Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698933634458.pdf (Malaysia)
Volume I Friday No.

18 16th October, 1964 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REP RESENTATIVES) OFFICIAL REPO RT FIRST SESSION OF THE SECOND PARLIAMENT OF MALAYSIA CONTENTS ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS [Col. 2397} ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE (Motion) [Col. 2405] BILLS: The Supplementary Supply (No.
2) 1964 Bill [Col. 2405] Committee: Heads S. 1, S. 2, S. 5, S. 7, S. 10, S. 70 and S. 67N [Col. 24051 Head S. 12 [Col. 2426] Head S. 13 [Col. 2428] Head S. 14 [Col. 2437] Heads S. 15 and S. 66D [Col. 2446] Head S. 16 [Col. 24481 Heads S. 19, S. 20, •S.
21, S. 22, S. 23 and S. 67V [Col. 2459] Head S. 24 [Col. 2469] Heads S. 25, S. 26, S. 28, S. 66H, S. 67K and S. 67L [Col. 2470] Head S. 30 [Col. 2481] Heads S. 34, S. 36, S. 37, S. 40, S. 72, S. 65F, S. 65J, S. 65M, S. 66J, S. 66K, S. 66R, S. 67G and S. 67T [Col. 2481] Heads S. 46 and S. 47 [Col. 2486] Head S. 49 [Col. 2486] Heads S. 60 and S. 67U [Col. 2486] Head S. 69 [Col. 2486] Heads S. 71 and S. 75 [Col. 2487] Heads S. 66M and S. 66N [Col. 2487] The Consolidated Fund (Expenditure on Account) Bill [Col. 24881 The Workmen's Compensation (Amend- ment) Bill [Col. 24891 The Merchant Shipping (Amendment) Bill [Col. 2494] The Courts of Judicature (Amendment) Bill [Col. 2495] ADJOURNMENT SPEECH: Membaiki Jalan Kepong [Col. 2496] DI-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BEND CHONO, A .
M.N., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN KUALA LUMPUR 1965 MALAYSIA DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report First Session of the Second Dewan Ra`ayat Friday, 16th October, 1964 The House met at half-past nine o'clock a.m.

PRESENT : The Honourable Mr Speaker, TUAN SYED ESA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S.

the Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister of Youth, Culture and Sports, Y.T.M.

TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PUTRA AL-HAJ, K.O.M.

(Kuala Kedah).
(Kuala Kedah).

the Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N.

(Johor Timor).

„ the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah).

the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N.

(Sungei Slput).

„ the Minister of Transport, DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR , P.M.N.

(Pontian Utara).

the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR JOHARI (Kedah Tengah).
„ the Minister of Health, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah).

„ the Minister of Education, ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB (Kuantan).

the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan).

the Minister for Welfare Services, TUAN HAJI ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT ALT KHAN, J.M.N., J.P. (Batang Padang).

the Minister for Local Government and Housing, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH, P.J.K.

(Ulu Selangor).
(Ulu Selangor).

the Minister for Sarawak Affairs, DATO' TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.M.N., P.D.K.

(Sarawak).

„ the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' V. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K.

(Klang).

the Minister of Information and Broadcasting, ENCHE' SENU BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Kubang Pasu Barat).

the Minister of Lands and Mines, ENCHE' MOHAMED GHAZALI BIN HAJI JAWI (Ulu Perak).

the Minister without Portfolio, ENCHE' PETER Lo Su YIN (Sabah).
2391 16 OCTOBER 1964 2392 The Honourable the Assistant Minister of National and Rural Development and Assistant Minister of Justice, ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN BIN YA`KUB (Sarawak).

the Assistant Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN BULON (Bagan Datoh).

the Assistant Minister of Youth, Culture and Sports, ENGKU MUHSEIN BIN ABDUL KADIR (Trengganu Tengah).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N.

(Melaka Utara).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL KARIM BIN ABU, A.M.N.

(Melaka Selatan).
(Melaka Selatan).

WAN ABDUL KADIR BIN ISMAIL (Kuala Trengganu Utara).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAHIM ISHAK (Singapore).

TUAN HAJI ABDUL RASHID BIN HAJI JAIS (Sabah).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN, K.M.N., P.J.K.

(Krian Laut).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HUSSIN (Lipis).

ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN GUL AHMAD MIANJI (Pasir Mas Hulu).

DATO' ABDULLAH BIN ABDULRAHMAN , Dato' Bijaya di-Raja (Kuala Trengganu Selatan).

Y.A.M.

TUNKU ABDULLAH IBNI AL-MARHUM TUANKU ABDUL RAHMAN, P.P.T.

(Rawang).
(Rawang).

TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD.

SALLEH, A.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S.

(Segamat Utara).

„ ENCHE' ABU BAKAR BIN HAMZAH (Bachok).

TURN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kelantan Hilir).

„ ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N.

(Muar Utara).

„ O.K.K.

DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

DR AWANG BIN HASSAN, S.M.J.

(Muar Selatan).

„ ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).

„ ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG (Sarawak).

„ PENGARAH BANYANG ANAK JANTING (Sarawak).

ENCHE' CHAN SEONG YOON (Setapak).


„ ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).

ENCHE' CHEN WING SUM (Damansara).

„ ENCHE' CHIA CHIN SHIN (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' FRANCIS CHIA NYUK TONG (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' CHIA THYE POH (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' CHIN FOON (Ulu Kinta).

„ ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK TANGKUN (Sarawak).

„ DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI ABDUL MAJID (Johor Bahru Timor).

„ DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N.

(Jitra-Padang Terap).

„ ENCHE' S. FAZUL RAHMAN, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

„ ENCHE' GANING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah).


ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N .

(Penang Utara) .

DR GOH KENG SWEE (Singapore) .

„ „ ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N.

(Kapar).

2393 16 OCTOBER 1964 2 394 The Honourable ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD YUNUS , A.M.N., J. P. (Kulim Utara).

„ ENCHE' HANAFIAH BIN HUSSAIN , A.M.N.

(Jerai).

„ ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH , A.M.N.

(Baling).

„ WAN HASSAN BIN WAN DAUD (Tumpat).

„ ENCHE' STANLEY HO NYUN KHIU, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

„ ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN TO' MUDA HASSAN, A.M.N.


(Raub).

„ ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN MOHD.

NOORDIN, A.M.N., P .J.K.

(Pant).

„ ENCHE ' HUSSEIN BIN SULAIMAN (Ulu Kelantan).

„ TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu).

„ ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah).

„ ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan).

„ PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' KAM WOON WAH, J .

P. (Sitiawan).

„ ENCHE' KHOO PENG LOONG (Sarawak).


„ ENCHE' KOW KEE SENG (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak) .

„ ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim) .

ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

„ DR LIM CHONG EU (Tanjong).

ENCHE' LIM PEE HUNG (Alor Star).

„ DR MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMAD (Kota Star Selatan).

„ ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson).

„ ENCHE' JOE MANJAJI (Sabah).

„ DR HAJI MEGAT KHAS, D.P.M.P ., J.P., P.J.K.

(Kuala Kangsar).

„ ENCHE' MOHD .

ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K.

(Sabah).


„ ENCHE' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA , P.M.K.

(Pasir Puteh).

„ ENCHE' MOHD.

DAUD BIN ABDUL SAMAD (Besut).

„ ENCHE' MOHAMED IDRIS BIN MATSIL, J.M.N., P .J.K., J.P. (Jelebu -Jempol).

„ ENCHE' MOHD .

TAHIR BIN ABDUL MAJID, S.M.S., P.J.K.

(Kuala Langat).

„ ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD , A.M.N.

(Temerloh).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ZAHIR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Sungei Patani).

„ WAN MOKHTAR BIN AHMAD (Kemaman).

„ TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan).
„ ENCHE ' MUHAMMAD FAKHRUDDIN BIN HAJI ABDULLAH (Pasir Mas Hilir).

„ TUAN HAJI MUHAMMAD SU`AUT BIN HAJI MUHD.

TAHIR (Sarawak).

„ DATO' HAJI MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ABDUL JABAR , D.P.M.S., A.M.N., J.P. (Sabak Bernam).

„ DATO' NIK AHMAD KAMIL, D.K., S.P .

M.K., S.M .J.K., P.M.N., P.Y.G.P ., Dato' Sri Setia Raja (Kota Bharu Hilir).

ENCHE' NG FAH YAM (Batu Gajah).

„ TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Hilir Perak).

2395 16 OCTOBER 1964 2396 The Honourable ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Perlis Utara).
(Perlis Utara).

ABANG OTHMAN BIN HAJI MOASILI (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN WOK (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' S. RAJARATNAM (Singapore).

„ TUAN HAJI RAHMAT BIN HAJI DAUD, A.M.N.

(Johor Bahru Barat).

„ ENCHE' RAMLI BIN OMAR (Krian Darat).

„ TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD.

SAID, P.J.K., J.P. (Rembau-Tampin).

„ RAJA ROME BIN RAJA MA`AMOR (Kuala Selangor).

„ ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB, P.I.S.

(Muar Pantai).

„ ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh).


„ ENCHE' SIOw LOONG HIN, P.J.K.

(Seremban Barat).

„ ENCHE' SNG CHIN JOO (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' S0H AH TECK (Batu Pahat) .

„ ENCHE' SULEIMAN BIN ALI (Dungun).

„ ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN ALI, P.J.K.

(Larut Utara).

„ ENCHE' TAI KUAN YANG (Kulim-Bandar Bahru).

„ ENCHE' TAMA WENG TINGGANG WAN (Sarawak).

„ DR TAN CHEE KHOON (Batu).

„ ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan).

„ ENCHE' TAN TOH HONG (Bukit Bintang).

„ ENCHE' TAN TSAK Yu (Sarawak).


„ ENCHE' TIAH ENG BEE (Kluang Utara) .

„ PENGHULU FRANCIS UMPAU ANAK EMPAM (Sarawak) .

ENCHE' YEH PAO TZE (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas).

„ ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TZE (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' YONG NYUK LIN (Singapore).

„ TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD.

TAIB (Langat).

ABSENT : The Honourable the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence and Minister of National and Rural Development , TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N.

(Pekan).
(Pekan).

the Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN (Kota Star Utara).

the Assistant Minister of Education, ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A .M.N., P.J .K.

(Sepang).

„ WAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU TUANKU BUJANG (Sarawak).

TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID (Seberang Utara).

„ CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' ALI BIN HAJI AHMAD (Pantian Selatan).

ENCHE' CHAN CHENG WEN, A.M.N.

(Kluang Selatan).

„ ENCHE ' C. V. DEVAN NAIR (Bungsar).

„ DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J .


P. (Sabah').

2397 16 OCTOBER 1964 2398 The Honourable ENCHE' Ho SEE BENG (Singapore).

DATO' SYED JA`AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, P.M.N.

(Johor Tenggara).

ENCHE' JEK YEUN THONG (Singapore).

ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak).

DATU KHOO SIAK CHIEW, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' LEE KUAN YEW (Singapore).

ENCHE' LEE SAN CROON, K.M.N.

(Segamat Selatan).

ENCHE' LING BENG SIEW (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LIM HUAN BOON (Singapore).

ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat).

DATO' LIM KIM SAN, D.U.T.


(Singapore).

ORANG TUA MOHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah).

ENCHE' MUSTAPHA BIN AHMAD (Tanah Merah).

DR NG KAM Pox, J.P. (Telok Anson).

ENCHE' ONG KEE HUI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' ONG PANG BOON (Singapore).

ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Timor).

ENCHE' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM (Menglembu).

ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak).

DATU DONALD ALOYSIUS STEPHENS, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

PENGIRAN TAHIR PETRA (Sabah).

ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka).

DR TOH CHIN CHYE (Singapore).


ENCHE' TOH THEAM HOCK (Kampar).

ENCHE' WEE TOON BOON (Singapore).

PRAYERS (Mr Speaker in the Chair) ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS RESTRICTION ON IMPORT OF SUGAR 1.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu) asks the Minister of Commerce and Industry to state whether he is aware that by restricting the import of sugar the price of sugar has gone up, and whe- ther he would consider removing the restriction until local sugar mills are able to produce sufficient quantities.
The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Dr Lim Swee Aun): Sir, I am not aware that the price of sugar has gone up since the introduction of import restriction.

In fact, it has gone down.

The present restriction on the import of sugar is to protect the local sugar refining industry against the wide fluctuations in the world price of sugar, particularly as between refined and raw sugar against which tariff protection alone would not be effective.
It is the policy of the Govern- ment to stabilise the price of sugar to t'he local consumer, and the establish- ment of a local refining industry will be a means of achieving this objective.

Ir view of the above, it is not possible to consider the removal of the restriction.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: In reply to some of the questions that I have asked, the Minister has kindly indi- cated to me the increasing amount of sugar that is being refined in this country.
In view of the fact that com- petition in any sphere is good whe- ther it is in business or otherwise when the production in this country 2399 16 OCTOBER 1964 2400 meets the needs of the local market, would he consider removing the restriction so that there is competition?

If you protect the local market all the time the local person, and a capitalist is the same the world over, will naturally raise his price to the detriment of the consumer.
Dr Lim Swee Aun: I am glad that the Honourable Member is concerned about the interests of the consumer and so is the Government.

As I have said, our policy is to try to produce a stable price of sugar for local consumers, until such time as we produce our own raw sugar, and even then, we might have to keep on the restriction.
The reason is that the world market price of sugar fluctuates very violently, and as we depend at the present juncture on the import of raw sugar to be refined in this country, when the price of raw sugar goes up in the world market, then the price of sugar to the local consumer will go up, as has happened last year.

But because, however, our own local refinery has to purchase ahead in bulk, we can cushion this world rise of price by controlling the price at which the refinery sells in the local market.
In exchange for that ability to keep down the price to the local consumer when the world prices are high, we have in turn to protect the refinery in time when world prices drop.

So, in that manner, using the refined sugar produced by our mill as a sort of stockpile, we are able then to produce a reasonably stable price to the local consumer, so that he will not be affected by the violent fluctuations of world prices as has happened in the past.
This is nothing new, because in countries like Australia, United King- dom and the States of America, there is this process of stabilising prices.

In the United Kingdom, the price to the consumer is kept as stable as possible around 45 cents per kati.
When the price goes down, there is a mechanism in the Board of Trade whereby the excess profits are retained; and when the price of sugar in the world goes up, that excess money, which was earned during periods of low prices, is returned or subsidised back to the industry, so that there is reasonable stability.
That was why, some time ago, in this House there was this question, how was it possible that the United Kingdom could subsidise the consumer when the world price of sugar went up, whereas we in Malaya had to be at the mercy of violent rise of world prices.

That is why this question of restricting or controlling the imports of sugar must be in the hands of Government; otherwise, we shall not be able to stablise the price of sugar to our consumers.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon: In view of what the Minister has said, will he give an assurance that his Ministry in conjunction with the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives will see to it that the growing of sugar cane is encouraged by the Government, so that we do not need to depend on foreign countries for our raw sugar?
Dr Lim Swee Aun : Mr Speaker, Sir, I can assure the Honourable Member, and also this House, that the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives and my Ministry are both working very closely to encourage the planting of sugar cane in this country.

But then, again , we have got to consider the possibility of the over-production of sugar in the whole world, in which case the return, due to a drop in price, to producers of sugar cane may not be that attractive.
Further, there is another aspect of it, and that is, even in those countries producing sugar, like Formosa, Japan and Australia, and exporting raw sugar, the price of sugar sold in their own country is higher than the export price of sugar.

This, Sir, is perhaps quite interesting, and with your permission, I would like to quote some retail price figures of sugar in certain countries : These figures are obtained from the Interna- tional Sugar Council Year Book published in June, 1964.
The retail prices of sugar are : Country Cents per kati Australia ... ... ... 42 cents United Kingdom ... ... 45 „ United States of America ... 57 „ ... ... ... 89 Japan India ... ... ... ... 47 ... ... ... 55 Taiwan 2401 16 OCTOBER 1964 2402 and quite a number of the above mentioned countries export sugar.

FINANCIAL GRANTS TO SCHOOLS (Free Lunch for under-privileged Children) 2.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the Minister for Welfare Services to state why Government is reluctant to give financial grants for the provision of free lunch in schools for under- privileged children and why Govern- ment should neglect such a worthy scheme.

(Pause).

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : I regret the Minister is not here to answer my question.

Mr Speaker : I will take Question No.

3 first.

NATIONAL LANGUAGE ALLOW- ANCE FOR WOMEN TEACHERS 3.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the Minister of Education to state whether the Government would give the same allowance of $15 for women teachers who pass the National language as is given to men teachers of similar qualification, in view of the recognition of equal pay for women.
The Minister of Education (Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib): Mr Speaker, Sir, allowances in respect of additional qualifications, including qualification in the National language (in certain cases only), are payable according to the incremental rate of the segment of the salary scale of the teachers concerned.

It would be presumptuous on my part to antici- pate what the outcome of the conver- sion exercise of the equal pay scheme would be.
I can, however, assure the Honourable Member that the prin- ciple of payment of such allowances on the basis of incremental rate will continue to be adhered to.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad for this assurance from the Government.
But then, is the Minister aware that whatever the outcome of the negotiations between the Government and the Teachers' Union, when this principle of equal pay for women is recognised, then surely the language allowance, if it is given to male teachers, will the Government give an assurance that it will also be given to female teachers?

Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib: Yes, Sir, I can give that assurance.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Thank you.


FINANCIAL GRANTS TO SCHOOLS (Free Lunch for under -privileged Children) Mr Speaker : Would any Minister like to take question No.

2?

2.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the Minister for Welfare Services to state why Government is reluctant to give financial grants for the provision of free lunch in schools for under- privileged children and why Govern- ment should neglect such a worthy scheme.
The Minister of Health (Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I have been given a paper here to answer the question on behalf of the absent Minister.

The Honourable Member is not correct in saying that the Government is reluctant to give financial grants for the provision of free lunch in schools for under- privileged children.

In fact, the Government did make available a sum of $30,000 earlier this year for this purpose.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon Mr Speaker, Sir, is the Acting Minister of Welfare Services aware of the fact that the Chairman of the Association for Children Welfare in this country, Enche' T. H. Tan, had to go all the way to Oxford to beg for a grant of $200,000 to subsidise this free lunch for school children?

He had to go to Oxford to get it.

I wonder if the Honourable Acting Minister .

.. .

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: I am quite aware of that, Sir, from reading the newspapers.
2403 16 OCTOBER 1964 2404 Dr Tan Chee Khoon: I did not hear the Minister, Mr Speaker, Sir.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: We welcome any voluntary organisation in helping the children.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, Sir, while the Minister has stated that we welcome any voluntary organisa- tion in helping the children, is he aware that this puny sum of $30,000, which he said was provided for, is totally inadequate, that even the $200,000 which has been asked from Oxford is also totally inadequate for this country?

Is he aware that we are reputed to have the second highest standard of living in Asia?
As such, it is a disgrace if any citizen of this country has to go outside of this country to beg for $200,000 to feed the school children.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Mr Speaker, Sir, if the Government were to give money to feed all school children, the Government will not be able to afford it.

So, any voluntary organisation that comes to the assis- tance of the Government in giving free lunches to children is welcomed.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe that the head of that voluntary organisation has appealed to the Government for $200,000 and whether the Acting Minister of Wel- fare Services is aware of it; and if so, why was it turned down by the Government?

Enche' Tan Siew Sin : Sir, I would like to remind the Honourable Mem- ber for Batu that even in the richest countries of the world, like the United States of America, there is no dearth of voluntary organisations doing heir share of welfare work.
I must also remind the Honourable Member that many things in this world are desir- able, but as far as the Government is concerned there must be an order of priorities, and clearly we must give priority to projects which are more desirable than others, but that does not mean that there is any stigma on Malaysia having a voluntary organi- sation going overseas to secure funds for a worthy project.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, Sir, am I to understand from the answer given by the Honourable Minister of Finance that this free lunch for the needy school children, I repeat, has a very low priority with the Government?

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the Honourable Member is trying to distort facts.

I did not mean to imply by my answer that this project has got no particular order of priority.

The fact remains that many desirable projects in this country remain to be done.
Dr Lim Chong Eu : Mr Speaker, Sir, in view of the fact that the Honour- able Minister of Finance, who had very kindly batted for the Minister of Welfare Services, mentioned that if the Government were to provide free meals for children the sum involved would be so large that the Govern- ment could not afford it, can we know exactly what this sum would be if the Government can afford it or has an estimate indeed been made that such a conclusion could be derived at?
Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am naturally not in a position to give the exact amount involved, because I really did not come here to answer this question.

But, as I have said before, the Honourable Member must bear in mind that there are many projects which are more desirable even from the Government's standpoint, and there must be an order of priorities.

Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Speaker, Sir, we thank the Honourable Minis- ter of Finance, because that answer obviously could have come best from him.
I was clear that no estimate was available and, therefore, the assumption that it could not be provided could not have been made satisfactorily in this House.

2405 16 OCTOBER 1964 2406 ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE (Motion) The Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice (Dato' Dr Ismail): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move : That at its rising today the House shall stand adjourned sine die.

The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan Siew Sin): Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Question put, and agreed to.


Resolved, That at its rising today the House shall stand adjourned sine die.

BILLS THE SUPPLEMENTARY SUPPLY (No.

2) BILL Committee The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee of Supply.
(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Heads S. 1, S. 2, S. 5, S. 7, S. 10, S. 70 and S. 67N The Assistant Minister of Youth, Culture and Sports (Engku Muhsein bin Abdul Kadir): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dengan izin, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya memohon kebenaran untok me- ngemukakan beberapa Kepala ini pada satu masa, is-itu Kepala S. 1 Parli- men $353,630; Kepala S. 2 Majlis Raja2 $6,403; Kepala S. 5 Surohan- jaya Perkhidmatan `Awam $49,678; Kepala S. 7 Perdana Menteri $312,566; Kepala S. 10 Muzium $65,160; Kepala S. 70 Kementerian Kebudayaan, Belia dan Sukan $57,654; dan Kepala S. 67N Pejabat Setia-usaha Persekutuan $163,268 menjadi sa-bahagian daripada Jadual.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, berbalek kapada Kepala S. 1 Parlimen, Per- untokan Tambahan di-kehendaki ia- lah oleh sebab beberapa perkara yang saya akan terangkan kapada Majlis mi.

Laing Perbelanjaan Berulang T iap2 Tahun (O.C.A.R.

): Pechahan Kepala 2 Pentadbiran Pejabat $249,900.


Per- untokan sa-banyak $184,460 telah di- luluskan dalam Estimates Tahun 1964 bagi menemui perbelanj aan api dan kuasa letrik, perbelanjaan runchit, talipon dan telegram, hetong panj ang perbelanj aan bulan bagi api dan kuasa letrik Bangunan Parlimen baharu ini is-lah $25,000 pada sa-bulan.
Berke- naan dengan ranchangan perbelanjaan runchit di-sebabkan oleh mengganti mentol lampu2 yang terbakar, meng- adakan alat2 tandas bag bangunan ini dan menara-nya, telah pun melebehi daripada peruntokan yang telah di- luluskan.

Perbelanj aan menghantar telegram dan bayaran berchakap talipon yang jauh juga telah ber- tambah kerana terpaksa menghantar telegram kapada semua Ahli2 Parli- men yang tinggal di-Sarawak dan Sabah.

Oleh yang demikian Tambahan Peruntokan $249,900 ada-lah di- kehendaki di-luluskan.
Pechahan Kepala 3 perbelanjaan berkait dengan Meshuarat Parlimen dan Meshuarat Jawatan-kuasa Parli- men sa-banyak $104,000; peruntokan $547,000 telah di-luluskan dalam Estimates tahun 1964.

Pada mula-nya di-jangkakan peruntokan ini ada-lah menchukupi sa-hingga akhir tahun ini Akan tetapi, oleh sebab Ahli2 Parli- men kita yang tinggal di-wilayah Borneo dan Singapura biasa-nya.
datang dengan menambang kapal terbang, dan di-dapati peruntokan ini; tidak menchukupi, oleh yang denii- kian Tambahan Peruntokan sa-banyak $100,000 ada-lah di-kehendaki, Pechahan Kepala 4, Pemberian kapada Persatuan Parlimen Common- wealth, peruntokan sa-banyak $23,600 ini is-lah berkenaan dengan pemberian tahunan kapada Persatuan Parlimen Commonwealth.
Pada Meshuarat Agong yang telah di-adakan di-Kuala Lumpur keputusan telah di-buat ia- itu chawangan Persatuan itu di- kehendaki menyempurnakan pem- berian tahunan it.u, lebeh lagi sa-banyak 20% daripada pemberian yang biasa.

Chawangan Persatuan Parlimen Semenanjong Tanah Melayu pada masa yang lalu telah memberi sa-banyak $18,599 pada sa-tahun, dan 20% daripada angka itu is-lah sa- banyak $3,720.

