Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1694838716769.pdf (Guyana)
150 11,[ embers Present LEGISLATIVE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL COUNCIL Hospital Pees Reg.

160 ANNOUNCB�vIENT ' P .

;THURSDAY, 20TH JUNE, 1946. '

.

I!OSPl'l'AL li'EES REGULATIONS The COLONIAL .SECRETARY (Mr. communicated the followir.J.

Parkinson) message:- The Council met at 2 p.m., His Ex- cellency Government, President, in the Chair.

the Officer Administering the Mr. W. L. Heape, C.M.G., Honourable Council, MESSAGE No.
3 Members of the Legislative PRESENT The Presid1;mt, Officer Administering Mr. W. L. Heape, C.M.G.

His Excellency thi': the Governmem;, The Council is invitC'd to approve the amending of the Hospitrtl Fees Regulations so as to give effect to tl,e decisions of the Whitley Council with regard to Public Officers and Government Employees on the Permanent Salary of the Colony paying fees to hospital.

Establishment on admission The Hon.

the Colonial Secretary, Ml·.

2.The question was raised by the T�1e Hon.


J.

B. Singh, 0.B.E.

(Dem­ 4.

It should be explained D.J.

Parkinson (acting) .

The Hon.

the Attorney-General, Mr. F.w.

Holde'i:.

! "

The E;ci'n.

the Colonial .-w. 0.

Fraser (acting).

, .

-·• Treasurer, Mr.

The Hon.

E.G.

Wao!ford, 0.B.E., K.C.

(New Amsterdam).

The Hon.

J. I. de Aguiar (Central Demerara).

The Hon.

H. N. C1·itchlow (Nomin-· ated).

: erara-Essequibo).

The Hon.

Peer Bacchus (Western Ber- bice).

The Hon.


c. R. Jacob (North Western District).

The Hon.

J. W. Jackson, O.B.E., <Nominated).

"I;he Hon.

A. M. Edun (Nominated).

V. Roth <Nominated) '.l'he Hon.

The Hon.

T. T. Thompson (Nomin- .

ated).

The Hon.

w. J. Raatgever (Nomi- nated).

The Clerk read prayers.

Civil Service Associati-Jn in 1937 and again in 1939, when concessions covering inter a wider field were sought entailing, alia, free treatment classes of employees.

for certain 3.
for certain 3.

The matter vms however left in was not the until 1943 wh�n the Association that if Government to grant the concessions, abeyance requested prepared matter be referred which, as Members are aware, comprises an Official and Staff Side; the Official Side consisting appointed by Side of representatives Association.

of Heads of Departments the Governor and the Staff of the Civil Servic.

:: to the Whitley Council that the been a. free treatment less than MO a month.
In haG originally one indeed, asking fo1· for all Public Association's request very sweeping example, Officers and Government Employees receiving Whitley Council however the Staff Side mocJ.ified their requests agreement fees only as a number c)f Public OfficerK and Government in receipt treatment between the Official and.

Staff Sides was reached and the question is now before this Council to give efir,ei to the Whitley Council's Employees either of free treatment or of at reduced rntes.
Agreement on the concession decisions.

were already by asking for of reduced 5.The implementation of these will mean tlvH Public Officers decisions and Government Employees in--patient any Government will be charged for such treatment reduced rates as follows:- rece1vmg in certain wards of hospttal in the Colony at trea.tment Minutes of the meeting of the Coun­ ci'l held on the 14th June, 1946, as printed a.lld circulated, �nprmed.
were taken as read ancl $2.00 per diem Ward .... $1.20 per diem $1.50 ,, � .50 ,, .96 ., .32 ,, " .

.

.

.

� ,...,.--,,....-= -- 161 Quarantine 20 JUNE, 19-±6.

Bill 162 in the rate is proposed No reduction in the case of the Lady Thompson Ward as it is considered luxury treatment Employee desiring accommodation there should pay the full rate.

that that Ward and any Officer or "An Ordinance and similar matters."

provides relating to.


quarantine of the 6.It was also a decision Whitley Council that these concession:, should not be extended families where such concessions force they should be discr:mtinuecl.

and that are already in of Officers or Employees to the wives and 7.These changes, if approved by this Council will affect the rig-hts of Officers and Employees already provision rights has been made !n the amending Regulations.
and i:, the Service for the pre�ervation of these W. L. HEAPE, Officer Administering the Government.

GOVERNMENT HOUSE.

British Guiana, 12th June, 1946.

PAPER L;,m The COLONIAL TREASURER (Mr. Fraser) laid on the table the following:- The Schedule for May-June, of Additional 1946.

Provision OPFIC [J\.L KO'I'ICBS IIosPI'rA[, PE�:s 1:-;.f.

'.cmr,AT10:\'S The COLONIAL SECRETARY gave notice of the following motion:- to the Officer th0 Government's "That, with reference Administering Message No.
3 dated the 12t,h of June, 1946, this Council approves Hospital tions, 1946."

Fees (Amendment) of the Regula­ I desire to point out for the informa­ Convention (a) the International­ signed at Paris on (as a.mended by the tion of hon.

Members that the objects are to carry into effect, Sanitary the 21st June, 1926, International Convention, .Sanitary to which this Colony acceded on the.
20th December, to carry into effect, (bl the International Sanitary signed at The Hague on the 12th April, 1933, (as amended by the International Sanitary 1944), to which this Colony acceded on the 1st August, 1929.

The Bill is also intended fol' Aerial Navigation, for Aerial Navigation Convention Convention 1944), 1935.
Further, it will carry into effect, (c) Bill and Regulations in the Report, in the British· on the basis of a Conference West Indian held in Trinidad 1943, in which• the adoption the Report of tl1e Brtti:,h Quarantine in November, of uniform legislation, draft Quarantine contained West Indies and British Guiana was, .
( (dl the Report of the West \ \ recommended; Indian Conference held in Barbados in March in 1944 in which there was recom­ mended the adoption administrations uniform legislation prepared to the recommendation subject that, with reference to the definition "immune" in the Firnt and ·second Schedules (the Quarantine Regulations Regulations Quarantine a yellow fever inoculation should be four, instead and the Quarantine respectively Bill, the ppriod of validity by all the British in the Caribbean based on the mod2l of three, years.
however, area uf of of by the Quanmtine Convention <Mai·itimel (Air) I to the model certificate SUPPT,EMENTARY 8f-Til\l AT ES MAY-,JUXE, l!J-1G.

The COLONIAL TREASURER gave notice of the followin� motion:- "That, this Council approves S::hedule fo!· Provision May-June, 1946, whj.ch has been laid on the table."

of Addition.al of the ORDER OF THE DAY QUAIUN'TINE HH,L .
;;: The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: In of this l3ill moving the second reading intituled The existing Quarantine Ordinance, to either ' to which I have already Chapter 99, was enacted in 1928, that is to say, before the Colony acceded of the Conventions I should also inform hon.

referred.

to imple­ Members that the Ordinances ment the recommendations of the Conferences been passed in Trinidad Leeward Islands Members will turn to the Bill itself will see that it consists In clause 1 it is providrd and Dominica.
and Tobago, th2 If hon.

they of 12 clauses.

that the Ordi.J,1- to which I have referred haV•3 163 Q1wra.ntine LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Bill 16!

,· ap­ may by proclamation Under clause 3 (1) the Quarantine in the Colony will be the Director an<i who will control ance "shall come into force on such a date as the Governor point."
Authority · of Medical Services direct the Health Officers ing Officers visions clause 4 Regulations Governor that they are subject confirmation Clause 4 (3) reads :- who are to enforce of the Quarani,ine to amendment by the Lrgislative the pro­ laws.

UndP.r will be made by the in council: but I would emphasize and the Visit - Council.

and will have power to vary or rescind any Order.


such emergency In clause 7, provision is made for against, the Or-­ is made there­ for offences punishment dinance or the Regulations under, while under clause 8 provision made for the payment of rewards to in­ formers.

Clause 9 deals with the duty and power of the Police, and clause with the disposal and expenses Authority far as the Bill itself low certain for ships and so on.
That is '30 is concerned; 10 deals of charges by the Quarantine and n,covery schedules.

incurred then fol­ "(3) Regulations made untler shall not (1) of this section subsection have any force or effect until con­ firmed by resolution any tive Council.

In confirming Council Regulations, the Legislative may make any amendments thereto which it may deem desirable."
of the Legisla­ Then, Clause 4 (4) s�a.tes :- "(4) The Regnlations contained in the First and Second Schedules hereto shall be deemed to have been made and confirmed visions of this secti011."

under the pro­ Clause 5 empowers the Quarantine by the Governor of.

Medical Ser­ - the Director have to make Rules which will Authority vices-to be apprcved before they take effect.

As will be seen, these Rules will implement the Regula-­ tions made under clause 4 and must not, with then:•.
be in conflict in Council Clause 6 provides for the making of emergency Authority.

Orders by the Quarantine Clause 6 (1) reads:- of the speci�l "(l) When in the opinion Authority the Quarantine an emergency may Authority to be measures of that the crmtinuance Quarantine exists, by Order direct taken during emergency specified this Ordinance, shall have effect thing to the contrary tions or Rules in frJrce by virtue of those sections."
four and five of aucl any such Order notwithstanding any­ f01· any of the purposes in any Regula­ in sections The First Schedule, as hon.
Members will see, has been made under clause 4. which states in subclause (1) that : " ( 1) The GoYernor in Council may make Regulatir,ns, the whole or any PR-rt of the Colony, including thereof, the ports and coastal for preventing- in respect waters of {a) danger to public health from or things ( b)the spread of infection ships or aircraft arriving therein, or persons at any place; and by means of any ship or aircraft about to leave any place.
or by means of any person or thing about to leave any place in any ship •.

