Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698942656853.pdf (South Africa)
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 1 TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF MINI-PLENARY SESSION – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER ____ Members of the mini-plenary session met in the National Assembly Chamber at 14:00.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
APPROPRIATION BILL Debate on Vote No 2 – PARLIAMENT: The SPEAKER: Well, I guess it’s the right occasion on the last budget vote to hear malibongwe [praise] from hon Steenhuisen.

[Laughter.]

Deputy Speaker, hon members and distinguished guests, good afternoon.

We are honoured to have in our midst today, members UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 2 of the Mandela and Sisulu families; and we welcome them warmly.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

I rise to table the last budget vote of the 5th Parliament.

This budget is before us at an important time for reflecting on the journey we have travelled in this term as well as looking forward to the next elections and beyond.

The contributions of giants who led us, our beloved Tata Nelson Mandela and Mama Albertina Sisulu, who were born a century ago this year, loom large in our memories.
I clearly recall the 9th of May 1994, as the nation and the world, watched Ma Sisulu proudly nominating Madiba as the first President of a free South Africa, a day which finally fulfilled the promise of the Freedom Charter that “the People Shall Govern!” As a new nation that is still emerging, it is incumbent upon us, to remember and honour the path chartered by Madiba, Ma Sisulu, Mama Winnie Mandela, Zola Skweyiya and others so that future generations could live in dignity and everyone could have the opportunity to realise their potential.
Our Parliament is part of their legacy.

We have lost the UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 3 opportunity to be physically with them, to be guided by their passion and insight, but their wisdom will steer us on forever.
Hon members, as we work through the last year of the 5the Parliament, we are called upon to reflect on where we find ourselves as a country relative to the many goals we have set for ourselves, in our Constitution, the National Development Plan, NDP, and our Strategic Plan.

I can say without fear of contradiction that in this term, some lasting results were achieved in a number of areas.
As the High-Level Panel Report asserts, while we still face the systemic challenges of undoing the socio-economic legacy of apartheid, we must also take pride in our remarkable achievements and milestones including a functioning democracy with credible institutions of governance, based on a culture of human rights and most importantly, the Will of the People!

Of course, much more must be done.


Our democracy still needs to fine tune the transition between the change of leadership in the leading political party and government.

The beginning of 2018 was a bit bumpy because of UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 4 this.

President Cyril Ramaphosa had been elected in December as President of the ANC.

We had to delay the State of the Nation Address to finalise some procedures before we could go on to SONA.
Hon members will recall that 10 years ago we experienced a similar hitch though it differed in the detail.

As the Speaker, I appreciate the effort and co-operative spirit of the leadership of the Presidency and the Office of the Chief Justice in working well with the Presiding Officers to ensure the final resolution of matters for all of South Africa.

Our democracy is growing and maturing.

We use our Constitutional institutions, not violence to settle our issues or differences.
The relationship between the three arms of state by its very nature can be characterised as dynamic and robust.

During this term, the Heads of the three arms have met on several occasions to consciously cultivate an understanding of each other’s roles and challenges.

We are bound together in an on- going shared endeavour and working relationship to realise clean governance, deepening and further developing our democracy.
We have agreed that when next we meet at this level UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 5 we shall bring along delegations in order to broaden the dialogues, with a view to foster deeper understandings of our respective branches, but conscious, not to intrude on each other’s competences.
Hon members, at the start of the term in 2014, we crafted a Strategic Plan for our goals and objectives to be realised as we build an effective people’s Parliament that is responsive to the needs of our people.

We resolved, among other things, to strengthen our performance and efficiency at law-making and oversight, to deepen public participation, and to improve and expand the administrative services available to members.
Notwithstanding our challenges, we have made significant strides in each of these areas.

This being Parliament’s Budget Vote, it is prudent that I begin by first commending the institution for the clean audits it has been receiving for the 2014-15, 2015-16 and 2016-17 financial years.

[Applause.]

Please go ahead and applaud.

[Applause.]

This was a result of improved implementation of effective and efficient internal control systems.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 6 With respect to our Legislative functions, and with the assistance of Parliament’s Legal Service Office, we have passed 74 bills emanating from the executive and 12 Private Members Bills.

There are though quite a number of bills still before us.

Amongst these were the Labour Laws Amendment Bill, a Private Members Bill introduced by hon Dudley of the ACDP, which addressed parental leave and proposes equal treatment for all.
Considering the legislative workload, we need to consider how we reinforce the advisory and drafting services available to members and committees.

As legal drafting is a scarce skill, Parliament should review the package offered to attract and retain legal experts.

Another high point for the Assembly was the adoption of legislation to regulate funding for political parties.
The manner and transparency of funding are paramount in the context of building public confidence and integrity in the political system.

We have agreed with the Executive through the Leader of Government Business that legislation must reach us by no later than 30 May 2018.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 7 House Chairperson Frolick will share further details on the action plan intended to process legislation by committees within the remainder of the term.
I hasten to say, however, that the number of bills passed is only one indicator of our performance and, as such, must be weighed against the quality of our engagements and the impact of the laws themselves on the ground.

Honourable Members, as the High-Level Panel Report and our oversight activities highlight, despite very good legislation, implementation remains our Achilles heel.

As Parliament, it is our duty to step up our monitoring and evaluation function in pursuance of our people centred agenda.
We must accept that failure in service delivery does not just reflect badly on the part of our government, but speaks also to the rigour of our oversight and accountability measures.

Prior to our first elections, Madiba said that, “If there is a single lesson to be drawn from Africa’s post-colonial history, it is that accountable government is good government.” We have done our best and lived up to our objective of becoming a People’s Parliament.
We have seen examples of excellence UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 8 emerging, specifically with respect to Parliament’s oversight inquiries and investigative capacity.

The probes surrounding corporate governance at the SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, and allegations of state capture at other state entities have not only brought to light some governance failures but are also beginning to yield changes and action against those found to be compromised in one way or another.
We must continue to build on best practices in the exercise of this duty.

We are also beginning to see improvements in the ability of portfolio committees’ to oversee the budget.

The appointment of specialised staff to support Committees is yielding meaningful results.

Thus far, we are the only Parliament that has the ability to amend a budget of the executive.

We thank the chairpersons of committees for their diligence and commitment.
Hon members, it is unfortunate that while South Africa was once an international model of best practice for gender budgeting, we reached a point where the gender responsive budgeting initiative fell apart.

We cannot accept that we once were an international model of best practice on this, but that UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 9 we are now at a point where gender responsive budgeting is only taking place in isolated incidents.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

We must support the Multi-Party Women’s Caucus initiative to re-ignite gender responsive budgeting and planning.

By the end of the 5th Parliament a policy to guide how budgeting and planning from a gender perspective should be in place as part of our legacy project.

Committees in Parliament will not be performing adequately if they are not collecting the requisite information to review revenue projections and assess budget appropriations in terms of their gendered implications.
I shall repeat what I stated last year: Gender Responsive Budgeting is non-negotiable and I expect movement in this regard.

[Applause.]

The SPEAKER (Contd): Since the establishment of the Parliamentary Budget Office, Parliament’s ability to engage with, and interrogate, both budgets and budgetary outcomes has been significantly elevated.
We must continue to build the support available to committees so that they play a proactive role in the budget process as envisaged by the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act.

We have highlighted to the Minister of Finance the need for this UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 10 Office to be funded in order for its support to be extended to all portfolio committees.
We take this opportunity to remind the Minister of Finance of the Office of Institutions Supporting Democracy.

This Office is part of the Speaker’s Office and has a large volume of work which the Deputy Speaker will elaborate on.

The 5th Parliament has also appointed a new Public Protector, Commissioners at the South African Human Rights Commission, Gender Commission and other institutions.
All these appointments were, as recommended in the Kader Asmal Report, subjected to public scrutiny and involvement.

Conceptual work towards standardising the appointment procedures of the Institute for Social Developments, ISDs, is underway.

The Office of Institutions Supporting Democracy, OISD, which is the link between Parliament and ISDs, is also finalising a report on the proposed amalgamation of some of the bodies as well as the proposed shifting of ISD budgets to Parliament.
The processing of ISD reports are also improving, with at least 80% of ISD reports discussed by committees.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 11 Concerning the relationship between Parliament and the executive, I should acknowledge that there have been some efforts to address concerns expressed about the attendance of Ministers in the House.
Our work with the Leader of Government Business, LOGB, is yielding good results in this regard and I can confirm that practical steps are being taken to better co- ordinate our work.

The Office of the Leader of Government Business has now introduced a roster for Ministers to ensure improved planning of diaries based on clusters.

We thank the LOGB for his support in this regard.

Members of the House must be better able to exercise due diligence and oversight over government.
Hon members, we are enjoined by the Constitution to work collaboratively across spheres.

A significant body of work has been undertaken by the Legislative Sector, led by the Speakers Forum, which is intended to, among other things, promote co- operation, develop benchmarks, and best practice for the sector.
The forum has implemented a number of initiatives to enhance the capacity of the sector, including the introduction of a UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 12 sector-wide oversight and accountability model and the Public Participation Model.

As members will recall, the work of the High-Level Panel was also initiated by the legislative sector through the Speaker’s Forum.
The obligation placed on Parliament to involve the public in all its affairs has received sustained focus in the 5th Parliament, with the introduction of the Public Participation Sector Model, which emphasises meaningful public engagement.

Further adjustments, to the Model are expected in line with the recommendations of the High Level Panel report.

I can report that, over the past four years, the institution undertook 82 oversight visits and held 29 public hearings, out there.
There is, always room to improve in the level of engagements with our people and communities especially our outreach activities, to rural and marginalized communities.

Ongoing community protests in various parts of the country are an indication that something is inadequate.

We should ask ourselves whether a fresh look or approach to constituency work might help.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 13 As we provide more time on the programme for members to spend in their constituencies, we must critically assess the support to members in their constituency offices- and the interface between constituency offices and the Parliamentary Democracy Offices in the few provinces where they exist.

This is a matter that I would encourage the 6th Parliament to explore further.
I am also pleased to inform members that the Speaker’s Forum has agreed on the need for the legislative sector to regulate and cohere on governance matters, specifically those related to ethics and integrity.

It is envisaged that a national integrity commission will ultimately be established for this purpose.
The Speaker’s Forum has also proposed the introduction of Ethics and Integrity Legislation, as a contribution towards building integrity in state institutions, mindful that there is no single formula for resolving the often complex and difficult ethical tensions that politicians face.

This said, as individual members, we must live up to the expectations of the people and always maintain the highest ethical standards.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 14 I have been informed that congratulations are in order to all hon members for declaring your private interests in Parliament’s register last year.

[Applause.]

As our democracy matures, new challenges emerge that require reflection and review of the way we conduct our business and how we conduct ourselves as public representatives.

At times during this term, the House experienced unprecedented instances of disorder.
It is our hope that this will stay firmly in the past.

Since adoption, the new rules have since been applied, and proven beneficial.

Thankfully, the quality of debate and order in our proceedings has certainly been improved.

Pursuant to a court judgment, additional work to give effect to Section 89 of the Constitution will shortly be finalised.
Speaking of healthy debate in this House, years ago Ma Sisulu cautioned that we, as public representatives should, at all times be receptive and responsive to the needs of our people.

Notably, in the 5th Parliament 12 snap debates were held.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 15 The consultation process towards agreeing on how best to accelerate land reform will benefit from the past weekend’s Land Summit and we expect next weekend’s ANC National Executive Committee (NEC) to take us even further.

However, suffice to say land grabs should not be condoned.

[Applause.]

The world’s problems are deeply interconnected.

Countries and their citizens are exposed to economic crises emanating from far away from them.
As the 5th Parliament we have assumed increased responsibility in international relations.

We continue to work with global parliamentary bodies such as the Inter Parliamentary Union, IPU, and Common Wealth Parliamentary Association, CPA, to build a closer and more effective relation between Parliaments.

We use the opportunity to improve our capacities to deal with the challenges of our peoples and our respective institutions.
We are honoured that the next session of the IPU in October 2018, will honour the centenary celebrations of Tata Nelson Mandela.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 16 I wish to congratulate the new Members of our Parliament who were recently sworn in at the Pan-African Parliament.

Similarly, those of us who are members of the SADC Parliamentary Forum must continue to push for the forum to become a fully-functional Regional Parliament.
Note that we are the only region of Africa that does not have a Regional Parliament.

In the 6th term, we should consider the establishment of friendship groups with a few parliaments, especially those countries with whom we share values or those who stood in solidarity with us.

Thirty years ago, the battle of Cuito Cuanavale, which is said to have been the largest battle waged on African soil since World War II, culminated in the freedom we are enjoying today.
Lest we forget, the Cubans fought alongside us at the most critical moment and it was through their selfless efforts that apartheid was finally defeated.

[Applause.]

It is for that reason that I am considering an invitation from the Cuban Parliament to lead a Parliamentary delegation to Cuba sometime this year.

[Applause.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 17 As Parliament, we also have an obligation to stand with the people of Palestine.
We join the government and the rest of the world in condemning the senseless massacre of men, women and children by the Israeli government.

With respect to the proposal of relocating Parliament from Cape Town to Pretoria, an external service provider Pamoja (Pty) Ltd, has been appointed to conduct a six-month socioeconomic and impact study commencing this month.

This is a matter that we will hand over to the 6th Parliament.
Since we started implementing the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, Parliament’s budget is overseen by the Joint Standing Committee on the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, FMPPLA, which reports to this House.

I wish to thank the committee for its thorough scrutiny and constructive guidance.

I assure members that the decisions of this committee will be duly implemented.
Parliament’s 2018 budget proposals are again directed at meeting our strategic priorities.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 18 For the 2018-19 financial year Parliament’s actual allocation is just over R2,4 Billion.

We requested an amount of R2,8 billion from Treasury as budget estimates.

We thus have a shortfall R476 million.

Hon members must be mindful that the budget also includes medical aid, and salaries of members, amongst others.
Parliament has a direct charge to the National Revenue Fund, as a provision for member’s remuneration, which is a total of just over R493 million.

Hon members, as we have highlighted during this term, Parliament has continuously faced significant budget shortfalls, which have direct implications for the performance of our constitutional obligations.
As the legislative sector, we have called for a paradigm shift in the way the budget is allocated and we are working to address this matter, by amongst other direct engagement with the Minister of Finance and Treasury staff.
We wish to report that, following a report by Parliament’s Audit Committee, unfortunately, the Secretary to Parliament, UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 19 Mr Mgidlana is facing disciplinary action related to, inter alia, alleged contraventions of the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, Parliaments policies, as well as the National Road Traffic Act.
An independent chairperson has been appointed and an external initiator was appointed to lead evidence.

I shall report to the House on completion of the process.

Hon members, it is critical for Parliament to take care of its staff and ensure that relations between management and staff are as harmonious as possible.

Regular engagements between management and organised labour are ongoing, on a range of issues.

Two relationship-building summits between management and staff were facilitated by the CCMA.
I have since learnt that staffs are happy with the introduction of the Group Life Scheme for all Parliamentary employees and their immediate families.

This will go a long way in bringing relief to employees and their families in the event of bereavements.

Hon members, as we approach the sunset of the Fifth Parliament, we do so cognisant that we have to reflect on our UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 20 progress but plan for the new dawn.
The Sixth Parliament will continue the historic mission of transforming our society.

I have instructed the acting Secretary to Parliament to expedite the finalisation of the legacy report of the 5th Parliament.

The Deputy Speaker has been tasked by the Speakers’ Forum to lead the process of the Sector Level Legacy Report.

I would like to say a word of thanks to all who enable us to work and serve the people, and I want to start by mentioning the most special man my dear husband ...

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

... and members of the family, I want to mention our daughter Maghotso and her fiancée, my colleagues, the Presiding Officers of both Houses, the President and all Members of the Cabinet; the most hon Members of this House; the Acting Secretary and the administration and most importantly my own staff, led by the executive director of the office.

Your commitment and sacrifices have enriched our legacy.
Hon members, our social compact with our people demands that we remain true to our vision and the ideals entrusted to us by UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 21 generations of our leaders.

We salute Madiba and Ma Sisulu.

Their memory propels us forward, at all times.

I urge this House to support this Budget Vote 2.

Thank you, Deputy Speaker.


The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members and our guests in the gallery, I greet you all.

Today’s Budget Vote takes place four days after His Excellency the President Cyril Ramaphosa launched the “Thuma Mina Campaign” at Ekurhuleni in Thembisa.

This campaign is aimed at improving service delivery and ensures the participation of all citizens.

As ANC members, we are ready to run.


The African National Congress has declared 2018, the year to celebrate the centenary of its two struggle icons, Tata Nelson Mandela, the global icon, the father of the nation and the first democratic President of the Republic of South Africa.

We remember his vision of a nonracial society, in order to build a South Africa that belongs to all who live in it, black and white.

He was the embodiment of our shared hopes, dreams, aspirations and sense of a common nationhood.
In him, we have a repository UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 22 of all the best values and attributes that are necessary for a new, united and democratic society.

We also celebrate Mama Albertina Sisulu, a great daughter of the African soil who dedicated her life to the service of the people of this country.

We recall the great sacrifice she made and the pioneering role she played in the struggle for the emancipation of women.
Allow me to pay respect to the two fallen gallant solders of our revolution who contributed immensely to the liberation struggle of this country.

Mama Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, the mother of our nation, the fearless revolutionary freedom fighter, the epitome of resilience who fought and defeated the brutal apartheid regime.

And also, Tata Dr Zola Skweyiya, a Veteran of the ANC, a constitutionalist and gallant leader of our revolutionary movement.
All these gallant leaders contributed immensely towards South Africa’s liberation struggle.

They have all left an indelible mark in the history of our country.

Our people will remember their invaluable contribution to rebuild our country.

As hon members of this House, we ought to emulate their commitment to UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 23 the struggle of realising the nonracial, nonsexist and prosperous South Africa.
As much as the consideration of this Budget Vote allows us to cast our gaze forward, towards completing this cycle of the Fifth Parliament, it is also an opportunity for us to critically introspect and assess the milestones, weaknesses and systemic challenges that we have been confronted with during the course of this current dispensation.
It is an opportunity for us to critically reflect on the transitional arrangements that must be activated, in order for our work to have a greater impact on the lives of ordinary South Africans.

In terms of section 42(3) of the Constitution, our mandate as Parliament is to ensure government by the people under the Constitution.
This mandate we execute by providing a national forum for public consideration of issues, by passing legislation, by passing the budget and by scrutinising and overseeing executive action.
The constitutional mandate given to Parliament by the electorate is also guided by the following objectives: Increase and strengthen public participation, to strengthen the oversight functions of UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 24 Parliament and improve co-operative governance and expand Parliament’s role in international relations.
As the vanguard of freedom and democracy in South Africa, this national Parliament is hence constituted as a critical mechanism, to advance South Africa’s transformation and development agenda.

