Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697719747001.pdf (Botswana)
THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 11 FEBRUARY 2022 MIXED VERSION HANSARD NO: 205 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon.

Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP.

DEPUTY SPEAKER Hon.

P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP.

(Tonota) Clerk of the National Assembly Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly Learned Parliamentary Counsel Assistant Clerk (E) His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP.

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP.


(Boteti West) CABINET - President - Vice President - Ms B. N. Dithapo - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe - Advocate L. O. Tlhowe - Mr R. Josiah Hon.

K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP.

(Molepolole South) - Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

K. T. Mmusi, MP.

(Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon.

Dr L. Kwape, MP.

(Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon.

K. K. Autlwetse, MP.


(Specially Elected) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon.

K. S. Gare, MP.

(Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

P. K. Kereng, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism Hon.

Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP.

(Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon.

T.M.

Segokgo, MP.

(Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon.

K. Mzwinila, MP.
K. Mzwinila, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Hon.

T. M. Rakgare, MP.

(Mogoditshane) - Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development Hon.

A. M. Mokgethi, MP.

(Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon.

P. O. Serame, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon.

F. M. M. Molao, MP.

(Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Hon.

Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP.


(Tati East) Hon.

L. M. Moagi, MP.

(Ramotswa) - Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology - Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security Hon.

M. Kgafela, MP.

(Mochudi West) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

M. R. Shamukuni, MP.

(Chobe) - Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development Hon.

E. M. Molale, MP.

(Goodhope-Mabule) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development Hon.
D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP.

(Gaborone South) - Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

S. N. Modukanele, MP.

(Lerala -Maunatlala) Hon.

T. Monnakgotla, MP.

(Kgalagadi North) Hon.

M. M. Pule, MP.

(Mochudi East) Hon.

M. S. Molebatsi, MP.


(Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

S. Lelatisitswe, MP.

(Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness Hon.

N. W. T. Makwinja, MP.

(Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education Hon.

B. Manake, MP.
B. Manake, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

H. B. Billy, MP.

(Francistown East) Hon.

A. Lesaso, MP.

(Shoshong) - Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES Names Constituency Hon.

L. Kablay, MP.

(Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon.

Dr U. Dow, MP.

Hon.


P. Majaga, MP.

Hon.

M. Balopi, MP.

Hon.

J. S. Brooks, MP.

Hon.

C. Greeff, MP.

Hon.

T. Letsholo, MP.

Hon.

T. F. Leuwe, MP.

Hon.

T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP.

Hon.

Dr T. Matsheka, MP.

Hon.

S. N. Moabi, MP.

Hon.

P. K. Motaosane, MP.

Hon.

O. Regoeng, MP.

Hon.

J. L. Thiite, MP.


Specially Elected Nata-Gweta Gaborone North Kgalagadi South Gaborone Bonnington South Kanye North Takatokwane Gaborone Central Lobatse Tati West Thamaga-Kumakwane Molepolole North Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon.

D. Saleshando, MP.

(Leader of the Opposition) Hon.

M. G. J. Motsamai, MP.


(Opposition Whip) Maun West Ghanzi South Selebi Phikwe West Mahalapye East Sefhare-Ramokgonami Ngami Okavango Maun East Bobonong Selebi Phikwe East Palapye Nkange Mahalapye West Francistown West Hon.

D. L. Keorapetse, MP.

Hon.

Y. Boko, MP.

Hon.

Dr K. Gobotswang, MP.

Hon.

C. K. Hikuama, MP.

Hon.

K. K. Kapinga, MP Hon.

G. Kekgonegile, MP.

Hon.

T. B. Lucas, MP.

Hon.

K. Nkawana, MP.

Hon.

O. Ramogapi, MP.

Hon.

Dr N. Tshabang, MP.

Hon.

D. Tshere, MP.

Hon.


M. I. Moswaane, MP.

Hon.

T. S. Khama, MP.

Hon.

L. Lesedi, MP.

Hon.

B. Mathoothe, MP.

Hon.

M. Reatile, MP.

(Botswana Patriotic Front) Serowe West Serowe South Serowe North Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon.

W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.
Francistown South (Alliance for Progressives) TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 11th FEBRUARY, 2022 CONTENTS PAGE (S MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME........................................................................................................................1-8 STATEMENT Review of the Constitution.....................................................................................................................................9-13 MOTIONS Commission of Enquiry to Investigate the Nature and Extent of Corruption, Economic Crime, Mismanagement, Maladministration and Unethical Governance in Public Institutions Motion.......................................................................................................................................................14, 28-34 Transformation of Botswana Television (BTV) and Radio Botswana (RB1 and RB2) from State Broadcasters (State Controlled) to Public Broadcasters Motion (Resumed Debate)..............................................................................................................................14-27 Friday 11th February, 2022 THE ASSEMBLY met at 9:00 a.m. (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) P R A Y E R S * * * * MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY THEME: BCL LIQUIDATION: PREMIUM NICKEL RESOURCES (PNR) EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS MR D. L. KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): Thank you Mr Speaker, good morning to you and good morning to Honourable Members.
Ke dumedisa gape le Batswana.

Mr Speaker, the question before us is on BCL Group of Companies liquidation, in particular on Premium Nickel Resources (PNR) exclusive rights or finalisation of the deal.

Mr Speaker, we all know that BCL Group of Companies have been put under liquidation since 2016, and Parliament has been periodically briefed or updated in most cases through questions such as this one.
This is another call from Selebi Phikwe residents to be updated through Parliament on the latest information on liquidation of BCL.

In particular I would like the Minister to update us on the following; • Can the Minister explain the conclusion of the exclusivity period and the consequent signing of the purchase agreement and fulfilment of the transactions by the parties, including receipt of regulatory approvals?
• Honourable Speaker, now that the PNR Botswana has finalised the acquisition of Selebi and Selebi North, can the Minister update this Honourable House on the value of the assets, and/or how much they have been sold for?

Ke bokae dithoto tse di rekisitsweng?

• Can the Minister provide clear timelines on when production is likely to start and when new jobs, besides the ones that we have on care and maintenance, will be coming, and the sort of skills that will be needed in the immediate medium to long term?
What is the value of investment that PNR seeks to put into the mine and their general business model, including the estimated tonnage of nickel and its credits concentrate expected to be exported stating clear timelines?

Re batla go itse gore gatwe go bulwa leng?

Moepo o bulwa leng, motho wa ntlha o a go hiriwa leng?

Ke dife dithuto tse di yang go tlhokagala?


The said PNR deal is possibly the major one on BCL liquidation, so the Minister should explain or update Parliament on the closure or exit plan on liquidation, surely this process cannot go on forever.

It has to end sooner rather than later because it has been a burden on the fiscus as I have indicated before.
• Are we considering a local liquidator to manage the remaining assets at a marginal costs than the current and previous one, although the previous one was a local?

• The appointment of Trevor Glaum, lawyer based in Cape Town, does it mean we do not have native Batswana who can be appointed liquidators?

What qualifications and experience are required for one to be a liquidator or one to be in charge of such a magnitude of liquidation?

Does it mean that Batswana do not have these qualifications?
What sort of qualifications, experience, that are required?

• On the joint ventures that BCL had with third parties, and these are quite many Mr Speaker, why is the liquidator still holding on the BCL stake and not negotiating and possibly releasing the interest to enable investment and job creation through development of the licences into mines?
I am mindful of, the Majwe Diamond, I am not sure if it is prospecting licence number eight, the Minister will correct me, but I know that BCL has interest in the Majwe Diamond and Maibele.

There is Maibele near Tobane.

Are there other interests Minister which you know of, which you can update Parliament on involving third parties?
• Related to this Honourable Speaker, the Minister should explain the snail pace in getting other assets acquired, especially by Batswana ba ga rona ba sekei, e seng Batswana ba ba ikopetseng go nna Batswana, jaaka Tautona Dr Masisi a kile a bua?

• Can the Minister provide BCL group of companies asset register, can he publish it for Batswana to consider which ones they can procure for commercial 1 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME endeavours?
Re batla go itse gore dithoto tse BCL e nang le tsone ke dife, a o ka di phatlalatsa ra di bona, Batswana ba di bona, ba itse gore ba ka ithekela dife ba ya go iteka?

• How many Batswana or Botswana registered companies owned by citizens have expressed interest on the slag and tailings?

What is the estimated value and volume of the slag and tailings, are there Batswana who have requested a few kilogrammes sample for test-work and what has been the response?
Here I should indicate Honourable Speaker that I have met a few Batswana who are complaining about the current liquidator who is not accessible.

Sometimes he refers batho to other law firms locally, sometimes he gives answers which shows that he does not have the plight of Batswana at heart.
• On the associated cost of liquidation the Minister should update Parliament on whether the supreme audit institutions or any credible independent audit firm has audited the liquidation process, especially given that it is funded by the tax payer.

How do we ensure financial accountability?


How much has been paid towards the process, from the fiscus, what has been the cost of housing maintenance since the facility management company took over, and how has maintenance been compared to when it was done in-house?

Can the Minister confirm the veracity of claims that the facility management company, basically is paid hefty amounts of money whilst occupied and unoccupied houses are getting more and more dilapidated?
Why was there a need to outsource this service at exorbitant cost, when we could have done this in-house?

• We understand that there is a settlement of the legal issue between Government and Norilsk, Honourable Moswaane would know this as a Former Chair of the Finance and Estimate Committee.
Norilsk debt was cited by the Government as a reason for BCL liquidation, a spark of some sort akin to the Sarajevo incident, assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand which led to First World War, so Norilsk debt was cited as some kind of a Sarajevo incident.

So what are the terms of the settlement or agreement and the cost to Government, has the initial money budgeted for and approved by the 11th Parliament being used for the purpose, and if not the Minister need to explain this issue?
• The Minister should update us on the expatriate at BCL Care and Maintenance, how many have been employed or provided services as consultants since liquidation, and how much has been paid towards engaging their labour and services?

• The Minister should confirm if there are still aliens working at BCL and state their qualifications, particularly whether there is a 64 year old Polish, whose permit was renewed late 2021 or thereabout?

• What are his qualifications?


Are they unique in a way and is he uniquely experienced, and whether there are no Batswana who can do these jobs?

What has been the state of industrial relations and BCL care and maintenance?

Is the Minister aware of allegations of sour industrial relations, including unfair dismissal?

Ka bokhutshwane potso ke yone eo ya gore moepo o bulwa leng Honourable Minister, batho ba tlaa hirwa leng, go diragala eng kwa care and maintenance?
Ke a leboga MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR MOAGI): Thank you very much Mr Speaker and good morning.

Good morning to Honourable Members and listeners everywhere.

As you can see Mr Speaker, this is what I call SOBA (State of BCL Address).

It was steamed to me but now there is a whole lot more.

So we will give you the good shot and see how they go about it.
I had intended to speak in the vernacular but I will rather just stick to English and then perhaps later on, we can do some of the questions in vernacular.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to update Parliament on the on-going BCL liquidation exercise.
Exclusivity Period to PNR BOTSWANA and Progress to date: (PNR BOTSWANA) On March 24, 2021, Premium Nickel Resources a Botswana Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with the Liquidator for a six-month exclusivity period to conduct a due diligence exercise and afford the parties time to complete the formalities and agreements required for the sale of the assets.
completed On September 28, 2021, PNR BOTSWANA and the Liquidator jointly announced that they had executed a definitive Asset Purchase Agreement (APA) through which PNR BOTSWANA would acquire Selebi and 2 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME Selebi North nickel-copper-cobalt assets (together referred to as “Selebi Mines”) and related infrastructure.
This agreement set the terms & conditions to complete all conditions precedent for the final transfer of the Selebi Mines from the Liquidator to PNR BOTSWANA.

On February 9, 2022, PNR BOTSWANA and the Liquidator announced that they had closed the asset purchase agreement transaction, where all conditions precedent under the Selebi APA were fulfilled by the parties, thus confirming the final asset sale of the Selebi Mines to PNR BOTSWANA.
The gross proceeds, and I must note before that that the agreement as between BCL and the purchaser is subject to confidentiality provisions and some of the details may not be disclosed without the consent of both parties.

The gross proceeds therefore, calling on that of Selebi and Selebi North shafts is P 770.21 million.

Selkirk Mine has been sold for P66.97 million.

PNR BOTSWANA has committed to pay P 337.87 million now and the balance when they start production.
The Liquidator has entered into an agreement with a buyer to sell the Copper-Nickel matte to the company after competitive bidding for P100 million.

This matte remained as part of production at the time of BCL closure and the sale of scrap and non-core assets raised P6 million, comprising of movable assets such as vehicles.
Terms of the Value of the Assets sold: The extent of the resource that has been purchased by PNR is not known and it is an integral component of the transaction that PNR BOTSWANA is obligated to fund a significant prospecting and drilling programme as an initial step towards opening the mine, which is expected to cost approximately P300 Million.

Joint Venture Disposals (Prospecting Licences) All BCL joint ventures were assets included in the disposal process and have ultimately been won by PNR BOTSWANA.
PNR BOTSWANA had the right of first refusal in respect of the interests held by BCL in joint ventures and chose not to exercise that right.

All remaining BCL assets are for sale and will form part of such disposal process going forward.
Care & Maintenance and Rehabilitation: The Liquidator has been contracted by PNR BOTSWANA to continue doing care and maintenance for the next 6 months whilst PNR BOTSWANA mobilises for development of the asset, and a long term solution for care and maintenance is being discussed.

PNR BOTSWANA will effect payment to BCL in the sum of P69 million, being PNR BOTSWANA’s contribution to BCL for the costs of care and maintenance during the exclusivity period enjoyed by PNR BOTSWANA leading to the closure.
The rehabilitation liability which adhered to the Selebi Mines has been negotiated by the Liquidator with PNR BOTSWANA (and confirmed by the Director of Mines) as being P42 million.

This equates to a saving to Government of Republic of Botswana (GRB) in due course in the region of P428 million.

Timelines: The timeline is as follows; Obviously PNR is acquiring new assets which have not been mined before.
• The agreed exploration period is for 3 years with the right to extend where they have found any other resources to validate.

This time is required given that the management of BCL prior to liquidation, chose not to ascertain the extent of the mineral resource and PNR BOTSWANA as an initial step to do so.

Close to 100 jobs will be created immediately by PNR BOTSWANA in terms of their prospecting and drilling programme and the P300 million which will be injected into the local economy.
• Upon the completion of the exploration period and it being successful, PNR BOTSWANA has undertaken to expend approximately P5 billion to construct new mining infrastructure at Selebi.

It is envisaged that further hundreds of jobs will be created.

• Upon completion of the construction and opening of the new mine for production, further hundreds of additional mining jobs will be created.

This is now moving into production.


• In respect of skills, all forms of mining, engineering, construction and soft skills expertise will be required.

Opportunities will be both direct, indirect, as well as in the support services.

We are convinced this will also lead to the renaissance of the Selebi Phikwe economy, and by extension the neighbouring villages.

Disposal of Remaining Assets: The assertion that the PNR BOTSWANA transaction is the sole significant transaction is not correct.
The Liquidator aims to sell the remaining assets of BCL over 3 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME the next 6 months.

He is presently engaged in the next round of disposals of BCL and Tati assets which will have the effect of recovering significant funds for the estate and the rejuvenation of other economic activities.
Such assets include the remaining Phikwe Mines comprising of two shafts, smelter, concentrator, tailings dam, slag dumps, open pit, workshops, training centres and labs.

Non-mining assets to be disposed of include the hospital, office block, housing units and a farm amongst others.

The remaining Tati assets associated with Phoenix Mine will also form part of the disposal process now being embarked upon.
It was necessary that the conclusion of the first sale was concluded to financial close such that the disposal process of the remaining assets starts in earnest in March 2022.

All persons or interested parties will be invited by a formalised process, be it advertisement in papers so that they can have the right to bid to acquire assets on offer.

(i) BCL Asset Register The BCL asset register is not a public record but confidential to the company.
In terms of the Companies Act, the liquidator is prohibited from disclosing same.

As set out above, all remaining assets will be offered to bidders in March 2022 and all persons shall have the right to participate in the process.

Given that the process is currently being undertaken, once bids have been received, we will be in a position to understand citizen participation in the process.
We have also expressed to the liquidator that part of the criteria must be for citizens being the one acquiring these assets at BCL.

With specific reference to the slag and the tailings dam, these are assets which are being offered for sale by the liquidator.

So, they will just go into the bag, and anybody interested will have to bid for them.

(ii) Litigation A settlement was made with Norilsk Nickel in October 2021 which saw Government pay approximately USD 51 million.
This is part of the money that was set aside by Parliament way back, and it was used for that purpose.

We regard this as a successful conclusion pursuant to which a savings to the fiscus of a sum P2.4 billion was done.

In terms of the written settlement agreement between Norilsk, BCL, BCL Investments, Tati and Attorney General representing Government of the Republic of Botswana (GRB), all litigation between Norilsk and BCL, BCL Investments, Tati and Attorney General, has been fully and finally resolved.
This means (and against payment of the settlement proceeds) settlement of the London proceedings; withdrawal of the reckless trading action against former BCL Directors by Norilsk; and the withdrawal of South African review proceedings by the Liquidator.

(iii) BCL Houses GRB is presently renting accommodation to over 1,100 miners who lost their jobs when BCL was placed under liquidation at a significant cost to the fiscus.
The claim that fees paid to the Facility Manager and that houses are becoming dilapidated under the watch of the liquidator, is unfounded.

The liquidator has expended significant funds on improving the conditions of the residential properties and their maintenance.

GRB has to date paid P62.2 million on rentals.

(iv) Employment at BCL Out of a work force of approximately 481 people, only five expatriates are employed representing just over a percent of the work force.
The expatriate being referred to as a 64-year old Polish, is a highly competent employee and a key member of the work force.

He is both uniquely experienced in the operations of the BCL mine with relevant academic qualifications, and his employment was necessary in the execution of the liquidator’s mandate.

(v) Engagement of the Liquidator In respect of the actions of the liquidator, we wish to categorically state that we have faith in the ability of the present liquidator.
The question is misguided in that liquidators’ fees are set in terms of the Companies Act and the liquidator’s fees were approved in terms of the same Act.

There is no marginal cost of liquidation.

The liquidator’s fees are approved in terms of each estate as governed by the Companies Act, and the process with regard to BCL was no different.

In the event a new liquidator was to be appointed, and we do not agree that at this point it is necessary, the cost would be prohibitive.
The first Liquidator of BCL was born and raised in Botswana as a citizen.

When he chose to step down, a process to appoint a new liquidator was undertaken, and Batswana professionals were approached to take the position, and none of the people approached was willing to accept the engagement.

The present liquidator is eminently qualified, and has vast experience in not only winding up complex estates such as BCL, but also in cross-border legal disputes of which BCL was involved.
4 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME I am advised that the qualifications of a liquidator is a matter for the High Court and the Master, and are scrutinised prior to any appointment.

(vi) Liquidation Accounts The accounts of the liquidation process are governed by the provisions of the Companies Act, and ultimately regulated and taxed by the Master of the High Court.
Mr Speaker, I believe that this is an overview of the questions from the Honourable Member, and I may take supplementations where maybe I did not meet some of his questions.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): The two questions have been allocated equal times, and the time for this one is up.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re ka thusa Mr Speaker, ka gore Mme Serame ga a arabe e, o araba e e latelang.

MR SPEAKER: Okay, then we are okay.


MR KEORAPETSE: Ke lebogela karabo eo Tona.

Tota e e motlhofo e Batswana ba batlang go e utlwa sentle gongwe o e tlhalosa, ke yone ya gore tota moepo o bulwa leng.

Ke utlwile fa o bua ka timelines gore exploration e tlaa tsaya three years, go bo go iwa kwa stage se sengwe go bo go iwa kwa go se se latelang.

Letsatsi fela le e leng Batswana ba ka le bolelelwa gotwe nnyaa mme tota moepo o butswe jaanong le ka simolola go iteka lesego mo go batleng ditiro, ke leng?
Potso eo ke yone ya mmammane e e leng gore Batswana ba batla gore ba e utlwe.

Potso e nngwe e e latelang Mr Speaker, ke ne ke utlwa motlotlegi mo karabong ya gagwe e kete o e baya gore Selibe and Selibe North ke mines tse dintsha, ke re nnyaa mme kana di ne di ntse di na le production, e ka nna fela gore some other parts tsa tsone di ne di ntse di se mined.
Se ke neng ke batla go se itse ke gore, kana the bidders tse dingwe besides Premier Nickel Resources, ba ne ba le ready gore ba ka reka moepo o otlhe le sengwe le sengwe se se leng teng.

Jaanong motho o ka ipotsa gore ke eng fa le ne kgetha yo e e leng gore o tlaa reka bontlha bongwe jwa dithoto tsa BCL a sa di reke tsotlhetsotlhe?