:>r aircraft."

Sub-clause (4) reads :- "(4) The Regulations contained in the First and Second Schedules hereto shall be deemed to have been made and confirmed visions of this section."
under the pro­ to the of shipping·, which Regulations and into 11 parts.· Part I, which is The First Schedule relates (Maritime) Quarantine will cover the question is divided introductory, while of definitions from Part II deals with "Ships arriving port" is a port Foreign Ports."

A "foreign or place situated than in this Colony.

in the Regulations, elsewhere .


I deals with the interpretation It will be appreci:a.ted that such a in view of the fa(:t power is very necessary that unforeseen denly arise and might require attention under clause 6 (2), that the Governor might sud­ circumstances immediate and action.

It is also provided, Part III deals with provisions as to ancl the procedure to ships in quarantine be adopted by the Qm.

;.1·antine in such cases.

In this l'C'spect, 13 states:- Authority Regulatio,1 "13.
In relation diseases, in­ which the measures fectious may be taken and the circumstances to specified i65 Q1iarant1'.ne 20 JUNE, i946.
!Jill 166 --, were part of these Regulations: in which they may he taken shall be in Articles 24 to such as are specified a:rid Articles 29 to 27 (both inclusive) Jf the Convention, 42 (both inclusive) these Regulations and for that purpose shall have effect as though those Ar­ ticles that references Provided ticles to the port sc1,nitary or the port authorities authority ment, and so forth, shall be constrUEd as though they were references Quarantine Officers while on page 18 there is Schedule out the form of a Maritime tmder Regulation of Health, on page 20 gives B which appe".rs referred, "A, setting Declaration Schedule what is provided and deals ,with "Wireless C deals with of Information."
the "Use of Flags and Signals", Schedule under Regulation and the form of the certificate D deals with "Bill of Health" 18, showing the purpose Authm·ity, or an authorised authority or the sanitary of the port or the Gonn1- for under Regulation 5 Schetlnle officer."

the Health in those Ar­ while to th� 4.

Messages-Item As regards the meaning of "Con­ if hon.

Members refer to the Regulation.


2, they will see vention", Interpretation that it means "the International Convention June, 1926, (as amendfd by the Inter­ na.tional Sanitary which relevant the Appendix signed at Paris on the 21st of Convention, are set -forth in hereto."

extracts 1944) of Sanitary Part IV deals with the provisions and from the of ships", to ships deriorting while Part V deals with "Miscel­ provisions relating Colony, as to ships arriving laneous in port."
Part VI deals with the "dera­ and Part VII with tisation and bagga_ge" carried by "merchandise ships.

Part VIII refers to "observation and if hon.


Members and surveillance" look once again at t'.l.e Interpretat regulation tion" means "the detention supervision for such periods as a Health Officer," means "that persons are not detained, that they may move about freely, they are required-to r"port for medical and during examination such period and to such nersons directed they will see that "observa­ under medical in such places and may be directed by while "surveillance" by a Health Officer."
at such intervals of persons but that as may be ion Then follows the Appendix on page 24 from the Inte1'­ On signed at Article Section Sanitary Sanitary Articles Convention IV deals with the measures 42 dealing by the Second Schedule Convention, to plagues, 35 and there are relevant with advice in such cases.

Then which is an "extract national Paris on the 21st June.

1926, as amended by the International 1944."

be taken in relation to various and while Section IV {A) deals· with 29 deal, with Cholera.
Plague, Fever is dealt with under page 28 Yellow Article dealing there is Article followed out the Quarantine This Schedule parts and Regulation tions and the interpretations which have to be applied (Air) Regulations deals with the Movements Part III with General Sanitary setting in Regulation of specified recorded" tion (8) states :- to them so far as the Quarantine are concerr,ed.
Part II and 7 and de:::.ling infectious in Regulation with Smallpox, which sets 1946 (Air) Regulations, into various diseases 8.

This Regula-­ with "Details to ·be out the Duties nf the Commander is sub-divided 2 deals with defini­ Provisions, of Aircraft, "8.
When any specified infectious in any makes its n,ppearance the Health Officer shall enter all officer in the papers of all disease part of the Colony, or an authorised necessary details leaving aircraft days from the the period of fifteen of such date on which information was re­ infectious specified ceived."
the aerodrome disease during Part IX deals wi.th the Duties of the ap­ Part X deals ,.->'hile provisions Authority, Quarantine with Charges for sanitary measures plied and also makes "farther as to expenses deals with miscellaneous ing a "general instructions "certificates taken".

At page 24 h"Jn.

Members will see the appendix and concli.

as to sanitary and charges."

Part XI matters, duty to comply with orders, measures typhus and smallpox," measures to "Special relates the case of yellow fever."
Part VI sets out the duties of the Q1wrantine who, as I have already .

Director of charges for sanitary pointed Services.

Part IV deals with "Special in the case of plague, to wr..ich I have already of Medical measures sanitary measures while Part V 1;ions," as well as includ­ in Authority out, is the sanitary cholera, The question applied 167 Q11.arantine LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL B-ill 16.3 tu 8, pffect all that has Then there relating deals with plague, on page 41 relating of carrying into matters.
I beg to move that Part C wit-h typhus fever, to be ca1Tled out in respect or an aircraft Area."

Part A Part B purpose been agreed to, so as to bring our practice into line with modern practice quarantine the Bill be now read a second time.

is dealt with under Pal't VII, while Part Then VIII deals with "Miscelianeous."

there is a schedule to the "Measures aircraft of an infected coming from an infect':'d of the Schedule with chclera, and Part D with SmB.llpox.
Articles which contains is an Appendix 18, and 36.

Hon.

Members have before which them a typed copy of an amendment I propose 36.

It Article it was taken from the is a long one and Then, at the terms of the Convention.

end, I wish to make an amendment will include the Regulations made the terms of the Convention.

The PRESIDENT: Before I ask.


Members to speak on the principle of the Bill, I would be grateful information This Bill is unusual in that we are being asked to approve of wb,t appears to be Conventions Gov­ ernments Attorne:,i.-General, whe�ller Bill through this Council three matters which refer to approve which Council appears from page 24 to the end.

In other words, what should we do about it?


It extracts contains signed by Metropolitan they have been put ln this Bill for convenience to me unusual of British Guiana should be asked to approve of them.
it seems that the Legislative in taking this I should ask th� I have tried to explain the points from a Convention Governments signed by Metropolitan and I should like to know, Mr. in order to bring our local by this Colony under and guidance-but such legislation to move as regards which to of tl:e Appendix Council t"!

".al, - for some further from the Attorney-General.

Com­ to air traffic Chapter 99, no wireless by the Conference to this Bill ar.d I am sure hon.
based on the Col­ into line with modern quaran­ Quaran­ Under the existing relating Members will realise is necessary legislation tine practice.

tine Ordinance, communication with respect is provided for as it was intended for sea traffic.

I may mention that Trinidad has passed an Ordinance model approved onies in that year, and that before the U. N. N. R. A.

Rehabilitation mittee had reported Trinidad had passed their Ordinance.
all"eady stated, to in the Bill were submitted West Indian Colonies �nd British and we acceded to them.

Now, we are seeking to what ap­ to the Conventions, pears to me to be a reservation made by this Colony in connectic-.n with the Con­ to give I have endeavoured ventions.

hon.
hon.

Members a longer snrvey of this mat•­ ter than is usual, bec'.iuse I think it is desirable that they sh01ild to follow the Bill-those -and understand and the various annexures to carry into effect our adherence sucject be in a position Schedult:f, the v�l"ious who have read iG As I have to the Bill.

as well as any Regulations As I have stated, the Bill con­ tains only 12 clauses, but there are all added to them for the these other provisions That The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: should be done, Your Excellency.
After all, hon.

Members have the right to express fully their views on t�.e various aspects of the Bill.

The PRESIDENT: Granted; but I do not see how we can very well go beyond the Conventions.

The PRESIDENT: Council, Legislative consent to the insertior.

You are asking the to fo�· instance, 36. of Article to these two Conventions: the Article I think, have The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: But we we are are not am ending anything: inserting Hon.
Members, relation are not amending anything, putting in somtthing ment has said that it is making certain in relaticn reservations Conventions."

particular this Government Conventions for a purpose.

a right to say in "We but we arc this Govern­ in acceding says: "We are acceding to the to In other words, to these two because the Co•1ventions referred to the Guiana We are The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: not amending them; the Bill is really to effect.

carry them into 169 Qiwrantine 20 ,JUNE, 1946.


Bill 170 but v•ith a particula1· these Conventions, reservation concerned.

your Conventions we have reserved."

so far as one aspect of them is Therefore, you must alter in m·d01· to show wha� Bureau, shall de.fine Endemic Yellow Fever areas."

the boundaries of I do not know whether that definitio:1 The PRESIDENT: I do not want to argue with the hon.

the Attorney-General.

This Council approved fn the Bill of the Conven';:ons.

argue about that.
argue about that.

of the incorporation We cannot Mr. de AGUIAR: On a point '.

)f I must say that I agree with This principle!

the hon.

the Attornf'y-General.

Council despite threshed made.

If this Council has the right !

