Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698940630938.pdf (Malaysia)
Volume I No.
26 Thursday 3rd December, 1964 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) OFFICIAL REPORT FIRST SESSION OF THE SECOND PARLIAMENT OF MALAYSIA CONTENTS ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS [Col. 3409] BILL: The Supply Bill, 1965 (Second Reading) [Col. 3419] EXEMPTED BUSINESS (Motion) [Col. 3470] DI-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG, A.M.N., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN KUALA LUMPUR 1965 Harga: $1 MALAYSIA DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report First Session of the Second Dewan Ra'ayat Thursday, 3rd December, 1964 The House met at Ten o'clock a.m.
PRESENT: The Honourable Mr Speaker, DATO' CHIK MOHAMED YUSUF BIN SHEIKH ABDUL RAHMAN, S.P.M.P., J.P., Dato' Bendahara, Perak.

the Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, Y.T.M.

TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PUTRA AL-HAJ, K.O.M.

(Kuala Kedah).

the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence, Minister of National and Rural Development, TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N.

(Pekan).
(Pekan).

the Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N.

(Johor Timor).

the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah).

the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N.

(Sungai Siput).

the Minister of Transport, DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR, P.M.N.

(Pontian Utara).

the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR JOHARI (Kedah Tengah).
the Minister of Health, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah).

the Minister of Education, ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB, P.J.K.

(Kuantan).

the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan).

the Minister for Welfare Services, TUAN HAJI ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT ALI KHAN, J.M.N., J.P. (Batang Padang).

the Minister for Sarawak Affairs, DATO' TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.M.N., P.D.K.

(Sarawak).
(Sarawak).

the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' V. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K.

(Klang).

the Minister of Information and Broadcasting, ENCHE' SENU BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Kubang Pasu Bar at).

the Minister without Portfolio, ENCHE' PETER LO SU YIN (Sabah).

3403 3 DECEMBER 1964 3404 The Honourable the Assistant Minister of National and Rural Development and Assistant Minister of Justice, ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN BIN YA'KUB, (Sarawak).
the Assistant Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN BULON (Bagan Datoh).

the Assistant Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, ENGKU MUHSEIN BIN ABDUL KADIR, J.M.N., S.M.T., P.J.K.

(Trengganu Tengah).

the Assistant Minister of Education, ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Sepang).

ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N.

(Melaka Utara).

ENCHE' ABDUL KARIM BIN ABU, A.M.N.

(Melaka Selatan).

WAN ABDUL KADIR BIN ISMAIL, P.P.T.

(Kuala Trengganu Utara).


WAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU TUANKU BUJANG (Sarawak).

TUAN HAJI ABDUL RASHID BIN HAJI JAIS (Sabah).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN, K.M.N., P.J.K.

(Krian Laut).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HUSSIN (Lipis).

Y.A.M.

TUNKU ABDULLAH IBNI AL-MARHUM TUANKU ABDUL RAHMAN, P.P.T.

(Rawang).

TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD.

SALLEH, A.M.N., S.M.J., p.i.s.

(Segamat Utara).

ENCHE' ABU BAKAR BIN HAMZAH (Bachok).

TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kelantan Hilir).


ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N.

(Muar Utara).

TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID, J.P. (Seberang Utara).

ENCHE' ALI BIN HAJI AHMAD (Pontian Selatan).

O.K.K.

DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

DR AWANG BIN HASSAN, S.M.J.

(Muar Selatan).

ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).

ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG, A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

PENGARAH BANYANG ANAK JANTING, P.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N.

(Kluang Selatan).


ENCHE' CHAN SEONG YOON (Setapak).

ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).

ENCHE' CHIA CHIN SHIN, A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' FRANCIS CHIA NYUK TONG (Sabah).

ENCHE' CHIA THYE POH (Singapore).

ENCHE' CHIN FOON (Ulu Kinta).

ENCHE' C. V. DEVAN NAIR (Bungsar).

ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK TANGKUN (Sarawak).

TUAN SYED ESA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S.

(Batu Pahat Dalam).

DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI ABDUL MAJID (Johor Bahru Timor).

DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N.


(Jitra-Padang Terap).

„ „ 3 DECEMBER 1964 3406 ENCHE' S. FAZUL RAHMAN, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' GANING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah).

ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N.

(Penang Utara).

ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD.

YUNUS, A.M.N., J.P. (Kulim Utara).

ENCHE' HANAFIAH BIN HUSSAIN, A.M.N.

(Jerai).

ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Baling).

WAN HASSAN BIN WAN DAUD (Tumpat).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN T O' MUDA HASSAN, A.M.N.

(Raub).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN MOHD.

NOORDIN, A.M.N., P J .


K. (Parit).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN SULAIMAN (Ulu Kelantan).

TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu).

ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah).

ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan).

DATO' SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, P.M.N.

(Johor Tenggara).

ENCHE' JEK YEUN THONG (Singapore).

PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN, Q.M.C., A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak).


ENCHE' KHOO PENG LOONG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' K OW KEE SENG (Singapore).

ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LEE SAN CHOON, K.M.N.

(Segamat Selatan).

ENCHE' LIM HUAN BOON (Singapore).

DATO' LIM KIM SAN, D.U.T., J.M.K., D.J.M.K.

(Singapore).

ENCHE' LIM PEE HUNG, P.J.K.

(Alor Star).

DR MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMAD (Kota Star Selatan).

ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson).

ENCHE' JOSEPH DAVID MANJAJI (Sabah).


DATO' DR HAJI MEGAT KHAS, D.P.M.P., J.P., P.J.K.

(Kuala Kangsar).

ENCHE' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA, P.M.K.

(Pasir Puteh).

ORANG TUA MOHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHD.

DAUD BIN ABDUL SAMAD (Besut).

ENCHE' MOHAMED IDRIS BIN MATSIL, J.M.N., P J .

K ., J.P. (Jelebu-Jempol).

ENCHE' MOHD.

TAHIR BIN ABDUL MAJID, S.M.S., P.J.K.

(Kuala Langat).

ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N.

(Temerloh).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ZAHIR BIN HAJI ISMAIL, J.M.N.


(Sungei Patani).

WAN MOKHTAR BIN AHMAD (Kemaman).

TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan).

ENCHE' MUHAMMAD FAKHRUDDIN BIN HAJI ABDULLAH (Pasir Mas Hilir).

3407 3 DECEMBER 1964 3408 The Honourable TUAN HAJI MUHAMMAD SU'AUT BIN HAJI MUHD.

TAHIR, A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

DATO' HAJI MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ABDUL JABAR, D.P.M.S., A.M.N., J.P. (Sabak Bernam).

ENCHE' MUSTAPHA BIN AHMAD (Tanah Merah).


DATO' N IK AHMAD KAMIL, D.K., S.P.M.K., S.J.M.K., P.M.N., P.Y.G.P., Dato' Sri Setia Raja (Kota Bharu Hilir).

ENCHE' NG FAH YAM (Batu Gajah).

DR NG KAM POH, J.P. (Telok Anson).

ENCHE' ONG KEE H UI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Perlis Utara).

ABANG OTHMAN BIN HAJI MOASILI, P.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Timor).

TUAN HAJI RAHMAT BIN HAJI DAUD, A.M.N.

(Johor Bahru Barat).

ENCHE' RAMLI BIN OMAR (Krian Darat).


TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD.

SAID, P.J.K., J.P. (Rembau-Tampin).

RAJA ROME BIN RAJA MA'AMOR, P.J.K., J.P. (Kuala Selangor), ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB, P.I.S.

(Muar Pantai).

ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh).

ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SIOW LOONG HIN, P.J.K.

(Seremban Barat).

„ „ „ ENCHE' SNAWI BIN ISMAIL, P.J.K.

(Seberang Selatan).

ENCHE' SNG CHIN JOO (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SULEIMAN BIN A LI (Dungun).


PENGIRAN TAHIR PETRA (Sabah).

ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN ALI, P.J.K.

(Larut Utara).

ENCHE' TAI KUAN YANG (Kulim-Bandar Bharu).

ENCHE' TAMA WENG TINGGANG WAN (Sarawak).

DR TAN CHEE KHOON (Batu).

ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan).

ENCHE' TAN TOH HONG (Bukit Bintang).

ENCHE' TAN TSAK YU (Sarawak).

ENCHE' TIAH ENG BEE (Kluang Utara).

PENGHULU FRANCIS UMPAU ANAK EMPAM (Sarawak).

ENCHE' YEH PAO TZE (Sabah).

ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas).


ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TZE (Sarawak).

TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD.

TAIB, P.J.K.

(Langat), ABSENT: The Honourable the Minister for Local Government and Housing, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH, P.J.K.

(Ulu Selangor).

the Minister of Lands and Mines, TUAN HAJI MOHD.

GHAZALI BIN HAJI JAWI (Ulu Perak).

3409 3 DECEMBER 1964 3410 The Honourable the Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN (Kota Star Utara).
ENCHE' ABDUL RAHIM ISHAK (Singapore).

ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN GUL AHMAD MIANJI (Pasir Mas Hulu).

DATO' ABDULLAH BIN ABDULRAHMAN, Dato' Bijaya di-Raja (Kuala Trengganu Selatan).

CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak).

ENCHE' E. W. BARKER (Singapore).

ENCHE' CHEN WING SUM (Damansara).

DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).

DR GOH KENG SWEE (Singapore).

ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Kapar).

ENCHE' STANLEY HO NYUN KHIU, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' KAM WOON WAH, J.P. (Sitiawan).


DATU KHOO SIAK CHIEW, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' LEE KUAN YEW (Singapore).

ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim).

ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).

DATO' LING BENG SIEW, P.N.B.S.

(Sarawak).

DR LIM CHONG EU (Tanjong).

ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' ONG PANG BOON (Singapore).

TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Hilir Perak).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN WOK (Singapore).


ENCHE' S. RAJARATNAM (Singapore).

ENCHE' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM (Menglembu).

ENCHE' SOH AH TECK (Batu Pahat).

DATU DONALD ALOYSIUS STEPHENS, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka).

DR TOH CHIN CHYE (Singapore).

ENCHE' TOH THEAM HOCK (Kampar).

ENCHE' WEE TOON BOON (Singapore).

ENCHE' YONG NYUK LIN (Singapore).

PRAYERS (Mr Speaker in the Chair) ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS JALAN RAYA SUNGEI AYER SABAK BERNAM TAWAR, (PERAK) 1.
Dato' Haji Mustafa bin Haji Abdul Jabar (Sabak Bernam) bertanya kapada Menteri Kerja Raya, Pos dan Talikom ada-kah beliau sedar bahawa jalan raya Sungei Ayer Tawar yang sa-jauh lebeh kurang 15 batu itu pada masa ini belum lagi di-taroh batu, dan apa- bila musim hujan keadaan jalan itu sangat-lah burok, dan apabila musim panas jalan itu penoh dengan habok tanah merah.
sedar, ada-kah Jika Kerajaan dapat memberi pengakuan bahawa jalan tersebut dapat di-taroh batu pada tahun 1965 ini untok fa'edah 20,000 ra'ayat yang menggunakan jalan tersebut.

3411 3 DECEMBER 1964 3412 The Minister of Works, Posts and (Dato' V. T. Telecommunications Sambanthan): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tidak ketahui yang mana satu jalan yang di-maksudkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat.
Yang sa-benar-nya jalan dan satu daripada- ada dua nya ia-lah jalan Sungei Ayer Tawar sendiri dan satu lagi jalan Sungei Ayer Tawar ka-Parit Baru.

Kedua2 jalan ini ada-lah dalam jagaan Kerajaan Negeri Selangor.

Jalan Sungei Ayer Tawar itu telah pun di-sediakan dalam tahun 1963, tetapi peruntokan untok menaroh batu di-atas jalan ini belum lagi di- adakan.
Jalan Sungei Ayer Tawar ka- Parit Baru ada-lah ranchangan ber- panjangan dan peruntokan sa-banyak lebeh kurang $268,500 telah di-masok- kan dalam Anggaran Kerajaan Negeri Selangor bagi tahun 1965 untok projek ini.
Dato' Haji Mustafa bin Haji Abdul Jabar: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, oleh kerana Yang Berhormat Menteri yang berkenaan ta' bagitu faham mana satu yang saya maksudkan, suka saya mem- beri sadikit penerangan, bahawa yang saya maksudkan ia-lah jalan Sungei Ayer Tawar ya'ani daripada Sabak Bernam ka-Sungei Ayer Tawar dan jalan yang daripada Sungei Ayer Tawar ka-Parit Baru pada masa ini mem- bubohkan tanah merah pun belum lagi saya maksudkan Jadi, yang siap.
jalan Sungei Ayer ia-lah sekarang Tawar yang sa-jauh 15 batu.

Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: Jalan ini jagaan Kerajaan Negeri di-dalam Selangor.

PEJABAT POS DI-PEKAN SUNGEI AYER TAWAR—MENGADAKAN 2.
Dato' Haji Mustafa bin Haji Abdul Jabar bertanya kapada Menteri Kerja Raya, Pos dan Talikom ada-kah apa2 ranchangan Kerajaan bagi mendirikan satu Pejabat Pos di-Pekan Sungei Ayer Tawar, satu pekan yang menjadi pusat kampong2 yang di-sabelah barat Sabak Bernam yang mengandongi pendudok2 lebeh kurang 15,000 orang, dan me ngandongi enam buah kampong; jika ada boleh-kah Kerajaan memberi pengakuan ia-itu Pejabat ini akan di- dirikan dalam tahun 1965.
Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dukachita saya menyatakan ia-itu sa-buah Pejabat Pos di-Pekan Sungai Ayer Tawar tidak boleh di- bena dalam tahun 1965.

Walau bagai- mana pun projek untok mengadakan sa-buah Pejabat Pos di-Pekan Sungei Ayer Tawar telah di-shorkan untok di- masokkan ka-dalam Ranchangan Ke- majuan Malaysia, 1966-70.

PERHUBONGAN TALIPON KUALA LUMPUR-SABAK BERNAM 3.


Dato' Haji Mustafa bin Haji Abdul Jabar bertanya kapada Menteri Kerja Raya, Pos dan Talikom tidak-kah ada ranchangan Kerajaan mengadakan per Lumpur hubongan talipon Kuala ka-Sabak Bernam jalan Kuala Selangor yang lebeh dekat, yang mana suara2 boleh di-dapati dengan terang dan lebeh chepat lagi.
itu melalui Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, penyelidekan2 yang sentiasa bahawa di-jalankan menunjokkan panggilan talipon kapada dan daripada Sabak Bernam kebanyakan-nya melalui' Telok Anson yang lebeh dekat daripada Kuala Selangor.

Sabak Bernam ada- lah di-dalam kawasan Ibusawat2 dan perhubongan daripada Kuala Lumpur ka-Sabak Bernam melalui jalan micro wave ka-Ipoh dan sa-lepas itu melalui Telok Anson ka-Sabak Bernam.
Alat2 tambahan akan di-pasangkan pada akhir tahun ini dan ini bukan sahaja mengadakan lebeh serkit2 (circuits) di- antara Telok Anson dan Ipoh, tetapi membolehkan opereter2 di-Kuala Lum pur memusing terus opereter2 di-Telok Anson dan mereka pula memusing pelanggan2 di-Sabak Bernam.
Satu jalan, sa-lain daripada ini, daripada Kuala Lumpur ka-Sabak Bernam melalui Kuala Selangor dan Sungai Besar yang sudah di-adakan telah di- dapati tidak memuaskan saperti jalan yang melalui Ipoh dan juga mendatang- kan kelewatan.

FORM III PUPILS IN NATIONAL- TYPE SCHOOLS (Number in 1963, Number passed L.C.E., and Number promoted) 4.
Enche' C. V. Devan Nair asks the to state how Minister of Education 3413 3 DECEMBER 1964 3414 many Form III pupils were there in National-Type Schools in 1963, how many of them passed the Lower Certi ficate of Education in 1963, and how many were promoted to Form IV in 1964. di-Pertua, The Minister of Education (Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib): Tuan bilangan murid2 Yang Tingkatan III di- III atau Form Sekolah2 Menengah Jenis Kebangsaan ia-lah 27,451.

Bilangan tahun 1963 yang lulus L.C.E.


dalam tahun 1963 ia-lah 19,672.

Bilangan yang di-naikkan ka-Tingkatan ia-lah 15,782. tahun 1964 IV PENUNTUT2 TINGKATAN V DALAM SEKOLAH2 KEBANG SAAN DAN SEKOLAH2 JENIS KEBANGSAAN (Bilangan Pada 1963, Bilangan Yang Lulus F.M.C.

Atau Cambridge School Certificate dan Bilangan Yang Di-Naikkan Tingkatan VI) 5.
Enche' C. V. Devan Nair bertanya kapada Menteri Pelajaran: (i) berapa orang penuntut2 Ting katan V dalam Sekolah2 Ke bangsaan dalam tahun 1963, berapa orang yang lulus Peperek- saan Sijil Pelajaran Persekutuan atau Sijil Cambridge; dan berapa orang-kah yang di-terima masok ka-Darjah2 Tingkatan VI, (ii) berapa orang penuntut2 Ting katan V dalam Sekolah2 Jenis Kebangsaan dalam tahun 1963, berapa orang yang lulus Peperek- saan Sijil Pelajaran Persekutuan atau Sijil Cambridge; dan berapa orang-kah yang telah di-terima masok ka-Darjah2 Tingkatan VI.
Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, bilangan murid2 dalam Tingkatan V tahun 1963 ada-lah saperti berikut: Sekolah Kebangsaan 775 Sekolah Jenis Kebangsaan ... 11,193 Bilangan yang lulus FMC (Inggeris) tahun 1963 ... Bilangan yang lulus FMC (Melayu) tahun 1963 ... Bilangan yang lulus Cam bridge School Certificate ... 5,679 588 ... 6,620 Bilangan yang di-naikkan kapada Higher School Certificate Classes atau Tingkatan VI ada-lah saperti berikut: Science Arts Bahasa pengantar Melayu Bahasa pengantar Inggeris 60 ... 23 795 ... 891 Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, I see that there are only 60 from the Arts stream and 23 from the Science stream.
May I ask the Honour able Minister whether every effort will be made by the Government to see that more of these get into the Post School Certificate classes, in particular, those from the Science stream?

The disparity seems to be self- evident.

The disparity is so great that the Minister must be a very worried man if I were the Minister.

to me ini Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, bahasa di-mulakan pengantar Melayu hanya beberapa tahun yang lepas.
Dan bilangan ini ia-lah bilangan kumpulan murid2 yang pertama sa-kali yang melalui bahasa pengantar Melayu.

Bilangan ini akan bertambah daripada sa-tahun ka-satuhun.

RECRUITMENT OF QUALIFIED PSYCHIATRISTS to taken 6.


Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the Minis to state whether any ter of Health action has been recruit qualified psychiatrists in view of the deplorable shortage of such specialists at the Central Mental Hospital, Tan- jong Rambutan, where there is only one psychiatrist for over 4,000 patients for about and another at Tampoi 2,000 patients.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Mr Speaker, Sir, psychiatrists are difficult to find.
Among the many doctors from overseas who have applied for work in this country, no one is a qualified psychiatrist.

There are 5 psychiatrists in Malaya, 3 of whom are specialists and 2 clinical 3415 3 DECEMBER 1964 3416 specialists, and distributed as follows: they are at present Tanjong Rambutan (a) Central Mental Hospital, ... (b) Tampoi Mental Hospital ... (c) Penang General Hospital ... 1 2 2 Action is under way to post one of the psychiatrists at Penang the Central Mental Hospital, Tanjong Rambutan.
to One medical officer is at present undergoing a course leading to Diploma in Psychiatric Medicine in the United Kingdom.

My Ministry will award scholarships regularly so that more psychiatrists will be available.

But unfortunately local officers are not keen to take up psychiatry.

In 1964, one award was proposed but no one was prepared to take it.

In 1965, two awards will be made available, and I hope doctors will come forward to take these awards.
Br Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, many times in the past I have urged the Government to give more study leave awards for psychiatry.I am very glad that the Minister now proposes to give two awards next year.
Mr Speaker, Sir, as regards the one that was not taken up this year, is the Minister aware that budding specialists not only in psychiatry but in other unpopular specialities like orthopetic surgery, public health, sometimes meet, despite what the Minister says, with many difficulties placed in their way?

Will he make it easy for those who want to specialise in psychiatry?

Every effort should be made to encourage them to do psychiatry the moment they finish their housemanship.
Has any attempt ever been made to go and meet the young doctor, who has finished his housemanship, and say, "Look here, young man, psychiatry, after all, is a very good field in medicine"?

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Saaid: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of order.

Standing Order 24 (4) says: "A ques tion shall not be made the pretext for a debate."

The Honourable Member is making this question as a pretext for debate.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, it is far for me to try and cross swords with the Minister of Health.

I am merely asking him whether his Ministry is going into the root of the affair, i.e., going to meet the young doctor, as soon as he is qualified, and sell psychiatry to him, instead of most of his officers in the higher echelons sitting in air-conditioned rooms and expecting the young doctors.

They are wondering where they are going to be posted.
Mr Speaker: The Honourable Mem ber should confine his remarks to his supplementary question, please.

(Laugh ter).

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: This is a free country.

There is no need for us to cajole anyone.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, well, I agree with the Minister that this is a free country.

Will the Minister give an assurance to this House that every effort will be made to persuade and sell this idea of psychiatry and other unpopular the young doctors?
specialities to Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: I have sold the idea to them by offering them awards.

Circulars have been issued they are them but still reluctant to come forward; they won't bite!

(Laughter).

to USE OF AMBULANCE AT DISTRICT HOSPITAL, SUNGEI BAKAP, PROVINCE WELLESLEY 7.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the Minis ter of Health to state the uses to which the ambulance at the District Hospital at Sungei Bakap, Province Wellesley, is put and the days on which it is really available for the collection of the emergency cases, and whether Minister would take steps to see that the ambulance is used for the purposes intended and not for the transport of material or for administrative purposes.
Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: The single ambulance at Sungei Bakap District Hospital is also used for the purposes of— the conveyance between Sungei Bakap and Bukit Mertajam District Hospitals or 3417 3 DECEMBER 1964 3418 Penang General Hospital of patients referred for specialist treatment or con sultation; the conveyance of laboratory specimen to for Medical Institute Research at Penang; and the transport of drugs and stores when the from Penang.
the branch ambulance returns empty The ambulance is available for con veyance of emergency cases, full time throughout, except during such periods on Tuesdays to Fridays when it goes to Bukit Mertajam or Penang for the purposes I have mentioned.

However, during such periods, when the am bulance at Sungei Bakap Hospital is from not available, an ambulance Bukit Mertajam or Butterworth is always available should it be necessary to convey emergency cases the Sungei Bakap area.
in Every consideration will be given to the possibility of minimising the use of the ambulance for purposes other than the conveyance of patients.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, is the Minister aware that the use of an ambulance for any other purpose other than that of conveying patients is a misuse of such a vehicle?
the Is the Minister also aware that the absence of the ambulance on Tuesday alternative to Friday, despite arrangements that have been made, has proved a great handicap to the Hospital concerned in that one will have to wait for an ambulance from to Butterworth or Bukit Mertajam come from long distances to convey urgent cases.
In view of that, will the Minister give an undertaking that he will find other means to convey labora tory specimens or drugs and give the ambulance priority only for the con veyance of urgent cases.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Mr Speaker, Sir, this is a measure for economy in this country, especially at the present time when we have to make the best use of the ambulance.

The ambulance is convertible for use for other purposes as I have mentioned just now.
INQUIRY INTO DEATH OF ONE MANJI RANA AT MALACCA GENERAL HOSPITAL 8.

I)r Tan Chee Khoon asks the Minis ter of Health to state whether he has ordered an inquiry into the allegations that a patient named Manji Rana died at the Malacca General Hospital because he was neglected and not even examined from 6.30 a.m. when he was brought to the Hospital in a serious condition till 2.40 p.m. when he died.

If so, would the Minister state the result of the inquiry.
Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Mr Speaker, Sir, a Committee has been appointed to enquire into the com plaint.

The findings of this Committee are awaited.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, am I to understand that the Minis ter does not wish me to ask any ques tion until the enquiry is completed?

In that case, in fairness to the Minister concerned, I shall ask questions after the enquiry is completed.
I do not think I should ask him embarassing questions—perhaps at the next sitting to the House he will undertake of answer questions on this matter.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: He is right, Sir, and it is very kind of him to have thought of that.

(Laughter).

SARAWAK POLICE FORCE 9.


Abang Othman bin Haji Moasili asks the Minister of Home Affairs to state when the Government will bring the Sarawak Police Force line with the Royal Malaysian Police Force as the Force in Sarawak is still known as the Sarawak Constabulary and is using uniforms of the colonial days.
into the components of The Minister of Home Affairs (Dato' Dr Ismail bin Dato' Haji Abdul the Royal Malaysia Rahman): Sir, inter alia Police Act 1963 provides that the Royal Malaysia Police in the States of Malaya and each of the other States shall, until Parliament otherwise provides, be sub ject to the law applicable immediately before Malaysia Day.

For this reason, 3419 3 DECEMBER 1964 3420 the therefore, "Consta bulary" is the correct legal title of the Police Force in Sarawak.
expression As provided in the Sarawak Con stabulary Ordinance, 1955, it is my intention that there should be intro duced a single Police Act to replace the current four separate Police laws for four component Forces.

This ques tion is now being studied.

Action is in hand to provide personnel of all the four components of the Royal Malaysia Police with cap badges, consisting of the crest of the Royal Malaysia Police, and to issue buttons of splendid design some time in 1965.
Peak caps, as now used the States of Malaya and Singapore, will also be issued in 1965 to replace the present head-dress in Sarawak and Sabah.

in training With regard to uniform, a start has been made to issue to recruits whilst in in Kuala Lumpur with uniforms in accor dance with one common scale of issue and design.
the Police Depot in Abang Othman bin Haji Moasili: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soalan tam- bahan, dapat-kah Menteri Yang Ber- hormat memberi bayangan, ada-kah Pesuroh Jaya Polis Sarawak dalam masa dua tiga tahun kelak akan di-beri kapada pegawai tempatan?

Dato' Dr Ismail: Bukan soalan tam- bahan, itu soal lain.

BILL THE SUPPLY BILL, 1965 Second Reading Order read for resumption of debate on motion, "That the Bill be now read a second time" (2nd December, 1964).
that Mr Speaker: I would like to remind the House the continuation of yesterday's debate may carry on until 11.30 a.m. after which I think we will have to ask the Honourable Ministers to reply.

Therefore, it is very important that Honourable Members should try and cut short their speeches as much as possible, say, to ten minutes each Member.

I would also ask Honourable Members to pay special attention to the time so that as many Honourable Members will be able possible.
to speak as perhatian Dr Mahathir bin Muhamad (Kota Star Selatan): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tertarek benar dan menyokong anggaran belanjawan yang di-bentang- kan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Kewangan, sebab untok meninggikan lagi anggaran ini ada-lah kerana kon- frantasi.

Semua Ahli2 Yang Berhormat ia-itu kenaikan mesti-lah bersetuju chukai dan belanja kerajaan untok melawan konfrantasi ia-lah satu per- kara yang patut di-sokong penoh.
Tetapi di-dalam uchapan Yang Ber hormat Menteri Kewangan, saya chuma kurang mendapat ia-lah tentang soal ekonomi dalam belanja pentadbiran kerajaan.

Yang Berhormat Menteri telah menerangkan, umpama- nya, belanja untok Sekolah Aneka Jurusan yang di-kurangkan dari dua ratus million lebeh hingga sembilan puloh sahaja.
Saya pun ingin menarek perhatian kapada bangunan kerajaan lengkap dengan yang baharu yang jentera hawa dingin, barangkali hawa ini mustahak untok bekerja dingin lebeh giat, tetapi kalau betul, saya belum nampak bukti-nya.

Yang saya lebeh nampak dari biasa, oleh kerana pekerja2 itu kena selsema, selalu bekerja dalam office yang baharu berhawa dingin.

Saya ingin tahu berapa banyak dapat di-kurangkan belanja, jika tidak ada jentera hawa dingin dan cost of main tenance.
Ini satu chontoh sahaja, saya boleh hetong beberapa perkara yang boleh di-kurangkan belanja, kalau-lah pegawai2 di-ingatkan oleh Yang Ber hormat Menteri, tentang berchermat dalam belanja.

ia-lah Medical Leave Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ingin menegor sadikit berkenaan dengan Federal Establishment Office, yang menelan belanja sa-banyak 10 1/2 million pada tahun 1965.
Sa-telah mendengar banyak complain berkenaan dengan Jabatan ini, yang saya di-beritahu memegang bagitu kuat kapada kitab "General Order" sa-hingga mendatang- kan binasa kapada kerajaan dan pegawai2-nya.

Saya tahu, apabila sa- suatu Ministry ingin berbuat apa2 yang berfa'edah kalau di-kaji dengan sa- chara common sense kaki-tangan-nya, 3421 3 DECEMBER 1964 3422 gaji Hospital tentang perkara antara Kerajaan Pejabat ini selalu-lah ada General Orders-nya yang tidak membenarkan perkara2 itu di-lakukan.
Jawapan-nya ada selalu di-mulut oleh pegawai2 itu, ia-lah "Against the General Order".

Umpama-nya, berkenaan dengan soal Assistant.

tangga itu di- Rundingan mulakan dengan jalan, Hospital CUEPAC.

Sa-paroh Assistant Union telah menarek diri tidak me- daripada CUEPAC, dan ngakui sa-barang perjanjian yang di- buat antara Kerajaan dengan CUEPAC.

Hospital Assistant Union meminta supaya tawaran tangga gaji itu di-buat dengan Union dan bukan dengan CUEPAC.
Saya ia-itu Kementerian Kesihatan bersetuju, tetapi Federal Establishment Office me- nentang sa-barang perjanjian dengan Hospital Assistant Union, tidak sah, tidak lama lagi saya di-beritahu Hospital Assistant akan mengambil Strike ballot, dan kalau- lah ada huru-hara dalam Kementerian Kesihatan, yang patut memikul ke- salahan ia-lah Federal Establishment Office.

Saya rayuan berkenaan dengan tambahan gaji, ke- naikan pangkat dan sa-bagai-nya di- terlibat.
Saya ini mana berharap 10 1/2 million yang kita akan beri kapada Pejabat ini, akan men- datangkan fa'edah bagi negara ini.

juga menerima di-beritahu Jabatan dengan alasan Kementerian Pelajaran saperti biasa akan menelan belanja yang besar, ini menunjokkan keberatan yang kita letakkan tentang menuntut ilmu, tetapi juga di- polisi pelajaran mesti-lah tujuan bentok supaya sesuai dengan aneka perpaduan ini.
keturunan di-dalam Malaysia orang2 antara Kita dapati sekarang bahawa be- berapa aliran sekolah yang berasaskan kapada keturunan murid2.

Dengan ada-nya aliran2 ini, kita dapati budak2 yang otak-nya maseh boleh di-bentok oleh environment-nya di-tahan dari pada mengamalkan per paduan.

Budak2 China di-Sekolah China, budak2 Melayu di-Sekolah Melayu dan India di-Sekolah India dan sa-bagai-nya.
Boleh jadi budak2 ini akan besar, bukan sahaja tidak tahu adat dan kebudayaan kaum yang lain2, tetapi dengan tidak tahu ber- fahaman baik2, melainkan dengan bangsa-nya sendiri.

ini sekolah2 Saya ingin bertanya, apa-kah sebab- nya yang tidak di- integrate-kan?

Apa-kah sebab-nya yang kita tidak boleh mengadakan multi- stream school di-mana semua bangsa, budak2 ini boleh bergaul dan ber- champor sa-kurang2-nya di-masa ke- lepasan.
Bukan-kah ini akan membena perasaan perpaduan dan akan menguat- kan pengertian di-antara kaum2 di- Malaysia ini.

dan tangga dengan sharat2 yang muda Berkenaan dengan Kementerian Ke sihatan, saya ingin menarek perhatian dengan chara memikirkan yang ada kapada pegawai2 di-dalam Kementerian ini.