Ke ne ke re ke itse yone eo ka gore ke a tlhomamisa gore ba bangwe maikaelelo a bone ene e le gore ba ne ba ka tsaya dithoto tse tsotlhe.
Tona, ke utlwa o re gore go bo go na le former miners ba ba nnang mo mantlong, gone moo is of great cost to the fiscus, but ke dumela gore ke with a great benefit to the fiscus because those houses re hemile gore di gonngwe ke magodu ka gore batho ba bo ba nna mo go tsone.

Re le batho ba Selibe Phikwe, re bo makatane ba ba sa duelweng, ba mantlo ao gore a se ka a wa, a se ka a utswiwa ke magodu.
Jaanong potso e ke batlang go e botsa fa ke gore, le duetse bokae to facility management company fa le sena go emisa gore maintenance o dirwe in-house?

Ke bua se ka gore batho ba a ngongorega gore mantlo a dilapidated mme ba nna mo go one, e bile go ne go le botoka nako e go neng go dirwa maintenance in-house.

Jaanong ke batla go itse gore wa re ba duetswe bokae.

Mo go ya liquidator ke ne ke re o re tlhalosetse rraetsho gore wa re le duetse bokae the previous liquidator le wa gompieno o duelwa bokae?
Madi ao ke tsaya gore ka gore a duelwa ke Batswana, ga e ka ke ya nna sephiri.

Wa re go na le Batswana who were approached gore ba nne liquidators, ke bomang?

Go na le ba re kopanang le bone who were not approached, mme ba dumela gore tiro e ga se gore ke tiro ya sepe e e ka yang go batlelwa motswakwa yo o based kwa Cape Town.

Gongwe o re tlhalosetse tsone tse Honourable Minister.

Mo go ya Norilsk e le ya bofelo ke gore, Norilsk e duetswe bokae?

Initially Parliament had budgeted 51 million US Dollars.
A ke one madi a ba a duetsweng kgotsa ba duetswe a a fetang foo kana kwa tlase ga foo?

Ke bokae madi ao?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MOAGI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke leboge Honourable Keorapetse ka dipotso tseo.

Moepo o bulwa leng?

Rre Keorapetse, moepo o tlaa bulwa morago ga dingwaga tse tharo tseo, e le full production, ka fa o batlang karabo ya teng e tlhotlhoma ka teng.
Ga e ise e ko e fitlhege, re buile se kwa Phikwe kwa khanseleng, le mo Kgotla meetings tsotlhe tse re di dirileng teng.

Kana go bula moepo, o simolola o dira tse di tshwanetseng gore o tle o tsene in production.

Meepo e a bulwa jaaka gompieno go bulwa moepo kwa Gantsi, kwa Tshukudu Metals.

Already there are a thousand people involved in the construction of that mine.
Jaanong go tswa fela gore re tlhaloganyana jang gore pulo ya moepo re raya eng, a re raya o setse o ntsha kopore kana re raya o simolola go ipaakanyetsa go ntsha?

Le gompieno jaana jaaka Premium Nickel Resources (PNR) jaanong e tlaabo e simolola moepo, go na le batho ba ba yang go hirwa.

Ke supile palo ya 5 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME 100 kgantele, e ba tlaabong ba tsena mo go yone that drilling and prospecting programme, ke nngwe ya tsone tseo.
Go na le associated industries tse di tlaabong di tsweletse ba ntse ba di dira go tswelela jalo.

Gape re solofetse gore economic activity yone mo Phikwe, e tlaa simolola ka gore assets tse dingwe tse di setseng kwa Phikwe, di tlaa rekwa ke ba bangwe.

Go na le ba ba tlaa rekang dumps tseo, ba reka eng, ba bo ba simolola much faster than fa o prospect for minerals.
Ke dumela gore eo kgang, e tlaabo e ntse e bolelwa ka gore ba tlaabo ba hira, mme e bile ba advertise gore batho ba itse gore moepo o bulwa leng.

Rra, Selebi le Selebi North, e ne e se gore ke raya gore ga di ise di bereke, ke raya gore pereko ya teng, e ne e sa tshwane le jaaka go ne go na le full production mo shafts tse dingwe tse.

Ke supe gore kana e ne e se gore they are fully explored, di ne di sa dutla mo go feteletseng.
Ke teng fa PNR e itsheegileng teng, gore e tlaa di dupa ka gore ba bona gore di bogadi bo gaufi, gore e tle e kgone go thusa lenaneo la tsone la go bula mine oo.

E bile ba dumela gore ke tsela e e ka ba tlisetsang maduo ka bonako.

Kana le fa period e supilwe gore e ka nna three years, anything can happen within those three years gore ba dire ka bonako, e seng go feta three years yoo.

Go supegile jalo rra, kana go rekisiwa ga BCL Mine, e ne e le a competitive bidding e dikompone di neng di phadisana.
Di ne di supa gore rona re ka reka eng, ra se ka ra reka eng.

E bile mongwe le mongwe o ne a letlelesega gore a o e tsaya yotlhe ka bophara kana o tsaya fa a bonang gore ene o ka dira teng.

E le gore gape a supa mo go yone ikopelo ya gagwe gore o tla ka eng, go bo go sekasekwa se a se supileng ka nako eo.

Ka jalo, go ne go lebeletswe tsone tse di supegileng ka nako eo gore, ke tlaa bula jaana, mme ke reka gape ka madi a bokana.
E seng e e leng gore gongwe o ne o supa gore wena o batla go tsaya dithoto tseo tsotlhe fela mahala, ka ntlha ya gore o ya go tsenya madi fela fa o setse o tlhabolola gore o tle o bule mine.

Ke rata golo foo go utlwala sentle thata ka gore go ne go na le ba ba batlang go tsaya dithoto tseo tsotlhe mahala.

Maikaelelo a bone e le gore ba tlaa tsenya madi fa ba tlhabolola gore ba tle ba bule meepo.
Whereas ba bangwe bone ba ne ba supa gore nnyaa, le ntswa ke ya go tsenya madi, mme madi a ke setseng ke a supa gone jaana, ke a, ke bokana.

Then there was a criteria that was independently evaluated, e e neng e supa go ya ka criteria e e neng e beilwe, ke bone ba ba neng ba tlhokafala gore ba ka bo ba tserwe.

Ke criteria fela e e neng e le transparent, mme e bile monate wa teng ke gore kana dilo tse tsotlhe di dirwa mo tlhokomelong ya ga the Master and Registrar of the High Court.
Ka matlo a BCL rra, o bua sentle, that is why ke re go ne go le botlhokwa gore Goromente a tsenye letsogo gore matlo a se ka a tsalela bommamanthwane.

Re leboga batho ba ba neng ba nna mo matlong ao.

Fa ke bua ka cost to the fiscus, gakere fa e ne e le gore go ne go na le kompone e e setseng e rekile, babereki ba yone ba ka bo ba ituelela rent eo.

Jaanong rent eo, e ne e tswa mo go Goromente, mme re sa ikotlhaele seo re le Goromente, ka ntlha ya gore re ne re itse gore matlo a tlaa babalesega.
Tla ke go bolelele sengwe se gongwe o ka tswang o sa se itse sentle, le tlhokomelo ya matlo ao, re ne re e beile gore, fa jaanong o neetswe ntlo gore o ka nna mo go yone, tlhokomelo e tshwanetse gore e bo e le ya maemo a ntlha.

Go na le vandalism e e neng e direga, e lebelelwa fela ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, mo e leng gore at some stage le go fetola bulb tota, motho a feletswe ke bulb a re a tle go fetolelwa bulb.
It does not happen anywhere, le fa o hirisa ntlo ya gago ya Botswana Housing Corporation (BHC), o iphetolela bulb le dilo tse dingwe tse di diragalang.

Fa o thubile pipe ya metsi, you must foot to the bill, ke yone kgang e e teng.

Jaanong foo ga re a tshwanela go go mpampetsa, re tshwanetse go supa fela gore fa o neetswe tlhokomelo ya ntlo… ke eng matlo a mangwe a siame, a mangwe a sa siama, mme a tshwana fela otlhe?

Ke sone se re se buang seo.

Ya bofelo ya Batswana, tla ke ikgakolole gore o ne o reng.
Nkgakolole foo Rre Keorapetse.

MR KEORAPETSE: Who was approached mo go ba liquidation, and why?

MR MOAGI: Ehe, okay, ba liquidation.

Eo ga ke na karabo e e gaufi fa.

Ke tlaa tshwanela ke gore ke ye go tlhodumela dibuka tsa me, mme ke ka go neela maina a Batswana ba ba neng go tlilwe kwa go bone ka nako ya teng.

E nngwe e ke go e kolotang ke ya gore facilities company e ne e duelwa bokae.

Jaaka ke supile gore madi a a tshwanang le P62.2 million, a setse a duetswe mo matlong ao mo sebakeng se.
Fela ke tsone tse e leng gore I do not have ready answers for, ke tlaa go tlela madi a teng a facilities company.

MR KEORAPETSE: How much was Norilsk paid?

MR MOAGI: Norilsk was paid 51 million Dollars (USD) ntate, ga re a feta sepe se se neng se le teng.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MMOLOTSI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Tona, ke ne ke re gongwe o re thuse mo go reng kgang ya rona le Norilsk e e neng e le kwa courts tsa South Africa, a e fedile, e feletse ruri?
Potso ya bobedi e bo e nna 6 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME gore o ntse o bua ka thekiso ya dithoto tsa BCL e e tlaa diragalang.

Ke ne ke re a Tona o a itse gore mo malatsing a gompieno, go na le thulaganyo e e tsepameng ya gore dithoto tse di ntseng jaana, di tshwana le dikoloi thatathata, fa di rekisiwa either ke Goromente kana maphata a ga Goromente, di rekwa ke garages tsa batho ba ba nang le madi.
Mme ba felele ba rekisetsa Batswana dikoloi tsone tse ka madi a a tshosang.

Le ya go dira jang re lebile gore maloba le ne le dira molao wa Citizen Inclusion Bill, o o neng o bua ka targeted citizens.

Le ya go dira jang gore jaanong dithoto tsone tse, whether ke matlo kana dikoloi, di benefit Motswana yo o ka kgonang, e se bagwebi ba batona ba ba dirisang madi a mantsi go gatelela ba ba kwa tlase?
Ya bofelo o ntlhalosetse gore mo dikgannyeng tse o ntseng o di bua ka BCL, Selebi Phikwe, gongwe o re lekodise fela ka Tati Nickel Mine kwa Francistown ka gore rona re itse e le part of the BCL Group.

Gone go tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jang in terms of gore a mine o a bulwa, fa o bulwa, o bulwa leng?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MOAGI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke a utlwala gakere Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Yes sir.

MR MOAGI: Thank you sir.

Ke a leboga Honourable Mmolotsi ka dipotso tseo.


Ee rra, ke netefatsa gore settlement, mma ke e beye fela jalo ke santse ke baakanya lefoko le le maleba, ya court cases tsa Norilsk e ne e akaretsa cases tsotlhe tse ba neng ba re di beile, jaaka go ne go na le London Arbitration, tse di kwa South Africa le tse ba neng ba di lebisitse Directors tsa BCL jalojalo.
Kana la ntlha go ne go le madi a a tsitsibanyang mmele a bo US$198 million, a re neng ra nna fatshe ra ba raya ra re nnyaa banna a ko re bueng, le a bona gore golo mo ke seru se se re wetseng rotlhe.

Ga buisanngwa, ra ya go felela gone kwa go US$51 million.

Re ne re kile ra tsamaela kwa go bo US$45 million, mme because of passage of time fa go ntse go buisanngwa go bo go raya gore re felela re wela as a final settlement kwa go US$51 million.
Mo re ne ra tsaya gore gona le thoto ele ya madi e e neng e ya kwa go bo close to P2 billion, re bona gore mme e nnile botoka thata, e tsamaile ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Re leboge botlhe bogolo thata jang ba Attorney General’s Chambers ba ba neng ba ntse ba bua le diagente tse di maleba gore re tle re kgone go fitlhelela fa seemong se se ntseng jalo.

Re leboga thata.

Rra ke boammaaruri, sengwe le sengwe tota re batla gore se tsewe ke Batswana.
A ke dipatela kana dikole, a dikompone tsa Batswana di ikgobokanye di tseye meamuso e, di tsamaise jaaka di ka tsamaisa gore e nne tsone tse di neelang Batswana ditirelo tse di ntseng jalo.

E tlaabo e ntse e le gone go nonotsha Motswana go mo neela khumo le boikarabelo jo bo ntseng jalo.
Re buile thata le liquidator le Master of the High Court ka gore tota ke bone kana ba tshotseng thulaganyo e ya BCL, gore a re sokameleng ka kwa Batswaneng tota ba re ba buang, ba nna le wena re itseng gore re bua ka bomang, e nne bone ba ba tlaa tsayang dithoto tse tsa BCL rra.

Re bo re bua gape ka Tati, Tati falls within the BCL Group of Companies.

Ke tshwaetse ka yone fa ke bua kgantele gore, ee le yone gompieno ka gore e ne e saletse kwa moragonyana go setse go rekilwe Selkirk.
PNR e kgonne go reka Selkirk, e bile jaanong ba simolotse tiro mo go yone gore ba tle ba kgone go bula mine o wa Selkirk o ba bonang e le one o go ka nnang bobebe mo go bone gore ba ka o bula.

Jaaka o itse le wena gore, Selkirk e ne e na le lebakanyana e sa dire, ba tshwanelwa ke gore jaanong ba shafatse dipalo tsa bone tse di tlaabong di supa gore ba na le kopore e e kae gone foo.

Ba tle ba kgone to draw mealo ya bone sentle, e e tlaa ba isang kwa goreng production e simolola ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Le yone fela in the same manner, ba tsena mo drilling programme eo e e tlaabong e ba neela dipalo tse di tlhokafalang gore ba dire moalo wa go epa (mining) ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Dithoto tse dingwe tse tsotlhe tse di setseng kwa Tati, di tlaabo di tshwana fela le dithoto tse di tlaabong di rekisiwa go simolola kgwedi ya March e e tlang e. Jaaka bo…(Inaudible)…Plant e e kileng ya nna mo tseleng ele ya Matshelagabedi le tse dingwe jaaka dumps tse di kwa Tati Siding kwa Phoenix Mine jalojalo.
Ke thulaganyo e e leng gore jaaka go ntse jaana, ba lephata la me le ba bangwe re tlaabo re ntse re tsamaya re neela lona le le Mapalamente dikgang tse di ntseng jalo le any information e e tswang mo thekisong e ya dithoto tse di ntseng jalo.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR NKAWANA: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke leboge Tona ka dikarabo tsa gagwe.


Ke mmotse potso ya gore Honourable Minister, kana o supa gore ga o kgone go bolelela Batswana gore dithoto tsa bone o di rekisitse bokae, moo go ya go tsala ketsaetsego.

O supa gape gore moepo o o ya go bula morago ga ditlhopho... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Sorry ka koo Mr Speaker, ga re utlwe ka kwano.

MR NKAWANA: Mr Speaker, ke a utlwala ka koo?

7 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME MR SPEAKER: Yes sir, ke a go utlwa.
MR NKAWANA: Tona ga a kgone go bolelela Batswana gore batho ba mine o, dithoto tsa bone ba di rekisitse bokae.

O supa gore moepo o ka tebo ya gagwe, o ya go bulwa morago ga dingwaga tse tharo.

Go raya gore e tlaabo e le morago ga ditlhopho tsa 2024.

Ke mmotse gore Tona, a o ka re thusa ka go itse gore pele ga bareki ba ba neng ba reka moepo o, tota value ya one e ne e le bokae, pele ga ba o reka.

Le gore morago ga gore ba o reke, value ya dithoto tse di setseng ke bokae, re tle re itirele dipalo rona.
Sa bobedi ke gore Tona, fa re bua ka matlo a BCL go na le tenants tse di mefuta mebedi, go na le ba ba duelelwang ke Goromente ka gore ba ne ba bereka mo BCL.

Go na le ba ba iphiriseditseng privately ba ituelela.

Gongwe potso e ka nna gore, a go ka kgonega gore fa go setse go rekisiwa matlo a, tenants tsa ntlha ba BCL le ba e seng ba BCL gore ba neelwe preference ya gore ba reke pele, gona le gore re bo re simolola evicting them mo matlong re re re bulela mongwe le mongwe.
Gore bone ka gore ba setse ba le foo e bile ba a tlhokometse, especially ba ba private, ka e bile ba setse ba na le se ba se duetseng.

Gongwe re ba neele tshono ya gore e nne bone pele ba ba neelwang tshwanelo ya go reka matlo a ba nnang mo go one.

Ke a leboga Minister.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MOAGI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke a leboga Honourable Nkawana.
Go raya gore gongwe o ne o santse o ipaakanya, ke buile fela kwa tshimologong gore dithoto di rekisitswe bokae, ke tlaa boelelela madi ao.

Ke ne ka supa le kwa bagolong, ke ba kopile gore nte ke bue se se duetsweng kana se dumalanwe e le theko ya madi ao.

P770.21 million ke one madi a ke a buileng.

Selkirk ka bua gore P66.97 million.

Kana itse gore fa o simolola moepo, go na le thoto ya madi e o yang go e tsenya gone foo fa o tsenya infrastructure e ke e buang.
Ke yone e ke neng ke bua gore it is close to P5 billion ya go ya go simolola moepo oo.

Re itumelela gore even before motho a ya go tsenya infrastructure, o ntshitse madi a a kana ka P770 million whereas ba bangwe ba ne ba batla go tsaya ka Dollar, US$1 ka gore ba re ba ya go tsenya dithoto tsa madi a a kana ka one ao.

This is where the difference comes.

Gape they are already inputting P300 million mo the prospecting and building programme, e e setseng e simolotswe gone jaana.
PNR, e ke neng ke supa kgantele gore e tsamaya kwa go 69 million.

Then go bo go nna le rehabilitation ya P42 million.

Madi ao otlhe kana ke madi a re rayang a tla ka kwano, ke sone se ke neng ke supa gore dithoto di jele bokae.

Ka ba ka supa gore tse dingwe tse di tshwanang le dikoloinyana tse di neng tsa rekisiwa, e ne ya nna P6 million.

Di ne tsa rekisiwa ka palobalo, fa o gakologelwa dingwaga tse pedi tse di neng di feta tsele.

Ke one madi a a neng a bonwa go reka dithoto tsa go nna jalo rra.
Madi a matona a a tlaabong a diragala, ke a ba tlaabong ba a tsenya mo go buleng meepo ka go aga mafaratlhatlha a masha a a tlaabong a thusa moepo gore o tswelele.

Gone foo re bo re itse gore jaanong royalties le makgetho a rona re tlaabo re a bona ka moepo o mosha o o tlhabolotsweng koo.

Ke sone se re se itumelelang.

Rra BCL e ne e le mo mathateng pele.

O a itse gore e ne ya re ba tloga ba tswala ba tsaya loan ya P2 billion kwa Barclays Bank e e bidiwang ABSA gompieno, mme ba palelwa ke go e duela.
Goromente o feletse a duela madi a a kana ka P1, 483 billion, a leka gore a thuse.

Ke sone se se neng sa tsisa mo seemong sa gore nnyaa, ga re ka ke ra kgona bagaetsho for the time being.

Ke nngwe ya dilo tse di neng tsa gwetlha gore moepo o tle o tswalwe ka nako ya teng.

Ga go ise gotwe moepo o tswalelwa gore ga go na kopore kana ga go na eng.

The mine never closes because the commodity is finished.

It only closes because it becomes uneconomic to exploit.

Ke sone se se diragalang.


Jaanong fa e le gore go a tokafala, you can come back o bo o tla go dira se o se itseng, o tsweletsa go dira moepo.

Go ne go le botlhokwa gore e re mo letlhokong la madi ka tsela e, go bo go diragala jalo.

Rra, ke boammaaruri ba ba nnang mo matlong, re buile, re solofela gore go tlaa nna jalo gore ba neelwe tshono ya go a reka fa e le gore ba a batla.

PNR e setse e rekile a mangwe, jaaka e ne e le tshwanelwa ya bone.
Jaanong a a setseng a tlaabo a ka rekwa ke mongwe le mongwe yo o kgonang.

Go ka nna monate jang fa e ne ka nna kompone ya Batswana kana Motswana yo o batlang go a hirisa a a neela ba ba berekang gone kwa dikomponeng tse di tlaabong di butse kwa Phikwe.

Ke dumalane le lona gore re batla jalo gore dilo tse di tsewe ke Batswana.
Go na le care and maintenance ya dithoto tse dingwe tse di tsweletseng, legale eo ga e dirwe ke PNR, but go na le ya Selebi and Selebi North e e simolotsweng ke HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga o a araba potso, value before and after the sale; value of the assets before the sale and after the sale.

8 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME MR MOAGI: Nnyaa rra, ga ke na valuation ya assets before and after the sale, mme e ka dirwa.
Valuing a mine; gakere you need also the resource gore o itse gore o na le bokae, jwa se se ka fa tlase ga lefatshe.

