Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697658360903.pdf (Botswana)
EMERGENCY MEETING (FINANCIAL ACTION TASK FORCE (FATF) BILLS) THURSDAY 27 JANUARY 2022 MIXED VERSION HANSARD NO: 204 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon.

Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP.

DEPUTY SPEAKER Hon.

P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP.

(Tonota) Clerk of the National Assembly Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly Acting Learned Parliamentary Counsel Assistant Clerk (E) His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP.

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP.


(Boteti West) CABINET - President - Vice President - Ms B. N. Dithapo - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe - Ms K. Kokoro - Mr R. Josiah Hon.

K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP.

(Molepolole South) - Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

K. T. Mmusi, MP.

(Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon.

Dr L. Kwape, MP.

(Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon.

K. K. Autlwetse, MP.


(Specially Elected) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon.

K. S. Gare, MP.

(Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

P. K. Kereng, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism Hon.

Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP.

(Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon.

T.M.

Segokgo, MP.

(Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon.

K. Mzwinila, MP.
K. Mzwinila, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Hon.

T. M. Rakgare, MP.

(Mogoditshane) - Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development Hon.

A. M. Mokgethi, MP.

(Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon.

P. O. Serame, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon.

F. M. M. Molao, MP.

(Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Hon.

Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP.


(Tati East) Hon.

L. M. Moagi, MP.

(Ramotswa) - Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology - Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security Hon.

M. Kgafela, MP.

(Mochudi West) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

M. R. Shamukuni, MP.

(Chobe) - Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development Hon.

E. M. Molale, MP.

(Goodhope-Mabule) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development Hon.
D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP.

(Gaborone South) - Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

S. N. Modukanele, MP.

(Lerala -Maunatlala) Hon.

T. Monnakgotla, MP.

(Kgalagadi North) Hon.

M. M. Pule, MP.

(Mochudi East) Hon.

M. S. Molebatsi, MP.


(Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

S. Lelatisitswe, MP.

(Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness Hon.

N. W. T. Makwinja, MP.

(Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education Hon.

B. Manake, MP.
B. Manake, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

H. B. Billy, MP.

(Francistown East) Hon.

A. Lesaso, MP.

(Shoshong) - Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES Names Constituency Hon.

L. Kablay, MP.

(Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon.

Dr U. Dow, MP.

Hon.


P. Majaga, MP.

Hon.

M. Balopi, MP.

Hon.

J. S. Brooks, MP.

Hon.

C. Greeff, MP.

Hon.

T. Letsholo, MP.

Hon.

T. F. Leuwe, MP.

Hon.

T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP.

Hon.

Dr T. Matsheka, MP.

Hon.

S. N. Moabi, MP.

Hon.

P. K. Motaosane, MP.

Hon.

O. Regoeng, MP.

Hon.

J. L. Thiite, MP.


Specially Elected Nata-Gweta Gaborone North Kgalagadi South Gaborone Bonnington South Kanye North Takatokwane Gaborone Central Lobatse Tati West Thamaga-Kumakwane Molepolole North Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon.

D. Saleshando, MP.

(Leader of the Opposition) Hon.

M. G. J. Motsamai, MP.


(Opposition Whip) Maun West Ghanzi South Selebi Phikwe West Mahalapye East Sefhare-Ramokgonami Ngami Okavango Maun East Bobonong Selebi Phikwe East Palapye Nkange Mahalapye West Francistown West Hon.

D. L. Keorapetse, MP.

Hon.

Y. Boko, MP.

Hon.

Dr K. Gobotswang, MP.

Hon.

C. K. Hikuama, MP.

Hon.

K. K. Kapinga, MP Hon.

G. Kekgonegile, MP.

Hon.

T. B. Lucas, MP.

Hon.

K. Nkawana, MP.

Hon.

O. Ramogapi, MP.

Hon.

Dr N. Tshabang, MP.

Hon.

D. Tshere, MP.

Hon.


M. I. Moswaane, MP.

Hon.

T. S. Khama, MP.

Hon.

L. Lesedi, MP.

Hon.

B. Mathoothe, MP.

Hon.

M. Reatile, MP.

(Botswana Patriotic Front) Serowe West Serowe South Serowe North Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon.

W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.
W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.

Francistown South (Alliance for Progressives) TABLE OF CONTENTS EMERGENCY MEETING (FINANCIAL ACTION TASK FORCE (FATF) BILLS) THURSDAY 27 JANUARY, 2022 CONTENTS PAGE (S) SPEAKER’S REMARKS..........................................................................................................................................1 GOVERNMENT BILLS Societies Bill, 2021 (No.
38 of 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)..................................................................................................................1-29 Proceeds and Instruments of Crime (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

39 of 2021) Second Reading...............................................................................................................................................30-53 Counter Terrorism (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.
40 of 2021) Second Reading..............................................................................................................................................54-61 Thursday 27th January, 2022 THE ASSEMBLY met at 11:00 a.m. (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) P R A Y E R S * * * * SPEAKER’S REMARKS MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Honourable Members, can we switch on our videos, we want to see whether we are forming a quorum so we can start.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Let us start our business of today with the continuation of the Second Reading.

SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, the debate on this Bill is resuming.

When the House adjourned yesterday Honourable Ramogapi was on the floor debating, and he is left with 10 minutes, 29 seconds.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... MR SPEAKER: The time is …(Inaudible)… it would be a trouble.
Re tlaa bona gore re tlaa tswa jang ka ene fa a ka kwala, go na le selo se gotweng chat, let us move on.

Honourable Dr Letsholathebe.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker, ke a go dumedisa mosong ono.
Mr Speaker, jaaka re ne re supa ka melao e mengwe e re ntseng re e baakanya e bile re dira e mengwe, ke gore re tlamiwa ke ba Financial Action Task Force (FATF) le ba Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-Money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG) gore re baakanye melao ya rona gore re kganele madi a a leswe a a tsenang a tswa kwa mafatsheng a mangwe.

Re kganele ditiro tse di sa siamang tse di tlaabong di tsena ka lefatshe la rona re sa ikatega.
Re gatelele gore re tswelele re se ka ra nna mo grey-list, go tlaa re re baakanye melao e. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, jaaka re ne re bua ka e mengwe melao, molao o wa Societies Act o tsamaelana le wa maabane re o bua wa trusts.

Gore kana dilo tse tsa boithaopo tse ka Sekgoa gotweng ke non-profit making, dipatlisiso di ne di supa gore e ne e le tsone tse go neng go iphitlhiwa ka tsone, go dira borukutlhi jo ke sa tswang go bua ka jone jo, terrorism acts and money laundering.
Go ne go tlhatswiwa madi ka societies and trusts tse.

Fela jaaka le ne le itse Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, go botlhokwa gore re baakanye melao e. Sa ntlha fela se re tshwanetseng gore re se baakanye jaaka ke ne ke bua, fela jaaka re baakanya kwa Companies Act, se se tonatona ke go itse fela gore, beng ba Society e ke bomang, kana this society benefits bomang, the object ya society, le gore ya re e batla go dira eng, mme fela bone ba ke bomang.
Ke boela kwa kgannyeng eo ya gore beneficial ownership e botlhokwa thata.

Mme fa re ka itse gore batho ba ke bomang, ba e leng gore they are behind these societies ke gone re ka kgonang go itse gore, yo re tswa kgakala re mmelaela kana this one was once listed by United Nations (UN), was once listed in their list gore le mmone motho yo o ka nna a tswa a na le maikaelelo mangwe.
Go dirwa jalo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke gore, makalana a a lebanyeng a Puso a tshwanetse go neelwa the Constitution kana deed of Trust, ka maabane re ne bua ka deed of Trust, ka kwa komponeng re bua ka Constitution, mme le societies e tshwanetse go supa Molaomotheo wa yone.
Mo molaomotheong wa yone re bo re supa gore ke bomang ba ba fa morago ga society e. Molao o gompieno rra o a patika gore dilo tse di supiwe, go se ka ga nna gotwe go na le society e e leng gore registration it is exempted kana go a tweng, nnyaa e e ikopetse kana e kopelwa gore e ka se ke e neelwe.

Jaanong Molao o go tshwanetse gore go nne fela jalo, mongwe le mongwe re itse gore fa morago ga society tse ke bomang.
Ke re ke gatelele gape gore, kana terrorism abuse indicators ke dilo tsa Financial Action Task Force (FATF) the indicators di supa gore makalana kana the societies kana Makgotlana a e leng gore ke one a a itseweng ka terrorism a ka tshwana le bo Al-Qaeda, the Tamil Tigers, Al-Shabaab, Hezbollah, Hamas, ke e fa sekai, ga se gore a mo mafatsheng ao fela.

A leka gore a itse koketse kana to recruit mo lefatsheng ka bophara.
They are trans-national, they go all over the world, mme the societies are vulnerable thata.

Fa ba fitlhela society gongwe e le bana ba e leng gore ga ba na mmereko, mme ba bo ba bona gore ba ikgobokanye ba dire society, ba name ba itiile ka sengwe, ke bone ba ba nnang motlhofo 1 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) gore ba tsene mo go bone.

O tlaa fitlhela e le gore go nna motlhofo to recruit ka gore go latelwa society eo.
E bo e le gore society eo e tlaabo fa gongwe e tlakisiwa ka gore, mme re a bona le a iteka banana, rona re tlaabo re le kwa Israel, Saudi Arabia kana Syria, mme re ka le thusa ka madi.

Fa society eo e amogela madi ao ke gone fela jaaka e tlaabo e inaakantse le group eo e eleng gore ke ya terrorism.

E bo ba kgona go e tsaya, e bo ba kgona to recruit mo go yone.
Ke batla go gakolola le Mapalamente a a leng fano jaaka nna jaana ka gore, Mapalamente ba tshwanetse go itse gore kwa magaeng go na le burial society, go na le society kwa ga rona; kwa Tamasane go na le ya Dingwetsi Society le Mmangwana o Tshwara Thipa ka fa Bogaleng kwa Mmadinare, ke bomme ba ikgobokantse.

Ga se gore le bone bao ga go ka ke ga tsenwa ka bone.

Ba kgona fela gore ba solofediwe matshebetshebe a madi, gotwe ba a adimiwa gore ba kgone go dira projects.
E bo e le gore fa ba a adimiwa ka interests tse di kwa tlase tota tse di kgatlhang, mme fa ba a busa ke gone jaaka madi a tlaabo a tlhatswiwa fela jalo.

Ba sena go nna ba dira project ba a busa, owaii!

fa a boela kwa jaanong ke madi a a phepa.

Mapalamente le lona le tshwanetse le e ise le kwa gae, gore e re fa batho kwa ga rona ba dira burial societies, teams tsa di ball, kana ke societies le tsone, le party tota ke society.
Fa dilo tse di dirwa fela jaana re ikgobokantse re feta 150 ka palo re tshwanetse gore re itlhokomele.

Go tshwanetse gore go nne le thuto... HONOURABLE Honourable.

MEMBER: Clarification MR MOLEBATSI: Ee rra, ke a mo neela Mr Speaker.

MR TSHERE: Point of clarification.

Thank you very much Honourable Speaker and thank you very much Honourable Molebatsi.
Ke ne ke re ke tlile go go botsa le yone… ke gore fela o ne wa tsena mo go ya diphathi tsa sepolitiki ka gore Honourable Ramogapi o letse a bua ka gore kana re kwadisa dipolotiki kwa society, but I want to draw your attention to Clause No.

2 ya definition ya society in this particular law, and if I may quote Honourable Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Yes please.

MR TSHERE: Thank you.
On Clause 2, and I quote “Society means any association of 150 or more persons for a religious society and 20 or more persons for any other society formed primarily for raising or disbursing funds for purposes of such as charitable, religious, cultural, educational, social and fraternal purposes.” So it seems like political parties are excluded Honourable Molebatsi, what do you think about this Clause, and if so political parties o akanyetsa gore di ya kae, ka gore kgang e ke tsaya gore you discussed it at Cabinet?
Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
MR MOLEBATSI: Ga ke dumele gore the political parties are excluded le fa ke tshwara Clause e o e buang gompieno, mme fela an association of 150 people or more, moo ke kereke akere for religious society and 20 people or more formed primarily for raising, disbursing funds for purposes of charitable religious cultural, educational, social or fraternal purposes, ga se gore mme political parties di ka ...(inaudible)… under social, ka gore social go raya gore re kopanngwa ke mogopolo mongwe, nna le Honourable Leuwe le bo Rre Rakgare, Honourable Moagi fa, mogopolo wa rona o mongwe fela ke wa seDomkrag.
Gongwe o tlaa dumalana le nna, le fa o sa dumalane le nna ga gona molato gore, that is the social aspect e e buiwang ke Act yone e e ka kayang political parties.

Ke tsaya jalo because go na le ...(inaudible)… aspect e e reng social, educational, cultural religious, charitable but the social part gongwe ke fa party e tsenang gone foo gore re gokaganngwa ke tumelo e ya seDomkrag, lona le gokaganngwa ke tumelo eo ya lona, e ke ka se keng ke itse gore motho o ka e kaya a reng e e senang bokao.
Ya me ke ya seDomkrag... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Moono!

MR MOLEBATSI: Ee moono one oo.

Ke ne ke rialo ke re, ke boele gone foo gore we also need to come with mitigating factors to mitigate risks ya gore re se ka ra felela re bona re tsene.

Gongwe Tona go ya kwa pele ba tle ba thuse gore ba dire thuto, gore kana lefatshe malatsi a dilo di fetogile, go na le bo social media, go na le ka fa go buiwang ka teng.
Ga go tlhokafale gore o kopane le motho to recruit them, you recruit ka maranyane one a, you recruit ka madi, madi go motlhofo gore a tsamae.

Jaanong re tlhoka thuto... HONOURABLE Honourable Molebatsi.

MEMBER: Clarification MR MOLEBATSI: Ke tlaa boela kwa go wena mogolole.

Re tlhokana le self-regulation, fela ka borona, gore fa o bona gotwe o fiwa madi go bo gotwe, re go neela P10 Million, mme mo P10 Million a mangwe P8 Million ke grant, wena o tlaa busa P2 Million fela, le gone ka conditions.
O bo itse gore madi a tota P2 2 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Million o o mmusang oo ke one a a tlhatswiwang, ao e ne e le gore ba go tlisa gaufi le wena.

Law enforcement le yone; eish!


Batlhotlhomisi ba rona le bone they must be trained, ba nne at par le se se diragalang malatsing a. Ba se ka ba tshwara kwa le kwa ba ya go latlhegelwa ke cases kwa courts, ka gore fa ba tabogela dikgang tse re felela fela e le gore ga gona sepe se se diragalang.

Le bone ba ba tshwarang go nne le melao e e rileng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... MR MOLEBATSI: Ee rra, tsena ke a go neela.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane.

MR MOSWAANE: Point of clarification.


Thank you so much.

Ke ne ke re o ne o kaya bokao jwa Domkrag ele bokao bongwe jo bo botoka go gaisa jwa moono.

Ke re a o tlhaloganya gore lefoko la seDomkrag le raya dimatla tse di thata?

Domkrag dimatla tse di thata against moono wa Batswana?

Thank you.

MR MOLEBATSI: Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Tswelela Minister.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ga ke dumele gore e gatwe ke ka e araba bagaetsho.
Ga ke itse fa dom go tewa sematla mme fela ke ne ke leka go supa Rre Moswaane gore society ke twenty people or more, ba gokaganngwa ke selo se se social, go ka tswa go raya phathi jaaka rona re le maDomkrag.

Ke ne ke re dilo tse re nne re supa gore gone re tswale, we must tighten the bolts gore terrorism acts di se ka tsa tsena through societies tsa rona ka gore go supa gore jaaka ke ne ke bua, tse dingwe societies di tlaabo di tlhamiwa (formed) di le kwano… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wa re tighten what?
MR MOLEBATSI: Tighten the bolts.
Go motlhofo, ke ntse ke bala report e nngwe jaana; a terrorist, le fa e se terrorist, e le a society outside Botswana, tse dingwe di a itsiwe bo Mafia le tse dingwe, ba kgona gore ba bue le nna ke le Molebatsi ke le Botswana gore, wena dira society koo o le mo Botswana mme society eo ya gago o ka e bitsa leina le le farologaneng, mme re tlaabo e le gore society yone eo ka mogopolo o o reng o a dira, o rile o tlaa tlhabolola ba Mmadinare ka go ba direla se, rona re tlaa go tshelela madi gore o fiwe lefatshe koo o batle dilo mme re tlaa go tshelela madi o bo o dira se o se dirang.
Fa o sena go dira se o se dirang e bo e le gore o dira madi jaaka gotwe profit-making jaaka Honourable Tshere a ne a tlhalosa.

E bo e le gore fa o sena go dira profit ya gago o bo o re busetsa madi a rona ka terms tse di rileng.

Ke gone jaaka ba tlaabo ba tlhatswa madi jaana mme ba dirisitse wena kana society mo Botswana.
Jaanong ke fete ka Clause nngwe e re kileng ra e bua maabane e Honourable Ramogapi a neng a bua ya gore a go ka se ke ra dira society kwano e golagane le society e nngwe kwa lefatsheng le lengwe.

Ke sone se re neng re se bua gore society fa e le mo Botswana e tshwanetse gore e nne le constitution ya yone re bone gore e batla go dira jang.

Al Qaeda, Hamas kana Al-Shabaab ke e fa sekai, ga e ka ke ya nna le branch jwa yone mo Botswana ga nna motlhofo fela jalo le political parties fela jalo.
Ke tlhalose fela gore political party e e tshwanang le Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) gongwe e le kwa South Africa, re bo re re re nne le branch ya EFF mo Botswana, ga go ka ke ga nna sentle.

Molao o ga o ka ke wa letlelela gore go nne le dilo tse di ntseng jaana.
Se setona bagaetsho ke gore ka bokhutshwane fela ke lebagane le molao o. O direlwa fela gore go se ka ga dirisiwa societies jaaka ke ne ke bua gore e bo e le gore go tlhatswiwa madi ka tsone e bo e le gore ke tsone tse di dirisiwang gore to recruit banana ba Botswana segolo gore ba tsene mo terrorist societies kwa mafatshefatsheng.
Se ke sone se e leng gore re tshwanetse gore le rona re le Mapalamente re se itse, re rutwe gore le rona re rute batho kwa dikgaolong gore kana fa o bona le dira burial society jaana kamoso e kgona go dirisiwa gore e bo e dira ditiro tse di sa siamang.

Di dintsi; e ka tswa e le political parties jaaka go ne go buiwa.
Tse dingwe gongwe di a šheleketla, ga di na madi mme le tsone di itlhokomele gore di se ka tsa bona motho fela a tswa fela a kgona go ba adima fly machines le tse dingwe ka gore kwa morago ga dikadimo tseo kana dithuso tseo go na le se se batliwang.

Go ka tswa go batliwa gongwe meamuso ya lefatshe la rona.

Gongwe go batliwa diteemane tsa lefatshe la rona.

Fa re ka se ke re tlhokomele, re ka fitlhela re rekisa lefatshe la rona ka go tlogela batho ba tsena ka diphathi tsa rona.

Phathi ke society.
Phathi ke society.

Ke dumela gore phathi e kwadisiwa fela mo Societies Act.

Re nne careful ka dilo tseo.

A e se ka ya re batho ba tla… ke rotloetsa gore diphathi di ipatlele madi ka gore ga gona party funding mo lefatsheng la rona mme re nne careful rona kwa diphathing.

Kwa dibolong, nna ke moNotwane, fa go tla motho jaaka go kile ga tla motho a re o tsaya Notwane o tla e dira jaana, ke mongwe wa batho ba ba neng ba gana.

Ke ne ke gana mme Rre Molale o ka bua.


Motho yo o ne a bua gore o tlaa sponsor Notwane… 3 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: A wa re nna ke ne ke dumela ne monna?

MR MOLEBATSI: Wena o ne o dumela, Rre Molale o ne a dumela nna ke bo ke gana.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O mpua leswe.


MR MOLEBATSI: Jaanong ke sone bagaetsho ke re football teams or sporting codes, most of them are societies mme le tsone re nne careful ka gore… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa tlhaloso Rre Molebatsi.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ee rra, tsena.

MR SALESHANDO: Ke utlwa o gatelela thata ya political parties, nna ke nnile le itemogelo bošheng re dirisanya le Registrar of Societies a bo a re kwalela lekwalo gore ene ga a kwadise political parties.
A o a tlhomamisa gore sone seo jaanong se fetogile; molao o o itebaganya le diphathi ka gore Registrar of Societies ene ga a bue jaaka wena o ne o bua?

MR MOLEBATSI: Go ne gotweng?

MR SALESHANDO: Ke ne ke re Registrar of Societies from recent experience re kwalelana le ene makwalo re le ba Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC), o ne a supa gore ene ga a kwadise political parties.

A o a tlhomamisa gore jaanong seemo se fetogile, Registrar of Societies o kwadisa diphathi e bile molao o akaretsa le diphathi?
MR MOLEBATSI: Nnyaa, se ke lekang go se supa ke gore batho ba terrorism le ba money laundering ba ka tsena mostly ka Non-Profit making Organisations (NPOs) and political parties is one of the NPOs mme NPOs di kwadisiwa kwa mafelong a a farologaneng.

Ga ke itse mme gongwe political parties as an NPO e kwadisiwa ke Registrar golo gongwe o sele, e seng kwa Societies Act but the fact remains it is an NPO e e leng gore money laundering activities di ka kgona gore di tsene ka yone.
Se setona bagaetsho ke digela… LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR SALESHANDO): Procedure.

Mr Speaker, ke kopa go botsa gore a re ka tlhomamisetswa ke Legal Counsel position ya molao, e se ka ya nna fela gore re gatelele political parties; e re gotwe tlhomamisa o bo o re nnyaa, ke ne ke feta fela ka yone gore go nne clear gore a re a re golo fa re baakanyetsa go itebaganya le diphathi gore fa di bona dithuso re bo re dirisa molao o jaanong le gone gotwe ke terrorism?

I think this one has to be cleared.


MR SPEAKER: Let the Minister finish his debate.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ga ke itse gore a o botsa nna kana Legal Advisor?

MR SPEAKER: Wena Minister, just finish your debate o tswe mo go tse tsa legal.

MR MOLEBATSI: Mr Speaker, se ke se buang ke gore ka re non-profit organisations di itlhokomele gore di se ka tsa dirisiwa ke terrorism organisations gore ba tlhatswe madi ka bone, including political parties.

Ke sone se ke se buang.


Mr Speaker, ke wetsa ke re molao o ke a o support, o maleba.

Ke dumela gore re utlwane gone fa gore e se ka e a re kamoso re bo re tlogetse batho ba rona; burial societies le football teams di dirisitswe gore e bo e le gore madi ke one a e leng gore a tlhatswiwa ka bone kana go dirisiwa batho ba rona being recruited ka gore go fitlhelwa e le gore ba setse ba ikgobokantse ba le golo go le gongwefela gore ba felele ba tsene mo dikgannyeng tsone tse.
Molao o o baakanyetswa gore re thibe diphatlha tseo.

Ka go rialo, ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

Honourable Saleshando, potso e o e botsang I think was raised by Honourable Ramogapi maabane.

Ke ne ke itheile ka re o tlaa e tsweledisa gompieno so that the matter can be clarified.

Fa e le gore ka fa ene a neng a tlhaloganya ka teng ga se gone, a thusiwe a tsenngwe mo tseleng.
Fa e le gore ke gone, then Ntlo yotlhe e batlotlegi, le utlwe ba ba ithutileng molao gore bone ba re molao o fa ba o lebile mabapi le diphathi tsa sepolotiki ba re wa reng ka diphathi.

Honourable Ramogapi, you can continue your arguments, and you have got any more points on these political issues before we ask Counsel.

MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Tanki Mr Speaker, go bo o ntetleletse, maranyane a ne a sa ntse a gana.
Ke simolole fela Mr Speaker, ka go taboga ka bofefo ka gore, kana maabane ke letse ke tshwere kgang ya gore molao o o batla gore o baakanngwe sentle ka gore Section 7 ya Molaomotheo o disqualifies, o na le mo go tweng disqualification for office bearers.

Office bearer go tewa motho yo o tshwanang president, chairperson kana secretary.

Molao o wa re motho yo 4 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) ga a a tshwanela gore e bo e le lepolotiki, Mopalamente kana e le mokhanselara, ga a a tshwanela gore a bo a ka nna le mokgatlho.

Yone ntlha e fela e re raya e re fa Motlotlegi Tautona Dr Masisi a ka batla go nna le mokgatlho gongwe a kobilwe kwa Domkrag, go raya gore kana o a mo disqualify, ga a ka ke a nna le mokgatlho.
E bile gape go raya gore fa re lebelela kwa pele, le mo mokgatlhong o a leng mo go one wa Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) ka e le Tautona, ga a a tshwanela gore a bo a le mo mokgatlhong o ka gore Section 7 e itsa eng, e itsa any member of the National Assembly, e itsa gore Mokhanselara ope fela a seka a ba a nna mo mokgatlhong, fa a nna mo mokgatlhong, ke disqualification.

Ntlha e e tshwanelwa ke gore e lebiwe thata, ga e a siama rraetsho Mr Speaker.
Ntlha ya bobedi e e leng gore ke bona e sa siama e le maswenyana mo molaong o Mr Speaker ke Section 6 e e buang ka refusal to register.

Ya re fa go ka fitlhelwa e le gore mokgatlho o connected le phathi nngwe kana le sepolotiki sengwe, ga o a tshwanelwa go kwadisiwa.

Kana gone fa ke gone fa re reng political parties are connected le diphathi tse dingwe tse di kwa ntle.

Sekai, phathi ya Domkrag e tswa kgakala go tswa ka boipuso e le connected le phathi ya ga Mmamosadinyana kwa Ennyelane.
Phathi ya Botswana Congress Party (BCP) go a itsege e connected le Labour Party.

Ra re dilo tse fa e le gore gatwe fa phathi e le connected le e nngwe ga e ka ke ya kwadisiwa, ga go a siamela lefatshe la rona gotlhelele ka gore re itse gore o ya go dirisiwa jang jaanong, e a re go le kamoso go bo gotwe nnyaa disqualification, mokgatlho o wa gago o connected le phathi ele ka gore diphathi di nna connected, di a dirisana.

Go tswa kwa ngwageng wa 1965 di ne di ntse di dirisana jalo.
Ke letse ke ba fa sekai ke re phathi ya Botswana Peoples Party (BPP) ka nako ya boipuso e ne e le connected le phathi ya kwa Ghana ya bo Nkrumah jalojalo, ba bo ba thusa ka madi gore go ka rekiwa Land Rovers le tse dingwe fela.

Jaanong gore re bo re tsentse clause e ke bona e sa siama thata Mr Speaker.

Clause e nngwe e e sa siamang ke Section 2; it defines society, ka gore go na le fa e buang gore religious society e tshwanetse gore e bo e na le 150.
E kgetholola dikereke Mr Speaker, gore societies tse dingwe tsone di ka nna maloko a le 20 go siame fela, mme jaanong fa e le kereke yone gatwe e nne le 150.

Gone mo ke bona go sa siamela lefatshe gotlhelele e le gore Domkrag ke gore e batla go kgokgontsha dikereke ka tsela e e leng gore ga e a siama.

Jaaka e le gore ka nako ya COVID-19 palo e ba neng ba e amogela mo kerekeng, ba ne ba re ke 50, gore ke yone palo fela e e amogelesegang.
Gompieno gatwe fa o register kereke, o bo o na le batho ba le 150, mme gatwe golo mo go bereke fela mo kerekeng mekgatlho e mengwe yone e siame.

Ke ipotsa gore Domkrag gatwe kereke e e dirile eng fela se se tonatona mo e leng gore ba e ila lebaibai.

Ba a ba rapelela, fa ba sena go nna ba ba rapelela ba bo ba …(inaudible)… go gaisa le sone segotlhola.

Golo mo ke gore batho ba Modimo gatwe re hutsitswe ke mang mo e leng gore ga re batle gore kereke ya Modimo re itse gore it is a holly institution.
Kereke ya Modimo ke yone e e… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke tlaa tla ke go neela nte ke go tlhalosetse pele, ga o tlhaloganye.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gongwe e bile ga o tsene kereke.

MR RAMOGAPI: Heela!

fa o le Tona ga o a tshwanela go parola, keep quiet!

Kereke ga e a tshwanela gore e nne le batho ba le kwa tlase ga 150, ba re ‘150 or more’ when they define religious.

Ka re dikereke tsone tse ke bone ba ba ntseng ba ba rapelela.
Re itse kereke fela fa re batla pula, fa gotwe we ordain Tautona, re itse kereke fela fa re batla ditlhopho go tswa gone foo re huralela kereke gotlhelele.

FATF ga e ise e re e tsenya gore palo ya kereke e nne kae.

Ke Motlotlegi Mma Mokgethi fela o batla to punish kereke, o batla go itira Paulo yo e leng gore o ne a bogisa kereke mo go gakgamatsang.

Batho betsho, mo kerekeng ke a gana.


Ke gopola kereke ya ga Basimolodi kwa Palapye ke a itse gore e na le batho ba le …(interruption)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Murmurs)… MR RAMOGAPI: Ke gopola kereke kwa Palapye, Chukuchuku, ke itse gore di sokola go le kae go bona maloko a mantsi, mme rona mo Palamenteng e re bo re re re ka tla ra fetisa molao o o reng kereke fa e le kwa tlase ga 150 ga se kereke, kereke e nne fela 150, nnyaa.
MaDomkrag, ke a le kopa, a ko le beye se Domkrag kwa thoko, gompieno re akanyetse kereke ya Modimo ka gore batho ba re a ba dirisa ba a re rapelela, re fano ka bone, re tshela ka bone, mme fela fa go tla go tsena go ba kgokgontsha ka melao, re ba kgokgontsha mo go gakgamatsang.

Maabane jaana re ne re recognise gore 5 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) 50 ke yone palo fela e e leng gore kereke e ka tsena, le bo le dirisa yone, jaanong fa go tla go tsena mo go kwadiseng ga le re 50, la re 150.

Motho o ya go tsaya kae dipalo tse di kana tsa gore e re fa a register go bo gotwe tlaa ka batho ba le 150, mme fa e le gore o dira mokgatlho o mongwe gatwe tlaa ka batho ba le 20.
Kgang e ya kereke Mr Speaker, ga ke batle go e tlogela, e bile ke bona e le gore kereke ke yone fela e e kgethololwang mo molaong one o, ke re nnyaa, batho betsho.

Go tshwana fela le utlwa gotwe nnyaa, dikereke tse dingwe batho ba Modimo tsa Chukuchuku ga di itse go tshwara madi, re tshwanetse gore re tlhaloganye re bo re amogele gore dikereke tse ga re lekane jaaka thutego, ba bangwe ba a tlhaela fa ba tlhaelang teng.
Ba bangwe ba ntse ba bua ka political parties, mme ke ba gakolole gore Schedule Section 3 ya molao one o o mogologolo e bile o kwadile diphathi mo teng.

O kwadilwe gore Schedule Section 3, e bale ka bonako e kgologolo, ya re go na le phathi ya BDP, BAP, Botswana National Front (BNF), le ya Botswana Progressive Union (BPU).

Jaanong go raya gore political parties di ne di ntse di lemogwa ka molao o mogologolo.
Jaanong fa register yo mongwe a batla, o kgona to shift goals fela a bo a re nnyaa nna ga ke recognise political parties gotlhelele, e bile ga ke a tshwanela go di register.

Kgang e tona Mr Speaker, ke gone fa gore ke gore mme fa re re political parties ga re a tshwanela gore re di recognise, ra re tsone di a go tsena fa kae?

A re tlhaloseng Batswana gore political parties tsone a ra re mo molaong di ntse di a tsena kana la re le a di ntsha maDomkrag.
Ka fa e leng gore re tsamaisa ka teng, go lebega o kare jaanong le e ntsha ka style se se kwa godimo thata.

Kana fa o disqualify Motlotlegi Saleshando o re ga a ka ke a nna le mokgatlho wa sepolotiki, go raya gore o mo kganela go nna le mokgatlho wa sepolotiki go yeng ka fa le buang ka teng ka disqualification of office bearers.

Nnyaa maDomkrag heelang, busetsang molao o kwa morago le o baakanye.
Legale fa e le gore ga le ikaelele go o baakanya, e tlaa re fa le ya go tsena kwa Ditshutisong tsa stages, ke bo ke ema ka dinao ke bona gore nnyaa re sireletsa dikgatlhego tsa sepolotiki sa rona ka gore ga le ka ke la re kganela gore le kwa ntle re nne le affiliation kana re nne le connection.

There is no political funding in Botswana, so go raya gore re ipatlele ditsala.
Fa re ipatletse tsala go bo gotwe nnyaa jaanong registrar o ka gana go re kwadisa fela ka gore re na le connection re na le tsala golo gongwe, nnyaa batho betsho.

A ko le bale Molaomotheo o sentle, kana wa re ‘or any connection,’ connection fela ya gore nnyaa re a dirisana re kgona go itseela madi, dikitso, eng, go bo gotwe nnyaa ga re ka ke ra kwadisiwa, nnyaa.

Nnyaa batho betsho, se iphitlheng ka FATF le bo le tsenya melao e e leng gore jaanong ke ya dikgatlhego tsa lona.
O jaanong ke wa go thobetsa democracy, ga se sepe fela gape, ka re nnyaa a re boeleng kwa morago.

MaDomkrag fa dintlha tse ke di ntshitseng tse le a bona gore di siame di popota di motia, di sekasekeng le sa tsenye sepolotiki mo teng.

Fa e le ya kereke yone, ke batla gore ke e gatelele gore le tle le kgome kereke ya Modimo, ke a le bolelela ka re se tlaa le diragalela, e seng mo kerekeng.

O bona le ka di tsenya dilo tsotlhe e seng mo kerekeng ya Modimo.
Mo kerekeng ya Modimo le tle le e kgome, le tlaa bona go sele, le a tswa mo Pusong ka bofefo jo bo seng kana ka sepe ka gore ke a le bona gore le ikaelela gore le tlhoe kereke ya Modimo ...(Interruptions)... bo na le lona bo tlaa le tukela, ga le kitla le siamelwa ke sepe.

Le baruti ba batona ba ntheeditse bo Bishop Motlhagodi gore la re le batla go kgetholola kereke.
Bo Bishop ba batona ba setse ba ipaakanya, ba thaakantse ditsebe, ke ba boleletse ka re nthusang koo, maDomkrag ba gaketse ba kgetholola kereke ba re e se ka ya ba ya kwadisiwa, mme le tle le e kgome.

Go siame Mr Speaker, ke ba boleletse ba utlule.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Ramogapi.

Honourable Members, the question persists as to whether we do not know if we are now dealing with the Clauses, the comprehension of this Bill clearly indicates where political parties fall.
Are they as in the present Act, societies because under the present law, even though they are exempted, they are societies.

Under the proposed Bill, would they be registrable as societies with membership as defined that if you are an Member of Parliament (MP), a Councillor, in the Ntlo ya Dikgosi, you cannot be a Member where exactly is the understanding of where the political parties will be.
Fortunately, the Minister in her own right is a trained lawyer, she could also help us but we have Parliamentary Counsel who is neutral and fa Mmaetsho Mma Kokoro if you had time to reflect on the matter, you might give your opinion to the House concerning the position of political parties under the present law and the proposal.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, if you can give an opportunity as you are saying, that explanation should be given regarding political parties under the Societies Act.
If you can give me that opportunity now, so that I can address it.

6 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Yes Minister because I do not want you to go into the debate, gongwe ba repeat same arguments when there is an explanation.

Please Minister, go ahead.

MINISTER OF NATIONALITY, IMMIGRATION AND GENDER AFFAIRS (MS MOKGETHI): I think it can assist us in the debate Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Gongwe ga a nkutlwa.


Minister ra re it is appropriate that you explain so the House can understand the position which worries them, that henceforth fa ba debate, ba bo ba itse, ba tlhalogantse gore gatwe seemo e tlaabo e le sefe.

So have the floor Honourable Minister.

MS MOKGETHI: Thank you Mr Speaker, for giving me that opportunity.

Honourable Ramogapi and Honourable Tshere have made appropriate observation.
I will start with the definition under Section 2 of the society and you will note that it excludes political party.

Even under the current Societies Act, the one which is currently operational, political parties are not included in the definition of the society.

The Registrar of Society only have the right to register political societies but not to regulate them.
So we are going to move an amendment for the removal of Section 6 1(a), 7 (a) and 9 1(a) on the basis that a special dispensation will be made later on that will register and regulate political parties.

So with that sir, I hope that will clear the midst regarding the issue of political parties.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: A ko o e soboke ka segarona re go tlhaloganye ka ba bangwe Sekgoa se mo gongwe se a re tsietsa.
Wa re maikaelelo ke gore pheletsong ka fa tlase ga Molao-kakanyetso o... MS MOKGETHI: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke leka go tlhalosa gore fa tlase ga Section 2, e e tlhalosang gore makgotla ke a mohuta o o ntseng jang.

O tlaa lemoga gore fa re bua ka definition ya society, o tlaa bona gore makgotla a sepolotiki ga a tsenngwa mo teng.

Le fa re lebeletse the Societies Act e e mo tirisong mo nakong e, ga e a tsenya diphathi tsa sepolotiki mo teng.
In fact, ka fa e kwalegileng ka teng mo motsotsong o, mo molaong o e leng gore o mo tirisong gone jaanong, e a bua gore Societies Act ga e a akaretsa diphathi tsa sepolotiki mme gone fela e ne e letlelela kwadiso ya tsone.

Jaanong ka gore re na le maikaelelo a gore go ye go nna le thulaganyo e sele mabapi le kwadiso, taolo le tsamaiso ya diphathi tsa sepolotiki go raya gore go ya go dirwa thulaganyo e e faphegileng mme di tswe fa tlase ga the Societies Act.
Ka jalo maikaelelo a rona ke gore re ntshe 6 1(a), 7 1(a) le 9 1(a) jaaka go kwalegile mo Bill e e fa pele ga rona batlotlegi.

Ke ne ke re ke tlhalose fela jalo.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

So there you are Honourable Members, the Minister is going to come with amendments to try and sort out as far as the ...(Inaudible)… possible, the issue raised by Honourable Ramogapi and other Honourable Members regarding political parties.
So if we debate with that understanding, I do not think we should belabour the points, we can certainly return to it when we go to committee ...(Inaudible)… A re tsweleleng batlotlegi.

MINISTER OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (DR LETSHOLATHEBE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Let me start off by apologising for earlier problem.

I had some connection problems.

I really acknowledge that there is an issue in progress.
Let me get to the issue and thank you once more for giving me the opportunity ya gore le nna ke akgele mo molaong one o, the Societies Bill.

Molao-kakanyetso o re batla go o baakanya Mr Speaker.

Paakanyo ya teng e le yone re le mo moonong o re batlang gore re lomagane, re berekisanye sentle le ba the FATF le their regional body the Eastern and Southern Africa Anti- Money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG).
Mr Speaker, ke tsaya gore re mosepele o e leng gore jaaka fa ke ne ke bua fa ke ne ke akgela kwa ntlheng ...(Interruptions)... MR SPEAKER: Mr Molebatsi, a ko le ithute go reetsa batho ba bangwe fa ba bua.

Continue Dr Letsholathebe.

DR LETSHOLATHEBE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Re mo moonong wa go rulaganya the way re dirang ditirisanyo tsa rona tsa madi ka teng.

Re dirisanye sentle le FATF le ESAAMLG.

Mr Speaker, ke ema nokeng Tona mo go baakanyeng molao o gore o tsamae sentle.
Go botlhokwa to ensure that the non-profit sector e re nang le yone mo Botswana, re le Batswana becomes protected from these people.

Ba ba bonang batho ba ba boifang Modimo, ba dira football teams gore ba dirise mo dikgannyeng tsa money laundering le financing terrorism.

Ke ka jalo ke emang Tona nokeng gore a lebalebe molao o, a o baakanye.

Dikakgelo tse di lebaganeng le Clauses ka go farologana, re tlaa tla re di tsenya jaaka fa a sa tswa go bua Mr Speaker.
7 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Sengwe se ke batlang go feta ka ga sone ke gore, thuto e tshwanetse e tsene mo societies tsa rona.

Gantsi re le Batswana, re batho ba re tshephang thata.

Bontsi jwa rona re batho ba re boifang Modimo.

Fa go tla mo dikgannyeng tsa societies di tshwana le dikereke, re na le go tsaya gore go botsa dipotso tse dingwe, ke go nyatsa ditaelo tsa Modimo.
Ka jalo, ke sengwe se e leng gore we need to open our eyes, re rute Batswana.

We are gullible people ba re ka dirisiwang ke batho ba tswa kwa ntle.

Ba ka re dirisa ka ditsela tse e seng tsone.

Re bo re felela re gotlhagotlhana le mafatshe a mangwe.

If you remember what I insisted in my first debate ke gore, we need these people.

Re tlhokana le batho ba gore re tle re berekisanye le bone sentle.

Re bone thuso go sena mathata ape.

Ke sengwe se re tshwanetseng re se dire.


Re boele kwa bathong, communities tsa rona re ba rute ka issues tsa penalties tsa molao o, gore fa o sa dira dilo tse dingwe sentle, o ka lebaganwa ke eng.

Re rute botlhokwa jwa go dira auditing tsa accounts tse gore botlhokwa jwa tsone ke eng.

Ke a tlhaloganya rona kwa Head Mountain, Saint John le tse dingwe tse re di tsenang, o fitlhela go sena accountants di le dintsintsi.

Botswana o rutile banana ba le bantsintsi who will be willing to help.
Fa o kare go ntse go tsewa moneelonyana ba fiwa sengwenyana, ba ka thusa gore kereke e nne e lebile.

Dikgang tsa to audit, go dira eng, e a bo e se gore o akanyetsa gore moruti o ja madi fela kana go rileng.

Ke go thusa gore go nne le trace, go itsege gore gatwe madi a tswa kae a ya kae.

Bagaetsho, ke gatelele gore we need to help our communities gore ba tlhaloganye gore molao o, o direlwa gore o re sireletse more than gore o re kgokgontshe.

Kereke ga re ka ke ra e kgoma tsala ya me Honourable Ramogapi.
Re boifa Modimo thata, ke le kwa pele.

Re le bantsi, ga re itse dingaka tsa Setswana, re fano ka tshireletso ya Modimo.

Re fano ka dithapelo tsa dikereke.

Ka jalo, ga go na ka tsela epe e ke ka dumalanang le molao ope o o gatakang dikereke.

Tse dingwe di a bo di dirwa e le gore batho ba sireletswe.

Fa gongwe molao o kgona go go sireletsa, o bo o fitlhela o sa o lebe sentle, o tsaya gore o a go kgokgontsha.

We have members joining societies tse ba le very open minded and trusting.
Fa o lebelela molao o, o supa gore if you join legal societies tse di sa kwadisiwang sentleng, o kgona go tseelwa dikgato ka dikgang tse di amanang le society ya go nna jalo.

Ba tlhaloganye gore if you join society eo, o nne le dithata tsa go tlhaloganya gore a mme e kwadisitswe sentle, sengwe le sengwe se tsamaya sentle.

Go ne go buiwa ka trusts maabane Mr Speaker.


Sengwe se se diragalang, se re tshwanetseng re se bulele matlho ke gore ba bangwe ba tsaya shortcuts ba dirisa trusts, a bo ba felela ba dirile dikereke ka tsone.