Saya yakin saya tidak salah, kalau saya katakan di-sini fikiran ia-itu telah di-bekukan oleh itu mereka penjajah dahulu.

Umpama-nya ber pemilehan kenaan bidan2.


Oleh kerana sharat2 bagi orang2 di-Eropah menetapkan bagi budak2 belum di-pileh menjadi berumah Pelateh Bidan.

Di-sini juga di-pileh anak2 dara yang berumor 18 tahun.

Budak2 ini pula di-pileh dari pekan2.

Sa-lepas di-lateh budak2 muda ini dari pekan, maka di-hantar ka-kampong2.
Kalau kita teringat yang kanak2 selalu di-lahirkan di-antara pukul dua pagi sa-hingga pukul lima pagi, kita tentu faham, sebab apa, bidan2 ta' mahu dan ta' dapat di-hantar ka-kampong2, tetapi sharat2 memileh bidan2 ini ta' dapat di-tukarkan, kerana sharat2 ini ada-lah berlebel "Made in England."
sudah beku dan Fikiran pegawai keadaan di-sekeliling ta' berbekas di- otak mereka lagi, saperti mana General juga Order tidak boleh di-tukar— juga, walau bagaimana pun bagitu sharat2 dahulu, fa'edah-nya kurang sharat2 penjajah—ta' dapat di-tukar; biar kita ta' ada bidan, asalkan kita ada sharat2 kita.
Saya berharap chara fikiran yang kolot ini dapat di-hapus- kan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Kesihatan yang akan mengarahkan perbelanjaan yang kita luluskan di-sini, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ingin menyentoh sadikit berkenaan dengan Ministry of Information and Broad casting, ia-itu saya menarek perhatian 3423 3 DECEMBER 1964 3424 kapada satu surat dalam surat khabar yang bertanya, apa sebab Radio dan Taliveshen Malaysia mempertuankan orang2 dari luar negeri?
Sebab apa- kah orang2 dari luar negeri di-panggil tuan?

Ada-kah ini satu lagi dari bekas2 ini ber- zaman penjajah?

Ada-kah ma'ana pegawai2 Radio dan Taliveshen maseh berasa yang kita ini hamba dan orang2 daripada luar negeri ia-lah tuan?

ingin lebeh kurang akan menimbulkan itu mengambil masa Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ingin menyentoh tentang Pejabat Town and Country Planning.
Pegawai dalam pejabat ini bukan sahaja membuat plan dan atoran2 yang lebeh sesuai di- Australia daripada di-Malaysia, tetapi plan2 ini di-tahan sa-hingga dua tahun.

Kalau semua di-tahan dua tahun, ini tidak perasaan churiga, tetapi kadang2 sa-belum sahaja genap satu bulan, plan2 ini di-luluskan.

Saya tahu, apa-kah sebab-nya satu plan mengambil satu bulan dan sa- satu plan yang lebeh macham kurang sa-macham dua tahun.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, suggoh pun Anggaran Belanjawan Kerajaan Pusat ini tidak ada kena-mengena dengan Negeri2 tahu dalam Persekutuan, Negeri2 ada menerima bantuan dari pada Kerajaan Pusat.

Dari itu, patut juga kita di-sini tahu, sunggoh pun kita tidak dapat berbinchang apa-kah ter- jadi di-dalam Negeri2 di-Persekutuan.

Kita baharu2 tentang ini kekurangan wang Kerajaan Kelantan.

Kita dengar yang perkara ini di- napikan dan juga tudohan baharu di- buat dari pehak lain.
Dalam huru-hara kewangan cherita jambatan sa-kali lagi timbul.

Kalau- lah Rumah berbahagia ini mesti me- luluskan grants bagi Negeri2, patut-lah keterangan di-beri berkenaan dengan kedudokan di- negeri Kelantan ini.

Kita patut-lah tahu, ada-kah sa-benar-nya perkara misappropriation yang kita dengar, kita patut-lah tahu apa-kah tindakan yang patut di-ambil dan apa-kah tindakan yang akan di-ambil.
sa-benar-nya di-Kelantan tetapi kita dengar yang ini, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, confrontasi menjadi sebab kenaikan chukai, tetapi tidak akan menjadi bagitu kenaikan di-Sabah pertolongan development tinggi, jikalau development juga tidak berkehendakkan belanja yang banyak.

Sa-bahagian besar dari development ini ia-lah dan Sarawak.

Negeri2 ini ketinggalan di- belakang, oleh kerana policy penjajah British dahulu, yang chuma memerah kekayaan dengan tidak memberi keun- tongan kapada negeri2 Sarawak dan Sabah.
Kita tahu, kita ada Perjanjian Pertahanan dengan British.

Perjanjian ini ia-lah oleh kerana negeri kita kechil dan berkehendakkan kapada perto longan tetapi di-samping mempertahan- kan negara kita, British juga dapat menjaga British interest di-negara ini.

Bagi pandangan saya, patut-lah British memberi lebeh banyak untok pertahanan kita.

Sa- takat yang saya tahu, pertolongan ini sangat sadikit.
Mengikut siaran dalam akhbar pada hari kelmarin, sa-banyak $48 million sahaja yang di-beri sa- hingga sekarang, dan baharu2 ini saya mendengar pula yang Britain chuba menolak bebanan ini kapada Austra lia dan New Zealand.
Kerajaan baharu British ia-lah Kerajaan yang sedar atas serba-serbi, terutama atas kesalahan chara2 pekerjaan yang di-lakukan oleh Kerajaan British yang dahulu2, kalau- ini sa-benar, patut-lah Kerajaan British sekarang pikul lebeh banyak lagi dari beban pertahanan supaya Malaysia dapat menjalankan dengan lebeh giat lagi tentang development di-wilayah2 ia-itu yang di-aniaya oleh British Sabah dan Sarawak.
yang Tuan Yang di-Pertua, berkenaan dengan soal Common Market, saya hairan kenapa Pulau Pinang maseh menjadi halangan.

Orang2 di-Pulau Pinang, terutama orang2 yang berniaga, ada-lah hidup dengan mewah, kerana policy British dahulu.

Barang2 tidak di- kenakan chukai dan orang2 yang ber- gaji sama lebeh senang di-Pulau Pinang daripada di-daratan Malaysia.

Per- niagaan di-daratan di-Alor Star—tempat saya, ta' dapat hidup, oleh kerana barang2 yang murah dari pada Pulau Pinang.
Juga Kerajaan rugi bermillion lari dari ringgit kerana pada hasil chukai.

Ada-kah sesuai yang Pulau Pinang ini di-beri special pri sa-hingga progress di-sabuah vilege Malaysia tergendala.

saperti 3425 3 DECEMBER 1964 3426 Saya harap Yang Berhormat Menteri Kewangan dapat menimbangkan bukan sahaja perasaan orang2 di-Pulau Pinang tetapi juga orang2 yang sembilan sa- tengah juta lebeh lagi di-Malaysia, apa- bila memikirkan atas chukai dan belan- jawan.
Kalau orang2 di-Pulau Pinang tidak mahu kapada chukai patut-lah peruntokan bagi Pulau Pinang itu di- kurangkan.

isteri ada-lah Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soal separate rae- assessment bagi nyentoh diri saya dan tidak patut-lah saya keluarkan di-sini.

Tetapi saya shak ia-itu P.A.P.

yang berchakap di- banyak-nya atas ini dengan kasehan bukan-lah dengan kerana Serangoon Garden beias Estate barangkali perasaan ini me- nyentoh kapada diri ahli2 P.A.P.

Singa- pura sendiri.


kapada soal yang sa-orang Tuan Yang di-Pertua, konfrantasi ia-lah sebab kenaikan chukai.

Saya ini kerana sa- menyokong kenaikan bagai sayangkan kapada negara sendiri, korban yang sa-macham ini menjadi korban yang rengan.

Saya berharap Yang Ber hormat Menteri Kewangan akan me- megang tegoh kapada chukai2 baharu yang di-buat oleh-nya.

Kita tahu ten- tangan yang di-buat oleh P.A.P.

ia-lah chuma kerana P.A.P.

ingin membentok jenis baharu kapada orang2 yang dahulu P.A.P.
telah meaniayakan ia-itu white collar workers dan sa-bagai-nya.

Juga P.A.P.

yang sekarang di-sokong dan di-dukong oleh millioner nampak- nya berusaha untok memelihara hak2 orang kaya.

Dari itu chubaan P.A.P.

menggunakan Trade Union dan Cham bers of Commerce dan juga jentera surat khabar luar negeri, patut-lah di- tentang sa-habis2 kuat.

Belanjawan ini rengan di-pikul oleh orang2 yang miskin dan belanjawan ini mesti-lah di-terima oleh semua orang dan di- luluskan oleh Dewan ini, terima kaseh.
Enche' Ong Kee Hui (Sarawak): Mr Speaker, Sir, I shall be very brief as I only wish to deal with one point which, if I am not mistaken, has not been made by other speakers.

Having arrived at the House only yesterday morning to participate in this Budget meeting, Mr Speaker, Sir, I did not have the benefit of hearing the Ho in nourable Finance Minister's Budget speech, nor have I been able to follow very closely the observations made by many Honourable Members the course of this debate.
I, therefore, rise with some diffidence because so much has been said already, there is pro bably nothing new that I can contri bute to the debate; but I feel that having just come from Sarawak, it is my duty to communciate to this House the grave concern with which the tax proposals of the Minsiter of Finance have been received by many people in Sarawak, such as the payroll tax, the turnover tax and the tax on crown corks, to mention only the more con items.
While appreciating troversial the Finance Minister's difficult task of finding more money to meet increased expenditure on defence, on the expan ding social services and development, the general view held is that there are perhaps better and more equitable ways of raising if additional taxation is required—which I do not doubt.
The fear expressed by various speakers that the tax proposals will fall more on the lower and middle income groups and will also have a very adverse effect on small marginal industries struggling for existence in the face of competition is shared by many people.

These points have been very eloquently and adequately dealt with by previous speakers and I do not wish to repeat what has been said, nor do I wish to get involved in the cross fire between Singapore on the one hand and in this debate.
the mainland on this money the other The point I wish to make is that the unsophisticated people in the ulu will not understand the technicalities of the arguments on the economics or the politics involved in these controversies.

They will judge things, Sir, by how it affects their pockets or their lives.
I would therefore urge the Government to seriously consider the psychological impact of some of these tax proposals on a lot of unsophisticated people in the ulu who suddenly find that the cost of living has gone up and their lives are also affected in more ways than one.

Will the revenue that will accrue the adverse reaction compensate for 3427 3 DECEMBER 1964 3428 that will result?
To cite a simple case, for instance, a man in the ulu walking into the nearest bazaar and finding that he has to pay perhaps an additional five cents or more for his small luxury of a bottle of aerated water.

To us who think in terms of dollars, this may sound trivial, but to those who count their cents this can have a very serious implication.

I would in conclusion, Sir, in all sincerity urge the Govern ment to reconsider these proposals in the light of the representations which have been made.
Enche' Geh Chong Keat (Penang Utara): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to compliment the Honourable Minis ter of Finance for his courage and fortitude in preparing this critical year's Budget.

He does not expect any compli ment for discharging his heavy res ponsibility in preparing this national Budget, especially during this critical period which our nation is facing, but he has the satisfaction of serving our nation and seeing that the need is being complied with.
We must appre ciate the problems of the Honourable Minister of Finance in exploring ways and means to raise funds to keep pace with our national progress and defence.

Later in the debate, perhaps, we may come across requests from various States and constituencies for develop ments and facilities and the Ministers, of course, will just refer them to the Honourable Minister of Finance, and the Members making those requests can always judge by their gesture smiles.
Sir, we have to realise that all over the world the trend is towards an increase in the cost of Government and a certain amount of increase in taxation has been necessitated by the growth of the Government's national development programmes, the debts, the inflation; and we must not forget that for the seven years of Merdeka we have launched many crash programmes for rural development, education and many other progressive developments for uplifting the rural standard of living and rural economy.
All these progressive improvements have won the admiration for our nation and for our Prime Minister from universal visiting leaders.

These universal com pliments have, very unfortunately, also drawn the attention and interest of our neighbour, the only President for life under a guided democracy.
Therefore, misfortune has fallen upon our country in the form of his deter to crush Malaysia in his mination confrontation, I am sure the National Solidarity Week has established our people's and our citizens' determination to withstand it.

Therefore, expenditure for defence forms a large portion of the Budget.
Sir, many Members of this House have expressed their views, many of which are very constructive and res ponsible, and very fortunately, there were very few who have made very irresponsible comments.

However, Sir, one can notice the concerted action in making personal of attacks on the Honourable Minister of Finance, so much so that one has even tried to write an epitaph for the Honourable Minister of Finance.

the P.A.P.
the P.A.P.

Sir, we all know that it always hurts when one is pinched in the pocket, either by direct or indirect taxation.

So, I would like to say that the structure of this taxation may not be very sound, and there may be some flaws and loopholes.

Therefore, it has drawn some fear, some perplexity, and also a certain amount of dismay from the general public.
The businessmen realise that high taxes are unavoid able to meet the country's defence and development costs, especially when facing an our nation is presently Indonesian emergency because of aggression, and that the Government must raise more revenue to meet these extraordinary requirements and com mitments.

Sir.

the public is very worried about the indirect taxation which can be passed on to the consumers in the lower income group.
Hence, I would like to compliment the Minister of Commerce and Industry for his timely announcement in the Press that he and the Honourable Minister of Finance would take appropriate action against those opportunists who try to milk the consumers even though the duties for 3429 3 DECEMBER 1964 3430 Industry the commodities have not been in creased or affected.
I would recommend the Honourable Minister of that Finance and the Honourable Minister of Commerce and should jointly explore what positive action to be taken to prevent such a thing happening, because if it happens, it will always bring fear and adverse response from the public towards the Budget, thus allowing the Opposition to take political advantage over it at the expense of the Honourable Minister of Finance.

the business Sir, I wish also to convey the feel ings of circle.
The businessmen feel that there has been a violation of the universal principle that no man should be taxed more than once, and that he should not be taxed when he makes no profit out example, a of his business.

For businessman may have a gross earning of about $100,000 and yet suffers a loss and it would not be correct that he should be taxed and incur further losses as a result of him first being taxed when showing no profit.

just employees.
just employees.

This are to maintain Sir, the payroll tax of two per cent has drawn fear from the working class their employers, of exploitation by who have already contributed to the Employees Provident Fund, and many of them are still employing their staff in spite of running at a loss.
In Penang, there are many firms which, though still affected by confrontation, carrying on, their goodwill and to give assistance to their faithful imposition may result in retrenchment and curb the future expansion programmes of companies and business houses and in turn may affect the employment of the working class.
I most sincerely hope that when the Honourable Minis ter of Finance replies, he will direct his answer to these problems which affect the general public and the lower income group as a whole, in order to dispel their fear, rather than replying to the political questions raised by the Opposition, thereby allowing them to suit their political ends.
We know, Sir, that taxation in what is always unpopular, but ever form let us hope that these new taxes on business concerns and indirect taxes the which could be passed over to consumers will not be permanent but treated as a "confrontation" tax that requires the extra effort of our citizens and people staying in this country.
Sir, I feel that I will be failing in my duty if I do not say something about the the common market and Penang free port, especially when I have been confronted by my own colleagues on this side of the House.

Sir, I have already spoken about this subject in the previous House—the problems of Penang State, especially the Island of Penang, in our struggle to maintain the free port status.
Sir, to understand the need of the people for maintaining the free port status of Penang Island is the geographical position of the Island.

I would not say, as my Honourable colleague for Kota Star Selatan had mentioned, that because we have benefited during the colonial days we must carry on en joying it: in other words, we must not enjoy what our grandfathers have handed down to us.
to understand Sir, much as we like the privilege extended to the Island, of Penang, we would not deny that the British were wrong when they established the free port of Penang 180 years ago.

When we entered the Federation of Malaya the people of Penang were very con cerned.

Offhand I am not able to ex press the terms or conditions or views as expressed, or put forth, at that period, but I can say this: Sir, as a nation we have all enjoyed the progress.
It is because that Malaya had been established as a unit that it would not be wrong to establish also an entrepot centre for trading, and it would not be wrong if the other part of Malaya, that is the Mainland, felt so strongly it set up about Penang Island another Port of Swettenham.
Sir, we do not grouse over this, but we are very concerned at the constant report made by the Chairman of the Common Market: he says that the common market will not affect the entrepot trade of Singa pore or Penang; they should be able trade with a to carry out entrepot that port port—the 3431 3 DECEMBER 1964 3432 free port zone well set up.
Sir, with this statement and the invitation of the to Honourable Minister of Finance Penang Island to give up their free port status, I have to say that we in Penang Island welcome the invitation of the Honourable Minister of Finance but we would like him to understand that it must be a sincere and a kind invitation with all the programmes and plannings placed before us—we would not to be one invitation similar to that of the spider to the fly— "Come the spider to the fly."
Sir, to invite us you must first understand our problems.

It is not just an invitation which we know, and there is some fear because we know that although Penang enjoys a free port status all applications for imports must be submitted the Ministry of Commerce; thereby that is the beginning to my parlour", says .

.

.. like the to Mr Speaker: Order, order.

I thought we came to a gentlemen's agreement just now that the Honourable Member should confine his speech to not more than 15 minutes.
Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Since I have been made to speak about the free port status I have got to answer.

I hope you will allow me the privilege, Sir.

Mr Speaker: But you have already spoken for 15 minutes.

Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Well, Sir, to cut short my speech subject may be very try the I will though important.

Sir, it would be wrong to compare Penang Island with Singapore.

The Singapore Government had been plan ning many years back.
They had planned to industrialise because of the enormous amount of unemployment and also because they had to cope with the ever exploding population problem.

After industrialisation, of which they completed one section of their pro gramme, they started to look for a common market.

But, have we had such a programme for the Island of Penang?

I am sorry to say that we do not have.


In the State of Penang, very unfortunately, we are separated by a channel, and though the channel may only be a mile but it makes a lot of difference between the Island and that portion of the Mainland i.e.

Province Wellesley.
Province Wellesley.

that Island is Penang Sir, we have been made to under stand, at one critical period, that we have got to decide either to industri alise should industrialise, because of its good har bour, or to give up the industrialisation plan to Butterworth on the Mainland and concentrate on tourism and there by retain the free port status of Penang Island.

But, very unfortunately, all these programmes or plannings have gone haywire.
Sir, we would welcome the Honour able Minister of Finance let us know whether he agrees to set aside a certain amount of money to help Penang to industrialise.

Then, after the industrialisation, we will come in to join the common market.
to the say Sir, this: to say newly-opened that Penang has no place or no proper site for industriali sation would be wrong, because we know there are many acres of land that had been reclaimed and also that there is plenty of land from Jelutong right up to Glugor and also the land adjoining road between Ayer Itam and Relau.

All these areas of land could be utilised industrialisation.
Sir, above all, I for businessmen, the must because of the pressure and the strong hold put upon them, have had no choice: it is Hobson's choice to them to join the common market.

Among the residents of the Island of Penang there is fear and anxiety because of the extra cost of living.
Though we in Penang may like to claim the privilege that Penang Island is a free port, as it to us, we had been handed down would like to say that we are prepared the to common market on join that you provide us with condition industrialisation, so the people that of Penang Island can get more jobs and employment and can raise their standard of living and income, so that the aggregate amount of incomes of their families may offset the extra burden that they have to carry when 3433 3 DECEMBER 1964 3434 like I hope they join the common market, or give up their free port status.
Sir, that is the feeling of the people there, and it that is not to go they would the Central Government, or against would like to claim this extra pri vilege—it is just a way of life to them.

However, the Honourable Minister of Finance can convince the people, and can convince them not only in words but by planning, they will positive planning, so that be prepared to give up the free port status of Penang Island.
Perhaps, the Honourable Minister of Finance can the initiate a body to study the Island of economic planning of Penang and the possibility of industri alisation to that part of the State of Penang.

Thank you, Sir.

Enche' Mustapha bin Ahmad (Tanah Merah): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya juga merasa sukachita dalam mem- bahathkan Anggaran Belanjawan kita dalam tahun 1965 yang ada di-hadapan ini.
Memang, Tuan kita pada hari Yang di-Pertua, Anggaran Belanjawan yang ada di-hadapan kita pada hari ini, bagitu-lah dia kesanggupan ke- adaan politik yang dapat kita per- mainkan pada tahun 1965 yang akan datang ini; walau bagaimana pun, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kita tidak dapat menentukan, apa-kah di-dalam tahun 1965 yang akan kita hadapi ini tentang peristiwa2 politik yang akan berlaku, sama ada di-dalam negeri kita sendiri, atau pun dari luar negeri.
Sebab deficit yang bertambah lebeh banyak pada tahun 1965 ini tidak hanya sa- kadar confrontasi dari Indonesia sa- mata2.

Saya perchaya itu ada-lah aki- bat daripada Pembangunan kita yang hams kita teruskan lagi untok men- chapai satu taraf negara yang benar2 taraf-nya di- dapat hidup sa-bagai negara yang telah merdeka.
semangat yang Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dengan sebab keperchayaan kita pada diri kita sen tidak diri, dengan pernah hapus2 dalam diri kita, bahawa chara negara kita mesti hidup dan kita mesti hidup dengan sebab semangat ke perchayaan itu-lah saya rasa walau pun deficit-nya bertambah pada tahun ini, keperchayaan negara luar pada negara chahaya tetap, dan orang kita lain ada-lah memperchayai Tanah Melayu dan Malaysia pada masa hadapan ada-lah sangat2 mempunyai yang baik.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, walau pun demikian, sa-telah kita melihat bagai mana semangat2 yang telah di-tun- jokkan di-dalam Dewan ini, kita mahu sa-buah negara Malaysia yang aman dan ma'amor; kita mahu semua ra'ayat Malaysia menjadi ra'ayat yang hanya satu, berpadu dalam semua hal, tetapi kalau-lah maseh perkara itu ada hanya dalam tujuan tidak dapat di-laksana- kan dengan baik, mungkin perkara itu akan menjadi harapan yang akan hanchor tidak berapa lama lagi.

itu.
sama Ini-lah Kalau kita rata kapada tidak membentok satu system pelajaran yang dapat mem- berikan semua pehak, kalau tidak dapat kita mem bentok sa-berapa lekas jurang antara yang ada dengan yang tidak ada supaya lebeh sempit dan lebeh dekat lagi, kalau tidak kita mengator chara2 lain lagi yang ada dalam negara kita supaya dapat meharmonisekan semua bangsa dalam negeri ini, kita akan mengalamai sa-bagai negara yang di- namakan Cyprus satu semangat yang rasa saya walau pun kami daripada party Islam sa-Tanah Melayu berlainan dengan party pehak Kerajaan tetapi semangat kami, kami mahu melihat Tanah Melayu atau pun Malaysia aman ma'amor, hidup ra'ayat- nya dengan sejahtera.
Tetapi kami berharap-lah pelaksanaan di-dalam kita ini dan chara kita untok men- chapai tujuan kita itu benar2 pehak Kerajaan berkorban, sanggup hanya baharu untok mendirikan untok negara Malaysia dan tidak payah lagi timbul semangat2 yang ada satu pehak kapada satu pehak yang lain mahu dengan chara berfikir-nya sendiri.

Kalau itu-lah chara-nya maka harapan daripada semua orang yang mahu kapada berlainan itu sendiri akan hanchor pada satu hari dan kita negara akan mengalami Cyprus yang kedua.
Sakian-lah, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya mengharapkan dan saya berdo'a moga2 semenjak daripada hari ini sampai masa hada sa-bagai pan mesti-lah kita hidup tetapi kita orang yang berpolitik sa-buah negara 3435 3 DECEMBER 1964 3436 benar dalam perjuangan kita dan kita benar dengan diri kita sendiri, sakian- lah, terimah kaseh.

lalu Ishak Enche' Aziz bin (Muar Dalam): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, be- rakan2 saya berapa hari yang telah banyak berchakap membidas parly P.A.P.
yang mana saya rasa ini sudah chukup memberikan kesedaran kapada party itu dan segala tembelang- nya telah nampak dan nyata kapada ra'ayat negeri kita ini.

saya apa-kah perkataan Sekarang saya suka hendak me- ngalehkan pula pandangan kapada Party Islam sa-Tanah Melayu dan saya sangat tertarek hati atas satu sikap yang telah di-terangkan oleh wakil daripada Bachok sa-malam ia- itu berkehendakkan kita menyerang negara Indonesia.
Saya sa-rupa tidak perchaya ini benar2 telah di-keluarkan oleh wakil itu kerana ini pada pandangan saya satu merbahaya yang sangat besar.

sikap yang di-tunggu2 oleh Ini-lah rijim Soekarno bagaimana yang di- katakan oleh saya daripada rakan Seberang sa-malam.

Jadi sa-telah kita mengishtiharkan dan me nyerang negeri mereka maka akan hilang-lah keperchayaan dunia kapada kita.

Maka yang timbul Malaysia ini- lah yang bersalah.


Segala perbuatan kita sa-lama ini untok mempertahan- kan negara kita ini lenyap semua sa- jikalau bagini-lah, Tuan kali.

Jadi, tidak sa-kali2 saya Yang di-Pertua, menyangka bahawa Ahli Yang Ber- hormat daripada Bachok itu salah sa- orang ejen daripada Soekarno dan saya minta Menteri Keselamatan Dalam Negeri perhati2-lah sadikit hal ini.
perang Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya juga hendak berchakap terhadap sikap party PAS—Party Islam sa-Tanah Melayu terhadap berkenaan dengan menentang dasar konfrantasi dan juga penerimaan- nya kapada dasar Kerajaan Pusat berkenaan dengan ranchangan pem- bangunan luar bandar.
Atas soal ini, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya sa-orang merasa ragu2 dan maseh belum dapat memberikan keyakinan sa-penoh-nya atau pun churiga atas sikap baharu oleh PAS itu kerana saya maseh ingat laku beberapa orang segala gerak yang di-lafadzkan pemimpin party itu di-masa yang lalu khas-nya di-masa Dewan Parlimen kita yang pertama dahulu, uchapan dasar party-nya oleh ketua party-nya itu di-dalam Parlimen dahulu dari satu Sidang kapada satu saya Sidang Belanjawan, meneliti segala uchapan2 itu jika di- bandingkan dengan uchapan2 ketua ini, saya boleh-lah party katakan di- perbezaan-nya katakan antara bumi dengan langit.
itu hari sa-telah boleh juga beliau lagi yang Kalau dahulu uchapan ketua PAS itu dalam Parlimen boleh-lah di- katakan sangat chondong kapada ke- hendak2 Soekarno umpama-nya tidak dengan konsep Malaysia bersetuju tetapi dia mahu Malaysia ini di- satukan menjadi Melayu Raya.

Ke- mudian tidak mahu tentera2 asing di-negeri kita ini dan banyak perkara2 semua perkataan2-nya itu bagaimana per kataan2 dan nada2 yang di-lafadzkan oleh pemimpin Soekarno di-masa itu juga.
Tetapi sekarang dan di-masa pada hari ini sa-telah pemimpin2 PAS itu tidak dapat dudok lagi di-dalam Parlimen ini maka sikap itu segera telah di-tukar.

Apa-kah party PAS ini menjalankan?

Dasar mengikut dasar tuboh parti-nya atau pun mengikut kechenderongan sa-saorang pemimpin sa-lama dudok itu, kerana mereka dalam Parlimen sa-kali semua ini pemimpin ini dapati lain orang lain nafsu-nya, dasar party di-tolak ka-tepi, bagaimana yang kita dengar pada hari ini.
Apa-kah agak-nya PAS sekarang sudah angkoh segala pemimpin2-nya dahulu menyebabkan pengaroh-nya dan sudah merosot ra'ayat jelata Kelantan menderita dengan sebab2 itu, kemudian daripada itu sa-telah mereka sedar maka ba' kata pepatah Melayu, "sesat di-hujong jalan kembali ka-pangkal jalan".
Atau pun, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sokongan tentangan kapada dasar konfrantasi itu pura2 di-berikan kapada Kerajaan Pusat sebab mereka hendak melindongi tembelang dan telatah beberapa orang pemimpin mereka yang chenderong tetangga yang men- kapada negara konfrantasikan kita.

Dengan tujuan supaya parti-nya tidak akan menerima nasib saperti anggota2 Socialist Front sifat2 sedar 3437 3 DECEMBER 1964 3438 dan lain2 lagi.
Saya patut mengingat- kan kapada Kerajaan Pusat kita, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, supaya berhati2 di- dalam soal ini, kerana nampak-nya sa- telah mendengar kata2 manis dari PAS, parti itu konon-nya sudah bertukar sikap maka dengan tidak ragu2 lagi Kerajaan Pusat telah menyurahkan banyak peruntokan2 kapada negeri Kelantan.

AN HONOURABLE MEMBER : (rises).

itu telah Pusat sa-lama Enche' Aziz bin Ishak: Saya tidak benarkan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, masa tidak ada.
Saya penoh perchaya dan berharap wang yang di-keluarkan oleh Kerajaan kapada Kerajaan Kelantan itu bukan-lah bererti Kera jaan Pusat tertawan dengan pujok rayu dan kata2 manis pemimpin itu di- tetapi peruntokan PAS churahkan ada-lah dengan hasrat yang jujor dan berseh untok menolong ra'ayat Kelantan yang ini tidak dapat merasai nikmat kemer- sama2 dekaan yang mereka semua memperjuangkan-nya.

Kekechiwaan itu hendak merasai nikmat mereka benar2 yang dahulu-nya di-sebabkan sipat2 keangkohan parti itu.
Dan yang memerentah masa sekarang saya ra'ayat Kelantan tentu-lah telah sedar bagai- mana kejujoran dan kebenaran Kera jaan Perikatan terhadap kepentingan ra'ayat jelata seluroh-nya.

Dalam hal itu, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya sa-kali lagi menarek perhatian Kerajaan Pusat kita supaya berhati2 di-dalam menim- bangkan segala pemberian kerana saya takut bak kata pepatah Melayu "mulut di-suap pisang buntut di-kait onak".
rasa mereka ada-lah Ipoh rakan Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sekarang saya sukia mengalehkan pandangan saya sadikit kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat sa-malam daripada kerana saya barangkali daripada ini saya suka seberang sana, hari mengemukakan pendapat saya dari seberang sini pula berkenaan dengan berkehendakkan di-kaji sa-mula hak2 istimewa orang2 Melayu.
Saya me- nyokong dengan atas pendapat rakan2 saya dari seberang sana, ia-itu dalam masa kita meng- hadapi anchaman2 dari luar yang ini dalam masa kita merunching sa-penoh-nya tetap Ipoh mesti-lah hendak menchapai chita2 menjadikan Malaysia ini aman dan ma'amor, maka soal ini jangan-lah di-ulang2 atau pun di-ungkit2 lagi.
Ahli Yang Berhormat dari sedar bahawa semua orang Melayu tidak ada negeri- nya yang lain daripada ini-lah bumi- nya yang kami pijak, dan ini-lah langit yang kami junjong, kami mahu hak2 kami itu di-pelihara dengan sa-baik2- nya dan tinggal dalam Per- lembagaan negara kita ini, kerana ini- lah satu2-nya harapan kami bahawa bangsa Melayu dapat hidup bersama2 atau pun dapat bersama2 menikmati ke- bahgiaan hidup dalam tanah ayer-nya sendiri, yang berdaulat dan merdeka ini.
Oleh yang demikian saya suka memberi amaran bagaimana amaran yang di-beri oleh rakan2 saya kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Ipoh, dan siapa juga, baik daripada kawan atau hak2 lawan yang berkehendakkan istimewa orang Melayu yang ada sadikit dalam Perlembagaan itu lagi2 di-usek dan di-tegor sa-lagi darah di-bumi orang Melayu mengalir Malaysia ini maka sa-lagi itu kami tidak akan membiarkan dan mendiam- kan diri dan kami mengutok kehendak2 ini dengan sa-kuat2-nya.
Jika sa-kira- nya ada manusia2 yang tidak senang atas hak2 kami orang Melayu yang ada di-dalam Perlembagaan ini, maka dengan segala hormat-nya kami per- silakan mereka itu keluar dan chari tempat dudok, diam di-negeri2 yang sesuai dengan kehendak dan nafsu-nya itu.

