Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1694857843683.pdf (Botswana)
THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 10 MARCH 2022 MIXED VERSION HANSARD NO: 205 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon.

Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP.

DEPUTY SPEAKER Hon.

P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP.

(Tonota) Clerk of the National Assembly Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly Acting Learned Parliamentary Counsel Assistant Clerk (E) His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP.

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP.


(Boteti West) CABINET - President - Vice President - Ms B. N. Dithapo - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe - Advocate L. O. Tlhowe - Mr R. Josiah Hon.

K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP.

(Molepolole South) - Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

K. T. Mmusi, MP.

(Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon.

Dr L. Kwape, MP.

(Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon.

K. K. Autlwetse, MP.


(Specially Elected) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon.

K. S. Gare, MP.

(Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

P. K. Kereng, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism Hon.

Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP.

(Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon.

T.M.

Segokgo, MP.

(Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon.

K. Mzwinila, MP.
K. Mzwinila, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Hon.

T. M. Rakgare, MP.

(Mogoditshane) - Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development Hon.

A. M. Mokgethi, MP.

(Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon.

P. O. Serame, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon.

F. M. M. Molao, MP.

(Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Hon.

Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP.


(Tati East) Hon.

L. M. Moagi, MP.

(Ramotswa) - Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology - Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security Hon.

M. Kgafela, MP.

(Mochudi West) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

M. R. Shamukuni, MP.

(Chobe) - Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development Hon.

E. M. Molale, MP.

(Goodhope-Mabule) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development Hon.
D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP.

(Gaborone South) - Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

S. N. Modukanele, MP.

(Lerala -Maunatlala) Hon.

T. Monnakgotla, MP.

(Kgalagadi North) Hon.

M. M. Pule, MP.

(Mochudi East) Hon.

M. S. Molebatsi, MP.


(Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

S. Lelatisitswe, MP.

(Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness Hon.

N. W. T. Makwinja, MP.

(Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education Hon.

B. Manake, MP.
B. Manake, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

H. B. Billy, MP.

(Francistown East) Hon.

A. Lesaso, MP.

(Shoshong) - Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES Names Constituency Hon.

L. Kablay, MP.

(Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon.

Dr U. Dow, MP.

Hon.


P. Majaga, MP.

Hon.

M. Balopi, MP.

Hon.

J. S. Brooks, MP.

Hon.

C. Greeff, MP.

Hon.

T. Letsholo, MP.

Hon.

T. F. Leuwe, MP.

Hon.

T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP.

Hon.

Dr T. Matsheka, MP.

Hon.

S. N. Moabi, MP.

Hon.

P. K. Motaosane, MP.

Hon.

O. Regoeng, MP.

Hon.

J. L. Thiite, MP.


Specially Elected Nata-Gweta Gaborone North Kgalagadi South Gaborone Bonnington South Kanye North Takatokwane Gaborone Central Lobatse Tati West Thamaga-Kumakwane Molepolole North Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon.

D. Saleshando, MP.

(Leader of the Opposition) Hon.

M. G. J. Motsamai, MP.


(Opposition Whip) Maun West Ghanzi South Selebi Phikwe West Mahalapye East Sefhare-Ramokgonami Ngami Okavango Maun East Bobonong Selebi Phikwe East Palapye Nkange Mahalapye West Francistown West Hon.

D. L. Keorapetse, MP.

Hon.

Y. Boko, MP.

Hon.

Dr K. Gobotswang, MP.

Hon.

C. K. Hikuama, MP.

Hon.

K. K. Kapinga, MP Hon.

G. Kekgonegile, MP.

Hon.

T. B. Lucas, MP.

Hon.

K. Nkawana, MP.

Hon.

O. Ramogapi, MP.

Hon.

Dr N. Tshabang, MP.

Hon.

D. Tshere, MP.

Hon.


M. I. Moswaane, MP.

Hon.

T. S. Khama, MP.

Hon.

L. Lesedi, MP.

Hon.

B. Mathoothe, MP.

Hon.

M. Reatile, MP.

(Botswana Patriotic Front) Serowe West Serowe South Serowe North Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon.

W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.
W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.

Francistown South (Alliance for Progressives) TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 10TH MARCH, 2022 CONTENTS PAGE (S) LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME.........................................................................................21-28 APPROPRIATION (2022/2023) BILL, 2022 (NO.
2 OF 2022) COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY Organisation 1500 - Ministry of International Affairs and Cooperation (Resumed Debate).............................................................................................................................................1-16 Organisation 1300 - Attorney General’s Chambers..............................................................................................17-20 (Resumed Debate)...........................................................................................................................................29-39 Organisation 1400 - Auditor General...................................................................................................................40-52 Thursday 10th March, 2022 THE ASSEMBLY met at 11:00 a.m. (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) P R A Y E R S * * * * ASSEMBLY IN COMMITTEE (CHAIRPERSON in the Chair) APPROPRIATION (2022/2023) BILL, 2022 (NO.
2 OF 2022) ORGANISATION 1500 - MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION (Resumed Debate) MR CHAIRPERSON (MR MOATLHODI): Order!

Honourable Members, when the House adjourned yesterday evening, Honourable Dr Thapelo Matsheka was on the floor and he was left with three minutes 38 seconds.

Honourable Member for Lobatse, Papatlo, Sheep Farm, Malokaganye.

Honourable Matsheka!

DR MATSHEKA (LOBATSE): Good morning Mr Chairperson and thank you... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Correction Mr Chairperson.
MR CHAIRPERSON: I know you take offence Rraagwe Kgosi, ke fetile... MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): No, I am not offended, I am correcting.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Please go ahead Rraagwe Kgosi.

MR MOLALE: Nnyaa, o e lemogile correction Mr Chairperson, a re tswelele.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you sir…(Laughter!

)… ke lefufa.

DR MATSHEKA: Ga a mpatle kwa gae Rre Molale batho ba Modimo.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Ke mo utlwile.

DR MATSHEKA: Thank you Mr Chairperson.


Just to recap Mr Chairperson, the key points that I was making in my submission, in commenting on Honourable Kwape’s submission was really that a global development agenda, our contribution as a country is really quite paradoxical.

In the sense that there are two determining factors here, that we are a small economy and we are therefore, a taker of both price and policy prescriptions.
As a result, it is very urgent that we work around our foreign policy agenda or policy frameworks, so that we are very clear on how we are going to move the economy forward in this sphere.

I said this Mr Chairperson because, indeed whilst I commend our efforts to seek to host the Kimberly Process Secretariat, it is essentially also a governance tool that is really prescribed by the international community around how to actually trade in the diamond space.
Therefore, those factors continue to be the key determinants of how we are going do it.

Notably Mr Chairperson, we are competing with Austria and China and in fact, the reality is that this is where the agenda was actually formulated to seek to want to control the trade and the flow of diamonds in the global system.

I wish us well, that we actually get selected to hold the Secretariat here, because we are indeed a diamond economy.
It was also interesting Mr Chairperson, the reference to Hyundai Plant by one of the Members that it is indeed a dynamic that we need to prepare for, which is why I have always made a point that we are a small economy.

It was also interesting Mr Chairperson, that whilst we forged ahead to want to set up a vaccine plant, which is quite commendable, it was interesting that a day before, the same investor was being hosted in South Africa by His Excellency Ramaphosa.
So therein lies the very dynamic that I am referring to, that we have got to reposition and really determine a work space we actually are, we have got the competitive advantage on and also by scaling and in terms of what we do as a country.

So these are the realities that I thought I should bring out Mr Chairperson, so that we debate these issues.
Finally Mr Chairperson, I want to comment on the completion of projects, that indeed as the Budget Speech did note, that we have got a challenge and not only domestically, but even in terms of projects that we are implementing out of the country.

I would have thought that perhaps that would be a distinguishing factor, to be able to gauge whether we are implementing better than our counterparts across the world.
It is interesting that 1 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) we are still struggling to complete our projects even out of the country, which is the matter that I think should receive a greater attention, to really get down to the bottom of whether it is our processes or it is just this inability to just get things done competitively at the same rate as others in both jurisdictions.
I thought Mr Chairperson, I should conclude my submission by supporting the allocations as I have said.

I really do not have a problem with the allocations of monies, that is really the policy framework and how we think beyond the existing frameworks that we have.

I thank you Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Member for Lobatse.

You are going to be followed by the Honourable of Parliament for Maun East, Boro, Senonnori, Matlapaneng di le mo teng.

Honourable Kekgonegile.


MR KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): Tanki Mr Chairperson.

Ke dumedise batlotlegi, re dumedise setšhaba ka kakaretso.

Mr Chairperson, kana setšhaba fa se reeditse re bua ka kabo madi, kakanyetso ya lephata le, ba ipotsa gore naare gone tota lephata le konokono le dira eng, mosola wa lone ke eng mo lefatsheng?

Kana ke lephata le le re lomaganyang le baditšhabatšhaba, mme e bile le re tsenya mo baditšhabatšhabeng, gore re thusanye dikgang jaaka mathata a aparetse lefatshe ka bophara.
Ba ipotsa gore, mme dikgang tse re di thusanyang ke dife?

Re le lefatshe, foreign policy ya rona ya reng at this particular moment?

What are our key priority areas kana issues re le lefatshe?

Mafatshe a mangwe ba lebile bo tikologo, ba bangwe bogodu, ba bangwe terrorism jaaka e buiwa.

Ba bangwe ba lebile energy, botsogo, ditshwanelo tsa bomme, ba bangwe ba bua ka ditshwanelo fela in general.

Ba bangwe ba bua ka lehuma.


Potso ke gore foreign policy, priority issues tsa rona for this particular year tse di mo foreign policy, ke dife?

Tsone tseo fela motho o ka di ipotsa, mme ga di a tswa fela sentle mo this Budget, go leka go rutuntsha Motswana, gore a tlhaloganye.

Kana mo malobeng re ne re tshela ka mo e neng e le theme ya foreign policy ya rona e e neng e bidiwa silent diplomacy, gore fa dilo di diragala lefatshe ka bophara, re di lebelela fela, ga re bue.
Mme fa o bala budget e gompieno o e reeditse, o utlwa gore e fetogile, e bua ka economic diplomacy.

Potso ke gore economic diplomacy e a bo e raya eng?

Motho o ka akanya gore nnyaa, jaanong policy ya rona ke ya kwa mpeng, ke ya gore re dirisanya le yo o ka re tshetsang.

Ba ba sa re tshetseng re tlaa ba lebelela re le kgakalanyana.
Motho o ka botsa gore mme principles of international order, re di sala morago go le kae, tsa bo social justice, re di sala morago go le kae, fa e le gore jaanong tsone re tlaa di beela ka fa thoko, ra leba mpa ya rona fela?

A mme ga re na boikarabelo jwa gore re nne le seabe mo goreng mafatshefatshe, boditšhaba bo nne le thitibalo?
Mr Chairperson, kana fa o bua ka economic diplomacy mme e bile fa o bala o utlwa gotwe re batla go nna an investment destination of choice, economic diplomacy ya rona e batla go re gorosa mo goreng mongwe le mongwe a kgone go re thusa go tla go dira kgwebo kwano, kana re ntse re ganelela gone kwa Foreign Direct Investment (FDI).

Re ntse re tsaya itsholelo ya rona gape re tsweletse re e fa baditšhabatšhaba gore ba tswelele e nne bone ba ba e tsamaisang.
Gape o tla o ipotsa gore naare fa go buiwa ka investment destination of choice mme e re bajanala, bagwebi le artists fa ba tsena ka border, ba bo ba busiwa.

Ba busetswa gore fa o sa kenta ga o ka ke wa tsena mo lefatsheng mme gompieno re le mo seemong se boitseanape jwa COVID-19 bo kwa godimo, re sa rotloetse gore batho ba se ka ba kenta mme at the same time ditshwanelo tsa motho le tsone re tshwanelwa ke gore re di tlotle.
Fa e le gore ga re tlotle tsone ditshwanelo tsa bajanala le bagwebi, re ba kganela go tsena mo lefatsheng mme at the same time re re re batla go nna an investment destination of choice, gone moo fela ka bogone go go raya gore Ministry wa Health le wa International Affairs, ga di welane ka fa tsamaisong.

Tsamaiso ya International Order e tshwanelwa ke gore e ganelele thata e seng mo goreng itsholelo e tsamaya mo lefatsheng la lona fela.
E tshwanelwa ke gore gape e ganelele thata mo go reng social justice; how much you contribute?

Fa re bua ka itsholelo, re tshwanelwa ke gore go ganelela thata mo home-grown economy, e seng e re tlaa bayang mo baditšhabatšhabeng.

Fa o bua ka home-grown economy, motho o ka fa sekai fela ka dipotata gompieno gore fa e le gore motho o ne a ntse mo phuthegong a na le tshimo le farm a lemile dipotata, e le gore ba emise dipotata go tla gore tsa gagwe di kgone gore di gole, di kgone go dira market.
E bile gape a ntse mo phuthegong a bolaya dikgwebo tse dipotlana ka tshwetso yone eo mme dikoloi tse ditona tsa retailers di feta di ya kwa polaseng ya gagwe go goboka dipotata koo, mogwebi yo mmotlana ene a sa kgone gore o ka reka dipotata mo polaseng eo gotwe 2 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) tse ke tsa ba fela.
Gone moo fela ka bogone, ga re ka ke ra nna an investment destination of choice fa re bolaya Small Micro and Medium Enterprises (SMMEs) re re re godisa retailers.

Gone mme motho o ka ipotsa gore International Order Foreign Policy ya rona, e beile mo go eng thata?

Gone gompieno fa re ya go tlhopha le Ukraine kgatlhanong le Russia, re ne re beile mo go eng se re sa beyeng mo go sone fa re bua ka mafatshe a tshwanang le bo Western Sahara?
Re sa utlwe re bua sepe ka one, re sa bua sepe fa bo Iraq le bo Libya ba tlhaselwa.

Gompieno re beile mo go eng?

A mme mpa fela ya mpa ke yone e e re rayang e re we should sacrifice batho ba bangwe gore bone le fa ba sa tshele ba sule, rona fa re tshedile fela go siame?

Le bua ka Foreign Policy kana le bua ka ministry o o buang ka story sa rona sa lefatshe la Botswana?

Motho o ka botsa gore naare story se le raya sefe?

A le raya story sone sa ditlhopho every five years?
A le raya story sa investment attraction activities tse di kwadilweng foo, kana le raya se re se itseng se go bolaiwang dikgwebo tse dipotlana?

A le raya story sone se e leng gore palo ya bahumi e golela pele mme bahumanegi ba humanegela kwa pele?

Le raya story sone sa youth unemployment e ntsi?

A le raya sone story sa itsholelo ya rona e e leng mo diatleng tsa batswakwa, kana le raya sefe?

Go batla le re tlhalosetsa gore story se ke sefe.


O bua ka Chairmanship ya Southern African Development Community (SADC) Organ on Politics, Defence and Security, kana yone eo fela ke e e leng gore e isitse masole kwa Cabo Delgado.

Ke ntwa e e leng gore ga re na exit plan mo go yone.

O ne o le fa Tona o re ke kgaatshoo, masole a a boa mme ke bao ba okeletswa nako kwa, ba okeletswa madi ba le gone kwa.

Re ne re le fa re go bolelela gore ntwa ga e na kgaatshoo; Delgado e na le the root cause ya yone.
Ke yone e o tshwanelwang ke gore o ka bo o ntshitse recommendations le le Chairperson, le leka gore the root cause e bong letlhoko, poverty, tllhoko ditiro, go kgaphelwa ka fa thoko mo itsholelong ga Province ya Delgado, ke yone solution to mathata ale e seng masole fela.

Eswatini; you have failed Eswatini Honourable Minister.

Ga le bue sepe gompieno gore naare kwa Eswatini la reng.
Go ya teng fela le ya to tour reed dances, le ya go nwa ditee kwa Boards; gone moo fela ka bogone ga go a tlisa thitibalo mo Eswatini.

Le ile teng le boile mme go ntse go tsweletse; la reng?

Gone moo fela ka bogone, go raya gore bo Chairman jwa rona ga bo a re berekela le Southern Africa.
O bua ka fielding Batswana mo international organisations mme o ka bo o bua ka fielding maDomkrag le your loyalists ka gore gompieno jaana ga gona a clear and transparent identification criteria ya gore fa o batla go ya go bereka kwa United Nations (UN) gore o emiwe nokeng ke lefatshe la gago la Botswana o dira jang, o bona mang, kae, jang.

Ke lona fela ba le kgonang to pick and identify gore re batla go isa semangmang kwa.
Fa motho a tla ka boene fela a re ke batla go ya kwa, ga le kgone go mo ema nokeng.

Re ka a fa sekai ka Honourable Phenyo Butale yo o neng e le Mopalamente wa Gaborone Central, ka a ne a batile go ya go tsena kwa Pan-African Parliament (PAP).

Le paletswe ke go mo ema nokeng.

Go emeletswe fa go iwa le ene kwa Lesotho being recruited mme fa a re mme nna ke siame fa ke leng teng, a bo a phuaganngwa.

Bo Honourable Mokgware le ba bangwe ba ne ba batlile go tsena kwa African Union (AU), ga le a ba ema nokeng.
Maloba fela jaana Mma Moitoi fa le sena le mmitsa moNyasa, o ne a batlile gore o ka ya go ya go nna UN Special Representative of the Secretary General and Assistant Secretary Generals, ga le a mo ema nokeng, le ema nokeng ba lona fela.

Batswana ba bangwe ba ba nang le bokgoni, ba na le keletso ga le ba eme nokeng.

Tsamaiso ya ministry wa gago Honourable Minister e tlodilwe ke dipeba; ga e a tshwanela lefatshe le.
Ke sone se re dumelang gore batho ba kwa bophirima, lefatshe ka bophara, Reset Agenda ke go le ntsha.

Tanki Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Le rona re a leboga rraarona, Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Maun Botlhaba.

Sebui se se latelang e ne e tshwanetse ya nna Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona wa Labour, Employment and Skills Development mme o ikopile ka gore o tseneletse phuthego e nngwe e kgolo.

Fa a ka tla pele fa re tšhaisa, re tlaa mmitsa.


Jaanong ke dumela gore Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Banana, Ngwao le Metshameko o teng ka gore e kile ya re maphakela ka mmona.

Honourable Rakgare; Honourable Minister Rakgare!

Go raya gore gongwe o na le mathata a maranyane.

Jaanong the next speaker shall be the Honourable Minister responsible for Defence, Justice and Security; Tshwene.

MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Tanki rotwe; tanki Mr Chairperson.
Tla ke go dumedise mosong wa letsatsi, ke bo ke dumedise Borara jo bo leng fa, Batlotlegi Mapalamente ba ba tseneng phuthego e le ba ba seong.

3 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Mr Chairperson, ke tsena fa mosong o le nna go ema nokeng pego e re e beilweng pele ke Honourable Minister Kwape, a kopela lephata le la gagwe madi go tsweledisa tiro e ba ntseng ba e tshwere.
E bile ke mo akgole ka gore Minister o tsene mo tirong e bogareng jwa ngwaga o ntse o tsweletse.

Ke batla gore ke akgele, ke mo akgole ke re e rile e le lephata re tlhagetswe ke bothata jwa bolwetse jwa COVID-19, Ministry o wa ga Honourable Minister Kwape wa International Affairs and Cooperation, o ne wa ema ka dinao thata go tshwaragana le Ministry of Health go buisanya le mafatshe a mangwe gore le bone ba re thuse ka melemo le mekento e re neng ra e bona, e e neng ya tla go re thusa ka COVID-19.
Ke re rraetsho, re a go akgola.

Rraetsho, ke batla go go akgola gore lephata la gago ke berekile le lone thata kana bogautshwanyane ke le Minister of Defence.

E ne ya re fela fa o tsena, wa fitlhela re setse re le appointed to chair Lekalana la Politics, Defence and Security mo SADC, Tautona was the chairperson, mme wena wa tla wa nna chairperson of Ministers rraetsho.

Tiro e o e dirile fela ka bokgabane thata.

Re berekile rotlhe mo diphuthegong tse re neng re di tsamaya.
Ke go akgole rraetsho for a job well done.

E ne ya re mo tirong e, nngwe ya tse ke boneng re kopana le tsone as we were chairing Lekalana la Politics, Defence and Security e ne ya nna dikgang tsa kwa Mozambique, tse re neng ra tshwanelwa ke gore re lebagane le tsone, re tseye ditshwetso mo go tsone.

Re fitlhetse golo kwa go le thata, go ne go tlhakatlhakane.

Re ne ra ema ka dinao re eteletswe pele ke Motlotlegi Tautona wa lefatshe la Botswana, e ne e le ene Chair.
Go ne ga tsewa tshwetso rraetsho gore re le lefatshe la rona re tsenye masole a rona mo SADC, mo masoleng a a neng a ya go thusa kwa ka fa tlase ga SADC Mission in Mozambique (SAMIM).

Rraetsho, ke batla go akgolela kutlo e re ntseng le yone re le lefatshe la Botswana ka tsamaiso e re tsamaisang ka yone.

Re ne ra re fa re le kwa, ra neelwa maemo mo masoleng a SAMIM jaaka o itse, ga nna le boeteledipele jwa sesole se se kwa SAMIM.
Re ne ra neelwa maemo a bo Deputy Force Commander, mo gompieno e rileng fa re fetola, ba neelwa Brigadier Barwabatsile, ke ene Deputy Force Commander.

Le mo coordination mechanism, re ne ra e etelela pele e le yone e gakololang, e bontsha gore ditiro tse di ka tsamaisiwa jang.

Le gompieno maemo a a ntse a tshwerwe ke Brigadier Maphanyane, o tshwere maemo a fela, o a tsamaisa sentle thata.

Go ne ga nna le yo o bidiwang gotwe mogakolodi kana Chief of Mission to SAMIM.
Re bone go ntse go neelwa Motswana ka gore tota go ne go bonwa ka fa le neng le tsamaisa tiro e ka teng.

Go ne ga neelwa Motswana Professor Molomo gore a nne mo gotweng ke Chief of Mission.

Le tiro e le gompieno le fa re fetsa go tswa mo maemong a bo Chairperson, Professor Molomo a tswelela gore a nne a ntse a gakolola.
Selo se re se lebogela fela thata gore re bone Batswana ba tsena mo ditirong, le one masole a rona ba tsena mo tirong e, mme ba e dira ka bokgabane thata, mo e leng gore re le ministry maloba, re ne ra amogela lekwalo le le neng le tswa kwa SAMIM le lebogela tiro e re e dirang, mme re tshwaragane le bone.

Kana golo mo ke ketelelo pele ya ministry wa gago Honourable Minister, re re re a leboga rraetsho.
Fela ke a itse gore masole a rona a ntse a le kwa Mozambique, ba ntse ba tshwere tiro e tona e ya go lwa.

Re a itse gore re ipaakanyetsa go tsena mo karolong e e bidiwang gotwe transitioning to scenario five.

Jaanong re tlaabo re thusa go sa tlhole go lowa, mme e le go tsisa ditlamelo tse di rileng for economy to recover, go nne le kagiso go sa tlhole go le mo ntweng fela.
Golo mo ke go supa kgatelopele, gore mo tirong yone e re e tshwere sentle, mme e bile ga re sa tlhole re tlaabo re lwa fela ka ditlhobolo, jaanong re simolola go thusa gore go nne kagiso e e lolameng, ditlamelo di boele mo bathong, sengwe le sengwe, le itsholelo jaanong e boele mo bathong.

Le go rutuntsha masole a Mozambique jaanong gore ba ikemele ka nosi, mo e leng gore ke na le tumelo ya gore masole a rona a Botswana a tlaa boela gae mo nakong e e sa fediseng pelo.
Ke nne ke akgole ke re, tota ke go ema nokeng rraetsho, gore le nako e e rileng le ntse le le kwa, le ne la tsamaya le Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tautona wa lefatshe la Botswana, Dr Mokgweetsi Masisi, le batlela morwarraarona Rre Elias Magosi maemo a bo Executive Secretary mo SADC, mme ke ntse le tshono ya gore ke tsamae le lona, ke bone fa le ne le ntse le tsamaya nako e nngwe.
Fela Tautona o ne a dira tiro e ntle thata, e bile jaanong le gompieno jaaka re bua jaana, re bona lefatshe la rona la Botswana le tlotlwa thata mo mafatsheng a Afrika a re bapileng nao.

Ke lemogile gore ke tiro e ntle e le ntseng le e dira.

Ke sone tota se o bonang ke ema Tshutiso e ya gago ya go kopa madi nokeng.
Ke bone le dira tiro e ntle thata, Rre Magosi a bona tlhopho le kemonokeng, ke boeteledipele ka bontsi jwa SADC, go ne ga nna le mafatshe a le mabedi fela gongwe a a neng a eletsa kana ba eletsa gore go ka bo go tsene o sele.

Fela otlhe mafatshe a ne a re eme nokeng re le lefatshe la Botswana, mme selo se rraetsho, re tlaa se lebogela fela thata.
4 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Rraetsho, o tsene mo investment and tourism promotion fa o ntse o bua le rona, mme ke re tswelelang rraetsho.

Re a itse gore lefatshe la rona la Botswana le tlhokana le babeeletsi, and to be marketed, mme ka fa le dirang ka teng, re a go lebogela.
Maloba re ne re le kwa Bi-National kwa Zimbabwe, e rile fa Tautona wa Zimbabwe a leboga, a bua gore ga a ise a ko a bone tshwaragano e e tshwanang le e, e ne e le bogologolo fa e le gone ba tsayang boipuso, mme mo ngwageng o wa gompieno, o bona tshwaragano ya lefatshe la Botswana le la Zimbabwe e le e e kwa godimo thata.
Go supa gore tshwaragano e e teng, e bile e tlisa maduo, re ntse re na le dikgang tsa bogodu jwa leruo jo e neng e le gore dikgomo tsa rona tsa Botswana mo kgaolong ya Bobirwa di tlolela ka fa Zimbabwe.
Kgang e e tswa go buiwa ka manontlhotlho thata maloba kwa Bi-National, e bo Tautona wa Zimbabwe le ene a dumela gore tota mapodise a gagwe ba tlaa ema ka dinao gore ba lwantshe tiro e. Golo mo kana ke yone kagisano ya go supa gore mafatshe a re bapileng nao re berekisana sentle le one, fa go nna le dikgang tse di leng teng tse re batlang to be addressed, re a kgona gore re tshwaragane, re buisane le bone, re bo re tle ka ditharabololo.
Re a leboga thata gore kgang e ya bogodu jwa leruo jwa dikgomo le tse dingwe fela rraetsho, re setse re kgonne gore re e ise kwa godimo, e buisanngwe fela thata, e tshwaraganelwe.

Ke a itse gore le ka fa South Africa re ikaelela gore re e atolosetse ka koo, re buisane le bone.
Re lebogela gore botsalano jwa rona le lefatshe la Namibia le bone bo ile kwa godimo mo e leng gore re setse re buisana ka dilo tse di ntsi tsa go bona gore re ka dirisa lewatle la bone go tlisa dilo tse di tshwanang le petrol mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Re bula economy ya rona ka go bona gore re berekisane le bone, as we are a landlocked country, re ka kgona gore re tlise dithoto mo lefatsheng la rona re berekisana le mafatshe a tshwana le Namibia, South Africa le Mozambique a e leng gore re ntse re bereka le bone.

Fela rraetsho, ke ne ke re ka nako e tšhaile e setse e tabogile, ke go ema nokeng ka madi a o a kopileng.

Ke a leboga Modulasetilo wa Palamente.

MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Thank you Rra Nkamo.


Morning Mr Chairperson and morning Honourable Members.

Mr Chairperson, ntetlelele ke eme fa mo mosong ono, ke buise kopo ya ga Ngaka Kwape.

Ke e buisa ka maikutlo a a siameng ka jaana e le mongwe wa Ministers ba ke mo tlotlang thata.

Ke mo tlotlela go nna le theetso le tsebe ntlha go utlwa.
Ke tsena fela mo dikgannyeng ke tlhamaletse Mr Chairperson, ke re rraetsho ke go ema nokeng mo kopo madi a o a kopang mo Ntlong e. Ke go ema nokeng ka go nna re tswelela re go neela mofago.

Nngwe ya dilo tse ke di buileng mo nakong e e fetileng, ke labobedi ke bua mo kopong ya gago, ngogola ke buile, ke boa ke ipoeletsa gape ke bua.

E ne ya re ke sena go bua ke lela ka go tsamaya kana go ela ga noka ya Molopo, Modimo o o sa jeng nkabo wa nkutlwa, pula ya na, matamo a a agilweng mo nokeng eo a thubega.
Go ne go diragala e le sekao le sesupo sa gore fa o ka ema ka dinao o le Tona e e tshwaraganyang Botswana le mafatshe a sele, o bua ka ditso tsa tlholego tse di dirilweng ke Modimo, tse di lomaganyang mafatshe a rona le mafatshe a re bapileng le one, go ka kgonagala.

Ke gakologelwa mafoko sentle a mokaulengwe yo ke neng ke eme le ene ka nako ya ditlhopho, Rraetsho Rre Chimbombi, fa re ne re le mo debate a re the … (Inaudible)… ka re ee, …(Inaudible)… sengwe le sengwe se possible.
Ga le batla ke tlhalosa sentle, go possible gore noka e e elele e goroge le kwa Bokspits.

Ke nngwe ya dikgang tse e leng sekao se Modimo o se re supegeditseng nna le wena, gore fa o ka gatelela dikgang tse ke di utlwileng, gore tswelela ka go bua le mafatshe rraetsho, Namibia le South Africa, ba ntshe dinoka, ba ntshe matamo a ba emisitseng dilo tse ka tsone, gore Batswana le bone ba nne le go ka akola ditswa Modimong ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Batswana le bone ba ka bona ba roba mpho e e sa rekweng.
Dilo tse rraetsho, ke di bua jaana, ke itse gore ke di bua le motho yo o nang le tsebe go utlwa, ke eletsa gore tshokologong eno, o ntseye ke ye go go bontsha gore noka e e ema kae, e ema kwa lefelong le gotweng … (Inaudible)… fa nne go bulegile, re ka bo re bona batho ba McCathy’s Rust, …(Inaudible)… le ba Kolonkwaneng noka e gorogile kwa go bone.

Jaanong ka gore ba tsweletse ka go aga matamo a bone, ke sekgoreletsi.

Bontlenyane jo noka e ka bo tlisang e ka nna sengwe sa dilo tse dintle thata.
Rraetsho, nngwe ya dikgang tse ke neng ke re re bue ka tsone ke gore ke bona go na le ntwa ya Ukraine le Russia.

Re go utlwile maloba o bua ka bana ba Batswana ba ba kwa Ukraine le Russia, mme kana ntwa e tsweletse, but go re update re le Palamente le Botswana ka bana ba bone ba ba kwa lefatsheng leo, e kete o bonya ka go dira jalo Tona.

Ke ne ke eletsa gore morago ga malatsi a mabedi mangwe le mangwe, o tswelele o bue ka bana ba rona ba ba gone koo.
5 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Rraetsho, re go kopile, ga re bua ka investment, jaaka Rraetsho Mmusi a sa tswa go wela fa a ne a wela fale, re tshwanetse go bapadisanya le mafatshe a re bapileng le one, mme ga re ka ke ra bapadisanya le mafatshe a re bapileng le one, fa go sena ditsela, go sena se se re golaganyang, re go golaganngwa ke ditsela.
Ke dumela gore itsholelo ya lefatshe e kgweediwa e bo e kgokgoediwa ke batho ba lone.
Fa re ka nna le ditsela tse di lomaganyang Aferika Borwa le Botswana, segolo jang kwa Kgaolong ya Kgalagadi, ke bua ka Kurumane jaaka ke ne ke bua ka Kurumane, go tswa fa McCathys Rest, re bo re ralala McCathy’s Rest re tsena fa Tsabong, fa re sena kgolagano e e tsitlanyeng, e e nang le keletso, e Batswana ba Tsabong kana Batswana ba Kgalagadi Borwa ba ka ithusang ka go tsenya buses le combis, jaaka ba ba mo Gaborone, ba ya bo Gauteng, golo moo rraetsho, e tlaabo e le poelo morago.
Ke na le letshwenyego Tona gore go nna e kete fa ke lebile, go tswa goo-Lowe go lebilwe ntlha e le nngwefela gore go tshwanetse gore e re o batla go ya Gaborone kana go ya Gauteng, kana o tsenya combi kana bus, o bo o le mo Gaborone.

Rona ba Kgalagadi re lebetswe.

Rraetsho ke raya gore re gakologelwe.


Rraetsho, itshwaraganye gape le Tona wa Ditsela, gore fa a ka dira lebala, fa o lebile o na le bosupi jwa gore o le Motswana, o le Tona e e golaganyang mafatshe ka bobedi, o na le dipalo tsa difofane tse di tswang kwa mafatsheng a sele which land kwa Upington tse batho ba teng ba yang kwa Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park (KTP), ba ya bojanaleng.
Nna le wena rraetsho fa re ka ema ka dinao, ra bona gore lebala le le kwa Bokspits, ke ya go bua gape ka lone fa ba ka mpha tshono kwa transport.

Ke bua le Tona gore ga re ka tlhabolola lebala la Bokspits, golo moo go ka golaganya mafatshe.

O tshwanetse wa lebelela gore dikgaolo tse di siametseng gore batho ba ba tswang kwa mafatsheng a a kwa ntle, ba batla go tla go dira dikgwebo le to land ba ka ya fa kae.
Only last night, ke ne ke le mo phuthegong le batho bangwe ba batla go bula dikgwebo kwa Kgalagadi.

Selo sa ntlha se ba se mpoditseng ke gore a go na le lebala la difofane gone koo, se se tlaa dirang gore e re re le mo Gaborone, re kgone gore re fitlhelele Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi ka bofefo.
Dilo tse tsotlhe re di lebile mo diatleng tsa gago, gore ga re batla go oka bajanala, mme go sena ditsompelo tse ka tsone re ka okelang bajanala mo go tsone, ke lesidi la lesidi le re ka se keng re thuse batho ba dikgaolo tsa rona ka sepe.

