Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697719783349.pdf (Botswana)
THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 24 MARCH 2022 MIXED VERSION HANSARD NO: 205 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon.

Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP.

DEPUTY SPEAKER Hon.

P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP.

(Tonota) Clerk of the National Assembly Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly Acting Learned Parliamentary Counsel Assistant Clerk (E) His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP.

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP.


(Boteti West) CABINET - President - Vice President - Ms B. N. Dithapo - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe - Advocate L. O. Tlhowe - Mr R. Josiah Hon.

K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP.

(Molepolole South) - Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

K. T. Mmusi, MP.

(Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon.

Dr L. Kwape, MP.

(Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon.

K. K. Autlwetse, MP.


(Specially Elected) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon.

K. S. Gare, MP.

(Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

P. K. Kereng, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism Hon.

Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP.

(Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon.

T.M.

Segokgo, MP.

(Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon.

K. Mzwinila, MP.
K. Mzwinila, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Hon.

T. M. Rakgare, MP.

(Mogoditshane) - Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development Hon.

A. M. Mokgethi, MP.

(Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon.

P. O. Serame, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon.

F. M. M. Molao, MP.

(Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Hon.

Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP.


(Tati East) Hon.

L. M. Moagi, MP.

(Ramotswa) - Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology - Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security Hon.

M. Kgafela, MP.

(Mochudi West) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

M. R. Shamukuni, MP.

(Chobe) - Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development Hon.

E. M. Molale, MP.

(Goodhope-Mabule) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development Hon.
D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP.

(Gaborone South) - Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

S. N. Modukanele, MP.

(Lerala -Maunatlala) Hon.

T. Monnakgotla, MP.

(Kgalagadi North) Hon.

M. M. Pule, MP.

(Mochudi East) Hon.

M. S. Molebatsi, MP.


(Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

S. Lelatisitswe, MP.

(Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness Hon.

N. W. T. Makwinja, MP.

(Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education Hon.

B. Manake, MP.
B. Manake, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

H. B. Billy, MP.

(Francistown East) Hon.

A. Lesaso, MP.

(Shoshong) - Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES Names Constituency Hon.

L. Kablay, MP.

(Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon.

Dr U. Dow, MP.

Hon.


P. Majaga, MP.

Hon.

M. Balopi, MP.

Hon.

J. S. Brooks, MP.

Hon.

C. Greeff, MP.

Hon.

T. Letsholo, MP.

Hon.

T. F. Leuwe, MP.

Hon.

T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP.

Hon.

Dr T. Matsheka, MP.

Hon.

S. N. Moabi, MP.

Hon.

P. K. Motaosane, MP.

Hon.

O. Regoeng, MP.

Hon.

J. L. Thiite, MP.


Specially Elected Nata-Gweta Gaborone North Kgalagadi South Gaborone Bonnington South Kanye North Takatokwane Gaborone Central Lobatse Tati West Thamaga-Kumakwane Molepolole North Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon.

D. Saleshando, MP.

(Leader of the Opposition) Hon.

M. G. J. Motsamai, MP.


(Opposition Whip) Maun West Ghanzi South Selebi Phikwe West Mahalapye East Sefhare-Ramokgonami Ngami Okavango Maun East Bobonong Selebi Phikwe East Palapye Nkange Mahalapye West Francistown West Hon.

D. L. Keorapetse, MP.

Hon.

Y. Boko, MP.

Hon.

Dr K. Gobotswang, MP.

Hon.

C. K. Hikuama, MP.

Hon.

K. K. Kapinga, MP Hon.

G. Kekgonegile, MP.

Hon.

T. B. Lucas, MP.

Hon.

K. Nkawana, MP.

Hon.

O. Ramogapi, MP.

Hon.

Dr N. Tshabang, MP.

Hon.

D. Tshere, MP.

Hon.


M. I. Moswaane, MP.

Hon.

T. S. Khama, MP.

Hon.

L. Lesedi, MP.

Hon.

B. Mathoothe, MP.

Hon.

M. Reatile, MP.

(Botswana Patriotic Front) Serowe West Serowe South Serowe North Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon.

W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.
Francistown South (Alliance for Progressives) TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 24TH MARCH, 2022 CONTENTS PAGE (S) QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE...................................................................................................................23-26 SPEAKER’S REMARKS..........................................................................................................................................1 LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME..........................................................................................21-22 GOVERNMENT BILLS APPROPRIATION (2022/2023) BILL, 2022 (NO.
2 OF 2022) COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY Organisation 2700 - Ministry of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology (Resumed Debate).............................................................................................................................................1-18 Organisation 2800 – Ethics and Integrity Directorate..........................................................................................19-20 (Resumed Debate)...........................................................................................................................................27-44 Organisation 9100 -Appropriations from Revenue..............................................................................................45-50 Appropriation 2022/2023 Bill, 2022 (No.
2 of 2022) Third Reading.................................................................................................................................................51-52 Supplementary Appropriation (2020/2021) Bill, 2022 (No.
4 of 2022) Second Reading...............................................................................................................................................53-56 Third Reading.................................................................................................................................................57-59 Thursday 24th March, 2022 THE ASSEMBLY met at 11:00 a.m. (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) P R A Y E R S * * * * SPEAKER’S REMARKS MR SPEAKER (MR MOATLHODI): Ke a le dumedisa bakaulengwe ba me.
A re simololeng tiro ya moso wa gompieno, re tseye fa re letseng re tlogetse teng maabane, e ka Sekgoa re e bitsang re re ke Committee of Supply.

ASSEMBLY IN COMMITTEE (CHAIRPERSON in the Chair) APPROPRIATION (2022/2023) BILL, 2022 (NO.

2 OF 2022) ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (Resumed Debate) MR CHAIRPERSON (MR MOATLHODI): Honourable Members, good morning once more.
The debate on this Bill is resuming, when the House adjourned yesterday evening, Honourable Hikuama was on the floor and he was left with 7 minutes 8 seconds.

MR HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Ke a leboga Honourable Chairperson.

Dumelang bagaetsho.

Ke ne ke setse ke tsweletse Modulasetilo, ke bua ka go duelela thuto ya bana ba rona kana ya batho mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Ga se selo se Puso e tshwanetseng go ikotlhaela go tsaya tshwetso ya go ka duelela Batswana thuto, ka gore ke sone sebetsa fela se re ka se dirisang go lwantsha lehuma le go betla diphatlha tsa ditiro mo lefatsheng.

Jaaka baitseanape ba atle ba bue, education is the best equaliser.

Ke yone fela re ka e dirisang to empower our people, so we should not shy away from financing our education re le Puso, because go botlhokwa fela thata.
Mma ke leboge Modulasetilo le wena Tona, le se ka la ikotlhaela seo, le tswelele ka go duelela bana thuto.

Go na le bothata gompieno gore le setse le kgaotse sponsorships, bana ga ba sa tlhole ba ya kwa dikoleng ba le bantsi because of sponsorship.

Ba batsadi ba bone ba kileng ba iteka mo go dueleleng bana ba bone dikole, bana ba etle ba felele ba sa kwale examinations kana ba sa feleletse dithuto tsa bone, ka gore batsadi ba ba itekileng, ba feletse fa ba feletseng teng.
Le tshwanetse le tseeletse gone foo, le thuse gore ngwana a se ka a felela a tlogela dithuto, ka gore motsadi o setse a kaletse fa gare.

Se sengwe se le ka se tokafatsang ke dituelo tsa bana, go fiwa living allowances.

Go lebega di diega thata, bana ba tswa kwa ba tswang teng, bokgakala kwa ba leng teng, ba sena masika mono, ka gore universities le institutions of high learning tsotlhe fela di mo south.
Mo go rayang gore batho ba tswa kgakala kwa Chobe le North West, ba tla ba kalela mono ba ise ba tseye living allowances tsa bone.

Go bo go raya gore ba nna le bothata jwa go duela matlo a ba a hirisitseng, ba kobiwa, ba ema ka dilwana.

Le netefatse gore dituelo tsa allowances di dirwa ka nako, gore bana ba se ka ba sokola.
Se sengwe Tona se motho a ka se kopang, ke go lebaleba gore a nako ga e a tla, go akanyetsa gore Kgaolo ya North West, a ga gona university kana thuto e e kwa godimo e e ka dirwang ka koo.

Fa o bona bana ba North West ba sa kgone to access dithuto le go rutega ka dipalo tse dintsi, ke gore go nna bokete go kwala interviews le go kopa diphatlha ka kwano.
A go dirwe gore le bone le ba kgaolele, le ba bone e le batho, go akanyetswe gore a university kana institution nngwe ya maemo a a kwa godimo, ga e ka ke ya bewa ntlheng ya North West.

E ka tswa e le Gumare kana Sehithwa, gongwenyana foo, go ne go ka thusa gore e kgaolele batho ba mosepele, le bone ba kgone to access thuto jaaka ba ka kwano ba bona thuto ba le gaufi.

Modulasetilo, sengwe se ke batlang go se gatelela ke kgang ya research and development.
Research and development e botlhokwa fa re tla mo thutong, jaanong ke sone se ke dumalanang le gore lenaneo le o tlang ka lone la research fund, is overdue.

Re tshwanetse to finance research, to influence policies tsa rona.

Researches ga di a tshwanela go felela fela di sena se di se dirang, e bile ga re a tshwanela gore re tswe mo re ya go matorolola mananeo a mafatshe a mangwe, re sa itse gore what informed them.
We should fund research, gore re tle re kgone go feleletsa mathata a a amang lefatshe la rona le gore re ka a fetsa ka tsela e e ntseng jang, mme ke ka research.
Ke sone se ke dumalanang le tshwetso ya gago ya gore research e tshwanetse ya dirwa, ya re betela ditsela tsa gore se re se tlhokang mo lefatsheng 1 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) la Botswana, ke eng e bile se ka dirwa jang.

Ke gone re ka nnang le kitso e e tseneletseng, e bile re bo re ema nokeng maitlamo a Puso a transforming this economy from resource-based to knowledge-based.
Go a gakgamatsa Tona gompieno, re na le nako e telele re ntse re na le ditswammung and natural resources, mme ga re na baitseanape le barutegi.

Re santse re import baitseanape ba mehama e e farologaneng, e ka tswa e le ba mekoti, re ba import go sele.

Re tshwanetse go dira research, gore ke eng go pala gore lefatshe la Botswana le ntshe dialogane tse di ka itebaganyang le ditiro tse di mo lefatsheng la rona le dikgwetlho tse re nang le tsone, ke eng go pala.
We need researches, di senole dilo tse re kgone to fix, go ise go nne late.

Otherwise re ya go nna batlhanka ba mafatshe a mangwe, re berekelwa ke batho ba mafatshe a mangwe, go sena se rona re se dirang.

Re batla go ikgantsha ka dialogane tsa rona mo mehameng yotlhe ya itsholelo, mme ke wena fela yo o ka re thusang wa re ntsha mo seemong seo.

Motho mma a siane a bue ka Innovation Hub, go lebega e sa bonale thata.
Ke gore fa o sa e bua, wena o sa e mention mo statement sa gago, le mongwe a bua ka yone, ga e bonale, we do not feel it.

We do not feel gore tota e dira eng mo lefatsheng.

Kana when something is there and effective, it does not only come to the picture when you talk about it.

It should be felt by everybody, le yo o sa bueng ka yone o tshwanetse a bone gore maduo a yone ke a, e dirile se.

Ga ke itse gore bothata jwa yone ke eng.


Re tshwanetse re lebelele gore a e na le mathata kana ga e na mathata e tle e dirwe.

Mma ke wetse ka Botswana Qualifications Authority (BQA).

Lekalana la BQA le tshwanetse go nna botlhokwa le go fefosa, it has to facilitate and smoothen learning in the country, but it appears le okeditse bothata jwa thuto mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Ga ke kgone go tlhaloganya gore bothata jwa lone ke eng.

Go lebega le tlhoka capacity, mme ka fa le koba batho gape.
You fail to understand what could be the real problem with BQA.

A re tle ka tharabololo ya BQA gore e dire tiro.

Re batla go bona institutions le courses tse disha tse di itebagantseng le diemo tsa segompieno being accredited, di rutiwa bana ba rona, re tswelela re le lefatshe.

It appears that BQA is failing this nation, ntswa e le teng.

O tshwanetse wa e lebelela o bone gore mathata a yone ke eng, otherwise ga re ka ke ra akola sepe mo boleng jwa yone.
Gape go na le batho ba ke neng ke utlwa gotwe ba kobilwe.

Fa o feta mo tlhalosong ya gago, o re tlhalosetse gore a mme e setse e siame BQA, e stable in terms of human resource and staffing.

Ga ke itse gore bothata jwa yone ke eng sentlentle.

Gongwe mo karabong kana mo tsibogong ya gago, o ka tlhalosa gore bothata bo fa kae, le baakantse eng, go setse eng.

Ka mafoko a a kalo Modulasetilo, mma ke eme fa ka nako ke yone e re siileng.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Ke a leboga Modulasetilo.

Le nna ke tshwaele go se kae mo kopong ya ga Honourable Letsholathebe.

Ke mo eme nokeng, e bile o dira tiro e ntle.

Ke buile gantsi ka lephata le gore tshekatsheko e e dirwang mo go lone, le gongwe le gongwe fela, ke yone mangmang ya go tsosolosa itsholelo ya magae (village economy).

Re a itse gore re na le lephata le gotweng National Food Technology Research Centre (NFTRC) kwa Kanye.
Re a itse gore re na le lephata le gotweng Botswana Institute for Technology Research and Innovation (BITRI), le teng mo Gaborone le lone le tlholega kwa Kanye le maphata a mangwe fela.

Ba setse ba dirile ditshekatsheko, di teng di dintsi.

Dr Lemogang Kwape ke leloko la NFTRC, e bile ba dirile tiro e ntle.

Ke boa ke ipoeletsa ke re, Tona Letsholathebe, ga se ene a ka tsayang those prototypes a dira business.

Yo o tshwanetseng go dira business, ke Tona Kgafela le ba bangwe.
Se ke se eletsang ke gore, go nne le tomagano e tona fa gare ga ga Tona Letsholathebe, a tla ka prototype a di neela Tona Kgafela, Tona Gare le Tona Autlwetse gore itsholelo ya magae e nonofe.

Ke buile selo se gantsi mo Palamenteng Modulasetilo.

Gompieno jaana re ne ra fetola menu wa dikole gore o nne compatible le these prototypes.

Go ntshiwe madi a neelwe Batswana ba dire dilo tse, Goromente a bo a di reka.

Ke yone tsela ya go rotloetsa le go godisa itsholelo ya magae.
Ga ke reye gore ke ila Gaborone kana Francistown, se ke se buang ke gore, we must do things from outside to inside.

Kgothatso eo ke tlaa nna ke e bua go fitlhelela go diragadiwa jalo.

Ga ke itse gore se se dirang gore go se ka ga dirwa jalo tota go pala eng?

Re na le Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA), Botswana Development Corporation (BDC), le Industry Support Fund e e bileng gotwe madi a teng ga a dirisiwe.
Why can we not take mongongo kwa North West le morula the whole country ra dira cooking oil ya rekwa ke Goromente ya isiwa kwa primary school feeding, secondary school feeding, institutional school feeding and everybody.

It is a ready guaranteed market.


Ke yone kgodiso ya itsholelo ya magae ka gore morula o montsi kwa Gweta, Kgatleng, o gongwe le gongwe kwa 2 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Tswapong.

We can have five plants strategically placed around the country to supply cluster of schools with guaranteed money a a ntseng a bokiwa mo Palamenteng e, instead of importing canola oil from Brazil.
Canola is a wild plant.

Morula le one is a wild growing plant, so, why should we import other peoples’ wild plants when we have our own wild plants.

Selo se bagaetsho, ke kopa se potlakelwe, se dirwe ka bofefo.

Mosekaphofu wa gaabo ga a swe lentswe ka gore tumelo ya me ke gore, magae ke one kwa itsholelo e tshwanetseng go godisiwa teng pele, pele fa re tla go e godisa mo Gaborone.

Kgang ya bobedi Modulasetilo, research e e dirwang re bo re sa e patent, e re direla mathata.
Gompieno jaana re ka bo re dira beauty products kwa Ghanzi ka kgengwe.

After the research ya kgengwe gore e ka dira beauty product of high value, the research wa patented by the Japanese mme ga go na le ga e le fa kgengwe e bonwang teng kwa Japan.

Dilo tse re tshwanetse ra di ela tlhoko Tona Letsholathebe.

Ke batla gore re ye tshekong go seka patent ya kgengwe le the traditional system, and the person who patented it, o ja madi ka yone.

Research ke knowledge economy.


Fa motho a setse a dirile research and has patented it, ga a tlhole a tlhoka go bereka.

O ja madi mahala fela fa ba bangwe ba dirisa product e ya gagwe.

Ke eletsa gore going into the future, every research e e dirwang, a e ka tswa e dirwa ke batswakwa kana mo gae, a re e feleletse ka go dira patent eo ka gore that is a guaranteed source of income for the researcher.

Fa e le motswakwa, ka didirisiwa tsa patenting di tswa mo Botswana, re fule sengwe mo go ene.
Go a tlhokafala jaaka Honourable Hikuama a ntse a bua, ga ke omane, ene o a bo a ntse a omana as usual.

We have to train batho mo this knowledge economy infrastructure gore e re fa go sena go dirwa research, you must have patent lawyers trained.

We must have all other people who matter in this systems infrastructure ya research.

Re se ka ra itlhaganelela go ya go dira research fela, re dire the whole infrastructure gore e thuse go godisa itsholelo ya magae.
Gape ke dumela gore jaaka ke bua ka system infrastructure, processes involved from the commencement of research go ya go felela kwa prototype, di tshwanetse to be monitored.

Ra bo re di bapisa le gore should the research be successful, how ready are we and quickly how apt are we, gore re simolole re tseye that prototype and replicate it e nne a business bogolo jang for export.

There are certain products tse e leng gore they are available anywhere in the world.
Take hoodia; go dirilwe research ka yone mme propagation and production ga e yo, mme it is in demand.

Kwa America those who gym ba a ja hoodia lose weight, ba nna sentle.

It is a health …(inaudible)… but it is a health nnetlane e e tshwanetseng go tseelwa dikgato ka bofefo.

There are so many products all over the country tse ke kopang gore re di potlakele.

O se ka wa dira o le nosi Honourable Letsholathebe ka gore tse dingwe re setse re na le prototypes, maphata a a lebaneng ba itlhaganele.
CEDA le BDC must be …(inaudible)… ka gore we have ready market for such products.

Ke yone itsholelo, the knowledge-based economy, village-based economy, employment creation, go godisa mohama wa kitso gore re nne le itsholelo e e ikaegileng ka tsone.

Motlotlegi Tautona fa a bua, o a bo a raya gone jaana.

Ga se ditoro.

Ke itumela thata le kwa meepong re bua gore go setse go simolotswe research.
Tumelo ya me ke gore, limestone e ntsintsi e e mo Botswana e, we should be using it kwa Selebi Phikwe le Morupule.

Jaanong we are importing lime why; re na le lime e e kanakana mo Botswana.

Look at the figures, researchers bo Rre Keorapetse can do the figures ba re bolelela gore tota madi a tlhola a reka limestone, re ntse re na le limestone fa Letlhakeng le fa Serorome e e ka dirang cement, e e ka dirisiwang kwa power generation ya Morupule.

Dilo tse re tshwanetse go di tsibogela bagaetsho.


BDC, CEDA and all other interested financiers must be ready to accept these ka gore there are ready markets for these.

This is import substitution and we even have better quality jaaka o bua o re clinker e e kwa Letlhakeng is better quality than the one we import.

Ke ne ke kopa gore ngodiego e re se ka ra etsa Bangwaketse ra apaya ka katsojane mme re le bana bantsi.

Ga ke itse gore a le a e itse pitsa e gotweng katsojane.

Ke a leboga Modulasetilo.


MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

Ke emela go galaletsa e bile ke leboge Motlotlegi Tona Dr Douglas Letsholathebe ka pego e a re e beileng pele le kopo ya gagwe.

Ke re tota e ne e ka nna mang gape yo o ka dirang tiro e kwa lephateng le, le le nang le dikgwetlho tse di seng kana ka sepe?

Le tlhoka motho yo o tlhaloganyang tiro e e fa pele ga gagwe.
Go botlhokwa thata Mr Chair gore ke supe gore golo mo go nnontshitseng pelo le go feta ke gore Motlotlegi Tona o tsere go feta sephatlo sa mafoko a a re a beileng pele a itebagantse le kgang ya dipatlisiso le ditlhabololo (research and development).
He has dedicated nako ya gagwe e e ntsi a bua ka ntlha e. Ntlha e ke yone e re buileng ka yone re le phathi ya Botswana Democratic 3 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Party (BDP) mo manifesto wa rona wa 2019.
Intellectuals across disciplines tsa dithuto ka go farologana ba bua thata ka yone gore fa go na le sengwe se re ntseng re saletse kwa morago ka sone mo lefatsheng la rona, ke research and development.

Bona gore Tona jaanong o utlwile dilelo tsa Batswana ka go farologana le tsa barutegi.

E bile gape o a bona tota gore ga go na sepe se re ka se kgonang without research and development.
Ke sone se e leng gore ga ke gakgamale Mr Chair gore monna yo o sikere setlankana se sa PhD mme a itswela fela kwa motseng wa Tsamaya.

O itsenetse sekole gone koo a ya kwa Tshesebe a ya go tsena junior koo mme a ya McConnell.

Ngwana fela wa Modimo yo o itswelang kwa Bokalaka yo o itshwanelang le nna le wena Rra Nkamo, yo o godileng go na le dikgwetlho kwa lelwapeng.
E bo e le gore jaanong o tla ka ditsholofetso tse di kanakana tse e leng gore o a di bona gore golo mo go dira motho a tlhaloganya tiro ya gagwe.

Ke batla go nopola dintlha di le pedi ka kgang e ya research and development which are very key mo presentation ya ga Honourable Letsholathebe e le go supa resolve ya gagwe gore o batla go bona golo mo go diragetse fa Modimo a santse a mo tshegeditse a mo adimile maemo a a tshotseng a.
A re o ya go itebaganya thata le kgang ya National Research Ethics and Integrity Policy.

Ga go na sepe se re ka se dirang without a policy Mr Chairperson.

Ke sone se tota ke batlang go ema mokaulengwe nokeng e bile ke mo rotloetse gore a tswelele ka gore ga go na jaaka re ka simolola sepe go sena moalo, go sena sepe se se re kaelang gore re ya go tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Gore researchers tsa rona ba bo ba kgona go dira tiro e go sena dilo tse di tshwanang le bo misconduct and unethical behavior, ke gone gore jaanong re bo re na le a policy in place e e tlileng go re thusa to guide ka fa re yang go dira ka teng ga mmogo le gone to guide researchers.

Sa bobedi o tla ka fund e e leng gore e bile o setse a le kgakala thata mo go yone.
O bua gore o establish a National Research Fund e e tlileng go thusa gore go bo go na le letlole le, le le tlaabong le thusa researchers gore ba kgone go dira tiro ya bone ba phuthologile ba sa sokole ka gore kwa ke yang teng ke dira jang fa e le gore they want to engage bana ba ba ka ba thusang, research assistants jalo le jalo e bo e le gore mme gone madi ga e na go nna mathata mo go kalokalo.

Ke selo se se ntseng se tshwenya bana ba rona ba ba nang le maikaelelo a go dira research ka go farologana.
Mo go Honourable Letsholathebe Mr Chair, ga se ba Tati East fela ba bolaileng, lefatshe la Botswana re tshwanetse re ipone re bolaile.

O dirile dithuto tse di tona thata tse e leng gore bangwe ba rona di a re ketefalela, bo Nanotechnology, Plasma and High Temperature Physics.

Ke dithuto tse di tona.

Gore o di tlhaloganye ke gore o bo o tsaya malatsi, dibeke, dikgwedi le dingwaga o bala ka dilo tse.

O a kgona go bona gore gone fa mme ministry o o na le motho yo o maleba.
Ke sone se e leng gore even at Cabinet meetings ga a kgale mathe go bua ka lephata le la gagwe.

Ke ne ke batla go ntsha dintlha tse dingwe ke tse le fa ke sa bone Mr Chairperson.

Fa go ne go ka kgonagala gore ke tle ke bone gore ke setse ka nako e e kae, ba ga rona ka koo ba mpontshe.

Ke batla Honourable Minister ke itse bokgoni jwa gago, passion ya gago ka go tlhabolola thuto e kgolwane ga mmogo le tse di tsamaelanang le yone.
Kgang e ya Technical and Vocational Education and Training (TVET) jaaka o e buile o e tlatlamelele thata.

O tsenye maatla mo go yone le go feta Honourable Letsholathebe.

Re utlwa botlhoko fa e le gore nako le nako re bona batho ba ba tswang kwa mafatsheng a mangwe e le bone ba ba re thusang mo go tse re di tlhokang tse e bileng di na le madi a a seng kana ka sepe.
Kgang e e botlhokwa thata gore re kgone go bona re tseetse TVET fa godimo, re e tlhabolotse go feta ka fa e ntseng ka teng gore bana ba rona kamoso ba bo ba na le the right skills, relevant skills tse di ka re thusang gore kamoso re bo re kgona go itirela.

Fa o batla welder kana plumber e bo e le gore dilo tse tsotlhe ba ka di dira re sa tlhoke to rely mo go baditšhaba gore ba tle go re direla ditiro tsone tse.
Go dingalo gore o ye kwa Zimbabwe o bo o fitlhela e le gore ke Batswana fela ba ba dirang plumbing, carpeting, ke bone electricians, jalo le jalo.

It is unusual gore re fitlhele lefatshe le ntse jaana.

Golo mo Honourable Letsholathebe, ga se kgang epe fela ya gore Goromente ga a support kana mang ga a reng.

Ke kgang ya gore rona re le Batswana re tshwanetse re ikiteye ka thupana gore dilo tse re di dire and we need an enabler, an enabler ke wena Honourable Letsholathebe.
Ke itumela thata gore o buile ka High Performance Centre le Arts and Culture Centre.

Di bua ka lephata la rona.

Minister, ke a go galaletsa ka High Performance Centre le ba o dirang le bone gore golo mo go botlhokwa thata.

Go tlaa re thusa to enhance talents tsa rona tsa mo metshamekong ka gore re nna re romela bana ba rona kwa High Performance Centre ya Pretoria, kwa mafatsheng a mangwe gore ba ye go dira training e e tseneletseng gone koo.
Jaaka o setse o supile e le gore you launched it maloba le ntswa re ne re sa kgona go bonala ka re ne re le mo go tse dingwe, gone moo ka bogone ke ne ke re ke go galaletse.

4 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Se sengwe gape ke Arts and Culture Centre.

Institutions tse di tshwanang le bo University of Botswana di tsaya bana ba backgrounds tse di farologanyeng.
Ngwana o tlaabo a tswa kwa Seronga kwa Okavango, Semolale kwa Bobirwa, kwa go Honourable Motsamai le Phitshane, ba tla ka ditumelo ga mmogo le dingwao tse di farologanyeng.

Ke gone fa re somarelang culture and heritage tsa rona gone foo, re di godisa.

Ke lebogela gore kgang e o bo o e tsentse mo go wena.

Re tlile go bereka mmogo go feta ka fa re ntseng re bereka ka teng Honourable Minister gore re kgone go tlhapholola dilo tse.
Ga ke ise ke bone nako Mr Chairperson, ga ke itse le gore ke setse ka nako e e kae ka gore ke ne ke na le dintlha tse pedi tse tharo tse ke neng ke batla go feta ka tsone.

Ke na le nako e e kae sir?

nakong ya gompieno, ka gore go a bo go na le yone cut-off points.

E le gore bana ba ba botlhaletlhaletlhale.

Gongwe ngwana a dirilwe ke gore kwa go Form Five go na le sengwe se se mo kgoreleditseng, a bo a sa pase Botswana General Certificate for Secondary Education (BGCSE) ya gagwe.
Jaanong to sponsor ngwana yo go botlhokwatlhokwa, go na le gore re bo re ya to sponsor motho wa madimadi wa dilo tse di seng kana ka sepe mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Ke a leboga Honourable Minister, ke a leboga Honourable Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Minister.

Honourable Member for Sefhare-Ramokgonami.

…Silence… MR CHAIRPERSON: One minute.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Rraagwe Kitso tsaya floor.


MR RAKGARE: E nngwe Honourable Letsholathebe e ke neng ke rile re tlaa bua ka yone ke ya gore a re lebelele lekgotla le la BQA.

Re na le bana ba ba nang le ditoro.

Mma ke go bolelele Honourable Minister, ke kile ka nna le toro ke santse ke le ngwananyana ke le mosimanyana to establish a sports college mo lefatsheng la Botswana go neela bana ba rona ba ba ratang metshameko training mo dikgannyeng tsa bo Sport Management le bo coaching jalo le jalo.
Toro e e ne ya phirimisiwa fela ke gore to develop course, go batla a consultant to develop a course for you.

It is very expensive, kamoso to develop policies is very expensive.
I think you and I need to have a conversation re bue ka kgang e, gore a mme mo melawaneng ya BQA a re ka se ke re bone phatlha ya gore banana when you are between ages of 18 and 35 a re ka se ke re bone gore mme gone re ka ba fokoletsa jang, gore ba kgone go dira dilo tse and own institutions tsa higher learning, gore bana ba rona le bone matshelo a bone a kgone go tlhabologa.
Sa bofelo Minister, ke santse ke bua kgang e, ke e buile fa re tsena mo Palamenteng, you know go nna re bona batho, motho fela o utlwa gotwe ke property mogul a ya kwa Department of Tertiary Education Funding (DTEF) a ya go galefa a bua gore bongwanake ga ba a tsenyediwa allowance, that is a very wrong Honourable Minister.

Dilo tse jaaka o buile ka tsone gore o ya go di baakanya, re tshwanetse re di baakanye.
Re tshwanetse re itse gore go na le bana ba e leng gore ba bangwe they attain points di le bo 35, 34, 33 ba e leng gore e ya bo e se gore they have failed, ba ntshediwa kwa ntle fela ke ka fa re dirang ka teng mo MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke ne ke re ke supe fela gore… MR HIKUAMA: On a point of procedure Mr Chairperson.

Procedure e ke e kopang ke gore, a slot se ga se sa rona?

Fa go tswa go bua ba babedi ba tlhomagane ba BDP go tshwanetse gore go ye kwa opposition.
MR CHAIRPERSON: Ga a yo wa opposition.

MR HIKUAMA: You did not check le Whip.

Nnyaa, Mr Chairperson, it is not fair.

Batho ba teng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, it cannot be like that Mr Chairperson.

This is our slot.

Check with our Whip and Acting Leader of the Opposition.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Iketle pele.

Ba batlang go bua ba kwala mo chat.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa sir.

MR CHAIRPERSON: May we have order please!

We cannot have the two of you shouting at me.

I am not going to allow that.

You cannot!


You are not going to talk to me like that!

It is either Keorapetse or yourself.

MR HIKUAMA: Ke kopile procedure akere Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Please, go ahead.

MR HIKUAMA: Ke re ga o ka ke wa neela slot sa rona maBDP.

That is my procedure.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Honourable Member.

I will come back to you.


5 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR BROOKS: Thank you Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Brooks iketle pele!

Re emetse ruling golo fa.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ba neela fela or not?

MR CHAIRPERSON: Rraetsho, kana o buile.

It is now for me to come back to you.

Ke go reeditse, ntheetsa ke boele kwa go wena.

MR HIKUAMA: You cannot allow Brooks to continue.


MR CHAIRPERSON: Please, keep quiet.

I have to talk to you Honourable Hikuama.

Please, keep quiet!

MR HIKUAMA: Ee rra.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Dr Gobotswang is not available despite the fact that I have called him many times.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Have you checked with our Whip?

MR CHAIRPERSON: Keorapetse, it is not my problem, it is not my responsibility to check with your Whip.

MR KEORAPETSE: It is.

That is where you are wrong.


MR CHAIRPERSON: It is not my responsibility.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gongwe you should park Keorapetse Mr Speaker, o kare o re itaya tsebe.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Ke tlaa mo tswalela gone jaana.

Whip ya lona all the time o tlisa maina kwa go nna ke sa mo kopa.

Ke tiro ya gagwe.

Ga e ka ke ya re a sa a tlisa ka bo ke tlhola ke mo lelekile.

Please let us allow the debate to go on.

Please!

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!


)… MR BROOKS: Mr Chairperson, ke re ke latlhele la mmotlana mo kgannyeng e e sa tswang go buiwa e… MR CHAIRPERSON: Ema pele Brooks.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, ga o ka ke wa latlhela la mmotlana mo slot sa rona.

Iketle pele wena.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order Hikuama?

MR HIKUAMA: It is not in order Mr Chairperson gore o bo o tsaya space sa rona o se neela maBDP.
O tlhola o reetsa chief Whip Kablay a fetola batho gone fa ba seyo, o ba bitsa, o bo o mo letlelela chance ya to replace batho ba ba seyong.

Why can you not do the same to us, that is not fair?

Fa e le gore batho ba o ba beditseng ga ba yo, you should consult our Whip and the Leader of the opposition to give you the name.

O tlhola o go dira, ga se tlholo ntsha.

O tlhola o dira jalo.

Kana o dira fela fa e le maBDP?

MR MOTSAMAI: Procedure Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, ke ne ke re o re fe chance.


Kana tota ke ntse ke lebile e le gore ke reeditse ke batla go itse gore gatwe go diragala eng.

Re fe chance re go neele motho a kgone gore a akgele.

Ga re ka ke ra kgona gore re tlogele slot sa opposition re se neele maBDP ba bo ba tsamaya ba ikgalaletsa fela go sena ope yo o ba gakololang.

Kana bone fela fa ba emelela sa bone ke go ikgalaletsa le go itumela.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Give the Whip the chance to give you the name.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Which Whip, wa Botswana Congress Party (BCP) kana Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC)?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: We are here.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Which one, wa BCP kana UDC?

Kana diphathi had multiplied golo fa.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Chairperson, we are here and ready.

MR MOTSAMAI: Neela Keorapetse Mr Chairperson o ready, a akgele.

Kante fa le re wa UDC kana wa BCP le raya eng?

Ga re itse ope yo o kwadileng lekwalo a supa gore ga a mo UDC.

Re maUDC.
Re maUDC.

Re maUDC, maBCP, maBotswana Patriotic Front (BPF), re batho ba kganetso.

Ga le ka ke la tla go re bolelela gore a re a farologana kana re a dumalana.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Just a minute Honourable Brooks.

Heela Keorapetse!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, Walker o siilwe ke dinako.

MR BROOKS: Nnyaa, buang sentle le nna tlhe banna.

Buang sentle, ke tlhokana le tlotlo, ke a le tlotla.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ja nako Motsamai.

Letlelela debate e tsene.


6 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke a le itsise gore… (inaudible)… ditokitoki.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Chairperson.

Procedure Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, tsamaya o ye go itsise bagalona monna o re sutele to debate.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Brooks.

Iketle pele Rakgare.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Can we have order please!


Honourable Moagi, stop arguing with these people.

Honourable Motsamai, Standing Order 10.3 Sub Section (ii) (b) state categorically that, “the Whip of the Opposition shall submit names to the Speaker for the people from his party that need to speak.” You have done that before, but this time motho wa gago yo o neng o mo kwadile ga a yo.

You failed… HONOURABLE MEMBER: You should go back to the Whip, the same way you go to Kablay.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!

)… MR CHAIRPERSON: Motsamai, ga o a tlisa maina.

Standing Order sa re o tlise maina gore fa yo o mo kwadileng a seyo go tsenngwe mang.

Ga o a tlisa.

Ga go na leina la Opposition.

