Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1694869746727.pdf (Guyana)
31 Members T'1·esent LEOI8LA.TIVE COUKCIL, Uuo.lficial Notices 32 LEGISLArr1 VE COUNCIL.

).

era.ru.-Essequebo The Hou.

Jung Bahadur Singh, (l>cm­ 'l'uesrlay, ,?lat November, 1939.

The Hon.

Peer B,�cchu!

:I (Wostem Berbice).

'.l'he Council ruet at 11 a.m., pursuant the Act­ His Excellency Sm JouN WADDINGTON, to adjoumment, ing Governor, K.C.M.G., O.B.E., President, in the Chair.

The Hon.

E. M. ,ratcoLt (Noruiuated Unofficial Membe.r).

The Hon.

C. R. Jacob (North Western District).

The Hon.


J. W. Jackson (Nominated Unoflicial Member).

PRESENT.

The Hon.

the Coloni,�l �ecretary, Mr.

The Hon.

F .

.A.

Mackey (Nominated G.D. Owen, C.M .G.

Unoflicial Member).

The Hon.

the Attorney-GeneriLI Afr.

The Hon.

C. V. Wight (Westem Essequebo).

E.0.

Pretheroe, M.C.

MINUTES.

The minutes of the meeting of the the 15th Council held on Wednesday, November, 1939, as printed were confirmed.

and circulated, The Hon.


F. Dias, O.B.E., nofficial Member).

(Nominated The Hon.

J. S. Oash, Director of Agl'i• culture.

The Hon.

E. A. Luckhoo, O.B.E., (Eastern Berbir.e).

The Hon.

E.G.

Woolford, K.C., (New Amsterdam).

The Hon.

E. F. McDavid, M.B.E., olonial Trea.surer.

the Hon.

F. J. Seaford, N 01·th).

(Georgetown O.B.E., The Hon.

l\f.

B. G • .Austin, Membe1•}, Unofficial (Nominated O.B.E., PAPERS LAID.
TaE COLONIAL SECRETARY (Mr. G.D. Owen) laid on the table the follow ing documents :- Annual Report of the Auditor io the Direc­ tor of Colonial of the Colony of British 1938.

Audit and io ihe Government Guiana for the year Comparative Statement heads of the Colonial of expenditure under Estimates the separate for the years 1929 to 1938.

The Defence (Finance) 1939, published (Amendment) in the Official Gazette Regu­ lations of 18th November, 1939.
The Post Office Telegraph er-General made by the Postmast 94 of the Post and Telegraph ter 185, as amended by section and Telegraph proved by the Governol' of November, Ordinance, in Oouncil 1939.

1935, (No.

6) and ap­ 1939, Regulations, under section Ordinance, chap­ 4 of the Post on the lOtb The Hon.

,v .

.A.

D'Andrade, Comptrolle1· of Customs.

The Hon.

N. M. Maclennan, Dii·ecto1· of Medical Services.

'fhe Hon.

G. 0.

Case, Director of Public Works and Sea Defences.

The Hon.
The Hon.

L. G. Crease, Director of \ �ducation.

The Hon.

B. R. Woocl, Conservo.101· of I l<'orest8.

The Hon.

W. A. Macnie, Commissioner of Labour and Local Govcmment, (.Acting).

LOCAL APPLICANTS FOR CIVIL SERVICE 'rhe Hon.

J. Eleazar (Berbice River).

APPOINTMENTS.

UNOFFICIAL NOTICES.

'.l.

'he Hon.

J. Gonsalves, O.B.E., (George­ motion:- town South).

The Hon.

J, I.

De .Aguiar (Central ), l)emerara.


That, whereas, local men and women of Guiana have been gaining diplomas British from recognised Empir, iJl steadli)" institutions of the Britiah increasing numbers; Dr. SINGH gave notice of the following 33 Questions 21 NOVEMBER, 1939. a. D. (Amdt.

No.
No.

7) Bill, 1939 34 And, whereas, it is the desire of these men and women to make a livelihood by virtue of their qualifications: Be it Resolved,-That in all cases in which in this colony necessity cation be the cost?
(b)Has Government of providing ever considered such form of communi­ in tho said aroa and, if so, what would the in the Government appointments are being considered, men and women who hold qualifications recoginised and who are fully qualified be at all times given priority of local the applications of Empire, to hold such posts over all others.

institutions of the British Civil Service dition (c) How soon will this unsatisfactory (d)What are the views of tho Commissioner be remedied?
con­ of Police and Commissioner Mines on the matter?

of Lands and POTARO COURT.

Mr. GONSALVES gave notice of the INCREASED PAY FOR GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES.
Dr. SINGH gave notice of the following following questions :- question:- In view of the increased and still increasing consider will Government cost of living, of pay for employees including Departments and Harbours Prisons, Office, Police, Public Works Department, etc., Department, who are in receipt hundred of not more than one and fifty ponnds (£150) per annum?

the Hospital, Post Transport in all Government a raise 1.
(a) How many days has the Magistrate of the Essequebo from his headquarters take Court at Potaro?

Judicial District at Sud die when he has to to be away (b)How many cases-civil and criminal­ of the said Magistrate engaged the attention 1939 at Potaro Court for the period January, 1939?

Give the number for each to October, month and the nature of cases.

(c)Does Government consider the present of Court at Potaro arrangement satisfactory?

done in the matter?
done in the matter?

for the holding If not, what is proposed to be (d) Is the Warden of the Potaro Mining to take such not sufficiently capable District Court at Potaro?

TRAVELLING FOR MINING MAGISTRATES DISTRICTS, opinion is necessary 2.Is it Government's that a legally qualified person to take Court of the Colony?
of the Colony will Government that qualified in Mining as Magistrates con­ (a) at Potaro (b) in the Mining Districts opinion If it is Government's are necessary persons Districts sider the early appointment as Travelling persons Mining Districts Potaro?

Magistrates of such qualified for the said of the Colony including been made to 3 (a) Have representations of with regard to the shortage for the work required Government Magistrates in the various of the Colony?
districts to be done (b)Is Government satisfied that there are Magistrates sufficient of the Colony?

If not, how soon does Govern­ ment propose for the several to increase the number?

districts ORDER OF THE DAY.

ABORIGINAL INDIAN PROTECTION MENT) BILL, 1939.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I (AMEND­ an Ordinance Indian Protection move that "A Bill intituled to amend the Aboriginal Ordinance, minimum penalty nal Indians and female half-castes read the first time.
Chapter 262, by abolishing for harbouring Aborigi­ " be the Mr. DIAS seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read the first time.

Notice was given that at the next or meeting subsequent be moved that the Bill be read the second time.

(The Colonial Sec1·eta1·y).

of the Council it would ACTING MAGISTRATES.

4 (a) How many persons are at present filling acting appointments If there is more than one acting as Magistrates?

appointment, for how long will each such acting appoint­ ment r.ontinue?
(b)Is it Government's intention the appointment to appoint, of the or to recommend persons at present acting as Magistrates?

'f'EL F.ClRAPHIC COMMUNICATION WITH 'flIE POTARO.

5 (a) Is Government aware of the great caused by the absence inr,onvenience or telephonic grahic Garraway about 20 miles?

of tele­ between communication distapce of Stream and Potaro-11 CUSTOMS DUTIES (AMENDMENT No.

7) BILL, 1939.
7) BILL, 1939.

Mr. D'ANDRADE (Comptroller of further I beg to move that "A Bill • to amend 1935, with Customs): an Ordinance intituled the Customs Duties Ordinance, to the export duties on gold and respect bauxite and the import duties on petro­ be read a second time.

The lewn spirit" in part the object of this Bill is to provide additional quadrate in the forthcoming year.

This will be receipts revenue revenue to that will be 1·equired with expenditure 35 C. D. (Amdt.

No.
No.

7) Bill, 1939 LBGISLA.TIVB COUNCIL.

the export and gold n.nd the import done by means of incre11,5ing duties on bauxite duties on petroleum ject to a 1 ½ per cent.

ad v lorem export duty based on the f.o.b.

clause is substituted ( 1) (/) of clause 2 of this Bill the1·e :- therefor spirit.
Gold is sub­ and by sub­ value, thirty-five to which per centum of such excess, that Provided a duty equivdlent per to one and one-half centum of the value of each ounce of pure gold or, where the value exceeds dollars per ounce, a duty equivalent twenty-five ever duty shall be the greater: for the purpose smelted stances contain lesser by the Commissioner duty all raw or gold, concentrates, and sub­ samples containing gold shall be deemed to eighty per centum pure gold or such in writing of Lands and Mines; as may be allowed of assessing quantity to review the position at Mr. DE AGUIAR: I have no desire to to this Bill but I was measure, i>nter any opposition hoping to hear from the movel' that this and that it is is only a temporary proposed the end of next year.
As a result of his silence the on that point I am drawing attention to that phase of the matter : that by this Bill it is pro­ posed to impose an export duty on two products exported from the Colony.

of Government Mr. D'ANDRADE: It is only in I have men­ of the commodities l'espect tioned.

Agricultural and forest are still exempted from export tax.
products l!l of the Principal of " value " in imbsec- 1935, is also amen led by pro­ The definition tion (5) of section Ordinance, viding that in the case of pure gold " the value shall be deemed to be the average of the daily market p1·iccs London during the pel'iod immediately January, day of July or the first day of October, as the case may be, next preceding of exportation."
prior to thr first day of the first day of April, the first the date in of three monthi; The export duty on bauxite is the same on gold, namely as that at present payable l½ per cent.

ad valonm, f.o.b.

this source averaged ton.

The new rate provided 20 cents per ton.

on the calculated value.

In 1938 the revenue from about 8 cents per in the Bill is .Mt·.
DE AGUIAR: Be that as it may, ·my point is that we are all very alat·med that to see and I would like in the Bill providing on any item to oppose it, are many points I would when export duty is imposed I have no desire wlmtever.

although there like to mention at this stage.

It is an emergency measure a clause inserted the matter would be reviewed of next year, because will become one taxes.
We· have had two or three temporary measures during put before the Council the last two or three years and they are still with us, and if this is introduced now as a temporary I think it should measure be so stated in the Bill, so that members will have an opportwiity again from year to year.

at the end I fear that this tax of our permanent of reviewing it Clause 3 substitutes new rates of import preferential, The rates now payable are 20 per and 24 cents duty for those now payable on petroleum spirit.
cent.

British general tariff, with a.

30 cents surtax in each case, or a. total of 26 cents under the British under the general new rates are 31 cents British tial, and 36 cents genernl tariff, surtax.

Clause 4 provides payable on imports shall not apply to petroleum tariff, anrl 31.

2 cent� tariff.

The proposed preferen­ with no th,Lt the 1:mrt-0-x preferential spirit.

to be The revenue which i!


:I expecte-1 of the from these amen<lments it is estimated, in a. full amount, The export duty on to yield $17,000, received tariff will year to $101,000.

the gold is expected $44,000, and the export duty on bauxite $40,000.

import duty on petroleum move that the Bill be read a second time.
I anxiety from Govern­ Mr. ELEAZAR: What surpl'ises me is to raise money at of the very people in the com­ \Vhat is · that but enshwing Government's the expense munity who get no assistance ment to enable them to earn something mo1·e.

Instead they a.re being taxed more and mol'e all the time.

Gold is to pav has to a higher duty.

The gold-digger and when he pay more fol' everything, gets his gold he has to pay higher l'Oyalty.

him?
him?

I see Government effort at all to the ordinary payer, but every move is to increase burden on him.

I do not know whether the Bauxite Co. are going to give increased wages to their labourers.

pay more for every single item and their wages remain the same their position will be very serious.

doing is what any old woman in the street can do.

That is not statesmanship.

ma.king no tax­ the What Government is If people are to relieve 37 C. D. (Amdt.

No.

7) Bill, 1939 21 NovEMBER, 1'939.

.


for an taxes, more gold ?

to produce production to ask certain for Government.

T <.

:annot imagine it, I am dead against the duty, because the would compensate has seized the war as an but I am sorry to say that there is any proposal are never <.

:becked that the qua.ntities far from being satisfac­ of biiuxite by a competent they are always left out.

Government criticism in taxation I see many things that can be I had its fair share of taxation.
about it questions now than and if that Government intends to of this kiu<l and <.

:austic \Vhenever increase hecause taxed, but it seems to me that Govern­ are the persons ment's advisers who would and could well pay them, pay those taxes, therefore bearing occasion in this Council the replies were tory.
I am in no better position when I asked those questions, is the ,Lttitude a<lopt in m,Ltters may expect serious Government That is a matter entirely excuse for levying these additional I understand to improve produc­ and is doing nothing exported tion.

·wnere is Government's assistance officer of Government.

to the gold-digger exports going out of the Colony not being If he produced more gold Government checked.
need not increase ing the amounts-and ad<litional there are difficulties for the low rate of royalty exports-I think further ing.