',o accept or reject, the fact that the matter has been .
out and certain agreements I British Guiana, is a Yellow inclu:lf'S ,J:uiana but thr..t on the principle of the boundaries whether or not British Fever area, but to my m;nd I now find it is so, as whoever has to travel abroad on a plane will have to be inoculated.

thought we were immuned from Yellow Fever, so much work in that dlirection having been done in thls Colony, is not so.

I am speakinJ of this measure, It has to be revised Bill is, perhaps, But I want to make this point.
We ought to know beforehand committed we should not buy pork in the bag anymore.

We must know beforeh:1.nd to do in order to protect tlle people observations is.

have now, after rm opportunity of the Bill.

o!

in this Colonv.

With these few the Bill as 1t but I am not against it.

in any case, and this before us for so doine.

We have to decide these things The PRESIDENT: Does any oth�r to.

The ti!
The ti!

:'le has come when on the principle I must surJport the interests •vhat we will be what we have wants- io hon.

Member wish to spi?a:{ of the Bill?

Otherwise the Attorney-General Council Bill clause by clause.

I will ask the hon.

to move that the the go, into Committee to consider The PRESIDENT: HowP.ver, we must be whether we would incorpcrate in our legislation.

guided by the advice of the Attorney­ General.

a very full explanation, speak on the principle Hon.

Membe1·s put, and agreed to.


Bill read a second t.::ne.

The Council resolved to consider the Bill clause by itself into Mr. EDUN: Sir, in my experience in of Question in other part:, convention.

ratificatio,1 at first until one butts up it when traveU;ng I have found that Committee clause.

against being to travel to Air Base, and it was after - this Council of these international conventions does appear harmless against of the world.
I can remrmber citizens this country complaining inoculated when they warited the American wards told to them that it was the result of an international manner many other such conventions were ratified by this Council, and a continuation of such ratifications ceeded until t:his country found itseif within the vortex of giving away extra­ territorial rights to a fc·reign nation.

It appears we are helpless tional affairs, go along like this in all the years to come.
We ought to know beforehand being asked to commit ourselves to.

In this case I have fouml in paragraph getting but any amendments before this Council.

in these interna but I do not think it should 3 which read£ thus: what we are 36, Article In like pro­ - COUNCIL IN COMMITTEE Clause 4-Power to make Regulations.

The CHAIRMAN: It is interesting.

clause is slightly different This particular that from any I have seen.

It provides the Regulations until this Council shall not come into force confisms them.
We are The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: by the Council now, wm have to come ratification UNRRA in consultation "For the purpose of quarantine control, the Governments concerned regards the combined American Sanitary the Western Hemisphere, with and, as with The CHAIRMAN: In taking these Schedules which are ver.v long I think it SCHEDUT.,ES 171 Qitarantine LEGISLATIVE C'om,cJL Bill 172 would be convenient by page.

I would do rn if that suits Members.

if I take them page First Schedule.


The CHAIRMAN: J nsume from what the hon.

the Attorney-General has said, we have to include this in the Bill.

APPENTlIX The CHAIRMAN: What does "foyer", mentioned mean?

in the Interpretation clause sir.

The ATTORNEY--GENERAL: Yes, Part IV-SPECIAL SANITARY MEASUflE,S The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: it refers to the focal point so far as the fever is concerned.

I think Regulation devarting from infected 19-Scl:edule areas.
aircraft The CHAIRMAN: Let-us amend it t0 I think you should give th� of "foyer".

"fever".

definition Mr. JACOB: I see "foyer" appears in two places.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Hon.

Members have before them a list of amendments.

in the first line of sub--paragraph substituted for the word "no".

Question I move tktt the word "on" (fl be.

put, and agreed to.

The CHAIRMAN: I do not think it really means "foyer" in paragraph but in (c) it clearly me'.3.ns fever.
(b), Part V-SPECIAL SANITARY MEASURES IN THE CASE OF YELLOW FEVER Mr. JACOB: I do :::10t know about (bi. )

The CHAIRMAN: Should it not be fever all through?

Regulation 24-M easures from an aerodrome of in an situated on arrival aircraft endemic area.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN: The hon.

the that in foyer" it should be it Attorney-General tlle case of "yellow fever, but where it apprars elsewhere means "foyer".
is of the opinion The word "fever" was substituted 2 paragraph in Regulation for the word "foyer" (c).

Schedule D-Bill of Health.

The CHAIRMAN: This is an impor­ There is no Member who is engaged m shipping.

tant schedule.
present I mov� The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: the insertion between the words "sub-ref;ulation :- and "the" in the first lh-1.e of the following words (1) ·• (2) of Article "endemic area" by the Quarantine any area which is from time "the expression includes to time declared in the by notif:e published Authority, to have br.en defined Gazette, as an endemic area in accordance with paragraph 36 of the International for Aerial Navigation substituted International Sanitary for Aerial Navigation Quarantine notice, declaration.
published 1944, and the may, by a like cancel or vary any such Until a declaration Sanitary Convention by Article 11 of the Convention Authority 1933 as is under this sub-regulation."

Schedule E-Deratisation Certificate.

The ATTORNEY-GSNERAL: I move in column 8 De that the word "poison" amended to read "poirnns".

It is s. error.

typographical Question put, and agreed to.

· The word "of" bcl,ween "case" and "any" in Foot Note (b) was also deleted.
the words Authority with the Medical amount of elasticity if not as conditions The object of this amendment is to to the give a certain Quarantine Service, change so far as contrnl concerned, of this amendment Service change as enacted by U.N.N.R.A.

result 9f experience The object is to give the Medical of these areas is a difficulty may arise.

in a place the power to make any necessary as a and communication.

173 Quarnnt?

:?ie 20 Jmrn, 1946.

Bill 174 Question put, and 2.greed to.

36.


Article aegypti) the said Article."

" in the second para;;raph of It is to insert 36 which appear::; The ATTORNEY--GENERAL: Articl� desirable among the list of amendments to hon.

Members.

As Your Excellency has declared, is a relevant the Articl3 tract and is taken from UNNRA communi­ cation to us.

I beg to move that Article 36 as printed after Article 18. be now insr,rted ex­ circulatccl Question put, and agreed to.

Article 17.
Article 17.

I beg The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: In other words, we will do our best, as far as lies in our power, to exercise control and compliance vention.
Note 3 reads: with the Con­ "Article Convention 47 of the International Sanitary for Aerial Naviga­ tion, 1933, as amended by the Inter­ national Sanitary Convention for 1944, has effect, in Aerial Navigation, to this Colony, ·relation as if there were inserted therein· a provision dromes in the non-endemic comply the Colony shall not necessarily with the requirements of the said Article."

that aero­ areas of to move the insertion Article national been circulated to Members.

38.
38.

That is taken froi:n the Inter­ Sanitary Convention.

It has of Article 47 aftel' That is in regard to screening.

We have so far as this Colnny is concerned made that reservation.

reservations, Notes be inserted.

Those are three and I ask that these three Question put, anc!

agreed to.

Notes.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: There and those are reservations are three Notes in relation ventions by this Colony.

They have to be in­ serted in some part of the law.
Note 1. reads: to these Con­ mad� of Article 38 Con­ Sanitary 1933, as for Aerial Navigation, Sani­ "The requirements of the International vention amended by the International tary Convention tion, 1944, will be complied with· by this Colony only s0 far as may be possible."

for Aerial Naviga­ The reservation is t1,at we will comply precluJe prevailing 38 only so f,u· as we can do ,-;o words, the con­ us from saying with Article in this Colony.
In othe1· ditions we are going all out in support of this particular we should make a reservn,tion Therefore the purpose.

and it is proper th::-,t such as this.

this Note is being inserted Note 2 reads: Article, for The CHAIRMAN: The question that Regulations the Attorney-General, Bill.

is 1 to 12, as explained by te included in the < to.

Motion put and ag!·ced The CHAIRMAN: I think the At­ torney-General Committee.
wants to leave the Bill in The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I will Con­ because they are al­ them so ask hon.

Members to leave the Bill in so that it can be sent to the Committee of State, having regard to its Secretary and to the International functions ventions concerned ways changed.

We are adopting far as we know, but it is just possible that there may be a desire to effect a change If there as regards are no comments, when we come back we can agree to the Bill as already proved.

other rnatters.
other rnatters.

certain ap­ The CHAIRMAN: My inclination is to finish the Bill now, but the Attorney General advises it.

that we postpone "Article 40 of the Internationr.l 1926, as amended Convention, 1944, has effect, Sanitary by the Internatiorntl Sanitary vention, this Colony, as possible" words "render and maintain" words '"free from Stegomyia Con• to as if the words "as far the and the were inserted between in relation (Aedes Council resumed.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I clo not think there will be a long delay.

175 Hospital Fees LEGISLATIVE COUNCTL ( Anidi.)

Regiilations 17G ) ) has already given HOSPITAL FEES (AuENDl\rENT) REGULATIONS and f0r the adjustment Government between Government Government the urgency for setting by em­ and for col­ facilities and employees, for conciliation and his emplo�·ees.

that may arise between a:1 as to how this motion came tp of medicr,l for their employees.

formation be placed before this Council.


Having regard to the relatic,nship employers thought it wise to stress the need fm· the provision ployers has also stressed up machinery lective bargaining, of grievances employer does not want to lag behind in these mat­ ters, since Government in the Colony.