Ke tswa mo kgaolong e e tswang kgakala e e keteng e lebetswe, e kete ga se kgaolo nngwe e e dirang Puso ya lefatshe le.
Ke sone se e reng ke bua, ke bo ke bua ke sa oshaoshe, e bile ke sa lebe kwa morago, e bile ke sa lebe gore yo o fa pele ga me ke ofe, ke ipuelela ka botswapelo, dilo tse rraetsho tse, ke ne ke re gongwe o eme ka dinao mongwame, o di buise, re dirisanye nna le wena ka tsone.

Ntaletsa kwa kantorong ya gago, le tle le kgone gore le farologanye dikgang tseo ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Re ne re le kwa America ngogola.


Fa re le kwa America, maAmerica fa ke na le Honourable Wynter le Rre Nkawana, ba ne ba bua fela ka dikgaolo tsa Maun.

Ke lebogela thata maiteko a ba United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) a ba a dirang kwa Kgalagadi le Ghanzi.

O bona fela gore Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi ga e itsiwe le kwa mafatsheng.

Fa re bua ka dintlenyane tsa bo Khawa, re bua ka dry land rraetsho, batho ba a kgatlhega, mme fela ga ba itse.
Jaanong ke ne ke re dilo tse rraetsho, ke di leba mo diatleng tsa gago mongwame, ke di tsaya ke di jala mo diatleng tsa gago gore ema ka dinao o bapatse lefatshe la Botswana.

Rraetsho, ke utlwa bakaulengwe ba omana gore ga o bapatse ba phathi e, o bapatsa ba phathi e, nnyaa, tswa mo go bapatseng diphathi mongwame, o dira sentle.
Bapatsa Batswana o sa lebe sephathi, o dira tiro e e tlhamaletseng, e e siameng, fela fa re ka simolola re batla go bapisa sephathi mo go bapatseng lefatshe la Botswana mo mafatsheng a sele, re simolola re itlhakatlhakanyetsa, le re e re iphatlha re sa lemoge gore re a iphatlha, re tsaya gore re ikgatlha ka yo o eteletseng pele, ke ganana le mafoko a a sa tswang go buiwa ke bangwe bakaulengwe ba re ga o a ka wa bapatsa motho kwa Lesotho, ga o a ka wa bapatsa semangmang kae, o mmitsa Lenyasa, o ka tswelela o bitsa motho lenyasa, fa e le gore lenyasa e ne e le lefoko la lesotlo, ke eng o sa le ntshe mo leganong la gago.
Re tshwanetse go tla ka kago e e siameng segolobogolo re go lebile.

Re lemoga fa o santse o tsweletse ka go dira sentle kwa Mozambique.

O dira sentle, lefatshe la Botswana le a galalediwa, re bala mo Facebook gore bana ba gago ba ba koo rraetsho, ba tshwere sentle Rre Kwape.

Rraetsho ga go na dikgang tse di kalo.

Nako ke yone mmaba.

Re tshwanetse fela gore re go eme nokeng, re bo re go galaletse, e kete Modimo o ka go fa botlhale wa tswelela wa go okeletsa fa o leng teng gore o bapatse lefatshe le.
E re o bua le bagwebi, o ba reye o re re na le Khawa.

Ga o ile kwa Dakar Rally, o ile go tsenelela mabelo, o ile go a bona, o ba reye o re tikologo ya Kgalagadi e e tshwanang le tikologo ya lona, re ka e bona kwa Kgaolong ya Kgalagadi e leng Khawa, 6 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) re eletsa go bapatsa bojanala jwa Kgalagadi, re bo atolositse.
Segolo jang ka lephata la ga Mma Kereng, le ntshitse seatla sa go batla go tlhabolola Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi, mme ke wena morekisi wa kgaolo eo.

Ene o ntsha ditlamelo, wena rekisa kgaolo ya Kgalagadi, ke tlaa nna seperepetšhane fa gare ga lona, ke nna ke opela pina e gore ba tle ba itse gore ga re bua ka Kgalagadi totatota re bua ka eng.

Mongwame mafoko ke ao, morogo wa ngwana o tlhopiwe ditlhokwa, tsaya go le kalo Modulasetilo, moseka phufu ya gaabo ga a swe lentswe.
Legonyana letlharapana ga le ke le galalwa le ya Kgotleng.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Brooks.

Ke go utlwa gore o ne o setse o tsena mo moweng gore kwa Kolonkwaneng ba go utlwe.

Ga ke itse gore a Motlotlegi Tona wa tsa Khiro le Dipatlisiso tsa Mmereko o tlile.

Fa a ise a tle…, ga o a kwalwa mo list mme ke ya go go bitsa fela gore kwa Maape, Moshopha le Bakgonami ba go utlwe.

Bua Rraagwe Kago.

GOBOTSWANG DR (SEFHARE- RAMOKGONAMI): Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.
Le nna ke emele go bua ka Lephata la Mafatshe a Sele.

Sa ntlha bagaetsho, re mo itsholelong e e reketlang.

Re tshwanetse gore tota e re fa re dira ditiro tsa rona re le maphata a a farologanyeng, re lebelele gore a mme re dirisa madi a rona ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng.

Le gore se se re boelang mo tirisong ya madi eo, a ke sengwe se re ka ipelafatsang ka sone.

Go buiwa ka value for money.

Ke batla gore ke bue thata ke mesepele, e re e tsamayang kwa mafatsheng a sele batho betsho.
Re ko re e sekaseke, re e tsenye leitlho re bone gore mesepele e, e ka tswa e le ya ga Tautona… MR CHAIRPERSON: Intshwarele pele Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Sefhare-Ramokgonami intshwarele morena wa me.

Motlotlegi Tona wa tlhogo e re buang mo go yone e, fa sebui se se latelang se seyo, o ipaakanye, ke tlile go go bitsa gore o fetole.

Tswelela Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Sefhare-Ramokgonami.
DR GOBOTSWANG: Se se botlhokwa ke gore re tlhodumele mesepele e e tsamaiwang ke Tautona, bogolo jang thata le Khuduthamaga ya gagwe.

Ke ntse ke lebile ka fa Tautona a tsamayang ka teng, ke tsaya gore Batswana ba a lemoga gore boammaaruri jwa kgang ke gore tota Tautona e setse e le mo ka o kareng o etela Botswana.

O nna kwa mafatsheng a sele, o kare o phikisana le Minister wa Merero ya Mafatshe a Sele ka go ya kwa mafatsheng a sele.
Fa o re o lebelela gore fa a ntse a tsamaya jaana maduo ke eng, nnyaa maduo ga a kalokalo.

A re lebeng leeto la maloba, o kare o fetile jaana a sia a ya go nna beke, Tautona a kgona go nna beke kwa mafatsheng a a kwa ntle, ga se selo se se tlwaelesegileng.

Ke a bona o ne a feta ka Brussels, le fa a le koo o ne o ka se ka wa itse gore leeto le a ke la gagwe fela o ile go ithuta ka fa dipodi di gamiwang le ka fa di ruiwang ka teng, a sa kopane le Tautona wa lefatshe la teng.
O ipotsa gore a o ile business ya gagwe fela kgotsa ke state visit.

It was very unclear, mme re dirisa madi a a seng kana ka sepe batho betsho.

Fa re lebile boTautona ba mafatshe a sele, ga ba ka ke ba tsamaya leeto le le kanakana ya re ba boa go bo go sena deal kana tumalano fela e e ka reng e buiwa baagedi ba bone gore nnyaa mme Tautona o ne a re tsamaetse.

Fa o ka leba sentle, o kare Tautona wa rona o a itsamaela fa o ka mo ela tlhoko sentle.
A re fokotseng mesepele, Tautona o tshwanetse gore a fokotse mesepele.

Honourable Serame tsenya leitlho o kgalemele Office of the President (OP), re lekeng go fokotsa ditshenyegelo tse di sa tlhokafaleng.

A ko o bone fela Khuduthamaga e e nnang kwa Dubai literally, these are tourists.

Go ya Honourable Kgafela, fa a tswa go tsamaya Honourable Kereng, fa a tswa go tsamaya Honourable Gare, gompieno gatwe go tsamaya Honourable Rakgare, fa a boa gatwe go tlaabo go tsamaya Honourable Mthimkhulu.
Ke ipotsa gore golo kwa Dubai gatwe go dirwa eng fela se setona.

Nnyaa bagaetsho, a re…(Interruptions)…golo kwa Dubai gatwe go dirwa eng... FOR AND PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE ADMINISTRATION MORWAENG): Procedure.

Ga se boammaaruri gore Rre Mthimkhulu o ya Dubai.

Ke kopa gore Motlotlegi Gobotswang a boele morago mafoko ao, ka gore o a itse gore ga a bue boammaaruri.

Ke motsadi motho yo, a a itshupe botsadi.

(MR HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga se gore o tlhalose gore go tsamaya mang?
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go Mthimkhulu ene o ya kae?

tsamaya mang, MR MORWAENG: Ke ne re ke re motsadi Rre Gobotswang, o a itse gore ga o a bua se e leng boammaaruri.

Ke kopa ka boikokobetso morwarre nkgonne, withdraw mafoko ao.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga se procedure.

7 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR CHAIRPERSON: Nnyaa, mmang Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Sefhare-Ramokgonami a ikarabele.
Gongwe o na le information e e seyong kwa go wena Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Selebi Phikwe East.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

Honourable Morwaeng o bolelela ruri, tota ke ne ke re ke tlhaba tsala ya me lesego, ka gore go tsamaya Matona fela.

Ke ne ke raya gore ba itlhalose.

Go tsamaya Matona fela, Bathusa Tona bone ga ba ka ke ba e bona Dubai, ga ba ka ke.
Go tsamaya namane tse ditona, bone ke ba ba yang kwa Sefhare, fa ba tswa koo ba isiwa Seronga, fa ba tswa Seronga ba ya Bokspits... HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… DR GOBOTSWANG: Wena Mma Serame, o se ka wa ba wa leka go bua ka gore gompieno jaana go senngwa madi a Botswana.

Re go file sephatšhe gore o se tlhokomele, o lesa Ministers ba ya Dubai ba ya go nna tourists.

Where are the deals tse ba tlang ka tsone?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga se gore o ba botse honourable, gore ba a bo ba ile go dira eng?
DR GOBOTSWANG: Bagaetsho, kgang ya me ke gore a re lekeng go fokotsa mesepele e e senang maduo.

Mesepele ya Dubai ga e na maduo gotlhelele, jaanong a re fokotseng go ya koo re foketse ditshenyegelo.

Honourable Minister, re tswa kgakala re bua ka a codified Foreign Policy ya Botswana, gore a go nne le policy fela e e kwadilweng e re ka e salang morago.

Gompieno re tshwara kwa le kwa.

Re itse gore tota fela re laolwa ke eng.

A re non-aligned, neutral kana re fa kae.


Gone ka gore re dikaganyeditswe ke mafatshe gatwe re landlocked, ra reng ka seo.

Dilo tse di tshwanetse gore di kwalwe.

Honourable Kekgonegile o ntse a bua fa gore, jaanong o kare re gogela mo go reng re tlaa laolwa ke gore madi le business le itsholelo ra reng ka tsone.

A go kwalwe go papamale, re itse gore ra reng ka dilo tse.

Ka fa re tsayang ditshwetso ka teng tse di amanang le tsa mafatshefatshe, Botswana is quite unpredictable.
Ga o ka ke wa itse gore fa go tsena Iraq ba ya go tlhopha ba reng, fa go tsena Ukraine ba ya go tlhopha ba reng, ka gore ga ba na policy fela e e tlhwaafetseng e e bonalang… …Silence… MR CHAIRPERSON: Did we lose you Honourable Member?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ole.

MR CHAIRPERSON: O re latlhegetse, Honourable Member for Sefhare-Ramokgonami!

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ke teng Mr Chairperson… (Inaudible)…I am back.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Please go ahead Honourable Member.


DR GOBOTSWANG: Re tlhokana le policy ka bonako jo bo kgonagalang Honourable Minister.

E diegile thata, ke yone e e neng e ka re laolela gore re dira dilo ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Sengwe se se tshwanetseng go re tshwenya re le lefatshe la Botswana ke gore, e bo o kare ga re gate sentle le mafatshe a re bapileng le one.
President wa rona o a tsamaya mafatshe otlhe, rona re akanya gore o leka go re lomaganya le gore re tsamaye sentle le ba bangwe, mme re tshwanetse go simolola mo gae, mo SADC, re bone gore a re gata sentle le maSADC.

Fa ke lebile ka fa re tlhophileng ka teng maloba mabapi le kgang ya Ukraine le Russia, ke bone gore ga re gate sentle.

Ke yone kgang ya ntlha e re tshwanetseng gore re ele tlhoko eo.

Sa bobedi ke melawana ya rona ya COVID-19, ka fa re neng re e tsamaisa ka teng.
Re tla ka mandatory vaccine ka ditsela tse di ntseng jalo, mme ba bangwe ba rona ba dirisa go sele.

Dikgang tse re tshwanetse gore re leke go di nyalanya.

Fa re santse re re motho a bo a kentilwe a na le bo 72 hours, mafatshe a mangwe a SADC ba re e bo e le kgwedi or something like that.

Fa re ka se ka re dire jalo, re tlaa iphitlhela re thulathulana le mafatshe a mangwe, ka gore gompieno le trade kana go gwebisana le mafatshe a mangwe, go tlaa tloga go re tsenya mo mathateng Honourable Minister.
Sengwe se re neng re solofetse gore re ka bo re boleletswe ka sone tota, ke sa gore re nnile le kgang le Namibia.

Honourable Minister, ga o ise o re bolelele gore kgang ele ya rona le Namibia ya go fulana gore e tsamaile jang, go raya eng?

Re batla gore re gate sentle le maNamibia, re tshele sentle le bone.

E nngwe ke ka fa re dirisanyang ka teng le lefatshe la South Africa.

Bagaetsho, we have to admit gore South Africa re tshela ka ene.

Re na le masika le bone.


Ga re a tshwanela go dira dilo tse di re kgopakgopetsang, e bile di re thulathulanya le maSouth Africa.

Dikgang tsa ma100 billion di ne di sa tshwanela go ka bo di diragetse.

Go hiriwa ga boGerrie Nel le Afriforum, ga se dilo tse di siameng tse di ka 8 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) nonotshang tirisanyo ya rona le South Africa.
A ko re ipaakanyeng bagaetsho, re gateng sentle le ba bangwe, fa e seng jalo re tlaa tsena mo mathateng.

Re tshwanetse go dirisanya le South Africa ka gore re batla gore borogo jwa Martin’s Drift bo bulwe.

Tirisanyo ya rona le South Africa ka go gweba e tsamae sentle.

Ke kgang e re e emetseng ka matlho a mahibidu mo kgaolong ya rona batho betsho.

Tirisanyo ya rona le Zimbabwe ga re e beye sebete re le Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC), gotlhelele fela.
O kgona go bona gore tirisanyo ya rona le Zimbabwe, fa go na le sengwe se se batliwang gone jaana, ke belaela gore ke go utswa ditlhopho tsa 2024.

Ga go na sepe se se elwang kwa Zimbabwe.

Ga go na botsala bope jo bo tlaa re busetsang sepe.

Gompieno jaana Botswana ga e ka ke ya bua sepe ka gore maloba jaana kwa Gweru, batho ba ne ba tlhasetswe ke ba party e e busang.

Ba ba keteka ka melamu, ba tla ka digai, dilepe le dilo tsotlhe, ba felela ba bolaile yo mongwe.
Goromente wa Botswana ga a ka ke a bua sepe ka gore ke tsala ya ga Mnangagwa.

Ke belaela gore e, ke ya go utswa ditlhopho tsa 2024, ke gone fela mo ke bonang go ya teng.

Kgang e nngwe e re tshwanetseng go e tlhalosediwa Honourable Minister, ke ya Africa Command (AFRICOM) e maAmerica ba lekang go nna le bases mo mafatsheng a Africa le a a tlhabologang.

Re a ne re utlwa gotwe le kopana le Commanders, boGeneral Steven Townsend, re sa itse gore le buisana ka eng?

Maikaelelo a lona ke eng?


Go ka nna ga tshwenya mafatshe a re bapileng le one gore Botswana e ka iphitlhela kwa bofelong e dirile gore re nne le bases fa e leng gore maAmerica ba remeletse teng, re ba file lefatshe foo.

Ba ithutela teng, e le ka fa ba ipaakanyetsang gore ba tlaa lwa dintwa mo boemong jwa rona kana jang.

Ke dilo tse di sa re siamelang bogolo jang thata le ba re bapileng le bone Mr Chairperson.

Dubai; ra re a Dubai a eme, le senya madi a setšhaba.

Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.


LUCAS (BOBONONG): Ke a MR leboga Modulasetilo.

Bagarona ba di buile dikgang.

Ke simolole fela ka e ya masole a rona a a kwa Mozambique.

Go a lebega re setse re latlhegetswe ke bana ba le babedi, mme ke re a mewa ya bone e robale ka kagiso.

Tona wa Mafatshe a Sele, e ne e rile fa ba emelela, wa re bolelela gore ke kgaa-tshoo!

fela ba a boa.

Go tlaare o nne o re lekodise seemo ka go lebega gore tota o ne o sa e tshwara sentle gotlhelele, e ne e go phunyugile.
O nne o re lekodise gore ba tsamaya fa kae, le fa o sa re lekodisa nako e ba neng ba emelela gore bana ba rona ba tsogile jang kwa Mozambique.

Go botlhokwa thata gore o re lekodise.

Sa bobedi, ke batla go tsena mo go e ya biannual meetings tse di tshwarwang fa gare ga lefatshe la rona le a re bapileng le one.

Biannual meetings tse re di tshwarang le lefatshe la Zimbabwe, tota maduo a teng, ga ke itse, gongwe mo Gaborone a a bonala.
Maduo a teng kwa dikgaolong tse di tshwanang le Bobirwa, re utlwa gotwe go kopanwe go buiwa ka dikgang tsa rona, bogolo jang kgang e ke tshelang ke bua ka yone kgapetsakgapetsa gore le fa go kile ga nna le commission, ga nna le maiteko otlhe, dikgomo tsa Babirwa di felela kwa Zimbabwe.

Go lebega e kete ga go na maiteko ape a a dirwang ke biannual meetings tse.

Ga re bone maduo a biannual meetings tse gotweng di tshwarwa magareng ga President wa Botswana le Zimbabwe.
A ko re bone maduo, e seng jalo re tlile go tsaya gore e a bo e le bokopano jwa boitumelo jwa go bokana gore re Ditautona, a re tswelele pele re nne Ditautona.

Re batla go bona pharologanyo mabapi le tse di dirwang go tlhomamisa gore dikgomo tsa Babirwa ga di tlolele kwa Zimbabwe.

Se sengwe se ke batlang go se bua ke biannual meeting e go lebegang e e tle e tshwarwe magareng ga lefatshe la South Africa le la Botswana.
Mme Serame e kile ya re mo nngwe ya dikarabo tsa dipotso, a supa gore ba tlaa tshwara meeting fa gare ga South Africa le Botswana ba bua ka border ya Platjan.

Border eo ba buisane ka yone gore ba dumalane gore e nne a commercial border.

E nne border e re ka kgonang go gwebisana le ba Aferika Borwa go le motlhofo.

Go lebela e kete ga go na sepe se se setseng se tswa koo.

Mme Serame, buisana le molekane wa gago wa Mafatshe a Sele gore kgang e, e kopanelwe mo go biannual meetings tse di buiwang.
Fa e le gore ga o e itse Rre Kwape, o e botse Mme Serame.

Ke ene yo o neng a bua gore meetings tse di e tle di tshwarwe.

Border ya Platjan re dumela gore ke nngwe ya borders tse di ka thusang kgwebo fa gare ga Botswana le South Africa.

E bile gape e ka thusa kgwebo fa gare ga Botswana le Zimbabwe.

E ka thusa thata mo tourism mo kgaolong ya rona ya kwa Mashatu.

Tona, a ko o re ele tlhoko le Tona wa Mafatshe a Sele, o e tsenye mo agenda.

Ke sengwe sa dilo tse go ka buisanngwang ka sone go tlhwaafetswe.
Go ka re thusa fela thata ka ba EU ba re solofeditse gore ba tlaa dira tsela e e tswang mo Platjan and join ya Mathathane- Bobonong.

Gone moo go raya gore Bobirwa o tlaabo a kgona to join Selebi Phikwe-Francistown le Kazungula.

Mathata ke fa e le gore border e, e santse e le non- commercial.

Go raya gore ga re ka ke ra kgona go dira kgwebo e e tlhwaafetseng ka yone.
9 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Sengwe se ke neng ke re Tona o se ele tlhoko ke molao wa mafatshefatshe wa UN Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

Ke batla gore o re fe pego sentle rraetsho ya gore re tsamaya fa kae re le lefatshe mabapi le molao one o wa mafatshefatshe.

Molao o wa UN Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights o neela mongwe le mongwe ditshwanelo.
Ditshwanelo tsa go nna le bonno, botsogo jo bo rileng, mongwe le mongwe a nne le tshwanelo ya thuto e e quality.

O supe gore re tsamaya fa kae?

A re setse re beile monwana kana re tlaa baya monwana?

Fa e le gore re beile monwana, o re kaetse gore ke eng go lebega e kete ditshwanelo tse di tshwanang le tsa botsogo, ga di salwe morago ka tlhwaafalo mo lefatsheng la Botswana?

Gompieno jaana re bua ka tlhaelo e e tlhabisang ditlhong ya melemo mo dipateleng tse dintsi tsa Botswana.
Batho ba ba bolawang ke bolwetse jwa khupelo, ba na le mathata a sprays all over.

Gone moo ka bogone, go supa gore tshwanelo ya bone ya botsogo ga e salwe morago.

Batho ba ba bolawang ke malwetse a tshwana le high blood, ga ba bone melemo.

Go raya gore tshwanelo ya bone ya go bona melemo ya go nna jalo, ga e nne teng.

Ka jalo, go raya gore matshelo a bone a tsena mo diphatseng.
Fa gongwe fa re beile monwana melao e tshwana le ya UN Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, re ka tobetsa Puso sentle gore melao ke e, e e re patikang gore re tlhokomele tšhaba ya rona.

Re itse gore tse re ba di direlang, ke tshwanelo e ba tshwanetseng go e bona.

This covenant also e supa ka go bereka.

Dilo tse tsotlhe re tshwanetse go di ela tlhoko Tona… MR CHAIRPERSON: Ke le okeleditje molamo le ka apaya fela.

MR LUCAS: Ke a leboga molamo.

Hayi!


O nthusitse, five minutes, batho ba ntse ba ndima banna.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Ah!

Ke le file kgomo ya me, apayang.

MR LUCAS: Ee, o mphile?

MR CHAIRPERSON: Ke le file molamo.

MR LUCAS: Ke tswelele pele, ke ne ke le mo go ya Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.
Fa go ntse jaana batho betsho, ga re a tshwanela go itlhophela gore re saena monwana melao efe, ga re saene efe e e re patikang re le lefatshe gore re diragatse ditshwanelo tsa batho ba rona, re bo e nna e kete re a e dikologa, go botlhokwa thata gore re sale morago dikgang tse.

Re tlhomamise gore batho ba rona ba na le tshwanelo ya go bereka, botsogo, thuto le bonno.

Fa o bua ka tshwanelo ya bonno, ke ya maemo a a kwa godimo fela thata.
Fa o sena fa o nnang teng, go raya gore it also compromises your health.

Gone moo ka bogone, ga go re thuse ka sepe batho betsho.

Ke tsene mo kgannyeng e nngwe e e neng Honourable Gobotswang a le mo go yone ya Dubai.

Hei!

Dubai yo o a tsamaiwa.


I think go tlaa tshwanelwa ke gore kwa bofelong fela re ko re itse gore tota mme madi a a dirisitsweng mo Dubai a tsamaelana jang le dipoelo tse re di boneng koo ka gore fa gongwe re tlaabo re nna re le mo mesepeleng yone e, go duelwa per diem, maroko le tsele le tsele mme fa o re o leka go sekaseka gore gone mme maduo a mesepele e ke eng, fa gongwe o fitlhela maduo ao a sa bonale.

Go botlhokwa thata gore yone eo re e sale morago.


Go na le kgang gape e le gore maloba Tautona o ne a siana thata ka Rraetsho Elias Magosi gore e nne ene Executive Secretary wa SADC.

O sale jaaka a tsene, ga ke ise ke utlwe sepe se se popota se gotweng o a se dira.

E bile se ke se lemogang ke gore fa gongwe o kare there is dissonance between ka fa lefatshe la rona le berekang ka teng le mafatshe a mangwe le ka fa e leng gore go ne go ntse go ntse… MR CHAIRPERSON: Tanki Kgomo ya me.

MR LUCAS: Thank you.


MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Lucas, your time is up.

Ke jone Kgomo.

Ke ne ke le okeledije lena.

MR LUCAS: Ke lebogile.

O ne o rile o tlile go mpha five minutes.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Hei, ke le file, le a deola jwale.

Honourable Minister of Foreign Affairs, please reply to the debate, Honourable Minister Kwape.
MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION (DR KWAPE): Ke a leboga Modulasetilo gore o bo o mphile sebaka jaanong gore ke tle ke atlaatle tse batlotlegi ba di buileng.

Fela kwa tshimologong, ke leboge batlotlegi botlhe go ema nokeng kopo e ka gore bontsi bo ne bo welana mo go tse re neng re di bua.

Go na le fa ba neng ba ntsha dikgakololo teng.

Jaanong dikgakololo tseo ke tlaa di atla ka bongwe ka bongwe.
Kgotsa gongwe ke simolole ka e e ntseng e felelela ya ga Honourable Lucas a bua ka masole a rona a a tlhokafaletseng kwa lefatsheng la Mozambique e bile a 10 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) supa gore o isa kgomotso le gore ba robale ka kagiso.

Seo se a lebosega gore se bo se tswa mo motsading wa bone.
Ya tekodiso ya seemo se se kwa Mozambique, ke na le tumelo ya gore ke kile ka tla mo Palamenteng, le Honourable Mmusi o kile a tla a lekodisa gore re tsamaya fa kae.

Kgakololo eo re e tsere, re tlaa nna re ntse re lekodisa gore go tsamaya jang.

DR KWAPE: Motlhala ga o o bone ka ga o batle go o bona.

Boammaaruri ke gore kokelo go felele go tserwe tshwetso gore e tle kwa Bobirwa, Puso e a bo e tsere tshwetso ya gore e ye kwa Bobirwa.
Gore tsela ya Platjaan e dirwe, tshwetso e a bo e tserwe ke Puso mme e a bo e tshwaragane le one mafatshe ao.

Ke re ke fete ka yone eo.

Ya Bi-National Commission (BNC) jaaka o ne o bua gore go ilwe Zimbabwe mme ga o itse gore go dirwa eng, ga ke itse motlotlegi ka gore ke ne ke itheile ka re dinako tsotlhe fa go buiwa ka kgang e ya dikgomo tse di tlolang molelwane, o ne o le teng o rerisiwa wa bo wa tla mo Ntlong e wa bua ka fa o itumetseng ka teng.

Jaanong gompieno o nna motlhanka wa mafoko a gago.


Fela boammaaruri ke gore tiro e tshwaraganetswe ke mafatshe oo mabedi.

Nngwe ya tshwetso e e tserweng ke gore go lomaganwe gore go se ka ga nna le se se ntseng se diragala, e seng fela kwa kgaolong ya gago, le kwa kgaolong ya ga Rre Molebatsi le Rre Letsholathebe.

Motlotlegi, go botlhokwa gore re nne re bua dilo jaaka di ntse, bogolo jang fa re ne re na le seabe mo dilong tsa teng.
O boditse gape gore BNCs tsa kwa South Africa le Namibia di tlaa nna leng?

Malatsi a tsone a ntse jaana; South Africa ke 19 to 22 April fa ya Namibia e tlaa nna ka 31 May to 3 June.

Re ntse re etsaetsisiwa ke seemo se re mo go sone sa bolwetse re sa kgone go kopana.

Go na le dinako tse go tleng go diragale gore e re re tshwanetse gore re kopane kgotsa bolwetse bo bo bo tlhagogile mo bangweng ba ba tshwanetseng gore ba nne teng mo mafatsheng ao, mme rra di tsweletse.
Le go tsamaya ga ga Tautona ka o go amile le wena gore o a bo a tsamaelang, o bona madi ao fela a tsela ya Platjaan a a ntshiwang ke EU, o a bo a tsamaela tiro eo.

Jaanong ke leboga gore o buile maduo a go tsamaya ga ga Tautona.

Le gone go agiwa dikokelo kwa bo Molalatau jaaka o ne o tlhobosa mo go tsa botsogo, ke maduo a gore go a kgathalwa ka gore botsogo jwa batho, bogolo jang ba kgaolo e o mo go yone, ba bo ba lebeletswe.

Mosepele wa Dubai, ke tsaya gore batlotlegi ba segela ngwana thari mpeng.
MR LUCAS: Clarification Mr Chairperson.

Rraetsho fa a bua ka dikgang tse dingwe, a nne a bua nnete.

Kokelo ya kwa Molalatau e ne e agiwa ke ba World Group.

Ga se e e neng e tsamaetswe ke Tautona.

Madi a EU, ga go na motlhala ope o o supang gore Tautona o kile a nna le seabe mo go one rraetsho.

Ya Dubai, o segela ngwana thari mpeng motlotlegi.


Ke eng re sampe ra bona gore go tswa go dirwa eng ra tla go fiwa pego, ya re re sena go fiwa e bo e le gone re ka ntshang megopolo, ra se ka ra bua dilo di ise di buiwe?

Tse di builweng ke Motlotlegi Rre Gobotswang, o ne a botsa ka mesepele ya ga Tautona le ene a re kwa bo Europa o ne a ile go dira eng?

Re ne re bua maloba gore re dule mo FATF.

Gompieno jaana ke nako fela re tlaabo re tswa mo blacklisting.
Golo moo go botlhokwa gore Tautona a bo a ne a ile koo a ile go bua le bone go ba bolelela ka tse re di tshwereng, tse di re bayang mo maemong a mantle.

O ne o bona maloba kwa America go saenwa ditumalano tsa gore go tle go dirwa melemo mono… MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Clarification Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, ke bona o kare o tlaa e feta ka pela eo e e neng e bua ka Europa, Honourable Minister.
Ke dumela gore batlotlegi fa ba itse gore re batla to host Secretariat ya the Kimberly Process.

Ke dumela gore le yone ba ne ba utlwa le mo dikgannyeng gore go ne go le botlhokwa gore Tautona a ye go ikopanya le bone ba ba maleba.

Re le Botswana, re dumela gore re mo sebakeng se se siameng sa gore re bangwe ba ba eteletseng pele ka go rekisa diteemane e bile re di dira ka tsela e e siameng e e sa belaetseng ka sepe.
Re dumela gore re mo sebakeng se se siameng gore re ka host Secretariat ya Kimberly Process.

Honourable Minister, ke dumela gore mo gongwe batlotlegi ga ba nke ba ipha nako ya go botsa sentle ba sa tsholetsa maikutlo gore ba tlhaloganye dilo tse.

Ba fetisetsa kwa pele go bua dikgang ba phatšha mafoko, ba šhebetla fela mme ba sa babalele mafoko a ba a buang.

Ke a leboga motlotlegi.

DR KWAPE: Ke a leboga Tona.


E bile ke lebogela gore o ba gakolole gore kana fa re le fa re le Mapalamente re emetse batho, se re se buang, batho ba se tsaya e le boammaaruri, bogolo jang fa re se bua re tsholeditse mafatlha.

Jaanong kgotsana go botlhokwa gore re le batlotlegi re nne re mpa pitsa e butswa, e se ka ra e šhašhola e ise e butswe.
11 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Go na le dikgang tse di buang gore Tautona o tsamaya fela ga go itsewe gore o dira eng.

Selo santlha, Tautona fa a tsamaya, o tsamaya le babegadikgang.

Fa a le kwa a leng teng, o dira pego ya gore o tshwere eng, o dira eng.

O dira jalo a le koo le fa a goroga.


Go a kwalwa, kwa ntleng fela fa batlotlegi ba batla go nthaya ba re ga ba reetse dikgang e bile ga ba bale dipampiri tsa dikgang.

Kana eo ga se molato wa me ka gore Batswana bone ba a bala ba itse se Tautona o a bo a se ba tsamaetse kwa a bo a tsamaya teng.

O buile ka Namibia rra wa botsa gore go ne ga felela jang ka kgang?

Le yone e mpolelela gore motlotlegi ga o dire tiro ya gago ya go ineela dikitso tsa gore go diragala eng mo lefatsheng.
Go ne ga nna le a joint investigation e e neng e dirwa ke maNamibia le Batswana.

Go ne ga nna le inquest.

Reports tsa teng tsotlhe di dule.

They are in the public domain.

Jaanong ke kopa gore Motlotlegi Gobotswang ka e ibile o mmatlisisi rraetsho, o nne o phutholola dibuka, se lebale gore o ithutetse go bala le go kanoka, dilo tse o di dirile.

Gape re nne re ela tlhoko ka fa re buang ka mafatshe a mangwe ka teng ka gore e bile re bua dipuo tse di tshwanang.
Fa re bua re ba nyefola, re sa ba bue sentle, re senya gone mo go neng go buiwa maabane ke Honourable Reatile, a re re ele tlhoko gore fa re bua ka lefatshe la Botswana, re bua jang ka gore re a itshenyetsa.

Le ditsala tsa lona tse di sa bueng Botswana sentle, le di itse go nkgaisa, di gakololeng gore Botswana o buiwa sentle gore batho ba tle ba ngokege go batla go dira ditlhabololo le go beeletsa mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Fa re ka tswelela re dira jaana mo Ntlong ya Palamente, mme e bile re reeditswe ke setšhaba, setšhaba se ithaya se re se buang ke boammaaruri, le ntswa e se boammaaruri.