Government taken by Government amounts which were given those men some figures That is not beyond the ability time ago.

Even that was not sufficient.

but i t appears t o m e that Government, I expect to Before this session certain things some proposal hear Government make to think if the baux.ite place the burden on the shoulders that looked after by Government can bear it.
There are some sti-ong would benefit a great deal more.

I do not shoulders their fair which are escaping want it to be understood shiLre while the wea.ker ones are being industry should burdened but I think Government given a million dollars necessary Government · but in these times of stress, £row that industry.

we cannot give a penny, and even in sup­ opportunity another port, of the poor Red Cross we have to again.
I do not think this taxation can desecrate be considered football hand I think it is taxation people Red Cross a few shillings.

not grumble to pay.

case of making the rich richer and the poor poorer.

steps ought to be to get the correct he is now pay­ has withdrawn was properly the Colony On the other should has more and more.

Trinidad If there are no means of check­ the Sabbath by playing not make legitimate to the Imperia,l in order to give the burdensome.
is concluded I do admit that in checking does not take the and cricket It is simply a industry bauxite the petty pro.fit, Sunday o f that I think the at·e not looked into.

I steps to get adequate revenue I hope I shall have to refer to this matter objection Mr. LUCKHOO: I think the Bill through as it stands ; I to it.
pointed out in your that of the session should be carried cannot see any reasonable Y ou1· Excellency Speech at the opening there will be a large deficit, must not 1·ely on any .fina.ncial assistance from the Imperial to face our burden now, and the only way we can do that is by increasing in 80me directions.

tions, This is one of the direc­ Government.

taxation and I do not think it is unreasonable.


and that we \\'e have Mr. JACOB: I am in sympathy with to meet necessary that we have to I was taken a bit by sur • I realize revenue this Bill be0ausc rnise additional expenditure.

prise, but I am not going to speak on all the items in this Bill.

I wish, however, to say something that while that industry has done quite a lot for the people of this Colony it is not about bauxite.

I feel it will certainly at a later d,Lte.


position Mr. D'A.l�DRADE: There is not much I can say because the hon.

member for I take Central Demerarn (Mr. De Aguiar), duties.

it, is in favour of the increased that He has only asked for an undertaking the matter will be reviewed I take it that when the J:inancial of the Colony has improved be brought up for re-considerntion.

'fhe hon.

member for Be1·bice Eleazar) sources additional revenue, any.
He laid very great strei:;s creased if he referred that that increased when the value of gold exceeds Therefore, to down below that figure the old rate of 1½ per cent.

$25 an oz.

when the price of gold goes the duty reverts export duty on gold, but I think says he knows several other from which Go,·crnment but he has not suggested to the Bill he would find duty only takes effect can obtain River (Mr. on the in­ With regard to the remarks about 39 C. D. (Amdt.

No.

7) Bul, 1939 LBOUU.Tr+'B CoU!rdIL.


Budget Debate 4U bauxite, if the hon.

member for N ortn Western District (Mr. Jacob) is not satis­ fied with all the details Government of the export duty I am afraid l cannot add anything supplied by as to the method of collection more.

at but I do want to review the position happen in 12 months' time, an opportunity the end of 12 months.
I know that several oppol'tunities to i;peak on the financial ally, but I am speaking particular duced as a sort of emergency The only way I will have an opportunity of reviewing this Ordinance a ulause in it providing shall he reviewed.

will be afforded me gener­ situation to this with regard which it.

intro­ is if there was that the matter form of taxation measure.

whether Mr. J.ACOB: I am wondering , hat is going to be the procedure in the future.

I am not in favour of that system.


A.s 11 matter of fact I should like to see so that we can really revenue increased something side in this Colony.

I do not think llw suggestion made is a very statesmanlike on tho productive one.

do The Council resumed.

Notice was given that at the next or imbsequent it would be moved that the Bill be read a third time aud pasbed.

(1llr.

meeting of the Council D'Andrade).

BUDGET DEBATE.


The Council resumed the debate on the following motion :- That this Council of Expenditure during the year ending 31st December, which have been laid on tho table.

approves to be defrayed of the Estimates from revenue 1940, l\fr.

Dr: AGUIAR: Before I proceed the session who, on behalf of at the opening of out· thanks to Your Excellency exposition of next year.
Your Excellency the affairs of the Colony with my remarks on the motion I wish to join with the hon.
member for Eastern Berbice (Mr. Luckhoo) the Coun�il, expre�sed for the lucid speech you delivered on the for the cur­ state of the Colony's finances rent year, and your reasonable in respect has administered for only a shot·t while, and in spite of a. number of difficulties You a.re leaving should be recorded ance of your duties you have displayed firmness with understanding, and if any you were found wiLh faults had to make there was a feeling of satisfac­ tion that you were guided by the firm con­ were taken in viction you have done it and it that those decit1ions that in the perform­ us very shortly, any decisions well.
Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read a second time.

The Council resolved itself into Com­ the Bill clause by mittee to consider clause.

Clause 1-Short title.

Mr. DE AGUIAR: I do not know the diffi­ insertion the Comptroller this is only an amending I am reluctant of a clause to provide whether I understood of I put Customs to say that the suggestion forward is accepted.

to move.the that the Bill shall remain in operation until the 31st of December, l!l-10.
I think it would be ditlicult that to put a clause of kind in a Customs Bill ; I realize culty although Bill.

I should be satisfied was reviewed satisfied will be reviewed tion of the Colony is improved.

statement propose to make any further that aspect of the matter because speak a.gain question, on the general shall reserve what I have to say on the financial when the financial posi­ That I do not remarks on I have to and I again next year.

I am not is a bit too general.


with the statement if the position tlmt Lhe matter situation until then.

I be­ if things to forget its existence 'l'uE COLO IAL SECRE'l'ARY: think this Colony would be extremely if in 12 months' time it was in a fortunate p�ition to repeal this law.

I do not think tiiere is any likelihood of Government ing allowed so improve that we are able to repeal it.

There are many ways in which the hon.


member may remind Government of what and I am sure Govern­ he has said to-day, the matter.

I do not ment would consider think there is any good in inserting the clause the hon.

member suggests.

Mr. DE AGUIAR: Nothing that I said wa.11 meant to convey that this tax should be repealed in 1940.

I am only asking that the matter should come up again for review.

I am not a prophet.

I am not to say what is going to in a. position U Jiotion 21 �OVBaBER, 1939.
-Budget Debate 42 I of all concerned.

but views I have heard quite freely by many people in walks of life.

\Ve will be sorry, the best interests would like to add that I am not expressing my own opinion, expressed various sir, when you a.re gone, and you will take with you our grnteful vice you have so ably rendered Colony during the time you administered the affairs of the Government.

day might not have arisen.


How many times in this Council have I not been expen­ asked when I criticised Government diture " What is the use of opposing the item when it is not our money we are I should like to say here and spending?"

now that on many occasions I sat down in despair at those views when they expressed were competent than I could.
who, in my opinion, better opinions thanks for the ser­ to the by persons to express were Dealing it is my now with the estimates quite definitely must be increased of the budget for 1940 is that Government.

\Ye have had that for a period of about eight in order to because we can no view that it should be stat.ad for the benefit of all concerned that the true position taxation meet expenditure, longer rely on grants-in-aid from the Imperial assistance years.
It commenced gether we have received Impel'ial very nearly amounting The actual figures taken from the report of the Colonial Treasurer $3,894,577.80.

was received as loans-in-aid $1,256,977.80 as grants-in-aid.

grateful, for that assistance, the time it did, when cial position at finan­ was at its lowest ebb.

in 1931, and alto­ from the in that form 11.


&um especially the Colony's and We are Government stinting and we have always been grateful for 1938 are Of that sum $2,637,600 to $+,000,000, There is one lesson this war should for this year, and we Government wal!

received independent by making full We now know from the as a from to the 'freasur\T \Ye also know cannot be teach us, and that is that we should trv to make ourselves use of our own resources.
that no grant-in-aid Imperial also know now that the expenditure this year will be met princip,tlly result of a windfall two large deceased estates.

that a.s this source of revenue depended upon it becomes necessary, especially tion in order to carry Government diture at its pt·esent that in spite of the opinions have had something about them, those - certainly mic structure.
our coats according cloth at that time we might lrnvt> been able to make ends meet, and in that wav stand on our own feet, and the necessitv propo�ed crease taxa.tion in the form of those who to say favourable weakened gmnts-in-aid econo­ not Btl'Bngthened-our If we were taught to cut to the length of our at this time, to increase taxa­ expen­ level.
It is my view to in to- of strip If, thel'B- Would it not improve becam,e there is no money Would it not provide a cer- in respect our budget .... Now what is the position 1940 ?

,v e ;n·e going to balance by reducing in my view in expenditure, places where we can least afford.

I sym­ pathize with Government when it says we can no longer build concrete roads.
\Ve have to suspend action in that <lirection to do it, but would it be reasonable to say that the continuation of that work 'would not be i:l the inLerest of the Colony generally?

our l'O!Lds?

tain amount of employmeut?

fore, that is one of the means we have to adopt in order to balance our budget for 1940 it seems to me that we will verv surely find ourselves even worse than we were in 1931.

I make that statement to-day is far in advance of what it was in 1931.
Our administrative increased departments vices introduced, would pause to iitL�' tlmt I would be the for the last person to oppose any service benefit of the people of the Colony, whether social, tion to be considered this be done ?

I must confess present offer very much a,;:,islancc.

for that must be ob,·ious.

costs ha,ve in various directions.

New new set·­ and in this respect I moment I am not in a position that at the lo have been created, or educational.
is how best could in a position, The reasons perhap·s medical The ques- because our expenditure that the rxisting Your Excellency Before I pass on to some of those will no doubt to make a passing remark on side of the budget.

I think it fonns of we are beca.usc reasons, permit me the revenue must be admitted taxation unable to find any new avenues It mm,t be admitted many of those forms of Lf�xation and burdensome.

viow by the report of tl1e Taxation mittee.


As a. mu.ttcr of fa.ct the Taxation at this :stage that al'e he.wy I i11 tha.t Com­ must he increased I a.111 supporte of taxation.

43 Motion LEGIBLATIVB COUNCIL -Budget Dllbate 44 stated in their report that the for the diamond industry.
forms of taxation Committee present think in one instance relief long ago this Council in accordance made by the Committee, ago we re-imposed form on that particular are high, and I they suggested some Not very afforded llrn,t relief taxation in another industry.
with the recommendation but a short while of and I \Vhat I am most concerned about is the side of the question, a fuller again as time is not u.lforcled opportunity bu, in some cases some of were suggested, Commissioners was made when visited the position Nevertheless expenditure regret that, working :i.s we do in this Council, hon.

members to make a complete and of Government thorough examination expenditure .
1 think it will be admitted that the last thorough Pxamination Government expenditure the Financial Colonv.

First of all I should sav that certain economies which were adopted, expenditure was increased went on and as the financial the Colony improved.

be agreed that since that time a complete examination of Government has not been made.

The reason for that refcned to the is clear.

I h,we already is afforded hon.

fact that no opportunity members to make this txamination.
as we do at sessions through the estimates, passing after another, ing answers examination I know it will be said that the Council is not allowed to initiate know that in 99 cases out o·f 100 every that is put before this item of expenditUL·e Council been submitted has previously the Secretary to of State for approvitl.

one item and recC>iv­ asking questions of it will of Government of this kind, going money votes.

I Sitting expenditure expenditure.


Let us examine that phase of the matter of a certain of State and approved decides on sum of money is put forward to the it is then for a moment.

If Government the expenditure and the proposal Sec1·etary put before this Council for itpprornl.

to expect that \Vould it be reasonable whatever hon.

members might put forward to the scheme, that p1·0- posal would not go through ?
I have sat here day after day brought before told had been submitted by the Secretary obtained of State.

Having the JDatter was at we were the Council which and seen mea.,ures to and approved that approval opposition I of State's authority to make any criti­ come, when some other an end so far as we were concerned.
have no desire whatever cism of the Secretary to deal with those matte1·s, but what I do desirl' to stnte is that the time must if it has not yet arrived, before such system should be introduced measu1·es are dealt with in that form.

The reason I make that firm statement is because there is another side of the pic­ turn.

Let us take the case of this Council approving ously 1mbmitted It has happened happen again.

of ,tn item that was not previ­ to the Secretary of State.
here before and it will but come up head.

Be­ of State for sum of money is involved Let us assume that those items items in the esti­ to which I will But what do we find in such a is approached estimates there should be a surplus There are several mates before us to-day, refer later on, which have not yet been aub­ mitted to the Secretary approval.

will be approved by this Council, to the Secre­ when they are referred of them.

tary •of State he disapproves What will be the position ?
I should like Government to answer that question in itR reply to this debate.

I know the answer will be that the money would not be spent under that particular fore I make that remark I should add that it must whatever be understood tlmt th�t sum having been in the budget for the period, included and assuming tluit revenue to expectation, available.

caRe?
caRe?