In 1932, Gov­ employers ernment placed before this Council some RegulD,tions em­ which gave to certain ployees outdoor special for machinery t.ccatmE:nt.
conciliation has bargaining been set up, but there ;_� another form of machinery which corresponds to that machinery which very successfully grievances employees.

cf Government treatment at hospitals rights in conne::tion G0nrnm2nt·s and collective between Government ia the adjustment the right to free and its of is now working and certain with indoor is one of the largest very closely The PRESIDENT: With .

the per­ Mr. Laing, to suspend the Standing of Members, is 3 o'clock now-I Are in the debate.
I should ex­ of Local Government, I would like to proceed mission with the next item on the Order Paper.

The Colonial Secretary notice of this motion and if hon.

Mem­ bers would agree to suspmd the Standing Rules and Orders-it would like to take it this afternoon.

favour of this motion hon.

Members in being taken this afternoon ?


I will ais-J ask for permission Rules and Orders to enable the Com­ missioner to intervene plain that Mr. Laing is the Chairman of the Whitley Council and that he has a more intimate Fees Regulations which have resulted coming before this Co�mcil, As hon.

Mem­ other Government Gov­ bers may wish to debate this matter, ernment, would like with your permsision, to have Mr. Laing here to answer any ques • tion that might be raiser!.
is that the Colonial introduce formally your permission, continue Secretary the motion and, with What I propose should I wou1.cl ask Mr. Laing to the explanation knowledge officer.

of the Hospital .

and of the deliberations in those Regulations than any ·The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I rise in T to move the following my name, but before rloing so formally would like Mr. Laing to address the Council:- motion standing "That, with reference to the Of­ ficer Administering Message No.
3 dateri the 12th of June, 1946, this Council approves Hospital Fees (Amendment) tions, 1946."

of the Regula­ the Government'<, is what is known as which consists on the by the This machinel'y the Whitley Council one side of senior offkin.ls cho,:211 Governor to represent the Governm211t and, on the other side, the Established.

Service associ0,tion whose aims Association-an are devoted to the irm�rovement of r.:on-­ and terms of appointment clitions in the Service.
The subordinate are by their Trade Unions.

Gov­ by the Civil Service is represented employees ·represented enrment has, perhaps, behind in this question for its employees Government for certain not embrace all the em:iloyees ment.

of medical ancl although employees, provic.ed medical facilities �11ese facilities dir.l facilitif,s in 1932 lagged somewhat of Govern­ the per­ .

The PRESIDENT: With mission I would invite Mr. Laing to inform hon.

Members of the object and meaning of these Regulations.
of the Council, ' Mr. M. B. LAING, C.M.G., 0.B.E.

of Local Government) (Commissioner : the pro­ Your Excellency, and :!

':Iembers; posal before the Legis!

::i,tive Council is in ·your Excellency's fully set out 3, of the 12th June, 1940. to Council-No.
Perhaps, I mi�ht m,efuily add some in.· Message a request is mainly becau:;e placed before The reason why Government has behinr:l AssociP..tion lagged somewhat the Civil Service Government a.nd fa111ilies-a for themselves felt it could not ap • which Governm::cnt prove.

The matter W% referred Whitley and aft<:>r a very free dis·• cussion Council by that CouncU the Official request for free treatment to the and 177 Hospital Fees 20 Ju�m, ] 946.

(,Amdt.)
(,Amdt.)

Regnlations 178 em­ to certain of the Whitley discussion.

It is now open for set up for the Civil Service Mr. ROTH: I should like to con­ officers facilities the Staff sides agreed that reduced fees Mr. Critchlow.

might be payable by G0vernment as a whole and that the�e medical should not be restricted ployees only.
There is one difference between the machinei·y Council machinery that is, in the Civil Service the independence therefore Official before the Governor Assembly, Council have the ri!Iht of veto whei·e money is involved gratulate forward this very timely motion.

I can say that during the 28 years I spent in the Civil Service, grievances free medical attention The amount of money I paid for medical would have endowed several aLLenLiun I most heartily annuities.

motion.
motion.

reached by the and the Staff sides must come and this Legislativ•� and this and the industry and we do not have Mr. JACKSON: I think this motion is and both the Governor Government for bringing was that certain set up in pri7ate any agTeemeet one of my greatest while I did not.

of th<J private employer, endorse this officers got .

The PRESIDENT: It is not only where money is involved .

Mr. LAING: Yes.

The Governor body uf in order that they his right to veto the to their dutiPc:.
of the agrPement that is now before this Council­ of the bigger medical who wcnld attend more Similarly, it is in this amend­ has not exercised request reached in for approval the Whitley Council.

I think it is also to say that employers fitting class have been asked to provide for employees, facilities would have a more efficient workers-people regularly felt that the Regulations ment would make for increased In the Service tendance.
1�ourse treatment with citizens that this Council motion, bers not to do so.

Veto of the motion would, I feel, shake the foundation of the in confidence the Government Council.

to the favourable consideration Council.

that has been established and in the Whit.lPy commend the motion of t111s and they will take their place as a whole.

I have said has '3.

right to veto this at­ Civil Servants will not of but I would appeal to hon.
Mem­ and reduce irregular in regard to hospital be given priority efficiency I therefore of "Public but I should that teachers up this position and I would like to know are mcluded in th� of fact, I will until I am told are Government one that should be supported, as regards like to have an explanation paragrnph 5 of the Reisulations.

I want Officers" to hear the definition as against that 0f "Government employees", whether teachers latter term.

As a ma,tter al-ways take c'efinitely employees.


is paid to them comes from Government a1Jd while it is true that there is dual very good thing indeed-I cont,rol-a not think that Government its duty to a body of meil and women who of are serving Government Therefore, they are included Officers" or in the t•,rm "Government employees."

in the interest faithfully and the C0Jony as a whole.

I should like to know whethet Every cent of the money that in the term "Public can neglect do from a principle.
we would bP.

As it goes, feels that with the return of early next yeat-­ Mr. EDUN: I am r1;ally at a loss to know why there should be this hurry t,,) bring forward this very important measure in which, somehow, deviating Government a new Council-perhaps there would be no chance for a measur� of this kind, and therefore the lead at this junct•1re.
doubt about it that I, in my capacity oppose this a Trade Union leader, motion because I expe�t that employees -ordinary would receive the Commissioner to employees made reference from employers, medical J1e forgot to tell this Council that thoae it has taken There is no as receiving perhaps of L0cal Government When the same benefits.

of Government­ employees attention ca.nnot The COLONIAL SE('RETARY: I now in my beg to move the motion standing name.

Mr. CRITCHLOW SP.conded.


The PRESIDENT: The motion has been formally moved seconded by the hon.

Nominated ,i,ncl it has been Meml;>er, 179 Hospital Pees LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ( .A.melt·.)

R eg1.ilcdions 180 are now being re-examined facilities the employers tendency especially do away with the hospiti:l.ls themselves on the part of the employers­ on the sugar plantations-is by tlle and that there.

tu These employers have reached th2 of.

providing for tli.eir employees.


ought to he taken over by in order to relieve the of the responsibility If to say tha:; to continue As a matter of fact, it would be stage where they feel that the sugar estate hospitals Government, estates medical facilities that is so, it would not IJe correct that they are expected service.

that one kind found on the sugar est'.ltes of medical facility for is being provided members of the staff ::ind another kind for the ordinary workers.
member of the staff is ill he gets medical attention at St. Jo.srph's perhaps at the Seamen's but in the case of the ordinary receives an untenable to my mind.

Hospital Ward, P.H.G., worker he in the estate hospital, kind of medical attention Whenever :,, attention or ) ; The whole system of hospitalisation in the morning, a very exce1Jent to such an has deteriorated want to h?

relieved any longer for that of the It to these hospitals.
principle for to their on the estates extent that sugar workers think it best not to go to these h0�pitals and take quinine is all they get whenever they go.

The reason for that is that the estate proprietors expense relating is certainly employers employees, estates ment has been, however, the estate proprietors organisations representing whereby the estate hospitals form to a certain 5ta.ndard Government mention that in order tbat hon.

Members should know the position .


reached between and certain the employees but in the case of the suga:.

: to give medical facilities it is now the reverse.

should take them over.

I An agree­ and th,i,t should con­ fully.

and things like Government ment Officers all so�·ts of monetary facilities-leave passages that-and we would like> to know how much it would be worth to them if we charges from $2 to reduce their hospital As a matter of fact, I $1.50 per day.
to say would have expected "give them free medical facilities".

That would have been going 100 per cent.

in the matter and perhaps the sug·ar estate proprietol'S think Government hospitals provide better medical facilities Knowing the situation employees".

do, it would be irksome for me to vote for this measure because the time has come when this · question of medical in the villag<!s facilities for the residentf of Govern- ought to be the responsibility ment.
would have said "we do not would take over our any longer, rn we ought to for our as I but I am always being more than a thousand of Medical times to of money-:-- that have mo1v•y and that tlle I do not know when this matter would be taken up by Government.

I have pleaded with the Director Services come to a decision, told that it is a question the estates Medical the hospitals could rnn them.
I do not agree with him, but in this case I am willing the measure being put forward; is going to be a condition as a trade unionist regret, howeve1·, at this juncture.

I C8.

"lnot oppose it.

I that I !

'lave to support could not hope to run as cheaply as the estates to support since it of employment Department it Mr. CRITCHLOW: I rise to con­ Government for tabling this gratulate motion and I hope thP.
time is not fa:r distant when we will have a National Health Insurance health of the worker is a very important thing for the progress we get such a scheme I believe worker would give the :Jest possible to his employer.

of a country.

that every Scheme, because th� result If and Govern­ I would be the last man to deny medi­ to Public Officers but I want to ask the cal facilities ment employees, Colonial Secretary be the financial impliclitions-how money it would involve.
things we should know brfore we commit ourselves.

we gave Goven1- Just recently, to tell us what would mucl1 Those are sir.

