Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698934408825.pdf (Malaysia)
Volume V Wednesday No.

41 ( 8th January, 1964 PA RLI AMENTA RY D E B AT ES DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) OFFICIAL REPORT CONTENTS BILL: The Supply Bill, 1964-- Committee of Supply (Twelfth Allotted Day)- Heads S. 39, S. 40; S. 65M; S. 66R and S. 67T [Col. 4429] [Col. 4486] [Col. 4547] Heads S. 41-S. 44; Heads S. 65H, S. 65N, S. 65P; S. 66Q; S. 67Q and S. 67R [Col, 4474] Heads S. 45-5.
48; S. 65E; S. 66L; S. 67C and S. 67D Heads S. 49-S. 53; S. 65Q; S. 67H and S. 67P DI-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG, A.M.N., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN KUALA LUMPUR 1964 MALAYSIA DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report Fifth Session of the First Dewan Ra`ayat Wednesday, 8th January, 1964 The House met at Ten o'clock a.m.
PRESENT : The Honourable Mr Speaker, DATO' HAJI MOHAMED NOAH BIN OMAR, P.M.N., S.P.M.J., D.P.M.B ., P.I.S., J.P. „ the Deputy Prime Minister , Minister of Defence and Minister of Rural Development, TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N.

(Pekan).

„ the Minister of Internal Security and Minister of the Interior, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N.

(Johor Timor).

P.M.N.

(Pontian Utara).


„ the Minister of Transport , DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR, „ the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR BIN JOHARI (Kedah Tengah).

„ the Minister of Labour and Social Welfare , ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah).

„ the Minister of Health , ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAM TALIB (Kuantan).

(Larut Selatan).
(Larut Selatan).

„ the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SwEE AUN, J.P. „ the Minister of Education , TUAN HAM ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT ALI KHAN, J.M.N., J .P.

(Batang Padang).

the Minister of Sarawak Affairs, DATO' TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.D.K.

(Sarawak).

„ the Assistant Minister of Labour and Social Welfare, ENCHE' V. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K.

(Klang).

„ the Assistant Minister of Information and Broadcasting, DATU MOHAMED ISMAIL BIN MOHAMED YUSOF, P.D.K.

(Jerai).
(Jerai).

„ the Assistant Minister of Rural Development (Sarawak), ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN BIN YA`KUB (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Kuala Langat).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N.

(Melaka Utara).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN, K.M.N., P.J.K.

(Krian Laut).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HUSSIN (Lipis).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN OSMAN ( Sungai Patanl).

„ TOH MUDA HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI ABDUL RAOF (Kuala Kangsar).
4423 8 JANUARY 1964 4424 The Honourable TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD.

SALLEH, A.M.N., P.I.S.

(Segamat Utara).

„ TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kota Bharu Hilir).

„ ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N.

(Muar Utara).

„ ENCHE' AHMAD BIN MOHAMED SHAH, S.M.J.

(Johor Bahru Barat).

„ TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID (Seberang Utara).

„ ENCHE' AHMAD BIN HAJI YUSOF, P.J.K.

(Krian Darat).

„ ENCHE' AWANG DAUD BIN MATUSIN (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).

„ DR BURHANUDDIN BIN MOHD.

NOOR (Besot).


„ ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG (Sarawak).

„ PENGARAH BANYANG (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N.

(Kluang Selatan) .

„ ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).

„ ENCHE' CHAN SWEE HO (Ulu Kinta).

„ ENCHE' CHIA THYE POH (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' CHIN SEE YIN (Seremban Timor).

„ ENCHE' V. DAVID (Bungsar).

„ ENCHE' DAGOK ANAK RANDEN (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK TANGKUN (Sarawak).

„ DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N.

(Jitra-Padang Terap).


„ DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' GAMING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N.

(Penang Utara).

„ DR GOH KENG SWEE (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N.

(Kapar).

„ ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD.

YUNUS, A.M.N.

(Kulim Utara).

„ ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Baling).

„ ENCHE' HARUN BIN PILUS (Trengganu Tengah).

„ TUAN HAJI HASAN ADLI BIN HAJI ARSHAD (Kuala Trengganu Utara).

„ TUAN HAJI HASSAN BIN HAJI AHMAD (Tumpat).


„ ENCHE' HASSAN BIN MANSOR (Melaka Selatan).

„ ENCHE' HO SEE BENG (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' STANLEY HO NGUN KHIU, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

„ ENCHE' HONG TECK GUAN (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN TO' MUDA HASSAN (Raub).

„ ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN Mom.

NOORDIN, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Pant).

„ TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu).

„ ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah).

„ ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan).


„ ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN HAJI KASSIM (Kuala Trengganu Selatan) .

„ PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN (Sarawak).

4425 8 JANUARY 1964 4426 The Honourable ENCHE' JHUMAH BIN SALIM (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' KANG KOCK SENG (Bata Pahat).

„ ENCHE' K. KARAM SINGH (Damansara).

„ CHE' KHADIJAH BINTI MOHD.

SIDEK (Dungun).

„ ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' KOW KEE SENG (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' LEE SAN CROON, K.M.N.

(Kluang Utara).


„ ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N.

(Sepang).

„ ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

„ ENCHE' CHARLES LINANG (Sarawak).

,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ENCHE' LIM HUAN BOON (Singapore).

ENCHE' LIM Joo KONG, J.P. (Alor Star).

ENCHE' LIM KIM SAN (Singapore).

ENCHE' LIU YOONG PENG (Rawang).

O. K. K. HAJI MAHALI BIN O. K. K .

MATJAKIR, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson).

ENCHE' MOHAMED BIN UJANG (Jelebu -Jempol).


ENCHE' MOHAMED ABBAS BIN AHMAD (Hilir Perak).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA (Pasir Puteh).

ORANG TUA MUHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHD.

DUN BIN BANIR, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHAMED NOR BIN MOHD.

DAHAN (Ulu Perak).

ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N.

(Temerloh).

TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan).

TUAN HAJI MUHAMMAD SU`AUT BIN HAJI MUHD.

TAHIR (Sarawak).
TAHIR (Sarawak).

NIK MAN BIN NIK MOHAMED (Pasir Mas Hilir).

ENCHE' NG ANN TECK (Batu).

TURN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Tanah Merah).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Perlis Utara).

ENCHE' ABANG OTHMAN BIN ABANG HAJI MOASILI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Barat).

ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SEAR TENG NGIAB (Muar Pantai).

ENCHE' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM (Menglembu).

ENCHE' SNG CHIN JOO (Sarawak).

TUAN SYED ESA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S.

(Batu Pahat Dalam).
(Batu Pahat Dalam).

TUAN SYED HASHIM BIN SPED AJAM, A.M.N., P.J.K., J.P. (Sabak Bernam).

(Johor.

Tenggara).

TUAN SPED JA`AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, J.M.N.

ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN AL!, P.J.K.

(Larut Utara).

4427 8 JANUARY 1964 4428 The Honourable ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J .

P. (Bagan) .

„ ENCHE' TAN PHOCK KIN (Tanjong) .

ENCHE' TAN TSAK Yu (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' TAN TYE CHEK (Kulim- Bandar Bahru).

„ „ „ TENGKU BESAR INDERA RAJA IBNI AL-MARHUM SULTAN IBRAHIM, D.K., P.M.N.

(Ulu Kelantan).
(Ulu Kelantan).

„ DATO' TEOH CHZE CHONG, D.P.M.J., J.P .

(Segamat Selatan) .

ENCHE' Too JooN HING (Telok Anson).

„ PENGHULU FRANCIS UMPAU ANAK EMPAM (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' V. VEERAPPEN (Seberang Selatan).

„ WAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU TUANKU BUJANG (Sarawak).

„ WAN MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ALi (Kelantan Hilir).

„ WAN SULAIMAN BIN WAN TAM, P.J.K.

(Kota Star Selatan).

„ WAN YAHYA BIN HAJI WAN MOHAMED, K.M.N.

(Kemaman).

„ ENCHE' WEE TOON BOON ( Singapore).

„ ENCHE' YAHYA BIN HAJI AHMAD ( Bagan Datoh).


„ ENCHE' YEH PAO TZE (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG ( Bruas).

„ ENCHE' YONG WOO MING (Sitiawan).

„ PUAN HAJJAH ZAIN BINTI SULAIMAN, J.M.N., P.I.S.

(Pontian Selatan).

„ TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD.

TAIB (Langat).

„ ENCHE' ZULKIFLEE BIN MUHAMMAD (Bachok).

ABSENT : Information and Broadcasting, Y.T.M.

TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PUTRA AL-Hu, K.O.M.

(Kuala Kedah).

„ the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah).
„ the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N.

(Sungai Siput).

„ the Minister without Portfolio, DATO' ONG YOKE LIN, P.M.N.

(Ulu Selangor).

„ the Assistant Minister of the Interior, ENCHE' CHEAH THEAM SWEE (Bukit Bintang) .

„ the Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN (Kota Star Utara).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL RAHIM ISHAK (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' AHMAD BOESTAMAM (Setapak).

„ CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak).


„ O. K. K. DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

„ DR AWANG BIN HASSAN (Muar Selatan).

„ TUAN HAJI AZAHARI BIN HAJI IBRAHIM (Kubang Pasu Barat).

„ ENCHE' CHAN YOON ONN (Kampar).

„ ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' JEK YEUN THONG (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' KHONG KOK YAT (Batu Gajah).

The Honourable the Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister of 4429 8 JANUARY 1964 4430 The Honourable ENCHE' LEE KuArt YEW (Singapore).
ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim).

ENCHE' LING BENG SIEw (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat).

ENCHE' PETER Lo Su YIN (Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHAMED DAHARI BIN HAM MOHD.

AL!

(Kuala Selangor).

(Pasir Mas Hulu).

DATO' MOHAMED HANIFAH BIN HAJI ABDUL GHANI, P.J.K.

ENCHE' PETER J. MOJUNTIN, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' ONG PANG BOON ( Singapore).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN WOK (Singapore).

ENCHE' S. RAJARATNAM ( Singapore).

TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD.

SAID, J.P. (Rembau-Tampin).


ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh).

ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SONG THIAN CHEOK (Sarawak) .

DATU DONALD ALOYSIUS STEPHENS, P.D.K.

(Sabah) .

ENCHE' TAN KEE OAK (Bandar Melaka).

DR TOH CHIN CHYE (Singapore).

ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TZE (Sarawak).

ENCHE' YONG NYUK LIN (Singapore).

„ „ „ „ „ „ „ The Honourable the Minister without Portfolio, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH , P.J.K.

(Ulu Selangor).

IN ATTENDANCE : (Mr Speaker in the Chair) stand part of the Schedule.
$7,704,792 for Head S. 66R, and $9,404,690 for Head S. 67T PRAYERS BILL THE SUPPLY BILL, 1964 Order read for resumed considera- tion in Committee of Supply (Twelfth Allotted Day).

House immediately resolved itself into Committee of Supply.
(Mr Speaker in the Chair) SCHEDULE Heads S. 39, S. 40, S. 65M, S. 66R and 67T Resumption of Debate on Question : That the sums of : $2,096,604 for Head S.39, $101,573 ,920 for Head S. 40, $37,250,830 for Head S. 65M, Enche' Mohamed Asri bin Haji Muda (Pasir Puteh ): Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka mengambil bahagian ber- chakap di-bawah Kepala S. 40 berkenaan dengan Ketua Polis Negara.
Saya terpaksa menyatakan perasaan sedeh dan dukachita terhadap ke- dudokan sa-sudah berlaku-nya Malay- sia, maka Ketua Polis Negara kita telah di-lantek sa-orang yang bukan warga-negara negeri ini, pada hal sa- sudah kita merdeka tahun 1957 dahulu dan sa-sudah berjalan sa-kian lama, pada akhir-nya jawatan yang tertinggi dalam bahagian polis ini telah menchapai satu kemajuan yang sangat2 di-hargai dan patut di-beri kepujian yang sa-tinggi2-nya manakala pehak Kementerian ini telah mengam- bil langkah dengan melantek anak 4431 8 JANUARY 1964 4432 negeri ini menjadi ketua yang tertinggi Satu perkar.
a lagi, Tuan Pengerusi, sa-kali dalam anggota polis negara kita saya suka hendak bangkitkan tentang mi.

Tetapi sa-sudah berubah daripada Persekutuan Tanah Melayu menjadi sa-buah negara Malaysia yang mengi- kut perhitongan pehak Kerajaan ini suatu langkah yang menuju ka-arah kemajuan dan suatu langkah yang benar2 menchapai hakikat kemerde- kaan yang sa-jati, tiba2 langkah yang.
pada mula-nya balk dengan melantek anak negeri ini menjadi ketua yang tertinggi sa-kali dalam bahagian polis negara ini telah berubah dan mundor sa-bahagian daripada kerja2 polis di- dalam negeri kita mi.

Dengan tidak menapikan bahawa Pasokan Polis negara kita ini banyak telah membuat jasa kapada negeri ini dan kepujian patut-lah di-berikan kapada ' mereka itu tentang kerja2 mereka yang selisa dan selia terhadap keamanan dan ketenteraman di-dalam negara kita mi.
Maka di-antara itu kita dapati ada sa-bahagian kechil daripada mereka itu di-dalam melakukan tugas2-nya ka- balek ka-belakang manakala ketua dang2 menzahirkan kerja2 mereka yang tertinggi bagi polis Malaysia telah di-lantek sa-orang yang bukan anak negeri ini.

Patut-lah pehak Kementerian ini sedar bahawa langkah berat sa-belah, terutama sa-kali di- dalam tugas2 mengawal ketenteraman dari segi politik.
Di-negeri Kelantan mithal-nya, Tuan Pengerusi, sa- yang saperti itu boleh menimbulkan bahagian daripada kaki-tangan polis perasaan tidak sihat dan tidak nyaman daripada seluroh ra`ayat dan pendudok negeri ini sa-olah2-nya pehak Kemen- terian itu •terasa bahawa belum ada lagi kelayakan dari .

kalangan anak negeri ini untok menjawat jawatan yang tertinggi itu.
Tetapi, manakala kita melihat kapada Kepala S. 40 Butiran (1) dan di-bandingkan dengan Butiran (30}---Pesuroh Jaya Polis, Tingkatan-tertinggi A bagi Polis Semenanjong, maka kita dapati sama ada tingkatan-nya mahu pun tangga gaji-nya sama2 sahaja.
mi erti-nya telah menunjokkan sikap yang terlalu berat sa-belah dalam mengawal dan menjaga kerja2 parti2 politik, umpama- nya di-dalam majlis'- cheramah yang telah di-adakan di-negeri Kelantan itu, pada hal kita dapat tahu bahawa mengadakan majlis cheramah ya`ani mengadakan perjumpaan di-dalam sa- buah rumah untok menerangkan, berbinchang sa-suatu, tidak sa-bagai rapat umum di-hadapan ra`ayat yang ramai, biasa-nya majlis cheramah saperti itu tidak-fah perlu meminta kebenaran daripada pehak polis dan menunjokkan dengan terang dan jelas perkara ini saya sendiri telah bertanya bahawa orang yang dahulu-nya kapada Penasihat Undang2 tentang memegang jawatan ketua yang tertinggi kedudokan yang sa-benar-nya di-dalam bagi Polis Persekutuan memang mem- perkara ini, dan nampak-nya Penasihat punyai kelayakan untok menyandang Undang2 itu bersetuju dengan saya jawatan sa-bagai Ketua Tertinggi atau bahawa kalau mengadakan majlis Inspector-General bagi Polis Malaysia cheramah di-dalam sa-buah rumah mi.
Sudah-lah sampai masa-nya pehak yang tertutup saperti itu tidak-lah Kementerian ini menimbangkan kem- perlu mendapat kebenaran daripada bali dengan tidak payah menanti2 dan pehak polis, tetapi apa yang berlaku, menunggu2 saperti mana langkah yang Tuan Pengerusi, pehak'- kaki-tangan telah di-ambil di-bawah Kementerian polis yang tertentu telah mengambil Pertahanan dengan melantek anak berat sangat tentang perkara ini, dan negeri ini dengan serta-merta me- kadang2 mengganggu majlis2 cheramah megang jawatan yang tertinggi dalam saperti itu, sa-hingga kadang2 boleh anggota Tentera Malaysia ini.
Maka menimbulkan pandangan daripada demikian-lah hendak-nya pehak Yang orang ramai bahawa pehak polls Berhormat Menteri ini mesti menun benar2 telah merupakan sa-bagai satu2 jokkan kapada ra`ayat negeri ini dan kaki-tangan daripada sa-buah parti kapada dunia seluroh-nya keberanian bertindak melantek dengan serta- politik menekan dan sa-bagai-nya.
Satu masa saya sendiri bersama2 dengan merta anak negeri ini memegang Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kota jawatan yang tertinggi bagi anggota Bharu Hilir mengadakan satu majlis polls negara Malaysia kita mi.
cheramah di-dalam kawasan pilehan 443 8 JANUARY 1964 4434 raga saya sendiri, di-waktu hujan yang lebat di=dalam sa-buah rumah orang kah tidak berlaku kejadian yang saperti ini, tetapi apa yang saya saya sendiri, tetapi sa-lepas daripada cheritakan ini is-lah kejadian yang itu konon-nya ada daripada pehak berlaku di-hadapan mata saya sendiri Parti Perikatan telah melaporkan dan dengan pengetahuan saya sendiri.
kapada polis dan polis telah datang dengan tergesa2 dengan sa-buah Saya dua tiga hari baharu2 ini, sa- sudah saya bertalipon ka-rumah saya pasokan yang ramai mengepong rumah sendiri , orang rumah saya telah itu dan naik ka-rumah itu, ber- tanyakan kapada saya, ada-kah tidak memberitahu kapada saya bahawa dua tiga kali pehak polis itu telah permit?

Saya kata permit apa?

Kata dia menalipon ka-rumah saya meminta permit mengadakan uchapan.
Saya saya datang ka-pejabat polis untok kata ini bukan majlis sharahan umum.

interview kata dia berthabit dengan Ini majlis cheramah di-atas rumah.

cheramah di-tempat yang saya cherita- Akhir-nya dia minta kad gambar saya.

kan tadi.

Dia bukan tidak tahu yang Saya beri-lah segala kehendak dia.

saya sekarang ini sedang ada berme Saya kata apa fasal Enche' datang ini?

Kata dia kerana ada report.

Ah !

ini- lah yang sudah kata dia, kalau ada report,, terpaksa kami datang.
Soal itu tidak apa-lah, Tuan Penge- rusi, tetapi satu minggu kemudian, tuan rumah itu telah di-panggil, di- adakan penyiasatan di-tekan dan sa- bagai-nya, ' dan akhir-nya datang Pegawai Polis di-kampong itu ber- tanyakan kapada tuan rumah itu Pula dan menyatakan ta' usah-lah lagi sokong parti PAS ini, sokong-lah Parti Perikatan.
Jadi, nampak terang walau pun dengan chara sulit bahawa kerja2 sa-bahagian, bukan semua-nya, sa- bahagian daripada kaki-tangan polls ini is-lah betul2 untok mengganggu kerja2 politik di-dalam negeri ini, dan merupakan sa-bagai alat dan kaki- tangan daripada pehak Yang Berhor- mat Menteri ini sendiri agak-nya.

Jadi, kerja2 yang berat sa-belah sa- perti ini, Tuan Pengerusi, patut-fah di- hindarkan daripada berlaku di-dalam angkatan polls kita.
Jangan-lah Yang Berhormat Menteri ini chuba hendak menjadikan kaki-tangan polis itu, atau sa-bahagian daripada-nya sa-kali pun sa-bagai alat daripada pehak politik- nya sendiri untok menekan kebebasan democracy di-dalam negeri mi.

Sunggoh pun pehak polis telah di-beri sagu hati baharu2 ini dengan kenaikan gaji-nya., tetapi jangan-lah hendak-nya dengan kerana kenaikan gaji dan sagu hati itu dapat diri mereka itu di- shuarat di -Kuala Lumpur, tetapi dia sengaj a di-talipon , .
bukan sahaj a ka- rumah saya , tetapi ka -mana sahaja rumah yang dia tahu saya pernah berjalan, dia talipon bertanyakan ada- kah tidak Enche' Mohamed Asri di- situ , kerana kata-nya pehak polis hendak interview dia, pehak C.I.D.

kata-lah pehak Investigation Officer entah apa lagi tidak tahu-lah saya.

Ini-lah chara-nya .

Jadi, pehak polis sa- olah2-nya hendak menunjokkan kapada orang ramai bahawa Mohamed Asri sekarang ini sedang di-chari .

Bagitu- lah keadaan-nya .


Jadi, ini-lah, saya minta kapada Yang Berhormat Men- teri ini, walau pun hati-nya tidak mahu membenarkan , saya minta ka= pada Yang Berhormat Menteri ini supaya pada masa akan datang elak- kan-lah sa -berapa boleh , dan tahan- kan-lah naf su politik itu daripada berlaku di-dalam kalangan kaki- tangan pehak polis di-dalam negeri in'.

Satu perkara lagi, Tuan Pengerusi, baharu2 ini berlaku mogok pekerja2 NETS.
Saya bukan hendak cheritakan soul mogok itu, tetapi saya hendak cheritakan tindakan pehak polis itu.
Saya bacha di-dalam surat khabar, sebab waktu mogok itu berlaku is-lah waktu sidang Parlimen ini berjalan, ia- itu bagaimana kaki-tangan polis, itu pun tidak semua-nya barangkali yang telah melakukan kerja2 memechah2kan pemogok pekerja2 NETS di-tempat pergunakan oleh pehak Kementerian slmpan bas di-Pasir Puteh is-itu di- Yang Berhormat ini ' untok menekan kawasan saya sendiri, sa-hingga apa- sa-suatu gulongan politik yang lain.
kala pehak pemogok itu tidor di-atas Saya tidak tahu di-negeri2 lain, ada- jalan tidak membenarkan base itu 4435 S JANUARY 1964 4436 datang, ada di-antara kaki-tangan polis itu yang datang memijak perut- nya dan menyepak-nya pemogok2 itu sampai pengsan, dan terpaksa di-bawa ka-hospital.
Waktu di-tanya kapada pehak yang berkuasa polis di-Kelantan ini surat khabar juga yang mencheritakan-nya kata-nya pe- hak polis tidak pernah melakukan demikian, tetapi yang pernah berlaku, Tuan Pengerusi, is-lah beberapa orang daripada kaki-tangan pekerja2 NETS itu telah di-bawa ka-hospital dan terpaksa di-rawat beberapa hari.
Ini pun mudah2an pada masa akan datang tidak akan lagi berlaku, dan jangan-lah ini saya katakan sa-kali lagi, jangan-lah pehak Kementerian ini menggunakan kaki-tangan polis itu dengan chara yang tidak betul bagi meluluskan segala apa kehendak-nya sendiri.

Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Penge- rusi, kembali saya kapada soal ber- kenaan dengan tindakan polis menangkap orange politik pada masa2 yang akhir2 mi.
Orange politik yang saya hendak terangkan itu is-lah berkenaan dengan penangkapan ka- pada beberapa orang ahli2 PAS di-negeri Kelantan dalam Jajahan Pasir Mas, terutama-nya penangkapan yang akhir is-itu kapada dua orang anggota ulama yang di-tahan di-bawah Undang2 Keselamatan Dalam Negeri.

Saya dapat-lah menyatakan di-sini bahawa sangat-lah janggal keadaan pehak Yang Berhormat Menteri, atau Kemen terian yang berkenaan ini menan gkap dua orang ulama PAS pada masa2 yang akhir mi.
Janggal kata saya itu, janggal dengan alasan- nya, janggal dengan chara penahanan- nya, dan janggal pula dengan chara melepaskan mereka itu.

Saperti yang telah ma`alum bagaimana kenyataan daripada Yang Berhormat Menteri bahawa di-lepaskan dua orang ulama PAS itu is-lah di-atas alasan ke- sihatan dan peri kemanusiaan.
Saya, di-atas chakap2 itu, saya uchapkan terima kaseh-lah, rupa2-nya Yang Berhormat Menteri kita ini maseh tebal lagi rasa peri kemanusiaan-nya sa-hingga sampai oleh kerana datang rasa peri kemanusiaan-nya itu yang hadap kesihatan dua orang ulama PAS itu bagitu hibat, sa-hingga mereka itu boleh di-lepaskan daripada Un- dang2 Keselamatan Dalarn Negeri mi.
Tetapi, Tuan Pengerusi, satu perkara yang harus menjadi masaalah kapada kita sekarang ini, benar-kah perasaan peri kemanusiaan dan rasa kasehan atas kesihatan yang tidak bagitu baik..... Mr Chairman: Order !

Order !

Saya dapat tahu perkara ini pehak PAS ada menuntut kerugian kapada Kerajaan dengan sebab orang ini di-tahan.

Maka jika ada perkara itu dalam Mahkamah, itu sub judice tidak boleh di-bawakan perkara itu.
Ini saya dapat tahu dalam surat khabar pehak PAS ada menuntut kerugian kerana malu di-tangkap itu.

Kalau ada berlaku macham itu, saya tidak boleh benarkan benda itu di- bahathkan di-sini.

Jaga sadikit.

Enche' Mohamed Asri bin Haji Muda : Tuan Pengerusi, saya tidak tahu-lah tentang hal itu sebab tidak ada di-sampaikan kapada saya sama ada pehak Persatuan Islam menuntut ke- rugian dalam Mahkamah.

Jadi pada fikiran dan fahaman saya benda itu maseh belum ada tuntutan lagi.
Mr Chairman: Saya dapat tahu itu dalam surat khabar.

Enche' Mohamed Asri bin Ha ji Muda: Ta' apa-lah, kalau saya sudah tahu dan faham bila benda itu sudah di-bawa ka-Mahkamah saya berhenti- lah berchakap di-atas perkara itu.

Chuma itu-lah pada keselurohan-nya, dapat-lah Menteri Yang Berhormat Keselamatan Dalam Negeri ini patut- lah benar2 layak bertanggong-jawab di-dalam menj aga keamanan negeri ini dan dalam mengawal supaya roh dan semangat demokrasi itu dapat hidup dengan subor di-negeri mi.
Jangan-lah kesuboran demokrasi itu dapat di- halangi oleh rachun2 yang bisa yang keluar dari tangan Menteri Keselamatan Dalam Negeri itu sendiri.

The Deputy Prime Minister (Tun Haji Abdul Razak): Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise to answer the statement made by the Honourable Member for Kuala bagitu mendalam dan kasehan ter- Langat yesterday that there was an 4437 8 JANUARY 1964 4438 attempt made to harm him, or to take his life, by some one.
He implicated the State Assemblyman for Morib whose name is now obvious, and he has also implicated my name.

Sir, this is a serious allegation and I can assure the House that there is no truth at all in this allegation.

It is a matter of very deep regret that the name of the State Assemblyman for Morib has been brought into this House, because he is not a Member of this House.

The Honourable Member for Kuala Langat also said that I called his religious teacher from Johore.
I have not known this man and I have not done this at all -I do not know this religious teacher at all.

This had happened eight to ten months ago, and if it was true, why did not the Honourable Member make a report to the Police, so that the Police could thoroughly investigate the case?

Sir, I challenge the Honourable Member to make a written report to the Police, so that if there is no truth in his allegation.

then I can take action against him under the law.


If he would not do this, I will ask the Attorney-General to make a full inquiry into this, and if there is no truth in his allegation -I am sure there is no truth in it -I will lay the matter before the Committee of Privileges of this House.
I am afraid, Sir, it has become the custom for some Members of the Opposition to make allegations of a serious nature under the sanctuary of this House, when the proper thing to do is that such allegations should be made to the Police.

I feel that it is the duty of the Committee of Privileges of this House to look into this matter.
Now, Sir, I know that ever since the Honourable Member was dismissed by the Alliance, he has been going round to his constituency saying that people were trying to do harm to him.

He did this in order to invoke the pity of the people on him so that they will support him.

Having done this for some time, he has got to implicate some one in this and he has chosen the State Assemblyman for Morib and myself.

I and he is definitely a case for mental examination.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

He though that in the circumstances in which he was dismissed from the Alliance, in these circumstances, this is what he himself would have done to a colleague who had left.

However, Sir, we the Ministers of the Alliance Government, are made of better stuff than him, and the people of this country and Honourable Members of this House know that too well.

There is no need for me to try to explain this at length.
The people throughout the length and breadth of this country are in a position to judge for themselves what we have done so far and they are also able to judge for themselves how we have been behaving since we came into office.

Indeed, Sir, if we had wanted to eliminate him from the political field, there would be no need to do what he alleged.

We can do so through the orginary democratic and electoral process and that process is being carried out.
Sir, the Honourable Member should know that his life is not worth $20,000 or $2,000 whatever figure he gave.

I have made, this morning, enquiry from the Police who has confirmed that there is no report made to the Police in respect of his allegation that a certain incident took place some eight or ten months ago.

The Honour- able Member did make a verbal report to the Police on three or four occasions one on the 30th March, Report No.
174/63, Tanjong Sepat : he alleged that four or five Malays attempted to enter his compound, and the Police did make investigation into this; then on 7th April, 1963, he again made a report, Report No.

8189/63, that two persons attempted to enter his compound; then on the 16th April, 1963, he asked the O.C.P.D.
to send a patrol to go round his house as he said he found people loitering in his compound; this the Police did; the last report he made was during the last by-election in Telok Datoh, where he said some people travelling in a Peugot car attempted to waylay him.

say, Sir, that the Honourable Member These are the only reports he made to is suffering from persecution complex, the Police, and on this particular 4439 $ JANUARY 1964 4440 allegation he has not made a report to the Police.
Minister of Internal Security that these people will not be victimised in I now challenge the Honourable Member to make a written report to the Police if there is any truth in his allegation and I am sure there is no truth; if he is not prepared to do so, I will order an inquiry.

The only regret that I have is that the Honourable Member as an ex-colleague should have the heart to allege that I have tried to do harm to him, or to take away his life.
This gives me pain, but this is a pain that I must suffer myself.

I can assure the Honourable Member that if anything were to happen to him in future, it will not be through me or through my hand Tuhan sahaja-lah yang akan menyaksi hal mi.

Sir, I will definitely go to the bottom of this serious allegation, and if there is no truth in it -I am convinced there is no truth then we will have to take appropriate action against the Honour- able Member.

(Applause).
(Applause).

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak (Kuala Langat): Sir, I will make an immediate report to the Police station, because my allegation is true, and I Defence to swear on the Koran if there is no truth in it.

(Interruption).

Sir, as a Muslim to another Muslim, I think, that is significant.

