Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1694823097952.pdf (Botswana)
EMERGENCY MEETING (FINANCIAL ACTION TASK FORCE (FATF) BILLS) MONDAY 31 JANUARY 2022 MIXED VERSION HANSARD NO: 204 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon.

Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP.

DEPUTY SPEAKER Hon.

P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP.

(Tonota) Clerk of the National Assembly Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly Acting Learned Parliamentary Counsel Assistant Clerk (E) His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP.

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP.


(Boteti West) CABINET - President - Vice President - Ms B. N. Dithapo - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe - Ms K. Kokoro - Mr R. Josiah Hon.

K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP.

(Molepolole South) - Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

K. T. Mmusi, MP.

(Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon.

Dr L. Kwape, MP.

(Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon.

K. K. Autlwetse, MP.


(Specially Elected) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon.

K. S. Gare, MP.

(Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

P. K. Kereng, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism Hon.

Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP.

(Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon.

T.M.

Segokgo, MP.

(Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon.

K. Mzwinila, MP.
K. Mzwinila, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Hon.

T. M. Rakgare, MP.

(Mogoditshane) - Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development Hon.

A. M. Mokgethi, MP.

(Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon.

P. O. Serame, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon.

F. M. M. Molao, MP.

(Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Hon.

Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP.


(Tati East) Hon.

L. M. Moagi, MP.

(Ramotswa) - Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology - Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security Hon.

M. Kgafela, MP.

(Mochudi West) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

M. R. Shamukuni, MP.

(Chobe) - Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development Hon.

E. M. Molale, MP.

(Goodhope-Mabule) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development Hon.
D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP.

(Gaborone South) - Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

S. N. Modukanele, MP.

(Lerala -Maunatlala) Hon.

T. Monnakgotla, MP.

(Kgalagadi North) Hon.

M. M. Pule, MP.

(Mochudi East) Hon.

M. S. Molebatsi, MP.


(Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

S. Lelatisitswe, MP.

(Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness Hon.

N. W. T. Makwinja, MP.

(Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education Hon.

B. Manake, MP.
B. Manake, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

H. B. Billy, MP.

(Francistown East) Hon.

A. Lesaso, MP.

(Shoshong) - Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES Names Constituency Hon.

L. Kablay, MP.

(Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon.

Dr U. Dow, MP.

Hon.


P. Majaga, MP.

Hon.

M. Balopi, MP.

Hon.

J. S. Brooks, MP.

Hon.

C. Greeff, MP.

Hon.

T. Letsholo, MP.

Hon.

T. F. Leuwe, MP.

Hon.

T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP.

Hon.

Dr T. Matsheka, MP.

Hon.

S. N. Moabi, MP.

Hon.

P. K. Motaosane, MP.

Hon.

O. Regoeng, MP.

Hon.

J. L. Thiite, MP.


Specially Elected Nata-Gweta Gaborone North Kgalagadi South Gaborone Bonnington South Kanye North Takatokwane Gaborone Central Lobatse Tati West Thamaga-Kumakwane Molepolole North Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon.

D. Saleshando, MP.

(Leader of the Opposition) Hon.

M. G. J. Motsamai, MP.


(Opposition Whip) Maun West Ghanzi South Selebi Phikwe West Mahalapye East Sefhare-Ramokgonami Ngami Okavango Maun East Bobonong Selebi Phikwe East Palapye Nkange Mahalapye West Francistown West Hon.

D. L. Keorapetse, MP.

Hon.

Y. Boko, MP.

Hon.

Dr K. Gobotswang, MP.

Hon.

C. K. Hikuama, MP.

Hon.

K. K. Kapinga, MP Hon.

G. Kekgonegile, MP.

Hon.

T. B. Lucas, MP.

Hon.

K. Nkawana, MP.

Hon.

O. Ramogapi, MP.

Hon.

Dr N. Tshabang, MP.

Hon.

D. Tshere, MP.

Hon.


M. I. Moswaane, MP.

Hon.

T. S. Khama, MP.

Hon.

L. Lesedi, MP.

Hon.

B. Mathoothe, MP.

Hon.

M. Reatile, MP.

(Botswana Patriotic Front) Serowe West Serowe South Serowe North Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon.

W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.
W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.

Francistown South (Alliance for Progressives) TABLE OF CONTENTS EMERGENCY MEETING (FINANCIAL ACTION TASK FORCE (FATF) BILLS) MONDAY 31 JANUARY, 2022 CONTENTS PAGE (S) BUSINESS MOTION.........................................................................................................................................44-45 GOVERNMENT BILLS Biological and Toxin Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.
44 of 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)....................................................................................................................1-3 Chemical Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

45 of 2021) Second Reading..................................................................................................................................................4-9 Nuclear Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.
46 of 2021) Second Reading...............................................................................................................................................10-17 Precious and Semi-Precious (Protection) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

47 of 2021) Second Reading..............................................................................................................................................18-26 Real Estate Professionals (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.
48 of 2021) Second Reading...............................................................................................................................................27-35 Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.
36 of 2021) Second Reading...............................................................................................................................................36-43 Monday 31st January, 2022 THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:00 p.m. (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) P R A Y E R S * * * * BIOLOGICAL AND TOXIN WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
44 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate) fa o sa e tlisa, mo go Section 6 ya yone rraetsho, 1 le 2(a), tse di supang gore go tlaa nna le board, e e sekasekang dilo dingwe, o kare implementation ya teng e santse e saletse kwa morago, gore jang ga re itse Rre Mmusi.

Ke tlaa go fa sekai fela gore rona mo dikgaolong tsa rona, go na le motse o bapile le Palapye, tota ke Palapye fela, fa Pilikwe fale, go santse go na le ntwa e e gakgamatsang... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.
MR RAMOGAPI: Ke tlaa tla ke go neela tsala ya me.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ee, ga ke batle o ya kgakala o tloga o... MR RAMOGAPI: Ehe!

Ee rra.

MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Order!

Order!

Honourable Members.

The debate Honourable Members is resuming.

When the House adjourned last week Friday, Honourable Ramogapi was on the floor debating and he is left with 16 minutes 27 seconds.

MR REATILE: Clarification.

Thank you sir.


Ke ne ke re Motlotlegi Ramogapi, when we deal le Bills, re bitsa e le Clause, e nna section fa e setse e le Act jaanong o tsena kwa court.

So refer to Clause 6, e se ka ya nna Section 6.

I thank you my leader.

MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Tla ke go dumedise mo tshokologong ya letsatsi la gompieno.

Ke go lebogele go mpha sebaka se.


Ke gakolole Batswana fela gore kana tota Bill e e fa pele ga rona e re e tshwereng e, re tshwaragane le bothata jo e leng gore ke Molao-kakanyetso o o saleng o nna teng ka lebaka la gore mafatshefatshe ba ne ba dirisa dibetsa tsa mmolao wa kgatampolo, tse di fitlhegileng.
Kgang e e tswa fela kwa First World War, ga tsena Second World War, go ntse go na le mathata one a, mme ya re morago ga bo Second World War gape, ga nna ga tswelela go ntse go na le matlhasedi a mofuta one o. Maikaelelo magolo ke go itsa ope fela gore a se ka a ba a dira dibetsa tsa mmolao wa kgatampolo.
Go na le go dira mo gotweng to develop kana ga bobedi mo gotweng go dira production ya teng, a bo a rekisa, kana ga boraro mo gotweng to stockpile tsone dibetsa tsa mofuta o. Ga bo four, ke ka fa re tshwanetseng go di senya ka teng.

Mr Speaker, gape gongwe go botlhokwa gore re gakologelwe gore mme kana Botswana e ne ya saena convention e, e e neng ya dumalanwa ka dingwaga tsele tsa bo 1972.
Le fa molao tota one o ile wa tla mo Palamenteng ka ngwaga wa 2018 mo Bills tse di neng di le dintsintsi tsele Mr Speaker.

Kgang ya me e tona mo letsatsing la gompieno Mr Speaker, ke go supa ka Section 6, one ke o eme nokeng Rre Mmusi jaaka ke ile ka simolola maloba, ke tlhalosa gore ke o eme nokeng, o se ka wa tshoga.

Kana Bill e, le MR RAMOGAPI: Ke a go leboga.


Ke gore ga ke bue ka Clause, ke bua ka section, a kere yone ga e a tlisiwa fano, ke bua ka Bill e kgologolo ya Section 6, e seng Clause e e fano.

Bill e e fano yone e na le Clauses di le pedi fela, ke e go baakanngwang five.

So e ke bua ka e kgologolo ya Section 6, but I thank you gore o bo o lekile gore o thuse le ba bangwe jalo.
So Section 6.1 le 2(a) ya molao one o o leng teng Mr Speaker, se se re tshwenyang e bua gore go nne le board e e sekasekang fa go latlhelwang dilo tse teng, go bona gore ga di ame batho.

E bile gape ga di ame le dijwalo, tse di ka dirang tsone dilo tsa mofuta one o. Kwa Pilikwe, go na le ntwa e tona ya baagi le Puso, e ba supang gore go na le radiology e e nang le borai kana botlhole jo bo ka bakang dilo tse di tswang mo mebolaong ya kgatampolo.
Le kwa Palapye gone kwa bo Mmalenakana, o tlaa fitlhela e le gore fa go latlhelwang malele teng, tota Puso ga e tlhomamise e bo e lebelela gore a mme golo fa tota go safe mo bathong le mo dijwalong.

O tlaa fitlhela e le gore nnyaa, Puso tota re latlhela gongwe le gongwe fela, a board yone e, e e supiwang gore e tlaa nna teng mo go Section 6, e nne e lebelela dilo tse fa re dira implementation Rre Mmusi, go bona gore mme tota dilo tse di latlhiwa sentle.
Kana dilo tse di dintsi, tse di dirang gore botsogo jwa batho bo nne mo diphatseng.

Tse di tshwanang le bo mercury, gone mo ga dipone tsone tsa bo fluorescent tse.

Ke dilo tse go latlhelwanglatlhelwang fela, mme di borai.

1 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022BIOLOGICAL AND TOXIN WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
44 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Jaanong dilo tse kana fa re di lebeletse, ka fa di leng borai ka teng, re tshwanelwa ke go bona gore re di latlhela kwa go siameng sentle.

Jaaka gone mo Bill yone e ya gago, go na le section ya destruction, gore mme fa e le gore dilo tse di a senngwa, a go bonwe tota gore di bewa fa go siameng sentle.

Kgang e tona ke gore kana malatsi a gompieno, re se ka ra solofela gore re tlaa bona dintwa tsele tsa mmolao wa kgatampolo wa bogologolo wa dibomo.
Gompieno mmolao wa kgatampolo o o tlang, o le tshwanelwang ke gore le o tlhotlhomise thata Rre Mmusi, ke one wa bo Coronavirus.

Ke gore le re bolelele fela gore kana dilo tse, gongwe fa ke ka tlhalosetsa Batswana fa moragonyana fale gore, kana mafatshe one a, a kile a dirisa viruses go le gantsi, e le one mmolao wa kgatampolo.

Virus e tshwana le smallpox, kana ke virus kana ke eng, dilo di tshwana le bo anthrax le cholera, ke malwetse mangwe a mafatshe a ba kileng ba a dirisa go fetsa lesika loo motho.
Le gompieno virus e e re tshwarisitseng bothata e, kana go na le dipego tse dintsintsi tse bangwe ba supang gore kwa e simologileng e tlholwa teng, gone go dirwa jaana ka maikaelelo a gore ba tle ba fetse lesika loo motho.

E tle e re golo gongwe kwa pheletsong mangwe mafatshe a bo a taboga ke bofefo ba dira eng, ba dira mo gotweng jaanong batho ba reka melemo kwa go bone, ba dira eng kwa go bone.

Bone on their side economy will be booming ka gore ba na le itsholelo.
Re re a e re ntse re dira melao jaana, ba mafatshe a matona a rraetsho… le se ka la tshaba gore fa lele kwa bo United National you voice out gore bagaetsho a re tlhotlhomiseng, le go bona gore tota gatwe virus e e tlile jang, ka gore fa re ka lebelela fela ra tlhotlhomisa sentle, go ne go na le dikgang tsa gore e rile kwa e simologileng teng ba bangwe ba ne ba sa batle gore e tswele kwa ntle, ba sa batle gore mafatshe a itse.

E le sephiri sa bone fela.


Dilo tse rona re le lefatshe re a itlama, re bo re diragatsa, re bo re dumela gore ga gona batho bape ba ba tlaa tlhaselwang ka dibetsa tsa mofuta o wa mmolao wa kgatampolo.

Mafatshe a mangwe one rraetho ba a re ribamela.

Re re nnyaa a mafatshe a a re ribamelang a, tota le re thuse le one, le bo le thuse le Batswana, le boloke lesika loo motho.
Fa re ka lesa fela re re, nnyaa re a ba tshaba, e tlaa re kwa pheletsong re fitlhele e le gore lesika loo motho le fedile, jaaka o utlwa ke bua gore dibetsa tse, malwetsi a bo smallpox, anthrax le bo cholera ke one a a dirisiwang.

E ne e rile go le pele ka ntwa e le ya bo First World War, foo gone go dirisiwa poison fela e tsenngwa mo dijong, go be go raya gore masole a tlaa swa.

E tsenngwa mo metsing go raya gore batho ba tlaa swa.
Ke dilo tse e leng gore rare re di e le tlhoko re le lefatshe la Botswana.

Rraetsho ke ema fa ke go leboga, supporting this Bill gore e siame, e tlaa re thusa mo go laoleng terrorists, e tlaa re thusa le mo go boneng gore mafatshe a rona ga a tlhakatlhakane, ga re nne le mathata.

Mme fela re re re go neele mohago gore, fa le le kwa bo United Nations buang ka lentswe le le lengwefela.
Re ntse re itse gore mafatshe a mangwe a a gana to sign convention e. O fitlhele ba gana tota gore ba saene, bone e le gore ba saena fela ka gore re tlaa reng.

E bile ba bangwe ba saenne la bofelofelo, e le gore ba bangwe ga ba a bolo go saena.

A mangwe ke gone ba bo ba tla ba saena.

Re re, re a itse, ga ke batle go a bua mafatshe a a ntseng e le bone kgapetsakgapetsa a dira dibetsa tse, mme fa ba sena go nna ba di dira kwa go bone ga go re sepe fela.
Mathata go tswa fa a tla kwa go rona, bone itsholelo ya bone go tswa fa e a gola, ka gore re reka sengwe le sengwe kwa go bone.

I therefore support this Bill.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (DR LETSHOLATHEBE): Thank you very much Mr Speaker for giving me the opportunity.

Ke go leboge thata Mr Speaker, ke dumedise mo motshegareng wa gompieno.
Ke re ke ema fa go ema nokeng Tona mo Tshutisong ya gagwe ya go ka baakanya molao o wa the Biological and Toxin Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

44 of 2021).

Mr Speaker, ke tsaya gore ke molao o e leng gore o botlhokwa fela thata mo botshelong kwa motho.

The biological and toxin weapons ke nngwe ya dibetsa tse di kileng tsa bo di dirisiwa thata go ganyaola batho.

Ke nngwe ya groups tsa weapons of mass destruction tse di tshwanang le tsone chemical weapons le nuclear weapons.
O a bona gore ke molao o o tshwanetseng gangwe le gape re e o tsenye leitlho.

Ke ema nokeng Tona go bo a o lebile a o tsentse leitlho mo nakong ya gompieno.

Mr Speaker, bothata jwa biological weapons ke gore, dikgang tse go dirwang bacterias, virus, di ka tswa di le cultured, di lengwa fela in a lab.

Di bo di ka kgona go dirisiwa go ka golafatsa batho kana go dirisiwa mo dintweng.
Ke dingwe tse o bonang gore fa re sa di lebelela fela sentle, di ka re direla mathata ka tsone viruses le bacteria tse di tlaabong di lemilwe ka bomo, 2 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022BIOLOGICAL AND TOXIN WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

44 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate) di tlaabo di dirisiwa to cause malwetse, mme e bile fa gongwe go tlise le tsone dintsho.
Ka jalo ke molao o e leng gore lefatshe lengwe le lengwe le tshwanetse gore le nne gangwe le gape le e tsenya leitlho.

Biological weapons Mr Speaker ke dingwe tse e leng gore fa ke di tshwantshanya le tse dingwe tse pedi tsele tsa mass destruction tsa bo chemical weapons, nuclear, tsone di ka tswa di le bonya go ka bolaya batho, mme fela di a anama.

Ga go tshwane le lerumo le e reng fa go le mo ntweng fa le lebagane nna le bo le ntlhabile go feletse jalo.
Tsa biological weapons ke mo e leng gore fa mongwe fa e lebagantswe wena, o bo o tsamaya o siela kwa tšhabeng ya gaeno, go fete go aname, go tsene mo go ba bangwe.

Ka jalo go ganyaole batho ba le bantsintsi.

Ka nako tse re ka akanya bacteria tse di neng tsa dirwa go dira bolwetse jo jwa anthrax, jo e neng e le gore ba bangwe ba ne ba leka go ka lwantsha mafatshe a mangwe ka jone.

Bo a supafala gore ke bolwetse jo bo diphatsa thata, ga bo na sepe le molelwane, it can cross.
A mangwe a nna airborne, a kgona gore a tsamaisiwe ka phefo gore a ye to affect batho ba bangwe.

Ka jalo mafatshe a otlhe a ne a kgobokana ka 1972 go dumalana gore go emisiwe kgang e ka nako ya the Biological Weapons Convention (BWC), gore go dumalwane gore golo moo ga go a siamela lefatshe.

Ga go a siamela sika loo motho.

Ka jalo go ne ga dumalanwa gore go se ka ga tlhola go dirwa.

Mr Speaker, botlhoko jo bo leng teng ka one mmolao wa kganyaolo o ke gore, it is relatively cheap.
Jaaka Dr Tshabang a ne a bua a re, mongwe o kile a kgobonyana chemicals tse pedinyana tse tharo golo gongwe, le gone mo motho o kgona gore a tseye virus a e godise, a ntsifatse, gore a kgone gore a felele a e dirisitse ka tsela e e sa siamang.

Ke sengwe se se kgonang gore se nne diphatsa mo matshelong a batho.
Fa go ntse jalo go felela e le gore jaaka fa re bua ka madi re lebagane le ba Financial Action Task Force (FATF), le tsone investors di bo di akanya gore re tla kwa lefatsheng le e leng gore melao ya teng fa go tla kwa dikgang tsa biological weapons ga di a nna sentle.

Melao ya teng ga e a tsepama sentle.

Ba felele ba e busetse kwa morago.

Pele ga ke tswelela ka kgang ya me, gongwe ke fete ka kgang ya Pilikwe e ke utlwileng Honourable Ramogapi a bua ka yone.
Gongwe ke tlhalose gore re le ba Ministry of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology re ne ra nna le kgang mo re neng re eleditse go ka dira a very well safe place e e neng e le gore we were going to dispose biohazards material tse e leng gore ga re ise re tswelele ka kgang eo.

Re ne ra e boela morago fa banni ba ka koo, fa e le gore o ne a bua ka ga yone, ba ne ba se comfortable ka ga gone.
E ne e le kgang e e neng e le gore re ne re e dira fela sentle, e le gore re ya go rekegela matshelo a batho, re ya go dira gore we dispose those biohazard material sentle.

Ke santse ke tlaa boela kwa go bone, ke ikgata motlhala ke ya go buisana le bone go ba thalosetsa gore, re utlwile selelo sa bone.

Re tlaa batla lefelo le sele, ka tota o tshwanetse gore o dire selo se e leng gore batho ba comfortable ka sone.
Fa ke boela mo go yone the biological and toxin weapons Mr Speaker, ke kgang e e botlhokwa re tshwanetse re e lebelele tota.

Kana e kgona to affect dikgang tsa bo tourism.

Madi re a dira ka tourism mo lefatsheng la rona.

Akanya fela another country e feel jealously about our tourism ba bo ba tsaya bacteria tse di ka bolayang ditlhapi le ditlhatshana tse dingwe kwa bo Okavango Delta for example.

Ba bo ba gasaka bacteria gone moo tse di ka felelang di re senyetsa kgwebo ya rona ya tourism.
Ke dintwa tse e leng gore fa o ka di lebelela, di lowa ka ditsela tse di ntseng jalo.

Le tsone dikgang tsa food security, o tlaa fitlhela ba bangwe ba kgona go dirisa dikgang tse tsa biological and toxin weapons gore ba lwantshe leruo le tsone dimela.

Go bo go felela e le gore lefatshe le nna le mathata a dijo.

O ka bona fela gore ke dikgang tse di tshosang tota fa o ka nna fa fatshe wa di lebelela.
Potable water; some people can use it to fight a country, ba tsena mo ditankeng tse tsa metsi ba tsenya just a spoon full of some virus kana bacteria.

Di kgona go ka ganyaola lefatshe ka bophara.

Ke sengwe se se supang gore ke dikgang tse e leng gore gangwe le gape re tshwanetse go nna re di lebelela.

Re nne re ipona gore fa re sa ikategang teng re baakanye.

Ke dingwe tse e leng gore if we do not put an eye mo go tsone re ka felela re nna le mathata.
Kana ba teng ba bangwe ba ipitsa the bio-terrorists ba ba dirisang dilo tse go ka ganyaola batho.

Ke sengwe se re tshwanetseng go se lebelela go yeng kwa pele.

Mr Speaker, I can say a lot mo kgannyeng e ya biological and toxin weapons mme ka nako e sa nkema sentle ke re ka a a kalo, ke gatelela gore ke molao o re tshwanetseng go o lebelela.

We have to make our visitors very welcome and safe.

Ka jalo, ke support Tona gore a lebalebe molawana o a o sekaseke gore fa o tlhaelang teng a o baakanye.
Ka a le kalo Mr Speaker, I support the Minister to amend the Bill.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

3 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022BIOLOGICAL AND TOXIN WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

44 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Dr Letsholathebe.

Honourable Mmusi, reply to the debates.

MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke go dumedise ke bo ke dumedise Mapalamente a a leng mo Ntlong e ya gompieno.
Mr Speaker, ke lebogela dikakgelo tse di dirilweng mo Bill e ke e beileng pele Palamente ka Labotlhano, e e ntseng e buiwa gompieno.

Mr Speaker, gongwe ke tlanyetlanye dintlha tse pedi fela go supa gore re le Lephata la Defence, Justice and Security le fa re tlisa melao jaana, ga re a nna fela.
E ne ya re ka 2018 ra simolodisa Lephata la Chemical, Biological, Nuclear and Radiological (CBNR) weapons management authority, e le lone le le re thusang gore melao e re e fetisang e le bo le ntse le lebeletse dikgang tse.
Fela ke ka tlanya gore the authority is currently conducting inspections of all laboratories across the country and assessing them on the following; skills audit, inventory check, quantity management, risk based assessment on adopting and maintaining appropriate measures to account for and ensure the safety, security and physical protection of CBNR related materials.

Mr Speaker, ke ka bua gore Botswana does not have the adequate capacity and capabilities to detect the CBNR materials.
This expertise is not enough mme e bile it is not easy to get.

Therefore, we are currently carrying out this process as Members of Parliament.

It is critical as it will direct capacitation of the structures to enable the country to detect these toxic materials.

in the Fela ke wetsa ke re CBNR Authority le yone e tsweletse fela thata and it has since gained to buy-in among Government ministries and agencies on the rules and responsibilities instruments.
implementing The authority has also established focal points for the confidence building measures in the Government ministries, agencies and private sector.

Through this, Botswana will submit our first ever confidence building measures to the Biological Weapon Convention as a tool to prevent or reduce the occurrence of ambiguities, doubts and suspicions and to improve international cooperation in the field of …(Inaudible)… biological activities.
Fa ke boela mo Bill ke re Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Biological and Toxin Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

44 of 2021) be read the second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee-Later Date.

BILL CHEMICAL WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

45 OF 2021) Second Reading MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, let us hear you again Honourable Minister of Defence, Justice and Security, Honourable Mmusi, you may present.
MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, le yone Bill is not long.

The objective of the Bill is to align the Chemical Weapons Prohibition Act with the Counter-Terrorism Act.
The Bill has two Clauses summarised as follows Mr Speaker; Clause 2 debates the definition of proliferation financing and Clause 3 amends the Chemical Weapons Prohibition Act by substituting for Section 14 which prohibits chemical weapons with a new Section that aligns with the provisions of Section 3 and 5 of the Counter-Terrorism Act, which prohibits acts of terrorism.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Chemical Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

45 of 2021) be read the second time.


DR TSHABANG (NKANGE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

I think the arguments for this Bill are more less the same as for the previous one in terms of application, prevention and even production of those chemicals.

I just have a few extra comments Minister.

I think most of these chemical weapons are in the world today, the ones that are very dangerous.

They are manufactured by some disgruntled professionals in agreement with terrorists.
Ke ne ke re fela ke bontshe boeteledipele gore tota re a leka re le lephata.

Re a itse gore ga re ise re goroge fa go tshwanetseng teng mme yone melao e tlaa re thusa gore re goroge koo Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re fela ke tlanyetlanye ba itse gore lephata le teng kwano le le tsweletseng ka dikgang tse.

When you look at our professionals, especially scientists in the third world, Botswana is not an exception, most of them are less paid, and are mostly idling in the labs.
In that case, there can be a very fertile ground for recruitment by these foreign or groups with intension or with a motive to cause chemical weapons, devastation in some of the 4 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022CHEMICAL WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

45 OF 2021) Second Reading nation states.


So, I think you have a mandate Minister to at least look at the welfare and the amount of work that these scientists have in this country, whether you provide them with enough occupation and with enough care.

I think even around the world these organisations that use chemical weapons have recruited professionals.
In fact, not only from developing countries, but even from the developed countries where you find that professionals are complaining upon one or two things.

I think most of you in this House you will remember the story whether is true or not, but there is a likelihood that it is the truth, that the university in Wuhan recruited a professor from Harvard University to come and establish a lab to deal with a lot of development of viruses and chemicals.
Some of the accusations that western world are pointing at China, it says even the Coronavirus; the one that is devastating the world, was developed from that lab.

You can see that even though it is conspiracy theories, to some extent there is a truth that some scientists are being recruited.
I am talking about people with high capacity, whose capacity had been developed over the years in developing countries, and they are being lured to go to other countries to go and develop to what has been quotation marks, could be dangerous weapons and dangerous viruses to be released in the world.

Today is like Ramogapi was saying gore kana cold war ya gompieno is not just cold war, e na le chemical and biological weapons involved.
I think as a country, we should guard against this, and when you go with what you have said, we trust that the organisation that you say you formed would look into this, would guard the welfare of the professionals in the field.

We will also make sure that the professionals are well equipped in terms of the research they are doing, and they are not idling around because idling around is a problem.
Even in the Bible gatwe “idle hands are a workshop of the devil.” So, be careful when you leave scientists idling around, maybe accusing them o re they lazy without providing them with enough professional occupation gore ba ka nna preoccupied.
The other thing Honourable Minister, we are talking about chemical weapons, and some extent biological weapons, and then you find that the first world gone kwa Financial Action Task Force (FATF) e tlholegang teng, they have tough rules for us here in the third world, and these rules does not to some of the countries that are their friends.
Ke tsaya gore European Union (EU) and the United Kingdom (UK) they are friends with the United States (US), and the US is keeping stocks and stocks of anthrax, small pox frozen in the labs.

You wonder gore if they come to African countries, ba bo ba tla ba re lona you cannot have these, whereas o kare go na le the so big brother countries around the world ba e leng gore bone they have the right to keep these dangerous weapons, o ipotsa gore how do they apply the standards.
So I think gongwe as you say gore kana golo fa re tabogile le the FATF requirements, you must also take cognisance of the fact that some of the big countries around the world ba na le stocks and stocks of these chemicals.

You will remember also that, this mentality was the first world trying to control what the third would can produce, is not right.
We have in the past Iraq to some degree was accused of having these chemical weapons and there was no prove; go supiwa diterakanyana go sena concrete evidence e ba e supang.

So be careful gore le lona kamoso as country, youd would be pointed gore no re na le some chemical allies, re na le bo semang le bo semangmang.

I think this propaganda can be used to discourage proper science in the third world.

So be careful, but also this big brother mentality should be taken care of.
Ke tsaya gore you understand exactly what I am saying from a defense point of view gore go na le ba e leng gore ba tsaya gore they are big brothers, ba tsamaya ba re direla melao, mme fa ba re direla melao, ga ba direle ba bangwe melao.

So I think we should be treated equally.


So FATF gongwe le nne le ba botsa gore nnyaa fa le ntse le re re nne careful ka melao yone e, re dire melao ka bontsi e thibelang proliferation of chemical weapons, a mme your friends in the third world are they complying with these laws especially that they have proven gore some of these treaties do not want to sign some of these treaties tsa prohibition; both in development and proliferation of chemical weapons.
They take time to sign them and take time to explain what they are not signing, but when it comes to us, ke come on, come on.

Gompieno jaana we have been called to come and say no, re dira molao, we want to satisfy FATF.

I think this thing as third worlds, le rona we must get a voice to say no, we cannot be pushed around because lona you have your friends out there who are not complying with these chemical weapons.

I must hasten to say... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

DR TSHABANG: Okay granted.


HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Honourable thank you.

Mr Speaker, can I proceed with the clarification?

5 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022CHEMICAL WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

45 OF 2021) Second Reading MR SPEAKER: I said tswelela Morena.

MR TSOGWANE: Point of clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga Doctor gore o bo nneetse clarification.
Tota ke ne ke gatelela mo mafokong a bofelo o a bua gore kana le rona re tshwanetse gore re nne le lentswe re ikemele, re se ka ra tewa gotwe saenang, saenang fela, dirang se, dirang se.

Ke re ke kana gone go tswa fela gore dithata tse o nang le tsone tsa go ikemela dikae, because we know we are not of the same weight and same power.
Gape the option is yours, fa o batla gore o gane, you can refuse, but you should be weary of the repercussions gore mme fa ke gana, ke bo ke tewa gotwe nnyaa jaanong madi a gago ga a bewe, ke go tsenya mo grey list, ga ba a go pateletsa, one a ke one a e leng gore o bona gore conditions tse ga se tse o ka emelelanang le tsone Jaanong ke re gone seemo fa se ntse jalo Doctor, go dirwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang ka gore bone ba go neela conditions fela ba bo ba go raya ba re fa o sa saene, go raya gore se ke sone se se tlaa go diragalelang?
Fa e le gore wena o bona gore nnyaa ke ka emelana le seemo seo ka ikemela ke le lefatshe, ka se ka ka tswa mo dipapadisanyong le ditirisanyo, then it is okay.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

DR TSHABANG: Ke a go utlwa VP, what I am basically saying ke gore, even though we are going to accept come on, come on, we must have a voice, and also tell them gore nnyaa kana le lona you have these friends.

