Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1694838622763.pdf (Guyana)
l5D Members l'nisent LEGISLATIVE CouxcIL Hospitol Fees Reg.

160 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL .ANNOUNCE::VIENT THURSDAY, 20TH JUNE, 1946.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Mr. HOSPITAL FEES REGULATIONS Parkinson) message:- communicated the followin.

� The Council met at 2 p.m., His Ex­ the the Officer Administering Mr. W. L. Heape, C.M.G., cellency Government, President, in the Chair.

PRESENT The President, Officer Administering Mr. W .

L. Heape, C.M.G.

His Excellency the Government, th'" The Hon.

the Colonial D.J.
the Colonial D.J.

Parkinson (acting).

Secretary, Mr. 2.

The question The Hon.

the Attorney-General, Mr. F.W.

Holder.

MESSAGE No.

3 Honourable Council, Members of the Legislative The C ouncil is invitl'd to approve the '' Fees Regulations amending of the Hospital f-;' j so as to give effect to t11e decisions of the Whitley Council with regard to Public Officers and Government the Permanent the Colony paying fees on a dmission hospital.
Employees on of to Salary Establishment was raised by the in 1937 and Civil Service Association again in 1939, when concessions covering a wider field were sought entailing, inter alia, free treatment of for certain classes employees.

3.
3.

The matter was however left in was not the to grant the concessions, abeyance until 1943 wh�n the Association requested that if Government prepared matter be referred which, as Members are aware, comprises an Official and Staff Side; the Official Side consisting of Heads of Departments appointed Side of representatives of the Civil Servic� Association.

to the Whitley Council by the Governor and the Staff had originally 4.
It should be explained that tlle been a one indeed, asking for free treatment for all Public Association's request very sweeping example, Officers and Government Employees receiving less than MO a month.
In Whitley Council however the Staff Side their requests mod,ified by asking for agreement on the concession of reduced fees only as a number and Government in receipt treatment between the reached and the question is now before to give effect to the Whitley this Council Council's Employees either of free treatment at reduced rates.

Official and Staff Sides was were already or of Agreement l1f Public Officer:1 decisions.

The Hon.

the Colonial Treasurer , Mr. W.o.

Fraser (acting).

The Hon.


E. G. Wao!ford, K.C.

O.B.E., (New Amsterdam).

The Hon.

J. I. de Aguiar (Central Demerara).

The Hon.

H. N. Critchlow (Nomin­ ated).

The Hon.

J.

B. Singh, O.B.E.

(Dem­ erara-Essequibo).

The Hon.

Peer Bacclrns (Western Ber­ bice).

The Hon.

c. R. Jaccb (North Western District).

The Hon.

J. W. Jackson, O.B.E., (Nominated).

The Hon.

A. M. Edun (Nominated).

The Hon.

V. Roth <Nominated).

The Hon.

T. T. Thompson (Nomin­ ated).

The Hon.

W. J. Raatgever (Nomi­ nated).


The Clerk read prayers.

5.

The implementation of these will mean that Public Officers decisions and Government Employees receiving in-patient treatment any Government will be charged for such treatment reduced rates as follows:- hospital in the Colony in certain wards of at Minutes of the me�ting of the Coun­ cil held on the 14th June, 1946, as printed and circulated, (lont)rmecl.
were taken as read and ' $2.00 per diem Ward .... $1.20 per diem $1.50 ,, $ .50 ,, .96 ,, .32 ,, 161 Quanrnfinc 20 ,Ju::rn, 19-!G.

Bill · 162 provides and similar is proposed to quarantine in the rate 6.It was also a decision of the I desire to point out for the informa­ "An Ordinance relating matters."

No reduction in the case of the Lady Thompson Ward us it is consictered that tha.t Ward tion of hon.
Members that the objects are luxury treatment and any Officer or to carry into effect, Employee desiring accommodation there Sanitary !

should pay the full rate.

the 21st June, 1926, (as amended by the International Sanitary Convention, to which this Colony acceded on the 20th December, 1929.
The Rill is also intended to carry into effect, (b \ the 'International Sanitary signed at The Hague on the 12th April, 1933, (as amended by the International Sanitary 1944), to which this Colony acceded on the 1st Whitley Council that these concessions should not be extended families where such concessions force they should be discrmtinued.

if approved � Council will affect the.

rights of Officers ·;,::B' and Employees provision m the Service for the preservation ' .
rights has been made ,n the amending and that are already in (al the International for Aerial Navigation, ··f· 7.

These changes, of Officers or Employees for Aerial Navigation and of these Re,ulations.

signed at Paris on Convention Convention Convention to the wives and already August, 1944), 1935. by th.is W.L.

HEAPE, Officer Administering the Government.

GOVERNMENT HOUSE.

British Guiana, 12th June, 1946.


PAPER LAID The ,COLONIAL TREASURER (Mr. Fraser) laid on the tablr the following:- The Schedule for May-June, of Additional 1946.

Provision OFFICIAL KOTICES HosPLTAI, FEES RmULATro:--:s The COLONIAL SECRETARY gave notice of the following motion:- to the Officer the Government's "That, with reference Administering Message Na 3 dated the J<>t1J of JJJ'JC 1946, this Council approves of th� Hospital Fees (Amendment) Regula·­ tions, 1946."
SuPPLE:lrnXTARY EsTnrATES Iv!AY-JLTi\'E, 1!)4G.
Further, it will carry into effect, (c) West Indian Conference in the Report, in the British held in Trinidad 1943, in which the adoption n, on the basis of a Bill and Regulations the Report of the British Quarantine in November, of uniform legislatio draf� Quarantine contained West Indies and British Guiana was recommended; (d) the Report of the West Indian Conference held in Barbados in March in 1944 in which there was recom­ mended the adoption administrations uniform legislation prepared subject ho\vever, that, with reference to the definition "immune" in the Fimt and Second Schedules Regt1lation:s and the Regulations respectively!
Quarantine Bill, the a yellow-fever inoculation should be four, instead (Maritime) Qc1arantine Uiir) by the Quanmtine Convention (the Quarantine by all the British in the Caribbean basect on the model pP.riod of validity of of three, years.

certificate to the model area of of to the recommendation The COLONIAL TREASURER gave The existing Quarantine Ordinance, notice of the followin1s motion:- "That, this Council approves Schedule May-June, on the table."
of Additioaal 1946, which has been laid of the for Provision ORDER OF THE DAY QUAR.AXTINE HILL The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: of this Bill moving the second reading intituled In to either to which I have already Chapter 99, was enacted in 1928, that is to say, before the Colony acceded of the Conventions referred.

· I should also inform hon.

Members that the· Ordinances to' imple­ ment the recommendations of the Conferences to which I have referred hav� been passed in Trinidad and Tobago, the If hon.
Leeward Islands Members will turn to the Bill itself will see that it consists In �l�WJe 1 it is providrd and Dominica.

that the Ordin- they of 12 clauses.

163 Quarcinh11e LEGISLATIVE C'ouNc1L Bill .161 .

ap­ Under clause 3 ( 1) the Quarantine in the Colony will be the Director who will control and the Visit­ ance "shall come into force on such a date may by proclamation as the Governor point."
Authority of Medical Services direct the Health Officers ing Officers visions of clause 4 Regulat:ions Governor in Council, that they are subject confirmation Clause 4 (3) reads :- to amendment by the L�gislative will be made by the but I would emphasize who are to enforce the Quarant.ine a·nd Council.

laws.

Under the pro­ and will have power to vary or rescind any such emergency Order.
In clause 7, provision is made for the Or - for offences mad_e there­ is under clause 8 provision punishment against dinance or the Regulations under, while made for the payment of rewards to in­ formers.

Clause 9 deals with the duty and power of the Police, with the disposal and expenses Authority far as the Bill itself .

Jaw certain by the Quarantine for ships and so on.

That is 50 · :� · · then fol-... , .

is concerned; and n,covery of and clause 10 deals schedules.
incurred charges " ( 3) Regulations made under shall not (1) of this section subsection have any force or effect until con­ firmed by resolution tive Council.

In confirming any Regulations, may make any amendments tl:i,ereto which it may deem desirable."

the Legislative of the Legisla­ Council Then, Clause 4 (4) st.>ttes :- " ( 4) The Regulations contained in the First and Second Schedules hereto shall be deemed to have been made and confirmed visions of this section."
under the pro­ Clause 5 empowers the Quarantine by the Governor Authority of Medical Ser-· - the Director vices-to make Rules which will have to be apprcved before they take effect.

As will be seen, these Rules will implement tions made under clause 4 and must not be in conflict the Regula­ with them.

in Council Clause 6 provides for the making of emergency Authority, Orders by the Quarantine Clause 6 (1) reads :- The First Schedule, as hon.
Members will see, has been made under clause -1 which states in subclause Cl) that: " ( 1) The GoYernor in Council of may make Regula tir.ns, in respect the whole or any pmt of the Colony, including thereof, the ports and coastal for preventing- waters (a)dang·er ships or aircraft arriving therein, to public health from or persons .or thing·s at any plaoe; and (b)the spread of infection by means of any ship or a.ircraft about to leave any place, or by means of any person or thing about to leave any place in any ship ,)l' aircraft."
Sub-clause (4) reads :- "(4) The Regulations contained in the First ancl Second Schedules hereto shall be deemed to have made and confirmed visions of this section."

under the pro­ been The First Schedule relates to thP.
speci:ctl the Quarantine of the emergency "(1) When in the opinion Quarantine Authority an exists, Authority may to be by Order direct measures taken during the crmtinuance of that er..iergency for specified this Ordinance, shall have thing to the contrary in any Regula­ tions or Rules in force by v.irtue those sections."

in sections effect any of the purposes four and five of and any such Order notwithstanding any­ Regulations which of shipping, and into 11 parts.
Part I, which is Quarantine (Maritime) will cover the question is divided introductory while of definitio�s Part II deals with "Ships arriving from port" is a port Foreign Ports."