I sincerely ask him, if there is no truth in it, will he swear by the Koran that there is no truth in it?
For my part, I thought at the beginning that I did not want to report it officially to the Police, but I did make unofficial reports to the District Officer, Kuala Langat, and the O.C.P.D.

and also to the Minister of Transport; I did mention it to him.

It was in May; it was soon after the incident took place.

In fact, Sir, I do not lie.

I think the Minister of Defence is not telling the truth and is afraid.

He is capable of such a daibolical act.

any way.


Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, I would like to explain.

As I said, it is not usual for us to swear by the Koran on this matter.

But as the Honourable Member has agreed to make a report, a written report, I will ask him to do it immediately and full investigation will be made into this case; and with the agreement of my colleague, the Minister of Internal Security, there will be no victimisation, because we want to get to the bottom of this.
It is a serious allegation and if there is no truth in it, then appropriate action will be taken under the law.

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, will he swear by the Koran?

Tun Haji Abdul Razak : No, Sir.

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: He will not swear by the Koran, Sir.

(Interruption).

Mr Chairman : Order, order.


The question of swearing by the Koran is not a matter which should be taken up The Minister of Transport (Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir): Tuan Pengerusi, Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat berchakap mengatakan dia buat report pada saya; saya ini bukan Polis hendak menerima report dia, saga tidak perchaya perkara mi.
Enche' Abdul Rauf bin Abdul Rahnian (Krran Laut): Tuan Penge- rusi, saya berdiri is-lah hendak menyokong anggaran perbelanjaan Kementerian Keselamatan yang ber- j umlah $103,670,524 is-itu perbelan- jaan bagi tahun 1964.

Tuan Pengerusi, sa-lain daripada itu saya menguchapkan sa-tinggi2 tahniah kapada Kementerian ini dengan melalui ketua2-nya dan challenge the Honourable Minister of by this House at all !

Sir, I am prepared and I will do it.


pegawai2 keselamatan di-dalam negeri I will immediately go to the Police is-itu kapada Special Branch, C.I.D.

station and lodge a report.

Of course, I again plead here that those persons dan juga polis yang telah menjalankan kewajipan-nya masing2 untok menjaga involved will not be victimised, so that keamanan negeri ini, dan di-dalam proper process of law will take place.
tugas2 mereka yang saya sebutkan tadi, That I ask as an assurance from the dapat-lah kita saksikan dengan bijak Deputy Prime Minister and the pandai ahli2 keselamatan itu dapat 4441 S JANUARY 1964 4442 beberapa perkara yang merbahaya yang akan merosakkan keselamatan negeri ini dapat di-tangkap atau di-pechahkan kumpulan2 itu.
Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka-lah menyatakan di-dalam Dewan ini ada sa-tengah2 daripada Ahli2 Dewan ini terutama sa-kali pehak parti2 Pembangkang selalu mengatakan ada-lah satu2 tangkapan yang di- jalankan oleh Kerajaan kapada diri sa-saorang itu di-katakan-nya orang itu tidak bersalah, biar pun orang itu salah, mengatakan yang di-tangkap itu tidak betul, tidak ada dalam Undang2 dan orang itu di-tangkap dengan tidak ada kesalahan-nya.
Ini-lah yang selalu kita dengar dalam Dewan ini daripada tudohan2 yang di-beri oleh parti2 Pembangkang.

Jadi, nampak-nya pada pendapat saya, Tuan Pengerusi, ini sudah menjadi tabiat sa-mula jadi kapada manusia is-itu apakala suatu perkara yang salah yang telah di-buat oleh ibu bapa atau adek beradek atau anak2 saudara-nya, apakala di- tangkap sudah tetap mengatakan anak-nya itu tidak salah, abang-nya tidak salah, wal-hal yang di-tangkap itu sudah sabit dengan kesalahan.
Jadi, di-sini saya suka-lah lagi untok memberi fikiran dan mengeshorkan kapada Kementerian Keselamatan ini jalankan-lah tugas2 yang telah di- tanggongkan kapada Kementerian ini untok menjaga keselamatan negeri mi.

Tangkap siapa juga yang di-fikiran salah, tangkap siapa juga yang di-shaki atau orange yang menggangui keselamatan di-dalam negeri mi.
Tangkapan itu bukan-nya daripada tingkatan rendah, bahkan jika Ahli2 Yang Berhormat Dewan Palimen ini sa-kali pun sa-kira-nya membuat sa-suatu kesalahan yang merosakkan keselamatan di-dalam negeri ini hendak-lah Kementerian ini menj alan- kan tugas-nya sa-bagaimana yang telah di-jalankan-n.ya pada masa2 yang sudah.
Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka menarek bulan yang lalu kalau tidak silap saya, barangkali Ahli2 Yang Berhormat semua tahu banyak daripada saudara2 kita yang datang daripada Pulau Riau ka-Singapura, tujuan-nya tidak lain dan tidak bukan apakala di-tanya is-lah untok membeliberas dan di- tanya apa fasal-nya mereka datang ka-mari untok membeli beras kerana di-Pulau Riau itu beras tidak ada, dan pemerentahan di-sabelah sana nampak- nya terlampau kejam.
Jadi, kita di-sini sa-bagai manusia yang ada mempunyai peri perasaan kemanusiaan kita sudah memikirkan orang yang sa-macham ini patut sangat-lah di-beri pertolongan untok keselamatan diri mereka dan anak2 mereka, tetapi kita hendak-lah beringat2 atas kedatangan orange yang sa-macham ini, kita takut dan saya juga takut di-dalam 30 orang atau 40 orang yang datang daripada Pulau Riau itu bukan semua-nya orange itu sa-benar2-nya untok menchari makan yang akan di-bawa balek ka-Riau, saya takut di-dalam 30-40 orang ini ada 10 orang yang membuat susah diri-nya menyertai orange itu yang di-arah oleh Keraj aan Indonesia, untok menyeludup dan berjumpa dengan agent2 Indonesia yang ada di-sini.
Di-sini, saya suka-lah mengingatkan Kementerian Kesela- matan hendak-lah berjaga2 dan ber- waspada berkenaan dengan kedatangan orange Indonesia yang di-katakan hanyut atau di-pukul angin dalam perahu-nya di-masa dalam laut sana.

Baharu2 ini dua orang wanita Indonesia telah dapat di-tangkap di-Singapura, kalau tidak silap saya, orang itu mengatakan pemerentahan Indonesia zalim dan askar2 di-sana sudah membuat satu perkara yang tidak baik kapada kaum2 wanita di-tempat2 itu.
Ini kita mesti fikir : kedatangan orang ini macham mana orange itu boleh datang ka-Singapura, menumpang kapal2 kayu, saya tidak fikir, tentu perkara itu ada hantaran daripada Indonesia.

Lagi sa-kali saya mengingatkan kapada Kementerian ini perhatian Dewan ini is-Iah ber- hendak-lah berjaga2 perkara yang sangkutan dengan penyeludupan atau sa-macham ini.

Kerana apa, Tuan pun kedatangan2 orange yang kita tidak hajati datang ka-Persekutuan Pengerusi?
Saya suka-lah mengambil satu berita yang saya tahu; di-masa ini, terutama sa-kali is-lah saudara2 Perang Dunia yang Kedua Tuan kita daripada Indonesia.

Pada dua Churchill memberi ingatan kapada 4443 8 JANUARY 1964 4444 Perdana Menteri British Tuan Cham- berlain, kata-nya, "Ingat2 perbuatan Jerman yang menghalaukan segala orange Yahudi di-negeri Jerman di- keluarkan daripada negeri itu : saya takut orange Yahudi yang di-hambat itu ada Gestapo2 Jerman di-dalam-nya sama menyeksa diri sa-bagai Yahudi."
Perkara itu sudah betul, is-itu di-dalam banyak2 Yahudi yang di-halau dari- pada negeri Jerman itu ada Gestapo2 dan spy di-champorkan sama untok menyusahkan diri bersama2 dengan Yahudi2 yang lain, sebab itu-lah di-masa peperangan Jerman apa kala Jerman masok senang sahaja dapat tempat yang di-tuju-nya.
Ini-lah satu ingatan yang saya dapat sa-lepas Perang Dunia II dan saya harap negara kita ini jangan-lah kita mem- perchayai, biar pun adek-beradek kita sendiri, jika gera.k langkah mereka silap hendak-fah kita ikut dan tangkap.

Saya tidak-lah lagi hendak ber- chakap panjang dan saya lagi sa-kali menyokong dengan penoh Perbelanjaan Kementerian Keselamatan Dalam Negeri yang berjumlah sa-banyak $103,670,524 bagi tahun 1964.
Tuan Syed Ja`afar bin Hasan Albar (Johor Tenggara ): Tuan Pengerusi, Dewan ini telah mendengar satu tu- dohan yang amat serious daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat.
Jadi, tudohan itu sa-belum saya berchakap sadikit berkenaan dengan-nya, saya ingin juga hendak membuat analisa berkenaan dengan din Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat itu supaya daripada analisa yang pendek dan rengkas itu dapat-lah Dewan ini mengukor dan menyukat sa-jauh mana dan sa-takat mana harga tudohan yang di-limparkan-nya dalam Dewan ini.
Daripada pengkajian saya yang lama berkenaan dengan Ahli Yang Berhormat ini dia ada-lah sa- orang yang sangat2 suka benar me- nerbitkan perkara2 untok hendak menarek perhatian orang ramai kapada wujud-nya di-atas muka bumi Allah ini, dan Ahli Yang Berhormat itu pada anggapan saya sa-orang yang pandai menchari peluang atau pun boleh saya katakan sa-orang "oppor- tunist" menchari tempat dan kedudok- an.
Kerana pada satu masa dahulu apakala dia terapong2 sa-bagai warta- wan yang tidak terkenal dia telah mendampingkan diri dengan allah- yarham Dato' Onn yang pada masa itu menjadi Menteri Dalam Negeri dan bersama2 menubohkan I.M.P.

untok.

mendapat tempat dan kedudokan bagi menimbulkan diri-nya supaya dia ter- pandang oleh orang ramai dalam negeri ini .
Akhir-nya Ahli Yang Ber- hormat itu telah masok bertanding dalam Pilehan Raya Municipal yang pertama dalam negeri ini di-Kuala Lumpur di-atas ticket atau dengan nama IMP (I.

M.P.)

dan dalam pilehan raya itu beliau telah di -tewaskan oleh chalun2 Perikatan.

Sa-telah beliau ka- lah dalam pilehan raya itu dia telah menchari jalan pula mendampingi Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku yang pada masa itu jadi ketua UMNO untok menchari tempat dan kedudok- an dalam UMNO.
Maka untok hendak memberi peluang kapada manusia ini kalau2 boleh dia di-gunakan bagi faedah dan kebajikan orang ramai - maka masok-lah dia dalam UMNO.

Maka dalam UMNO ini-lah nasib dan tuah Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat itu telah menjadi baik dan bintang -nya bertambah cherah daripada sa-orang wartawan yang tidak terkenal telah pun menjadi sa- orang Menteri dalam Jema`ah Menteri Kerajaan Perikatan .
Dan dalam masa Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat menjadi Menteri dalam Kera- jaan Perikatan dia telah membuat ber- bagai hal untok hendak menarek perhatian orang ramai bahawa dalam Jema`ah Menteri dan dalam Kerajaan Perikatan hanya ada sa-orang-lah sahaja yang patut di-kenal oleh ma- nusia dalam negeri ini, is-itu Yang Berhormat Menteri Pertanian dan Sha- rikat Kerjasama.
Enche' V. David (Bungsar): Mr Chairman, Sir, on a point of order, Standing Order 36 (9) which says : "No reference shall be made in any debate to the conduct or character of any Member of Parliament or of any public servant, other than conduct in the capacity of Member of Parliament or public servant, as the case may be."

I do not think this House is debating the history and background of the 4445 8 JANUARY 1964 4446 Member for Kuala Langat.
We are purely dwelling on the estimates under the Internal Security Act.

Mr Chairman : Yes, but you did not finish your sentence.

It says "other than conduct in the capacity of Mem- ber of Parliament"; in other words, if conduct in the capacity of Member of Parliament, it can be debated.

Enche' V. David: But not the historical background of the Member concerned.

Mr Chairman : He is on the pream- ble, perhaps.

(Laughter) (To Tuan Syed Ja`af ar) : Do not take too long.

Jangan panjang sangat.


Tuan Syed Ja`afar : Tujuan saya membentangkan sifat2 Ahli Yang Ber- hormat dari Kuala Langat ini is-lah supaya dapat pada kemudian-nya saya menggambarkan kapada Dewan ini plan kapada seluroh negeri ini bagai- mana sif at orang ini dan bagaimana chakap2 dan tudohan2 yang keluar daripada sa-or.

ang yang mempunyai sifat bagaimana yang saya gambarkan itu.
Jadi, dalam rnasa Ahli Yang Ber- hormat itu menjadi Menteri dalam Kerajaan bermacham2-lah dia telah menchuba hendak menarek perhatian orang ramai kapada maha diri-nya, ia- itu dengan "telor `ajaib-nya, dengan ayam `ajaib-nya dengan urea-nya" dan berbagai lagi.

Tujuan-nya tidak lain is-lah hendakkan supaya pandangan negeri ini tertumpu kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari.

Kuala Langat.
Kuala Langat.

Maka sekarang ini, Tuan Pengerusi, peluang untok Ahli Yang Berhormat itu menunjokkan diri-nya dan menon- jolkan diri-nya kapada orang ramai sa- bagai Menteri sa-telah dia di-buang dan di-pechat daripada UMNO dan di-buang daripada Jema`ah Menteri Perikatan, di.a tidak ada satu modal pun dan tid.ak ada satu kedudokan pun dan tidak ada satu tempat pun bertenggek untok menonjolkan bahawa aku ini-lah yang patut ra`ayat negeri ini dan manusia dalam negeri ini me- mandang dan mengaleh kapada-nya.
Maka oleh kerana agak-nya pilehan xaya sa-makin hari sa-makin dekat, Kuala Langat sa-makin lama sa-makin malap, maka pada hari ini di-dalam Dewan ini Ahli Yang Berhormat itu telah mendatangkan satu tudohan untok menarek hati dan perhatian seluroh ra`ayat negeri ini bahawa Ahli Yang Berhormat itu bagitu penting orang-nya, sa-hinggakan beberapa orang dan sa-orang Menteri telah men- chuba hendak mengambil nyawa-nya, sa-bagaimana yang di-tudoh-nya dalam uchapan-nya kelmarin.
Tudohan ini, Tuan Pengerusi, telah di-jelas dan di- terangkan oleh Yang Berhormat T"im- balan Perdana Menteri tadi, yang saya tidak hendak lagi mengulas lebeh, tetapi soal-nya pada hari ini : ini ha nya satu helah daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat itu hendak menunjokkan bahawa diri-nya itu terlampau penting, sa-hingga Kerajaan seluroh-nya dengan Menteri2 Kerajaan dalam negeri ini chuba hendak mengambil nyawa-nya, kerana takutkan Ahli Yang Berhormat itu.
Tetapi, Tuan Pengerusi, di-sini saya hendak menunjokkan bahawa chara-nya membuat publicity yang sa- umpama ini ada-lah satu chara yang paling burok sa-kali, yang paling mer- bahaya sa-kali, dan dia sekarang ber- hadapan dengan chabaran yang di- kemukakan kapada.-nya oleh Yang Berhormat Timbalan Perdana Menteri.

Jadi, di-sini, Tuan Pengerusi, saya hendak menguji tudohan-nya itu sa- jauh mana-kah kejujuran Ahli Yang Berhormat itu mendatangkan tudohan- nya.
Perkara tudohan hendak mem- binasakan tudoh badan-nya dan hendak meragot nyawa-nya sudah tujoh lapan bulan dahulu, mengikut kenyataan daripada Ahli Yang Ber- hormat itu sendiri, dan sa-hingga sa`at ini ugutan itu, anchaman atas diri dan nyawa-nya tidak di-reportkan kapada polis.

Jadi, ini menunjokkan dan ini satu dalil bahawa Ahli Yang Berhor- mat itu sendiri tidak perchaya bahawa apa yang di-chakapan-nya itu benar.
Sa-saorang yang nyawa-nya terugut, yang nyawa-nya terancham, dia tidak akan dudok diam, dia tentu akan mem- buat kenyataan, atau report kapada pehak polis supaya di-beri kawalan atas nyawa-nya, tetapi dia menuggu dan bintang Ahli Yang Berhormat dari berbulan2 baharu dia datang ka-mari.
4447 8 JANUARY 1964 4448 Tuan Pengerusi, saya fikir Kerajaan dan Parti Perikatan tidak perlu meng- ikut jalan kotor dan berfikir sechara kotor bagaimana yang di-buat oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat itu, kerana dengan jalan2 pilehan raya, kita akan dapat meng- hapuskan-nya daripada arina politik tanah ayer kita ini dengan tidak perlu dia mendatangkan tudohan2 untok me- naikkan diri-nya, menunjokkan betapa penting-nya dia ada di-dalam negeri mi.
Kita telah pun menchuba dan mengadu kekuatan dengan Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat itu di-dalam masa pilehan raya kechil di-Telok Datoh tempoh hari dalam mana chalun-nya yang tidak rasmi telah di-tewaskan de- ngan terok-nya oleh chalun Perikatan.
Jadi, dengan sebab2 ini, Tuan Penge- rusi, saya nampak tudohan Ahli Yang Berhormat itu tidak berharga dan dia sendiri tidak perchaya bahawa ada satu chubaan yang di-datangkan ka-atas diri-nya untok membahayakan nyawa- nya, atau membahayakan keselamatan- nya.

Kalau dia benar2 perchaya atas kebenaran perkara ini, tentu-lah dia telah menerima tawaran yang telah di- berikan oleh Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Menteri.
Di-dalam uchapan-nya waktu dia mengadukan perkara ini dia telah memberitahu bahawa Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Menteri telah menawarkan ka- pada beliau supaya di-beri kawalan untok menjaga keselamatan diri-nya, tetapi dia menolak.

mi menunjokkan bahawa Ahli Yang Berhormat itu ber- pura2 dan hendak menggunakan Dewan ini untok kepentingan diri-nya sendiri untok menghadapi pilehan raya yang akan datang.
Lagi satu perkara yang di-sebutkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat itu di- dalam uchapan-nya fadi berkenaan de- ngan soal sumpah.

Sa-bagai sa-orang Islam untok hendak menapikan sa- suatu perkara itu, maka tidak di-perlu- kan sumpah.

Jadi, menuntut sa-saorang itu bersumpah tidak ada kena-mengena dengan ugama Islam, dan ugama Islam ini di-dalam soal2 sumpah, dia patut mempelajari sa-belum dia menuntut sa- bahana-nya dan tidak boleh di- mengerti bagaimana hendak mengguna- kan sumpah itu.
Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad (Bachok): Tuan Pengerusi, say a hendak berchakap sadikit sahaja ber- kenaan dengan Pejabat Penchegah Rasuah.

Kita telah mendengar dalam Dewan ini sa-malam bahawa beberapa tudohan2 yang berat telah di-datang- kan terhadap Kerajaan dan sa-bagai- nya, dan juga terhadap Pejabat Pen- chegah Rasuah ini sendiri.
Saya ber- pendapat, Tuan Pengerusi, bahawa oleh kerana keadaan rasuah dalam negeri ini ada-Iah satu perkara yang patut mendapat perhatian daripada Kerajaan, walau pun ada Ahli Yang Berhormat mengatakan sa-malam, ia- itu Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Larut Utara mengatakan yang rasuah dan pelachoran ini tidak akan dapat di- hapuskan, so al menghapuskan semua sa-kali, tetapi usaha yang ketat untok menghapuskan rasuah itu hendak-lah di-ambil berat oleh Kerajaan.
Ter- dahulu daripada ini, saya telah me- ngemukakan chadangan kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri supaya Pejabat Penchegah Rasuah itu di-perkemaskan sa-demikian rupa sa-hingga dia itu tidak dapat di-pengarohi oleh sa-siapa, dan saya telah menchadangkan supaya di-ikhtiarkan oleh Kerajaan bagi mem- bentok Jabatan Penchegah Rasuah ini sama saperti Jabatan Auditor-General yang mempunyai anggota2 yang ber- sendiri dan chara yang bersendiri serta bebas di-dalam menjalankan tugas2-nya dan besar dalam kuasa-nya.
Saya ingin mengulang chadangan ini, walau pun pada masa dahulu Yang Berhormat Menteri telah menjawab bahawa rasuah tidak-lah yang sa-demikian besar di- dalam negeri kita ini, tetapi oleh kerana perkembangan keadaan saperti ini elok-lah di-fikirkan chadangan yang saperti ittl supaya berseh pandangan orang .ramai terhadap mereka yang berseh dan dapat di-chegah rasuah terhadap mereka yang tidak berseh dalam soal rasuah mi.
Tuan Pengerusi, pada masa se- saorang itu mengangkat sumpah untok karang ini peruntokan rasuah ini menapikan sa-suatu perkara itu, kerana hanya bertambah sadikit sahaja dan sumpah itu di-dalam Islam besar kelengkapan2 serta chara2 bekerja-nya 4449 8 JANUARY 1964 4450 maseh saperti lama is-itu bergantong kapada kerjasama daripada pehak polis.
Tuan Pengerusi, polis sendiri tidak terlepas daripada rasuah dan oleh sebab yang demikian, saya rasa sudah pada masa dan tempat-nya yang per- kara ini di-kaji sa-mula oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri atas asas meng- ikhtiarkan terwujud-nya dalam negeri ini satu badan yang tidak dapat di- perkotak-katekkan oleh sa-siapa pun dalam menchegah rasuah.
Tuan Pengerusi, penchegah terhadap rasuah yang menjadi soal kapada orang ramai pads, masa ini is-lab per- hatian di-beri kapada rasuah2 yang kechil, tetapi ada-lah sadikit perhatian yang di-beri kapada rasuah2 yang besar.

Kita dapat menjawab bahawa tidak ada bukti dalam rasuah yang besar itu yang menyebabkan kita tidak dapat bertindak.
Maka di-sini-lah ka-ahlian dan kechekapan serta ka- sempurnaan anggota2 Jabatan Pen- chegah Rasuah ini penting, sebab orang yang mendapat rasuah yang banyak tentu-lah orang yang pandai dan tentu-Iah orang yang chekap serta lichin Pula dan tidak-lah dapat di- atasi dengan sa-mata2 mengirimkan sa-orang penyiasat kechil untok me- ngetahui rasuah yang besar.

Jadi, per- kara ini saya berharap mendapat perhatian.
Tuan Pengerusi, muka 326, butiran 25 Perkhidmatan Rahsia ada-lah men- dapat peruntokan yang lebeh banyak pada tahun mi.
Saya tidak tabu bagaimana-kah chara perkhidmatan rahsia ini di jalankan, tetapi yang, penting bagi saya is-lah di-dalam membelanjakan wang yang sademikian ;banyak, perkara yang saya akui mustahak-nya di-adakan di-dalam keadaan bagini sulit bagi kita menyiasat di-d clam membelanj akan wang itu patut-fah Kementerian ini menyiasat lebeh dahulu penyiasatan2- nya sebab kita memberikan wang dan kira juga menerima laporan daripada orange yang saperti ini sama ada orange itu di-dalam jawatan atau di- luar yang bekerja.
sambil2an dengan Keraj aan, kebersehan diri mereka, perasangka2 dan kekotoran fikiran hendak-lah di-jamin lebeh dahulu.

Saya katakan ini sebab kita dapati di-dalam gulongan orange yang men- jalankan tugas2 saperti ini is-Iah mereka2 yang sudah kechiwa di- lapangan lain.

Saya perchaya ada kechenderongan daripada Jabatan2 Police Force me- nyerahkan kerja2 saperti ini bagi mereka2 yang tidak fikirkan lebeh mengerjakan kerja2 lain dengan chara chekap dan memuaskan.
Maka per- khidmatan rahsia ini menjadi per- khidmatan mengelirukan sa-kira-nya ini tidak dapat di-yakinkan lebeh dahulu.

Pernah satu report saya ke- tahui yang di-kenakan atas sa-orang Police Officer dalam masa sa-tahun is-itu dalam persidangan Budget yang sudah.

Report itu menga.takan bahawa Police Officer itu telah menjadikan rumah-nya tempat bersidang orange yang menyokong pemberontakan Azahari, sa-kurang2-nya tempat per- jumpaan.
Tuan Pengerusi, mujor-lah report itu di-sampaikan dan kemudian= nya Ketua Polis di-Kuala Lumpur telah memanggil bagi Polis yang kechil bertanyakan hal itu.

Saya sen- diri dapat melihat daripada keadaan report yang diiunakan itu nyata bahawa mereka yang memberi per- kh idmatan rahsia tidak mengetahul hujong pangkal apa yang di-buat dan di-lihat di-dapati orang, turun dari rumah di-chatetkan report-nya pan- jang2.
Perkara saperti ini tentu-lah, Tuan Pengerusi, akan membawa ka- pada pengeliruan yang akan meng- akibatkan kesusahan kapada orange yang tidak bersalah.

Jadi izinkan saya berkata, di-dalam perkhidmata.n rahsia ini mereka2 yang sudah frustrated orange yang kechiwa di-dalam pe- kerjaan-nya maka bakul sampahkan mereka di-dalam kerja2 mengintip menchari rahsia dan sa-bagai-nya.
Kalau Jabatan lain chawangan dan chabang2 kerja Polis menghajatkan kechergasan dia mengintip di-dalam kerja2 serta, pandai pula maka Jabatan ini ada-lah lebeh baik kerana ini ada- lah berhubong dengan kehidupan orange terutama orange yang di-shaki oleh Polis ini sendiri.

Enche' Chia Thye Poh (Singapore): Mr Chairman, Sir, I would likes to say a few words on the Malaysian Police estimates for Singapore and also wish 4451 8 JANUARY 1964 4452 to raise the matter of the, treatment of political detainees.
Sir, there are over 130 political detainees in Singapore and they are being subjected to brutal conditions of detention.

it has been argued that the detention of these persons is necessary to bar them from political activities on grounds of security.

In fact, the poli- tical leaders of Singapore are being ill-treated.

They are not only being deprived of their liberty without a trial, but are also being punished without being convicted of any offence.
Bad living conditions, intolerable food, de- privation of visitors and petty humilia- tions are only part of the story.

Solitary confinement beyond the limits per- mitted in civilised countries, beyond what is permitted by law to punish convicted criminals who' committed violence, together with psychological brutality have become the standard practice of the Special Police.

There is no doubt that the purpose is to produce physical and mental breakdown in these men and women.
In the past, we have seen this as' part of the political revenge of the P.A.P.

We want to see how long the Central Government intends to continue this.

There is a harvest of hate from such actions which are hardening the divisions amongst our people.

As the French discovered in Algeria, once you set the Secret Police in the course of brutality on whatever justification, you have started a cancer that will eat into the entire society.
Sir, the new estimates provide for an increase in the Police strength in Singapore.

Already there is plenty of evidence of force in Singapore in the shape of British troops, Gurkha troops, Gurkha Police, Federation Regiment, Federal Reserve Police, in addition to the Singapore Regiment, thq Singapore Police and Police Reserve, the Singa- pore Riot Squad, the Special Police, teurs, who have infiltrated into every society, every union and every school.
The tapping of telephones, the inter- ference with letters, the destruction of the legitimate political literature in the mails all this presumably requires a large staff and plenty of money.

The most flagrant use of police for party purposes has been the normal state of affairs in Singapore.

The F.A.P.

would not survive many days without the police that terrorise the people of Singapore.
Days after the formation of Malaysia, the Central Government was involved in breaking up the protest strike against the cancellation of the registration.

of the seven biggest unions in Singapore and the legitimate strike of the naval base workers for the betterment of their working conditions.

The police went round the city break- ing up the pickets and beating up the workers.

At no time had the workers caused any disturbances although the provocations were very great.
By this action the Government is bringing into contempt the constitutional process.

And at Nanyang University, a few days ago the police invaded the campus in an attempt to provoke trouble.

Mem- bers may remember how two months ago another band of police invaded Nanyang University, arrested some students, beat up many others some of them had to be admitted in hospital for severe internal injuries and molested women students.
Sir, there must be thinking people on the Govern- ment benches who must be disturbed at the thought of where all this is going to lead to.

The present method of ruling Singapore is reminiscent of the French in Algeria and the Portuguese in Angola.

This is not the way to solve political problems, which can only be solved by recognising the right of the people of Singapore to determine the future for themselves.

etc.
etc.

Increasing the amount of armed hormat, saya telah di-beritahu oleh force in Singapore is a bankrupt res- Menteri Keselamatan Dalam Negeri Mr Chairman: Ahli 2 Yang Ber- ponse to a political problem.

Sir, the large discretionary funds that are being asked for are presumably sebutkan di-dalam Majlis ini.
Saya for the purposes of financing the net- dapati ada lebeh kurang 5 orang Ahli work of informers , agents , provoca- Yang Berhormat lagi yang hendak dia akan mengambil masa lebeh kurang 40 minit kerana hendak men- jawab segala panda.ngan2 yang di- 4453 8 JANUARY 1964 4454 berchakap.

Jadi saya merayu-lah tiap2 instructions of the employer, who sa-orang itu berchakap sa-berapa brings in black legs and deprives pendek supaya memberi peluang ka- persuasion to the workers on strike.
pada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat yang lain.

This is daily increasing and ultimately Enche' V. David: Mr Chairman, Sir, this is one of the Ministries under which many speakers who really believe in the true sense of democracy would like to speak, but unfortunately in view of the short time allocated for these estimates I would like to confine on certain vital matters which would be of interest to this House.
Sir, the previous speaker from Singapore did speak his mind on the interference of the Federal Police in industrial disputes.

I have reason to support this as far as the Naval Base Union is concerned.

The strike which took place a few weeks back in Singapore Naval Base was intimidated and destroyed by the use of the Federal Police.
The Singapore Government became very clever by shifting the responsibility to the Federal Government, stating that the Federal Police were on the scene and therefore it was not the responsibility of the Singapore Government.

Mr Chairman, Sir, if legitimate strikes are interferred with by the police, it amounts to that no trade unions in this country can survive and that no trade unions can stage a strike in support for better wages and conditions of employment.
I am of the opinion that the trade unions will be completely destroyed by the police force of this country.

Sir, the previous speaker did speak about the employment of secret agents.

The Minister of Internal Security is beginning to assume the role of Dr Goebbels; not only that, he is carrying on with his witch-hunting as the late McCarthy did.

McCarthism is spreading in this country.


