Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1694846402838.pdf (South Africa)
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 1 of 150 THURSDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ____ The House met at 14:04.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Key resolution adopted at International AIDS Conference 9.
Ms M L Dunjwa (ANC) to asked the Deputy President: (a) What were the key resolutions taken at the recent International AIDS Conference that was held in Durban from 18 to 22 July 2016 and (b) what progress has the Government 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 2 of 150 made to ensure that it lives up to the theme of the conference, which was Access Equity Rights Now?

NO1939E The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon members, thank you very much.
The delegates to the 21st International AIDS Conference adopted a wonderful declaration that focused on key scientific advances with regard to fighting HIV and Aids and also identified key structural barriers to their effective implementation.
The declaration calls for access to antiretroviral therapy for all people living with HIV; scaling up of modern combination HIV prevention packages, such as pre-exposure prophylaxis and medical male circumcision; treatment and management of co- infections such as TB; accelerated research for an HIV vaccine and cure.
In addressing the structural barriers to a more effective response, many of which affect South Africa, the conference declared that it was necessary to: focus on key populations which are disproportionately affected by HIV; empower adolescent girls and young women; challenge and review laws, policies and practices that discriminate against people living with HIV; and, increase investment in community-led responses, that are led by 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 3 of 150 a number of organisations around our country, and indeed in many other countries.
The South African government was able to inform the conference that as of today – the 1st of September 2016 – South Africa will provide antiretroviral treatment to all those who test HIV- positive regardless of their CD4 count.

Hon members, today marks a new era in our country‘s fight against Aids, with a view of ending this virus.

The new treatment guidelines will further broaden access and ensure that the rights of those affected are advanced.
Already, South Africa has initiated - as many of us will know, over 3,4 million of our people who are HIV-positive on antiretroviral treatment.

In addition, almost 100% of pregnant women with HIV are offered treatment to reduce transmission in pregnancy, during childbirth and in the breastfeeding period.

In addition to the general population, special efforts are being made to reach those key populations most severely affected by HIV.
In March this year, as Chairperson of South African National AIDS Council, Sanac, I launched a special programme that will reach up to 70,000 sex workers over the next three years.

Similar programmes are being planned for the Lesbian, 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 4 of 150 Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Intersex, LGBTI, community and there is high coverage for prison inmates through the Department of Correctional Services.
The Department of Social Development is working with Sanac to address the special needs of drug users for HIV prevention and treatment.

South Africa operates its HIV response within a stringent human rights framework.

This begins with confidentiality and privacy and extends through to the rights of people living with Aids to access all services in the public and private sectors.
It includes fair access to medical and life insurance and the right to employment and fair and equal treatment also in the workplace.

As hon members are aware, the success of our Aids response is guided by the targets set in the National Strategic Plan, NSP, for HIV, STIs and TB 2012-16.
As we engage in the process of drafting the new NSP, we are calling on all members of the public, NGOs and social partners to participate by making written submissions to the Sanac secretariat or the provincial health departments.

This public participation process will make sure that the country adopts a well-balanced plan informed by the aspirations 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 5 of 150 and experiences of our people.
I hope that all Members of Parliament will, through their constituencies, particularly their offices, encourage members of the public to participate in the debate which would lead to the finalisation of the National Strategic Plan.

And I urge that wherever we are all of us should find time to participate in this very important process that will guide our response to HIV for the next five years.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

[Applause.]


Ms M L DUNJWA: Speaker, to the Deputy President, thank you for giving us such a developed and very important programme that has been declared at the International Aids Conference.

But I just want to check, as the Chairperson of Sanac, are there any systems that you are going to put in place in ensuring that at a provincial level and in the departments that you have mentioned there are programmes that are going to monitor all that you have outlined?
Is everybody going to benefit, in particular, those young women and men who are in the deep rural areas and in the farming communities who are at times not exposed to these programmes due to issues related to work or language which are not of their own making?

Thank you, hon Speaker.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker; yes, at the provincial level Sanac has structures.
The structure that we have got at the 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 6 of 150 national level is duplicated at the provincial level as well as at the local government level.

We expect that at the national level the Deputy President will chair the body that manages our response to HIV/Aids; and at the provincial level the premiers of our provincial governments will be the ones who lead this effort.
I‘m able to say, that all provinces except for one have their premiers participating actively as the leaders of this response.

The Western Cape is the only one that has delegated an MEC to lead, but in all the other provinces, we have taken a view that these councils at the provincial level are best led when the premier who is the leader of government in the province actually participates and leads the response.
At the local government level, we expect our mayors to be the ones who will lead the HIV response at the local government level.

Yes, we are scaling our response, particularly on the prevention side, as much as we possibly can.

We keep launching a number of programmes, hon Speaker, programmes that are targeted to vulnerable groups; but we also through the Minister of Health the other day launched a much broader one which is aimed at scaling up prevention in our country.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 7 of 150 The Minister of Health was able a few months ago to launch a new condom and I have brought some examples here of a new condom which is called the Max Condom.

The Max Condom is in response to what a number of people were saying the other condoms that have been introduced by government did not smell so well, and it made a noise whenever it was used.
Now through the scientific development we were able to develop a new condom which is called Max, the Max is for maximum pleasure, maximum protection and it does not make noise at all.

[Laughter.]

[Applause.]

And it comes in different flavours.

If you want the grape flavour, you can get a grape flavour.

If you want an apple flavour, you can get an apple flavour.

Mr M W L FILTANE: On a point of order, Chair, who cares to listen to noise at that time?

[Laughter.]
[Laughter.]

The SPEAKER: That‘s not a point of order, hon Filtane; hon Deputy President are you through?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, just to make a response that the issue of noise, hon Speaker ...

[Interjection.]

was reported by users.

The people who used to use the old condoms approached the Ministry of Health that these make noise.
Could you have condoms 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 8 of 150 that make less noise; for members, please help yourselves we now have got condoms which we expect we can all use for maximum pleasure and protection.

Thank you Madam Speaker.

[Applause.]

Dr H CHEWANE: Speaker, Deputy President, I think it is commendable that our people from today will be able to access antiretroviral regardless of their CD4 cell count.
Some of us have been making that noise as early as 1999, because we knew and understood that it will benefit our people.

However, there is a problem that has not yet been addressed by the government, the problem of stigma.
We still have young women in rural areas who are subjected to stigma, and we receive calls everyday from different communities because people are not comfortable in taking ARVs in clinics where they stay because we are worried that when they get home, their condition is being discussed everywhere; and they are also not allowed to go to a clinic which is a little bit further to collect the ARV therapy.
The most important question Deputy President is that HIV incidents is higher in young women between ages of 14 to 25, and that it is worsen by the phenomenon of the blessers, which is not new, it has just changed names.

It has been sugar daddies 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 9 of 150 and they look like big people who have got big tummies, who have been binges for a very long time.

What has the government been doing to assist us with the question of the blessers who are spreading the HIV infection in young women?
But also, is there a plan to make sure that women who are subjected to the stigma in rural areas are able to access the antiretroviral therapy in any clinic of their choice.

I thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I am rather glad that the hon member has asked this question, because the challenge that we have in our country is the whole issue of stigma.

People are afraid to come forward to get tested, they are afraid to come forward to declare their statuses because of stigma.
In response to this, we have launched quite a number of stigma reduction programmes.

It is not like we have been sitting and doing nothing.

They are quite a number of programmes that have been launched and the good thing is that these programmes are launched by South African National Aids Council, SANAC.
SA National Aids Council, as you know is a combination of a number of entities both community based entities, medically trained people, professors, researchers, government people, traditional 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 10 of 150 leaders, sports people and all.

Through these stigma reduction programmes, we are hoping that we will be able to reduce the issue of stigma.
But the issue of stigma will be effectively reduced when all of us talk more openly about HIV/Aids, when all of us become active participants in the fight against HIV/Aids.

The issue of the vulnerable group which is young girls and it is really adolescent girls as well as young women who are the most vulnerable and who research has found that the incidence of Aids, that is, infection has been increasing amongst them more than in any other group.
We have identified this as a problem and as a real challenge.

To this end, we have launched a massive programme with our partners; and in fact, it is a multibillion rand programme, where we hope to respond to this problem that now prevails in our country, where young girls and young women who now get into relationships - and it has been happening over a number of years, but now we find that the incidences of infection are rising more and more.
Older men now target young girls and young women and we find that they infect them and the percentage rise is becoming much greater.

So we are responding to that to raise their level of awareness.

In doing so, we are also focusing on those who target these young girls, because they too need to be given attention.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 11 of 150 However, the programme that we have started and launched is also being propelled forward by young people themselves.
It is being modernised in the way that young people know and other young can respond to.

Therefore, many of the things and the sub programmes that we have got in that programme were designed by young people and we would like to believe that it is going to have an impact because young people themselves are active participants in this programme.
My response therefore, is that, we are doing a lot to reduce stigma and to ensure that we reduce the level of infection amongst vulnerable groups and particularly adolescent girls as well as young women.

Thank you very much.

Mr N SINGH: Hon Speaker, just to follow up on the hon Deputy President, I think the mood question is, are we doing enough to create awareness especially among these vulnerable groups?
If one looks at the reports in the Ratlou Local Municipality, 3 000 young children under age were impregnated and had to drop out from school.

In another report, it is said that over 90 000 teenage pregnancies are recorded in the country every year.

And my colleague has mentioned the issue of blessers.

We can deal with the science of how we treat HIV/Aids with Antiretroviral and other medication that is available.
But hon Deputy President, would you not agree that we need to go back to 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 12 of 150 basics, where young children who are at school are in a captive audience in schools, even in pre-schools today.

What kind of education is being imparted to them in schools so that they know about HIV/Aids and all the dangers that are associated with it?

They would know about teenage pregnancies etc.

I do not believe that enough is being done at that level.
The Department of Education and Health with the social workers - in terms of United Nations Programme on HIV and AIDS, UNAIDS, we should have about two hundred thousand social workers in South Africa, but the Department of Health says 40 000 are enough.

So the question is, are we doing enough?

Will you motivate that in our school curriculum we have subjects, guidance counselling – we had it when we were in school.

Can we not introduce that again in our schools?

Thank you.
Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, in fighting this pandemic we can never do enough.

We constantly have to work very hard to extend various programmes.

We have launched quite a number of programmes, and in this regard, I think one needs to applaud the work that is being done by the Department of Health 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 13 of 150 particularly, the Minister and the Deputy Minister who are leading the Department of Health.
Dr Aaron Motsoaledi has been doing unbelievable work to make sure that we address this pandemic.

He has been coming up with programmes - clearly getting all those approved through SANAC and I think we are rather fortunate that we are not standing still and we have got a very good department that is leading our response to this.

All of us read with some shock the reports that we got with regard to Ratlou Local Municipality.
I am told it is not as high as 3000, the police officer who has been there and have looked at the situation quite closely informed us that 3000 is a sensationalist number, it is far less than that.

But that does not mean that we don‘t mean that we do not have a problem.

And quite a bit of it is also driven by poverty; it is also driven by the economic situation that confronts our people; and HIV/Aids and poverty go together and we need to address that.
Hon member, when you say that we should go back to basics I couldn‘t agree more.

We do need to go back to basics and address the problem in its totality.

We also need at the school level to raise the level of awareness to a higher level.

Schools are doing quite a lot and the Department of Basic Education is doing 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 14 of 150 quite a lot of conscientisation work but much more needs to be done.

We are at work and doing a lot.


One of the things that stand us in good stead is that in SANAC, we have got the best structure that you could ever hope for in fighting HIV/AIDS because we have tens and tens of formations that affect or impact the lives of people.

They are working with us and SANAC, and through them we are able to spread the message of awareness and one of the things that we need to do, is to strengthen our health system, something that the Department of Health is the process of doing.
So I support you and I agree with you when you say we need to do more.

Much more still needs to be done and we are not standing still we are doing quite a lot already.

Prof N M KHUBISA: Speaker, hon Deputy President, on a broader scale and especially if we do a comparative analysis, it is reported that not less than 60% of HIV/Aids infected are within the sub-Saharan Africa and most of these are found among the youth of our country.
Can you speak to the milestones that were possibly achieved with regard to spreading a message among our youth, because it appears that the message of abstinence and also the youth caring 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 15 of 150 for themselves does not find resonance especially among our youth.

Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think in response to your question, yes indeed sub-Saharan Africa carries the highest burden and as it turns out South Africa carry the biggest burden in the world.
We have got almost 7 million of our compatriots infected with HIV and that is a very high number.

It is a challenge that we all have to respond to.

How do we respond to it?

We respond to it in a formal and informal way.


In a formal sense we are responding to it through a SANAC structure; in informal way we responding to it through the work that we are doing through the Department of Health and indeed other departments as well because the fight against HIV should not only be relegated to the Department of Health.

All departments from social development, education, all others need to be involved in the fight against HIV.
Our provincial structures, particularly local governments and local governments also need to be involved.

Now, obviously abc, abstain, be faithful, and condomise, has been the main theme that we have been preaching around but in the end you will find that abstinence does not really have that resonance that you 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 16 of 150 want.

You therefore have to come up with other strategies.

These are strategies that we have come up with to respond to this challenges.
At the school level our objective is to make sure that we keep particularly the young girls which I should have referred to earlier.

Young girls in schools – they must stay in school.

And when you read the report from Ratlou you will find that many of those young girls have stopped going to schools.

They become easy prey to either the blessers or whoever you can think of.

Our objective is to keep the young girls at school.

That is a key objective because they are a vulnerable group.
We are targeting them and we want to ensure that in reducing further infections, we target a number of groups.

Sex workers and, young girls, and also the men who infect these young girls are another group that we need to target.

Our target in as far as prevention is concerned is a broad spectrum type of targeting.

We will come up with programmes that are aimed at a number of people.

In the past few years, we made tremendous progress but it would seem like now we are regressing.
This is precisely why our response in coming up with so many programmes is a direct response to this regression that we are seeing.

We believe that with all the programmes that we have come up with, with the work 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 17 of 150 that is being done we should be able to stem the further increase of these infections.

Thank you Madam Speaker.

Progress made with establishment of co-investment fund and national venture capital fund 10.
The Leader of the Opposition (DA) asked the Deputy President: (a) What progress has the Government made with the establishment of the proposed co-investment fund to assist start-up businesses, create jobs and stimulate economic growth as announced by the President, Mr Jacob G Zuma, on 9 May 2016 and (b) when will the Government prioritise the establishment of a national venture capital fund to assist in the reduction of the high unemployment rate which has left almost 9 million South Africans jobless?
NO1937E The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, as part of the government, the business and labour interactions that were started by the government, particularly by the President, Mr Zuma, he announced on 29 May 2016 a number of short-term interventions aimed at boosting economic growth and confidence in our economy.

One of these measures was the establishment by the private sector of a 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 18 of 150 joint fund for small business development.
Progress with these initiatives is way advanced.

A board has now been put in place, a chief executive has been appointed and the fund will soon open for business.

To address precisely what issue of the Leader of the Opposition has raised in his question, while the establishment of the fund is an initiative of the private sector, there is a wide-range of complimentary initiatives of government aimed at boosting job creation.
These includes, the public employment programmes, the job‘s fund programme, the industrial policy action plan, partnership with organised agriculture and rural development initiatives.
Understanding that most job creation takes place in a small and informal business sector, the government is directing significant resources on efforts towards the Small, Medium and Micro-sized Enterprises, SMME, development through the initiative like the Black Business Supplier Development Programme., BBSDP, the cooperative incentive scheme and the Shared Economic Infrastructure Facility, SEIF.
The government is also providing financial and other direct support for the emerging businesses, the National Gazelles 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 19 of 150 programme or the initiative which the Ministry of Small Business and Co-operative has launched, is taking an innovative approach to small business development by identifying high grove businesses.
The selected businesses will be supported with an integrated package of benefits, the business opportunities and incentives combined with practical business training with strong private sector involvement.

This talks to the whole process of incubating small and medium enterprises which the Ministry of Small Business and the co- operative is beginning to perfect in.

They have identified this as an initiative that can help and support small businesses.
We are also using the business, as I said, incubation model, to assist start-up businesses during the critical first few years of existence, so that they become more sustainable and profitable.

These remain high priority programmes of government and are contributing substantially to job creation.