Parliament is constituted to ensure that we continue to reverse the effects of poverty and underdevelopment, while creating a conducive environment to enable inclusive growth.
As a critical role-player, the legislature must ensure that a platform for public dialogue on issues of strategic and national importance is adequately functional.

Parliament must also decisively implement its mandate as informed by the prescripts of this Constitution.

It must do so being cognisant of its functional role in the context of a developmental state.
This Parliament must also be alive to the pressing needs currently facing our people, while harnessing the available opportunities to create a better life for all.

This resolve must find expression through the commitment to achieve the hopes and dreams of our people.
The overarching mission of this Parliament must therefore continue to provide the people UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 25 of South Africa with a vibrant people’s assembly that intervenes and transforms society and addresses the development challenges of our people.

To this end, effective oversight over the executive is critical.

Furthermore, the effective scrutiny of government activities to ensure that the needs of South Africans are met is equally critical.
In its 54th elective national conference, the ANC reaffirmed its position in ensuring that the legislative sector remains a critical instrument for advancing people’s power and fast- tracking the transformation of our society.

The conference also resolved that an assessment of the configuration of the legislative sector, across all spheres of government must be undertaken, with a focus on the efficacy and functionality of the sector.
This assessment must establish whether the legislative sector is appropriately configured, adequately resourced, optimally functional, and whether it works co- operatively with other arms of state across all spheres.

This assessment comes at a critical time in the life of our democracy.

Its findings will allow us to reconfigure the sector in a manner that will allow for seamless implementation of the National Development Plan, to ensure delivery within the stipulated timelines.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 26 Chapter 3 of the Constitution envisaged that the co-operative government and intergovernmental relations must enable the three arms of state to collectively work towards an aspiring developmental state.

Section 41(1) instructs the arms of state to exercise their powers and perform their functions in a manner that does not encroach the geographical, functional or institutional integrity of government in another sphere.
It is behind this background that the Speaker of Parliament embarked on a journey that seeks to mend intergovernmental relations that might have broken between the three arms of state in the past years.

We therefore applaud the act of patriotism and dedication shown by the Speaker, in working towards the attainment of our constitutional imperatives.
This Fifth Parliament, through the Speaker’s Forum, as led by the hon Speaker Mbete, moved to establish an Independent High Level Panel led by eminent South African leaders.

The panel was established in order to undertake the task of assessing the content and implementation of legislation that has been passed since 1994.
The panel’s mandate has been to review legislations, assess implementation, identify gaps and propose action steps with the view to identify laws that require strengthening, amending or changing.

The High Level Panel in UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 27 its recommendations, identified gaps in some legislations and laws that need to be strengthened.

Key amongst the challenges that have been identified by the High Level Panel is the adequacy of inclusive public participation.
In trying to address this challenge, portfolio committees have begun putting systems in place to strengthen their public participation and oversight processes.

The High Level Panel has made a number of critical observations, which form an important part of our transitional arrangements into the Sixth Parliament.
Reviewing the Efficacy of Parliaments Strategic Plan, Oversight and Accountability Processes in relation to the National Development Plan as prescribed in the ANC’s strategy and tactics policy paper, I quote: The main goal of state transformation, is building a developmental state that provides effective and basic services with capabilities to take forward a far reaching agenda of national economic development, whilst at the same time placing people and their involvement at the centre of this process.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 28 These policy principles are critical drivers in this people’s Parliament and in the process to advance South Africa’s transformation agenda.

To this end, Parliament’s Strategic Plan is a critical tool for advancing the country’s development objectives in line with the above policy directives.
The interplay between Parliament’s Strategic plan, the National Development Plan, NDP, as the overarching nexus for development and Parliament’s oversight and accountability mechanisms is therefore critical.

In light of these functional policy drivers, the role and capacity of Parliament as part of the triangular nexus of the three arms of state, is an equally critical feature in the resolve to bring about measurable change in the lives of ordinary South Africans.
As part of our transitional arrangements going into the Sixth Parliament, we must continue to find the appropriate mechanisms to ensure that our oversight processes become location specific and outcome based.

Bearing in mind that our Parliament is operating in the context of a developmental state, we must ensure that our strategic planning processes give effect to the most catalysing policy directives.
Our focus must be on conducting oversight over policy priorities UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 29 that have the capacity to accelerate development and bring marginalised communities into the mainstream economy.

It is for this reason that our perspective on the strategic plan of Parliament must be adjusted, to enable us to view it as a tool for effecting transformation.
It must become a tool that prescribes key processes that would make transformational oversight and the implementation of the NDP a seamless process.

Until we are able to measure the length and depth of parliamentary work and quantify its impact in the lives of ordinary South Africans, then we are failing in advancing our constitutional mandate.
The Fifth Parliament has by far seen the greatest shift in terms of reshaping the character and institutional architecture of our country’s parliamentary democracy.

These transitory changes have been viewed by some amongst us as part and parcel of the process of a growing and maturing democracy.

These challenges have also in many ways hampered the effectiveness of Parliament.
We have witnessed a great deal of intensity, particularly during countless occasions where the rules of the House were consistently flouted, challenged and often completely ignored for seeking relevance on the UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 30 country’s public platform.

We often saw deliberate attempts to create anarchy and cause the House to degenerate into complete chaos.

This type of chaos often delayed important processes to deal with agenda of the day.
If the rule of law, as set out in the rules that govern this House continue to be flouted and undermined, it follows that this is the example that we are setting to ordinary South Africans in terms of their relationship and respect of the rule of law.

If the highest legislative body in the country continues to flout and undermine its own rules, then we cannot expect any sector of society to respect the authority of Parliament when it exercises oversight and accountability.
We have found also that in protecting the interests of all South Africans, a number of significant amendments had to be made to the rules, in order to address the type of militancy and aggression that this House has witnessed during the current dispensation.

Persuasive debate in this House cannot be won by means of character assassination, mudslinging or destructive politicking.

Persuasive debate is won through superior arguments.
This principle has sustained the quality of UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 31 responses of the ANC in the Fifth Parliament, making this ANC a unitary party which strives to bring together all disparate views across South Africa’s tapestries and identities.

In going into the Sixth Parliament, let us exercise caution in the manner in which we exercise our freedom of speech during parliamentary debates.
Let us not debate in a manner that erodes the gains that we have made as a country.

The interaction of the Whippery with parties is a critical component in the process of ensuring that we sustain maximum participation and a balanced representation of perspectives in the execution of our collective mandate.

The Whippery has played an important role in assisting us to find party consensus in the management of parliamentary business.
The functioning of the Whippery is therefore at the core of the effective political management of the business of Parliament.

In giving effect to the proponent of participatory democracy in Parliament, our watershed negotiated transition from apartheid to a democratic South Africa is a historical milestone that reminds us all that the ANC has built its leadership foundation on the bedrock of consensus building.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 32 In reflecting on the ideological collisions that have taken place during the Fifth Parliament, we must reflect on the narratives of debate that continue to be harmful to the developmental and unitary agenda of transformation in this House.
Indeed, freedom of speech with its broad privileges and limitations, has allowed many to use this platform to debate from a perspective that seeks to maintain the status quo of inequality amongst the people of South Africa.

The unjust regime of the past created a deeply entrenched system of oppression, which was anchored in white supremacy and racial superiority.
Today unfortunately, even 24 years after the dawn of democracy, this House has had to contend with the remnants of that oppressive regime, which still find expression in this House, which are often at a glance, disguised as compartments of sophisticated opposition politicking.
Unfortunately, for the majority of formerly oppressed masses in our country, the interests that are often defended by some amongst us still seek to protect an ideology of white supremacy and superiority for the benefit of a small, privileged minority in this country.

Parliamentary decorum is not only about adhering to the rules that have been put in place to govern the business of this House.
Parliamentary UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 33 decorum, if properly practiced, is about true respect for others, expressed through genuine efforts to build a cohesive and prosperous South Africa for all.

For those of us who have been at the receiving end of race based politicking, we can identify the subtle tones, insinuations and connotations of oppressive speech.

We can identify the casting of aspersions to our dignity, when it happens.
We can identify condescending and degrading forms of speech that make subtle insinuations of superiority against us.

Although the battle ground is no longer in the trenches, we are now dealing with a continued psychological onslaught and a stealth resistance against the progressive policies of the governing party.

As we make plans to transition into the Sixth Parliament, let us reflect also on the kind of political parties that we are giving the mandate to speak on our behalf.
We must be careful not to give parties that seek to retain the benefits made from the spoils of oppression, the mandate to speak on our behalf.

I want to conclude my speech by paying tribute to the 14 members of this House who have lost their lives during this Fifth Parliament.

These are individuals who have served this UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 34 Parliament and our nation at large, with great commitment and diligence.
They have collectively and individually made significant contributions to the transformation agenda of this country.

Hon House Chairperson, the ANC support Parliament Budget Vote 2.

I thank you.

[Applause.]

Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, let me at the outset say thank all the staff of Parliament for all their hard work and the members of the DA really appreciate everything you do for us.
At our recent meetings of the Joint Standing Committee on the Financial Management of Parliament, several concerns were raised, in connection to the Budget.

Of the 19 performance indicators only 14 or 73% were achieved while 95% of the Budget was spent and if draw down programmes 1-4, you will see that there are 23 divisions in the Budget and fourteen have no performance indicators at all and seven have one performance indicator.
This makes it impossible for the committee to ensure effective oversight over the Budget and whether taxpayers are receiving value for money.

It is unclear to the committee and the DA in UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 35 particular how Parliament is actually measuring and assessing its own outputs in the absence of performance indicators.
In addition, we still do not have a Treasury Advice Office which has resulted in a potential conflict of interest where the Accounting Officer and Chief Financial Officer are giving the executive advice on financial matters when it is them who should be being held accountable.

So they are playing referee and player at the same time.
Another concern is that when one compares quarterly reports, it highlights inconsistencies by Parliament when reporting on its performance as the annual Budget figures keep changing from quarter to quarter, this despite Parliament’s Budget not been adjusted during the appropriation period.
This is of great concern on two fronts, firstly it reflects questionable practises with regards to the movement of money from one line item to another and secondly it prevents the committee from performing effective oversight over Parliament’s finances.

I hope when you do responded at the end of the debate, you can share some light on this particular issue.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 36 Another anomaly is that of the Women’s Conference which took place earlier this year.

The cost keeps increasing despite the 4th quarterly report showing no actual expenditure at all.

So, if one compares the third quarter report to that of the fourth quarter, it shows that overspend of the conference spend from 102%-118% go without additional cent being spent.

Here again, we need answers.


In programme 5, R199 million has been withheld for political party funding due to non-compliance by four parties in this House, yes, one of which happens to be the governing party.

Now, the taxpayers should be informed as to the reasons for non-compliance as it is they who are contributing to the funding of political parties.
If we expect taxpayers to fund such extravagance and the least we can do is to ensure there is a transparency and accountability for the taxpayer’s money.

The process of awarding the Parliamentary Budget needs serious consideration and I am glad the Speaker refers to this, as it cannot be that the Treasury, who is one of the departments that we are supposed to hold to account and exercise oversight, is the department that determines what Budget we actually get.
Again, there is a direct conflict of interest.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 37 There are many examples from across the world where the awarding of the parliamentary Budget is independent from the Treasury and one such example is Ghana, and as you will know the whips went on a visit to Ghana to look at how Parliaments are run and we learnt there that Parliament has its own parliamentary board, independent from the executive which they determine what Budget is needed by Parliament.
The budget then goes to the President not for him to reject or to reduce but simply to sign-off on the Budget.

The Treasury has not said at all in the awarding of the Budget.

This ensures that Parliament is financially resourced and allows it to fulfil its constitutional obligations.

Our current Budget has a shortfall of R476 million, resulting in most divisions, having to cut their Budgets.
If one looks at programme 1 the difference between requested and the actual allocation is R4,3 million, programme 2 the shortfall is R16,7 million, programme 3 is R37 million and programme 4 is an incredible R331 million this includes human resources, the staffing of Parliament.
It is little wonder that many committees find themselves under capacitated with content adviser and researchers being there UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 38 which negatively affects their ability of Parliament to hold the executive to account.

In fact, the sluggish manner in which some portfolio committees have dealt with the State Capture issue has been blamed on the lack of resources of committee itself.
Only programme 5 received its full allocation of R692 million and not only did it receive its full allocation it had an increase of R21 million.

Why is this?

Well programme 5 consists of two divisions: firstly, being Members Facilities which includes our salaries and entitlements which sees a decrease of just over one million, the second division is transfers to political parties which sees an increase of R22 million.

How can this be justified when core services in Parliament are having their Budgets?
A total of R455 million has been budgeted for political party funding this year, this when we have departments across the board and Ministers are here and they will know themselves are having cut their budgets due to the fact of lack of fiscus in the Treasury.

This is resulting in front line services being affected across the board.
How honesty can we sit here and approve this Budget, when, for example, the Basic Education UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 39 Budget is being slashed by a staggering R7 billion.

This is when the Department of Basic Education is already failing our children in preparing them for life after school.

Many leaves school without being able read, comprehend do basic arithmetic.
In fact, the trend in International Maths and Science study found that out of 38 countries, South Africa ranks second last in Maths and last in Science.

With regards to the progress in International Reading Literacy study found that out of 50 countries, 78% of our Grade 4 learners are illiterate.

They cannot read for meaning in any language.

How can we in all honestly approve this Budget when the police service is to be cut by 2 000 police officers due to Budget constraints?
This is despite the wave of crime, engulfing our country at the moment.

Yet, we increase the funding to political parties.

This, hon member is unethical and can’t be justified no matter how much spin one puts on it.

I am glad that you raise the issue that we are the only Parliament in the world that has the ability to amend the Budget.

So, let us use our power and amend this Budget.


UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 40 If there is a legacy that this 5 Parliament should be leaving for the 6 Parliament is that we need to become more a responsive and more caring Parliament that reacts to the issues affecting the voters, instead we bog ourselves down in debates that may make us feel important but have very little or no impact on the day-to-day lives of voters.
For example, last week the latest unemployment figures were released, which showed that unemployment has increased by 264 000 in the last three month.

This swelling unemployment to 9,5 million.

Where was the outrage from this Parliament when this figure was released?

Where was the outrage?

If you divide the 264 000 new unemployed people by 90 days, you can actually work out what the daily unemployment rate is.

So, on the last quarter, everyday 2 933 people joined the unemployment ranks.
Where was the outrage from this Parliament about that?

If that does not make you sit up and take note, I hear some mumbling, maybe this will.

About 65,7% of young South Africans between the ages of 15-24 basically two third of them are now unemployed while 43% of 25-34 year—olds are unemployed.

This UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 41 is a ticking time bomb that can explode at any minute.

But where was the outrage from this Parliament?

No where.
No where.

Another issue highlighted last week by the Hon Mbhele, was that of child murders and rapes, in a reply to a parliamentary question, it was revealed that last year 39 828 rapes took place in this country or reported I should say.

That is nearly 40 000 and of those 19 017 were children.

So, child rapes account for nearly 48% of all rapes in this country, yet where was the outrage from this Parliament about that?
This translates into at least 46 children being raped every day in our country, but where was the outrage from this Parliament about that?

In the same reply, it was revealed that over the past three years, 2 600 children were murdered.

But again, where was the outrage from this Parliament about that issue?

It means that at least two children are murdered every single day in our country, but where was the outrage from this Parliament about that?
And you know what, we also win the dubious prize for the country with the highest child murders in the world, but where was the outrage from this Parliament about that?

I am here and I am making noise about it and that is for sure.

I am here.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 42 Where were you?

I am right here doing my job.


To make matters worse, other parliamentary reply shows that the very police units established of course and scrapped and the new was established the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offence, FCS, unit by this ANC government.

The FCS unit that are established to combat child abuse doesn’t have basic equipments in which to catch perpetrators.

There are currently short of 18 000 rape kits and 43 000 DNA kits, but where was the outrage from this Parliament?
We cannot continue having flowery debates in this chamber while people are being murdered, raped or feel total despair due to a belief that there is no future for them.

We need to be a Parliament that speaks for the people and not to the people.

We need to turn this narrative around and show through our actions, our conviction and our principles that we as parliamentarians do care about those that are currently left behind no matter who they may be.
Instead of having an echo chamber that often leads to a race to the bottom through division instead of unity, let us make this chamber into what it was initially intended, the exchange of ideas no matter how UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 43 robust the debate may be and no matter who the messenger may be.

We have to ensure that we give meaning to the Constitution by reflecting people’s anger, misery and hopelessness and turn it into optimism, confidence and hope.
I thank you.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: House Chairperson, it is common cause that Parliament’s two primary rules are to oversee the actions of the Executive and to legislate.

We should all admit that the 5th Democratic Parliament increased its level of overseeing the executive largely because of the presence of the EFF [Interjections.]

but its legislative capacity is still largely limited.

We are going to speak about that later on.


We do not support the Budget as presented here because we think that the oversight systems of internal parliamentary systems are lax, their very weak and that is the reason Mgidlana could easily still money of Parliament and enrich himself and do all sorts of things, which we cautioned as the EFF upon his arrival.

You must remember that we were the only party that rejected the appointed the appointment of Mgidlana as the Secretary of Parliament.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 44 The issue which we want to highlight is that the arrival of the EFF in this Parliament brought the necessary vibrancy.

Before the arrival of EFF there was no vibrancy, robustness, no superior logic, there was no dynamism that got to define any Parliament.

It is only since the arrival of the EFF that such was realised.

Let me just take you through what we have been doing since 2014 when we got here.
In 2014 we tabled the motion on the remuneration and conditions of mineworkers, to say that let us set up an ad hoc committee to look into that.

The ANC rejected that motion.

In 2015 we tabled a motion to say that let us provide a budget for fee-free education for all students in South Africa.

The ANC parliamentary majority rejected that motion.

In 2016 we put a motion to say let us repeal all the apartheid legislations that still exist here in South Africa.
We have got 2371 apartheid legislations that are part of our system now - the ANC rejected such a motion.

Why so, it is because of what we said earlier today that the ANC is defined by collective mediocrity, collective incapacity and collective negligence and cowardice.

It is what we have been dealing with.


UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 45 We also requested this Parliament to invite the Public Protector to come and address Advocate Thuli Madonsela, the ANC rejected that motion.