You will fulfill your obligations, but at the same time you remind them.

Ke tsaya gore it is not dictatorship.


Well, if you say as a country we have accepted that dictatorship, I understand, but you must have a voice.

Mugabe used to go to United Nations (UN) and tell them that Africa must have its own voice, I remember several times he hammered the issue of colonisation and recolonisation, until some people started listening.

I think what is key is your voice in these organisations.
Ga ke tseye gore le ya go raga ditafole, but you must construct a voice kwa FATF, gore you are applying double standards.

Fa e le gore you want to apply double standards, go raya gore le rona we are not going to take you seriously.

Mugabe used to say, go na le mo gotweng “Look East Policy.” Fa e le gore o tlaa nna bale ba go gatelela fela, sometimes you have to find some friends somewhere around the world that you can trade with them.
I know it is not easy, but I am simply saying, time has come that as a country we must have a voice.

We cannot just be colonised from 1966 even up to now.

Le dilo tse e leng gore tota they do not need guns, you just need a voice, go bo gotwe nnyaa, ga re ka ke ra bua.

I think you need a voice Rre Tsogwane.

Again Honourable Minister, you know the origin of most of these chemical weapons is in the first world; Europe, America and China, the superpowers of this world.
Is it possible that we may make barriers as well in this country, that some of these chemicals should not reach the shores of this country?

That is what I am trying to say, that as much as you say, you do not have a voice to say tsamayang le ye go bolelela United States (US) that they must destroy those stocks and stocks of anthrax, but at least you have a voice to say, I am not allowing these chemicals to come into my country.
You must have border control about some of the chemicals, I trust that one you have control over.

I think Mr Speaker… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarify, the real doctor.

MINISTER OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (DR LETSHOLATHEBE): Clarification.

…(Laughter!

)… Thank you.

No, the real doctor is the one who was speaking.

Maybe let me clarify this Dr Tshabang, as a Chemist you are aware, please do not mislead the House.
Go na le chemicals tse di sa tseneng fela, tse dingwe you have to ask for permission fa e le gore you order them o di tlisa mono.

Tse dingwe are not allowed, di a kganelwa.

Ga se gore ga gona melao e e ka thibelang chemicals tse dingwe.

I know you are aware of that, can you please correct that Dr Tshabang.

DR TSHABANG: There was no error Dr Letsholathebe, the real doctor e seng doctors tse di phakiwang tsa bangwe tse le di itseng.
Chillyboy o a itse gore go na le tsa mophako, go na le tsa rona le bo Letsholathebe.

I think you have emphasized it.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!

)… DR TSHABANG: I am not misleading anyone.

I am simply saying that if we have laws, we must make sure that we improve on them, because they originate from the developed countries.
The fundamental point I want to make ke gore, these weapons and chemicals they originate in those countries kwa FATF e leng teng, kwa go bewang melao teng, they export these chemicals.

I think as much as rona gotwe we are just recipients, we must also have control over how the chemicals 6 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022CHEMICAL WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

45 OF 2021) Second Reading come here.


I am not saying ga re na melao, ka re the originators re nne strict mo go bone gore ba ka baya melao jang, kwa go bone they continue to produce these chemicals.

The issue is not in this country, but where they originate.

I am saying, you must have a voice gore, those who export these chemicals, you must start control ya tsone gone kwa.
That is why ke re border control ya rona, yes, it is okay, we will control them, but let us also send a message there gore kana ke lona ba le simolodisang these biological weapons.

I do not think that is misleading.

MR KEORAPETSE: Elucidation.

Kana concept e o e buang Honourable Tshabang, e tshwana fela le yone ya arms embargo kana ya to control the sale ya weapons go ya kwa mafatsheng a mangwe.
There is a need ya gore, during the reign ya Labour Party, ba ne ba bua ka mo ba reng ke Ethical Foreign Policy.

Se o se buang ke gore a ba nne le Ethical Foreign Policy ya gore they will not export some of these harmful chemicals to developing countries.

The other point that you made ke ya border controls, gore jaanong fa re ka tswelela re na le these porous borders tse go itsenelwang jaaka go batlwa, kana go raya gore le tsone chemicals tse di ka tsena fela ka yone tsela e e ntseng jang.
The same way we are being used as conduit tsa drugs le illicit financial flows.

O e tshwere sentle mokaulengwe, ga gona le fa e le to mislead gope.

Ke wena Chemist fa yo re tshwanetseng gore re mo reetse thata.

Ke a leboga.

MR LUCAS: Further elucidation.

Ke ne ke reeditse fa Mothusa Tautona a akgela mo kgannyeng e o e buang ya gore re tshwanetse ra nna le lentswe.

A kaya gore re ka nna le lentswe, mme go tswa fela gore re na le dithata tse di kae mo lefatsheng.
Ka fa a neng a utlwala ka teng, go ne go utlwala boitlhobogo jo bo neng bo gakgamatsa.

Boitlhobogo jwa ngwana a bua gore, fa botate ba buile, ke tlaa reng tota.

Re tshwanetse ra itse gore re na le fora tse dintsi thata tse re tshwanetseng ka tsone ra ntsha dikgang tse.

Forum ya ntlha ka ya mafatshe a Africa, African Union (AU).
Re tshwanetse ra dira maiteko a gore re ipope re le mafatshe a Africa, gore fa go na le dikgang tse di re kgethololang, re di kopanele re kgone go isa lentswe la rona kwa UN, World Economic Forum le tse dingwe, gore nnyaa, ga re batle go tsewa jaana.

Lentswe leo ga le utlwale sentle go tswa mo Africa le mo Botswana.

Moo ke sengwe se re tshwanetseng re se tlhwaafalele.

Ke a leboga.

DR TSHABANG: Thank you Honourable Members.


Ke tsaya gore you were just wrapping up the gist of my argument, gore the originators of these chemicals le bone a ba fiwe lentswe gore nnyaa, kana as much as rona re le the third world, we are just recipients, these chemicals and biological weapons di tswa kwa go lona.
It is strange that o fitlhela African countries are accused of civil wars, and the weapons they use originate in those countries who on the other side claim ethical standards, but they still produce these weapons.

I think the import of my argument ke gore, nnyaa, le bone a re ba boleleleng.

Use the right fora gore nnyaa, ke lona le re ganyaolang, the originators, ke lona who are manufacturing these chemicals.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): Thank you very much Honourable Speaker.
Ke latlhele mo molaong o, tota e tshwana fela ka boraro jwa yone ya biological, chemical and nuclear weapons, ke o ema nokeng ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Bakaulengwe ba setse ba e buile, Honourable Dr Tshabang o e buile le beke e e fetileng, o ne a setse a sobokile fa re bua ka biological.

Le Dr Letsholathebe o a buile.

Jaanong ke batla go itebaganya thata le botsogo in relation to this law ya the Chemical Weapons (Prohibition) Bill e e fa pele ga rona gore re ka dira jang gore re fokotse kgotsa re… Uhuu!
nako ya me e fedile ka bonako jang Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Nako ya gago e siame.

MR TSHERE: Ee, jaanong e nkgaotse pelo.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re ke latlhele mo go yone ka gore go buiwa ka metswako e e ka dirisiwang le botlhole jo bo ka dirisiwang bo tla bo tshwerwe, bo tla go ntsifadiwa mo lefatsheng la Botswana ka tsela nngwe, go re ama re le bantsinyana.

Le tsone chemicals Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re ke di bua ke lebeletse botsogo.
Chemicals re lebeletse le melemo ya sepatela e go lebegang gore jaaka Motlotlegi Dr Tshabang a ne a bua maloba, le nna ke utlwa dikgang tse on street.

Ke utlwa batho ba mpolelela gore wena Honourable Tshere o worried ka COVID-19, the next pandemic e e tlang e le mashetla e bile ke ya drug abuse le the use of these chemicals go dira metswako ya drugs jalo.
O tlaa itse gore Mr Speaker, kana drugs tse re di tlwaetseng re di itse go tswa kgakala jaaka cocaine, tsa di seterata tsone tse, these drugs fa di setse di tlile, they are chemicals ka gore fa di tswa fa, to determine gore ke drug ya mofuta mang, o tshwanetse o ye to the 7 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022CHEMICAL WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

45 OF 2021) Second Reading laboratory (lab).


Fa o tsena at the lab, go raya gore le yone e na le profile ya tagi eo, ya cocaine for example.

Jaanong e tlaabo e re fa e le gore o tshwerwe ka cocaine kana powder e o ka reng cocaine, fa e tlhatlhobiwa e bo e fitlhelwa e le gore e tshwana le profile ya cocaine, ke gone fa molato o nnang teng gone foo Mr Speaker.

Molato wa teng o very heavy ka melao ya rona ya Penal Codes.
Jaanong dirukutlhi tse Honourable Dr Tshabang a buang ka tsone di itse melao e gore e botlhoko jang e bile you can spend 25 or 30 years in jail.

So ga ba sa tlhole ba ya kwa go bo cocaine, ba a itirela jaanong; ba itirela metswakonyana e ka chemicals tse di tsenang.

Fa go tshwarwa ka tsone fa gotwe go a tlhatlhobiwa at the lab, ga se sepe fela se e leng gore is classified already jaaka ke bua gore lab e tshwanetse e bo e bua gore fa gotwe cocaine, go tewa e lebega jaana; chemical.
Jaanong ga go lebege e le drugs tsa mofuta oo, go lebega go itiretswe.

Go itiretswe jaana e le gore gongwe ke concoction fela go tsentswe bo antiretroviral (ARV), bo tipi ya mokwatla and all sort of things that you can lay your hands on, and then e bo e nna sengwe se se tagisang kgotsa se dira sengwe mo mmeleng.

Jaanong selo se ke jone bothata fa ke utlwa nna mo seterateng gore this is where the real problem is, e e leng gore e teng mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Honourable Mma Monnakgotla jaaka a tswa mo Komiting ya Botsogo a ne a ntse a na le rona, o ne a na le lentswe le letona mo komiting mabapi le bolwetse jwa tlhaloganyo.

Jaanong gompieno jaana go supagala gore re ne re bua re ntse re re mo Palamenteng re tlaabo re re kana COVID-19 go ne go le leuba, batho ba latlhegetswe ke ditiro ka jalo jaanong ba tsenwe ke bolwetse jwa tlhaloganyo ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, Sbrana Psychiatric Hospital e e kwa Lobatse e tletse.
Mma Monnakgotla o tshwenngwa ke kgang yone e ya gore Sbrana e a tlala ka tsela e e kwa godimo, e bile o kopile thata gore komiti ya Palamente e ye teng go bona ka matlho.

Re mo solofeditse jalo gore e tlaa re fa nako e bonala, re ye go bowa teng ka gore le nna ga ke ise ke ye teng.

Mme fela ke a utlwa gore bolwetse jwa tlhaloganyo bo ya kwa godimo and this is the real pandemic e e yang go tla.
Jaanong ke buisiwa se ke di lomaganya le molao o wa chemical ka gore Mr Speaker, kana go raya gore fa ke re ga di kgone to be traced, go raya gore ke chemicals fela tse re ithekelang.

E bile bogolo segolo ke di tshwaraganya le melao ya melemo, melemo e re e dirisang kwa sepateleng.

Kana o tlaa itse gore some of the addiction e ntsi thata mo mafatsheng a mangwe ke ya melemo e re e fiwang kwa sepateleng; prescription drugs.
I think you will recall Mr Speaker, go ne go na le Grand-Pa, e le gore gantsi re opiwa ke tlhogo.

Mo Palamenteng ga e nke e nkopa thata mme fa ke bereka kwa Marina e ne e nkopa.

Ke ne ke itse gore ke opiwa ke tlhogo, beke ga e ka ke ya feta ke sa opiwa ke tlhogo.

So re ne re nna re nwa di Grand- Pa, until everybody a nna a na le Grand-Pa mo pateng ya gagwe, mo o neng o ka se ke o nne o sena yone.

Ke yone addiction eo but it is because of the drug e o neng o e fiwa kwa sepateleng.
Jaanong selo se I link them Mr Speaker, gore a re di eleng tlhoko.

A re eleng tlhoko, re dirise melawana e e teng e e kwa ntle ga Penal Code jaaka re e itse, melao e tshwana le chemical weapons ka gore ke weapon fa e le gore batho ba rona ba a go nna weak and then ba senyega tlhaloganyo.

You will never know, gongwe it is perhaps an idea ya lefatshe le lengwe gore le tle le kgone to weaken our men gore fa re ya kwa ntweng, e bo e le gore ga ba sa tlhole ba le teng.

Re a itse techniques tse di a dirisiwa.


Gongwe o kgona go tsenya masole a gago mala, re itse gore re a le tlhasala kamoso, e bo e le gore jaanong they are unable to fight.

So dilo tse re tshwanetse re di lebelele ka bone batho ba ba disgruntled ba scientists ka gore go diriwa ke scientists.

They mix dilo tse, ba itirela mo matlong a bone, crystalise it go nna white-nyana, o bo o tsenya mo dipolasetekeng and give to our youngsters and distributing to the people.
Jaanong we have that problem e tona e re tshwanetseng re dirise yone melao e ya Chemical Weapons (Prohibition), molao wa Botswana Medicines Regulatory Authority (BoMRA) under Medicines and Related Substances Act.

E tshwanetse e tsene mo tirisong, re bone gore re lwantsha seemo se sa drugs tse di itirelwang jaaka ke bua.
Tse e leng gore from chemistry point of view, ga re di itse, ga re itse gore ke dife, ke concoction fela e e itiretsweng foo e o ka se keng e bile o tlhalose le leina la yone scientifically mme batho ba a di dirisa mo toropong le mo metseng e e ntseng jalo.

Molao o ke o amogela ka tsela e e ntseng jalo gore o re thuse, le bone ba rona ba mapodise o ba thuse ba tshwaragane le ba Chemical Weapons (Prohibition) e e ntseng e buiwa ke Honourable Mmusi.
Ke bone maloba gore e kwa Botswana Defence Force (BDF), e e buang ka Nuclear Radiation and Chemical and Biological Weapons Prohibition.

A re nonotsheng lekalana leo mme e bile le tshwaragane thata le ba Narcotics Unit mo Botswana, ba tshwaragane le ba BoMRA ba e leng gore bone ba na le melao e e thata tota.

Kana Palamente e e fetisitse melao ka 2013 e e amang Medicines and Related Substances Act, tiriso botlhaswa.
Ke gore tiriso ya melemo le tiriso botlhaswa ya melemo, le go sa 8 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022CHEMICAL WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

45 OF 2021) Second Reading tshwara melemo sentle, ke dilo tse e leng gore they are spelt out clearly mo molaong one o wa Medicines and Related Substances Act of 2013.
Melao e Mr Speaker, fa re ka e tshwaraganya yotlhe, ke gone re ka kgonang gore re heme seemo se re se bonang e le botsogo jaanong jwa tlhaloganyo, jo bo yang kwa godimo ka dipalo tse di kwa godimo thata mo e leng gore mo botsogong go a re tshwenya, ga re itse gore go ya go felela kae.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, not only melemonyana yone e e e leng gore it is mixed and crystalised, mo gongwe ke melemo fela e re itseng ya flu; a flu syrup.
You will get people nowadays ba a nwa molemo o wa flu, syrup fela e re e itseng e le gore it is an intoxication agent mo go bone, e nna o kare ke gone gore jaaka o nna le pluck ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

So dilo tse di a tshwenya Mr Speaker, and ke sone se o bonang ke tshwaraganya melao e yotlhe ke re a re e tshwaraganyeng.
O se ka wa ema ka molao wa Penal Code o le nosi, fa o setse o re o o sala morago, o ya go fitlhela e le gore drug e e tshwerweng fa e re sa itseng gore ke eng, ga e yo mo molaong oo, therefore ga o ka ke wa tshwara motho wa teng.

Ga a na go tshwarwa, o tsile go nna a tshwarwa a tlogelwa, a tshwarwa a tlogelwa ka gore ga re itse gore re ka dirisa melao ya mofuta mang mme melao e le yone e ya chemicals.
Melao e le yone e ya tiriso botlhaswa ya melemo kwa dipateleng le go tshwara botlhaswa melemo re le dingaka kwa clinics tsa rona, go tshwara botlhaswa kwa pharmacies tsa rona, melemo e e felelang mo diatleng tsa batho ba e leng gore ga ba a tshwanela go nna le yone.

Ke yone kgang e tona e ke neng ke batla gore ke le e lebise Mr Speaker.

Dilo tse jaaka Honourable Tshabang a ne a bua, di batla detection.

Re tshwanetse re di lemoge either at the border.


At the border go motlhofo, re lemoga ka invoice e e tsenyang dilo tse.

Gape le rona we have to develop botsipa within organisations tse.

Re lemoge intelligence ya maranyane a, go supa gore gompieno jaana go dirisiwa eng gore go dirwe substances tse ke buang ka tsone tse.

E nngwe fa e tsena at the border, re bo re lemoga gore substance e, e tsena ka bokete, mme e dirisiwa mo golong mo go ntseng jang.
Re kgone to trace it fela all the way to the lab, to the user, to whoever, le melemo ga e neelwa Mr Speaker.

Gompieno re santse re le relaxed thata ka melemo.

That is why go na le molemo o o tlwaelesegileng thata wa Benylin 4 Flu.

Right now o ntshitswe under prescription drugs, mo e leng gore you can get it over the counter and it is now a drug of choice for many people.

O o reka gone kwa, o a robatsa, o a reng, e bo e le gore it serves the purpose.
Kamoso o fitlhela melemo ya Benylin 4 Flu e sa nne mo shelf at the pharmacy.

E nna e feta fela ka bonakonako.

The person who is running the pharmacy o tshwanetse to alert gone foo gore o lemoga gore go na le melemo ke e, le fa go ntse gotwe dilo, malatsinyana a fa a e baya mo shelf, e a nyelela ka bonako.

Batho ba e reka gone foo.

Dilo tse fa re ka se ke re nne le tough control measures on chemicals and medicines, then we are running a problem Mr Speaker.
That is why batho ba kgona go itirela dilo tse and run a very serious risk of mental health problems and perhaps society ya rona lose banana especially because golo mo go common mo go bone.

Banana ba e leng gore we are looking up to them as the workforce of tomorrow.

Ke bone ba ba amiwang ke dilo tse.

Ga ke bue ka badisa kwa merakeng, ke bua ka banana ba ba berekang gone fa.
Gentlemen and ladies ba e leng gore unfortunately find themselves in these things tse e leng gore lefatshe la Botswana ga le a ka la ba sireletsa enough gore ba se ka ba amana le tsone.

Ke tsone tse di ntshwenyang Mr Speaker from botsogo point of view, le molao o wa Chemicals and Weapons.

MR MOATLHODI: Clarification.

Ke a leboga rraarona Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Mahalapye Bophirima, Honourable Tshere.
Ke tshwenngwa ke lefoko le o reng ga o bue ka badisa, o bua ka banana.

Fa o rialo, I understand you to be saying, you are attaching the importance to badisa and yet they are looking after our wealth.

Ke kopa o e tlhatswe mokaulengwe.

MR TSHERE: Thank you very much honourable.

No!

No!

Ga ke reye jalo.

Gakere fa gongwe fa re bua ka dilo tse di maswe tsa eng, re le batho re tlaabo re akanya gore ke dilo tse di diragalang koo fela, tse e leng gore ga o na sepe le tsone.
I think fa ke dirisa lefoko, o se ka wa akanya gore it is a far up reaching and extreme, no, it is right here fa gare ga rona.

It is a challenge that we have to accept and re bone gore re ka e dira jang.

Ke rotloetse thata Honourable Mmusi, ke wena o tshwereng dikgang tse.

O tshwere Biological, Chemical and Nuclear, ke dilo tse di tsamaelanang.

A re tshwaraganeng le ba Botsogo.

Ministry of Health and Wellness le one jaaka ke tlhola ke bua, addiction is a medical issue, it is not a criminal issue.
It should be treated from the medical point of view.

9 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022CHEMICAL WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

45 OF 2021) Second Reading Ministry of Health, BoMRA and this unit e e buang ka melemo ya chemical weapons, they should work together and ensure gore motho ga a tswe motlhofo fela gotwe o ne a itirela dilonyana, substancenyana ga re itse gore ke eng, o a bona.

Then e bo e le gore somebody get away with that.


Ke sone se ke lekang go se gatelela mo letsatsing leno fa re bua ka molemo o wa chemicals.

Ke metswako e e itiretsweng, e re sa itseng gore ke eng, e e amang banana ka tsela e e gakgamatsang.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, I support molao o gore le one o tsene mo tirisong.

O tle o re thuse dikgang tse di amang botsogo Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Tshere.

Honourable Mmusi, reply to the debate.


MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke lebogela dikakgelo tse ke di utlwileng mo go Honourable Dr Tshabang le Honourable Tshere mo molaong o. Ke tlatse gore Honourable Tshabang o ne a bua gore tota re bone gore re leka go lwantsha chemicals tse gore di se ka tsa tsena mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Botlhe tota ba ne ba bua.


Ke bue gore Lephata la rona la Chemical, Biological, Nuclear and Radiological Weapons, Management Authority le bereka le maphata a mantsi a ga Goromente.

One of them e le la Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS).

They train ba BURS at the borders gore they must try to identify and detect some of these chemicals tse re sa di letleleleng.

Ke tlhalose gore re tsweletse jaaka ke ne ke bolela, le jaaka Honourable Tshere a ne a bua.
Ke boletse gore lephata le has already now started to engage and there is buy-in from quite a number of ministries that deal ka dikgang tse.

Re tsweletse re le lephata go rutuntsha, go bontsha batho borai jwa gore re tshwanetse re tlhokomele dikgang tse.

Dikgang tse le di buang ke a di lebogela, e bile ke a di amogela.

Le rona re tsweletse ka kwano, re a leka thata gore re dire, re setse re le mo tseleng.
Ke bue gore e nngwe e ne Honourable Tshabang a bua gore re ntshe lentswe fa re ntse re buisana le bagarona, ke bolele gore le rona we attend state party conferences and meetings.

Mme koo tota re a leka thata gore re ntshe lentswe la rona, re beye mabaka a rona, a tsone dikgang tse.

Mr Speaker, ka one ao, I beg to move that the Chemical Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

45 of 2021), be read the second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee – Later Date.


NUCLEAR WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

46 OF 2021) Second Reading MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, the objective of the Bill is to align the Nuclear Weapons (Prohibition) Act with the Counter Terrorism Act.
The Bill has two Clauses, summarised as follows Mr Speaker: Clause 2; deletes the definition of proliferation financing and; Clause 3; amends the Nuclear weapons Prohibition Act by substituting Section 5 which prohibits the use of nuclear weapons with a new section that aligns the provisions of Section 3 and 5 of the Counter Terrorism Act which prohibits acts of terrorism.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Nuclear Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

46 of 2021) be read a second time.


MR MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mma ke supe jaana gore ke dumalana le ditshutiso tse di sa tswang go bewa fa pele ga rona.

Ke tsaya gore re le lefatshe la Botswana, le rona re batla gore mo isagong, e bo e le gore gongwe re ka dirisa the nuclear materials, mme re di dirisa ka fa go leng bonolo ka teng.
Go botlhokwa thata gore melao e e ntseng jaana, jaaka ba mafatshe a sele ba supa gore re tshwanetse go baakanya melao ya rona, ga re re dire jalo ka gore re a bo re solofetse gore e tlaa re mo isagong, go bo go tlhokafala gore re dirise dingwe tsa nuclear materials.

Ke bua jalo ka gore fa ke ka fa sekai mo lefatsheng la Botswana, go na le kwa go setseng go bonwe uranium teng e e leng dingwe tsa materials tse di ka dirisiwang mo nuclear weapons.

Jaanong go botlhokwa.


Ke bua jaana e le gore uranium e bonwe kwa kgaolong ya me kwa Serule, mo bangwe ba dikompone ba setseng ba filwe mining license ya gore gongwe ba ka simolola go epa uranium ya go nna jalo.

Jaanong go botlhokwa thata gore mo nakong ya gompieno, melao yone e e beilweng fa pele ga rona, re bo re ka e baakanya ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, gore e se ka ya re fa re ntse re tsamaya, go bo go na 10 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022NUCLEAR WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
46 OF 2021) Second Reading le kwa re ka kgoreletsegang teng ka gore go tshwanetse gore go nne le a peaceful use of these nuclear materials e re ka e dirisang jalo in producing nuclear energy, medicine and technology.

Re e dirisa ka bonolo.

Ke gone mo ke supang gore go botlhokwa go dira ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Ke ne ke sa batle go bua ka boleele ka gore e tsamaelana le e e fa morago.
Fela jaaka batlotlegi ba ne ba tshwaela mo go tse dingwe, selo se se tshwenyang thata ke gore gongwe jaanong jaaka go buega gore graduates tsa rona tse e leng gore ga di bone ditiro jaaka scientists, gongwe la bofelo jaanong fa go sena tsela e ba ka thusiwang ka yone, ba ka felela ba dira tsone dikgang tsa go nna jaana, e le gore now they are stranded.
Ke dingwe tse e leng gore gongwe ke iteele kobo moroko foo, gore go botlhokwa thata gore dikgang tse re bo re ntse re di lebelela ka leitlho le le tseneletseng gore e tle e re motlhang diemo di nna ka tsela e sele, re bo re ipaakantse re le lefatshe.

Ke re ke tshwaele go le kalo Mr Speaker.

OF MINISTER LOCAL ASSISTANT GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Good afternoon Mr Speaker, ke dumedise le batlotlegi botlhe.

Tshutiso e e beilweng fa pele ga rona Mr Speaker, ke e ema nokeng.
Nuclear weapons ke dilo tse di borai thata tse di kgonang go nyeletsa batho ba ka nna one to two million.

Jaanong kana go raya gore Batswana go tlaabo go ile fela jalo ka bone.

Ke bue gore ba lekgotla la United Nations (UN) ba supa go na le about 13 400 nuclear weapons mo lefatsheng ka bophara, mme e le dilo tse di borai.
Mr Speaker, UN Security Council mo mafatsheng a a tshwanang le bo United Kingdom, United States of America, Russia, China le bo France, ba bone go le botlhokwa gore ba emise tiriso ya tsone dilo tse (atomic weapons) mo lefatsheng ka gore di borai.

Mr Speaker, go monate gore re le Mapalamente, re bo re bua ka dilo tse di ntseng jaana, tse di borai mo nakong ya gompieno re le mo Palamenteng.
E bile ke bue gore kana dilo tse di ntseng jaana, go na le mo gotweng madi a a tlhatswitsweng fa a ka tsena mo lefatsheng le tshwana le la rona le, mme bile e le gore batho ba ba tlile to sponsor tsone terrorists, go ka nna borai fela thata go tla go dirwa weapons tse di borai tse.

Go bo go nna bokete mo lefatsheng la rona.

Mr Speaker, tla ke bue ka tshwaelo e nngwe e tota e e ntshwenyang ke le ngwana wa Motswana kwa Maun, Francistown, Hukuntsi le Gaborone.
A Tona a lebelele masole a a duleng mo tirong, bogolo jang a a duleng pele.

E bile re a itse gore masole ba tshwanetse go tswa ka boitumelo, ga ba a tshwanelwa go tswa ba na le sekgopi mo tirong ya bone.

Mr Speaker, re a itse gore masole a rona a Botswana, ba kile ba ya go thusa kwa dintweng kwa bo Somalia in 1992-1994.

Ba kile ba ya go thusa kwa dintweng mme ba santse ba na le sengwe mo dipelong tsa bone.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke na le mongwe wa masole ka weekend kwa Mogoditshane, a bua gore ga a itumela.
Ke selo se se borai mo lefatsheng la rona.

A Tona a lebelele selo se gore masole a a tlogetseng tiro, ba tswa ka boitumelo ka gore ba kgona go nna borai mo lefatsheng la rona.

Ke sone se ba tshwanetseng gore ba tlhokomelwe, welfare ya bone e tlhokomelwe fela thata.

Mr Speaker, re a itse gore mafatshe a mangwe a a tshwanang le bo North Korea, ba ganeletse mo dilong tse di ntseng jaana.

Gompieno jaana fa ba re they export dijo le minerals tsa bone, go nna bokete.
Kana re tshwanetse go bereka le mafatshe a mangwe.

Ke bua jaana ka sesole ka gore go na le bomme gompieno mo sesoleng.

Jaanong ke batla gore e re fa ba tswa mo sesoleng, ba tswe ka boitumelo.

E bile kana masole ke batho ba ba sireletsang lefatshe la Botswana.

Selo se fa Tona a ka se lebelela gore batho ba, ba se ka ba nna botlhabetsi mo lefatsheng la rona, go ka nna molemo ka gore ke ne ke na le ene kwa Mogoditshane Mr Speaker.
Fela jalo le madi a a tlhatswitsweng gore a se ka a tsena, a ka tlisa botlhabetsi.

Dilo tse ga re re di baakanye.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MOATLHODI: On a point of elucidation.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke e filwe mme ke e amogele, gatwe ke e atlarele.

O bua ka kgang e e amanang thata le pelo ya me Motlotlegi Mothusa Tona Mme Monnakgotla.

Fa o bua ka welfare ya masole ba ba tlogetseng tiro, ke dumalana gore o bua le ka kalafiso ya bana ya bone, their medical attention.
Ba bangwe letsatsi leno ga ba utlwe ke modumo wa ditlhobolo, ba bangwe ke ba na le bogole ba robilwe maoto ke marumo.