A "forr,ign or place situated e than in this elsewher Colony.

deals with the interpretation in the Regulations, Part III deals with provisions of It will be appreciated that such a in view of the fact power is very necessary that unforeseen denly arise attention and action.
under clause 6 (2J, tlm.t the Governor might sud­ circumstances immediate It is also provided, and might require and the procedure ships in quarantine be adopted by the Quarantine in such cases.

In this rC'spect, 13 states:- as to to Authority Regulatioi1 "13.

In relation diseases, in­ which the measures fectious may be taken and the circumstances to specified 165 Quarantine 20 Jmrn, 1946.
Bill 166 were part of these Regulations: in which they may be taken shall be such as are specified in Articles 24 to 27 (both inclusive) R.nd Articles 29 to 42 (both-inclusive) :)f the Convention, and for that purpose these Regulations shall have effect as though those Ar­ ticles Provided ticles or the port authorities authority ment, and so forth, shall be construed as though they were references Quarantine Officers referred, while on page 18 there is Schedule "A, setting out the form of a Maritime Declaration of Health, Regulation Schedule B which appe".rs what is v.rovided and deals with "Wireless of Information."
Schedule C deals with 1.he "Use or Flags and Signals", while Schedule under Regulation and the form of the certificate.

D deals with "Bill of Health" 18, showing the purpose that references to the port sanitary Authm·ity, or an authorised authority or the sanitary of the port or the Govern­ for under Regulation on page 20 gives officer."

the Health in those Ar­ t1nder to the 4.

5 Messages-Item Regulation As regards the meaning of "Con·- vention", if 11011.
Members refer to the Interpretation 2, they will see that it means "the International Sanitary Section Convention June, 1926, (as amend.Pd by the Inter­ national Convention, 1944) of which relevant extracts are set forth in the Appendix hereto."

signed at Paris on the 21st of Sanitary Part IV deals wit!1 the provisions and from the carried by and Part VIJ with.

to ships de!1Drting and if hon.

Members while Part V deals with "Miscel­ provisions as to ships arriving· relating Colony, laneous in port."
Part VI deals with the "dera­ tisation of ships", "merchandise and baggag·e'' ships.

Part VIII refers to "observation and surveillance" look once again at t':le Interpretation reg·ulation they will see that "observa­ tion" means "the detention under medical supervision for such periods a Health Officer.''

while "survelllance means "that persons are not detained, that they may move about freely, they are required examination such period and to such nersons dir.ected by a Health Officer."
in such places and as may be directed by " to r"port for medical at such intervals of persons and during but that as may be Article Articles to various Then follows the Appendix 29 deals with Cholera.

On Sanitary IV deals with the measures Convention, to plagues, 35 and there are relevant with advice in such cases.

Then on page 24 which is an "extract from the Inter­ national Sanita1·y Convention signed at Paris on the 21st June.

1926, as amended by the International 1944."


be taken in relation and while Section IV (A) deals with Plag·ue, page 28 Yellow Fever is dealt with under Article dealing there is Article followed out the Quarantine This Schedule parts and Regulation tions and the interpretations be applied (Air) Regulations deals with the Movements Part III with General Sanitary Provisions, setting in Regulation of specified recorded" tion (I!)
states 7 and de�.ling infectious in Regulation with Smallpox, which sets 1946 42 dealing by the Second Schedule (Air) Regulations.

into various are concerned.

Part II and with "Details to be diseases 8.

This Regula­ to them so far as the Quarantii1e out the Duties M the Commander is sub-divided 2 deals with defini­ of Aircraft, which have to "8.
When any specified infectious details makes its �ppearance in any the Health Officer shall enter all officer in the papers of all disease part of the Colony, or an authorised necessary aircraft leaving the period of fifteen date on which information specified ceived."

days from the of such was re­ disease the aerodrome infectious during Part IX deals with the Duties of the ap­ '�/hi.le Authority, provisions Part XI and charges."
Quarantine Part X deals with Charges for sanitary measures plied and also makes "farther as to expenses deals with miscellaneous ing a "general instructions "certificates taken".

At page 24 h·m.

Members will see the appendix measures typhus and smallpox," matters, includ­ relates to "Special sanitary measures the case of yellow fever."
Part VI sets out the duties of the QmJrantine Authorit.y who, as I have already pointed out, is the Director of charges for sanitary duty to comply with orders, as well as measures Part IV deals with "Special in the case Qf plague, and condit,ions," as to sanitary sanitary cholera, tq wr..ich I have already The question Services.
of Medical measures while Part V applied in 167 Q1rnrnntine LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Bill 163 such legislation aircra.ft on page 41 relating Part C with typhus fever, to be can-led out in respect or an aircraft Area."

Part A Part B plague, is dealt with under P<trt VII, while Part VIII deals with "MiscP.lianeous."

Then to there is a schedule the "Measures of an infected coming from an infect':"d of the Schedule deals with with cholera, and Part D with Smallpox.

Articles is an Appendix 18, and 36.

Hon.


Members have before which them a typed copy of an amendment 36.

It Article to move as regards I propose is a long one and it was taken from the terms of the Convention.

Then, at the end, I wish to will include the Regulations the terms of the Convention.

make an amendment three matters which refer to made by this Colony under which contains Then there which 8, I have tried to explain the points Com­ t!
'o.aC to air traffic with respect by the Conference Chapter 99, no wireless in order to bring our local to this Bill ar:d I am sure hon.

into line with modern quaran­ Quaran­ Under tl:e existing relating Members will realise is necessary legislation tine practice.

tine Ordinance, communication for as it was intended is provided for sea traffic.

I may mention that Trinidad has passed an Ordinance based on the Col­ model approved onies in that year, and that before the U. N. N. R. A.
Rehabilitation mittee had reported Trinidad had passed their Ordinance.

As I havf!

already stated, to in the Bill were submitted :rnd British West Indian Colonies and we acceded to them.

Now, we are seeking to the Conventions, pears to me to be a reservation this Colony in connectir,n ventions.

hon.
hon.

Members a longer snrvey of this mat .. think it is ter than is usual, bec'.l.use I that they sho1!ld desirable to follow the Bill-those -and understand and the various annexures to what ap­ made by with the Con­ I have endeavoured to carry into effect our adherence subject the various Schedule!

', be in a position who have read iG to the Bill.


as well as any to give Regulations As I have stated, the Bill con­ tains only 12 clauses, these other provisions but there are all added to them for the of carrying into effect to, so as to bring· purpose been agreed into line with modern ))ractice quarantine the Bill be now read a second time.

all that has our practice matters.

I beg to move that tu relating for some further from the Attorney-General.

signed by :r,r.etropo and I should Hke to know, M�-.
in taking this The PRESIDENT: Before I ask Members to speak on the principle of the Bill, I would be grateful information This Bill is unusual in that we are being to be asked to approve of wl:at appears litan Gov­ Conventions ernments Attorney-General, whet!ier Bill through Council appears words, what' extracts contains signed by Metropolitan they have been put in this Bill for it seems and guidance-but convenience to me unusual of British approve of them .
from a ConventiOi1 Governments - that the Legislative Council Guiana should be asked to to approve of tl:e Appendix which from page 24 to the end.

In other should we do about it?

It this Council I should ask th� The ATTORNEY -GENERAL : That should be done, Your Excellency.

After all, hon.

Members have the right to express fully their of the Bill.

views on t�e various aspects The PRESIDENT: Granted; we can very well but I do go beyond not see how the Conventions.
The PRESIDENT: You are asking the fo"· instance, Legislative Council, to of Article 36. consent to the insertion the Article The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: But we we are are not amending anything; Hon.

for a purpose.

inserting Members, I think, have a right to say in ns:.
"We to these two Conventio relation but we arc are not amending anyLhing, this Govern­ putting ment has said that it is making to these two reservations particular this Government Conveptions in acceding says; "We are accedinir in relaticn Conventions."

to the to in somtthing because In other words, certain the Co•wentions referred to the Guiana The ATTORNEY-GE.NERAL: We are to them; the Bill is really not amending carry them into effect.

169 Q 1rnra.11f ine 20 JUNE, 194:6.


Bill 170 Bureau, shall de.n.ne the boundaries Endemic Yellow Fever areas."

of but y•ith a particular these Conventions.

reservation concerned.

your Conventions we have reserved."

so far as one aspect of them is Therefore, you must alter in m·der to show what The PRESIDENT: argue with the hon.

the Attorney-General.

This Council approved in the Bill of the Conven�'ons.

of the incorporation We cannot ·a.rgue about that.


I do not know whether that definitio:1 British I do not want to Guiana, is a Yellow inclu:lrs ·3uiana but that on the principla of the boundaries whether or not British Fever area, but to my m:nd I now find it on is so, as whoever has to n:avel abroad a plane will have to be inoculated.

I thought we were immuned from Yellow Fever, so much work in tha;t d:irection having been done in this Colony, is not so.
I am speaki;1J of this measure, It has to be revised Bill is, perhaps, But I want to make this to !mow beforehand committed we should not buy pork in the bag anymore.

We must know beforelund the interests to do in order to protect the people in this Colony.