In 2017 we put a motion on expropriation of land without compensation, the ANC rejected that motion.

In 2017 again, we put a motion on nationalisation of banks and creation of a state bank, the ANC rejected that motion.
At least in 2017, one thing which was beginning to be a shift, was that we put a motion to say let us have secret ballot against former President, the criminal Jacob Zuma, and for the first time as the EFF we were able to persuade members of the ANC to vote against their own sitting President.

So, we are proud as the EFF that in this 5th Democratic Parliament we were able to crack the ruling party separately in terms of what happened in a secret ballot which we insisted should happen.
On 27 February 2018 we introduced a motion on expropriation of land without compensation, it was voted for by 74% of Members of Parliament that were present, meaning that public representatives, who represent 74% of voters in South Africa, voted for a motion for expropriation of land without compensation.

What does that motion say?

It recognises that section 25 of the Constitution is an impediment to proper land UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 46 redistribution and redress.
It is what the motion that we adopted here says.

It also says that let us instruct the Constitutional Review Committee to go and review and amend section 25 of the Constitution so as to permit for expropriation of land without compensation.

It even say that we must review other legislative instruments and the Constitution itself to deal with the issue of land tenure and it says that we must pay specific attention to the fact that the state must be custodian of all South Africa’s land.
You must go and read that resolution that was taken by this Parliament.

I think that as the 5th Democratic Parliament we must stay true to our resolution and make sure that it is realised.

What does this mean?

It means that ultimately the state must be custodian of all South Africa’s land.

It is the case in Ethiopia.


The Ethiopians state and government that represents the people is in ownership and control of all land and those who want to invest and do any other usage with land, have a leasehold instead freehold.

It is a case in Mozambique.

In Mozambique there is no private ownership of land.

Seventy percent of the land in China is owned by the state, 75% of land of land in Singapore is owned by the state.
These are UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 47 some of the world’s attractors of investments.

The land there is owned and controlled by the state.

Here in South Africa, a portion of the land that is owned by the state is being currently utilised on a lease basis.

The Department of Fisheries and Forestry will illustrate to you that they lease the land for plantations and for forestry purposes and take it back whenever is necessary.
It is the model we say must be looked into as part of the durable reform programme that we are talking about.

Also the Department of Public Works is leasing land to different businesses in different parts of South Africa.

The dry port between Mozambique and Komatipoort is leased to a company that is doing business there and the state can always claim that it is strategic need that they have to do that.
There are farms that are being owned by the state to be leased to people because the colonial government in South Africa from 1814 has changed a discourse and made it to be freehold instead of leasehold.

By the way, even the colonial settlers had implemented leasehold system from 1652 until 1814 here in South Africa.
It is the original component of communal land ownership where there is no one who claims to own the land but UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 48 you are given land use rights on the basis that you use it or lose it.

It is the resolution that we took as Parliament and I think that we are going to make sure that it is fully implemented.
The greatest this that this 5th Democratic Parliament should do, when we get a motion as the EFF, we must adopt a motion to rename Cape Town International Airport to Winnie Nomzamo Madikizela-Mandela Airport.

[Applause.]

It will be the greatest honour that we can give to our colleague.

Whoever can say what – Mama Nomzamo Madikizela-Mandela was our colleague here in the 5th Democratic Parliament.

Let us give here that honour to rename the airport about her.
I spoke about the legislative limitations of this Parliament.

The EFF has since built internal capacity to make laws because we have realised we cannot rely on Parliament.

It is the reason we have tabled the Banks Amendment Bill.

It is before the Standing Committee on Finance.

We have table the National Health Amendment Bill, which is going to make sure that all clinics open for 24 hours.
We have put the motion on the nationalisation of the Reserve Bank because it is what our founding manifesto says we must do.

We are going to put UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 49 legislation on the establishment of the Sovereign World Fund because we know that despite having a resolution on the same question, the ruling party has got no interest, no capacity and willingness to could legislate on establishment of a Sovereign World Fund.
We are going to have legislation on tax avoidance, but that must be preceded by a proper Commission of Enquiry into practices of tax avoidance, base erosion, profit shifting and elicit financial flows in general so that when we put legislation, it becomes one of the most impactful legislations that will abolish such kind of happenings and save a lot of money for the people of South Africa.

We are going to put legislation as well on making sure that all spheres of government employ their workers directly.
There is no need for security companies and cleaning companies who pay workers just a tenth of what the municipalities, provincial governments, state-owned companies and national departments give to those companies.

We are going to put legislation in all of those issues because we have realised that the movement, which is going out of power now, doesn’t have the interest.

It is instead defined by collective incapacity, mediocrity and cowardice.

[Time Expired.]

Thank you very much.

[Applause.]


UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 50 Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, due to the lack of time I will confine myself to Budget Vote 2 – Parliament, and some serious issues which I trust hon Speaker and the executive team will attend to.

I am a member on the Joint Standing Committee on the Finance of Parliament.
There are issues of inconsistencies in the way Parliament and Treasury approach the budget with regards to reporting, yet we have not been able to get both parties around the table.

The executive authorities need to deal with this challenge.

We cannot fulfil our accountability mandate unless reporting is consistent with the required legislation.

Parliament must develop regulations in this regard on an urgent basis.

Hon Waters spoke about this.


The executive authority need to expeditiously appoint a Treasury adviser within their offices, currently they are obtaining advice from the accounting officer and chief finance officer, CFO, of Parliament, who according to the Act should be accountable to the executive authority, in essence, you are being advised by individuals whom you should be holding accountable.
Chairperson, with regard to the constitutional review committee, as a Whip who co-ordinates the activities of what is called 10 smaller parties, I have written to the Chairpersons of the Joint UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 51 Rule’s Committee with regard to membership on the constitutional review committee.

Chairperson, we have heard that every member of every party should have representation on that committee.
When they go out on site visits, it is important that every party has a representative.

I await some correspondence in this regard from the hon Speaker to that request.

Hon Hlengwa will not forgive me hon Speaker if I do not raise the issue of the parliamentary youth forum.

He has raised this over and over again.

We have a women’s forum but to date in the Fifth Parliament we do not have a parliamentary youth forum and I hope we can get some answers in that regard.
Hon Chairperson, a significant piece of legislation passed by this Parliament this year was the Political Party Funding Bill which we - as smaller parties - felt will bring equity in the way these funds are distributed to political parties.

We just hope that you, hon Speaker, can impress upon your colleague in the NCOP that this Bill needs to be expedited.

In this Fifth Parliament there can be a new allocation of the same funds that we have to provide some kind of equity.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 52 Chairperson, turning to some operational issues, I think wellness in general requires a lot of attention by this Parliament.

We are all aware hon members that we have been through a gruelling budget vote programme in the last few weeks.
We sit here for hours and sometimes go without eating, surely we need to have places like well equipped gym which we currently do not have here in Parliament, particularly a men’s gym and the squash court is in a terrible condition.

Our gyms in the village are just structures with no equipments in them.

I think we must concentrate much in that area.

Hon Chairperson, the other issue that I wish to raise – which I raised before – is a question of administrative support to smaller parties.
We as smaller party members debate on every single vote.

In fact, the IFP has come here on 40 votes and so of some of the other parties and we don’t have the resources to employ adequate researchers.

I think something needs to be done in that regard because if we want to be a parliamentary multiparty democracy then we would make sure as Parliament that we provide adequate tools particularly to the smaller parties.

This places us at a distinct disadvantage when we have to participate in all these votes.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 53 As far as the parliamentary workforce is concerned, things have been going pretty well but there are some areas which require attention.

Finally, there needs to be better co- ordination between the National Assembly and the NCOP with regard to programming Joint Standing Committee meetings.

A number of these meetings are stretched out and we don’t meet because we cannot co-ordinate our programmes.
Notwithstanding the above concerns, the IFP supports this budget vote.

I thank you.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, the NFP supports the budget vote tabled here today.

Hon Chairperson, I have previously raised the question on the issue of constituency offices, office staff, fixtures fitting and etc whether they do exist but nothing has been done, not monitored and not evaluated.
Why is Parliament not publishing a list of all the constituency offices throughout the country as they do not belong to political parties but is an initiative of Parliament as a go between the people and the public representatives?

One example is a Democratic Alliance who does not have a single constituency office but collecting tens of millions of rands, yet nothing is being done about that.

That is actually UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 54 theft of taxpayer’s money.
Minister, please take note, there is no accountability by members of this House yet they want to be called honourable, when some members sign in and leave immediately without staying for the duration of the sitting, including members travelling to Cape Town just to claim travel allowances despite members not even attending their committee meetings.

Hon Chairperson, Chief Whips went on an international education tour costing something of about R4 million.

What has changed, absolutely nothing.


I heard hon Mike Waters talking about Ghana as a brilliant example but the behaviour of the Chief Whips have not changed, in fact it is worse.

What is the purpose of sending them there?

It is a waste of taxpayer’s money and it is time to put a moratorium on all international travels because it is serving no purpose.
Hon Chairperson, Southern African Development Community’s Parliamentary Forum, SADC-PF, Pan African Parliament, PAP, Inter-Parliamentary Union, IPU, and Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, CPA, are also where taxpayer’s monies are being wasted.

I think we need to give this a rethought whether we should be participating in these structures.
The Country is UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 55 burning with demonstrations, riots as a result of poor service delivery but members of this House, who talk about fraud, corruption, maladministration and wasteful expenditure at the expense of the poorest of the poor are on this gravy train are flying around the world.

In fact, they have not even visited their neighbourhood but they are flying to every country around the world.

It is time that we put a stop to it.


Hon Chairperson, let me give you another example, a very important legislation on minimum wage which we were supposed to introduce, both the DA and the EFF actually refused to come and participate during the constituency period.

Why did they do that yet they come here and say that minimum wage is very important?
I can understand that the DA wanted nothing to do with it because they wanted to embarrass the President of the country who insisted that the minimum wage must be introduced as a matter of urgency.

Hon Chairperson, they live in rent free houses, with free electricity, free garden service, top class security ...

[Interjections.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 56 Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Hon Chairperson, hon Shaik Emam is misleading the House.
He is singing again for his supper for tonight.

Can he withdraw the name of the EFF because we were in those committees?

Can he stop misleading the House?

Stop singing for your supper!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Continue, hon member that is not a point of order.

Continue.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Chairperson, they live in rent free furnished houses, with free electricity, free garden service, top class security, free air travel, free breakfast and sometimes lunch, free travel!
yet they are enjoying the benefits but doing nothing for the community.

The NFP supports the budget votes.

Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Can we now recognise the hon Deputy Speaker.

[Interjections.]

Hon Deputy Speaker, please, take your seat.

Can I be guided as to what is taking place before we continue?

Hon members, order!

Hon members, thank you very much, can you please take your seats.

Mam’uSonty!

Mam’uSonty!

Order!

hon members!

Order!

order, hon members!


UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 57 Mr H P CHAUKE: Point of order, Chair!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order!

Order, hon members!

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chair!

Chair!

Chairperson!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I will listen to you let me just first get this settled.

Wait!

Wait, hon Chauke!

Hon Chauke, wait.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, are you okay?
Thank you.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson!

Sorry!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Chauke ...

[Interjections.]

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson!

Sorry!

members!

Sorry.

Chairperson, I want to raise ...

[Interjections.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 58 Ms S M KHAWULA: Point of order, Chair.

IsiZulu: USIHLALO WENDLU (Nkk M G Boroto): Ngizokubiza manje Mama.

Mangiqede ngo Bab’Chauke.


Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson, the issue that is now getting out of hand and serious is that the threat to Emam Shaik must come to an end.

It cannot be allowed that these members of the DA all the time they point at hon Shaik.

Like now, they wanted to assault him, it cannot be accepted!

It cannot be accepted and it must come to an end!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Chauke, thank you very much.

Mr H P CHAUKE: You can’t keep on harassing this member here.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Chauke!

Okay, Mam’uKhawula, I will come to you.

Let me respond to hon Chauke first ... IsiZulu: UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 59 ... ngizokubiza manje Mama.

Mangiqede ngoBab’uChauke.

English: Hon Chauke, I think that matter you know where it can be placed directly so that it is being dealt with thoroughly.

Thank you.

IsiZulu: Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, uyazi nginenkinga.

Uthe uma eqhamuka laphaya washo ukungikhomba ngesibhamu.
[Ubuwelewele.][Uhleko.]

Ngathi ngiyeza lapho, wangigeqa ngonyawo ngawa.

[Ubuwelewele.]

Manje ngifuna ukwazi ukuthi kusemthethweni yini na ngoba kungenzeka mhlawumbe uthunywe uKhongolose.

[Ubuwelewele.]

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nkk M G Boroto): Kulungile, hlala phansi Mama.

[Ubuwelewele.]

Hlala phansi!

Hlala phansi Mam’uKhawula!

Siyabonga.

Ngikuzwile ngizokuphendula.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Point of order, Chair!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Shaik Emam, can I respond to Mam’uKhawula first?
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 60 Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you.

IsiZulu: USIHLALO WENDLU (Nkk M G Boroto): Mam’uKhawula akekho umuntu ongena nesibhamu kule Ndlu.

Uma ngabe kwenzeke iphutha ngicela sikhulume ngemuva kwalokhu.

Siyilungise le ndaba ingaphinde yenzeke.

Ngiyaxolisa ngaloko.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Chair, just to set the record straight.

Mama Khawula wanted to hug me so much that she tripped long before she reached me.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, no!

Okay.

Hon Shaik Emam, thank you for the love but we will address that outside this House.

Hon Deputy Speaker, it is now your time.

Order, hon members!

Order!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much.

I guess members needed a short-break after an intense presentation.

I’m very glad to participate in this debate - this discussion.

Thanks to you Madam Speaker and Madam Chairperson in her absence.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 61 As the leadership of Parliament we appreciate the leadership you have given us your deputies.

I also want to thank the Chairperson here for allowing us to talk about this allocation that enable us to register progress, having assessed the challenges that faces us and therefore mapping the way forward in the next period.

Some of these elements have already been spoken to.
The country has the responsibility to lift the most vulnerable, the poor from the impact of poverty, inequality and unemployment.

Continuing gender, race, class and discrimination are a blot on the progress we have otherwise made The resources that we have been allocated as Parliament constitute and must motivate us to ensure that all of it, as well as that which has been allocated to other government departments generally, is used for what it is meant for.
In the event this is not so, swift, decisive action must be taken to restore order.

It is these actions, called for by the people and the public in general and coming out of the legislative sector and responded to urgently by the executive UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 62 that will restore public confidence in the institutions that are so critical.
Madam speaker, yourself and madam chairperson of the NCOP have played an important role in the past year in positioning Parliament correctly as a third arm of the state as you said.

Therefore, deserving of appropriate allocation to carry out its mandate and to improve our collective understanding of our roles inside the three arms of the state, and of course improving the relationship between the three spheres of government.
Increasingly, you have led Parliament’s diplomatic engagements here at home and internationally.

I disagree with hon Shaik Emam, in fact, perhaps it is appropriate that we say that we have to act, we have to know and act in our neighbourhood, inside the country but in our neighbourhood here: Zimbabwe, Botswana, Mozambique, Lesotho, and so on, without interacting in those countries.
As parliaments of those countries and in the parliaments of the world we cannot appropriately ensure the interests of our own people.

In fact, members and people from those countries UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 63 regularly interact with us here in order not only to share their useful experiences but we also go there for the same reason.
The progress we made is dependent not only in our own initiatives and strengths but also on the collective strengths of other parliaments to carry out the objectives that we exist as the public representative forum here.
We have to express also, Madam Speaker – in fact let me put this that Parliament of South Africa plays and continues to play a very influential role in this international bodies that you have mentioned Madam Speaker, and some of them hon Shaik- Emam has mentioned; to which we belong and pay dues.
Not only for purposes of co-operation on major issues, including solidarity; the effective campaign for the release of the Cuban Five was in no small measure and authorities there acknowledge this; of the public international support for that move, to ensure that people who are free deserve their dignity out of the jails that were in arbitrarily was an important one.

It needs us every step of the way.

They ensured our own liberation.


UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 64 We have to express gratitude also for the support we continue to have from some of these countries as well.

Some of them for an example through the EU we are running our programme of capacity-building, paying for many of you members here to study – to improve your capacity to engage on matters that confront you in the work that you are doing here.
But also very importantly, in committees, the capacity those committees have - that support is important.

It comes from citizens of those countries – who do it and agree that their government must do it because of this solidarity relationship we have had in the past.

They understand better, in my opinion and that’s why they continue to support us in this programmes.
Our progress is dependent on firstly accepting our sovereignty but recognising the limitations of that we do have that require the support of others.

The work of Parliament is strongly supported by institutions that support democracy, as Madam Speaker spoke.

These do so to catch things that fall between the cracks, so to speak.
The designers of the institutional landscape had in mind exactly UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 65 that kind of function; and where they themselves do not operate to their best ability, they are a subject to scrutiny as this Parliament is as any other.

This past year has been an intense one by the office of the Speaker to interact with those bodies.

We also have on our website – I hope members do visit it.

We promise to improve it.


That this report can be found there to indicate the contents and substance of these interactions critically, internally because that’s where we thought we should begin.

We are finalising this report.

It will soon be coming to Parliament for consideration, and of course, referral to the next Parliament.

Communicating the work of Parliament is an important one, including on these issues.
We regard this communication as crucial, first by members themselves through our interaction with the public; but first in our own political parties, many of our members are not public representatives and though so who like us are public representatives have an appropriate and equal responsibility to communicate effectively to our political parties.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 66 Political parties are pace setters.
When they run their work properly the society is happy and we are able to make the necessary impact to improve the conditions that people would like to see in their own lives.

Firstly, let us say that this communication is also dependent on the capacity that as Parliament we do have.
Institutionally we need to support members in the work they do in their Parliamentary Counsel Office, PCOs; and we are putting in place a range of systems in place, which are already harnessing the new technologies to enable members to reach their constituencies but also to reach others outside with the message of the work we do in Parliament.

We think we can do better.

There are possibilities that exist out there that will make it very possible.
For an example, we are currently limited in the Television that reaches the majority of people because this is a space that is limited to certain class of people.

We are in the process of negotiating a broader far more extensive access by the poorest of the poor to television coverage of the work of Parliament and soon we will be able to UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 67 announce concrete progress even before we go to recess mostly or just after that.
I would like to point out that this support that we give has to be through as I said about the institutional mechanism that we have here; and in the diversity of the media that we should embrace in all official languages, progress is being made here as well to increase the speed with which we produce material here – Hansard, so that members can have it for themselves.

But also often, there are requests for recordings of what was said in Parliament.