Fa o ka bona botshelo jwa bone o tlaabo o le pelo e thata fa e kare o mo leba wa tlhoka go rothisa keledi, ka gore le Ipelegeng ke yone fela e ba tshelang ka yone.
Kgang e ke kopa gore e re fa o na le Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona Mmusi, kwa le kopanelang diphuthego tsa bo Tona, o mo reye o re ga o tshwenyega o le nosi, le nna ke tshwenyega nao, 11 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022NUCLEAR WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

46 OF 2021) Second Reading le kwa settlements tota ba a tshwenyega.

Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Mmaetsho Tona.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Moatlhodi ka kgang eo.
Tota welfare ke solofela gore Tona o tlaa ya go e lebelela ka gore dilo tse re tshwanetse go di lebelela, di botlhabetsi, e bile di ka dira botlhabetsi mo lefatsheng la rona.

A masole ao a lebelelwe re ba reetse fa ba bua, a re ba utlwelele.

Ba bangwe ka kwa ba bua gore jaanong bo Mma Monnakgotla ba tlhatswa diwashene.

Ke ne ka reetsa pele ke le motho wa mme, ke reeditse rre yoo, a na le ngongora ka sesole.

Mme e bile e le gore o ka nna botlhabetsi mo matshelong a rona re le Batswana.
Masole ke batho ba ba sireletsang tšhaba ya rona.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, molao o jaaka o bua o tshwana le e e ntseng e feta ya Biological and Toxin Weapons Bill, le wa Nuclear Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

46 of 2021) o raya gore ke molao o o direlwang tota go sireletsa sika loo motho.
Jaaka re tshela re le batho jaana go na le ba ba ka nnang botlhaswa, mme ba fitlhela e le gore ba tsere matshelo a lebopo lefatshe lotlhe ka bophara, ka ditiro tsa bone tse di sa siamang, jaaka go ne go buiwa ka chemicals le biological weapons.

Mma ke itebaganye le ya chemical weapons, go maleba rra gore re nne le melao that regulates go tshwarwa ga tsone nuclear weapons.

Nuclear weapons rra ke lebagane le Clause 3 e e reng, the Act is amended for substituting for Section 5 the following Sections.
Go baakanngwa gone fa gore Act e bue e papametse mo number c, motho yo o dirang nuclear weapons le dithoto dingwe tse di amanang le tsone, o molato.

To manufacture dilo tse go molato, kana yo o amogelang dilo tse di dirilwe kwa di ka tswang di dirilwe teng, mo lefatsheng la rona go molato go amogela weapons tse.

Kana se se dirang tsone dibetsa tse se ka dirisiwa gape go dira dilo tse re di tlhokang mo lefatsheng la rona.

Se ka dirisiwa go dira motlakase, go dira dilo tsa botsogo, fela jalo, jalo.
Molao o o papametse fela gore re kgone go farologanya, o a bua gore fa o ka bo wa divert tiriso ya tsone tse ke neng ke di bua re di amogelang e leng motlakase, tsa botsogo, e bo e le gore jaanong wena Honourable Minister wa Energy Rre Moagi o go file licence, gongwe ya go dira motlakase, o bo o e divert o ya go dira nuclear weapons, go molato.

Molao o o dirilwe ka botlhale gore o kgone go itse gore motho o kgona go fetogela se a neng a se dirile.
Kana gone kwa a dirang motlakase teng a felele a dira nuclear weapons.

Jaaka Honourable Mathoothe… MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR MOAGI): Elucidation.

Ke a leboga Tona Molebatsi, o e tshwere sentle thata.

Ke rata thata ka gore e bile o kare o ne o tsena le kwa go reng e teng mo Botswana.

Fela jaaka o e tlhalosa, go botlhokwa thata gore se o letleletsweng go se dira, o dire gone, e seng sepe gape.
Golo fa re tshwanetse ra go gatelela gore re tle re itse dikotsi tse di ka nnang teng.

Le tlaa gakologelwa gore e ne ya re ka 2011 go ne go na le over supply ya uranium at the time, the world over.

Ke sone se se neng sa felela se dira dikotsi di tshwana tsa bo Fukushima Nuclear Power Station kwa Japan, se ne sa dira kotsi fela e e tsitsibanyang mmele.
Jaanong ke re go botlhokwa thata gore le gatelele ntlha e ya gore, o dire se o se letleletsweng, ka gore motho o tlaare ke dira se, rona re batla metlakase, ene a bo a ya go dira di sele.

Ke ne ke re ke tsene go le kalo Mr Speaker, thank you Honourable Molebatsi.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ke a go leboga Tona, o e tlhalositse tota ka boripana le botswerere.
Mr Speaker, gape ke ne ke re re lemoge gore, gone motho o kare a re o dira motlakase, kana go dirisiwa uranium, tsone dibetsa di dirisa uranium, motlakase le one o dirisa uranium.

Go na le mo gotweng radioactive fallout.

Go raya gore fa e ne e le gore o dirisa tse di dirang motlakase e bo e le gore jaanong di sala di phatlaletse kana di thunya, gore gone moo re nne re tle re farologanye gore re se ka ra re motho yo go raya gore o ne a ntse a na le maikaelelo a go thuntsha.
Ke raya gore radioactive fallout ke selo se se tlwaelesegileng thata.

Re se ka ra tloga re mo charge ka charges tse e leng gore ke tsa motho a ne a dira dibetsa.

Gongwe molao golo foo le gone o go tsenye leitlho gore go na le dikotsi tse di bitswang radioactive fallout, e se gore motho o ne a dira ka bomo.

Ke gatelele gore, kana these nuclear weapons ke dilo tse re di itseng.

Ke fe sekai, ka ngwaga wa 1945 kwa Japan, kwa Hiroshima le Nagasaki go kile ga tuka e le dibomo tsone tse.
Le gompieno go santse go buiwa gore matlhotlhapelo a teng kwa ntle ga go bolaya batho nako ya teng, le letsatsi leno ditlamorago tsa bomo e di santse di bonwa, di tsweletse.

Ke gore go dirilwe bomo fela e e ka ganyaolang batho, e bo e tswelele fela dingwagangwaga.

Ga ke itse gore 1945 go fitlhelela gompieno e tshwanetse e bo e le bo more than 70 years.

Ke batla go gatelela kgang nngwe e, mo puong 12 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022NUCLEAR WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
46 OF 2021) Second Reading ya me ya…(inaudible)… ke gatelele gore ke sebete se molangwana ka gore gongwe kgang ya me e tlaa tsamaya jaaka ya ga Dr Tshabang….

HONOURABLE MEMBER:…(Inaudible)… MR MOLEBATSI: Ke tlaa go neela ngaka.

Ba re nang le bone, re dumalana le bone gore tota dilo tse ga di a siama, mme bone jaaka ke ne ke bala mo number c, gore anybody who manufactures or who has these weapons o molato.

Le ba ba rialong, bontsi jwa ba re nang le bone ba na le tsone ba di bolokile.
Re a itse it is in the open gore the biggest owners or top 10 countries with nuclear technologies ke bone ba re nang le bone ba e bileng ba gatelela gore re se ka ra nna le dilo tseo, re tlaabo re dira molato.

Russia, United States (US), France, China, United Kingdom (UK) le India ba na le tsone.

Ke eng rona ba re senang natso re sa nne puo nngwefela gore a ba di nyeletse, re tshwane fela?

Ke gore go tshwana le fa o raya yo mongwe o re nnyaa ga o a tshwanela go nwa bojalwa mme wena o o nwa bojalwa.
Ga go a nna sentle.

Re tshwanetse re di nyeletse, re dumalaneng, re nneng seoposengwe re bue gore re nyeletse dilo tse.

Ke sone se se ntirang sebete se molangwana gore bone ba na le tsone, e bile ba na le melawana, ba na le tumalano ya bone yone e gotweng Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT)… MR MOTSAMAI: On a point of procedure Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, o tlaa mpaya mo tseleng fa e le gore ke dule mo tseleng.

Ke gakologelwa gore re dumalanye sentle fela maabane.

Maabane ke raya gore ga go bogologolo.


Fa go na le dikgang tse re di buang e bile e se tsa go akgola, e le tsa go kgala mafatshe a mangwe, ga go kaone gore thatathata re ba tsepolole ka maina, re ba tlontlolole, re ba ntshe mo Palamenteng.

O ne wa ba wa gakolola gore re leke gore ka bojotlhe jo bo rileng… ke gakologelwa Mokwaledi Mogolo wa phathi ya ga Rre Molebatsi a gakolola ka dikgang tse.
Jaanong ga ke itse gore a mogolo yo o tshwanang le Mokwaledi Mogolo fa a ne a ba gakolola ba tswelela ba tlolela jaana, a ke gone go sa tsaya ditaelo tsa gagwe?

Ba supa fela gore nnyaa o tlaa nna a ntse a tswelela a bua, rona ga re mo reetse.

Ke re a leke ka bojotlhe Mr Speaker gore a se ka a ntsha mafatshe ka maina mme a bua ka kgang e e borai jaana e e tsitsibanyang mmele.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, o mo utlwile.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ke tswelele Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Yes sir.


MR MOLEBATSI: Ke mo utlwile Mr Speaker.

Kana ke gore bo Honourable Motsamai wa Modimo fa gongwe e a re o bua jaana ba bo ba sa tlhaloganye gore gatweng.

Kana dilo tse dingwe ga se gore Palamente jaanong e re tswala ditlhaloganyo, re tshaba re bo re boifa le go bua dilo tse di mo mpaananeng.

These are issues that are in the public domain.

Ke a di bua mo Palamenteng ka batho ba a itse.


Ga go na motho yo o sa itseng the top countries with nuclear technologies in the world ka ranks tsa one.

Ke tsone tse ke neng ke di bua.

Le ngwana yo o kwa sekoleng o a itse o tlhola a reetsa dikgang gore Korea gatwe e na le nuclear weapons.

Jaanong fa ke le mo Palamenteng, ga ke a tshwanela go bua dilo tseo?
Gongwe o ne o sa tlhaloganye sentle maabane, go ne go tewa le tlaopa fela le bua ka dilo tse le senang bosupi ka tsone, o tla go bua ka lefatshe lengwe ka dilo tse di senang bosupi.

Ke na le bosupi ke ka bo ntsha bo teng jwa gore top countries with nuclear ke tsone tseo fa bo ka bo bo batliwa.

Ke tswelele Mr Speaker, ke re boammaaruri ke gore ke selo se se borai thata.
Mafatshe a a reng re boele kwa morago, gore dilo tse fa re ka nna le tsone re molato mme bone ba na le tsone gompieno, ga go nametse sentle.

Gongwe ba supe gore bone ka ba a itse gore dilo tse di borai, ba ya kae le go di nyeletsa mo mabogong a bone?

Re itse jang gore fa ba re gongwe re se ka ra di tshwara, letsatsi le ba re tlhaselang ka tsone re tlaa thiba re bo re thiba jang ka gore rona ba re bofile ka fa morago?

Tota ke yone tshwaelo e tona e ke neng ke batla go e dire.
Jaaka fa ke ne ke bua gore le fa ba bua gore nnyaa ba kgona gore ba itaole, regulate themselves ka ditumalano… nngwe ya tumalano ya bone e e itseweng thata ke e gotweng Nuclear Weapon Non-Proliferation Treaty, e e ba fang melawana gore ba itshware ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ba bangwe ba gana go e saena.

Ba bangwe le fa ba e saenne, ga ba e sale morago.

India e ganne go e saena.

Kana go tloga go sa tseye Rre Motsamai sentle, mme kana it is in the public domain.

Ba gana go e saena ba bangwe.


Ke batla gore ke gatelele mafoko a ga… MR MOTSAMAI: Point of order Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, o bona le fa o sa kgalemele Tona Molebatsi, o re tlhakatlhakanyetsa motshelo.
As the Minister wa lefatshe le, go buiwa ka dilo tse di borai tse di ka gatlampolang batho a bo a ya gore nna gongwe ke le Motsamai ke buisiwa ke botlhokakitso, ga ke itse gore o ntshekatshikile leng, a nkala leng, a bo a itlhoboga 13 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022NUCLEAR WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

46 OF 2021) Second Reading leng le gore a ke ene a abang dikitso?

Nna ke bona e le Tona fela wa jase.


Gompieno re bua ka dilo tseo re supa gore ga go a re siamela gore e re re bua ka mafatshe, re bua ka dilo tse di borai re bo re ba tsepolola, re bo re re go mo public domain.

Ga a na bosupi.

Ga a ka ke a ntsha dikgang tseo mo public domain e a buang ka yone Mr Speaker.

O senya international relations ya lefatshe la Botswana le mafatshe a mangwe, ke ntse ke le Motsamai wa Modimo ene e le Molebatsi wa ga diabole.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: …(Laughter!


)… I am sure Honourable Motsamai whatever the Minister said does not allow you to say wena o wa Modimo ene ke wa motho o sele.

It cannot lie within your province to say that.

You are becoming out of order.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Letsatsi leno ga ke itse gore ke eng.

Beke e ga e ntlele sentle e Mr Speaker.

Ke a tlhaselwa gotwe ke Minister wa jase.

Ke a amogela rra, ke Minister wa jase jaaka o bua.


Mr Speaker, gongwe ke re ga go reye gore molao o o raya gore re se ka ra tshwara sepe se se amanang le se se ka dirang nuclear weapons.

Ke gatelela se se neng se buiwa ke Honourable Mathoothe le Minister Moagi gore re na le uranium kwa Serule.

A re se kang ra e tshaba gotlhelele ka gore uranium e e ka dira di le dintsi mo lefatsheng la rona, gongwe ra export dilo tse di tshwanang le motlakase mo teng.
Gongwe fela mme re dumalane jaaka ke bone kwa mafatsheng a West Africa mangwe a a nang le uranium ba ikopantse ba dira mo gotweng West African Integrated Nuclear Power Group, gore ba dumalane gore rona re le kana we will regulate ourselves.

Mafatshe le tshwana le Benin, Burkina Faso, Ghana, Mali, Nigeria, and Niger go ka diragala jalo, re se ka ya re re le lefatshe re na le molao o, e le gore re o tshabela kgakala, ga re kgone go dira ditiro ka uranium ya teng.
Ke na le tshepho, gape ke rata thata gore ke bone moepo wa uranium o o kwa Serule, ke batho ga rona, ba ke itseng gore o ka tlhabolola motse wa teng gore mme batho ba se ka ya re re bua dilo tse ba reeditse ba le kwa Serule, ba re nnyaa owai, go tshabiwa nuclear weapons, go raya gore moepo wa bone ga o ka ke wa ya gope gore go tswelelwe fela go ntse jalo.

Ka a le kalo Mr Speaker, ke eme fa ke ise ke omanngwe thata.

Mr Speaker, molao o ke o eme nokeng thata, ke dumela gore o siame.
Ke a leboga, Modimo a tlhole le wena Honourable Motsamai tsala yame, le lona lotlhe.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): Thank you very much Honourable Speaker, ke ne ke re ke latlhele fela ka bokhutshwane mo go one Molao-kakanyetso wa the Nuclear Weapons Act.

Pele ke tlhalose jaaka bakaulengwe ba ntse ba bua gore, kana re dirisa yone radiation.
Radiation e ntse e le karolo ya molemo, like medicine for a long time, mme ntswa thulaganyo ya teng technology e leka go tswa mo radiation ka gore go dirisiwa mo ba go bitsang a Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) mo malatsing a gompieno where we do not use radiation.

Ke gone kwa re yang teng gone koo in terms of biological engineering and the use of radiation and medicine.
Ba leka gore ba tswe mo radiation ka gore re lemogile gore e borai le yone jaaka batho ba bua, jaaka o etle o utlwe gotwe nnyaa o se ka wa tla seiponeng, ga o ka ke wa dirwa seipone kgwedi le kgwedi jalojalo ka gore se tlogela marang a mangwe mo go wena.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, go borai, mme re a bo re di dirisa go batla gore re bone bolwetse ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Ke ne ke tshwenngwa thata ke mafoko a ga Tona wa Thuto e kgolwane le dipatlisiso boranyane jalo, a bua gore kana they abandoned, kana ga ba sa tlhole ba tswelela ba dira radiation storage facility kwa Pilikwe.

Ke amogela kgang eo ka gore Pilikwe re ne re tlhola re tshwenyega ka yone gore e gaufi thata, we were within 40 kilometres (km) of very dense populated villages like Palapye le Mahalapye.

Jaanong ga go ntshe thulaganyo ya gore re tlhoka kwa re ka re beelang radiation waste teng.
Go ntse go a tlhokafala jaaka go ne go tlhokafala fa le simolola le akanyetsa ka Pilikwe.

Go batla gore re akanye re tlhoafetse jaanong re batle lefelo le le maleba le e leng gore re ka tla go ya go baya radiation emitting equipment tse re setseng re sa tlhole re di dirisa, di santse di na le lifespan jalo, ka gore dilo tse tsa radiation jaaka o itse di na le lifespan.
Fa gongwe di kgona go tsaya 30 years go ntse go ntsha radiation fela ka bonya ka bonya gone foo jaaka ke kile ka bua pele, e tlaa re fa re sa itse gore ke eng, o tlaa bona ka go bona diphologolo di simolola di folotsa mo dikgaolong tsone tseo.

Ke tsone dilo tse e leng gore di amana le tsone dikgang tsa radiation.

Tona, a ko o e lebe thata ka gore nngwe ya dilo tse di amang thata mo go yone e ya radiation le proper handling of this radiation emitting material ke asbestos gompieno.
Kana gompieno jaana re na le asbestos classrooms tse re dumalaneng rotlhe gore di botlhole, re tshwanetse re di ntshe, but di eme foo kwa dikolong ga di ntshiwe, ka gore gatwe ga go na 14 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022NUCLEAR WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

46 OF 2021) Second Reading kwa re ka reng fa re dintsha re bo re di isa teng.
So go botlhokwa Tona gore kgang e o e tsibogele ka gore kwa Mahalapye East ke kgang e masisi, re batla go di ntsha, mme ga re itse gore disposal ya tsone re ya go di baya kae.

Ke seemo se se tshwenyang ka tsela e ntseng jalo.

Fela I support mogopolo o Mr Speaker.

Jaaka a bua, re na le uranium kwa Serule in that belt e e tsamaelang ka fa Kgalagadi, which is a very good radiation emitting, e kgona gore e ntshe radiation e ntsi thata.
Re boa re bona motlakase o e leng gore gongwe o ka ja half ya motlakase o re o rekang gompieno, half price ya teng o kgona go bona gore ke selo se se botlhokwa fa se dirwa sentle ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Mo ke go gatelelang thata ke gore, re le lefatshe la Botswana ga re mo seemong sa gore re ka dira dibetsa, gongwe re ka dira dibetsa tse di nang le war heads, re tsenye radiation kwa ditlhogong tsa missiles tsa rona.
Gongwe ga re na bokgoni joo right now, mme mo go botlhokwa mo mafatsheng a mangwe Mr Speaker, ke gore fa e le gore we produce uranium jaaka Honourable Moagi a tlaabo a e ntsha, fa a e produce, o e neela bomang, o e rekisetsa bomang.

Ke bomang ba re tsamayang le bone mo konterakeng ya go epa and export uranium?
Fa e le gore re ya go epa and export uranium, re sa lebelela gore re dira le bomang, we are going to contradict one molao o ka bo one ka gore re ya go iphitlhela re rekisetsa uranium ya rona e e tswang mo Botswana batho ba e leng gore ba ya go e dirisa to do yone kgang e re lekang go e kganela ya nuclear heads e bo e le gore jaanong lefatshe gongwe le tshwana le somewhere in the middle East Africa wherever kwa go lowang, they will be ordering uranium kwano ba e dirisa gore jaanong ba dire dibetsa tsone tsa mmolao wa kgailo.
So ga go reye gore you are clean jaanong ka fa tlase ga melao e ya mafatshefatshe gore wena mme o ne o rekisa uranium fela o ne o saitse gore e ya go dirisiwa for dibetsa, o ntse o molato ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Ke sone se re tshwanetseng re se ele tlhoko Tona bogolo jang Tona yo o lebanyeng le Tona Mmusi, e le wa tsone dikgang tse.
Tona wa meepo a lebelele dikgang tseo, gore e se ka ya re fa re tswa fa re bo re fitlhela e le gore nnyaa ga re dire weapon of mass destruction, ga re dire radiation bombs but we supply ingredients tse di dirang bombs kwa mafatsheng a mangwe.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification before you finish, clarification.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Tshabang.

DR TSHABANG: Point of clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.


Honourable Tshere ke a go utlwa sentle gore wa re rona we can produce electricity using yone uranium, mme kana go na le dikgang tsa gore the technology that we use to produce electricity, ga e falogane thata le technology that you can use to enrich uranium go dira dibetsa.
Do you not think if we apply for a license wherever kwa e kopiwang teng, o re o tlaa tla o ntsha electricity ka uranium, the head boys kana bo policemen of the world, ba tlaatla ba re nnyaa ga re ka ke ra go letlelela go dira motlakase wa uranium ka gore technology yone e, ke ntse ke yone e e leng gore somehow you are going to produce the nuclear weapons ka yone.

Do you think gone foo is a cash22 situation where bangwe ba ka gana gore e dira electricity because of the similarity in terms of technology?
Ke ne ke batla gore o ntlhalosetse gone foo fela.

MR TSHERE: Through the Speaker, o e beile sentle, e ntse fela jalo.

That is why gompieno jaana le lefatshe la Botswana; e le lefatshe fela le e leng gore le leka to embark kana go tsena mo dikgannyeng tse di amang radiation, mining first of all, second, enrichment of uranium to produce motlakase kana o dira bombs, lefastshe leo is vetted.
Gone jaana maAmerica ga ba ka ke ba go letlelela, ga ba letlelele, the western world... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.

MR TSHERE: ...some of the countries to have that; to even think of producing electricity.
That is why re le Botswana fa re batla to produce motlakase ka uranium and enrich uranium, then we have to get clearance with mafatshe one a a a buang a e le gore bone kwa go bone ba e tsentse leitlho tota ka gore ba re ga ba sure gore a o tlaabo o dira motlakase kana o tlile go felela o dira enriched uranium e e leng gore e ya go dira bombs ka gore process e tshwana fela jaaka Honourable Dr Tshabang a bua.

Let me get the clarification Honourable Speaker.

Thank you.
Thank you.

MR SPEAKER: Yes... MR TSHERE: ... le gore a o tlaabo o dira motlakase kana o tlile go felela o dira enriched uranium e e yang go dira bombs, ka gore process e tshwana fela jaaka Honourable Dr Tshabang a bua.

Let me get the clarification Honourable Speaker, thank you.

MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR MOAGI): Clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Thank you Honourable Tshere.


Nnyaa, mme le bua tsone tse di 15 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022NUCLEAR WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

46 OF 2021) Second Reading ntseng di lebilwe, di lebilwe ka gore dilo tse di a direga.

Ke gore le fa o ka lebelela kwa re tswang teng ka Bills tse re ntseng re bua ka tsone, Chemical, Biological, Nuclear, tsotlhe o ya go fitlhela e le gore ga di dire a primary thing fela, di na le dingwe tse di ka dirwang.
Tse dingwe di a thusa jaaka fertilisers, acid le tse dingwe, ke dilo tse di teng.

Dilo tse di a buisanngwa, that is why at the licensing stage, go nna botlhokwa gore jaanong re bo re di tlhalosa gore wena o ya go dira eng, go bo go nna le the monitoring e e dirwang gape se se teng.

Remember gape gore re na le Lekalana la Radiation, le le lebelelang dilo tse gore go ka tswa eng foo.

Kgantele motlotlegi mongwe o ne a bua gore a go se ka ga nna le fallouts tsa radioactive metals.
Ke tsone dilo tse di lebelelwang, go netefatsa gore ga go sepe se se ka tlang sa nna borai mo bathong, fa se le teng, le gone you will be vetted and sanctioned ka ditsela tse di lebaneng tse di mo molaong.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

I think o bolelela ruri Honourable Moagi, very important.

Point e ke neng ke batla go e gatelela ke gore, a re ele tlhoko gore people we are dealing with ke ba mofuta mang.
Fa e le gore we are going to deal le batho ba e leng gore bone fa ba tswa fa ba tlaabo ba re we are mining uranium, we are exporting uranium re sa ela tlhoko le gore links tsa bone di ntse jang, fa ba tswa fa uranium ya teng ba e isa kae, re ya go iphitlhela contradicting molao o, e le rona re ba fang uranium.

Mme uranium ya teng ga re itse kwa e felelang teng, e felela e dira bombs tse re sa di batleng Mr Speaker.
Jaanong ke re Tona a ele tlhoko ntlha eo, a e tsenye leitlho thata fa re setse re dira e. Fela jaaka Honourable Dr Tshabang a bua, golo mo is a closely guarded chapter mo lefatsheng ka bophara.

Ga go motlhofo gore o ka dira uranium kana mine uranium without attracting attention ya mafatshe a a kwa Bophirima, ka gore ba a itse gore borai jwa tsone bo fa kae, e bile ga ba letlelelwe.
That is why o bona bone ba re nnyaa, tsa rona re tlaa baya fela tse re nang le tsone, ga re na go di oketsa, lona le se ka la simolola, le se ka la re le a itirela ka koo.

Ee, ke botsotsinyana jo ba bo dirang, mme go na le mafatshe a mangwe a ba dirisang uranium e go dira motlakase jaaka Japan le a mangwe.

Go nna go na le dikotsi tse di borai mo go tsone dilo tse, mme at the end of the day jaaka ke bua, motlakase wa teng o cheap, very cheap.
Fa gongwe it is 1/3 of the price of the electricity that we are paying right now.

Tlhwatlhwa ya motlakase… it is actually one of the ways to get our electricity price down Honourable Moagi, apart from solar.

With those remarks, I thank you very much, I support the Motion, I support the Bill yes.

MR SPEAKER: It is true, it is still a Motion, you are right.

Honourable Minister, can you reply to this debate?

MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Tanki Mr Speaker.
Ke leboge the contributions which have been made by the Honourable Members.

Ke bue gore ba rona ba Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) weapons management authority, they are quite aware ka the uranium e e kwa Serule le Gojwane area.

Ga go ise go simololwe go epiwa, because of the low quantities.

They are aware, they are monitoring dikgang tse...(Interruptions)... Rra, gatweng?

MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)… wena tswelela.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wa re low quantities?

MR MMUSI: Ee rra.
MR MMUSI: Ee rra.

Legale, ...(Laughter!

)...mme gape ke bolelele bakaulengwe Honourable Members gore kana Botswana has ratified the Convention on Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons and is compliant to the various treaties and conventions tse.

So tota re le lefatshe le, re tsaya dikgang tse ka tlhwaafalo.

Le go tlhalosa gore kana uranium sales jaaka ba ntse ba bua, they are highly, highly protected and controlled.
Ke dilo tse e leng gore fa o bona le rona re tsosolositse lephata le in the ministry, it is to manage and to ensure that we are compliant, ga go rekisediwe mongwe le mongwe fela uranium jangjang.

Re tshwanetse re bone, re tseye ditshwetso tse di maleba, go bona gore people are licensed accordingly.

Se sengwe Mr Speaker, se ke ka se buang ka ga Honourable Mma Monnakgotla, o ne a bua ka masole.
Ke mo gakolole gore mo Ministry of Defence, Justice and Security, go na le lephata la Defence Mme Mma Monnakgotla, ka fa tlase ga Defence go na le Lephata le gotweng Veterans Affairs.

Lephata le le itebagantse le masole ba ba tlogetseng tiro ka bogodi, to address all their issues.

Bone masole a a tlogetseng tiro ka bogodi, ba na le association e e bidiwang gotwe Retired Military Association, e lephata la rona la Defence le bereka le bone nako le nako.
Le ba gongwe ba ka tswang ba se mo association e, ba a tla kwa Veterans Affairs go tla go baya dikgang tsa bone, go di tlisa gore di sekasekwe, di reediwe.

Le rona jaaka re ntse jaana, re simolotse lephata le because re tsaya masole a a tlogetseng tiro ka 16 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022NUCLEAR WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

46 OF 2021) Second Reading bogodi ka tlhwaafalo Honourable Member.
Ga se gore le rona re ba tsaya lolea fela re le ministry, re eme ka dinao to ensure that re lwantshe dikgang tsa bone re ba thuse fa re thusanang le bone ka teng, e bile ga re ka ke ra emela kwa morago fela.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le ba rekele washing machines.

MR MMUSI: …(Laughter!

)… Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Nuclear Weapons (Prohibition)... MR MOATLHODI: Clarification.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke a leboga rraarona.
Ke go botse Tona, kana go bua ka masole a a tlogetseng tiro, precisely tota re bua ka itsholelo ya bone, gore naare o a itse.

Ke ka go tsaya ka letsogo Tona, ka go isa Tonota, Borolong, Borolong jwa Tlhaloga kwa gaetsho kwa Chadibe, a o a itse gore banna ba ba sotlega mo e leng gore ba bereka mo Ipelegeng?

I am worried ka itsholelo ya bone.


Fa re santse re le foo Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona, ka Setswana ra re, “more wa gole o epiwa motlha wa tsholo.” Ka sesole sa rona se se kwa Mozambique, a o ka dira thulaganyo wa re tsaya re le Batlotlegi Mapalamente ra ya go bona bana ba rona?

Wa re etelela ra ya go bona bana ba rona gore ba tshela jang, ba tsogile jang, o rulagantse le borakgwebo, re tsamaya re ba tshwaretse mophuthelwana?

Ke sone selelo sa me Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona.


Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR MMUSI: Tanki Mr Speaker.

Kana Mokhurutshe, Tshwene, fa o utlwa ke go bolelela gore re na le Lephata la Veterans Affairs, le lebeletse dikgang tsotlhe.

Re a ipaakanya gore fa go nang le bothata teng, re address.

Jaaka re bua gore go na le ...(Interruptions)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr Speaker.
MR MMUSI: …associations, re a buisana le bone go lebelela gore tota re address dikgang tse tsa masole.

O ne a di beela kwa morago gore Bills di tle kwa pele.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR REATILE: Point of order.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Tla ke leboge Tona.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re ke gakolole Tona gore tota issue ya masole is not a subject matter mo Order Paper.

So dikgang tsa masole re tlaa tla re di bua le wena ka budget, jaanong we debate gotlhelele mo go se se leng mo Order Paper.
Fa e le gore jaanong re tswelela jaanong re tlile to debate, ga gona ope yo re tlaa amogelang submission ya gagwe ka fa e tlang e ntse ka teng Honourable Minister.

