers, have they been paid out, or included in this allocation?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, these are personal emoluments for next year.

HON.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, just a supplementary question.

Can I, through you ask the Honourable Minister whether the balance of the back pay that has not been paid to many of the police officers are not part of that allocation there?

Is it a separate allocation?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON CAPT.

T.L.


NATUVA.- From my understanding, all allowance are being paid, except the lodging allowance at the moment which is with the Minister of Finance to finalise of about $0.5 million.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which is not included?

HON.

CAPT T.L.

NATUVA.- Yes.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, if I can clarify that.

The Honourable Minister is correct, the back pays have been sorted out.
There were some issues with the lodging allowance, that in fact were affected by the fact that some of them did not receive the back pay on time.

At the moment, the Ministry of Finance officials, together with the Police Association and the Police Force itself and of course the new Acting Commissioner of Police who has taken a special interest in getting this matter resolved very quickly, it should all be sorted out by next week or so.
So, that obviously has been catered for from this year’s funding and that should be resolved within a week or so.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any more, Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, still on personal emoluments, this is not about back pay.

My question is on outstanding meal on SEG 1 Personal Emoluments.

(Inaudible Interjections) No, in the past years!

SEG 1 - Personal Emoluments.

HON.

MEMBER.- Yes, what about it?

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- In the whole of Fiji, Madam Chair, overtime has been incurred and owed to Special Constables and Police Constables.

You only have to ask the 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 613 Police in the area and they will give you the list.

Is that amount covered in this Budget for next year?

Will you be paying their outstanding payment that is due, for example, overtime.
Is that part of this or not, because if not, then I would like to move a motion that this be increased to cover that.

[INTERJECTIONS] Overtime, I am talking about overtime for Special Constables and Police Constables all over the country.

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, the overtime that the Honourable Member is referring to, the headquarters have still not received the information.
They have to go on through all these years overtime and justify whether it is the true time that they had and that they are still working on that.

They had to produce the document to us before we can decide on what we are going to do.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Leawere.

HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Madam Chair, I just want to ask the Honourable Minister about the Lodging Allowance on SEG 1 – are the Special Constables are included in that special allowance of lodging allowance?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- No, they are not included in that.

HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- May I ask why, Madam Chair.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA..- Because that is the condition when they came in as Special Constables.
What we are trying to do at the moment is that we had about 2000 Special Constables but they did not have the required training that they should have, and we had the last batch of Special Constables integrated into the Police Force and I think we just finished the second batch.
What we are trying to do is rather than having a special constable who were doing also the work of the regular force to go back to the situation that we just have the Regular Force and then the Special Constable can just come in whenever required like in Hibiscus time, but in the past years what has been happening, they have been conducting the roles of a Regular Force without the proper training.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

I now give the floor to the Honourable Vadei.

HON.
HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is, through you to the Honourable Minster.

(Laughter) If the money was available for Special Constables, why was there a delay in the payment?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 614 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, there was no money available.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.


RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair, 21-1-1, SEG 1 - Re- engagement Bonus, $57,515.

Can the Honourable Minister elaborate or explain to us what is really the bonus here for the re-engagement, probably of officers?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Also Madam Chair, for clarification, if we can also ask the Relieving Allowance of $122,700.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.


Clarification on two allocations - Re-engagement Bonus and Relieving Allowance.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, the re-engagement bonuses, this has been the practice in the past 20 to 30 years.

It is also the same in Military, when they re-engage for a further period of three years, they are given these bonuses.

The bonuses is for their past performance and after that, they sign a contract and continue.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON- Okay.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.


BULITAVU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

Just to go back to what the Honourable Minister for Defence had said about the Special Police Constables and the plans to redundant them and to bring them whenever the necessity arises.
These people have got experiences along the way, but what I wanted to say is this, most of the new recruits who are coming to our Police Stations, these Special Constables they perform better than the new recruits, in regards to taking statements, charging violence.
The new ones, they are trying to familiarise with police procedures, whether that could be reconsidered too, that experience and how they can be upgraded and they should not be discriminated in a way that the time they spend in service should be wasted and how can they be absorbed into the system so that they have a fair share too.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Members, I think you are moving out of focus in the way we should be debating this.
We should really be focusing on the Budget increase, decrease and any question on past performances can be brought into the House through another Parliamentary process, but let us focus on the Budget that we have here.

I will now give the floor to the Honourable Vadei.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to move a motion without notice under Standing Order 100 (2) that Head 20, SEG 1 regarding the special constabulary allowances and salaries be increased to $3 million.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 615 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you and fill the form.

I now give the floor to Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

It’s clearly stated that crimes need to be properly investigated, wrong doers need to be quickly identified and cases need to be brought to task through the criminal judiciary system.

To do this, Fiji needs a Police Force that is professional, well equipped and trained.
I was just looking at the different programmes and activities, Madam Chair and I just want a clarification from the Honourable Minister.

One of the things we have had difficulty with and we have had this admitted by the Honourable Minister in the past that there are not enough police vehicles.
I looked at under Programme 1 and there are various others under SEG 9, Activity 1 Programme 1, purchase of specialised vehicle and I looked at the spare parts but I do not see any specific allocation in any of the SEGs which says that this will be specifically for purchase of new vehicles.

I know both the Honourable Minister of Finance when we asked this question earlier this year and the Honourable Minister for Defence promised that they would be taking this into account in the 2016 Budget.
However, I do not see any specific allocation to increase or purchase a number of vehicles.

I need clarification from the Honourable Minister.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, at the end of this month, the Police will receive 30 new vehicles.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I will now give the floor to the Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Just a clarification, Madam Chair.


On the personal emoluments, there is a prosecution allowance that appears there and does not appear elsewhere.

Could I have an explanation in relation to that for clarification on prosecution allowance?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Which Programme?

HON.

NIKO NAWAIKULA.- SEG 1 - the last item.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The last item on SEG 1 - 20-1-1 SEG 1 HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- This allowance is provided for the police prosecutors.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I now give the floor to the Honourable Bulitavu.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 616 HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Again, Madam Chair, SEG 9, it would be considered as special projects, but they are very important to policing, Quality Assurance Systems for the Forensic Bio and DNA Lab, et cetera but they are all under “R”.
So these are equipment that really are needed now with the Police, but whether this allocation, these equipment and these projects will come into being, we are still not sure, but in order to enforce and enhance the Police Force, what does the Minister say in regards to all these programmes being under “R”.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- The Fiji Police Force had been working in trying to get this equipment from the last two years.
We are just waiting for the money and then we are going to do the process.

It is allocated in the Budget for 2016 and we will purchase in the first quarter.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, on SEG 1, I wonder if the Honourable Minister could tell us, what is the current number of police officers in Fiji and he mentioned the vehicles that would be delivered at the end of this month, could he tell us where it is funded from?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Your question is, how many police officers we have in the country?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, I do not have the numbers.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- And what is your second question?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- The second question is in regards to the Police vehicles and where they will be funded from?

Madam Chair, my colleagues have talked about those important equipment that is all under “R”; SEGs 8 and 9, but SEG 7 is not under “R”.
If the Honourable Minister could enlighten us on what this Institutional Strengthening ($250,000) is?

Commanders’ Conference - $20,000; and Pacific Commissioners Conference - $100,000, SEG 7, - not under “R”.

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, at the end of this month, the Police will receive 30 new vehicles.

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.

CAPT.

T.L.


NATUVA.- The allocation for the 30 vehicles will be from this year’s Budget and whether it is “R” or not “R”, that is the prerogative of the Ministry of Finance.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 617 HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, can I make a clarification.

If you look at Head 50, which we will come to, normally leasing of vehicles is in Head 50.
That is where it supplies, for example, Agriculture and Police will be getting a batch of the new vehicles that normally is parked under Head 50.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

ROKO.

T.T.S DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, SEG 7 is about the Pacific Commissioners’ Conference ($100,000), Commanders’ Conference ($20,000) and the Institutional Strengthening ($250,000) - SEG 7.

Can the Honourable Minister enlighten us on that before we move the motion?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


For all the Pacific Commissioners’ Conference.

all the Pacific Commissioners in the Pacific they have a conference, including Australia and New Zealand.

They normally attend this conference to share new information and new intelligence information about the work they do.

This has been the norm for the last past years and it is not a new thing to have this Pacific Commissioners’ Conference and also the other conference that they attend.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Prem Singh.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Madam Chair, just a clarification on SEG 1.

Fringe Benefit Tax of $840,000 for Police, compared to the Military, it is only $92,000.

What are the benefits do Police enjoy apart from the mobile phones?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would assist the Honourable Minister for Immigration, National Security and Defence, fringe benefits also include housing.
So for those who are given quarters, that is where the fringe benefits is for that purpose.

If I may also assist in the previous question raised by the Honourable Draunidalo on institutional strengthening because it is in my Ministry as well.

We have a lot of Police outposts and agriculture stations in rural areas.

They are the image of Government and the institution.

Unfortunately, they are not properly equipped.


They do not have laptops, multi-medias and you will find all the left over chairs from other Government ministries.

They do not have a conference table.

We need to equip them so that they can deliver as well, and that is why Government give allocations, particularly for ministries that have outposts in rural areas.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Leawere.

HON.

M.R.
HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Madam Chair, I just want to ask the Honourable Minister to clarify the Education Programme, does this include officers who attend tertiary institutions?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which SEG are you referring to, Honourable Member?

HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Madam Chair, SEG 5 on Force Education Programme.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 618 HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, Police training is an onward programme, where new ideas of doing things come online and continuous training in order to upgrade the intellect is for this allocation.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, are there any other comments?

We will move on to Activity 2.

Honourable Ratu Matanitobua.

HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chair, SEG 8.


The Honourable Minister of Finance, Public Enterprises, Public Service and Communications has mentioned in his Budget Address about Beqa Police Post.

Honourable Minister, I hope this allocation is for next year, and as mentioned by the Honourable Minister, the outcome for the landowners, the leasing of land, are you sure that this will not be brought up next year and you can confirm that it will happen next year?

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Honourable Member, you help us in facilitating that and we just hope that it will be happen.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Are there any other comments?

Activity 2.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

It is a motion under Standing Order 100 (2), to increase the allocation of the Budget for Head 20 by adding the allocation for FICAC.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Member, do you want a new allocation?

HON.
HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, to increase the Head 20 budget from FICAC to be absorbed there.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- How much?

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Whatever is in the FICAC.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- You want to get rid of FICAC?

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Yes, get rid of FICAC, it is a duplication.

HON.

MEMBER OF THE HOUSE.- (Inaudible) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments?

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Madam Chair, SEG 8.


Can I just have a clarification from the Honourable Minister on the construction of Beqa Community Post and quarters of which there is an allocation of $710,000?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 619 HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, that question was asked by Honourable Ratu Matanitobua.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Ratu Matanitobua has agreed to negotiate land and so on to facilitate the construction.

[LAUGHTER] Are there any other comments?


HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Thank you, vinaka.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, I just want an update on the construction of Valelevu Police Station because when you go past Valelevu Police Station, has work on the ground commenced?

HON.

CAPT T.L.

NATUVA.- Actually what are you trying to ….

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- When you go past Valelevu Police Station, I think work has already commenced there.

The old Police Station is relocated somewhere so I am asking the Honourable Minister whether there is $2.3 million also included in the ongoing work to upgrade the Valelevu Police Station or is it a total ….

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Madam Chair, that is correct.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments on Activity 1, Activity 2, Activity 3?

Honourable Vadei.

HON.


A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, to Activity 1, SEG 9.

[INTERJECTIONS] on the high number of accidents on our roads and the drunken drivers on the road and the number of equipment that the Police will purchase and I just want to ask the Honourable Minister, whether they have sufficient Budget for 2016?

in relation HON.

GOVT.

MEMBERS: Yes!

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- You are not the Minister!

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- Yes, Madam Chair.

HON.


V. NATH.- Madam Chair, I feel enough questions have been asked because we moved from Activity 1, so we should proceed to Activity 2 now.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I would rather open Activity 1,2,3,4 until everyone has had their input with whatever input they have.

So, Activity 3 and Activity 4?

Honourable Karavaki.

HON.

S. KARAVAKI.- Madam Chair, can I just follow up on Activity 1, SEG 9.
It is about the Traffic Management Equipment because, as I understand, Madam Chair, that in the 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 620 past, the traffic radar used to be taken to Australia for calibration.

Looking at this, I just want a clarification of this, if that is still the case now, we have the capacity now locally to do it because if not, I would like to move a motion.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- On the Traffic Management Equipment - $350,000, is that sufficient, we will manage it locally, we have the capacity here.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, I was involved in all these traffic equipment before.

The costs highlighted here is not enough for that calibration of those equipment because I used to take this equipment to Australia but the cost is very high.
That is why I am asking the Honourable Minister, whether that is sufficient enough before we pass the motion in this Parliament.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I think the question has been answered.

The Honourable Minister has said “Yes, they have the capacity here to deal with that”.

Thank you, any other comments?

HON.


J. USAMATE.- One request, if we have gone past one activity, we should not be penalised for the fact that some people were not here when that Activity was being discussed, so after doing Activity 1, once that is over, we should move on to Activity 2.

We should not be penalised for the fact that people were not here and taking us back to one Activity.

Once we are finished with one Activity, let us keep moving.

Let us not go back and forwards.


(Inaudible Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I would like to give Honourable Members all the opportunity they have to scrutinise this and this is the objective of this so we would like to go on.

We deal with each Sub-Head including all the activities so if you want to go back to Activity 1, I would rather give you the freedom to do so.
However, we now move on to Activities 3 and 4 so that we can move on and be organised but, please, Honourable Members, just take note of the concerns that have been raised.

Do not go outside and then come back and take us back to Activity 1.

There are no comments for Activity 3?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- I want to go back to Activity 2, Madam Chair, SEG 7 with regards to CID Funds, $150,000 because CID normally does the major investigations on major fraud and major crime and even drugs.
When you go up to Activity 1, SEG 7, another allocation has been given there - Major Investigations - $50,000.

Can the Honourable Minister justify these two funds - $150,000 for CID which also does major investigations and major investigations a separate allocation of $50,000 and this is under SEG 7, Activity 1.

Are these investigations different?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA.- The CID Funds of $150,000 is to facilitate payment for criminal informants to assist in the investigations of serious crimes that have been slim lead but are of national interest.

CID Personnel have been increased together with the responsibility of 70 per cent detection rate using the system.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 621 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Major investigations - $50,000.
I think, Honourable Members, if you look at all these allocations, that is the allocation under the Police Headquarters, this is another allocation for Crime Investigation Department.

These are two different allocations and if we are to be questioning whether this should be the other way round then we are moving into ….

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, what I wanted is the funds that are there in Major Investigations in Activity 1, when there is a CID Investigation involving a case of national security, those funds are available, does it operate that way?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- That is how I read it.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Programme 1, Activity 1 is Head Office - Police Headquarters.
There may be certain investigations that have been really large that need to be coordinated through the National Head Office too, so that is what the $50,000 is for.

That is why it is a lesser amount than CID.

CID, Programme 1, Activity 2- that is for the day to day running of the operations, so when you have a major investigation that requires the Head Office to be more involved, that is where the funding comes from.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 3, Activity 4?

HON.

CAPT.

T.L.
HON.

CAPT.

T.L.

NATUVA- I just want to add that, that is for the Task Force at Headquarters for the major investigations.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any comments on Activities 3 and 4?

If there is none, then we will go on to motions and on the first motion, Parliament will vote on the motion in the name of the Honourable Dulakiverata and the question is, that Head 20 be increased by $8,450,987 in respect of the whole Head 20.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Dulakiverata, would you like to speak on that motion?

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Thank you, Madam Chair, my colleague just talked about the CID and General Investigations and the same thing is carried out by the FICAC, so I think the FICAC should be scrapped and all these police works be carried out by the Police Force, and that is why there is an increase in allocation so that all the allocation for the FICAC be given to the Police, scrap that Unit, thank you.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to speak on that motion?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- What a preposterous suggestion.

Madam Chair, if the Honourable Member had actually read the law in question, he would know that FICAC does not prosecute all police criminal matters.

They do not do rape, they do not do domestic violence, they do not do theft as we know it, they do not grievous bodily harm, they do not do 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 622 murder.
They do corruption related matters which also includes forgery, fraud and also investigations on making false declarations.

These are the kinds of things that they do so, Madam Chair, we also have ratified the United Nations Convention against Corruption and we are obligated to have an independent Corruption Commission.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Would you like to respond to that?

HON.
HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, I thank the Honourable Minister for that explanation but I think the police should be equipped to carry out all those tasks that is being carried out by FICAC.

Now, we heard that they are getting the forensic equipment, et cetera, that will help them in their investigations and we can upgrade and train people so that we do not have too many duplications.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Would you like to respond to that?

HON.
HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, I thank the Honourable Minister for that explanation but I think the police should be equipped to carry out all those tasks that is being carried out by FICAC.

Now, we heard that they are getting the forensic equipment, et cetera, that will help them in their investigations and we can upgrade and train people so that we do not have to have too many duplications.

Thank you, Madam Chair.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Dulakiverata.

The question is that, Head 20 be increased by $8,480,987 in respect of the whole Head.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 26 6 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- On the next one, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Anare Vadei.
The question is, that Head 20-1 be increased by $3 million in respect of Special Constables, SEG 7.

Hon.

Vadei, would you like to speak on that motion?

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

When the Honourable Minister was asked on the delay of payment to Special Constabulary, the answer given was that it was due to the unavailability of funds.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 623 Secondly, we have returned to democracy.
We do not need military personnel in the police posts or Tourist Police.

We need Police Constabulary to man those areas.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone want to speak on that motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Then, there will be no Right of reply, but we will go straight into the vote.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable AnareVadei.
The question is, that Head 20-1 be increased by $3 million in respect of Special Constables – SEG 7.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 17 27 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We are done away with Activities 1,2,3,4, let us not go back to those Activities.

We will now move on to the following Activity, and this is to the Divisions.

We will go on to Activity 5 – Eastern Division.

Does anyone have any comments to make?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 6 – Western Division, does anyone have any comment to make?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 7 – Northern Division.

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 8 - Central Division.

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Wonderful, thank you very much.

Activity 9 - Police Special Response Unit.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 624 HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 10 – Support Services.

HON.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being none, the Parliament will now vote on Head 20.

The question is that, the amount of Head 20 – Fiji Police Force be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being some opposition, Parliament will now vote on Head 20.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 28 15 5 Head 20 agreed to.

Head 21 – Ministry of Education, Heritage and Arts MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head 21 is open for debate.

HON.

RO T.V.
HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Madam Chairperson, Head 21, Programme 1, Activity 1, SEG 6 on the National Substance Abuse Advisory Council, I beg to move a motion there under Standing Orders 100 (2) that Head 21-1-1-6 be increased in respect of this Council, to enable them to increase their coverage for schools throughout Fiji.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You are talking about the National Substance Abuse Advisory Council to increase to $1million.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Yes.


I am moving a motion that their allocation be increased to cover… MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- By how much?

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.-To at least $1 million, Madam Chairperson.

If that can be taken from the bus fare assistance.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you and you will speak on that later.

Any other comment on Activity 1?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 625 HON.
A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chairperson, just request the Honourable Minister to elaborate on this new Expenditure Item in SEG 21-1-9 – Digital Literacy Programme in the sum of $2million.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chairperson, the Digital Literacy Programme has unfortunately, Members are not following what we are doing.

Last week, the Honourable Prime Minister launched Digital Education Programme Framework to begin next year to roll out throughout Fiji.
But it will start to roll out next year, or it will take about three to four years to cover all the schools.

The $2 million is to work with the internet, Microsoft to get the programme into our secondary schools.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other questions?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

We will go on to Activity 2.

HON.


A.M. RADRODRO.- SEG 8 on the similar allocation – Maintenance and School Institution Quarters of $1.5million, if I can get clarification from the Minister on this exercise.

HON.
HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chairperson, as you again Members could be noting he is one of those Members who would be giving me small notes about helping schools in his area, that is a small amount there are other amounts for boarding schools and non-boarding schools as well, to assist repair and maintenance of school quarters.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 2, any comments on Activity 2?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 3?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 2- Activity 1, HON.
MEMBERS.- No MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 2 – Activity 2?

Hon.

Leader of Opposition?

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- This is in terms of the Free Milk Programme, Madam Chairperson, Head 21, Programme 2, Activity 1- SEG 5 on the Free Milk Programme.

I would like to substitute fresh fruit and juice instead of that, this is in accordance with protection against NCDs.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 626 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, that is something entirely new, we cannot accommodate it into this because the Budget has already agreed to Free Milk Programme, and we will have to talk on that milk.

[INTERJECTIONS] Any other thing, can come under Substantive Motion in the other Parliamentary process.

You want to remove?

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Yes.

To remove that Free Milk Programme under SEG 5- Programme 2, Activity 5.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, we can only remove, you want to remove, please fill the form.

Any other activities, programmes?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- SEG 6- what is the purpose for this salary grant for Early Childhood Education Teachers?

.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- My supplementary question to that, Madam Chairperson, again they are not aware that we are providing salary now to pay the salary of ECE Teachers and EC centres throughout Fiji.

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chairperson, Programme 1, Activity 1, SEG 6, there is a reduction from $22million to $21million and corresponding to that in SEG 6 in relation to bus fares, it is $19 million.

Is there a decrease or increase in relation to that?

Can you confirm whether it is going up or coming down?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chairperson, the bus fare was there last year, so based on the experience this is the allocation we have made this year.
(Inaudible Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other?

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Programme 2, Activity 1, SEG 10 – Building Grant, Early Childhood Education $200,000, can the Minister please elaborate on enlighten us which schools and the recipient of this building grant.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, if it is outside the primary schools that may need assistance, they will write to us we will provide partial assistance to support them.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 627 HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- On SEG 6 - Salary Grant for Early Childhood Education, Madam Chair.

If the Honourable Minister could clarify in terms of the teachers for the pre- schools.

Since the Education Minister has said that their plan or part of their reform is to have early childhood attached to every primary school.

How is he going to allocate for that in terms of this amount that he has - $3.3 million.
Just a point to clarify.

HON.

DR.M.

REDDY.- Madam Chair, this is the amount allocated this year, that does not mean that this amount was exhausted last year.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Anymore comments?

Programme 2, Activity 3, HON.

MEMBERS.- No MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 4?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 3 – Secondary Education, Activity 1?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 2?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 3, Activity 3?

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Just on SEG 6, Head 21-2-1.

You get that right.

HON.

GOVT.

MEMBERS.- You are going back!

HON.

DR.B.C.

PRASAD.- No, we are still there after the Leader of the Opposition.

Come on .

… (Chorus of Interjections) HON.

DR.B.C.

PRASAD.- Do not rush!

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We have finished with that.

HON.

DR.B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, after the Leader of the Opposition raised that $3.3 million I was going to ask the second one, number 2.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You can speak on that one, that activity but do not go back.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 628 HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I am not going back.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Good, thank you.

Which one are you referring to now?

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- I think the Leader of the Opposition asked the question… MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- No, your question?

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- I am saying Head 21-2-1 SEG 6, I am still on SEG 6 and the question is, how many students are likely to benefit from the tuition subsidy grant for pre- school that is $1.4 million.

That is the first question and then depending on the Honourable Minister’s answer, I will move a motion.

HON.

DR.M.

REDDY.- Exactly, I cannot say, approximately $30,000 throughout Fiji.

HON.

DR.B.C.
HON.

DR.B.C.

PRASAD.- In that case, Madam Chair let me move a motion pursuant to Standing Order 102 and I move without notice that Head 21 SEG 6, that the allocation be increased by $500,000 and the words “free education from year 1 to year 8” be deleted and replaced with the words ” free tuition, year 1 to 8”.

HON.

MEMBER.- You cannot do that!

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- The reason why this is important, Madam Chair… HON.

MEMBER.- It’s not important!

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You can only change the budget.
Not the wording.

That has to come from… HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- …if you do not change the wording and this is what I want to say.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You are not changing the wording.

Are you changing the Budget?

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, the wording is incorrect.

Tuition Free is not free education.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We are not changing the wording HON.

MEMBER.- Listen to Madam Chair!

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- You cannot lie on the basis of the Constitution.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 629 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We are not changing the wording HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- The Constitution says you must be truthful and the truth about free education, is tuition free is not free education.

(Chorus of Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, can you please stick to Standing Orders 100 under which this Committee of Supplies is sitting.
This is quite clear that anybody has the liberty to move an amendment to the amounts that has been put under the various Heads, the Programme and the Activity.

That is all.

Madam Chair, the Budget that is presented by the Government, the Opposition has the ability to have the input into the Estimates.

That is why it is called the Estimates.

HON.

MEMBER.- It can be a typing error HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Typing error is very different to change the wording and the meaning of it.. (Laughter) HON.
DR.B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, just one last point I want to make is that, the Government ought to get its terminology right because if they do not get it right it is tantamount to a lie.

Tuition free is not free education.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

DR.M.

REDDY.- Madam Chair, if you go to a shop to buy a particular product.

If they give the product and the shopkeeper does not charge you money that is a free good.

You go to a classroom to get education - a service.
(Chorus of Interjections) HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- You enter the classroom, no fees is asked to get this particular service.

That is free education.

(Chorus of Interjections) If you leave home to go to school no one is asking you money to go and study there.

HON.

DR.B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I am thoroughly amazed and I must say that my erstwhile colleague, never stops embarrassing me and this is one example.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 630 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you and we will move on to activity.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Madam Chair on SEG 9.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which Programme and Activity?

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Activity 1 on SEG 9, this is primary school water tanks.

This is being mindful of the Minister for Agriculture telling us about the drought that we are going to maybe, facing in December.
What the Minister for Education had said last year, that there would be an additional $50,000 in 2016 but the budget allocation is the same here.

Therefore, what is he going to do about it, in terms of this drought situation that is coming in terms of the schools looking forward to water tanks?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Well, let me tell you something, water tanks are not consume every year.

Last year, we provided them with the number of water tanks.
This year another set of schools are going to get the water tanks.

It is not something like milk or Wheat Bix that you eat every year and you have to provide new lot.

This is for new schools.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

We move on now.

Programme 4, Activity 2 on Page 139.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Activity 21-3-1, SEG 1.

Can the Minister elaborate why the different categories, or category 1, 2 under SEG 1?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

DR.M.
HON.

DR.M.

REDDY.- Madam Chair, rural definition is different from rural, interior and remote islands.

That is why.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any others?

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, so which one is rural and which category is non-rural?

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- You talked about the same amount.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, we move on to Programme 4, Activity 2, page 139.

Any comments?

Programme 4, Activity 3 - School Broadcast Unit.

Honourable Vadei.

HON.


A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, on that Programme and Activity 3, SEG 5 - School Broadcast Programme of $40,000.

Which Broadcasting Commission that we use here?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 631 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- We use Radio Fiji.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Just to follow up on that regarding the accessibility of that FBC, whether it has got a wide coverage; 80 per cent, 90 per cent?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.


DR.M.

REDDY.- Madam Chair, from the survey we have done two years ago, it has got a widest reach.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Could a clarification be given on SEG 5, Curriculum Framework $600,000.

Could you clarify that?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head 21-4-1 on page 137.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, again I think the Honourable Member does not listen to Ministerial Statements and my speech.
We are continuously revising the curriculum.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- You answer because otherwise I will move a motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.

A. M. RADRODRO.- Head 21-3-1-6.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Going back?

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- I was there all the time.

Page 135 - Remission of fees of $200,000 and then there is Free Education.

What is this remission of fees and then what is free education?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.


DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, it is for secondary boarding schools.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- On the same, Head 21-3-1-10 – Boarding Facilities for Registered Secondary Schools - $400,000.

Does that include the Rewa House Dormitory at QVS that was burnt - replacement building?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 632 HON.
DR. M. REDDY.- It is not only for one specific school, it is for various schools.

(Inaudible interjection) No, we cannot confirm the number now.

It will be based on applications.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- My question is, does this allocation includes the building replacement of the dormitory at QVS?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Have you received an application from QVS to replace that?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, QVS work has started.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Okay, let us move forward.