With these fe,r,· observations is.

an opportunity of the Bill.

but I am not against it.

in any case, and this before us for so doinr,.

The PRESIDENT: Does _any oth<:n' to.

The tir.1e has come I must sU)'Jport point.


We ought 'Vhat we will be what we have the Bill as 1t wants- when of Mr. de AGUIAR: On a point '.lf I must say that I agree with °y-General.

This principle!

the hon.

the Atton11 has the right to accept or reject, Council tf,e fact that the matter has been despite threshed out and certain agreement'3 , made.

If this Council The PRESIDENT: We have to decide these things whether we would incorporate in our legislation.
we must be guided by the advice of the Attorney­ General.

a very full explanation, speak on the principle Hon.

Membern have now, after Ho,vever, io I have found that ratification Mr. EDUN: Sir, in my experience in of doe3 against being in other parts conventions convention.

at first until one butts up when they wanted to travel to this Council of these international appear harmless against it when travell',ng of the world.
I can remember citizens this country complaining inoculated Air Base, �nd it w:as after.

the American wards told to them that tt was the resalL of an international manner many other such and a were ratified by this Council, continuation of such ratifications ceeded until t.his country found itself within the vortex of giving away extra­ territorial nation.

It appears we are helpless tional affairs, go along like this in all the years to come.
We ought being asked this case paragraph I have found in Article 36, 3 which reads thus: in these interna.

but I do not think it should to commit ourselves to know beforehand rights to a f(•reign what we are In like to.

In pro­ conventions on the principle hon.

Member wish to spe'.l;c of the Bill?

Otherwise the Attorney-General Council Bill clause go into Committee by clause.

I will ask the hon.

to move that the the to consider Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read a second ti:ne.


The Council resolved to consider itself into the Bill clause by Committee clause.

COUNCIL IN COMMITTEE Clause 4-Power to make Regulations.

The CHAIRMAN: It is interesting.

This particular clause from any I have seen.

It provides that the Regulations until this Council shall not come into force confirms them.

is slightly different We are The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: ratification by the Council no\\', getting but any amendments wm have to come before this Council.
"For the purpose of quarantine control, UNRRA in consultation the Governments regards the the combined American Sanitary concerned Western Hemisphere, with and, as with The CHAIRMAN: .

!n taking these Schedules which are ver.v long I think it SCHEDUT.,ES 171 Q-uarant ·ine LEGISLATIVE Cou'.\'clL Bill 172 would be convenient by page.

I would do so if that suits Members.

if I take them page APPEN.nIX The CHAIRMAN: I ;i.ssume from what.

has said, the hon.

the Attorney-General this in the Bill.


we have to include First Schedule.

The CHAIRMAN: What does "foyer", The ATTORNEY--GENERAL: Yes, mentioned mean?

clause sir.

in the Interpretation Part IV-SPECIAL SANITARY MEASUflES The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: it refers to the focal point so far as the fever is concerned.

I think The CHAIRMAN: Let us amend it t0 I think you should give.

the of "foyer".

"!ever".

definition Mr. JACOB: I see "foyer" appears in two places.
The CHAIRMAN: I do not think it really means "foyer" in paragraph but in (c) it clearly me':<ns fever.

.

(b).

Mr. JACOB: I do not know about (bi.

not be The CHAIRMAN: Should it fever all through?

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: No, sir.

Regulation departing from infected 19-Scl;edule areas.

aircraft .Hon.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Members have before them a list of amendments.

in the first line of sub-paragraph for the word "no".

substituted I move tl1at the word "on" (f) • be Question put, and agreed to.
Part V-SPECI.lfL SANITARY MEASURES IN TIIE CASE OF YELLOW FEVER Regulation 24-Measures on arrival from an aerodrome situcited of in mi aircraft endemic area.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I mov� of the following words (1) ·, the insertion between the words "s'..tb-regulation and "the" in the first line:- The CHAIRMAN: The hon.

the is of the opinion that Attorney-General the case of "yellow fever, but where it apppars elsewhere means "foyer".
foyer" it should be it m The word "fever" was substituted 2 paragraph in Regt;lation for the word "foyer" (c).

Schedule D-Bill of Health.

The CHAIRMAN: This is an impor­ There is no Member who is engaged m shipping.

tant schedule.

present Schedule E-Deratisation Certificate.


(2) of Article "endemic area" by notice published in the to have bF!en defined as an any area which is from time "the expression includes to time declared by the Quarantine Authority, Gazette, with endemic area in accordance paragraph 36 of the International for Aerial Navigation substituted International 1944, and the for Aerial Navigation Quarantine may, by a like notice, cancel or vary any such declaration.
published 1933 as by Article 11 of the Until 3 cleclaration is !ary Convention Authority Sar.i- Sanitary Conventio;.

under this sub-regulation."

The ATTORNEY-Gr.

:NERAL: I move in column 8 be that the word "poison'' amended to read "poisons".

It is a error.

typographical Question put, and agreed to.

The word "of" beLween the words "case" and "any" in F,1ot Note (b) was also deleted.
Authority with the Medical if not as conditions is to The object of this amendment amount of elasticity to the give a certain Quarantine Service, change so far as control concerned, of this amendment Service change as enacted by U.N.N.R.A.

result of experience The object is to give the Medical in a place of these areas the power to make any necessary a difficulty may arise.

as a is and communication.

173 Q twrantine 20 JuxE, 19-!G.

Bill 174 Question put, and ::>.greed to.


Article 36. aegypti)" the said Article."

in the second paragraph of The ATTORNEY.-GENERAL: It is 36 which appears desirable to insert Article among the list of amendments circulated to hon.

Members.

As Your Excellencv 'has declared, the Artich is a relevant ex­ tract and is taken from UNNRA comm uni­ cation to us.

I beg to move that Article 36 as printed be now insrrted after Article 18.

Question put, and agreed io.

Article 47 ..


In other words, we will do our best, as far as lies in our power, to exercise control and complian,:;e vention.
Note 3 reads: with the Con­ "Article 47 of t,he · International Convention Sanitary for Aerial Naviga­ tion, 1933, as amended by the Inter­ national Sanitary Convention for Aerial Navigation, 1944, has effect, in relation to this Colony, as if there were inserted therein that aero­ dromes in the non-endemic areas of the Colony shall not necessarily comply with the requirements of the said Article."

a provision The ATTORNEY-GF.NERAL: I beg 47 after 38.
That is taken from the Inter·­ to move the insertion Article national been circulated to Members.

Sanitary Convention.

of Article It has That is in Tegard to screening.

have so far as this Colnny is concerned made that reservation.

reservations, Notes be inserted.

Those are three and I ask that these three We Question put, and agreed to.

Notes.

The ATTORNEY -GENERAL: There and those are reservations are three Notes in relation ventions by this Colony.
They have to be in· serted in some part of the law.

Note 1. reads: to these Con­ mad·� The CHAIRMAN: The question that Regulations the Attorney-General, Bill.

ill 1 to 12, as explained by te included in the Motio.n put and agreed to.

The CHAIRMAN: I think the At­ torney-General Committee.
wants to leave the Bill in of Article 38 Sanitary Con­ for Aerial Navigation, 1933, as Sani­ "The requirements of the International vent!on amended by the International tary Convention for Aerial Naviga­ tion, 1944, will be complied with by this Colony only 8<-' f.ai:-<i:, may be possible."

The reservation is tbat we will comply preclu,le prevailing· 38 only so far as we can do �10 words, the con­ us from saying with Article in this Colony.
In othe1· ditions we are going all out in support of this particular we should mal{e a. reservr:ttion Therefore the purpose.

and it is proper thr,t such as thi�.

this Note is being inserted Note 2 reads: Article, for the Bill in and to the International concerned The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I will ask hon.

Members to leave Committee so that it can be sent to the Seer�f State, having nigard to it,; functions ventions Wfl,YS changed.
We are adopting far as we know, but it is just possible that there may be a desire to effect a change as regards If there are no comments, when we come back we can agree to the Bill as already proved.

Con­ because they are al­ them so other matters.

certain ap­ The CHAIRMAN: My inclination is to finish the Bill now, but the Attormiy General advises that we postpone it.

The ATTORNEY -GENERAL: I clo not think there will be a long delay.
"Article 40 of the International 1926, as amended Convention, 1944, has effect, Sanitary by the IntErnationf\l Sanitary Con­ vention, t.o this Colony, as if the words "as far as possible" between the words "render and n1aintain" and the words "free from Steg·omyia were inserted in relation (Aedes Council resumed.

175 Hospital Fees LEGISLATIYE C'ouxcrL ( A111dl.)


Rcgnlatinns 17G HosPITAL FEES (A!lrn:--;-n:r.rn�T) R.EGULATIOXS The PRESIDENT: vVith the per­ Mr. Laing, to suspend the Standing of Members, is 3 o'clock now-I Are in the debate.

I should ex­ of Local Government.

I would like to proceed mission with the next item on the Order Paper.

given has already The L, :1ial Secretary notice of this motion and if hon.
Mem­ bers would agree to suspPnd the Standing Rules and Orders-it would like to take it this afternoon.

of this motion hon.

Members in favour ?


I will ais-J being taken this afternoon ask for permission Rules and Orders to enable the Com· missioner t o intervene plain that Mr. Laing is the Chairman al' the Whitley Council and that he has a more intimate knowledge Fees Regulations which have resulted coming before this Co'.mcil, other Government bers may wish to debate this matter, Gov­ with your permsision, would like ernment, to have Mr. Laing here to answer any ques­ I propose tion that might be raiserl.
What should is that the Colonial formally your permissim1, continue the explanation.