Saya berharap pehak Kerajaan tidak sa-kali2 melayani akan desakan manusia yang sa-rupa ini, jika Kera ini jaan berkehendakkan Malaysia dapat kekal, ma'amor, aman dan damai.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, satu lagi per- kara yang saya hendak berchakap berkenaan dengan kenaikan chukai yang di-terangkan oleh Menteri Ke wangan.

Sa-malam saya telah mem- bacha dalam surat khabar, Utusan Melayu, di-tulis dengan huruf besar, dan ra'ayat mengatakan mengeloh, amaran Menteri Kewangan tidak di-indahkan.
Satu sahaja harapan saya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ber harap kaum pemodal dalam negeri juga harapan kita Menteri Kewangan dalam amaran-nya ini sa-bagaimana gelisah 3439 3 DECEMBER 1964 3440 beberapa hari yang lalu supaya mereka jangan sa-kali2 mengambil kesempatan dengan kenaikan ini mereka dengan tidak memikirkan kepentingan negara mereka, terus naikkan harga barang2, walau pun perkara itu tidak ada kena- mengena dengan kenaikan yang ada pada hari ini.
Tegas-nya peluang ini mereka gunakan, ba' kata pepatah Melayu, menanggok yang keroh.

Oleh itu, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, lagi sa-bagaimana saya menguatkan pendapat di-adakan supaya ramai kawalan atas harga barang keperluan hari2.

Bagitu juga kawalan atas semua jenis barang2, sewa-menyewa dan sa- bagai-nya, dan hukuman hendak-lah di-beri dengan sa-berat-nya jika di- dapati mereka itu melanggar-nya.

di-ayer itu, pada 3 haribulan ini baharu di- ishtiharkan.
Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Jadi saya harap kerana saya telah memuji sikap PAS ini, Kerajaan PAS di- Kelantan akan menjadi satu model kapada negeri2 kita ini menunjokkan yang Kerajaan PAS di-negeri Kelantan itu betul2 menggunakan Bahasa Ke bangsaan dalam negeri-nya baik surat- menyurat yang telah di-buat-nya atau papan2 tanda, tanda2 jalan di-tukarkan kapada Bahasa Kebangsaan.

Ini akan menjadi satu model kapada negeri2 yang lain.

Jadi sekian-lah sahaja, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, terima kaseh.
AN HONOURABLE MEMBER : (rises).

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada satu per kara lagi yang saya hendak chakapkan dalam Dewan ini berkenaan dengan penggunaan Bahasa Kebangsaan, bagai- mana yang telah di-uchapkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Pasir Puteh telah yang mengatakan negeri-nya mengishtiharkan penggunaan sa-penoh- nya Bahasa Kebangsaan.

Saya ada-lah memuji sikap itu (Tepok).


Saya suka menyatakan ia-itu sa-bagaimana yang di-katakan oleh wakil itu, penggunaan Bahasa Kebangsaan yang di-jalankan itu ia-lah pada surat-menyurat, utus- mengutus, berchakap dan memulang- surat2 yang di-tulis di-dalam kan bahasa Inggeris.
Maka hal ini juga telah di-buat oleh negeri2 yang lain di- Tanah Melayu ini, khas-nya yang saya ketahui" Kerajaan Negeri Johor sendiri, tetapi antara Kerajaan Negeri Johor dengan PAS ini ia-lah hanya Kerajaan Negeri yang lain itu tidak mengishtiharkan sahaja bagai- mana yang di-buat oleh Kerajaan PAS.
Saya mengetahui" sunggoh pun PAS telah mengishtiharkan sikap-nya atas Bahasa Kebangsaan tetapi atas penggunaan Bahasa Kebangsaan di-papan2 tanda, di-kedai2, dan jalan2 dan lain2-nya, maseh belum berjalan lagi.

Mengapa saya berani berkata demikian, kerana saya, tidak berapa minggu dahulu, pun pernah saya pergi ka-Kelantan.

seliseh-nya itu, Enche' Abdul Samad bin Gul Ahmad Mianji (Pasir Mas Hulu): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Bahasa Kebangsaan Mr Speaker: Saya tidak mengizinkan.
jawapan2 daripada terbuka Sekarang Menteri2.

Enche' Mohd.

Daud bin Abdul Samad: (rises).

Mr Speaker: Saya tidak dapat meng izinkan lagi.

Sekarang terbuka kapada Menteri2 untok menjawab.

in that my intervention Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, I have much pleasure in informing the House this debate will be a very short one.

In fact, the answers to the observations made by Honourable Members on my they Ministries are so obvious require no answer.
However, politicians being what they are, I have to take this opportunity to reply, because otherwise I would be accused of being guilty by default.

that law does not The Honourable Member for Ipoh touched on the question of citizenship by registration—he referred to Mr Lim Lian Geok's case.

He stated that our provide citizenship security or protection, and he quoted Mr Lim Lian Geok's case as an instance.
He said that this man was not charged, nor tried, in open court and that only an inquiry in camera was held.

He went on further to say that citizenship laws in this country were not the Minister of Home Affairs could, by a stroke of the pen, revoke a person's if Government had citizenship, satisfactory, because that 3441 3 DECEMBER 1964 3442 evidence that a person was disloyal to the country, then by all means charge there him should be citizenship laws which pro vide security.
in open court; and that Now, Sir, our citizenship laws are based on the United Kingdom citizen ship laws, wherein matters relating to acquisition and deprivation of citizen ship are vested in the executive branch of the Government.

It is not true to say that our citizenship laws are as flimsy as has been suggested by the Honourable Member for Ipoh.
If they are, I would not have been bothered by the numerous applications by people from outside and inside the country asking to be registered as "citizens by registration".

Those appli cations alone testify to the value that is put on "citizenship by registration" by the people of this country.

then of three members—I Sir, the Minister acts on the evidence available before him after due inquiry has been made by a committee con am sisting speaking, of course, on the question of deprivation.
There is sufficient safe guard for everyone, because the Chair man is always a senior judicial and legal officer, and the person involved in the inquiry is entitled to have legal representation.

The fact that the inquiry is not open to the public does not necessarily mean is no justice.
So, Sir, that I think will dispel the false impression that the Honour able Member for Ipoh is trying to create in that I, as Minister of Home Affairs, by the stroke of the pen can revoke the citizenship of a person, who had acquired it by registration.

there that The next observation was made by the Honourable Member for Temerloh.

He expressed the hope that the Special Branch would continue to make greater efforts to trace the source of supply of illegal arms used by secret societies.
Public confidence can be gained, he said, if we succeeded in smashing the secret society menace.

Now, Sir, the Criminal Investigation Department is directly responsible for the investiga tion of secret society activities.

The Special Branch assists where necessary.

There is no information to suggest that and the Police.

Since individuals having any organised source of supply of illegal arms exists for the use of secret society members.
There were some isolated cases, which were few and far between, limited only to individual persons.

Every effort has been and is being taken to trace and arrest these subsequently bring individuals them to book.

Where there was infor mation of illegal fire-arms for purposes only known to themselves, the Police had not spared any effort to prevent these individuals from furthering their criminal activities.
Secret society activities are fairly well contained by the inception of the Prevention of Crimes Ordinance, No.

13 of 1959, in this Semenanjong Tanah Melayu, some 1,237 secret society thugs had been registered, and many others had been restricted under the Restricted Resi in dence Enactment (Cap.

39); and Singapore approximately 1,271 secret society thugs are under Police super vision orders and 644 under detention.
It cannot be over-emphasised that the legally is doing everything Police possible society secret contain activities and to smash their activities which call for ever more public co operation by giving evidence about these activities to the Police, without which the Police cannot effectively function.

to telah merayu Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Johor ia-itu Bahru Timor supaya baju hujan di-berikan kapada ahli2 pasokan kawalan supaya ke- sihatan dia tidak terganggu, terutama sa-kali dalam musim hujan.
Saya suka- lah memberitahu ia-itu baju hujan ini memang-lah satu daripada alatan yang di-beri—yang lain2 termasok-lah lampu suloh, tongkat, wisil dan lain2 yang di-fikirkan mustahak di-perolehi oleh ahli2 pasokan kawalan ini.

Saya duka- chita sadikit ia-itu oleh sebab terlambat memberi baju2 hujan itu, wisil dan torch-light ini, tetapi tindakan telah di- ambil dan barang2 ini akan di-beri dengan sa-berapa segera-nya pada tiap2 Negeri.
Ahli Yang Berhormat tentu-lah mengerti ia-itu banyak barang2 ini yang di-kehendaki dan tidak-lah dapat di- beli dengan sa-kali gus.

3443 3 DECEMBER 1964 3444 Immigration.

Beliau think the last observation came I from for the Honourable Member Krian Laut.

Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Krian Laut meminta keterangan2 ada atau tidak-nya anak2 Melayu bekerja di-Pejabat telah juga menyatakan ketakutan-nya, kalau2 ada perkara2 yang churang yang ber- laku di-pejabat tersebut.
Beliau juga telah meminta supaya di-ambil per hatian yang berat di-atas hal ini, dan beliau sa-terus-nya meminta supaya ini di-ambil daripada Ketua Pejabat orang Melayu.

saya terhad kapada Tuan Yang di-Pertua, untok men- jawab-nya, suka menyatakan bahawa saperti jabatan2 Kerajaan yang lain dan Jabatan Immigration ada-lah di-penohi oleh warga negara Malaysia yang terdiri dari berbagai2 bangsa dan tidak satu bangsa sahaja.
Saya kurang mengerti, apa-kah yang di-takuti oleh Ahli Yang Berhor mat itu dengan perkataan "Churang".

Ini barangkali perkataan ini datang daripada Perak, atau dari Kedah, saya tidak tahu, tetapi perkataan "Churang" ini, kalau Ahli Yang Berhormat itu bermaksud ada-nya makan suap dalam pejabat ini, saya mempunyai keper- chayaan yang penoh bahawa perkara yang sa-macham ini tentu-lah ada di- ambil perhatian dan di-ambil tindakan oleh polis.
Kalau Ahli Yang Berhormat itu ada tahu tentang ada-nya perkara ini berlaku, Ahli Yang Berhormat itu boleh-lah berhubong dengan pehak polis dan juga dengan Pengarah Penchegah Rasuah.

Tentang hal Ketua Jabatan Immigra tion ini, saya suka menegaskan di-sini bahawa Kerajaan sendiri mengikut di- atas dasar siapa layak, dia-lah yang di-pileh dengan tidak memandang kapada bangsa dan ugama.

I am sorry, Mr Speaker, there is one more observation made, and that is by the Honourable Member for Melaka Selatan.
Ahli Yang Berhormat ini telah menchadangkan kapada Kera jaan supaya ahli2 pasokan kawalan kampong di-beri latehan dalam meng- gunakan senjata api dengan sa-berapa segera-nya, dan dengan ini dapat-lah ahli2 pasokan kawalan kampong itu menjadi pertolongan yang besar kapada pehak polis.
atau Bagi menjawab pertanyaan Ahli Yang Berhormat ini, suka saya me negaskan bahawa tugas yang sa-benar- nya bagi pasokan kawalan kampong ini ada-lah berlaku sa-bagai mata dan telinga Kerajaan dan bukan-lah untok memburu dengan penyusup2 Indonesia yang bersenjata itu, walau satu bagaimana pun lengkap berkenaan penyusunan yang dengan pasokan kawalan ini sedang di-kaji oleh Kementerian saya dan soal itu akan di-kaji yang di-bangkitkan bersama2 dengan beberapa segi yang lain.
bertempor Sir, as I have said, my observation is very short and I now finish with my reply.

The Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications (Dato' V. T. Sambanthan): Mr Speaker, Sir, an from Sarawak Honourable Member wanted to know certain details with regard to payments to elected coun cillors.
For the States of Malaya the National Council for Local Govern the ment has under Article 95A of Constitution formulated a policy that allowances within certain scales be paid to elected councillors of the various local authorities.
As has been agreed in the Inter-Governmental Committee's Report and as provided in Section 43 of the Malaysia Act, Singapore and the Borneo States shall not be required to the policy formulated by the follow National Council for Local Govern ment under Article 95A of the Constitu tion.
As the State of Sarawak has full the Municipality of authority over Housing and other local councils within the State which are on the State list, there will be no objection if the State decides to follow the policy already formulated and applicable to the States of Malaya.
The Malaysia Act also provides that with the concurrence of each State Assembly, the State of Sarawak can adopt all the clauses of Article 95A whereby she will be bound to follow all the policy decisions of the National Council for Local Government.

The Minister responsible for Local Govern ment has no statutory power over local 3445 3 DECEMBER 1964 3446 authorities in any State.

However, any suggestion brought before the House can be communicated to the State con cerned for consideration.
The Honourable Member for Temer- loh stated that notices of termination of service have been served on a number of workers in Temerloh and he said that the time limit was too short.

In fact, an indication was given to these workers i.e.

a three months' notice that their services might be terminated.

I have had representations made to me and we have looked into the whole matter.
The position is that with the current financial difficulties we were not sure whether we will be able to continue with some of the works in that particular district.

However, I am glad to inform the House that there is a possibility of finance being forthcoming and of our being able to give these workers further employment.
The Minister of Transport (Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir): Mr Speaker, Sir, several Members of this House have referred to the prevalence of pirate or illegal taxis, both in the States of Malaya and Singapore.

I the Honourable Members' appreciate concern over this problem but before I go further I should like to say that this is not just a road transport problem but is equally an economic and social problem which cannot be solved merely by repressive action or strict enforce ment measures.
Pirate taxis exist, firstly, because it is so easy for any unemployed person in this country to buy a second-hand car on hire purchase terms and use it as a pirate taxi and compete successfully with licensed taxis because these pirate taxis pay so much less licence fees and insurance premium and are also not subject to periodical mechanical inspec tion by the Road Transport Depart ment.
However, the main reason why illegal taxis exist is because certain to the public continue sections of patronise them in spite of repeated warnings not to do so by the Police and Road Transport Departments as these vehicles are not insured to carry passengers for hire or reward and in case of an accident the injured party can have no claim against the insurance company.
In order to enable the public to differentiate easily a licensed taxi from a pirate taxi, the Road Transport Department recently introduced a new rule whereby all taxis are required to be clearly marked on both sides of the vehicle.

The public there fore cannot say that they could not tell a licensed taxi from a pirate taxi.

In spite of this measure it would appear that pirate taxis are still enjoying good patronage.
licensed to Enforcement action against these pirate taxis has been rendered most the difficult by the unwillingness of public to co-operate with the Police in giving of evidence against the operator.

Unless this co-operation is forthcoming there is not much that the authorities facilitate could do.
Nevertheless enforcement the Road Traffic Ordinance has been amended to give powers to a Police Officer to seize pirate taxis and it is hoped that armed with this addi tional power the Police will have more "teeth" in their campaign against illegal taxis.

Similarly, the Singapore Road Traffic Ordinance is also being amended to provide the Police there with the same power to seize pirate taxis.
For he information of the House 61 pirate seized by Road taxis have been Transport Officers between January and September, 1964, in the States of Malaya.

Some people also believe that if the number of licensed taxis was increased the number of pirate taxis would automatically be reduced.

This belief has been proved to be wrong.

In Singa pore until a few years ago there was no limit to the number of licensed taxis.
Anybody could apply and obtain a taxi licence and yet this did not have any effect at all on the number of pirate taxis operating in Singapore.

Similarly, in the States of Malaya the number of licensed taxis has increased from 3,540 in 1958 to 4,200—just an increase of 660 taxis today—without any effect at all on the number of pirate taxis.
It would be unwise to increase the number of further because the present number of licensed taxis has already reached saturation taxis any much licensed 3447 3 DECEMBER 1964 3448 point and many taxis have to compete to obtain fiercely among fares in order to survive.

themselves tempat taxi itu kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Temerloh telah menyatakan Undang2 taxi atau kereta sewa ini terlampau keras sebab itu-lah banyak taxi2 sapu atau taxi2 yang tidak membayar chukai.
Yang sa-benar-nya bagi pengetahuan Yang Berhormat, Undang2 atau sharat2 itu tahun 1958 telah pun di- semenjak longgarkan ia-itu kereta2 sewa ini boleh mengambil passenger2 atau penumpang2 dari tempat yang dia hendak pergi itu.

Dengan ada kelonggaran Undang2 ini, tidak juga taxi2 sapu.
akan mengurangkan Ini menunjokkan taxi2 sapu ini bukan-lah sebab Undang2-nya atau kurang-nya kereta sewa tetapi yang sa-benar-nya saperti mana yang saya terangkan tadi, kerana kereta2 sapu tidak kena membayar ansoran nyawa dan chukai2 yang mahal saperti mana taxi2 yang membayar chukai2 yang di-kehendaki oleh Kerajaan.

ini Yang Berhormat itu juga menerang- kan, oleh kerana lama mengeluarkan permit2 taxi ini maka di-situ-lah yang menyebabkan banyak taxi2 sapu.
Yang sa-benar-nya, saya sa-bagai Menteri Pe- ngangkutan telah mengambil tmdakan yang mana dahulu-nya ada 10 kawasan Majlis Pelesen mengeluarkan kebenaran kereta2 sewa ini, telah pun di-pinda sejak 1 haribulan April, 1964, kapada sa-buah sahaja Majlis Pelesen di- seluroh Tanah Melayu ini.

Ini dengan tujuan dan hendak melaksanakan hendak menyatukan segala peratoran2 supaya dapat di-jalankan dengan baik.
Tetapi malang-nya walau pun kita sudah pinda Undang2 itu, kita tidak-lah patut mesti menghapuskan hak2 pehak pun yang memohon pemohon2 kereta sewa yang tidak puas hati itu meminta ulang bichara.

Maka kuasa pehak yang tidak puas hati yang meminta ulang bichara ini-lah yang menyebabkan lama, kerana sekarang, ulang bichara pergi kapada Menteri.

Kalau ada sa-buah taxi yang hendak di-keluarkan kebenaran-nya dalam sa- buah kampong yang memohon ada 20 buah, tentu yang dapat sa-orang sahaja.
Maka biasa-nya 19 orang yang permit atau memohon yang tidak dapat itu akan menggunakan hak-nya meminta ulang bichara.

Maka kena-lah membuat segala2 rayuan 19 kali dan ini juga memakan belanja dan waktu.

Saya fikir hak ulang bichara ini ada-lah hak ra'ayat di-dalam negeri yang berdemo- krasi sa-bagaimana Malaysia ini, tidak- lah patut kita hendak hapuskan dengan hanya kerana lewat satu dua bulan sahaja.
Maka saya memberi pengakuan kapada Yang Berhormat itu, bila ada lambat sadikit, tahu-lah bukan kami yang melambatkan tetapi kerana ulang bichara yang ada hak2 itu kapada ra'ayat yang mahukan ke'adilan yang sa-benar2-nya.

that Now, coming the Honourable to Member for Ipoh—usually he is not here—he alleged the preference given to Malays in the grant of taxi licences has been the cause for the prevalence of pirate taxis.

It is nonsense.
It is nonsense.

For the information of the Honourable Member, I would like to say that once the Malay target percentage in a State, as fixed by law, has been achieved, all applicants, race, are regardless of treated solely on their merits.

For his further information, I would like to say that as at 1st December, 1964, the position taxi percentages in the States of Malaya is as follows.

the Malay regarding Malacca has achieved the target on the 11th of April, 1958.
In other words, anybody can apply and, on merit, they will be considered whether they will be granted taxi licences or not.

In Perak, for where Ipoh comes from, the target has been achieved since the 4th of March, 1959, and I do not see why he should com plain about it.

There is no discrimina tion, there is no delay there.

In regard to Negri Sembilan the Honourable Member .

.

.. Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, may I ask a question by way of clarification?
Dafo' Haji Sardon: If it has connec tion with this, I do not mind giving him way.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, am I to understand that it is the policy of the Government that when the target of the 3449 3 DECEMBER 1964 3450 quota system is reached, it is free for all and that everybody can apply and that every application is judged on its own merit irrespective of race, colour or creed?

Dato' Haji Sardon: In regard to Perak, the Malay target is 39.7 and it has been achieved since 4th March, 1959.
(To Enche' Yeoh Tat Beng) Please take a note.

Dato' Haji Sardon: Yes, that is the policy!

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Thank you.

to Selangor—this Dato' Haji Sardon: I am glad that you asked for clarification.

(Laughter) Now, in regard to Negri Sembilan, the Malay percentage has been achieved on the 11th of April, 1959, Penang in June, 1959, Pahang in April, 1963 and in regard is where I think the Member for Batu is concerned and he need not worry—it has been achieved in February, 1964.
Now, Johore has just 1.87% more to com plete the quota.

In other words, out of the target of 47.97, it has achieved up to 46.1 now.

For Kedah, the target is 67 and it has come up to 63.
Perlis has a target of 78 and it has achieved about 68.7 and in regard to Kelantan—of course, the majority in Kelantan are Malays—it is 91.64 and it has come up to 84.21. in road Now, from those statistics, it is quite clear, and I am proud of it, that the Alliance Government has done its level best to eliminate once and for all the imbalance of the economic position of the Malays transport the business as far as taxis are concerned; and this has been agreed to by all com munities and by all parties concerned as has been stated in White Paper 17.
I do not know the reason why the P.P.P.

at every Budget meeting, harps on the old tune "We want to eliminate the Malay privileges, particularly in the road transport".

However, I can assure them that as long as the people want the Alliance Government and as long as the Alliance Government is in power, we will be fair to everybody and we will still carry on the policies which will improve the economy of all those who carry on transport industries in Malaysia.
Enche' Yeoh Tat Beng (Bruas): Sir, on a point of clarification, can the Minister say whether Perak State has reached saturation?

Sir, I just wish to say this in conclu sion that the Alliance Government is doing its level best to help the Malays to come up transport business with other communities who are, I understand from my statistics, holding not less than 90% of the whole transport industries.
the road in itu, soalan2 The Prime Minister: Tuan Speaker, bagaimana perbahathan yang telah di- jalankan pada mula tadi, banyak-lah perkara2 yang telah di-sebutkan ber kenaan dengan Kementerian saya.

Jadi saya ini suka mengambil peluang menjawab tetapi yang mana di-keluarkan pada pagi ini tidak dapat-lah lagi di-sediakan dan tidak-lah dapat saya hendak menjawab-nya.
Berkenaan dengan perkara2 yang telah di-sebutkan oleh sa-tengah2 Ahli Yang ini Berhormat di-dalam Persidangan lagi tidak payah-lah saya sebutkan kerana Ahli2 Yang Berhormat telah keluarkan perkara2 itu.

Kerana banyak sangat yang berchakap, maka kita tentu-lah mengambil masa yang pan- jang sa-kira-nya saya sebutkan tiap2 perkara itu berkenaan dengan soal apa-kah perkara2 yang patut di-jadikan asas berkenaan dengan Persidangan Afro-Asia, apa-kah chara2 kita ini hendak masok dalam Persidangan itu.
ini Jadi, Malaysia sekarang telah mengambil banyak lagi rundingan yang giat untok hendak hadhir dalam Per itu, kerana kita pandang sidangan bahawa sangat-lah mustahak bahawa Malaysia ini hadhir dalam Persidangan itu, kerana dengan jalan itu dapat-lah kita menentang segala tudohan2 Indo nesia yang di-hadapkan kapada kita.

Jadi atas perchubaan kita ini bagaimana Ahli2 Yang Berhormat mengetahui Yang Berhormat Timbalan Perdana Menteri sendiri telah pun baharu2 ini pergi ka-negeri Middle East dan Africa Utara.
Dalam pertemuan Timbalan Perdana Menteri dengan ketua2 negeri2 itu, kita berasa puas hati-lah sokongan yang di-dapati-nya itu.

Daripada apa yang kita tahu, negeri2 ini tentu akan 3451 3 DECEMBER 1964 3452 menyokong Kerajaan Malaysia untok hadhir dalam Persidangan itu.

Di-dalam hal ini beberapa banyak lagi rombongan yang kita akan hantar ka-negeri2 dalam Africa dan di-dalam Middle East.
Jadi kehadhiran kita dalam Persidangan itu berdasarkan di-situ, nampak-nya tidak-lah bagaimana Per sidangan Non-Aligned itu mengatakan kita ini di-sifatkan sa-bagai Aligned.

kawasan dahulu atas Di-sini sa-bagai negeri yang merdeka telah di-terima oleh United yang Nations, tentu Persidangan itu akan menerima kita.
Jika di-sebutkan soal konfrantasi di-kalangan Afro-Asia ber- kaitan dengan soal Israel, maka di-sini saya suka menyebutkan sa-tengah2 Ahli di-dalam opposisi itu, mensifatkan bahawa kita ini telah mengi'tirafkan Israel itu sa-bagai negeri yang kita terima sa-bagai kawan.

Walhal tidak bagitu, yang sa-benar-nya Israel ini satu negeri yang telah sedia ada dalam United Nations masa kita ini masok.
Sunggoh pun kita i'tirafkan ini, tetapi kita telah memberi tahu beberapa kali bahawa kita tidak akan berkawan, tidak akan ada satu2 hubongan dengan tiap2 satu perkara yang Israel dan Israel minta, baik pun dalam kalangan sport dan sukan dan apa2 kalangan lagi, kita tidak menerima.

Jadi, betul2 menunjokkan kita ini memang berseteru dengan Israel.
Sa-lain daripada itu ta' payah-lah tentang soal saya hendak menyebut yang di-terbitkan oleh Ahli Yang Ber hormat dari Pasir Puteh, tentang bantuan untok melawan konfrantasi, ia-itu di-katakan soal Malaysia sendiri orang2 kita yang dapat bantuan untok melawan kerajaan sendiri itu ada-lah soal besar.
Jadi, Amerika yang sa- benar-nya di-atas soal yang pertama soal memberi bantuan kapada Malaysia, perkara itu saya sendiri telah mem- beritahu apabila saya pergi ka-Amerika baharu2 telah mengadakan perundingan dan Amerika telah mem- beritahu dengan sa-chara terus terang Indo berkenaan dengan confrantasi nesia—mereka tentu-lah tidak berkait.

Ini ada-lah satu soal yang British ada berkait, kerana perjanjian kita yang ada dengan Kerajaan British, ia-itu Perjanjian Pertahanan.
ini, saya itu itu, Amerika juga berkenaan Kita ini sa-buah negeri yang di-luar daripada SEATO.

Jikalau kita masok dalam SEATO sudah tentu Amerika ini berdiri di-belakang kita, kerana ahli2 SEATO itu telah berikat janji untok menentang sa-bagaimana kita kata kominis.

Oleh kerana kita ada-lah di-luar daripada perjanjian SEATO maka tanggongan menentang confron- tasi Indonesia tanggongan ia-lah kita sendiri dengan di-bantu oleh Kerajaan British.
Maka di-atas hal ini, kita telah berjalan terus dan kejayaan tuan2 dan Ahli2 kita sa-bagaimana telah pun Yang Berhormat sakalian dengan tahu dan perkara tidak memberi bantuan, sunggoh pun bagitu sa-bagai mana yang di-beritakan mereka tidak jauh di-belakang kita dan ini sudah tentu, kalau nampak-nya kita ini telah pun terancham terok dan harus demo ini akan hanchor, maka cracy kita saya tidak ada rasa bimbang di-atas sokongan yang akan di-berikan oleh Amerika itu.
Ahli2 Yang Berhormat juga meminta saya jelaskan kapada ra'ayat, ada-kah Malaysia menentang kominis oleh sebab kekerasan dan kejahatan, atau pun kita ini menentang ideology, atau fahaman kominis.

Kata- nya Islam bertentangan dan bermusohan dengan kominis.

Jadi, Ahli Yang Ber itu berasa dukachita di-atas hormat siaran kata-nya Perdana Menteri bahawa kita tidak menentang com munism dari segi ideology, tetapi dari segi kekerasan-nya sahaja.

PAS kata- segala2-nya.


nya menentang kominis PAS tidak memerentah negeri ini, dia boleh-lah menentang dia hendak menentang, tetapi bagi pehak kita ini susah sadikit, kerana kita ini ta' boleh berchampor dengan ideology orang2 lain, kerana ideology tiap2 satu orang, atau tiap2 satu negeri kena-lah sesuai dengan ra'ayat2 negeri itu, atau pendirian negeri itu, atau kehidupan negeri itu.
Jadi, apabila mereka telah tentukan di-atas ideology yang mereka hendak ikut, kita ini yang dudok jauh, yang tidak kena-mengena pergi hendak menentang—ta' bersetuju.

Jadi, hal itu tentu-lah kita kata tidak-lah berpatutan.
Bagitu-lah juga kalau kita ini Islam, orang lain—negeri lain memelok ugama lain, kita tidak berhak, sunggoh pun sa-suka 3453 3 DECEMBER 1964 3454 Indonesia tentangan kita menentang atas ugama itu, atau nampak-nya kita tidak sa-lari dengan ugama itu, kita hendak menentangkan mereka itu menerima ugama—itu pun ta' kena juga; itu hal2 ideology—apa yang berkenaan dengan kita, apa yang baik pada kita, apa yang sesuai pada kita—itu-lah yang kita ikut.

Jadi, ini-lah pendirian kita.


Maka dengan kerana itu, bagaimana tentangan Indonesia terhadap pendirian kita itu, kita telah katakan ia-itu tidak ada asas itu, langsong kerana kita berkawan dengan British, kerana kita buat perjanjian dengan British—Indonesia menentang sampai hendak hanchorkan kita ini.
Jadi, ini semua kita kata tidak berasas, bagitu juga kita ini tidak menentang kominis dengan kerana ideology-nya, kerana dia berhak memakai apa ideology yang dia suka, asalkan dia tidak mengachau kita, asalkan dia tidak chuba hendak mengancham negeri kita ini sa-bagai- telah buat dahulu mana yang dia itu.

juga di-atas kesanggupan British untok membantu Malaysia ia-lah kata-nya makin kurang.

Perjanjian Pertahanan mesti-lah di-kaji sa-kali lagi.
Perjanjian mesti-lah di- ubah kapada bentok Commonwealth supaya sa-imbang dengan taraf dan kedaulatan Malaysia.

Jadi kehendak Ahli Yang Berhormat itu supaya kita paksa British mengeluarkan wang segala2 per- ringgit, mengeluarkan tolongan, pendek-nya biar mereka itu berperang—kita dudok diam.
Jadi, ini bukan taraf kemerdekaan, atau sa- sabuah negeri yang mengakui diri-nya merdeka dan bagi kita ini telah pun di-langgar, atau pun di-ancham oleh musoh, maka tanggongan kita ia-lah melawan dan menentang musoh2 itu.

Jadi, di-sebutkan telah memberi bantuan Bagi pehak sahabat kita ini apa yang telah di-janjikan, maka asal di-jalankan, itu, bagi di-sempurnakan perjanjian pehak kita patut-lah berpuas hati.
Jadi, apa yang telah berlaku pada hari ini, British sa- bagaimana yang di-janjikan di-dalam itu dan bagi pehak kita, perjanjian terpaksa-lah kita menentang musoh2 kita dengan sa-boleh2-nya dan apa2 juga sokongan yang lain, apa yang tersebut dalam perjanjian itu, mahu-lah kita ikhtiarkan dan chari sendiri.
Maka dengan kerana itu-lah Ahli2 Yang Ber hormat telah mendengar ia-itu pehak rombongan daripada Canada telah pun datang di-sini dan telah berunding dengan pehak Kementerian Pertahanan dan dalam perundingan itu telah di- bahathkan atas apa2 perkara yang tangan mereka boleh menghulorkan untok menolong kita di-dalam keadaan sekarang juga pehak Amerika, rombongan di-sana pun telah datang dan berunding dengan pehak pertahanan kita dan kita telah mengemukakan apa2 benda yang patut di-dapati daripada mereka Ini pendirian negeri yang berdaulat, negeri yang merdeka, kalau kita serahkan segala2-nya kapada tangan British, ini menunjokkan bahawa kita memang di- bawah ta'alok British ini.
Jadi, bagitu-lah .