Activity 1, Programme 5 - page 141.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Head 21-5-1-6 – page 141.

The Honourable Minister may want to explain how many schools will be covered under this tuition fee free for TVET of $1,250,500.

Let me thank the Honourable Minister for being transparent here because he is actually calling it correctly, he is saying “free tuition” for TVET and not “free education” for TVET.
Let me also say the Honourable Minister should take time to explain, I do not think he should rush too much.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The onus is on the Honourable Minister to respond the way he wants.

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBER.- Just relax.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, we have got vocational programmes run throughout Fiji - 70 centres.

Out of that around 30 will be closed because we are now establishing 8 more, which means 11 centres throughout Fiji.

So, therefore 30 will be closed, this is for 40.


HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Just another quick question on SEG 7 under the same Head, Programme and Activity.

Honourable Minister, what is the E-learning programme with $200,000.

I heard you explain that on some occasions but can you tell us what this $200,000 would be put to and what are the components of E-Learning and how effective you think it would be with $200,000?

HON.
HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, we have the TEST Section which consists of the Technical Units in the high school such as Home Economics, Computer, IT and Industrial Arts.

This E-learning is for the computer laboratories for computer classes in secondary schools from Year 9 to Year 13.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 633 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, I just wish to have my motion noted in relation to Head 21-4-1.

HON.

GOVT.
HON.

GOVT.

MEMBER.- No, we are in 5.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- We can go back because this is very important.

HON.

GOVT.

MEMBERS.- No!

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- This is a motion, before we move forward, if my motion can be recorded that we can come back so I can talk on it.

I need to move this motion, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Fill up the form.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- It is in relation to curriculum development, we need to improve this.

That is a reason why a lot of our students fail.


We need to improve our curriculum, so I need a motion to increase the allocation in relation to Head 21-4-1-5.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments on Programme 5, Activity 3?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 6, Activity 1?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 7, Activity 1?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 8, Activity 1?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

HON.

M.R.. LEAWERE.- Programme 4, Activity 1, SEG 5.


Can we just have an explanation from the Honourable Minister on the new assessment framework?

HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Page 137.

HON.

CDR.

S.T.

KOROILAVESAU.- Oh my god!

We are on page 142.

Very slow.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 634 HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, we have introduced exams.

This has been rolled over from the previous assessment framework to look after the exams preparation.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We are onto Programme 9, Activity 1 - page 147.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, Programme 9, SEG 6.

I see, Honourable Minister, there is an allocation of $100,000 for the Levuka Town Council Grant.

My question is, the grant does not seem to be reflective of what I have read in the media, the huge repair work that would be required.
I am just wondering whether that is enough because we have declared Levuka a World Heritage Site and I have not seen much being done, Madam Chair, to really upgrade the facilities there.

Because that comes under Culture and Heritage, I think SEG 6 and SEG 10, maybe I can ask the Honourable Minister straight away that as well.

How many buildings do you propose to upgrade using the Upgrade Levuka World Heritage Structures of $408,000 and whether that is enough?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I think what is already in the budget is what they think is enough.

What about you, would you like to increase or decrease?

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, and then I will move a motion.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, unfortunately it is wrong line item which is SEG 6 and SEG 10.

Actually the Levuka Heritage Site Upgrade is represented in SEG 7.

That is enough money, we have also invested this year, and this is for next year.

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, it is actually SEG 10.

In that case, let me move the motion, pursuant to Standing 100 (2), I move without notice that Head 21 SEG 10 under the Upgrade Levuka World Heritage Structures be increased to $800,000 to help fully restore buildings and historic structures in Levuka.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Which building do you know?

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Yes I know.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Which one.

HON.

DR. B.C.


PRASAD.- I will give you the… MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you any more comments we will speak on that in detail later.

HON.

P. KUMAR.- Madam Chair, just to add on to my colleague there is a Heritage Council in Levuka that may have just expired and under my Ministry.

I am going to appoint the members for that Committee, but let me tell you why we have got that figure because we also get overseas funding on that because it is world heritage.
We have got a council so that is why that money is enough.

Annually we get funding from them.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 635 HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBER.- How much?

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- $200,000 to $300,000.

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBER.- Bullshit.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- What do you mean bullshit, who said bullshit?

What do you mean?

Do not say “bullshit”!

(Laughter) HON.

MEMBER.- Do not lie!

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

I think that is clarified Honourable Biman Prasad.


Any other comments?

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- On page 145 on Programme 8, SEG 5 on Examinations.

You have that, Madam Chair?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, thank you.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- You are going back?

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- We are not going back because we did not go there at all.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- We did.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- You are not the Chair.

Madam Chair, in terms of exams.


So many things are going wrong with Exams and I wish the Honourable Minister would take note and also the Honourable Acting Prime Minister as he has had to make a media statement on Year 6 exams.

We are hearing from the teachers that there are aspects of the exams that are not in the syllabus for that particular year, for example, Year 7 that had the Year 8 syllabus included in their exams.
So, he needs to look at that particular unit because he has taken exams away from the Exams Unit and placed it with the Curriculum Development Unit which we looked at earlier.

The officers in the Exams Unit are specially trained to look at the assessment and evaluation.
I wish he would look at that, Madam Chair, instead of trying to argue because the teachers will say differently from what he has stated and he will have to make media statements in regard to each of the exams, so I just wish you would take note of that.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

I am sure the Honourable Minister has taken note.

Any more comments?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 636 HON.
A.T. VADEI.- Thank you Madam Chair, Head 21-9-1-10 and Head 21-1-1-10 – there are two upgradings; Building Grant – School Heritage Sites Levuka and Upgrade Levuka World Heritage Structures.

What is the difference and what are the sites mentioned here?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Levuka Public is the first school in Fiji, that is different.

This is dealing with non-school heritage sites, whole of Levuka listed in the world heritage list.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Can we just go back to Programme 8, Activity 1, SEG 5?

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.

- No!

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- You just listen to him.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Very important, Madam Chair.

HON.

DR. B. C. PRASAD.- Madam Chair, can I just get a clarification.

I think Members on the other side do not seem to get it.

Until the Head is put to vote, anything is debatable, anything is possible.
So, Members on this side have the right to go back seven to four to one until the Head is put to vote.

We must, Madam Chair, allow people the freedom.

It is not for the Honourable Member to decide whether it is orderly or not, Madam Chair, it is your prerogative to talk about that.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Bulitavu you have the floor.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Thank you Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad for that.
Firstly, we have the Committee of Supply and the Honourable Minister answerable to the scrutiny by the Opposition.

Although the backbenchers are here, but for the votes only - but the Ministers have to be answerable.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- What is your issue please, Honourable Member.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- The issue here, Madam Chair, when we go to Programme 8, Activity 1, SEG 5 – Printing cost - Examination Papers ($300,00) Page 145.
The exam papers were emailed to the schools and most of the schools were printing at their own cost so what is this cost for?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You want to increase or decrease?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- No, there is a cost here.

We want a clarification from the Honourable Minister because the exam papers were emailed to the schools and the schools printed the papers at their own cost.

So, what is this cost doing here?

(Inaudible Interjections) 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 637 HON.
DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, Years 12 and 13 will not be emailed, he does not understand and know that exams are over.

Your information is incorrect, number one.

Number two, Madam Chair, not all schools have internet connections therefore we print it and deliver it to them.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any more comments?

Thank you there being no other comments we will go into the motions that we have received.
We will consider the motions and the first one - Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Leader of the Opposition.

The question is that Head 21-1-1-6 be increased by $1 million in respect of National Substance Abuse Advisory Council.

I will call on the Honourable Leader of the Opposition to speak on her motion.

HON.

RO T.V.
HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Madam Chair, I have asked here for an amendment to that amount because the National Substance Abuse Advisory Council has to deal with many issues in regards to children and it is not only drugs, Madam Chair, there are a lot of social issues too that they need to deal with, and they need to have that increased because every year that amount is inadequate for the needs of the children in the schools.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to speak on that motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being no further input, we will vote on this.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Kepa.

The question is that Head 21-1-1-6 be increased by $1 million in respect of the National Substance Abuse Advisory Council.

Question on proposed amendment put Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 15 26 7 Proposed amendment is defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The next one is, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Niko Nawaikula.

The question is that Head 21-4-1-5 be increased by $500,000.

I will give the floor to the Honourable Nawaikula to speak on his motion.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, the reason and purpose for this motion is to improve our curriculum.

This year is the worst year for the Ministry of Education.

If I was the Prime Minister I would have sacked the Minister and changed him.
The reason for that is 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 638 we do not know whether we are coming or going.

The exams were set very badly, and you are not even sure whether some have passed or not and the whole reason for that is curriculum.

We need to review it.

Lucky for the Ministry, I am not moving a motion to take this out, otherwise they will be all booted out.

But I am moving this motion to improve it, because we need to review curriculum.
It is to help him and as noted, we have shifted the exams from the exam papers to the curriculum, but they need to be empowered, they need capacity and that is the whole reason for this motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone what to speak on that motion?

HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Madam Chair, in terms of what the Honourable Nawaikula had just said, some of the curriculum syllabuses that are being taught in the schools are not relevant for Year 7 and Year 8 hence the need to review the curriculum.
There should be a wide consultation amongst the stakeholders to look at the curriculum so that everyone should know what is happening in the schools instead of it just being shoved down on the schools to teach these subjects, Madam Chair.

Also on the examination, the CDU is now being tasked to do this, it is a big burden on them and it is not the function of the CDU to carry out examinations in terms of writing – it is a big task on the CDU officers.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Can I say something on this issue of curriculum reform?

I have said this before, Madam Chair, and I have supported the Honourable Minister for Education in his efforts to reform some of the aspects of the education system.

I am not going to move a separate motion, but let me just come back and support what Honourable Nawaikula had said.

I think the Ministry still has time to find money from within in its total allocation.
I would still urge the Honourable Minister to appoint an Education Commission or Committee of Experts to look at the reform, Madam Chair, that took place under Bainimarama Government and some which the current Minister is reversing and changing.

I think it will be good for all of us to have a very informed expert review at this stage as to where we are going in terms of curriculum, because curriculum, Madam Chair, is something which is very critical.
If you get it wrong at one stage, I mean the effect of that could be seen after many years.

On that note, I think the proposition that we are making from this side of the House to the Honourable Minister, and I would urge him to take it on board, and not ignore it simply because it is coming from the Opposition.

I think it would be something that would be good for everyone in this country and for education.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula you may speak in reply.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I have nothing to add.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 639 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Niko Nawaikula.

The question is, that Head 21-4- 1 be increased by $500,000 in respect of SEG 5.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 14 28 6 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The last motion, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Semesa Karavaki, and the question is that Head 21-2-1-5 Free Milk Programme – Year 1 students be left out of Head 21.

I will now give the floor to the Honourable Karavaki to speak on his motion.

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

This is just a follow up in the address that I had given in this House in reply to the Budget Address.
The availability of recent information in the research in the medical area shows, I had given the source in that speech and it is actually available to look at those medical journals.
It is revealed that dairy milk is a contributor to cancer and NCDs, and whether it causes or constitutes, it amounts to the same thing because it will eventuate in the sickness, because we are working on a programme together administered by the Ministry of Health for the wellness of citizens of this country, and this is particularly so with our children.
They are our leaders for tomorrow and we must take every caution to ensure that we do not do anything now that will cause sickness to them and become sickly citizens of tomorrow.

This is why I am moving this motion because whoever came up with this idea, had no idea at all of what he was doing.

(Laughter) Whether it was the Honourable Minister for Education or whether it was someone else, they had no idea at all.
It is just because, Madam Chair, that we had been used to this, we grew up drinking dairy milk.

This is a big revolution that is coming to guarantee or assist us, not only, should we live a longer life but a healthy life.

Madam Chair, the reason why I am moving this motion is because we want our children, especially now, it is targeting the Year 1.

Our children coming into Year 1 are given this and we have no idea about that.
I am sure that none of us when we were born, when we wanted to drink milk we turned to see a mother cow’s milk in front of us.

No, Madam Chair, it was our mother’s milk, it is a human being’s milk.

That is what we were given to drink from.

Actually 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 640 the research has discovered that, that is the best milk for us because it gives us calcium.

I understand that is the reason why dairy milk has been used because of the calcium content in it.
But that calcium content, Madam Chair, is also found in vegetables and fruits.

They have no side effects but the calcium in dairy milk has side effects.

It leads to cancer and NCDs.

Now, Madam Chair, they are coming out and saying that there is no connection with that.

Why are they saying that?

It is because money is involved and they are ones who like to drink milk.

But we care for our children.


That is why I am moving this, Madam Chair, that this must be removed unless he can come up with a better idea to replace it with fruits and vegetables.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, do we have any comments?

Anyone would like to comment on that?

No comments therefore no Right of reply.

Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name the Honourable Semesa Karavaki.

The question is that 21-2-1- 5 – Free Milk Programme – Year 1 students be left out of Head 21.
Does anyone oppose?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Yes Question on proposed amendment put Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Members.

Parliament will now vote on Head 21.

The question is that the amount of Head 21 - Ministry of Education, Heritage and Arts be approved.

There being opposition, we will put this to a vote.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 28 16 4 Head 21 agreed to.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Members, you know that we have been working late every evening.

Do you want to break now for tea?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Yes.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 641 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- How many minutes - 15?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will break for tea for 30 minutes and resume at 5.15 p.m.

Thank you very much, Honourable Members.

The Parliament adjourned at 4.46 pm.


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 642 The Parliament resumed at 5.21 p.m. MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Members.

Welcome again this time to continue with this debate, and we will go on from where we left off.

Head No.

22 – Ministry of Health and Medical Services MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Ministry of Health and Medical Services.

- Programme 1, Activity 1, they are open for debate.

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Thank you, Madam Chair, let me start on this.

I know that the Honourable Minister quite rightly earlier pointed out that, this is in respect to SEG 1.

He has already indicated that he wants to reduce the doctor patient ratio to 1:1,000 and nurse patient ratio to 1: 250.

We heard from him in his Budget response that out of the 150 doctors, they had recruited 126, they still have got 24 and there is provision for another 150 in the 2016 Budget.
My question to the Honourable Minister is, whether this allocation and plus 24 from this year, how far would that recruitment take us closer to achieving the ratio in 2017?

What is the ratio at the moment that might give us some indication and then I will be satisfied that SEG 1 in all the Activities roughly reflects the trend towards achieving that ratio.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, this is in General Administration in SEG 1, please Honourable Minister.

HON.
HON.

J. USAMATE.- I cannot tell you the ratio now but we are targeting to achieve the ratios in 2017.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, are there any other comments?

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I really do not think that is a very good answer.

I think if the Honourable Minister comes to this House and talks about ratio.

Obviously, he ought to know what the current ratio is, then you can target and move towards the ratio 1: 1,000 in 2017.
So that obviously, means that we are not there, so what we want to know is whether you have the allocation, whether it is enough for you to move from where you are now to 1: 1,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

I think he had covered this issue during the debate and he had mentioned some statistics to that effect.

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I will stop after this but let me just ask the Honourable Minister again if he says that in 2017 he wants to go to 1: 1,000 and 1: 250 then he ought to know where we are and how well do we want to move there?

I mean that is not a very good answer from the Honourable Minister for Health, honestly speaking, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 643 HON.
J. USAMATE.- I do not have the exact ratio but obviously, if we believe that we can achieve it by 2017 then we are very close.

The exact ratios I could not give that to you right now but I can easily get it though.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any more comments?

Honourable Prem Singh.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Madam Chair, Head 22-1-1-3.

Can the Honourable Minister explain what assistance will they provide to overseas visiting medical team that will cost around $500,000?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

J. USAMATE.- Assisting things like Customs clearance, transport, meals and things of that nature.

In some cases, we also help out in accommodation.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Are there any more comments?

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, a supplementary question to the previous one.

How many medical teams are likely to come to Fiji and where are they likely to visit?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which SEG are you referring to?

HON.
HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- SEG 3, supplementary to the previous question.

HON.

J. USAMATE.- We normally get teams from Friends of Fiji, the Seventh-day, Cardiac Pacific Islands Programme, Eye Teams, Chinese Teams, American Teams, Taiwanese Teams and sometimes, there are other teams that come to help.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nanovo.

HON.

RATU S.V.

NANOVO.- SEG 3, what does repatriation of $30,000 mean for the General Administration of your Ministry, Honourable Minister?

HON.
HON.

J. USAMATE.- For patients referred to overseas and die, their bodies need to be repatriated to Fiji.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any more comments and questions?

Honourable Vadei.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, Head 22-1-1-4.

I am quoting the allocation for Vehicle – Fuels and Oil at $107,000.

Can the Honourable Minister inform the House as to how many vehicles are covered under the SEG?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 644 HON.
J. USAMATE.- The figures has been determined by the staff to be adequate for the vehicles that we do have.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any more comments?

We will move on to Programme 2.

Honourable Ratu Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, Head 22-1-1-4.

I have a list of items that I am enquiring, the allocation for Vehicles, Fuel and Oil at $107,000.

Can the Honourable Minister inform the House on how many vehicles?
That question you need to tell us how many vehicles that are covered under the SEG.

Secondly, can the Honourable Minister clarify what spare parts and maintenance requirements will arise that will need $100,000 for the general running of your main administration offices?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I think you will just answer the second one because the first one had been answered.

The spare parts and maintenance.

HON.


J. USAMATE.- The spare parts and maintenance is for old vehicles that we have so that we can keep them on the roads.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, are there any other comments?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Why is the maintenance and running expense of the ministerial vehicle $6,000 not included in the overall administrative running of the office?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- Obviously, so that we can track it much closer by having a separate allocation.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

This $30,000, can the Honourable Minister clarify whether this is designated to office cleaning?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- This is for sanitary bins for all our facilities in Fiji.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Dulakiverata.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA- Madam Chair, SEG 4 – Stationery and Printing, you have it at $321,000.

Can we have more details from this, as it is a lot of money?

HON.
HON.

J. USAMATE.- Stationery, toners, printing of all the medical forms that we distribute all over Fiji.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other question?

Honourable Vadei.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 645 HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, on SEG 5, we noted that there is an increase of $2,220,000 for Charter of Aircraft.

Does that mean that there is a shortage of doctors and drugs in those various health centres, that you need evacuation by aircraft?

HON.
HON.

J. USAMATE.- Our specialists are located in the main centres, so if there are complicated cases, we need to bring the cases to them, that is why we made this fund.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, supplementary to what the Honourable Vadei had asked, why can the Ministry not buy a helicopter?

HON.
HON.

J. USAMATE.- The Ministry is in the business of curing people, so we try to focus most of our resources on that and managing that rather than managing a whole lot of assets.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Service Delivery.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

Let us go on to Programme 2, Activity 1.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, SEG 5, Head 22-1-1, can the Honourable Minister justify why Fiji is required to pay the IAEA annual membership of $40,000?
How would the Ministry’s work be improved by your $40,000 membership at IAEA?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- This is the annual membership for the whole of Government.

In terms of the Ministry, we are looking at areas like radiation therapy, so we can treat cancer patients, that is why this is important for us.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

HON.

S.D.
HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister confirm under SEG 8, the allocation for the upgrading and maintenance of hospitals and institutional quarters of $3 million, does this include the upgrade of the quarters at Extension Street?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- I do not have a list of all of the exact projects but there is a list of prioritised projects and the extent to which we are focused on this by allocating a sum of $3 million.
It is for the whole of Fiji in all of the major hospitals.

I do not have the specific list with me.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, SEG 5, 22-1-1, where is the location of the re-compression chamber because it is allocated $150,000 and how do the patients get there?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 646 HON.
J. USAMATE.- It is located at the CWM Hospital, I am sure, if necessary, they are transported by helicopter if they are from Vanua Levu and other places.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- In regards to SEG 5, there is a grant of $1 million for In-Service Training, what is the scope encompassed in this training?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- This is for the training of all the staff, it includes short programmes and in the past, it also included Post Graduate Training Programmes for those who want to be trained as specialists.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- On SEG 6, Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister explain what campaign is the Ministry of Health contributing towards that which is facilitated by the World Health Organisation which is budgeted at $48,000?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- As a member of the WHO, we have a contribution to make, this is the contribution that we make, our membership fee.

HON.
HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, what is the annual contribution of $1,520 to the World Food Programme.

HON.

J. USAMATE.- This is used for the celebration of World Food Day.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, what benefits do you get from being a member of IAEA, what benefits do we get, though we pay the fees?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- For the Ministry of Health, I have already answered.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other questions?

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I notice for kidney dialysis treatment, we only have $300,000.

I really want to know from the Honourable Minister, Madam Chair, this is a big issue.

It is a very expensive treatment and we know that there is quite a few people who need that kind of treatment.

My question to the Minister is, why only $300,000 allocation for kidney dialysis, and after that answer, Madam Chair, I want to move a motion to increase the allocation.

HON.
HON.

J. USAMATE.- Thank you, $300,000 – Dialysis is currently provided for acute cases, those that can get better.

For chronic cases, we do not fund that unless there is a likelihood of a transplant, so these funds will be adequate for the ones that we currently address.

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- In that case, Madam Chair, pursuant to Standing Order 100(2), without notice I move that Head 22 be increased by $2 million in respect of SEG 6 - Operating Grants and Transfers and this should go towards the Kidney Dialysis Treatment.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 647 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, you can fill up the form.

I give the floor to the Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Thank you, Madam Chair, still on SEG 6, is the allocation for National Blood Services - $200,000 a responsible one, given the high need of blood in our hospitals?

Is $200,000 inclusive of behavioural changes campaigns, as well as blood drives and the need for buses in the Northern Division?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- The figure that has been provided has been based on the assessment of the staff on what is needed to continue the blood drive.

HON.
HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, can we request the Honourable Minister to advise us why only $100,000 was given as grant to the St. John Association of Fiji and Project HEAVEN has got $200,000?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- Government grant to St. John’s Ambulance is $100,000 as per the discussions with them.

Project HEAVEN Trust is a new one for hearing and eye-screening.

These grants are just to help them in running their operations.

HON.
HON.

P. SINGH.- A question on SEG 6, Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister indicate whether Kidney Dialysis Treatment is available at all three major hospitals and how much would one patient be spending per week on dialysis?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- The hospitals currently provide dialysis at the three major hospitals for acute cases.

In Labasa, its dialysis treatment clinic is run by the Board of Visitors, the prices range, they are different, I do not have the exact figure.
I think they would be slightly lower than the figure for Kidney Foundation.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other questions?

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Still on SEG 6, Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister please, enlighten us on Empower Pacific which is allocated, $100,000?

HON.
HON.

J. USAMATE.- One of the areas that we need organisations like Empower Pacific is in the area of counselling on issues like suicidal cases, HIV patients where we do not have enough staff and Empower Pacific does all of this work for us.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.


BULITAVU.- I would like to move a motion, Madam Chair, in regards to SEG 6 for the National Blood Service Allocation for an increase of another $100,000 to buy a bus for blood drive in the Northern Division.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, you can fill the form.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 648 HON.

A.T. VADEI.- On SEG 7, what is the medical HR contingencies which is to the tune of $535,000?

HON.
HON.

J. USAMATE.- In the area of Health, there is always need for projects, so when you have projects you put in Project Officers to run the project and when the project finishes, you close down.

That is what this fund is for, it is funding all those little projects that need to be funded.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.-On SEG 8 in terms of the Health Centres that are allocated funding, for example, the New Naulu Health Centre.
My question to the Honourable Minister for Health is whether the quarters for the nurses would have installation of electricity or power because when we visited Bagasau Health Centre last month, some of these Health Centres are in isolated places.

So my question is, whether they would supply power also to the nurses’ quarters as they do to the Health Centres?

HON.
HON.

J. USAMATE.- As we regard our workers in the Health sector as our most important asset, and we always try to make sure that we can provide them with best facilities to the best of our ability.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

So could you check out Bagasau Health Centre?

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- On SEG 7, there is an allocation here for $2,5000,000 which is described as Outsourcing, can you elaborate on that?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.


J. USAMATE.- In Health, we try to focus on our core activities, so things like security services and clearing are being outsourced to other organisations.

So, this pays for that.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chairperson, Head 22, Programme1, Activity 1, SEG 3 – Telecommunication.
In relation to vehicles, does the Honourable Minister feel that, that amount is sufficient to cover the needs for the whole of Fiji, specifically the rural areas where Health Centres are a range?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- This funding is for Head Office, so there are other fundings for those that are in the peripheries.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you any other question?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 649 HON.
RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Yes, Madam Chairperson, Head 22, Programme 1, Activity 1- SEG 7, the Feasibility Study for Oncology Centre allocated $200,000.

Can there be an explanation on that one?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

HON.

J. USAMATE.- This is in relation to the IAEAs so we are looking at the issue of radiation therapy for those with cancer, that is of the serious study to see how that can be done.

That will be assisted by the IAEA.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, anymore comments.


HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chairperson, on SEG 7, there is an allocation given to Fiji College of Nursing $140,000 – can the Honourable Minister just clarify what is this payment for?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

J. USAMATE.- This is something they are required to do under the Nursing Decree, it is in relation to professional development and setting up of registration examination papers for Nurse graduates.
When they come, they need to go through an assessment process before they can be set loose in the Health sector.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments?

Can we move on to Programme 2, Activity 1, do you have any comments?

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- As already highlighted in my maiden speech and also in my presentation this week regarding the Nasi ni Koro whether their emoluments or allowances are catered for in this Activity?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.


J. USAMATE.- Public Health - Nasi ni Koro is not in SEG 1 here, but there will be an allocation for Community Health Workers (CHW) somewhere else in this Budget.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- SEG 4, can the honourable Minister inform this House how much exactly will be dispensed both to quarantine, burial and cremation which is actually pegged at $30,000?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 650 HON.

J. USAMATE.- This fund is to destroy the things that are brought off planes or ships to make sure that communicable disease do not spread out into the country, so that money is used for cremating or burying those things, so it should be adequate.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments?

If not, we will move on to Programme 2, Activity 2.

HON.J.
HON.J.

DULAKIVERATA:- Madam Chairperson, as Minister responsible, how is your Ministry looking at implementing funds for the Suicide Prevention Programme which is $43,000.

HON.

J. USAMATE.- Which fund is that?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 1, Programme 2 – Suicide Prevention $43,000; Honourable Minister.

HON.

J. USAMATE.- That is basically money for advocacy training conducted by other organisations like Youth Champs for Mental Health Training and also by our staff in the Divisions.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any more comments to be made: Activity 2, Activity 3; Honourable Vadei.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- On SEG 7, there is Community Health Workers, will the Nasi ni Koro be paid from that allocation?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- SEG 7, Community Health Workers - $210,000?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes/ HON.

J. USAMATE.- That is the fund for them.

If there will be any payments for them, it will be a one-off payment.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments?

Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.


A.M. RADRODRO.- This allocation for Rural Local Authorities of $200,000, can the Honourable Minister advise us as to how many Rural Local Authorities will be covered in this payment?

HON.

J. USAMATE.- I cannot tell you the number of Rural Local Authorities, I do not have their exact number but they cover all areas outside the town and city boundaries.
They are considered under the Public Health Act, and these funds make sure that they have some funds to be able to carry out their activities.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA:- Madam Chairperson, regarding my previous question, I would like to move a motion under Standing Order 100(2), Head 22, SEG 5 allocation to the 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 651 Suicide Prevention Programme be increased to $1million to match the local need to suicide awareness and mental health appreciation.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, you may fill the form.

We will move on to Programme 2, Activity 2.

Activity 3?

Activity 4?

Activity 5?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- SEG 6.

Can we go back to Programme 2, Activity 1, SEG 6 – Rural Local Authority is funded at $200,000.

What is the fund for and how do you propose… MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Already answered.

Any more comments on Activities 2, 3, 4, 5?

No comments?

Activity 6.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- SEG 7, Programme 2, Activity 1.


What specific activities are covered under the Family Health Projects and proposed coverage of $50,000?