Every constitutional step taken by any progressive member either in this House or outside this House is being scrutinised and usually he is screened with a view of detaining him because he holds opposite views to the ruling party in power.

Enche' Ibrahim bin Abdul Rahman (Seberang Tengah): The Honourable Member keeps on looking to the other side.

I do not know whether there are two Chairmen here (Laughter).

Mr Chairman: That is a very small matter.


Will you face me, please.

Enche' V. David : I thought he was going to raise a serious point.

Mr Chairman : Never mind, no comment !

Sir, the Prime Minister has often said Enche' V. David: Sir, today we are that this House is a symbol of demo- faced with the problem of our con- cracy.

It is really a shame that these science on one side and the law on the words do not contain the right spirit other.

There is a conflict in our mind.

and the right meaning.


Day after day Are we to speak the truth?

If we are to police interference in strikes have speak the truth, we are heading towards increased tremendously.

The police detention and arbitrary arrest.

It makes interference in the Naval Base strike men in this country to become hypo- was immediately communicated to the crites.
On one side their conscience Prime Minister by the union concerned, says--even in the case of the members as well as to the Minister of Internal of the ruling party that arbitrary Security.

No action was taken.

The detention, preventive detention, is police abetted and aided the Naval Base undemocratic; and, on the other, fear commander in breaking open the union has been created in the minds of the premises and also destroying all docu- people.
Anyone expressing their feelings, ments of the union without any regard their conscience are liable to be detained to the union, which was registered.

Mr under one pretext or another.

Sir, Chairman, Sir, the same has been extended now to the Federation.

The moment a strike takes place in any people who have been arrested are faced with torture and ill-treatment.
Secrecy has become so intense that the industry the riot squad is called upon, detainees are not even told what crimes the employer is protected by the riot they are supposed to have committed.

squad and the riot squad acts on the All who hold opposite views to the 4455 8 JANUARY 1964 4456 Government party in power have been intimidated.

This is becoming in fact the routine background of the Alliance Government in power.
Sir, the Government with its unrestricted powers have often misused them and betrays the normal course of justice in this country.

We do not like to act in breach of the law, but if the law itself is not democratic in nature, and if its structure is going to persecute peace-loving people in this country, we have no other alternative except to challenge this in this House.

We feel, Sir, that this law is immoral and unjust.

We have repeated this in this House on several occasions.
The Government, in spite of all opposition, have continued to adopt a policy of detaining all those who do not contribute to their views.

The Honourable Member for Setapak has been detained; I am sure he himself does not know what offence he has committed.

He was arrested because of his increasing popularity among the people, and today he has been barred in spite of elections to be held in the hear future.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I call upon the Minister to release the detainees, those who have been arrested, and repeal the Internal Security Act, and then assess the feelings of the people by having democratic elections.

Then you will know where the Alliance Government and Dr Goebbels in the Government bench will stand.

Today with the immense fear created in the minds of voters and also in the minds of the public, they are unable to express freely for fear of being detained.
Sir, once again my Party continues to deplore the Internal Security Act as a law designed purposely to curb the activities of the Opposition and also to persecute all free thinking men in this country.

Enche' Mohamed Dun bin Banir (Sabah): Tuan Pengerusi, saya bangun hendak berchakap sadikit sahaja dalam Dewan yang mulia ini untok meng- alukan2 perbelanjaan yang telah di- shorkan oleh Menteri yang berkenaan.
Tuan Pengerusi, saya hendak berchakap di-dalam Dewan yang mulia ini ber- kenaan dengan orange Indonesia yang ada di-Sabah pada masa ini sa-banyak lobeh kurang 10,000 orang yang men- jadi buroh di-ladang2 getah atau pun di-kebun kayu.

Atas kedatangan mereka ka-Sabah itu ada-lah baik kapada pekebun2 getah atau pun pekebun2 kayu, tetapi kebaikan itu pula bertukar menjadi kejahatan kapada Kerajaan Sabah dan ra`ayat-nya.
Kerana atas kedatangan mereka itu saya khuatir menjadi satu jarum politik Soekarno untok meruntohkan Kerajaan yang baharu munchol is-itu Malaysia, dari itu saya merayu dalam Dewan yang mulia ini orange Indonesia yang berada di-Sabah itu akan tidak di-terima dan hendak-lah di-keluarkan dari Sabah.
Tuan Pengerusi, saya juga meng- alukan2 kerja2 bagi pehak pegawai keamanan is-itu polis untok mengawal keselamatan di-dalam negeri, maka atas tanggong-jawab mereka itu tentu sa- kali-lah bagi pehak ra`ayat sangat2 terhutang budi yang mana mereka itu kuat dan ta`at setia dan tidak berpechah- belah untok mempertahankan untong nasib negara jangan sampai kalah.
Maka di-sini saya suka j uga berkata sadikit dalam Dewan ini is-itu baharu sa-bentar tadi saya telah mendengar uchapan Yang Berhormat dari Singa- pura atau pun pehak Pembangkang mengatakan polis hendak mengganggu dan menangkap mereka dan lain2 perkara atas perkara2 yang hendak mereka buat.

Tetapi saya suka menarek perhatian atas perkara ini is-itu Ahli2 Yang Berhormat yang berkata itu tentu sa-kali-lah sudah bersalah, sebab tiap2 orang yang bersalah mereka takut.
Kalau orang yang benar tentu sa-kali tidak merayu dalam Dewan yang mulia mi.

Oleh yang demikian, saya perchaya mereka itu tentu sa-kali mengadakan kesalahan yang tertentu di-dalam perkara yang mereka telah jalankan.

Mereka itu mengatakan murid Nanyang di-tangkap, sebab-nya di-tempat itu barangkali ada beneh Kominis di-situ.

Jadi dari itu tentu-lah polis menjalan- kan tugas yang telah di-beri oleh ketua- nya untok mempertahankan maruah Kerajaan Malaysia.
Jadi, sa-takat ini-lah sahaja yang saya dapat katakan, oleh sebab, Tuan Pengerusi, tidak memberi izin berchakap lama.

Jadi saya menyokong penoh atas 4457 8 JANUARY 1964 4458 perbelanjaan yang telah di-shorkan oleh Menteri yang berkenaan atas perkara yang tersebut itu.

Enche' Ho See Beng (Singapore): Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise to associate myself in support of the Government in respect of the sum allocated for expen- diture for the Ministry of Internal Security.
In a time of national crisis, I believe that no one, if he thinks that he is a Malaysian, should object to the expenditure for this important item, especially when President Soekarno is -emitting sulphur gas to poison the Malaysian region.

Sir, I think that as we have already gone through quite a lot of debate and argument on this item, I need not have to speak further.

But as certain Mem- Supply Head S. 39 that I would like to speak.
Some time ago, the Premier of Singapore stated that he gave two weeks to the "Plen", who was the communist boss in Singapore, to escape.

He stated that he gave full particulars in respect of the "Plen" to the Honour- able the Minister of Internal Security.
Since confrontation has been influenced by the communists, will the Honourable the Minister kindly inform the House on the following points : who was the "Plen", where was he from, whether or not the "Plen" plays an active part in the confrontation, and whether the decision to allow the "Plen" to escape was made with the consent of the Central Government.
Mr Chairman, Sir, a very large bers from Singapore have touched on number of subversive elements were something about the Peoples' Action held in Singapore; and if the "Plen" Party Government using the Police to was the communist boss, then why was defeat them, in order to make the the decision made by the Singapore Peoples' Action Party win the elections.

Government to allow the "Plen" to it seems that it is the destiny of the escape?
This, I think, is an important Peoples' Action Party to fight its question, and the people of this country, Opposition Party everywhere not only in these dark hours, would surely like in Singapore; so the scene of the politi- cal fight has to be brought here again today.

Sir, the February arrest, as everyone 'knows, involved a large number of people, but the people of Singapore were not disturbed at all by this arrest.
If this arrest was a wrongful one, I think, you will agree with me, Sir, that it will be reflected in the recent general elections.

The Barisan Sosialis would have won the elections, if the people said that the arrest was wrong.

(Applause).

You will recollect, Sir, there was also a big arrest during the Lim Yew Hock's Government and, as a result, the Lim Yew Hock's Government collapsed in 1959.

From this comparison, it is not difficult to draw the conclusion whether the to know the answer.
I hope, therefore, the Honourable the Minister will kindly give the reasons so that the people will know the true facts about the "Plen" and whether or not the "Plen" was, in fact, a person in reality.

The Minister of Internal Security and Minister of the Interior (Dato' Dr Ismail): (Rises).

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, on a point of information.

Just .

Mr Chairman : Not a very long one?


Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: No, just to say this : I have already gone to the High Street Police Station and made a report.

Mr Chairman: (To Dato' Dr Ismail) arrest was justified or not justified.

Please proceed.

Sir, another allegation made was that the Police had ill-treated political prisoners.

To this I would say that just recently Mr James Puthucheary and his brother Dominic Puthucheary had themselves admitted that they were quite well treated.
Thank you, Sir.

Enche' Chin See Yin (Seremban Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, every time the subject of my Ministry comes up, be it in the Budget debate, or in any other dabate, it always arouses very interesting debate, and I do not think the House can complain that it is a very dull Ministry.

Now, Sir, I would like as far as I can to reply to every Timor): Mr Chairman, Sir, it 15 011 Member who has spoken.
4459 8 JANUARY 1964 4460 Sir, the Honourable Enche' Ling made a report to the Police, the Police Beng Siew brought up the subject that made investigations and gave him there is no increase in the senior staff protection and, in fact, he himself of Police in Sarawak and the shortage acknowledged that he was grateful to of the Special Branch personnel.

Now, the Police who have established a Sir, I entirely agree with the comments Police post near his house.
In addition of the Honourable Member, but as he to that, of course, he has the spiritual will recall in my speech I pointed out help of his religious teacher that will that due to shortage of time my protect him, probably make him Ministry accepted the estimates put invincible to any assault.

(Laughter).

forward by the Sarawak Government.


I assure the Honourable Member that I am fully alive to the need of streng- thening of the Special Branch not only in Sarawak but also in Sabah; and the supplementary estimates, of which I spoke, will include an adequate increase in Police personnel in the various ranks employed by the Special Branch.

Now, in regard to his comment on the S.U.P.P.


ridding itself of com- munist sympathisers, I think, I have made this point quite clear in one of my speeches in this session that I entirely agree with him and that I have already assured the leader of the S.U.P.P.

that the Special Branch will only be too willing to give him that assistance, if he only has the courage to rid his Party of these communists.

Now, Sir, I come now to the Honourable Member for Kuala Langat.
I think my colleague, the Honourable the Deputy Prime Minister, has ade- quately replied to his allegations, and also this is vigorously supplemented by the Honourable Member for Johor Tenggara.

I only would like to add that, as the Minister of Internal Security, he seems to confuse me.
It is not often that I am confused, but in this case I am not only confused, but I wonder whether it is due to the fact that the Honourable Member is Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, on a point of explanation, he is im- puting motives.

There is no such thing as spiritual help or something, Sir.

It was advice.

I never mentioned anything about spiritual help or any other type of help, but it was advice.

I think it is rather presumptuous for the Honour- able Minister to .
Mr Chairman : But, if you think that the Minister is trying to impute im- proper motives, you should have stood up on a point of order not on a point of clarification.

Please proceed.

Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Chairman, Sir, I only mean that in my own conclusion of his having visited his religious teacher, because usually when a Malay sees a religious teacher he goes there to get " `azimat" to protect him from evildoers (Laughter) or from people who intend to do him harm.
Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, on a point of explanation.

Mr Chairman : (To Dato' Dr Ismail) Do you give way?

Dato' Dr Ismail: I do not mind, provided it is not too long !

Mr Chairman : We have only 25 minutes more to debate on this Head.

Make it shorter.
Make it shorter.

Enche' Abdul Aziz: As a matter of suffering from a persecution complex, fact, Sir, the Deputy Prime Minister or whether the Honourable Member is sent for him and he stayed with the what we say in Malay, "Gila Talak" Deputy Prime Minister for two days : that means when you divorce your the first question that the Deputy lovely wife and because you pine for Prime Minister asked him was, whether her, you suddenly get out of your mind.
I went to see my Guru in order to Of course, I refer to the fact that he.

topple the Alliance Government.

has been expelled from the Alliance Party.

Now, Sir, I think we need not worry too much the safety of the Honourable Member for Kuala Langat Dato' Dr Ismail: I need not dwell much longer on that.

Mr Chairman : I am not interested in because, as you can see, every time he that at all.

4461 8 JANUARY 1964 4462 Datu' Dr Ismail : No, Sir, I think we had better leave him to whatever com- plex he has.
I would go on to answer the observations made by the Honour- able Member for Ipoh.

Now, Sir, in regard to the Honourable Member for Ipoh, it is sometimes very difficult to answer his observations, because they are couched sometimes in legal, and sometimes not so legal terms, and they always convey more than one meaning.

So, I will try my best to answer what I interpret his observations mean to convey.

He has accused the Anti-Corruption Agency of misinform- ing the Prime Minister.
The Honourable Member for Ipoh has stated, or has used words to the effect, that in the Prevention of Corruption Act laws are specially made whereby an anonymous report can be investigated into and the evidence of one person, if believed by the Court although uncorroborated, is sufficient to convict another person.

As regards the first part, the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1961, makes the offences of corruption seizable offences.
Any report of corruption can be inves- tigated by the Police by using the powers of investigation of seizable offences under the Criminal Procedure Code and also those under the Act of 1961.

Some of the reports received are anonymous, but in order to invoke the powers under the Code, formal reports had to be made in writing in accordance with the provisions of the Code.

Only anonymous reports that are clear and more specific can be investigated, but reports that are vague are useless.
As has been stated in this House, over two hundred cases have been brought to book in the Courts since 1959.

Had it not been for these special powers, it might not have been possible to reach this figure.

As regards the second part of that observation, this is a legal point, and I am told that it is not only known to the Member for Ipoh, but which I am sure the Attorney-General himself is also fully conversant.
Whether any particular case should go for trial on an uncorroborative evidence of a person, is for the Attorney-General to decide on the legal as well as the factual aspects of the case.

Now, his second observation was that the Anti-Corruption Agency should perform its duties impartially and should convey the truth to the Prime Minister.

He goes on to say that the Agency had not told the truth in its letter to the Prime Minister, which was read out before the House recently.
Now, Sir, before touching on this letter issued by the Director of the Anti- Corruption Agency, I would like to explain to the House the actual roles that are being performed by the Agency in order to clear any doubts.
The Agency has to perform three main roles, namely (i) to co-ordinate anti-corruption measures throughout all Govern- ment Departments with a view to preventing opportunities for cor- ruption and corrupt practices; (ii) to educate the public on the evils of corruption and thereby incul- cate the feeling of contempt for those who indulge in corruption and corrupt practices; and (iii) to serve as a channel for the receipt of information or of allega- tions of corruption from members of the public.
The first role as is apparent deals mainly with preventive measures, and the second purely on educational as- pects.

Now, as a channel for receipt of information, contact can be made either through the post, or by telephone, or by personal interview.

Any information or allegation so received is passed on to the Special Crime Section of the Police for investigation.
Thereafter it becomes the responsibility of the Police to investigate and the Attorney-General, or his Deputy, to decide as to whether there should be any prosecution.

Now, Sir, there are many instances where reports are made direct to the Police without going through the Agency and more are received by the Police in this manner.

In fact, that is what actually happened in the particular case men- tioned by the Honourable Member for Ipoh.

He has mentioned Police Report No.


263 / 63 made in Jerantut, Pahang.

Now, this Report was not made by the Member for Ipoh, nor by any member of the public, but by a Police officer of the Special Crime Section, Pahang, 4463 8 JANUARY 1964 4464 subsequent to the accusation made by the Member for Ipoh against the Minister of Health before this House some time ago, and as a result of which there was a challenge by the said Minister that the Member for Ipoh repeat his accusation outside the House.
It is, therefore, glaring that the Member for Ipoh, having full and first-hand knowledge of the allegation, has failed to report to the Police but has chosen to seek the sanctuary of this House to accuse the Minister of Health of corrup- tion.

No doubt, he eventually accepted the Minister's challenge and repeated the accusation in public.
But, I am surprised that as a citizen of this country, and more than that as a legally qualified person, he should have failed in his duty to bring this to the notice of the Police, or the Anti-Corruption Agency.

Now, he has taken the advan- tage of again seeking the sanctuary of this House to accuse the Anti-Corrup- tion Agency of telling lies.
Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam (Meng- lembu): Sir, on a point of clarification, is the Honourable Minister denying that the complaints against the Minister of Health had not been made in writing earlier by other persons either to the Anti-Corruption Agency or to the Prime Minister himself?

Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I have said that it is the duty of the Member for Ipoh, as a citizen, to make a report to the Police.
It was only, Sir, after the Minis- ter's challenge that the Police came to know of this allegation through the reports in the Press the next day.

As a result, the Member for Ipoh was inter- viewed by the officer-in-Charge of the Special Crime, Enche' Yusoff, in Ipoh.

Subsequently, he was approached by another officer of the Special Crime to make a formal report.

This the Member for Ipoh flatly refused saying that he had already spoken to the Officer-in- Charge of the Special Crime he refused to do so.
Again, Sir, for the second time, the Honourable Member failed by refusing to make a report.

Now, it is clear that what has taken place was between the Member for Ipoh and the Police but not the Anti- Corruption Agency.
Thus the letter by the Director of the Agency was in clear and definite terms saying "As far as the Anti-Corruption Agency is concerned, there has been no allegation or report received from any source to the effect that a Minister or his wife has received $10,000 or any sum as bribery or corruption.

Up to date there is no record in the Agency concerning any allegation of bribery and corruption against any Minister or his wife."
There should be no question, there- fore, that the Anti-Corruption Agency has not acted impartially; nor could the accusation that the Agency has not told the truth in the matter be fair and justifiable in the circumstances.

Sir, the Honourable Member goes on to say that if the Anti-Corruption Agency says that the report made against the Minister of Health is false, why has the man not been charged for making a false report.
The Anti-Corruption Agency is not in a position to say that the report is false, nor is it an authority to say so or to decide that the man should be charged for making a false report, if any.

The Member for Ipoh should be well aware that the Attorney- General is the decisive authority.

Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam: On a point of clarification.

Could the Minis- ter tell us why the Attorney-General has not charged the man for making a false report?
Dato' Dr Ismail: I have no direct control on the Attorney-General.

But he is a legal man and it is up to him to decide on these legal things whether he should go on with it or not.

If I do that, then he will say I am directing 'the law.

Further he goes on to say that the Anti-Corruption Agency must have experts to deal with and probe into matters of corruption.

Then he asks, has the Agency got any experts?

That is one of his further observations.


The answer is that there is no question of experts being necessary in the detection and investigation of crimes generally.

Investigation is a police responsibility and not that of the Anti-Corruption Agency.

Corruption by itself is a crime and the police are sufficiently trained to investigate crimes of this nature.

Now, Sir, I come to the observation made by Enche' Tan Tsak Yu from 4465 8 JANUARY 1964 4466 wSarawak.
He mentioned the fact that the Special Branch in the Borneo terri- tories should be strenghtened and I think I have answered that observation earlier on in my reply.

Now we come to the speech by the Honourable Member for Kuala Treng- ganu Utara.

Jadi di-sini saya suka-lah hendak berchakap dalam bahasa Kebangsaan is-itu saya ini di-katakan menyalah gunakan Undang2 Keselamatan Dalam Negeri.
Yang kedua, dia menerangkan is-itu dua orang alim ulama telah di- tangkap dan di-lepaskan dan tidak pula kita mengatakan ada-kah orang ini merbahaya kapada negeri.

Yang ketiga, is-itu kursus patut di-adakan kapada Special Branch Officer sebab apa kata- nya, Special Branch Officer ini tidak tahu ma`ana subversion atau ko- munism.

Yang keempat, dia kata is-itu orang tahanan ini mesti-lah di-beri makanan yang tidak ada tachun' di- dalam makanan itu.
Yang kelima, dia kata is-itu orang yang kena seksa mithal-rya tiga empat orange.

tahanan itu tidak renti2-nya.

Dan ta' usah-lah _pakai chara2 gastapo atas orange yang di-tahan itu.

j adikan huru hara negeri Kelantan.

Bagaimana yang telah saya katakan orang yang di-tangkap itu kemudian di-lepaskan pertama-nya dia hilang fikiran dan dia sendiri membuat ke- nyataan.
Saya di-sini ada naskhah kenyataan yang sudah di-tape record- ingkan tetapi oleh sebab tidak ada masa Ahli2 Yang Berhormat hendak mendengar, tetapi kalau berkehendak- kan juga kita boleh adakan satu per- jumpaan dan kita boleh dengar record- ing yang telah di-buat itu.

Dan jika ada masa kita boleh membacha chadangan yang di-bawa oleh sa-orang daripada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dari PAS.

Saya berani membachakan dan Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dalam rumah ini boleh mendengar recording yang telah di-buat itu.
Saya perchaya is-itu tangkapan yang di-bust itu bukan-lah kita hendak menindas PAS.

Perkara itu di-buat-nya is-itu mengelakkan huru-hara terjadi dalam negeri Kelantan.

Dan .

atas me- lepaskan orang yang saya chakapkan tadi, kerana ada report daripada doctor is-itu mengatakan jika dia di-tahan dan di-soal, dia juga akan hilang akal.
Dengan sebab tidak di-katakan men- -j adi merbahaya lagi dia di-lepaskan dengan chara peri kemanusiaan tetapi j ika di-buat lagi apa yang di-lakukan- Yang pertama sa-kali, saya hendak nya saya sedia menangkap-nya.

berchakap terus terang is-itu saya tidak terima sa-kali2 tudohan yang menga- takan saya ini salah gunakan Undang2 Keselamatan Dalam Negeri.
Saya selalu mengatakan is-itu Undang2 ini telah di-perbuat oleh Parlimen dengan chara demokrasi dan saya sa-bagai sa-orang Menteri chuma menjalankan Undang2 itu dengan sa-berapa daya upaya saya clan saya perchaya negeri2 telah per- chaya dengan jalan2 yang saya telah jalankan kerja saya itu.

Saya tiap2 kali di-soal tentang tangkapan yang di-buat berkenaan dengan ulama ini chuma di- chakapkan yang dua orang sahaja te- tapi yang sa-benar-nya ada tiga orang.
Yang sa-orang lagi itu is-lah saya tidak suka hendak mengatakan di-sini is-itu oleh sebab dia sekarang telah hilang fikiran dan telah masok ka-Tanjong Rambutan.
Saya hendak berchakap terus-terang di-sini is-itu alim ulama yang di-tangkap di-sana itu is-lah saya katakan kerana dia menjalankan satu kerja atau gerakan yang akan men- Di-katakan kursus ini patut di- adakan supaya orange Special Branch ini tahu ma`ana subversion supaya jangan di-takut2kan party politik yang halal tudohan2 menjalankan subversion kapada Kerajaan.
Saya sangat2 megah kapada pehak polis kita kerana ada juga daripada ahli party Alliance party saya sendiri, kadang2 menga- takan polis ini tidak betul, jadi mana hendak saya dengar, pehak party saya- kah atau party PAS atau party2 lain.

Ini ada-lah menunjokkan pehak polls itu bekerja dengan tidak timbang sa- belah mana pun.

Di-atas soalan orange yang di-tang- kap itu di-beri makan boleh jadi di- katakan ada mengandongi rachun.
Tudohan sa-macham ini telah di-buat oleh salah sa-orang daripada party Pembangkang is-itu party Socialist Front.

Saya telah kaji dan telah di- pereksa is-itu jika betul-lah yang makanan itu telah di-berikan yang 4467 8 JANUARY 1964 4468 boleh merosakkan kepala, merosakkan kesihatan orang tahanan itu, berapa banyak-kah orang yang dalam tahanan itu fikiran -nya tidak hilang dan semua tidak mati ?

(Tepok).
(Tepok).

Dan tiga orang yang telah di -lepaskan itu pula mereka memuji bagaimana baik layanan yang telah di-berikan kapada mereka itu.

Saya tahu -lah apa ma`ana diayah ini tetapi tidak payah -lah saya keluarkan nanti di-tudoh yang lain pula.

Di-atas soal ini banyak juga Ahli2 Yang Ber- hormat yang lain hendak tahu jadi patut-lah saya berchakap dalam bahasa Inggeris.

It was alleged that the Special Branch adopted these archaic methods of torture to extract evidence from detainees .
Now, Sir, it has beer proved in many countries that torture is no longer an effective instrument if you really want to extract the truth from a person whom you have detained.

This has been proved, and why should we in this democratic country try this archaic and inhuman method when it has not been proved to be effective.
Atas satu tegoran Yang Berhormat dari Kulim Utara is-itu supaya police station di-adakan di-Badak dekat Baling kerana ada satu pertubohan siasah yang baharu yang telah meng- gunakan chara2 paksa dan meng- khianat orang di-sana, saya akan siasat-lah atas soal itu.

Now, I come to my old friend, the Honourable Member for Tanjong.
He tried to lecture to me on how a Minister of His Majesty 's Government should behave, basing his thesis on the fact that I had misbehaved myself by issuing threats to Members of this House and to political opponents, so that they could not effectively follow their legal political activities .

He cited the case that I even twisted the gesture made by his Party when he made a statement that he offered coalition with the Government on this matter.
Sir, unfortunately , the Honourable Member has a bads habit of disappear- ing from this House every time after making a speech , and consequently he could not follow what I said in relation to what he said in regard to this offer of coalition Government , as he was not here at that time .

However, as he is here today , I will tell him exactly what I said about his offer of national Coalition .

I said, Sir, "When we heard him speak , we were at first rather attracted .
Now, Sir, I think we can all echo to that statement if that is all that that statement implies ."

Then I went on to say , "But the Honourable Member for Tanjong qualified that statement ."

Having explained that wonderful sentiment of having a national Coalition , laying aside all political differences , he made a further qualification .
After having said that the nation is divided and all ' that , he went on to say, and I quote : "Let us make a national effort to establish peace with honour in this part of the world.

We ask the Honourable Prime Minister, as one gesture of sincerity, to release all political prisoners detained without trial."

Sir, I am, entitled to make my own conclusion to that kind of gesture.
On one hand you say, "We will co - operate with you" while on the other hand you say, " Release all these detainees who have been subverting the country", Now, what kind of gesture is that?

If you say , "Well, we will co-operate with you; form a coalition Government; we will stand behind you unqualified."

Then, I accept .
Then, I accept .

But the statement made was, "Release those detainees" people who were put inside , people who were trying to subvert the country, and who were trying to help the very cause of Indonesia as the member for Setapak has done.

What kind of gesture is this?

Now, Sir, he accused me of trying to intimidate Honourable Members on the Opposition by threatening them with arrest .
Sir, I always warn the Barisan so many Opposition parties now have the same flavour that I have made a slip of the tongue .

Sir, I always warn the Socialist Front that, "If you consciously or unconsciously associate with the Communists or pro -Commu- nists in time to come they will infect you with their way of thinking."

This is what has happened to the Honoura- ble Member for Tanjong.

He has twisted everything that I said.


I said "twisted" because what I actually said is, "I warn Honourable Members that if they go against the Internal Security Act as Members of Parliament, I will 4469 8 JANUARY 1964 4470 have no hesitation in arresting them."

(Applause) What is wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong, Sir.


It is better that I warn him (Laughter) saying that if he were to do this thing then he will be arrested rather than to take him quietly, when he has done the act, at 2 o'clock in the morning.

The Hon- ourable Member should be grateful to me rather than trying to give me a lecture on how a Minister should behave.

Now, Sir, I am glad that he accepted the challenge that his Party would go to the next election on this Internal Security Act.
But it is ridiculous for him to challenge me that I should go to the people and say : "You elect me, and I will deliver war."

What kind of insanity there is in that kind of sugges- tion?

(Laughter) It is ridiculous.

That is why, Sir, I warn Honourable Mem- bers again : "Please do your best to get rid of the Communists from your party, so that you will not be infected by them and have this type of thinking and this hallucination."

Now, Sir, I think enough has been said for the Honourable Member.
I totally reject his accusation that I have not behaved myself and that ridiculous challenge of his that I should go to the country saying that I will deliver war to them if they elect me to this House.

Enche' Tan Phock Kin (Tanjong): On a point of clarification, Mr Speaker, Sir.

Mr Chairman : We have very little time.

If you want to make an explana- tion make it as short as possible.
Enche' Tan Phock Kin: I am afraid, Sir, that in the course of his reply, the Honourable Minister of Internal Security either consciously or uncon- sciously, or perhaps deliberately, evade answering many important points raised by me.

Instead he chose to side- track the whole issue by introducing irrelevant arguments in his reply and by trying to make fun of some of the allegations.

Mr Chairman : What is the point you want to clarify?
Enche' Tan Phock Kin : I want the Honourable Minister of Internal Securi- ty to state, as I mentioned yesterday, whether it is the view of the Govern- ment that as far as the Government is concerned, it does not need any assis- tance whatsoever from the, Opposition, and that it is quite prepared to go it alone, as far as this issue of Indonesian confrontation is concerned; whether it is its desire that we should go to war now; whether it is the desire of the Government that it can only solve the problem by going to war; and whether the Minister concerned is in a position to speak for his Government, because it seems to me that in spite of his explanation, there appears to be a very clear contradiction between his reply and those given by the Honourable the Prime Minister.
Dato' Dr Ismail: I am glad the Honourable Member has given me a chance to reply to that point.

First and foremost, there is no difference of opinion at all.

It is just a matter of the way of saying the same thing.

Now, the Prime Minister, in his generosity, says : "There is( no war, so there is no need for coalition."

In his generous manner he said it that way.

The Deputy Prime Minister says : "Well, if you support the Government, there is no necessity for coalition."
But I, in my own frank way, Sir, I told him : "We reject that kind of coalition because it is conditional on the release of these saboteurs and these traitors."

(Applause) There is no difference at all.

So, I have answered him, I think.

Now, I come to the Honourable Member for Sarawak, Enche' Edmund Langgu anak Saga.

If I get him, right, he said we should engage more Special Branch officers.

I think I have given that assurance.


The other observation, which is by Wan, Abdul Rahman from Sarawak, is about the inadequacy of psycho- logical warfare and the Department of Information, and that expatriate officers should not usurp the role of Minis- ters and political leaders.

Sir, as regards the psychological warfare, we are much alive to this problem.

I must inform this House that the Government is making an urgent study or examination of the!

requirement.
requirement.