I do not have those valuations.

Ke sengwe se se ka dirwang, se bo se tla se bolelelwa Batswana.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I understand the Leader of the Opposition (LOO) wishes to make a statement.

MR MOAGI: Gobotswang, wa reng?

DR GOBOTSWANG: O rekisa kgomo o sa itse gore o batla go e rekisa bokae?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa gompieno o mpaletse.


MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, may you listen!

STATEMENT REVIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR SALESHANDO): Ke tsaya sebaka se go dirisa tshwanelo e ke e neelwang ke Standing Orders 9.3.2 ke le Moeteledipele wa Kganetso go ntsha dikgang dingwe tse di amang setšhaba ka kakaretso.

Mo dingwageng tse dintsi tse di fetileng, re le diphathi tsa kganetso, re ne re bua ka botlhokwa jwa go lebelela Molaomotheo wa lefatshe la Botswana sesha.
Kopo e ya rona e, dingwaga tse dintsi e ne e ganwa ke party e busang ya Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) ka bone ba ne ba re, Molaomotheo o re gogile sentle ga go tlhokafale gore o lebiwe sesha.

Ba ne ba dirisa mafoko a Sekgoa a a reng “if it is not broken why fix it”.

Fa re ya ditlhophong tsa 2019, re ne ra lemoga fa ba Domkrag ba fetotse maikutlo a bone gore Molaomotheo ba batla o lebelelwa sesha.
Diphathi tsa sepolotiki di ne di dumalana ka se, le rona ra itumelela go fetoga ga BDP go amogela gore molao o tshwanetse o sekasekwe sesha.

Ke tumelo ya rona gore go sekaseka Molaomotheo sesha, go re fa sebaka se se ntle re le setšhaba sa go itshekatsheka mmogo, go sa kgathalesege gore re farologana fa kae mo go tsa sepolotiki.

Re tle re kgone go tswa ka Molaomotheo o o tlaabong o itebagantse le dikeletso tsa rona rotlhe re le Batswana.
Nako yone e fa re ya ditlhophong le fa re sena go tswa mo ditlhophong, re ne ra itlama gore fa re tswa mo ditlhophong re tlaa tshwaraganya matsogo le party e busang gore re sekaseke Molaomotheo ka tsela e e tlaa re tshwaraganyang e seng e e re kgaoganyang.

Ka di 29 September, 2021, ke ne ka kwalela Tautona lekwalo ke le Moeteledipele wa diphathi tsa Kganetso mo Palamenteng.
Mo lekwalong leo, ka tlhagisa Tautona gore go setse go fetile dingwaga di le pedi e sale a solofeditse gore o tlaa simolodisa thulaganyo ya go sekaseka Molaomotheo sesha.

Ke ne ka mmaya dikopo dingwe pele di le tharo.

Ya ntlha, ke ne ka mo kopa gore thulaganyo ya go lebaleba Molaomotheo sesha, a re thulanye ditlhogo re le boeteledipele jwa sepolotiki, re dumalane gore re akanya gore e ka tsamaisiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Sone se, se ne se tlaabo se tsamaelana le se se dirilweng mo nakong e fetileng fa go na le dikgang tsa moruthutha pele ga re ya go fetola melao e tshwana le ya tsamaiso ya ditlhopho, go letlelela ba ba dingwaga di kwa tlase ga 21 nako eo gore ba tlhophe, go nne le Independent Electoral Commission (IEC), re ne re di kopanetse re le boeteledipele jwa sepolotiki go dumalana ka tsone.
Fa godimo ga moo, ga go na pelaelo epe, gore tiro e, e tshwanetse go tshwaraganelwa ka mabaka a gore re le diphathi tsa sepolotiki fa o lebelela maduo a ditlhopho, diphathi tsa kganetso di bone 48 per cent, e e busang 52 per cent.

Mo go rayang gore go botlhokwa gore re tshwaraganele dikgang tsa setšhaba, re di tsamaise mmogo.
Ya bobedi e ke neng ka e lebisa Tautona e le kgakololo kana kopo, e ne e le go mo itsise gore tumelo ya rona ke gore go tlhoka gore sengwe le sengwe sa Molaomotheo se direlwe mo pontsheng.

Se dirwe ka mowa o montle wa gore mongwe le mongwe a itse gore ke eng re tsaya dikgato tse re di tsayang.

Ke ne ka ikuela mo go Tautona gore a amogele gore e le Puso, sa bone ke go netefatsa gore tiro e tsamaya sentle, e seng gore ba tseye tshwetso ya gore tiro e tsamaya jang.
They should facilitate and not necessarily determine the content and the process.

E ne e le kgakololo e ke neng ke e beile fa pele ga ga Tautona.

Ka moo, ka mo gakolola gore a bitse phuthego ya botlhe ba ba neng ba ka tswa e le banaleseabe, a ke dikereke, makgotla a babereki, diphathi tsa sepolotiki, gore go nne le phuthego e re ka lebisanyang gore mme re akanya gore the terms of reference e ka nna eng tse di tlaa tsamaisang Molaomotheo.
Ba ba tlaa tsamaisang go sekasekwa ga Molaomotheo le gore ba ba tlaa o sekasekang, ba eteletse kgang e, ba ka tlhophiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Kopo ya boraro e ke neng ke e mmeile pele, e ne e le gore fa re setse re dumalane gore mme Molaomotheo wa rona re batla o fetolwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang, a re tswe ka molao o o tlaa bidiwang gotwe ke Constitutional 9 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022STATEMENTREVIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION Review Act kwa Palamenteng, o o tlaa tlhalosang gore sengwe le sengwe se ya go tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Go hema seemo se re ka iphitlhelang e le gore bangwe ba ka batla go dirisa sepolotiki sa bone go baakanya Molaomotheo o o tsamaelang le phathi mme o sa tsamaelane le dikeletso tsa Batswana.

Fa go na le molao o gotweng Constitutional Review Act, fa go ka fapogiwa mo go one, o ka ya go ikuela kwa makgotleng a ditsheko gore go boelwe mo tseleng e e dumalanweng ke Palamente.

Tautona o ne a se ka a bona go tlhokafala go tsibogela lekwalo le ke neng ke le mo kwaletse.
E ntse e le ene Tautona yo o ikanneng gore o tlaa tsamaisa ka therisanyo, a se ka a bona go tlhokafala go rerisanya.

Ka di 17 December, 2021 Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, o tlaa gakologelwa gore ke letsatsi le Palamente e phatlalala ka lone.

Fa Palamente e sena go phatlalala letsatsi leo, Tautona a bo a ntsha kitsiso ya gore o tlhomile lekgotla, e bile o dirile le tse di tlaa tsamaisang go sekaseka Molaomotheo sesha.

O setse a ntshitse the terms of reference tsa one a le nosi.
Letsatsi la di 17 Tautona o ne a le tlhophile ka maikaelelo a gore o batla Palamente e phatlaletse, ka jalo, Palamente e se ka ya nna le seabe sepe.

It was not just a small coincidence, e ne e le thulaganyo.

It was a plan by the President go netefatsa gore fa Palamente e phatlaletse, ke gone jaanong a bo a ntsha kgang ya Molaomotheo.

Tautona ga a a rerisanya le ope mo go boneng gore the terms of reference e nna dife.
Tautona o tsere tshwetso ya gore ga a rerisanye le ope le gore ke bomang ba ba ka tsenang mo Commission of Enquiry; Tautona yo o ikanetseng morero.

Ka di 24 January, ke ne ka kwalela Tautona gape, ke mo kopa kana ke mo lemotsha bodiphatsa jwa tsela e a e tsereng gore ke yone e a batlang go sekaseka Molaomotheo wa rona sesha.

Ke ne ka tlhagisa dintlha tse di latelang; (1) Tsela e a e tsereng ka go sekaseka Molaomotheo, ga e re kopanye, e a re kgaoganya.
(2) Go maleba gore Tautona a tseye tshwetso ya go simolola sesha ka tsela e e akaretsang mongwe le mongwe gore re gate dikgato tsotlhe mmogo.

(3) Tsela e a e tsereng ya Commissions of Enquiries Act, e baya dithata tsotlhe mo diatleng tsa ga Tautona a le nosi, mme re bua ka Molaomotheo wa lefatshe.

Molao one o, o mo letlelela gore o ka tsaya tshwetso nako nngwe le nngwe go phatlalatsa lekgotla le.

Molao o ga o mo patike gore pheletsong a re fe pego re e sekaseke mmogo.
Jaaka re itse mo nakong e e fetileng, Commissions of Enquiry dingwe tse di dirilweng, le gompieno ga a ise re bone dipego tsa tsone.

Tse dingwe di dirilwe more than 20 years ago.

Re na le bothata le go dirisa tsela yone e le ya go sekaseka Molaomotheo.
Number four; Palamente e tshwanetse e nne yone e tsayang tshwetso ya gore Molaomotheo o sekasekwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang ka gore ke yone e e dirang melao, e tshwanetse e nne le seabe fa re itebaganya le go sekaseka molao o e leng mmamelao yotlhe mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Ka jaanong Tautona Masisi lekwalo le labobedi ga a bona go tlhokafala gore a le fetole, go mo mpapananeng gore o tsere tshwetso gore Constitutional Review ke ya gagwe a le nosi; ga se ya Batswana.
Ka jalo, re le Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC), re batla go bua re papametse mo letsatsing la gompieno gore ga re na go nna le seabe mo Constitutional Review ya ga Tautona Mokgweetsi Eric Masisi.

Re tlaa batla sebaka sa go nna le seabe nako e go nnang le go sekaseka Molaomotheo wa Botswana o o akaretsang mongwe le mongwe.

Ya gompieno, Tautona o tsere tshwetso ya gore ke ya gagwe a le nosi.
E tlaabo e le Molaomotheo wa ga Tautona Masisi fela jaaka re tlaabo re tswa mo go o re neng re o filwe ke ba ba neng ba re busa pele e le bakolone.

Ka jalo, Motswana mongwe le mongwe a itse gore ga se gore e ne e le go rata ga rona, re tswaletswe ditswalo ke Tautona.

Re lekile go bua fa re kgonneng teng, mme o re itlhokomolositse jaanong ga re na go nna le seabe mo thulaganyong yone eo.

Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Saleshando.
Honourable Members, in terms of our Standing Orders, it is permissible to ask short questions for clarification of the statement just made.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki Mr Speaker, mmang re dumedise batlotlegi le setšhaba ka kakaretso.

Honourable Saleshando, motho fa a ka go botsa, a mme bone Batswana ba go iwang kwa go bone go ya go buiwa ka Molaomotheo, a selo santlha one Molaomotheo o o leng teng ba o tlhaloganya, ba a o itse?
A mme jaaka o bua, go ne go se botoka gore fa Palamente e ne ya akarediwa e ka bo Mapalamente ba ile kwa bathong go ya go leka go tshwara diphuthego go ba tsibosa le gore Molaomotheo ke selo se se ntseng jang, fa se fetolwa se tshwanetse go fetolwa jang?

A ke sone se o se buang gore se ka bo se diragetse rather than go ya go gorogwa kwa bathong fela ba sa itse gore gatwe go buiwa ka ga eng?

Bangwe fa go buiwa ka ditherisanyo tsa Constitution, ba bua ditsela.
10 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022STATEMENTREVIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION Sa bobedi, gone mme fa o bona Honourable Saleshando, kgang e ya Domkrag ka fa ba dirang Molaomotheo o ka teng, a ke yone international best practice?

International best practice yone ya reng?

Ya re go ka bo go diragetse jang?

Fa o bona, ke eng batho ba ba tshaba therisanyo le international best practice ka bokete jo bo kana?

Tanki Mr Speaker.

MR SALESHANDO: Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo.
Nngwe ya dintlha tse di neng le mo makwalong a ke a neng ke a kwaletse e ne e le gore fa re simolola thulaganyo ya go sekaseka Molaomotheo sešha, re tle ka tsamaiso ya go rutuntsha setšhaba gore tota Molaomotheo o re nang le one gompieno o na le eng mo teng, ke dife tse re tsayang gore fa re re re aga Molaomotheo di a bo di lebeletswe?

Fa e ne e le gore re ne re dirile jalo, re ka bo re isitse thuto pele kwa Batswaneng.

Mafatshe a mangwe…ga se rona lefatshe lantlha go sekaseka Molaomotheo sešha.
Fa o lebelela mafatshe a mangwe se a se dirileng, lefatshe le tshwana le la Kenya le ne la dira yone thulaganyo e ke neng ke kopa gore Tautona le ene a e sekaseke ya gore go iwe kwa setšhabeng pele re ye go se bolelela gore re ya go aga Molaomotheo wa rona sešha, mme a re buisaneng ka gore re ya go tsamaisa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Gore go ya go tsamaisiwa e e ntseng jang, go nna le morero, gone moo fela.
Mafatshe a mangwe a tlile ka one molao o gotweng Constitutional Review Law o nne Mapalamente ba rerisana gore ba batla go tsena eng mo teng ga Molaomotheo kana go tsamaisiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Palamente ya rona e seegetswe kwa thoko mo thulaganyong e tona ya go tsamaisiwa ga Molaomotheo.

Le gompieno, ga gona ope Mopalamente yo o itseng gore fa Commission e ya ga Tautona e fetsa, e isa Report kwa go ene, legato la bobedi ke eng.
Ke ene a itseng a le nosi gongwe le Matona, Palamente e e leng yone kwa Batswana ba tlhophileng batho ba ba batlang ba ba direla melao, yone ga e itse.

Go thona mme tota ga ke itse go pala eng gore phathi ya Domkrag e tswe mo go bueng ka go rerisanya e diragatse go rerisanya, e seng go bua fela.

MR MOTSAMAI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


Ke ne ke re ke botse Motlotlegi Rre Saleshando ka ke moo o bua ka dikgang tsa go rerisiwa mabapi le go dira tiro e tonatona ya lefatshe la Botswana e bile e amang ditshwanelo tsa setho e re tshwanetseng gore re e tseye ka masisi le matsetseleko.
Rraetsho, fa go ka se ke gotlhelele go nne le ntlha ya gore Tautona a bone gore a boele kwa makgatlhanelong a ditsela a dire morero o o tsepameng, kgato e o ka ikaelelang gore ba kganetso ba e tseye kana le ba makgotla a mangwe a e leng gore gongwe ga a itumelele tiro e e diragalang ke efe?

A le ya go nna fa fatshe fela go senyega go ya kwa pele le bo le ya gore nnyaa, rona re ne re boletse?

Potso ya ntlha.
Potso ya ntlha.

Potso ya bobedi ke gore rraetsho, ke utlwa o bua ka matsapa a mantsintsi a o a tsereng go kwalela Tautona o buisana le ene ka dilo dingwe tse e bileng dingwe tsa tsone di ama Molaomotheo gore Moeteledipele wa Kganetso o tshwanetse a rerisiwa.
Ke batla go go botsa ya gore a wena fa o le fa morwa Saleshando, a o na le tsholofelo ya gore Tautona o ka go reetsa ka nako nngwe fa e le gore ka nako e o botsang dipotso ka yone ke yone nako e e leng gore Matona a gagwe a tlola mo maemong a supa ba sa itumelele tsamaiso ya gagwe kana ya Mmuso wa gagwe?

A o na le tsholofelo e e leng gore o ka tswa o na nayo rraetsho?
Ya bofelo ke gore rraetsho, gone mme go sa rerisa makgotla, makalana le batho ka bophara ba e leng gore gongwe ba a amega pele ga go tsenwa mo dikgannyeng tse di buiwang le setšhaba, go raya eng mo pusong ya batho ka batho?

A go raya gore e teng e idibetse kana go raya gore puso ya batho ka batho e tsweletse e a nyelela?

Ke a leboga.

MR SALESHANDO: Ke a go leboga Mopalamente.

Mo go ya ntlha, re tsaya dikgato dife?


Dingwe tse re di dirang mo nakong ya gompieno ke go kopana le one makgotla a a ikemetseng ka nosi a a neng a tshwanetse a ka bo a nnile le seabe mo thulaganyong yone e. Re na le diphuthego le bone.

Gape ke iphile matsapa a go kopana le baemedi ba mafatshe a sele mo lefatsheng la Botswana go ba itsise gore sengwe se ba se tshwanetseng ba se ele tlhoko ke thulaganyo e e dirilweng ke Tautona ya go ikgagapela tsamaiso ya go sekaseka Molaomotheo wa lefatshe la Botswana.
Ke setse ke kopane le ba mafatshe a le mmalwa go ba kopa gore ba ele tlhoko se se diragalang mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Sa bobedi, gore a ke na le tsholofelo ya gore Tautona yo o ka rerisana, o itshupile mo dinakong tse di fetileng fa ke lekileng go tsaya matsapa a go rerisana le ene teng.

Fa a sena go ikana a sena go tlhophiwa go nna Tautona wa lefatshe la Botswana, o ne a bua gore o batla go tsamaisa an inclusive Government; o batla go tshwaragana le ba bangwe go tsamaisa Puso.
Nako yone eo ke ne ka mo kopa gore a re ka kopana ra buisana ka gore bo Specially Elected a re ka ba kgaogana, phathi e e busang le tse di sa buseng gore re tsamaise (run) an inclusive Government and an inclusive approach mo go bo Specially Elected.

11 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022STATEMENTREVIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION O ne a nkakgela diatla Tautona mo nakong yone eo a supa gore mole jaaka ditsholofetso tse dingwe, e ne e le puo fela e a sa ikaeleleng go e diragatsa.
Dinako tsotlhe tse a nnileng le sebaka sa go leka go rerisanya le nna ke le Moeteledipele wa Kganetso, ke fela fa a patelediwa ke molao jaaka re itse gore gore a tlhophe Ombudsman, molao o a re a bue pele le wa kganetso.

O tla fela fa a patelediwa ke molao, ene ga go mo tlholegong ya gagwe go tsaya tshwetso ya go rerisanya ka merero ya Puso le ba ba tlhophilweng le ene mo ditlhophong.

Se se raya eng mo pusong ya batho ka batho?


Se se koafatsa puso ya batho ka batho mo lefatsheng la Botswana, ka gore Tautona yo o sa kgoneng go tlhaloganya gore the Legislature, Palamente, ke yone kwa melaong e tshwanetseng ya dirwa teng.

Yo o ka tsayang tshwetso ya gore ene a le nosi a dirise dithata tsa gagwe gore jaanong Executive, the Presidency, e nne yone e etelelang pele mo go lebalebeng Molaomotheo wa rona sesha, golo moo ke go busetsa puso ya batho ka batho kwa morago mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Re tsaya gore ke dikgang tse le Batswana ba tlaa di lemogang, ba tlaa bulegang matlho go ya kwa pele, gore re goregetswe ke Puso ya mofuta mang.

MR SPEAKER: Members, we cannot go on... (inaudible)…we have got other things to attend to.

So we will take just the last two; Honourable Lucas followed by Honourable Morwaeng.

MR LUCAS: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke re Motlotlegi Saleshando, kana o bua gore o ntse o kwalela Tautona.

Mo kgannyeng e o mo kwaletse makgetho a mabedi mme a sa go fetole.
Potso ya me ke gore, a mme dikwalo tse tsa gago o a di bona kana o ka tswa a sa di bone, gongwe ba ba di amogelang ba di mo lobela?

Fa e le gore o a di bona, and he is not replying o mo tsaya e le moeteledipele yo o ntseng jang?

Ke raya fela fa re tsaya dikgang tsa gore, kana moeteledipele e tshwanetse ya nna motho yo o nang le courtesy fela, bogolo fela ya go go raya a re, ke bone lekwalo ga ke na dikarabo.

O mo tsaya e le motho yo o ntseng jang moeteledipele yo o ntseng jalo?
Ya bobedi ke gore, re utlwa go tlhomilwe lekoko leo, a mme mo lekokong leo ka o le Moeteledipele wa Kganetso fa o ntse o le sekaseka a go na le bangwe ba kganetso ba o ba lemogang ba le mo lekokong leo, ba gongwe ba ka tswang ba ka emela dikeletso tsa batho ba o reng ke 48 per cent ba ba tlhophileng kganetso mo ditlhophong tse di fetileng?

Fa e le gore ga go na ope wa kganetso yo o mo lemogang, a mme mo go ka raya gore Tautona ga a na sepe le kganetso le batho ba ba tlhophang kganetso?
Ya boraro ke gore, fa e le gore ga go na ba kganetso mo teng, a mme fa o ba lebile a ga go a tlopegela batho ba ba amanngwang le Domkrag kana ba ba gaufing thata le Tautona mo go bone commissioners tse di tlhophilweng le yone secretariat?

Fa go ntse jalo ga o bone gore Molaomotheo o e tlaabo jaanong e se Molaomotheo wa Batswana botlhe, mme e le o o itebagantseng fela le batho ba ba ratang Domkrag?