We are also working actively with business, organised labour and the other stakeholders to address economic growth challenges and to find effective mechanisms of creating jobs.
The other initiatives that are led by the Minister of Finance and Mr Jabu Mabuza from 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 20 of 150 business includes, joint road shows by the government, business and labour to explain our country‘s economic growth programmes.

The collaboration that has been taking place between business, government and labour, is a collaboration that is definitely going to continue bearing fruit.
One of the areas is focusing on, is youth unemployment which the business community has been given a challenge to respond to.

They took the bit in their teeth, and are now coming forward with revolutionary proposals that will lead by ensuring that hundreds of thousands of young people are brought into internship and businesses, so that they can learn the world of work.

Significant and tangible progress is being made on an ongoing basis.
Clearly, we need to proceed along this road so that when the economy begins to pick up and as we utilise all these initiatives to inject more life into our economy, we have if we like, an army of young people who are well-skilled and will be able to take our economy to greater heights.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

[Applause.]

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Modulasetilo, ke rata go dumedisa Motlatsamoporesidente.

[Chairperson, I would like to greet the Deputy President.]
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 21 of 150 I want to welcome your remark on the fact that, some of the work of setting up this fund was designed primarily with the view of averting the critical recession that we are facing.

Listing to your remarks, I heard you say quite that, some of these initiatives have been led by the Minister of Finance, Mr Pravin Gordhan.
What I think therefore, is absolutely critical, that you and I can agree that establishing a fund and many of the initiatives that you‘ve put forward about stimulating macro enterprise and making sure that young people are on board, can only survive in an economic climate that is particularly stable.

I think that the point you have made is important.

I want to request you to resolve this war, obviously between Treasury and the Presidency.
In fact, using your own words, Deputy President, you said: We can‘t be operating with the government that seems to be at war with itself.

I agree with you.

So, what I‘m more fascinated about learning is that, if funds like these are going to succeed, and the point that you‘ve also made that the funds must depend on private sector involvement, and the companies such as future growth are part of that, I want to know, Deputy President is, what are you going to do to ensure that this war can be put to bed?
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 22 of 150 Surely, we can‘t continue on the economic climate such as this one.

The war between the Presidency and Treasury can‘t carry on.
So, how will we ensure that it is stopped, and that ultimately, like the similar crisis you‘ve described around HIV, we can deal with the crisis of unemployment which 9 million of our people can‘t find work, and that they must come through micro enterprise; So, what deliberate steps are you going to take therefore, to ensure that we stabilise our economy and the war between the Treasury and the Presidency is stopped?

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Clearly, the creation of a conducive climate for investments to take place and for an economy to grow requires that all the entities in our country, both state and nonstate entities should work well, because the democracy of our country is multidimensional.

It also includes nongovernmental entities like the government.
The events of the past few weeks have been a concern to many South Africans, and we‘ve called for all those who are involved to take care that whatever they do should not lead to destabilising our economy and should not lead to getting people to believe that the government is not functioning well.
We‘ve also called on all and sundry for making wild and sensational statements about whatever they may perceive is 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 23 of 150 happening, because it is the statements that also exacerbate the situation.
We would like to believe that the processes that are now underway to deal with this matter, will put this matter to bed and that we will be able to proceed forward in a way where there is decorum and in a way where one entity of government is not at war, as I said, with another entity of government.

So, that is our objective and we would like to see the government entities functioning well.
Similarly, we would like to see all other nongovernment entities that may feel tempted to join the fray resisting from doing so or desisting from doing so, so that we can have a situation of proper decorum as we proceed to manage affairs in our country as well as the economy.
But more importantly, hon Leader of the Opposition, coming to your question, I would say that, yes, we‘re taking all measures to ensure that the economy of our country grows and that indeed the Minister of Finance and a number of business leaders are involved in setting up fund structures.
This is not the only fund that has been set up, there a quite a number of initiatives that the Department of Treasury and other state Ministries that are involved in the economy, are involved 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 24 of 150 in, to make sure that we do continue focusing on job creation and the growth of our economy.

Thank you very much.

[Applause.]


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: You know that the biggest challenge to start-up businesses it is lack of access to shelf spaces where they can trade the products or supply those who put things on shelf spaces to retail.

And mostly so because black fronters are now facilitating entry of multinational shelf spaces owners into the townships.
In your declaration of interest here in Parliament you‘ve got a mall in Diepkloof, there‘s no black person there who‘s trading anything in any of those doors in Diepkloof.

You‘re building a mall in Thohoyandou called Thabani.

You‘ve got interest as well there, you might deny it but you‘ve got interest there.

All the black role players who are trying to enter into those shelf spaces are being refused.
You‘ve got interest in McDonald‘s; the suppliers of McDonald‘s are not black start-up businesses that could at least get an opportunity to build their own businesses.

How should we trust you, a person who‘s leading a counter transformation agenda against small businesses?

You‘re wiping 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 25 of 150 them out of the phase of existence because you‘re taking your businesses, partnering with multinational corporations to the townships to wipe out start-up businesses.
How should we trust you that you‘re going to create jobs?

Because the things that you‘re doing are actually working against the jobs that are much needed in our communities.

How can we trust you with such an attitude?

Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I don‘t know whether that is a question that hon Shivambu wants me to respond to.
No, you don‘t want me to respond to it because you have already made a judgement and having reached a conclusion, you are not asking for a response from me because you have already concluded.

You say, for instance, I own Thabani Mall.

I don‘t and there is such a rumour but I don‘t own it.

It would be good if you were sure about the facts that you are putting forward.
It is always sensationalised and I am able to say that I am not going to respond to the personal issues, but I am going to respond to the broader issues.

The broader point that you should be making hon Shivhambu, is the involvement of monopolies in our economy and how monopolies have been able and continue to strangle the growth of our 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 26 of 150 economy.

This was also identified by the representative of the International Monetary Fund, IMF.
Few weeks ago he said: ―The role that monopolies play in the South African economy impedes growth.‖ And that should be the issue that we should be focussing on and find solutions, hon Shivhambu.

A person like you should be able to come up with solutions and say this is what we need to do rather than launching personal attacks.

You a bright person, absolutely bright and some of us respect you for your brightness.
You always come up with some good ideas and this is an area where you need to be coming up with good ideas rather than to be launching personal attacks.

We‘ve got to all get involved in moving our country forward and stop the process of looking back and attacking others.

Come up with solutions that we can all act on.

Thank you.

[Applause.]


Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Hon Deputy President, it seems strange that hon President used in his speech on 09 May, the renewal independent power producers has a model for attracting investors and promote growth.

And rightly so, which is a matter of fact, attracted R193 billion in foreign investment and created many jobs.

But since then the Chief Executive Officer, CEO, of Eskom, Mr Brian Molefe, has put a stop to further Independent Power Producer, IPP, programmes.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 27 of 150 My question sir, the President of the country promotes IPPs but the responsible state entity cancelled the programme.

How would you explain this misalignment?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, it is not correct that the IPP programmes have been cancelled.
Eskom in doing their own sums, because they are an original generator of electricity and doing their own sums, they have reached agreement with the IPPs, it is possible that the cost of generation on buying the power they been getting is a little higher than what they can generate it for.

They have been raising that type of concern.

It is a debate, a discussion that needs to be engaged in.
What is really happening is that the cost of generating electricity through IPPs has been coming down over a number of years.

Solar energy, wind, water or hydro has been coming down and we need to look at exactly where the inflection point is, particularly when you compare the two.

Clearly, the IPPs are still a credible programme of the government.

The government has decided that we should proceed with IPPs and Eskom as the original generator on the other side is expressing its views.
This is a matter that is going to be discussed and we are going to be able to reach a medium ground so that we find level of consensus.

I don‘t believe that one 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 28 of 150 should be too overly concerned because the IPPs are still the programme of the government.

Thank you.

Mr R W T CHANCE: Hon Speaker, back in April, two colleagues from this side of the House and I had the opportunity of meeting Mr Gore and Mr Joffe.
They were the setting-up specialists of this fund from the private sector.

They told us that there was going to be a matching fund of roughly R1,5 billion from government and the private sector.

The private sector will only come up with the money.

So, it is now September and it will be good to get an update from you sir, but we are still waiting to see where the extra R1,5 billion is coming from, from government.
I also received an email this morning from an advisor of the fund who said that the fund is very much business-led and government will be a shareholder and be treated like any other shareholder.

The question then is Deputy President, is the government satisfied in being a shareholder like any other shareholder if it is putting R1,5 billion into the fund and where is that money coming from and when is it coming?

Thank you.
Thank you.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 29 of 150 The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Gore and Mr Joffe have been working on this architecture of this fund.

As I said in my preliminary response that quite a lot of work has gone into this and the actual final proposals still needs to be finalised within government.

The issue of co-investing is another issue that has to be looked at by government.
They are acting in a typical way that business should work, they run very fast and within government there are processes that need to go through a number of iterations and that‘s precisely what is happening now.

So, there hasn‘t been full finality within government.

Clearly, the issue such as an investment which will match the private sector investment is going to be a budgetary matter.

It has not come through to the budgetary process, budget office nor has it come here.
So, you can already see that there is a little bit of misalignment with the way that they work very quickly than us because we manage public money and we‘ve got to make sure it is within budgetary processes and limits.

All that is being looked at and I have no doubt that this wonderful initiative that they‘ve come up with is something that can take the development of small and medium enterprises forward.

We are really excited by the way in which the business community has responded to this crisis.
The other one, as I said is youth 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 30 of 150 unemployment.

They have also come up with fascinating and innovative ideas.

This is going to be largely under their own steam.

That too, is been discussed and is going to be finalised and when we are ready, we will be able to make an announcement.

But at the same time, we keep on discussing with them so that the enthusiasm that is there in the private sector to help small and medium businesses to develop is not lost.
All this, is still part of the broader framework of working on the initiatives and proposals that we hope will be able to move the envelope forward.

Thank you.

Impact of Nelson Mandela International Day towards building social cohesion 11.
Ms R N Capa (ANC) asked the Deputy President: With reference to Nelson Mandela International Day on 18 July, which serves as a reminder of our duty to improve the lives of those persons less fortunate than us, what (a) was the response of ordinary South Africans to the Government‘s call to play their part in contributing selfless service to the less fortunate and (b) is the impact of the specified international day towards building social cohesion, not 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 31 of 150 only in South Africa but also across the continent and the world?
NO1942E The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, nearly seven years have passed since the United Nations General Assembly declared 18 July, Nelson Mandela International Day, in recognition of the founding father of our country and our democracy, particularly in recognition of his contribution to the culture of peace and freedom.

It is worth recalling what Madiba himself said at the time when this was done.
He said, ―We are humbled by the decision of the United Nations to recognise 18 July as Nelson Mandela International Day.‖ He further said, ―It is our wish that the day be used not to honour an individual, but rather to remember the millions who have contributed to the struggle for freedom throughout the world.
He went on further to say, ―The best way to commemorate these struggles is for people everywhere to work with and within communities to make this a better world.‖ This is a day for active service - that is 18 July - in which South Africans join others across the world to perform acts of goodwill and sharing in support of people who are vulnerable or marginalised.
This year, South Africans rolled up their sleeves and became involved in a wide-range of activities and projects 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 32 of 150 from spending time with senior citizens to painting facilities such as early childhood centres or schools or planting food gardens.

It was a galaxy of wonderful activities that many South Africans got involved in.

It was a wonderful scene to see.

These activities enable participants to broaden their human experience and social conscience.
As South Africa we were particularly honoured to recently host the 21 International Aids Conference, in Durban, on precisely the day that Nelson Mandela was born, 18 July.

This coincided with Nelson Mandela International Day.

The International Aids Society conscientiously chose 18 July for the conference to commence as a mark of honour and respect for our international icon.
The conference paid various tributes to President Mandela‘s contribution to the national and global campaigns for prevention treatment and the elimination of stigma.

Nelson Mandela International Day encourages the development of caring, compassionate, helpful, empathetic and ethical communities.

The values that underpin Nelson Mandela Day should form the foundation of the society we are seeking to build.
In this regard, we wish to commend the young girls who in the last week of the women‘s month rose against an injustice, which 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 33 of 150 undermines their identity, humanity, own cultural rights and own histories.

I‘m speaking here of the learners of Pretoria Girls High School, Lawson Brown High School in Port Elizabeth and other institutions of learning.
If our country is to truly honour the legacy of Nelson Mandela and build social cohesion, we must eradicate all forms of cultural chauvinism, be it black or white.

We need to make sure that everyday becomes a Nelson Mandela Day for all South Africans.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Nksz R N CAPA: Sekela Mongameli welizwe lakowethu, ndiyabulela ngengcaciso entle kangaka, nendithembayo ukuba abantu bakowethu phaya emakhaya bakuvile.
Nangona siyibona le misebenzi kwaye siyingqina, mhlekazi, ndifuna ukunabisa umbuzo ngelithi: Njengokuba ucacisile, Ingaba abo bangconwanyana kunabo bangathathi ntweni nabanezinto ezinkulu kakhulu bayazibandakanya kusinina kulo msebenzi wokunceda abo bangathathi ntweni?

Ingaba ngokwendlela obona ngayo abantu abanezinto nezinwe, bayakwazi na ukufikelela kweli phulo lihle kangaka, nelililifa likazwelonke esilinikwe yintandane, uBawo uMandela.
Okwesibini, nanjengoko ubala iminyaka, ingaba liza kubakho kusini na ithuba apho abantu balibalayo ukuba abalingani, 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 34 of 150 bazibone kuqhelekile ukuhlala ndawonye, njengokuba namhlanje kukho amadabi kweli lizwe afana nezindlu zangasese eKhayelitsha nalawo eenwele ePitoli.

Maninzi ke amanye amadabi aliwayo ngabo bangathathi ntweni besenziwa ngabo bathatha entweni.
Ingaba yinto entle kakhulu ukuba le nto ingangena engqondweni ide ibe lisiko nesithethe into yokuba akuvumelekanga ukuba ndidle isidudu wena udle inyama mihla yonke.

Mongameli, ungandinabisela ukuba likhona kusini na eli themba?

Enkosi.

(Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Ms R N CAPA: Hon Deputy President of our country, thank you for your clear explanation, which I believe our fellow citizens at home heard you.
Although we see and confirm these programmes, sir, I would like to elaborate with a question and ask this: As you have explained, I would like to know whether those who are in middle class and those who are rich are included or not in this programme that is made for the disadvantaged?

Whether in your thinking those who are rich, can access in this good campaign, which is a legacy that we were given by our beloved, Bawo uMandela.
Secondly, as you are counting years, will there be time where people forgot that they are not equal, see it easy for themselves to stay in the same place, since today there are 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 35 of 150 battles in this country like the one of toilets in Khayelitsha and those of hair in Pretoria.

There are other battles that are fought by those who are disadvantaged provoked by those who are rich.
This can be very good if it can be always be in our minds and become a tradition, that it is not allowed for me to eat porridge while you eat meet every day.

Hon President, will you elaborate for me whether there is this hope or not?

Thank you.]

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, there is a maxim that goes unto those to whom much is given, much is expected.

I think this is the maxim by which Nelson Mandela lived.
Responding to the question that came very much strongly to mind to me that when we look at Nelson Mandela International Day, we actually need to be saying, what did Nelson Mandela stand for?

What he stood for was to try and promote the livelihood and the rights of those who were less off.

If you do that, that is how you begin to build and have cohesion in a nation.
That is how you begin to demonstrate what Nelson Mandela stood for, which is being compassionate, empathetic and a person who feels the suffering of others.

That is what Nelson Mandela was all about.

Nelson Mandela International Day calls upon all of us to do as Nelson did in word and in deed, to demonstrate our care.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 36 of 150 Now, there is a lot of poverty and suffering in our country.
The hon member asks: Do we have a situation in our country where those who have much are able to care for those who have nothing?

I am not so sure whether we have reached that stage in our country.

It is a nirvana which Nelson Mandela wished for.

It is something that, if we get everyday to be a Nelson Mandela Day, we can actually move in that direction.

I raise this because it is important to remember what the father of our nation was all about.

He was all about just that.


He abhorred the suffering of people.

He wanted to make sure that all people could lead a decent life, and he was very revolutionary in his approach in so far as these things are concerned.