I have given the slot to Honourable Member for Kgalagadi South.

Honourable Brooks, please continue.

MR BROOKS: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ba ne ba ntswaletse ka koo Mr Chairperson.

Ke re gape ke kope mo bakaulengweng… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!
)… MR CHAIRPERSON: Please unmute yourself.

MR BROOKS: You have muted me that side Mr Chairperson.

Ke ne ke re ke ikopele mo bakaulengweng gore I am one Member of Parliament (MP) yo e leng gore ke tlotla Mopalamente mongwe le mongwe mo Ntlong e. So ke kopa respect e e ntseng jalo go tswa ka kwa go bone.

Ga nke ke gagaana le ope… HONOURABLE MEMBER: We cannot allow these things to continue like this.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Chairperson, can you park these people.
Mr Chairperson, tsaya taolo o kobe batho ba, ga re ka ke ra emela bone fela mo Palamenteng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: He would rather park us.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Koba batho ba Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR BROOKS: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Nnyaa, ke ne ke… MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Brooks, please unmute yourself.

MR BROOKS: Thank you.

Ke tswalelwa ke ofisi ya gago ka koo, jaanong go nna jaaka e kete ke nna ke itswalelang Mr Chairperson.
Ke ne ke re ke tsene mo kgannyeng e re sa tswang go e bewa pele ke itebegantse le ofisi ya ga Tona Letsholathebe.

Tona, re go eme nokeng mo kgannyeng ya gago ya kopo ya madi mme ke batla gore ke go lemotshe sengwe se gongwe re ntseng re sa ele tlhoko thata Rraetsho Tona.

Lefatshe la Botswana ka fa le dirilweng ka teng, ka fa Modimo a le kgaogantseng ka teng ka ditso le batho ba lone fela jalo, golo moo go raya gore o tshwanetse wa tsenya leitlho le le tseneletseng.
Ke dumela gore mmopi yo o neng a bopa lefatshe la Botswana o dirile jalo a tlisa banna ba tshwana le wena ba ba botlhale, ba ba tshwanetsweng ke go sekaseka, ba tseye dikgato tsa gagwe ba di sale morago gore batho ba ba mo tikologong nngwe le nngwe ba tshwanetse go tshidisiwa ka se se mo tikologong eo.

Ke bua jaana Tona ke re gongwe fa o lebile Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi, o tlaa lemoga gore golo gongwe species tsa diphologolo, ditlhare jalojalo ga di tshwane.
Ga di ka ke tsa tshwana le tsa Ghanzi, Bokone Botlhaba, Bokone Bophirima kana Legare la lefatshe le.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, go batla gore ministry wa gago o o leng mongwe wa ministries tse di dirang ditshekatsheko, o dire ditshekatsheko… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Chairperson, procedure.

MR BROOKS: …basing on se lefatshe le ka fa tikologo e ntseng ka teng, e lebile the culture ya batho ba kgaolo eo e ka ba thusang ka teng.
I am actually saying this fa ke lebile Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi Borwa, Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi Bokone le Kgaolo ya Ghanzi Borwa tse e leng gore more or less, o fitlhela e le gore di a tsamaelana.

Go dilo tse dintsi rraetsho tse di tshwaraganyang go tswa fela kwa ditsong tse di batlang o dira go tseneletse thata; nngwe ya tsone ke Sengaparile.
7 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Ke bua laboraro mo Palamenteng e ke fiwa tshono ke Modulasetilo gore ke latlhele kgang e e tlhamalatseng.
Nngwe ya dilo tse rona ba dikgaolo tse ke sa tswang go di balolola, tse re tlaa go lebang ka leitlho le le botlhoko ke gore le tlogetse sengaparile, mafatshe ba tswa kwa ba tla go se tsaya ba tsamaya ka sone, ba ya go itirela melemo le ntse le re le dira dipatlisiso.

Go dingwaga tse dintsintsi thata setlhatsana se sa sengaparile se dira melemo kwa mafatsheng a sele mme re na le bana le bomaitseanape mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Fa re ne re ka ema ka dinao ra dirisa setlhatsana se, bana ba dikgaolo tse ke sa tswang go di balolola tse, ba ka bona ditiro.

O ka bona o bula research centre e tonatona e e itebagantseng le dimela mo Kgaolong ya Kgalagadi Borwa e tshwana le Tsabong jalojalo.
Dipatlisiso di sa tswa go supa gore setlhare se sa sexanana se se re tshwenyang thata mo Kgaolong ya Kgalagadi, ke nngwe ya ditlhare tse e leng gore fa o dirile magala ka sone jaaka go na le a charcoal project kwa Bokspits kana mo Kgaolong ya Lehututu, subject to be corrected, that is the best coal you can get in Southern Africa; I am saying the best.
Ke sone se e rileng maabane o bua, ka go botsa gore a o ne wa tsaya bangwe ba bana ba rona le this product ya bone wa ba isa kwa Dubai gore le bone ba ye go supa gore Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi, lefatshe la Botswana le na le eng.

Re na le batsadi ba ba dirang kofi ya Motopi ka kwano mme go felela fela mo diatleng tsa bone.
O dira go le kae go leka go dira dipatlisiso tse di tseneletseng gore motho yo o kwa Amerika le mafatshe a selekane, ba itse gore motopi o o tswa mo lefatsheng la Botswana, segolobogolo kwa Kgaolong ya Kgalagadi?

Go metopitopi fela mo lefatsheng le lotlhe, e mengwe ke e e botlhoko, e mengwe ke e e monate fela mme go itse bone ba ba o epang gore o ka tswa o ntse jang.

Dilo tse ke dingwe tse re tshwanetseng go di go lebisa rraetsho.
Re na le mme yo ke tlaa kopang gore o ntetlelele ke mmue, yo o dirang jam ya lengangale mo Kgaolong ya Kgalagadi, Mmaetsho Eva Motlhanke mo Maubelo ka fa Tsabong.

Fa re ka tsaya product ya gagwe ra ya go e lekeletsa ra bona fa e siame, she has tested it mme re tlhokana le boitseanape jo bo tekeletso e gore batho ba itirele ditiro.

Bo kgengwe jaaka Rre Molale a sa tswa go bua, bo mekawa e teng mo Kgaolong ya Kgalagadi.
Mahupu a teng, segolo jang Kgaolo ya Maralaleng, a re ka bayang kampanyana fela e e leng gore dipula di nele jaana, re itse gore re ya go dira ditekeletso ka mahupu, batho ba tikologo eo ba tlaa kgona go bona something out of this product.

Dilo tse rraetsho re tshwanetse go di bua le wena, re supe gore kgaolo ya rona e na le eng.

Ke letse ke go bolelela gore re tswa kgakala le Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi, ke rona ba re simolotseng selo se gotweng romo.

Romo ke product e e tswang mo mashing.


Re ne re bitsa this machine a separator e e kgaoganyang the cream and the milk.

Mashi a mo temeng ya segompieno re ka bo re re this is a waste, batsadi ba rona ba ne ba a tsaya ba dira madila, ba a omisa, ba bo ba a romela Aferika Borwa.

Ke one a a dirang tupperwares le plastics.

Re tlhokana le this research gore o e dire.

Research e ntsi thata rraetsho… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.

MR BROOKS: …re ne re kile ra ya go kopana le officers kwa Kgaolong ya Lobu.
O ye kwa Lobu o ye go baya ofisinyana fale, batho ba gago ba dire research mo tikologong gore e tle e kgone go re berekela.

Rraetsho, ga ke batle go tswala ke sa go kopa gore re santse re na le kgwetlho.

Dikole tsa rona mo lefatsheng la Botswana go tswa kwa go Standard 1 go ya go fitlhela kwa go Form 5, fa ba fetsa dikole.

Toro ya bone e nngwefela ya gore ba batla go ya go felela kwa dikoleng tse ditona di tshwana le universities; ba batla go ya tertiary.
Jaanong fa diemo kwa tertiary di se conducive and accessible, re nna le mathata a gore re ya go felela re na le bana ba Junior Certificate (JC) le cambridge who roam the streets.

Golo mo rraetsho tsenya leitlho, o bone gore o atolosa jang dikole tse Tona.

Re sale re kopile a technical college mo Kgaolong ya Tsabong, 20 years back to date.

Ke letse ke dira dipalo tsa me maabane ke tswa go batla minutes tsa khansele, tsa nako e ke neng ke le Mokhanselara.
Your very office came to Tsabong go re solofetsa dilo tse tsotlhe.

Dilo tse fa di ne di le teng, re ka bo re itse gore bana ba Kgalagadi fa re bua ka technical college, ba tsena gone foo, ba ithuta ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Fa re bua ka the knowledge-based; to move away from resource-based to knowledge-based, we are actually looking right in your hands gore what do you have, what are your plans rraetsho?
Ke sone se o tlaa fitlhelang re bua re sa oshaoshe ka gore re a bo re bua re itse gore re lebile mo mabogong a motho yo o tlhaloganyang, yo o tlaa bonang gore o tsaya kgaolo jaaka ke sa tswa go e bega, a atolose dikitso le dinonofo mo go yone.
Ya bofelo ke ne ke re ke se ka ka feta ke sa e bua rraetsho ke gore ke santse ke bona bana ba ba tswang 8 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) mo Kgalagadi ba sotlega.

Ngwana wa Struizendam kana Khawa fa a pasitse sentle a amogelwa kwa university, a bo a sena boroko gotlhelele kwa.
Tla ke beye sekai ka batlotlegi ba ba ka se keng ba ntseye ka tsela epe; o tsaya ngwana wa ga Honourable Lefoko le Honourable Balopi ba na le matlo mo Gaborone, o bo o mo fa boroko kwa university.

Wa re yo o tswang Kgalagadi ene, a ye kwa kae?

A ga o bone go tshwanela gore bogolo jaanong re tsene mo go reng bana ba ba tswang kgakala re ba fe slot; ba bo ba ntse ba na le slot sa bone about 30 per cent sa accommodation; bana ba tswa bo Shakawe le Maun ba ba sa itseng Gaborone gotlhelele.
Tla ke go fe elucidation Honourable, two seconds.

MR MOTSAMAI: Elucidation.

Ke ne ke re o e tshwere sentle; fa o remeletse mo kgannyeng ya knowledge- based economy.

Ke tsaya gore o lebile kgaolo ya gago e e nang le morafe o o nang le ngwao ya khumo jaaka Baherero le Bakgothu, especially Baherero ba ba tswang kgakala ba dira dilo tse di tshwanang le maaro a borre le go dira dilo tse dingwe go godisa ngwao, gore Tona a tsibogele dikgang tseo.

Ke a leboga.

MR BROOKS: Thank you sir.


Ke sone se ke neng ke re ke ya go wetsa ka sone seo, gore gompieno, re na le mabitla a a kwa Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park (KTP) a batho ba teng, ba supa ba ne ba tlile go dira research mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

KTP ke raya o tsena ka Two Rivers o feta bo Nossop, o ya kwa Polentswa.

Re batla gore re ye go leba gore ke eng se se mo kgaolong ya Kgalagadi, se batho ba ba neng ba tswa kwa Jeremane, ba se lwela ka kwano.
Ke eng se se neng se dira gore batho ba tswa kwa Jeremane, ba tle go dira ditekeletso ka kwano, re lebile diatla tsa gago Tona.

Rraetsho, re go eme nokeng, ke a itse gore o na le bokgoni, Modimo a go fe thata le nonofo, go tlaa siama.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Brooks.

Honourable Member for Sefhare-Ramokgonami!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go tsena nna foo Mr Chairperson.

MR MOTSAMAI: Ke kopa procedure Mr Chairperson.

Ba dumalane le Motlotlegi wa Sefhare-Ramokgonami gore a tswelele Mr Chairperson.
Mo go yone procedure e Mr Chairperson, ke bo ke kopa gore o leke go nna o ntheetsa, fela jaaka o kgona go reetsa Liakat Kablay.

Ga se gore nako le nako, re tlaa kgona go nna re go kwalela kana re fetola list re le koo.

Fa gongwe re kgona go buisana ka gore Standing Order sa re re submit list kana leina, leina o ka le submit ka go bua kana ka mokwalo, le ka tsela e nngwe Mr Chairperson.

So ke kopa gore o ntheetse gape, ke go tlotla fela thata Mr Chairperson.
Jaanong se sengwe sa bofelo, bana ba gago koo, fa ke ntse ke kopa point of procedure, ke le humble, ke tlaabo ke tswalelwa fela, ke sa kgone gore ke bue le wena Mr Chairperson.

Golo mo ga go re jese monate, ga se gore re a bo re phadimoga, re re nnyaa, re kopa procedures what, what.

Mr Chairperson, ke leboge gore o mphile nako ya go rialo.

Tanki.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR CHAIRPERSON: May we have order please.

MR MOTSAMAI: Tanki Mr Chairperson.


MR CHAIRPERSON: Nnyaa, ke a go utlwa Honourable Motsamai.

Mme kgalemela Mapalamente a gago, ke monna fela yo motona jaaka bone.

Keorapetse le Hikuama, ga ba na tlotlo mo go nna.

Standing Order se tlhamaletse, ke wena o tlisang maina kwa go nna, fa o sa a tlise, ga ke ka ke ka emisa Palamente.

MR KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.
Mr Chairperson, re kwadile mo maitlamong a Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC), mo page 71 gore tertiary education, we seek to strengthen collaborative partnership in higher educational and research development.

Ra bo re kwala gape gore the UDC will support tertiary education to ensure that it takes the lead in producing relevant skills for the market, now and in the future, and in supporting innovation and policy development for the Fourth Industrial Revolution (4IR).
To this end, we had indicated gore there is a need to establish a Botswana Research Council.

My point e tlaa simolola gone foo gore a re nne le a Research Council Honourable Dr Letsholathebe, ka gore yone Research Council e, sa ntlha, we fund research and development because without research and development adequately funded, re tlaa nna le mathata a gore ga re ke re nna le dikitso.
You are talking about knowledge-based economy, go tewa e le gore fa o lebelela the rate at which we register patents, not just trademarks, trademarks yes, we register everyday but patents are very important because tsone kana di supa the level of knowledge e e tswang mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

I have asked a question in the past about the extent to which we register patents in our country and the results were very disappointing.
Ke ne 9 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) ke kopa gore a re lekeng thata bagaetsho, gore fa re ntse re fetlha khumo ya lefatshe go nna le madi, a madi a mantsi a ye kwa research and development gore go nne le dikitso, re tsene mo kgannyeng ya knowledge-based economy ka boammaaruri.

Go botlhokwa gore o oketse allowances tsa bana ba dikole tsa tertiary.
Sa ntlha ke tlaa simolola fela ka gore akofang le tseye brigades le technical colleges di tswe ka fa tlase ga Ministry wa Labour and Skills Development, di tle ka fa tlase ga Tertiary Education, le bo le oketsa allowances tsa bone.

E seng bone fela, botlhe bana ba ba mo tertiary.

Allowances, mo manifesto wa rona ka 2019, we had put the figure at P2,500 morago ga tshekatsheko ya go bona gore dikatso tsa bone di ka nna ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Jaanong akofang le sekaseke dikatso tsa bana ba tertiary, le di oketse.

Gape le ba reetse, gangwe le gape o ba bitse bana ba Student Representative Council (SRC), o nne le bone.

Rona re ne re e tle re tle go bua le bo Rre Kgoroba le bo Rre Nkate, ba santse ba le Ministers tsa Education, re ne re itse diofisi tsa bone.

Jaanong a bana ba ba itse diofisi tsa gago, go buisanngwe.

Ke gore fela we were disappointed by morena Mmusi nako nngwe re re re … (Inaudible)… Domkrag kwa University of Botswana (UB).
Ba reetse, ba nne ba tle kwa ofising ya gago.

Mr Chairperson, we had suggested gore building a world class sports academy is urgent.
Mme ke ne ke dumela gore go tshwanetse go nne le collaboration between Ministry wa Tertiary Education le wa Youth and Sport gore as an alternative in the meantime, Goromente a simolole programme ya gore bana ba le 100, ngwaga le ngwaga from various sporting codes; a e ka nna karate, football, athletics kana eng fela, be placed kana ba tsenngwe in professional academies mo lefatsheng ka bophara.
College sport, a re boeleng kwa go yone, bo Dipsy Selolwane jaaka ba ne ba le kwa United States (US), kwa lenaneong la gore at least as a bare minimum, 100 young people, ba tsenngwe in world class sports facilities across the world, re extend golo mo to the performing arts.

Ke buile gangwe le gape, ke tlaa tswelela ke ipoeletsa, go tswa fela kwa 11th Parliament gore a re fetoleng kgang ya to sponsor bana for Post Graduate.
Bana ba ba tsayang Second Class Upper Division, ke gore fa o tsere Grade Point Average (GPA) e e tshwanang le ya me ya 4 go ya kwa godimo, GPA ya me e ne e le 4 Honourable Dr Letsholathebe, kana e a bo e le GPA e e kwa godimo, so a bana ba le ba sponsor for Masters go ya go ema ka PhD.

Ga se bana botlhe ba ba batlang go dira Post Graduate Qualifications, mme golo mo can increase employability ya bone locally, regionally and internationally.
Fa o bona batswakwa ba tletse mo lefatsheng la rona la Botswana, go tsweng fela ba ba neng ba re ruta kwa secondary le senior secondary schools, ga ke gakologelwe ke na le science teacher kwa Selebi Phikwe Senior Secondary School (SPSS) yo e neng e se motswakwa.

Go ne go na le bo Rre Kapambwe le Rre Mikhiza ba tswa kwa Zambia, Mme Jegede ba tswa kwa Nigeria, ba re ruta the sciences.
Jaanong ka lebaka leo, ka re sponsor bana go fitlhelela ba tsaya Masters le PhDs, ba GPAs tse di kwa godimo, ba ba tlhoafaletseng sekole thata mo ba nyoretsweng thuto.

Gone mo fa o bona in international institutions go tletse maNigeria, maGhana le maZambia, it is because batho bao ba ne ba rutiwa go ya go fitlhelela kwa levels tsone tseo.
Lenaneo la Top Achievers, ke dumela gore fa o lebelela fela in big international companies, go tlwaelesegile kwa bo America gore such companies or even maphata a a rileng a ga Goromente a a tseelwang kwa godimo, ba rata go tsaya bana ba ba tswang from Ivy League universities.

Jaanong mo Top Achievers, select crème de la crème mo go bone, send them to Ivy League institutions.
Gone moo kamoso, re tlaabo re utlwa gotwe Motswana o kwa NASA, o ruta kwa Cambridge, Oxford, Yale le Harvard, kana go nnile le innovation e e rileng which will be attributed to Motswana.

Fa re ka isa bana, le fa o ka nna o tlhopha 10 every year, o isa to Ivy League, they are very expensive, yes, but go nna expensive moo, go tla le ka quality, go tla le ka gore our national flag e ka isiwa (raise) kwa godimo.
UB, Botswana University of Agriculture and Natural Resources (BUAN) le Botswana International University of Science and Technology (BIUST) a ko o lekalekanye salaries le dikatso tsa lecturers.

Fa o le Honourable Dr Letsholathebe kana o le Honourable Dr Tshabang, o ruta chemistry kana physics kwa UB, duelwa fela jaaka yo o rutang chemistry le physics kwa BIUST.
There is nothing special about BIUST, yes, it is a university of science and technology and it was a new university, but Batswana ba rutegile ba le bantsi ba ba ka rutang mo universities tse tsotlhe.

A re se ka ra bona e le gore motho jaanong a ruta selo se le sengwefela mo universities tsa state tsotlhe, a bo e le gore jaanong dituelo tsa bone di farologane.
UB e latlheletswe thata, go na le lebaka e sa okeletswe budget, batlhatlhelela dithuto ba yone, fa go nna le dikoketso bone ga ba okeletswe le support staff.

Nnyaa, ela tlhoko ntlha e thata.

10 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Ela tlhoko acting appointments kwa UB.
I am concerned, up to now ga ke itse gore a go na le any substantive Deputy Vice Chancellor Academic Affairs, Deputy Vice Chancellor Student Affairs, Deputy Vice Chancellor Finance and Admin.

Up to now go na le Deans tse e santseng e le Acting Deans, go na le Directors tse e leng Acting Directors.

Golo mo ga go njese diwelang Mr Chairperson, le wena Honourable Minister.

A ko o ele tlhoko ntlha e, acting appointments di dintsi kwa UB.
Bana ba Batswana ba le bantsi ba ba hirwang kwa UB, ba hirwa ka dikonteraka mme they qualify.

O kgona go bona e bile go nna le advert, go tlogelwa motho yo o mo teng, go ya go ntshiwa advert kwa ntle.

A ko o ele tlhoko kgang e. Kgang ya Lekalake Dispensation, e ne e le kgang e e siameng.

O e ele tlhoko thata, ka gore fa go ka nna le matswakabele a gore motho cannot be promoted go nna Senior Lecturer, Associate Professor or Full Professor, gotwe ga gona positions, nnyaa ga go a tshwanela gore go nne jalo.
I know that the regulations were amended which by and large have viciated Lekalake Dispensation, but ke dumela gore e ne e le dispensation e e neng e siame.

Ntlha eo o e ele tlhoko thata, gore Batswana a ko ba hirwe on permanent basis ba tlogele go hirwa ka dikonteraka, only foreigners should be appointed on contract.
Sa bofelo, the Ministry of Tertiary Education, Science and Technology should collaborate le Lephata la Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation mo goreng ba coordinate international scholarships for placement ya Batswana mo international universities.

Go na le scholarships which are offered by universities, foundations, multilateral partners le bilateral partners like the Japanese and the Chinese.

Tsamayang le ye to negotiate more slots tsa scholarships.

Ke a kopa ka tswee-tswee.


Ke dirile kopo e gantsinyana, ka ba ka kopa gape gore when you negotiate these scholarships, a ko le nne fa fatshe le bo le dira an employment bureau, where you coordinate employment and placement ya bana mo mafatsheng.
Le lebelele gore ba they graduated mo go eng le bo le dira thulaganyo ya go ba batlela ditiro kwa mafatsheng a sele especially taking advantage of our low representation mo makgotleng a ditšhabatšhaba; bo United Nations (UN), African Union (AU), Southern African Development Community (SADC), kaekae.
O fitlhela re le underrepresented mo agencies tsa UN le mo makalaneng a a farologaneng, coordinate gore bana ba rona ba hirwe mo makalaneng a. Ke a go leboga, e bile ke go ema nokeng ka o mongwe wa maDomkrag ba se kae ba ba gaufinyana le pelo ya me.

MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR MOAGI): Ke a leboga Honourable Chairperson.

Le nna ke tsene ke... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Chairperson.

Procedure Mr MR CHAIRPERSON: What is your procedure?
MR HIKUAMA: Procedure ya me Mr Chairperson, ke batla o ntlhalosetsa sengwe.

Ke utlwile o bua gore fa ke kopa procedure gore ke bue, ke go go tlhokela botho.

A mme ga ke a tshwanela go kopa procedure?

MR CHAIRPERSON: A ruling has long been made on that matter Honourable Hikuama, please give us a chance.

Honourable Moagi.

MR HIKUAMA: What was the ruling?

MR MOAGI: Bona, o tlaa go bolelela ka lunch tlhe monna, ntle re tshwaele, please.
MR HIKUAMA: I am just... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Hikuama, a ko re nne re fetsa Palamente.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Bagaetsho, just switch off Honourable Hikuama.

Switch him off.

Honourable Moagi, please continue.

MR MOAGI: Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

Ke lebogele motsotso o o mphileng, e bile ke tlhamalale fela ka go ema nokeng kopo ya ga Tona Letsholathebe.

Ke itumela thata, ka gore nngwe ya konokono ya tse a neng a bua ka tsone, ke building human capital.
Ke dumela gore lephata le la gagwe le tota le, le tsamaela kwa pele thata fa re lebile gore re baakanyetse batho ba ka nako tsotlhe ba tlaabong ba ntse ba le teng go kaela Fourth Industrial Revolution (4IR) kana knowledge economy e re tsenang mo go yone.
Ke bua jaana e bile ke rata go mo rotloetsa thata gore, nngwe ya dilo tsa ntlha tse a tshwanetseng go di dira, ke go ikamanya le ba semolao, ba patent law, ka gore dilo tse dintsi kwa go ene, go dupa mo a go dupang mo, research e a e dirang e batla gore e bo e somarelwa.

Go somarelwa ga yone go tlaa tlisa maduo le bogadi mo itsholelong ya rona.
11 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Fa ke leba kgaolo ya gaetsho ya kwa gaMalete, go na le dikitsokitso fa o lebile this indigenous knowledge system strategy e a buang ka yone.

Tse ke bonang gore di a nyelela, bogolo jang ka gore di ne di tshotswe ke bagolo ba rona ba maloba, jaanong fa ba tsamaya, dithuto tse di a nyelela.
Fa o lebelela go suga matlalo le go dira dikgole tse di dirisang kwa merakeng, ke skill and art e e boitshegang, e e teng kwa gaMalete e santse e dirwa.

Re dira sesepa ka mahura a kolobe, ke sesepa fela se se tlhwatlhwa se le sone re ka somarelang kitso e e ntseng jalo.

Ga gona ope yo mongwe, e bile e kile ya re ke santse ke le kwa PESC ka dira project e itebagantse le sesepa se se dirwang sa Setswana sa Kgalagadi Soap Industries.

Ke nngwe ya dikitso tse ke sa batleng gore di nyelele.
Go na le bojalwa jwa rona jwa Setswana, le jone go na le dikgeleke tse di bo dirang.

Ke knowledge e e tshwanetseng gore e tsenngwe mo go ba ba tlang kwa morago.

Re letsa ditlhaka, ditlhaka is a musical instrument e e nang le kitso ya yone e le yone e nyelelang kwa gaMalete.

Jaanong ke dilo dingwe which should be patented, di sirelediwe thata, bagarona ba itirele letseno la madi ka thulaganyo e e ntseng jalo.
Di ba humisa, ka gore re setse re bone tse di re nyeleletseng, mme jaanong fa re ka tlogela tse re tlaabo re latlhegetswe go le gontsi thata.

Go na le dilo tse dintsi tse ba bangwe gongwe ba ka tsayang gore ke motshameko kana ke eng.

Fa re bua ka dilo tse di tshwanang le thobega, that is an art and a skill se se tshwanetseng go somarelwa.

Diphologolo tsa rona, le bone batho tota ba kgona go bewa thobega.
I remember even ngaka nngwe ya kwa Molepolole ya Sekgoa, e ne e batla gore e rutwe mme ba gana ba Botswana gore nnyaa, ga e ka ke ya re o sa re rute jwa gago jwa Sekgoa, o bo o batla gore re go rute bongaka jwa rona jwa Setswana.

A dilo tse di somarele, re di somarele ka patenting, re se ka ra di somarela fela gore go rutwa ngwana go bo go tsena yo monnye mo go ene, ke tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Fa re lebile mo dikitsong, re bona mafatshe a mangwe a a senang le fa e le pula, mme jaanong through the use of your nano-technology ba setse ba kgonne go tseya salt crystals and thicken them ka this nano-technology, gore ba kgone go tlisa pula kwa e tlhokafalang teng thata.

Go na le dikaka tsa rona tse o tlaa fitlhelang nako tse dingwe go sena le fa e le pula, for a very long time.

Dilo tse re a di bona di a direga le kwa bo Dubai, jaaka batho ba rata go bua ka Dubai jaana.
Re e bone pula e nesiwa, e a na teng koo.

A dilo tse re di harness re di tseye, re di tlise di re berekele ka kwano.

Fa ke lebile le lephata la me ka marang a letsatsi, I have tasked you le bana ba gago gore a ko o batle solar panel e e tlaabong e itebagantse le marang a letsatsi a Botswana.
Re se ka ra nna re reka panel nngwe le nngwe fela e e tswang go ...(Inaudible)… o dire research e e ntseng jalo, e tle e re jaanong mo projects tse dintsinyana tse di tlang ka kwano tsa marang a letsatsi, re bo re kgona go dirisa panel which we developed ka kwano, e kgona go somarela letsatsi la rona la Botswana, e bile e tlaa tsaya lebakanyana le le rileng e sa nyelele kana ya senyega ka pela.
O buile thata rra, e bile e le thulaganyo e re e tshotseng mo manifesto wa rona wa Domkrag le mo the RESET and Transformation Agenda, ya digitalisation.

To digitalise ke gore dilo tse tsotlhe tse di kgone go nna bofefo, information fa o e batla o e bone ka bonako, o bo o kgona gore o ise ditirelo kwa bathong.

Jaaka batlotlegi bangwe ba ntse ba bua ka the village economy, go botlhokwa thata.
Gompieno fa o tsaya example, the Queue Management System e e dirwang ke ba kompone ya QFlo, re bona e dirile thulaganyo e e botoka thata kwa Department of Road Transport and Safety (DRTS) e a dirisiwa.

Jaanong re ka e tsenya kwa dipatela kwa re yang dingakeng teng, dibanka, diposo, gongwe le gongwe kwa re a bong re ikaeletse go bona ditirelo teng.
Ke itumela thata gape ka gore mosong ono go na le Conference Innovation kwa Gaborone International Convention Centre (GICC) ya Iconnect, e rotloediwa ke ba InnoLead Consulting le SmartBotswana jalo.

Ke projects tse re supang gore motse mongwe le mongwe o tlaabo o neetswe maranyane gore ditirelo di atumele kwa bathong.

Se se itemogelwang fa go ntse go buisanngwa ke gore, re bonya thata gore dilo tse di diragadiwe.
Bonya bo bo tsalwa ke gore, o tlaa fitlhela go rutuntshiwa boeteledipele mme batho ba bangwe ba ba fa gare ba bantsi ba ba tshwarang tiro ka diatla, re ba tlogela kwa morago.

E bo re nna re ipotsa gore why is it not implemented ka bonako?

Re fitlhela e le gore batshwarateu ke bone ba ba re tlogetseng kwa morago.

A e re fa o ntse o tsutlaganya budget ya gago, o di tsenye mo teng.

Technology ke yone e tlaa re isang kwa pele, that is the new norm.
Gompieno ke ne ke bala ka Motswana, Dr Ketlhaotswe yo o dirisang botlhale jo bo tonatota jwa gagwe mme a santse a le mmotlana thata.

O lwelwa ke mafatshe.

Go lwelwa ke mafatshe ga go na molato, fa re sa kgona go mo tsaya, a a ye go dirisa kitso.

A bo a boa gape a tla go tlhabololola Batswana ka kwano.
Batswana ba rona re tshwanetse re itse gore as an export-led economy, re 12 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) batla gore dikitso tsa rona re di tseye re ye go tlhabolola kwa re ka tlhabololang teng.

Mme gape le rona re bulege.


Ke tlaa kopa gore tota funds tsa gago di nne teng tse e kareng Batswana, bommantswitswidi ba ba itseng dikitso jaaka Dr Ketlhaotswe e le motho wa Information and Communication Technology (ICT) jalo le artificial intelligence, o mo tseye mo mafatsheng a a batlang go mo tsaya.

A bo a tla go go thusa a tlhabolola dilo tse dintsi mo Botswana.

Re a mo lebogisa.

Ba bangwe ba teng rra, ba bulele dikgoro gore ba tlise dikitso tsa bone kwa go wena.
Re tle re tlhabolole lefatshe la rona.

Ke dilo tse di botlhokwa thata.

Curriculum ya gago rra, ke kopa o e lebelele thata.

A re fokotse mosuke wa gore sengwe le sengwe re bo re ya go se ithuta.

Gongwe o batla go nna expert ya tsa ICT, o bo o simolola e le gore go tladitswe dilo tse dingwe gape mo teng tse dintsintsi.

Re a itse gore dilo tse di a tsamaelana, o kgona gore e re o dirile Geography, a bo kamoso o le accountant kana Financial Manager.
Fa e le gore motho wants to concentrate mo go se a batlang, a se ka a patikwa ka tse dingwe gotwe go boledisa gore a bone rating e e rileng.

Golo moo go kgona go dia gore re bo re na le bommantswitswidi ba ba re thusang.

We need to have these specific algorisms tse di a bo di… …Silence… MR MOAGI: Kgang e ya gago ya Online Fund Administration System, rra, re nna le lela gore madi a a tlhaela, go rile jang.
O fitlhela fa gongwe a tlhaetswa ke gore, go na le dituelo tse re di dirang mme di sa ye kwa di tshwanetseng go ya teng.

O fitlhela go na le ghost students and ghost institutions.

Dilo tse di ntseng jaana fa e le gore re santse re dirisa dipampiri to administer dilo tsa rona, ga go ka ke ga nna sentle.

If it is online, re ka kgona to search ka bonako re bone gore motho yo o duetswe.

Mo gongwe a re Lefhoko Moagi, Moagi Lefhoko mme e le motho a le mongwefela, a bo a pitika maina a gagwe jaana.
Fa o bona ka kwa, o bona gore maina a a tsamaelana kante ga a tsamaelane.

Dilo tse di bo di tima ngwana yo mongwe kwa Mogobane le Otse sponsorship gore a ye go dira dithuto tsa gagwe.

Student accommodation; rra, e tsile nako ya gore o e tlogelele private investors.

O ntshe allowance fela, private investors di bo di aga gore o tle o se ka wa nna le kgwetlho ya maintenance wa buildings.

Ba tlaa aga mme maroko a tlaabo a le teng for bana ba rona.

Ke go eme nokeng ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.


Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: We are to call upon the Honourable Minister to reply to the debate at 1220 hours.

We only have three minutes left, I do not know whether Honourable Modukanele, are you going to barge for those three minutes left because you are the next on the line.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MODUKANELE): Ke a leboga Modulasetilo.
Mma ke bue mafoko a le mabedi fela Mr Chairperson, with your permission ke re Minister, ke batla go go lebogela selo se le sengwefela.

E rile ka 2019 fa 12th Parliament e simologa, ke dumela gore kakgelo ya me ya ntlha ke ne ka bua ka research gore e botlhokwa mo go kae.

Ke batla go go leboga rra gore letsatsi leno re bua jaana o sa tswa go tla ka a Research Fund.

Seo re tshwanetse re se go lebogele.

Tumelo ya me ke gore, fa re bua ka a knowledge-based economy, the foundation ya yone ke research.
We should discover things.

We should discover knowledge.

Ga go na lefatshe lepe across the globe le le kileng la tswelela la tlhabologa to realise their aspiration ba sa dira research and development.

Ke one fela mo nakong e khutshwanyane e o e mphileng gore ke go rotloetse.

Ke batla go bua gape jaana gore our universities should be research inclined.

Universities tsotlhe across the globe; fa o utlwa gotwe Harvard kana Yale, we mention them because of research tse ba di dirang and publishing them.
They discover and innovate.

I want to challenge you Honourable Minister, through you Mr Chairperson gore our universities should do more.

I am encouraged fa ke lebelela pego ya gago gore go a supafala gore kwa BIUST re solofela gore very soon they will be launching a satellite.

Ke maiteko a mantle.

Re tshwanetse to commend them.

Ke na le tsholofelo gore e tlaare mo dingwageng tse di latelang fa economy e nna botoka, Motlotlegi Serame a go reetse.
Palamente e nne e go okeletse, o fiwe dithebe tse di ka isang ditoro tsa gago le tsa lefatshe le kwa pele.

Ke dumela gore ka one mafokonyana ao mo three minutes yo o mo mphileng Mr Chairperson, ke ema nokeng ka tsoo pedi, ka pelo yotlhe.

Dr Letsholathebe re mo eleletsa gore a kgone.

E ya research e Minister, le ngwaga e e tlang o boe gape o kope Palamente e go oleketse madi so that more and more research is carried out in this country so that we truly become a knowledge- based economy.
Mr Chairperson, ka one ao, ke a go leboga.