O bo o fitlhela o kare dikereke ke tsone tse di sa direng sentle mme in actual fact, ga se batho ba ba kwadisitseng dikereke tsa bone sentle.

Ke rotloetse Batswana gore re bule matlho, re tlhaloganye gore dilo tse di dirwa sentle.
Mr Speaker, nna le wena ka tlotlo mongwame, re tswa kwa e leng gore football ka dinako tse re tswang mo go tsone tsa Christmas, ke yone dikhwaere tsa rona.

Ke dinako tse re neng re tshameka re le Man U, Tsamaya Hungry Lions le tse dingwe tse di gasagasameng kwa Tati East le North East ka bophara.

O ka bona gore societies di botlhokwa mo matshelong a rona.

Lefatshe ka bophara, Honourable Rakgare a ka dumalana le nna gore football is one of those followed worldwide.
O fitlhela e le gore there are around 38 million registered footballers worldwide.

Ba rata gone foo, ba ba tsamaisang madi a e seng one.

Ba rata gone foo, ba ba tlhatswang madi a a sa nnang sentle.

Ka jalo, re tshwanetse re bule matlho, re bolelele societies, teams tsa rona gore jaaka di tlaabo di kopa contributions gotwe re dira tournament, ba itse gore madi a tswa sentle.

E se ka ya tloga kamoso motho a dirisa madi a sa tlhaloganye gore go diragala eng.
I really want to support gore molao o, o lejwalejwe, go kganelwe gore o se ka wa tloga wa tsenya Batswana mo mathateng.

Banana ba rona ba rata sports ka pharologanyo segolobogolo football jaaka ke sa tswa go bua.

Re tshwanetse re ba sireletse.

Kereke ke bue ka ga yone.

Sengwe se ke se itemogetseng, bakereki jaaka nna ba tlaa intshwarela, mo dikerekeng tse dingwe ke bona sebe se tsene mo kerekeng.

Sebe se tsene mo kerekeng mo e leng gore go felela e le gore madi a isitswe kwa pele.
Madi go felelwa a isitswe kwa pele go na le poifo Modimo.

Fundraising e ka dirwa, mme kgantele o felele o kopile madi kwa bathong ba e seng bone.

Ka jalo, dikereke di tshwanetse di bule matlho.

Go ka felela e le gore mokereki jaaka nna, ke le motho yo ke tlhokang madi thata jaana, e re ke tsene mo kerekeng go felele gotwe madi a kgona go tla ka ditsela tse dintsintsi.

Ke felele ke fitlhela millions di tsene mo phone ya me.

Go bo gotwe ke jaaka Modimo a mphile, kante ke batho ba a fetisa ka nna.
Morago go bo gotwe jaaka o filwe millions, tlisa millions tse dingwe di tsene mo kerekeng, e le tsela ya go ka tsamaisa madi a a sa nnang sentle.

Ke dithuto tse Batswana ba tshwanetseng ba di rutiwe.

Re ba tlhalosetse gore it is for their protection.

Ga re batle go tloga kamoso go simolola 8 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) gotwe go itsisiwa Interpol gore re batla rre semangmang ka koo, o na le tirisanyo le batho ba ba fetisang madi a a fetelelang kwa Mozambique.

Motho wa Modimo a ne a tsere gore ke madi fela.

Ke tshaba go dirisa lefoko le re le dirisang kwa dikerekeng tsa rona la miracle money, gore re tlhaloganye, ke le dirise fela.

Ba tlaa tloga ba re ke madi, kante ke a a diphatsa.

bangwe ba tsena foo, ba batla go dirisa kereke ya go nna jalo go tlhatswa madi a bone.
Ka go rialo Mr Speaker, ke sone se se supang fela gore indeed, we need to look at this, we need to review molao o, re lebeletse gore we are doing it for the protection of Batswana.

Re se ka ra tloga ra bona batho kamoso ba re nnyaa, e ne e le gore mathata re ne re tlhokana le madi a go aga dikereke.

Mr Speaker, ke leboge Tona.

MR MOTSAMAI: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.
Motlotlegi Letsholathebe, ke go dumedise, ke bo ke tsena mo kgannyeng ya gore a kgang e o e buang e, are you linking it to e e dirang gore e bo e ne e kete sebe se tsenye mo kerekeng?

A o e kopanya le kgang ya gore maloko a kereke ba felela ba nna bahumanegi ba nta ya tlhogo ka lebaka la go amogiwa ditsabone ka ditsela tse di sa siamang tsa gore gotwe ba ntshe moneelo ka wardrobes, malao, fridges le madi a pension?
A bo ba felela e le gore motho wa Modimo o sala jalo, moruti go sa itsiwe le kwa a ileng teng.

Ke a leboga.

DR LETSHOLATHEBE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke go leboge Honourable Motsamai.

Le nna ke go dumedise my brother mo ngwageng o mosha o.

Indeed, go ntse jalo.

Bakereki fa gongwe fa re bua ka Modimo, re na le go bua ka poifo.

Mo go tse dingwe re tshwanetse re bue boammaaruri gore re thuse Batswana.
Mo go tse dingwe dikereke jaaka ke re sebe se tsene mo kerekeng, o fitlhela e le gore people take advantage of Batswana.

Go bo go felela e le gore Batswana motho wa teng salary yotlhe o e isa gone koo.

Ke sengwe se re tlaa tswelelang re rapela Honourable Motsamai gore dilo tsa go nna jaana di tswe mo go rona.

Kana kereke ke selo se se botlhokwa Mr Speaker.

Re tswa mo dinakong tse di bokete, rona ba bangwe go riana re ntse maabane re tsoga mo bolaong jo bo bokete jwa bolwetse jwa COVID-19.
Ke sengwe se se neng se re tsentse mo mathateng a matona.

Se se re tshidisitseng bogolo ke thapelo le baruti ba nna ba ntse ba re gomotsa.

Ba ba neng ba tlhoka lesego, ba tlhokafalelwa ke batsadi le masika a bone, dikereke di ne di le koo, di ba gomotsa go simolola mo letsatsi le go oleng mathata, go tsena mo letsatsing la bofelo.

Se se supa botlhokwa jwa dikereke Mr Speaker, ka jalo re tshwanetse go di tlhokomela, re di sireletse against dilalome tse.
Re tshwanetse go bona gore transparency and accountability is done gore re sireletse batho bagarona.

Ga re batle gore e re re na le kereke e ntle e e tshwanang le ya bo Spiritual e e kwa Matsiloje, e Batswana ba e ikagetseng ka matsogo a bone, e bo e felela e le gore Ke a itse kwa Tati East, ke tsamaile thata fa ke kopa dithapelo nako e ke neng ke campaign, ke batla go thusiwa.

Ke ne ke tsena mo dikerekeng tse di tsenelang mo disenkeng le ka fa tlase ga ditlhare.

I know their needs Mr Speaker.


Fela ke gone moo gore as they need that, they need to know gore go na le ba ba ka tlang ka ditsela di sele.

Ka jalo Mr Speaker, ka boikobo, ke go ikobela mongwame, ka sebaka se, ke batla gore ke tseye nako e ke support Minister mo Tshutisong ya gagwe, ya gore a baakanye molao o gore re kgone go dirisana le bo FATF.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): Tanki Mr Speaker.

Ke dumedise batlotlegi le setšhaba ka kakaretso.


Mr Speaker, kana re a bo re bua ka Societies Bill, e le botlhokwa, re dumela gore e botlhokwa.

Fa re e leba, le dikgang which are pending kwa ministry wa ga Honourable Tona tse di tshwanang le tsa bo Citizenship Act e re e solofetseng gore e tle e baakanngwe.

Ke sale ke ntshitse Tshutiso ka 2019, Palamente ya e dumela gompieno go 2022, from 2019 up to gompieno, batho ba ntse ga ba na boagedi, ba citizenless mme ba nna mo lefatsheng la rona.
Ga ba na bo Omang le dipasa, ba a bereka, ba fiwa madi ka envelopes, mme Tona o ntse o foo.

Societies Bill e botlhokwa, mme fa a ne a tsibogetse Citizenship Act jaaka a tsibogetse Societies Bill, re ka bo re bua Batswana ba tsweletse ba tshela.

Jaanong go lebega o kare dikgang tsa kgwebo le itsholelo, di tla kwa pele thata ga matshelo a Batswana a letsatsi le letsatsi kwa magaeng.

Dilo tse ga di a siama.


Mr Speaker, fa o lebeletse Clauses kana sections tse dingwe gone fa, thatathata gore tota gone mme in the first place, ke eng fa re ntse re nna le bo exemption mo societies tsa bo registration jalo, go ka tlhodumelwa ka fa society di dirwang ka teng.

Kana gone golo mo, go re buseditse kwa morago thata re le lefatshe.

Mo re ntseng re go bua letsatsi le letsatsi gore golo mo lefatsheng la Botswana; batho ba bangwe ba na le tsamaiso ya bone, ba bangwe ba na le tsamaiso ya bone.
Mongwe 9 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) le mongwe o na le tsamaiso ya go tlhodumelwa ya gore molao o ka mo tsibosetsa gore o tshwanetse go dira eng o se ka wa dira eng, fa ba bangwe mo lefatsheng le ba sa kgongwe.

E le batho ba e leng gore tse ba di dirang ga di tlhodumelwe, go sa kgatlhalesege gore di siame kana ga di a siama.
Ke principle e e kgethololang ya gore batho ba bangwe ba bo ba le exempted mo molaong, ba bangwe gotwe ba tlhodumelwe.

Mo go raya gore bone ba ba exempted ba, ke bone ba re iphitlhelang bo FATF ba re tlhodumetse, ba re bolelela gore ga re dire dilo sentle ka gore bone ba ba exempted ba, ke bone ba tshenyetso-setšhaba yotlhe, bo money laundering bo eng, Sekgoa sotlhe sa tshenyo, se ba kgobokanetseng.

Ke tsone dilo tse re ntseng re di bua.


Jaaka o bona fela le fa re dira melao, principle eo e santse e le teng e le ntsi.

Ga re itse gore a re ntse re emetse gore FATF e tle gape e re reye e re nnyaa, declaration of assets and abilities e le e dirileng ele ke setshosa fela, ga se yone jaaka re tshwanelwa ke go e dira.
Ka fa re dirang dilo ka teng in piece meal, go supa gore tota ga re ise re nne le tumelo ya gore re tshwanelwa ke go dira dilo, re di direle mo pontsheng, mongwe le mongwe a bona gore yo o dirang eng, yo ga a dire eng.

Re santse re dira dilo tse dingwe re batla go di ntshetsa mo pontsheng fa re bolelelwa ke makgotla a ditšhabatšhaba, tse dingwe re di fitlha fela ka gore ga ba ise ba re bolelele.
Re bua re le mo lefatsheng, fela ka gore mme gatwe re busa re le nosi ga le ka ke la re gakolola, ga re a pataganela Puso.

Ke jone bothata jo re nang le jone mo lefatsheng le.

Mr Speaker, motho o ka re kana Bill e, rightly so, e ganeletse mo tshenyetsong-setšhaba; mo go fitlheng kana mo go tlhatsweng madi, e ganeletse mo tshenyetsong-setšhaba e e tsamaelanang thata le madi kana le itsholelo (economic crimes).
Go botlhokwa thata Tona gore fa re sena go nna le feta ka Bill e, o tle ka Bill e e tlaa ganelelang mo a number of immorality acts tse di diragalang mo societies thatathata di dirwa ke baeteledipele.

Fa re lebelela kwa societies tse dingwe, thatathata tsa sekereke, incest, defilement, sexual abuse e ntsi golo koo.

Go botlhokwa thata gore fa re fetsa ka e, o tle ka Bill e e tileng to address dilo tseo.
Re a leletswa kgapetsakgapetsa ke bomme a re mogolwane o nitirile jaana, ke kopa thuso, mapodise ba a mo tshaba.

Fa o re o botsa mapodise ba re, mme kana fa o lebile melao ya rona e, ga go na sepe se re ka bo charge ka sone ka go diragetse ka fa bone ba neng ba ntse ba tsweletse ba dira ka teng.

Fa re ka nna le go tlhodumela, re bone gore re ka sireletsa batho jang, go ka siama.
Morago ga Bill e Tona, go botlhokwa thata gore o tle ka dilo tse di ka lekang go sireletsa batho ba ba tsenelelang mekgatho e, maloko a mekgatho e, kwa ntle ga go lebelela itsholelo fela.
Mr Speaker, motho fa a lebile Clause 7, le fa Tona a re o ya go tla ka Tshutiso ya go ntsha fale le fale, a ntsha sepolotiki mo teng a ya go dira Bill e ntšha e e tlaa lebaganang le sepolotiki, mme tse dingwe tse di setseng mo teng, to a certain extent they are unconstitutional because fa o re o ya go tlhophela societies gore baeteledipele ba bone ke bomang, gone moo fela ka bogone thatathata o lebile mafoko a a tshwanang le bo go reng motho fa a kile a tsena kgolegelo, a senya kana a atlholwa mo dingwageng tse 10 tse di fetileng, ga a tshwanela go ka etelela society, what are we saying ka gore gone kwa dikgolegelong, re leka go dira mo gotweng rehabilitation, go fetola batho maikutlo.
Ra re fa ba tswa kwa ba tle ba kgone go tsenya letsogo mo go tsamaiseng lefatshe, ba betle itsholelo ya lefatshe.

Jaanong fa e le gore ra rialo ka kwa bo prisons, fa re pota ka fa re tla gape re re batho bao ga ba a tshwanela gore ba ka nna baeteledipele ba ka reng, ga ke dumele gore Molaomotheo jaaka re ya go o dira, le fa o ntse jaaka o ntse gompieno, fa motho a ka itsheka fela sentle o ka tlhoka go fenya jang.
E lebelele Tona clause eo, kana ke mokang o fang John ka letsogo la moja, o bo o boa o tsaya ka letsogo la molema.

Re bua ka fa ra re a batho ba dire jaana, ka fa ra re a ba se ka ba dira jaana, mme re bua selo se le sengwefela mo mothong a le mongwefela.

A re ageng batho, re se ka ra ba kgetholola go ya go ileng.

Dikotlhao tse dingwe, diphoso tse dingwe, phoso e tona mme diphoso tse dingwe ke tse motho a ikagang, motho ka boene fela ke motho yo o tshelang le phoso le go baakanya.
Clause 7 Tona, ke dumela gore is unfair to the societies.

Re lebile gore jaaka re le mo screen Batswana ba re lebile jaana, re melato, re na le dikgang fa tse di kwa Makgotlatshekelo le kwa Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC) tse di kwa kae, mme rona re bona go siame fela gore re ka nna mo Khuduthamageng, re ka nna Mapalamente re ntse re na le dikgang tse di tse di ntseng jalo tse di tshwerweng fela ke gore re fa, fa re re ne re se fa re ka bo gongwe re disitse poo kwa.
So ga re direle batho ba bangwe sentle, go lebega o kare jaanong melao ke ya for the powerful, the rich, batho ba ba sa kgoneng gore ba ka ipuelela ba le fa bone re ba baya ka fa mosing.

10 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Re tla re re re a utlwa ka registration Tona, gore fa society e golanngwa le se le se, bakaulengwe ba e buile ka bophara.
Re tla gape re re tlhodumela, lebelela ka gore societies tse dingwe, go ikopela go kwadisa societies mo gongwe ga go kganelwe fela ntata tshenyetso- setšhaba kana eng, mo gongwe go kganetswe fela ka ntata ya political sympathy or political affiliation le fa motho a se active.

Mo gongwe go kganetswe fela ka gore go tsewa gore society fa e ka nna teng, e tlaa ruta batho ditshwanelo tsa bone, mo e leng gore ba tlaa leba mananeo le ditshwetso tsa Puso ka tsela e e tshwanetseng gore motho a di lebe ka yone.
It will empower and capacitate their communities to have analytical tools tsa gore ba ka itseela ditshwetso, tse ba tshwanetseng gore ba ka di itseela mo Botswana kana mo lefatsheng.

Re lebile society e tshwana le ya bo Seembo kwa Mababe, ya bo Rre Polelo Tebalo, ba na le lebaka ba lwantsha gore kwadise society, mme e a pala, ba bewa ka fa, ba pota ka fa.
Ga ke itse gore kana ke gore ke Basarwa kana jang, society ya bone e a pala, mme ga ba na le fa e le dipe tsa bo ditlhobolo le go utswa, ke fela gore ba batla go kgothatsa Basarwa gore ba itse ditshwanelo tsa bone.

Jaanong tlhodumela Tona, e se ka ya nna dikgang tsa tshenyetso-setšhaba fela tse re felelang re ipata ka tsone re sa kwadise societies tsa batho.

Tona kgang e ya 150 for dikereke le 20, bakaulengwe ba e buile, jaanong e batla gore o tle o e tlhalose Tona gore naare wareng.
A wa re from now onwards, kereke e tshwanelwa ke gore e bo e na le maloko a 150 go ya kwa godimo, fa e le ka fa tlase ga 150 ga e kwadisiwe, kana wa re o tlaabo o kwadisa fela, kana molao o o tlaa laola dikereke tse di nang le batho ba le 150 go kwa godimo, tse di nang le batho ba le 149 go ya kwa tlase molao o o tlaabo o sa ba ame.
Fa o re kereke jaanong e tshwanetse gore e nne 150 go ya kwa godimo, o bua ka mainstream churches, o bua ka bo United Congregational Church in Southern Africa (UCCSA), Roma, bo fire kana dikereke tse di tsileng tsa sesha tse di neng di goroga mo malobeng, o bua ka bo Zion Christian Church (ZCC), Spiritual le tse dingwe.
Bontsi jwa African oriented churches, tsa rona mo gae palo ya tsone e ka fa tlase ga 150, o ya go fitlhela e le dikereke tse e leng gore le fa ba le 50 jalo, ba na le tumelo, ke kereke fela e powerful e e tsamayang sentle.

Jaanong e tlhalose golo fa gore naare wa reng Tona ka molao o, ka palo e ya kereke.

Fa e le gore o bona gore nnyaa ga o a dira gone, baakanya dipalo, ka gore... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Ke ka tsaya elucidation Mr Speaker?

MR RAMOGAPI: Point of elucidation.


Ga o bone fa e le botimokanyi Honourable Kekgonegile gore maloba fa re le mo COVID-19 jaana Tona yo o lebanyeng le ba botsogo ba ne ba beile dipalo tsa kereke gore ba se ka ba bo ba feta 50, 50 e le yone palo, mme dikole tsone ba kgona go tsena fela ba le bo 1000 mo primary, kwa bareng batho ba kgona go tsena fela go sena palo, mme kereke yone fela e beetswe 50.

Jaanong letsatsi jeno ba menogile gape, ba re kereke ke kereke fela fa e le gore ke 150 go ya kwa godimo.
Ga o bone fa e le boitimokanyi motlotlegi?

MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki Honourable Ramogapi.

Go ntse jalo ke boitimokanyi jo bo ngomolang pelo, ke tlhakakatlhakanyo ya dikakanyo e tota jaanong e tsayang lefatshe e le isa kwa pele, e tsaya lefatshe e le busetsa kwa morago.

Batho ba setse ba tidikana ditlhaloganyo fela o kare leleme la tloloko, ga ba kgone go tlhaloganya gore naare Puso e ya reng ga e reng.
Ke sone se ke dumelang ba ba reng Reset Agenda e tlhokafalang mo lefatsheng le, ke go ntsha Domkrag mo Pusong.

Fa re tswelela Mr Speaker... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarity.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Go na le wa clarity, ke ka mo fa.

MR SPEAKER: Clarify.

MR MOTAOSANE: Point of clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker, o tlaa intshwarela gore ke se on camera, network ga e a nna sentle ka kwano.

Honourable Kekgonegile, ke utlwa o araba kakgelo e ya ga Ramogapi e, e ke bonang e leka go tsietsa Batswana.
E Ramogapi a itseng fela go tlhamaletse gore kgang e go buiwang ka yone on the floor ke gore, for you to register a church.

Ka nako ya lockdown go ne gotwe palo e e ka tsenang ke 50, not gore kereke e bo maloko a yone a le 50 kana below.

You gave a good example ka bo UCCSA, my local church e na le more than 800 people, but go ne gotwe go ka tsena batho ba le 50 at a time.
It is different from what is being said in the Bill right now, jaanong a a lese go timetsa Batswana Ramogapi, a a nte batho ba itlhaloganyetse se se buiwang ke Bill.

Jaanong le wena a o a rialo, a o dumalana le ene gore se a se buang se, ke sone se se leng on the Bill.

Thank you Honourable Kekgonegile, and be honest my brother.

11 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki Honourable Motaosane.
Ke na le keletso ya gore ke ka e tsweledisa, mme mma ke e tlogelele bakaulengwe ba tlaa e tsweledisa, ka gore ke na le dintlhanyana tse pedi tse tharo tse ke eletsang gore ke di akaretse, nako e tsamaile.

Ke dumela gore bakaulengwe ba go utlwile ba tlaa tla ba tsena mo go yone.

Fa re tsena kwa Section 13:4 le 10:3 di bua ka fine, fine e, kwa 10:4 le 10:3 ya re fa society e dirile phoso, go ya go atlholwa baeteledipele ba society e ka bongwe ka bongwe.
Gone moo fela Tona, ga ke itse gore maikaelelo a gone ke eng, a mme principle ya lona mo lefatsheng fa re tla kwa dikgwebong, a fa kgwebo e dirile phoso le gone go atlholwa Directors tsa kgwebo ka bongwe ka bongwe kana jang, kana re lebile fela ka gore mo society ke batho ba Modimo, ke eng go sa atlholwe society fela kana botoka go lebaganwe le Director yo gongwe o ka tswang a dirile phoso eo, ka gore diphoso tse dingwe they are not collective, di dirwa ke motho a le nosi ba bangwe ba sa itse.
E batla gore o e lebelele in such a way that, it will protect other directors from gongwe go sa dira sentle ga director yo mongwe.

Fa go lebaganwe le society ka bo yone then go siame, kana go nna le sanction e e ka nnang mogoga moleele in that particular director who took the decision.

E nngwe ke ya Section 14.2 ya P50,000 fine kana six years.

Fa o lebelela Bill e re neng re tswa mo go yone maloba e ne e bua ka gore motho o ka atlholwa P100,000 kana o ka ya dingwaga tse tharo kwa toronkong.
P100,000 le dingwaga tse tharo kwa toronkong, yo ke P50,000 ke madi a a kwa tlase, but ene katlholo ya dingwaga tsa gagwe kwa toronkong ke six years.

Dilo tse ga di nyalane.

Re dumela gore madi fa a ya kwa godimo go raya gore o a bo o dirile phoso e tona thata.

Jaanong madi ga a ka ke a ya kwa godimo, dingwaga di bo di ya kwa tlase and then fa madi a le kwa tlase, dingwaga di bo di ya kwa godimo.
Ga ke itse gore a ka fa semolaong dilo tse di tsamaelana jalo, di farologana ka fa botshelo bo tshwanetseng gore bo bo bo ntse ka teng, le ditsholofelo tsa gore motho o a bo a ntse jang kana o a bo a tshela botshelo jang.

Fa re ya kwa Section 22 Mr Speaker, e le ya bofelo, e e buang ka Advisory and Arbitration Council, motho fa a lebile maloko a council e o kare yes, here at least go na le element of self-regulation, given gore maloko a council e ba tlaabo ba tswa mo societies tse di farologaneng.
Mo go rayang gore ba itse botshelo jo ba bo tshelang and a solution must emanate from the challenges or from the people who face the challenges, go na le mo re ntseng re go dira mo re a go tsaya batho ba ba leng kgakala le se se diragalang re tla re ba raya re re le tsamaisa council e. Gone fa go ka tlhokafala thata gore council e e nne le law enforcement mo teng as a member, gore Botswana Police Services gongwe e nne part of this council ka gore dikgang tse ka bontsi di wela kwa go bone, ba ka tla ba nna ba ntse ba gakolola sentle gore, mme kana kwa council dikgang tse re di bonang ke tse le tse.
Gongwe tsamaiso e ka tlhokafala gore re e fetole fa le fa.

Re sa leba thata gore batho ba tshwanelwa ke gore ba nne ba ntse ba tseelwa dikgato thata.

Re lebile gore guidance and rehabilitation is a must mo botshelong and it is the first thing se re tshwanelwang ke go se dira pele fa re ya go tsaya dikgato.

Go tsaya dikgato must be the last resort mo dikgannyeng tse di kalo.

Tanki Mr Speaker, ke lebogile.


MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Le nna ke latlhele ka bokhutshwane fela ke leke go boloka nako mo go se re se beilweng fa pele ke Honourable Annah Mokgethi.

Mr Speaker, ke supe fa gore kana e a tlhalosa Bill e re e tshotseng e gore maikaelelo ke gone jalo go leka go baakanya mo go se re ntseng re na le sone.
Mme paakanyo e e itebagantse thata le go ema nokeng kopo ya ga Mme Mma Serame, e le Tona wa Madi.

Kopo e e tswang mo go reng, re tshwanetse re sireletse lefatshe la Botswana, gore le tshwanetse le tswelele le supe gore ke lengwe la mafatshe a a obamelang ditsamaiso tse di dumalanweng.

Tse re ikaeletseng gore re tle re kgone gore ditsamaiso tseo re di sale morago.
Re lebile kgang e ya gore, kana re a bona mo malatsing a gompieno gore dilo ga di sa tlhole di ntse sentle; dirukutlhi di dira borukutlhi ka ditsela tse di farologaneng.

Malatsi a go na le sophistication fela e e kwa godimo e e dirwang e le dikgang tsa borukutlhi, bangwe ba rekisa ditagi Mr Speaker.

Bangwe are involved mo dikgannyeng tsa bo human trafficking, mme ba bangwe ba dira tse dingwe fela tse e leng gore tota kana maikaelelo e a bo e le gore ba bone gore ba ka dira jang gore ba kgone go dira madi.
Madi a fa ba sena go a dira ka dilo tse di bosula tse, ba felela ba batla ditsela tsa gore, mme madi a gore jaanong ba a dire o kare ke madi a a amogelesegang, a ba a dirileng ka tsela e e sa siamang, ba tshwanetse ba dire ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ba a tlhatswa ka eng jalo le jalo.

Go lebilwe mekgatlho e go setseng go boletswe gompieno.

Honourable Dr Letsholathebe o dirile tiro 12 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) e ntle thata ene le Honourable Molebatsi, ba buile ka dikgang tsa clubs tse re ka buang ka tsone.

Ba buile ka kgwele ya dinao thata, ba buile ka political parties kgantele.
Ba ganeletse thata mo go reng, kana mme fa o lebelela mekgatlho e, o lebile mekgatlho ya bo kgwele ya dinao le dikereke jalo le jalo, dirukutlhi malatsing a… kana ba ba a bong ba tshotse madi a a bonweng ka ditsela tse e seng tsone ba felela ba dirisa mekgatlho e gore ba tlhatswe madi a. Mr Speaker, ke re fa o bua ka kgwele ya dinao, FATF e re buang ka yone e ba na le report e ba neng ba e ntsha, which is titled, “Money laundering through the football sector.” Report e ke ya ngwaga wa 2009.
Mo go yone go tlhalosiwa dilo di le dintsi thata, ka fa bangwe ba dirisang kgwele ya dinao le sports clubs gore ba kgone go tlhatswa madi a ba a boneng ka tsela e e sa tlhamalalang, mme e le gore go na le dikai.

Ba supa ditlhopha tseo gore, mme gone ba dirile ka tsela e e ntseng jang bao, ba e leng gore ke bone the owners ba ditlhopha tsa go nna jalo.

Ba dirile jang, madi a gorogile jang mo clubs tseo, mme a feta a dira eng, a aga facilities.
Mme e a re jaanong fa go setse go salwa morago (trace) go bo go fitlhelwa e le gore madi a mme pele fa a aga dikago tse, ka fa a gorogileng ka teng mo clubs tse ga a goroga sentle.

Ke re tsone tse Mr Speaker, go raya gore kana this should be a wakeup call mo go rona, ka gore this report e ne e bua gongwe e ganeletse mo ditlhopheng tsa Europe.

E bua gape le ka continents tse dingwe le Aferika e le mo teng.

Kana we are part of this continent ya Aferika Mr Speaker.
Re tshwanetse le gore re ikatege, re kgone go ipaakanyetsa ruri, re ipaakanyetse diemo tse di ka felelang di tlhagoga, gongwe di ama ditlhopha tsa rona, jaaka batlotlegi ba ne ba ntse ba bua, Honourable Molebatsi a tlhalosa fa gore e kile a bo e le Modulasetilo wa setlhopha sa Notwane Football Club, se ke goletseng kwa go sone.

Se nkgodisitse gore ke bo ke le monna ke le kana ke tlhaloganya kgwele ya dinao, ke setlhopha sa Notwane Football Club, sa setšhaba.
A supa …(inaudible)…ka tsela yone e e sa nnang sentle.

Jaanong fa o lebile Mr Speaker, Batswana re batho ba re itshotlegelang.

Dikereke tsa rona ga di nang, ga di nang, mme ke sone se tota o fitlhelang e le gore ba kopa fale le fale, ba leka gore go nne go dirwa dikoleke, gore kereke e kgone go rulaganngwa sentle, dikago di nne sentle.

Kereke e kgone go nna le fa e leng gore maloko a kereke fa ba tsene, kereke e tsene, ba tshwanetse gore ba nne sentle.
Dikereke tsa rona o fithela e le gore di tlhoka le tsone ditilo tota tse e leng gore ga di turu mo go kalokalo.

Tsone dilo tse Mr Speaker, kamoso di ka felela di dira gore fa mongwe a ka tla and dangle a carrot mo matlhong le mo melomong ya bone ba ba a bong ba sa tlhaloganye e le batho ba Modimo kana barongwa ba Modimo, e bo e le gore ba ka felela ba raelesega ka ntata ya letlhoko le, gore ba ka felela ba tsaya mo go bone batho ba.
Ba sa itse, ba sena kitso ya gore mme gone se re se amogelang, se rona re ipolelelang gore ke thuso fela e motho a tlang a tla sentle, mme e le gore thuso e e tla e patilwe ke borukutlhi mo go yone.

Mr Speaker, re itse sentle gore kgang e e ama le diphathi tsa sepolotiki, jaaka re ntse re tlhalosa.
Ke batla gore pele fa ke ya koo ke supe jaana, Mme Mma Serame o tlhalositse a a fa background ya kgang e, gore FATF le ESAAMLG kana ba supile dingongorego, mme ka 2018 re ne ra bona FATF e tsenya Botswana ka fa tlase ga grey list.
Gone golo mo Mr Speaker, lebelela our efforts tsa gore go bo go tlhongwa bo Botswana Investment Trade Centre (BITC) le gore go bo go nna le bo SPEDU, e le maiteko le maikaelelo a Puso gore ka makalana a, lefatshe la Botswana le kgone go ngoka babeeletsi gore ba tle mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Ba tle go beeletsa gore re kgone to create mebereko, gore bana ba rona ba bereke ba e leng gore letlhoko la bone ga le kana ka sepe fa re lebile dikgang tsa tshotlego le go tlhoka mebereko.
Jaanong ga o ka ke wa kgona go ngoka babeeletsi fa e le gore lefatshe le tsentswe under grey list e le lefatshe la Botswana.

Ke sone se e leng gore e ne ya re gone ka 2018 ka October Tautona le Puso ya gagwe ba dira a political commitment gore jaanong re tlile go dira bojotlhe gore re tswe ka fa tlase ga grey list e go buiwang ka yone.
Bona gore jaanong go diragala jang morago ga dingwaga di le pedi; 2021 October, FATF jaanong fa ba sena go kopana ba lebile maiteko a lefatshe la Botswana ba re, mme lefatshe le jaanong administration e ntšha e go a lebega, go tlhamaletse gore ba dira bojotlhe gore ba ntshe lefatshe mo grey list.
Ke sone se e leng gore gompieno Mr Speaker, re fano re tsweletse re le Puso ya lefatshe la Botswana ya Domkrag gore re batla go bona lefatshe la Botswana le dule gotlhelele mo dikgannyeng tse ka gore re batla go tswelela re ngoka babeeletsi.

Re batla gore babeeletsi ba nne le confidence mo lefatsheng la rona le mo ditsamaisong tsa lefatshe la rona, especially re lebile dikgang tsa madi.
Ke sone se e leng gore Mme Mokgethi o tla gone fa fela jaaka ba bangwe ba ntse ba dira ba patile Mme Serame gore kgang e kgone go wela.

Mr Speaker, ke batla go feleletsa ka gore, mme e bile yone e ya diphathi tsa sepolotiki re tshwanetse tota re e lebelele.

Goromente wa Botswana ga a tshwanela gore a nne shy gore batho ba tlaa mobilise batho kwa 13 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) ntle ba ba ntseng ba ila Puso, they would be mobilised by mapolotiki a kganetso gore batho ba ba tswelele ba tsamaisa dikgang tse di senang boammaaruri ka Puso ya gompieno fela ka gore go na le kilo e e tseneletseng.

Kilo yone e e tseneletseng e e tswang mo diphathing tsa kganetso di ikopantse ke ya gore ga gona ope wa diphathi tse ba ba batlang go bona Domkrag e succeed mo go buseng jaaka re ntse re tsweletse.
Ga ba batle go bona Tautona le Mothusi wa gagwe le Goromente wa letsatsi re kgona mo maikaelelong a rona a go fetola lefatshe le, Batswana ba tswe mo lehumeng le ba leng mo go lone.
Ke sone se o bonang gompieno e le gore fa Rre Mmusi a tla gone fa ka Molao-kakanyetso o o emang dikgang tsa ga Mme Serame nokeng, o itebagantse le dirukutlhi, batho ba felela jaanong ba ya kwa ntle ba ya go raya batho ba re ‘Batswana, itseng gore molao o e tla, your phones would be tapped, go reediwa fa le bua le ba masika le ditsala.’ Kgang e ba itse gore ga se boammaaruri, ga se maikaelelo a Puso.

Ba itse fela sentle jaanong ba leka bojotlhe gore ba fapose Batswana mo go se se gone fa.
Motho o ka gakgamala gore mme fa e le bone ba tshwanetseng go ka bo ba thusa gore molaetsa o tsamae, kgang e ya borukutlhi re e lwantshe mmogo, lefatshe la Botswana kamoso re le bone le le phepa, jaanong a mme ke bone ba e leng gore ba ka tla gone fa ba bo ba bua dikgang tse di ntseng jaana?
Go ka gakgamatsa mme go ka se ke go gakgamatse ka gore ke setse ke kile ka supa mo Palamenteng e makgetho a le mantsi gore tse re neng re di bona di diragala ka campaign ya 2019, sone se ba se dirang se ke tswelediso ya sone seo.

Fa re ne re bona e le gore batho ba a goroga mo lefatsheng la ga rona, ga re ba itse, ga go itsiwe identity ya bone, ba ikamanya le phathi ya kganetso.

Batho bone ba e le gore jaanong go na le tse di tlang e le dithuso.
Basekaseki, babegadikgang ba kwala gore ga o ka ke wa itse le gone gore dithuso… LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR SALESHANDO): Point of order.

Mr Speaker, re bua ka Bill ya Societies, the speaker on the floor o setse gone jaana a re o batla go bua ka ya ga Rre Mmusi e e buang ka gore bangwe ba re phones are tapped, go a reng, which is not the Bill before the House.

Jaanong o mo campaign ya 2019 ka bangwe ba ba boneng madi go sa itsiwe gore a tswa kwa go bomang, it is not related to the current Bill.
Ke ne ke kopa gore o mo gakolole Tona Rakgari gore fa go feditswe go a twe ‘ke ema gone foo,’ ga o tlhabe leinane jaanong o tshwara kwa le kwa.

It would be inappropriate, ke fa kae mo Act mo gotweng go itebaganngwa le those who sponsor political parties?

Le fa o re bangwe o ne o sa ba itse, a wena o itse those who sponsor Domkrag?
MR SPEAKER: I thought what the Honourable Minister was saying Honourable Saleshando was that jaaka ba ne ba bua, go na le gore batho ba ba nang le madi le maikaelelo a mangwe a sele ba dirise ope yo ba mo fitlhelang mo lefatsheng, a o kereke kana political party, ba lebile gore e tlaare morago ba robe sengwenyana.

If in fact, that was not his point, then obviously o tswa mo tseleng.

Honourable Rakgare, gakere o utlwa ngongorego?


MR RAKGARE: Ke a utlwa Mr Speaker mme ke ne ke re gongwe ke tshedile le Rre Saleshando ka lebaka, sefane sa me ke Rakgare, e seng Rakgari, re simolole fela gone foo ka o ne a re … MR SALESHANDO: My apologies.

MR RAKGARE: Ke re ke mmaakanyetse foo pele gore ke Rakgare.
Mr Speaker, ke ne ke supa gore Bills tse di fa pele ga rona tse bontsi jwa tsone are consequential Bills tse maikaelelo e leng to support Financial Intelligence Bill e Mme Serame a tlang ka yone.

Jaanong ke ne ke leka go supa gore kana golo fa re bua ka melawana e re e baakanyang re e tlhoma.

Re e tlhomela gore e ye go hema seemo se re ka iphitlhelang re tsene mo go sone re le grey-listed re le lefatshe mme e le ka ntata ya gore there is money laundering mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Ke ne ke e fa dikai tse di tshelang Mr Speaker, that is all I was saying, ga ke itse gore gatwe ga ke mo Societies Bill ka tsela e e ntseng jang?

Ke ne ke e fa dikai ke bua tse di ntseng di le mo tafoleng ya rona.

Ke batla go digela fela ka tsela e e ntseng jalo gore a rotlhe ba re mo Ntlong e re lebelele lefatshe la Botswana pele.

Re le beye kwa pele re tlogele ka diphathi tsa sepolotiki gore wena o wa mmala o fe.
Re beye lefatshe la Botswana kwa pele e re kamoso botlhe ba re ba emetseng jaaka re tswa kwa dikgaolong tsa rona Mr Speaker e bo e le gore re bona lefatshe la rona jaanong le kgona go ngoka babeeletsi ba ba nang le confidence mo go lone.

Ba itse gore madi a bone a babalesegile mme e bile gape integrity and reputation ya bone is protected.

Fa e le gore re tlile go lebega o kare bangwe ba rona jaanong re rotloetsa tse di sa nnang sentle, ga go ka ke ga nna sentle Mr Speaker.
Ke ne ke re ka mafoko a a ntseng jalo, ke ema Molao-kakanyetso o nokeng fela ka fa o ntseng ka teng le ntswa Mme Mokgethi a bua gore o ya go tla ka amendments.

Ke o ema nokeng, ke dumela gore re tlaa kgona go digela Mr Speaker re tsene mo go tse dingwe.

Ke a leboga.

14 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR MAJAGA (NATA-GWETA): Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker, ke go dumedise ke dumedise le Batlotlegi Mapalamente.
I would not be long on this Bill, segolo jang Tona a tlhalositse gore Section 6 and 7 ba tlaa bona gore go tlaa dirwa some amendments.

Ke tsone tse e neng e kete di tshwenya batho ka bontsi le nna ke le mo teng.

Ke ema to support this Bill.

Ke Molao- kakanyetso o montle thata gore o bo o dirwa mo dinakong tse.
Ke re kana tota melao e yotlhe fa o ka e lebelela ke go lomaganya, segolo jang matshwenyego a e leng gore tota a gwetlhiwa ke melao e e tlang ka Mme Serame, Minister of Finance e e tsamaelanang le money laundering.

Tota ke go gobokanya gore go se ka ga tswa phatlha epe e e kareng fa melao e yotlhe e le mo tirisong ra bona diemo tsa money laundering le tse dingwe jalojalo di diragala ka bokete jaaka re ne re bona di diragala mo lefatsheng le.
Re a rialo ka gore o bona some world ratings, ke tsone di go supegetsang gore tota go ntse go na le a serious challenge.

Le maloba fa re nna grey listed o ne o bona gore there is something that as the National Assembly of Botswana kana re le baeteledipele, we must do something urgently.

Ke tshwanetse go leboga seo gore the Minister has acted urgently to address this through coming up with amendments and these Bills.
This Societies Bill is very important like other Members ba ba buileng pale ga me ba buile ka mabaka a gore re a bona malatsinyana gore we lose a lot of money in taxes mo e leng gore people even companies ba ba nang le mangwe maikaelelo a go tshaba go duela taxes tse di tsamaisang lefatshe, ba register these societies and other things like trusts jaaka re itse gore ya trust le yone, Trust Property Control Bill le yone is one of those tse e leng gore di etla.
Fa ba sena go dira jalo, ba a bo ba tshaba taxes, mo e leng gore fa o tsaya tax fela ka bontsi, ke tsone tse e leng gore, I think it is the first, ke tsone tsa letseno la ntlha la go tlisa madi.
Such things ka bogone fela, it is very important gore Tona a bo a bone go tshwanetse gore a baakanye molao o o amanang le lephata la gagwe mme re e gokaganya le melao-kakanyetso e e sa nkeng e tla ka nako, e e thusang lefatshe go ya pele, re sena mangwe matshosetsi a these terrorist organisations tse di ipatlang kana tse di iphetsolang jaana bolwetse jo ja COVID-19.
Kana these terrorist organisations ba iphetsola fela ka go dirisa tsone trusts, societies, ba bo ba nna ba build up like we have seen as an example kwa Mozambique, o ipotsa gore lekgotla fela le ka nna le madi a a kanakana, a e leng gore mafatshe a ka ya go le kgobokanela lebaka le le kana mme ba nna le resistance.

So mo o bonang gore power tota yone in short fela ke madi.

Le ba e leng gore ba a bo ba filwe dithata tseo ke molao.

Those are just two things.


Jaanong fa o bona lekgotla le ntse jaana, le sa tlhophiwa ka molao, le sena President, le sena eng, le sena madi ka nngwe tsela e e leng gore le dira itsholelo, jaaka makgotla one a re a itseng jaaka ke ne ke e fa sekai ka ditsoulodi tsa kwa Mozambique, o a bo o bona gore sengwe se teng se se supang gore ba a bo ba tlaa na le mashetla one ao.
To dismantle such terrorist organisations, le yone terrorism e e leng gore re e bona e tla ka metlhale ya botlhale kana ya matlhale a a tseneletseng, ke gore re tle re le lefatshe, rona re tlhape diatla and guide our nation ka go dira such laws.
Maabane ke letse ke bua ke re melao e e tsile ka nako e e siameng ka gore fa e tlile ka ngwaga one o, we are going to debate them re e fetisa go na le nako, Tautona a e saena, unlike e ka tla ka 2023/2024, mo e leng gore such an important Bill e bo e ya go tlhoka batho mo Palamenteng.

Ke letse ke bua jalo.

Ba buile ka dibolo, metshelo, ke yone e e tletseng kwa magaeng.
Fa o tsena mo bo Gweta, Nata, mme malatsinyana a these burial societies, mo dikgaolong tsa me o fitlhela le bone ba gotweng ke bone beng ba tsone, fa gotwe go a amogelwa fela mo o bonang gore madi ke mathata, ba a bo ba le foo.

Fa gotwe Ipelegeng e a amogela, ba a bo ba le foo.

Gotwe ke bone bangwe ba di societies.

Jaanong ke re go tlaa re go nne le thuto.

Tota dedicated offices tse di tshwanang tsa bo molaodi mo metseng ya magae, le bone ba nne ba ntse ba re ...(inaudible)… mo matshelong a batho.
Ba fete ka tsone gore Batswana ba itse because it is going to take time o itse the few mme bone ba sa itse gore tshireletsego ya bone ke eng.