This Council tion excesses is how the tmrplus ment could 1Lt the Pnrl of the period inform the Council t.'Lry of , t1.1.te's amounting to $100 01· $200 there had been tL saving to that extent, and that the amount would be carried I should never have made any remark on the subject, but my experience tlrnt there being a sum of money available as a 1·esult approval heads arise, surplus immediately that at the door of these grants-in-aid.
we did not have grants-in-aid upon several never have appeared \Ve have got those items with us, and now that the shoe pinches very serious and what should have been a disappears.

If to fall back items on our budget would to sanc­ heads, and that If Govern­ of the Secreta1·y of items, excesses of the Secre­ of items in the first instance.

effort to tighten disappears.


disapproval that as a result we have to make a under various under various of State's dis­ our belts in has been I lay all is not, in my opinion, sufficient forward, perhaps 45 Motion 21 NOVEMBER, 1939.

-Rndget Debate 46 assistance a i;pecial Labour Depal'tment as from that of Local Government.
If of Local Gov­ that view such as the Committee if the separa­ money to carry on to investigate bad preparation, of L1,bour and Local Govern­ satisfied without department Why is it order to find sufficient the Government.

had any good intentions to labour it should have It seems to me that some better svstem in order to· meet an even now it will be found that can bo made with amalgamation of Lands and Mines.
I when it was a very poor solution proposal greater the Department consider to amalgamate it was decided with Labour.

I express ernment in order that it might be put on record.

I do not think a Department Department ment would ever work satisfactorily.

Government lending created distinct I have in mind the rising cost of that and I am perfectly Department, that a separation can be effected any increased cost.

As a matter of fact I should not be surprised in a saving.
Altogether tion resulted has become so top-heavy that Department with the number of duties the officials that one of these days it have to perform, than the important will become even more and the result offices in this building, of it to all will be that the services rendered the community poor.

will be exceedingly You cannot mix labour affair!!

with local government.

such as I have just made.

I am that there ought to be to suggest and into all items of expenditure of money.
I know that some it absurd to oppose the of public money, but as repre­ of the people it is our solemn ought to be introduced criticisms reluctant a permanent enquire Goverrunent people consider expenditure sentatives duty to see that public money is properly spent.

Would it not be a good thing for It would avoid a number of Government?

It might save some of the criticisms.

scandal we hear of every now and then.

Why is it that any estimate that is put forward by a Government cannot be taken as accurate?
that in 99 cases out of 100 an estimate by a Goverrunent department is submitterl Is it only the result of bad exceeded?

unskilled drafting, work­ I answer all men or bad administration?

those questions with one word "No."

Not always.

Very often the fault lies deeper than that, and the only means this Government can adopt is to introduce system such as the one I have suggested.

It is only a suggestion improved D!

'partments should be run on commercial several Government lines.
That may be one means, but we until we have spoken of it in this Council are tired.

If that is unfavournble to Gov­ ernmf'nt then there is the alternative �uggestion mittee.

Such a Committee feel certain for a reduction to Government It must be heavy cost of administration.
admitted thiLt there amount of overlapping in Government departments, but even when a clear case of overlapping is brought to the notice of Government with a view to amtLlgamation, never reason or anothe1· the amalgamation here takes place.

It has been suggested time and again that the amalgamation of the Forest Department ment of Lands and Mines might result in a saving.
An opportunity presents &gain for such an amalgamation, and I feel is given to the sure th11,t if consideration it is their view that Government on a wilful waste of public reference ,ve have been spending money before and, of course, there was nothing more to be said about it, but the time has now come when all the money we are going payers of this Colony.

The time has come when elected members of this Council in particular whenever has embarked money.
I have made passing the items which have not yet received approval of the Secretarv more important $108,744.

haps all of them, but I ask the question again : if the Secretary approve of those items, or the expenditure of the money, will Government undertaking would not be spent, for expenditm·e for instance expenditure tenance of roads?
I shudder instead of that the money would be used to make up excesses depart­ ments, or perhaps schemes although which are not yet completed, ha11 the money voted for those schel'.llell or would be earmarked which has been curtailed oive an ° that this large sum of to the of State.
The in Government to complete must voice their disapproval on the main� to think that to spend will belong I know it is the general of the tLppointment of those items I find total of the important would put forward other people's with the Depart­ of State rlof's not I may support proposals is a certain many and per­ which can be to the tax­ desire that and I should, itself for some money upon.

of the of a Com­ of a Jlotion LKGJBLA1'lVB COUNCIL.

- Budget Debate 48 I think I am right should be paid.
I am almost been spent.

I refer, for instance, already to the Best Hospital.

in saying that most, if not all of the money provided for that purpose has already been spent, and it is not yet completed.

That is one of the weak links in the chain.

Those are the things to which greater attention t.empted to suggest, upon all I have said, that those items which have not of yet been appt·oved State should be deferred are known.
Unless I receive ance from Government--and know just how far Government assurance finally approve consider comment.

by the Secretary until his views some assur­ I do not can give an of Stat.e will we might of them-perhaps those items without further that the Secretary following In none of my speeches during a debate I satisfied on this question, to refet· because will be can be effect.ed.

that we cannot do this table.


I am also of this kind have I ever attempted to items on the estimate in detail, I know that full oppot·tunity afforded me when those items are reached.
and I feel very strongly I do hope that the suggestions I have put forward will receive serious because now that the time has come when we have to pay our way it is our duty to see where economies am perfectly that properly around satisfied-and Colonial mittee we could hardly make much head­ way for various will not accept the suggestion many times for more efficient control, whether administrative Departments various to stop the criticisms we hear of from time to time.
I have no desire to prolong this debate.

I have spoken in genl'ral terms, and I hope that what I have said will receive consideration .nnd srrious or advisory, of the we will never be able and the scandals reasons.

If Government Sect·etarv-that in this I join issue with the it dPserves.

put forward the careful in Select Com­ ::ifr.

LUCKHOO: Sir, I wish to take this opportunity to endorse the remarks made bv the hon.
member for Central Demera;a (Mr. De Aguiar) in regard to to the eminent »et·vice you have rendered zeal in this Colony.

Your Excellency's that direction is well known, and the com­ munity feels that it owes a great debt of gratiturll' for the great tact and zeal you have shown in many directions.
to You1· Excel- With reference to you, sit·, energy, Wl' for the munificent assistuuce from the Mother Country Address at the opening of the I should like to sav that we acknow­ the financial duty are to see that economies We dependence lency's session ledge gratefully have received during the period of stt·ess and and strain, it iti only right that we should place on record our gratitude liberality this with which she has treated Colony.
Now that we have to provide all the money required to meet our expendi­ tw·e I take it that it is the imperative of Government effected in every possible direction.

cannot now place any excessive on the Imperial help, and therefore the firm determination burden and responsibility.

when the Empire is at war it behoves every individual determination to carry out his obligations If Your Excellency as a citizen.
unable to paint a very attractive in your Address it was because you had not the material with which to do so.

Your Excellency's cise and unadorned.

we must carry on with to shoulder our At this time was picture to do his very best with a speech was clear, pre­ for financial Government them with facilities of Government agricul­ of people on the earnest Committee in these more, particularly by a very many months ago.
It is a which should receive consideration to the settlement With regard to Government's tural policy I !>hould like to draw the of the Council's attention to the report Land Settlement which was issued not document and anxious with respect the land, and providing for producing times.
That report was submitted consisting Committee of Labour and Local Government (Con­ vener), of Public Works, the Commissioner ernment Medical Officer of Health, Deputy Director it a very important question Government's consideration various points set out in that report.

There is a statement I think can bear repetition graph 60 of the report states of Agriculture.

contribution and I invite here.


Para­ :- of land settlement, of Lands and Mines, the Gov­ in that report which the Director I consider to the serious and the of the of the Commissioner 60.Owing to the limited time at our disposal has been unable to do mor� the principles the Committee than to outline men�.
But we feel t�at under proper and if �he co-operation ments ts assured, method of bringing land settlement of the technical Depart­ is the best of land settle­ about thfl economical, guidance, consideration, 49 Motion 21 NOVEMBER, 1939.

-Budget Debate 50 intellectual rural population.

and social advancement of ihe hope that whatever forward Government and co-operation.

measure is brought will lend its support with these schemes to the repatriation surveys of the Colony.
obligation There is another u1 connection point I would like to of the coastlands Your Excellency any land settlement is under a those people many times in and I am well aware of in this Colony to their Government to provide anxiety over this very press­ I know that steps have been which ·It is well that should know that the matter is and has probably heard from time to time cries for drainage and irrigation They have been repeated this Council, Government's ing question.
taken to mitke engineering must be made before scheme can be adopted.

the public receivi I hope that early steps will be taken to carry out in some form some of the 1·ecom­ mendations importance of this coUlltry emphasized.

have always displayed the farmers qualities oourage tion with which adversity combated.

in this report.

The to the prosperity cannot be too frequently conditions those and resolu­ mention and that is with regard of East Indians home countn·.
definite with return ment evolve attracti\-e returning to remain in the Colony under certain special profitable ernment?

Government kind, and the1·e has been laid out for the purpose ing those people passages.

that part of the Colony surely a success have quoted the Committee states:- conditions?

investment I admit that in yea.rs past of that is now a. settlement which of provid­ to those people to India in order to induce them \\'hy can't Govern­ passages.
,L scheme which would prove contained of agdculture it be a Wouldn't on the part of Gov­ in other parts.

In the report I If that scheme is a success with land in lieu of back of Government, ng the attention In spite of adverse of fortitude, attempted a measure it should be can only be in who contemplate Your Excellency referred in your speech 39.Under Section 193 of the Immigration cultivation should be given special facilities entitled The Committee grants be made ... 3-acre rights:- lot and house lot.
removed not far away cultivation To an immigrant to replace and settled Chapter 208, Government may to entitled to India in lieu of such right, that immigrants lot.

House Jot to bP paid for.

and wife ... 3-acre it will be carried made to cultivate more those which a.re of return passage immigrant land in settlements.

that the following I know as a fact that in the County of To an immigrantand wife with one or more children and will in that residing I refer to what is k"llown scheme.
It is well to the endeavours Ordinance, make a grant of land to an immigrant food products a return passage now being imported.

and it is considered on a certain estate to repatriation I da1·esa.y Berbice-and to acquire recommends parts of the Colony-steps out in othe1· in lie.u are now being taken to lmve the resident To a single labourers The from the scene of their activities.
lands have been laid out at their own t>xpense, the matter has been fully gone into and I hope that at an early date the scheme will be put into execution production result in increased locality, and benefit to the people in the vicinity.
as the Bath settlement that the public should know of it and should assist Government possible a success ing lands and rice lands set a.side for ag1·icultural possible that they may become Encouragement not be confined ticular planters Berbice to settle carry on their 01·dinary estates allotments ground provisions.

are also provided.

able varies from estate to estate, no land is allotted estates them in every way in order to make the scheme will be given g1·a.z­ .
The people parts of the County of are making it attractive down in order that they may the management their resident for the cultivation development, way help will be given them so of that sort I hope will to the people County.

I know that the sugar Facilities The quantity 41.At present provide a happy peasantry.
Then in paragraph 55.The survey of the Corentyne of these grants of land should be a charge on the Immigration of the Fund for tho repatriation of the immigrants of land avail­ and on some to labourers.

of the sugar labourers with of rice and ... Two 3-acre culti­ vation lots and a 55 of the report vocation, and in every It is considered in other for people ret completed in that par­ selected.

for grazing expenses house lot.


Coast is not It says:- cattle find:- and I we that the cost to Government and the CommiHee is therefore Fund to the limit of the liability The report also speaks of allotments.

M Jloeion LBOtaLATITS Conan..

Failing village estate·s districts.

to make definite but the Committee back boundaries recommenda­ that, on be suggests of the survey, adjoining and reconditioned and added to the this, the ques­ the areas between the and The areas, be considered.
on should be sold to villagHs terms as those recommended not in a position tions, completion purchased present tion of empoldering present the Band Reef should when drained, similar settlement village the new area.

Tho new lands will then be rated for mainten­ ance by the Local Authority responsible for land areas, and the boundaries of the to include for the administration.

of these villages districts who would be altered is kept within to see that expenditure reasonable boundt1.
The present demands that Government keeping its eyes open at the cautiously, same time for opportunities which may in present themselves every possible direction.

for development should proceed situation There are certain votes with respect to services and social which will o.nd I my full suppo1·t, the medical receive certainly trust Your Excellency points I have mentioned, be borne in mind by Government which will take place.
the discussions will go into the and that they will during on bv lmppy and because why can't Gover.

;­ that point because by encouraging emphasis I feel that on the land and giving them evet·y to make themselves Plus.

Albion, Port Mourant I wish to lay p11rticular those recommen<lations, Government would bc> taking a step in the right direction people to settle opportunity prosperous.

and Skeldon are doing their very best.