.

.. itu.

Enche' Mohamed Asri bin Haji Muda: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, maksud saya memberi pandangan itu bukan- lah kita hendak menyerahkan segala2- nya kapada British dan negara Com monwealth, bukan-lah kita hendak dudok diam sahaja—hendak biarkan orang2 itu berperang.

Maksud saya kemukakan itu biar-lah kita sendiri yang memperjuangkan, mempertahan- kan tanah ayer kita ini dan negeri2 itu memberikan bantuan alat senjata dan kewangan—itu ada-lah berlainan sadikit dengan penjelasan.
juga, tetapi The Prime Minister: Ya, ada di- sebutkan bagitu saya hendak pendekkan sahaja.
Jadi, pada perasaan saya di-atas apa yang terse but itu bagitu-lah juga, tetapi ta' apa- lah saya terima apa yang di-jelaskan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat itu, dan di-sini saya ingatkan lagi, maka tang gongan kita hendak-lah kita usahakan untok menentang musoh kita ini dengan sa-berapa daya upaya-nya dan pehak mereka di-atas bantuan yang telah itu—saya kapada di-berikan nampak berpatutan dan memenohi dengan sharat2 tersebut dan dalam perjanjian yang telah di-buat dengan British itu, jadi ada perkara2 yang lain yang berbangkit di-dalam perbahathan ini ia-itu sa-orang Ahli Yang Berhor mat di-katakan ia-itu berkenaan dengan hal pentadbiran—ada di-katakan, di- dapati yang temu-duga bagi mengam- bil pekerja2 untok memgang jawatan2 kita 3455 3 DECEMBER 1964 3456 pegawai yang kosong, yang ada menjadi ahli temu-duga itu yang anti- bahasa kebangsaan dengan mengata- kan tidak mustahak mengambil mereka yang berkelulusan dari sekolah ke bangsaan, sebab bahasa kebangsaan tidak mustahak.
Jikalau Ahli Yang Berhormat itu boleh beritahu kapada saya siapa-kah ahli, atau pegawai yang itu yang menjadi ahli mengeluarkan sa- yang macham itu, saya mengaku saya akan itu.

mengambil (Tepok).

temu-duga perkataan tindakan atas ahli lah dapat kita hendak menggunakan dengan 100 peratus barangkali, kerana ini—perkara perkara yang umpama yang besar umpama ini kena-lah kita menjalankan dengan timbang menim- juga.
Tetapi bagi pehak kita bang tidak ada lain melainkan kita akan chuba dengan sa-berapa daya mema- itu sa- kai juga bahasa kebangsaan bagaimana yang kita telah sebutkan tadi.

Jadi bagaimana saya katakan jikalau nampak tidak dapat hendak di-pakai 100 persen, 90 persen pun harus di-pakai.

Jadi juga, di-sebutkan apa-kah tindakan yang telah di-ambil oleh Kerajaan Pusat bagi melaksanakan bahasa kebangsaan sa-bagai bahasa rasmi yang tunggal dalam tahun 1967.
Perkara ini telah banyak di-keluarkan oleh Ahli2 Yang Berhormat di-dalam ini.

Di-atas kempen2 yang Dewan telah di-jalankan beberapa tahun yang lepas menunjokkan bagaimana berat- di-atas nya Kerajaan memandang menggunakan bahasa kebangsaan itu sa-bagai bahasa rasmi yang tunggal.

Dan kita telah menjalankan, bagai mana Ahli2 Yang Berhormat sendiri tahu, Minggu dan Bulan Bahasa Ke bangsaan dan kita telah susun di-dalam di-sekolah2 pelajaran2 kebangsaan itu.
mengenai bahasa pelajar2— Boleh di-katakan murid2 daripada sekolah itu terpaksa kena belajar bahasa kebangsaan.

Jadi mereka yang lulus daripada sekolah2 kebangsaan dalam sadikit tahun lagi atau satu dua tahun lagi semua-nya boleh di-katakan di-dalam bahasa kebangsaan.

kebangsaan semua pandai Banyak Menteri2 Kerajaan pun pada hari ini mengeluarkan sa-berapa daya upaya-nya surat2 semua-nya di-dalam bahasa kebangsaan.

Jadi tentang mana yang susah pada waktu ini ia-lah di- atas Shorthand—Stenographer.
Mereka ini sedang belajar tetapi dalam Short hand atau pun ini belum dapat lagi mereka itu pandai.

Jadi dengan kerana itu ada-lah men jadi sadikit sukar di-atas hal itu tetapi pehak Kerajaan insha' Allah kita akan jalankan dengan sa-berapa usaha-nya supaya bahasa kebangsaan akan di- pakai pada tahun yang kita janjikan itu (Tepok).

Sunggoh pun bagitu tidak- ringkas tulisan bahasa telah ambil Inggeris kena Berkenaan dengan Undang2 dalam Parlimen ini di-katakan hendak-lah di-gunakan dalam bahasa kebangsaan.
Hal timbangan ini kita dengan berat juga.

Tetapi dengan kerana banyak juga perkataan2 yang di-gunakan di-dalam Undang2 itu ter juga di-pakai dengan bahasa paksa Inggeris, kerana tidak dapat kita hendak gantikan dengan bahasa kita ini.

Saya nampak Undang2 dalam bahasa juga di-pakai sekarang ini tetapi kita akan chuba mengadakan ke di-dalam perkataan2 bangsaan—menggunakan itu di-dalam bahasa kebangsaan, per kataan2 yang kita semua faham dalam bahasa inggeris ini juga.
Kerana saya ini biasa daripada mula bekerja di- Kedah ada-lah menggunakan bahasa kebangsaan di-dalam semua perkara baik pun di-dalam pentadbiran negeri atau pun di-dalam Mahkamah.

Dan juga dengan kerana itu di-Kedah ini banyak ma'ana-nya perkataan2 Inggeris yang kita semua faham kita pakai, sa- olah2-nya perkataan itu perkataan ba hasa Melayu.

Jadi jikalau sa-kira-nya kita timbang tidak menjadi salah dan tidak membangkitkan keritik, harus kita gunakan atoran itu.
Kadang2, per kataan2 yang di-keluarkan dari Balai tidak Pustaka berapa terjemahan sparking plug di-katakan perchek api, kita tahu, kita semua pakai sparking plug, battery sa-umpama-nya ini Saya harap di-dalam di-pakaikan-lah apa benda yang kita tiap2 Undang2 di- kenal.

Kerana kehendaki memberi faham orang ma'ana-nya dalam Undang2 itu.
Jikalau kita pakai terjemahan perkataan2 dari ini, saya sendiri pun faham; macham terjemahan tidak 3457 3 DECEMBER 1964 3458 Balai Pustaka yang kita sendiri tidak tidak-lah menjadi guna.

Jadi faham kerana itu saya harap pada masa hadapan kita chuba sa-berapa daya menterjemahkan Undang2 ini di-dalam bahasa kebangsaan dan juga kita keluarkan Undang2 di-dalam bahasa Inggeris.
terbuka terhadap Ada juga dengan ada-nya keadaan kesusahan pada masa ini kata-nya ada- lah di-sebabkan timbul-nya pembento- kan Malaysia.

Hal ini saya ingat di- keluarkan oleh sa-orang dua Ahli Yang Berhormat.

Saya akan gaulkan semua sa-kali perkataan yang di- keluarkan sa-umpama ini yang men- chabarkan Kerajaan mengishtiharkan perang Indonesia, saya akan sebutkan belakang kelak.

Dan juga perkara berkenaan dengan Kerajaan harus menentukan dasar-nya soal Rhodesia Selatan.
Hal ini saya dapat sebutkan sekarang ia-itu Kera jaan telah pun menentukan dasar-nya tentang hal ini.

Perkara ini saya telah jawab kapada Perdana Menteri Bri tish yang mengatakan, kami menen tang segala dasar perbezaan warna kulit.

Dan kita menentang juga segala perchubaan untok menubohkan sa- buah Kerajaan yang tidak di-terima sokongan dari semua ra'ayat walau pun kulit puteh atau hitam, hal ini kita telah menentukan sikap pendi- rian kita.
Dan juga ada di-sebutkan lagi soal keengganan Russia membayar yuran kapada pertubohan Bangsa2 Bersatu.

Malaysia telah pun memberikan kete- rangan di-atas pendirian kita atas hal ini, mesti-lah tuntut hutang itu tetapi biar-lah di-jalankan peratoran United Nations atas Russia sa-hingga dapat jalan yang lain atau ikhtiar yang lain untok menyelesaikan ini.

Kerana kita tidak mahu-lah sa-boleh2- nya United Nations menjadi perpe- chahan dengan kerana perkara yuran.
Jadi dengan kerana itu tuan2 pun sedia ma'alum sekarang ini United Nations mengadakan persidangan tidak mahu mengambil tindakan yang keras dan saya harap soal ini dapat di-selesaikan.
istimewa sa-orang Ahli orang Melayu; ada telah mengatakan Yang Berhormat bahawa patut-lah kita mendirikan satu Berkenaan dengan hak2 hutang Lembaga Jema'ah atau pun Jema'ah Menteri bagi menjaga dan membuat ranchangan2 jangka panjang untok hak istimewa orang2 Melayu dan bumi putera Sabah dan Sarawak supaya satu masa kelak mereka meningkat naik sama dengan kemajuan bangsa bersatu.
Maka saya suka memberi tahu bahawa Menteri Perdagangan dan Perusahaan sudah pun ada sa-buah bahagian khas untok menyusunkan hal2 kemajuan perniagaan orang2 Melayu.

Dan Ke- menterian ini telah pun berjalan dengan chergas atas perkara ini.
Tetapi jikalau kita menubohkan satu badan untok menjaga hak2 Melayu nampak-nya sa- olah2 bukan-lah Wakil Ra'ayat jelata di-sini, sa-olah2-nya kita in macham Kerajaan Colony dahulu ia-itu bagi menjaga hal2 negeri dengan tidak ambil pandang di-atas kedudokan orang2 Melayu ini daripada boleh ra'ayat dengan kerana itu-lah kita kena-lah memandang di-atas kedudo kan kehidupan ra'ayat2 Melayu ini.

di-katakan wakil itu.


Walhal kita kita ini tolong, perniagaan ranchangan Maka dengan kerana itu tiap2 usaha kita yang di-jalankan pada hari ini saperti ranchangan Luar Bandar dan lain2 dan semua-nya kita tetapi bagi pehak orang Melayu, kena-lah tolong diri mereka sendiri.

Jangan-lah harap- kan segala2-nya kapada Kerajaan buat itu dan ini, dan Kerajaan telah mem berikan lesen dan berbagai2 perkara lagi.
Tahu2 lesen2 itu sudah hilang, timbul di-tangan orang Jadi pening kepala Kerajaan memikirkan, tetapi kita buat latehan untok hendak memberi ra'ayat Melayu sedar bagai- mana perjalanan perniagaan dan lain2 dan dengan latehan2 itu, kita harap satu hari kelak boleh-lah menolongkan diri mereka sendiri dengan pertolongan yang di-beri oleh Kerajaan.

lain.

Jadi lagi satu chadangan yang saya ia-itu di-chadangkan nampak baik supaya di-adakan Tabong Derma Kebajikan Ahli2 Parlimen.
Kalau kematian ahli2 Parlimen berlaku, boleh- lah wang ini di-gunakan.

Wang untok Tabong itu hendak-lah di-ambil dari pada elaun M.P.

Saya memang ber- setuju-lah ini (Ketawa).

meminta tetapi Chadangan jangan M.P2.

elaun, itu sangat baik, sangat tambah 3459 3 DECEMBER 1964 3460 suroh potong elaun, jangan sudah lagi tambah besok minta (Kelawa), dan kalau sudah di-potong jangan-lah kata susah hendak me- laksanakan itu dan ini.
pula Tadi ada juga di-sebutkan ber- kenaan dengan bahasa kebangsaan yang di-beri pada masa layanan dahulu, kata-nya pada masa dahulu pada masa pemerentah Jepun, jika tahu bahasa Jepun boleh dapat gaji lebeh, jadi kita di-sini tidak beri gaji lebeh bagaimana di-buat pada masa pemerentah Jepun dahulu, kerana kita memerentah negeri kita sendiri.
Tetapi ada yang di-beri elaun sa-banyak $30 sa-bulan kapada Juru Trengkas dan bagitu juga kapada tiap2 sa-orang kerani yang mahir bahasa kebangsaan yang kerja di-gunakan membuat dalam bahasa kebangsaan.

Lagi satu perkara dalam peratoran Perkhidmatan Juru Trengkas, Pensionable Allowance sa-banyak $50 sa-bulan ada-lah di- beri kapada Juru Trengkas Bahasa Inggeris yang lulus dalam Pepereksaan Kerajaan dalam bahasa kebangsaan.
in to that the various the Honourable Member In connection with service matters, an Honourable Member from Sarawak suggested in the present emer gency situation we should see to it that promotions services should not be on a racial basis but on personal merits.

According the Honourable Member, during his short stay here in Kuala Lumpur, he heard complaints of officers having been promoted not on personal merits.
I am sorry to say that I do not know whether is referring to any particular Service or merely generalising, or whether he is referring to the Services in the States of Malaya.

In any case, in the States of Malaya, in accordance with the service principles laid down in the General Orders, promotion is based on quali fications, merits experience.

Any allegation that promotion is based on racial origin, I can say here, is not true.
An examination of the establish ment lists of the Federal Services will show that merits and not racial origin service have been the basis.

This principle has been adhered to very independent Public the strictly by Services Commission.

and in the Constitution The Honourable Member also suggested that in the Constitution pro vision is made for the reservation of quotas in respect of the Public Service for Malays and that there is no such provision for Sarawak or Sabah.
It may be politically expedient in the States of Malaya to have this provision, but such a pro vision should not be extended to the other States of Sabah and Sarawak.

In reply to this question, I can do no better than to quote paragraph 29 of Inter- the Malaysia Report of Governmental Committee 1962 which states among other things: the of "It was agreed that.
(c) in the application of Article 153 to the Yang di- the Borneo States Pertuan Agong should continue to exercise his powers under the Article on the advice of the Federal Cabinet, but such advice shall only be given the Chief after consultation with .

.

."

Minister of the State concerned It follows from here that this provi sion is not extended automatically to the States of Sabah and Sarawak.
Nevertheless, where possible, the exten sion of this protection for the natives of the two States must be considered and must be applied where possible.

juga Satu perkara lagi yang di-bangkit- kan oleh sa-orang Ahli Yang Berhor- mat berkenaan dengan gaji "Equal Pay for Women", gaji sama untok wanita2.

Ini belum di-laksanakan oleh sebab Pehak Pekerja, Staff Side, belum lagi dapat menerima tawaran Kera jaan.
Sa-balek-nya mereka telah mem buat chadangan balas—Counter Pro posal dan ini sedang di-kaji dengan halus-nya.

Bagitu berkenaan dengan hal pentadbiran juga, satu per- tanyaan soalan ini daripada Ahli Yang juga, apa-kah sebab Berhormat Kerajaan laksanakan tangga gaji baharu bagi Doktor2 semua.

Kata-nya Doktor2 tetap sahaja yang telah di-tawarkan, Doktor2 Se- mentara, Doktor2 yang bekerja dalam contract perempuan, bersuami, ada di-anggap lain dan tidak di-beri tangga gaji baharu ini.
Di-sini saya suka memberi tahu tangga gaji baharu untok Doktor2 ia-lah untok termasok Doktor2 semua Doktor2 dan Doktor2 itu belum lagi 3461 3 DECEMBER 1964 3462 Sementara, Doktor2 dengan chara con tract dan Doktor2 perempuan juga.

Ini ada-lah satu soalan lagi ber- kenaan dengan, telah menyentoh, kata- nya tentang kenyataan yang mengata- ada pegawai2 dalam kan bahawa Khidmat Luar Negeri yang telah tidak di-naikkan pangkat, pada hal rakan2 sejawat-nya di-dalam tingkatan yang sama dalam M.C.S.
telah di-naikkan sunggoh berlaku pangkat.

Hal tetapi perkara ini di-dalam pemerek- saan dan harus perubahan akan di- jalankan tidak lama masa lagi.

ini ada-lah pangkat Lagi satu soal di-dalam kenaikan pangkat Pegawai2 M.C.S., jasa bakti— merit—kata-nya di-timbang.

tidak Jadi ini menurut service principles, semua kenaikan pangkat ada-lah di- jalankan oleh Surohanjaya Perkhid- telah mengkaji sharat matan Awam di-dalam General Orders Cap.
A 38 di- mana ada di-sebutkan bahawa kenaik an berdasarkan kapada jasa baik.

Jadi kelayakan, kelulusan, pengalaman dan kemahiran semua-nya di-timbangkan.

Jadi hal itu Kerajaan serah kapada Perkhidmatan Awam.

Jadi ini di-katakan sa-bagai surohanjaya satu pertubohan yang bebas.

Jadi tidak-lah saya ingin menaroh bimbang bahawa apa yang di-sebutkan oleh pegawai itu atau apa yang di-bimbangkan oleh Pegawai itu tidak-lah berasas.
Surohanjaya di-katakan boleh atau Now, Sir, with regard to matters affecting the External Affairs Ministry, it was alleged that we did not give thought to the Middle East countries and also to the African countries and that it was only after we had been confronted by Indonesia that we, all of a sudden, started to make move to win the the African countries and over Middle East countries.

I do not think the Honourable Member has forgotten the fact the African countries have just become independent.
Even before they became independent, we were the only country, perhaps, in the whole wide world that took up the question of the apartheid in Africa; and we too were the first to start the the boycott of South campaign for Africa because of its apartheid policy.

that many of to Therefore, to suggest that we did not these African pay any attention countries, to say the least, is not true, because we have supported them and our thoughts and our consideration for the feelings of the African people is clear.
We have not set up diplomatic relations with these countries for the simple reason that we have not the means, nor the men, to man all these various Missions.

Being a new country, we have got to take time and we have not got, as I said, the money.

Now with the money that we have got to spend in order to defend our country against Indonesia, we have got less money to projects—Missions spend on abroad.

If you will, perhaps, look at what we have now i.e.
in the whole of America, you will see that we have only one Mission, the whole of Europe we have got three Missions— in London, in Bonn, in Paris and Germany—and for the whole of African countries we have got one Mission and in the Middle East, one Mission.

If you look at it in its real perspective, you will see that it compares quite favour ably with what we have in Africa.

However, it is our intention to set up more Missions in the other African the States, and attention of this Government, now.
receiving these that in is We have also tried, as best as we could, to inform these States of the situation with regard to trouble with Indonesian.

I took the opportunity to explain things to all the members of the African countries and other Com monwealth countries at the Common wealth Prime Ministers Conference in London recently.
Also, we have sent delegations from time to time to the other countries, and we have invited newspaper men from the Middle East and from the African countries to come here to see for themselves how things are in this country.

Therefore, to say that we have not done enough, would be half truth.

But to say that we have not set up Missions in all the countries, is a fact and, as I have said, the reason for that is that we have not got the means to do so now, but this matter is under consideration.
We should have thought that most of these countries in Africa and in the Middle East would 3463 3 DECEMBER 1964 3464 have known about what is happening here without our having to explain to them all the time, because I have taken a lot of trouble to write to the Heads of these States everything that happens with regard to this confrontation.

Then we would have thought on humanitarian ground that they would have no choice for us, except to because we are is Indonesia which is the aggressor.
They cannot, of course, be so ignorant as not to take heed of what is happening in this part of the principle which forms the basis of the United Nations, which is to defend the right of countries to exist as free and independent countries.

the world, nor of show sympathy the victim—it Some Honourable Members, of course, are inclined to find fault with the this Government, particularly Members of the Opposition.
One Honourable Member suggested that it was we who are to blame for all these troubles with Indonesian—because we have formed Malaysia, suggested the Honourable Member, we have pro voked Indonesia into declaring this con frontation against us.

The Honourable Member unfortunately had not given any thought to what I had said time and time again in this House.

Indo nesia's design on our territories is not new.


It dates as far back as 1945 when, as I have stated before—and I repeat these here—Soekarno had declared territories of Malaysia as belonging to the Greater Indonesia Raya.

According to him, this is part of Indonesia.

After independence, they set up diplomatic relations with us, and they have never forgotten at any time the design they have with regard to us.

Under the pretext of friendship, they set up their Embassy here.
When their master spy, General Djatikusumo was here, he took a lot of trouble and he spent a lot of time and money to try and build up pro-Indonesian elements in this country.

He had succeeded in doing quite a lot until there was this rupture between us and Indonesia.
Again, in 1959, Soekarno declared his intention to take over these territories, and confrontation was brought to a head, in fact, when I denounced Chinese aggression in India; then he felt that he Indonesia or could get the support of the communists and together they would succeed in they con crushing Malaysia, which sidered the to as an obstruction communist expansion and an obstruc tion to Indonesian "revolusi" as they it.
So because we were quick call enough to bring this trouble to a head, in fact sooner than expected, Indonesia was not fully prepared to carry out the design.

Nevertheless, she was forced to bring about this showdown and started an armed aggression or an armed con- frontasi against us, but all their attacks, because fully prepared, had not been quite successful.
In fact, they had quite a severe loss and I would like to mention here the number of they have losses which suffered as a result of this confronta tion: they have had 297 killed, 297 captured and 65 surrendered.

they had not been So the Honourable Member for Ipoh does not seem to be happy about things.
But if he feels unhappy about things, Sir, we cannot force him, of course, to stay here; he can go when he wants to go, we will still remain here and I think we can be quite happy here without him (Applause).

If he wants to stay here, he has got to take the good and the bad as a citizen of this country and not just take the good only and leave the bad to us.

As a citizen of this country he has his responsibility and his duty as everyone of us, but to talk so loosely I think is no help to us.
It only benefits the enemy.

the question of We are in no doubt that confrontation into something more has escalated serious—it has become an armed con flict.

Under the Geneva Convention in dealing with the desirability or otherwise of declaring that there is an armed conflict between Malaysia and Indonesia, it is important for us to determine the hostile intention of the Indonesian Government, because we want to try as much as possible to prevent an outbreak of a fullscale war.
We have got to go a little bit slowly in this matter.

According to this Con vention, the presence of elements for recognising the existence of a state of armed conflict does not by itself make it obligatory on one party alone to 3465 3 DECEMBER 1964 3466 to that the effect accept a state of armed conflict until and unless the other party also regards the situation as such.
So we took the proper course, which we thought some time early last month, when we approached the Indonesian Government through the Thai Government to state whether their aggression or their con flict amounts to or come within the meaning of the Geneva Convention.

They have taken a lot of time to con sider our note, but in the end, just recently, they have replied.
They have replied they are signatory to the Geneva Convention and that they would invite an inter national committee, the Red Cross, to ascertain the status of those captured Indonesian volunteers.

What it means in effect is that they have admitted the fact that they have carried out an armed conflict against their neighbour and this is a matter which we will take up at the United Nations when it meets next time.
On the Honourable Member as a lawyer must know that we cannot rush matters until we have taken stock of all evidence and circumstances so that we can satisfy ourselves as to what proper course of action is best for us to take so that the world may know us for what we are— a civilised country which upholds all the principles of the United Nations.

We cannot put ourselves in the position of our neighbour or act like a tribe of barbarians whose only thought is to disrupt peace and to destroy mankind.
So we are in this respect willing and ready to face Indonesia, because, as I have said before, and I repeat it here, we are not fighting just to save ourselves but we are fighting for the right of small nations, such as we are, to survive.

this matter too, Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification.
Am I to understand from the statement of the Honourable Prime Minister that this question of whether we are in a state of armed conflict with Indonesia is still under consideration by the Alliance is so, as we Government?
subscribe to the Geneva Convention, am I to understand that we will, what the Latins say festina lente, make haste slowly in this matter, because according to the newspaper reports there have that If if been people who have been sentenced to death both in the Bornean States and those in Malaya and, as such, sentences are carried out, then I do not know whether it will conflict with this consideration by the Government, that the state of armed conflict is still under consideration.
Can we have an assurance from that pending clarification on this matter, the execu tion will be stayed?

the Government The Prime Minister: Well, that is why it has been very difficult for me to be forthright on this matter.

There is only one case that is on appeal.

But the Cabinet is having the matter in hand and we hope that in a short time we will be able to clarify the position in respect of those Indonesians who are captured by us.
But there are also the others who are guilty of acts of treason punishable with death and there are quite a number of those people who are Malaysians and these people do not come within the meaning of prisoners of war.

In their case, there can be no question about what the penalty will be and I do not think there will be any stay of execution if they are found guilty of treason, guilty under the law which is in force in this country under this present state of Emergency.
That much the Honourable Member, but I could do no more.

My position here is to explain as best as I could to the Honourable Members of this House who brought the subject of Indonesian prisoners of war in this House.

All I can do is to explain in this way: that this is a matter which is under consideration and we will make sure that the person concerned will not suffer as a result of the time we have to take to consider their position.
I can explain to The other Honourable Member also suggested that we are using the wealth of this country for nothing, he asked for whose purpose is this war being fought?

In reply to him, I would say that the wealth of this country is going to be used to good purpose.

As I said just now, it is not only spent to defend our right and our freedom, but to defend the right of other small nations who are similarly placed as ourselves.
Whatever resources we devote for this 3467 3 DECEMBER 1964 3468 purpose are I consider money well spent.

Posterity probably will remember what we do now as a glorious feat of valour accomplished by this young nation, Malaysia.

There was a question raised in this House asking whether Malaysia was formed for anybody's prestige.

I say, "No".

It is not formed for anybody's prestige, or through anybody's stupidity—it was said that we who worked towards the formation of Malaysia are all stupid people.
There were so many people involved, and I dare say that they are not all stupid.

It was formed for a purpose, and the purpose is to free these people in the Borneo territories and in Singa imperialism.

the yoke of pore from Therefore, I say that he does not have to worry about it as he does not intend to do the fighting; there are many who will fight and who will give their all to safeguard Malaysia from the Indo nesians.
It was also suggested by an Honour able Member in this House that we should make a counter attack on Indonesia, but I still maintain that a good defence is the best means of attack, and what we are doing has served our purpose; unless circum stances demand, I do not think we will do anything more than what we are doing today.
Another Honourable Member sugges ted that we should follow completely the so-called non-aligned politics or, to be more correct, we should follow the trend of some countries in Asia and Africa, to toe the Eastern or pro-Communist line.

The line that we take is what I thought to be the best for the people in this country—that is to provide them with food, with clothing and with happiness.
I know, and I think some of the Honourable Members are aware that some of the countries who follow blindly the Communist bloc have not fared very well, and I think we would rather live in this country than in the many countries that are on the other side.
In some cases it may suit them to follow the Communist bloc but I am sure it won't suit us, because one thing I learnt in my meeting with Chin Peng, is "Once a the Communist leader, Communist, always a Communist"— and the Communists will not tolerate any people who are opposed to their line of thought or to their ideology: they will never co-exist with these countries.
Therefore, we know that if we work with the Communists, or we try to co-exist with the Communists, before we know where we are we will find completely swallowed up.

that we will be Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification.

Do I understand the Prime Minister correctly, when he stated he had formed the opinion, "Once a Communist, always is so, Mr If a Communist"?

Speaker, Sir, is he aware that there are in this House itself people who have been former Communists?
If so, what action does he propose to take against these people?

that The Prime Minister: Well, in that case, he is not a Communist (Laughter), because at one time he thought he was— is not a real Communist now he (Laughter).

With Chin Peng, to tell you the honest truth, he is a man from whom, I felt, I had received one of the lessons that will always be a treasure to me.
I was so indebted to him that when I left him I had requested the then Government that whatever happens Chin Peng must not be executed if he is captured, but that he should be allowed to go where he wants to, because I felt that he had given me that lesson and he was the one honest Communist whom I met.

(Laughter).

in the fact that, as Now, the other question that was brought up was about the setting up of consular offices in this country.
There has been a little bit of misunderstanding and confusion, I think, in the minds of Members the Taiwan Government has set up a con sular office here, we have recognised Taiwan.

In fact, we have not.

This is only a commercial representative of that country.

Whatever it is, we all know that there has been a great deal of commercial activities between Tai wan and ourselves, and they had requested whether they could set up a commercial representative here.
A commercial representative is a consular 3469 3 DECEMBER 1964 3470 the benefit of officer, who is no more than a business man representing his country here— and it does not mean that we should recognise Formosa just because he is here to facilitate the granting of visas and various other things for those who wish to visit Formosa.

According to reports from various people who have visited Formosa, is a very nice it country.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

It has got many, many attractions (Laughter), and those who have gone there once have always their desire to go there a indicated hundred more times.

(Laughter).

And so what I could do for the benefit of these people, for the businessmen, I had done i.e.

permit the setting up of a consular official here— and I hope the Members from the Opposite Bench will also take advantage of this to visit Formosa: I am sure they will enjoy themselves.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Because we have permitted a consular official from Formosa to be here, it has been suggested that we should also set up a Communist China mission here.

That is a different matter.

That is not a subject which I would like to entertain, because there are so much implications.
As I said just now, the warning, the advice, that was given me by Chin Peng will always remain with me, and that any country whose we know ideology runs contrary to that of the Communists can never be tolerated or accepted by them.

into into Now, on the question of Communist China's admission the United Nations, I had mentioned some years back that we would support Communist China's admission the United Nations, but the price which they asked was a little bit too great.
They had asked for the expulsion of Formosa from the United Nations.

We could not accept that as a condition for their the United Nations admission because it would be wrong to sacrifice the lives of 12 million people who now live in Formosa.

into Sir, that is about all that I need mention in this House.
There are many matters that had been brought up and some of them have not been handed in to me, but whatever I have left out I will try and reply to them through one of my colleagues, who has yet to reply to the various observations made in this House.

(Applause).

Mr Speaker: Ahli2 Yang Berhormat, ini di-tempohkan hingga persidangan pukul 4.30 petang.

Sitting suspended at 1.00 p.m.


Sitting resumed at 4.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) EXEMPTED BUSINESS (Motion) The Deputy Prime Minister (Tun Haji Abdul Razak): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the proceedings of the Supply Bill, 1965, this day shall be exempted from the provisions of Standing Order 12 and that the House shall not adjourn until after com pletion of the aforesaid proceedings.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Question put, and agreed to.


Resolved, That the proceedings of the Supply Bill, 1965, this day shall be exempted from the provisions of Standing Order 12 and that the House shall not adjourn until after com pletion of the aforesaid proceedings.

THE SUPPLY BILL, 1965 Second Reading Debate resumed.
Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka hendak menjawab beberapa perkara berkaitan dengan pertahanan, dan berkenaan dengan pembangunan negara dan luar bandar Yang Berhormat Menteri Muda akan menjawab-nya.

in Sir, I would like, first, to reply to the Honourable Member for Batu.

Unfor tunately, the Honourable Member is this House.
The not present Honourable Member said that as we had to shoulder a considerable burden of defence of the country we should ask Britain, Australia, New Zealand and the United States to give better contribution for our defence.

Well, Sir, we are now facing the threat to our security, our independence, and we feel that it is necessary for us to expand our Armed Forces so that we will be able 3471 3 DECEMBER 1964 3472 to defend ourselves adequately.
The view of the Government is not for us to depend on others to defend ourselves.

We must show that we have made all efforts to defend our country ourselves before we can expect others to help us.