I wou�cl ask Mr. Laing to in those Regula.tions Secretary introduce the motio!l officer.

As hon.

Mem­ and, with thaa any of the Hospital a.!l of medicril for setti::ig Government facilities Government bargair,Jng, and emp1oyees, that may arlsc between and hls emplo�'ees.
as to how this motion came to between Government the u:·riency for conciliation and for col­ and f.:r the adjustment" formation be placed before tllis Council.

Having regard to the relationship employers thought it wise to stress the need fo:c by em­ the Pl"ovision for their eruploy('es.

ployers has also stressed up machinery lective of gi"ievances employer does not want to lag bel1iad ters, since Government in the Colony.
In 1932, Gov, employers some ernment placed before tl:is Council which gave to certain em­ Reg·ulations ployees outdoor special t'""'�,m,ut.

conciliation been set up, but there is anothel' forrc1 machinery to that machinery very successfully grievances between employees.

of Government at hospitals treatment rights in coane:::tion G0vernrn2nc·s and collect-ive whlch is now workin::i­ i:1 the.
adjustment in these mat­ is one of the largest machinery bargaining and certain with indo8r which corresponds fo:­ has of the right to fre::e Government very clos3ly and its of and of the deliberations The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I rise motion standing to move the following my na.me, but before !1oing-so formally would like Mr. Laing to address the Council:- in I to the Of­ "That, with refer�nce ficer Administerine: Message No.

3 dateri 1946, this Council approves Fees (Amendment) Hospital tions, 1946."
the Government'., t.he 12th of June, of th,� Regula­ This machinery is known as is wl1fl.t on the CouncH which consists by the Civil Service is representecl cho,<;:cn \Jy tl".e the Governm�nt the Whitley one side of senior officiA.ls Govern9r to represent and.

on the othm· side, the Estab1ishe,l Service whose aims associctt.ion As3ociation--an of con-­ are devoted to the imp:ovement and terms of appointment in the clitions employees are Service.

by their Trade Unions.


Gov­ represented ernment has, perhap.�.

Iagg-ed somewh::.t behind in this question for its <:'mployces Government for certain employees, of Govern­ not embrace all the em!

")loyees ment.

facilitif?s in 1932 �cdical facilities �hesc facilities of medical and although The subordinate proviciecl did The PRESIDENT: With the per­ I would invite Mr. mission Laing to inform hon.

Members of the object and meaning of these of the Council, Regulations.

Mr. M. B.

LA'ING, C.M.G., O.B.E.


of Locctl Government) : (Commissioner and l':!f:mbers; the pro­ Your Excellency, Council is posal before the Legisl3tive Message fully set out in Your Excellency's 3, of t'he 12th June, 1940. to Council-No.

Perhaps, I might usefuily add some in· a request The reason why Government lms is mainly becau�e behin-:1.

Associr-tion placed befm·e lagged somewhat the Civil Service Government for themselves which Government prove.

The matter W'.I'; referred Whitley.


Council cussion by that Council the Official fm· free treatment reques'G felt it could not a.p.

and fa,·nilies-a a ve1-y free di.s-­ and a'ft':'r to the and 177 Hospita.l Fees 20 JuxE, 19-!6.

(,Amdt.)

Regnlations 178 em­ to certain facilities of the Whitley by G0vernment It is now open fm· officers discussion.

set up for the Civil Service Mr. ROTH: I should like to con­ tbe Staff sides agreed that reduced fees Mr. Critchlow.
might be payable as a whole and that these medical should not be restricted ployees only.

There is one difference be-tween the machinery Council machinery that is, in the Civil Service the independence therefore a.ny agreemePt Official before the Governor and this Legislativ·� Assembly, and this Council have the right of veto where money is involved.

reached by the and the Staff sides must come and the industry and we do not have gTatulate forward this very timelv motion.
I can say that during the 28 years I �r �'lt :n the Civil gTicvances free medical attention The amount of money I paid for medical attention would have endowed several annuities.

I most heartily endorse this motion.

Mr. JACKSON: I think this motion is Service, was that certain Government for bringing one of my :;reatest and both the Governor set up in private while I did not.

of tho private employer, officers got The PRESIDENT: where money is involved.

It is not only Mr. LAING: Yes.


The Governor body of medical reached in of the bigger in order that they his right to veto the make for increased to say that employers who wcnld attend more Similarly, it is in this amend­ has not exercised request that is now befm·e this Council­ for approval of the agrPement the Whitley Council.

I think it is also fitting class have been asked to provide facilities for employees, would have a more tfficient workers-people regularly to their dutiP.':.
felt that the Regulations ment would In the Service tendance.

course be given priority treatment v•itl:J. citizens :;, s a wbole I b ave �aid that this Council motion, bers not to do so.

Veto of the motion would, I feel.

shake the foundation of the confidence in the Government Council.

I therefore to the favourable Council.


effieiency at­ Civil Servants will not of in regard to and in the Whitley commend the motion consideration of tl1!s that has been established and they will take their place but I would appeal to hon.

Mem.

and reduce irregular has a right to veto this hospital of "Public that teachers and I wouJd like to know are mclucled in tha a matter of fact, I will until I am told but I should as regards 5 of the Re�ulations.
I want Officers" one that should be supported, like to have an explanation paragraph to hear the definition as against that 0f "Government employees", whether teachers latter term.

As always take up this position fefinitely are Government employees.
Every cent of the money that is paid to them comes from Government and \Vhile it is true that there is dual control-a very good thing indeed-I not thinl, that , Government its duty to a body of me11 and women who are serving faithfully in the interest Government and the Colony as a whole.

Therefore, I should like to know whethe.

they are included in the term "Public Officers" or in the t<orm "Government employees."
can neglect o:f do Mr. EDUN: I am rca.lly a.t a loss to early next year·-­ from a principle.

feels that with the return of we would be As it goes.

know why there should be this hurry L,J bring forward this -very impm·tant measure in which, somehow, deviating Govenunent a new Council-perhaps there would be no chance for a measure of this kind, and therefore the lead at this junct11re.

There is no doubt about it that I, in my capacity a;, a Trade Union leader.
cannot oppose this motion because I exper.t that employees -ordinary would receive the Commissioner made .reference to employees medical attention from employers, .he forgot to tell this Council that those receiving perhaps of LQcal Government the same benefits.

When of Government­ employees it has taken The COLONIAL SF:f;RETARY: I now beg to move the motion standing in my name.

Mr. CRITCHLOW s,:,conded.

The PRESIDENT: The motion has moved :md it has been been: formally seconded by the hon.
Nominated Member, 179 Hospital Fees LEGISLATIVE Cc,uxcrL (Amell.)

Regnla.tions 180 facilities".

Tha.t by there.


and that the and things like have reached th2 themselves These employers are now being re-examined on the part of the employers­ on the sugar plantations-is ,,) facilities the employers tendency especially do away with the hospih1.ls ment Officers all s01·ts of monetary passages facilities-leave that--and we would lil<t> to know how much it would be worth to them if we reduce their hospital cnarges from $2 to $1.50 per day.
As a matter of fact, I to sa:r would have expected Government "give them free medicf11 would have been going 100 per cent.

m the matter and perhaps the sugar estate proprietors tliink Government hospitals provide better medical facilities employees".

Knowing the situation do, it would be irksome for me to vote for this measure becam:e come when this quescion facilities for the resident� ought to be the respom1bility ment.
would have said "we do not would take over our for our as I oug·ht to be taken over by for tlieir employees.

If to say to continue As a matter o.f fact, it would be stage where they feel that the sugar estate hospitals Government, 1n order to relieve thG estates of the responsibility of providin;-o; medical facilities that is so, it would not IJe correct that they are expected service.

found on the sugar est'.ltes of medical facility members of the staff '.-lnd another the ordinary workers.
w·henevel· member of the staff is ill he gets medical attention at st. Jo,eph's perhaps at the Seamen's but in the case of the ordinary he receives in the e3tate an untenable to my mind.

that one kind for is being provided kind for hospital, kind of medical attention Hospital ward, P.H.G., worke1· I have of Medical times to attention of medical the time hus of Govern­ tha� or a any longer, rn we ought to in the villag.
:)s in the morning, a ve1·y exce11Pnt has detenorated want to h"<' relieved any longer for that to sueh an thinlc it best of the It to these hospitals.

for principle to their facilities on the estates extent that sugar worl,ers not to go to these hospitals and take quinine is all they !

!

"et whenever they go.


The reason for that is that the estate proprietors expense relating is certainly employers employees, estates ment has been, however, the estate proprietors organisations representing whereby the estate hm;pitals form to a certain ,tandard should ta.lrn Government mention that in order tlmt hon.

Members should know the posit�on reached between and certain the employees but in the case of the suga1· it is now the reverse.

to give medics] them over.


I An agree­ and thit should con­ fully.

I do not know when this matter woul<l of money-that but I am always being have monry and that tlrn could not hope to run as cheaply as the estates more than a thousand be taken up by Government.

pleaded with the Director Services come to a decision, told that it is a question the estates Medim1 Department the hospitals could run them.
I do .not agree with him, but in this case I am willing the measure being put forward; is going to be a condition as a trade unionist regret, at this juncture.

I ca:mot oppose it.

l however, to suppon since it of employment that I !
"lave to support it this Government Mr. CRITCHLOW: I rise to con­ gratulate for tabling motion and I hope the time is not far distant when we will Health Insurance health of the worker js a very important thing for the progress we g·et such a scheme I believe worker would give the ;Jest possible to his employer.

of a country.
of a country.

that every Scheme, because th� result If have a National The whole system of hospitalisation and Govern­ but I want to ask the I would be the last man to deny medi­ to Public Officers cal facilities ment employees, Colonial Secretary be the financial money it would involve.

things we should know before we commlt Just 1·ecently, ourselves.

to tell us what would mucl1 Those are implicntions-how we gave Gover,.1- sir.