Fa go nnang le madi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke a tle ke bone go le mo Kgotleng, fa gotwe koloi ya Tandabala e etla kana go na le bangwe ba ba amogelang, batho ba kgona go re siya foo o bona gore dipelo tsa bone di kwa mading.
So o a bona gore ga se ka nako ele ya Majuta kwa Dibaebeleng le bo Jesu; ba ba itseng Baebele, rona re ka itse di sele e seng tsone tseo tsa bo Letsholathebe.

O a bona fela gore nnyaa madi a powerful go le kana kang.

Dibolo le tse dingwe fela jalojalo, tse e leng gore ke mekgatlho e e rileng, re a tle re bone batho ba sponsor fela for the Christmas football, madi a mantsi fela le wena o bona gore ... gompieno ba simolotse.
Mo dikgaolong tse di tshwanang le tsa rona, ba tlisa madi a mantsi le a campaigns, kana tsone ga di nke di ema, mme o bo o bona gore ah, le fa gotwe go sponsored football fa, bothata ke jo.

Jaanong ke dilo tse re di itseng.

15 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Jaanong such Bills di tlaa thusa, mme ke se ka ka ya kgakala jaaka ke buile gore sections tsele, tse dingwe di builwe ke Batlotlegi, it will be like repeating one and the same thing, mme molao one o tlhamaletse, e bile bangwe ba o bua.
I rest my case gone fa Modulasetilo ke re, se se tona ke Thuto, le rona re le mo teng, all leadership gore re rute tsone societies tse re di bonang kwa bo Manxotai, Tsokatshaa, Zoroga le kwa Sepako, gore tota le bone ba itse, ba se ka ba itse metsi fela le tse dingwe.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mma ke tseye sebaka se ke supe gone gore ke dumalana le Bill e e sa tswang go bewa fa pele ga rona.
Se e leng gore gongwe ga ke dumalane le sone, gongwe ke se gatelele, ke kgang ya registration ya dikereke jaaka Rre Ramogapi a ne a tlhalosa.

Gore eo kgang tota ga re dumalane le yone ka gore fa o lebelela jaaka fa a ne a a fa sekai sa gore during the COVID-19 go ne go kgaolwa batho gotwe ba tsene ba le bo 50, go ne go supa gore 50 yoo o lekane ke kereke e ka kereka.

50 yoo o ne a supa gore ke batho ke ba ba ka tsena ba rera lefoko la Modimo.

Ke sekai sa gore ba ka rapela ba le kalo.


Jaanong re ba itsetsang gore e re ba le 50 ba bo ba ka register ya nna kereka, ka gore re tswa go bona sentle ka nako ya COVID-19 gore nnyaa, mme batho ba ba ka kgobokana ba le kana.

Ke eng jaanong mo registration re bo re batla gore jaanong e bo e le gore ba 150?

Go na le metsana mo dikgaolong tsa rona e le gore ke metse e e leng gore ga e metona.

Ke metse e menyennyane, kwa settlements jaaka Mma Monnakgotla a etle a bue.
O tlaa fitlhela e le gore fa gongwe ke batho ba ikgobokantse ba ka tshwara bo 70 gongwe go ya ko go 100.

A ra re batho ba go nna jalo ga ba a tshwanela gore le bone fa ba na le keletso ya gore ba nne le kereke, ba se ka ba dira jalo?

Kana re ne re dira molao o fela re lebile mo ditoropong, kwa re itseng gore go na le batho ba bantsi teng?

Ke nngwe ya dikgang tse e leng gore re tshwanetse ra e lebelela ka tsela e e ntseng jalo ka gore re na le metsana e e leng teng.
A batho ba ba leng kwa dikgaolong tsa rona kwa metsaneng yone eo, a ba rontshiwe go kgobokana e nne kereke ba e kwadise, e tlaa re fa motse o ntse o gola dipalo tsa bone tsone di pagame di ye go wela kwa go bo 150.

Ke na le tumelo e ntsi ya gore palo fela yone ya 50 e siametse gore e ka nna kereke.
Ke ne ke re ke e gatelele ka tsela e e ntseng jalo ka gore e ne e rile fa re tshwantshanya le kgang ya COVID-19, e bo e nna e kete go fiwa examples di sele, mme that is a relevant example ka gore e a bo e rurifatsa gore batho ke ba ba 50 ba kgona gore ba obame.

Ga re batle melao e e leng gore e nna e kete ke melao e e lebileng kwa ditoropong kwa go nang le batho ba le bantsi.

Ke dumela thata gore yone kgang e e lebelelwe.

MR RAMOGAPI: Elucidation.

Ee, ke ne ke re o e tshwere sentle mokaulengwe.


Kgang e e botlhokwa e o tshwanetseng gore o e gatelele gape, kana ke Molao- motheo.

Kana Molao-motheo wa lefatshe la Botswana wa re motho o tshwanelwa ke gore fa a batla, a kopane.

Ke gore re se ka ra mo kganela.

It is not for Parliament to decide the number, ke gore Molaomotheo wa re, motho o na le right to congregate, ke gore fa ba batla gore ba kopane ba itirele, ke ga bone.
E seng gore jaanong re bo re tla re dira molao o o tshwanelang batho go kopana, o o kgatlhanong le Molao-motheo.

O e tshwere sentle mokaulengwe.

Ba gopole dikgaolo tsa bo Rre Kablay, Mma Monnakgotla, Rre Leuwe, tse e leng gore di na le di settlements, ba se ka ba itebelela fela ba le nosi, tsa bo Rre Motsamai.

O e tshwere sentle mokaulengwe.

Ke a leboga.

MR MATHOOTHE: Go ntse jalo.

MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR MOLAO): Ke kopa tlhaloso foo.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke a leboga honourable.


Fa ke ntse ke reeditse the line of debate bogolo jang mo go yone ya registration ya dikereke, ke ne ke re a mme bakaulengwe ba a lemoga gore the law as currently is, since 2016, was amended gore dikereke di register batho ba le 150?

From 2016, it has been existing as such.

Le fa re ntse re debate re bua, a ke selo se re se lemogang?
Ke ne ke raya gore fa re ntse re debate, a mme re a kgona to reflect gore molao o wa gompieno o, it is not gore a new clause is being introduced ya 150.

150 o ntse a le teng from 2016 gore if anything, gongwe re ka bo re bua re re let us now amend the Clause, re sa bue as if go simolodisiwa selo se sesha mme e le se re itseng gore se ntse se le teng since 2016.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MATHOOTHE: Ke tsaya gore re tlhaloganya fela sentle ka gore go na le dipaakanyo tse di dirwang mo molaong.
Se re se buang ke gore dipaakanyo tse fa di dirwa jaana, ba lebetse ntlha e. Gongwe ba e tlisitse kwano e ntse fela jaana ba se ka ba e leba, ke tsaya gore ba ne ba tsaya gore go siame.

Jaanong go mo go rona gore re ntshe mabaka a gore e re re tswa re lebile tse dingwe le tse le di tlisitseng, mme le yone e le se ka la e 16 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) lebala, a re e lebeng bakaulengwe.
Ke yone kgang fela e re e buang, e ke tsayang gore fa re e bua re le fa, ga e a tshwanela go ntsha ope bana ba phefo.

MR KEKGONEGILE: On a point of elucidation.

The fact that palo eo e sale e nna teng ka 2016, mme le gompieno e a pala to be enforced, ga re ise re bone go tsamaiwa mo go tswalwa dikereke tsa bo 50 le 30 lefatshe lotlhe ka bophara since 2016 o sale o nnile teng.
Golo moo ka bogone fela go supa gore molao oo ga o tsamaelane le dikeletso le matshelo a batho, le ka fa dikereke di ntseng ka teng mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Ke sone se ke tlatsang Honourable Mathoothe ke re fa o bona e tsile e ntse jalo gone fa e le molao, ke gore re o baakanye.

E bile re thusa Tona le Batswana mo go o baakanyeng, re o baakanyetsa gore o kgone go diragala, e se ka ya nna just a number e e ka se keng e diragale kana e le tshabang go e diragatsa.

Tanki Honourable Member.


MR MATHOOTHE: Go ntse jalo mokaulengwe.

Re tshwanetse ra lebelela dikgang ka go bona di tsile fa pele ga rona.

Re se ka ra di lebelela ka gore di tsile ka mang wa party efe ka gore kwa bofelong re a bo re batla go thusa Batswana ba re ba emetseng ka diphathi ka go farologana ga rona.

Ke gone mo o bonang ke dumela jalo gore kwa dikgaolong tsa rona metse ga e lekalekane.

Go na le metse e e leng gore palo ya bone e nnyennyane.
Fa gongwe ba ka simolola fale ba le 25 kana ba le 50, e bo e re motse fa o ntse o gola ba bo ba nna le kereke.

O tlaa fitlhela kwa metseng eo fa gongwe go tla go nna le ka fa e leng gore batho ga ba itshware sentle ka teng.

Fa ba na le kereke e e tlaa ba simololang kwa palong ya 50, e leka go ba rotloetsa gore re tshwanetse ra obama, ra tlotlana re le batho, ba tshwanetse ba letlelelwe gore ba dire jalo.
Go se ka gatwe a ba emele pele palo ya bone e ye kwa go 150, ke gone re ka ba lemogang kana ra ba kwadisa.

Ke yone puo fela e re e buang gore bakaulengwe, a kgang e re e sekasekeng.

a a neng a tsamaya a tsewa mo ditseleng gore jaanong a tle a tlhatswiwe a nne phepa gore a tle a dirisiwe.

Ke dingwe tse ke tsayang gore fa re ntse re tsamaya le tsone dintlha tseo, re di lebelele ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Fa ke wela, ke bo ke supa gore kwa bofelong ka gore molao o o tla le Mma Mokgethi, kana kwa Serowe machine o o dirang passports o sale o senyega ka 2019 mme le gompieno go thata jalo.

Jaanong e re fa a ntse a baakanya melao jaana, a se ka a e tla a re lebala ka machine oo ka gore jaanong ba Serowe ba dirisa e e kwa Palapye, e ba tsamayang dikgele tse ditelele go ya koo.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR LEUWE (TAKATOKWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo.

Ke a dumedisa rraetsho.


Le nna ke latlhele mo Molao- kakanyetsong o wa Societies Bill.

Ke dumela e bile ke a itse gore gantsi fa o bona go nna le molao go akanngwa ka one, go a bo go na le selelo, dingongora le sengwe se se dirang gore jaanong go itebaganngwe le molao o.

Go na le selelo fela se sentsi se se tswang kwa bathong, ke sone se re boneng go tlhokafala gore gongwe go tle Molao-kakanyetso o o tshwanang le o.
Go a supafala gore go na le madi fela a a neng a tsenngwa mo lefatsheng la rona mme a tsena ka ditsela tsa mekgatlho e e tshwanang le yone e, a bo a tla go tlhatswiwa, kwa bofelong a bo a siama.

Molao o maikaelelo a one ke go tla go leka go thiba diphatlha tse gore madi a a leswe a se ka a tlhatswiwa ka mekgatlho ya rona e e leng gore mo gongwe e dirilwe ka maikaelelo fela a a siameng, a a senang bana ba phefo, e bo e tla go tladiwa leswe ke one madi ao.
E bile re a itse gore go lehuma thata mo gae, matlhale jaanong a ile kwa godimo fela thata mo go feleletsang go dirisiwa matlhale a gore go dirisiwe societies tsa rona gore di tlhatswe madi a a leswe.

Keletso ke gore molao o o thibele thulaganyo e e ntseng jalo.

Gongwe gape mo mafokong a bofelo ka gore ke tsaya gore molao o o beilweng fa pele ga rona, o siame thata ka gore o batla gore o kganele dirukutlhi tse di rotloetsang mokgwa o o maswe.
Ntlha e nngwe e re tshwanetseng gongwe ra e lebelela jaaka Tona wa Sports a ne a bua fa re bua ka tsa metshameko, kana o tlaa fitlhela e le gore ka letsatsi la metshameko go na le gate takings tse di tsewang, e bo e re gongwe mo malatsing a a latelang go bo go ya go bewa madi.

Ke dingwe tse e leng gore ga re di tlhodumelwe gore kwa bofelong, gongwe ga re fitlhele e le gore we are depositing madi a a fetang a a bonweng kwa dikgorong.
E le gore go na le a mangwe E bile le one molao fa o dirwa Mr Speaker, maikaelelo ga se gore go tle go bogisa innocent people.

Ga o direlwe gore o ye go ama thata ba e leng gore tota ga o a tshwanela go ba ama.

Gompieno fela fa o tsaya sekai jaana, re tlaabo re tsaya gongwe dikereke, mpa ke ye kwa go one wa 150 wa dikereke.

Ke dumela gore nako e o neng o bewa go ne go na le mabaka, go dumalanwa gore kereke re kwadise maloko a le 150.
Mo bogompienong fa o ela tlhoko, go a pala gore mo dikgaolong tse di tshwanang le tsa rona kereke e kgone 150, bogolo jang ka gore ene 150 wa teng o batliwa motho a tla ka bo Omang ba batho bao ba ba certified, maina a bone, o tlhola a dikologa 17 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) naga e yotlhe a dira dilo tse ka expenses gore a ye go kwadisa kereke.
Gone moo go feletsa go baya dikereke tsa rona ka kwa mosing ka gore re na le dikereke kwa dikgaolong tsa rona tsa batho ba e leng gore le sekole tota motho ga a se tsena mme fa a ema fa pele ga gago fela fa a rera, bangwe ba bone e bile re tlhalefa re fitlhela e ntse e le baruti fela ba ba feletseng, ba ba fitlhang, ba ba itseng sengwe le sengwe, ba ba kgonang go balolola Bible le go gaisa ene yo a tseneng sekole.
Jaanong a bo a ya go kganelwa fela ke dithulaganyo fela tsa bo gore ga a ka ke a dira kereke ntateng ya 150.

Go bo go raya gore jaanong kereke eo jaanong ga e tlhole e nna kereke.

Gongwe Tona, molao o… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.

MR LEUWE: I yield Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke santse ke re ke wela pele, gongwe o ne o ka tloga wa elucidate fa moragonyana.
Keletso ya me e ne e le gore gongwe ka gore o bo o dirilwe ka bo 2016, re lebelele mo bogompienong fa ke baya sekai ka kereke nngwe kwa gae ya ga Moruti Macheng.

O tlhoma ka tlhogo bosigo le motshegare le phuthego e e nonofileng mo kerekeng mme 150 yo, o mo episa sekwakwa se e leng gore ga a kgone go se fitlhelela mme e le kereke e e nonofileng.

A ke go letlelele to elucidate Honourable Molao.

MR MOLAO: Elucidation.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga Honourable Leuwe.


Ke tsaya gore Tona o tlaa tla a e tlhatswa sentle mong wa Bill.

Ke gakologelwa sentle gore ka 2016 fa molao o o tlisiwa mo Palamenteng ka ke ne ke le teng, tota kgang ya kwadiso ya kereke ke gore nte ke fe sekai; ke gore kereke jaaka e le UCCSA re itse gore e na le makalana a a farologaneng lefatshe lotlhe ka bophara, kwadiso e ya 150 ga go tewe gore UCCSA ya Molepolole e dire 150, ya Letlhakeng e dire 150, ya Tutume e dire 150.
Ke gore UCCSA 150 yo e kwadisa gangwefela, a e ka tsaya maloko a le five kwa Thamaga, a le five kwa Molepolole, five kwa Gumare, ba bo ba dira this body in totality e bidiwa kereke.

Jaanong branches tse di gasagasameng tse mo lefatsheng ka bophara le fa ba le 50, they are still recognised as a church ka fa ke tlhaloganyang ka teng.

Go sa tewe gore branch bongwe le bongwe bo nne le 150.

Ke tsaya gore ke kutlwisiso e e neng molao o, o dirwa ka yone.
Kereke le fa e le ya tšhukutšhuku jaaka Motlotlegi Ramogapi a ne a bua, ga go tewe gore e bo e le ya branch jwa Palapye.

E ka nna tšhukutšhuku e phatlaletse le lefatshe lotlhe, e bo go tsewa maloko at different villages go dirwa 150.

Go bo go kwadisiwa e le kereke.

Ke kutlwisiso e ke neng ke ithaya ke re ke na le yone, e bile e ne e le teng ka nako eo.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Members.

It is 1 o’clock, let us adjourn re ye go kopa borakanelo.
Honourable Leuwe, you will continue at 2 o’clock.

You still have about 14 minutes, 22 seconds.

The House is adjourned.

PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 1:00 P.M. FOR APPROXIMATELY ONE HOUR PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 2:00 P.M. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, can we switch on our videos again to take care of the quorum.

Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, let us resume our proceedings.

When we adjourned for lunch, Honourable Leuwe was on the floor and he is left with 14 minutes, 22 seconds.
MR LEUWE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Good afternoon Mr Speaker and everybody.

Ke simolole ka go supa gore ke utlwile Honourable Molao ka elucidation ya gagwe.

O bua ka fa ke tlhaloganyang ka teng.

Ke tlhaloganya gore 150 ga a bue ka branches tse ke neng ke sa bue ka tsone.

Ga ke bue ka branches le nna.

O ne a baya sekai ka kereke ya me e ke e ratang thata ya Lontone.

Koo ke branches jaaka Honourable Molao a boletse.

Ke bua fa o batla to register kereke.


Ke baya sekai ka Moruti Mocheng kwa Sesung gore o ne a eletsa to register kereke mme go batliwa batho ba le 150.

Go mo tshwarisitse bothata thata.

Fa a sena to register kereke jaana, ke gone a ka yang go nna le branches tse Honourable Molao a neng a bua ka tsone tse le nna ke itseng gore di teng.

Tona e re fa a ya go sekaseka jaaka a re solofeditse gore o ya go lebelela Clause 6 le 7, le gone mo a go lebalebe, a go sekaseke.
Tona a bo a re tlhalosetse gore criteria e e neng e dirisiwa ya gore society ya sekereke e farologane thata le tse dingwe, tsone di fiwa 20, yone e bo e fiwa 150, ke efe?

Ke eng go ne go dirwa gore batho ba dumele gore se se buiwang ke Honourable Ramogapi gore Puso ya rona ga e rate sekereke go boammaaruri mme go se boammaaruri?

Puso ya rona e letleletse dikereke gore di nne dintsintsi ka go rata le go kgona go supa gore re badumedi.

Ke Puso ya tumelo.
Ke Puso ya tumelo.

Ke sone seo bonang le mebala ya rona e tsamaelana le wa Bible.

Mebala ya rona kwa phathing ya rona ya Domkrag Rre Kapinga, e supa gore re badumedi.

E supa mebala ya Bible e e mehibidu.

Fa o bula mo teng, o fitlhela bosweu.

18 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: Madi a ga Jeso.

MR LEUWE: Madi a ga Jeso Honourable Pegzozo.

Ke gone go supa gore party e, ke ya tumelo.

E agetswe mo tumelong.


Ga go na ka fa re ka bogisang tumelo ka teng Honourable Ramogapi, re badumedi thata.

Le fa o bona baki ya gago ele blue jaana, e supa gore le wena o modumedi, e tsamaelana le madi a ga Jeso.

Jaanong a go ye go sekasekwa go lebelelwe.

Tona o re tlhalosetse thata pharologanyo ya society le tse dingwe.

E re a leba, a fokotse gap e ke e bonang e fa gare ga 150 le 20 gore kwa dikgaolong batho ba kgone.
E tlaare fa ba se na go nna ba kgona to register dikereke, ba tlaa atologa, ba bo ba nna le branches, ba nna le dipalo tse di fetang 150.

You start small and grow big.

Ke dumela gore fa Tona a lebelela dikgang tse kwa molaong, a lebelela le ya 150 le review.

Go ka sologela batho mo dikgaolong tsa rona molemo thata.

Ke eletsa go supa gore ke na le lesokolelanyana gape ka Section 7 (c) jaaka mokaulengwe mongwe a ne a supa.
Fa batho ba le kwa dikgolegelong, we rehabilitate them, re bo re bolelela le setšhaba kwa ntle gore batho ba fa ba tswa, ba a bo ba le rehabilitated.

Ga ke itse a ke Honourable Kekgonegile kgotsa ke mang, re a bo re ba agile, jaanong le amogele kwa setšhabeng gore ba tsetswe sesha.

Ke rona ba re reng batho ba ba tsetswe sesha, re tswa go ba aga sentle kwa dikgolegelong.
Fa ba tsena kwa setšhabeng kwa re reng re ba ba amogele teng, re boa melao ya rona e supa gore fa o tswa mo kgolegelong o santse o na le lebadi le batho ba tshwanetseng ba go lemoge ka lone, ga se gone.

Dikereke fa ba le kwa dikgolegelong ba a di tsena, ba a rutwa.

Ba bangwe ba tswe koo ba tshotse certificates tsa go supa gore ke baruti ba ba feletseng.

Ba supa gore ba tsetswe sesha.


E se ka ya re re dumela gore re ba agile ba tsetswe sesha, ya re ba tsena kwa setšhabeng, re bo re boa re re, ba se ka ba amogelwa.

Ke dumela gore ke dintlha dingwe tse ke eletsang gore e re fa go sekasekwa go lejwa sentle, di lebelelwe thata.

A ga se gore re tlisa tlhakatlhakano mo setšhabeng gore ba se ka ba ba amogela ka gore ba tswa kwa kgolegelong.

Melato e mengwe o ya kwa kgolegelong e se gore o ne o o dira ka maikaelelo, o go tshoganeditse, o go wetse.
Mo gongwe e le gore o dirisiwa ke gore go na le sengwe se se neng se kgabola fa tlase ga gago, e se gore o tsetswe o le criminal.

Batho ba mofuta o, re itse gore fa ba tswa foo, ba a bo ba ikagile sesha.

Ba bo ba boela mo setšhabeng ba tsetswe sesha.

Go tsweng foo, fa e ne e se ditemana tse di neng di ntlatsa dimpana tseo, ke eletsa go supa ka tlhwaafalo gore Molao-kakanyetso o wa ga Tona, o siame.
Fa o ka ya go dirisiwa ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng …(inaudible)… le tsone tsa tsamaelana le ka fa re o dirang ka teng.

Maikaelelo a one e le go leka go thibela dikgang bogolo jang tsa madi a a leswe gore a se ka a tlhatsiwa ka societies tsa rona.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke ema Tona nokeng.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke dumedise, batlotlegi.

Ke dumedise le ba kwa Kgalagadi North.


Mr Speaker, ke ema Tshutiso e nokeng.

Ke tsile go bua ka Societies Bill le ka Non-Profit Organisation kana civil societies.

Bontsi ke batho ba ba ithaopang, e bile ba berekela lefatshe le thata because ba dira mo gotweng charitable work.

Most of the time ba bereka le Puso bogolo jang ke di bona mo Ministry of Local Government, tsone civil societies.
Mr Speaker, I support this Bill because bontsi jwa civil societies di fiwa madi mo lefatsheng, e bile madi a mangwe a tswa kwa ntle ga lefatshe.

Madi a re tshwanetse go itse gore a ga se a a tlhatswitsweng a a tswang kwa ntle ga lefatshe.

E bile le one fela jalo, le a a mo lefatsheng, re tshwanetse go bona gore a mme madi a, ke a a tlang ka tsela e e siameng ka gore re a itse gore Bill e re e buang e, re e amanya le Bills tsa money laundering and terrorism financing.
Mr Speaker, ke kopa go bala societies tse ka gore di bereka le ministry of local Government and lands.

Ke ka dira jalo Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Yes, Honourable Minister.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Yes.

Go na le SOS, ChildLine Botswana, Ark and Mark Trust, Masiela Trust Fund... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Mr Speaker.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Granted.

MR LEUWE: Point of clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.


Ke ne ke re for record purposes Honourable Speaker, motlotlegi a baakanye Ministry wa Local Government, a ntshe lands mo teng, ga se local Government and lands, for records purposes.

Ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba tlaa tla ba mmolela, ga ba ise ba mmolele sentle.

19 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kana ke gore le ene o bofefonyana.
MR SPEAKER: A ko le tlogeleng Minister a bue dikgang tsa gagwe.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Tlogela motho wa mme, tsala ya me Kekgonegile.

…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister jaanong ga re go utlwe.

Ga o utlwale Honourable Monnakgotla.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ee rra.

MR SPEAKER: Ga re sa go utlwa jaanong.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ga ke utlwale Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Now we can hear you.


MS MONNAKGOTLA: Yes, go na le Regional Psychosocial Support Initiative (REPSSI), Marang Childcare Network, Rock Solid Families, Re-a- Nyalana, Healthy Families Foundation, Stepping Stone International le Love Botswana.

Organisations tse Mr Speaker, ke tse di berekang le Local Government ka kwano.

Di dira tiro e ntle ka gore tse dingwe ke tse di tlhokomelang bana, tse dingwe ke tse di tlhokomelang malwapa a a thubegang.

Mr Speaker, COVID e amile malwapa.


Re a itse gore HIV ka dinako tsele, e amile malwapa, e ne e tsaya batsadi e tlogela bana ba le bannyennyane, mme the civil societies tse di ne di bereka, e bile di tlhokomela.

Se ke ka se go bolelelang, most of these civil societies, o fitlhela e le gore batho ba bomme ke bone ba ba eteletseng kwa pele go tlhokomela bana ba.

Ke bua jaana ka gore le Motlotlegi Mmolotsi o ne a re ke tlile go dira eng ka kwano.
Ke mmolelele gore ke tlile go bereka, e bile ke tlile go tlhokomela bana ba ba kgokgontshiwang, ba ba latlhegetsweng ke batsadi.

Societies tse ke sone se o bonang di le botlhokwa, mme fa re tlile go bua ka tsone.

Go na le tse dingwe tsa dikereke, re bua ka football fela jalo.

Football le yone e tlhokana le madi e bile ke kile ka support football ya bomme.
Kwa Kgalagadi North, kwa go Rre Leuwe kwa Takatokwane le kwa go Rre Kablay, bomme ba ne ba tlhama civil society e gotweng Segotja Molelo e e reng fa o tlhokafaletswe mo lelwapeng, e bo e go ya matshediso, e ya go go gotsetsa molelo.

Jaanong ke sone se o bonang ke bua ka the civil societies ke sa kgale mathe.

Ke dilo tse re itseng gore civil societies di tshwanetse go tsenngwa leitlho gore melawana ya tsone e tsamaelane le ya financial intelligence go fokotsa borukutlhi, money laundering le terrorism.
Go a tshwanela gore ofisi ya ga Registrar of Society e nne le nonofo go ka kgona to monitor civil society go bona gore ga ba involved mo go tlhatsweng madi.

Jaanong fa Registrar a ka dira dilo tse, go le gontsi go ka ya teng e bile go ka tlhamalala Mr Speaker.

Ke bo ke tswelela ke re melawana e ba FATF ba bona gore fela jaaka re ne re le mo grey list, they recommended ditshetlana dingwe gore re kgone go tswa mo grey list.
Gore o tswe mo go grey list e, bogolo jang re bereka le the societies, re tlhokana le thuto le go tshephana gore madi a a yang kwa go tsone, a ke a a phepa, a a siameng ka gore tsone di dira tiro e ntle, e bile re batla gore di dire tiro.

Ba bantsi gone fa Mr Speaker, ba teng gone fa bangwe batlotlegi ba ba neng ba ntshiwa mo tirong, ba latlhegelwa ke ditiro ba kobiwa gone jalo ka go ...(Inaudible)…cheque.

Mr Speaker, dilo tse ga se gore ga re di itse.


Fa o bona e re ke ema ke bua ka bo Civil Societies ka gore di tlhokomela bana le bomme, o bo o utlwa lentswe la ga Rre Ramogapi a batla gore a le tsholeletse kwa godimo, dilo tse di botlhokwa e bile molao o o siame, a o tsenngwe leitlho ka gore civil societies di a tlhokomela e bile re le bantsi gompieno jaana, ba bangwe go ne go na le dikgokgontsho kwa dikgaolong tsa rona kwa Kgalagadi North.
Ra tsenya Re-a-Nyalana, ke ne ke nyadisa Re-a-Nyalana ya couples di le 36 kwa Inalegolo ngogola Mr Speaker, ga go sa tlhole go na le kgokgontsho.

Jaanong fa motlotlegi a ema a bua ka Bill e a sa e bue sentle, ke utlwa mowa wa me o utlwa botlhoko, ke le motho wa mme ka gore e sireleditse bomme ba le bantsi.

Ke sone se o bonang ke bua thata ka yone.

Mr Speaker, re a itse gore re tlhokana le babeeletsi mo lefatsheng la rona.
Jaanong fa re tlhokana le babeeletsi, ba FATF fa ba re baakanyang se, re tshwanetse go baakanya ka gore re tlhokana le babeeletsi, go dira kgwebo, ga re na ditiro le dikgwebo.

Mr Speaker, ke dumalana le dikotlhao tse di tlaabong di lebisiwa mongwe mokgatlho o tota o tlaabong o sa sale ditsamaiso morago, o o ka tswang o lebagane fela jalo le financial crimes bogolo jang mo go tsa civil societies, a go tsenngwe leitlho, a di dupiwe (audit) le beneficial ownership e a tlhokafala.
Fela jaaka re letse re bua ka trusts.

Mr Speaker, melao e, e mengwe fela, fa o ka reetsa, bogolo jang mo trusts ka fa trusts di berekang ka teng, le tsone ke boithaopo, mme di direla batho ditiro.

Fa o hira batho ba le five, four, tota e a bo e le go fokotsa letlhoko la ditiro.

Societies jalo, le meneelo e e mo dikerekeng a e lebelelwe.

20 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) A go tsamaisiwe sentle dikereke, because madi a a tsena mo dikerekeng fa gongwe o tlaa fitlhela e le one a a tlhatswitsweng, a e nna madi a a phepha, ka gore kwa kerekeng re bua Sekeresete, re bua ka ka Modimo.

Ke Mokeresete ke tsena Lutheran Church Mr Speaker, fa o bua ka Modimo ke ka ema fa pele gago ke go rerela, mme ga ke batle madi a a tlhatswitsweng kwa dikerekeng, ka gore koo bontsi …(Inaudible)… ke tshidilo maikutlo.
Re bua ka gore fa o amegile mo maikutlong, fa e le gore sengwe…(Inaudible)… fela jaaka re batla go godisetsa bana mo dikerekeng.

Mr Speaker, a mekgatlho e yotlhe e sekasekiwe gore bope botlhabetsi bo se ka jwa money laundering bo se ka jwa amanngwa le mekgatlho e. Ke solofela gore ke buile go le gontsi, le Mme yo o kwa Maun o nkutlwile ka gore mekgatlho eo e teng kwa Maun.
Mme yo o kwa Gumare o nkutlwile, ka gore ke batla gore a sirelediwe, le ngwana wa gagwe ke tlile go tsena mo tirong e gore ke mo sireletse.

Le civil societies di ba sireletse, ke batla go bona bana ba ba kwa Save Our Soul (SOS) ba tshela sentle, e re ba bona madi a donations e bo e se a a tlhatswitsweng, gore e re kamoso FATF e bo e kgona go re ntsha mo grey listing.

Mr Speaker re ka bua go le gontsi, bogolo jang fa ke bua ka societies.

Ke ema Tshutiso e nokeng.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


MR SPEAKER: Thank you Minister.

MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Thank you Mr Speaker, good afternoon.

Mr Speaker, ga ke mafoko mantsi.

Go lebega re bua kgang e le nngwefela; batlotlegi rotlhe mo Palamenteng ya gago mongwame.
Mr Speaker, tla ke tlhamalale fela ke re thulaganyo e ya the Societies Bill, ke e e siameng thata, e le matsorotsoro ya Bills tse re tshwanetseng re di lebelele re bo re e fetisa re tsentse leitlho le le tseneletseng mo go yone, gore e tle e kgone gore e thuse lefatshe la Botswana, jaaka motho a ka le akanyetsa le ka tsenngwa mo go nngwe ya mafatshe a e leng gore gongwe tiriso ya madi a lefatshe ga e tsamaye sentle.
Ke sone se Mr Speaker, re buang gore Bills tse di tlile ka nako e e siameng, di batla re di tlhotlhoma tota, ga di a tshwanela gore re di shankodise fela Mr Speaker, ka go bo re le mo pitlaganong ya FATF.
Re tshwanetse ra lebelela le matshelo a batho ba rona ka kakaretso, gore a ga e re kwa morago ga letsatsi Mr Speaker, re bo re fitlhela re tsentse batho ba rona mo kgobedung ka go fetisa dikarolo dingwe tse gongwe re ne re sa di lebelela kwa tshimologong, ka go nna le letshogo of being black-listed jalojalo.
Mr Speaker, re tshwanelwa ke go ema dikgang tse nokeng jaana, ka gore ke tlaa dumela gore fa re tsena mo Palamenteng e ya lesome le bobedi (12), go ne ga nna le dikgang tse dintsi thata tse batho bangwe ba neng ba dumela gore for us to have been black-listed, ke ka lebakeng la… batho ba ne ba dumela jalo Mr Speaker, I want to stress this point… gore gongwe e ka tswa e ne e le ka lebaka la administration ya ga Rraetsho Motlotlegi Tautona Dr Masisi.
E ne e le dingwe dilo tse gongwe di neng di tswa kgakala di sa elwe tlhoko kana di sa diragale sentle.

Jaanong fa re le Batlotlegi Mapalamente across the aisle, dilo di tshwana le tse re itse gore lefatshe la Botswana le mo maruding a rona, re tshwanetse go bona gore re ya jang ka lone kwa pele.
Mr Speaker, having said that re tshwanetse go lebelela dikgang tse ke dumelang gore di ne di amilwe (raised) ke bo honourable fale, ke tsaya gore Honourable Ramogapi tse ke neng ka leboga thata fa rotlhe ke tsayang gore re ne re tsentse leitlho mo go tsone.

Rre fale ke utlwule a bua ka tsone a feta ka tsone, ka gore di mmalwanyana tse Tona a neng a fetola (respond) fa re ne re mmotsa gore o ikaelela go dira jang.
A fetola gore gongwe go tlaa… ga se gongwe, o rile o ya go di lebelela gore di ka tswa ka nngwe tsela.

A bona gore fa a dira mo thulaganyong ya gore jaanong gore Bill e fete, o tlaabo a di kopile gore di ntshiwe mo teng ga Bill e. Mr Speaker, nngwe e e tsositseng dikgang thata ke ya 150, go botlhokwa.
Re tswa kgakala jaaka batlotlegi bakaulengwe ba bua, kgang ya dikereke re a dumalana e bile re a itse gore bontsi jwa dikereke tse di runyang, di tsositse kgaruru or a lot of concern mo setšhabeng sa rona ka kakaretso fela.

Re tshwanetse ra lebelela ikwadiso le popego e di runyang ka yone.
Mr Speaker, re ka kgona go dira jalo fa jaanong re batla go itemogela gore di kwasitswe ka tsela e e ntseng jang, re tlhaloganya e bile re itse sentle gore Botswana ka kakaretso jaaka fa a atlhame rraetsho e na le rural areas le areas tse population ya teng e leng kwa tlase.

At the same time re le lefatshe la Botswana, re batho ba re dumelang mo Modimong.

Kana gore gongwe o ye go nna moruti kana gongwe o nne moreri wa tlhwatlhwa ga go tlhokafale gore o bo o ile sekoleng go ithutela dilo tseo.
Ke neo e e tswang kwa Modimong, mme fa o ntse o tsweletse o rera, o kgona gore o nne le tshono ya gore o ngoke batho o nne le balatedi ba gago.

Mr Speaker, ga re a tshwanela gore re tle ka molao o o tlaa pitlaganyang motho mongwe gore o ka ipulela phuthego.

Fa re dumela gore lefatshe la Botswana le dumela mo Sekereseteng, fa re dumela gore letsatsi le letsatsi bosigo le bosigo sepe se re se 21 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) dirang re tsena mo diofising, re ikana jaaka ke ntse mo ofising ya Palamenteng jaana ke ikanetse go tsena fa, ke ne ke dira jalo ka tumelo ya Modimo, re tshwanetse fela jalo Mr Speaker go dira melao e e tlamang ditumelo tsa bone, e tlaabo e le kgang e re e tsentseng leitlho thata Mr Speaker.

Le nna jalo Mr Speaker, ke bona palo ya 150 e le palo e e kwa godimo.
I need to tell this Honourable House gore ka nako ele ya bo 1994 re le ma-land board, re ne ra rontsha batho ditsha ka bontsi ba batla go baya ditsha tsa dikereke, re dumela mo go reng kereke ya gago e tshwanetse e bo e kwadisitse batho ba le 250.

I think subject to be corrected, ope yo o tlaa nna le kitso, but I believe ka nako eo re ne re re 250 should be the minimum.

Jaanong ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, re godile, re rutegile e bile re ikepetse thata mo tumelong re le lefatshe le.
A go tswa ka dingwaga tseo go tla go tsena gompieno jaaka Rre Molao a ne a bua gore, around 2016 it was 150 rraetsho, Mr Speaker, fa re lebile seemo sa gompieno re dumela gore COVID-19 e re rutile dilo tse dintsi tse, why can we not believe that COVID-19 has also taught us about Christianity attendance, and taught us to drop the number to be 50 and equally ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, go raya gore we should …(Inaudible)… come up with another way when we register these churches.
It will be frank for any society to…(Inaudible)… 50 people gore e kgone gore e nne kereke e e tlhabologileng.

Mr Speaker, molao o o tlang re tlaabo re lebile gore whether a society e na le batho ba le kae, a ga e ye go nna lekgotla le dirukutlhi di ka tsenang ka yone.

We need to bear that in mind Mr Speaker.

E nngwe ke go supa gore…(inaudible)…mokaulengwe, I think that is Section 7c (i), a criminal offence within …(inaudible)… Botswana, go buiwa gore o ya go rontshiwa to register mokgatlho.
Mr Speaker, le yone fela jalo, maybe I misinterpreted what is written here and equally anybody there may correct me.

What are we saying, ra re batho ba ba tswang kwa toronkong ba tshwanetse go amogelesega within their communities, but at the same time, people …(inaudible)… fa motho a tswa koo, whatever the rehabilitation may be, but fa motho a tswa kwa toronkong ba re ga o ka ke wa nna le mokgatlho, ga o ka ke wa etelela mokgatlo pele, is this what we are saying?
Where are we going, what are we teaching our people?

Let us be honest, what we are saying to our communities out there could be something that practically as law makers we have to put it ka fa molaong, gore batho ba kgone go tlhaloganya thulaganyo ya gore, indeed the Government of the day o na le keletso ya go batla go bona gore e se ka ya re kamoso motho a bo a na le maikutlo a go boela mo toronkong.
E le nngwe ya dilo tse re di galaletsang e re a gata …(inaudible)… ya go tswa mo toronkong re mo galaletse re mo reye re re, welcome to your society, welcome to the people, come and do se o se ithutileng kwa le toronkong…(inaudible)… because go na dikereke, ba ithuta dilo tse tsotlhe.

O kgona go tswa kwa a bo a go raya a re, mme ke ka dira sepe se se nang le matshelo.

…(Inaudible)… Mr Speaker, ba ka tsena mo motseng kana mo society ya bone ka tsone ba tswa mo toronkong.
Mr Speaker, e re ntswa kgantele kgang e ya kwadiso ya parties e builwe ka bophara, but I want to be honest to myself, maybe I failed to understand somewhere, somehow.
I think ke Clause 2 e e neng e supa gone fa e bua ka …(inaudible)… Rre Molebatsi was just hanging around a ya kwa le kwa, le nna a ntsentse mo pitlaganong fa a ne a bua gore, fa re bua ka parties tsa sepolotiki, re bua ka social activity or …(inaudible)… I was listening attentively to kgang ya teng, but I am sorry to say I failed to get exactly se go neng go buiwa ka sone.
Mr Speaker, re bona Trusts di kwadisiwa, tota fela jaaka ke sa tswa go bua fela jaaka ka dikereke, I feel gore…sorry sir o batla go bua sengwe Honourable Molebatsi?

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Ee rra clarification, ke ne ke utlwa o re ke ne ke go tsentse mo pitlaganong mokaulengwe, o ne o sa tlhaloganya sengwe ka nna, ke tlhalose?

MR BROOKS: Ke ne ke rialo ke re o ne o le mo pitlaganong e le nna o neng wa ntsenya mo go yone.
Jaanong o ya go tswelela o ntsenya mo go yone go feta fa ke neng ke tsene mo go yone Honourable Molebatsi.

Tla nna le wena re e tlogelele batlhalosi gore ba tle ba e tlhalose, thank you sir.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke santse ke batla gore, nako e gorogile ya gore fa re register sepe se se batlang to be registered re bo re lemoga gore se na le an outside influence.
Re tshwanetse ra se tsaya motlhala mo go tseneletseng, go itemogela gore trigger ya kwadiso e se bo se e tlhotlhoetsa se batla bonako jo bo kanakana, se ka tswa se dirilwe ke eng, se tswa fa kae.

Re tshwanetse go tsenya leitlho le le tseneletseng mo dikgannyeng tse di ntseng jalo.

E le nngwe ya dilo tse re tlaa di dirang ka bofefo jaaka bakaulengwe ba sa tswa go bua.

Ke dumela gore ke ne ke latlhela la mmotlana, le 22 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) dikgang tsa bakaulengwe, re bua kgang e le nngwe fela, we are all concerned about some of the processes tse go builweng ka tsone.

Minister, prior to what we said, o setse a supile gore dilo dingwe o ya to amend them and to maybe clean them…(inaudible)… from this Bill.

We will say, at the time she will presenting amendment ya gagwe kana a supa tse a tlaabong a…(inaudible)….

I do stand here to support this Bill 100 per cent Mr Speaker, I thank you.
MR REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): Tanki Mr Speaker gore o bo o mphile tshono e gore le nna ke latlhele a le mabedi.

Ga ke ikaelele go nna moleele ka gore bakaulengwe ba buile kgang e ka boleele, mme e bile ka bokgabane.

Gongwe ke go tlaleletsa fela fa gongwe fa ba ka neng ba setse ba go tlogetse kwa morago.

Kgang e ke batlang go simolola ka yone ke gore, Molao o o tshwanang o o botlhokwa fela thata ka gore o ya go ama bontsi jwa Batswana kwa dikgaolong bogolo segolo.
Kana tota e re ntswa re lebile gore ba FATF ba ne ba reng, le one molawana o o ya go ama Batswana matshelo a bone, bontsi jwa bone ba ntse ba itshetsa ka societies, jaanong fa go tsena fa go ntseng jaana ba tshwanetse go nna le thuto ba itse gore jaaka fa re baakanya molao ba ya go amega ka tsela e e ntseng jang, gore le bone ba tle ba o sale morago ba o diragatse jaaka go tshwanetse.
Ke dilo tse di botlhokwa fela thata gore re kope Tona gore fa re sena go fetisa Molao o a dire thulaganyo ya gore Batswana ba o itse jang, ba ya go rutwa jang.

E se ka ya re kgabagare jaanong ba fitlhelwa ba tsherwe ke molao o ba neng ba sa itse gore o tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Mr Speaker, go boammaaruri, kana mekgatlho e mengwe e ka nna ya dirisiwa ke batho ba ba mo gae mo Botswana, le ba ba kwa ntle go tlhatswa madi jaaka bakaulengwe ba ntse ba bua.
Go tlhatswa madi mo re raya money laundering, ke gone mo go ka dirisiwang ba mekgatlho e tshwana le yone e. A ke ka ne e le ya metshelo, burial societies, footballs kana ya eng, e ka nna ya dirisiwa gore madi a a sa nnang sentle a amoganwe ka dikgang tse di ntseng jaana.