13 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister Letsholathebe, please reply to the debate.

MINISTER OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (DR LETSHOLATHEBE): Ke a go leboga Modulasetilo.
Ke go lebogela tshono e o e mphileng gore ke reetse bakaulengwe le nna ba nkgothatsa ba nkema nokeng mo kopong ya madi ya ministry wa rona.

Modulasetilo, I am so humbled because botlhe ba na le tumelo mo go rona gore re ka kgona go dira.

Thomokgolo ya rona re le Ministry of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology ke ya gore, re thuse lefatshe le go tswa mo go ikaegeng mo ditswammung gore re ikaege mo dikitsong.

Botlhe ba ba akgetseng, ke lemoga ba tlhaloganya botlhokwa jwa ministry wa rona.
Seo ke wa ka lengole ke ba leboga gore mme se re rotloeditse.

Se rotloeditse nna le botlhe ba ke berekang le bone go simolola ka Mothusa Minister mo ministry wa rona Honourable Lesaso.

Ke simolole pele ka bofefo ke leboge the Honourable Minister yo o neng a re thusa mo ministry mme a tlhatlosiwa maemo.

He did a great job.

Ke leboge batho ba Kasane ba ba neng ba re neela senatla se se re thusitseng.

Le kwa a leng teng, ke tsaya gore o ya go dira tiro e ntle fela thata.
Ke bo ke leboge yo mošha mo go rona yo contribution ya gagwe e setseng e utlwala, gore bagaetsho ke le lebogela seo.

Fa ke tlhamalela mo dikakgelong tse di builweng ke Mapalamente, ke ne ke itseela dintlha ka bonna ka ke lemogile gore ke dintlha tse di botlhokwa fela thata.

Ke simolola ka wena Dr Tshabang ke re indeed, kgang ya the Research Ethics and Integrity Committee, ke selo se re lemogileng gore fa re sa se dira mme re bo re re re tsenelela mo dilong tse tsa research, ga gona kwa re ka yang teng.
Ke go leboge Doc gore o bo o kgonne go lemoga botlhokwa jwa se.

Ke sengwe se e leng gore we will make sure of that e akaretsa mongwe le mongwe jaaka o rotloeditse le gore guidelines tsa teng di nne mo pontsheng gore mongwe le mongwe a itse gore tota re batla go ya ntlha efe.

Kgang e o e buileng Honourable Tshabang ya online teaching, o bete se molangwana gore a mme re ready go ka e dira, a ditlamelo di teng le gore a bana ba tlaa thusiwa sentle?
Ke batla ke go tsibogele ka bonako gore nnyaa, re eme malala-a-laotswe.

Through BQA, re ya go dira gore bana ba se ka ba jewa ntsoma.

BQA ke yone re yang go e dirisa go lebelela the …(inaudible)… interest gore baithuti ba rona ga ba ye go šhankudisiwa fela ba isiwa kwa YouTube gotwe lebelela course kana topic ke e, e le gone jaaka o tlaabo o rutilwe.

Re tla ka the E-learning Policy.

Ke yone e yang go supa tsela gore mongwe le mongwe yo o yang go dirisa online teaching go tsamaya jang.
Ke sengwe se e leng gore it is a development and we are at the edge of the cliff.

Re ne re palelwa ke go tlola mme COVID e ne ya re push a little bit.

Ke sengwe se re boneng se re tokafaletsa botshelo fela thata.

Kgang nngwe e o buileng ka yone ke the laptops gore a mme re ikemiseditse go ka thusa baithuti ka dilo tsa go nna jalo?

Honourable Doc, ke sengwe se re se lebileng mme re santse re tlaa buisana le baithuti.
Kana re neela baithuti madi a dibuka gangwe le gape gore ba kgone go ithekela dibuka tsa bone.

Things are moving and changing very fast.

Gongwe re lebisane le bone gore ba simolole ba bone gore a ba ka se ka ba dirisa more e-books tse ba di tsayang online gore ba kgone go somarela madi ka tsone di le tlhwatlhwa e e kwa tlase gona le tseo.

Institutions tsa rona di simolotse; bo BAC ba neela bana laptops at the beginning of their courses.

Ke sengwe se re tlaa tswelelang re ntse re se tokafatsa.
Technical colleges lack of resources; indeed, I agree with you sir gore our technical colleges need to transform.

They need a paradigm shift.

Fa e le gore re batla go ikaega ka dikitso, technical colleges ke tsone enablers tse di ka kgonang go re ntsha fa re leng teng go ya kwa pele.

Innovators le researchers di ka nna teng, mme at the end fa di sena go tla ka prototypes tseo, ba tlhoka technical cadre gore ba kgone e nne bone ba ba dirang dibuka tseo.
E ka tswa e le tsa drones, e le eng, we need the technical cadre.

Ka jalo, our technical colleges need to do a paradigm shift.

Re bone gore re tokafatsa le recourses tsa bone gore ba dire dilo tse di tokafetseng.

Le dikgang tsa bo electric car, re tle re …(inaudible)… curriculum e re ba e rutang ba kgone go dira dikoloi ba …(inaudible)… ka dikoloi tsa gompieno.

Ke sengwe se re lebogang gore o se lemogile Mopalamente yo ke go tlotlang thata.
Private Education and Training Providers (ETPs), non- citizens, indeed o buile o rile ipoditse dipotso wa bo wa ikaraba tsala ya me.

Tota re tlaa tswelela re buisanya le ba ba maleba.

Kana tota tiro e kgolo ya rona ke go lebelela gore a mme motho o a qualify.

Then fa a qualify, we have to rely mo go ba Ministry of Immigration gore le bone ba bone gore a mme o ka nna teng mo Botswana.

Re tlaa nna re lebelela kgang ya go nna jalo.

Budget ya public ETPs is not enough, I agree with you.
If we really want to transform this country into a knowledge-based economy, we need more money in 14 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) those public ETPs.

But the situation e re leng mo go yone go batla gore mongwe le mongwe a bofe lebante la gagwe.
Ke tsaya gore go yeng kwa pele, Tona wa tsa Madi o reeditse le ene o tlaa kgona go tokafatsa budget ya rona kwa Vocational Training Colleges (VTCs).

The return of the investment on bo Botswana Digital and Innovation Hub (BDIH) le bo eng; I am taken aback Member of Parliament Tshabang fa wena tota tsala ya me ke tsaya gore ke beile mo go wena gore o tlaa nthusa dikgang tse tsa maranyane e bo e nne wena o lelang go gaisa gore ga o itse gore BDIH e dira eng.

Seo se supile gore ga ke dire tiro.


Ke tlaa ikitaya ka thupana gore ke bone gore BDIH ba tswa from the backyard gore mo o fitlhelang scientists di iphitlhile kwa tlase ga ditafole, kgang ya teng e fetile.

We need to go out and meet and deal with people.

Jaaka o bona le rona re le batho ba maranyane, nna le wena le ba bangwe, re tseneletse mo sepolotiking, go supa gore gone are the days where scientists would just put on their laptops and hide behind those computers.
Skill gap in the market, Human Resource Development Council (HRDC) e tshwanetse go tsholetsa dinao, ke dumalana le wena.

Ke se re tlaa se dirang.

Fa ke taboga ke tsena mo go Honourable Regoeng, ke go lebogele mafoko a gago a mantle.

Gape ke go lebogele gore o one of those people ba e leng gore o re emisitse ka dinao mo lephateng la rona ka dipotso tse o di tlisang ka kwano.

Re tlaa tswelela re ntse re go araba gore re ye kwa pele.
Le wena o buile ka HRDC gore re e kaele gore e ntshe baithuti ba ba maleba.

Ke sengwe se e leng gore Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang, re tlaa dira jalo.

Research and development; countries develop ka research, ke se se boammaaruri fela thata.

Fa o ka lebelela, go na le gore mafatshe a le mantsi a a neng a tlhabologa a le mo middle high income, mme gore ba tswelele ba ye kwa high income, go ne go kgonagala fela ka research and development.
Ka jalo, le rona re tsere tshwetso ya gore re dirise research and development go yeng kwa pele.

Ke na le tshepho ya gore Puso e ke e tshephang e go yeng kwa pele ba tlaa tsenya madi a mantsi mo research and development.

It is too expensive to fund research.

It is like koloi fa o e kgarametsa, la ntlha go e push go nna dingalo but fa e setse e dikologa go nna motlhofo.

Initial funding ya research e ka tswa o kare e bokete mme fela go yeng kwa pele e ka kgona go re thusa.
Ke ne ke bua maloba fa ke contribute gore we need to research on our policies.

Re se ka ra ntsha policies fela tse e leng gore re tsaya gore ke tsa maikutlo, di tlaa thusa batho ba Tati East mme fela re sa lebege re dira research ka ga tsone.

We need to do research in all sectors.

Ke sone se e leng gore se tlaa kgona gore gongwe go dira gore gongwe bo Honourable Keorapetse ba tswe mo Palamenteng ba ye go dira research tseo ka ke itse o le motho yo o ratang research fela thata.
National Research Fund is a welcome development.

Ke yone kgang e re buang ka ga yone Modulasetilo.

We need to fund research.

Ke ka jalo ke itumetseng fela thata gore Khuduthamaga ya ga Tautona le Tautona ba ntetleletse finally gore re kgone go nna le the Research Fund …(inaudible)… mme re sa kgone go dira gore re rulaganye gore e dirwe jang jaaka Honourable Keorapetse a ne a gakolola le ka dikgang tsa gore re nne le a council e e tlaabong e direct gore madi ao a kopiwa jang, kwa go bo mang.
Ke sone se e leng gore tota le nna ke a se lebogela.

Re ya go dira fela jalo.

Ke kgakololo e ke e tsereng from the researchers.

Gangwe le gape ke kopana le bone ka maranyane.

I remember gore last time I met over the 500 researchers and talked to them, and got guidance from them.

I know them better.

I know they like hiding behind the doors, jaanong ke a ba latela re buisana.
Ke kgakololo e nngwe e e leng gore I …(inaudible)… Kgang e o e buileng e nngwe ke ya gore go nne le tomagano gareng ga high learning le research centres.

Kgang e e botlhokwa.

O fitlhela e le gore equipment e e dirisiwang mo research gantsi e a tura.

O fitlhela ba bangwe mme ba e ikgagapelela e le gore BITRI e gata ka equipment ya P10 million, mme e dirisiwa gangwefela mo ngwageng ke batho ba ba e dirisang.

Ba bangwe ba university gongwe motho a bo a tsaya gore equipment ke ya gagwe and personalise it.
It is something which I told them, we cannot allow that.

Ke madi a makgetho a Batswana a a tshwanetseng go dirisiwa go thusa ba botlhe.

Bus e kgone go emelela fela kwa BIUST e tlisa bana ba tla go dirisa equipment mo BITRI.

This is the Government’s property e tshwanetse gore e bo e dirisiwa ka kelotlhoko.

Kgang ya gore products …(inaudible)… research, indeed re nna re ba rotloetsa ba ba dirang research gore go dirwe research e e leng gore yes, it is cutting edge.
Publications, o se ka wa nna o ipoka fela o re ke na le publications tse 32.

They should make sure that researches tse di ntseng jalo, o bone gore di thusa batho ba kwa Patayamatebele ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Ka gore bone fa e le gore madi a tlaa tsewa gotwe a isiwa kwa research mme ba sa bone mosola wa one, gongwe ke selo se ba ka se kang 15 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) ba se itumelela.
Researches di tshwanetse go nna teng tse di thusang batho, di dire dikonotere that are cheap, related and very relevant for our country, re kgone go bona ditsela tse dintsi di dirwa, ka gore ba ne ba dirisa material wa rona.

Le ba ba senang ditsela ba kgone gore ba di bone.

Ke sengwe se e leng gore o buile dilo di le dintsintsi tse di botlhokwa.

O itse gore fela fa ke ka se ka ka bua ka Institute of Health Sciences (IHS) ke tlaabo ke sa go araba Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang.
IHS tota re tshwanetse go bona gore we utilise them jang.

…(inaudible)…gore re bo re nna le buildings tse di kana.

Kana fa o ka ya kwa mafatsheng a mangwe Honourable Hikuama o ka fitlhela e le gore IHS tsa rona they are even better than university tsa bone tse o fitlhelang ba dirile very flashy websites le eng, e le buildings fela tse dinyenyane tse di kwa godimo ga dishopo.

Tsa rona IHSs le Colleges of Education indeed they require that shift, we are going to transform them.
We are going to look at it and see gore re ka ruta dilo tse di ntseng jang.

Le tsone bo Molepolole College of Education (MCE) le bo eng, we are working on issues of rationalisation.

Ke a itse gore re buile ka yone ka lebaka, mme ke a go tshepisa gore sengwe re tlaa se bua.

E tlaa re next time fa ke le fa ke tlaabo ke bua sengwe.

Fa e le gore ke ineetse gore ga re ka ke ra dira jalo, ke tlaa bua.

Kgang tsa gore fela re nne re dira college tse di farologaneng kwa le kwa ga go re thuse ka sepe.
Tsone IHS they will be next, re lebagane le gore IHS di ka berekisanya jang le Department tsa University of Botswana tsa Bongaka.

Ke sengwe se re yang go se dira gore re kgone go bona gore we get value for money.

I really appreciate.

Honourable His Honour the Vice President, it is an honour indeed gore re fitlhele support go tswa kwa go wena Mothusa Tautona.

Re lebogela gape gore, e bile o buile gore madi a is not enough.
Ke sengwe se e leng gore I clapped as you said that, because like I said research is important and fa re batla go ya kwa go Knowledge Based Economy (KBE) re tshwanetse gore initially re tsenye madi a mantsintsi, go yeng kwa pele re tlaa kgona gore re bone se re se batlang.

It is an ambitious dream gore re tswe mo go ikaegeng mo ditswammung, re ikaege mo dikitsong.

It is an ambitious dream.


With the human resource e re nang le yone Mothusa Tautona, we have done so well in this country, e e leng gore we have trained a lot of people, our human resource is all over.

Batho ba rutegile, o fitlhela e le gore in these schools tsa bo Materspei, Masunga Senior, Shoshong, there are so many brilliant guys in chemistry, physics and other subjects, ba e leng gore they are sitting there, they went to teaching because they had no options.
Fa re ka ba neela madi re ka kgona gore re ba thuse ba kgone go re thusa go dira yone Knowledge Based Economy.

Ke go leboge Mothusa Tautona ka gore, tota re a go go thusa, ke itse gore o motho yo o nang le kgatlhego thata ka kgang tsa rural development.

Re ya go dirisa dikitso e seng tsa classroom fela, dikitso tse di tshwanang le tsa the indigenous knowledge.
Re ya go dirisa the Rural Training Centres, re buisana le Batswana, gore re kgone go dirisa dikitso tsa bone tse ba tshidileng ka tsone go tswa goo lowe, gore re kgone go dira.

Re dira jalo jaaka o gakolotse Mothusa Tautona ka kgang tsa Information Technology (IT).

Re dira jalo re bapisitse le gore ga re ye go tsaya dikitso tsa bone re ya go tshela ka tsone, kana re ya go dira madi ka tsone re ba tlogela kwa morago.

O buile ke pick up students.


Ke nngwe e ke ratang go bua ka kgang ya gore batsadi ba thuse bana.

I want us to review this again, Parliament e ne ya tsaya tshwetso ya gore re se ka ra pick up the students, fa motsadi a dueletse ngwana gongwe le gongwe kwa a mo dueletseng teng a tswelele go ya go fetsa.

We need to review that, ke dumalana le wena gore fa motsadi a thusitse ngwana go mo duelela the first two years, why can we not help from 3rd year to 4th year.

Ke sengwe se e leng gore ke go se lebogele.


…(Inaudible)… electric car, yes I do not shy away to talk about this project.

Ke kgang e e leng gore yes ke ya kwa Trade, but we are not going to fold our arms as researchers and innovators, re tlogela batho ba tla ba dira projects kana ba dira koloi ya motlakase mono, e re letsatsi le ba ngadileng ba sa dumalane le ditsamaiso tsa rona kana eng, ba bo ba thotha ba tsamaya le dikitso tsa bone ba tsamaya ka tsone.
Jaanong re le ba Tertiary Education re ya go tsena mo kgannyeng tse pedi Mothusa Tautona le Palamente e e tlotlegang.

Re ya go tsena mo kgannyeng ya capacity building.

We are going to make sure gore our tertiary educations, the vocational education tsa rona di ruta bana go ka ikemela ka dikgang tsone tse, o ka dira koloi ya motlakase, o ka baakanya koloi ya motlakase, le tsone e-boat, ga re a ema ka koloi fela.

Re na le bana ba re setseng re emetse to train them.
Maloba e bile ke ne ke bolelelwa fa e le gore ba setse ba simolotse ba re ba rutuntshitsheng go ka bopa sekepe go tswa kwa teng fela se se ka dirisiwang mo makgobokgobong a rona se sa tsosetse ope modumo.

Se tsamaya se didimetse ka motlakase.


Ke re ke sengwe se e leng gore we will talk about it and work with Trade 16 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) go fitlhelela re ya go tsena teng.

It may take two years or 20 years but we will get there, that one I must assure you.

Right entrepreneurs; indeed re tlhokana le bone batho ba ba itseng dikitso tsa go nna jalo.
Honourable Hikuama, indeed Human Resource (HR) is a necessity.

Ke sengwe se e leng gore the human resource is very important.

Re bangwe ba mafatshe a a few in the whole world, I am not talking about Africa, ba re duelelang ngwana from kindergarten, early childhood some up to Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) level.

Ke sengwe se tota re se tsayang tsia.

We can do better.
We can do better.

That is why I agree with you gore, a re lebalebeng kgang e gore education ya rona jaaka o bua gore it should be valued to number one, re e lebalebe, re bone gore a mme is it the right education.

That is why I always support Basic Education when they review their curricula, gore e kgone go tsamaya le nako tsa gompieno.

Ke dingwe tse e leng gore we are going to do that, not only provide the numbers, not only quantity but quality education.
DTEF, indeed re tlaa tswelela re ntse re thusa bana ka sponsorship fa madi a ntse a letla.

Indeed we should be able also to encourage batsadi gore ba thuse Goromente mo go dueleleng bana.

Gantsi dipatlisiso di supile gore fa motsadi a tsaya karalo ya ngwana ka go mo duelela o na le gore a ka thusa ngwana gore a tswelele mo dikitsong tsa gagwe.

Innovation Hub like Dr Tshabang, o a re it is not visible.

Ke tsaya gore it is failure on my part.


Go raya gore ga ke dire tiro ya me, fa e le gore ga e bonale, ke se e leng gore I take the blame and I will work on that.

BQA ke nngwe e e leng gore yes, it is supposed to be helping us, but it is hindering us.

Indeed, I must accept that we have challenges there.

Ke dingwe tse e leng gore we are working around the clock, the board, we are working around the clock with all stakeholders gore re kgone go baakanya seo.
Kgang nngwe e re berekang mo go yone gompieno ke gone go lebelela Act ya yone.

Act ya BQA re a e sekaseka, not ya yone fela, but le ba re berekisanang le bone, professional bodies.

Kana professional bodies ke bone ba ba re thusang gore sealogane se re se ntshang ba ba nang le tshepo gore ke sealogane se se siameng se se ka kgonang to meet the challenge ya lefatshe.

Ke ka jalo ke re, gongwe we are going to improve.

I really apologise for any inconvenience, but we are working around the clock on that.
indigenous Honourable Molale, knowledge, dikitso, fa gotweng eng, o nna o bua ka ga gone and I have learnt a lot from your Honourable indeed fa gotwe Molale.

O gakolotse gangwe le gape o santse o le kwa lephateng le o neng o le kwa go lone la Local Government gore you are ready to support us all the way from research prototype to the end.

Not only that, you have instructed by then your schools gore ba reke products tsa rona tse di dirilweng mo Botswana.

Ke sengwe se re se lebogelang.


I must encourage you that we will do that and we are going to continue to do that.

Ke re ke sengwe se e leng gore if we are not supported by Batswana ga go na kwa re ka yang teng.

Honourable Rakgare, it will be remiss of me go sa simolola ka go go leboga.

Sometimes to get kind words from a man like you humbles me.

I really thank you for that.

It is because of my team also, ke ka jalo o bona ke ne ke simolola ke leboga ba ke berekang le bone.
I succeed because of the team which I have.

We fight, we go on, because re a itse gore Puso e ikaegile mo go rona.

Ga e sa tlhole e ikaega mo bo Orapa, e ikaegile mo go rona.

Kgang ya Department of Vocational Education and Training (DVET) o buile ka ga yone gore, indeed it is an enabler innovation, ke kgang e e ka kgonang go re thusa.

National Research o buile ka ga yone.

Kgang e ke batlang gore re lebagane le yone ka bonako ke ya the High Performance Centre le Arts Council.
Please utilise that university Honourable Rakgare, it is the University ya Batswana (UB).

Feel free to go and engage them to see how the High Performance Centre can help Batswana.

Ke sengwe se e leng gore any time I will be willing to accompany you there, re ye go bona gore re ka oka jang, le yone tourism.

Re ka kgona go bona batabogi ba ba tlhwatlhwa deciding gore nna ke ya go itlhokoletsa Olympics ke le kwa Botswana.

My brother, I have all the time to support you.


You are doing a good job kwa sports, we can help you doing much better.

Allowance; eo ke kgang ya me le wena, re dumalana le wena.

Batsadi need to review kgang ya gore tota Goromente a tseye tshwetso a duelele bana tuition, a ba duele allowance.

Le bone bahumi ba e leng gore they own half of Gaborone, dikoloi di tletse mo ditseleng tse because people have a lot of money but they do not want to play a role.
Ke godile e le gore kwa ke tswang teng kwa Bokalaka, monnamogolo o ne a kgona go omanela gore o ne a re fa a ile kwa moepong, a fitlhela ngwana wa gagwe a tsentswe mo bursary.

What is happening to Batswana nowadays?

Responsibility ya rona e ile kae?


Pride ya rona gore ga ke na ngwana yo o tsenngwang ka bursary, e ile kwa kae mo e leng gore mongwe le 17 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) mongwe o kgarameletsa bana kwa bursary?

Ke go lebogele gore ga o nke o tshaba go tshwara the bull by the horn.

Thank you very much honourable and God bless you.


gore a mme fa di ne di farologana, se se santseng se ba farologanya, a mme se teng.

Ke dumalana le wena and we are going to do that.

We have to review their salaries and allowances.

indeed fa o re Honourable Brooks, indigenous knowledge e beilwe kwa go wena, and ke tsaya gore ke tlaa kaela ba BDIH, ba re ba romileng gore ba ye go simolola kwa go wena, ba lebagane le dikgang tse tsa dikitso gore Batswana ba kgone go itshetsa ka dikitso tsa bone.
Jaaka ke sa tswa go bua, gantsi batho fa gotwe knowledge-based economy, ba akanya Doctor of Philosophies (PhDs) tsa bo Dr Tshabang tsa bo chemistry fela.

No, dikitso e ka tswa e le gore jaaka o ne o bua ka dikgang tsa go dira kofi e e tswang mo Motoping, people can live with that.

Ba ka dirisa dikitso tsa bone ba dira Intellectual Property (IP) go sena yo o ba utswelang.

Ke sengwe se re se lebogang.


I just want to appreciate, including elucidation ya ga Honourable Motsamai ya dikitso tsa Baherero le eng, we are not going to leave anybody behind as Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) di bua.

Re ya go akaretsa mongwe le mongwe, dikitso tse tsotlhe, including le tsone ditladi tota fa e le gore tladi e a dirwa kwa Molepolole ke boammaaruri, we are going to make sure that we also include that.
Gongwe e bile e tlaa nna sone sebetso sa rona sa kganyaolo, re kgone to protect ourselves going forward; re ka dira tladi ra e romela kwa ba e leng gore ba a re kgokgontsha.

Honourable Keorapetse, indeed you have said a mouthful; Botswana Research Council, ke buile ka yone fa ke le ka kwa.

It is something, we may not necessary call it that but it is very important fa o tswa ka fund, o nne le ba ba kaelang gore fund eo e dirisiwa jang le gore research e ka re tokafaletsa jang.
O buile ka sports club academy; Honourable Rakgare o a itse.

O tlhola a nthusa ka baithuti ba re ba bitsang re re ba elite sponsorship.

Ba ba dirang sentle mo sports, we sponsor them but indeed like you said, we will do better on that.

Kgang ya Top Achievers, I totally agree with you.

We are reviewing the Top Achievers and I will also contact you gore o tsenye contribution ya gago.
Salaries tsa kwa BUAN, BIUST and UB, I remember I said last time ke re we are not going to look at them but I think this has been said several times and we need to relook at that and I am going to make sure that we do that.

Re lebelele dituelo tsa bo BUAN, UB le BIUST Appointments kwa UB, I have noted that and I will follow it up honourable.
Collaboration between Foreign Affairs; yes, we are already sponsoring students tse re di fiwang ke bone ba Foreign Affairs but as you encourage, we will do more on that.

Kgang ya gore re batlele Batswana ditiro ke e ke e ratang thata mme e bile re ntse re e tsweledisa gore re kgone go ba neela allowance ya six months, ba tsamae fa e le gore ba bone tiro ba ye go bereka kwa ntle.

Ke gone jaaka re tlaabo re tshela ka dikitso tsa rona.
Honourable Moagi, Mopalamente wa kwa Ramotswa; indeed the human capital e botlhokwa, le kgang e e leng gore re dire patents; indigenous knowledge.

O buile ka projects tsa sesepa, matlalo le dithaka.

I know that I stayed in Balete area, ditlhaka tsa teng jaaka batho ba kgona go dira saxophones.

Why can we not have those nice ditlhaka, batho ba tshela ka tsone by designing them ba di rekisetsa kwa mafatsheng a sele?

The music produced by ditlhaka is very good.

I know they are produced by a few.


Also for the support ka kgang ya the solar panel gore o re rotloetse gore o kgone go re neela madi gore ba dire solar panels tse di ideal for Botswana.

Digitalisation; indeed it is the way to go.

If we want to go to the 4IR, password ke digitalisation.

Online system ya kwa DTEF, we are going to do it, no matter how hard and difficult it will be.

E tla a fokotsa, ke yone e gotweng madi a isitswe kwa dipokong jaaka o bua, kana gotwe bana ga ba a duelwa ka nako.
Mapalamente a mantsintsi a ntse a bua ka gore bana ga ba duelwe ka nako.

Accommodation to the private, Public Private Partnership (PPP); my team is very slow fa go tla kwa PPP.

Ba na le mafatshe a mantsintsi.

Ke gore fa o ka tsamaya mo UB, o ka ipotsa gore ke eng ba sa kopane le bahumi ba ba tletseng mo Botswana, ba kgona gore ba age matlo kana hostels gore bana ba nne moo gongwe gotwe 20 or 50 years, then the university can take up its premises.
Ke taboge ke fete ka Honourable Modukanele… MR CHAIRPERSON: You have one minute, at 12:49, you have to sum up.

18 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2700 - MINISTRY OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGYCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) DR LETSHOLATHEBE: Okay.

Thank you very much.

Kwa bofelong ke re believe in us as you are saying Honourable Members, we are going to deliver a knowledge-based economy.
Fela ke gore re kopele madi go yeng kwa pele gore re kgone go dira tiro e. At this point Mr Chairperson, I conclude my presentation and therefore move that the sum of Three Billion, Two Hundred and Forty-Eight Million, Seven Hundred and Ninety-One Thousand, Three Hundred and Thirty Pula (P3,248,791,330) for the Recurrent Budget be approved and stands part of the Schedule of the 2022/2023 Appropriation (Bill No.
2 of 2022) for the Organisation 2700, and the sum of Two Hundred and Seven Million, Three Hundred and Thirty-Six Thousand and Eight Hundred Pula (P207,336,800) for Organisation 2700 in the Development Fund Estimates be approved and form part of those estimates.

I really appreciate, thank you so much Mr Chairperson.

Thank you malome.
Thank you malome.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, just read the first figure again; it is P3 billion… DR LETSHOLATHEBE: The first figure P3,258,791… is MR CHAIRPERSON: Correct; o tshwere gotlhe setlogolo.

Question put and agreed to.


ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATE MR CHAIRPERSON: Please, note that two hours has been allocated to this Organisation and I shall call upon the Honourable Minister to reply to the debate at five minutes past four this afternoon, and the question will be put at 16:35 hours today.

Honourable Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration, please present your budget.
ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, it is with great pleasure that I present the 2022/2023 Budget Estimates for “Organisation 2800 - Ethics and Integrity Directorate (EID)” to this Honourable House.

The total Recurrent Budget Estimate for the 2022/2023 financial year amounts to Nineteen Million, One Hundred and Fourteen Thousand, One Hundred and Seventy Pula (P19,114, 170.00).
There are no Development Budget Estimates for EID since it is a newly formed Government Department, and its establishment is still in progress.

OVERVIEW OF THE PERFORMANCE DURING 2021/2022 Mr Chairperson, allow me to start my presentation by updating this Honourable House on the achievements and challenges faced by the EID during the 2021/2022 financial year.

Mr Chairperson, the EID commenced its operations on the 6th January 2020.
It has grown from an establishment of two posts, when it commenced its operations and now has a total of 29 posts, with 19 officers already in post, and the recruitment of other officers ongoing.

Mr Chairperson, as more staff is recruited, EID will be able to improve its turnaround time between receiving declarations and reflecting them in the Register of Declarations, where the declarations comply with the requirements of the Declaration of Assets and Liabilities Act.
Mr Chairperson, EID received the first declaration on the 3rd February 2020, and as at 1st March 2022, it had received 2889 declarations.

A total of 1099 declarations qualified for inclusion in the Register of Declarations when it is established, and 1146 declarations have been returned to the respective declarants for correct or full completion.
Due to staff quarantines and isolations pertaining to COVID-19 pandemic, as well as staff rotation in response to the pandemic, there was a delay in the assessment of declarations for full and correct completion.

The assessment of the remaining 644 declarations continues.

It is expected that the Register of Declarations will be established and be available for public inspection in the first quarter of the 2022/2023 financial year.
Mr Chairperson, the EID continues to engage declarants and other stakeholders in line with its mandate of promoting and reinforcing integrity and accountability in public office by ensuring compliance with the Declaration of Assets and Liabilities Act.

In this regard Mr Chairperson, the EID has conducted physical and virtual meetings with various institutions including some Town and District Councils, and Government Departments and some parastatals.
The number of such meetings is expected to increase as 31st December 2022 is the deadline for submitting second declarations by declarants who complied with the 2020 deadline.

19 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply BUDGET PROPOSALS RECURRENT BUDGET Mr Chairperson, with your permission, may I now proceed to present my budget request for the 2022/2023 financial year.
Mr Chairperson, I request for the sum of Nineteen Million, One Hundred and Fourteen Thousand, One Hundred and Seventy Pula (P19,114,170.00) for the 2022/2023 financial year.

May I now proceed to outline the major items of expenditure that comprise my budget proposal.

PARENT ACCOUNT 00110 – SALARIES AND ALLOWANCES Mr Chairperson, I request for Eight Million, Four Hundred and Fifty-Eight Thousand, One Hundred and Twenty Pula (P8,458,120.00).
PARENT ACCOUNT 00200 – TRAVELLING AND TRANSPORT (INTERNAL) Mr Chairperson, under this item I request for an allocation of One Million, One Hundred and Eighty- Three Thousand, Eight Hundred Pula (P1,183,800.00).

PARENT ACCOUNT 00300 – TRAVELLING AND TRANSPORT (EXTERNAL) Mr Chairperson, I request for an allocation of Six Hundred and Fifty Thousand Pula (P650,000.00).
PARENT ACCOUNT 00400 – GENERAL EXPENSES AND PUBLICITY Mr Chairperson, I request for an amount of Two Million, Four Hundred and Thirty-Two Thousand, Two Hundred and Fifty Pula (P2,432,250.00).

The funds will be used for advertising and publicity, service charges, postal charges and office supplies.

PARENT ACCOUNT 00500 – DEPARTMENTAL SERVICES Mr Chairperson, for this account I request for Two Million, Two Hundred Thousand Pula (P2,200,000.00).
The funds will be used for consultancies and for office rentals.

PARENT ACCOUNT 00700 – MAINTENANCE AND RUNNING EXPENSES (EQUIPMENT) Mr Chairperson, I would like to request for Five Hundred and Forty Thousand Pula (P540,000.00) under this account.

The funds will be used for computer systems consumables, fire-fighting equipment and maintenance of the fleet.
PARENT ACCOUNT 00800 – MAINTENANCE AND RUNNING EXPENSES (OTHERS) Mr Chairperson, for this account I request for One Million, One Hundred and Sixty Thousand Pula (P1,160,000.00).

The funds will be used for maintenance of offices and minor works.

PARENT ACCOUNT 00900 – INSTITUTIONAL RUNNING EXPENSES Mr Chairperson, for this account I request for One Hundred Thousand Pula (P100,000.00).

The funds will be used for purchase of Library Books and Texts.
PARENT ACCOUNT 01100 – GOVERNMENT HOSPITALITY Mr Chairperson, for this account I request Two Hundred Thousand Pula (P200,000.00).

PARENT ACCOUNT 01200 – TRAINING Mr Chairperson, I request for Six Hundred and Thirty Thousand Pula (P630,000.00).

The funds will cater for short-term courses and performance management activities.

PARENT ACCOUNT 01300 – COUNCILS, CONFERENCES AND EXHIBITIONS Mr Chairperson, I request for the sum of Three Hundred and Thirty Thousand Pula (P330,000.00).
The funds will cater for seminars, workshops and conferences.

PARENT ACCOUNT EXPENDITURE 04300 – SPECIAL Mr Chairperson, for this account I request for One Million, Two Hundred and Thirty Thousand Pula (P1,230,000.00).

These funds will be utilised for furniture and office equipment.

DEVELOPMENT BUDGET Mr Chairperson, the Directorate does not have a Development Budget since the setting up of the Directorate is still a work in progress.
20 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply CONCLUSION Later Date.

Mr Chairperson, this concludes my budget proposal for Organisation 2800 - EID.

I now request that a total of Nineteen Million, One Hundred and Fourteen Thousand, One Hundred and Seventy Pula (P19,114,170.00) for the Recurrent Budget be approved for the financial year 2022/2023.

I move accordingly.

Thank you Mr Chairperson.


MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, the matter is open for debate.

Honourable Motsamai has not given me a list again nor Honourable Kablay.

Therefore, without those lists, I shall be calling upon the Minister to reply to the debate.

MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of procedure.

Ke ne ke re Honourable Motsamai o tswetse fa ntle, o ntaetse gore mo list ya rona ke Honourable Kapinga wa ntlha, wa bobedi ke Honourable Lucas, wa boraro ke nna sir.
MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

It is already 1 o’clock, maybe you should adjourn.

MR CHAIRPERSON: ...(Laughter!)...

Nnyaa, wena o motho yo o mosha thata, I will agree with you.

Order!

Order!

As Honourable Kapinga already said, as it is now 1 o’clock, we shall suspend our deliberations here for some refreshments and we shall be back at 2 o’clock, the House is adjourned.

Bon appétit Honourable Members!


PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 1:00 P.M. FOR APPROXIMATELY 1 HOUR PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 2:00 P.M. MR SPEAKER (MR MOATLHODI): Order!

We are still covered by thapelo ya phakela.

Good afternoon Honourable Members!

Let us start our business for today with Leader of the House’s Question Time.

LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Member for Selebi Phikwe West.

Tanki mokaulengwe wa me, for your amicability.

Honourable Member for Gaborone Central!


…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Tsala ya gagwe ke Boko.