The PRESIDENT.

: I hope the hon.


in asking Govern­ Mr. Ec,un is not serious ment for the cost of this scheme.

I give hi.

:i:1 that today.

cannot possibly Mr. EDUN: I am rnt pressing for it, 181 Hosvitc1l Fees 20 JUNE, ]9•16.

( ,lmdt.)

Regulations 182 Mr. JACOB: I intended to speak on of listening to one of the chief but I was hoping to have the of labour in this Colony on it this motion, privilege employers before I spoke.
Unfortunately, the representative Commerce in this Council Elected Members have refused to say anything.

of the Chamber uf and all the other however, Mr. de AGUIAR: Tc a point of order; there­ the debate is not yet comr,lEtecl and fore the hon.

Member cannot say.

th2y have refused to say anything.

Mr. JACOB: I took it that theh· - .�ense bB termed iu·e scl1ools in certain in denorni1n in the strict why te::ichers of the motion.

I tint this motion has quarters.


Member meant a,pprovai surprised funcls and sl1oulcl employees".

If that distinc­ those teachers do not but he wants to find out whether teachers in ce-:tain in the scheme.

One can under·· silence am a little found some opposition Perhaps the second N0.minated (Mr. Jackson) is not opposed to the motion, cei·ta.ia included stand, howe-,er, tional schools are nor termed "Publi::: of the term.
Officers" I fully agree with that method of reason­ ing, but these people are paid wholly from Government "Government tion is not (lrawn against in non-denominational schools, I see why it should be dr<twn against in Government ·being controlled by the Education I feel th[\t this motion has Department.

been delayed far too l0ng, for I have always felt that if it is desired that employees .
they should be properly should also be given certain facilities im:iuding free, and I medical atte11tion, tbinl� some of the larger firms have been doing this for quite a long time.

Ever in one form 01· since I was connected I knmv concerns, another that certain hospital expenses when they were convalescing expenses were paid-pr0� good employees.
had all theil' pair!., and sometimes should give really good service, with commerci�.l -aided schools 1icUng they were paid and they employees also their which are those ongly commend so that better does not like 100 per done so for quite a long time.

would be afl'orded to particularly those in It might not be but I 5t1 its propt",sJ.ls positions.

to pay all the emp1oyee3 has already Perhaps Government cent.
efficiency, it for revising medical facilities Civil Servants, resJJonsible possible Government time, but I shall be willing a proposition employers certainly Government private wages-except and I take this opportunity that Goverr,.1nent employees it desires far better sal�ries to get better service for the firms in regard to salaries does not pay as much as and men at the head­ are doing it, Government do lilrnwise.
shoulri E is also true thJ,t medical fees for at the present to support such and wages if from them.

at any time.

If privat:} should pay its of repeating I thin!� time teachers Your Excellency's The hon.

attached.

Mr. Edun, expressed were Government the reply to that, Sir, The hon.

ques­ I would Mr. LAING: Your Excellency, I am Member, Mr. Jackson, first lilce to say how very grateful for the support this motion has 1·eceived frcm Members of this Council.

Nominated tioned whether teachers employees.


an must be "No".

He may be visualizing extension those of this motion to include persons, but at the present are not included in Message or Regulations Nominated Member, the need of coming to some decisio:1 regm·d to hospital industry.

connected doubt that he and other Labour leaders are quite capable of seeing that matter through themselves.

Member, Mr. Critchlow, National Health Insurance.

that one day we in British financially kind.


That, of course, with this motion, is not strictly and I have no able to adopt a measure of that The hon.

Nominated treatment in the Sugar referred to I only hope Guiana will be in The PRESIDENT: I will put the question formally.

Question put, and agreed to.

Motion adopted.


It has been statcct J:>y the Commis­ sioner of Local GovernmPnt that Govern­ ment does not want tu lag behiad other in this respect, employers but I think it The PRESIDENT: With Members' permission, I would lilrn as there is still plenty of time Rules to suspend the Standing i-83 Sup:, Estimate.tECHSLATIVE COUNCIL -Governor 18!
Provision to Members, I can do so by purchasing Treasurer of gen to visit the Land Settlement there, ticket and on returning for May-June, 1946, to reimburse me.

But that is so cumber­ be approved."

some.

I consider on the cheap side.

I do not like it.

I wonder whether Government to eye with me on this question?
and Orders and ask the Colonial to move his motion "That the Schedule Additional as circulated If Members would like, however, the Schedule, time to consider me�t to-morrow question Attorney-General-a no other business.

now I would be able to adjourn Schedule sine die.

It is up to hon.-Members.

and apart from one over with the legal point-I have If Members take this The CHAIRMAN: I think the hon.
this question which I am talking that process further can see eye we would Scheme a railway is somewhat ask Government On a motion by Mr. de AGUIAR seconded Rules and Orders were suspended.

by Mr. WOOLFORD the Staniling SFPPLIDmx·rARY EsTnrA'l'E The Council resolved itself into the Schedule to consider P rovision cf 194G, for May-June, Committee Additional •:,hicll had been laid on the table.

GOVERNOR Item 3-Transport on official visits, $1,500.
j , quite recently If you give Members a then they can travel on all fares when travelling duties-meetings of Committees of the payment of expenses of Members was It was really the opinion of Members of the Executive Councli Member raised when the question travelling discussed.

Elected was that Members be that the intention on only paid their of this certain specified of which meetings Council, they are members and various other specific duties.

ticket seasonal occasions.


Department !the expenditure ·Government it seems a g·ood principle carry on as agreed at the last when it was discussed.

interpreting corrected, be abolished free service paid for their journeys for specific p urposes.

Perhaps that is a question which can be given some elasticity.
and Harbours The Transport has to get its revenue out in that direction, has to pay tbe Department that we should meeting decided that and Members be I think I am rights and may be but it was definitely Members' and if of of on this matter until Mr. EDUN: I want some clarification · state: laid stress an opinion from the Depart­ It has also been Mr. WOOLFORD: I nevet thought the Transport for all services on the for themselves of this Services had particularly tickets of seasonal of the Transport of this item.
The Remarks attached "Vote inadequate.

and Har-­ necessary to pay rendered hours Department this year."

I think Members of this Council provision in respect Colony.

It was a very convenient privilege for Members to receive ment a Card which was used from 1st January to the 31st December.

That convenience In my own case it was used in the interest of my public duties.

Government ancl instruct issue those tickets again?

It is a very big question Members of this Council.


I think, certain willing The matter in respect and Harbours convenien expressing it was raised by certain Nominated Members.

I have always drawn a distinc­ Members and· tion between Nominated ancl the distinction is Elected q�1ite legal and clear.
If a man offers to this Council, himself for election does so responsibilities one of which is, if he lives in the country and has to attend the Council meetings prima facie he intends that he should do Many years ago so at his own expense.

it had become and has remained the custom for Elected Members a small ticket, with these Passes, of transpol't.
them all the facilities afforded until That went on for very many years some period between one or two years ago when a Comm�ttee Department is a question ce.

If I want to go to Vergenoe� can reconsider or advise that Department remunerat10n The last time, was very much appreciated.

to serve but not to pay to serv�.


attaching to the position, and also that of Members said they were on his own volition of the Tn,.nsport I wonder whether to be provided this decision sat and came to a and incurs all Members, which to he of uf 185 Sup: Estimate 20 JUNE, ]9-:1:6.

-Governor 186 as I certP.in privileges by the Chair to speak.

of have been workin� from those members.


I especially and Harbours the registration of the attitude that the facility I sat on that Committee, Mr. JACOB: May I rise to a point of Mr. WOOLFORD: I ask for latitude would prefer the object Depart­ order!

Are we discussing of voters?

to the attendance of and of this Council I, personally, decision.

but I do 11ot think the view is right that we came to the decision should be limited Members at meetings at Committee meetings.
having come to that decision to let it remain at that, because of the Transport ment, whatever its policy may in the past, is to see that all possible revenue is collected who look forward to its successful and who can pay.

Prima facie it must be assumed that are Members of this Council in a position to pay far more than those on whom this new burden is imposed-if you put an egg in a basket or in your pocket ancl it is discovered freig"11t.

arisen in that way.
arisen in that way.

As Vice-chairman the Board I am denied a certain That is only what I have been told, and I do not believe to ask for it in view of the situation that months has arisen.

or not to go before we are either unseated re-elected and I do not think that many of us will get that concession.

I am not making an absolute I hazard about that, because from what may be have heard the General Election a very long time off indeed.
because I am speaking Members and prospective know I am very much out of order, but I must be allowed have been invited I think most of you have some idea as to e in question can be how this privileg sustained.

I do not know what the present Manager of the Transport and Harbours Department with the hon.

Member who has spoken.


It may occur that a Member is suddenly called upon to perform a public duty and has no time to get a pass; he therefore pays the fare and like myself wculd hesitate idea of supplying Members with vouchers to be filled in when used is one that is in practice I do not know there is any other way in which it can be done.

I think the greatest should be given Members in facilities travelling.

you have to pay have some difficulties of Mr. THOMPSON: I rise to support it is true.
I have hesitated to ask for a refund.

I think the has to say about it.

I agree We have not got many or renominated, else\rhere.

privilege.