Ke ne ke kopa gore fela gore a re focus re tswelele pele, eo ya masole re tlaa e bona fa o setse o kopa budget.

Thank you sir.

MR MMUSI: Nnyaa, ke gore ke ne ke bone Speaker a mo letlelela fela Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang yole a bua... MR SPEAKER: Ke ne ke sa itse gore o tlaa bua ka eng.

MR MMUSI: Tanki Mr Speaker.


Nnyaa mme ke ne ke kopa gore ke digele Mr Speaker.

Jaanong ke... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, ke kopa clarification.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Khama.

MR KHAMA: Clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, jaaka ke ntse ke reeditse Tona a bua, fa a feta fa ka kgang ya in particular the disposal of nuclear waste.

Jaanong ga ke lebile in his Bill, under 3(e), if I can quote Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Yes, please do.


MR KHAMA: A re, “diverts nuclear energy from peaceful uses to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.” Jaanong re ne re ntse re bua ka uranium gore go na le moepo kwa Serule o o tsileng go e epa.
Tota re a itse gore uranium tailings, for example le reactive fuel fa le ya go dira motlakase ka uranium to do nuclear power, go na le fa e leng gore dilo tse di sa dirisiwang kana fa di feditse go diriswa kwa di latlhiwang teng, and we know that in some of this reacted fuels, they can remain active for up to a thousand years.

Jaanong potso e ke batlang go e botsa ke gore; has the Minister considered the disposal of not low grade reactive and uranium?
Ke raya gore the uranium which should be used out of the waste of the power generation facility because ga ke e bone in this Bill.

The protocols of disposal of uranium, uranium tailings and radioactive entities which are alive for up to a thousand years because go ne gotwe to dispose of them, go batla gore di ye go epiwa, o ye go epa lehuti, di bo di tshelwa mo lehuting, otherwise di tsena mo metsing.

17 Hansard No 204Monday 31st January, 2022NUCLEAR WEAPONS (PROHIBITION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
46 OF 2021) Second Reading So I want to know whether this Bill is holistic.

In other words, if you are looking at the situation from gravel to grave, from the beginning of the problem to disposing of the problem at the end.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MMUSI: Thank you Mr Speaker.

I think ke gore golo fa jaaka nne Honourable Reatile a bua, fa nne re tlisitse Bill e re tlisitse amendments tse pedi tse, mme gone ke utlwa Honourable Khama ka fa a buang ka teng.
Ke mmolelela gore gompieno jaana ka ke ne ka bua fa ke simolola gore re na le Lephata la Chemical Biological Nuclear and Radiological Weapons Management Authority, le e leng gore le buisana le maphata a a farologaneng a Puso to address dikgang tsone tse.
Jaaka ke ne ke bua gore lephata le la rona is aware of the mine wa uranium o o neng o buiwa kwa Serule le Gojwane area, mme ga ise go nne le sepe se se ka yang kwa pele mme re buisana le ba Department of Waste Management gore le bone ba simolole go ipaakanya in those areas.

Ke raya gore ke ka gakolola fela jalo gore le bone re buisana le bone to ensure that they adhere to the protocols tsone tsa go dispose uranium fa e simolola go epiwa, ka by that time re tlaabo re simolola go e ipakanyetsa.
Ke raya gore ke ne ke re ke e tlhatswe fela jalo Mr Speaker.

MR KHAMA: Further clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Nnyaa, Tona ga a nkaraba ka gore o isa kgang e go sele, ke batla go utlwa ka ene ka gore ke ene a tlang ka Bill yone e. So ke batla go mmotsa gore Bill e ka fa e ntseng ka teng, fa e le gore re ya go e fetisa gone jaanong, go raya gore maphata a mangwe a a lebaganeng le dikgang tsone tse, di tlaabo di saletse kwa morago and they will not be included in this Bill?
So ene he can enact the Bill without those other departments trained in this.

That is what I am particular asking into comment gore does this Bill take that into account?

E seng gore a bo a re nnyaa re ya go bua le ba bangwe.

Nnyaa, Bill yone e fa e le gore e ya go feta, you have not included any comment on disposal of nuclear waste in this Bill.

That is all I am referring to.

He can just acknowledge gore “yes” or “no.” Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MMUSI: Tanki Mr Speaker.


Ke tsaya gore ke arabile Honourable Khama gore ke a mo utlwa jaaka ke bua, kana Bill ya me e ne e tla ka amendments tse pedi mo molaong o o leng teng.

Amendments tse dingwe tsa bo disposal fa uranium e simolola go epiwa, di tlaa nna di ntse di tla.
Yes ke a dumalana le ene gore gompieno ga ke a di tsenya fa ka gore they were not part of what I am presenting mme fa go simolola go epiwa bo uranium le eng, re tlaabo re ntse re kopana gore a e e tla ka nna kana e tlaa tla ka a different Ministry wa Waste Management, e le gore le one o lebeletse.

Kana le one o tshwanetse gore o tle ka fa o tshwanetseng go tlhokomela ka teng.

Ke raya gore ke ka e baya fela jalo Mr Speaker.

Tanki.

MR SPEAKER: Continue Minister.

MR MMUSI: Thank you Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Nuclear Weapons (Prohibition) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

46 of 2021) be read the second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee - Later Date.

PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

47 OF 2021) Second Reading MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR MOAGI): Thank you Mr Speaker and good afternoon.
Thank you Honourable Members, good afternoon to you too.

Mr Speaker, I have the honour this afternoon to present to this Honourable House for Second Reading, the Precious and Semi-Precious Stones (Protection) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

47 of 2021).

The Precious and Semi-Precious Stones Act was enacted to protect the precious stones industry and regulate the trade in precious and semi-precious stones.

As you know, the trade in diamonds is the bedrock of our economy.
Mr Speaker, the amendments to the Precious and Semi- Precious Stones Act seeks to achieve the following: (1) To align the Act with Recommendation 28 of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) which requires member states to take measures to prevent criminal elements or their associates from holding or being a beneficial owner or significant shareholding or holding management function in Designated Non- Financial Businesses and Professions (DNFBP).
During the assessment of the Precious and Semi- Precious Stones (Protection) Act by the Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-Money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG), the reviewers found that the term fit and proper is not defined in the Act, even though there is a provision for the Minister to 18 Hansard No 204PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
47 OF 2021)Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 refuse to issue a Precious Stone Dealer’s Licence if he is not satisfied that the applicant is fit and proper person to hold the licence applied for.

fa dealership e tsena go sena those Clauses tse di teng gone fa, go ka baka borukutlhi.

Bangwe ba itirelela ka gore go tlaabo go sena sepe in place to control.
(2) (a) we seek to extend the fit and proper elements of a dealer in precious stones to Section (8) (2) to a dealer in semi-precious stones; and (b) to provide for suspension of a licence issued under this Act.
Mr Speaker, the following Clauses have been amended as a result of aligning with FATF requirements: • Clause 2 is amended by inserting new definitions “supervisory authority” and “investigatory authority,” • Clause 8 is amended by substituting for Subsection (2), a new subsection, • Clause 20 is amended by substituting paragraph (d) with a new paragraph that makes reference to a person referred to under Section 8 (2),” • Insertion of a new Clause 20 (a) that provides for a suspension of a Precious Stones’ Dealers Licence, • Insertion of a new Clause 35 (a) in the Act that provides for a suspension of a Semi-Precious Stones’ Dealers Licence.
Mr Speaker, I therefore move that the Precious and Semi-Precious Stones (Protection) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.47 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MAJAGA (NATA-GWETA): Thank you Mr Speaker and good afternoon.

Good afternoon Members of the National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, mma ke tseye sebaka se ke eme nokeng amendment ya ga Tona Moagi.
Mr Speaker, this is a welcome development, gape re lebile gore Bills tse jaaka di tlile mo Ntlong e, mabaka a matona ke gore, we comply with the international standards jaaka Mme Serame a bua.

Mr Speaker, this morning re ne re utlwa Chief Executive Officer (CEO) wa Okavango Diamond Rre Mmetla Masire a begela setšhaba ka this industry.

This amendment came at the right time ka gore go lebega Batswana ba leka go tsena mo the diamond business, ke rialo.
Even Government, ba simolotse ka 2012, 2013 go nna le dikompone tsa Batswana …(inaudible) … These dealership Clauses di a thusa ka gore gompieno jaana We know gore lefatshe la rona go tswa bogologolong re tlhabolotswe ke the semi-precious stones tse e leng gore mongwe o ka re diteemane le tse dingwe jalo.

Ka jalo, di batla tshireletso.


Tshireletso ya teng ke melao jaaka re bona Tona a tlile ka these amendments gore ga fa re ntse re tsweletse mo nakong, metlha le dipaka, re se ka ra dirisa melao ele ya 1960 le 1977 ka ditiragalo di setse di fetogile gompieno mo mafatsheng.

Jaanong go botlhokwa, go kaone gore re bo re tla ka these amendments.
Go lebega Batswana ba tlaa tsena thata into this dealership, fa go sena Clauses in the amendment like di dirilwe jaana, go ya go nna le mosuke kana mangwe maretshwa a a diragalang.

Ka jalo, we must guard against this because re itse gore they are auctioned.

These diamonds, business tsa teng COVID e teng kana ga e yo, tsone di kgona to be auctioned.
Ka jalo, re tshwanetse ra fetisa melao e e tshwanang le e e leng gore it is …(inaudible) … and safeguarding the interest ya lefatshe, tsa lephata le all the partners.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, it is a short Bill, let me not take much of my time on this one.

Go kaone gore even in future fa re bona Batswana ba tsene thata kana ka bontsi, re ba neele sebaka.

By so saying, I stand to support this Bill Mr Speaker.

Thank you.
Thank you.

MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you very much Mr Speaker and good afternoon.

Ke latlhela go se kaenyana fela, go le gokhutshwane mo Bill e Mr Speaker.

O tlaa gakologelwa gore mo Palamenteng ya maloba go kile go tla molao o o tshwanang le o, that was amending Precious Stones Act.

Ke ne ka ntsha kgang mabapi le to disqualify batho go lebilwe melato yotlhe fela ka kakaretso.

Re ntse re lebaganwe ke seemo se se tshwanang le se re neng re lebagane le sone nako ele.
Fa o lebelela Clause 3 ya this amendment Bill, paragraph VII ya re, fa e le gore mo dingwageng di le lesome tse di fetileng o kile wa bonwa molato mo Botswana kana kwa ntle ga Botswana, o o neng wa atlholelwa dikgwedi di le thataro without the option of a fine, ga o ka ke wa fiwa licence.
E rile ke ipaakanyetsa go bua mo Bill e Mr Speaker, ka ya go lebelela Section 176 (1) ya Penal Code e e buang ka common nuisance, gore motho wa common nuisance o ka atlholelwa 12 months imprisonment without the option of a fine.

19 Hansard No 204PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
47 OF 2021)Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 Jaaka ke kile ka gakolola Minister nako ele, ke batla gore Minister a gakologelwe gore go baya sebaka sa dingwaga di le lesome go go leele thata especially fa e le gore ga o fokotse melato e o e lebileng gore it can disqualify motho go tshwara permit.

Gore o bo o ka itsa motho gore a fiwe permit ya go gweba ka majwe a a botlhokwa ao, gore o kile a atlholelwa 12 months in prison wa common nuisance, ga go supe gore re dira molao ka kelotlhoko Mr Speaker.
We are behaving like a fishing trawler e e dirisang golo mo gotweng dragnet, ke gore o goga sengwe le sengwe se o kopanang le sone.

Ke batla go gakolola Minister gore amendment e a e dirang e, ke dumela a gwetlhilwe ke tsone recommendations tsa FATF.

Fa e le gore ke nnete o gwetlhilwe ke recommendations tsa FATF, FATF e itebagantse le melato e e specific; terrorism, money-laundering, proliferation and things like that, associated offences.
Ga e batle gore re itebaganye le magoboka a melato le bo common nuisance ba le mo teng.

Ka one mabaka ao Mr Speaker, ka re this paragraph is poorly drafted and the Minister needs to go back and redraft the paragraph, so that e itebaganye le melato e FATF e tshwenyegileng ka yone; terrorism, anti-money laundering, and so on and so forth, e seng sengwe le sengwe Honourable Minister Moagi.
Ke kopa gore re dumalane gore you will recast this paragraph otherwise ke ya go tsenya a notice of amendment Honourable Minister.

Ke dumela gore o tlaa dumalana le nna gore ke bua sentle ka gore wa re o lebeletse recommendations tsa FATF.

Jaanong itebaganye le melato e FATF e tshwenyegileng ka yone, mme e bile o bo o tlhokomela sebaka se o se beileng.

Legale mo go tsa terrorism, I would not mind 10 years, if you amend and restrict the provision accordingly.
Ke ne ke re ke latlhele go le kalonyana ka bokhutshwane Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga.

MR REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke leboge le Tona gore a bo a tlile ka Tshutiso yone e. Ke dumela gore go botlhokwa jaaka le maloba a tsweletse ka go baakanya, re ntse re mo ema nokeng, re tswelela re mo ema nokeng.

Tona, golo fa go lebega kgang e e kare kamoso e bo e re tsieditse.

Gongwe e batla re e bua re tlhaloganya tota gore re tswa kae re ya kae.
E ne ya re maloba fale, ka botsa gore fa ditshutiso tse o neng o tla ka tsone di bua ka gore diteemane di tshwanetse gore motho yo o tlaabong a di tshwere, e tlaabo e le yo o neetsweng teseletso ke the licensing authority.

Ke boditse potso ya gore fa re bua ka the licensing authority, re bua re lebile Botswana kana re lebile lefatshe lengwe le lengwe.
Se se ka diragalang Tona gompieno ka fa Honourable Kapinga a tshwenyegang ka teng, e kare mo gae re sa neela motho wa go nna jalo license ya to deal ka diteemane, e bo e le gore kamoso a bo a tswa go e tsaya kwa West Africa, Central Africa kana East Africa.

Rona motho wa go nna jalo fa a tshwere license eo, a tshwere diteemane tsa mo Botswana, kgato e o ka mo e tseelang ke efe, kana o itibisa go sele?
A e tlaare kamoso jaanong ba FATF ba re, go lebega e le gore batho ba ba sa tshwanelang go tshwara diteemane kwa lefatsheng la Botswana, ba felela ba ntse ba di tshwere, mme ga o ba tseele dikgato, o tlaabo o re no, ga ke a mo fa license kana motho was licensed by lefatshe la gore, mme e ne e le citizen ya gago?

Re tshwanetse gore kamoso fa re dira melao Tona, re e dire mo e leng gore ga re ka ke ra opisa batho ba boatlhodi ditlhogo.
E tshwanetse e re kamoso ba bosekisi, fa ba batla go sekisa motho wa go nna jalo, e bo e le gore ga ba sokole ba ntse ba re ba interpret melao.

Ba tlhamalala fela ba re dikgato tse di go lebanyeng ka fa tlase ga melao ya lefatshe la Botswana ke tse di ntseng jaana.

O a itse gore re tswa kgakala re le batho ba ba obedient, bo Kimberly Process Certificate (KPC), ke tse e leng gore we are the main subscribers tsa tsone, re itse gore they brand teemane ya rona go ya pele.
E bile gape o ntse o itse gore go na le nako e e neng ya re go buiwa ka KPC, ba ne ba re ba tlaa tla ka technology ya gore teemane ya Botswana e tlaa itsege ka gore e tlaare fa di feta jaana di le kwa sort house, e bo e le gore ba gasa ka laser e bo e supa gore Jwaneng, KPC.
Gore fa di bonwa kae kana kae, go bo gotwe certificate sa yone se kae, e tle e re fa motho a tshwarwa, a tshwere license ya kwa mafatsheng a bophirima, botlhaba kana legare la Africa, fa o re teemane e ke ya Botswana, a bo a go raya a re, e ga se ya Botswana, ke ne ke e tsaya kwa o bonang ke tshwere setlankana sa teng.
Go bo go raya gore jaanong ka gore koo ba a collude go raya gore diteemane tsa rona tsa Jwaneng kana Orapa, re felela re di bitsa gore ke tsa lefatshe le lengwe mo Africa yo o bophirima, botlhaba kana legare.

Tsone sentlesentle e le diteemane tse o neetsweng tlhokomelo ya tsone ka mabaka a gore that technology e ne ya se ka ya felela e tsweletse e ile pele.
Gongwe fa e ne e le gore technology eo e ne ya re go buiwa ka yone, ba felela ba e develop e bo e fitlhelela, re ne re itse gore ga go na ope yo o ka tshwarang diteemane tsa Botswana ka fa a tshwere license ya lefatshe le sele, a bo a claim gore diteemane tse a di tshwereng di tswa kwa lefatsheng lone leo, a re, ka gore wena o ne wa gana go mpha teseletso o le Honourable Moagi, I was licensed by ba lefatshe la gore, mme e bile le diteemane, I am in transit ke a feta ke ya go rekisa kwa Dubai, ke ne ke tsena fela ke tlhola 20 Hansard No 204PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
47 OF 2021)Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 bana, mme sentle e le diteemane tsa Botswana.

Gongwe o re bontshe foo Honourable Moagi gore sone seemo se, o ya go se tila jang.

O bo o re bolelele gore o ya go se hema jang, re itse gore fa re re re dira melao, ga e ka ke ya re kamoso re bo re boa re rwala mabogo mo tlhogong re re, mme gompieno fa they have dribbled us.

Re dire melao fela re le sober minded, re sa re ke dikgang tsa go siana marathon wa gore FATF e a bitsa.
Kamoso e bo e le gore melao e re e dirileng, re re re batla to comply le FATF, re bo re tshwara penalties ka gore re ne ra se ka ra ipaakanya ra bo ra tsena mo go tseneletseng.

Wena o ne wa nna fa fatshe le batlhalefi le baitseanape ba molao, ba diteemane ba go boleletse, o tlaa tla e re fa o araba, gongwe o tlaa mphatlholola ka fa ke fatlhilweng ka teng.

Ke bo ke tshwana le wena ke nna moitseanape jaaka o le moitseanepe jaana.
Ke akgelela fela mo go reng common sense e nthaya e re, wena o tlaa tla o araba ka gore nna dikitsokitso di nthaya di re.

Ke sone se ke neng ke re ke submit ka sone fa pele ga gago Honourable Speaker, motlotlegi o tlaa tla a di tlhatswa go ya pele.

Ka go rialo, ke a leboga Honourable Speaker.

MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Thank you Mr Speaker and good afternoon sir, good afternoon colleagues.
Mr Speaker, ke ema jaana le nna ke supa kemonokeng fela mo Bill e re sa tswang go e bewa pele ke Rraetsho Tona Moagi.

Ke batla go supa fela jaana gore Mr Speaker, ke boammaaruri re tshwanetse go tsenya leitlho le le tseneletseng segolo jang fa re bua ka ditswammung tsa rona re le lefatshe la Botswana, tse mafatshe ka bontsi a di meletsang mathe… HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR BROOKS: Nnyaa ke ipeotse, o raya ke go fatlha leng jaanong?
Dilo tse Mr Speaker, re tshwanetse go di ela tlhoko thata, re bo re lebogele Tona…gore re le lefatshe re tshwanetse gore re tle ka melao e re ka sekeng re iphitlhele kamoso re le mo dipharagobeng, re tlhokana le gore re tle ka melao gape e e tlaa sireletsang matlapana a ke sa tswang go bua ka one kana sepe sa ditswammung tsa lefatshe la rona.
Mr Speaker, le fa go ntse jalo re supe gore re a leboga, ke tshwanetse gape ka kopa Tona gore, Tona re tshwanetse e re re dira melao e e ke dumelang gore Palamente e re tsayang e le a special session, this very Parliament or sitting, re tshwanetse gore re dire melao re tla re lebelela gore mme gone batho ba lefatshe la Botswana ke ba ba itshwarang jang, ba mehuta e ntseng jang, ba mekgwa e ntseng jang.
E se re kgotsa re dira melao e e tlaa bayang bontsi jwa batho ba rona ka kwa mosing re lebile gore FATF ya reng.

Re lwa le go batla tsela nngwe ya go ka itumedisa FATF ka yone.

Re tlaabo re sa direle batho ba rona sentle Mr Speaker, fa e kare melao yotlhe ya rona e re e dirang go bo go nna jaaka e kete jaanong re batla go gagamatsa setoropo mo go tseneletseng mo bathong ba rona.
O tlaa gakologelwa sentle mongwame gore mo malobeng beke e e neng e feta re bua ka o mongwe molao, o ke neng ke bua ke lebile ba gotweng ba tlaabo ba tswa mo dikgolegelong gore ga ba ka ke ba re, ga ba ka ke ba re, I think ba dikereke jalojalo.

Ke batla go boa ke itebaganya le jaaka Rre Honourable Kapinga a ntse a bua.

Tota ke na le mathata a gore batho fa ba tswa ditoronkong ke gore ga re a tshwanela gore re ba neele sepe fela, ba rontshiwa sengwe le sengwe fela.
Kana ga se Palamente e atlholang, e bile ga e laole maikutlo a moatlhodi, e bile ga e na seabe sa go tsamaisa ditsheko tsa motho yo o tlaabong a atlholwa.
E re mororo re itse gore go na le tsamaiso ya gore fa o batla gore menwana ya gago e bo e ntshitswe mo sebalamakgolong sa melato, go na le tsamaiso e o e tsayang, but at the same time ga re a tshwanela gore jaanong re tle ka mo go tlaa rontshang motho to benefit go tswa mo go se se tlaabong se ka mo thusa gore a tshetse, a bo a tshetse le lefatshe la Botswana mo go direng ditiro tsa go ka nna le seabe sa go nna le teselesetso ya go ka rekisa le go tsamaisa itsholelo ya lefatshe ka thekiso ya diteemane.
Dilo tse kana sepe fela sa ditswammung, ke se ka ka itebaganya fela le diteemane, ke sone se ke reng re tshwanetse e re re dira melao e, re bo re lebile behavior, boitsholo jwa batho batho ba rona, re bo re tla re ba akanyetsa gore kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi re dira melao e e leng gore ga e ka ke ya ba baya gotlhelele ka mosing.
Fa e kare kamoso phakela go bo gotwe semangmang has slapped someone, o ile toronkong dikgwedi tse 12 mme motho a ne a na le tshwanelo kana a ne a na le bokgoni jwa go ka neelwa teseletso ya go ka rekisa ditswammung kana a bona a eteletse pele thekiso ya ditswammung mo lefatsheng la Botswana a e dira ka fa molaong, fela ka gore o ile toronkong go feta dikgwedi tse six, go raya gore o a rontshiwa.
Re tshwanetse go gakologelwa gore batho ba ba kwa ditoronkong bale ga se dieleele fela, go matlhale, lawyers, go bomang le bomang, matlhale otlhe, graduates ka go farologana di gone kwa toronkong, mme ba ile koo ka melato e farologanyeng.

Bangwe ba patelediwa, bangwe ba sa patelediwa ba dirile melato eo, go le ka fa molaong.

Ka ba ne ba tlhoka dithata tsa gore ba ka ithekela babueledi gore ba bo ba se fa ba leng teng, ba gone koo.

Jaanong a re se ka ra ba tswalela kwa ntle.


21 Hansard No 204PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

47 OF 2021)Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 Mr Speaker, ka mafoko a a ntseng jalo ke batla gore ke gatelele ntlha eo fela, mme re reye Tona re re, rraetsho re go ema nokeng provided matshwenyego a rona a e re re a bua jaana o bo o a tsaya tsia, o bona gore o ka dira efe tsela ka one.
Ga re reye gore you should compromise, but what we want you to do is for you to listen to what we are saying and understand exactly our interpretation Mr Speaker, because maybe somehow, somewhere it is either you or me yo e leng gore we do not interpret these laws ka fa di tshwanetseng gore di nne ka teng.

Somebody out there is the one who is going to suffer, he or she will definitely suffer, a sotliwa ke melao e re e dirileng ka January 2022.

Re e dira ka lebaka la gore re bua re lebile batho ba FATF.
Ke kile ka botsa potso ya gore are there terms and conditions tse re berekelang mo go tsone...

...Silence...

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Brooks, we have lost you, ga o utlwale.

MR BROOKS: Mr Speaker, ga ke itse gore ke setse fa kae, mme ke ne ke re re mo eme nokeng mo kgannyeng ya gagwe.

Ke lebala gore fa gongwe ke ka tswa ke kgaogile fa kae mongwame.

Ke re mme molao ke o rraetsho, o o dire sentle, o reetse dikgakololo tsa rona re le Mapalamente a bo twelve.

Reetsa se re se kopang rraetsho.


Ka mafoko a a kalo Mr Speaker, ke a go leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Brooks.

Honourable Motsamai.

MR MOTSAMAI (GHANZI SOUTH): Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.

Mma ke latlhele ka bokhutshwane fela ke re, ga ke ise ke nne le thulaganyo ya gore ke re ke dumalana le molao, mme ke na le thulaganyo ya gore pele ga ke ka bua dikgang tsa go ema nokeng, kana go sa emeng nokeng, ke ipotsa gore a molao o o direlwang dikgang tse tsa diteemane, a teemane ke a e itse.
A ke itse teemane, a Motswana wa kwa East, West Hanahai, Ranyane, Kole le Ncojane a o itse teemane Mr Speaker?

Kana maloba ke kile ka tla ka mogopolo e le potso, mme ka thelwa thura, ke supa gore kana sebaka se tlile sa gore lefatshe le le nne le lefelo le e leng gore ke centre ya go leka go ngoka bape ba ba tlaabong ba a ja nala e le Batswana, le ba mafatshe a a ka kwa ntle ba kgone go sosologa go bona teemane.
Ka ba ka bua gore, centre eo e ka nna le branches tse di ka tlhongwang lefatshe tšhikelele, mme ke ne ka tshelwa dithole Mr Speaker, gatwe ke bua ka dilo tse di tsweletseng.

Ke tsamaile le lefatshe ga ke bone sepe, ke gone mo go ntshitang gore e bo e re ke akgela mo kgannyeng e, ke bua ka melao ya mantswana a go tshwana le teemane, ke bo ke re ke ka dumalana fela, mme ke sa itse gore teemane go buiwa ka ga eng, e dira eng mo go nna.

Nako e tlile gore a re tseyeng diteemane re di ise kwa bathong.
E re re dira melao re bo re bua ka dilo tse Batswana ba di itseng, e seng ba di utlwalela gore di dira madi a lefatshe la Botswana.

Le fa o ka tsaya Tona mongwe a tshwana le borre Molale, yo o sa bolong go nna Permanent Secretary to the President, fa re ka mmotsa ka teemane, kana wa mo e kaela, o ka ya go lala a sa robala Mr Speaker, e le gone a bonang gore tota teemane go tewa bontle jo bo tshwanang le jo.

Re tshwanetse ra nna le tlhoafalo ya gore fa re dira melao, re e dira re e itirela.
Re bua re tlotlomatsa bo FATF, mme e le gore dilo tseo tse bo FATF ba buang ka tsone re a di itse, re a di itirela, re a di bona e bile re tlhomame mo go tsone.

Tona, atolosa lenaneo la gago la thuto go ya kwa Batswaneng ka diteemane gore e re fa… MR REATILE: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Honourable Motsamai, o tshwere kgang e sentle.


Ke gakologelwa gore e ne ya re ka 9th Parliament ga nna le batlotlegi bangwe ba nne ba bua kgang e o neng o e bua e mme nako eo ke fa go ne go le botoka ka re ne re na le dikompone tse di rekang diteemane di di betla mono.

Ke gakologelwa gore ke ne ke tsamaile le Honourable Somolekae le Arone ke ya go mo kopanya le bangwe ba ile go bona diteemane, ba batla go bona fela, e seng go reka, le go e tshwara ba feta ba e tshwara.
Jaanong gone moo gongwe fa Tona a ka ne a dira arrangements tse di ntseng jalo gore batho ba itse gore teemane go tewa eng.

E bile ga e felele gone foo, ke gore mo gongwe e ka re kamoso, Honourable Motsamai wa felala o tsene ka toronko, bogolo thata nna.

Ga ke itse gore fa gotwe drugs go tewa eng, gone mo gotweng go a sunediwa moo ga bo cocaine.
Ke gore le fa motho a ka di nneela a bo a re, ‘nnake o a lwala, ntseela dipilisi ke tse o fete o di mo neele,’ a tla a sa di fitlha ke di tsaya fela di ntse jalo, mapodise ba bo ba ntshwara, ba bo ba nkisa toronkong ka gore ga ke itse gore a ke tshwere molato.

Jaanong tsone dilo tse di ntseng jaana, gare go rutiwe batho, education ke yone e e botlhokwa.

Jaanong Tona Moagi fela ka gore ene o itse diteemane, ga a na sepe le gore Batswana ba di itse.

Ke gone fa mathata a leng teng.


22 Hansard No 204PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

47 OF 2021)Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 Tona Mmusi ka gore o itse diritibatsi tsa Mexico, ga a na sepe le gore Batswana ba di itse, ba tle ba itse gore ba lwantsha mmaba wa mofuta ofe.

O e tshwere sentle mokaulengwe.

Tswelela o e atolose fela jalo.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


MR MOTSAMAI: Ke tsamaela go wela Mr Speaker, ke ne ke mo riana ke bona a tshwere nap-nyana jaanong o thantse o tlaa ema a bua ka nna thata.

Mr Speaker, re lebile.

Rre Moagi, fa o utlwa ke bua ka diteemane jaana, madirelo a tsone a teng gore batho ba kgone go di bonela teng ba di itse.
Le potietse lefatshe le lotlhe mme go a diega go ntsha diteemane le reports kwa bo Kgalagadi le Ghanzi gore batho ba dikgaolo tseo le bone ba kgone gore dilo tse fa e le gore le a di supa le di ntsha gautshwane.

Ke bua jaana e le gore go ne go na le moepo o o mo Gope.

Ga re itse gore a moepo o a o santse o bereka, o feletse kae.

Ba Ghanzi ga ba na le fa e le information ya gore go diragala eng kwa Gope.