Boko, tsala ya gago e kae, ke a feta nna.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: He went for a tender motho yoo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Tsala ya gagwe ke Boko.

MR SPEAKER: Ee, tsala ya gagwe ke Boko.

Gakere o utlwa ke bitsa Boko.

Boko wee, tsala ya gago e kae?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga ba yo mmogo.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Mr Speaker, ke ne ke sokola go bulela foo.
Question without notice… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Motho yo o seyong ke Boko Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Rra?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke ne ke re Tumisang is always in Parliament, motho yo o seyong ke Boko, ke ene a nnang a seyo.

Honourable Healy is here.

MR SPEAKER: O a lotlhanya kana le wena ngwanaka, ke a go itse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Boko is attending an official event.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Healy, please botsa potso.

MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure.

Mr Speaker, o kare go tlaa nna le trend ya to malign Honourable Boko.
Ga ke itse gore mokgwa oo tota o tswa kae... TIME MR SPEAKER: Go dirwa jang?

THEME: JUDICIAL APPOINTMENTS; HIGH COURT, COURT OF APPEAL JUDGES, CHIEF JUSTICE AND JUDGE PRESIDENT MR D. L. KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): Mr Speaker, nte ke go lebogele opportunity e. Ke bo ke tlhalose gore go latela tumalano ya me le Mothusa Tautona, e re e buisantseng le wena, ke gore potso e e later dated to next week.

Ke a leboga sir.

MR KEORAPETSE: To malign, wa go senya leina le go mo leswefatsa.
Fa ke bua le wena jaana, Honourable Boko is attending an official event in Mahalapye, kwa Botswana Railways, o na le Honourable Dr Tshabang le mongwe wa boraro ke lebala gore ke mang.

Jaanong go nna go buiwa ditori fela kana e nna o kare he is a truant in Parliament.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke Honourable Tshere.

21 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME MR KEORAPETSE: That Honourable Tshere.

is not accurate.

Le HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wena gakere o moBotswana Congress Party (BCP) ga o moUmbrella for Democratic Party (UDC).

MR SPEAKER: We are asking questions.

Honourable Healy.

...Silence...

MR KEORAPETSE: Mr Speaker, o ele tlhoko ...(Interruptions)... o tlhole le register.

MR SPEAKER: Ke tlaa mo feta kana.

Honourable Healy.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O buelela ntsalae.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mo fete Speaker.

MR KEORAPETSE: Mr Speaker, ntshireletse ke wele ka point of procedure.
MR SPEAKER: Ke gone Mangwegape-Healy.

fela.

Honourable MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Ke go sireleditse Honourable Keorapetse.

Digela ka pela ngwanaka.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Hello Mr Speaker, can you hear me?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR KEORAPETSE: Ee.

Fa ke digela Mr Speaker ke ne ke re, o ye to check register ya gago, o lebelele batho ba ba truant mo Palamenteng, Honourable Boko is definitely not one of them.

Go and check.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Keorapetse.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Rakgare ke ene a nnang fela kwa Dubai.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Batswana ba a itse.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Honourable Mmolotsi!

Order Rakgare!

Hei!

Hei!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re a itse gore Dithapelo ke eng a mo sireletsa.

Ke maBotswana National Front (BNF) mmogo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O nna fela kwa Dubai.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: MoBNF o sireletsa moBNF yo mongwe.

MR SPEAKER: Rakgare!

Just switch Rakgare off.

Ao bagaetsho!


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Not only switching him off... MR SPEAKER: Order!

Bagaetsho, Honourable Keorapetse is aware of our procedures, fa Mopalamente a seyo, he reports to my Clerks.

Ga gona ope yo o ka reng Motlotlegi Mopalamente a le kwa tirong a tlhola a mo goagoa.

I am here to protect all of you, as I am doing.

Honourable Mangwegape-Healy.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Maranyane, maranyane Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Healy.

Why do you not move next door?


Go to another Member of Parliament’s office.

Re tlhola re dira jalo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O mmitsa gantsi, mme nna o mpiditse gabedi fela o bo o mpheta, ga o a siama Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Ke go biditse gantsi nnaka, Rraagwe Kago.

Tlogela go tsena mo ditsheleng tsa batho ba bangwe, wena o nnake tota kana.

Honourable Healy.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: O nkutlwile Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, o a nkutlwa?

MR SPEAKER: Ee rra, ke a go utlwa.


MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: …(Inaudible)… Ga ke itse gore a ke na le mathata a maranyane golo fa... MR SPEAKER: Tsena mo ofising ya Mopalamente yo mongwe.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Fa e setse e le ko go 33 jaana from 45 ...(Inaudible)… yes, fa e tšhaya I am moving to the next item on the programme.

Honourable Healy.

I think it is safe that you ...(Interruptions)... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re tlaa mo e tseela Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: …you must let the clock tick.


When the time comes for me to close, I am ...(Inaudible)… tick the clock.

22 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke tlaa mo e tseela Mr Speaker.
QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE PUBLIC HEALTH ORDER MR T. MANGWEGAPE-HEALY (GABORONE CENTRAL): asked the Minister of Health and Wellness to explain to this Honourable House that since inception of the public health order in 14th February, 2022: a na le se a nang le sone Mr Speaker.

Ke tsone tse re di bayang e le adverse effects following immunisation, we could have them as minor, moderate or severe.
Severe kana go tewa fa e le gore gongwe motho mongwe o ka felela a latlhegelwa ke botshelo, a felela a le kwa sepateleng a robaditswe kana go nna le bogole jo bo rileng.

Go araba potso ya ga mokaulengwe Mr Speaker, ke supe jaana gore; (i) how many people entered through gazetted ports of entry; (i) 65 987 people entered the country through gazetted ports of entry since 14 February, 2022.

(ii) how many of those were vaccinated at the ports (ii) 9 682 were vaccinated at points of entry.
of entry; (iii) how many reported adverse effects from those vaccinated and if there are any mortalities reported; (iv) what is the procedure for reporting adverse effects; and (v) how are investigations carried out following adverse effects.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you so much Mr Speaker, ke tsaya gore ke a utlwala.

(iii) We are currently unable to compute the total number of adverse effects noted in the period in question.
There are various Adverse Events Following (AEFI) committees across the country, that receive any such reports and would then make assessments and recommend the Botswana investigations appropriate Medicines Regulatory Authority (BoMRA).

Immunisation to I wish to assure Honourable Members that sometime in the future, a full briefing on Adverse Effects Following Immunisation (AEFI), the report will be be published fa vaccination programme e tsamela go fela Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Yes sir.


(iv) AEFIs are reported as follows: MR LELATISITSWE: Mr Speaker, I wish first to define adverse effects following immunisation … (Inaudible)… medical occurrence which follows immunisation…(Inaudible)… MR SPEAKER: We cannot hear you unfortunately.

…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Please continue.

MR LELATISITSWE: Mr Speaker, ke supe jaana gore adverse drug effects tse di diragalang morago ga motho a sena go kenta, di ka diragala ka mabaka a mantsi thata.
Go sa reye gore gongwe di tshwaragantswe kana di na le any relationship le gore vaccine e ntse jang ka boyone.

Di ka diragala jaana ka gore gongwe vaccine product, the vaccine quality defects, immunisation error kana anxiety after immunisation, gongwe motho a ne a tshogile ka nako e neng a kentiwa ka yone mo gongwe a ka felelang a idibala (faint) jalo.
It could be coincidental, re raya gore nako eo motho yo o ka tswa ene a ne a ntse gongwe • Notification of AEFI; the clients notify health care workers at a health facility about the side effects they are experiencing.

• Confirmation and reporting; the health care worker assesses and confirms the AEFI and then fills out a report form which is sent to Botswana Medicines Regulatory Authority (BoMRA) led by the District AEFI Committee.
• Decision of for those investigation; that warrant the District AEFI Committee would then assess reports and launch investigations further investigations.

Ba bangwe ba a bo ba opiwa ke tlhogo fela, go tswa foo e bo e boa e nyelela.

Fa e leng gore go tlhokana le gore go salwe morago, go dirwa jalo Mr Speaker.
The outcome of these investigations together with all reports not necessitating investigation would then be forwarded to National AEFI Committee which would assess and determine if the vaccine had any contribution in the adverse events experienced by that patient.
23 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE (v) (a) In Botswana the National AEFI Committee is an independent committee consisting of different specialists who assess casualties and serious adverse events and determines if they are indeed due to the vaccine.

Ba teng Mr Speaker.

(vi) If AEFI warrants investigation, then such is launched and a final determination on causality is made following the findings of the investigation.
(vii) The National AEFI Committee also conducts causality assessment on any AEFI that has been investigated to conclude the investigation.

This involves deciding on the next course of action to take for example; recommending appropriate medical intervention for the client and also a decision on whether to stop or temporarily suspend the roll out of the vaccine fa go nang le mathata gore re ka tswelela ke mokento kana jang.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Supplementary.


Thank you very much Honourable Speaker.

Ke ne ke na le mathatanyana a maranyane but I am here.

Thank you Honourable Minister for the answers.

Honourable Minister, what raised this question ke gore, go ntse go na le reports tsa gore mongwe o ne a pateletswa go kentiwa kwa molelwaneng mme a felela a re tlogetse.

Ke batla o e tlhatswe gore a ke nnete go ntse jalo ka dikgang tse re di utlwang ka mongwe yo o kentilweng a ba a felela a re tlogetse?
Motho gape o ka batla go itse gore le ne le dirisa molemo ofe?

A molemo wa teng o ne o santse o le mo tirisong kang o ne o le expired jaaka re a tle re utlwe gotwe e kare melemo e gaufi le go felelwa ke boleng?

Sa bofelo Minister, committee e o buang ka yone e e tlhokomelang ditlamorago tse di sa siamang tsa molemo, motho o ka eletsa go itse gore go tsenngwa bomang le gore a o itumelela the follow-up e e dirwang mo dikgannyeng tsa ditlamorago tse di sa siamang tsa melemo?

I thank you Mr Speaker.


MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Tota jaaka ke supile mo karabong kwa tshimologong gore fa motho a sena go kentiwa go diragala eng, go fitlhelela go ya go tsena kwa the final assessment, I can confirm gore go na le mongwe yo e leng gore he is still under investigation.

O ne a tsena kwa molelwaneng mme voluntarily ka bo ene … Sa ntlha ke supe gore motho was not forced go kenta.
O ne a tswa kwa lefatsheng le re bapileng le lone ka nako ya fa re na le molao o e leng gore pele fa o ka tsena ka kwano, o tshwanetse wa bo o tsere mekento ya gago yotlhe.

Rre yo first dose ya gagwe o ne a tsere mokento wa Johnson and Johnson and he was due to take a booster.

E bile ene ka boene, o ne a re a fiwe booster.

O ne a e fiwa rra, a tsena mo lefatsheng le.

Morago ga lebaka le le rileng a felela a nna le dikai tse go neng akanngwa gore ke tsa mokento rra, tse re santseng re di setse morago.
Re ne ra mo booster ka Johnson and Johnson e a neng a e tsere lantlha kwa lefatsheng la ga bone.

Mo lefatsheng la rona o ne a felela a fiwa Johnson and Johnson e e leng gore ga go na boammaaruri jwa gore it has expired jaaka o ne o botsa mokaulengwe.

Johnson and Johnson e a neng a kentiwa ka yone, ke e e leng gore le gompieno e ntse e a dirisiwa.

It is going to expire ka 2023 rraetsho.

Rre yo bagabone ba setse ba mo tsere ba mmuseditse kwa lefatsheng la bone ba ile go tswelela ka tsa phitlho.
Rona ka kwano re santse re tsweletse re sekaseka go bona gore a mme bolwetse jwa gagwe bo ka tswa bo amana le mokento o a o tsereng.

Jaanong re gone foo.

Jaaka ke buile, ba BoMRA ba na le committee rraetsho ya bomaitsaanape ba ba farologanyeng ba ba ithutileng tsa melemo.

Ke a ba kgotsofalela gore se ba se dirang, ke se ba se itseng.

Ke tsaya gore kwa bofelong ba tlaa re neela reports tsa go bona gore a mme batho bale dintsho tsa bone di tsamaelana le bolwetse kana ke mo gotweng coincidental.
Gongwe motho o ka bo a re tlogetse mme go tshwaragane fela le gore a bo a kentilwe ka nako eo.

Ke tsaya gore rraetsho go go araba, ke ka ema go le kalo.

MR LESEDI: Supplementary.

Good afternoon sir.

Mr Speaker, mo karabong e e neng e dirwa ke Tona, a tlhalosetse Ntlo e gore fa e le gore mo ditlhotlhomisong tsa bone ba ka fitlhela leso le le bakilwe ke mokento, kgato e e tsewang ke efe?

A re sedimosetse, ke raya ke buelela mo go se a neng a se bua.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Ke tsaya gore jaaka ke arabile mo potsong Mr Speaker.

Fa go fitlhelwa mokento o amana le leso la molwetse, ke supile gore then a decision would be taken, for example, recommending an appropriate intervention.

Kana yo o tlhokafetse jaanong, ga gona any medical intervention e e ka tsewang.
Kana go lebelelwa gore kana motho yo o ne a lwala malwetse a a ntseng jang, go bo go bonwa gore batho ba malwetse a a ntseng jalo gongwe mokento o o ka se ke o ba ame.

E bo e re in the future ba bo ba felela e le gore bone ga ba kentiwe ka mokento o o ntseng jalo.

Ke tsaya gore ke dingwe tse di ka dirwang kana mokento wa emisiwa rraetsho ga bolelelwa bale gore o borai.
O bo o felela o emiswa gotlhelele gore o 24 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE ka nna wa tswelela to be administered mo bathong.

Ke dingwe dilo tse di ka dirwang fa go lemogiwa gore dikai tseo di felela di supa gore di tseetse motho botshelo.

Re a itse gore batho ka bongwe ka bongwe ga re tshwane.

MR LEUWE: Supplementary.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Good afternoon Rraagwe Nkamo.


Ke ne ke re gongwe Tona a re fetise fa ka gore kgang e e setse e phatlaletse le lefatshe le lotlhe, Batswana e bile jaanong ba emisitse ditsebe ba ipotsa gore go tlaa diragala eng e bile go lebega e tlaa ama kgang ya boosters.

Se ba se dirang e le Office ya Health gore Batswana ba se ka ba tshosiwa ke kgang eo ke eng gore ba tle ba tswelele ba boost ka gore go lebega lefatshe le amega ntateng ya puo ya kgang eo?
Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke a leboga Honourable Mangwegape-Healy.

MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, jaaka ke ne ke buile kwa tshimologong gore kana melemo e na le ditlamorago, mme re nna re ntse re ruta Batswana.

Se se tona re lebelela gore le fa ditlamorago tse di le teng, motho ene ka boene fa bolwetse bo ka mo tsena a mme re ka nna le ene.
Ke sone se re tlholang re rotloetsa jalo gore Batswana ba itse gore melemo e tlhatlhobilwe, mme le fa e tlhatlhobilwe jalo e ka nna le ditlamorago.

Re tswelela re bua gore botlhokwa jwa go tsaya molemo bo feta jwa gore gongwe re ka se ke re tseye melemo ka ntata ya gore fale le fale re nna le ditlamorago tse di rileng.

Ke sengwe sa dilo tse le rona re eletsang gore re le Batswana re itse jalo.

Gape re na le lekalana la rona BoMRA le e eng gore le tshwaragane le la mafatshefatshe.
Ke lekalana le le ikemetseng.

Le na le bana ba rona ba ba rutegileng ba ba ithutetseng dithuto tsa maranyane.

Ba ruta ka go bona gore a mme molemo o o siametse go dirisiwa mo bathong.

Kgantele komiti e ke neng ke batla go bua ka yone, komiti e… …Silence… MR SPEAKER: Did we lose you Honourable Minister?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mme e bile ga a nkarabe, ga a address e ke e buang.

MR LELATISITSWE: Ee rra.

Ke amogetse lantlha Honourable Leuwe gore batho ba ka nna le letshogo.
Ke gone mo re rotloetsang batho jaaka o bona re tla even to Parliament re araba these kind of questions.

Re ntse re assure Batswana gore melemo e re e tlisang mo lefatsheng ke ntse ke yone e e dirisiwang mo lefatsheng lotlhe ka bophara.

Ga ba a tshwanela go nna le letshogo lepe la gore gongwe fa ba tseya boosters, go ka nna le diphatsa dipe.

Diphatsa tse di leng teng ke gore immunity ya gago as a person fa o sa tseye booster e ya kwa tlase.
O nna in a risk ya gore gongwe fa Corona e ka boa e bo e ka go tsaya.

Gape go a supafala gore mafatshe a a sa bolong go kenta pele, the immunity is dropping.

Re bona e le gore COVID e a simolola kwa go bone.

Ke sone se re rotloetsang gore bagaetsho, mekento e ke ntse ke e re neng re e dirisa la ntlha, a Batswana ba tswelele ba e tseye.

Public education rra e tsweletse go rotloetsa Batswana go tsaya melemo.

MR LEUWE: Supplementary.

Thank you Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker, ke feel gore Tona o a tlhalosa but o tlhalosa se ba ntseng ba se dira throughout.

Ke dumela gore it is not enough gore go bo go tla go arabiwa potso mo Palamenteng.

Se ke neng ke se botsa ke gore ka batho ba setse ba emisitse ditsebe ka kgang e ya kwa molelwaneng, se ba se dirang mo bogompienong kwa ntleng ga go tla fa a araba potso, ke eng?

Ba leke go bontsha Batswana gore le fa go ntse jaana, mme seemo sone ke se.
Ke dumela gore mo Palamenteng it is not enough Minister.

Fa e le sengwe o ye kwa seromamoweng kgotsa golo gongwe kwa o ka gasang molaetsa o o tlaa gorogang kwa Batswaneng gore bagaetsho, le fa go na le seemo se re se tlhotlhomisang mme re santse re rotloetsa gore go nne jaana.
Tse o di buang Honourable Tona ke tse di kwa morago tse re ntseng re tla re di raya batho, but since go na le this case, ke dumela gore jaanong ditsebe tsa batho di bulegile thata gore go na le bothata, ba simolotse go ikgogela kwa morago.

Ke a leboga.

Tanki Rraagwe Nkamo.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Leuwe.

Honourable Minister, ke tseela gore o utlwile.

MR LELATISITSWE: Ee rra, ke utlwile kgakololo.


Team ya rona nako le nako e nna at radio le television go bua ka botlhokwa jwa go tswelela re tsaya mekento Mr Speaker.

Ke tsaya gore re tlaa oketsa le rona.

Ke tsaya jalo gore re utlwile rra.

MR MMOLOTSI: Supplementary.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

Maloba e ne ya re fa re buisana ka kgang yone e le Tona, a re bolelela fa e le gore molao o cover Tona le lephata in the event ya gore motho o ka nna le mathata a sena go neelwa molemo o a sa batle.
Ke ne ke batla go itse gore a Tona o santse a ka re rurifaletsa gore ga go na ope yo o ka ba sekisang?

E bile a Tona o santse a ka re solofetsa gore molao covers them gore 25 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE le fa motho a ka tlhokafala jaaka gongwe go diragetse jaana, e bo e le gore makgotlatshekelo a ka bona e le gore ka boammaaruri they were covered by molao?

MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker, ke buile fela jaana maloba gore Molao wa rona wa Public Health covers Tona gore o ka dira an order which imposes eng tse di amang public health mo lefatsheng mme ke ntse ke bua jalo.

Kgang e re buang ka yone, ke buile gore motho yo re buang ka ene yo o ne a kentilwe ka Johnsons & Johnson kwa a tswang teng kwa lefatshe la bone mme le rona re mo kentile ka Johnson & Johnson e le a booster.
Kana motho o na le choice Mr Speaker, choice ya gagwe ya ntlha e ne e le gore e ne e kare a tsena kwa molelwaneng a bo a re, “ga ke batle go kenta,” a bo a boela kwa lefatsheng la bone.

There was that choice but voluntarily o dumetse gore he is due for the booster, re bo re mo e neela.

Ke tsaya gore kana dikgang tse tsa medical error kana eng, ke buile gore investigation e santse e tsweletse, e tlaa re kwa bofelong go itsiwe the cause of the death.
Dikgang tse a di buang sa semolao di ka tsena mme tsa arabesega, makgotlatshekelo a tsaya tshwetso e bone ba bonang e tlhamaletse go ya kwa pele rraetsho.

MR REATILE: Supplementary.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mma ke leboge le dikarabo tsa ga Tona ka fa di ntseng ka teng le mmotsi wa potso.

Mr Speaker, ke tlaa botsa dipotso tse tharo fela mme di le dikhutshwane.
Tona, ke ne ke ka eletsa gore fa go ne go ka kgonagala gore re se ka ra dira reference kwa go yo o setseng a re tlogetse, re bue fela ka dikgang tse tsa botsogo ka gore o kare jaanong ga e nne sentle le ka fa dingwaong tsa rona fela re le Batswana.

Potso ya me Tona, ke ne ke batla go itse gore a go na le nako epe e wena o e gakologelwang motlotlegi e go kileng ga nna le melemo which we destroyed ya Corona e e neng e senyegile?

Ke potso ya ntlha.
Ke potso ya ntlha.

Ya bobedi, ke batla go itse gore a o santse mme Tona o ema le mafoko a gago a maloba mo o neng o re Public Health e go neela dithata tsa gore o tseye ditshwetso, o bo o amoge batho ditshwanelo tse ba di neelwang ke Constitution, o supa gore Public Health e tona mo Constitution?

A mafoko ao o santse o ema nao motlotlegi?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Mr Speaker.


Ke supa jalo gore Public Health fa go na le a contagious disease, bolwetse jo bo tshelanwang, jaaka fa o bona le gompieno…ke buile sekai maloba gore gompieno jaana Mopalamente Rre Reatile o tsamaya a hupile masks, mme ga se ka fa re neng re ka eletsa ka teng, go ntshitswe molao fela gore go rwalwe masks.

Fa o sa o tsenya o a atlholwa.

Go raya gore your rights… tsone tse e leng gore fa o ka tlogelwa o sa tsenya mask o ka tsenya motho yo mongwe bolwetse.
Ke sone se ke neng ke leka go se go tlhalosetsa at a layman’s level.

Ke gone mo ke neng ke leka go go tlhalosetsa gore, fa bolwetse bo le contagious, mo go tshwanang mo, mo e leng gore wena ga o tlhophe gore bo ya kwa go mang, Public Health Act e a tsena gone foo.

Jaaka o bona re ne re go tswalela gore fa o ne o batla go ya kwa ga Mmangwato re go bolelela gore ga o ka ke wa ya koo, mme ka rights tsa gago wena fela o ne o ka tsamaya, le dilo tse tsotlhe re di tswetse.
Seo re ne re leka go bua ka Public Health Act rraetsho, e le go supa ntlha e fela ya gore powers tse di leng mo teng di kae.

Go tshwana le o na le bolwetse jwa Tuberculosis (TB), le yone re a itse jalo gore re ka go tsaya ra go tlhatlhela, mme re go tlhatlhelela fela gore ga o sale ditaelo tsa bolwetse jwa TB morago.

Re ka go tlhatlhela o sa seka.

We can invoke the Public Health Act re bo re go tlhatlhela, le o sa ya kgotlatshekelong.

MR SPEAKER: Re lebogile rraarona Tona.


MR REATILE: Ga a ise a bue ka e ya melemo Mr Speaker.

Ga a ise a nkarabe ya melemo that has expired.

MR SPEAKER: O a utlwa le ene.

MR LELATISITSWE: Oh!

Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Go na le procedure Mr Speaker.

Fa melemo e le expired ga e tsewe fela e bo e ya go senngwa, there is a procedure e e leng gore e teng, e ntshiwa mo shelves and recorded.

Ke our supplies rules and regulations kana ke Act, go salwa morago that process.
Ke gore e ntshiwa mo go e mengwe.

Re e ntsha mo go e mengwe re bo re e beela ka fa thoko jalo and then the process is followed, until destruction e ya go goroga.

Ke process e e dirwang under Ministry of Finance.

Ke tsaya jalo gore Honourable Peggy ka fa a itseng ka teng o dumala le nna.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Minister, motlotlegi o utlwile.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go tlhokile yo o arabang Mr Speaker, ga go na moarabi.

MR SPEAKER: …(Laughter!

)… MR NKAWANA: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.
Tona le fa a ipoka ka molao o a o tshwereng, o a ka thathelang mongwe le mongwe, ke re ke mmotse gore, a o kile a 26 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE leka go lebelela the impact ya go kganela batho at the border, drivers, bajanala ba ba neng ba boa ka lebaka la gore go na le molao wa gagwe o a o bokang thata o o reng fa o sa kentiwa… a o a itse gore go nnile le kamego e tona mo itsholelong ya lefatshe la Botswana ntateng ya molao o a o bokang oo?
MR SPEAKER: Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona, a o a itse?

MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Re le lephata re nna le meetings tse re di kopanelang le banaleseabe, mo gotweng stakeholders, ba ba farologaneng fa re sena go dira an instrument.

Ke tsaya gore le ene o ka lemoga gore we have reduced ka fa e neng e ntse ka teng la ntlha, e le gone go lebelela jalo gore ke dipuisano tse re di kopanelang le ba bangwe.

Ke tsaya gore there is an impact somehow.


Ke gone mo re feletseng re tsaya ditshwetso tse di ntseng jalo rraetsho.

Ga go na study sepe se ke ka se supang ke re ke se dirile go kala that impact.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

Ke a ipotsa Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Okavango, I am assuming the hand is up because in the past, I called upon you to contribute to the debate, or you want to have a share on this potso?

MR KAPINGA: No, I want to start debating.


MR SPEAKER: I shall call upon you mokaulengwe wa me.

Do not worry.

ASSEMBLY IN COMMITTEE (CHAIRPERSON in the Chair) APPROPRIATION (2022/2023) BILL, 2022 (NO.

2 OF 2022) ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATE (Resumed Debate) (MR MOATLHODI): MR CHAIRPERSON Honourable Members, the debate on this Bill is resuming.

When the House adjourned earlier, Honourable Kenny Kapinga was on the floor debating.
In all fairness Honourable Kapinga, I am going to allot you the whole 10 minutes.

Please Honourable Kapinga take your floor.

MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you very much Mr Chairperson for your fairness.

Ke lebogela sebaka se sa go latlhela mo kgannyeng e ya the Ethics and Integrity Directorate.

Personally, on reflection, with hindsight, ke dumela gore we have created an agency e e leng gore it is superfluous.
Go ne go sa tlhokafale gore re dire an agency of this nature re ntse re na le Lephata le le tshwanang le Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC).

Go tswa mo pegong e re e neetsweng ke Tona all that the Directorate has done this year of significance ke go tsaya declaration mo bathong that were listed gore they are required to declare their assets and their liabilities.
Essentially, they are a mere registry like Registrar of Deeds and other registries that we have mo bodirelengpusong jwa lefatshe le.

It was a misnomer, a serious misnomer Mr Chairperson, go ba bitsa re re they are an Ethics and Integrity Directorate.

Leina leo implies much bigger responsibility than to merely register the declarations of assets and liabilities by certain prescribed offices.

Gape fa o lebelela fela e ne e le to multiply agencies, duplication of agencies.
This responsibility ya to register declaration of assets and liabilities could easily have been subsumed under the Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime.

Go ka bo go dirilwe a unit within the DCEC that will be responsible for registering these declarations and making the necessary verifications.

When it comes to enforcing laws and other issues which ensures integrity, these are spread amongst various agencies.
Ga se e go katweng e neetswe lephata le le lengwefela le bo le fiwa mogobagoba wa leina gotwe is the Ethics and Integrity Directorate.

It was a mistake.

I believe ga re a ya kgakala mo go kalokalo mo re ka palelwang ke go tsaya tshwetso ya gore, nnyaa golo fa re ne re jele error re le Goromente wa Botswana, a re phatlalatseng selo se re ye go se tsenya ka fa tlase ga DCEC.
Re tlhola re ntse re re, ga re itse where we can save money, ditshenyegelo tsa ga Goromente di ya kwa godimo, re fokotsa bodirelapuso.

Gone fa ke gone fa re ka fokotsang bodirelapuso teng.

Ke gone fa re ka fokotsang posts tse dintsintsi tsa PS level tse di sa tlhokafaleng, ra isa boikarabelo jwa to register assets and liabilities kwa DCEC.
One of the purposes ya to register assets tsa motho le liabilities tsa gagwe is to enable yourself as a law enforcement agency to be able to monitor their lifestyle, gore mme e sale a tsene ka di 23 November mo Palamenteng kana ke October, re ne re itse a tshotse se.

Jaanong fa e le gore o setse a tshotse tse di kana a re mo ikatumetse re le DCEC, re tle re mmotse gore tse di kanakana o di tsaya kae mo sebakeng se se khutshwanyane se?
27 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) It is part of intelligence gathering Mr Chairperson, e e tlhokafalang gore e nne teng kwa DCEC, rather than e ye go fitlhelwa in another agency that has been blown over.

Go na le movie o mongwe kwa America Mr Chairperson, o bidiwa gotwe ‘Honey, I blew up the Child’.
Ngwana yo o kananyana fela a bo a nosiwa chemical kana e ne e le eng, a bo a nna motona fela a nna kana ka Friction jaana …(Laughter!)

... Tlhaloganyo e ne e ise e gole, o a bona.

A bo a tsamaya a gataka batho mo ka gore tlhaloganyo ga e a gola mme ene o motona.

Jaanong ke sone se re se dirileng mo lephateng le Mr Chairperson.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: E se ka ya re ke akgela ka wena wa ngongorega.

MR KAPINGA: Nnyaa, re ditsala Friction … (Laughter!)...

O se ka wa ngala, re ditsala.


Se sengwe se se supang fela gore ga gona maikaelelo a go isa lephata le golo gongwe Mr Chairperson, ke dumela gore lephata fa le le lesha, ke lone le le tlhokang go godisiwa go na le maphata a magologolo.

Jaanong o lebelela kwa Development Budget, Honourable Mthimkhulu o re bolelela gore there is no Development Budget.

You can see that there is no serious intention about this department.
We were just ticking a box gore e re go botswa, go bo gotwe le rona mo Botswana re na le Ethics and Integrity Directorate but there is no intention ya go le godisa.

Otherwise, it will be having a reasonable Development Budget, re itse gore re batla go le godisa.

Botswana is a geographically big country.


Ga se mo e ka bong something like this which is a service and being centralised fela mo Gaborone, e bo e le gore there is no Development Budget that is intended to decentralise it at least to Francistown or Maun, gore batho ba se ka ba tsamaya more than a thousand kilometres (km) a re ke isa forms tsa me tsa declaration.
Imagine fela Mr Chairperson, ke tswa kwa Shakawe ke ne ke romeletswe forms gore baakanya foo Mr Kapinga, ke bo ke tshwanelwa ke go emelela kwa ke tla Gaborone go tlisa forms tsa me, when I could have taken them to the nearest place in Maun.

This absence of a Development Budget e supa fela gore there is no intention to grow this department at all.

It was meant to tick a box.


Look at the training vote; ga e ka ke ya re o tlhama lephata le lesha, o bo o sa tsenye madi to ensure that bodiredi jo o bo neetseng boikarabelo jo, they are well trained and equipped to undertake the responsibility that they have been given.

Training e filwe P630,000.

You cannot give P630,000 training for a serious department.

You cannot do that.
You cannot do that.

Exhibitions; kana exhibitions ke kwa le rutang batho teng gore lephata le le emetse eng, re dira eng, lona le le customers tsa teng re solofetse se le se mo go lona; you give it P300,000.

Go supa fela gore ga gona tlhoafalo Mr Chairperson.

This thing was meant mo gotweng go baya batho bobi matlhong gore re dirile lephata.
Ka one mabaka ao, ke dumela gore re santse re ka tsaya tshwetso ya gore lephata le a le phatlaladiwe fela le busediwe kwa le neng le tshwanetse go tlhomiwa teng, e le kwa DCEC.

There is no justification ya gore selo se go bo gotwe se ikemetse se le nosi and it is headed at Permanent Secretary (PS) level.

We are paying huge sums of money for nothing Mr Chairperson.
Sa bofelo se ke neng ke batla go se bua, lephata le fa re ne re tlhoafetse gore re batla go dira le le tlhoafetseng, re ne re ka se ka ra le dira in such a way ya gore valuations tse di tlhokafalang to disclose the value of your assets and liabilities, the onus has now been placed on the declarant gore ke ene yo o tlaa dirang sengwe le sengwe, a ya go batla valuer le eng when that responsibility, sa me ke tshwanetse go bolela fela gore ke na le matlo a le 10.
Gore how much they value, that is your responsibility go tlhotlhomisa gore mme matlo a a 10 a Kapinga a nang le one a… HONOURABLE MEMBER: O mohumi Ambassador.

tlhe MR KAPINGA: ...a ja bokae.

I am giving a theoretical case Honourable Healy.

Fa a na le matlo a le 10 jaana, a ja bokae?

Fa e le gore re ya go fitlhela e le gore a ja P20 million, ke tshwanetse ke tlhalose gore jaanong madi a a kanakana, o ne o le lepodise fela la Modimo le le sa amogeleng sepe, o tsere kae a a kalo go aga matlo a a kana.
That is the job that should be done by this Directorate, e seng gore ke nne ke imelwe ke sengwe le sengwe, ke tsamae all over ke batla valuers at my own cost, ke berekele lephata le le tshwanetseng gore le ka bo le iperekela.

That is their responsibility; to investigate, verify and confirm gore assets tsa motho o, ke nnete di kana, e seng gore ke ba direle tiro.
Go supa fela gore lephata le tota go ne go dirwa skeleton fela go kgona go supa gore nnyaa, le rona re na le lephata mo Botswana la Ethics and Integrity Directorate.

Honourable Minister, phatlalatsa o fudusetse kwa DCEC e ya go nna a unit under it, e seng gore e nne lephata le le ikemetseng le le sa yeng gope.

Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.


28 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MS MAKWINJA): Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

Ke leboga gore o bo o mphile motsotso o wa gore ke akgele mo kgannyeng e mme e botlhokwa fela thata.

Gore lephata le fa kae tota ga se kgang, kgang ke gore lephata le le a tlhokafala.
Ke ka bo ke re tiro ya lone e a tlhokafala mme fa e tlhokafala jaana, le tshwanetse go tsewa jaaka lephata le le tlileng go dira gore Motswana a nne le boammaaruri.

A kgone go itse gore dithoto tsa gagwe o tshwanetse go nna le tsone ka fa mokgweng o o tlhamaletseng.

Re a itse gore rotlhe re lela ka corruption Mr Chairperson.

Re sale re ntse re lela ka yone, e tshwanetse go lwantshiwa ka gotlhe mme lephata le tshwanetse le lone go nna le seabe se setona.
Re a bona gore corruption Mr Chairperson, e tsaya phekelo e sele mo e leng gore le fa o na le matlo le dikgomo, o ka se ke o bolele gore tota dilo tse o di bone jang.

Re tshwanetse go tlhoafalela mo re go bitsang lifestyle audits.
Tota ke bona gore ke tsone di ka re namolang mo corruption ka gore o tlaa fitlhela motho e le Motlotlegi Makwinja jaana, a na le dilo tse e leng gore le madi a a amogelang kgwedi le kgwedi, le fa go ka bo gotwe o na le dikgomo le dipodi, ga se tse di ka mo dirang gore a tshele botshelo jo a bo tshelang.

Jaanong a lifestyle audit e dirwe mo mongweng le mongwe jaaka re tlatsa forms tse, di salwe morago gore tota se ke se kwadileng, a ke sone.
Gape re tlaabo re fitlha dilo tsa rona re di kwadisa ka bana, tsone tse di tserweng ka borukutlhi.