Therefore, I would say that may be there needs to be some dialogue in our country of how, as South Africans, we can finally get to grips with what Nelson Mandela stood for.
The compassion and empathy that Nelson Mandela represented, particularly when we look at the suffering that many of our compatriots are living through in this day and age.

Thank you, hon Speaker.

Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Speaker, thank you Deputy President, as a matter of interest this day has always been very special to me because it also happens to be my birthday.
As you have 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 37 of 150 indicated, when this day was declared an international day there were high expectations in the country; lots of enthusiasm for this day, we spoke of nation-building and we spoke of the rainbow nation.
However, in recent times, the economic, political and social developments in South Africa have resulted in the setting in of a demoralised and sometimes, something we call compassion fatigue with the voters clearly indicating in recent times that they are ready for change.

Deputy President, you referred to this thing twice - that every day should be a Nelson Mandela Day and that is why I ask this question and I agree with you.
What steps is the government taking to implement the values espoused by former President Nelson Mandela on a daily basis, not just on 18 July, to improve the lives of persons who are less fortunate than us, especially in the face of high levels of service delivery failures?

And most importantly, you again referred to this unemployment of crisis proportion amongst young people of this country.

[Applause.]

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I am honoured to hear that hon Motau agrees with me.
So, we don‘t have much that we differ on.

But, the question that says: What is government doing to demonstrate its compassion, and empathy with the majority of our 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 38 of 150 people in South Africa?

I can say that this government is just all about that.

What the government has been doing since this governing party has been in office, demonstrating its compassion and its empathy to the people of our country.
The progress that has been achieved, which is undisputed when it comes to changing the lives of millions and millions of South Africans, bears testimony to this.

This government has been able, hon Motau, to lift millions and millions of our people out of abject poverty to a much better situation.

Statistics SA attests to the fact that poverty levels have, indeed, come down.
Delivery that this government has embarked on at the cost of billions and billions of rands, has been about demonstrating that compassion.

The almost 400 million houses that have been built have not only brought joy, but have also brought dignity to the majority of our people.

Compassion, hon Motau, is also about dignity.

It is also about observing and respecting the human rights of ordinary people.
The work that I was talking about with regard to HIV/Aids, the 3,4 million people who are on antiretroviral, ARVs, today the majority of them would have died already.

Do you remember we lived in a country where we were burying our people almost every weekend in their thousands?

That has come to an end.

That shows and demonstrates compassion.


Many other things that have been 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 39 of 150 done in the interest of our people to lighten the burden of poverty and of a difficult life had been done because this government has sought to put its people first.

This Batho Pele approach that we have had, has actually been practiced in reality.

Today, our country is very different from the country that we inherited from the apartheid mis-rulers of this country.
We are a much better country and we come across as a caring country.

What we now need to do is, to take this work forward and to demonstrate greater care by improving the livelihoods of our people more and creating more jobs.

We are on the way to do that without any fail.

This government is a government of the people that seeks to improve the lives of our people as a whole.

Thank you very much.


Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon Speaker, to hon Deputy President, thank you very much for the answer you have provided.

I think, you will agree with me that ordinary South Africans through the nongovernmental organisations, NGOs, continue to play a crucial role in assisting the vulnerable sectors of our society every day, not just on International Madiba Day.
You will agree with me that they often deliver vital services on behalf of the state where the state fails to deliver, but the 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 40 of 150 NGOs are facing very difficult times, hon Deputy President.

Funds are drying up.

There seems to be a type of animosity emanating from government towards the NGOs.

In fact, earlier this year during his Budget Vote speech Minister Mahlobo said: But there are those who are used as NGOs, but they are not.
They are just security agents that are being used for covert operations.

Can you therefore today confirm, hon Deputy President, that this is an official view of your government that the NGOs are enemies of the state and can you confirm or deny whether your government is planning a clampdown on NGOs and the nongovernmental organisations?
Also Deputy President, will you take it upon yourself to mend the fences with some of the NGOs who no longer feel as valuable government partners in bringing about socioeconomic change in social cohesion in our country?

I thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon Van Der Merwe, I cannot confirm what is not true.

It isn‘t true that the government sees the NGOs as the enemy of the government.

We work with the NGOs in almost everything that we do.
When you look at policing, we have community policing forums and many NGOs participate in those.

How can we even begin to think that NGOs are enemies of 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 41 of 150 the state or the government?

It is through NGOs that we are able to do and perfect our work.

In many ways, the people who work in NGOs, the participants in NGOs, are the ones who do effective work - working together with their government.
We know that many NGOs are having serious challenges and problems with regard to funding.

Some of these NGOs are actively supported in a number of the programmes that are executed by government and also by government funding.

So, this government is pro NGOs.

This government works with NGOs.

I was giving you a very good example of the SA National Aids Council, Sanac.

The entire body of Sanac is made up of NGOs other than government and state-owned businesses.
It is through those NGOs that we are able to do the work that we are doing and it is through those NGOs that we were able to turn around our response to HIV/Aids.

So, I am able to stand here and say we want to continue working NGOs and we will support NGOs because many of them do absolutely valuable work.

There may well be other NGOs that have different agendas and it‘s not all NGOs.
Those NGOs that have different agendas some of them may even be working on behalf of other people who are enemies of our country from outside.

Those are the different categories of NGOs.

But, the NGOs that we have and work with here in South Africa are mainly loyal NGOs and we want to continue working with them.

We will assist them wherever they 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 42 of 150 encounter challenges and difficulties with regard to fundraising.
That is what we do actively as the chairperson of Sanac, working with many NGOs that are part of Sanac.

That is what my office does whenever they encounter difficulties with funding.

We intervene on their side to give them assistance and support so that they can get funding and continue doing their work.

We are pro NGOs and we are not against NGOs.

Thank you, very much.

Mr N S MATIASE: Speaker, hon Capa raised an important question but there is context to this question.
That context is found in the set of values and principles that Madiba stood and spent his life for.

These principles are: Self-respect; respect for others; respect for the rule of law, the respect for the Constitution of the country, and; commitment to moral uprightness and ethical conduct.

Your party represents an antithesis of what Madiba stood for.
Your party is keeping in office a President, a man who is an affront, a cause of collective dismay against the collective conscious of the people of South Africa.

It keeps in office: A man who has failed to uphold, defend and protect the Constitution; a man who has over 780 charges of corruption hanging over his head; a man who has used public monies to build himself a castle; a man who was rejected by South Africans during municipal elections.
He has 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 43 of 150 been rejected because South Africans said, unequivocally, they cannot, in their good conscious, be associated with a man who is a social scum; a man by the name of Jacob Zuma.

The question to you, Deputy President, is, by keeping this man in office, who has become a social scum in keeping with the values and principle that Madiba stood for?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: One of the things that Madiba taught us is that however much you may disagree with someone, however much you may abhor someone, the language that you use in describing another human being should be in keeping with the language that you would like to be used when people describe you.

[Applause.]

Now, I say this, hon member, because I would have wanted to know, - it is a pity that I can‘t ask you a question, ...

[Interjections.]

... no, no, no, it is my turn to answer questions.


No, it is my turn to answer questions.

It is not his turn to answer questions -.

How he would have felt if somebody in describing him, described him in the terms that he has referred to President Zuma and say he is a scum because Madiba taught us that however much you disagree with everyone, always respect another human being.

Always treat them with dignity.

And that is all I want to say.

Thank you very much.

[Interjections.]


1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 44 of 150 Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker ...

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, the Deputy President has answered the question.

Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker on a point of order.

The SPEAKER: What is the point of order, hon Malema?

Mr J S MALEMA: No.

it is unacceptable for the Deputy President to avoid answering questions.

You did that with Floyd, you are patronising and avoiding questions deliberately.

The question is very clear.


Leave the side issues because maturity, amongst others, requires of you to rise above and not want to stick to the pettiness of other members ...

[Interjections.]

... because you are a Deputy President ...

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, I think ... Mr J S MALEMA: ... you avoided answering Floyd‘s question because you patronised him and said all sorts of things.

Now the question is, is the President in keeping with what Madiba stood for?
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, ... 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 45 of 150 Mr J S MALEMA: And you have not answered that question and you do that skillfully so because the negotiations have taught you to dodge questions.

That is not ...

[Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema ... Mr J S MALEMA: ... you have to answer questions.

Please hon Speaker, let the Deputy President answer the question.

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, may I ask you to take your seat.
We are now passing on to Question 12 asked by hon Ntshayisa to the Deputy President.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Speaker, Speaker ...

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, please take your seat.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Speaker, can we address one principle question?

The SPEAKER: No.

Hon Shivambu, you are on your ...

[Interjections.]

... Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But the Rule you have adopted expects all the Executive members to respond ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 46 of 150 The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, to start with you are not on your seat and you want me to pay attention to you when you are actually inappropriately on your feet in the House.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Can you please note me before ...

[Inaudible.]

...

[Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: No.

Hon Shivambu, please take your seat and let us continue to finish the question time to the Deputy President.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But what is the purpose of these question session if the question is not being answered?

The SPEAKER: No.

Hon Shivambu, please take your seat!

Please take your seat.

The question has been asked by hon Ntshayisa.

I will now ask the Deputy President ...

[Interjections.]

Ms N V MENTE: Hon Speaker ...

The SPEAKER: ... to answer the question.

Ms N V MENTE: Can you please recognise me.

The SPEAKER: I am not recognising a person who is on her feet.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 47 of 150 Ms N V MENTE: But I have been raising my hand and you are not recognising me.

The SPEAKER: No.

Ms N V MENTE: You are simply ignoring my hand!

The SPEAKER: Don‘t shout.

Ms N V MENTE: But you are ignoring me.

The SPEAKER: Hon member, do not shout.

Ms N V MENTE: Hon Speaker, please recognise me.

The SPEAKER: Take your seat.

Ms N V MENTE: No, I need your recognition.

The SPEAKER: Take your seat!


Ms N V MENTE: Because this matter we spoke about it in the programming committee this morning.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 48 of 150 The SPEAKER: Hon member, you have no right to be on your feet and addressing the Chair at the moment.

Dr H CHEWANE: Speaker, on a point of order.

The SPEAKER: You can‘t raise a point of order on your feet.

Dr H CHEWANE: Okay, Speaker, on a point of order.

[Laughter.]

The SPEAKER: What is the point of order?


Dr H CHEWANE: Thank you very much, Speaker, we had a problem yesterday about Ministers who were not answering questions and I think that it would be very difficult to resolve that problem of Ministers when the Deputy President is doing the same thing that the Ministers are doing.

We had the same problem yesterday and Ministers were very evasive when they were dealing with questions.
The SPEAKER: Hon Chewane, I am not aware of the problem you had yesterday and in fact if there is a problem brought to my attention, I will attend to it.

I will find ways.

Dr H CHEWANE: Our challenge now is that the Deputy President is very evasive to our questions.

He is not dealing with the 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 49 of 150 questions as they are asked.
We need directions from you Speaker, because I know that it is agreed that when questions are asked in this Parliament, they must be answered competently.

The SPEAKER: Hon Chewane, the direction I am giving is that we proceed with the questions to the Deputy President and I would like him to answer the question raised by hon Ntshayisa.

Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker ...

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, if it‘s ... please, hon Malema, take your seat.

Mr J S MALEMA: No, just recognise me.


The SPEAKER: Let‘s start by you taking your seat.

Mr J S MALEMA: Alright.

[Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema?

Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker, on a point of order: Yesterday, when we had a problem, the presiding officer referred the matter back to the Minister, asking if he wanted to answer the Question.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 50 of 150 There was a concern that he hadn‘t answered the Question.

The Minister then answered the Question for the second time.
I am asking you to take it back to the Deputy President to see if he would like to answer this Question on whether the President is living up to the values of former President Mandela, even when the court has described him in the manner that the hon Matiase has explained to you.

Please, Speaker, refer the matter back to the Deputy President.

Perhaps we‘ll get an answer.

The SPEAKER: No.

Mr J S MALEMA: If he does not want to answer it a second time, perhaps we can then proceed to the next Question.
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, I am proceeding to ask the Deputy President to answer Question 12.

[Interjections.]

Particulars regarding discussions held with the government of the Kingdom of Lesotho 12.
Mr L M Ntshayisa (AIC) asked the Deputy President: 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 51 of 150 Whether, with reference to his visit to the Kingdom of Lesotho as a Southern African Development Community facilitator of political stability in that country, he held any discussions with the government of the Kingdom of Lesotho regarding the impact of the political instability in Lesotho on social and economic relations between South Africa and Lesotho, as manifested by the killings resultant from stock theft on the mountain borders between Matatiele and the Kingdom of Lesotho and citizens of Lesotho who live in the Republic illegally; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details?
NO1910E The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, my engagements with the government, as well as other formations in the Kingdom of Lesotho, in my capacity as the SADC Facilitator, have been limited to the regional mandate of promoting political and security stability.

I have not had discussions on matters pertaining to issues that impact on the bilateral relations between the South African government and the government of Lesotho, as my role is that of SADC Facilitator.
Matters pertaining to bilateral relations between South Africa and Lesotho are dealt with by the Department of International Relations and Co-operation, under the umbrella of the South 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 52 of 150 Africa-Lesotho Joint Bilateral Commission on Co-operation.

The SA Police Service, SA National Defence Force and the Department of Home Affairs are involved in mutual efforts to deal with crossborder crime that affects citizens of both countries.
Continued political security instability in Lesotho has a negative impact on both of our economies.

It is therefore in the interests of South Africa that a lasting solution be found to the challenges that Lesotho is going through.

I thank you.
I thank you.

Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon Speaker, also linked to the social and economic relations between these two states is the alleged, illegal old-age pension grant that is being received by the people of Lesotho from the South African government, having paid some monies to Home Affairs officials and successfully applied for these old-age pension grants.

Deputy President, have you ever perhaps thought about addressing this matter, together with the Kingdom of Lesotho?
How do you perhaps think this will come to an end; or what is the position; and what is that you have planned to bring an end to this matter?

It is robbing our country of a lot of money and we are losing a lot of money, unnecessarily.

Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the matter that the hon member is raising is a matter that is under discussion between 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 53 of 150 the governments of South Africa and Lesotho.
Indeed, our Minister of Home Affairs has been involved in extensive discussions with his counterpart in Lesotho, up to and including having gone to Lesotho to streamline the permit system that Basotho who are here should have and to make sure that that is properly handled.

So, that matter is being addressed, and at the appropriate time, I am sure, without a doubt, that the Minister of Home Affairs and the South African government will be able to announce something in due course.

Thank you very much.


Ms D D RAPHUTHI: Speaker, aa!

Ndi masiari [good afternoon], Deputy Minister, and happy Heritage Month.

Thank you for the excellent work that you are doing as a SADC Facilitator and across the globe to ensure that peace and stability are being realised.

[Interjections.]

Two days ago, you came out of the SADC Summit in Swaziland.

What were the outcomes of that summit?

As South Africa, we are tightening our security.


International Relations is part of the Peace and Security Cluster.

How far is the process with the Border Management Agency?

I thank you.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 54 of 150 The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the summit that has just ended in Swaziland, at which President Zuma was elected as Chairperson of SADC, with the next summit going to take place in South Africa in 2018, decided on a number of things.
These included countries such as Madagascar, how to consolidate the peace effort, the DRC and Lesotho.

As regards Lesotho, the summit noted the report from President Nyusi, the outgoing Chairperson of the SADC Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Co-operation, as well as from the Facilitator.
It urged and called upon the government of Lesotho to move forward with regard to implementing the recommendations of the Phumaphi Commission report in relation to making sure that the security and constitutional reforms do proceed forward, as earlier decided by SADC, as well as the investigation around the death of Brig Mahao, and making sure that the issue of Gen Kamoli is also resolved.

So, in broad outline, those were the issues discussed.
The summit also made sure that the leaders of various opposition parties that are in exile should be encouraged to go back to Lesotho.

We have been in discussion with them on this, on an ongoing basis.

So, those were the broad and general decisions that were taken by the summit.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 55 of 150 Clearly, in relation to the other issues of ensuring that we stabilise the situation in Lesotho, we continue to work and continue to focus on meeting with various entities.
Each time we go to Lesotho, we meet with NGOs, the government, the King, and others, including the churches in Lesotho.

We would like to believe that yes, progress is indeed being made, on an ongoing basis.

We should reach a situation in Lesotho soon, where there will be full stability.