Go na le dikgang tse dingwe tsa meepo ya bo Masetlheng.
Ba kgaolo ya Ghanzi/Kgalagadi ga ba itse le gore a reports tse go neng go dirwa exploration ka tsone a di ne di supa gore a ditswammung tse di kwa tlase ka boleng le ka palo kana go viable gore go ka dirwa exploration Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Rakgare le Healy ga ba yo, Palamente e tsamaya sentle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go na le point of order.

…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai, are you done?
MR MOTSAMAI: Nnyaa Mr Speaker, ke utlwa motho a re point of order ke bo ke bona o ipaakanya ka re o a mo neela.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Ke nna Mr Speaker ka point of order.

Ke ne ke rialo ke re kana jaanong mokaulengwe on the floor o dule gotlhelele on the Bill.

Ga ke itse gore dikgang tse a di buang tse tsa meepo di amana jang le Bill yone e?

Ke re gongwe o adile go lekane.

A re somareleng nako.

He is out of order.


MR MOTSAMAI: Mr Speaker, ke tsaya gore o mphelela pelo fela a re ke adile go lekane.

Gone ke dumalana le ene gore o buile le nna a re ke wele ke setse ke wetse ke sa itse gore o batla go wela ga mofuta mang.

Mathata fela ke gore information le kgang e ke e ntshang e Mr Speaker, ke e e tlhobosang le go golafatsa Goromente thata.

This is why o bona Tona a counter gore Goromente wa gagwe a se ka a bona dikgobalo.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MODUKANELE): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Mma ke simolole fela ka go supa gore ke ema nokeng Tshutiso e e tlang ka Rre Moagi.
Ke supe jaana Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente gore Tshutiso e ke e ema nokeng mme se ke batlang go se supa lantlhantlha ke gore ke utlwile sentlentle fa Tona a bua ka kgang e ya gore gongwe o tla ka definition kana o a e atolasa ya ‘fit and proper.’ Ga ke na bothata le Bill e gotlhelele mme tsholofelo ya me e tonatona ke gore gongwe e tlaa re thusa go atolosa definition e. Ke kgang ya gore e ka thusa mo bathong ba ba tshwanang le these so called briefcase investors.
Rona kwa kgaolong e ke e emetseng Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, re bona letsatsi leno yo mongwe a goroga a tompisatompisa a ntsha mantswana a mabedi go tsweng fa o tsena ka lenga la seloko.

Re itumetse re re nnyaa Batswapong bagaetsho ba tlaa bona botshelo, bana ba tlaa bona ditiro, go bo go nna go nna jaana.

Ba setse gongwe fale le fale ba sa nne le tshepho ya gore Rre Moagi jaaka a ne a bua maloba a solofetsa gore moepo wa Lerala o tlaa bulwa, a mme go tlaa ya teng, ke sa reye gore ke a itse.
Ke re sone se go ya pele ke tsholofelo ya gore se ka thusa gore re itebaganye le batho ba ba tlhoafetseng.

They are real investors, not briefcase investors ba ba tlang fela motho a okomela a bo a tsaya diteemane tsa rona a bo a tsena mo lephaneng, re bo re sa tlhole re itse gore gatwe motho o ile kae.
Ka boripana fela Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke supe jalo gore ga ke na bothata, ke support Bill e. Go matshwanedi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente gore re bone gore re dira sengwe le sengwe se re ka se kgonang gore we comply with FATF regulations.
Ka gore kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi fa seemo se re tswang kwa go sone se re sa batleng go boela kwa sone, e bile re tlaa dira sengwe le sengwe gore re se ka ra boela kwa go sone, re ka iphitlhela re boetse teng, ga go na ope wa rona gone mo Ntlong e le Batswana ka bophara mo lefatsheng le… rotlhe re bone gore seemo se se re tsisetsa eng.

23 Hansard No 204PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
47 OF 2021)Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 Jaanong ke re ka mabaka a nna fa e ne e le ka bonna e ka bo e rile gongwe le yone beke e e fetileng Mr Speaker, re bo re feditse ka Bills tse tsotlhe ka gore ke tsaya gore Motlotlegi Mme Serame e rile fela fa a ala kgang, a e ela ka bophara, a bo a supa gore this consequential amendments tse dingwe tse, tota are …(inaudible)… gore re bone gore we fully comply with the requirements tsa FATF le tse dingwe.
Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re ke rotloetse le bakaulengwe gore a re di lebeng ka leitlho leo gore kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi, the bigger picture ke gore Motswana tsholofelo ke gore di ka tla tsa dira botshelo jwa Motswana gore bo tokafale.

Mr Speaker, ga ke batle go e golola tlou le maroo ka gore ke tsaya gore bakaulengwe ba buile, this amendment is straight forward.

Ka mantswe ao ke re Motlotlegi Rre Moagi Fox, mokgomong, re go ema nokeng rra ka mafoko ao.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

I thank you.


MR REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): Tanki Mr Speaker.

Ke lebogela nako e o e mphileng Mr Speaker.

Le nna ke amogela Tshutiso e ka gore e botlhokwa fela thata.

E re ntswa re respond kwa dikgannyeng tsa FATF, mme le rona fela re le Batswana e botlhokwa fela thata mo go rona paakanyo e ka gore re leka gore re sireletse se se dirileng Botswana.
Matlapana a a botlhokwa a, ke one a gompieno re reng lefatshe la Botswana le ntse jaana e le one a dirileng lefatshe la Botswana jaana.

Re tshwanetse gore re a sireletse ka dinako tsotlhe gore a tswelele a ntse a le botlhokwa, a bo a tlhatlose lefatshe le a le ise kwa a tshwanetseng gore a le ise teng.

Tshutiso e e botlhokwa fela thata.


Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, gongwe se ke tshwanetseng gore gape ke se akgele ke gore, tota melao e e re ntswa e le botlhokwa gore e dirwe jaana, re saletse kwa morago go leka gore Batswana le bone gore ba atumele, e tle e re fa dikgang tse di buega, e bo le bone ba na le seabe mo teng go bona gore mme kana go buiwa ka matlapana a le bone ba a tshwereng.
Jaanong re na le Batswana mme ga ba ba ntsi mo mohameng o wa tsa matlapana a, gore le bone ba ka bo ba na le seabe ba bona gore ba dira eng.

E kare bontsi jwa nako dikompone kana madirelo a a dirang le tsone diteemane, ke a batho ba ba tswang ka kwa ntle.

A Tona a dire gore fela jaaka fa re itse a le tlhaga go dira jalo, a dire gore Batswana ba ba ntsi ba tsene le mo mohameng o o tshwanang le one o o ntseng jaana.

Batswana ba bangwe ga ba sa tlhole ba itse le yone teemane gore ke golo mo go ntseng jang.
Lefatshe la rona la Botswana go a supafala gore re na le diteemane tse di ntsi tse e leng gore e ka nna ya fitlhela fa re batla re baakanya molao o, motho a e tsere a ne a sa itse gore ke eng, a bo a tloga a fitlhelwa ka yone, a bo a ya go tsena mo mathateng ka lebaka la selo se a neng a sa se itse.

A ba rutwe, ba itse gore fa re bua ka diteemane, re bua ka selo se se ntseng jang.
A ba tsene mo dikgwebong tsa diteemane gore e re fa re dira melao e tshwana le yone e gore di sirelediwe, re bo re itse gore re bua ka Batswana ba e leng gore ba a itse gore re bua ka eng.
Fela ka bokhutshwanyane Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ga ke batle go nna moleele, ke re molao o o botlhokwa fela thata, mme ga o botlhokwa mo go ba Hospitality and Tourism Association of Botswana (HATAB) o botlhokwa le mo go rona re le Batswana gore re itse gore ditswammung tsa rona re di sireletsa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Ga di itseelwe tseelwe fela jaaka mongwe a e sela fela, jaaka fa re bona go diragala kwa mafatsheng a mangwe mo e leng gore o fitlhele ba tabogile mo, mongwe le mongwe a ikepela ka fa a ikepelang ka teng.

Mafatshe a a ntseng jalo a tshabeletswe ke lehuma thata ka gore dilo tse ga di dirisiwe sentle, a tshabeletswe ke tshotlego e e ileng kwa godimo.
Jaanong rona re le Botswana, re tshwanetse gore matlapa a a tshwanang le a diteemane jaana, re a tseye ka tlhoafalo, re a sireletse, mongwe le mongwe a itse gore ke selo se se botlhokwa fela thata.

Le bone ba ba tswang ka kwa ntle ba itse gore rona fa re tsena fa, teemane re e tseetse kwa godimo ka ke yone e e re dirileng se re leng sone.

Ka mabaka a a kalo Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re molao o ke dumalana le one gore o ka feta ra tla ra tswelela.

Thank you.
Thank you.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister Moagi, can you reply to the debate please?

MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR MOAGI): Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, e bile ke leboga thata Batlotlegi Mapalamente jaaka ba ntse ba akgela ba gakolola.

Ke supe jalo gore ke ne ke reeditse ka tlhoafalo, ke tsere dikakgelo le dikgakololo tsa lona tsia, mme e bile ke tlaa di lebelela.
Ka bofefonyana, ke sa diege, Motlotlegi Rre Majaga o ne a supa gore molao o ka thusa, ee go siame, re a amogela.

Honourable Kapinga fela jaaka e ne ya re nako ele fa molao o o tla fa wa gakolola, ee rra, kgakololo eo ke a e tsaya, ke tlaa e kopanela le ba molao ba rona gore 24 Hansard No 204PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
47 OF 2021)Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 re bone gore re tlaa e dira jang ka gore tota sentlentle ke go babalela itsholelo ya rona mo ditswammung tse, re se ka gongwe ra dira mo go tweng unduly penalise ba bangwe ba e leng gore gongwe e ka tswa e le an offence e potlana e e ntseng jalo.

Fela ga re tle go digela letsogo kwa tlase ka gore fa o ka dira jalo, botsipa bo setse bo ile kwa godimo thata mo e leng gore bo ka felela bo re baya ka fa mosing.
Fela go itebaganya le tsa Anti- Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing jalojalo tse di neng di bolelwa, re tlaa itebaganya le tsone, ba molao ba tlaa re thusa that Clause 37 e o neng o bua ka yone.

Honourable Reatile o buile thata ka melao; bo licensing authority bao.

A lantlha re tlhaloganye pele gore melao ya rona e bereka fela ka molao wa Botswana ka kwano.
Le fa o ka tla o di rwele licences di tswa bo Sierra Leone, bo kae, rona ga re dirise tseo, ga re ka ke ra go rekisetsa diteemane tsa rona o tla ka licence e e tswang kwa ntle.

O reka diteemane tsa rona ka kwano ka licence e re e go neetseng kwano rona e e leng gore re a bo re e tlhomamesitse.

Ka jalo, ke sengwe sa ntlha se e leng gore re a bo re kata gore melao e e bo e le ya rona e e berekang ka kwano Botswana.
Re na le one maikaelelo a a tsweletseng a gore a diteemane tsa rona di bonale gore tse ke tsa Botswana.

Jaaka o ne o bua ka branding, re ka di brand ka tsela e e ntseng jang go supa gore teemane e ke ya Botswana.

Ke a itse gore go na le dithulaganyo tse di tsweletseng tsa bo provenance, bo block chain jalojalo, ke tse di lekang go lebelela gore o kgone to trace teemane ya rona o bone gore e tswa kkwa kae, e epilwe kae, ka dikae jalo, e a go felela e le kwa kae, mo e leng gore le fa o ka tswa.
O le kwa Kazakhstan o bona teemane e rekwa, o tlaabo o kgona go bona gore teemane e ke ya Botswana ka thulaganyo yotlhe e e leng gore e a bo e le marked teemane e e ntseng jalo.

So ke thulaganyo e e teng rra, mme e bile re tlaa tswelela re ntse re bona gore re e tokafatsa ka tsela e e ntseng jang, gongwe e ka re kwa pheletsong re feletse re tsentse sekanonyana sengwe se re tlaa bong re se supile ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Honourable Brooks, tota melao e rra... MR REATILE: Clarification Minister, maybe ga re a utlwana, through you Mr Speaker.
Ke a go utlwa Tona, mme kgang ya me e ne e le mo go reng motho yo gompieno re buang gore rona kwano ga re mofe license ka mabaka a gore ke yo o tswa toronkong, jaanong ke bo ke bua kgang ya gore a bo a bona licence ka kwa ntle kwa go ba e leng gore bone ga ba na moila le sereto sa gore o kile a tsena mo toronkong kwa Botswana, jaanong a tshwere licence e e leng gore ga se ya gago mme a bo a kgona gore jaanong a bo a trade ka diteemane tse e leng gore ke tsa rona ka gore ga re na letshwao la tsone.
A ga e ka ke ya re kamoso re bo re fitlhela e le gore jaanong o re bileditse megoga e duma motho wa go nna jaana?

Ke gone fa ke neng ke re gongwe o e tlhalose teng go ya tennyana Tona.

MR MOAGI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke a leboga Honourable.

MR REATILE: A trade ka tsone e le bogodu e seng gore o di rekile.

MR MOAGI: Ee rra, o a bona tsa bogodu ga ke itse gore go tlaabo bogodu bo simologile fa kae.
Se ke se go tlhomamisetsang ke gore, re itse ka diteemane tsa rona, le gore fa e ka re gompieno ke tswa fa ba ba di itseng ba di rutetswe, those trading ka tsone, le fa e ka ya go rekisiwa kwa Sierra Leone kana kwa kae, ba itse gore ba e farologanya jang le e e sa tsweng mo Botswana.

Ke sone se ke neng ke leka go se supa gore, tsa rona tse di a bong di tswa kwano, re na le gore re ka di latedisa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Gone ke tsaya kgakololo ya gago ya gore, kana fa go ka nna le dirukutlhi, o tlaabo a di tsere ka tsela nngwe e rona re tlaabong re sa e itse.

Tse di tswang kwano fela tsone, re tlaa kgona go di latedisa (track) gongwe le gongwe kwa di teng, le gore di dule jang, ke tsa leng, ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Honourable Brooks, o ne a supa gore jaaka fa Honourable Kapinga a bua gore, nnyaa, a re se ka ra otlhaya thata batho ba gotweng ba sentse.
Gone ke kgang e ke setseng ke e amogetse, those drafting ba tlaa re thusa gore re e baakanye sentle.

A re tlhaloganye se gape Honourable Brooks gore, diteemane tsa rona are traded internationally.

Ka jalo, re tshwanetse gore e re fa re dira ka tsone, re bo re itse gore di tsamaelana le melao yotlhe e e leng teng.

Otherwise, batho ba ka tloga ba gana diteemane tsa rona, re bo re felela re tshotse matlapa a ntse jaana, a sa rekwe, di sa amogelesege kwa melaong e e ntseng jalo.
Kgang e ya gore re bona gore alignment e serious le melao ya mafatshefatshe, go a bo go tewa gone gore e se ka ya tloga batho ba re nnyaa, lona kana diteemane tsa lona ke tse di fa tse di epiwang ka batho ba golafetse, ka batho ba ba rileng, therefore ga re di reke.

Ke sone se o neng o utlwa ke gatelela thata gore, re tlamiwa ke gore melao e e a bo e le ya mafatshefatshe.

Jaanong ka gore they are traded kwa mafatsheng, re tshwanelwa ke gore re e sekegele tsebe.
25 Hansard No 204PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

47 OF 2021)Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 Honourable Motsamai, o buile ka gore a Motswana o itse teemane?

Ke boammaaruri ga bo jelwe pheko, mme thuto ga se selo se se emang, e nna e tswelela fela gore batho ba rutwe ka sengwe le sengwe se se dirwang, a ke teemane, gouta, kgomo, legala, kana eng fela.
Ke supe jalo gore, le jaaka o batla gore museums di bo di atolositswe, ga se selo se se ka diregang ka letsatsi le lengwefela.

Go setse go simolotse museums tse dingwe, o motona o kwa Orapa, Jwaneng le ene o tlaa nna mo teng.

Gape mo godimo ga moo, go na le mine tours tse di saleng di simolola bogologolo fa mines tse di bulwa, tse setšhaba se letlelesegang gore se ka ya go tsena kwa moepong, se ikopetse, se bo se ya go bona, se bontshiwa teemane, se bontshiwa le ka fa e epiwang ka teng.
Le gone mo Gaborone kwa Diamond Trading Company Botswana (DTCB), ke dumela ba na le tours tse di ntseng jalo, tse di bontshang batho gore teemane ke selo se se ntseng jang.

O dira thulaganyo fela sentle, e bo ba ya go bona.

Ke dumela gore le nna ke tle ke le kopele thulaganyo ya gore le bontshiwe.

Ke sone se o neng o bona le mo tshimologong ya ngwaga ole, fa re ntse re bona matlapa a matona, re leka gore Batlotlegi Mapalamente ba a bontshiwe.
Ba kgone gore ba itse gore lefatshe la bone le ntsha diteemane tse di ntseng jang.

Ke yone thuto e e tlaa nnang e ntse e tswelela rra gore batho ba bone.

Gone ka o buile ka yone le fa e se mo Bill, mme rra itse gore kana dipotielo tse di dirwang tse, di dirwa ke private companies.

Fa e le gore ga ba a kgotsofalela gore se ba se boneng se ka tlisa maduo a a botoka mo go bone, mo gongwe ga ba ka ke ba simolola mine, because go simolola go tlaa ba a tlhoka ditlamelo tse dintsi.
Ke sone se ba batlang gore ba oketse pele potielo ya bone, e re fa e sena go ba kgotsofatsa, ke gone ba bo ba simolola.

Re ntse re a ba rotloetsa jalo re le Goromente gore ba bule meepo eo.

Fela jaaka o bona tsa kopore (copper) di bulwa kwa Ghanzi, batho bao ba tlaa itumela.

Gope yone rra o santse a tswetswe, mme o rekilwe.

Ba ba o rekileng gongwe ba tlaa simolola, le bone gakere ba tshwanetse gore ba batle madi a a tlaa simololang, ka gore motlhaba o ikoletse ka mine kwa Gope.
Rre Modukanele, yes, briefcase investors, go botlhokwa.

O a bona kgang e ya mines tse di rekwang tse, kana ba bangwe ba reka gore ba rekisetse ba bangwe, o a bona?

Mo motho a tlaabong a o tsaya fa gongwe a na le opportunity, mme a sa batle go bula mine, a batla gore a bo a o fetisetsa kwa go ba bangwe a o rekisa.

Gongwe go bo go tsaya lebaka golo moo.


Ke dilo tse re tlaa nnang re ntse re di leba, ka gore rona re go fa nako ya gore fa o sena go nna o reka, go bo go tla gore o tle go fetola maina, gore mine o o tsene mo maineng a gago.

Fa o tsene mo maineng a gago, go raya gore jaanong liabilities tsotlhe tse di tsamaelanang le mine oo, di lebagana le wena.

Ke teng fa go le gantsi motho a tlaabong ikgogela kwa morago.
Ke dilo tse re tlaa di lebelelang, le bo Lerala jalo jaaka o itse, bo BK11 and all these other ones, tse di tshwanetseng gore di bulwe ka gore tsone di rekilwe.

Rona we have recovered diteemane tsa rona tse di neng di le kwa Europe.

Batswana mo kgwebong ya diteemane, go botlhokwa thata rra.
Ba kompone ya Okavango Diamond Company (ODC) jaaka Honourable Majaga, le Rre Masire ba ne ba bua phakela, ba tsweletse ka lenaneo la bone le lesha la gore ba nne le leketlo kana sekidi se ba ka itebaganyang le gore Batswana ba ba batlang gore ba tsene mo kgwebong e, e bo ba ka kgona gore ba bo ba segetswe fa ba ka kgonang go reka teng, ba sa phadisanye le ba ba dikgwatlha dikima.
Ba bo ba kgona gore ba ka bona matlapanyana ao, le bone ba itshimololela kgwebo ya bone, e tle e re moragonyana ga dingwaga di ka nna tlhano go ya kwa go tse di lesome, le bone e bo re ikgantsha ka bone, e le borra dikgwebo ba batona ba ba ka emelang lefatshe le, e bile ba setse ba tswetse le kwa mafatsheng a mangwe.

Ba ODC le ba Diamond Hub, ba busy gore ba ko ba thuse Batswana ka ditsela tse di ntseng jalo.

Re ka rotloetsa Batswana gape gore, ba kgone gore ba ikopanye.
Go ikopanya mo ke raya gore ba tle ka ditlhaloganyo tse di farologaneng, ba thusane mananeo, ba bo ba batla madi mmogo, gore ba tle ba kgone ba reke diteemane tseo.

Jaaka ke bua, go na le gore ba tle ba kgone gore ba bonelwe tse ba ka di rekang botoka, gona le jaaka go rekwa at auctions.
Re kgala thata thulaganyo e e fa, e o fitlhang go ikepelwa, e etleng e bidiwe ‘makorokotsha,’ ga re batle jalo jaaka le itse gore ditswammung tsa lefatshe le di dira ditlhabololo tsa lefatshe lotlhe, ga di reye kgaolo nngwe e e rileng kana jang.

Se se teng fela ke go rotloetsa gore, a e re fa go kgaoganngwa borotho jo, bo lekane bana botlhe mo ntlong.
Ke sone se ke reng, re se ka ra gagapelela kgaolo gore e bo e nna yone e e tsayang meamuso yotlhe ya ditswammung tseo, ka ntlha ya gore di bonwe mo kgaolong eo.

Ke tsaya gore ke amile dintlha ka bontsi tsa batlotlegi, mme ke leboge thata jalo.

Ke supe gore… 26 Hansard No 204PRECIOUS AND SEMI-PRECIOUS (PROTECTION) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

47 OF 2021)Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.
MR MOAGI: …e ne e le paakanyo, ke tlaa kopa ba molao gore ba di mpaakanyetse, ke bo ke tla ka tsone at Committee Stage.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Clarification.

Tanki Mr Speaker.

Ke botse Tona fela gore Tona, o raya gore o tlhwaafetse, segakolodi sa gago se bua le wena ka tlhwaafalo, gore fa mafatshe a mangwe a tsamaela kwa nationalisation of their national assets like mines, wena wa re re tswe mo nationalisation of national assets, and privatise them?
Dikhumo tsa lefatshe re di fe segongwana sa batho to own them?

O tsweletse fela wa rialo, o a gatelela wa re go siame fela e bile FATF e tla ka megopolo e e siameng?

Wa rialo Tona fela o tlhwaafetse, segakolodi sa gago sa rialo?

Tanki.

MR MOAGI: Ke a leboga.

Selo se gotweng go tlhaloganya se thata tota.

Ke gore motho o kgona go latlhega fela, e bo jaanong o itshuputsa fela mo teng ga molora, a sa bue gore nnyaa, bogolo ntlhalosetse fa, ga ke a tlhaloganya sentle.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, wa re o rekisa mines le ba ba di rekileng.

O dirisitse mafoko a batho ba ba rekileng mines.

Jaanong ga ke tlhaloganye eng?

Fa o rekisa o rekisa jang?

MR MOAGI: Jaanong fa e le gore mines tse di bitswe ke private people who trade in Botswana, ba re ba letleletseng ka molao wa Botswana, gakere ke gone gore re tle mo Palamenteng fa e le gore o batla molao o fetolwa.

Mines tse di duela makgetho, royalties le sengwe le sengwe mo.

That is business.
That is business.

Jaanong ga ke itse gore a Batswana ba se ka ba reka mine mono.

BK 11 e rekilwe ke Motswana, e ntse e le mo Batswaneng gone gompieno jaana.

Jaanong ga o batle Batswana ba tsaya mines, go tlaa tlhangwa ditiro jang?

Nnyaa, o ne o sa tlhaloganye gore ke e baya jang Honourable Kekgonegile.

Thulaganyo e tlaa nna e tswelela fela gore re neele Batswana meamuso e ya bone, e nne bone ba e tlhabololang.

Motswana o na le tetla fela e e letlesegileng ya to own a mine.
Kgang ya bogologolo e re neng re bonela dilo mo bathong ga re a tshwanela go e letlelela gotlhelele.

Re tshwanetse gore re neele Batswana ditshono tsotlhe tse di teng, re ba neele licenses ba kgone to trade ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Mr Speaker, ke leboga thata e bile ke tsere dikgakololo tsa bakaulengwe Batlotlegi Mapalamente.

Mr Speaker, I therefore move that the Precious and Semi-Precious Stones (Protection) (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

47 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


Question put and agreed to.

Committee - Later Date.

REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

48 OF 2021) Second Reading MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): Thank you Mr Speaker and good afternoon, good afternoon Honourable House.

I have the honour to present the Real Estate Professionals (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

48 of 2021).
48 of 2021).

The main purpose of the Bill Mr Speaker, is to amend the Real Estate Professionals Act to define the terms “fit and proper” and provide for continuity in the assessment of fit and proper.

It is therefore my pleasure Mr Speaker, to present the Real Estate Professionals (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

48 of 2021) before this August House.


The definition and continuous assessment is to guard against admission to the real estate professional practice, those individuals with detrimental background as stipulated at Section 2 of the Bill.

Recommendation 28 of the FATF requires member states to take measures to prevent criminal or associates from holding or being a beneficial owner of significant shareholder or holding a management function in the designated non-financial business or profession.
During the assessment of the Real Estate Professionals Act by the ESAAMLG, the reviewers found that the term “fit and proper” is not defined in the Act, even though there is a provision that requires an applicant for admission as a registered professional to be a fit proper person.

The objective of the Bill is to amend the Real Estate Professionals Act to define the term “fit and proper” and provide continuity of assessment of this term.
Section 20 of the Act is supposed to be amended by inserting immediately after Sub-section 5, the following new sub-section; 27 Hansard No 204REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
48 OF 2021) Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 “for the purposes of sub-section 4 “fit and proper” means: (a) not to have been convicted of a criminal offence in Botswana; (b) not to have been convicted outside Botswana for a criminal offence which you committed in Botswana would have been a criminal offence; (c) not to be unrehabilitated insolvent; (d) not to be the subject of an investigation by supervisory authority; (e) not to have been a person holding a senior management position in a company which is disqualified from trading by a professional body or supervisory authority.” Thus Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Real Estate Professionals (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.
48 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR LETSHOLO (KANYE NORTH): Mma ke go leboge Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Ntlo eno.

Ke go lebogele gore le nna letsatsi leno ke kgone go latlhela tlhware legonyana kana ke tlise lone legonyana la modisa le gotweng ga le ke le galalwa.
Mr Speaker, ke tlhalose fela kwa tshimologong gore mme gone ke tlhaloganya Molao-kakanyetso o, o go utlwalang gore maikaelelo magolo a one ke gore go baakanngwe, go tlhalosiwe mo go tlhamaletseng lefoko le la Sekgoa le gotweng ‘fit and proper.’ Ke dumalana gore moo ke tshwanelo le tsamaiso, go tshwanetse gore go diragale jalo ka gore Makgoa bone ba a tle ba re clarity is key.

So go raya gore go botlhokwa Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, gore go nne tlhamalalo ya mafoko a a dirisiwang a.
Le fa ke dumalana jaana Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente e, ke tlhalose gore go na le disananyana tse pedi fela tse ke neng ke batla go kopa Tona gore a di lebele gongwe ka leitlho le le ntšhotšho ka gore ke tse ke belaelang gore di ka baya Motswana ka fa mosing.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke tlhalose gore santlha sesana se ke batlang go bua ka sone, ke se e bileng ba ga Ngwaketse kwa Kanye fa ke ntse ke tsamaya ke buisa diphuthego maloba jaana, ba ne ba tlhalosa gore tota ke kgang e e leng gore ga e ba tseye sentle, ga e ba jese diwelang.
Ke kgang yone ya gore ka gongwe go tle gotwe fela fa o na le fingerprints, ga o kgone go tsaya karolo epe fela mo itsholelong ya lefatshe la Botswana ka gore jaanong mongwe le mongwe gompieno fela fa o reng, gatwe nnyaa re batla go itse gore a o na le criminal record.

Fa e le teng go raya gore jaanong ga o amiwe ke ope, ga gona yo o go fang tiro e bile ga o letlelelwe go dira dikgwebo di le mmalwanyana.

Kgang e ba ga Ngwaketse ba ne ba re ke e beye fa pele ga Palamente e, ka nako e e tshwanetseng.
E tle e buisanwe gore e ka lebiwa jang gore e se ka ya tswelela ka go ba baya ka fa mosing.

Ke bua ka yone gompieno ka gore tshetla ya ntlha fela ya Molao-kakanyetso o, e bua gore motho o o kileng a bonwa molato kana a dira phoso, kana a nna le criminal record jaaka ke buile, o tlaabo a sa letlelelwe go rekisa matlo kana dikago jaaka go lebilwe mo molaong o. Fa e ntse jalo e mpha bothatanyana.
Dikgang tse di ntseng jaana di di ntsinyana, tse di batlang fingerprints mme kwa bofelong e bo e le gore di itsa Batswana go tsaya karolo mo itsholelong.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke batla go go fa sekai fela, Honourable Kapinga o kile a bua ka yone kgantele le ene.

Fa o ka bona motho a na le dingwaga di le 16 bogologolo, gompieno o dingwaga di le 40, nako ele a le 16 kana 14 a bo a raelesega a utswa sweets at the shop, go bo go raya gore o a tshwarwa o tsewa monwana.
Go tsweng foo Puso e mo tsenya sekole kwa primary, e mo isa secondary, e mo isa kae, university o ya to qualify gore a bereke a rekisa dithoto.

Go bo gotwe o kile wa senya nako ele 20 years ago, go raya gore ga o ka ke wa letlelelwa.

Ke bona o kare kgang e ga e a siama.

Go batla re e lebelele sentle.

Ga e na nako, it is into perpetuity.

Fa o kile wa senya nako nngwe wa nna le fingerprints jalo, go raya gore go fedile ka wena, ga go na nako e o tlaa letlelelwang, ke raya ka fa molao o o ntseng ka teng.
Re e lebe sentle gore a mme go kaone gore re dire motho a tswelele ka go sekela molato o a o dueletseng into perpetuity.

Fa e le gore motho yo o ne a tshwerwe a tsena kgolegelo, a duelela molato o o a fetsa, go tsweng foo a bo a nna dingwaga tse 10 a tlogetse a sa tlhola a dira molato, a bo a tswelela ka go sekela molato o, a nna a otlhaiwa fela ka gore o kile a o dira bogologolo.