We must be able to be responsive to those.


They are crucial mechanism for oiling our system of responsiveness.

We are working hard to produce very soon – in collaboration with other parliaments in the world, material and access to members.

In fact, just to say that because of our participation in these other bodies that unites parliaments, we have also produced master class on gender equality.
This is accessible to all Members of Parliament in which we talk about the value of gender equality, of ensuring that UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 68 paying men and women equally for the work they do in society, is a big attack on levels of poverty and inequality in society.

It will serve a very useful purpose in increasing the purchasing power of families and thus the ability to live better than they are because of this inequality in pay.
Parliament passed a resolution here and a Report of the Evaluation of the Gender Commission and the committee in Parliament that deals with women issues.

That report, especially in sports, should be agreed to and it was agreed to unanimously here.

It is one part of an important piece of work that has been done about which we have not cloud loud enough because we have to oversee its implementation.
Ultimately, the goal here is to dramatically improve internal communication so that members are in turn can communicate better and respond better to the public in general and in their constituencies in particular.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 69 We are glad, Madam Chair, that on the 31 May, the leadership of Parliament has agreed that we should launch a mini seminar series on the so called Fourth Industrial Revolution.
This matter requires urgent attention not only to play to the hype of robotics artificial intelligence but to pay particular attention to the impact in society this development is likely to have.

The overall purpose also being what it is in essence, how should we handle it to ensure its benefits accrue to the majority of South Africans?

How we deal with these threats that some of these new technologies may pose for all of us.

For example, some jobs have disappeared.


Decisions have been made in these international co-operations that operate globally to automate consequently almost immediately those jobs in those headquarters but also in other countries where the allocated jobs have disappeared.

It is not speculating about it.

Warehouses are springing up in the middle of Gauteng as e-commerce hit the ground.

So some jobs are being lost.


Are those that are going to be created UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 70 going to be enough to stand the tide of the impact of the new technologies?

What we would like to inquire through this – some Ministers have already indicated here during the state of the nation in Parliament of their willingness and readiness to come and talk to us.
So we hope members will come in there so that Parliament exercises oversight on this important critical area.

We are interested for an example, to assessing the responsiveness of our universities, businesses on building capacity and training and retraining in cases of restructuring that is likely to happen.

But also, the impact on jobs, which is one of the priorities we have: the impact on men and women, on youth, on children and crucially employment and careers in general.

We have a responsibility.


All of the things that we do as we said earlier on, is to ensure nothing happens, however fancy it sounds to exacerbate the current levels of poverty, the current levels of inequality and so on.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 71 So the budget that is allocated to us is an instrument through which we interact with the executive to ensure that every cent is used for purposes for which it is meant for.
It is the oversight and accountability responsibility that we have, that should this not happen, urgent, decisive action must be taken to restore order, to ensure that the people’s wishes of lifting them from poverty and inequality happen urgently.

As your forum that represents the public out there this is one of the most important parts of what we can do to advance the mandate we were given all of us as Members of this Parliament.

I do wish to say one or two things.


One of the revolutionaries from around here once said: “Tell no lies, mask no difficulties, and claim no easy victories.” This, is an important observation in that, in assessing where we come from, how we have done it, and why we were able to do it so effectively, and what the challenges are?

It is important to be honest, to be frank and to present things as challenges we must work on so that we don’t trap ourselves in victories ...

[Interjections.]

[Inaudible.]


... by purities.

Thank you very much hon Chair.

[Applause.]

[Time expired.]
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 72 Mr N L S KWANKWA [15:45:51]: House Chair, a simple question: if you talk about this budget shortfall of approximately R470 million and you marry it with the point that was made earlier to say, for instance, that there are inconsistencies in the reporting mechanisms that Parliament uses and what the National Treasury expects from Parliament, then how sure are we if this amount is indeed correct, or is a true reflection of what Parliament is going to need to be able to be effective in its oversight mechanism and in its oversight role?
I want to make this point, because I think it is important that we understand ... we have seen over the years ... we have been reiterating this point: that these budgetary constraints have a negative impact on the oversight function – the oversight role - of Parliament.

You have portfolio committees that are not well-capacitated to be able to deal with oversight work.
In fact, in many instances in portfolio committees when you compare departments and the capacity you have in committees, it’s almost like a David and Goliath-kind of system where portfolio committees or executives – members of the executive and their departments – actually get away with murder in many instances.

Right?

Because they are able to UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 73 mask failures in a way that is not easy to detect for committees because of the lack of capacity.
You have portfolio committees here in this Parliament that give you material an hour before a meeting, and then you are expected to be effective in your engagements with departments.

It can’t be.

Sometimes you are sent e-mails at 12 at night.

Right?

You don’t see them until you get to the committee meeting and you are expected to be effective.

And then we are surprised or shocked when we have to come around and say, “No, we must do a commission of inquiry ... we must enquire into ... ”.
If we had properly capacitated portfolio committees, there wouldn’t be a need for us to have all these million-and- one enquiries that we are doing right now.

Right?

We must address the root cause of the problem, which is a capacity problem rather than to say that we are going to come up with short-term solutions of ad hoc committees to enquire into the same work that should have been done by committees.
Madam Speaker, I cannot understand, for example - I decided to speak to speak in English to you today – that there is not a single parliamentary paper that is in the vernacular.

I don’t UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 74 know whether I should call Afrikaans vernacular.

There is not one, but we have language practitioners here.

IsiXhosa: Akukho phepha lemibuzo elibhalwe ngesiXhosa, ngesiSuthu okanye isiTswana... English: ... but we have people that are working here, right?
The other issue is ... Deputy Speaker, you keep on talking about this channel for aid and accessibility of Parliament.

It doesn’t belong on a DStv channel if you want to be accessible to our people.

Why ...

[Inaudible.]

... free-to-air so that our people can watch us when we talk about Mqanduli, Nyamazana and all of these places.

[Applause.]

IsiXhosa: Akufunekanga ukuba sihlawule imali kwiDSTV ukuze uMultichoice abenemali eninzi ukuze bakwazi usibona xa sithetha ngeengxaki zabo.
Masingatyebisi amasela apha kuba bangamasela bona kuqala kula macendelo abucala (private sector) qha bayathanda ukuzenza ngcono ngathi.

La masela.

[Kwaqhwatywa.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 75 English: We support this budget, Ma’am.
Mrs J D KILIAN: House Chairperson, members, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, presiding officers present, colleagues, parliamentary staff and fellow South Africans, at the outset I want to thank parliamentary staff – those who are committed to this institution and who very often work very hard for the upholding of this institution.
This is indeed an opportune time to critically assess the impact of the legislative arm of government during the period of the Fifth Parliament and to determine whether our budget allocation is adequate to support our constitutional mandate throughout the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period.

As the ANC we have advocated for a true, people’s activist parliament, where public representatives are rooted in communities and in touch with their needs.
The hon Carrim has, on occasion, delivered a speech to the University of the Western Cape.
He said, and I quote: “One of the defining features of an activist parliament is that it should seek to UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 76 involve all citizens in issues of governance for better service delivery and development.” It is in this context that the ANC pays tribute to all institutions of civil society and universities, including the media, for their active role in recent years to remind us of our constitutional obligations and to ensure that we exercise the considerable power of this institution, that is: to hold the executive accountable.
Chapter-9 institutions and the judiciary played a crucial role in compelling Parliament to improve its oversight mechanisms and to honour our constitutional obligations.

Through social media and increased access to ICT, the people who elect us will continue to remind us of our role and our duties to root out blatant corruption, to improve service delivery and to stop the abuse of power by elected representatives.
The National Assembly, in particular the portfolio committees, will have to work very hard to regain and to retain the trust of the people of South Africa.

The Constitution, in section 55, summarises the NA’s primary mandate – other members have already referred to that – namely, to pass and initiate legislation and to provide for mechanisms to ensure UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 77 accountability of the executive.
The National Assembly is therefore constitutionally charged with exercising oversight to ensure accountability, responsiveness and openness in government.

Before we take our seats in this House we also take an oath of office.

We commit that we will obey, respect and uphold the Constitution and all other laws of the Republic, and that we will perform our duties to the best of our abilities.
Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng, at his most recent swearing-in ceremony of new Cabinet members, also issued a stern warning.

Although he referred to the oath of office of Cabinet members, the same principle applies to Members of Parliament, MPs.

Judge Mogoeng Mogoeng said, and I quote: You cannot read out this oath as if it is inconsequential.

This oath, or affirmation, is going to judge you.

It would not have found its way into our most important document, the Constitution.

So, may we all be warned?


May it judge, most brutally, any one of us who are here for a show?

We therefore pledge obedience to the Constitution and, by extension, to the National Assembly Rules which derive their UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 78 authority from section 57 of the Constitution.

I now see our hon Chief Whip.

I just want to correct the hon Waters before I proceed.

The ANC has accounted for all monies received from Parliament ... the hon Waters is incorrect.
If it had done it, the next instalments would not have been paid out.

[Applause.]

So, just to correct the facts before the National Assembly.

[Interjections.]

The Revised National Assembly Rules, Version 9, was adopted after thorough deliberation through multiparty discussions in the Fifth Parliament.

It is a good document.

The Rules make provision for several oversight mechanisms and for the establishment of portfolio, standing and ad hoc committees.
We all know that committees are regarded as the engine room of Parliament.

During the Fifth Parliament, the committee system has really come of age.

During, especially, the past 18 months or more, the NA committees have used their constitutional powers to call officials and Ministers to account.

The hon Frolick encouraged specific committees to investigate the allegations of state capture within the parameters of the Assembly Rules and also provided additional financial support for those investigations.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 79 What we now need is better co-ordination between portfolio committees and a follow-through between Scopa findings – or the Standing Committee on Public Accounts’ findings - and portfolio committees.
Officials and politicians who are fingered in allegations of corruption must be charged either through disciplinaries or through the criminal justice system, if they run away from offices where they are serving before they can be called to a disciplinary.

The days when people could run away without consequences are over.

You cannot steal public money without facing consequences.
The public wants to see that Parliament exercises its authority and pushes ahead with the necessary oversight over the executive.

The committees in an activist parliament should be further strengthened and better funded.

The Speaker has already referred to that.

We need more research capacity and we need legal services.

We need the ability and means to conduct unannounced visits to service-delivery points.
We cannot simply announce that we are coming and the red carpet is rolled out; we should actually have our subcommittees going undercover and to see what the public is enduring.

And I would like to mention here – and the hon Minister of Home Affairs: I don’t see him around – what I witnessed on Friday last week.
I UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 80 was standing in a queue and after all of us moved through the one queue, the official behind the counter said, “You’re in the wrong queue.” But there was no signage that it was the wrong queue, and we had to just go and queue again in the queue next to us.

It’s just unacceptable.

The people were really complaining terribly.


That is the fact that we have to face as members of the Assembly: that those issues are down there – not where the Ministers can see, but where the officials are not fulfilling their responsibilities.

Similarly, people are being sent from pillar to post through the embassies when they need to renew their passports.

One official says one thing; another official says something else.
Sometimes it takes unnecessary interventions by Ministers to just do the simple, ordinary thing: that is to provide services to the people.

Queues at hospitals ... the distribution of medication ... We should go and see for ourselves and we should alert the executive.

I also want to refer to the Rules which have been adopted and which contain excellent provisions.
The only outstanding issue UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 81 is the motion for the removal of the President in terms of section 89 of the Constitution, which will be concluded shortly.

But whilst all of us, I presume, prefer a lively Assembly sitting to a boring, mundane, procedurally driven and technical session, we have to reflect on some of the unacceptable practices which became a feature of the Fifth Parliament.
It is a relief that the serious disruptions of the House sittings of the past two to three years are no longer, currently, a regular feature.

We are also grateful that the Western Cape High Court finally ruled in favour of the process that the ad hoc committee on powers and privileges followed to discipline ill-disciplined EFF members.

The court ruled in favour of Parliament, and that is a very profound ruling.
However, there are some less spectacular but still unacceptable practices that have become the new norm in Parliament.

These practices could be based on an innocent misunderstanding ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Kilian, will you take your seat please.

Why are you rising, hon member?

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 82 Ms E N NTLANGWINI: I just want to check, hon Chairperson.

Does the hon Kilian know that the reshuffle is done ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Are you asking a question?

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: [Inaudible.]

... and saying EFF is ill disciplined.

She must just remember that we fought Zuma ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, that is not a point of order.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: [Inaudible.]

... to get him off, we got him off.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Will you please take your seat.

That is not a point of order.

Continue, hon member.


Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, this is the abuse of parliamentary Rules that I want to come to.

The problem we must determine is: Are these really innocent misunderstandings, or are they a deliberate political strategy UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 83 to disrupt the debates in this Assembly?

I would like to argue that this is a political strategy and an abuse of the Rules.
Rule 31, for instance, rising on a question of privilege: Members who are abusing that Rule don’t understand that that Rule refers to your privileges as a Member of Parliament as contained in the Powers, Privileges, and Immunities of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act and in the Constitution.

You can’t rise here on a point of privilege because you want to address the House; it has nothing to do with that.

Rule 66 is also being abused: member not to be interrupted.

We’ve just seen that now.


Members are rising on so-called points of order.

[Interjections.]

They don’t understand that a point of order is confined only to a matter of parliamentary procedure and practice.

That is what a point of order is.

Misunderstandings.

Questions.

Are we allowing Parliament and the executive to be used for research institutions?

For instance, certain generic questions that are completely irrelevant are being posed and thrown at all the departments.
That is abuse of the parliamentary Rule on questions.

Also, a UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 84 question on the status and maintenance of the Irene post office, which is a private property, was posed to the Minister of Public Works.

Why?

Did the member not first do some footwork in the municipality to determine that?
I would like to conclude by saying that the role of the Whippery and the misunderstanding of the Leader of the Opposition’s role are also, clearly, major problems.

The Leader of the Opposition is the leader in this House.

That doesn’t give him a specific standing in society in that he can now call on the Hawks to come and present certain reports to the Assembly, etc.

[Interjections.]

He should understand the limitations of his role.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Kilian, will you just take your seat.

Why are you rising, hon member?

Mr S P MHLONGO: I wonder if the hon member can actually explain to us: where was she before she became ANC?

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, hon member.

Hon member, that is not a point of order that you are rising on.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 85 What you must do is ask the member if she is prepared to take a question and then, thereafter, if the member agrees, you can ask the question.

You didn’t follow that procedure.

You must now conclude, hon member.

Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, thank you.

I was robbed of a few minutes, but be that as it may.

The training of Members of Parliament really needs to be taken forward in the new Parliament.
I also want to say, in conclusion, that we will have to be capacitated as Parliament to have a tracking mechanism for consequence management.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time has now expired.

Mrs J D KILIAN: Thank you.

[Applause.]

BUSINESS SUSPENDED AT 16:05 AND RESUMED AT 16:21.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): House Chairperson, Deputy Speaker, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, hon members, parliamentary staff in attendance, ladies and gentlemen.
In UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 86 opening my talk, I would like to quote the words of President Mandela in a speech he made in this House on 26 March 1999.

It is in the legislatures that instruments have been fashioned to create a better life for all.

It is here that oversight of government has been exercised.

It is here that our society in all its formations has had an opportunity to influence policy and its implementation.
In brief, we have laid the foundation for a better life.

Things that were unimaginable a few years ago have become everyday reality.

And of this we must be proud.

House Chairperson, hon members, as we come to the end of term of this 5th Parliament, I reflected on the meaning of the words of Tata Rolihlahla Mandela on his last address in this Parliament as the Head of State.

He reflected on the work of public representatives then.

But his reflections are relevant to us as legislatures today.
As we celebrate his life during this year of his centenary, we too, in this 5th Parliament, we can say we have tried to fashion instruments to create a better life for all.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 87 Through the legislation we have passed.

Through Motions and Questions to the executive, we have brought the concerns of the electorate to this important Assembly.

It is here where oversight of the executive has occurred.
Through our constituency budget and members support, we have ensured that our society in all its formation influence policy and its implementation.

House Chairperson, hon members, my Constituency in Sekhukhune District has felt the impact of this National Assembly.

They have been able to bring to our attention their concerns regarding governance of natural resources in particular mining and water.
It is in this region where a potential for economic growth can be realised in particular with mining and agriculture being the drivers of the economy.

However, House Chairperson and members, it is in this very region where we have had challenges of illegal mining.

It is in this region where mine workers lost their lives on their way to work, when their bus was bombed.
In responding to these challenges, we have had a positive response from the Ministry of Mineral Resources and the local councillors who have been walking this journey with us since UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 88 2017.

We have had numerous consultations with communities and illegal miners with a view of assisting them to mine legally.

We have engaged mining companies to release some of their assets for use by small scale miners.
This remains work in progress, but we are positive that we will resolve it.

This issue of mining in our country and in our continent, though known as the grandfather industry continues to be an important sector of our economy.

Its governance therefore, remains critical.

The role of our portfolio committee led by Zet Luzipo must be commended for the work it has done and continues to do in oversight.
Hon members, the story of Sekhukhune is not unique, it tells a history of inequality that we have to confront if we have to create a better life for all.

We have to alter the negative perception that where mining activities occur communities become poorer instead of becoming better through the exploitation of their natural resources.

It is my hope that as public representatives seated here, we will continue to advocate for natural resource governance that put people at the centre of development.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 89 The story of Sekhukhune gives us an insight of the work we do amongst our communities during our constituency period.

It is for this reason, House Chairperson and members, I will submit to this House that we need to advocate for more resources to support this important work that we do as public representatives.
To compliment financial resources, we need to ensure that the structure of our programme as this Parliament is such that it gives us time for our constituency work.

Hon members, an effective Parliament requires us to build capacity of each and every member.

In the past financial year, we have supported four committees through training relevant to their needs and gave out 53 bursaries to members.
Hon Minister of Higher Education, you will be pleased that since 2014, 142 bursaries have been given out to Members of this Parliament.

[Applause.]

Twenty seven were research programmes which have been completed, comprising of four PHD qualifications and 23 Masters Qualifications.

[Applause.]

I wish to congratulate all members from all parties who have succeeded during this past years.

Hon members, Parliament requires that we support members in doing their work.
One of UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 90 the matters is the physical space as it has been mentioned by hon members here in this debate, particularly for wellness purposes but also for them to undertake their work effectively.

The day in the life of parliamentarian is not fully understood by a number of people.

They engage with us as we debate here in this Assembly.

However, a lot of work happens in committees.


It is for this reason that hon members on your behalf, we continue to engage the remuneration of public bearers so that they can better structure what is due for Members of Parliament.