Go botlhokwa gore ka ba FATF ba setse ba re file lesedi la gore dikgang tse fa di ka se ke di elwe tlhoko re le lefatshe la Botswana di ka re baya ka fa mosing.
Ke gore re baakanye melao, gore e tle e tsamaelane le ka fa mafatshe dikgang tseo ba di lwantshang ka teng.

Le rona re tle re fitlhelwe re na le seabe sa go lwantsha dikgang tse di tshwanang tse ka gore ke borukutlhi.

Go tsaya madi o a dirisa mo ditseleng tse di sa siamang, o a fapaanya matsogo mme go sa lebagana ke borukutlhi, ka gore ga re itse kwa a simologang teng, e bile ga re itse kwa a felelang teng.

Ga re itse mong wa one wa tshimologo, ga re itse mong wa one wa bokhutlo.
Go maleba gore societies tse di nne kelotlhoko le tsone di se ka tsa fitlhela gongwe di le mo mathateng.

Ke batla go bua ka kgang e Mr Speaker, e ne ya re mo dingwageng tsa bo 2020 fa di simologa, ra nna le kgolo e e ntsi thata ya dikereke, tse re neng ra di fa maina ra re ke tsa fire.

Dingwe tsa tsone were pushing madirelo mo factories, warehouses, go tsena dikereke mo teng.
Le bone beng ba warehouses tseo kana ba ne ba ka se ke ba tlhoke go tsaya tshono eo ka gore, dikereke di ne di tsaya madi mo Batswaneng di duela beng ba warehouses tse.

Go ne go le gontsi mo e leng gore tota le ba ba neng ba tlhoka ditiro jaanong ba ne ba setse ba boela mo dikerekeng tse di ntseng jaana.

Fa Molao o o ne o le teng nako eo, o ka bo o kganetse dilo tse, ka gore bontsi jwa tsone o ne o fitlhela e bile beng ba tsone e se Batswana, e le batswakwa.
Bontsi jwa Batswana ba ne ba dirisa, a ke salaries tsa bone go duela dikereke tseo, a ke ba dikgwebo, ba pension.

Ba bangwe e bile ba rekisa le dithoto tsa bone gore ba ye go ntsha madi mo dikerekeng tse di neng di ba raya di re di ka a oketsa.

Golo mo, re ne re sa itse gore madi a a kanakana a felela fa kae, a ya kae.

Jaanong molao o ke one o o tlaabong o le maleba gore o ka bo o ne wa tla yone nako eo gore dikgang tse o di ele tlhoko ka gore bangwe ba bone ba ne ba sa duele makgetho.
E ne e le madi fela ba a tsaya re sa itse gore a felela ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Jaanong jaaka fa re tlile ka molao o tshwana le o jaana, re na le tumelo e e tletseng gone foo, warehouses di tlaa simolola di dira tiro ya tsone e e maleba, e seng gore e bo e nna dikereke.

Bontsi jwa dikereke tse, e ne e re fa ba sa bone warehouses gope, sa bone e bo e le go tlhoma ditante fa ba ka di tlhomang teng, e bo e le gore go tsewa madi gone foo.
Jaanong ke dumela gore o tlile o le maleba, e bile o re tlhabile podi matseba gore dikgang tse re bone gore di ka fela ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Mr Speaker, go na le Clauses dingwe tse e leng gore o kare ga ke wele mo go tsone.

Kgang e ya gore gongwe fa o kile wa lebisiwa molato kana wa ya toronkong, e bo e le gore o ka se ke o nne le seabe, gongwe re e lebe gape.
Ka gore fa motho a tshwarwa fa gongwe a bo a isiwa kwa toronkong, maikaelelo ga se gore re ye go mo senya ka tsela epe, ke gore a ye go agiwa gape gore e re fa a a tswa koo, a bo a tla a agegile.

Jaanong ga e ka ke ya re fa a tswa koo gongwe jaanong a tla a sokologile e le gore o tswa go rerelwa koo a dumela le ene a wela, 23 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) le ene a bona gore dirile molato, a ikopa maitshwarelo, e bo e le gore jaanong re mo atlholetse botshelo jotlhe gore nnyaa mme e bile ga o ka ke wa dira sepe ka gore o kile wa ya kwa toronkong.

Ke re, Tona, a ko re lebelele golo foo, re bone gore a re ka se ke re e sekaseke, e balege sentle, e nne sentle.

Re se ka ra ba kganela fela kwa thoko ka gore ke a ba itse bangwe ba e leng gore gompieno jaana ke baruti.
Ba eteletse dikereke pele, ba bangwe ba eteletse tsone societies tse pele, ba bangwe mo businesses tse di hirileng batho, o bona gore motho yo e rile fa a tswa kwa ntlong e ya kgolegelo, a bo ka boammaaruri a tla a agegile, e bile e le motho yo o ka nnang mosola mo setšhabeng.

Go na le ba e leng gore ba ya go tla ba sa nna jalo, mme gongwe a go sekasekiwe go lebilwe gore batho ga ba tshwane, ba tshwanetse gore jaanong ba bangwe ba tle ba agegile mme ba ka dira tiro e e tshwanang le yone e e ntseng jalo.
Jaaka fa ke sa tswa go bua, ba bantsi ba e leng gore ba teng mo setšhabeng mo, ba na le dikereke le tse tsotlhe tse e leng gore di a amogelesega mo setšhabeng.

Ke re a ko o e lebelele mmaetsho gore e ka bewa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

E nngwe ya bobedi ke e re ntseng bakaulengwe ba bua ka yone e, ya the definition ya Clause 2 ya palo e ya 150 e. Ke tsaya gore Honourable Molao o ne a leka gore a e tlhalose, mme o ne... ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Clarification.
Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Ke utlwa mokaulengwe Mokwena ka fa a a tshwereng kgang e ka teng.

Ntswa ke dumalana le ene, ke ne ke batla gore a mphetise fa, gore kana bone ba makgotla one a a bo FATF, ke bone ba ba reng ba tlisitse recommendations tse Tona a re di beileng pele gore fa motho a tswa kwa toronkong kana a reng jalo, gongwe go na le dipelaesego tsa gore gongwe o ka nna motlhofo go tsena mo dikgannyeng tsa go dirisa madi jalo kana o ka raelesega.
Ke tshwantshanya kgang e le e e kileng ya tla mo Palamenteng e, ya bana gore fa motho a dirisitse ngwana botlhaswa, a bo a tsenngwa mo register.

A yone e fa o e tshwantshanya le e, a o akanya gore gongwe mokaulengwe le yone eo, gongwe fa motho a tswa a sena go dirisa ngwana botlhaswa, e re fa a tswa mo toronkong re bo re mo sutlha mo register e?

Kana ke tsaya gore ke dikgang tse pedi tse e leng gore di a tsamaelana ka bokete.

MR REGOENG: Ke a go utlwa Honourable Minister.


Se ke se buang ke gore fa motho a tswa kwa toronkong, ga ke batle ka gore gotlhelele o a bo a ntse a le molato fela jaaka la ntlha fa a tsena.

Re na le tumelo ya gore fa a tsena, o ntse jaana, mme fa a ya go tswa, o tswa moo a le pharologanyo.
Of course, ba bangwe ba ka nna ba tswa moo ba ntse ba ntse ka tsela e e tshwanang le yone e e ntseng jaana, mme ga re ka ke ra goboka fela, re bo re re nnyaa, a e bo e le gore fa a tswa kwa toronkong, o a latlhwa fela go ntse jalo.
Jaanong e o buang ka yone gore motho a dirisitse ngwana botlhaswa, fa a tswa moo a o ka phimolwa mo register, nnyaa, ga ke batle go dumalana le yone, di ka ne di tshwana mme ga ke batle go dumalana le yone ka gore tota tiriso ya ngwana botlhaswa ga se tiro e e leng gore ope o ka e letla gore e bo e ka tswelela ka tsela e e tshwanang le e e ntseng jalo.

Mme ke ne ke wela mo go e ya definition ya Clause 2 ya palo ya 150 ke re, Tona, ga se gore palo e gongwe go tlaare o e lebelele gape mmaetsho?
O kare ke bete se molangwana ka yone.

Ke gakologelwa gore Honourable Molao o ne a rile o a tlhalosa gore nnyaa, kana e ka bo gongwe 150 e gongwe go tewa go tsentswe branches lefatshe le lotlhe fela le.

Jaanong go raya gore le potso e nna gone gore, a o dira branches pele ga o register kereke kana o register kereke pele ga o simolola branch jo bongwefela bone joo?
Jaanong ka re, fa re e bala fa, yone e tlhamaletse fela gore fa o register kereke o simolola, o tshwanetse o bo o na le palo ya batho ba ba ntseng jalo, ke re a e baakanngwe.

Ke dumela gore palo e fela le fa e ka boela ko tlase fela jaaka tse dingwe tse re ntseng re bua gore le fa e le 20 o ka simolola, le yone kereke go rapela Modimo, ga go tlhoke palo e e kae kae.

Ka gore lefoko la Modimo le a bua fela la re fa bobedi bo leng teng, ke wa boraro le ka tswelela.
Jaanong e tshwanetse go tsaya yone trend yone eo, gore nnyaa a re boele kwa palong e e kwa tlase go bona gore dikereke di kgona gore di bo di ka register.

Bakaulengwe ba ntse ba a fa sekai sa gore kana re na le metse e mebotlana, e e leng gore o ya go fitlhela fa gongwe population ya teng e le 100 kana 200, mme fa dikereke di le pedi gone foo, di share batho ba ba ntseng jalo, go raya gore di ya go felela fela e le 100 - 100, go bo go raya gore kereke ya mohuta o o ntseng jalo ga e ka ke ya register.
Ke re, nnyaa, ke ne ke akanya gore e lebelele mmaetsho o tle o bone gore o ka e baakanya ka tsela e e ntseng jang gore e tle e wele fa e tshwanetseng teng.

Kgang e nngwe e ke batlang go feta ka yone, ke yone ya gore madi a ka nna a tlhatswiwa ka institutions tse dingwe tse re nang natso kana le tsone dikole.

Fa le gakologelwa bakaulengwe, e ne ya re mo dingwageng di se kae tse di fetileng, ra nna le dikole tse di ikemetseng 24 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) ka bonosi di le dintsi mo lefatsheng le la Botswana le.

Tse dingwe le fa nne e tswa Goromente a romela bana kwa go tsone, mme fela the fact ke gore di ne di le dintsi ka palo e e neng e tshwenya, mme le tsone re sa itse gore madi a tswa leng, a simolola fa kae, a felela fa kae.
Dikgang tse ke tse re tshwanetseng gore re di lebelele tsotlhe ka tsela yone e e ntseng jalo ka gore kgang e ya money laundering, it is very simple and gore e bo e ka dirisiwa ka sengwe le sengwe, ampo e ka dirisiwa ka go tla ka megopolo e batho ba ka tlang ka yone, bone ba itse gore ba mo borukutlhing.

Mme ka one mafoko ao Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke ema molao o nokeng gore re tle re baakanye dilo tse, e se re kgabagare ra fitlhelwa jaanong le rona o kare re rotloetsa borukuthi.
Re mo dithulaganyong tse tsa go tlhatswa madi ampo money laundering jaaka re ntse re bua, mo e leng gore tota go tlaabo go baya lefatshe la rona mo diphatseng, go baya Batswana mo diphatseng.

Ke re ka one mafoko ao, ke ema Molao-kakanyetso o nokeng gore o fete.

Ke batla go gatelela kgang ya thuto Minister.

A batho ba rutwe, e se ka ya re kgabagare ba bo ba fitlhela e le gore jaanong selo se o kare se ba tsere ka tshoganetso.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


FOR PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Tla ke ikokobetse Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke go dumedise ke bo ke dumedise bakaulengwe ba me ba ba mo Palamenteng.

Ga ke na go nna moleele rraetsho.


Puo e ke eletsang gore ke fete ka yone ke ya gore, re tlhaloseditswe ka botlalo gore melao e re e fitlhetseng e le mo Palamenteng e, ka tshoganetso mo bogompienong, maikaelelo le maikemisetso a melao e, kgotsa melawana e, ke go leka go araba dikgwetlho dingwe tse di amanang le dikgang tsa grey listing, tse re ntseng le tsone mo nakong e e fetileng, mme e le gore maitlamo a matona, maikalelo a matona le kgangkgolo, ke go bona gore ga re boele koo gape.
Re tlhabele pele ka gore mo nakong ya go tilwe we have been grey listed, re a itse gore rotlhe ba re mo Ntlong e, re ne re tlhoka boroko, ntlha e e re tshwentse, e bile Batswana ba ne ba amegile thata ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Dikgwebo di ne tsa kgoreletsega.

Of course re tshwanetse re leboge Puso eno ya Domkrag gore e bo e ne ya dira gore re tswe mo grey list.
Ke leboge bookamedi, ke leboge Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tautona le Goromente wa gagwe, wa rona, re leboge ba Finance ka fa ba ileng ba bereka ka teng le makalana a mangwe a a farologaneng a Puso go bona gore ba dira tsotlhe tse di maleba gore re a tswa, e re fa re sekasekwa re ntshiwe mo grey list.
Tona o ne a tla fano mo Palamenteng gore re tshwanetse re tswele ruri, e se ka ya re fa ba tsena gape ba tlile go re sekaseka, ba re fitlhela re le mo …(inaudible)… Re tshwanetse…,tse dingwe tsa tsone re di dira e le gore re dira regulations, re dira melao e e farologanyeng go bona gore ga re boele gape mo seemong sone seo.

Ka moo, ga tlamega gore melao mengwe e tle.
Ke sengwe se re leng mo Palamenteng, molao o jaaka go ntse go supiwa, ba mafatshefatshe ba ba lebaganyeng le dikgang tseno tsa borukutlhi, tsa go dirisa madi go a tlhatswa, money laundering, dikgang tsa go dirisa madi to finance terrorism le tse dingwe, ba ntsha dikgakololo tsa gore baakanyang se gore le se ka la iphitlhela le le lefatshe le le mo seemong se e leng gore kamoso mekgatlho mengwe ya lona kgotsa lefatshe la lona re ka le fitlhela le le mo seemong se le ka dirisiwang bonolo ke dirukutlhi, maepantlo le dinokwane.
Go bona gore lefatshe la rona le a babalesega, ga re iphitlhele re le mo mathateng.

Societies Bill e e fa pele ga rona, e e tlisitsweng fa pele ga rona mo gompienong ke mengwe ya melao e e leng gore bone ba mafatshefatshe, bone ba FATF fa ba leba, ba bo ba re go na le melao mengwe ke e, baakanyang fa, baakanyang fa.
Ka gore fa o leba Recommendation 8.1 e e reng, “That …(inaudible)… identification of features and types of Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) or non-political organisation likely to be at terrorism financial risks.” Ke gore go sekasekwa go bona gore recommendation ke gore mekgatlho e e leng gore e kare dinokwane le dirukutlhi, ke efe mekgatlho kgotsa society tseo tse go leng bonolo gore di dirisiwe, tse e leng gore terrorists ba ka di dirisa bonolo.
Ke buisiwa se Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente gore Batswana ba se ka ba akanya gore re le Puso re ne ra nna fa fatshe re bo re re a re yeng go dira jaana, re ye go dira jaana, re ye go dira jaana.

Tse re tlileng ka tsone re le Puso fa pele ga Palamente ke dintlha tse e leng gore re gakolotswe ke bone ba ba amegang.
Ga e se ke e re ka moso e bo e lebega jaaka o kare re ne re dira fela jaana o kare re a kgatlhisa kante o kare gotwe gongwe rona re ne re se batlile ke kgakololo gore mokgatlho mongwe mo garona e se re ka moso e bo e dirisiwa to finance kgotsa madi a tlhatswiwa ka mekgatlho yone eo, mme mekgatlho e e farologaneng e tlhotse e builwe.

Ke sone se re leng fano.

Ka tsela e, Batswana ba tshwanetse 25 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) ba se ka ba akanya kwa ba teng gore Puso jaanong e batla go re kgoreletsa, e batla go kgoreletsa dikereke le NGOs.

Ga se yone kgang.

Re fa boemong jwa tšhaba ya rona.

Re fa mo Palamenteng go bona gore lefatshe la Botswana melao ya rona e nyalana jang le melao ya mafatshefatshe e e leng gore melao e e ka boloka tšhaba e, Batswana ba ka se ke ba sokele ka epe tsela.

Ke sone se re leng fano gore re tle ka melao e e ka bolokang tšhaba ya rona.
Recommendations tse difa tse, melao e e fa e e tla e folowa e setse morago recommendation issues tse re di beileng pele gore re kgone gore re se ka ra boela kwa grey list.

Jaanong dintlha tsotlhe tse di mo molaong o wa societies, dingwe tsa tsone fale le fale di tlaa lebega o kare di a re kgoreletsa.

Kana jaaka re itse batho betsho, dirukutlhi ke tsone di re tsentseng mo seemong se re leng mo go sone.
Dirukutlhi ka go finance, go dirisa mekgatlho e e farologaneng, ke tsone di dirileng gore jaanong mafatshefatshe a ele tlhoko, go bulwe matlho go bonwe gore go ka dirwa eng gore setšhaba se se ka sa wela mo mathateng.

Ke sone se re leng fano.

Re raya gore e se ka ya re e buiwa, a bo e kare Puso e batla go kgoreletsa dikereke le mekgatlho.

Kgang ga e foo.

Ke dikgakololo.


Fa re sa diragatse thulaganyo yone e, fa re sa pasise molao wa mofuta o, re dumela gore re ya go kgorelediwa gongwe re le dikereke, ke baya e le sekai, le fa ke e tla ke utlwa re ikganetsa mo tseleng fano, re re dikereke di di ntsi, re ne re re fokotse dipalo tsa registration.

Ke baya e le sekai.

Go sa reye gore go molato.


E bile gape ke eletsa gore tota Batswana ba tshwanetse ka gore ka fa re etsang re present ka teng re ka bo re le Puso re re re ya go kgoreletsa dikereke.

Ke re nnyaa ga go na… MR BROOKS: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke batla go tlhaloganya sengwe fela Mr Minister ka go lebega e kete re a dumalana ka kgang ya dipalo tsa kwa kerekeng.
Nnyaa, go na le tangent issues tse le di neetsweng fa le ne le dira molao o ke ba FATF, people that will be assisting us, or we are doing this kwa go bone gore re itse gore ba re neetse certain condition of specifically the number of people… Ke ne ke batla gore ke e tlhaloganye gone foo sir.

Thank you.

The FATF a le neetswe standards tsa gore this should be the number?

Gongwe re ntse re debate re siasia re sa tlhaloganye gore what is exactly needed in this.

Thank you sir.

MR MORWAENG: Ke a leboga.


Ke sa itse gore a go setse se dirilwe, mme ke bona gore gongwe mokaulengwe o a se bua ke gore, gongwe recommendations tsone tsa 26 ba mafatshefatshe ba ba re gakololang ka dikgang tse tsa borukutlhi, terrorism le money laundering, gongwe go ka nna botlhokwa fa e le gore Finance Minister ga a dira jalo gore a tle a re di neele, re tle re di ipalele re le Mapalamente a a farologanyeng gore this has been recommended.
One of the major recommendations ke gore sengwe le sengwe se e leng gore se ka dira gore re iphitlhele dirukutlhi di re dirisitse, nngwe ya dilo tseo ke societies.

Jaaka ke bua, go gontsi mo go farologaneng mo e leng gore go tlaa re thusa go ya pele.

Societies fa o utlwa ke bua ka tsone ka gore …(interruption)…mma ke fetse, o tlaa bua ka nako ya gago.

Ka tsela e, ke bo ke re ke eletsa gore setšhaba se itse gore maikaelelo a Puso ga se go kgoreletsa.
Maikaelelo a Puso ka gore bone ba jaaka ke ne ke bua ka bone Recommendation 8.1.a number 8.1.b ke e baya e le sekai, ba supa gore nngwe tsa tse e leng gore di bonolo go ka dirisiwa ke dirukutlhi, ke dife, and among them societies tse di farologanyeng di kgona go dirisiwa.

Se o se lwantshang fa ke terrorism and money laundering.

Jaanong tota ke ne ke re fela gore Batswana bagaetsho ba se ka ba akanya gore re lwantsha setšhaba kante re batla go tlhasela setšhaba, kante re batla go tlhasela freedom ya batho.
Ga re batle go tlhasela freedom ya batho jaaka freedom of religion e le sekai.

Batswana ba se ka ba akanya gore Puso e e lwantsha freedom of religion, ga re e lwantshe.

Batswana ba a letlelesega, mo ba tlaa nnang ba tswelela ba obama freely.

Ke batla go tlhomamisetsa dikereke gore di se ka tsa gogomosiwa maikutlo ke bangwe fa ba bua jaaka e kare Puso jaanong e ya go kgoreletsa dikereke.

Kgang fa ke gore NGOs or non-profit making organisations should remain like that.
Mokgatlho o o tlhamilweng maikaelelo le maikemisetso e le gore ga se o o dirang madi, ke o e leng gore ke wa dithuso; charity organisations, kereke, trust kgotsa eng or any society gore they should remain like that.

E se ka ya go fetoga mo tseleng, ya nna se sele.

Non-profit societies di se ka tsa dirisiwa ka botlhaswa, di nne… OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): On a point of clarification.

Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Morwaeng, o e tshwere sentle.
Ke utlwa ka fa o buang ka teng ka go tlhatswa madi mme e bile o bua ka societies.

Ke a bona gore Puso e ema nokeng societies fela jaaka le nna ke ne ke di balolola di le more than 20, tse di enngweng nokeng ke Puso, di abelwa ke yone, di iphelwa madi a a siameng …(Inaudible)… Ke a leboga mokaulengwe.

Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR MORWAENG: Thank mokaulengwe.
you very much Ke wetsa ka mafoko a gore kgang fa go rotloediwa maikarabelo (accountability), ke sone se se rotloediwang.

Kgang fa go rotloediwa gore dilo di direlwe mo pontsheng (transparency).

Kgang fa go rotloediwa gore fa o tlhamile lekgotla e le la bopelotlhomogi, le se ka la dirisiwa ke dirukutlhi go tswa mo tseleng.

Kgang ga gotwe dikereke di se ka tsa tlhamiwa, Puso ya re di tlhamiwe mme di tlhamelwa se e leng sone.

ka ba dirisa botlhaswa bofe fela.


Ke yone kgang e e tlileng gore lefatshe la rona le sekasekwe sentle gore ga se le le ka dirisiwang bonolo ke dirukutlhi tse.

Batswana ba itse gore fa e ka re re sekasekwa dilo tse re bo re sa di dira, kana re boela gape kwa bo grey listing, black listing, jalojalo.

Kopo ya me ke kopa Ntlo e ya Palamente gore bakaulengwe ba me ka boikokobetso jo bo tona, a re emeng molao o nokeng.
A re o emeng nokeng ka gore ke one o ka re thusang go sireletsa lefatshe la rona, re bo re lebege re le sireleditse.

Societies; a ke burial kana society efe, di tswelele di nne teng ka tshwanelo ya tsone.

Kgang ke gore re ele tlhoko societies tse di farologanyeng gore di se ka tsa iphitlhela di dirisitswe botlhaswa ke dinokwane, maepantlo le dirukutlhi tse e leng gore ba botlhabetsi mo mafatshefatsheng, ba ba e tleng ba bidiwe gotwe ke terrorists.
Bangwe ba bone ba bo ba rwelerwele madi ka dibolosaka mo e leng gore kgabagare jaanong madi a, ba bo ba ka senka ditsela tsa go bona gore ba ka a dirisa jang jaaka re ntse re dirisa lefoko go a tlhatswa.

Ke ne ke eletsa gore Batswana ba itse gore fa ke to promote accountability, go tsaya maikarabelo gore dilo di direlwe mo pontsheng gore mongwe le mongwe a bo a arabela se a se dirileng gore dinokwane di se ka tsa iphitlha ka mekgatlho e e farologanyeng.

Ke one maikaelelo.
Ke one maikaelelo.

Maikaelelo ga se go kgoreletsa Batswana mo go direng tse ba di dirang.

Ke eletsa gore Batswana ba itse gore they are still free go ka obama e bile ba ya go tswelela ba obama ba sa kgorelediwe.

Batswana dintlha tse ba tshwanetse ba di itse.

Ba re ngongoregang ka gore gongwe dikereke di dintsi, e ka re ba ka ngongorega gape ka gore dibara di dintsi.

Tlogelang dikereke go na le tsamaiso ya tsone fa di tlhamiwa.
Fa di tlhamiwa melawana e teng, kgang ke gore a kereke kana society fa e kwadisiwa go salwa melao morago.

Ka tsela e ke batla go tlhomamisetsa Batswana gore Puso ga e na maikaelelo le maikemisetso a go gotlhagotlhana le dikereke.

E bile dikereke ka mefuta ya tsone a ke tse re reng ke African Traditional Churches, protective, apostolic, a ke tse di eng, di gololesegile.

Ga ke batle ope a re Puso jaanong e senka ditsela tsa go kgoreletsa dikereke batho betsho.
Mo dikerekeng gololesegang Batswana betsho, le itse gore freedom of religion e santse e tsweletse mo lefatsheng la rona.

Se re buang ka sone fa ra re lona le le Batswana le ikele tlhoko gore mekgatlho ya lona e e farologanyeng, dibataladi, dinwamadi, dirukutlhi le batho ba ba botlhabetsi ba se Tota batho ba ba tshwanetseng go tshwenyega thata ga se Motswana fela go dira dilo ka fa molaong.
Dirukutlhi ke tsone tse di tshwanetseng go tshwenyega ka gore fa le le phuthego fela le dira tiro ya lona ga gona molato.

Fa kereke kgotsa society se dira dilo sentle ga go molato.

Ba e leng gore ba tlaa kgoreletsega ke ba ba yang go dira tiro e e seng ka fa molaong.

Kopo ya me fela ke gore a re se ka ra leba molao o… MR LESEDI: On a point of clarification.

Ke go leboge Mr Speaker, mme ke go leboge Minister.
Tota ke ne ke re ka gore ke fa re remeletse thata mo recommendations tse tsa FATF, gongwe fela ke lebe gore jaaka go na le recommendation like tsa Southern African Development Community (SADC) fa re setse re ya kwa elections, a ga o bone le tsone go tlhokega gore gongwe lengwe la malatsi re tle re di etele?

Ke raya fela e le potso mo go tsone recommendations.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MORWAENG: Bible ya re sengwe le sengwe se na le nako ya sone, sedibeng go iwa ka tsela.
Kgangkgolo mo gompienong ke go lebaganya matlho a rona le se re leng fa go sone.

The main thing is to keep the main thing.

The issue at hand that we are discussing ke recommendations tsa FATF.

Therefore, a re se ka ra ya mo go tse dingwe, re tlhome matlho mo go tsone tse.

Ka a le kalo ke ema nokeng Bill e, e ke tsayang gore e tlaa boloka tšhaba ya rona, Batswana ba se ka ba tshoga, ba se ka ba akanya gore ba ya go kgorelediwa.
Batswana ba itse gore se se diragalang fa ke go sireletsa bone, ke go ba boloka le lefatshe la rona, ke go sireletsa itsholelo ya lefatshe la rona gore leina la lone le se ka la gogoba mo seretseng.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Minister.

Honourable Mokgethi, reply to the debate.

MINISTER OF NATIONALITY, IMMIGRATION AND GENDER AFFAIRS (MS MOKGETHI): Thank you Honourable Speaker.

Ke simolole ka go 27 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) leboga batlotlegi botlhe ba ba neng ba akgela mo Molao- kakanyetsong o re o beileng fa pele ga Palamente.

Re leboge botlhe ba ba neng ba o eme nokeng.

Ke simolole ka go tlhalosa ka botlhokwa jwa molao o ka go supa gore lefatshe la Botswana ke lengwe la mafatshe a re amanang le makgotla a a tshwanang le bo FATF le ESAAMLG.

Ke supe gore ba FATF ba ne ba simolodisa recommendations di le nine.
Mo recommendations tseo, makgotla a a ikemetseng ka nosi were classified e le sectors tse go ka nnang le borai mo go tsone mo go rotloetseng dikgang tsa borukutlhi di tshwana le terrorism financing and money laundering kana go tlhatswa madi a a leswe.

Registrar of Societies o ne a supiwa e le mookamedi wa makgotla a a ikemetseng ka nosi fa tlase ga molao wa Financial Intelligence Act.
Registrar of Societies o ne a simolola tiro ya gagwe ka go sekaseka makgotla a a ikemetseng ka nosi gore a borai go le kae, mabapi le go rotloetsa dikgang tsa terrorism financing le money laundering.

Tshekatsheko ya gagwe e ne ya supa gore go boammaaruri di ka dirisiwa.

Madi a a leswe kana a a sa nnang sentle a ka feta ka makgotla a a ntseng jalo.

Tshekatsheko ya Registrar of Societies e ne e supa gore bontsi jwa makgotla a a ikemetseng ka nosi, ga a tshware dibuka tsa one ka tsela e e siameng.
Go lebega e le kgwetlho e tona mo go neng go dira gore go nne thata go bona gore tota madi a a tswa kae, a ya kae.

Re ntse re kopa makgotla a a ikemetseng ka nosi to file the returns.

Returns tseo di bo di na le bank statements, go tle go sekasekiwe gore madi a tlholega kae le gore a ya kae.

Go ne go supafala gore tota makgotla a a ikemetseng ka nosi, a ka dirisiwa botlhaswa.

Ke arabe le fa ke ka se ke ke arabe ka bongwe ka bongwe.

Ke supe tse di botlhokwa tse go nang le matshwenyego.
Ke simolole ka palo ya batho ba ba ka kwadisang mokgatlho.

Mo dikerekeng palo e e kwa tlase e e beilweng ke batho ba le 150.

Molao o, o simolotse ka ngwaga wa 2016.

O tlholegile ka 2016, e le gore go ne go le lebaka le le telele go na le matshwenyego mo Batswaneng mabapi le go runya ga dikereke tse dintsintsi.

Ba ne ba tsisa selelo sa bone mo lephateng le.

Re ne ra tsibogela selelo seo, ra se araba.


Re ne ra dira paakanyo mo molaong wa the Societies Act gore bonnyennyane jwa batho ba ba kwadisang mokgatlho, ke ba le 150.

Molao o, o ntse o bereka fela sentle.

Batswana ba o amogela.

Ga re ise re utlwe matshwenyego ape mabapi le molao o gore o beile bonnyennyane jwa batho ba le 150.

Mongwe o ne a akgela, ke dumela e le Rre Kekgonegile, gore molao o, re ntse re sa o tsamaise sentle.

O ne o tsamaya fela sentle, o diragadiwa sentle.


Go lebega re sa kgone go farologanya mo kgannyeng ya registration e e batlang bonnyenyane jwa batho ba le 150 le gore batho ba ba ka tsenelelang diphuthego, bonnyennyane jwa bone ke bokae.

Ga go na bonnyennyane jwa batho ba ba ka tsenelelang ditirelo tsa kereke, a ke ba le 20, 50 le 100.

Se re se buang ke gore... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MS MOKGETHI: Mma ke tsibogele clarification ya ga Your Honour the Vice President (VP).
Mr Speaker, ke a mosutela.

HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Point of clarification.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Clarification ya me ke gore, re tshwanetse gore Batswana re se ka ra ba itaya tsebe.

Ba ka se ka ba tloga ba re utlwa sentle.

Tona, o rile o tla ka ditshetlana tse o batlang gore o di fetole mo molaong go tsamaelana le se se neng se batliwa ke ba ESAAMLG le FATF.
Fa e le gore e tlaare o le fa, re bo re go tsaya re go isa kwa Bill yotlhe, mme go batla gore o fetole tse di sa amaneng le se o neng o kopa gore se fetolwe.

Re batla go rurifatsa gore compliance ya rona e nne yone.

Jaanong e ga e amane le moo.

A Tona o tsaya re le mo tseleng sentle?

Ke itse gore fa o ne o tsile ka ya dipalo, ba ka bo ba go boditse gore e amana jang le kgang e. By the same token, ke tsaya gore tse di amaneng, a o ne o sa bone go le botoka o bue gore ga se e ke neng ke tla ka yone?
Fa e le gore batlotlegi ba a tshwenyega, ba tlaa tla ka yone.

Kgang eo, re ne ra e tshwara thata nako e molao o neng o fetolwa, e ne e le ya moruthutha.

Ga e ka ke gompieno ya go thamathamisa mme o sa tle ka yone.

O tshwanetse o itebaganye le issues which are relevant to what you have brought here, go na le gore o bo o ya go tshwara ditemana di sele.

Ba go isa go sele, even Batswana ga ba itse gore gatwe tota ke eng molao o sa fetolwe otlhe fa e le gore go ntse jalo.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MS MOKGETHI: Thank you Mr Speaker.

His Honour the VP o bua boammaaruri gore re se ka ra itetlelela gore re itewe tsebe ke ditshetlana tse re sa tlang go itebaganya le tsone.

Ke arabe Honourable Saleshando, Leader of the Opposition (LOO) mabapi le kgang ya gore Registrar of Societies o kile a mo itsa go kwadisa mokgatlho wa sepolotiki.

Kgang eo ga go na boammaaruri mo go yone.

Ke na le file ya teng fa pele ga me.


E supa gore e ne e le dikgang di sele tse di amanang le gore a fiwe bogakolodi 28 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) mabapi le mokgatlho o a neng a re o a o kwadisa mme a gakololwa gore a boele Constitution.

Ga ke batle go tsenelela thata mo go tsone.

Se se tona ke go supa gore he was not denied registration because the Registrar does not register political parties.
Melao yotlhe e re dirileng dipaakanyo mo go yone, ke mabapi le bogakolodi jo bo neng bo tswa kwa FATF.

Re dumela gore ke tsone tse di ka kganelang mekgatlho e e ikemetseng ka nosi gore e dirisiwe botlhaswa mo dikgannyeng tsa gore go fete madi a a leswe kana ba dirisiwe for terrorism financing.

Rre Letsholathebe o ne a bua gore lephata la me le tshwanetse le tsamaye le rute setšhaba sa Botswana ka kakaretso ka dikgang tsa money laundering and terrorism financing.

Ka boammaaruri re dira fela jalo.


Ke itse gore lephata la me le ne la dira maiteko a mantsi, ke fa sekai; go kopana le baruti ba dikereke kana baeteledipele ba dikereke to sensitise them ka dikgang tsa money laundering and terrorism financing.

Re ba bontsha, mme re ba ruta gape gore kana re ba neela dikai tsa gore mekgatlho ya bone e ka dirisiwa jang botlhaswa mo dikgannyeng tse.

Ba ka dirisiwa ke dirukutlhi, mme tota go bua boammaaruri, makgotla ka bontsi ke ba ba setseng molao morago.
Ba a re thusa go hema gore melato e e se ka ya dirisiwa kana dirukutlhi di se ka tsa dirisa dikereke le mekgatlho e mengwe gore e dirisiwe botlhaswa.

Ke bone ba ba eteletseng pele ntwa kgatlhanong le borukutlhi jwa mofuta o o ntseng jaana.

Ke batla go leboga Honourable Rakgare ka fa a neng a akgela ka teng, a supa dikai ka fa sporting clubs kana football clubs kana clubs fela ka go farologana, di ka dirisiwang ka teng for money laundering and terrorism financing purposes.
Ke supe gape gore lephata la me le kwa pele mo dikgannyeng tsa go sireletsa makgotla a a ikemetseng ka nosi, segolo tse di tshwanang le football clubs, burial societies jalojalo whether ke clubs ka go farologana ga tsone.

Re ya go tswelela re dira jalo ka go sireletsa mekgatlho e re sa iphitlhe ka monwana.
Ke leboge Honourable Majaga ka fa a neng a akgela ka teng, ke dumalana le ene gore mongwe le mongwe o tshwanetse go ema ka dinao, re emeng rotlhe kana mmogo mo dikgannyeng tsa go lwantsha borukutlhi jo re bo bonang jwa terrorism financing, money laundering and counter-terrorism financing.

Jaanong tota His Honour the Vice President (VP) o setse a gakolotse gore re se ka ra ikitaya tsebe ka go akgela dikgang tse dingwe tse e leng gore ga re a di tlela gompieno, mme se setona.
Section 7 ya Molao- kakanyetso o o fa pele ga rona, maikaelelo a yone ke go sireletsa makgotla gore a se ka a dirisiwa botlhaswa.

Bangwe ba ne ba bua ka dikgang tsa section e e neng e bua ka motho yo o atlholetsweng molato mongwe.

Ke tlhalose gore go a letlelesega gore re ka hema gore motho yo o mo komiting kana mo go bidiwang gotwe to be an office bearer or the holder of office gore a se ka a nna le a criminal record.
Gongwe le gongwe go na le makgotla a mantsintsi a mo nakong e, ke condition ya gore fa o batla tiro kana fa o batla go tsenelela mokgatlho wa rona, o se ka wa nna motho yo o nang le a criminal record.
Fa e le gore motho o tswa kwa toronkong, o setse a feditse to serve sentence ya gagwe kwa toronkong, ga go reye gore motho wa teng is necessarily rehabilitated, mme standards tse re di beileng ke tsone tse di batliwang ke FATF, mme re diragatsa recommendations tsa bone mo dikgannyeng tsa mofuta o o ntseng jaana.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Minister.


MS MOKGETHI: So even if fa o ka ya kwa … (Interruptions)… mongwe le mongwe wa rona mo dikgaolong tsa rona, re na le Village Development Committees (VDCs), pele ga motho a ka nna leloko la VDC, o tshwanetse gore a ye go tsewa finger prints go bona gore a o na le a criminal record… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Lucas is asking for clarification, Minister.

MS MOKGETHI: Ke santse ke leka go tlhalosa fa; tla ke fetse ke tlaa tla ke go neela chance.
Ga go na standard se re ka se bayang go itse gore a motho has been rehabilitated kana jang, so whether you are rehabilitated or not is not the issue.

The issue here is compliance with the standards and recommendations tse di beilweng ke ba FATF gore re kgone go tswa mo grey listing, mme gore re dire molao o re ne re itebagantse le kgang ya gore re tswe mo grey listing.

Bangwe ba rona ba ne ba ngongoregela dikotlhao tse di beilweng mo molaong.
Dikotlhao tseo go beilwe maximum fine and maximum term of imprisonment, mme ke supe gore the Registrar of Societies o na le a wide discretion ya gore a lebelele gore molato o o dirilweng, a ke o monnyennyane kana o mogolo.

Jaanong ke ene yo o ka dirisang discretion ya gagwe go bona gore whether he fines you P1,000, P5,000 kana P50,000 yo o beilweng, mme a lebile molato o o dirilweng.
Ke ne ke re ke tlhalose fela jalo gore Registrar o dira tshekatsheko ya gagwe, a lebile case yone eo kana case by case assessment gore a beye dikatlholo tseo.

Tla ke arabe yo o batlang clarification.

Ga ke a bona gore ke mang Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

29 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Honourable Lucas.

MR LUCAS: Ke bidiwa Lucas comrade.


Ke ne ke re ka o ne o le mo Section 7 tota gongwe o e re tlhatswetse Tona.

Section 7 e supa gore motho ga a qualify to hold office mo societies tse fa e le gore ke Mokhanselara, Mopalamente, leloko la Ntlo ya Dikgosi kana o tshwere maemo kwa phathing e a leng kwa go yone.

A mme FATF ya rialo kana se ke se gongwe lona le neng le se akantse fela gore se ka nna botlhokwa?
Kana mme makgotla a mangwe a societies fa gongwe a bo a simolotswe ke bone bao, mme e le gore fa motho a simolotse kereke, gore o bo o re jaanong ka gore ke Mokhanselara ga a ka ke a tshwara maemo mo kerekeng, a mme o a bo o mo direla sentle?
Fela jalo gongwe ya Mopalamente le ene kana motho a le Secretary General kwa phathing ya Domkrag, a na le kereke, mme e bile e le ene a e tlhamileng go mo itsa go tshwara maemo koo, gatwe go thusa ka eng mo dikgannyeng tse re di tshwereng gompieno tsa tiriso madi botlhaswa le madi a bogodu?

Ke a leboga.

MS MOKGETHI: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ga ke itse gore a Honourable Lucas o ne a le teng pele ke tlhalosa gore ke a go sutisa amendment mo Bill yone e ya Clause 6.1 (a), 7 (a), and 9.1 (a).
Ke ne ke tlhalositse Honourable Lucas gore re ya go ntsha Clauses tse ka gore re na le maikaelelo a gore dikereke kana diphathi tsa sepolotiki di tswe fa tlase ga registration and regulation ya the Registrar of Societies.

Ka jalo, ke maikaelelo a me gore ke di ntshe.

Ke tsaya gore tlhaloso eo yotlhe is sufficient.

MR LUCAS: Thank you.

MS MOKGETHI: In the circumstances Mr Speaker, I therefore move that the Societies (Amendment) Bill, (No.

38 of 2021) be read for the second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

Order!

Order!

Honourable Members.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee-Later Date.

BILL PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke go dumedise, ke dumedise maloko a Palamente mo letsatsing la gompieno.
Mr Speaker, the object of the Bill is to amend the Proceeds and Instruments of Crime Act to strengthen it by aligning it with other anti- money laundering, counter financing of terrorism and counter proliferation financing laws.

The Proceeds and Instruments of Crime Act was enacted in 2014.

The proposal contained in the Bill will; (a) Align the Act with the Financial Intelligence Act and, (b) Enhance the freezing and seizing of proceeds and instruments of crime.
Mr Speaker, the Bill has 4 Clauses summarised as follows; Clause 2, redefines funds and property to include virtual assets and introduces a definition of virtual assets to align with other laws.

It is worth noting at current the definitions of proceeds and funds are limited in scope, and do not include other emerging technologies such as virtual assets and the use of crypto currencies.

It further defines prescribed investigator to address the … MR SPEAKER: I think we have lost you Minister.
MR MMUSI: …Clause 3 amends Section 20.2 to allow for an application for substitution of confiscated or forfeited property to extend to property of corresponding value.

Clause 4 extends for future of currency to include export declaration and non-declaration.

The current law only provides for import declaration.
Clause 5 introduces a new Section which authorises any person who is not a specified party, accountable institution and having possession of a property of a nationally listed person or structured group, or (b) property of a designated person or entity to give control and possession thereof to the receiver.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Proceeds and Instruments of Crime (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

39 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


MR KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ga ke na makgwere a mantsi le se Tona a lekang go se dira mabapi le Molao-kakanyetso o a re o beileng pele wa Proceeds and Instruments of Crime (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

39 of 2021).

30 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
39 OF 2021) Second Reading Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, kana maikaelelo a molao o ke go leka gore go tseelwe dithoto tsa maduo a bogodu.

E ka nna maduo a bogodu jwa dithoto tsa Puso, mo batho ba bonweng molato wa corruption kana economic crime, e ka nna melato e e tsamaelanang le bo diritibatsi le bo eng, ke gore dithoto fela tse di bonweng ka tsela e e sa tlhamalelang, tota maikaelelo a matona ke go sireletsa itsholelo le mmaraka wa madi.
Se sengwe ke gore kana molao o ke go leka go kgontsha ba law enforcement agencies gore dithoto tse di belaelwang gore di bonwe ka bogodu, di name di tshegeditswe go santse go lekwa go bonwa gore go ka dirwa jang kwa makgotleng a ditsheko.