They have their own pumping plants which irrigate the rice lands as well as the provi­ sion lan<ls.

If that can be achieved sugar estate proprietors ment make some attempt in that direction?

I emphasise tions have been made to me that Govern­ ment has done nothing of this burden.
Your Excellency will in the next receive probably few <la.vs from farme1·s areas on the Coientyne for a. asking Government loan to enable them to take in a large acreage of land for rice cultivation.

grounds for such they can urge reasonable a.loan I think Your Excellency sympathetically grant their reque1;t. in the coastal tion of improved conditions of Your areas is one which is deserving Excellency's sympathetic support.
At u.ny ru.te the ques­ a deputation representa­ in certain to relieve consider the people their case and will If With regard to the ,mggestion that a should g_o into Uw lhmncial Committee matters of Government, exist>s such a.

Committee I undershllld in Trinkl11<l.


that I are • take it that members of this Council the Heads of Depar� to approach from the Head of a entitled ments and get any information they want on any point, and if there is any diliiculty in getting informa.tion they can approach Department Secretary.
I do not know whether that would help to expedite the business Council, of the Council opportunity of debating I hope Government will take every ca.re but in any case I think members have the fullest any item on the estimates.

the Colonial of the Mr. ELEAZAR: I am not sure whether of the affairs them, because I intend on this in the difficult over this Council, a very important to the satisfaction the hon.

member who has just taken his scat has entered into a conspiracy with anyone to curtail my speech.
If so I shall disappoint occasion, time being to be very brief in what I have to factor, say, leaving a good deal of what I have to Ray to be said when dealing with the pa1·­ items.

But this being the last ticular will on which Your Excellency occasion preside I cannot allow the occasion to pass without expressing my own view, and the views of the entire with respect community, felt with the administration of the country during your short regime here.

(" Hear, hear ").
(" Hear, hear ").

Your Excellency's administration the Colony has met with almost immesur able success.

munity is exceedingly you have done so far, notwithstanding fact that it has been your misfortune introduce of legislation Council I refer to the Petroleum of that I cannot help feeling try as a whole is abundantly the brilliance administration try.

The reputation that it has been the graveyard brilliant where men who may have been considered very able have failed.
When that is said I think I have said all that might be said of Your Excellency.

Bill, but in spite that the coun­ with pleased � the of your achievements of the affairs of the coun­ with what the to one of the most vicious pieces since the 1928 Order in Council.

but you have succeeded this that has ever disgraced At any rate the whole com of this count1·y situation satisfied career, of many a is of It cannot be gainsaid that the adminis­ of this country is overburdened.
tration The cQSt of administration _ is far too high ;fJ Motion 19'3\J.

21 NovEllIBElt, -Budget Debcite M with Berbice 1 may have to you, sir, but to I do not disagree to him, and he would and still more so at a period when he says that Govern­ we The late had a way of to sub­ Heads of Departments al any period, such as thii;.

Any criticism!!

made had no reference the policy which you did not adumbrate, which you found a,nd administered such eminent success.

with the hon.
with the hon.

member for Eastern (Mr. Luckhoo) ment must get money and therefore taxation.

must increase My view is that must get money but Govern­ Government ment must assist production.

Sir Gordon Guggisberg requesting mit their estimates go through them and request them down by say $10,000.

worked, oJficers their salaries, the cuts were restored.

to tax the necessaries ernment is curtailing scheme.
Nearly every well on the Coren­ tyne has gone out of commission, and in the case of those which are still flowing you have to wait for an hour to iret a bucket of water.

Some means should be found whereby the water can be pumped.

vVater is one of the greatest life, yet its supply is being curtailed by Government.

and it did not kill the soil.


Some of had to give up a small portion came It is unnecessarv of life because Gov­ the pure water supply them to cut That policy but when better times necessities of help from creating ·what cim nu Exche11uer.

now in comparison This Gove1·nment a new as if labour Government do in such cir­ I admit, ancl I venture to that it should tiri;t of all reduce removed such a road as the one actually to .Mara-25 miles­ fropi New Amsterdam From the lay­ from iti.

road programme.
road programme.

is man's point of view it seems that so little with the cost if required the should ha,·e to renovate Government road.

A ,·ery sro,\ll amount now will make or four vears to the road useful for thrl'e WC' are in th� throes come.

Your Excellency, the fact, that as a of war and we appreciate to stand ou our own we lut,·t• consequence legs and cannot expect finauci,LI the Imperial enlightened cumstances?

propound, some of its best and most nccessMy estab­ lishmeuts.
has not clone that, but is now actually post, an officer to manage labour, needs any management this.

Supposing needed it before tho war, do we require now an innovation think so.

I believe fo1· before the outbreak estimated but since the war where is the necessity to have this new and expensive An enlightened reduced its votes and would have endea­ every penny on productive voured to utilize more.

\Vhen money works so us to produce is necessary, to the hon.
Member according £or Eastern Berbice (Mr. Luckhoo), you put on more taxes.

Any old woman in the street \\That is required to produce more.

How is Government going Lo produce more ?-Government is going to tax the producer withdrnw from him the means whe1·eby can produce more.

I say, sir, that is not good policy.

of that kind ?

I do not these projects were of war, more aud he it was thought that it at !Lil at a time like would lmve Government, a little post·?
At this stage the Council adjourned for until 2 p.m. the luncheon recess 2 p.m.- :Mr. ELEAZAR: At the adjournment I of what one to curta,il I in it especially to point out to Govern­ which it has adopted the work on pure witter has considered out then, tlmL Government a necessary work Coast where neady was endeavouring ment that Uie policy, for some time, is the reverse should expect in real statesmanship.
was pointing order to reduce expenses advisable supply-such on the Corentyne or every well is either out of commission is nearly so.

Take another instance : the work on strip rnacls, a real necessity in Road-building is to cea,se.

road-building, has been swallowing sands of dollars and with the advent of tremendous lorries matters were m,tde t>ver so much worse.
The 11trip roads promised relief in that direction, finds it necessary Government to curtail in 0t·der to so.ve money has of thou­ all along, motor but Government that work.

of this cow1tl'y up hundreds to givo J spe,Lk in r<'specl of the gold indusLry.

send out to Government to parties of the It is well known Urnt lhe biteklionc of LhiH Colony is the pork­ gold industry He hai; been ti�e pioneer in knocker.

finding areas, but he cannot now affonl to go further afield imd break new ground.
I suggested prospecting as when the shout ii, girnn men will fiook there and in that way more gold will be Govemmcnt ha1:1 not done thitt produced.

a number of but instead ha1:1 appointed geologists we are doing cannot benefit We.

are not prospoctors.

the small man.

You must get who have openly said: "v\'hat to break new ground, can do that, but is that st!Lt,esmauship?

in such ci1·cumstances is fio Jlolion LaouLA.Tlff CoUllOlL.
-Budget Debate 51> As I have of the facts except what he The Secretary of which is pre.ailing.

8tat,e is not going to oppose this Govern­ ment on a point of policy.

He is without any knowledge gleans from someone's writings.
said, now that we are.given an oppo1·tunity and we are going to balance our budget­ though we have been doing that all the time and up to 1928 when it was said that we could not do it and those who were going to take it over would do it, but it though ii kind of has not been done since, legerdemain attempt was made two or three yeiirs ago but it, was not real-I hope that when we have done it we will hear no of i:!tate and his more about the Secretat·v satellites telling us how to spend our monev.
We will be masters of our own house, and there can be no excuse then for Imperial control.

stimulate is the plough­ to reduce expen­ way and in every case at and send them out."

is not to make people go parties is prepared finds it necessary s1ilal'ies, is not doing a single to show its inten­ pL'oduction, and yet to create new and at the same prospecting Government diture in another the expense of the taxpayel'.

The policy of Govel'nment to the field.


In every other country in the world the fil'st creditor man.

Government thing in these estim1ites tion to Govel'nment posts, increase time punish the man ·who is really the piper.

I do not know what Govern­ ment or anybody would think of a mel'­ chant who, on finding bad way, sets about to take on addil,ional to increase the clerks at higher i,;alaries, salaries of those akeady engaged, to in­ crease his prices and to reduce his stock.
What is he doing but courting Government another way, buL eannot eourt disaster because the milch eow is thet·e-the ble tax.payer.

Your Excellency that policy; must say you have managed exceedingly well to carry through without coming about in your regime.

I cannot stand for that.

i;; doing the same thing in is not responsible you came and met it, and I is in a his business disaster.

the worst paying hum­ for The hon.

Compt1·oller of Customs that hon.


Members had objected of I know as proposed and the money their business.

that I hope this is the on our own legs ttnd we do not want miles away.

It 01· the rents Ex.cheque1·, ?

No one is there to see that, They are the to look around and tell Govern­ standing our O\\ n monies, from .J.,000 remarked to the taxation but rlid not suggest what should be taxed.

l am not here Lo teach highly paid Government Officials persons ment what to do.
If I am asked, however, to tell them I would not hesitate.

of acres of Ct·own of thousands hundi·eds for years by people Lands are occupied carrying and paying a nomi­ on industries nal rent.

Why cannot they be made to buy the land outright put in the Government be increased because the people, these points, benefit.

here Lo give an example of my allegation I can always give it.

Government being well served.


,vhen a certain Department reply is : "This thing cannot be done;" ii, askecl to try it ai; eventmilly Government, an experiment, and the next ye,Lr after the expenditure of mueh monev we arn told that the experiment save money.

That poliey has heen going on too long and should cease, especially these times of stress when we at·e faced with a calamity.

touch us in the same wiiy WM', although our men went to the F1·ont and made 1:mcrifiees.
mourni.ng Thet·e is so much in respect of these estimates as to what the Secretary State will say and what he will approve and not approve, last time I will hear that.

After we luwe been spending any dictation is true that we have got grants-in-aid G ovemment, the Imperial told how to spend the money, upon whom to spend it, and how to squander it.

I h1we heard it said in respect of items placed on the E�timates did not know what the 8ecretary for the Perhaps, wrong impression but I do not think so.
When in this Council Government reluctantly accepts anything public opinion, right," time after one hears that the Secretat·y State doeR not approve of it.

My view is, it was first not approved then wont from I submit it is a &ystem of obsoura.ntism thal has been forced upon it by G�vernment a.nd then all of a sudden a short I have got the about the whole Colonies Your Excellency, of State would say about them.
This very day we have families from but we were the loss of !,heir loved onos as Lhe is told to do so and so, the Lhis side to the other side.

in the last war some of The 1914 W 11r did not that Government must ceasp o,O as to says: "All as the present Therefore this side, and thing, is not in of when I am challenged they refuse to see it.

IL is because who advise Government on to are the people who at·e 57 Nc,tion n NoVBIIBBB, 1939.
-Budget Debate 58 • as the mag­ ·while which , fighting on pt·omo- home to the conflict.

instance ii the people Government equit1ible he i,mow drawing on pl'Omotion $57 .60 per month, • I do not know nn one particulat· in New Amsterdam he � in luxury continues This is not a form of Govern­ the cost of the poor man's that each man must consider to the humble individual, sum of $56 per month.
What kind ... to improve and increase produc­ is taxed, and that will uot make any Take the Head Bailiff who is stationed ... now.

llow can anybody find to justify and else becomes more and which is not taxed in ,io far as the His food, his Bailiff 1Lrnl, though he has ttt least 1:1ix as much work to do as when he wai, in ., at his post as it soldier the enemy, Government still finds to t_ax the poor man's rice in said in a general.

way.

I intend to point out to Government which I will give now.
direct result of the present that is going on, what is this G overnmeut's policy?

Instead of bringing community himself against in Georgetown to-day.

He was Head it necessary Bailiff in New Amsterdam when I went his pot, Government still finds it necessary He is one of the ablest men in his thet·e.

to increase own line in the Government Service.

If sugar.
If sugar.

.Although tho producer does not, he had remained get a cent more fo1· it-so I am tol<l by would have heen getting sugar producer·s-yet the people who are but he came to Georgetown retailing sugar charge 1t cent, more for llmLtl evPry pound 1,hat is soltl to the community, timl's and with Government's permission New Amsterdam, consPnt.

Everything nificent expensive of policy is that?

Ilow can that be the man who is living honest?

Here is a man leavin� untouched.


tion a post with a �ahiry of $57.60 to take ment that people can tolerate, ou more re�potu;ibilit .v for $56 per month are to be pressed all the time with high when his immediate predecessor got $90 prices for l'verything.

per month on an incremental i;cale, article he hitd expeci,ed to get.

Th,it is what is poor man i,, concerned.

happening clothing, his ove1·ything an)rt,hiug is bec,tuse that kind?

It is not the first time such attempt has occurred.

must have tion.
must have tion.