Oleh yang demikian 2407 16 OCTOBER 1964 2408 tambahan peruntokan $ 3,720 itu-lah yang di-kehendaki di-luluskan.
Perbelanjaan O.C.S.E ., Pechahan- Ke pal'a 21, Persid angan Parl a men Commonwealth tahun 1963, $10.00: Perbelanjaan $ 1,085 telah di-bayarkan pada chawangan Sarawak Persatuan Parlimen Commonwealth sa-bagai sa- bahagian daripada pemberian cha- wangan Semenanjong Tanah Melayu atas perbelanjaan untok wakil Per- satuan Parlimen Commonwealth yang telah membuat lawatan sa-belum persidangan ka-Sarawak di-dalam tahun 1963 .
Peruntokan ini telah dapat di-bayar daripada wang simpanan di-bawah Pechahan-Kepala 1, Gaji, dengan chara pindah peruntokan dan mengadakan satu Pechahan -Kepala baharu , oleh yang demikian perun- tokan "token vote" sa-banyak $10.00 sahaja di-kehendaki.

Kepala S. 2, Majl'is Raja2: Perun- tokan sa -banyak $6,400 di-pohonkan di-bawah Kepala S. 2, Majlis Raja2, Pechahan-Kepala I, Gaji, menjadi sa- bahagian daripada Jadual .
Peruntokan Tambahan ini ada-lah di -kehendaki untok membayar gaji dan elaun sara hidup kapada jawatan tambah semen- tara Penyimpan Mohor Besar Raja2 dari 1-5-1963 hingga 5-2-64.

Tam- bahan ini ada-lah terpaksa di-buat, oleh kerana peruntokan yang telah di-luluskan dalam Estimates tahun 1964 di-dapati tidak chukup.

Kepa^la S. 5, Surohanjaya Perkhid- matan `Awam: Peruntokan tambahan $49,678 di -pohonkan di-bawah Kepala S. 5.
Surohanjaya Perkhidmatan 'Awam ada-lah terbahagi kapada : (i) $16,700 untok gaji, (ii) $26,694 untok Perbelanjaan Tiap2 Tahun (O.C.A.R.

), dan (iii) $ 6,284 is-lah untok perbelanjaan O.C.S.E.
Perun- tokan tambahan ini di-kehendaki oleh sebab sa-buah pej abat baharu sa- bagai chawangan Surohanjaya Per- khidmatan `Awam di-tubohkan di- wilayah2 Borneo; peruntokan ada-lah di-kehendaki bagi membayar gaji dan lain2 perbelanjaan berulang tiap2 tahun, dan perbelanjaan khas bagi pej abat baharu itu yang akan menye- lenggarakan kerja2 chawangan Surohanjaya Perkhidmatan `Awam di- sabelah sana.
Kepala S. 7 Jabatan Perdana Menteri : Tambahan sa-banyak $312,566 yang di-pohonkan di-bawah Kepala S. 7 ini terbahagi kapada $46,869 untok gaji, $161 ,685 untok Perbelanjaan Tiap2 Tahun O.C.A.R., dan $104,012 is -lah untok Perbelanjaan Khas O.C.S.E.

Peruntokan Tambahan ini di-kehendaki is-lah oleh sebab beberapa, perkara.
Yang pertama -nya berkenaan dengan tambahan di-bawah Kepala- kechil 1 Gaji , itu is-lah di-sebabkan ada beberapa banyak tuntutan dari- pada pehak kaki -tangan Kerajaan Staff Side Whitley Council .

Oleh yang demikian Kerajaan telah memikirkan patut-lah di-adakan satu penyelidekan di-atas tangga gaji bagi semua pering- kat kaki-tangan.

Kerajaan telah pun menubohkan satu Jawatan-kuasa Khas Gaji untok menimbangkan dan, membuat shor atas dasar2 berkenaan dengan gaji dan juga sharat2 perkhidmatan.
Bagi me- nyelenggarakan Jawatan-kuasa Khas ini, satu bahagian baharu dalam Jabatan Perdana Menteri telah di- tubohkan dalam bulan May tahun mi.

Tambahan peruntokan ini ada-lah di- kehendaki bagi perbelanjaan memba- yar gaji, elaun ahli2 Jawatan -kuasa, pegawai2 dan kaki -tangan bagi baha- gian baharu itu.

Berkenaan dengan tambahan Per- untokan di-bawah Perbelan j aan Ber- ulang Tiap2 Tahun O.C.A.
R., maka sebab di-kehendaki is-lah satu Pe- chahan Kepala 2 Pentadbiran Pejabat $23,122 untok perbelanjaan bagi urusan pejabat bahagian Jawatan- kuasa Khas Gaji sa-banyak $14,722 dan Bahagian Peranchang Ekonomi $8,400 untok pentadbiran pejabat, saperti bayaran api , kuasa letrik, talipon , taligeram , perbelanjaan run- chit dan pakaian sa -ragam untok kaki2-tangan.

Yang kedua Pechahan Kepala 9 Hadiah2 Rasmi sa-banyak $26,353.
mi is-lah untok membeli hadiah2 rasmi yang di-kurniakan oleh Duli Yang Maha Mulia Seri Paduka Baginda Yang di-Pertuan Agong dan Raja Permaisuri Agong berkaitan dengan lawatan rasmi Seri Paduka 2409 16 OCTOBER 1964 2410 Baginda ka-negeri Thai dan Jepun dalam tahun mi.
Sa-lain daripada barang2 hadiah telah juga di -beli untok lawatan saya sendiri , untok lawatan Tunku Perdana Menteri sendiri ka- negeri.2 di-Asia Tenggara is-itu Kem- boja, Thailand dan Jepun untok mengambil bahagian dalam Persi- dangan Ketua2 Kerajaan di -negeri2 itu.

Yang Berhormat Timbalan Perdana telah juga membuat lawatan Menteri yang sa -umpama itu j uga.

Pechahan Kepala 13 Pengangkutan dale Perjalanan , $57,000.
Ini is-lab untok perbelanjaan2 pengangkutan dan perjalanan bagi bahagian Jawatan- kuasa Khas Gaji $32,000 dan Bahagian Peranchang Ekonomi $25,000.

Untok memenohi segala perbelanjaan ber- kenaan dengan pengangkutan dan perjalanan bagi ketua , bagi kedua2 bahagian itu.
Ahli Jawatan- kuasa Khas Gaji akan membuat beberapa lawatan dalam Semenanjong Tanah Melayu dan Singapura dan pegawai2 Bahagian Peranchang Ekonomi akan membuat lawatan di - seluroh Malaysia berkenaan Ranchangan Malaysia Yang Pertama bagi tahun 1966 sampai tahun 1970.

Pechahan Kepala 14A Sewa Ru- mah $21 ,000.


Denga.n tertuboh-nya bahagian Jawatan -kuasa Khas Gaji dalam bahagian Jabatan Perdana Menteri dan oleh sebab tidak chukup tempat lagi dalam bangunan Jabatan Perdana Menteri yang ada sekarang ini, maka terpaksa-lah di- sewakan satu tempat di-Ibu Kota untok di- jadikan pejabat bagi bahagian itu.

Peruntokan ini di-kehendaki bagi membayar sewa tersebut.
Pechahan Kepala 21 Upachara Menyambut Hari Keputeraan Duli Yang Maha Mulia Seri Paduka Ba- ginda Yang di-Pertuan Agong.

Hari Keputeraan Duli Yang Maha Mulia Seri Paduka Baginda Yang di-Pertuan Agong sa-patut-nya pada 3 haribulan June dalam tahun ini .

Peruntokan asal sa-banyak $ 11,500 telah di-dapati tidak menchukupi bagi mengadakan perayaan di-seluroh Malaysia pada hari itu .
Oleh yang demikian perun- tokan tambahan sa-banyak $42,200 ada-lah di-kehendaki dan daripada j umlah itu, Jabatan Perdana Menteri telah dapat mengadakan wang sim- panan sa-banyak $42,200 dan per- untokan tambahan sa-banyak $ l0 sahaja yang di-kehendaki dari Majlis mi.

Pechahan Kepala 22 Upachara Ulang Tahun Kemerdekaan.

Perayaan ulang tahun bagi menyambut hari Malaysia yang pertama telah di-raya- kan pada 31 haribulan August, 1964.

Perayaan telah di-adakan di-seluroh cherok dan rantau Malaysia.
Perun- tokan asal sa-banyak $27,000 telah di-dapati tidak menchukupi.

Oleh yang demikian peruntokan tambahan sa- banyak $23,000 di-kehendaki.

Sunggoh pun jumlah wang tam- bahan bagi Perbelanjaan Berulang Tiap2 Tahun yang di-pungut is-lah sa-banyak $161,685 tetapi daripada j umlah ini wang simpanan yang telah di-adakan oleh Jabatan Perdana Men- teri is-lah sa-banyak $42,200.

Jadi, wang peruntokan baharu yang di- pohon is-lah sa-banyak $119,485 sahaja.
Berkenaan dengan tambahan per- untokan di-bawah Perbelanjaan Khas O.C.S.E.
maka sebab-nya di- kehendaki tambahan itu is-lah sa- bagai berikut : Pechahan Kepala 43 Perkakas dan Kelengkapan Pejabat $44,647 sa- perti pechahan di-bawah : (a) Bahagian Jawatan-kuasa Khas Gaji ... ... ... ... $14,120 7,264 (b) Bahagian Peranchang Economi Perisekan (Research (c) Bahagian Division) ... ... ... dan 3,200 (d) Pejabat2 Kerajaan Pusat di- Kuching dan di-Jesselton ... 20,063 Jumlah ... $44,647 Pechahan Kepala 62 Perbelanjaan Membuat Bilek2 dan Memasang Alat2 Pendingin $19,500.
Ini is-lah untok menyechakan beberapa bilek dan j uga mengadakan alat2 pendingin dalam pejabat bahagian Jawatan- kuasa Khas Gaji.

Pechahan Kepala 64 Bayaran kapada benaan makam Almarhum 2411 16 OCTOBER 1964 2412 Duli Yang Maha Mulia Seri Paduka Baginda Yang di-Pertuan Agong Per- tama sa-banyak $12,285.
Sunggoh pun wang tambahan bagi perbelanjaan khas yang di-pohonkan is-lah sa-banyak $104,012 tetapi dari- pada jumlah ini wang simpanan saving yang telah di-adakan oleh Jabatan Perdana Menteri is-lah sa- banyak $1,200.

Oleh yang demikian wang peruntokan baharu yang di- pohon is-lah sa-banyak $102,812 sahaja.

Kepala S. 10 Muzium.

Peruntokan sa-banyak $65,160 bagi muzium itu terbahagi kapada dua bahagian.

Satu bagi membayar api, kuasa letrik dan ayer sa-banyak $58,200.
Yang kedua menchuchi Muzium Negara $6,960.

Jumlah $65,160.

Bagi api dan ayer chuma $6,000 sahaja telah di-untokan bagi Muzium Negara dan Muzium Taiping di-Perak, kerana di-masa peruntokan sa-banyak $6,000 itu di- masokkan perbelanjaan sa-benar-nya belum di-ketahui lagi.

Menurut pengalaman semenjak muzium, itu di-buka, perbelanjaan yang di-kehendaki is-lah sa-banyak $5,200 bagi tiap2 bulan.

Oleh yang demikian, maka ini-lah peruntokan sa-banyak $58,200 di-kehendaki sa-bagai tam- bahan.
Semenjak Muzium Negara ini di-buka telah di-dapati lebeh kurang antara 1,500 hingga 2,000 orang telah datang melawat muzium itu pada tiap2 hari.

Oleh yang demikian, sangat-lah mustahak yang muzium itu di-chuchi lebeh berseh lagi dan sa- kurang2-nya satu minggu sa-kali, maka perbelanjaan yang di-kehendaki untok menjalankan pekerjaan itu is-lab $580.00 satu bulan, dengan yang demikian peruntokan tambahan sa- banyak $6,960 itu ada-lah di- kehendaki.

Kepala S. 70 Kementerian Kebu- dayaan, Belia dan Sukan.
Peruntokan Kementerian Kebudayaan, Belia dan Sukan sa-banyak $57,564.

Dalam Jadual ini ada-lah terbahagi kapada dua bahagian.

Yang pertama is-lah sa-banyak $12,564 di-bawah O.C.A.R.

atau Laing Perbelanjaan, Berulang Tiap2 Tahun, dan yang kedua sa-banyak $45.00 di- bawah O.C.S.E.

Peruntokan sa-banyak $12,564 itu ada-lah perlu untok menyewa pejabat bagi Kementerian di-Tengkatan Dua Bangunan Pook Chuen, Jalan Haji Hussin, Kuala Lumpur.
Sewa-nya sa-banyak $2,513 sa-bulan, is-itu di-hetong mengikut 60 sen pada satu kaki persegi.

Peruntokan ini ada-lah bagi bulan Ogos sa-hingga bulan Disember tahun 1964.
Semenjak Kementerian ini di-tubohkan pada 16 haribulan Mei, 1964 sa-hingga 31 haribulan Ogos is-itu memakan masa 32 bulan Kementerian ini telah menompang di-Jabatan Perdana Men- ten, tetapi oleh kerana di-Jabatan Perdana Menteri ini sendiri tidak lagi mempunyai bilek2, dalam tempoh 3 i bulan itu sogala kerja2 hanya di-buat dalam satu bilek di-mana beberapa orang anggota dudok berkumpul dan susah sangat untok menjalankan kerja2, maka terpaksa-lah di-chari pejabat yang khas.
Usaha2 telah di- jalankan untok mendapat tempat di- bangunan2 yang di-punyai oleh Kerajaan, tetapi malang-nya dalam tempoh yang tersebut itu tidak di- dapati bangunan2 Kerajaan.
Perhu- bongan telah di-buat dengan Kemen- terian Kerja Raya, Pos dan Talikom dalam perkara menchari tempat2 ini dan sa-telah beberapa tempat di-seli- deki termasok tempat2 dalam Ibu Kota sendiri, maka di-dapati tempat yang ada sekarang ini-lah yang sesuai, murah dan chukup untok Kementerian ini, walau pun sewa-nya 60 sen pada satu kaki, tetapi jika di-bandingkan dengan beberapa tempat dalam Ibu Kota yang kami telah chuba siasat kebanyakan sewa2-nya is-lah antara 70-75 sen ka-atas.
Sebab itu-lah sa- telah di-selideki dan mendapat so- kongan dari Kementerian Kerja Raya yang menyiasat perkara ini kami telah menyewa tempat yang ada inl.

Sa-lain daripada itu pula tempat yang ada ini mempunyai kesenangan2 dalam per- kara kedatangan orange tidak berapa sebok dan tempat simpan motoka.r chukup besar untok pekerja2 dan juga orange yang datang kerana pekerjaan berbanding dengan tempat2 dalam Ibu Kota sendiri yang kesusahan meletak- kan kenderaan2 itu sangat besar sa- kali.
2413 16 OCTOBER 1964 2414 Berthabit dengan sewa ini juga Yang Berhormat dari Batu dalam uchapan dasar-nya kelmarin mengata- kan tidak puas hati-nya kenapa sewa bagini tinggi dan berbagai hujah lagi.
Jadi, dalam perkara ini suka-lah saya menegaskan tindakan yang kami buat ini is-lah sa-telah menyiasat sa-lama 34 bulan lebeh, dan jika pun hendak kami sewa bagaimana kata beliau tadi menchari flat atau rumah2 kedai, maka saya perchaya bagaimana Ahli Yang Berhormat itu sendiri sedar bahawa Kementerian ini bukan-lah satu gulongan keluarga, oleh kerana bagaimana kata beliau boleh di-sewa sa-buah rumah flat dengan $500.00 saya perchaya itu hanya chukup untok satu keluarga atau satu family, tetapi sa-buah Kementerian yang meliputi seluroh Malaysia tentu-lah lebeh ramai daripada satu keluarga dan dengan hetong panjang saya rasa sewa yang sa-banyak ini tidak-lah melam- paui Batas.
Perbelanjaan sa-banyak $5,000 kerana partition itu pun is-lah sa- telah pehak Kementerian ini berkira dengan Jabatan Kerj a Raya.

Mengikut taksir Jabatan Kerja Raya partition yang di-buat mengikut taksir-nya ia- lah sa-banyak $8,000, tetapi Alhamdu- lillah kami telah dapat dengan chara berjimat merendahkan perbelanjaan tadi daripada $8,000 menjadi $5,000 dan itu-lah yang di-kehendaki sa- banyak $5,000.
Partition ini is-lah bukan untok bilek2 kechil tetapi satu lapisan (floor) bangunan itu, bukan-lah untok sa-bahagian kechil daripada floor itu sahaja.

Akhir-nya sa-kali kapada Kepala S. 67N Pejabat Setia-usaha Perseku- tuan.

Wang sa-banyak $163,268 yang di-pohon di-bawah Kepala 67N ini is-lah yang pertama $160,768 untok gaji dan yang kedua $2,500 untok Pebelanjaan Khas (O.C.S.E.).

Perunto- kan d alam tambahan ini di-kehendaki oleh sebab satu Pechahan Kepala- kechil $160,768.
Pada masa yang lalu Pejabat2 Setia-usaha di-Kuching dan Pejabat Timbalan Setia-usaha Perse- kutuan di-Jesselton telah di-dapati tidak berapa terator oleh sebab kekurangan kaki-tangan.

Oleh yang demikian, kedua2 pejabat telah di- susun sa-mula dengan tujuan melichin- kan segala urusan2 Kerajaan.

Susunan sa-mula itu a.da-lah mengandongi juga Pejabat Perjawatan Daerah Kuching dan juga di-Jesselton, masing2 di- bawah kelolaan Setia-usaha dan Tim- balan Setia-usaha Persekutuan.
Dalam susunan sa-mula ini ada beberapa banyak jawatan2 baharu telah di-ada- kan sa-lain daripada j awatan yang dahulu di-tunjokkan di-bawah S. 7 Perdana Menteri, Butiran 100-127 dalam Estimates, 1964 yang telah di- pindahkan kapada S. 67N ini.

Oleh sebab2 yang saya terangkan tadi maka tambahan peruntokan sa-banyak $160,768 ada-lah di-kehendaki bagi menemui perbelanjaan berkenaan dengan gaji dan alat2 bagi pegawai dan kaki2-tangan.

Perbelanjaan Khas (O.C.S.E.)

Pechahan-kepala 2 Peti Besi $2,500.


Pejabat Timbalan Setia- usaha Persekutuan di-Jesselton tidak ada mempunyai peti besi untok me- nyimpan kertas rahsia Kerajaan.

Oleh yang demikian tambahan peruntokan sa-banyak $2,500 itu ada-lah musta- hak untok membeli sa-buah peti besi.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya kemuka- kan Kepala2 yang saya sebutkan tadi untok di-jadikan sa-bahagian daripada Jadual.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Chairman, Sir, since the Acting Prime Minister shall I call him that has been jump- ing from one Head to the other, it makes it very difficult for us to follow.

I shall go by Command Paper No.

29 of 1964 and mention the page and the Head and I hope it will be easier to follow, because he has been mentioning the original estimates and jumping from one vote to another.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I come to Head S. 1 .

.

.

.

.

Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Chairman, Sir, on a point of clarification.
Are we discussing Head S. 1, or are we going to follow all the arguments that have been brought up by the Honourable Minister?

Mr Chairman: All the Heads.

(Laughter).


Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Chairman, Sir, the Acting Prime Minister has jumped from so many Heads that it makes it very difficult for us on this 2415 16 OCTOBER 1964 2416 side of the House to follow, but, never- theless, I shall do my best to catch up with his power of speech, which pro- bably has beaten the speed established by Bob Hayes of 9.9 seconds for the 100 metres at the Olympics.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I come to Head S. 1 -it says here Pechahan Kepala Tiga, $100,000 is required.
Mr Chair- man, Sir, I have already congratulated the Government, which, I think, is a very essential expenditure, and evi- dence of it is, as I pointed out yester- day, a speech which I made two days ago was presented to me for correction here and I pointed it out to the Honour- able the Prime Minister that I was correcting the speech when he was speaking; that shows that we on our side of the House are responsible to do our homework as speedily as possible.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I only wish to make a further comment.

I hope the Official Minutes of the Dewan Ra`ayat will be printed as early as possible now that we have increased the staff in this direction.

I remember about a few days ago receiving the Minutes of the Dewan Ra`ayat about one year old.

That, I think, should not happen now that we have an increased corps of Parliamen- tary Reporters.
I hope that the Printing Department also will be urged to do the job as speedily as possible, because not only we on this side of the House wish to read the proceedings of the Dewan Ra`ayat but, I believe, the school-children, the reporters and thou- sands outside this House would like to buy copies of the Minutes of the Dewan Ra`ayat, to see whether the Parliamentarians are doing their work well or, perhaps, the Ministers are doing their work well.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I come to Head S. 7, page 7 of Command Paper No.

29 of 1964, Pechahan Kepala 1.

Here we are asked to provide for additional expenses to meet the expenditure under personal emoluments, other recurrent charges and special expenditure for the new division of the Special Committee on Salaries.
Sir, several committees have been established by the Govern- ment : one was announced about a year ago and the names of those in the com- mittee has just been announced a few days ago, which shows the speed at which the Government works.

It made an announcement of the establishment of a Commission of Inquiry into Salaries in the Civil Service a year ago and it was only a few days ago that the names of some of the members was announced.
Then, of course, there are other committees that had been estab- lished to look into the question of pensions of daily-rated hospital assis- tants.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to draw the attention of the Acting Prime Minister .

.

.

.

.

Engku Muhsein bin Abdul Nadir: Saya tidak menjadi Pemangku Perdana Menteri.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, ;Sir, if I have given offence, I wish to withdraw it; because he introduced the estimates on behalf of the Prime Minister, I have addressed him as Acting Prime Minister, and I shall not do so in future.

Sir, I only wish to draw his attention to the fact that civil ser- vants are still very disgruntled.
Though they are very loyal and have declared their loyalty in no uncertain terms to the Government on many occasions, I would urge the Government to con- sider their grievances as expeditiously as possible, and not take their declara- tion of loyalty too much for granted.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I now come to page 8 of Command Paper No.

29 of 1964.
29 of 1964.

On this page, in respect of Head 7, paragraph 11, Pechahan Kepala 22, a sum of $23,000 is asked for to meet expenses in connection with the cele- bration of Malaysia, vide item (ii).

May I ask the Assistant Minister for Youth, Culture and Sports, what was the original estimate?

The Minister of Finance stated yesterday that the House should congratulate the Government for being careful in the preparation of the Estimates and hence the necessity of supplementary estimates.
I think this is one where the converse is true : per- haps, there is a miscalculation; perhaps, somebody has bungled the job; and hence this request for an additional sum of $21000.

I hope the Assistant Minister will enlighten the House as to what was the original sum voted by Parliament.

2417 16 OCTOBER 1964 2418 Mr Speaker, Sir, now I wish to com- ment on Head S .

67N, page 34, " Office of Federal Secretary".

Sir, I do not come from Sabah or Sarawak .

I am not against this expenditure .
But, Mr Speaker, Sir, the words "Federal Secretary" and "Deputy Federal Secre- tary" might have a different connota- tion to the people of Sabah and Sara- if you have a wak, particularly Malaysian Department-I do not know whether it still exists in the Prime if you have a Minister 's portfolio : Malaysian Department and, then, you have "Federal Secretary " and "Deputy Federal Secretary" both in Sabah and Sarawak, then it might give offence to the people in Sabah and Sarawak to the extent that we are colonising them.
The British Raj at one time had a Colonial Secretary, now there is a Commonwealth Secretary , and we in those colonial days did object to this colonial yoke.

Mr Speaker , Sir, as I said , I am not against this expenditure .
I only want to draw the attention of this House and the Government that such terms like, "Malaysian Department", "Federal Secretary ", and "Deputy Federal Secre- tary " in Sabah and Sarawak may well cause offence to Parliamentarians in Sabah and Sarawak and to the inhabi- tants of Sabah and Sarawak .

As such, perhaps , the Government may consider it necessary to change such terminolo- gies so as not to give offence to the people in the Bornean States.
Mr Speaker, Sir, finally , may I come to page 36 , Head S. 70.

The Honour- able Assistant Minister of Youth, Culture and Sports has given us detailed expenditure , saying that the rent has gone up to 60 cents per square foot if I have heard him correctly.

I question this in my original speech saying that it was to me high expendi- ture .

He has now assured this House that he has made very careful investi- gations .
I am very glad that the Ministry has made very careful investi- gations before embarking on such a venture.

But nevertheless , I should have thought that if tenders were called, perhaps , we might get some office pre- mises at 50 cents per square foot much nearer the town.

That is the point I wish to make.

At that time, from the notes provided, we did not know there were careful investigations and there was this consultation with the Public Works Department.
Now that we are told that there had been investigations and consultation with the P.W.D., I hope that in future, if the Government should want to go into the renting of premises for new Ministries, for exten- sion of Ministries, it should try to call for tenders, because there are lots of new buildings coming up, and I do know there are lots of vacant office spaces near the centre of the town and even, perhaps, much cheaper.
Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad (Muar Utara): Tuan Pengerusi, di-dalam muka 5 Head 1 dalam Pechahan Kepala 2, Pentadbiran Pej abat is-lah dalam urusan Parlimen.

Apa yang saya hen- dak bangkitkan is-itu saya mengharap- kan supaya pejabat ini dapat memikir- kan sa-mula is-itu memberi beg kapada Ahli2 Meshuarat Parlimen.