Madam Speaker in absentia, I am not sure whether you are back now, through this Parliament, we have nominated members to serve in the in the Judicial Services Commission.
As your representatives, we have ensured that the transformation of the judiciary is realised, amongst others, through the appointment in the bench.

We are proud to say in the past year, seven female judges have been appointment, and one of them as the President of the Supreme Court.

[Applause.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 91 We have also raised sharply the issue of delay judgement because in our view justice delayed is justice denied.
Hon members, parliamentary diplomacy remain an important work for our Parliament in which we influence positions on global governance.

We engage in a range of multilateral fora guided by our foreign policy of ubuntu and human rights.

As a member of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, we have been active in shaping its policies and programme.
This year, August 2018, South Africa will be finishing its term of Office as the Executive Chairperson of Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, CPA, Africa Region.

We wish to thank, hon Madam Lindiwe Maseko, who has ensured that during her tenure, we have resolved the change of status of the CPA from being a charity organisation to a multilateral institution.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

House Chairperson, I am proud that the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, particularly its women's organ has continued to advocate for increase women representation in Parliament.
I therefore, want to implore political parties in this House to make sure that as we go for next year’s election, they review their policies and strategies to ensure UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 92 that we can increase the numbers of women to more than 50% in this House come next year.

Hon members, this Parliament is a member of the Pan African Parliament and has had representatives who have made contributions towards realising its objective.
Madam Ruth Kalyan, thank you very much and Madam Memela for the work that you have done in this institution.

There is no doubt a lot that needs to be done to ensure that this Continental Assembly represent the views and the needs of its people.

It must fully undertake the role of advisory to the African Union and develop model laws where necessary.

It must explore ways of working with regional Parliaments and parliamentary forums where such are not in existence.
However, we remain concern about the accountability of the leadership of that institution.

We will ensure that in our turner, we undertake work of reforming that institution so that it can truly execute its work.

As I close, I want to remember the words of Mama Albertina Sisulu which she actually ... UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 93 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, would you just take your seat please.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you, hon member.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, your time is not completed.

There is just a point of order that I am taking.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: House Chairperson, I wish to know whether the hon presiding officer is prepared to take a question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, are you prepared to take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Yes, I am.


The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Could the hon member explain why only 147 bursaries have been provided?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you very much, Minister of Higher Education.

We have provided 147 bursaries thus far, given the applications that we have received.

This is only the bursaries to individual members who have made UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 94 their application.
It doesn’t account for committee’s works that have actually been undertaken through committees training.

I hope that answer is satisfactory.

[Applause.]

In conclusion, I wish to state the words of Mama Albertina Sisulu which she said during the 1987 rent boycott in Soweto.

I quote: Women are the people who are going to relieve us from all this oppression and depression.

The rent boycott that is happening in Soweto now is alive because of the women.
It is the women who are on the street committees, educating the people to stand up and protect each other.

Today in this Parliament, we are witnesses of how women have executed their roles as public representatives.

Through their engagement with policy, legislation and oversight, we are better today than we were before.

We owe it to our children and their children to make South Africa an equal society where women and men can enjoy and exercise their human rights as equal citizens.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 95 I wish to thank you Members of Parliament for having kept us on our toes as presiding officers even though at times you have given us difficulty.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time has now expired.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): As I close, I want to thank my Co-Chairpersons, Queeen Boroto and the Juke of London, Frolick and the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker, but also our support staff.

I thank you.
I thank you.

[Time expired.]

[Applause.]

Adv A de W ALBERTS: House Chairperson, Speaker, Parliament is an important and august institution wherein we, as representatives of various constituencies, have a duty to bring orderly debate and rational thought to bear, to properly serve our constituencies as well as those people who did not necessarily vote for us.
Unfortunately, this Parliament has, since 2009, started to descend into a new creature, not one of noble stature and democracy, but one of disrespect towards each other, in general.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 96 Afrikaans: Die vlak van debatte word al hoe swakker, aangesien daar eendersyds, nie meer ag geslaan word op wat ons vir mekaar sê nie, en andersyds, omdat die paar minute wat partye tot hulle beskikking het, meestal gebruik word om vernederende skelwoorde na mekaar te slinger en in klankgrepe, ook bekend as “sound bytes”, te praat.
Die feit dat die ANC soveel tyd kry om te praat, terwyl ander partye se tyd verskraal word tot drie minute of minder, dra ook hiertoe by.

Dis tyd om die formule waarvolgens praattyd ingedeel word, meer regverdig te maak.

English: It is disconcerting that the invective among MPs now has escalated from witty sound bytes that may even contain some tongue in cheek humour, to outright name-calling, swearing and threats to persons.

Acts of overt racism have become the order of the day.
This cannot be condoned, and Parliament must rectify its path to bring mutual respect back among Members of Parliament.

A further matter that deserves attention is the oversight role of Parliament.
Parliament is constitutionally mandated to UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 97 perform an oversight function over the executive and for an important moment in history neglected to do, precisely during the Nkandla-saga where the then President Zuma was protected at all costs by members of the ruling party.

When the winds of change started blowing suddenly within the ANC, it performed an about-turn and went for the kill in the state capture matters.
We are most certainly in agreement with Parliament’s new-found focus on holding the executive to account, but why was it necessary to get to this point via the mechanisms of internal change within the ANC?

This is not how Parliament is supposed to function.

Afrikaans: Noudat ons hierdie kruin bereik het, wil ons ’n beroep doen dat die Parlement, op die minste, sal bly funksioneer soos nou, maar tog dat daar ook nog meer noukeurig gewerk sal word om die uitvoerende gesag verantwoordbaar te hou.
Dit is in die hele land se belang dat Parlementslede, selfs al verteenwoordig mens die regerende party, hulle verantwoordelikheid in hierdie verband sal besef en nakom.

English: UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 98 Lastly, we wish to thank the parliamentary personnel for their hard work and support in sometimes very volatile and abnormal circumstances in Parliament.
We also wish to advise that no Member of Parliament may treat member of the parliamentary personnel indifferently or otherwise with disrespect, as this institution cannot function without you.

When we express our gratitude, we extend it to all the parliamentary workers from the cleaning personnel to the librarians.

We notice your hard work.

I thank you.


Ms D CARTER: Chair, during this Budget Vote last year, Cope defended our constitutional democracy and Parliament in the face of the treasonous phenomenon of state capture.

We pointed out that Parliament had failed in its cardinal duty of ensuring that power was not abused, by not exercising over sight and holding the executive accountable.
We contended that you had broken this fifth Parliament; that Parliament, through your actions and inactions, had lost its integrity, its credibility and moral legitimacy; and that the outcome thereof, was that South Africans had been betrayed and now lived under a tyranny, in a mafia state.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 99 As Prof Raymond Suttner has recently noted, in the early years of our democracy, there was in certain quarters, a fear that a coup would be attempted.
As a consequence, some leading elements of our security forces, retained from the apartheid regime were removed, in order to safeguard our democratic order.

Ironically, he writes, it was neither these people, nor other members of the former apartheid regime or other right-wing forces that undermined our hopes of a better life for all, but scandalously, it was the actions of the oldest liberation movement on the African continent that undermined and imperilled our democratic project and our future.
Prof Suttner then questions as to how we ensure a return to legality, strengthen our democratic life, and hopefully go beyond simply returning to the way things were before the treasonous Zuma era.

It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge how Parliament, as a collective, has fought to claw back its role and responsibilities.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 100 It will, however, take much more effort and consistent action to ensure that Parliament regains its credibility, integrity, and moral legitimacy.

Just look at the contempt, disdain and disrespect that have been shown to Parliament and its committees by Ministers and officials implicated in the state capture project, let alone by the likes of Dudu Myeni, Duduzane Zuma, and the Guptas.
Cope supports the observations and findings of the high level panel that we need a more activist Parliament that will ensure effective and meaningful oversight over the executive; that Parliament should consider the adoption of legislation to ensure greater parliamentary and public oversight over appointments to public office, as a means of ensuring their increased independence; and that Parliament should play a greater role in the initiation and development of draft legislation.
For the sake of our democracy and constitutional order, we need a better resourced Parliament.

If we have a look, for example, at the law state advisors, if we look at the staff of Parliament, we are really underresourced when it comes to UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 101 human resources.

As matters stand, and if we are to give effect to these recommendations, this Budget Vote is wholly inadequate.

In the circumstances, Cope calls for the review of this Budget Vote.
Thank you.

Mr A N MASONDO: Chairperson, hon members, guests at the gallery and fellow South Africans.

Chairperson, 12 minutes is not enough to deal with the work of the ethics committee and related structures, its implications and steps that need to be taken to address all our complex challenges.

Going back a year back can indeed be instructive.


During the debate on Budget Vote 2: Parliament, the Chief Whip of the DA, Hon Steenhuisen, amongst others, though briefly, raised what he referred to as a concern on the Ethics Committee for being “efficient when dealing with DA matters” but drags its feet when “dealing with the related issues”.

He labelled the committee as “captured”.

That “it (the committee) even stop meeting when looking at ANC matters”.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 102 But what is the reality?

What are the objectives that Parliament has set for this committee?

What are some of the key challenges experienced?

Regarding the future, what pitfalls should be avoided?

These are some of the questions we need to look at in an ongoing manner.

The Joint Committee on Ethics and Members Interest held its inaugural meeting on 8 July 2014.
Hon A Masondo from NA and hon A Singh from the NCOP were elected as Co-Chairpersons.

On 17 September 2014, the committee adopted the 2014 Register of Members Interests.

On the 15 October 2014 a workshop to familiarise members of the committee and ensure a better understanding of the Code of Ethical Conduct was held.

In keeping with the tradition of sharing experience, the committee has met and engaged with provincial legislatures and municipal councils who do related ethics work.
This include, amongst others, the Gauteng and Free State Provincial Legislatures, the City of Johannesburg (thrice), Ekurhuleni Metro (twice), eThekwini Metro; the Secondary Cities of Mangaung, Buffalo City and Polokwane.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 103 Chairperson, this committee has done a lot of work in the past four years since it was constituted as a Joint Committee of Parliament made up of members of the NCOP and the NA.
Schedule 2 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa in the part that deals with solemn affirmation speak of: Being faithful to the Republic of South Africa.

Obeying, respecting, and upholding the Constitution and all other laws of the Republic; and, a promise to perform functions as a member of the NA and as a permanent delegates of the NCOP or as a Member of the Provincial Legislature.
The work we do in the committee is informed by the Constitution, Relevant Legislation and the Code of Conduct.

Our approach in doing our work is characterised by: Correcting the behaviour of MPs and not being punitive; and, ensuring that all issues brought before the committee are dealt with in a way that is fair, firm and consistent.

The Joint Ethics Committee is there primarily to foster public trust, seeks to improve public perception of Parliament and all its institutions as well as that of MPs.
In doing its work, the committee seeks to also advise members and provide UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 104 guidance, to investigate complaints and to craft and prepare reports to Parliament.

Chairperson, on previous occasions we have raised the question of ethics and revolutionary morality.
In doing so, we had sought to frame relevant questions of what in our context members of this legislature ought to be doing to ensure abiding credibility and good standing of Parliament.

Chairperson, we come from a tradition of anti-colonial struggle.

Our aim is to realize the National Democratic Revolution.
It is in this context that the Freedom Charter adopted in Kliptown in June 1955 and RSA Constitution Act 108 of 1996 remain a lodestar that assist to refocus our minds on the establishment of a National Democratic Society.

We need to remind ourselves that there is, in existence, a wealth of Revolutionary experience and literature to help enrich the work that we do.
There is so much to learn from Lenin, Ho-Chi Minh, Maotsetung, Fidel Castro, Rosa Luxembourg, Kwame Nkruma, Samora Machel, Nelson Mandela, Albertina Sisulu and many others.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 105 Whether we be members of mainstream or other Christian churches, whether we subscribe to Judaism, African Indigenous beliefs, Hindu, Islam or be atheist, we do need to acknowledge that we are building from a particular moral and ethical foundation; hence the need to identify the good in all of this and build on it.

Whether we are aware of it or not, we all operate with certain presumptions and assumptions.
In this Parliament, we should always create an environment that enables ideas to contend.

This will enable us to critically assess and evaluate our own views.

No one should seek to impose their own views rand ideas on others.
In recent times there’s been a growing tendency to deliberately stall progress by amongst others, contrary to previous Parliaments, by doing the following: To clog up the system by lodging politically motivated cases; The tendency of political parties to be partisan and narrowly seek to score narrow political points; To seek to put enormous pressure on the Acting Registrar of Members’ Interest and the Office to do the bidding of individuals or political parties as was the case with Fazela Mohamed; To ignore the capacity constraints UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 106 and related objective requirements; To defend wrongdoing by disguising it as protecting comrades or fellow party members; To ignore or under play the complexity of state capture or even to seek to remove it from the equation.
Chairperson, referring to the Committee as a “hit Squad" detracts from what all of us should be doing.

Given our history, the mere use of the name “hit squad” is indeed insensitive.

Chairperson, one of the key issues that lingers on the mind of people in our society is, the near anarchy that has characterised the beginning of the 5th Parliament and referred to the Powers and Privileges Committee.

The new Parliament will continue to grapple with this and similar matters.
Chairperson, part of our task across the political spectrum should be to get rid of our own internal demons.

Only then will we be on track to consolidate the building of a truly non-racial, non-sexist, democratic and prosperous South Africa.

The ANC Supports this Budget Vote.

Thank you very much.

[Applause.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 107 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you hon member.
As I call hon Dudley to podium, I want to congratulate and with hon Dlodlo happy birthday.

[Applause.]

Happy birthday to you [Singing.]

I will finish the song later.

Hon Dudley!

Mrs C DUDLEY: Good job you didn’t ask me to sing.

[Laughter.]
[Laughter.]

Parliaments Budget is expected to provide the support services required by Parliament to fulfil its constitutional functions, assist political parties represented in Parliament to secure administrative support, service constituents, and provide members of Parliament with the necessary facilities.
The ACDP welcomes the Speaker’s recognition of the need, in terms of support services, that are under tremendous strain and legal services is a good example of this so I’m going to amplify your voice on this matter.
This office provides an ongoing range of specialized services that includes oral and written advice to committees; advice to the Joint Tagging Mechanism on the classification of Bills, drafting Bills of exceptionally high quality, as well as drafting contracts and policies; amongst other ad hoc services.

Not to mention legal UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 108 support when committees are conducting constitutionally mandated oversight of the executive.
I have only realized recently, that this small team in legal services also manages the litigation against Parliament and I can only imagine what a huge task this is.

I was shocked to find out that all these services, which each one of the team always delivers in a professional and competent manner, are provided by only eight legal advisers and three senior legal advisers under the stewardship of the chief legal adviser.
Considering that there are approximately 54 portfolio committees and a single legal adviser can have up to 10 Bills at any given time; the broad range of functions that this office provides with absolute proficiency is unthinkable and frankly unfair.

The unwanted thought is just how much longer can this small team survive the pressure, let alone be expected to sustain the excellence that we have come to expect of them.
The ACDP urges management to support this office by increasing their capacity or we will all have to face the consequences.

These men and women are at high risk of burnout.


Our legal UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 109 human resources are a scarce commodity, not many want this stressful job and those that do probably wouldn’t cut it as the demands and broad skills that have to be developed in a short space of time are almost too much to ask and we should not take this for granted.
The ACDP has been a source of additional stress in their lives in terms of the assistance we have had with drafting of private members bills over the years and yet we have always received the most professional and excellent service.

As my colleagues and I tend to participate on many committees apart from those we are a member of, when they are dealing with legislation the ACDP has a special interest in.

We are conscious of the never ending pressure on our law advisors.
The ACDP highly commends and respects these ‘super heroes’ in our midst serving their country with humility, sacrifice and excellence.

We also want to thank the staff of Parliament in general and our parliamentary researchers and content advisors, specifically; we are grateful for their talents and their dedication.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 110 Then there is our IT department that also appears to be stretched.
I don’t envy them having to deal with MPs’ anxiety and impatience when technology challenges occur.

Again the ACDP appeals to management to support these offices and take care of our scarce resources.

We also call on Treasury to recognize the damage done to the country if the work of parliament is undermined by overly constrained budgets that lead to us ‘wearing out’ and losing valuable people.
Lastly, the ACDP welcomes the Speaker’s reference to constituency work and the need for MPs to be supported adequately; present budget constraints are an issue in this regard.

The value of constituency involvement can be measured in people’s greater awareness of the importance of their participation in the processes of parliament [Time Expired.]

And the ACDP will support this budget, thank you.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): House Chair, hon Speaker, hon Deputy Speaker, members of the executive, hon members, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, it is an UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 111 important task of this Parliament is to continue with the powerful legacy that uTata uMadiba and uMama Sisulu has entrusted to us of creating a just and fair society for all.
Our work as representatives of the people must reflect and stay true to uTata uMadiba and uMama Sisulu’s legacy, including his unwavering commitment to progressive internationalism, justice, equality and a nonracial world.

In 2002, Madiba made one of the most profound statements when he said and I quote: “What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived.
It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead.” It is in this spirit that Parliament’s participation in international relations continues to consolidate and strengthen our vision of creating a better South Africa in a better Africa and a just world.
We will in this House agree that these leaders set the foundation for us to build a new society out of the ashes of the past apartheid regime that was isolated by the world and declared apartheid a crime against humanity.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 112 As we move forward to the Sixth Parliament, we need to build on this momentum and pursue efforts of previous parliaments of prioritising aspirations and values as enshrined in the National Development Plan.
As participants in the global arena, we participated in different platforms that enable us to influence and advance our national interests.

At the Interparliamentary Union, IPU, Assembly held in March this year 2018, we used our allocated votes to support the adoption of the resolution on Jerusalem, which is about the consequences of the US declaration on Jerusalem and the rights of the Palestinian people in Jerusalem in the light of the UN Charter and resolutions.
This resolution, amongst others, calls upon all parliaments to urge their governments to recognise the State of Palestine on the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital and for the absolute rejection of the recent US administration’s decision regarding Jerusalem and considers it null and void.

This resolution is in line with Resolution 2334 adopted by the Security Council in December 2016.
The 54th Conference of the ANC took a resolution that the South African embassy in Israel be downgraded from an embassy to a liaison office.

In the UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 113 spirit of these resolutions, this Parliament is urged to support our government’s withdrawal of our ambassador in Israel.
On March, the Israeli parliament passed a law allowing the interior Minister to revoke the residency rights of Palestinians living in Jerusalem on very vague grounds of breach of loyalty to Tel Aviv.