In any case, Sir, United Kingdom, and New Zealand have Australia assisted us and they have their troops here fighting in defence of our country and have also assisted us in equipment and also in the expansion of our Armed Forces.
I am, however, very surprised to hear the Honourable Member for Batu that we should endeavour to get other countries to assist us the defence of our country, because the Honourable Mem ber and his colleagues have always been against the Defence Treaty we have with the United Kingdom sub scribed by Australia and New Zealand.
However, Sir, it is heartening to know the Honourable Member has that considerably attitude improved his since he has sat in this House and listened to the views from this side of the House.

suggestion from the in that stated this country Next, Sir, I would like to reply to the Honourable Member from Singapore, the Barisan Sosialis.

The Honourable the Malaysian that Member Government had to go begging to the United States and Britain for protec tion.
and these nations were offering aid to Malaysia for their own interest and that by so doing this we will be turning into a battlefield.

Well, Sir, this country is already a battlefield now, and we have to defend ourselves, and because there is aggression against us by a bigger and stronger nation we have a right to ask other nations to help us and the help we have friendly countries have been given without any conditions, and the help given will not affect our sovereignty or our indepen dence.
We have so far received aid from the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand and Canada and all this help has been without any conditions.

obtained from Now, Sir, I would like to add to the the Honourable the the statement made by Prime Minister this morning on subject of our relationship with to from a visit Middle-East and African States.

As Honourable Members know, I have just four come back important States of Africa, namely, the United Arab Republic, Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia.
As the Honourable Prime Minister had explained, the Government had always endeavoured to maintain close and friendly relations with those countries in the Middle-East and in Africa.

During the visit that I have had, I was extremely pleased with the manner in which I was welcomed in all the four States.

The leaders of these countries gave me a sincere and warm welcome.
I had the opportunity of meeting the Heads of States of these four countries and to explain to them the real facts about the situation in South-East Asia, the real facts about confrontation and aggression by Indo nesia against us.

The leaders of these countries showed understanding and anxiety, and they also expressed the wish that the present trouble would be settled peacefully.

I have explained to them that we on our part are always ready and willing to find a peaceful settlement to this trouble.
But what we cannot tolerate is the use of force by Indonesia cannot tolerate this sort of aggression against our territory.

Whatever differences this country might have with another country, no country is justified to use force against another country.

Indeed if force is tolerated, then no country can be safe nor would it be possible to maintain peace in this world.
From the discussions I have had with the leaders of these countries, it is clear to me that the newly emerging African countries have understood our position and have understood our point of view.

I am very grateful to the Governments of these four countries in the way they had received my delegation and for the that was welcome and hospitality extended three countries Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia have agreed to accept diplomatic relation from Malaysia.
They have also stated that they would like to maintain close and friendly relations with us in the future.

to us.

The us—we against Now, as the Honourable Prime Minister has stated, it is the intention 3473 3 DECEMBER 1964 3474 to these countries and to visit other countries of our Government to maintain contact send with missions in Africa.

I had intended myself to visit other countries, but in view of the Budget meeting I had to get back to Kuala Lumpur.
So it had not been possible for me this occasion.

to do so on We are also, as the Prime Minister has stated, considering establishing more Missions in Africa.

Now, all these four countries I have visited, stated that they clearly understood that Malaysia is an independent and sovereign Asian nation.

This completely belies Indo nesian propaganda that we are a neo- colonialist country.

I also made clear our position regarding the Afro-Asian Conference.
It is generally agreed that the Afro-Asian Conference is geogra phical and not political and, therefore, any independent sovereign nation at the Afro-Asian region has a right to attend.

This view, I feel, is now well understood in most countries in Africa.

itu ada berkata Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka hendak menjawab Ahli Yang Berhor- mat dari Pasir Puteh.

Ahli Yang Ber- hormat bahawa mustahak-lah kita mempunyal belanja sendiri dalam hal pertahanan negara kita.
Dasar Kerajaan kita berkenaan dengan mempertahankan ia-lah kita bertanggong-jawab di-atas pertahanan ini negeri negara kita.

Tetapi kita kechil, dan kalau kita hendak mem- punyai tentera yang chukup untok pertahanan dari serangan luar tentu- akan memakan belanja yang lah tidak banyak dan kita sudah mampu hendak mengadakan belanja.

Belanja kita kehendaki bukan sahaja untok membeli senjata, membeli pakain2, membeli kapal2 dan kapal2 terbang, belanja di-kehendaki kerana membayar gaji2 dan allowance2.
Wang ini-lah kita kerana membayar gaji tidak dapat pinjam dari luar atau dapat bantuan dari luar.

Akan tetapi sedang sunggoh pun bagitu kita mengambil langkah membesar dan me- luaskan tentera2 kita supaya kita dapat mengambil bahagian yang lebeh luas lagi dalam pertahanan negara kita.
Sunggoh pun saperti saya katakan tadi, kita bertanggong-jawab penoh dalam tentu lapangan pertahanan tetapi kita sudah di-serang oleh negeri—sa-buah negeri luar; oleh itu terpaksa-lah kita minta bantuan daripada rakan2 kita yang telah bersetuju hendak memberi ban tuan.

Ini biasa di-perbuat dan men- jadi hak satu negeri di-serang saperti kita ini mendapat bantuan daripada mana2 juga negeri yang suka hendak memberi bantuan untok mempertahan kan kemerdekaan dan kehormatan negara kita.
tadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada satu perkara Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Menteri ketinggalan men- jawab-nya pada pagi ia-itu pandangan daripada Ahli Yang Ber- hormat dari Kota Star Selatan yang mengatakan Perjawatan Malaysia, atau itu sangat memegang kuat F.E.O., kapada General Orders sa-hingga merosakkan kedudokan pegawai2.
Jadi, saya suka hendak terangkan bahawa menjadi tanggong-jawab kapada pega wai2 Kerajaan menjalankan Undang2 General Orders dan biasa-nya di- dalam General Orders kita tidak ada- lah discretion yang di-berikan kapada pegawai2.
Jadi, kalau kita dapati General Orders kita itu ketat mustahak- lah kita pinda, betulkan dan longgar- tidak boleh-lahj bila kan. Jadi kita adakan Undang2 kita benarkan pega wai2 menggunakan discretion, kalau di-longgarkan Undang2 tentu-lah nanti mengkechiwakan perjalanan pentadbiran Kerajaan.

itu Tuan Yang di-Pertua, bagi akhir- nya, saya suka hendak menerangkan sadikit berkenaan dengan dasar Kera jaan hendak membaiki iktisad orang2 juga ahli2 bumiputera Melayu dan di-seluroh Malaysia ini.
Saperti yang telah di-terangkan oleh Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Menteri, Kera jaan mengadakan satu Secretariat di- Kementerian Perdagangan dan Peru- sahaan untok mengawal hal ini dan ada di-tubohkan satu Jawatan-kuasa Jema'ah Menteri yang Pengerusi-nya saya sendiri untok menimbangkan dasar2 yang patut bagi melaksanakan perkara ini.
Saya suka menegaskan di- sini bahawa Kerajaan ada-lah mengam bil berat di-atas perkara ini dan Kera jaan memikirkan ini-lah satu perkara yang penting, yang mustahak bahkan 3475 3 DECEMBER 1964 3476 ranchangan kemajuan Kerajaan akan berhasil dengan sa-penoh2-nya melain- perchaya membaiki kan Kerajaan iktisad orang2 Melayu dan juga anak2 bumiputera yang dudok di-kampong2 di-seluroh negara kita.
Saya sukachita mendengarkan buah2 fikiran yang di- datangkan oleh beberapa Ahli2 Yang Berhormat di-atas perkara ini.
Sunggoh pun pada masa ini ada satu Secre tariat dan juga ada satu Jawatan-kuasa Jema'ah Menteri yang menentukan dasar di-atas hal ini dan menyatukan langkah2 yang di-ambil oleh Kemen- terian2 dan Pejabat2 Kerajaan, tetapi Kerajaan sedang menimbangkan satu lagi untok chara yang melaksanakan dasar telah berunding dengan rakan saya Yang Berhormat Menteri Perdagangan dan Perusahaan dan telah bersetuju bahawa patut-Iah pelaksanaan di-atas perkara menolong orang2 Melayu bumiputera membaiki iktisad itu di-selenggarakan satu badan yang besendirian oleh langkah2 perjalanan dengan supaya lebeh tegas dan perasaan dapat men- datangkan hasil dengan sa-penoh2-nya (Tepok).
ini.
Saya lebeh tegas yang ranchangan2 Saperti Ahli2 Yang Berhormat sekarang ada beberapa mengetahui lembaga2 bertanggong-jawab menjalankan kemajuan untok ra'ayat saperti Lembaga Kema juan Tanah yang bertanggong-jawab membuka tanah baharu dan saya ber- chadang hendak menubohkan satu lagi Lembaga Pembenaan lembaga atau Land Rehabilitation Tanah akan bertanggong- Authority yang tanah jawab menolong menjayakan tanah2 baharu ra'ayat bukan sahaja bahkan tanah2 yang lama juga yang sedang di-punyai ra'ayat pada masa sekarang ini.
Bagitu juga rakan saya Yang Berhormat Menteri Pertanian dan Sharikat Kerjasama sedang me- ranchangkan hendak menuboh satu Lembaga Pasaran yang akan ber tanggong-jawab menolong ra'ayat dan juga pemodal2 kechil untok mendapat- kan pasaran yang sempurna dengan barang2 keluaran mereka itu.
Dengan ada-nya lembaga2 ini berma- 'ana-lah RIDA atau pun Lembaga Kemajuan dan Perusahaan yang dahulu mempunyai berbagai2 tanggong-jawab lebeh dapat di-beri tugas yang baharu, ia- tugas untok menjalankan per itu usahaan2 latehan kechil, memberi kapada orang yang hendak mengambil bahagian dalam perniagaan dan per usahaan dan memberi pinjaman untok menjayakan perusahaan2 mereka itu.
Saya dapat harap jangka panjang di-kemaskan kedudokan RIDA ini dan di-beri tugas yang baharu dan di-beri rupa dan nama yang baharu kapada RIDA ini me- ini, supaya dapat Lembaga numpukan usaha dan tenaga bagi menolong orang2 Melayu dan anak iktisad bumiputera untok membaiki dapat (Tepok).

Tidak mereka itu satu fikiran Kerajaan tiada pada ranchangan mustahak-lah di-ada- jangka pendek dan kan—ranchangan ranchangan supaya pelaksanaan dapat di-jalankan dengan lichin dan sempurna dari satu masa ka-satu masa.
Perkara ini saperti kata Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Menteri ada-lah satu perkara sukar hendak menchapai penghasilan-nya dengan memuaskan hati.

Tetapi saya yakin dan perchaya jikalau perkara ini dapat di-ator dengan sempurna dan ada satu badan yang tertentu yang akan bertanggong-jawab di-atas hal ini dan ra'ayat yang berkaitan di-beri latehan, layanan dan pertolongan yang sa-patut-nya saya yakin dan perchaya kita akan mendapat kehasilan dalam lapangan iktisad anak negeri ini.
Oleh itu saya berharap dan saya berseru supaya Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dalam Dewan ini dan juga orang2 Melayu, juga orang2 ahli2 bumiputera dan lain buah fikiran dan pandangan dalam hal ini dapat memberi kerjasama dengan Kerajaan supaya bukan sahaja dapat di-adakan satu ranchangan yang tetap bahkan dapat di-adakan pelaksanaan yang terator dari satu masa ka-satu masa.
Ini-lah dia-nya chadangan Kera jaan dalam ini dan saya lapangan harap chadangan ini dapat pandangan dan sokongan yang sempurna oleh terutama seluroh orang2 Melayu dan juga ahli2 bumi putera di-Malaysia ini.

Terima kaseh.

(Tepok) ada mempunyai ra'ayat negeri yang ini The Minister of Health (Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin): Tuan Yang 3477 3 DECEMBER 1964 3478 di-Pertua, saya suka memberi pene- soalan2 terhadap beberapa rangan dan permintaan2 yang di-hadapkan saya.
Terlebeh pada Kementerian dahulu saya uchapkan terima kaseh pada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat yang telah memberikan beberapa shor2 yang membena terhadap Kementerian saya.

Shor2 mereka itu telah di-ambil per- hatian untok di-timbangkan.

Mana yang dapat saya jawab pada masa ini saya akan jawab.
Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Johore Bharu Timor telah menyatakan bilangan Merinyu ramai bahawa jawatan- telah meletakkan Kesihatan nya oleh kerana tidak puas hati dengan tangga gaji sekarang ini dan beliau menyatakan bahawa memandang ka tugas2 mereka yang penting, pada perkara ini sangat2-lah mendukachita- kan. suka menyatakan bahawa Saya pindaan tangga gaji Merinyu Kesi hatan telah di-tambah oleh Kerajaan, dan pada masa ini satu tangga gaji baharu yang lebeh elok telah di-tawar- kan oleh Kerajaan.
Kementerian saya juga ada-lah mempertimbangkan chara2 lagi sharat2 perkhid- memperelokkan matan Merinyu Kesihatan itu.

Ahli Yang Berhormat itu juga telah menarek perhatian berkenaan dengan kekurangan doktor di-pusat2 kesihatan, terutama sa-kali doktor gigi.

Beliau menyatakan sa-kali pun banyak anak2 tetapi negeri mempunyai kelayakan, oleh kerana tidak tangga gaji yang memuaskan, mereka enggan berkhid- mat dengan kerajaan.
Saya suka me nyatakan bahawa kita semua ma'alum, tangga gaji doktor2 perubatan dan juga doktor2 gigi telah di-pinda dan di- perbaiki baharu2 ini ia-lah bertujuan supaya doktor2 anak negeri tidak ragu2 memberi kapada perkhidmatan-nya negara.

Tambahan pula doktor2 pada ini sangat kekurangan.

Tuan2 masa lebeh ma'alum tentang pendapatan doktor private berlipat kali ganda daripada pendapatan menjadi doktor Kerajaan.
Kementerian saya juga ada- lah sentiasa berikhtiar menambah bilangan doktor2, sama ada dari dalam negeri atau daripada luar negeri untok berkhidmat dengan Kerajaan.

ia Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Jitra telah telah menyatakan bahawa memberitahu tentang kenaikan gaji baharu ada-lah sa-mata2 bagi pegawai perubatan dan doktor gigi yang ber- pegawai2 jawatan tetap, manakala perubatan sa-chara kontrek dan semen- tara, tidak dapat kenaikan gaji.
Ber ini, Yang kenaan dengan perkara Amat Berhormat Tunku Perdana Menteri, telah memberi jawapan tadi.

Saya suka menambah bahawa urusan ini ada-lah sedang di-jalankan me- minda surat2 perjanjian kontrek mereka supaya membolehkan pembaya- itu ini.

ran dahulu Nyata-lah salah faham timbul, oleh kerana urusan tersebut mengambil masa sadikit.
tangga gaji baharu Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Temerloh perubatan telah meminta pegawai Kementerian Kesihatan di-tukarkan dengan pegawai gigi, ini di-lakukan dan mereka berasa tidak puas hati, tetapi mereka di-tukarkan ka-tempat2 terpenchil.

Beliau menambah yang juga men- kata sa-kira-nya mereka chuaikan itu, hendak- tindakan di-ambil oleh kerana lah sangat2 mustahak mereka itu ber khidmat dengan penoh setia supaya perkhidmatan mereka terjamin.
tugas mereka ta'at sebab terpenchil, termasok-lah Suka saya mengesahkan memang- lah saya jadi dasar Kementerian menukarkan pegawai2 dengan chara bergilir2 supaya seberapa boleh peluang yang di-beri sama kapada mereka itu berkhidmat di-bandar2 dan juga di-tempat2 yang sa-kali pun bagitu, di-sebabkan oleh bebe rapa keadaan kekurangan doktor yang di-hadapi pada masa sekarang ini tidak-lah dapat di-jalankan dengan sa- penoh-nya.
Sa-lain daripada meriitek beratkan mustahak-nya bagi mereka dengan itu memberi perkhidmatan penoh tertib, Kementerian saya memang sedia meng tegas kapada ambil mereka2 yang nyata menchuaikan ke- wajipan-nya.

tindakan yang jawab dan ini.
Dasar tanggong Ahli yang Berhormat dari Muar berkenaan Utara beruchap Majlis Penasihat Kebangsaan dalam telah 3479 3 DECEMBER 1964 3480 dan daripada Kementerian saya, dan meminta supaya sa-orang wakil Meshuarat Raja2 dan sa-orang wakil Jabatan Ugama di-lantek menjadi ahli, sebab2 mustahak di-lantek kata Yang Ber- hormat itu, ia-lah supaya buah fikiran itu boleh di-dapati, mithal- mereka nya dalam perkara mengkebumikan jenazah orang Melayu, ia-itu orang2 Islam, juga mengkhatankan kanak2.
Shor2 Yang Berhormat itu saya akan di-beri ambil perhatian dan pertimbangan yang sa-wajar-nya, sa- kali pun saya perchaya pada masa ini perkara2 itu ada-lah di-lakukan de ngan sempurna-nya.

Yang Berhormat itu juga telah meminta supaya meng- adakan Pembantu Rumah Sakit yang chukup bilangan-nya untok menjalan- kanak2.

kan Kementerian saya memang kurang pegawai2 sekarang ini, sa-kali pun bagitu, shor yang membena itu telah saya ambil ingatan dan akan di- laksanakan.
tugas mengkhatankan Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Seberang Utara ter- telah menarek perhatian hadap tuntutan Kesatuan Sakerja Pem bantu2 Rumah Sakit supaya kesatuan itu di-iktiraf dan di-terima mengambil rundingan pindaan bahagian dalam gaji Pembantu2 Rumah Sakit.

itu.
itu.

Kita Perkara pindaan gaji ini ia-lah di- bavvah urusan Whitley Council, dalam Jabatan Perdana Menteri dan Kemen terian saya tidak mengambil bahagian dalam perundingan sedar beberapa kesulitan harus akan timbul sekira-nya perkara pindaan gaji itu di-rundingkan dengan lebeh daripada satu kesatuan sahaja yang harus ber- pendapatan berlainan.

Sa-kali pun bagitu, suka saya menyatakan Kemen terian saya telah menjalankan sa-genap ikhtiar supaya perkara ini dapat di- selesaikan dengan segera.
Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kota Star telah berchakap atas soal bidan2 yang sangat muda yang tidak berumah tangga di-pileh oleh Kerajaan.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya sendiri dalam lawatan saya telah mendapati keadaan bagitu, dan kerana telah beri arahan supaya sa-berapa boleh- nya di-pileh bidan2 yang tua sadikit dan ada berumah tangga dan daripada itu saya kawasan2 di-mana bidan2 itu akan di- sa-telah berlateh.
Dalam tempatkan pilehan bidan2 ini saya telah meminta Kerajaan Negeri mengambil bahagian dengan menghantar sa-orang wakil dudok dalam Jawatan-kuasa Pemilehan itu.

The Honourable Member for Tan- jong stressed on the importance of the the urgent need nation's health and the for more doctors, especially present situation of confrontation.
I wish to assure the Honourable Member that, as I have repeatedly stated in public, my Ministry is making every endeavour to recruit more and more doctors, whether from abroad.

locally or in in of the establishment this country.
The Honourable Member also a suggested Medical Research Council and that of an Academy of Medicine in order to improve the standard and studies of medicine this connection, I wish to state that it has always been our policy, having due regard to our special circumstances, to maintain and, wherever possible, improve the standard of medicine in this country.

I wish to assure him that his suggestions will be given due consideration.
In The Honourable Member alleged that Government does not seem to be aware of the facilities that were pro vided whereby our own local graduates can undertake post-graduate training at Singapore with the help of the ex perts from Australia.

I wish to state here that Government is fully aware of the facilities provided and is making full use of such facilities.

For example, in 1963, three Government doctors attended courses for the M.R.A.C.P.

and the primary F.R.A.C.S.

in Singa pore.


The Honourable Member also drew attention to the need for a new ward block at the Penang General Hospital.

I wish to assure the House that the needs not only of the Penang General Hospital but of all hospitals and areas in the country are always under con stant review in my Ministry.

Necessary measures to meet these needs on a 3481 3 DECEMBER 1964 3482 priority basis within our limitations will be taken.
financial to small increase is very to meet the provisions for The Honourable Member for Batu referred the Mmistry of Health in the 1965 Esti mates and suggested that the percent age and the Ministry's insufficient needs.

Well, I am very grateful to him for making this suggestion.

I, of course, would like verv much to see that the Ministry of Health be given a bigger percentage increase for 1965.
How ever, having regard the present position the various urgent priorities, I am happy to state that the Government has generously considered and provided for the needs of my in Ministry estimates; 1965 especially in our present situation you just cannot have everything you want.
and the to The Honourable Member also stated that during the last sitting of Parlia ment his allegation of shortage of drugs and other medical stores in the hospitals had been categorically denied by me, and that there was no shortage, but he went on to say that the Hon ourable Member for Telok Anson recently sent a telegram to me implor ing assistance to remedy the shortage of drugs and medical stores in the Telok Anson Hospital.
In this con nection, Sir, I wish to repeat a state ment, a press release, sent by my Ministry.

namely, that adequate funds are available for the purchase of drugs and stores, but that it would seem, in the case of Perak, that there has been an unwise distribution of the sums made available.

An investigation into the details of this unwise distri bution is being undertaken.
In regard to the telegram referred to, I am afraid the Honourable Member for Telok Anson has, rather unfortunately, made a mountain out of a mole hill.

The temporary shortage of Telok Anson has been met.

I can assure the House that there is an adequate supply of drugs available at any time in our stores.

Thank You.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: On a point of explanation, Sir.

The Minister has said that there was an adequate supply the hospitals.

He referred of drugs and medical stores in the stores.
Well, that is entirety a different thing from having an adequate supply to a in telegram and ·other press releases, but can we have an explanation of that?

There is a little difference between adequate supply the stores and in adequate supply in the theatres and in the wards.

There is a little difference which, perhaps, might have escaped the Honourable Minister.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Mr Speaker, Sir, it is all a question of inter-arrangements in each State.
If one hospital is short of any particular drug, it can ask from another hospital through the State Medical and Health Officer.

The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Dr Lim Swee Aun): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Member for Pasir Puteh quoted Professor Ungku Aziz in describing the reser vation of shares in pioneer companies as a "Kachang Goreng Economy".

Sir, there seems to be a widespread misunderstanding as to what my Ministry is trying to do to assist in the Malay economy.
its effort The Alliance Government is pledged to raise the economic level of the Malays as a whole.

The work is divided amongst the various Minis tries-sometimes the work of one Ministry overlaps the work of another in the Malays.

to assist Generally speaking, the Ministry of Rural Development and the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives work towards raising the standard of living of the rural Malays.

Land is given to the landless, productivity of the farmer, increased.
Capital the fishermen in loans from RIDA are given, and co-operatives formed to assist in marketing and increasing the cash earnings of the Malays.

These are some of the efforts to raise the Malay economy as a whole.

is the form of My Ministry, the Ministry of Cpm merce and Industry, is charged with the work of assisting the Malays to take greater participation in commerce 3483 3 DECEMBER 1964 3484 and industry.
Sir, this is only one section of the work of the Alliance Government in its overall effort to raise the economic position of the Malays.

As such, therefore, my Ministry endeavours to do its best to see that more and more Malays take part in trade, business,es industries needless to say, taking part in com merce and industry means capital participation, with the expectation of through profits.

But capital growth first you must have the capital.
and Where there is lack of capital, my Ministry tries to make it easier for the Malays to borrow such capital from RIDA, the Sharikat Kewangan or the banks.

As one of the means to collect capital, the Sharikat Permodalan Ke bangsaan was formed so that a great number of Malays with small capital can usefully pool their resources for investment.
With the advent of industrial development, the formation of new pioneer companies gave my Ministry the wonderful opportunity set aside or to reserve some of the shares for Malays so that they can participate in industry easier.

to two companies investment There are types of pioneer companies-private and public.

The reservation of shares in both these types of pioneer companies gives the Malay individuals with capital and the Malay the opportunity to choose where and how they can invest.
We have now included the Tabong Haji as a Malay institution which can receive shares reserved by pioneer companies for Malay partici pation.

the Malays can actively participate in the management of the firm if they so wish.

In private companies In this way, the Malay with capital can go into joint-venture with others who have the technical skills.

In this way, not only can the Malay learn the problems of trade and industry but also feel that his capital is reason ably secure.
In time, with capital growth, he can then venture on his own.

As I have tried to explain, Sir, my Ministry is charged with assisting the Malay to take a more active part in commerce and industry.

My Ministry is not wholly responsible for uplifting the economy of the Malays as a whole.

This is the responsibility of the whole Government.
In the light of my explanation I therefore cannot understand why the reservation of shares for Malays in pioneer companies should be criticised by a section of Malays and described as a "Kachang Goreng Economy".

Does it mean that the Malays should not buy shares and own shares in the newly emerging factories that will probably be the backbone of our economy in the future?

Should they let these opportunities pass by?


Does it mean that by reserving these shares, it will be detrimental to those Malays who wish to associate themselves with commerce and industry?

I am glad that there are some Malays who do not think so.

I am glad to note that even the Honourable Enche' Rahim Ishak of Singapore, of the so-called Socialist Peoples' Action Party, wants to create a Malay capitalist class, but, as he says, we must first create a rich Malay middle class.
Sir, I believe that that this can be one of the ways achieved through Malays buying shares in industrial companies.

is I take May this opportunity to remind the Honourable Member for Pasir Puteh that it is not only the Central Government but also all State Governments, including the State of Kelantan, that they are equally res ponsible to raise the economic situation of the Malays.

May I ask him what his P.M.l.P.

Government has done for the Malays.


Sir, as you have just heard, the Honourable Deputy Prime Minister had stated that the Government pro poses to establish a separate new body to be the responsible economic level of the Malays.

raising for Now, I come to the Honourable Member for Batu.

In condemning our 3485 3 DECEMBER 1964 3486 industrialisation programmes, he asked the Honourable Prime Minister to set up a commission of inquiry.
He claims that the pioneer industries have not benefited the country; instead they have cheated the people.

He sees in the pioneer for "foreign capitalists to squeeze out local capital from our market".

I am astounded at the great concern of the for Batu—a Honourable Member good socialist—over the local capitalists.

industries a means the fate of Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, on a point of clarification.

I did mention that I was not concerned over them.

To me both foreign and local capitalists are the same.
I am only posing this question to the Honourable Minister.

the one hand Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Speaker, Sir, on the Honourable Member condemns the local capitalists as blood suckers and exploiters of the peasants and workers; on the other hand, he condemns foreign capitalists for trying to squeeze local capitalists.

The Honourable member for Batu must apparently be a person with a split personality like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Sir, he says he does not drink alcohol because he is a good Methodist as well as being allergic to alcohol.

(Laughter).

One wonders how much money he has in vested in shares and how much pro perty he owns.

He can be a good socialist as well as a good capitalist one at the same time!

(Laughter).

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: On a point of clarification—I do not take alcohol because I cannot afford that luxury.

to that that you are allergic Dr Lim Swee Aun: But you did it?

admit (Laughter).
admit (Laughter).

In any case, Sir, after listening to his tirade against industri alists, one can conclude the Socialist Front intends to keep Malay sia a backward agricultural country.

is against our The Socialist Front manufacture goods because he claims that it is cheaper to import such than the Socialist goods.

In other words Front prefers us to continue to sell raw commodities and import manufactured to manufacture consumer of goods because they are cheaper.
Surely, the Honourable Member for Batu must know that because of the continued fall in prices of primary commodities we must take steps to diversify our economy.

Our earnings from exports are not of primary sufficient to pay for the increased cost of consumer and other manufactured goods that we must import.

That is the problem of all developing and to under-developed earn more to pay for our imports, countries—how commodities The Honourable Member appears to be a widely-read scholar.
He may have skipped through the report on the economic aspects of Malaysia by a Mission of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development led by Governor Rueff in 1963.

Now, in the chapter which deals with the economic promise of merger, besides agricultural in expansion, paragraph 30 on page 9 : says it "It is, however, in manufacturing that the greatest potential lies.
On the basis of com parisons with other developing countries, it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that a rapid expansion of manufacturing is over due in Malaysia."

The problem is "How?"

The Socialist Front has always preached a plan of centrally-controlled economy, an that economy is monopolistic, an economy that will not countenance foreign investments.

In the eyes of the Socialist Front any capital, foreign or local, must be nationalised.
Yet the Honourable Member quoted Silcock and Fisk condemning the evils of monopoly.

We, however, have faith in a free economy, where free competi tion and free price levels offer the consumers all freedom of choice.

As we do not have the technical skills, the fastest way to industrialise is to start attract factories in Malaysia.

Let us be honest with ourselves.

The profit motive is still the strongest attraction for invest ment.
The Honourable Member for Batu may have the greatest dedication for service to the people but at the same in opening his private medical clinic the profit motive would surely not be absent.

(Laughter).

To stimulate a faster pace of industrialisa tion the pioneer status was introduced.

investors foreign time to 3487 3 DECEMBER 1964 3488 In the pioneer The Honourable Member for Batu legislation on criticised grounds of excessive generosity and evil social effects.
support, he quoted from the World Bank Report of 1954.

Sir, may I point out that that Report was written during the colonial era ten years ago.

It is hardly rele vant—ten years later—as a commen tary on the policies of an independent nation which began to form its own independent policies three years after that Report was written.
It is, perhaps, more appropriate, however, for me to recommend to the Honourable Mem ber, and any other Honourable Mem bers of similar persuasion, to read and study the whole of the Rueff Report written in July 1963, when attempting to broaden their understanding on the nature of Malaysia's economy and economic requirements.

What does the World Bank in 1963 the pioneer status policy in say of general?
On page 32 it says: "The Mission accordingly recommends that, in preparing the new legislation that will be to harmonize pioneer industry policies, consideration be given to expanding the legislation and the scope of the concessions."

industrial coverage of required the It is very clear that it recommends "expansion" and not "contraction" of the concessions so far given.

Sir, this is a plain endorsement of the basic principles of the pioneer status idea.

Have pioneer the Rueff Report again.


industries brought about benefits to this country?

Let me quote In paragraph 82 on page 26, it is stated: "The recent growth of the manufacturing sector appears to have been rapid, parti cularly in Malaya; the net value of output in Malaya probably rose by over 30% between 1959 and 1961, accompanied by a rise of around 26% in salaries and wages Employment in the sector paid rose by about 15% .

.. .
.. .

the establishment of pioneer firms playing a large part in this development."

How can the Honourable Member for Batu claim that pioneer industries have not brought any benefit to the country?

the risk of Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, at the Honourable Minister, I wish to correct certain statements of his.

Firstly, we industrialisation or are not against interrupting diversification of the economy of this country as alleged by the Minister that I have said so.

I said nothing of that sort.


Secondly, we are only against the special treatment that is given to the pioneer industries.

Thirdly, he said that we were against monopolistic enter prises.

Yes, we are against the mono polistic enterprises in the private sector but not in the State sector.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: He wants to eat the cake and have it at the same time, Sir!

In any case, in the last five years, a total of $500 million have been com mitted in the form of paid-up and loan capital in pioneer projects.
About $200 million is local capital investment in the manufacturing sector.

Up to the third quarter of this year, 248 com panies have been granted pioneer status; slightly more than half of these companies are already in production.

More than 18,000 people are already in these factories.

directly employed the More will be employed when remaining factories are opened.

labour indirect What about the indirect increase in employment as a result of the setting up of these pioneer factories?
Take the plywood factories, for example.

The demand for timber logs has found new employment for loggers in the forests.

The increased transportation has found work for the drivers and the manual workers.

The coir factory in Pontian has found new for rural folk to go collecting coconut husks to feed the mills.

These are but a few examples.

The factories estab lished so far may be described as pro ducers of consumer goods.

But they have a cumulative and multiplier effect.


The finished products of one factory raw materials of may become another factory.

With the growth of industrialisation, there is also a growth in the demand for raw materials thus creating new agricultural products.

The establishment of the sugar refinery has stimulated interests in the planting of sugar cane.