Nnyaa Tona, e ke tsaya gore re ka e lebelela, ra bona gore re ka baakanya dinako tsa teng gore di nna jang.
Motho a se ka a otlhaiwa into perpetuity.

Se gape o kare re raya gore tsamaiso e re nang le yone ya dikgolegelo, correctional facilities tsa rona, re a di belaela.

Re tsaya batho re ba isa teng gore ba ye go duelela molato, mme ka fa gape ba baakanngwe ba thusiwe, ba sidilwe gore e re kamoso e nne batho ba ba botoka, o kare ba boa fela e se batho ba ba siameng.

28 Hansard No 204REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
48 OF 2021) Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 Ga re sa tlhola re batla go ba neela ditshono tsa go tsaya karolo mo itsholelong ya lefatshe la bone.

Fa ke le kwa diphuthegong tsa maloba ke bua ka tsone, tse ke neng ke di buisa Motlotlegi Tona, go ne go tlile ba Lephata la Prisons.

Ba tlile go kopa Bangwaketse gore ba na le bothata jwa gore batho fa ba tswa kgolegelong ga ba sa tlhole ba amogelwa sentle mo setšhabeng.
Batho ba a ba shema, ga ba batle go ba hira le go ba letlelela gore ba tseye karolo mo itsholelong.

Jaanong ba tlile go kopa kwa Kgotleng gore a re ba tseyeng ka tsela e e siameng.

We have to create the conducive environment gore batho ba ba kgone go tsena mo setšhabeng.

Ba bangwe ba tla ba ithutile dithuto tse di rileng, jaanong ba kgone go bereka mo lefatsheng la rona.

Ke tsaya gore e fa re e lebile ka fa e ntseng ka teng Clause ya ntlha ya (a) o kare e gotlhagotlhana le maikemisetso a Tona.
Re lebelele gore, fa e le gore motho o ne a dirile molato dingwaga tse 10 tse di fetileng, eo o ka tlogelwa.

Fa e le gore ke tse five g re tlhalosetswe gore o ka tlogelwa (exempt) jang.

Ke eng re tshwanetse go dumela gore o fetogile, ke motho yo o mosha, ke gore dilo tsa go nna jalo.

Re simolole go di akanya mme ke na le megopolo e re ka e buisanang gore go ka nna jang.

Fa e le gore go a amogelesega e ka re at Committee Stage re bo re buisana gore re di amogele.
Se se a ntshwenya Tona ka gore fa re ka dira jaana ra ba kganela go rekisa matlo, ba se ka ba kgona go dira jalo, kgantele botshelo bo a pala, bo nna thata ba ya go dira melato e mengwe, ba boela gape kwa kgolegelong.

A hungry man is a very angry man.

Ke ne ke re gongwe re ba thuse.

Tona, ke belaela gore le fa ke se motho wa melao, ka fa molaong go na le mo gotweng double jeopardy.

Golo mo o kare ka tsela nngwe ke double jeopardy.


Batho ba kwa America ba tlhalosa double jeopardy ba re, it is something that prohibits anyone from being prosecuted twice for substantially the same crime.

O ile kgolegelong, o duetse molato wa gago mme o tswelela botshelo jwa gago jotlhe o ntse o duelela molato o o gape.

Jaanong ke moka o kare double jeopardy mme ga ke dumele gore e siame.

MR REATILE: Clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Motlotlegi, kgang e o e tshwere sentle.


Se se makatsang ke gore mo teng ga Palamente ya lefatshe la Botswana, motho yo o tswang kgolegelong re a itse gore o feta ka diatla tse di rapeletsweng, rehabilitated gore a busetswe into the mainstreams of society, e bo e felela e nna Mopalamente.

A bo a tla fa a nna Tona but go rekisa matlo fela motlotlegi, le go tsaya licence ya diteemane, e bo e nna moila o o kanakana.

Tota o e tshwere sentle.


Golo mo boTona ba tshwanetse ba ye go nna fa fatshe to discuss kgang e mo go tseneletseng.

Ga e ka ke ya re batho ba tswa kgolegelong ba nna mapolotiki, but ba e neng e le their colleagues teng, ba bo ba re ba ba itsa go rekisa matlo.

Golo mo go ngomola pelo gotlhelele.

Thank you sir.

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Procedure.

Sorry Mr Speaker, just something that I am not used to but it seems it has disappeared.

No, it is appearing again on the screen Mr Speaker.
I can see two speakers in the House, one is seated… MR SPEAKER: No, do not worry, there is a reason for that, ke makatadimetšhe ke tlaa go bolelela kgantelenyana.

It is not sharing right now, you will know in a moment why that position.

MR LETSHOLO: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke a go utlwa Rre Reatile, e tlaare mo motsotsonyaneng ke akgele mo go e o ntseng o e bua eo mo go tseneletseng.
Tona, ke dumela gore fa re lebelela dikgang tsa bosinyi tse di fetileng, re se ka ra leba bosinyi fela in total.

Ke gore criminality in general jaaka go ntse mo Clause e re buang ka yone e. Go nne specific gore motho yo a bo a kile a senya mo dikgannyeng tsa go rekisa matlo kana dithoto jalo, jaaka molao o ntse.

Go le specific to industry e o tlileng go dira mo go yone.

Jaaka mokaulengwe Rre Reatile a ne a bua gore mme fa go tla kwa Mapalamenteng go a diragala.

Se re se buang ga se tlholontšha.


Motswana o a tle a re ke tlholokgologolo.

Fa o tla kwa go rona Mapalamente, ga re itebelele gore a re kile ra dira molato, are we criminals or not.

Molaomotheo ga o na dikgang tseo.

Ke batla go go nankolela Mr Speaker fa o ka ntetlelela, from the Constitution ya Botswana.

Section 62 Sub Section 2 ya Molaomotheo wa lefatshe la rona ke yone fela e e nang le sengwe se e se buang ka go dira molato ga motho yo o batlang go nna Mopalamente.
Fa ke e bala ya riana, “Parliament may provide that a person shall not be qualified from election to the National Assembly for such a period not exceeding five years, as may be prescribed if he or she is convicted of any such offence connected with elections to the Assembly as may be prescribed”.

Se se raya gore fa o batla go nna Mopalamente, fa go ya kwa bosinying kana crime, se se ka go itsang fela ke fa o kile wa dira molato o o amanang le dikgang tsa go tlhophiwa gore motho a tle Palamenteng.
Sengwe le sengwe, a o kile wa bolaya motho, wa reng, ga di amane le kgang e. Re le Palamente, re tlisitse molao o e leng gore ra re ga go 29 Hansard No 204REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

48 OF 2021) Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 kgathalesege gore o dirile eng, fa o kile wa dira molato, ga o ka ke wa ya go rekisa matlo.

Ke sone se Tona ke reng re kopa gore re e lebelele sentle.

E bile ke batla go fa sekai gore selo se se kile sa diragala.
Ke kopa go nopola Mr Speaker again, fa o ka ntetlelela, mo pampiring ya dikgang ya Mmegi ya September 3, 2010, e bua ka mongwe yo e neng e le Mopalamente ka nako ya teng Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Please do.

MR LETSHOLO: Ya re, “former Assistant Minister Michael Tshipinare was at some point convicted for his involvement in an unsavory deal with a company known as Spectra.
After serving part of his term, he later made a comeback and became a full Minister.” So o kgona go bona Mr Speaker, gore fa go tla kwa rona ba re dirang molao, nnyaa, go siame fela re ka dira molato... (interruption)...toronkong ra boa, mme e bile go sa nne le dingalo.
Jaanong ke sone se ke kopang gore Tona a ye go leba sentle gore nnyaa, le Batswana fela, a re sa ba kgame ka mometso gore ba se ka ba kgona go ya go rekisa ditsha fela ka gore motho o kile a dira molato, e bile a o seketse... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa tlhaloso foo honourable.

MR LETSHOLO: Ee rra, ke tlaa boela fa go wena Tona.
Jaanong ke sone se ke neng ke kopa Minister, gore Molao-kakanyetso o o o beileng fa pele ga rona o, o letlelele, o fe sebaka sa gore ba ba kileng ba dira phoso, mme ba le rehabilitated, ba sugilwe either ke tsa rona tsa prisons kana jangjang fela, ba nne le tshono ya gore ba boe.

Ke batla go fa sekai sa bobedi Tona gore ke tlhalose se ke lekang go se bua, o tlaa bona gore se ke se kopang se, se diragala le mo professions tse dingwe.
Ke batla go fa sekai ka ba molao; lawyers, ka gore le bone e bile kana ba amiwa ke molao one o, ka gore le bone ba a amega mo dikgannyeng tsa go rekisa ditsha, matlo kana dithoto fela jalo mo molaong.

Jaanong ke batla go fa sekai ka mongwe and again, ke batla go nopola mo pampiring ya dikgang and ke nopola tse ka gore e ne e le dikgetsi tse di neng di le kwa kgotlatshekelong, di mo public domain Mr Speaker, ga se mo go ka tweng ga ke buise mongwe sentle.
Ke kopa go nopola an example, e amang mongwe wa mmueledi yo o neng a bidiwa gotwe Tiro Lyndon Mothusi.

MR SPEAKER: Please do.

MR LETSHOLO: Mr Speaker, pampiri ya The Voice ya November 11, 2015, e ne e kwadile e riana, “Justice Michael Mothobi readmitted disbarred lawyer Tiro Lyndon Mothusi to practice as an attorney, notary and conveyancer.
Mothusi was suspended from practice in 2008 for legal misdeeds, and after serving time in jail for a graft conviction.” So o kgona go bona gore le lawyers tota fa ba dirile molato e bile ba bonwe molato ke kgotlatshekelo, ba ile kwa toronkong, fa a tswa koo, go na le lenaneo le tsamaiso e e dirang gore a kgone go boa gape.

Ga ba kganelwe completely gore ba se ka ba tlhola jaanong ba ka tsaya karolo mo itsholelong ya lefatshe la rona.
Ke sone se ke buang ke re le mo fa e le gore motho o kile a utswa sweets bogologolo, nnyaa, a re sa mmolaeleng ruri gore jaanong a se ka a tlhola a atamela.

Tona, ke ne ke re e bile e yone e e buang ka lawyers, gongwe o e lebelele ka gore lawyers di amiwa ke molao one o re o lebileng o, mme kana bona gore motho yo ke neng ke bua ka ene yo, Lyndon Mothusi, he was admitted back as a conveyancer ke gore o kgona to deal le dilo tsa lefatshe le go rekisa dithoto jalo.
Kana go raya gore molao o fa o feta, ka fa molao o o dumelang lawyers, o tlaabo o mo letlelela gore a ka dira e le mmueledi, mme o one o sa mo letlelele ka gore o kile a nna le molato, o sa mo letlelele gore a dire le dilo tsa go rekisa matlo.

Jaanong melao e mebedi e o kare e a gotlhagotlhana, go raya gore re e lebelele Tona, re bone gore how do we harmonise it.
Fa o leba mafatshe a mangwe, o tlaa lemoga gore lefatshe le tshwana le United Kingdom (UK), lone specifically le ntshitse lawyers gore ba obamelwe ke molao wa real estate gore ba nne go sele fela, ba se ka ba amiwa ke molao, gongwe le rona go ka tswa gore re e lebelele jalo, gore re ba ntshe fa gore melao e se ka ya gotlhagotlhana.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke rialo ke re ba ba itikileng, ba dirile diphoso bogologolo, ba sugilwe, jaanong re ba letlelele gore ba kgone gore ba dire.
E ke batlang go bua ka yone ya bofelo, ke tlaabo ke sutela Tona, o ne a kopile clarification, ke Clause ‘e’ Mr Speaker, in this Bill e e buang e re, and I am quoting Mr Speaker, from the Bill; “not to have been a person holding a senior management position in a company which is disqualified from trading by a professional body or supervisory authority.” Jaanong Mr Speaker, senior management, ke lekile go ya kwa the actual Act e e baakanngwang, ke batla go bona gore a go na le definition ya senior management, ga ke a e bona.
Ke batla go tlhalosa gore mo dikomponeng kana in businesses or madirelo, senior management e a farologana.

Ke gore fa o fitlhela kompone e tona e e tshwanang le e go ntseng 30 Hansard No 204REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
48 OF 2021) Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 go buiwa ka yone ya Debswana, e e nang le batho ba le more than a thousand, senior management o kgona go fitlhela batho ba le bo 100, 120 kana eng, mme fa o tsaya business e nnyennyanenyana Mr Speaker, ya batho ba le 15, senior management fa gongwe ke batho ba bararo e bile yo mongwe mo teng e le mong wa kgwebo.

Jaanong go batla re tlhalosa gore senior management o, re raya jang.
Imagine Mr Speaker, gore kgwebo kana company eo, e dira phoso e bo e ntshiwa jaanong gore e se ka ya tlhola e dira kgwebo ya yone.

Wena o bereka mo Human Resources (HR), mme phoso ya teng e dirilwe kwa Finance kana Technical, ga o itse le gore gatwe phoso ya teng e tswa kae go rileng, personally, ga o ise o lebisiwe molato wa gore o dirile sengwe se se phoso, mme jaanong o a kganelwa gore o ka tsweledisa botshelo jwa gago wa itshedisa.

Jaanong ke ne ke re gongwe le yone e re e lebelele gape Tona.
Gongwe re lebelele senior executives e bile at Director level ba ba responsible and accountable to drive the organisation.

They make the decisions that drive direction le ditshwetso tsa kompone eo.

Re se ka ra re senior management because it can just be a manager yo e leng gore ga a itse le fa e le sepe.
Secondly, re lebe gore a mme go tlaabo go le fair gore e re fela ka gore e ne e le a Director in that company, mme a ne a sa itse sepe ka se se diragalang, go ise go nne a process e e dirang gore personally, a tlhodumelwe gore a o na le personal liability kana capability a bo fela re mo tsenya mo teng gore a go tlaabo go le kaone.
Ke dumela gore mongwe le mongwe o tshwanetse gore le fa e le gore kompone yone e dirile phoso, mme re bo re letlelela gore the professional bodies kana tseo tsa teng, mme di bo gape di tsweletse tsa ya go tlhodumela le executives tseo ka bongwe ka bongwe, unless e le gore jaanong re ya go tlhalosa gore ke melato efe e e dirang jalo.
Ke a itse Tona, ke a tlhaloganya gore go na le melato mengwe e e leng gore yone ee, because of the severity ya yone, go ka lebelelwa kompone fela gotwe the executives botlhe are held accountable, mme there must be personal capability e e lebelelwang.

Pele ga ke wetsa Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo, Tona o ne a kopile clarification, mma ke mo fe nako.

MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR MOLAO): Point of clarification.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Tota honourable o setse a tsamaetse kwa pele thata.
E ke neng tota ke batla clarification mo go yone, e ne e le the quote e a neng a e dira with regards to the former Member of Parliament (MP) and Minister Rre Tshipinare, ka kgang e a neng a e bala.

Gore a mme o a lemoga gore morago ga tsheko, ene yo o buiwang yo, o ne a ya kgotlatshekelong to make an appeal from which he was acquitted, ke gone jaanong a bo a ka boela kwa Palamenteng, a le phepa, a sa tlhole a na le molato.
A tota mme sekai se a se dirisitseng, se relevant, a se santse se tsamaelana le kgang e a e buang gore once you have been acquitted, molato o sala o ntse o go apere kgotsa o nna phepa o simolola sesha?

Ke yone tota e ke neng ke batla gore gongwe a e tlhatswe re mo e lemotshe go santse go le early jaaka a ne a fa sekai.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR LETSHOLO: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke kopa gore Tona o se ka wa nna caught up with side issues.
My issue ke e, wena o le modira molao o le Tona, a o bona go siame gore your profession as a politician, e bo e le gore ga o ka ke wa kganelwa ka gore o kile wa dira molato, mme o bo o tla go dira molao o o reng mongwe a se ka a tsweledisa profession ya gagwe ka gore o kile a dira molato, that is my point.

So if o na le an issue le that one, that is when ke neng ke ka kopa gore gongwe re e debate.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.


MR LETSHOLO: In conclusion Mr Speaker, ke ne ke kopa go feleletsa fela ka go tlhalosa gore tota ke ne ke kopa Tona gore a dire eng, di pedi dilo tse ke di kopang.

A lebelele kgang ya gore go se ka gatwe mongwe le mongwe o na le criminal record fela, o idiwa gore he can practice in this profession.

Gongwe go lebiwe specific crimes tse motho a neng a di dirile, about dishonesty, dilo tsa go nna jalo.
Jaaka ke ne ke buile ke re ke teng, le Tona ke ne ke kile kgantelenyana ka mmolelela gore ke eletsa go bua jaana, ke ka kopa go bua le ene on the side, I am still open to that gore re bue.

Ya bobedi ke gore re lebelele kgang ya senior management, gore re se ka ra tloga ra senyetsa Batswana botshelo fela ka gore o ne a bereka mo komponeng, mme somebody else kae a bo a tsaya tshwetso e e leng gore jaanong go mo senyeditse botshelo jwa gagwe for the rest of his life.
A bo e le gore o fedile, bana ba gagwe ga go na gore ba ka tlhola ba bona phaletshe kae.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

DR MATSHEKA (LOBATSE): Good afternoon Mr Speaker.

Thank you very much for giving me the chance ya gore ke akgele.

Mr Speaker, are we discussing the Companies or… MR SPEAKER: Real Estate.

DR MATSHEKA: Nnyaa Mr Speaker, ga ke a ikwala mo go eo.

I am waiting for the Companies.

Thank you very much.

31 Hansard No 204REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
48 OF 2021) Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 MR SPEAKER: Okay.

e tsamaelana le se se batliwang ke bone ba FATF.

MR BALOPI (GABORONE NORTH): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Rraetsho tla ke go dumedise, e bile ke dumedise le Mapalamente mo maitseboeng ano.

Le nna ke akgele ka bokhutshwane ka gore mokaulengwe Honourable Letsholo o tsere mabaka a le mantsi a ke neng ke ka a ama.
Mo tsetlaneng e re buang ka yone ya gompieno ya Molao-kakanyetso ya Real Estate Professionals Amendment Bill 2021, ke lemoga fa e le gore go na le maparego a a builweng.
Ke a itse gore konokono ya kgang le kakaretso ya yone ke gore, re batla go bua re tsibogela dintlha tse re di beilweng pele ke ba FATF le ba ESAAMLG ka ntata ya gore go ka tswa go na le botlhabetsi jwa tsamaiso ya madi kana go dira mo go sa lolamang mo go ka felelang go re tsentse botlhabetsi fa re bua ka ditsamaiso tsa letseno, le le ka tswang le ka dirisiwa ka tsela e e botlhaswa kana le oka dinokwane.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, re tshwanetse re ipotse nngwe ya ditsetlana tse re di beilweng pele ke tebelopele ya rona ya lefatshe, re e amanya le gore re a itse gore re tshwanetse go nna karolo ya boditšhabatšhaba mo go tsamaiseng dikgang.
Tona e re fa a tsiboga a leke gore gongwe a tlhalose ka bophara, kana ka go tlhoka kitso e e tseneletseng mo go reng FATF e ka tsenelela go le kana kang mo dikgannyeng tsa lefatshe, ntswa gape ba tshwanetse go lebelela seemo sa kgolo ya itsholelo ya lefatshe leo.

Le go tsaya karolo mo go ba e leng gore ke ba dikgwebo tse di ikemetseng ka nosi, gone go godisa itsholelo ya rona e re eletsang gore e tswe mo goreng e bo e le itsholelo e e fa gare go ya kwa godingwana.
Re e ise kwa itsholelong e e tshwanetseng gore e bo e le kwa godingwana.

Kana gore seo se diragale ke gore go nne le tirisanyo mmogo e e bophara, e e tseneletseng.
Ka jalo mangwe a maparage a a ntseng a sutswa ke Honourable Letsholo a bua gore, gongwe re tshwanetse go sekaseka gore fa motho a dirile botlhokotsebe kana a dirile sengwe se e leng gore jaaka molao o o bua o gore fa e le gore o kile wa nna le kgang tsa tshenyo, go tlaa nna thata gore o ka felela e le gore o mo lenaneong la go ka tsenelela mo go ya gore o ka ikamanya le thekiso ya matlo, ditsha jalo, jalo, ya Real Estate, jaaka e tlhalosiwa.
Jaanong gone foo re le lefatshe le le golang la palopotlana e e kana, a ga go na gore gongwe re ka itirela mo go maleba, mme go ntse go tsamaelana le gore re ka boloka gore go se ka ga nna le go tsenelela mo teng ga botlhabetsi jo re ntseng re bua ka jone, jo re bo beilweng pele gore kana melao e Mongwe kgantele o buile gore re le lefatshe, I take that is you Honourable Tshabang wa Nkange, a re, kana fa gongwe re tshaba go bua gore rona mme re batla gore re godise itsholelo ya rona, re mo motlhaleng wa go leka gore re akaretse botlhe, re mo motlhaleng wa go bona gore re tswa fa seemong se re neng re bua ka sone sa itsholelo.
A mme fa re dira metlhale e ya melao, a ga se gore re e tle re nna le mo e leng gore ka sejatlhapi gongwe we localise, mme re ntse re itse gape gore go tlaabo go na le tse di tlaa re thusang, gore bone ba FATF le ESAAMLG ba tlhaloganye gore ke eng re batla go nna le seelo gongwe sa dingwaga, gore fa o nnile le tshenyetso-setšhaba kana bosinyi jo bo rileng, o beelwe fa thoko sebakanyana se se rileng.
E re fa o tla go boa go bo go le bosupi jaaka fa go buiwa gone fa gore, fa e le gore o kile wa nna motho yo o kileng wa tšhona thata gore o palelwe ke go fitlhelela tse o di kolotang, mme o lebega o setse o kile wa tsosoloswa gape gore o nne motho yo o ka nnang mo seemong sa go ka gweba gape, gongwe o ka kgona gore o tsene gone foo.

Fela jalo, jaaka yo o nang le bosinyi jo a bo dirileng, gongwe go lebelelwe ka bophara gore a o ka seke a nne motsayakarolo.
Ke buisiwa se Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke gore, kana fa re bua ka inclusivity re raya le batho ba ba mono mme ba kile ba relela mo botshelong.

Ka gore Motswana a re, “o mpotse tsa kwa ke tswang, e seng tsa kwa ke yang.” Fa gongwe go kgona gore go nne le mathata a a tseneletseng, a o iphitlhelang e le gore o fa gare ga naka tsa nare, o bo o felela o dirile phoso.
Mme o bo o nna le boikobo ka ditiro tse dingwe tse o tlaabong o di dira le ka fa o tlaabong o sogilwe ka teng, gore gongwe o ka nna le bosekaseko, ka gore Motswana a re, “motho ga a nke a latlhwa.” A molao o….. ba FATF, ke a itse gore ga ba itse Setswana sa motho ga a nke a latlhwa, mme fela rona re a se itse, ka gore re a bo re itse gore go na le tse o tlaabong o di lebile e le gore ke tse di molemo.
Re a tle re bone batho ba bangwe ba sokologa, e bile ba sala tumelo e ba e setseng morago thata, e bile e ba boloka gore ba nne baagi ba setšhaba le tse di re tsamaisang tse di molemo.

E le gore ba reretswe ke motho a sokologile a le kwa kgolegelong.

Gongwe e bile e ne e le motho yo a neng a tsere botshelo jwa motho yo mongwe ka tsela e e leng gore ga e maleba.

E re a tswa koo a bo a kgona gore a bo a rera se se ka bolokang batho, go ba fetola.
32 Hansard No 204REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

48 OF 2021) Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 Jaanong ke re ntswa ke dumalana le molao o, supporting it Tona Mzwinila ka bophara, ka e batla gore e re beye mo seemong sa go tsamaisa itsholelo e e dumalanang le ditumalano tsa mafatshefatshe, mme gape e boloka gore re se ka ra nna boremelelo jwa tshenyo re le lefatshe la Botswana.
Gongwe re e tle re leba gape gore, a mme gone ga go na se re ka se dirang se se ka kgonang gore bone batho ba ba ka tswang ba nnile le bosinyi mo nakong e e rileng ba kgone gore ba boele mo tšhabeng e le batho ba ba ikagileng sesha.

Kante re rotloetse gore re ya go go tsenya mo lenaneong le le rileng, go bona gore a o tlaabo o ka ikaga o setse tsamaiso eo morago mo lenaneong leo.
Re bo re boa gape re go sekaseka gore, a mme re ka go letlelela gore o felele o tsena mo itsholelong ka bophara, o nna motsayakarolo wa gore o ka rekisa ditsha kana o ka dira kgwebo ya go tsamaelana le dikgang tse.
Ke re Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke dumalana le tsetlana tse, mme fela e tlaa re gongwe re tsena gone mo Committee Stage re bo re ntse re buisanya le Tona gore, gore Batswana ba itse gore tota fa gongwe… go na le ba ba dirang ka bomo ee mo diemong tse di rileng, mme go na le ba gongwe ba a bong ba reletse ka ntata e e rileng.
Go nne le tsela jaaka ke sa tswa go bua e e maleba, e e batlang go akaretsa, go aga le go boloka, gore e tle e re kwa bofelelong re kgone go nna le tšhaba e e itseng gore re tšhaba ya boitshwarelo, neelano, jaaka re le tšhaba ya lefatshe la Botswana.
Se setonatona fela ke gore, FATF dingwao le ditsamaiso kana values and principles tse re nang le tsone re le mafatshefatshe, segolobogolo jang mafatshe a a golang mo itshololeng, e tshwanetse gore gongwe go nne le kakanyetso ya gore ba ka thusiwa jang gore ba lebisiwe ditsetlana dingwe tse di akaretsang ba e leng gore ke baagi ba bone.

Tota fela jaaka fa ke buile fa ke simolola Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, Rraetsho Honourable Letsholo o e buile ka bophara, a bo a fa dikai tse di maleba.
Ke re ke e ema nokeng, mme fela re nne re lebaleba gore re tlaa dira jang go ya kwa pele.

Ka mafoko a a kalo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Balopi.

MR BALOPI: Ke tsaya fela gore ke e ema nokeng, mme fela re nne re lebaleba gore re tlaa dira jang go ya kwa pele.

Ka mafoko a a kalo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke a leboga.

MR KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): Tanki Mr Speaker.

Mma re dumedise batlotlegi le setšhaba ka kakaretso.
Re a o bona molao wa Real Estate.

Re tseela gore Ditshutiso tse di lebaganeng le one ka bophara ka o na le dikgang tse dintsi, di tlaa tla, mme mma re itebaganye le tse di fa pele ga rona.

Kana maloba fa re bua ka molao o mongwe wa dikgang tse tsa Financial Action Task Force (FATF), ke ne ka bua jalo gore kana kwa magolegwa a nnang teng, ke kwa ba etseng teng go ya go baakanngwa ditlhaloganyo, go leka gore ba tswe kwa ba tle ba ikagile sešha bontsi jwa bone.
Mme fa ba ikagile sešha, re na le maikarabelo re le setšhaba, Goromente le batho ka kakaretso gore re ba amogele mo setšhabeng, integration into the society.

Ke selo se se botlhokwa thata.

Fa Goromente a tla ka melao e e ntseng jaana gape a nna le melao e e reng amogelang batho mo setšhabeng, ke melao e e thulanang.

Fa e thulana, o mongwe o tlaa reediwa go gaisa o mongwe.
Fa o mongwe o reediwa go bo go reediwa one o, go ya go nna le bothata jwa gore jaanong setšhaba ka kakaretso sone ga sena go amogela batho ka gore Government is being exemplary.

Jaanong go botlhokwa thata gore re lebelele melao e. Kgang e re e lebelele thata ka bophara, mme e bile fa re e lebeletse ka bophara, re se ka ra e lebelela mo molaong one o fela ka gore melao e yotlhe ka bo 16 jwa yone e tletse kgang e ya gore motho fa a tswa kwa kgolegelong ga se motho.

Kana melao e yotlhe ka bo 16 ya rialo.


Mo go rayang gore fa Tshutiso e e tla re e amogela ka ke dumela gore re tlaa e amogela, e lebagane le melao e yotlhe ka bo 16, e se ka ya lebagana le one o fela.

Kana bomosola jwa gore re amogele batho gore ke batho ba tswa kgolegelong, it has its trickle-down effect on a number of sectors, policies and a way of life from different angles.
Batho ba ba tswang kwa kgolegelong re kgona go ba tsenya mo boeteledipeleng le go ba letlelela gore ba nne le karolo mo go godiseng itsholelo ya rona.

Gone moo fela ka bogone, go tlaa re tlama gore policies le mananeo a rona a kwa dikgolegelong e nne mananeo a a nitameng ka gore batho fa ba tswa kwa e a bo e le gore ke mokang e le graduates of different sectors.
Therefore, fa e le graduates of different sectors, ba ya go tla ba na le phisego, lenyora, tlala le mašhetla a go batla go dira go supa gore golo fa o itse gore ke tswa go senya nako mme ga ke a e senya mo go kalo ka ke tla ke rutegile ke na le phisego ya botshelo.

Mo go rayang gore the rehabilitation process and its implementation will be sound and therefore, e tlaa re thusa fela thata.

The recurrence of criminal activities by the very same people ba ba tswang koo, e tlaa fokotsega, e tlaa ya kwa tlase.
33 Hansard No 204REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

48 OF 2021) Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 MR MATHOOTHE: Elucidation through you Mr Speaker.

Mokaulengwe, o e tshwere sentle.

Ke ne ke re mo kgannyeng e o e tshwereng fa, gongwe e bile gape re fe le sekai sa gore bangwe fa ba tswa kwa ditoronkong e nna baruti ba ba tona, go supa gore jaanong ba ithutile go le go ntsi kwa toronkong, mme ba bo ba ka kgona gore ba tle ba tsamaise dikereke tse di tona, batho ba dumele mo go bone.
Golo moo ke sesupo fela sa gore motho fa a tswa kwa toronkong o kgona gore a bo a ikaga a bo a itse gore jaanong ke berekela setšhaba.

Ke raya gore dikgang tseo re di bona gape le kwa dikerekeng.

Tanki rra.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki Honourable Mathoothe.

Go ntse jalo honourable e tlhamaletse, ga se e re ka iphitlhang ka monwana mo go yone.