Modulasetilo, ke batla go bua gore mafoko a a builweng ke Honourable Gobotswang ga se boammaaruri, setšhaba se se ka sa tsaya mafoko ao e le boammaaruri gore, ga go a dirwa sepe ka kgang ya kwa Namibia.
Mafoko a a dirisiwang go re thulanya le mafatshe a mangwe e bile a dirisiwa ke Batlotlegi Mapalamente ...(Inaudible)… Afrika Borwa ke mafoko a e leng gore kamoso... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Chairperson.

Procedure Mr MR CHAIRPERSON: Procedure, the voice ke la ga Honourable Member for Sefhare-Ramokgonami.

What is your procedure?

DR GOBOTSWANG: Point of procedure.

My procedure ke gore, Honourable Minister a se ka a tsenya mafoko a ke sa a buang a re, ka re ga go a dirwa sepe.
Ka re ga re ise re lekodisiwe re le setšhaba sa Botswana, e seng nna, setšhaba sa Botswana, gore kgang ya rona le Namibia sentlentle e fedile ka tsela e e ntseng jang, a dilo tsa rona di siame sentle?

A maNamibia ba kgotsofetse?

Go bolelelwa setšhaba sa Botswana, e seng nna.

Nna ke a bala dipampiri, reports... MR CHAIRPERSON: You have made your point... DR GOBOTSWANG: Ke emetse setšhaba... MR CHAIRPERSON: You have made your point Honourable Member.

Therefore, ga se procedure eo, ke correction.


Honourable Minister, your colleague is not happy.

DR KWAPE: Ke gana paakanyo eo ka gore go papametse gore Motlotlegi Gobotswang o bala dipampiri dingwe, dingwe ga a di bale.

Fa a ne a di bala tsotlhe, o ka bo a itse kwa boammaaruri bo teng, ka gore kgang eo e weditswe.
Jaanong ke ne ke feta ka ya Afrika Borwa e Motlotlegi Gobotswang a neng a bua gape ka yone ke re, fa re ka bua dipuo tse di tlaa re thulanyang le mafatshe re le Batlotlegi Mapalamente, re itse gore re baya lefatshe le mo diphatseng.

Ga gona sepe se se lwelwang fa gare ga lefatshe la Botswana le la Afrika Borwa.

Ke gone mo ke le fang malatsi a re yang go kopana, go supa gore ditirisanyo tsa rona ke tse di edileng.

Tse dingwe tse di neng di bodiwa, ke batla go ama tse di builweng ke Honourable Kapinga.
Tse a neng a bua gore go nne le tsamaiso e e edileng, e farologana le e batlotlegi ba babedi ba ke ntseng ke bua ka bone ba ntseng ba bua ka yone gore, go botlhokwa gore re age gore batho ba tle ba re bone.

Fa re itshaolola jaaka ke utlwa batlotlegi ba bangwe ba batla gore ba re saolole, ke gone mo go dirang gore kamoso e bo jaanong re tlaa balelwa mo mafatsheng mangwe a ke ka sekeng ke a bue ka maina.

O buile gape ka gore, e re re thapa batho mo lephateng, re lebelele batho bangwe.
Ke tsaya gore Rre Morwaeng o ne a mo araba a re go na le tsamaiso ya khiro, mme ka ke direla mo lephateng le, ke itse gore Botswana ka bophara o emetswe, bogolo jang mo merafeng e a neng a bua ka yone, fa a ne a batla gore ke bomang ba ba tswang kwa, o ne a ka fiwa.

Ke tsaya gore golo mo go botlhokwa go gaisa dilo tsotlhe ke gore Batswana ba dira ka bokgabane, ka mewa ya bone yotlhe, go dira gore lefatshe la Botswana le tume kwa mafatsheng a mangwe.
12 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Mme Mma Kereng, o ne a bua ka fa re tshwaraganeng ka teng le lephata le a le emetseng, jaaka maloba re ne re tswa kwa Kenya re ile go lebelela ka dilo tsa tikologo.

Re ne re tshwaragane, boemedi jwa rona e le jone bo re lomaganyang.
A bua gape gore re tshwanetse go ba neela tseo tsotlhe tse ba di tlhokang, gore dilo tse ba di dirang ba di dire ka manontlhotlho, gore re tswelele re tsholetse lefatshe la rona kwa godimo.

O ne a bua gape ka Kuwait, gore kwa Kuwait o kare go a reketla, nnyaa go a baakanngwa, e tlaare mo nakong e e sa fediseng pelo e bo seemo se ritibetse, ka gore yo o neng a tshwere koo o ne a boela gae.

Jaanong yo mongwe o a rulaganyediwa gore a tswelele kwa pele.
Go nnile le kgang ya gore kwa mafatsheng a re nnang kwa go one, dikago tse re nnang mo go tsone ga se tsa rona, eo ke a e amogela, e bile rents tse re di duelang di kwa godimo.

Di kwa godimo ka gore fa o tsena mo lefatsheng o le moemedi wa lefatshe, ga o nne gongwe le gongwe fela, o tlhophelwa mafelo a e leng gore pabalesego ya one ke e e siameng, go bo go raya gore boturu bo ya kwa godimo.
Jaanong se re se tshwereng ke go bona gore ke mafelo a fe bogolo jang a a turu a re ka a ipatlelang gore re ikagele kana re reke dikago.

Sebe sa phiri fela ke ledi le le seyong, mme Mma Serame ke tsaya gore o ntheeditse gore go tlaa tshwanela ke gore re lebelele kgang e thata, gore re bonelwe ledi golo gongwe, re tle re kgone go fiwa dikago tse e ka nnang tsa sennelaruri re sa duele dirente.

Honourable Reatile, gape o ne a bua gore re tshwanetse go nna re buisanya ka foreign policy.
Ke gateletse gore e tshwerwe, e setse fela ka go baakanngwa la bofelo, mme e tlaare e sena go baakanngwa yone phelelo eo, re tle go e atlhaatlha.

Re gakologelwe batlotlegi gore, kana foreign policy tota is the projection of a domestic policy.

Jaanong fa domestic policy ya rona e le go tlhoka go bua mafatshe a mangwe sentle, foreign policy ya rona ga e ka ke ya bereka.
Jaanong re itse gore fela jaaka re bua mo Palamenteng e e reediwang ke ditšhaba, kana Botswana Television e reediwa le kwa bo Kenya, Tanzania le Malawi, mme ba bangwe ba bua tse re di buang.

Jaanong ba a re utlwa jaaka re nyefola, mme kana selo se se tona se Botswana a tlotlwang ka sone ke ka fa Motswana a itsayang ka teng, ke ka fa Batswana ba ntseng ka teng.
Jaanong fa e le baemedi ba bone ba bua Botswana jaaka re bo bua jaana, le itse gore foreign policy e re e batlang re e senya mokwalo wa teng o ise o kwalwe.

Jaanong batlotlegi bangwe ba ne ba bua gore ga ke ise ke tle go fa statements mo Palamenteng.

Ke file statements di le nne, mme ke amogela kgothatso eo gore re tlaa tswelela re ntse re tla mo Palamenteng go tla go bona gore tse re tlhokang go di lekodisa batlotlegi tse di maleba ke dife.
Rre Matsheka o ne a tsenya kgakololo ya gore, re lebelele gore a tse re di dirang bogolo jang tsa papadisanyo, a re a rotloetsa kana re ngokela papadi mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Ke mogopolo o montle rra, mme ke tsaya gore e tlaare re ntse re bua re tshwaragane, dilo tse di kgone go diragala.

Ka kakaretso o ne a bua gore... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Go ahead Honourable Minister, on your clarification.
MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Point of clarification.

Yes, thank you very much Honourable Kwape.

Ke ne ke re kgang e o lekile go e tlhatswa kgantele, mme ke ne ke dumela gore ga e a tlhatswega thata Honourable Minister.

Ke go botse gore, mme ka o ne o amanngwa le loeto la ga Tautona thata, go supafala gore o nna o tsamaya o ya kwa ntle, le ene Tautona o tsamaya thata a ya kwa ntle, go bua ba ga rona ba kganetso, a wena mme o bona maduo mo maetong a lona?
Maduo, (i) kgang e ya go leka go ngoka babeeletsi go tla mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

(ii) kgang ya gore fela botsalano le leke gore le bo godise between Botswana le mafatshe a mangwe.

Ke bua se Honourable Kwape ka gore, mo nakong e e fetileng ba ga rona ba kganetso ba ne ba kile ba kgala thata Former President Khama gore o nna fela mo Botswana, ga nke a ya kwa ntle jaanong re ya go aga botsalano jang le mafatshe a mangwe go sena seo.
Sa bofelo Honourable Kwape, mo kgweding e e tlang re tlaabo re na le Forbes Under 30 e tla mo lefatsheng la Botswana e ya ...(Inaudible)… for the very first time ...(Inaudible)… e tla mo lefatsheng.

Re ya go nna le 200 entrepreneurs ba e leng gore ke bana ba Batswana, that will be participating mo karolong e. Dilo tse o di amanye, o tle o re thuse, gore re tlhaloganye botoka.

Ke a leboga Honourable Member.

DR KWAPE: Mma ke simolole fela ka ya Forbes eo.


Kana fa gotwe e tlaabo e tshwaretswe mo lefatsheng la Botswana e le lantlha, go sa tlhophiwa lefatshe le lengwe go tlhophilwe la Botswana, go raya gore sengwe se ne se bonwe mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Fa ba tlile 13 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) jalo, ba tlile go dira gore batho ba ngokegele go tla go dira madirelo mo Botswana.
Jaanong fa re boela mo go tse dingwe motlotlegi, jaaka o ne o botsa, ke swa go bala fela, ke buile gore, gompieno jaana re dule mo greylist, re tlaa tloga re tswa mo blacklist, mme dilo tse ke maduo a go tsamaya ga ga Tautona a lebagana le batho ba e leng gore ke bone ba ba re beileng mo greylist.
A ba bolelela gore, kwa Botswana re fetisitse melao, e e fetisitsweng ke Palamente e. Jaanong fa a tsamaya a ya go bua lona tse le di dirileng Mapalamente, le bo le nyatsa go tsamaya ga gagwe, jaanong a mpheletse a le tlhaeng.

Maloba go ne go tlile rre wa NantWorks, a tlile go saena tumalano ya gore go dirwe melemo e seng fela ya COVID, le ya kankere.

A dilo tse ga le di bone, kana le borile leitlho fa di dirwa?
Kana le a di itlhokomolosa ka gore fa go buiwa dilo tse dintle, go tlaa galalediwa Tautona ka tiro e a e dirang?

Jaanong ke batla gore re itshekatsheke mo bojosing jwa rona batlotlegi, bogolo jang ba ba nyatsang dilo tse, re itse gore dilo tse Batswana bone ba a di bona.

A di lekane?

Nnyaa, ke gone mo o bonang re tsweletse re dira jalo.

Re a emelela gape re ya Dubai, maduo a teng a tlaa tswa le fa le setse le tlhobosa ngwana a ise a tsholwe.

Rre Reatile o ne a bua ka kgang ya Israel kwa AU.


Re papametse, ga re etsaetsege, ga re oshaoshe.

Re rile tsamaiso ya gore mang o tshwanetse gore a tsene mo AU go sa kgathalesege gore o nna setilo sefe, e tshwanetse gore e salwe morago.

Re e buile jalo kwa AU.

Gore a go dumalanwe le rona ga se kgang, kgang ke gore rona re buile.

Re buile gape gore re ema nokeng tshwetso e e tserweng ke lekgotla la mafatshefatshe mabapi le ntwa e e kwa Ukraine.
Re buile gape re papamaditse gore mafatshe a Sahrawi le a Palestine a ipuse.

Ga ke itse gore re tshwanetse gore re bue jang gore go utlwale, kana le batla gore ke nne ke didimala ke re mpuelela foo gore go tle go utlwale gore go diragetse?

otlhe, re tshwanetse re dumalane.


Se ke neng ke se bua Tona, gongwe o nkutlwa ka tsa ga morakile, o gana go nkutlwa ka tsa ga Ngwaketse; ke ne ke re o tshwanetse o lekodise Mapalamente gore kgang e jaaka le ne la bona ke ntshitse statement ke re ke re, re tswa kwa AU mme dikgang tsa rona gompieno di ntse jaana.

Se ke neng ke se bua ke ne ke re ga se any forum, go ne go dira an officer, a tsaya… Ga re itse gore o duetswe bokae.
Ke tsone dilo tse ke neng ke re fa o di abelana le Mapalamente le bagogi, go nna kaone.

Ga ke a re ga o a dira sepe.

Ke a leboga.

DR KWAPE: Motlotlegi o tshwanetse go itse gore tiro ya me ke go le lekodisa ka gore Botswana o tsere seemo sefe, ke se ka ka tloga ka buelela ba bangwe, gongwe ke sa ba buelele sentle.

Ke tlhalositse position ya Botswana le gore go diragetse eng kwa AU, le gore position eo ke yone e Botswana a santseng a le mo go yone.

HONOURABLE Honourable Kwape.


MEMBER: Clarification DR KWAPE: Ee Honourable Minister.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, for clarification.

FOR PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE ADMINISTRATION MORWAENG): (MR Clarification.

Ke a leboga.

Motlotlegi Rre Kwape, wa reng ka batho ba e leng gore e re e le benggae, ba bo ba tswa mo garona ba ya kwa mafatsheng a sele ba tladika lefatshe le leswe?

O a reng ka batho ba rraetsho?

Ke a leboga.


DR KWAPE: Motswana o a tle a re kgomo ya bogwe e tlhaba e sikegile lonaka, jaanong ba ba tlhabang ka naka tse di hubi tseo, ba tshwanetse gore ba kgalwe go sa kgalwe mathe fa ba bua lefatshe la bone jalo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Minister.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Hello!

DR KWAPE: Ee rra.

DR KWAPE: A mongwe o ne a batla go botsa gape?

MR CHAIRPERSON: sought.

Honourable Member for Jwaneng-Mabutsane, from the voice.
Clarification MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Kapinga, please switch off your cell phones.

Please go ahead Honourable Minister.

MR REATILE: Clarification.

Yes Mr Chairperson.

Minister, tla ke go leboge.


Kgang e o reng o swa go bala, ke dumela gore re tshela go bala ke e e leng gore fa re bua ka e ya observer status sa Israel, Botswana e le wena o duleng lantlha ka statement go feta mafatshe DR KWAPE: E nngwe e batlotlegi ba neng ba e bua ke gore mo Botswana go kganelwa batho gore ba se ka ba se ka ba tsena mo Botswana.
Motlotlegi Dikoloti o tlhalositse kgang e sentle mme e ntira gore ke gakologelwe kgang ya gore bolwetse jo fa bo simologa, 14 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) bontsi jwa bone ba ba buang ka kgang e, ba ne ba le fa kae.

Jaanong tlhotlhologolo le tsosa di letseng.

Le a itse tse di neng le di bua fa go buiwa ka bolwetse jo.
Gompieno gatwe a re sireletseng tšhaba ya Botswana le e e tsenang mo Botswana ka go rotloetsa batho gore ba bo ba ikentile.

Ga ke itse gore a batlotlegi ba re batho ba se ka ba rotloediwa go ikenta fa ba tla mo lefatsheng la Botswana mme ba papamale ka gore ba kile ba papamala ya re re bua ka jone bolwetse, ba re ba tlhapa diatla; ba etsa Pilato.

Ba tlhamalale fela gore ba tlhapa diatla, bone ga ba batle re laola ka fa bolwetse bo tsamayang ka teng mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Ke batla gore e tlhatswege.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

DR KWAPE: Ee rra.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Member for Selebi Phikwe East, tlhatswa rraetsho.

MR NKAWANA: Clarification.

Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson, le wena motlotlegi ke go leboge.

Ka fa o a bo o dirisa mafoko a, gongwe re sa go utlwe ka o bua Sengwaketse, ga ke gakologelwe motlotlegi ope a re go se ka ga rotloediwa batho go ikenta.

Kgang e re e buang ke gore se pateletseng.


Go rotloetsa le go pateletsa are two different things and ke sone se re se buang gore batho ba a patelediwa fa o tshwanetse go tsena mo Botswana.

Ga gona yo o rotloetsang, instead o a patelediwa.

That is our position.

O e tshware sentle foo motlotlegi.

DR KWAPE: A re e beye jaana motlotlegi ka gore wena e bile kana o a itsheka ka sector ya gago.
Ke ofe moeti yo o tlang mo lefatsheng la Botswana, yo o ka batlang gore a tle kwa lefatsheng le go dirwang diorata fela e re gotwe go ikentiwe, go bo sa ikentiwe?

Ke potso, ke ka e baya kwa go wena.

Se se dirwang ke gore… HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… DR KWAPE: …re batla go babalela tšhaba ya Botswana.

Ga ke itse gore a Motlotlegi Gobotswang o batla gore a re ene, a bue fela mo Palamenteng a re batho ba gane go kenta.
Ke kopa o bue fela gore a Batswana ba gane go kenta mme ba ntse ba bolelelwa bomosola jwa gore ba bo ba kentile.

Dikgang tse le di buang tse Honourable Gobotswang, ke tsone tse di tlisang ketsaetsego.

Wena o ikentile e bile o ikentetse mo sephiring o sa batle gore go itsiwe mme ka fa o bua gore batho ba se ka ba ikenta ba gane.

Bana ba gago botlhe …(Interruptions)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure.
DR KWAPE: …ba kentetswe mmokwane le sehuba sa monganganyego, jaanong bana ba batho ba bangwe bone wa re ba se ka ba kentelwa dilo tseo.

Le bolwetse jo… MR CHAIRPERSON: Procedure Honourable Minister.

Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Sefhare-Ramokgonami, what is your procedure?

DR GOBOTSWANG: Procedure.

My procedure ke gore mokaulengwe wa me kwa fields tse re tswang kwa go tsone, letsatsi leno ga ke itse gore o tsenwe ke eng.
O bua mafoko a a senang boammaaruri, a re re tswa go ikentela kwa sephiring, re sa batle batho ba itse.

Rona re ne ra itsenya le mo maranyaneng fa re kentiwa.

Le kwa Dikgotleng tsa rona re rotloetsa batho go kentiwa.

Kgang e a sa batleng go e tlhamalatsa ke gore mandatory vaccination wa COVID-19 ke yone issue, e seng… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go patelediwa, mo Tautona a rileng ga go patelediwe, a bua kwa mafatsheng.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… DR KWAPE: Tsamaiso ya go kenta mo Botswana e papametse… DR GOBOTSWANG: Ga ke itse gore o tsenwe ke eng gompieno… MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

You have made your point Honourable Member, let the Minister respond; ga re na nako.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re tloga re bua gore bangwe ba lona ba ne ba kopela bana ba bone ba ba under age gore ba kente ka sephiri.

Re a ba itse.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Ke tloga ke le omanya jaanong.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Bua comrade.


MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, order!

Order!

DR KWAPE: Tsamaiso ya go kenta mo Botswana e papametse, e dumalanwe.

Fela fa e le gore le ganana le tsamaiso ya lefatshe la lona, le tlhamalale gore le ganana le yone jaaka le bua dilo tse dingwe tse di leswafatsang lefatshe la lona.

Le tlhamalale, le se ka la iphitlha ka sepe.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Tlang re bue, mphe chance ke bue.
15 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) DR KWAPE: Nnyaa, ga ke go fe chance.

Ke araba… DR KWAPE: Nte ke tsenye e e neng e buiwa ke... MR CHAIRPERSON: Ga go buiwe fela o kare motho o kwa Matlapaneng Honourable Member.

Tswelela Honourable Minister.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.
DR KWAPE: Rre Kekgonegile o ne a bua ka go tlhopha ga rona kwa UN; ga se ga sephiri.

Ka puo ya Sekgoa go a tle gotwe ‘we sponsored’.

Go papametse mme le mo maranyaneng go supilwe gore Botswana o tlhophile jang, jaanong ga ke itse gore a re re ka bo re ne ra dira jang gore a itse sentle gore Botswana o tsere seemo sefe mo kgannyeng e e neng e tlisiwa kwa lekgotleng la mafatshefatshe.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga go tshwane le go ikenta ka sephiri.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ka re ka go reng?


Bolelela Batswana gore o tlhophile le Ukraine ka go reng?

DR KWAPE: Because we are members of the UN and a signatory to the… MR CHAIRPERSON: These points of order are too many now, nako e a re sia.

MR NKAWANA: On a point of order.

Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

Ke ne ke re Motlotlegi Dr Kwape a boele mafoko a ko morago ka gore o nyatsa the speakership fela le tsamaiso yotlhe.
You have called Mr Chairperson, gore ke lona le dirileng thulaganyo ya gore Mapalamente ba ye go kenta kae, and you never told us gore golo moo ke sephiri, and today we are told gore le ne le dira jalo le go bitsa sephiri.

Fa e le gore le ne le dira jalo e le sephiri, a e nne lona le kopang maitshwarelo mo go rona, or he must withdraw.
MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Member, I have made a ruling on that issue gore tlogelang go buisana jalo, yo o buang jalo, ke a mo koba gone jaanong jaana, o tlaa ja lunch kwa Mogoditshane.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Chairperson.

Procedure Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gatwe he must withdraw!

Procedure Honourable MR CHAIRPERSON: Ke e kgalemile Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Ngami, ke kgalemile monngame.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Kapinga.

MR KAPINGA: On a point of procedure.


Mr Chairperson, ke batla gore o kgalemele batho ba ba buang kgang e e senang boammaaruri ya gore go na le batho ba ba ikentetseng kwa sephiring.

Puo eo ga e a siama gotlhelele, Mr Chairperson, o tshwanetse gore o e kgalemele.

MR CHAIRPERSON: A ko le iketle bagaetsho.

Honourable Member for Okavango has got a point, I could not agree with him more.

Tlogelang go buisana dipuo tse di ntseng jalo, le Batlotlegi.

Ke dumalana le Motlotlegi Kapinga, tlogelang go bua jalo.
Tswelela Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona, o digele tiro ya gago.

DR KWAPE: Ee, se ke se lebogang ke gore ga go na ope yo o ...(Interruptions)... HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

Le dia Tona.

Order!

Le dia Motlotlegi Rraetsho go wetsa.

Wetsa Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona, ke kgalemile, fa ke ka utlwa mongwe, ke a mo koba.

Digela Tona.

16 HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

Order, a ko le tlogele Tona a fetse, fetsa Motlotlegi rraetsho Tona.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: O Mogoditshane.

rumola ba DR KWAPE: Ke ne ke re, se ke ka se tlhomamisang ka gore... MR CHAIRPERSON: Akere go na le hotel e e itseng go apaya gone kwa.

DR KWAPE: Se ke ka se tlhomamisang ke gore, e ne e le tshwetso ya gore mongwe le mongwe a ye go kenta, mme bangwe ba ne ba loba gore ba ne ba ya go kenta leng, ka gore go ne go tserwe tshwetso nngwe golo gongwe gore ba se ka ba ya go kenta.

Ke tsena mo go ya ga Honourable Dr Matsheka e a neng a bua ka project implementation.
Fa re lebelela project ya kwa... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr Chairperson.

Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1500 – MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR CHAIRPERSON: Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Ngami, go rileng monngame, what is your point of order?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Murmurs)... MR CHAIRPERSON: Give him a chance Honourable Member.

MR HIKUAMA: On a point of order.


Point of order e ke batlang e gagamala, e bile go itsege lefatshe ka bophara ke gore Tona wa tsa mafatshe a sele, e bile yo re mo tlotlang e le ngaka, a tlogele go sa bua boammaaruri, e bile mafoko a a buileng a a boele morago ka gore ga a na boammaaruri.

A re I withdraw, ga go na ope yo o tswang go ikenta ka sephiri.

Ga go na tshwetso epe e e kileng ya tsewa ke ope gore go ikentiwe ka sephiri.
A a boele mafoko ao morago, go utlwale gore o a boetse morago, e bile he is not telling the truth.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Let us have order please.

Nnyaa bagaetsho, we must be progressive not retrogressive.

Ke kgalemile Motlotlegi Rraetsho Hikuama, ke kgalemile mafoko a. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ra re a a boele morago.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Fa ke kgalemile, ga go tlhokafale gore a boele kwa go one, a kgalemilwe ke setilo.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O a boelela.


MR CHAIRPERSON: Nnyaa, ke mo reeditse thata, fa a ka boelela, ke a mo leleka a ise a fetse.

Mo tlogele.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ra re a a boele morago.

MR CHAIRPERSON: I have ruled on that matter Honourable Member for Ngami, please.

Please finish up Honourable Minister.

DR KWAPE: Ee rra, ke ne ke batla go fetsa ka ntlha e e neng e buiwa ke Honourable Dr Matsheka ya implementation, ke project ya rona ya kwa Avis.
Re ne ra nna le dikgwetlho tsa melao ya lefatshe le re neng re aga kwa go lone, fa gongwe re dumalana se e re kamoso ...(Interruptions)… ra ba ra nna le dikgwetlho tsa gore dilo tse dingwe tse go neng go agiwa ka tsone, di ne di rekwa kwa mafatsheng a a tswang kwa ntle, ke tsone tse di dirileng gore project e nne e salele kwa morago.

Project e ke nngwe ya tse e leng gore di ne di tsaya madi a mantsi.
Tumelo le tsholofelo ya rona ke gore ka gore dilo tseo gatwe di setse di gorogile, project e e tlaa kgona gore mo nakong e e sa fediseng pelo, e bo e setse e wetse ka gore maloba ke ne ke le kwa go yone, ke e bone gore e tsweletse sentle, e setse fela ka go rulelwa le go tsenngwa difensetere and polished jaaka go a tle go buiwe gotwe go dirwa finishing.
Mr Chairperson, fa o ntetla, ke batla gore ke re, I move that the sum Five Hundred and Seventy-Five Million, Three Hundred and Thirty-One Thousand, Five Hundred and Ten Pula (P575,331,510) for the Recurrent Budget be approved and stand part of the 2022/2023 Appropriation Bill (No.

2 of 2022) for Organisation 1500; and that the sum of Seventy Million, Seven Hundred Thousand Pula (P70,700,000) for the Development Budget be approved and stand part of the same Schedule for the 2022/2023 Appropriation Bill.
I so move.

Question put and agreed to.

ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERS MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, please note that two hours has been allocated to this Organisation, and I shall call upon the Honourable Minister to reply to the debate at 1550 hours today and the question will be put at 1620 today.

Honourable Minister of Defence, Justice and Security, please present your Bill.

MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Chairperson.
Mr Chairperson, I wish to present to this Honourable House, for ‘Organisation 1300 - Attorney General’s Chambers.’ the 2022/2023 Budget Estimates The mandate of the Attorney General’s Chambers is to provide quality legal service to the Government.

This is done through five functional areas, the Directorate (DPP), Civil Litigation of Public Prosecutions Division (CLD), Legislative Drafting Division (LDD), International and Commercial Division (ICD) and Corporate Service Division (CSD).
Mr Chairperson, during the 2021 Meetings of Parliament, 28 bills were tabled in Parliament and enacted into Law.

17 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply Mr Chairperson, the Lexis Nexis (Pty) Ltd, a company based in Durban, South Africa, has been awarded a contract for updating the laws of Botswana from 2019 to 2021.

The Law Revision Order 1 of 2019, which includes Laws up to 31st December 2018, was published on the 12th March, 2021.
We are currently working on a new contract with a publisher to up-date for 2019 to 2021.

Mr Chairperson, as reported last year, the AGC has established a Law Reform Unit within the Legislative Drafting Division of the Chambers.

The technical advice on law reform is funded through the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP).

Efforts to procure an expert in the past year did not bear fruit.

The search for appropriate expertise will continue.
Mr Chairperson, the International and Commercial Division (ICD) is tasked with provision of legal services to various Government Ministries and Departments.

These services primarily include the negotiation as well as drafting of commercial and international agreements as well as provision of legal advice on different areas of the law.

In addition, the ICD provides legal support to Ministries carrying out critical projects and initiatives which are aimed at attainment of national priorities.
The role of the Attorney General’s Chambers in this regard cannot be overemphasized, particularly in view of the Reset Agenda and the expectation that the economy will spring back to life.

the AGC secondment Mr Chairperson, initiative continues to be implemented through the placement of legal officers at all Government Ministries and some Departments for provision of on the spot legal advice.

By all means, this initiative is a great success since legal advice is rendered as and when needed.
Mr Chairperson, following the opening of a branch of the High Court in Maun, the Civil Litigation Division also opened a satellite office in Maun in order to keep abreast with developments in the Judiciary.

The office is intended to deal with cases registered at the Maun High Court.

In due course, additional manpower will be required to augment the existing number of lawyers in Maun.
Mr Chairperson, the Directorate of Public Prosecutions (DPP) exists to prosecute all cases emanating from law enforcement agencies as well as to prosecute appeals from all levels of Courts (Magistrate Court, Customary Court of Appeal and the High Court).
The DPP finds itself in dire need of resources in an effort to respond to new forms of crime and new laws such as the cyber and computer-related offences, drugs and psychotropic offences, counter-terrorism offences as well as emerging transnational crimes such as trafficking in persons, wildlife and drugs.

Mr Chairperson, the Directorate has consistently maintained an 80 percent success rate in matters completed at court.
As at the end of November 2021, the success rate stood at 85 per cent against a target of 90 per cent, whilst the average performance in respect of turnaround time for conclusion of cases at court has seen a significant improvement from 16 months in 2019, to 12 months in 2021 against a target of 18 months for criminal cases.

Mr Chairperson, the DPP statistics show that there is a slight increase of total cases handled from the previous year.
As at November 2021, there were a total of nine thousand one hundred and fifty-eight (9 158) files (that is cases and dockets) in comparison to eight thousand four hundred and seventy-one (8 471) (that is cases and dockets) as at December 2020.

For effectiveness, it is the DPP’s desire to have a manageable and optimum ratio of cases/dockets per prosecutor.
Mr Chairperson, out of the nine thousand one hundred and fifty-eight (9 158) files, six thousand three hundred and twenty-nine (6 329) are cases pending before various courts while two thousand six hundred and twenty-four (2 624) are dockets received from law enforcement agencies that are being assessed for suitability of prosecution or otherwise and two hundred and five (205) files are Mutual Legal Assistance and Extradition requests.
Mr Chairperson, as reported in the previous address, concerted efforts are being made to fully relief the Botswana Police Service of delegated prosecutorial duties.

Thus far, prosecution of cases from a total of 34 Police Stations have been taken over against 83 Botswana Police Stations.

This achievement comes at the backdrop of acute shortage of resources as no extra resources have been availed to the DPP to augment the already stretched resources, both human and financial.
Arrangements are at an advanced stage to open satellite offices in Kasane, Shakawe and Tsabong to curtail expenses as well as frequent long distance trips to these areas as they are currently serviced by Francistown, Maun and Lobatse DPP offices respectively.
18 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply Mr Chairperson, due to shortage of resources, the take- over of prosecutorial duties from the Police Service will take longer and is expected to be completed during the 2024/2025 financial year rather than 2023 as previously anticipated.
Mr Chairperson, the vastness of the geographical areas covered by the DPP regional offices coupled with the acute shortage of accommodation in towns and villages continues to be of great challenge and a hurdle for expansion and decentralisation of the DPP.

This has greatly inconvenienced and suffocated the DPP’s spirited ambitions to expand and increase its footprints across the length and breadth of the country.
The DPP has since early 2000 struggled to secure conducive and user friendly office accommodation in places like Maun, Palapye and Lobatse where it has operated on rental basis since its establishment.
Mr Chairperson, in recent times, some notable success has been realised in this regard, with the construction of Maun DPP office moving satisfactorily at 40 percent completion as at January 2022, while the Lobatse DPP office has secured a more spacious and conducive office accommodation in the office block previously occupied by Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority.

The Maun DPP construction office is expected to be completed and ready for occupation by September this year.
All these developments, should go a long way in assisting the Directorate to effectively deliver on its mandate.

Mr Chairperson, let me now take this opportunity to present to this Honourable House the 2022/2023 Proposed Budget of the Attorney General’s Chambers.
RECURRENT BUDGET I request a total amount of Two Hundred and Sixty- One Million, Four Hundred and Ninety-One Thousand, Seven Hundred and Seventy Pula (P261,491,770.00) for the Attorney General’s Chambers Recurrent Budget for the 2022/2023 financial year.

From this proposal, the Personal Emoluments account constitutes 73 per cent of the total Recurrent Budget and the remaining balance goes to Add Back and Other Charges accounts.
This Budget proposal represents an increase of Eleven Million, Three Hundred and Sixty-One Thousand, Nine Hundred and Forty Pula (P11,361,940.00) which is a 5 per cent increase above the 2021/2022 budget of Two Hundred and Fifty Million, One Hundred Twenty-Nine Thousand, Eight Hundred and Thirty Pula (P250,129,830.00).

Mr Chairperson, in the interest of time, I will deal only with those accounts that have experienced either a significant increase or decrease.
PARENT ACCOUNT – 00100 Salaries and Allowances An amount of One Hundred and Ninety Million, Seven Hundred and Eighty-One Thousand, Three Hundred and Twenty Pula (P190,781,320) has been allocated to this Parent Account against the warranted provision of One Hundred and Eighty Million, Five Hundred and Eighty-Six Thousand and Forty Pula (P180,586,040) in the financial year 2021/2022.
There has been a significant increase of Ten Million, One Hundred and Ninety-Five Thousand, Two Hundred and Eighty Pula (P10,195,280.00), which is 5 per cent over the warranted provision of 2021/2022.

This increase covers for the yearly incremental creep.
PARENT ACCOUNT – 00200 Travelling and Transport (Internal) An amount of Eight Million, Seven Hundred and Fifty-Four Thousand, Six Hundred and Thirty Pula (P8,754,630.00) has been allocated to this Parent Account against the warranted provision of Six Million, Six Hundred and Fifty Thousand and Twenty Pula (P6,650,020.00) in the financial year 2021/2022.
There has been an increase of Two Million, One Hundred and Four Thousand, Six Hundred and Ten Pula (P2,104,610.00) under this Parent Account which is 31 per cent increase.