The growing number of animal feed mills has created a demand jagong.
These new- for maize or for demands have paved diversification agricultural economy.

the way our the of 3489 3 DECEMBER 1964 3490 through exports of The Honourable Member for Batu has scorned the value of import sub stitution.

He says that we only manu facture what we used to import before, and that this is not real industrialisa tion.
Little does he realise that by manufacturing consumer goods that we once imported, we are not only saving foreign a considerable amount of exchange, but we are also training people to acquire managerial and technical skills so as to fit them for the manufacture of more sophisticated goods later on.

Not only have we been saving foreign exchange, our pioneer factories are already earning foreign their exchange manufactured goods.
In 1961, 27 pioneer factories exported slightly over $15 million worth of goods, which are feeds, as cement admixture, batteries, paints and enamels, tooth paste, medical supplies, pharmaceutical supplies, crown corks, sulphuric rayon yarn, electric cables, textiles, particle board, essences, metal containers, plastics, matches, metal louvre windows, con densed milk, tyres.
Exports were shipped to 23 different countries with the United Kingdom, West Germany and Hong Kong leading, followed by Thailand, Denmark, the United States of America, Cambodia, Burma, Ceylon and fourteen other countries.

Since 1961, our exports of manufactured and semi-manufactured goods have consi derably increased, so much so that we now have a little trade dispute with the United Kingdom over the question of quota for textiles.
as varied animal acid, spun The Honourable Member for Batu has alleged that protective duties have been the cause of the higher prices of goods.

One must realise that except for the United Kingdom, every other industrialised country has been able to successfully industrialise because of a protective tariff wall.

This is necessary for to survive against the competition of exports of industrialised countries.

Sometimes these exports are sold cheaper abroad than at home.
As I once said in this House, it is cheaper to buy a camera or a transistor, watch or "Arrow" shirt in Malaysia than in the country of industries infant the to find markets for origin.

Why?

It is because the exporting countries want to earn foreign exchange and also their surplus production capacity.

In a sense goods manufactured in small volume by a developing country can sometimes imported not be cheaper article.
than the those efficient However, it is our policy to protect only factories whose products are up to standard and where imported we know competition from goods have not been fair.

In most cases where protection has been given, the manufacturers have undertaken not to increase their sale the prices without prior consent of Government.

Such examples are tyres, enamel utensils, galvanised iron sheets and sugar.

If consumers prefer to buy the they must pay a higher price.
The choice is still with the consumer.

In any case, Sir, protection is a temporary measure to launch our infant industries.

imported equivalents, then charged the Government The Honourable Member from Batu has of cheating the people by giving pioneer status to two factories producing the same product but belonging the same company.

He cited the case of Par Paint and Metal Box, who both have a plant each in Singapore and in the Federation.
to Surely the Honourable Member is not so absent-minded a Socialist as to forget that Malaysia was only formed on the 16th September of 1963.

Before that date, Singapore and the Federation of Malaya were two separate countries two separate governments and with both had different industrialisation programmes.

Par Paint and Metal Box were thus given pioneer status by both these separate governments before Malaysia was formed.
However, with the formation of Malaysia and with the the Federal industrial Development Authority Bill a few days ago, industrial development policy has been centralised and such double issue of pioneer certificates to the same company producing the same product will not recur.

recent passing of The Honourable Member has stated that pioneer status has caused foreign 3491 3 DECEMBER 1964 3492 that the policy of capital to squeeze local capitalists out of the market.
How gullible can the Honourable Member be?

Surely he must know the Government is to give pioneer status to joint-ventures of foreign and local capital.

We do not believe in squeezing anybody out but the Socialist Front believes in squeezing everybody out through nationalisation.

The Honourable Member for Batu quoted Silcock and Fisk on the evils of monopoly and monopsony.

We fully agree that there should be free competition—in fact, Sir, that is our policy of free enterprise.
But let me quote the Rueff Report, paragraph 95, page 31— that to its size will be only "While this potential domestic market is the it has become clear substantial, Mission just adequate to support efficient production in a number of important fields."
In other words, the domestic market for a number of important products will be just large enough to support efficient production, just large enough for a very limited number of efficient sized plants to operate economically and perhaps in some fields only one.

If we were to have industries in these to compete with foreign fields able tariff competitors, without excessive protection with higher prices to the consumer, these industries may have to be limited to very few companies.
This is a fact of economics and engineering and cannot be brushed aside by care less oratory.

I assure this House that in these is being made to cases every effort these avoid possible ill effects from circumstances the granting of in pioneer certificates.

In any case, Sir, there is no law to prevent another non- pioneer factory to be set up to manu facture the same product and, in fact, this has happened already.
The Honourable Member from Batu charged the Government of discrimina tion against the Federation of Malaya Fertilizer and Paper Industrial Co operative Society Ltd in that it turned down their application to manufacture urea.

In 1960 the Government carefully factory the proposed urea studied project and came to the conclusion that it was no economically feasible, i.e., the project would not be profi table and that there was a likelihood of losing thousands of Malays their hard-earned capital.
the From statistics, 90% of the 65,000 tons of nitrogenous fertilisers imported in 1960 was in the form of inorganic ammonium salts.

Urea, also a nitro genous fertiliser, was used in compara tively small amounts as it was not suitable as an all-purpose fertiliser.

The Co-operative Society proposed to put up a urea plant with a capacity of 30,000 tons of urea a year although the market was considerably smaller.
A plant of such a size, which is the smallest economic size, would involve a capital investment of $30 million.

If there is no assured market for such large quantities of urea that will be manufactured, how can the project be viable?

To borrow money to invest in a project that has doubtful marketing prospects is certainly a bad business proposition.

It was on these grounds that the Government advised the Co-operative Society to drop their project.
Instead the Co-operative Society has agreed to take capital participation in the Chemi cal Company of Malaysia Ltd, a joint- venture with I.C.I.

(Malaya) Ltd to manufacture ammonium nitrate and other mixed fertilisers which have an assured market the process of manufacturing fertilisers, the Chemical Company of Malaysia raw material, the Ltd will draw ammonia, a by-produce of oil refining, from Esso Standard Malaya Ltd.
In this way, the capital of the Malay Co operative Society invested fertiliser manufacturing in a sound company.

in Malaysia.

In is safely How then has the Government discriminated against the Malay Co operative Society?
In fact, the Govern ment has safeguarded the hard-earned money of thousands of Malays from being lost in a doubtful project and instead has found for them a sound investment in the Chemical Company of Malaysia Ltd. the 3493 3 DECEMBER 1964 3494 The Honourable Member from Batu from the Honourable Member and Seberang Selatan wanted to know why after nine long years the paper factory using padi straw as the raw material, proposed by the same Federation of Malaya Fertiliser and Paper Industrial Co-operative Society Ltd, had not yet materialised.
Sir, this is a very sensitive question, highly charged with emotion, but I will try to answer it as best as I can.

There are several reasons why there is this delay.

As Honourable Members are aware, paper can be made from wood, bamboo, sugar-cane bagasse, old cloth, wastepaper and padi straw.

The pro blem is, can a factory making paper from padi straw alone be a viable pro position?

And can the price of the finished product compete effectively raw with paper made materials?
There is no question as to whether paper can be made out of padi straw.

The question is the cost of production and whether it can com pete in a highly competitive market.

from other As Honourable Members know, Malaysia is endowed with rich forests and we do know there are several species of soft wood that can be used to manufacture paper.

Again, there is a great possibility of planting a species of pine on a large scale to produce paper pulp in Malaysia.
Then again, there have been success ful experiments that have shown that it is economic to produce paper from rubber wood.

This will bring great benefits to the nation.

In the light of these known facts, the Government has invited internationally known paper experts from abroad to come here to study the whole question in of setting up a paper Malaysia.

Their reports on the making of paper out of padi straw have been studied very carefully by the Government.
industry I have visited the only factory in Taiwan using padi straw to make card board.

They do not make paper out of padi straw.

They have to add pulp from sugar-cane bagasse to make the different types of cardboard.

The only factory in Japan using padi straw also does not make paper.

It only produces pulp for sale to other factories that make paper.

I am told there is one such factory in Thailand but this factory is using bamboo pulp in addition to padi straw.
I am not able to say how successful the paper factory using rice straw is, in Egypt.

the rice straw as and Thailand Sir, these are the only four factories in the whole world that I know of that are using raw material in the making of paper pro ducts.

I am told that the factories in are Japan, Taiwan finding it difficult to compete with other factories.

To set up a small factory as proposed by the co-operative society will cost $30 million.
The co-operative society is already committed to proceed with building the factory using padi straw.

A down payment the machine has been made.

If the co operative society had the capital to proceed with the project there would have been no delay.

Unfortunately it has not.

Because of this our Prime Minister has promised financial support to the society.

for My Ministry has therefore blocked all other applications to set up paper factories using other raw materials.
This goes to show and to prove how sincere the Government is in seeing that the co-operative project should be launched first.

This, Sir, is the position as it is today.

My Ministry is exploring ways and means how to salvage this project.

I am in close touch with my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture and Co operatives, on this matter and I am confident that a satisfactory solution could be found very soon.
Mr Speaker, Sir, you will see, there fore, that the Honourable Member for Batu has made unfounded charges against the Government.

The Pioneer Industries Ordinance has been so successful and has brought so much benefit that other the country developing countries in the world are copying our pattern.

to 3495 3 DECEMBER 1964 3496 In Jamaica, another newly indepen they have even gone dent country, further.
They have offered ten years tax holiday for the establishment of factories, and another five, making a total of 15 years tax holiday, if the factory is sited in a rural area or a depressed area.

Others have welcomed one hundred per cent foreign capital in the estab lishment of factories in the belief that this is a faster method of industrialisa tion.

They see in Canada and Austra lia which adopted the great benefits brought to those coun tries.
this system, are treading the We, however, joint- middle course.

We ventures.

We have in launching a fast pace in industrialisa tion.

succeeded insist on In our handling of our industrial development programme, we have attracted favourable attention through out the world—in both the developed and developing countries.
We have earned the distinction of having one of the best investment climates in the world and despite confrontation, we are still continuing to receive applica tions for the setting up of factories in joint-venture in Malaysia.

to listen Mr Speaker, Sir, we are indeed very happy the Honourable to Member for Batu—we are democratic, we believe in giving all, particularly the Members of the Opposition, the right and the freedom to speak.
But the more we listen to the Honourable Member for Batu the more we begin to wonder whether the Honourable Member has a logical mind.

Sir, take the case of his support for the further increase of duty on liquor.

He stated that he was aware that the level had been reached when there was diminishing returns .. .

.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, I did not say that.

To my mind, the law of diminishing returns has not been reached.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Speaker, Sir, may I refer you to Command Paper No.
40 of 1964, which I am sure the Honourable Member must have studied.

On page 7, under paragraph 2, Import Duties and Excise, the import duty on spirit in 1963 (Actual) was $20.6 million, it was $20 in 1964 million—a reduction of $0.6 million.

In respect of excise duty on spirit it was $4.1 million in 1963, $4 million in 1964—a reduction of $0.1 million.

He did mention that the level had been reached where there was dimini liquor.

shing returns from duty on Yet .

.. .


Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification.

The Minister persists in putting words in my mouth which I did not say.

I reiterate, I do not consider that the law of diminishing returns has been reached despite the figures quoted by the Honourable Minister.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I supported the proposal by the Honourable Member for Pasir Puteh that there should be a further tax on liquor.
Dr Lim Swee Aun: Be that as it may, Sir, these figures show that there is already diminishing returns and he supports it, despite the fact that there are facts, proved here in this paper, that there is diminishing returns.

Sir, although agreeing that 2 + 2 is 4, he still supports that 2 + 2 is equal to 3.

I do not know what logic that may be, Sir, but apparently that seems to be the tenor of his argument.
Several Members of the Opposition, including the Members of the P.A.P., have expressed concern that the new turnover and payroll taxes will affect our industrial development programme.

They have expressed fears that these new taxes may drive capital away.

Mr Speaker, Sir, what does this mean?

Is this not an affirmation, an acknowledgment, that the present in dustrial development has been pro gressing successfully and has brought great benefit to the country?
Coming from the Opposition, this to Government's is a great the pioneer policy in their industries programme.

Deep in hearts they know and they admit that tribute introducing 3497 3 DECEMBER 1964 3498 we have done a good job.

They have that these pioneer in acknowledged dustries have brought benefit to the country and are now afraid that these new taxes may slow down the genera tion of further benefits.

free We can assure them that they can allay their fears.
We have a good investment climate and because of our policy of enterprise, factories will be built as long as there is profit to be made.

These taxes are not so deterrent as nationalisation of capital.

As long as there is profit to be made, factories will be built.

private one Honourable Member Sir, factories dis that certain claimed criminated against Malay in labour that Malays were paid $3 a day whilst non-Malays were paid $6 a day.
I, myself, have visited many factories all over Malaysia and I cannot say that it is true that some Malays are paid $3 a day.

But it is also true that there are many non-Malays who are also paid $3 a day.

This is because they .

are apprentices .. .

Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya minta penjelasan.
saya Berhubong dengan apa yang sebutkan dalam Dewan ini menganak- tirikan buroh2 Melayu, saya gemar merojokkan kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri berita dapat membacha akhbar Utusan Melayu yang keluar pada Port Swettenham, ia-itu berhubong dengan pentadbiran baharu2 ini, orang2 Melayu hanya di-beri satu bulan 4 hari, orang2 yang bukan Melayu di-beri peluang bekerja satu bulan 20 hari.

Ini satu alasan yang menunjokkan perbezaan antara buroh Melayu dengan buroh yang bukan Melayu, terima kaseh.
tempat-nya hari ini, Dr Lim Swee Aun: Sir, as I said these are apprentices who are learning a trade in factories and damaging a fair amount of materials at the expense of the employers, but they are still paid whilst they learn.

However, when they become skilled—this depends on how long they are able to learn: some take three months, some take longer— they are paid a higher rate of pay.

in skills.
in skills.

Sir, Now, in the case quoted by the Honourable Member just now, these Malays are given four days employ ment in a month and that non-Malays are given 20 days employment in a month.

That possibly may be due to some their various factories I have found that the highest paid skilled labour are Malays.

If the Honourable Members are interested they can visit one factory in Johore.
In an Aluminium Utensil Factory there are several Malays who are paid higher than the non-Malays because they are the more aluminium the difference in wage is not due to race but according to the skill of the worker.

turning out into utensils.

Sir, skilled in The Honourable Enche' Stephen Yong from Sarawak wanted to know why we do not sell more rubber to Communist countries, especially China, and what is the result of the Rubber Trade Mission.
The Honourable Member for Pontian Selatan would like the Government to sell our rubber and tin to the Afro- the Communist Asian countries and bloc and be less dependent on the United States market.

Sir, let me first take our policy on international trade.

Except for South Africa—and now Indonesia—we trade with every country the world regardless of its ideology.

In 1963 we imported $287.6 million worth of goods from China and exported to her only $16.5 million.
We buy in the cheapest market and sell in the highest market.

in In the case of rubber and tin we must remember that these two primary commodities are raw industrial mate that are bought and used by rials industrialised countries.

The more industrialised the countries the more rubber and tin they will buy.

But it is also the industrialised countries that produce synthetic rubber that can be a substitute for natural rubber in many uses.
However, we are fortunate that because of certain special qualities of natural rubber we are able to sell every pound of rubber and tin, and many like us are still developing countries.

to find Therefore, our opportunities the Afro-Asian new markets in 3499 3 DECEMBER 1964 3500 countries are unlimited.

However, we have been able to find markets of considerable size in Japan, India and the United Arab Republic.

With regard to the Communist bloc we have been able to continue selling rubber to them.
In fact, this bloc forms one of our most important buyers.

In 1963 the Communist countries bought 256,485 tons of rubber from us.

This is equal to 21.9 per cent of our total export of rubber.

Next to the United States is our the Communist bloc biggest buyer of rubber.

At the end of 1963 a Malaysian Rubber Trade and visited Western Goodwill Mission Europe and the Eastern bloc, including Russia.
The Mission contacts with importers and users of natural rubber there, promoted goodwill and under standing, studied and discussed pro blems which would help to facilitate export of natural these countries.

In the face of competition from synthetic rubber, we must pro mote sales and establish goodwill with buyers in every country.
the countries of established rubber to Sir, to obtain the Honourable Member for Muar Utara remarked that the assis tance given to Malay smallholders to replant is not satisfactory.

On the other hand, he claimed that the assistance to non-Malays is such that it enables them to purchase estates which they then subdivide the benefits of Fund "B".

Further, he stated that the response by Malay smallholders to replanting had not been good.
He claimed that out of 7,000 acres re planted only 25 per cent of the area belongs to the Malays.

This, he said, was because of the difficulties put in the way of Malay smallholders when they want to replant.

He suggested that the Rubber Replanting Board take over all the rubber land owned by Malay smallholders and employ con tractors to replant them and after six trees are to seven years when tappable the Board should then hand back the replanted areas to the small holders.
Mr Speaker, Sir, may I cate gorically state, here and now, that there is no discrimination between the races in the matter of the rate of assistance the to replant rubber.

All the estates, that is, those Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, untok penjelasan.
Saya hendak membetulkan apa yang di- chakapkan oleh Menteri Perdagangan dan Perusahaan, saya tidak menyebut sa-kali2 berhubong ada perbezaan dengan getah bantuan menanam antara orang Melayu dengan orang yang bukan Melayu, tetapi perkem- bangan yang kita dapat orang yang bukan Melayu lebeh banyak ada mengambil bahagian dalam perusahaan menanam getah sa-mula, jadi orang Melayu sangat kurang dengan sebab ada kesulitan2 kapada mereka itu.

Itu- lah apa yang saya chakapkan tempoh hari.


Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Speaker, Sir, all the estates, i.e., those owning more than 100 acres of rubber land, are assisted at the rate of $400 per acre.

In the case of smallholders, i.e., those owning less than 100 acres, they are entitled to the following rates of assis tance : (i) $750 per acre for all small holders; and (ii) those who have less than five acres are given a total of $800 per acre.
May that I, however, point out because many Malay smallholders own less than five acres, they, in fact, are eligible to the higher rate?

It is not true that out of 7,000 acres replanted, only 25% of this acreage belongs to the Malays.

Figures kept by the Replanting Board for the period 1953 to 1963 show that of the total smallholdings replanted, 54% or 75,987 holdings belong to the Malays; 43% the or 60,631 holdings belong Chinese and 3% or 2,552 holdings belong to others.
to It is true that some people have bought estates of over 100 acres, sub divided them and replanted them under Fund "B".
But I must point out that since 1st of January, 1960, legislation was introduced so that all subdivided lots, formerly forming part of an estate of over 100 acres, will only be admitted into the smallholders' replanting scheme 3501 3 DECEMBER 1964 3502 on the condition that an amount equal to what would have been the replanting cess at the rate of 4 1/2 cents per pound of rubber produced during the period when the lot existed as an estate under Fund "A", will be deducted from the total grant payable under Fund " B" and paid into Fund ''B".
This condition has prevented such persons who sub divide estates from enjoying the best of two worlds.

the old take over satisfactory I am glad they must await the Honourable that Member has suggested that the Board should rubber holdings of Malay smallholders and replant for them.

Sir, the Government has been studying this problem very closely and has not yet been able to find a solution.
Many Malays, with less than five acres of rubber land, find it difficult to replant because they have no alternative source of livelihood for the next five to six years when the maturing of the newly replanted trees.

Although they can get assistance to new plant in an equivalent area up to five acres with rubber, invariably the land available is many miles away from their kampong.

The fringe aliena tion schemes is such an example and because of the human factor, such schemes have not been too successful.
It is the view of economists that to uplift the economic the situation of minimum acreage of rubber land that each family should own should be about eight acres plus two acres for other agricultural use.

This recom mended unit has been the basis of distribution of landless to the land under the F.L.D.A.

Schemes.
Schemes.

the economics and rural people, the The problem facing the Government is what are we going to do with all those small rubber holdings below five acres that are not economic because of their size and because of the existing old rubber.

The Honourable Member has suggested that the Board should the replanting.

I wonder take over what and how the people will react to this.
Would they prefer to retain the small, uneconomic, units, or would they prefer a re-distribution of these rubber lands, so that each family can then own an economic area of eight acres of rubber agricultural land?

land and two of These are the problems that are facing the Government, and we would welcome views and ideas as to how we can usefully and effectively assist the Malay smallholders.

Mr Speaker, Sir Mr Speaker: As we have to continue the sitting from 6.30 onwards, let us have a short recess now.
The sitting is suspended for twenty minutes.

Sitting suspended at 6.05 p.m.

Sitting resumed at 6.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Debate resumed.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Speaker, Sir, in the last few days there has been considerable concern expressed, both inside and outside this House, over the introduction of the turnover tax and the payroll tax.

There have been fears that these two taxes would, in fact, be tax on capital.
few, coffee Sir, there are very many businesses that make money through service and, to name a the professions— lawyers, the doctors, the dental sur geons, the dentists, the accountants, the secretaries and others.

As for hotels, cinemas, restaurants, shops, theatres, amusement parks, transport services, buses, taxis and lorries, the turnover tax in such cases should not be a tax on capital.
In some businesses, however, where they deal in perishable goods, where there may be occasion to sell even below cost, I am prepared to concede that the turnover tax can be a tax on capital.

But, Sir, to what extent, in the whole of our economy, will the tax be a tax on capital?

No one is in a position to make a firm statement, not until we have given this tax a chance to show up its faults.

turnover The country is faced with today extinction.
I say so, Sir, because if Soekarno is able to carry through his policy of "Crush Malaysia" there will 3503 3 DECEMBER 1964 3504 be no more free, independent Malaysia.

We will then be a part of Indonesia Raya.

What good, then, will be your estates, all your mines, all your factories, all your businesses and even all your money?

In such a situation all of us who want to live in a free, democratic country must be prepared to defend our rights.
Those who have strength should give strength; those who have money should give money.

With the mounting expenditure of our country to defend the nation, I am sure there is no one here who will envy the Honourable Minister of Finance.

He has been given the most unpleasant task of raising money.

In all good faith he has proposed these new in tax measures, measures of creasing income, in the belief that only those who can afford to pay will be asked to pay.
May I, therefore, appeal to all of you to allow these new measures to have a trial.

If it is found that in some businesses it is, in fact, a tax on capital I have no doubt the Honourable Minister of Finance will himself amend such anomalies.

Thank you, Sir.
Thank you, Sir.

"forum" perbahathan The Minister of Education (Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya sunggoh berasa dukachita yang perbahathan atas Rang Undang2 Belanjawan, 1965, telah di- ber- jadikan kenaan dengan bahasa rasmi, bahasa penghantar di-Sekolah2 Menengah dan bahasa yang di-gunakan dalam pe- pereksaan.
Sa-patut-nya perbahathan dasar2 ini kapada kewangan (fiscal policy) dan dasar chukai baharu yang di-chadangkan oleh Kerajaan, tetapi malang-nya lebeh ramai Ahli2 Yang Berhormat yang dan menunjoPkan telah menumpu maasalah Bahasa Rasmi dan dasar pelajaran.

di-tumpukan di-Pertua, Tuan Yang kedua2 masaalah itu ia-itu Bahasa Rasmi dan ada-lah masaalah2 dasar Pelajaran yang telah di-selesaikan.
Perkara2 itu ada-lah perkara2 yang sangat rumit dan yang boleh menimbulkan perselisehan faham di-antara kaum yang sa-patut- nya mesti di-elakkan dalam keadaan terancham negara kita yang sedang Perpaduan oleh musoh daripada luar.

Jadi oleh yang demikian dengan semangat per- paduan yang telah di-nyalakan dalam "Minggu Kebangsaan" baharu2 ini mari-lah kita memaksa diri kita sendiri supaya jangan "menjolok sarang tebuan" kerana akibah-nya akan mendatangkan satu mala petaka yang besar kapada negeri ini.
Bahasa rasmi dan bahasa kebangsaan negara kita sudah pun di-tetapkan oleh Dewan yang bertuah apabila Dewan ini telah meluluskan dasar yang terkandong di- dalam Perlembagaan Malaysia ia-itu menjadikan bahasa Melayu sa-bagai bahasa kebangsaan yang tunggal bagi negara kita.

Kita patut-lah mengambil ingatan bahawa tiap2 sa-orang daripada kita sa-belum di-terima menjadi Ahli Dewan telah bersumpah hendak mempertahankan Perlembagaan negara kita.
Kalau kita patoh kapada sumpah yang kita buat dan untok mengelakkan bukan sahaja diri kita juga keturunan yang akan datang daripada di-musnahkan, di-makan oleh sumpah, maka hendak-lah kita menjadikan Perlembagaan negara kita ini satu per kara jangan-lah suchi, murni dan hendak chuba di-chabul.

tetapi ini Tuan Yang di-Pertua, berhubong dengan dasar pelajaran, Dewan ini telah meluluskan satu dasar pelajaran kebangsaan di-dalam tahun 1956.

Dasar itu di-bena atas tiga asas atau soal pokok.


Asas yang pertama ia-lah dasar pelajaran yang dapat di-terima oleh sa-bahagian besar pendudok negeri ini dan memenohi kemahuan mereka serta menggalakkan kemajuan mereka sa- bagai satu bangsa di-dalam lapangan kebudayaan, mashakarat, ekonomi dan politik.

Asas yang kedua ia-lah dasar hendak menjadikan bahasa Melayu bahasa kebangsaan negeri ini.
Asas yang ketiga ia-lah dasar yang akan memelihara akan bahasa dan ke lain2 bangsa yang diam budayaan dalam negeri ini.

Maka dasar2 pokok yang terkandong dalam Penyata Razak itu-lah yang di-laksanakan pada masa sekarang lichin-nya ini dan dengan perlaksanaan dasar itu menjadi bukti yang jelas dan nyata bahawa ia-itu dasar pelajaran kebangsaan kita telah memenohi kehendak ra'ayat negeri ini pada 'am-nya.
3505 3 DECEMBER 1964 3506 Saya telah berasa terkejut dengan pandangan dan pendapat yang di- keluarkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Tanjong, kerana saya tahu dasar dan asas yang saya sebutkan itu oleh-nya di-persetujukan sa-bagai Ahli Jawatan-Kuasa Pela jaran Tahun 1956.

Pada ketika ini oleh kerana dia tidak lagi memimpin M.C.A., dia telah berubah sikap.
Sikap- nya pada masa yang lampau berhu- bong dengan pelajaran dan bahasa ada-lah tegas ia-itu kedua2-nya tidak boleh and di-pisahkan—education language could not be divorced, dalam usaha hendak menubohkan satu bangsa yang saling mengerti dan berbagai2 bersatu keturunan yang ada di-dalam negeri ini.

Dia tangani Pe- nyata itu dan salah satu perkara yang di-tegaskan dalam paragraph 12 ada- lah berbunyi saperti berikut.
telah menanda daripada padu Oleh kerana agak-nya dia tidak dapat memahamkan bahasa kebang- saan biar-lah saya bachakan apa yang di-persetujukan oleh-nya dalam tahun 1956 dalam bahasa Inggeris: that "We believe further the ultimate objective of educational policy of this country must be to bring together the children of all races under a national education system, in which the national language is the main medium of instruction".
telah di-persetujukan- Itu-lah yang tahun 1956 tetapi pada nya dalam telah berpaling masa sekarang dia tadah dan hendak membangkit2kan perkara ini sa-kali lagi.

Dalam ucha- pan-nya, Ahli Yang Berhormat dari pada Tanjong juga telah menyatakan dengan keraguan-nya bahasa pepereksaan.

Dia berasa ragu2 apabila bahasa kebangsaan di-jadikan bahasa rasmi yang tunggal di-negeri ini mulai tahun 1967, apa-kah bahasa di- pepereksaan sekolah2?
di-gunakan berhubong yang Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ingin untok menghapuskan menjelaskan pen- keraguan dan keraguan-nya dudok2 dalam negeri ini.
Bahawa dalam 176 Education Review Committee Report ada me- negaskan bahawa dasar menjadikan bahasa pepereksaan mengikuti bahasa pengantar yang di-gunakan di-Seko- paragraph lah2 Menengah sudah pun di-tetapkan, dan Menteri Pelajaran ada-lah di-beri kuasa di-bawah section 120 Undang2 Pelajaran Tahun 1961 menentukan bahawa pepereksaan yang akan di- gunakan mengikut keadaan2 yang ada pada masa itu.
Sa-bagai chontoh-nya, kertas pepereksaan dalam mata pela jaran bahasa dan kesusteraan China itu dan di-buat di-dalam bahasa di-jawab di-dalam bahasa juga, itu kerana bahasa pengantar mata pela jaran ia-lah bahasa China.

itu di-sekolah2, juga terbentok-nya Satu lagi perkara yang di-ragu2kan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada ia-lah darjah perale- Tanjong han—remove class.

Dia berasa bim- bang dengan system aneka jurusan (comprehensive school) maka darjah peralehan itu tidak dapat di-Pertua, di-adakan.
Tuan Yang untok menghilangkan keraguan-nya yang barangkali sengaja di-timbulkan untok mengelirukan orang ramai, suka saya menjelaskan bahawa pindaan kapada Undang2 yang baharu di-luluskan oleh Dewan ini hendak-lah di-bacha dengan merujok- kan kapada Undang2 Pelajaran yang asal.

Section 2 Undang2 Pelajaran tahun 1961 ada memberi tafsiran yang jelas national secondary school dan national-type secondary school.
Dan di-dalam taf siran itu untok mengadakan kemuda- remove han darjah peralehan atau di-mansokhkan.

Tuan class Yang itu-lah sahaja yang saya hendak menjawab tegoran2 yang di-datangkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Tanjong.

tidak di-Pertua, berkenaan Pelajaran sa-takat dengan Kemudian, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-bagaimana biasa Ahli Yang Ber hormat daripada Ipoh telah memain- kan lagu lama-nya dalam Dewan ini.
Politik yang di-tonjol2kan-nya ia-lah politik penjajah ia-itu politik untok memechah belahkan pendudok2 di- dalam negeri ini.

Politik-nya itu harus boleh menjadi pertolongan yang besar juga musoh2 kapada komunis dan yang hendak menghanchorkan Malay sia pada masa sekarang.

Tetapi politik yang di-mainkan-nya itu ia-lah politik yang basi dan lapok.
Dan Malaysia ada-lah sa-buah negara yang bertuah 3507 3 DECEMBER 1964 3508 sebab itu dan dengan kerana ra'ayat negeri ini boleh mema- timbul hamkan bahaya yang akan politik bila mereka menyokong saperti itu sadikit demi sadikit pengaroh party Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Ipoh itu telah merusut dan sa-bagai bukti- nya yang nyata wakil-nya dalam Dewan telah susut daripada 5 orang menjadi 2 orang.
Kalau politik itu di-amalkan oleh party-nya maka saya hendak membuat telahan akan menggali dia lubang kubor-nya sendiri dan akhir- nya bukan sahaja Ahli Yang Berhor mat daripada tetapi party-nya Ipoh akan hapus dari muka bumi Malaysia ini (Tepok).

terus-menerus yang ini atas masaalah Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya juga telah mengikuti dengan penoh minat dan menginsafi telatah politik P.A.P., di-dalam dan di-luar Dewan ini.

Soal mulut yang di-hadapkan kapada saya oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada P.A.P.
Nanyang University, bertujuan hendak menarek sokongan pendudok2 Singapura dan Malaya kapada parti-nya.

Uchapan Yang Berhormat Enche' Lee Kuan Yew bagitu juga hendak memanching gulongan have-not dalam Malaya.

Wakil Bangsar, di-dalam memberikan uchapan ka-atas perkara ini men- ahli2 Trade chuba mempengarohi Union Malaya.

Peranan yang telah di-mainkan oleh Yang Berhormat Enche' Abdul Rahim Ishak pula ia-lah memujok orang Melayu untok mema- soki parti P.A.P.
Pendek-nya tidak ada satu gulongan ra'ayat pun di- Malaya ini yang lepas daripada leng- ini masok kongan di-bawah perangkap P.A.P.

supaya negeri tiap2 Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tidak- lah hendak menyalahkan usaha yang di-jalankan oleh P.A.P.

itu, kerana itu ada-lah hak mutlak sa-buah parti politik dalam negeri ini.