Jaanong Mr Chairperson, Directorate e a tlhokafala mme fa e le gore e ka nna mo lephateng lefe fela le le tlaa e kgonisang gore e dire tiro ya yone, and complement ba DCEC le Directorate of Intelligence and Security (DIS) go lwantsha tshenyetso-setšhaba e Mr Chairperson.

Tota moo ke bona e se kgang, kgang ke gore re tlhoka gore investigators tsa rona tota di tsenye mabogo, di leke go dira lifestyle audits.
Mongwe le mongwe fela yo go bonalang a belaelwa gore o tshela botshelo jo e leng gore ga bo emiwe nokeng ke tiro e a e berekang ka gore rotlhe re bereka gore re tle re tshele mme ba bangwe… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa tlhaloso foo Mma Makwinja.

MS MAKWINJA: …ba na le dikgwebo tse di ba tshedisang.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Clarification sought.

MS MAKWINJA: Ke a mo neela Mr Chairperson, ka bofefo.

MR CHAIRPERSON: O neetswe rraetsho, amogela.

MR HIKUAMA: On a point of clarification.

Tanki Honourable Makwinja.


Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

It appears you do not have strong or hold strong views on where this Directorate should be placed.

Go raya gore ka mantswe a mangwe, o ka dumalana le ba ba reng, let us say gongwe ka kwa ga o ka ke wa nna le bothata le gone?

MS MAKWINJA: It is neither here nor there Honourable Hikuama, what I am saying ke gore tiro e ba e dirang e botlhokwa thata.
Gore e nna jang, gore a e nna independent mo go DCEC, a e tsenngwa mo teng, tota ga se kgang mo go nna.

Jaanong ke kopa gore ka tsweetswee, ga ke itse gore batlotlegi ba tlaa dumalana le nna gore tota lifestyle audits, ke tsone tota di ka re isang kwa re ka kgonang go lwa le mokaloba o gotweng corruption.

Re a itse gore go na le batho gatwe ba na le dikgomo, dipoo, tota le fa gotwe o berekela madi a a kana kang mo ga Goromente, ga se dilo tse o ka nnang le tsone, hey, mme ba theogetse ba bereka.
Jaanong ke kopa gore lifestyle audit e nne a critical aspect, batho ba ba theogele, ba re tlhotlhomise, gore ntlo e ke e bone jang, ba ye kwa merakeng, ba tlhole mo baneng le mo masikeng a rona.

Bo land board o tlaa fitlhela e le gore motho masika a gagwe otlhe a na le ditsha, wena o sale o apply 15 or 20 years ago, fa o le number 20, ba ntsha leina la gago, ba tsenya la masika a bone.

Ke dilo tse di diregang, Tona Mzwinila mo land boards, dilo tse re di bone.
Jaanong ke tsone corruption, lifestyle audit fa e le gore ngwana wa maabane o tlaabo a fiwa setsha, nna ke sa bolo go kgoba fa ke sa bolo go apply, go tla jang?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O raya mo Pusong ya Domkrag motlotlegi?

MS MAKWINJA: Ga se Puso ya ga Domkrag, ke Puso ya rona rotlhe, re dira Puso fa re le fa mo go rona.

Re tshwanetse go nna re bua boammaaruri ka tshenyetso- setšhaba, e medile dinaka.

Ke a kopa Mr Chairperson, lephata le le botlhokwa fela thata.
E bile ke ema Tona nokeng, re le kopele madi, go okediwe investigators, go dirwe lifestyle audit, corruption e re lwe ka yone ka tse tsotlhe tse re nang le tsone.

Ka a le kalo Mr Chairperson, ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, mme ba go utlwisitse botlhoko ba land board waitse.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Motlotlegi Hikuama kana wena o tsala ya me, tlogela go tshwenya batho ba bangwe, o tshwenye nna fela tsala ya gago.
29 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) a (BOBONONG): Ke MR LUCAS leboga Modulasetilo.

Le nna ke latlhele mo kgannyeng ya Ethics and Integrity Directorate (EID).

Fa ke bua ka yone, ke simolole fela ke re, a re ko re ithuteng mo Africa, gore ke eng a le mo seemong se a leng mo go sone gompieno.
Africa o mo seemong se a leng mo go sone gompieno ka gore baeteledipele ba Africa, bontsi jwa bone fa ba sena go tsena mo maemong a bo President, Minister, Bopalamente le a mangwe, ba dirisa maemo ao, go dirisa ditsa-setšhaba go ikhumisa.

Go supagetse jalo mo mafatsheng a Africa.

O ka bua ka one wa a balolola; Zimbabwe, Angola, Malawi le fa e le gone fa South Africa fa, mo dingwageng tse di sa tswang go feta, le ne le bona seemo seo se diragala.
Seemo se se se ntsi se baeteledipele ba Africa, ba tsenang mo Pusong bontsinyana jwa bone fa gongwe ba le mo tlaleng e e boitshegang, e re fela fa ba sena go tsena mo Pusong, a bo e le gore jaanong ba bona gore ke sone sebaka sa gore ba buletswe sepatšhe sa setšhaba.

Ka go dira jalo, go raya gore babusi ba Africa mo nakong e ntsi, ba dirisa sepatšhe sa setšhaba go godisa itsholelo ya bone.
Motho wa teng o tsena a na le sekotsekara sa ditonki, e tlaa re fa six months a wela, a bo a na le dikoloi tse pedi, fa go setse go wela dingwaga tse pedi jaanong e nna mohumi wa dinaledi.

Go diragala jalo mo Africa.

Se se supagalang thatathata ke gore batho ba e bile o fitlhelang ba humanegisa mafatshe ka go gopela itsholelo gone mo Africa, gantsigantsi ke bo Tautona.
Bo Tautona ba Africa bontsi jwa bone o fitlhela fa go tsena mo dikgannyeng tsa go gopela itsholelo, e le bone ba eteletseng pele, ke gore ba etelela lefatshe, ba bo ba etelela pele go gopela itsholelo.

Bontsi jwa bone, ba bangwe mo mafatsheng a mangwe e a re go ntse go tsweletse, ba bo ba huma go gaisa one mafatshe a ba a eteletseng pele.
Gone moo ka bo gone, go bo go go supegetsa gore tota maAferika le Presidents kgotsa bo Tautona ba teng, gantsinyana ba tshabelelwa ke go tlhoka go boifa go tsenya dinalanyana mo sepatšheng sa setšhaba.

Sone seo se raya gore ee, mme tota re a tlhoka gore re nne le directorate e e tshwanang le yone e ya EID, e jaanong boleng jwa botsamaisi jwa Puso, go raya gore bo tshwanetse bo fetoge, bo tokafale.
Go gantsi mafatshe a Africa a bua ka tsone dikgang tsa ethics and integrity, mme fela fa o tsena mo go reng, a mme ba a diragatsa, ga go diragale.

Bothata jo bo tona ke gore yone EID, o ka ipotsa gore mme tota go tlhopha mang ene motho yo o tlaabong e le ene moeteledipele wa Directorate yone e. Gantsi o tlhophiwa ke bone bo Tautona ba ke buang ka bone 30 gore ke ba ba gopelang itsholelo.
Yone e ya rona e ntse fela jalo EID, ene motho yo o tlaabong a e eteletse pele, Director General (DG), o tlhophiwa ke Tautona, yo moAferika go supagetseng gore bo Tautona ba, ke bone ba ba gopelang itsholelo.

Akanya jaanong o tlhophilwe ke ene Tautona o le DG ya EID.

A mme wa re ene motho yo o o tlhophilweng ke Tautona, a o ka kgona go sala Tautona morago, fa go supafala gore Tautona le ene o inaakantse le tshenyetso-setšhaba?
Go tlile go nna thata ya lentswe gore a sale Tautona morago, ka gore Tautona is the hand that feeds that person.

Go thata ka gore jaanong o go tlhophile, go mo sala morago, go tlhotlhomisa le go batlisisa gore ke eng Tautona a huma ka bofefo jo kanakana, go tlile go nna thata ka gore o tlhophilwe ke ene Tautona yoo.

Gone mo lefatsheng la Botswana, re a bona gore le gone jaanong, re setse morago tsela eo ya gore Tautona ke ene a tlhophang foromane ya EID.
Ka jalo, go raya gore foromane eo, e itse gore Tautona ke ene foromane.

Fa Tautona e le foromane, go raya gore le fa a tswa mo tseleng, go thata tota gore o latedise kgang ya ga Tautona.

O bo o leba le melao e re nang le yone gone mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Kana Tautona fa a santse a le mo setilong, bo Honourable Mthimkhulu, o fitlhela ba ikgantsha ka kgang ya teng, ba ntse ba bua gore kana fa a setse a le mo setilong ga a seke.
Jaanong ke gore le fa o ka mo tlhotlhomisa wa bona gore o tsene ka teaspoon, mme o humela pele, o le DG yo a go tsentseng mo setilong, go thata gore o mo reye o re jaanong go diragala eng Tautona ka gore o a itse gore Tautona kwa bofelong, mo lefatsheng la Botswana, melao ya teng are such that fa a santse a le mo setilong, ga a ka ke a seka.

Gone moo jaanong go re thusa ka eng?


Go thusa ka eng le ene DG le fa a ne a ka beta pelo a re o leka go dira gore a sale Tautona morago, mme Tautona a sa kgone gore a sekisiwe?

Ga go ka ke ga mo thusa ka sepe.

Re bona dikai mo lefatsheng la Botswana, re dira melao e e letlelelang bo Tautona, bone ba Africa ba ba senyang thata ba, e e ba letlelelang gore ba ka kgona to tender.
Maloba re ne re buisana ka molao o mongwe o gotweng ke wa public procurement, re bua fela re gagamaditse difatlhego, gore Tautona o ka tender jaaka mongwe le mongwe.

Fa o simolola o dira fela jalo, o a bo o laletsa tshenyetso-setšhaba go tswa kwa go Tautona.

Tautona le Vice President (VP) ba ka tender jaaka mongwe le mongwe mo tenders tsa Puso, ba ka compete le mongwe le mongwe mo tenders tsa Puso.
Re re gone moo fa go santse go le teng, go raya gore Directorate e re buang ka yone e, ga e ka ke ya nna le mosola gotlhelele ka Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) gore bo Tautona ba tlaa tender, mme e bile fa Tautona a tender kgotsa lesika la gagwe le tender, o ka le direla favour, mme go bo go sena any consequence.
Gone mo re tshwanetse ra go ela tlhoko, gore fa re santse re na le melao e e ntseng jaana, ga re ka ke ra kgona go nna le boleng mo diofising tsa rona tsa baeteledipele.

Re tshwanetse seo ra se itse batho betsho, ra itse gore fa gongwe le rona re ipiletsa bothata, re ipiletsa corruption.

Re laletsa corruption ka go dira melao e e tshwanang le yone e. Go na le molao o mongwe gape o re tshwanetseng re bue ka one.
Fa re bua ka Directorate e, re tshwanetse ra bo re bua gape ka molao wa Freedom of Information.

Re na le lebaka le le ntsi re bua gore go tlaa tshwanelwa ke gore go nne le Freedom of Information law, gore jaanong le tsone dithoto which we declared maloba gone fa… Re ne re bua gore re na le dipodi tse kae, dinku tse kae fela jalo.
Mo go one molao o, re bo re supa gape gore fa mmutla o ka ba wa rotha madi, mongwe a ntsha information ya gore go lebega e kete semangmang o na le dithoto tse di kana, motho yo o ntshang information eo, gatwe o molato fela thata.

Jaanong re tlile go dira jang, re tlile go bereka jang.

Setšhaba se tshwanetse sa itse gore re le baeteledipele ba sone re na le dithoto tse di kae, mme le gone di oketsega ka lebelo le le kae mo dingwageng jaaka re tlaabo re ntse re le baeteledipele jaana.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le gore di tswa kae.

MR LUCAS: Molao o o tshwanetseng gore o dirisiwe ke directorate e, wa re o se ka wa ba wa leka wa ntsha information epe ka ope wa baeteledipele who are listed gore ke bone ba ba tshwanetseng to declare dithoto.
Go raya gore jaanong ga go sa tlhole go na le mosola, ka gore journalists le ba bangwe ba ba neng ba ka re thusa go tlhotlhomisa gore, a mme tota dithoto tse a o tshwanetse a bo a na le tsone ka nako ya gompieno, nnyaa, bao gatwe fa ba ka ba ba leka, madi a a kwa tlase a o ka a lopiwang fa o ka ntsha information e e tsamaelanang le dithoto tsa ga ope fela gone fa, a ka tshwaraP500 000, gongwe dingwaga di le tharo kgotsa di le nne mo toronkong.
Moo go thusa eng, to declare mme disclosure ga e yo, re fitlhile what we have disclosed.

Se re se supileng, se re se kwadileng ke sephiri se se kwa godimo fela thata.

Moo ka bogone go a tshwenya batho betsho.

Go tshwenya gape ka gore, bangwe ba babusi ba rona jaanong ba humisiwa gape ke gore ba neelwa dimpho.

BoTautona ba Africa, bathusi ba bone le Ministers, ke bathonyana ba ba tshabelelwang ke go fiwa dimpho tse o bonang gore ke tsa go reka sengwe mo babusing.
Le fa ba sena go fiwa dimpho tseo, directorate e ga ke itse gore a e ka kgona go ba latela sentle ya ba raya ya re kana o filwe dimpho tse, dimpho tse ke tse di dirang gore di go influence gore tshenyetso-setšhaba e ka tswelela pele ka fa tlase ga gago.

Go teng, go diragetse mo lefatsheng la Botswana, mo re neng re utlwa Director wa kwa Choppies a bua gore ke file moeteledipele madi e le mpho a a kana ka P2 million.
Re utlwa kwa National Petroleum Fund (NPF), gotwe babusi ba filwe madi, a mangwe e le a to campaign.

Gone moo ka bogone... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wa re o filwe bokae Comrade, P2 million?

MR LUCAS: Go ne gotwe P2 million, o raya gore motho o ka go fa P2 million?

Fa o tswa kwa Sefhare- Ramokgonami o filwe P2 million, ke gore nnyaa, le tiro o a e tlogela.
Jaanong bona fela se se dirang, go fiwa... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ee, gakere go tshwana fela le Benz, jaaka Muti le ene a neetse Keorapetse Benz, a ga go tshwane fela?

MR LUCAS: Wa re go rileng?

Directorate e, a mme dikgang tse e di neelwang tse, e kgona go di sala morago mo go tlhwaafetseng, mme Director wa yone o tlhophilwe ke ene Tautona?

Se ke batlang go se bua kwa bofelong ke gore, ga e ka ke ya nna le mosola o o kalo.
E tlaa nna asset register, mme bontsi jwa tse e di kwadisang, tse dingwe e tlaabo e di tlogela kwa ntle, ka gore Tautona ke ene a tlhomang moeteledipele.

Ga ke bone a ka nna le guts tsa gore a sale Tautona morago, mme boTautona ba Africa ke bone ba ba senyang mafatshe a bone ka go gopela itsholelo, ba tsena ba humanegile, ba tswa ba humile mo go sisimosang mmele.
Moo ka bogone re tshwanetse re go ele tlhoko, gape ra baakanya melao ya rona, ra nna le Freedom of Information law, gore those that we declared as baeteledipele, Batswana ba kgone go itse gore re na le eng.

Go botlhokwa fela thata.

Fa Batswana ba sa itse, molao o ga o ka ke wa tlhola o bereka, directorate ga e ka ke ya bereka.

Ke a leboga.

MR KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.
Ke tlaa simolola fela ka to quote Manifesto wa Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) mo Chapter ya Governance, Anti-Corruption and Human Rights mo Page 19.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Do quote Honourable Member.

31 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR KEORAPETSE: “Nations prosper or fail on account of how they are led and governed.
Experiences of successful nations teaches us that for a nation to develop and prosper, it must have two things at a minimal; (i) ethical, competent, transparent and farsighted leadership, (ii) good governance, manifest good laws, good policies and good institutions.

Neither of the above conditions exist in Botswana today, but this combination is what makes Singapore and Japan what they are today.
Both started with little by way of resources except for their people, but today they are beacons of development success.

When a nation has good leadership and good governance, everything falls into place, the nation can dream big and realise its dreams.” Mr Chairperson, re debate budget ya Ethics and Integrity Directorate.
Ethics and Integrity Directorate go ya ka bone fa ba kwadile mo maranyaneng, ba supa gore it monitors the interest income, assets and liabilities of those persons for the purposes of preventing and detecting corruption, money-laundering and the acquisition of property from proceeds of any other offence, and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto.
Mr Chairperson, ke tlaa simolola ka mafoko a a neng a buiwa ke Honourable Kapinga gore, lephata le… I think what we did Honourable Mthimkhulu, ga re go kgale Mongwato, re a gakolola gore tota lephata le o kare it was an overkill, ka go dira a fully-fledged office e e eteletsweng ke motho wa level ya Director General at Permanent Secretary level.

Kana go raya gore go ya nna le Deputy Permanent Secretaries, Directors le offices tse dingwe ka go farologana.
Jaanong tota lephata le, tumelo ya me fela jaaka Honourable Kapinga ke gore, I think in re-aligning ministries le maphata le setse morago yone RESET Agenda, sekasekang go bona gore a le ka se ke le nne subsumed under DCEC.

Ke ikamanya le mabaka a ga Honourable Kapinga, because I feel it is an unnecessary cost and duplication of efforts.
Fa o bua ka ethics and integrity, I worked at the DCEC, fa o ya kwa Lephateng la Corruption Prevention, kgang e ya ethics and integrity, ke yone e lephata le kana the prong ya Corruption Prevention.

E ikaegile thata ka moono oo.

Jaanong Mr Chairperson, fa o lebeletse Ethics and Integrity Directorate, you get the impression ya gore it is a directorate which will be dealing with issues of ethics and integrity at a broader level.
Tota fela boammaaruri ke gore mandate wa teng, is restricted to asset declaration and asset interest and liabilities.

Fa o lebelela mo, go raya gore you have essentially created a fully-fledged department e responsibility ya yone e leng to register.

I do not think it is prudent management of economic resources, a re e lebeng thata.
Jaaka ke akanya gore o tlaabo o dira duplication, unless o re, mandate wa yone o a o broaden to cover more corporate governance issues in both the public and the private sector especially State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs) and parastatals, to ensure that there is alignment to Government policy and agenda.

Ke buisiwa kgang e ke gore, fa o lebelela there are general problems tsa corporate governance when it comes to SOEs.
Dingwe tsa tsone are running at losses, ga di hire sentle fela di tlhamaletse di lebeletse corporate governance issues, when you look at their procurement, go na le mathata a procurement.

Dingwe tsa tsone tse di tshwanang le Railways, bontsi jwa borakgwebo ba ke kopanang le bone who do business le Railways, ba nna fela ba kolotiwa ke Railways.

There are corporate governance issues tse dintsintsi kwa makaleng a a tshwanang le Railways.
Mafoko a a neng a buiwa ke Honourable Lucas, Acting Leader of the Opposition (LOO), a gore kana gompieno go na le Ethics and Integrity Directorate.

Yes, we are saying gongwe subsume it under DCEC, but at the moment, le yone o bona gore e mo seporong sele fela se e leng template ya Domkrag, the tick the box mentality.
Ya gore e re fa President a bua (address) kwa UN, AU kana kwa go bape fela kwa mafatsheng, a bo a bua gore nnyaa re na le Ethics and Integrity Directorate, Ombudsman, Auditor General, DCEC le Independent Electoral Commission (IEC) while in actual fact, maphata a ka fa tlase ga taolo le tlhokomelo ya Ofisi ya ga Tautona, a sa ikemela ka nosi.

Re buile gangwe le gape gore, fa o lebelela the Chapter 9 institutions tse di mo Molaomotheong wa lefatshe la Aferika Borwa, o di fa independence.
Go botlhokwa gore makalana a a tshwanang le one... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.

MR KEORAPETSE: I do not have much time.

I think you will be able to debate, because I see your name on the list... 32 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke nna tlhe Sticks.

MR KEORAPETSE: With the greatest of respect honourable.
Let me make this point ya gore, most of these institutions are not creatures of the parent legislation which is the Constitution.

A re lekeng ka bojotlhe gore maphata a, a tsene mo Molaomotheong a fiwe seriti, nonofo le ditlamelo.

A tswe ka fa tlase ga Ofisi ya ga Tautona.

Ke Ombudsman e re nnang re lela ka yone, Auditor General, DCEC, IEC, letsatsi leno ke Ethics and Integrity Directorate.
Appointment of ba ba eteletseng maphata a, go dirwe ka tsela e go tlaa se ke go belaetse gore ba gogela kobo ka fa letlhakoreng lengwe.

Go se ka ga nna bonolo gore batho ba teng ba ntshiwe mo ofising.

Security of tenure is very, very important fa go tla mo maphateng a e leng gore are supporting democracy like Ethics and Integrity Directorate, Ombudsman, Auditor General, DCEC Director General and IEC.
Re a tle re fe sekai ka DCEC gore mo dingwageng tse tharo Tautona Masisi e le President, go setse go nnile le Director Generals tsa DCEC ba le bararo; Rre Paledi, Rre Matambo gompieno ke Rre Tymon Katlholo, mme o foo ke fano.
Re setse re amogetse dipego tsa gore go belaesega gore those who were supposed to be transferred kwa DCEC ba maemo a a kwa godimo, go akaretswa ba ba mo ranks tsa Deputy Permanent Secretaries, Directors le ba bangwe, they are going to be either transferred or their contracts are not going to be renewed.

We have that intelligence.

We also have the intelligence ya gore, it is highly likely that Rre Tymon Katlholo contract ya gagwe ga e ka ke ya shafadiwa.

Ke dikgang tse re di amogelang.


Fa go ne go na le security of tenure, re ka bo re itse gore fa o le Director General wa DCEC kana wa Ethics and Integrity Directorate, you cannot be easily removed by the President.

Go tshwanetse go nne le tenurial security ya maphata one a because ba ba tlhotlhomisang, ke bone ba e leng gore they can be transferred.

Fa o tsaya for instance; Permanent Secretary to the President (PSP) can transfer Deputy Permanent Secretary, Directors le ba maemo a mangwe.
Gongwe Permanent Secretaries (PS) bone yes, they are appointed by the President but the point I am making ke gore, a go se ka gare lephata le tshwana le Ethics and Integrity Directorate e bo e re o tsoga maphakela, Director of Directorate of Public Service Management (DPSM) a bo a re, I am transferring some officers kwa Ethics and Integrity Directorate ke ba isa kwa Lephateng la Local Government.
Re bone Eugene Wasetso a ntshiwa kwa DCEC a le fa gare ga go tlhotlhomisa a case that involved PSP, a bo a isiwa kwa Ministry of Health.

Yo mongwe a bo a posetswa kwa Francistown, gotwe wena tsamaya o ya kwa Francistown.

Maabane jaana ba bangwe go ne gotwe they are going to be transferred kwa DCEC ba isiwa kwa maphateng a mangwe, ba le fa gare ga go tlhotlhomisa cases tse di serious tsa corruption.
Jaanong Ethics and Integrity Directorate le yone, e ka bo e rile fa e dirwa, and go santse go ka dirwa gore go netefatswe gore lephata le as I have indicated, a le ye kwa DCEC.

E re le le kwa DCEC, le nne ka fa tlase ga tshireletso ya gore ba ba berekang mo go lone, ba bereke ka tshosologo.

Ba itse gore they cannot be transferred at the whims and caprices of the PSP, DPSM kana motho ope fela.

Modulasetilo, a ba neelwe madi.


Ke office ba setse ba le established but Honourable Mthimkhulu and Honourable Morwaeng, I plead with you, go and consider our suggestions tsa gore this Ethics and Integrity Directorate, it is overarching, we cannot a fully-fledged department ya ga Goromente e le gore sa yone fela ke to monitor register.

A lephata le le ya kwa DCEC, le nne ka fa tlase ga Director General wa DCEC.

Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

MR MAJAGA (NATA-GWETA): Thank you Mr Chairperson.


Mr Chairperson, jaaka Batlotlegi Mapalamente bangwe ba setse ba buile ka kopo ya lephata le, ke supe fa ke ema nokeng kopo ya ga Tona Mthimkhulu e a e beileng fa pele ga Palamente.

Ke mo ema nokeng gore a fiwe madi ao.

Ke na le dintlha tsa mafoko; Tona, lephata le le sha, tlhaloganya maikemisetso a lone gore ke eng le nnile teng.

Party e e busang ya BDP e ne ya dira jalo e leka go sireletsa mapolotiki le bangwe ba dikgwebo to declare.
E re fa o itiretse kana o sena seo nang le sone jaaka rona, o bo o salwa morago ka dikgomo tsa gago tse tharo.

Ke bona e le sengwe se se tona thata se se akantsweng gore go se ka ga nna go buiwa fela ka declaration of assets.

Lephata le nne teng, le diragatse dilo tse di amanang le corruption le dikhumo tse dintsintsi tse batho ba sa itseng gore di tswa kae, after sebaka se se kae.

Lephata le, jaaka bangwe ba bua, go lejwe gore le ka tsena mo go mangwe maphata.
Re se ka ra nna le maphata a mantsintsi a e leng gore a ya go batla staff se se ntsintsi mo dinakong tse di thata tsa go tlhoka ditlhabololo, go tlhoka madi because of COVID.

E bo e le gore staff complement sa lephata le, se a go felela se nna like lengwe la maphata a a santseng a tlhoka staff jaaka Ombudsman.
Ka boeteledipele jwa gago Rraetsho Morwaeng le bathusi ba gago, le batle 33 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) technocrats to help formation ya maphata.

Ba le leba gore it can be aligned le bafe, ba Ombudsman kana DCEC, I do not have any problem.

Le tle le nne le staff complement se se ka tlalang lefatshe le.
Mr Chairperson, re na le mathata, as we speak, lephata le jaaka re itse e le tiro ya rona as legislators go bolelela batho kwa mafelong a re leng mo go one, go supega go santse go le gontsi gore Batswana ba le itse gore ke le le sireletsang.

Le sireletsa nna le wena, le mongwe le mongwe segolo jang badiredi ba Puso ba maemo le ba e seng ba maemo.

Malatsi a fa o lebelela corruption, e dirwa ke middle managers.
Ke bone ba tenders ba e leng gore motho o amogela P6 000 fa o ya kwa Gaborone North kwa, o aga matlo a bo P4.2 million e e leng gore Mopalamente o swa a sa e dira.

Jaanong fa go ntse go tsamaya, le tshwanetse le atolosiwe.

Those who declare ba ba mo tenders le dirwe, so that they declare.

Staff se nne teng gore mandate wa lephata o nne sentle.
Mr Chairperson, I support mme ke na le mafoko; re na le tshono gompieno ya to review our Constitution as legislators gore maphata a a tshwanang le a, a ka tokafadiwa jang.

Minister Mthimkhulu, I suggest gore going forward, ga re ka ke ra re se se neng se re berekela those years, re ise re tlhabologe thata, re ise re nne le borukutlhi kana dikitso tse di rileng, ra se tshwaya phoso.
Se re ka se dirang ke gore, jaaka re baakanya Molaomotheo, High Court Judges le maphata a a tshwanang le a, their tenure of office ya bo Director General, ba na le ka fa ba ka hirwang ka teng.

They can have a blessing ya relevant committee of Parliament, e ka tsaya seabe, ba ka kwala interviews, ga nna le some names submitted until the final appointment so that go nna le scrutiny se se lebaneng.

Ke sengwe se se tshwanetseng se dirwe Honourable Mthimkhulu.
Re tle re dire good governance and proper structuring ya maphata a. Honourable Minister, go nnile le COVID, a re tsweleleng re oketse bodiredi jwa lephata le gore ba tle ba kgone go ka dira these pending registration e e dirwang.

Mo gongwe e ne e le dilonyana tse di nnyennyane gore batho ba kgone gore ba kwadise ba bo ba busiwa.

Go tshwana le one a a kwadisang trusts le foundations.

Ke tlaa supa fela ka lone as an example.


Batho ba tshwanetse ba fiwe nako go itsiwe gore go na le Batswana ba ba kwa Manxotai, Sepako, Tshwaane, Malelejwe le ba ba kae fela kwa bo Dukwi ba le bone ba ka tswang ba amega gore ba ka declare gongwe e le senior Government officials.
O fitlhela e le gore ka fa le dirilweng ka teng re bo re nna le bo COVID Honourable Mthimkhulu, give Batswana a lay way and time looking at what happens gore Motswana yo o tlaabong a le kwa Gweta, Tsokatshaa, Zoroga, Lepashe le Manxotai ba kgone gore le bone ba dire this exercise.
Go ka nna botlhoko e re ke dule mo Palamenteng Honourable Minister Mthimkhulu, go bo gotwe ga ke a declare kana e le e senior Government official a le mo retirement fa gongwe a setse a ya go sekisiwa go tsewa le yone potsane ya bofelo mme e le gore tota o ka bo a dirile.

Goromente o a re sireletsa to declare, e se ka ya re kamoso re le bahumi ba dinaledi kana re sena se re nang sone e bo e le gore gongwe go na le sengwe.
Tswelelang le baakanye lephata le, le tlale le Botswana, re bone bo next year fa o kopa madi e bo e le gore le nna le three offices.

Batho ba kwadise gore supa gore tota ga re batle tshenyetso- setšhaba, re batla maphata a a gola le Batswana ba a itse.

Le lone le nne le some slots for education le go leka gore Batswana ba tlhaloganye gore this thing is mandatory, ga e a tshwanela gore gongwe o nne o reng.
Le bone ba ke neng ke ba bua these other junior managers who appraise those tenders, please a go baakanngwe some Clauses and hook them in to declare because re bona se se diragalang.

Re baakanya ka fa, ka fa go nna le other loopholes.

I thank you Mr Chairperson.

Re itse botlhokwa jwa one le gore ke maphata a a dirang ditiro tse di sensitive and good for our great Republic.
E re re ntse re bokiwa kana bangwe batla to benchmark, e bo re itse gore jaaka bangwe Mapalamente ba ne ba gakolola, tota we have polished all the necessary things.

Di tsamaelana le the 21st Century development ya maphata le world class choices of how we employ certain caliber of high positioned people mo maphateng a a tshwanang le one a, le bo High Court Judge.

Committees are very important go balelwa le ya Palamente.
E a bo e se gore e a hira, e a bo e le in the process gore go nne le process e e lebanyeng.

MR LEUWE (TAKATOKWANE): Thank you Mr Chairperson, I would not be long, I will save you time le nna ke a dumela.

Ke supe fela gore ke dumalana le kopo ya ga Tona, bogolo jang ka lephata le lešha.

Ke lephata fela le le nonofileng le e bileng le dirilwe go na le maikaelelo e bile go na le sengwe se se patikang gore le dirwe fela jaaka maphata a mangwe a ne a ntse a dirwa.
Jaanong ke ntse ke tlatsa Tona, ke eletsa gore ke supe gore mme a e se ka ya re go ntse go tswelela ra le bona le wela ka lehuti le re bonang maphata a dirwa go nonofile re bona gore a ya go dira tiro, e bo e re go ntse go tsweletse re bo re bona maphata a simolotse go 34 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) itebaganya le dilo di sele.
Last time fa go dirwa DCEC, mongwe le mongwe o ne a solofetse gore go tlaa nna le tlhamalalo e e ropameng e e supang gore re ya go lwantsha corruption ka mabetwaepelo.

Re simolotse re nna le tsholofelo re bona le le koo re solofela gore bontsi jwa corruption e gone koo.

E rile la bofelo ke re bona jaanong e bile le setse le tsaya ditiro tsa sepodise, o a ne o utlwa gotwe ba ile go sekisa modirelapuso o utswile cylinder.
Ke gore o bona gore tota se se neng se direlwa lephata le jaanong se feletswe ke boleng mme e bile le ile kwa sepodiseng.

Sepodise sa rona se nonofile se kgona sengwe le sengwe.

A e re le re le dirang gompieno le re le lebaganye le se le lebaganang le sone.

E bile le lebagane le sone fela le sa lebelela gore mang ke mang.

Batswana ba re fa o huhumela molao, o go kgaola tlhogo, fa o o tlola, o go kgaola maoto.

Go tewa motho mongwe le mongwe yo o tlaabong a tlola molao.
A re se ka ra bona jaanong le tla go fologela kwa tlase le ya go taboga kwa e seng gone kwa le neng le go direlwa kwa re tsayang gore koo go gonnye go nale jaaka re ne re dira lephata le.

Ga ke farologane thata le bakaulengwe fa ba re gongwe e ka bo le nnile unit nngwe gongwe mo bo DCEC kana fa re neng re ka bona le ka tsena teng.
Ke dumela gore jaaka e le lephata ka bolone le ikemetse le le nosi, jaaka go na le Director ya lone, go nna botoka thata go nale fa e le unit e le ka fa tlase ga Director yo go fitlhelwang a ntse a na le units tse dintsi.

Sekai fela ke gore re na le Lephata la Tribal Administration le le tsereng lebaka le sena Director.

E bile re na le dingongora tsa gore fa Directors ba maphata a mangwe ba kopane, Tribal Administration yone e emetswe ke mang ka level ya bo Director?
Ke sone se gongwe o tlaa fitlhelang kwa Tribal Administration dikgang tsa teng di le bokete di le botlhoko, re eletsa gore re le bone e na le Director and we are happy now because lephata leo le na le Director.

Tumelo ya me ke gore jaaka le ikemela ka nosi le na le Director wa lona jaana, ke gone gongwe e ka reng le simolola la dira tiro fela ka botlalo le se unit e e nnyennyane ka fa tlase ga lephata le le ntseng le le teng.
Mo botshelong fela fa o na le bana, o tlaa fitlhela go na le yo o mo fang sengwenyana se se golwane go feta yo mongwe ka mabaka a a itsiweng ke wena.

Ke dumela fa le ntse jaana ke gone le ka berekang botoka thata.

Se ke se kopang mo lephateng le ke gore a le ye go dira tiro ka botlalo, le se ka la bo la ya go dira se e seng sone.

Fa ke reng gape ke a ne ke dumalana le bakaulengwe teng, gongwe ke ka fa Director a tsenang ka teng mo ofising.

Mo gongwe go batla re ela tlhoko.


Tota fela jaaka Honourable Majaga a sa tswa go bua, ke dumela gore dikomiti tsa Palamente di tshwanetse go neelwa boikarabelo jo bo nonofileng jwa go tsaya ditshwetso.

Kana fa o tsaya tshwetso o le nosi, go farologana le fa batho ba tsaya tshwetso ba le bantsi.

Fa le tsaya tshwetso le le bantsi le a farologana mme kwa bofelong le bo le kopana le dumalana ka tshwetso ya teng.
Fa o tsaya tshwetso o le nosi, fa e le gore e wrong o etse ruri go wrong, ga gona ope gongwe yo o tlaa go gakololang.

Ke ne ke eletsa gore gongwe dikomiti tse tsa Palamente, e e lebaganyeng gongwe e nne e nna le seabe thata.

E nne le input fela e ntsi gore tota ofisi eo e tsenwa ke mang, jang, go tsamaile jang?

Gongwe go bo go nne le records fela tse di supang gore lebaka la gore go bo go tserwe semangmang go sa tsewa semangmang, re ne re lebile 1, 2, 3.
Ke sone se ke neng ke re ke se akgele mo lephateng le lešha le.

Ke bo ke re Tona, fela jaaka ke bua, ke go ema nokeng fela jaaka Honourable Keorapetse a bua gore tota ka e setse e… MR LUCAS: Clarification.

Gompieno ke ne ke re ke go eme nokeng Honourable Leuwe.

O buile boammaaruri fa o supa gore Director General a bo a tlhophiwa ke motho a le mongwefela, ga go a lebana.