The PRESIDENT: I hope the hon.

Mr. Edun is not serious in asking Govern­ ment for the cost of this scheme.

I give him that today.

cannot possibly Mr. EDUN: I am nQt pressing for it, 181 Hosvi:ta.t Fees 20 JUNE, :1946.

( ,Amcit.)
( ,Amcit.)

Begulati'ons 182 Mr. JACOB: I intended to speak on of listening to one of the chief but I was hoping to have the of labour in this Colony on it this motion, privilege employers before I spoke.

Unfortunately, the representative and all the oLher Commerce in this Council Elected Members have refused to sg,y anything.

of the Chamber uf howevel', Mr. de AGUIAR: To a point of order; and there­ the debate is not yet ccn,r,leted fore the ho:1.

Member cannot say they have refused to say anything.
11/Ir.

JACOB: I tcok i't that their in drnomim,­ quarters.

Member If that distinc­ those teachers schools are why te�chers of the motion.

I tlnt this motion has meant approval ,%nse of the term.

funds and should be termsd employees".

but he wants to find out whether in ce·:tain teachers in the scheme.

One can under-­ silence surp!·ised am a little in certain found some opposition Perhaps tl!e second NG�inated (Mr. Jackson) is not opposed to the motion, certain.
included stand, however, tional schools are not termed "Public: Officers" in the strict I fully agree with that method of reason-­ ing, but these people are paid wholly from Government "Government tion is not drawn arrainst in non-clenominatio:nal see why it should be dr'twn against in Government -aided schools which are being controlled I feel th::tt tl1is motion has Department.
been delayed far too l0ng, for I have always felt that if it is desired that employees should they should be properly should also be given ce1·tain inclucling think some of the larger firms have been doing this for quite a long time.

Ever since I was connect0d with commercbl another that certain employees pai,'l, expenses hospital also thelr when they were conv,ilcs::ing were paid-pr::ivicling they were expenses good employees.
in one form OL' concerns, medical atte11tion, free, and I .schools, I do not paid and they those I know had all their and sometime;; by the Education give really good service, ,.

positions.

but I !

'>t1ongly docs not like 100 per its prooc,sJ-ls done so for quite a long time.

commend so that bette1· would be afforded to particularly those in It might not oe has already Perhaps Government cent.
efficiency, it for revising medical facilities ·civil Servants, res1Jonsible to pay all the medical fees for possible Government employee::: at the present time, but I shall be wm;ng to support such a proposition employers certainly ·Government private wages-except and I take this opportunity that Government should pay its and wages if employees from them.

it desires does not pa.y as much as firms in regard to salaries and are doing it, Government n is also true that do likewise.
better salqries f,:n· to get better service at any time.

If privatt} for the men at the head­ of repeating shoulri time teachers but at the present I would Mr. LAING: Your Excellency, I am The hon.

ques­ Member, Mr. Jackson, in Your Excellency's were Government I think the reply to that, Sir, an those of this motion to include attached.

Member, Mr. Edun, expressed first like to say how very grateful for the support this motion has received from Members of this Council.
Nominated tioned whether teachers employees.

must be "No".

He may be visualizing extension persons, are not included Message or Regulations Nominated the need of coming to some decisio:1 in treatment reii-ard industry.

connected doubt that he and other Labour leaders are quite capable of seeing that matter through themselves.

Member, Mr. Critchlow, Health Insurance.

National that one day we in Briti;;h financially kind.
That, of course, with this motion, is not strictly and I have no referred to I only hope able to adopt a measure of that The hon.

Nominated to hospital in the Sugar Guiana will be The hon.

The PRESIDENT: I will put the question formally.

Question put, and agreed to.

Motion adopted.


facilitie3 It has been stated J:>y the Commis­ that Govern­ sioner of Local Governmrnt ment does not want to lag behind other in this respect, employers but I think it The PRESIDENT: With Members' permission, I would like to suspend as there is still plenty of time Rules the Standing iS3 /:fop: Estimate LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -Go,vernor 184 :, 1946, Provision Treasurer for May-June, to Members, be approved."
and Orders and ask the Colonial to move his motion "That the Schedule of Additional as circulated If Members would like, however, the Schedule, time to consider meet to-morrow question which Attorney-General-a no other business.

Schedule sine die.

It is up to hon.

Members.


now I would be able to adjourn If Members take this and apart from one I am talking further we would over with the legal point-I have Scheme a railway I can do so by purchasing gen to visit the Land Settlement there, ticket and on returning to reimburse some.

I consider on the cheap side.

I do not like it.

I wonder whether Government to eye with me on this question?

that process me.
that process me.

But that is so cumber­ can see eye is somewhat ask Government The CHAIRMAI'{: I think the hon.

On a motion by Mr. de AGUIAR seconded Rules and Orders were suspended.

by Mr. WOOLFORD the Standing SuPPLEorn.NTARY EsTIMA'rE The Council resolved to consider Committee Provision Additional which had been laid on the table.

cf 194G, for May-June, itself into the Schedule J" GOVERNOR Item 3-Transvort on official visits, $1,500.
Councli quite recently Members of the Executive specified meetings If you give Members a then they can travel on all travelling duties-meetings of Committees of the payment of expenses of Members was It was really the opinion of Member raised this question when the question travelling discussed.

Elected was that Members be that the intention only paid their fares when on of this certain of which Council, they are members and various other duties.

specific ticket seasonal occasions.


Department ,\the expenditure Government t�1at we should it seems a good principle carry on as agreed at the last meeting when it was discussed.

interpreting corrected, free service paid for their journeys for specific purposes.

which can be given some elasticity.


I think I am rights and may be decided and Members be out of and if Department has to pay the Perhaps that is a question has to get its revenue in that direction, but it was definitely The Transport be abolished ancl Harbours Members' that Mr. EDUN: I want some clarification Mr. WOOLFORD: I never thought of state: privilege laid stress from the Depart­ for all services to pay the Transport of this item.

The Remarks attached It has also been •·vote inadequate.
and Har­ necessary rendered bours Department this year."

I think Members of this on the had particularly Council for themselves tickets of seasonal provision of this Services of the Transport in respect Colony.

It was a very convenient for Members to receive ment a Card which was used from 1st January to the 31st December.

That convenience In my own case it was used in the interest of my public duties.
this decision can reconsider Government or advise that Department and instruct issue those tickets again?

It is a very big question Members of this Council.

I think, certain willing The matter in respect and Harbours convenience.

of the Transport is a question Department If I want to go to Vergenoe- to serve but not to pay to serve.

Members said they were I wonder whether The last time, and also that of remuneration to of uf was very much appreciated.
the distinction he and incurs all an opinion on this matter until expressing it was raised by certain Nominated Members.

I have always drawn a distinc­ Members and tion between Nominated is Elected Members, and quite legal and clear.

If a man offers to this Council, himself for election does so on his own volition attaching responsibilities one of which is, if he lives in the country and has to attend the· Council meetings prima facie he intends so at his own expense.
it had become custom for Elected with these Passes, afforded them all the facilities That went on for very many years until some period between one or two years ago when a Committee that he should do Many years ago the and has remained Members to be provided sat and came to a a Sll}all which ticket, of transport.

to the position, ' 185 Snv: Esthncite 20 JUNE, 1946.

-Governor 186 working meetings.


to the attendance of of this Council and I, personally, and Harbours especially from those that the facility I sat on that Committee, would prefer the object Depart­ its policy may have been decision.
but I do not think the view is right that we came to the decision should be limited Members at meetings at Committee having come to that decision to let it remain at that, because of the Transport ment, whatever in the past, is to see that all possible revenue is collected who look forward to its successful and who can pay.
Prima facie it must be assumed that MemlJers of this Council are in a position on whom this new burden is imposed-jf you put an egg in a basket or in your pocket and it is discovered freight.

arisen in that way.

As Vice-chairman the Board I am denied a certain That is only what I have been told, and I do not believe to ask for it in view of the situation that has arisen.

We have not got many months to go before we are either unseated re-elected think that many of us will get that concession.

.
.

hazard about that, because from what I have heard the General Election may be a very long time you have to pay some difficulties have of or not and I do not I am not making an absolute it is true.

I have hesitated to pay far more than those or renominated, privilege.

off indeed.

I believe Mr. JACOB: May I rise to a point of Uon order!

Are we discussing of voters?

the registra e Mr. WOOLFORD: I ask for latitude of as I members.

I privileges of the attitude certain by the Chair to sp:oak.
and Harbours has to say about it.

I agree in question I do not know what the present because I am speaking Members and prospective know I am very much out of order, but I must be allowed have been invited I think most of you have some idea as to how this priviiege can be sustained.

Manager of the Transport Department with the hon.

Member who has spoken.


It may occur that a Member is suddenly called upon to perform a public duty and has no time to get a pass; he therefore pays the fare and like myself would hesitate idea of supplying to be filled in when used is one that is in practice elsewhere.

I do not know there is any other way in which it can be done.

I think the greatest should be '- given Members in facilities travelling.

to ask for a refund.


I think the Members with vouchers latitude for free The CHAIRMAN: Not on account of any delay by Government!

to apply unworthy motives but if it be that Registering Mr. WOOLFORD: This question of and privileges, activity I am afraid, political is quite out of order, but I have taken this opportunity of saying to Members today what has been brought to my notice.
I do not know who the prospective member is, but there is one who is canvassing and has applied for 12,000 registration forms.