Ya bofelo, rraetsho o ne o re, ga re tseye karolo re le ba kganetso.
Ke botsa gore fa re ka tlisa Tshutiso ya tshoganetso e e reng go nne le thulaganyo e, e sekasekwe sesha yone e e dirilweng, mme gongwe Mapalamente ba Domkrag ba re ata, a mme ke gone fa re ka kgonang gore re tseye karolo?

Ke raya thulaganyo e re kopang ka Motion o o urgent, gore mme re bona gore phoso e dirilwe, mme ka gore phoso e dirilwe a re lebalebeng seemo se gape re tsenye makalana otlhe a a amegang.
A mme le ka busa mogopolo le le ba kganetso gore le rona re tsene mo thulaganyong e re tle re kgone go nna le seabe?

Ke a leboga rraetsho.

MR SALESHANDO: Kana tsamaiso ke yone eo, gore le fa o sa dumalane le ba bangwe o le mo Pusong, mme fa ba ntsha lentswe o tshwanetse wa reetsa.
Tautona gore a bo a tsere tshwetso ya gore mekwalo yotlhe e e yang kwa go ene, e ke tlhomamisang gore e a goroga kwa diofising tsa gagwe, a bo a e itlhokomolosa, fa a sa kgone go rerisanya le ba a tlhophilweng le bone o tlaa tlhola a rerisanya le bo mang?
Go supa gore dikgang tse a neng a di bua fa a ikanela botautona o sale a kgaogane le tsone letsatsi le a fetsa maikano a gagwe a gore o tlaa rerisanya, mme e bile o tlaa tsamaisa, mo a neng a go bitsa a re, ‘an inclusive Government,’ Goromente yo o sa kgethololeng ope, yo o amogelang mongwe le mongwe.

A go na le bangwe ba ba tseneng on the commission ba ba neng ba ka tswa ba amana le maikutlo kana dikakanyo tsa ba diphathi tsa kganetso; ga ke itse ope.
Fela se se tona se se teng ke gore, le fa ba ne ba le teng go tsena mo teng ga commission ka tsela e re ka se kang ra dumalana gore tota gatwe re ne re batla gore o ye go dira eng, e bile o tlhoka gore o bo o na le eng go tsena mo teng ga commission, ga go amogelesege mo dithulaganyong tsa segompieno tsa good governance.
Mo maDomkrag gantsi ba a tleng ba re, nnyaa fa a tsene a re amogeleng gore go raya gore semangmang o latswitswe ke tlhware, Molaomotheo ga o ka ke wa tsamaisiwa ka tlhware ya Domkrag, mo go a neng gotwe, ba ba latswitswe ke tlhware, Tautona o ba ratile a ba tsene.

Batho ba tshwanetse ba tsene foo ka dikitso 12 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022STATEMENTREVIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION tsa bone, le ka go emela mephato e e farologaneng ya setšhaba sa rona.
Fa go ka nna le thulaganyo ya gore go tle Motion wa gore a re sekasekeng se sesha, seo se tlaabo se supa go itlotla ga Palamente, ka gore tiro ya Palamente ke go dira melao.

Go thona gore Palamente e bo e didimetse, e bo e latlhegetswe ke lentswe, e lebeletse Tautona a ikgagapeletse dithata tsa go tsamaisa thulaganyo ya go fetola Molaomotheo a le nosi.
Fa ba bangwe Mapalamente ba ka utlwa gore ba Botswana ba ne ba bona go siame gore ba rolwe tshwanelo eo, ba tlaa re gakgamalela, ba ipotsa gore re tletse eng Palamenteng, fa e le gore ga re itse ditshwanelo tsa rona kana se e leng tiro ya rona.

Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

FOR PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Mma ke go leboge Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, rraetsho ke bo ke ikokobetse fa pele ga gago.
Sa ntlha o nkinele diatla metsing mongwame ka gore pele ga ke akgela ke re ke lemoga fa bakaulengwe ba me ba Domkrag le bone Matona, Mapalamente, ba tsholeditse ba le mmalwa, ke belaela gore gongwe ntate ka koo o ka tswa a sa bona matsogo a bone.

Gongwe go ne go ka nna molemo fa le rona, bangwe ba rona re le palo re ka bo re buile, lentswe ya se ka ya nna e ka re ke la kganetso fela.

Mma ke fete ka kopo eo ka boikokobetso monngame.


Ke re Moeteledipele wa Kganetso o ka bolelela setšhaba, ra dumalana nna le ene gore ga go na gope fa Tautona a tlodileng Molaomotheo teng mabapi le commission e, ke raya molao wa lefatshe la Botswana.

Fa e le gore go teng fa Tautona a tlodileng molao teng, fa re leba ga go na gope, a mokaulengwe o ne a ka tlhalosa, a tlhomamisetsa Batswana gore Molaomotheo wa lefatshe ga o a tlodiwa ke ope.
Sa bobedi, a Motlotlegi Moeteledipele wa Kganetso o a lemoga gore gompieno jaana commission e fa e ya kwa dikgaolong tse di farologanyeng Batswana ka kakaretso ba a lalediwa, ba a tla, ba tla go ntsha maikutlo a bone kwa diphuthegong tsa mofuta o. E bile diphuthego tse di fetileng tse di ntseng tsa commission batho ba tlile ka mmetela, ka bontsi.

Batho ba ntse ba ntsha maikutlo a bone.

Ka a le kalo ke ne ke re ke fete teng foo.


Ke re Mr Speaker ka tlotlo monngame ke a ikokobetsa, o intshwarele fa gongwe ke fosa, ke re gongwe go ne go ka nna molemo ka ke kgang e e botlhokwa gore bakaulengwe ba bangwe le bone ba ba saleng ba tsholeditse fa nne nako e le teng monngame o ka bo o ba letlile.

Ke a ikokobetsa, ke boela kwa morago.


MR SALESHANDO: Ke ne ke tsere gore Tona Morwaeng ka o kwa Ofising ya ga Tautona o ka tlhalosa gore ke eng ba sa fetole makwalo, ka boikokobetso, pele ga a boela morago.

O ka bo a re tlhaloseditse gore ka o kile a bodiwa potso mo Palamenteng e gore, a go tlaa nna le morero ka terms of reference mo Palamenteng e e neng e tsene ka December 2019, o ne a re solofetsa gore go tlaa nna jalo.
Ga a bone go tlhokagala gore, ‘re fetotse maikutlo a rona, jaanong re bone go sa tlhokagale gore go nne le morero ka terms of reference.” Kgang e tona e Matona a Domkrag ba ratang go e bua gore ga go a robiwa Molaomotheo kana ga go a robiwa molao ofe, ga re bue ka go robiwa ga molao, re bua ka morero.

Morero ga o kwalwe mo Molaomotheong.


Morero ke ngwao ya Batswana e le ba e rontshang, le bo le re jaanong fa le ba e rontshitse le batla go bontshiwa gore ke fa kae mo Molaomotheong fa go tilweng ba ka rerisiwa.

Le Puso ya apartheid e ne e bolaya batho e nna e raya mafatshe a mangwe e re re boleleleng fa re robileng Molaomotheo wa Afrika Borwa teng.

Molaomotheo wa nako eo o ne o ba letla go dira jalo.
Jaanong ga se karabo Honourable Morwaeng go nna o gatelela gore gakere mme ga re ise re robe Molaomotheo.

Fa o ka bona fela o ganelela mo goreng mpontsha pele gore ke robile molao ofe o le mmusi, golo moo that is where dictatorship starts.

Ke gone fa o simololang go bona go sa tlhokafale gore o rere teng ka gore Molaomotheo ga o go reye o re o rerisanye, ke poela morago mo lefatsheng la rona.
Jaanong dikarabo ga di yo jaaka re bona go tswa kwa Ofising ya ga Tautona gore ga pala fa kae gore go nne le morero; ga pala fa kae gore le fetole makwalo, ke fela a re robile molaomotheo?

Ga ke dumalane le thulaganyo e ba e buang.

Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Saleshando.

Honourable Morwaeng, the matter before us is not for debate, it is for Members to ask for clarification in something which is not clear.
So gore Matona a mangwe a tsholeditse matsogo cannot be an issue.

That is the Standing Order.

Honourable Members, we are moving on to the next item.

HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Clarification.

Nnyaa mme o arabile Mr Speaker.

Gone go botlhokwa gore setšhaba se itse gore fa motho a tlile ka statement, o bodiwa dipotso, not only for clarification.
There are substantive questions tse e leng gore o ka di bodiwa... 13 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022STATEMENTREVIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION MR SPEAKER: Vice President (VP), you are not listening.

The Standing Order is quite clear as to what is permissible.

MR SPEAKER: Indeed Honourable Boko.

I think 56 minutes altogether.

We have time for replying.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR TSOGWANE: Nnyaa, re a go utlwa Mr Speaker.

A go botse ba kganetso fela clarifications?


A di ne di tshwanelwa ke gore di botswe ke ba kganetso fela?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Let us move on to the next issue.

COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS Motion MR SPEAKER: I do not understand what the Clerk is reading.
What happened last time in December because Honourable Keorapetse had a question, the Motion by Honourable Boko has moved up and that is the Motion which would have been disposed of on the 17th of December if we did not have the many statements made by Honourable Ministers.

That is the Motion we should dispose of, then we go to the Motion by Honourable Keorapetse.
TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERS Motion (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I know December 2021 is not a while ago, but that is the Motion by Honourable Boko that we should dispose of.
The question Honourable Members, is that this House resolves to transform Botswana Television (BTV) and Radio Botswana (RB1 and RB2) from state broadcasters (state controlled) to public broadcasters (state funded) with editorial independence.

The debate on the Motion is resuming.

When the House adjourned on Friday the 10th of December, 2021, Honourable Ramogapi was on the floor debating.

He was left with five minutes.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re thuse Mr Speaker, gore re itse gore go setse nako e e kae ya to debate.

Thank you so much.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ramogapi.

...Silence...

MR SPEAKER: O ile kae, o ile phaneng kwa Palapye?

Honourable Hikuama.

MR HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Ka re le nna ke eme nokeng Tshutiso e re e beilweng pele ke Mopalamente wa Mahalapye Botlhaba, Honourable Boko gore a Puso kana a Palamente e e dumalane le go dira diromamowa kana le kanamiso mafoko, metswedi yotlhe gore e fetoge go nna ya setšhaba, e e tlaabong e duelelwa ke Puso.

Ke dumalana le Tshutiso eo.

Ga ke dumalane fela ka gore gongwe Rre Boko ke nnake ka matsalo, ka ditso kana ke mokaulengwe kwa sephathing.
Ke dumalana le ene ka gore se a se beileng pele se na le mosola e bile se tlaa tswela setšhaba sa Botswana mosola.

Se tlaa tlhabolola le tsone dikgang tse di neelwang setšhaba ka gore ba ba tlaabong ba filwe boikarabelo jwa go tsamaisa, ba tlaabo ba sa laolwe ke ope, ba sa kolote ope sepe gore a o tlaa tsoga a edit dikgang tsa bone kana jang.

Fa a bua jaana, a baya Tshutiso e pele, ke ne ka gakologelwa story se sengwe se se neng sa diragala ke tsena sekole kwa university.
Tona yo o neng a le teng editing story se se neng se kwadilwe gore se ye go balwa sesha.

Ke dumela gore le wena Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke dilo tse di diragetseng tse o ka di gakologelwang tseo, le ba bangwe ba ba neng ba le teng nako eo.

Go itsa sone seemo sa Matona a a okametseng maphata a metswedi ya dikgang go nna le seabe le go laola bobegadikgang ka go rata ga bone le maikutlo, re ka thusiwa ke yone a public broadcaster.
Ka mabaka one ao, Tshutiso e e tlang ka Mopalamente wa Mahalapye Botlhaba, e tlhamaletse, re tshwanetse ra e ema nokeng.

Fa o ka bona gore seemo sa metswedi ya bobegadikgang jwa lefatshe la Botswana ga e a gololesega, o tlaa bona ka fa go begwang ka teng diphuthego tsa Mapalamente.

Ke sale ke tsaya boikarabelo jwa go nna Mopalamente mo kgaolong ya Ngami, ke tshwere diphuthego di ka feta 200 up to now tsa Dikgotla, mme tse di broadcasted are only four.
Fa o ka lebelela le jone boleng jo bo begwang, go begwa fela fa o dirang comment, gongwe e se yone the main course of your massage mo Kgotleng.

14 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: O sego jang wena o tswang mo dikgannyeng.
MR HIKUAMA: E bile ke yoo Rre Molale ene a re gotlhelele ga a ise a tswe, e bile ga go ise go begwe sepe mo dilong tsa gagwe, ka gore fela gongwe ga a dumelane le ba ba tsamaisang kana ba ba okametseng one maphata a. Ke tsone dilo tse re reng fa re ka di ntsha mo seemong se, dikgang di ka begwa sentle, le Batswana ba ka akola boleng jwa dikgang tse ba di tlhokang.

Selo se se baya bana ba Modimo mo kgatelelong e e seng kana ka sepe, bone ba ba filweng boikarabelo jwa go tsaya dikgang.
Ba nna mo sepitlaganyeng ba sa itse gore ba bege eng, ba se ka ba report eng.

Fa ba ka report dikgang tse di tlhoafetseng tse o neng o di bua, ba tshaba gore gongwe ba ka kobiwa le mo tirong.

Seemo se se a tshosa, ga re a tshwanela go se letlelela gore se tswelele go ya kwa pele.

Se se ka thusang ke se Mopalamente Rre Boko a se kopang gore Palamente e se dire.

Ke dumela gore… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Hikuama tlhe se nyatse badirelapuso.
MR HIKUAMA: Kana o sale o nna Tona o tsenatsena gongwe le gongwe, you are too excited.

Go tshwana fela, a ko o iketle, o fitlhela batho ba le foo, ga ba dire jalo.

Honourable Speaker, mma ke tswelele, ke ne ke re badirelapuso ba mo mathateng a matona a e leng gore Motlotlegi Monnakgotla ene ka go lebega e le ngwana wa system, she is enjoying se se diragalang, le kwa BDP ga se botlhe ba ba akolang jaaka wena, ba mo mathateng a a seng kana ka sepe.

Ba nna e kete ga ba dire sepe kwa dikgaolong tsa bone.
Ga ke gakgamale go bona Motlotlegi Monnakgotla a bua ka fa a buang ka teng ka gore ene o tswa kgapetsakgapetsa.

Fa ke bua le yo mongwe wa maDomkrag o mpontshitse gore nnyaa bao ke bana ba system.

Ga re tlhoke go nna le bana ba system le ba e seng ba system mo dilong tsa setšhaba, mo go dirisiwang madi a setšhaba, makgetho a batho ba Botswana ba botlhe.
Jaanong fa re ka nna le a public broadcaster e e nang le independence ya editorial, re ka akola dikgang tse di utlwalang, ra leka go tlhabolola lefatshe la rona le go ruta batho ba rona ka dikgang tse di nang le boleng.

Ke sone se ke emang nokeng Tshutiso ya Mapalamente wa Mahalapye East e bong Honourable Boko.
Ka mafoko a a kalo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke ne ke re ke kope Palamente e gore re se ka ra leba gore Tshutiso e e tlile ka Rre Boko, ke Tshutiso e e botlhokwa mo matshelong a rona, le go nonotsha puso ya batho ka batho, le go isa dikgang tse di nang le boleng kwa setšhabeng sa Botswana.

Di ka thusa le mo ditlhabololong tsa lefatshe… MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of clarification.
Ke go botse mokaulengwe gore, tota gone mme mowa o wa go ikgagapelela Radio Botswana le television e bo e felela e kete tota ke camera ya ga Tautona le Matona a gagwe, o bona selo se se bakwa ke eng?

Ke eng fa go ntse jalo?

Ke eng fa ba gana go golola the state broadcast from the claws of the Executive gore e ikemele ka nosi e tshwane fela le bo South African Broadcasting Corporation (SABC) le bo British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), run by independent boards?

Golo moo go dirwa ke eng?


MR HIKUAMA: Ke a leboga Honourable Member.

Ga se sepe fela, ke attitude ya boikgantsho, ya go nna excited ka go busa.

Fa motho a le excited ka go busa, ga a bone a tshwanetse go direla ba bangwe bomolemo.

Ke sone se o o bonang Matona ka bontsi fa o re o bua gore kana re Batswana ba rotlhe, re rometswe ke setšhaba sa Botswana gore re tle go ba emela, Vice President (VP) ene o na le lefoko le a le buang la gore le tle ka dipalo gore le tle go fetisa tse le di batlang.
Ke kgang fela ya boikgantsho.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR HIKUAMA: Ee mme ke wele mo kgannyeng e, ke tlaa go neela Honourable Motaosane.

Se sengwe se se dirwang se, se dirwa ke gore re tlaa go bakisa, re tlaa go baya ka fa mosing gore batho ba se ka ba go utlwa, ba utlwa the alternative views.

They are using the state media as a political tool, as a mouthpiece wa BDP.
Ba re gongwe go dira Daily News album tsa bone, go dira BTV to appear e kete ke album ya Domkrag, ke gone mo go ka ba rekisang botoka, go bo go baya ba kganetso ka fa mosing.

Ke a leboga.

I am yielding for Rre Motaosane.

MR MOTAOSANE: On a point of clarification.

Thank you Honourable Hikuama, thank you Mr Speaker.
Honourable Hikuama, ka gore Goromente o ntshitse licenses tse dintsintsi tsa private radio stations and private televisions, a tsone ga o bone go na le gore di ka tsaya seabe sa tiro e o reng e dirwe ke BTV, Botswana Daily News le Radio Botswana jalo?

Secondly, mabapi le dikgang tse di tlang di le dintsintsi tse o fitlhelang e le fake news, a wa re go tlaabo go siame gore go nne go sena those that can rebut dikgang tse go neela Batswana the true stories and the true pictures of se se diragalang?
Thank you sir.

15 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) MR HIKUAMA: O a itse Honourable Motaosane gore private medias tse o buang ka tsone they are confined only to cities and big towns because of resources.

Puso ke yone e e nang le madi a setšhaba le makgetho a e ka anamang le kwa dikgaolong kwa private media di sa gorogeng teng.
Ya bofelo, the fake news di dirwa ke gone go tswala space sa dikgang tse di nang le boammaaaruri.

Fa o ka tlhabolola gone foo, wa atolola wa akaretsa mongwe le mongwe, the fake news will not have any space.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

GOBOTSWANG DR (SEFHARE- RAMOKGONAMI): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, re filwe nako e e kae kana Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Your 10 minutes.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ke a leboga.


Ke emela go ema nokeng mogopolo wa ga Honourable Yandani Boko, Mopalamente wa Mahalapye Botlhaba gore nako e gorogile ya gore re sekaseke gore metswedi e ya dikitsiso, BTV, Radio Botswana (RB) 1, RB2 le Daily News, di tsamaisiwa ka tsela e di ka ikemelang ka nosi.

Re tlaa tlhalosa gore go ikemela ka nosi re raya mo go ntseng jang, fa re ntse re tsweletse.
Fa re ne re ka boela morago ra gakologelwa mafoko a ga Mosireletsi, mo kgannyeng ele e a neng a isiwa ke Moruti Comrade Moiseraele Dibeela ka 2016.

A isitse ngongorego ya gore BTV le Daily News ba sokame, ba beile diphathi tsa kganetso ka fa mosing.

Mosireletsi o ne a mo reetsa, a dumalana le ene gore BTV le yone metswedi e, ba tshwanetse go tlhomamisa gore there is balanced equity and inclusiveness.
Go raya gore fa re bua jaana, re tshwanetse gore re bo re lebeletse, re ikaegile thata ka yone menangwana ya gore tsholofelo ya gore BTV, Daily News kana Radio Botswana e bo e le gore e re direla sentle, e tshwanetse gore e bo e tsamaya mo menagwaneng ya gore e dire ka tekatekanyo, mongwe le mongwe a nne le seabe se se tshwanang, gape ope a se ka a kgaphelwa kwa ntle.
Mosireletsi a bo a re, ke dumalana le wena Moruti Dibeela, ke lemogile le nna gore BDP e tsaya 82 per cent ya coverage ya BTV, 18 per cent e tsewa ke diphathi tsotlhe tsa kganetso.

Mo e ka bo e le gore ke 52 per cent mo nakong ya gompieno BDP, 48 per cent diphathi tsa kganetso, ga go a nna jalo.

BTV, RB 1, RB2 le Daily News ga se mananeo a Domkrag.

Domkrag e sale e lekile ka dipampiri tsa yone tsa bogologolo tsa bo Therisanyo.
Ke tsone tse e ka bong e di dira ka fa jaanong gompieno e dirang bo Daily News ka teng, ga se selo se se siameng.

Le fa go ntse jalo, o ne a fa dikai fela tse di tsepameng gore fa a rialo, o ne a buisiwa ke eng.

O ne a buisiwa ke gore e rile ka nako e go neng go apolwa letlapa la ga Dr Kenneth Koma, Moeteledipele wa Botswana National Front (BNF), e bile e le lepolotiki la motia, ba ba simolotseng lefatshe le, ke fa e le gore BTV ga e yo gone koo.