Go batla e kete dikomiti tse e ka bo e le tsone tse di ka bong di dira tiro e ntle thata.

Ke go lebogela mafoko ao rraetsho.


Thank you very much.

MR LEUWE: Thank you Mr Chairperson, thank you Honourable Lucas, pula e tlaa na ka diapole.

Ke raya gore gone ga go maswe.

Ke ne ke akanya jalo gore fa batho ba tsaya ditshwetso ba le palo, go farologana le fa o e tsaya o le nosi.

Kana tota boammaaruri jwa lephata le ga se go sireletsa Leuwe le Honourable Hikuama fela, ke go sireletsa dithoto tsa Batswana.

Go tsaya tshwetso motho a le nosi mo dithotong tsa Batswana o kare go questionable.
Fa e le ditshwetso tsa batho ba le bane, ba le batlhano, ke dumela gore gongwe go ka re berekela sentle.

E ka re le fa mongwe a e bua ba bantsi ba tlhalosa gore, rona re ne re lebile mabaka a gore le gore.

Ke ne ke solofeditse gore ke tlaa go tlogelela nako Modulasetilo gore ba bangwe ba tle ba nne le phatlhanyana.
Fela ka mabaka a ke neng ke sa tswa go bua gore… Honourable Keorapetse o ne a tlhalositse gore tota ka e setse e le lephata, re go rebolela madi ao mme a e re le ntse le tsweletse le gola go sekasekwe mabaka a re sa tswang go a ntsha re a bua gore a ga go ka ke ga re berekela botoka thata fa re ka dirisa mabaka a teng.

35 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.
Ke eleletsa bagaetsho ba ba emeletseng ba ya go batlela motlogolo mosadi mosepele o o atlegileng kwa Tutume.

Ba tlaa boa, pula e tlaa ba nela tseleng.

Ba tlaa goroga ka ngwetsi.

Ke a leboga.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Is that part of the Bill before the table, Honourable Leuwe?

MR LEUWE: Just a matter of polishing Mr Chairperson, sorry for that.

Mme bone ke ba eleletsa katlego.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you sir.

MR MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.
Gongwe ke simolole fela ka go supa kana go tsena fela mo kgannyeng ya appointment, e tota fela re tlileng go nna le mathata a a seng kana ka sepe.

Kgang e ya appointments tse di dirwang ke bo Head of State re batla gore re di kgale, ka tota re setse re lemoga mo lefatsheng la Botswana gore golo mo go tlile go re bakela mathata a a seng kana ka sepe.

Re tlhoka gore re senke ditsela tse di tlhamaletseng tse e leng gore ba ba tsayang maemo a a rileng ba se ka ba hirwa ke Tautona.
Ba hirwe ke tsamaiso nngwe e e ka lebegang e na le puso ya batho ka batho, e ka tswa e le komiti e e tlhophilweng ke Palamente kana e le tsela epe fela e tota e ka supang fa e le gore golo fa motho yo o ka ipona e le gore tiro ya gagwe ke yone tota e e leng gore he or she accounts to the nation and he or she does not owe any allegiance to semangmang, especially motho wa maemo a ga Tautona.
Mr Chairperson, re a tshwenyega ka gore gompieno o kgona go bona gore batho ba ba a bong ba hirilwe ke Tautona, tota ka boammaaruri ga ba bereke setšhaba jaanong, ba bereka Tautona.

Gongwe ke ka go fa sekai ka dilo tse di diragalang mo nakong ya gompieno ka Director General wa DIS, yo gompieno ene le DIS ya gagwe ka gore they were appointed by Tautona, o bereka Tautona fela le ba e leng gore Tautona ga a ba batle.
Ke gore o kgona go bona gore letsatsi le letsatsi maikaelelo a ga Tautona a a bonagala, ka gore o a bona fa e le gore re mo seemong se e leng gore mongwe le mongwe yo Tautona a sa mmatleng gompieno o salwa morago ke DIS.

Golo mo go dirwa ke yone appointment, gore this man is owing or he owes allegiance to the President.
Jaanong go dira gore re le Palamente re bone re tshwenyega ka go letlelela maphata gore e bo e le gore bagogi ba one ba hirwa ke Tautona, ka gore Tautona ke motho wa nama le madi, yo o ka tenegang, a swelela, a tshwara ka pelo, jaaka o bona wa gompieno a dira.

Jaanong tota ga ke itse gore re ka dira jang.

Mo Palamenteng ya bolesome e ke neng ke le mo go yone, le ya bolesome le motso, ke buile thata ka kgang e ya gore batho be appointed by Tautona.
Ke buile thata ka gore batho be appointed by Ministers, ke supa gore you know a process e e tsenyang batho ba le bantsinyana in appointing motho is the preferred method o tota re tshwanelwang ke go o sala morago.

Tsamaiso e go dirang motho a le mongwefela e nna le mathata a re a bonang.
I will not be surprised gore e re kwa bofelong re iphitlhele e le gore Director General wa this commission a itse gore o hirilwe ke Tautona, e bo e le gore Tautona o mo dirisa gore jaanong e bo e le ene yo gotweng, Mpho Balopi ke yo ka ga re sa tlhole re mmatla, go raya gore mo saleng morago le mo tlhotlhomise.

Rre Matsheka ke yo ka gore ga re sa tlhole re mmatla, mo sale morago le mo senkele sengwe… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wena o tsena jang mo dilong tseo?
MR MMOLOTSI: Mme Unity Dow ke yo… MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Mmolotsi, I think much as there is a side remark saying, “wena o tsena jang mo dilong tseo”, you must take cognizance of it because of Standing Order 57.6.

MR MMOLOTSI: Ya reng?

MR CHAIRPERSON: You know what it says.

Please carry on Honourable Mmolotsi.

MR MMOLOTSI: Mr Chairperson, ke fa ke ka bo ke ne ke bua ka batho ba ba kwa ntle ga Palamente.

Ke bua ka batho ba ba mo Palamenteng, ba e leng gore fa ba ngongorega ba tlaa ipuelela.
Ke gore I am trying to show you Mr Chairperson gore… HONOURABLE MEMBER: O rata go losa Mmolotsi.

O rata go losa.

MR MMOLOTSI:…o kgona go bona le mo malatsing a fetileng, le mo dikgweding tse di fetileng ka fa melao ya Palamente e dirwang ka teng, o kgona go bona gore ke melao e e dirwang e lebagane le gore re ya go swelela bo mang ka yone.
Maloba re ne re utlwa Mothusa Tautona mo Palamenteng go diriwa molao wa Extradition a tlhalosa gore re dire molao o re o fetise e tle batho ba ye go sukunyololwa, ba ye go tsewa kwa ba leng teng.
Rona re tsaya gore gongwe molao o o direlwa the future, gore go tle go bonwe gore 36 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) go ka dirwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang, kante batho at the back of their minds ba dira molao o maikaelelo a bone e le go ya go swelela batho.

Nna ga ke batle molao o o swelelang.


Rre Mogae… HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR MMOLOTSI: Kana ke tlhodiiwa ke motho ke yo ga ke tlhaloganye gore o batla gore ke mo reye ke reng.

Ke kopa gore o kgalemelele Tona yo o a itse!

Rre Mogae o kile a bua a santse a le Tautona gore, “e re fa le ngadile le se ka la dira melao ka gore le tlaa dira melao e e ngadile.
Fa le itumetse le se ka la dira melao ka gore le tlaa dira melao e e itumetseng thata, e bo e le gore go nna laissez-faire.” Jaanong ka tsela e e ntseng jalo ke kgona go bona gore melao e re e dirang gompieno ke e e tenegileng, e maikaelelo a yone e leng gore bangwe batho ba tshwerwe ka dipelo, ba ka felela ba sweletswe.

Batho bangwe ba ba batliwang ba direlwa melao e e ka kgonang gore ba ye go tshwarwa ka yone.
Ke lantlha re bona Goromente yo o dirang melao ya ditontonkwane le ditshele, e maikaelelo a yone e leng go ya go tshwara bangwe, le go sotla bangwe.

Golo mo fa re sa go bue re ya go iphitlhela re le mo mathateng.

Gompieno e ne ya re ka nako e re neng re tswa kwa go yone re bua ka DIS gore lephata le tsamaiso ya lone ga le a siama, nako ya teng go ne gotwe go raya gore you are criminals, le a itshaba ka gore go raya gore you are criminals.

Bona gore gompieno DIS e dirang.


E dira ba ba neng ba le mo setilong ka nako ya teng.

Ba ba neng ba dumela gore fa re ngongorega ka molao o we are criminals.

Ba ba leng mo teng gompieno ba ba dirisang molao o ba itumetse, bo Honourable Mthimkhulu le Honourable Kabo Morwaeng ba ba reng, fa batho ba ngongorega go raya gore they are criminals, their time is coming and it is fast approaching.
Ba itse gore ga ba busetse ruri and ke yone melao e ba tlaabong ba araba mo go yone, e le gore go tsere yo mongwe moeteledipele yo o swele.

Yo o tlaabong jaanong a batla gore a ba bontshe gore go supula fa fatshe go ntse ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Tota fela Mr Chairperson, ke ngwana wa Motswana.

Ke mo lefatsheng la Botswana le ke le eleletsang gore tota melao ya rona e ka bo e siama, e nna e e ka tsweledisang kagiso e re tswang kgakala re tshela ka yone.
E ka nna melao e e dirwang ke batho ba ba ikaelelang go bopa lefatshe ka yone.

Palamente e e tshwanelwa ke go dira melao e e leng gore… Honourable MR HIKUAMA: Chairperson.

Ke a leboga Honourable Chairperson.

Ke a leboga Honourable Mmolotsi.

O raya gore melao e Clarification ka fa o e lebileng ka teng e dirwa fela kana e dirisetswa gone to prove gore ke na le power ke ka go tsenya mo toronkong o bone gore ke na le masheta go le kae?
Ga se gore ke melao e e diritsweng gore e lebelele seemo ka bophara le go leka go lwantsha corruption ka nnete, ke go leka go supa fela gore ke na le maatla, ke ka tshwara motho.

MR MMOLOTSI: Ee rra, ke sone se ke se buang gore, tota fela a re sekeng ra bona o kare go a re siamela go dira melao e maikaelelo a yone e leng to target bangwe, go swelela bangwe, ka gore go dira jalo go kopakopanya kagiso ya lefatshe la Botswana.
Gompieno jaana fa o tsaya Director General wa DIS, a bo a ya go tsaya Commissioner of Police a ya go mo dira jaaka ba mo dira gotwe, ga go itsiwe le kwa a leng teng.

Kana kamoso go ya go tsewa Commander wa Botswana Defence Force (BDF) a ya go dirwa ka fa a dirwang ka teng, a dirwa ke motho a le mongwefela, Director General wa DIS, a romilwe ke Tautona wa lefatshe lone le.

A mme le bona e le gore lefatshe la rona le tlaa tswelela ka kagiso fa go ntse ka fa go ntseng ka teng?
Tota bagaetsho le lona maDomkrag ke batla go bua le lona ke le tlhamaleleditse gore, fa e le gore golo mo go dirwang ke Tautona Masisi le Rre Magosi ke golo mo le go letlelelang, itseng gore nako ya lona e etla, e le tlileng go supola ka fa tlase ga mathata… MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Mmolotsi, ke go kgalema la bofelo, Rre Magosi ga a yo mo Palamenteng.
Standing Order 57.6, ke kile ka nna ka go gakolola kgantele gore ga se letlelele gore motho yo a seyong fa, e bile maina a bone ga a tshwanela a tladikiwe jaaka o sa bolo go mo tladika o simolola o mo tshwaraganya le Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tautona.

Please Honourable Mmolotsi, I am pleading with you.

You are an old Member of Parliament (MP), be professional.

Please, comply with Standing Order 58.11.

Take your floor Honourable Mmolotsi.


MR MMOLOTSI: Mr Chairperson, I am an old MP, ke sone se ke utlwang botlhoko ka gore ke mo Palamenteng e ke bonang e le gore ke yone e tlileng go nyeletsa kagiso ya lefatshe la Botswana.

Ke mo Palamenteng e e leng gore ke yone e e dirang melao ya swele, e e dirwang batho ba ikgatlha.

O bona gore batho ba ikgatlhela go dira melao gore ba ye go tshwara ba bangwe le go ipusolosetsa.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mme ga o bue sentle Mmolotsi.


37 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR MMOLOTSI: Ke batla gore ke ba bolelele ke ba tlhagise, le ene yo o ntseng a re ga o bue sentle, yo o zametsweng bo Assistant Minister bo sa mo lekana.

Ke bua le bone ke ba raya ke re le tlile go itshola ka nako nngwe e le gore dilo tse di dirwa mo go lona.

Se le se dirang ba bangwe, itseng gore se tlaa le diragalela.
Ke utlwa botlhoko gore Commissioner of Police a bo a le mo letsatsing la bone a ntse a sukurwa, and ke a itse gore ga go felele foo.

Go ya go tsena kwa go ba bo Commanders le Commissioners ba bangwe ka lebaka la gore batho bao ba tlhomilwe ke Tautona wa pele yo o sa batliweng mme kana ga go berekiwe ka tsela e e ntseng jalo bagaetsho.

Fa re batla Botswana e nna lefatshe la kagiso le re le tlwaetseng, a re dumeleng gore badirelapuso ke badirelapuso.
A re se keng ra lwa dintwa tsa rona re dirisa badirelapuso ba ba tswang kgakala ba tshegeditse lefatshe lone le.

Mo re go bonang go diragala mo ke batho ba lwa ka badirelapuso ba ntse ba itse… ba bangwe ba ne ba le teng fa sengwe le sengwe se diragala, ba ne ba le bathusi ka nako ya teng mme e le gore jaanong ba tsweletse ka go batla gore ba… MR CHAIRPERSON: Your time is up.

MR MMOLOTSI: Mr Chairperson, kana le wena ke gore o ntsene ganong thata; o ntseetse two minutes.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Your time is up.


Thank you Honourable Mmolotsi.

Honourable Minister, it is quite a small chapter.

Ke kopa gore when you respond, be as brief as you possibly can ka fa ke go itseng ka teng …(Interruptions)… Iketleng pele tlhe bagaetsho, just switch off your phones.

Who is that?

Stop interrupting with our systems.

Honourable Mthimkhulu, o ntshiele nako e e bonalang ngwana wa bomme ke a go rapela, ke batla go theogela.

I want to finish this work long before 6 o’clock.


Please Honourable Mthimkhulu.

ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC (MR MTHIMKHULU): ADMINISTRATION Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke simolole ka go leboga Mapalamente otlhe a a akgetseng mo go yone kopo e ya rona, le ba ba emang nokeng mme ba sa akgela.

Ke simolole ka Rre Kapinga; Rre Kapinga, kana o tshwanetse gore o gakologelwe.
O ne o bua gore o akantse gore Palamente e fa e fetisa molao o e dira an Ethics Directorate, e dirile an over kill.

Tota re tshwanetse gore re gakologelwe when we dial back, le ne batla molao o pushing very hard; opposition Members of Parliament.

Ke bone bo hypocrisy jo re buang ka jone gompieno.

Le ne le bua dingwaga tse di fetileng e bile le menne phatla le batla this independent entity e dirwa ka teng gore e kgone to register declaration of assets.

Go bua maopposition mme gompieno go dirilwe.


Le ne le ntse le bua gore go tshabiwa go dirwa ka gore batho ba tshaba gore ba dira molato, ba utswa jaanong ga ba batle go itsiwe assets tsa bone.

Go dirilwe, jaanong it is you turning around gape la re go ka bo go sa diriwa gore e nne independent.

Golo mo ke bo hypocrisy.

Ke boitimokanyi jwa maemo a a kwa godimo fela thata.

Ke tlhalose gape gore kana… HONOURABLE MEMBER: On a point of order Mr Chairperson.
MR CHAIRPERSON: Point of order, from the voice I know who that is; substantive Leader of the Opposition (LOO).

THE OPPOSITION LEADER OF (MR SALESHANDO): Point of order.

Mr Chairperson, I think the Minister is clearly out of order.

Ga a ka ke a nna a gatelela a re ba opposition le rile le batla molao o. Ga re ise re re re batla a stand-alone Directorate jaaka ba dirile.

That is one.

Two; a re re rile re batla go itsiwe gore dithoto tsa bone ke eng.
Ee re rile jalo mme o molao o a re go se ka ga itsiwe e bile fa o ka dira gore batho ba itse, o tlaa seka.

Number three; a re go ne go bua batho ba kganetso fela.

Mme Mma Phumaphi fa a tlisa mogopolo wa gore go nne le tsamaiso e, e ne e le leloko la Domkrag.

Ke ne ke kopa gore o gakolole Minister gore a ko a bue boammaaruri.
Ga a ka ke a tswelela a bua dikgang tse a di tlhomaganya di le mmalwa tsotlhe di sena boammaaruri, a bo a lesiwa fela gore a di bue ka go rata le go bona, re ntse re itse rotlhe gore ga gona sepe se a se buang se e leng boammaaruri up until now, nako e a saleng a simolola go fetola go ema fa, ga a ise a bue sepe se se nang le boammaaruri mo teng.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR CHAIRPERSON: Emang pele bagaetsho.

Mo ga se point of order, ke point of correction.


Ke tseela gore ba utlule gore Mme Mma Phumaphi ga se mo opposition mme ba opposition ga go ganediwe gore ba buile.

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Point of procedure.
Mr Chairperson, ke dumela gore when you decide gore someone is not talking on the point 38 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) e a emeng ka yone, you do that not on the conclusion but on the basis of what he is deliberating on.
Jaanong fa o tlogela motho fela a sa bue se point e se buang, o bo o felela o re mo ga se point of order ke point of correction, ke eng o ne o sa mo emise a simolola fela, o bona gore ga a bue ka point of order?

with disclosure; full disclosure.

That is what we asked for.

Jaanong fa a re we are hypocrites, he is imputing improper motives because his basis ke mafoko a a reng re a buile, rona re sa a bua.

Ga re a bua jalo, a tlogele to impute improper motives mo go rona.
We are not hypocrites, ke ene hypocrite.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Are you a Chairperson wena ka gore o tsere tshwetso?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Leader of the House (LOH).

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR CHAIRPERSON: Let us have order please!

Jaanong tota fela Standing Order sa re ke tlogele Mopalamente a bue, a wetse kgang so that I must make a fair judgment, so I did not have to interrupt him.
Ke ne ke batla gore a wele, ke tle ke mmontshe gore ga a tlhamalala, go tlhamalalwa jang.

Honourable Minister Mthimkhulu.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Tota ke tlaa boa ke ipoeletsa gape ke re dibui tse di ntseng di bua tsa opposition gompieno on behalf of the opposition, ba supa boitimokanyi.

Ke bone ba ba neng ba gaketse ba le kwa pele, ga re gane gore bo Mma Phumaphi ba buile.

Ba ne ba gaketse ba le kwa ba re ba batla molao o o dirwa, e bile ba batla an independent entity.
Le maloba fa re tlile mo Palamenteng, bangwe ba ne ba supa gore go tlhoka gore the Director e re fa a tlhomiwa, a bo a le independent… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Chairperson.

Procedure Mr MR MTHIMKHULU: …e le motho yo e leng gore ga a ka ke a ntshiwa nako nngwe le nngwe.

Fa ba santse ba le fa ke bue gore… MR CHAIRPERSON: What Honourable Keorapetse?

is your procedure MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure.

Mr Chairperson, ga o ka ke wa tlogela Honourable Mthimkhulu imputing improper motives.
First, he is ascribing words that we have never uttered; a re re rile re batla an independent Directorate.

A a tle ka Hansard a re bontshe fa re neng re batla independent Directorate teng.

We have never asked for an independent Directorate, we have asked a law on declaration of assets, liabilities and interests MR CHAIRPERSON: Now two wrongs do not make a right.

If you are querying of a wrong made by another man and you also make a wrong; two wrongs do not make a right.

Ke gore le rogane, ke le tlogele.


That is what you mean.

Nnyaa bagaetsho, Honourable Mthimkhulu o ntse a tlhalosa fela gore kgang e e tswa kae.

O bua a itsetsepetse ka basimolodi ba kgang, a bo a tla a tsena ka lona ba le ntseng le e buisana, so I do not see any wrong in what the Honourable Minister is doing.

We have always made reference to previous discussions.
Honourable Mmolotsi o ntse a bua gompieno a re e rile a le kwa Palamente ya bo 10 le 11, ga buiwa gatwe, and nobody ever stopped him gore ga o bue sentle.

Why should the Minister be stopped now?

Continue Honourable Minister.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Jaanong kana Directorate e ya Ethics, gore e kwa kae, e ne e le kgang e e beilweng fa pele ga Palamente e. Rotlhe re ne re le fa re e buisana, re bona gore this entity e ya go nna independent and we allowed it to pass.
We voted this Act of Parliament fa e sena go pasa because it passed under us.

E rile fa e sena go pasa, e ya go nna foo e le independent.

Fa re ne re itse gore go ya go tla an entity e e independent, re ka bo re sa pasisa molao o, re sa o tlhophela to pass because it is now an Act of Parliament.

Re a le utlwa bakaulengwe, la re go tlhoka gore go lebelelwe mme go tlaa tswelelwa go ntse go lebelelwa ka fa le buang ka teng ka gore ke dikakanyo gore a e ka isiwa kwa DCEC ka fa le buang ka teng kana jang.
Gape le lona le bua on the other hand gore kana these people must be independent; they should not serve the President.

If an entity like the Directorate is going to be subsumed under the Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC), go raya gore its Director will not be independent the same way e le batlang ka yone gore a nne independent, so that he cannot be influenced, a berekela President kana a tshaba to investigate President.
Now you want to weaken the Director by subsuming him under an existing entity gore a se ka a nna with the same powers tsa motho yo o kwa godimo, 39 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) yo o mo maemong a gagwe gompieno.

Go raya gore jaanong you are defeating, it is self-defeating ka gore le bua ka fa la re re go ntshe.

Jaanong ke bona re sa bue sepe fela se se ka re isang gope.
HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): On a point of elucidation.

Ke elucidate mo point e o ntseng o e tshwere.

My elucidation ke gore borre ba, ka e bile ga ba na bomme, ba ba ka bong fa gongwe ba ba gakolola botoka, ba ba mo kganetsong, tota they will never surprise and disappoint you, fa go tla mo go lekeng go emisa ditsamaiso tsa Puso, le gore Puso e e se ka ya ba ya direla Batswana ka fa e ka kgonang go dira ka teng.

They will never disappoint you, they are always very perfect on that.
It is an agenda.

Do you think they are here to support?

Do you think they are here to enable this country to be ruled properly?

No, it is a proper agenda ya kganetso ya gore go tlaa nna go emisiwa sengwe le sengwe, go kgalwa.

Utlwa fela motho a tshwana le Mmolotsi a bo a re, “the Commissioner ga go itsiwe le kwa a leng teng.” Ke moeteledipele yo o ntseng jang, yo o batlang go timetsa setšhaba fela, fa motho mongwe le mongwe a tlhotlhomisiwa?
Kana makgotla a a neetswe go tlhotlhomisa mongwe le mongwe ka fa ba ka tlhotlhomisang ka teng, ga se gore ba diretse phoso ope, ga se gore ba tlhoile ope.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba tlile go go tlhatlhela le wena nako nngwe.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba tlile go go tlhatlhela, ba go botsa ka diteemane.

MR TSOGWANE: Jaanong fa monna a tshwana le Mmolotsi gotwe ke moeteledipele, ke Mopalamente a re mongwe o a tlhotlhomisiwa, a bo a ema fa a re, motho yo e bile ga go itsiwe le kwa a teng, hee!
batho ba setse batho morago, mme gape e ntse e le ene, a nnang a ntse a bua gore ga go dirwe dilo sentle.

Seo o se lemoge Rre Mthimkhulu, ke setse ke itse banna ba.

Le ene Saleshando, ke mmoleletse on day one, gore lona ga se ba le ka isang lefatshe gope, maikaelelo a lona ke go ganetsa, go emisa, go rotloetsa gore go se ka ga nna sepe se se tlaa tswelelang.

Batswana ba le utlwile, 2024 is coming.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O santse o tlile go tlhalosa gore o fetotse difane go rileng Vice President (VP).
MR TSOGWANE: I am elucidating, you can go and check.

I am not a liar, I have my father and grandfather, I used the name of my father, you can go and ...(Interruptions)…I do not give a damn.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Diteemane!

Diteemane di go tsentse mo mathateng.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)...

MR TSOGWANE: Ga go na diteemane, you can go to any police station and court, you will never find my name, you will never see me having been incriminated.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: O a goroga Magosi kwa go wena, o a kokota, o ipaakanye sir.

MR TSOGWANE: O ka tsamaya ka maaka otlhe a o batlang go a bua, ga o ka ke wa fitlhela gope fa ke kileng ka ba ka seka gope.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Magosi, go dira Magosi.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Interruptions!)...

MR CHAIRPERSON: Can we have order please, can we have order!

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Interruptions!)...

MR CHAIRPERSON: Can we have order please!


MR TSOGWANE: Ke tlaa le bolelela in and out gore ga le batho ba ba ka busang lefatshe, e bile ga le ka ke la dira gore lefatshe le buswe gope, you are not fit.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Interruptions!)...

MR CHAIRPERSON: ...(Inaudible)... the clock.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Interruptions!)...

MR CHAIRPERSON: Order please!

Let us have order please.

Order!

Heelang, bagaetsho le re diela tiro.

A-a!

Hey!


Honourable Mthimkhulu, please unmute yourself Honourable Minister.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Batho ba Mhalapitsa ga ba na Kgosana, mme Dr Gobotswang o fa… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR CHAIRPERSON: A ko o iketle, hei!

MR TSOGWANE: I am elucidating.

Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O nne o kgalemela mo go tshwanang le gone ga bo Healy.
40 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR CHAIRPERSON: Batho ba Modimo!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O se ka wa nthaya o re mo.

Do not ever say that, this should be the last time you say that.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le a tlhodia lona.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR MTHIMKHULU: Rre Kapinga a re Ethics Directorate ke registry fela, ke mo tlhalosetse gore ga a bala sentle.

Molao wa Ethics Directorate, ga ba kwadise fela.


Ba a kwadisa, e bile gape fa ba sena go kwadisa, ba kgona gore fa e le gore ba a belaela, ba sena to assess, because fa ba register, ba a assess gore dilo tse o di tlisitseng a ke tsone, di kae.

Le gore ba lebeletse sengwe le sengwe which you have disclosed; your source of income, sengwe le sengwe, companies, assets, ba a lebelela gore go diragala eng, ba bo ba assess kwa go bone.
Fa ba sena to assess fa ba bona, e le bone, ba dira tshwetso, ya gore golo gongwe go ka tswa go na le foul play teng kana you are living beyond your means, kana go tlhoka interest ya other institutions tsa molao, ba a e tsaya kgang ya gago, ba e isa (refer) kwa go bone for further investigations.

Ke tiro e ba e dirang, ga se gore ba kwadisa fela Rre Kapinga.
Jaanong go tla fa re bo re raya Batswana, mo national television, re re nnyaa, golo mo ke registration unit fela ga se sepe go tshwana le Deeds Office, nnyaa, ga go tshwane.

Deeds Office le ba, ga ba tshwane, ba dira ditiro tse di farologaneng.

Of course, both of them do registration work, mme di farologane, o tshwanetse o tlhaloganye gore fa ba bereka ka ethics.
Gape o lebelele le molao wa teng fela, ga o felele gone fa, this Ethics Directorate e na le mandate gape in terms of the Act, which include promoting and reinforcing integrity and accountability in the public offices.

So golo mo go raya gore they can go beyond just registration fela, go mo molaong.

Jaanong go tla fa re bo re re nnyaa, ba ke ba ba kwadisang fela, tota ke sone se o utlwang ke bua gore ke boitimokanyi fela jo bo seng kana ka sepe.
Re itse gore molao wa reng, re o badile, re bo re tshwana le bo Rre Kapinga, re o itse gore o ntse jang, re bo re o tsaya re o ignore.

Re o beela kwa thoko fela just because we want to besmirch the Government.
You want to show the Government in bad light when the Government is doing exactly what Batswana have been calling for over the years gore molao o o dirwe, batho ba declare, go dirwe registry, batho ba itsagale, fa e le gore go na le bogodu, bokukuntshwane kana corruption e kgone go tswela kwa ntle and be investigated.

This unit will be doing exactly that, helping the Government to expose and deal with corruption where necessary.
Gape o tshwanetse o tlhaloganye gore kana registration e e tona thata, e na le maphata a mantsi a ga Goromente.

Jaaka o ne o utlwa re bua ka dipalo tse di setseng di amogetswe le tse di tlaa amogelwang in the future, di kwa godimo fela thata mo e leng gore to assess these things, go bereka mo go tsone ke manontlhotlho.
Jaanong fa o tsaya o isa kwa maphateng a tshwanang le DCEC jaana, o ya go dira gore DCEC kgantele e bo e felela tiro e e nna secondary, e sa nne the primary work of the DCEC, re bo re kgona go lebala.
Ba kgona gore ba tsewe gotwe ya go dira kwa, jaanong tiro e e manontlhotlho e e tshwanetseng gore e dirwe mo bathong ba bantsi ba ga Goromente ba ba botlhokwa, babereki ba ga Goromente ba ba rekang, ba bo ba rekisa dilo tsa ga Goromente; procurement officers, who have the power to procure assets and spend the Government’s money.

Ke bone batho ba bantsi thata mo lefatsheng le, e bile ba rutiwe, go supiwe gore ba na le integrity e e kana ka eng.
Lona fela fa le tsoga phakela kana fa le bua fela, le batla go bua ka Ministers le President, le sa lemoge batho ba bantsi who are affected by the Act e; ga se President, Vice President (VP) le Ministers fela, ke batho ba bantsi ba ba rekang letsatsi le letsatsi.

Ministers, President, VP le Mapalamente ga go na gope kwa ba rekang teng, go na le batho ba Puso who deal with madi a Puso letsatsi le letsatsi.
Fa le fetisa budget e gompieno jaana, batho ba ba yang go dirisa madi a le a fetisang gompieno, ba ba yang go a dirisa letsatsi le letsatsi, ga se rona, ga se Ministers le Mapalamente, go na le batho, technocrats ba ba berekang tiro ya teng ya go dira tenders, go di aba, go di ntsha le go di tlhokomela.

Batho bao ke bone ba re ka bo gompieno re le fa, re bua ka bone, if we are serious about fighting corruption.

Le buile gape Motlotlegi Kapinga, ka kgang ya P630,000 ya training.
Rre Kapinga, re buile gore lephata le le lesha tota, le le nnyennyane.

It is less than a year in operation if I am correct, ke ngwaga wa lone fela wa ntlha le tla kwa Palamenteng.

Jaanong gore re tle fa re na le maiteko a a kanakana, go supa gore tota Government jaanong e tsentse moko mo nameng ka gore golo mo go ne go ntse go buiwa fela mme go sa diragale, jaanong e a diragatsa, it is implementing, it is making sure gore this unit is up and running.
Babereki ba yone since last year, o utlwa re bua mo report gore ba ne ba le two, gompieno ba 19 and the posts are 29, jaanong go santse go tlaa hirwa mo 41 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) tseleng.
Re bua fa pele ga Palamente, re bo re ema fela, ka gore re batla go kgala re bo re batla madi a mannye fela, a P630 000 le P300 000, mme go na le madi a re buang ka one a P18 million, a dikatso, a babereki ba ba hirwang in this organisation.

Re bua ka madi a mantsi a a yang go ba direla furniture, a godisa office ya bone.
Re a dumalana gore ofisi e tshwanetse gore e re mo dingwageng tse di tlang fa e ntse e gola, kana ke gone e simololang, e ye kwa bo Francistown, e aname le lefatshe la Botswana jaaka le ne le bua bakaulengwe.

A re dumalane gore ke gone e simologang, ga e ka ke ya re e simologa fela e bo e simolola kwa marung.

Fa e ka simolola kwa marung go wela tlase ga yone gongwe go ya go nna botlhoko thata, gona le fa e ka bo e simolola e aga (build) sentle e iketlile.
Jaanong e o neng o bua ka valuation, re tshwanetse re dumalane gore fa re bua ka Declaration of Assets and Liabilities Act, fa re e bala sentle, o tlaa tlhaloganya gore mo teng directorates di na le thata ya gore e re fa o sena to declare o le Rre Kapinga, e bo e tsaya dilo tsa gago to value them fa e ipelaetsa, verification.
Verification I believe e fa directorate mandate kana power ya gore, e ka tsamaya ka dilo tsa gago e bo e re no, re a ipelaetsa, o rile dilo tsa gago ke P1 million, re batla go tlhola gore a tota ke P1 million.

I think that is a very important function or responsibility e e filweng directorate.

Jaanong fa re ka re mongwe le mongwe who declares their properties a direlwe valuation, nnyaa batho betsho, moo go ka se ke go nne sentle.
Kgantele jaanong re tlaabo re imetsa Goromente yo re buang gore ga gona madi ka dikoloto tse dintsintsi tse a tlaabong a tshwanelwa ke gore a duelele mongwe le mongwe madi to value le dithoto.

Motho o tlaabo a nna fela fa fatshe...

...Silence...

MR CHAIRPERSON: Did we lose you Honourable Minister?

Please unmute yourself.

MR MTHIMKHULU: …gore e re nako le nako fa molao o tla fela ke gore jaanong Goromente e nne ene a rwalang mokgweleo wa go sikara Batswana, nnyaa ga go a tshwanela go nna jalo.
Re tshwanetse gore re itse gore, dilo tse dingwe re tshwanetse re tseye responsibility ya go di dira.

Mma Makwinja o buile ka kgang ya corruption, ke dumalana le wena.
Molao o o ka re thusa go lwantsha corruption, ka gore jaaka ke ne ke ntse ke bua, fa bone ba directorate while we declare, ba ka lemoga gore Rre Mthimkhulu declared dilo tse di fetang madi a a amogelang, ba na le tshwanelo ya gore e re ba sena to assess jalo, ba bo ba tsaya ba go isa kwa Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC), mapodiseng kana gongwe fela kwa ba molao ba leng teng ba kgona go bereka le wena.
Gape if you do not declare, o tshaba to declare ka gore ba ya go lemoga gore you are living beyond your means, le bone ba a kgona gore if you do not declare, they will pick it up gore nnyaa, Rre Mthimkhulu kana did not declare when he was supposed to declare.

Ke yone e ke neng ke bua ka yone ke re ke lifestyle audit, e e tlaabong e determine gore somebody is living beyond their means, I believe that has been fully addressed Mma Makwinja.
Jaanong ya ga Rre Lucas, ka gore go na le who appoints the head of the directorate, ke kgang e ke neng ke bua ka yone gore ba opposition ke baitimokanyi, ka gore ba ne ba bua gore e ye go nna a unit under an already existing statutory body e e tshwanang le DCEC.
Jaanong fa o rialo o a bo o raya gore kana motho and their appointment, it is going to fall under the powers tsa the head of that unit ya DCEC, le batho ba tlaabong ba le foo kana Permanent Secretary to the President (PSP) jaaka yo mongwe a ne a bua.

It diminishes the authority and power e a nang le yone.

The security of tenure e re buang ka yone, go raya gore le yone it is diminished.
Tota ke bona appointment ya ga the Director of the directorate e siame fela e sena mathata, e bile once they have been appointed, there are proper and sufficient safeguards mo molaong, tse di reng ga a ka ke a ntshiwa mo ofising, e bile go builwe le selekanyo sa gore o ka nna mo ofising go fitlhelela ka dingwaga tse kae a sa ntshiwe.