Beg yang ada sekarang ini, Tuan Pengerusi, saya nampak kurang baik, dan pula Ahli2 Meshuarat kena pelok dan kelek ma- cham budak2 sekolah tahun 1920 dahulu.
Engku Muhsein bin Abdul Kadir: Kita ini dalam perkara gaji dan lain2, bukan ada kena-mengena dengan beg.

Mr Chairman : Ya, kita sekarang dalam dasar perkhidmatan sahaja yang ada peruntokan wang itu, tidak ada kena-mengena dengan beg.

Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Tuan Pengerusi, walau pun bagitu saya mengharapkan perhatian supaya di- ganti sa-buah beg yang sesuai dan modern yang boleh di-bimbit atau di-kunchi bagaimana telah di-berikan oleh negeri2 lain saperti Negeri Kedah, Pulau Pinang dan Perak kapada.
Ahli2 Meshuarat Negeri.
Tambahan pula saya hendak kemukakan, Tuan Penge- rusi, kapada Ahli2 Meshuarat ini, Yang Berhormat Enche' Othman bin Abdullah dari Perlis Utara, dia ini rajin membawa surat2 dalam beg-nya itu, jadi oleh sebab banyak surat2 penoh dan terburai, Tuan Pengerusi, (Ketawa) fasal-nya pin-nya itu kechil sangat, tidak boleh di-kunchi, jadi bagi menyesuaikan beg itu kapada Ahli2 2419 16 OCTOBER 1964 2420 Meshuarat Parlimen Malaysia, adakan- lah satu beg yang sempurna dan modern, terima kaseh, Tuan Pengerusi.
Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam (Ipoh): Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise to speak on Head S. 5, Public Services Commission.

Here, I note that the provision is required to meet expenditure in respect of the personal emoluments and other charges with regard to the Public Services Commission in the States of Borneo and otherwise.
Sir, I only rise to say this : that I hope that the Services Commission will choose per- sons to serve on public bodies in whom the Cabinet itself will have confidence, because otherwise this additional vote will be money wasted.

You may ask why do I make this comment, and why do I give this warning.

It is for very good reasons, and I will give an exam- ple.
In this morning's newspaper, we read a statement by the Honourable Minister of Home Affairs in reply yesterday to the observations I made in which he passed a very uncalled-for criticism on magistrates and judges in this country.

I had the unfortunate, or fortunate, experience of visiting the Courts this morning in the course of my business, and several persons were up in arms saying, "Are the magistrates and judges in this country foals?
Are we stupid idiots that the Minister of this realm says that we allow lawyers to bully witnesses in Courts?"
Any magistrate or any judge who allows any lawyer to bully a witness is a stupid magistrate and a stupid judge and, therefore, it is necessary that the Public Services Commission should appoint persons in whom the Govern- ment itself can have confidence, because otherwise a Minister of this country can stand up and say that judges and magis- trates allow lawyers to bully witnesses that is a statement of fact as it appears in the Straits Times and if that is not so, I hope it will be denied today.
It is certainly rubbing up the backs of magistrates and judges in this country to say that they are so stupid as to allow people to bully witnesses in Courts, because nowhere in any Court in the world where democracy is practised are persons bullied.

They are interro- gated, they are cross-examined, vigo- rously, so that the truth must come out, but to express so much no confidence in the judiciary is a shame on this Government and the people of this country.
I realise that the Honour- able Minister is not a member of the legal profession and he has no know- ledge of how law courts work, but having no such knowledge, he should be careful of what he says in connection with the judiciary, because if confi- dence in the judiciary is lost, the whole work of the Public Services Com- mission and other branches of the Public Services can also be lost.
The people think that when they go to Court, they can be bullied and that the magistrates will just sit back, the judges will sit back, and let them be bullied; and then they say, "Two hoots to our courts of justice" that is not what we want.
I do not know whether the Honourable Minister meant to say that judges and magistrates are so stupid; but if he did say so, he should with- draw it and publicly apologise in this House to the judiciary of this country, because if we, on our part as lawyers, are allowed to bully them, so much the better for us.

However, I am sure no magistrate in this country, and no judge in this country, has ever allowed any counsel or any prosecutor to bully witnesses in this country.
For that reason, under this vote, I say that the Public Services Commission must be very careful how they choose people.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Chairman, Sir, may I follow what the Honourable Member for Ipoh has stated?

Unfortu- nately, I think the newspaper in this country today carried a caption saying, "Two M.Ps bully public servants."

It mentioned the Member for Ipoh and, unfortunately, I was coupled with that in connection with my visit to Batu Gajah.

It implied that I bullied the Camp Commandant.


For the same reason as the Member for Ipoh has mentioned .. .

.

.

.

.

Engku Muhsein bin Abdul Kadir: Apa kena-mengena dengan gaji itu?

Mr Chairman : Dia menyentoh sadikit apa yang telah di-binchangkan mi.

2421 16 OCTOBER 1964 2422 Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, I am talking of the Public Services Com- mission.
I am going to say that the Public Services Commission, in its wisdom, naturally appoints people of right calibre for the right job; and if the Minister says in this House that any public officer is being bullied by me and I do not see how can I ever bully any civil servant then I think it is wrong on the part of the Minister to say that, or it is wrong on the part of the Public Services Commission to appoint people of wrong calibre to be ever bullied by either the Member for Ipoh or by me.
I can assure this House that in regard to that visit, I did not even attempt to bully, let alone bully, the Camp Commandant; I am glad to state in this House that he was very co-operative and we parted as best of friends.

How on earth could the Honourable Minister of Home Affairs castigate me for snooping around !

Again, if the Camp Commandant was not a right person appointed by the Public Services Commission, then he should not have been appointed to have allowed me to snoop around.
To that extent, Sir, I think that was an un- justifiable slur either on the civil servant concerned or on the work of the Public Services Commission.

Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to rise to raise a few points.

I am afraid that I have got a little lost with the long explanatory notes by the Honourable Assistant Minister, but I wish to draw the atten- tion of the House, in accordance with the order in Command Paper No.
29, first to page 6, particularly to para- graph 5 in respect of sub-head 3 with regard to Parliament itself.
Here is an instance where in spite of what I did comment yesterday about the necessity of the curtailing of expendi- ture-on the other hand, I did also suggest that fair expenses were neces- sary to provide for better efficiency one would be happy to see even the Government spending more and we hope that the provision of $100,000 to meet additional expenses in con- nection with the meetings of Parlia- ment, and so on, will really be adequate to meet the items that were suggested, for example,.
by the Member for Batu, i.e., that the reports on the proceedings of this House should be brought up-to- date and that adequate staff should be provided for this purpose.

Again, the library facilities in this House, for example, could be increased.

And the staff, who have given very efficient and loyal service to this House, should be well taken care of and charges for overtime should be taken care of.
Sir, I mention this in particular because with the proclamation of the Emer- gency and the passing of the Essential Regulations Act, the House and this country must realise that democracy in this country will be kept alive in this House and therefore any provision to keep the efficiency of Parliament effective will meet with our approval, and I do hope that this kind of pro- visions will be able to provide all the amenities whereby members of this House can function to the full and effectively.
I would ask the Honourable Minister to take into consideration matters such as providing facilities for members of this House to go across to Sabah and Sarawak whereby they can see for themselves the situation in Sabah and Sarawak, so that they can have a better picture to present in this House of Malaysia as a whole and not just on the Federation of Malaya.

Sir, I would like next to draw the attention of the House to page 10, paragraph 18.
The Honourable Mem- ber for Batu when he touched on this subject was, I think, a little bit too ominous.

I, on my part, when I look at it would like first to ask the Minister concerned how long in fact the late Senator Data' Abang Haji Mustapha bin Dato' Hakim Haji Moasili actually served as a Federal Minister.
To my knowledge, this must be the absolute minimum in the provision for services in that capacity and if this is the absolute minimum of what the Honour- able Member for Batu had referred to as a "rate" I would certainly, on behalf of the whole country, do wish the present Ministers of Government long life in order to save expenses; but I would like to bring this matter up and ask for clarification on that point.
2423 16 OCTOBER 1964 2424 Sir, another question that I would like to ask, and if I am wrong in this I wish to be corrected, is whether paragraph 27 on page 13 is to be dis- cussed now or not.

Mr Chairman: No, later.

Dr Lim Chong Eu : Sorry, under the circumstances I would bring up these two points now.

Enche' Abdul Razak bin Haji Hussin (Lipis): Tuan Pengerusi, saya hendak menyentoh sadikit sahaja is-itu Ke- pala I, Pechahan Kepala 2 dan 3.
Saya minta ma`af kapada Yang Ber- hormat Menteri, kalau ini satu per- kara yang tidak menyenangkan, tetapi dengan ikhlas.
Saya minta di-tambah alat pendengar, atau alat penterjemah di-bahagian pemerhati sana, kerana kita tahu rungutan dan aduan dari- pada ahli2 yang memerhati, melihat sidang ini tidak dapat penjelasan yang tepat dan jelas daripada uchapan2 di-slni, kerana kedudokan tempat2 pemerhatian itu tinggi, dengan sebab itu, kita nampak kadang2 pemerhati kita dudok, kepala-nya kapada papan di-bahagian sana sa-kali pandang, kita nampak pemerhati kita itu tidak menghormati Dewan ini, tetapi yang sa-benar-nya dengan mendekatkan pada papan itu, maka baharu-lah suara Ahli2 Dewan ini dapat di- dengar dengan baik.
Saya minta Yang Berhormat Menteri yang ber- kenaan boleh membuat, dan saya harap, dapat kemudahan ini dalam sidang yang akan datang.

Yang kedua, saya berjangkit pada Kepala 7, Pechahan 58.

Dewan ini maseh ingat dalam Budget tahun yang lepas is-itu tahun 1963, saga bangkitkan tentang masaalah2 sagu hati kapada Ahli2 Dewan yang telah meninggal.
Saya berasa shukor yang pemberian sagu hati ini telah pun di-adakan pada Allah-yarham Men- teri2 kita dan pada Kepala 58 ini ada di-kaitkan dengan bantuan sagu hati kapada keluarga Allah-yarham Dato' Abang Haji Mustapha bin Dato' Hakim Haji Moasili.

Saya menyokong peruntokan ini di-beri dan ada pehak Pembangkang tadi menyebutkan ia- itu berdo`a supaya Menteri2 kita panjang umor.
Saya juga berdo`a supaya semua Ahli2 Dewan ini pan- jang umor, termasok Ahli dari Tan- jong itu, tetapi masaalah mati, yang kita mesti tundok kapada Tuhan : (1) Janji pertemuan (2) Percheraian (3) Tanah kubor (4) Rezki, dan yang akhir sa-kali (5) Maut.

Jadi sekarang ini, Tuan Pengerusi, saya minta ulang rayuan saya ber- kenaan dengan sagu hati kapada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dalam Dewan ini supaya di-pertimbangkan.
Saya juga mendapat jaminan oleh Yang Ter- amat Mulia Tunku sendiri bahawa Kerajaan akan menimbangkan pada masa akan datang, tetapi saya maseh menunggu, kerana Dewan ini tahu ada empat lima orang Ahli2 Yang Berhormat yang telah meninggal ter- lebeh dahulu daripada kita Tuhan lebeh mengasehi mereka daripada kita sakalian, is-itu Allah-yarham Enche' Mohamed Sulong bin Moha- med Ali, Allah-yarham Enche' Moha- med Noordin bin Mastan, Allah- yarham Enche' Zulkiflee dan men- diang sahabat kita Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Sabah.
Jadi, kalau dapat Yang Berhormat Menteri ini mengingatkan balek persetujuan janji Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Menteri supaya dapat di-masokkan pada masa akan datang tentang masa- alah sagu hati Ahli Yang Berhormat yang telah meninggal dunia itu pada masa akan datang.

Kita harus faham bahawa tiap2 yang hidup akan mati, dan tiap2 yang tinggal akan meninggal.
Sa-bagai jasa dan khidmat mereka itu kapada Negara, tidak ada salah dengan pera- saan yang penoh tanggong-jawab mengenangkan kesediaan khidmat mereka itu, maka kita memberikan sagu hati.
Saya maseh ingat Yang Berhormat Menteri yang berkenaan pernah menyatakan yang perkara ini akan di-timbangkan, dan hingga hari ini perkara itu saya menunggu tidak juga tiba, dan saya bangkitkan sa-kali lagi supaya meminta pertimbangan Yang Berhormat Menteri yang ber- kenaan, kalau sa-kira-nya Yang Ter- amat Mulia Tunku sendiri tidak ada 2425 16 OCTOBER 1964 2426 di-Dewan ini, saya menyampaikan rasa terima kaseh Menteri yang me- wakili supaya menyampaikan-nya.

Terima kaseh tuan.
Engku Muhsein bin Abdul Kadir: Tuan Pengerusi, berhubong dengan pandangan yang di-buat oleh Yang Berhorrnat dari Batu dalam perkara kelambatan report (minutes Dewan Ra`ayat ini) maka sa-bagaimana yang telah di-uchapkan dalam jawapan Yang Teramat Mulia Perdana Menteri sa-malam pada beliau, tindakan2 untok menambah ahli2 pengambil uchapan dan lain2 telah di-buat dan sa-memang-lah dari masa ka-masa hendak di-usahakan lagi, tetapi saya di-beritahu oleh kerana pertama sa- kali Jabatan Chetak terlampau banyak mempunyai kerja2 kadang2 boleh.
jadi kelambatan sadikit.

Walau macham mana pun perkara ini memang-lah sama2 di-ambil tanggong-jawab dan di-harap pada masa akan datang dapat di-perchepatkan lagi.

Dalam perkara S. 7 berkenaan dengan Jawatan-kuasa Khas Gaji.

Yang sa-benar-nya pehak Jabatan Perdana Menteri menghada.pi kesulitan untok mendapatkan perkhidmatan Pengerusi pada Surohanjaya ini dan sebab itu-lah kelambatan mengumum- kan nama2-nya.
Dalam perkara Federal Secretary di-Sarawak, oleh kerana jauh-nya perhubongan wilayah2 Sabah dan Sarawak dengan Kuala Lumpur, itu- lah sebab-nya mustahak di-adakan pejabat di-sana dan ini bukan-lah satu perkara yang boleh mengelirukan sa-olah2 dengan ada-nya pejabat itu menyebabkan orange di-sana merasa yang mereka itu di-jajah.

Saya nam- pak ahli2 dari Sabah dan Sarawak pun tiada memberi pandangan dalam perkara itu.
Berkenaan dengan pandangan Yang Berhormat dari Taiping, per- tama sa-^kali beliau menyokong be-- lanja tambahan yang menasabah, maka itu sangat-lah di-hargai dan saya tegaskan-lah semua perbelanjaan yang di-buat ini is-lah perbelanjaan yang menasabah dan mustahak.

Dalam perkara berapa lama tem- poh perkhidmatan Allah-yarham Dato' Abang Haji Mustapha dalam Dewan Negara is-lah beliau telah berkhidmat sa-lepas daripada penu- bohan Malaysia dan tidak sampai sa-tahun.
Walau macham mana pun dasar pemberian itu ada-lah sa-bagai penghormatan kapada sa-orang Ahli Parlimen Dewan Ra`ayat dan Dewan Negara dan bukan-lah soal berkhid- mat sa-tahun dua tahun atau tiga tahun.

Pandangan Yang Berhormat dari Lipis berkenaan dengan alat pen- dengar itu di-ambil perhatian dan akan di-edarkan kapada yang ber- kenaan.

Dalam perkara sagu hati ahli2 yang mati itu juga sedang dalam perhatian.

Dr Lim Chong Eu: May I ask for clarification?


I did ask for the period of time that the late Senator served as a Federal Minister without Port- folio, Sir, because that has got some direct connection with what was brought up by the speaker before, in that once you take into considera- tion service as Senator then we have to take into consideration ex-gratia payment for service as Senators and as Members of this House and so on, and so forth.
Engku Muhsein bin Abdul Kadir: Dato' Abang Haji Mustapha served for two weeks.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sums of $353,630 for Head 5.

1, $6,403 for Head S. 2, $49,678 for Head S. 5, $312,566 for Head S. 7, $65,160 for Head S. 10, $57,564 for Head S. 70, and $163,268 for Head S. 67N ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head S. 12 The Assistant Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Enche ' Sulaiman bin Bulon): Tuan Pengerusi, Kementerian saya Kementerian Pertanian dan Sharikat Bekerjasama.
Saya memohon izin mengemukakan satu peruntokan tambahan sa-banyak $71,600 di- bawah Kepala S. 12.

Di-dalam Surat Titah 29 telah di-nyatakan dan suka-lah saya mem- beritahu Dewan ini bahawa satu 2427 16 OCTOBER 1964 2428 ranchangan perintis (pilot scheme) yang di-Johor telah pun di-jalankan dan tahun 1964 ini satu lagi telah di-jalankan juga di-Perak di-Bagan Datoh dan di-Kelantan.

Oleh yang demikian itu ini-lah di-pohonkan tam- bahan kerana.
menyara gaji pekerja2 dan kaki-tangan, sewa pejabat dan j uga membeli alat pengangkutan dan sa-bagai-nya, is-itu di-bawah Pe- chahan Kepala 1 Gaji , Pechahan Pechahan Kepala Pechahan Kepala 29 Pengangkutan.

Jadi Kepala dengan demikian itu-lah di-pohonkan supaya Dewan ini meluluskan per- untokan yang sa-banyak itu.
27 Pentadbiran , 28 Sewa dan Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Chairman, Sir, I notice from Command Paper 29 of 1964 under Head S. 12 that in 1963 a pilot scheme was launched in Johore and two new schemes one in the East Coast and one in Perak have been launched in 1964.

Mr Chairman, Sir, why there is no such pilot scheme for Selangor?
Since I come from Selangor, I believe there are 10,000 acres of coconut land planted with coconut in Selangor, I should be grateful if the Honourable the Assis- tant Minister of Agriculture will enlighten this House why Selangor has been neglected.

Enche' Sulaiman bin Bulon : Kemen- terian ini .

.

Mr Chairman : Nanti dahulu saya tengok kalau ada orang yang hendak berchakap.

Nampak-nya tidak ada, jemput-lah.

Enche' Sulaiman bin Bulon: .

.


akan chuba meluaskan ranchangan2 ini, tetapi ada-lah mengikut keadaan tempat itu dan saya perchaya-lah Kementerian ini tidak lupakan negeri Selangor ini.

Bagaimana pun, biar- lah kita jalankan di-Johor, Perak dan Kelantan lebeh awal dahulu, kemudian kita pandu-lah di-tempat yang lain mengikut keadaan.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $71,600 for Head S. 12 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Head S. 13 The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Dr Lim Swee Aun): Mr Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the sum of $186,376 under Head S. 13, Ministry of Commerce and Industry, stand part of the Schedule.

Sir, as I have said, the sum of $186,366 is required as the first step in our expansion programme of our Trade Commissioner Service (Exten- sion Programme).

This money is required to re-organise and strengthen the Trade Commissioner Service in London.
A supplementary sum, in the form of a token vote of $10 is also requested for the replacement of old and dilapidated furniture in the two offices of the Minister and Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry.
Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah (Kelantan Hilir): Tuan Pengerusi, saya chuma hendak berchakap di-atas perkara ini, pertama-nya saya uchap- kan terima kaseh kapada Yang Ber- hormat Menteri Perdagangan dan Perusahaan kerana dia telah ber- usaha hendak mengadakan protection bagi kain batek yang telah di-cherita- kan kelmarin.

Chuma di-sini sadikit sahaj a saya hendak membahathkan di-atas perkara perkembangan Trade Commissioner yang sedang di-adakan di-London.
Saya harap di-dalam perkembangan bagi pej abat ini hen- dak-lah di-adakan satu section untok membeli barang2 yang di-kehendaki oleh Kerajaan kita.

Jangan-fah lagi di-serahkan perkara pembelian ba- rang2 itu kapada Crown Agent yang mana saya telah sebutkan kelmarin kerana itu ada-lah legacy of the past Colonial reign.

Kita sudah merdeka lama maka barang2 pembelian dari- pada pehak Kerajaan hendak-lah melalul Trade Commissioner kita di- London sana.

Enche' Mohd.
Enche' Mohd.

Daud bin Abdul Samad (Besut): Tuan Pengerusi, tam- bahan perbelanjaan kerana Trade Commissioner di-London telah pun di-adakan, dan yang menjadi per- hatian kapada saya jangan-lah hendak-nya soal Trade Commissioner 2429 16 OCTOBER 1964 2430 di-London itu sahaja di-tambah dan di-baiki tetapi soal perusahaan dan perdagangan bagi orange Melayu di-Tanah Melayu ini juga hendak-lah di-tambah dan di-baiki dari satu masa ka-satu masa.
Tuan Pengerusi, apa- kah sebab saya berkata demikian, pada tahun 1961 ada-lah Menteri Besar dan Menteri2 Persekutuan Tanah Melayu ini telah menggdakan meshuarat untok meninggikan taraf perusahaan dan perdagangan bagi orange Melayu di-Tanah Melayu.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Chairman, Sir, on a point of order the Honourable Member is going on to the policy of promoting Malay participation in commerce and industry.

We are now discussing here the Trade Commis- sioner Service.
Mr Chairman : Yang Berhormat berchakap di-atas dasar `am Kerajaan.

Dasar `am telah kita bahathkan sa- malam, harm ini hanya kita hadkan wang peruntokan dan uchapan Yang Berhormat itu tidak ada kena- mengena dengan perbelanjaan ini, itu ada-lah atoran sa-masa kita dalam Committee mi.

Enche' Mohd.
Enche' Mohd.

Daud bin Abdul Samad: Tuan Pengerusi, saya sa-kali lagi menegaskan dengan harapan dapat perhatian, jangan-lah hendak- nya soal Trade Commissioner di- London itu di-baiki dan di-tambah tetapi hendak-lah soal membaiki dan meninggikan perdagangan perusahaan orange Melayu di-Tanah Melayu ini di-baiki juga.

Datin Fatimah binti Haji Abdul Majid (Johor Bahru Timor): Tuan Pengerusi, saya hendak berchakap di-atas Kepala S. 13, bilangan (147) Trengkas, sa-banyak $2,345.
Bagai- mana saya tahu pelajar2 Trengkas bahasa Melayu sekarang telah banyak lulus dan boleh menulis 100 perkataan satu minit, tetapi dukachita pelajar2 ini tidak dapat memegang jawatan Juru Trengkas itu di-sebabkan sharat2 telah di-berikan oleh pehak Kerajaan is-itu mereka mesti-lah lulus di- dalam Pepereksaan Sijil Persekutuan Tanah Melayu dengan mendapat kepujian dalam bahasa Melayu.

Mr Chairman : Tolong-lah bahathkan wang yang di-tunjokkan itu sahaja.
Datin Fatimah binti Haji Abdul Majid : Tuan Pengerusi, fasal meng- ambil pelajar2 Trengkas Bahasa Melayu, ini peruntokan kerana Trengkas.

Mr Chairman: Itu ada-lah pada dasar `am, patut di-chakapkan pada harm semalam.

Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Chairman, Sir, as this is the first item of the type, I wish to draw your attention to Head S. 13, page 12, in Command Paper 29, item 23.
It is a matter which was discussed at great length yesterday, but in detail I would just like to ask whether the furniture had already been bought and had already been put in.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Chairman, Sir, I wish to go back to the hornet's nest I have stirred up with my medical colleague opposite.
In his reply, at least, I had the impression that he thought I opposed this expenditure on "Trade Commissioners", and therefore he went on in great detail to explain the necessity for the appointment of these Trade Commissioners.

I do not oppose the appointment of these Trade Commissioners.

I do fully agree with him, and I am also aware that it is very important that we should have such Trade Commissioners abroad to sell either of our primary commodities or our manufactured goods.
I am in complete agreement with him, and I do not object to this expenditure of $92,000.

What I objected to was that in one moment, in one breath, he says there is a saving, and in another breath he asks for money for the appointment of these two Commissioners.

That was what I objected to-not the appoint- ment.

Again, Mr Chairman, Sir, may I go back to this question of furniture?
We were assured by the Honourable Minister of Commerce and Industry that he had none other than a high official from the Treasury to inspect the furniture and got the Treasury approval for the purchase of such furniture.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I am very grateful to him for that explanation, 2431 16 OCTOBER 1964 2432 because nowhere is it stated down here that such precautions were taken.
If it was stated that a high officer from the Treasury did inspect the furniture, perhaps, I might not have castigated him the way I did.
But nevertheless, Mr Chairman, Sir, as pointed out in my speech, Government servants are asked to use old furniture, furniture that have been repainted, furniture that have been repaired; and in this time of national crisis, I hope the Minister of Commerce and Industry will agree with me that every effort should be made to save as much money as possible in the interest and welfare of this country.
We cannot go to the tax-payers and say, "You must tighten your belts in the interest of this country", and then they will say, "Well, the Minister can spend $6,000 on furniture.

Why cannot he repair the furniture, why cannot he repaint the furniture?"

That would be the average reaction of the man-in-the street and, I hope the Minister will bear that reaction, because five years hence he will have to go back to the men-in-the street for their votes.
Dr Lim Swee Aun : Mr Chairman, Sir, in reply to the point raised by the Honourable Member for Kelantan Hilir, I would like to point out that the Trade Commissioner Service is not, and cannot be, a buying agent.