I think South Africa‘s interests will be best served when Lesotho is at peace with itself and where we are able to relate to a Lesotho that is at peace, and where there are no major political ructions and issues.
Thank you very much, hon Speaker.

Mr S MOKGALAPA: Hon Speaker, the Deputy President would agree with me that this is part of the bigger problem of the domestic, political challenges in Lesotho.

As a facilitator, you have referred to the issues.

There are two key issues that came up from the SADC commission of inquiry that are still outstanding.

These are the removal of Brig Tlali Kamoli and the return of opposition leaders.

In addition, they have missed the deadline, which you have referred to.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 56 of 150 If these issues are not resolved – and you, as facilitator, have already missed the deadline – they have a tendency to dent your legacy.

In terms of facilitating this matter, you would then be regarded as a failure because these are two key issues that haven‘t been resolved.

Mr Deputy President, when is the new deadline?


When will these issues be resolved; and what steps are you, as Facilitator, taking to ensure that you stick to the deadline and that these two key issues are resolved for the political stability of the Basotho?

I thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, when doing all this work, one is not involved in a contest, competing to have a legacy, or not.

One is simply doing one‘s job to ensure that one assists with the peace process in a country.
That is what peacemaking is all about.

It is not a competition or a contest.

What we are involved in is to seek, as I was saying, to install more permanent stability, politically and security-wise, in Lesotho.

That is being worked on.

I had a meeting with the leaders of the three political parties that fled Lesotho to live in South Africa for a while.

We discussed, at great length, what it is that would make them go 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 57 of 150 back to Lesotho.
Taking them back to Lesotho by force is not one of the things that is available to us.

In the end, they have to go back to Lesotho knowing that the climate there is conducive for them to return to Lesotho.

They must be convinced that that is the case.

I am sure that we are getting close to that point.

Yes, having missed two deadlines is a matter of trying to get as many people and organisations as possible to work together to achieve a particular end.
When it comes to the departure or the retirement of Gen Kamoli, it is a matter also of being in process.

The government of Lesotho was able to brief the SADC summit and inform it that this is a matter they are working on and finalising.

I am sure that in no time at all, we will get some news out of this.

It is work in progress.

Lesotho is work in progress and we will be able to achieve success soon.

Thank you very much.


Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Speaker, Deputy President, at the heart of the relationship between the people‘s Republic of South Africa and Lesotho is the manner in which we have consistently treated the people of Lesotho.

The people of Lesotho helped build our 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 58 of 150 mining industry and our mining sector as early as the 18th century.
What is your government doing, in particular, to prevent private companies in South Africa treating the people of Lesotho as cheap labour, consistently and in particular, the mining companies?

The mining company, in which you have shares, is the biggest exploiter of the Lesotho people.

[Interjections.]

What is your government doing?


The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, one of the good things is that we have a labour relations dispensation in our country, through which the working people of our country are able to join trade unions.

Whichever they are, those trade unions are able to represent their interests and their rights, and they are able to promote their rights.

This is a matter that is best left with those unions.
However, having said that, the government of South Africa is one of the leading governments in the world that has not only promoted, but has advocated and installed the best rights for working people in our country.

This is the best government that working people in our country have ever had.
Through the rights that they have and enjoy, they are able to get their unions, 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 59 of 150 their organisations that represent them, to represent them effectively, to make sure that where they are exploited, they are able to raise these matters in both a formal manner and in an effective way to make sure that exploitation of working people does come to an end.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Programmes planned Government for education and job creation 13.
Ms R M M Lesoma (ANC) asked the Deputy President: With reference to the Government‘s plans to achieve the objectives of the National Development Plan Vision 2030, what programmes has the Government planned for education and job creation in addressing the challenges highlighted in the 2016 Community Survey Report of Statistics South Africa, which shows the progress that the country has made as a nation in key areas of service delivery and which is used to inform strategic planning for the Government?
NO1941E The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the government‘s education and job creation programmes for addressing the challenges highlighted in the 2016 Community Survey report are anchored in the National Development Plan, NDP, as well as in the Medium 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 60 of 150 Term Strategic Framework, MTSF.

The three key levers of implementing the NDP are: enhancing economic growth, enhancing the capabilities of South Africans, and developing a capable developmental state and an active citizenry.
With respect to education, our matriculation pass rate – and many people have forgotten this - has improved from 58% in 1994 to 71% in 2015.

To improve access and equity, around 70% of learners are now in no-fee schools.

To further enhance the quality of our educational outcomes, we are working to improve teacher development and track its effectiveness.
To reduce the drop out rate in the Further Education and Training, FET, phase, we use technology to improve teaching and improve oversight and support to schools by education districts.

Access to higher education and training opportunities for young South Africans almost doubled between 1994 and 2014.

Over a million students are currently enrolled in higher education institutions.
Government is building on this progress by creating greater access to quality post-school education and training through the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, and monitoring changes in university fee structures.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 61 of 150 We are revising the policy governing the disbursement of the skills levy to support the post-school training and education system more effectively.
We are strengthening the role of Technical Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges in providing theoretical training for artisans and ensuring that key government departments continue to work with business to ensure the transition of qualifying students into the labour market.

Job creation is intricately linked to economic growth which is driven by diverse factors which include the availability of a skilled and capable work force, labour stability and investor confidence.
Government is making important progress in the implementation of the Nine-Point Plan to turn our economy around and to increase employment.

Government continues to focus its incentive programmes and other support mechanisms on labour intensive sectors such as clothing, textiles, the leather and footwear value chain, agro-processing and business process services.
The Interministerial Committee on Investment chaired by the President is co-ordinating 40 priority investment projects 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 62 of 150 covering areas such as agro-processing, energy, infrastructure and manufacturing services.

These projects are expected to have significant economic impact.

The other thing is that they can be implemented in a short space of time.
Government is working with business and labour on a number of measures to grow the economy and to create jobs, more especially for young people.

Government has a plan to improve skills and create employment.

We are encouraged by ordinary South Africans who are rolling up their sleeves by starting small businesses, initiating early childhood development programmes, recycling waste and supporting high school learners with their work.

Indeed, we are a country that is at work.

Thank you very much.


Nks R M M LESOMA: Mhlali ngaphambili, Sekela Mongameli ohloniphekileyo.

Amacebo mahle uma ngabe ekhona kodwa aba yinkinga ukuthi iphepha elibhalwe kuwo uma engenziwa ngendlela enqunyiwe ngawo kufane nokuthi udlale ngalelo phepha obhale kulo.
Besinxusa lowa Mongameli ohloniphekileyo uthathe leNdlu neNingizimu Afrika yonkana ukuthi ngabe eziphi izindlela kumbe uhla ozolisebenzisa ukuqapha ukuthi lamasu osuwabekile emahle enjalo uzokwazi ukuwabheke ngeso lokhozi ukuthi ayalandeleleka ikakhulukazi ezemfundo?

Mangizibongele.

(Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 63 of 150 [Ms R M M LESOMA: Chairperson, hon deputy President.
The plans are good if there are available but it becomes a problem if they are not implemented, it is the waste of paper that they are written on.

Hon deputy President, we ask that you tell this House and the whole of South Africa, what are the strategies that you will use to monitor that these plans that you have mentioned are implemented especially in the department of education?

Thank you.]
Thank you.]

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We are able to say that these plans that are set out in the NDP and in the Medium Term Strategic Framework are plans that are monitored on an ongoing basis by the government as a whole.

Every department is aligned to implement the plans that are put in place, not only in education, but also in every other discipline that you can think of.
Every department has to craft its own strategic plan towards implementing the National Development Plan and the Medium Term Strategic Framework.

What we do ... we identify a number of outcomes that we want to achieve.

We have up to 14 outcomes and each outcome has its own sub-outcomes that are monitored by the department in the Presidency of Monitoring and Evaluation.
Now, Cabinet monitors 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 64 of 150 all these implementation processes with a fine tooth comb on an ongoing basis to see whether we are moving forward or lagging behind.

Where we are lagging behind we drill deeper down to find out exactly what is holding us back.

We deploy people and resources to make sure that what we have set out in our plans and what we have sharpened through our outcomes is actually done.

Education is a case in point.


Where we have identified weaknesses both in basic and higher education we are able to address those.

Some of the progress that we see is as a result of the monitoring and evaluation that we are focusing attention on.

So, in as far as is the National Development Plan is concerned, yes hon member, ... Uthi lamasu abhaliwe angapheleli kuphela kulamaphepha abhalwe kuwo, yiqiniso lelo.
Nathi senza ukuthi sibenesiqiniseko ukuthi lamasu esinawo angabi amasu abhalwe phansi kuphela, abe amasu ezinto esizozenza ngempela.

LoHulumeni uyaqhuba, uyasebenza.

Uqinisekisa ukuthi yonke into esayitshela abantu ukuthi sizoyenza ngeqiniso siyayenza.

Namanje sisaqhuba siyawenza umsebenzi wokuthi izimpilo zabantu zibengcono ziqhubekele 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 65 of 150 phambili.

Ngiyabonga.

[Ihlombe.]

(Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)


[You are saying these plans that are put in place must not only end up in the papers that they are written on, that is true.

We are also making sure that these plans that we have don‘t just end up written down, they must be plans of the things that we will really do.

This government is moving forward, and working.

It is ensuring that everything we promised the people that we will do, we do it.
We are still progressively doing the work of making people‘s lives progressive and better.

Thank you.

[Applause.]]

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy President, contained within the same report is the dire need to create permanent jobs.

There is a concurrence between Statistics SA and the Human Sciences Research Council, HSRC, that unemployment was at more than 26% in June of the last quarter and that about 15 million people are uneconomically active in our country.
Almost 2,5 million are discouraged in seeking jobs.

One thing that militates against all this creation of permanent jobs is the issue of labour brokers.

What is it that can be done 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 66 of 150 to deal with the whole thing of labour brokers because they are not doing our country any good?

Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, indeed the issue of unemployment is a major problem.

In fact, it is a headache and it should be for all of us.
It is for this reason that every government department‘s objective is to see the extent to which jobs can be created and to create climate conducive to the creation of jobs.

That is our key objective.

The issue of labour brokers was brought up very strongly by trade unions.

The Department of Labour addressed this issue to a great extent through legislation and through other regulations.

It however still poses a problem, particularly in the trade union movement.
It is something that is still being discussed.

Whenever we get an opportunity to interact with labour we discuss it so that we can find a permanent solution.

Lesi isilonda esifanele ukuthi siphole.

Siyoqinisekisa ukuthi siyaphola ngelinye ilanga ukuthi siphole ukuthi umzimba ube umzimba ophile kahle.

[This is a wound that should heal.

We will ensure that one day it heals in order for the body to be healthy.]

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 67 of 150 Thank you.


Mr K J MILEHAM: Deputy President, according to the 2016 Community Survey report, the proportion of unemployed youth in the Vembe District Municipality grew by two percentage points between 2011 and 2016.

It now stands at 38,3% or more than a third.

In that municipality, the website puts the unemployment figure amongst the youth at 50,6%.

Less than 20% of the people there over the age of 20 have passed matric.
Now, given the fact that this is a district municipality in which the town of Vuwani is situated where 26 schools were burned to the ground during service delivery and demarcation protests early this year and where effective education and job creation programs are desperately needed, what previous programmes were implemented there and why do you believe that these new programmes are different from the previous programmes which failed so miserably?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: House Chair, I must immediately say I am not au fait with the actual programmes that were implemented in the Vembe district.

It is a matter that I would like to take advice on rather than stand here and waffle on about something that I am not well informed on.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 68 of 150 So, if you can take a rain check on that question, I will be quite happy to have it addressed, but I do need to look more closely and introspectively at all the types of programmes that were implemented in the Vembe District.

More broadly, when it comes to Vembe District – which is not different from any other district in our country in any way – the challenge of unemployment is not only in the Vembe District; it is all over the country.
Indeed, some of the programmes that we have come up with and are implementing are programmes that would be relevant to the Vembe District as they would be relevant elsewhere.

Particularly, when it comes to the youth we are focusing our attention on skilling young people.

We want to make sure that young people stay at school and get their qualifications.

What happened in the Vuwani area when 28 schools were torched was a true setback for us.
But, fortunately the Department of Basic Education has responded in a very positive way to make sure that schooling can continue albeit that it had stopped for a while.

Now, we are focussing our attention on that and we would like to resolve that problem.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 69 of 150 The other issue is that once young people stay at school – and most of those young people mostly go to no-fee schools – we want to support them.
In that area there are also Technical Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges.

We are supporting the TVET colleges and we are opening more.

We want those young people in that area to enrol at the TVET colleges and at universities.

There are two universities there and a third medical one is about to be built there.

We therefore want to focus on skills.


Those young people, having acquired skills, should, through this programme I talked about which we are crafting with the private sector, be able to get into the world of work where they will be able to either get learnerships, internships and where they will be able to learn how the world of work functions.
We find that most of those young people who get in on those programmes of learnerships, internships or further training to acquire skills that they could have learned theoretically at TVET colleges are able to be placed in more permanent jobs.

They will start off either as learners or as interns but in time once the skill of work has been learnt they can easily get jobs.

This is one of the many programmes that are available.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 70 of 150 May I add that various departments of government including Science and Technology, Public Enterprises, and Energy are involved in promoting youth employment.

They are involved and are focusing on how can we skill our young people.

The theme running through our government centres around young people, making sure that they get the skills that are required and finally, are able to get jobs.

If you ever thought that this was a waffle, it is a waffle that you are enjoying.
Thank you very much.

Prof C T MSIMANG: House Chair, I would like to add my voice to those who complemented the hon Deputy President on the plans that are going to be introduced.

However, I would like to say that, in the workplace, one needs the support of both the employer and the employee for these plans to succeed.

Now, my information is that one of the members of the tripartite alliance itself, namely Cosatu, has rejected the National Development Plan.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

The question is: How will the government persuade Cosatu to promote these beautiful plans?

I am asking this being mindful ... [Time expired.]

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The National Development Plan is an overarching plan taking us to 2030.

This plan has been broadly 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 71 of 150 accepted by the people of our country.

Looking at the plan itself and the actual components of the plan you will find that many people have no truck or argument with it.
In our interactions with Cosatu, we found that many elements of the plan are precisely what everyone would like to see being implemented to take our country forward.

Thank you very much.

Steps to ensure that members of the Executive attend all oral question sessions 14.
The Leader of the Opposition (DA) asked the Deputy President: What steps will he, as Leader of Government Business, take to ensure that all members of the Executive attend all oral question sessions in the third and fourth terms of Parliament in 2016?

NO1938E Ms H O HLOPHE: They are working very hard ...

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes!

House Chair, the Constitution provides that members of Cabinet ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

... are accountable, collectively and individually, to Parliament for 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 72 of 150 the exercise of their powers and the performance of their functions.

That is what the Constitution states very clearly.

It is for this reason that the attendance of members of the executive to their parliamentary responsibilities is regularly discussed at Cabinet meetings, as it was discussed at yesterday‘s Cabinet meeting.
As Leader of Government Business, I present a report at each Cabinet meeting on the response of members of the executive to Questions for Written Reply, as well as to their ability to come to Parliament and answer questions.

Consequently, we have seen a marked improvement in the rate of responses on Questions for Written Reply, even as the number of questions has risen quite exponentially.

In the past, fewer questions were being asked.

Now, we have more and more questions.


An HON MEMBER: And fewer answers!

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: This is one of the tasks that I execute as Leader of Government Business ... An HON MEMBER: Not very well!

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 73 of 150 The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: ... to look at the ability of members of the executive to answer questions in written form.
There have been moments when some of the members of the executive have had too many questions that they hadn‘t answered, but I can tell you right now without any equivocation that questions that members of the executive still have to answer have now reduced considerably.

This has happened through engagement that I have had with members of the executive – encouraging them, egging them on to answer the questions that had been tabled to them.

An HON MEMBER: Why don‘t you answer the question?


The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: As I said in the statement that we issued last year, I have seen great improvement amongst my colleagues as far as answering questions is concerned.

Now, this includes encouraging the availability of members of the executive to answer Questions for Oral Reply in both Houses.
Where there have been weaknesses and lapses, as Leader of Government Business, I have taken this up, addressed it with members of the executive, and found solutions to make sure that 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 74 of 150 we execute this task that we are enjoined by the Constitution of our country to execute.

An HON MEMBER: It‘s no discernable results!