I believe latitude for free The CHAIRMAN: Not on account of any delay by Government!

I am afraid, I activity and privileges, to apply unworthy motives io forms.

for 12,000 registration political is quite out of order, but I have taken this opportunity of saying to Members today what has been brought to my notice.
do not know who the prospective member is, but there is one who is canvassing and has applied I hesitate such a persun, Officers will give a large number of forms on should out like that then, I think, directi be given that some limitation be placed on that.

It may be that that is occwTing in Georgetown to the country, be able to get forms.

Maybe this person is distributing do not want people to do that and prevent the registration and the habit may spread and some people may not them all over the place.
We hoped for.

but if it be that Registering is not half as good as practical to go around the country as freely for this Council.

I say that if had not the With due respect the Governor that it should be made the prin,;-iple for Members to travel during the possible for the year so as to gain information benefit of this council.
been I think it has that Members can travel from accepted one part of the Colony to another, not for benefit but to get their own personal information necessary You wm agree with me that theoretica experience experience.

His Excellency privilege as he has done, I am satisfied have been able to handle the various problems ing the short time he has been here.

Mem­ bers are not expected what they think.


They must go around the country selves, be better placed in obtaining along progressive Council believe privilege around the country are honourable men, and I do not for one moment they will abuse the if they are given passes to go in the way he has done dur­ and see conditions lines.

Members of this for the benefit o!


this to come here to say and as a result he would not for them­ will this Government informatio;:i 187 Sup: Estimate LEGISLATIVE r.ouNCTL -Queen's College 183 of his own volition be paid his expenses?

and should not expect to to this Council.

to do so in order that I think it should be made possible to go around and see any works in connec­ Council.
for any Member, who desires the country tion with the country, he would be able to supply authoritative information not be denied that privilege.

awlcward and wait for a long time in order to get the money back.

I think we are entitled to something be made possible Council the country for Members of this the remote parts of for one to have to pay the fares He should It is very better than that.

It should as much as they can.

to get arouncl Mr. JACOB: I am not disputing that.

has been such a privilege.


So far it does not matter.

I only rai�e it now that a decision taken preclucling as I am concerned Hon.

Members will remember that when ft plane was placed at my disposal to visit my constituency, this Government I was told when I booked the plane that I would have "Very well."

From the remarks of other hon.

Members it would be seen that a hardship has been created.

which would have cost $300, I refused to pay for its use and I sa.id the otl''3r.
The CHAIRMAN: We are straying bit.

I can only reply to the last speaker.

It is up to Members to table a motion and introduce something.

I do not think we can deal with it this afternoon.

a Mr. JACOB: May I say a word or two for the privileges designated Members, representing to Members in the past to have embarrassing rural constituen­ on this matter?

It is a little to 1\1:embers cies to speak on a matter of this kind.
It may have been possible extended been abused by certain I do not know, but n seems strange that such Members of this Council are with some official rank.

Some interpreta­ tio!1 has been put on some decision by this Council their constituencies have the privilege bit surprised to hear of that decision.

That is not quite right.

It is true that a Mem·­ ber while on a visit to his constituency ls on an official mission, yet he can use it Take the hon.

for two or three purposes.

Member for New Amsterdam.


If he wants to visit his constituency when he was once given travelling service.

he has to pay now the privilege of operated free on a Government that even Members should not continue of free passage.

I am a visiting taken to Mr. WOOLF'ORD: I can assure the hon.

Member that is not my position .

Mr. JACOB: I am afraid the hon.

Member did not hear me.

Let us tal(e the hon.

Member for Berbice Member for Eastern Berbice.

River or the hon.
River or the hon.

The CHAIRMAN: Don't you thi:1k the is co1Tect, answer of the Deputy President that an Elected Member joins this Council The CHAIRMAN: I must say to hon.

for Government the point Members who have raised that I cannot answer without going into it carefully.

If the views expressed are the views of the majority they discuss bring it up again in G"?_uncil.
it between themselves of Members, then it is better and EnucATIOK-QUEEN 's CvLLEGE Item Im-Part-time Teacher of Enr;ineering Drawing, $180.

service to get $3 .50 per hour.

to this expenditure, and I am some part-time he is expected Mr. EDUN: I see it is intended to pay the sum of $3.50 per hour to drawing to the boys in of $1.50 per an Engineer teach eng·ineering the senior forms-an increase hour to Mr. Grace.
I want to take serious objection going to move its entire deletio n. This officer receives a salary of about $230 per month, which works out at $1.10 per I1our -28 days per month-and because he is• giving· to Queen's College This said officer happens to have received education Colony.

When we expect these you!1g men will give something received, with this kind of money criteria-you pay me to g·ive service-although Guiana Scholar.
I is no kind of patriotism these Guiana Scholars, funds to get their certificates return here and do not expect to give a little pa.rt--time to teach other youths.

One would have expected that this young man would go to Queen's on the part of who use public in kind for value we meet up from the public funds of this in every instance hate to think that there and diplomas, service he is a must 189 Snp: Est,imate 20 JUNE, 1946.
-Queen's College 190 he is getting and teach the boys to know some­ College thing about engineering, but that is not so.

We must pay him and pay him to the hilt; although $1.10 per hour in his substantive $3.50 per hour for such extra service.

do not know how Government with equanimity kind.

Is he going to be a teacher, or he going to be an engineer Public Works Department?
an arrangement is for the worlcing can view of this post we must pay him I here to education through to Just a few clays a.go one of the most in the Caribbean com­ to duty to the clarion call cultured leaders munities issued every man receiving public funds by way of Scholarship and return and help his people.

qualify This officer should have returned serve the people.

I do not like this at all.

The time up a different psychology to serve without reward all the time.
It gives no example to the common man at all.

I want to move the deletion arnmgements be of having a teacher claBs, make this part-time of the in the interest but do not of this item and to ask that proper has come when we have to take made.

If it is a question then get a proper teacher psychology-the arrangement.

expecting to receive Mr. THOMPSON: Is this class being conducted outside his official hours?

The CHAIRMAN: Yes; he does it outside his official hom·s.
Mr. de AGUIAR: I wanted to ask whether it is the intention of Governors petuate this class for teaching of Queen's College of the Board to per­ engineering.

The CHAIRMAN: I think the answer is "Yes", Mr. de AGUIAR: If the answer is College, examination.
"yes" it seems to me that the proposal is If one that calls for further is going to form part of the engineering curriculum it seems to at Queen's me that it should be lmown so that a number of boys could take it up greater and if there is going to if they so desire, number of boys Government be a greater should make proper arrangements for teaching them.
Another ·point that arises is that it seems to me that engineering is a specialist subject and thereiore the question Am I to understand t;,e taught at Queen's scale of fees as that charged for other subjects?

that the sub.i Co1lege fees should arise.

of additional for the same ect is to The CHAIRMAN: The answer is "yes".

We asked Queen's College to charge extra fees and they said they are going to continue curriculum.

it as part of thsir The CHAIRMAN : There was much pupils.
He does not teach He has to te?.ch each over this matter.

The officer discussion does a full day's work as an officer of his Department and in his own time he teaches seven individual them all together.

one separately fur them.

If he had £om papils and the class has grown to eight puplls it would be literally his work because it is individual instruction, class.

.

and set separate instruction.


they do attend a It is not class doubling although papers that I would like Members to realise to give in return-but, what the hon.

Member has said is definitely a man who gets a free education true-that from this Colony should be willing something at the same time, we must keep a sense of proportion.

We discussed this Counci.l that Government Grace to do that work.

to do it and if he doeB not do it the position is that we would have no one else to do it.
a short time ago and the fact is He is not bound matter in Executive cannot compel Mr. !Vrr.

de AGUIAR: I think it is but falT I point which should ask but I have risen to and it seems to me that hon.

hon.

Members their views on the subject.

that Government ,irhat are am aware of the fact that the hon.

Mr. Edun has raised an important I had not considered, mention a few more points which I regard as imp01·tant Members of this Council should have an opportunity the situation.
question Governors engineering of the curriculum tain-and I think I am right-that it i.s a specialist train­ subject ing is required, and I think that where there are specialist I am one of tllose who of the Board of of Queen's Coilege that as a subject for which special I main­ of the Colleg·e.

in a secondary the decision should form part to consider every aspect of subjects 191 Sup: Estimate LEGJSLA'l'l\'E COU'.

:\C'TL -Queen's College 192 school special made and special them.
arrangements fees charged should be for teaching classes The next thing is that we might have and no one knows where medical it would end.

It is not merely a matter of the $180 involved in this vote, but I would ask hon.

Members to consider how far this proposal is going t.o seriously lead.

I invite the consideration of hon.

Members to the point I have made so that we might have a decision lea.ve of Queen's College subject of the curriculum.
to decide whether the should form part to the Board of Governors of engineering it entirely on it ancl not The COLONIAL TREASURER: That attending attention sir.

The increase the class, but now the have come in is due to is the answer, the fact that the officer is required to give to the stucleats.

individual At first there were only students from Queen's College Public Works apprentices and the amount has been increased from $2.50 to $3.50 per hour.

In answer to the hon.


Member for Centr:.>.l de Aguiar) I prepares College examinations the First Medical would state that Queen's for the higher them for candidates and also prepares Demerara (Mr. and other examinations.

The CHAIRMAN : I would not lilce hon.

Members to do that today, because you might be leaving this matter void and if we take the item out we would lose the instructions.
Mr. JACOB: I do not know whether Advisory could enlighten the Chairman of the Education Committee I remember that the question before the Committee decided the instructions, increased us on the point.

came up and I think it was to pay a fee of $2.50 per hour for but now it is to be to $3.50.