Fa o batla go mo ntsha fela, the only route you have ke gore o ye kwa Palamenteng, a tribunal has to be set a kgone go ntshiwa, mo e leng namane e tona ya tiro.
Ga go motlhofo gore o bo o tsena kwa ofising o bo o ntsha motho fela motlhofo jalo.

O bo o lebelela bakaulengwe gore, ba batla go bua ka dilo tse di seng fa pele ga Palamente ka komiti e ka nako e re leng mo go yone.

Ba tshwantshanya appointment ya the head ya the directorate le head wa DCEC.

Le gore go setse go na le batho ba le three ever since His Excellency the President Rre Masisi a tsena mo ofising, jaanong moo go supa gore fa a a tlhomiwa jaana, o ya go nna motho wa ga Tautona.
A sa dire sepe fela e nna motho wa ga Tautona, go nna gotwe latela yole kana a se ka a mo sekisa gotlhelele.

Nnyaa, molao wa Ethics fa re o bala sentle, o pateletsa Tautona yo o duleng mo Pusong gore a tswelele ka declaration five years after retirement.

Le Ministers fa re sena go tswa mo ofising, 42 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) we are going to continue declaring after we have left the office.
Jaanong ke ipotsa gore fa a sena go tswa mo ofising gone foo Tautona, fa e le gore molao o o ne o mo sireletsa, directorate e ne e mo sireletsa gore a se ka a declare, a bo a tsamaya le tshireletso eo, ke gore ene fa a sa declare e le Tautona, fa a sena go tswa mo Pusong ba tlaabo ba mo raya ba re Tautona, tla kwano jaanong o tle to declare, a jaanong director yo a mo tlhomileng o tlaabo a ntse a mo sireletsa kana jang, kana o tlaabo a sireletsa Tautona yo mosha yo o tlileng mo ofising.
Golo mo fa re ntse re bua jaana, re nyatsa le professionals tsa Batswana.

Batho ba ba ithutetseng ditiro ba dithuto tse di kwa godimo, ba na le professional integrity, re bua gore batho ba ke go rekwa fela.

Ga gona ope yo o ka berekang gope fela, a sa amogele kana a sa atswiwe for tiro e a tlaabong a e bereka mo go Goromente.

Ga a yo, le lona le le Mapalamente fa, le a duelwa, le duelwa ke Goromente.

Do you owe your allegiance to anybody, you do not, mme le a amogela kgwedi le kgwedi.
Mme la re batho ba bangwe ba se ka ba hirwa, ba se ka ba amogela.

Golo mo ke yone kgang e ke reng ke boitimokanyi jo bo seng kana ka sepe.

Le bua le ka dikgang tse di seyong fa, tsa tendering.

Tsa gore re ne re le fa maloba mo Palamenteng, re bua gore President and Vice President can tender ee, they can tender.

Fa nkabo re tlhwaafetse, re batla to debate kopo e e fa pele ga Palamente gompieno, re ka bo re sa bua dilo tse di kwa tlhoko, which are unnecessary distractions.
Re bua ka kopo e re e le beileng pele, ya go kopela Ethics madi le gore re ka e tlhabolola jang e seng go bua ka tendering.

Fa le batla to tender molao o teng, tsamayang le ye go o fetola.

Le na le power le le Mapalamente ya go bitsa molao o le o beye fa, le o fetole, fa e le gore golo gongwe le tsaya gore dilo… mme le lona le itsenye mo teng le le Mapalamente a opposition gore you cannot go in to tendering, ka gore le Mapalamente.
Lotlhe le tlhophilwe; Tautona, Vice President, Ministers le Mapalamente le tlhophilwe, we are all elected officials.

Fa re batla go itsenya mo teng, a re itsenyeng, but re se ka ra bua ka motho a le mongwefela re batla go mo ntsha ka loso legolo.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR MTHIMKHULU: Rre Lucas, o ne a bua gape ka Freedom of Information.

Molao o o leng teng o ga o tsamaisane gope le molao wa Freedom of Information.
Molao o fa o dirwa, le o dirile le o fetisa mo Palamenteng wa Declaration of Assets.

Re tshwanetse re dumalane gore fa o fetisiwa, go ne go lebeletswe gore go na le bangwe batho kana any person or individual, ba ba ka se keng ba batla gore assets tsa bone di bo di tsamaya di ya go anegiwa in public, but fa e le gore o a ipelaetsa gore mongwe golo gongwe did not declare sentle kana they did declare, mme they are living beyond their means, tsamaya o ye kwa court o ye go kopa gore information eo e ntshiwe.
It is a proper procedure.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O tlaa itse jang a sa bona report ya gago Mthimkhulu?

O tlaa itse jang?

MR MTHIMKHULU: Nnyaa, gakere fa o mpona ke humile, o ipotsa gore ke humile jang, o a ipelaetsa, you may have sufficient grounds.

O ka tsamaya o ya go kopa molao gore o go thuse gore ke na le dithoto tse kae, ke dirile jang.
Rre Keorapetse o ne a bua ka lephata le, I have addressed kgang ya gore lephata le is an overkill, ntle se se ka ka boelela kgang ya teng, I addressed it kwa go Rre Kapinga ke bua gore tota borre ba opposition are hypocrites.

Ba bua se, kamoso ba a fetoga, nako le nako ba batla go ithatisa Batswana, nako tse dingwe ka go sa bua boammaaruri.

Ke ene gape a neng a bua gore DCEC e fetotse Directors gararo.
Nnyaa, Directors tsa DCEC gore di fetotswe gararo, ga gona relevance mo kgannyeng e re e buang gompieno.

Le ne le na le tshono ya gore le e bue fa go buiwa ka DCEC, le ka bo le e buile, le tlaa arabiwa, gore fa e le gore Director nngwe o fetotswe, o fetolotswe eng.

Gompieno re fa, go na le dikgang mo social media tse di buang ka Rre Keorapetse, gore o na le interest kwa SPEDU le gore fa o bona a sa seke jaana o sirelediwa ke bangwe ba maphata a mangwe a ga Goromente gore a se ka a seka.
A dilo tseo re tle go nna fa re bue ka tsone, gore batho ba ba corrupt ke bone ba ba tlang fa ba bua ka maphata a ba itseng gore golo gongwe a tlaa ba sireletsa kamoso.

Nnyaa, ga re batle go bua jalo, ga re batle go senya ope leina, ga re batle go akanyetsa ope.

A re se ka ra dira assumptions tse di sa berekeng, tse e seng tsone.

Re tsamaye fela ka molao ka fa sengwe le sengwe se dirwang ka teng, se lebelelwang ka teng.
Fa re bua ka Commissioner of Police… HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): On a point of clarification.

Ke a go kopa Minister, golo fa o kare go na le kgang e tona e ke neng ke e bua ya gore batho ba kganetso fa go dirwa ditlhotlhomiso, ba na le go ipelaetsa gore go setswe bangwe morago.
A go tlaabo go le phoso Minister fa go buiwa ka ditlhobolo, re bo re ka fitlhela yo e neng e le 43 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Deputy Commissioner, Honourable Kapinga, declared ditlhobolo ka fa e seng gone?

A go tlaabo go le molato gore a ye go tlhotlhomisiwa?

President, o dira eng.

Nnyaa, o dira tiro ya gagwe ka fa molaong.


O tshwanetse gore e re nako le nako… (Interruptions) … HONOURABLE MEMBER: Bua pele ka diteemane.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go tlhotlhomisiwa pele sir, ga o tseye motho ke gone o bo o ya go tlhotlhomisa.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Kapinga o a itse, e ne e le lepodise la maemo a a kwa godimo, le le neng le tlotlwa ke Batswana.

Ke dumela gore kgang e, o tshwanetse a e sale morago.
A itse gore tota fa motho gotwe o dirile molato, a ke mang kana mang jaaka ba bua, o tshwanetse a bitswe a tle go botswa dipotso.

Ba batla gore kamoso re bo re seka dikgang tsa Batswana ka rona ba ba belaelwang ke law enforcement agencies tsa ga Goromente.

Ga re a tshwanela go tla fa, re bo re bua ka bone.

Kamoso e bo e nna e kete re ba atlhotse pele ga ditsheko tsa bone di tsena.

Ga ba dire sentle, ba a itse le bone gore ga ba dire sentle.
Ba a tlhaloganya gore fa o belaelwa ke badiragatsi ba molao jaaka mapodise, DCEC, DIS, ba na le tetla ya gore ba go ikatumetse, ba go botse dipotso.

Ba go tlhotlhomise fela jaaka Rre Kapinga a ne a dira bogologolo.

Rre Keorapetse fa a ne a le kwa DCEC, ke dumela gore le ene o ne a ka dira tiro e e tshwanang le e. Ba batla go leswafatsa Director wa DIS.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

Order!
Order!

MR MTHIMKHULU: Rre Mmolotsi o ne a batla go leswafatsa Director wa DIS a re o berekela President.

Nnyaa, ga a berekele President, o berekela lefatshe.

O itse gape gore ka fa molao wa DIS o kwadilweng ka teng, Director of the DIS o na le responsibility ya go gakolola President on security matters.

Ke molao o o dirilweng ke Palamente e. A le batla go mo kgaoganya le President?

A le batla gore kamoso … HONOURABLE MEMBER: He was appointed by ene gakere.
MR MTHIMKHULU: Ee, he was appointed ka fa molaong ...(Interruptions) … HONOURABLE MEMBER: Monna, molao o, o sokame.

O bua ka molao o o sokameng.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

MR MTHIMKHULU: Ke Security Advisor ya President wa lefatshe.

O dira tiro ya gagwe.

Ga a tshwanela gore e re a dira tiro ya gagwe, a bo a nna a tshaba gore fa ke dira se… Gompieno go na le dipelaelo tsa gore go na le bangwe ba ba ntseng ba senyetsa lefatshe, ba tshwerwe, ke itse gore le buelelela bone.
Le buelela batho ba ba tshwereng ba e leng gore mongwe wa bone o sietse kwa ntle ga lefatshe, a tshaba lefatshe.

Gatwe ba ntse ba a ja madi a Batswana, ba a ja madi kwa Botswana Defence Force (BDF), ba e ipha ditlhobolo.

Batho ba ba siile mo lefatsheng ka gore go na le mongwe yo o intshitseng setlhabelo.

Fa e ka bo e se ka Director of the DIS, a intshitse setlhabelo ngwana wa batho, a bua gore bogodu jo bo tshwanetse bo salwe morago.

Bogodu jo bo dirileng gore Rre Kapinga a sie mo sepodiseng.
Rre Katlholo, ke ne ke le kwa Attorney General, o siile kwa DCEC ka bogodu jo… MR KAPINGA: On a point of order.

Minister o ka tswa a kukegile maikutlo ka tse ke di buileng.

Mme le fa o kukegile maikutlo Minister, o se ka wa bua se e seng boammaaruri.

Ga ke a sia kwa sepodiseng, ke kopa o baakanye mafoko ao, o a boele morago.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Okay, o kobilwe ee.

MR KAPINGA: Chillyboy, o tle o mpote ka koo, o tlaa ikotlhaa.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, your colleague is not happy.
Please see to it that you make your statement palatable.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you sir.

O dule ka diamaramara ba mo ntsha.

O ne a sia, ke ne ke e bua jalo.

Ba ne ba mo ntsha kwa e le gore dilo tse, o ne a kile a di emela ka dinao tsa go tlhoka go tsamaisa lefatshe sentle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Then what is your problem?

MR MTHIMKHULU: Mma ke tswelele ke tlhalose Rre Mmolotsi, o se ka wa ntsena ganong.
Re batla gore e re kamoso re nne re re Director wa DIS o berekela Rre Katlholo gore a tswe kwa DCEC, la ntlha o ne a kile a emela dilo tse ka dinao gore batho ba bangwe ba gopela lefatshe.

Dilo tse di ntseng jaana tse e re fa re di bua, re bulelela batho ba ba batliwang ke molao gompieno, a re se ka ra ba buelela, re bo re senya batho ba ba dirang tiro sentle, ba sireletsa Batswana.
44 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 2800 – ETHICS AND INTEGRITY DIRECTORATECommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR KAPINGA: On a point of order.

Mr Chairperson, the Assistant Minister should go on record explicitly withdrawing the words suggesting that, “ke siile kwa sepodiseng.” He should state that unequivocally.

Otherwise he has not withdrawn those words.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Okay, ga o a sia Rre Kapinga.

I withdraw that part.

Gakere o a itse gore golo kwa o ne o tlhasetswe ke patron.
Jaanong gompieno ke fa o a mmuelela gore o dira sentle… HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ne a sa tlhaselwa, o ne a dumalana le dilo tse di neng di sa nna sentle.

O ne a dumalana le tsone.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Rakgare please!

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Chairperson.

I am sorry Mr MR HIKUAMA: On a point of procedure.

Ke ne ke re o tle o nthuse fa Mr Chairperson.

O bona dilo tse dingwe fa o bona Palamente e felela e tsosa modumo, e a bo e tsosa modumo ka one mabaka a.
A go a tshwanela gore Tona wa Puso a bo a re batho ba dirile bogodu without being charged?

A ke mafoko a a letlelesegang gore Tona a re batho bangwe ba dirile bogodu jo?

MR CHAIRPERSON: You have made your point Honourable Hikuama.

Ke go utlwile mokaulengwe wa me.

Honourable Minister, let us hear your take in that statement.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go tshwana fela Mr Chairperson, le rona ba tlhola ba ntse ba re re magodu, e bile dikgaolo tsa rona di re kgalemele.

It is not fair.
It is not fair.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Keep quiet Mma Monnakgotla!

Keep quiet!

We are talking on a very serious matter here.

Honourable Minister, kgang ya bogodu e o e buang is a very serious allegation.

Please let us hear your views on that.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ga ke a bua ope ka leina ke re o dirile bogodu.

Ke rile bangwe ba dirile bogodu ba ba ba buelelang.

O itse gore ke ne ke bua ka mang, gongwe ke bua ka tsala ya gagwe.
Maloba go ne go buiwa mo Palamenteng gotwe President o dirile bogodu.

Re ne ra utlwa gotwe golo mo is a legal interpretation ya ga Rre Keorapetse.

Re ne re le fa re re ga go dirwe sentle, e bile o ne a supile President a mo ntshitse ka leina.

Gompieno ka re bangwe ba dirile bogodu, e bile ba ke buang ka bone ba senkiwa ke mapodise, DCEC le DIS.

Re tla mo Palamenteng re batla go ba sireletsa when the President was accused ka bogodu a sa senkiwa ke ope.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is above the law!


He is above the law!

MR CHAIRPERSON: Please go to the summary Honourable Mthimkhulu, your time is already gone.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Yes Mr Chairperson, this concludes my budget proposal for Organisation 2800; Ethics and Integrity Directorate (EID).

I now request that a total of Nineteen Million, One Hundred and Fourteen Thousand, One Hundred and Seventy Pula (P19, 114, 170.

00) for the Recurrent Budget be approved for the financial year 2022/2023.

I move accordingly.
I move accordingly.

I thank you Mr Chairperson.

Question put and agreed to.

ORGANISATION 9100 -APPROPRIATIONS FROM REVENUE MR CHAIRPERSON: Please note that 30 minutes have been allocated to this organisation, and I shall call upon the Honourable Minister to reply to the debate at 1700 hours today.

The question would be put at 1705 hours.

Honourable Minister of Finance and Economic Development, please present your budget.
MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Ke a leboga Motlotlegi and good afternoon Honourable Members.
Mr Chairperson, I have the honour to present the 2022/2023 budget for Organisation 9100, “Appropriations from Revenue.” Mr Chairperson, to finance the total Development Expenditure of Sixteen Billion, Four Hundred and Thirty Million, Two Hundred and Seventy-One Thousand, One Hundred and Ninety-Six Pula (P16 430 271 196) in the 2022/2023 estimates as stated at Clause 4 of the Appropriation Bill 2022/2023, I propose the appropriation from the Consolidated Fund Revenue, a sum of Fifteen Billion, Five Hundred and Thirty-Five Million, Three Hundred and Thirty-Nine Thousand, Six Hundred and Sixty-One Pula (P15 535 339 661) to the Domestic Development Fund (DDF) to finance part of the 2022/2023 development programmes.
The remainder will be financed with loans amounting to Seven Hundred and Ten Million, Nine Hundred and Ninety-Two Thousand Pula (P710 992 000) and 45 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 9100 -APPROPRIATIONS FROM REVENUECommittee of Supply development grants of One Hundred and Eighty-Three Million, Nine Hundred and Thirty-Nine Thousand, Five Hundred and Thirty-Five Pula (P183 939 535), which are direct receipts into the Development Fund.
Mr Chairperson, as this is the last item in the Schedule to the Appropriation Bill, let me take this opportunity to thank Honourable Members for their positive contributions and feedback on the budget, and assure them that their valuable inputs will be taken into account in the course of implementation of Government programmes and projects.
Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I move that the sum of Fifteen Billion, Five Hundred and Thirty-Five Million, Three Hundred and Thirty-Nine Thousand, Six Hundred and Sixty-One Pula (P15 535 339 661) for Organisation 9100 in the Schedule to the Appropriation (2022/2023) Bill, 2022 – Bill No.2 of 2022 stand part of the Schedule.

I thank you Mr Chairperson.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Thank you Mr Chairperson.
Mma ke leboge Tona ka kopo ya gagwe ya madi a ditlhabololo.

Batswana ba babaletswe ke COVID-19 e bile re a bona gore ba bangwe ba latlhegetswe ke breadwinners.

Tota Palamente e tshwanetse go dumalana le kopo e ka gore e raya madi a ditlhabololo a a yang go re direla ditiro.

Ditlhabololo, bogolo jang kwa kgaolong ya Kgalagadi North le lefatshe lotlhe, re bua ka ditlhabololo di tshwana le metsi, ditsela, motlakase le dikago.
Fa ke lebile kwa kgaolong ya Kgalagadi North, bogolo jang kwa Zutshwa kwa re nang le letswai teng, re tlhokana le ditsela.

Di ya go boa gape di direla ba bangwe ditiro, bogolo jang kwa Lobatse kwa Leather Works.

Dilo tseo di di ntle.

Tona, o buile thata mo Budget Speech gore a Mapalamente ba netefatse gore madi a ditlhabololo a tsena mo matsogong a Batswana.

Tota a direla Batswana bokamoso mme e bile re diragatse melao e re e fetisitseng ya Economic Inclusion le wa Public Procurement.
Ke leboge Motlotlegi Thapelo Letsholo ka Tshutiso e a neng a e dira maloba ka Friday a bua gore a re bone ditiro mo Batswaneng.

Ke dilo dingwe tse di ntle fela thata, bogolo jang mo bananeng le bomme.

A re bone tenders tsa dikago mo Batswaneng.

A re bone Batswana ba dira ditiro gore re tswe mo lehumeng.

Dilo tse ke dilo dingwe tse re ka itumelang.

Fa ke ntse ke bua ka madi a ditlhabololo Tona, ke bua bogolo jang ka madi a dikago le metsi.

Ga re na metsi kwa kgaolong Tona.


Re emetse metsi a a tswang kwa 46 Ncojane kwa Macheng.

Badirelapuso ga ba na matlo, kitchen ya Macha ga e a fela, bana ba jela kwa ntle.

Madi a o ntseng o a bua fa a ka ya kwa kgaolong ele ya Kgalagadi North, ke ka leboga ka gore dilo tse di ya go direla batho ba.

E se Kgalagadi North fela, e le lefatshe lotlhe.

A ya go tlhabolola jaaka le kwa bo Letoreng mme le kwa Shakawe a ya go aga dikole tse re neng re bua ka ga tsone.

Ke beye dilo tse fa pele ga gago.


Mma ke bone tenders tsa bo maintenance le bo construction.

A ditiro tse di neelwe Batswana, bogolo jang bomme.

Fa re ka fetisa Tshutiso e, ke batla gore rotlhe re le Mapalamente, re dumalane mme e bile re ye go lebelela ka gore Mapalamente ba ya go lebelela oversight mo dikomiting tsa bone.

Rona re le Mapalamente re na le maphata a rona, re ya go lebelela thata e bile re bo re tsenya leitlho gore a mme madi a a dira ditlhabololo.
A mme a ya kwa Batswaneng, kwa dikomponeng tsa Batswana?

A Batswana ba tswa mo lehumeng?

Ke yone nako e re tshwanetseng gore re bo re bua ka yone.

Ke sone se o bonang ke re ke lebogela Tshutiso e e neng e tla ka Motlotlegi Thapelo Letsholo.

Mma re go neele madi a mme o re a kgaoganyetse re le maphata.

Re tlaa a ya go a tshwara sentle e bile re tlaa ya go a lebelela sentle.

Re ya go tlhabolola metse ya rona.


Le yone corruption re tsenye leitlho re bone gore bomang ba ba filwe ditiro, re neele Batswana ditiro ka go lekana.

A re se ka ra bonela ditiro mo go bathong ba le nosi, a rotlhe Batswana re tswe mo lehumeng.

Ditlhabololo ke dilo tse ditona.

Fa o tsena kwa Kang le Hukuntsi, Tona, o tlaa bona gore dilo tse gotweng ditlhabololo ke dilo tse di botlhokwa ka gore di direla Motswana tiro.

Le rona re a leka re le Batswana gore re thuse Puso re age.
Selo se ke se setona gore Batswana ba bereke.

Re bone gore COVID-19 tota e digile itsholelo, re batla itsholelo ya rona e tokafala.

COVID-19 e tsere breadwinners.

Ka jalo ke re ke a leboga.

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Probably I would need your guidance, ke ne ke sa utlwa sentle Motlotlegi Minister fa a rola pego, ke solofetse gore o na le Bill e a tshwanetseng go e fetisa mabapi le supplementary.
Fa e le gore ke yone, you will guide me, mme fa e le gore ga se yone, o tlaa feta because ke ne ke itheile ka re ke yone e e sobokang supplementary.

I need to be guided before I debate.

Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 9100 -APPROPRIATIONS FROM REVENUECommittee of Supply MR CHAIRPERSON: Ga se yone, e tlaa goroga eo, I will alert the House.

MR TSOGWANE: Okay, thank you Mr Chairperson, I thought it was the one.

No, mme o ka fetela kwa pele Mr Chairperson.


MR CHAIRPERSON: Tanki morena wa me.

MR SALESHANDO (MAUN WEST): Ke a go leboga Modulasetilo.

E re fela jaaka ke simolotse nako ya Tona Serame was presenting the Budget, ka jaanong re digela debate, ke mo eleletse masego le matlhogonolo mo ngwageng o o tlang wa madi o a tlaabong a okametse madi a rona jaaka a tlaabo a dirisiwa.
Ke mo kope gore Tona Mma Serame, mo nakong e e fetileng re ne re fetisa Budget jaaka ngwaga o o fetileng, re sa bolelelwe ke ope gore le fa madi re ntse re re a tlhaela, ga re na madi a a lekaneng go ya go rekela bana dibuka kwa sekoleng, golo gongwe mo mading a le a fetisitseng a re tsentse dikoloi tse di bidiwang ka Sekgoa gotwe, armoured vehicles.

Re ya go tsaya millions tse di seng kana ka sepe re rekela Tautona dikoloi tse a ka yang go ralela Ukraine ka tsone fa a batla.
Tse e leng gore le fa di fulwa Marumo ga a ka ke a tsena mo teng.

Re tlaa nama re sena melemo kwa dipateleng.

A re nameng re sena le melemo re neele Tautona dikoloi tse di sireletsegileng ka bokete jo bo kalo.

Re ne re fetisa madi re ntse re itse gore kwa dikgaolong di tshwana le tsa bo Kgalagadi jaaka Tona Monnakgotla a bua, ga go na dikago tsa babereki.
Le fa go sena dikago tsa babereki, re kgona go ntsha madi a a kana ka P58 Million re bo re re re ne re reka polase re bo re fitlhela go na le hotel mo teng.

E kare hotel e ne e sa solofelwa, re thulane le yone re sena go reka lefatshe.

P50 Million fela yo re ka bong re ne re boleletswe kwa ntlheng gore go na le madi ke a, re ne re akanya go ya go reka hotel lona la reng.

Re ka bo re ba reetse ra re, nnyaa emang pele, isang metsi kwa dikgaolong tse di senang metsi.
Matona ba tsaya tshwetso ya gore ba ya go reka Tautona Lodge.

Re ne re fetisa Budget re sa bolelelwe gore go na le kakanyo ya gore re ya go agela Tautona lefelo le a ka iphokisang phefo teng le baeng ba gagwe kwa makgobokgobong a Okavango.

Re dira jaana re ntse re itse gore ga go na ditsela, mme ra re a Tautona a ye go agelwa kwa a ka iphokisang phefo teng.

Re ne re fetisa Budget, mme go na le dinako tse dingwe tse e leng gore nako le nako go ya go runya dilo tse gotweng unnecessary expenditure.
Ga ke na pelaelo Tona Serame gore fa o ka botswa potso gore madi a a dirisitsweng ke Matona otlhe ka go farologana go etela kwa Dubai ngwaga o, e le a mosepele, boroko, dijo le a claims tsa bone ke bokae?

Re ka gakgama fa le ka se ka la nkgankga P1Million, la mo atumela.

Le ntse le re a re amogeleng gore ga go na madi.


Re fetisa madi a re ntse re itse gore kamoso le fa o ntse o re a mangwe ke dikadimo P710 Million le ya go tsaya sekoloto, DIS e kgona go tsaya tshwetso jaaka e dirile kwa Maun, a tender e e abetswe ba e ba abetsweng, ba bo ba tsaya tshwetso ya gore boelang tender eo morago.

Fa le sena go e boela morago le bo le e fa ba bangwe ba ba turang ka madi a a fetang P1 Billion.

Kana go raya go ya go tsaya sekoloto fela go ya go tla go duelela botlhokatsebe jwa DIS.
Ba le raya ba re kompone e we cancelled it ka gore it is a threat to national security.

A bo e re fa gotwe Domkrag e ipelela phenyo, a bo o bona bone ba go neng gotwe ke threat to national security ba le gone koo, go supa gore le bone ba amana le party e e busang.

Re fetisa madi a jaana Mma Serame re ntse re itse gore gape DIS mo go yone ga go na madi a ba a fiwa go atle gotwe tshere!

go lekane, emang gone foo go a tlhaela.


Fa e le gore e tlaa re ngwaga o o tlang dikgang tse re bo re ntse re di bua, Batswana ba le mo mathateng a gore metsi, motlakase le leokwane di a tura…le tswa go tsaya tshwetso le le Khuduthamaga gore le khansele imports tse di seyong mo Botswana, prices di ile kwa godimo, ditapole they have more than doubled.
O ntse o itse wena, o le moithuti wa tsa itsholelo, gore kgato e fela jaaka e tsewa go nna le tlhaelo ya ditapole, ditlhwatlhwa di tlaa oketsega go menagane gabedi, gararo.

O bo o re go siame ke a tempa, ke a saena, a ba ye go duela madi a a kwa godimo e le Batswana.

E tlaabo e le bomang ka ga ba itse go lema, a ba duele.

Mme o ntse o itse gore fa re ne re letleletse gore se re senang naso a re name re se reka gosele e ka bo dilo tse di sa diragala.
Jaanong re go neela madi ke ao ka tsholofelo ya gore dikgang tse ga re ye go iphitlhela re di bua gape ngwaga o o tlang.

Ke a leboga Modulasetilo.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR PULE): Thank you Modulasetilo.

Re amogetse kopo ya ga Mma Serame.

Tota ke tshwanetse go akgola Mapalamente otlhe gore tota a bo re kile ra se ka ra mo kgopakgopetsa ka sepe bogolo jang re itse gore kana ngwaga o tota re berekela mo budget e e tight.
Ke re mo mafokong ao fa ke a buile a ntse jalo, ke mo eleletsa masego le matlhogonono gore e re fa re ntse re tsweletse 47 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 9100 -APPROPRIATIONS FROM REVENUECommittee of Supply a bone dingwe kana mokgwa mongwe o a ka thusang dikgaolo tsotlhe tsa lefatshe la Botswana ka issues tse di lebaganeng le ditsela, kana ke re bread and butter issues, tse e leng gore ke ditsela tse re nang la tsone mo dikgaolong tsa rona.
Gongwe through Public Private Partnerships (PPP) kana grants tse dingwe fa a ka di bona a re akanyetse, bogolo jang ba re gaufi le Gaborone.

Kana fa o ka lebelela kgaolo ya Kgatleng tota fela go bua nnete e tshwanetse e ka bo e na le ditlhabololo tse gongwe di lekanang le tsa Gaborone, ka gore e gaufi le Gaborone.
Re ka bo re na le hotels, dishopo tse ditona le sengwe le sengwe se se ka tswang se le mo Gaborone, gore fa Gaborone e na le mathata a gore batho bangwe gongwe ga ba kgone go bona ditsompelo ba kgone gore ba tsene fa Mochudi.
Fa o ka lebelela kgaolo ya Kgatleng jaaka ke bua le wena jaana, ga e na project epe e re ka e bitsang re re ke a mega project, e re itseng gore fa di le teng mo Mochudi, e bile e le a declared special economic zone, projects tse re a itse gore ke tsone tse di ka hirang banana ka dipalo tse di kwa godimo.

Jaaka maabane ke letse ke bua ka banana.

E bile re itse gore tota banana ba tlhoka ditiro.


Ke re Mma Serame re akanyetse re le ba kgaolo ya Kgatleng, gore jaaka re bapile le Gaborone jaana re na le mathata a a kanakana a ditsela, o akanye gore o ka re thusa jang.

O re buelele le ministry tse di farologaneng, tse di tshwanetse go re thusa, jaaka tse tsa ditsela, gore ba re agele ditsela kwa kgaolong ya rona.

Ba re baakanyetse ditsela tse di senyegileng tse gongwe di sa tshelwang sekontere.
Ke a itse gore bontsi jwa ditsela tsa rona re di tsentse mo NDP 12.

Kana fa o lebelela NDP 12 go raya gore implementation ya projects tsa teng e tlaa tsaya lebaka.

Re ne re ratile thata gore o kare fela mo ngwageng o o latelang ra tlhola sengwe, la re agela tsela e e ka fa Mochudi East ya Modipane- Mabalamene.

E e leng gore ke tsela e tona, e go ya ka nna tota e ka tlisang ditlhabololo tse di seng kana ka sepe mo kgaolong ya rona ya Kgatleng.
It will promote tourism e re itseng gore ke yone e re tsenyetsang madi a mantsi mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Jaanong tota fela ke ne ke sa batle go bua go le gontsintsi Rra Nkamo.

Ke re I support kopo ya ga Mma Serame, mme ke mo kopa ka tsweetswee gore o kare Modimo o ka mo thusa a tsoga, a re akanyetsa, gore tota a re baakanyetse dikgang tse di tshwanang le tsa ditsela jalo, gore batho ba rona ba kgone gore le bone ba ye kwa mebarakeng.
Ba kgone to produce, ba dire dilo tse ba ka itshetsang ka tsone ba itse gore ba ka kgona go ya go rekisa kwa mebarekeng jalo le jalo.

Ke re ka mafoko a a kalo rraetsho ke re le nna ke ema nokeng Tshutiso ya ga Mma Serame.

Ke a leboga.

MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Tla ke eme fela ke nne mokhutshwane thata ke leboge Tona.

Ke mo lebogele gore re mo ema nokeng mo gore a ye go dirisa madi.
Re mo lebogele go nna pelotelele, a sena go re begela gore o ikaelela go ya go dirisa madi jang.

Re ka tswa re ne re bua dipuo tse dintsi tse di neng di farologane, mme o ne a nna pelotelele go fitlhelela ka nako e re neng re simolola tiro e go tla go tsena mo nakong ya gompieno.

Golo moo mmaetsho ke go go nonotsha mo maikutlong, mo go go feng lesedi la tebelopele le kgatelopele mo maikarabelong a Tautona a go a neetseng.

Go botlhokwa thata gore re bue jalo.


Re batla gore re lebe kwa re go tswang, re se ka ra ne re ipona re nna bagalaledi fela ba kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi go tlaabong go sena motlhala ope mo kgalaletsong e e kanakana e re go e neelang.

O tlaa lemoga gore lefatshe lotlhe ka bophara, boatlhamo jwa Botswana, re na le mathata a ditsela.

Ke batla gore o tsenye leitlho le le tseneletseng, segolo thata mo Kgaolong ya Kgalagadi.
Tla ke buelele ditsela tsotlhe mo lefatsheng ka bophara ka re a di dirisa, o tshwanetse go tsenya leitlho le le tseneletseng go tsaya Ministry wa Ditsela wa o baya gaufi le wena.

Ke dumela gore sengwe le sengwe se na le botshelo jaaka re na le metsi a a nang le botshelo mo shelf.
Sengwe le sengwe fa o tsena shopong se na le botshelo mo shelf, re tshwanetse go simolola gore when we budget mo isagong for ditsela le tse dingwe, re bo re itse gore se na le botshelo jo e tlaa reng nako nngwe, bo tle mo bokhutlong.
Jaanong boTona ba gago botlhe ba tshwanetse ba itse gore projects tse di beetsweng botshelo, e re nako ya botshelo jwa teng bo ise bo tle bokhutlong, ba bo ba setse ba tla kwa go wena go go lebisa mabaka gore o tle o tseye kopo ya bone o e tlise fa Palamenteng gore tsela ya Tsabong-Kokotsha, botshelo jwa yone bo setse bo tlile bokhutlong.

Re bone gore re akanya jang mmaetsho ka dikgang tse di ntseng jalo.

Re tshwentswe thata ke diemo tsa dikokelwana mo lefatsheng la Botswana jotlhe.
Ke buile mo Palamenteng e e fetileng ka botsa gore naare Lekgotla le la World Health Organisation (WHO), a le itebagantse fela le malwetse a a tlhagogang a digajaja?

A ga ba itebaganye le facilities tse Batswana kana mafatshe a a signatories to WHO, gore ba tle ba lemoge gore mme gone batho ba neelwa dithuso mo tikologong e e ntseng jang.
Ke dumela gore Botswana fa go ka tla ga nna le that Clause mo tumalanong eo, re bangwe ba lefatshe lantlha la go tswalelwa gore ga re tseye batho sentle when it comes to environment e ba thusetswang mo go yone.

48 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 9100 -APPROPRIATIONS FROM REVENUECommittee of Supply Sa bobedi se ke neng ke re re se kope ke gone gore extension of electricity is very important lefatshe lotlhe.
A motlakase o neelwe batho, go fokodiwe the cost and batho ba le bantsi ba tlaa kgona to connect.

Re se ka ra lebelela gore ke ntlo e e ntseng jang, mongwe le mongwe o tlaa kgona to connect motlakase, a nne le dijo le lesedi mo go tlaa dirang gore a nne le seriti.

O a bona lebonenyana la motlakase le lone la solar power le re le rekang mo dishopong tsa maChina, golo moo o tlaa bona motsadi go sa kgathalesege gore o na le eng ga a na eng, fela fa lesedi leo le re phatsi!

o ikutlwa a le motlotlo thata.


Ke dilo dingwe tse re tshwanetseng go itebaganya le tsone.

Re eletsa gore o tswelele ka go okeletsa dikhansele madi.

Gakologelwa gore council is a second Government mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Matshelo a batho kwa magaeng re a lebile mo dikhanseleng.
Jaanong fa re ka tswelela re ngaparetse madi re sa a neele dikhansele, re sa di golole, o sa bitse Minister wa Local Government gore a neele dikhansele dithata gore di itsamaise, e le gore sengwe le sengwe di a se itirelela, ga re ka ke ra ba ra suta fa re leng teng.

I am saying this because I was a Councillor for almost all of my life, ke le mo dipolotiking.