I have a motion for that after the question is answered.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

J. USAMATE.- Family Health covers the area from reproduction to adolescence including Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STD) expanded programme of immunisation and all advocacy training related to that.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

HON.


RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, pursuant to Standing Order 100 (2), I move without notice that Head 22, SEG 7, allocation for Family Health Projects be increased to $100,000 as proposed intervention would be preventative in nature which should be supported.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments from Programme 2, Activities 4, 5, and 6?

HON.
HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, a motion on Head 22-2-1-6, pursuant to Standing Order 100(2), I move without notice that Head 22 SEG 6 allocation for Local Rural Authorities be increased to $300,000 as they have an important public health prevention role.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 652 HON.

S.D.
S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Madam Chair, as we are still on Head 22-2-1-6, may I move a motion under Standing Order 100(2) to increase the allocation in grant to the National Food and Nutrition Committee from $230,000 to $500,000?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments on any other Activity?

Programme 3, Activity 1?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 3, Activity 2?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Eastern Division, Western Division – Activity 3?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Northern Division – Activity 4?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Drugs and Medical Equipment; Programme 4, Activity 1.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- The motion to establish training and that would come under 1 the sum of… MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which Programme please?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Programme 4, SEG 2.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please fill in the form.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- A sum of $.... MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, on Programme 2, Activity 6, can the Honourable Minister inform us whether the allocation for motor vehicles, oil, spare parts and maintenance is enough for the Saint Giles Hospital allocation for 2016?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 653 HON.

J. USAMATE.- Yes.
J. USAMATE.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

So Programme 4, Activity 1 - Drugs and Medical Equipment?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

We will now move to the motions.

Firstly, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

The question is that Head 22 be increased by $1, 700,000 in respect to Head 22-1-1-6.

Honourable Dr. Prasad would you like to speak on that motion?

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, this is a very compassionate and need-based amendment at the quest to increase the allocation.

I do not have much to say but I can tell you my own personal experience where I was involved in helping someone to collect funds to have kidney dialysis.

Increasingly, it is not just for older people, we find children, those in the middle age and especially those in the lower income and the middle income group.
The cost of kidney dialysis is very expensive and even with that allocation of $300,000, it is not free and many families face a situation where they have this great dilemma whether to use their savings, use their income and many of them cannot afford to pay for that.

I heard the Honourable Minister saying that those with chronic conditions really do not get the support.

He is right.

I think we need to address this, Madam Chair.


This has been a long standing issue for many families who have people with kidney problems.

It is a very simple straightforward compassionate request and I hope that the Government side will support the increase in allocation or at least give us an assurance, if they do not want to vote for it, that there will be more than $300,000 available for kidney dialysis.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Do you have anyone to comment on that?

HON.

V.R.


GAVOKA.- I would like to support the motion, Madam Chair.

Our finding is that there are about 700 kidney patients in Fiji, who have to pay about $250 per treatment.

If they have it three times a week, 700 of them, that is about $27 million a year.

Madam Chair, I just wonder how many of our people have just given up.

You know three times a week - $250, how many of those have given up and you know what happens.
Madam Chair, it is very important that we consider this.

I do not know whether we know but just today, the Rugby World is mourning the passing of Jonah Lomu, aged 40 - kidney problem.

So that should bring to us the enormity of this need.

I just go back to that, how many of our people have just given up.

You know what it is like when we come back to the village, come back home, “what did the doctor say?” The reply being, “cannot do anything.” How many of us see that every day.
Therefore, I would ask every one of us to support this motion, increase it to $2 million.

As I have said, this is not the way to go, but let us do this for those who really need and who really cannot afford the treatment that we provide today.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 654 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you for those comments.

Any other comments to be made on that?

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Madam Chair, I would like to also support this motion.
I believe that the situation will get worse where we will need more and more money each year.

I am sure if we were to really ask the Honourable Minister for Health what was the needed here he would agree that more money is needed.

This is one of the NCD related issues and we know that 83 per cent of our people are affected by NCDs and it will get worse and I support this motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


I fully support the motion because one of my neighbours is also a kidney patient undergoing dialysis treatment.

What I overheard from his dad was that it is better to die because he cannot afford the cost.

So I plead with the Government, please be realistic with what we require for the services to be rendered to our people in Fiji, if this is the People’s Budget.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I will now give the floor to the Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad for his Right of reply.

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I think Honourable Leader of the Opposition, Honourable Gavoka and Honourable Vadei added quite eloquently to the request and as I have said, it would be a very companionate move by the Government to increase the allocation for kidney dialysis because it may not cover the full cost, but the increase will cushion or at least help those in the lower income to get some treatment for a while.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

The question is that Head 22 be increased by $1,700,000 in respect of Head 22-1-1-6.

Does anyone oppose the motion?

Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 655 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Next one, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Dulakiverata.

The question is that Head 22 be increased by $1 million in respect of SEG 5.

I invite Honourable Dulakiverata to have the floor.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, as all of us know this is a very serious problem in our country - suicide.

Our children or the young generation are vulnerable to suicide.
Fiji is a country with one of the highest number of suicide cases and we need to educate the public, we need to educate everyone on the prevention of suicide.

It is only proper that we increase this budget by $1 million, in respect of SEG 5, that is on suicide.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Semesa Karavaki.

The question is that Head 22 be increased by $270,000 in respect to Head 22-2-1-6 and that is on the National Food and Nutrition Committee.

will give the floor to the Honourable Karavaki to speak on his motion.

I HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Madam Chair, this is the heart and soul of the Ministry of Health.
It is not being recognised now because if we give the right amount to the National Food and Nutrition Committee, it can carry out the appropriate research and be able to come out with what is the right kind of nutrition that we should absorb into our bodies.

This will tell us the right kind of food that we should eat.

We are talking about kidney dialysis, we talking about suicide, these all comes because we are eating the wrong kind of food.
This is why I am moving this motion that at least $270,000 be added to this amount to make it $500,000.

This should be able to cure a lot of problems in the area of health.

It has a wide range effect even to the Prison and Police Services.

We will find our hospitals empty because people do not really need to go to the hospital as food is the medicine.
You eat the right food, you do not get sick, this is really why I am moving this motion and I am urging the Government to take very serious considerations about this and see the importance of having the right notice and the right advise given to the Ministry of Health and that should turn into national policies for the wellbeing of the nation.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

I invite any other Honourable Member to speak on the motion.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 656 HON.
N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, I wish to support the motion.

One of the themes of this year’s budget is to deliver better health services.

I do not think that it is reflected fairly in the budget and we are paying lip service to it.

Now unless we put money into this, in the way that we live, it all has to do with NCDs, with the way that we live and the food that we eat.

Nutrition is important and necessary.

Prevention is better than cure.

So I support the motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Any other input?

Because we heard an input, I will ask the Honourable Karavaki to speak in reply, if he needs to.

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Semesa Karavaki and the question is that Head 22 be increased by $270,000 in respect to the Head 22-2-1- 6 – National Food and Nutrition Committee.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, we will put it to the vote.
Parliament will vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will move onto the next motion.

Parliament will vote on the amendment.

HON.

A.A MAHARAJ.- Just a clarification on the voting, there are six Honourable Members not present in Parliament, but we are only getting four people who have not voted.

If there are six people not in the Parliament, why do we keep having four people not voting?
Four from our side and two from this side.

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBER.- What is your problem?

HON.

A.A. MAHARAJ.- It is either the system is playing up or people are voting on other’s behalf.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

I think the two will not make a difference to the vote.

Some people may not want to vote at all.

Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.
The question is that Head 22 be increased by $100,000 in respect of SEG 7 – Family Health Projects.

Does anyone oppose?

I will invite Honourable Tikoca to speak on the motion.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 657 HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, the Family Health Projects speaks of more logistic reference of travel to the various locations also, and the cost of travelling is quite expensive these days to cover as much area as possible.
We are proposing for an additional $50,000, to move it up to $100,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to speak on the motion?

There being none, we will now vote on the motion.

Parliament will vote on the amendment on the name of Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

The question is that Head 22 be increased to $100,000 in respect of SEG 7 on Family Health Projects.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The next one is that Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Mosese Bulitavu and the question is that Head 22-1-1- 6 be increased by $100,000 in respect of National Blood Service.

I will ask the Honourable Bulitavu to speak on his motion.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think this is specifically for the Northern Division.

The request is for the bus for blood drive.


The request comes with reasons that the blood donors in Labasa Hospital include secondary school students.

The RFMF as well is one of the biggest donors in the Northern Division, sometimes they are in camp or out on peacekeeping duties.

There is also the lack of donors at our hospital in Labasa and at blood centres in the villages.

The awareness programmes is very slow.


When the blood bank staff come around, mostly the turaga ni koro, and those tasked for those roles are not available.

That is why the Labasa Hospital needs a permanent or mobile blood van to move around Vanua Levu to collect blood with the idea that blood is very important to the hospital for surgeries and other things to help the hospital in Labasa.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Will the $100,000 be sufficient to buy a bus?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- A small mobile bus.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone want to speak on the motion?

There being none, we will go straight into the vote.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 658 Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Mosese Bulitavu and the question is that Head 22-1-1-6 be increased by $100,000 in respect of National Blood Service.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.


Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Kiliraki.

The question is that Head 22 be increased by $100,000 in respect of Head 22-2-1-6, Rural Health Authority.

I will ask the Honourable Kiliraki to speak on his motion.

HON.
HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair, this motion is for an increase of $100,000 to the allocation of $200,000, totalling $300,000 to the Local Rural Authorities .

As previously alluded to by the Honourable Minister, that he could not give us the number of how many Local Rural Authorities that challenges the relativity of $200,000.

This allocation covers the areas that are not covered by the municipal authorities.
People who dwell in these areas are mostly those in the lower income bracket of our society and face the unavailability of clean water and other amenities that could bring sicknesses that are contagious and could spread very quickly.

This motion, Madam Chair, is just to help the Local Rural Authorities to be pro-active in education awareness and to be able to make a lot of visitations.

I would go along with what my colleague, Honourable Nawaikula said that prevention is better than cure.
That is the essence of this motion, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone else would like to speak on this motion?

HON.

P. SINGH.- Madam Chair, I would just like to contribute to this motion and I think it is a very good one because Local Rural Authorities all over Fiji now have increased responsibilities, particularly in Nadi.
Nadi Rural Local Authority looks after areas which include parts of Mamanuca, from Momi up to Barara which encompasses the whole of Votualevu, Mulomulo and big areas.

They look after resorts like Denarau Island, Naisoso Island and Sonaisali Island.

I was a member of that board so I know about the mere allocation of around $8,000 to $10,000 per year to look after the administration work.
Up until I was there, there was no vehicle assigned to the Authority and they used to share with the Sub- Divisional Medical Officer, which was not available on time.

Then the process of building 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 659 plans, licence fees, creation of rest rooms and lots of other activities, and I think the allocation Local Rural Authorities must increase.

Therefore I support the motion, Madam.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Is there anyone else who would like to speak?

HON.
HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, in my response to the Honourable Minister of Finance Address, I did mention that we are in consultation with the Ministry of Health in getting Rural Authorities under Town and Country Planning.

So, why the big fuss about it?

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBER.- So support the motion.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Why support?

That will come under the Ministry for Local Government.

So, why is there a fuss about it?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other input?

HON.


A.T. VADEI.- Yes, Madam Chair, in relation to business approval in our country, we are rated the least.

That is why we need to empower these Local Rural Authorities in business processing and applications for our people.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Point of clarification we are not rated the least.

It can be improved, but not rated the least.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?
Any other comments?

There being none I will ask the Honourable Kiliraki to speak in reply.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Yes, Madam Chair, I just want to reiterate that there is a need for an increase.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Kiliraki.

The question is that Head 22 be increased by $100,000 in respect of SEG 6 – Local Rural Authorities.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.
Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 660 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Next, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Nawaikula and the question is that Head 22-4-1 be increased by $50,000 in respect of SEG 2.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- The sum that I am asking in this motion is only $50,000 and I ask the other side to support me.

This is to be allocated to training.


You need three or four trainings of these sort and you will save millions.

The basis of this motion is the findings of the 2014 Auditor-General’s Report on Health.

On Health the pages are quite thick, very badly managed, very bad leadership but that is not a reflection on the current Minister it is the Minister before.

For the current Minister, we will know that next year.

But the findings in relation to Capital Projects was very badly managed.
Simple things like, contracts not signed, the clerk of works not attending or working with the contractors and in relation to the supply of drugs - $11.9 million of goods supplied without any contracts.

In some cases, contracts were signed after the delivery date, so we need training on due process.

We need training on understanding on the simplicity of a contract, on the need to sign and make the parties obligated to each other before you even deliver and that is the whole reason here.
If we do that, it is a prevention and that is what we need.

In relation to those, some of those the recommendations of the OAG Report is very, very bad.

Some of these are bordering on corruption, so we need to stop that and we will do that by training.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone else want to speak on the motion?

There being none, then we will put this to the vote.

Parliament will vote on the amendments in the name of the Honourable Nawaikula.
The question is, that Head 22, Programme 4, Activity 1 be increased by $50,000 in respect of SEG 2 - Training.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion?

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 15 28 5 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Members, we will now vote on the Head 22 - Ministry of Health and Medical Services be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?


There being opposition, Parliament will now vote on the motion.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 661 Question put.

Votes Cast Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 28 15 5 Head 22 agreed to.

Head No.

23 – Department of Housing MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head 23 is now open for debate.

We look at Programme 1 - Housing Activity 1 - General Administration.

Do you have any comments?

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- In relation to SEGs 6, 8 and 10, all these have been under Requisition recurringly.

Can the Honourable Minister at least give us an indication of whether this will go ahead, because otherwise we might just move a motion to take them out?

They rubbish the page, ‘R’ this year, ‘R’ next year.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, there will be no change, we will operate in this way.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?


Honourable Dr Biman Prasad.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- SEG 8, Madam Chair, I see we have Squatter Upgrade and Resettlement that is $4 million and then you have City Wide Squatter Upgrade of $400,000.
Can the Honourable Minister explain what are the components of this squatter upgrade and what are the plans for next year to do this, because I am just wondering what is the difference between Squatter Upgrade and Resettlement and City Wide Squatter Upgrade Project and what are the components?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, Squatter Upgrade and Resettlement is a project that we carry out on State land.
City Wide is a project that we carry out in consultation with the municipalities, where ever there is an improper settlement, so we provide them with basic facilities such as roads, water and electricity.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Dr Biman Prasad.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 662 HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Just a quick follow up, Madam Chair, perhaps the Honourable Minister can clarify this.
I know in Ba when the Government issued the leases, one of the tenants who got the lease went to the bank, I understand it was an approval notice only, I just need some clarification from the Minister whether that is what is being given or how soon the proper lease would be given?

What are the requirements that the tenants have?

HON.

P. KUMAR.- Yes, you are right.

We have issued them approval notices and once the subdivision is fully completed then they will get the 99-year lease.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- On SEG 7, there is an amount of $174,000 for 2016 which also appeared last year, it is for National Housing and Policy Implementation Plan.

Can you brief us on the progress of this work?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, this National Housing Policy is to provide a clear direction; to shift away from this piece-meal to be inclusive.
Last year, it was budgeted for 2015 to formulate the Housing Policy Act.

This is for a two-year programme, it was used this year and will also roll over to next year.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Prem Singh.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Just following on from the question of the Honourable NFP Leader, who will carry out these subdivisions, say for instance in Clopcott, Ba and at whose expense; is it the lessee or the Government will assist?
The next one is the squatter upgrade, for instance, squatters in Nadi like Navakai, et cetera, you have partnered with PCN.

What is the extent of their involvement?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- The first one, that subdivision will be carried out by the Ba Town Council and the Ministry will assist the Council in carrying out that development.

In terms of our association with the PCN, PCN has partnered with the Ministry to carry out housing projects such as Lagilagi.
So, we have done this project in municipalities in association with PCN and Asian Coalition from Indonesia.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

I give the floor to the Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- SEG 10, Madam Chair.

Housing Assistance to Fire Victims - $1 million.

Can the Honourable Minister elaborate or inform us, how much will be allocated per fire victim or household victim and whether this is in anticipation of the amount of fire that will happen next year, 2016.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 663 HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, it was budgeted this year and also for next year, we have been allocated the same amount.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Dulakiverata.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

SEG 8 on Squatter Upgrade and Resettlement.

The Government is going about giving approval notices, as already being mentioned.
The squatters call it the “debt capital”, they do not pay anything - city rates and rent because they are squatters.

Now, you issue them with approval notices which the bank does not accept as security for loan or anything.

Now, you will charge them rent for places that have not being upgraded, they do not have the necessary facilities or services and they will be subjected to pay town rates or city rates too if they are in the municipal council.

So, how are you going to fix this issue?


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister?

Honourable Dulakiverata, it is apparent that your question is not clear, please repeat the question.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, by giving them just an approval notice without actually developing the land and issuing them with a proper title, does not really solve the problem.

You are burdening them with taxes.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, I think he is talking about informal settlements.
He can be rest assured, we do not charge anything, city council they cannot just go and charge unless and until it is fully subdivided.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Matanitobua.

HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chair, SEG 10.

First Home Buyers, it is $10 million.

How many people are you targeting to cater, Honourable Minister, from this $10 million?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, $10 million for First Home Buyers, this appeared previously in 2014 and 2015.
Could the Honourable Minister inform us how much of this money was used in 2014 and 2015?

I will move a motion after you give an answer.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, I do not have any issue in responding to that but the Honourable Member is asking for a breakdown which I can definitely give to this House, but I can say that around 450 Fijians have benefited out of this project.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Prem Singh.


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 664 HON.

P. SINGH.- Madam Chair, I thank the Honourable Minister for that answer because it leads me to another one.

For First Home Buyers, it specifically says “first home buyers”.

What are the monitoring mechanisms in place that are not used on investment property buyers, how do you monitor this?

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Just a declaration.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Just a declaration?

HON.


A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- (Inaudible interjection) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Question answered.

Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, SEG 10 – Sustainable Income Generating Project - $300,000.

Can the Honourable Minister explain this project?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, this is the product of National Housing Policy.
When we receive applications from villagers, we provide them with funding but the whole idea is for them to generate revenue and at the end of the day, have a home.

That is the whole idea and that is how this project is operated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Leawere.

HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Madam Chair, SEG 6.

Can the Honourable Minister explain in details about the subsidies in terms of Public Rental Board and those that have benefited from it?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, I really do not have the total breakdown but what I can say is that, we have retained this allocation for next year for the reason being, there is no increase in the tenant but we will ask Ministry of Finance for 2017 after the completion of Savusavu Project.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


Can the Honourable Minister advise us on these two policies - SEG 7 - National Housing Policy Implementation Plan and SEG 10 - Social Housing Policy of $500,000?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The difference between SEG 7 $174,000 and Social Housing Policy $500,000 in SEG 10.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 665 HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

This policy is to assist the Housing Authority customers who have paid more than one and half times.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any more comments?

Honourable Prem Singh.

HON.

P. SINGH.- When the Honourable Minister says they have paid one and half time, does he mean one and half times the principal or one and half times principal plus interest?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- The principal, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments?

We will now vote on the Head.

Parliament will now vote on Head 23.


The question is that, the amount for Head 23 - Department of Housing be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 27 14 7 Head 23 agreed to.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will now move on to the next Head.

Head No.

24 – Ministry of Women, Children and Poverty Alleviation MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head 24 is up for debate.
We will now look at Programme 1 – Policy and Administration, do we have any comments?

Honourable Salote Radrodro.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

SEG 1 – Personal Emoluments there is a reduction of $208,900.

Can the Honourable Minister explain why the reduction and what impact would this reduction have on service delivery?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

HON.

R.S AKBAR.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


The decrease is due to the transfer of salary of the Permanent Secretary to the Public Service Commission.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments on Activity 1?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 666 HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

Activity 1, SEG 10 - Fire Victims Relief of $150,000.

As you remember, Madam Chair, I also raised that in Head 23 regarding the fire victims of $1 million, is there any duplication?
We need a clarification, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Clarification, Honourable Minister.

HON.

R.S AKBAR.- Madam Chair, of course there is no duplication.

These fire victims assistance is the immediate assistance that we give to the families and we tried to do this within the first seven days so that they can use the assistance of $1,000 for the immediate needs of the family.
We have seen an increase of $50,000 because in last year’s Budget we had $100,000, and altogether we have assisted 127 households for which we had to vire funds from within.

So the increase will basically assist us to cater for the numbers next year.

It does not mean that we want more fires but the thing is, when these fires are there, these families need our assistance and we are there to provide immediate relief to them.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Salote Radrodro.

HON.


S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

Can the Honourable Minister explain SEG 7 – Executive Support Unit Projects, what are these projects for?

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Madam Chair, this is a new addition, the Executive Support Unit Grant of $100,000.

This is basically to be used for those families who need our assistance where all the other ministries’ assistance fail.
For example, we have families who are pushed out of their homes and they become homeless overnight, so that is our assistance to them.

This also assists us in our Operation Loloma where we are targeting to provide for homes, food and rations to those street dwellers, especially our Beggars Task Force.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, just a supplementary question to my previous question.

Can the Honourable Minister indicate how many fire victims who are recipients of that allocation?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I think that question has been answered.

HON.

MEMBER.- Not yet.

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- I would like to answer that.

Like I said, we have so far assisted 127 this year and we had to vire $27,000 from our programmes to assist 27 more because we were only given $100,000 for 100 families.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair, I move a motion on SEG 10 that Capital Grants to Voluntary Organisations be increased by $700,000.
Before I move a motion on that, can the Honourable Minister explain how many have graduated from this programme from 2014 and this year?

Thank you, Madam Chair.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 667 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister, you may respond, if you like only to the Welfare Graduation Programme, can you fill the form for your first request.

HON.

R.S.
HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Madam Chair, in regards to our Capital Grants to Voluntary Organisations, these are the grants that we give out to those NGOs and civil societies that complement the work of the Ministry, especially in terms of child welfare and looking after the elderly in the Senior Citizens’ Home.
So far, we have assisted close to 19 NGOs this year with a grant that was given to us, and of course, next year again we intend to assist these 19 NGOs with the grants and any other request that comes in, especially to look after these issues as the Ministry does not have the capacity to address every issue that comes in regards to children and the elderly in the society.
In terms of the Welfare Graduation Programme, from 2014 till now, we have managed to graduate 249 recipients of the Poverty Benefit Scheme into that, and in this regard, the training for the recipients that are identified from the Poverty Benefit Scheme is done by NCSMED.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, I would like to move a motion on SEG 10, Welfare Graduation Programme, an increase of $500,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, you can fill the form.

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, can I ask my Honourable colleague to explain SEG 6 - Fiji National Council of Disabled Persons (FNCDP) - $390,000.

How do people qualify for that and what is the basis?

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Madam Chair, we see an increase in the grant to FNCDP.
This is an operational grant that is given to the FNCDP to expand the support of NGOs for persons living with disabilities under FNCDP and they basically include the Fiji Association for the Deaf, the Psychiatric Survivors Association, Spinal Injury Association, the Pacific Disability Foundation, the Divisional NGOs, Special Schools for Disabled Children and they come under the umbrella of FNCDP, so we provide an operational grant to FNCDP and that is distributed to those organisations that fall under that Council.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

Activity 2 – Poverty Monitoring Unit?

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, on Activity 2 – SEG 7 - Integrated National Poverty Eradication Programme.

I move a motion to increase that SEG by $1 million.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You can fill in the form.

Programme 2, Activity 1 - any comments?

Programme 2, Activity 2 – Field Services?

Programme 2 Activity 3 – Senior Citizens’ Homes?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 668 HON.

RATU I.D.
RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Madam Chair, SEG 6, Head 24, Activity 2 - Poverty Benefit Scheme has been allocated $22 million in 2015 and 2016 under requisition.

Can the Honourable Minister indicate how much has been utilised to date and how many would benefit in 2016?

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Madam Chair, the Poverty Benefit Scheme is one of the major Social Protection Schemes of the Social Welfare Services and this year we were given an allocation of $22 million.
Currently, we have 22,362 recipients and we are looking at a full utilisation of the budget come the end of this year.

However, a point to be noted, we have not asked for an increase next year because our aim is to ensure that we have more recipients under the Welfare Graduation Programme, what the other side says “dinau”, we are not going to promote that.

We want people to be more self-reliant and independent and that is the core focus of that.

HON.

S.V.
HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- My apologies, Madam Chair, can we just go back to 24-2- 1 on Institutional Homes in terms of juvenile centres, that is SEG 4, and juvenile expenses in SEG 5.

Before I move a motion on those two items, can the Honourable Minister identify how many children are under the Juvenile Centre?

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Madam Chair, we have a capacity to have 20 boys, especially for the Boys Centre.
Of course, we have another Girls arm - Pearly Gates Girls Home, but for these Boys Centre, I am sorry, I will not be able to tell you how many but we have a capacity of 20 boys who are referred to by the Courts and they stay under the care of the Director of Social Welfare.

That budget is adequate for their upkeep.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Head 24, Programme 2, Activity 2, SEG 6 in regards to Food Voucher Programme.
In 2015, the allocation for Food Voucher was $1 million under requisition and there is a 50 per cent reduction to $500,000 in 2016, still under requisition.

Can the Honourable Minister indicate the rationale for the reduction?

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- My apologies, Madam Chair, which SEG are you referring to?

MADAM CHAIR.- Page 173, at the bottom, Programme 2, Activity 2, SEG 6 on Food Voucher Programme.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- On the Food Voucher Programme, why it has decreased?

HON.

R.S.
HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Madam Chair, this Food Voucher Programme is the expanded food voucher programme for the rural pregnant women.

Yes, it has increased because ….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- It has decreased by 50 per cent.

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Honourable Member, can I please have a minute?

Can I also ask that you repeat your question once again?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 669 HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


In 2015, the allocation for Food Voucher was about $1 million under Requisition, and there is a 50 per cent reduction to $500,000 in 2015, still under Requisition.

Can the Honourable Minister indicate the rationale for the reduction?

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

This programme is basically on the applications that are received from rural pregnant women.
Based on the application that we received last year and this year, we saw it fit to have a decrease because we were not able to utilise the money that was given to us.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Salote Radrodro HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you Madam Chairperson.

I would like to move a motion on Activity 2 SEG 7 – Child Protection Programme to increase by $500,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

You may fill the form.

HON.


A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, could the Honourable Minister elaborate on Head 24-2-2-5 - Commission Charges?

There is an increase from $480,000 to $800,000 in 2016.

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Madam Chairperson, this Commission Charges are for our Social Welfare Recipients when the services are provided by the banks and postal agencies where they go and encash their money.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

HON.

S.V.


RADRODRO.- Madam Chairperson, I also like to move that all those items under ‘R’ if they could be released just like other normal budgets.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

We will move onto the next Programme 2, Activity 3 - Senior Citizens Homes.

Do you have any comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 3, Activity 1 – General Administration for Women and Gender?

HON.

S.V.
HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- On the Women’s Plan of Action, if that allocation could be increased by $1 million.

It is under SEG 6 and also the NGO grants, if that could be increased to $350,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

We will now begin to address the amendments.

Honourable Matanitobua you want to say something?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 670 HON.
RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chairperson, just a clarification from the Honourable Minister on Head 24-1-1-7 - Domestic Violence Helpline.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

R.S.


AKBAR.- Thank you Madam Chairperson, this Domestic Violence Helpline is a similar initiative like the National Child Helpline where we will be working with the major Telecom service providers to ensure that we create a platform whereby victims of domestic violence have a platform to report to cases, and then from there referrals would be done to relevant agencies.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

We will now go into the amendments.


Parliament will vote on an amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that Head 24-1-2 be increased by $1 million in respect of SEG 7 – Integrated National Eradication Programme.

Does anyone oppose?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Yes MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Sorry, before we will put it to the vote, we will ask the Honourable Radrodro to speak on the motion.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you Madam Chair.


Considering that poverty is a big issue in our country and the agency that has been given the responsibility to monitor poverty across the country is under this Ministry, but there are Poverty Alleviation Programmes in all other ministries across the service.
So they would need to have adequate resources to be able to constructively or accurately be able to provide some kind of database in terms of the effectiveness of the Poverty Alleviation Programmes across other ministries.