However, the Government is fully conscious of the need now to buy more and more locally manufactured goods.

In fact, preference has been given to buy and use locally manu- factured goods wherever available; and in such a case the services of a Government agent are getting smaller and smaller.
However, the Trade Commissioner Service would certainly be in the position to advise Govern- ment on the prices of goods that we would like to import.

In reply to the Honourable Member for Tanjong, who has asked whether or not the furniture has been brought, the answer is "yes".
I am glad that the Honourable Member for Batu has clarified and has made it very clear that he has no objection to the expan- sion of the Trade Commissioner Service because, unless we do that, we will not be able to increase our export earnings -I am happy to hear that he supports that expansion.

Coming back to this great question of whether or not there were actual savings, as raised by the Honourable Member for Batu, I would like to explain that.
Government budgeting is a bit different from business budget- ing.

The Budget for 1963, where personal emoluments are concerned, would be based on the officers, actually serving in my Ministry in 1962.

For example, the personal emoluments for my Ministry for 1963 would be based on the number of bodies in the Minis- try working in 1962 plus any new posts approved.

The total salary will be the expected earnings of these officers depending upon their seniority and their grades.
So, once that has been approved by this House, it does occur sometimes that in a year in which the Budget works for example in 1963 when a certain senior officer is transferred, he is replaced invariably by an officer less senior than him in service.

Therefore, his pay would be less than the previous holder's.

So, in such cases, there would be these actual savings in dollars and cents where personal emoluments are concerned.
Therefore, these savings are actual not from the point of view of not filling a post.

That is why, although the expenditure of buying this furni- ture would not increase the total amount approved for my Ministry for that year, when I was a member of the Public Accounts Committee, that Committee decided that, although the Treasury has the right to approve any virement to spend that.
money out of savings, but because it was to be spent on a separate vote, the House should be given the opportunity to debate and that the Minister should have to defend his case although the Govern- ment has the right of not bringing up such cases to' the notice of this House.
Since this has been brought to this House, and in a way I was partly responsible, as an ex-member of the Public Accounts Committee for this, I am happy that there was adequate debate on this question of why there 2433 16 OCTOBER 1964 2434 was this necessity to spend on this furniture.
As I have pointed out, the members of the Government are fully alive to the very difficult financial position that we are in; and more so, it is my Ministry, that is charged with the responsibility of trying to earn as much as possible for the country.

My Ministry is not a spending Ministry, but it is an earning Ministry and, therefore, we know how hard it is to earn; and because we know how hard it is to earn, we find it sometimes very difficult even to spend unless it is very necessary.
That was why, when this question of replacing this old and dilapidated furniture came up, the Treasury sent up their officials and they were quite satisfied.

Sir, I hope I have convinced this House that that expenditure was necessary.
Dr Lim Chong Eu : Mr Chairman, Sir, the very long explanation made by the Honourable Minister, has made me very unhappy with regard to his reply to me, which was positive, because by virtue of the very expla- nation he has made in regard to the manner of virement the manner of the transfer of expenditure from different Sub-heads and the necessity under the present Constitution where- by such transfers from different Sub- heads within the Head of expenditure should be reported to the House, the Minister, with all his (I am very sure) conscientiousness with regard to savings, did not think it best and wiser for this House to have passed this particular item of supplementary expenditure before having spent that sum of money.
Sir, year in and year out, we read the Public Accounts Committee Reports and we see a whole series of minor maladjustments in virements, and it extends now apparently from the very top right down to the very bottom.

And $6,000 at the top may not be very much but if we allow these minor and little discrepancies extending all through the country, little drops of water can collect into a very big pool.
Sir, we wish that in future if at least the views of this House are to be con- suited, then the Government should have its views consulted and expen- diture approved by the House before the furniture is bought.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Chairman, Sir, I am very glad for the explanation of the Honourable Minister of Com- merce.

He has stressed very empha- tically just now that his Ministry is the earning Ministry.
By that, I thought he wanted to imply that his Ministry, being the biggest earner for this country, should perhaps be the biggest spender.

I hope that is not so.

At least, I have that impression, and I hope he will deny that having earned so much for the country he is entitled to spend at least a six thousand dollars.

That is one observation I would like to make.


The other point that he has not answered is this that I am not ques- tioning the right of any Ministry to vire one Sub-head to another Sub- head.

As the Honourable Member for Tanjong has stated, would it not be far better it come to this House for approval after all, the old and dilapidated furniture can still be used for a little while before spending?

Is there such urgency to purchase this new furniture before coming to this House and getting its approval?
That is the observation made by the Honourable Member for Tanjong.

Sir, my question is this.

The Honourable Minister has explained at great length that there is a savings of $6,000, and he has explained that it was not from the unfilled posts but from the transfer of senior officers elsewhere, whereby you have the junior officers coming in and you pay less salaries, that he has been able to save this sum.

My question is this.


You do not spend personal emoluments for any other thing if you need a further sum under personal emoluments for Trade Com- missioners; consequently, if the Ministry felt that there was this need for two Trade Commissioners to be appointed, then these savings should properly go towards the emoluments of the Trade Commissioners and not to be vired elsewhere.

That is my follow-up to the Minister of Com- merce and not that he has no right 2435 16 OCTOBER 1964 2436 to vire.
But if you have savings under P.E., on the same page, you don't say, "We want a sum of money under P.E."

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, saya sangat tidak puas hati bagi jawapan yang telah di-berikan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Perdagangan yang berkata, sekarang ini Kerajaan dengan giat-nya suka hendak memajukan perusahaan dalam negeri dengan membeli barang2, kalau boleh, biar-lah barang2 yang di-buat oleh Malaysia.
Tetapi saya suka-lah hendak menarek pandangan Yang Berhormat Menteri itu, baha- wasa-nya ada-lah barang2 yang di- keluarkan dari Tanah Melayu is-lah barang2 yang tidak sampai pun 1/10 daripada barang2 yang di-beli dari luar negeri.

Lebeh2 lagi tentang perkara ma- chinery dan lain2 lagi, sa-hinggakan pencil ini pun, saya tengok "Made in England".

Bukan sahaja perkara ma- chinery yang di-beli dari England, bahkan sampai pencil yang bagini kechil pun di-beli dari England juga.
Sekarang ini ada satu chadangan ia- itu ada-lah Pejabat Trade Commis- sioner di-London itu hendak di-per- besarkan lagi, maka sangat-lah elok di-adakan satu purchasing section di-dalam Trade Commissioner ini untok membeli barang2 dengan tidak berhajat lagi di-pakai, atau di-gunakan Crown Agent di-sana, kerana beratus2 ribu ringgit pada tiap2 tahun yang Kerajaan Tanah Melayu.
kita ini mem- bayar kapada Crown Agent, wal hal di-sini kita telah menambah bagitu banyak pula perbelanjaan, jadi mana- kah ada saving-nya?

Kita sekarang, kalau boleh hendak menjimatkan perbelanjaan supaya dapat-lah wang itu dapat di-gunakan bagi kebaikan negeri.
Oleh sebab yang demikian, saya harap, saya akan mendapat satu penjelasan yang lebeh lagi me- muaskan hati daripada Menteri yang tersebut, kerana ada-lah Crown Agent ini sudah lama dan sudah lapok, dan tidak-lah sayugia bagi sa-buah negeri yang merdeka yang bagitu lama menggunakan lagi Crown Agent mi.
Kalau sa-kira-nya kita tidak ada technician dan orang yang tahu tentang chara membeli jentera2 dan injin2, kita (boleh) gajikan sa-orang dua technician untok bekerj a dalam bahagian Trade Commissioner kita di-sana.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Chairman, Sir, coming back to this question of whether or not the Government should spend money before it comes to this House for approval, I hope the House will concede that the Government should be able to have a certain dis- cretions on that.
Otherwise, Govern- ment's machinery would not be able to move as fast as it should.

Take, for example, this question of the Trade Commissioners' Service.

Money has been advanced from the Contingen- cies Fund.

It is a matter of opinion as to what priority and what urgency there is for this expenditure.
I wish to make it very clear to the Honourable Member for Batu that when I said that my Ministry is an earning Ministry, and not a spending Ministry, I fully realised the value of money because it is so hard to earn, and it is incorrect if he has got the impression that because I earn money I should spend more money that is not correct.
With reference to the question raised by the Honourable Member for Batu, as to why was it necessary to ask for the emoluments under the Trade Commissioners' Service when there was saving under the Head "Personal Emoluments" which was used for the purchase of furniture, he has a point there; but for the purposes of presentation, if the emoluments had been put down under this savings here, then it would be breaking up that figure.
In any case, this is a question of presentation, because this money was advanced from the Con- tingencies Fund as a, block.
Coming to the point raised by the Honourable Member for Kelantan Hilir about the Crown Agents, I would like to point out that there is a Treasury Directive -I think it is under the Financial Orders that all Ministries must buy from the cheapest tenderer, subject to the quality and all the other things being the same, 2437 16 OCTOBER 1964 2438 unless there is a special reason for not doing so.
I am now no more on the Public Accounts Committee, but I also gather that a substantial amount of imported goods are bought in the local market now.

So this question of whether or not there should be a Buying Division in the Trade Com- missioner's Office in London would be a matter that has to be taken up with the Treasury, because buying does not come under my Ministry.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $186,376 for Head S. 13 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Head S. 14 The Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice (Dato' Dr Ismail): Tuan Pengerusi, saya memohon men- chadangkan supaya Kepala Perbekalan 14 yang menunjokkan peruntokan sa-banyak $13,957,597 bagi Kemen- terian Pertahanan sa-bagai tambahan untok tahun 1964 di-persetujukan.

Keadaan yang berlaku di-negeri kita pada masa ini memerlukan kita bersiap sedia.

Angkatan Bersenjata mesti-lah di-perbesarkan dengan menambah lagi bilangan tentera yang terlateh.
Sa-lain dari tambahan orang, Angkatan Bersenjata kita hendak-lah juga di-perlengkapkan dengan alat2 jentera, barang2 dan perkakas2 yang perlu untok kegunaan mereka dalam menjalankan tugas-nya.

Tentera Wataniah yang termasok di-dalam-nya Pasokan Pertahanan Tempatan terpaksa-lah di-perluaskan lagi dengan menubohkan pasokan2 di-merata2 tempat di-Malaya mi.
Tempat2 yang telah sedia ada dalam Pasokan Pertahanan Tempatan di- perbanyakkan lagi orang-nya dan di-tempat2 yang tidak ada pasokan ini satu pasokan baharu di-tubohkan manakala tempat itu di-anggap patut mempunyai satu pasokan.

Walau pun demikian, pada masa ini belum lagi semua tempat2 dan kampong2 di- Malaya mempunyai Pasokan Perta- hanan Tempatan.
Sa-kira-nya tempat2 itu di-pandang mustahak, maka satu pasokan akan di-tubohkan; darn ini berma`ana-lah bahawa saya terpaksa meminta wang lagi di-luluskan oleh Dewan mi.

Tuan Pengerusi, penambahan ahli2 Pasokan Pertahanan Tempatan itu menyedabkan banyak alat2 perkakas dan barang2 di-kehendaki.

Barang2 yang pada masa dahulu tidak di- anggap perlu, terpaksa-lah di-beli dan di-lengkapkan kapada ahli2 pasokan ini memandang kapada tugas2 yang di-jalankan oleh mereka itu.
Oleh yang demikian sa-banyak $11,599,633 di-kehendaki untok membesarkan Pasokan Pertahanan Tempatan dan membeli barang2 dan perkakas.

Peruntokan sa-banyak $1,197,954 lagi ada-lah di-kehendaki bagi Baha- gian Perkhidmatan Negara, yang pada masa ini berj clan dengan amat me- muaskan.
Sa-bagaimana Ahli2 Yang Berhormat ma`alum, Kerajaan telah mengambil keputusan memanggil pemuda-pemudi yang berumor dari 21 tahun hingga 29 tahun untok di- beri latehan tentera dan pertahanan awam dengan muksud bertugas mem- pertahankan negara dari sa-barang anchaman apabila di-kehendaki.

Wang yang di-sebutkan itu ada-lah di-gunakan untok dua maksud.
Maksud yang pertama is-lah menu- bohkan pejabat dengan mengadakan alat2 perkakas dan kelengkapan pejabat saperti alat tulis dan penche- takan, dan penyelenggaraan pejabat yang berjumlah sa-banyak $49,042.00.
Maksud yang kedua ada-lah di- perlui bagi mewujudkan jawatan2 yang di-kehendaki bagi memberi latehan kapada pemuda2 yang telah di-panggil itu dan juga menyediakan alat2 perkakas dan barang2 yang sangat mustahak untok latehan tentera di-jalankan dengan sempurna, saperti mengadakan pakaian, peluru, chatuan, perubatan, perkakas dan barang perumahan dan lain2 lagi.

Jumlah wang yang di-perlui itu is-lah $1,138,912.
Tuan Pengerusi dan Ahli2 Yang Berhormat tentu maseh ingat is-itu apabila Menteri Pertahanan berchakap atas Anggaran Perbelanjaan Tambahan Tahun 1964 Yang Pertama dahulu 2439 16 OCTOBER 1964 2440 is-lah telah menyebutkan jumlah wang yang di-kehendaki bagi Kemen- terian Pertahanan dalam maksud mendirikan tempat kediaman semen- tara bagi tentera kita yang bertugas di-wilayah Borneo beliau telah me- nyatakan bahawa tambahan akan di- minta untok mendirikan tempat kediaman itu dari masa ka-masa.
Jumlah wang yang di-kehendaki itu is-lah $5,070,000 dan sa-banyak $3,910,000 telah pun di-perolehi hingga pada masa mi.

Peruntokan sa- banyak $1,160,000 yang di-minta ini ada-lah baki dari jumlah yang di- kehendaki itu.

Wang tanda $10 itu ada-lah di-belanjakan untok memberi alat radio yang berharga sa-banyak $75,000 bagi di-pasang kapada kapal terbang Provost yang di-gunakan untok latehan.
Kapal terbang Provost Angkatan Tentera di-Raja kita mem- punyai alat radio yang lama dan tidak memadai apabila kapal terbang itu berada di-tempat di-mana perto- longan dari luar tidak di-dapati.

Oleh itu sangat mustahak lagi bagi kapal terbang Provost itu di-lengkapkan dengan alat radio baharu yang boleh di-gunakan oleh kapal terbang itu dengan tidak di-kehendaki bantuan dari luar.

Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise to refer to page 13, item 27, of Command Paper No.

29.
29.

We have absolutely no quarrel with the expen- diture made for Defence.

As a matter of fact, here is an issue where we give absolute support and whenever the Government thinks it necessary to spend further sums of money for the defence of this nation, you will find support forthcoming from us.
However, in this debate, I have already raised an issue for carefulness in spending, and Government had indicated its care and tried to elaborate to the country that it is extremely aware of the need for savings at this time, and I refer to item 27 as only an example, because if one considers that the VHF radio transceiver was only purchased fairly recently and the fact that it has now become obsolescent, makes it rather peculiar that Government, when it first purchased this particular type of radio transceiver, did not consider the fact that training aircraft would have to operate not just within the area of Kuala Lumpur but through- out the whole of Malaysia over sparsely covered territories.
Sir, the other point which we would like to know something about is, once these new receivers have been pur- chased, what would happen to the obsolescent VHF radio transceiver?

I do hope it is not just put away or sold out on tender but could probably be used by lending it or giving it to the local Air Clubs or Air Training Corps for their use.
Enche' Hussein bin To' Muda Hassan (Raub): Tuan Pengerusi, saya chuma hendak menarek perhatian Yang Berhormat Menteri Pertahanan is-itu dalam masa penubohan Pa- sokan Pertahanan Tempatan di kawasan saya dahulu ada kampong2 yang mustahak yang patut di-tuboh- kan telah lupa di-tubohkan.

Maka di-dalam kawasan saya pada masa sekarang L.D.C.

ada 11 pasokan.

Dahulu saya telah membuat rayuan kapada Menteri Pertahanan meminta tambah lagi 7 pasokan, kerana ada 7 kampong yang mustahak di-adakan L.D.C.
Maka ini-lah saya merayu kapada Pemangku Menteri Pertahanan minta di-timbangkan dengan segera- nya.

Sa-perkara lagi saya suka hendak menarek perhatian Pemangku Menteri Pertahanan is-lah berkenaan masa panggilan negara terhadap pasokan bersenjata, pasokan tentera tmpatan dan juga L.D.C.

di-panggil berlateh dan mereka itu sakalian di-minta berkumpul di-suatu tempat dalam daerah itu, maka saya dapati tidak ada persiapan berkenaan dengan makan pagi.
Mereka' itu datang ber- kumpul ka-situ sa-belum mereka di-bawa ka-tempat berlateh.

Oleh itu saya minta Pemangku.

Menteri Per- tahanan lihat perkara ini supaya jangan-lah mereka yang berkhidmat itu lapar, kerana saya dapati pada satu masa mereka sakalian di-panggil berlateh ka-Mentakab dengan tidak di-beri makan pagi dahulu sa-belum bertolak, apabila mereka sampai ka- Mentakab mereka telah muntah dan 2441 16 OCTOBER 1964 2442 tidak berdaya pada hari itu dan ter- baring sampai petang.
Enche' Othman bin Abdullah (Perlis Utara): Tuan Pengerusi, saya bangun kerana mengalu2kan peruntokan per- belanjaan yang di-bentangkan oleh Menteri yang berkenaan.

Saya suka, yang pertama sa-kali, menarek per- hatian berkenaan dengan peruntokan Pasokan Pertahanan Tempatan.

Saya gemar menarek perhatian dan suka- chita menguchapkan sa-tinggi2 tahniah dan terima kaseh kapada Menteri Pertahanan yang telah mengadakan ranchangan menubohkan Pasokan Pertahanan.
Tempatan yang ada di- kampong2, kerana sa-panjang yang saya tahu bahawa dengan pengambilan pemuda2 untok di-jadikan tentera tempatan itu nampak-nya pemuda2 kampong dudok dengan chara berse- mangat lebeh2 lagi kerana membela dan mempertahankan tanah ayer ter- utama sa-kali pada masa sekarang mi.

Yang kedua oleh sebab Kementerian ini sedar bahawa tentera tempatan patut di-tambah lagi.
Maka saya sukachita menarek perhatian bahawa peruntokan ini memang kena pada tempat dan masa-nya, terutama sa- kali saya menyeru kapada Menteri yang berkenaan supaya menubohkan tentera wataniah itu di-kawasan sempadan terutama sa-kali bagi negeri Perlis yang di-utara-nya berperenggan dengan negeri Siam yang sekarang ini maseh di-kawal rapi dan bagitu juga di-kawasan2 yang berhampiran dengan sempadan pantai negeri Perlis yang juga berhampiran dengan negeri Siam dan juga di-situ boleh di-katakan berhampiran dengan Acheh.
Sa- panjang yang saya tahu ada di-antara nelayan2 Indonesia dapat, datang di- utara negeri Siam bagi menchari makan merupakan sa-bagai nelayan yang kita belum tahu lagi sama ada benar2 nelayan atau sa-benar-nya penyuloh bagi tentera Indonesia.

Maka dengan sebab itu-lah saya menyeru supaya Menteri yang berkenaan me- nubohkan dengan lebeh banyak lagi Pasokan Tentera Wataniah itu, ter- utama sa-kali di-Perlis dan di-kawasan sempadan sa-bagaimana yang saya katakan tadi.
Saya perchaya dengan penubohan tentera wataniah ini selu- roh pemuda akan lebeh bersemangat lagi menjaga dan mempertahankan tanah ayer kita sekarang mi.

Enche' Chia Thye Poh (Singapore): Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise to make a few comments on the expenditure on.

the National Service Division.

Sir, since the announcement of National Service Registration, the response to undergo military training is poor.
In spite of the fact that a number of youths have been forced to undergo military training in Port Dickson, a great number of youths in Singapore, Sarawak and Sabah, as well as the Federation of Malaya, still refuse to register.

The exact number for con- scription has been concealed by the Government.

It was Scheduled to conscribe 2,000 youths in Singapore, but in the first batch only less than a hundred turned up to go to Port Dickson.
They do not register and refuse to undergo military training, because they want peace and do not want to fight a meaningless war and to die for the imperialists.

Many youths in these territories not only have refused to register to undergo military training, but they have also launched a campaign in a variety of forms such as, demonstrations, sticking up posters, public gathering to oppose conscription.

Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail (Kuala Trengganu Utara): On a point of order S.O.

35 (6).
35 (6).

"Sa-saorang Ahli ta' boleh membacha uchapan-nya."

Saya perhatikan Ahli itu selalu mem- bacha uchapan-nya.

Mr Chairman : It is better for you to put down the paper.

Enche' Chia Thye Poh: Yes.

Mr Chairman : I would like to men- tion another thing.

It is that you should confine yourself to the policy of the service for which money is provided and do not speak on the general policy of the Government, as we have debated that yesterday.
Enche' Chia Thye Poh: Sir, I will not go far into the general policy.

I am just making a few comments on this expenditure.

2443 16 OCTOBER 1964 2444 Sir, it is possible, and it is correct, to defeat any attempt to make Asians fight Asians, and not to provide the imperialists with cannon fodder.

Sir, the Government should immediately rectify its present policy and stop con- scribing such youths for military training.

That is all I wish to say.


Wan Abdul Nadir bin Ismail: Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka memberi tahniah kapada Kementerian Pertahanan dan Kerajaan yang telah mengambil lang- kah yang tegas membesarkan pasokan kawalan tempatan dalam menghadapi konfrantasi Indonesia yang mencheng- kam kita pada masa mi.

Dan saya rasa, dan saga alami sendiri, sambutan ka- pada langkah Kerajaan membesarkan pasokan pertahanan tempatan itu sa- ngat besar dan memuaskan sa-kali.
Pada hari ini maseh ramai pemuda2 yang bersedia menanti bagi memasoki lagi pasokan ini kalau peluang itu di- besarkan dan maseh di-buka.

Saya percha.ya ini ada-lah timbul daripada semangat perwira yang ada pada pe- muda2 kita, dan kalau-lah ada ten- tangan dari Barisan Socialist Singapura, yang mengatakan sambutan-nya ku- rang, ini ada-lah diayah daripada pengkhianat2 yang suka negeri ini di- jajah oleh Soekarno dan Aidit.
Saya merasa walau bagaimana pun mereka membawa diayah dalam Dewan ini, modal mereka itu modal basi, yang sudah tentu akan di-muntahkan kem- bali oleh ra`ayat kapada gulongan2 mi.
Dalam Kepala Kechil 25, perbelan- jaan untok melateh orange yang di- kerah tenaga-nya dalam pasokan ten- tera sa-banyak satu million lebeh, saya suka juga memberi pujian dan tahniah yang besar atas langkah Kerajaan mengambil langkah menjalankan ke- rahan tenaga, dan saya sendiri nampak bahawa sambutan kapada perkara ini juga chukup besar dan memuaskan.
Saya hanya meminta kapada Kerajaan bersunggoh2 supaya bilangan orange dan pemuda2 yang di-ambil dan di- panggil untok berkhidmat itu akan di- tambah lagi bilangan-nya pada masa2 akan datang.

Kerana kita berhajat ka- pada pertahanan kita sendiri yang kuat pada masa ini, di-samping kita di-bantu oleh negara2 yang memang bersempati dan bersahabat baik dengan kita.
Saya tidak tahu ada-kah dalam bi- langan orange yang di-kerah tenaga untok perkhidmatan dalam pasokan setia negara ini hanya di-tumpukan kapada anggota angkatan darat sahaja, ta' termasok angkatan bersenjata yang lain saperti angkatan udara dan laut.
Dan saya rasa sa-lain daripada pe- muda2 yang di-kerah dalam pasokan setia negara untok angkatan darat, saya berasa sangat mustahak juga sa-baha- gian yang bukan kechil patut juga di- panggil berkhidmat untok angkatan laut, terutama sa-kali laut kita ini pan- jang dan luas dan banyak bahaya2 penyeludupan yang akan datang masok ka-pantai2 kita.
Saya berharap-fah kalau langkah ini sudah di-jalankan, perkara ini di-luaskan lagi dari segi mengerah tenaga pemuda2 bagi berkhid- mat dalam angkatan bersenjata untok angkatan laut, sa-lain daripada ang- katan darat, terima kaseh.

Enche' Ibrahim bin Abdul Rahman (Seberang Tengah): Tuan Pengerusi, saya uchapkan berbanyak2 terima ka- seh kapada Menteri Pertahanan ini kerana menguntokkan Wang yang saya lihat dalam Command Paper 29 sa- banyak $1,197,954.
Sa-kira-nya Yang Berhormat Menteri yang berkenaan berkehendakkan Tentera Wataniah itu, bukan sahaja 11 pasokan tetapi 100 atau 200 pasokan saya boleh menchari orang-nya untok menjaga budak2 nakal Soekarno di-Indonesia.