Regarding the 4471 8 JANUARY 1964 4472 comment that expatriate officers in the Borneo territories are usurping the role of Ministers and political leaders, I am afraid I do not understand what the Honourable Member means to convey, but if he would be kind enough to write to me, I will certainly look into the matter.

Now, Sir, I come to the observation from the Member for Pasir Puteh.
He began , I think, by speaking on anti- corruption matters, and I will bear in mind all the suggestions that he has made.

However, as regards his expres- sion of regret that the post of Inspector- General of Police being held by an expatriate and not by a Malaysian, I think I have made the position clear in my answer to that question.
As I have said , we need all the officers that we require, and it is common sense to retain the present Inspector - General of Police , not because our officers are not qualified but , as I said , because of his experience , his long association with the Police and with us ; it is because of the confidence in him and the con- sent of all officers that he will remain as our Inspector- General of Police until the time comes when we re- enforce our staffing position then his place will be taken over by a local man.
Then, Sir, he mentioned that the Police are not impartial in carrying out their duties, particularly in Kelantan.

He said that the Police have been an obstacle to people holding discussion group, which is not a public meeting in Kelantan, in that the Police started interfering and all that.

Sir, this is an allegation which is always made against the Police.

Rather than making a general allegation in this House, if any specific instance is reported to me, straightaway I will look into the matter.
Sir, as regards the arrests of religious teachers, I think I have replied ade- quately on that subject.

Now, I would like to reply to the Member for Bachok.

I think he is under the misconception that the secret service codes are really used by the such thing as a Secret Service in the Federation of Malaysia, and so the question of secret service codes being abused is not true.
In regard to the observations made by the Honourable Enche' Chia Thye Poh, the spokesman for the Barisan Sosialis, I am very grateful to the Honourable Enche' Ho See Beng for his adequate reply on that aspect of the observation on pre-Malaysia Day.

Sir, I would like again to warn Honourable Members -I do not care whether they say that I threaten them or not.
I would like to warn Honourable Mem- bers that any attempt to besmirch our Police or throw mud at our Police will carry no weight in the Federation, because the Police here have a high reputation and are very well regarded by the public.
The Police here are regarded as a friend of the public, and so any attempt by the Honourable Member to besmirch our Police here will result in the Honourable Member getting a very raw deal not from me but from members of the public, especially when so many members of his Party have not, figuratively speak- ing, been in tune with the thinking of the majority of the people in this country.
So, I treat this as a warning, or friendly advice better take my advice early rather than regret later on as some of the Members of the Barisan Sosialis have cause to regret.

It is better to heed my warning early.

Now, Sir, of course, the Honourable Member for Bungsar has as usual disappeared after he delivered his speech he is always keen.

to hear his own voice but not keen to hear the replies made to his observations.
Now, he has brought up the usual perennial about the Police abusing their power, that I am a Goebbels, Gestapo Chief, and that the Police are keen on breaking up legal strike so many of these perennials keep on cropping up whenever the Honourable Member speaks.

Sir, we all know that so far as this country is concerned, at least in the Semenunjong we have trade unions free to direct their activities so long as they conform within the law.

Sir, whenever Secret Service.


Well, I would like to the Police interfere it is only to preserve inform this House that there is no security and order not to break up a 4473 8 JANUARY 1964 4474 strike.

But, if the Honourable Member had a different interpretation, in other words that the Police should keep quiet whenever there is a strike even when there is a disturbance, there is insecurity, then I am sorry that we cannot agree with him : the Police will have to do its duty to keep order in the country.
It does not matter whatever accusation the Honourable Member may falsely hurl at the Police.

We know that the country will be with the Government and the people will stick with the Police.

The same Honourable Member also mentioned about causing physical injury and that they should use peace- ful persuasion .

Now, Sir, the Police I am proud to say that they are not eunuchs, they are not ladies are here as policemen , who are prepared to enforce the law whenever necessary.
I do not understand what is meant by peaceful persuasion.

When policemen are being knocked - on the heads by the strikers and prevented from doing their duty, how do you expect the Police to be gentle all the time ?

They must use force to meet force .

If it is necessary, I will back the Police , if the Police are being threatened when enforcing the law, to retaliate : It is a different matter from telling the Police : " You go and beat people".
It is entirely a different matter for the Police to defend them- selves , because the Police after all are human beings , and they must defend 'themselves .

So, no amount of untruths spoken by the Honourable Member in this House can detract from the fact that the Police in this country are well disciplined and well liked by the people and they are the custodian of our security .

I think , Sir, that is about all I have to say.


I think I have answered all the questions , and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to reply to all the observations made.

(Applause) Question put, and agreed to.

The sums of:- $2,096,604 for Head S. 39, $101,573,920 for Head S. 40, $37,250, 830 for Head S. 65M, $7,704,792 for Head S. 66R, and $9,404,690 for Head S. 67x1, ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
(Mr (Deputy) Speaker in the Chair) Heads S. 41- S. 44, S. d5H, S. 65N, S. 65P, S. 66Q, S. 67Q and S. 67R-- The Assistant Minister of Rural Development (Sarawak ) (Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Ya`kub): Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permission I beg to move on behalf of the Minister of Justice the various sums for each of the following Heads- Malaya- S. 41-Ministry of Justice S. 42--Judicial ... S. 43-Attorney-General ... S 119,216 ... ... 4,347,410 1,093,764, S.44-Public Trustee, Custodian of Enemy Property and Official Assignee ... .. 817,663 Singapore- S. 65k-Official Assignee Public Trustee ... S. 65N---Judicial ... S. 65P-Legal ... ... and ... ... 296,280 2,209,710 189,976 Sabah-- Sarawak- S. 66Q-Registrar-General ... 56,675 S. 67Q-Judicial ... ... ... 567,790 S. 67R--Legal ... ... ... 124,450 Head S. 41 Mr Chairman, Sir, I will now deal with Head S. 41 which relates to the Headquarters of the Ministry of Justice.
The expenditure under this Head for 1964 will be slightly less, by a sum of $427, than that for 1963.

There is no change in.

the establishment of the Ministry.

A small increase in personal emoluments amounting to $1,683 is due to incre- ments.

Under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, the total remains the same.

As regards Special Expenditure, the sum of $25,000 is again being sought for re-equipping law libraries.

This is the same as what was given for 1963.


Head S. 42 Turning to Head S. 42 Judicial, totalling $4,347,410, Honour- able Members will no doubt note that the overall increase of $265,446 under this Head for the year 1964 represents 6.5 % increase in anticipated expendi- ture.

The increase arises from the establishment on Malaysia day of three High Courts in Malaya, Singa- pore and Borneo, and the Federal Court with appellate and.

original.

jurisdiction in all three territories.


4475 8 JANUARY 1964 4476 This is in conformity with the agree- ment reached in the inter-Govern- owing to the growth of the Federal Court.

There is also a large increase mental Committee and also the provi- in the Transport and Travelling Vote, sions of Malaysia Act, 1963.

I need not elaborate on this point again, Sir, as this new set up is all too apparent.
The total increase in Personal Emo- luments for 1964 amounts to $185,246 and it arises mainly from the following Item (1)--Chief Registrar, Federal Court/ Registrar, High.

Court, Superscale "C": This post is created by the upgrading of the post of Registrar, Supreme Court, Superscale "E as it is felt that the responsibility of the post has been increased as a result of Malaysia.

Item (4)--Secretary to Lord President, and Item (5)-Secretary to the Judges'-2 posts.
These are expected as a result of the creation of the new posts of Lord President and two Judges of the Federal Court.

Item (15}-Deputy Registrar , High Court, Malaya, Superscale "H".

This post is created by the upgrading of one Timescale post of Senior Assistant Registrar as greater activity both in terms of volume, as well as responsibility of work , is experienced in the day to day court work under Malaysia.

The former post of Senior Assistant Registrar has now been abolished.
Item ( 16)--Senior President , Sessions Court, Superscale "H"-3 posts.

These posts are created by the upgrading of three timescale posts of President , Sessions Court.

The appointments of President , Sessions Court in large towns--in Kuala Lumpur, Ipoh and :Johore Bahru-require persons of consider- able judicial as well as administrative <experience .

The justification for the upgrading of these appointments has been felt for many years.
Under Malaysia, the number of posts for subordinate officers is also increased to cope with the increase in the number of personnel and the added volume of work.

Under Other Charges Annually Re- current, there is an increase of $80,200 over the 1963 provision.

The increase is unavoidable as it is anticipated that more postage and registration fees on overseas correspondence will have to be met as a result of Malaysia, and that more light and power will be con- sumed in 1964.
More part-time staff will have to be employed in 1964 to clean and upkeep the court houses •and compounds.

Additional copies of Law Books and Reports and more and the provision under this vote in 1963 has proved to be insufficient.

There is likely to be a greater number of court sittings held by Circuit Ma- gistrates to cope with the increase in the number of cases.
Besides, the Chief Registrar, and the Secretary to the Lord President will be required to travel extensively to Borneo and Singapore in connection with Appeals to the Federal Court.

Under Special Expenditure, the total provision required for 1964 is the same as that for 1963.

Head S. 43 Turning to the Attorney- General's Chambers Head 43, I would mention that there is a slight increase in the estimated expenditure in Personal Emoluments over the 1963 Estimates.
This is necessitated by the appointment of a Federal Counsel, who will be officiating as Deputy Public Prosecutor for the States of Kedah and Perlis.

It is not possible for the Legal Adviser to attend to Council meetings in these two States and at the same time conduct prosecu- tions in Court.

In addition, a Malay Translation Section for translating the laws from English to the National Language has been established in the Attorney-General's Chambers.
This section consists of one Assistant Parliamentary Draftsman, who is a Barrister-at-Law, two Malay transla- tors and two typists.

One post of G.C.S.

Clerk, Special Grade, has been deleted and in its place a Second Legal Assistant has been substituted.

There is also an increase of two office boys in view of the increased volume of work in these Chambers.
Under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, there is no significant increase in expenditure except for telephones, which is due to the increase in the number of officers in the Legal Department.
Under Special Expenditure, an increase of $9,850 is being sought to provide both the Attorney-General's Chambers and also the Solicitor- printed forms have to be purchased, General's Chambers with certain 4477 8 JANUARY 1964 4478 essential equipment and furniture, as appear in the Federal Estimates under well as to acquire furniture for the main this Ministry for the year 1964.

The office staff.
The office staff.

Head S. 44 The Department of Public Trustee, Custodian of Enemy Property and Official Assignee is a Department newly merged with effect from 1st April, 1963, under the control of the Public Trustee and Official Assignee as Federal Head.

Before the merger, a new Public Trustee branch office was established in Kuala Trengganu on 1st January, 1963.
In consequence, there is an increase of four to the Establishment with a corresponding increase of $31,452 for all the commitments on Personal Emoluments.

As for the expansion of this Department, there is now felt a need in the State of Pahang for the services provided by the Public Trustee as Official Administrator, particularly among the rural community in trust and estate matters.
With the opening of a Branch Office in Kuantan, Pahang, in 1964, it has been agreed that, with provision for six months, it will enable the Department to take appropriate action to proceed with the necessary arrangements to establish the new Branch Office with effect from 1st July, 1964.

A Trust Officer is to be recruited to take charge of the new branch.

As regards the Bankruptcy Section, under the same Head S. 44, there is an overall decrease of $19,546 on Personal Emoluments.
The total number of its personnel, however, remains un- changed.

Under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, there is only a slight difference in the Estimates which shows an increase of $300.

counterpart Departments concerned are as follows : (i) The Department of Official Assignee and Public Trustee; (ii) The Judicial Department; and (iii) The Legal Department.

I take Head S. 65H, which relates to the Department of Official Assignee and Public Trustee in Singapore.
Compared to the 1963 Estimates, there is an overall increase of $2,320.

Under Personal Emoluments, there is a slight increases of $230, due to the annual increments of salaries of the existing staffs, particularly Office Boys.

Under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, there is an increase of $300 in Minor Works and Repairs, and this would enable works of a minor nature to be carried out.
Under Special Expenditure, an increase of $1,790 is being sought to meet the 10% increase in Basic Pay and Expatriation Pay of the Accoun- tant to the Official Assignee and Public Trustee.

Under the Overseas Service Aid Scheme, the Inducement Allowance paid to Expatriate Officers has been increased by 10% of Basic Pay and Expatriation Pay.

The basic pay and expatriation pay of the Accountant is $14,800 and $3,000 per annum, and 10% is $1,788, which accounts for the increase.
The expa- triation pay and the additional allo- wance of 10% are recoverable front the United Kingdom Funds under the Overseas Service Aid Scheme.

The Accountant is a contract officer and his present three years' contract will expire on 18th August, 1964.

If renewal of his contract is approved,, the $11,000 will be released to provide for payment of his salary for the Under Special Expenditure, a whole of 1964. decrease of $1,715 is shown.
Head S. 65N Turning to the next Head S. 65H -I will now deal with Head S. 65N, the Judicial Department.

Head S. 65H (Singapore).

As the in Singapore, the increased expenditure House is aware, under the Malaysia Agreement certain Departments in under this Head for 1964 will be $350,450 or about 18.8% above the Singapore will become Federal after 1963 Estimates.

The increase is Malaysia Day, and it is therefore mainly due to the creation of addi- al; propriate that their Estimates should tional posts.
A sum of $66,400 has 4479 8 JANUARY 1964 4480 been included under the item "Legal the fact that owing to Malaysia, it is Expenses" for fees of Counsel assigned to defend in the "Pulau Senang" case; .a number of Other Charges Annually Recurrent items have been included in the Estimates in order to meet expenses which were previously met from block votes in the State Estimates .
There is also additional provision for purchase of law books, office furniture and equipment for the Federal Court and the two additional Courts for Judges.

Head S. 65P Finally, I now turn to Head S .

65P, i .e., the Singapore Legal Department.

Estimates of certain divisions of the State Advocate- General 's Department will be borne by the Federal Establishment .

I would mention that there is a slight increase of $4,5 29 in the estimated expenditure in Personal Emoluments over the 1963 Estimates .
This is necessitated by the creation of a new appointment , namely, the Legal Assistant and by the annual increments of salaries of the existing staffs.

Head S. 66Q-I will now deal with Sabah and Sarawak .

Turning to Head S. 660-Registrar-General , Sabah, this is a new department which will be established in 1964 to take over the non-judicial functions of the Adminis- trator-General.
The staff of the old Judicial Department , Sabah, has been divided between the two new departments, i.e., the Registrar -General 's Department, Sabah , and the Judicial Department, Sarawak, which should correctly be called the Judicial Department, Borneo ; and the only overall increase insofar as the Registrar -General's Department is involved , is one post of Registrar-General, Division I, Scale A ($1,420).
Small increases in Other Charges Annually Recurrent expenditure are also necessary following the creation •of the new department.

now no longer necessary for Sabah to reimburse Sarawak with its share of the cost of the combined Judiciary in the Borneo Territories totalling $91,100 as has hitherto been the prac- tice.

There is a true increase in expen- diture of $51,916.
The increase of $39,830 in the estimated expenditure in Personal Emoluments over the 1963 Estimates is mainly due to increments, increased rates of Inducement Allow- ance, re-grading of certain posts, con- version of salary scales and new posts are partly offset by transfers of five posts along with attendant functions to the Registrar-General's Department.

These new posts are, namely, one Court Interpreter, two Clerks, one Court Peon/Process Server, one Office Boy and two Clerk/Typists.
Head S. 67R Finally I turn to the next Head of Expenditure, S. 67R Legal Department, Sarawak.

It shows an increase of $26,964 over the 1963 Estimates.

This Department is split into State and Federal.

With the ex- ception of the Attorney-General, all officers in Division I become Federal Officers.

The increase of $12,164 in Personal Emoluments is principally due to in- crements, higher rate of Inducement Allowance payable to Designated Officers and payment of a Rent Allow- ance of 10% of basic salary.
Under Other Charges Annually Re- current, there is an increase of $12,300.

This is required to cover local ex- penses on miscellaneous expenditure, printing and stationery, and transport and travelling in respect of the Federal Officers in the Department.

Under Special Expenditure, an in- crease of $2,500 is being sought for the library.

A similar sum is provided in the State Estimates.


Wan Mustapha bin Haji All (Kelan- tan Hilir): Mr Chairman, Sir, since there is not much time left, I would Head S. 67Q-I now turn to Head like to confine myself to three items.

S. 67Q the Judicial Department, Firstly, I would refer to page 332, Sarawak.

It will be seen that there is Head 42, item (18) Yang di-Pertua, a decrease of $50,184 as compared to Mahkamah Tengah, that is President the 1963 Estimates .

The decrease is of Sessions Court.


Mr Chairman, Sir, not a true decrease and merely reflects the Presidents of Sessions Courts, 4481 8 JANUARY 1964 4482 under the terms of service, have to be or are qualified lawyers, but I am in- formed that at present if such persons are acting as Presidents of Sessions Courts, they are not paid acting allowance.
For instance, when a young lawyer comes back, under the Judicial Service Scheme, he receives about $600 per month and then, he is pro- moted to become President, Sessions Court.

Normally, Sir, he starts as a Circuit Magistrate, but when he is pro- moted to become President, Sessions Court, he is no more paid acting allowance formerly, it was probably about $720 in other words, his actual per month according to item (21).
Sir, if I remember correctly , it was the policy of the Government to send every Magistrate to England to be qualified .

That was in 1954 and now it is 1964 nearly 10 years.

As I said, the Government still needs qualified people to be on the Bench, and the result is that it has to engage senior members of the State Civil Service who are paid high salaries and such per- sons are not qualified .
So, unless act- ing allowances are paid to Presidents, qualified Presidents, we will find that one day these people will quit Govern- ment Service and start their own pay.

I think that is not fair.

First and practices.

foremost, all Presidents must be quali- fied before they become Presidents and the duties of a President, Sessions Court, are very great.

Presidents of Now, Sir, I would like to refer to page 337, item (13) Timbalan Pen- da`awa Raya, Kelantan.
It seems that Sessions Courts have got to keep up last year there was a provision of their self-respect, they have got to $11,724 and there is "nil" for this administer the law and, in fact, they year.

I understand that the former can even send people to prison.

Deputy Public Prosecutor has left the service on pension and, I think, there Sir, I remember that while I was a is no substitute.

In other words, in the Circuit Magistrate before I went to England -I was not even qualified.
I State of Kelantan, we have the Legal Adviser acting as D.P.P.

that is, he is was a Circuit Magistrate, and I was in doing two jobs, one as Legal Adviser the State Civil Service, when I became to the State, and the other appearing a Circuit Magistrate.

Though I was not even qualified, I was given an acting allowance, just because I was holding the post of Circuit Magistrate and in Court as D.P.P.

in respect of crimi- nal matters.


We have just heard from the Honourable the Assistant Minister just now that in Kedah and Perlis, certain respect and dignity must be they have got a separate man as upheld by the Bench.
So, if my in- D.P.P., because the same person, the formation is correct that young Pre- Legal Adviser, cannot attend to two sidents-qualified persons acting as places, as he has got to attend Legis- President of Sessions Courts are not lative Assembly meetings and Execu- paid acting allowance, then I think tive Council meetings.

If my recollec- that is wrong.

If the Government is not tion is correct, if Perlis has got a careful, these people will just quit the Legal Adviser and a separate D.P.P.
Government Service and start their own practice and we have heard from and Perlis is a smaller State why not the same be the case in respect of the Government that it is still in need Kelantan?

The present D.P.P., that is of qualified lawyers, qualified people, Tengku Rithauddeen, I think, is over- to be on the Bench.

There is proof worked.

He has got to appear in Court that even at present there are people on the Bench who are not even quali- and he has to advise the State in res- pect of legal matters.
Further, Sir, I do fied, and that means the Government not know whether there are still still needs people who are qualified : D.P.Ps who are not qualified, because for instance, Pengadil (Perkhidmatan in Kelantan, previously, we had one Tadbir Negeri)--I refer to items (21) D.P.P., who is a friend of mine and and (23) : these people are magistrates.

who has just left on pension.

He was They are not qualified.


They are re- not qualified and probably the Govern- cruited from the Civil Service and they ment will replace him with somebody are getting quite a high pay $837.50 who is qualified.

4483 8 JANUARY 1964 4484 Sir, I will now turn to page 333 P.E.O.

is on the acting allowance.

It again.

I would like to comment on was given about two weeks ago.

The Jurubahasa Interpreters.


In the Ses- sions Courts, and sometimes even in the High Courts, I would say with due Judicial Department was not con- sulted, but the matter is being taken up with the P.S.C.

by the Chief respect that we find Interpreters who, Registrar.

because of their lack of qualifications, have interpreted wrongly sometimes.
As a practising lawyer, I have to say this with great regret, and it is pro- bably because these Interpreters are not qualified probably they might have passed their School Certificate, but language is quite a difficult sub- Now, with respect to item (21) re- garding Pengadil, it has been men- tioned that the salary is personal to holder.

On the observation regarding the Legal Adviser in Kelantan acting as D.P.P., doing work as D.P.P.

as well ject.
as well ject.

To become Interpreters you need comparing it with the new post, the persons who are very very good in creation of one new post of Crown English; a person might obtain a dis- tinction, or Grade I, in the School Certificate, but if his English Language is just a mere "credit", then you will find that that Interpreter will find it very difficult to interpret from English into Malay.
I think the Government should select candidates not necessarily a Grade I candidate so long as he is very good in English and good in Malay.

The Government must insist that at least he must have a "credit" in Malay or probably "credit" at least in English : otherwise, you will find the interpretation not quite cor- rect; in fact, through experience there had been instances where the learned Judges had to bear with these Inter- preters.
So, I hope that the Govern- ment in future, when it recruits Interpreters, would choose people who are linguists capable of rendering very good interpretation.

Since there is not much time left, I think I will just confine on those three items.

Thank you.

Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Ya`kub: Mr Chairman, Sir, I am glad to see my Honourable and learned friend appearing again after so many days' absence.

I really missed him (Laugh- ter).


With respect to the first observa- tion made by him, there is a new ruling .

.. .

Wan Mustapha bin Haji Ali: On a point of explanation, Mr Chairman, Sir, a few days back he was in Kota Bahru, giving a speech in Padang Merdeka.

Counsel to act as D.P.P.

for Kedah and Perlis this is a matter within the discretion of the Government, the Attorney-General himself.

If it is con- sidered by the Government that a post of D.P.P.
is warranted in Kelantan as in the States I have just mentioned Kedah and Perlis then, of course, the Government might consider the matter; again, this is really a question of the volume of work.

In other States, per- haps, one also finds that the Legal Adviser is acting as D.P.P.

The D.P.P.

I mentioned for the States of Kedah and Perlis will officiate for the two States Kedah and Perlis.
Now, with regard to the Interpreter, Mr Chairman, Sir, I really sympathise with my Honourable colleague there, if he has experienced great difficulties in Court in not having "interpreters" who are not "good linguists".

This is a problem which one meets every- where, not only in Malaya, but also in Singapore, Sabah and Sarawak.

It is true, I quite agree with him, that we must have good interpreters : there is no doubt about it, but sometimes it is not so easy to get good ones.
Perhaps, this is because many of our young chaps, who are really good linguists good English speakers, or good Malay speakers would rather seek employ- ment somewhere else, or would go abroad for further studies.

I think that is all I need to say, Mr Chairman, Sir.

If on the question of this D.P.P.

for Kelantan, the Honourable Member feels that the Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Ya`kub: existing Legal Adviser is overworked, The flew ruling by the P.S.C.
and the then I would suggest that he discuss 4485 8 JANUARY 1964 4486 the matter with the appropriate quarter and consideration can be given in that respect provided, of course, there is someone to be sent to Kelantan.

Thank you.

67D (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Heads S. 45, S. 46, S. 47 and S. 48; S. 65E, S. 66L and S. 67C and S. Question put, and agreed to.
The sums of : $119,216 for Head S. 41, $4,347,410 for Head S. 42, $1,093,764 for Head S. 43, $817,663 for Head S. 44, $296,280 for Head S. 65H, $2,209,710 for Head S. 65N, $189,976 for Head S. 65P, $56,675 for Head S. 66Q, $567,790 for Head S. 67Q, $124,450 for Head S. 67R, ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Heads S. 45, S. 46, S. 47, S. 48; Heads S. 65E, S. 66L, S. 67C, S. 67D The Minister of Labour and Social Welfare (Enche' Bahaman bin Sam- sudin) : Mr Chairman, Sir, I shall take about half-an-hour to address the House on subjects under my Portfolio.

So, I suggest that we take them in the afternoon at 4.30 p.m. Mr Chairman : It can be continued in the afternoon.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Yes.

Mr Chairman: Would you like to speak now?

There is still another five minutes.


Do you like to have it now or in the afternoon?

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: In the afternoon.

Mr Chairman : Time is about one o'clock now.

The meeting is sus- pended to 4.30 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 12.58 p.m.

Sitting resumed at 4.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) r .

THE SUPPLY BILL, 1964 House immediately resolved itself into Committee of Supply.
Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permission, I would like to present simultaneously Heads S. 45, S. 46, S. 47 and S. 48 totalling $8,958,138, relating to the Ministry of Labour and Social Wel- fare and Heads S. 65E, S. 66L and S. 67C and S. 67D relating to Labour and Social Welfare in the States of Singapore, Sabah and Sarawak res- pectively.

The year 1963 has been one of con- siderable activity in the field of labour in Malaya.
This is mainly due to the increasing trade union activity in the country and the focussing of attention on some basic issues affecting labour which, in the past, were not in the forefront.

This tremendous amount of activity reflects the growth of trade unionism here and the freedom within which unions are formed and function.
Though some of the disputes that arose during the year received much publicity and gave rise to considerable concern to the Government and in the minds of the public, and though there are still both employers and trade unions, who disregard accepted pro- cedures and methods of settling their differences, I would say that we have made substantial progress in the field of industrial relations in Malaya.

The year under review has generally been one of cordial relationship be- tween employers and workers.
A signi- ficant development was that large groups of workers achieved substantial improvements in their wages and con- ditions of employment through collec- tive bargaining and joint agreement.

For the period January to November, 1963 there were less number of strikes and man-days lost as a result, as compared with the corresponding period in 1962.
Up to November, 1963, there were 63 strikes and one lockout resulting in the loss of about 95,000 man-days, whereas in 1962, during the same period, there were 81 strikes resulting in over 127,000 man-days lost.

The 1962 figures would be much 4487 8 JANUARY 1964 4488 greater, if the Railway strike which number of important measures to be occurred in December were added to considered by the Government.

In it.
In it.

However, in 1963, as in the previous going through the Report of this years, the majority of the strikes that took place were of very short dura- Committee, I am impressed by the thoroughness with which the subject tion, lasting between 1 to 3 days.

Many has been studied and the soundness of of these, too, I am sure could have the recommendations made therein.
been avoided if the processes of dis- The Report is now with the Govern- cussion and voluntary negotiation were ment and, therefore, it is not possible genuinely followed.

On the more con- for me to outline in detail the recom- structive side, there were over 40 mendations yet.

The Government at- negotiated agreements between workers taches great importance to any social and employers up to November this security scheme, which would be of year.
A number of new joint councils real and lasting benefit to the workers for both consultation and negotiation of this country.

The Government will, in various sectors of the economy were therefore, study the Report with great also established.

care.

Sir, the National Joint Labour Ad- visory Council has taken note of the fact that the lack of agreed procedures for joint consultation and negotiation and their effective implementation have been the main cause of unrest in certain industries.
The Council has, therefore, formed a Special Committee to study and streamline the procedures in this respect and to make these available to all employers and workers.
I have no doubt that the formulation of model procedures of this sort for the resolution of disputes and diffe- rences would contribute in no small Hon'ble Members would agree with me that the introduction of a compre- hensive scheme of Social Security is a major step for the improvement of the welfare of the workers and that once these measures are introduced, they cannot be withdrawn or unduly modi- fied.
It is understandable, therefore, that the Committee has taken some time in making its recommendations.

Not only has the Committee had to formulate and recommend the measures that can be introduced, it has had also to discuss and suggest the manner in which its recommendations can be measure towards the lessening of mis- effectively implemented.
Social Secu- understanding which, in the past, often rity experts all over the world, and the threatened to damage the voluntary International Social Security Associa- system of industrial relations that we tion itself, have stressed the need for have in Malaya today.

The coming year, Sir, is going to be a year of even greater constructive improvements in the welfare of work- ers of this country.
The most impor- tant step would be the possibility of introducing more comprehensive mea- sures of social security, through Social Insurance, in Malaya.

This House is already aware that a Committee under the Chairmanship of my colleague, the Assistant Minister, was established by the Government to study the Inter- national Labour Organisation Report on the feasibility of introducing a Social Insurance Scheme in Malaya.

This Committee had represented on it all parties who have an interest in the Scheme.
I am happy to state now that this Committee has completed its deliberations and has recommended a caution in the formulation and imple- mentation of Social Security Schemes.

I might mention here that the Commit- tee, except on only one subject, reached unanimity on all the recommendations in the Report and this alone is testi- mony of the earnestness and sincerity with which members of the Committee had studied the subject.
I would like, therefore, to pay tribute in this House to the good work put in by the Assis- tant Minister and all the members of this Committee in studying the I.L.O.

Report and formulating recommenda- tions to the Government.

I can assure this House that the Government's decision on these recommendations would be announced in the near future.

As from the 1st of January this year, shop assistants in this country would be receiving a new deal.
I have 4489 8 JANUARY 1964 4490 issued a Wages Regulation Order sti- pulating the minimum wage and other amenities for shop assistants to be effective from the 1st of this month.

I admit that this Order might only be a modest beginning-the minimum wage stipulated might not be entirely satisfactory to all concerned and the Order itself does not affect the entire country.
This can only be expected as this is the first Wages Council ap- pointed under the Wages Councils Ordinance and this Wages Regulation Order is also the first issued in this country.

The Wages Councils Ordi- nance, however, has suitable provi- sions for these minimum conditions to be improved and their area of application extended as time goes on.

The present Wages Regulation Order affects only shop assistants, as defined under the Weekly Holidays Ordinance.
I have decided to establish a separate Wages Council for employ- ees in Coffee Shops, Restaurants, Hotels and Bars and, possibly, Clubs, in respect of whom the existing Wages Council has not made any proposals.

The Order establishing this new Wages Council will be issued as soon as nominations for employers' and work- ers' representatives on this Council have been received.

Another Wages Council is in operation in respect of workers and employers in the Port of Penang.
I am happy to report that this Wages Council, too, has made con- siderable progress in the formulation of proposals for minimum wages and other conditions of employment for workers in the Port of Penang.