So, they need to beef up that agency and this agency has been shifted from ministry to ministry over the years but it is a very important agency in terms of monitoring the effectiveness of the Poverty Alleviation Programmes in the other ministries as well.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone else wants to speak on the motion?

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chairperson, I support the motion partly because as we have said during the Budget debate, now that the Government has imposed a 9 per cent VAT on basic food items, the most vulnerable and the poor in the society need to be helped and that is the principle.

If you are taxing the poor then you got to make sure that you have other programmes.
We already have a reduction in the Food Voucher Programme from $1 million to $0.5 million and so it makes sense.

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- It is a different programme.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 671 HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- It is, but it still goes towards poverty alleviation.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please continue.

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Pregnant mothers.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Rural pregnant women.

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Mostly from the poor background, [INTERJECTIONS] but the principle point, Madam Chair, is this, if you are putting extra burden on the poor, then this would be one way of cushioning that burden.

I think the motion has a lot of merit, a small increase is going to help quite a few people so I support that motion as a matter of principle; re-allocation of funds as a result of the taxation policy.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone else wants to speak on the motion.

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I wish to support the motion simply Madam Chairperson, because this affects 30 per cent of the population in Fiji who are classified as living below the poverty line and earning less than $1.25 a day.

So, it is vital and important that a coordinated effort be given to address the issue.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any others would like to contribute?

There being none, we will ask the Honourable Radrodro to speak in reply if she wishes before we put it to the vote.
Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro.

The question is that Head 24-1-2 be increased by $1 million in respect of SEG 7 – Integrated National Eradication Programme.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, we will put this to the vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 27 5 Proposed amendment defeated.
Parliament will vote on an amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that Head 24 be increased by $700,000 in respect of Head 24-1-1-10 and that 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 672 is Capital Grants to Voluntary Organisations.

I will invite the Honourable Salote Radrodro to speak on her motion.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you Madam Chairperson.


We must remember that voluntary organisations are actually the critical partners of the Ministry in terms of its Social Protection Programmes.

They do a lot of work.


Civil Societies and NGO’s are undertaking the work that the Ministry is being mandated to look after and they would need a little bit more of budgetary allocation to help them do their work, and because they are also the organisations that are actually are in touch with the grassroots communities.

Thus, along that line, that is why I am recommending that their budgetary allocation be increased accordingly.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Does anyone else want to speak on the motion?

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that Head 25 be increased by $700,000 in respect Head 24-1-1-10 - Capital Grants to Voluntary Organisations.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this amendment.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that Head 24 be increased by $500,000 in respect of Head 24-1-1-10 on Welfare Graduation Programme.

I will invite Honourable Salote Radrodro to speak on the motion.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


This is actually a very important programme under the Ministry because it is trying to move away from handouts mentality, so this welfare programme, I believe, is actually what they term the “work fare” so to assist social welfare recipients to be able to establish some kind of economic empowerment programme - small business to be able to support themselves and move away from receiving social benefits such as Social Welfare.
I believe it is something that the Ministry should be assisted with, so that we actually do something about the disadvantaged communities but they are able-bodied, they are physically well and good.

This allocation is to assist them set up economic empowerment programmes to be able to sustain themselves rather than depending on social welfare handouts.

Thank you.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 673 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.
I invite any other Honourable Member that would like to speak on the motion.

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament is therefore ready to vote on this amendment.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that Head 24 be increased by $500,000 in respect of Head 24-1-1-10 - Welfare Graduation.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.


Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will move on to the next motion.

The Parliament will vote on an amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that Head 24-1-1 be increased by $500,000 in respect of Welfare Graduation Programme and that is under SEG 10.

I invite the Honourable Salote Radrodro to speak on her motion.

HON.

S.V.
HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, I believe that the explanation goes along as I had mention with this activity as well.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone else want to speak on this motion?

There being none.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro.

The question is that Head 24-1-1 be increased by $500,000 perspective Welfare Graduation Programmes SEG 10.

Does anyone oppose the motion.

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 17 27 4 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 674 Proposed amendment defeated.

HON.

A.A. MAHARAJ.- Madam Chair, I wish to put it on record, by mistake I pressed “Ayes” instead of “Noes”.

(Acclamation) (Chorus of Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- That is a result of having a very youthful finger that presses so quickly.
It will not make a difference to the results.

(Laughter) We will move onto the next one.

Parliament will vote for an amendment in the name of the Honourable Salote Radrodro.

The question is that Head 24-2-2 be increased by $500,000 in respect of SEG 7 - Child Protection Programme.

I ask the Honourable Radrodro to speak on her motion.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am sure we all agree about our children as we see the level of abuse on our children is just increasing.
Child abuse is very high in Fiji and I am looking across the room and trusting the ladies and gentlemen on the other side that we look at this very critically.

Now, there have been very severe cases of child abuse in Fiji, whether it is rape, whether in school or whether it by just some parent -all kinds of abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse and verbal abuse.

You look at the amount of money that has been allocated towards our children to safeguard their interests.
This is the time that we could do something very positive about it to help the Ministry.

Yes, you have Police Force and you have other agencies but this is the Ministry and you will remember last year I had question why the name was changed?

Madam Chair, now it reads Ministry of Women, Children.

And “Children” has been specifically stated in the new title of the Ministry from last year and this year.
I believe why children has been there in the title of the Ministry is because of the focus that the Ministry wants to portrait and that focus must also be corresponding with the amount of budgetary allocation that the Ministry of Finance or the Honourable Minister of Finance allocates for the protection and the well-being of our children.

Along those lines, Madam Chair, I urge all of us here that we look at this allocation critically and vote for it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Does anyone want to speak on this motion?

There being none, we are ready to vote.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Salote Radrodro.

The question is that Head 24-2-2 be increased by $500,000 in respect of SEGS 7 – Child Protection Programme.

Does anyone oppose the motion?

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Can I say something before we go along?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 675 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Akbar.

HON.

R.S.
HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

We already have a Child Protection Allowance that has been given a budget of $3.2 million.

Now that $3.2 million is to assist those children who are living with single parents and need assistance.

That is the allowance that is given to the children.

The Child Protection Programme that is for $500,000 is for us to organise awareness campaigns.

That is not the money that is paid to children.


We have two budgets, one is for awareness and one is to assist children who live in homes where they need our assistance.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Will that information change your mind Honourable Salote Radrodro about the amendment?

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- No, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Just a point which the Honourable Radrodro actually acknowledges herself.
This is the first time in Fiji’s history that you actually have a ministry responsible for children also.

This is the first time any government has done it.

Therefore, Madam Chair, Honourable Radrodro has got a very short sighted view of managing money.

She thinks that importance is only given with the high amount of money you give, that is how important it becomes.

But at the end of the day, the reality is, it has been given $500,000, we need to be able to spend that.
Obviously we need to spend it in a very judicious and transparent manner and targeted.

You do not just simply give an amount of money and say, “Look we are supporting, protecting our children”, but we do not know how it is going to be spent.

So this is the first step that is being taken and obviously with the Honourable Minister and her team, they will look at how better and what other ways that will develop those partnerships.
The first time it is being done, the Child Helpline, Domestic Violence Helpline which also includes children is all being put in place.

So we need to progressively work towards this and this is a very healthy amount of money that has been given.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Would you like to speak in reply Honourable Radrodro.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, I thank the Honourable Minister responsible for her response and I also thank the Honourable Minister of Finance.
But my point is, advocacy takes a long time and as mentioned by the Honourable Minister, it is a kind of work that we need to step-up and I am only asking for $500,000, it is not much.

[INTERJECTIONS] You look at the amount that has been given to roads, [INTERJECTIONS] you can check for yourself but this is for our children, the future of our country and we have to protect them.
There is no point coming into this House and asking for a Minute of Silence because there was this bad case of rape somewhere in Nadera or Nakasi, somewhere, this is the time where we can do some constructive work about it.

Vote for this $500,000, I am sure it will help the Ministry in their advocacy work.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 676 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro.
The question is that Head 24-2-2 be increased by $500,000 in respect of SEG 7 – Child Protection Programme.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will move onto the next one.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro.
The question is that Head 24 be increased by $350,000 in respect of 24-3-1, NGO Grants on SEG 6.

I will give the floor to the Honourable Salote Radrodro to speak on her motion.

HON.
HON.

S.V.RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, this grant is specifically targeting the women NGO groups and these are the organisations like FWCC and other organisations that assist the Ministry in terms of advocating issues on women, particularly elimination of violence against women which the Ministry cannot handle alone and these are the organisations that are actually on the ground.
Whether it will be faith- based or just another women group, these are all the various different types of groups which the Ministry tries and assist to work with them to be able to address issues like elimination of violence against women and children, economic empowerment of women, increasing the number of women in leadership so that in the next municipal council elections, we can see some women there.
These are the organisations that work with the Ministry in terms of promoting the empowerment of women in the various aspects that women are in.

So, along those lines, Madam Chair, I recommend and plead to the other side that we assist these organisations that do a lot of work for our women and a lot of them like I said, it is voluntary work.
So, this is just something they volunteer their time and this is just a token amount from the Ministry to be able to assist them to do some programmes with the women that they look after.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I invite anyone else to speak on the motion.

HON.

R.S.

AKBAR.- Madam Chair, please allow me to make a small contribution to that effect.

The NGO grants, yes, it is given to NGOs who work with the Ministry in all aspects of our work.
We do not provide a grant to the Fiji Women’s Crisis Centre, actually they are an equal partner with us in our programmes and awareness and they have their external funding and of course, like I said, we do not fund them.
For the information of the House, we have recently launched the Fiji Women’s Fund with DFAT to an amount of $1.5 million per year 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 677 whereby we are still in the process of working with DFAT for concept and design of this fund, the first for Fiji.

This is where the women’s NGOs will be benefitting because these NGOs work at the grassroots level of their community and of course that $1.5 million per year is definitely going to boost their work.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone else want to contribute to the motion?

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Madam Chair, I support this motion.

I think it is a very good one in terms of these NGOs and the work that they do.

As the Honourable Minister has alluded to, they work with the grassroots right across the country, the faith-based, a lot of voluntary work and a lot of very useful work that the Ministry cannot do and they supplement the work of the Ministry very well.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula.


HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, if you go to just about all the villages in Fiji, you will see that there is a lot of demand, there is a lot of money coming in from overseas to assist women, but the problem that you have is that they are not formulated properly.

You need this funding to allow them to formulate themselves as NGOs because these donors need transparency and accountability.
You can only achieve that by forming this in accordance with a proper association or with proper NGO so that they account back whatever money is given to them.

So I support the motion so that money can be applied to all the villages and the rural areas to formulate the NGOs for women.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I invite the Honourable Radrodro, if you want to speak in reply.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- No, thank you.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro.

The question is that Head 24 be increased by $350,000 in respect of 24-3-1, NGO Grants.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 27 5 Proposed amendment defeated.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 678 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Last motion, the Parliament will vote on an amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that Head 24 be increased by $1 million in respect of 24-3-1, and that is the Women’s Plan of Action – SEG 6.

I now invite the Honourable Radrodro to speak on her motion.

HON.

S.V.
HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, I am looking at this, it says, “the future, a strong Fiji, a fair Fiji, a healthy Fiji.” If we are really serious about a strong Fiji then we must make sure that there is a lot of women in this House and in this Women’s Plan of Action there are five thematic areas and one of them is Women in Leadership.
May I echo again that slogan I bring back with me from Timor-Leste (East Timor), right across the street it says, “Strong women, and strong nation.” So, if we are really serious about nation building in this country, then it is just another million.
You know, for the five thematic areas under Women’s Plan of Action, we only have $1 million, so another million to be able to help this five thematic areas, whether it is formal sector and employment, equal participation in decision-making, elimination of violence against women and children, access to basic services and women and the law.

If you are agreeing to that $1 million, they are only going to get about $500,000 or $600,000 each – it is not much.

But it means a lot of development.


If you are really concerned about the empowerment and development of our women, then vote the $1 million for this Women’s Plan of Action.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to contribute to this motion?

There being none then there will be no Right of reply.

We will go straight into the vote.


Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Salote Radrodro and the question is that Head 24 be increased by $1 million in respect of Head 24-3-1, and that is for the Women’s Plan of Action.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 27 5 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Members, that brings to the end the debate on this Ministry.

I now put the question that the amount on Head No.

24 - Ministry of Women, Children and Poverty Alleviation be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Yes.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 679 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted ` : : : 28 16 4 Head 24 agreed to.
We will now move on to the next Head.

Head No.

25- Ministry of Youth and Sports MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head No.

25 is open for debate and we are looking at Programme 1 – Youth, Activity 1– General Administration.

Does anyone have any input to Activity 1?

HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chairperson, Head 25, Programme 1, Activity 1 on SEG 1 – can the Minister explain the staffing of the Ministry, including the staffing scale as per SEG 1 - Personal Emoluments $729,447?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. L B.TUITUBOU.- Thank you, Madam Chairperson, thank you Honourable Member, this is the same as the Ministry of Women.

We have relocated the pay for the Permanent Secretary, that is why the reduction for the change in SEG 1 and also that we were able to get four more posts for our accounts.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments for Activity 1, Activity 2 on Programme 1?

Honourable Matanitobua.

HON.


RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chairperson, Activity 1, SEG 1, can the Honourable Minister reveal how much of the $729,447 for Personal Emoluments will be considered salary for teachers at the National Youth Band and the various training centres or any other emoluments of certain number of persons in Suva?

(Inaudible Interjections) HON.

LT. COL. L.B.. TUITUBOU.- This is established staff of the Ministry, the headquarter staff.
We may see in the other activities where you can see the band for the Youth Centre in Valelevu, the National Youth Band.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 680 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you any other comment on Activity 1, Activity 2 – Youth Development and Training, Activity 3 – Research Policy Information and Planning, Activity 1 on Programme 2 – General Administration on sports.

I give the floor to the Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chairperson, on SEG 4, can the Minister explain the spare parts and maintenance they are referring to at $8,000?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Are we still on Activity 1?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Page 179, Activity 25-1-1, SEG 4.

HON.

LT.COL.

L.B.

TUITUBOU.- For vehicle fuel oil and spare parts for the vehicles that we have and is it the right one?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you any other comments, Honourable Kiliraki?

HON.
HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Yes, on SEG 4 also, Madam Chair, Incidentals allotted $6,000, can we have some clarification on that?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Yes, this is incidentals for the building that we are occupying.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Ratu Nanovo.

HON.

RATU S. NANOVO.- Still on SEG 4, Part 2, can the Minister explain how much property does the Ministry own; where are the Ministry’s offices located?
State if there is a tenancy contract and justify why it is necessary to maintain buildings at $3,900.

We also noted there is another $50,000 grant for refurbishment and a collection of upgrading grants for training centres?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

We are still on?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- SEG 4 Maintenance of building and equipment $3,900 please explain?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Activity 1.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, Programme 1, Activity 1,SEG 4.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.
HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- The maintenance of building and equipment this is where our headquarters is.

We have a youth centre at Activity 2, Programme 1.

This is still at the administration where our headquarters are.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 681 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you and the refurbishment of offices $50,000 - SEG 5.

HON.

LT. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- SEG 5 - that is for refurbishment but the one that we are renting is for office equipment and improvement for our staff.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M. D. BULITAVU.- SEG 10, Madam Chair.

The Honourable Minister said, given that the Ministry of Youth is renting in some of the properties, they are tenants and he had said $50,000 for refurbishments but the landlords they normally do those kind of things, such as fittings and all those wear and tear.

I do not really get why is it that much when most of the work will be done on where the tenants are renting are done by the landlords.

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Unfortunately, Honourable Bulitavu many of the buildings that we occupy that we are renting, those lease agreements were signed, some of them 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago and you should see the quality of those lease agreements.

We are paying where we should not be paying.

Even for example, Suvavou House if you see the quality of the House, the refurbishment that is done internally, it is at the cost of the government.
That is the lease agreement and unfortunately, that is the situation that most of the government buildings that we occupy, we are in that situation.

Some buildings that we do own but of course, unfortunately some of these buildings also in terms of OHS compliance, in terms of providing a conducive environment for the civil servants to work in, we have to provide these refurbishments and the upgrade.

So, you are right that generally, we should not have lease agreements that are signed for 20 years.
Normally, lease agreements are three to five years, your rental reviews and then you have many of the amenities that are actually paid for by the landlord.

So, in this particular case, the Honourable Ministers situation, some of the offices they occupy need to be upgraded.

Some of the offices are quite pathetic actually and you would agree.

We need to upgrade this building that is why the money is being given.
Generally, what we have found that the Ministry of Youth for a long time, was kind of neglected.

We need to have those offices to be a lot more conducive.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- I am just concerned about the allocation, that is pretty too much in that regard.

I understand that letting agreement and it is too old and for me in Labasa, I used to run a building too, where the Ministry of Youth is accommodated with the other Ministries and they do share costing.
Most of the time they disagree on power points and all the layout in the office.

The lift system, the air condition and all that but to my knowledge, that is just too much in that regard.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you for your comment and I invite the Honourable Nawaikula to have the floor.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 682 HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, there is a very important item in my view, in relation to the volunteer expense.
I believe, the volunteer scheme is very important, it allows us to use qualified people who cannot find work and there is a need to expand on this.

But if the Honourable Minister can explain, how many people are benefiting from this, what is the basis of us acquiring that because there is only $14,000, so on the basis of that, I might move a motion to increase.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.


TUITUBOU.- For the volunteer expenses, that is what we have been receiving for the payment of the people who are registered under the National Employment Centre and from the past years and until now, we are still content with that amount.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Does he feel that, that is enough?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, I think he has answered that question.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- No.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- He said that they are content with the allocation made.

I will now give the floor to the Honourable Vadei.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

On SEG 5 in relation to the National Youth Band.

The $350,000 that has being allocated, can the Minister brief us, who are the beneficiaries of all these; the teachers, the volunteers or whatever?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.
HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Yes, every year we recruit about 35 youths who are interested in music and this covers the equipment and all the allowances and the electricity and how this centre is run for the National Youth Band.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, Youth Entrepreneur Award $30,000.

Now, compared to the volunteer scheme, this is a lot.

Could the Honourable Minister explain, what is this about?

Is it ongoing?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.


TUITUBOU.- The volunteer scheme that I think the Member of Parliament was meaning that allowance is back with the Ministry of Labour which is used to be with the Ministry of Youth & Sports.

But this is to cater for those NEC volunteers that are covered and also overseas volunteers that come to the Ministry.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 683 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Prem Singh.

HON.
HON.

P. SINGH.- Madam Chair, I just like to highlight to the Minister, why is not there a specific allocation for National Youth Council?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- That is something new, it is not included in this.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- The National Youth Council is being allocated for the past four years and it has been funded by UNDP through the Ministry of Youth & Sports.

But this year is their last year, UNDP has stopped funding, that is why we are not highlighting it on our SEGS.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

P. SINGH.- The National Youth Council still operates without UNDP funding?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Yes, they will still operate because they are non- government.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments?

There being no other comments, there are no proposals for amendment.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Youth Training Centre, Valelevu $140,000.

What centre is this?

What kind of training is conducted here?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.


HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Those are capital grants, that we upgrade the Youth Training Centre around Fiji, we had five.

For Valelevu Youth Training Centre, we are upgrading the existing school that we are using now - $140,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments?

Programme 1, Activity 2.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- That is on SEG 5, Programme 1, Activity 1.

On the allocation of staff training and materials $60,000.
Can the Minister inform the House, if volunteers are included in this training?

What staff are they hoping to upskill or train?

What precisely will this $60,000 be used for?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- This is for training that is requested by youth clubs and we have some resource personnel that we hire to do mobile training according to the request that comes from the youth clubs.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 684 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments?

Let us move on to Activity 2, Youth Development and Training.

Any comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Programme 1, Activity 3 - Research Policy and Information.

Programme 2, Activity 1 - Sports and General Administration.

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Programme 2, Activity 1, Madam Chair.


I see that there is an allocation for hosting international tournaments $1.3 million, also overseas sporting tours $5.4 million.

I am just seeking clarification from the Honourable Minister, we have three of our teams for sevens tournament and soccer participating in the Rio Olympics.

Do we have a specific allocation for them or is it part of that overseas sporting tours?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.
HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Yes, we have a specific allocation for that.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Apart from the allocation?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Yes.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- And what is that under?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- That $5.4 million, Madam Chair, includes the Olympic support for our national team that are participating on that.
The hosting of the international tournament as highlighted in the Budget Address, we have a Oceania Swimming Tournament and also Oceania Weight Lifting, that is part of it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments?

There being no other comments, there are no proposal for amendment.

Honourable Matanitobua.

HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chair, on Head 25, Programme 1, Activity 2, on SEG 3.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Page 179, is it?

HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Yes, Madam.


Can the Minister inform the House on what is the cost of travel $19,000 which is stated here, will be used for?

This segment says there is an allocation for fuel in Head 25, Program 1, Activity 2, SEG 4 of $10,000.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Can you repeat the question, please.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 685 HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Programme 1, Activity 2, SEGS 3 and 4.
There is an allocation of $19,000 in SEG 3 and there is another allocation of $10,000 in SEG 4, there is two.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Those are for development training.

We have staff that goes around which is their entitlement to Travel and Allowances.

For SEG 4, the maintenance of SEG 5.

These are for the vehicles that are used in conducting visits and training for youth clubs.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments?

Honourable Ratu Nanovo.

HON.

RATU S.V.


NANOVO.- Madam Chair, still on SEG 4, can the Honourable Minister describe the difference between Minor Works - $50,000 ,which is separate from Spare Parts and Maintenance - $11,400 and Maintenance of Equipment and Building - $2,000.

What are the differences between these three?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Spare Parts for Established staff while visiting youth clubs and Minor Works is for the existing building.
That has been explained before.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Matanitobua.

HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chair, SEG 5.

Why does the Honourable Minister need a Youth Advisory Expense of $20,000?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

$20,000.

HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Head 25-1-2-5, $20,000.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- We have a training centre in Nasau that looks after agriculture schools and carpentry and joinery.

$20,000 is for the Youth Training Advisory.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Still on SEG 5.

Can the Honourable Minister confirm if Training Expense of $19,200 is for consultant and facilitators or is it for venue hire?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- That is for rations for youth training in Nasau.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

Programme 1, Activity 3 – Research Policy Information and Planning.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Activity 2 on Head 25, Page 179.


What is the role of the Youth Voluntary Organisation Training Programme and where will it be based?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 686 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- That is for youth coordinators and youth workers that are selected by the province, once they submit their monthly reports then we pay them from that allowance.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Are there any further comment?

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Young People’s Sexual and Reproductive Health and Sexuality Education Programme, can you please explain how do you conduct this in the Ministry of Youth, without doctors and nurses?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- It comes under that name but the training is particularly for females and it is a multi-skilled training such as hairdressing, sewing and cooking, am I on the right SEG?

HON.

N.NAWAIKULA.- No, you are on the wrong one.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Is it SEG 7?

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- Yes, SEG 7.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Young People’s Sexual Reproductive Health, this is the UNFPA project.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- That is the UNFPA funded programme to assist youth in the sexual reproduction health.

(Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- SEG 10 – International Youth Exchange Programme - $100,000.
Can the Honourable Minister explain the programme itself and the outcome of the exchange programme?

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Yes, international youth get meet and exchange views and beliefs and come out with their new imitation.

They travel overseas for the Exchange Programme.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comment?

Honourable Vadei.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- In the same SEG, regarding the exchange programme.

What are the durations of those exchange programmes?
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 687 HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- There is no particular duration but it depends on the programmes that are offered from overseas.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

Honourable Ratu Matanitobua.

HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chair, still on SEG 7.

Can the Honourable Minister inform the House, how is the Volunteer Training different from the Youth Capacity Building and Training Programme of $1 million.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Yes, for Youth Capacity Building., we have an increase of $1 million because as we went around and sit down with youth groups, we receive complaints from Faith Base Youth Clubs and other multi-ethnic youth in the peri-urban, urban, in the interior and outer islands, so we intend to get more youth administrator and youth workers to assist in this regard.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Vadei.

HON.


A.T. VADEI.- A lot of training have been conducted by the Ministry but I never saw any graduation.

(Laughter) Trainings are all on the SEGs and Activities and a lot of Activities are on the training but no graduation.

HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Thank you, Honourable Member.

In my Budget speech, I gave an example of what we have achieved in Yavitu, Kadavu.

So, the Honourable Member should hear that.


We trained those that are dropped out of school and we give them another chance.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Why I am asking this question because they need to further those training and be graduated in the University, so that they can be an asset to the province and also in our rural communities but giving trainings that will be used to the bench also for their collateral in gaining the loans.
That is why I am saying all the training, training, training and no graduation.

(Laughter) HON.

LT. COL. L.B.

TUITUBOU.- Yes, graduation is part of training and we have one of our trainees now in Alafua Campus in Samoa who was trained in the Youth Centre and now he is in Samoa under the TELS Programme.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 688 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

There being no other comments and proposals for any amendment, we will now vote on the Head.

HON.
HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chair, on Head 25, Programme 1, Activity 3, - how many researchers will share from the $123,893 in this budget: (a) What areas of research will be covered in 2016; (b) Are the researchers also youth trainers?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Are you referring to SEG 1 - Personal Emoluments?

Do you want an increase, decrease, because if you are seeking information, we can have information later on in a different programme?

HON.
HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- We need a clarification, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Clarification on?

HON.

RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Clarification on the amount, how much will go towards the researchers?

HON.

LT. COL. L. TUITUBOU.- These are established staff.

One part of the Ministry is the Research Policy, Information and Planning so those personal emoluments will go towards those staff.

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- On 25-1-3 - Research, Policy and Information – SEG 5 (Research Enhancement - $46,400), could you just explain that, what is it?

HON.

LT. COL. L. TUITUBOU.- Madam Chair, the allocation is for Research and Survey for existing and new programmes, also on Training Funds for Policy and Research officers.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being no other comments, we will now vote on the Head.

There have been no proposals for amendment.

The Parliament will now vote on Head No.

25.


The question is that the amount for Head 25 – Ministry of Youth and Sports be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this Head.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 28 17 3 Motion agreed to.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 689 MADAM CHAIRPESON.- Honourable Members, do you want a break for tea before we continue?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Yes.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- How much time do you want?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Half an hour.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We are up to Head No.

26, we still have to get through to Head No.

37, which means we resume at 8.30 p.m.

The refreshments is being served in the same venue.

Thank you very much, Honourable Members.


The Parliament adjourned at 7.54 p.m. 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 690 The Parliament resumed at 8.35 p.m. MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Members, we have a quorum so we will continue from where we left off.

Head No.

26 – Higher Education Institutions MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 1, Activity 1 is on the floor for debate.

Do we have any Honourable Member that wants to speak on this?

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, Higher Education Institutions are very important.

Given that we would be sending more students to tertiary institutions, I want to ask the Honourable Minister for Education to clarify, I know in the narrative, it says that there was a new funding model approved by Cabinet.
You may want to briefly highlight what those are because I can see some re-allocation in terms of the grant especially for the University of the South Pacific where it was lower than what it was last year.

It could be because of the new funding model and an increase for the Fiji National University.

The second question I want to ask the Honourable Minister is to tell us whether all those grants are purely operational grants.
I know that capital grants is separate or whether some of those grants in some of the institutions also help in terms of scholarship, et cetera.

The third question I want to ask is, this tertiary hospital in Lautoka, a requisition, a similar amount was there in the 2015 Budget.

I want to know what has happened there.

It is no point Government putting out estimates, we supported that allocation last year and we said that it was a very good initiative.

We want to know what has happened there.


Is there any movement or is it just an announcement and nothing happened so far in 2015?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, I thank the Honourable Member for asking that question.

The Honourable Member noted the Operating Grant for USP which shows a reduction to $30.2 million.

Madam Chair, USP’s grant formula has changed this year.