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The results that people would like to see are results that, with regard to Questions for Written Reply, are really great.
You, as Members of Parliament – through you, House Chair – will have found that many members of the executive have been answering the questions that are written.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Not the Minister of Social Development!

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: When it comes to the members‘ attendance here, we have listened ...

[Interjections.]

... we have heard, and we have discussed it.

We have discussed it.


I‘d like to give members, in quite an honest way, this reply that the attendance, the issue that has been raised by Members of Parliament on all sides – may I add – not only on the opposition side but also on the governing party side, is something that we have taken to heart, and we are going to make sure that the attendance does, indeed, improve.

That is a promise that I make.

Thank you very much.

[Applause.]


1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 75 of 150 The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, I do not know whether or not to welcome that it is being discussed regularly because actually, Deputy President, I think it is time for us to take action.

This is not the first time this has happened.

The reality behind it is that this administration has avoided accountability constantly.

Whether it is the Guptas or Al- Bashir, we can carry on and list many.

These are two prime examples.


Part of the line item of the Deputy President is to say that you will meet with the leaders of opposition parties.

This also has not happened.

The other question that I would like to put to you, Deputy President, is that Minister Nosiviwe, the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans ...

The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS AND DEVELOPMENT: Mapisa-Nqakula!

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: ... has often failed to appear in this House.
When you ask her to appear, she says no, she will appear before the Joint Standing Committee on Defence, which she hasn‘t done even after you asked her to do that.

There is one fundamental question.

There is the acquisition of a private jet for R4 billion.

[Interjections.]

We have asked her the question in this House.

She simply has failed to answer.


1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 76 of 150 Now, I want to know the following from you, Deputy President: What is the South African government‘s position actually from the Presidency on the acquisition of this jet?

Because we cannot get the Minister to answer, could you please answer it for us?

I think that money would be better served for people at home who are still waiting for houses and delivery of services – asseblief, Deputy President.

Thank you very much.


The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: House Chair, I don‘t know what the question is, and I thought we were discussing specifically the question the hon the Leader of the Opposition raised in relation to attendance, in relation to answering questions ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!

Let‘s give an opportunity to the Deputy President.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: ... and in relation to accountability to Parliament.
If that is what we are addressing, I would like to repeat what I said, that the matter has been discussed ...

[Interjections.]

... and you say you don‘t know.

You should have confidence in that.

I would like to invite you, hon Maimane, to have confidence.

You are a religious man.

[Interjections.]

You 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 77 of 150 are a religious man.

Have faith.

[Interjections.]

Have faith.

[Interjections.]

It is important to practice your faith even in Parliament.

[Laughter.]
[Laughter.]

[Interjections.]

This is a time when you should.

As I have said, I have seen incredibly good performance on my colleagues‘ side in as far as answering Questions for Written Reply, and this has come about through discussion, through encouraging all of us to act and to adhere to the responsibilities we have.

This has been going extremely well.

I would like to say that, in relation to attendance, be it whoever‘s attendance, we are going to be seeing a greater level of attendance.
Let me add very quickly that many of the colleagues who have not been able to come to Parliament have always had really cogent reasons.

[Interjections.]

They have had really cogent reasons why they have not been able to come.

All members of the executive know that they have to be in Parliament, and when they have failed to do so, they have always had cogent reasons.

This matter has been raised by all sides of our Parliament, and we have heard.

It is going to be addressed.


Coming to the matter that the hon Maimane raises ... 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 78 of 150 An HON MEMBER: Yes!

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: ... and which he correctly says is in the purview of the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, it is a matter that the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans will be able, during her question time ...

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: She doesn‘t.

That‘s the point!
That‘s the point!

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In her question time, she will be able to address this matter.

[Interjections.]

There are quite a number of issues that she would like to communicate to Parliament in relation to this.

Also, the sensational reports that had been bandied around, she wants to have an opportunity to address precisely this matter.

[Interjections.]

So, she will come and address it herself.

Thank you very much.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: When?

She doesn‘t come.
She doesn‘t come.

That‘s the point!

Ms B L ABRAHAMS: Chairperson, through you to the hon Deputy President: Thank you very much for a very comprehensive reply.

[Interjections.]

We have full confidence that you will implement the regulations of Parliament and the Rules of Parliament.

We 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 79 of 150 have absolutely no doubt that you will do that.

[Interjections.]

Our members of the executive are generally very serious about their accountability to Parliament ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

... both in terms of Questions for Written Reply and Questions for Oral Reply.

Where challenges arise, we should identify and correct it, rather than complain.

My question to you is the following: What additional parliamentary tools will be utilised to make sure that the third and fourth terms will be better?

Thank you.

An HON MEMBER: Chuck the President!

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: House Chair, I would like to thank the hon member.
I think we would like to see this Parliament – and indeed the next Parliament – being a Parliament where we are able to get all of us to play our role.

Be it members of the executive in terms of executing their constitutional duties and responsibilities, in terms of attendance, in terms of doing their work and answering questions, that is something that we would like to see.
The Rules of Parliament have now been amended to have an even greater focus on members in as far as executing their tasks is 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 80 of 150 concerned.

We will want to abide by that.


We just hope that all Members of Parliament will be able to rise up to the challenge to make this Parliament a House of really robust debate, a House where there are less or no insults at all, where we are able to exchange views intellectually, are able to sharpen our wits, and are able to see where a good point is coming from – even the opposition – and on the governing party‘s side be humble and brave enough to recognise a good point and indicate that it would be taken up.
That is the type of Parliament that I would like to see.

When I said hon Shivambu is a clever man, I meant it.

Hon Malema thinks I was being facetious or patronising.

I meant it because we expect that all members – and, at times, hon Shivambu comes up with really great propositions and really good ideas.

Those good ideas are best articulated with fewer insults, less rowdiness, and in a forthright manner so that they can be taken up.

This House owes a responsibility to the people of our country.
We need to be the House of debate; we need to be the House that observes Rules.

Yes, Rules must be observed by all – members of the executive, as well as Members of Parliament itself.

Let us all rise to the occasion and be true and proper Members of 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 81 of 150 Parliament that the people of South Africa can be proud of.

Thank you very much.

[Applause.]

Me E N LOUW: Voorsitter, deur u aan Adjunkpresident Ramaphosa: In u Kabinet het u Ministers wat nooit opdaag vir vraesessies nie.
Twee van hierdie Ministers is mnr Rob Davies en mej Angie Motshekga.

Altans, hulle is slegs vandag teenwoordig omdat u hier is.

[Tussenwerpsels.]

AGB LEDE: Ja!

Me E N LOUW: Het u enige dissiplinêre aksie ingestel teen hierdie Ministers?

Het u ook deur hierdie dissiplinêre aksie gesorg dat wanneer hulle vrae kom beantwoord in hierdie Parlement, hulle daardie vrae opreg beantwoord en met die antwoord wat die vrae verdien?

(Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)


[Ms E N LOUW: Chairperson, through you to Deputy President Ramaphosa: In your Cabinet you have Ministers who never pitch for question sessions.

Two of these Ministers are Mr Rob Davies and Miss Angie Motshekga.

They are only present today, because you are here.

[Interjections.]

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 82 of 150 HON MEMBERS: Yes!

Ms E N LOUW: Have you taken any disciplinary action against these Ministers?
Have you also ensured, by means of these disciplinary actions, that when they come and answer questions in this Parliament, they answer those questions honestly and with the answers that the questions deserve?]

Have you also ensured, during those disciplinary hearings, that your Ministers do not arrive here late, patronise us, and give us waffled answers, like you have done today?

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Voorsitter, vir ‘n minuut het ek gedink dat die lid nou ‘n baie mooi voorstel op die tafel gaan plaas ... [Chairperson, for a minute I thought that the member was about to move a very nice motion now...] ... but unfortunately she came up with an insult at the end.

However, let me say the following ...

[Interjections.]

... no, let me say the following: The question is whether I have either discussed, disciplined, and so forth, members.
The key answer that I have given I gave at the beginning.

I said we have heard what Members of Parliament are saying.

We have heard.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 83 of 150 Ons het baie mooi geluister.

Ek het baie mooi geluister.

[We have listened very carefully.

I have listened very carefully.]

After ―luistering‖ [listening] ...

[Laughter.]

... after ―luistering‖ [listening] ... Jy moet nou baie mooi luister.

Nadat ek geluister het ... [You must listen very carefully now.
After I listened... ] After ―luistering‖ [listening] ... ... het ek die tyd geneem om met my kollegas te praat.

[...

I took the time to speak to my colleagues.]

We‘ve discussed this matter.

We have discussed it thoroughly, and we have said that Members of Parliament ... ... as jy nou mooi luister.

Ek dink nie jy luister nou nie.

[Tussenwerpsels.]

[... if you listen carefully.

I do not think you are listening now.

[Interjections.]]

We said Members of Parliament have raised the concern.
This concern has been raised on both sides – on both the opposition side and the governing party side.

So, this matter cannot just be dismissed.

We cannot play politics about this matter.

It is a 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 84 of 150 matter of great concern.

I even went on to say that I have, on occasion, come to Parliament, and I have found quite a number of the front benches and the second row empty, as you have raised the matter.
So, the issue that you have raised has been heard and has also been raised with our colleagues.

I would like us to watch this space.

Before we come up with the hard disciplinary measures that Mr Maimane suggested, which you are also seeking to see happen, let us watch this space.

I am absolutely certain, as I saw with the response to Questions for Written Reply, there is going to be greater performance when it comes to attendance and presence in Parliament.

So, let us watch this space, all of us.


Baie dankie.

[Thank you very much.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chair, through you to the Deputy President: Thank you very much for your answer, and I am glad you take this matter as seriously as we do.

Deputy President, you would agree that as the Leader of Government Business, this matter of attendance has been raised with you repeatedly over the term of the Fifth Parliament.
It is very clear that people are starting to wonder if your Office is 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 85 of 150 not the SuperMax of government because much like those packets you were waving around in the House earlier, you are protecting the executive from their parliamentary accountability.

[Laughter.]

Yes, except your Max leaves a very bitter taste in one‘s mouth when Ministers don‘t attend.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

Allow me to say that it is very clear that your discussions with the Ministers are not working, and we have serial offenders like Minister Davies, Minister Bathabile Dlamini, and Minister Motshekga who just simply miss back-to-back question sessions and miss their constitutional obligation to account to this House.

I would like to put a suggestion before you today, seeing that you are in the mood for suggestions.
Would your Office consider financial sanctions for Ministers who do not attend their oral question sessions in the House?

So, if they are not going to listen to your words, perhaps if you hit them in their pockets, they may take heed a lot quicker.

Thank you.

[Applause.]

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: House Chair, I would like to thank the hon Steenhuisen.
As I was saying, we have heard, and we have discussed this matter, and I would like to get the opportunity to make sure that what we are putting in place now is given an opportunity and a chance to work.

Before we get to the type of 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 86 of 150 measures that hon Maimane was suggesting and what hon Steehuisen is suggesting, I would like that we make sure that the attendance, as we have seen with the Questions for Written Reply, improves.
I have no doubt in my mind that it is going to improve.

However, similarly, I have heard what hon Steenhuisen is saying, and my own approach now is to say let us proceed with what I have said here.

I have spoken to members of the executive, and it is going to get better.

Thank you very much.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon Deputy President.

Hon members, that concludes questions to the Deputy President.

I thank the hon Deputy President.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon member.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Thank you very much.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Why are you rising, hon member?

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 87 of 150 Mr N L S KWANKWA: I rise in terms of Rule 137(10)(a) and Rule 138 subsection 4.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes?

Mr N L S KWANKWA: This concerns a matter that was raised by the hon Steenhuisen yesterday.
Minister Shabangu was in the House and had to attend to questions that were asked of the Minister in the Office of the President, Minister Radebe.

The issue at the time was that there was no communication to this House about the absence of Minister Radebe.

Now the reason I am raising this issue is because the presiding officer at the time promised the House that she was going to come back to us about the reasons Minister Radebe‘s absence was not communicated to this House.

That did not happen yesterday.


I intended to raise this matter before the House adjourned yesterday but it was adjourned while I was still on my feet trying to raise a point of order.

The point I am trying to make is: Why I am stating these rules, House Chair ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Can you get to the point, hon member?

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 88 of 150 Mr N L S KWANKWA: I am going to get to the point, House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, but I didn‘t give you an opportunity to make a speech.

Just say what the issue is, please.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: I am not making a speech.

This matter is related to what the Deputy President was talking about here.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): But do you realise that we have concluded Questions for today?

Mr N L S KWANKWA: No, I am not asking a question of the Deputy President.

Can you allow me to finish, please?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Get to the point, please.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Yes.

The issue here is: Rule 138 subsection 4 does not make it obligatory for Ministers to inform Parliament when they are not going to be able to make it to a session.

Right?

It only says, if a Minister is not able to make it they 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 89 of 150 can just tell a colleague.

So it means it can be treated casually.


However, if you look at Rule 137(10)(a), then, to a certain extent, this Rule makes it obligatory for a Member of Parliament, say during an oral session, if a Member of Parliament has a Question on the Order Paper, they have to inform the presiding officers.
Now, in trying to resolve this issue about attendance, we have to make sure that we put a system in place to deal with how we communicate with Parliament when Ministers are not able to make it to Parliament so that we comply fully and properly with section 92 subsections (2) and (3) of the Constitution in terms of holding government Ministers and the executive accountable.

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon member.
You will recall that there was a lengthy discussion on this matter in the programming committee meeting of this morning.

The matter that you raise in terms of the Rules is surely a matter on which you must make a submission to review the Rules to your party as well to the subcommittee.

The Rules that we are currently applying are the new Rules that were adopted just before we rose for the elections.
I think yours is an input that 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 90 of 150 should go for broader discussion in the subcommittee on the review of the Rules so that there can be proper discussions and further consultation on it.

I must also indicate to the House that we do receive regular reports from the Leader of Government Business on the absence of members who are not members of the Executive, who will not be in the House and whether the Deputy Minister or another Minister will take those follow-up questions.
I am quite sure that we will continue with that practice so that everybody is informed of the exact availability or non-availability of members of the Executive for specific afternoon questions before the Question Session starts in the afternoon.

Thank you, hon member.

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.
MOTION OF CONDOLENCE (The late Dr Makhenkesi Stofile) The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the House - 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 91 of 150 (1) notes with great sadness the passing of the African National Congress veteran and stalwart, Dr Makhenkesi Stofile, on 15 August 2016; (2) further notes that at the time of his passing, he was serving as the Chancellor of the University of Fort Hare, and that he had recently returned from a diplomatic posting as South Africa's Ambassador to Germany; (3) remembers that Dr Makhenkesi Stofile joined the ANC in 1958 and became a symbol of solidarity, loyalty and discipline; (4) further remembers that he was arrested in 1986 and served an 11-year sentence for terrorism under the then Ciskean Internal Security Act; (5) recalls that he was elected to the national executive of the United Democratic Front, UDF, as the Regional Secretary between 1983 and 1986, and was responsible for the establishment of the UDF in the Border region; 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 92 of 150 (6) further recalls that Dr Stofile was the first ANC Chief Whip following the democratic elections in 1994, served as the Provincial Chairperson of the ANC in the Eastern Cape in 1996, and later, he was appointed as the Premier of the Eastern Cape in 1997; (7) recognises that he was also deployed as Minister of Sport and Recreation between 2004 and 2010 and was a member of the Board of Directors of the 2010 Fifa World Cup Local Organising Committee; (8) further recognises that he held a number of presidential roles for sporting bodies, and led from the front in the campaign for nonracial sport and was a committed supporter of antidoping in sport; (9) believes that he made an immeasurable contribution to the liberation of South Africa through politics and sports; (10) further believes that he was a distinguished freedom fighter and a dedicated servant of the people; and 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 93 of 150 (11) conveys its deepest condolences to his family, friends, relatives and the ANC during this painful and difficult time.
CONDOLENCES FOR REV M A STOFILE, FORMER MINISTER OF SPORTS AND RECREATION Mr M S MALATSI: Hon members, let me start by expressing the DA‘s deepest condolences to Reverend Stofile‘s family, his friends and to our colleagues in the ANC.

We hope that his legacy will inspire all of us to uphold our responsibilities for public service with distinction.