The absence of the Directorate of Public Prosecutions (DPP) footprint in areas where the Administration of Justice (AOJ) is based contributes to the increase in internal travel accounts.
PARENT ACCOUNT – 00300 Travelling and Transport (External) An amount of Two Million, Sixty-Four Thousand, Seven Hundred and Thirty Pula (P2,064,730.00) has been allocated to this Parent Account reflecting an increase of One Hundred and Forty-Three Thousand, One Hundred and Sixty Pula (P143,160.00) which is 7 per cent higher than the warranted provision for 2021/2022 of One Million, Nine Hundred and Twenty-One Thousand, Five Hundred and Seventy Pula (P1,921,570.00).
The increase is attributable to the anticipation of the re- opening of national borders, hence the resumption of official external trips by officers.

19 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply MR CHAIRPERSON: Go to the summary.

MR MMUSI: Mr Chairperson, that concludes my budget proposal for the 2022/2023 Recurrent Budget, and I will now proceed to the Development Budget.
DEVELOPMENT BUDGET Mr Chairperson, during 2021/22 financial year, AGC was allocated Twenty-Two Million, Five Hundred Thousand Pula (P22,500,000.00).

I am pleased to inform this Honourable House that, as at 31st January, 2022 AGC had spent 94.9 per cent of the Development Budget.
Mr Chairperson, for the 2022/2023 financial year, I request the sum of Thirty-Nine Million, Nine Hundred and Fifty-Two Thousand Nine Hundred and Twenty- Six Pula (P39, 952, 926.00) for the Attorney General’s Chambers Development Budget.
This amount has been allocated as follows: AGC Infrastructure Mr Chairperson, due to the early setbacks incurred as a result of the emergence of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Maun project which entails construction of Directorate of Public Prosecutions (DPP) Office Block and related staff houses commenced on the 26th March, 2021.
Development of AGC Services Mr Chairperson, takeover of Prosecutorial duties from the Botswana Police Service Strategy was developed in the 2020/21 financial year, but it has proven difficult to comprehensively implement the project without dedicated resources.

Mr Chairperson, this concludes my budget proposal for Organisation 1300-Attorney General’s Chambers.
I therefore request that the sum of Two Hundred and Sixty- One Million, Four Hundred and Ninety-One Thousand, Seven Hundred and Seventy Pula (P261,491,770.00) under the Recurrent Budget, and the sum of Thirty-Nine Million, Nine Hundred and Fifty-Two Thousand, Nine Hundred and Twenty-Six Pula (P39,952,926.00) under the Development Budget be approved and stand as part of the Estimates for the financial year 2022/2023.

I thank you Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Minister, tanki Tshwene.
The matter is open for debate, Honourable Member for Mahalapye East, Honourable Boko please break the ice.

MR BOKO (MAHALAPYE EAST): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke dumedise Batlotlegi Mapalamente le Batswana botlhe ba ba reeditseng kana ba lebeletse television ya Botswana gongwe le gongwe kwa ba ka tswang ba le teng Mr Chairperson.

Le wena Mr Chairperson ke go ikokobeletse jaaka gale mo tshokologong ya letsatsi la gompieno.
Mr Chairperson, ga ke batle go nna moleele mo dikgannyeng tsa kwa Attorney General responding to se Honourable Mmusi a se buileng.

Matshwenyego a me ke gore go setse go fetile dingwaga di ka nna 20 go builwe ka kgang ya gore the DPP will now take over from the police in terms of dikgang tsa prosecution.

Go sale go tlilwe go tlaa diragala Mr Chairperson, mme le mo motlheng wa gompieno re santse re bona mapodise ba dira tiro ya prosecution kwa makgotlatshekelong.
Ga ke batle go ba nyatsa Mr Chairperson, mme fela boammaaruri jo bo sa jelweng pheko ke gore mapodise ga ba a hirelwa tiro ya to prosecute.

Mapodise ba na le tiro e e special e ba e dirang, and there are people who have been trained to do the prosecution, who have been given the necessary skills.

Nako e gorogile Mr Chairperson ya gore, jaanong a re tseyeng cases tse re di ntsheng kwa police di felele mo matsogong a ba DPP.
Go setse go tsamaile lebaka le le leele, dingwaga di ka feta masome a mabedi, re ntse re opela pina e le nngwefela mme go sena sepe se se diragalang.

Fa e le gore bothata ke kgang ya manpower, nako e gorogile gore gongwe DPP e ka iphirela.

There are lot of people ba ba sa berekeng, mme ba na le the necessary qualifications tsa molao go ka dira dikgang tsa prosecution.

E le ya ntlha Mr Chairperson.


Ya bobedi Mr Chairperson, e nna selelo sa gore ga ke itse gore ba DPP ba dira go le kae, mme go lebega ba sa dire go lekane mo dikgannyeng tsa kgokgontsho ya bomme le bana mo malwapeng tse di tshololwang kwa makgotlatshekelong.
Letsatsi le letsatsi we see these things, mme o kare DPP ga e dire go lekane go ka nonotsha kana go ka nna dingalo mo go reng fa motho a re o batla go tsholola kgetsi, fa gongwe e le mme a re o batla go e tsholola, rre a ne a mo remile ka selepe kana a ne a mo supile ka thipa, go nna motlhofo fela gore dikgang tse di ka tshololwa.

So we need to tighten that Honourable Mmusi, e le some of the concerns fela from the Office of the Attorney General in general.

Similar issues arise kwa murder cases.


In our country a murder case can take five to seven years, while the person is roaming the street a emetse go ka seka kana a emetse judgment segolo jang a emetse go ka seka, ka gore ba a bo ba santse ba kgobokanya bosupi.

Every 20 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply time re ya court re ela to mention fela.
Gongwe Tona, dikgang tse ba lephata la gago la kwa Attorney General ba e lebelele, gore ba ka thusa jang go fefosa le go thusa makgotlatshekelo gore dikgang tsa murder cases di dirwe mo nakong e khutshwane.

Se sengwe Mr Chairperson, wena Motlotlegi Mmusi e bile ke dumela gore ke sengwe se o ka tswang o itse ka sone.

I am not even sure gore a mme go boammaaruri, but I am told that you have been trained as a lawyer.
Dikgang tse tsa gore fa motho a filwe bail by the Magistrate a ntse a itshwara sentle (complying) throughout, I know this can come fela e le a Bill kana e le go baakanya molao gore, fa o filwe bail by the Magistrate in murder cases, ga go nne sentle gore fa case e tsewa gotwe e isiwa kwa High Court for trial, go bo go simololwa gape gotwe you should apply for bail, golo ga teng does not make sense.
Fa e le gore o ne o filwe and you have been complying, what is the use of that person engaging an attorney a bo a ya go kopa bail gape kwa High Court.

Kwa mafatsheng a mangwe ga go direge jalo, in our neighbouring South Africa ga go dirwe ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Gongwe re ka e tlisa fela e le Molao-kakanyetso mo nakong e khutshwanyane, ka gore diagente ka bontsi le society ba tshwenyegile ka kgang ya gore this person has been complying with the bail conditions, now when the matter is elevated to the High Court, e tswa mo Magistrate Court gatwe go batliwa gore o dire bail gape.

Gone moo o kare ga go nne sentle.


Se sengwe ke kgang ya gore, gantsi bana ba gago kwa Attorney General kana kwa DPP, ga ba tle court ka mabaka a gore fa gongwe go bo gotwe koloi e ne e sena fuel kana go ne go sena transport at all, and the matter gets postponed all the time.

You see this, golo ga teng go nna boatla, ga go nne… MR CHAIRPERSON: Order!

Order!

Sorry Honourable Boko.

I am trying to make you go away from being voracious on your time.
Otherwise you will soon be paradoxical towards what you shall be expecting on your lunch time.

Honourable Members, we are going to suspend our business here for this afternoon, so that you can go for some refreshments.

Bon appétit Honourable Members!
PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 1:00 P.M. FOR APPROXIMATELY 1 HOUR PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 2:00 P.M. “EXCHANGE OF SPEAKERSHIP” LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME THEME: TRANSFORMATION OF IPELEGENG INTO A LABOUR INTENSIVE WORK PROGRAMME Asked the Honourable Leader of the House to state: (i) how far Government is with the transformation process of the Ipelegeng Programme; and (ii) when the transformation can be expected including the causes of the delay given the promises made in the 2019 State of the Nation Address by His Excellency the President and the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development during Committee of Supply Speech in which he promised that the programme will be transformed into a more valuable one that will create sustainable jobs and contribute to infrastructural development in the country.
MR K. C. HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Ke a leboga Honourable Speaker.

Honourable Speaker, e rile fa re tsena mo ipapatsong ya 2019, parties ka go farologana tsa baya Batswana pele maitlamo a bone.

Party e ke neng ke e emetse ya UDC ya supa fa e na le kgatlhego ya go bona lenaneo la Ipelegeng le tlhabololwa ka tsela e e ka sologelang Batswana molemo.
Fa re tsena mo Palamenteng ka 2019 ya ntlha, Tautona Dr Eric Keabetswe Mokgweetsi Masisi, mo puong ya gagwe a supa fa le bone ba setse ba dumalana le se re neng re se bua gore lenaneo le, le tshwanetse go tokafatswa gore le sologele Batswana molemo le go sireletsa itsholelo ya lefatshe la Botswana.

Madi a a dirisiwang mo Ipelegeng fa o ka a lebelela, fa o ka tsaya for example; a a dirisitsweng a a nankotsweng fa, a P441, 825, 071 mo pegong ya motshwara madi, a mantsi.
Re ka tshela madi a a kanakana fa itsholelo ya lefatshe la rona e dira sentle, re na le madi.

Fa a sena motlhala o o ka o supang morago ga dingwaga tse 10, gore a re ne ra kgona go dira se re se bonang, e bile re ntshitse dialogane ke tse di a bonala, di productive in our economy, re tlaabo re sa itirela bomolemo.

Se se siameng ke gore, fa re setse re na le madi a a kanakana re a dirisa, re supe gore re dirile eng ka one.
Ke sone se re neng re bua gore this Ipelegeng Programme should be transformed into a labour intensive public works programme.

Ke dumela gore le ba party e e busang ba setse ba dumalana le yone, e bile ba a e atla.
21 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME Potso ke gore, fa re sena go itlama mo go kanakana dingwaga di tsamaile di ka nna tharo re ntse re tsere Puso, e bile re dumetse gore ke mogopolo o o ka dirwang, se se padisang gore go simolodisiwe go dirwe re tle re akole dilo, ke eng?

Ke yone potso e ke batlang gore Mothusa Tautona, ka ke ene mookamedi wa dithulaganyo tsotlhe tsa Puso le mananeo a Puso, a e arabe.
A tle a tlhalosetse setšhaba gore bothata ke eng go sa dirwe mme ba setse ba atlile moono?

Ke dumela gore kgang e, e ka re thusa thata ka gore go na le dikago tse di tlhokang go baakanngwa mo magaeng, they are collapsing.

Go na le dilo tse di tlhokang go dirwa tse dintsi tse re nang le tshono ya madi a a kanakana a Ipelegeng.

Fa e ka dirwa lenaneo le le botoka le le agang, le dira ditiro, re ka sireletsa itsholelo ya Botswana, e bile re ka e godisa.
Ka bokhutshwane Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, a re tseye motlhala gore mathata ke eng?

Se se paledisang ke eng?

Batswana ba solofele gore go tlaa simolola go dirwa leng?

Stages tsa gore go dirwa eng, re emetse tse, go paledisa se, ke eng?

Ka mafoko a kalo, Mothusa Tautona a re tlhalosetse re le Mapalamente le setšhaba ka gore le sone se reeditse.

Ke a leboga.

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Ke go leboge Mr Speaker.

Ke go dumedise.
Ke go dumedise.

Ke leboge Mopalamente go bo a tlile ka potso e e maleba e. Ke simolole fela ka paakanyo pele ga ke tsena mo go mo arabeng, a supa 2019.

Ke re nnyaa, mafoko ao a ne a buiwa mo State of the Nation Address (SONA) ka 2020 ke Tautona Dr Mokgweetsi Eric Masisi.

Gape ke bo ke lemoge gore motlotlegi jaanong kgatlhanong le tse di neng di buega pele tsa gore Ipelegeng e emisitswe, o a dumela gore ga e ise e emisiwe, e teng e tsweletse, e bile le Tona wa pele Rre Molale o kile a araba.
Fa o lebile ditso tsa Ipelegeng, o tlaa bona golo mo motlotlegi a go buang, e le dilo tse di kileng tsa direga pele mo nakong e madi a neng a santse a le teng.

Ipelegeng e aga dikago, le mo dikgaolong tse dingwe re ka di supa tse di agilweng ke Ipelegeng tse di santseng di le teng.

Go ne ga nna le komelelo le letlhoko la madi go fitlhelela re tla mo sebakeng sa gore ga e kgone go dira ditiro tseo tsa dikago.
Mma ke tle mo go arabeng potso ka Sejatlhapi jaaka e boditswe, e tlaare kwa bofelong ke e soboke go se kae.

Mr Speaker, the theme which is the ‘Transformation of Ipelegeng into a Labour Intensive Work Programme,’ a question asked by the Member of Parliament (MP), let me go straight to the answers.

I wish to start by highlighting some the chronology of events surrounding the transformation important facts regarding 22 of Ipelegeng Programme in the build-up to the 2019 General Elections.
Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) in its manifesto, made a promise that the labour intensive public works (Ipelegeng) will be improved to construct long term beneficial projects.
Upon assuming the mandate to rule, the BDP Government through the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development started the process which involved among others, the consideration and review of previous documentation on the performance of the programmes and strategic recommendations that will facilitate and ease to transformation process.

In October 2020, Government through Cabinet suctioned the review of Ipelegeng Programme and directed that the programme be reengineered subsequently.
His Excellency the President made a pronouncement in his statement of the Nation Address of November 2020, you will all recall that amid Government decision to reengineer the Ipelegeng Programme in 2020, this was the same year in which COVID-19 pandemic started and Government had to ensure amongst others, compliance with the health and safety protocols within the Ipelegeng Programme.
This resulted in the temporary suspension of some aspects of the programme especially the labour based projects for at least five months.

I wish to remind this Honourable House Mr Speaker, that during the same time, some Members of this House, even reported that Government has cancelled the programme, an allegation that the then Minister of Local Government and Rural Development refuted through a statement in this same House in August 2020.
That notwithstanding Mr Speaker, during the 2021 financial year, the focus of the programme changed to include more maintenance and construction of projects.

The advent of COVID-19 also brought new initiatives such as cleaning of toilets at schools and other public institutions to help in the fight against the spread of Coronavirus.
Mr Speaker, some of the key elements of the transformed Ipelegeng Programme as articulated by His Excellency the President during his SONA of 2021 are productivities and sustainability which we will achieve through focus on construction and maintenance of public facilities.

We also aim to empower beneficiaries through capacity building, skills development that will help them to earn a living post Ipelegeng.
I must hasten Mr Speaker, to underscore that as the success of Government, we are aware forging this transformation process depends on that Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME complementarity between the Ipelegeng programme and other development programmes.

This is achieved by leveraging on the already committed resources by ensuring that those linkages are fully exposed and utilised.
I wish to indicate, Mr Speaker, that this is a multi- stakeholder process and that various stakeholders are engaged in undertaking some of the activities that need to receive full implementation of the transformed programme.

We have developed a concept that will assist us in forging complementarities between the programmes, skill development and addressing productivity, work ethics and mind-set change issues.

Remember the Reset Agenda Mr Speaker.


facilitating capacity building, The piloting of the concept is in South East District, piloting, underline that.

We have started.

We are piloting the concept in South East District.

That has been said even in the speech by the Minister as he presented his budget on Local Government not so long ago.

Mr Speaker, we are committed to roll out this concept to other districts in the 2022-2023 financial year.
The provision of labour during construction of houses for extension workers will invariably pass the necessary skills to the participants formally or informally.

The ongoing fencing of cluster ploughing fields is executed in such a way that there are skills transfer, those skilled passing practical skills to the learners.

As Honourable Members will be aware Mr Speaker, the proposed 2022-2023 budget for Ipelegeng is P528 million, reflecting a P100 million increment from the current financial year.
This is to further support the re- engineered vocational approach that Ipelegeng will take, and I thank you Honourable Members for approving the proposed budget.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I wish to emphasise that the envisaged transformation should not be imagined as a theoretical exercise but an opportunity whenever possible for skills transfer.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke leboga jalo ke supa gore re tsweletse ka leoto la go fetola Ipelegeng gore e sologele ba ba berekang mo go yone molemo.
Re setse re supile gore re simolotse ka district e nngwe mme re tlaabo re tswelela re ya kwa districts tse dingwe.

Ke supe gore tiro e e ne ya diiwa ke lebaka la COVID-19 fa re ne re tshwanetse go e simolola ka 2020.
Ke bo ke supe jalo botlhokwa jwa gore go bo go ka nna le projects tseo tse ba ba nang le dikitso ba tlaabo ba di dira, ba fetisetsa dikitso tseo mo bathong ba bangwe, babereki ba Ipelegeng gore e re mo nakong e e tlang le bone ba kgone go nna le dikitso gongwe tsa go aga, e tle e nne gore e nna bontlha bongwe jwa go godisa bodiredi mo Ipelegeng le mo go direng ditiro tse dingwe kwa ba ka di dirang tsa itshetso ka gore ba tlaabo ba setse jaanong ba neetswe dikitso tsa go nna jalo.
Ke supile jaana gore mo malobeng jalo bangwe ba ne ba ipelaetsa go na le dikgang pele ga ditlhopho tsa gore Ipelegeng e emisitswe, e se boammaaruri Mr Speaker.

Ipelegeng e tsweletse, e tlaa nna e tlhabololwa ka fa e ntseng e tlhabololwa jaaka ke supa gore re setse re simolotse.

Ke tsaya gore motlotlegi o tlaa e kgotsofalela karabo eo.

Ke tsaya gore le bone ba Ipelegeng tota ba tlaa tlhaloganya se re se buang se.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Thank you Vice President (VP).
MR RAMOGAPI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke botse His Honour gore tota kgang e ya Ipelegeng jaaka ba ne ba rile ba tlaa e tlhabolola, a ga e mo tshwenye gore tota fa babereki ba direlang teng ba a bo ba sena ntlwana ya boitiketso?

Ga go na le fa e le ntlwana ya boitiketso le fa ba jelang teng.
Ke gore a mme golo mo le ka fa re buang ka teng mo Vision 2036 gore re tshwanetse re bo re na le tikologo e e rileng, tota fela bone mme ba re batho ba Ipelegeng ba ye kae ka gore tlholego yone fa e bitsa e a bitsa gongwe le gongwe fa o leng teng?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR TSOGWANE: Kgang e ya ga Rre Ramogapi e ka tswa e na le boammaaruri, mme o a tlhaloganya le ene gore ga se gore batho ba Ipelegeng kana ba tlaabo ba berekela mo lefelong le le lengwefela.
Gape fa e le gore go tlaabo go berekwa dilo tse di tshwanang le go šhafatsa matlo jalo, ba berekela mo magaeng, mo metseng le mo dikoleng mo e leng gore go kopa ntlwana ya boitiketso ga e ka ke ya nna kgwetlho.

Jaanong kana fa e le gore go tlaa nna le fa e leng gore ba nna teng fela, ga ke itse gore ba tlaabo ba nna teng fela ba tlhola fela foo ba sa ye ditirong tse di farologaneng kwa mafelong a a farologaneng.
A jaanong go tlaa nna le mantlwana a boitiketso gongwe le gongwe kwa ba tlaabong ba tsamaela teng, a agilwe ka tsela e e ntseng jang?

Ke tle ke mo leboge fela ke re ba ba berekelang mo mafelong ao ba tshwanetse gore go bo go ka nna le gone gore ba thusiwe jaaka mongwe fa a berekela golo a sa fudugela koo, fa tlholego e bitsa o kopa thuso segautshwane.
Re na le dikole, clinics le mafelo a a 23 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME farologaneng a Puso a ba ka kopang thuso fa tlholego e bitsa.

Go tshwana fela le gore fa e ne e le gore ba ne ba diretswe mantlwana a boitiketso, fa e le gore ba na le diofisi kana ba tlaabo ba dule kwa diofising tseo ba ile kwa ba direlang teng.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR HIKUAMA: Ke a leboga Honourable Speaker.

Ke leboge Mothusa Tautona mo karabong ya gagwe.


Jaanong ke latedise dipotso tsa me ka go riana; ke utlwile a bua gore they are piloting with another region or district, potso ya me ke gore to pilot kana go tewa go lekeletsa.

Re lekeletsa lenaneo ka kgaolo nngwe.

Lenaneo la Ipelegeng ga le bolo go lekeletswa le dirisiwa mo methaleng e e sa tshwaneng, re setse re ithutile.

Purpose e tona ya to pilot ke go ithuta, go lemoga se le ka se tokafatsang before you roll out the full programme.
Jaanong kana lenaneo la Ipelegeng le le gologolo thata mo lefatsheng la Botswana, a mme le raya gore Puso le Batswana, re setse re ise re tlhaloganye gore se re se tlhokang ke eng, go tlhokega eng gore re tswelele sentle?

Ga ke dumele gore there is a need for piloting because the way we have been rolling out this programme, it was enough to educate us on our needs and how we can improve it.

Ga ke itse gore jaanong ba santse ba ithuta eng ka gore programme e has been running for many years?

That is one.
That is one.

Ke utlwile gape a bua ka gore they are embracing mind- set change.

Go na le mind-set shift what-what mo Reset Aganda.

Kana Reset Agenda le mind-set change, ga go tewe e le tag phrases, go tewa e le selo se se diragalang mo bathong gore re batla go fetoga mme go supa gore they are in the process of mind-set change.

What are the tangible things that they are doing to change the way they have been doing things?
Se se ka supang gore re mo leotong la go fetola maikutlo le ka fa re dirang dilo ka teng, ke eng se se ka bonalang gore we have started?

That is why we are doing this; we have changed from this, now we are doing this.

What is the practical evidence that you can show?

Ke a leboga.

MR TSOGWANE: Honourable Members, a re se botsane dipotso tsa bana ba bannye ba le kwa mmantlwaneng.

The word “pilot” does not necessarily mean that… MR HIKUAMA: Procedure Mr Speaker.
Ke kopa Mothusa Tautona a simolole fela go tlotla se ke se botsang.

Fa a simolola go nthaya bo ‘dipotso tse dinnyennyane tsa kwa mmantlwaneng,’ re tloga re fetolana ka tsela e e sa siamang.

Jaanong a a arabe fela ka fa ke boditseng dipotso ka teng e bile a supe tlotlo e ke mo tlotlang ka yone gompieno.

MR TSOGWANE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

O a botsa, e bile o a ikaraba, e bile he is lecturing to me.
So ga ke itse gore jaanong fa motho a go botsa potso a bo a simolola a go tlotlela, a go bolelela tsotlhe le ka fa dilo di tshwanetseng gore di nne ka teng, di dirwe ka teng, a o a bo a le mo maikaelelong a go botsa potso?

Selo sa ntlha you pick lefoko “piloting,” lefoko piloting does not necessarily mean o a lekeletsa, you start somewhere.

Fa o na le madi o simolola golo gongwe, go bona gore tiro eo e ka simololwa kae.
Mme fa o e simolola jaana, o a bo o ntse o e lebeletse gore e tsamaya jang, o e ithuta mo go yone, ka gore you are re-engineering.

So when you re-engineer, you have to learn in the process gore dilo tse dingwe di tsamaya jang.

Ke ene a ntseng a re o batla gore Ipelegeng e tlhabololwe, jaanong o bua gore nnyaa, re itse Ipelegeng, re sale re tswa kgakala le yone.

Go raya gore ga a bue tlhabololo ya Ipelegeng.

Ke sone se ke reng re se ka ra botsana dipotso tse di tlaa felelang di re timetsa.
Do not pick the English word piloting o bo o ganelela fela mo go yone, o bo o re jaanong re a ithuta, re a reng.

Rraetsho re a simolola somewhere, ga re ka ke ra dira dikgaolo tsotlhe, money will not allow.

Re bua ka projects, re bua ka construction, maintenance, mme ga e ka ke ya simologa lefatshe lotlhe.

When re-engineering Ipelegeng, we must start somewhere, ke sone se o bonang re dirisitse lefoko le gore re ya go simolola from that district.
You can remove the word piloting, it would not change the taste of the salt.

We will continue to rollout the programme kwa re tlaabong re e simolotse teng.

Jaanong mo gongwe mo a neng a go botsa mo, o ne a setse a re bolelela, lecturing to us ka fa a tlhaloganyang dilo ka teng, ke ka fa ene a di tlhaloganyang ka teng, a re tseye fela jalo.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Hikuama.

MR HIKUAMA: It is fine Mr Speaker, it is okay.

MR TSHERE: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


Ke batla go botsa, ke a utlwa gore Mothusa Tautona a re re dire Ipelegeng into an intensive public programme, e go rayang gore batho ba tlaabo ba bereka tiro e e bokete go na le e ba e ba e berekang gompieno.

Jaanong ke batla go itse gore fa ba ntse ba e leka kwa dikgaolong tse dingwe, a ba lebeletse tlhwatlhwa, madi a a duelwang, gore a oketsege le one, a lepalepane le seemo sa tiro e e tlaabong e tla e e bokete, jaaka a bua, e le sa ntlha?
Sa bobedi, a le tsone dikgang tsa bo compensation, kana o ka golafala mo tirong jalojalo, se sengwe ke gore, kana re kile ra e leka kwa Mahalapye nako e re neng re 24 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME simolola, ka gore re ne re filwe madi a a kwa tlase go dira bus rank.

Re ne ra e emisa mo tseleng ka gore go ne go le bonya, it attracted batho ba ba tona, ka jalo go ne go sena gore re ka ba kgarametsa jang ka bonako.
Re ka bo re ise re fetse le go ntsha fela ditena tse di neng di le teng pele ga re tsenya tse di teng.

Ke ipotsa gore fa ba e akanya, ba e akanya jang gone foo, gore e kgone to attract credible people ba ba nang le mashetla le maatla a go ka bereka tiro eo e e bokete jaaka a e bua?

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MR TSOGWANE: Nnyaa, kana tseo ke dintlha tse di tlaabong di lebilwe ke Lephata la Local Government ka fa ba lebileng sepatšhe sa bone ka teng, le go bona gore ba ka tokafatsa jang dintlha tsotlhe, either ka lebaka la gore batho ba bereke lebaka le le kae kana ka dituelo.

Go tlaabo go ntse go laola ka fa bone ba tlaabong ba sekaseka lenaneo le ka teng.

Le go nna teng ga madi, gore go tlaabo go ntse jang.
Kana jaaka re bua re re ee, gone e tlaabo e le go dira Ipelegeng mme e le go ithuta, to acquire dikitso, some skills tse motho a ka reng kamoso a bo a ya go itshetsa ka tsone.

Bangwe gongwe e bile ba tlaabo ba feta ba ya kwa lephateng le lengwe le re nang le lone la rated skills, le gompieno re bonang go agiwa mo dikgaolong tse di farologanyeng ke batho ba rutwa.

Re na le yone kwa motseng wa Moreomaoto ya rated skills e batho ba ithutang koo ka go nna le dikitso tse di rileng.
Tota go tlaabo go rutwa bone, go solegela bone molemo la bofelo ka gore ba nne le dikitso tsa go aga le go penta, kana go dira maintenance fela jalo.

Jaanong re ka se eteletse kgang ya madi gompieno, because the benefit is not only in terms of monetary benefits.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR LUCAS: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re Mothusa Tautona, kana Ipelegeng ka fa e berekwang ka teng gompieno, batho ba a tsena e bo e re mo kgweding e latelang ba bo ba tswa go tsena ba bangwe.
Fa re bua ka go fetisetsa dikitso kwa bathong, fa gongwe go tlaare gongwe e fetolwe ka tsela e e leng gore motho o ka e tsena go fitlhelela kitso e a tshwanetseng go e bapala a e bapala e felela.

A mme le na le kakanyo ya gore gongwe ya Ipelegeng le e fetole gone foo, gore jaanong e se ka ya nna e batho ba tlaa nnang ba tsena kgwedi e, e bo e re e e latelang ba bo ba tswa, gore motho a tle a kgone go akola dikitso tseo a bo a kgotsofalele dikitso tseo?
Sa bobedi ke gore, a go na le kakanyo, le akantse jang mabapi le gore kana motho fa a bapetse dikitso, go a re dikitso tseo di kgone go mo solegela molemo gongwe fa a batla tiro kwa pele, a go na le thulaganyo ya gore batho bao ba neelwe sepe se se supang gore ba na le dikitso?
Gape batho bao, a mme go na le tsela epe e le akantseng ka yone gore le ba lomaganye le ba ba tshwanang le bo Madirelo Testing gore ba tle ba kgone ba nne le ditlankana tse di supang gore tota ba kile ba ithuta sengwe se se ka ba sologelang molemo, e bile ba ka se dirisa go batla ditiro?

E nngwe ke yone e ya pilot e e neng e buiwa ke Rraetsho Hikuama.
Pilot project re tsaya gore e a bo e le tekeletso, mo e leng gore fa e ntse jalo e ka nna ya se ka ya tswelela pele fa go lebilwe gore gongwe ga go kgonagale gore e diragadiwe jalo.

Jaanong ke utlwa o kare o mmetetswe ke pelo, e bile o bua gore, pilot project eo rona ga re reye jalo.

A ko o e tlhalose sentle ka gore rona re itse gore pilot project go tewa tekeletso e e ka nnang ya re kwa morago ya go supetsa gore ga o tsamaye ka tsela e e leng yone.
Sa bofelo rra se le se khutshwanetse ke gore, go na le dithulaganyo tse re di buang tsa decentralization, tse di buiwang thata kwa Ministry of Local Government.

A go na le tsela epe e e leng gore they have been factored mo tsamaisong ya Ipelegeng e ntsha, kgotsa Ipelegeng e ntsha re ikaelela gore re bo re e tsamaisa jang, re e amanya le decentralisation process e e buiwang mo lefatsheng la rona?

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MR TSOGWANE: I am sure le wena Mr Speaker ga o a utlwa tse dintsi tse a neng a di botsa, tse dingwe o ne a kgaoga.

Ke utlwile ka ya decentralisation, ya pilot project gore go raya gore gongwe go ka emisiwa le ya batho gore ba tsamaya ba fetolwa, gore a mme go tlaa nna le phetogo ya gore batho ba tseye lebaka, ba kgone to acquire the skills.

Ke re kana moo ke ka fa e tlaabong e diragadiwa ka teng.
Ke tsaya jaaka ke bua ke re, ba Local Government ba tlaa nna le framework, ba tlaa nna le tsela ya gore jaaka re ntse re bua ka gone go simolodisa tekeletso le go tswelela, tekeletso e ga se ya gore re a lekeletsa, re tlaabo re tlogela, it is to learn on the way fa le ntse le tsweletse gore you can improve jang.

So ga re a tshwanela gore re e tseye fela gore is a pilot project, it has failed, it will never, because that will not be the intention of re-engineering Ipelegeng.
The catch word there is “re-engineering Ipelegeng”.

So gore go ya go simololwa leng, jang, go lebeletswe gore dilo di tsamaya jang, there should not be an issue, because the rollout e tlaa teng.

Jaanong e ya gore... MR LUCAS: Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re gongwe ke tlhalose sengwe gongwe Mothusa Tautona ga a nkutlwa.
Ke gore fa e le gore o bua ka pilot project, go raya gore pilot project e e na le detail ya gore e tlile go tsamaisiwa 25 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME jang.

Ke sone se ke se setseng morago gore, a mme e tlaabo e le yone e ya kgwedi le kgwedi o a tswa, kgwedi e nngwe go tsena ba bangwe, because pilot project I want to believe it is defined?

Ga e ka ke ya nna fela gore pilot project, e bo e sena definition.
MR TSOGWANE: Ke sone se ke se go bolelelang ke re, you are asking a new question e e leng gore ba Local Government they have information mo go yone.

So ba tlaa tlhalosa the finer details tsa gore ba tlaabo ba e tsamaisa ka tsela e ntseng jang, which I do not have here.

Jaanong ke ne ke lebile fela jaaka motlotlegi a boditse dipotso tsa gagwe ka teng.
Ke tsaya gore eo ba Local Government are available fa go na le potso e e lebaganeng, ba ka e bodiwa kana wa e tlisa kwano go ya go e tlhotlhomisa kwa go bone.

The other one ke ya decentralisation.

Ga ke batle go bua ka decentralisation for now because it is a policy that will be brought to Parliament to be discussed here.

Jaanong gore e nyalana jang le Ipelegeng, e tlaa tla e buiwa ka nako e go tlaabong go buiwa ka decentralisation.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary.


MR SPEAKER: Honourable Balopi.

MR BALOPI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Ke ne ke re ke botse Mothusa Tautona gore mo tebong ya gagwe jaaka go na le dithulaganyo, ntswa a setse a umakile ntlha nngwe ya kgang ya teng ya rapid skills development centres, tse di rutuntshang batho go sa lebelelwa le dithutego tsa bone mo dilong di tshwana le bo plastering, bricklaying, electrical, plumbing, jalojalo, tse di setseng di rulagantswe go ka nna lesome le boraro lefatshe ka bophara.

Tse tlhano kwa Tsau, Chadibe, Moremaoto, Thamaga le Kazungula di ntse di le teng.
Ke buile Tsau ya kgaolo ya ga Rre Hikuama gore a tle a gakologelwe.

Go na le tse di setseng di le mo bogareng gore di fetswe, di tshwana le bo Ncojane, Bokspits, Sojwe, Phitshane Molopo, jalo, le tse di simolotseng mo bogautshwaneng di tshwana le bo Shakawe, Khakhea le Old Naledi jaana.

Ka bophara jwa tsone Mothusa Tautona fa o di lebile, ga o bone gore di aname go kgona go thusa go rutuntsha batho ka tsone tse ke neng ke di nankola?
Le jaaka mongwe a ne a bua gore o ka ungwelwa ke eng, a wena ga o bone e le gore benefit e ka nna gore skills development centres di setse di na le lenaneo la go neela batho ditlankana gore kwa bofelong, ba ye go kgona go itshupa gore ba itse go dira eng?