When Government remembered, Government Ollicials left a post iLt $+0 per month on promotion not i;ay how to do it I" Let Government and got $26 pe1· month in his new post, take awav the $30,000 which it is pro­ aud you generously at once.

posed to· use for the cul'ing The !lame t,hing It may be a good idea and when it was adum­ hope, Your Excellency brated the war was not on.

To-chw you have done on the previous occasion.


thousands of dollars duce as quickly as possible, crabwood to sell to Government ments.

Government out expei-iments policy Government blind policy, nowhere except to increase increase taxation.

There is a limit even to that.

Them is such a thing as the last straw, and I do not know how much fur­ ther Government intends to go if the war continues.

The war will not be finished in a year's time-the hon.
Member on my riaht says w�r ending next year, hope-and we all have to look fot·ward times of greater stress than now.

A part from the mourning which some of our fellow-colonists as the result of the war, there why this Colony should not ing.
When we come to the S('l'Pnil in the Estimates I intend to drnw Govern­ ment's attention to more of wlmt I have Those are the ways in which I say Government is not well served, in bringing in mea1mre� but in not supplyi11g measures Those Depa1·t­ ments that are spending large sums of monev should assist Government in times like these and show how econom,· can be effected without doing violence· and fail-play, but tlwy ,ire not doing that.
I wish to repeat again that Youi· Excel-• lency has earned the highest possible congratulations of tlw whole community, and to say without fear of contradiction that I know of no instance people have showered -Excellency Excellency deserved.

to hold the scale of justice Aven hand in this Colony.

cannot afford to trv now, and yet that is tl{e is pursuing.
a policy that can cany us hP is looking forward to the but that is only a to of retrenchmcn"t with to-day and, I will put it right as You have always endeavoured to-day, is no reason not to cure Depart­ on which I have the privilegl' where the as Your be self-support it was discovered for production.

thiuk this is the fifth Your Excellencv Mr. J .ACO B : I lmd it reversed is concerned !ms received.

are 1mffering of crabwood.


tell you: "You do Uo,•ernmcnt 1ire required is told that, is existing and further encomiums it is richly As far as Your to justice � occasion "that a man with a verv ,i thing of not onlv heatls That is a to pro­ und • ◄ �9 Molfon LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, -Buclget Debate 60 I want to would make a recom­ in that respect.

Jamaica has adopted.


Royal Commission mendation refer to the attitude I want to appeal to the Elected and Nomi­ nated Members of this Council that we sh,mlcl make a move in that direction.

\Ve should agree here among ourselves that the Constitution should be changed.

A Committee should go into the matter.

I do not know if it is necessary motion here, and I do not know what would be the fate of such a motion, but I think we should endeavour put the a.lfairs footing.
Having said that, I want to refer to one 01· two items appearing on the Estim,Ltes.

to do somethinet of the Colony on a better to move a to nearly l 00 haye fairly very closely.

by the previous to co-operate all that has been said con­ in having you ,it this particular honour to speak: on a Budget Statement, !Llld I find myself agreeing per cent.

with what I had said in this I have Council on the first occasion.
endeavoured with Govern­ ment, and at this stage I do want to say that I endorse cerning Your Excellency hon.

Members who have spoken. "'

e are fortunate time, and I am glad that matters worked smoothly.

There is a lot to be said on the Budget Statement but I find itself, myself at a great disadvantage, having arrived in the Colony just four days aio and not having had time to go through the I think that hon.
Estimates Members of Council should he given more opportunity to study the Estimates and other documents which have been placed on the table.

If it is the intention Government to get the fullest possibler-and over and over-then be given an opportunity matte1·s around to-day I am disappointed many seats vacant in this Council.

Whether it is the intention to make it so for us I do not know, hut on the whole I do think the time has tirrived when this Constitution changed and that very quickly.

.My hon.
.My hon.

the Member for Centrnl Dcmernra friend, (Mr. De Aguiar), to it, but I would &!lk him to be a little more pointedly, tion of that kind.

Looking more carefully.

to see so hon.

Members should to go into these of co-operation I think we have heard that when rden·ing more pr<>cise, of Government of ours should be referred a little to a ques­ a little I want to make it perfectly can say.

After rule in this country state, clear that I with the affairs of am not at all satisfied Government.
I do not know who is the Government, and I do not know if any hon.

Member of Council 100 years of British in a very serious we find ourselves has been and since the Constitution changed ten or twelve years ago the posi­ tion has become ve1·y much worse, and I do want to say that I am not a party to this sort of affairs.
It is true that we happen to be members of the Government and are parties on here, but I do protest the attitude which the Colonv is being administered through the na.tu�e Early steps should be taken to have this Coll-Stitution to everything of Government and I hope the changed, and the way in that goes of our Constitution.

sincerely against granis­ was bad.


To­ officer should In the past I l1ad I want to refer to Labour and Local and tho appointment to foist this post upon us and to in our revenues say : " We are goino to in the position that am!

J of an as recommended by that I do not think Government Industrial Adviser Major Orde-Browne.

in the present economic state of the Colony a new and additional be employed That by this Government.
is a new post, :md I do not want to say that it has been the policy of the Imperial Goverrunent when we are short come along and give gmnts-in-aid."

urged that we should refuse these in-aid, not because they were not useful but because the principle day we find ourselves we will not get any more grants-in-aid our expenditure is steadily do not know how m,iny new officers are but I think an placed on the Estimates, is not necessary Industrial Adviser report and stage.
.Major Orde-Browne's may be all right, recommendations present financial position does not permit of the appointment.

think the Commissioner of Labour ou<>ht to be able to advise Government on ev�ry phase of labour in this Colony, foresee Deputy Commiijsioner policy of Gover·nroent wherever a Deputy.

I shall oppose that item, and I do hope that it will not be passed.

I more about that intend to say Romething if I have tho opportunity to do so in the next few days.
I do w·ge that this is Dot the time to increase salaries, payments time to employ a new and aclditioJla.l officer.

seems to be that you have a Head you must have lump sum and the like.

This is not the of Labour and a of Labour, as the a Commissioner incrnasing.

of the Colony pensions, but the and I can at this I 61 Motion 21 NOVEMBER, 1939.

-Budget Debate 62 The Colony cannot afford to pay the expen­ diture involved.
As a result of the creation of this to find in that and to increase indeed pro­ but does very little but have done nothing I do not think I have exaggerated we find ourselves You have Cl'l'atecl for the people who want The creation Lahour Department no hetter position.

Department employment of that Depart­ employment.

ment is not going to help the progress of the country.

Government i!i very quick to find posts for people and Lo create new depat·tments, to create production duction.
I have said it here over and the position.

over again that there are large numbers of unemployed servative unemployed ment chooses to call it) itt the present time.

What is being done to find employ­ ment for those people ?

I have interviewed every Admiuil;trator as J had the opportunity they all say: "Yes, we are going to do in the mattet·.

something ing committees see, however, is being Estimates done.

That is the direction in which money should be spent, but what is more?

\Ve are appoint­ reports."


estimate would be about 10,000 (as Govern­ OL' under-employed in the Colony.

J think a con­ to show that something there is nothing on the on the matter as soon of doing so, and and getting I have Industries that have been in existence to go the wrnng way-I refer to the rice industry.

That to be the second was considered of the Colony.
It is the second and the second indus­ felt that and began an Ordinance in been allowed particularly industry industry agricultural industry try of the Colony.

Go,ernment the industry should be helpt'd to help it by creating 1932, which has been amended from time to time.

When th;tt Ordinance came into operation I opposed it and s11id tl111t it w11s not done in the right way.

I have dcvott>cl considerable say with all confident question.

putecl.
putecl.

The remar·ks while they may be caustic, and are made with the intention better.
that industry that I feel quite to speak on this a.rn necessary of making T do not think that can be dis-· time to it, and I venture to I am going to make, and qualified confidence $.U.70, $39.40, came in the price of the same as it is to­ with all confidence of Agriculture, It was not a question on that Board since I want to say emphatically It can be safely said that three that we have, purchase 60,000 tons of rice, but we I venture to that view cannot of price, came • were $4 8, When of the trade came into opern­ fore we could have lost none.
The poten­ tial markets, approximately have never had 30,000 tom; at an, one time to supply them.

In 1932 we exported it over 2�,000 tons of rice.

In 1 933 lit.tie we exported 29,000 tons and the value of rice was then $36.40 per ton.

Three ye11rs prior to then the ,•alues $44 and $41 per ton, respectively.

the control tiou the ,alue of rice was, according to the Report of.

the Director $38.40 per ton.

8ince then the rnlups have been $39.60, $44.70, $4-4.70.
years before control rice was practically day.

In fact those years' figu res are slightly higher.

On this score it has been urged that there was 11 lower price result­ ant from lower production.

suggest be accepted.

because three years before control in the price was as it is now and, i£ an,­ thing, higher.
Having served in �n advisory capacity formation, had the advice of the Committee the price of rice would have been accepted greater Therefore statements going to get better prices 1 cannot believe production, not think it is a question I do want to say is this : \\Te have got to profit by past experience.

Here was built up by certitin industry that Government people unaided and against policy.
R11ther it, Government thing possible The word " strangle" strong, the Elected Members of this Council of Htiite the then Undcr-l::icct·clat·,, Colonies, Vi,;counL J lalifax, visited this Colony.

Au address sented to him in which it wa,; �tawd that Government actually of all that, the mdustry rose to what it was before this kind of help came in.

is The bfarkcting coming to an end now and, therefore, I can speak freely on what has happened in the past.
but I repeat what had ht>en said by to for lhe than Government has in the past done even· to strangle had brought in legislation strnngl� that industry.

In and increased at all.

I do of price.

·what the question of price and the that are macle now that we are this industry.

may be considered than that stated in this report.· Board, T understand, its that been when he was pre­ to spite- helping is an Thcl'e are two clasRes of thought here, said th11t we have lost and one has a.lways our ma!
'kets any markets at all.

,ve have never able to supply those markets, and there- for rice.

"Te have never had been 63 Jlotion LRGJBLATJVE COUNCIL, -Biidget Debate 64 I in taking over a Committee Government that the Defence of the powers.

I happened give Your Excellency should be done about Essequebo.

last year with very to have been and I recom­ consideration that of the 1110mbers I cannot imagine Realm Regulations power to take over the whole industry.
concede that you must control it in some way, but I do protest against the action of Government the whole rice industry.

appointed drastic a member of that Committee, mended after very careful with the majority something I do not know how it will be worked and if it will be successful.

That was some­ what socialistic, however.

The recom­ mendations were made.


Those concerned were, I think, practically satisfied that but to agree that they had no alternative the people were not going to lose every­ thing but were going to get adequate com­ pensation building what has happened wiseacre, Government for something the whole industry.

practically ing that the hon.

Colonial is to be substituted troller Colonial otherwise.

and a genuine think he is fully qualified direction.
the energy he will put into it, I maintain he is not qualified Board.

I want to make that statement here because as I have referred try during the last six years, to have the opportunity will happen during the coming yea1·s.
for the time and energy spent in I do not know about that, but some has advised this that this is the opportune time to be done by taking over to help in that While I give him credit for I hope in the years to come, to the state of the indus­ He may have the inclination except­ Treasurer of Customs.

I think the hon.

to refer to what I have said desire to help, but I do not the same personnel The new Board has up the industL·y.

has enough work to do to be Chairman for the hon.


Comp­ some genius, Treasurer of the Board had the If the Rice Marketing of the industry Yet tons in at the with an is satisfied, at heart, it would then it began to the production have never been satis­ is so well satisfied tons has been reduced and those primarily less than half that quantity.

ma.de recommendations tons in 1936, 18,000 tons in 1938.

This year with associated It does not matter what with what to do better.

I want to time.
I want to time.

I speak with the authority Asso­ Guiana East Indians' interest from have certainly of time to time to increase rice, but from 29,000 tons it came down to 14,700 tons.

I would admit that the drought was responsible for that.

It fur­ ther came down to 10,500 tons due to aml fioods,,and drought rise to 20,000 1937, and 12,000 I do not think it will be more than 14,000 tons.
After six years an industry export figure of 29,000 this year to Government has been done that it refuses I£ this Government assure Government that the community and those interested fied in the past and are not satisfied present of the British ciation the industry.

hon.

Members of Council say, I can prove what I say if the Council gives me an to do so.

I want to say how opportunity the affairs of the Board have been con­ ducted.
The members changed from time to time, and I am not going to say any­ thing about those members who are not officers who of this Government, are members of the Governor in Council must share the responsibility and take the blame.

Those members are the hon.

Director and the hon.

of Agriculture Comptroller rightly that Board from its inception, industry finds itself the responsibility The responsibility and those concerned Council.
those officers of Government well in bringing 29,000 figw·es) and as a then I say I am not satisfied, representative I say they are not at all satisfied industry.

must be placed somewhere.

is with the Government in with the Governor is satisfied that have done do"n from the industl'y tons (export of Customs.
If I remember of the people of the country tons to 14,000 those two gentlemen I£ Government in a perilous but those position and if this have been on with the is sufficiently but I want to say Government that the Board, I am not at all satisfied as at present constituted, capable and competent to control the whole rice industry of this Colony.