The loss of any struggle stalwart is not only a loss for the organisation but is also a loss for the whole country and, in this case, also a loss for sport.
I personally never had the privilege of working with the former Minister in this portfolio nor did I meet him.

But, like any leader of good deeds his good work in sports transcended generations.

It was his activism for nonracialism in sport that made him a unifying figure in the sports community, even if it was unpopular to do so.

He was ultimately the athlete‘s sports leader, not the self-serving fat cats that run sports today.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 94 of 150 In preparing my speech for today I spoke to my colleague and former member of the Portfolio Mommittee on Sport, Donald Lee, who worked with the late Minister in his previous terms.

The anecdotes that Donald Lee shared with me indicate that the former Minister respected Parliamentary obligations, unlike many Ministers in this House today.
He appeared before the portfolio committee every time he was summoned to do so without offering any of the excuses that some members of the front benches have recently mastered.

He answered Parliamentary questions promptly and openly without any of the prevaricating trickery of the incumbent.
But over and beyond this, what Donald Lee shared with me was that, despite the robust engagement, the Minister never called opposition MPs or his critics names when they asked difficult questions, because he truly understood the terms of robust engagement.

In an era of arrogant sports leaders, Reverend Stofile was a rare self-serving leader.

He did his job effectively without the spectacle of spin that some of the current Ministers use to hide their ineptitude.
He was a Minister of substance, not one burdened with the intellectual emptiness found in some of those who occupy the benches of Cabinet.

His conduct on and off camera was exemplary and of the highest standards of ethical leadership.

He never 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 95 of 150 trolled our national teams for poor performance in competitions.

As someone who played and coached sport at amateur level, he understood that winning and losing are part of the game.
He was very magnanimous towards Bafana Bafana when they crashed out of the 2010 World Cup group stages despite being the hosts.

He said at the time, ―We are of course not happy with the fact that we didn‘t proceed to the next round, but we are equally proud of our boys.‖ That, for me, is the true measure of a mature political leader.

Contrast that with the infamous ―bunch of losers‖ own goal scored by the incumbent and you‘ll appreciate how a good statesman can make a difference in a portfolio.
Ultimately, sport is about changing lives positively.

It is about giving young people opportunities to play whichever sporting code they choose and providing them with the best facilities to polish their skills.

It is about rewarding athletes who perform consistently with fair opportunities and, equally so, so that they can represent their country with pride.
If we can achieve this — and here I will paraphrase the Minister — then we will end the myth that black people can only play certain sports because they are black.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 96 of 150 Finally, I would like to conclude with what my former colleague Donald Lee asked me to share with the House.
Despite their very robust engagements in the portfolio committee, Donald Lee said he had such a cordial relationship with the Minister that, when he was hospitalised, Rev Stofile was one of the few members of the ruling party who regularly checked on his wellbeing, even visiting him at his home after he was discharged from hospital.
I think all of this speaks what the Deputy President mentioned earlier, that we can have robust engagements that are cordial but that it is equally incumbent on the executive to lead by example at all times because members on this side are more than happy to hold that flag at all times.

Thank you, hon House Chair.

Mr J S MALEMA: Hon House Chair, we want to send our condolences to the Stofile family and to the ANC.

‗Bra Stof‘ was one of the most fearless leaders of our struggle.
Some of us had an opportunity to serve with him in the National Working Committee and the National Executive Committee, NEC, of the ANC.

He always spoke truth to power, and he was never scared to confront the shenanigans of President Zuma.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 97 of 150 He didn‘t do this in the press conferences.

He told the man directly about how he feels.


He was never one of those people who were begging because they thought they would be promoted if they pretend that they are comfortable with the status quo.

Even when we were in the youth league, ‗Bra Stof‘ was never an ageist.

It didn‘t matter how old he was; we called him ‗Bra Stof‘.
And many of the old people of the ANC who are ageists can learn from him - people like hon Nqakula, who throws his credentials around and reminding people that he was an MK member.

That was never ‗Bra Stof‘.

When you disagreed with him, he never reminded you of his credentials and he being an MK soldier and how many guns he carried because he knew that he can convince you even without having to remind you who he was and what are his struggle credentials.
He never hesitated to stand with the youth league even on controversial issues because he would say how can an old person not stand with young people on such issues.

We knew he was a reliable force at all times when we went into ANC‘s difficult meetings.

One of the old people we relied on was ‗Bra Stof‘ because, old as he was, he was alive to the dynamics of the day and never judged the input of the youth based on their age.
Now, Sipho Pityana used a relevant platform to remind us of who ‗Bra 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 98 of 150 Stof‘ was.

I heard some people saying it was not a relevant platform.

A funeral of a politician is always used as umvuselelo [revival.].
We remind ourselves of who we are and remind ourselves of who this person was and what he stood for and whether we who are remaining behind are living to the expectation of the departed and therefore, we think that Sipho Pityana raised important issues at a relevant platform because ‗Bra Stof‘ would have said the same thing.

When Sipho Pityana spoke, some of us nearly dropped a tear because he spoke the real truth.
He might be representing factions in the ANC - that might be an unfortunate thing - but even if he represents factions, the truth remains, he will never falter.

We are with him because he did not misrepresent who ‗Bra Stof‘ was.

‗Bra Stof‘ was exactly what Sipho Pityana was on that day and we thought we must come here to remind all of you that please listen to Sipho Pityana.

I didn‘t hear you here acknowledging the family of ‗Bra Stof‘.

Here we are remembering ‗Bra Stof‘ and his family is not here.
It is the same family that rejected President Zuma.

If Zuma had attended that memorial service, it was going to be a distortion of who ‗Bra Stof‘ was.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 99 of 150 I salute that family for rejecting a man who disrespected the Constitution; a man who disrespected ‗Bra Stof‘; a man who disrespected what ‗Bra Stof‘ stood for ... [Time expired.]

... a man who destroyed the legacy of the generation of ‗Bra Stof‘ singlehandedly.

Rest in peace ‗Bra Stof‘; we will continue the fight.
Thank you.

Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Hon House Chair, His Excellency, our hon Deputy President, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, hon members, when I received news of the passing of Reverend Makhenkesi Stofile, I thought immediately of his beloved wife.

How painful this loss has been for Mrs Nambitha Stofile.

It is always the family that is mostly affected, yet their grieving is done quietly, while our own is broadcasted in newspapers, on the radio and here in Parliament.
Let us therefore use these public platforms to honour not only the memory of a great leader, but the sorrow of a family.

I had the privilege of serving in our first democratic Parliament with the hon Reverend Stofile.

We entered the Government of National Unity in 1994 determined to serve our country and strengthen our fledgling democracy.
I remember that he served as Chief Whip of the majority party, the ANC, while I was the Minister of Home Affairs, and we worked well together as 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 100 of 150 colleagues in the National Assembly and at once, one could see that the man was actually a very humble servant of the Lord.

When President Mbeki appointed him as Minister of Sports and Recreation in 2004, I congratulated him, knowing that his experience in governance as Premier of the Eastern Cape would stand him in good stead.
Minister Stofile was well educated and a man of faith.

It therefore didn‘t surprise me that he continued to distinguish himself, after leaving Cabinet, in the international arena.

I felt a sense of satisfaction earlier this year when Reverend Stofile was appointed Chancellor of the University of Fort Hare.
For years he had teased me, calling me his father-in-law, because Mrs Nambitha Stofile‗s father and I were at Fort Hare together - not only that we were very close, in fact we graduated on the very same day.

I am proud that my friend‘s son- in-law eventually served as chancellor of our alma mater.

Reverend Stofile fulfilled his commitment to serve South Africa.

He will be remembered as one of that first generation of democratic leaders who fought to protect all that we had gained.
Our nation owes him a debt of gratitude.

He was a man of integrity and great patriotism.

We will miss the good reverend.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 101 of 150 On behalf of the IFP and my own family, I extend my condolences to Mrs Stofile and her family, and to his mother.

My sympathies also go to the University of Fort Hare, to the party he served - the ANC, with such commitment, and to many who, like us, are mourning his loss.

May our former Minister rest in peace.

A robale ka kgotso.
A robale ka kgotso.

[May he rest in peace.]

Mr M S MABIKA: Hon House Chair, members of the honourable House, the late Reverend Makhenkesi Stofile was a man of many talents who has left a huge footprint on the political landscape in South Africa.

He was an esteemed erudite scholar, a devoted man of God, a committed political activist, a very capable sport administrator and above all, a loving family man.
As the NFP we extend our sincere condolences to his bereaved family who are coming to terms with the loss of a husband and father, and to the ANC who have lost a loyal cadre.

We pray that you will find solace and comfort in the knowledge that South Africa has benefited immensely from his contribution towards our democracy, and that his legacy will live on the memories of all who had been touched by his generosity and commitment to a 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 102 of 150 better South Africa for all.
May his soul rest in everlasting peace.

I thank you.

Mr M L W FILTANE: Hon Speaker, I protested when the Deputy President wanted to leave the House when I am going to the floor.

Today, we pay a well-deserved tribute to a great son and servant of our people, whose remains were laid to rest by thousands of South Africans, seven days ago.

Oom Stof dedicated his entire life to the people of South Africa.
As an academic, he imparted huge volumes of knowledge, skill and expertise to all those who crossed his path, both formally and informally.

As a politician, a freedom fighter and a religious leader, he dedicated his life to the service of the people, in particular the poor and vulnerable, who are locked in the far outskirts of the rural hinterland.
In the world of sport and as a dedicated sports practitioner, he fought tirelessly for the integration and total transformation of this important sector for the benefit of all South Africans.

I know his foot tracks as I personally experienced this when I was the President of the Transkei Rugby Union.

He was an embodiment of the caliber of leaders that is desperately needed 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 103 of 150 today in order to drive the nations to propel the transformation agenda to greater heights.
His outstanding work as the first Chief Whip of our democratic Parliament bears fruits today.

As a straight talker, he certainly laid firm bases for the acknowledgement and respect of the regulatory framework that governs all stakeholders of this House.

Indeed, Oom Stof made a great contribution, not only to the attainment of our constitutional democracy, but also to the deepening and consolidation of democratic values and systems.
His outstanding moral integrity, great sense of love, loyalty to the nation, humility and upholding the values of unity and selfless service to the most vulnerable communities, is a lesson that all leaders should emulate.

He may be dead and buried, but his footsteps will never dry up, for we owe him an indelible debt of gratitude.

Kumfazi wakhe usisi Nambitha, kubantwana bakhe, kwisizwe sooThahla nooDlangamandla, nathi sithi masitsho ukuba akuhlanga lungehliyo, thuthuzelekani.
Linxeba lesizwe eli lophayo, ngxe.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 104 of 150 Lala ngoxolo Thahla kaNdayeli, olwakho ugqatso ulufezile.

Enkosi.

[Kwaqhwatywa.]

(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[To his wife, sisi Nambitha, to his children, to Thahla and Dlangamandla families, let us convey our condolences.

May you be solaced.

This pain is for the whole nation, be strong.

Rest in Peace Thahla kaNdayeli, your journey came to an end.

Thank you.

[Applause.]]


Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon House Chair, unfortunately I lost my reading spectacles.

So, I am going to have it difficult to read today.

As AIC, we convey our heartfelt condolences to the family of the late Reverend Stofile.

The loss that the family has suffered is also our loss.

Comrade Stofile was a man of integrity.

He was honest, always determined, transparent and accountable.

He was a great leader, a sportsman, a coach, a priest, a politician and loved his people.
His leadership qualities will always remain as a good example to many.

He contributed a lot to the freedom of this country.

Therefore, the words of William Shakespeare do not apply here, and I quote: The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 105 of 150 So, let it not be with Comrade Stofile.

So, these words now do not apply.

We should remember him for the good that he did for the country.

However, he could not have lived forever.


Death is a necessary end.

It‘s just a contract that is not renewable.

Family members of Stofile should know very well that they are not alone in this suffering, be comforted and feel good.

We should always remember this great man of Africa.

He did a lot for the country.

May his soul rest in peace.

I thank you.

[Applause.]


Mr L R MBINDA: Hon Chair, let me take this opportunity on behalf of the PAC to convey our heartfelt condolences to the people of this country, friends, comrades and the family of the late comrade Makhenkesi Stofile.

It is time of death when human beings come to their senses and begin to define the life and our purpose of existence.
Comrade Stofile‘s name has always been a familiar one around the circles of activism in the country, including in the early 80‘s during the time of the UDF.

He worked with comrade Hintsa Siwisa 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 106 of 150 and many others.

My personal encounter with the late was during his Fort Hare University days when political fighting between the PAC student wing and the ANC student wing were rife.
At a time we met, there was a few of our Pan Africanist Student Organisation, Paso, comrades who were shot allegedly by the ANC comrades organised by the late.

Even in this trying time filled with anger and rivalry, he remained the man that everyone here is describing him to be, hence we were able to overcome the challenges we faced at that time, despite the casualties that we both incurred.
When comrade Stofile was appointed Premier of the Eastern Cape, we once worked in the same cycles as I was a Deputy Chair of the PAC in the Eastern Cape under Mkabile.

One other contribution he made to the PAC that I think is worth mentioning is when he assisted us with securing the release of a considerable number of our ex-Azanian People‘s Liberation Army, Apla, comrades against the lack of political will from his organisation.
With his assistance, we managed to help a number of our comrades to reunite with their families.

The late conversation we had for more than an hour, it was before the death of Mr Makwetu, when Comrade Stofile made a request to senior cadres of the PAC to accompany him because he 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 107 of 150 wanted to visit him when he was too ill. Our arrangements, of course were outpaced by the passing of comrade Makwetu before we could see him.
It was also comrade Stofile who even advised me that we must request a state funeral for Mr Makwetu.

He even assured me that he will talk to his comrades in government.

Comrade Stofile also told me that he regrets recommending the tracking device that is given, more specially to politicians as it was his recommendation to government because he got that from Germany.

Thank you.

[Time expired] Mr N SINGH: House Chair, I rise on a point of order and sorry to distract the hon Minister.
I know this is quite a serious debate.

On my screen here I notice the photograph of a lovely lady with black hair.

I am not saying the hon Minister is not a lovely lady but I think they need to correct the picture on the screen here.

The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: House Chair, I am honoured on behalf of the ANC and on behalf in particular of the thousands of uMkhonto we Sizwe cadres who had the opportunity to be visited by the late, Rev Makhenkesi Stofile in the camps.
I stand here with pride and say I was one of those cadres that had 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 108 of 150 to listen to him and hear him speak about where the struggle in South Africa was when we in the camps were dying to also go back home.

Today, we honour homage to a great life lived with no inhibitions and no pretensions.

His love for the truth set him on an arduous road to a Christian calling and priesthood, as minister in the Presbyterian Church.
And in time his love for the truth would merge with his love for is people.

It would set him on a dangerous path that led him to joining the ANC and working tirelessly with its many internal structures, including the United Democratic Front, UDF, which he helped to establish in 1983.

His love for sport sent him on rugby fields as a scrumhalf at an early age, and later to graduate as an accomplished rugby administrator.

A position he used to effectively fight racism in sports.
As a lecturer, teacher and scholar, Rev Stofile was able to live his life through his ideas, empowering his students with truth and truth-seeking tools of analysis and this we also saw when he was a Chancellor who at the time that he past on, he was doing exactly that.

Many of our generation owe our understanding and the places we occupy to his determination to impart knowledge.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 109 of 150 A life lived with such great intensity and haste in all its attainments of human endeavour does not lend itself to a simple tribute.

A life richly lived after distinguishing itself beyond the many measures of mankind in itself is a great story, a great lesson and a great symbol to cherish and behold.
Rev Stofile‘s quest for ensuring better governance and delivery on the promises made to his people saw him accepting the honour to serve as a Premier of the Eastern Cape, a position he held with distinction.

The ANC‘s faith and confidence in him allowed them to entrust the safeguard of its finances to him, a task he performed with distinction.

What more could we ask of him?

What more assignments could we put of his broad shoulders that he could not perform?
He started his time in the democratic dispensation as the Chief Whip of the ANC, a very difficult time for us all.

We had to adjust to the norms and decorum of Parliament and adjust to living out our commitment to the liberation struggle in everything we did in Parliament.
Very often, because Parliament had not contemplated people like us, he bore the brunt of our frustrations, even our anger of having only one toilet to cater for all women here, something that today is taken for granted - 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 110 of 150 this is what we found in this House.