Ke dilo fela tse di gakgamatsang.


A bo a supa gape gore e rile fa Mmaetsho Margaret Nasha a amogelwa kwa phuthego ya mokatakata a tswa kwa Domkrag, le gone BTV e ne e seyo go begela Batswana ka a historic event e e tshwanang le yone eo.

Le fa go ntse jalo, Domkrag e ne ya itlhokomolosa ditshwetso tsa Mosireletsi ka gore le ene ba mo tsentse mo pateng.

Ba tsenya mongwe le mongwe mo pateng yo o tshwanetseng gore a tlhomamise gore Batswana ba bona ditshwanelo tsa bone.
Fa ba sena go nna ba ba tsenya mo pateng, go tswa fa ba dira go rata le go bona.

Ke sone seemo se re iphitlhelang re le mo go sone.

Fa o ka ela tlhoko, go botlhokwa thata gore di laolesege, bo BTV le radio di direlwe molao o o tshwanetseng.

Gompieno fa o ka ela tlhoko, di dirisiwa mo dintweng tsa makgamu a Domkrag.

Go raya gore fa o le Tona kana o le Mopalamente o se mo lekgamung la ga Rraetsho Masisi le ditsala tsa gagwe tsa Mapalamente le Matona, to be covered e nna mathata.
Nnyaa, malatsi a fa o lebile o tlaa bona gore BTV jaanong ke ya ga Rraetsho Morwaeng, o tsamaya a e tsere, a tsamaya ka yone, gongwe le gongwe e tsamaya e mo setse morago.

Go setse gore re bone Rraetsho Morwaeng a ile morakeng kana masimong, BTV e mo setse morago.

Dilo tse ke dilo tse di gakgamatsang, gongwe a tlola koi.

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Point of order.


Nnyaa, ke ne ke re gongwe Motlotlegi Dr Gobotswang o ka tswa a horokilwe ke leleme, gore gongwe a baakanye ntlha e a neng a e bua ka Mosireletsi, a re o tsentswe mo pateng.

Ga ke itse gore a ntlha eo o ka e tlhalosa, o ka supa gore fa a re Mosireletsi o tsentswe mo pateng.
Kana golo mo ke go nyenyafatsa boleng jwa bodiredi jo bo ikemetseng kana bodirelapuso, jaanong Mosireletsi ga a yo fa go iphemela gore ene ga a tsenngwa mo pateng jaaka Dr Gobotswang a bua.

MR SPEAKER: Indeed Vice President (VP), I did not understand the statement or so because the Honourable Member was saying, Mosireletsi o ne a dumalana le se Reverend Dibeela a neng a se bua.

Jaanong ga ke itse gore o ka tsenngwa mo pateng, o bo o dumalana le motho a re ga go a dirwa sentle jang?
I thought Honourable Dr Gobotswang o bua ka motho o sele, e seng Mosireletsi 16 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) yoo.

Ke raya gore on his own saying, go na le pata, eo o ne a se mo go yone, that is the first thing of which I thank you VP.

O raya jang Honourable Dr Gobotswang?

Ke ofe Mosireletsi yo o neng a tsenngwa mo pateng?


Ene yo o neng a gana gore ga go a dirwa sentle?

Kana ka go gana ga gagwe, go ne go supa gore o tsentswe mo pateng, fa e le gore ke utlwa Setswana sentle?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke mokgwa wa motho a setse kgang ya lesotlo morago fela.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga a itheetse le go itheetsa.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang… (Interruptions)…VP gore it cannot be in order gore Mosireletsi o tsentswe mo pateng.
My problem is that ga ke bone le fa e le ope yo o tlhaloganyang gore go tsenya motho mo pateng go tewa eng.

Ga ke bone ope a tsentswe mo pateng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Pata mme gone go tewa eng?

MR SPEAKER: Ga re bue le wena.

supile gore go na le bothata, o a itlhokomolosiwa, mme ke yone fela ke ka e kopelang tshwarelo gore ke dirise lefoko la gore ga a na meno.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... HONOURABLE MEMBER: O reletse.

MR SPEAKER: So you are agreeing with the VP?

Okay.
Okay.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Yes, ke ne ke re ke baakanye gone foo.

MR TSOGWANE: Ke a dumela fa e le gore Doctor yo o rutang kwa university, ga a ka ke a itse pharologanyo ya go tsenya mo pateng le go sena meno.

Nnyaa, ke tsholeditse diatla jaanong.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, golo fa go buiwa Setswana le Sekgoa, ga go buiwe Sembukushu le Sekalaka.

You must understand the limitation ya language to many people here… MR TSOGWANE: Not a Doctor, Keorapetse.
DR GOBOTSWANG: Mr Speaker, ga ke Doctor ya Setswana… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!

)… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang!

…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang, e go opisa tlhogo?

Fa e le nna ke ka tswa mo go yone, ke bo ke boela morago.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: E boele morago fela monkane wa me.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go raya gore he has not unmuted himself ka gore o a bua, rona ga re mo utlwe.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ehe, nnyaa sorry.


Mr Speaker, a nako ya me mme o e tshwere foo?

MR SPEAKER: Ee, e tshwerwe, mme ga e thuse ba bangwe ka sepe ka gore the clock yone for these times keeps on moving.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ee, mme ke ne ke re ga ke boele morago fela, ke kopa tlhaloso fela ya gore, kana Setswapong le sone se ka nna sa ya go sele, mme se ke neng ke se bua ke gore Mosireletsi ga a na meno, ke marinini fela.
Go raya gore le fa a tsere tshwetso a MR SPEAKER: Le tlhaloganya gore this debate is timed… DR GOBOTSWANG: Ba njela nako ka bomo.

MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)…ba bangwe ba… (Inaudible)…matsogo, ga ba na nako ya go bua.

Do you understand that?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gobotswang o buile last year, o a ipuseletsa gakere.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa procedure.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Nnyaa, ba ja nako ya me ya debate Mr Speaker, a ko o leke go laola.
MR SPEAKER: Ga ke itse gore ke procedure ya eng Honourable Gobotswang, mma re mo utlwe.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Morwaeng ga a ka ke a ntsha procedure epe which stands Mr Speaker.

FOR PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE ADMINISTRATION MORWAENG): (MR Procedure.
Mpha sebaka mogolole Motlotlegi Rre 17 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) Gobotswang.

Go ntlhasela o re ke tsamaya ke rwelerwele television gongwe le gongwe motlotlegi, ga go na boammaaruri mo teng.

Bolelela batho se e leng nnete, ga se nnete motlotlegi.
Ga go boammaaruri rraetsho fa o re ke tsamaya e ntshetsetshetse morago, se ntshenye leina ka bomo morwaarre, ka boikokobetso.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are now debating and defending yourself.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O tsamaya o e rwele, o kare o rwele katara.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... MR SPEAKER: Kana nkgakgamatsa… lona Mapalamente, le a HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gape kana Gobotswang o a ipuseletsa, he debated last year on the same Motion.
MR SPEAKER: If you state your facts without mentioning anybody... HONOURABLE MEMBER: O Gobotswang.

a ipuseletsa HONOURABLE MEMBER: Morwaeng le ene o tlhola a ipuseletsa mo Television (TV).

HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, ga a tshwanela.

It is not allowed in terms of the rules to debate twice in the same Motion.

He debated last year on this Motion.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Morwaeng le ene o a ipuseletsa mo TV.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: He seeking clarification, he never debated but Gobotswang debated last year and it is not allowed.

is HONOURABLE MEMBER: A wa re go siame gore Morwaeng a nne a tshwere television.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gakere Gobotswang followed me after I responded last year, he debated, he knows.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: The record I was given does not show him as having debated.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke lawyer e e ntseng jang e e senang memory o o siameng …(Laughter!
)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yo o ka jesa batho case, hei yo.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Mr Speaker, lawyer e e senya lawyers.

O e ele tlhoko lawyer e ga e na boammaaruri.

Ke tswelele ke supe gore television le bo Radio Botswana, fa o di lebile di dirisiwa mo dintweng tsa factions tsa Domkrag.

Gompieno Mmaetsho Unity Dow, o ne a bua puo fa e le puo e e neng e le la ntlha re utlwa e buiwa ke motho wa seemo sa gagwe e bile a amana le Domkrag ka Directorate of Intelligence and Security (DIS).
Ga a ise a ko a botsolotswe gore kgang e a neng a e bua, gore Batswana ba tlhaloganye gore ke eng a ne a e bua ka tsela e a neng a e bua ka yone.

Ga go a diragala gone moo.

Gompieno dikgang tsa gore Honourable Balopi le Honourable Matsheka ba bo ba ntshitswe mo Cabinet go sa tlhalosege gore a ba kobilwe kana ba dule ka bo bone, ke dikgang tse ba ka bong ba le kwa BTV ba di tlhalosetsa Batswana, Batswana ba reetsa.
Rre Motaosane, ga gona mathata gore go nne le gore batho yo mongwe a bo a buile puo e sele yo mongwe a bo a buile e nngwe.

Se se leng teng ke gore botlhe ka bobedi jwa bone… HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… DR GOBOTSWANG: …mongwe le mongwe a bue gore o ne a e bua ka yone ke eng a ne a e bua ka tsela e a neng a e bua ka yone.

MR KEORAPETSE: Clarification.


Just in one second Honourable Gobotswang, kana ke moka jaanong rona ba kganetso re kobilweng kwa BTV, re kile ra bo re ya koo kwa thulaganyong ya Matlho a Phage.

Gatwe mathata ke eng under administration ya ga Rre Masisi, e le gore ga gona le fa e le ope wa kganetso yo o ka iponang a tsena ka kgoro ya BTV, a ile to debate go tla go tlhalosa gore phathi ya gagwe e emetse eng?
DR GOBOTSWANG: Go ntse jalo Honourable Member, go a lebega gore tota ke moka re ntshitsweng (banished).

Ga se rona fela.

Former President le ene ga a sa tlhole a begwa gope fela mo metsweding ya ga Goromente.

Ga ke itse gore ba tshaba eng, ka gore se setona ke gore Batswana ba tshwanetse go itse gore a reng, ba bo ba reetsa Rre Masisi gore a reng.

Batswana ba bo ba kgona gore ba bone gore yo tota ba utlwang a bua puo e ba ka tsamaelanang le ene ke ofe.
Bo ATI, Moruti Thuso Tiego ba nnile le intervention, ba dirile dilo dingwe tse mo ditsong tsa lefatshe le, di ne di tshwanetse gore Batswana ba ka bo ba di utlwile ba bo ba di bona mo BTV.

Ga go a diragala.
Ga go a diragala.

18 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) Ke kile ka gakgamala e le gore Honourable Lucas o na le bone kwa Bobonong le bo Rre Seeletso gotwe o ne a bua koo, mme e rile fa go ya go tswa mo TV ke fa go bua motho fela o tsene foo, Mopalamente wa kgaolo ga a tsena, ke dilo fela tse di gakgamatsang.
Honourable Leader of the Opposition (LOO) le ene a le kwa Maun, a le kwa Kgotleng a bua dikgang fela tse ditona tse setšhaba se neng sa rata dikgang tsa teng, ke fa le ene a seyo mo BTV.

Ra re nnyaa, a go dirwe molao o o ka dirang gore BTV le diromamowa di tsamaelane le seemo sa bo BBC le SABC.

Ke tsone tse re di batlang, ka gore di tsamaisiwa ka makgetho a Batswana Honourable Motaosane.

Ga se bo GABZ FM kana Duma FM.

Re bua ka metswedi ya dikgang e re e kgethelang, makgetho a rona a mo teng.
E seng jalo, re neeleng makgetho a rona re ye go itirela BTV ya rona... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ga re ka ke ra kgetha, fa re sena go nna re kgetha, e bo jaanong…(Interruption)…wa BTV le Radio Botswana ka fa le dirang ka teng.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Clarification.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, e bile ke a leboga Rre Gobotswang, o le mogwe kwa Kang kwa Kgalagadi North.
Ke go botse gore Motlotlegi Gobotswang, ke utlwa go buiwa ka… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mogwe wa rona.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ee, ke mogwe wa me.

O a itse le ene.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga le a bolaya.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ga re a bolaya.

Motlotlegi, ke utlwa o bua gone ka go tswa thata mo TV le ka bo SABC.

Ke go botse ka gore re tshela re bala dipampiri tsa bo South Africa le tsa Botswana, go kwadilwe gore ba atle ba nne le mathata bogolo jang mo dituelong tsa babereki, a mme o itse bothata jo?
Ke go botse gape gore, Tona o buile gore it was advertised gore fa dikompone tseo tsa televisions di ikemela, ba kae Batswana ba ba tsentseng kopo (applied) botlhe ba ikemetse?

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ga gona bagwe fa.

Ga gona nako ya bagwe fa, ke honourable Mr Speaker, o gakolole Honourable Monnakgotla gore ga gona bagwe le bakgwenyana fa.

MR SPEAKER: Your time is up, I am afraid.


HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Mr Speaker, mma ke simolole ke le dumedise mo mosong ono rraetsho le bakaulengwe Mapalamente a a tlotlegang.

Ke batla go simolola fela ke baya pego e pele.


Ke simolole ka gore ke dumela gore ngogola fa Motlotlegi Rraetsho Yandani Boko a baya Tshutiso ya gagwe, o ne a bua mafoko mangwe a e leng gore fa o ne o a reeditse, o ne o ka ipotsa gore Motion o o na le kakanyo ya gore… MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Procedure.

Mr Speaker, thank you very much.


O tlaa intshwarela mongwame, ke ne ke batlile fela gore ke kope sengwe, kana go lebakanyana ke ne ke sa itse gore tota ba ba neng ba akgetse mo Motion o ke bomang, ba ba neng ba sa akgela ke bomang.

Gongwe re tloga re felela re tsholetsa mme re kile ra akgela sir.

Fa e le gore ke golo mo go kgonagalang mongwame.

MR SPEAKER: No, we will just be eating more time.

We are just left with a few minutes before I call Honourable Boko to reply.

Honourable Brooks continue.


MR BROOKS: Honourable Boko fa a ne a bua Motion, o ne a bua mafoko a mangwe a motho a neng a ka ipotsa gore, a ke mafoko a a neng a re siametse segolo jang ba phathi e e busang gore re mo eme nokeng.

Ke tsaya gore Motion ga se potso e bile ga se statement, Motion ke go kopa Ntlo yotlhe ya Palamente gore e mo eme nokeng, e mo reetse, e seng ka go tlisa Motion ka sephathi kana ka maikutlo afe fela a a neng a o tlisa ka one.
Golo moo Mr Speaker, go ne ga nkama thata ka ipotsa gore jaanong fa Motlotlegi Yandani Boko, yo ke mo tlotlang thata e le nnake, yo a ntlotlang le nna ke le mogolole, a baya gore o a itse gore maDomkrag ba ya go gana, ba ya goreng, jaanong why does he have to bring the Motion, a kopa gore a emiwe nokeng.

Mr Speaker, gongwe fa re tswelele ka go baakanya re itse gore Motion e e tlang ke ya setšhaba e re tshwanetseng gore re e eme nokeng.
However, coming now to the issue on the table Mr Speaker, ke mo utlwa sentle ke a mo tlhaloganya e bile ke tlhaloganya diteng tsa dikgang le jaaka bakaulengwe ba ntse ba di bua gore gongwe re lebile kae re ya kwa kae.

Potso ke gore Mr Speaker, maikaelelo a gore re bo re ka tsaya BTV, RB1 le RB2 and privatise them re bo re di thusa ka resources, go ka tlisa phetogo efe mo setšhabeng.
Ke bua jaana jaaka mongwe mokaulengwe 19 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) a sa tswa go bua a supa gore, kana go setse go ntshitswe diteseletso tsa gore go ipulelwe radio and television stations tse di private.
Gone moo Mr Speaker, ke ne ka botsa gore a go ne go se maleba gore e nne tse re di thusang gore di atologe, di aname le lefatshe la Botswana?

Sephiri se se fitlhegang kwa Botswana Television (BTV), Radio Botswana (RB1) le RB2 ba tsene ka tsone ba di ntshe, ba di atolose jaaka batho bangwe ba dumela gore go na le sephiri kwa Pusong, ke sone se re sa batleng to privatise BTV and RB1.

Mr Speaker, e ne ya re ngongola ra etela sekole se se golo mo lefatsheng la Botswana sa University of Botswana (UB).
Ba ne ba feta ba re bontsha kwa go rutelwang babegadikgang le bakapaditshwantsho teng.

Ba supa gore fa go ne go kgonagala, go na le madi, ba ne ba ka anama le lefatshe ba ikemela.

E nne sekole se se ikemelang, practicals le tse dingwe jalo ba di dire kwa ntle ga sekole Mr Speaker.

Ke yone nako e re le ba Palamente re ka bo re lebile gore madi a a reng if BTV and RB2 could be privatised, re a tseye re a neele institutions tse di tshwanang le tseo gore di atolose services tsa tsone.
Ba re thapele bana ba rona ba ba tsamayang mo mebileng.

Ba thuse go upolola le go ntsha dikgang tse Batswana ba sa di itseng e le babegadikgang ba ba ikemetseng ka nosi.

Maabane jaana re letse re na le tiro kwa Bokspits, e re neng re dumela gore ba Gabz FM ba ne ba hirilwe ke ba Local Enterprise Authority (LEA) gore ba ye go thusa go anamisa dikgang tse di neng di diragala.
Gone moo Mr Speaker, go mpotsha gore Motion o o sianeng ka bokete jo bo kana, le fa re ka tsaya madi ao, ra atolosa ra a tsenya kwa Yarona FM; ga ke itse, let me just mention a few, ke sa reye gore ke lebagane le tse e leng gore already they are licensed gore ba aname le lefatshe.

Re ka kgona go fitlhelela dilo tse ka bonako.

Ke tsone dilo tse ke neng ke re Mr Speaker, Ditshutiso tse di ntseng jaana, re di atolose.
Bakaulengwe ba dumela gore Goromente o batla to own BTV, all the state radios; RB1 and RB2, and the stations tse di ikemetseng ka nosi, di upololwe gone foo.

Potso ke gore, ke le fe lefatshe actually in Southern Africa kana lefatshe lotlhe ka bophara gore le tsere radios, sengwe le sengwe and privatised them?

Ga go na lefatshe lepe le ke dumelang gore does not own radio and television ya lone jalojalo.

Re sa tswa go tswa ka mananeo a mangwe a re batlang go atolosa diteme.
Fa re atolosa... LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR SALESHANDO): Point of order.

Mr Speaker, go mo mpepeneneng gore Mopalamente Brooks is not debating Motion o o beilweng fa pele.

O bua gore di fetolelwe from state broadcaster to public broadcasters.

E sale a simolola la ntlha a bo a re o kgatlhanong le privatisation.

O kgona go utlwa ka fa a ngangang ka teng gore o ranotse gore Motion wa re, to privatise, which is not the case.

A boele mo Motion wa letsatsi.


MR SPEAKER: Honourable Brooks, you heard the advice, proceed please.

MR BROOKS: Ga ke mo utlwe sentle Mr Speaker, ga ke a utlwa Honourable Saleshando sentle.

MR SPEAKER: Kgang ya gago o kare wa re o gana privatisation mme Tshutiso ya ga Honourable Boko ga go a twe privatisation, gatwe e nne a public broadcaster.

MR BROOKS: Tanki Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker, a public broadcaster e e leng gore will be funded by Government, e ikemetse koo e le nosi, a Honourable Saleshando o batla gore bolelela gore BTV, RB1, RB2 di tswaletswe mo diatleng tsa Puso?

Mr Speaker, fa go ne go ntse jalo jaaka a akanya, we would not be covered like we are covered.

Re tshwanetse re ba thuse go atologa, ba okediwe.

Ba oketse resources tsa bone gona le gore re bo re re ba tswe mo Pusong ba ye fale, e nne mo gotweng the public broadcaster.
Mr Speaker, ba e baya ka fa ba e bayang ka teng ka gore ba batla go tshameka le go latlha setšhaba kwa ntle.

Mr Speaker, having said that, ke batla ke boele mo setlhogong jaaka motlotlegi a sa tswa go bua.

The fake news tse ba buang ka tsone, fa go na le tse dingwe tse di ikemetseng koo di le nosi jaaka Honourable Motaosane a ne a botsa potso, ke sone se ke reng di ka upolola dikgang tse ba dumelang gore ke sephiri and they are not covered.

They will be covered ka ditshenyegelo tsa Puso.


Ke sone se ke botsang gore ke sefe station mo lefatsheng la Botswana kana lefatshe le le sa laoleng television le le senang teme, radio... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Brooks o tsamaya mo sekgweng tota.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nna ke tlhapile diatla, ke tlogetse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kgang e o kgakala le yone.