What the University had asked from the Government was a base grant so this is a base grant of $30.2 million.
The Student Grant, they will bill it to Toppers and TELS, so it could either be $6 million, $7 million, $10 million, that is how they wanted it.

They will now market their programmes.

They might be better off than the previous formula that they were using before where they got about $36 million last year.

Madam Chair, FNU’s grant has remained the same, so that is on the grant allocation.

There is one more dimension to this.

There is a slight change this year.


Firstly, VAT has now gone down to 9 per cent so you will see that they will be paying a lesser amount of VAT.

Secondly, for the wages and salaries component of this Grant, Madam Chair, they will not be paying any VAT, so they will only pay VAT for the non-wages and salaries component of this.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 691 The other question that the Honourable Member asked was whether this grant will be utilised for scholarships or capital improvements.

No, this is operating grant, this is for operating the university.
How it is monitored is through the Higher Education Commission where they have got components of that operating grant, for example, there is a certain amount that will go to Research and Development, et cetera, and the universities are required to adhere to that guideline.

The last question that the Honourable Member asked was about the FNU’s Tertiary Hospital Grant that was given this year and the provision for next year.
Madam Chair, you will note that this year the Honourable Minister of Finance had announced certain incentives to attract credible and reputable hospital providers and this was a stumbling block last year.
Now, immediately after the announcement, this morning I had a breakfast meeting with a major provider out of India and there is a possibility of that particular provider hooking up with probably FNU or another private provider here, and operate or have a consortium and provide this particular service that we have to provide, Madam Chairperson.
That is the explanation on that, it is not easy with respect to expertise as well as capital outlet for constructing and operating successfully a tertiary hospital of the kind that we would want to, it is a very expensive business and that is why, we were not able to attract but now with the incentive, we now have very strong interest.

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, just a very quick clarification, the Honourable Minister was saying that for the University of the South Pacific, the additional grant would be in the form of those students who got Toppers Scholarship, they got to USP then they got billed, the Government gets billed and then they pay them.

I think he also mentioned TELS.

TELS levy is a loan.

Students take loan from the government and go to the university.
So, it is really not a grant from the Government to the university, it is a loan to the student, so the only component where they would be able to bill the Government would be those students who Government’s selects in the Toppers and sends them to USP or FNU or other institutions.

So, effectively what you were saying is they have asked for a reduction?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, why are we contributing towards the development of a university.
It is for the universities to take our children and educate them.

That is what this $30 million is for.

So we are saying, “We are giving you this base grant, now take the students from our country and educate them.” Therefore all the students that will go on study at USP, they will bill it to the TSLB Board and TSLB Board will write a cheque to USP; that will be our student component and this is the base grant.

HON.

M.R.
HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Honourable Chairperson, with respect to SEG 10, I note that there is a $5 million in terms of the work to be carried out for 2016, can we have an explanation on that?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chairperson, the initial plan was a $14 million campus in the Northern Division.

We re-looked at the plan, the FNU Council and they finally came 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 692 down to a $20 million campus in Labasa - Nayaca Campus.
Thanks to the Ministry of Lands that we got the land.

Madam Chairperson, that $20 million is spread out over a two-year period; 2016 and 2017.

So they submitted for a $10 million capital grant.

Madam Chair, we said to FNU that for this year we had we had allocated money for them to fix the place, it is flooding area.

They had spent substantial amounts of money to elevate the place so that, there is no flooding risk; they have done that.
Not to the full property, but they have done partially so that they could start the construction work.

So, what we were saying that here is $5million, now go and show visible output and we will look at the remaining.

So there will be phases – the first phase of the construction, basic infrastructure, we are providing $5 million, Madam Chairperson and for 2017 we will take over again of the next phase.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification in relation to SEG 6 – the allocation of $2.3 million to Fiji National University.
Before I proceed, I would like to thank the individuals who have sacrificed their own money to establish this very important university privately, which is now matching the University of the South Pacific in Law and Medicine, and here I see the allocation is only $2.3 million by comparison to and I cannot say the same for FNU.

I lectured in FNU for one week before they kicked me out, [LAUGHTER] and it leaves a lot to be desired.
You know I feel sorry for the Law School there, given that they have sacrificed privately their own money and they have brought up the quality of education in Law and Medicine to this level.

Why only $2 million?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chair, I am totally taken aback by Honourable Member’s comparison of University of Fiji with Fiji National University.

[LAUGHTER] Fiji National University has about 16,000 full time students in FTU.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Quality?

HON.


DR. M. REDDY.- I am talking about 16,000 full time equivalent students, University of Fiji has about 1,100 full time equivalent students.

Fiji National University is the largest university in the entire pacific region, larger than USP in terms of student numbers.

(Chorus of Interjections) HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Quality?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Wait, listen!

They ask questions, but they cannot digest answers.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 693 How does he know about quality, I would want to talk to him about that?

Madam Chairperson, the largest university in the entire pacific region in terms of student numbers, staff numbers, number of programmes and in terms of range of programmes.

We cannot compare five fully fledged Colleges – Medicine, Engineering, Agriculture, Business and Humanities.

So, you are talking about 16,000 students and comparing it with 1,200 students.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Leawere HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Madam Chairperson, going back to that formula that was introduced.

There were some institutions that were affected except for Fulton College and maybe Sangam Institute as well.

I would just like to know how the formula is determined?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chairperson, there is a funding formula developed by Higher Education Commission which we have used as a guide.
Interestingly, the funding formula came up with a similar kind of allocation for these three institutions - University of Fiji, USP and FNU but we had used it as a guide, so it is not too far off.

The others, what we have done is, we have incremental budgeting, unfortunately, as the Honourable Member would not understand about the budgeting methodology.

We have used that to allocate for the other institutions.

Vinaka.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- May I contribute?


I want to support the views of increasing the allocations for University of Fiji.

It is a private institution with that initiative, is pumping out the needs of graduates’ demand in this country and more efficient.

If you look at the programmes that you have delivered, it is only $2 million and you investing on human resources here, and you expressing $5 million for capital grants as you are building the university in Labasa.
But every new year there are a lot of graduates coming in from the University of Fiji.

My motion is that pursuant to Standing Order 100 (2), I move without notice that University of Fiji’s allocation be increased to $5 million.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Madam Chairperson, everyone wants increased allocation, there is a formula set that we use as a guide.
I just want to let the Honourable Member know that private universities’ capital infrastructure should not be funded by government because it is a private university.

When the university winds down or the business winds down, who owns the capital?

Not the government.

So the Government should not contribute to capital construction of private institutions and private universities.

There are other institutions here, they can all come and say, “We want more money because we are a private institution”.
There are programmes that are offered by the University of Fiji which is duplicating our national university.

They are investing on capital infrastructure to develop our national university as well as the regional university.

We cannot get all private institutions to come and again duplicate the infrastructure and provide the same kinds of programme.

Thank you.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 694 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

You may fill the form.

Any more comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Members there is only one amendment submitted to us.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

The question is that Head 26 be increased by $5 million in respect of Head 26-1-1-6.

I will invite the Honourable Ratu Tikoca to speak on his motion if he has some additions to what he had already said.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you.


I just want to place credence to this institution in this House and to support education at its best for us in the Western Division.

Rightfully we should actually come out of the usual $2 million that has been allocated to this university for the past 7 years, at least next year, if it can be given $5 million.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone else want to speak on the motion?

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, I support the motion for the reason that I have stated.

I think, you do not look at the numbers and time, you must look at quality output of what you have you have will have there and that is the basis.

The Honourable Minister was saying that they cannot fund the capital project, why not?

It has been done and it has been done before.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- Done where?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Everywhere.

You look at it on the basis of its public use.


The other point is that, $1 million is allocated for the building of the tertiary hospital in the West when FNU concentrates its sitting area in Suva.

Why not allocate that to University of Fiji when they have their medical school there?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Madam Chair, I support that motion for two reasons.

Do not look at the numbers.

The numbers may be 1,200 but they offer a very expensive programme which is medicine.
I believe the first batch of doctors are about to graduate.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Already.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Whereas FNU is also subsidised by business people – the 1 per cent levy goes to FNU through TPAF.

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- (Inaudible Interjection) 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 695 HON.

P. SINGH.- Well you tell us what is correct because 1 per cent levy that the business community pays ….

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- (Inaudible Interjection) HON.

P. SINGH.- But these are the facts.


HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- No there are not.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Where does the 1 per cent levy go to?

HON.

DR. M. REDDY.- (Inaudible Interjection) HON.

P. SINGH.- I support that motion, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

There being two inputs.

Honourable Ratu Isoa would you like to speak in reply?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- No, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.
The question is that Head 26 is increased by $5 million in respect of Head 26-1-1-6.

Does anyone oppose?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Open the vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Parliament will now vote on Head No.

26.

The question is that the amount of Head No.

26 - Higher Education Institutions be approved.

Does any member oppose the motion?


There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Open the vote.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 28 16 4 Head 26 agreed to.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 696 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Members, we will move onto the next Head.

Head No.

30 – Ministry of Agriculture MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The Head 30 is now open f or debate.

HON.
HON.

A.M RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, Head 30-1-1-4, there is an amount allocated for Pre-Fabricated Buildings of $250,000.

Can the Honourable Minister please elaborate on this allocation?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

You would note that it is not only in the Ministry for Agriculture, there are buildings for all ministries that are built by the Public Works Department.
Those are Government Quarters and Office facilities but other ministries, there is a lot in the Ministry for Agriculture and of course in rural development as well, ministries build their own office blocks and of course accommodations, which is not according to the normal designs by Public Works Department and these are the buildings that come under this category.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.
HON.

A .M RADRODRO.- Thank you Madam Chair, on 30-1-1-6, I note there is an increase in the allocation given for SEG 6.

Can the Honourable Minister assure this House that the allocation for Agriculture Marketing Authority is enough for them to carry out their activities that they have been enacted to do.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I am sure the Honourable Minister will note your comment.

Any further comments?

Any other comments on Activity 2?

Activity 3?

HON.
Activity 3?

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, on Activity 1, there is a further allocation to Agriculture Marketing Authority as Capital Grant - SEG 10 of $5,600,000.

Can the Honourable Minister elaborate on what is this Agriculture Marketing Capital Grant?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you Madam Chair.

On the two allocations, the allocation that you find on SEG 6 is the operating component and the capital component is on SEG 10.
Basically, Madam Chair, that is for the purchasing of goods from the rural areas and not only that, there is a significant need because of HACCP and Codex because AMA is involved in exports as well.

We need to meet their standards and the current facility needs to be upgraded to the necessary standard and that is where the significant allocation are under Capital Grants.

But most of these fundings will be utilised for the purchasing of goods from our rural farmers and fishermen.

Thank you.
Thank you.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 697 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, I wish to put a notice of my intention to move a motion in relation to Programme 1, Activity 1, SEG 6, that is, to increase that allocation to $1 million in relation to Tutu Training Centre.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

You may fill the form.

Meanwhile, any other comments on Ministry of Agriculture - Activity 2?

HON.
HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, Head 30-1-1-10, on Capital Grant of $5,600,000.

The question is whether this Programme is inclusive of ginger and dalo export in consideration of shifting of focus in Taveuni to Naitasiri, Tailevu, Rewa and Namosi.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you Madam Chair, dalo yes, not only does the Agricultural Marketing Authority export dalo but it is part of the function of AMA to purchase from farmers and sell to the other exporters, just to recover their administrative costs.

Secondly, on ginger, Madam Chair, of course AMA is not involved in the ginger right now.

The markets are claiming in Navua and there is a new outlet in Deuba, but on ginger or with AMA, the first sample was just sent last week to the States.
That is fresh ginger and hopefully if the States accept the quality of ginger that we have, then that will be another market segment for the AMA in as far as ginger is concerned.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any further comment?

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- SEG 8, Madam Chair, could the Honourable Minister responsible explain the stock of work involved in the Fiji Agriculture Partnership Project that has been allocated $2 million in the 2016 Budget?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you.

Madam Chair, international funding for agriculture development.

If you turn to page 342 of the Budget Estimates as well, you will find that there is a loan under the loans.

That is Fiji’s contribution to the programme with the rest of the loan details.

We will concentrate on high value vegetables in Nadarivatu.
We will start off from Nadarivatu and it will cover the bordering provinces, the upper Ra, upper Naitasiri, upper Navosa and the highlands of Ba.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- SEG 6, Programme 1, Activity 1, this is in regards to grants to Tutu Rural Training Centre and Navuso Agriculture Training School of $515,270.

Can the Honourable Minister explain to us the provision of these grants and for the purpose and for the outcomes, if there is any?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 698 HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Ministry needs to outsource, particularly on training and these two institutes are doing a good job for the Ministry in training particularly future farmers, replacement farmers, and if I may clarify on the allocations given.
For Tutu Rural Training Centre, it has been increased from $500,000 to the current allocation of $614,000, according to the request by Father Michael McVerry.

So I do not see any other reason why it needs to be improved.

Of course for Navuso as well Madam Chair, it has been increased from $300,000 to the current level of $500,000.
It is sufficient for both programmes and we monitor it very closely, and hopefully these young farmers will not join the formal sector of employment but they will go back and do farming so that they can contribute more positively to the agricultural sector.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any further comment, Honourable Vadei.

HON.


A.T.VADEI.- Madam Chair, on that Tutu and Navuso, does that allocation also have incentives to attract the young farmers to go back to the village, rather than joining the sector in the urban centres?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Yes, Madam Chair.

Let me explain very quickly for the benefit of Honourable Members and I hope that they can advocate this programme.
One of the big incentives under this programme, these youths graduate after four years, they have their bank accounts with them and part of the selection criteria as well, before you are accepted by these institutes, you must already have a farm.

So, they go and assess your farm and then they come and train you.

During every break from the centres when you go on school breaks, you go and continue and they give you a programme and they come and monitor it as well.
For year three students in Navuso, some of them have already got $10,000 in their accounts.

For those in Tutu, it is even more because they do both, yaqona and dalo whereas in Navuso it is mainly dalo and they are looking at other crops as well.

So, the incentive is there, when they graduate, they come back with capital in their bank accounts but they also have their own plantations which is worth even more then what is in the account.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.

HON.
HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Yes, Madam Chair, just a supplementary to the questions been raised about Tutu Rural Training Centres and Navuso Agricultural Training School.

When the students graduate, or even as the qualification for them to qualify for the school they must have a farm and you know Madam Chair, for this programme for farming, you need leases.

The land being communally owned, so when you graduate, the students cannot automatically go in and farm because it is a communal land.
They need a lease, so whether this provision of leasing is in the programme?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 699 HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, if I may clarify, lease is only required for commercial agriculture students under the programme run by Fiji National University (FNU).

These are youths from their respective communities and they do not require lease.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, a quick question in relation to what the Honourable Minister just said.

I know the FNU programme, can the Honourable Minister tell us how many students had access to that funding to start commercial agriculture so far because I do not see any allocation in any of the Activities.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, unfortunately I do not have the figures because I only look after them when they graduate.

I do the follow up, that is part of the package.

HON.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- There is no allocation anywhere?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- I am not given the allocation, the allocation is with FNU.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- So, what you are saying, Honourable Minister, Madam Chair, through you is that the $70,000 that they are supposed to get as loan after they graduate is administered by FNU?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, that component is with the bank, Fiji Development Bank (FDB).

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Matanitobua.

HON.


RATU S. MATANITOBUA.- Madam Chair, I want to ask the Minister on the aid in kind from New Zealand Aid.

Can you elaborate?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, the aid in kind by New Zealand is assisting the Ministry of Agriculture in livestock, particularly on dairy and this programme started even before Elections last year.
I think next week when we are free from Parliament they will hand over three tractors that will be given to the dairy farmers for their personal development, this is part of the package.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- From SEG 10, Madam Chair, I just want to ask the Minister whether the allocation of $1 million for Rural and Outer Island Agriculture Development Programme is sufficient enough?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 700 HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, it is sufficient because there are other Programmes available to those in the rural outer islands, export promotion, import substitution, food security, so they also qualify for that.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON- Thank you.

Any further comments Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

The speech I did in regards to the agricultural sector emphasised a lot of my concern about so many ‘Rs’ (Requisitions) in this very important ministry.
I want to actually move a motion, Madam Chair, pursuant to Standing Order 100(2) I move without notice that this whole total Head 30 that the ‘R’ to be removed so that they can access this fund.

Thank you.

(Chorus of Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, fill the form.

Honourable Minister of Finance, would you like to clarify on whether that can be done or not?

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, the Honourable Member cannot do that as under Standing Order 100, you can only move a motion to amend the numbers.

You either increase it or decrease it or remove it completely.

You cannot change “Rs” or put it in.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Anymore?

Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Then in that case my motion is to increase the budget to $80 million.

(Chorus of Iterjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, you can fill the form.
Any other comments to Agriculture - Programme 1, Activity 3 and Activity 4?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, just a clarification from the Honourable Member, you will have to state which Programme, which Activity and which Segment.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- That is right on the form.

Activity 5?

No other comment.


Thank you very much we will deal with the motion for amendment and the first motion for amendment that we have before the House, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Nawaikula and the question is, that Head 30, Programme 1, Activity 1 be increased by $1 million in respect of SEG 6 and that is for Tutu Training Centre.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, I am moving this motion basically to thank the Government.
I do not have much to thank the Government for, but this is one and I wish 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 701 to thank them for that and also to bring to the public support for this kind of offices.

The motion will be lost but I will achieve my purpose in exposing this.

So, thank you very much.

Now, the need for this non-formal education has been there for a long time and the problem that we have in this country is that one of the big problem is the urban migration.
We need people, especially indigenous people to remain in the villages.

The villages have so much to teach us.

You know the UN and Pope Francis have said “indigenous people teach us how to be friendly with nature, how to live resourcefully, to be friendly with the environment and they also have a right.” So, we must apply every resource to allow them to exercise that right and these institutions or these type of programmes allow exactly that.
It allows to train individuals in a non-formal way to feed back into their villages or rural areas and to become useful citizens as well as to participate in the national life.

That is the reason why I am asking for an increase in this.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone else want to have an input to that?

There being none then Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Nawaikula.
The question is that Head 30 Programme 1, Activity 1be increased by $1 million in respect of SEG 6 and that is for Tutu Training centre.

Does anyone oppose?

HON GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPESON.- There being opposition, Parliament will put this to the vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

There is another motion here.


Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

The question is, that Head 30 be increased by $80 million in respect of the whole Head.

I ask the Honourable Tikoca to speak on the motion.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I actually applaud the Minister for Agriculture when he actually uses the word “mechanisation” and that does not actually tailor to the truth that this Budget reflect.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 702 Mechanisation is what every tikina in Fiji needs.

You provide us tractors and accessories so that it can assist the people in each tikina to actually expedite on their farming and now only $800,000 is actually allocated for that.

So therefore I propose that the whole head without the ‘R’ be given $80 million.

Thank you, Madam.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you .

Does anyone want to speak?

HON.


A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, the motion is flawed because the motion, Madam Chair, on Standing Order 100(2) says that the amendments are in order only if it is says the name of the Head be increased by whatever amount as is already been stated in respect of sub-head or item.

From what we have heard Madam Chair has been read it is just the Head.

So again we, ask you cannot do that you cannot do that you have to state which programme which activity which SEG.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Ratu Tikoca would you like to speak in reply?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Yes, thank you.

Specifically 30.1.1.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Which SEG?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Be very careful.

You are treading on a very thin line!

Okay?

(Laughter and interjections) We’re working on this.

I’ll see you later.

SEG 9 – Farm mechanisation 30-1-.2 9 mechanisation, $800,000.
(Chorus of Interjections) If you calculate the number of tikina in Fiji and you work out the in medium size it will actually come to about $4 million, increase it up to $80 million.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

The motion has been amended.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

The question is, that Head 30 be increased by $80 million in respect of 30-1-2 SEG 9 - Farm Mechanisation.

Would you like to speak further on the motion?

HON.

RATU I.D.
HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- This SEG will increase to the difference between $80 million and $76 million, which is $4 million, only on that one because that will actually increase the whole Head.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone want to speak on the motion?

Honourable Nawaikula.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 703 HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I support the motion, Madam Chair, because the motion is all about priority, prioritising where we go to.
In terms of the Budget, priority areas was education, good, because that is being increased, we need more teachers, health, because we need more hospitals, and there is one that is misplaced, the Security Forces.

They should not be there, that should not be our priority.

So, you should take that out and apply it to Agriculture because we need this, it will help us grow.

So I support it for that reason.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Anyone else?

Honourable Tupou Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.


DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I support this motion too because there is plenty of land in Navosa that lies idle, that would benefit from increased mechanisation and also from Namosi.
I heard from the Honourable Tui Namosi sitting here, Madam Chair, that is the reason why I support this motion and as to the previous motion, the reason why I supported it is that I was going to ask the Minister but I just got up too late and whether the concept of Tutu Farms could be exported to Viti Levu as well and something could be setup in Viti Levu.
I know for certain, Navosa would be more than happy to accommodate such programme and before I sit down, because I am supporting the Tutu and agriculture and all this, I have to disclose another issue that may be of conflict, I used to do a little bit of work for them years and years ago.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, I stand to support the motion too.
In regards to the increase from $80,000 to $4 million, in the Labasa Agriculture office alone, there is one tractor and that tractor you can only hire for rice ploughing and the iTaukei landowners there (farmers), when they want to hire it for cassava or dalo ploughing, you cannot do that.

So if the Ministry can invest into this to provide more machines there that allow indigenous landowners to utilise their land using machines.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.

HON.


RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

This is most applicable to Naitasiri province and Naitasiri, it is not really tractors and if you go up Naitasiri you will see all the excavators or diggers that can till the slopey hills, so that is mechanisation.

As I have always alluded to, because our potential as farmers, physically you can only cultivate one or two square chains of ginger or dalo.
If we have to expand, then Naitasiri and Namosi need excavators, and I support the motion.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Dulakiverata.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 704 HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, I support the motion.

The time for tilling land with folk and spade are no more.

This is the way to go, the country will benefit and there are lots of effects to this thing.
It will also provide employment opportunity because people who can use the land will employ other people and they will increase productivity.

There are lots of benefits and it will also give the options to our youths who are not employed at the moment, instead of waiting for a job, they might want to go to the village.

We have heard of a few millionaires in the villages planting grog, that is from using spade and folk.

Now on mechanisation, we will have a lot of this, so I fully support the motion.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other input?

If there is none I will ask the Honourable Alvick Maharaj.

HON.

A.A. MAHARAJ.- Madam Chair, I rise not to support this motion because I believe whatever has been allocated, the Ministry of Agriculture is sufficient enough, that is why I do not support this motion.

(Chorus of Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I will give the floor to the Honourable Leader of the Opposition.

HON.

RO T.V.
HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Madam Chair, it is alright for him because he is a pharmacist so he does not have to rely on a farm.

(Laughter) In terms of this mechanisation that is here on the floor, we have a small farm in Rewa that is about 20 acres and it is under organic rice, the Honourable Minister for Agriculture knows about it.

There is just one machine that can plant rice, it drills the hole, puts the rice seed in and covers it so that the birds do not get at the seeds and it can do two acres in one day.
So that is the type of thing that one machine can do which would take how many people to do those two hectares and one day to plant, so that is just one machine.

There are other machines that work on that farm, so that was to be done in other farms in Fiji, I am sure it would really help in terms of food security that the Honourable Minister of Agriculture is looking at and also for our exports.

So I am supporting this motion on the floor.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Does anyone else want to have an input?

There being none, I now give the floor to the Honourable Gavoka.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Can I also add to the dialogue Madam Chair.

I fully support this, Madam Chair.

We come from the West and it is very sad seeing all this cane land that used to be blossoming with cane, now lying fallow, it is all over most of Nadroga, Ra and Ba.
There is so much land that is there and you can tell that our people want to use the land but because they left it for a bit too long, the land now are overgrown.

They want to work but it is 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 705 so daunting now the way things have overgrown.

I believe if you intervene now, with some heavy machinery, you can get our people who are keen to farm, to move in and farm.

I believe that very strongly.

It helps in the land and shows them that it can be done.
They are very keen to do it, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.

Thank you.

I now give the floor to the Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca to speak in reply, if he wants to.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- No Madam, I am fine.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister for Agriculture.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, may I just clarify a few things before we perhaps vote.

Let me assure the Honourable House that definitely mechanisation is a priority for the Ministry and Government.
However, we have to tread cautiously as well for a few reasons.

With machinery, it comes with a lot of maintenance costs as well, and of course we need to have operators trained for it too.

Government has already bought diggers.

This has already being placed in Lakena and of course in Nacocolevu and there is intention to continue to buy more, but it is not Government working in an isolation, we are working with our partners as well.
The Madam Leader of the Opposition has just indicated about the Grace Road Food Company and they have machineries for rice.

China has already given us machines as well for rice now, equivalent to what Grace Road has, and it will be distributed probably early December once we have the next shipment arriving in Fiji.

What we are doing for next year, particularly Madam Chair, and I need to clarify this to address the issue on mechanisation, it is not only from the mechanisation allocation of $800,000.
We have the flat land allocation that will involve diggers, so we are engaging into heavy machinery.

There is another allocation for land clearing, which is another $500,000.

This is again the use of heavy machines, not exactly the tractors.

We want to minimise the use of tractors because tractors operate very well in flat land, but very limited to tiller joining.

However, when it comes to diggers, they do roading, drainage, land clearing and land cultivation as well.
So that is how we can factor in the other needs apart from the mechanisation as well.

We need to monitor it and then next year, definitely, this will be reviewed.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Tikoca, ‘ HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you Madam Chair.

I thank the Honourable Minister who is saying that by next year, which is what I am referring to, that it will be reviewed.

So this is the Budget for next year, and I hope that he will actually raise it up to that $4 million.
I thank you for supporting it.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 706 (Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Parliament will now vote in the name of the Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

The question is, that Head 30 be increased by $4 million with respect to 30-1-2 SEG 9 - Farm Mechanisation.

Does anyone oppose the motion?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 17 28 3 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, there have been no other amendments.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, Activity 2, Programme 1 there is a new allocation of $2 million under SEG 8.

Can the Honourable Minister inform this House what is the intention of this partnership project and who will be the partners in this exercise?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, I have already answered that question.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Thank you, I did not hear it.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much, Honourable Members.

HON.

RATU S.V.

NANOVO.- Madam Chair, on SEG 7, Activity 2, can the Honourable Minister responsible give us a brief update on the legislation and policies that have been revised, crafted in 2015 and what other legislations and policies still need some work to warrant the $100,000 allocation?

Thank you Madam Chair.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


Most of these legislations will be appearing in the House next year.

We have the Cover Bill, the Feed Bill and the Livestock Sector.

I have about 32 Acts under the Ministry and there are opinions to have a consolidated Act, rather than having it separately, but those that are ready will be tabled before the House next year.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Are there any other comment?

I think they are now ready to vote for the Head.


Parliament will now vote on Head 30, the question is, that the amount of Head 30 Ministry of Agriculture be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 707 (Chorus of Interjections) HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, are we voting on the Head now?

There are other Activities that we have not touched.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We have already.


I have already asked for all the other Activities.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- We are moving very fast.

Just a final one, very important.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Sure.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- That is on Head 30-2-2 in regards to the Yaqona Development Programme and Dalo Development Programme.

It is a very important one, whether the Honourable Minister can explain after this Budget is approved, when the applications can start coming in and if help can come right away.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 2, Activity 2 - which SEG?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- SEG 8.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- SEG 8.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I did explain this during my Budget response yesterday.

These are two new allocations for yaqona and dalo.


Previously these two commodities come under the existing programmes, whether it be food security, RIO, import substitution for the demand driven programmes that we have, but we have decided and of course asked the Government based on the market survey that we did.

There is a huge gap between demand and the current production levels and thus the need for the separation allocations.

When is the best time to submit applications?


Now, is the best time to submit applications, particularly given the gap and of course this is the dalo planting season, beginning August and we need the application soonest as so that come January and February next year the project should be rolling.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Still open to any input on any of this Activities on agriculture.

Honourable Ratu Kiliraki you have the floor.