Jaaka ke tlhalosa, molao o maikaelelo ke to deal le financial and economic crimes.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke dumalana le dipaakanyo tse Tona a setseng a di buile bogolo jang ya gore dithoto jaanong di akaretsa le virtual assets tse re neng re bua ka tsone mo malatsing a se kae a a fetileng.
Fa ke sena go bua jalo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke kopa gore ke dire dintlha di le pedi, ya ntlha ke bue Honourable Mmusi ka regulated institutions, ya bobedi ke batla go bua ke itebagantse le lekgotla le le tlhamiwang ke one molao o e bong la Office of the Receiver, ke tsone dintlha tse pedi tse ke neng ke batla go feta ka tsone.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, tumelo ya rona ke gore molao o le melao e mengwe fela e e lebaganyeng le corruption and economic crime, e tshwanetse go itebaganya le makalana one a re ka reng ke the regulated institutions.
Fa o ka kwalega sentle le regulations tsa kwalega sentle, le melao e mengwe ya nonotshiwa ya bo Corruption and Economic Crime Act, Central Bank Regulations le e mengwe e e tshwanang le bo Penal Code le wa Financial Intelligence Agency (FIA), e e tshwanetse gore e tlame makalana otlhe a a tsamaisiwang ka fa molaong gore a thuse mo go reng dithoto tse di bonwang ka borukutlhi go bonwe gore di a kganelwa.
In trying to explain it ke gore kana makgotla a tsamaisiwa ka fa molaong for purposes of licensing and compliance.

Ke bua ka makalana a a tshwanang le dibanka, tse e leng gore gantsintsi tsone they are already taken care of ka bone bo banking regulations le tse dingwe, money transfers, lending institutions jaaka micro lenders, car dealership, real estate companies tse di rekisang mantlo le commercial properties.
Diagente go akaretswa attorney, conveyancers le notaries, le makalana a Puso a a akaretsang bo registry.

The point I am trying to make Honourable Speaker is that, bontsi jwa batho fa ba bona madi ka bogodu, a ba a bona e le bribes tsa corruption, ba a siana ba ya go aga mantlo, ba reka dipolase ba aga mantlo mo go tsone.
Fa gongwe ba abetswe dipolase ke Goromente, ba tlaabo ba siana e le gore ba ya go fitlha madi koo ka go tlhabolola dipolase ba epa didiba, ba agelela, ba aga masaka, ba aga mantlo ba bo ba dira ditlhabololo ka go farologana gone koo.

Ba bangwe ba ya go reka dikoloi, as I shall demonstrate fa ke bua ka the Office of the Receiver.

What I am saying ke gore, an obligation must be placed on all these regulated institutions because tsotlhe di tsamaisiwa ka fa molaong.
An obligation must be placed mo go bone gore ba report suspicious transactions.

Motho a se ka a tla a tshotse kgetsi ya madi a bo a tla a tsena kwa Lesedi a re ke tlile go reka Range Rover cash.

An obligation must be placed on that regulated institution which is a car dealership, gore e report gore motho ke yo o tshwere beke ya madi.
Fa e le transaction e e dirwang ka banka, of course the bank le yone is under obligation under anti-money laundering regulations tsa Central Bank gore ba report suspicious transactions.

You see, motho o kgona go tsaya kgetsi ya madi a bo a ya kwa Mogoditshane a tsamaya a reka dikoloi tse tsa difongkong.

An incentive ya bone ba ba rekisang dikoloi tse, ba bangwe, ke se ka ka ba akaretsa botlhe, ke gore kana ba tila lekgetho, jaanong that is why o kare ba enticed gore they can accept cash.
Ke gone go tila lekgetho.

So, number one; let us place an obligation ya gore motho fa a tla ka madi a selebego se se rileng, go nne le a reporting mechanism ya gore, le fa e se gore go leletswa kwa mapodiseng gore motho ke yo re belaela gore ke legodu, but place an obligation ya gore, go nne le gongwe a registry ya go itse gore ee re na le batho ba ba kana ba ba rekileng dithoto tse di ntseng jaana ka cash.
Tota e bile, kana FATF le ESAAMLG ba ngongorega ka gore lefatshe la Botswana is largely a cash country.

Jaanong gone moo, ga re ka leka fela gore re tsene mo swiping machines, e le gore tsone transactions tseo di feta ka dibanka, di kgona to be traced, re ka ya golo gongwe.

Suspicious transactions must be well defined Honourable Mmusi and must be described fully, gore go itsege gore makalana a regulated institutions, ba itse gore a suspicious transaction ke e e lebegang e ntse jang.
Ka e bile o ka se ke o e bone fela mo go motlhofo, mme o kare gongwe fa e le defined kana described e bo e le gore e go nna botoka.

Try as much as possible when developing molao o gore go nne le heavy penalties for those who do not report suspicious transactions.

Go na le batho ba ba lebisitsweng melato, mme bangwe 31 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
39 OF 2021) Second Reading ba bone ba tsene kwa car dealerships ba reka dikoloi tsa magasigasi.

Ba tsene mo the real estate agency ba reka matlo.

They have registered properties kwa Deeds.

Jaanong ke sone se ke reng go diragetse jang, mme fa re ka nonotsha makalana a ka melao, in placing obligations tsa reporting, re ka nna le tshono ya gore jaanong this regulated institution they can serve as a buffer ya gore ba kganele a suspicious transaction.
My second point Mr Speaker is this, ka di 31st March, 2021, office ya ga Receiver, e e leng gore ke yone e e tholwang ke Molao-kakanyetso that we are dealing with gompieno, e supa gore e amogetse kana e ile kwa court ga nna… ke gore go na le 30 court orders, as at March 31, 2021.

Mo court orders tse, di le five di ne tsa felela kwa makgotleng, mme ga laolwa gore dithoto tse di busetswe kwa go ba di neng di tsewa kwa go bone.
Jaanong these 30 court orders fa o lebelela comparison e e supang gore go raya gore mathata a rona a financial and economic crimes a a gola; 2019/2020, that financial year, go ne go na le court orders di le 21; 2018/2019 di le 16; and then go tla go tsena ka 31st March 2021, we had about 30 cases.

Gongwe re re 25 re ntshe tse five that lekgotla deal with.

Jaanong Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, go lebega e le gore go na le mathata fa re lebelela ka fa dilo di tsamayang ka teng.
Ke gore fa o lebelela mo bogompienong, go supa gore, mo court orders tse 30, fa o lebelela madi a e leng gore, kana value ya assets tse e leng gore Receiver o di tsere, a re ke belaela gore dithoto tse ke tsa borukuthi, the total value ke madi a a kana ka P189 637 791.30.

So ampore P200 Million worth of assets tse e leng gore Receiver o di tshwere, a re, dithoto tse ke tse di bonweng ka tsela e e leng gore ga e a tlhamalala.

Dithoto tse ke eng?
Dithoto tse ke eng?

Ke madi, ke residential properties, mme fa o di lebelela tse, go supa gore madi e ka nna P109 338 276.00.

Go bo go nna le matlo a a ka nnang P41 Million plus.

Go bo go nna le commercial properties tse di fetang P15 Million.

Go bo go nna le industrial properties, mo go tshwanang bo warehouses le eng.

Tsone di feta P4 Million.

Go na le dikgomo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Dikgomo tse go supa gore di lopa madi a a fetang P1,5 Million.
Go na le dikoloi, Receiver o supa gore di feta madi a a kana ka P12.6 Million.

Go bo go nna le dithoto tse dingwe tse di akaretsang equipments tse di ka nnang tsa bo Agriculture le tse dingwe.

Jaanong, selo se se supa eng Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente?

Se supa gore go raya gore go na le mathata a dikgang tsa fiscal and revenue kinds.

Go na le mathata a money laundering, corruption mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Ke ikuela mo go wena o le Honourable Mmusi ka gore, ba a supa ba office ya ga Receiver gore, ga ba na batho ba ba nang le boitseanape jo bo kwa godimo ja go ka sekaseka movable assets, ke gore dithoto.

Jaanong ba supa gore gompieno ga ba na valuers for movable personal property kwa ntle ga dikoloi, ka gore tsone o kgona gore o ye kwa Roads kana go na le ba bangwe ba ba kgonang to value them.

Go setse go na le mathata, mo gongwe mo ke estimated values, jaaka tse tsa bo dikgomo.
Kana leruo fela le e leng gore office ya Receiver o le tshwere, ke ne ke bua ka value ya lone, mme palo ya lone as at 31st March 2021, e ne e le 377 animals, tse di mo diatleng tsa ga Receiver, a di tlhatlhetse mo polaseng.

Kana gone mo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, go a tlhokafala gore a re nonotsheng lekgotla le la the Office of the Receiver, gore Receiver a kgone go itse the full value ya dithoto tse e leng gore o di tshwere.
E nngwe ke kgang ya gore, office e go supega e le gore ga e na law enforcement officers ba e leng gore…tota ba ikaegile thata ka makalana a mangwe a Puso, gore e nne bone that executes court orders.

Jaanong gone mo ba re, kana go ka felela go dira gore dithoto tse ba di belaelang gore di ka tswa di bonwe ka bogodu, kana le lekgotla le rurifaditse gore di bonwe ka bogodu, go raya gore di ka nna tsa fitlhiwa kana tsa isiwa golo gongwe.
Fa e le gore bone ba tswelela ba sena law enforcement officers gore ba ba thuse.

E nngwe ke yone ya gore, kana go na le kgwetlho ya gore Receiver ke ntse ke supa gore a re o na le matlo a a tshwereng a re a ka tswa a rekilwe ka ntata ya bogodu le melato e mengwe.
So, jaanong ba re, fela jaaka ba supa gore ntlo e re a e belaela gore e ka tswa e bonwe ka bogodu kana e le gore le lekgotla gongwe le santse le rile, namang le e tshegeditse, mathata a matona e nna gore, ba gongwe e neng e le tenants, kana bahirisi moo ba felela ba siya jaanong ba sa batle gore ba amane le matlo a mohuta oo.

Jaanong go bo go raya gore go tsala dikgwetlho tsa gore fa e le matlo e a ntseng jalo go felela go nna le gore matlo ao a felela a sena batho.
Fa a sena batho ga re go diragala jang; Receiver should hire security se kate matlo ao.

Ke dingwe tsa dikgwetlho tse ba nang le tsone, e re fa o tlisa budget fa Honourable Mmusi, e nne nngwe ya dilo tse o di etseng tlhoko thata.

Matlo a e leng gore ga a fela mme gongwe motho o ne a aga ka bribe, e bo jaanong go felela e le gore gongwe he or she is reported, lekgotla le lone le felela le re nnyaa, namang le tshegeditse dithoto tseo, matlo a go nna jalo a nna prone to vandalism.
Kana vandalism go raya gore e kgotlela bosupi.

Kwa ntle ga go kgotlela bosupi a diga value ya property eo.

32 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading Ke ya kwa point e nngwe, fa ke santse ke bereka kwa DCEC, go ne go na le a storage facility se se neng se tshwara dithoto tsa mohuta o.

Storage se se supa gore se setse se tletse.


Ke gore go supa gore borukuthi, ke tsaya gore fa le ne le lebeletse pampiri ya Gazette e e neng e rurifatsa gore, Transparency International ya re re ntse re wela kwa tlase re le lefatshe le Botswana fa go lebelelwa mo sekaleng sa tshenyetso-setšhaba le go gopela itsholelo.

Fa o lebelela warehouse e e kwa DCEC e, ga gona space sa gore dithoto tse di belaelwang gore ke tsa bogodu ga gona le fa di tsenang teng.
Jaanong, a e re fa o tlisa budget e bo e le gore ke nngwe ya dikgang tse o di lebeletseng.

Kgang ya diphologolo tse di tshwerweng ke the Office of the Receiver, kana gompieno fa re bua, bona gore mo financial year e ya 2020/2021, ba dirisitse madi a a kana ka P264 052.00 mo dijong le melemo ya leruo le ba le tshegeditseng.

O ka bona gore office e e tshwaragane le bothata jo bo ntseng jang.
they tsa Palamente, E nngwe ke yone ya gore kana ba e leng gore ke bone ba palonyana e se kae ya ba e leng gore they execute Court Orders ya batho ba Office ya ga the Receiver, le bone fa gongwe o fitlhela ba na le mathata a security ka gore fa o lebelela Court Orders tse dingwe Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo leave restrained property in the hands of the suspects.

Jaanong the Receiver o tshwanetse gore a nne a dira mo gotweng ke regular inspections go bona gore a mme property e it does not dissipate in value.
Jaanong mme gone mo it exposes officers tse tsa Office ya ga the Receiver mo e leng gore ba ka nna ba felela ba na le mathata a a tlhatlaganeng.

Jaanong Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke re a re emeng ka dinao kwa Office yone e ya ga the Receiver re e nonotshe, re bone gore re ka e thusa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Se sengwe ke gore maabane ke ne ke bua ka gore kana Puso e na le an obligation under Constitution le international instruments gore batho le fa ba ka bo ba ne ba belaelwa, ditshwanelo tsa bone di tshwanetse gore di sale di ntse di le teng.

Re tshwanetse gore re itse gore Molaomotheo o a letla gore motho o ka nna le dithoto mme e bile dithoto tsa gagwe di ka sireletsega.
Jaanong a re se ka ra bona abuse ya melao mo e leng gore jaanong dithoto tsa batho le fa e le gore ga go na reasonable suspicion, motho o fitlhela e le gore jaanong dithoto tsa gagwe gongwe di tshegeditswe kana gatwe di belaelwa gore e ka nna tsa bogodu.

Ke buisiwa se ke eng?


Ke buisiwa se ke motseletsele wa dikgetsi tse di ntseng di latlhegela Puso e le gore e bile Baatlhodi le bo Mmakaseterata ba e tla ba supa ngongorego ya gore kante jaanong golo fa go lebega e le gore batho ba a tshwarwa ba bo ba lebisiwa molato (charged) go ise go tlhotlhomisiwe, go bo go tla go kopiwa gore nnyaa mme re santse re ya go tlhotlhomisa.

E le gore the sequencing ya teng ke yone e e leng gore e a belaesega mme e bile ga e jese diwelang.
Go tla jang gore e bo e le gore go iwa court go ise go bonwe bosupi jo bo lebanyeng?

As I say, this is not to contradict or to the negate my earlier point ya gore tota mme kana the purpose ya molao o o tshwanang le Proceeds and Instruments of Crime ke gone go leka go kgoreletsa during the process yone ya commission of crime kana acquisition ya dithoto tse e leng gore ga di a bonwa ka fa molaong.
Le gore tse di setseng di bonwe e le proceeds of especially serious crime di ka gapiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Honourable Mmusi, I also have a suggestion ya gore when you forfeit some of the assets to the state, especially tse e leng gore tsone they did not initially belong to the state, ke gore tse e leng gore e ne e se gore ke tsa ga Goromente, tse di sa amaneng le corruption, gongwe motho a ne a rekisa drugs e bo e le gore o nna le property and then the state e bo e forfeit properties tsone tseo, leka gore madi a teng fela jaaka mapodise ba dirisa madi a traffic fines gore ba leke gore ba lwantshe borukutlhi, ba reke dikoloi le dithoto tse dingwe tse di ka ba kgontshang tiro, Office ya the Receiver le yone gongwe o e simolole ka a percentage ya gore ba itsholetse mo makalaneng a mangwe a lone lekgotla le fa ba tlhaelang teng ka madi one a a e leng gore are assets forfeited to the state.
Gore fa e le gore dithoto tse di a tsewa di tseelwa dirukutlhi di bo di felela di rekisiwa go bo go bonwa madi, madi a teng mangwe a one a dirisiwe mo lekgotleng lone le la the Receiver go leka go ba nonotsha gore ba nne le staff se e leng gore they are trained valuers, who can execute court orders and gongwe se ka kgona to enhance security sa bone fa ba ntse ba inspect dithoto tse di mo custody ya suspects.
Fa ke buile jalo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ga go lebege ke na le makgwere a a kalokalo mo molaong o. Ke dumela gore let us try and deprive criminals of benefits and rewards tse ba di bonyeng mo borukutlhing.

A re lekeng gore re khutshwafatse kana re interfere le gore dirukutlhi ba felele ba bone property ka tsela e e seng yone.

A re lekeng gone gore re dire le financial and economic crimes, especially money laundering.
Otherwise re tlaa tswelela re le mo grey list e le gore it interferes with how we run the economy.

33 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading Re tlaa tswelela re le mo blacklist jwa bo European Union (EU) e le gore it interferes with international transactions tse di tsenyang lefatshe la Botswana.

Fa ke buile jalo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke lebogela sebaka se o se nneileng.
MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR MOAGI): Ke go leboge Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke lebogele sebaka se.

Ke dumedise Batswana ka kakaretso le kwa ga Malete.

Le nna ke tshwaele kwa ntlheng fela ke support Molao-kakanyetso o wa Proceeds and Instruments of Crime.
Tota o tlhamaletse, bogolo thata jang ka gore ke go baakanya fale le fale fa e leng gore re ikgolaganya kana re tsepama le go tsamaisa melawana e re ntseng re e bolelelwa ya bo anti money laundering, counter financing of terrorism le counter proliferation financing laws.

Ke itumelela thata ditshetlana tse ke bonang di tsile fa.
Ke re gongwe re ka di tshwaela ka tsela e e ntseng jaana ka gore kwa ntlheng Tona o re beile pele definitions dingwe tse di neng di atolosa ka fa go ntseng go tlhaela ka teng, a atolosa funds le proceeds tse a neng a supa gore kana di ka raya dilo tse dintsi, bogolo jang ka gore go tsene madi a mašha a a tlileng a bo cryptocurrency, bo virtual assets, jalojalo.
Dilo tse di bo di nkgoromeletsa kwa go reng mme kana jaanong go setse go duelwa le ka ditsela tse di farologanyeng e bile gongwe go duelwa Goromente.

Ke bo ke itebaganya le ntlha e e supang go kokoanya madi a ga Goromente jaaka re itse gore lekalana le tshwana le la Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS) ke lone le re le dirisang gantsi thata bogolo thata jang fa dithoto di tsena di tswa ka kwa ntle le to collect makgetho ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Ke tlaa fa gongwe sekai ka gore re na le dithoto tse di gorogang di tswa kwa ntle.

Mma re tseye sekai; leokwane, metlakase le digase.

O bo o fitlhela e le gore these are regulated products.

Ke didirisiwa tse di ka fa molaong, ditlhwatlhwa tsa teng di bewa sentle, di na le regulator ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Mo go rayang gore go na le gore mo teng ga tlhwatlhwa e e leng gore e a bo e lefiwa mo go wena o le modirisi, a consumer, go na le levies that are levied gone foo.
Jaanong fa o ka bona a regulatory product e tshwana le leokwane e re itseng gore e tshwanetse gore e bo e tsamaya kwa go P12 something, a bo o bona yo mongwe a go raya a re ke ka go e neela ka bokana, golo moo o tshwanetse gore o tsenwe ke tsebetsebe o ipotse gore e le gore jaanong yo ene a leng cheap mo leokwaneng le go tswa kae golo mo?

O bo o fitlhela e le gore dilo tsega o ka ke wa leba ene yo o fela yo o dirang le ene.

Kana le ene o tsaya dilo tse golo gongwe.


O bo o fitlhela e le gore ke chain fela ya dilo tse e leng gore gongwe ga di dirwe ka fa thulaganyong e e siameng.

Jaanong ke re melawana e e re thusa gore re tlhotlhomise dilo tse ka kakaretso gore re tle re bone gore a madi a a neng a tshwanetse a ka bo a phuthiwa ao a tsena sentle ka kwano.
Kana golo mo go ka raya gore fa o bona motho gongwe a sa lefe tlhwatlhwa e re e solofetseng, go ka tswa e le borukutlhi jo bo diragalang ka kwa thoko jo e leng gore kgabagare bo a go babalela wena o le consumer, o le lefatshe, madi a bo a sa tsene sentle mo sepatšheng sa lefatshe, ditlhabololo di bo di sa kgone go goroga.

Metsi a re a tlhokang kwa bo Disaneng a bo a sa kgone go goroga.
Jaanong ke sone se ke reng sengwe le sengwe se e leng gore se a bo se dirwa e le a regulated product, re tshwanetse ra netefatsa gore a tlhwatlhwa e e beilweng, Goromente o kgona gore a e collect ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ke e tshwantsha gape le fa batho ba sa duele lekgetho.
Re a itse gore go na le ba gongwe ba kokotletsang madi ba a baya mo matlong a bone, ba sa ntshe receipts, gongwe ba sa dirise swiping machines mme e le business fela e tona e e tshethemelwang ke batho, e go tshwanetsweng gore re ka bo re bona go na le receipts le gore go bankiwe, gotweng, mme re senke re bona batho ba ba ntseng jaana.

Kana go raya gore ke bone batho ba e leng gore kgabagare ba tsaya thoto e ya madi eo ba bo ba tshela molelwane ka yone ba a isa kwa ba a isang teng.
Golo mo ke gone mo go dutlisiang gore lefatshe le se ka la ya le gone.

Ba ba ba thusang gore ba tseye madi a go sa bonale, ke proceeds tse re ka di supang gore ke tsa crime ka gore sengwe ga se dirwe.

Sengwe seo ke eng?

Ke go duela lekgetho le le tshwanetseng gore le duelwe mo lefatsheng.

Go raya gore le a bo le sa duelwe ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Jaanong dilo tse di tshwanetse gore di tsamaelane, di gokagane gore re bone gore a tota lekgetho le duelwa sentle, are we declaring sengwe le sengwe se se tshwanetseng to be declared mo lefatsheng la rona.

Ke e nyalanya le point e e supang gore nnyaa jaanong o tlaa baakanya fa e leng gore ga o sa tlhole o tlaa tlhoka to declare fela madi fa e le gore o a tlisa mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Le fa o a ntsha, o tshwanetse to declare.


Golo moo go botlhokwa ka gore jaanong o tlaa dira le batho, e bo e le gore wa re nnyaa, nna ke tlaa tla ke a rwele ka dikgwatlha, re tlaa tla re a kgaogana re le ka koo.

Mo go 34 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
39 OF 2021) Second Reading rayang gore jaanong lefatshe le tlaabo le latlhegetswe ke madi a e leng gore o tlaabo o a ntsha ao mme a ntse a tswa kwa go bone batho ba e leng gore ba a bo ba sa dire dilo tse e leng gore di letlelesegile ka fa thulaganyong ya madi le go collect ga ga Goromente.
Ke itumelela kgang e e reng ‘not only customs officers.’ Jaanong o tsenya le revenue officers, ke gore mongwe le mongwe yo o tsayang madi, a bo a kgona gore le ene o ka investigate ka gore mo gongwe go na le selo sa gotwe nnyaa kana eo mandate ke ya bo semangmang ke ya bo semangmang.

Teng fela foo, that is where o bonang gore go na le go dutla moteng, and go dutla mo kana go a bo go na le batho ba e leng gore jaanong ba ya go tsena ka ba go tweng ga se prescribed investigators, ba bo ba ba fetisa.
Go ba fetisa moo ke gone jaaka e le gore go na le porosity ya tse e leng gore di ka bo di rulaganyetsa kana di thusa lefatshe in terms of funds and proceeds.

So we need to plug that gap.

Ke yone e e leng gore ke itumelela gore revenue officers tsotlhe fela a di kgone gore di kwa di tlhotlhomise, e se ka ya re sengwe le sengwe, bogolo jang jaaka re lebile melolwane ya rona, e bo gotwe re lebeletse customs officer fela.
Mo go rayang gore fa customs officer a santse a ka bo a tshwere ke sengwe, mongwe o ka feta, a bo a ya go feta kwa go immigration officer or any other revenue collector in that space.

A bo a kgona go tšhwebela ka gore ga se ka fa ene a neetsweng tiro ka teng.

Point e nngwe e ke e lebileng Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke e e supang property freezing.
Go botlhokwa bagaetsho ka gore go le gantsi fela fa e le gore tlhotlhomiso e santse e tsene, mongwe o ka kgona gore a nne fa a bo a kgona go botsolotswa, a bo a kgona gore a re bolelele sentle gore se se tlhokwang se fa kae.

Ke bua jaana ka gore o tlaa bona mo gongwe in no time go runtse fela e bo e le gore motho ke yo o na le se le se mme a sa kgone to account gore tota a re o se tsaya fa kae.
Dilo tse ke tse e leng gore ba bangwe a ke di party, society a ke eng jaaka re ntse re bolela mo Bills tse di neng di fetsa tse, ba ka tsena ka batho ba go nna jaana, ba mo neela dithoto tse tse e leng gore ba ya go di tsaya kana ba tsaya proceeds tsa teng ka kwa morago.

Dilo tse di bo di tla di tswelela di ntse di dira tse di maswe tse di tshwanang le bo terrorism le tse dingwe gape tse e leng gore di ka menola lefatshe, tsa tlisa instability mo lefatsheng.
So dilo tse fa e le gore re na le pelaelo nngwe, fa go santse go tlhotlhomisiwa, go tshwanelwa ke gone gore go emise dilo tse gore go tle go bonwe gore o account jang for dilo tseo, whether you are an institution or you are an individual jaaka go e tle go buiwe gotwe a natural listed person.

So dilo tse ke tsone tse e leng gore ke itumelela Molao-kakanyetso o, ke re a di tsene mo teng gore di tle di kgone gore di femele lefatshe ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Go botlhokwa rra jaaka bangwe bakaulengwe ba setse ba buile gore thuto e tshwanetse go tsena mo bathong ba rona.

O fitlhela e le gore re beile batho mo ditirong tse di riling, mme ga re a ba neela dithata tsotlhe tsa gore ba itse gore ba tshwanetse go leba eng, ba se ka ba leba eng se e leng gore se ka thusa gore go se ka ga nna le yone that porosity ya gore dilo di fete ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

So re tshwanetse gore re thuse batho.


Kwa melolwaneng kwa, tsotlhe tse di tlhokafalang tsa detection, di nne teng, batho ba rutuntshiwe.

Le dintša fa e le gore di tshwanetse gore di nne teng, a di nne teng mo molelwaneng mongwe le mongwe.

Go se ka gatwe nnyaa molelwane o ga se o o busy ka gore se re se itemogetseng ke gore batho ba ba nang le metsametsano, ba tsamaya ka melolwane e mebotlana.

O bo o fitlhela e le gore go na le batho ba ka nna babedi ba ba sa neelwang dithata dipe tsa go detect sepe.
Dilo tse di tshwanang le bo ditagi le madi a e leng gore a batla go ntshiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, a bo a tswa ka yone melolwane e e ntseng jalo.

Jaanong ke re there is a need gore tota this human capital development e nne teng, mme le bone batho fela ka kakaretso, ba rutwe kwa Dikgotleng tsa rona le kae kwa e leng gore re ka nna teng gore re kgone go hema dikgang tse di ntseng jaana.

Le yone cash jaaka bakaulengwe ba setse ba buile, tota a re lebeng golo fa.
Ke itse gore kwa dibankeng malatsi a fa o tla ka madi fela a ntse jalo, o tshwanelwa ke gore o kwale gore madi ao ke a proceeds dife.

A o ne o rekisa dikgomo, a o ne o rekisa thobo ya masimo kgotsa o ne o rekisa eng, ke dilo tse e leng gore di a bolelwa, o bo o kgona gore jaanong o di kwale.
Fa ba belaela, ba tsaya tsotlhe tsa gago tse e leng gore e tlaa re kgabagare o bo o lelediwa ke ba ba maleba gore o tle o tlhalose gore kana o ne o baya thoto ya madi kwa bankeng kgantele, mme ga o a supa gore o e tsaya kae.

Ke dumela ke re le jaaka go na le madi a o ka kgonang go a tsenya ka Automated Teller Machines (ATM) le gone fela go ntse jalo, go nne le tsone those checks and balances gore batho ba se ka ba tsenya madi ka tsela e e sa tlhaloganyesegeng.
Dilo tse ke tsone tse e leng gore tota fela ka bokhutshwane jo bo kalo, ke a di itumelela mo Molao-kakanyetsong o, mme e bile ke dumela ke re di tlaa thusa gape ka gore there is what is called a civil penalty order e e leng gore Goromente jaaka mo gongwe a kolotwa ke rona re le batho, dikompone 35 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
39 OF 2021) Second Reading kgotsa ke eng, ba ka kgona gore ba tlise order e e leng gore e ka kgona gore jaanong e tseye e ye to recover madi a ga Goromente mme a boele mo teng.

Dilo tse kana di dira jaana gore go se ka ga ba ga nna le fa e le sepe se se ka nnang botlhabetsi mo tsamaisong ya Puso se e leng gore se ka re babalela re le mo Pusong ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, mme se thuse Motswana kwa gae gore a se ka a latlhegelwa mme ditlamelo tsa gagwe a di bona.
Ke sone re ke reng ke ne ke rata go tshwaela mo go tsone dintlha tse pedi tseo, mme ke rotloetse one Molao- kakanyetso o Bill No.39 of 2021.

Ga ke ne ke tsaya nako e ntsi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke leboga ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Thank you.

MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke go dumedise le bakaulengwe botlhe mo Palamenteng.

Le Barolong ke a le dumedisa kwa gae.


Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke ema fa ke ema molao o nokeng.

Tota e bile ga go na puo e ntsi, ke go o ema nokeng fela, mme ke re a re dumalaneng gore fa re le bontlha bongwe jwa lebopo, re le Botswana, re tshwanetse gore re tsamaisane le mafatshe a mangwe ka go dira dilo ka fa di tlaa re siamelang rotlhe ka teng.
E tle e re fa e le gore go na le sengwe se o ka reng e re ntswa re le bontlha bongwe jwa lebopo, mafatshefatshe, e re e kare se tlaa re kgoreletsa ka tsamaiso le ngwao ya rona, re lebe gore a re fetola tsamaiso gore se re siamele.

Kana fa e se go fetola tsamaiso, re bona gore tsamaiso ya rona e siame, re tshwanetse ra dira mo go tweng reservation fa re dumalana ka dilo tse.

Mo ditsamaisong tse dingwe, o fitlhela e le gore reservation ga se selo se e leng gore ke bontlha bongwe jwa ditumelano.
O fitlhela e le gore bontsi jwa nako re a patelesega gore re dire jalo.

Melao e ke mengwe ya yone eo, fa re patelesegang teng, mo o fitlhelang e le gore we are between a rock and a hard place go leka to balance dilo tse.

E bile gape ke dumalana gore e re ntswa re patelesega and compelled to be part of that process, there must be checks and balances.

Ga go na fa go ka itaolelwang fela, selo seo re tshwanetse ra se dumalana.
Selo sa bobedi, a re dumelaneng gore go nna bontlha bongwe jwa tsamaiso e ya mafatshefatshe go re thusitse gore re lebe molao mengwe e e ntseng e le teng gore e baakanngwe, re bo re tle ka e mesha e e leng gore e tlaa thusa gore re nne an up-to-date and abreast country in the community of nations gore re kgone go dira dilo tse di tlaa tokafatsang matshelo a rona le tse di tlaa re sireletsang.

Selo se re tshwanetse ra se lemoga gore maikaelelo a melao e ke eng.
Selo sa boraro se re tshwanetseng go se amogela ke gore, a re dumalaneng gore melao e re e buang gompieno e, maikaelelo ke go lwantsha mmaba yo re sa mmoneng le ka matlho.

A re itse gore mmaba o is very smart, swift and very ruthless.

Fa a ka fitlhela melao ya rona e reketla a ikepela gone foo, e tlaa re fa re ya go mo lemoga, a bo a setse a tsamaya kgakala tshenyo ya gagwe e le ntsi e bile a re diretse mathata a go tlaa tsayang lebaka gore re baakanye se a se dirileng.
Ke sone se ke itumelelang Honourable Keorapetse when he acknowledges that melao e e a bereka ka gore what he has just acknowledge ke gore in less than four years, 2018 up to now, the receiver who is a product of these laws has worked so hard e bile o dirile tiro e a dumalanang gore o tshwanetse go thusiwa.
Ke sone se ke reng go a tlama e bile go a tshwanela gore melao e re e dumalane mme re ntse re tla re leba dingwe tse re ka di buisanyang le ba bangwe ba mafatshefatshe gore fa o kareng checks and balances ga di yo sentle, re dumalane gore di nne teng ka gore e re ntswa re lwantsha mmaba, ga re a tshwanela gore re nne le kgang ya gore the governance processes di tsewe lolea e nne e kete di a latlhalelwa fela ka gore mmaba ke yole o fale.
Gone ka boammaaruri fa re le mo ntweng e e masisi e e tseneletseng jaaka e, go na le dilo dingwe tse di tleng di ame tsamaiso ya puso ya batho ka batho le ka fa re dirang dilo ka teng on day to day basis.

Jaanong molao o re o itebagantseng o, Proceeds and Instruments of Crime o tlhamaletse.

Mo gae mo ke ne ke eletsa gore e re fa re o pasa jaana, re bo re lebile dilo dingwe tse di re tshwenyang.
Some years back re le bontlha bongwe jwa the global community, re ne ra tewa gatwe to facilitate global trading and global flow of goods and services and what have you.

Re tshwanetse ra nna le free exchange rates, free repatriation of profit and there must be limitations on the thresholds that can be expatriated go ya kwa ntle ga lefatshe.

These things di boile jaanong di a re loma ka gore fa re dira jalo fa go simolola FATF bo ESAAMLG, go bo gotwe we are havens of tax evasion and the like.
Jaanong re tshwanetse ra boa ra ipaakanya ra baakanya golo foo, ra bo ra leba le dilo dingwe.

Even our own internal trade ra e baakanya gore batho ba se ka ba tsamaya ba rwele matshebetshebe a madi go sa itsewe kwa ba a tsayang teng jaaka Honourable Moagi le Honourable Keorapetse ba ne ba bua.

Go na le dishopo tse dingwe mo mafelong a rona a Botswana, mo e leng gore fa o tla ka karata o re o a swipe, ba go raya ba re they do only accept cash.
The question is why have we allowed them for so long gore 36 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading ba dire dilo tsa go nna jalo ka gore that is the beginning of the root cause ya problem ya money laundering?

Fa e le gore ra re ba ntshe madi a bone a e leng profit ba a ise kwa magabone, ba a ntshang jang e le hard cash?
Kana they have to wire these monies through the international transactions system e e leng gore e teng.

Jaanong these are the things tse ke reng melao e e re thusa gore re lebe dilo tse, re bo re kgone to enforce them ka tsela e e leng gore ga re na go tloga re bidiwa the tax havens.

Mapolotiki ga re na go tloga re bidiwa magodu.


Ke lapisitswe ke go bidiwa legodu ke sa utswela ope sepe ka ntata ya gore dilo tse fa di diragala, people may come up with perceptions tsa gore Government facilitates, o a letla gore dilo tse di nne.

So melao e Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, re tshwanetse go gagamatsa ka gore ba ba dirang jalo re tlaa ba kapa.
Bontsi jwa Batswana tota ga ba tlhaloganye gore gatwe melao e e dira eng, re tshwanetse re ba tlhalosetse gore re na le disinyi mo gareng ga rona ba ba re utswelang meamuso le ditsompelo, re batla go ba gagamatsa diphogwana gore ba se ka ba dira jalo.

Melao e mme e tshwanetse gore e bo e le bogale, motho a itse gore fa re ka mo kapa o tlaa di gama a sa di tlhapela.
Jaanong Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ka bokhutshwane jo bo kalo ke ne ke re ke itumetse thata go utlwa Honourable Keorapetse acknowledging gore these laws are effective.

So ke rapela gore le e e tlang melao re se ka ra tsaya lebaka mo go yone ka gore there is proof and acknowledgement.

Ke a leboga Motsamaiasa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, I move accordingly.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Morolong.

Honourable Ambassador Kapinga.

MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you very much Mr Speaker.
Le nna gongwe ke sale morago fa Honourable Molale a fetileng teng, ke dumedise ba kwa Chukumuchu, Beetsha le Gudigwa.

Ke ne ke re ke latlhele ka bokhutshwanyane fela Mr Speaker, mo Molao-kakanyetsong o ke re kana maikaelelo a matona a molao o wa Proceeds and Instruments of Crime, ke go tlhomamisa gore borukutlhi ga bo busetse, mo ka Sekgoa gotweng crime should not pay.

Ka jalo ga gona ka fa ke ka tlhokang go ema nokeng molao o o ntseng jaana.
Re tshwanetse go lemoga dingwe fa re ntse re dirisa molao o Mr Speaker.

In the past re ne re gatelela thata mo borukutlhing jwa bo go rekisa metokwane jaana, jwa robbery le borukutlhi jo bongwe jo bo bonwang ke mang le mang ka matlho.

Re bo re sa tsenye leitlho le le tseneletseng mo go se se bidiwang gotwe white collar and organised crime.
Jaanong ke bo ke gakolole Minister gore a lemoge e bile a nne a ntse a lemoga selo se gore borukutlhi jo bo tsileng go dira lefatshe le, ka fa tebong ya me ke white collar crime, e e leng gore ga e dirwe ke mongwe le mongwe mo seterateng, go na le beng ba yone ba e ba busetsang.

Gompieno ba agile matlo a a seng kana ka sepe, ba na le dipolase, le kwa dipolaseng tota go na le double storey tsa matlo.
Ke gone kwa go tshwanetseng gore o lebelele teng Honourable Minister, ke bone ba ba digang itsholelo ya lefatshe le, re bo re sokola jaaka re sokola jaana.

Sa bobedi se ke neng ke batla go se go gakolola Minister ke gore go dira molao fela ka bogone is not enough.

Go botlhokwa gore o le Tona jaana o bo o tlhomamisa gore the organisational infrastructure e e yang go dirisiwa go tlhomamisa gore molao o o a dirisiwa e teng.
Mo mafatsheng a mangwe fa o ntse o lebeletse o utlwa go buiwa ka bo asset forfeiture units.

Gongwe dikgang tsa teng di a ntlola Honourable Minister ga di goroge kwa go nna mme ga ke ise ke utlwe gore mo sepodiseng sa Botswana kgotsa mo lefatsheng la Botswana, go tlhamilwe a unit that specialises in asset investigation and forfeiture.
Lekalana le le itebagantseng le go tlhotlhomisa, go batlisisa, go sala morago, go epolola fa go fitlhilweng teng dithoto tse di bonweng ka borukutlhi, le bo le diragatsa molao gore dithoto tseo di gapiwe.

Fa re ka dira ka molao o fela go bo go sa diriwe lone lekalana leo, go tsentswe batho mo teng ba ba rutetsweng tiro eo, ba ba nang le dithutego tse di lekaneng go ka tsamaisa boikarabelo jo bo ntseng jalo, ga gona gope fa re tlaa yang teng Mr Speaker.
Re tlaa bona banna ba ntse ba huma ka ditsela kgotsa le ka methale e re sa e tlhaloganyeng gore naare khumo e e kanakana, motho yo o e tsaya kae.

Re sa kgone go ba tseela dikgato tse di tshwanetseng ka gore ga re kgone go epolola dilo tse di tshwanetseng gore di epololwe, ga re na bone batho bao ba re ba rutileng mo go tseneletseng gore ba tlhotlhomise dilo tsa go nna jaana, ba bo ba ya go di bona, ba bo ba di gapa ka tsamaiso ya molao.
Sa boraro Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re kana molao o fa ke o badile sentle fa ke santse ke o gakologelwa sentle, even international conventions di rotloetsa selo se gotweng civil forfeiture.

Civil forfeiture e raya gore you do not have to subject a person.

Ke gore ga o a tshwanela gore o emele pele gore a sekele molato wa borukutlhi, a bo a bonwa molato pele, ke gone o bo o ka mo gapela dilo tseo.

37 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
39 OF 2021) Second Reading Civil forfeiture e go letlelela jalo gore o supe dilwana tse motho a nang le tsone, di belaesega a di bone ka mokgwa o e seng one.

Gape go belaelwa e le proceeds of crime.

Ga go tlhokafale gore go nne le a criminal conviction gore motho a bo a gapelwa jalo.

Ke dumela gore fa go le thata gore re sekise batho ba re itseng gore ba gopela itsholelo ya lefatshe la Botswana kwa Dikgotleng in a criminal trial, let us resort more and more to civil forfeiture.
Ke dumela gore ga e thata, e bile ga e bokete jaaka go mo sekisetsa molato wa borukutlhi.

Ke dumela gore go motlhofo go supa gore motho ke yo o kgobokantse dithoto ka tsela e e gakgamatsang mo sebakeng se se khutshwane.

A sa kgone go supa gore dithoto tse madi a a neng a di di bona ka one, o ne a tsaya kae.

It is very easy to prove… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR KAPINGA: …ke rotloetse Tona gore let us focus more on this approach.
ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Thank you Mr Speaker.

O ne o bua ka civil forfeiture review; a o raya gore mo Botswana ga e diriwe fa o dira living beyond your means?

Go na le batho ba ba e tleng ba tlhotlhomisiwe go bonwa fela a rwele dilo di le dintsi.

A bo a tlhotlhomisiwa dilo tse di bo di tsewa gotwe living beyond their means fa e le gore ga ba tlhalose gore di tswa kae.

Ga se yone eo?

MR KAPINGA: Ee rra.

Ke yone eo.


Se ke se buang ke gore, ga ke kgotsofalele bokete jo re e dirisang ka teng.

Ka observation ya me, ga re e dirise ka bokete jo re neng re ka e dirisa ka teng.

Re gapa dilo tse e leng gore ga di a bonwa ka fa mokgweng, di bonwe ka maduo a borukutlhi.

Sa bofelo se ke batlang go bua ka sone ke gore, fa re bua ka asset forfeiture and confiscation, e bile Honourable Keorapetse o fetile ka yone, it is just a matter of underscoring it.
Go botlhokwa gore the value of the seized assets, boleng jwa tsone e se ka ya wela kwa tlase mo diatleng tsa ba molao.

E wela kwa tlase ka mabaka a mangwe a a builweng ke Honourable Keorapetse a gore ntlo e tlaabo e gapiwa, go tswa foo go bo go sena ope yo o e tlhokomelang e bo e thubiwa or being vandalised.

Dikoloi di tlaabo di gapiwa, di bo di bewa mo letsatsing di nna foo dingwaga go santse go gogiwa maoto gore go tlaa dirwa jang ka tsone.
Fa e le dikgomo, di kgona go swa ka dipalo tse di kwa godimo, go le bonya gore go gorogiwe kwa seemong se e leng gore dilo tse di ka rekisiwa, madi a tsena mo letloleng la ga Goromente.

Go botlhokwa thata gore dithoto tse re di gapang tse, tlhwatlhwa ya tsone e somarelwe (preserved) gore at the end of the day, Goromente a bone sengwe mo dithotong tse.

Government should be able to fund the operations tsa mapodise le tse dingwe tse di neng di ka se ka tsa bona madi a a lekaneng from budget ya ga Goromente.
Ka mafoko a le kalo Mr Speaker, ke batla go gatelela gore a re diriseng civil forfeiture more than we have used it before.

A re tlhomamiseng gore dilwana tse di gapilweng di a tlhokomelesega gore tlhwatlhwa ya tsone e se ka ya wela kwa tlase.