20 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR BROOKS: Le fa ke ka tswa ke sa...mme ke na le bone.

MR SPEAKER: Continue Honourable Brooks.

MR BROOKS: Thank you sir.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Honourable Brooks, ke Rakgare.
MR BROOKS: Clarification sought, Rakgare.

MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Point of clarification.

Thank you very much.

Honourable Brooks, nkgonne, lebelela kgang ke e, banna ba kganetso fa o ka ela tlhoko, kgang ke gore ga ba fiwe coverage.

Fa o ne o reeditse Honourable Hikuama, a re o buisa diphuthego, he is not covered.
Ke bone ba e leng gore in the past, ba kile ba supa gore some private newspapers ga ba ba kwale sentle, e bile gape those newspapers have to be boycotted, di se ka tsa rekwa, di se ka tsa balwa bone e le ba kganetso.

A ga o bone gone mo, e le gore jaanong ba batla gore... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke wena o neng o bua jalo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mo tlogeleng a bue!

Mo tlogeleng a bue!
Mo tlogeleng a bue!

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR RAKGARE: Ga se nna ke bone gakere, ke ne ke re sa bofelo honourable... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Seganka se se neng se betsa mapodise se.

MR RAKGARE: Ka 2019 go ne go akarediwa ngangisanyo ya boTautona, mme Moeteledipele wa diphathi tsa kganetso, Rre Boko, o ne a roga Batswana re reeditse rotlhe.

A ga se gore dilo tse o batlang gore ba di tsweleditse ka gore...(inaudible)... HONOURABLE MEMBER: On a point of procedure Mr Speaker.
MR BROOKS: Mme le fa o eta o kgaoga rraetsho... MR SPEAKER: The time is up Honourable Brooks!

Honourable Dr Tshabang, you just have got three minutes.

DR TSHABANG (NKANGE): Okay.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mma ke supe gore ke ema nokeng mokaulengwe Honourable Boko mo kgannyeng e ya gore BTV, RB1, RB2 di nne state broadcasters.

Ke tsaya gore state broadcasters di na le mo gotweng greater good coverage that covers lefatshe lotlhe.
Ka moo, re batla coverage e e tswang mo BTV and RB1 e nne le content e e kwa teng, e seng e e laolwang fela ke Puso, gape e tla e na le kgolo.

E godisiwa ke professionals tse di mo industry e. At the moment, professionals tsa teng ga di gole sentle.

Di kgopakgopediwa ke Morwaeng le Rre Rakgare.

Ke bone ba o fitlhelang ba ba kgopakgopetsa.

Ba ba bolelela gore ba gase eng.

Ba a ba gatelela.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O le Botswana Congress Party (BCP) Youth Leader.
Se se supa gore professionalism fa gongwe is tampered with fa re tswelela ka system e re e dirisang gompieno.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ne o rialo ga se rona, e bile o ne o sa rongwa ke rona.

MR RAKGARE: Ke kopa go fetsa.

Re bue gape re re state broadcasters di dirisa state resources tse di tswang mo go reng mongwe le mongwe o duela tax.

Le ba ba kwa opposition le Batswana ba ba kwa tennyanateng ba duela tax… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke ne ke tlhola ke re ke a go kgalemela, o sa kgalemesege wena Chillyboy.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mo tlogeleng a bue!

MR SPEAKER: Point of order, Honourable Rakgare.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Palamenteng, ke na le video ya teng.

...(Inaudible)… DR TSHABANG: Okay, thank you.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Tlogela ngwana a bue.

MR RAKGARE: Honourable Brooks, ke... MR BROOKS: O njela nako honourable!

O njela nako!

MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Point of order.
Mr Speaker, the speaker on the floor o dule mo tseleng.

He is out of order, ga ke ise ke laele ope gore a bue jang a se ka a bua kwa go 21 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) tse ba buang ka tsone re bua ka state media, never.
Ke ne ke kopa gore a boele mafoko ao morago; o ntshenya leina, ga ke ise ke laele ope gore a kwale jang a bege jang a se ka a bege jang.

Ke kopa a bue fela.

Fa e le gore ga a tlhaloganye gore go buiwa ka eng, a bue ka gore a ga gona COVID kwa kgaolong ya gagwe, a se ka a bua dikgang tse a di buang a ntshenya leina.

MR BOKO (MAHALAPYE EAST): Tla ke go leboge Mr Speaker.
Mma ke go leboge Mr Speaker go bo o mphile nako e go ka tsibogela se Batlotlegi Mapalamente ba se buileng fa ba… MR SPEAKER: You have 20 minutes Honourable Member.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O palelwa ke Trevor Motlokwa, o tlhola o nnetse rona gone fa.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gatwe ba go sentse leina kwa kgaolong.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Tshabang, the Minister says he has not directed anybody.

DR TSHABANG: Okay Mr Speaker, I was just summing up the fact that he is under the current Government.
Ke ne ke sa reye ene specifically.

Ene se a se buileng fela ke gore nako e a neng a le kwa kganetsong o ne a re we should boycott dipampiri tse di neng di sa bue kganetso sentle a bo a tloga a sia ka mafoko a teng.

Mr Speaker, I think what I am going to focus on here ke gore content e e leng teng mo Botswana Television (BTV)… MR RAKGARE: Further point of order.

DR TSHABANG: …and RB2 is limited.

MR SPEAKER: Nako e tsamaile anyway.

MR RAKGARE: Nako e tsamaile mme motho o ntshenya leina Mr Speaker.
This guy cannot be speaking like this.

DR TSHABANG: You cannot call me “this guy.” MR SPEAKER: A re o ne a sa bue ka wena as a person, o ne a bua ka wena as part of that Government.

MR RAKGARE: Mr Speaker, he is saying fa ke le kwa kganetsong ke rile we should boycott dipampiri kana diromamowa (radios), ga ke ise ke rialo.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: His time is up Honourable Minister.

Honourable Dr Tshabang, your time is up.


I now give the floor to Honourable Boko to reply to the debate.

DR TSHABANG: Do not call me a guy…(Laughter!

)… MR RAKGARE: Keorapetse, you are a guy, ke ene yo o neng a re we should boycott dipampiri.

MR BOKO: …tsibogela se ke neng ke se beile fa pele.
Mr Speaker, ke simolola gape ke re ke kopa Batlotlegi Mapalamente botlhe go tswa kwa kganetsong le bone ba ba busang gore re dumalaneng ka bongwefela jwa pelo mo Tshutisong e ke e beileng pele Ntlo e e tlotlegang.

Ke ntshitse mabaka a le mantsi a gore ke eng Tshutiso e e tshwanetse gore e atlege.

Mapalamente ba kganetso le bone ba dirile fela ka tsela e e ntseng jalo gore ke eng ba dumela gore Motion o o tshwanetse gore o atlege.
Re tswelele gape Mr Speaker, re ikapole mebala ya diphathi re tlhaloganye gore fa gongwe fa re tla ka Motions re a bo re sa tle ka tsone ka gore re batla go ithatisa bape fela.

Re tla ka tsone ka mabaka a gore re a bo re romilwe ke ba ba re tlhophileng go tla go ba emela mo Ntlong e ya Palamente Mr Speaker.

Re tswe mo go reng nnyaa, kana Motion o ga re ka ke ra dumalana le one ka mabaka a gore o ne o tla ka semangmang kana o ne o sa tle ka semangmang.
Ke ne ke reeditse Batlotlegi Mapalamente ba bangwe Mr Speaker, ba phathi e e busang and I do not like to say this but I trembled convulsively fa ke ba reeditse.

Mongwe wa bone wa bofelo go bua ke yo o neng a botsa potso ya gore what change will it bring?

Ke ne ke tlhabilwe ke ditlhong go feta gore Motlotlegi Mopalamente o ka botsa e e ntseng jaana mo Palamenteng a reeditswe ke setšhaba gore go ka tlisa pharologano efe.

Re tlhalositse gore ke eng re batla gore Motion o nne jaaka re ne re o beile.
Ke a tlhaloganya Mr Speaker, gore Motlotlegi Mopalamente go lebega a ne a tsamaya mo sekgweng se se bapileng le lebitla ka mabaka a gore o ne a sa tlhaloganya Motion ka fa o ne o beilwe ka teng.

Mr Speaker, ke a mo itshwarela ka ke tlhaloganya limitations tse re nang natso re le batho re le mo Palamenteng.

Ke a tswelela Mr Speaker, gore ke ne ke kopa Ntlo e to transform BTV le Radio Botswana from state broadcasters to public broadcasters.
Ke se se neng se kopiwa ke nna ka Tshutiso e. Ga gona gope fa ke neng ke bua ka dikgang tsa privatisation teng Mr Speaker.

Re ledile ka gore BTV is a political mouthpiece of the ruling party for its own political gains or agendas.
Go itshupile mo lebakeng le le fetileng gore BTV tota e bile 22 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) ke lebagane le yone Mr Speaker, e dirisiwa e le sebetsa ke babusi go fetisa se ba batlang gore se fete; go lwa dintwa ka sepolotiki, ba lwa le mapolotiki a kganetso kana ba lwa ka bobone.
Mr Speaker, o foo ke fano; ga o kitla o bona ka lepe letsatsi mo nakong e khutshwane sepe se se ka dirwang ke Honourable Mpho Balopi, le fa a ka bitsa phuthego ya mokatakata ka a dira sepe fela, you will never see him being covered by BTV.

Fa go ka diragala Mr Speaker… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kante gone, ke eng le rata go lwantsha batho?

MR BOKO: …ke ka go fa podi.

Mr Speaker, ke kopa gore o ntshireletse mo go Tona yo mošha.
Ke a itse gore it excites to be given a position fa o ne o sa e solofela and not deserving it.

Mr Speaker, o ntshireletse ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Mr Speaker, Motion o ga se la ntlha o tla.

Go kile ga tla Motion wa mofuta o ka nako ya bo Isaac Mabiletsa e bile o ne o tla ka ene Isaac Mabiletsa mme wa se ka wa feta ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Re o tlisitse gape gompieno ka tsholofelo ya gore bagarona ba tlaa dumalana le rona o fete ka fa re kopang gore o fete ka teng.
Dipampiri di kwadilwe and I remember there was a presentation or paper which was presented at one seminar by some guy called Richard Rooney which was entitled, if I quote Mr Speaker, “BTV failing the people: An analysis of Botswana Television News, 2014”, e e neng e tlhalosa gore the content ya BTV e substandard.

Gongwe nako e gorogile gore jaanong re e ntshe fa e leng teng go nne le an independent body e e leng gore e tlaa tsamaisa BTV le RB 2 gareng ga tse dingwe.
Ga ke eletse go ka bua lebaka le letelele ka gore go bua lebaka le letelele… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR BOKO: Who is that?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mathoothe.

MR BOKO: Mathoothe and Honourable Tshabang.

MR SPEAKER: Mathoothe.

MR MATHOOTHE: Clarification.


Through you Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re dikgang tse o di buang gore ba na le go ikgagapelela, a o raya tsone tse di tshwanang le tse di kileng tsa diragala kwa motseng wa Mabuo fa nne former President Khama a ne a ile go abela bana ba sekole bus, mo clip ya teng e le moabi, a bo a sa tsenngwe gope?

A o raya tsone dikgang tsa go nna jalo gore ba nna selective fa ba setse ba bega dikgang tsa go nna jalo?

Thank you.
Thank you.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Bus e ne e sa abiwe ke ene, e bile e ne e sa tswe kwa go ene.

MR BOKO: Go ka se ke ga tlhoka gore ba nne selective ka gore ka fa ba ntseng ka teng, maikaelelo a bone ke go leka go ikgodisa, go leka go ntsha dintle tse e leng gore di dirwa ke bone mme dimpe tse e leng gore di dirwa ke bone re ka se ka ra di bona mo BTV Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, ke tsena mo kgannyeng e nngwe, ditlhopho kana elections can never be free and fair when the state television promotes the campaign of one political party to the exclusion of the others.

Re nna re bua ka free and fair elections; a mme di tlaa nna tsone Mr Speaker fa e le gore jaaka Honourable Hikuama a ne a tlhalosa gore ene o dirile diphuthego di feta 200 mme gongwe he was covered gabedi kana gararo?
Go a supa gone foo gore ba gogela kobo ka fa go a supa gone foo gore ba gogela kobo ka fa ntlheng ya bone.

Mr Speaker, go na le Mapalamente mangwe, and Honourable Motaosane was one of them, ba ba neng ba bua kgang ya gore, go tlile go felela go nna le dikgang tsa fake news, where can they be rebutted, and di ntse di le teng.

Fa e le gore re tswelela ka fa BTV e ntseng ka teng, the way it is sanctioned ka teng gompieno le RB2 di a go tswelela di nna teng.
Mme fa re ka tsaya BTV ra e ntsha fa e leng teng ra e isa golo gongwe, fund it, ra tswelela funding it, e na le an independent board running it, e ka fokotsa dikgang tsa fake news, because sengwe le sengwe se se diragalang se re tshwanetseng go se itse re a se itse.

Maloba go ne go na le fake news ka botsogo jwa ga Motlotlegi Tautona, lefatshe lotlhe, bangwe ba ne ba botsa gore Tautona botsogo jwa gagwe bo ntse jang.
Bangwe ba rona re lala re rapela bosigo re sa itse gore re rapelela eng, re fetsa dibeke tsotlhe re rapela, re itima dijo.

Re dira dilo tse tsotlhe tse ka mabaka a gore go ne go kwadilwe mo dipampiring gotwe Motlotlegi Tautona ga a a tsoga, bangwe ba re, nnyaa o tsogile mme go na le se, bangwe ba bua dikgang tse di neng di buiwa, tse dingwe tse re ka sekeng ra di bua gone fa, ka a sitting President.
Ga se ka ga nna le sepe se se tswang kwa BTV, gongwe mongwe a tla a ema kana Tona wa kwa Ofising ya ga Tautona a tlhalosa mo BTV a re, nnyaa dikgang tse di buiwang tseo, those 23 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) are fake news ba ga rona, Tautona o siame, botsogo jwa gagwe ke bone sentle, o tlaa tla le tlaa mmona mo nakong e khutshwane.
That would have been done Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Let me Clarification honourable.

clarify.

MR BOKO: Fake news Mr Speaker, the fake news are going to continue fa e le gore seemo se ntse ka fa se ntseng ka teng, dikgang tse dingwe di fitlhiwa.

Once we change seemo ka fa se ntseng ka teng, dikgang tse re batlang go di itse re a go felela re di bona, ga go na sepe se se tlaa fitlhiwang.
Mr Speaker, o tlaa gakologelwa gore nako nngwe Reginald Richardson, because Mopalamente yo mongwe e bile o ne a bua ka kgang ya gore fa gongwe dilo ga di itsiwe tse di tshwanetseng go tswa... HONOURABLE Honourable Boko.

MEMBER: Clarification MR BOKO: Just a second.
Reginald Richardson nako nngwe fa a berekela, I think BTV, go ne ga diragala gore go nne le kgang ya gore a bue gore, Mapalamente kana botlhe bo Tona mo lefatsheng ba tswe ba tsene mo mebileng ba kgone to disclose status sa bone sa mogare wa Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome(HIV/AIDS), mme o ne a kwalelwa lekwalo le lengwe le le neng le tshosa, a tlhalosetswa gore o tlaa kobiwa mo tirong fa e le gore o batla to promote dilo tse di ntseng jaana.
Go a supa fela gore ba ga rona ba ba berekelang makalana one a le fa gongwe ba tla ka megopolo e e leng yone, babegadikgang, ba eletsa go di bega ba phuthologile, go na le mongwe yo o tswelelang a ba kubetsa ka fa morago a re, “nnyaa seo ga o a tshwanela go se bua, se o tshwanetse go se bua.” So there is no independence mo go ba e leng gore they report for RB1, RB2 le BTV Mr Speaker.

MR RAKGARE: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.

Thank you very much.

Tanki tsala ya me.


Ke re Honourable Boko ke go reeditse, e bile ke a utlwa tsala ya me ka fa o tshwereng dikgang ka teng.

Jaanong kana e ne ya re fa o bega kgang e, Motion o, o supa gore o batla BTV e tshwane le maphata a a tshwanang le bo SABC.

So my question is, in the past go setse go kile ga supagala gore SABC e ntse e le a public broadcaster go nnile le dikgang tsa maladministration gone koo or poor governance.
E bile gape golo moo go ne go felela go dira gore Puso e tshele madi mo SABC mme e latlhegelwa, ka gore it was making losses.

That is number one.

Number two; why do you not think along the lines tsa gore BTV le bo Radio Botswana must be privatised jaaka re bona Botswana Telecommunications Corporation (BTC) e ntse.

So that re kgone gore re le Batswana, gongwe e bile gape le bone batlhophi ba kgaolo ya gago ba kgone go reka diabe, jaaka re itse gore BTC e bile is listed mo Botswana Stock Exchange (BSE).
Ke re dilo tse gongwe o di re tlhatswetse mokaulengwe, gore o di tlhaloganya ka tsela e e ntseng jang?

Ke a leboga.

DR TSHABANG: On a point of clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Rre Boko, you made a reference to an article o bua analysis tsa yone, e ne e le ‘BTV fails the people,’ e ne e le analysis ya BTV news, gore content e kwa tlase or is limited.
Akere mme you know from that analysis go ne go supiwa gore content e kwa tlase, because of the nature of the television station, e gateletswe ke Puso, gore e se ka ya oketsa content, and that deficiency is not from the professionals themselves, ke kgatelelo ya puso?

Akere we are making that clear distinction gore ga se ba ba berekang, ke ba e leng gore ba dirisa BTV for their own interest?

Thank you very much.


MR BOKO: Mma ke go tsibogele Honourable Dr Tshabang, ke dumalana le wena… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Sale ke kopile clarification Honourable Boko gore o di arabe tsotlhe sir?

MR BOKO: Nnyaa, ke tlaa tla ke boela kwa go wena.

You know it is a torture to listen to BTV, one; the news are pathetic, the content is pathetic.

Ga go na tatso kana kgogedi go ka lebelela BTV.


Fa gongwe go sa reye gore ba ba berekang kwa BTV ba ba ithutetseng dikgang tseo kwa University of Limkokwing, gareng ga universities tse dingwe, ga go reye gore ba tlhoka botsipa joo, ba na le jone.

Mathata ke gore ba gateletswe ke bogogi.


Bana ba Modimo re kopana le bone, some of them are our friends, ba re bolelela gore, re ne re leka go ka tokafatsa mathata ke gore fa re leng teng ga re letlelelwe go ka nna innovative, ga re letlelelwe go ka tlhabolola seemo sa BTV.

Ke one mathata a re nang nao.

Honourable Rakgare, I think you will bring your Motion wa to privatise, gompieno Motion wa me o ga o bue sepe ka to privatise, I am not even interested in that.
Ke batla gore BTV e tswe kwa Ofising ya ga Tautona, e se ka ya laolwa ke Tautona, jaaka gompieno e le gore ke sedirisiwa kana sebetsa se se dirisiwang ke Ofisi ya ga Tautona kana lona le le babusi.
24 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) Tla ke neele Honourable Morwaeng, ke dumela gore o tla ka sengwe se se tlhabologileng ka a tswa kwa Ofising ya ga Tautona.

Mma ke mo leke fela.

FOR PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Mma ke go leboge mokaulengwe Motlotlegi Boko.
Ke re, mme o aware mokaulengwe gore mo sebakeng se re buang ka sone jaana local content go berekelwa mo go yone gore e ye go nna 80 per cent, ke raya jaaka ke bua le wena jaana.

Sa bobedi ke re, Honourable Boko o aware gore dikgang tse tsa fake news tse o neng o bua ka tsone o re gongwe re ka bo re arabile, fake news ga se nngwe le nngwe e re ka e arabang.
Ke gore ke raya gore a o dumela gore e nne e re nako le nako Honourable Boko fa go buiwa tse di buiwang, di dule mo tseleng re bo re arabisanya le fake news, jaaka o supa fa batho bangwe ba tlaopa boeteledipele, kana Moeteledipele rraetsho Tautona, re bo re lepalepana le tsone.

Re ka seke re tsamaise Puso jalo.

Tse dingwe we do not even have to talk ka tsone, ka gore tota e a bo e le go senya nako.
Ka tsela eo ke re, e le ya 80 per cent, le gore gone jaana to the best of our knowledge, stations tse di farologanyeng ba na le access ya gore ba thusiwa ke yone this... MR BOKO: Nnyaa ke utlwile, ke utlwile honourable, thank you so much.
Ke lemogile gore o tlile go tshaba e e leng gore gongwe will expose you, ke ne ke solofetse gore gongwe you will spend a minute mo go yone, ya gore le fiwa coverage e ntsi Honourable Morwaeng, segolo jang wena, fa o tswa o ya gym, re go bone o tlola koi, exercising, o ntshiwa, ke go bone o ya morakeng.

Ke gore sengwe le sengwe se o se dirang BTV e nna e ntse fela jaana mo go wena, e go lebeletse.