Government can, however, pleases, should very cautiously and and should consult go into this matter, take the advice of those competent to give that advice.
.As I said just now, this industry and by certain interests.

interests I think those represented on was built up by certain are adequatel;v do what it people and very carefully I believe regulations have been framed as a war measure for Government over the whole industry.

with Your Excellency right thing to do.

I cannot imagine that Your El>ce)lenc;v haii a1Jthorit;v that that is not the I want to plead to do that, to take 65 Motion 21 NOVE!IIDER, 1939.
-Budget D,bate 66 THE PRESIDENT: I cannot allow the hon.

Member to speak about a person who is not a Member of Council.

and running I am not against control.

to some extent, control and the time of the meetings, but I do not think the people At one time represented.

that Board, iue adeqW1tely Board had not one the Rice Marketing Indian on it, and at another time but one Indian who, as the result of his place of residence could not have rendered to that Board.
·when I was a member of the Advisory meetings absent from nea,rly the rules had been strictly adhered seat should have been declared the was and, if to, hiti vacant.

and attended of the Board, that gentleman every meeting any service Committee on.

I do Government I want to conclude to conside1· in their respective I do not question, the has to employ some people.

I have them out of employment.

started heard the names of them, and not a single Indian is among them.
Why this industry should not give benefit to those who built it up is beyond my comprehensi not want to raise othe1· matters.

want to go to the.

big political but I do ask Government people of this country positions.

phase of my addreiss Government and not act iirhitrarily rice industry is proposed.

In fact I welcome but I welcome the right kind of help.

must be helped by the la.ying This industi-y irrig&ting lands, out of suitable ing the lands, and giving to plant rice.
This industry to improve by taking hold of the rice and trying to make money out of it.

It may succeed tions, the industry.


on this with the remark that ought to go very cautiously in taking over the it in the way it owing to war condi­ but I do not think it is going to help and drain­ the people money is not going at present Mr. JACOB: I am willing to prove it Office and to this upon Your Excel­ Association but with the kind of dictator­ on the Board The East I but with a pro­ to be for an industry not to and the people concerned had taken this matter over and over.
They about it and have represented what I say.

If the minutes of the Rice Marketing Board were to be consulted, would be seen that if a member absents himself from three meetings without reasonable cause his seat becomes vacant.

I do want to impress lency that in ma.king this statement, do so with no vindictiveness genuine desire to see the industry gress.

I do want to ask, if it is fair to the community controlled be adequately represented that controls that industry.
Indians' up with Government have written the matter to the Colonial Government, llhip which obtains no further.

matters that I make, that Government heed.

An industry tain people to advise how the industl'y Government may as well ask the Attorney­ General to fill the post of Comptroller Customs, likewise to fill the post of Director That is what in effect Government with the industry.

Government appoint but only makes itt1 appointees in round holes.

I do protest against Government way.


Some of the people are practically bankrupt, and the proposed Joing to mea.n the drivin� we can get in these pa.1·ts It is only by referring and making the kind of statements suggestion of hundreds both being the Director the right people to the right places, and you do not have those people doing things in this wrong of posts, and has done will not has been built up by cer­ should be run.
of Medical technical Services square pegs pays some to these is of of Agriculture.

something, and about the fees, Market­ fees were While this indus­ and while it required who had to Those them from the growers.

were put aside from time to time.

I want to say something of this Boat·d.

expenses try was languishing help of every kind, Grading ing Board fees, and Licensing being collected from exporters collect amounts Rather than give the industry money was taken out of the industry wasted.
$318 per month was the expendi­ ture of the Marketing the O.fficial GtJ.zette The expenditure revenue.

Although able to meet expenditure, concerned has done so well and is going to do a little better for them.

On the whole the more the more I do feel I look into this matter, Government and is not advised is wrongly doing the right thing in respect industry.

for Central referred in excess of the revenue was not Board, as stated in of the 4th November.
of this the Member were being told that the Board Demerara (Mr. De Aguiar) to the Constitution- My hon.

friend, was $259.39 yet the people Mr. DE AGUIAR: To a point of cor­ rection.

I did not use the word " Consti­ tution."

read my thoughts.

The hon.

Member is trying to Mr, JACOB; I clo not think the hon, ST Noeion LBOl8L.&.

Tiff Oonmt.
Tiff Oonmt.

of for you how the money was have no contrnl over to the defective he made reference I endeavou1·ed think that is the correct I do it, but I do as a member the then Chairman told to follow the inconvenience of tha.t money very closely and control to grant-in­ is awa.re of loan Member used the word "Constitution."

In referring expenditure s.id.

I think, Your Excellency of a.n insta.nce in which $188,000 Kra.nt-in-aid-I term-was being spent on the Canals Polder.
I happened to be a member of at no that Authority.

little personal expenditure to see that the money was being properly to hear the hon.

spent.

I was surprised Member say what I was going to say.

When I questioned being spent, when I asked that I should see every item of expenditure of the Authority, me : "Oh, no; it is not necessary to see that.

Y011 tha.t money.

It is a grant-in-aid."


not want to say much about when I am on any feel I am no figurehead and as a member I Board or Authority, must be ma.de a.warn of what is going on a.nd of every amount that is being spent.

I am sorry to say tha.t a lot of that money were has been mis-spent.

made, proper information I was obstructed and was not given the right information as I said just in time with the result, now, the money was mis-spent.
I do is spent, hope tha.t when the whole a.mount that it that a.rea will get the benefit trench was dug requires.

und I told the there costing of then Chairman, that the trench was not Public Works, dug us it was commenced from properly the wrong end, the gentleman agreed said that his predecessor ono enqui1·es about anything Deputy is looking afte1· that."

\Yhen money is wu!

'lted and we get no rcsulls, we just have to take it easy.

That is the way of Government.

change.


The expentlitw·e on the Canals Polder was not propedy done, and it is time that Government appoint gested by the hon.

Member for Central Demerara., particularly districte.

was never given.

in every possible way but did that.

When on public works in outlying public expenditure, of certain Government the hon.

Director When enquil'ies some committee, I think there should be a they ofLen say : "My of this $188,000 \Vhen a certain about $35,000, as has been sug.
to control Officers to consider should be utilized more about this aspect but I do ask well and devise of the and their Members of this Council to a greater ex­ means to check public wast.e that when money is 1:1pent for it.

The Public W orka should be controlled way.

I have raised the question going to a.dd to the burden at the present time.
I a.m not going to add fire to fury, but I do think that the confidence Elected services tent so as to check the public waste, which is going on a.nd which should be within I propose the knowledge of Government.

to say something of the matter privately, Government every possible and ensure value is received Department different here over and over again and I ha.ve aug­ but they ha.ve been things, gested several opposed from time to time.
I am, how­ ever, glad to see there haR been a chang e. Just before I left this Colony four months ago I refe1·red I am very pleased I understand responsible-has quiries which have ha.d good results.

·when the val'ious are being discussed, make other observations shall make constructive in the improvement heads on the Estimate■ I shall endeavour to and, I hope, I that Your Excellency­ you have been primarily to a particular instituted of the Colony.
matter, and certain en­ in a Mr. JACKSON: After the series of should not be effects, embodied District a little.

Government real or imaginary, by the hon.

Member for North in his--what I I think the air needs I am not a rice expert I eat it, and I will not touch upon I would like to say that of this Colony to the for the service ren­ funds for balancing complaints \Vestern term-warm address, clarifying although that question.
the gratitude Imperial de1·ed by p1·oviding with expenditure receipts clouded by any remarks regarding any that lllltowa.rd might ha.ve impeded the independence of tho Colony.

However much we might laud G orernment tempting not be lost sight of tha.t in ordinary circum1:1tances attempt to increase that it is intended have met with strong opposition.

and in these abnormal circumstances I am quite sure, the people of this Colony will be prepared to meet any even­ tuality, taxation will be increased.
to a certain and in normal times any taxation at the present at the prnsent time fo1· at-· it should the Budget, to the extent time would In these and I have no doubt that although to ha.lance times, On the question of roads and public works expenditure generally, I am not criticism resulting 159 Motion 21 Novs•uER, l93!J.

-Budget De&ale 70 what extent British Guiana will not be so unorateful as to raise a. voice against 0 is being done to meet these trying times.
I do not visualize diflicultv in <>'Otting during this s:ssion, are arranged ought really Council.

through the Estimates they for in my opinion on conservative lines and of thei-e can be any to meet with the approval Mr. JACOB: I did not refer to the p1·osent Dfrector matter of fact I do want to say- of Public '\V orks.

As a THE PRESIDENT: The hon.

:Member cannot speak again.

·we are in Council.

He can do so when we get into the Com­ mittee stage.
in sub­ Guiana because showered to enquire that with the " position impending Reference I consider time agai;st I believe to the Council­ examination the move to search in introducing to the Petroleum the appointment to is done in I am not quite sure what River (Mr. Eleazar) at the mav be the criticism imrl I presume he memit, by to a very great extent.

that Bi� or Ordinance before they are submitted to what he regards as your Your vir­ and the hon.

has been made to Your Excel­ departure.
that has been passed a great of this lency's tues have been acclaimed, Member for Berbice referred "unfortunate this Council what he calls "a vicious Bill " bearing reference Bill; but I want to assure Your Excellency that whatever present you will live to have praises upon your head for having h�d the coura�e to bring forward that Bill before this Council, finding of oil in this Colony British will be benefited Personally for oil in this Colony and the necessary Ordinance move on towards the progress Colony, and I am convinced it may be, measure, that mi<>'ht cause a little to with some p;ople should be proceeded I when the geneml good is considered.
have no rloubt, sir, that we shall get get through tho Estimates as possible, wards the close for us to make whatever valedictory make before you retfre I wish to sav here itnd now that if there iu·e two char;tctoristics during your presidency they arc fair-mindedness coupled can be done in the ci1·cumstances.

I say this now, but] trnst I shall have an oppor­ tunity retire.
however important annoyance that we obsei·ve over this Council, said he thought there should of Government Council-that ; there is a Standing and Government of the Council.

that Government of a per­ into all items Tm: COLONIAL SECRE'rARY: 1'he hon.

Member for Cmtral Domerara (Mr. De Aguiar) br a complete expenditure, the U noflicial Members He went on to suggest might consider manent committee of expenditure.

the hon.
the hon.

Member has in mind, whether it committee should be a permanent which all items of proposed would consider expenditure the Legislative some Colonies Finance Committee mits to that Body items of expenditure before they are brought or that when the time comes to deal with the Annual Estimittes mates Committee that, I know, is done in some cases; it is not a permanent but one appointed hand the hon.

Member mav haye in mind a committee spent.

If that is what voted is properly the hon.


Member meant, and he siiid in respect would certainlv have a verv bui,y time.

1 think what tl�e hon.

Member �eant was that to whom all there should be a committee items of doubtful might be expenrliture ; but there is deferred akeadv machinen· for Government action· has been mis-spent.

spent " reminds ber for North Western District !Said it minute ago.

He has accused of mis-spending Dep,trLment money.

I do that is so.
I do that is so.

I not for a moment believe only refer to it to point out that items of expenditure Polder go before a Board, and it does not seem that the Board in that case has been if what the hon.

Member verv successful, says is true.

committee year by year.

Ou the other and Sea Defences): Tho North \V estern Chairmim 11.nd said that he failed from me.

I challenge is absolutely of Public Works hon.

Member for referred to get information that statement.

The lion.
The lion.

Member for Central Deme1·a1·a of the Canals Polder Authority to takr that money remarks we may be pleased when it is· considered for investigntion Mr. CASE (Director and tirue will be given to­ may be appointed­ to make sure that expenditure (l\lr.Jacoh) tt certain me of what the hon.

Mem­ from this Colony.

to say something to do the best that in connection that committee Using the word "mi8- incorrect.
with the Canals and firmness more before you with a desire as quickly District of all item!>, an Esti­ that any to me as to It 71 Budg91, Dibate LEGIBLA'rlVB Oomm'IL.

Commitiee of Supply 72 by that to guarantee not approving went on to ask Government of State for in the event of the Secret:uy the Colonies of the items which have not so far been approved amount of money would him, the equivalent at the end of the year.

be shown as savings It is impossible to give any such guarantee.
I can only guarantee spent on those particular not imagine as to go through come before the Council with Supple­ mentat·y the money will no doubt be used either other items or, perhaps, on roads, as he hopes we may be able to find money for that in the near future.

the money will not be but I can items, to supplement for expenditure that we will be so fot·tunate a yeat· without Estimates.
Therefore having to have been decided at length to the and I would just in regard and agricultural upon in respect The hon.