Sa-bagai- mana Barisan Socialist di-Singapura kata-nya tadi sambutan kurang tetapi panggilan banyak.
Tempat saya bila2 masa sahaja, Tuan Pengerusi, bukan 11 pasokan saperti yang ada sekarang ini tetapi 100 boleh saya charikan pe- muda2 bila2 masa di-mana juga tempat mereka itu sedia menunggu.

Dato' Dr Ismail : Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like, first, to reply to the Honourable Member for Tanjong.

I am sure he understands English, judg- ing from the many speeches he made in this House.
If he had read this Treasury Memorandum, Command Pa- per 29, he would have seen there that the Provost training aircraft of the Royal Malaysian Air Force is fitted with an obsolescent V.H.F.

radio trans- ceiver.

If he had read that sentence, or part of that sentence, he would not 2445 16 OCTOBER 1964 2446 have made that wild allegation that when this plane was bought it was not fitted with V.H.F.

transceiver.

The fact is that this plane was fitted with a V.H.F.
transceiver but it has become obsolescent.

That is why we want to fit this plane with a new V.H.F.

up-to-date radio transceiver.

The second part of his observation is quite reasonable and it is, of course, the intention of the Government to sell this obsolescent V.H.F.

radio trans- ceiver on tender, and where other Departments would like to make use of it, of course they would have to pay for it.
Dr Lim Chong Eu: On a point of clarification, Sir, I did not say that I object to the fact that when the Provost training aircraft was bought it did not have any transceiver.

I said that when the aircraft was bought, it was unfortu- nate that the Government should have bought it with a transceiver "which has become obsolescent".

Dato' Dr Ismail: That makes it worse for the Honourable Member.
How is the Government going to know that the instrument will become obsole- scent when the need arises, because, after all, we bought it a few years ago.

As the Honourable Member knows, in other countries they spend millions of dollars because the instruments have become obsolescent when the need arises.

I think that makes it worse for the Honourable Member who is trying to correct himself.
Berkenaan dengan tegoran Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Raub yang me- ngatakan is-itu Pasokan Tentera Tem- patan itu di-tubohkan dengan tidak di-beri makanan.

Perkara ini boleh-lah di-siasat dengan lebeh lanjut lagi oleh pehak yang berkuasa tetapi pada biasa-nya tidak ada chatuan2 yang tidak di-berikan kapada Pasokan Tentera mahu pun kapada Tentera Tempatan.
Atas tegoran daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Perlis Utara is-itu su- paya Kerajaan menubohkan tentera pertahanan dengan lebeh banyak lagi, terutama di-sempadan, pada dasar-nya satu pasokan tentera pertahanan akan di-tubohkan pada tempat2 yang mem- punyai pendudok sa-banyak dua ribu hingga tiga ribu orang.
Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Trengganu Utara meminta supaya kita lebeh chergas lagi dalam soal konfran- tasi ini dan juga saya suka-Iah mem- balas atas tegoran berkenaan dengan bilangan ahli2 bahagian perkhidmatan negara di-tambah lagi pada masa yang akan datang.

Hal ini memang di-kehen- daki, tetapi oleh kerana kesulitan tempat latehan maka terpaksa-lah kita melateh ahli2 itu sadikit demi sadikit, akhir-nya bilangan itu akan di-tambah lagi.
Now, we come to the Honourable Member, Enche' Chia Thye Poh, who, I presume, represents the Barisan So- sialis in this House.

Of course, the Barisan Sosialis always tries to create a discordant note on this confrontation issue.

Instead of trying to ask the people to enrol themselves for national registration, the Barisan Sosialis has done the contrary.

The Honourable Member has given the figure that a very few people have responded, but con- trary is the fact.
In spite of what the Barisan Sosialis tries to do in Singa- pore, people are coming in big num- bers to register themselves.

I would like to take this opportunity to tell the Barisan Sosialis that thanks to our con- cept of democracy in this country, the Barisan Sosialis, in spite of all the attempts to create discord, is allowed to carry on.

However, as in everything in nature, there is a limit to it.

I think I have answered all the ques- tion.

Question put, and agreed to.


The sum of $13,957,597 for Head S. 14 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Heads S. 15 and S. 66D The Minister of Education (Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib): Tuan Pengerusi, dengan izin tuan, saya ingin mengemukakan S. 15 sa-banyak $40 dan S. 66D sa-banyak $10 di-luluskan.
Sebab2 perlu mengadakan perbelanjaan di-bawah tiap2 pechahan kepala ini ada di-terangkan dalam chatitan yang terkandong dalam Kertas Titah Bila- ngan 29 / 1964, dan di-bawah Kepala 15 2447 16 OCTOBER 1964 2448 dan Kepala 66D.

Tetapi saya suka memberi penjelasan yang lanjut ber- kenaan dengan butir2 yang berikut, Commonwealth Institute London, memperbaiki keadaan Barang2 Per- tunjokan Tanah Melayu.
Wang sa- banyak $25,715 ada-lah di-kehendaki untok perbelanjaan membaiki Barang2 Pertunjokan Tanah Melayu di-Com- monwealth Institute London.

Surohan Jaya Tinggi Tanah iielayu berkata barang2 pertunjokan kita tidak me- muaskan dan di-fikirkan bahawa tindakan mesti-lah di-ambit bagi membaiki keadaan itu.

Satu ranchangan membaharul barang2 pertunjokan itu mesti-lah di-jalankan supaya Tanah Melayu boleh di- gambarkan dengan sa-benar2-nya.
Pem- baharuan pertunjokan pada hakikat-nya ada-lah sangat2 perlu, kerana pertun- jokan itu ada-lah menarek perhatian sa-kurang2-nya satu juta orang sa- tahun.

Sumbangan kapada kempen Antara Bangsa menyelamatkan Tugu2 Per- ingatan, wang sa-banyak $70,000 ada- lah di-kehendaki untok mi.

Pada tahun 1960 Republik Arab Bersatu telah mulakan membena sa-buah Ampangan di-Sungai Niel dekat Aswan, ampangan ini ada-lah memberi harapan besar untok kemajuan pertanian dan perusa- haan Republik Arab Bersatu.
Dengan pembenaan ampangan itu sa-buah tasek yang besar akan terjadi di-Novia, dan ini mungkin menghapuskan bebe- rapa tugu2 yang sangat indah dan permai di-seluroh dunia ini.

Pejabat Arab Bersatu telah membuat ran- changan kapada Pertubohan Pendide- kan Sain dan Kebudayaan Bangsa2 Bersatu atau UNESCO untok men- dapatkan bantuan wang dari negeri2 luar supaya tugu2 peringatan itu dapat di-selamatkan.
Ahli Yang Berhormat sedia ma`alum bahawa Republik Arab Bersatu sen- tiasa bermurah Kati kapada penuntut2 Malaysia yang menuntut di-Masir, sa- bagai tanda penghargaan dan muhib- bah, Kerajaan Malaysia telah membuat keputusan untok memberi sumbangan mengutip derma untok menyelamatkan tugu2 peringatan di-Novia itu.

Sakian- lah, Tuan Pengerusi, saya menchadang- kan peruntokan sa-banyak $50 di- bawah Kepala S. 15 dan S. 66 (b) itu di-luluskan.

Question put and agreed to.


The sum of $40 for Head S. 15 and the sum of $10 for Head S. 66D ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Sitting suspended at 12 noon.

Sitting resumed at 4.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) EXEMPTED BUSINESS (Motion) Enche' Tan Siew Sin : Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That, notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 12 (1), the House shall not adjourn this day until after the completion of all Government business shown on the Order Paper.
The object of this motion is, of course, obvious.

It is to ensure that at least Government business is completed before the House adjourns indefinitely some time, we hope, today (Laughter).

Dato' Dr Ismail : Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolved, That, notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 12 (1), the House shall not adjourn this day until after the completion of all Government business shown on the Order Paper.
Mr Speaker : The sitting is suspended till 5.30 p.m. this afternoon.

Sitting suspended at 4.35 p.m.

Sitting resumed at 5.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) House immediately resolved itself into a Committee of Supply.
(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Head S. 16 The Assistant Minister of National and Rural Development and Assistant Minister of Justice (Enche' Abdul- Rahman bin Ya`kub): Mr Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the sum of 2449 16 OCTOBER 1964 2450 $1,130,074 for Head S. 16, Ministry of External Affairs, stand part of the Schedule.
As adequate explanations in respect of the various sub-heads enu- merated on pages 24, 25 and 26 of Command Paper 28 of 1964 and also on pages 15, 16, 17 and 18 of Com- mand Paper 29 of 1964 are contained in those Papers, I do not propose to waste the time of this House by repeat- ing the explanation already given.

However, I will explain briefly sub- heads 34, 43, 45, 47, 48, 49, 64 and 66.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I now refer to sub-head 34, page 16 of the Command Paper 29 of 1964.
The sum required is for three additional Chubb Correspon- dence Safes, which have to be pur- chased for the Ministry in order to ensure greater security for the storage of highly classified documents.

I will now turn to sub-heads 43, 45, 47, 48 and 49.

The explanation given in paragraph 35 of Command Paper 29 is in respect of groups of identical expenditure under these sub-heads.
However, in order to clarify the posi- tion, I shall briefly state the purpose of the expenditure in respect of each sub- head and to provide certain break- down figures.

In respect of sub-head 43, the sum of $6,000 is required for the purchase of six air-conditioners and two ceiling fans for the residence and office of the Ambassador in Jeddah, who was appointed only earlier this year.
Under sub-head 45, Furniture and Household Requisites, the sum of $59,219 is required for the following purposes : (i) $41,897 for the Ambassador's residence and other home-based staff in Jeddah; (ii) $17,322 for three new offices for the Information Attache, Third Secretary and Stenographer in the Embassy in Tokyo.
With respect to sub-head 47, Office Furniture and Equipment, amounting to $8,676, the requirements are for the following : (i) $6,552 for office furniture and equipment for the Ambassador, as well as for the replacement of certain old items for the Embassy in Jeddah; (ii) $1,156 for two additional offices in Tokyo; (iii) $968 for the replacement of unserviceable items of furniture and household requisites for the Assistant High Commissioner in Madras.
The sum of $966 under sub-head 48 is required for the purchase of a refri- gerator for the Ambassador in Jeddah.

With regard to sub-head 49, this reefers to our Consulate in Manila, where a Consulate has been established recently, and it has been found neces- sary to undertake some renovations to the Consulate Office, including appro- priate partitions for rooms as well as for other requirements.

For the pur- pose, a sum of $10,000 is required.

I now turn to sub-head 64.


Under this sub-head, the provisions requested are required for expenses in connection with the transportation and prepara- ti®n of the body of the late Enche' Noordin bin Ariffin, an Executive Officer serving in the High Commission in Karachi, who passed away as a result of an accident.
Under sub-head 66-I think it was yesterday or the day before yesterday - the Honourable Member for Tanjong; made an observation concerning the issue of commemorative stamps Mr Chairman, Sir, as the Honourable Member had stated, the late Mrs Roosevelt was well known for her international humanitarian deeds.
The response by the Government of Malay- sia to support the issue of the com- memorative stamps is not only an expression of its support for such international humanitarian activities but also to contribute towards various projects which the late Mrs Roosevelt had initiated.

This, of course, included an International Fellowship on Cancer Research and Assistance to the Emotionally-disturbed under-privileged Children.
Therefore, the Government considers that the support of the issue of the commemorative stamps is not in any way a project of prestige as had 2451 16 OCTOBER 1964 2452 been described by the Honourable Member for Tanjong yesterday; rather, it is a project in support of inter- national humanitarian activities.

I think those are the only explana- tions I need give.

I shall, of course, answer any question which any Honourable Member may ask.
Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah (Bachok): Tuan Pengerusi, dalam Perbelanjaan Tambahan Pechahan Kepala 66 ini ada tersebut berkenaan dengan kechergasan kemanusiaan ter- sentoh pula berkenaan dengan penyakit cancer.

Dua tahun yang lalu ada di- siarkan di-dalam surat khabar bahawa Kementerian atau pun Kerajaan akan mengadakan pegawai2 yang lengkap sa-kira-nya di-dapati daripada ke- putusan UNESCO bahawa penyakit itu boleh di-ubatkan kalau terkena kapada kanak2.
Kemudian kalau tidak salah saya sudah ada satu penyataan dari- pada UNESCO bahawa penyakit itu sudah di-ketahui yang dia boleh di- ubat.

Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya`kub: On a point of information.

May I know what sub-head the Honourable Mem- ber is talking about?

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Berkenaan dengan sub-head 66 Com- mand Paper 29, muka 25.
Jadi, sa-kira- nya dalam apa tambahan yang kita beri itu ada kena-mengena dengan research, saya berharap Menteri yang berkenaan tolong beritahu ada-kah benda itu sudah kita mulakan di- negeri kita mi.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Chairman, Sir, may I refer to Command Paper No.

29, Head S. 16, item 36, Expenses of officers on visit to various States in Africa.

Sir, this country has spent $66,730 on that junketing across the African Continent.
The publicity given to that junketing was very great, and we were assured that we had estab- lished cordial relations and rapport with the African States, especially the newly emergent African countries.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I do not know whether the Honourable Assistant Minister of National and Rural Deve- lopment is aware of this fact : if what the Government has stated were true, that we had established cordial rela- tions and rapport with the African States, then how is it that this country was not invited to the Conference of non-aligned countries at Cairo?

Mr Chairman, Sir, it seems to me that .

.

Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya`kub: Mr Chairman, Sir, on a point of order S.O.

67 (5).
67 (5).

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : I am referring to the expenditure in regard to the visit to the African States, Sir, and surely I am allowed to comment on it!
Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya`kub: Mr Chairman, Sir, that Standing Order says : "The debate on a supplementary Supply Bill in Committee of Supply shall be limited to the particulars contained in the estimates on which the supplementary appropriations are sought; such debate may not touch the policy or the expenditure sanctioned by the estimates in which the original appropriation was obtained .

.

.
.

.

... Sir, the question of non-attendance at the Conference of non-aligned nations at Cairo has nothing to do with this item.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Chairman, Sir, I beg to differ because I was going to comment on the fact that this visit is a pure waste of money, unlike what the Government would like us to believe, as shown by our non-invitation to the Conference of non-aligned nations.
However, Sir, to please the Assistant Minister, I shall not comment longer on this except to say that what is needed is not such junketings or the opening of more Embassies and spend- ing of more money; and what is needed is, perhaps, a re-orientation of our foreign policy.

Dr Lim Chong Eu : Mr Chairman, Sir, I am just as keen as the Honour- able Minister of Finance that this session will finish tonight.
I had no intention actually to rise on this occa- sion, but in view of the fact that the Honourable Assistant Minister chose to refer to page 18 of Command Paper No.

29, item 41, with regard to the Eleanor Roosevelt Memorial, a subject which was substantially replied to and ably too by the Minister of 2453 16 OCTOBER 1964 2454 Works, Posts and Telecommunications.

I would wish just to say that, to my mind, it is not only a question of prestige but also a question of frills.
We are trying to make savings under these times of stringency; and I think it will aid us considerably when we go around asking other countries to give us aid, because of confrontation and so on, if we show that we are able to make some savings.

With regard to whether or not this is prestige, I just make this comparison.

A Minister who has served this House very ably for many years, on his demise, gets only $35,000 or something of that region, to show our apprecia- tion.
But, on the other hand, to show our appreciation for undoubtedly a very great human figure, the late Eleanor Roosevelt, we chose to spend $52,000.

Why can't we spend a little bit less?

For example, the subject for this Memorial is the question of cancer research.

Sir, we could spend $30,000, or less than $30,000, as a token appre- ciation of the work, and divert more sums to cancer research in our own country, for example.
Sir, this is just what I mean by prestige and how to balance prestige; otherwise, we have no yardstick.

I only raise this question and I do not raise it for the interest of the Minister of Finance hoping that we can make savings.

The Minister of Works, Posts and (Dato' V. T. Telecommunications Sambanthan): Mr Chairman, Sir, on this point, I can throw some light.
It is not that we are sending the money from here, but we are sending the equivalent face value of these stamps to this country and it sells them to philatelists to make their money.

It is just that, and it is also a symbol of international friendship.

We have done so in the past for various occasions, and this is yet another.

Tuan Haji Mokhtar bin Haji Ismall (Perlis Selatan): Tuan Pengerusi, Cmd.

Paper 29, Sub-head 16, $10 kerana memperhiasi, memperbaiki Consulate di-Phillipines.
Tuan Pengerusi, saya berharap-lah Menteri yang berkenaan supaya mengambil peringatan ber- kenaan dengan perbelanjaan itu yang mana saya rasa perlgiasan itu sangat sadikit, kerana memandangkan keadaan perkembangan politik kita pada hari ini, bahawasa-nya di-Manila itu ada-Iah menjadi satu pusat bagi politik Antara Bangsa, dan baharu2 ini saya telah mendapat peluang juga melawat ka- sana dan melihat Consulate kita sana tidak bersesuai dengan perkembangan yang ada pada hari mi.
Oleh kerana itu saya memandangkan bahawa Consulate kita di-Phillipines itu harus-lah di-atasi dalam serba kekurangan, jadi oleh sebab itu saya merayu-lah kapada pehak Kementerian supaya memikirkan untok mem- perbanyakkan perhiasan2 yang ada dalam Consulate itu supaya menjadi satu daya penarek bagi orange yang ada di-sana.
Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka hendak bangun bagi menyokong peruntokan yang di- minta ini, dan hendak memberi sadikit pandangan di-atas Pechahan Kepala 36, peruntokan sa-banyak $66,730 yang di-minta bagi perbelanjaan Rombongan Malaysia ka-Afrika yang di-pimpin oleh Perdana Menteri Singapura.
Saya suka-lah mendapat penjelasan sa-takat mana-kah utusan ini menjalankan tugas-nya, dan sa-takut many-kah ke- jayaan yang di-perolehi, dan sa-takat mana-kah Perdana Menteri Singapura itu sendiri telah menggunakan ke- sempatan ini untok mempopularkan diri-nya di-kalangan2 yang tertentu dalam negeri2 yang di-lawati-nya, kerana saya takut bahawa sunggoh pun saya rasa bahawa lawatan itu berjaya, tetapi sa-bagai Perdana Menteri Singa- pura itu sa-orang yang kita tahu permainan politik-nya di-sine, takut telah dapat menggunakan kesempatan rmbongan ini untok kepentingan politik-nya sendiri.
Dalam Pechahan Kepala 38, per- belanjaan bagi Persidangan Kemun- chak di-Tokyo pada bulan Jun yang lepas.

Saya sutra mendapat jaminan daripada Kerajaan, kerana meman- dangkan bahawa pada masa persida- ngan ini di-adakan, kita telah meminta jaminan daripada pehak Indonesia supaya perundingan di-mulakan sa- telah pencheroboh2 Indonesia itu 2455 16 OCTOBER 1964 2456 berundor daripada tanah ayer kita.
Dan akhir-nya satu jalan tengah telah di- chapai is-itu satu token withdrawal pengundoran kechil sa-ramai 30 orang, kita terima sa-bagai tanda fiat baik Indonesia untok hendak berunding dengan kita, tetapi ternyata kemudian- nya pengundoran 30 orang itu sate pengundoran yang falsu, yang di-buat2, yang bohong, yang hendak mengabui kita... Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya`kub: On a point of order, ta' ada kena- mengena dengan sub-head itu.
Mr Chairman: Biar-lah berchakap itu menepati sa-bagaimana kehendak itu is-itu yang kita berchakap ini atas perkhidmatan yang hendak di-untokkan kerana wang itu.

Itu sahaja yang kita bahathkan tidak ada kena-mengena dengan itu.

Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Tuan Pengerusi, saya berchakap tentang Per- sidangan Kemunchak itu.
Jadi, hanya jaminan yang saya minta supaya kalau tidak betul2, kalau masa akan datang tidak ada betul2 tanda2 yang pasti ten- tang pengundoran pencheroboh2 yang ganas dari Indonesia itu, sa-barang perundingan tidak akan di-adakan.

Tentang Pechahan Kepala 32, per- untokan kerana perbelanjaan hantar- menghantar kawat dan sa-bagai-nya kapada utusan2 kita di-luar negeri.
Saya telah mendapat tahu pada sa-tengah ketika pehak pegawai2 Ke- menterian ada yang menghantar per- utusan kapada Kedutaan2 di-luar negea i dalam perkara2 yang biasa, kata-lah lawatan sa-orang Menteri, atau pun sa-orang pegawai tinggi, dengan code dan ini memakan masa pegawai2 di-sana, kadang2 code itu ta' danat hendak di-faham di-hantar baiek meminta di-hantar sa-mula code itu dengan memakan belanja yang hanyak.
Jadi, chuma saya mintaa dalam perkara ini, kalau hanya dalam perkara biasa, ta' usah-lah di-hantar dengan code, chukup-lah dengan open cable bagi perkara2 yang tidak di-classify, atau tidak rahsia.

Terima kaseh.

sadikit sahaja is-itu muka 25, Kepala 16, Pechahan Kepala 50 berhubong dengan Perbelanjaan Pegawai2 dalam Rombongan Mengunjongi Negeri2 Afrika.
Saya sangat bersetuju per- untokan yang di-minta dalam Pe- chahan Kepala ini, dan saya meng- uchapkan tahniah kapada Kerajaan kerana menghantar rombongan ini, sebab natijah-nya is-itu bagi pehak negeri2 Afrika telah memberi so- kongan kapada kita pada Persidangan Majlis Keselamatan Bangsa2 Bersatu dan juga pada Persidangan Negara2 Yang Berkechuali di-Kaerah.
Perkara yang menjadi mushkil, merunsingkan fikiran ra`ayat negeri ini dan merun- singkan diri saga item ini is-itu pemergian rombongan ini menyebut- kan Perdana Menteri Singapura.

Jadi, pada luar negeri di-Malaysia ini, sa- buah negeri yang merdeka ada dua orang Perdana Menteri.

Sebutan Perdana Menteri-lah yang saya run- singkan.
Oleh itu, saya mengharapkan dan ini menjadi satu keraguan kapada dunia, atau pun menjadi satu pan- dangan kapada dunia, bagi pehak Malaysia, sa-buah Kerajaan yang merdeka tidak mendalam dalam soal menyebutkan nama Perdana Menteri mi.

Kerunsingan ini, saya harap tidak berlanjutan.
Dari itu, saya mengharap- kan bagi pehak Kementerian yang berkenaan supaya Kerajaan kita berunding dan mengkaji sa-mula Perlembagaan kita dengan Kerajaan Singapura supaya di-tukarkan per- kataan Perdana Menteri Singapura itu bagi hendak mensesuaikan Singapura, kalau dia ta' mahu sebut sa-bagaimana di-Pulau Pinang, Ketua Menteri Pulau Pinang; di-Melaka, Ketua Menteri Melaka; di-Sabah, Ketua Menteri Sabah; dan di-Singapura sa-bagai sa- buah negeri yang tua, saya chadangkan di-ambil nama "Mangkubumi" is-itu satu ketua, dalam pentadbiran Kera- jaan tua zaman dahulu.
Jadi, bunyi- nya is-itu : "Yang Teramat Mulia Mangkubumi Singapura, Enche Lee Kuan Yew."

(Ketawa).

Sekian-lah, terima kaseh.

Enche ' Ahmad bin Arshad: Tuan Pengerusi, saya hendak berchakap Mr Chairman : Mangkubumi pun ta' masok dalam estimate mi.
2457 16 OCTOBER 1964 245 8 Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya`kub: Tuan Pengerusi, mengenai soalan dari- pada rakan saya Ahli Yang Berhormat dari sa-berang sana, sama ada research centre telah di-tubohkan dalam Mah y- sia ini, j awapan yang tel ah di-beritahu kapada saya is-lah belum ada lagi.

Untok menghilangkan salah sangka dalam soalan ini bila ternampak per- untokan yang bagitu banyak, dia fikir kita menghantarkan wang sa-banyak itu bulat2 kapada pergerakan.
Saya suka menerangkan lagi is-itu chuma perbelanjaan yang kita belanja berke- naan dengan perkara ini is-lah untok mengechap setem setem itu pula di- jual dan di-harap akan dapat berharga lebeh kurang menurut harga-nya, ada 30 sen, ada 50 sen, ada 25 sen jumlah- nya $52,500.

Perbelanjaan yang sa- benar daripada segi wang is-lah chuma harga kita mengechap setem.

Di-tingkat ini, saya ta' tahu berapa lagi harga dia.

Jadi, menurut daripada segi undang2 kita.


Artikal 97 dalam Perlembagaan kita, perkara ini terpaksa kita masok- kan saperti yang telah di-chadangkan mi.
Berkenaan dengan perkara2 yang telah di-kemukakan oleh saudara saya Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Trengganu Utara, dan di-sini juga ten- tang lawatan Perdana Menteri Singa- pura membawa rombongan ka-tanah Afrika ini, saya suka-lah menerangkan di-sini sa-bagaimana yang telah di-akui sendiri oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Trengganu Utara is-itu telah memberi kejayaan kapada kita untok memberi penerangan yang jelas kapada negara2 dalam Benua Afrika apa yang sabenar-nya Malaysia ini, dan bukan- lah lawatan itu di-gunakan, sa-takat yang kita ketahui, untok mempopular- kan Yang Berhormat Enche' Lee Kuan Yew itu sendiri.
Saya tidak perlu-lah hendak menj awab satu perkara yang telah di-timbulkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada sa-belah sini ber- kenaan dengan menukar gelaran Prime Minister kapada Ketua Menteri kerana itu tidak ada kena-mengena dengan estimates mi.