HON.


RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Head 30-2-2, still on SEG 8 with regards to Ginger Development Programme ($800,000).

Can the Honourable Minister explain the accessibility of this allocation, who qualifies and how can an individual farmer be able to get assistance from this allocation?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 708 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


Ginger allocation has increased from $500,000 to $800,000 this year.

The concentration for Ginger is particularly in the Central Division, although there are farmers in the North, West, particularly in the interior of Ra.
There is a lot of interest now for ginger farming but the advice that we always give, particularly to our farmers “identify your market outlets first and then come and submit your application to the Ministry of Agriculture” because of the fact that the buyers give quotas to the farmers and whether it will be land preparation or for planting materials or for agro inputs, fertiliser and others.
So that is one of the main criteria if you have a market and then of course, if you are within the region that is recommended by Agriculture suitable for ginger.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, I give the floor to the Honourable Vadei.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

In regards to SEG 8 of the same Programme and Activity, we have received news or information regarding the termites attacking sugarcane in the Drasa and Lololo areas.
I did not see any control by the Ministry of Agriculture in that respect in these various sectors.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

It is under the Biosecurity Authority of Fiji (BAF) and they have their own allocation, it does not come under Agriculture.

Quarantine is now under BAF.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Dulakiverata.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- I would like to comment on the explanation by the Honourable Minister on farmers, the markets.
I raised this in the last couple of Parliamentary session regarding the dilemma farmers get because there is a very loose arrangement with the buyers.

That is why they cannot plant because the buyers use them.

If they are going to secure their markets, then there should be a signed agreement by the buyer and the farmer, as that should be the way to go.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

The quota is the agreement.


Prices are not regulated, it is a free market, it is an undertaking between the buyer and the supplier, but of course the Ministry do monitor the pricing because we know production costs from the various regions but it is a transaction between two parties, and Government has a very limited control over pricing.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, Head 30-3-2, SEG 8 on Livestock Rehabilitation.
Can the Honourable Minister ensure that once this is committed, that is, are they available for the farmers from January?

I say this, Madam Chair, because this year, farmers were promised fancy materials and they are still waiting for it.

Every time they go to the Ministry, they are told that the Tender Board is yet to sit, it is already November, so really the delivery of it has to be as early as possible in the year.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 709 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, your comment is noted.

Any other comments?

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister enlighten us as to what programmes are in place, which areas or which farmers who had planted cocoa in the Wainibuka, Naitasiri area can qualify.

Namao is a good example, they have been producing cocoa and chocolate.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, everyone qualifies.


For Tailevu, the main three plantations are the one in Dawasamu, Namau, and of course Colata in Wainibuka.

Of course, there is Matasawalevu in Macuata and there are a few others.

Again, increase in allocation for next year, simply because the nucleus cocoa projects that were planted years ago have been neglected for a while and the allocation were too small.
I think it was just a hundred thousand in the previous years, and it is not creating the impact that we wanted to achieve and there is a big demand now for cocoa, thus this increase in allocation, of course, and definitely, we will look into the bigger plantations first.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Still on SEG 8, back to yaqona and dalo.

What concept is the Honourable Minister going to use in regards to finding the market?
The Ministry will be facilitating an exporter in regards to the individual farmers who will be contracted to supply to the market and the Ministry will be monitoring that because it is giving grant to the individual dalo and yaqona farmers.

What concept is the Ministry going to use?

HON.

LT. COL. I.B.
HON.

LT. COL. I.B.

SERUIRATU.- Madam Chair, the concept that we want to introduce next year is clusters approach, agricultural hubs, whatever we may call it, and hopefully, we will later, as they progress, we will form cooperatives out of these clusters as well.

When it comes to dalo, different exporters have their different dalo varieties that they prefer.

Peni Moi is the biggest buyer for tausala but the good news, Madam Chair, I have talked about us doing market research and market promotion as well.
After the promotion in Australia and New Zealand, the need now for any yellow dalo whether it be maleka dina, jabeni, rewa, there are different names.

Any yellow dalo, there is significant increase in their demand, and of course, uro ni vonu as well.

A lot of people now, their preference is uro ni vonu.
Like I have said, different buyers, different varieties based on their markets and that is where we will concentrate next year but in terms of the cluster approach, we will identify the buyer and then we will identify his group of suppliers and then we will monitor the value chain within to make sure that whatever is demanded is produced, thank you, Madam Chair.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 710 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much, any other comments on any Activity?
Parliament will now vote on Head 30, the question is, that the amount of Head No.

30 - Ministry of Agriculture be approved, does any Member oppose the motion?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 27 14 7 Motion agreed to.

Head 30 agreed to.

Head No.

32 - Ministry of Fisheries and Forests HON.


RATU S. NANOVO.- Madam Chair, from SEG 1, there is a reduction in personal emoluments of $208.9, can the Honourable Minister explain why there is a reduction?

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, this is equivalent to the Ministry of Women and Youth.

It is the Permanent Secretary’s salary that will be shifted to PSC.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments on Activity 1, Activity 2?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 1, Activity 1?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 2, Activity 1?

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, Programme 1, Activity 2, SEG 4, Data Link Rental $91,500, can the Honourable Minister be able to explain that allocation?

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, the details are clearly explained in the Budget Supplement where it is linked to our Forestry and Fisheries Stations across the nation.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 711 HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- The answer, as explained in the book, is publicly available, especially to landowners who can make assessments for carpentry purposes.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, no comment, not in the Estimates.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.

HON.
HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, 32-1-1 on Personal Emoluments as well as SEG 2; can the Honourable Minister say how many established staff are catered for by the $971,477 allocation under SEG 1, as well as, can the Honourable Minister also tell us how many Government Wage Earners are facilitated by the $263,349 allocation under SEG 2?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, we are reviewing our Ministry so we will let you know next year.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments or questions?

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, the reservation costs for Nadarivatu Forest - $2,500.

This is in SEG 7, Programme 2, Activity 2.

In regards to Nadarivatu Forests – De-Reservation.

I know that this de reservation has been in progress for a while.

Can the Honourable Minister be able to qualify the $2,500 in regards to Nadarivatu Forests?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you Honourable Minister.

HON.
HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- It is an operational cost that will be carried out in Nadarivatu area for the programme.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chairperson, still on that page 207, SEG 7 – Programme 2 – Activity 2 – Reducing emissions from de-forestation and forest degradation.

World Bank ($2.2million); can you explain that particular aid, please?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.


O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chairperson, this is the fund that is being allocated to my Ministry from the World Bank for Fiji to prepare itself for the REDD+ programme from 2019 onwards.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 712 HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- SEG 8 also Madam Chair.

It is reducing emissions from de-forestation and forest degradation or REDD+.
This allocation for $100,000 and aid in kind reducing emissions from REDD+ World Bank.

There is another $300,000 there in aid in kind.

Can the Minister make an explanation on this allocation?.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chairperson, this is all part of the programme.

This is the Government’s contribution to the Earth Hour Programme.

Thank you MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Still on REDD, this is another thing that concerns climate change, the same way as we have from the Minister for Primary Industries - the mitigation thing.

Could you explain to the House how this is linked to the National Policy on Climate Change?

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chairperson, there is nothing in the Estimates.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please just comment on the allocation, Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- I just want to ask the Honourable Minister to explain or to clarify for the benefit of the landowners who want to benefit for this REDD+ programme on how this whole concept arrangement works, can you enlighten this august House?

HON.
HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chairperson, in this process what goes down to the landowners, especially the area, forest area being identified by my Ministry, the Government will discuss now they are currently negotiating with iTLTB to secure that parcel of area so what goes down to the landowners is the rental that goes down to the resource owners.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- How many landowners have benefitted so far from the rent?

HON.
HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- We are still working on it, we will tell you the number next year MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Bulitavu, please just comment on the allocations that is reflected in the Estimates HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chairperson, why this is important because I am a landowner, I also contribute to REDD+.
The Estimates, that is why we are confused, because when officials from the Forestry, department, Conservator and all those officials come down to the village, they explain to us landowners, but they do not tell us the formula of how they are going to distribute this REDD+ allocation, even iTLTB does not have.

We, the landowners, cannot enter into a MOU within the Government Trader, because Ministry of Forestry comes in as a mediator.
What arrangement is there that gives up the share, can you further explain 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 713 because it is getting confusing to us and we are getting frustrated, that is why we are moving to other ….

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- So, do you think this allocation is not enough?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- No, no.

HON.

M.D.


BULITAVU.- Well, he has to answer first, because whether the allocation that we are given, the share that will go to the landowners will be dependent on the formula of distribution that will be used by the Ministry and iTLTB.

that goes down as rental.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chairperson, as I already mentioned, right now we are discussing with iTLTB, we are negotiating with them.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Leader of the Opposition.

HON.

RO T.V.
HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Madam Chairperson, can the Honourable Minister explain Programme 2 – Activity 1 – SEG 7 under Sustainable Management of Vulnerable Forests in the Rewa Delta, can you just give us a short clarification?

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- It is really our contribution to the ITTO, especially for the conservation and sustainable yield for the Rewa delta, especially on the mangroves area.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

RO T.V.


KEPA.- Can I just further question on that, do you also manage Honourable Minister the licences that are given for the cutting of mangroves because people just come along and cut the mangroves and sometimes they are very tall trees and we are told that they have been provided with a licence, can you just clarify that?

Who provides the licence for this people to cut mangroves?

HON.
HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- We issue the licence, if there is any complaint, we lodge it in our office is Nausori.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- I will come and complain to you Honourable Minister.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Okay, thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Nawaikula HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- SEG 8 32 – 2 – Reducing emissions it is $100,000 for construction, what is that for?

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Already answered.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Already answered.


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 714 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Who will be the lease title in this REDD+ programme be written to - to the Ministry or to the Trader or it is a partnership between the mataqali, and the Government.

This is for the area that will be reserved.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Member, we are really going outside of the ambit.
That kind of information you can get it later on, but right now, let us focus on the Budget allocation of $100,000 whether it is too much or too little, otherwise we will be going on and on and we are going into the Programme and Activities and that is not within the Budget.

Please speak on the Budget, whether we have enough or not enough.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, Head 32-2-1 -SEG 6: Fiji Pine Trust extension $560,124 (page 207).
There will be two questions on that SEG, Madam Chair, one is the Fiji Pine Trust, can we have some information on the allocation, in regards to the purpose and who it is allocated to and the other one is Forest subsidy on value adding machines ($50,000); can you explain on this subsidy provisions and who qualifies.

Thank you MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, it is clearly explained in the supplementary detail of the Budget, page 218.

HON.
HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Read it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 2, Forestry Activity 3, any comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIPERSON.- Activity 4, any comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 2 – Forestry, Activity 5, any comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Programme 2 – Forestry, Activity 6, any comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 715 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 7, any comments?

Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, just on Programme 2, Activity 5 - the Sandalwood Development Programme, can the Honourable Minister just highlight to us what is this allocation for and what is the progress to-date on this?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister, the Sandalwood Development Programme – SEG 8.

HON.
HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, it is clearly explained in the Supplement.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Read it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Can you please explain the Supplement?

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- The answer is already provided, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU.K KILIRAKI.- Activity 5, Programme 2, SEG 8.

Research and Development of Wood and Non Wood Species, $150,000.

We need clarification and definitions of those items, Madam Chair.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister, Research and Development of Wood and Non Wood Species- $150,000.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair.

The Ministry is currently researching on other forest products for processing.

There are other species that we have identified with some of our overseas partners, we are currently working on those particular species, especially on energy.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

Activity 6.

HON.

RATU K KILIRAKI.- SEG 8 , Activity 6.


Deforestation of derogated forest ($500,000).

That is on page 211.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- What is your question?

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- The $500,000, can the Honourable Minister please advise the contribution of local partners in the location, the development and the progress of the deforestation of derogated forest.

This will be in relation to Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation Plus (REDD+), as we have alluded to before.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 716 HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, as clearly explained in the Budget Supplement, page 224, last paragraph.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON- In the Budget Supplement.

Any other comments on Activity 7, Honourable Karavaki.

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Yes, that is right.

Can I ask the Honourable Minister, Head 32-2-7 SEG 9, the Lakeba Pine Scheme is mentioned there, an allocation of $200,000 for the purchase of equipment.
With the understanding that the pine in Lakeba is ready to be harvested and already been under going through harvesting now, can the Honourable Minister consider increasing the allocation there to $0.5 million?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Are you moving your motion?

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, please fill in the form and you will speak to it further.

Any other comments?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Can the Honourable Minister explain what that $200,000 is about?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I think we will debate it when we ….

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- It is clearly explained in the Supplement that it is for our equipment to utilise the Matua pine plantation in Lakeba.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Thank you Madam Chair, still on SEG 9 on Pine Woodlot Logging packages was allocated $500,000 in 2015 and $400,00 now in 2016.
Can the Honourable Minister explain what specific activities have been implemented this year, what work has been done and what work will be done in 2016?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON- I do not think this really ….

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- On page 226 is the continuation of Government assistance.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comment?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I tend to remind Honourable Members please do not use this as a vehicle to try and look at your past performances, but just look at what has been allocated for in 2016 and let us talk on that.

The past performance is the role of PAC.

Any other comments?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 717 HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 2 - Offshore, Fisheries and Economy.

Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- Activity 2-3-2 SEG 7, an amount of $300,000 has been allocated to hosting the 13th Western/Central Pacific Fisheries Commission.

Could the Honourable Minister explain how much the Commission would be contributing to this?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, for the information of the Honourable Member, the Commission is contributing but the figures I can give it later.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comment?


Honourable Salote Radrodro.

HON.

S.V.

RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair, on Programme 3, Activity 5, SEG 8 on Coastal Fisheries Development, there is a $500,000 allocation.

Can the Honourable Minister just briefly inform us on what kind of development this is, considering the maritime islands?

It is right at the top of page 219 – SEG 8.

Am I moving too fast?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- No, that is very good.

(Chorus of Interjections) HON.


O. NAIQAMU.- 32-3 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.

- Excuse me, please will just respond to the questioner.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, I just draw the attention of the Honourable Member to page 232 of the Supplement, there is the detail of the $500,000.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, Programme 3, Activity 2, SEG 4, there are the vessels, fuel and oil $10,000, vessels, spare parts and maintenance $21,000.
Can the Honourable Minister explain where this money is and what vessels have been allocated this money?

As I understand, offshore fisheries is in regards to vessels fishing outside and can the Honourable Minister be able to explain that one?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, it is our monitoring cost.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 718 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any more comments?

Programme 3, Activity 6; Aquaculture: Any other comments?
Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Programme 3, Activity 6; Aquaculture, SEG 8.

There is bio-diversity enhancement page 219.

Could you explain that please, the sum of $100,000.

HON.

O. NAIQAMU.- Madam Chair, it is clearly explained in 2, 3, 4 from the notes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- I want to read the whole Aquaculture Report there so that I can answer.

(Laughter) (Chorus of Interjections ) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which SEG are you referring to?
HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Then answer questions, it is not here.

Go and read it now because it is time to read, so I read.

(Laughter) “Major increases in this activity in capital construction which has an increased allocation.

(This will take one whole day) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which Programme, which Activity, which SEG are you referring to?

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- All the Programme, all the Activity, Madam Chair, because the answer from that end is read, so now I am reading all.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will read that outside of this Chamber.

(Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.

Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Activity 6, SEG 8, in regards to food security programme, aqua-culture $500,000.

I would ask how would this translate to like in Naitasiri, for food security where it is very difficult to have protein food supplies from fish, how it can translate to places like Naitasiri and Namosi.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 719 Details of explanations on SEG 8, is in the Supplement, please read the Supplement and if you read it, do you think this $500,000 needs an increase or reduction or shall we leave it as is?

HON.

OPPOSITION MEMBER.- All is good.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much, all is good.

We have one motion.
We have one motion.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Semesa Karavaki and the question is, that Head 32, be increased by $300,000 in respect of Head 32-2-7 with respect to the Lakeba Pine Scheme.

I will now give the floor to the Honourable Karavaki to speak on his motion.

HON.

S.D.
HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Thank you Madam Chair, first of all I would like to thank the Government for talking the first step, this initiative to allocate $200,000 for the purchase of equipment for the harvesting of pine logs on Lakeba Island.

The pines on Lakeba Island, are being harvested now.
It is actually ready to contribute directly to the economy of the country and it will contribute millions of dollars to the country, not only to the economy of the island but the economy of the whole country and this $200,000 is a first step.

If you increase it to $500,000, it will be able to accommodate and take care of all the needed facilities to be in place for the harvesting of these pine trees on Lakeba Island.
It will be able to also assist not only in the machine but in the whole harvesting and the equipment for the sawing for the sawmill.

As I have said Madam Chair, this is a first step and I congratulate the Government for doing this but if they agree to give another $300,000 to take it up to $500,000, it will give the country millions of dollars and boost the growth of the economy of the country.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to speak on the motion?

Honourable Ratu Kiliraki.


HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Madam Chair, I support the increase simply from the economic gain side if there is any valuation of the whole.

I understand Lakeba is a big Island where it is full of pine.

If you can make evaluation of how many millions of pine that can be harvested from there and if you value add in Lakeba, the amount is into the millions.

Even the ply boards from pine, even ply boards are not available at the moment.
If you go to the hardware, you ask for 3mm ply boards, they are not available.

All over Fiji for the last how many months, so that is another factor.

Not only harvesting but you have to value add in Lakeba to be able to export it and there is no limit to the maximum production of pine in Lakeba.

So, I support the motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I thank Naitasiri for the support to Lakeba.
Does anyone else want to make any… 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 720 Honourable Karavaki with that comment, do you want to speak in reply?

None, thank you very much.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Semesa Karavaki and the question is that Head 32 be increased by $300,000 in respect of Head 32-2-7.

Does anyone oppose the motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.
Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

Any motion on this particular Head?

Parliament will now Vote on Head No.

32, and the question is that the amount of Head No.

32, Ministry of Fisheries and Forest be approved.

There being opposition, we will vote on the motion.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 26 14 8 Head 32 agreed to.
Head 33: Ministry of Lands and Mineral Resources MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head 33 is now open for debate and we will look at Programme 1, Activity 1, do you have any comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 721 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 2, Activity 1?

Honourable Leawere you have the floor.

HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Madam Chair, SEG 1, can the Honourable Minister explain the $189,000 - 123 deductions, personal emoluments, the allocation in that SEG?

HON.
HON.

M R. VUNIWAQA.- Thank you.

That is the transfer of the Permanent Secretary’s salary to PSC.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, I think this is about the third or the fourth time we are asking the same question and I am sure we all should understand why the reduction on emoluments.

Please let us not repeat that, but thank you very much.

Any other comment?

Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.


A.M. RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister inform us on the environmental monitoring of mines and quarries of $120,000?

What is the intention on this?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which Programme, Activity and SEG are you referring to?

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- 32-2-1 SEG 7.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- The role of our Environmental Unit has been expanded to include assessment of gravel extraction and also dredging and foreshore leases.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments and clarifications?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 2, Activity 2 - Oil and Mines Acts Administration.

Any comments?

Activity 1 on Land Management – State Land Administration, any comments?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Biman Prasad.. HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Yes, Madam Chair, just a quick question to the Honourable Minister.

See, on one hand there is a deduction in the personal emoluments in that Activity.
However, my concern is whether the reduction in staff, assuming that it is a reduction in staff because we know that the Lands Ministry has not been able to deal with a lot of State land lease renewals.

The leases which have been renewed, application put in place, have not been dealt with for years now.

I would like the Minister to assure us whether this is going to reduce the capacity, further to be able to deal with State leases and their renewal more efficiently and effectively.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 722 HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Madam Chair, is that Programme 3 Activity 1?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- That is a reduction there because the salaries of the valuation staff there have been moved to Activity 3 – there is a new activity - Evaluation.

So, it is not a reduction of staff, it is just a transfer of funds to a new activity.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON- Thank you.

Any other comments.


Programme 3 Activity 2 – Land Management.

HON.

J.D.

DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, can we go back to Programme 3 Activity 1 under Land Management – State Land Administration - SEG 4.

The reversion of Government land Schedules A and B ($500,000).

Can that be explained?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- This is for the transmission of Schedule A and B lands.
It is under the Director of Lands at the moment to iTLTB to transmit those leases back to iTLTB we need those funds.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you any more comments?

HON.

J.D.

DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, this land had already been transferred to the iTLTB what is this expenses for, for $500,000?

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- The gazettal has been done but the leases themselves they have to be given back to iTLTB.

Those have to be redone and given to iTLTB.

HON.
HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, in the last session I posed a question to the Honourable Prime Minister on what is the progress of the allocation of those lands that have already been transferred from Lands Department to the iTLTB and he replied “that they are already working on it and he would give a written explanation.” Up to this time there is still no written explanation and if he said that it is already been there that means the transfer had already been done.

So what is this $500,000 for?

HON.


M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Page 240 of the Supplement explains the process that needs to be done for this transmission of leases back to iTLTB.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comments?

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, a general question on SEG 33.2.1 on Geology.

Can I just ask how many qualified Geologists do we have in the Ministry?

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- I can provide that information later, it is not relevant to the Budget.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Aseri Radrodro you have the floor.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 723 HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Thank you Madam Chair, can the Honourable Minister on Programme 3, Activity 1 SEG 7 – I would like to ask what is this Schedule A rental ($78,000) and these arrears task force of $200,000.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Programme?

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Programme 33.1.7 HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Which one is this?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Schedule A SEG 7.

HON.

M.R.


VUNIWAQA.- Is it the Lease Arrears Task Force or Schedule 7?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Both.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- This Arrears Task Force is a taskforce that has been set up to collect the arrears of state leases that is due.

I said in my Budge Speech up until third quarter they have collected $12.4 million and the Schedule A rental or Schedule A lands that is with the Director of Lands at the moment and which is under transmission to iTLTB.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any more comment?

HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Madam Chair, just on what Honourable Gavoka had said in terms of the Geologist.

When we went to Namosi, we found out that the officials from MRD, none of them have any idea of what is happening there in terms of what the mining camp is doing when we went there on our site visit.

So we hope that there is some provisions.


I do not know where, it is here in the allocation for people to be trained in that area so that we do not have to depend across the sea.

To have training for our people I hope there is some provisions in the Budge, I am not sure where I can.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Just tell us if we have any geologist.

Come on it is got to be on your fingertips you should know your Ministry.

It is a very simple question, you should know if you have geologist or not.

HON.

M.R.
HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Scan the Budget, please.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- I am asking a very general question.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which Programme, Activity and SEG please?

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Madam Chair, there are provisions here for general questions.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, which one.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- I am just asking a general question because … MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- No, we cannot accommodate general questions, please refer to a specific budget allocation.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 724 HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- SEG 1 – out of this emoluments are there Geologist in these emoluments?

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Yes four.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- It makes it easy when you identify SEG, which SEG you are referring to.

Any further comment?

Honourable Karavaki.

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Madam Chair, on Programme 3, Activity 3, SEG 4, it states i Taukei Lands leased to State which is $2.3 million and the next one is renewal of native lease.
Can the Honourable Minister just explain the nature of lease for the State leasing the native land when it has the State land to control?

What is the nature of this arrangement and why and how the State is leasing these native lands?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Madam Minister.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Thank you.

The State does lease native land for some Government structures, like hospitals, schools.

These are all Government structures on native leases.
There are 548 (total) native leases leased by the State.

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- Madam Chair, does that apply to the provisions of acquiring property for public purposes?.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- This is a lease.

HON.

S.D.

KARAVAKI.- What I am saying here is that there can be an arrangement whether the State takes on that land and acquires it for the purpose of becoming the owner of the land or they should make the lease arrangement because that will be the beneficial for the landowners.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- This is the lease.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Dulakiverata.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.

I just want to ask a supplementary question to that.

How many native leases to State, how many have not been surveyed, and how many surveyors are working on this Programme?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- SEG?

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Head 33-3-2, SEG 8.

HON.

M.R.


VUNIWAQA.- I have already stated there are 548 leases by the State on itaukei land.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 725 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other comment?

Honourable Draunidalo.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I may be jumping the gun, I was looking at 33-3-5.

Are we up to there yet?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes, yes.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


Could the Honourable Minister tell us whether that Land Use Unit is the one which has this so called Land Bank?

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Yes, it is.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- I have a few motions, Madam Chair.

Can I move?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Yes.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- I suppose each SEG there.

Madam Chair, pursuant to Standing 100 (2), I wish to without notice move a motion that Head 33 be decreased by $950,983.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which Programme, which Activity please?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- SEG 1, 33-3-5.

That is the first motion.

I was going to ask for all SEGS to be moved.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- All SEGs of Land Use Unit?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Yes, I will go through each SEG.

Do you want me to go through one by one or I put it all into one motion?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Put it all into one motion because you will be speaking on them now.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Sure.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Kiliraki.

HON.

RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Head 33, Programme 3, Activity 2, SEG 8.

Survey of Mahogany plantations $300,000.

Can the Honourable Minister explain the extension of the survey plantations because on the ground currently, there has been a lot of disputes in Nukurua where there are a lot of mataqalis that have mahogany plantations within the Nukurua Stations?

So the survey of Mahogany plantations for $300,000.
Could the Minister explain to what extent the survey has been done?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 726 HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Thank you, the budget of $300,000 for next year is targeted for Nukurua to continue works in Nukurua and also for Naboutini.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Leawere, you have the floor.

HON.

M.R.
HON.

M.R.

LEAWERE.- Madam Chair, on SEG 4, Programme 3, Activity 5, on land buy-back administration of $7000, is it a scheme to buy-back land that had been acquired because I know about Namaqumaqua, the village is just located on small based freehold.

I just want to find out if the allocation is to be used in that regard HON.

M.R.
M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- No, it is not to buy-back land, it is to administer the parcels of land that had been bought by Government over the years, there are 26 parcels and this is for the administration of those.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you have any allocation anywhere in your budget that you will enable the buy-back land that had been mentioned?

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- No, buy-back is not policy of Government.

MADAM CHAIPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Dulakiverata.

HON.


J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, on Programme 3, Activity 2, SEG 8 on the Mahogany plantation survey $300,000.

Now most of the mahogany plantations are being harvested and these leases have not being surveyed.

Now, going to survey is s big project.

How many registered surveys in the Ministry of Lands.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBER.- Four.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- How are you going to carry out this survey when you only have four people to do all the survey in the whole country?
HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- We have a work plan every year as I have stated for the mahogany plantations, we have got two plantations earmarked for next year.

There are project officers that work under this registered surveyors, we do not send a survey team, you do not need five registered survey in a survey team.

Honourable Member should know that.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Normally you have a registered surveyor with technicians to work with them.
(Inaudible Interjections) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comment?

Programme 3 Land Management, Activity 4 State land and development, any questions?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 727 HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 3 Activity 5 Land Use Unit, we have done.

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 6 Divisional land office, central, eastern?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

HON.


RATU K. KILIRAKI.- Activity 5, SEG 10, Land Bank investment $2.5million, can the Minister please inform us… MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I think let us not touch on this programme again because there is a motion that we have from the Opposition on this particular Activity and Programme.

Let us go to Programme 3, Land Management Activity 8, Divisional land office, Northern?

Honourable Dulakiverata.

HON.


J. DULAKIVERATA.- Programme 3, Activity 3 SEG 4 Page 227 Madam Chair, Renewal of Native Lease.

You have $750,000 there, almost a million.

Can the Honourable Minister explain why $750,000?

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- It is for the renewal of the expired leases.

HON.

J. DULAKIVEARATA.- How many Government leases from the NLTB will expire next year to warranty that $750,000 expense?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you think we should reduce this amount?

HON.
HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- No, until we know the number.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- I do not have that number with me, but I can provide it to you later.

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- It will be useless.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

We will move on to Programme 3 – Land Management, and that is the last one.

Activity 8, any comments on that?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 728 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.
That brings it to the end and we will now move on to the amendment.

The motion that we have before us, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Tupou Draunidalo.

The question is, that Head 33 be decreased by $1.535, 216 in respect of Activity 5 – Land Use Unit.