I hesitate to such a persun, Officers will give a large number of forms out like that then, I think, direction be given that some limitation on that.

It may be that that is occurring in Georgetown to the country, and some people may not be able to get forms.
Maybe this person is distributing do not want people to do that and prevent the registration should be placed and the habit may spread them all over the place.

We hoped for.

Mr. THOMPSON: I rise to support necessary of this Council.

for this Council.
for this Council.

to go around the country I say that if had not the is not half as good as practical With due respect the Governor the primiple that it should be made possible for Members to travel during the year so as to gain information for the benefit I think it has been accepted that Members can travel from one part of the Colony to another, not for their own personal benefit but to get information You will agree with me that theoretical experience experience.
His Exceilency privilege as he has done, I am satisfied have been able to handle the various problems ing the short time he has been here.

Mem­ bers are not expected what they think.

They must go around the country and see conditions selves, be better placed in obtaining along progressive Council believe privilege around the country are honourable men, and I do not for one moment they will abuse the if they are given passes to go in the way he has done dur­ lines.
Members of this for the benefit of this this Government will to come here to say and as a result information he would not as freely for them­ :, J � 18'?

Snp: Estimate LEGTSLATIVE C'ouNCTL -Q1ieen's College 183 ----;--� --- - - -- to go around be paid his expenses?

of his own volition and should not expect to the country, to this Council.

I think it should be made possible and see any works in connec­ to do so in order that Council.
for any Member, who desires the country tion with he would be able to supply authoritative information not be denied that privilege.

awkward for one to have to pay the fares and wait for a long time in order to get the money back.

I think ,ve are entitled to something better be made possible Council the country as much as they can.

than that.

It should for Members of this He should It is very to get around the remote parts of that.

Mr. JACOB: I am not disputing has been So far such a privilege.
I only raise it now that a decision taken precluding it does not matter.

as I am concerned Hon.

Members will remember that when a plane was placed at my disposal my constituency, this Government I was told when I booked the plane that I would have to pay for its use and I said "Very well."

From the remarks of other hon.

Members it would be seen that a has been created.

hardship which would have cost the off�r.


$300, I refused to visit for the privileges EoucATJOx--QuEEN 's COLLEGE The CHAIRMAN: I must say to hon.

Members who have raised the point Government that I cannot answer for If the without going into it carefully.

views expressed are the views of the majority they discuss bring it up again ii� Council.

of Members, then it is better it between themselves and The CHAIRMAN: We are straying a bit.

I can only reply to the last speaker.


It is up to Members to table a motion and introduce I do not think we something.

can deal with it this afternoon.

Mr. JACOB: May I say a word or two embarrassing Members, rural constituen­ on this matter?

It is a little to Members representing cies to speak on a matter of this kind.
It may have been possible to Members in the past to have extended been abused by certain I do not know, but it seems strange that such Members of this Council are designated with some official rank.

Some interpreta­ tion has been put on some decision by this Council their constituencies have the privilege bit surprised is not quite right.

It is true that a Mem­ ber while on a visit to his constituency on an official mission, for two· or three purposes.

Member for New Amsterdam.


he has to pay now to visit his constituency when he was once given the privilege of travelling operated service.

that even' Members visiting should not continue I am a of free passage.

That to hear of that decision.

is yet he can use it Take the hon.

If he wants free on a Government taken to Mr. WOOLFORD: I can assure the hon.

Member that is not my position.

Mr. JACOB: I am afraid the hon.

Member did not hear me.

Let us take the hon.


Member for Berbice Member for Eastern Berbice.

River or the hon.

The CHAIRMAN: Don't you thi:1k the answer of the Deputy President that an Elected Member joins this Council is correct, Item lm-Part-time Drawing, Engineering $180.

Teacher of service to Queen's to get $3.50 per hour.
and I am to this expenditure, Mr. EDUN: I see it is intended to pay the sum of $3.50 per hour to to the boys in of $1.50 per an Engineer teach engineering drawing the senior forms-an increase hour to Mr. Grace.

I want to tak8 serious objection going to move its entire deletion.
This officer receives a salary of about $230 per month, which works out at $1.10 per hour -28 days per month-and because he is giving some part-time College he is expected This said officer happens to have received education from the public funds of this Colony.

When we expect these young in kind for value men will give something received, we meet up with this kind of money criteria-you pay me to give service-although Guiana Scholar.
is no kind of patriotism these Guiana funds to get their certificates return here and do not expect to give a service to teach other little part-time youths.

One would have expected that this young man would go to Queen's on the part of who use public I hate to think that there in every instance and diplomas, must he is a Scholars, 189 Sup: Estimate 20 Ju�rn, 1946.

-Qneen's College 190 he is getting and teach the boys to know some­ College thing about engineering, but that is not so.
We must pay him and pay him to the hilt; although $1.10 per hour in his substantive $3.50 per hour for such extra service.

can view do not know how Government an arrangement with ·equanimity of this kind.

Is he going to be a teacher, or is the he going to be an engineer Public Works post we must pay him Department?

working for I Mr. THOMPSON: Is this class being conducted outside his official hours?

The CHAIRMAN: Yes; he does it his official hours.


outside (, Mr. de AGUIAR: I wanted to ask whether it is the intention of Governors petuate this class for teaching of Queen's College of the Board to per­ engineering.

The CHAIRMAN: I think the answer r here to is "Yes".

education through to leaders issued the clarion Just a few days ago one of the most in the Caribbean com­ call to duty to.

cultured munities every man receiving public funds by way of Scholarship qualify and return and help his people.
This officer should have returned at all.

serve the people.

I do not like this The time has come when we have to take up a different to serve without all the time.

It gives no example to the common man at all.

I want to move the deletion arrangements of having a teacher class, make this part-time be made.
If it is a question in the interest psychology-the expecting Mr. de AGUIAR: If the answer is is "yes" it seems to me that the proposal one that calls for further If is going to form part of the engineering curriculum it s�ems to at Queen's me that it should be known so that a number of boys could take it up greater if they so desire, and if there is going to be a greater should make proper arrangements teaching point that arises is that it seems to me that engineering a specialist question Am I to understand C. arise.
that the subject is lo College anangement.

be taught at Queen's psychology reward of this item and to ask that proper number of boys Government subject and therefore then get a proper teacher of the but do not examination.

them.

Anotl1er of additional fees should to receive College, for the same is the for The CHAIRMAN: There was much subjects?

scale of fees as that charged for other He has to teach each over this matter.

The officer and in his own time he teaches pupils.


He does not teach discussion cloes a fnll day's work as an officer of his Department seven individual them all together.

one separately for them.

If he had four pupils and the class has grown to eight pupDs it would be literally his work because it is individual instruction, although they do attend a class.

and set separate instruction.

It is not class doubling papers that I would like Members to realise in return-but, to give at the same what the hon.
Member has said is definitely true-that a man who gets a free education from this Colony should be willing something time, we must keep a sense of propcrtion.

We discussed Council that Government Grace to do that work.

He is not bound to do it and if he does not do it the position is that we would have no one else to do it.

a short time ago and the fact is cannot compel Mr. this matter in Executive The CHAIRMAN: The answer is "yes".
We asked Queen's ColJege to charge extra fees and they said they -are going to continue it as part of their curriculum.

Mr. de AGUIAR: I think it is but fair I point which but I have risen to points which I regarcl and it seems to me th.at hon.

should ask hon.

Members that Government what are their views on the subject.

am aware of the fact that the hon.

Mr. Edun has raised an important I had not considered, mention a few more as important Members of this Council should opportunity the situation.
question Governors engineering I main­ of the curriculum tain-and I think I am right-that it is train­ for which special subject a specialist ing is required, and I think that where there are specialist every aspect of I am one of those who of the Board of · of Queen's College that should form part as a subject of the College.

the decision to constder i11 a secondary subjects have an ,\!

'� 191 Sic.p: Estimnte LEGIST,A'l'IVE COUNCH, -Qiiecn's College 192 school special made and special them.
arrangements fees charged should be for teaching in this vote, but I The next thing is that we might have and no one knows where medical classes it would end.

It is not merely a matter of the $180 involved would ask hon.

Members to consider how far this proposal seriously lead.

I invite the consideration of hon.

Members to the point I have made so that we might have a decision leave it entirely of Queen's College subject of the curriculum.
to the Board of Governors of engineering to decide whether the should form part on it and not is going to The COLONIAL TREASURER: That the class, attention sir.

The increase to the students.

is due to is the answer, to give the fact that the officer is required At individual first there were only students attending College Public Works apprentices and the amount has been increased from $2.50 to $3.50 per hour.

In answer to the hon.


Member for Central de Aguiar) I would state that Queen's for the higher candidA.tP.s prepares College and also prepares examinations the First Medical and other examinations.

from Queen's but now the have come in Dcmerara <Mr.

them for The CHAIRMAN : I would not like hon.

Members to do that today, because this matter void and you might be leaving if we take the item out we would lose the instructions.
Mr. JACOB: I do not know whether Advisory could enlighten the Chairman of the Education Committee I remember that the question before the Committee decided the instructions, to $3.50.

increased us on the point.

came up and I think it was to pay a fee of $2.50 per hour for but now it is to be The CHAIRMAN: Owing to an in the number of boys.

increase Mr. JACOB: But $3.50 per hour seems of a extra; salarv.

he receives to be quite a lot of money.