I know the blanket e Goromente o motona a apesitseng dikhansele ka yone.
Ga ke ka ke ka tlhoka go bua ka dikhansele, ke tlaa tswelela ke bua ka tsone gore phuthololang, re lese go bua ka molomo.

What does it cost us gore fa re sena go dumalana selo mo Palamenteng kana kae, e bo e re in three months or so down the line, that very ministry be seen e le on the ground e diragatsa se Palamente e se dumalaneng?

Ke eng re tshwanetse go tsaya nako e e kanakana?

Mmaetsho, tla ke tseye nako e Morolong, ke go leboge tlhe kgaitsadiaka.

E re o emelela tsweetswee, o ye go bula borders.


Bula borders motho yo montle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke a di bula.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Your time is up.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Lelope.

MR BROOKS: Ngwana wa lelope ga a lale ka tlala rraetsho.

MR CHAIRPERSON: O lopetse go utlulwe.

The issue that Your Honour wanted to speak on; by the way the Bill was tabled yesterday and it means it shall be ready for discussion on Monday.

Just to give you guidance Morena wa me, as long as I am still here.
Motlotlegi Tona wa tsa Madi le Tlhokomelo Itsholelo, ba kgwe dikgaba Morena wa me ka bokhutshwane.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Chairperson.

Procedure Mr MR CHAIRPERSON: Oh Honourable Kablay!

o a bo o tswa kae ke re ke a… O Morena wa me, bua.

Otherwise, kamoso o tlaabo o sa ntshupe.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ga se Kablay, ke Leuwe sir.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, ke Kablay.

Nnyaa bua sir.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Kablay.

MR KABLAY Thank you Mr Chairperson.


(LETLHAKENG-LEPHEPHE): HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nna ke ne ke kopile procedure.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Leuwe, fa e le gore o batla go bua ikwale mo board.

Please go ahead Honourable Kablay.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke ne ke re procedure Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Oh!

Procedure.

Okay, what is your procedure?

MR LEUWE: Procedure.

Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke ne ke re gongwe o baakanye statement sa gago se o neng o se raya Brooks Mr Chairperson.
E se ka ya nna gore o lopile, e nna gore o lopetse because statements tseo ga di nne sentle; o lopetse.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Oh!

I see.

I am sorry; o lopetse.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Chairperson, ga ke a lopelwa; ke ne ke kopa.

Go na le go kopa le go lopela.

MR BROOKS: Ke araba yo a reng ke lelope ka koo Mr Chairperson.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Brooks, o ne o lopa.

MR CHAIRPERSON: O lopile re utlule.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

Honourable Kablay.


49 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 9100 -APPROPRIATIONS FROM REVENUECommittee of Supply MR KABLAY: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke ne ke re rraetsho, le nna tla ke leboge Tona, re mo eleletse masego le matlhogonolo mo tirong e a e berekang gore re a go bona gore o tla sentle.

Leka Minister gore e re mo kabong madi e e tlang, o akaretse rotlhe ka gore cake e ke ya rona re le Batswana.
Ke tsaya gore fa o ka e re kgaoganya rotlhe re le Batswana ba lefatshe le, re ka leboga thata.

Ke gakolole gore kgaolo e ke e emetseng ke ya khumanego, e e kwadilweng le mo dibukeng tse ditona tsa ga Goromente gore kgaolo ya rona ka sengwe le sengwe; ditlhabololo le go tlhoka ditiro go saletse kwa morago go sa le bogologolo.

Ke gone malatsi a go thenyathenyang, ke gone re bonang mosi.

Jaanong re ne re kopa Minister gore a dikgaolo tsa rona di se ka tsa nna di lebalwa, go itsiwe gore le rona re teng.
Batho bagarona ba a re tshwenya fa ba nna ba utlwa gotwe ditlhabololo di dirwa kwa mme kwa ga bone ga di diriwe.

Minister, re kope thata gore Lephata la Transport le, le tshwanetse gore go bonwe gore le okelediwa jang madi ka gore tota re lela ka ditsela thata mo dikgaolong tsa rona jaaka o utlwa Mapalamente otlhe a bua gore di kgautlhane.

Ga gona botshelo mo dikgaolong tsa rona ka gore batho ga ba tlhabologe; batho ba tlhabololwa ke ditsela, bagwebi ba ya koo ka ditsela.
Jaanong fa mogwebi a akanya gore ke a go laisa stock, kara ya me e ya go thunya mo tseleng owaai!

o a itsapa go ya go bula business mo dikgaolong tse e leng gore ditsela di maswe.

Re ne re kopa jalo Minister.

Re go kopa gore mmaetsho, le nne le bona tota ka melemo le dipilisi.

Rona kwa re nnang teng Madam Minister, re na le clinics mme ga re na chemists.
Kana mo dikgaolong tse dingwe go na le chemists jaanong mathata ke dipilisi le melemo e e leng gore fa gongwe o fitlhele e seo mo clinics tsa rona, mo e leng gore batho ba a re nyatsa gore a Goromente o palelwa fela ke pilisi ya panado, sukiri kana ya high blood.

Fa o le mo dikgaolong tsa rona tse di kgakala bo Diphuduhudu, o ya go tsaya kae pilisi ya high blood le ya sukuri, di seo mo clinic ka gore ga gona chemist e e leng gore motho fa a ka bona thebenyana, o ka ya go reka?
Jaanong ke dilo tse e leng gore Minister, re ne re di kopa gore a di nne gaufi le batho.

Ke matshelo a batho; motho o ka tlhokafala a sa nwe dipilisi tse.

Ke sone se ke neng ke re mmaetsho, ke leke go se kopa mo go wena.

Mo dikgaolong tsa rona jaaka ke ne ke bua gore ke tse e leng gore lehuma le re apere, ke gone le batlang go apoga malatsinyana a. Ke gakolole Minister gore baya leitlho thata Ministry wa Local Government.

Mmaetsho, batho bagarona ba tshela ka Ipelegeng.


Fa Ipelegeng e seo ga gona botshelo.

Fa Ipelegeng takataka e seo ka re bona botshelo ka yone, ke mathata fela.

Dituelo tsa bone fa di tla late ke mathata fela, jaanong re ne re re mmaetsho, bona gore tota maphata le bodiredi ba tshegeditse se Goromente wa rona a reng se dirwe, segolobogolo jang Lephata la Local Government ka gore mo dikgaolong, le lebagane le matshelo a batho; batlhoki le bana ba bone gore a ba a tlhokomelwa.
Ke mathata mo dikgaolong, mo ngwana wa motlhoki a yang sekoleng, kapari e seyo, a kgasitse, borokgwe bo le makgasa, ditlhako di seyo, polish ya polish fela e seyo.

Jaanong dilo tse Minister, re tshwanetse ra baya Local Government lengole, ka e bile ba na le bo Ministers ba le four, go tshwanetse ga emiwa ka dinao gore ba ikgaoganye ka ditiro.
Batho ba a lela mo dikgaolong tsa rona ka Lephata la Local Government, jaaka batho bagarona ba tsewa, Goromente wa rona a ntshitse gore ba tlhokomelwe, ba bo ba sa ye go tlhokomelwa, go bo go sena ope yo o buang sepe.

Le fa o re o a report, ga go na ope yo o kgathalang.

...(Inaudible)... dilo tse Minister, lephata le le re bolaisa batho.
Ga se gore ke nyatsa ope, ga ke nyatse Ministers ba teng, mme fela se ke se kopang ke gore ba tshwanetse ba ema ka dinao, nako e tšhaile mo go bone, a ba eme, ba tsene mo dikgaolong tsa rona, ba bone gore batho ba tshela jang.

Ke a leboga mmaetsho.

Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke a leboga batlotlegi.


Ke le lebogele kemonokeng ya lona, tota gone ka gore dikgang tse re ne re ntse re di buile, kana jaanong se re se dirang ke go garela.

Nte ke le leboge thata ba le kgonneng go akgela gompieno le go nkema nokeng.
I think dikgang tse pedi fela tse ke tlaa fetang ka tsone, ya ntlha ke ya gore tota batlotlegi ba lela gore a ditlhabololo tse re di ntshetsang madi, di diragale, le tse di setseng di le teng, re di ele tlhoko, ke gore go nne le maintenance, re se ka ra aga ditsela, dikole le dipatela a bo e le gore re a di itlhokomolosa.
E nngwe ke ya gore tota batlotlegi ba ntse ba lela ka yone ka lebaka, gore mo gongwe o tlaa fitlhela e ka re re sokametse ntlha e le nngwefela, a re bone gore go ya kwa pele, ditlhabololo tse di anama le lefatshe la Botswana ka bophara, ke ntlha e re e tsayang.
50 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022ORGANISATION 9100 -APPROPRIATIONS FROM REVENUECommittee of Supply E nngwe e le neng le e bua jaaka gotwe ke ikatametse ba Lephata la Ditsela, re a buisana thata le Honourable Segokgo gore re atamelane ka gore ke dumela gore madi a re nang le one, we can do much more ka one go na le jaaka re dira.
Se se raya gore re lese go baya fela mo the traditional method ya go dira projects, re batle ditsela tse dingwe le matlhale a mangwe a go dira dilo ka tsela e e pharologanyo.

Ditsela tse dingwe tota di ngomola pelo.

Dipatela, Local Government le bo Ipelegeng ke dikgang tse ke di utlwileng, le gore tenders a le tsone re di dire ka tsela e e siameng.

Honourable Saleshando o ne o iphitlhile, mme e sa le o ile, o dire o boe, re go emetse, re tle re ye go nwa tee, dikgang tsele tsa rona di tlaa wela.
Ke go utlwile le wena le dikgang tse o reng re tsenye leitlho re wele, gatwe ke go reye ke re le karata e siame.

Re tsenye leitlho, re tlaa tsenya leitlho go bona gore dilo tse di tsamaya sentle.

Honourable yo a neng a ikopela fa, le se ka la mo omanya tlhe batlotlegi, le fa re ne re feta ka yone ka le yone ke kgang ya borders.
Borders tse dingwe tota di sale di tswetswe ka March or April 2020, mme re ntse re tsamaya re di bula ka bonya, ka mabaka a tsa botsogo le ba re buisanang le bone ba mafatshe a re bapileng le bone.

Ka di 1 April, four more borders di tlaa bulwa; ya McCarthy’s Rust, Matsiloje, Platjan le Phitshane Molopo.

Re tlaa tswelela re ntse re buisana ka tse dingwe gore le tsone di tle di bulwe.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ramotswa!

MS SERAME: Iketle pele.

Nte ke leboge batlotlegi ka kemonokeng ya bone, mme ke ema gone fa.
Ke bo ke re Mr Chairperson, I move that the sum of Fifteen Billion, Five Hundred and Thirty-Five Million, Three Hundred and Thirty-Nine Thousand, Six Hundred and Sixty-One Pula (P15,535,339,661) for Organisation 9100 in the Schedule to the Appropriation (2022/2023) Bill, 2022 (No.

2 of 2022) stand part of the Schedule.

I move accordingly.

I thank you Mr Chairperson.


showing Total Estimated Expenditure of Sixty-Eight Billion, Eight Hundred Ninety-Six Million, Eight Hundred and Fifty-Two Thousand, Two Hundred and Eighty-One Pula (P68,896,852,281.00) stand part of the Bill and the sum of Fifteen Billion, Five Hundred and Thirty-Five Million, Three Hundred and Thirty-Nine Thousand, Six Hundred and Sixty- One Pula (P15,535,339,661.00) being Total Estimated Expenditure from the Development Fund Estimates stand part of those estimates.
Question put and agreed to.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Clauses!

Honourable Members, the Appropriation (2022/2023) Bill, 2022 (No.

2 of 2022) has five Clauses and a Schedule.

I shall call successively each Clause of the Bill in accordance with Standing Order 89.11.

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 agreed to.

Clause 3 agreed to.

Clause 4 agreed to.

Clause 5 agreed to.

MR SPEAKER (MR MOATLHODI): Order!

Order!


Honourable Members, I now call upon the Honourable Minister of Finance and Economic Development to report the Bill from Committee.

APPROPRIATION 2022/2023 BILL, 2022 (NO.

2 OF 2022) Bill reported from Committee without amendments.

Third Reading - Forthwith.

Third Reading MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Minister.

APPROPRIATION 2022/2023 BILL, 2022 (NO.


2 OF 2022) HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... (Minister of Finance and Economic Development) MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

Order!

May we have order please, we are talking about Consolidated Fund here.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, the question is that the Appropriation 2022/2023 Bill, 2022 (No.

2 of 2022) be read a third time.

Question put and agreed to.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Total Estimated Expenditure.


Honourable Members, the question is that the Schedule MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I move that the Appropriation 51 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022APPROPRIATION 2022/2023 BILL, 2022 (NO.

2 OF 2022) Third Reading 2022/2023 Bill, 2022 (No.

2 of 2022) be read a third time and do pass.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!


Honourable Members, the question is that the Appropriation 2022/2023 Bill, 2022 (No.

2 of 2022) be read a third time and do pass.

I should order a division now.

Standing Order 62.1, I have to order a division.

Question put and Division Ordered.
CLERK: MEMBER’S NAME His Excellency Dr Masisi Honourable Autlwetse Honourable Balopi Honourable Boko Honourable Brooks Honourable Billy Honourable Dr Dikoloti Honourable Dr Dow Honourable Gare Honourable Dr Gobotswang Honourable Greeff Honourable Hikuama Honourable Kablay Honourable Kapinga Honourable Kekgonegile Honourable Keorapetse Honourable Kereng Honourable Kgafela Honourable Khama Honourable Dr Kwape Honourable Lesedi Honourable Lelatisitswe Honourable Lesaso Honourable Dr Letsholathebe Honourable Letsholo Honourable Leuwe Honourable Lucas Honourable Majaga Honourable Makwinja Honourable Manake Honourable Mangwegape-Healy Honourable Mathoothe Honourable Dr Matsheka Honourable Mmolotsi Honourable Mmusi 52 AYE NO ABSTAIN ABSENT √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022APPROPRIATION 2022/2023 BILL, 2022 (NO.
2 OF 2022) Third Reading Honourable Moabi Honourable Moagi Honourable Modukanele Honourable Mokgethi Honourable Molale Honourable Molao Honourable Molebatsi Honourable Monnakgotla Honourable Morwaeng Honourable Moswaane Honourable Motaosane Honourable Motsamai Honourable Mthimkhulu Honourable Mzwinila Honourable Nkawana Honourable Pule Honourable Rakgare Honourable Ramogapi Honourable Reatile Honourable Regoeng Honourable Saleshando Honourable Segokgo Honourable Serame Honourable Shamukuni Honourable Thiite Honourable Dr Tshabang Honourable Tshere His Honour Tsogwane √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, here are the results of your voting; absent 32; abstain zero; “no” zero; the “ayes” 31.
That means the “ayes” have it.

SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, 2022 (NO.

4 OF 2022) Bill read a third time and passed.

Second Reading MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I have the honour to present the Supplementary Appropriation (2020/2021) Bill, 2022 (No.4 of 2022).
Mr Speaker, Section 119 (4) of the Constitution states that, “where any supplementary expenditure has been approved in a financial year by a resolution of the National Assembly in accordance with the provisions of Subsection (3) of this section, a Supplementary Appropriation Bill shall be introduced in the National Assembly, not later than the end of the financial year next following, providing for the appropriation of the sums so approved”.
Mr Speaker, during the 2020/2021 financial year, the National Assembly approved the sum of Two Billion, Five Hundred and Sixty-Three Million, One Hundred and Thirty-Five Thousand, Seven Hundred and Forty Pula (P2, 563, 135, 740.00) through Financial Paper No.1 of 2020/2021 under the Consolidated Fund.

53 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, 2022 (NO.
4 OF 2022) Second Reading Mr Speaker, the Financial Paper No.1 entailed reallocations of already approved budget and allocation of additional funds to finance COVID-19 related expenditures under the Ministries of Finance and Economic Development; Health and Wellness; Basic Education as well as other urgent requirements under Ministries of Agricultural Development and Food Security, and Transport and Communications.
However, the final accounts for the financial year 2020/2021 show that a total amount of Two Billion, Two Hundred and Eighty-Seven Million, Six Hundred and Ninety-Nine Thousand, One Hundred and Fifty- Eight Pula (P2 287 699 158) was spent in excess of the amounts already appropriated under the Consolidated Fund through the Appropriation (2020/2021) Act, 2020 - Act No.

2 of 2020.
2 of 2020.

Four ministries incurred expenditures in excess of the sums originally appropriated through the above Act in the financial year 2020/2021.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development was originally allocated a sum of One Billion and Two Million, One Hundred and Forty-Two Thousand and Seventy Pula (P1 002 142 070).
The allocation was augmented by a supplementary budget of One Billion, Two Hundred and Seventy Million, Four Hundred and Eighty-Two Thousand, Eight Hundred Pula (P1 270 482 800).

Out of this amount, One Billion, One Hundred and Forty-Eight Million, Five Hundred and Twenty-Three Thousand, Two Hundred and Four Pula (P1 148 523 204) was incurred, hence the request to appropriate the amount.
Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agricultural Development and Food Security was originally allocated One Billion, Three Hundred and Eighty-Seven Million, Eight Hundred and Six Thousand, Two Hundred and Thirty Pula (P1 387 806 230).

The allocation was augmented by a supplementary budget of Fifty-Two Million, Six Hundred and Fifty-Two Thousand, Nine Hundred and Forty Pula (P52 652 940).
Out of this amount, the ministry spent Fifty-One Million, Two Hundred and Twenty-Eight Thousand, Five Hundred and Ninety- Nine Pula (P51 228 599), which is being proposed for appropriation.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Basic Education was originally allocated a budget of Nine Billion, and Thirteen Million, Four Hundred and Sixty Thousand, Nine Hundred and Fifty Pula (P9 013 460 950).

The allocation was augmented by a supplementary budget of Two Hundred and Forty Million Pula (P240 000 000).
Out of this amount, One Hundred and Sixty- Four Million, Nine Hundred and Sixty-Two Thousand, Five Hundred and Fifty Pula (P164 962 550) was incurred, hence the need to appropriate the amount.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health and Wellness was originally allocated Seven Billion, Seven Hundred and Thirty Million, One Hundred and Forty-Seven Thousand, Three Hundred and Twenty Pula (P7 730 147 320).

The allocation was augmented by a supplementary budget of One Billion Pula (P1 000 000 000) for that year.
Out of this amount, the ministry incurred expenditure amounting to Nine Hundred and Twenty- Two Million, Nine Hundred and Eighty-Four Thousand, Eight Hundred and Five Pula (P922 984 805), hence the proposed appropriation.
Mr Speaker, in accordance with Section 119 (4) of the Constitution, a Supplementary Appropriation Bill is required to cover the total expenditure of Two Billion, Two Hundred and Eighty-Seven Million, Six Hundred and Ninety-Nine Thousand, One Hundred and Fifty- Eight Pula (P2 287 699 158), which was approved by a resolution of the National Assembly, but not included in the Appropriation (2020/2021) Act, 2020 – Act No.2 of 2020.
Mr Speaker, in passing the Supplementary Appropriation (2020/2021) Bill, 2022 - Bill No.

4 of 2022, the Honourable House will be formally ratifying its earlier approval of the Supplementary Expenditures through Financial Paper No.

1 of 2020/2021 in accordance with the law.

I, therefore, move that the Supplementary Appropriation (2020/2021) Bill, 2022 - Bill No.4 of 2022 be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


MR SPEAKER: The matter is open for debate, but if no member stands up, I shall call upon the Honourable Minister to respond and close the chapter.

LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR SALESHANDO): Procedure.

A mme tsamaiso ga se gore go ka bo go bua ba Finance and Estimates pele?

MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, ba sale ba buile maloba rraetsho.

HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.
Mma ke tseye sebaka se ke dumedise Batlotlegi Mapalamente le 54 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, 2022 (NO.

4 OF 2022) Second Reading Batswana kwa magaeng.

Ke bo ke leboge thata Tona ka bokgoni jo a bo supileng mo go tsamaiseng tsa merero ya madi mo lefatsheng le la rona.

Lephata le ga se lephata le le motlhofo go le tsamaisa Mr Speaker.

dirisiwa.
dirisiwa.

O tshwanetse go leba dibuka tse, o bue le ba ba neng ba kopile madi a mooketsa ba se ka ba ya go a dirisa kgotsa a sala fela a le mantsi a sa dirisiwa.

Ke dilo tse o tshwanetseng go di lebelela Tona.

Ke tseye sebaka se ke leboge ba ba re fitlhisitseng fa re leng teng, batlotlegi gore ba bo ba rebotse ka nako e go neng go le letlhoko le letona, madi a gompieno re rurifatsang gore ke boammaaruri re a dirisitse ka fa tsamaisong e re a dirisitseng ka yone.
Thulaganyo e e supa sentle jaaka Tona Molao a ne a bua gore e ka fa molaong.

E diretswe tse re sa di lemogang gore di tlaa tlhagoga.

Ka thulaganyo e, re a itse gore re tlhagogetswe ke mathata a segajaja a a neng a re tshwarisitse bothata.

Re lemoga sentle gore re ne ra thusega ka tebelopele ya go nna jalo e bile ra boloka matshelo a Batswana.
Le bone ba ba neng ba amegile ka dingwe ditsela tse di farologanyeng, e se fela ka gore ba bo ba ne ba le mo botlhokong jwa bolwetse jo, ra thusa ka fa re neng re thusa ka teng.

Tona, kana le fa o ikanne wa bo a itoma sejabana maloba fa o rola pego gore le goka, nako e e tlang ga o ka ke wa dumalana le thulaganyo ya madi a mooketsa, ee, ka re mme o re thuse fa go nna le mathata.

Gone go diretswe gore fa go nna le mathata lefatshe le kgone go bolokwa.
Fa lefatshe le ka wela mo mathateng a a tshwanang a re neng re wetse mo go one, o re thuse o boele gape kwa Palamenteng o tle go kopa.

O se ka wa nna ditlhong gore o ne o itomile sejabana, itse fela gore e tlaabo e le mathata a a tlhagogetseng lefatshe a a tlhokanang le gore go engwe ka dinao go dirisiwe melao e e leng teng go bonwe gore go ka bolokwa lefatshe ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ga ke rate thata madi a mooketsa fa ke sale ke tsena mo Palamenteng mme ke a itse botlhokwa le mathata.
A a se ka a dirisiwa fela fa go sa tlhokafalang teng.

Fa go tlhokafalang teng tota ka boammaaruri go le dipitlagano, lephata le feletswe ke madi mme le tshwanetse go dira ditiro dingwe tse di botlhokwa tse di ka sireletsang matshelo a batho, go a tshwanela gore go thusiwe ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Tona.

Re ipeetse zero budgeting.


Se se botlhoko fela ke gore fa gongwe fa madi a ntse a kopiwa jaaka o bala, maphata a mangwe e bo e le gore ga a ka a ya go dirisa madi a ba a kopileng otlhe kana bogolo fela 80 or 90 per cent ya madi a ba a kopileng a mooketsa.

Gone foo ke gone fa e leng gore go nna botlhokonyana ka gore go raya gore go a bo go ne go sa tsamaya sentle.

Fela fa madi a kopiwa e le a mooketsa, a tshwanetse gore a ye go Ga ke mafoko mantsi ka gore ke madi a re setseng re a dirisitse.
Batswana ba utlwe gore fa re dirisitse madi a mooketsa ka fa tsamaisong ya molao, re a boa fa kabo ya madi eo e wela go tla go rurifatsa gore ka boammaaruri budget e re e fetisitseng ka ngwaga wa 2021/22 e ne e na le madi a mooketsa.

E bile Tona, ga se gone moo fela, re na le bothata jwa tiriso ya madi e e fetileng.

Ke yone fa gongwe e e tlang e re pitlaganya.

Fa re nna le deficit, go a bo go supafala gore go dirisitswe madi a a fetileng a a neng a baakanyeditswe.
Go bo go raya gore supplementary di a tshwanela gore dibuka di tle di nne sentle go bonwe gore budget eo ka e ne e fetisitswe e se ka bomo, madi ao a kopelwa e le supplementary gore go duelelwe madi a a tlaabong a setse a dirisitswe.

Tse dingwe supplementaries di tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Ke tle ke leboge Tona, ke bo ke go eleletse masego le matlhogonolo gore a re nne lesego re se ka ra tla ra nna le supplementaries mo ngwageng o, re se ka ra nna le mathata a a tlaa batlang gore re boele kwano gape re batle supplementaries.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.
Mma ke supe Tona gore Tshutiso ya madi jaaka o e kopa e le madi a a setseng a dirisitswe, re mo nakong e e leng gore ga re na se re ka se dirang, ga go na yo o ka ganang, ka gore golo fa re bua ka madi a a setseng a fetile, a dirisitswe.

Tona, ke kope mo go wena gore, you know, moving forward, dilo tse tsa supplementary budgets gongwe re tle re leke go di hema thata ke gore ke dumela gore re tshwanelwa ke gore kgang ya zero based budgeting, especially mo maphateng a a rileng, let us emphasise it .
Go na le maphata a ga Goromente a tota letlhoko la bone le ka tlhokang fela fa ngwaga mongwe kana dingwaga dingwe go ka simololwa from zero base.

Fa o tsaya Lephata le tshwana la Tertiary Education, Research and Development, ke gore ke lephata le Minister tota fela le tlhokang budget e e seng kana ka sepe.
Gompieno jaana lephata le le nang le kgwetlho ya gore go na le bana ba e leng gore were sponsored koo ba ba neng ba se ka ba dira sentle, a bo batsadi ba bone ba ba thusa gore ba fete ngwaga that they failed.

Goromente fa a tshwanelwa ke to take over go a pala, ka gore jaanong budget ya Ministry of Tertiary Education ga e letle gore 55 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, 2022 (NO.

4 OF 2022) Second Reading e thuse bana bao.


E le gore ke bana ba Goromente a neng a setse a ba file sponsorship, ke fela gore ngwana o ne a se ka a dira sentle.

Jaanong kana tsamaiso ya ga Goromente ke gore, fa ngwana a sa dira sentle motsadi o tshwanetse gore a mo duelele.
Gompieno fa o ka lebelela bana ba batsadi ba neng ba ba dueletse ba solofetse gore Goromente will take over, a bo a sa kgone, bana ba ba mo depression e e seng kana ka sepe ka gore batsadi ga ba sa tlhole ba ka kgona go tsweledisa bana bao.

Jaanong ke sone se e leng gore dilo tse di ntseng jaana Tona tse, tota ke case tse re tshwanelwang ke go di emela ka dinao.

Le fa gotwe budget e a tlhaela sengwe se tshwanelwa ke go dirwa gore bana ba ye kwa dikoleng ba ye go fetsa.
Kana ba dirisa a revolving fund e ba tshwanelwang ke gore ba fetse, ba bereke, ba tle ba boe ba duele madi a ga Goromente.

Fa re ba tlogela ba felela mo tseleng, jaaka bontsi jwa bone ba felela mo tseleng, kana go raya gore Goromente will never be able to recover madi a revolving fund.
Jaanong ke sone se ke neng ke re Tona, fa e le gore this thing ya zero based budgeting e a pala mo maphateng a mangwe, a ko re lekeng go bona gore at least kwa Tertiary Education kwa e leng gore go critical, we are dealing le matshelo a bana, our future generation, re eme ka dinao.

Go bona gore go ka dirwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang gore bana ba be sponsored Tona.

Gape le kwa Basic Education tota fela re tshwanelwa ke go bona gore ga re nne half hearted about trying to educate our children.
We are half hearted gompieno Tona ka lebaka la gore fa o lebelela material tse bana ba kileng ba bo ba di dirisa, they used to have material fela sentle o o lekanang.

Mo malatsing a gompieno bana ba tlhaelelwa ke materials, they share dibuka ba le bo five.

Ke gore go kopakopane fela Tona ka lebaka la go tlhoka budget.
Ke sone se ke neng ke kopa gore, ka gore lefatshe la rona re dumela mo goreng thuto ke investment, a re lekeng gore bogolo fa e le gore mo maphateng a mangwe ga re kgone go dira zero based budgeting, at least for Ministry of Basic Education le Ministry of Tertiary Education, kwa re baakanyang botshelo jwa ngwana jwa kamoso, a re lekeng go ipheleletsa Tona re ntshe madi.

Fa re ka ntsha madi jalo le tsone dilo tse tsa bo Supplementary Budget di tlaabo di sa tlhokafale.
Kana gompieno maphata a because go na le ceilings tse di a bong di tswa kwa go lona ba felela ba fokoditse, mme e le gore dilo tse ba di tlhokang ke tsa madi a a seng kana ka sepe.

Jaanong fa ba tshwanelwa ke to adhere to ceiling e le e ntshitseng go raya gore ba felela ba kgaotse dilo tse e leng gore they are critical.Go bo go ba patika gore batle ba kope supplementary budget.
E bo e nna o kare ba ne ba sena tlhaloganyo, mme e le gore tota go ne go sena gore ba ka reng, ba iphitlhela ba le mo seemong se matshelo a bana ba Batswana a mo matsogong a bone.

Ga ba ka ke ba latlhelela fela.

In fact Committee ya Finance and Estimates e ka nna ya ba raya e re, ke eng le bua gore students sponsorship was unforeseen, mme e le gore le ne le ntse le itse gore le na le bana ba ba kae ba ba tshwanelwang ke to be sponsored?
Le na le ba le kae ba ba tshwanetse to progress fela ka tsela e e ntseng jalo?

The answer from the Tertiary Education Ministry e tlaa nna gore, tota ka boammaaruri we knew, this thing is not unforeseen, but what could we have done.

Tota Tona ke re, ka ke le Modulasetilo wa Komiti ya Thuto mo Palamenteng, ke kope jalo ke kopele maphata a me a a mabedi a, gore a ko le lekeng go tlhabolola budget ya one gore matshelo a bana ba rona a tle a babalesege.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


MS SERAME: Am I not responding to the debate Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Quickly do ngwanaka.

Ke tlaa go fa two minutes ka gore nako e re siile motho wa me.

MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ka bokhutshwane ke leboga Your Honour le Honourable Mmolotsi, dikgang tsa bone tse pedi, very quickly.

Ya ntlha ke gore, ka boammaaruri tota kgang ya supplementary budget nako e nngwe batho ba kopa supplementary budget ba bo batla ba sa e dirise.
Secondly, I was saying tota re lekile bojotlhe jwa rona go neela ministries kopo tsa bone tsa madi.

Therefore, ga ke itse lebaka lepe le le ka dirang gore batle go kopa supplementary.

Unless tota e le yone an emergency e e ka tshwanang le bo COVID or something like that, e e leng gore ga go na ope yo a neng a ka e lebelela.

Ke sone se ke neng ke leka go se gatelela.

Le tsone supplementaries tota nako e nngwe re di kopa re ne re ka di gapoga.
Ya bobedi ya ga Honourable Mmolotsi, tota o buile sentle wa bua ka revolving fund.

Kana revolving fund re bua Sekgoa jaanong mo Palamenteng, ga go direge.

Kgang ke yone eo.

Why re sa dire gore revolving fund e nne a truly revolving fund, ga bo go dira gore re kgone go duelela bana sekole jaaka go le maleba.
Mr Speaker, ke tlaa kopa gore nako nngwe fela re tseye nako re ye go bua ka supplementaries le matsapa otlhe a a leng teng a a tsamaelanang le dikgang tsa supplementary, ka gore, ga re ka ke ra kgona go a bua re a fetsa ka there are many dynamics and areas tse tota ke dumelang gore we can do much better.

56 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, 2022 (NO.

4 OF 2022) Second Reading Ka mafoko a a kalo ke a leboga Mr Speaker.
Kwa bofelong ke re, I therefore move that the Supplementary Appropriation (2020/2021) Bill, 2022 (No.4 of 2022) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

MR SPEAKER: We are going into the Third Reading, the final stage.

In terms of Standing Order 94.1, when the question for the Second Reading of the Supplementary Appropriation Bill has been agreed to, the Bill shall not be committed.
I therefore shall forthwith, without allowing amendment or debate put the question that the Bill be now read a third time and do pass.

Third Reading SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, 2022 (NO.4 OF 2022) (Minister of Finance and Economic Development) MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

the question is that the Supplementary Appropriation (2020/2021) Bill, 2022 (No.4 of 2022) be read a third time and do pass.

MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Thank you Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, I move that the Supplementary Appropriation (2020/2021) Bill, 2022 (No.4 of 2022) be read a third time and do pass.

MR SPEAKER: Procedurally, we have to vote.

Standing Order 62.1 (c), I should order a division.

We have to vote quickly.

Question put and Division Ordered.
CLERK: MEMBER’S NAME His Excellency Dr Masisi Honourable Autlwetse Honourable Balopi Honourable Boko Honourable Brooks Honourable Billy Honourable Dr Dikoloti Honourable Dr Dow Honourable Gare Honourable Dr Gobotswang Honourable Greeff Honourable Hikuama Honourable Kablay Honourable Kapinga Honourable Kekgonegile Honourable Keorapetse Honourable Kereng Honourable Kgafela Honourable Khama Honourable Dr Kwape Honourable Lesedi AYE NO ABSTAIN ABSENT √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ 57 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, 2022 (NO.
4 OF 2022) Third Reading Honourable Lelatisitswe Honourable Lesaso Honourable Dr Letsholathebe Honourable Letsholo Honourable Leuwe Honourable Lucas Honourable Majaga Honourable Makwinja Honourable Manake Honourable Mangwegape-Healy Honourable Mathoothe Honourable Dr Matsheka Honourable Mmolotsi Honourable Mmusi Honourable Moabi Honourable Moagi Honourable Modukanele Honourable Mokgethi Honourable Molale Honourable Molao Honourable Molebatsi Honourable Monnakgotla Honourable Morwaeng Honourable Moswaane Honourable Motaosane Honourable Motsamai Honourable Mthimkhulu Honourable Mzwinila Honourable Nkawana Honourable Pule Honourable Rakgare Honourable Ramogapi Honourable Reatile Honourable Regoeng Honourable Saleshando Honourable Segokgo Honourable Serame Honourable Shamukuni Honourable Thiite Honourable Dr Tshabang Honourable Tshere His Honour Tsogwane √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ MR SPEAKER: Order!
Here are the results of your voting: Absent 33; Abstain 0; Noes 0; Ayes 30.

That means the 58 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, 2022 (NO.

4 OF 2022) Third Reading Ayes have it.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, the Absents have it.

MR SPEAKER: Ke sone se o bonang Lucas a tshameka ka koloi.

A ko o didimale.

Bill read a third time and passed.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!


Before I call upon His Honour Leader of this House, let me remind you of what Chinua Achebe once said, “I praise myself for having been able to jump safely and effectively from the tallest iyoko tree.” This is my gratitude to all of you Honourable Members, for having afforded us to pass this important instrument.

Le kamoso bagaetsho; well-done Mapalamente.

Fa ke ne ke le kwa Tonota, ke ka bo ke bina ke itumelela tiro e le e dirileng.

Thank you very much Honourable Members.


Your Honour the Vice President (VP), please move a Motion of adjournment.

MOTION ADJOURNMENT LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Well done Mr Speaker.

Thank you very much.

Indeed motho ga re fa a tlogetswe ka tiro, a itshupe gore o na le bokgoni.

Ka go rialo batlotlegi, ke kopa gore gongwe jaanong re dumalane gore Ntlo e re eme gone fa, ka nako e setse e tšhaile.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 6:00 p.m. until Friday 25th March, 2022 at 9:00 a.m.

Question put and agreed to.

59 Hansard No 205Thursday 24th March, 2022SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, 2022 (NO.
4 OF 2022) Third Reading HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B.

B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae 60 Hansard No 205