E tlaa re fa ba sena go dira mo Ipelegeng, go lebilwe nako e ba tlaabong ba dirile mo go yone, ba kgone gore jaanong ba tsamae ba ye go iphira, ba dira ditiro tse dingwe fa o lebile ka fa lenaneo le setseng le ntse ka teng?
A ga o bone golo moo e ka nna thotloetso ya go godisa dikgwebo tse dipotlana go ya kwa go tse dikgolwane mme go ntse go tsweletse ka go thusa yone Ipelegeng?

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisano tsa Palamente.

MR TSOGWANE: Ke a leboga Minister gore o bo o e adile e bile o supa gore bao ba ba sa tlhaloganyeng, ba tle ba tlhaloganye botoka.
Ke yone kgang e ke neng ke e bua ka rapid skills gore le tsone e tlaa re wa Ipelegeng e bile a ya go simolola koo, a bo at least a na le lesedi, e se yo o tlaabong gotlhelele a sa itse le go baya setena.

Jaanong jaaka o di adile jalo, o dirile sentle gore ba ye go di tlhalosetsa batho ba dikgaolo tsa bone.

E se ka ya nna o kare batho bao are not capacitated, ga ba fiwe dikitso.

Ke dumalana le wena thata Tona wa pele wa lephata lone leo, le le neng le lebagane le dikgang tsone tse.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mmusetse lephateng.

kwa HONOURABLE MEMBER: O tlhalosa botoka thata.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang.

…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang.

…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Ga o utlwale.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Unmute yourself.

MR SPEAKER: Gatwe unmute yourself.

Honourable Dr Gobotswang, unmute yourself.

MR TSOGWANE: Fetela kwa go Moswaane, o santse a lwa motho yole.

MR SPEAKER: There is a line of people who have raised their hands.

Honourable Mmolotsi.


MR MMOLOTSI: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Nna potso ya ka e ne e le gore kana e ne ya re fa re le kwa Palamenteng e e neng e tsenela kwa Boipuso Hall, morago ga Tshutiso e e neng ya nna teng ya gore Ipelegeng e simolole ka e ne e emisitswe, maDomkrag ba ne ba gana Tshutiso eo ba re kana go emetswe gore Ipelegeng e tle e simolole e le e ntšha, e e nang le maduo.
Jaanong e ne e ya re 26 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME morago ba busetsa Ipelegeng fela jaaka e ne e ntse.

Jaanong potso ya me mo go wena Mothusa Tautona ke gore ka gore Rre Molale o ne a re solofetsa mabaka a gore ba bo ba ne ba sa simolola Ipelegeng, e ne e le gone gore ba batla go e simolola e le a new Ipelegeng, go ka tswa go bo go padile eng ka nako ya teng?
Jaanong o re tlhalosetse gore mo nakong ya gompieno e re ntswa le bua ka pilot projects tse e leng gore ga di ise di wele, ga le ise le dire review, re solofele leng gore jaanong e tlaa nna boammaaruri Ipelegeng e ntšha e e nang le maduo?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR TSOGWANE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Nnyaa, re a farologana mo Ntlong e, le Batswana ba tshwanetse go itse.

Go na le maikaelelo kana seemo sa bone ke mo gotweng e tlaa re re re ke dipitse, re bo re di bonye ka mmala.
Go na le Setswana se se ntseng jalo.

Ga go molato gore fa e le gore wena o wa tumelo ya gore e tlaa re re re ke dipitse, re bo re di bonye ka mmala, o bo o ka rialo.

Jaanong ke batla go go bolelela gore rona fa re tlaa bua gore Ipelegeng ga e ise e emisiwe, re buile jalo le ka nako ele gore ga gona Ipelegeng e e emisitsweng fa batho ba ne ba bua jalo.

It was scaled down, e ne e le nako ya COVID-19 mo ba se ka keng ba dira ditiro tse dingwe jaaka ke buile fa ka nako eo.
Jaanong e ne e se fela gore gatwe go emetswe eng.

Rre Molale o ne a supa gore mme e bile re mo tswelelong ka gore, gore e bo e santse e emisitswe ka mabaka a bo COVID-19, ga go reye gore go se ka ga tswelelwa ya tlhabololwa.

Dipaakanyo tseo ke tsone tse gompieno di re fitlhisitseng gore re bo re simolola ka district e nngwe.

Jaanong a re tlogeleng fela gore re ne re reile batho ra re Ipelegeng e emisitswe mme e sa emisiwa, re bo re batla go iphitlha ka monwana.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, ke boetse, ke kopile boroko.

MR SPEAKER: Yes Honourable Dr Gobotswang.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Your Honour the Vice President (VP), kana o Modulasetilo wa Rural Development Council (RDC), so ke tsaya gore dikgang tse o tshwanetse go di bua re utlwisisa gore ke tse le di buisantseng gone koo.
Jaanong potso ya me ya ntlha ke gore a mme gone go na le pampiri e le nang nayo o le VP, e e atolosang dikgang tse sentle ka botlalo gore maikaelelo ke eng?

A pampiri e teng e e kwadilweng Your Honour the VP?

Potso ya bobedi ke gore kana Ipelegeng e ne e setse jaanong e na le bagolo fela ba bangwe ba le bo 75 or 80 years.

Jaanong kana ka fa e tlang ka teng, ke tsaya gore e tlaabo e le gore jaanong ba ntshiwa.
Legale o ka tlhalosa gore a mme le a lemoga gore fa le ntse le tsweletse, gongwe bagolo ba tlaabo ba ntshitswe mo lenaneong le?

Jaanong kana ba ne ba tsena mo lenaneong le ka gore tandabala wa bone o ne a le kwa tlase mo go gakgamatsang.

A mme kgang e le e akantse?

La reng ka tandabala ya bagodi fa e le gore ba tlaa felela ba ntshitswe kwa Ipelegeng, e ba neng ba leka go kopanya madi a?

Le ya go dira eng ka seemo seo?

Potso e nngwe ke ya gore o ne o re budget ke P528 million.
P528 million yo ke wa eng?

A ke wa dituelo?

Madi a projects le a operational costs a ya go tswa fa kae?

A mme go tlaabo go na le protective clothing?

A babereki ba, ba tlaabo ba fiwa diaparo tse ba itshireletsang ka tsone?

P528 million yo fa o mo kgaoganyakgaoganya, wa re ke wa eng Your Honour sentlentle?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR TSOGWANE: Banna bagarona ba a kgatlha wa itse.

Tla ke simolole ka ya bofelo fela, e bile Kapinga o a tshega.
Ke simolole ka ya bofelo e gotweng jaanong when we re-engineer Ipelegeng re e fetola, jaanong bagolo re ba baya fa kae?

Gongwe throwing back the question to the Member because o e botsa jaana a lebile BDP kana Puso, gore ka maikaelelo a bone ka mmotsi wa potso o buile gore ba ne ba na le maikaelelo a go fetola ba e dira labour intensive, bone ba ne ba ya go dira jang ka bagodi?

Then the answer will be the same.


Fa e le gore ba ne ba ya go dira jang ka bagodi ka gore rotlhe fa re a dumalana gore diphathi tsotlhe di ne di ya to transform Ipelegeng ka fa ke utlwileng ka mmotsi wa potso sentle.

What Honourable Dr Gobotswang is saying, negates their position.

Jaanong before ba tswa mo position ya gore ga ba ye to transform Ipelegeng, then the answer, your guess is as good as mine, gore re ya go bereka jang.
Kana go na le ditiro tse dingwe tse e leng gore di tlaabo di ka dirwa ke bagodi, ga se gore botlhe ba tlaabo ba rwala ditena ba dira nnetu fela, go na le tse dingwe tse bagodi ba ka kgonang gore ba di dire e le tsa Ipelegeng.

Jaanong ke tsaya gore ke yone kwa go nang le karabo teng.

Gape matshelo a bagodi fa ba godile, ba na le lenaneo le le ba tlhokomelang, these are social welfare programmes tse di thusang bagodi.
Re bua ka a single register, tsa bo gore e re mo nakong e e tlang, go se ka ga nna le motho yo o dirang double dipping.

Ke gore o bereka Ipelegeng, o bo o tsena mo lenaneong le lengwe la social programme, o bo o tswa mo go lone o tsena mo gongwe gape o tsaya ka fa le ka fa, ke gone mo go ntseng go tlhaetsa madi.
Jaanong mo go tlhabololeng mananeo 27 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME a, ba Local Government ba tla ka a single register e e tlaa supang gore ga go ye go nna le double dipping.

So gongwe ke tsone tse di ka re thusang.

O ne a botsa gore a re na le dipampiri, ke tsaya gore dipampiri di teng Motlotlegi Dr Gobotswang, Minister of Local Government will avail those papers tse di supang gore tota mosepele wa bone o tsamaya jang.
Le madi, kana ba Local Government ba setse ba rodile budget ya bone le madi a a mo teng.

Jaanong maybe we must go back to your budget and see.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba rotse, ga ba a rodiwa VP.

Ba rotse madi a bone.

MR TSOGWANE: It is good to be taught ke motho yo e leng gore o ne o sa gopole gore o ka go ruta Setswana.

Ke a leboga rraetsho ka kgakololo eo.

Ba rotse.


Ke one madi ao, we will analyse budget ya bone, re bone gore maloba fa ba rola budget ya bone, ba ne ba re madi a bone ba ya go a kgaoganya jang.

Re setse re e buisantse budget eo, ga ke a akgela mo go yone, probably I should have missed something there.

Re tlaa go thusa Motlotlegi Rre Gobotswang, we will avail the budget speech gore o tle o bone gore ba ne ba rulagantse jang madi a Ipelegeng.

Ke a leboga.

MR NKAWANA: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


Le nna nte ke botse Mothusa Tautona morago ga pego e a e beileng fa pele morago ga gore a bodiwe potso ke mokaulengwe.

Ke eletsa go itse gore ka gore pilot project e setse e simolotse mo district e re leng mo go yone, le ithutile eng in terms of skills acquisition, gore le impart skills tse di ntseng jang mo go bo mang?

Le gore fa o lebile, so far, what will be the required entry qualifications in terms of academic, age, sex and otherwise?
Se sengwe e bo e nna gore, a gone lona in your basket of skills, a di teng tse o di tshotseng tse e leng gore e ka re motho a emelela a re ke ya kwa Ipelegeng, a bo a ikaelela gore my intention is to acquire these and that skills tse di leng teng, kgotsa e tlaabo e le fela gore fa o tlile fela one-size-fits-all?

Fa e le gore wena o ne o eleditse go ithuta go penta, fa e le gore ke tiro ya diatla ya go penta, o bo o e tsaya fela ka gore ke yone e leng available.
A le na le catalogue of skills tse e leng gore le ikaelela gore di tle di tsene mo bathong ba ba tlaabong ba participate?

Potso ya me ya bofelo, ke e ke tshwenngwang ke gore VP o supa gore batho ba ba tsenang mo Ipelegeng now and then ba ka tsamaya ba kopa mantlwana a boitiketso gongwe le gongwe.
Ke re nnyaa VP, a ga o na kitso ya gore go na le kwa go ka hirwang mobile toilets gore fa batho ba kgobokaneng teng, ba bo ba ka itiketsa teng ba sa ye go kopa, ka gore fa gongwe ga ba berekele mo dijarateng, ba bereka mo sekgweng, jaaka re ba bona ka current arrangement ya Ipelegeng.

A ga o bone go le botoka mo sebakeng sa gompieno gore batho ba thusiwe jalo,ba tlogele go ya go kopa mo dijarateng tsa batho, kgotsa ba se ka ba tsena mo sekgweng?

Ke a leboga.

MR TSOGWANE: Tlaa ke simolole ka ya bofelo.


O bua boammaaruri Motlotlegi Nkawana, kana jaanong tseo ke details.

Gompieno jaana batho ba Ipelegeng depending gore ba berekela kwa kae, gongwe ba ba ba eteletseng pele ba ka lemoga gore go tlhokafala seemo se se ntseng jang.

So yole o ne a botsa fela ka toilets, mme ke tsaya gore ka gore re tswa mo phathing e le nngwefela, that same thinking ke yone eo.
Jaanong go tlaa tswa fela mo go bone jaaka o bua gore ba ka nna ba nna le tse di mobile, kana ba iphirisetsa tse di yang go tlhomiwa fale.

Re a itse gore moo go a diragala kana, depending fela gore a ba na le madi a go hirisa dilo tsa go nna jaana.

So it is a given.

I thought fela o ne a bua ka tse di stationary tse di nnang fela foo, but like you are saying, moo go ka thusa le gone.
tsaya gore Ka qualifications, ke le Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Gaborone North o utlwile fa a tlhalosa fale a bua ka go thusa batho gore ba nne le dikitso gore mo rapid skills development centres, tota ga go lopiwe qualification gore o tle ka ya gore.

Le nna mo paragraph 10 jaaka ke ne ke bala, ke buile gone jalo gore there will be skills transfer, those skilled, passing practical skills to the learners.
Kana gompieno jaana re a itse, le rona re tswa kwa metseng gore Ipelegeng e ntse e aga fa gongwe gotwe ba ye go aga ntlo ka Ipelegeng, mme go sa tewe gore ba ba tlaabong ba provide labour e le ba Ipelegeng, mme yo o hirilweng le ene, e le ene moagi yo o nang le dikitso tsa go aga, a eteletse tiro eo ya go aga a na le dikitso tse a ka bong a na le tsone.

Jaanong gone moo ke gone to transfer skills tseo mo go ba bangwe.

Jaanong ke tsaya gore ga go na qualifications tse di tlaabong di ka batliwa.
Fa e le gore ba tlaabo ba sekaseka gore yo o ka kgonang gore fa re aga a tsholetse setena, ba tlaa mo tsenya.

Fa e le gore ke mogodi ga a kgone mo seemong sa go palama a aga, ga ba ka ke ba mo tsenya foo.

Jaaka ke bua, ditiro di tlaabo di farologane.

Se sengwe se ke se buileng, ke buile ka go dira diterata; fencing is a skill.

Batho ba ba ntsi ba tlhoka batho ba ba ba direlang diterata tsa dijarata le tsa dipolase.
Fa 28 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022LEADER OF THE HOUSE’S QUESTION TIME e le gore mo cluster fencing, e le project e e tlaabong e le teng e dirwa ka Ipelegeng, batho ba ba tlaabong ba dira le batho bao, ba ya go tswa ba na le dikitso tsa gore jaanong ba ka aga terata.

Ke dingwe tsa dilo tse di lebeletsweng, tse di ntseng jalo.

I am sure I have covered tsa ga Motlotlegi Nkawana.

Ke a leboga mogolo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary.

MR SPEAKER: We have run out of time for questions.


ASSEMBLY IN COMMITTEE (CHAIRPERSON in the Chair) APPROPRIATION (2022/2023) BILL, 2022 (NO.

2 OF 2022) ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERS (Resumed Debate) MR CHAIRPERSON (MR SKELEMANI): Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, the debate on the Bill is resuming.

When the House adjourned earlier for lunch, Honourable Boko was on the floor debating.

You are left with four minutes 41 seconds.


MR BOKO (MAHALAPYE EAST): Thank you Mr Chairperson and good afternoon.

Mr Chairperson, pele ga re kgaogana re ya dijong tsa motshegare, ke ne ke santse ke le gone mo kgannyeng ya Attorney General.

Ke lela jaanong ka kgang ya gore mo nakong ya gompieno Tona, o fitlhela e le gore kwa ofising ya DPP, ga gona diagente tse di lekaneng go ka thusa tiro e e leng gore e ntsi kwa ofising yone eo.

Ba ba leng teng bontsi jwa bone ke ba e leng gore they are inexperienced.
Bontsi jwa diagente ba dule ba ile kwa mafulong a matalana.

Ke re gongwe o tlhodumele gone kwa ofising eo gore o ka bona gore o dira ka tsela e e ntseng jang go leka to retain diagente tse di gone koo, tsa Puso to deal le cases tse e leng gore di dintsi kwa ofising ya ga DPP Mr Chairperson.
O tlaa gakologelwa gore mo nakong e e fetileng, re feletse re ya go tsaya diagente di tshwana le bo Gerrie Nel kwa mafatsheng go tla to deal le cases tsa DPP, mabaka e le one a gore go na le gongwe inexperience e ntsi kwa ofising ya DPP.
If you can give them incentives babereki ba teng, if you can do sengwe se se botoka to retain them in terms of kwa ba nnang teng, the working conditions and everything else, ke a go tshephisa gore go ka tswa maduo kwa ofising yone e. Se sengwe ke yone ofisi ya DPP, e e leng gore ka fa tlase ga molao wa lefatshe lone le, e ka fa tlase ga ofisi ya ga the Attorney General.

I think nako e gorogile gore jaanong le yone e tswe ka fa tlase ga ofisi ya ga the Attorney General.
You will recall very well gore fa gotwe there are matters of public interest, go tlhokafala gore DPP a ye to caucus pele le the Attorney General.

You will recall that Attorney General kana ke advisor ya the Executive.
Fa e le gore the Executive e ne e ntse fa fatshe e raya Attorney General e re nnyaa e case ka gore ke ya mogolo, ga e a tshwanela go ya go fitlhelela kwa makgotlatshekelong, there is no how the DPP will not agree with the Attorney General gore case ele e tshwanetse gore e se ka ya isiwa kwa makgotlatshekelong.
So, I think gape fa re tsena mo review of the Constitution, fa e le gore e tlaa tla, ka gore gatwe e tlaa dirwa, le fa re sa tshephe, gongwe re lebelele ntlha yone e Tona Mmusi gore re bone gore we separate these two so that we give the DPP that autonomy, that self-rule, re e ntshe (separate) completely from the Office of the Attorney General.

Sa bofelo Mr Chairperson, ke yone the security of tenure ya ga the DPP.
Currently it seems that it serves at the whims and caprices tsa ga Tautona, looking at the security of tenure.

I think it is something that we need to carefully look at so that when he exercises his judgements and delivers in terms of his mandate, o dira a sa gadima ka fa morago ga gagwe ka gore currently ka fa a berekang ka teng, o gadimile ka fa morago gore nako e nngwe le e nngwe fa e le gore ga a tsamaye ka fa Motlotlegi Tautona a batlang ka teng, o ka nna a mo ntsha mo maemong one ao.
So independence in all these institutions, is of great importance and ga ke dumele gore go na le mongwe yo o ka se kang a dumalana le nna mo dikgannyeng tsone tse.

Other than that I commend them fela gore go na le court kwa Maun, batho ba Maun need not travel far distance to motse wa Francistown, ba latela High Court gone koo.

That is commendable.

We hope le tlaa oketsa Judges, because currently there are only two Judges if I recall well.
So le tlaa hira (recruit) Judges tse dingwe gore di kgone go ya go thusa mo cases gone kwa Maun.

That is the only thing se e leng gore ke ka le commend mo go sone.

Other than that I hope the Minister o ne a ntheeditse fa ke ntsha matshwenyego one a, e bile o tlaa dira sengwe ka one.
Go le gantsi re tlaabo re tla gone fa re bo re bua matshwenyego a Office of the Attorney General, DPP, 29 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) makalana a otlhe, mme ga gona sepe se se diragalang in relation to our comments, o kare jaanong re tletse gone fa go tla go opela fela and nothing is acted upon on what we say.

I hope this time around it would be a little bit different from you Tona Mmusi.
Please prove me wrong in terms of what I said, but I have no doubt in my mind gore all these things tse re di buang ga gona sepe se e leng gore o a se note gone foo or you will act mo go sone.

We are just making noise ka fa o bonang ka teng.

Ke lebogile thata Mr Chairperson ka nako e o neng o e mphile.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Boko.

I was advised earlier that there is no list from Honourable Kablay and there was no intention of providing one either.
ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MS MAKWINJA): Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

Ke a leboga batlotlegi, good afternoon.

Mr Chairperson, lephata le la AG Chambers ke lephata le le botlhokwa fela thata mo go tsamaiseng lefatshe.

Ke le tshwantshanya le letshego Mr Chairperson, le le nang le pitsa e e kgabakgabang, e e se keng gotwe e budule, e a tsholwa, ka gore ke lephata le e leng gore ke lone jaaka re le fano jaana le re thusang to draft melao, ka go dira melao ya lefatshe le.
Fa le dira melao ya lefatshe le, e bo e nonotsha yone puso ya batho ka batho.

Fa le ka bo le seyo Mr Chairperson, re ipotsa gore melao e e kanakana e e leng gore gompieno re e kgonne, mme bogolo jang re ba leboge batho ba, ba ne ba bereka bosigo le motshegare, fa re tlhasetsweng teng Mr Chairperson.

Ba sa robale, re kgona go dira melao teng mo Palamenteng e, e re le ise le phirime molao o o bo e bile o dule.

Re le mo seemong se e leng gore ga ke bone gore batho ba Modimo ba ne ba kgona go robala.
Re re tshwanetse gore re ba akgole, re ba phophothe lebogo, mme re ba phophotha lebogo jaana gape, re itse gore jaaka Honourable Boko a setse a buile, batho ba ba Modimo ga ba nne mo AG Chambers.

...(Inaudible)… e kwa godimo ka gore o kare dikatso tsa bone fa o di tshwantshanya le dikatso tsa ba ba tshwanang le bone mo maphateng a sele, di kwa tlasenyana Mr Chairperson.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Correction.


MS MAKWINJA: Gone golo mo go dira gore ba bo ba sa nne lebaka mo AG Chambers, mme kana AG Chambers ke one machine o o re ntshetsang digaka tsa babueledi, ba e leng gore fa ba ka bo ba santse ba le teng, gongwe mathata a a thataganeng a re nang le one a, a ka bo a se bokete jo a leng mo go jone.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Correction.

MS MAKWINJA: Ke yone e re sugelang babueledi, ke yone e dirang gore puso ya batho ka batho e nonofe.
E na le lephata la DPP Mr Chairperson, le e leng gore le a sekisa, kana le dira gore ditsamaiso tsa ditshekiso di tsamaye ka thelelo, mme lephata leo gape fela le tshwana le la AG, tota le tlhaelelwa ke bodiredi.

Re kopa ka tsweetswee gore lephata le le botlhokwa fela thata, a le tlhokomelwe.
Re se ka ra nna le babueledi ba tsena ba tswa, ba tsena ba tswa, kgantele jaanong le rona go ya to the bench, go bo go nna dingalo ka gore tota motho yo o yang to the bench nna ke dumela ke le nosi legale, gore tota a bo a sugilwe mo go lone lephata le.

A itse sentle tsamaiso le motheo wa lefatshe le.


Fa ke re ke letshego mme le rwele pitsa e e kgabakgabang Mr Chairperson, ke raya jaana; jaaka o bona e le gore jaanong re ntse re lela ka gore re mo mathateng mo lefatsheng le, bogodu bo ile kwa godimo; a ke bogodu jwa dikgomo, jwa madi kana jwa eng fela, bo ile kwa godimo.

Mo pegong ya ga Tona Mr Chairperson, mo Clause 9, o bua ka mathata a a aparetseng lefatshe le.
O ka bona gore ditagi foo di kwadilwe gabedi; re na le letshwenyego la ditagi, la bana mo dikoleng.

Fa re ka ya go tsaya dipalo tse di kwa Lobatse tsa bana ba ditlhogo tsa bone ga di sa tlholeng di bereka, batsadi ba tshela ka dipelo tse di khibidu ka ditagi mo lefatsheng leno Mr Chairperson, re tlhoka mapodise.

Magodu, ditagi, terrorism, wildlife gotlhe mo go batla mapodise.

A Lephata la DPP Mr Chairperson, go tsere lebakanya, le role mapodise morwalo ka gore re a a tlhoka.
Batho ba ba Modimo le bone ba tshwere bothata, ba a bereka.

Fa ba santse ba le koo, ba ditagi ba kafa, fa ba re ba kwa ditaging, ba dikgomo ba kafa, re mo mathateng Mr Chairperson.

Ke sone se ke lelelang lephata le ka pelo e khibidu ke re, a le thusiwe, le tle le nne le badiredi ba ba lekaneng.
Re tle re kgone go tsaya ditiro tse dingwe tse di dirwang ke mapodise, di tsene mo teng, gore mapodise a tle a tswe, a re thuse mo go lekaneng ka gore gompieno batho ba Modimo ba a kgarakgatshega, ga ba kgone go sala dikgetsi morago, ka gore ba tshwara kwa le kwa.

Ke a bona gore le tsentse lentswenyana gore go tlaa nna le 5 per cent e e tlaabong e ya towards emoluments.
A go ka se ke go lekwe to review dikatsonyana tsa bone, gore ba lekalekanngwe e bile gongwe ba fete ka gore batho ba ba tshwere lefatshe Mr Chairperson, ba Attorney General le ba DPP.

Ke bone ba re beileng mo go bone, ga ke itse gore a go na le yo o ka nkganetsang fa ke bua jalo.
30 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Ke leboge gore Tona o dirile maiteko Mr Chairperson, ka gore gompieno jaana police stations di le 34 di setse di rotswe mokgweleo o. Ke solofela gore le tse di setseng e tlaa re go ise go ye kgakala Mr Chairperson, e bo di rotswe mokgweleo gore mapodise ba tle ba kgone go dira tiro, le ba DPP ba nne le motlhala o o papametseng gore nnyaa, kana dikgetsi tse e le ruri di a sekisiwa, ka gore dikgetsi di a kgobelelana, go bo go raya gore go tsaya lebaka.
Re a di itse tse di saleng di ntse di le teng, re sa itse gore mathata gore di fetswe ka potlako ke eng.

Re a itse gore lephata le tota le tshwere bothata, ke lephata la botlhokwa thata Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, Tona o bua ka go tlhoka tsa boroko.

Ke itumelele gore projects tse di dirwang, di na le matlo a babereki, ka gore go tswa bogologolong re ntse re dira dikago fela tsa go bereka, mme boroko fa gongwe bo salela kwa morago.
Se se tlaa thusa fela thata, le rona re tle re bone gore go ya pele, tota fa re batla dikole le dipatela, di tswe le matlo a boroko.

Ka gore Goromente o leka go ithola ditiro tsa go nna jaana, gongwe tsa boroko re ka rotloetsa batho ba ba nang le ditsha gore ba age matlo gore babereki ba ba hirise mo go bone, ba tle ba nne le letseno.
Re nne le tsamaiso ya gore rraagwe semangmang a hirisetse Goromente, o ka dira jang, go batla ntlo e ntse jang jalojalo gore re fokotse mokgweleo mo ga Goromente, mme re tsenyetsa Motswana kwa gae letseno.

Ke one monyetla wa Motswana kwa gae, barutabana le ba bongaka ga gona kwa ba nnang teng.

Ke leboga Tona gore a bo a bonetse pele kgang e, gore e re fa offices tse di bulwa, le batho ba bo ba le teng, go sa twe nnyaa, boroko go rile go rile.
Mr Chairperson, ke ne ke sa batle go ya loolo, ke kgang e e tlhamaletseng fela.

Dikgang di pedi, a dikatso tsa AGC le ba ba berekang mo lephateng le di sekasekwe, ba tle ba kgone go dira tiro ya bone ka bonatla, ba kgone go nna sebakanyana mo lephateng le gore ba nne le dikitso tseo jaaka re bona gore re tlaabo re na le… MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable minister, your time is up.

MS MAKWINJA: Thank you Mr Chairperson.


ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke ema fa go ema nokeng polelo e e tlang ka Minister of Defence, Justice and Security ya AG.

Ke simolole ka go supe gore kana AG ke ene Chief Legal Advisor wa Goromente wa lefatshe la Botswana.
Jaaka e le Chief Legal Advisor jaana, o dira tiro tse di masisi, tse di botlhokwa go babalela lefatshe la Botswana le go gakolola Goromente wa Botswana mo ditshwetsong tse a bong a di tsaya.

Le go gakolola Palamente ya rona le go re direla melao (draft Bills) tse di tlang fa pele ga Ntlo e, fa re dira melao.

Tiro e ba e tshwereng e ntsi e bile e tona thata, mo e leng gore dinako tse dingwe e nna o kare ga ba bereke, ga ba dire tiro sentle, kana ba bonya mo go direng tiro.
Ba sa itire, ba imelwa ke tiro e e ba lebileng kwa AGCs le kwa DPP kwa ba sekisang teng.

Modulasetilo, fa o ka gakologelwa ngwaga wa 2020 fa COVID e simologa, AG o ne a tshwere namane e tona ya tiro ya go dira melao ya COVID, fa re ne re tlile fa pele ga Palamente ka kgang ya potlako.

Ba ne ba re direla tiro e ntle fela thata, ba direla setšhaba sa Botswana melao e e tlileng e tla e ba dibela, gape e sa ba kgokgontshe mo go kalokalo ka ditshwanelo tsa bone.

Re ba leboge.
Re ba leboge.

Gape re ba leboge gore ba bo ba dirile melao e re neng re e fetisa maloba fa ngwaga o simolola, fa Botswana a le grey listed.

Ba e dira, e bo e tla fa pele ga Palamente ka potlako.

Re ne ra bona fa molao wa ga Rre Mmusi wa Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act, le fa bangwe ba rona ba ne ba ipelaetsa ka yone, mme ka ponyo ya leitlho, badiri ba tla gape ka diphetogo tse re neng ra di amogela rotlhe mo Palamenteng gore di fete.

Ke tiro e ntle, e ba AGs ba tshwanetseng gore ba e akgolelwe.
Gape re gakologelwe gore ke bone ba e reng fa Goromente a seka, ba emela Goromente kwa court.

Re ne ra bona dingwaga tse pedi tse di fetileng, go tsogile modumo o montsi mo lefatsheng, o kare Goromente o a latlhegelwa kwa makgotlatshekelo fa judgements tsa High Court di tswa, e bile Goromente a kgalwa.

Re leboge AG ka gore o ne a ema sentle, a tshwara ka natla.
A dumela mo ditshwetsong le dikgakololo tse di filweng Goromente wa Botswana gore tsela go ka tsewa e. Ba ya kwa Court of Appeal, jaanong re a bona ditsheko di ntse di a tlhamalatswa.

Ditatlhegelo tse di neng di galalediwa ke bangwe ba rona fa, e bile ba tlhobosa Goromente, ba tlhobosa Attorney General, jaanong judgements tsa appeals tse di dirilweng fa di tswa, ba a didimala, ga go na ope yo o buang ka tsone.

Go botlhokwa gore re bue ka tsone re di supe gore judgements ke tse di a tswa.
E bile di supa fa kgakololo e ne e filwe Goromente wa Botswana e tswa kwa go Attorney General, e tlhamaletse, e bile e siame.

E bile e direla Batswana 31 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) sentle ka gore ke eo Court of Appeal e supile.
Batho ba ba neng ba batla go lwantsha Botswana le mafatshe a sele a tshwana le China, ba batla go etela batho against the policy ya Government of Botswana, go supile gore national interests should come first go na le individual interests fa re bua ka international relations.

Ke sone se ke tshwanetseng ke se supe, e bile re akgole ba ba re thusitseng go dira tiro e e kanakana.

Ke bue gape le ka ba DPP gore tota ba dira tiro e ntle fela thata.
Go tshwanetse go buiwe gangwe le gape gore Batswana ba itse gore DPP, mosekisemogolo wa lefatshe, o tlhomilwe ke Ntlo e ya Palamente.

E bile gape a tlhomilwe mo Molaomotheong wa lefatshe.

Fa Ntlo e, e dira Molaomotheo wa lefatshe, e dira ofisi ya ga DPP.

Ga go na ope yo o ka tshwenyang DPP.

O bereka a le independent, go kwadilwe mo Molaomotheong, go tlhamaletse.

E bile gape ga se gore fa gotwe a consult Attorney General, go tewa gotwe Attorney General a mo tseele ditshwetso.
To consult ke go rerisa fela, e se gore re dumalane, nnyaa, ke go bolelela motho gore ke batla go tswa jaana.

A itse before a ya go tsaya ditshwetso.

Fa a go kopa tlhaloso, o mo tlhalosetse mme e se gore o ka go emisa go tsaya ditshwetso tse o di tsayang.

Diofisi tse pedi tse, di dira tiro e e manontlhotlho, e e siameng, e bile ba tshwanetse ba kgothadiwe go tswelela ba dira botoka go feta jaaka ba dira.

MR BOKO: Clarification.


Honourable Minister, a mme o tlaa dumalana le nna gore nako e gorogile gore re sekaseke Molaomotheo le ditsamaiso tsa rona gore diofisi tse pedi tse di ikemele ka nosi?

Go se ka ga nna mo gotweng ke ya to consult kwa go yo mongwe.

An office such as the DPP e tseye ditshwetso ka boyone koo, the Attorney General le yone e tseye ditshwetso koo.

As a matter of fact, they deal with two different species of cases.

Re tlaa dumalana gone foo gakere mme honourable?


MR MTHIMKHULU: Nnyaa, ga re ka ke ra dumalana, e bile ke go tlhalosetse gore ga gago it is a narrow minded thinking.

Ka fa go ntseng ka teng, o tshwanetse go itse gore fa DPP a sekisa, o a bo a sekisa dikgang tse gotweng they are of national importance.

Go na le dilo tse di ka tswang di ama thokgamo ya lefatshe.
Fa gotwe a emisiwe to consult, o tshwanetse gore fa a ya go seka, the Chief Legal Advisor in terms of Molaomotheo wa Botswana, a bo a itse gore dilo tse di kwa pele.

A tle a gakolole Goromente wa lefatshe la Botswana gore go ya go na le consequences tse di ntseng jaana in terms of security ya lefatshe gore go ya go tsamaya go ntse jang kwa pele.

Those are of national concern.

Ga go ka ke ga tsamaya fela go ntse jalo, o tshwanetse a rerise.
Ga ke bone go na le mathata ka gore ga gotwe fa a rerisa o tlaa emisiwa kana tshwetso e ya go tsewa ke Attorney General.