Kamoso e bo e le gore Goromente ga a boelwe ke sepe mme a sentse madi a se kana ka sepe go tlhotlhomisa kana go batla go epolola dilo tseo go fitlhela a bo a ya go di bona.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Member.


ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Ke go dumedise rraetsho mo ngwageng o o mosha.

Ke boe ke dumedise le Batswana botlhe segolo jang ba Boteti East go simolola kwa Mmeya, Mokubilo, Makgaba, Mosu, Mmatshumo, Khwee, o feta ka masimo ale a rona go tsena motse o motona mo Boteti wa Letlhakane.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le kwa Ranaka.

MR LELATISITSWE: Bagaetsho, ngwaga o mosha ke oo le ba Ranaka ke a ba dumedisa.
Ke a leboga gore ke bo ke filwe sebakanyana sa go akgela mo paakanyong molao o e leng gore re fa, letsatsi le.

Paakanyo molao e ntse e le teng gale.

Re baakanya molao o wa go tseela batho dithoto tse ba di boneng ka tshenyetso- setšhaba.

Re o baakanya gore o tsamaelane le melao e re e bileditsweng fa ka Palamente e ya Tshoganetso mo letsatsi le.

Ke supe gore tota kgang e re e tletseng fa, e tona fela thata.
Tautona wa lefatshe le, Dr Mokgweetsi Eric Keabetswe Masisi, e rile fa a kotama setilo se mo dingwageng tse di fa morago, a supa mo ipapatsong ya gagwe ya phathi ya Domkrag gore ke maikaelelo a gagwe gore lefatshe le, a leke go fedisa borukutlhi mo go lone.

Borukutlhi ga o bo fedise fela, o simolola ka melao.

Letsatsi le, re mo melaong e e leng gore ka bo yone fa o e lebile jalo, o a bona gore ke ya borukutlhi.

Ga se melao e e amang Batswana ba le bantsi ba ba tseneng mo borukutlhing jwa teng.
Dikgang tse re leng fa ka tsone, ke mo gotweng borukutlhi jwa barutegi.

Re itebaganya le dikgang tsa borukutlhi jwa barutegi.

Ga se 38 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading borukutlhi jwa go utswa kgomo kana o re o ya go thuba kwa go semangmang, nnyaa, jo ke jo bo kwa godimo.

Fa re sa bo tshegetse mo nakong e ya gompieno, re a go bona lefatshe la rona le wela kwa tlase.
Batswana ba gatelelwa ke ditshwanelo tse di ka bong di ile kwa go bone, di tsene mo dipateng tsa batho.

Paakanyo-molao e jaaka re e beilwe pele, jaaka bakaulengwe ba ba buileng fa pele ga me, ke dumela gore e lebane.

Dithoto tsotlhe tse motho a di dirileng ka bogodu, nako e gorogile tota ya go supa gore di tshwanetse go tsewa ka bonako.
Fa di sena go tsewa ka bonako, go bonwe gore di ise di latlhegelwe ke tlhwatlhwa ya tsone, madi a tsone a bo a setse a boetse mo letloleng la ga Goromente go isa ditlhabololo.

Ke golo mo go tona thata.

Mo lefatsheng la rona jaaka o utlwa go buiwa, o bona motho a hirwa letsatsi le, e bile kamoso a fitlhela yo o sa bolong go bereka 30 years e bile a tsere loans, ene a sena le fa e le loan, a le fa gare ga tsone, o ipotsa gore dilo tse di tswa kae.

Ba bangwe ba dirisa diofisi tse ba di tshwereng.


Golo mo go a tshwenya Mr Speaker.

Ke dumela gore fa molao o le teng, re o baakanye.

Molao o mogologolo dikgang tse dingwe tse di amang virtual assets di ne di sa supagale mo teng.

O a go baakanya dilo tse tsotlhe, di tsena mo molaong o.

Re a go bona dikgang tse di amanang le bogodu jo go dirisiwang maranyane kana re ka re mo gotweng white collar crime.
Go dirwa ka matswakabele a a kwa godimo gore le wena fa o tsena, you can be convinced gore ga go na le fa e le sepe.

Motho yo gongwe dilo tse o di bone ka tsela e e siameng.

A di bone ka tsela e e leng gore o dirisitse fa a leng teng go ikgobokanyetsa dilo ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Ke dikgang tse e leng gore ga go na ope yo o ka emang fa letsatsi le a di ganetsa Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, bogodu jo bo ntseng jaana jaaka batho ba bua, lefatshe la rona madi a setse a fapaanelwa thata ka matsogo; go dirisiwa cash thata.

It is a cash country.

Golo mo go diphatsa thata gore re bo re santse re ntse jaana.

Ke gone mo batho ba bangwe fa ba sena go tsaya cash mo dikomponeng, kwa ba yang teng, o fitlhela e le gore jaanong ba siela kwa dipolaseng.

Motho o tsena kwa o reka dikgomo, o ya go reka tse pedi kwa, o reka tse pedi kwa, a di kgobokanya, kamoso o supa dikgomo tse a re di tsetse.
Gore dikgomo o di tsere kae, mo sebakeng se se khutshwane, a tladitse masaka, di tlile jang mo masakeng, go a tshwenya.

Le mo gae, mo ditoropong mo o fitlhela e le gore shops ka bontsi tse dingwe di gana to swipe, ba re we only take cash.

Fa o tsena kwa Mogoditshane, ke sa mo ntshe ka leso legolo, kwa go rekisiwang dikoloi tsa imports, nnyaa, ba go raya ba re koloi e fa o e reka, we only take cash.
O bo o tsamaya o ya bankeng o ya go tsaya madi a gago le yone banka e bo e kgona go go neela cash fela ya madi a mantsi, o bo o tsamaya o ya go reka koloi cash, kana bone ga se ba ba tsenyang madi mo dibankeng.

Fa ba sena go neelwa madi a, o ya go reka se a se rekang kana o tsena mo Cashbuild o reka tse a di rekang, o tsena fale.

Kana jaanong o a bo a tlhatswitse madi a a tlisitseng ka dikoloi tse mo go wena, a a tsaya e le cash.

Go raya gore a latlha motlhala ka gore ba dodge le makgetho.
Dikgang tse di tshwanang le tse Mr Speaker, ke dumela gore fa re ka tswala diphatlha tsa gore go nne le madi a mantsi a tsamaya a circulate mo economy, mme a sa tsena ka dibanka kana a sa supafale gope, lefatshe lone le tlaa chona, mme batho bangwe ba na le madi a mantsi circulating.

Dilo tse re a di bona mo mafatsheng a re bapileng le one go le bokete thata, o fitlhela e le gore lefatshe le chonne, mme batho bone fela ka bongwe ka bongwe, madi a mantsi mo go bone.
Ke dumela gore tota dikgang tse Mr Speaker, re le Palamente jaaka re bileditswe dikgang tsa to deal le bogodu, jo ke tlaa bo bitsang ke re ke bogodu jwa barutegi, ba ba dirisang maranyane thata.

Ke ne ka swaba thata tota maloba fa ke ne ke utlwa go buiwa ka gore magodu a phones tsa bone di kgona go reediwa, batho ba bo ba ema ka dinao, ba re phone ya legodu e se ka ya reediwa.

Ba tshoga, ke ipotsa gore gatwe go diragala eng.


Ke dumela gore go ne go buiwa jalo… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... MR LELATISITSWE: Motho a tshwana le Ramogapi a ema ka dinao a batla go tshosetsa batho, gongwe fela ba iketlile ba le kwa masimo; kwa Mahibitswana, Palapye, phones tsa bone di reediwa go rileng?

Kana go reediwa phones tsa legodu, Ramogapi o batla go tshosetsa Batswana, o ka reetsa phone ya motho a le kwa masimo o e reetsa gore a reng?
Ra re a go reediwe phones tsa magodu, jaanong fa ke utlwa motho a ema, a bua tse a neng a di bua, ke ne ke utlwa ke tshwenyega thata gore fa go ka diragala phoso ya gore batho ba ba fiwe Puso, lefatshe le lotlhe… “EXCHANGE OF SPEAKERSHIP” MR SALESHANDO: Point of order.

Thank you Mr Speaker and welcome back.

Point of order ya me ke e Mr Speaker, Tona Lelatisitswe a re bangwe mo Palamenteng, ba ne ba gana gotwe go reediwe phones tsa magodu.
Ga go ise go tle sepe mo Palamenteng re se bewa pele gotwe a phones tsa magodu di ka reediwa 39 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading kana nnyaa.

Imputing improper motives go tewa gone mo, o a itse gore re ne re re a molao o o tseelang batho ba ise ba bonwe molato ditshwanelo tsa privacy, o se ka wa tliswa ka lepotlapotla.
Jaanong ene a re Batswana ba itse gore go na le molao o o reng ga go go reediwe megala ya magodu.

Selo sa ntlha magodu fa a tshwerwe ga a na megala, so ke kopa gore a boele mafoko ao morago a tlhoafale.

Ga re a tlela fa go tla go fetisa melao ka lepotlapotla, re bo re tla go reetsa bo Tona le bo Tonanyana ba tlaopa ba tlisa dilo tsa metshameko mo Palamenteng.

Ke kopa a boele mafoko ao morago kana a re bolelele gore ke ofe molao o o rileng go reediwe phones tsa magodu, bo mang ba o gana.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER (MR MOATLHODI): Order!

Order!

Motlotlegi Rraetsho Mothusa Tona wa tsa Botsogo le Boitekanelo, mafoko a ga mokaulengwe a gago Motlotlegi Moeteledipele wa Kganetso a tlhamaletse ga a batle ruler, ke ao.

MR LELATISITSWE: Ke a leboga Mokhurutshe le wena ke go amogele rra, ke go eleletse ngwaga o mosha o montle thata.

Kgang e ke buang ka yone ka gore tota ga se molao wa gompieno, ke ne ke supa gore fa re leng teng, re bua ka dikgang tse di buang ka bogodu jo bo matswakabele.
E bile go ne ga tlisIwa molao o mongwe o Tona a neng a kopa gore o tsene ka bofefo, o tsamaelana le one o. O ama criminal investigation, o supa gore o ne o ama dilo tse batho ba ba belaelwang mo bogodung, phones tsa bone di tshwanetse go reeediwa.

Jaanong ke bo ke utlwa bangwe gone mo Palamenteng e, ba re batho bao ga go a tshwanela go reediwa phones tsa bone.
Jaanong ke gore ba akaretsa Batswana mo sengwe le sengweng, ke ne ke sa makale ke rialo Mr Speaker, kana fa motho a ipelaela… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, mafoko a ga Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Maun Bophirima, Moeteledipele wa Kganetso, a tlhamaletse.

O buile mangwe mafoko a a fatlhang ka bangwe Batlotlegi Mapalamente mo Ntlong e, o kopile gore o a boele kwa morago.

Ke yone tsamaiso ya rona, you do not have to conditionalise what you said.

MR LELATISITSWE: Okay, ke utlwile Mr Speaker.


Mafoko ao ke a boela morago a gore ke ne ke rile magodu.

Batho ba ba belaelwang mo bogodung jwa go dirisa matswakabele a madi, ba ba tlhotlhomisiwang… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba belaelwa ke mang?

MR LELATISITSWE: Ba belaelwa ke Goromente kana ke ba bosekisI.

Jaanong ga ke tseye gore Batswana botlhe mo lefatsheng, ba a belaelwa jaaka bangwe ba ne ba bua.
Go ne ga bua Honourable Saleshando, Honourable Ramogapi a tlatswa ke Honourable Keorapetse gore bone ga ba dumalane gore phones tsa babelaelwa di reediwe.

Ba tsaya ba soboka ba re Batswana botlhe… MR SALESHANDO: Point of order.

Honourable Lelatisitswe ga ke itse gore gompieno o nole lunch ya mofuta mang.

Ga ke ise ke ko ke bue mafoko a a reng ke a buile, a a reng ka re batho ba ba belaelwang ba se ka ba reediwa mo megaleng …(Interruptions)… kana a tlise bosupi, ga ke ise ke rialo.
Fa a feditse mo Palamenteng, go a twe ke felela gone foo, ga o simolole o dira jaaka a dira jaana Mr Speaker.

I have never said mo Palamenteng e ke kgatlhanong le gore motho fa a belaelwa go ka reediwa mogala wa gagwe.

Ke kopa gore a a boele morago, e tlaabo e le la bobedi a boela morago, jaanong fa a boela morago a kgalemelwe go emisa go tshameka re tle re boele mo tirong e re e tletseng fa.
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, mokaulengwe wa gago Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Maun Bophirima, mafoko a gagwe ga a batle ruler.

Le wena ke a go kopa, ga ke go kope, ke a go rapela Motlotlegi Tona, ka tsweetswee, o motho yo ke itseng gore o itse go ikeha le go ala mafoko, tlosa ngongorego e mokaulengwe wa gago e mo tshwenyang.

Baakanya mafoko a gago, o bue mafoko a gagwe jaaka a a buile.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …gongwe ba ka bo ba sa mo seegela fa thoko, re ka bo re se mo mathateng a a kanakana.
MR SPEAKER: Iketle pele Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Sefhare-Ramokgonami, mo iketlele.

Honourable Minister, please.

MR LELATISITSWE: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Go raya gore mafoko ao ke tlaa boela morago gore re kgone go tswelela.

Ke tsaya jalo gore boammaaruri batho ba ba neng ba reeditse, ba utlwile se ba se utlwileng.

MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, o boetse mafoko kwa morago, tlogela go a tlhatswa gape.

O boetse mafoko kwa morago, tlhamalala jaanong.

Ke dumalana le ene jaanong fa a re ke go kgalemele.

Tsepama.
Tsepama.

MR LELATISITSWE: Ke a boetse morago Mr Speaker.

Ke supe jalo Mr Speaker gore, tota molao o o leng fa pele ga rona jaaka ke buile, ke paakanyo fela ya gore motho ope yo o tshwarwang ka dithoto tsa bogodu, di kgone go tsewa, di boe jalo gongwe di 40 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading phatlaladiwe ka bofefo jaaka ke sa tswa go bua.
Re a itse, dilo re a di bona gone mo lefatsheng la rona tse le wena o ka ipotsang le fa o se an investigator gore gatwe go diragala eng.

ya molao o, di nna teng, regulations di salwa morago le setšhaba se itse regulations, so that le bone ba kgone go bona gore ba ka thusa jang.

Molao ke wa rona rotlhe, le ba ba seng fano.


Ke bue jaaka mokaulengwe Rre Kapinga a ne a bua gore, tota lefatshe la rona go a tlhokafala gore gongwe go nne go nna le assessments tsa gore motho fa a bonwa fela e le gore letsatsi leno e bile o setse a le fagare ga dikhumokhumo, a kgone go botswa, go atamelwa ka bofefo.

Whether ke Motswana kana a foreigner, a botswe gore kante wena rra madi o a dira ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Dikgang tse ke tse re di bonang di diragala, bangwe e le badirelapuso, le bone o bona gore golo fa go na le metsametsano e e ka tswang e diragala.

Jaanong e nna dipelaelo fela tsa batho gore nnyaa, kana gongwe batho ba ba ka tswa ba ikadimile madi mo tenders tsa ga Goromente ba kopane le dikonteraka jalojalo.

Ke molao o ke dumalanang le one, gore a o nne teng re tle re kgone go tlhatswa leina.
Kana le rona mapolotiki a re leng fa, sengwe le sengwe fa gotwe one, lepolotiki go lebega e le motho yo o senyang.

Fa a itirela fa a itirelang reng, o lebega jalo e le motho yo o senyang.

Fa melao e e ntseng jaana e le teng, fa go lemogiwa gore, kana lepolotiki leo le sentse, a go nne bofefo gore dithoto tseo fa di tserwe, di busediwe mo setšhabeng, setšhaba se kgone go tswelela, ke bona ditlhabololo.
O gakologelwe gore dilo tse di tsewang ka bogodu rraetsho, ke dilo tse di ka bong di thamaletse di ile kwa Batswaneng.

Gongwe tsela e ka bo e ne e costed P2 million, e bo e thapololwa fela e ya to cost bo P6 million, go raya gore P4 million yo o ka bo a dirisitswe mo ditlhabololong, a dirile tsela e telele gongwe ya go 4km/5km.

Jaanong o tsene mo dipateng tsa bangwe, o tlaa bona batho bao matshelo a bone a a fetoga fela ka bofefo jo bo gakgamatsang.
Dilo tse di ntseng jaana, ke tse le rona re di bonang di le teng fela mo lefatsheng la rona.

Jaaka molao o re tlaabo re o fetisa, a go nne le makalana a, a nonotshiwe gore e re kwa morago ba kgone go diragatsa tiro ya go sekaseka le go lemoga le go tsaya dithoto tse ka bofefo.

Fa re ka dira molao, mme the implementation e le kwa tlase, e ya go nna molao fela o o leng foo, o gongwe o tla se keng wa sologela Batswana molemo, molao o tlaabo o le teng, mme borukuthi bo tswelela bo ntse bo le teng.
Ke dintlha tse re tshwanetseng gore re di lebelele thata, Tona jaaka o tlaabo o boela kwa morago o ye go bona jalo gore tota dikgang tsa implementation Ka one mafoko a makhutshwane a a kalo, ke eme Tona nokeng.

Ba rotlhe ba re leng fano, a re itseng jalo gore fa re tlile go bua ka bogodu jo bo kwa godimo thata, jo bo tlhokana gore tsotlhe tse re ka di dirisang, phones di teng, di kgone go dirisiwa go sala magodu morago.
E seng go sala Batswana morago jaaka ke ne ke utlwa batho bangwe ba batla go timetsa setšhaba, gotwe Batswana jaanong ba tlaabo ba setswe morago.

Ke tsaya jalo gore ga gona ope yo o ka salang Batswana morago, go tlaa salwa morago ba ba belaelwang e le magodu.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister of Health.
Thank you very much, re lebogile Mokhurutshe, we shall now call upon Honourable Assistant Minister of Agriculture, Honourable Molebatsi Molebatsi, Member of Parliament (MP) for Mmadinare.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Ke a go leboga Rra Nkamo, ke lebogele gore o boile, o ntse mo setilong seo, se ke dumelang gore o se tshwere ka matsetseleko.
Ke simolole ke re jaaka Tona Mmusi a ne a bua, se a neng a se bua ke gore kana molao wa Proceeds and Instruments of Crime, o tswang kgakala o o saleng o nna teng ka 2014.

Jaanong se se diragalang gompieno ke gore.

ba a o baakanya gore o tsamaelane le recommendations tsa FATF le tsa ESAAMLG.

Go boammaruri rra, re bona amendments tse o di dirang.

Kgantele bangwe ba ne ba botsa gore a mme melao e re tlang ka yone gompieno le amendments tse, a FATF ya re re dire jalo.
Nnyaa, mo gongwe re a bona gore ga re ka ke ra goroga kwa recommendations tsa bone, re tshwanetse gore re dire sengwe, re baakanye melao e mengwe gore re kgone go goroga kwa recommendations tsa FIA Act, re tsamaelane le yone.
Kana mengwe ya yone ke one molao o, gore kana go baakanya ga Financial Intelligence Act go dirile a consequential cause ya gore re dire re amend molao o, ka gore o na le ditsetlana dingwe tse kwa Financial Intelligence Act di tsamaelanang le molao o. Fa re ne re ka ka o tlogela jaaka o ne o ntse, o ne o ka salela kwa morago, gongwe kamoso ra tsoga re bitswa gape gotwe baakanyang sele.

41 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
39 OF 2021) Second Reading Kwa ntle ga gore re tshwanetse re dire jalo, Motswana kwa gae o ka bo a itumela thata gore kana re baakanya dikgang tse Batswana ba tlholang ba lela ka tsone ba re go na le tshenyetso-setshaba.

Batswana ba tshwenyegile, segolobogolo o fitlhela tshenyetso-setshaba e ba e bua e bile ba e lomaganya le rona mapolotiki, bodirelapuso le rona ba re tlhokometseng dithoto tsa bone.
Melao e e thusa gore re tle re baakanya, gore re ntshe letshogo mo setšhabeng, kwa ntleng ga FATF le mo lefatsheng fela, go botlhokwa thata, re ka bo re go galaletsa gore Puso e tla ka gore e tle ka melao e e baakanyang jalo.

O ka gakologelwa gape gore le phathi yoora Domkrag ga e ipapatsa, e ne ya bua e papametse gore e ya go tla ka melao e e tlaa nyeletsang kana e fokotsa mo go tsamaelanang le go nyeletsa tshenyetso-setšhaba.
Ke maikaelelo a rona, mme se re tshwanetse re se galaletse gore kana melao e e tsamaelana le maikaelelo ao, a ipapatso a re neng re tla ka one ka 2019.

Ke tsene kwa ditsetlaneng tsa melao, tse ke ka se keng ka di tsaya tsotlhe, mme dingwe tse ke tlaa tshwanelang gore ke di supe fa, tse ke di ratileng thata e bile ke di galaletsa.
Nngwe ke ya gore molao jaanong o supa gore paakanyo nngwe e e dirwang ke gore go oketswa investigators, batho ba e leng gore ba tlaa bo ba investigator ditiro tse di maswe tsa tshenyetso-setshaba yone e, ...(Inaudible)… these crime investigators.

Kana molao pele o ne o supa gore this crime investigator, e ne e le Unified Revenue Service Officers, mme ba okeditswe.

Go tsamaelana le se Rre Kapinga a neng a se kopa gore a re oketseng capacity, a re oketseng bokgoni jwa gore molao o ka diragala.
Se se a itumedisa gore ga ba ka ke ba iphitlha, fa batho ba ba ka tlhotlhomisa ditiro tse ba ka nna bantsi jaaka molao o bua gompieno, ke kgato e tona thata e re tshwanetseng gore re e lebogele.

O ne o bua ka go oketsa go tlhalosa gore properties and funds tse gotweng motho o ka di fitlha, go tewa dife.
A tlhalosa ka go tsenya virtual assets, tse re neng re bua ka tsone maabane gore kana motho o kgona o fitlha kana motho o kgona go baya dikhumokhumo tsa gagwe mo lefaufaung, mo go bitswang gotwe virtual assets.

A kgona go di rekisa and exchange into se a kgonang gore a reke ka sone.

Gone moo kana go akaretsa bo crypto currency, gore motho o kgona gore a dire tshenyetso-setšhaba.
A bo e le gore ka fa a duelwang ka teng gongwe o duelwa kwa Saudi Arabia, Dubai kana kwa China, ba mo duela ka dilo tse, a bo e le gore o di baya gone foo.

Tse e leng gore ka matlho le investigator ga a ka ke a di bona.

Se se monate thata gore re se ka ra batla dikgomo jaaka Mopalamente a ne a bua gore, kana tshenyetso-setšhaba e e fitlhwa kwa merakeng, dipolaseng, mme o bona physical assets.
Jaanong re bua gore ba ba botlhale technology has changed, ba kgona go di fitlha, mo gotweng…(inaudible)…assets, madi one a gotweng crypto currency.

Gape se sengwe se ke se lebogelang ke go baakanya Clause 4 e e neng e bua gore it extends for forfeiture of currency.

Kana pele the current law e ne e bua fela gore o ne o kgona go dira import declaration.

Se se tsenang fela ke sone se gotweng e feletse gone foo.

Matsebetsebe a madi a a tsenang ke one a o neng o tshwanetse gongwe to declare.
Jaanong gompieno fa e supa, fa ke e tlhaloganyang sentle ke gore, le fa o ntsha madi gone mo lefatsheng, o reka sengwe, o reka apartment kwa Central London, fela fa a tswa gone fa o tshwanetse to declare gore madi a fa o a ntsha gone fa, o a ntsha o a unyulola fa kae.

Molao ka fa o neng o ntse ka teng o ne o sa bue sepe ka to declare.

Jaanong none declaration ke molato.

Fa o sa supe gore dilo tse o di tsaya kae, ka tsela e e ntseng jang, ke molato.
Ke re ke tswelele ka se se kileng sa amiwa ke Motlotlegi Kapinga sa gore, re tshwanetse go gagamatsa tota implementation ya molao.

Molao ga o reye sepe fa o sena implementation capacity, that is true.

Ke lantlha ke dumalana le wena jalo rra.


It is true, fa re o kwadile o ntse jaana, fela batho ba tshwanelwa ke gore batle ka matsebetsebe a madi ke fe sekai; gongwe ke le Tona ke le fa ke thuse banna ba maChina go tsaya konteraka nngwe e tonatona, ba tla ba ntuela P30 Million, ke bo ke tsamaya ke ya kwa Barclays Bank, e bo e le gore e amogela madi ao go sena bothata bope, aah owai!...
fa re ka bua rona fela ra se ka ra bua ka stakeholders tse dingwe… Mopalamente yo mongwe o ne a bua ka dibanka gore, le tsone gongwe a Molao o o gagamalele le ba ba ka dirisanyang le ba ba senyang.

Ba dirisanya maybe intentionally or unintentionally.

A dibanka di se ka tsa re motho fa a tla a rwelerwele madi a a gakgamatsang e bo e le gore ba mmotsa potsonyana tse pedi.

Ke a itse gore Financial Intelligence Act mo lefatsheng la rona e ka latedisa dilo tseo.
Go na le dibanka dingwe tse e leng gore tsone ga di sale golo mo morago.

Gongwe go gagamale gore, fa Bank of Botswana e ka fitlhela e le gore dibanka tse dingwe are aiding corruption e bo e le gore le tsone di tseelwa licence.

Ka ke tsone dibanka tse di tlileng go diga lefatshe la rona.

Motho o tlaabo a tsamaya a bo a ya go tsaya loan kwa bankeng, two days later o a boa, he or she clears loan ele.

A banka e botse gore the money that is clearing o a tsaya kae?
42 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading A banka e re thuse, e thuse Goromente.

Therefore, the implementation capacity fa e le gore ga e yo owai!

ga re ye gope.

Ke gakolole gore gone moo re tshwanetse go go ela tlhoko.

Ke gone mo go mosola thata.

Ke itse gore FATF ba tlaabo ba re tsentse leitlho, gore a mme tsone dilo tse re a di dira gongwe jaaka re ne re buile.
Kana fela jaaka go ne go buiwa, kana accumulation of wealth kana go nna le dikhumokhumo tse di senang motlhala go a diragala mo mafatsheng, le mo lefatsheng la rona go a diragala.

O fitlhela motho e le gore re a itse gore ke modirelapuso fela yo e leng gore o gone kwa a berekang teng kana kwa Lephateng la Agriculture, fa o khona o re o ya kwa metlhabeng kafa dikgomo tsa gagwe di a gakgamatsa, didiba, dikgomo, eng, go sena motlhala.

Molao o o direlwa gone moo gore, a ko re latediseng batho ba.
Ga go molato gore motho a ka botswa gore tse o di tsaya kae?

Gongwe go tsamaelana le se se neng se buiwa ke Rre Kapinga.

Ke tlaa nna ke bua ene, a civil forfeiture review gore le yone e tlhoafalelwe thata fa go dirwa molao o. Ke dumela gore e teng mo Botswana mo e leng gore motho o kgona go botswa gore dilo o di tsaya kae.

Ke bo ke itse gore ke Molebatsi fela, ke Mopalamente ke amogela bokae, a bo e le gore dilo tsa me fela ga di tsamaelane le se se bonwang ke se tshotse.
Ke sone se re tlhokang ba revenue, ba BURS jaaka Tona a supa gore o okeditse investigators.

Re tlhoka ba BURS gore fa ba tsena kwa ba fitlhela motho a rwelerwele dilo tse di gakgamatsang, tse di bontsi jo bo kana, a bo e le gore ba a mmotsa gore, ka re bona dilo ke tse, go raya gore tse fa re di bonye jaana go raya gore o tshwanetse o bo o na le madi a a kana.

Kana kwa lekgethong ga o supe gore o duela lekgetho le le tsamaelanang le se re se bonang mo botshelong jwa gago.
Dilo tse di tshwanetse gore di dirwe.

Ke re ke leboge gore go bo go okeditswe ba ba tlhotlhomisang.

Le bone ba ba tlhotlhomisang a ba se ka ba nna fela mo Gaborone, ba se ka ba nna fela mo diofising mo Central Business District (CBD).

Go raya gore ba tsamae ba thuse itsholelo ya lefatshe.

At the end of the day fa dilo tse di diragala di diga itsholelo ya lefatshe.
Ga go tlhoke batho ba bantsi gore ba ka diga itsholelo ya lefatshe, for economy e e small as ya Botswana go tlhoka magodu one a, a le few gore a bo a kgaoganya meamuso ya lefatshe la rona, re bo re re pau!

A bo itsholelo e wela fa fatshe.

Ke sone se re tlhokang molao o thata gore o gagamatswe fela thata.

Fela kwa ntleng ga gore go ne go gatelelwa gore a dilo tse di tsewe… Legale se re sa batleng go se bona gape ke gore, jaanong molao o o bo o dirisiwa gore go latelwa batho le ba ba senang molato.
E le gore la bofelo investors tsa rona di tlaa sia, di bona fela gore fa o re o nna le sengwe fela e bile se a tsewa gatwe o a belaela.

Nnyaa a go se ka ga nna jalo.

A re direng gore motho a lebisiwe molato, a seke, e re a seka dilo tse gongwe e nne jone bosupi jwa gore o sentse.

Ga a sa kgone go bua gore o di tsere kae, di bo di tsewa.

Kana gone mo ke neng ke go bua mo ga living beyond your means, re di tseye ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Ga re batle mo e tlaa reng gongwe Motsamai wa Modimo a itsamaela a pagame tonki ya gagwe kwa Kacgae ba bo ba kopana le ene ba re, gologa tonki eo re belaela gore ke proceeds of crime.

Kana ke lema ke le kwa Monatsane ke le mo tereketareng ya me, e re fa ke ntse ke lema e bo e le gore ke bona batho ba goroga fela ba re, gologa tereketara eo re a e belaela, o e tsaya kae?

Nnyaa ga go batle go ntse jalo.


Go batlwa go diriwa fela sentle, ka gore fa go ka se ke go dirwe sentle le gone go ka re tlhakatlhakanyetsa lefatshe.

Fela dilo tse ke batlang go di gatelela ke tsone tse.

Ke gore molao o capacity to implement, re simolole ka investigators, gore a re nneng le investigators tse di rutetsweng gone go tlhotlhomisa tshenyo eo, melato eo.

A re nneng le prosecutors, gore fa a tsena kwa court a bo a na le boitsaanape jwa go sekisa melato ya go nna jalo.
Le Judges ba rona ba dirwe upskilling, le bone ba thusiwe gore a bo e le gore ba kgona gore le fa ba sa specialise a bo a kgona go itse gore melato ya go nna jaana fa e tsena ba e leba ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Le gore confiscated assets go nne le yone Confiscated Assets Trust Fund e e tlhokomelwang ke Puso e dilo di tlaa nnang sentle, go nne le specialised warehouses, tse e leng gore dilo tse kana ke assets tse e ka nnang tsa felela e le tsa Puso di tlhokomelwe.
Le ka dumalana le nna ba ba a tleng ba fete fa police ya Criminal Investigation Department (CID), fa o ya kwa South Ring Mall, go na le dikoloi tse dingwe tse di saleng di tshwerwe ke mapodise tse gotweng…kana di a tlhotlhomisiwa gone fa CID, tse dingwe di na le dingwagangwaga, e bile di setse di bolailwe ke letsatsi.
Ke sone se re neng re se bua gore, fa go tshwerwe dithoto tse di ntseng jaana ka gore go ya go tshwarwa dithoto tse e leng gore tse dingwe ke tsa maemo a a kwa godimo, ka gore batho ba ba dirang bogodu jo ga ba reke dithoto tsa madi a a kwa tlase, ba reka tsa madi a a kwa godimo.

Ke re fa go ntse jalo bagaetsho, di tlhokomelwe ka gore ke dilo tse di tlaabong di rekisiwa di sologela state molemo.
Ke gatelele gore a re se ka ra nna le unscrupulous and jealous law enforcement agencies tse jaanong di tlaa latelang batho fela ba se na molato.

43 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading Kana go huma tota gone ga se molato, it is not a sin.

Motho e ka re a tshwana le Molebatsi fela jaana e le ngwana wa ga Tshabadira kwa Mmadinare a goletse mo lehumeng, ke kgona gore e re fa ke gola ke bo ke itirela.
E bo e le gore botshelo jwa me bo a fetoga, ke nna le dikoloi tse di rileng, ke a ithekela.

Mme fela a ke se ka ka tshwenngwa fela ka gore gatwe ‘wena re itse gore o tswa kwa lelwapeng la bahumanegi.’ Go batla go dirwe sentle le gone moo ka gore go ka se ke go tsamaye sentle, batho ba ka se ke ba tlotle molao o sentle fela thata.

Nna kwa phelelong bagaetsho, ke batla go bona Batswana ba humile, ba itirela and owning valuable property and assets in a corruption-free society and it is possible.
Se ke ka se tlhomamisang gape gone fa ke gore Batswana ga ba batle go bona batho ba huma ka ditsela tse e leng gore tota ga di a nna sentle.

Fa gongwe go itsiwe fela gore nnyaa ga se bogologolo a berekile, ke gone a tsenang gone fa, dikhumo tsa gagwe di bo di sa tsamaelane le matshelo a gagwe.

Ga ba batle go bona dilo tse di ntseng jalo.

Golo moo go ka re kgaoganya re le Botswana.

Le gone gore a investigators tseo di rutuntshiwe enough, di kgone gore di latele dikgang tse.
Fa e le gore ba di latela kwa bo Thailand ba di latele koo ka gore dilo tse tsa bogodu tse ga di ka ke tsa fitlhwa mo Botswana fela, di ya go fitlhwa kwa mafatsheng a mangwe.

We need investigators, network le other investigation agencies tsa mafatshe a mangwe gore ba re thuse and I believe FATF and ESAAMLG provide for that gore fa re le mo Southern Africa le East Africa e bo e le gore tirisanyo yone eo e nna teng.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke eme gone fa, mafoko a me a felela gone fa.
Ke a leboga.

Ke ema molao o nokeng ka pelo ya me yotlhe.

MR LUCAS (BOBONONG): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re le nna ke akgele mo molaong o. Ke o akgela jaana mo Palamenteng e e biditsweng ka diamaramara e bile motho o ka nna a e bitsa Palamente ya FATF ka gore a ke re melao yone e re buisanang ka yone e, ke e e leng gore re e patelediwa tota gore re e diragatse ke lekgotla lone la FATF.

Ke re ee, re a utlwa dikgang di teng tse di botlhokwa tse di buiwang.
Ke dumela gore ga go na ope yo o ka amogelang gore go tshwanetse ga nna le money laundering; ke gore madi a bogodu a a tlhatswiwang ka ditsela tse di farologanyeng, a tlhatswiwa ke matlhale a madi a ke tleng ke a bitse ke re matlhalerwa.

Ba na le botsipa jo bo tseneletseng jwa go utswa madi.

Ke farologana le Mopalamente Lelatisitswe fa a re ke bogodu jwa barutegi, nnyaa, ke bogodu jwa matlhalerwa, matlhale a matona a madi.
Ke re gone moo ka bogone, ga gona ope yo o ka go ganang batho betsho, re tshwanetse rotlhe ra go amogela gore re tshwanetse ra lwantsha thulaganyo e e ntseng jalo ya go tlhatswa madi a bogodu; madi a drugs fela jalo, a batho ba ba a boneng ka tshokamo e e feteletseng.

Ke dumalana gape gore re tshwanetse gape ra lwantsha terrorism funding; ke gore go leka go bona madi a go duelela borukutlhi jo ka Sekgoa bo bidiwang terrorism jo e leng gore tota ke borukutlhi jo bo tseneletseng jo bo senang leina.
Le kwa Bobirwa tota ga re na leina la terrorism.

Ke borukutlhi jo bo tshwanetseng jwa lwantshiwa tota ka metlha, ka dinako tsotlhe.

Le yone proliferation financing; ke gore go duelela go dira dibetsa tsa mmolao wa kgatlampolo, gone ka bogone, ke sebe se se tona se re tshwanetseng gore le rona re join mafatshefatshe re lwantshe seemo seo.

Ke tse e leng gore ga gona ope yo o ka di ganang.

Ga se lwantlha Palamente e mekamekana le melao e, e e kgaramediwang e bile e susumediwa ke lekgotla la FATF.
E ne ya re mo Palamenteng ya 2018, e bangwe ba rona ba neng ba seo mo go yone mme re ne re ntse re le mapolotiki re reetsa dikgang tsa Palamente, Mapalamente ba lala mo Palamenteng e le gore ka nako ya teng ba ne ba fetisa melao e le 25, go le thata tota e le marathon.

Go a supafala gore le fa re fetisitse e e 25 eo, re santse re tlhaela.

Gompieno re fetisa 16.


Go raya gore melao e, e ke e bitsang ya FATF, go raya gore gompieno mo dingwageng tse tharo, re setse re lebile melao e ka tshwara 41 e e patelediwang ke lekgotla lone la FATF gore re e dirafatse.

Se se gakgamatsang ka thulaganyo e ke gore mo melaong ele ya 2018, mengwe ya yone after three years e boile gape re a e baakanya.

Gone moo, go supa gore gongwe re ne re sa baakanya mo go tseneletseng.

Melao e e dirwang ka lebelo le re le tabogileng le, gantsinayana ga e ke e wela sentle.
Motlotlegi Serame o ne a re bolelela gore re ya to be assessed ka 2024 mme motho ga a batle go bona seemo se e leng gore ka 2025 re kopane gape e le gore re kopanetse melao e le 20.

Mengwe ya yone e le ya yone e e 41 e re setseng re kile ra e leba.

Ka jalo, ke re lepotlapotla lone le, la go baakanya melao, tota ga se lone tsela e e siameng ya go baakanya melao, bogolo jang e e very technical.
E tseneletse thatathata… 44 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading OF TRANSPORT AND MINISTER COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): On a point of clarification.

Ke a leboga e bile ke leboga Honourable Lucas.

Ke ne ke utlwa a ngongorega ka gore dipaakanyo tse di neng tsa dirwa kwa morago, di ne di sa lekana, o ne a bua ka lebelo.
Jaanong ke ne ke re gongwe ke kope gore ke utlwe gore a mme gone o ne a utlwile fa Motlotlegi Tona Serame a tlhalosa gore kana dipaakanyo tse di setse morago the recommendations?

Jaanong tse di neng di dirwa kwa morago, go ne go lebilwe recommendations dingwe tse di neng di re ntsha out of grey listing.

E le gore jaanong tse re di dirang, go ne go raya gore ke tse di neng di tlhaotswe di setse gore re tlaa tla re di dira kwa morago.
Jaanong kana fa re ka bo re ne re rile re goboka gotlhe re go dira ka nako e le nngwe, re ka bo go ne jaanong jaana re ntse re sa tswa mo grey listing.

Ke re ke botse gore a o tlhaloganya seo?

MR LUCAS: Nnyaa rraetsho, tota tlhaloso ya gago ga e nthuse ka sepe Rre Segokgo ka gore ke ne ke tlhalogantse Motlotlegi Serame sentle.
Se se ntshwenyang ke gore fa o tlisa melao e le 16 mo nakong ya dibeke tse pedi o re re e dire, gone moo ka bogone ga re felele re dirile tiro e ntle e e leng gore e ka se ka ya dira gore re tle re boele kwa morago mo melaong yone e. Ke sone se ke neng ke se bua ka gore melao ya 2018, mengwe ya yone jaanong re patelesega go simolola go e lebaleba gape gore re tle re kgone re e baakanye e tsamaelane le recommendations tse di neng di ntse di le teng.
Le fa go ntse jalo rraetsho, ke supe gore batho betsho le fa re le mafolofolo jalo, re batla gore re baakanye melao e, re lwantshe terrorism, money laundering le proliferation financing, go botlhokwa thata gore re ele tlhoko gore kana melao yone e e ka reng e gagametse thata mo go feteletseng, fa o e leba sentle, ditso tsa yone di simolola fela ka September 11 fa America ba ne ba tlhaselwa ke terrorists mme ya re morago ga foo ba leka gore melao e thatafadiwe fela thata.
Go thatafatswa ga melao e, ya go lwantsha terrorism, fa gongwe o ne o fitlhela e le gore go thatafatsa moo go tsamaya jaanong go gotlhagotlhana le ditshwanelo tsa setho.

Gone moo re tshwanetse ra go ela tlhoko batho betsho gore e re fa re baakanya melao e, e ka nna molao ofe ka wa gompieno ba ba o bokang ba o bitsa wa phika.
Re tshwanetse ra itse gore mme go na le mo gotweng ditshwanelo tsa setho tse e leng gore di kwadilwe mo universal declaration of human rights gore mongwe le mongwe yo e leng gore o tlaabo a tshela mo botshelong, mo sebopegong sa Modimo, o na le ditshwanelo le ene.

Le fa e le gore o batla go lwantsha terrorism, money laundering, ga o a tshwanela gore e re o tsweletse, o gatake ditshwanelo tsa ga ope.
Ke sone se ke dumalanang le Rre Molale a bua ka kgang e a reng there should be checks and balances all the time gore fa re dira yone melao e, re tshwanetse ra bona gore mme ga go na gope fa e leng gore jaanong re gataka ditshwanelo tsa batho ba ba farologaneng ba e leng gore ba tshela mo mafatsheng a rona.
Re tshwanetse ra nna le safe guards against abuse ya melao yone e ka gore gone go a diragala gore fa gongwe fa melao ya mohuta one o e setse e goroga, ba bangwe ba ka e dirisa botlhaswa go leka go gobelela a certain sections of the population.
So go botlhokwa fela thata gore re itse gore go tenega mole ga maAmerica ga September 11, go tenega ga lefatshe go dirile gore jaanong makgotla le one a tshwana le bo World Bank le bo International Monetary Fund (IMF) le bone jaanong ka gore fa America e shakgala, le bone ba a shakgala ba bo ba tsisa melao e e leng gore jaanong ga e na sepe le ditshwanelo tsa motho.

Gone moo ka bogone, ke selo se re tshwanetseng gore re se ele tlhoko.
Ke dumalane le Honourable Kapinga gore civil forfeiture e tshwanetse gore gongwe re e oketse re e diragatse.

Fa re dira civil forfeiture, ke gore jaanong re tsaya thulaganyo e sele e seng ya criminal forfeiture, re tshwanetse ra tlhomamisa gore mme le yone eo fa re e dira, re e dira ka tsela e e leng gore ga e ka ke ya re kwa morago ra fitlhela e le gore batho ba go pelompegetse fela ba kgona gongwe ba go tseele tse e leng gore di go tshwanetse.
Gone moo ka bogone ke nngwe ya dikgang tse e leng gore batho betsho, re tshwanetse ra di ela tlhoko.
Fa re sa di ele tlhoko, se se tlaa diragalang ke gore, e tlaa re gone fale fa re setse re tsena mo dikgannyeng tsa ditlhopho ka re setse re itse Africa ka fa a ntseng ka teng, e tlaa re go tsena tsone dikgang tsone tsele tsa bo ditlhopho jalo, o bo o fitlhela e le gore batho ba le bantsi ba e leng gore gongwe ba ganetsanya le Puso e e busang, fa a itheketse kolotsananyana ya gagwe e lebega o kare e ntlenyane, go bo gotwe nnyaa mme ema pele re e tseye pele re ye go tlhotlhomisa ka gore o kare motho yo khumo ya gagwe ga re e tlhaloganye.
Ke re gone moo re tshwanetse ra go ela tlhoko, go diragetse mo nakong e e fetileng, mo o neng o fitlhela ba bangwe ba gogagogiwa ba tseelwa le tsone dikolotsananyana tseo tsa bone tsa bofelo e le gore gatwe nnyaa bothata jo botona ke gore gongwe ga ba a duela makgetho le tse dingwe fela jalo.