Tetapi, apa yang saya mushkil chara mereka hendak mendapatkan itu dengan menggunakan sentiment pera- saan perkauman.
Satu aliran politik yang mesti kita hapuskan kalau kita sa-benar-nya jujur hendak menuboh- kan satu bangsa Malaysia yang ber- satu padu.

Tektik yang di-jalankan oleh P.A.P., harus boleh mendatang- sokongan chita2 murni sementara kapada kan keuntongan tetapi mereka hendak-lah parti-nya, insaf bahawa tektik itu-lah yang akan meruntohkan ra'ayat jelata ini untok hidup dalam keadaan aman dan ma'mor.
Oleh sebab itu seluroh ra'ayat negeri ini hendak-lah berwaspada dan menolak politik kotor yang di-tunjolkan oleh P.A.P.

di- dalam Dewan ini.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would now direct my replies to Honourable Mem bers from Sarawak and Sabah.

Quite a number of questions have been asked and a great deal of discussions have been centred around Central Government policy concerning educa tion as applied to those States.
Much of these discussions, which has often been critical of the Central Govern ment, appears to be based on a the position of misunderstanding of education in those two States.

I would therefore like to explain the position so as to clear up any misunderstand ing that might still exist.

In the Government of the Constitution of Malaysia, Education is a Federal subject under Item (13) of List L of the Ninth Schedule except in the case of Singa pore which has been granted complete autonomy.
But despite this constitu it will be recalled tional provision, that the former Federation of Malaya entered into an agreement with the then State Govern ments of Sabah and Sarawak to the effect the present policy and system of administration of education in Sabah and Sarawak, including their present Ordinances, should be undis turbed and remain under the control of the Government of the States until that Government agrees vide page 7, paragraph 17 (a) of the Malaysia Report of the Inter-Govern mental Committee, 1962. otherwise that the Central Government It will be appreciated, therefore, Sir, that it would not be appropriate now for to introduce changes of any kind unila terally without the prior consent of the State Government concerned.
Also as the agreement is that the system and of and Sarawak education should not be disturbed, the initiative, on in Sabah administration policy 3509 3 DECEMBER 1964 3510 I repeat the initiative, for the intro duction of any changes both in policy and system ought really to be taken first by the State Governments them selves.
it to to remove Furthermore, Sir, should be stated here that the Central Govern ment the is already committed gradual development of a national system of education which will unify the various races of the country into a single and effective political entity.

The educational policies of Sabah and Sarawak, on the other hand, are at present not on all fours with the policy of the Central Government.
Unless therefore a way could be found whereby changes and modifications the could be introduced existing anomalies and differences in a manner as to be acceptable both to the Central Government and to the State Governments of Sabah and Sarawak, the present policy and sys tem of educational administration in the two States will have to continue to remain undisturbed.
The Central Government is bound by its agreement solemnly undertaken before the for mation of Malaysia and so will not under any circumstances break faith that agreement.

It has always with the Central been the practice of Government faithfully any obligations undertaken by it and it has no intention now of departing from this practice.
It is for this reason that it still continues to finance the educational programmes of Sabah and Sarawak from Federal funds although the policies in those two States differ the national that of greatly policy.
to carry out from As regards comprehensive the system of education, which is planned the States of in introduction for Malaya with effect January, from 1965, it must be said that this new system is designed to develop further the national policy on education and will not in any way nullify, modify or change it.
It will, in fact, therefore represent a further important step in the same direction in which education in the States of Malaya have been moving forward about the past seven years, and so a system such as this in the to earlier.

If, which has been fashioned to fit in with an existing policy cannot be introduced in either Sabah or Sarawak without at the same time introducing changes both the structure and policy of education existing in those in States.
This will clearly not be I agreement accordance with the referred therefore, State Governments are prepared changes accept involved in their system and policy of education, then all obstacles will be removed and the Central Government would, subject to the availability of funds, consider implementing the new throughout Malay system uniformly sia.
concerned the to dengan sekarang berkenaan Pembangunan The Assistant Minister of National and Rural Development (Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'akub): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, beberapa dari Ahli Yang Berhormat telah memberi pan- hal dangan Kementerian Luar Bandar dan juga Kementerian Tanah daripada dan Galian.

Kebanyakan perhatian itu sa-benar-nya bukan atas asas2 'am, tetapi ada-lah menyentoh butir2.

Dengan hal yang demikian, saya tidak-lah berhajat di-tingkat ini semua-nya.
Dan hendak menjawab tegoran2 itu bukan juga kebanyakan kena-mengena dengan belanjawan yang di-binchangkan tetapi ada-lah kena-mengena dengan belan jawan pembangunan.

Bagaimana pun ada dua perkara yang hendak saya jawab dengan pendek sahaja, maka elok-lah saya selesai di-sini.

Pertama sa-kali Ahli Yang Berhormat dari berkata Trengganu Utara Kuala bahawa peruntokan juta yang akan di-beri kapada RIDA itu ada-lah tidak menchukupi sa-kali untok membantu orang2 Melayu.
Sini saya suka menerangkan Yang Berhor mat itu salah faham, kerana perunto kan itu bukan untok pinjaman kapada orang2 Melayu yang hendak berniaga, tetapi ada-lah untok pentadbiran sa- tiap hari dalam RIDA.

Soalan ban- lain2 tuan untok perniagaan dan di-berikan pada RIDA akan termasok di-dalam belanjawan pembangunan.
sa-banyak ini, 3 1/2 Satu perkara lagi, ia-itu Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Melaka Selatan telah 3511 3 DECEMBER 1964 3512 sa-lama chuma di-beri berkata, "Kenapa-kah baja yang di-beri kapada Ranchangan Tanah Pinggir itu empat tahun sahaja, pada hal baja yang di-beri kapada ranchangan di-bawah Lembaga Tanah Kemajuan itu di-beri sa-lama enam tahun?"
Agak-nya Ahli Yang Berhormat itu tidak mengetahui bahawa baja yang di-beri kapada Ranchangan Tanah Pinggir itu ada- lah di-beri dengan perchuma, sa- balek-nya baja yang di-beri kapada peserta2 dalam Ranchangan F.L.D.A.

sa-lama itu di-hitong tahun sa-bagai hutang.

Jikalau-lah di-kehen- daki bahawa baja yang di-beri kapada ini di- Ranchangan Tanah Pinggir samakan saperti yang di-beri kapada Ranchangan F.L.D.A.
juga peserta2 dalam Ranchangan Tanah itu tidak setuju, kerana sa- Pinggir tadi bagaimana yang saya katakan mereka di-kehendaki membayar balek harga baja2 itu.

harus enam Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Muar Utara soalan telah menimbulkan chukai tanah.

Ini, pendek kata semua kita ketahui yang soalan itu bukan-lah di-bawah kuasa Kerajaan Pusat, tetapi ada-lah di-bawah kuasa tiap2 Kerajaan Negeri.
tanah The Minister for Welfare Services (Tuan Haji Abdul Hamid Khan bin Haji Sakhawat Ali Khan): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, hanya dua tiga perkara sahaja yang telah di-bangkitkan oleh Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dalam Dewan ini pada masa membahathkan belan- jawan yang baharu tadi.

Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Krian Laut telah menyatakan dan menarek ini di-atas keku- perhatian Rumah rangan wang bagi bantuan 'am kapada orang2 yang miskin dan menderita di-tempat-nya di-Krian.
sa-kejap Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka menyatakan di-sini ia-itu bantuan 'am ada-lah satu bantuan yang di-beri dan di-peruntokkan oleh Kerajaan Negeri dan masaalah bantuan ini sa-kira-nya ada kekurangan dalam satu2 Negeri, molek-lah bagi Ahli Yang Berhormat ini supaya meminta sa-orang Ahli Dewan Undangan Negeri bagi negeri- itu membuat permohonan bagi nya supaya membuat perun negeri-nya tokan yang lebeh lagi.
itu Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Pasir Puteh telah menyatakan baharu2 ini, ia-itu saya ada mengatakan bahawa wang Lembaga Loteri Kebajikan Masharakat telah di-gunakan untok keperluan2 ugama.

Ahli Yang Berhor telah menyatakan bahawa mat ada-lah bertentangan dengan dasar kami untok menggunakan wang2 yang sa-umpama keperluan ugama, tetapi tidak-lah menjadi tega- telah han kata-nya, terlebeh ka- dahulu dalam khazanah Kerajaan.
itu di-masokkan jika wang2 bagi itu Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tidak tahu uchapan saya yang mana-kah yang di-maksudkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat itu, tetapi sa-kira-nya Ahli Yang Berhormat itu memerhatikan uchapan saya yang baharu ta' berapa lama dahulu di-buat di-Kuala Kang- itu ber- sar, ada-lah uchapan saya bunyi di-antara lain2 saperti berikut: Lembaga Loteri ini telah di-tubohkan dan di-jalankan mengikut Undang2 Lembaga Loteri Kebajikan Masharakat Tahun 1950.
Semenjak chabutan yang pertama telah di- adakan pada 27hb June tahun 1951 hingga- ini, perkhidmatan2 lah kebajikan masharakat di-Tanah Melayu ini telah menekmati bantuan2 wang lebeh dari- pada $72,235,023.

Saya suka juga menerang- kan ia-itu semenjak Pindaan Undang2 Loteri telah di-buat pada lhb Julai tahun 1960, maka wang2 yang di-perolehi daripada chabutan2 ini di-masokkan sa-bagai Khazanah Kerajaan Persekutuan Tanah Melayu.
sekarang sampai loteri dan Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dengan ini jelas-lah ka-mana pergi wang itu dan ada-ah wang itu terlebeh ka- dahulu dalam Khazanah Kerajaan.

di-masokkan terang-lah tentang Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Batu telah menegor peruntokan wang yang di-katakan-nya kechil yang di-buat dalam Anggaran Perbelanjaan ini untok perkhidmatan2 kebajikan dan ketiadaan Ranchangan Bantuan 'Am, atau pun Ranchangan Kanak2 Sekolah.
Saya bimbang, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Ahli Yang Berhormat itu tidak sedar tentang peruntokan yang sa-benar-nya di-buat untok perkhid matan2 kebajikan.

Mengikut Perlem- bagaan, Kebajikan Masharakat ada-lah menjadi jawab berasingan di-antara Kerajaan Pusat dan Kera jaan Negeri.
tanggong 3513 3 DECEMBER 1964 3514 yang untok Peruntokan2 tanggong perkhidmatan2 di-tunjokkan ini dalam Anggaran Perbelanjaan yang ia-lah jawab Kerajaan menjadi tidak-lah Pusat dan ini memberi gambaran yang sa-benar- nya, atau sa-penoh-nya jumlah yang di-untokkan bagi perkhidmatan2 keba- jikan seluroh negara.
anggaran Sa-lain daripada peruntokan ini Kerajaan2 Negeri membelanjakan lebeh kurang $4 juta sa-tahun, dan sa-lain darpada itu pula $12 juta lagi ada-lah di-untokkan daripada Tabong Wang Amanah Perkhidmatan Keba- jikan Masharakat untok keperluan2 kebajikan dan masharakat.

Kenyataan Yang Berhormat dari Batu itu yang menegor ketiadaan Ranchangan Bantuan 'Am, atau pun Ranchangan Perolehan Pertolongan Kanak2 Sekolah ada-lah tidak benar.
Lebeh $3.3 juta ada-lah di-belanjakan oleh Kerajaan2 Negeri dan Pertu- bohan2 Sukarela tahun untok 'am dan juga untok perto bantuan longan kapada kanak2 sekolah.

Ini termasok bantuan2 wang yang tidak di-beri kapada mangsa2 mala-petaka, saperti kebakaran api, kemarau dan sa-bagi-nya.

Sekian.

tiap2 The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan Siew Sin): Mr Speaker, Sir, in winding up this five-day debate, I intend to deal with only the major and controversial points which have emerged.
A number of Honourable Members have offered useful and interesting suggestions, and these will be studied by the Government and given they deserve.

I intend to deal with the less controversial issues first, reserving to the important and controversial issues which have been raised in the course of this debate.
consideration the more last the The Honourable Member for Pasir Puteh and the Honourable Member for Batu suggested that the Government should have raised a substantial amount of additional revenue by increasing the rates of duty payable on spirits and alcoholic liquors.

Honourable Members of this House will have noted that both the Honourable Members in question admitted that they did not drink strong liquor and were therefore happy to see law these items heavily taxed.
The Honou rable Member for Batu suggested that the reason which would be given for not imposing additional taxation was the returns.

Prudently, he did not give any specific reasons why this law would not relate to these two products but contented himself with vague generalisations on the habits of rich towkays.
diminishing of At the end of 1962 the rate of duty on unmanufactured tobacco was raised from $7.60 per lb to $8.60 per lb full rate and from $7.40 to $8.40 preferen tial rate in the then Federation of Malaya.

As a result of these increases the total amount of revenue received import duty and excise on from tobacco and rose tobacco products from $105 million in 1962 to $111 million in 1963, and the volume of tobacco imports of unmanufactured rose from 9.9 million pounds to 12.2 million pounds.
Unfortunately, this trend has not been maintained and during the first seven months of 1964 imported unmanu the volume of factured tobacco has declined to only 4.1 million pounds.

There was a sharp increase in the volume of imports in October, probably in anticipation of tax increases which did not occur, but total revenue from tobacco and ciga rettes for the first ten months of 1964 is still lower than that during the corres ponding period of 1963.
Furthermore, the Singapore that it Government requested that the rate of increase in duty on tobacco in Singa pore be restricted to 60 cents a pound, although the rates of duty applicable there would hence be considerably lower than those in force in the States of Malaya.

This request was submitted in order to protect the position of the manufacturers of the lower priced ciga rettes.
is significant the efficiency of Despite the fact that the Honourable Member for Batu considers that the is a serious existence of smuggling reflection on this Government he must be well aware that smuggling is a fact throughout the world, and the problem of prevention is particularly difficult in Malaysia owing to the existence of free port areas in Singapore and Penang Island, and 3515 3 DECEMBER 1964 3516 to declare it such vigorous the open nature of the northern frontier.
Indeed, how many people in this country can honestly say that they have not at some time or other gone to Penang or Singapore and purchased a shirt or similar dutiable article and failed to Customs on their return to the States of Malaya.

Such smuggling could be reduced by ruthless examination of travellers by Customs but Honourable Members opposite would be amongst the first to action complain of (Laughter).
Smuggling, as I have said, exists in all countries, and the higher the rate of duty or the more restrictive the controls exercised by a government, the greater the incentive is for smug gling.

The Honourable Member re ferred in particular to the question of gold.
It is significant that there are no legal exports of gold from this country but there is a substantial export of gold ornaments which is made attractive by the very rigid controls exercised by the Government of a large neighbouring country, doubtless for good reasons, but these controls have resulted in a very high domestic price for gold in that the country, which provides incentive for the traffic in gold orna ments from Malaysia, and widespread smuggling from elsewhere.
Any govern ment must therefore recognise that very high duties give rise to smuggling.

In the case of tobacco it would be a simple matter from the tobacco and tobacco manufactures by imposing a substantial excise on the actual manufacture of cigarettes.
This, however, would be disadvantageous to the grower of home tobacco and the small manufacturer of cheap cigarettes, and any changes in the present structure of taxation must be considered care fully, as this Government wishes to preserve the employment now afforded by the many small domestic producers of cigarettes.
revenue raise to As regards an increase in the rates of duty applicable to spirits, the duties payable in respect of brandy, gin and whisky were raised substantially in the States of Malaya on 16th December, 1963.

The amount of duty received during the first seven months of 1964 in respect of these items was in each in 1963.
I appreciate case less than one half of the revenue received that imports of spirits tend to be highest in the last quarter of the year, the reasons for which, I think, Honourable Mem bers are probably well aware.

Neverthe less, the figures indicate that the reve nue this year is unlikely to be signifi cantly higher than that received in 1963 for gin and brandy, and is likely to be lower than the amount received in 1963 in respect of whisky.
It is significant that, in the case of gin, although the duty has been increased from $37.50 to $49.50 per gallon, the yield is not likely to be significantly higher in 1964 than it was in 1961.
Whilst it may be true that the rich will continue to drink spirits regardless of the duty imposed this is not true of the less well off and those who consume the cheaper spirits are encouraged to patronise the moon shiner who continues to exist in this country, despite the vigorous campaign by the Preventive Division of the Royal Customs and Excise to stamp out this class of gentry.
In the case of beer and stout the volume of domestic consumption based on imports and retained domestic pro duction has declined from 11 million gallons in 1951 to 9.1 million gallons in 1963.

Furthermore, the new duty or excise payable on crown corks will mean that the total burden of tax on beer and stout will be increased by 60 cents per gallon, unless they are sold in cans.
is quite wrong I have no hesitation, therefore, in saying that the Honourable Member in for Pasir Puteh suggesting that an additional $100 million could be obtained by increasing the rates of duty on alcoholic beverages and consider that the evidence avail that any able supports my belief further increases in the rates of duty are unlikely to produce substantial addi tional revenue.

There could well be a net loss.


The Honourable Member for Temerloh suggested that withdrawals from the Employees Provident Fund should be made easier.

The purpose of the Fund retirement benefits and this object will not be to provide is 3517 3 DECEMBER 1964 3518 for whatever achieved if withdrawals from the Fund temporary are permitted in cases of reason.
unemployment The Government the introduction of a scheme for the pro vision of sickness benefits which should the difficult cases alleviate many of which have occurred in the past.

is considering I take this opportunity of mentioning that the rate of interest which will be credited to contributors' accounts will the year ending 31st be 5 1/4% for December, 1964.

Thus the rate of interest has been raised from the 2 1/2% payable on closing balances in 1959 to 5 1/4% on opening balances in 1964.
Honourable Members will, I am sure, agree represents most satisfactory progress in the develop ment of the Fund which will be of great benefit to members of the Fund.

that this figure loans.


As the comparable The Honourable Member for Jerai suggested that every effort should be made to raise domestic rather than foreign the Honourable Member will note from Head CI 3— Charges on Account of Public Debt— the aggregate value of domestic funded is $1,491 million, loans outstanding whereas for is $327 million which foreign loans excludes loans raised abroad by statu tory authorities.
Domestic loans must provide the major source of funds for development and therefore considera tion is being given to the issue of defence bonds and to improving the rate of interest payable by the Post Office Savings Bank on deposits.

it should be borne in Nevertheless, loans do not mind increase the resources available within the economy whereas raised abroad increase the resources avail able for investment without curtailing current consumption.
The cost of servicing existing in relation to annual export earnings is very modest and there is plenty of scope for raising new foreign loans for economic projects and it is the Government's policy raise such loans wherever the terms offered are reasonable.

that domestic foreign loans loans to The Honourable Member has also the volume of to drawn attention a that savings generated by Muslims in order to finance their pilgrimage.
It was for safe the purpose of providing medium the for such savings Muslim Pilgrims' Savings Corporation was established and investment powers of the Board are very wide investment may be except made outside Malaysia without the Treasury's consent.

The assets of the Fund are therefore available for the financing of development in Malaysia.

that no the in the rates effect the light of the rising trend the changes of took place I would now like to make some interest reference to last week.
rates which Following the Bank of England's announcement of an increase in its rate of discount from 5% to 7% p.a.

with from 23rd November, interest rates in the United States and Canada have also been increased as from 24th November.

Discount rates of United States banks were increased from 3 1/2% to 4% p.a.

and in Canada the Central Bank's discount rate has been increased from 4% to 4 1/2% p.a.
in In interest international market, it has been found necessary to increase interest rates in Malaysia in order to make it less attractive for funds to be switched abroad.

A fur ther reason for the increase in our interest rates arises from the need to dampen the expansion of bank credit particularly in view of the substantial increase in Government expenditure.

As from 25th November, 1964 there fore the minimum bank lending rate has been increased from 6 1/4% to 7% p.a.
As the maximum rate of interest payable by banks on fixed deposits has also been increased from 4% to 5% p.a.

The Treasury Bill rate, which is kept in line with the fixed deposit rate, has been increased from 4% to 5% p.a.

Honour able Members would have also noted that, arising from these changes, the Government proposes to pay 6% for the current long term loan.

On the basis is fully that subscribed it will cost an additional $100,000 under Public Debt.
this $20 million that same date from loan The Prime Minister of Singapore has criticised the imposition of duty on fuel oils in Singapore on the ground 3519 3 DECEMBER 1964 3520 that it will make exports more difficult.

This argument is equally valid against wage increases which constitute a much higher proportion of direct costs but the Honourable Member would surely not consider this an adequate ground for resisting demands for higher wages.
As I stated in my Budget speech fuel costs are in most industries a small proportion of ex-factory costs, but in respect of fuel intensive industries, we are prepared to consider interim relief the case for a until such protective tariff is heard by the Tariff Advisory Board.

the Honourable Member to provide details of the export markets which will be lost to Singapore as a result of these fuel duties.
time as I also invite The Prime Minister of Singapore also criticised the new duty on sugar, but a in Singapore is being sugar refinery built and will come into operation sometime in 1965.
I do not believe that such a refinery could operate in Singa pore without the establishment of a protective tariff or the grant of a de facto monopoly by means of restrictive quotas for imports, and an Honourable Member opposite has expressed the view that such monopolies are a capita listic device for the exploitation of the masses.

I draw his attention to the fact that this device is most prevalent in the State of Singapore.

(Applause).
(Applause).

Lastly, the Singapore Government is an ardent supporter of the Malaysian common market.

It is unrealistic to suggest that such a market will be formed except behind a Malaysian tariff wall having regard to the general level of costs the imperative need to increase Government revenue.

It is impracticable in view of the that revenue harmonisation can be achieved by eliminating import duties in the rest of Malaysia rather than by imposing or increasing such duties in Singapore.
in Malaysia and involved loss of Let me now turn the direct to criticisms levelled at taxation pro posals.

Great play has been made of the proposal to reduce the top income tax rate for individuals in Singapore from 55% to 50%.

It has been said that the Government is soft on the in can for truth propaganda I tried speech millionaires.
I made it clear in my Budget speech that the total loss in be involved, which revenue estimated with some precision, is of the order of $234,000, but one speaker to say—no doubt, went so far as purely purposes, importance— is of no when that the loss will run into millions of in my to explain dollars.

Budget to that harmonize four complex and different systems of taxation in one operation, to occur.
inconsistencies are bound Inland Both Revenue have looked, in the course of the last few months, at various combinations and permutations and whatever we do, it was clear that inconsistencies would arise, most of which are directly attributable to disparity in the inci dence of taxation in the existing tax structures of regions of Malaysia.

the Department separately, trying four and the of I, individuals was One example will serve to illustrate my point.
The difficulty which we encountered in harmonizing the maxi mum rate for that Sarawak had a ceiling rate of only 10%.

It will be conceded by any fair-minded person that this jump, as a first step, should be enough.

We could, of course, have left the Singa pore rate at 55%, but if we had done this, the P.A.P.

would probably be the first to accuse the Central Govern ment of discriminating against Singa pore millionaires.
In Sarawak, too, we encountered another difficulty of a different the lowest income brackets.

Here again, in order to harmonize in one opera tion, a substantial number of people, it may even run into thousands, will next year be paying far less tax than they ever paid before.

From now on, however, to develop a more rational tax system, because from now on all the four regions of Malaysia will be starting from practically the same base.
it would be far easier in dealing with sort It is, therefore, essential to look at the proposals as a whole and I think that this standpoint we can justifiably claim that they are reason that even able.

It was made clear from 3521 3 DECEMBER 1964 3522 an Such individuals in Singapore in though income brackets would the highest have made an apparent gain, the gain may not be there at all on closer examination.
individual, next year, would have to pay payroll tax, probably turnover tax and capital gains tax if he has been speculating successfully in the stock market or in real estate.

In fact, when you consider the tax proposals as a whole, he is far liability more likely to incur a net than a gain.

One Honourable Member from the P.A.P.

benches went so far as to say that the effect of the 5% reduction in the top rate in Singapore meant a saving of several hundred thousand dollars for Mr Tan Chin Tuan.
I assume that "several" hun dred thousand would mean at least four hundred thousand dollars.

This means that the income of this gentle man amounts little over $8 to a million per year and I trust that the Honourable Member has made his arithmetic available Inland Revenue Department in Singapore as their published reports do not indicate the existence of a taxpayer of this magnitude.

the to Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: On a point of information.
The point I wanted to make was that Mr Tan Chin Tuan would not deny that he would receive as a result of the reduction of 5% from 55% to 50% a windfall bonus from the Minister of Finance, out of which this bank director would be able to offset the $50,000 that he has contributed to the patriotic fund.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: The Honour able Member has changed his tune somewhat.

When he spoke earlier he said that Mr Tan Chin Tuan would save several hundred thousand dollars.
I am glad that at least he has climbed down from his previous perch.

the order of tax of Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am sorry to interrupt.

When I said several hundred thousand dollars, the Minister of Finance chooses to put it at $400,000, it is his mistake and not mine.

if Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, let us for the sake of argument assume it is $200,000.
Even then, it would mean that Mr Tan Chin Tuan had an annual income of four million dollars and, as I have said, I do not think the records of the Department in Singapore of income contain an individual whose is of this order.

It cannot be one million dollars.

I take it that "several" means more than one—at least two (Laughter).

Inland Revenue AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nor mally more than two.
Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Honourable Members who are keen on raising all taxation by soaking the rich, and I heard no Opposition suggestions that anyone else should pay, may be inter ested in some figures concerning the much-discussed Singapore millionaires and what could be obtained from them in additional income tax.
the top increased If instead of harmonising the top rate of personal tax at 50% we had allowed a surcharge of 5% to remain in Singapore so that the top rate was 55%, the additional tax, based on the latest available Singapore income tax statistics, would be $234,000.
If we rate which had applies to chargeable income of more than $100,000 to 75% the additional tax produced would be approximately $1 million; if we increase the rate to 90%, the additional yield would be $1 3/4 million, and if we confiscate the whole of the surplus above $100,000 by charging a rate of 100% the theore tical yield would be about $2 million but this obviously would not be worth the destructive impact caused.
The idea that confiscatory rates can produce a higher tax yield is quite mistaken and this has been proved by practical experience in both socialist and right- wing countries.

It does not take much imagination to realise that long before income tax rates reach confiscatory levels Singapore's millionaires would be seeking a friendlier tax climate in neighbouring countries such as Hong kong, Taiwan and Thailand.
I would like to quote the results of an experiment we did some years ago when we reduced the import duty rate 3523 3 DECEMBER 1964 3524 on fountain pens from 25% to 10%.

We did this because we suspected that fountain pens being very small articles could so easily be slipped into the Principal Customs Area without pay ment of import duty and with far less risk of being caught.

The reduction was effected in November, 1962.


In that year the yeild on fountain pens was $66,000 while the yield for 1961 was $71,000.

In spite of the substantial reduction, however, the yield in 1963, i.e.

the first full year of 10% duty, was $89,000 and the yield for this year is likely to be of the same order, i.e.

an increase of about 25% in spite of a in duty of 15%.

It does reduction show that when rates are too high, a lower rate of duty could actually bring in more revenue.
Examples can be provided by a number of countries the yield of income tax has where been greater after decreases in rates of tax and increases in reliefs.

This has happened in the United Kingdom, in New Zealand and many other places.

The U.S. Government recently introduced the most sweeping cuts in tax and confidently expects income income to be tax revenue at maintained.

least honest enough to admit, himself and those of his Cabinet colleagues who have working wives.
context I was not very clear whether in this the Singapore Prime Minister was speaking on behalf of the have-nots or the haves, or indeed into which category he placed himself.

He ought, perhaps, to be consistent about his defence of the have-nots and admit that in this particular case there was no question of any benefit to the have-nots.
He admitted that the inhabitants of Serangoon Gardens were materially better off than those of Petaling Jaya because of this relief, but omitted to mention that the relief did nothing at all for the humbler working wife who went out to work and brought remuneration not exceeding $1,000 per year, and did very little where the remuneration did not greatly exceed $1,000.
The Singa pore Prime Minister quoted percent ages the showing how materially lower middle class in Singapore had benefited by these reliefs, the elimina tion of which resulted in alterations in the incidence of tax of the order of 293 per cent and 375 per cent in the examples he chose.
in It that is becoming industry and increasingly well high exceptionally recognised rates of income tax not only scare away the investment we need to start new increase employ ment, such rates lead to the introduc tion of a pioneer industry we have no desire to encourage, namely, the tax avoidance avoidance industry.
Tax flourishes in an atmosphere of widely tax rates and costs govern differing ments a colossal expenditure in legal personnel and voluminous anti-avoi dance legislation which is always a step or two behind the efforts of the increasingly tax avoider.

It recognised simpler that direct taxes may often produce more revenue than confiscatory taxes.
is also lower and the The Singapore Prime Minister was the removal to particularly opposed of tax privilege granted under Singapore income tax law which, as he put it, was designed to favour the lower middle class persons living in Serangoon Estate and also, as he was to to have This particular relief was of con siderable benefit not only to the lower middle class but also to the upper middle class, and especially the richest taxpayers of all, provided they their wives could contrive made directors of companies or to obtain substantial professional earn ings.
For example, where the respec the spouses tive annual earnings of were $5,000 each, the saving in tax the was, I agree, only $265; where respective the earnings of spouses were $10,000 each, the saving in tax was $1,005; and where—and this is the interesting part—the respec tive annual earnings of the spouses were $50,000 each, the saving in tax was no less than $12,455 per annum, and this relief was given by a govern ment which professed the champion of the have-nots (Applause).
I do not wish to be personal, but I honestly hope that this attitude was not taken because a number of mem the Singapore Cabinet had bers of to be annual 3 DECEMBER 1964 3526 3525 wives with earnings.

substantial professional The Singapore Prime Minister explained that his view of what was direct tax and what was indirect tax was different from our own view.
This, of course, is partly a matter of opinion but I should perhaps inform him that there is a strong body of opinion which considers tax on com pany profits tax to be an because in the long run increases are passed on to the consumers, although in in corporate tax have a depressing effect on corporate enterprise.

the short increases indirect run the of lower deceased for beneficiaries Another controversial issue is the Government's intention to harmonise the maximum rate of estate duty at 50%.
I said in my Budget speech that this was a middle figure between the prevailing rates of 40% to 60% in the four regions of Malaysia.

I quoted figures to show that even in the most advanced countries of the Western world, the rates were, in fact, very like much widows and children.

All of us agree persons that estates should pay the to revenue, but even the most advanced countries in the Western world feel that the rates should not be such as to amount to confiscation.
Bearing in mind the difficulty of disposing of substantial assets in developing coun tries where the market is limited, it is worth noting that in those highly industrialised the market is far larger and where sub stantial assets can be disposed of far more easily and where, in many cases, socialist administrations had been in power for many years, such rates are substantially lower.
countries where their fair share in the estate into a higher an estate which has assets in two or more of the four regions of Malaysia.

The effect will almost inevitably be to produce a larger tax bill by bring ing tax bracket.

Secondly, rates of interest on future, be overdue duty will, increased in cases of wilful delay to 12% per annum against the existing rate of 6%.

Thirdly, inter vivos gifts will be aggregated with the estate if made within five years of death.
At the moment, the five-year rule applies only to Singapore.

Fourthly, under certain circumstances, disposal of the assets of an estate would attract capital gains tax as well, i.e.

would be liable to double taxation.

It will, that although a therefore, be noted small concession has been given in screws have been one tightened in four different places.

I would suggest that even the wealthy in Malaysia have a right to a fair deal.
field, the for Batu The most compelling reason of all for making a small reduction in the top bracket is because the prevailing rates in Malaya and Singapore have not achieved their purpose.

Even the Hon'ble Member has admitted that estate duty yields have remained static for many years and as I pointed out in my Budget speech, yields in some years have actually decreased in spite of increasing pros perity.