Nnyaa, e tsewa ke ene ka sebele gore a o a tswelela kana ga a tswelele mme o tlaa rerisa.

E bile ga go ise gotwe o tlaa emisiwa.

Mma ke tswelele morena wa me ke re, go na le misconception e e reng diagente tsa Puso di duelwa madi a mannyennyane.
Nnyaa, di ka tswa di sa duelwe madi a a kalokalo mme if you compare le other professions tsa Puso, diagente tsa Puso are being paid fairly well.

Ke kile ka bereka teng, e bile ke ka supa gape gore progression ya bone fa ba le kwa Attorney General’s Chamber ga e tshwane.
Fa o simolotse o tsena kwa Attorney General’s Chambers ka C1, yo mongwe a simolola kwa a berekang teng ke go fa sekai; gongwe e le economist, ga ke itse gore a ba simolola ka C3 kana C2, o bo o lebelela dingwaga tsa bone go ya go goroga kwa go E gore Attorney General o ya go tsaya dingwaga tse six fela a bo a le kwa D1 scale kana E. O bo o lebelela progression ya bone gore they progress botoka.

Ga ke ise ke re ba duelwa sentle, le nkutlwe sentle.
Dilo tse jaaka dibui di ntse di bua, di tlhoka gore re ye go di lebaleba to retain the best of the best.

Ba tle ba tswe pelo go tla go bereka mo ga Goromente jaaka re bona a latlhegelwa thata ke madi mo dilong tsa tenders.

Kamoso go bo go supiwa Ministers le Goromente ka monwana gotwe go a senngwa.

Go senya ba sele ba ba tshwereng tsamaiso ya go baakanya tenders ba thusiwa ke dikonteraka tse di beilweng monwana tse di nang le diphatlha tse dintsi.
Diphatlha tse di bo di dirisiwa ke ba bangwe ba dikonteraka ba ba itseng to manipulate go oketsa madi a tender kana a ba ka a tsayang mo Pusong.

Ke gone fa tshenyo e e ntsi e tsenang teng.

Dilo tse gongwe fa re ya kwa pele, go ka lebelelwa ba ba nang le botsipa jo bontsi jwa go dira dikonteraka gore ba ka ngokelwa mo go Goromente gore ba tle ba re thuse mathata a re lebaganyeng le one.
Dikonteraka tse e leng gore every time fa go nna le construction project, madi a teng a oketsega fela because of these little things tse di mo konterakeng and they are heavily skewed against Government.

I thank you Mr Chairperson.

MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke lebogela go bona sebaka sa go akgela mo budget e ya Attorney General’s Chambers.

Jaaka ba bangwe ba buile, Attorney General’s Chambers ke mogakolodi yo motona wa ga Goromente mo dikgannyeng tsa molao.
Sa ntlha fela se ke batlang go se 32 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) supa ke gore, ke dumela go gorogile nako ya gore DPP, yo o okametseng ditsheko tsa borukutlhi, a ntshiwe ka fa tlase ga legwafa la ga Attorney General.

Fa o ka lebelela mo page 1 fa go supilweng teng maphata a a dirang Attorney General’s Chambers, ke a matona, a mantsi.
E bile fa o pega DPP fa godimo ga one, go nna bokete fela thata gore Attorney General a kgone go a okamela effectively.

Ke batla go baya submission fa, to challenge Minister gore nako e gorogile ya gore molao o fetolwe, DPP e nne a standalone department e se ka fa tlase ga ga Attorney General.

Ke dumela gore se se tlaa fokoletsa Attorney General morwalo, a bo a kgona go itebaganya le dikgang tse dingwe tse dintsi tse di mo salelang.
Kgang e tona ke gore Lephata la Attorney General’s Chambers ga le gole, le ganelela fela mo ditoropong tse pedi e bong Gaborone le Francistown.

Courts di a ikala ka lefatshe la Botswana, maphata a ga Goromente a a dirang le batho, a bo a nna le dikgang fa gare ga one le batho, a ikadile ka lefatshe la Botswana fa Attorney General’s Chambers e ganelela mo Gaborone le Francistown.

Ke gone fela ke neng ke utlwa malobanyana jaana gotwe ba butse ofisi kwa Maun.
Maabane fa re buisana le ba lephata la teng kwa komiting ya rona ya tsa semolao, ba bolela fa e le gore go rometswe badiredi ba le bararo fela kwa Maun go ya go lebelela kgaolo ele yotlhe ya Maun.

E bile le level ya batho ba ba rometsweng kwa, ga se e e nang le that authority to decide the issues before them.

Go raya gore dinako tse dintsi ba isa kwa headquarters gore ba bolelelwe gore ba tseye tshwetso e e ntseng jang.

Mr Chairperson, ke batla go gatelela kgang e nngwe gape.
Go lebega e le gore vote ya pro deo… Pro deo kana ke lawyers tse Goromente a di batlang from the private sector gore ba emele basekisiwa ba ba lebaganweng ke katlholo ya leso, ba ba emele mme ba duelelwa ke Goromente.

Go lebega e le gore ga go tsenngwe madi a a lekaneng mo vote e. Ga ke itse gore a go tsewa gore it is just a coincidental expenditure kana jang?
Kana mo lefatsheng le e leng gore we assure motho legal representation e e leng tshwanelo ya gagwe under the Constitution, especially fa a lebaganwe ke katlholelo leso, ke dumela gore Attorney General’s Chambers e tshwanetse gore e tsholetse budget e gore ba kgone go duela lawyers tse di emelang batho.
Otherwise, fa e le gore go a sokolwa gore lawyers tse di duelwe, ba ya go felela ba fitlhela e le gore jaanong the only lawyers available to them ke ba e leng gore they cannot be able to get clients elsewhere, ba lebile fela go bona gone mo go Goromente, golo moo ga go a siama.
Se sengwe Mr Chairperson se ke batlang go se bua ke gore it is unavoidable gore from time to time Attorney General’s Chambers e tlaa batla thuso mo lawyers tse di ikemetseng mo dikgannyeng tse e leng gore gongwe skill seo kgotsa kitso eo ga e yo within the Chambers.
Fa go ntse jalo, go tshwanetse gore go bo go na le madi a a beetsweng fa thoko a a lekaneng a go itse gore fa re ya go tsaya lawyer kwa bonnanne re batla gore e tle go re thusa, gongwe a specialise mo confiscation, e bo e le gore madi a teng go duela lawyer eo.
E seng gore e re a sena go dira tiro kana pele ga a dira tiro, e bo e le gore other votes are raided, gotwe “re neeleng foo re pataganye re tle re duele semangmang.” Mr Chairperson, ke dumela gore mo nakong e re leng mo go yone, vote e e tshwanetse gore e tsenyediwe madi a a lekaneng.
Se sengwe se ke batlang go se gatelela ke gore mo nakong ya gompieno Mr Chairperson, especially for maphata a matona jaaka Attorney General’s Chambers, selo se se botlhokwa ke devolution gore ditirelo di gasame le lefatshe e bile batho ba neelwe authority ya go tsaya ditshwetso kwa ba leng teng.
E bo e le gore headquarters ya teng yone ke to quality assure gore a mme ditshwetso tse di tserweng e ne e le tsone ka fa molaong go nale gore a bo ditshwetso di santse di tsewa ka bontsi mo headquarters kwa Gaborone kana Francistown.

Se sengwe se ke batlang go feta ka sone Mr Chairperson, ke botlhokwa jwa go anamisa lawyers mo maphateng le maphata a a ikemetseng ka gore selo se se imolola Attorney General’s Chambers bokete jwa gore sengwe le sengwe se bo se tsisiwa kwa go bone.
Fa ke le kwa embassy kwa Pretoria Mr Chairperson re ne re tewa gotwe fa re batla go saena lease le landlord kwa South Africa, re tshwanetse gore re romele that draft lease kwa Attorney General’s Chambers.

Ke ne ka bona selo seo e le go senya nako Mr Chairperson.
Ke ne ka tsaya tshwetso ka bonna gore fa e le gore ke a seka ke tlaa seka, re tlaa ipatlela advice mo Pretoria from a local lawyer gore a bone gore a mme lease eo e ka fa mokgweng go na le gore e ye kwa Attorney General’s Chambers e ye go tsaya dikgwedi tse tharo re bo re latlhegelwa ke property e re neng re tshwanetse gore re e bone.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MS MAKWINJA): Clarification Mr Chairperson.

Tanki motlotlegi.

Ke re re na le babueledi mo ministries ntate ba ba re thusang.
Thank you.

33 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR KAPINGA: Jaanong ga ke itse gore o tlatsa fa kae Mma Makwinja ka gore ke ne ke bua gore selo seo se botlhokwa thata gore lawyers di isiwe kwa ministries le maphata a a ikemetseng gore the provision of legal advice e nne much faster than it has been in the past.

Ga ke itse gore o tlatsa fa kae ka gore I am emphasising botlhokwa jwa selo seo?
Se sengwe se ke batlang go se gatelela Mr Chairperson, se se botlhokwa thata ke tiego e e builweng ke Honourable Boko mabapi le dikgang tsa murder.

Go a nkgakgamatsa gore go bo go tsaya dingwaga tse tharo, four or five motho a emetse go sekisediwa go bolaya motho yo mongwe, mme e se polao epe e e complicated fela, gore go ne go omanwa kwa club kana kwa sepotong motho a bo a ntsha thipa a tlhaba yo mongwe a bo a a swa.

Mr Chairperson, ke sekisitse, cases tse di ntseng jalo ga se tse di complicated.
Go na le cases tse di complicated tsa fraud tse e leng gore gongwe ke tsone tse di ka diegang go santse go ipaakanngwa go iwa kwa court.

Fela gore motho o omane le yo mongwe a bo a tsaya thipa a mo tlhaba a bo a mmolaya kwa sepotong, ga go a tshwanela gore go tseye dingwaga di le four, five a emetse tsheko, dinako tse dingwe a le mo toronkong.

Batsadi ba moswi ba fela pelo gore tota motho yo o re bolaetseng ngwana o tlaa seka leng?
Mr Chairperson, ke dumela gore boeteledipele jwa Attorney General’s Chambers le jwa ministry go a tlhokafala gore ba tsholetse maoto in terms of transforming this department and breaking it down so that e nna more manageable than it is.
Ke ipotsa gore Attorney General wa rona wa ntlha fa a ka tsoga mo lesong a tla go lebelela seemo se Attorney General’s Chambers e ntseng mo go sone, a o ka kgatlhega gore tota ba ba ileng ba mo tlhatlhama a ba tsere Chambers ba e tsholetsa, ba e tlhabolola go feta fa a tlogetseng teng?

Ga ke go balele mo teng Mr Chairperson ka gore ke a itse gore le wena o ne wa dira fa o dirileng teng.

Ke raya ba ba tlang kwa morago ga gago.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A o nyatsa badirelapuso?


MR KAPINGA: Will the predecessors be impressed gore nnyaa mme go tlhabolotswe ka seemo se se kwa godimo, ka bofefo jo bo tlhokafalang?

Fa ke digela Mr Chairperson ka re Attorney General’s Chambers is a very critical department mo go Goromente.
Ke lengwe la maphata a a ka thusang gore go tlhomamisiwe gore dilo di diriwa ka fa molaong ka go fa bogakolodi jwa semolao ka nako e bile e le jwa boammaaruri le maemo a a kwa godimo go na le gore ba bo ba a fa bogakolodi jo e leng gore dinako tse dingwe o ya go fitlhela bo belaetsa gore a mme ke jone jwa molao tota.

Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O tswa kgakala ka boganana Kenny, gakere?

MR KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): leboga Modulasetilo.
Modulasetilo, ke Ke a go dumalana le Honourable Boko le Honourable Kapinga gore maphata a a Attorney General’s Chambers le DPP a tswe ka fa tlase ga lefuka la one a nne independent.

Mo godimo ga moo, se setonatona ke ya security of tenure ya DPP ka gore ga re batle gore DPP a tseye ditshwetso a lebile dikgatlhego tsa the Appointing Authority gore o ka itumela fa kae, o ka seke a itumele fa kae.
Ke buisiwa se ke gore fa DPP a ka se ke a nne le security of tenure jaaka Constitution e provide gore o tlaa fiwa contract ya five years e e ka nnang renewable kana o ka serve until a nna 60 years, gone mo go mo dira gore jaanong a nne o kare ke setshwara sa Executive.

Go mosola gore re mo dire independent gongwe fela jaaka fa Attorney General a hirwa.
Kgang e ya gore Attorney General ke administrative boss ya ga DPP e tshwanetse gore le yone e sekasekwe, bogolo jang yone kgang ya gore DPP o tlaa consult Attorney General mo dikgannyeng tse e leng gore they are of public interest ka gore ga e tlhalosege sentle gore cases tse e leng gore they are of public interest ke tse di ntseng jang.

Re a tshwenyega Chairperson ka kgang ya gore go na le cases di le dintsinyana tse di kwa DPP, di pala go goroga kwa makgotleng a ditsheko.
Cases tse di akaretsa tsa corruption tse di neng di le kwa bo Directorate of Intelligence and Security (DIS) tsa bogologolo, tsa Botswana Development Corporation (BDC), Botswana Meat Commission (BMC) le tse dingwe fela jalo.

Go a tshwenya ka gore dikgetsi tse dingwe tse di feta dingwaga di ka nna 10 di ntse di le kwa tafoleng ya DPP.

E kile ya re fa re botsa ka dikgang tse ra tewa gotwe nnyaa ba ne ba di busetsa kwa go Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC) gore e ye go tlhotlhomisa gape.
Fa o re o botsa DCEC, le yone e tlhapa diatla gore, “nnyaa mme ke tlhotlhomisitse, ke convinced gore corruption has been committed mme ke isitse dikgang kwa DPP.” Jaanong dikgang tse Modulasetilo, motho o felela a ipotsa dipotso tsa gore a ke kgang ya gore these are issues of national interest which were discussed le 34 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) Attorney General kana cases di pala gore di sekwe ka mabaka a a rileng, cases tse di santseng di le teng kwa makgotlatshekelong.
Se sengwe ke kgang ya gore, in high profile corruption cases, re santse re na le mathata a low conviction rate.

Dikgetsi tse dintsi tsa tshenyetso-setšhaba le go gopela itsholelo di latlhegela Goromente kwa DPP.

Ke gore fa o tsaya corruption and economic crime, dikgang that involve kana di akaretsa batho ba maemo a a kwa godimo, madi a a kwa godimo, bo rakgwebo le bo mmakgwebo ba maemo a a kwa godimo le corporate executives, bontsi jwa dikgang tse di latlhegela DPP kwa makgotleng a ditsheko.
Re a itse gore white collar crime is very complex, mme e bile re a itse gore the standard of proving in any criminal case is also high, in that you have to prove, not only prove, but prove beyond reasonable doubt.

Fela go a tshwenya gore in high profile corruption cases e bo e le gore there is so much low conviction rate to the point e e leng gore jaanong the public confidence mo DPP kana DCEC e felela e ya kwa tlase.

E nna o kare tota fela fa gotwe corruption go tewa petty bureaucratic corruption.
Petty bureaucratic corruption Mr Chairperson, kana re bua ka mo e leng gore gongwe lepodise le a seka gatwe he or she was bribed kana mongwe o file motho yo o dirang passports pipa molomo gore ya gagwe e dirwe ka bonako.

Ke gore those are petty bureaucratic corruption tse e leng gore ke tsone tse re di bonang kwa makgotlatshekelong, e le gore they result in successful prosecution.

Tse e leng gore they are high profile, they involve big companies, involve millions, nnyaa dikgang tse di latlhegela DPP.
Mme re re dikgang tse di a tshwenya.

Let DPP be capacitated, diagente di dintsi, di teng mo seterateng, e bile tota ga go sa tlhole go ka twe law is a scarce skill, it is no longer a scarce skill.

Lawyers are everywhere unemployed, le kwa Phikwe kwa go na le bana ba ba neng ba dira molao ba e leng gore they are unemployed.
Bana ba, re ne re re a kgang e gotweng Directorate of Public Service Management (DPSM) e gana ka posts tsa gore go hirwe kwa DPP, Goromente a dire mo go bonalang, Tona a dire mo go bonalang gore bana ba hirwe, ba ye to prosecute these cases.

Ba role mapodise mokgweleo, ka gore mapodise tota their primary function is to investigate and prevent crime.

Jaanong a ba itebaganye le gone foo, ba tswe mo kgannyeng ya to prosecute ka fa go ntseng ka teng.
Mr Chairperson, ke tswa kgakala ke kgala tsamaiso e ya gore…le wena o a itse gore Mr Chairperson fa o santse o le Attorney General you were sitting mo Palamenteng, kwa Judicial Service Commission, mme e bile you were sitting in Cabinet.

Arrangement yone e e e neng e le teng fa re tsaya boipuso, e ntse e teng le letsatsi leno.
Motho yo o bidiwang gotwe ke Parliamentary Counsel yo o mo Palamenteng, o fa a emetse Attorney General, Attorney General can transfer them the following day a mo isa kwa lephateng le lengwe.

Jaanong gone mo ke mathata, gore fa re ya kwa Judicial Services Commission, Attorney General o koo, fa re ya kwa Cabinet Attorney General o koo advising the Cabinet.

We cannot have this arrangement definitely.


Fa go tla mo kgannyeng ya gore go baakanngwe Molaomotheo, kgang e e tshwanetseng gore e lebelelwe thata, gore Attorney General a lebagane fela le gore ke principal legal advisor ya ga Goromente, go tewa Executive, a bo a felela koo.

Mo Palamenteng go bo go nna le agente yo o hirilweng ka tsamaiso ya gore Speaker sa Palamente a bo a le involved.

Komiti e e lebanyeng e bo e le involved, Clerk of the National Assembly le ene a bo a le involved.
Go bo go ka hirwa motho yoo go itsewe gore e ya go nna mogakolodi yo o sa lebeng kwa morago, yo o sa yeng go sokela dirope kwa Executive e le mogakolodi wa Palamente, a lebeletse Palamente fela.

E bile e le gore jaanong go tlaabo go na le a fully-fledged Parliamentary Counsel office e na le staff se se lekaneng le badiredi ba ba lekaneng.

E kgone gore e gakolole Palamente mo go tsa molao.


Mo kgannyeng e ya JSC, le yone ga re akanye gore Attorney General o tshwanetse gore e bo e le member of the Judicial Service Commission, a le koo a na le Permanent Secretary to the President, Judge President, Chairman wa Public Service Commission, Chief Justice kana any person yo Tautona a dumelang gore o ka bo a le koo.

Batho ba botlhe e le gore they are appointed by President.
Re dumela gore gone mo go ka tlhabololwa, ga dira gore tota Attorney General should focus mo go se se tshwanetseng se e leng go gakolola the Executive.

Kwa Judiciary go nne le representation e e botoka, go ka bonwa gore go dirwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Mr Chairperson, fa o bona re batla independence ya Mogakolodi wa Palamente wa semolao, ke gore re a gakologelwa gore when we were still dealing with kgang ya National Petroleum Fund (NPF), Attorney General o ne a gakolola Palamente gore investigation ya Palamente mo kgannyeng ya National Petroleum Fund e eme.

Re ne re dumela re le Palamente kana re le bangwe ba Mapalamente gore, nnyaa ga go a tshwanela gore go ka bo go ntse ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
So Mr Chairperson, re dumela gore Lephata lele la Attorney 35 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) General’s Chambers, le lone can be capacitated.

Ke gore fa o re o tsaya Mapalamente ba ba nang le tšhesego ya go tlisa Bills, go na le delay fela e e leng gore ga e kana ka sepe kwa Attorney Generals kwa Drafting Division.
Go a supa gore go raya gore there are no enough Drafters, fa e le gore ga gona enough Drafters, go a tlhokafala gore go ye to train Drafters ba e leng gore they can draft melao.

Bangwe ba bone ba ka tla mo Palamenteng ba gakolola Palamente ka kgang ya go dira molao.

Mafoko a a neng a buiwa Mr Chairperson a gore Lephata le la Attorney General, o kare jaanong mo kgakololong ya lone dikgang tsotlhe di tlaa isiwa kwa Attorney General’s Chambers le fa ntswa mo maphateng ka bontsi go na le in-house lawyers.
Those in-house lawyers must be adequately empowered to take decisions tse e leng gore ke dikgakololo tsa semolao.

Go na le gore e bo dilo di ya lololo di ya kwa go Attorney General, gotwe a ye go di lebelela.

Ene e le gore tota tiro ya gagwe e ntsi ke go gakolola Cabinet.

Jaanong Mr Chairperson, ke ne ke re a re lebelele dintlha tse tsa gore DPP must be independent of the Attorney General.

A nne fully independent, a se ka a nna even administratively under Attorney General.
A lephata le le nne capacitated, a security of tenure ya DPP e lebelelwe.

A kgang e ya low conviction rates in high profile cases re e lebelele re bone gore e ka tweng.

A mapodise ba ntshiwe mo prosecution, DPP e nne yone that prosecute.

Attorney General a tswe mo goreng jaanong e bo e le gore o ikadile, o mo maphateng otlhe ka goregolo mo it detracts from the independence ya maphata ao, Judiciary and Parliament in particular.

Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.


MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Ke a leboga Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, mma ke tsene fela mo dintlheng ka bofefo ke re, tota matshwenyego a a leng teng a a tshwenyang bo agente ba rona ke gore melao ya rona e e bidiwang gotweng electronic laws, go lebaka e sa tswe.

Fa e sale ngwaga wa 2020 kana 2019 gone foo, ga gona le fa e le electronic e e neng e ntse e tswa kgapetsakgapetsa.
Ke mo ke tsayang gore gare ba ikiteye ka thupa Tona, ba bone gore mme melao e ka gore e thusa fela thata e kgone gore e nne e le teng.

Fa e sale go le lebaka fela e-laws e sa tlhole e le teng.

Ntlha ya bobedi Mr Chairperson e e tshwenyang ke gore, kana gore bo agente ba fenye dikgetsi, go na le law reports tse di tswang, cases tse Court of Appeal that has set precedent mo go tsone.
Fela jalo le yone eo go lebaka go sa tlhole go na le melao ya sebopego seo e e kwadilweng mo dibukaneng, go kgona go thusa Batswana botlhe ka kakaretso le bo agente gore, fa ba batla go bona gore the decided case ya Court of Appeal e e current e ne e reng, ba bo ba kgona go bona kgang ya sebopego seo.

E bile kana le yone e e ka tokafadiwa fela gore gongwe when they are still printing bogolo e bo e le gore fela in their website di kgona gore di bo di tswa go le bofefo.
Jaanong selo se se turela bo agente le Batswana gore ba dire researches, ba simolole ba tsamaye ba ya kwa bo Court of Appeal ba tlhole gore kante how was this case decided, e how was it decided, jalojalo.

Ke re Attorney General ba iteke thata mo kgannyeng eo.

Kgang ya backlong cases Mr Chairperson, ga ke ka ke ka tsaya lebaka mo go yone, fa e se fela gore re re, e-e tota dikgang tse di tsayang lebaka, tse Batswana ba setseng ba lemogile, ke tse bontlha bongwe jwa tsone o kareng di ama babusi kana bagolo.
Re re e-e, a tota independence e ya AG le DPP, go supafale gore e nosi.

Kana AG is the only principal legal advisor, ga gona yo mongwe gape.

Jaanong fa a re kgang ke e, a e diragadiwe fa e le gore go na le kgang mo go yone.

Ntlha e nngwe e e tshwenyang Mr Chairperson, ke kgang ya transparent progression ya diagente kana staff.

Bontsi jwa attorneys ba ba berekang kwa AG, ba ipotsa gore gatwe tota fa gongwe batho ba tlhatlosiwa maemo jang.
Fa ba ntse ba re ba na le motho, ba utlwa fela go setse gotwe yo mongwe kana has been promoted e bile ke Judge, ba sa gane gore gongwe motho is qualified kana a na le tse di tshwanetseng.

Ba re a go nne transparent, go bo go bitswe interviews gotwe bagaetsho itekeng lesego, phatlha ke e ya bo Judge kana ya maemo a a kwa godimo e dule.

Selo se se tshwenya bodiredi e bile se ka tloga sa ba kgoba marapo Mr Chairperson.

Kgang e nngwe e ke batlang go tsena mo go yone ke ya… MR REATILE: Clarification.
Thank you Honourable Chairperson.

Ramogapi, fa o bua ka gore diagente kwa AG ba ne ba bona fela mongwe e le Judge, gakere Judges golo fa di feta ka Judicial Service Commission (JSC).

Ke yone e e dupang gore ke ofe yo o ka nnang Judge gore President a tlhophe.

E le gore kwa AG go hirwa jang gore motho e nne Judge foreman?

A ko o leke go mphatlholola gone foo?

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke a leboga rra.


O tlaa fitlhela e le gore se se diragalang, leina le ile fela kwa JSC mme se Batswana ba lelang ka sone le bone ba ba private ke 36 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) gore a selo santlha go nne le advert e e supang gore re batla bo Judge, a le ka tswa le le mo private sector kana mo AG, apply le iteke and be interviewed.
After being interviewed, ke gone go bo gotwe mme jaanong rona re bona gore mo lephateng la rona ba bone, ba pasitse interview mo lephateng mme ba ka tsamaya.

Kana ba tswa ka fa Law Society gotwe mme mo private sector re dirile interviews, we recommend ba gore ba ye go nna Judges, go na le gore kgang e e bo e tla e tsena fela kwa JSC go sena transparency from the bottom or the public, go sena mo go kileng ga bitswa adverts ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Kgang e nngwe e e tshwenyang Mr Chairperson, ke ya outsourcing of private lawyers; go hira diagente ba ba ikemetseng.

Golo fa jaanong o tlaa fitlhela e le gore fela fa motho a a ja le Puso ya ga Domkrag, o fiwa cases ke AG kgapetsakgapetsa.

Mo go raya gore ba bangwe e bile ba ba ka tswang ba le mo diphathing tse dingwe tsa bo UDC jalojalo, ba ka nna ba felela ba re golo fa gore ke je jaanong, ke gore ke ithatise babusi, ke tle ke kgone gore ke nne ke fiwa cases le nna ke AG.
Golo mo Mr Chairperson, ga re bone go siametse lefatshe.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR RAMOGAPI: E tseye ka bofefo morwaarre, ke beye dintlha tsa me.

INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS MINISTER OF AND COOPERATION (DR KWAPE): Clarification.

Motlotlegi, ke ne ke re mo kgannyeng e o buang ka yone, a o bua o na le bosupi kana o bua fela gore o kgatlhe ba ba reeditseng?

Fa o na le bosupi, a o ka se ke o bo ntshe, ra tla ra bo utlwa gore wa re Judges ba lebelela ntlha e le nngwefela jang, kae?
MR RAMOGAPI: Motho yo o robetse, ke kile ka re Judges ba lebelela ntlha e le nngwefela kae?

O ntietse nako ya me mahala fela.

Mr Chairperson, ke bua ka outsourcing ya private lawyers; go hira bo attorneys ke AG gore a ba emele.

Ke kgang e ke e buang gore kana motho yo e leng gore o ka emela Goromente fela ka fa molaong ke AG.

Jaanong bone ba AG, go na le cases tse ba reng tla re hireng boagente ba ba ikemetseng ba le nosi.
Jaanong kgang e ra re a e re go hirwa boagente ba ba ikemetseng ba le nosi, go bapadiwe, go dirwe a tender.

Theko ya ga Goromente ke gore go dirwe tenders.

Theko e go tlhomiwang batho fela kamoso gatwe Rre Pilane re emele foo, Rre Manewe re emele foo, Rre Ramogapi re emele foo, Rre semangmang re emele foo nnyaa, golo moo ke corruption Mr Chairperson.

Ga se yone tsamaiso, a ko go dirwe sentle.

Ke fa sekai fela ke sa reye gore mo go ntse jalo Mr Chairperson.
Kgang e nngwe Mr Chairperson, e e tlhamaletseng fela ke yone e e tshwanang le ya gore go bo go tsewa agente kwa South Africa, diagente tsa Botswana di le teng, di na le boikarabelo, go bo gotwe e tle go emela Botswana.

Mr Chairperson, nnyaa, dilo tse ga se tsone.

Re tshwanelwa ke gore re di kgale gore fa e le gore motho o a tsewa, go tlhobogilwe eng.
Ke gore re na le diagente mo AG le tsa private sector, tse e leng gore batho ba ba na le boikarabelo jo bo kwa godimodimo, go na le gore re bo re tsaya motho kwa re re ke Gerrie Neil, a tle go ja madi.

Le fa o ka re o a botsa gore Gerrie Neil o ne a ja madi a dira eng, ga gona yo o ka go arabang.

Re re nnyaa batho betsho, a madi a a moswang a rothegele mo Batswaneng, e nne bone ba ba jang madinyana one a go nne botoka.
Kgang ya bofelo e ke batlang go feta ka yone Mr Chairperson, ke retaining strategy ya diagente tsa rona.

A Puso e tle ka mananeo kana leano la gore tota it should retain the best lawyers, go na le gore dinako tsotlhe ba e bo e le gore they will be resigning ba ya go ikemela fale ba le nosi mme kamoso Puso e tla e sokola gore tota ga e bone batho.
Gape le tsone dintlha tse ke di buileng tse kana di ka kgoba batho marapo fa e le gore batho e a re fa ba solofetse gore ke tlaa tsaya case e le nna leina la me le golediwa gore ke ne ke emetse Puso ka botswerere, go bo go tsewa motho kwa South Africa.

Fa e le gore e tlaa re diagente di le teng mo AG go bo go tsewa motho ka gore o tsala le Domkrag, nnyaa, golo mo ga se gone.

Re tswa kgakala re go kgala mme ra re ba ba dirang jalo ba emise ka ponyo leitlho.
Re a itse gore go na le cases tse re ka reng di matswakabele.

Kana re raya dikgang fela tse e leng gore ga di na matswakabele bope, mo o bonang gore mo ke mo gotweng ke jesa tsala ya me sengwefela gore le ene a je sengwe.

Bagaetsho, Batswana ke Batswana botlhe, re a lekalekana, a dikgang tse tsotlhe re bone gore re di dira sentle ka tekatekano go thusa Batswana.

MR GREEFF: Clarification.


Honourable Member of Parliament (MP), ke ne ke re ke botse gore kana ke utlwa o ganeletse thata mo dikgannyeng tse tsa gore yo ke moDomkrag, go neelwa bone fela.

A o na le bosupi jwa batho botlhe ba ba kileng ba fiwa ditiro kwa AG Chambers gore a ke ba Domkrag?

Fa e le gore o ba itse, o ka ba re bolelela.

37 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) MR RAMOGAPI: Ke a leboga.
E se ka ya re fa ke bua o bo o utlwa botlhoko.

Bogologolo fale go ne go lela lona maDomkrag le re Parks Tafa o tsaya ditiro tsotlhe.

Gompieno go na le yo mongwe who has joined you maloba, yo o neng a le mo kganetso, o tsaya ditiro tsotlhe.

O emela Tautona Masisi, fa a tswa mo go mo emeleng fa gotwe UDC e seka le Domkrag, ke ene o a bitswa o emela Puso.

Dilo tse Batswana ba a di itse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr Chairperson.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke dilo tse Batswana ba di itseng e bile ba di lebelela.
MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Ramogapi.

MR RAMOGAPI: Maloba jaana go ne go tserwe… MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Ramogapi, your time is up.

Thank you.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: As a matter of procedure Mr Chairperson, if I could before you call another speaker.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MOATLHODI: In all fairness Mr Chairperson, Standing Order 57.6 does not allow any one of us to talk about citizens of this country that are not inside this House.
It was very unfair and unfortunate for Honourable Ramogapi to be saying bo Parks Tafa ba itaya ba re.

Standing Order 57.6 is categorically clear My Lord.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Ke lona le mo kopileng.

Honourable Minister of Defence, Justice and Security, reply to the debate please.

(MR MMUSI): Thank MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY you Mr Chairperson.

Ke utlwile dikakgelo tsotlhe tse di tswang mo Mapalamenteng a a tlotlegang mme re a di lebogela Mr Chairperson.
Go ne ga simolola Honourable Boko, yo o neng a simolola ka go ngongorega ka gore DPP o tsere lebaka ka gore prosecutional processes go tswa kwa sepodiseng go fudugela ka kwa go bone di ne di tsere lebaka.

Ke tlhalose gore tota strategy se se sale se simolola ka 2020 or financial year ya 2020/2021, jaanong se mo ngwageng wa bobedi.

Gone ga ke ka ke ka re re kgonne gotlhe mo re neng re go eletsa ka mathata a gore ga re na madi a a lekaneng.
Fela ke ka tlhalosetsa Ntlo e gore mo police stations di le 79 re setse re tsere cases di le 34, this translates to about 57 per cent.

Gone e ntse ke maiteko.

Re ntse re tsweletse, le mo ngwageng o o tlang o wa madi, re tlaa tswelela re ntse re leka go fokotsa.
Selo se sengwe gape se Honourable Boko a neng a se bua, ke kgang ya gore dikgang tse tsa Gender Based Violence (GBV) ke tse e leng gore tsone tota ke dikgang tse di tshwentseng thata, tse a neng a bua gore kana e a re motho a isitse case e ya GBV, e re e setse e tshwanetse gore e sekwe, e bo yo mongwe kana yo o neng a e tsentse a re nnyaa, ke e busetsa kwa morago.
Golo mo DPP le ramapodise ba ne ba tsaya tshwetso ya gore fa case e setse e le kwa, DPP ke ene fela e ka reng fa motho a re o batla go busetsa case e kwa morago, a dumela.

So tshireletsego e teng foo mo e leng gore DPP o ka lebelela mabaka otlhe before a ka re case e boele kwa morago.

Re ne ra bua ka delayed cases tsa murder, mme re a itse, e bile ke selo se e leng gore le rona se re tshwentse thata gore di a diega, mme kana re a itse gore go a bo go na le babueledi dintlheng tsotlhe.
Re tlaa nna re ntse re leka ka sengwe le sengwe gore re di itlhaganedise gore di fele ka pela, di se ka tsa diega.