I hope to receive their proposals shortly and, if I find them satisfactory, will issue a similar Order for the Port.
I am also considering the possibility of estab- lishing Wages Councils in other indus- tries where the workers are not sufficiently organised into trade unions to be able to effectively negotiate with their employers for satisfactory condi- tions of service.

A survey is already being made and I can assure this House that more Councils would be established where and when necessary.
The Government is also seeking the assistance of an expert from the United Kingdom to advise and assist us in the operation of Wages Councils and the enforcement of Wages Regu- lation Orders.

Referring to the Port of Penang again, Sir, the Government is aware that the Wages Council will not solve all the problems facing port workers.
I am happy to announce that the Inter- national Labour Organisation has already provided us with an expert to formulate and introduce a scheme of registration for port workers and their employers.

The expert, Mr I. W. Freathy, has already arrived in this country and been briefed in my Ministry.

He has already proceeded to Penang where he will make a study of the working conditions of waterfront workers there, before he frames the enabling laws for the introduction of the registration scheme for the Port.
The Government has decided to esta- blish a new statutory body to adminis- ter the scheme of registration for dock workers and their employers in the Port of Penang.

I hope that the law to enable the introduction of the scheme can be introduced in Parlia- ment this year itself and the Scheme implemented soon thereafter.

I turn now, Sir, to the question of employment.


This House was informed last year that a survey was being undertaken of the employment, un- employment and under-employment situation, jointly by the Statistics De- partment and my Ministry.

This survey has now been completed and the Report is being studied by the Govern- ment, before it is released to the public.
When provision for the survey was sought in the House last year, it was pointed out that the survey would provide the necessary information for sound and purposeful economic plan- ning.

Planning in the field of employ- ment, in the last 5-Year Plan, was unfortunately made difficult by the lack of up-to-date information on the manpower and employment markets.
With the results of the survey now at hand, the Government is happy to state that realistic and adequate plan- ning for employment can and will now be undertaken.
The Government has decided to establish, within the Eco- nomic Planning Unit of the Prime 4491 8 JANUARY 1964 4492 Minister's Department, a new Man- power Planning Section which would work in close consultation with my Ministry and other Ministries con- cerned to enable the National Deve- lopment Planning Committee to give adequate consideration to manpower and employment problems.

The Government has already plan- ned an extensive training programme for the unemployed youths of this country.
A pilot project has already been started in Seremban where 70 youths selected through Employment Exchanges are being trained in rubber tapping and processing and 10 in motor-car servicing.

A scheme for padi harvesters in Kedah has also recently been launched.

Other training projects are being drawn up and would be introduced as soon as the plans are finalised.
I should perhaps emphasise that these training courses are not relief projects but intensive courses of training to provide a certain measure of skill to persons, who do not possess them in the trades where skilled craftsmen are most in demand.

I have found that the majority of the persons unemployed in this country are per- sons who have no saleable skills, training, experience, or much educa- tional qualifications to boast of.
These training courses are now planned not only to provide skills to our young persons but also to enable them to play a more active part in the deve- lopment and life of our country.

The training of apprentices, under the National Apprenticeship Scheme, continues to receive the attention of my Ministry.
More and more employ- ers, having realised the need for effi- cient and able workers for the proper maintenance and progress of their undertakings, have come forward to participate in the National Appren- ticeship Scheme.

Today there are more than 600 apprentices registered with the Board.

My Ministry, consequent on the growing demand, has during 1963, opened three new Apprenticeship Training Centres, one in Kota Bharu, the other in Seremban and the third in Johore Bahru.
The Centre in Kuala Lumpur has also been expanded to allow more apprentices to be trained.

The Board, therefore, has at the moment six Centres, the other two being in Penang and in Ipoh.

The Industrial Training Institute, which was expected to be ready during this year, owing to unavoidable cir- cumstances, would only be ready in June next year.
This Institute will be the first of its kind in this country and will offer full-time training with resi- dential facilities to apprentices of industries throughout the country.

In- structors for the Institute have already been recruited and are being trained by I.L.O.

experts, under the I.L.O.

Technical Assistance Programme.

The Australian Government has also made available three places for the training of Instructors in Australia in 1964.
When this Institute is in full operation, the output of trained workers would naturally increase.

I would like to assure Hon'ble Members that my Ministry would spare no efforts in finding ways and means to increase yet further the output of trained workers.

For the Department of Social Wel- fare, reference was made last year to plans for the development of services for the physically handicapped.
These plans have now been drawn up and will be put into operation as soon as the Rehabilitation Centre for the physically handicapped, now under construction, is completed some time in 1964.

In order to develop the ser- vices in accordance with modern techniques and trends, an I.L.O.

Voca- tional Rehabilitation expert will be made available to the Department also in 1964.
The plan aims at developing residual resources of the handicapped to enable them to become economically independent citizens in the shortest possible time.

The consolidation and expansion of services for children continued in 1963.

Two new Children's Homes have been built and are already functioning in Kuala Kangsar and Kuantan.

The new Homes are designed to provide chil- dren in need of the atmosphere and care obtainable in a normal home.
Every encouragement will be given to the strengthening and development of voluntary youth movements.

Train- ing courses have been intensified and 4493 8 JANUARY 1964 4494 a modern National Youth Training Centre, which is now under construc- tion in Kuala Kubu Bahru, will come into operation some time in 1964.

A model youth Centre has also been built in Kuala Lumpur to provide for the needs of local youths.
The rapid development and expansion of youth organisations has given rise to the need for an effective co-ordinating body to avoid overlapping and wasteful dupli- cation of services for youth.

My Ministry is, therefore, considering the formation of a body that will effec- tively co-ordinate all youth organisa- tions activities in this country.

The rehabilitation of persons be- coming victims to prostitution is also being considered.

This will generally some duplication of functions.


Atten- tion had been given towards the co- ordination of the activities of these organisations in order to obviate duplication and also to ensure planned development of voluntary social and welfare services geared to meet the needs of the community.

I am happy to announce that my Ministry has convened a meeting of all the repre- sentatives of national voluntary wel- fare organisations and a National Social Welfare Council has been formed.
This Council will have well defined powers of decisions and sanc- tion designed to stimulate interest and to enhance their scope of operations, standard of work and service.

With Malaysia, Sir, the scope of our include caring for them both physi- activities has been expanded to cover cally and morally.

Further, the the other component States.


Singa- rehabilitation programme will lay pore, however, enjoys autonomy in emphasis on the re-education of per- sons falling victims to prostitution giving them a new concept of life and labour though some aspects of social welfare are on the Federal List and provision for these has been included instilling in them the liking for res- in the Estimates for 1964.

Labour in pectable employment.


They will be trained for vocations preferably of their own choice, which will offer them both Sabah and Sarawak are Federal matters.

It is inevitable, Sir, that there should be some form of co-ordination self-support and dignity in life.

Where of policies and development activities possible suitable employment will be and uniformity of legislation, wherever found for them.
To this end, a re- possible and desirable, in labour and habilitation centre for the victims of prostitution will be built in Cheras, social welfare matters.

The necessary steps to this end are already being Selangor, and will come into opera- taken.

tion some time in the middle of 1964.

I would like here to pay tribute to the many voluntary welfare workers and organisations which in the course of the year had in no small measure contributed to ease the suffering of the needy.
Voluntary effort is an essential element in the provision of welfare services for the community.

It is the policy of the Government to encourage voluntary organisations to continue and expand their activities in the field of social welfare to supplement what the Government is doing.

However, arising from the aftermath of World War II, many of the voluntary welfare organisations came into being piece- meal to meet the post-war social problems.
Consequently, as these organisations grew independently of the others, there had been not only a multiplicity of organisations but also Coming now, Sir, to the detailed provisions for the services in Malaya, I have mentioned just now, Head S. 45 provides for the Ministry, Central Apprenticeship Board and the Registry of Trade Unions.

Under this Head, there is an overall increase of only $25,000.
This small increase is for additional staff requirements for the Central Apprenticeship Board and the Registry of Trade Unions and, in res- pect of our contribution to the Inter- national Labour Organisation for the year 1964, where there is an increase of $18,000 in keeping with our pre- scribed percentage of the I.L.O.

Bud- get, which has itself increased.

This, Sir, is an inescapable commitment and will have to be met.
Hon'ble Members will observe, too, that the provisions for the Registry of Trade Unions are now included under my Ministry for 4495 8 JANUARY 1964 4496 the first time, instead of under the Ministry of Interior.

one House Assistant under Item (36) for the vagrants Ward at Ayer Kroh.

Coming to Head S. 46 for the Department of Labour and Industrial Relations, the increase for 1964 is $174,777.
The bulk of this increase is under Personal Emoluments on ac- count of normal increases in salaries, as well as to provide for additional posts to man the expanded services provided by that Department.

New Employment Exchanges are proposed for Raub and Kuala Pilah, and exist- ing Employment Exchanges will be strengthened by the provision of addi- tional staff.
The Youth Employment Section of the Department is being provided with one additional post of Junior Assistant Commissioner to undertake the work of Occupational Research.

The addition of staff as mentioned above and the increased tempo of the Department's activities have also necessitated the increase of a sum of $15,000 under Transport and Travelling in Subhead 7.

Under Head 47 for the Machinery Department, there is a net decrease of $3,225.
This is due to savings affected by the reduction in the number of posts of Inspectors of Machinery under Subhead 1 Item (4).

There is no appreciable increase under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, while under Special Expenditure the provi- sion of a car, necessary for the trans- portation of officers of the Depart- ment, has increased the 1964 provision under this Subhead by about $3,000.

The provision for the Department of Social Welfare comes under Head S. 48.

The net increase here is $416,252.


The increase is mainly due to Sub- heads 16 and 33, totalling $310,750 being contributions to Boy Scouts and Girl Guides Associations and National Association of Women's Institute which, in 1963, appeared under the Ministry of Health.
Under Personal Emoluments, the increase of $63,966 covers normal salary increments plus provisions for new posts of one Trade Instructor, Special Grade, under Item (15), four Trade Instructors under Item (32) for the Rehabilitation Centre I shall now deal with Supply Head 65E, Social Welfare, Singapore.

Sup- ply Head 65E, totalling $170,508, Sir, is in respect of Social Welfare for the State of Singapore.
The provisions sought are for the Probation and Aftercare of offenders, which, under the Malaysian arrangements, is a Federal subject.

The Probation and Aftercare De- partment in Singapore will be headed by an Assistant Director, provision for which appears under Item (1).

Five additional posts of Probation and Aftercare Officers have been provided for under Item (3) to cater for the 5 officers, who would be completing their course in Social Studies at the University of Singapore.
Items (4), (5) and (6) provide for the ancillary staff of the Department.

Under Subhead 2 -Bursaries for Diploma in Social Studies, a sum of $22,000 is sought for the purpose of training a further 10 Probation and Aftercare Officers in the University of Singapore.

The course in Social Studies leading to a diploma at the University is a two-year course.

Therefore, the provision sought under Subhead 2 in- cludes the Bursaries for the 5 awarded in 1963 and the additional 5 to be awarded in 1964.
Now, Sir, I come to Supply Head 66L Labour in the State of Sabah.

The 1964 Estimates of Federal Expen- diture in respect of the Department of Labour, Sabah, totalling $256,981 appear under Head 66L.

Sir, since the formation of Malaysia, Labour in Sabah has become a Fede- ral responsibility.
However, the Inter- governmental Committee had agreed that, for an interim period, the Com- missioner for Labour and Welfare in Sabah should remain in charge of the Department of Labour in Sabah but being directly responsible to the Federal Minister.

The Estimates for 1964 in respect of Sabah show an overall increase of $33,667 over the 1963 Estimates.
The for the Physically Handicapped and increases sought are largely to enable 4497 8 JANUARY 1964 4498 the general expansion of the services Enche' V. David : Mr Chairman, Sir, provided by the Department to meet this is the first Estimate for the the needs of a rapidly developing Ministry of Labour after the inclusion economy.
The increases under Personal Emo- luments are to provide for the crea- tion of a new post of Assistant Com- missioner of Labour for an office in the West Coast , which is now covered by the Commissioner 's office in Jesse!- ton and also for additional posts of Labour Inspector and Registration Officer, to cope with the increasing trade union activity in the State.

of Sarawak, Sabah and.

Singapore.


While the agreement for Malaysia was being drawn up, Singapore stated very clearly it would have autonomy on labour.

This was mainly because the labour legislation and the policy adopted towards labour by the Singa- pore Government is far different from that enjoyed by the workers in the Federation of Malaya.
When com- pared with Singapore, I can safely say that we are twenty years back in regard The increases under Other Charges to what we find in Singapore today Annually Recurrent and Special Ex- penditure arise from the expansion in the services I referred to just now.

Provision has also been included for the purchase of outboard engines under sub-head 9 to facilitate the in- spection of timber camps on the East Coast, most of which are in remote areas accessible only by river.
Lastly, Sir, I now come to Sara- wak-Labour and Social Welfare.

Heads 67C and 67D , Sir, totalling $193,946 , relate to Labour and Social Welfare in Sarawak.

As is the case with Sabah, it has been agreed that for an interim period, the Commissioner of Labour, Sara- wak, would remain in charge of the Department in Sarawak , being directly responsible to me as the Federal Minister .
The Sarawak Labour Laws would remain in force, but there would be a gradual move towards a common Malaysian Labour legislation.

The increases sought in Head 67C are due mainly to the opening of two new offices in Sibu and Miri and to expansion in staff.

An increased sum of $12,000 has also been provided under sub-head 4 to cover additional transport and travelling charges ex- as far as labour is concerned.
Labour legislation, including that dealing with industrial relations, even though one does not fully endorse it, is much more progressive than that of the Federation of Malaya.

Sir, I have been a critic of the Trade Union Ordinance , 1959 , from the time it was introduced into this country.

To my knowledge the Trade Union Ordi- nance of 1959, which is in force in the Federation of Malaya , is much more backward than the Trade Union Enactment which was in force during the colonial period.
We have not gone forward , but instead we have gone backward .

The legislation on the regis- tration of trade unions provided in this country contravenes and is in breach of International Labour Organi- sation Convention No.

87, which guarantees the freedom of association.

According to this Convention, a trade union formed by workers need not be registered , and it is free from all legislative powers and it functions as a body of the workers organised by the workers.

However , the legislation in.


this country has a large number of provisions which are very restrictive and they curb the activities and the progress of trade unions in this country.

pected to be incurred as a result of a This is not only the case in respect of more intensive drive to enforce labour legislation in the State.

Supply Head 67D provides for normal salary increments and expan- sion of the Federal Social Welfare Services in Sarawak.

Sir, I beg to move.

the Trade Union Ordinance .


The same applies to the Employment Ordinance of this country .

The Employment Ordi- nance guarantees protection in every respect to the employer .

The Employ- ment Ordinance assures the right of an employer to hire and fire.
The employer maintains the prerogative 4499 8 JANUARY 1964 4500 right to dismiss an employee by was not secure to ratify this Convention notice if he is monthly paid by a because of communist threats and month's salary or a month's notice.

subversive elements.

This has been the This has been abused by employers excuse from the time Malaya attained wherever and whenever the employer independence .

I can bluntly ask the has found active unionists among his workers.
This provision of the legis- lation has been applied to dismiss a worker who has been in the trade union movement.

When such dismissals take place, it is impossible to prove that the employee concerned was dis- missed because of his participation in the trade union movement.

The Government to answer , "Is there any progress on the part of trade unions, compared to other countries, after independence ; is freedom enjoyed by the trade unions in this country?

No.
No.

Besides, all trade unionists are being sacked and at times detained under the Internal Security Act.

As a result, the trade unions have been unable to make employer can easily and safely frame steady progress in this country.

gress.

The trade union movement in on a lockout ; the strike at Kota Bharu other charges under different pretexts and dismiss a man for his trade union activities.
Since this has become very common in this country, the trade unions have been unable to make progress like other countries in other parts of the world.

The policy itself of the Government has been very hostile towards workers and pro-em- ployer in nature, and every legislation in this country is in one way or other abetting and aiding employers against the workers.

Mr Chairman, Sir, if this state of affairs continues, I am afraid there can be no progress in the field of trade unionism.
I cannot agree that after independence the trade union movement has made tremendous pro- this country could have made more progress if a climate could be created by the Government for its progress, but instead the Government has thought it fit to introduce► legislation protecting employers and vested interest employ- ers.

Most dignified employers, who enjoy public confidence and status in this country, have used this law to exploit workers and dismiss workers under one pretext or another.
Sir, the International Labour Organi- sation is an organisation of employees, employers and Government.

The Malayan Government is a full-fledged employer of the I.L.O.

but the Con- ventions adopted by this Organisation have not been ratified by this Govern- ment.

When a motion was moved some time back for the ratification of the I.L.O.
Convention 87, the Government stated its reasons basing purely that it While I am against the legislation and the weak-kneed policy of the Govern- ment towards labour, I cannot for a moment hesitate to congratulate the Minister of Labour for his personal and sincere efforts in the discharge of his responsibilities as Minister of Labour.

Mr Chairman , Sir, the state of affairs of the working class in this country needs serious consideration on the part of the Government .
You will see that today there are three or four strikes, which could have been easily settled.

The Malayan.

Breweries is on strike; Yeo Hup Seng is on a lockout by the employer; Nanyang Siang Pau is also is just settled ; the threat of a strike in Malacca pending .

Sir, lockouts by employers have become extremely common.

Nanyang Siang Pau has staged a lockout .

At the early stages it closed one.


of its sections, by depriv- ingf employment for forty workers, and now continues with the other sections whereby forcing the workers to stop work, and the employer is staging a complete lockout .

Is there any legis- lation on the part of the Government to act?

The answer will be "No."

The answer from the Government will be, "The employer has a right to lockout; the employer has a right to lockout as the workers go on strike ."
This will be the taperecorded answer by the Govern- ment.

Mr Chairman , Sir, if we go at this rate , where are we going to end?

The employer , when he stages such a lockout , has always the ulterior inten- tion to remove the existing workers who are members of the trade unions 4501 8 JANUARY 1964 4502 and replace them by new workers with a different scheme of employment and poor wages.
This has, been done in the Art Printing Works where the Manage- ment locked out and the Government was unable to do anything; and finally the Company has resumed work after a few months by recruiting new workers.

The same tactic is being applied by the employer of Yeo Hup Seng and the employer of Nanyang Siang Pau.
If the Government is sincere towards the workers, the Government request has been on the workers to sacrifice; every legislation in this country has been on the workers and not on the employers.

Not only in this industry it has happened, but even in industries which have been offered pioneer status.
What has happened in industries, which have been offered pioneer status is exploitation in the largest degree, sweated labour, wages paid far below the standard which an average Malayan worker receives in this country.

The foreign investors must tell the employer, "Either you come to this country with a hope of operate the factory with moral obliga- tions towards the workers or leave having sweated labour as enjoyed by them in Hong Kong and in African your business completely and hand countries.
Sir, all these can only be it to people who will be in a position protected by adequate and sympathetic to run industries."

Sir, industry is not one-sided.

Industry has social and moral obliga- tions towards the nation.

An industry cannot alone function with the pure motive of profit-making; it has other obligations too towards the country.

These employers (which I mentioned just now), I can safely say, are anti- national and anti-social.

Such employ- ers cannot be allowed to remain in our midst.
The Government should act, it should act vigilantly; and it cannot sit and watch the plight of the workers of this country.

If it does act, then at least it has a small degree or a small element of sympathy towards the workers in this country.

Sir, I understand the employer of Yeo Hup Seng has gone to Singapore after staging a lock out.

He has not been available for contact either by the Ministry or by the workers.
He has absconded to Singapore, waiting for the employees to disperse, so that he can recruit new workers.

This has set a precedent to other companies where employers take advantage of the Government's unrealistic and weak- kneed labour policy.

If the Government is armed with the power to tell the employer that the nation's interest should come before industry, then the employer will be afraid of the Govern- ment.
As it is today, the employer has been given the free choice either to close away the factory or to exploit to any degree without any restriction on and liberal labour legislations in this country.

If the Government is not prepared to assist the working; class in this country, then you will take it for granted that it is a pro-employers Government and a Government that is abetting and aiding vested interests to exploit the working class.
Mr Chairman, Sir, another grave concern which arises in this country is mass unemployment.

Unemployment has been increased in this country due to various reasons.

Malaya today is introducing new industries and mecha- nisation is being day to day introduced.

This creates technological unemploy- ment.

Then by nature we have in this country seasonal unemployment, where people from the rural areas flock into the towns when there are no crops in the rural areas.
Then you have another form of unemployment in the ports, especially in Penang and Port Swetten- ham, due to confrontation and the Government is unable to find a solution to this problem.

Further unemployment arises from the educated group, where every year we have a large number of men and women passing out from schools.

There is no concrete or positive planning to absorb the growing unemployment in this country.

The Government itself is not armed with figures.


If you ask the Government to provide any data on unemployment, it is impossible for the Government to provide the same.

In other countries the Department of Planning is a very, him.

Every time the Government's very important Section in the Ministry 4503 Section.

8 JANUARY 1964 4504 of Labour and the Government has not allocated funds to provide such a Mr Chairman : Order, order !
lithe Government has not provided any funds, you cannot talk at all on the policy of that service.

You seem to go to the general policy again.

If you want in industries, the growing unemploy- ment due to confrontation , and also the regular seasonal unemployment.

This has to be classified in different cate- gories , analysed objectively in order to find a solution to the problems.
Coming to the estate workers, the estate workers have remained as they to appeal to the Government, you can were in the days of immigrant labour.

do it by way of a suggestion or appeal Their plight has not changed and their to the Government.

You are only conditions have not improved.


The allowed to speak on the policy of the rubber planter still treats the workers service for which money is provided, in the same way as he used to treat the but you have already admitted before workers in those old days of immigrant the House that there is, no money labour .

His attitude towards the wor- provided for that purpose.

You have kers has not changed and the workers got to be very careful.

Enche' V. David : Sir, planning is very important.


In the speech of the Minister he says his Ministry will be co-ordinating with the Prime Minister's Department on economic planning.

I would suggest that there should be a separate department for this purpose.

We must have figures of unemploy- ment.

If we do not have the correct figures and data, it is impossible for the Government to find a solution to this growing menace.
Sir, unemployment degrades and undermines the integrity, dignity and morale of the youths of this country.

Unemploment can bring largescale destruction to our society.

Mr Chairman : The question of un- employment is not the point at issue.

You have got to be very careful.

Enche' V. David : But the Minister spoke on it.

Mr Chairman : But you should not dwell so long on that question, because that is not the point at issue.

That I must warn you.

Enche' V. David : We have got Employment Exchanges.
Sir, for the registration of the unemployed.

Mr Chairman : Are you going to argue with me?

have not been offered a standard enjoyed by the workers in the urban areas .

This is of urgent concern to a developing country .

While the urban population enjoys a certain standard, the same standard should also be extended to the workers living in estates and the rural areas.
Sir, the estate worker is insecure in his employ- ment ; the conditions are so bad in estates that when thrown out of em- ployment the estate worker has no other alternative except to take his belongings and his family and march towards the Labour Department.

Sir, this state of affairs should discontinue and this can only be discontinued if appropriate legislation is enacted by the Government .

Sir, the estate worker is no more an immigrant labourer.
He is as respectable a citizen as the others are in this country .

He has a right in this country and he plays a great part in the national economy and , rubber being the nation 's live-wire , the workers working in this industry should be provided adequate protection by legis- lation.

Sir, coming to the Labour Depart- ment, some of the workmen 's compen- sation cases have been pending for a year or more.
Cases brought to the Labour Department for appropriate investigation has not been promptly Enche' V. David: I am not arguing dealt with .

There is an attitude prevail- with you, Sir.

Mr Chairman : Please proceed.

ing in certain branches of the Labour Department to push around the com- plainants and delay as far as possible Enche' V. David : Thank you.

So it in dealing with their cases.


Where an is very important for the Government employer should be prosecuted in a to realise the growing mechanisation court, it has not been done so.

They 4545 8 JANUARY 1964 4546 have been very sympathetic towards employers and, as a result, the poor worker has been pushed from pillar to pillar.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I call upon the Minister to look into the reasons for such delays.

I have reasons to believe that the department is not staffed with adequate officers.
If it is so, I call upon the Ministry to find ways and means to provide more staff in the Ministry of Labour, especially in the Labour Department, to cope up with the grow- ing demands made on it in regard to workmen's compensation cases.

If the legislation is to be properly and effec- tively implemented, then there should be enough staff in the Labour Depart- ment.

Sir, the trade unions in this country, and generally the workers in this coun- try, completely oppose compulsory arbitration.
The Government has been considering the introduction of com- pulsory arbitration to prevent strikes.

As far as the trade unions point of view and the workers point of view are concerned, we completely oppose any move by the Government to have compulsory arbitration.

This will take away the right of bargaining on the bargaining table.

It will destroy the growth of trade unions.


We oppose compulsory arbitration because we are fully convinced by past experience that we do not have experienced arbitrators in this country who can sit in arbitra- tion courts and go through a case on industry and trade unions.

Until such time as the Government is in a position to have people with eminent experience on trade unions and industry, it is a dangerous thing to introduce compul- sory arbitration.
The Malayan Trade Union Congress, being the national centre of the workers in this country, have viewed this move with concern and strongly feels that compulsory because the arbitrator in this country is not conversant with the labour laws in this country and industrial problems and his decision, we have found through experience , more or less has been biased and, therefore, we oppose it in the strongest terms and urge that the Government should drop the idea of introducing compulsory arbitration.
Mr Chairman, Sir, the Minister in his speech made reference to the estab- lishment of a Penang Dock Labour Board .

If I remember correctly, Sir, this has been in abeyance for a number of years.

When , in the early stages, the Government agreed to appoint a Wages Council , we rightly pointed out that a Wages Council cannot be a solution to the prevailing factors in the Penang Port .
A properly established Dock Labour Board can only find a solution to the deteriorating situation which has been created by employers and by casual labour in the Port of Penang.

And today , I understand, an expert from the I.L.O.

has arrived .

I do not know how long it is going to take for this expert to make his report.

I call upon the Minister to take early action.


The matter has been hanging for the last four or five years and it is only right that early action is taken to intro- duce a Dock Labour Board whereby all employers and employees can be registered , and casual labour will be absent .

Sir, casual employment , casual and contract labour in the modern era is an evil in our society .

It is not only an evil but it has a far -reaching effect on the moral of the society itself.

Therefore.
Therefore.

I strongly urge the Govern- ment that casual employment should not be allowed to operate; and any employer trying to introduce casual employment should be barred by legislation.

Sir, in Penang the employers have arbitration should not be introduced in taken advantage of the situation by not this country.
Sir, instead of compul- registering the employees , thus the sory arbitration the Government will employees are not contributing towards be doing justice to the workers if it can the Employees Provident Fund.

The introduce protective legislation to the employers in the Penang Port escape workers of this country.
Compulsory arbitration will destroy the existence paying workmen 's compensation and all this state of affairs can only be and the spirit of trade unions in this remedied by a proper National Dock country.

Compulsory arbitration will Labour Board in Penang .

I hope .and drive the workers into frustration I believe the Minister , as he has stated, will act promptly towards this Enche' V. David: Surely, Sir.

Sir, 8 JANUARY 1964 4508 4547 direction.


Mr Chairman, Sir, in this country it is still predominent, especially in the transport industry, to have workers working for 16 to 18 hours.

There are companies which do not introduce 8-hour work, and the workers in that particular industry is unable to orga- nise themselves and as a result the workers are forced to work 16 to 18 hours.

The working conditions are far below the standard enjoyed by workers in other sectors.
It is high time that the Government institute an inquiry into the working conditions and wages in industries where there are long working hours and inhuman working conditions.

As the nation progresses it is only right and fair on the part of the Government to check these unscrupu- lous employers who take advantage of the law which has given them adequate protection.
Mr Chairman, Sir, the Minister in the course of his speech made reference to the social security scheme and the Committee appointed for this purpose, which has already made its report.

Sir, social security is very important especially in a country where you have unemployment: It is important that people can be protected during periods of unemployment, old age and sickness.
This Social Security Committee, if I am correct, has been sitting for quite a long time and has taken a consider- I do not know, even if the report has been made, whether the Government will immediately implement its report to safeguard the workers in this country.

Sir, in this country you do not have a living wage by law; you do not have protection on wages.
So, social security will be a measure which could, at least to a certain degree, pro- vide protection to the workers who are disorganised and who are unable to organise due to the size of their parti- cular industry.

In this respect, Sir, I again appeal to the Minister to move as rapidly as he can to implement the findings of the Committee.

another important factor is about the Employees Provident Fund.
Sir, I understand a well-known establishment in this country has not been contri- buting to the Employees Provident Fund and the Government is not act- ing in accordance with the law to pro- secute this employer, because this employer enjoys a position, and his family is involved in this company.

Mr Chairman, Sir, the Employees Pro- vident Fund is a requirement under the legislation.

It can be anybody the Government should prosecute in any open court if the employer fails to contribute.
I understand the owner of Malayan Times, a leading newspaper in this country, has not been contribu- ting to the Employees Provident Fund.

Action has been taken by the Depart- ment, but the Department has been very reluctant in prosecuting the em- ployer in a court of law.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I call upon the Minister personally to investigate into the matter and, if necessary, to appoint an independent inquiry into the whole system and find out the reasons why this employer was not prosecuted in time for failing to contribute towards the Employees Provident Fund.

Enche' V. Manickavasagam : Sir, this particular subject has already been referred to the court.
I would like to remind this House that the matter is with the court and, as such, it is Mr Chairman : It is sub judice therefore, you are ruled out of order.

Enche' V. David: Thank you very much, Sir.

I am just trying to point out that no Government officer should see that the employer escapes from the law because he is a Minister, or he is related to the Minister.

This would only create malpractice, nepotism and cor- ruption in the Government.
Mr Chairman, Sir, in industrial rela- tions, I am really disappointed that the Government servants have not been offered a fair deal.

Earlier, we under- stood that the Government is appoint- able period in providing its report; and sub judice.

Mr Chairman: I hope you will give ing a Royal Commission to go into the some opportunity to the other Mem- wages and conditions of employment bers to speak.

for the Government servants.


To this 4509 8 JANUARY 1964 4510 date, there appears to be no sign at all for the appointment of this Royal to review this in the light of the present cost of living.

Commission.

Mr Chairman : Order, order.

Under what item you are talking now?

Enche' V. David : Under Industrial Relations, Sir.

Mr Chairman : Industrial Relations is a very wide subject.

If you want to talk on general policy, I must stop you.
We are not concerned with general policy; we are now concerned with the policy of the service for which the money is provided for.

I must warn you that there is a difference between general policy and the policy of the service for which the money is provi- ded for.