The CHAIRMAN: Owing to an in the number of boys.

increase Mr. JACOB: But $3.50 per hour seems to be quite a lot of money.
Here is an officer who is asked to do something extra; he is a Guiana Scholar in receipt substantial $2.50 per hour for doing that extra worl, and now he wants $3.50 per hour.

A rate of $2.50 per hour for an 8-hour day works out at $400 per month, and at $3.50 per 11our he receives salary, of a •it works out at $700 per month.

I think the gentleman concerned with the $2.50.

I support the item.
I support the item.

should be satisfied the deletton of Dr. SINGH: This matter was discussed and the by l:he Education Committee ·reason why the rate is being increased because there are additional be taught and Mr. Grace has to give individual matter was well considered was suggested.

increase attention to each student.


The students before the is to Mr. ROTH: I am afraid I cannot follow the was being attention and the officer in per hour should be increased spent four hours a week with them, the argument that because individual attention is being given and because the number of students has increased, remuneration also.

If individual given to four students question if the number of students eight he should spend 8 hours per week with them and then his pay would be double.
I do not see the sense in indreasing the rate of pay.

If the officer gets more students time and if he is being paid by the hour his pay would be automatically he would have is increased increased.

to to give them more attention The COLONIAL SECRETARY: It is of individual the officer has to do a not only a question in the classroom; certain amount of preparation hand.

He has to prepare the work that the students, and he has to correct the nature of home-work, sort of thing.
are going to do the worli: they do in individually, and all that before­ Mr. THOMPSON: We seem to be in to seven or of a mess.

Am I to understand If so, I think we should somewhat that the class is to be limited eight students?

make proper arrangements boys who want to take up the subject come in.

I do not see why the time of the officer should be limited number of hours per week.
so that all the either to a certain could The CFIAIRMAN: I think the position is that he would give so many hours week, for which he would have to be paid $3.50 instead for the increase of $2.50 per hour.

The reas011 is that there are more per 193 Snp: Esti111ate 20 ,Ju::rn, 1946.

-Local Govt.

HJ--1 work for and he has to prepare students them apart from teaching room.

If he has to take 12 students, would have to spend more hours per week in his preparation apart from the time spent in the classroom.
in the class­ he Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: Is this amount for the half year, or for the whole year?

The sum of $280 has a.lready been paid to this officer and I would like whether this $180 is of the year.

to know to carry us to the end The COLONIAL TREASURER: It is for the whole year, sir.

Mr EDUN: In view of the assnra.nce many questions has given I would which Your Excellency not press for the deletion of the item, but I would ask you to go into the ques(;ion carefully, sir.
It involves like how many hours per day does this officer work and whether an 8-hour day is applicable creating nature if we continue agree, howe:ver, engaged to teach these engineering apprentices.

that you \Vith the assurance have given, I would not press for the deletion my motion.

to him.

I thinlc we would be of a very serious that someone should be a precedent this kind of the item but would withdraw of vote.
·i: The CHAIRMAN: I think all the points The CHAIRMAN: What I will do i.3 raised are good ones, but if we delete this item we would not get Mr. Grace to do the work.

I suggest that we pass the item now and Government would give the a.ssurance that something later on to see whether we could get an Engineering for Queen's I have listened and I appreciate points raised.

the force of the various to all that has been said Instructor Item passed.

would be done College.


to get in touch with the Director Works and the Principal Co!leg·e, matter with them in Executive Capt.

Nobbs, and discuss the of Public of Queen's Council.

SCHOOL EssEqumo DoYs' Mr. EDUN: This is a considerable sum; I would like to know what revenue is derived from this school.

The CHAIRMAN: I shall endeavour to find out and let the hon.

M·ember lrnow.

to engineering apprentices Item passed.


Mr. de AGUIAR: I am willing to accept sir, and as Your Excellency to consider the matter, also the to give special I to consider your assurance, has promised would -ask Government point whether it is desirable training Queen's College apprentices College are rms 1 e pros ons an o ers w 11c 1 train engineering but I do not know whether fees have to be paid for the training.
should be trained apprentices, or somewhere at and if so, whether these else, I know there at Queen's Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: So far as these apprentices practical Department.

are concerned, they are getting training from the Public Works The CHAIRMAN: That is instruction in things like drawing_ Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: That is what I am saying for the benefit of the hon.

Member for Central Demerara.

The apprentices from the get practical Public Works Department, but they have to get technical othenvise.
training training ·E.rtr ordinan E.r 1cnditu1·c Item-Purchase of a Station Wagon $3,000.

Mr. de AGUIAR: I think the explana·· that he should go to work tion given here is rather vague.

We are not quite sure as to who is going to use this station waggon.

It is going to be used by the Social Welfare Officer and his staff, or is it intended in it?

I am not unmindful tions which relate that if a Public Officer requires the purpose of his duties, would give it to him or would give him a allowance.
travelling I think I in saying· that Government that an officer should have a car of his there has been own, aml I clo not think to this matter:.

I know a car for of the Regula­ am right always prefers Goverament 19ii Snv: E stimafe LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -Locai Govt.

196 an in this with a car vehicles that policy-whereby himself allowance.

of that policy.

It.


seems to me, that an attempt is being made a reversal however, here to reverse provide officer should Frankly, and receive travelling I do not like this explanation.

I do not know whether hon.

Members prefer Government to purchase to use in the form and give them to officers performance or whether of their duties, they prefer the othe1· order of things a whereby an officer is made to purchase car anc!

then given travelling allowance.


The next thing we are going to find is that the Council funds for the payment of a driver or and also for the main­ mechanic, tenance of the vehicle.

In other wol·ds, this vote is not going to stop here-with the purchase thinlc If the officer has to go about in the per­ formance but do not let us buy a vehicle purpose.

of his duties let him get a car, for that is going to be asked to provide we are going in the wrong direction.
of a station waggon-and I discussed The CHAIRMAN: I thought the hon.

with the circum­ I think the Commissioner Member was familiar stances, because of Local Government and agreed that it would be elsewhere waggon as better to secure this proposed.

With the permission Members I would li�e the Commissioner of Local Government to answer the point raised, but I do not know whether other hon.

Members would prefer to speak first.

the matter station of hon.

At There are Dis­ is divided two sections.


both of these things.

moment, sir, as hon.

Members aware, the Social Welfare· would provide the present are probably branch of my Department mainly into trict Officers who reside in the districts, and there is an Executive Staff of Welfare Officers at headquarters.

There specialist officers in 4-H Club work and co-operative stationed that if Social Welfare work is to progress the Executive officers, veyance and keep in touch with the District Officers.
should have some means of con­ ts to enable Welfare Officers and the specialist at headquarters.

them to visit the distric It is essential and they are also methods, are also expenditure.
and Welfare funds, I feel that that money given to us for Although is being borne by_ Colonial At present we have to hire vehicles for their use at very great cost and I regard that as unnecessary this expenditure Development it is improper the development of the social people should be spent on such unnecessary things as motor car hire and waiting in the districts.

the Specialist fare Officers ·would be able to go very frequently be equipment able to guide and 'help the district officers to do.
in their work as they are expected into th(;) districts with them, and they would time waggou If I get this station and the Social Wel­ and take their life of these Officers Mr. EDUN: I do not like the idea of a big waggon running about the villages with placards and all that sort of thing.

It would probably affair.

loolc like some gypsy Mr. de AGUIAR: That is something to the point I have raised.

additional The CHAIRMAN: I will call upon the to of Local Government Commissioner explain the matter.
Mr. LAING: The position in regard to the applica.tion for funds for the pur­ chase of a station of efficiency.

I !mow this Council stand for efficiency economy also, and I think that this vot,e and for thRt Memoers of waggon is in the interes,.

At the present time I cannot afford travel Officers regularly and that is the reason and do their duty properly of having to for the hire on a proper footing and enable to send the Executive into the districts for this request.
It would help me to put thing·s officers to -without the extravagance spend money unnecessarily of motor cars and other vehicles.

I know it would be said that they can travel by train, not do.

One hon.

Member says "Let -the a car", but I should like officer purchase to remind him that a car costs £500 while the salary of the officer would be annum if he is a junior officer.

Would it , be reasonable or fair to ask a junior officer to put his hand into his pocket and pay £500 for a motor car?
or 'bus, but that would or by bicycle £200 per I say it would not be fair-it would not be reasonable-to lower income group to do anything ask an officer in the of that L!ii Sup: Estimctfe 20 Ju:-;J;:, :t.94G.

-Local Govt.

198 J p1·operly, the to do from waiting Dividing Are we going expenses.

expenses?

As t·egarcls If this Council of the Department, whether it they must have assistance Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: There may be }Cincl.


-1:f lhe officers are to do their duty from the ques­ of the rural The responsi­ Gove1·nment to travel.

ti.CJn of the maintenance c:an be met from the Social Welfare gnr1t.

Wliat I am asking for is the cost says "You o:f the vehicle.

rnust not have this vehicle and you must send officers into the country_ districts without my aid", Jet it be put ·on record so that there may be no compla·int from this council that the progress distdcts has been retarded.
bility must rest with you-the hon.

J\l.

[einbers or this Council.

the travelling expenses expenses which are included I would be very reluctant that might hamper or delay the work in the out­ of any welfare necessary to separate of this vehicle, this the waiting· in the travelUng vote into two does not reduce the running expenses be met by a grant or a vote from Colonial revenue.

anything progress lying districts, the acquisition maintaining sary to keep that will be anything· of a car from a garage.
I think this Council hiring expenses when these officers to get out into districts rather than to acquire maybe in the near future erect a garage ancl supply it with mechanics and spare parts; etc.