That is what is not desirable in a democratic society.
MR MORWAENG: O a itse gore it is not true Honourable Boko what you are saying.

MR BOKO: Wena o itshwareletse ka kgang ya gore gatwe go tlaa nna 80 per cent content, ga go ise go diragale, wa re gatwe go tlaa nna 80 per cent.

That can never be the only reason ya gore jaanong Motion o o se ka wa pasa, ka gore la re le tlaa dira 80 per cent local content.
That can never be a good reason Honourable Morwaeng, and ke ne ke go neela ke ntse ke itse gore o a go tlisa dikgang tse di ntseng jaana setšhaba se go reeditse.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke sa batle go nna moleele mo dikgannye tse.

Ke di buile.

Ke kopa Batlotlegi Mapalamente gore a re dumalaneng Motion o, a re imololeng fa gongwe re kgabetseng yone Puso, kana ke jaaka re leka go le kgabetsa, gore kamoso re se ka ra tsoga re lebeletswe gotwe ga re dire dilo sentle.
Jaanong botoka the blame should be shifted, should be elsewhere… MR KEORAPETSE: Clarification.

Misconception yoo wa gore public broadcasters di dira losses; yes, SABC has had its problems, but 2021, it made profit ya R43 million.

BBC as we speak, e dirile profit ya £227 million.

Ke ne ke re ke clarify yone eo mokaulengwe, le gore le madi a ka boela Puso.

E bile gape ke tlhalose gone gore kana fa re bua ka state broadcasters, Goromente le Palamente are involved mo go tsamaiseng le board.
Tota fela ke sone se re se batlang seo gore re ngaporolole BTV, RB1 le RB2 mo botshwarweng le bokgoba jwa party e e busang.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs).... MR BOKO: Ke a leboga Honourable Keorapetse.

Ke lebogela kgakololo yone eo.

Kana nngwe ya se ba kganetso ba tshwanetseng go se dira ke go ruta bone ba e leng gore gatwe ba re eteletse pele ka gore jaaka ke tlhalositse mo nakong e e fa morago, ba bangwe ba mo sekgweng se se bapileng le mabitla.
Re tlaabo re tsaya letsatsi lotlhe re debate gone fa mme e se gore ba tlhaloganya gore go direga eng.

Ke sone se o utlwang a bua ka losses tse e leng gore ga di na boammaaruri.

He is one of the Members of Parliament (MPs) ba ba mo sekgweng se se bapileng le mabitla.

Mr Speaker, ke buile mafoko a ke neng ke tshwanetse gore ke a bue, ga ke eletse go nna motelele mo teng.
Ke kopa Batlotlegi Mapalamente ke ikoba, ke a le ikobela bagarona mme ga ke le ikobele ka mabaka a gore ke batla go tla go ikgalaletsa ka Motion o. Ke ikoba ka mabaka a gore ke romilwe ke batho ba kwa Mookane, Shakwe, Xhosa 1, Tidimalo le ba dikgaolo tsotlhe tse ke di eteletseng pele gore ba re ba kopa gore Motion o, le o fetise.

Le se ka la re nnyaa gompieno re bakisa Boko ka gore motho yo o batlang, ga se nna.
Le ne le bua maloba fa re bua ka dikgang tsa bo Financial Action Task Force (FATF) gore nnyaa re tshwanetse go kopisa mo mafatsheng a mangwe.

Ke batla go bona gore a mme le batho ba ba kopisang go boammaaruri.
Fa e le gore le batho ba ba kopisang jaaka maloba le re 25 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) mafatshe a mangwe; the international trend is moving towards recommendations tsa bo FATF among others.

Even now, the international trend is moving towards Motion o e leng gore I presented fa pele ga lona.
Ke batla go bona gore a mme le na le boammaaruri mo go se le neng le se bua mo pakeng e e fetileng.

Mr Speaker, ga ke batle go go tseela nako e telele, ke ikoba mo go Honourable Kgafela gore re kopa gore o dumalane le rona, Honourable Balopi, Honourable Lefoko Moagi, Honourable Thulagano Segokgo, gareng ga ba bangwe ba e leng gore bone ba santse ba se gope gautshwane le sekgwa se se bapileng le mabitla.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ka jalo ke kopa gore Motion o o fete Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!


Honourable Members.

Probably we should do the thing which will not delay us because of voices we shall not hear.

Let us go straight away to calling each Honourable Member for a vote.

Honourable Members, get ready to vote as your name is being called.
Honourable Members, your names shall be called, those who agree with the Motion will say “Aye,” those who have contrary view will say “Nay or No.” CLERK: MEMBER’S NAME His Excellency Dr Masisi Honourable Autlwetse Honourable Balopi Honourable Boko Honourable Brooks Honourable Billy Honourable Dr Dikoloti Honourable Dr Dow Honourable Gare Honourable Dr Gobotswang Honourable Greeff Honourable Hikuama Honourable Kablay Honourable Kapinga Honourable Kekgonegile Honourable Keorapetse Honourable Kereng Honourable Kgafela Honourable Khama Honourable Dr Kwape Honourable Lesedi Honourable Lelatisitswe Honourable Lesaso Honourable Dr Letsholathebe Honourable Letsholo Honourable Leuwe Honourable Lucas Honourable Majaga Honourable Makwinja Honourable Manake 26 AYE NO ABSTAIN ABSENT √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) Honourable Mangwegape-Healy Honourable Mathoothe Honourable Dr Matsheka Honourable Mmolotsi Honourable Mmusi Honourable Moabi Honourable Moagi Honourable Moatlhodi Honourable Modukanele Honourable Mokgethi Honourable Molale Honourable Molao Honourable Molebatsi Honourable Monnakgotla Honourable Morwaeng Honourable Moswaane Honourable Motaosane Honourable Motsamai Honourable Mthimkhulu Honourable Mzwinila Honourable Nkawana Honourable Pule Honourable Rakgare Honourable Ramogapi Honourable Reatile Honourable Regoeng Honourable Saleshando Honourable Segokgo Honourable Serame Honourable Shamukuni Honourable Thiite Honourable Dr Tshabang Honourable Tshere His Honour Tsogwane √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible) … the results of your voting; the ‘Noes’ 23, the Absent 16.
So the ‘Noes’ have it.

Question put and negated.


27 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022TRANSFORMATION OF BOTSWANA TELEVISION (BTV) AND RADIO BOTSWANA (RB1 AND RB2) FROM STATE BROADCASTERS (STATE CONTROLLED) TO PUBLIC BROADCASTERSMotion (Resumed Debate) COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS Motion MR KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Ke tlaa bua Tshutiso e ka Setswana, ke tlaa leka thata.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, Tshutiso ke jaaka o e badile gore tota e ne e le gore Palamente e tseye tshwetso (resolution) ya gore e kope Motlotlegi Tautona gore a tlhome lekoko la ditlhotlhomiso le e leng gore kopo e tlaa nna gore le fa a na le dithata tsa go supa mongwe le mongwe yo a ka mo supang, mme bogolo yo a ka mo supang ka monwana, e bo e le Moatlhodi wa Kgotla Kgolo ya Ditsheko yo a leng mo setilong kana yo o retired.
Tota lekoko le la ditlhotlhomiso maikaelelo a lone ke gone gore le lebelele kgang ya tshenyetso- setšhaba gore tota e bakwa ke eng, e jweleletse go le kae, ditlamorago tsa yone ke eng mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Le gore e aname go le kae yone le go gopela itsholelo.

Gape lekoko lone le, le lebelele dikgang tsone tsa go dira dilo ka tshokamo (mismanagement or maladministration) le gone mo e leng gore dilo ga di direlwe mo tshiamong kana mo pontsheng.
Maikaelelo a Tshutiso e ke gone gore kwa bofelelong re lopa gore report ya lekoko le, e bo e ka phatlaladiwa; kana e nna public.

Maikaelelo ke gore kwa bofelong le bo le ka supa gore go tlhaela fa kae mo policies tse di leng teng, mo makalaneng a a leng teng, go tlhaela fa kae mo go tse di setseng di dirwa le mo melaong e e setseng e le teng.

Tota Tshutiso ka bokhutshwane ke ka fa o e badileng ka teng, e balega jalo ka Setswana Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Tshutiso e e tsamaelana le se se builweng ke party ya Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) mo maitlamong a yone a 2019 fa o lebelela mo Page 18 fa e buang ka governance, anti-corruption and human rights go yeng kwa Page 19 e e leng gore fa o ntetlelela ke ka nopola dingwe dintlha mo go one.

MR SPEAKER: Please do.

MR KEORAPETSE: E balega jaana Page 19 “nations prosper or fail on account of how they are led and governed.
The experience of successful nations teaches 28 us that for a nation to develop and prosper, it must have two things at a minimum; one is ethical, competent, transparent and farsighted leadership.
The second is good governance, manifest good laws, good policies and good institutions.” Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, maitlamo a UDC a ne a supa gone gore tota gore lefatshe le fitlhelela kwa pele, le tshwanetse gore le nne le tsone tse ke setseng ke di buile gore dilo di dirwe mo pontsheng, dilo di dirwe mo tshiamong, melao e nne e e siameng, boeteledipele bo nne le ponelopele, go lwantshiwe le yone tshenyetso-setšhaba.
Fa ke tswelela gongwe ke nopola one maitlamo a Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, go na le fa go balegang gore “the biggest threat to Botswana’s development today is not lack of resources, we have plenty.

Our crisis of development arises from a crisis of leadership and governance.” Mathata a matona a mo tsamaisong, tsamaiso ke yone e fa e ka tokafadiwang, re ka ya golo gongwe re le lefatshe.
lekoko tsa Palamente, ke Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tlaa simolola fela ka go bua gore tota fa re lebeletse seemo sa tshenyetso-setšhaba mo lefatsheng la Botswana, re lebeletse sekale se se kalwang ke baeladilotlhoko, ke tlaa nopola gongwe ba le babedi fela.
Sa ntlha ke tlaa simolola gore fa re lebelela report ya 2020 ya Afrobarometer, Afrobarometer ke la ditlhotlhomiso le le kgobokantseng bomankge ba dithuto tse di farologanyeng, e ka nna ba bo statistics, demography, political science, economics, social work, tota fela social scientists ka go farologana.

Tota maikaelelo e le gone go sekaseka ka fa bo Goromente le mafatshe kana puso ya batho ka batho le itsholelo di tsamayang ka teng.
E rile fa ba tlhodumela lefatshe la Botswana ba re, mo pegong ya bone e ba neng ba e beile ba re “Corruption Crossroads,” ba ne ba supa gore sephatlo (50 per cent) sa Batswana, ba dumela gore tshenyetso-setšhaba e tsholetsegile, e ile kwa godimo.

Yone Afrobarometer e supa gore baeteledipele ba ba tlhophilweng, elected leadership, ke bone ba bontsi jwa Batswana ba ba lebelelang e le batho ba ba senyetsang setšhaba.
Ke maikutlo a Batswana mo the Corruption Perception Survey e e neng e dirwa ke Afrobarometer.

Gatwe Batswana ba le supa mo go ba le lesome (70 per cent), ba re ba tshaba gore fa ba ka report tshenyetso- setšhaba, go ka nna, ga nna le ditlamorago tse di sa eletsegeng.

Ba na le fear of retaliation fa ba ka report corruption, go bua Batswana.
Bontsi jwa Batswana fa ba Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion botswa ka scandal sa National Petroleum Fund (NPF), gatwe ba ne ba sa dumele gore mme e tlaare fa lerole le kaologa, go bo go na le mongwe yo o lebisitsweng molato e bile go kgonegile gore a bo a sekisiwe, a bo a ka bonwa molato.
Ba ne ba sena tsholofelo ya gore kgang e e tlaa rarabologa ka tsela e go tlaa felelang e le gore bangwe ba ile kwa kgolegelong.

Ke seemo sa tshenyetso-setšhaba ka fa se lebiwang ka teng, ke baeladilotlhoko, e seng UDC kana phathi epe ya kganetso.
Se sengwe se se latelang Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke gore ba Transparency International, go ne go supa gore lefatshe la Botswana mo dingwageng di le dintsi, ke dumela gore fa e sale Botswana a tsenngwa mo sekaleng sa Transparency International, o ne a ntse a le the least corrupt country mo lefatsheng.
Report ya ngwaga o Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, the latest report e ke dumelang gore ke ya 2021, ka gore ngwaga o ke gone o simololang, e supa gore Botswana o wetse kwa tlase ka dintlha di le tlhano mo sekaleng sa Corruption Perception Index.

E ne e ntse e le ene a tsayang number one mo Africa, mme gompieno ke three, a gaisiwa ke lefatshe la Seychelles le Cape Verde.

Ke ka fa tshekatsheko ya ba ba ikemetseng, ba re kalang ka teng, ba re lebeletseng ka teng.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, modupi wa dibuka tsa Puso, Auditor General, gangwe le gape le ene dikgang tse o a ne a di bua.

Le fa e le gore ene ga a bue a re ke corruption kana ke tshenyetso-setšhaba, mme o supa gore dilo ga di dirwe ka fa tshiamong mo tsamaisong ya ga Goromente.

One of the latest reports tsa modupi wa dibuka tsa Puso, e ne e le yone e e neng e lebeletse ka fa go tsamaisitsweng ka teng ka nako ya COVID-19.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, re a itse go nnile le scandals tsone tsa bo NPF, Capital Management Botswana (CMB) tse di supang gore tota lefatshe la Botswana ga le a iketla fa go tla mo dikgannyeng tsa tshenyetso-setšhaba.

Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC) yone ya reng, lekgotla le le lebeletseng dikgang tse tsa corruption.

Fa o lebelela mo dipegong tsa DCEC ka go farologana, ba supa gore tshenyetso-setšhaba le go gopela itsholelo, di teng.
Ba supa gore mengwe ya melato fela fa o tsaya lekgotla fa le sale le ntsha dipego tsa bone, melato e e tshwanang le ya bo conflict of interest, mo batho gongwe ba nna le karolo mo go abeng tenders kana ba tsaya ditshwetso, ba felela gongwe ba sa bue gore ba na le interests tse di ntseng jang, melato eo ba kile ba e bona.

Ba bone melato e e tshwanang le yone ya bo abuse of office, o na le ofisi a bo e le gore jaanong o e dirisa ka fa go sa tshwanelang ka teng gore o ikhumise.
Molato o mongwe o o common ke one o ka fa molaong ba o bitsang ba re valuable consideration kana bribe ka parlance e e tlwaelesegileng.

Ke pipamolomo ka Setswana, ke mo gotweng ntshware foo, ke go tshware, kana njesa ke go jese, go tlwaelesegile gone moo.

Tenders which are rigged ke mathata a e leng gore not only the DCEC, le yone Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Board (PPADB) e tswa kgakala e ntse e bua ka gone.
Bogodu jwa dithoto tsa Puso, money laundering, go tila lekgetho, fraud, embezzlement, go utswa madi a Puso ka ditsela tse di botlhajana, ke dingwe tsa dikgang tse di leng teng.

Dingwe tsa dikgang tse di leng teng Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, le fa e le gore ga di fall squarely mo category ya corruption and economic crime, ke dikgang tsa wastage.

The 37 per cent yo o neng a buiwa which falls through the cracks mo budget ya lefatshe la Botswana.
Dikgang tse di tshwanang le go tsewa ga ditshwetso fela tse di felelang di lopa Puso madi a mantsi, go felela go nna le dithoto tse di rekilweng, mme di sa dirisiwe, gongwe tse ba reng white elephants.

Imprudence, mo e leng gore ga go tsamaisiwe itsholelo sentle kana madi a Puso a tshwarwa makgwakgwa.

Fa gongwe go rekiwa dilo tse di turang, mme e le gore go na le tse di ka bong di emiseditse tseo kana tse di tshwanang le tsone mme di sa ture.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, mongwe o ka botsa gone fa gore ke eng go tshwanelwa gore go nne le lekoko la ditlhotlhomiso?

Ke batla go tlhalosa kgang e ka botlalo.

E re go e tlhalosa, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke tlhalose gore go na le suggestions di le dintsi and di kgaokgaogane.
Moitseanape mongwe o a ne a kwala a general article kana book chapter, a bo a kwala ka tshenyetso-setšhaba mo lefatsheng la Botswana gore e bakwa ke eng, ditlamorago tsa yone ke eng, e jweleletse go le kae, go ka dirwa eng.

Kgantelenyana go bua DCEC le yone gore go ka tuana.
E rile ka dingwaga tsa bo 2007/2008, go ne ga tla rre mongwe yo o kileng ya nna moeteledipele wa lekgotla le le tshwanang le la tshenyetso-setšhaba le go gopela itsholelo, a tswa kwa lefatsheng la England, mme a kile a berekela kwa lefatsheng la Hong Kong, a bidiwa gotwe ke Bertrand de Speville.

De Speville o ne a eteletse lekoko le le neng le tlhotlhomisa gore tshenyetso-setšhaba mo Botswana, anti-corruption strategy gatwe se ka tokafadiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
29 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion Le ene o ne a kwala pego ya gagwe, tshekatsheko e e ne e rotloetswa ke European Union (EU) fa ke gopola sentle.

Dingwe dintlha tse a neng a di bua le ene, e ne ya nna gore a re lebelele mandate wa DCEC.
Re lebelele gore DCEC e nne le corruption booths ka gore bontsi jwa batho ba ba begang corruption, ba tla ka namana, ga ba kwale e-mails kana ba letsa.

Jaanong fa go ka nna le corruption booths around the country, gongwe ke gone mo go ka tsholetsang serodumo sa DCEC gore batho ba kgone to report.

O ne a bua ka go ikemela ka nosi ga DCEC gore e ne e ka etelelwa ke an independent board, e emisa go nna lekalana la Puso le le ka fa tlase ga Ofisi ya ga Tautona.

Ke dingwe tsa suggestions tse a neng a di bua.


Ba kganetso le bone mo maitlamong a bone, ba a bua gore go ka tweng ka tshenyetso-setšhaba.

Ba phathi e e busang ba a bua gore go na le tshenyetso-setšhaba, mme e ka dirwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, tumelo ya rona e bo e nna gore, ka gore fa o tsere motho wa seemo se se tshwanang le Judge, Judges are trained to pursue complex inquiries, they are trained fa ba nna Judges, diagente le go dira yone tiro eo.
Ke sone se re dumelang gore a re tleng mo nakong ya gore jaanong, re soboke dintlha tse tsotlhe tse ba phathi e e busang, ba kganetso, DCEC, bomaitseanape, bomankge, babegadikgang le makalana a a ikemetseng ba nang le suggestions tsa bone, tse e kareng fa go na le lekoko le la ditlhotlhomiso, ba ka tsamaya ba ya to present dikgang tsa bone, a bo e le gore di a sobokiwa.

A bo e le gore kwa morago re dumalana gore jaanong a ke go nne le an Anti-corruption Policy kana go nne le policies tse di ntseng jang.
A go nne le programmes, a go baakanngwe melao, e ka baakanngwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

tsa Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo Palamente, mo bogompienong re a itse gore anti-corruption strategy ya Botswana e ikaegile ka Lekgotla DCEC, ka molao wa Corruption and Economic Crime.

Sebe sa phiri se o kareng se ngosetsa Batswana mowa fa o bua ka lekgotla la DCEC ke gore, in the past many years fa go tlhotlhomisiwa dikgetsi tsa tshenyetso-setšhaba, conviction rate mo high profile cases is very low.
Ke gore dikgetsi tse e leng gore di ama batho ba maemo a a kwa godimo; maemo a e ka tswa e le a dikgwebo, parastatals kana mo Pusong gope fela.

E bile tshenyetso-setšhaba e e tlaabong e belaelwa e le ya sekale sa madi a a kwa godimo, go lebega bontsi jwa dikgetsi tse di latlhegela Puso kana Lekgotla la Directorate of Public Prosecution (DPP) fa go tsenwa kwa makgotlatshekelong.
Se o kare se baya Lekgotla la DCEC le dikgang tsotlhe tsa go lwantsha tshenyetso- setšhaba… mo jaanong Batswana ba sa tlholeng ba na le confidence mo DCEC kana in the whole process ya go leka go lwantsha tshenyetso-setšhaba.

Melao e mengwe ke ya bo Financial Intelligence Agency (FIA), Whistleblowing, Declaration of Assets and Liabilities, Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act le e mengwe ya Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters.
Tse tsotlhe di a leka gore go lwantshiwe tshenyetso-setšhaba, mme go na le dikgang tse di buiwang tsa ditlhaelo tsa Melao- kakanyetso e. E tlaabo e se tlholontšha gore Palamente e buisane kgang ya gore go nne le lekoko la ditlhotlhomiso, mme lekoko le la ditlhotlhomiso le felele le nnile teng.

Fa gongwe le nna teng ka gore, Mapalamente le fa ba sa ntsha e le Tshutiso mme ba e bua e le dikgang.
Ka 1991 go ne ga nna le commission of enquiry e e neng e lebeletse tender that was supplying teaching materials tse di neng di tlhokiwa ke baithuti.