You can only appeal or make suggestions.

If you want to start .

.

.

Enche' V. David : Thank you, Sir, I would not be long.
I call upon the Government to state the terms of reference for the Royal Commission and act promptly to satisfy the growing discontentment among the Government servants.

Sir, coming to equal pay, the Government, as I can see, has not adopted a policy of offering equal pay for equal work.

I think this is a matter which concerns the Ministry of Labour, because no person should be paid indifferently for doing equal work.

The question of equal pay has been a long outstanding one.
I know that Members of the Government bench have participated in public rallies supporting this move of equal pay, and I do not know why they do not speak up in this House.

So, I hope that the Government will see that action is taken to provide equal pay for women, as this has already been done in many countries including some Asian coun- tries.
Finally, Sir, even though I disagree completely with the labour policy of the Government, I cannot for a moment say that certain staffs of the Department have not contributed their part they have done very well.

I must congratulate the Commissioner for Industrial Relations, with whom I disagree always, but I cannot say that he has not acted promptly in many cases he has done so.
I disagree completely with the trade union legislation; I disagree with the trade union legislation of 1959; but neverthe- less, I must thank the Registrar of Trade Unions for applying the laws sympathetically, when and where required, even though he has been too harsh at times.

The Department has maintained its status and has acted in a very unbiased manner.
Sir, as I have made earlier reference to the strike in Kelantan by N.E.T.S., I would like to make it known to this House that there has been considerable Police interference, and 60 persons have been charged, and the matter is coming to court.

The Minister being responsible for industrial relations and industries.

I seek his assistance to see that no, interference is made by the Police in an industrial dispute.
Any interference by the Police in an industrial dispute can paint a different picture entirely on the problems of industry and trade dispute.

Therefore, I hope the Minister will take this matter to the National Joint Advisory Board and find an amicable solution to the problem.

Thank you, Sir.
Thank you, Sir.

Tuan Haji Hasan Adli bin Haji Arshad (Kuala Trengganu Utara): Tuan Pengerusi, sukachita-lah saya di- sini menarek perhatian Men.teri yang The Minister, Sir, has made some berkenaan is-itu kapada butiran2 yang reference to shop assistants and various councils reports.

It has been laid down di-chatetkan di-dalam muka surat 350 is-itu kapada masaalah penganggoran that $85.00 can be paid to shop assis- di-dalam negeri mi.

Sa-bagaimana tants-according to the Wages Council.


I would like to remind the House that the shop assistants are not satisfied with the $85.00 stipulated in the report, yang di-ketahui apabila penganggoran itu bertambah2 daripada sa-hari ka- sahari di-dalam sa-sabuah negeri, maka berma`ana-fah kemiskinan dan and the whole matter will have to be kemelaratan itu juga bertambah2 di- reviewed,, and I call upon the Minister dalam negeri itu.
Maka ini-lah sate 4511 8 JANUARY 1964 4512 Kementerian, atau Menteri yang sa- benar2-nya yang mempunyal hubongan yang rapat sa-kali dengan gulongan2 yang terbiar dan menganggor itu.

jaan itu susah hendak di-tubohkan di- kampong2, tetapi sa-kurang2-nya, ba- r. angkali dapat di-jalankan kalau sa-kira-nya pada sa-tahun sa-kali Apabila Kementerian ini tidak radical umpama-nya di-adakan, atau di -hantar di-dalam tindakan-nya, maka penyakit rombongan2 Penolong Pesurohjaya penganggoran itu akan bertambah2.
Ada-lah di-ketahui bahawa pada masa ini pun telah di-tubohkan beberapa Pusat Pendaftaran bagi orange yang suka hendak menchari pekerjaan dan bagi orang22 yang men- ganggor di-dalam negeri mi.
Saya faham bahawa pada tahun 1963 yang lalu beberapa Pusat Pendaftaran bagi orange yang menganggor itu telah bertambah lagi beberapa tempat di- bandar2 di-dalam negeri ini, tetapi nyata-lah, Tuan Pengerusi, bahawa sa- kadarkan perchubaan ikhtiar yang telah di-adakan itu nampak-nya tidak-lah nampak untok menolong benar2 bagi mengatasi masaalah pe- nganggoran yang telah bertambah2 pada masa ini, terutama-nya di-dalam kawasan2 di-luar bandar, atau pun di- kampong2 yang jauh daripada Bandar.
Sa-bagaimana yang di-ketahui ada- lah Pusat Pendaftaran bagi orange yang hendakkan kerja itu di-adakan di-bandar2, Jadi boleh di-katakan tidak ada sama sa-kali di-adakan di- kampong2.

Jadi, sa-bagaimana yang di-ketahui bahawa ada-lah menjadi satu kesulitan bagi pemuda2, atau orange yang tinggal di-kampong2 yang jauh2 itu untok mendaftarkan diri-nya bagi mendapatkan pekerjaan2 yang sesuai bagi-nya manakala dia di- kehendaki datang ka-bandar2 yang saperti itu.
Buroh umpama-nya yang bersangkutan dengan pekerjaan ini di-hantar ka- kampong2 untok mendaftarkan nama2 mereka itu umpama-nya , sama-fah saperti pekerjaan hendak mendaftar- kan kerahan tenaga ra`ayat.

Jadi, sa-tahun sa-kali mereka itu pergi ka-kampongz itu, neschaya dengan ini memudahkan orangz kampong dan orange yang menganggor itu.
Walau bagaimana pun, Tuan Penge- rusi , suka-lah juga saya menarek perhatian Menteri yang bersangkutan ini berkenaan dengan nasib, walau pun saya tahu juga bahawa pemuda2 yang bukan Melayu , orang- yang bukan Melayu ada banyak yang menganggor di-dalam negeri ini, tetapi ada-lah di- ketahui bahawa orangz Melayu, pemuda2 Melayu yang pada masa ini ramai sa-kali telah mendaftarkan nama-nya di-dalam Pusat- Pendaftaran penganggoran itu.
Pernah di-siarkan bahawa pada masa ini pun sudah ada lebeh daripada 70,000 orang pemuda2 Melayu yang telah mendaftarkan nama- nya lebeh daripada dua atau tiga tahun di-dalam Pejabat2 Pendaftaran men- chari kerja itu tidak pula mendapat kerja2 yang di-harapkan .

Saya faham bahawa tidak-lah menjadi kewajipan Kerajaan untok memberi kerja kapada sa-tiap orang yang menganggor.
Tuan Pengerusi, muka surat 359, Pechahan Kepala 11 Bantuan kapada Pertubohan Belia Sukarela, dan Saya pernah mendapat sungutan2 Pechahan Kepala 12 Bantuan kapada bahawa mereka yang tinggal di- Badan dan Persatuan Kebajikan.
Jadi, kampong2, mereka yang menganggor yang saya ingin hendak bertanya di- yang tidak mempunyal pekerjaan di- sini is-lah meminta penjelasan kapada kampong2, atau jauh daripada Bandar itu suka benar hendak mendaftarkan Yang Berhormat Menteri sama ada Pertubohan Belia Sukarela , atau pun dan melaporkan diri-nya kapada Pertubohan Pemuda 2 Islam yang bukan Kementerian yang bersangkutan ini, tetapi mereka kata mereka susah hendak pergi ka-bandar2.
Jadi, satu politik maksud saya di-dalam negeri ini sa-hingga pada masa ini, ada-kah mendapat apa2 bantuan daripada per- chara, saya shorkan di-sini kapada tubohan ini, kalau sa-kira-nya ada, Menteri yang bersangkutan, kalau pun saya suka-lah mendapat tahu nama2 untok mendirikan Pusat2 Pendaftaran pertubohan itu, atau pun , kalau tidak bagi mereka yang menganggor itu ia- ada, kalau sa-kira-nya Menteri yang itu yang tidak ada mempunyal peker- bersangkutan ini tidak keberatan, 4513 8 JANUARY 1964 4514 sukachita-lah saga mendapat tahu bagaimana -kah chara2 -nya bagi per- tubohan2 dan apa-kah sifat dan bentok pertubohan yang boleh mendapatkan bantuan daripada peruntokan itu.
Tuan Pengerusi , muka surat 359, Pechahan Kepala 16 Bantuan kapada Persatuan2 Pengakap dan Pandu Wanita.

Saya sukachita-lah menarek perhatian Menteri yang bersangkutan bahawa memang-fah tuj uan sa-suatu organisasi pengakap yang di-tubohkan, yang tidak bersifat politik dan tidak boleh, atau pun di-dalam sa-suatu hal yang tidak berpolitik .
Jadi, kita telah inemberi satu peruntokan yang banyak kapada Persatuan2 Pengakap dan Pandu Wanita ini, maka Yang Ber- hormat Menteri yang bersangkutan hendak-lah mengawal dengan sa -baik2- nya wang ini supaya di-gunakan wang ini benar2 menurut dasar pengakap, oleh kerana telah ada tanda2 bahawa organisasi pengakap ini telah berjalan, sungutan2 telah timbul di-dalam surat2 khabar bahawa apabila sa-orang Pengakap Agong yang baharu telah di- lantek baharu2 ini, maka telah timbul hat' dan kejadian yang oleh sa-tengah orang di-sifatkan bahawa ini ada satu politik telah bermain di-dalam-nya, kerana hendak erti-nya perbuatan yang melanggar tradisi2 dan kebiasaan2 yang sa-lama ini di-amalkan di-dalam Kementerian mi.
Saya tidak tabu sadikit pun benar- kah tudohan itu, tentu-lah Dewan ini akan mendapat penerangan yang jelas dapat menghalang keraguan2 itu.

Tetapi oleh kerana perkara itu telah bagitu heboh susah pula saya mem- perchayai langsong.

Jadi elok-lah Menteri yang bersangkutan mengawal baik2 supaya jangan-lah ragu2 walau pun bagi kawan-nya sendiri yang menjadi pengakap atau apa2 jawatan yang chuba hendak menyalah gunakan wang tahong ini maka dia hendak-lah bertindak tegas dalam perkara mi.
Dato' Haji Sardan bin Haji Jubir: Untok penjelasan, Tuan Pengerusi.

Saya fikir Pesurohjaya Agong Penga- kap tidak di-bayar gaji.

Jadi berapa- kah gaji atau peruntokan ini tidak ada kena-mengena di-sini.

Mr Chairman : Masaalah itu tidak berbangkit.

Tuan Haji Hassan Adli: Tuan Pengerusi, muka surat 345 berkenaan dengan Menteri Buroh.
Sa-bagaimana biasa kita dengar memang-iah ada menjadi to Juan mana2 Kerajaan demokratik ingin melihat tumboh-nya perkembangan sekerja dan trade union yang sehat bagi menolong kehidupan dan kebaikan nasib kaum pekerja2-nya.

Dan menlang-lah sa-lama ini pun Kementerian ini ada berbuat juga sa- suatu, itu pun tidak ada banyak untok kerja2 di-dalam ladang di-negeri mi.
Memang-lah sejak gerakan sharikat sekerja itu di-majukan dalam negeri ini terutama sa-kali peker j a'- di-ladangz yang besar telah mendapat beberapa perubahan nasib mereka dan Bantuan daripada pehak Kementerian mi.

Chuma satu benda yang saya nampak tidak di-buat langsong oleh Kemen- terian ini dan nampak telah di-abaikan atau di-chuaikan tentang pekerja2 pada ladang'- kechil.

Maksud saya ladangz kechil itu is-lah ladangz tuan punya kebun getah, sawah padi, ladang kelapa dan lain2-nya.
Sedangkan di- seluroh negeri ini ada berpuloh2 ribu pekerja di-l adang2 kechil ini yang tidak pernah di-tolong atau pun di- galakkan mereka dengan gerakan sharikat sekerja mi.
Memang untok menolong mereka itu ada initiative tetapi sa-bagai, satu Kementerian yang mempunyai beberapa banyak pegawai2 yang khusus untok memberi pene- rangan dan memberi latehan kapada pekerja2 untok menyusun dan mem- bentok sharikat sekerja yang baik dan sehat dalam negeri ini, maka saya rasa molek-lah sa-kira-nya pada masa2 hadapan ini Menteri yang bersang- kutan dapat mengarahkan pegawai2- nya yang khusus untok melihat dan menentukan dalam menyusun trade union yang sehat.
mi juga perlu-lah pergi ka-ladangz kechil itu mengumpul- kan kaum sekerja itu dan menasihat- kan mereka dengan chara2 menyusun dan membaiki kehidupan mereka menurut gerakan sharikat sekerja itu.

Dato' Haji Sardan bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Pengerusi, saya tadi tidak sebut- kan berkenaan dengan Kesatuan Pengakap Malaya ini, sa-benar-nya 4515 8 JANUARY 1964 4516 saya di-lantek oleh Duli Yang Maha Mulia Seri Paduka Baginda Yang di- Pertuan Agong sa-bagai Pengakap Agong.
Saya beri pengakuan di-rumah Yang Berhormat ini, sa-bagai Penga- kap Agong Tanah Melayu ini memang saya bekerj a rapat dengan Kementerian Buroh yang telah di-tugaskan oleh Kerajaan bagi memberi bantuan dan membaiki pemuda2 yang masok men- jadi pengakap supaya mem.elihara akhlak dan ta`at setia kapada negara dan mempertahankan negeri ini sa- bagaimana motto-nya "be prepared "slap sedia".

Jadi walau pun banyak juga.


bilangan-nya tetapi tidak kurang 44,000 pengakap seluroh Tanah Melayu ini, yang mana baharu2 ini kami daripada Jawatan-Kuasa Pusat Malaya ini telah pun bersidang dan telah mengambil keputusan untok membesarkan lagi.

Saya harap Yang Berhormat dart Kuala Trengganu Utara akan memberi sa-penoh2 kerja- sama is-itu pemuda2 beliau sendiri masok bersama menyokong.

Soal Jawatan tinggi ini tidak bergaji.


Jadi oleh kerana itu saya minta ma`af, tadi saya bangkitkan apabila di-sebut- kan berkenaan dengan lantekan itu.

Kerana di-dalam Kesatuan Pengakap, semua jawatan2 atau perkhidmatan itu ada-lah sa-chara suka rela dan juga dengan atoran dan peratoran-nya.

Mengikut Perlembagaan Kesatuan Pengakap, tiap2 pegawai termasok juga Pengakap Agong-nya, macham saya ini, di-lantek oleh Duli Yang Maha Mulia Raja2 Melayu dan tauliah- nya chuma 5 tahun sahaja.
saya sa-bagai Pengakap Agong ada di- sebutkan had-nya is-itu dua tahun tauliah-nya.

Apabila sampai dua tahun itu akan di-timbangkan lagi dan akan di-fikirkan kalau ada pegawai2 yang kanan dan berkelayakan dia akan mengambil geleran-nya.

Jadi saya harap tidak-lah terkeliru soal2 yang di-bangkit bagitu dan, bagini kerana itu ada dalam tauliah.

Saya harap, Ahli2 Yang Berhormat akan bersama berkhid- mat dalam Kesatuan Pengakap dan juga kesatuan2 suka rela yang lain.
Jadi saya harap-lah perkara itu tidak mengelirukan dan saya memberi peng- akuan, kami memang berkhidmat kapada negara dan kami akan mem- pertahankan negara bersama2 meme- gang senjata.

AN HONOURABLE MEMBER : (Rises).

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: mi berkenaan dengan transport of workers .. .

Mr Chairman: Kalau Yang Berhor- mat belum habis jangan-lah dudok.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Minta ma`af, saya terlupa (Ketawa).

Sekarang saya ingin berchakap dalam bahasa Inggeris.
Sir, the Honourable Member for Bungsar he is not here just now, but anyway he will hear me has men- tioned that the Government is not doing this and the Government is not doing that.
However, as the Minister of Transport of Malaysia, I would draw his attention to the amendment to section 57 of the Road Traffic Ordi- nance as set out in Clause 6, page 3, of the Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill which says : "Section 57 of the principal Ordinance is hereby amended by inserting immediately after paragraph (1) the following new para- graph `(11) to limit the hours of duty of drivers of goods vehicles and to prescribe the conditions of service of such drivers;'" In fact, Sir, I have been asked to give an assurance to this House that, when this Bill hasp been passed by this House and becomes law, my Ministry will be in consultation with the Ministry of Labour.
Sir, the Honourable Member is back now and I hope he will give his co-operation to the Government instead of asking the Government to give something.

In fact, we have given some- thing, and I hope that when the Honourable Member, as the Secretary- General of the Road Transport Union, is called upon to give his views, before the rules and regulations are framed as to how to implement this law, he will do his best to help his fellow workers in the road transport industry.
It is fortunate that when this Amendment Bill was debated, the Member was not present in this House and, probably, this escaped his mind.

So, I would like to say that the Government is not 4517 8 JANUARY 1964 4518 against the workers, but that it is all guidance officer, because we know that the time with the workers, and to ask _ vocational guidance is a very spe- him to give good suggestions on how cialised subject, and to do it well the we.
can best implement the law of road Labour Officer should not only have transport, Sir.

information as to the jobs that are Enche' V. David: Sir, on a point of information.

I would like to clarify certain points .

.

.

.

.

.

Mr Chairman : Not very long !

Enche' V. David: No, Sir.

While appreciating the move on the part of the Government to introduce appro- priate legislation on lorry drivers, I think the same should be extended to bus drivers and conductors.
There are also large numbers of bus firms includ- ing taxi companies or passenger transports, which are not adhering to eight hours' work and the hours of work there have been abnormal sixteen to eighteen hours.

Therefore, I call upon the Minister that the same legislation be extended to all forms of passenger transport so that the workers in the entire transport industry could enjoy the benefits of the law.
l^Ir Chairman: Ahli2 Yang Berhor- mat saya nampak ramai lagi Ahli2 yang hendak berchakap dan mengam- bil bahagian di-dalam masaalah yang ada di-hadapan kita ini.

Tetapi saya chuma hendak mengingatkan perba- hathan di-atas perkara ini hingga 7.34 sahaja.

Jadi, saya merayu-lah kapada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat yang hendak berchakap, tolong-lah dengan sa- berapa pendek sadikit supaya memberi peluang kapada orange yang lain yang hendak mengambil bahagian pula.
Enche' Liu Yoong Peng (Rawang): Mr Chairman, Sir, first of all, I want to refer to the Labour Offices under the Ministry of Labour.

I understand that there is now a new function which the Labour Office is doing and that is vocational guidance.
On this matter of vocational guidance, I notice that available, but the officer concerned should also have co-ordination with the workers, with the youths, who are going to seek jobs in the future and, especially, he should have close co-ordi- nation with the people in the big factories.

The Assistant Minister of Labour (Enche' V. Manickavasagam): On a point of clarification, under what Head is he speaking, Sir?

Enche' Liu Yoong Peng Under the' Labour Department he should know under what Head it is.
Mr Chairman : In introducing these estimates just now, the Minister of Labour touched on the general policy and basing on that, T ani afraid.

I have got to allow a certain amount of laxity to Members who want to speak.

Most of the subjects touched on by the Minister of Labour today was on general policy.

That is why I am afraid I have got to allow the Honourable Member to speak.

Enche' Liu Yoong Peng : Thank you very much, Mr Chairman.

This is actually part of the work of the Labour Department.
Mr Chairman : It does not matter.

Please proceed.

Enche' Liu Yoong Peng : As I was saying just now, the vocational guidance officer should have close co-ordination, especially, with the big factories and big commercial companies to see that in these big factories and big companies they too have their own vocational guidance personnel so that the "human element" in these factories and companies are satis- factorily taken care of.
The other all that the officer, responsible for matter, which I have also mentioned, vocational guidance in the Labour Office, does is to compile some information regarding the type of work that may be available in Malaya; and is about the youths who are going to seek jobs in the future.
In this con- nection, the work of a vocational guidance officer should be to co-ordi- I think that this aspect of the work, nate with the schools and the other important as it may be, is not all that places where youths are in abundance.

we should expect of a vocational So far as the schools are concerned, 4519 8 JANUARY 1964 4520 I notice that there is almost a complete in Rawang now, there is no Social lack of co-ordination between the Welfare Office in Rawang.
There is, schools and the Labour Department.

of course, a Social Welfare Officer who Youths who are young need a long is responsible for the Rawang area, time to be trained and when they are but this officer has duties also in the trained it is still not sure whether they can get jobs or not.
Therefore, voca- tional guidance to youths should start very early in life and the ability, aptitude and interests of the youths should be understood and guided quite early in life, so that they can be chan- nelled into useful and creative func- tions in later life when, they seek jobs.

I only want to say so much on voca- tional guidance, because I, do not want to touch too much on policy.
The next thing I want to touch on again regarding the work of the Labour Office is that I wish the Minister to instruct his officers to look into the conditions of service of the workers in the Rawang Cement Factory.

I have heard and I have seen that many workers in that factory are suffering from tuberculosis, and therefore there is a grave situation there.

The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Dr Lim Swee Aun): Is the Honourably Member suffering from tuberculosis too?

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Mr Chairman : No, he accidently coughed -I am sure of that (Laughter).

Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: Sir, if I go to that factory too often, I may suffer from tuberculosis (Laughter), but at the moment I am quite all right.

Dr Lim Swee Aun : Is it true that he will not stand for election in that constituency again?

(Laughter).

Mr Chairman : Please proceed.

Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: Yes, Sir, I am proceeding (Laughter).
I hope the Minister would take this matter into serious consideration, i.e., to check up the conditions of service of the workers in the Rawang Cement Factory to find out exactly what are the conditions there, because definitely there are many who are suffering from tuber- culosis.

Ulu Selangor area and, therefore, he is stationed at Kuala Kubu and not at Rawang.
I hope the Minister can post an additional officer making him res- ponsible entirely for the Rawang area and having his office at Rawang and not at Kuala Kubu.

This is my special request in view of the fact that I am the Member for Rawang (Laughter).

The next thing I wish to mention also comes under Social Welfare.
We know that the Social Welfare Depart- ment gives grants from time to time to voluntary welfare organisations and charitable organisations, and in this connection in the past few years a grant has been given to the Tong Shin Chinese Maternity Home at Pudu Road in Kuala Lumpur.

But last year-1963-such a grant, which should amount to something like $300,000, was not given; neither was it given this year.
According to rumours, some say the reason why the grant has not been given is because this maternity home has the word "Chinese" on it.

I sincerely hope that this is not the reason for not giving the grant.

It may be an oversight on the part of the welfare sector, and I hope the Minister will see that this grant is given for 1963 (if it is not too late)---and, of course, for this year, as well as in future years too.
Enche' Ibrahim bin Abdul Rahman: Tuan Pengerusi, sa-lain daripada me- ngalu2kan Perbelanjaan Kementerian ini saya harap Yang Berhormat Men- teri yang berkenaan supaya mengam- bil langkah yang tegas dan lebeh ber- usaha lagi pada masa yang akan datang.
Sebab-nya, Tuan Pengerusi, soal buroh ini ada-lah satu soal yang penting, dan kita dapat banyak ra`ayat dalam negeri ini berpendapat Parti Buroh (Labour Party) ada-lah satu parti yang membela nasib buroh, tempat mengadu hal dan menchari kerj a. Dalam uchapan Ahli Yang Next I want to speak about Social Berhormat dari Bungsar tadi, kita Welfare Offices.

As I have said be- berpendapat Yang Berhormat itu ada- fore, although there is a Labour Office lah sa-orang jagoh dan pembela buroh.
4521 8 JANUARY 1964 4522 Jadi saya tujukan perkara ini kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri yang ber- kenaan supaya menerangkan kapada ra`ayat, is-itu Kementerian Buroh dengan Parti Buroh ada-lah berlainan, kerana kebanyakan mereka anggap apa juga berkenaan dengan perteling- kahan dan pergadohan serta per- hubongan di-antara maj ikan dengan buroh semua tertumpu kapada Parti Buroh.

Di-dalam Dewan ini juga parti Pembangkang menyuarakan dengan lantang sa-olah2 mereka-lah juara dan pembela buroh.
Saya harap Yang Berhormat Menteri mengarahkan Pe- surohjaya Buroh dan Pesurohjaya Perhubongan membuat perhubongan di-antara maj ikan dengan buroh dan berikhtiar mencharikan kerja orange yang menganggor.

Saya dapat tahu pada 4-8-63 me- ngikut statistics job seekers termasok orang yang mendaftarkan nama-nya di-employment exchange is-lah 70,220 orang dan daripada bilangan ini sa- banyak 20,063 orang ada-lah daripada pemuda pemudi yang berumor 21 tahun ka-bawah.
Jadi pegawai2 yang saya sebutkan tadi hendak-lah ber- sunggoh2 menerangkan kapada pe- gawai2 yang bekerja di-employment exchange, menasihatkan pemuda2 itu dan membuat perhubongan dengan majikan kilang perusahaan dan lain2 supaya pemuda2 yang lulus sekolah pada tiap2 tahun itu dapat pekerj aan.
Tuan Pengerusi, kita ta' mahu melihat pegawai2 ini berkeadaan "passive" sahaja dengan menunggu pemuda2 mendaftarkan diri-nya di-employment exchange, tetapi hendak-lah sa-boleh2- nya pegawai2 ini (active) berikhtiar berhubong dengan gudang2 yang besar sama ada berkehendakkan pekerja untok menolong pemuda2 yang men- daftarkan diri itu.

Tuan Pengerusi, berbalek kapada S. 45 Menteri Buroh dan Kebaj ikan Masharakat.
Hari ini kita dapat tahu dalam Trade Union banyak manusia yang tidak bertanggong-jawab telah pun dapat memasoki Trade Union de- ngan chara menyeludup dan menyibar kan di`ayah2 yang tidak baik kapada pekerja2 yang "innocent" dan mem- buat mereka itu sa-bagai perkakas.

Jadi mereka ini-lah yang menyebab- kan mogok, menghasut dan membuat perkara2 yang tidak di-ingini yang akan membangkitkan huru-hara.

mi bukan semua hanya satu dua orang yang menyeludup masok dalam Trade Union.
Saya berharap Yang Berhormat Menteri ini hendak-lah selalu meng- adakan perundingan supaya pegawai2 yang berkenaan itu menyiasat baik2 dalam Trade Union mi.

Enche' Tan Cheng Bee (Bagan): Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to speak under Head S. 48, Social Wel- fare, page 359, Sub-head 23, Main- tenance of Homes and Institutions.
Sir, this House will recall the irreparable damage caused to the Hostel in Waterfall Road, Penang, in 1962 as a result of a landslide which smashed a portion of the Hostel and totally damaged the quarters of the House Master without, fortunately, injuring any of the young occupants of the Hostel.

The House Master and his family were also not injured although the House Master lost every- thing valuable in his house.
Sir, I have been told a year ago that the Minister was looking for a site to rebuild the Hostel, but I regret to state that up to date he has not been successful in his quest for a site in Penang.

Sir, these young offenders or young delinquents are now being housed in a part of the Social Welfare building which is situated in the heart of Penang Town, where there are no open grounds for these young offenders or delinquents to have outdoor activities which is so essential to the wellbeing of such children.
Sir, I have also been told that the present habitat of these young offenders is of a temporary nature, but nearly two years have now elapsed and there is still no sign of a new and permanent building to house them.

I do not know how long yet these children are going to be housed in this temporary remand home.

I would therefore ask the Minister to look into this matter seriously and urgently and to seek the co-operation of the State Government to put up a permanent building without any further delay.
Thank you.

4523 8 JANUARY 1964 4524 Enche' Lim Joo Kong (Alor Star): mat Menteri.

Kematian buroh2 Mr Chairman, Sir, in giving my daripada buroh2 Kerajaan, sa-patut- support to these Estimates, I wish to touch on the subject of Social Welfare, under Head S. 48, on page 357, and to request the Honourable the Minister to give Alor Star a fairer share of the expenditure for this Ministry.
Sir, I say this, because Kedah with a nya ada satu perhubongan yang rapat di-antara Pejabat2 Buroh dengan tiap2 Pejabat2 yang lain.

Apa yang telah terjadi, kalau sa-kira-nya buroh2 itu daripada orange yang bukan daripada pegawai2 Kerajaan di-mestikan mem- beritahu ka-Pejabat Buroh atas ke- population of 700,000 was only given matian buroh-nya, tetapi pada ke- $70,000 a year in 1963, that is only an average of only 10 cents per person per year.

So, how much welfare work could we expect to be done?
No matian Kerajaan buroh2 di-dalam Pejabat2 tidak ada perhubongan, akibat-nya buroh2 yang mati di-dalam Pejabat2 Kerajaan itu, ada satu dua wonder every time when I tried to perkara yang terjadi di-mana compen- obtain relief for some unfortunate sations, atau pun sagu hati yang patut families, I was told that there was lack di-bayar kapada buroh2 yang mati itu of funds, although the Social Welfare Officer of my State is most sympathe- ta' dapat di-kelolakan, oleh sebab Pejabat Buroh ini tidak tahu, dan juga tic and quite willing to help.
In some pejabat2 itu tidak memberitahu dengan cases, milk powder and wheat grains Pejabat Buroh ini, dan bila warith2- contributed by friendly nations were given, but I regret to say that, al- though the donors of such gifts are nya, atau pun anak2 dan janda-nya hendak menuntut kerugian, kerana kematian buroh ini tadi, bila di-tulis very kind indeed, our people prefer kapada Pejabat Buroh, Pejabat Buroh rice and salt fish.
Looking at the Estimates, a sum of $2,038,362 is to be spent on personal emoluments but a sum of $4,464,283 only is to be spent on social welfare services.

Therefore, I consider the sum spent on the social welfare services of our country is hopelessly inadequate, and I strongly recommend that more should be given and allocated to this Ministry.
Another subject that I wish to touch on under Head S. 46 is in respect of the Labour Office in Alor Star, which is still being housed in the Japanese stable where they kept their horses during the war.

Therefore, I feel, Sir, that Alor Star has not been fairly treated in this respect.
I am afraid the Socialist Front might in the coming general elections exploit this issue to hit at the Alliance Government for discrimination against this Govern- ment Department, if the Honourable Minister failed to look into this matter as soon as possible.

Enche' Mohamed Yusof bin Mahmud (Temerloh): Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka hendak berchakap ber- hubong dengan perkara kematian buroh2 ka-pengetahuan Yang Berhor- kata mereka tidak menerima aduan, atau pun kenyataan daripada pejabat2 itu.
Jadi, rasa saya, kalau dapat satu chara di-mestikan tiap2 pejabat itu memberitahu kapada Pejabat2 Buroh atas kematian buroh2-nya supaya dapat di-kelolakan dengan chepat atas segala tuntutan kerugian berkenaan dengan buroh2 mi.