Our anger at Parliament, for not having facilities for those who had young children; our anger over the fact that the definition of Parliament, for example, over family, did not apply to us as African people.
The list is endless and he absorbed all those frustrations and solved them.

He was a man who could listen and empathise with everyone‘s situation.

The queues in front of his office were very long and we do not know how he was able to balance his responsibilities of looking after his family and being a Chief Whip.

We loved him dearly and he was able to give back that love in abundance.
He had the ability to make each of us feel very special to him, and at times instill the kind of discipline that the struggle had forged in him.

He bore the scars of his years in prison with grace.

At his funeral it was heartbreaking to hear the story of his neighbours, of how the apartheid state brutalised his family.

Working as Chief Whip, with whips of other parties, you would never know what he had had to go through.

Rev Stofile was a disciplined cadre of the ANC.


This meant that within two years of relocating to Cape Town as Chief Whip, he was requested by the ANC to return to the Eastern Cape to become 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 111 of 150 the Premier of that province; a position he held with dignity and serving with distinction, while at the same time conducting his responsibilities as Treasurer-General of the ANC.

In one life, he lived many others.

He was illustrious and exemplary in many respects.


Of all the defining features of his life was his utter humility.

There was no air of pomp and superiority about him.

He was a down to earth and salt-of-the- earth kind of human being.

It was this humility that made him a great willing servant of the people.

It was this humility that forged him to lasting relations with his students, friends, fellow comrades, diplomats and fellow worshippers.
He was painstaking in his work, courteous in his demeanour and frank and open in the expression of his views.

He was a public servant of note and an accomplished administrator.

We are told that at his funeral he was not such an inspirational preacher.

In fact, he was called a lousy preacher with a monotonous voice, but a man of deep profound belief.

For him, it was the message, not the delivery.


He replaced charisma with conviction and truth, he replaced populism with determination, and he replaced pomp with devotion and timeless affinity to the 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 112 of 150 struggle for freedom.

The essence of his life came from a profound conviction of a necessity and legitimacy to justice and freedom for all.

His leadership was infectious that permeated and influenced many people.
Our remarkable things about Stofile, is his ability to learn from the people.

He spent a great deal of time listening to them, interacting and trying to find solutions to the many challenges that confronted us.

Even his political life, the ANC, especially during his tenure as Premier of the Eastern Cape, he spent more time interacting with the branches of the ANC.
He was the man on the ground and followed to the latter every politically important message of linking, understanding and staying with the masses.

He remained humble till the end, refusing to succumb to glamour of office or station in life.

Shakespeare is reputed to have said ―some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them‖.

Rev achieved greatness but refused to be intoxicated by it.
Within the last few weeks of his life, he came face to face with his own mortality.

He was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and he called for more to come to him in hospital and enjoyed what 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 113 of 150 to expect of his period of his life, because my own brother had died of pancreatic cancer years ago.
After a brief discussion on the matter, he indicated to me that he was not ready to die because he had so much to live for; he had so much he thought he needed to fix, he had so much love to give, and so many people to thank.

He has left such a huge imprint on the canvas of our political landscape that it is nearly impossible to give credit to this humble giant of the struggle in the time allocated to me.
But, in closing, far beyond what was captured by the media around his death is the simple fact that he loved the people of this country and if he had had the time he would have spent the rest of his life telling them how much he had loved them and how grateful he was, he had the opportunity to lead the country into new dispensation.

Lizalis‘ idinga lakho, Thixo Nkosi yenyaniso!

Zonke iintlanga zonk‘ izizwe, mazizuze usindiso.

Bona izwe lakowethu ... [Fulfil your promise, faithful God!
All races, all nations, must be saved.

Look at our world ...] I thank you.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 114 of 150 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon members, that concludes the speaker‘s list on this matter.

I take it that there are no objections to the motion to being adopted.

Motion adopted.

Will members please rise to observe a moment of silence in memory of Dr Makhenkesi Arnold Stofile?

May we be seated?

The presiding officers associate themselves with the motion.
The condolences of the House will be conveyed to the Stofile family.

Hon members, as you can see on your Order Paper, we were supposed to have motions without notice, member statements and motions.

Earlier today, the National Assembly Programme Committee unanimously agreed in term of Rule 208(e) that there will be no motions without notice today.

This is meant to enable the Rules Committee on Tuesday next week to consider the concerns that arose in relation to motion without notice.
I am sure that all parties were informed of this decision by the Programme Committee.

We now move to the Member Statements.

EASTERN CAPE COMMUNITY GETS DAIRY PARLOUR AND CATTLE (Member‘s Statement) Mrs V BAM-MUGWANYA (ANC): The ANC commends the building of the state-of-the-art dairy parlour, which stands to benefit about 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 115 of 150 400 households in Mantusini, near Port St Johns, in the Eastern Cape.
This project forms part of the department‘s One Household One Hectare programme, through which households are allocated a one hectare portion of land to produce crops.

This project is aimed at eradicating poverty and creating smallholder farmers, producers and agro-manufacturers, and it targets state-owned and traditional communal land.

Beneficiaries can plant and produce vegetables on state-allocated hectares of land and the harvest is reaped to restore food security.
Each household will also receive two dairy cattle, which will contribute to the production of dairy products.

The cattle will help to sustain the dairy parlour.

The ANC views this project as in line with its policy of continuing to invest more in rural development through further implementation of Comprehensive Rural Development Programme, which focuses primarily on the provision of social and economic rural infrastructure.

This project should be extended to other rural areas.

I thank you.
I thank you.

SITUATION AT ESKOM REMAINS HUGELY WORRYING AND HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 116 of 150 (Member‘s Statement) Ms N W A MAZZONE (DA): House Chair, when Eskom appeared before the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises yesterday, they told us that they were now in a situation that energy supply could be regarded as stable.
This raised important questions, including why then the rushed nuclear site program, bypassing the correct gazetting procedures, and why the insistence that nuclear was the only other option.

Eskom also gave no clear explanation for refusing to engage with independent power producers.
Given attempts by President Jacob Zuma to capture our state- owned entities, SOEs, Gupta family linked companies have become the source of much concern after the awarding of contracts by Eskom worth millions, if not billions of rands.

Even more worrying were the utterances made by Eskom CEO, Brian Molefe, regarding his relationship with the Gupta family.
I quote: I have met them and actually, when I look at them, I don‘t think there is anything wrong with them When there is turmoil and serious uncertainty, when companies are pulling out of the South African economy due to obvious 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 117 of 150 patronage and when lending to state-owned entities is drying up, it is no joking matter.
We now look to Minister Lynn Browne to come out of hiding and take control of state-owned entities: To give positive assurances to the country that no family, no member of government, and no one will ever be able to control a state- owned entities for the benefit of anyone other than for the people of South Africa.
UNSPEAKABLE TREATMENT OF EFF COUNCILLORS (Member‘s Statement) Ms H O HLOPHE (EFF): House Chair, the EFF notes the unspeakable treatment of EFF Councillors in Mbizana Municipality, Engcobo Municipality, King Sabata Dalindyebo Municipality, Ingquza Hill Municipality, O R Tambo District Municipality and other councils in the Eastern Cape who were removed from the council for wearing workers‘ uniform.
The security guards of Mbizana Municipality assaulted, humiliated and removed 90-year old EFF Councillor, Tata Mthuthuzeli Specman, from chambers.

Aninamahloni ANC!

[ANC, you have no shame!]

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 118 of 150 A father, a grandfather, a great grandfather and a respectable leader of the community!

Shame on you ANC!
Shame on you ANC!

In Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality, a newly elected council speaker, Alfred Mtsi, called law enforcement officers - some carrying guns - to remove EFF councillors from chambers.

EFF councillors were asked to leave the chamber because their overhauls and helmets were not formal clothing as required by the council rules, which is not true.

Yet, the rules do not specify which items are formal and which ones are not formal.
The elected speakers in various municipalities witnessed how the Speaker and Presiding Officers here in this Parliament assaulted members of the EFF, called police and bouncers to remove us, while we are not here as per your invite but voted in by EFF members.

So, weekend-special Minister, you must attend to this matter before the EFF attends to these people of yours in those municipalities.

[Time expired.]
[Time expired.]

SOUTH AFRICA STANDS TO GET 163 SEXUAL OFFENCE COURTROOMS (Member‘s Statement) 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 119 of 150 Ms D P MANANA (ANC): The ANC welcomes the commitment by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development in opening 163 sexual offences courtrooms countrywide.

This demonstrates the seriousness of our government in bringing access to justice.

The upgrading of regional courts into sexual offences courts is progressing very well.
The ministerial task team that was established in 2013 to consider the adjudication of sexual offences stipulated that the department should establish 57 such courts by 2016.

This is phase one of the sexual offences courts projects and the 2nd phase should see 106 regional courts becoming sexual offences courts.

By 2017-2018 the department will have 163 sexual offences courtroom operating.
Some of the most common queries that are entertained in these courtrooms include child maintenance and the administration of estates.

The domestic violence and sexual violence on campuses is on the agenda.

The ANC commends the role played by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development in educating and empowering women, especially in rural areas, about justice services and procedures.

These courts will spread over rural, semiurban and urban communities.

[Time expired.]

I thank you.


[Applause.]

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 120 of 150 FUNDING FOR STATE-OWNED ENTERPRISES (Member‘s Statement) Mr N SINGH (IFP): Hon Chairperson, it is no wonder that Futuregrowth Asset Management has decided not to provide further funding to some state-owned enterprises.

The oversight and control of SOEs by government leaves a great deal to be desired.
It would seem however that there is now a scramble within government for control of SOEs, and by this I am referring to President Zuma‘s recent Cabinet Lekgotla, where the President announce that he will chair a new Presidential state-owned entities co-ordinating committee which would, and I quote: Provide President Zuma a line of sight on strategic decisions and interventions to create SOEs that play a transformative role in a capable developmental state.
The recent spat between National Treasury and Eskom, where the Minister of Public Enterprises had to intervene to direct Eskom to respond to National Treasury on a 172-page report does not help in restoring credibility of good governance.

What is required is a credible and sustainable framework to deal with 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 121 of 150 governance issues and the relationship with SOEs and their board of management with the shareholder.
Ally to this is the need to encourage and open up investment by the private sector in SOEs.

I thank you.

THE ECONOMY IN SOUTH AFRICA (Member‘s Statement) Dr P J GROENEWALD (VF PLUS): Agb Voorsitter, almal in ‘n land wil hê dat dit ekonomies goed moet gaan, want as dit ekonomies goed gaan, dan is almal voorspoedig.

Daar is ‘n hele paar instellings en faktore wat ‘n rol speel om te bepaal of ‘n land ekonomies welvaart skep.
Een van die aspekte is dat kredietgradering op ‘n land en sy regering toegepas word.

Standard and Poor het uitdruklik gesê dat een van die groot faktore om te bepaal of Suid-Afrika afgegradeer gaan word na rommelstatus, die bestur van sy staatsintellings is.

Nou kom die agb President en hy stel ‘n koordinerende raad saam, waardeur hy beheer van die staatsinstellings kry.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 122 of 150 Nou kom Futuregrowth en hulle sê dat hulle nie meer geld aan instellings soos Eskom, Transnet, Sanral en selfs die Ontwikkelingsbank van Suid-Afrika gaan leen nie.

Daar is ook ‘n Deense bank wat nou na vore getree het en gesê het dat hy ook nou nie verder geld aan Eskom gaan leen nie.

Agb Voorsitter, as Suid-Afrika en die regering ernstig is dat ons ekonomiese voorspoed begin kry, dan vra die Vryheidsfront Plus, gryp in.
Net, ek sê net, die ANC kan van President Zuma ontslae raak.

Gryp in en raak ontslae van hom, sodat ons ekonomiese vooruitgang kan kry.

Ek dank u.

(Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)

[Dr P J GROENEWALD (FF PLUS): Hon Chairperson, everyone in a country wants it to go well economically, because if it goes well economically, then everyone is prosperous.

There are several entities and factors that play a role in determining whether a country is creating economic wealth.
One of the aspects is that credit rating is applied to a country and its government.

Standard and Poor specifically said that one of the big factors in determining whether South Africa will be downgraded to junk status, is the management of its state-owned entities.

Now the hon President comes and establishes a co- 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 123 of 150 ordinating board, through which he gets control of state-owned entities.
Now Futuregrowth comes and they say that they will no longer lend money to entities like Eskom, Transnet, Sanral and even the Development Bank of South Africa.

There is also a Danish bank that has come to the fore saying that it is not going to lend Eskom money any longer.

Hon Chairperson, if South Africa and the government is serious about us gaining economic prosperity, then the Freedom Front Plus calls for intervention.

Only, I say only, the ANC can get rid of President Zuma.
Intervene and get rid of him, so that we can gain economic prosperity.

I thank you.]
I thank you.]

TEN BOREHOLES HANDED OVER TO PROVIDE WATER IN ALFRED NZO DISTRICT MUNICIPALITY (Member‘s Statement) Ms Z C FAKU (ANC): House Chair, The ANC welcomes the handing over of ten boreholes to the Alfred Nzo District Municipality, at Ramafule village, which is under the Matatiele Local Municipality, by the Minister for Cooperative Governance and 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 124 of 150 Traditional Affairs, Des van Rooyen, and the Eastern Cape Cogta MEC, Fikile Xasa.
This project is important for communities because one borehole at Ramafule will supply water to a population of 2 580 that has 469 households, yielding 1,25 litres per second.

The project of providing communities with water through the boreholes is the initiative of Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, which is under Cogta.
The ANC is of the view that this intervention of assisting with boreholes will go a long way in providing relief to the communities who are already experiencing the negative impact of drought.

And, many of these interventions are already implemented across the country to assist in the upliftment of the lives of South African citizens.

I thank you.

[Applause.]


BOOST FOR KWAZULU-NATAL EDUCATION INFRASTRUCTURE (Member‘s Statement) Ms P BHENGU (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC is committed at improving quality education and eliminating disparities.

As such, welcomes the handing over a newly built Langa High School, which is situated in Belgrade, at Pongola, in KwaZulu-Natal.
The 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 125 of 150 school has - among others - 25 classrooms, eight special classrooms, a media centre, a computer centre, science and life sciences laboratories, an electrical technology workshop, a consumer studies class, sport facilities, and a kitchen.

Langa High school is also one of many schools that the ANC Government is building and refurbishing in the province.
As recently two new schools were opened: One in Jozini, worth R34 million; and another newly renovated school in Eshowe, to the value of R10,5 million.

The ANC believes that the investment in the schools shows that its government in KwaZulu–Natal is serious about developing the standard of education, as well as education infrastructure in that province.

That is commendable!

I thank you.

Ms H O HLOPHE: Hon Chair, on a point of order.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza ): Yes hon member, what is your point of order?

Ms H O HLOPHE: Hon Chair, I need clarity, I do not remember the member.

Is she a Member of Parliament?

I do not remember her.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 126 of 150 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Dizida): Hon member, that is not a point of order.
ACTION FOR SA AIRWAYS DEBACLE (Member‘s Statement) Mr R A LEES (DA): Hon House Chair, Minister Gordhan in his March Budget Speech clearly laid down three steps that were needed for SA Airways, SAA.

These were: The strengthening of the board, engaging with equity partners and merging SAA with SA Express.

None of these have yet been achieved.

Since then, Myeni and her board have simply ignored Minister Gordhan and all warnings.

They have continued to run SAA to the brink of liquidation.
Myeni and her board have failed to publish annual financial statements for two years.

Apparently, they allowed SAA to run at billions of rands losses estimated at R11 billion for the last two and a quarter years.

She suspended officials such as Bosc, Mpshe and Stimple simply because they attempted to stop corruption.

She also embarked on the BNP Capital funding debacle and put SAA at risk of losing lucrative routes.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 127 of 150 There can be no rational basis for maintaining Myeni and others on the SAA Board.

The DA remains of the view that SAA must be placed under business rescue and new and competent directors approved.

Thank you.

[Applause.]

LAUNCH OF SMART ID CARDS (Member‘s Statement) Mr S D BEKWA (ANC): Hon House Chair, the launch of Smart ID Card online system by the Department of Home Affairs four months ago was a smart move and it is already bearing fruits.
This was done in order to improve service delivery and shorten queues at the home affairs offices.