E ne ya supa gore kompone e e neng e le briefcase company e ne ya fiwa tender, mme dilo tsa se ka tsa dirwa ka fa tshiamong.

Ga se tlholontšha gore go ka lopiwa ga supiwa gore dilo ga di a dirwa sentle, Tautona a tsiboge ka go tlhoma lekoko la ditlhotlhomiso.

Ka 1991 go ne ga nna le Kgabo Commission, e e neng e lebeletse kabo ya lefatshe kwa Mogoditshane.
Re a itse gore it resulted in court cases, but it also resulted in review ya Land Policy gore go ka dirwa jang gore go tokafadiwe dikgang tseo.

1992 go ne ga nna le Christie Commission, e e neng e lebetse madubedube a a neng a le kwa Botswana Housing Corporation (BHC).

Ka 2004 ke a dumela, Honourable Saleshando o tlaa nkgakolola, go ne ga nna le lekoko la ditlhotlhomiso le le neng le eteletswe pele ke Judge Lesetedi, le lebeletse kabo ya lefatshe mo Gaborone.
Ke dumela gore dingwe tsa dilo tse di neng di tlhotlholeditse lekoko le la ditlhotlhomiso, ke debates tse di tshwanang le dikgang tse di neng di buiwa mo Palamenteng ke Mapalamente ka go farologana ba ipelaetsa ka fa lefatshe le abiwang ka teng.

Re a itse gore Judge Lesetedi o ne a supa plots tse dintsi tse di neng di sa abiwa sentle mo lefatsheng la Botswana, fa go tla mo dikgannyeng tsa go lwantsha tshenyetso-setšhaba mo kabong ya lefatshe.
tsa Palamente, re ntsha Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo Tshutiso e ka kitso e e tletseng ya gore Tautona ka fa tlase ga molao wa Commissions of Enquiries Act, o mo fa dithata tsa to appoint a commission, mme yo o tlaabong e le Chairperson e nna mang le gore maloko a komiti e e nna bomang.

Ke se re se itseng gore Tautona o fiwa dithata ke molao o.
Se sengwe Motsamaisa 30 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ka gore this is Second Year Constitutional Law and Administrative Law material, Honourable Boko, Honourable Mthimkhulu le ba bangwe would know.
Tautona o fiwa dithata gape tsa gore, o ka supa gore lekoko le la ditlhotlhomiso a le dira ditlhotlhomiso tse mo sephiring kana mo pontsheng, ka fa tlase ga molao wa Commissions of Enquiries Act.

E kare le fa lekoko le le tsweletse le ntse le tlhotlhomisa, go ya ka molao Tautona o ka le emisa gore nnyaa emang gone foo, le dirile go lekane ke setse ke bone gore go tsamaela kwa kae.
Tautona o na le dithata gape tsa gore, o ka supa gore report e batlang ka yone a ke e a tlaa e phatlalatsa kana o tlaa e dira sephiri.

Re a itse re tshwere reports fa tsa bo Judge Lesetedi le other commissions of enquiries.

Re a itse gore tse dingwe ga re na tsone, jaaka ya Monthe Commission e e neng e sekaseka go bolawa ga dikgomo ka ntata ya bolwetse jwa lekgwafo kwa kgaolong ya Nhabe, report eo remains top state secret, le letsatsi leno le ga e ise e tswe.
Re bua re ntse re itse gore Tautona o na le dithata tse di ntseng jang.

Gape Tautona o na le dithata tsa gore, e kare fa go dirilwe lekoko le la ditlhotlhomiso, kwa bofelelong tshwetso ga ka tsewa efe.

Le fa go ntse go na le dithata tse, ke tlaa nopola sekai se se diragetseng kwa lefatsheng la Aferika Borwa.
Re a itse gore Commission of State Capture Enquiry ya ga the Honourable Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo, e rile fa lekoko la teng le tlhotlhomisa nngwe ya debates tse di neng di tsositse tlhatlharuane kwa lefatsheng la Aferika Borwa, e ne e le gore ke mang yo o yang go tlhoma Commissioner kana Chairperson wa Commission.

Ka gore at the centre of the state capture le gore who was alleged to have been captured, was former President.
Jaanong e bo e nna gore a e ka nna ene yo o ka tlhomang lekoko la ditlhotlhomiso.

Go bo go dumalanwa gore le fa a ntswa a na le dithata tsa gore o ka tlhoma lekoko la ditlhotlhomiso le gore le etelelwa (chaired) ke mang, ka go dira dilo mo pontsheng, ka tshiamo, judiciously di sa sokamisiwa, a re dumalaneng gore Chief Justice ke ene a tlaa tlhomang Chairperson wa Commission of Enquiry mo State Capture.

Ke ka fa Raymond Zondo a feletseng e le Chairperson wa State Capture Enquiry.
Ke sone se re dirang kopo re itse gore molao o letla Tautona, mme re dira kopo ya gore a yo o tlaabong a tlhomiwa e bo e le Moatlhodi wa pele wa Kgotlakgolo ya Ditsheko kana Kgotlakgolo ya Ditsheko ya Boikuelo, kana e le Moatlhodi wa gompieno yo a leng mo setilong.

Jaaka ke ne ke bua, Judges are trained to pursue complex enquiries.

Indeed, this would be probably a complex enquiry.

Ke sone se re kopang gore fa kopo e ka dumalanwa, re dumalane gore re tseye resolution.
Ga gona se se re patikang gore re ka se ke re kope gore Judge be the one chairing lekoko le la ditlhotlhomiso.

Se sengwe se re se kopang mo Tshutisong e ke gore, a lekoko le tiro ya lone e direlwe mo pontsheng.

Batswana ba na le tshono, ba lebile e bile ba na le seabe sa gore le bone ba ka tlisa ditshutiso tsa gore go ka dirwa eng.
Se sengwe se re se lopang e le sa bofelo mo kopong e ke e dirang mo Tshutisong e Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke gore, a e re kwa bofelong report e e tlaabong lekoko le la ditlhotlhomiso le e dirile kana le e ntshitse, e nne phatlalatsa e balwe ke mongwe le mongwe.

Se se kopiwang Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ga se go ya go tlhotlhomisa bo semangmang gore a ba corrupt kante ga ba corrupt jaaka ke ne ke bua.
Ke gore re itse the nature and extent of corruption mo Botswana, e bakiwa ke eng, ditlamorago tsa yone ke eng, e bile e jweleletse go le kae le go gopela itsholelo, le go dira dilo ka tshokamo kana ka fa go sa siamang ka teng, go sa direlwe mo pontsheng mo makalaneng a a farologaneng a Puso.

Maikaelelo e le gore kwa bofelong, re itse gore policies tse di tlhokafalang ke dife, tse di leng teng are they adequate, a di siame go ka re isa golo gongwe mo go lwantsheng tshenyetso-setšhaba le go gopela itsholelo?
Programmes tse di ka nnang teng ke dife?

Melao e e teng e ke ntseng ke e bua ya FIA wa maloba re o tlisa, Corruption and Economic Crime Act, Ombudsman e e thusang, Auditor General, Whistleblowing ya ba ba begang corruption, Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act, a e lekane?

E tlhaela fa kae?

A go na le melao e mesha e e ka nnang teng?


In the past go kile ga nna le dikgang tsa gore a go ka nna le molao o o tshwanang le Declaration of Assets and Liabilities, e bo o dira gore declaration e nne declaration without disclosure.

Those are some of the questions that need to be examined.

Whistleblowing e na le Clauses tse di reng, whistleblower particulars tsa gagwe di tlaa tsewa gore o bidiwa semangmang, o nna kae, o dingwaga di kae, Omang wa gagwe and so forth.
Ga go tsamaelane le molao wa Corruption and Economic Crime Act o o lekang go sireletsa bomalomatsebe.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, tota e tlaabo e le go golola tlou le maroo, ka bokhutshwane, I request that this Honourable House resolves that His Excellency the President set up a Commission of 31 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion Enquiry chaired by a Judge, sitting in public and whose report shall be published to investigate the nature and extent of corruption, economic crime, mismanagement, maladministration, unethical governance in public institutions with a view to recommend formulation of appropriate policies, programmes, and enacting appropriate laws.
I so move Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Keorapetse.

Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, we start the debate.

FOR PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Rraetsho, ke a go ikokobeletsa.

Ke eletsa go akgela mo mafokong a ga Motlotlegi Rre Keorapetse.

Mo kakgelong ya me, ga ke na go nna moleele Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Mabaka a me e le gore mo seemong se re leng mo go sone gompieno mo Botswana, re le Puso, re dumalana le gore corruption e tshwanetse e lwantshiwe ka ditsela tsotlhe.

Re itlamile gore corruption e tshwanetse e lwantshiwe.

Bopaki bo teng jwa gore makalana a a farologanyeng a tlhamilwe go lwantsha corruption.

Ka tsela eo, ga ke eletse ope a akanye gore re kgatlhanong le go lwantsha corruption.

Ke one moono wa rona re le Puso go lwantsha corruption.
Rotlhe re tlaa dumalana jaaka ke ne ke supa ke re, gompieno makalana a teng a a farologanyeng, a a lwantshang corruption ka ditsela tse di farologanyeng a le ka fa molaong.

Mokaulengwe Rre Keorapetse o buile gore re na le makalana a tshwana le DCEC, Ombudsman, Auditor General, Judiciary ka sebelebele, sepodise le FIA.

Bosheng jaana go ne go tlhamiwa lekalana le lengwe le re ka ya go begang dithoto tsa rona teng re le setšhaba le batho ba ba tshwereng maemo a a farologanyeng.
Maikaelelo le maikemisetso ke gore go dirwe dilo ka tsela e go lwantshiwang corruption.

Maikaelelo le maikemisetso e le gore corruption e tswe fa gare ga rona.

Fa o utlwa ke simolola jaana, ke go bontsha gore ditshetlana di a supega di teng gore Puso e lwantsha tshenyetso- setšhaba ka maphata a a farologanyeng.

Se se buiwang ke mokaulengwe, tshenyetso setšhaba e, e ka tswa e le economic crime, mismanagement, maladministration, unethical behaviours and governance e e kwa tlase.
Tumelo ya rona ke gore, makalana a teng a a maleba, a a itebagantseng le ntwa e kalokalo e re tlhabantshang tshenyetso-setšhaba ka yone.

Re a itse re le setšhaba... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Minister.

MR MORWAENG: Ke a bo ke ntse ke tlogetse mokaulengwe a bua go sena clarification, a ko ke bue, ke ale kgang ya me.

Re nne re itshwara bakaulengwe ka boikokobetso, itshwareng!

Le tlaa nna le sebaka sa lona.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, it is part of procedure Honourable Morwaeng.
MR MORWAENG: Re ne re ntse re itse procedure eo, re lebeletse wa ga lona a bua, mma ke bue.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Tlogela go ikomantsha o bue mogolole.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O se ka wa ikomantsha rraetsho.

MR MORWAENG: Nnyaa, moo le go katiseditswe, ga go ntsha batho mo tseleng.

Jaanong ke eletsa re itse gore makalana le dithulaganyo di teng.

Batswana ba tshwanetse ba itse jaaka mokaulengwe a ntse a nankola a a farologanyeng.
Makalana a otlhe a a teng, a supa tlhwaafalo ya Puso mo go lwantsheng tshenyetso- setšhaba le borukutlhi.

Maabane re ne re le fa mo Palamenteng re tlile ka dikgang tsa go ntsha melao e mengwe e e farologanyeng, e re neng re gakololwa ke ba boditšhabatšhaba, go lwantsha dikgang tse dingwe tse di ka amanang le corruption le mororo re ne re lebile borukutlhi jo bo farologanyeng.

Ka bokhutshwane, ga go na pelaelo epe.

Re le Puso, re tlile ka makalana a, e bile otlhe a ikemetse ka nosi.
A bereka ka tsela e e leng gore ka fa molaong, ga go na yo o laelang makalana a gore batlisisang se, se batlisiseng se, jalojalo.

O re o bua ka DCEC, all of them, Batswana ba gololesegile gore ba ye kwa makalaneng a, go supa ka fa ba supang ka teng.

Ba ye go bega ka fa ba begang ka teng, se ba ka tswang ba belaela gore ke tshenyetso-setšhaba.
Ntlha nngwe e bagarona re tshwanetseng re e ele tlhoko re bo re e bone, ke gore Puso e, e rile fa e tsena, ya dira thulaganyo e e leng gore… Lengwe la mabaka jaaka mokaulengwe Keorapetse a tlhalosa, ratings tsa rona re le lefatshe di supegile ka mabaka a a farologanyeng gore internationally, di ntse di tsweletse sentle.

Go supega gore re lwantsha corruption go le kae.


Ratings tsa Transparency International and Corruption Perceptions Index, mokaulengwe o tlaa gakologelwa gore e nna ke e tshotseng fa e supa gore Botswana o mo position 60 out of 179 countries.

The World Justice Project Rule of Law Index go supega gore Botswana was ranked 35 out of 139 countries.

Sub-Saharan African region, Botswana is placed four out of 33 countries, and seven out of 40 among upper middle income countries.
32 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion As Botswana, we are doing relatively well fa re tshwantshanngwa le mafatshe a mangwe mabapi le go lwantsha corruption le gore seemo sa yone se fa kae.
Batswana ba tshwanetse ba itse gore nngwe ya dilo tse e leng gore mo gompienong go ka lebaga corruption e le kwa godimodimo mo go kalokalo ke gore Puso e mo gompienong, freedom of expression e kwa godimo thata.

Babegadikgang ba gololesegile go bega tse di diragalang ba sa kgorelediwe ke ope.

Ga gona mmegadikgang yo o kgorelediwang.

Babegadikgang can engage maphata a a farologaneng go sena kgoreletso epe.
Tsone tse ke tsone tse di supang jaanong ka gore batho ba kgona go tla ba ntsha dikgang tse ba di itseng; bobegadikgang jo bo gololesegileng bo ntsha dikgang tse.

Jaanong fa bo ntsha dikgang tsone tse, ke sone se Puso e se rotloetsang gore a di tswe di nne mo mpaananeng gore batho ba itse gore go diragala eng.

Gone mo ke nngwe ya dikatlego tse di kgolo tsa gore freedom of expression e bo e le kalokalo e bile e sireletsegile mo lefatsheng la rona.
That is why go na le molao o rotlhe re o itseng wa Data Protection Act.

Gompieno Bill is being prepared or drafted mme keletso ya rona ke gore e re ka April jaana e bo e tla kwa Palamenteng.

Ke ya Access to Information and it is almost complete.

E tlaa tla mo Palamenteng yone e ka April fa dilo di ka tsamaya sentle.
Ke nngwe ya maitlamo a Puso a go supa gore tota corruption re a e lwantsha e bile makalana otlhe a a amegang mo corruption e bong go lwantsha corruption ke a a ikemetseng e bile a rotloediwa gore a dire tiro ya bone bonolo.

Then sengwe se Mokaulengwe Rre Keorapetse a neng a se bua, ke ka supa fela gore policy e e amanang le corruption, ke go tlhomasetse gore policy eo le yone is almost complete kana e wetse.
Fa dilo di ka tsamaya sentle, e tlaa re ka April e bo e tla mo Palamenteng mabapi le tsone dikgang tsa corruption.

Policy eo mokaulengwe e mo thulaganyong ya gore re e tlise mo Palamenteng, re buisane ka yone re le Palamente.
Tse ke di buang tse, Access to Information Bill e e dirwang, Data Protection Act e e teng mo gompieno le yone development ya policy mabapi le go lwantsha corruption, tse tsotlhe tse ke reng di etla mo Palamenteng, ke sekao gore Goromente o a tsiboga e bile o eletsa gore go lwantshiwe tshenyetso- setšhaba ka tsela e e ntseng jaana.

We are committed as Government go lwantsha tshenyetso-setšhaba.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.

MR MORWAENG: Yes, sir.

I yield Mr Speaker.


HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re o e tshwere sentle e bile o e tlhalosa ka botlalo gore maikaelelo a teng e bile maiteko a tsweletse a lwantsha tshenyetso-setšhaba le go e upolola fa e leng teng.

Ke sone se o bonang go kwalwa go buiwa ka yone ka gore ga e a simologa maabane.

Puso e a e upolola; e a e ntsha e bile ditsheko di a sekwa.
Jaanong gongwe before o wela o tle o tlhalose gore a mme gone a ke Puso e e tshwanetseng gore e atlhole gore batho ba ba sekisetswang tshenyetso-setšhaba ba tshwanetse gore ba tsene toronko?

A ke Puso e e sekang e bo e atlhola kana go na le lakalana lengwe le le ikemetseng la Puso?

Jaanong fa e le gore ditsheko di a fail (been lost) mme go bo gotwe ke tsone tse e leng gore gatwe corruption ga e lwantshiwe, a ke boammaaruri?
Ka gore mosutisi o ne a nopola mo manifesto, ke supe gore kana o tlaa lemoga gore mo page 48 ya manifesto wa rona, o o akaretsang Batswana botlhe jaaka re bua ka inclusivity, o kwadilwe ka Sekgoa le Setswana, e le one fela o ke tsayang gore Batswana botlhe ba o bala kafa le kafa, ba ba batlang go bala Sekgoa ba tlaa bala, ba e leng gore ba batla Setswana ba tlaa se bala, ke nopole mo go yone eo, (A) mo go page 48 ya our promises Mr Speaker fa ke ka nopola on my elucidation, mme ke tlaa nopola tse pedi fela ka gore di dintsi, if you allow.
MR SPEAKER: Yes, please do.

MR TSOGWANE: Gone moo ke bale ka kwa Sekgoeng ka gore ke sone se batlotlegi ba se atlileng thata e bile ba se utlwang ka bofefo ke a bona, “Prosecute those who misappropriated Government funds and recover such funds.
(F) Run a Government with accountable, transparent, competent and efficient public service with zero tolerance for corruption.” Ya bofelo Mr Speaker ke e e reng “Strengthen the criminal justice system.” Maiteko a otlhe Tona ke a a supang ka botlalo Puso e e ikaeletseng go lwantsha tshenyetso-setšhaba.

Ke ne ke re tlhalose (elucidate) fela jalo Mr Speaker.

Thank you very much.

MR MORWAENG: Ke a leboga Mothusa Mookamedi.

Dintlha tse o di buileng tsotlhe ke tsone.


Go papametse gore manifesto wa BDP jaaka o ntse o bua, yone phathi e e mo setilong mo gompienong e romilwe ke Batswana, manifesto o o fitlhela gape fa godimo ga moo jaaka ke supile, makalana a otlhe a o ka akanyang; DCEC le a mangwe.

Ke makalana a a tlhomilweng ke Puso ya phathi e ya Domkrag go tlhabantsha tshenyetso-setšhaba.

E bile mo manifesto wa 2019 ra itlama go feta foo jaaka o ntse o bua Motlotlegi Mothusa Tautona.
Kgang yone e ke gore Batswana ba tshwanetse ba tlhaloganye gore 33 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion re a rotloetsa e bile re a eletsa gore botlhe ba ba itseng tshenyetso-setšhaba fa e leng teng, ba gololesegile gore ba report sengwe le sengwe mo makalaneng otlhe a a amegang.
Se se kgatlhang mo lefatsheng la Botswana ke gore bone bo DCEC le bo Ombudsman ka dinako tsotlhe, reports tsele tse ba di fiwang ke Batswana, they report back.

Ba tlhalosetsa setšhaba gore go begile batho ba le kana ba begela se.

Gone mo ke transparency.

That is why mo gompienong re tlaabo re bua re re dipalo di kwa godimo because makalana a a amegang ba re neela kitso e or information.

Makalana a a amegang ga ba fitlhe.


Fa reports di ya kwa go bone ba di neela setšhaba; ba a tlhalosa gore monongwaga re ntse le reports tse di kana tsa tshenyetso-setšhaba.

Transparency e ke yone e e leng gore e tlhokega thata.

Jaanong jaaka go ntse go supega gore… fa mokaulengwe a bua ka manifesto wa bone wa UDC gore le bone ba ne ba ne ba kwadile, ee, le ne la kwala mme akere le paletswe mokaulengwe.

Ke raya gore ditoro le ne le na le tsone, ga go molato.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!


Honourable Members, it is now 12:30 and may I call upon the Leader of the House, His Honour the Vice President (VP) to move a Motion of adjournment, VP.

MOTION ADJOURNMENT LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke tlaa kopa gore Ntlo e jaanong e phatlalale e bile ka go lebega e le gore jaanong internet le yone e a wa, ga re kgone go utlwa le batlotlegi fa ba bua.

Ke tlaa kopa gore Ntlo e phatlalale.

Question put and agreed to.
The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 12:32 p.m. until Monday 14th February, 2022 at 2:00 p.m. 34 Hansard No 205Friday 11th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B.
B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae 35 Hansard No 205