I would rather .

that the con­ expenses tinue than to make this outlay which at the moment is $3,000.

We may as well ndd another nought and make the amount $30,000 it is necessary the rural a van and van in running condition, less in cost than the hire Mr.
PEER BACCHUS: I am afraid I am not convinced given by the explanation bY the head of the Social Welfare Depart­ nunt.

It appears to me that the· responsibility th� is one which concerns officers unle.ois we are going to depart from the procedur officers are assisted in acquiring t11e proper performance for hiring cars for travelling it and doing all that is neces­ e whereby Government to pay the for but still I cannot see that of a station waggon, would be well advised The PP..ESIDENT: of their duties.
The hon.

Member and be done.

must have heard Mr. Laing asl, whether we can expect a junior officer earning per annum to buy a cur.

cars for £200 Mr.

PEF.

:R BACCHUS: If you do not a ju nior ofilcer to buy a car, it might assist be unreasonable to expect him to do so.

I clo not see where the argument the · case, when Mr. Laing says that the grant cannot afford him to pay the neces­ sa n• tr:a velJing: exflenses in the outlying districts.

fer the Offiee1 � supports Mr. LAING: To a point of correction!
That is not what I said.

and, for Mr. de AGUIAR: I ha�e had the to the of listening and pleasure I have never heard him before a cause so nobly as he did of Local Government in this Council, I privilege Commissioner making speeches that matter, answering questions, 'but must confess championing today.

Knowing him as well as I do, I that when he spoke he did so reallzed feelingly on the subject and to see Social Welfare carried like the hon.

Member (Mr.
Member (Mr.

Peer Bacchus) I still remained with a desire work in this country out in the best way possible.

for Western ·Berbice But The CHAIRMAN: Just say what you unconvinced of the necessity to pass this said?

Mr. LAING: What I cannot afford to expenses waiting do is to pay t11e necessary to chauffeurs, who tal<e the officers from headquarters to the rural districts have to wait for them.

We cannot afford to pay the high rates charged.

the District districts and other means to get about.
I bicYcles do not wish the hon.

Member to misquote Ille, Officers use their In the and buses and in order to carry I do not think the Ofiicers use bicycles, vote.

In the course of his remarks refer­ ence was made to the fact that these District other forms of conveyance out their duties: Government instance, ofllcers of the lower cannot afford to 'buy a car is begging the The point I make, is this: It question.
would be more economical to carry out these duties as at the present wishes me to quote this but to make the point that income tax group until this 199 Sup: E slimate LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -Local Govt.

200 a station waggon is operating that are made expenditure expenditul'e its plans completely of this Colony and under deprecate the from time to time of expe:iditure in the country formulates for social welfare work, when we can embark on extraordinary of this kind.
We are at present under a grant vote and, as a Member of this Council, I strongly attempts for the inclusion Estimates ordinary being carried for Colonial Unless there is specific reason :rnd unless it is in order to complete the particular we should embark on this expenditure now.
Supposing pleted next year or whenever found that we have no more use for this waggon, attitude�sell for work that is out under a special Development what is going to be Government's o bject in view, I do not think when the work is com­ and Welfare.

it is, it is grant it?

The CHAIRMAN: If there is no use for it, sell it.

is to Mr. de AGUIAR: I hope it will not be said "We bought it last year for $7,500 and it has to be sold this year for $4,000."
That is what happens when we rush into things too quickly.

My sug·gestion defer this item and not pass it in Council today.

I am not against work at all, and I would like to assure the Commissioner I wish to encourage person to make any suggestion the work.

Does it mean that furnishing a station waggon is going to improve the work that is being done, an-:J. if it is not had would it impede progress?

I am not satisfied about that.

the work.

I would be the last about that.


to retard Social Welfare in this Mr. JACKSON: I rise to support the I am satisfied that vote asked for, because it will be money well spent and it will be of service to Social Welfare work.

The Social Welfare Organization Colony is young and needs the guidance and help of those who are at the head of affairs.

I know how difficult in the rural districts, who are supposed Welfare war!
{ is carried on properly are to visit, visit the if they are to perform torily, it is to travel and if the officers to see that this Social and there is need for them to and their duties satisfac­ should be then travelling various centres made easy periodically, by those bicycle, to use bicycles.

would be far less if they move.

I am positive for travelling· to guide and assist They will not as freely and I am.

also satis­ for them.

It is well.


and good for those to speak of who reside in Georgetown travelling but you by 'bus and cannot expect the Officers, who are to go into the rural districts the people, be able to move about frequently as necessary.

fied that providing an economical that the expenses who have t.-.i visit these organizations the rural areas have a station hire cars and pay for the waiting A Social Welfare will be able to visit several scattered a waggon at his disposal.
no need to hire a car and pay for waiting !

}ours.

of travelling quarters to the out-stations and quite necessary.

with all my hea1't, that the vote will serve a useful purpose and wm tend to keep down expenses in a day, if he has There will be I am quite sure that this method visits and have to pay necessary for those who are at head­ waggon than if they are to is an economical one I support the vote over a district I am satisfied because hours.

in .
in .

officer f.rom headquarters organizations fire, rigidly too, for to conditions why should this Council The Social Welfare Depart­ I am satisfied that value to -the I heartily cong-ratulate the on the of Local Government Mr. THOMPSON: I must admit that the last speaker has stolen my thunder completely.

Commissioner defence he has put up.

I am support­ ing that item because i_t will be of an economical Department.

ment has been under some time.


If now is the opportunity improve stand in the way of the Officer who has asked that much?

If we were to think of lhe distance to 'be covered in the rural districts, starting cover a far greater number of officers can be taken up and dropped here and can cover the whole of the East Coast Demerara and the West Coast Berbice in a day with one car and return to head­ by car is a quarters.

bigger item of expenditure.


I do agree that a station Welfare Department value economically am supporting out in the morning you can waggon given to the Social the item with all my heart.

But taking them will be of imme11se there on the route.

They and otherwise, distance by car.

A and I we would realize that 20 Jum:, 1946.

-Local Govt.

202 Mr. JACOB: I am not disappointed the to the Com­ in fact I would at the last two speeches; expect them to support passionately part of the Social Welfare Officers.
I ,.

;till maintain after listening missioner of Local Government be uneconomical to purchase waggon, provide it with a chauffeur like those.

I am not too sure that the gasolene for.

accounted and other things will 'be properly a station provide and a garage and things it with gasolene, that it will The CHAIRMAN: I do not think the hon.

Member is right!

Mr. JACOB: I say, I am not too ::iure.

Development expressed.


that whatever the Cari'bbean, with thi3 Depart· It is not only being affair work in going around the districts and all le the very many bad opinions given sir, that the salaries has been said, to the Officers connected ment eat up the whole substance of the Social Welfare fund.
said in this Colony but it is a current throughout funds come hern for Colonial and Welfare will be wasted in the salaries to Officers connected For that reason I am going to be pn:.ctical and I am going to take the Commis�ion at his word and allow for a station a chance Social Welfare Department Colony.

I think that is the wisest course to adopt in this case.

· I would asl� the hon.


Member f.or Central Demerara (Mr. de Aguiar) and the other Members who spoke against waggon in order to give him the bad name the has got in this the item to give Mr. Laing him to spend $3,000 to retrieve a chance.

er with the Department.

The CHAIRMAN: Never look on the worst side of things !

and particularly in British with I am watching of Social Mr. JACOB: No, sir.
· I do not think Social Welfare work should be undertaken as an economic problem in all the Carib­ bean Colonies, Guiana.

Nevertheless considerable Welfare work in this Colony.

I hope it will not share the same fate as the Agricultural I am not which have failed completely.
some amount from opposed to granting our funds for the hire of a car so as to see Bias and things like those the progress interest f that this work is carried on economically: It is of by the Commissioner when wanted and pay for the hire That is the point I wish to stl·ess.

being stressed Local Government and the two Members with Local Government that connected It WJII not this thing will be economical.

be.
be.

It will be far more economical to hire a vehicle a vehicle than to purchase known whether the work will be cont:inued after the vote has been exhausted.

If the for a longer time than five years is another matter.

I do µovernment not think $3,UOO now and a great more later in the running of this waggon.

is wise in spending when it is not -worlc would be continued I visit the districts very often and I holding more than Mr. Laing doe3.

does not hear these things.


I that the in the districts so could go there in numbers to talk hear, perhaps, It is said, the elephant has large ears but cannot hear what is being said of him.

Perhaps the Head of the Social Welfare Department think a Station Waggon would be con­ venient in this sense - beating up enthusiasm about Social Welfare, meetings Office1:s a:bout those things.

To educate you must have mobility.


my association order to beat up enthusiasm, Head of this Department us give him, but let us scrap the other loud speaker project.

practical.

Knowing Mr. Laing as I do from my contact with him, he will not mislead He knows what he is about.

Let him get this waggon and show us what his officers will do.

in and if the wants $3,000 let this Council.

In my own case I want to be the people must get transportation I do not want to be s2ntimental.
The CHAIRMAN: I think we have sufficiently.

the subject I shall ventilated put it to the vote.

Mr. EDUN: Having listened to the very appeal of the CommissionP.r impassioned of Local Government--!

him so very sentimental going to be practical.

be sentimental all that I have heard about Social Welfare have never found as today-I am I am not going to like him, having regard to Question put, and agreed to.

Item passed.

The Council until the following day at 2 p.tn.

.

resumed and adjourned