Honourable Boko o ne a bua ka conditions of service kwa AGC tsa boagente.

Kgang e le nna e rile fela fa ke tsena mo ministry o ka 2019, Attorney General AG ka sebele o ne a e ntibisa gore tota re tshwanetse gore re thulanye ditlhogo, re bone gore re ka tokafatsa mebereko le dituelo tsa bana ba gagwe ba ba berekang kwa go ene.
Ke selo sengwe se e leng gore re santse re ntse re se lebeletse, re bona gore re ka dira jang gore re kopele lephata le madi, gore re leke gore re thuse diagente tse di leng kwa.

Re a itse gore tota kana fa o berekela Puso, ga o ka ke wa amogela madi a a kana ka a motho yo o kwa private sector.

Ke gore in any sector; a o accountant, a o eng, scale sa bodirelapuso o fitlhele se le kwa tlase mo sengwe le sengweng.
O fitlhele e le gore tota kana ke go ithaopa, nako e ntsi o a bo e le gore tota o berekela lefatshe, so Puso ga e ka ke ya kgona to compete le private sector.

Gone re tlaa tswelela re leka ka sengwe le sengwe gore at least dilo tse di tshwanang le maroko, le gore tota batho ba sireletsege mo ditirong tsa bone, re leke gore re di dire, ke dilo tse re di lebeletseng.

Honourable Boko o ne a bua gape ka independence of office ya ga DPP.
Tota re a leka, ke sale ke tsena mo ministry o, ga ke ise ke bone go na le ope a tseneletse 38 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) kwa ofising ya ga DPP a leka go mo kaetsa gore a bereke jang kapo a dire jang, o letlelelwa fela gore sengwe le sengwe a se bereke go sena ope yo o tsenang mo tirong ya gago.
Le ene AG tota is always very clear gore kana tota DPP e independent, ga ke ka ke ka tsenelela kwa go ene, sengwe le sengwe ke ene a se itirelang, ke ene a tsayang ditshwetso.

Le gore o ka hira bomang e le diagente gore di tle go mo thusa, ke ene a tsayang ditshwetso tseo.

So tota ke tsaya gore independence eo gone mme re a utlwa gore ofisi e ikemele ka nosi, e se ka ya nna ka fa tlase ga ya AG.
Jaaka ke bua, ke dilo tse e leng gore kana gompieno re tshwanetse gore re ka di bua, ba ba sekasekang Molaomotheo ba a dikologa, jaanong ke dumela gore ke dilo tse e leng gore le rona re tlaa di ba lebisa gore e re fa e le gore Molaomotheo o ka sekasekwa, wa baakanngwa, le bone ba di baakanye dilo tseo.

Honourable Boko o ne a bua gape ka bails, gore di a diega.

Fa motho a ne a filwe bail kwa ga mmakaseterata, fa a ya kwa High Court gape o tshwanelwa ke gore a tle a kope bail.
The granting of bail on indictment of murder is governed by Section 96 of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act where a bail is determined by the High Court.

Tota High Court determines.

Ke dilo di teng, di a diragala.

Issues of bail is a matter of serious concern, le rona fa re riana, re leka go baakanya molao o e leng gore o tlaa lebagana le bail go bona gore ga di fiwefiwe fela, di fiwa mo e leng gore go a tlhokafala.
E ne ya re fa re tswa mo go Honourable Boko, ra tsena kwa go Motlotlegi Mma Makwinja.

Motlotlegi Mma Makwinja re lebogela thata ka fa o lebang ka fa re berekang ka teng.

O re akgotse thata yes, AGC tota ba berekile, ke batho ba ba berekang bosigo le motshegare go dira Bills tse di fetisiwang ke Palamente e. Mo ngwageng wa 2021 ba fetisitse di ka nna 28 tse e leng melao gompieno.

Maloba re ne ra tlisa tse mengwe, ke dumela gore e kare e ne e le 17 tse e setseng e le melao jaaka ke bua gompieno jaana.
Ba tlaa tswelela ba ntse ba bereka fela thata.

Honourable Mthimkhulu le ene o ne a akgolela maphata a tiro e ntle e ba e dirang.

Honourable Kapinga le ene ngongorego ya gagwe e tona was to separate office ya ga DPP le ya ga AG gore e nne standalone.

Jaaka ke bua, ke selo se re tlaa tswelelang re ntse re se dira.

O buile ka ofisi ya Maun gore re simolola ofisi ya Maun, mme re setse re rometse batho ba le bararo fela.
Ke a mo solofetsa gore kana gompieno jaana jaaka re kopa madi, re ntse re batla gone gore re oketse bodiredi mo diofising tse le mo lefatsheng lotlhe.

Re a utlwa o re lephata le ga le gole jaaka maphata a mangwe, mme kana tota lephata le is specialised, le tshwanetse gore le hirelwe batho ba ba rileng AG a lebeletse.

Gone re tlaa leka thata rraetsho gore e re mo ngwageng o wa madi, re nne re anamise, e bile re leke gore re batle batho ba e leng gore ba ka tla go re thusa gone kwa AGs.
Honourable Keorapetse tota kgang ya gagwe e ne e le ya separation of powers, security of tenure ya ga DPP, mme jaaka ke ntse ke bolela gore ke dilo tse e leng gore re di utlwile, re tlaa dira sengwe le sengwe se re ka se kgonang ka dinako tse di rileng fa go kgonagetse.

Kana gore maphata a farologanngwe, is a financial cost, re tshwanetse gore re lebelele, budget e re nang nayo e, gongwe ga e ka ke ya kgona gore re ka dira tsone dilo tseo, mme re tlaa nna re ntse re leka go dira.
Jaaka ke boletse, kakanyo-melao ya Molaomotheo wa lefatshe e tsweletse, mme ke dilo tsa gore re separate ditiro tsa ga AG, ke ka fa go neng go bua Honourable Keorapetse feeling gore AG o mo ditirong tse di ntsi.

Go tlaa nna go ntse go ntshiwa dikgakololo kwa go ba ba tsayang dikakanyetso tsa Molaomotheo gore re ka tla ra leka gore re ka tsamaisa jang lephata le, ga nna jang gore go nne ka go ikemela ka nosi.

Go ne ga akgela gape Honourable Ramogapi.


Rraetsho, ke ka go bolelela gore nnyaa, e-laws di ntse di teng rraetsho, go na le website: www.e-laws.gov.bw.

Di ntse di a tswa nako le nako.

Di teng, batho ba ke lebelela.

Mo gongwe Honourable Ramogapi o ne o bua gore gongwe ga re tsamaise dilo ka fa di tshwanetseng go nna ka teng.
Ga nke go lebelelwa gore ofe ke ofe, ofe o ka kae, go lebelelwa fela gore ke mang yo o nang le bokgoni, yo o ka kgonang gore a re thuse case e re nang nayo fa e leng gore kwa Attorney General’s ga re na bokgoni jone boo.

So, tota re nna re ntse re lebelela dikgang fa di ntse jalo rraetsho.

Ba Attorney General’s ke lephata le le itlotlang fela thata, le leka go nna very transparent mo ditirong tse ba di dirang.
Ke berekile le bone mo dingwageng tse pedi le half tse, mme ke ntse ke lemoga gore ke batho ba e leng gore they are always very transparent, ga nke ba tsaya sepe ka ditsela tse dikhutshwane.

Ba leka gore ba sale molao morago.


Le diagente tse re di beetsweng mo diofising Modulasetilo, tse di leng teng in ministries, ke tsa manontlhotlho, Attorney General le team ya gagwe, e a re fa ba di deploy ba bo ba itse gore agente yo is well skilled for this particular ministry mme e bile le 39 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1300 - ATTORNEY GENERAL’S CHAMBERSCommittee of Supply (Resumed Debate) fa a le koo, he or she is going to give dikgakololo tse di maleba.
Ke dilo tse ba di diragatsang nako le nako.

PERFORMANCE REVIEW 2021/2022 FINANCIAL YEAR Mme tse e leng concerns kana eng tse e leng gore le rona jaaka ke bua, go na le fa re nang le concerns teng, re tlaa tswelela re ntse re bona gore re ka di tokafatsa jang ka one madi a re tlaa a bonang a le a re tlaa nang re ntse re tla re a kopa mo dingwageng tse di tlang.

So, ka one mafoko one ao Mr Chairperson, ke batla go leboga bomorwaarre ba ba akgetseng le ba ba sa kgonang go akgela, ba ba re gakolotseng.
Le komiti ya ga Rre Kapinga e re letseng re kopane le yone maabane, ke batla go e leboga for the opportunities they gave us and the discussions which we had le bone ka fa nneng ba re gakolola ka teng.
Ka one mafoko a a kalo Mr Chairperson, I therefore request that the sum of Two Hundred and Sixty-One Million, Four Hundred and Ninety-One Thousand, Seven Hundred and Seventy Pula (P261,491,770.00) under the Recurrent Budget and the sum of Thirty-Nine Million, Nine Hundred and Fifty-Two Thousand, Nine Hundred and Twenty-Six Pula (P39,952,926.00) under the Development Budget be approved and stand as part of the estimates of the financial year 2022/2023.

I move accordingly.

I thank you Mr Chairperson.


Question put and agreed to.

ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERAL MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, please note that 2 hours have been allocated to this Organisation and I shall call upon the Honourable Minister to reply to the debate at 1730 hours today and the question will be put at 1505 hours on Monday, 14th March.

Honourable Minister, you may present.


ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC (MR MTHIMKHULU): ADMINISTRATION Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, permit me to present to Parliament the budget proposals for the financial year 2022/2023, under Organisation 1400, the Office of the Auditor General.

Recurrent Budget, I request a total amount of Ninety-Two Million, Nine Hundred and Seventy Thousand and Eighty Pula (P92,970,080) for the financial year 2022/2023.
Allow me to commence with the achievements and challenges of the past financial year.

Mr Chairperson, the Office of the Auditor General had planned for 148 audits for the financial year 2021/2022.

These include 121 Financial and Compliance Audits across 23 ministries and 20 local authorities, 15 Information Technology/Information Systems audits, nine Performance Audits and three Specialised Audits.

A total of 79 were completed.

The rest of the audits are at various stages of completion.
Mr Chairperson, last year I informed this esteemed House that I had carried out financial, compliance and performance audits of COVID-19 and related expenditures.

The financial and compliance audits had covered the following areas; • Procurement of food relief packages • Safety Health Environment Officers • Repatriation of citizens in Diaspora • Procurement of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) • Wage subsidy • Accommodation.
The performance audit had focused on the preparedness and response of the country towards the COVID-19 pandemic and management of the Relief Fund.

The compliance and performance audit reports have since been issued whilst the financial audit report of the COVID-19 (Coronavirus) Relief Fund is at the final reporting stage.
Mr Chairperson, the implementation of the audit recommendations from the reports by the audited entities will improve efficiencies in Government spending, compliance with rules and regulations and Government preparedness to deal with emergencies.
Mr Chairperson, the previous audit year had interruptions due to upsurge in the number of COVID-19 cases particularly during the months of July and August which forced some staff members to be on extended sick leaves, isolation, quarantines and working on shifts with the auditees staff encountering the same challenges.

These interruptions adversely affected the implementation of the audit plan.
40 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply Mr Chairperson, a dedicated team was set up to audit COVID-19 related procurements.

This diversion of resources negatively affected the audit coverage as many of these audits were not planned for.
The Strategic Direction for 2022/2023 Mr Chairperson, increasing transaction complexities due to dynamic new operational systems being introduced in the public sector require the Office of the Auditor General to continue investing in human capital development to keep abreast with the changing nature of Government business.

Mr Chairperson, Information Systems Audit is a vital cog in the accountability ecosystem of a digitised economy.
As Government business gets transacted on digital platforms, there is a critical need to invest in technologies that will collect and evaluate audit evidence to determine whether Government computer systems safeguard assets, maintain data integrity and allow organisational goals to be achieved effectively while using resources efficiently.

Additional investments are required in digital platforms that will also facilitate remote auditing, and preferably in real time.
Mr Chairperson, the COVID-19 virus continues to mutate giving rise to variants of varying transmission rates and virulence.

Hence it will continue to impact Government spending and the economy at large significantly.

It will thus remain under audit focus in the coming financial year.
2022/2023 BUDGET PROPOSAL that Mr Chairperson, I request the Honourable Committee approve a total Recurrent Budget of Ninety- Two Million, Nine Hundred and Seventy Thousand and Eighty Pula (P92,970,080) for the Financial Year 2022/2023, representing an increase of 4.1 per cent over the approved Recurrent Budget of Eighty-Nine Million, Three Hundred and Forty-One Thousand and Six Hundred and Forty Pula (P89,341,640) for Financial Year 2021/22.
Mr Chairperson, the breakdown of the proposed budget is detailed below: PARENT ACCOUNT 00110 - SALARIES AND ALLOWANCES Mr Chairperson, for salaries and allowances the sum of Seventy-Two Million, Nine Hundred and Ninety-Nine Thousand and Three Hundred Pula (P72,999,300).

This represents 78.5 per cent of the total budget.


PARENT ACCOUNT 00200 - TRAVELLING AND TRANSPORT (INTERNAL) Mr Chairperson, a total of Four Million Sixty-Nine Thousand, Six Hundred and Three Pula (P4,069,603) is requested to cover Internal Travelling and Transport expenditure.

This is an increase of 23 per cent from the previous budget of Three Million, Three Hundred and Four Thousand, Six Hundred and Twenty Pula (P3,304,620).
This will cover some audits that had to be deferred from the previous financial year.

PARENT ACCOUNT 00300 - TRAVELLING AND TRANSPORT (EXTERNAL) Mr Chairperson, the sum of One Million, Two Hundred and Twenty-Five Thousand Pula (P1,225,000) is requested to cover External Travelling and Transport expenditure.

This is a decrease of Two Hundred and Seventy-Five Thousand Pula (P275,000) or 18 per cent from last year’s allocation of One Million, Five Hundred Pula (P1,500 000).
This disbursement would cover the external scrutiny of our missions abroad and facilitate the participation of the Auditor General as a member of the global supreme audit institutions community.

PARENT ACCOUNT EXPENSES AND SUPPLIES 00400 - GENERAL Mr Chairperson, the sum of Three Million, Nine Hundred and Sixty-Nine Thousand Pula (P3,969,000) is requested for General Expenses and Supplies.
This is a decrease of Seventy-Four Thousand, Eight Hundred Pula (P74,800) or 1.8 per cent from Four Million and Forty-Three Thousand, Eight Hundred Pula (P4,043,800) allocated under this vote in the 2021/2022 Financial Year.

PARENT ACCOUNT 0500 - DEPARTMENTAL SERVICES Mr Chairperson, the sum of Five Million, Nine Hundred and Ninety-Four Thousand, Seven Hundred and Twenty Pula (P5,994,720) is requested under the Departmental Services vote.

This sum is unchanged from the 2021/2022 budget allocation.
The funds are to cater for contractual obligations with the landlord.

PARENT ACCOUNT 01200 - TRAINING Mr Chairperson, under Training, the sum of Two Million, Two Hundred and Sixty-Three Thousand, Three Hundred and Sixty Pula (P2,263,360) is requested.
41 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply This is a decrease of One Million, Three Hundred and Thirty-Six Thousand and Six Hundred and Forty Pula (P1,336,640) or 37 per cent from Three Million, Six Hundred Thousand Pula (P3,600,000) allocated under this vote in the financial year 2021/2022.

by the Constitution.

Our Supreme Audit Institution, that is the Auditor General is underfunded, the budget given is inadequate.
As a consequence Mr Chairperson, there has been exodus of skilled personnel.

So the Auditor General is somewhat under skilled.

Mr Chairperson, this concludes my budget proposals for the Office of the Auditor General.

I request that the sum of Ninety-Two Million, Nine Hundred and Seventy Thousand and Eighty Pula (P92,970,080) be approved and stand part of the 2022/2023 Estimates.

I move accordingly.

Thank you Mr Chairperson.

MR KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): Thank you Mr Chairperson.
Mr Chairperson, the Office of the Auditor General is established by Section 124 of the Constitution that there shall be an Auditor General whose office shall be a public office.
The public accounts of Botswana and all officers, courts and authorities of the Government of Botswana shall be audited and reported on by the Auditor General, and for that purpose, the Auditor General or any authorized person on behalf of the Auditor General shall have access to all books, records, reports and other documents relating to those accounts.

This is the provision of Section 124.


I must also emphasise that, under Sub-Section 5, the Constitution provides in the exercise of his or her functions, the Auditor General shall not be subject to the direction or control of any other person or authority.

the Supreme Audit Mr Chairperson, I must also indicate that the Auditor General of the Republic of Botswana as the Supreme Auditing Institution, is a member of the International Organisation of Institutions (INTOSAI).
The INTOSAI emphasises international standards in terms of how Supreme Audit Institutions should operate.

They emphasize among other things, quality of audits as a key principle, credibility of the audits and transparency of the audits.

The responsibility of the Supreme Audit Institutions also talk about the types of audits.

Mr Chairperson, the Minister has alluded to some of the challenges faced by our Supreme Audit Institution.
Some of the challenges that we have identified especially because we deal with this institution as the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), the committee of this Parliament is charged with examining the books of accounts of Government and other agencies of the state.
First is the institutional challenges, in particular, the capacity challenges to fulfil the functions provided The other challenge relating to institutional challenge is the narrow mandate, in the sense that when you look at the provision under Sub-Section 2, especially relating to parastatals, they somewhat constrain the Auditor General to have a say in a lot of things that are happening in the parastatals.
I say this because I have said before in this Parliament that there is need for the Auditor General to audit the liquidation process at BCL, because lots of resources have been lost during that process.

What are some of the results of these institutional or capacity challenges?

The results are that it has impacted on the quality of audits, it has limited the number of audits that the Auditor General can undertake, the number of compliance, financial and performance audits.
There are many performance audits that could be done, but because this important office is under staffed in terms of the number of auditors, we have a challenge there.

The other problem is the delay in submission of accounts, and Honourable Reatile will recall that there was a two-year delay in the submission of accounts of the NPF, and as they usually say, the rest is history, we know what has happened with the NPF.
Up to this point, I am not aware of any submission of the DIS accounts to the Supreme Audit Institution, for the past 14 years.

If they have been recently submitted, I am amenable to the advice, but I know as a matter of fact that we went for more than a decade without the DIS submitting accounts to the Supreme Audit Institution.
Now, let us go to the political challenges; on the political challenges, the most important challenge and the most glaring challenge is the independence of the Supreme Audit Institution which remains under the wing of the Office of the President, that is why we have Honourable Mthimkhulu here requesting money for the Supreme Audit Institution.

The Office remains as part of the public service, the office has suffered undue political influence.

Why am I saying this?


This is contradicting Section 124 (5) somewhat.

I am aware of the provisions of Section 114 in terms of tenurial security of the Auditor General.

Mr Chairperson, what happened in the past was that, the Auditor General was appointed on a short term contract.

In the letter that appointed her, was a 42 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply Clause that she could be transferred or terminated.
This clearly contradicted Section 114 which provides that, the Auditor General shall vacate his or her office when he or she attained the age of 60, or such other age as may be prescribed by Parliament.

In fact, Parliament must prescribe maybe the age of up to 65.

Mr Chairperson, the point I am making is that, that appointment, the letter which was signed by the Permanent Secretary to the President (PSP), contradicted the provisions of Section 114.
The Auditor General must never be employed under the conditions where the Executive has the ability to dismiss such an important officer.

It is very, very important to guarantee the full independence pursuant to the spirit of provisions of Section 124 Subsection 5.

We must secure the tenure of office of the Auditor General.
Mr Chairperson, it is important that the Auditor General must also be appointed in a mechanism that will deprive the Executive of unfettered powers to appoint that officer, because it is a very, very important office.

At times they have adverse findings on the Executive and we do not want the appointing authority to have full powers of appointment without adequate oversight in terms of who is appointed and the competence of the person that is appointed.
The other problem still on the political challenges, is the inability of the Supreme Audit Institution in Botswana to impose their recommendations or enforce their audit findings and recommendations, to make sure that these recommendations of findings are acted upon.

A lot of times there is a delay in implementation or there is complete ignoring of the findings and the recommendations.

There are adverse findings on how COVID-19 was managed and we have heard so many shocking revelations.
Somebody was a tourist here in Botswana and ended up being part of the team that helped manage COVID.

Companies which were registered in the recent past, one contract in the region of millions.

COVID-19 has created COVID-preneurs who became overnight millionaires.

These are adverse findings which we have worries that recommendations will be ignored or would not be implemented.
Especially that the Auditor General seldom appears before Parliamentary Committees to account on the execution of her mandate, including recommendations and findings which have been ignored by the Executive.
I have said in the past that because the Auditor General is a peer to the Permanent Secretaries, the office is packed at the level of the Permanent Secretary, there seems to be a treatment of the Auditor General as just a peer in the sense that sometimes there is a delay in submitting the books of accounts.

Sometimes there is outright like a basic attitude towards the Auditor General because other Permanent Secretaries ba mmona e le molekane wa bone fela.
They think they can do as they please or do things at their own time.

Perhaps you need to pack this institution and empower it to be above Permanent Secretaries, so that Permanent Secretaries actually respond timeously to the Supreme Auditing Institution.

Information and Communications Technology (ICT); the Supreme Auditing Institution needs to embrace ICT and modern technology in conducting audits.

With that, I thank you Mr Chairperson.


ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MS MAKWINJA): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke eme Tona nokeng mo pegong ya gagwe ya Auditor General.

Lephata le fela jaaka la Attorney General’s Chambers, le botlhokwa fela thata.

Ditiro tsa lone di ama lefatshe ka bophara.

Mr Chairperson, re dira thata mo lephateng le, le fa go na le dikgoreletsi tse Matona ba ntseng ba bua ka tsone re di utlwa.

Le tshwana fela le la Attorney General ka gore bodiredi bo tlhaela fela thata.
Fa re bona pego ya ga Tona, o kare 79 ya dikgetsi tsa audit, ke tsone di feditsweng.

Mo go rayang gore it is about 50 per cent ya dikgetsi tse ba lebaganang le tsone.

Go botlhokwa thata fela jaaka Attorney General gore lephata le, le dire tiro ya lone ka bonokopila.

Le na le bommantswitswidi ba e leng gore tiro e, ba a e dira.

Fa ba sa e dire, ke sone se re neng re na le greylisting le backlisting.

Dilo tse re ka bo re di thibetse fa le ne le na le bodiredi jo bo lekaneng ka dikitso le dipalo tsa bone.
Borukutlhi jo, bo dirwa ka matsipa a a rileng, a e leng gore go thata gore Auditor General a ntshe boferefere le tshenyetso-setšhaba e e kanakana.

E dirwa ka maretshwa a e leng gore batho ba Modimo go nna thata go bona gore ke eng re nna le greylisting le blacklisting.

Fa audits di dirwa ka nako, e bile ka mabaka a a tlisiwang kwa go bone, dikgetsi tsa audits di ka bo di le botoka re sa wele mo greylisting le blacklisting.

Ke yone kgwetlho e ke e bonang ya bodiredi.


Ofisi e ya Auditor General e botlhokwa fela mo go maswe.

Corruption e re ntseng re lela ka yone, re utlwa gore annual reports tsa maphata le parastatals, o tlaa fitlhela di nna two, three years di sa isiwe kwa go Auditor General.

Ke tsone dilo tse e leng gore Auditor General fa a na le bodiredi jo bo lekaneng, ba tshwanetse ke go leka ka bojotlhe gore annual reports tse di tle go sukunyololwa fa go na le mathata a a leng teng.
43 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply Ke ba akgole ka audit report ya COVID, e gorogile.

Batho ba ba Modimo fa ba ka bo ba na le ba ba ba thusang, gongwe audits tse dingwe tse di setseng tse e leng gore they are probably 80 or so, di ka bo di setse di ela go fetswa le tsone.

Ke ba lelele ka gore re a itse gore madi ga a yo mme lephata le jaaka fela la Attorney General, le tshwanetse go thusiwa fela thata.
Borukutlhi jwa tshenyetso-setšhaba mo lefatsheng la rona ba kgone gore e re ba dupa dibuka jaana, ba nne le ba ba ka salang morago go bona gore tota mathata a fa kae.

Ke lephata le le tshwanetseng to notify irregularities as they see them on an ongoing basis e bile re lela ka tshenyetso-setšhaba e e kanakana.
Ke bone fa e le gore ba neelwa annual reports… ba tsaya reports tsa internal audit mo maphateng a a farologanyeng fa di tla ka nako e bile di diriwa ka bonokopila jo bo rileng ke auditors tsa departments.

Tota ga ke bone gore mathata a mantsintsi a re nang le one Mr Chairperson gongwe a ka bo a se mantsi.

One ga a ka ke a tlhokafala mme ke akanya gore gongwe a ka ya kwa tlase.
Delay in submission of accounts by maphata a ga Goromente le parastatals, ke dingwe tsa dilo tse e leng gore fa lephata le le ka nonotshiwa, ke akanya gore mathata a a ka fela.

Mr Chairperson, tota ke ne ke sa batle go ya looloo le yone.

Ke report e e tlhamaletseng.

Gongwe go ya pele, re tlanyetlanye dilo tse tsa corruption gore on a day-to- day basis, administration ya Auditor General e ntshe dikgwetlho tse e di lebileng.
E re fa re lebile kabo ya madi jaana, re bo re itse gore e ya go leka go fokotsa mathata a a kanakana a Auditor General e lebaganeng le one.

E tshwanetse go thusiwa ka bojotlhe gore e kgone go thusa tsamaiso e e lolameng ya lefatshe leno mo tirosong ya madi bogolo jang.

Mr Chairperson, ke a leboga ka a le kalo.

Thank you.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Minister.

Honourable Dr Letsholathebe followed by Honourable Mmolotsi.
MINISTER OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (DR LETSHOLATHEBE): Thank you very much Mr Chairperson for the opportunity.

Ke go leboge go mpha tshono le nna ya gore ke akgele ke eme nokeng Mokaulengwe Mothusa Tona Mthimkhulu mo pegong e a e beileng mo boemong jwa Minister.

Ke mo eme nokeng.

Re bua ka lephata le le botlhokwa fela thata.

Re le bantsi fa, re nna re ngongorega ka dikgang tsa implementation, go sa dirisa madi a Puso sentle le ditirelo tsa Puso tse dingwe.
Lephata le Mr Chairperson, le di goga kwa pele go ka re thusa gore re kgone go tokafatsa diemo tsa go nna jalo.

Tona, ke bete se molangwana.

Sengwe se se dirang gore ke nne bete se molangwana ke gore go lebega madi a a yang go thusa lephata le a ile kwa tlase.

Kgangkgolo e le tsa travelling le training.


Mr Chairperson, sengwe se re tshwanetseng go se dira gore tshenyetso-setšhaba le wastage e ntsi e e diragalelang lefatshe leno ka bophara di ye kwa tlase, Auditor General o tshwanetse gore gongwe le gongwe leitlho la gagwe le bo le le teng.

Fa ke lebeletse pego e, go supafala madi a eng a nna a fokotsega ngwaga le ngwaga.

Se se ka dira gore tiro ya gagwe e se ka ya nna motlhofo.
Dikgang tsa training, lefatshe le le fetoga ka bofefo jo bo feteletseng, mme ka jalo, re tshwanetse gore re nne re tsaya kgang ya training very seriously.

Mr Chairperson, kang e ya go ka dirisa madi mo Auditor General e botlhokwa.

Let us spend a few more millions mo Auditor General to save billions tse di nang le go ka latlhegela Puso.

Fa re ka kgona go dirisa madi a a kwa godimonyana, re ka kgona go boloka madi a mantsintsi a a latlhegelang Puso.

Go ka re isa golo gongwe.


Kgang e nngwe e e leng gore Auditor General needs also to be supported, ke gore go lebelelwe.

Le yone the Public Act ya 2012, fa e le gore re tlhokana le gore re e lebalebe, re neele Auditor General dithata tse di kwa godimo gore a kgone go re thusa, let us do that.

Apart from kgang ya gore ke feel gore ba na le go tlhaelelwa ke madi, ditlamelo le the human resource, o fitlhela e le gore ga ba tseye Auditor General tsia.
Ba bangwe ba leka to interfere le dipatlisiso tsa ga Auditor General.

Batho ba ba ntseng jalo ba tshwanetse ba gagamatswe diphogwana, ba ba sa reetseng kana ba sa thuse Auditor General sentle, ba leka go ka interfere le dipatlisiso tsa gagwe.

Ke sengwe se re tshwanetseng gore re se lebalebe Mr Chairperson.
Sengwe se ke batlang go feta ka ga sone, ke gore kana Auditor General re le bantsi re mmona jaaka motho yo o dingalo yo e leng gore gantsi o tla ka dikgang tsa financial audit, gore fa o bona a tsena ka dibuka tse dikimakima o tsile go re lebaleba gore re sentse eng.

Sengwe se ba se dirang se ke ba phophothang legetla, ke kgang ya performance audit.

Fa re ka e lebaleba 44 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply fela sentle, sengwe re ka se bona.
Fa re ka kgona go ba support gore performance audit e ba e dirang e kgone gore e ye kwa godimo, re ka kgona go bona gore lefatshe la rona le a tokafala.

Ba bangwe they edit documents electronically ka gore ba itse go dirisa maranyane mme go felele e le gore ba tsietsa Auditor General.

Let us look at that Mr Chairperson.


Sengwe se nkutlwisang botlhoko ke gore e ne ya re ke leba report ya bone ga lebega e le gore there were only two reports tse ba di ntshitseng tse ba kgonneng go di fetsa malebang le kgang ya performance audit.

Se se supa gore tota sengwe se tlhokana le go dirwa golo foo Mr Chairperson.

Sengwe se ke batlang re se lebelela Tona ke kgang ya auditing of parastatals.
Mo report e go supafala gore some statutory bodies and state-owned enterprises o kare di itirela jaaka di batla mo e leng gore independent auditors ke bone ba ba dirisiwang and ba dirwa ke boards e le bone ba ba ba batlang.

Gongwe fa Auditor General a ka tsenya letsogo go fetanyana gore gongwe a kgone gore a fiwe dithata tsa gore e nne ene yo o lebalebang gore ke bomang ba e leng gore ba ya to audit gore dipego tsa gagwe di kgone go goroga ka bonako.
Sengwe se e leng gore Auditor General o lela ka sone gone foo ke gore le reports tse gotweng di tlaabo di dirilwe koo, ga di goroge ka nako.

Nako e di yang go goroga kwa go ene, a lot of things have changed, batho ba transferred.

Ke re nnyaa Mr Chairperson, se se ka dira gore re felele re tsaya gore Auditor General ga a na meno mme batho ba Modimo ba leka.

Sengwe se ke tlhokanang le gore re se lebelele ke gore we need to improve on the human resource kwa Auditor General.
Go nne le scientists and engineers who can provide technical advice and a lot of issues tse di gone koo.

Dikgang di tshwana le tsa bo specialised audit and forensic, di lebelelwe, go tsenelelwe fela thata.

Lefatshe le a fetoga, le rona re nna re bua ka digitilisation, one of the priorities tsa ga Tautona gore re tseye kgang ya digitilisation re e ise kwa godimo.

Jaaka go ntse jalo, ba tshwanetse gore le bone ba nne capacitated.

Ba rutuntshiwe in the areas tsa dikgang tsa maranyane.
Re batla go bona le bone ba mekamekana ba dira jaaka mafatshe a mangwe a dira, re kgone go bona ba dira the remote auditing, or e-auditing, ba kgone go nna le access fa ba na le serial numbers tsa computers tsa rona ba bone le information e ba e batlang.

E seng mo o fitlheleng ba batla information ba kgona go nna three months otlhe ba eme golo go le gongwefela ba letetse information go tswa golo gongwe.

Let us give them that ba bone gore ba mekamekana le boranyane jo bo leng teng gompieno.
Policy, Research and Development; kgang nngwe e ke ratang go e bua thata mo Palamenteng ke dipatlisiso gore a re ba thuseng ka kgang ya go nna jalo.

Ba berekisanye le bo Botswana Institute for Development Policy Analysis (BIDPA) le institutions of higher learning gore ba batlisise gore fa ba audit policies tse ba di lebeletseng ba bo ba kgonne to research ka ga tsone le go fetisisa.

Ba kgone go di itse go feta rona ba e le eng gore re a di tsamaisa ka kwano.
Ka se ba ka kgona gore ba re thuse sentle ba re neele direction.

Sengwe se ke nang le go utlwa botlhoko ka sone ke kgang ya monitoring and evaluation gore a mme bana le capacity ya gore fa ba re file these reports ba kgona go boa ba tla ba sala morago, ba tla ba bona gore a mme se ba se gakolotseng se a dirwa.

Tota fa go sa nna jalo, batho ba Modimo ba tlaa ngakalala fela, reports di tswa mme go sa diragale sepe.
A le rona re ikiteye ka thupana ba rotlhe; badirelapuso le rona baeteledipele ba sepolotiki, re itse gore reports tse di direlwa gore re kgone gore re tseye informed decisions.

Fa reports di dirwa re sa di bale, re sa di lebelele, re tlile go felela re ntse re dira diphoso tse re ntseng re di dira.

Se se ka re thusa fa re ka di lebelela gore re tlhabolole go ya kwa pele.

I appreciate auditors tse di leng mo ministries tsa rona.
A re di neeleng dithata tse e leng gore they can at any given point see boeteledipele jwa ministries.

E se ka ya nna o fitlhela batho ba Modimo ba internal audits morago ga dingwaga tse di fetileng gotwe, “nnyaa mme kana ba kile ba lebaleba kgang e ba leka go gakolola.” O fitlhela e le gore Minister ga a itse ka kgang ya go nna jalo, Permanent Secretary gongwe le ene a sa itse.

Dilo tsa go nna jalo ga di ka ke tsa re thusa ka sepe.
We need to take care of the thebes, the Pulas will take care of themselves.

Auditor General will help us to do that.