Here is an ofiicer who is asked to do something he is a Guiana Scholar in receipt $2.50 per substantial hour for doing that extra work and now he wants $3.50 per hour.

A rate of $2.50 per hour for an 8-hour day works out at $400 per month, and at $3.50 per hour it works out at $700 per month.

I think concerned the gentleman with the $2.50.

I support the item.
I support the item.

should be satisfied the deletion of Mr. ROTH: I am afraid I cannot follow was being attention and the officer in has increased, that because individual per hour should be increased spent four hours a week with them, is being given and because the the the ai·gument attention number of students remuneration also.

If individual given to four students question if the number ·of students eight he should spend 8 hours per week with them and then his pay would be double.
I do not see the sense in increasing the rate of pay.

If the officer gets more he would have to give them more students paid by the hour time and if he is bei:ig his pay would be automatically is increased increased.

to attention The COLONIAL SECRETARY: It is of individual the officer has to do a not only a question in the classroom; before­ certain amount of p1·eparation hand.

He has to prepare the work that the students, and he ho.s to correct the nature of home-work, sort of thing.
are going to clo the work they do in individually, and all that I I Mr. THOMPSON: We seem to be in of a mess.

Am I to understand If so, I think we should somewhat 1.hAt thP.

d::i.s::; i::; tn bP.

iimitP.d to SP.VP.TI or eight students?

make proper arrangements could boys who want to take up th::: subject come in.

I do not see why tlle time of tl1e officer should be limited number of hours p2r week.
so that all the either to a certain Dr. SINGH: This matter was discussed Committee by 1:he Education reason why the rate is being increased because there are additional be taught and Mr. Grace has to give is that he would give so many hours per The f week, for which he would have to be paid attention individual matter was well considered increase and the is to The CE:AIRMAN: I think the position of $2.50 per hour.

The ;:eas-:>n is that there are more before the · $3.50 instead was suggested.
to each student.

students i ,l for the increase 193 Su,p: Estimate 20 JUNE, 194:G. -Local Govt.l\H and he has to prepare work for students them apart from teaching room.

If he has to take 12 students.

he would have to spend more hours per week apart from the time in his preparation spent in the classroom.

in the class­ Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: Is this <J.mount for the half year, or for the whole year?
The sum of $280 has already this officer and I would like to know whether this $180 is to carry us to the end of the year.

been paid to The COLONIAL TREASURER: It is sir.

for the whole year, Mr. EDUN: In view of the assurance has given I would of the item, but which Your Excellency for the deletion not press " I would ask you to go into the question many questions sir.

It involves carefully, like how many hours per day does this officer work and whether an 8-hour day is to him.
I think we would be applicable creating nature if we continue agree, however.

engaged to teach these engineering apprentices.

that you have given, I would not press for the deletion my motion.

this kind of vote.

i': that someone should he of the item but would withdraw With the assurance of a very serious a precedent The CHAIRMAN: I think all the points The CHAIRMAN: What I will do i.
'l that we pass the item would give the would be done raised are good ones, but if we delete this item we would not get Mr. Grace to do the work.

I suggest now and Government assurance that something later on to see whether we could get an Instructor Engineering I have listened and I appreciate points raised.

for Queen's to all that has been said the force of the various College.

Item passed.

to get in touch with the Director Works and tl1e Principal College, matter with them in Executive Capt.
Nobbs, and discuss the of Public of Queen's Council.

Mr. de AGUIAR: I am willing to accept the matter, I to consicler sir, and as Your Excellency to consider also the to give special apprentices your assurance, has promised would ask Government point whether it is desirable to engineering training· Queen's College apprentices College are firms like Sprostons but I do not train engineering know whether fees have to be paid for the training.

should be trained apprentices, else.


I know thcrn and others which and if so, whether these 01· somewhere at Queen's at Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: So far as these apprentices practical · Department.

are concerned, they are getting training from the Public Works The CHAIRMAN: That is instruction in things like drawing.

Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: That is what I am saying for the benefit of the hon.

Member for Central Demerara.

The from the get practical apprentices but they have Public Works Department, otherwise.
to get technical training training Essmiumo DoYs' ScnooL (J Mr. EDUN: This is a considerable sum; I would like to know what revenue from this school.

is derived The CHAIRl\,fAN: I shall endeavour to find out and let the hon.

Member know.

Item passed.

JJOCAL GovGRNilIEl\''r (E.r:t1aonlina ,r:i1 E.qJCncht,we) Item-Purchase of a Station Wagon .$3,000.

Mr. de AGUIAR: I think the explana-­ that he should go to work waggon.

It is going to be us,�d O!ficer and his staff, tion given here is rather vague.
We are sure as to who is going to use not cruite this station by the Social vVeifare or is it intended in it?

I am not unmindful tions which relate to this matter.

I know a car for that if a Public Gove�·nment the purpose of l,is d;_:t'.es, would give it to him or would give him a allowance.
travelling that Government in sayJ.ng that an officer should have a car of his own, and I clo not think there has been I think I am right Officer requires of the Regula­ always prefers u ]95 Snp: Estimate LEGISLATil"E COUNCIL -Local Govt.

196 an in th\s with a car of their duties, that policy-whereby himself allowance.

of that policy.
of that policy.

It seems to me, that an attempt is being made a reversal however, htre to reverse officer should provide Frankly, travelling and receive I do not I do not like this explanation.

know whether hon.
know whether hon.

Members prefer vellicles to purchase Government form and give them to officers to use in the or whether performance they prefer the other order of things whereby an officer is made to purchase car ancl then given traveiling The next thing we are going to fincl is that the Council funds for the payment of a driver or and , also for the main­ mechanic, tenance of the vehicle.

this vote is not going to stop here-with the purchase think we are going in the wrong· direction.
If the officer has to go about in the per­ formance but do not let us buy a vehicle purpose.

of his duties let him get a car, for that a allowance.

is going to be asked to provide In other words, waggon-and of a station I discussed The CHAIR.MAN: I thought the hon.

with the circum­ I think the Commissioner Member was familiar because stances, .

of Local Government and agreed that it would be elsewhere waggon as bettel' to secure this station With the permission proposed.
Members I would like the Commis3ioner to answer the point of ·Local Government but I do not know whether other raised, hon.

Members would prefer to speak first.

the matte1· of hon.

There are Dis­ sir, as hon.

Members Social Welfare is divided would provide both of these things.

At the present moment, aware, the are probably branch of my Department mainly into two sections.

trict Officers who reside in the districts, and there is an Executive omcers at headquarters.
specialist co-operative stationed that if Social Welfare work is to progress the Executive officers, veyance and keep in touch with the District Officers.

should have some means of con­ to enable them to visit the districts Staff of Welfare There are also Officers and the specialist officers in 4-H Club work and at headquarters.

It is essential and they are also methods, Welfare At present we have to hire vehicles Although and Welfare expenditure.
is being borne by Colonial funds, I feel that that money given to us for for their use at very great cost and I regard that as unnecessary this expenditure Development it is improper of the social the development people should be spent on such unnecessary things as motor car hire and waiting in the districts.
the Specialist fare Officers would be able to go very into the districts frequently with them, and they would be equipment the district able to guide and help in their work as they are expected If I get this station Officers and the Social Wel­ officers to do.

time waggou and take their life of these Mr. EDUN: I do not like the idea of a big waggon running-about the villages with placards It would probably affair.

and all that sort of thing.


look like some gypsy Mr. de AGUIAR: That is something to the point I have raised.

additional The CHAIR.MAN: of Local Government I will call upon the to Commissioner explain the matter.

Mr. LAING: The position in regard for functs for the pur­ to the application chase of a station of efficiency.
and for this Council stand for efficiency economy also, and I think that this vote I know that Memoers of waggon is in the interest At the present time I cannot afford and do their duty properly and that is the reason It would help me to put to send the Executive Officers regularly into the districts for this request.

things on a proper footing and enable officers to travel of having to -without the extravagance for the hire spend money unnecessarily of motor cars and other vehicles.
I know it would be said that they can travel by or 'bus, but that would train, not do.

One hon.

Member says "Let the a car", but I should like officer purchase to remind him that a car costs £501') while the salary of the officer would be £200 per annum if he is a junior officer.

Would it or fair to ask a .iunior officer be reasonable to put his hand into his pocket and pay £500 for a motor car?
or by bicycle I say it would not be fair-it would not be reasonable-to lower income group to do anything ask an officer in the of that • 197 Sup: Estimate 20 JUNE, :t94G.

-Local Govt.

198 to travel.

As regards this of this vehicle, they must have assistance kind.

If the officers are to do their duty from properly, Government the ques­ tion of the maintenance can be met from ihe Social Welfare gnmt.

What I am asking for is the cost of the vehicle.


If this Council says must not have this vehicle send officers into the country districts without my aid", let it be put on record so that there may be no complaint from this Council dit;tricts has been retarded.

bility mu:;t i·est with you-the hon.

!\:(embers of the rural The responsi­ "You and you must that the progress of this Council.

Mr.
Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: I am afraid I givC'n Depart­ by the explanation am not convinced by the head of the Soehl Welfare ment.

It appears to me that the is one which concerns responsibility the officers unless we a1·e going to depart, from the procedure whereby Government officers the proper performance of their dulies.

in a<;quiring are assisted cars for The PRESIDENT: The hon.

Member must have he:i.rd Mr. Laing ask wi1ethe1· we can expect a junior officer earning per annun1 to buy a car.

£200 rdr.
£200 rdr.