I ask the Honourable Draunidalo to speak on her motion.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


This Head contains the Unit which is part of the Administration of the Land Use Decree 2010 and the so-called Land Bank.

Madam Chair, the reason why I move this motion to take funds away from this Head is because after the establishment of the so-called Land Bank were granted, landowners consent is required and the personnel from this Unit (I assume from this Unit) would go out and get their consent.
However, now we have members of various clans who have complained that they were not fully explained of how exactly the Land Use Decree works and they have nothing to do with their land, possibly for up to 99 years, it is too long for these landowners.
They make these sorts of complaints and one of the big issues about this Land Use Decree, Madam Chair, is the fact that while they was no elected Government in place, the Decree was promulgated and it says in Section 9: “The Decree has effect not withstanding any provision of the Native Land Trust Act Cap 134, Agricultural Landlord and Tenant Act, Cap 270, ALTO 1966 and any other law and accordingly to the extent that there is any inconsistency between this Decree and Native Land Trust Act (and all of those other laws that I have read out), this Decree prevails.
Any direction given (this is 9(2)) by the Land Use Unit under this Decree to any agency of Government or any other institution to lease information pertaining to land shall release that such information.” Madam Chair, why this is of concern is because while there was no elected Government in place and while the revolutionary forces came to subvert the 1997 Constitution which had those entrenched provisions for legislation such as Native Land Trust Act, requiring the special majorities in both Houses to give their consent to any legislation that would affect those protected ones.
This Decree came into force and why it is of concern to some indigenous landowners, obviously not all because Madam Chair, the Native Land Trust Act (and I think my learned friend that sits in the Opposition bench dealt with this thing in his working life more than I have) is now being used to deal with what is trust land and taking away the administration of that land from the trustee body, which is the iTaukei Land Trust Board, formerly the NLTB and putting it into this so-called Land Bank, this Land Use Unit.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 729 Why is it that a worry, Madam Chair?

A trustee beneficiary relationship at law is a very special one.

Trustees must always act in the interest of beneficiaries and when trustees do not, beneficiaries always have the right to go to court and question certain things, various Acts, any act of the trustee and that has always happened, Madam Chair.

Landowners have always taken the NLTB to court.


My learned friend who has worked in NLTB would have defended some of those and when he came out of NLTB would have acted for landowners.

I also would have acted for landowners to question various acts of the NLTB, which is now iTLTB and that protection Madam Chair is taken away.

I see in Section 11 of the Decree best interests of the native landowners.
All leases issued or renewed under this Decree shall take into consideration at all times the best interests of landowners and the overall wellbeing of the economy, and some could argue, “well that is just a substitute for the trustee beneficiary relationship which used to exist under NLTB.” Madam Chair, why are we making a fuss is Part 7 – Miscellaneous where certain decisions are not to be challenged.
Under Section 15 of the Decree, no court, tribunal, commission or and any other adjudicating body shall have the jurisdiction to accept, hear, determine, or in any other way entertain any proceeding, challenge or dispute by any person or body which sits or purports to challenge or question – a) b) the validity and legality or proprietary of this Decree; and any decision of any Minister; HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBER.- (Inaudible) HON.

ROKO T.T.S.


DRAUNIDALO.- Yes, we are trying to take away the allocation so that they do not do this work.

c) any decision of any Minister of any State official body made under this Decree the terms and conditions of lease issued by the Director of Lands under this Decree or the legality of the cancellation of any leases, licences or other instruments and it goes on, Madam Chair.
So, it effectively takes out or cancels out to a large extent what is at Section 11 which is in the best interest of native landowners.

Again, Madam Chair, that is taking away that special relationship, the trust beneficiary relationship which native landowners have relied on for many years, and probably need to for a few more years because of the stages of development that we were all at, and that has been taken away.
That is the concern now that some landowners say that they have not been fully explained various terms when they signed up to the Land Bank and now they do not realise that they have lost their land for so many years, and do not have that protection of going to court to question various things.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 730 For those reasons, Madam Chair, I bring this motion to reduce the funding of this Unit so that it does not carry out the work under this Land Use Decree.
Thank you, MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- The floor is open for debate on this motion.

Does anyone want to speak?

Honourable Minister.

HON.

M.R.

VUNIWAQA.- Madam Chair, as acknowledged by the Honourable Member, there are actually a lot of those landowners who have deposited their land in the Land Bank, who have benefitted from this initiative.
There are certain safety nets within the Decree itself, for example, the landowners they can go and get their land back if it has not been leased within a certain time period.

If we read the Budget, the Supplement that is there, there is a few success stories about landowners who have deposited their land into the Land Bank.

This has included the commercialisation of their land, the subdivision of their land which may have not been attainable, if they had not done so.
For tourism purposes also, there is a five star resort now in Kadavu and that is the Land Bank land.

So I think it is unfair on those who have actually benefited and there are still some who are knocking on our door, wanting to deposit their land in the Land Bank, and there is a consultation programme involved.

We do advise them about all this and they are free to get their independent legal advisors before they deposit their land.

So, to actually propose to scrap the entire programme is a bit shallow.
There are benefits of this that we should not keep away from those landowners who actually benefit from this.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you and open for any comments, if any.

Honourable Nawaikula.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, I wish to support the motion.

The first reason is that it is a duplication.


We all know that the Native Land Trust Board was established for one primary purpose, to foster development, to demarcate what land is required for subsistence living and the rest is for it to be available to the public on equal terms, and it was there.

So there is no further need to establish a Land Bank when NLTB is there.

It is an insult to the thinking of the iTLTB that another whatever is established to do their function.

The second reason is benefit.


The Act is established to benefit the landowners, but there has been no benefit at all.

Take for example, Wailevu.

We inspected Wailevu and we know millions and millions of dollars has passed through them and in going there, you would expect that their standard of living would have improved, but you probably be looking at a village that is similar to a hotel but no, tinned and roof buildings that were there from the start are still there.
Someone else has taken all this money and on the day they came, the high chief with his family were sitting down over a plate of rourou and tavioka.

The same thing that they have been having all this time and we asked them, “What have you received?

How much money have you received” and they said, “Nothing”.

They pointed to a cheque - $57,000.

We asked, “Did you receive that cheque?” They answered “No”.

“Where did it go to?” They answered “Someone, someone”.
“Do you know the trustees?” They answered “No”, so where is the benefit, and then you travel up to the area where they were excavating, it is like walking on the moon, so absolutely no benefit.

You are duplicating the work that NLTB is supposed to do and it is not bringing them any benefit.

They are crying, the landowners are crying.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 731 The third reason that I wish to point out is the illegality.
We must come to our sense that the passing of this law is illegal.

We did not get the prior and informed consent of the people that matter or to consult them - the native owners.

It is their land, it is just like this building.

If you want to change this building, you will come and ask the owner, “Please, can we do this?” You have to consult them.

It was never done and you have to live with that illegality.

We will live with that conscience in our mind.


We do not have to go to ILO to come and tell us, “You can do it by yourselves”, so I support the motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, just to correct a few legal points.

Honourable Nawaikula worked for iTLTB, he does know when it was NLTB, that the level of 60 per cent requirement under the Land Bank and under the Land Use Decree is not enforced by the iTLTB.
It is an informal arrangement and in a number of cases, leases have been issued by iTLTB as supposed trustees without the consent of the landowners.

That has happened on a number of occasions.

Honourable Bulitavu would tell you that, so this whole argument … (Chorus of Interjections) HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Let me finish, , let me finish.

…about iTLTB was the only trustee that could be trusted is actually not true at all.

A number of leases have been issued without the landowners’ consent.

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- We don’t need it, we don’t need the consent.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Exactly, but the point is, under the Land Use Decree, you still need the consent of the landowners, it is mandatory.

You still need 60 per cent because we want them to be consenting to it.

Now, you are defending a particular position that you are ridiculing on the other hand.

That is the issue.

This is very hypocritical.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- It is their land.

HON.


A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Exactly, so you need their consent.

As a trustee, you cannot decide when not to lease it or lease it, you need the consent of the landowners.

The Land Use Decree says that you must get their consent.
In some instances, Madam Chair, where the landowners in fact want to lease and iTLTB has refused to lease, in some instances where landowners do not want to lease, iTLTB has leased, so there is a point of difference and to make this notion about them being this great trustee relationship, in fact, it is not necessarily true.

The other point, Madam Chair, is that it is completely false.
If you have a particular issue regarding a particular lease through the Land Use, there are many other replete examples of where landowners have actually benefitted.

The example that the Honourable Minister gave about the Yaukuve Island Resort.

We can tell you exactly what happened.

iTLTB refused to give a lease to the incoming investor because there were some arrears.
The landowners wanted the Resort to go ahead but iTLTB said “No” and then over 60 per cent of the landowners said, “We want to go through the Land Use Decree”.

Today, you have got a multi-million dollar Resort being built, 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 732 where the landowners are being actually employed and they will benefit from lease payments, so this is false.

It is false.

The landowners are given a choice.

You do not want landowners to have a choice?

HON.


N. NAWAIKULA.- If you consult them.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- They are consulted every time they want to lease their land.

They are being consulted.

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Before you pass the law.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- They are being consulted.

The reality is that the landowners have a choice.

If they want to stay with iTLTB, they can.

If they want to go to the Land Use Decree and over 60 per cent of them agree, they can do it, simple as that.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Anyone else who would like to speak on that motion?

HON.

J. DULAKIVERATA.- Madam Chair, I would like to support that motion based on the fact that that has already been explained that it is a duplication.

I think that land should go back there.

It is a misuse of Government’s fund and on top of that, the Ministry of Lands cannot even fulfil their role to administer the State land and yet they were given additional responsibility.
Now, they are trying to survey the land, their leases, et cetera, they cannot collect their rental or the leases have not been renewed.

These are the core functions.

You give them another responsibility, we wait, maybe in a few years’ time, you will see that it will have the same problem.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- The iTLTB at the moment, as you know, used to take out 25 per cent as administrative costs from the lease moneys.

At the moment, it is 10 per cent.


The Land Use Decree does not give them the 100 per cent.

The 100 per cent of the lease money goes to the landowners.

They do not take out any poundage.

HON.

RATU I.D.
HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- In regards to the last statement delivered by the Honourable and learned Attorney-General, the iTLTB need that percentage, the poundages to actually run the Ministry but the problem here (hold on, hold on) for you people, you are using taxpayers’ money, why can you not do that and facilitate that with the iTLTB?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- You are using taxpayers money to help the iTaukei landowners.

HON.

RATU I.D.
HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Exactly, why did you not do that with iTLTB and you create this to yourself.

(Chorus of Interjections) You are stealing, that is supposed to be given to iTLTB.

Now, because of your creation, you are trying to sell to the people that they have given 100 per cent return.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- You reduce the poundage by 10 per cent.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 733 HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Poundages had been decreasing through the years, remember that.
I worked with the Fijian Affairs.

I know more than what you are saying but what we are saying is that, you can facilitate that, give 100 per cent to iTLTB, so now 25 per cent, you are trying to sell that?

That is wrong.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, we have enough information to the debate and to vote on this.

We will now just give the Honourable Draunidalo her Right of reply before we put this to the vote.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.
HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you, Madam Chair, I thank those Honourable Ministers for that information as I have already acknowledged the consent, the option.
The landowner’s consent is obtained and some are complaining that their consent was obtained without full disclosure and I have also been told that one of the concerns about this Land Use Decree and Land Use Unit mechanism is that there has been no transparency as to how much land has been taken into the Land Bank and which clans and landowning units.

The Honourable Minister says it is there….

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- In the Supplement.

Read the Supplement.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please continue.

HON.


ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Madam Chair, the most concerning part, which I had said in my opening speech on this to open the debate is the issue of landowners not being able to have the option of going to court, to question the directives given under the Decree.
If that is given, then it will be on equal footing really, almost with the iTLTB, that would be a real choice and would make this Programme much more attractive, then the landowners would have a real choice but now, the choice is between a trustee body (that you can take to court to question their action should you not agree with anything that they do), or a body that, yes, you go into by consent but what if later on, you find you do not agree with some of their decisions you cannot go to court and question it.
That is a big negative, Madam Chair, and it differentiates the Land Use Unit starkly from iTLTB.

If that choice was there and that part of the Decree was taken away, it would make it far more attractive but as it stands, that is why I move the motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Tupou Draunidalo.

The question is, that Head 33 be decreased by $1,535,216 in respect of Activity 5 - Land Use Unit.
Does there anyone oppose the motion?

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 734 Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 28 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much, we will now vote on Head 33.
The question is, that the amount of Head 33 Ministry of Lands and Mineral Resources be approved, does any member oppose the motion?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 28 16 4 Head 33 agreed to MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much, we will move now to the next Head, and I give the floor to the Deputy Secretary General.
Head 34 – Ministry of Industry, Trade and Tourism Head 34 – Ministry of Industry, Trade and Tourism is now open for debate.

We will look at Programme 1 – Policy and Administration, Activity 1 – Corporate Services, the floor is open.

HON.

M.D.
HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Thank you, Madam Chairperson, the shadow Minister for Industry and Trade, my contribution will be a bit more constructive regards to the figures, I also thank the Honourable Minister for his hard work throughout the years and his Permanent Secretary sitting there, most efficient Minister so far, just a question a general question before we start.

This year, the whole Ministry’s allocation was $58.9million, did the Ministry fully realise its allocation?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Please do not question past performance, just speak on the Budget that is before us.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam, you have to understand, we are building up, it is a very constructive exercise, because the next question will be, is the Minister happy about the $9.4million increase in this year’s Budget?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 735 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- That question is irrelevant, I am sure he is happy that is why he has put it in the Budget.
Please another question.

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Can the Minister explain the scope or details of the allocation for Programme 2, Activity 1 in regards to SEG 6 of $639,000 for the National Centre for Small and Medium Enterprises?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You really think this allocation should be increased, reduced?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.-Then I will make a decision whether to increase or decrease.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- It should be in the Estimate.

Honourable Minister HON.

F.S.


KOYA.- The actual explanation for further particular thing is on page 254, if you really like to read that, that will give you a better understanding.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I thought so, any other comments HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Thank you, Madam Chairperson, I was just carefully looking at the name of the Ministry - Ministry of Industry, Trade and Tourism and I see that the Ministry is also responsible for positioning Fiji Airways in an internationally competitive economy.
Then I was looking at all the allocations, I was wondering whether why we did not have a department of industry, specifically to look at the efficiency and competiveness of various industries in Fiji.

But I see that under Programme 2, Activity 1 under SEG 7, there is an allocation for the Trade Policy Framework, and Madam Chairperson, Trade Policy Framework as the Honourable Minister would know, has been a major undertaking for any country.
In fact, it sets out both the median term, long term trade policy gender, within trade policy framework the issue of competitiveness, efficiency is paramount and so, I will move a motion.
But before that, let me just say that as a country, we continue to see that news in terms of our ranking the most recent world bank ranking on the ease of doing business, we have actually gone down from 82 to 88 and on the ease of starting a business, we have actually again gone down from 160 to 167 so, really we are moving backwards.

Madam Chair, let me move a motion.


Pursuant to Standing Order 102, I move without notice that Head 34, SEG 7 - Trade Policy Framework be increased to $1 million, so that within that Trade Policy Framework, we could look at all these bottlenecks that might reverse the trend that we are facing now.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Now that you have moved the motion, you will have time to speak on the motion, please fill in the form.

Any other comments?

Honourable Aseri Radrodro.


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 736 HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, Programme 1, Activity 1, just a clarification on the Honourable Minister on SEG 5 – Expenses of Boards and Committee; $40,000.

Can you just clarify and elaborate what this expense is for?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you Honourable Minister HON.

F.S.
F.S.

KOYA.- Thank you, Honourable Member for the question, this is actually a provision used to pay for departmental committees and board meetings and expenses for the Ministry, that is all.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments?

Programme 2, Activity 1?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Programme 2 – SEG 10 on Micro and Small Business Grant.

Last year, it was $1 million, and this year it has gone up by $1.2 million, a total of $2.2 million.
Perhaps, due to the increase in demand by the people who are trying to apply for this Small Business Grant, whether this is enough or not?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- The initial amount was $1 million, and we will be distributing roughly about 7,000-odd applicants.

So, as I mentioned earlier on this week, we got the Indian Government stepping in with respect to $4.7 million-odd, so we will be covering about 7,700 applicants.
It may end up flowing on to next year but the allocation given to us for another $2 million is fine for the time being.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any more comments.

On Programme 3, Activity 1 - Trade Measurement, Trade Standards, Honourable Vadei.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, on Head 34, Programme 3, Activity 1, SEG 1 – Personnel Emoluments.

From 2015, there was a $610.7 and year 2016 is $610,700.
My question is whether the posts were filled throughout by the various officers or whether they have recruited the officers for this 2015 to 216 Budget.

What I fail to understand that some of the officers have retired, have not been filled but the service delivery is a concern by the Cakaudrove Provincial Council regarding the instruction services.

These are some of the things that needs to be reflected on the Personnel Emoluments.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.


Honourable Minister.

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.

- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I do not think this is got to do with the Budget Estimates the issues that you raised, I think they have been covered.

The allocation given to us is sufficient.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comments on Programme 4, Activity 1; Activity 2?

Honourable Nawaikula.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 737 HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Programme 4, Activity 1, this refers to the cooperatives.
Honourable Minister, there has been some song and dance that you will put this back together and we were very happy but it does not reflect on the Budget and $323,698 is totally not enough.

If he does not agree with me, perhaps he can explain why he has not convinced the Minister of Finance to increase that - putting together the cooperative society.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Which SEG are you referring to?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- SEG 7 HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- Are you asking a general question:?


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- It is National Cooperative Federation, that allocation?

HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- The National Co-operative Federation, what are these?

They look like some navy, and some celebration day.

Could the Minister explain this?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- National Cooperative Federation - $29,925.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- Honourable Member, I will explain to you.


Section 47 of the Co- operatives Act, an apex body or the National Cooperative Federation is mandated, yet to be established and this is what it is for and it will be, and we are in the process of actually looking at the Cooperatives Act also.

We have only been here for 12 months, there is a lot of work to be done.

You will see some more legislation.

HON.

NIKO NAWAIKULA.- Please do it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you have any more comments?


On Programme 4, Activity 2 – Training?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Activity 3 – Extension?

Honourable Bulitavu.

HON.

M.D BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, this is in regards to Programme 4, Activity 2 on Training.

This is very important because the trainers will be going to train those who are to be entrepreneurs, to be business people.

The allocation there is about $700 for allowance.


What sort of training, what programme have been used by the Ministry here by the Department and how frequent do they go?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Which one you are referring to?

HON.

M.D BULITAVU.- 2-4-1, SEG 5.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 738 HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- You are actually referring to Programme 4, Activity 2, SEG 5; is that correct?

The Training Expense is $6,000.


That particular training expense is the provision for basically purchasing training materials for the actual training centre.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Bulitavu, is your question answered?

HON.

M.D BULITAVU.- It is transported to the Training Centres.

The corporative officers are training those individuals but whether that is sufficient enough for the time being?

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- It is.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other comment?.


Programme 4, Activity 3 – Extension.

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM SEPAKER..- Programme 5, Activity 1 – Department of Tourism, General Administration.

Honourable Gavoka.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- 34-5-1, SEG 7, a number of research has been carried out in there, can the Honourable Minister give us an update on what kind of research are conducted?

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- Please be specific which one you are talking about.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Tourism Research.

.


HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- SEG 7 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you want to know what this $50,000 allocation is for?

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Yes, Madam Chair, the $50,000 is there in 2015 and 2016 all allocated for Tourism Research.

Can the Minister explain a research undertaken this year and what would be entail 2016?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

F.S.
HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- I will just explain it so you understand it because I have done this on numerous occasions in the House.

This particular Tourism Research, it will contribute toward the IVS Report.

It is basically survey, analysis design and printing of the report.

The International Visitors Survey Report was one of the main ones, it provides a quantitative and quality assessment of our visitors and that is what it is basically for.
Its benefit is tourism research obviously, and it actually requires a budget of $50,000 it contributes towards the cost of the survey, the form and analysis, the designing and printing of the report and fax and information and booklets.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 739 HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

You have shown this hotel data collection system for two years.

What is going to happen now, you have been telling it for two years?

HON.

F.S.
HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- Thank you, Honourable Member for that question and it’s a pertinent question actually.

This hotel data collection system if I can relay you back to what has been mentioned earlier about the leakage, et cetera within the industry.

I only came on board a year ago, I am not sure about what happened last year but we are in the process of establishing that.

There is a lot work that needs to go into it, it involves FIRCA and some other hoteliers themselves.
It is something that needs to be done properly so we can actually get the right amount of money that Fiji deserves to get from the Tourism Industry.

So, it is a process that needs to be followed properly and it is obviously, IT issues that we have to deal with and is being done and that is sufficient enough budget for it.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Completion date, 2016?

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- We will see.

HON.

V.R.


GAVOKA.- Okay, just another one, Madam Chair, could we have an ROI on the golf at Natadola, it is creating a lot of dialogue in the community.

I think it is best we show an ROI on the benefits to the country because if you go, according to the information the Honourable Minister gave, he managed to acquire or secure 700 room nights, out of this.

Is that right?

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- Thank you Honourable Gavoka.


If you need an explanation regarding the golf, you get it from Head 50.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- I understand but if 700 room nights, if he uses $,1400 per room, that is only about $800,000 and it does not go towards liquidating what has been outlined.

I know it is only part of it but I think an ROI would be really good.

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- Let us put these things to bed tonight.

I think, Honourable Member, you will realise marketing costs a lot of money.
The kind of marketing that golf actually gave us is absolutely phenomenal, you will never be able to buy that much market for that amount of money.

So that was the main thing but in an event, it is under Head 50.

Insofar as the budget is concerned, you can question under Head 50.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any more comments?

Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.

A. M. RADRODRO.- Yes, Madam Chair, just a clarification to the Honourable Minister regarding Tourism Fiji Marketing Grant of $30 million.
Has the Ministry consider allocating some of these grant to the Fiji Rugby Union coffers to assist in its marketing campaign?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Minister.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 740 HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- Thank you, Honourable Member for that question.
No, but we do assist any sporting event that actually does happen in Fiji, with respect to whether it is golf, rugby, netball, we do assist whenever we can but as far as the budget is concerned, there is nothing in there that is part of the rugby.

HON.

A. M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, I would like to make a motion here.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Fill in the form HON.


A. M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, pursuant to Standing Order 102, I move without notice that Head 10, be increased by $5 million to cater for the marketing campaign for the Fiji Rugby Union.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, fill in the form.

So while waiting, is there any further comments?

Honourable Gavoka.

HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- FRU, Madam Chair, I would support that motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You will speak on the motion when we… HON.

V.R.

GAVOKA.- Okay.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- That brings us to the end of this, so we will now go into the motions.

In the first motion, Parliament will vote on an amendment in the name of Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

The question is, that Head 34-2-1, be increased by $900,000 in respect of SEG 7 - Trade Policy Framework.

Could I ask Dr. Prasad to speak on his motion?

HON.

DR. B.C.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Thank you Madam Chair, as I said earlier, I think it is very important for the Ministry first of all to look at setting up a separate department of industry because we do not have that at the moment.
One that can specifically look at what is happening in different industries because at the end of the day, Madam Chair, as I said before, we are experiencing a deterioration in our ranking, the World Bank ease of doing business as I said earlier, we have gone down from 82 to 88 on ease of starting a business, we have gone down from 160 to 167.
I think it is absolutely important and I thank the Honourable Minister for getting the Trade Policy Framework approved and I think it is a very significant piece of document which should be operationalised in a way that we are able to increase efficiency, increase our competiveness and increase our productivity.
In fact some time back, Madam Chair, I suggested to the Government that they actually need to think about setting up a productivity commission like they have a Commerce Commission because unless we improve our productivity, unless we understand what is holding back our productivity, our competitiveness regionally.

We would not be able to achieve what is been envisaged within the Trade Policy Framework.
Therefore, looking at the allocations, I think the best place where right now the Ministry can advance that agenda and coordinate these activities to ensure that inefficiency are 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 741 removed and that we improve our environment for doing business, attracting investment and so forth and the allocation for the Trade Policy Framework really is a very small amount.
To begin with, I am suggesting that we increase it to a million dollar and I hope that Government will take that on board.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, does anyone want to speak on this motion.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- With the additional funding over $100,000 which is been given to the Ministry is requested since the National Trade Development Council and I have mentioned this in the House before.
It is part and parcel of the Trade Policy Framework and that will be established to provide the directions and the oversight towards the implementation of the policy with all the stakeholders.

So, that should be enough and sufficient, we do not necessarily need to have another department for it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, any other Member that would like to speak on the motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- No, now that you have had a response, would you like to speak in reply?

HON.
HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I know the Minister cannot change anything now but I do hope that after this motion is defeated, which will be, that the Honourable Minister will continue to think about creating a separate department of industry, think about setting up a productivity commission because that is the best way in which I think the Government can operationalise the Trade Policy Framework.
Within that framework, achieve efficiency, the productivity and the competitiveness for different industries and it is a very critical thing, Madam Chair, because what we are seeing right now is a deterioration in our business environment, our investment environment and that is very, very critical.

So I will leave it there.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.
The question is, that Head 34-2-1, be increased by $900,000 in respect of SEG 7 - Trade Policy Framework.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Because there is opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 742 Vote cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 26 6 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will now move on to the next motion.
Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

The question is, that Head 34-5-1, be increased by $5 million in respect of SEG 10 - Tourism Fiji Marketing Grant.

I will ask the Honourable Radrodro to speak on the motion.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


I think the basis of the motion was to utilize the existing facilities, the usual mechanism that is available locally which is through the Fiji Rugby Sevens team and this allocation on the Tourism Fiji Marketing Grant, I think there is no other vehicle that is available that could best utilize this allocation to market Fiji, and we know that the Fiji Sevens Team has been participating in the IRB World Sevens Series and annually they visited about nine countries.
Everyone, probably in this room and worldwide loves the Fiji Team when they play.

We need to capitalise on that, and we need to build on that winning momentum that has currently been established by the Sevens Team.

That is a good marketing mechanism that can be used by the Tourism Marketing team and in any one year, there are nine countries that are being visited, rather than trying to concentrate and isolate the marketing of Fiji to certain areas with this certain amount of allocation.
As we note, Madam Chair, this year the allocation was $23,500, that is why I had requested that an additional $5 million be given to the Fiji 7s Team next year so that they can continue to market Fiji during their trips to the IRB World 7s Series.

The countries that they play on a regular basis keeps changing after a certain period of time, so that is readily available marketing tool that can be utilised.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

It is open to debate now.


Any input from any other Member on this motion?

HON V.R.

GAVOKA.- I need to support this motion, Madam Chair.

I agree totally with my colleague Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

Rugby is very much natural to Fiji, Madam Chair, and we are renowned in the world now with our 7s and it is a given that with all the countries we visit, the HSBC circuit, Fiji is a dominant side and that is a given.
Additionally, Madam Chair, rugby broadly even our 15s, the World Cup has placed Fiji at another level and there is every hope that at the Olympics in Rio we will do very well.

And as you know, Madam Chair, a lot of star players in the world are now moving across to 7s to enable them to play for their country for the Olympics just once – some big names in New Zealand and Australia.
But for 15s also, Madam Chair, we saw what our boys did at the World 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 743 Cup, very close to getting England, Australia and Wales and I just want to compare Fiji with Argentina.

Argentina some years ago, we were almost equal with them but the difference with Argentina is that they had a lot of overseas competition with the tier one nations.

That is why they are now number three or four in the world.
If Fiji had played regularly with the big boys we would have done very well at the World Cup in London.

Madam Chair, rugby is like this today, it is controlled by the broadcasters.
The easiest way of playing with the big boys, Madam Chair, is when they come down South, where England, Scotland, Wales or Ireland tour the South Pacific (Australia and New Zealand), we can get them to come and play here but we have tried so many times, it is the broadcaster who decides that it is not on because they control the economy or the visits.
We tried to bring Wales once when they were touring New Zealand and that would have cost FRU $250,000 to have Wales come and play here because of the broadcasters hold on rugby.