Le gore the rehabilitation process kana the programmes fa di siame sentle gone kwa dikgolegelong, integration into the society e nna motlhofo.
Motho wa teng fa a goroga, go goroga motho yo o tlhwatlhwa yo society e ntse e mo emetse.

Therefore, gone moo fela ka bogone, go raya gore go mo amogela mo lelwapeng, mo lesikeng, mo ditirong le mo botsaleng go nna motlhofo.

Ga go na kgang ya bo gore yo o tswa kwa, yo o tswa kwa.

The name labelling and all the sorts ga di nne teng.

Mo go rayang gore go nna motlhofo.

E bile gape inclusivity, it always has a means tested issue ya gore re a itse gore batho ba bangwe are habitual offenders and criminals.
Habitual offenders and criminals ke palo potlana, ba re itseng gore ee bao ba diphatsa, ga ba ise ba butswe mo re ka ba tsenyang foo.

Re dumela gore rehabilitation e e tlaa kgona golo gongwe, ga e ka ke ya kgona gotlhe.

E bile gape fa re re Clause e e lebiwe, re lebile gore re a itse gore e tshwanetse gore e nne means tested, go nne le tsela nngwe ya sekale e e reng ba re ka ba letlelelang ke ba ba ntseng jaana mme ba ba ntseng jaana, ga re ka ke ra ba letlelela.
O ya go fitlhela e le gore ba ba letlelelwang e ya go nna bo 90 or 95 per cent ya batho ba ba tswang kwa dikgolegelong.

So, means test will always be there, and it must be there in each and every decision-making and programme.

E bile gape Clause e fa re ka e sutisa, go tlaa re thusa gape gore re nne le… go a re pateletsa gore re nne le comprehensive economic policies.
Kana root cause e e dirang gore batho ba bo ba tsena mo dikgannyeng tsa tlhoko kutlo le tsa bosenyi, gantsinyana ga se go lekeletsa kana go kgatlhega, ke issue ya gore itsholelo ya motho e a bo e le kwa tlase, a hustle, a batla gore o ka tshela ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ee, re ka leba re tseela gore ga se lebaka.


Ga se lebaka mo go nna le wena ba re nang le itsholelo, mme ba ba senang itsholelo, ba ba senang eng, go raya gore ke mo go tweng go tshela yo o dithetsenyana and dithetsenyana o di kapetsakapetsa gongwe le gongwe gore o nne le botshelo.

Mo go rayang gore fa re nna le go ntsha Clause e, go tlaa re pateletsa gore jaanong re tlhame ditiro le gore our economic policies e nne tsone that will empower Batswana gore ba kgone go tshela.
Le ditshwetso tsa rona fa re di tsaya, e ya go nna ditshwetso tse e leng gore ga di na go nna selfish le go nna le extreme capitalist tendencies tse di tshwanang le tsa bo go rekisa meepo o rekisetsa motho a le mongwefela fa go neng go tshwanelwa ke gore go ka bo go benefit batho ba le 2,000 kana 3,000.

E nna profit ya motho a le mongwefela e e ka bong e tshetsa setšhaba.

Our policies; go ntsha this Clause fela will have a very positive and broad national impact on our policies.
Sa bofelo fela ke fetsa Mr Speaker… HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR KEKGONEGILE: You are welcome, o ka tswelela honourable.

MR REATILE: Through you Mr Speaker.

Thank you Honourable Kekgonegile.


Kana kgang e o e buang e mokaulengwe, go raya gore tota o tshwere thata moono wa Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) o o buang ka inclusivity, ‘leaving no one behind.’ Jaanong o re phatlalatsa setšhaba, re thulana le SDGs tse re tswang go di saenela kwa United Nations (UN) tse re ileng ra re jaanong Agenda 2063 ke yone jaanong re sianang ka yone.

So, we are departing from the Vision 2036 mme wena jaanong thero e o e rerang ke gore o tshwere baebele ya SDGs.
O a kopa gore leave no one behind, inclusive economy.

Ke sone fela se o se rerang mokauengwe ke re, tswelela o rere, Tona ke a bona gore jaanong o simolola to nod jaanong, o a go utlwisisa, o a go tlhaloganya.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki Honourable Reatile, kgang ke yone eo.
Clause 6(g), if I quote Mr Speaker, “not to be subject of an investigation by supervisory authority and investigating authority.” Ke dumela gore bakaulengwe ba e buile, Honourable Letsholo o e buile, o e gateletse, gore le rona re ipeye mo sekaleng sone seo.

Gone mo go rona mo, gongwe ke le mo teng, fa o ka tsena gone 34 Hansard No 204REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
48 OF 2021) Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 kwa Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC), Directorate on Intelligence and Security (DIS), Criminal Investigation Department (CID), kana kae, kae, o ya go fitlhela re na le files gone foo, and being investigated, mme re gone fa.
Ke tseela gore gone fa under the principle e ya gore ga o molato go fitlhelela o bonwa molato, and therefore, bone bao le bone, ba tshwanelwa ke gore re ba subject to the same principle ya gore you are not guilty until you have been proven guilty.

Le fa tse dingwe tsone di gatilwe fela, bosupi bo le bontsi, batho ba ka bo ba se mo screening jaana.

Tanki Mr Speaker.
Tanki Mr Speaker.

MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, mma ke leboge batlotlegi ba ba neng ba akgela mo kgannyeng yone e. Mma ke simolole ka Motlotlegi Rre Letsholo.
Rre Letsholo, ke tseela gore kgang ya gagwe ke gore tota gone o na le mathata le 6(a), e e buang ka gore fa o kile wa ya kwa kgolegelong kana wa kwa toronkong, o se ka wa tla wa bona phatlha kana seabe sa gore o nne motsayakarolo mo mmarakeng wa theko le thekiso ya matlo le ditsha.
Ke tseela gore se se buegang ke gore, ba FATF, ba bone phatlha kana fa go nang le risk teng ya gore fa e le gore go na le batho ba ba kileng ba amana kana ba tsena mo dikgang dingwe tsa go tlhoka tsebe, go tlhoka go reetsa, kana go tlhoka go obamela melao, e ka nna risk mo go rona gore re ba tsenye mo maemong one a. Kana maemo, ditiro, kana dikhumo tsone tse, ga se tsa mongwe le mongwe, di batla batho ba boleng le sebopego se se rileng.
Go batla batho ba sebopego le boleng jo bo kwa godimo ka gore ba dirisanya thata le dikgang tsa madi.

Ba amana thata le dikgang tsa ditsha le dikgang tse e leng gore gf ba batla, ba ka bona phatlha nngwe ya gore ba dire yone money laundering e go buiwang thata ka yone.

Jaanong se se buegang fa ke gore, ga go ise gotwe ba se ka ba hirwa, gatwe ba se ka ba hirwa fa.

Ga go ise gotwe ba se ka ba hirwa mo setšhabeng, nnyaa ga re rialo.
Ke bua ka Real Estate Professional’s Act, ga ke bue ka Palamente, ga ke bue ka gope gape.

Ka re mo thomong e ya ba Real Estate, ka gore ba amana thata le dikgang tsa madi le tse e leng gore go ka nna le kgonagalo ya gore go nne le money laundering, go tsile bogakolodi, Recommendation No.

28, e e neng e tswa kwa FATF, e e neng e re kopa gore re se ka ra tla ra boela mo seemong sa gore re tsene mo grey list.

Re baakanye dilo dingwe tse e leng gore di mo molaong ... MR MOATLHODI: Clarification.
Ke a go leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke a go leboga Motlotlegi rraetsho Tona le fa o nyonyoba go ntetla go go tsena mo ganong.

Mafoko a a neng a buiwa ke Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Maun Botlhaba, a a moko mo go kanakana, gore fa motho a isiwa kwa kgolegelong, maikaelelo ke gore a tle a apere letlalo le lesha, a fetogile, a tle e le phologolo e ntšha, e e tshwanetseng ya amogelwa mo setšhabeng.
How does FATF reconcile this statement le mafoko a ga Motlotlegi rraetsho Kekgonegile fa ke inaakanya le one?

MR MZWINILA: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Se ke se buang ke gore, ga ke ganetse gore fa motho a tswa kwa toronkong kana kwa kgolegelong, o tswa a agegile sešha.

Nnyaa, ke a dumalana.

Se ke se buang ke gore, go na le ditiro le dithomo dingwe tse e leng gore di amana thata le dikgang tse di ka tlang tsa re tsenya mo bothateng jwa gore re tsene gape mo grey list.
Nngwe ya ditiro kana dithomo tsone tseo, ke ya Real Estate Professionals, ka gore go lemogilwe gore go na le kgonagalo ya gore fa motho a batla, a na le keletso, o ka dira money laundering, o ka tlhatswa madi ka theko le thekiso ya ditsha.
Ga ke ise ke bue gope ke re motho fa e le gore o tswa toronkong ga a kake a hirwa gope fela, mme go na le fa e leng gore re tshwanetse gore re re nnyaa, a bo mankge ba dikgang tsone tsa money laundering ka gore ke tseela gore ba FATF ke batho ba e leng gore bana le boitseanape jwa gore money laundering e diragala ka tsela e e ntseng jang, e ka kgona go diragala ka ditsela tse di ntseng jang.
Fa ba buile gore go na le kgonagalo ya gore go diragale ka tsela e e ntseng jaana, mme risk e e ka nnang teng ke gore o tsenye batho ba e leng gore ba na le criminal record.

Ke a dumelana jaaka Motlotlegi Balopi a ne a bua gore re tshwanetse gore re obamele kana re reetse FATF, mme re tshwanetse gore le rona re bone gore re tswa jang re le tšhaba ya Botswana gore re dire dilo ka fa ngwaong le setho sa rona.
Kwa pheletsong ya letsatsi, re tshwanetse gore re lemoge gore se re buang fa, ke gore re bua ka kgang ya Real Estate Professionals.

Kgang e e leng gore go ka nna le money laundering mo go yone.

Motlotlegi Kekgonegile o ne a bua gore go na le kgonagalo ya gore ba e leng gore ba santse ba tlhotlhomisiwa, le bone ba tle ba kganelwe gore ba nne 35 Hansard No 204REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
48 OF 2021) Second ReadingMonday 31st January, 2022 le diteseletso tsa gore e nne Real Estate Professionals.

Se re se buang ke gore, fa o santse o tlhotlhomisiwa, ee, o ka nna wa kganelwa gore o nne le teseletso ya teng, mme gakere o a kgona gore o bo o fenya kana o bo o atlega mo ditlhotlhomisong tsa teng?

Fa o feditse ka ditlhotlhomiso tsa teng, o ka tla kwa go rona, re bo re golola teseletso eo.

Ga re reye gore re a gana fela re a gana.

Ra re fetsa pele le kgang ya gago.


O na le kgang, go na le bangwe ba ba nang le kgang le wena, ra re fetsa pele le kgang eo.

Morago ga kgang yone eo, o ka tla kwa go rona ra go neela teseletso fa o setse o feditse ka kgang ya teng, ba go bone gore ga o na molato.

MR REATILE: Clarification.

Thank you, sir.

Honourable Mzwinila, kgang e ke neng ke re re tlhaloganye gore ka fa o e tlhaloganyang ka teng le rona re e tlhaloganye motlotlegi.
Gone mme molao o re o dirang o Motlotlegi Mzwinila, fa re kopa o ka re sedimosetsa ka gore le a benchmark, o bereka kwa lefatsheng lefe le lefe, o gompieno rona re o fetisang mo Botswana o?

I thank you sir.

MR MZWINILA: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ga ke ka ke ka go neela list kana ke re mafatshe ke a.

Se ke se itseng ke gore mafatshe a a obamelang tsamaiso tsa FATF, ba obamela bogakolodi jwa teng.

Jaanong go raya gore ke tlaa boela kwa go wena ka list ya teng motlotlegi.
Se ke se buang ke gore, mafatshe otlhe a e leng gore a ka fa tlase ga kgang yone e ya FATF, ba obamela bogakolodi jwa teng, ba reetsa ba bo ba buisana ka bagakolodi jwa teng gore ba tle ba tseye ditshwetso tse di maleba.

MR MMOLOTSI: Clarification.


Minister, batlotlegi Mapalamente ba boeletse kgang e ya gore yone FATF, kgang e ya gore badiramolao ka sebele bone ba lebega o kare ga go kgathalesege gore ke ba sepopego se se ntseng jang mo kobamelong ya molao, e bo e le bone ba ba dirang molao, ba direla ba bangwe molao ka tsela e re dirang molao ka gone, batlotlegi ba tshwenyegile ka gone moo.

Wena o e bona jang?

MR MZWINILA: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Ke tsaya gore ke utlwile batlotlegi ba tshwenyega ka kgang ya teng, mme se ke ka se buang ke gore kana dikgang tsa FATF ga se dikgang tse o ka reng ke event, ke process.

Gongwe ba etla kwa go rona ga re itse, gongwe re tlaabo re le fa gape ngwaga o o tlang, go na le melawana e e buang ka Mapalamente, gongwe, ga ke itse.
36 Se ke se buang ke gore, ke ne ke le mo Eleventh Parliament, re tliseditswe melao e le 25 ya FATF, mme ka nako ya teng re ne re boleletswe gotwe ke melao ya bofelo ya gore re e obamele, re tlaabo re feditse le FATF.

Mo Twelfth Parliament go tlile e mengwe gape e le 16.
Se ke se itseng kana ke se tlhaloganyang ke gore, mo ditsamaisong tsa FATF, dilo di ntse di tsamaya bone ba ntse ba etla ba oketsa bogakolodi le dikgang tsa bone, gongwe go tlaa goroga nako ya gore go buiwe jalo ka Mapalamente, ga ke itse.

Ka o ne o mpotsa gore re ka se akanyetsa jang, ke tlaa go araba gore ke akanyetsa jang.

Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke tsaya gore ke lekile go araba batlotlegi ba ba neng ba akgela, ka tsela e ke neng ke ba araba ka yone.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Real Estate Professionals (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

48 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee - Later Date.

COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

36 OF 2021) Second Reading ACTING MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR MOLEBATSI): Mr Speaker, I have the honour to present before this Honourable House, for second reading, Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

36 of 2021).
36 of 2021).

The Companies Act was assented into law on the 3rd of July 2007.

The Act makes provision for updating and consolidation of the law relating to companies.

It makes provision for the registration of companies, issuance of shares, transfer of titles, share register and certificates, debentures, enforcement and winding up of companies, amongst others.
The object of the Bill is to amend the Companies Act in order to effect the ESAAMLG and FATF recommendations; are consequential to the enactment of the Movable Property (Security Interests) Act, 2021. amendments which and As respects the FATF recommendations, an assessment of the Act had reflected that our Act is not compliant with FATF standards.

There have been no specific provisions facilitating access to beneficial information, therefore such information is not publicly available.
As such, Hansard No 204COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

36 OF 2021) Second Reading Monday 31st January, 2022 in the absence of legal obligations, companies do not cooperate to the fullest extent possible with competent authorities in determining the beneficial owner.

Foreign competent authorities are also unable to access or obtain beneficial owner information.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kablay, o a bo o dirile jang?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke rometse leina la ga Honourable Matsheka sir.
to have Not all companies have been required constitutions by the Act.

There has also been no requirement for submission of a trust deed or trust instrument.

Consequently, financial institutions have not been required to obtain documents which contain powers of legal persons or documents which indicate powers that regulate and bind legal persons.
Having identified such challenges, Government has come up with a Bill to address the following: The Bill proposes an amendment of the Act to align the definition of “beneficial owner” with its meaning under the Financial Intelligence Act, as well as to extend the definition of “entitled person” so as to include a “beneficial owner,” and insert new definitions for “competent authority” and “nominator” to enable access to beneficial owner information by competent authorities.
The Bill further proposes to enable the Registrar to include beneficial owner information in the register, and to make the information publicly available.

All companies are required to have in place a constitution in order to enable financial institutions and other competent authorities to verify a company’s identity, as well as powers that regulate and bind the company as per the FATF standards.
In respects to consequential amendments to the Movable Property (Security Interests) Act 2021, Clause 2 amends Section 2, inserts the definition of “security interest” as defined in the Movable Property Act and Clause 17 to ensure the enforceability of security interests and their registration.
The key highlights of the Bill is seek to strengthen compliance by introducing administrative penalties for any non-compliance to the Act and amendments concerning records retention in order to align with the Financial Intelligence Act.

Mr Speaker, this concludes my presentation.

I now move that the Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2021, (No.

36 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

I have no list of any speakers.


MR SPEAKER: You send one name, and you call it a list?

(LOBATSE): Ke a DR MATSHEKA leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke akgele ka bokhutshwane mo Tshutisong e e beilweng Palamente e ke Tona wa Papadi.

Ke simolole pele Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke re, ke boammaaruri molao o o tsamaisana le tse di batliwang mo go rona re le Palamente gore re kgone gore re di baakanyetse gore lefatshe la rona le tswe mo list eo.
Re nne re tswelele re baakanye melao ya rona go ka nna mo seemong se re tlaa nnang batsayakarolo.

Ke ne ka bua maloba Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo, gore ka fa go lebegang ka teng le ka fa dilo di tsamayang ka teng, re tlile go bereka compliance.

Compliance e tlile go nna yone e tlhaolang mafatshe mo go kgoneng go gweba le mafatshe a mangwe.
Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, ga re na sebaka sa go kgona go lebelela gore tota mo itsholelong e nnyennyane ya lefatshe la rona la Botswana e e nang le Gross Domestic Profit (GDP) e e kalo, e gaisanya le mafatshe a matona a bo America le bo Europe, compliance cost e ya go nna bokae.

Ga re na nako ya go sekaseka gore a mme Regulatory Impact Assessment (RIA) e botlhokwa gore re kgone go dumalana gore nnyaa tota it would not affect small businesses ka tsela e e leng gore it is adverse.
Ga re na nako ya go dira jalo ka gore these requirements are actually in assessment that is done globally, driven indeed by larger economies in a fight against terrorism.

Ga re kgone go bua le gompieno gore fa re lebile the nature of our market, small businesses tse di leng teng, tota mme gone ra re these compliance requirements re ya go di tsaya ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Le bone maloba kgang ya kwa Russia, e a itshupa gore fa lefatshe le ntse le integrate le dirisa only similar forms of platforms tsa trade, sanctions are going to be easy to impose.

Jaaka re bona gompieno gore countries are considering sanctions against Russia which we draw a payment platform e e tshwanang le Visa, e e leng gore ke yone international platform for trade.
As long as economies are integrating and converging, we actually are going to have bigger problems around the voice of 37 Hansard No 204COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

36 OF 2021) Second Reading Monday 31st January, 2022 small countries and the voice of independent nations that want to really exempt themselves.
I am making the point Mr Speaker, gore integration in itself takes away power and control, and then ultimately payment platforms that are available to facilitate trade are actually going to be their weapon for us in the developing world.

I am making this point in particular because when I debated the Financial Intelligence Act, ke tlhalositse gore it is about international trade and we are going to have to distinguish countries re di farologanya ka compliance, purely compliance.
Therefore, small businesses in our economies are going to be the most challenged.

Di a go bereka kgatlhanong le maikaelelo a rona a gore re batla to promote dikgwebo tse dipotlana.

O tlhalositse Tona fa gore molao o o baakanngwa ka gore go ntse go sena ditshetla tse di pateletsang gore batho ba dire trusts, ba kgone go dira constitutions tse di ntseng jalo.
And we are just saying companies, ga gona pharologanyo ya the size of the business just to take on some of the points tse di neng di buiwa ke Rre Letsholo gore at the end of the day, some of the companies di dinnyennyane.

Of course re a tlhaloganya gore requirement gompieno ke gore re kgone go pateletsa institutions tsa dibanka and so forth gore ba kgone to provide information eo.
Kgang eo ke yone fela Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo, ke tlaa kopang gore Tona fa a fetola, a kgone gore a bue gore tota mme gone le fa e le gore di tswa kwa ntle, to what extent have we done Regulatory Compliance Assessment?

Kwa bokhutlong Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke batla go bua ka ntlha e le yosi, I think ke Clause 19 gore Tona a tle a e reconcile …(Inaudible)… to the Members of this Honourable House.
A tlhalose gore tota inconsistency between the seven years of keeping records le 20 years wa kwa Financial Intelligence Agency (FIA), le 20 years wa a dissolved company, what is a reconciliation gone foo?

This is really part of what I am saying ka compliance gore it becomes a bigger issue to have to maintain those records for dissolved companies for 20 years under the FIA Act which is …(Inaudible)… le yone ke 20 years.
We also see gore in terms of perhaps because it is not clear mo molaong, the assumption is that it is an active company and therefore yone it keeps records for seven years, I find that inconsistence gore maybe Tona a tle a e tlhalose fa a araba tse di builweng.

Kwa bokhutlong Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke gore ke nnete the law is really …(Interruptions)… disclosure so that re kgone to identify beneficial owners…(Interruptions)… Batho ba Modimo wee!
Tota Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo, ke lebogile, motho ke yo o gaisana le nna foo.

Tota I support the law, ke kopa gore Minister a tle a nkarabele tsone tse ke di buileng.

I thank you very much.

MR SPEAKER: I do not know why they are competing with you Doctor.

DR MATSHEKA: I do not know either sir.

… (Laughter!

)… MR BALOPI (GABORONE NORTH): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Ke tsaya ke re konokono ya melao e re e tlisitseng fa pele ga Palamente, e Puso e e tlisetseng kwano Tona a re e baya pele, ke go lwantsha botsuolodi mo mererong ya tsa itsholelo le go tsenya botlhoko tsebe mo mafatsheng, gongwe le batho ba ba tswang go sele kante bone benggae.

Konokono ya molao o wa Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

36 of 2021), o itebagantse thata le gone gore go botlhokwa thata gore go itsiwe beng ba dikgwebo le batsayakgamelo mo go gamelwang mo go yone.
Fa re ka se ke re dire jalo, go tlaa lebega e le gore re tlaabo re tsuolotse tsamaiso yone ya ba FATF e e leng gore go le pele go ntse go sena ditlhokego tse di teng ka bophara.

Tse di neng go batlega gore tota go salwe tsela morago ya gore kgwebo fa e gweba kante go kwadisiwa kgwebo e dira le ba ba tsamaisang le tsa madi ba dibanka jalo jalo, tota go tshwanetse go itsiwe gore ke mang yo e leng gore kwa bofelong mo kgwebong e ke ene moanelwa mogolo.
Re tlaa lemoga gore fa re bua jaana, re bua re le lefatshe le le golang.

Ke boela kwa kgannyeng e ke neng ka e bua kgantele gape Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, fa re bua ka tsa itsholelo gore fa re lebile bophara jaaka Rre Matsheka a ne a bua gore fa re bua ka go dirisanya ka melao ya mafatshefatshe e le bophara go le kalo, konokono ke gore re batla go tshephagala re le lefatshe.
Go itsiwe gore ga gona motho yo o ka tlang go tsamaisa botsuolodi kante dikgang tse di tlaa tsenyang botlhoko tsebe mo mererong ya tsa madi a dirisa lefatshe la rona go dira jalo ka melao e re e dumalaneng, re e beile menwana, re ikanne gore re tlaa dirisana le mafatshe a mengwe ka bophara.

E le se re tswang kgakala re se dira, re itsiwe re le lefatshe le re obamelang molao.

Gape di e tla di tsenya gone gore re ipotse re le lefatshe gore jaanong re ya go dira jang.
Jaanong ke bua le wena Tona Rre Molebatsi, gore re ya go dira jang jaaka re solofetse gore re batla go godisa tsone dikgwebo tse dipotlana, segolo bogolo tse di ikemetseng ka nosi.

Kana dikgwebo tse dipotlana lefatshe ka bophara, segolo jang mo lefatsheng le le golang le tshwana le 38 Hansard No 204COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

36 OF 2021) Second Reading Monday 31st January, 2022 Botswana jaana, ke tsone tse di nosetsang itsholelo gore e gole, small to medium enterprises.
Ga di mo Gaborone fela kana ga di in the eastern part of Botswana e e leng gore jaaka o bona le A1 e tsamaya jaana, mafelo a le mantsintsi a ditoropo le metse e metona di ganeletse ka kwano mme e gongwe le gongwe.

Le dikgwebo tse re tlaa batla gore jaaka kgantele go ne go na le puo e e neng e buiwa gore re batla gore dikgwebo di kgone go tsamaya kante batho ba ungwele kwa mafelong a a kgakala le mo ditoropong.
Ke sone se o bonang Puso e atolosa maranyane, e dira gore mongwe le mongwe a fitlhelele go dira dilo tse di rileng.

Potso ke gore bone ba ba koo ba ya go fitlhelela jang gore motho a itse gore Constitution ke eng, o ya go kwadisa trust a dira jang?

Se setonatona se ke se buang ke gore go ruta kana go tlhalosetsa ka gore fa o re motho o ka tswa e le mogwebi yo monnyennyane a le kwa Tonota, gongwe ene o ka se ke a amege mo goreng ditsuolodi di ka mo dirisa.
Fela jaaka re ne re bua ka soccer teams, dikereke, ka eng, batho ba kgona go ya go itlhophela go dirisa dikgwebo tse dinnyennyane tse di farologanyeng mo mafelong a a farologanyeng, a a ka tswang a le kgakala le kwa batho ba le bantsi ba itseng gore tsamaiso ya itsholelo e remeletse teng.

Batho bao e bo ba dirisiwa ka bongwe ka bongwe in the largest scheme of things.

E bo e felela e le gore ke batho ba bantsi ba ba kgonang gore madi ao, a bo a tlhatswegile, a tsamaya jalojalo.
Ba sa dira Constitutions tseo and trusts.

The beneficiaries tsa dikgwebo tse di nnyennyane di phatlalatse lefatshe ka bophara, e bo e le gore ke bone kwa bofelong ba yang go ungwelwa, ba ya go tlhatswa madi, e bile ba ya go dira bonokwane ka tsone.

Ntswa ke amogela tse o di beileng pele gore go tlaare re ikamanye le gore kwa bofelong re se ka ra bona go ntse jalo, mme gape re boe re e bapise le ease of doing business mo mothong yo a ithutuntshang a simolola.

Re ya go dira jang?

Re ya go ba ruta jang?


Re ya go ba rotloetsa jang gore kwa bofelong, ba felele ba kwadisa mme go sa sa lope madi a a kwa godimo kana ditshenyegelo tse di ka tswang di le teng?

Ditshenyegelo associated le dikgwebo tsa mefuta e re batlang go ya kwa go one gore re itebaganye le matshwenyego a a tshwenyang FATF and ESAAMLG.

E tle e re kwa bofelong le rona re itsewe re le lefatshe le le siameng gore re gwebe.

Ke batla re itebaganye le yone eo.


Fa o lebelela sekai; re le Puso e busang, ke le Mopalamente wa ga Domkrag jaana, re ne re rekisa maitlamo a rona.

Re ne re sa itse gore go tlaa tla FATF.

Rre Mzwinila fa ke mo utlwa sentle, a re mo Palamenteng ya Bolesome le Bongwe, e ne ya re fa ba dira melao e mentsi e e fetang masome a mabedi, ga nna le kgang ya gore ke yone ya bofelo.
E rile fa re dira maitlamo a, re bo re a dira re itse gore nako ya teng go ne gotwe melawana e, ke yone ya bofelo e e baakanyang gore re siamelwe go ya kwa pele mo go tsa tirisano le mafatshe ka ditumalano tsa FATF.

Re ne ra bua re re, we want to grow the private sector.

Ra bo ra supa gore fa re dira private sector re e godisa jaana, se e leng konokono ke gore go ya go nna le ease of doing business.

Go nne motlhofo gore motho a dire kgwebo.


Fa gongwe re itebagantse le gore o nne le kgwebo e e letlelesegang mo melaong ya Botswana.

O bo o latisisa gore o ya go dira tsotlhe tse di tlhokafalang tsa go e kwadisa, go itse gore ke ya ga mang, e bile ke mang yo o ungwelwang mo go yone segolobogolo.

Fa o sena go nna o dira kgwebo eo, go ka thusa Batswana ka ba ntse ba sa kgone go tsena mo kgwebong ka ditshetlana kana maparego a a mantsi.
Ditshetlana tse, di ne di sa ba letlelele go tsena mo kgwebong ka bofefo.

Ba bo ba thusiwa gore ...(inaudible)... Rre Molebatsi, maikaelelo a rona ke go thusa Batswana go ya kwa pele.

Re na le maikaelelo gape a gore re batla re se ka ra tsena mo blacklist.

Re se ka ra bonwa re le botshabelo jwa disinyi.

Re ya go dira jang gore re bapise dikgang tse pedi tse gore re ye kwa pele, re nonotsha itsholelo ya rona le Motswana.

Re buile ka inclusivity and the targeted citizen.


Targeted citizen e, re raya yo o kwa morago mo go tsa itsholelo, mo go ungweleng lefatshe le, segolobogolo e le motsayakarolo yo o nonofileng mo go lone.

Fa re tla ka melao ya merero ya tsa madi, gore re heme botlhokotsebe, re tshwanetse re e bapise le gore re ya go dira jang ka this targeted citizen, Motswana wa sekei.

Ke raya yo o ntseng a sa kgone go ungwelwa segolobogolo, re mo pepetletse, re mmabalele gore a itse ditsamaiso tse ka nako.
A bo a ungwelwa a sa kgorelediwe ke ditshetlana tse e leng gore fa a sa di dira, o nna ka fa mosing.

Ka jalo, ke amogela molao o. Molao o, re batla gore kwa bofelong, re bone gore ga go na ope yo o iphitlhang ka monwana kana… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa tlhaloso.

MR BALOPI: Ee rraetsho.

MR SALESHANDO: Point of clarification.


Mr Speaker, fa o ntetla, o ne a feta ka kgang ya gore molao o tlaa thusa targeted citizen yo o builweng kwa Economic Inclusion, mme re sale re teilwe gatwe re tlaa tla re fiwa 39 Hansard No 204COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

36 OF 2021) Second Reading Monday 31st January, 2022 melwana e tlhalosang gore fa gotwe targeted citizen go tewa mang?
Fa o setse o itse gore go tewa mang, o ne o ka e atolosa, e seng go bua ka bophara gore yo o sa kgonang go tsena mo itsholelong.