PEER BACCHUS: If y_ou do not to buy a car, it might to expect him to do so.

assist a junior officer be unreasonable I clo not see where the argument the case, when Mr. Laing says that the gTant cannot afford him to pay the neces­ sary travelling in the outlying exp(mses disLricLs.

for the Officers supports Mr. LAING: To a point of correction!

That is not what I said.

The CHAIRMAN: Just say what you said?

Mr.


PEER BACCHUS: There may be the to do from waiting , whether it Dividing Are we going expenses.

expenses?

of any welfare of the Department of a station waggon, but still I cannot see that it and doing all that is neces­ expenses which are included necessary the travelling to separate the waiting expenses in the t1·avelling vote into two does not reduce the running expenses be met by a grant or a vote from Colonial I would be very reluctant revenue.
or delay the anything that might hamper progress work in the out­ lying districts, the acquisition maintaining sary to keep that van in running condition, will be anything less in cost than the hire of a car from a garage.

I think this Council would be well advised hiring expenses when it is necessary these officers to get out into the rural districts rather than to acquire maybe in the near future erect a garage and supply it with mechanics and spare parts, etc.
I would rather that the con­ expenses tinue than to ma!

;:e this outlay which at the moment is $3,000.

We may as well add another nought and make the amount $30,000 for hiring cars for travelling to pay the for and be clone.

a van and and pleasure out in the best way possible.
and, for 'but I questions, I have never heard him before a cause so nobly as he did Mr. de AGUIAR: I have had the to the of listening of Local Government in this Council, privilege Commissioner m::iking speeches that matter, answering must confess cl�ampioning today.

Knowing him as well as I do, I that when he spoke he did so realized and with a desire on the subject feelingly to see Social Welfare work in this country carried like the hon.

Member for Western Berbice (Mr.

Peer Bacchus) I still rP-mainer!


to pass this unconvinced vote.

In the course of his remarks refer­ ence was made to the fact that these District other forms of conveyance out their duties.

me to quote · this Government wishes but to make the point that instance, officers of the lower income tax group cannot afforcl to 'buy a car is begging the The point I make, is this: It question.
would be more economical to carry out these duties as at the present Officers use bicycles, of the necessity I do not think the in order to carry until this buses and But Mr. LAING: What I cannot afford to waiting expenses who take the officers from to the rural districts do is to pay the necessary to chauffeurs, headquarters have to wait for them.

We cannot afford to pay the high rates chru-gcd.

districts 'bicycles do not wish the hon.

Member to misquote me.


Officers use their tl1e District In the aml and other means to get about.

I 199 S1ip: Est-imate LEGISLATIVE COUKOIL -Local Govt.

200 I strongly expenditm;e expenditure its plans completely country formulates for social welfare work, when we can of embark on extraordinary operating this kind.
We are at present under a grant vote and, as a Member of deprecate the this Council, that are made from time to time attempts of expenditure in the for the inclusion of this Colony and under Estimates ordinary being carried for Colonial Unless there is specific reason and unless it is in order to complete the object in view, particular we should embark on this expenditure now.
Supposing pleted next year or whenever found that we have no more use for this waggon, what is going to be Government's attitude-sell for work that is out under a special Development when the work is com­ and Welfare.

I do not think it is, it is grant it?

waggon is by those a station I am also satis­ to use bicycles.

by 'bus and bicycle, move.

I am positive for travelling in for them.

It is well and good for those to speak of who reside in Georgetown but you travelling cannot expect the Officers.
who are to go to guide and assist into the rural districts They will not the people, be able to move about as freely and as necessary.

frequently fied that providing an economical that the expenses who have t0 visit these organizations the rural areas would be far less if they have a station hire cars and pay for the waiting A Social Welfare will be able to visit several scattered a waggon at his disposal.

no need to hire a car and pay for waiting hours.


I am quib sure that this method of travelling· quarters to the out-stations and quite necessary.

with.

all my heart, because I am satisfied that the vote will serve a useful purpose and will tend to keep down expenses.

for those who are at head­ and have to pay necessa.ry is an economical I support the vote in a day, if he has There will be waggon than if they are to over a district visits hours.
one I officer from headquarters organizations The CHAIRMAN: If there is no use for it, sell it.

is to too quickly.

Mr. de AGUIAR: I hope it will not be said "We bought it last year for $7,500 and it has to be sold this year for $4,000."

That is what happens when we rush into My suggestion thing·s defer this item and not pass it in Council Social Welfare today.

I am not against work at a.11, Commissioner encourage person to make any suggestion the work.
Does it mean that furnishing waggon is going to improve the a station work that is being done, and i.f it is not had would it impede progressi I am not satisfied about and I would like to assure the about that.

I wish to the work.

I would be the last to retard that.

to Social Welfare work.


in this the rise to support that I am satisfied Mr. JACKSON: I vote asked for, because it will be money well spent and it will be The of service Social Welfare Organization Colony is young and needs the guidance and help of those who are at the head of affairs.
I know how difficult in the rural districts, who are supposed Welfare work is carried on properly are to visit, centres visit the various if they are to perform their duties satisfac­ torily, it is to travel and if the officers to see that this Social and there is need for them to and then travelling should be made easy periodically, to too, for I heartily the on the congratulate should this Council of Local Government The Social Welfare Depart­ that I am satisfied value to the Mr. THOMPSON: I must admit that the last speaker has stolen my thunder completely.
Commissioner defence he has put up.

I am support­ ing that item because it will 'oe of an economical Department.

ment has been under fire, rigidly some time.

If now is the opportunity improve conditions why stand in the way of the Officer who has If we were to think of asked that much?

to 'be covered in the the distance we would realize rural districts, out in the morning you can starting cover a far greater distance number of officers can be taken up and here and there on the route.
They dropped can cover the whole of the East Coast Demerara and the West Coast Berbice in a day with one car and return to head­ But taking them by car is a quarters.

bigger item of expenditure.

that a station Welfare Department value economically am supporting waggon given to the Social the item with all my heart.

will be of imme!lse and otherwise, I do agree by car.

A that and I 201 Ffop: Estimate 20 JUNE, 1946.

-Loo((.l Govt.
-Loo((.l Govt.

202 Mr. JACOB: I am not disappointed the in fact I would at the last two speeches; expect them to support passionately I .,till part of the Social Welfare Officers.

to the Com­ maintain after listening missioner be uneconomical to waggon, provide it with a chauffeur like those.

I am not too sure that the gasolene for.


accounted of Local Government purchase it with gasolene, and other things will 'be properly a station provide and a garage and things that it will The CHAIRMAN: I do not think the hon.

Member is right!

Mr. JACOB: I say, I am not too .,ure.

ti .. of the affair expressed.


that whatever Development work in going around the districts and all It the very many bad opinions has been said, sir, that the salaries Given I•' to the Officers connected with this Depart - ment eat up the whoie substance Social Welfare fund.
It is not only being said in this Colony but it is a current throughout the Carfbbean, funds come here for Colonial and Welfare will be wasted in the salaries to Officers For that reason I am going to be pn:.ctical and I am going to take the Commis�ioner at his word and aliow him to spend $3,000 for a station a chance to retrieve Social Welfare Department Colony.

I think that is the wisest course to adopt in this case.

I would ask the hon.


Member for Central Demerara (Mr. de Aguiar) and the other Members who spoke against waggon in order to give him the bad name the the item to give Mr. Laing a chance.

with the Department.

has got in this connected The CHAIRMAN: Never look on the worst side of things!

Mr. JACOB: No, sir.

I do not think interest very often and I the progress problem in all the Curib­ I vi�it the districts more than Mr. Laing does.

in British with of Social Bias and things like those completely.
Social Welfare work should be unde!

'tal;;en as an economic bean Colonies, and particularly Guiana.

Nevertheless I am watching considerable Welfare work in this Colony.

I hope it will not share the same fate as the Agricultural I am not which have failed opposed to granting some amount from our funds for the hire of a car so as to see that this worl{ is carried on economically.

It is That is the point I wish to stress.


being stressed of Local Government with Local Government that connected this thing will be economical.

It will not be.

It will be far more economical a vehicle than to purchase a vehicle known whether the work will be continued after the vote has been exhausted.

If the for a longer time work would be continued than five years is another matter.

I do not think Government $3,000 now and a great more later in the running of this waggon.
hear, perhaps, It is said, the elephant has large ears but cannot hear what is being said of him.

Perhaps the Head of the Social Welfare Department does not hear these things.

I think a Station Waggon would be con-­ venient in this sense - beating up enthusiasm about Social meetings in the districts Officers could go there in numbers to �al.k a'bout those things.

To educate you must have mobility.


my association order to beat up enthusiasm, Head of this Department us give him, but let us scr:;,.p the other loud speater project.

practical.

Knowing Mr. Laing as I do from my contact with him, he will not misiead He knows what he is about.

Let him get this waggon and show us what his officers will do.
to hire when wanted and pay for the hire by the Commissioner and the two Members in and if the waats $3,000 let is wise in spending The CHAIRMAN: I think we have sufficiently.

In my own case the subject I want to be when it is not Welfare, the people so that the holding I shall this Council.

ventilated put it to the vote.

must get transportation I do not want to be sentimental.
Mr. EDUN: Having listened to the very appeal of the Commissioner impassioned of Local Government-I him so very sentimental going to be sentimental all that I have heard about Social Welfare have never found as today-I am be practical.

like him, having regard I am not going to ·to Question put, and agreed to.

Item passed.

The Council resumed and adjourned day at 2 p.m. until the following I l