This law is the same as the Group Areas Act that was passed on our people and forced them to live in homelands and take away our land.

District Six in the Western Cape is a good example of such atrocities.
During the apartheid years in this country, children were murdered, activists disappeared into thin air, people were put into jails, people were displaced and forced to live under the Acts that were very divisive.

Fertile land with either agriculture or minerals was stolen.

Is it not what is happening in Palestine?

Is Israel not an apartheid state?

Looking at what happened to us in South Africa, we really say that what is happening in Palestine tells that Israel is an apartheid state.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

There is no difference between the way we were treated during apartheid South Africa UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 114 and the way Palestinians are treated now.

Israel is an apartheid state and should be treated as such.

We will continue as the South African Parliament to lobby for Southern African Development Community, SADC, to become a full legislative body to ensure development in issues of infrastructure, sanitation, child marriages, water and land.
The Pan-African Parliament, PAP, has just elected the new bureau.

It is our commitment that the PAP must continue to be a beacon of good practice and good governance.

And, by so saying we will work hard that the principle of rotation, that the Francophone countries do not want to adhere to, be respected.

We urge Parliament to play a critical role in ensuring that all matters related to the wellbeing of the PAP constitute a strategic responsibility of this Parliament.
We will also ensure that PAP becomes a legislative body and we will implore our government to move towards finalising the host agreement with the African Union.

We congratulate the South African delegation led by the Chairperson of the NCOP, Mma Modise in making sure that South African issues are put on the table.

Sepedi: UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 115 Kopano ke maatla!
Ba re: “Tau tša hloka seboka se šitwa ke nare e hlotša.” A re yeng ... English: ... PAP and make sure that Africans gain out of our participation in that Parliament.

We want to alsdo thank all members of different focus groups, for instance, for making sure that we move the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, CPA, from just being a charity organisation to an international body that will meet its diplomatic responsibilities.

The Freedom Charter states that there shall be peace and friendship.
I must report that we have numerous requests for the establishment of these friendship groups, as the Speaker has already alluded to.

We will obviously be prioritising the countries that stood in solidarity with us in our struggle for freedom from our colonisers who promoted oppressive systems in our African countries.
We will continue to raise the plight of the sub-Saharan people, believing that Morocco’s readmission to the African Union will make them listen to the voice of the people around the rights of the Sahrawi people.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 116 Parliament has started to cover delegation activities in all international forums.

We will continue to engage the public broadcaster to take an interest in the activities of Parliament and its international work.
This will allow the people an insight into the international activities of their elected representatives.

We will also use mini-plenaries to make sure that resolutions that are taken at international forums are debated in this House.

Again, I want to make an appeal to all the parties in the House to make sure that that whenever we have these international delegations, we have a 50/50 representation of women.

Hon Hlengwa, we must have a 25% of the youth that go to these delegations.
The ANC has been doing that; we are just urging other parties to make sure that we are seen to be practising what we preach In conclusion, I would like to thank the Speaker of Parliament ... Sesotho: ... MmaThabang, ngwetsi ya Bataung.

Mme, o re pepile ka lerato.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 117 English: You have the work of the international relations at heart by ensuring that International Relations and Protocol Division functions optimally.
Sepedi: Gomme re leboga le Job - Ntate Sithole ... English: ... for always being there for us with your staff – you make our work much easier.

To the administration, I just want to thank the staff in all divisions of the Speaker’s Office for their dedication and passion in executing their duties.

Let me not forget to thank the office of the Acting Secretary to Parliament, who continues consulting with the staff.

Thank you “sesi” [sister] Baby.

Sepedi: Mmagongwana o swara thipa ka bogaleng.


English: The ANC supports this budget.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 118 Mr M P GALO: Hon Chair, the National Assembly is the nation’s flag-bearer.

This description was canvassed eloquently by the Constitutional Court in the Democratic Alliance v Speaker of the National Assembly and Others in the following terms, and I quote: Parliament is entrusted with the onerous task of overseeing the executive.
Tyrannical rule is usually at the hands of the executive, not least because it exercises control over the police and the army, two instruments often used to prop up the tyrant through means like arrest, detention, torture and even execution.

Parliamentary oversight is a constitutional obligation that the House must muster without fear, favour or prejudice.

The nature of our electoral system must not be scapegoated for lack of effective oversight over the executive.
Parliament, when properly equipped, does carry out its constitutional mandate in terms of the true dictates of the Constitution.

The National Assembly, in terms of the last review, passed 24 Bills.

The National Council of Provinces UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 119 debated and passed 17 Bills.

Two of the Bills passed were Private Members’ Bills sponsored by the ACDP and the IFP.
The Speaker of the National Assembly has conducted her sessions impartially with a modicum of dignity.

In the secret ballot case she extended an olive branch to all the represented political parties.

In all fairness, the robustness of the Fifth Parliament has sought to test the agility of this august House.

We take great pride in the work of the portfolio committees.
These committees have effectively rewritten the script of the cause of executive accountability, have held private firms accountable, and have scrutinised the books of government departments.

On a lighter note, as I conclude, we wish to take this opportunity to commend Parliament for delivering the world’s most endeared event: the state of the national address.

It is on this occasion that the guards of honour, the junior guards, eminent persons and the military assembled to grace this event.

I thank you.
I thank you.

[Time expired.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 120 Mr L R MBINDA: Thank you very much, Chairperson of the session.

I am greeting you all, hon members, present here today.

As the PAC, obviously, we are worried about the luxurious holiday mood that our Parliament and government departments are operating in.
On a daily basis, until the last state of the nation address, we used to witness wasteful and unnecessary expenditure, but I must also commend this Parliament more especially for the state of the nation address of this year.

We are Africans in Africa and therefore everything that we do must be in our best interests as the African people.

We need to promote and protect our values and culture.

We agree as the PAC that we should take positive lessons from others.
However, this does not warrant us copying and pasting Roman Dutch law but expecting it to be responsive to our unique African situation, as a relevant example.

The vantages of colonialism are evident in many aspects of our society, and Parliament is not immune to them as parliamentary rules, regulations and procedures are yet to be Africanised.
For as long as Parliament, like the rest of the judicial UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 121 system, is dictated to by Western jurisprudence, we cannot claim to be free.

Until such time as African jurisprudence informs our parliamentary processes, we shall forever compromise our people as we continue aping other people and not revisiting our own.

To the argument that we do not have our own, the counterargument is that we do have the principles of mud(?)
and we can build upon them and be effective.

It is a disaster of the so-called democracy that it is premised on foreign ways, foreign principles and foreign values.

Such has to change.

An Africanist democracy has to be and must be informed by the ways and values of our ancestors which are at liberty to develop.
Lastly, we call upon Parliament to relook at this without undermining the rule of proportion representation, the issue of three minutes, because we cannot make a meaningful contribution if we are only allocated three minutes.

[Interjections.]

The PAC supports the debate with the above for your consideration.

[Time expired.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 122 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you, hon member.
I do hope that the Chief Whips of various parties have heard your appeal, hon Mbinda.

Ms L M MASEKO: House Chairperson, hon Speaker, Deputy Speaker, Ministers and Deputy Ministers who are here, hon members, the Mandela and Sisulu families here, good afternoon.
In the year in which we jointly celebrate the 100th anniversaries of the birth of icons — Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela, on whom we draw lessons and inspiration as we confront the challenges of the present, and Albertina Nontsikelelo Sisulu, a stalwart of our struggle remembered for her strength, compassion and tireless commitment to the people of our country — we have committed ourselves to unite, rebuild and renew in order that we may fulfil and realise their vision of a free and equitable society.
Today we are debating the most important budget, being Budget Vote 2 of Parliament.

This is because only Parliament can pass the budget.

Without Parliament, the annual strategic plans and annual performance plans of departments cannot be realised, and without the budget, there will be no service delivery.

So, UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 123 this shows how important Parliament is within the three arms of governance.
The head of this institution, who is the Speaker, is given limited time to present to the House.

It cannot be right, taking into account that when we have the state of the nation address there is no time limit.

The rules must correct this.

The new dawn has emerged as a rallying call to inspire confidence and hope among our people, in the ANC and government; known as the thuma mina concept that is well articulated by President Ramaphosa.
The dominant theme in the 2018 state of the nation address was an appeal to all South Africans to embrace their common nationhood as well as an emphasis on social compacting as the primary basis for finding lasting solutions to the most intractable problems confronting our society.

The ANC has for a while recognised that the project of nation- building and social cohesion, made possible by the democratic breakthrough of 1994, was coming under threat.
This was mainly as a result of an uneven success of government’s social and economic policies aimed at ensuring that the wealth of the country was shared more equitably and the quality of life for UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 124 the majority of our people improved in line with the injunctions of the Freedom Charter.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order!

Hon Louw, can you take your seat?


Ms L M MASEKO: The new dawn symbolises the birth of something new out of the old.

It suggests a new way of doing things.

In essence it is about public representatives acting in a manner that wins back the trust and confidence of the people in us and government.

It must be about building a professional Public Service staffed by people who will discharge their responsibilities to serve the people with distinction.
It is about adherence to good governance practices and fighting corruption in all its manifestations, including corporate capture of our state institutions by elite business and criminal enterprises.

The task of a democratically elected government is to focus on the agenda of reconstruction and development to address the social and economic needs of the people.
The agenda of a developmental state requires an approach which acknowledges UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 125 the need for a fundamental transformation of society, socially and economically.

We are determined that public representatives here in the people’s Parliament — the tribune of the people — should undertake their responsibilities with efficiency, diligence and integrity.
We need to lead by example and instil a new discipline to do things correctly, to do them completely and to do them timeously, so that the activist Parliament, which the ANC speaks of, achieves even greater outputs that have a qualitative and positive impact on the lives of our people.

For Parliament to discharge its duties, we will, going forward, need to address its resource capacity both as a quantum but also how it is derived.
The national tasks set out in the state of the nation address will only be achieved in the greater part because of Parliament’s constitutional responsibility within the state.

The tasks set out in the state of the nation address will require even greater oversight and capacity if the objectives of the commitments outlined by the President are to be met.
These commitments are not abstract, reduced to fielding UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 126 questions to the President on a quarterly basis.

These commitments directly involve Parliament in its ability to execute its constitutional responsibilities to the maximum, through oversight, research, analysis of reports and connecting with our people at a far higher level.
This will have to be driven by empirical evidence, taking decisions on the balance of this empirical evidence, enhanced and cutting- edge support to members in a manner that Parliament is a reflection of strategic value-add and an arm of state.

ANC resolutions adopted at its 54th national conference in December 2017 give space for all to analyse, reflect and review whether the objectives of the programmes of the ANC-led government are being fulfilled.
We have to be frank in our assessment as to whether Parliament is fulfilling its role as an activist Parliament — a people’s tribune — by ensuring the implementation of policy in the form of draft legislation.

We have to ensure that we resonate to a far higher level of oversight over the policies and programmes that are presented before us.

This needs proper and adequate resourcing of the programmes of Parliament.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 127 In envisioning this new dawn, the context within which we give meaning to this, requires candid review and analysis of our parliamentary work.
These include, but are not limited to: Firstly, political management of the inter-relationship between the legislative arm and the executive, as well as other components of the state; Secondly, our commitment to building an activist Parliament that puts the interests of all South Africans first, especially the poor; Thirdly, legislatures must be felt by the people.
They must be visible through their representatives and have a meaningful impact upon the lives of the people in order for them to feel and see in practice the concept of, “The People shall Govern"; Fourthly, strengthening of our monitoring and evaluation capacity of the work in the implementation of governing party policies; and Finally, oversight and accountability by members must demonstrate the management of the legislative and oversight UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 128 programme of Parliament, which requires capacity, competence and collective action.
The number of vacancies in Parliament, especially in the committee section, poses a serious challenge in enabling Parliament in attaining these commitments that I’ve alluded to.

As the ANC we have, in this Fifth Parliament, driven an enhanced oversight model which has at its political core accountability of mandate, resources and implementation of programmes.
The past two years has witnessed outstanding commitment across committees and ad hoc committees in ensuring that what has been set in place by the state to benefit the people actually does serve these interests and none other.

Even though adequate resources have not been available, we have pushed on with the work, determined that the highest ethics and values displayed through accountability do take place.
Parliament is going to have to resource this area of work more substantially going forward, as the thrust of our work is revealing more and more weaknesses in the functioning of government and state-owned entities.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 129 Our inquiries into respective sectors, even with limited resources, have assisted in uncovering individual malpractices, and with greater resources channelled into this area better results can be achieved.
In scrutinising our legislative oversight we have rigorously encouraged public participation and valuable inputs have enriched the process.

This should be further enhanced by capacitating members in legislation drafting so that they can be able to submit more Private Members Bills on issues raised by South Africans.

The interest of our people in participation has grown with increased confidence in the work of Parliament and its ability to carry out effective oversight.
However, we must assess the effectiveness of the public participation process so that we do not pay lip-service to it but rather ensure that it is filtered into policy making.

The same approach to Parliament has been adopted in the oversight model on the Financial Management of Parliament.
One would want to emphasise the need to speed up the implementation of this Act in order for Parliament to be UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 130 allocated the budget they have submitted, and not be treated like a department — because Parliament is not a department — so that it can also be able to exercise its constitutional obligation of oversight, lawmaking and public participation without any hindrance of the lack of resources.
This will also enable Parliament to have independent verification of issues brought before committees by the executive.

This approach is, however, as some would want us to believe, an exercise merely within these walls.

How we reframe programming going forward is important since we have to meet the responsibilities of the legislative programme, oversight work both here and in the field with the critical work of being amongst our people through constituency work.
We should also utilise the parliamentary constituency offices as extension offices feeding into Parliament.

We will welcome the amendment to the Money Bills Act, which we are currently seized with, as a huge amount of the parliamentary year is taken up with the budgetary cycle.

The ANC recognises that to improve the performance of our parliamentary oversight and accountability responsibilities, UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 131 monitoring and evaluation is crucial.
The development of an effective and efficient monitoring and evaluation model to ensure robust parliamentary oversight, and achievement of government policy and programmes is critical.

We must master providing the milestones and targets for monitoring and an early-warning system for problems over government delivery and system failures.
Our objectives in terms of oversight and accountability must ensure that the Medium-Term Strategic Framework outputs, which are government priorities, are meaningfully translated into programmes and strategic plans.
The quality of our oversight and accountability work is in part a reflection of our capacity to evaluate whether the strategic approaches chosen are having the desired outcomes, addresses challenges and successes, and informs whether approaches should be changed or adapted to improve performance.
Evaluation must analyse both the impact and outcome of our oversight work on government programmes and strategies, and must assist us with improving and adjusting our own UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 132 parliamentary programme approaches for greater impact and achievement of the institutional policy goals.
This should enable us to: Firstly, improve performance, accountability, learning and decision-making; Secondly, assess relevance to improve efficiency, effectiveness and value for money; Thirdly, generate in-depth knowledge for the overall improvement in oversight, and finally, recommend ways to improve both our own work and the work of government.
As much as the ANC agrees that the absence of Ministers and Deputy Ministers are problematic, we also need to acknowledge that answering questions and statements is not the only way that the executive accounts to Parliament, as the executive does not only have their responsibility to Parliament as the totality of their jobs at hand.

We might need to look at a single day in a week, based on cluster rotation, which we can prioritise to have certain Ministers and Deputy Ministers in the House.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 133 Another issue of concern is that of Rule 132(5), which presently gives Ministers and Deputy Ministers two minutes to respond to statements made by members, when there might be up to five issues that the Minister or Deputy Minister would have to respond to.

Maybe the Rules Committee should look at amending this rule, probably giving two minutes per statement related to them.
We would like to congratulate the Speaker and the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces on the appointment of the High Level Panel that has since finished its task and presented a report on the Assessment of Key Legislation and Acceleration of Fundamental Change, which is, in itself, a manifestation of oversight.

We welcome the appointment of the subcommittee of the Joint Rules Committee to look into the recommendations.
In the case of certain recommendations, we can safely say that we have already covered considerable ground in addressing these.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members!

Can you please not shout at each other while the speaker is on the podium?

I don’t want to hear your stories, which I am hearing UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 134 as some of you are speaking loudly.

[Interjections.]

I will tell you one day what I heard.

Continue hon member.


Ms L M MASEKO: In other cases proposals will require the governing party to evaluate policy against what has been raised.

Considerable engagement is required.

With regard to the Constitutional Review Committee, the Joint Committee will review section 25 of the Constitution and other sections where necessary, to make it possible for the state to expropriate land in the public interest without compensation.
The Joint Committee is mandated to propose the necessary constitutional amendments, where applicable, about the kind of future land tenure regime needed.

A comprehensive programme to get the opinion of our people in this regard has begun over the past weekend led by the ANC and will begin at the end of the second term.

The ANC supports this Budget Vote.


I wanted to say that the figures of unemployment that the DA has raised are also partly caused by ... We found when we do our oversight work ... that’s where we pick up some of these issues and we found that in areas, especially in tourism, restaurants and agriculture, ... we find that on the farms most of our people are being UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 135 retrenched and then those farmers employ foreigners as cheap labour.
This cannot be acceptable.

As part of our oversight work we will continue monitoring this and making recommendations for their correction.

Thank you very much.

[Applause.]

Mr N T GODI: Chairperson, comrades and hon members.

It is the contention of the APC that Parliament as the representative of the people must be the centre, the lead-organ in the fight for substantive transformation, the welfare and the well-being of the people.
It must be the lead-organ in the fight against corruption and maladministration waste and for good governance.

After more than two decades of political democracy, we can, born out of collective experience which says we are for good governance not as a value or lived experience of the liberals but as representing the collective desire of the African people for a better life, health care, education and services and a better future for their children.
Parliament is obligated by the Constitution to overseer the work of the executive.

Parliament can and should continuously UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 136 enhance its oversight work.

The continued rise in irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure of public money suggests that we are not as effective as we should.

We must raise the levels of revolutionary morality.

For those who misuse public funds, there must be consequences.
Equally, a party that can’t manage public funds effectively and efficiently doesn’t deserve to govern.

The APC will support any motion or Bill that comes before this House that seeks to return the land to its rightful owner who are the Africans and is for the establishment of a state bank, state insurance company and for the nationalisation of the reserve bank.

There is a growing shift towards African nationalism, a movement away from that colossal fraud of rainbowism.
The plight of our people must be what spare us in our work.

I would like to appreciate all my colleagues in the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for the dedication, unity and focus.

I also extend the same appreciation to our hard working staff.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 137 On this Africa Month, it is always worth remembering the words of the hon Marcus Garvey who said and I quote:”our best days don’t lie in our past but in our future once we know who we are”.
The course of Africa must triumph.