Fifty per cent of the Smart IDs and passport applications have been finalised already.

The system is now open to all citizens who bank with Absa bank, First National Bank, FNB, Nedbank and Standard Bank, with 12 branches of these banks connected to the system in Gauteng and Cape Town.
The ANC urges all the citizens of South Africa, except for the first time applicants for IDs to use home affairs conveniently, to apply for Smart ID Cards and passports.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 128 of 150 The department aims to replace about 34 million green barcoded ID books with Smart ID Cards and has already issued 5,2 million cards.

The ANC commends the Department of Home Affairs on moving from a paper process to a complete dignified service.

I thank you, Chair.

[Applause.]


ROBERTSON WINERY ESTATE LABOUR PROBLEMS (Member‘s Statement) Mr L R MBINDA (PAC): Madam Chair, on a daily basis it becomes clearer and clearer that as things change, they actually remain the same.

Apartheid remains alive and well in this country.

At Roberson Winery in the Western Cape, as we speak, the workers have now been pushed into a corner and forced to fight for their rights by way of withholding their labour.
How can it be that people in this day and age can be earning between R2 900 and R3 500 a month and be denied a living wage?

What is upsetting about this whole situation is that the workers are expected from the little that they earn to finance their own travelling costs to the workplace and are further required to pay for the part of their uniforms.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 129 of 150 Besides financial expenses, the labour practices at Robertson Winery are designed in a manner that is striping the workers of their dignity and self-respect.

How can Anton Cilliers the chief executive officer, CEO, of Robertson Winery honestly expect to be heard justifying his salary increase of about R217 000, when workers are simply asking for R8 500.
According to the statistics from the SA Wine Industry Information and System, in this country nearly 100 000 hectares of vineyards mainly in the Western Cape account for 3% wine production.

The issue of Robertson Winery workers trying to ... [Time expired.]
SECRET APPROVAL OF R7 MILLION IN GOLDEN HANDSHAKES (Member‘s Statement) Mr N CAPA (ANC): Hon House Chairperson, the ANC is shocked by the city council‘s secret approval of almost R7 million in golden handshakes for two of its executives, at the time when 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 130 of 150 such resources are needed for service delivery, especially for black community areas.
The ANC views these terminations as unnecessary and unwarranted, as these two executives have performed very well and have received glowing performance evaluations which are part of the public record.

It is even worse that the matter was discussed secretly, by a party that is purported to be upholding the values of good governance, namely, transparency and prudent financial management and accountability.

The South Africans can now see the DA for what it is.
It is the party that does not care spending money on unnecessary things than on the development of the marginalised communities of the Western Cape.

I thank you.

[Applause.]

LOANS FOR STATE-OWNED ENTERPRISES (Member‘s Statement) Mr A R MCLOUGHLIN (DA): Madam House Chair, the decision by local investment group, Futuregrowth Asset Management and the Jyske 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 131 of 150 Bank of Denmark, to withhold loans to state-owned enterprises comes as a hammer blow to our already embattled economy.
The decision is hardly surprising given the fact that recent Auditor-General reports and research results show that the majority of state-owned enterprises are on the brink of liquidation.

This is a direct result of mismanagement, corruption and cadre deployment, and represents a huge vote of no confidence in President Jacob Zuma.
It would be imprudent if not totally reckless for any fund manager to risk his client‘s money in ventures that shows no prospects of a return on the investments or worse, a total loss of the investment.

If this trend is followed by other financial institutions, this government will be in serious trouble because sources of government borrowings will be severely restricted and more onerous.

This decision will also heighten a risk of a credit ratings downgrade and a further fall in the value of the rand.
This in turn will precipitate the reduction in economic activity and further substantial job losses.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 132 of 150 It is time that all in this country who wish to have a prosperous future for themselves and their children realised that South Africa can no longer afford to have Jacob Zuma as its President.

The only viable alternative is a DA-led government.

Thank you.

[Applause.]


HUMAN SETTLEMENTS (Member‘s Statement) Mr A M MUDAU (ANC): Madam Chair, the ANC will ensure that all South Africans have access to adequate human settlements and quality living conditions.

The ANC is therefore pleased by the rolling out of 300 decent new houses to deserving beneficiaries of Combiza Extension 5 in Etwatwa, Ekurhuleni.

The houses consist of two bedrooms, one bathroom, an open plan kitchen and a lounge.
These houses give residents some dignity, as they are now proudly homeowners of decent houses.

Moreover, in this housing project, senior citizens, people living with disabilities and child-headed households are prioritised.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 133 of 150 The ANC commends this project and believes that it will add value to its commitment of providing one million housing opportunities for qualifying households in urban and rural settlements over the next five years.

I thank you, Madam Chair.


[Applause.]

SCHOOL INFRUSTRUCTURE (Minister‘s Response) The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chairperson, I want to comment on the input which was made by the member from the ANC around school infrastructure.

I can say that indeed as a sector we are concerned about the ongoing state of our infrastructure in schools.

That is why we are doing all we can to make sure that we meet our norms and standards that we have published and committed ourselves publicly.
I can say that working with our provinces we have committed ourselves that by 2016, we should have done with the first phase of the norms and standards which caters for fencing, sanitation and water.

I can also share with the House on inappropriate structures which is an ongoing work supported by the provincese.

To date we have already built almost 162 schools.

One hundred and twenty- 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 134 of 150 six of them are in the Eastern Cape.
We have built 11 schools in the Free State, three in KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo, two in Mpumalanga, one in North West and 21 in the Western Cape.

As I said we are working very hard to ensure that indeed we don‘t only fast-track your basic infrastructure.

For us schools are not only learning spaces, but are also about our children and teachers dignity, their safety and more importantly our attitude to our learners.
Thank you very much for the comment and I still say we are committed to make sure that we do all we can to improve our school infrastructure.

Thank you.

ROBERTSON WINERY ESTATE LABOUR PROBLEM (Minister‘s Response) The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, I am going to respond to the issue that was raised by hon Mbinda.

I want to indicate that as we speak, in the winery industry there are negotiations that are continuing and are led by the Food and Allied Workers Union, Fawu.
I believe that the issues that he has raised, including the working conditions of those workers, are part of the bargaining issues.

Therefore, it would be proper that we wait for the finalisation of those negotiations.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 135 of 150 At the same time I want to advise the hon member that when he come across such issues he has to advise the workers because in terms of the Labour Relations Act and the Basic Conditions of the Employment Act these are the legislations that set their working conditions, and it include the clothing for the workers.
Therefore, rather than for the workers to go on strike they have to refer those issues to the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, because they have the legal legislation that will force the employers to implement exactly what they are supposed to do.

Thank you very much, House Chair.


FUNDING OF STATE OWNED ENTERPRISES (Minister‘s Response) The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Chairperson, I think it is worth trying to clarify what was the decision of the Cabinet lekgotla on the structure that was going to oversee the performance of the state-owned companies because it is a subject that a lot of us need understanding.
It was not that everything has been transferred to be under the single responsibility of the President on his own, rather, the model was similar to the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Council.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 136 of 150 There is a process going on led by the Deputy President at the moment on state-owned enterprises and state-owned companies.

That is something looking at the immediate situation and what need to happen there.
What the decision of the Cabinet lekgotla was, we needed a long-term running structure that oversees the functions of the state-owned companies along the lines and along the model of the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordination Council which will bring together a number of Ministers as well as the Deputy President in a body that would oversee a more efficient function of state-owned companies.

I think the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Council, PICC, has shown its mettle in this regard.
That is the decision that we took, and not some sinister plot as I think that one of the interpellators was suggesting.

Thank you very much.

FORCEFUL REMOVAL OF EFF MEMBERS FROM MUNICIPAL COUNCILS (Minister‘s Response) The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, our Constitution confines a legislative and executive authority of a municipality in each and every municipal council.

Section 151 of the Constitution is very clear 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 137 of 150 on that.
What does that mean?

It means that municipalities are entitled to develop procedures to address issues of governance of municipalities in their respective constituencies.

This includes the development of bylaws to deal with dress codes.

But this does not imply that they should do it without considering the provisions of the national and provincial legislation.
Before the elections, proactively so, the SA Local Government Association, Salga, developed guidelines guiding municipalities on the development of rules for respective municipal councils.

I am happy that, beside the submission that have been made now in the House, I have officially received correspondence from the EFF about municipalities where they are citing incidence of violence or forceful removal of their members from municipal council.
We will have to check exactly what happened in those municipalities for us to provide an appropriate response.

Thank you very much.

MANTUSINI DAIRY PROJECT SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS MATTER (Minister‘s Response) 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 138 of 150 The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Chair, I thank the hon member from the ANC about Mantusini Dairy Project.

That is a dynamic programme: one household, two diary cows.

We have about 400 households in the area.


We have been given up to March to ensure that each one of them has the capacity.

It is a direct response to the United Nations‘ findings that there is no shortage of food as such in South Africa, but it is food safety, security and nutrition.

We are responding to that.

I want to respond to the other question about the SA Airways, SAA.

It is not correct to say or suggest that the President takes decisions about the board of the SAA, it is not correct.
It is the responsibility of Cabinet in terms of the memorandum of co-operation.

It is not correct.

The Cabinet is with the matter and it is going to make an announcement soon.

[Interjections.]

No, no, we are dealing with the matter.

Lastly, it is unfortunate that when we talk about downgrading and divestments like future growth as the case is now, members of the opposition, particularly the DA, see this thing as an opportunity to actually get on the bandwagon and attack South Africa.
When you talk negatively in the manner that you do you are actually encouraging downgrading.

That is what you are inviting.

[Interjections.]

It is absolutely clear in our minds 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 139 of 150 that you are not loyal to the Republic of South Africa.

Thank you.
Thank you.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, as you would know that when we stand in this House to be sworn as Members of Parliament in terms of the Constitution, we swear loyalty to the Republic of South Africa and the Constitution.

I think it is unparliamentary for the member to say without a substantive motion that members on this side of the House are unpatriotic to the Republic of South Africa.

I would ask that he withdraw that.


It is not South Africa that we are blaming, but it is their inept and useless government that we are blaming.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms A T Didiza): Order hon member.

I will receive advice on the matter and then be able to respond to you.

This concludes ministerial responses.

We now come to the last item.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Chairperson, there is an issue that came from the member statement about the SAA which is very urgent.
The issue that we raised earlier with the Deputy President about the presence of the Ministers here is critical.

We have the SAA which is in the market looking for R16 billion.

There are two members of the board remaining there.
There is no guidance of 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 140 of 150 what is happening about the SAA and we are not getting any response from the executive of people who are running down an entity which is going to cause inconvenience not only for those who travel, but generally it will cause chaos in terms of it being a collapse institution.

We need accountability on what is happening in the SAA and no one is here to give us a response.
Can someone tell us what is happening in the SAA so that we are able to find direction?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you hon member.

Hon member, as you know that in ministerial statements Ministers who want to respond raise their hands and they have done so.

We have noted the issue that you have raised and I am sure the Deputy President equally has.
NOTICES OF MOTION Ms V BAM-MUGWANYA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House debates ways to advance rural development, land and agrarian reform and food security.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 141 of 150 Mr D J MAYNIER: House Chairperson, I wish to use this opportunity to read a draft resolution.
ALLEGED CLOSE TIES BETWEEN GUPTA FAMILY AND PRESIDENT ZUMA (Draft Resolution) Mr D J MAYNIER: I move without notice: That the House – (1) notes the serious allegations of the close ties between the Gupta family and President Zuma; (2) establishes an ad hoc committee to investigate the alleged involvement of the Gupta family in the capture of state resources and undue influence over this executive under the following terms of reference: (a) during the inquiry specific attention is paid to the circumstances surrounding the purchase of the Optimum coal mine by the Gupta-owned Tegeta Exploration and Resources and the subsequent 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 142 of 150 contract awarded to Tegeta Exploration and Resources by Eskom; (b) the involvement of the members of the Gupta family in the appointment process of executive members positions with specific reference to the following allegation ...
[Interjections.]

[Time expired.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, I‘m sorry you will forward the rest of the resolution.

The time is up.

Ms M O MOKAUSE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF: That the House debates and finds a solution on the plight of domestic workers, in particular sexual harassment and the long working hours without pay.
Ms B T BONGO: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC: 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 143 of 150 That the House debates the strengthening of support for struggles for national self-determination and multilateral approach to the management of global issues.

I thank you.
I thank you.

Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: House Chairperson, hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the IFP: That the House debates the need to urgently compel President Zuma to fulfil his pledge made in his 2011 state of the nation address to provide free sanitary products to vulnerable school girls who cannot afford, for failure to do so will continue to deny these young women their dignity and their constitutional rights to education.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Mr S C MNCWABE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the NFP: That the House debates the policy uncertainty challenge in the economic growth of South Africa.

Thank you.
Thank you.

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 144 of 150 Ms Z FAKU: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House debates Black Industrialists Scheme to promote the participation of black entrepreneurs in manufacturing.

Thank you.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chairperson, youth unemployment remains a major crisis facing South Africa today.
In fact, more than half of the economically active South African youth are unemployed which is a damning indictment of all the economic policies we have adopted since 1994.

In light of this, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the UDM: That the House debates the need to extend and refine the current youth wage subsidy in order create jobs for youth in South Africa.
Ms Z JONGBLOED: House Chairperson, give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA: 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 145 of 150 That the House debates efforts by the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries to ensure that previously disadvantaged people in the sector are no longer on the outside looking in, but become economically active and involved in the value chain of agriculture, forestry and fisheries.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member.
The lady was the one I pointed.

Ms P BHENGU: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House debates mechanisms to accelerate the roll out and expansion of aquaculture projects so as to enhance job creation as well as promote access to high protein food.
Mr S D BEKWA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House debates promotion of community engagement to enable communities to provide feedback.
1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 146 of 150 Mr L M NTSHAYISA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the AIC: That the House debates the role that traditional leaders should play in the development of their areas, and in collaboration with the local councils promote public participation and therefore strengthen democracy.
Mr N CAPA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House debates Rural Safety Strategy to deal with the safety and security of rural communities, farm workers and farm dwellers, in particular.
Mr L J BASSON: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA: That the House – 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 147 of 150 (1) debates, and I quote: ―Nomvula Mokonyane watergate‖ and the Minister‘s involvement in the alleged awarding of certain tenders at Lesotho highlands water project phase 2; and (2) further debates the delay of this project and the effect that it may have on Gauteng with regard to the shortage of water by 2018.
Mr P CHEUE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House debates the implementation of school safety programmes to ensure learners wellbeing, as well as curbing violent incidents, including abuse of learners within and outside schools.

I so move.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): The ANC?

The DA?

Thank you very much.

I wanted to check if you are alert and if you know the new rules.
I actually looked at both sides of the House and all of them - the ANC, the DA and the EFF - were looking and wondering what is the presiding officer doing now?

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 148 of 150 The House adjourned at 17:40 __________ ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces 1.
The Minister of Justice and Correctional Services (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Legal Aid South Africa for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16 [RP 116-2016].

(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Special Investigating Unit (SIU) for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16 [RP 223-2016].

2.
2.

The Minister of Labour (a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 28 – Department of Labour for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote 28 for 2015-16 [RP 226-2016].

1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 149 of 150 (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Unemployment Insurance Fund (UIF) for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16 [RP 48-2016].
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration (CCMA) for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16 [RP 209-2016].

(d) Report and Financial Statements of the National Economic Development and Labour Council (NEDLAC) for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2015-16.
(e) Report and Financial Statements of the Compensation Fund for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16.

3.

The Minister of Public Service and Administration (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Centre for Public Service Innovation – Vote 47 for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote 47 for 2015-16 [RP 171-2015].

4.
4.

The Minister of Trade and Industry 1 SEPTEMBER 2016 PAGE: 150 of 150 (a) Report of the Industrial Policy Action Plan (IPAP) for 2015 – 2016.

(b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Council for the Non- Proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction for the period 1 April 2015 to 31 March 2016.
(c) Government Notice 882, published in Government Gazette No 40178, dated 1 August 2016: Prohibition of the use of Marks by the South African Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee (SASCOC), in terms of section 15(1)(b) of the Merchandise Marks Act, 1941 (Act No 17 of 1941).

(d) Report and Financial Statements of the National Gambling Board (NGB) for 2015- 16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16 [RP 306-2015].