Yang kedua, kematian buroh2 yang bukan daripada pegawai2 Kerajaan, is-itu buroh2 yang di-gaji oleh penggaji.
Di-sini selalu mendapat kelambatan tentang insurance2 untok membayar, yang patut di-bayar sa-bagaimana yang di-janjikan di-dalam policy2 insurance itu tadi, oleh sebab Pejabat Buroh ini tidak ada kuasa terus berunding dengan tiap2 insurance itu.

Apa yang telah terjadi, Pejabat Buroh dia be- runding dengan penggaji dan penggaji berunding pula memin.ta di-bayar daripada insurance-nya itu.
mi akan mengambil masa yang panjang, sebab saya telah dapati dua tiga perkara yang telah terjadi, bila saya menyi- asat, saya dapati kata Pejabat Buroh mereka tidak ada kuasa terus hendak berunding, berutus2 dengan insurance2 penggaji2 itu.

Jadi, rasa saya, kalau di-buat satu chara yang si-penggaji ini apabila mengambil 4525 $ JANUARY 1964 4526 insurance2 untok buroh-nya di-boleh- kan, di-kuasakan Pejabat Buroh terus berunding dengan insurance2 itu.
Jadi, itu datang daripada Kuala Bra, ter- paksa-lah mereka pergi ka-Bentong, pergi baleh dengan memakan belanja dengan chara ini, saya fikir akan dapat dekat $10.

Jadi, dengan, chara pos dan lagi chepat pembayaran2 itu, dan j uga tidak-lah boleh insurance2 ini menchari helah untok hendak melambatkan bayaran2 itu, dan menchari helah pula supaya jangan di-bayar-nya.
Jadi, rasa saya, kalau dapat Pejabat Buroh ini mengadakan satu undang2 yang tegas, Sian dengan chara ini akan dapat menyelesaikan chara2 insurance ini, rasa saya tentu-lah akan dapat lebeh chepat dan kita tidak-lah berasa susah Kati kapada orang yang patut dapat menerima sagu2 hati daripada kematian buroh2 itu.

Yang ketiga, Tuan Pengerusi, ber- kenaan dengan pendaftaran bagi orange yang hendak menchari kerja.
Apa yang telah terjadi sekarang, Pejabat2 Buroh mendaftarkan orange ini, dia chuma di-kehendaki pula, orange yang mendaftar itu membaha- rui pendaftaran-nya pada tiap2 satu bulan.
Jadi, rasa saya, ini masa yang pendek dan ini akan menyusahkan pula orange yang hendak menchari kerja itu datang pula kapada pejabat itu untok membaharul balek pendaf- taran-nya itu, terutama sa-kali di-tem- pat saya, tidak ada tempat pendaf - taran ini, kerana terpaksa-lah mereka itu pergi ka-Bentong dan ini akan mengambil masa yang panjang dan memakan belanja.

Lagi satu perkara, rasa saya, kalau di-panjangkan masa umpama-nya enam bulan nama-nya hidup di-dalam pendaftaran itu.
Jadi, rasa saya ini akan menyenangkan lagi buroh2 yang meminta kerja mi.
Dan lagi oleh sebab di-tempat saya itu tidak ada tempat pendaftaran, dan saya perchaya-lah Kerajaan hendak mengadakan satu Pusat Pendaftaran itu akan mengambil perbelanjaan yang banyak, patut- lah satu chara yang senang pula yang saya fikir is-itu di-bolehkan pen- daftaran2 ini berunding terus dengan surat dan di-hantar borang2 yang chara bersurat ini, rasa saya akan menyenangkan lagi orange yang hendak menchari kerja itu dengan melalui Pusat2 Pendaftaaran mi.
Dan lagi, Tuan Pengerusi, saya nampak sekarang Pejabat2 Kerajaan tidak menggunakan Pusat2 Pendaf ta- ran ini sa-ratus peratus.

Ada masa- nya, ada Pejabat yang dia suka hendak menggunakan, dia gunakan.

Ada sa- paroh-nya dia ketepikan, kerana dia hendak memileh buroh2 yang mereka suka.
Jadi, rasa saya tentu-fah sa- sudah kita ada pusat ini, sudah ada nama2 buroh yang hendak menda.pat- kan kerja itu hendak-lah di-wajibkan bagi tiap2 Pejabat2 Kerajaan itu mesti-+lah mengambil buroh2-nya dari- pada pusat2 itu tadi.
Ini telah terja.di di-tempat saya, Tuan Pengerusi, banyak buroh2- kasar yang mendaftarkan nama di-pusat2 itu tidak dapat masok be- kerja di-dalam Pejabat2 Kerajaan, tetapi saperti Pejabat Kerja Raya sanggop mengambil buroh2 daripada luar daripada tempat saya, umpama- nya dari negeri Perak, dari Pulau Pinang dan sa-bagai-nya terus di- ambil bekerja dengan pejabat2 itu.
Jadi saya fikir kalau kita sudah ada satu pusat di-mestikan ma`ana- nya supaya mereka datang mendaf- tarkan itu lebeh berguna untok menggunakan pusat2 itu.

Jikalau sa- kira-nya ada pejabat2 Kerajaan yang mengenepikan itu, jadi saya rasa tentu-lah perbuatan kita mengadakan pusat ini tidak memberi faedah.
Jadi saya harap kapada Menteri Yang Berhormat supaya mengadakan` tiap2 pejabat gunakan-Iah pusat2 pendaftar burgh ini dan tempat2 buroh2 kechuali yang ada pengalaman yang tidak 'dapat daripada tempat itu saya rasa tidak- lah mereka itu khuatir boleh meng- ambil buroh di-luar daripada tempat 1tu.

Lagi satu, Tuan Pengerusi, saya telah di-ator dan apa kehendak2-nya hendak berchakap berkenaan dengan itu di-isikan oleh peminta2 kerja ini hal Welfare Department.
Ini sate tadi, dan ta' payah-lah lagi yang me- pejabat saya rasa sangat berat tang- reka2 itu terpaksa, umpama-nya di- gong-jawab-nya dan patut-lah pejabat tempat saya, kalau sa-kira-nya buroh2 ini meluaskan lagi perkhidmatan-nya 4527 8 JANUARY 1964 452S ia-itu memberi pertolongan2 kapada orang yang betul2 berkehendakkan per tolongan.

Kita nampak di-negeri kita ini pengemis terlampau banyak.

Patut lah saya rasa dalam Social Welfare ini adakan satu pegawai khas memerhati kan pengemis2 ini.
Di-bandar Kuala Lumpur ini yang saya rasa tentu-lah memalukan Kerajaan kita, kerana banyak pengemis2 itu di-bandar2.

Pada hal kita ada pegawai2 yang boleh menolong mereka dan boleh menem patkan mereka itu.

Yang sudah2 kita rayu sahaja jadi sudah sampai masa nya kita legislationkan atau kita undang2kan boleh mereka2 ini kita di tempatkan di-satu tempat supaya tidak menjadi pengemis2 lagi.

Di-dalam lawatan saya ka-negeri2 yang maju, saya tidak menengok pengemis2 ada berkeliaran di-lorong2 dan sa-bagai nya.
Sebab saya rasa di~sini kita tidak ada satu Undang2 khas yang kita boleh menempatkan mereka;i dan kita jaga dengan elok-nya.

Jadi rasa saya ini lah tiga perkara yang saya pandang penting dapat Menteri Yang Ber hormat ini memikirkan dan menchari jalan apa-kah chara untok menyel~ai­ kan supaya memuaskan hati.

Bagitu juga dalam negeri saya ber ini, kenaan dengan Social Welfare kalau sa-puchok surat itu di-jawab terlampau lambat.
Saya menunjokkan satu kes di-mana Menteri Muda yang telah datang di-tempat saya dan dengan nasehat Menteri Muda itu sa orang telah meminta bantuan daripada Social Welfare ini dan telah meng ambil masa satu tahun 7 bulan.

Bila saya ulangkan surat itu, datang-lah pegawai itu memereksa dengan serta merta-nya kemudian-nya mengatakan, "kamu tidak berhak menerima ban tuan".
Jadi saya rasa, perkara ini tudohan daripada orang mendapat tidak ada ini ramai yang pejabat menjalankan tugas-nya dengan betul dan tidak bertimbang rasa.

Kalau mengambil satu tahun 7 bulan hendak mengatakan orang ini tidak mampu, pada hal orang ini telah di-siasat oleh sa-orang Menteri Muda .Pembangunan Luar Bandar yang datang ka-tempat itu dan di-suroh pula orang itu pergi menemui pegawai daerah di-tempat itu.
Tetapi apabila sa-tahun baharu-lah perkara itu sampai dan saya ulangkan balek sampai-lah pegawai itu dalam tempoh satu minggu sahaja dan dia mengatakan, "oh, orang ini tidak layak menerima bantuan".

Jadi saya sangat susah hati dalam hal pejabat ini, sa kian.

Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr Chair man, Sir, the Honourable Member for Seberang Tengah appears to be very concerned over the association of the word "labour" with the Labour Depart ment.
For his information, I must tell him that the association is more a liability to us than an asset.

Never has the word "labour" been so mis used as to describe this Department as the Labour Department.

As my Honourable friend from Bungsar has pointed out, it will be more appro priate if we call it "the Employers~ Department"; perhaps, in Malay you can call it "Kementerian Majikan".
It will be a more appropriate descrip tion, if we take the activities and the policy of the Ministry into considera tion-its activities during the past ten years since the Alliance came int<> power and the very little the Ministry did for this the working class country.

in find employment The Honourable Minister of Labour pointed out that efforts were being made to train workers for jobs in various fields.
In this respect, Sir, I would like to refer the Minister to a similar school that was started many years ago to train people to become tractor drivers.

Hundreds of people joined this school to be trained as drivers for tractors.

But in the end it was found that the Government could the not students who graduated this particular school.

Later on, the school was disbanded, and hundreds of graduates of this school had to go back to their kampongs without being able to :find jobs.
This, Sir, is an example of the lack of planning on the: part of the Government, because the question of employment is not simply a question of training skilled .people: fo:rr a particular job.

long as the Govetnment pursues a policy of free enterprise~ employment will only be provided in for all from Sir, so , 4529 8 JANUARY 1964 4530 fields where people can make profits.
Employment is not based on the desire of the employers to provide employ· ment benefits but merely on the purpose of making profits for them· selves-if there is any profit in any particular field, there will be employ ment and, if there is no profit, there will be no employment.

So, it is a problem, which I am afraid, even with the enthusiasm and goodwill of the Minister concerned, cannot be solved if the overall policy of the Government is based on private enterprise.
Sir, it is a pity that so enthusiastic a Minister can do very little to help the working class.

In this respect, we must say that a lot of good work done by the Minister is often undone by his Assistant and by the other Members of his Party-it is because there are some contradictions.

The Minister has given an assurance to this House, and publicly too, that he is not going to allow political considerations to come into play as far as his Ministry is concerned.
But if we look at the policy and the performances of his Ministry, we will discover that its every move, every step, is motivated by political considerations and particularly at this juncture when elections are only a few months off.

Many steps taken by the Government under the guise of helping the people are motivated by political considerations.

I refer here, Sir, parti· cularly to the activities of the Depart ment of Social Welfare.

Anybody reading the newspapers.


will discover that if there is a national disaster somewhere, the Social Welfare Depart ment, as a point of policy, will have to use public funds to assist victims of such disaster.

We have no quarrel over that, Sir, but we feel that it is wrong for the Department to allow politicians.

active politicians.

in the various local levels to distribute such money as if they are political funds.

A very glaring example ,41 Penang.


Nobody would have quarrelled with the Department.


or with the Minister, if a ruling was mad~ that it would be proper for the such to distribute Chief Minister money when a national disaster occuITed outside the municipal limits, and that if it occurred within the municipal limits, it would be appro priate-if it is the desire to appoint somebody who is a representative of the people in that particular area-to appoint perhaps the Mayor of the city of George Town to distribute such funds.
But such is not the case, Sir.

In every instance where such national disaster occurs within the city limits.

or outside the city limits, it is always the Chief Minister or somebody who holds an important position in the local level of the Alliance who distri butes such funds, and in every case the impression is created that it is the Alliance Party that is responsible for such a distribution.

This use of public funds for political purpose is, I say..~ Sir, most deplorable.

~ .
~ .

l Secondly, Sir, another instance whichl1" happened recently was the giving of assistance to people who faced un employment iq.

the light of Indonesian confrontati9n.


· It was, I think, during the op~rrlng of this P¥liament that I approached the Minister of Labour in this House itself with regard to what steps he proposed to take in regard to unemployment, as a result of the J'ndonesian confrontation, and his reply to me at that time was that he was at the time working out plans and he would make his plans public in due course.
However, Sir, during the interim period, whether it was due to specific instructions from him or perhaps from his Assistant, political action was taken in George Town to give the impression that the so-called M.C.A.

leaders were taking steps to apply pressure on the Minister to give assistance to these unfortunate people.
This, Sir, is ano ther glaring example and I hope that the Minister will give clarification on this point and tell us categorically that he is not responsible for this most undesirable action on the part of the local leaders of the Alliance and that he will on no account allow his Ministry to be used by politicians for political purposes.

I think that assur ance is needed in this particular House.
However, Sir, apart from the politi cal use of the Department by unscru the pulous politicians, I must the that as Minister here unfortunate people, who are faced with tell far as 45 31 8 JANUARY 1964 4532 unemployment, are concerned, the giv- without any strings attached, and it ing of $15 temporary relief to them is inadequate.

The Minister must realise that this is a very simple matter.

It is must be assistance given objectively to render help to the working class.
I hope the Minister concerned will give not a matter that requires research; this matter his serious consideration.

it is not a matter that should take such a long time to come to some conclusion.

He must realise that in Singapore such workers were promised six months' earnings-one-third of their total earnings and I do not see any reason why the Federation Govern- ment should not do likewise.
After all, these people are not unemployed be- cause of their own choosing; they are unemployed because of the unenlight- ened foreign policy of the Government.

It is the Government's responsibility.

People in this category should not be compared with the unfortunates who are receiving aid from the Social Wel- fare Department.
Assistance from the Social Welfare Department is a matter of right for any unfortunate people in this country, who do not have the opportunity of being able to earn their living, but as far as this category of people are concerned they are able and willing to earn their living.

They actually had jobs before the confronta- tion was started, and I feel that the Government should not merely com- pensate them but should also find alternative employment for them.
They have the right to demand it and I think it is obligatory on the Government to assist them in this manner and not to merely treat them as social welfare cases.
In the field of the trade union move- ment, we have heard the Minister time and again expressing his desire to In conclusion, Sir, I would like to tell the Minister concerned that, as my Honourable friend the Member for Bungsar has stated, his endeavour to assist the working class is appreciated by them, but we would like to see that he pursues his objective with more vigour; and he should not allow any obstacles to come his way, be they the obstacles of a fellow member of his Party, because trade union work and working for the working class is a very unpleasant job, particularly if you have to pursue your work in the company of capitalists.
The conflict of interests is real and if the Minister is going to pursue his efforts honestly and sin- cerely, I feel that he must have the courage and the conviction to remove all obstacles that are in his way.

Enche' Geh Chong Keat (Penang Utara).

Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to speak on Supply Head 48, Social Welfare.
Under this Head, Sir, I would like to compliment the Minister and the Assistant Minister for the interests and progress made under their capable leadership together with the staffs of their Ministry.

Sir, after hearing from the Member for Tanjong, I could not help making some observations on his speech.

As I have said before, what can the Govern- ment side expect from the Members of the Opposition especially the Socialist Front.
From the speech of the Member for Tanjong, he was trying to sow seeds assist, but I would like to refer him to of discord between the Ministers; that one aspect of trade union work in which the Government can render very good assistance , and that is the estab- is always the case with the Socialist Front.

They thrive on sowing seeds of discontentment and dissension in the lishment of a Labour Research Section.

country.
Sir, the Member for Tanjong This particular Section can do work is really a wet blanket, in spite of all pertaining to assisting trade unions in putting up their cases for trade dispute by doing the necessary research and in the field of law , because as the Minister himself is aware many trade unions have inadequate facilities to provide themselves with legal experts and it is in this field that the Government can the good work that the Government and the Ministers and Assistant Minis- ters have done in their respective Departments.
As I have stated in this House before, no matter how well the Government plays its part in dis- charging its responsibility and sacred duty to the public, we can never expect render assistance .

It must be assistance bouquets from the Socialist Front.

4533 8 JANUARY 1964 4534 They from the very beginning have vouched or agreed to disagree with the Government.

Enche' V. David : On a point of order, Standing Order 36 (1).

Does the estimates contain bouquets?

The Member is completely irrelevant, Sir.


The Minister is there to reply at a later stage to any Member who has made any criticisms.

I hope the Member will confine his speech to the subject under discussion.

Mr Chairman: I think he is allowed to answer what has been said by the Honourable Member for Tanjong.

Enche' V. David : I think the Minister is there to reply, Sir.
Enche' Geh Chong Keat : Mr Chair- man, Sir, the Member for Tanjong gave the impression to this House that at the beginning of this Budget debate, he approached the Minister and enquired about what steps the Government is taking to assist the workers in Penang, who are affected by this confrontation.

Sir, as I have said, they have always tried to mislead and they have never done anything concrete.
For the infor- mation of this House, Sir, I would like to say that as soon as confrontation sets in, and the problems and the sufferings of the workers came to the notice of the Government and members of the Alliance, the M.C.A.

of Penang took up the matter.

Senator Cheah Seng Khim of the Upper House, wrote to the Minister informing him of the plight of the workers that was many days ahead of Parliament session.
Sir, we are very grateful to the Government and the Ministers for the best and efficient service that the staff have at- tended to the cases.

Besides the Govern- ment, members of the Acheh Traders Association through their President, Mr Chan Hoe Chooi, rendered very valuable assistance to sort out the cases of workers affected by this conf ronta- tion.

Sir, what can we expect from Members from the Socialist Front.
We also know that the first instalment was paid out at $15 and we have also made an appeal to the Minister to find ways and means to increase this financial aid or temporary relief to help the workers and their families to pull through this period of confrontation.

We hope this relief is not only for three months but the Minister will extend it as long as there is confrontation and as long as the workers and their families are affected.
We have also made appeals to the Ministers and the Penang Chief Minister has also found ways and means to obtain employment for them, and also try to channel through the Federal Department assistance of find- ing land for them to work on.

Sir, we are carrying on our best to help these workers who are affected and their families and it should not be implied, as the Socialist Front Member for Tanjong has implied, that it was he who has brought it to the notice of this House.
Incidentally, Sir, this area where this thing is happening is in his own constituency, i.e., Tanjong, and I feel that he is trying to mislead, be- cause he has not done much for his constituents and he is trying to switch round by saying something in this House.

Sir, there is one comment from the Member for Tanjong which I must not miss.

He mentioned about the handing out of aids through the Chief Minister, Penang, instead of the Mayor, because in the City Limits it should be through the Mayor.
Sir, the Chief Minister is the Head of a State, of the State of Penang.

Isn't he the proper person to represent the Government?

Sir, there are many things which the City Council through its Mayor, the previous Mayor, had done which -I am sure the Press will bear with me are more political than his civic-conscious duty to his City dwellers.

Sir, I would like to switch on to another subject, that is Homes for the aged.
Sir, in Penang it has always been a song sung (by the Mayor) that Penang is a clean city, it is a very prosperous city, and the City Mayor will discharge his duties in looking after the citizens under his care, but yet we find a lot of beggars.

Sir, I appeal to the Minister, if the Mayor cannot discharge his duties, to give him assistance.

Sir, we have a few Homes, Sir, Old and Aged in Penang.
Some are sup- ported by missionaries, and we have 4535 8 JANUARY 1964 4536 one that is being supported by the State Department the Jubilee Home.
I would like to appeal to the Minister to make provision to accommodate more of these aged people and to Mr Chairman : Ahli2 Yang Ber- hormat, mengikut masa yang di- untokkan bagi Kementerian ini hingga sampai pukul 7.30 minit sahaja, dan saya terpaksa-lah juga akan memberi increase the allowance or financial peluang kapada Menteri ini sa-kurang2- assistance to the Jubilee Home and other Homes for the old and aged.
Sir, in regard to social welfare, Penang is lucky to have public spirited men and women, who come out to work on a voluntary service basis.

Many of them, have discharged their voluntary service well and very creditably and some have received Government and public recognition.

Here, I wish to maintain one in parti- cular and he is the Secretary, Enche' Lim Chong Hai, who as Secretary of the State Welfare Committee has dis- charged his duties very well.
But, un- fortunately, his work and the work of the Committee has been hampered by lack of funds.

I would, under this allocation of funds, appeal to the Minister not to forget Penang.

It is very densely populated, and in a place, where the population is very dense you have a lot of social welfare cases to attend to, including aid required by the aged people.

Before I sit down, Sir, I would like to reply to a little portion of what the Member for Tanjong had said.
Sir, he had not paid the Government any compliment, but I am not sure that, if given the chance, that the Opposition or the Socialist Front should succeed to be the Government, they could discharge their duties just as well as the Alliance Government which has carried on for so many years.

I would like to give one example.

During the Eastern Smelting strike, members of the Socialist Front were very active.

They led the strikers and they misled the workers to strike.
What happened during the strike-- what was the outcome?

Had they done anything to help them?

The sufferings of these workers and clerks have yet to be told.

Therefore, I say that given the opportunity to do their duty for those who have faith in them, they have failed them very, very miserably.

Enche' V. David : (Rises).

nya 20 minit untok menjawab sega.la hujah2, atau menjawab soal2an yang di-datangkan oleh pehak2 yang ber- kenaan.
Jadi, saya juga merayu ka- pada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat minta-lah berchakap sa-berapa pendek supaya dapat di-habiskan perkara ini sa- belum pukul 7.30.

Che' Khadijah binti Mohd.

Sidek (Dungun): Tuan Pengerusi, di-dalam soal ini, saya akan mengambil baha- gi an pada muka 359 is-itu tentang hal Penyenggaraan Kanak2 yang tinggal di-luar a.tau di-Rumah Ke- luarga Angkat.
Di-sini, saya lihat anggaran pada tahun 1963 ada di- adakan peruntokan sa-banyak $45,000 tetapi peruntokan untok tahun 1964 hanya di-adakan sa-banyak $40,000 jadi lebeh kurang daripada tahun 1963.
Saya berasa, di-sini soya meminta supaya peruntokan ini harus di-tambah lebeh banyak, kerana mungkin, barang- kali Penyenggaraan Kanak2 yang tinggal di-luar di-maksudkan bagi anak2 yang ada di-dalam rumah ke- bajikan itu dan ada orange dari luar yang mahu mengambil anak2 itu, dan bila anak2 itu di-bawa ka-luar, maka di-beri perbelanjaan kapada orang yang menjaga anak2 yang di- ambil dari rumah kebajikan itu, tetapi Saya meminta di-sini, mungkin juga ada bantuan2 yang di-berikan kapada anak2 yang tinggal di-luar erti-nya anak2 orange yang miskin yang ibu bapa-nya tidak ada ber- kemampuan, mithal-nya pertolongan daripada kebajikan masharakat untok pembelian buku2 bagi anak2 yang hendak belajar, tetapi tidak mampu ibu bapa-nya membelikan-nya.
Jum- lah murid2, atau anak2 lebeh dari kalangan bumi putera sa-jati anak2 Melayu dari negeri ini, saya merasa sangat banyak jumalah-nya dan hares lebeh banyak lagi bantuan yang hendak di-berikan kapada anak2 yang sa- demikian rupa.
Jadi, untok memberi bantuan, atau Penyenggaraan bagi kanak2 yang tinggal di-luar itu, saya 4537 8 JANUARY 1964 45 3 8 berharap kapada Kementerian yang berkenaan supaya lebeh lagi akan memberi bantuan-nya kapada anak2 Melayu yang ibu bapa-nya yang miskin, kadang2 bapa-nya sudah meninggal, tinggal-lah si-ibu dengan tuj oh, Japan atau sembilan orang anak-nya yang harus di-kendalikan oleh si-ibu itu sendiri untok pakaian dan makanan-nya, serta buku2 kalau anak2 itu belajar di-bangku sekolah.
.Jumlah ini, Tuan Pengerusi, di-seluroh Persekutuan Tanah Melayu, saya rasa puloh ribu anak'- yang mengharapkan bantuan daripada kebajikan masha- rakat dan lagi di-dalam ranchangan2 luar bandar juga orange yang meng- ambil bahagian di-dalam ranchangan2 luar bandar itu terhad, hanya di-beri sa-bagai Wang pinjaman daripada Kerajaan satu hari untok satu orang bapa is-itu sa-banyak $2.94 sen, :sedangkan mereka itu ada mempunyai anak2 yang ramai di-bangku sekolah, lah di-ambil daripada anak jati, atau orange Melayu dalam negeri ini, tetapi kalau di-pereksa terhadap kilang2, atau perusahaan2 perintis yang ada ini, Tuan Pengerusi, saya rasa tidak ada sepuloh persen kaum buroh, atau pekerja2-nya yang terdiri daripada anak2 Melayu.
Ada perusahaan2 itu pada mula-nya menerima beberapa puloh orang mithal-nya pemuda2 Melayu, tetapi di-dalam satu dua bulan dengan bermacham2 jalan, satu demi satu di-berhentikan pemuda2 kita daripada perkerjaan-nya dan di- gantikan dengan orange asing, Tuan Pengerusi, atau orang yang sa-kaum dengan mereka2 yang menjadi majikan di-tempat2 itu.

mi sangat-lah me- nyedehkan terhadap pemuda2, atau pemudi2 Melayu yang bekerja di- kilang2, atau di-perusahaan2 itu.
Ada yang mengatakan sa-hingga ga ji mereka itu kalau sa-kira-nya dan ini j uga di-harap bagi pehak dari pehak pemuda asing mendapat Kementerian Kebajikan Masharakat $4.50 satu hari tetapi pemuda atau ini supaya d apat mengadakan penyia- pemudi2 kita hanya di-berikan gaji satan bagi orange yang mengambil $2.50 atau $3.00 lain buku-nya untok bahagian di-dalam ranchangan2 luar ga ji bagi mereka itu.
Ini' rungutan dari Bandar ini supaya anak2 mereka yang pemuda pemudi anak Melayu dan bersekolah itu jangan terlantar pela- sangat-Iah menyedehkan, Tuan Pe- j aran mereka itu, dan dapat-Iah hendak- ngerusi.

Mereka ini tidak ka-mana nya dari pehak Kementerian ini hendak mengadu kalau mengadu pun memberikan bantuan untok membeli mengadu-lah kapada Wakil2 Ra`ayat buku2 bagi anak2 mereka itu untok yang dapat menyuarakan di-tempat meneruskan pelajaran-nya di-dalam yang bertuah ini dan saya minta-lah sekolah2.
Di-dalam muka 350 is-itu.

Pesuroh- jaya Buroh yang ada perhubongan dengan perusahaan is-itu bahagian Buroh.

Di-sini juga saya merayu ka- pada pehak Kementerian Buroh supaya mengadakan penyiasatan2 di-dalam kilang2 perusahaan taraf perintis yang ada di-dalam negeri kita mi.
Berapa banyak buroh2 yang di-ambil daripada pemuda2 Melayu, sebab kebanyakan-nya majikan2 daripada perusahaan2 taraf perintis itu hanya mengambil sharat2, atau melakukan sharat2 yang di-berikan oleh Kerajaan kapada mereka itu, sa-olah2 melepas- kan batok di-tangga sahaja.
Kalau kapada pehak Kementerian demi kepentingan untok mengurangkan penganggoran2 dari anak bangsa Melayu dan demi untok melateh anak2 kita supaya dapat taraf pereko^nomian atau bekerj a dengan orange asing dalam negeri kita ini, saya minta-lah kapada pehak Kementerian ini supaya pehak Kementerian mengambil penyia- satan dan menuntut kapada majikan dalam tar.
of perintis itu supaya sunggoh2 mereka melihatkan is-itu kesuchian hati atau yang mengatakan ta`at setia kapada negeri kita Malaysia ini yang mereka i_tu mahu bahu membahu dengan anak jati negeri ini, bagi orang kita Melayu dan hendak-Iah mereka itu membuktikan sa-kira-nya kita menghendaki sa- dengan kerja2 yang di-berikan kapada kurang2-nya 51 orang dari tiap2 100 prang buroh yang bekerja di-dalam pemuda dan pemudi anak Melayu dalam tanah ayer-nya, sa-kian, Tuan kilang2, atau perusahaan itu hendak- Pengerusi.
4539 8 JANUARY 1964 4540~ Enche' Abdul Ghani bin Ishak (Melaka Utara ): Saya akan mengambil dua tiga minit berchakap di-dalam Ke- menterian Buroh dan Kebajikan Masha- rakat mi.

Sa-belum saya berchakap saya menguchapkan tahniah kerana kerja yang telah di-jalankan oleh Kementerian ini chukup baik.
Saya berchakap ini kerana saya, mendengar wakil^ dari Tanjong dan wakil sa-belah Socialist Front yang kebanyakan-nya ada menyindir bahawa Kementerian ini nampak-nya patut di-ubah nama-nya kapada Kementerian Majikan kerana tidak menjalankan tugas-nya yang sa-benar.

Tetapi apa yang saya tahu, Tuan Pengerusi, segala kerja2 yang telah di-buat berhubong dengan ke- ba jikan buroh daripada apa.

benda pun saya rasa Kementerian ini telah pun menjalankan tugas-nya dengan baik.
Tetapi dukachita sadikit hal yang hendak di-nafikan oleh party Socialist Front atau pun party Buroh itu, apa yang telah di-gunakan sa-lama ini memang boleh jadi kebamaran.

Saya telah berchakap dua tahun, hendak- lah kita pangsa2kan Union Labour Party dengan Labour Union.

Sebab saya sendiri telah di-katakan; di-tempat saya ada orang tidak faham ber- kenaan dengan party ini dia pakai badge, kemudian saya kata, "ini apa?"

Dia kata, "ini Labour Union", pada hal tandok lembu.
Jadi nyata dengan terang2 perkara ini terjadi dalam party mi.

Sa-lain daripada itu baharu2 ini di- dalam pilehan raya mithal-nya memang dia mengat.akan ini-lah dia party Buroh orange makan gaji ini- lah dia party-nya.

Yang sa-benar-nya, Tuan Pengerusi, dia tidak pernah cherita polisi party-nya.