A re eleng tlhoko gore le fa e le gore re diragatsa yone melao yo e, a re se ka ra pelompegela ope ra iphitlhela re tenegetse batho ba bangwe ra akanya gore kante jaanong ke eng ba tshwanetse go nna jalo.
45 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading Gongwe le gone e bile re ba kgoreletsa le mo go go gone go ipapatsa tota, re re nnyaa wena o tshwana le Honourable Motsamai, landcruiser e wa e reka jang.

Fela jalo e nna dikgang tse di tshesanyane tse di dirisiwang botlhaswa.

Gone moo e tshwanetse ya nna dikgang tse e leng gore re tshwanetse ra di sala morago.
Gape re tshwanetse ra sala morago dikgang tse dingwe tse e leng gore di ama gore gantsinyana batho ba o fitlhela ba amanngwa le gore ba dirile kgotsa ba bone khumo ka tsela e e sokameng, fa go tsena nako ya ditlhopho, o fitlhela mme gape ba na le go ikamanya le babusi.

Bangwe ba bone ba setse ba kile ba supa gore ba ne ba neela babusi madi a go tsamaisa conferences, congress, bangwe ba bone ba supa gore ba kile ba neela babusi madi a a rileng.
Fa re tsaya case ya National Petroleum Fund (NPF) moanelwa mogolo mo go yone o supa gore bangwe o kile a ba neela madi, mme ene dithoto tsa gagwe di tserwe, they have been confiscated, mme ba ba kileng ba neelwa madi ke ene, a ba neela gongwe ka dithoto tse e leng gore ba re o di tsere ka tsela e e botlhaswa, mme bao o kare ga go na gope fa re ba kgomang teng.
Gongwe re tshwanetse gape one molao o o tshwanang le one o wa …(inaudible)… re sekaseke gore ee, yo mongwe yole o tseetswe dithoto, mme yo ene o ne a tsaya sengwe mo dithotong tsone tseo, ene ra reng ka ene.

Mo bogompienong bone ba ba tsereng sengwe, ba ba jeleng sengwe mo dithotong tsone tseo tsa NPF ba di ja sepolotiki, bone ba lebega e kete jaanong they are walking scot free.
Gone moo re tshwanetse ra thatafatsa melao, ra tlhomamisa gore ee ba e leng gore ba bone madi ka tsela ya tshokamo e bile ba tseetswe dithoto, mme fa e le gore madi a teng a ne a goroga kwa mapolotiking a maemo, bone bao ba ba... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR SPEAKER: Clarification sought.

MR LUCAS: Ee mma ke wetse.


Ba ba kgonneng go bona one madi ao, le bone ba tshwanetse ba lebisiwa melato ya gore ba ne ba tsaya madi a dithoto tse di neng di sa bonwa ka tlhamalalo gona le gore go bo go tseelwa bale fela ba e leng gore ba a umakiwa, mme bale bone ba e leng gore ba jele monate, ba bo ba bona Puso ka tsela ya tshokamo ka gore ba dirisa madi a e leng gore a ne a sa bonwa sentle, bao bone ba mo mathateng, mme ba ba a akotseng le bone ba bangwe ga ba lebege e kete ba lebisiwa dikgang tsone tseo.
O ne o batla clarification Tona yo mosha.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Assistant Minister of Local Government, motho wa mme.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Point of clarification.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, e bile ke a leboga Motlotlegi Lucas.

Ke go botse, ke a utlwa gore wa re ba e leng gore ba ne ba neelwa madi, mme ba a neelwa sentle fela, le bone ba lebisiwe molato.

Ke go kope gore Motlotlegi Lucas, fa e le gore motho o go neela madi, e bile o sa itse gore a ke a bogodu, a le wena o tshwanetse gore o tsene toronko?
E bile ke botse gone gore fela jaaka motlotlegi yo mongwe a ntse a bua gore madi a a bogodu a tlaabo a tsewa motho a bo a ya go reka koloi kwa Mogoditshane, a ene mong wa shopo ya dikoloi kwa Mogoditshane, a le ene a ye toronkong, ka gore ga a itse gore a madi ao ke a bogodu?

MR LUCAS: Nnyaa, mme re utlwile, mme kana o a itse gore go amogela selo sa bogodu ka bogone ke molato.
Rre Kapinga o ka tla a re tlhalosetsa sentle gore ke charge e e bidiwang mang, mme nna ke ka ke e bitsa fela ke re “receiving stolen property.” Gone moo ka bogone, o tshwanetse go itse gore go molato thata motho wetsho, ba e leng gore ba jele madi a NPF e le mapolotiki, re tshwanetse gore re ba sale morago, e se ka ya nna gore bone ba jele sengwe fela ga go na molato.
Go bo ba jele sengwe e le mapolotiki ba tsamaisa polotiki ya bone, ba bo ba fenya ditlhopho, mme ba dirisitse madi a e leng gore supafetse gore gongwe dithoto tsa teng di ne di sa bonwa sentle, gone moo ka bo gone go tshwanetse gore le bone ba bonwe molato one o. Fa ba sa o bonwe, go raya gore jaanong re tlaabo re dirisa molao ka go tlhaola batho.

Batho ba mofuta one o, go lebega ba le bantsinyana ba e leng gore ba na le botsalano le babusi.
Gone moo ka bogone, re tshwanetse re se ka ra go tlogela kwa ntle Tona Mmusi.

Ke inyalanya le ba ba reng Office of the Receiver e tshwanetse ya tsaya dilo tsa batho mme e di tlhokomele.

Kana mo bogompienong jaana go a supafala gore dingwe tsa dikgomo tse di neng di tserwe ke Office of the Receiver, di sule.

Le fa batho bao ba ka bonwa molato, go raya gore Puso ga e ka ke ya bona tlhwatlhwa epe mo dikgomong tse... HONOURABLE MEMBER: O itse jang gore di sule?

MR LUCAS: Ke a itse gore di sule.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: O di bone kae?

MR LUCAS: I have received a report to that effect.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Lucas, o se ka wa itsenya dingalo Motlotlegi Mopalamente, do not address side remarks, wena o buisanye le nna.

Le lona ke a le kopa Batlotlegi, iketleleng Motlotlegi Lucas.

46 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
39 OF 2021) Second Reading MR LUCAS: Office of the Receiver... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga a bue nnete.

MR LUCAS: ...e tshwanetse gore ka bofefo jo bo rileng, e re fa e le gore o gapile dithoto tsa batho, a tlhomamise gore batho le bone ba a seka gore e re kwa morago fa e le gore batho bao ba bonwa molato, dithoto tseo di tle di solegele Goromente molemo.

Gompieno jaana dikoloi tsa batho di tserwe, mongwe wa bone gone fa ke Mopalamente.
Koloi e tserwe, e latlhegelwa ke value kwa e leng teng, fa a ka bo a fenya case yone eo, o tlaabo a seka le ene Goromente gore Goromente ke batla koloi ya me ka value e e neng e le mo go yone ka nako yone eo.

Go raya gore gone moo jaanong go tlaabo go latlhegelwa yone Puso ka gore ga e a ka ya tshwara dilo tsa batho sentle.

Gone moo go botlhokwa thata gore gongwe ke go gatelele.

Ke bo ke supe gape... HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... MR LUCAS: Rraetsho, nako ya me e tsamaile.
Fa ke wela gape bagaetsho, molao o fa o bua ka kgang ya go supa madi a a tswang le a a tsenang foo, ke o ema nokeng, mme gape ke supe gape gore fa rona re santse re saletse kwa morago ka gone gore madi ao a supiwe, yo o sa a supeng, a bo a ka kgona gore o ka a tseelwa, mafatshe a mangwe a tsweletse.
Ke ne ke amogela dipego go tswa kwa molelwaneng wa Martins Drift ka batho ba kgaolo ya kwa Bobirwa le batho ba kgaolo ya Tswapong ba ba supang gore jaanong fa o tswa ka kwa South Africa o tla o rwele madi a phane, fa o tsena fela gone fa molelwaneng, ba go raya ba re declare.

Fa e ka bo ya re ba go raya ba re declare o bo o sa supe, ba bo ba go search ba bo ba a fitlhela, ba tsaya one madi one ao.
O a bona gore mafatshe one a tsweletse, rona go itirelwa boithatelo fela, madi a kgona go tsewa go rata le go bona.

Bogolo jang bone ba ba tsayang madi a tenders tse di tonatona ba a isa kwa mafatsheng a bone, re tshwanetse tota batho bao madi a supiwe sentle, ra itse.

Madi ao fa gongwe o fitlhela a patilwe ke a borukutlhi le di drugs.

Gone mo go batla gore re tlhoafalele gore kgang e of declaring madi a a tsenang le a a tswang re e tseele fela kwa godimo fela thata batho betsho.
Seemo seo re a se tlhoka ka gore re batla go bona se diragala gore kwa morago lefatshe la rona go se ka ga nna le madi a mantsintsi a a tswang mme re sa itse gore a dule.

Moo ka bogone go ama itsholelo ya rona, ga e ka ke ya gola fa e le gore e dira madi.

Itsholole e dira madi mme ga e kgone go a circulate mo lefatsheng la rona.
Ke gore a tswa go rata le go bona fela, kwa morago go bo go raya gore itsholelo ya rona e sala e ntse e le mo mathateng, e le kwa tlase ka gore e dira madi a a tswang mme ga a bereke mo itsholelong e ya rona.

E bile madi a teng fa gongwe a tswa ka ditsela tse e leng gore ke tsa boferefere le borukutlhi.

Ke feleletse fela ka gore batho betsho, molao ke oo wa phika mme re tshwanetse ra tlhomamisa gore fa o setse o diragadiwa jaanong, a o diragadiwe ka tsela ya tekatekano.
A o diragadiwe ka tsela e e leng gore ga gona ope yo e leng gore o ka betelwapelo fela ka gore gongwe o na le se a nang le sone.

A batho ba se ka ba betelwa pelo fela ka gore ga se ba phathi e e busang, o tlaabo a gogwagogwa a isiwa kwa court gotwe dithoto tse o di tsere kae.

Jaaka re ya kwa ditlhophong jaana re tshwanetse ra ela tlhoko gore batho ga ba je madi a e leng gore ga a bonwa sentle, ba a ja mo bathong ba ba farologaneng, bone ba bo ba sa lebisiwe molato ope fela.
E bile jaanong fa e le gore madi a teng gatwe a fiwa bo Tautona, Tautona ene kana gatwe ga a sekisiwe.

Jaanong fa Tautona a sa sekisiwe go raya gore fa phathi e tshwana le ya Domkrag, go raya gore madi a a tshwanang le one a ke a a tlaabong a tobelwa fela kwa go ene.

E bo e le gore jaanong gatwe kana ene ga a ka ke a seka, go bo go raya gore Domkrag e felela e akola madi ao a e leng gore ga a bonwa sentle.
E felela e fenya ditlhopho ka tsela e e neng e sa lebana, e dirisa madi one a bo NPF le a batho ba bangwe ba e leng gore ga ba bone madi ka tsela e e lolameng.

Jaanong gone moo go bo go sa tsewe dikgato.

A re tseyeng dikgato and di se ka tsa tsewa sepolotiki.

Dikgato fa di tsewa go lebiwe boammaaruri jo bo leng teng, e bo e le gore motho o tseelwa dikgato go sa kgathalesege gore a ke wa phathi e e busang kana ke ya kganetso.

Ka jalo, molao wa go nna jalo ke o ema nokeng kwa bofelong.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Lucas, Honourable Member for Bobonong; Ga-Makala, Ga- Rasetimela.

Honourable brand new Assistant Minister of Local Government and Rural Development; Honourable Madam Monnakgotla.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Thank you Mr Speaker, tla ke go dumedise.

Ke dumedise le bone ba ba kwa Kgalagadi North; Zutshwa, Ukhwi, Hunhukwe, Inalegolo, Phuduhudu, Hukuntsi le Kang.
Ke bo ke dumedise le batlotlegi Mr Speaker, this afternoon.

47 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading Molao o ke o eme nokeng mme e bile ke dumalana le one gore o baakanngwe, bogolo jang ka gore re bua jalo ka go baakanya tsa financial intelligence tsa gore madi a a tlhatswitsweng a a tsenang mo lefatsheng la rona a re isa kwa grey listing.
Ditshutiso tse tsotlhe tsa bo Receipt and Instruments, Virtual Assets le Trust Property di a tsamaelana fa o ka lebelela because ke dingwe tse re tshwanetseng gore re di lebelele thata, bogolo jang fa re bua ka go tlhatswa madi.

Fa e le yone e Mr Speaker, re tshwanetse go e lebelela.

Fela jaaka o utlwa batlotlegi ba ntse ba bua because nako e tlile gore tota re fedise borukutlhi, gape re fokotse le go emisa le gone go utswela lefatshe la rona.
Re emise go ikutswetsa, re bo re emise tshenyetso-setšhaba Mr Speaker.

Fa ke baya dilo tse fa pele, fa re ka di emisa, le yone itsholelo ya rona e tlaa tokafala, le bone bana ba tlile go bona ditiro Mr Speaker.

Tshutiso e e bua bogolo jang ka yone tshenyetso-setšhaba.

Madi a a fufulelwa Mr Speaker.

Ba ba itseng dikgwebo ba re business e tshwana le thaba; e ya kwa godimo le kwa tlase mme fa o ka bona e le gore e tlhamaletse fela, o bo itse gore e na le bogodu, e bo e tlhokana le bone ba DCEC.
E tlhoka gore e tlhotlhomisiwe, e bo e le gore molao o… HONOURABLE Honourable Minister.

MEMBER: Clarification MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ee rra.

MR SPEAKER: Clarification sought, from the voice ke rraarona Motlotlegi Rraetsho Mothusa Tautona; Your Honour the Vice President (VP).

MR TSOGWANE: Clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re o simolotse sentle, o tlhabile ditema sentle mme o tlhalose.
Kana Batswana ba ba reeditseng kwa ntle ka fa wena o buang ka teng le bangwe ba e leng gore fa ba bua ba le mo kganetsong ka fa ba buang ka teng, o ka bona pharologano e e seng kana ka sepe.

Go simolola fela o bo o re “rona Batswana re ititeye ka thupana re se ka ra itshenyetsa.” O sa bue jaaka dibui tse dingwe le yo o sa tswang go bua, yo o buang ka Domkrag fela a bo a supa gore maDomkrag ke bone ba ba senyang e bile o kare go isiwa madi kwa go Tautona.
Tota dikgang tse fa o lebile Mma Monnakgotla, ke tse di ka thusang setšhaba kana ke tse di batlang gore labofelo e bo e le gore disenyi tse di bonalang kwa opposition, tsone jaanong di sireletsegile ka gore gatwe leitlho le lebe kwa go Domkrag le maDomkrag?

Thank you.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ke a leboga VP.

Ke ne ke bua jaaka motsadi le mme yo o tsetseng bana, ke bua ka bana botlhe.
Fa o utlwa ke ne ke re a re tlogeleng go itshenyetsa, ke ne ke bua ka bana botlhe, ke sa re moDomkrag e bile ke sa re mo UDC, ke re a re tlogeleng go itshenyetsa re le Batswana.

E bile o mpoditse sentle VP gore a go se ka gatwe maDomkrag ba a senya ka gore fela fa batho ba tla ba re maDomkrag ba a senya mme e le bone ba ba senyang.

Ke sone se o bonang ka gore ke motsadi, ke mme, ke mma bana, ke ne ke re a re tlogeleng go itshenyetsa rona Batswana.
Ke sone se o bonang ke e bua sentle ka gore ke itse ka fa ngwana a buisiwang ka teng ka gore ke godisitse bana.

Ke e beye fela jalo ke re a Batswana ba utlwe gore dilo tse, fa o tsena mo Botswana o tsaya boagedi jwa Botswana o Motswana.

Ke sone se ke reng Batswana a re tlogeleng go itshenyetsa.

Batlotlegi ba ne ba bua gore le one molao o fela jaaka o bua gore fa e le gore o ya to deposit madi, ba banka ba sa itse gore o a tsaya kae a le kanakana, ba tshwanetse gore ba go botse gore madi ao o a tsaya kae.
A o moDomkrag, o le opposition, o motswakwa, o ngaka kana o eng ka gore madi a re tshwanetse go itse gore a tswa kae e bile a ya kae.

Madi a tshwanetse go nna le receipts mme e bile le dikgwebo, re rotloetsa le gone gore go di nne le tsone.

Kgwebo nngwe le nngwe e nne le receipts.

Ke a dumalana le molao o thata fa gotwe go nne le private, bone ba ba tlaabong ba tsentse leitlho; batlhotlhomisi ba sephiri ka gore tshenyetso-setšhaba e ntsi.
Re a itshenyetsa rona Batswana mme re sa dire receipts mme e bile gape go diga yone kgwebo ya gago.

Mmereki a go senyetsa o mo reile o re o se ka wa dira receipts gore re se ka ra duela lekgetho.

Ga o tsietse Goromente mme o a itsietsa.

Mmereki yo ke ene yo o yang go go senyetsa.

A re direng receipts re duele lekgetho.


A re direng dilo tsa rona sentle gore madi a bonale gore a tswa kae, a ya kae ka gore ga re batle madi a a tlhatswitsweng mo lefatsheng la rona, a re itseng gore gore o bo o na le selo seo, o se tsaya kae; gore o bo o na le property eo, a e nne le motlhala.

Le mo Baebeleng ya re mongwe le mongwe o tlaa ja mofufutso wa phatla ya gagwe.

E a rialo Baebele.

Jaanong fa re ka itse dilo tse, re ka dira dilo tsa rona sentle, e bile re tlaa tswa le mo grey-list.
Re tlaa tsamaisana le FATF.

E re re baakanya melao ya rona, e bo e le gore dilo tsa rona di tsamaya sentle Mr Speaker.

Assets tsa bogodu ga se dilo tse di siameng.

A dilo tseo di tsewe mo go bone, di bo di beelwa nako ya gore di a rekisiwa.

48 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading Fa e le gore go tsewa koloi ya bogodu, a e tsewe kgang eo e tlhotlhomisiwe e fele.
Dikoloi tseo di se ka tsa ema lebaka, e bo e le gore kgantele dipeba di ja megala, e bo di sa tlhole di na le boleng.

A re boneng gore re tsenya molao o, mo tirisong.

Re bone gore molao o, ke one o o ka re berekelang re lebeletse thata tsone tseo.

Letlhoko la ditiro le ya go fokotsega, e bile lefatshe la rona le ya go felela le nna le madi.
Mr Speaker, ba ba sa direng receipts ba re ba tshaba go dira lekgetho, ke utlwile Motlotlegi Lucas a bua gore batho go tlaabo go tsewa dilo mo go bone, ba tlhotlhomisiwa gotwe ga ba a duela makgetho.

Motlotlegi Lucas, o tlhokana le tsela le clinic kwa kgaolong ya gago.

Batho ba tshwanetse go duela, e bile ba rutiwe gore lekgetho ke eng.

Ke ka fa re ka fokotsang money laundering le borukutlhi jo ka teng.

Mr Speaker, re a itse gore fa re ntse re bua jaana, Batswana ba le bantsi ba reeditse.
Ke kopa Tona Mmusi gore a re ruteng Batswana ka melao e. A e re re sena go fetisa melao e re le batlotlegi, re ye kwa dikgaolong tsa rona re rute Batswana.

Fa e setse e tla go tsena mo tirisong, Batswana ba tlhaloganye, e bile ba itse.

Batswana ba tlile go itse mme re tlaa felela re tswa mo grey-lists tseo, re fokotsa borukutlhi.

Mr Speaker, mma ke se ka ka tsaya nako gore batlotlegi ba bangwe ba bue.

Ke ema Tshutiso e nokeng.

Ke a leboga.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Procedure.

Tanki Mr Speaker.


O tlaa re thusa, golo fa go nna le tlhobaelo mo setšhabeng ba ipotsa gore go diragala eng, naare Mapalamente a bone a kae?

Fa o lebelela Honourable Monnakgotla, re filwe gore 9 is 5, a bua mo sengwe le sengweng ka ntlha ya Domkrag.

Batho ba tlaa ipotsa gore Honourable Letsholo le Honourable Majaga ba kae?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga o moDomkrag.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O sha ntshu o ogola eng?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Order!


Please Honourable Kekgonegile jaaka Motlotlegi Mopalamente mongwe le mongwe, o na le tshwanelo ya go botsa le go bua.

Ke go sireleditse Honourable Kekgonegile.

fela MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki Mr Speaker.

Ke wetse ke re, ga se gore setšhaba se tloga se ipotsa dipotso gore a Mapalamente a mangwe ga a bewa ka fa mosing kana gongwe ga ba yo?

Jaaka Mothusa Tona yo mosha a ne a bua maloba, o akgolelwa go bereka thata.
Ba bangwe ba seegetswe ka fa thoko, ka o bereka thata, ke ene a fiwang jalo ke Domkrag.

MR SPEAKER: Ke go utlwile le wena o a rumolana.

O rumolana thata ke go utlwile.

A ko o tlogele ba bangwe.

MR MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): Mma ke go leboge Mr Speaker go bo o nneetse nako e. Ke batla go simolola ka go tlhalosa gore Molao- kakanyetso o wa Proceeds and Instruments of Crime, o lebanye.
Se se ntshwenyang go gaisa ke gore fa o lebelela ka fa dilo di tsamayang ka teng, thatathata mo go tsa crime mo lefatsheng la Botswana, o tlaa lemoga gore re na le mathata a gore cases di tsaya lebaka le le leele di ise di sekiwe.

Cases tse di sekiwang di tsaya lebaka le le leele di sa fele.

Fa gongwe fa di sena go nna di fela, tiragatso ya molao gore e dirwa jang, e tsaya lebaka le le leele.
Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, e re ntswa re ikaelela go baakanya molao o gore o tsene mo tseleng o tle go direla Batswana tshiamo, ke tshwenngwa ke gore re ka nna ra paledisiwa ke melao e mengwe e e setseng e le teng mme e sa perform mo nakong ya gompieno.

Fa o lebelela, go na le cases tse di tsayang lebaka le le leele.

Motho a ne a gapetswe sengwe seven or 10 years ago.
Go tlile go dira gore e re ntswa re tshwenyegile re batla gore re gapele batho dilo tse e leng gore ke proceeds of crime, re ya go iphitlhela e le gore cases tse, di felela di re latlhegetse.

Re ya go felela re duela ba re neng re ba tshwaretse dilo madi a a gaisang a re batlang go a tsaya.

Se re tshwanetseng go se tlhaloganya ke gore, mo nakong ya gompieno jaaka Honourable Keorapetse a sa tswa go tlhalosa gore dithoto tse di seng kana ka sepe di mo matsogong a ga Goromente.
Re a itse molao o o tsamaisang ba the receiver.

Ba a tlhalosa gore dithoto tse di tsewang ke the receiver di tshwanelwa ke gore a di buse di le mo seemong se se tshwanang le se a di tsereng di ntse ka teng.

Ke sone se ke reng, fa e le gore tsamaiso ya makgotlatshekelo a rona e tlaa tsamaya ka fa go ntseng go diragala ka teng, dikgang di kgona go tsaya dingwagangwaga, dithoto tsa batho di ya go senyega, ba bo ba fenya ditsheko.
Go raya gore Goromente o ya go duela madi a a seng kana ka sepe a a fetang a re batlang go a tsaya mo bathong ba re dumelang gore ba senyetsa lefatshe le.

Gompieno jaana Mr Speaker, o tlaa gakologelwa gore go na le dikgomo tse di mo matsogong a ga Goromente tse di swang di bolawa ke mauba le malwetse.

Dikgomo tse jaaka molao o tlhalosa, di tshwanelwa ke gore di boe di le mo seemong se di tserweng di le mo go sone.
Fa di tsweletse di swa kwa di swelang teng, tse dingwe di bopama di lwala, go raya gore nako e beng ba tsone ba fenyang dikgetsi tsa bone, Goromente o ya go felela a 49 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading duela madi a a seng kana ka sepe.

Beng ba tsone ga ba ka ke ba di tsaya di tlhaela, di le mo seemong se di neng di se mo go sone ka nako eo.
Jaanong ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, ke sone se ke neng ke re e re fa re leka go baakanya molao o jaaka re leka go o baakanya, mme gape a re sekasekeng go bona gore a me ga re ka ke ra itirela mathata go gaisa, e le gore re tlile go felela re itiela batho ka lebaka la gore courts tsa rona di tsaya lebaka le le leele go ka fetsa dikgang tse.
Tota fela re tshwanelwa ke gore before re itumelela gore re tla ka molao o, re lebelele le turnaround time ya dikgetsi fa di le kwa court gore e ntse ka tsela e e ntseng jang, re tle re kgone go ipaakanya gone foo, fa re sena go nna re ipaakanya, e bo e le gore re itse gore melao e mengwe jaaka wa Proceeds of Crime e ya go bereka, jaanong e berekela mo system kgotsa mo tsamaisong e e berekang.
Jaanong Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re kgang e re e lebe ka tsela e e ntseng jalo ka gore fa re sa e lebe jalo, re tlile go iphitlhela re le mo mathateng a a gakgamatsang.

Ke belaela gore gongwe sengwe sa dilo tse Mr Speaker, re tle re leke go se bona, ke gore fa e le gore gongwe cases di dintsi, kana cases fela ka go farologana, re leke to prioritise tse re bonang e le gore go di tlogela ka lebaka le le leele, go ya go re direla mathata.
Fa re sa di prioritise, re ya go iphithela Mr Speaker, re le mo mathateng a a seng kana ka sepe.

O a itse le wena Mr Speaker, gore re tlile gone mo Palamenteng ya Botswana gompieno, bangwe ba rona kgotsa mongwe wa rona kana mang, go na le dingwaga dikoloi tsa bone di tserwe.

Ke belaela gore dikoloi tsa bone tse di tshwerweng koo, tse di mo letsatsing, tse e ne e le tsa madi a mantsi, e tlaare fa e le gore batho ba tlaa felela ba fentse dikgetsi tse, re ya go duela batho ba madi a a seng kana ka sepe.
Ke sone Mr Speaker, ke reng, a re lekeng gore fa e le gore re tshwanelwa ke to prioritise, re bone gore dikgetsi tse re ka di ntshang mo tseleng, e tlaabo e le tsa mofuta mang, re dire jalo go tshaba gore e tle e re kwa bofelong, fa re latlhegelwa ke dikgetsi, a bo e le gore re felela re duela batho madi a a seng kana ka sepe, jaaka e ke buang ka yone, gongwe koloi ya gagwe e ne e tura, re ka felela re nna le mathata.

MR MOTSAMAI: Clarification.

Tla ke go leboge Mr Speaker.


Ke batle gore motlotlegi a tlhatswe kgang e thata le ba Ghanzi South ba utlwe gore dikgang tse tota ga di a re ema sentle.

Fa le bua ka dikgomo kana le ntlhaba mo pelong.


Go na le Artificial Insemination (AI) nngwe kwa kgaolong ya me, e dikgomo tsotlhe, dipodi le dipitsi tse di utswiwang, ba sepodise ka ga ba na mabeelo a a rileng, di felela di bewa koo, mme di tsaya dingwagangwaga, tse dingwe di tsala, di swa, di timela, go kgaolwa diterata, a o raya gore diemo tse rraetsho, ke tsone tse o reng di potlakelwe batho ba se ka ba senyegelwa le go feta?
MR MMOLOTSI: Ee, tota dikgang tsa me Honourable Motsamai, ke tsone tseo ka gore re a itse gore re tshwere ditsabatho, kgotsa the Receiver o tshwere ditsabatho; madi a a gakgamatsang, e ka nna dikgomo, movable assets, dikoloi kana matlo.

Mr Speaker, ka re, ga re ka leka go bona gore re ipaakanya koo, gore e tle e re jaaka re tsena mo paakanyong ya melao e e ntseng jaana, re bo re itse gore mo melaong e mengwe re siame, ga re ka ke ra iphithela e le gore re mo mathateng.
Nnyaa, mme Honourable Motsamai, ke dumela gore re tshwanelwa ke go ema ka dinao go bona gore re a ipaakanya, re baakanya melao ya rona, gone jaaka re dira…(Inaudible)... kgotsa re amend o o tshwanang le wa Proceeds and Instrument of Crime, re bo re itse gore mme mo go e mengwe e e tsamaelanang le one o, re siame.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, gongwe ke simolole fela jalo, ke supe gore molao o ke dumalana le paakanyo ya one.
Ke tsaya gore go oketsa batho ba ba tshwanang le ba bo BURS, gore re nne le batho ba ba tlhotlhomisang ba le palo e e botoka, it is a right ...(Inaudible)… in the right direction, e e ka re thusang ka lebaka la gore seemo se sa borukutlhi se tsere phekelo e sele, mme se tlhoka gore se emelwe ka dinao, se tlhoka batho ba le bantsi, maphata a pataganele thulaganyo e gore re tle re kgone go fenya ntwa e. Borukuthi mo dingwageng tsa gompieno, bo godile mo go seng kana ka sepe.
Bo godile ka sebopego se se gakgamatsang, even le batho ba ba sophisticated ka fa borukutlhi ba bo dirang ka teng.

Batho ba na le madi a a gakgamatsang.

Batswana mo nakong ya gompieno, fa o lebelela salaries le incomes tsa bone, di itshiametse fela.
Ba na le apartments kwa bo Durban, ba reka matlo kwa bo Central London, le Cape Town, o felela o ipotsa le wena gore naare madi a a kanakana a, a a rekang apartments tse di rekwang kwa mafatsheng a sele, a tswa kwa kae ka gore fa o lebelela salaries tsa batho ba, ke salaries fela tsa Modimo, ga ba na incomes tse dingwe tse di tshwanang le tsa dikgwebo, mme madi a mantsi ba na le one.
Ke sone se ke dumelang gore Mr Speaker, re tshwanelwa ke go emela kgang e ya tshenyetso-setšhaba, ya bogodu kgotsa ya go senya ka dinao, ka lebaka la 50 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading gore re setse re bona gore Goromente wa lefatshe la rona madi a gagwe a nyelela letsatsi le letsatsi, madi a fedile, e bile a tlaa tswelela a fela.
e tsamaelanang le one o, kgotsa e e dirisanang le one o gore ope molao o se ka wa paledisa o mongwe gore o kgone go dira tiro ka botswerere.

Honourable Matsheka maloba o ne a re tlhalosetsa gore in all the mega projects tse di dirwang mo lefatsheng la Botswana, 37 per cent wa madi a tsena ka diphatlha tsa menwana.

Dilo tse Mr Speaker, fa re di kopakopanya, re a kgona go bona gore kana lefatshe la rona le mo mathateng, mme le ya go sele.
Re tshwanelwa ke go ema ka dinao go leka go thiba diphatlha tse, otherwise re tlaabo re tsweletse re le lefatshe ngwaga le ngwaga, re declare deficit, ka lebaka la gore madi a re a dirang a a tlhaela, mme e bile ga go na kwa re ka bonang a mangwe teng.
Re ya go tswelela foreign reserves tsa rona di bopama jaaka di bopama gompieno, e le gore madi a lefatshe la Botswana a tsena ka diphatlha tsa menwana, ga a sologele Batswana molemo, a sologelela ba ba mo seemong se se siametseng go senya, e nna bone ba ba felelang ba le mo seemong se se siameng.

Ka mafoko a a kalo Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re ke eme jalo gore re tle re kgone go tswelela.

MR SPEAKER: Ke a go leboga Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Francistown South, e bile ke bo ke go leboge thata motlotlegi.
O rutile “ngwene”, di re tsentse “ngwene.” Batlotlegi Mapalamente jaaka bo Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Ngami, ke lantlha a utlwa lefoko la “ngwene.” Tswelelang jalo batlotlegi le bue sentle Setswana se se phepha jaaka le se bua.

Go ya go bua rraarona Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Serowe West.

MR KHAMA (SEROWE WEST): Tanki Mr Speaker.

Ke itumetse, ke a go dumedisa rra.


Kgang e e buaiwang rra e siame, ke dumalana le paakanyo ya molao o. Mr Speaker, ke dumalane le gore molao wa Proceeds and Instrument of Crime re o baakanye, gore o tle o kgone go re thusa go laola tshenyetso-setšhaba.

Bakaulengwe ba setse ba buile gore re a itse gore go na le dikompone tsa merafe e e farologaneng, tse e seng tsa Batswana, tse di falotsang madi.
Re a itse gore go na le merafe mengwe ba e leng gore ga ba beye madi kwa dibankeng, jaanong ke dilo tse di re tsentseng ngwene Mr Speaker.

Re tshwanelwa ke go ema ka dinao, re ipotse le rona gore naare batho fa ba sa beye madi kwa bankeng, gatwe madi a ba a baya kwa kae, mme gape re tsweletse ka go bona batho ba ba dirang dikgwejwana, ga se dikgwebo tse di kalokalo.
Motho yo a dira madi a a seng kana ka sepe, o ipotsa gore a mme o dira madi ka yone kgwebo e, kana kgewebo e ke mo go re bayang bobi matlhong fela, go na le tsela e a dirang madi ka yone.

Mo re felelang re belaela gore dikgwebo tse dingwe tota, di a bo di beetswe foo fela gore nnyaa, Batswana ba tseye gore ke kgwebo ya go rekisa diaparonyana, le eng le leng, tota motho gongwe a dira madi ka ditagi, a dira madi ka tse dingwe tse di sa letlelesegeng mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Ke dilo tse re tshwanelwang ke go di emela ka dinao, re di tlhotlhomise re bone gore naare gatwe golo fa lefatshe la Botswana, seemo se sa borukuthi re ka se lwantsha ka tsela e e e ntseng jang.
Dilo tse Mr Speaker, re ka di kgona fa e le gore re ka tswelela ka gore fa re baakanya melao e, re ka bo re ntse re lebelela melao e Ke na le ngongorego, ngongorego ya me ke gore fa re bua ka madi a a dirwang mo Botswana, melao e e sala madi morago a a iswang kwa bankeng, a re yang go reka dilwana ka one fela jalojalo.

Kgang ya me ke gore, ga gona fa go buiwang ka drugs fa.

Se se ntshwenyang ke gore batho bontsi fa batla ka drugs, ba di rekisetsa bana ba rona gongwe le gongwe fa ba tsamayang teng.
Rona re le Batswana, ga re kgalemele ditshenyego tse di tshwanang le tse.

Melao e ga e bue sepe ka dilo tseo.

Batho ba ba itseng ka drugs, o tlaa bona gore ke bone ba ba tlwaetseng go tshwara magodu kana batho ba ba rekisang.

Ke batla go itse Mr Speaker fa re lebile, that time for example fa go ntse go tsomiwa kana go utswa dinaka tsa ditshukudu, kwa black market ya kwa Asia lenaka le lengwefela la tshukudu le rekisiwa ka US$65,000.00 per Kilogram (kg).
Dinaka tse di neng di tswa mo Botswana, re tswa go bona gore ba di tshwere kwa mafatsheng.

Jaanong melao e ga e bue sepe ka tse, le rona ga re kgalemele gore batho ba se ka ba tsoma diphologolo tse kana ba di utswa, re ba tlogetse.

Fa e le gore re batla go baakanya ka re itse batho ba ba tsileng go tsenya madi mo account tsa bone, mme ba bangwe re ba tlogela, ra reng ka melao e. Melao e is not holistic, e na le grey areas tse dintsi thata mo go yone.
Tona wa Mapodise le Masole a iteke, ba ye go tswala, ba kganele batho bao gore ba se ka ba tswa ka dilwana tse, ka gore ke madi a mantsi fa o akanya US$65,000.00 per kg.

Jaanong re ntse re bua ka batho ba ba tswang 51 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading mafatsheng, re a itse gore re raya bomang, ba ba rekisang t-shirts, le ba setse morago.
Ga se gore re ba tlogele, nnyaa ke rialo, mme go na le ba bangwe ba ba re palelang mme re a ba tlogela.

Jaanong melao e rra, ka fa ke e bonang ka teng it is very deficient.

It has got a lot of grey areas mo go yone.

The simplest thing ke gore re ye go bona gore jaanong semangmang o tsentse bokae mo account ya gagwe, re bo re boa gape re re re batla go mo tlhasela.

A re yeng go botsa gore madi a tswa kae, a supe gore o tswa go a tsaya kae.
Ba bangwe ba tsena fela mo dikoleng ba rekisetsa bana ba rona drugs, mme re a ba tlogela kana re ba tlogetse.

Mr Speaker, this law is very deficient and inefficient ka boyone in what it is attempting to do it is only scratching the surface.

Ga se gore e tsenetse kwa teng tota.

Ke na le matshwenyego ka melao e ka gore gape ga e bue sepe gore re ya go kopa Mapodise, Masole kana maDIS gore ba dire tiro ya bone, gore ditshenyegelo tse di emisiwe.
Nnyaa, re bua fela gore re ya go bona gore madi a a tsenyeng mo account ya ga mang.

Yo mongwe a bo a re motho yo wa gago ke dipula fela ga a tseye ...(Inaudible)… no, that is nothing, ka gore madi a t-shirts le dilo tse di tshwanang jaaka stock sweets ga se madi a sepe.

Fa e le gore re batla gore melao e e re berekele, a re lebe dilo tsotlhe e seng tse dingwe tse e leng gore ra re tse re ka di kgona, mme tse dingwe ga re di kgone, so re ya go di tlogela gone foo.

Sa ntlha.
Sa ntlha.

Sa bobedi e le sa bofelo ke gore, go na le mephato e mengwe e ba lebaganeng le melao e. Re a itse gore ba bangwe ba ne ba re ba tlhasela batho ba re re tsile go le tseela se le se, ka gore re le tlhasetse ka dikgang tsa polotiki.

Jaanong ka fa go ntse jaana, re tsile go le tseela se, re tsile go le tlhasela ka go le tseela dilwana tsa lona kana go tsaya dikoloi tsa lona kana go tsaya madi a lona fela jalo.

Ba romilwe, otherwise ga ba utlwane le batho ba bangwe.
So melao e e tshwanetse go lebaganngwa le batho ba e leng gore fa ba ka dira jalo, ba ya go seka jang.

Fa motho a senyetsa motho botshelo ka dikgang tse di lebaganeng le dipolotiki le dikgang tse dingwe fela, re ba sekisa jang batho ba.

Melao e e didimetse mo kgannyeng e, it is just very very shallow.

Mr Speaker, fa e le gore re ya go tswelela ka melao e ga re ka ke ra re ka fa re a baakanya, mme ka fa ga re baakanye re a tlogela.
That is going to create a grey area, batho ba tlile go feta fela gone foo.

Jaaka re ntse re bua ka drugs, ba simolotse, rotlhe re a itse, mme ga o ise o utlwe Tona wa Mapodise, Masole le maDIS o mo utlwa a bua sepe mo Palamenteng e, le fa e le 11th Parliament, 12th Parliament a bua a re ba ya go lwantsha kgang e jang.

Ba didimetse.
Ba didimetse.

Se sengwe gape ke a gakgamala, fa re re re thiba fa, Tona wa Mapodise o batla go tla ka melao e mengwe e e reng go ka dirwang passports tse e seng tsone kana Identification (ID).

Re a reng jaanong, ka fa re leka go thiba mme ka fa re bulela mathata a mangwe.

So that ka ga fiwa motho legally incorrect travel or logistical documents.

So, what are we saying?

Tota Palamente e e ya reng jaanong.


Re batla go thiba ka fa, mme ka fa re bulela bogodu jo bongwe gape gore motho a kgone go ya mafatsheng a tshotse passport kana ID e e seng ya gagwe, mme re batla go lwantsha dikgang tse.

Nnyaa Speaker, ke a go kopa tsweetswee!

tsenyang Palamente e ya lona mo tseleng.

Dilo tse ga di a wela sentle, ka fa re a baakanya, ka fa re baakanya go senya.

Nnyaa Mr Speaker, a re boeleng kwa morago re akanye gore tota re dira eng ka dikgang tse.
Ga re ka ke ra tla fa ra re re ya go dira jaana le jaana.

Ke mafoko a a gakgamatsang.

Nnyaa, go na le kwa re senyang teng.

Melao e re e lebaganye le e mengwe, ga re ka ke ra re re ya go senya kafa, re baakanya kafa.

It is hypocrisy of the highest note.


Fa e le gore Tona o dumalana le melao e, ka gore di tla ka motho a le mongwefela Rre Mmusi, nnyaa fa a sale a ikakanya sentle gore tota o dira eng, ka gore mafatshe a mangwe ba tlaa re lona ba le tswang ka passports tsa Botswana, ga re itse gore a ke wena tota, a o motho yo passport e reng ke wena… HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: May we have order please.
MR KHAMA: …fa motho a bo a tsaya documents tse Bill e a batlang go tla ka yone, e bo e le gore semangmang a filwe identity ya motho yo mongwe, a bo a tsamaya ka proceeds of crime a bo a ya go bula account kwa a e bulang teng, kana a ya go reka drugs o ya go tshwarwa jang, ka gore ga re itse gore ke mang jaanong.

Passport le Omang tse, gatwe melao ya ga Rre Mmusi e letlelela gore motho o tlaa nna a fiwa permit, Omang kana passport e e leng ya motho yo mongwe.
At the same time we are saying, re batla go emisa dilo tse in this Bill.

Mr Speaker, tota ga ke bone gore Tona o tswa go ikakanya sentle kana o tswa go tlhalosetswa sentle ke batho ba ba kwalang melao e. Nna kopo ya me fela ke gore melao e, e tlaa tla e le nosi e tla e kopantse le melao yotlhe, ka gore le tlile go …(inaudible)…Batswana fa le tla ka melao e e tswanang le e e le piecemeal.

Ga o ka ke wa re berekela ka gore le tswala ka fa le bula ka fa.
Le bulela mang, le a mpulelela kana le bulela Batswana?… (Interruptions!)

… 52 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba a ipuelela, ba a ipulela TK.

MR SPEAKER: Order Honourable Member for Sefhare-Ramokgonami.

MR KHAMA: …(Inaudible)… Legale le o dire, nna ke felela gone fa.

Tanki rra.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ntimile clarification ntsalaka.

MR SPEAKER: Order!
MR SPEAKER: Order!

Ke tshwanelo ya gagwe gore a go time, ga a patikwe ke sepe go go neela.

the chapter, Honourable Member responsible for Honourable Thomas Kagiso Mmusi, please respond to the debate.

If you could be as brief as possible ka gore we have got another chapter to address.

MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Tanki Tshwene, ga ke ka ke ka ya lololo Tshwene.

MR SPEAKER: Tanki Tshwene.


MR MMUSI: Ke tlaa di tsaya ka boripana ka gore, tota botlhe ba ne ba dumalana le nna, supporting go tswa fela ka ene Honourable Keorapetse, he was supporting.

Mme o ne a gakolola fa a gakololang teng, e bile a gakolola thata gore lephata le la Receiver le tshwanetse go thusiwa le okediwe gore le nne bodiredi jo bo rileng.

Ke dumalana le ene.

Honourable Kapinga le ene o ne a le foo, ba ne ba bua gore re nne le bodiredi, botlhe fela.

Lephata le le ntse le le teng le dira tiro.