Satu lagi perkara yang telah di- sebutkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Trengganu ya`ani tentang hal lawatan Menteri2 itu kadang2 di-beritahu dengan chara "code tele- grams".
Saya suka menyatakan di-sini bahawa chuma khabaran2 yang hendak kita hantar yang tertentu sahaja is-itu "classified messages" (yang ada mengandongi sadikit rahsia yang kita tidak mahu perkara itu di-ketahui oleh orang ramai) di-kirim dengan "Code".

Kadang2 apabila khabaran "code telegrams" itu sampai, yang di-terima itu tidak sama dengan apa yang telah di-maksudkan oleh si-penghantar tadi.
Bagaimana pun, sama ada lawatan sa-orang Menteri itu patut di-beritahu dengan chary "code" ada-lah bergantong kapada keadaan dan lain2.
Kalau kita ketahui ada egen2 Indonesia yang berniat hendak membuat jahat dan beriktikad hendak melakukan satu perkara yang harus mendatangkan merbahaya ka- pada Menteri2 kita dalam satu2 tempat dan kena-lah Menteri kita ka-sana itu dan kita tidak mahu supaya per- khabaran itu dapat sampai kapada pehak yang menentang dan musoh kita, maka dengan kerana itu harus menyebabkan supaya lawatan itu tidak di-hebahkan terlampau sangat, ini dari segi security dan perkara yang lain terpulang-fah kapada pegawai yang berkenaan yang menentukan-nya.
Wan Abdul Nadir bin Ismail: Untok penjelasan sadikit.

Sa-orang Pegawai Tinggi daripada Pej abat Perj awatan melawat ka-luar negeri telah di-beri- tahu dengan "code" dan "code"-nya di-hantar balek kerana kurang terang.
Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya`kub: Itu-lah, Tuan Pengerusi, sa-bagaimana telah saya katakan tadi sama ada suatu perkara itu akan di-hantar dengan "code" atau pun tidak ber- gantong-lah kapada keadaan dan kepentingan, dan kita mesti-lah perchaya kapada pegawai kita bahawa kalau mereka itu rasa perkara ini tidak perlu dengan "code" mereka-lah yang lebeh tahu dalam soalan itu.
Satu perkara yang telah di-kemuka- kan oleh Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Trengganu tadi is-lah soalan j aminan berkenaan; dengan Indonesia bahawa kita tidak akan mengadakan perun- dingan dengan Indonesia sa-lagi mereka tidak members aminan bahawa mereka akan menarek balek gurila2 2459 16 OCTOBER 1964 2460 (guerilla) mereka itu, telah pun di- terangkan bertalu2 dalam Majlis ini oleh Yang Teramat Mulia Perdana Menteri kits dan Menteri2 yang lain.
I have not forgotten, Mr Chairman, Sir, some of the observations made by the Honourable Member for Batu concerning the visit to Africa.

He says what is really needed now is indeed a reorientation of our foreign policy.

That view at least by implication would avoid such a big sum of money being spent by this Government on visits to African States.
I do not have to go into detail in respect of this debate, Mr Chairman, Sir, because it has already been stated by the Govern- ment, by the Honourable Prime Minister himself and other Ministers, what our policy is and we are sticking to that at the moment.

We consider that the visit by this group to the African States has been a victory for Malaysia and the money which was spent on that was, in fact, worth spending.

Question put, and agreed to.


The sum of $1,130,074 for Head S. 16 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Heads S. 19-23 and 67V Enche' Tan Siew Sin : Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permission I would like to take Heads S. 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 and 67V at the same time, and I beg to move that the following sums be approved : Head S. 19 ... Head S. 20 ... Head S. 21 ... Head S. 22 ... Head S. 23 ... Head S. 67V ... ... ... ... ... ... ... $ 69,010 155,114,909 ... 323,561 ... 1,590 ... 33,010 ... 250,000 ... Total ... $155,792,080 Under Head 19, Treasury, three sub-heads are involved, viz, sub-heads 11, 43 and 45 and these are explained in paragraphs 42, 43 and 44 respec- tively in the Treasury Memorandum.
Sub-head 11 requires a supplement of $18,000 to cover the requirements of the Tariff Advisory Board and the expenditure incurred by those Govern- ment officers who visited New Delhi recently to examine the salary struc- ture of Government employees in India and who proceeded to Bonn thereafter in connection with double taxation negotiations.

Sub-head 43 is a new item which has been created in order to enable the Accountant- General to replace one receipting machine which had outlived its use- fulness.
The sum of $20,966 required for the purpose has been found from savings and a token supplement of $10 is now sought.

Sub-head 45 is also a new item created to provide funds to meet the expenditure incurred in connection with the Commonwealth Finance Ministers' Meeting held in Kuala Lumpur on 1st and 2nd September last.

Of the sum required for Head 5.

20, Contribution to Statutory Funds, amounting to $155,114,909, $150 million is sought as a contribution to the Development Fund.
This require- ment arose as a result of the very good progress made in executing the various projects of the Second Five Year Plan.

Four other transfers to statutory Trust Funds make up the rest of the supplement required for this Head.

The reasons for these transfers are adequately set out in paragraphs 46, 47, 48 and 49 of the Treasury Memorandum.

Turning next to Head S. 21, Royal Customs and Excise, an additional sum of $323,561 is required.
Of this amount, a supplement of $198,450 is necessary to cover additional expendi- ture for the Headquarters of the Comptroller-General of Royal Customs and Excise, Malaysia, since the approved provision has been found to be inadequate.

The amount is to supplement sub-heads 1, 2, 8, 10A, and 18 to 21.
$120,000 is needed to augment the Secret Service vote (sub-head 7) in order to meet the payment of rewards for the valuable information needed to intensify anti- smuggling operations between Penang Island and the mainland.

Sub-head 13 requires a supplement of a rela- tively small sum of $5,111 to meet the cost of a public address system at the Johore Bahru Customs Station 2461 16 OCTOBER 1964 2462 and a receipting machine.
I am sure the Committee will agree with me that a public address system at this Station is necessary in order to ensure that the public is not unnecessarily inconvenienced when they pass through this extremely busy Station, which collects such a large part of our import duty revenue.
Under Head S. 22, Comptroller- General of Income Tax, now re- named Comptroller-General of Inland Revenue, an addition of $1,590 to sub-head 6 is required to meet the cost of a few extra items of office furniture and equipment for the office of the Comptroller-General.

I now come to Head S. 23, Inland Revenue.

For sub-head 13, an addi- tional sum of $86,000 is required to meet the installation grants, housing and subsistence allowances of six Colombo Plan experts who joined the Department in 1964.
The existing provision against this sub-head is only sufficient to cover the allowances of two experts.

A token sum of $10 only is required as savings can be found from within the existing pro- vision under this Head.

The next item, sub-head 15, is a new item for $ 33,000 for the air-conditioning of the Inland Revenue Office in Malacca.

I will now turn to Head S. 67V, Miscellaneous Services, under which a new sub-head 17A is created for social welfare purposes.
Here, an amount estimated at $250,000 is required for Sarawak as a grant for social welfare purposes for the year 1964.

The making of this grant is in accordance with the provisions of Article 161c of the Federal Constitu- tion.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Chairman, Sir, may I seek a clarification on a few items of expenditure.
Since it is the Minister of Finance who has introduced these Heads, I hope he will agree with me, as he has been praised sky high this morning by his col- league, the Minister of Commerce and Industry it is he who stated that it is easier to squeeze water out of a stone than to squeeze money out of the hard-hearted Minister of Finance.
I refer to Head S. 19, paragraph 42, which states that this sum of money is required for the payment of air passages and subsistence allow- ances of Treasury and other officers proceeding to New Delhi to examine the salary scales of Government Employees .

Mr Chairman, Sir, this is one example of what I would say-I will not.

say "wanton waste of public funds" there has not been careful thought over it.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I think it was at the last session in July when we stated that we had to send somebody from Malaya to Bonn to buy crockery for Parliament House and there were quite a number of queries why we $5,000 to send should spend about an officer there, when this could be easily done by asking the samples to be sent here or ask our Embassy officials in Bonn to inspect the croc- kery.
For a similar reason, Mr Chairman , Sir, if we had to examine the documents in New Delhi it would only be far cheaper for these docu- ments to be sent from New Delhi to Kuala Lumpur rather than to send our officers to New Delhi unless, of course, such documents are labelled "Top Secret " by the Indian Govern- ment.

That I do not know : It is for the Minister of Finance to explain, Mr Chairman, Sir.

Mr Chairman , Sir, I come to Head 5.


20, paragraph 45, where this sum of $150 million is asked for, and the reason given is that it is due to the good progress of the Second Five- Year Plan.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I think in the past it has been usual to contribute only $15 ,000,000, for this purpose.

I stand corrected on this, Mr Chairman , Sir.

But this year we are asked to approve this unprece- dented amount of $150 million for such a purpose.
I just want a little clarification from the Minister of Finance , whether is it because of the failure to raise loans for such a, pur- pose, or is it that money has been thrown down the drain and conse- quently has to be recouped to such a large extent of $150 million from the Employees Provident Fund.

2463 16 OCTOBER 1964 2454 Mr Chairman, Sir, I come to Head S. 20, paragraph 46.

Here it is stated that an additional sum of $2 million- plus is paid to the Social Welfare Services Trust Fund.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I fully support such a request, and I wish to draw the attention of both the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Welfare Services that this is an urgent need for the poor sections of the population and that both the Ministers really should provide, I should think, much larger sums to meet the needs of the really poor people of this country.
To quote an example, Mr Chairman, Sir, the Minister of Health is well aware that when cases of tuberculosis occur and are discovered in the National Tuber- culosis Centre, very often these patients do not want to go for treat- ment and, perhaps, the Minister of Health may want to know "why".

The reason is a very simple one, Mr Chairman, Sir.

The poor patients cannot afford to be out of circulation, i.e.

to be out of work, for any length of time.


In other countries, for example Australia, the Government does provide a sizeable sum of money as help to the patients when they are out of circulation, when they are being treated.

Whereas in this country.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I am told that we aid such patients only to the tune of about $20 or $15 a month, which is totally inadequate.
If you consider that a trishaw rider has about six to seven children and if you ask him to go to hospital for treatment, how on earth is he going to feed his family?

Consequently, the poor patient has got no alterna- tive but to refuse to go for treatment and go on spreading the disease.

It is true, Mr Chairman, Sir, that today, in these days of advancement in medical science, patients need not be warded and patients can be given ambulatory treatment.
Nevertheless, the mere fact that he has to go to hospital for injection and, perhaps, wait for half-a-day for medicine means that he loses half-a-day or, perhaps, more of his earnings.

I wish to commend this fact to both the Honourable Minister of Finance and to the Honourable Minister of Wel- fare Services.

Mr Chairman, Sir, may I now come to Head S. 23, item 54.
We are told here that there are some Colombo Plan experts coming here, and this addi- tional sum is required to meet installation grants, housing and sub- sistence allowances, etc.

Mr Chairman, Sir, perhaps, I shall be very grateful if the Minister can give us the quali- fications of some of these so-called Colombo Plan experts because, if I remember rightly, the press has reported that some of these chaps are very young, round about 20-plus.
I fail to see how a person of 20-plus can be an expert in any branch of Government Service.

Dato' Dr Haji Megat Khas (Kuala Kangsar): Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to say that, in regard to tuberculosis, my Honourable friend across the floor has accused the Government Welfare Services of being unable to provide enough relief for tuberculosis patients when they require treatment.
This I would like to refute, because I think the Malayan Association for the Pre- vention of Tuberculosis is looking into this matter, and the scale of allowances given to patients requiring hospitali- sation is being reviewed right now.
I think to quote a figure of $10 or $20 per family is erroneous in the extreme because the relief, that is given by the M.A.P.T.B., which is one of the social services provided by the Government, is dependent on the number of dependants that the patient, the sufferer from tuberculosis, has got and it is given according to the length of time that he will be out of circulation and amount of help he needs in the house and so many other factors.
I think the Honourable Member must be a little out of date in his calculation.

Thank you.

Enche' Geh Chong Feat (Penang Utara): Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to speak on sub-head 21, item 51, that is in respect of improvement to the Secret Service.

Sir, it has quite often given the Honourable Minister of Finance the impression that most 2465 16 OCTOBER 1964 2466 of the people in Penang Island are engaged in smuggling.
Sir, that is what usually happens in any free port of any international centre where you have free movements of goods which are non-dutiable.

Sir, the most important thing is the efficiency of the Department and of the officers, in whom have been entrusted the sacred duty of protecting the nation's interest, performing and enforcing the laws.
If I may suggest it, Sir, in order to protect the good name of the majority of the residents of Penang Island -I am sure what I suggest is quite practical, and which I am sure will save the Department a lot of money in wild goose chasing is to find some strategic spots in which the Department can put up some radar equipment, like the type installed in boats, in strategic positions which can control the North and South channel, and with that I am sure the work will be more efficiently done and the impression that has been created in the mind of the Minister of Finance, that most of the people in Penang Island are involved in smuggling, would in due course be erased.
Thank you.

Dr Tan Chee Khoan : I rise to make a few observations on the remarks of my senior medical colleague across the floor.

I do know that he is intimately connected with the M.A.P.T.B., whereas I ani not.

Sir, all the time he has said that these allowances are under consideration.

And then he said that the figure of $20 that I have quoted is erroneous, but he has not quoted the proper figure.

Now, I can only speak from my own personal experience.
My patients come to me and, when I recommend them to the M.A.P.T.B.

for allowances, they come back and tell me, "Doctor, this is what I get $20."

I do know that the almoner goes and investigates into the circums- tances of the family : if you have 10 in the family, possibly, the almoner recommends more and if you have 5, the almoner recommends less.
But, Sir, whatever it may be, if the cake is not big enough, naturally what is divided is not enough, and that is why I have drawn attention of both the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Welfare Services to see that this is made enough, so that the tuberculosis patients will .

go for treat- ment, instead of what they are doing now, i.e.

they keep away from treat- ment.


Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise, first of all, to refer to page 19 of Command Paper 29, item 45, and to thank the Honourable Minister of Commerce and Industry for his expla- nation yesterday not to say that we are happy or satisfied with what has been done for we want some more for development in Penang.
However, Sir, I would like to point out that the information, which we obtained here in this House, was not obtainable from the Honourable Chief Minister at the State Legislative Assembly, and we wish that the Federal Govern- ment would communicate with the State Government so that the people in Penang can know what the Govern- ment has done.
Next, I would like to refer to page in regard to the matter 21, item 51 , which has been brought up by my friend from Penang Utara, and that is in respect of the provision of radar screens and so on.
However, while thanking the Government for making this provision one must at the same time presume that the Government, having decided to spend this large sum of money for further preventive action in Penang, certainly has in mind not to deprive the people of Penang from its free port status, at least , not for next year.
However, I would like to add to the comments made by my Honourable friend oppo- site that, apart from radar screens and so on , we would also need some fast launches to carry out effectively what we see on the screens.

Another point I would like to refer is to page 23, item 57, on the question of contribution to the Lady Templer Hospital, of which much has already been said.

All I want to comment on is that this is the type of contribution from the Government which we consider .

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2467 16 OCTOBER 1964 2468 Enche' Tan Siew Sin : Sir, on a point o order, we have not yet come to the Ministry of Health.

I am not yet the Minister of Health !

Mr Chairman : Yes, that comes under the Ministry of Health.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin : Mr Chairman, Sir, The Honourable Member for Batu does not seem to understand simple English at all.
If he had listened care- fully to my speech, he would have noted that what I said was that a number of Government officers had to go to New Delhi in order to examine the salary structure of Government servants in India in connection with our proposal to establish this Salaries Commission.

That team, in fact, con- sisted of officers from three Ministries headed by my Honourable colleague the Minister of Labour.
Subsequently, the Treasury officials in the team, and no others, had to go to Bonn, not to examine documents but to negotiate with the West German Government on a Double Taxation Agreement with that Government.

There is no question, therefore, of documents being exa- mined in Bonn.

The examination was on the salary structure of the Indian Government in New Delhi.
Unfortu- nately the Honourable Member for Batu not only misheard -I wish to put the most charitable interpretation upon his misunderstanding he not only misheard my speech but he mis- read the Treasury Memorandum as well and that must be a unique achievement in the annals of Parlia- mentary history.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Hear, hear !

Enche' Tan Siew Sin : He now asks me why it has been necessary to channel as much as $150 million to the Development Fund.
I agree that this is a very substantial sum, but far from castigating the Government he should congratulate us, because, as I have made clear in my address, this is an indication that progress under our Second Five-Year Plan has been much faster than originally expected.

That means that we have in fact made far more rapid progress in the imple- mentation and execution of the pro- jects in the Five-Year Plan for the past year; in fact, 1964, I think, will see the greatest progress made so far.
Of course, I should add that this is really a book-keeping operation; it only means that this sum has been transferred from one Government account to another Government account.

Dealing with the income tax experts provided for us under the Colombo Plan, the Honourable Member for Batu says that these officers are far too young to be really of use to us.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : I did not say that.

I made the observation that the newspapers carried such reports.

I wanted only a clarification.


I did not make that as a statement of fact.
Enche' Tan Siew Sin : I think the Honourable Member implied by his observation that youth was synony- mous with inexperience, if not igno- rance, and that, coming from a member of the Socialist Front, I think is quite surprising, because they always want to give us the impression that they are go-ahead, radicals, and so on, and it is certainly surprising to me that a leading member of the Socialist Front should regard age as synonymous with incompetence and ignorance.
In any case, I am satisfied, because I know many of these officers personally, that they are the most suitable whom we could have got for the job and they are doing a very fine piece of work.

Funnily enough, those I knew were quite old.

In fact, some of them were in their 60's and had to return even though I felt that their services would still be useful to us.

I would like to thank my Honour- able friend the Member for Kuala Kangsar for replying so effectively to the Honourable Member for Batu.
I cannot understand the observa- tions of my Honourable friend the Member for Penang Utara.

I do not think that I ever at any time, expressly or by implication, suggested that most of the people of Penang Island were (Laughter).
engaged in smuggling What I said, and this is quite correct, was that the incidence of smuggling between Penang Island and the Prin- cipal Customs Area on the mainland 2469 16 OCTOBER 1964 2470 is greater than that in most parts of the States of Malaya, simply because the whole of Penang Island is a free port area.

I would ask the Honour- able Member not to develop this inferiority complex and read more into my statements than I have put into them.
Enche' Geh Chong Keat : I would like to thank the Honourable Minister of Finance for clearing the air (Laughter).

That is the purpose of my making the statement in this House.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $69,010 for Head S. 19, the sum of $155,114,909 for Head S. 20, the sum of $323,561 for Head S. 21, the sum of $1,590 for Head S. 22, the sum of $33,010 for Head S. 23 and the sum of $250,000 for Head S. 67V ordered to stand part of he Schedule.
Head S. 24 The Minister of Health (Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin ): Mr Chair- man, Sir, I beg to move that a sum of $362,000, being for supplementary expenditure under Head S. • 24- $162,000 under sub-head 3 and $200,000 under sub-head 35 stand part of the Schedule.

The explanation for this expenditure is found in Com- mand Paper 29 / 64, pages 22 and 23, items 56 and 57.

I have nothing further to add.


Dr Tan Chee Khoon : The Honour- able Minister of Health is a very modest man, a man of very few words, and I shall try to emulate him.

I only wish to congratulate him for asking for these additional sums.

Honourable Members will remember that in the July sitting of this House I made an Adjournment Speech on the need for providing the Lady Templer Hospital with further sums of money.
I am very glad that both the Minister of Finance and Minister of Health have seen to it to increase the appropriation for the Lady Tem- pler Hospital to the tune of $200,000.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I hope that this additional sum will be continued in the years to come.

I hope the Honourable Minister of Finance will give us an assurance , because the Lady Templer Hospital is performing, as the Minister of Health knows, a much needed medical service in this country.

Question put, and agreed to.


The sum of $362,000 for Head S. 24 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Heads S. 25, S. 26, S. 28, S. 661, S. 67K and 67L The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Enche' Senu bin Abdul Rahman): Tuan Pengerusi, dengan persetujuan tuan, saya mohon per- untokan tambahan saperti berikut di-luluskan : Kepala S. 25--Kementerian Pene- rangan dan Penyiaran ... ... $ 9,000 Kepala S. 26---Jabatan Radio ... 43,330 Kepala S. 28-Jabatan Penerangan 450,565 Kepala S. 66H-Jabatan Penyiaran dan Penerangan, Sabah ... ... 27,900 Kepala S. 67K-Jabatan Penyiaran, Sarawak ... ... ... ... 77,080 dan Kepala S. 67L--Jabatan Penera- ngan, Sarawak ... ... ... 18,100 Tuan Pengerusi, saya tidak berhaj at hendak mengambil masa yang pan- jang bagi menjelaskan satu persatu keperluan2 peruntokan ini oleh sebab apa yang di-jelaskan di-dalam Com- mand Paper No.
29 Tahun 1964 di- hadapan kita semua rasa-nya sudah chukup terang.
Walau pun bagitu, saya suka men- -j elaskan sadikit bahawa peruntokan tambahan sa-banyak $9,000 untok pengangkutan dan perjalanan di- dalam Kementerian ini terpaksa di-buat oleh sebab saya sendiri, pegawai2 kita yang berkenaan, khas- rya Setia-usaha Kementerian dan Ketua Jurutera Peranchang, ada-fah di-kehendaki pergi ka-Sabah dan Sarawak dari masa ka-semasa untok menyusun dan mengawasi Jabatan2 di-sana supaya lebeh kemas dan ter- ator bagi menghadapi tugas2 baharu- nya sa-bagai Jabatan2 Kerajaan Pusat.
Pada masa Anggaran bagi tahun 1964 dahulu di-sediakan, anggaran yang 2471 16 OCTOBER 1964 2472 tepat mengenai peruntokan ini tentu- lah tidak dapat di-buat, oleh sebab2 yang terma`alum.

Tetapi ada satu perkara lagi yang suka saya sentoh sadikit is-itu per- untokan sa-banyak $450,656 bagi Gerakan Seranta dan Penerbitan.
Suka Gaya mema`alumkan bahawa Jabatan Penerangan-lah sekarang yang ber- tanggong-jawab penoh mengenai seranta atau publicity dan penerbitan baik untok kegunaan dalam negeri mahu pun luar negeri is-itu di- pejabat2 Pesurohjaya Tinggi dan Duta2 kita.

Peruntokan yang sedia ada sa- banyak $597,000 di-dapati tidak men- chukupi oleh sebab kita sekarang terpaksa melipatgandakan lagi kerja2 seranta kita ka-seluroh dunia.
Saya sedar pada sidang2 yang lepas a.da Ahli2 Yang Berhormat bersungut bahawa seranta kita ka-luar negeri tidak menchukupi dan berkesan.

mi ti dak saya nafikan, tetapi dengan per- untokan tambahan ini saya perchaya kita akan dapat memperhebatkan lagi seranta kita untok memberitahu kapada dunia tentang apa yang sa- benar2-nya berlaku di-dalam negeri kita ini elan juga mengenai pertikaian kita dengan jiran kita itu.
Sa-telah men- dengar cherita kita pula terpulang-lah kapada dunia menghakimkan siapa- kah yang benar dan siapa-kah yang bersalah.
Bagitu juga peruntokan untok negeri2 Sarawak dan Sabah di-mak- sudkan untok mempertahankan lagi Jabatan2 Penerangan dan seranta kita di-kedua2 negeri tersebut, terutama sa -kali dalam rangka peperangan urat sarap atau psychological warfare sa- bagaimana kita sakalian mengetahui bahawa kedua buah negeri itu ada-lah pada masa ini menjadi sa-bagai barisan hadapan dalam menghadapi pencherobohan Indonesia.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya mohon peruntokan2 bagi Kementerian Pene- rangan dan Penyiaran yang berjumlah $626,066 itu di-luluskan.

Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise only to refer to page 24, item 61-a sum of $22,000 being required to meet the expenses con- nected with the visit of Radio Malay- sia Orchestra to Sabah and Sarawak.

Sir, this is the type of expenditure which one considers a frill under this time of emergency.
Dato' Abdullah bin Abdulrahman (Kuala Trengganu Selatan): Tua n Pengerusi, saya menyokong penoh di- atas permintaan peruntokan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri yang berkenaan saperti yang terkandong dalam Com- mand Paper yang ada di-hadapan kita mi.