Jadi; saya ada- lah tidak bersetuju dengan apa yang di-nafikan oleh wakil dari Tanjong tadi.
Kemudian dalam pada itu wakil Tanjong ini mengatakan bahawa Kementerian ini tidak berguna dan sekarang pula dia merayu kapada Kementerian kalau ada bantuan ka- Pulau Pinang, tolong-lah beri kapada Data' Bandar menyampaikan-nya.

Jadi IIli ganjil benda yang di-katakan tidak berguna itu tetapi dia hendak benda itu di-sambut dan di-jadikan modal party-nya hendak mengambil; nama.

Saya rasa tentu-lah bagi pehak kita tidak terpengaroh atas.

rungutan2 daripada pehak party2 Buroh ata.u dari Socialist Front mi.
Bagi pehak saya di-Melaka nampak nya hal huroh ini telah di-jalankan dengan sempurna kerana banyak penganggor2 yang di-beri bantuan ber- ker ja sama ada daripada majikan atau di-tempat Tentera yang ada di Melaka banyak-lah bantuan di-dapati daripada Kementerian mi.

Satu perkara yang saya hendak sebutkan di-sini, sa-belum saya dudok kerana saya katakan tadi tidak hendak berchakap banyak, is-itu berkenaan dengan bantuan kechemasan daripada Kebajikan Masharakat.
Di-luar bandar dengan di-dalam bandar ini ada lain sadikit, is-itu tentang kebakaran.

Jadi kami di-Melaka oleh sebab kemarau terlampau panjang pada tahun yang lalu jadi kebakaran banyak terjadi.

Jadi rumah2 yang terbakar itu kalau di-dalam bandar saya dapat tahu boleh-lah di-tempatkan kapada satu tempat kemudian di-beri keutamaan kapada rumah2 baharu yang hendak di-pindahkan mangsa2 kebakaran mi.
Tetapi di-luar bandar saya dukachita sadikit nampak-nya sa-takat ini bantuan tidak ada kapada orange yang Inenjadi mangsa ini.

Mithal-nya sa- buah rumah di-fikirkan dalam luar bandar yang hanya kita di-beri oleh pehak Jabatan Kebajikan Masharakat chuma memberi sa-takat $50, $60.

Jadi saya rasa tentu-lah susah kalau hendak beli atap buat sementara mithal-nya hendak mendirikan rumah tempat bertedoh dalam satu dua bulan itu tentu-lah tidak dapat.
Dan duka- chita-nya pula di-luar bandar ini me- mang tidak kita boleh masokkan insuran api.

Rumah2 walau macham mana besar di-dirikan $5, $6 dan $10,000, rumah di-luar bandar tidak ada chan hendak masokkan insuran api.

Jadi bila api ini, datang sudah tentu-lah ranap semua-nya dengan tidak ada chagaran untok menolong kesengsaraan orange ini.
Jadi saya pun tidak-lah menchadangkan berapa patut di-beri tetapi patut-lah Kemen- terian, ini menimbangkan agak2 boleh orang ini membeli 4 batang tiang-kah 34541 8 JANUARY 1964 4542 atau sa-takat yang mana untok mem- ber pertolongan kapada orange yang malang kebakaran itu.
Saperti saya katakan tadi nampak- nya K ementerian ini Wien jalankan :kerja-nya dengan chara yang baik dan saya mengalu2kan atas perchubaan Menteri Buroh yang telah membuat pusat2 latehan bekerja dan saya harap bukan sa-takat di-Seremban atau sa- takat yang sudah ada ini tetapi patut juga di-kembangkan dan kita harap- Iah majikan2 atau tempat2 yang mahu bekerjasama dengan Kementerian ini boleh memberi peluang yang lebeh luas lagi.
Kapada yang telah memberi peluang ini kita uchapkan tahniah atas kerjasama-nya mengurangkan pe- nganggoran negara kita pada masa akan datang, terima kaseh.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Mr Chairman, Sir, I am surprised to see that so many members have made speeches regarding my Ministry.

The Honourable Member for Bungsar has, I think, made the longest speech, and I thank him very much for giving me praise for my services and the services of my colleague the Assistant Minister and officers of my Ministry.
But all this praise has lost its sweetness when he disagreed with so many of the policies of my Ministry (Laughter).

He mentioned that we are 20 years behind Singapore in labour matters.

Well, Sir, it is a matter of opinion and he is entitled to his opinion.

But it would surprise my Honourable friend to know that the Singapore trade union leaders have a very high regard for our system here and they would like to adopt our system in Malaya instead of having their own system (Applause).
The Honourable Member later in his speech said that compulsory arbitra- tion is bad and that it takes away the right of the workers.

I am sure that he knows that compulsory arbitration is a feature in Singapore.

How does he reconcile this?

Enche' V. David : Singapore has an Industrial Arbitration Court with a Chairman who assumes the role of a Judge and the man who is sitting there as Judge is an economist, Dr Charles union matters .
People of that category would be really doing a service, but people from the Judicial Service appointed to such Courts cannot contribute anything at all to the industry as well as to the workers.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Again, Sir, it is a matter of opinion.

He referred also to the Trade Union Ordinance and he said it was worse than the Trade Union Ordinance of colonial days and that it contravened I.L.U.

Convention No.

87 and that trade unions have made no progress.


Sir, the principle behind the Trade Union Ordinance is that trade unions must be formed by and must function for the benefit of the workers who have an identity of interests, and not to be a tool for opportunists who have no knowledge or experience of the trade in which the trade union func- tions.

If that is not a progressive idea, I do not know what is.

Statistics also show that trade unions have in fact made much progress.
There are today 284 unions with a membership of nearly 275,000 as compared with 250 trade unions with 175,000 member- ship in 1959 when the Ordinance was introduced.

He also mentions about the Employment Ordinance which guaran- tees, he says, protection only to the employers, and that the employers retain the right of hire and fire.

Sir, the Employment Ordinance is based on many important principles adopted by the International Labour Organisa- tion.
It lays down the respective rights of both workers and employers, and not of the employers alone.

Just as much as an employer can dismiss a worker with a month's notice, so also a worker can leave his job with a month's notice.

To say that the Ordi- nance is weighted against the workers is unfair.

However, I am aware that some allegations of unfair dismissals arise now and then.

They are being dealt with by the trade unions with the unfailing assistance of my Minis- try.
The National Joint Labour Advi- sory Council is also now considering an I.L.O.

Convention to regulate the right of the employer to hire and fire.

hope that will satisfy my Honourable Gamba, who is well versed in trade friend because he was with me in 4543 8 JANUARY 1964 4544 Geneva last year.

He also alleged that the employers lock out workers and that the Government does nothing to stop them.
Well, Sir, first of all, I must say that I do not support hasty industrial action either by employers or workers.

Both sides must make a genuine attempt to settle differences by the democratic process of joint discus- sion and agreement.

However, I must point out that employers have as much right to lock out their workers as workers have the right--which is far more often used--to go on strike.

He also referred to the problem of unemployment and said that the Go- vernment is doing nothing about it.
He also alleged that we do not have the figures of unemployment.

Sir, I think I have covered this point adequately in my remarks earlier in my speech and if the Honourable Member had listened with care he would have heard that data for employment, unemploy- ment and under-employment are now at hand and will be released to the public in due course.

He would also have heard that the Government has already established a manpower plan- ning section to effectively plan employment policies.
He also alleged that there are long delays in workmen's compensation cases.

Sir, cases of workmen's compensation are dealt with as expeditiously as possible.

The Department of Labour deals with an average of 1,700 cases of this nature per year.

Delays naturally occur in some cases because of the need for proper medical reports as to the extent of the injuries and full enquiry as to the nature and circumstances of the accidents.

If just decisions are to be made it will sometimes take time.
Nevertheless, the National Joint Labour Advisory Council is con- sidering amendments to the Ordinance and the regulations to make the administration and enforcement smoo- ther.

Allegations made by my Honourable friend that officers intentionally delay matters must be refuted by me.

If he had any specific case, he could very well write to me or see me personally about it.
He also called for an enquiry into the transport is the General Secretary of the Transport Workers Union and I am sure he would agree that if this Union.

had a wider membership, conditions of work in the industry would improve.

To call for an enquiry is to admit his own failure.

Sir, I think I have answered most of the points raised by the Honourable Member and I wish now to go on to the other members.
The Honourable Member for Rawang alleged that there is no co-ordination in the vocational guid- ance activities of the Department of Labour.

I should point out that this is not correct.

Co-ordinating committees between my Ministry, the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Commerce and Industry and employers and workers already exist.

I should stress, Sir, that the vocational training project is still in its pilot stage.

He also alleged that there is excessive dust in the Rawang Cement Factory.
Sir, this is not entirely correct, as I am, told that the dust suppression equipment in the factory is^ highly efficient.

The little dust that escapes is only an irritation and not a danger to health.

The dust which used to cover the area actually came from the quarries in Batu Caves.

This too has been looked into and the dust suppression equipment and other measures have been introduced and I understand that the position is much better now.
However, the dust situation in Rawang area is kept under close watch.

His request for a welfare officer in Rawang will be borne in mind and it might be possible to post an officer there in the near future.

In reply to the remarks of the Honourable Member for Seberang Tengah, I would say that the officers of the employment exchanges and the local advisory committees are doing their best to assist job seekers.
They visit employers and places of employ- ment td get them to use the exchanges and the result on the whole has been quite good.

However, it must be borne in mind that employment exchanges do not create jobs but merely place job seekers in the employment oppor- tunities that are available.

I now refer to the Honourable industry.

Sir, the Honourable Member Member for Alor Star.

He referred to 4545 8 JANUARY 1964 4546 the $70,000 for public assistance in Kedah.
In Kedah it is provided in the `State Estimates and not in the Federal Estimates; as public assistance in a State is a State subject, it is outside the jurisdiction of my Ministry.

I am also happy to announce that the Alor ;Star Labour Office will not have to be in the present accommodation for much longer---as he says.

I was in Alor Star just recently and I found that the Federal building is going up and that the ground floor of the building is being allotted to the Labour 'Office.
As regards the remarks of the Honourable Member from Bagan, a site for the Remand Home has already been found and the new Home will be built as soon as the funds are made available.

Now I turn to the Honourable Member for Temerloh.

The Govern- ment has already taken action to promulgate legislation for the control -and rehabilitation of beggars.

The draft legislation is now being studied by State Governments.

Rehabilitation centres are being planned; in fact, one centre has already started in Malacca.
His remarks regarding delays in public assistance are beyond my jurisdiction, being a State matter.

However, I will see what can be done about it.

Regard- ing his remarks on employment exchanges, I would point out that a Service Circular already exists where- by Government Departments are required to take their labour require- ments through employment exchanges.
In regard to the remarks of the Honourable Member for Tanjong, I would just like to assure him that the whole Government is behind me in my efforts to improve the welfare of the workers well, the Honourable Mem- ber is not here, Sir.

I must say that his attempts to infer otherwise is very poor taste and totally unfounded.

As regards his remarks concerning the training of workers, I can assure him that the training projects have been undertaken only after careful study of the employment situation.
The Committee in charge of these schemes has employers' representatives on it who will ensure that the training given will meet the requirements of industry.

I now refer, Sir, to his suggestion that a Labour Research section should be formed in my Ministry to assist workers.

I am already considering the establishment of such a unit and the necessary action is being taken.
With regard to the remarks made by the Honourable Member for Kuala Trengganu that there are no Employ- ment Exchanges in rural areas, that rural youths experienced difficulties in registration for employment, I would like to say, Sir, that Employment Exchanges are situated near major centres of employment and plans exist for a wider network of Employment Exchanges.
However, Sir, the system of registration has now been changed to enable persons to renew their regis- tration every three months and this, too, can be done by post free of charge.

Sending of mobile units on rare occa- sions I do not think is going to help much.

If youths in rural areas find it difficult to obtain employment it is because of three reasons : (1) They do not have much expe- rience or training or educational qualifications.
(2) They are unwilling to move out of their kampongs to places which might be far away to work.

(3) They are choosy in the type of jobs they want.

He also asked for a procedure for voluntary organisations obtaining grants from the Government.
A new programme of grant-in-aid has been Referring to his distorted remarks drawn up and if thu Honourable Mem- regarding politics in welfare work, I will only say this : the distribution of assistance by the Chief Minister of Penang is quite in order as he is the ber wishes, I can let him have a copy.

He also asked that assistance must be given to workers in small places of employment to form trade unions.
I Chairman of the State Committee set will give this matter consideration, but up to assist workers affected by con- I would stress, Sir, that trade unions frontation.

are voluntary bodies.

Whether unions 4547 8 JANUARY 1964 4548 can be formed by these workers will depend entirely on their own willing- ness and keenness.
With regard to the statement by the Honourable Member for Pulau Pinang Utara, I will repeat what I have said earlier : the Government will be intro- ducing legislation for the control of beggars and vagrants together with centres for their rehabilitation.

This would reduce considerably the problem to society .

As regards the Jubilee Home, the Government is already pro- viding $45 ,000 per year .

In addition, the Home gets about $45,000 from its own investment.
The income should be adequate for the Home at this stage.

In conclusion , Sir, I wish to say that the Government is fully aware of the problems facing the workers.

Much has been done by my Government to overcome the problems and much more will be done this year .

It is totally false to believe that only a party which has the word " Socialist" in front of its name can cater for the welfare of the workers .

The.
The.

Alliance Government in its labour policy has been as socialistic as any socialistic government can be, and the workers of Malaya know this.

Thank you.

(Applause).

Question put, and agreed to.

The sums of : $863,085 for Head S. 45, $3,039 ,675 for Head S. 46, $458,542 for Head S. 47, $4,596,836 for Head S. 48, $170,508 for Head S. 65E, $256,981 for Head S. 66L, $126,679 for Head S .

67C, and $77,517 for Head S. 67D, Ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
(Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) Heads S. 49-S. 53, Heads S. 65Q, S. 67H and S. 67P The Minister of Rural Development (Tun Haji Abdul Razak bin Dato' Hussain ): Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permission, Sir, I wish to explain Heads S. 49 to S. 53 and Heads S. 65Q, S. 67H and S. 67P together.

Sir, Honourable Members will observe that the 1964 expenditure under this Ministry of Rural Develop- ment proper shows a reduction of $877,061 as compared to the 1963 expenditure.
The decrease is due partly to the transfer of Games Department.

from my Ministry to the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives and also partly to a big reduction of Special Expenditure under Adult Education.

Now, Sir, under the Adult Educa^• tion Division a sum of $9,020,350 is required to meet expenses for 1964.

In the last two years , this Division has played an extremely important role in Rural Development.
The ultimate object of these Adult Education Classes is to produce what we call , functional literates .

It is the intention of this Division to make the rural people know their rights and their responsibi- lities as useful citizens of this country,.

and to make them self-reliant , as well as to instil in them a sense of national unity and patriotism.

Under Personal Emoluments, there is a decrease of $35 ,470.

This is because of the reduction in three posts which are no longer required.
The post of Training Officer for Religious Instruc- tion is intended for liaison work.

between this Ministry and the State Governments .

This officer will also advise on appropriate methods of instruction to .be given in the Adult Education Classes.

The two other posts are : one Field Officer and one Cine Operator / Driver.

These posts are meant for the additional mobile unit in 1964.

The three mobile units now in operation ` are found to be inadequate to cope with the required volume of work.
Briefly , the duties of the Informa- tion Units are to encourage the rural people , especially the rural illiterates, to join the Adult Education Classes and to mobilise the spirit and energy of the rural people , so that they could better their own living, know their responsi bility towards their country , and stand on their own feet as self-reliant citizens..

Under Other Charges Annually Recurrent , it will be found that there is a decrease in the Estimates for 1964 by $97,796.
This is due to the reduc- tion in the number of classes in 1963 4549 8 JANUARY 1964 4550 which in turn is due to the fact that at present continuing its long term and a number of classes have been com- systematic basic mapping programme bined together as one class in order on the geology and mineral resources to achieve economy.

of our country.

The Other Charges Special Expendi- It is the duty of this Department to ture also shows a decrease of $722,209.
carry out mineral clearance surveys This is due to reduction in the purchase before any large land schemes are of text-books and follow-up materials.

started, so as to ensure that mineral From the above figures, it will be noticed that there is an overall reduc- tion of $857,475 in the estimate for 1964 under this Division.
As regards Head S. 50 Pesurohjaya Tanah I wish to explain to the House that the 1964 Estimates of this Depart- ment provide for an expenditure of $601,728, as against a provision of $605,987 in 1963.

This represents a decrease of about $4,259 which is due to adjustment of the salaries of the officers working in this Department.

About 70.3 per cent of the total amount is to meet expenditure on the Kelan- tan and Perlis Land Settlement work.
The Federal Government has agreed earlier to assist the Kelantan Govern- ment in carrying out the work of surveying all the lands in Kelantan and issuing fresh Document of Titles -after settling and determining the claims of the owners.

Similarly, in Perlis the work of replacing old titles with new ones is also being carried out by the Federal Government.
The Land Settlement work in Kelan- tan and Perlis is expected to continue for a number of years and the cost of completing this work will have to be provided for by the Federal Govern- ment annually.

I now refer to Head S. 51-Geolo- gical Survey.

The overall total expendi- ture for this Department shows an increase of 3.6 per cent.
The figure does not fully reflect the large range of responsibilities now borne by the Department of Geological Survey whose activities are all important in relation to development planning involving land use and utilisation of mineral resources.

I would like to inform the House that the Department has completed a reconnaissance survey of the whole country, the Malay Peninsula, and is resources are not blanketed by agri- cultural and other developments.
During the first three-quarters of the year mineral clearance certificates have been issued jointly by the Geological Survey and the Department of Mines over 25 areas aggregating 96,737 acres.

In this connection, Sir, I also wish to invite Honourable Members' atten- tion to the work of the Mineral Investi- gation Drilling Unit, operated jointly by the Geological Survey and the Department of Mines.
This is currently working, to evaluate bye scout prospect- ing the mineral potentialities of various Malay Reservations throughout the country.

In the States of Perak, Selangor and Pahang, the Unit has succeeded in scout prospecting during three quarters of this year 13,967 acres as compared with the 1962 total of 12,855 acres.

I now go to Head 52 Mines.

The Estimates of this Department provide for a small overall increase in gross expenditure from, $1,149,976 in 1963 to $1,166,475 in 1964.
Most of this increase is the result of normal incre- ments to salary and of the need to expand the activities of the Research Division so as to produce improved service to the mining industry.

I would also explain that the Depart- ment of Mines controls and supervises prospecting and mining operations, and it is responsible for the enforcement of the mining laws and regulations.

The Research Division of this Department undertakes research on aid improve- ment to methods of mining and mineral dressing.
It also investigates ore re- serves in association with the Geologi- cal Survey Department.

Now, Honourable Members are aware that tin, our principal mineral product will for many years continue 4551 8 JANUARY 1964 4552: to be one of the main pillars of our Federal Department of Mines.

The economy.
The economy.

I am happy to report that sum required under this Head is in- production in 1963 is expected to ex- tended to cover the administrative ceed that of 1962 by a modest 2 per expenses and personal emoluments and cent to 3 per cent.
Now, Sir, I come to Head S. 53, Survey Department, and I would like to inform the House that the Survey Department had made a rapid expan- sion during the period of 1960 / 1962 in order to cope with the vast influx of land development schemes under the Second Five-Year Development Plan.

This has resulted in the increase of its technicians by 250.

The overall in- crease of $259,968 is due mainly to revision of salaries of these technicians and also of junior technicians.
There is a reduction of $58,170 under Other Charges Annually Re- current.

This is due to the fact that this Department has reached its maxi- mum development on the title survey side and so no increase in field party strength has been planned for 1964.

There is only one sub-head under Special Expenditure showing an in- crease of $35,380, that is, Sub-head 13 Kereta Motor.

The increase is due to the proposal to purchase four Land Rovers to replace the old ones.
Sir, with regard to Head S. 56Q, Survey, I do not wish to say much, but Honourable Members will note that the provision is required for the adminis- trative expenses of the Survey Depart- ment in Singapore.

However, I wish to draw the attention of the House to Items (3) and (4) of Sub-head 2, under Other Charges Annually Recurrent.

The provisions for these items are only needed in 1964, because in subsequent years the services under these two items would be provided for by the Head Office in Kuala Lumpur.
I also wish to explain that the Survey Department in Singapore is engaged in ° routine sub-division and revenue work and production of land titles.

I now turn to Head S. 67H Mines.

Honourable Members will note that as other items of Other Charges Annually Recurrent.
With regard to the $50,000 under Sub-head 4, I wish to inform the House that this provision is required in connection with the operation of a Diamond Drill employed in the pros- pecting of gold deposits at Bau as well as in connection with testing of other known mineral occurrences in Sarawak.

This item was previously shown under Geological Survey (Borneo Region).

With regard to Head S. 67P there is very little that I can elaborate in ex plaining these Estimates.
They are the Federal element of expenditure for the Regional Geological Survey Offices of Sabah and Sarawak and merely show the personal emoluments of the staff required to implement the Geological Services in these two territories to- gether with other items of annual re- current expenditure.

Sir, I beg to move.
Sir, I beg to move.

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: (Kota Bharu Hilir): Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka hendak mengambil baha gian di-dalam Kementerian Pem- bangunan Luar Bandar, muka 364, Butiran (28) Pegawai Penyelidek Ekonomi, Butiran (3 l) Penolong Pe gawai Perusahaan Kampong, dan juga muka 365, Pechahan Kepala 9 Lem- baga Kemajuan Kampong dan Per usahaan is-itu RIDA.

Tuan Pengerusi, sa-bagaimana yang kita tahu bahawa sa-nya tiap2 tahun,.
Kerajaan telah membelanjakan satu perbelanjaan yang boleh di-katakan besar untok memperbaiki kedudokan ekonomi di-kampong2, tetapi sa-hingga sampai sekarang ini belum-lah kita dapat satu bukti yang terang bahawa sa-nya sekalian ranchangan2 ini, atau pun sa-tengah daripada ranchangan2T ini telah menchapai kejayaan dan ke majuan yang di-tujukan dan di-mak sudkan.

Tuan Pengerusi, di-sini biar saya.


from Malaysia Day the administration sebutkan pada muka 365, Pechahan of the Mining Ordinance of Sarawak Kepala 9 Lembaga Kemajuan Kam has become the responsibility of the pong dan Perusahaan.
Kita maseh ingat 4553 8 JANUARY 1964 4554 lagi bahawa sa-nya Kerajaan telah mendirikan bermacham2 perusahaan saperti perusahaan belachan, per- usahaan masak buah2an saperti ram- butan dan buah nau di-dalam tin, juga perusahaan membuat tali sabut dan membeli pulor sabut, dan perusahaan yang lain2 lagi, yang akhir sa-kali ia- itu perusahaan kichap yang Kerajaan telah mendirikan satu rumah yang besar yang memakan belanja yang banyak di-Datok Kramat sana, tetapi apa-kah yang telah berlaku kapada perusahaan2 mi.
Tuan Pengerusi, sa-bagaimana yang saya tahu, juga ra`ayat pun tahu bahawasa-nya boleh di-katakan semua daripada perusahaan2 ini telah tidak berj aya bahkan kilang membuat per- usahaan2 ini pun telah di-tutop.

Kilang belachan mana-kah pergi-nya?

Kilang membuat tali dan perusahaan membeli pulor sabut apa-kah telah j adi.
Saya telah menyebutkan di-dalam rumah Parlimen yang lama tatakala saya per- nah melawat ka-Morib, di-sana orange telah mengadukan hal kapada saya bahawasa-nya mereka telah menjual tiga pikul pulor sabut kapada pej abat RIDA tetapi pejabat RIDA tidak membayar wang2 pulor sabut itu ka- pada orange itu.

Walhal apabila ran- changan ini telah di-buka oleh pejabat RIDA orange kampong telah men- dapat satu mata pencharian hidup untok menambah sara hidup mereka yang sadikit di-kampong.
Mereka itu telah bekerj a dengan bersusah payah di-masa yang mereka itu ada lapang untok membuat pulor sabut itu supaya dapat di-jualkan kapada pejabat RIDA dan dengan yang demikian mereka itu sadikit sa-banyak telah - dapat wang dari pejabat RIDA.

Tetapi harapan mereka yang balk itu akhir2-nya tidak berjaya kerana pejabat RIDA sendiri menerima pulor sabut daripada mereka itu tetapi tidak di-bayar harga-nya kapada mereka itu.

Tuan Pengerusi, juga tentang per- usahaan kichap.


Kita telah dengar bahawasa-nya Kerajaan telah mengam- bil sa-orang ahli pakar membuat kichap dari Kedah sana dan telah memberi gaji kapada-nya dengan gaji yang tinggi dan hamba Allah itu telah ber- usaha untok membuat kichap tetapi apa-kah telah terjadi kapada perusaha- an kichap ini?
Sa-bagaimana yang saya tahu apabila saudara kita ini yang telah di-ambil sa-bagai sa-orang ahli pakar untok membuat kichap dia chuma dapat membuat kichap sa- banyak 50 kati kichap sahaja sa bagai experiment atau pun sa-bagai.

perchubaan, di-buat-nya dan apabila di-test di-dapati oleh Kerajaan ba hawasa-nya ada-lah kichap-nya itu memang-lah kichap yang paling baik.
Kemudian Kerajaan bersusah payah mendirikan sa-buah rumah yang besar di-Kampong Dato' Keramat di-sana yang kata-nya telah memakan belanja hampir2 $100,000 untok rumah kilang kichap itu tetapi apa-kah telah ter jadi kapada perusahaan kichap itu?

Mengikut laporan yang kita telah de ngar bahawasa-nya Kerajaan telah memberi notice kapada ahli pakar membuat kichap ini bahawasa-nya dia akan terpaksa berhenti daripada kerja nya sa-bagai ahli pakar di-akhir bulan March tahun 1964 mi.
Dan rumah kilang kichap yang telah di-dirikan di-Dato' Keramat itu tinggal bagitu sahaja sa-hingga sampai sekarang ini !

Tuan Pengerusi, ini-lah sa-,tengah daripada bukti2 yang dapat kita tunjok kan kapada ra`ayat jelata bahawasa- nya Kerajaan telah kechiwa di-dalam perkara kemajuan kampong dan peru sahaan'--nya.
Kita tahu orang Melayu kita itu is-lah pendudok di-dalam kawasan2 kampong dan mereka itu sangat-lah mempunya harapan yang besar kapada Lembaga Kemajuan Kampong dan perusahaan kerana mereka itu berfikir dan berharap mudah2an dengan ada-nya Lembaga Kemajuan Kampong dan Perusahaan.

ini dapat-lah mereka itu menambahkan.

wang perusahaan atau pun income bagi mereka yang miskin.

Kita tahu, Tuan Pengerusi, orang kampong ada-lah orang yang paling miskin sa-kali di dalam tanah ayer kita ini.
Kemiskinan mereka itu terdiri dari dua tiga sebab.

Pertama-nya., tanah yang di-mileki oleh mereka itu is-lah tanah2 yang tidak memberi pendapatan yang chukup tanah2 yang di-namakan uneconomic holding.
Oleh kerana tanah2 ini kechil yang kebanyakan-nya terdiri daripada dua ekar sahaja dan ada yang 24 ekar, 4555 8 JANUARY 1964 4556 juga ada satu ekar dan satu ekar sa- Sekarang ini, Tuan Pengerusi, kehi- tengah maka dari pendapatan unecono- dupan orange kampong dan kemis- mic holding yang tidak menchukupi ini-lah yang menyebabkan kemiskinan mereka itu.

mi satu daripada sebab-nya.


Yang kedua, ada-lah orange yang dudok di-kampong, Tuan Pengerusi, mereka itu kebanyakan bekerja di- dalam satu tahun chuma 5 atau 6 bulan sahaja.

Mereka itu is-lah under employment dan yang 5, 6 bulan lagi mereka itu tidak ada kerja.

Yang ke- tiga-nya pula tidak ada Marketing Organization.
Saya telah berchakap di- dalam rumah yang mulia di-dalam rumah Parlimen yang lama dahulu bahawasa-nya saya telah melawat di- dalam satu masa ka-Jerantut di-sana dan juga ka-tempat2 yang lain lagi, orange kampong itu merayukan hal kapada saya ba.hawasa-nya ada-lah buah2an yang di-tanam oleh mereka itu terpaksa di-jual dengan harga yang paling murah sa-kali.
Saya tengok dengan mata kepala saya sendiri, pisang rastali, pisang emas di-jual dengan harga; dua sen satu kati walhal pisang2 ini di-jual di-bandar2 dengan harga 15 sen ada juga dengan harga 20 sen. Jadi oleh sebab Kerajaan tidak membuat satu Marketing Organiza- tion satu chara bagaimana dapa.t mereka itu menjualkan buah2 ini dengan harga yang tinggi.
Sebab tidak ada chara2 ini di-buat oleh Kerajaan maka mereka itu terpaksa-lah menjual- kan dengan harga yang murah kapada orange tengah atau pun middleman yang sedia menipu mereka itu dan sedia mengisap darah mereka itu.

Maka dari tiga sebab ini yang saya sebutkan itu telah mendatangkan ke- miskinan kapada orange kampong kita.
kinan mereka itu bertambah lagi berat dengan sebab harga gula naik, harga minyak dan banyak harga barang2 yang lain yang sangat mustahak bagi kehidupan mereka2 itu telah naik harga-nya.

Walhal pendapatan mereka itu tidak naik-tidak bertambah tetapi harga makanan yang mesti di-beli ber- tambah2 naik.

Oleh sebab yang demi- kian kemiskinan orang kampong se- karang ini bertambah2 merosot.

Tetapi apa-kah satu bukti atau satu tindakan yang di-buat oleh Keraj aan untok hendak membaiki nasib mereka itu.
Di-sini apabila kita tengok di-muka 364 di-atas sa-kali ada-lah kita terbacha Pegawai Penyelidek Ekonomi, Peno- long Pegawai Perusahaan Kampong dan lain2 lagi.

Kita tidak tahu apa-kah pegawai2 ini telah membuat kerja mereka itu, ada-kah mereka telah menyelideki di-atas kesusahan orange kampong kerana sa-hingga sampai se- karang ini belum lagi ada satu bukti yang boleh kita lihat dan boleh mem- baiki kehidupan ra`ayat jelata.

Mr Chairman: Time is up.

House resumed.


Mr (Deputy ) Speaker: Honourable Members, I have to report that the Committee of Supply on the Supply Bill, 1964, has progressed up to Heads under the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare in the Schedule to the Bill.

The Committee of Supply will resume tomorrow.

The meeting is adjourned to 10.00 a.m. tomorrow.

Adjourned at 8.00 p.m.