Kana ke dikgang tse di thusitseng thata gore re kgone go tswa from grey listing.

Jaanong ke sone se o bonang le gompieno re baakanya melao fale le fale gore e tle e siame.

E netefatse gore ga re sa tlhole re boela kwa morago.

These were the deficiencies tse di neng di fitlhetswe.

Jaanong ke dumalana le bone.


Mo bekeng e e tlang kana e e kwa pele re tlaabo re ya kwa Budget Speech, e e tlaabong e e fa Lephata le la rona la Ministry of Defence, Justice and Security madi.

Ke kopa gore le bone ba re eme nokeng, support us, ka gore re tlhoka madi a gore re tle go emeletsa maphata a a farologanyeng a a leng mo ministry o.

Re tle go bona gore a a diragala, gore melao e re kgone go e diragatsa.

Melao e ke melao fela e mentle, botlhe ba a e amogela.
Honourable Molale, Honourable Molebatsi, Honourable Moagi, Honourable Lucas, mafoko a Kgotla a mantle otlhe rraetsho, ke a leboga.

Le Honourable Khama o buile dikgang tsa gagwe ke mo utlwile.

Dikgang tse a neng a di bua tse tsa passports, e tlaa re fa Bill ya Criminal Procedure and Evidence (Controlled Investigations) Bill, 2022 (No.

1 of 2022) e tsena mo floor, ke dumela gore foo ke tlaa mo araba ke baakanya, ka tlhalosa dilo tsotlhe tse a neng a di bua, a di ngongoregela.
Gompieno ga di tsamaelane le Bill e e leng mo tafoleng gone jaanong that we are discussing kana that I am responding to.

Ke kopa gore a tle a nne teng a tle a akgele mo go e e tlaa tlang e ya 2022.

Eo e tlaa re fa ke e bala ke e balolola, ke tlhalose dikgang tse e leng gore Honourable Khama o ntse a bua ka tsone, gore ke kgone go mo tlhalosetsa dikgang tse a ntseng a di bua tse a reng, passports, batho ba tlaa ya go rekisa.

Ke eng ba tsaya passports, ba tsaya bo Omang ka fa, ke tlaa tlhalosa.
I think golo mo ga re a tshwanela gore fa re le boeteledipele, re le bagolo, re tsietse batho re ba neele information tse e seng tsone.

A re nneng re bala melao e e beilweng fa pele ga rona and respond jaaka fa e ntse.

Golo moo ke boeteledipele jo re bo rometsweng go tla mo Palamenteng.

Re se ka ra tla go ntsha false information.

Ba ke ba lebogang ke bone ba ba neng ba bua thata gore lephata le le tshwanetse to be capacitated.
Le ba neng ba bua gore bosekisi bo itlhaganele fa bona le cases tse di ntseng jaana, bo itlhaganele gore go bonwe gore dithoto tse di a rekisiwa ka pela.

Ke dumalana le bone gore fa e leng gore basekisiwa ga ba bonwe molato ba busediwe dithoto tsa bone ka pela.

It is cheaper gore dithoto di itlhokomelelwe ke mong wa tsone go na le rona re le Puso.

Nako e nngwe gape le rona fa re tla go di rekisa ga re ka ke ra bona madi a re a solofetseng.

Mme foo gone ke dumalana le bone.


Ke dikgang tse re ntseng re di tshwere mo lephateng gore re leke go bua le ba bosekisi gore ba itlhaganelele dikgang tse.

Response ya me fela e kalo.

Ke leboge botlhe fela ba ba buileng… MR TSHERE: On a point of clarification.

Thank you Honourable Speaker and thank you Honourable Mmusi for this, I think it is a very brief and straightforward one.

A re ye kwa Clause 3 e e buang ka penalties, so that you can address our concerns nna le Honourable Kekgonegile.
MR MMUSI: Nnyaa I am responding, ga ke boele to the Clauses.

Iketle pele.

MR TSHERE: …(Inaudible)…kana you will be dodging kgang and batlhophi ba batla go tlhaloganya gore fa one million ke ten years, mo gongwe one million ke 12 years, what are we saying?

How did you arrive to this number, wena?

53 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022PROCEEDS AND INSTRUMENTS OF CRIME (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

39 OF 2021) Second Reading MR MMUSI: Wa re fa ke reng?
MR TSHERE: Fa penalty ke one million dingwaga tsa kgolegelo ke 10 years.

How did you arrive to that, on Clause 3 ya gago e?

MR MMUSI: What do you mean how did I arrive to that?

Kana golo mo ke seelo se re se bayang.

Ke lekile go go tlhalosetsa kgang e le maabane gore, fa go beilwe go ntse jaana Judge ke ene a yang go felela deciding gore ene o tsamaela fa kae akere.

Kgang e o letse o e boditse le maabane mo… MR TSHERE: O ne a sa e bua maabane.

MR MMUSI: Nnyaa, ke ne ka e bua maabane.


MR TSHERE: Judge decides, rona jaanong re … (Interruptions)… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Tshere, we do not run Parliament like that.

Let the Honourable Minister explain and avoid dialogue.

MR MMUSI: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ka mafoko ao mma ke leboge ke bo ke re Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Proceeds and Instruments of Crime (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

39 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee-Later Date.


COUNTER TERRORISM (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

40 OF 2021) Second Reading MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much.

Order!

Order!

Honourable Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration, please present your Bill.

responsible FOR PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

Ke a dumedisa e bile ke a ikokobetsa mongwame.


Ke dumedise batlotlegi botlhe ba ba mo Ntlong e. I have the honour to present before this Honourable House, for second reading, Counter Terrorism (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

40 of 2021).

The Counter Terrorism Act (Cap.

08:08) was promulgated in 2013 to provide for measures to prevent and combat acts of terrorism, including financing of terrorism and to establish the Counter-Terrorism Analysis and Fusion Agency.
Mr Speaker, as you are aware, this Bill is amongst others identified to close some of the gaps identified in the mutual evaluation report which recommend for better national cooperation and coordination.

In addition, as a result of the proposed enactment of the Financial Intelligence Act, consequential amendments are necessary to align certain provisions of the Financial Intelligence Bill.
Therefore, the object of the Bill is to augment the Counter Terrorism Act as follows: first Mr Speaker, by amending the definition of “investigating officer” so that only officers of the Botswana Police Service will be mandated to investigate crimes in accordance with the Police Act while the officers of the Directorate of Intelligence and Security and the Botswana Defence Force will gather intelligence.
Secondly, by amending the definition of the words “act of terrorism” so that the wording is the same as that of the Financial Intelligence Bill of 2021 and the Nuclear Weapons (Prohibition) Act of 2018.

Thirdly, by inserting the definition of the word “proliferation” to expand financing of terrorism offences to include the offence of financing a proliferation and biological and chemical weapons.
Fourthly, by providing for a new definition for the word “committee” to align it with new committee and now be constructed under Clause 8 of the Financial Intelligence Bill of 2021 and fifthly to replace the definitions of the words “funds” and “property” so that they have the same meaning as in the Proceeds and Instruments of Crime Act.

Lastly but not least, the Bill also introduces provisions for penalty of offence so that there are appropriate penalties for offenders.
Mr Speaker, Clause 16 amendments Part VII of the Bill in order to bring consistency in alignment to the mandate of the Directorate of Intelligence and Security and the National Coordinating Committee on Financial Intelligence established under the Financial Intelligence Act.
This has been done by replacing Part VII of the Act which established the Counter Terrorism Analysis and Fusion Agency so that if continues its mandate as the Counter Terrorism and Fusion Division under Directorate of Intelligence and Security.

Mr Speaker, it is worth noting that the mandate of the Directorate 54 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022COUNTER TERRORISM (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
40 OF 2021) Second Reading of Intelligence and Security is national security and national security has been defined to include terrorism.

The Counter Terrorism Act and the Intelligence and Security Service Act mandate a …(Inaudible)… of entities with investigating the financing of terrorism.

In addition, both entities report to his Excellency the President on the same matters of terrorism.

Therefore, the amendment seeks to rectify this complicity of mandates.
Clause 17 of the Bill also makes provision for the repeal of the National Counter Terrorism Committee (NCTC) which will be reconstituted as the National Coordinating Committee on Financial Intelligence (NCCFI) under the Financial Intelligence Act and further saving the decisions of the NCTC to be deemed to be decisions of the NCCFI.

Mr Speaker, this concludes my presentation.

I now move that the Counter Terrorism (Amendment) Bill, 2021 (No.

40 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Minister.

Order!

Order!

The matter is open for debate.

Honourable Assistant Minister responsible for Ministry of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development, Member for Francistown East, Honourable Billy.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR BILLY): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Dumelang bakaulengwe.


Mma ke tseye sebaka se ke akgele mo Molao-kakanyetsong o o beilweng pele mo ...(Inaudible)… rraetsho wa... MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, your voice is not coming.

MR BILLY: Oh!

Okay, I did not notice.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, mma ke lebogele gore o bo o mphile sebaka se go bua le Batswana le bakaulengwe Mo molao-kakanyetsong o o botlhokwatlhokwa thata.
Maikaelelo a paakanyo ya Molao-kakanyetso o ke gore re tswale diphatlha tse di leng teng mo molaong o. Diphatlha tse di leng teng tse di dira gore tse re neng re batla go di dira fa go dirwa molao o di se ka tsa diragala kana tsa kgonagala ka fa re neng re eleditse ka teng.

Manokonoko a diphatlha tse di leng teng tse a ka ama batho ba dikgaolo tsa rona.

Kgaolo e ya Francistown e ka amega fela thata ya Francistown East.
Kgaolo e e akaretsa Selepa, Donga, Satellite South, Satellite North, Central, Area S le Pelotelele.

Jaanong se ke tshwanetseng gore ke se dire ke gore gongwe ke lebelele gore definition ya terrorism kana botsoulodi ke eng.

Botsoulodi kana bo ka dirwa ka maikaelelo a mefuta e e farologaneng.

Go ka nna le botsoulodi jo bo dirwang ke mapolotiki, religion le ideology ya gore wena o dumela mo eng.
…Silence… MR BILLY: Gantsi ditumelo tse le sone sepolotiki se, go dirwa ka go tshosetsa batho le go tshosetsa Puso e e leng gore e tlaabo e le mo setilong ka nako yone eo.

Jaanong ke selo se se ka amang botshelo jwa batho thata segolo jang ke lebeletse kgaolo e ke leng mo go yone.

Botsuolodi bo ka dirwa ka tsela e e ntseng jalo?

Mo botsuoloding ga go na mo gotweng ke protests.


Kana mo pusong ya batho ka batho ya democracy, protests, advocacy, go emisa go ya go bereka mme go dirwa ka mokgwa o e leng gore o tlotlegile, e bile o sireletsegile.

Le gone go dirisiwa dikgoka le gone go tshosediwa ga batho.

Tsotlhe tse ke dikgang di gogomosang maikutlo.

Jaanong ke dumela gore ga go na ope yo o ka reng o eletsa gore re tsene mo diemong tse re lebeletse mafatshe a e leng gore a babaletswe ke dikgang tsone tse a a nang le terrorists.
Terrorists ga ba na borders mo gotweng kwa go rona ga ba ka ke ba goroga, ba ka goroga kwa dikgaolong tse di rileng.

Kwa dikgaolong tse di rileng kana kwa mafatsheng a a rileng a e leng gore ba tshwenya thata kwa go one, ba simolotse fela ba tsena ka bongwe ka bongwe go fitlhelela ba tsaya yone taolo ya Puso.
Re a bona kwa Mozambique gore go diragala eng letsatsi le mme kana go babalela le yone itsholelo ka gore go ama lefatshe leo economically go bo go ama the region mme pheletsong go bo go ama lefatshe ka bophara.

Ke sengwe se re tshwanetseng gore fa re filwe nako ya go bua ka dikgang tse di tshwanang le tse, re eme ka dinao fela thata.

The effects tse di tsalwang ke botsolodi ke eng?


Botsuolodi bo ka dira gore batho ba tlhokafale ka dipalo tse di gakgamatsang kana tse di kwa godimo; mo gotweng ke mass killings.

Di ka dira gore kidnappings le tsone e nne tsa dipalo tse di kwa godimo thata.

Gape di ka dira gore go nne le damage of properties, mme properties ke bua ka infrastructures.

Mafatshe a a amiwang ke botsuolodi a a senyega; fa e le gore development level ya bone e ne e le kwa godimo, ba boela kwa morago.
Go bo go nna go dirwa budgets go dirwa selo se se kileng sa dirwa gape.

O lebelele one mafatshe ao gore o fitlhela e le gore go tlhabologa ga bone go bonya ka gore property e e neng e le teng e a 55 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022COUNTER TERRORISM (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

40 OF 2021) Second Reading senngwa ka lebaka lone la gore ditsuolodi di a bo di le gone foo, so go baka a huge harm mo bathong le mo itsholelong.
Ke sengwe se e leng gore re tshwanetse re se ele tlhoko gore botsoolodi bo ka re bakela eng.

Fa re itebaganya le gore molao-kakanyetso o o ne o tlhaela eng, o ne o sa fe dithata, kana ba Directorate of Intelligence and Security Services (DIS), Botswana Defence Force (BDF) le any other law enforcement agencies.

O bo o fitlhela e le gore ga ba fiwe dithata tse di lekaneng to gather intelligence go diragatsa molao.
Jaanong sone seo se a re thusa gore investigation officer o tlaabo a filwe dithata jaanong tsa go lwantsha ditsuolodi.

Ke yone gap e e neng e setse; go ne go setse fela gore go tlhalosiwe definition ya gore investigation officer tiro ya gagwe ke gore o tshwanetse gore a dire tiro e e ntseng jang.

Ke ema nokeng Molao-kakanyetso o kana paakanyo ya Molao-kakanyetso e ke lebeletse mabaka a a tshwanang le one ao.
Se sengwe Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke gore, ke ema nokeng gore the corporate bodies – kana gompieno molao o o ne o itebagantse le individuals ba e leng gore ba dira botsuolodi mme o sa itebaganya le corporate bodies tse e leng gore those individuals ba ba dirang botsuolodi o fitlhela e le gore are sponsored by corporate bodies mme molao o o ne o itlhokomolositse corporate bodies because corporate bodies are organised, and when they are organised, go raya gore tshenyo ya bone e feta ya motho yo mongwe fela.
Ke dumela gore le bone molao o re o baakanye ba kgone to be punished fela jaaka yo o neng a ikemetse a le nosi.

Se sengwe gape molao o wants to align kana go dira gore bo DIS le FIA di tsamaisane mo go lekeng go diragatsa molao one o wa counterterrorism.

Re dira jalo gore go se ka ga re body e nngwe e gogele kwa e nngwe e gogela kwa mme ba diragatsa selo se le sengwe fela.
Ke dumela gore paakanyo e e tlaa dira gore re kgone go lwantsha terrorism e e tsalwang ke sponsorships tse di dirwang ke those bodies tse ke sa tswang go bua ka tsone.

E tlaa dira gape gore financial intelligence re itepatepanye le yone ya gore batho ba dirisa madi ba a tsaya mo sources tse di ntseng jang.
Ke sengwe se re tshwanetseng gore re itse gore the intention ya paakanyo e ke e e siameng, ke e e nang le keletso e e leng gore e na le keletso e e siameng go baakanya diemo tsa itshireletso tsa setšhaba.

Botsuolodi kana terrorism fa bo sa tlhokomelwe or if it is left unchallenged, e ka dira gore batho ba tshelele mo letshogong.

Go tshelela mo letshogong go babalela motho physically, emotionally le ka fa botsogo jwa gagwe fela bo ntseng ka teng even le investment.
You cannot do investment o tshelela mo o sa itseng gore kamoso o tlaabo o le fa kae, so batho ba tlaabo ba tshelela mo letshogong.

Ga go na rule of law fa go nang le botsoolodi; no rule of law.

Bo Goromente are compromised, policies tsa Goromente le tsone ga di diragadiwe ka fa di tshwanetseng go diragadiwa ka teng, pheletsong fela ke gore ga go na Government of the day.

Re tshwanetse re eme ka dinao.


Ba e leng gore already go na le terrorists mo go bone le ba ba senang, e tshwanetse e nne effort ya rona ba rotlhe gore fa re supiwa gore lona lefatshe la Botswana le saletse morago fa, mme ke sone se re tshwanetseng gore re eme ka dinao rotlhe re dire dipaakanyo mo molaong o o ntseng o le teng, o o supafalang gore o na le diphatlha.

Ke dumela gore ka fa re tsamayang ka teng, ke selo se se siameng.
La bofelo kana fa o lebeletse terrorists jaaka ke ne ke bua, ba dira gore mafatshe a ba leng mo go one ao, a ba senyang mo go one, e nne havens for criminals.

Bogodu le jone bo a gola ka gore ga go na rule of law le molao o o tlhamaletseng, mongwe le mongwe o itirela sengwe le sengwe ka fa a eletsang go dira ka teng.
Mokaulengwe, ke go ema nokeng Rraetsho Morwaeng ke go ema nokeng ka gore Tshutiso e ke yone e re e tlhokang so that ope yo o nang le keletso ya go tla mo lefatsheng la rona a dira investments a bo a itse gore go safe.

A bo a itse gore o ka beeletsa dithoto tsa gagwe mme go sena sepe se e leng gore kamoso dithoto tsa gagwe di tlaabo di senyegile kana Goromente a tshwerwe a sa tlhola a kgona go dira sepe go laola bone go itsamaisa bone.

Look at the country like Afghanistan gore go diragala eng today.
Fa terrorists di tsenang teng, ba tsaya Puso, ba tsaya taolo ya Puso mme go felela go sena Puso, go felela e le gore sengwe le sengwe se a itira.

Lefatshe leo economically le ya go amega go bo go raya gore ditsamaiso tsa lone di nna bokoa, batho ba bo ba sa tlhole ba nna le kgatlhego mo go lone.

Molao o ga se o ke ka buang dilo tse di ntsintsi thata.

Ke tsaya gore mabaka a ke setseng ke a buile Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, o a utlwile.

Ke a leboga rraetsho.


MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Assistant Minister responsible for MYSC.

We shall now call upon the Honourable Minister responsible for Infrastructure and Housing Development, Honourable Eric Mothibi Molale.

56 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022COUNTER TERRORISM (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

40 OF 2021) Second Reading HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure, Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Procedure, Honourable Kapinga.


MR KAPINGA: How is it possible to have three speakers ba tlhomagane ba tswa ka kwa Domkrag le rona re ntse re le teng?

MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, we are on a different Bill.

This is a new Bill, Honourable Billy is the first speaker on this Bill.

MR KAPINGA: Nnyaa, Minister is the first speaker.

MR SPEAKER: The Minister was presenting.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Let us have order please Honourable Member for Gaborone Central.
Honourable Kapinga is quite correct, I need to explain to him how we operate.

Sa ntlha Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona o baya Bill ya gagwe fa pela ga Palamente.

From there parties di tlisa maina a tsone, the ruling BDP e setse e tlisitse maina a mararo mo go yone ntlha e e sa tswang go bewa ke Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona Morwaeng.

Then obviously UDC has Honourable Kapinga on the chat and Honourable Tshere.

So everything is quite in order Rraagwe Dineo, nothing wrong.
INFRASTRUCTURE AND MINISTER OF HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.

Tota fela ke na le dintlha di le pedi fa ke ema molao o nokeng.

Selo santlha ke lebogele Tona Morwaeng gore a bo a tlile ka molao o go baakanya the operational aspects tsa counter terrorism ka gore go ntse go na le mo go ka tweng gaps which led into things falling into the cracks, go bo go sa nne sentle mo tsamaisong.
Jaanong ka fa a buang ka teng go tlaa baakanngwa gore go se ka ga nna le ketsaetsego fa go lwantshiwa borukutlhi jo bo tseneletseng jo.

E bile mo godimo ga moo mo ntlheng e ya ntlha, ke itumelela gore le tsone dikatlholo bogolo jang fines, di okeditswe ka gore le fa botshelo jwa motho bo sena tlhwatlhwa, batho ba fa ba tlhaselwa ba tsena fa gare ga rona ba a ganyaola.
Re tshwanetse go dira fine e e leng gore fa a tshwarwa a le mo maikaelelong a go tla go ganyaola batho, a utlwe tota gore go botlhoko go utlwisa yo mongwe botlhoko.

Re a itse jaaka mongwe a ntse a bua gore go na le ba ba ba nayang madi a gore ba dire ditiro tse.

Jaanong re tshwanetse re tseye madi ao mo go bone ba ba nayang madi bao, re ba fine mo go feteletseng.
Ntlha ya bobedi ke yone ya borukutlhi ka bojone, mme ke e bua ke lebile dikgang tse ke ntseng ke di reeditse beke e yotlhe go buiwa ka di le mmalwa.

Borukutlhi bagaetsho bo sleg, ga bo na pelo.

Jaaka ke ntse ke bua kgantele, dirukutlhi are smart, swift and ruthless mme Botswana is no exception to such kind of ruthless act.

Honourable Kapinga will remember gore go ne go tle go nne le menahune ya gore go na le mo gotweng sleeper cell, fa re lebile nako ya 2010 World Cup kwa South Africa.
Go ne go le thata go tsaya batho bao ka go dirisa ditsela tse di buegang mo melaong e re e buang e. Honourable Kapinga o tlaa gakologelwa gore go ne ga nna mongwe yo o neng a feta a raletse Botswana, go utlwala gore he was tracked by ba a tswang kwa go bone go sele koo ka gore o ne a dirisa a satellite form.

O tswa go tshwarwa kwa Zambia, a bo a ya go felela kwa Guantanamo Bay.

Rona re sena melao ya gore re ka tlhodumela megala ya motho yoo go bona gore o ntse jang, o dirang, jalojalo.
E bile re sena melao ya gore re bereke le batho ba ba neng ba mo setse morago ka gore fa re dira jalo, re ne re tlaabo re tlola tsamaiso ya tshireletsego ya ditshwanelo tsa batho.

Se molao o o se buang ke gore ba ba tshwanang le bao, a batlhotlhimise ba nne le tetla ya go tlhodumela gore serukutlhi se se ntseng jalo ke sa mofuta ofe.
Fa e le gore ntlha e ga e tswe sentle, a e re fa go tla kwa Committee Stage go baakanngwe golo fa ka gore ga go a twe Motswana mongwe le mongwe, e bile ga go a twe ke dilo tse di lebagantsweng batho ba ba gaisanang mo sepolotiking.

Nnyaa, maikaelelo ke go lwantsha borukutlhi.
Jaanong ke kopa gore Rre Morwaeng, Rre Mmusi le Mme Serame, fa e le gore go na le gongwe fa e leng gore gongwe bangwe ba bete se molangwana, re tlhatswe ntlha e. Sleeper cells tse go buiwang ka tsone mo go utlwala e le gore di ne tsa ya go tshwarwa kwa Africa Borwa ka gore rona ka kwano re ne re sena the wherewithal ya melao le tse dingwe gore re ba tlhodumele ka botlalo, re bo re ye go dira tse di neng tsa dirwa ke maAfrika Borwa ka gore ba na le molao wa 1992, o o fang batlhotlhomisi tetla ya go tlhodumela batho ba dirisa megala.
Molao oo o na le checks and balances tsa gore tsamaiso eo e se ka ya nna abused.

Palamente is one of the oversight institutions tse di ka dirang gore go nne le those checks and balances go itsa abuse, maikaelelo ke go sireletsa lefatshe le setšhaba.

Jaanong ke itumelela molao o gore o tsene, o gorogile gore re tle re nne le menyetla, re tsenelele, re kgone go …(Inaudible)… at the same time go sena abuse ya gore jaanong batho ba ka itirelela fela go kgokgontsha batho.
Nnyaa, e tlaabo e se tsamaiso ya puso ya batho ka batho.

57 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022COUNTER TERRORISM (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

40 OF 2021) Second Reading A re se ka ra ipaya mo seemong sa gore jaanong ra re ba ba tlisang molao fa, ba dira gore ba tle ba kgokgontshe batho.

A re ipeyeng mo seemong sa gore re itebeng gore re le Botswana le setšhaba re sireletsegile go le kae, fa e leng gore molao o a tlhaela teng go baakanngwe gore o nonofe, o tswelele o re sireletse.
This is the import of why we are debating these laws mo Palamenteng.

Ga re ka ke ya re re bone gore terrorism e setse e jweleletse, e setse e amane le mafatshe otlhe, e bile e tla ka all shapes and forms, e bo e le gore re santse re bua ka dilo tse e leng gore tota they are not meant to be the ones we focus on.

We are focusing mo tshenyetsong-setšhaba, mo tlhaselong ya setšhaba le mo go sireletseng setšhaba.

Jaanong ga gona tsela epe gape.


Go ka nna thona gore e re o tla o lelekile motho o mo utlwile a ne a bua le mongwe physically gore o ya go bolaya semangmang kana o ya go dira tiro e e ntseng jang, e re mapodise boemong jwa gore ba mo tshware jaanong ka gore ga ba na bosupi, go bo gotwe a re yeng go batla court order pele, re tle re mo tshware jaanong re batle bosupi joo.
Gompieno jaana tsamaiso ke gore mapodise fa go na le sengwe sa go nna jalo, within 12 hours ba kgona go tshwara motho yoo gore ba tswelele ba tlhotlhomise ba dire dilo tse dingwe ba santse ba ile go kopa.

Ga ke itse gore a ke 12 kana 24 hours, kwa court jaanong gore ba mo tshware lebaka le leleele.

Ke tsone dilo tse re tshwanetseng ra di sekaseka.


Fa e le gore the current tsamaiso e ya 12 to 24 hours, go bo go belaelwa gore it is being abused, a re thatafatseng fa go tlaa dirang gore ba ba o dirisang ba se ka ba abuse batho.

Ke yone tsamaiso ya batho ka batho ya morero, puso ya batho ka batho.

Ke ne ke kopa gore mo melaong e yotlhe, e seng fela o re o buang o, re focus mo go reng tota the object of these Bills is to safeguard the interests of the citizens of this country, including its resources.
Ka mafoko a a kalo bagaetsho ke sa ye lololo, ke ne ke kopa gore re eme molao o nokeng rotlhe fela, re bo re dumalane gore tota go tshwana le e mengwe fela, kgang e nngwefela; tshireletsego ya setšhaba.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you and good luck at your new ministry Honourable Minister.

We shall now call upon Honourable Kapinga, Honourable Member for Okavango.

MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you Mr Speaker.


Ke latlhele mo kgannyeng e e fa pele ga rona e. Mr Speaker, terrorism ke mengwe ya melato e metona thata, e bile e tshosetsa kagiso, ledulo le the very existence of a nation.

Re le boeteledipele at this level ya sepolotiki, re tshwanetse re lebelele dilo with a very sober sense.
Ke bua jaana Mr Speaker ke batla go botsa which some may think is controversial, but it is necessary to be raised in order for us re tlhome matlho on the level of the threat against this country.

Potso e ke batlang go e botsa Tona wa Defence and Security ke gore, what was the last terrorism threat or incident e e kileng ya diragala mo Botswana?
When did it happen last because nna to my knowledge, ke sa ganetse se Rre Molale a se buang sa gore some terrorist o kile a transit through our country a ya go tshwarwa kwa Zimbabwe, but the question we need to ask ourselves ke gore, what was the last terrorist incident e e kileng ya diragala mo Botswana or a significant terrorist threat e re kileng ra lebagana le yone re le Botswana?
E e ka dirang gore resources tse re di dirisang on anti-terrorism issues, di bo di nna dikgolo, re bo re dirisa madi a le mantsi thata mo kgannyeng eo.

Nna tse ke di itseng rra, the last two things that I remember e ne e le simulation.

Simulation ya terrorism incident e e kileng ya diragala next to the Office of the President (OP), le simulation e e kileng ya diragala kwa airport, tsotlhe being led ke Lephata la DIS.
But as for any terrorist incident, ga ke e itse rraetsho, o ka nkgakolola, gongwe dingwaga tse ke di nnileng ke le kwa ntle ga sepodise di dirile gore ke lebale dilo tseo.

Terrorism analysis and fusion; potso e ke go e botsang Honourable Minister ke gore, what is the justification ya go isa lephata le kwa DIS?

Ke buisiwa se ke gore masole ba na le intelligence ya bone, e e leng gore part of their responsibility is counter terrorism.
Mapodise ba na le Crime Intelligence Branch e e leng gore part of their responsibility ke terrorism.

E bile thatathata terrorism is a criminal offence and lephata le le lebaganeng le crime mo Botswana ke sepodise and not DIS.

DIS is responsible for national security which covers terrorists’ threats, but once a terrorist incident occurs, ke responsibility ya mapodise.
I am raising this issue Honourable Minister because in my view, experience and international exposure, a counter-terrorism fusion agency is always located on neutral grounds.

Neutral ground is a ministry headquarters like in the United States of America (USA).

If I still remember, it was located in the Attorney General’s Office.

Fa o e tsaya o ya go e tsenya kwa DIS, you are creating fertile ground for inter-agency 58 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022COUNTER TERRORISM (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
40 OF 2021) Second Reading conflict.

DIS is going to think that it is now the boss ya Military Intelligence.

It is going to think that, it is now the boss ya sepodise le Crime Intelligence Branch ya sepodise.

It is now going to think gore setlhako go lela sa yone when it comes to counter-terrorism issues, but counter-terrorism is the equal responsibility ya masole, mapodise le DIS.

So, my advice to you, is that you are making a very big mistake by locating this counter- terrorism fusion agency kwa DIS.
It should be located at your ministry because you will be coordinating inter- agency efforts to deal with terrorism.

E se ka ya nna o kare lephata le lengwe is more senior to others, maphata a a a lekana Honourable Minister.
Fa ke digela kgang ya me Honourable Minister, ke batla ke go reye ke re, institutions tse re di dirang tse, in the light of our declining economic performance, much as national security is important, re tshwanetse re lebelele gore itsholelo ga e sa tlhole e re letlelela to spend madi without reservation, restriction and tightening our budgetary strings mo security.

Madi a re a dirisang mo agencies tsa security must reflect the reality of the threat that we are facing.
We must also maximise on the structures that we already have by just creating efficient coordinating mechanisms rather than going around drawing one agency out of size because that is what we are doing by locating this agency kwa DIS.

You are perpetuating a misconception ya gore DIS is bigger than other agencies.

Terrorism is a crime and those responsible for criminal law enforcement in this country are the police.
But to avoid inter-agency conflict and competition, you should locate the fusion task force in the ministry so that o fetsa dikgang tsa go gogagogana ga maphata rraetsho.

E ne e le yone kgakololo ya me fela mo go wena Honourable Minister.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Clarification.

Ke a leboga.

Honourable Member, o bue ka kgang ya credibility ya DIS gore ka fa e ntseng ka teng gompieno, re e bone e dirisiwa mo ditirong tsa borukutlhi fa o di leba sentle.
A mme e mo seemong sa go fiwa boikarabelo jo bo ntseng jaana Honourable Kapinga?

MR KAPINGA: Ke a leboga for that clarification.

Dikgang tsa credibility ya DIS re di buile thata, e bile di santse di le current.

Ga re ise re bone sepe se se dirilweng to address the concerns tse re setseng re kile ra di bua in the past.

Seemo sa me mabapi le lephata leo, se ntse se eme fela jalo.
Le fa gongwe e bile dilo tse, go direlwa new responsibilities, ke go leka to justify the existence ya DIS e e leng gore has become doubtful in the eyes of the nation.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke dumedise batlotlegi.

Ke dumedise Motlotlegi Kekgonegile.

Ke bo ke dumedise ba kwa Kgalagadi, Hunhukwe, Monong, Ncaang, Make le Lokgwabe.
Mr Speaker, ke a le dumedisa ba lotlhe, le Batswana ke a ba dumedisa ka kakaretso.

Molao o ke o ema nokeng ka gore tota fa o o lebelela, o batla gore o sireletse Motswana.

Ke sone se o bonang ke o ema nokeng.

Go maleba gore DIS le Military Intelligence ba BDF ba thuse ka gore dira intelligence gathering, mme ba amogane le ba ba maleba jaaka ba sepodise, gore ditlhotlhomiso tse di maleba di se ka tsa kgopakgopetsana di nne tsone.

Gompieno borukutlhi mo lefatsheng la Botswana bo ile kwa godimo.
Fa ba DIS le Military Intelligence ba ka se ka ba dira jalo, ba tsaya intelligence gathering, re ka iphitlhela re le mo diemong tse di tshwanang le tsa bo Mozambique le Somalia.

Mr Speaker, mme kana terrorism ga se ya ditlhobolo fela.

Go na le cyber terrorism e e diragalang mo maranyaneng, internet.

Le yone go batla thatathata re itebaganya le yone go sireletsa mafaratlhatlha bogolo jang a Puso ka gore a tshwere information e ntsi ya boleng jo bo kwa godimo.
E re ntse ke tsweletse, tla lebogele gore Tona o lemogile gore molao wa Counter Terrorism o tsamaelana thata le wa DIS, mme se se dira gore go nne le double reporting e e yang kwa go Tautona.

Paakanyo molao e e ya go leka go baakanya seemo se.

Gompieno re tlhokana le investors tse di tlang mo lefatsheng la rona e bile ba batla kagiso.

Ba itse gore lefatshe la Botswana ke lefatshe la kagiso.

Mr Speaker, domestic terrorism e oketsegile fela thata mo lefatsheng la rona la Botswana.
Re bona cash-in- transit robberies tse dintsi fela thata.

Ga o ka ke wa itse gore madi a a tsewang a ya kae, e bile a isiwa kae.

A madi a, a ya go isiwa kwa ditlhophong, a ya go neelwa ditsuuludi, a ya go reng.

O a ipotsa gore madi a a ya kae.

Fela jaaka re ne re bua ka molao o o neng o tswa ole, ba ne ba bua gore o ya go fitlhela e le gore motho o tshwere madi a a kalo, o sa itse gore o a tsaya kae, a ya go reka koloi kwa Mogoditshane cash le ntlo cash.

Dilo tse le fa o ka lebelela, di a tsamaelana.


E bile ga re batle grey list.

Ke sone se o bonang ke re molao o ke o ema nokeng.

Fa o ka lebelela gape Mr Speaker, dilo tse fela jaaka go ne go buiwa tsa bo kidnapping, bogodu jo bo rileng, ga di a siama, re a di bona kwa mafatsheng a mangwe.

59 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022COUNTER TERRORISM (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

40 OF 2021) Second Reading Dilo tseo di digile diitsholelo tsa mafatshe.
Fa o ka lebelela kwa Mozambique, itsholelo ya bone, kana le humile lefatshe lele; le na le mo gotweng fruits, oil le na le sengwe le sengwe, mme ka gore go na le ditsuuludi tse dintsi ga le ka ke la tswelela.

Dilo tseo le tshwanetse go di kganela fa le le lefatshe gore itsholelo e tswelele.

E bile gore re se ka ra felela re tsena mo grey listing eo.

E bile gape ke bo ke lebogele sengwe se Tona a se buileng gone mo molaong o, dikatlholo.

Dikatlholo di tlhamaletse.


Le tsone fela jalo tota ke a di support.

Dilo tse re le Batswana fa re ka baya melao e re ya go bona gore mme fela jaaka Tautona a ne a bua gore Reset Agenda go na le maikaelelo a to align Government machinery and re ya golo gongwe.

Re ya go felela re nna le ditiro, lefatshe la rona le ya go tlhabologa.

Ke sone se o bonang ke ema molao o nokeng.

Ka a le kalo, mme ke go leboge Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Le nna ke a go leboga Motlotlegi Mmaetsho Tona, motsadi wa rona.
Go tlaa bua Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Mahalapye Bophirima, Honourable Tshere.

MR TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): Thank you very much Honourable Speaker and my apology for earlier fa ke ne ke bua le Honourable Mmusi.

Re ne ra bua kwa botlhokong and ironed our differences.

Ke tsene mo kgannyeng e ya molao wa Counter Terrorism.

Pele re tlhaloganye terrorism sentle le ka fa ba mafatshe a mangwe ba e lebang ka teng.
Kana terrorism ke mo go tewang motho yo mongwe a utlwile botlhoko e bo e le gore gongwe o ka dirisa thulaganyo ya go utlwa botlhoko e go utlwisa motho yo a mo utlwisang botlhoko, botlhoko.

E nna terrorism fa e le gore mafatshe a humileng kana yo o humileng go feta yo mongwe.
Fa ke attack motho ka gore o ntseela tshimo, rre yo ke a tleng ke utlwe a bua thata gore o na le farm, Rre Molale e re ke na le farm ke le moleminyana yo o monnyennyane fa tlase ga gagwe, a bo e le gore he extends farm ya gagwe fela o ntsenya mo teng, a ntseela farm eo a bo a re ka gore ene o motona mo go nna.

Jaanong fa ke tsaya lentswe ke mo tika that is terrorism.

Ke yone e ba e lebang jalo, definition ya teng.

Fa o attack motho yo o humileng.


That is why o lebelela bo Palestine and Israel issue ya teng is defined as terrorism from the Palestinian side but from Israel side is defence and protection of our people.

Therefore, those are the difference how this thing should be looked at.

that term and that is how the word terrorism came about.

That is why organisations like bo Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, Self-Proclaimed Islamic State (ISIS) came about.

Ke yone problem e e leng international level.


This has been jaaka bakaulengwe ba ntse ba bua since 9/11.

Selo se se ne sa tla to the sharp, re simolola go se leba rotlhe jaanong re tsenya matlho mo teng gore kana go na le ba ba ngongoregang, mme fa ba sa reediwe, ba felela ba tla ka suicide bombers, ka se, ka gore ga re ba reetse.

Ke ne ke remeletse thata mo molaong wa Botswana gore position ya rona in terms of Counter Terrorism, fa re leba terrorism re akanya gore how can we approach it.
Ke go fe sekai; America e rile fa e sena go nna e tlhaselwa ka 9/11, ke ne ke le gone kwa, they took a position ya gore they do not negotiate with terrorists.

George Walker Bush at that time as the President of the United States (US) went on television and stated very clearly that America does not negotiate with terrorists.

So, what does that mean?


It means fa go nna le mathata a ntwa e e amanang le terrorists go raya gore ba ya go boma fela ga ba ka ke ba botsa sepe gore go diragala eng, le lwela eng, kgang ya lona ke eng, ba ya go boma gone foo.

That is the approach of the American system towards terrorism.

A approach ya rona le mo Botswana, re tsere position eo gore we do not negotiate with terrorists?

Fela fa re utlwa gotwe o terrorist, re ya go boma, ga re buisanye, ga re reetse gore naare motho yo a reng.
Ke tlaa go fa sekai; Boko Haram in Nigeria kana e bua ka the Niger Delta.

E ne e le batho fela jaaka Honourable Kapinga a bua gore go tla oil drilling kwa Okavango.

Go ne go tshwana fela le kwa Okavango, kwa Niger Delta in Nigeria.

E rile one day fa go tla the oil companies a bo e le gore go a kgotlelesega gotlhe, e le gore jaanong ga go na fa go ka dirwang teng, ga go na mafudiso, ga go na ditlhapi, the local people were destroyed entirely gone foo and the environment was destroyed.
That was the birth of Boko Haram e le gore jaanong it was responding to that.

Mo e leng gore e ne e gateletswe jaanong, e bo e simolola e leka to respond to gone moo.

Jaanong e respond jang?

E tlaabo e simolola e ikepela oil le yone, e ithekisetsa, e ithekela dibetsa a bo e simolola …(Interruptions)…e dira jalo.

That is why o utlwa ba bangwe ba re it is Jihad.

Jihad ba raya the holy war, gore ke ntwa, ke a itwela.
It is a struggle, I am struggling here and I am showing through Ke gone ka fa terrorism re buang ka teng.

Ke ne ke batla go itse gore rona, a approach ya rona re e lebelela jalo gore molao o o batla gore o nnyaa, ga re negotiate 60 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022COUNTER TERRORISM (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.

40 OF 2021) Second Reading HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ba tshwere sentle fa o utlwa ba tsosa modumo jaana.

MR SPEAKER: Let us have order please!


HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Let us have order please.

Order!

Minister, order!

Wa point of order please go ahead.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Ke ne ke re o thuse Ntlo e Mr Speaker.

Kana jaanong honourable is debating se sele fela, ga re sa tlhola re itse gore o debate eng.

A a boele to the Bill, a a tlhaloganye Bill that we are debating gompieno.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga a tlhaloganye Bill, ga a tlhaloganye Bill!

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Let us have order please.

Order!

If there is anybody to tell anybody that he is derailing, it is me.

Fa e le gore o dule mo setlhogong, ke nna ke tlaa mo rayang ke re o dule mo setlhogong, e seng lona.

Order!

As it is now 7 o’clock, I shall now call upon His Honour the Vice President, to move a Motion of adjournment.

MOTION ADJOURNMENT LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, re sena go reetsa ditsiabadimo tsa ga Rre Tshere, nte ke kope Ntlo e ye go ikhutsa.

MR SPEAKER: Kana wena Morena Vice President (VP), ke wena o tshwanetseng go nthusa go kgalema.

Jaanong wena o a keketsa.

Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 7:00 p.m. until Friday 28th January, 2022 at 9:00 a.m. le terrorists.

Fela fa re utlwa gotwe o terrorist re a go kaletsa, irrespective gore o bua jang kana mabaka a gago ke eng.
Fa gongwe re ele tlhoko le mo Botswana, ke kile ka bua mo Palamenteng last time ke le bolelela gore, kana ka fa re itshwarang ka teng go a lebelelwa, go kgona go nna suspicious mo mafatsheng a mangwe, especially fa go lebeletswe terrorism.

More so that the American position is that they do not negotiate with terrorists, and anybody yo o bonalang o kare ke terrorist, ke terrorist mo go bone.
So, fa re lebelela mo Botswana, ke kile ka bua ka dikoloi tse di fiwang BDP ka nako ya ditlhopho ke ba raya ke re, kana dikoloi tsa lona di tshwana le tsa Al-Qaeda.

Pharologanyo ya tsone ke gore tsa lona di tla di rwele speakers, tsa Al-Qaeda di tla di rwele tlhobolo.

Jaanong dilo tse le di lebelele le di ele tlhoko gore a dilo tse ga di reye batho di re re rotloetsa terrorism kana re amana le bone.
Mo gongwe ke kile ka ba gakolola re santse re le mo campaign tsa 2019, ke ise ke nne…(Interruptions)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mokaulengwe you are confusing Ogoni People le Boko Haram.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Please.

Standing Order 58.4.

MR TSHERE: Tla ke go gakolole ke go rute … (Inaudible)… science and I did this subject.
Fa BDP e ipapatsa la ntlha fa His Excellency Rre Masisi a tsaya setilo, go ne go na le kepese e e neng e kwadilwe “Sisi.” Jaanong se o sa se lemogeng ke gore to a naked eye fa a lebelela “Sisi” fa a balwa ka se Arabia, ba bala ba tswa kwa morago, e nna “ISIS.” Fa o dira jalo … (Interruptions)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Fa o sena se o se ka se buang didimala fela, o lese go… MR TSHERE: Dilo tse re tshwanetse gore re di ele tlhoko …(Interruptions)… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... MR SPEAKER: Order!

please, Order!
please, Order!

Honourable Molebatsi order!

There is someone yo o batlang point of order, who is that?

61 Hansard No 204Thursday 27th January, 2022COUNTER TERRORISM (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2021 (NO.
40 OF 2021) Second Reading HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B.

B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae 62 Hansard No 204