But if we were to help fund that, we would give our boys the kind of exposure they need and the television coverage to their home countries when they are playing here.

But most importantly is the way we grow our rugby in both the 7s and 15s.
So Madam Chair, you have seen rugby today, one of the tourism products, the Marriott Hotel, just about every referee in the international circuit wears a Marriott shirt.

Shangri-la is beginning to come around to that.

A lot of tourism products are now beginning to embrace rugby as a vehicle for their promotion.

I would very seriously consider it.


I know we differ on the golf, but I think when all is said and done, there is much more mileage in piggybacking on our rugby than anything else that we have going for us today.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister for Tourism.

HON.

F.S.

KOYA.- Thank you, Madam Chair, it is actually more sustainable to assist Fijian Rugby and this has actually been done currently through the Ministry with the Economic Unit.
It is more sustainable if it is with the Fijian made programme that we have.

I can assure the rest of the House and the general public that that is something that has been looked at already.

It is a great platform for Fijian made also to carry the Fiji brand offshore.

So it is something that has been looked at the moment, but insofar as Tourism Fiji’s budget, that marketing budget, no.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other Honourable Member that wants to speak?


There being no other Member, I will now give the floor to the Honourable Radrodro to speak in reply.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Thank you Madam Chair.

I note the Honourable Minister’s response to the motion and I think the request is simply to enlighten the fact that with rugby in Fiji, you do not have to go to a technical college or school to learn rugby.
We are born naturally with it, so we just need to capitalise on that because they can become a natural marketing tool that can be utilised by Tourism Fiji.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 744 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Parliament will now vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Aseri Radrodro and the question is that Head 34-5-1 be increased by $5 million in respect of SEG 10 – Tourism Fiji Marketing Grant.

Does anyone oppose?

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Yes.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 27 5 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- That brings to an end the motions with regards to the Ministry of Industry, Trade and Tourism.

The Parliament will now vote on Head No.

34.

The question is that the amount for Head No.

34 - Ministry of Industry, Trade and Tourism be approved.
Does any Member oppose the motion?

There being opposition Parliament will vote on this motion.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 27 15 6 Head 34 agreed to.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.

– Thank you.

Honourable Members, we will move on.

Are you all right?

HON.

MEMBERS.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Shall we move complete what has been allocated for today.

We just have three more.

Head No.

35 – Ministry of Sugar 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 745 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head No.
35 - Ministry of Sugar is up for debate.

Does anyone have any input to Programme 1 – Sugar Development, Activity 1 - Sugar Unit?

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I know that time is catching on, I will try and make it simple.

Pursuant to Standing Order 100(2), I move that Head 35-1-1-10 under Sugar Development Programme be increased to $10 million, and I will speak on the motion later.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone want to speak on that, or on any other Activity?

HON.
HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Then, we will just fill the form on this.

Thank you.

There is only one motion before us.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad.

The question is, that Head 35-1-1 be increased by $5 million in respect of SEG 10 - Sugar Development Programme.

Can I ask Honourable Dr. Prasad to speak on his motion?

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


I moved this motion because I do not think the Government should just pay lip service to the industry.

We all know the state of the industry, we all have debated on the level of production, the level of sugar output, the impending price decline in 2017, we all know this.

But I find it very difficult to understand why Government would just allocate $5 million for sugar development.
We have talked about various activities, core generation is a big thing that Fiji Sugar Corporation has been talking about.

But, Madam Chair, we have said this before that unless you have farmers planting sugar cane and producing sugar cane, you will not have core generation, you will not have enough sugar.
I think we also need to understand that the cost of production, whether it is from preparing land from a fallow land or you have land which has already been developed to some extent and if you look at the cost, if you talk to any farmer and if you developing a fallow land, you are probably looking at about $720 per acre, before you can get the cane planted.

I think it is important that we provide this allocation so that next year and drought is already having an impact.
So we might have to double the effort that we might have had this year or in 2014.

That is why I think this allocation is very important.

Let me just also raise some questions and I think the Honourable Acting Prime Minister and Honourable Minister of Finance may want to respond to this.

The allocation is set to have increased to about $12 million, there is a $600,000 allocation for new levy.

We also see that there is $9.7 million allocation in subsidy to the South Pacific Fertilizer Company.
Last year, I think it was in Head 50, it has been moved to Head 35.

So actually, if you look at the allocation that was there in Head 50 last year, moved to Head 35 then you cannot say that there is an increase of $12 million.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 746 HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBER.- Why!

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Because it was already there last year, from a different Head.

So in reality, we are only looking at an allocation of $600,000 Madam Chair.
I think it is important that this increased allocation for cane development be considered seriously.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does any other Member want to speak on this motion?

Honourable Ratu Isoa Tikoca.

HON.

RATU I.D.

TIKOCA.- Thank you Madam Chair.

In support of this motion, I also focussed on the drought in the Western Division.

There is no irrigation allocated to actually assist the drought that will be challenging the sugar industry every year.
There is no programme for irrigation and actually mechanisation again, that is what we needed.

You got the CBUL trying to get the land for sugar but you are not providing mechanisation assistance to actually help build sugar industry, so that the production can actually be much better than what the rate of production that we are having today.

.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other Member would like to speak on the motion?

Honourable Minister for Finance.

HON.


A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, just a clarification in fact, it is not just $600,000 increase, you need to take out the $9 million there is still about $3 million dollars more that has been allocated.

Madam Chair, I just like to point out about the fact that the mention has been made about the $5 million that is given for sugar development.

Sugar development is very important, we do not need to assist the farmers.
In fact, of the $5 million that was allocated this year, already $3.9 million has been utilised to-date and we expect some more to be utilised at the end of the year.

And the way that works, Madam Chair, is that we actually assist farmers directly with the ploughers and fallow land, we give them necessary agro inputs.

These are farmers which have been identified who can actually have the capacity to actually be able to take on these additional supplement that has been given to them.
Of course, we all agree, the farmers need to be given assistance, we need to look at the capacity of it, so $5 million will continue.

Of course, as time changes and Honourable Tikoca has identified a very important point about irrigation, that, of course is a concern not just for sugarcane farming but all agricultural outputs.

That is something obviously that we are looking on a holistic basis.
The other point, Madam Chair that I would like to highlight is the direct assistance into our budget by the Europeans.

If you look at SEG 7, Sustainable Rural Livelihood, they have given us $2.3 million, Madam Chair, and this essentially is to look at various other support systems to farmers because it is not just about giving fertilizers, but it is also about things like mechanisation of harvesting.

It also will contribute towards the cane access roads.
There is a 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 747 number of other areas that we are specifically going to identify working with the Europeans that will affect in fact assist the cane farmers more directly and in a lot more tangible manner.

To draw a point of distinction between the direct budget support of $2.3 million by the Europeans, we also see aid-in-kind which is a social mitigation programme or AMSP, which the Europeans have given $33 million over a period of time.
Madam Chair, what the Europeans have done which we do not necessarily have any control over, they actually assist various NGOs and various other entities directly, so by way of information, for example, this year they identified the International Trade Centre (ITC) in terms of livelihood programme, livestock programme.

SPC, they gave them money of about $9.2 million, SRIF also got some money in terms of output for cane variety research and they was also contract grant to SRIF.
Next year, the European Union have identified various other NGOs such as Rama Krishna Mission of Fiji, which is the promotion of income generating activities, Friends of Fiji, SPC again, DFAT for the delivery of vocational training for a lot of the farmers and again for SRIF.

Now these plans have been worked over, so I think there is a number of ways in which farmers can be helped.

The reality is that in the sugarcane industry now, our cane structures are obviously very different.
We are generally small farmer holdings, if we compare us to countries like Philippines and various other places, they have large scale farm holdings.

In Fiji, because of the whole Girmit set up, we have small 15-acre farms.

So, in fact a lot of these cane farms have become in a way, unsustainable because of the economies of scale and of course many people are in fact living the cane industry.
The children no longer want to be cutting cane or be on the cane farms, they are finding other forms of employment which they find a lot more attractive.

So these are some of the challenges and whether some of these farmers want to devolve into other farming areas, it is work in progress and we fully appreciate the contribution by the Opposition, but we would say at this stage that the $5 million is sufficient enough whilst this particular Industry is being rigged.

Thank you, Madam Chair.


MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

I will now invite Dr. Biman Prasad for his Right of reply.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the Honourable Acting Prime Minister for his response and also for explaining the Social Mitigation Programme.
I think that programme would help in terms of alternative livelihoods but I would still implore on the Government to understand that, and I agree with the Honourable Acting Prime Minister that the sugar industry, 65 per cent to 70 per cent of the farmers are very small farmers, the huge challenges for them to sustain their own farming activity and the incomes.
That is why, Madam Chair, it makes it more imperative for us to at least for the next two or three years, to provide this kind of support so that while we are restructuring or reforming the industry and we have lost a lot of time since 2007.
The point I want to make is, we need to put in something more than what we are putting now so that next year, we are able to plant more cane at the same time support the farmers in a way that their current income which is already low, they will have no space, there will be no room for them to use any of 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 748 their own income from the cane proceeds because the cane price is very low.
The cane payment this year was the lowest, there was a top up before Diwali, that is fine but what is happening, Madam Chair, is if we do not put in more money next year into cane development, into more cane planting and direct support to the farmers, we will be having great difficulty in 2016 and 2017 to produce sugarcane.
So that is why it is very important, and I think many of the farmers, Madam Chair, the opportunity cost of moving away from the farm for some of those smaller farmers is so high because they have nowhere to go.
So what they are doing is, they are actually farming because they want the lease, because they have the house there but they are doing other things and unless there is direct support for them to increase the acreage under sugarcane, they will remain as very, very small holder farmers linked to other alternatives and we will not increase cane production.

That is why it is very important for us to increase the allocation.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.


Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Dr. Biman Prasad and the question is that Head 35-1-1 be increased by $5 million in respect of SEG 10 - Sugar Development Programme.

Does anyone oppose the motion?

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Yes.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 16 26 6 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Members.

Parliament will now vote on Head No.


35.

The question is that the amount of Head 35 - Ministry of Sugar be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 27 16 5 Head 35 agreed to.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 749 Head No.

36 – Ministry of Public Enterprise MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Head No.

36 is before us, looking at Programme 1, Public Enterprise Reform Activity 1.
Do we have any comments on that?

HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, can I just seek a clarification from the Honourable Minister in regards to SEG 5 on the Charter Committee Fees, what does that mean?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Thank you, Honourable Bulitavu for the question.
As Shadow Minister for Public Enterprise you would know that under the Public Enterprise Act there is a Charter Committee that looks at reorganisation of State-owned enterprises, so that is what that Committee is for and that is the fees for it.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other comments on Activity 1?

Let us look at Programme 5, Activity 1 – Government Printing.

I give the floor to the Honourable Aseri Radrodro.

HON.
HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, just on SEGs 6 and 10 on Activity 1 - the Biosecurity Authority Grants, Capital Grants and Operating Grants.

Can the Honourable Minister just clarify why is it paid out from the Public Enterprise and not from the line Ministry?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- The line Ministry at the moment is Public Enterprise.
The reason being is because the entity is still undergoing reorganisation and there is a need for the Ministry to complete a reorganisation in order for BAF to be established as an independent and self-sufficient body that obviously deals with Biosecurity matters.

That is why it is coming through Public Enterprise at the moment.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

A.T. VADEI.- Madam Chair, SEG 6 regarding the Biosecurity, the eradication of iguana and termites (batikadi).
Is that factored in this Operating Grants?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, thank you , Honourable Member for the question.

If I could enlighten the Honourable Member, very quickly the Operating Grant actually is for operations.
One of the reasons why the increase has actually been put in place is because in Fiji basically when the former Quarantine Department and now Biosecurity, we lack veterinarians, pathologists and entomologists and all these ologists in Fiji that is required essentially to carry out all the assessment of goods coming in and goods going out.

So we need to obviously ensure that we have the right people.
The other point is also that there are certain goods that actually can come into Fiji but we have been restricting our consumers from accessing them because of the fact that we do not have the necessary expertise to actually check whether these products are good enough to come to Fiji.

In fact, they can be quite cheap products.


18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 750 A case in point, for example, various products can come from USA but we have to make sure that they do not come from mad cow disease areas and they have actually been certified properly.

The other reason why it has increased is that we are going to have additional Biosecurity Service in Nabouwalu, Kadavu, Buca Bay and Vanuabalavu.
Because as you know, for example, we have yachts coming through those areas and we need to ensure that whatever the yachts bring with them from Tonga or wherever they come from they are not detrimental to our bio-diversity.

We are also going to strengthen the scientific research.

The other point, Honourable Member, which I know you were concerned about was the iguana.

The iguana eradication programme in fact has already started.
You may have seen some photos in the papers and some of those iguana are quite scary, heaven forbid the day when if they turn up in the Western Division where all these tourists, because of those iguanas are as long as this table.

I know some people in Vanua Levu eat them but they could be quite scary.

I am happy to announce also, Madam Chair, that the global environment facility is now because of the work that BAF has carried out is going to set aside US$3.5 million which we expect BAF to get next year.
So they are going through the motions at the moment.

BAF has had to meet certain standards in order to be able to access those funds, but they are going to help, for example, in eradication of iguana.

They are some people obviously who thinks it is a chicken meet and they are actually hiding it away, but they are quite detrimental to the environment.

The termites also fall under the capital operations and as you know that you have seen the advertisement come up by Biosecurity.
They are handling that, including termites as you rightly identified.

It has now gone into some sugarcane areas.

So they are also dealing with that and it is a big issue.

Again, for example, Fiji has been named as a GAS country, GAS meaning Giant African Snails.
Although Fiji is not a GAS country at all, once Fiji identifieS a Giant African Snail that was transiting on a container from Solomon Islands or Vanuatu through Fiji, and when Fiji reported it to the Australian authorities because that is where the containers are going to, they listed us as a GAS country too, which we are not.

We do not have any Giant African Snail.

These are the kind of areas that they are dealing with.
The other reason why we also got an increase is, at the moment, as you will know that the fumigation, the high heat density that is required to, for example, get the clearance to meet the New Zealand standards for our vegetables is only based at Natures Way in Nadi.
So all the dalo exporters, et cetera, that may be from Tailevu and Naitasiri do not have any such facility in this area, so we want Bio Security to put those facilities in this part of Fiji, so it is less costly to the farmers to be able to meet those Bio Security Standards and the various protocols to set and agree to between Fiji, New Zealand and Australia so that makes it a lot more easier for them, so that is why you have that increase.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone else have any input?
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 751 HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Madam Chair, I just want to ask the Honourable Minister in regards to more details on SEG 7 regarding the monitoring of public enterprises which is targeted at $50,000 and whether that is sufficient.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Yes, at the moment, Honourable Member, it is sufficient.
Tomorrow, when we also discuss Head 50, you will see that we have parked a consultancy vote in there too, so when we have larger companies and we need to, for example, carry out valuations, et cetera, that is where that money comes from, so we have not parked in the Ministry, it needs to be specific expenditure.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, just a clarification on SEG 10, on the capital grant to Biosecurity Authority.

I note that there is an increase, more than twice the amount.
What is this increase relating to in these capital grants?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Honourable Minister.

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- Madam Chair, I have just highlighted the increase in there.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, it has been answered.

Any other input?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, there being no other motions proposed.

Thank you, very much for that.

We will now vote on Head No.

36 and the question is that the amount of Head No.


36 - Ministry of Public Enterprise be approved, does any Member oppose the motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this.

HON.

A.M. RADRODRO.- Madam Chair, just a clarification.

I just see this Programme 5, Activity 1 – Government Printing.

I note that the Supplement has stated that there was an expression of interest called on this Government Printing.
Can the Honourable Minister highlight to us what is the progress of this expression of interest, especially when the budget allocation continues to be provided for this Government Printing?

HON.

A. SAYED-KHAIYUM.- The negotiations are continuing.

We are actually waiting for the company to come up with the final proposal.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Now, we will vote on this Head No.

36 and the question is, that the amount of Head No.

36 – Ministry of Public Enterprise be approved.


Does any Member oppose the motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 752 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being some opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 28 16 4 Head 36 agreed to.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much, Honourable Members.

We will now move on to the last Head for tonight.

Head 37: Ministry of Local Government, Housing and Environment HON.

P.B.
P.B.

KUMAR.- I think there is an error and if we can correct that, instead of “Ba Botanical Garden”, it should be “Lautoka Botanical Garden”.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We have this Head open for debate.

Does anyone want to speak on this?

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, I am going to ask the Honourable Minister to answer this question first before I decide to move a motion.
The Minister would recall that in his maiden speech, one of his first priorities would be to hold Local Government elections then subsequently he promised that the election will be held after the review of the Local Government Act, but just going through the allocations, I do not see, Madam Chair, any allocation for the review of the Act and may I say to the Honourable Minister he knows that he was an elected Councillor for 16 years, out of which, 12 years he was a mayor and obviously he knows that a democratic council can work, and so I am asking him to give us an assurance that he has money allocated here for the review of the Act, and tell us whether he has got a timeline in which to do that review and how soon we are going to see democratically elected councillors in this country?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, I did say that this will be a priority but at the same time I did also say that there are a lot of priorities and on the allocation, yes, you will find under special administrators and that is where the funding for the review is also included.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, what the Honourable Minister is saying that the $500 allocation that will be enough for you to have the review.

HON.

P.B.
HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- This is a continuation.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 753 HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- The reason why I am not moving a motion if you answer this question well is, can you give us a timeline when the review will be done, when will it be completed because you cannot continue to say “we are going to do the review and we will finish in 2018”.

We need the election as soon as we can and so we need some time.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Member, we are spending time on an issue that is not included in the budget.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- It is not relevant, Madam Chair.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- I was going to move a motion to have a specific allocation.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- You may move a motion.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- Madam Chair, let me remind the Honourable Members on the other side, and especially Ministers, we cannot ride roughshod.
They talk about people’s Budget and the people of this country want to know when the Act will be reviewed, when the Election is going to be held.

If the Minister cannot answer that, then they should stop calling this Budget, a People’s Budget.

HON.

MEMBER.- That question you asked in January, talk about the Budget.

HON.

DR. B.C.

PRASAD.- If you do not have it in the Budget, if you do not know a Programme, if you do not have a plan, how can you do that?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Minister.

HON.


P.B.

KUMAR.- Madam Chair, before I respond to Honourable Prasad, I must reiterate that this is the People’s Budget.

(Chorus of interjections) However, as I have said so many times in this Parliament that they are aware of it.

It is an out- dated legislation, the Local Government Act, 1972.

Let me say this.

The review has started and I cannot say at this point in time when the review will finish and when the election will be held.
Let the review take place.

What is so hard and farce about it?

Let the review take place.

Thank you.

HON.

P. SINGH.- Madam Chair, if I can assist the Honourable Minister… HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- You do not have to assist me.

(Laughter) 18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 754 HON.

P. SINGH.- … with two questions.

Who is doing the review and what is the stage that we have progressed or has it been outsourced or is it being done within?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I will not allow this issue to be debated further because it is not in this Budget document that we have in front of us.

Please refer to this Budget and let us focus on the work before us.

I will now invite a member to speak on any of these Activity 1 or Activity 2 or Programme 1 if any?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Let us move on to Programme 2, Activity 1.

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Programme 3 – Environment, Activity 1 .

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I wish to put on notice that I wish to move a motion to increase Programme 2, Activity 1, SEG 10 by $4 million – big money.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, you will speak on it after.

Honourable Draunidalo, did you stand?

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- I was going to move a motion on programme 3 – am I ahead of everyone?

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Two motions under Programme 3.

Any more input to the debate?

Honourable Leader of the Opposition.


HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- On programme 3, Activity 1, SEG 8.

Three motions we have so far.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- We will move on to the first motion that is before us and Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Niko Nawaikula and the question is, that Head 37-2-1 been increased by $4 million in respect of SEG 10 Newtown, Nabouwalu.

I now give the floor to the Honourable Nawaikula to speak on his motion.

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- Madam Chair, the subject of the motion is an addition of $4 million and that is to be allocated for the establishment of and I am sure that if the Honourable Minister looks into his file, he will see there the feasibility studies conducted for Seaqaqa and Naqara in Taveuni and $2 million each were allocated for that and he will also confirm from his files that studies were conducted for these two areas for the need for growth or their establishment as towns.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 755 The need, the viability and the need especially.

I have been to Seaqaqa and I have also been to Naqara, and the sellers there complained that they need proper facilities from which they will sell from.
The people who operate higher cars are just lining up, so it has been there for a long time and in fact it had been budgeted, but for some reason they are lost, and that is basically the reason I am putting this motion, to bring them back because we have already looked at it, we have agreed to the need and it is there, and it should be back.
It should take priority over that ugly building that is standing across there – Albert Park and you see the allocation for that is $7 million, so I am thinking that maybe the sums that are supposed to be allocated for the establishment of Seaqaqa and Naqara are being that side.

That is the reason for my motion.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Does anyone want to speak on the motion?

Hon.

P. Kumar.

HON.

P.B.


KUMAR.- Madam Chair, just in short, it would be foolish for my Ministry to ask for $4 million when we have capacity to spend $2 million.

These are the same people who will come next year and say that we have not spent that money, so this allocation is purely for the upgrading of Nabouwalu Town.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Any other Member who would like to speak on this motion?

Since there are no other, the Honourable Nawaikula you can speak in reply after that.

HON.
HON.

N. NAWAIKULA.- I add nothing further than what I have said.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you very much.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Nawaikula and the question is, that Head 37-2-1 be increased by $4 million in respect of SEG 10, New Town Nabouwalu.

Does anyone oppose?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on this motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 16 27 5 Proposed amendment defeated.
18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 756 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Next one, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Roko Tupou Draunidalo.

The question is, that Head 37 be increased by $2 million in respect of 37-3-1, SEG 7 on the Environment Programme.

I will now give the floor to the Honourable Draunidalo to speak on the motion.

HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I will be brief.
I will be brief.

My moving this motion stands from the work bipartisan report that was given to the House, looking at various treaties.

The treaties were to do with marine-based pollution, but in the course of taking submissions, we received many submissions.
One very serious one, which stands from Waiqanake, and that is how the pollution of Suva Harbour and surrounds, which if Honourable Members were to take the time to go there and look at what damage is being done to our environment from land-based pollution, and that is people are just not caring and throwing all sorts of things into the water which damages the food that is supplied to the Capital, and the source of living for those people there.
These are very serious issues, and that is why I am moving this motion for this part of the Budget to be increased so that awareness and education is beefed up.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone want to speak further on the motion?

No?

Therefore, there will be no Right of reply.

The Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Roko Tupou Draunidalo.

The question is, that Head 37 be increased by $2 million in respect of Head 37-3-1, SEG 7 – Environment Programme.
Does anyone oppose the motion.

HON.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS.- Yes.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being opposition.

Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question put on proposed amendment.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 7 27 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you, Honourable Members.

We will move on the to the next.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Tupou Draunidalo.
The question is, that Head 37 be increased by $928,000 in respect of 37-3-1, SEG 5 on Awareness Education.

I now invite the Honourable Draunidalo to speak on her motion.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 757 HON.

ROKO T.T.S.

DRAUNIDALO.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think we went in reverse.

I was speaking on Awareness and Education previously, thinking that that would be called first.

But anyway, the two are related.


Awareness and Education, to make people aware not to do the things that pollute the environment which supplies food supply, and those people with their livelihood, apart from the fact that it is close to its environmental damage, which the Honourable Prime Minister has spoken a lot about recently.

The other part, the Environment Programme was going to look into more depth into those issues.
But, I am not going to say more, except that if we could support the environment in increasing the Budget under this SEG.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone want to speak on this motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Then there will be no right of reply.

We will go straight ahead, and Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of Honourable Roko Tupou Draunidalo.

The question is, that Head 37 be increased by $928,000 in respect of 37-3-1, SEG 5 – Awareness and Education.
Does anyone oppose the motion?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 17 27 4 Proposed amendment defeated.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Honourable Members, we have a last motion.

Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Leader of the Opposition and the question is, that Head 37-3-1 SEG 8 be increased by $299,018 in respect of Construction of Naboro Landfill.
I will give the floor to the Honourable Leader of the Opposition to speak on her motion.

HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- Thank you, Madam Chair.

The concern I raise is in terms of the Auditor-General’s Report.
Both in 2013 and 2014, on the Naboro Landfill, that is why I am bringing forward this amount in terms of what needs to be done in that particular stage of the Naboro Landfill, where the Ministry, instead of recruiting an Engineer to look at the whole works had an Environmental Officer who only had a Bachelor’s Degree in Environmental Studies.
My concern is the amount that is allocated there, and the amount that I propose here, that needs to really look at the whole design and construction of this Landfill, because if it is not properly addressed, then there will be environmental problems in the future.

That is what my concern is, Madam Chair.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 758 MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Does anyone else want to speak on the motion?

Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- Thank you, Madam Chair.


I thank the Honourable Leader of the Opposition for raising this concern in terms of the environment, but I do not see the reason why even a cent is to be increased in the allocation because we have already got the prices which will create the 220,000 cubic metres of air space.

That is what are asking for and that is what we have got, but if there is any variance, we will vire from within the Ministry so there is no need to add an extra fund.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

Any other input to the debate on this motion?

There being no other input and response, I will ask the Honourable Leader of the Opposition to speak in reply.

HON.

RO T.V KEPA.-In that case, Madam Chair, if the Minister is able to reassure the House that with this allocation, which I have been told is not adequate, but if he finds that it is not sufficient then they can vire from other funds within that SEG.
I just need an assurance from him that he will have an engineer to oversee this because already two Auditor General’s Reports in 2013 and 2014 have addressed the same issue where there was only one Environmental Officer instead of a proper Engineer.

Thank you.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Thank you.

The request for assurance is noted.


However after your right of reply has been presented, Parliament will vote on the amendment in the name of the Honourable Leader of the Opposition and the question is, that Head 37-3-1- 8 be increased by $299,018 in respect of Construction of Naboro Landfill – Stage 2.

Does anyone oppose the motion?

HON.

MEMBERS.- No MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- There being opposition, Parliament will vote.

HON.

P. SINGH.- The mover of the motion has requested for an assurance.
If the assurance comes in, then the motion will be withdrawn.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- I have mentioned that the request is noted.

However she has not mentioned anything about withdrawal, that is why we are voting on this.

HON.

RO T.V KEPA.- I have asked for reassurance from the Honourable Minister.

HON.

P.B.

KUMAR.- (Inaudible Interjection) HON.

RO T.V.

KEPA.- All right if anything goes wrong I know who to go to.
(Laughter) MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Do you still want to continue with your motion or are you withdrawing your motion?

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 759 .

HON.

RO T.V KEPA.- No, no, I am not withdrawing.

MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- Not withdrawing, that is what I thought so we will vote on this motion.

Question on proposed amendment put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not voted : : : 17 27 4 Proposed amendment defeated.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON.- That brings us to the end the agenda for the Committee of Supply and Parliament.

We will now vote on Head 37.

It is 29 minutes past midnight, for heaven’s sake.

(Laughter) And the question is that the amount in Head No 37 - Ministry of Local Government, Housing and Environment be approved.

Does any Member oppose the motion?

There being opposition, Parliament will vote on the motion.

Question put.

Votes Cast: Ayes Noes Not Voted : : : 27 17 4 Head 37 agreed to.
Thank you very much.

We have now concluded voting on Heads 16-37 as set out in the timetable, agreed to by the Whips.

We will now adjourn the Committee of Supply until tomorrow.

Honourable Members I will resume the Speaker’s Chair in order to adjourn the House.

(Madam Speaker resumes her seat) MADAM SPEAKER.- Honourable Members, that brings us to the end of our sitting.

I wish to take this opportunity to thank Honourable Members for your contributions to the Budget process.
Parliament is now adjourned until 9.30 this morning.

18th Nov., 2015 2016 Appropriation Bill 2015 760 The Parliament adjourned at 12.30 a. m.