A go setse go na le tlhaloso fela e papametseng gore targeted citizen go tewa mang, a nna le wena re mo teng kana go na le ba bangwe ba ba akantsweng?

MR BALOPI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Moeteledipele wa Diphathi tsa Kganetso mo Palamenteng, ke le moemedi wa Batswana, ba ba nthomileng gore ke tle Palamenteng, fa ke ne ke reeditse molao o nako e o neng o buiwa, le ditshetlana tse ke di bonang mo go one, ke lemoga gore motho yo go buiwang ka ene thata fa, ke yo o sa tsayang karolo e lolameng mo go tsa kgwebo.

Ke motho yo o lebegang a saletse kwa morago mo nakong ya gompieno mo go tantabeleng pele, mo go ungwelweng mo lefatsheng le.
Ke sone se o bonang ke itirela my interpretation on the basis ya gore ke eteletse ba ke itseng gore fa ke ba lekodisa, ba ipona ba le gone foo gore molao o re o diretsweng o, ke o re tlaa thusiwang.

O patilwe ke ditshetlana tse di tsamaelanang le gore re ya go dira jang gore motho yo o ntseng a le mo mosing mo go ungwelweng mo itsholelong, a kgone go tsena.

Go lebega e le Motswana wa sekei yo e leng gore mo nakong ya gompieno o ungwetswe jaaka Batswana ba sebopego se se farologanyeng le ene.
Ga ke itse gore a go setse go na le interpretation e e leng gore mongwe le mongwe fa a bua ka yone, o ka re Motswana wa sekei go tewa semangmang le semangmang kana ke mo teng, kana Rre Saleshando le ene o mo teng.

Ke tsaya gore fa o le Motswana yo o ntseng o seyo mo mererong e segolobogolo, ke gone mo go itebagantsweng le wena gore le wena o nne motsayakarolo.

Kwa bofelong, re batla gore inclusion e, e akaretse botlhe, a o Motswana wa sekei, you are the targeted citizen kana o ipitsa eng.
Se se tona ke gore, re batla gore kwa bofelong, e bo go lebega meamuso ya lefatshe la Botswana e ama batho ka kakaretso.

Bogolo e nne wena yo o ithontshang go tsaya karolo.

Puso e eteletse pele gore o ungwelwe mo lefatsheng.

Ka jalo, ka ke sa tswa go bua thata ka interpretation ya targeted citizen, se ke neng ke leka go se bua ke gore, Tona e re a tla go boa, re sekaseka dikgang tse, a bo a tla ka… Ke a itse dilo tse dingwe gore re ya go dira jang, di tlaa tla fa re setse re bua ka regulations.
Re ya go dira jang gore Motswana mongwe le mongwe a bo a tsisa Constitution, a dira trust, a kwadisa gore mme tota moanelwamogolo mo kgwebong e ke mang.

O tlaa tla ka dikgang tseo.

A leke go le sedimosetsa gore Motswana kwa gae, golo fa re buelela bone.

A kgone go tlhaloganya gore kgang e, ga se gore e ya go mo kgoreletsa go tsena mo kgwebong.
E ya go mo thusa gore kgwebo ya gagwe e nne mo seemong se e leng gore e tlaare nako nngwe go na le mmeeletsi yo o maleba yo o nonofileng, a batla go beeletsa mo go yone, kana e tlaare nako nngwe a gola a batla go tsena mo mafatsheng a mangwe, e re a sekasekwa, a bo a bonwa gore o setse tsamaiso ya mafatshefatshe ya madi e kgoreletsang botlhokotsebe mo mererong eo.
Ka jalo, ke ka itumela thata Tona fa e kare o tla, wa re ntsha pelo pelaelo gore re se ka ra nna sebete se molangwana gore a mme ga go na go kgoreletsa mogwebi o mmotlana ope fela yo o ka ungwelwang go ya kwa pele.

Ke eme molao o nokeng o.

A re boneng gore rotlhe re a o tlhaloganya, gape ga o re kgoreletse go tsena ka mmetela, maatlametlo le maatla mo mererong ya tsa kgwebo.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Balopi.


ACTING MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR MOLEBATSI): Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke lebogele dikakgelo tse di humileng thata, tse di maleba ka batlotlegi ba babedi ba ba sa tswang go bua.

Mr Speaker, mma ke simolole gongwe ka ya ga Rre Matsheka.

Rre Matsheka o bua boammaruri jwa gore compliance e tlaa tla ka go tura kana ditlhwatlhwa dingwe tse di neng di ntse di seyo.
Gape o bua gore kana fa re ntse re kopana le mafatshefatshe go raya gore re dire dingwe tse ba re tlamang ka gore re kopane le bone.

Gongwe ke gatelele gore kana go kopana mo le mafatshefatshe jaaka re tsene mo FATF le bo ESAAMLG ga re pateletswe, ke rona re tsereng tshwetso.

Re tsaya tshwetso ka gore re batla gore le rona re nne mo mmepeng wa go gweba le mafatshefatshe.
Go na le mafatshe a a ka se keng a phuthologe le go gweba le rona ba sa itse ditsamaiso tsa rona tsa tshenyetso- setšhaba mo lefatsheng la rona, gongwe lefatshe la rona e le lone le go tlhatsiwang madi mo go lone, le dira dilo tsotlhe tse di bosula.

Gongwe go tlhamalala ke re ee, ke dumalana le ene gore the compliance cost ya gore re kgone go tsena mo makgotleng one a, e ka nna ya babalela Small Micro and Medium Enterprises (SMMEs) kana bagwebi ba ba potlana.
Re tshwanetse re tlhophe (choose) gore as a country, we want to be isolated, re nne koo kana re tsena mo go bone bo ESAAMLG go leka gore lefatshe la rona 40 Hansard No 204COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

36 OF 2021) Second Reading Monday 31st January, 2022 e se ka ya nna lone le go direlwang dilo mo go lone.

Ditlamorago tsa go sa tsena mo go tsone tse di ka dira gore lefatshe la rona le kgaphelwe kwa ntle.
Gongwe ke fe sekai fela; e bo e le gore ga re kgone gore fa o tla o tswa mo Botswana, VISA Card ya gago, ga o kgone go e dirisa kwa London, Sweden kana gope fela.

Sone se se ka babalela Batswana gape.

Batswana re batho ba ba gwebang kwa ntle, re ya dikoleng le meetings.
I can imagine fela Rre Saleshando a ile meeting kwa Nigeria kana kwa Kenya wa Palamente, a tshwanelwa ke gore a tsamaye ka madi a mantsintsi ka gore fa e le gore origin ya gagwe ke Botswana, ga a letlelelwe ka gore ba re kgaphetse kwa ntle.

Ke sone se re se tshabang ka bone bo grey listing ba.

Ke dumalana le wena, SMMEs kana se re se buang gompieno ra re, dikompone di a patikega jaanong gore di dire constitution.
Kana constitution fa o e dira, kana bangwe le nna tota ke le fa, ga ke itse gore constitution e dirwa jang, go tlaabo go raya gore re batle consultants kana batho ba ba ka re thusang go dira jalo.

Ke rurifatse gape, ke solofetse gore re le lephata, re ya go bereka le ba Companies Intellectual Property Authority (CIPA) gore ba dire gore go nne motlhofo, re rute batho.

Le yone constitution re ba supegetse format kana tsela ya go e dira.
Re tsene kwa bathong gore go nne motlhofo gape go se ka ga nna turu mo go kalo gore ba e dire.

Re tshwanetse go tshwaraganela namane ya tiro e yotlhe re le Mapalamente le wena Rre Matsheka.

Bana ba gago ba ba batlang go dira dikompone kwa Borolong kana Lobatse, le bone re kgone go ba thusa ka go isa tsone dilo tse.

O ne a botsa gape gore a re dirile Regulatory Impact Assessment (RIA) go bona fela gore yone melao e tota, ditlamorago tsa yone, ke eng ka yone kgang ya go turela ba dikgwebo tse di potlana.
Ga re a dira RIA.

Kana golo mo re reng constitution mo re go buang, ga se la ntlha go dirwa.

Ke selo se se kileng sa nna teng.

Go kile ga nna le Articles of Association, Memorandum.

Kana information e e batliwang gone mo, ke selo se re kileng ra bo re se dira re bo re se ntsha, re batla go dira gore ease of doing business, re kgone go tsamaelana le ba ba neng ba bua gore re kgone to score marks mo ease of doing business, the turnaround time ya go dira kompone, e tshwanetse gore e nne bonako.
Nngwe ya dilo tse re neng re tseela gore di dira gore turnaround time ya rona e nne telele, ke dipampiri tse dintsintsi tse di batlegang ka go dira kompone.

Se jaanong ka maswabi, re boela gone koo gore re tsenye dipampiri tse dingwe gore go se ka ga nna dipampiri tse di potlana jaaka gompieno ka gore re batla gore re bo re tsamaisanya le recommendations tsa bo FATF.

Gape ke gatelele gore kompone nngwe le nngwe e tshwanetse go dira constitution regardless of size, a ke SMME kana ke e tonatona.
Kana constitution e supa gore beng ba kompone ke bomang, kompone e tsamaisiwa jang, governance issues tsa kompone, ke mang yo o saenang madi a botona jo bo kana fa a tswa, ke mang yo o amogelang madi, all the issues tsa governance.

Ke sone se re batlang go se latela gore fa e le gore madi mo komponeng a fitlhiwa mo bangweng, go bo go nna motlhofo gore go kgone go bonwa gore tota yone kompone e e tsamaisiwa ke mang.
Kana batho ba ba iphitlhang mo dikomponeng, go tewa ba kwadile kompone ka maina a batho ba sele, mme ditsamaiso le bank accounts di saenwa gongwe ke motho a le mongwefela.

Ke gone mo go supafalang gore le kompone e ka tswa e na le batho ba le 10, mme the beneficial owner ke yo, yo o laolang gore kompone e tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jang, e kopana ga kae, meetings tsa teng di tsena ga kae mo ngwageng, minutes tsa meetings go buiwa eng, all those things and all the communication.
Ke yone communication e e tsamaelanang le Article 19 ya seven years e e buang gore copies of written communication for all beneficial owners and shareholders that has to be shown.

E ya seven years e tsamaelana le recommendation ya FATF, ke yone e e reng seven years.

20 years ke recommendation ya Financial Intelligence Agency (FIA) Act.

Re di tsentse tsotlhe ka gore ke recommendations tse di farologaneng, mme di a tsamaelana.
Ya FIA Act e batla gore information ya company at least, e bo e beilwe for 20 years.

Ga o ka ke wa dira kompone gompieno, o bo o dira se o se dirang ka yone kamoso, o bo o e tswala o e phuaganya o tsamaya o ya go dira e nngwe.

Re ya go sala ka information eo e ka fa molaong e tshwanetseng go nna for 20 years.
Rre Balopi le ene o ne a bua ka ease of doing business gore kana fa re ne re dira, tla ke ye gongwe kwa phathing ya rona ya ga Domkrag, maitlamo re ne re re re ya go dira gore go nne motlhofo le bofefo gore re dire business.

Ke yone ease of doing business.

Ke sone se re neng re ntshitse tsone dipampiri tse dintsintsi.

Ee, go boammaaruri gore jaanong kana FATF le yone ya re re tsenye dipampiri tse di supang gore motho kana kompone e ke ya ga mang, mme gore e supe ke yone constitution.
Ke busetsa potso yone e gore re tshwanetse re tlhophe gore are we still going through with the World Trade Organisation (WTO) ya ease of doing business kana re batla to be blacklisted.

Those are the two choices that we must make.

Gore ke eng mo go tlaa kokonelang Batswana le gone go feta, ke to be black listed.

41 Hansard No 204COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
36 OF 2021) Second Reading Monday 31st January, 2022 Maloba go kile ga diragala gotwe VISA cards tsa Batswana tsa mo embassies, ga di dirisiwe, ga di letlelelwe kwa mafatsheng.

A re batla gone moo?

Rona re tsere tshwetso ya gore nnyaa, re tlaa sala ba morago, mme fela boammaaruri ke gore re ya go kokonelwa ke issue ya the ease of doing business.

Re ya go tshwaelwa kwa tlase mo index ya teng.


Fa re ka seke re eme ka dinao re le ba Companies and Intellectual Property Authority (CIPA) gore re le lephata gore re bone gore tsone difomo tse le fa di na le information e e tlhokafalang di nne motlhofo go le kae gape, di kgone gore di tlisiwe ka bofefo jo bo kae.

Se se raya gore the turnaround time ya to register the company e ka nna ya nna impacted fa e le gore motho o tshwanetse gore a ye go dira constitution.
A bo a bua gore how do we reconcile the issue ya inclusivity, gongwe batho ba le kgakala kwa magaeng jaaka kwa dikgaolong tsa bo Mma Monnakgotla le Honourable Motsamai.

Jaanong ke sone se ke se buang gore, re ya go lwa gore re bone gore re ruta batho, message o a goroga kwa bathong gore, kana dikompone go fetogile, go tshwanetse gore go dirwe jalo, mme re dira go le motlhofo.
Ke re kana go dira gone mo, fa molao o o feta jaaka o tlaabo o feta jaana gatwe, kana re ipeetse seelo sa gore, le ba FATF gore re bo re dirile, dikompone tse di senang constitutions in 12 months di bo di dirile constitutions.

Fa o na le company gone foo that is operating le gompieno e sena constitution, re tshwanetse gore re bo re dirile this thing in 12 months, go raya gore go batla thuto e e tseneletseng.

Ya inclusivity; yone eo ke dumela gore ka thuto e re tlaa re Batswana ba tlaa akaretswa.
Targeted citizen; potso ya gore targeted citizen ke eng, regulations di tsamaya fa kae, kwa lephateng ba santse ba bereka mo regulations.

Mme kana tlhaloso e nna gore, targeted citizen re ne re bua Motswana yo o saletseng kwa morago, gongwe ka dikgang tsa gore ka bong, ka dingwaga tsa gagwe, thutego ya gagwe, le gore o tswa fa kae mo lefatsheng la rona, ka gore o supa gore Batswana bangwe ba santse ba saletse kwa morago mo go akoleng meamuso ya lefatshe la rona.
Ke dumela gore regulations di tlaa tswa mo bogautshwanyaneng, di tlaa tla di tlhalosa go feta se ke se tlhalositseng.

MR SALESHANDO: Ke kopa tlhaloso Tona.

Ke a go leboga.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke re ke botse Tona ka gore o ntse a le mo go lone Lephata la Trade le le lebaganeng le go ntsha regulations tsa go tlhalosa…re bua go le gantsi nako le nako re ntse re re Batswana ba a go thusiwa ke melao e ya economic inclusion, o o saleng o fetile ngwaga o o fetileng.
Re tswa dikgaolong re ntse re botswa gore a ke targeted citizen, ke lebelele eng?

Ga re ka ke ra re fa wena o bonwa o saletse kwa morago … regulations tse tota di a go tswa leng, batho ba tle ba itse gore fa re ntse re re re fetisitse melao e tlaa ba thusa, di tshwerwe ke eng?

Ka gore gantsi fa o dira molao o a bo o setse o itse gore regulations di a go tla di le mo sebopegong se se ntseng jang.

A go na le nako e o ka e bayang gore tota re di solofetse mo nakong e e kae?
MR MOLEBATSI: Regulations honourable, ke namane e tona ya tiro e e dirwang.

Mme jaaka ke bua, fa ke tlhola la bofelo ke ne ke itse gore ba ne ba santse ba dira the economic empowerment office pele, go bo go batliwa coordinators, coordinator wa economic empowerment office, kwa ke tseelang gore e tlaa re fa kgwedi ya February e a go fela ba bo ba setse ba… ka gore ba ne ba rile April.

Ke itse fela gore ba ne ba laelwa ke bagolo gore a go dirweng ka bofefo, segolo e re bo February le bo le e dirile.
Fa re sena go nna re dira economic empowerment coordinator le economic empowerment office ke dumela gore regulations e tlaa nna selo sa bofefo mo go kalokalo.

Ga ke ka ke ka go fa letsatsi la gore regulations di tlaa nna leng, mme maikaelelo a rona ke gore, ee regulations di bo di fedile by the 1st of April 2022.

MR LEUWE: Clarification Mr Speaker.

Thank you Mr Speaker.


Ke ne ke re ke ne ke utlwa Tona a bua ka gore dikompone that operates in 12 months di bo di setse di dirile constitutions, mme e bile ba tlaa ya go tswelela ba rutwa thata.

Ke botsa Tona gore a ga re ke re tsoge re bona kamoso ba rontsha Batswana ditshwanelo tsa bone, ntateng ya gore ga ba ise ba dire constitutions tse ka gore ga ba ise ba ye go ba ruta, jaaka a sa tswa go tlhalosa gore ba a go tsamaya ba ba ruta gore ba tle ba dire constitutions ka gore ba setse ba operate.
Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)…say that?

MR MOLEBATSI: Ee rra, ke mo utlwile.

MR SPEAKER: Ee, mo arabe.

MR MOLEBATSI: Fela jaaka diphetogo dingwe tse re di dirileng gone kwa CIPA re ne re ipeela nako, seelo, mme Batswana responded fela sentle ka nako.

Re tseela gore le yone e fa thuto re tlaabo re e tsenya mo Batswaneng, mme re kopa gore le lona Mapalamente 42 Hansard No 204COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
36 OF 2021) Second Reading Monday 31st January, 2022 le thuse ka thuto ya teng, ka gore tota re busetsa selo se se kileng sa bo se le teng, ga re tle ka sepe fela se sesha mo go kalo.

Dikompone di kile tsa bo di dira dipampiri tse, ke gore re bo re supa format e gongwe e neng e le motlhofo gore o e dire, le gongwe gore ka mabaka… (inaudible)… e a boela.

Ke re ke fetse ke riana Mr Speaker, ke tlhalosetse Mapalamente a a tlotlegang le Batswana ka kakaretso gore ga se phetogo epe e e kalokalo.
Phetogo e ke e e dirang gore re kgone go latedisa motlhala wa madi le tshenyetso- setšhaba, a a dirisiwang through companies.

Kompone ke yone fela e e kgonang gore e tshware madi, e kgone gore e duelwe, mme re tshwanetse gore re latedise golo moo.
Batswana bangwe, ke e fa sekai, gongwe kwa construction companies, e ne e re fa go na le tender gongwe dikompone di le five Batswana ba bo ba tla kwa go rona ba bua gore kana dikompone that tendered tse di shortlisted di five, e tswa e le maina a a farologaneng, mme ke tsa motho a le mongwe fela… a tsentse bomonnawe, batho ba bangwe, babereki ka... mme fela fa o ya kwa accounts o bo o fitlhela e le gore fa Goromente a duela nngwe ya tsone dikompone tse e e fentseng, go duelwa motho a le mongwe fela.
Le go bua ka dikompone tsa Machina gore, kana ke companies di le dingwe fela, fela.

Ke tsone dilo tse re batlang gore re di itse, re itse fela gore mong wa company ke mang, beneficial owner, yo o felelang a a ja meamuso ya company ke mang.

Ke feleletse gore a Batswana ba se ka ba tshoga, se ke gore re baakanye dilo tse gore batho ba ba ntseng ba iphitlha ba se ka ba iphitlha ba ya kololo, re sa itse gore ba fa kae.
Le gore constitution ga se sepe fela se se kalo, ke selo se re tlaa se dirang gore se nne motlhofo.

Ka a le kalo Mr Speaker ke a leboga.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Elucidation Mr Speaker.

Tanki Honourable Assistant minister.

Kana gone fa e ne e le gore go bua ke go dira, lona tota le batho ba e leng gore kwa go bueng, nnyaa le World Cup ya go bua le ka e bona.
Fa e ne e le gore go bua ke go dira re ne re ka re, ee dikgang tse di ntseng jalo di botlhokwa thata, e bile re lebile gore kana gompieno go a go rekisiwa dikoloi tsa Central Transport Organisation (CTO) mme bangwe ke ba ba ikgobokantse ba ya go tsaya cruisers tsotlhe, mme kana le na le tsamaiso ya gore mang o tsaya tse kae, mang o tsaya tse kae.

Kana ba ikgobokantse, mme le ba lebile fela ga go na sone se le se dirang.
Jaanong tsone dilo tseo fa e ne e le gore fa le bua jalo le a dira, jaaka le na le melawana e e kganelang dilo tseo tsa bo go ikgobokanya or go dirisa batho ba bangwe go reka dikoloi tsa CTO go tla go di rekisa gape mo garages tsa bone, e ka bo e le gore dilo tse le a di kganela, but Honourable Molebatsi, le fa ke re fa e ne e le gore o a dira e ka bo e le sengwe, mathata a lona a matona ke gone go tlhoka go dira.
Gone mo fa le ne le ka address it le ne le ka dira sengwe, but ga le na rehabilitation capacity, ga le ka ke la address... Tanki Tona.

MR MOLEBATSI: Mr Speaker, kana o nyatsa gore a re tlaa dira.

Mma ke go netefaletse gore re tlaa dira Honourable Member.

Mo go nyatseng ga gago, ke utlwa boitumelo jwa gore mme re tlaa thiba kana re tlaa tila dilo dingwe tse di sa siamang jaaka ya gore batho ba bo ba dirisiwa go reka dilo tsa Central Transport Organisation (CTO).
Gakere ke gone re tlaa bonang gore madi a a rekileng dilo tse tsa CTO a tswa kae le gore fa e sena go nna di rekisiwa, madi a ya kwa go mang.

Ke sone se re se direlang molao o. Ke dumela gore o dumalana le rona.

Ke go tlhomamisetse rraetsho gore re tlaa dira.

Re kopa gore le Batswana ba se ka ba salela kwa morago le bone, a ba dire.

E tlaabo e le ka fa molaong gore di dirwe, otherwise kompone jaanong e se ke e kgone gore e tswelele e gwebe fa e sa comply.

Mr Speaker, I have concluded my presentation.


I now beg to move that the Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

36 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee – Later Date.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I have a notice of a Motion by the Leader of the House which affects the Second Reading of the next Bill, Criminal Procedure and Evidence.
Before I call upon the Leader of the House, His Honour the Vice President, because of the information which I have, part of it which he also does not have, I thought I should say that I am an interested party in the sense that I sat here for three hours listening to your debates whether or not we should allow Honourable Mmusi to get ...(Inaudible)… that this Bill we should be coming at number 7, Criminal Procedure, should be brought under a Certificate of Urgency.
I still remember your arguments and I suspect that when we go to the Second Reading, you are going to be repeating and go into more details than at the first stage.

43 Hansard No 204COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
36 OF 2021) Second Reading Monday 31st January, 2022 I said I am an interested party, the 16 Bills which the Second Readings we have just done, will need to go to Committee and after Committee, if they go through the Committee, the Clerk will have to certify each and every Bill as would have been passed by yourselves, before the they can be sent to the Government Printer and the Attorney General for them to do their part so that the President can sign them into law before the deadline which we were given.
If we go into the Second Reading of this Criminal Procedure and Evidence (Controlled Investigations), there is no way that we can them interrupt it to ...(Inaudible)… early and the time which will be left for the Clerk to certify all the 17 Bills, is going to be very short and the Government Printer might not be able to do all of them at that time, hence my interest that having seen the proposed Motion by the Leader of the House, I thought in also having seen four pages of the proposed amendments by the Minister himself to this Bill, we shall all ...(Inaudible)… for 30 minutes.
I have a fear that you will need great debate on this Bill, hence I thought I should lay that before I call upon the Leader of the House to move his Motion and explain his own reason.

BUSINESS MOTION LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Mr Speaker, I am also having a very difficult situation before me here in the sense that this Bill is supposed to go for Second Reading and as we all know that it was brought under Certificate of Urgency and nothing at this point negates that.
If there is anything that negates that, it is that Members are not very comfortable with the Bill.

We also appreciate your reservations about some processes of the Bill.

That having been said Mr Speaker, I brought this Business Motion from Parliament.

I talked to the Minister himself and he is amenable to delay it a little bit, but he wanted to do so after passing the second stage, which your explanation Mr Speaker negates that procedure.
So, I entirely agree with you that probably once it has been put on motion, it would not be easy to stop it or it will not be procedural to stop it.

So, I hope the Minister will bear with me that on that understanding, I must read this Business Motion or pass it, unless he has got an intervention he wants to make, his views be known at this point before I do so.

If you can call him to make a comment as well Mr Speaker.

Just briefly.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mmusi.


MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Mr Speaker, mabaka a builwe.

Jaaka His Honour a bua, ke ne ke ntshitse mabaka a me gore gongwe ke dire Second Reading and then debated e bo e re fa go ya go tsenwa mo Committee Stage e bo e nama e emetse kwa morago go fetisiwa the other 16 Bills, e bo e nngwe e e tla kwa morago.
Ka o bua gore gongwe le na le challenge ya capacity kwa Palamenteng gore gongwe fa re ka dira jaana, we will not be able to meet the deadline, then I will agree with what is being proposed.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Which is?

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Which is that I must read the Business Motion now.


BUSINESS MOTION MR TSOGWANE: Mr Speaker, I beg to move in terms of Standing Order 30.2 that this Honourable House deals and proceeds with all the remaining stages of the 16 Bills that have gone through the Second Reading before the commencement of the Second Reading of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence (Controlled Investigations) Bill, 2022 (No.

1 of 2022).
1 of 2022).

This is to allow for the simultaneous processing of the other Bills whilst the House deals with the Second Reading of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence (Controlled Investigations) Bill, 2022 (No.

1 of 2022).

I thank you Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ao!

ga le o boele morago go riana?

Nna ka re le o boela morago.

Batho ga a ba o batle.

MR TSOGWANE: Wena kana o tsoga dinako tsotlhe mo borokong, ga ke tlhaloganye mathata a gago.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang, kgang e ya gore a e boelwa morago kana ga e boelwe morago, le tlaa e tšhotlha fa re ya kwa …(Interruptions)… For now, kopo ya ga Mothusa Tautona ke gore, a re nameng re beetse Second Reading ya Molao-Kakanyetso o fa tlhoko le tle le tswelele ka Bills tse 16 tse le setseng le di dirile, re ye kwa committees tsa teng go direla gore fa le ka di dumalana, e re tseo bo clerk ba tsweletse ka to certify them ka kwa, le bo le tshotlha kgang e ya Bill e. A le a e dumalana kana ga le e dumalane, nako ya teng e tlaa tla.
44 Hansard No 204BUSINESS MOTIONMonday 31st January, 2022 MR SALESHANDO: Ke kopa tlhaloso mo dintlheng tse pedi; ya ntlha ke gore se Tona Mmusi a dumalanang le sone e bile se buiwa, ke gore this Bill ga e urgent, e ka nama e eme.

That is number one, gore go dumalwane gore the urgency is no longer there on this Bill.
Sa bobedi ke gore, fa e le gore kamoso re tsena mo Committee Stage, go na le amendments tse di submitted, ga go na ope wa rona yo o di boneng, go raya gore at the earliest re ka di bona kamoso.

Re ya go fiwa nako e kae go lebelela those amendments before we start debating the Committee State ya the Financial Intelligence Bill, the main Bill e re buang ka yone?

Re ya go fiwa nako e kae go lebelela amendments tse di dirwang?

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Saleshando.
My understanding is the urgency on the Criminal Procedure and Evidence (Controlled Investigations) Bill, 2022 (No.

1 of 2022) remains as indeed the Motion by this House indicated.
All that is being done is that they are trying to explain that … (inaudible)… is that of the 16 Bills whose Second Reading you have just done, if we do not proceed to those Bills in Committee and proceeded with the Second Reading of this last Bill, it will mean that no committee will be dealt with until we are through with the Second Reading.
From what I saw last week when you were asked for Certificate of Urgency, and the amendments as I say I have seen from the Minister, will then have very little time to certify all the 17 Bills.

Whereas if we do the committees, let us say starting tomorrow, and we finish them, some of them are simple, I do not think there are too many amendments, except the one you have mentioned Honourable Member.
I hope those amendments on the first Bill which was tabled the Honourable Serame, I hope they will be out by now.

Otherwise we will have to change around and deal with those Bills where virtually there are no amendments of any consequence, they can be dealt with on the floor.

So, the urgency on this Bill as far as I understand, remains.
My interest is that I want the Clerk to be able to deal with the 16 Bills after committee, having enough time before we finish with this, being the 17th Bill which I suspect will take some time probably up to Thursday.

At this stage, we will not have enough time for her to satisfy.

The other question, le nna ke bua thata, o ne o reng Leader of the Opposition (LOO).

HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are debating Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: No, I am not debating.


MR SALESHANDO: Mr Speaker, the other question ke gore re tlaa fiwa nako e kae go lebelela the proposed amendments.

Fa e le gore go na le Bills tse di senang amendment Mr Speaker, I will just humbly propose to you gore gongwe e nne tsone di tsenang kamoso, and then starting Wednesday, ke gone re bo re tsena mo go tse di nang le amendments, assuming we can be given the amendment by tomorrow.

Otherwise it will be untidy to see the amendments on the day they are discussed.
MR SPEAKER: Exactly my thinking LOO.

That is what I was saying that there are a number of Bills which you have just debated.

Even from what you said, I do not think there will be too many amendments, they can be done straight on the floor, and we will rather start with those.

Tse di ntsi I agree with you, it would be unfair to bring 10 amendments and say ke tseo, a re tsweleleng batho ba sa di bona.

We want to do justice to these laws, you can only do that when we you have time to reflect.
So, I totally agree with you Honourable Saleshando.

Honourable Kekgonegile, I am not debating, I am trying to explain.

Maybe in my background I am used to arguing, you will excuse me.

Question put and agreed to.

MR SPEAKER: As I have indicated in replying to Honourable Saleshando, we have not seen any amendment hitherto.

That means that we should really end the siting at this point, although we still have some 10 minutes.
So, I shall call upon the Leader of the House, Your Honour the Vice President to move a Motion of adjournment.

MOTION ADJOURNMENT LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, mo nakong e ke tle ke kope Palamente gore e phatlalale, batlotlegi ba ye go bona amendments.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.
The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 6:53 p.m. until Tuesday 1st February, 2022 at 11:00 a.m. 45 Hansard No 204BUSINESS MOTIONMonday 31st January, 2022 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B.
B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae 46 Hansard No 204