The APC supports the Budget Vote.

Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Deputy Speaker, Members of the Executive, hon members, ladies and gentlemen.
Allow me to dedicate this speech in the memory of the former Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Tourism, the late Comrade Beatrice Ngcobo and the former Chairperson of the Portfoilio Committee on Labour, the late Comrade Fezeka Loliwe who contributed immensely to Parliament vision to build an effective people’s Parliament that is responsive to the needs of the people and that is driven by the ideal of realising the better quality of life for all the people of South Africa Committees are central in exercising oversight over the executive and to keep members of the executive individually and collectively accountable for executive action.
To do this, we have been allocated out of a budget of R2,4 billion, of which committees in both Houses have been allocated a total amount of R52 million to execute this responsibility.

The Ad- UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 138 Hoc committees that are established are also financed from this budget.
Furthermore, this amount of R52 million must also cover all expenses associated with weekly meetings, oversight visits, advertisements for statutory appointments, public hearings, study tours and specialised services.

In the lawmaking and oversight function, it is important for as many as possible voices to be heard and not only of those who are either financially able and empowered to attend Parliament or those who are residing in the immediate vicinity of the institution.
This Budget also provides for a mechanism and allocation to cover the expenses of citizens who are not in a financial position to travel to Cape Town and to make oral submissions to committees.

This well-established practice is consistent with our mission statement to represent and act as a voice of the people in fulfilling Parliament’s constitutional mandate.
The National Development Plan, NDP and the Sustainable Development Goals, SDG’s have been incorporated into the UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 139 business plans of all committees; an evaluation of budgetary allocations and departmental alignment to both the NDP and SDG’s are contained in the Budget reports.

However, a lot needs to be done to achieve the objectives and targets as set out in the NDP and SDG’s.
This House, continuously adopt reports that contain clear recommendations that deserve executive action and attention.

These reports emanate from oversight visits, committee meetings and hearings.

The tracking and monitoring of House resolutions taken by this House leaves a lot to be desired.

The current practice of referring House resolution to the executive has certain limitations because it doesn’t monitor the responses of action from the executive to these resolutions that are taken.
To correct this, a dedicated mechanism in the forms of Information and communication technology, ICT, solution that should be located in the office of the Speaker must be implemented as soon as possible.

Over the next two months, the Joint Constitutional Review Committee will undertake public hearings in all nine provinces on the topic of the expropriation of land without compensation.
Considerable human and financial resources have UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 140 been allocated to this task with an estimated Budget of R12,5 million.

a special appeal is made to all the political parties in this House to ensure that these public hearings are conducted in a disciplined and constructive manner to provide a platform for the voices of ordinary citizens from all walks of life.
Not withstanding budgetary constraints, the 5th Parliament has continued to develop mechanisms to guide its work as envisaged in the oversight and accountability model and the strategic plan.

Some of the achievements include the following: the public participation was finally adopted by the Joint Rules Committee in November 2017.
However, the full implementation of this model with a dedicated public participation unit is urgent to streamline activities between the two Houses of Parliament and to provide feedback to those who participate in all our programs.

With regard to ICT, we currently have 312 members who have installed the My Parliament App on 403 devices.
Broadcast facilities have been improved and we currently broadcast from 14 committee rooms and the both Houses of Parliament in high UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 141 definition digital video from a recently commissioned control room.

Our ICT has developed an information portal, which allows for information to be searched for, browsed and retrieved electronically from any location via the internet.
This means that members have 24-hour access to any electronic library resource.

The next step is towards e-lawmaking, to further improve transparency in the lawmaking process.

This will ensure that we have an early warning system in place where undue delays are experienced in the processing of legislation.
Since its establishment in 2013, the parliamentary Budget office, PBO, under the capable leadership of Prof Jahed has earned a reputation as a reliable, professional and independent advisory service to the Finance and Appropriation Committees in both Houses.

The funding and location of the PBO Budget must be finalised to expedite the filling of key vacancies and to broaden the mandate of this office.

The SCOPA and line function committees must continue exercising financial oversight over departments.
The excellent working relationship between committees and the office of the Auditor-General have generally strengthened UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 142 oversight.

However, we must guard against scope creep and ensure that joint processes are undertaken by both SCOPA and the relevant portfolio committees when they deal with matters affecting departments.
The number of Bills in front of committees is at various stages of completion and committees with legislation in front of them will utilise the constituency period in June and July to complete their outstanding work.

Detailed programmes have been submitted in this regard.

The Public Enterprises and Home Affairs Committees have been seized with matters of state capture since June 2017.

This work is done in accordance with Rule 227 that confers wide powers on committees.
This Rule allows a committee to and I quote:” monitor, investigate, enquire into and make recommendations concerning any such executive organ of state, constitutional institution or other body or institution”.

The members serving on these committees as well as the lead investigator, Adv Vanara must be commended for their sterling work and dedication under challenging conditions.
The threats, intimidation and allegations of financial enticement could not UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 143 sway their commitment in the execution of their responsibilities.

Last Thursday, upon instruction of the hon Speaker of the National Assembly, I visited the Office of the Chief Justice and met with Mr Terrence Nombembe, the Lead Investigator of the Judicial Commission of Enquiry into State Capture.
The volumes of transcripts of committee minutes and other evidence that was before the respective committees were handed over to the commission.

It was agreed that the National Assembly would co-operate closely with the Inquiry, as the need may arise.

The Parliament must be resolute and decisive in dealing with continued disruptions in committee meetings especially those that have occurred recently in the Labour Portfolio Committee and the Standing Committee on Finance.
Such disruptions are in violation of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Act 29 of 2017 and undermine the Constitution.

These perpetrators must be charged and face the full might of the law.

Another developing trend is the blank refusal of certain persons of interest to appear in front of committees.

This pertains to both the state capture enquiry into Eskom and the UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 144 Steinhoff scandal.
Strong action must be considered by this House to ensure that the sovereignty of Parliament is both respected and protected, otherwise it will simple become the order of the day that any individual will decide whether they can come to appear in front of a committee or not.

In conclusion, I want to express my thanks and gratitude to the Speaker for her continued guidance and also to the other Presiding Officers for their camaraderie.
The Chairpersons of Committees for their collective support and understanding when certain applications can’t be approved.

Also thanks the Chief Whips of political parties for their commitment to make Parliament work well as well as the manager of committees, Mr Tshabalala.
A special word of thanks goes out to all the staff in my office for the selfless service, sacrifices and dedication over the years and last but not least, to my wife who is in the public gallery and the family for their continued support and understanding with the task at hand.

I thank you, hon members.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker and may I say what a great privilege it is to be able to participate in this debate today.
The Speaker is right; I UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 145 did say malibongwe when you came to the podium because I recognise that it is probably our last dance together of the 5th Parliament.

So I had to acknowledge you.

It is a privilege to participate today in what will probably be the last budget debate before the 5th democratic Parliament draws to a close and we start to prepare the Legacy Report for the transition into the 6th.
It's also an opportunity for us to reflect on where this Parliament has done well and where it has not, and also what place our Parliament holds in the minds and experience of the people of South Africa.

In doing so it would be wrong to ignore the fact that trust in Parliament as an institution of democracy has plummeted from 65% in 2004 to 38% in 2015.

These findings of the Human Sciences Research Council are contained in the High Level Panel report tabled at the end of last year.
Why is this significant?

The High Level Panel went on to say: “Trust is an essential element of democratic legitimacy, and the declining levels of trust in ... institutions impact negatively on nation-building”.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 146 What are the reasons for this loss of trust in our democratic institutions?
I would advance that one of the chief reasons there has been such a loss of trust in our institutions of democracy is because many of our citizens do not see these institutions, including our Parliament, as relevant to their daily lived experience, nor do they see them as offering a ladder of opportunity out of their present conditions.

A former Leader of the Opposition wrote that in politics there are two essential choices in the political arena.
You can choose to be a signpost or you can be a weather vane.

He wrote, a weather vane will: “twist in the wind ... and trim your sails to the prevailing winds of political correctness.

That is the easy path of least resistance but it usually leads, over time, downhill”.

A signpost on the other hand: "does not bend to the vagaries of the moment but stands for a cause ... for an enduring set of principles and beliefs”.
There is no shortage of institutions that have become weather vanes to the prevailing winds of our time.

They twist and contort themselves, this way and that, spinning listlessly, UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 147 trying to find favour with the current faction in charge or point to the populist side of the latest cause du jour.
We saw it with the Hawks, that when the foul winds of state capture blew, failed to act when they should have against the Guptas, and that only now as the political winds have shifted and changed, have suddenly sprung to life; too little, too late!

We saw it with the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, which blew this way and that, protecting those in political office and their connected elite from prosecution.

Now that the winds have shifted, they have started to act; too little, too late!
And we saw it with this Parliament that protected and defended the worst excesses of the last eight years of the Zuma administration.

Some latter-day claimants of sainthood now decry the thievery, the corruption, the looting and the rot, yet they were the very same ones who sat around the Cabinet table nodding, backslapping, and drawing salaries and perks, all the while knowing exactly what was going on.

Sadly, they still sit here today.


UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 148 What we needed in these difficult times and with these challenges were democratic institutions that stood solid, rooted in values and principles, secure in their mandate and that acted without fear or favour, solid, resolute, and standing up for the Constitution, the rule of law and democracy.

We needed more road signs and fewer weather vanes.


So, the question we have to ask ourselves as Members of Parliament is what is the sort of Parliament we want to create in South Africa?

How do we turn this Parliament into a road sign standing firm as a beacon of democracy rather than a weather vane that twists and turns, buffeted uncertainly by prevailing political winds?
Never is it more important for a Parliament to be a road sign and not a weather vane than when it is confronted by an executive that subverts, breaks the law and ducks accountability.

We witnessed what happened when this very House became a weather vane to the Zuma tsunami of his Presidency.

Instead of standing firm on the Constitution, the rule of law and on principle, we were blown horribly off course over Nkandlagate, Sassagate, Guptagate and Zumagate.
We must never ever have a Parliament again where velvet gloves UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 149 are used to mollycoddle the executive ...

[Interjections.]

... and shield them from accountability.

We will talk about Ms Mvenya when you have dealt with Mr Supra Mahumapelo who is hanging on for dear life, Mr Mnguni.

This House is not a lecture hall or a classroom; it is a robust arena of accountability.
And, let me be clear, no member of this House requires a permission slip from the President or his Ministers to speak up, speak out and hold them accountable!

Surely we must make this House more relevant to the challenges facing our nation and work ...

[Interjections.]

Hashtag Shut up.

Well, I heard that.

Let me just tell you because I’m very glad this issue is being raised.

[Interjections.]

I’m very glad this issue is being raised because let me just tell you something.
This ANC has been trying to get me to shut up for 21 years.

[Applause.]

They have never succeeded and they never will!

And I’m not even scared of concomitant action and the like that is threatened.

You will never shut me up!

I will never stop speaking up!

I UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 150 will never stop standing up!

And I will never stop standing up for what’s right in South Africa!

[Applause.]

We have an unemployment rate of nearly 10 million South Africans.
This is a national disaster that threatens the very fabric of our society.

The latest labour force survey should have triggered an immediate debate in this House of what is to be done, and yet it does not.

We have a complete breakdown of law and order in our country.

Our citizens are murdered indiscriminately in their homes.

Women and children are raped.

Criminals have taken to brazenly ... An HON MEMBER: Where’s De Lille?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I’ll tell you where Mrs De Lille is when you tell me where Mr Jacob Zuma is.

[Laughter.]

This House should be debating a plan of action on how to restore law and order across the land, and yet it does not.

We have a crisis of poverty in our land.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 151 An HON MEMBER: Where’s Marietha?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I’ll tell you where Marietha is when you tell me where Pallo Jordan is.

[Laughter.]
[Laughter.]

We have a crisis of poverty in our land.

Our children are literally starving to death; families reduced to living off sugar water and grass.

This should outrage us, and if we truly are a people-centred activist Parliament, we should be developing a national plan to feed our starving children.

This House should be leading the charge, and yet it does not.

Instead, we selectively debate conflicts and suffering in foreign lands, ignoring the daily conflict and suffering of our own citizens.
We have debates on high holidays, this day, that day, joint sittings commemorating this and that, all retreating further into the glories of the past, yet all the while our present and future lie in peril.

It is little wonder we have this widening trust deficit.

Whereto is the future focus; a vision oriented with an eye on the future to come?
Our House should be initiating debates that point the nation towards the future because, believe you UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 152 me, if we are facing challenges now, innumerable challenges lie ahead of us.
The legislation we pass, the debates we have, the policies we implement and the oversight we do, should be preparing our country and our people, not only for the domestic challenges we currently face but the global challenges that will confront us as a nation going forward.

We should be debating — and this Parliament should be on the very cutting edge of that debate — on artificial intelligence advancements.

The job market is going to change rapidly in the next 20 to 30 years.
Jobs and work as we know it today will simply not exist.

We need to prepare our country and our people for its impacts and position ourselves to be able to take advantage of the huge opportunities that come with it.

Major advances in technologies, the internet of things, drones and biotechnology are all going to force us to compete even more to attract investment, but we cannot compete if we are not even having these debates to prepare us for the future.
We cannot compete if we are still indulging in backward-looking analogue debates on the past in a rapidly evolving future- focused digital era.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 153 We have a golden opportunity to leap this technological divide.

Our education system is broken, and our skills and technological capacities are hamstrung and constrained.

Policy failure and poor planning has left our citizens, particularly our youth, massively vulnerable.
The 2016 Global Information Technology Report released by the World Economic Forum ranked South Africa last in Maths and Science for the third consecutive year.

Our disjointed and outmoded education and skills development processes, and research and development all need to be massively overhauled anyway.

We have the opportunity to do so in a way that gives South Africa the competitive edge in the new economy to come.
We can build a skills and technological powerhouse that will allow the youth of our country to ride the wave of the disruption to come and cash in on being world leaders in key modern industries, but only if we start leading that debate as this House.

If we do not, South Africa and our people will be left behind.

One of the primary functions entrusted to this House is the passing of legislation.
This is not an area where there is UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 154 much to boast about.

The 5th Parliament’s track record on passing legislation has been abysmal.

In the 2017 year the House passed only 11 pieces of legislation.

Taking into account the financial legislation we are bound by law to pass anyway, makes the figure even more miserable.

The truth is that we have not sat enough and often enough to work on and pass legislation.
This has now led to a massive backlog of 34 pieces of legislation in the NA and 15 in the NCOP.

The High Level Panel acknowledged this shortcoming and expressed its disappointment in the key failure to legislate effectively where it said, "The time it takes between the first submission of legislation to Parliament and its passage is too long".
We did not, however, require the panel to point this out A perusal of the Programming Committee minutes and the Joint Programming Committee minutes over the course of the last three and a half years shows how the opposition repeatedly sounded the warning about the legislative logjam and the need to intervene, prioritise and make provision.

We made suggestions repeatedly on what would need to be done, yet these were ignored.

We have become the legislature that does not legislate.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 155 But, allied to this budget of Parliament, begs the further question which relates to our actual capacity as legislators to legislate.
Time and time again over every budget year the members of this House have raised concerns about the imbalance of forces that exist between the executive and Parliament, where the executive has abundant resources, whole departments and batteries of staff, of research, review, planning, legal advice and data analysis, yet the parliamentary research capability is horribly underfunded, the staff massively overworked and underappreciated.
If passing legislation, and good legislation at that, is one of our core functions, then why does the budget not reflect that?

If we don’t seriously and urgently address this huge imbalance of forces, the legislative arm is forever going to be at the mercy of the executive arm.

The ancient Roman poet Juvenal, in his work, Satires, famously asked who will watch the watchers.

In any system, those who exercise oversight over others should themselves be subject to oversight.
The answer to the question that he poses, in our parliamentary instance, is the Ethics Committee of Parliament.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 156 I’m sorry to say, hon Masondo, but your committee has been an absolute abject failure rendered completely moribund by committee leadership that do not understand how ethics work or how to effectively run processes.
The committee has met once this year, despite a massive caseload of complaints against members of this House, ranging from assault of women, to dishonesty, to theft of public money.
It is an indictment on the chairs of this committee that the important work of this committee, so deeply respected during the tenure of Mr Ben Turok as the chairperson, has been reduced to, yes, Mr Masondo, a low-level political hit squad where opposition members are in the crosshairs, but a lumbering and docile committee when governing party members are required to be investigated.

And frankly, I would be ashamed ...


I would have sent a sick note in if I was you, rather than come and defend your miserable record in terms of this committee today.

[Interjections.]

[Applause.]

Mr P J MNGUNI: Deputy Speaker, point of order: The hon member is certainly casting aspersions on the good integrity of hon Masondo.

[Interjections.]

If he wants to do that he must do so UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 157 through a substantive motion.

Then we can deal with it.


Can you please ask him to withdraw that?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon members, we will come back on that matter.

I will go and look at it so that we report it properly here.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I don’t require a substantive motion.
It was a ruling of the High Court of South Africa, which exposed this political hit squad for what it is and said, “The committee was unable to follow even the most basic principles of a fair and just process.” [Applause.]

What an indictment!

What an indictment on you, sir!

[Applause.]

[Interjections.]

Mr P J MNGUNI: Point of order once again, hon Deputy Speaker.

You have made a ruling that you will come back to that.

It means you will check Hansard and all.


I think it is absolutely uncalled for, for the hon member to continue ...

[Interjections.]

... on the same note.

He disregards your ruling.

Thank you.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 158 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.

No, hon member, I’m listening and I will make a ruling at the appropriate time.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: This is the same committee that, when we lodged the first complaint against hon Manana, has still not dealt with it.

He’s onto a second transgression and they still haven’t dealt with the first one.

It just shows you the state and how seriously they take action against ANC members, and how quickly they moved when it was the hon Maimane.

I see Mr Shaik Emam has done a hit and run.

He’s not here.

I just want to say he’s the ultimate in hypocrisy.


I want him to tell me which NFP members are living in Acacia Park, Pelican Park and the others because he decries the fact that members have that.

He talks about the overseas trip, the very impressive and important work we did there in Ghana and London, Madam Speaker, but he fails to point out that his own Chief Whip of his own party attended the very same study tour.

That is rank hypocrisy!


Madam Speaker, when you go out to conduct the investigations into the constituency offices, please do take a little bit of UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 159 time to speak to the staff members in that office, because in Mr Emam’s office, a staff member had to get a restraining order against him as he kept threatening him and illegally docked his pay.