Saya suka berchakap sadikit me- ngenai Head S. 28 Bilangan 62, is-itu mengenai Publicity Campaigns and Publications.
Tuan Pengerusi, ; saya nampak pada masa sekarang ini Ja- batan Penerangan tidak sa-bagitu ba- nyak dan luas memainkan peranan-nya untok mempopularkan dan meninggi- kan taraf bahasa kebangsaan.
Bukan- lah saya berma`ana Jabatan ini tidak ada memainkan peranan langsong, te- tapi yang saya maksudkan dan ber- harap pehak Jabatan Penerangan Akan meluaskan dan melebarkan lagi per- gerakan dan kempen-nya untok mening- gikan taraf bahasa kebangsaan yang mana kita berharap dan yang mana menjadi keazaman Kerajaan kita untok di-jadikan Bahasa rasmi yang tunggal di-dalam tahun 1967.
Saya rasa ber- shukor dan menguchapkan tahniah dengan ada-nya peranan yang di-main- kan oleh pehak radio tempatan dan akhbar2 tempatan untok menyebarkan dan memberi bahasa kebangsaan di- tempat yang sa-wajar-nya.
Kita semua juga, Tuan Pengerusi, patut rasa bangga dan menguchapkan tahniah yang tinggi kapada akhbar sa- perti akhbar Utusan Melayu yang sa-lama2-nya telah berikhtiar dan ber- usaha untok meninggikan taraf Bahasa kebangsaan dan chuba meletakkan Bahasa ini di-tempat yang sa-wajar, sesuai sa-kali dengan keazaman Kera- jaan untok menjadikan bahasa rasmi yang tunggal di-dalam tahun 1967.
Dengan ada-nya peranan yang lebeh benar di-mainkan oleh Jabatan Pene- rangan di-dalam segala lapangan, Tuan Pengerusi, saya berharap orang ramai, khas-nya pegawai2 kerajaan makin lebeh insaf lagi bagaimana mustahak- nya belajar bahasa kebangsaan dan 2473 16 OCTOBER 1964 2474 menggunakan bahasa itu sa-Iuas2-nya.
Apa yang saya ma`anakan saya boleh beri chadangan, mithal-nya, mengeluar- kan banyak lagi risalah yang patut di-sebarkan, bukan sahaja kapada orang ramai yang menjadi ra`ayat ne- geri ini bahkan juga kapada pegawai kerajaan atau kaki-tangan kerajaan mengenai bahasa kebangsaan, sa-masa ada tayangan wayang gambar mithal- nya ada uchapan2 yang mengenai ba- hasa kebangsaan.

Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya`kub: Tuan Pengerusi, on a point of order.
Nampak-nya tima (theme) yang besar sa-kali kena-mengena dengan bahasa kebangsaan, bukan publicity campaigns daripada Jabatan Penerangan.

Dato' Abdullah bin Abdulrahman: Apa yang saya maksudkan, Tuan Pe- ngerusi, publicity campaigns and publi- cations yang bersangkut dengan bahasa kebangsaan.
Boleh jadi juga Yang Berhormat Menteri gunakan perun- tokan ini untok mithal-nya menghadapi konfrantasi dan lain2, tetapi saya suka juga menyentoh berkaitan dengan pub- licity campaigns and publications di- atas meluaskan dan meninggikan taraf bahasa kebangsaan.
Sekarang kita lihat, Tuan Pengerusi kalau tidak ada penerangan dan kempen yang sa-patut-nya di-buat oleh Jabatan Penerangan maka saya bim- bang bukan sahaja dari orang ramai bahkan di-antara pegawai2 Keraj aan juga akan lalai daripada betul2 mempe- lajari bahasa kebangsaan.
Jadi me- ngenai perkara ini, Tuan Yang di- Pertua, saya anjorkan dan saya memo- hon kapada pehak Kerajaan supaya mengeluarkan satu circular satu surat perkeliling kapada semua pegawai2 Kerajaan menegaskan is-itu kebolehan menggunakan bahasa kebangsaan itu satu daripada perkara2 (factors) yang menjadi timbangan di-dalam mengukor kechekapan sa-saorang pegawai Kera- jaan di-dalam menjalankan tugas-nya.
Apa; yang saya ma`anakan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kebolehan menggunakan bahasa kebangsaan itu patut di-jadikan satu2-nya chara untok mengukor kechekapan sa-saorang pegawai.

Mr Chairman : Itu ta' kena dengan tujuan perbahathan ini.

Perkara per- khidmatan yang di-untokkan ada kena-mengena dengan yang di-cha- kapkan itu.
Dato' Abdullah bin Abdulrahman: Jadi rengkas-nya, Tuan Pengerusi, saya berharap-lah kapada pehak Ja- batan Penerangan lebeh2 lagi sa-lain daripada menj alankan pergerakan pub- lication chawangan2 yang lain juga akan di-beri perhatian yang lebeh berat yang saya ma`anakan sudah ada pe- ranan yang di-jalankan tetapi lebeh lebar lagi di-kehendaki pergerakan dan pemakaian bahasa kebangsaan itu, terima kaseh.
Enche' Abdul Razak bin Haji Ilussin: Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka hendak menguchapkan tahniah dan sokongan kapada Kementerian ini di- atas permintaan-nya bagi di-luluskan oleh Dewan ini dalam perbelanjaan-nya yang telah di-ator lebeh dahulu.

Tetapi saya chuma hendak menyentoh sadikit, Tuan Pengerusi, Kepala 26, Pechahan Kepala 30 Lawatan Radio Malaysia Orchestra ka-Sabah dan Sarawak.
Saya memberi kepujian yang tinggi kapada kerja2 Radio Orchestra dan pegawai yang berkenaan, lebeh2 lagi kapada Menteri yang bersangkutan kerana menghantar rombongan Radio Malay- sia Orchestra ini ka-Sabah dan Sarawak Tetapi apa yang saya maksudkan pada hemat saya, sebab2 pada waktu lawatan Radio Malaysia Orchestra ini ka- Sabah, saya pun ada di-Sabah.

Jadi apa yang saya chakapkan ini is-lah pandangan dan perhatian saya kapada lawatan Radio Malaysia Orchestra itu sendiri.
Terutama sa-kali perun- tokan perbelanjaan ini tidak menchu- kupi, pada hal kesanggupan ahli2 rom- bongan Radio Malaysia Orchestra membawa jumlah yang lebeh besar ka- Sabah dan Sarawak itu ada kesang- gupan tetapi perbelanj aan peruntokan- nya terhad, ini-lah perkara yang saya sendiri fikir patut pada masa yang akan datang perbelanjaan yang besar patut di-berikan.
Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Pengerusi, satu mithalan-nya; saya boleh bagi chontoh dalam rombongan itu ada sa- orang menjadi announcer, kemudian lepas itu dia sendiri menyanyi.
Tentu^ lah perkara yang sa-macham ini tidak bagitu sedap mata memandang apa-tah lagi telinga mendengar, apa salah-nya 2475 16 OCTOBER 1964 2476 yang menjadi announcer itu sa-orang yang tertentu, kita jemput penari2 menari , lebeh2 lagi kerana hendak men- jimatkan belanja, kita minta pula penyanyi2 tempatan di-Sabah itu sen- diri menyanyi pada hal tujuan kita ia- lah rempertunjokkan kebolehan Radio Malaysia Orchestra pada mata ra`ayat Sabah dan Sarawak .
Saya puji kita menunjokkan bakat2 tempatan tetapi bukan waktu-nya dengan tujuan lawatan rombongan itu.

Lagi perkara yang lebeh2 dukachita, Tuan Pengerusi, pengishtiharan lawatan itu, panggong2 wayang tidak memberi kerjasama daripada Cathay Organisa- tion atau Shaw Organisation.

Fasal apa?

Patut-nya panggong2 itu mesti mengumumkan dalam panggong-nya, "Besok malam, atau tiga hari lagi rom- bongan dari Radio Malaysia Orchestra akan mempertunjokkan kapada tuan2 Tarian2 dan Penyanyi Terkenal dll.
"; ini satu diayah yang sangat baik untok merapatkan perhubongan muhibbah ra`ayat Sabah dan Sarawak dengan Malaysia ini .

Kita mahu menunjokkan ka-eratan kerjasama Kerajaan Pusat dengan Kerajaan Negeri tetapi pehak Cathay Organisation atau pun Shaw Organisation tidak ada mengambil berat dan kerjasama.

Dengar khabar- nya yang tidak sa-chara rasmi, pang- gong2 minta bayaran pula kalau pengu- muman itu hendak di-adakan.

Wah !

bukan main ini !


Sa -bagai satu pertu- bohan yang menchari untong , sa-kali sa-kala harus memberi derma-lah sa- dikit, apa susah-nya tunjok sadikit dua tiga bans Radio Malaysia Orches- tra akan mempertunjokkan pertun- jokan-nya tujuan muhibbah dalam sama2 negara dalam Malaysia mi.
Masa saya di-Sabah Pertunjokan di- adakan di-Jesseiton sendiri satu tern- pat yang paling istimewa , Bandar yang paling baik, pendudok yang paling ramai , ada lagi kerusi kosong ini me- nunjokkan tidak ada kerjasama dari- pada pehak panggong2 itu.

Jangankan kita minta penyanyi2 , seniwati2 dia berkhidmat di-dalam Radio Malaysia Orchestra itu, mungkin kita rasa, kita lebeh kechewa dari apa yang kita j angka.
Saya meminta kapada Yang Berhor- mat, tolong ingatkan sadikit , sebab itu masok satu gerakan subversive, mung- kin dengan sa-chara tidak langsong anjoran Kerajaan merapatkan muhib- bah antara kaum di-Malaysia ini, kelak akan gagal , atau lambat menchapai tujuan-nya.
Sa-lain daripada itu saya sutra meng- ingatkan dua tiga tahun yang lalu, masa kita sedang baik2; sedang kita mengikuti saudara kita Rombongan Radio Jakarta datang ka-Kuala Lum- pur, kita boleh nampak daripada hu- jong penjuru penoh dengan alat2 dengan mereka yang mengambil baha- gian , sedang Radio Malaysia , saya kira tidak lebeh daripada 20 orang.

Dan pada awal saya telah katakan, ini bukan tidak ada kesanggupan pekerja di- Radio Malaysia , tetapi soal duit dan belanja yang di-hadkan .
Nampak-lah kapada mata ra`ayat Sabah dan Sara- wak, bahawa Radio Malaysia yang paling kechil, orang tidak ramai pera- saan kaseh dan minat kapada rom- bongan itu tentu-lah kekurangan.

mi saya harap pada kali yang lain, Menteri Kewangan bermurah hati , tolong-lah tambah sadikit peruntokan-nya.
Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Pengerusi, saya bangkitkan masaalah Gerakan Seranta dan Penerbitan, Pechahan Ke- pala 10 dan Kepala 28, saya setuju usaha2 yang di-buat oleh Jabatan Penerangan ini untok memberi galakan dan sa-bagai -nya.

Tetapi chuba kita fikirkan , kita berhemat sadikit, dalam panggong wayang kita , lagu Negara-ku kita mainkan, penuntun keluar sahaja.
Kadang2 belum habis lagu itu di-bunyi- kan dia sudah keluar, apa guna kita benarkan kita nyanyikan lagu Negara- ku ini, kalau ra`ayat tidak menghor- mati, tidak usah kita nyanyikan, kalau tidak kita tutup pintu , sa-belum habis nyanyi itu, pintu jangan di-buka.

Orang tidak boleh keluar , senang sahaja.

Tetapi daripada kesan tidak ada kehor- matan kapada lagu Kebangsaan itu, lagu Negara-ku itu, jadi itu satu tugas yang besar, saya harap Kementerian Penerangan akan dapat memberi pene- rangan lebeh2 lagi.
Sa-lain daripada itu tolong bisekkan kapada Ketua Menteri Singapura, fasal bendera , ini pun satu kempen juga, di-bangunan Kerajaan (City Hall), ben- dera Persekutuan Tanah Melayu, lebeh 2477 16 OCTOBER 1964 2478 kechil daripada bendera Singapura.

Saya harap orang Petir ada mendengar.

Macham ta' ada kain hendak buat agak-nya.

Kalau orang memerhatikan perkara itu akan memberi ma`ana yang lain.

Kita mahu bendera Malaysia lebeh besar lagi daripada bendera yang lain di-dalam Malaysia ini.
Tolong-lah bisekkan, kalau dia lupa, di-ingatkan.

Sa-lain daripada itu yang akhir sa-kali dalam masaalah peropaganda ada di- sebutkan dalam Kepala 10 tadi, bila- kah subtitle di-ubah dalam Bahasa Kebangsaan dalam tayangan wayang gambar, bukan susah, perentahkan, kita mempunyai kuasa dan gunakan kuasa itu sa-lagi kita ada.
Kita boleh ber- lembut kalau orang boleh berlembut, saya perchaya kapada Menteri yang baharu ini yang sama botak dengan saya (Ketawa) saya beri penoh keper- chayaan yang dia boleti memerhatikan masaalah ini dan membuat sa-baik2 nya.

Perkara yang paling kechil yang tidak kita buat, tidak kita suroh dan tidak kita buat, nanti kuching ber- tandok, tidak akan ada.
Yang paling akhir, Tuan Pengerusi, saya minta Jabatan Penerangan dalam masa kempen, gunakan banyak Bahasa Kebangsaan, saya malas hendak menge- poskan balek surat2 Bahasa Inggeris, saya bukan anti-Bahasa Inggeris, tetapi saya sa-orang daripada yang memper- juangkan, sa-rupa juga Menteri Yang Berhormat itu memperjuangkan Bahasa Kebangsaan, kalau boleh tolong-lah buangkan sadikit Bahasa Inggeris itu.
Saya beri chontoh dalam Dewan ini, Tuan Pengerusi, ini yang lebeh dahulu sampai kapada saya, kalau tidak dapat kita atasi keluarkan-lah sama2, apa salah-nya.

Jadi itu-lah chontoh-nya tetapi saya perchaya masaalah ini boleh di-atasi, Sakian-lah sahaja, sa-belum saya dudok, saya memohon ma`af, Tuan Pengerusi.

Terima kaseh.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, saya minta izin hendak berchakap di-bawah Kepala 28, Pecha- han 10 is-itu Gerakan Seranta dan Penerbitan.
Yang Berhormat Menteri yang berkenaan tadi telah menyentoh sadikit sa-banyak berkenaan dengan kechergasan Kementerian-nya di- negeri2 luar.

Apa yang saya hendak sampaikan kapada pengetahuan Yang Berhormat itu is-lah satu perkara yang sa-layang pandang ada-lah luchu, tetapi boleh membawa sa-suatu yang lebeh daripada luchu itu is-itu kechergasan macham itu amat-lah kurang di-sabelah negeri2 di-Afrika.
Saya pernah berpeluang juga mela- wat di-sabelah Afrika, orange di-sana tidak tahu Tanah Melayu 1111, tetapi dia tabu Singapura lebeh banyak dari- pada Tanah Melayu, sebab Singapura merupakan Port of call bagi kita sa- belah sini.

Jadi Tanah Melayu ini tidak bagitu di-ketahui oleh mereka itu, sa- kali pun ada pertanyaan2 daripada Afrika Selatan yang asal juga orang Melayu yang lebeh kurang ada 500,000 orang di-sana.
Perkara yang saga hendak sebut itu ada-lah bukti kurang- nya kechergasan kita di-sana is-itu di-ketika lawatan Perdana Menteri Singapura di-negeri2 Afrika is-itu apa- bila sampai ka-sana mengikut surat2 yang saya dapat daripada kawan2 di- sana, is-itu ada orange di-sana yang sudah biasa melihat wajah Perdana Menteri Tunku Abdul Rahman, j adi apabila mereka itu membacha surat khabar Perdana Menteri Singapura maka mereka menyagka Singapura itu- lah Tanah Melayu atau pun Malaysia dan itu-lah Perdana Menteri yang da- tang dahulu sa-hingga ada yang ber- kata, "Tunku Abdul Rahman, looks younger than before clean and neat", dan orang ingat Perdana Menteri Lee Kuan Yew itu Tunku Abdul Rahman.
Jadi, berhubong dengan itu, Tuan Pengerusi, kegiatan itu patut-lah kita tambahkan lagi dan saya akan mem- ber terima kaseh lebeh lagi kalau sa- kira-nya peruntokan itu di-minta lebeh lagi untok kechergasan di-luar negeri, terutama sa-kali menjelang-nya Persi- dangan Afro-Asia tahun hadapan ini supaya peranan Malaysia kita ini dapat bermain lebeh berkesan daripada itu dengan chara kita mengadakan lagi, kalau tidak di-peringkat Kedutaan pun peringkat Konsul di-negeri2 di-sabelah Afrika sana.
Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah (Kelantan Hilir): Tuan Pengerusi, saya berchakap di-bawah Head 26 Radio dan Head 28 Information.

Saya beri tahniah kapada Yang Berhormat Men- teri kita yang baharu ini dan saya harap 2479 16 OCTOBER 1964 2480 mudah2an jawatan yang di-pegang-nya itu akan dapat menj alankan tugas2 yang lebeh balk lagi daripada yang lalu.
Saya telah nampak dan dengar sendiri banyak perubahan telah di-adakan dalam Radio, tetapi walau pun bagitu maseh ada juga banyak lagi perkara2 yang di-minta perubahan2 yang sesuai dengan bangsa kita yang telah mencha- pai kemerdekaan.

Dahulu dalam radio selalu cherita2 "hantu" dan lain2 lagi telah di-siarkan dan saya fikir perkara itu tidak-lah kena pada masa sekarang mi.
Juga sekarang nampak-nya Alham- dulillah, bachaan Quran dan banyak tafsir Quran yang di-siarkan, dahulu- nya jika PAS membacha Quran, orang berkata bahawa PAS hendak mengguna- kan Quran itu sa-bagai memanching undi ra`ayat dan sa-terus-nya.
Dan se- karang Alhamdulillah nampak-nya Kerajaan sendiri sudah menjalankan tugas ini, kita harap tugas itu hendak- lah di-jalankan dengan chukup ikhlas Kemudian lagi tentang perkara S. 28, dahulu kita ada dengar satu kenyataan yang telah di-siarkan dalam surat khabar bahawa orang Amerika berkata bahawa orang Melayu makan dengan "Chopstick".

Ini is-lah di-sebabkan information atau penerangan2 yang di- buat di-Amerika sana tidak chukup, jadi, orang Amerika kata orang Melayu makan dengan "chop-stick".
Baharu2 ini pula saya lihat dalam surat khabar, Kerajaan ada kirim 2 orang wanita ka-Amerika untok mem- ber penerangan yang lebeh jelas atas kedudokan orang Malaysia ini.

Tetapi 2 orang wanita yang di-kirimkan itu terdiri daripada bangsa lain, bukan orang Melayu.
Kalau bagini-lah polisi Kerajaan, maka tetap-lah kenyataan2, penerangan2 yang akan di-beri di- Amerika sana tidak-lah dapat mem- ber satu penerangan yang jelas, bahkan saya takut bukan sahaja orang Amerika akan berkata orang Melayu makan dengan "chop-stick", bahkan makan babi dan sa-terus-nya.
Kita harap mudah2an Kerajaan akan meng- adakan satu rombongan lain lagi yang aDat di-kirimkan ka-Amerika sana yang terkandong dari orange Melayu sendiri yang dapat memberi keterangan yang lebeh j elas di-atas kedudokan dan kehidupan orang Melayu dan orange lain lagi yang dudok dalam Malaysia mi.
Enche' Senu bin Abdul Rahman: Tuan Pengerusi, saya menguchapkan berbanyak2 terima kaseh kapada Ah112 Yang Berhormat yang telah memberi perhatian berkenaan dengan Kemen- terian saya Kementerian Penerangan dan Peny iaran.

Satu perkara yang saya suka menerangkan di-sini is-lah berkenaan dengan perhatian yang di- buat oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Tanjong yang dia ta' ada di-sini ia- itu berkenaan dengan Okestera Radio Malaysia yang kita hantarkan ka- Sarawak dan Sabah.
Untok ma`aluman Ahli Yang Berhormat itu, Okestera kita i elah mendapat sambutan yang sangat baik sa-kali dan telah berjaya dengan sangat besar, dan juga berke- naan dengan perbelanj aan, untok pengetahuan Ahli Yang Berhormat itu juga, perbelanjaan ada-lah lebeh kechil daripada pendapatan, dengan kerana dalam masa kita berjalan di- sana juga, Okestera itu juga telah mendapat kutipan2 (funds) daripada ra `ayat Sabah dan Sarawak.
Jadi, pendapatan ada-lah lebeh daripada perbelanjaan yang di-keluarkan oleh Okestera Radio Malaysia tersebut.

Jadi, tidak-lah menjadi satu kerugian apa lagi di-pandang dari segi negara kita yang kita berkehendakkan kerj a- sama yang rapat di-antara negeri2 Malaya dengan Singapura, Sabah dan Sarawak.

Kementerian ini memandang ada-lah sangat mustahak dari satu masa ka- satu masa, Okestera atau pun rom- bongan yang sa-bagini di-hantar ka-Sarawak dan Sabah dan juga dari- pada Sarawak dan Sabah datang ka-sini.
Ini-lah langkah yang akan di-ambil pada masa akan datang.
Sa-lain daripada itu, saya suka juga menguchapkan terima kaseh kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kelantan Hilir, Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Bachok dan Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Lipis dan segala perhatian2 yang di-buat oleh Ahli2 Yang Berhor- mat tersebut berkenaan dengan Kemen- terian Penerangan, sama ada Kemen- terian Penerangan pada masa ini tidak chukup memberikan penerangan 2481 16 OCTOBER 1964 2482 atau sa-bagai-nya, dalam negeri , perkara itu ada-lah saya ambil perhatian yang penoh , dan saya mengaku akan menjalankan sa-boleh2- nya dan sa -daya upaya segala per- hatian2 yang telah di-buat oleh Ahli2 Yang Berhormat itu.
Saya mengakui di-sini bahawa di- dalam sadikit masa ini, kita chuba memperbetulkan , memperbaiki dan mempertegapkan lagi j abatan2 dalam Kementerian Penerangan ini.

Jadi, dengan sebab itu, saya rasa ta' payah- lah saya menjawab satu persatu berkenaan dengan perhatian yang di-buat oleh tiap2 orang Ahli2 Yang Berhormat tadi .

Terima kaseh.

Question put , and agreed to.

The sums of $9,000 for Head S. 25; $43,330 for Head S. 26; $450 ,656 for Head S. 28; $27 ,900 for Head S. 66H; $77,080 for Head S .
67K and $18,100 for Head S .

67L ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head S. 30 The Minister of Lands and Mines (Enche' Mohamed Ghazali bin Haji Jawi): Tuan Pengerusi, dengan izin tuan, saya beruchap pada Kepala S. 30 Hal Ehwal Orange Asli yang ber- jumlah sa-banyak $10.

Penjelasan berkenaan dengan perbelanjaan itu a da-lah terkandong dalam Command Paper 29 tahun 1964 pada muka 24 dan 25.
Saya tidak akan memanjang- kan penjelasan lagi, dan saya pohon supaya Kepala ini di-jadikan sa- bahagian daripada Jadual.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $10 for Head S. 30 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Heads S. 34, S. 36, S. 37,; S. 40, S. 72, S. 6SF, S. 65J, S. 65M, S. 66J, S. 66K, S. 66R, S. 67G and S. 67T The Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice (Dato ' Dr Ismail): Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permis- sion I would like to take all those Supply Heads within the portfolio of my Ministry together, that is to say, Head S. 34, Registrar of Societies $7,700, Head S. 36, Prisons $129,106, Head S. 37, Commissioner of National Registration $79,100, Head S. 40, Royal Malaysia Police $4,490,177, Head S. 65F, Immigration (Singapore) $20, Head S. 65J, Prisons (Singapore) $10, Head S. 65M, Royal Malaysia Police (Singapore) $10, Head S. 66J, Prisons (Sabah) $229,968, Head S. 66K, National Registration (Sabah) $5,150, Head S. 66R, Royal Malaysia Police (Sabah) $1,540,939, Head S. 67G, Prisons (Sarawak) $68,710, Head S. 67T, Royal Malaysia Police (Sarawak) $2,785,179 and Head S. 72, Ministry of Home Affairs $1,205,300.
Sir, the reasons for the supple- mentary provisions required are as explained in Treasury Memorandum, Command Paper No.

29 of 1964.

I therefore do not propose to take up more of the time of the House to explain further.

Of course, I am ready to give further explanation if there is any obscurity.

Sir, I beg to move.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Chairman, Sir, may I ask a few questions on page 25 of the Command Paper, Head S. 36, Prisons, paragraph 66 (i).
Mr Chairman, Sir, I have already com- mented on the shortcomings of the Camp there and although I have been accused of being a snooper and a bully, I nevertheless commend to the Honourable Minister what I honestly felt were shortcomings.

I would like him, if it is possible, to explain to this House this additional expenditure of $117,150, how is it proposed to be spent on that Detention Camp.

Mr Chairman, Sir, may I now come to Head S. 37, paragraph 67, Printing and Stationery.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I wish to draw the attention of the Minister to the fact that ... .

Dato' Dr Ismail : Head, please?

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Head S. 37, page 26 of the Command Paper, para- graph 67 (i) this is for the printing of new citizenship certificates to be distributed to the component States of Malaysia.
May I draw the attention of the Honourable Minister that both I myself individually and my Party have written to his Ministry asking 2483 16 OCTOBER 1964 2484 for these forms to be given to us so that we can help people to apply for their citizenship.

In both instances the reply had been a flat "No".