Member for Eastern Berbice referred Scheme, that the position (Mr. Luckhoo) Land 8ettlement like to mention to that is that engineering surveys by of two of the three areas suggested namely Pin.

for settlement, the Committee Essequebo, Anna Regina cum annexis, East and the Craig-Garden in respect Bank, Demerara.
of Anna Regina have been completed and the report has just come to hand.

I understand of the Craig-Garden very soon be submitted to Government.

Due consideration question be converted in respect of Eden area will also into L.i.nd Settlement will be given lo the th,tt the surveys those areas should of Eden ,trea, as to whether The surveys areas.

continue although to rise.


the how it can help Junior Govern­ if prices that, because consider ment employees, I only mention of $87,000 Estimates show a small surplus amount we still have to find a cou11iderable of money during the next few months, and I do not think we ought to make up our minds at this stage not to look to the Imperial ever again for Government assistance.

I shall consider the case of the officer in a year's it will be investi­ to by the hon.

Member.
Member.

I am but now has been brought to the referred afraid I do not know the facts, that the mittter notice of Government gated.

The hon.

Member also rnferred to to increase the lack of measures produc­ time we will be tion.

Perhaps able to say it has been possible to do some­ Hon.

:Members thing in that direction.


is being done to that everything are awiu·e tho output of rice, and to take increase advantage of the ,var to make much more use of rice and export it to ou.,r neighbours and, probably, less timber, timber grantll.

There is also on hit; way here the '.l.

'obacco there will be some measure of production in that direction import less flour and also work on ou1· and encourage in the near future.

Expert and, the1·efore, Board are responsible The hon.
Member for North ,v estern of the to perform made a very definite state­ District ment, I think, that the membei·s Rice Marketing with export of rice ,LS compared for the small the year 1936.

I see no reason to hlame members of the Board.

They had certain duties formed.

I should think it is more likely and the fact due to the low price of pa<li, that a minimum price having been fixed for padi rice-growers to plant more padi.

The export, assure the hon.


Member if that is done, will increase and those have been per­ rapidly.

I can should be encouraged The hon.

member for Berbice Rivet· to for hopes it would I g,i.ther, I hope not, too, but I think for this Government Go,·ernment ,v e have a con­ within tlio laHl few ye,trs Govern­ sum from the Imperial (Mr. Eleazar), never be nece1:1sary look to the Imperial g1·ants-in-aid.

we should bt' Yen· thankful.

received siderable to see how the Colony ment.


It is difficult I would assistance.

can carry on without like to draw hon.

Members' attention the fact that there is only a very small over expenditure margin of revenue the figure being $87,500.

19-10 Estimatel.i, I do not think hou.

Member!!

need look very far.

"\Ve shall have to find money for several Hon.

Members know the question something has and we have to find to be considered, also has to money for that.
Government of doing to the West Coast Railway other works in the near future.

in the to I think I have referred to most of the by hon.

Members.

If I have any and I am reminded, points raised 01nitted refer to it.

I move th11,t resolve to be the Estimates of Expenditure cleft:ayed from Revenue during the year endmg 31st December, 1940, which have been laid on the table.

into Committee the Council to consider itself I ahall Question put, and agreed to.

Council in CowU1ittee.

21 NOVBIIBEB, 1939.


-Oo,mnlttu of Supply ,-4: ESTIMATES-1940.

Item 4-Registration LEGISLATURE .

and Election Expenses, $4,400.

Mr.

PEER BACCHU:::l : I want to of Elections that in past years for remind Government the purpose many Beturning Officers were made Commissioners Onths to Atlidavits.

sioned unnecessary missioners are for away from the town.

Candidates to get to Com­ of On.ths especially when they travel are occa­ of TnE COLONIAL 8ECRETARY: I would be ghul if the hon.
:Member indicate the inconvenience suffered.

there are no Commissioners tricts Does he mean in the di,;­ to whom persons cnn go?

Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: There is no I think it was in the Esse­ on the Vv est Coast, Berbicc, I had to Elections that one be sent there from New Commissioner and at the last General request Amsterdam.

quebo District, experience declan1tion Georgetown done in time to lodge with the Returning Officer.
a candidate when it was found that his was bad; he had to travel to before he could have had it had similar TnE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I shall look into the matter and sec if it is to lrnve anything necessary done.

Mr. WOOLFORD: I did not hear what at the time of his nomination declara­ can swear to his the hon.

Member was asking i�bout tions.

A candidate declaration and hand it in.

It has to be dono wiLhin forty-eighL hourH, to within lhaL period of time.
The htw must be conformed to at the time of nomination.

but it has not to be sworn Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: The declara­ tion has to bl' filed after nomination.

think that one of the objections cannot be made before nomi­ declaration nation.

is that I TnE CHAIRMAN: The hon.

Colonial Secretary look into the matter.

h8.

!i already said that he will AGRICULTURI>.

Mt·.


ELEAZAR: Under this ilea.cl, as it is • misfor­ of Agriculture, period of the year to plaut the people by practical ideas which do not tally is vacant a considerable geuerally something I have never at any time felt to have a Deputy at all.
The Agricultural every yea.t· on this Depa.rtmeut a.re hardly worth men­ obtained I am going to suggest to that now that the post of experience with by this DPpart­ instead of tak­ the duty of compelling I have &lw&ys said, perhaps tune th11,t I cannot see eye to eye with the but I do say hou.

Director that fot· this amount of money we a.re spending the results tioning.

Government Deputy Director and I saving can be ma.de in that respect, To be am going to wove its deletion.
very candid, that it is necessary l,irector Dep1Lrt­ ment, T take it, is there to advise agricul­ when they come up turists that is difficult.

Thi, against Department work will do the research and give advice as to the best plants to be used, the best Lo etc., and leave it to the !l.griculturists Tu this accept their advice or otherwise.

country have certain tho theory propounded ment, and the Department ing upon itself people to do things their way should con­ tent itself of with looking the of.lice.
If that was doue there would be in no necessity that Department, we do not get the very best results that I know of my own knowledge t.he minor iutluslries of of Agri­ by the Depat·tment been initiated in the past.

Those are industries cultut·e found existing, the Department and most of them have been initi,Lted purely by the and energy of the poor man in industt·y was the businesF.
by the fa.t·mcrs started a few putting lmndful of i;cec.ls their provi�ion be doing well, aud the man with plenty of morn seed land at his <lisp sid put a little good in his swampy land and that yielded results.

expanded, having l,een and Sir Alexander in the East and seen the similarity of condi­ there and those here, tions obtaining told t.he people when he was being wel­ comed to plant coconuts th1:1 Director bas advised the people to cut down some of those coconut trees as they have too many.
The people would not cut them down as they held t,ha.t if they got one coconut from The one tree the iu the small tlraius farms.

Timi, wa,; fouud to In Lhat wtiy the industry Swetteubam, for this array of 'ologists y would be satisfied.

The rice industry after the duties from whom the Colony had not that mc•st of we ought.

a11<l rice.

But of 75 E,timalu, 1940 LEOl!

!l,ATIVII COU1'CJL.

-Committee of Supply 76 with its scienti­ can help them when they but the goes the other wn.y 1tbout it.
people did not wait for the Department to tell them what lo grow 01· even how to grow it.

The Department fic knowledge come up against ditficultit•�, Department e\'ery­ The Uepa.rtment thing, and it pusheR everything wrongly, like it has done in the case of the BarnmtL Industry.

Alliance, not have e. thing there.

It is now husy 1Lt La Belle and when it is finished you will a.nd for all tha.t you ca.n only hear a. ffow of oratory.

He likes to be" it" all the time.


The mo.n on the spot must be counted and the picture you will get along well.

We need more in return fo1· this large expeuditure I am going to move the Oepartment.

reduction of one or two item a11d if Government sees with me, perhaps, they For this large sum of may he reduced.

I on this Department, money expended think, we ought to get something more out of the Department.

feels it must push ; take him into on this I think I ought to mention this case.
the com­ Mr. DE AGUIAR: I interpret and of the because I am not up to as printed, of $2,000 may s1tt.isfied re<luction to the draftsman from this Department, in respect of the various in my mind that there he hopes for.
There in respect but, as we are all accus­ pliment po.id by the hon, Member for Berhice Rive1· on the o.ttempt to reduce this Head as a tribute of these estimates, the present is a reduction, which is an apparent Estimates tomed to receive there l1ave been the usual transfers cross entries heads that I am not so surn that in another year 01· two what appears now to be 11, slight reduction result in an incn•u.se sum.

I merely want that I support, present at bal'd times, the appointment lJirector over.
I m1ike that suggestion sincerity, and say that thi!!

Department told definitely no attempt should be made t.o incrc11se establishmeut.

these esLiomtes, with me that even now made to increase Of course it shows a reduction I.mt I do not know what will appear late1· on.

If hon.

Members examine I think, they will agree is being un attempt here.
at pt·i>sent, to say right away tlmt for the in view of the the suggestion especially should be held with all and I "ill go one step furthet· the establishment at least the that fot· the present of Agriculture of perhap:1 twice that of a Deputy should be least, else.

I, however, forced I adum­ in is going to allow of Agriculture He said to me: "You Why not, if that is what will have an opportunity production and, I think, Government Tho hon.

Director to reply.
Director to reply.

Government recently brated a. plan for increasing the districts has since put that in the hands of the hon.

Director.

From what I have hope from certain quarters-I gathered hon.

if!

wt·ong-the ruy information Dii·ector to push is seeking down the people's throat what he wants them to do.

One man asked me a perti­ nent question.

mean to say Government us to plant a. whole bed of cassava?''

said to him : " you can grow."


He said he would exchange aome of the cassava with the man who grows something him to grow cassava.. Those are t.he ways in which Government u.ud is misdirected as .a result does not get much benefit.

I Bel Afr J:>a, k is to be used understand with the view of making this production reality.

term.

You do not want to go lo Bel Air l'a.l'k You have plenty of waste laud where people had been trying and trying, and all the people want is a little help.
We 1ue not so bankt-upt for places to plant that we must go to Bel Ait· Park.

That is a by the Department.

misdirection Department go into the couut1·y and find out from the people there what their difficulties a.re, and also find out how the land can best he cultivated and what help the people want.

I do implore Government and the hon.


Dfrector and his Dep1ut­ of Agriculture their minds to something ment to addres:1 real, not something pe1i­ like the Rodwell's nut patch, where $60 was spent on an a.ere of nut cultivation back in 1·eturn.

i;Jirectio11 and only $30 was got That was under the to plough it up for thu.t pul'pose.
Let the districts I do not waut to use 11, h!l.l'd of the Pirector o. of Agriculture, to put one to my mind, has been in wages to those This reduction, due to a reduction men on the lower grade, proposal Establishment, have our pension the Assistant so many cross entries, bon.

Member fot· Berbice River reallv intended these estiP1a.tes the draft11ma.n of 1 l have always compli- and im ly we will to compliment t'l:ijit I think the g. I refer to costs l'f&in Plant Breed..
There are 77 Estimates, 191µ) :21 NovFMBER.

oj Supply 7r3 19!19.

-Co11111iittee ditlicult as presented to this morniog-an<l here again I wish to remind one can from year to to follow the to thi'l Council mented him.

Unless I have the full par­ ticulars-and hon.

Members of Council of what I referred make the same comparison year, it is extremely by estimates What surprises me is thii; Department.

here.
here.

I that I <lo not see :i new 'ologist suppose we cannot find any as the Uni ver­ si ties of the world have !

'topped rollin� that i, a treat which them out.

Perhaps, is in store for us next year or the year after.

I may mention en passant just to appoint that it is proposed casually a new Agricultural Superinteudent.

It is not clear whether it is a new post or it is the filling of a post which has become vacant, but there :�gain you fiuci note� here like "Interchange Colonial ment of Agriculture."
the opinion this head is going to be increased by $2,000.

I am stl'Ongly that before 1 941 is reached Office and DPpart­ of posts between Secretary's again of financial to appr�ciate I am sorry the hon.

Member for East­ ern Demerara (Mr. J:Iumphrys) is not the here.

He did not seem of the point made this morning in respect What I was position.

Colony's to point out was that the endea voul'ing time has come when we have got to reduce our administrative thaL something should direction.
itnd this Government investigation Department information been too many cross en tries.

be done in tlrnt I cannot assist this Council without full particularf!

being availn of the estimates cost, anrl I do urge with a proper ble, as there hare of this and 'JnE CH.AIRMAN: Hon.

Membe!

's may on this Head at the pl'es­ !ipeak generally ent tiU1e, anrl then later on I will put the so that hon.

va1·ious �Iembers ou the particular speak on.


items separately, will have a chance of speaking items that they wish to and satisfactory of any products product."

everything has been held up.

In has definitely of establishing It seems that we have here and there must be some olhel' that a Ceutral Rice is doing all it can and Jepends on ag1·icul­ of Agriculture in generating.

quite a lot of rice.

It is unfortunate the project Mill in Essequebo Essequebo ture.