The poor man had to go to various courts of law to try and get justice.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

Mr P J MNGUNI: Hon Deputy Speaker, point of order again.

This is definitely personal and it cannot be right.

[Interjections.]

He’s casting aspersions.

It can’t be right!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member, that is sustained.

That order is sustained.

Go ahead, hon member.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, may I address you?

Which rule was the hon member referring to?

That it’s personal?

What rule is that?

[Interjections.]

Please quote the rule.


Please quote the rule ...

[Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, casting ...

[Interjections.]

... Hon member, take your seat.

Hon member, it’s important that we desist from those personal ...

[Interjections.]

... on members as is required by the rules.

Proceed hon member.
Proceed hon member.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 160 The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, out of respect for you I will withdraw, and I will certainly share the copy of the affidavit and the order of court with the press, because it’s very clear that the ANC is covering up for unfair labour practices.

They talk about the farms and everything that’s going on there, yet they are covering up here for unfair labour practices.
However, I would again take very, very careful note of taking advice from Mr Shaik Emam.

Political parties have one job and that is to contest elections, and when you can’t even register for the last election held in South Africa you have got to ask yourself how seriously can you take Mr Shaik Emam and his party?
The hon Kilian threw her own party under the bus and I agree with her list of indictments against the government, the Home Affairs Department that’s in absolute disarray, clinics that are not working, hospitals that are falling apart ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, what are you rising on?

Take a seat, hon member.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 161 Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, I want to ask whether hon Steenhuisen is prepared to take a question.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, are you prepared to take a question?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I’ll be consulting in Barneys after the sitting.

I’m happy to take it there.

The hon Kilian spoke about that, and she then accused the hon Waters of misleading this House.
Well, it would be very nice if, from time to time, she maybe attended the Parliamentary Oversight Authority, where in front of ANC members, that information was released to the committee in the budget hearings of the last quarter.

So, if she is accusing anybody of lying, please can she go and take it up with the Parliamentary Budget Office and the parliamentary officials who give us the information in the committee?

Again, casting aspersions on your own operation.


With friends like that who needs enemies?

[Laughter.]

I do want to say that our Parliament has achieved much, but has also fallen short of what our Constitution expects from UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 162 us.

I think we can do better as a Parliament and I think that we can do better as parliamentarians.
This House has to become a place that realises the very best dreams of the hopers and defeats the worst intentions of the haters.

The House has to become a place where freedom is defended.

The House has to become a place where opportunity is expanded.

The House has to become a place where diversity is celebrated.

And, the House has to become a place where fairness is legislated.
And if this great Parliament can be that road sign, standing firm through even the darkest night and strongest storms, resolutely directing us to a new hope, then the answers to the questions that we ask will be answered.

The power to solve the immediate challenges that lie in our hands are before us.

We need to have the courage to grasp them.

The challenges lie ahead of us and we must all grasp them together.

Thank you.

[Applause.]


Mr V G SMITH: Deputy Speaker, hon members and distinguished, guests good afternoon.

I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to all the parties represented in this Parliament for their contribution to the progress we have made.
Though we have our differences, often important and UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 163 sometimes profound, we have as a collective demonstrated our overriding commitment to the new order that we have together established.

You have ensured that this Parliament is no rubber stamp in the hands of government and given birth to a new democratic political culture.

Yeah, I am glad you think is rubbish, but listen to what I am about to say.
This is an extract from Madiba’s address on the occasion of the final sitting of the first democratic Parliament on the 26 March 1999.

Madiba spoke rubbish for you.

You must be ashamed of yourself, sir.

Those statements said by Madiba in 1999 are true and relevant today as they were 19 years ago.

As we debate this final Parliament Budget Vote for the Fifth Parliament, we must acknowledge our achievements but also raise our concerns.
As we reflect on the past four years, all political parties represented here should continue to make constructive proposals aimed at transforming this institution into a more effective and efficient machine and to contribute in crafting a legacy for future parliaments to build upon.
Comrades, located within the national development plan are five strategic outcome orientated goals relevant to Parliament, these are: strengthening oversight and accountability; enhancing public involvement; deepening UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 164 engagement in international fora; strengthening cooperative governance; and strengthening legislative capacity.
We must agree that considerable progress has been achieved with regard to oversight and accountability as well as public involvement.

This progress has resulted in South Africans having far more confidence in their public representatives’ willingness to ensure accountability.
With regard to public involvement communities are taking an active role in the governance of our country as can be seen by the popular participation even with the current programme of the constitutional review committee as it pursues its mandate for the amendment or otherwise of section 25 of the Constitution.
Such is the public interest shown and the importance attached to this exercise, that we are witnessing public participation reminence of the drafting of the Freedom Charter and the finalisation of the Constitution of the country.

South Africans have truly moved from just sloganeering about the people shall govern to the reality that the people are governing.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 165 Parliament continues to mature and has now evolved from merely processing legislation that emanates from the executive to Parliament itself initiating legislation.

It is a pity hon Shivambu is not here because contrary to his accession that the ANC lacks capacity to make laws.

Let me give him two examples.

In recent months this House passed the political Party Funding Bill that was initiated and processed entirely by the legislature.
This piece of legislation will ensure greater transparency with regard to who funds political parties and why.

Political parties will henceforth be compelled to account publicly as to how party funds are utilised.

Another very important aspect of this law is that it affords corporate South Africa and other donors an opportunity to contribute to the multiparty democratic project by depositing directly into the multiparty democracy fund.
Fellow South Africans and hon Shivambu, in the next two weeks, yet another Parliament initiated piece of legislation, namely the Public Audit Act Amendment Bill will be tabled in this House.
The primary objective of this Bill, initiated by the legislature, is to grant the Auditor-General the requisite powers to ensure that there are real and immediate UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 166 consequences for financial mismanagement or corruption in both the public and private sector.

To ensure that effective parliamentary oversight and improved public participation is continued, we as Parliament must insist that the institution is appropriately resourced.
Parliament is not an equivalent of a department of government, we are an equal, but autonomous arm of the state and must enjoy both operational and financial independence, and as such Parliament should not be dependent on the executive for funding.

For the 2018-19 financial year, the budget for magistrates and judges salary amounts to R3,2 billion.
At the same time the operational budget for Parliament which is meant to capacitate Members of Parliament to exercise oversight over the executive, amongst other tasks, only received the budget of R1,9 billion.

I argue that the Parliament budget which is more than R1 billion less than just the salary budget for the judiciary is woefully inadequate when we consider that this institution has a constitutional obligation to oversee a country expenditure budget of almost R1,5 trillion.
The current practise whereby parliament is subject to the same UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 167 process as government departments with regard to budget allocation is inconsistent with Parliament’s status as an arm of the state that is equal to the judiciary and the executive.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

We are however aware that the Speakers Forum has started engagements with the Ministry of Finance as well as the Minister in the Presidency with regard to setting up a separate budget process of Parliament and provincial legislatures.

As parliament we should actively support a speedy finalisation of this matter once and for all.
The joint committee on the oversight of Parliament observes that in 2015-16, the final budget allocated to Parliament was R628 million short of what Parliament requested.

In 2016-17, the shortfall was R958 million, in 2017-18 the shortfall was R1 billion and in the 2018-19 the short fall is R476 million.

Essential support such as committee research and budget office support cannot be enhanced due these to budgetary constraints.
Between the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, the Programming Whip and the programming committee, the collective are ceased with the responsibility to ensure that the program of the UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 168 House is finalised after the due consultation between all the political parties.

Part of their responsibilities includes arranging the business on the Order Paper in concurrence with the Leader of Government Business where necessary.
It also includes chairing the Chief Whlp’s Forum and considering requests for committees to sit beyond the seat of Parliament or during sittings of the Assembly.

Currently, this central responsibility to ensure the smooth functioning of the National Assembly is funded by the political parties from their own party allocations.

It is my considered view that pPrliament should be responsible for these costs.
The inherent risk of an underfunded Parliament is that the very engine of parliament, being the committees, is unable to perform optimally.

the time is now to address this matter head-on in the interest of safe-guarding our hard won democracy and for the sustainability of Parliament being the centre where the voices of the voiceless will be heard and respected.
As our democracy deepens, Parliament must recommit and better capacitate itself in order to do more to tackle the still pervasive poverty, unemployment and inequality challenges that UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 169 continue to affect so many of our people.

Addressing these ills decisively needs unity of purpose and co-operation from all of us as different political parties.
The country has moved into an era where the application of austerity or cost reduction measures has become necessary so as to better utilise the scarce financial resources at the country’s disposal.

The provision of the basic needs of all South Africans must never be sacrificed on the altar of corruption or the lack of skills and ability.
The apartheid arrangement that arises from having the executive capital 1 000 kilometres away from the legislative capital has huge cost implications for the national revenue fund as well as the loss of productivity implications of having departmental officials and members of the executive commuting between the two capitals at huge financial costs, sometimes for engagements that last for less than four hours.

This status quo can no longer be justified.


In light of this reality, I believe that our contribution as this Parliament towards directly savings costs in the long-term must include UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 170 advice to the next Parliament to embark upon the program of relocating this institution.

[Applause.]

At this point allow me to deal with two or three matters that have been raised by our colleagues.
Hon Waters raised the fact that performance indicators are nonexistence in certain instances.

He raised the fact that Parliament does not have treasury office to advise the Speaker and that the Women’s Parliament continues to cost us as prices go up.

We all agree with that, hon Waters.

However, these matters are being addressed by the committee that is charged with the oversight of Parliament.

As such it is our responsibility to make sure that these are fixed up before the Speaker gets involved.
As the oversight committee member I can assure you we are engaged to that matter.

I agree with you, hon Waters, when you say the budget of Parliament needs to be relooked at, and I eluded to that.

I agree 100% with you.

Thank you very much, hon Steenhuisen.

I want to speak to South Africans rather than to speak to the EFF.

Let’s make it clear.


On 27 February, when this House resolved for the review of section 25 of the Constitution it UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 171 did not resolve that the Constitution will be changed so that the state will be the sole custodian.

That was not in the resolution.

The resolution said that we must review.

From where I come from the word review means a formal assessment of something with the intention of instituting change if necessary.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

To create an impression of this House concluding or resolving to change the Constitution is really not accurate.

Hon members, we must also agree with hon Shivambu and applaud the EFF for the list of its intended Bills that it wants to bring to Parliament.

But we must also say that that is the role of Parliament and the Members of Parliament, MPs.

So we should not applaud it.

It is like applauding a fish for swimming.

It’s our job.

[Laughter.]

Talk to the general about the fish.


Hon Steenhuisen, with all respect, sir, we fought as those that were oppressed.

We fought for the rights of all South Africans to be able to speak freely.

That was our sacrifice.

The #Shutup can never be something that revolutionaries will ever advocate for.

It does not settle with those of us who were in the trenches.
Rest assured, hon, Steenhuisen, it will UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 172 never come from us – it won’t come from us.

[Interjections.]

Yes!

Yes, if you keep quiet you learn.

Hon Steenhuisen, let me talk about your argument.

I agree with you that this Parliament must begin to debate about the future.

What is that future?

That future is the resolution around land reform.

Let’s have that debate and not suppress it as you guys want to.
Let’s debate about the ownership of land.

Let us debate about the issue of white privileges and black poverty.

[Applause.]

Let us debate it.

That is what I agree with you - let us do that.

Finally, hon Steenhuisen, I agree with you that this House’s responsibility is to pass legislation.

But I do think that it should not be the quantity of legislations that we should be worried about, but it should be the quality and the impact of the legislations.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

I would rather have legislation sit and not being implemented if it’s not going to improve the quality of lives.

That should be the measure of what we are doing.

Parliament as the legislative arm of our democratic state has a special role to play in achieving the South Africa for which UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 173 Mama Sisula, Madiba and so many others have sacrificed for.

I thank you.

The SPEAKER: Hey, today you are really being led by hon Steenhuisen.
He just said something and you didn’t hear him ... IsiZulu: Wathinta abafazi English: Hon members, thank you very much for what I believe was a constructive engagement on matters pertaining to Parliament.

Allow me to first respond to a few matters that were raised.

On the matter of legal drafting, I agree that this is a scarce skill that must be cultivated.

We actually have been discussing this over a long time.

I remember we did even in the third Parliament.


Clearly, there is an appetite on the part of hon members and that’s why I reported in my main address that 12 Private Member Bills were submitted by hon members from different parties and not necessarily passed already.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 174 On transitional arrangements, hon Dlakude, be assured that the administration has commenced with the legacy report under the leadership of the acting secretary to Parliament.
This will include the area of transitional arrangements for the sixth Parliament.

Hon Kilian, I agree that training for members should be ongoing, not only an activity confined to the point of the induction training at the start of a new Parliament.

The costs of subsistence allowances and transport for some staff ...
This is a matter that was raised, I think by the hon Walters and I believe that it has been dealt with by hon Smith because the money has been allocated to their respective cost centres instead of the Women’s Parliament.

By the time the report for the third quarter was finalised, this was not yet corrected which then caused the variance of R40 000 between the amounts reported during the third and fourth quarter.

As hon Smith has indicated that it is being dealt with by the Joint Standing Committee.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 175 Let me remind hon members about the formula for funding of the political parties, which is something I thought members would be aware of by now.

IsiZulu: Uthini uKwankwa.

English: I thought you would by now be familiar with how the issue of funding of political parties is dealt with.

Political parties are allocated funds in proportion to their representation in the House as provided for in the Constitution.
I think it is the hon Chief Whip that has repeated advised hon members that the thing for them to do is just to make sure that they come back in larger numbers.

With respect to the variance of money withheld from political parties, the correct amount withheld was only R199 000 and not R190 million.

There is a great difference between the two figures.

So, hon Walters, you have not quoted the correct amounts.

Well, maybe we should look at the document and correct it.
UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 176 With respect to the quarterly budget allocation, hon members, in this regard, please note that the responses on the changes to the budget allocations will be submitted to the Joint Standing Committee as promised, last week, by the acting secretary to Parliament.

We note the concern with regard to the Treasury advice office.

I am aware of the separation of powers between the Treasury office, advice office and the chief finance officer.
We continue to submit the request for this unfunded mandate and we will do so in this year’s adjustments budget Hon members, speaking at the first sitting of Parliament, as the first democratically elected President of a free South Africa on 24th May 1994, President Nelson Mandela stated: We place our vision of new constitutional order for South Africa on the table not as conquerors prescribing to the conquered.

We didn’t do that.

We are still not in the mood.


We speak as fellow citizens to heal the wounds of the past with the intent of constructing a new order based on justice for all.

[Applause.]

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 177 Those words marked the final death nail of an unjust political system based on race and the birth of a new constitutional order in South Africa.
One of the key outcomes of the liberation struggle was the country’s Constitution, which bears the very heavy imprint of the vision and the values which President Nelson Mandela, Mama Albertina Sisulu and others of their generation stood for.

Nelson Mandela understood the importance and significance of Parliament and therefore, had a profound respect for this Parliament as it has had for him.

This respect is personified in a conversation that former Speaker, Frene Ginwala, recalls with Madiba.
Just after she was elected as the Speaker, talked about what Madiba said, I quote: You must run Parliament in a way that carries on what we have done in negotiations, where we have tried to bring all parties on board.

We have tried to involve everybody so that we take the whole of South Africa into this new arrangement.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 178 Here we are quoting Frene Ginwala in conversations with the Mandela Foundation on 14 June 2008.
Both Madiba and Mama Sisulu were concerned with giving life to the Constitution and achieving its stated aims.

They both understood that Parliament is not only the vanguard of democracy but it is also primarily responsible for improving the lives of millions of our people.

It was in this spirit that we embarked on the process of defining and securing the features of our freedom – which are strong democratic institutions with the necessary checks and balances ... You know this cough.

Cheers.
Cheers.

... To ensure our democracy’s endurance and resilience even when faced with adversity and challenges.

We owe Tata Nelson Mandela and Mama Albertina Sisulu a great dept.

We should strive to emulate their visionary leadership, humility and above all, their belief of being selfless servants of our people.
May we and generations to come derive strength from them and act in the knowledge that there is a possibility and a UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 179 potential of a Mandela and a Sisulu in each of us.

[Interjections.]

That potential is there if we commit to never forget that we exist to serve the people but not to destroy one another.
Let us in our words and actions be it, in the chambers of Parliament, the executive and wherever we find ourselves, act with integrity and honour as Madiba and others, including Mama Winnie Madikizela Mandela did in service to our people at all times.

Let us work together to continue the work of Nelson Mandela and Mama Albertina Sisulu to fulfil the promise that: “The sun shall never set on so glorious a nation,” to quote from Tata Madiba.

I thank you.

IsiZulu: Intsha kukhulunyiwe ngayo Hlengwa.


Wena aweneliswa nje.

[Ihlombe.]

APPROPRIATION BILL (Consideration of Reports of Portfolio Committee) UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 180 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, we will now take orders 2-41 together as they appear on the Order Paper.

These are reports of Portfolio Committees on Budgets Votes as has been the practice over the years.
There will be no declaration of votes on these reports as they have already been debated during Mini-Plenary sessions, and parties will have the opportunity to make declarations during the Consideration of the Votes and Schedule on Friday, 25 May.

However, we will allow parties to indicate their objections to specific reports should they wish to do so.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thanks hon Deputy Speaker.

I move that the reports be adopted.

Thank you.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The motion is that the reports be adopted.

Are there any objections?

There is an objection, yes?

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: (Mr WALTERS): Deputy Speaker, please note the objections for the following reports from the DA: Vote 7 – Finance, Vote 19 – Defence and Military Veterans, Vote 28 – Labour, Vote 11 – Public Works, and finally Vote 34 – Trade and Industry.

Thank you.
Thank you.

UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 181 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.

We will do that.

Mr N M PAULSEN: Thank you Deputy Speaker.

Please note the objection of the EFF to all reports with the exception of Vote 5 – The Office of the Chief Justice and Administration.

Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.

We will note that.

Are there any other objections?

No objections, agreed to.


Hon members, before you leave I thought I should do this on behalf of the Presiding Officers.

I don’t have their mandate.

Former President Nelson Mandela in a meeting somewhere here told us that when he went to the United States, the big protector he was allocated to say to him: “Sir, you may not like my face, but when I say get down you better get down.” [Laughter.]
So Madiba looks at him and says this fellow; but he says I couldn’t do any other thing else I just hope nothing happens that will require me to be told to get down.

So when we sit in this chair and I ask you to please take your seat please do UNREIVSED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018 Page: 182 so.

You may not like our faces.

Please go home.

Thank you.

[Laughter.]

[Applause.]

The House adjourned at 18:39