I would like to have an explanation from the Minister concerned for this.
I wish to draw the attention of the Minister to the fact that if we cannot get these forms to help intending citizens, then what happens is that there are a lot of touts around these Registration Centres and as a result of which the ignorant ra`ayat goes to the office, gets the form, and although I had been assured by the Registrar of National Registration that these forms would be filled up in the office, that is not done.

I do not know whether the Minister knows about it.


I have my- self drawn the attention of the officer concerned to two cases which I brought to his office and said, "Here are two people that have gone to the office; nothing has been done for them.

They have come out and have been surrounded by touts."
And as such I would ask the Minister concerned to reconsider his decision not to give these forms to either political parties or to Members of Parliament, because we do not take any great joy in filling up these forms.

Members of our con- stituencies come to my dispensary and expected me to do something.

for them in this respect.


When I tell them that I cannot do so, they sometimes would not believe me, with the result that I have to produce the letter from the Ministry to show as proof that I can- not just help them in that direction.

To that extent, Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to commend this to the Minister and ask him to reconsider his decision on this.
Sir, next I come to Head S. 67G, Prisons, Sarawak, page 33 of the Com- mand Paper, and I hope I may be pardoned to speak a little on this which concerns the Personal Emolu- ments of the Detention Camp in Kuching.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I had been castigated by the Minister when I brought up this matter, and I made a quotation from, I think, the Straits Times.

I only wish to draw his atten- tion to my quotation.

The quotation reads : "Police Witnesses lied".


It was because of that that I drew the atten- tion of the Minister to punish those who are guilty.

He has explained that there would be a further investigation on October 21st, I believe, but perhaps he did not hear the quotation which stated distinctly, the Coroner himself stated that Police witnesses lied; and i} was because of that that I asked him to take disciplinary action against those concerned.
Dato' Dr Ismail : Mr Chairman, Sir, in connection with the observations made by the Honourable Member for Batu in regard to Head S. 36, I would like to say that the sum of $117,150 is required to meet additional expendi- ture on the running of the Detention Camp at Batu Gajah, consequent upon the increase of the number of detainees held in that Camp.

At the time when the 1964 Estimates were prepared, it was estimated that the daily average number of detainees would be 40.

The number has increased of late.


In fact, the average now is about 114.

Now, the amount totalling $11,956 is for the purchase of additional equipment and provision of additional facilities for the Malay- sian Prison Officers Training School at Taiping.

The Prison Department runs a centralised training course at this School for officers from Malaya, Singapore, Sarawak and Sabah.

Now as regards his observation on Head S. 37, I am glad to inform him that I have anticipated his request and has given.
direction to the Commis- sioner of Registration that Members of Parliament and Members of State Legislatures will be issued with these citizenship forms with certain condi- tions : that the forms will be issued in serial numbers; that Members to whom the forms are sent must acknowledge them; they must be responsible for the forms being filled in properly; and they must also be responsible that the forms when issued are not being abused, in the sense that people will not get two, or three, or even a dozen forms and start selling them to others.
Now, Sir, as regards his observation on Head S. 67G, I think he must have 2485 16 OCTOBER 1964 2486 misunderstood me.

I did not query the quotation that he got from the news- papers-I think it was the Straits Times and I think what the Straits Times reported is presumed to be true.

What I said was that that was the first inquest and the verdict of the Coroner was an "open " verdict.
Now, judging from that "open" verdict, is it reasonable for me , if I were to comply with the Honourable Member's request , to punish those people res- ponsible , because it has not been proved, although there were statements that the Police personnel did not tell the truth ?

The fact remains that the verdict was "open " and the magistrate did not say anything about the cha- racter of the Police personnel involved.
Further to that , you must remember that I mentioned that on the 21st of October a further inquest would be held.
So , as I said , I think it is unrea- sonable for the Honourable Member for Batu to request me to punish or take disciplinary action against the policemen or the police personnel responsible , merely on the statements issued in court, when the verdict of the court was an "open " one, and there was no recommendation, or no observation , from the Coroner saying that disciplinary action must be taken against the Police.

After all, I have to abide by the decision of the court.
I have to be fair to the civil servants, or to the public servants when dealing with their cases , especially when a case is being brought to court, and it is up to the court to recommend what sort of punishment should be given to these people .

Now, as I said, he must have misunderstood me.

Thank you very much.

Question put, and agreed to.


The sums of $7,700 for Head S. 34, $129,106 for Head S. 36, $79,100 for Head S. 37, $4,490,177 for Head S. 40, $1,205,300 for Head S. 72, $20 for Head S. 65P, $10 for Head S. 65J, $10 for Head S. 65M, $229,968 for Head S. 66J, $5,150 for Head S. 66K, $1,540,939 for Head S. 66R, $68,710 for Head S. 67G and $2,785,179 for Head S. 67T ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Heads S. 46 and S. 47 The Minister of Labour (Enche' V. Manickavasagam): Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permission, I would like to take Head S. 46 and Head S. 47 together, and beg to move that the sum of $133,150 under Head S. 46 and a token vote of $10 under Head 5.

47 stand part of the Schedule.

Explanation on the need for these amounts is given in pages 27 and 28 of Command Paper 29 of 1964.

Question put, and agreed to.


The sum of $133,150 for Head S. 46 and a token sum of $10 for Head S. 47 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head S. 49 Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya`kub: Mr Chairman, Sir, the only additional explanation I need give in connection with this Head S. 49 is that a token sum of $10 is required the whole provision is $7,300.

This is required to meet the cost of a new modern machine to speed up the efficiency of the Ministry of National and Rural Development.
I am sure that even the Honourable Member for Batu will agree with me that any measure towards improving the machinery of the Government speeding, up its tran- saction giving better service to the public is very commendable.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $10 for Head S. 49 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Heads S. 60 and S. 67U Dato' V. T. Sambanthan : Mr Chair- man, Sir, with your permission, I would like to take Head S. 60, $ 32,924 and Head S. 67U, $33,079, together.
The details are given in the Expla- natory Note in Command Paper 29 of 1964.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sums of $32,924 for Head S. 60 and $33,079 for Head S. 67U ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Head S. 69 The Minister for Welfare Services (Tuan Haji Abdul Hamid Khan bin Haji Sakhawat Ali Khan): Tuan 2487 16 OCTOBER 1964 2488 Pengerusi, saya mohon menchadang- kan supaya peruntokan tambahan sa- banyak $1,207 yang di-tunjokkan d -bawah Kepala S. 69 Kementerian Kebajikan Masharakat `Am, Pechahan Kepala 6 Perkakas2 Alat2 Keleng- kapan di-luluskan.

Tuan, sebab2 wang ini di-kehendaki ada-lah terkandong di-dalam Kertas Titah No.
29, 1964 muka surat, 35 dan saya rasa keterangan2 di-situ ada-lah jelas dan nyata dan tidak payah-lah lagi saya lanjutkan keterangan2.

Tuan, saya mohon menchadangkan.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $1,207 for Head S. 69 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Heads S. 71 and S. 75 The Minister for Local Government and Housing (Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh): Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permis- sion, I propose to take Head S. 71, Ministry of Local Government and Housing $450 and Head S. 75, (New) Civil Defence $2,352,119, as both items are related to my Ministry.

The reasons pertaining to these two items are given in pages 36 and 37 of Com- mand Paper No.

29 of 1964,, and I do not propose to go into the reasons further.

Sir, I beg to move.

Question put, and agreed to.


The sums of $450 for Head S. 71 and $2, 352,119 for Head S .

75 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Heads S. 66M and S. 66N The Minister of Transport (Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir): Tuan Pengerusi, dengan izin Tuan Pengerusi, saya memohon perbelanjaan Kepala S. 66M Penerbangan Awam dan Kaji- chuacha, sa-banyak $33,188 dan juga Kepala S. 66N Jabatan Laut, $42,150 supaya di-ambil bersama2 di-jadikan sa-bahagian daripada Jadual.
Kete- rangan2 Perbelanjaan Tambahan ini telah pun di-terangkan di-dalam Titah Kertas 29 / 64, tidak payah-lah saya sambong lagi.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $33,188 for Head S. 66M and the sum of $42,150 for Head S. 66N ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment : read the third time and passed.
THE CONSOLIDATED FUND (EXPENDITURE ON ACCOUNT) BILL Second Reading Enche' Tan Siew Sin : Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled "an Act to apply a sum out of the Conso- lidated Fund to the service of the year ending on the thirty-first day of December, 1965" be read a second time.
In accordance with the practice which has been followed for the past few years, this Bill is proposed in order to provide transitional authority for Government expenditure for the first three months of 1965, as it is possible that the annual Supply Bill will not have passed through both Houses and received the Royal Assent by the beginning of the new financial year.

This arrangement is in accordance with Article 102 (a) of the Constitution.
The Bill which is now before the House, therefore, provides for the issue from the Consolidated Fund of a sum of $326,229,200 which is calculated to provide for the service of Government for the first three months of the new year, as it is anticipated that the Supply Bill will have become law by then.

The Schedule to the Bill sets out the appropriations for the various individual services for this period.

Sir, I beg to move.

Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I beg to second the motion.


Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, Sir, we have just heard the Minister of Finance explaining to us the reasons for this request, and I notice he has taken care to inform this House that under Article 102 (a) of the Constitu- tion the Government has power to do so.
2489 16 OCTOBER 1964 2490 Mr Speaker, Sir, while I do not wish to take too much time of this House, I only wish to say that, though in the past it might have been the practice to approve such a Bill and I can see the necessity of it this year and, perhaps, next year -I do hope that in the years to come, when the Treasury is a little more efficient, we will not have the necessity for such a Bill.

Enche' Tan Slew Sin : Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to differ from the Honourable Member for Batu.
This procedure is not an unusual one.

It is adopted in nearly every Parliament in the world as a matter of precaution in order to ensure that, if the annual Supply Bill does not receive the Royal Assent by the end of the financial year, it will still be possible for the Government to carry on.
In fact, this is a mere formality or, as I have said before, a mere precaution; and as far as we are concerned, we intend to carry on with it, and I certainly cannot accept the aspersions cast upon the Treasury by the Honourable Member for Batu.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.

House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

Bill considered in Committee.


(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment : read the third time and passed.

THE WORKMEN'S COMPENSA- TION (AMENDMENT) BILL Second Reading The Minister of Labour (Enche' V. Manickavasagam): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled "an Act to amend the Workmen's Com- pensation Ordinance, 1952" be read a second time.
The amendment to Section 32 of the Ordinance in clause 2 of the Bill is designed to enable officers of trade unions or other organisations approved by the Minister, such as the Malayan Trades Union Congress, to appear on behalf of workers or employers in proceedings before the Arbitrator under the Workmen's Compensation Ordi- nance.
The present section 32 (1) of the Ordinance only allows representation by the following : (a) An Advocate and Solicitor (b) A "Commissioner" under the Workmen's Compensation Or- dinance viz, a Labour Officer (c) A representative of the employer (d) An insurer (e) An agent of an Insurance Company.
This amendment to enable officers of trade unions or similar organisations to appear on behalf of employers or workers in workmen's compensation cases is pursuant to a request made by both sides in the National Joint Labour Advisory Council and is designed to ensure that parties con- cerned in the workmen's compensation case obtain the best assistance without much expense.
It would also enable the organisations to which workers and employers belong to make a positive contribution to the well-being of their members by permitting officers of such organisations who are familiar with the Ordinance and the circumstances of employment injury to appear on their behalf before the Arbitrator, who is a President of Sessions Court.
Section 25 of the former Workmen's Compensation Enactment which was replaced by the present Workmen's Compensation Ordinance, 1952 pro- vided that an officer or member of a society of which a person involved in a workmen's compensation case or any other person as approved by the Commissioner could appear in a workmen's compensation case.

This provision was omitted when the Enactment was replaced by the new Ordinance.
The amendment to Section 35 in clause 3 of the Bill seeks to give 2491 16 OCTOBER 1964 2492 discretionary powers to an Arbitrator to accept as evidence of the number of dependants and the extent of depen- dency, the certificate of a competent authority in foreign territories.
At present, in cases where an employee is fatally injured during employment the Commissioner for Labour normally makes inquiries about the deceased workmen's dependants in India, if the workmen was an Indian, through the Indian High Commission in Kuala Lumpur, which obtains certificates of dependants and their dependency from the Workmen's Compensation Com- missioner of the area concerned in India.
Such certificates received from India or elsewhere, if found in order, are accepted by the Commissioner under Section 10 (5) of the Workmen's Compensation Ordinance for the purposes of computing the amount of compensation due.

However, a similar discretionary power is not vested in the Arbitrator under Section 35 of the Workmen's Compensation Ordinance to accept the certificates of dependants from competent authorities in other territories, where the dependants are resident.
The certificates are issued by Commissioners for Workmen's Com- pensation in these territories, who hold positions equivalent to the Commis- sioners under the Workmen's Compen- sation Ordinance in Malaya and may, at the discretion of the Arbitrator, be accepted as sufficient evidence of the existence of the dependants and their dependency.
Due to the lack of this discretionary power, a few cases did occur where the Arbitrator found it difficult to accept the certificates provided by Commis- sioners from other territories as evidence.

It is, therefore, now proposed that the Arbitrator should be vested with discretionary powers similar to those given to the Commissioner under Section 10 (5) of the Ordinance, to accept as evidence certificates of dependants and their dependency obtained from competent authorities in foreign territories.
Sir, I beg to move.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to congratulate the Minister of Labour for bringing up this Bill, because I do know that in the past -I stand corrected on this an officer of the M.P.I.E.A.

was allowed to appear on behalf of the employers whereas officers of the trade unions or the M.T.

U.C.

were not allowed to do so.


I also believe that there has been representation by the members of the Bar against such a procedure.

This new legislation will see to it that workers can have representation as well.

Mr Speaker, Sir, at the same time, I wish to draw the attention of the Minister concerned to the totally inadequate compensation for loss of life or of earnings under the present Workmen's Compensation Ordinance.
I do commend to him that there should be a complete review of this question of workmen's compensation in the light of the new circumstances.

This law was brought up when money was very small and it was quite adequate at that time.

In these days when there has been some inflation, the compen- sation I think the maximum is round about $7,200 , is totally inadequate, and I commend to the Minister to review the whole question of work- men's compensation.
Enche' Tai Kuan Yang (Kulim Bandar Bharu): Mr Speaker, Sir, I support the amendment introduced in this House for the following reasons.

The lay-out of the original law appears to be a bit confused in certain respects, if read hurriedly.

The amend- ment now sets out concisely and clearly as to the parties eligible to appear before an Arbitrator.
What strikes me as of fundamental importance in the amendment is the provision whereby a trade union officer, or an officer of employer's organisation, as approved by the Minister of Labour, is permitted to appear on behalf of the workman or employer, as the case may be, in proceedings before an Arbitrator.
This certainly is of immense help and benefit to the workman or employer when either party feels that it cannot 2493 16 OCTOBER 1964 2494 afford to engage a lawyer to represent them in the Sessions Court proceedings.

I also see that the choice is left entirely to the party concerned to decide whether or not the engagement of counsel would help its case.

The freedom of choice is there all the time both for the workman and the employer.
Mr Speaker, Sir, with reference to the Certificate of Dependency, I fully support the amendment, in that, if the Commissioner is allowed to accept such a certificate as evidence, it automatically follows that the Arbitra- tor should similarly be empowered to accept such a certificate as evidence of dependency.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank both Honourable Members for the support they have given to this Bill--the Honourable Member for Batu and the Honourable Member, who has just spoken.

This Bill, of course, is brought in to ensure that trade union leaders and representatives from trade unions, just as the representatives of employers' organisations, are also entitled to appear before an arbitrator.
Sir, with regard to the observations made by the Honourable Member for Batu in connection with the suns of money that is being given out as compensation, while agreeing that a review is necessary in view of the present earning capacity of workers, I cannot agree with him on one thing that is that money has become small.

Sir, I must say that, thanks to the Alliance Government, the dollar of our Malayan currency is as strong as ever.

(Applause).
(Applause).

However, I can assure the Honourable Members that the subject of compensation under the Workmen's Compensation Ordinance needs to be reviewed and I am looking into it.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1, 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment : read the third time and passed.
THE MERCHANT SHIPPING (AMENDMENT) BILL Second Reading Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled "An Act to amend the Merchant Shipping Ordinance, 1952," be read a second time.

The main purpose of this Bill is to make provisions for the establishment of a Central Mercantile Marine Fund covering all ports in the States of Malaya.
At present there are three separate Funds, established under sub- section (7) of section 467 of the Mer- chant Shipping Ordinance, 1952, for the ports of Penang, Port Swettenham and Malacca.

Each of these Funds derives its revenue from Sunday labour fees.

The monies of these Funds can only be utilised at the respective port to provide amenities and facilities to sea-men but cannot be utilised to supplement the small collection made in respect of the Mercantile Marine Funds set up at a small port.
Thus, with the establishment of a Central Mercantile Marine Fund, equitable distribution of the monies in the Fund can be made to all ports to which section 467 applies.

A Central Fund will also obviate the necessity of having several committees each administering its own Fund.

Clause 2 of this Bill also seeks to replace the definition of "Sunday" by that of "weekly holiday", in order to cover those cases of ports in States where Friday is a weekly holiday.
Clause 3 of the Bill is a saving clause which provides for the transfer of all monies in the existing Funds to the Central Mercantile Marine Fund.

Sir, I beg to move.

House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

Bill considered in Committee.

Tuan Haji Abdul Hamid Khan: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya menyo- kong.

2495 16 OCTOBER 1964 2496 Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.
House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

Bill considered in Committee.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1 to 3 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment : read the third time and passed.

THE COURTS OF JUDICATURE (AMENDMENT) BILL, 1964 Second Reading Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya`kub: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled "An Act to amend the Courts of Judicature Act, 1964," be read a second time.
The combined effect of section 30 and section 48 of the Act, as they stand, is to deprive the High Court or any subordinate Court of Jurisdic- tion to decide any question as to the effect of any provision in the Constitu- tion which arises in any proceedings before it.

Any such question existing under the provisions must, therefore, be referred to the Federal Court for decision.
These provisions, Mr Spea- ker, Sir, conflict with the provisions of Article 128 (2) of the Constitution, which confer jurisdiction, but not, however, exclusive jurisdiction, on the Federal Court to decide such consti- tutional questions arising in the pro- ceedings in other Courts.

The Bill now seeks to remedy the position by giving a discretion to the High Court or a subordinate Court to refer any such question to the Federal Court.
Section 30 requires reference to be made by a subordinate Court to the High Court which, in turn, under section 48, transmits the question to the Federal Court.

Article 128 (2) of the Constitution provides that the exercise of the jurisdiction of the Federal Court should be subject to any rules of court regulating that jurisdiction, and it is advisable to treat the provisions of section 30 in this respect as rules of court, and pro- vision has been made in Clause 3 (b) of the Bill accordingly.
This is parti- cularly so in view of the fact that the expression "rules of court" in Article 128 (2) of the Constitution has not been defined, and the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance, 1948, does not apply for the interpretation of this expression.

Sir, I beg to move.

Enche' Senu bin Abdul Rahman: Sir, I beg to second.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.
House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

Bill considered in Committee.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1 to 4 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment : read the third time and passed.

ADJOURNMENT Motion Dato' V. T. Sambanthan : Sir, I beg to move that this House do now adjourn.

Dato' Haji Sardon : Sir, I beg to second the motion.

UCHAPAN PENANGGOHAN MEMBAIKI JALAN KEPONG (JALAN RAYA BAGI KAWA- SAN2 KUALA SELANGOR DAN TG.
KARANG) Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-telah saya mende- ngar uchapan Yang Berhormat dari Trengganu tadi untok meninggikan dan menggunakan bahasa kebangsaan, maka saya pada.

malam ini hendak memberi uchapan penanggohan saya dalam bahasa kebangsaan juga (Tepok).

2497 16 OCTOBER 1964 2498 Tuan Yang di-Pertua , saya ber- chadang hendak berchakap berkenaan dengan jalan Kepong yang sekarang telah menjadi jalan raya bagi ka- wasan2 Kuala Selangor dan Tanjong Karang.
Lalu lintas di-jalan ini telah bertambah sebok dan beberapa kema- langan parah telah berlaku terutama sa-kali di-tempat yang telah menjadi perangkap2 maut .

Saya menumpukan perhatian di-bahagian jalan raya dari Kampong Batu dan Kampong Kepong.

Di-bate lima suku, Jalan Kepong, ada sa-buah jambatan yang bernombor 63 yang tersangat sempit dan terlindong daripada lalu lintas dan menyebabkan beberapa kemalangan telah berlaku.

Beberapa orang termasok yang ber- jalan kaki telah mati.
Kalau di-pan- dang kapada susoran di-jambatan itu, maka nyata-lah bahawa beberapa kemalangan telah berlaku di-situ.

Sunggoh pun jambatan itu sangat merbahaya dan jalan itu sempit tetapi Kerajaan tidak pun mengambil apa2 tindakan untok membaiki jalan itu dan membesarkan jambatan itu.

Oleh yang demikian saya mengeshorkan supaya Kerajaan mengambil langkah dengan segera menghapuskan perang- kap maut itu.
Jauh sadikit ka -atas di-jalan itu is-itu di-sapanjang batu 6 dengan batu 7 sentiasa banjir dan jalan di-situ menghalang lalu lintas dan juga me- nyebabkan beberapa kesukaran kapada Satu daripada pendudok2 di-situ .

sebab-nya is-lah jalan itu rendah.

Tetapi sebab-nya yang besar is-lah kechuaian penyelenggaraan jambatan itu dan parit2 jalan raya yang sentiasa penoh dengan senang-nya.
Dengan tertuboh -nya beberapa bahagian bangunan perusahaan , pant di-jalan raya itu hampir2 hapus hingga menye- babkan ayer tidak dapat mengalir.

Sa-lain dari itu ayer dari lombong2 bijeh yang ada di-daerah itu mengalir ka-situ juga.

Lombong2 itu tidak mengendahkan perjalanan ayer itu.

Oleh sebab kekurangan pant dan tali ayer di-kawasan ini-lah yang menye- babkan ayer itu hanya dapat mengalir ka-sungai melalui parit2 di-tepi jalan itu sahaja .
Kemudian sungai2 itu Pula surut tidak beberapa lama kemudian- nya.

Penyelenggaraan pant di-tepi j alan itu ada-lah sa-mata2 tanggong- jawab pehak Jabatan Kerja.

Raya.

Tetapi pehak Jabatan Kerja Raya ha- nya mengendahkan parit2 di-tepi jalan itu sahaja dan tidak memperdulikan soal parit2 yang di-sekeliling-nya itu- lah yang menyebabkan banjir di-jalan2 itu.
Oleh yang demikian saya berharap pehak Jabatan Kerja Raya akan me- riarek perhatian kapada pehak2 yang berkuasa yang lain saperti Majlis Tempatan dan pehak Jabatan Pant dan Tali Ayer kapada keadaan yang burok itu.

Tetapi, pehak Jabatan Kerja Raya, saya fikir telah mengelak- kan kerja dan tanggong-jawab-nya dan akhir-n2 a menyebabkan bukan sahaja orang ramai menderita bahkan jalan2 itu juga menjadi lebeh burok dan rosak.
Saya tahu bahawa Kerajaan seka- rang ada membuat longkang di-sabelah j alan raya itu tetapi saya fikir long- kang ini akan penoh sa-mula dengan tanah tidak berapa lama Iagi.

Saya fikir untok mengatasi-nya is-lah pem- benaan pant concrete yang besar2 di-sapanjang di-kedua belah jalan itu supaya tidak terkambus dan tumpat.

Tambahan pula jalan itu sendiri sen- tiasa di-lalui bebanan2 yang berat dan beberapa perusahaan dan penempatan telah di-bena dan menggunakan jalan itu juga.
Sa-benar-nya jalan itu bukan untok kegunaan yang berate oleh yang demikian jalan itu harus-lah di-baiki dan di-bena untok orange yang ber- jalan kaki dan penunggang2 basikal kalau hendak menyelamatkan beberapa banyak nyawa.

Oleh yang demikian saya merayu kapada pehak Jabatan Kerja Raya supaya memberi perhatian yang berat dan segera4 atas soal ini dengan kerjasama pehak2 lain yang berkenaan, sakian-lah sahaja, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, (Tepok).
Dato' Y. T. Sambanthan: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, berkenaan dengan jambatan di-Batu Enam Suku jambatan ini tidak berapa baik tetapi dreber2 yang membawa kereta di-situ kena-lah berjaga2 (Ketawa).

Jalan raya di-situ ada juga chadangan dari Kementerian saya hendak membuat jalan baharu Diplomatic Enclav ka-Batu Village.

Berkenaan dengan hale yang lain is-itu fasal pant, Tuan Speaker, pant 2499 16 OCTOBER 1964 2500 ada-lah bukan di-dalam Kementerian saga tetapi di-dalam Kementerian D.I.D.
dan juga di-dalam Local Council.

Jikalau Yang Berhormat mahukan pant ini di-baiki lagi, Yang Berhormat hendak-fah menulis surat kapada Department D.I.D.

(Tepok).

Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada-kaki Menteri D.I.D.

di-sini.

Mr Speaker : The House is adjourned sine die.

Adjourned at 8.20 p.m.