The hon.
The hon.

L•irector in his own report as Chairman of the Coast Commission Essequebo pointed out " rice is not so stabled for the economic reconstl'uction district If 1 have inter­ substantial preted his words wrongly he may call me to order.

'\'hat have we done in find­ ing satisfactory Government exports?

to see th:tt the grower is protected also tlie consumer.
Govemmeut appoint would noL take perhaps committees as several haps report in two or three days, to see whether this Colony cannot increase its products and exports of agricultural with­ can be developed what industries in the Colony that will create employ­ that the ment.

It is also unfortunate which was .

Committee by the hon.

appointed (Mr.

Member for North Western District Jacob) and of which the hon.

Director of Agriculture <lropped.

We were told get a certain amount of meat tmde by that.
That, however, by the Foods Production was Chairman, has been that we would on Dairy Products, on a motion moved months and years do but would per­ is being dealt with Committee.
I would suggest that a Committee, which wood pulp scheme which dealing auything foodstuffs at not he1wing industries, apprehensive from Your with oil or I was a little disappointed while it serves the pur­ 01· to or to substitute can also extend its activi­ which may be de­ and 11 That Committee, pose of trying to develop increase exports, for that imported, ties to other industries veloped.

little Excellency the admirable was put up.
I thiuk that Committee serve a useful purpose galvanizing we could export other than the recognised exports at the p1·esent mittee may be given term11 of reference dealing revenue one can derive a considerable of in f!ceiug wlwther there are 11ssistauce of revenue "hich will not other avenues to necessarily those who a.re u11able with the comparntive from 1928 to l 038, as from that a.mount that into action some tl1ought the cost of living to bear it, l:1011, time.

'.l.
'.l.

'h11t Com­ statement increase in genernting or would of to this as the hon.

Mr. C. V. WIGHT: In relation has done, Demerara Head I was going to suggest, Member for Central that we should reduce our administrative cost.

That ifl one way in looking I would also suggest ou1· exports generally.

to know exactly interested the Departmen� that we should incl'ense One would be has shown any activity what exports at it.

79 Estimates, 1940 LEGIBLATIVB COUNCIL.


-Committee y 80 of Snppl for all the agricul turn.I activi­ tariff, as one realize!

:' Members .

will see that there are ce1·tain industries we may attempt to de\'elop under the which may not be necessarily the crisis protective the British Nation is passing through at the moment.
I think if the suggestion is adopted, some of the unemployment which is at present the and we would be able to ameliorate amount of fo1· a conside1·able necessity for the in­ and the nPcessity taxation creased cost of lidng, which at present so paramount class.

in the minds of the working rampant would be alleviated is The hon.

Membe1• for Western Eslle-· of to it be­ away anything t.o the satisfac­ my attempting of Agriculture but, not to the satis­ Report of the for 1938.
It is to criticize support quebo, (Mr. C. V. Wight) 1·eferred exports.

I recommend to his careful pt-rusal the Administration Director useless from the cause you get very little Government side, and as to the hon.

writer of the report he is capable explaining tion of Government of the public.
When it comes to faction they do not see the my constituents officers of the Department, except a Junior Official, and I do not think they are keen on seeing any of the Agricultural that the Officers as they have fo1111d otficers of the Department have not been able to help them all these years.

I say that with the autho1·ity When I look at ble man in that district.

the report what do I see?

It starts off with Sugar.

I do not know who is going to take the c1·edit be the hon.
Director, leave that as I do not want to enter into any controversy.

cannot understand, understand, the large expenditure all these yea.rs.
Apart from sugar I 11or will I be able to what can be said to justify in this Department may­ fo1· that industry, but I maybe others, of every responsi­ Hice-I h"ave said enough about that Coffee-the nor of the country There has been won­ aloug certain lines, and in 1938 the itwount Coconuts­ worth of now is about 14,000 tons-more already, but I do want to repeat that the export in 1933 was 29,000 tons and the expo1·t than 50 per cent.

decrease.
decrease.

the value in 1929 was $314,350 copra exported, was only $41,613.

derful improvement but not in the interest of tha people engaged in the coconut value of the export industry.

in 1928 was $104-,000; in 1938 it w11,s in 1939 it would be $5,657, and probably nearly the same, if not lt>ss.
Here is au industry I should certainly tion from Your Excellency happened from Director of Agl'irulture Suriname, Dutch happened t0 the report of the Select with recommendations Committee of State fo1· the Colonies.

Secretary There is complete stand that the price of coffee now is about twelve cents per pound 11,s compared wjth and myself to and what has which could have been helped.

like to hea1· an explana­ the visit of the hon.


and I unde1·­ as to what has silence, Guian1L, to the state­ Mr. JACOB: The comparative with one gets an estimate previous Subtract­ of $125,977.
would be primarily of making some explana­ of $32,000 during ment that has been issued shows that in unde1· this Head was 1929 the expenclitu1·e $93,977 and the proposed now is but as I do not propose to use $118,923, that figure I shall refer to the 1939 approved estimate ing $93,977 from $125,977 excess expenditure the laflt ten years.

One would ima.gine that this Department responsible ties, and it ought to be burdened the responsibility tion as to why this or that has not been done.
We are paying ve1·y nice salariPS to all the officers of this Depart­ ment.

I do not think this Department I can afford to pay those salaries.

occasions, !,ave said so on seve1·al and I do so now again.

Opportunity should be t11,ken immediatelv vacancies smaller salaries.

Your Excellencv you 11re Goveru�r, vour mind b11,ck 1tnd see whether the �alaries' scale in that J sland cannot use­ fully be applied I understand Colony and we 11,re, I think, in it lower class in every respect.
the scale of salaries high for the preseut economic condition that of the Colony.

I am uot suggesting those d1·awing of salaries the present scale should give up part of that, but new officers should be employed ealaries.

that with the post of Deputy Director of Agriculture.

gested �he iteJP is being taken, I should like to refer to that Islund of which and to ask JOU to take there are to get officers to" work for No, no).
Barbados is a first dass I think afte1· all offered here is too that we should deal with that when 1 think it has been sug­ here.

(Voices: Opportunity affords itself for at reduced 81 Estimates, 1940 n NOVEMBER, 1939, -Co11nnittee oj S1ipply82 in his usual style persuaded the Item 1 (2)-Deputy $4,320.

culture, Director of Ag1·i­ condition ::\1r.

ELEAZAR: I move the deletion I sus­ of the industry.

now that time ago.
now that time ago.

had been helped when and was urged, it four and five cents some little If tha.t industry help was necessa1y would have been in a flourishing to-day.

But I knew the policy of Govern­ ment in respect pect the policy of Government thel·e is no coffee industry.

prised if the coffee produced sufficient is not a serious in, I do not know ernment what is.

Surely this Government to ho.ve done something to help the industry.

I am not sur­ now is not If that for local consumption.
state of affairs for Gov­ to find itself ought in this report, of increaseci rice, coconut, that something that they are paid to produce will enable oul· production and I hope that the production, has at means this Department us to double, if not within a few years.

in all serious­ <lone in be done In respect of coffee, and every other commodity you produc­ will find tho.t instead tion there is decreased all the production time.

I do not know what to sav.


I see that every attempt is being made now to increase scientific its disposal treble, I want, however, to suggest ness that some reorganisation be this Department, to let t,he officers of this Department understand more things and better things.

I am not with the way in which the at all satisfied is being run, the resultR Department and the increasing are getting, Most of the ture of the Llepartment.

ofticers of the Department do very little work.


I know that is going to bo selieusly I am talking diture production not at all su.tisfactory.

something necessary.

and the post of Deputy Director Agl·iculture contradicted, u.bout.

This but J know what expen­ increased for the last ten years with decreased will be done.

Some change is we expendi­ should be reduced should not be filled.

and decreasing population I do hope that Salaries of is others and myself protested against it but the hon.

hon.
hon.

Mem­ was made, I persuaded He and another of the item because the post is now vacant and there has never been the neces­ sity for it.

When the request remember, very strongly Director Government.

ber, who bas since joined the Great :Majority, to the Government agree with him.
Now that we are in straits Cor money, and we need money to produce more things so as to reduce taxa­ tion in spite of our present here is an opportunity ment, if it is sincere policy, ing to delete The Department now, so many technical that it ought to be able to carry on without the of this officer.

I move the assistance deletion to show that sincerity offered Govern­ of this item.

this item from the Estimates.


bas so many 'ologists assistants, by consent­ condition, in its retrenchment Mr. DE AGUIAR : I am supporting to the view I am inclined the Head of the Depart­ in my own it is instance officer to to Gov­ the motion of the hon.

Member for Berbice River.

Whilst that, perhaps, ment may need a Deputy on certain occasions I am not satisfied in this particular mind that necessary to u.ppoint a special this post.

I am going to suggest and to the hon.


in all seriousness ernrue11t Director to borrow a leaf of Agriculture, of out of the book of the hon.

Director and can·y on with one of Medical at the the officers in his Department present time acting as his Deputy.

I think it would come with good grace if the hon.

Director accepts am a strong supporter have no desire to repeat the figures the hon.

Membel' am in agreement that Ruggestion.

I I of Government.

gave to the Council, with what he stated.


:::ien·ices but I Mr. C. V. WIGHT: I am in posses­ difticult document referred It is extremely the reason why I suggest the of the committee, which will generally of the reason for sion of the particular to by the hon.

Member, and I have perused it.


That is appointment go into the question Department the decrease parison of Revenue, be able to derive 01· increase with the Comparative and also what revenue froi:ii this source, to get up in this Council and make a suggestion of result this Department near the figure it was in 1929.

For that reason, think the suggestion hon.


Member for Western Essequebo good one, This ia one of the Depart­ ments that we ought to have a permanent coJWXlittee 11itting I put forward by the is a in the expenditure to enciuire ipto iti, and find out the in a reduction to anything Statement of items on com­ that will we may 83 EBtimates, 1940 LBGISLATIVE CouNOIL, -Committee of Supply 84 we There should You have the tirue has the administration being given.

I at present.
I at present.

in so far a.s the allowances I am so glad that that this Council staff but several While I agree that a and surely if the neces­ in this Uepartment.

officer for the purpose.

wen in the Departmcut, investigate of money is concerned.

it appears to me that is one which is not abso­ has The Department expenditure.

motion by the hon.

Member for Berbice This is one of the Depart­ River (Mr. Eleazar) ments I had in mind when I told Govern­ this position ment this morning lutely necessary.
thoroughly expenditure not only the technical first class clerks, are too many 'ologists sity arose one of the number would be in It ie top-heavy.

Head should have a Deputy, a position to act as reputy.

I know come when we cannot afford to have a that throughout special have personal many qualified shall deal with that when we come to and one of them can very wi-ll carry the Per­ another head more appropriate.
title and <lo the work of the Deputy haps a little may be allowance personal Director given to tho person who is acting as bas arisen that hon.

Mem­ a.n opportunity Deputy, a definite bers can put forward allowances of personal of some kind can be where a reduction officers generally, as surely made.

I think the appoiutment has not sary for such an allowance I imagine Govern­ yet.
been made, because the officers concerned ment is somewhat embarrassed by the ferred criticisms the necessity obviate m1mt has not yet been made, I do entreat That is why I am supporting to accept the suggestion Government for the deletion be deleted forward way I will support the appointment If financiu,l for the p1·esent.

an officer to be designated comes to the Colony, Director generous salary of $4,3:.W the post.
coming here and if Government fit to appoint as suggested the committee by me (and for that I have the greatest to carry out the very words of support) Your Excellency very words I shall use in support of the motion.

though I am against the giving to the various if it is neces­ and paid a is if this officer is deems it to be given to they should be trans­ Mr. JACOB: I am disappointed to some other Department put at least of Agriculture" made.

If the appoint­ of the item.


The only then we may be very in appointing in your speech, that the item suggestion prosperity previously for the allowance.

the motion a special "Deputy and those and thus officer to of to get any reduction The Council resumed.

is to-day, even if we were full it to think that no attempt has been made to answer any of the points made in the debate.

I do think that there general should be some reply.

Constituted as this Council might not be possible of this vote.
Apart from this item, when other items come up I intend to speak on them as well.

I do urge that Government take a se1·ious of the Colony.

The co-operation Elected Members encou1:aged.

I am greatly I urge on Government encouragement to assist in the administration Government.

that some more be given to enable us of the of the should be view of the financial discourfl,ged of Council in this matter.

position I use the word advisedly.


TnE PRESIDENT: Before the Council to state that normally I desire is the day for the taking of motions.

on with the adjourns, Wednesday Unofficial straight Estimates.

ever, that any Unofficial placed on the Orde1· of the Day fo1· to­ morrow the Order of the Day would be accordingly.

arranged If hon.

Members wish, how­ to go It is desired of the consideration motion should be The Council adjourned to the following Mr. C. V. WIGHT: In supporting the day at 10.30 n. m.