The reason, of course, is quite simple.


If you make the rates confis catory, you compel transfers before death and the net result is that you lose more than you gain.

Of course, if the principle is that you should cut your nose to spite your face, then I agree that those who have criticised this proposal are right.
It is also worthy of note that in certain developing countries such as Nigeria, Kenya, Uganda and Tanzia there is no estate duty at all and even in heavily taxed Japan the top rate of estate duty where the estate passes to a surviving spouse is 35%.

Further, it was also made clear that this concession again is more apparent than real.
In return for this conces sion, we will aggregate the assets of If the theory is that capital in itself is a wicked thing, then I agree that the rates should be such as to amount to confiscation, but I suggest that the fact that rates at Malayan and Singa pore levels have not prevailed even in those countries which have had socialist governments for many years shows that sinful.
We appreciate that our social ist friends may not agree with us that capital is not all 3527 3 DECEMBER 1964 3528 It is an indication of literally nothing else here.

the mentality of those who have spoken against this proposal that they go so far as to condemn the Government for proposing to raise the exemption limit from $1,000 in Sarawak and in Malaya, Singapore and $10,000 Sabah to $25,000.

In other words, these people think that there is virtue in poverty.
They think it is wrong that a man who has only a small house and to leave to his wife and children should to leave that small not be allowed house intact.

They would them to prefer that when the breadwinner in that family dies, the wife and children in to sell should have order the to pay estate duty Government.
In other words, as we on this side of the House have observed many idea of socialism is that everybody should be levelled down to the lowest level of poverty in order that all may share a common misery.

We, on this side of the House, believe in a levelling up so that more and more will enjoy the fruits of a property owning demo I would suggest, cracy.

(Applause).

therefore, they attain power and then they can put their theories into practice.
they wait until times before, that house their that to is that talking about as The Government has also been criticised for, of all things, the profits tax on the tin industry.

The ground of criticism here is not it worth the yield would only be $5 million a year.

In the first place, I tried to make clear in my Budget Speech that this was by no means a firm estimate as the level of taxation had not yet been determined.
I had deliberately given a conservative estimate as it is likely that the yield for 1965 will be based on accounts financial year ending in 1964, and in many import ant cases ending in March and June 1964.

These accounting periods relate the almost wholly to periods before more dramatic rise in the price of tin.

There the yield for a full year at present price levels would be far in excess of $5 million.
This was made clear in my speech and for there therefore, no excuse is little doubt that the for is, distorting what I said then to mean that the tin industry will be asked only for a token contribution.

that together account rates of into account tax, export duty and to the tin industry, it To be fair should be noted tin has had downs as well as ups in prosperity.

It was only a few years ago that a restric tion scheme was in operation and many mines closed down.
Even now no one can forecast with any certainty the future trend in tin prices.

Even at taxation, without present the proposed taking income profits tax for well over 50% of pretax profits in the case of profitable mines, and in the case of marginal mines may take anything up to 90% or more.

In framing the profits any provisions which might hit the mar ginal mine or low grade ground, and a good proportion of the industry is now in this category.
At the same time, it should be borne in mind that if most of the profit from an industry is taken in tax when times are good, and a good deal even when times are bad, it is unlikely that much long-term investment will take place, and the industry will grind to a halt.

tax, we are avoiding the working of The Singapore Prime Minister made great play with the question of gifts by a rich man to his son made more than 5 years before death.
In our Budget proposals we have increased the inter- vivos period from 3 years to 5 years so as to catch more of these inter-vivos gifts for estate duty.

It is not usual to regard a gift as a disposal for the purpose of a capital gains tax but we have made a start in this direction by fixing the donee with the original price of the asset so that when he disposes of it himself he will pay capital gains tax on the full difference between the sale price and the original cost price.
It would be somewhat unusual if an asset were passed from father to son from generation to generation to avoid capital gains tax.

The sort of asset to which this might happen however is the family home and I have already stated that we will exclude residences from the scope of this tax.

3529 3 DECEMBER 1964 3530 It is interesting to note that the party—i.e.
the Peoples' Action Party— which claims to champion the cause of the have-nots did not consider it fit, or should I say did not have the courage, to introduce a capital gains tax during the years when the P.A.P.

Government had legislative powers to do so.

(Applause).

Yet when this Government goes a great deal further than the P.A.P.

had managed to do, the Singapore Prime Minister thinks we have not plunged in deep enough in our attempt to tax capital gains.
For his part, however, he was afraid to put even one toe in the water for fear that the ripples might alarm his so-called capitalist enemies, whom he both feared, perhaps with good reason, too.
respected and The most feature of remarkable this debate, however, is the fact that many critics from the opposite benches of this House have stated in one and the same breath that turnover tax will ruin many businesses and will also be passed on to the consumer without realizing perhaps, that these two argu ments cancel each other out.

If this tax could ruin a particular business, it obviously cannot be passed on to the consumer.
If, on the other hand, it is passed on it will clearly not ruin the business in question.

It is, how ever, inconceivable that this tax can have both effects at the same time.

The Prime Minister of Singapore in particular, made great play of the argument that turnover tax is not a direct tax at all, it is an indirect tax which can be passed on to the con the sumer.
To us on House, it is significant that the argu ments advanced by him are exactly the same as those advanced by that section of the business community which seems to fear that it may have to absorb at least some of the tax itself.
this side of It is common knowledge that turn over tax is a well-established method of raising revenue which is very widely used indeed but to listen to some of the critics talking one would imagine that such a tax was a drastic measure which was uniformly disastrous in its application.

One newspaper went so far as to call turnover tax a form of the same news fiscal madness.

Yet the in Norway that paper admitted rate is 12%.


It is interesting to note that turnover tax is levied in Argen tina, Austria, Canada, France, Greece, Holland, Italy, Eire, Finland, India, Japan, Pakistan, Spain and West Ger many, to name some of the numerous countries which impose this levy.

In every case, the rate of levy is far higher than the 1/2% imposed by us.
For ex ample, in Italy and Germany there are multistage taxes with basic rates of 3.3% and 4% respectively, in Pakistan the rates are from 15% to 20%, in Japan from 5% to 30% and in Nor way the country quoted in one news paper editorial, the rates range from 11.11% to 40%.

I think further com ment on this aspect of the matter is superfluous.
The turnover tax has, as I have said, been criticised because it is a multi stage tax, and being levied at several stages, will add to the final bill paid by the consumer at the end of the line.

The number of stages through which articles pass on their way from pro ducer or importer to consumer may vary but even if there are as many as four stages the tax should only be 2% or slightly more.
Where the chain of distribution is inordinately long, it may be that the effect of the tax will be to encourage the removal of unnecessary middlemen.

This will by no means be necessarily a bad thing for the consumer.

In the smaller businesses, for example, the grower and the seller of fresh vegetables, or the small retailer, it is likely that the exemption limit of $36,000 per annum will serve to free them from any liability to tax.
that I have been informed by the Inland Revenue Department in many cases taxpayers showing turnover run ning into millions of dollars declared income quite insignificant profits for tax purposes.

In fact, I sometimes feel this that there are many people in country who, their income tax returns, are able to live on love and fresh air.
judge from to 3531 3 DECEMBER 1964 3532 1 am aware that in some cases profit margins are very fine but it is also clear that in many cases profits have been grossly understated unless we are prepared to believe that a man turning over millions of dollars a year is content to live on no more than what he pays his own manager.

It is this type of income tax evader who is now protesting against a turnover tax and, from his point of view, he is quite right.
From the point of view of the the Government, however, and from point of view of honest taxpayer in this country, we are even more right and this is another reason why this tax is completely justified.

In fact, it could well be that this tax could help us uncover many more cases of income tax evasion.

It is quite clear that in many income tax returns the amount declared as purchases in varying degrees in order to reduce the profit of the corresponding year.
In other cases, payrolls have also been known the same reason.

With the introduction of these two new taxes, the evader should he practise this form of evasion will now, with a little cross-checking, be caught between two forces.

to be inflated for is inflated He will be caught in respect of his falsifying his purchases figure by the operation of the turnover tax and by the checking work done in connection with tax where he has padded his wage bill with fictitious wages.
the payroll Although certain points have been covered either in my Budget speech or the White Paper or in statements to the Press, I would like to clarify them again in my reply.

I take this oppor tunity of mentioning that all the tax changes are explained at some length in the White Paper which has now been reprinted and is available to the public at 50 cents a copy.

First then, there is the question of stockbrokers.


Where the stockbroker merely obtains a commission on a transaction between a buyer and a seller only the commis sion will count as turnover for the purpose of the tax.

It has already been that exports are not subject to turnover tax stated certain turnover and that goods subject to export duty and commodities other exported in a raw state are not subject to tax at any stage.
This means that, for example, in the case of rubber, the grower, the dealer, the miller, the remiller and the exporter are all exempt but where the rubber is manufactured into tyres or tennis shoes the sales of the manufactured goods in Malaysia are subject to the tax but the exports are not.

Similarly, tin is exempt at all stages but con sumer goods which contain tin and which are sold in Malaysia will not be exempted.
Since exports in general are not taxable, it follows that the exports of the entrepot trade in the true sense of the word, that is where commodities are imported merely to be re-exported the same state, will be in virtually exempt.

As regards padi mills, these will be exempt where run by a co-operative society because we have exempted all co-operative societies tax.
Further, the smallest privately-owned mills where turnover does not exceed $36,000 a year will be exempt under the general exemption granted to small businesses.

from the the the right though levying turnover The Government has also been accused of tax without studying its impact.

All I said in my Budget speech was that this tax was the in principle, initial rate should be low enough to make sure that it can be borne without hardship by all sections of commerce and industry.
We promised to keep a careful watch on the incidence of this tax so that we may decide in future how it should be developed, if further is considered necessary.

development As I mentioned in my Budget speech, the future development of the tax may be the present in proposed structure which does not preclude adjustment between different types of business within that structure.

On the ultimate development may well lie in the direc tion of a single stage tax.
What we have to do, in the first place, however, is to establish the administrative and the other hand, the direction of 3533 3 DECEMBER 1964 3534 this infrastructure of is what future statistical development and the present proposal and design have achieved.

We have also provided that the really small retailer will not pay this tax "as a result of the exemption limit of $36,000 per annum, a point I that referred many shopkeepers will not be subject to this levy.

to earlier.
to earlier.

This means The Opposition have come out very strongly against the payroll tax of 2% which, as I have pointed out, becomes a net tax of 1.2% where income tax is payable at 40% and 1% where tax is payable at 50%.

This tax, we were told, was directed at labour and would lead to retrenchments, apparently on a wholesale scale.

Let us examine more closely the levelled strictures which have been against the payroll tax even though it is levied at a modest rate of only 2%.
This is equivalent to a 2% rise in pay for employees.

I wonder if there is any this firm or business company, country which, if faced with a demand its for a 2% in wages from employees, could honestly say that accession to such a demand could put it out of business.

How often have we seen employers, when threatened with a strike, agree to a wage increase far in excess of 2%.
How often has this thing happened in the past rise in to sorry I am interrupt Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification, and the Honourable Minister.
The Honourable Minister will agree that wage claims, which amount to an increased 2% of the wage bill, may not cause consider able uneasiness amongst employers who have got only a small number of people on their payrolls, but he will if an employer surely agree employs large numbers, say, 3,000 or 4,000 people on his payroll, and where a union makes wage claims, which mean an increase of 2% on the total wage bill for 3,000 or 4,000 employees, then it is quite a different matter; and the fear which some of us expressed is that in industrial undertakings, which are they do not employ, mind you, just five, ten or intensive, labour that fifteen but thousands; and those indus tries would be affected by this.
As a trade unionist, Sir, I have made several claims for wage increases amounting to more in small under takings, but when it comes to a very large undertaking—labour intensive— I would be very, very chary of making wage claims amounting to more than 2% of the total wages.

than 2% Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I would not have raised this point, Sir, previously, but since the Honourable Member for Bungsar has raised it, I would like to answer.
Even the newspaper which criticised this tax as a form of "fiscal madness", has admitted that the pay roll tax will bear most heavily on the rubber industry, because two-thirds of the cost of production of a pound of rubber consists of wages.

Now, as far as the rubber industry is concerned, I probably have a little knowledge.

I have been associated with this industry in the past and, perhaps, it is true to say that the interests of my family and myself in this industry are substantial.
Yet, we have chosen to levy a payroll tax on the rubber industry, which will be I am prepared to bet with the Honourable Member for Bungsar that the rubber industry can stand this tax and it will not retrench.

Time will show whether he is right or I am right.

the most hard hit, and Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Sir, I really beg your pardon for interrupting.
I will quite agree that in all probability the rubber industry will be able to stand this increase, because my own belief is that the enormous profits it in effect had been making had not been passed on to their employees.

Let us take the fact that I mentioned in my speech.

I referred not to the rubber industry but to the public transport undertakings.

I might mention here about the public transport companies in Singapore.

Let us take one com pany, the largest company, where it employs 3,500 employees.
Its profits are marginal, practically non-existent, and its revenues are severely hit by the recent disturbances which took place in Singapore.

Now, this company would have the diesel tax—by itself the not large—the turnover tax and 3535 3 DECEMBER 1964 3536 payroll tax—the payroll tax is 2% on 3,500; and I shall be most grateful, Mr Speaker, Sir, in any unrest which is going to develop, if the Honourable Minister will negotiate with the com pany for the union.
Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, as I have said, the rubber industry is the industry which probably will be the most hard hit by this tax.

If the rubber industry can stand the impact of this tax, I do not see any reason why any Singapore industry will not be able to stand the impact.

May I suggest that trouble, perhaps, with a certain number of Singapore industries is that they have been spoon fed in the past?
Now for the first time, under a socialist Government, they have got to face the full force of equal competi tion.

Is that why probably they are afraid?

I shall elaborate on this point later.

(Laughter).

(Applause).

the There are already signs that some firms propose to absorb the payroll tax without wholesale retrenchment of staff or in fact any retrenchment at all.
The Chairman of Rothmans Pall Mall (Malaya) Ltd at the annual general meeting of that company stated in his in the Malayan address, as reported Times of Wednesday, that he thought that his Company would decide to absorb the additional burden resulting from the increase in tobacco duty in introduction of the Singapore and payroll I do not remember any such "ruin and retrench ment" arguments being used when the E.P.F.

and C.P.F.

schemes were intro duced some years ago.


These schemes, as far as the employer was concerned, amounted tax and of course the rate of levy was 5%, not 2%.

I am not aware of heavy retrench ments having followed the introduction of this scheme nor of arguments being put forward then that the tax would increase employers would pass it on.

tax.
tax.

Moreover, to a payroll because prices There are two differences between the present payroll tax and schemes former in like would to a general revenue and its impact is not restricted to the lower salary groups that the contribution the E.P.F.

provide but applies to the directors and execu tives of big companies as well.
This, perhaps, is where the shoe pinches and it is interesting to see the self-styled voices of trodden masses aligning themselves with the voice of the big business in criticising this tax.

(Applause).

the down Payroll tax is levied in Australia, Austria, Belgium, Chile, Argentina, Eire, Finland, France, West Germany, Holland, Italy, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland, to name a number of the countries which have adopted this form of taxation.
It will be noted also that I deliberately omitted some of the larger from this list, Hon'ble Members will be interested to know that in every case which I have quoted the rate of tax is than 2%, in many cases far more higher in Austria and Belgium the levies amount to about 20% while the total sums payable by an employer total about 50% of the payroll.

than 2%.
than 2%.

For example industrialised in France countries increases Another argument levelled against these two taxes is that, in the last analysis, they would be passed on to shrewd the consumer.

One has a suspicion that if this could be done, the howls of protest would not have been so loud.
It is because the rates are too low to justify price increases, are if price or because to, such a business would resorted probably it would be lose out as undercut by its competitors, that we get these howls of rage.

I suggest the real reason why these taxes are unpo pular is precisely because the effects cannot be passed on to is fortified by the fact that these protests have come from quarters which, in the past, have not been noted for their solicitous concern the ordinary people of this country.
The very fact from that such protests have come the such quarters Government in what it has done.

(Applause).

is evidence is absolutely the consumer and in some quarters this belief that right for As I have already stated, the pay roll tax will not be applied to that part of the payroll which consists of 3537 3 DECEMBER 1964 3538 that certain pensions paid to retired employees.
I cases, in understand where unemployment has been caused by the disruption of business arising from confrontation, some employers have unemployment benefits to employees who have been temporarily laid off.

It is our intention to regard unemployment pay paid in such to pensions and to exclude this also from the incidence of payroll tax.
circumstances similar paying been as in the the Before I leave the subject of turn over and payroll taxes, I would like to say that I would be the first to agree that it is possible that anomalies incidence of would appear these two taxes.

This is why to play safe, we rates have made extremely low.

I have already said and I repeat that we will be vigilant for possible hardship and will keep to an open mind and be prepared the adopt flexible a administration of taxes.

(Applause).
(Applause).

We will welcome any repre constructive sentations which would help us to administer these taxes fairly.

In fact, for the benefit of the Hon'ble Member for Bungsar, I would like to inform him that I will have already received by the end of this week a deputation from the Singapore Chambers of Commerce.

attitude these new suggestions and in The P.A.P.


's contribution to pro ducing more revenue from industry has been to distribute pioneer certificates rather in the manner of one distributing handbills to a whole series of highly capital-intensive in Singa pore, in some cases where the applica tions had previously been rejected in Malaya.

industries Their ideas on how to raise new revenue are simple—leave Singapore alone and collect it all from the Mala yan tin mines.
They are even ready to work out figures for us on how much money we can collect.

The Honourable Members from the P.A.P.

benches have expressed, in their usual fashion, a great moral concern for income redistribution.

Redistribution, as we all know, means taking from those who have more and giving to those who have less.
The idea of redis tribution, of course, applies not only to single individuals, but also to groups and states, as evidenced by the agree ments regarding development assistance to the Borneo States.

the I can only conclude that the Honour P.A.P.

able Members from benches, if they have any concern for consistency, would be forced to support a taxation programme bearing relatively heavier on Singapore than on the other States of Malaysia.
This conclusion follows from the principle of taking more from those who have more, since per capita GNP in Singapore, estimated at $1,440, is the highest in the country, standing 65% above the per capita level in the States of Malaya, 100% above the level in Sabah, and 140% above the level in Sarawak.

Furthermore, the tax burden in relation to income per capita, is lower in Singapore than in the States of!

Malaya, and lower than the average burden for Malaysia as a whole.
The opposition on the part of Singapore to the taxes which will be generating that State, significant combined with their enthusiasm for heavier taxes on the tin industry in the States of Malaya, sounds somewhat inconsistent with their claims for since rity and concern over justice and fair distribution of the tax burden.
After hearing a call for redistribution reite rated so often, and with such fervour, I think this House will have every right to expect a generous offer from the State of Singapore when the question of the apportionment of Federal reve nue in Singapore is reviewed next year.

(Applause).
(Applause).

This House may well look to a reversal of the 40/60 forward proportions now in force, with the Have State of Singapore offering to take the 40%,, so that 60% of Federal revenue in Singapore will accrue to the Federal Government to help finance its expendi tures in the Have Not States.
revenue in As Malaysian Finance Minister, it is my duty to raise money in a balanced manner from Malaysia as a whole, so that each region bears a fair share, hence the stress throughout my Budget speech on tax harmonization.

I pointed out that in harmonizing there were bound to be a few curious 3539 3 DECEMBER 1964 3540 side effects because all harmonization could not be to the highest tax rates in all directions.
in Singapore where this condition obtains and for the rest 60% or more of the capital is held by local capitalists.

By far the largest increase in income tax is provided by Malaya.

Singapore's contribution is modest and Singapore's inhabitants are still very much better off than those living in Malaya as far as the incidence of indirect taxation is con cerned.

Yet the P.A.P.

in their first test of how sincere is their desire to be a fully participating member of Malaysia have failed lamentably.
Their proposal in effect is "Don't tax us, tax the Malayan tin miners!"

that The most startling comment on the revenue proposals, in fact, has come from the P.A.P.

benches led by the Singapore Prime Minister.

Broadly, he has said these proposals are regressive rather than progressive on the ground that they will hit the poor rather than those best able to bear them.

This, Party regards itself as a socialist party, i.e.

its particular concern is for the poor.

It is against the capita list.


Yet, this same Party, this champion of the poor, has been unjust to the contributors to the Central Provident Fund in Singapore, and let us remem ber that these are all wage earners in the income groups, in with holding what was legally, morally, and rightly, their due by crediting their con tributions with only 2 1/2% per annum when their investments yielded 5% or more.
It needed the continual and con stant prodding of a so-called right wing Government in the States of Malaya to bring this Party to its senses.

It was only as a result of such prodding that it eventually returned an amount which bore some relation to the return on its investments.

It is also noteworthy that this socialist party gives pioneer status even to companies which are 100% foreign owned.

(HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Shame.)


so-called lower Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Speaker, Sir, perhaps there should be some clarification here.

I think the Minister should not select his facts.

there are He would agree, I think, probably two petroleum oil companies Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I am glad the Honourable Member for Bungsar has admitted that there are at least two companies.

(Applause).
(Applause).

Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Speaker, Sir, there may be special reasons for this and I have no doubt the Honourable Minister of that Finance from Singapore is more than capable of giving a more than adequate reply to that.

to Enche' Tan Siew Sin: It is- prepared to give a status—when I say "it", I mean the P.A.P.

Government—which carries with it substantial tax con cessions without any statutory obliga tion on the part of the company concerned anything on spend factory or machinery.
That is why I stated in my Budget speech that we will amend the Singapore Ordi nance next year.

(Laughter).

I cannot think of even a right wing government in a highly industrialised country giving such one-sided concessions to compa nies, and foreign companies to boot, as admitted by the Honourable Member for Bungsar.

It must be unparalleled in the history of a so-called socialist party in a developing country.

It is clear that the so-called socialism of this Party is utter hypocrisy.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

The Honourable Member for Kota Star Selatan touched on the financial position of the States of Malaya.

In particular, he would like to know the position of Kelantan.

that Kelantan unfortunately is now in serious financial difficulties and this situation would appear to have been brought about entirely by its own doing.
We understand until recently it had insufficient funds at its disposal to meet salaries and allowances and other liabilities for the month of such November, 1964, and under circumstances the Federal Government has been obliged to agree to its raising a loan in accordance with Article 111 (HONOURABLE (2) of the Constitution.

MEMBERS: Shame.)
MEMBERS: Shame.)

3541 3 DECEMBER 1964 3542 It has been the Federal Government's practice to advance to State Govern ments funds to meet the cost of finan cing Federal expenditure in the States but it would appear that Kelantan, because of its deficit, has made use of the the Federal advance in meeting commitments.

The Federal State's Government is now actively looking into the matter.
Recently the Federal Government has also had to make special arrangements for the payment of Federal in liabilities Kelantan.

incurred Although a large part of the debate on the Budget has been devoted to the new tax proposals, there were points raised which relate to policies deter mining expenditure on the appropria tions of funds.
from that left so-called the people of Here we have been subjected to the same cliches, the same juvenile non Left sense the (Laughter) which the States of Malaya have rejected repea the tedly since 1955.
To say Alliance Government has the masses uncared for or neglected is to ignore the very large sums this Govern ment has spent on rural development, the maintenance of a guaranteed mini mum price for padi which has been supporting a major commodity pro duced by over 40,000 padi planters, the increase of over 90,000 in the number of children attending rural schools in the first three years of the present Five Year Plan, over 3,200 new classrooms constructed in the same period, nearly and new 250,000 acres planted under the smallholders' Fund B, over 400 new midwives' clinics, over 4,000 families settled on over 63,000 acres of F.L.D.A.
schemes, over 180,000 acres planted under other smallholders' alienation schemes, water supplies, electrification and so on.

In short, to criticise this Government for neglect of the rural people is to deny ten years of improvement, vast expen social diture on construction and service programmes, and an inter nationally acknowledged record being studied by a constant stream of political leaders and economic planners from other newly developing countries.
replanted This Government's rejection of the the basic position put forward by Opposition from the Left goes beyond a mere refutation of its errors of fact.

This rejection is based on a fundamen tally different analysis of the economic requirements of Malaysia at this stage its development, and a different of conclusion as the most effective policies required to raise the incomes of the mass of farmers and rural and industrial workers.
to As I have pointed out, the assertion that the Alliance Government has not been concerned with raising the living standards of the lower income sections of the population, is utter nonsense.

But this Government is, in fact, the Government, and must therefore exer cise responsibility in comparison with the Opposition which is free to criticise and theorize without being in danger of having to face the reality of actually governing Malaysia.
Since this Govern ment is the Government, it must make the difficult choice facing all govern ments in underdeveloped countries—the choice between policies aimed essen tially at redistribution of what wealth the country already has, or policies aimed primarily at the that wealth as rapidly as total of possible.
True, and redistribution to a certain growth are compatible extent; and its increasingly progressive outlook on the the tax Development Budget, our judgment as to how much redistribution can be safely attempted at present.The history of every successful developing country, however, has shown that premature or excessive redistribution of the pie, when it is still a small pie, results in limiting (if not retarding) the growth of the whole pie, with the ultimate effect that everyone's share is much smaller than it would have been if policies had concentrated on enlarging the economic pie in the first place.
reflects, along with this Budget, with increasing side is clear Compared with most of the under developed world, that it Malaysia has done pretty well by its present set of economic institution.

We are the first to admit that the progress achieved so far is inadequate.
We must, of course, strive for very much higher 3543 3 DECEMBER 1964 3544 levels of income and welfare, but it does not follow that the most efficient method of reaching yet higher levels of income is to dismantle the economic institutions which have brought us a fair distance already.

On the contrary, the intelligent course is to improve on the system already working well and help it to generate growth in income even greater than what has already been achieved.
The Honourable Member for Batu often compares the situation in Malaysia with that of other countries when attempting to judge the merits of what he finds at home, and he shows an admirable willingness to learn from the experience of others and to consult the books of experts.

In this connection my Honourable colleague the Minister Industry of Commerce has and mentioned the Honourable Member for Batu sometimes probably reads the wrong books.
that May I suggest that before offering Malaysia—I am now referring to the Honourable Member for Batu, who is not here—a socialist pick-me-up, a socialist prescription—as casually as he may offer one of his patients some tonic—that he compare the record of economic growth of those other Asian countries practising rampant capitalism, i.e.

Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines and Thailand, with those countries follow ing socialist or anti-capitalist policies, of which only Indonesia?
shall mention I those Several Honourable Members felt that social service expenditures are insufficient, and expenditures on health, labour, social welfare and housing especially should be increased.

The Alliance Government's achievement in this field compares very favourably with in other and especially developing countries.
Since the Alliance Government came into power, recurrent expenditure health, labour and social welfare has been increased from $140 million in 1955 to the the $407 million proposed States of Malaya alone as shown in the 1965 Estimates.

This is almost a trebling of expenditure, in ten years.

It is true that primary emphasis has been given to education although expenditure on Medical and Health and on Social education, for on Welfare has also more than doubled.

This is as it should be.


The Alliance Government is not unaware of social needs.

The votes for social services in Sarawak and Sabah for 1964 and 1965 have also shown dramatic increases.

It is, however, necessary to maintain a to balance in the Government effort provide more social services and to promote economic development which would enable a higher level of social services to be sustained.
for Batu In the course of the Budget debate it has been suggested by the Honour able Member for Pasir Puteh and the Honourable Member that adequate funds have not been provided to RIDA to carry out its programme of rural development.

A comparison was also made that whilst Government has made available an interest free loan of $37.5 million to M.I.D.F.L., RIDA has been starved of funds.

Mr Speaker, Sir, possibly Honourable Members who have made these allegations are not aware of the actual position.
Since 1957 a total of $30,498,000 has been made available in the form of annual subventions.

In addition, under the First Five-Year Plan, a total of the $7.6 million was Authority for various items of develop ment expenditure.

Under the current Five-Year Plan a further sum of $2.4 million has been provided the Authority's loan programme and $7.6 from being million as grants.
Far starved of fact in accumulated funds over the years, and as at September had a total of $7.7 million in fixed deposits with commer cial banks and Treasury Bills as follows: funds, RIDA to RIDA spent for by Administration Fund Industries Fund Loan Programme ... $5.7 million ... 0.5 million ... 1.5 million finance The above figures of for RIDA however, do not give a com plete picture of the substantial sums of funds which have been channelled in recent years to the rural sector.
In the extent and order nature assistance provided to cater for the many facets of rural needs, I should like to refer the Honourable Member for Batu to of Government to appreciate 3545 3 DECEMBER 1964 3546 in Malaya under the Interim Review of page 7 of the Development Second Five-Year Plan.
It will be seen from the data on that page that the expenditure on major elements of rural development under the Second Five- Year Plan for the years 1961-62 alone amount the to $241,343,000 provision approved for 1963 accounted for a further $163,361,000.I would also like to refer the Honourable Member to pages 7 to 9 of Command Paper No.

38 of 1964 being the Treasury Memo randum on the Development Estimates for 1965 which will give him an accu rate summary of what Government has done for the rural areas.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see".

and in in 1965 financial position It will help to put this entire Budget debate in perspective if we recall that no Honourable Member has questioned the Federal the basic arithmetic of Government's in 1965.

No Honourable Member has questioned the fact that revenue under the taxes and rates in force before 25th November would be virtually the face of unchanged requirements.
No sharply increasing Honourable Member has suggested that this Government is being irrespon sible to restore taking measures what would otherwise be an alarming deficit and a dangerous rate of decline accumulated in the House has assets.

implicitly and explicitly voiced its agreement with this Government that the over-all financial position justifies and necessitates measures raise additional revenue of the magnitudes I estimated in my speech.
the Government's short, In in to viewed I have already dealt with the criticisms made of specific aspects of the different taxes being debated.

As I have shown, most of these individual criticisms do not stand up under close in scrutiny.

When the financial perspective of implicitly requirements accepted by the criticisms taken as a whole fall to the ground.

The need to maintain this Government's policy of sound financial management and hard is beyond debate.
But have money the over-all least at the Opposition, revenue for Honourable Members who dislike the tax proposals any serious alternatives that can raise additional revenue of the three required?

Only magnitude significant been have suggestions mentioned: more progressive income tax rates for the rich, more progressive taxation of the estates of deceased persons, and higher profits tax on tin.
As I have shown, raising the top income tax rates to confiscatory levels would generate a relatively small amount of revenue in relation to our requirements.

The same consideration applies even more strongly to the call for higher estate duties.

As I have explained the reason for the limitations on the profits tax likely to be collected in 1965.
I would finally draw attention to the fact that a substantial deficit will still remain after taking account of the revenue that will be generated by the new measures, and any additional revenue from that might accrue beyond the $5 million estimated for the profits tax for 1965 should be viewed as a welcome contribution this deficit further and not as a substitute for the other revenue measures.
reducing industry towards tin, the for tin the like In conclusion, I would this House to reflect on the significance of this 1965 Budget that is before us.

This the Government's Budget reflects positive attitude fiscal and to financial problems facing the Federal Government.

The challenge of Indo nesian aggression must be met by strengthening our security forces as well as by maintaining the develop ment momentum we have achieved.
The new tax proposals represent a realistic fiscal effort to meet the strain that is emerging, if we are to preserve the strength of our currency and the financial stability we have enjoyed.

Much concern has been expressed over the effect of the new tax proposals on the health of the business community.
It should be borne in mind that even after taking account of the additional revenue expected from these proposals, the excess of Federal Government expenditure over its total receipts will be larger in 1965 than it will be in 1964.

The net effect of this larger deficit and of the continuing expansion in Federal 3547 3 DECEMBER 1964 3548 Government activity will be further to stimulate the pace of economic activity in Malaysia.
The programmes of the Federal Government in the past few years have been one of the major contributing factors behind the increa singly buoyant business conditions.

This Budget carries these programmes forward while preserving financial stability, economic facts which far surpass, in their significance for the business community, the impact of the new taxes proposed.

Thank you, Sir.

(Applause).

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time.

Adjourned at 8.40 p.m.