Re tlhokana le gore re somarele bonnyennyane jo re nang le jone gore re kgone go thusa Batswana, re kgone go bona gore bus rank e e kwa Tati East madi fa a somarelesegile sentle ba ka kgona go e bona.

Dikgang tsa bo police station kwa Matsiloje, if we take care of the thebes we will save money to help those people.
Le dikgang fela tse dintsi tsa service delivery, fa o ka lebelela kgang e ke neng ke bua ka yone ya performance audit, e ka re thusa gore service delivery 45 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply ya rona Batswana ba kgone go bona dithuso tse di maleba.

Batswana ba kgone go bona value for money.

Ke ka jalo ke re, I really support this.


I really want to emphasise mo kgannyeng ya gore, let us relook at this Tona Mthimkhulu, a re lebelele kgang e, re bone gore we cannot facilitate these people more.

Re ba thuse in the sense of human resource, finance, re kgone go ba thusa gore ba dire tiro ya bone sentle.

Sengwe se ke batlang gore ke se ba lebogele ke the way there are thorough.
I have been sitting on this chair seeing some of their reports, o bona gore ke batho ba dira tiro, even though ba na le the challenges, ba tsentse moko mo nameng.

Ke re they should not give up, they should keep up doing that without fear or favour.

Ke bangwe batho ba e leng gore ga ba a tshwanela go tshaba.

Fa e le gore mongwe ga a dire sengwe sentle a go buiwe, go baakanngwe.
Ke re ka se Tona, I want to support pego ya gago, mme ke re fa go kgonagala re oketse madi a gore Auditor General a kgone go dira tiro ya gagwe sentle.

Thank you Mr Chairperson for the opportunity.

Ke a go leboga sir.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank Honourable Mmolotsi.

you Minister.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ne a kopile gore go tlaa tsena nna Mr Chairperson.

MR MMOLOTSI: Ee rra re dumalane Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Reatile.

MR REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): Thank you Honourable Chairperson.
Ke re le nna ke eme fa ke buise kopo ya madi a ga Honourable Mthimkhulu, e e leng gore ke ya Lephata la Auditor General.

Ke dumela gore o re boleletse gore o ikaelela gore ngwaga o o tlang o wa 2022/2023, e bo e le gore jaanong o ya go dira jang ka disheleng tse a di kopang.
Ke bo ke re Honourable Chairperson, go ka nna botoka, e bile go ka nna molemo gore re itsese Honourable Minister gore, kana mme o tshwanetse o itse gore dikgang tse dingwe di ka bo e le gore re tswa kwa e le gore ofisi e dira ka matsetseleko.

Office ya DPP e dira ka matsetseleko.


Ke baya e le sekai fela gore, e ne ya re kwa Komiting ya gago ya Public Accounts ka gore le yone e ka fa tlase ga gago o le Honourable Mthimkhulu, ra fitlhela e le gore o hirile diofisi tse pedi tse ka dikonteraka, o saenne, mme Constitution e sena that provision.
Jaanong ke ne ke re ga gona jaaka e ka re Honourable Mthimkhulu e le wena o tshwanetseng to guard jealously ka tsamaiso e e leng gore ke ya Constitution ya lefatshe la Botswana, ra ba ra bona violation ya Constitution emerging kwa ofising ya gago.

Re kopa o netefatse gore ka metlha le ka dipaka tsotlhe o beile seemo se leitlho, go tsweng fa go ya pele.
Ka gore kgang e o a itse gore re ne ra felela Permanent Secretary to the President (PSP) wa nako eo re mmiditse, re batla go botsa gore mme gone fa o tlaa hira Auditor General ka kgang ya Public Service Act, what informed you, ka gore he/ she is not covered by the Public Service Act, he/she is housed under the Constitution of the Republic.
Jaanong ke bo ke re e Mr Chairperson, ke ne ke feta e le gore ke ne ke tsibosa fela Tona gore a nne lefufa, a bo a netefatse gore Constitution e a tlotlwa mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Jaanong e nngwe e ke neng ke batla gore re tle re e buise Honourable Minister ke kgang ya gore, lephata la gago le botlhokwatlhokwa thata, ke ne ke eleditse gore gongwe e kare fa o tsena fa o bo o re bolelela gore, bagaetsho le o bona ke kopa madi a a kana a, ke tlhaelela kgakala mo bodireding.
O lebile gore o tshwanetse to cover dikhansele le ministries tsotlhe tsa lefatshe la Botswana, le foreign missions tsa rona tsotlhe kwa di leng teng di ntse di batla ofisi ya gago, gore re itse gore a madi a a kopiwang mo go Honourable Serame, a a ntshang ngwaga le ngwaga, a a tlaabo a le well accounted for.

Re ka itse gore accountability ya teng e tsamaile sentle fela ka ofisi ya gago.

Mme fa e tlhotsa, e tlhaela bodiredi, ga gona ka fa re ka itseng gore a dilo di tsamaya sentle teng.
Ke tshwanetse gape ke supe Honourable Chairperson gore, kana batho ba ofisi ya ga Auditor General ba leka ka tsotlhe tse ba nang natso.

Fa ke bua jaana ke re dikhansele, o ya go fitlhela e le gore dikhansele dingwe di saletse kwa morago ka dingwaga tse pedi.

Ke gore nako ya fa jaanong ba ya to pick…ba ba neng ba le foo ba ba ka bong ba lebisitswe...e bile ba on pension, bangwe have retired, bangwe ba sule.

Jaanong audit e tshwanetse e goroge ka nako.


Ga gona mosola wa gore audit e ye to pick dikgang tse e leng gore ga gona ope yo o ka di arabelang, ka gore e tlaabo e le gore nako ya fa ba ya go tsena, audit e e ntshiwang foo yo e leng gore jaanong ke Accounting Officer foo a re, “ke ne ke seyo, le a itse gore ke gorogile ka letsatsi la gore,” mme ba ba neng ba dira jaana motho wa teng e bile ke yo o saleng a tlogetse tiro ka bogodi, yo resigned, yo o kwa boketekete.
Jaanong Puso e latlhegelwa ke madi a mantsintsi ka go tlhoka go dira audit ka nako Honourable Minister.
Jaanong netefatsa gore ka ditsela tsotlhe fa madi a latlhega… 46 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply rona re leba wena, gore ke wena o sa ikalelang to audit ka nako ka ke wena o tshwanetseng go bona gore you capacitate lephata le la gago ka sengwe le sengwe se se tshwanetseng, gore e tle e re fa audits di dirwa, ngwaga wa madi o fela, e bo e le gore the financials fa di tla di goroga di tla di le mmogo, ka gore le bone ba kgonne to audit.
Bogolo ba go bolelele gore re paletswe ke to audit Khansele ya kwa Southern kana ya Jwaneng ka mabaka a gore financials tsa bone ga di a wela Minister.

Ke yone kgwetlho e re nang le yone.

Jaanong Matona ba ba maleba ba tshwanetse ba emele dilo tse ka dinao.
Kgang e nngwe e e leng gore ga re ka ke ra tlhoka go go e bolelela Honourable Minister ka ke itse gore ba ofisi ya ga Auditor General ga ba na go go e bolelela, fa ba na le rona ka re bereka le bone thata, frustration ya gore fa ba tsena kwa ministry mongwe ba re they are auditing, e le gore jaanong they are just…(Inaudible)… in, gore ba tle ba bone gore ba tlhola lephata la gore, Director kana babereki ba lephata leo ba a gana fela ba re, rona ga re ka ke ra le neela dibuka ka gore ga le ise le kwale.
E le gore ba tsena e le ba ofisi ya ga Auditor General e e letlelelwang ke Constitution ya lefatshe la Botswana.

Jaanong leka go ruta bo Minister ba gago ba ye go ruta badiredi ba bone gore ofisi ya ga Auditor General e a tlotlwa.

Ga se mo go nang le polotiki fa e tsena.

Fa ba tsena ba dira tiro ya bone.

Ke gore o kgona go bona gore Auditor Generals tse di fetileng ba ne ba tlotliwa ke bogogi jwa nako eo.
Jaanong o kare bogogi jwa gompieno go na le kgang ya power play fela e e serious mo lefatsheng la Botswana, mo go rayang gore golo mo jaanong ke sone se o bonang tshenyo e le kanakana, e ropame, e bile e gaisa le tlou e kotame.

Ka mabaka a gore diofisi tse re tshwanetse to accord them respect, re tswelela re ntse re netefatsa gore ga re ka ke ra ba neela se ba se tlhokang.

Ke gantsi ba ntse ba re bolelela gore fa re ne ra nna le challenge, ra felela re ya go bona dithuso morago ga beke.
Potso ke gore fa re santse re kganela ofisi ya ga Auditor General go dira tiro ya yone, re ipaakanya eng, re gana go ba neela dibuka ka fa Constitution e batlang ka teng?

Jaanong o kgona go bona tota Mr Minister gore go na le bothata mo maphateng a le mantsi.

Dikgang tse ke tlaa di bua ka gore ke di bua jaana e le gore e ke e gakologelwang ba ne ba re go diragetse jalo kwa Ministry of Youth.

Jaanong ke batla gore e nne kgang e o tlaa netefatsang gore ke dilo tse o di latedisang.
O bo o ba bolelele gore batho ba ba dirang jalo ba kgwe mathe ba bo ba itshware khubu, ba se ka ba tlhola ba bo ba lekeletsa to challenge ofisi ya ga Auditor General fa e dira tiro ya yone, ka fa ba dira ditiro tsa bone tse ba di hiretsweng, Auditor General ga a ba kgopakgopetse.

Se e leng gore Auditor General o se phakelela kwa tirong ke go tla go bona gore a madi a Mma Serame a ntshitseng a a diriseditswe dikgang tse di kopetsweng sone seo.
Jaanong ke sone se tota ke neng ke batla go se gatelele Honourable Minister, gore o netefatse gore dikgang tse o di tsaya tsia.

O bo o bone gore tota o sireletsa ofisi ya gago e ya ga Auditor General ka sengwe le sengwe se se e tshwanetseng.
Kgang e nngwe e ke neng ke batla gore o tle e re fa le di atlhaatlha Tona, le ba ofisi ya gago, ke ya gore performance audits di a dirwa, mme fa di dirwa, Palamente ka bo yone ga e na nako ya gore e simolole e dire performance audits, ka gore nako ya yone ya to examine dibuka tsa PAC tsa ngwaga, e khutshwane.
Performance audits di tlaabo di dirilwe, jaanong go tswa foo ga re kgone go bona gore a mme gaps tse di supilweng ke Auditor General, a ba setse ba simolotse go bereka mo go tsone ba offices tse performance audit e dirilweng teng.
Jaanong dilo tse le leke go di fatlhafatlha, le bone gore mme re ka siamelwa ke eng ka gore ga gona mosola wa gore performance audit e dirwe, go tswa foo re bo re palelwa ke gore re le Komiti ya PAC, re nne le nako e e tlamang go ya go bona gore batho ba go nna jalo ba arabela dikgang tse di ntseng jalo, tse di nopotsweng ke Auditor General.
Gongwe e bile o santse o ka dira gore fa e le gore performance audit e ntse jaana, ke dumela gore ga go itse sepe Tona, go na le batho ba o kgonang go ba dira jaaka ba Local Government, ba tsaya batho ba e leng gore ke ba ba fetileng, e bo e nna yone komiti.
Gongwe performance audit o santse o ka tsaya tshwetso ya gore jaanong o batla go di tseela batho ba e leng gore are experienced, ba fetile, ba bo ba simolola go nna ba tlela tsone fela to examine maphata gore go se ka ga nna le gap gope ya gore dithoto tsa setšhaba ka fa re di neetsweng ka teng, ga re a di tshwara ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng.
E bo e le gore Mapalamente, bo Auditor General le bo Accountant General ba ba fetileng ba na le experience, fa o aga team ya teng gore e simolole e bone gore performance audits le specialised audits a di dirilwe sentle, have they been observed, a go tsweng ba ba tshwanetseng gore ba bo ba baakantse tse di latelang, ba dirile.

Ke gakologelwa gore go ne ga nna le performance audit ya Omang wa dikgomo.

Ga e ise e re le fa e le ka letsatsi lepe, ga ke bue ka mo ga ear tags, ke bua ka Omang yo o neng a jesiwa.
Ga e ise e re le fa e le ka letsatsi 47 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply lepe go nne le nako e go neng ga nna le gore komiti e bitse ba ministry, e tle go ba bontsha gaps tse Auditor General a setseng a di supile.
Jaanong ke tsone dikai tse ke lekang to demonstrate mme ke dikgang tse dintsintsi fela tse ke santseng ke ka bua ka performance audits tse di sa felelang interrogating Accounting Officers mo dikgannyeng tse ba Auditor General ba neng ba di bone.
Ke ne ke ntsha fela e le mogopolo gore fa e le gore go molemo go ka nna molemo, fa go le bosula go ka nna bosula gore o ka dirisa ba ba fetileng go netefatsa gore dikgang tse nako le nako di bo di tsewa ka manontlhotlho, di ya go fitlha kwa di tshwanetseng go fitlha teng Tona.

Gongwe ke buile ka bokhutshwane e bile o ntsere ka tlhamalalo.

Gongwe ga o a nkutlwa le fa e le, ga o dumalane le nna mme go ntse go a amogelesega motlotlegi.

Ke a leboga.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Reatile.


Honourable Modukanele.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MODUKANELE): Ke a leboga Modulasetilo wa Komiti e e tlotlegang.

Tla ke simolole fela ka go supa gore ke ema nokeng Rre Mthimkhulu mo pegong e a e re beileng pele.

Ke tlaa siana ka bokhutshwanyane Modulasetilo, ke re kgang e tona e ke tsayang gore Ntlo e e a e dumalana, ke gore Ofisi ya ga Auditor General needs to be capacitated both in terms of quality and quantity.
Re tshwanetse go bona gore fa go kgonagalang teng, re dira jang go thusa ofisi e ka tse di maleba Modulasetilo.

Re ka se ka ra bua ka Reset Agenda kana tlhomontšha, re bo re tswelela doing things fela ka fa re tlwaetseng ka teng.

It cannot be business as usual Mr Chairperson.

Re tshwanetse go simolola go leba dilo ka leitlho le lengwe, le le rileng.

Ke batla go bua jaana Mr Chairperson, tota mme gone maikaelelo a audit nngwe le nngwe ke eng?
Kana audit nngwe le nngwe ga re e direle go tomola ope ka lesolegolo kana to punish anyone.

Ke go leka go bona gore fa go kgonagalang teng, re dira gore go tle go nne le bogakolodi gore dilo di dirwe ka tsela e e maleba.

It should be preventative in nature.

Re bone gore dilo ga di dirwe ka tsela ya bohahalele ka tsela epe Modulasetilo.
Ke gone fa ke reng go botlhokwa gore auditor; audits tsa rona di nne di ntse di le fa pelenyana, ba siana fa pele ga maphata go bona gore ba a thusa, ba a gakolola gore wastage e go tlholwang go buiwa ka yone ya bo 37 per cent, ga e nne teng Mr Chairperson.

Fa e sa nne teng, ke gone fa ditirelo tse dingwe tse gompieno re tlhaelang 48 gore re di dire, di bo di ka diragadiwa Mr Chairperson, di tshwana le tse ke letseng ke bua ka tsone tsa Kgaolo ya Lerala-Maunatlala le tse dingwe mo dikgaolong tse dingwe.
Sengwe se ke batlang go se bua ke gore fa re bua ka capacitation of the Auditor General’s Office, re ka bona gore dilo tse dintsi tse gongwe di kwa thoko di bosula, ga di diragale.

Speaking where I am seated Mr Chairperson, gone fa Local Government, fa le utlwa ke bua ka capacity ya ofisi e, ke ipotsa gore dikhansele di le kanakana jaaka mongwe a sa tswa go bua, re tshwanetse go dira ka bojotlhe go bona gore they are being audited and ka nako.
Re dire performance audits go bona gore dilo tse dingwe ga di dirwe ka tshokamo.

Se sengwe se setona ke gore fa go nnileng le bohahalele teng, we hold those responsible accountable.

Go botlhokwa Modulasetilo, it cannot be business as usual.

It cannot be an audit for the sake of auditing.

Re tlaabo e le gore jaanong re senya madi a ga Goromente by so doing re siana re netla.
Re tshwanetse gore fa go nnileng le bohahalele teng, those responsible are held accountable and there are consequences to their actions.

Jaanong ke supe jalo ke re Mr Chairperson, fa re kgonang teng, a re boneng gore dilo tseo di a diragala.

Gompieno we are in the era of digitisation, re tshwanetse gore re dirise maranyane go bona gore re dira dilo ka nako mme a e re fa reports di gorogile, Auditor General a dirile ya gagwe le bana ba gagwe, they should be acted upon.
Di se ka tsa etsa fale fa go neng go gotwe reports di phutha lerole fela.

Selo se setonatona Mr Chairperson, ke gore fa re bua ka mindset change, ke batla go boelela kgang e ke neng ke e bua le maabane gore this mindset change should talk to us in the context ya gore re dira eng se se maleba ka pharologano gore we deliver services to Motswana ka tsela e e farologaneng, re kgona to deliver those services in time and di le quality.
Dilo tse tsotlhe ke gone fa ke reng le mo audit fa re e dira, re tshwanetse gore gompieno re e dire ka pharologano go na le jaaka re ne re ntse re dira 10 years ago Mr Chairperson.

Ka mafoko one a, ke batla go bua gore fa e le gore we can capacitate Auditor General, kana reports tse di tlaa goroga ka nako, le bone ba di dira ka nako mme e le tsa quality e e maleba Mr Chairperson.
Ke batla go gatelela mafoko ao gore go botlhokwatlhokwa gore fa report e gorogile, e bo e le understandable, simple and actionable.

Dilo tse di botlhokwa fa re Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply tswelela kwa pele ka gore ke gone fela fa re ka kgonang tse dingwe, tse go lebegang bangwe ba nna ba siana kwa pele ga rona.
Issues tse di tshwanang le tse Mme Mma Makwinja a neng a bua ka tsone tsa corruption, kana corruption e e ka kgona gore re e nkgankge, re bo re bone gore fa go nkga sengwe ka nako.

E bo e le gore fa go kgonagalang teng Mr Chairperson, re bo re ka emisa ditiro tsa go nna jalo.
Fa re di emisitse jaaka ke sa tswa go bua, tsone dithebenyana tseo tse gongwe di ka tsenang ka mosima kana motlhobodika, di bo di ya go dira tiro, di bona gore jaaka nna le Rraagwe Nkamo re tlhola re lela ka dipatela, gongwe di bo di ka bona tsela, go na le gore di tsene mo dipateng tse di neng di sa tshwanela go tsena mo go tsone, di bo di ka felela di thusa Batswana kwa mafelong one ao Mr Chairperson.

Ka one mafoko a, ke batla go tshepisa Minister gore ke mongwe wa ba ba go emang nokeng rra.
A Palamente e go rebolele madi ao mme fa go ne go kgonagala, re a itse gore re mo leshekereng madi ga a yo, but in the future, a e re fa seemo se tokafala, re bone gore o ka thusiwa jang Minister to capacitate this office so that e dire tiro ya yone ka bokgabane, gape e re thuse to manage madi a Batswana.

Ka one ao Modulasetilo, ke a leboga.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank Honourable Ambassador Kapinga.

you Minister.

MR KAPINGA: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I do not intend to speak on this issue.
MR CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you.

It looks like I have to call upon you Honourable Minister to reply to the debate.

ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Ke simolole fela ke re ke leboga bakaulengwe botlhe, Mapalamente a a tlotlegang ba ba akgetseng mo kgannyeng e ya Auditor General (AG) le ba ba sa akgelang, ka ke lemoga fa ba lemoga botlhokwa jwa ofisi e ya AG le botlhokwa jwa tiro e e leng gore e dirwa ke AG.
Ke simolole fela ke bue ka mafoko a a neng a buiwa ke Honourable Dithapelo Keorapetse, a bua ka gore kana AG, Molaomotheo o supa fa a le independent, mme ntswa go supafala e kare ga a independent ka gore ke fa re tlile go mo kopela madi.

E bile gape a bo a boa a umaka le ka fa ofisi ya gagwe kana ka fa konteraka ya gagwe e dirilweng ka teng.

Kakgelo e e ne ya boa gape e tswa le ka Honourable Reatile, a supa e kare o a ngongorega ka independence le tenure of office ya ga AG.
Nnyaa, bakaulengwe, tota Molaomotheo o tlhamaletse, jaaka mokaulengwe a ne a bua fale ka Section 124 gore AG o bereka jang, e bile is appointed jang, le yone section e e buang ka the tenure of office ya 114.

Ke bue fela gore, jaaka Molaomotheo o buang, fa AG a sena to be appointed, what takes precedence, se e leng gore se a lebelelwa go feta dilo tse tsotlhe, ke Molaomotheo.
Bakwadi ba makwalo ka re ne re kwala re batla re akantse dilo dingwe, mme at the end of the day go lebelelwa Molaomotheo gore o tsamaya jang.

E bile gape fa re tla e le gore go na le kgang nngwe e e ka tswang e tlhagoga, at the end of the day selo se se lebelelwang ga se mekwalo epe gape e e ka fa thoko, go lebelelwa mokwalo fela o motona o e leng gore ke one Molaomotheo wa Botswana.

Le se ka la etsaetsega, la tsietsega bakaulengwe ka the independence ya AG le ka the tenure of office ya ga AG.
As set in ka Molaomotheo wa Botswana, go ntse fela jalo, go tlhamaletse, e bile ga go a tshwanela gore ope a tsietsege ka tsone.

Ka moo ke re, e bile ... MR MMOLOTSI: Clarification.

Thank you very much Mr Chairperson, thank you Minister.

Ke ne ke re mme gongwe Minister, ke eng dikwalo fa di kwalwa, di sa kwalwe go lebilwe gore Constitution ya reng gona le gore Constitution e lebe kwa, lekwalo le bo le leba the other direction?
Fa re le kwa PAC we picked up gore batho ba e leng gore Constitution ya re ba tlaa ntshiwa ke dingwaga, jaanong mme lekwalo la appointment lone ga le supe jalo.

Why is it like that?

MR MTHIMKHULU: Tota ga ke batle go tsena mo makwalong a a kwadilweng ka gore ga ke ise ke a bone.

Fa ke go bolelela gore fa e le gore there is any doubt ka fa e leng gore lona le itshupa le ipelaetsa ka teng, re tshwanetse re itse gore the Constitution is the one taking precedence.
Ke gore whatever we do, cannot detract from what the Constitution stipulates, from what is provided for by the Constitution.

We should all adhere to it.

Rotlhe re tshwanetse gore se re se dirang, re dire gore it is in conformity with what is stipulated in the Constitution.

Ke ne ke le tshepisa gore once the AG has been appointed, and she knows she has been appointed in accordance with the law, once she is in that office, then she knows.
Le ene kwa a leng teng, ke dumela gore o le tlhaloseditse gore o a itse gore the Constitution takes precedence over everything else.

Jaanong ke yone fela e ke neng ke batla go e tlhamalatsa mo go lona.

Re se ka ra e dira kgang ka gore rotlhe re a itse.


Nna le wena Motlotlegi Rre Mmolotsi, re a itse gore le fa re ka tswa 49 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply re e dira kgang, mme go tlhamaletse, dilo di ntse jaana, e bile some of these matters have been litigated before kwa courts tsa Botswana, tsa mafatshe a sele, mo go reng we know precedence is out there ya gore how we should treat them.
Ke tswelele gape ke bue gore Motlotlegi Keorapetse o buile gape a tsosa kgang ya gore kana there is a problem ya limitation ya the AG on the extent of what she can do in relation to parastatals.

If that limitation is embedded in the law, mo Molaomotheong wa lefatshe la Botswana, jaaka re ne re bua fela ka ene a le an independent office, a na le security of tenure, then there is very little we can do by talking here about it, unless we take steps.
We are having the Constitutional Review e e tlang ya lefatshe la Botswana e e leng gore it has been set in Motion, of course it is being preceded ke the consultative process ya teng ya the Commission of Inquiry into the review of Constitution.
When it comes, you will raise those issues at the appropriate time, but for now, there is very little that we can do but adhere to the letter of the law as is now, o e leng gore ke Molaomotheo wa Botswana jaaka le batla re o obamela in other respects, re tlaa tswelela re ntse re o obamela.

I can assure you that the AG is doing the best she can to audit tsone dibuka tsa Government institutions and parastatals.
I was with her the day before yesterday, and she assured me, and I can assure this House that she is doing everything in her power to ensure that these things are done.

As for uncovering corruption jaaka Motlotlegi Mma Makwinja a bua, and of course some of the sentiments that were raised by Honourable Rre Keorapetse, ke ka bua fela gore reports have been made by the AG, go supa gore ga a ise a kgopakgopediwe gope.
Motlotlegi Rre Keorapetse o ne a bua ka findings tsa the audit process e e neng e dirwa in respect of COVID-19 relief funds, a bua gore that process has uncovered a lot of irregularities or misappropriation of public funds.

O ne a bua gore it has shown from that process, from that report that some COVID-19 premiers have overnight become like millionaires.
Ke re golo mo go supa gore the AG o ne a dira tiro ya gagwe ka matsetseleko, e bile a sa tshosediwe ke ope if she made those findings when we were at the height of a pandemic and it was also a State of Emergency (SoE) mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

These too go supa gore despite that, there was confidence in that office such that she was allowed to do her job, her responsibility without fear of anyone.
The report that some of us are making a lot of noise about, we should be commending that office of the Auditor General gore she is doing a brilliant job.

You should be commending the leadership of this country that it allowed the AG to do her job even during SoE.

MR MOSWAANE: Clarification Mr Chairperson.

Thank you so much Honourable Minister.

Go na le nngwe report kwa PAC e e supang gore go ne ga rekwa dingwe ditante tse di belaetsegang e le tsa Camp Dubai mme di rekwa ke Office of the President (OP).
Mo go rekweng ga tsone, di bo di nyelela gone foo go ya ka report ya ga AG, a bo e bile gotwe di neetswe balaodi, ga go itsiwe gore di ile kae.

A kgang e Minister, o ka tswa o e gakologelwa, kana fa o sa e gakologelwe, ke tle ke go romelele pampitshana ya teng o tlhotlhomise gore naare ditante di ka rekwa di le disha e bo e bile di nyelela, tse go belaetsegang e ne e le tsone tse di dirisiwang kwa Camp Dubai mo BDP Congress.

Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Gakere o a bona gore jaanong o bo o simolola o tsenya dilo tse di seyong fa pele ga rona, insinuating gore things were diverted, they were stolen from the Government?

MR MOSWAANE: No, ke report fela, ga se nna.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Ga go nne sentle, report eo ga ke ise ke e bone, o tlaa e tlisa kwa go nna.

Fela mme ga go nne sentle gore when we are discussing this issue ya AG and how it should be acted upon, wena o bo o tlisa dilo tse di kwa thoko.
Why did you not go and report that matter to the police so that action can be taken... MR MOSWAANE: Ka re report ya Auditor General, le ne le gana go e araba.

MR MTHIMKHULU: I those who have misappropriated things… Anyway, ga gore sepe Mr Moswaane.

think HONOURABLE MEMBER: Minister, o se ka wa araba gatwe.

Batswana ga ba batle gatwe.

MR MOSWAANE: A ko o iketle Mma Monnakgotla, wa itse.

Just keep quiet once fela o itumedise Mr Monnakgotla wa itse.

O a borega the way you behave ka teng.

Thank you.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are out of order Mr Moswaane.

O ka se ke o... MR MTHIMKHULU: O a itse Rre Moswaane gore o dule mo tseleng fela thata.

Ke ne ke re ke a mo araba, o nthusitse Rre Morwaeng, gore ke se ka ka tswa mo tseleng jaaka ene.

50 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply Rre Modukanele, ke dumalana le wena gore the Auditor General must be capacitated.
As much as we are sitting here, we wish gore re tshwanetse to capacitate, jaaka go builwe gore there is a problem ya kwa dikhanseleng kana other agencies tsa Government tse di diegang ka this information that is required by the Auditor General to report.

When I spoke to her, she assured me that there have been a lot of progress.

In fact, quite number of audits have been completed.

What is awaiting is the actual printing of them or the release of those audit reports by the Auditor General.
So, le tlaa di bona mo malatsing a a latelang di tla ka mmalwa.

O ntsholofeditse gore a lot of them have been done, go setse fela the production of those reports.

Di tshwanetse di dirwe.

Re dumela gore go ya kwa pele, selelo sa rona se re neng re lela ka sone gore audit reports di a diega, bangwe ba ne ba bua gore di tla morago ga lebaka, batho ba setse ba dule mo ditirong.
It will be addressed because they have been able to catch up and again, mo kopong e re e dirang e, there is where they want now to digitise and automate their processes so that they become even more quicker and faster to be released.

E nngwe gape e ne e le ya ga mokaulengwe, ke dumela gore ke Rre Reatile, a re people were denied access kwa Ministry of Youth.
I do not want to talk for the Ministry of Youth, but ke dumela gore Auditor General ga a tla le ene, ga a tshwanela go tla fela jaaka legodu la bosigo kana leso le tla le sa laela.

Go tshwanetse gore fa go tliwa kwa go bone, go bo go tliwa fela go tlhamaletswe sentle gotwe “ke etla koo ka di kana, ke tlile to audit.” Sengwe le sengwe se tlhamalale sentle, unless go na le sengwe se se dirwang se se neng se sa itsagale.

Gongwe e le tiro e e dirwang ka sephiri, kana e dirwa ba bangwe ba sa itse.
Fa a tla, ba tshwanetse ba mmaakanyetse dipampiri gore a fitlhele di ntse di le well on paper trail ya teng e a e batlang.

E se ka ya re fa a tsena a bo a re ke batla se, ga se yo.

Everything that is done by Government leaves behind a paper trail ya whatever se se diragalang unless mongwe a e senya.

It will always be there and I do not believe that is what the civil servants of this country will do, unless e le people accuse ka sengwe gape.
Ke dumela gore ke le arabile lotlhe bakaulengwe ba me, ba ba neng ba akgela.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Minister, proceed.

MR RAKGARE: Thank you so much.

Honourable Mthimkhulu, we have nothing to hide.

I have always maintained gore fa re santse re tshwere marapo a re a tshwereng, ope o gololesegile gore o ka tla go tlhodumela what we do because re fa go tla go dira tiro ya Puso not to hide anything.

Ke a bo ke tshwenngwa ke mo go tlaabo go tla e le mabarebare a le rona re sa itseng lepele le morago la one.
I think mo gongwe e a bo e le maikaelelo a to tarnish tse Puso e di dirang go sena sepe se se kalokalo se motho a se buang, se le maleba go na le lepele le morago.

Ke fete ka mafoko a a ntseng jalo Honourable Mthimkhulu, ke re ga go na le fa e le sepe, le fa e le sepe.

Ba re dirang le bone ba a itse gore e bile ga re tshikinyege fa re bua ka corruption.

We are very clear gore we will not tolerate dilo tse di duleng mo tseleng.

Never!
Never!

Ga re ka ke tsa tshameka ka madi a Batswana ka tsela e e ntseng jalo and anybody who engages mo ditirong tse di sa nnang sentle tsa tshenyo, will go immediately.

Fa e le sengwe re tlaa seka mme a seyo mo lephateng.

Ke a leboga.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Ke boammaaruri Honourable Rakgare, ke dumalana le wena.

Ke ne ke bua gore tota mafoko a o a buang, ke gore fa Auditor General a batla sengwe kwa ministry wa gago, dikgoro di butswe.
Jaanong ga o ka ke wa tla fela phakela o tsena mo ofising, o ya go fitlhela motho yo o tshwarang dibuka a seyo.

Ke itse go rulaganngwa, go kwalwa lekwalo gore ke tla koo ka di kana, unless go na le sengwe se ke sa se itseng.

Se e leng gore mongwe o ne a batla go tsosa mathata le modumo kana a batla go bua dikgang ka fa o buang ka teng.

Jaanong before ke tswala, Rre Letsholathebe o buile ka thutuntsho.

O a ngongorega ka madi a a fokoditsweng a thutuntsho ya babereki ba kwa Auditor General.
Ba tlhoka gore ba rutuntshiwe gore ba nne le dithutego tse di rileng, jaaka tsa forensics, audit le eng, le eng.

Ke a go utlwa Rre Letsholathebe, re go utlwile sentle fela thata.

Go ne go na le shortage ya madi a se kalokalo, a sa lekane sengwe le sengwe.

Ke dumela gore ba go utlwile, re go utlwile, e tlaa re nako e e tlang, these concerns will be addressed ka fa tshwanelong.

MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Elucidation.

Thank you.

If you allow Mr Chair.


Rre Keorapetse o ne a re, Permanent Secretaries (PSs) treat the Auditor General as their peer.

Nnyaa, ga ke dumalane le gone moo.

Ba ka tswa ba lekana ka scale ka fa o buang ka teng, mme ditiro tsa bone di a 51 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply farologana.

Everybody has his or her own responsibility defined by the law.
Fa motho a tla a dira tiro ya gagwe ka fa molaong, ga o ka ke wa re o lekana le ene ka gore o dira tiro ya gagwe.

Fa Judge a tla, ga a ka ke a kgopakgopetsa Attorney General, Attorney General ga a ka ke a kgopakgopetsa Judge, DPP, kana Auditor General.

These are Government officials that have been set up by the Constitution.

Their respective functions have been clearly spelt out by the Constitution.

Ga go na gope fa gotweng yo mongwe o lekana le yo mongwe kana ga a lekane le yo mongwe, nnyaa.
Ba dira ditiro tse di farologanyeng.

Madi ke madi, but ditiro and responsibilities di farologanye.

Responsibility ya ga Auditor General ga e tshwane gotlhelele le ya ga PS, Judge kana DPP, ga di tshwane.

Botlhe ba a itse gore fa ba bereka, they work independent of each other.

Jaanong ke wetsa kwa bokhutlong Mr Chairperson, ke re, this conclude my budget proposals for the office of the Auditor General and I request that the sum of P92,970,080 be approved and stand part of the 2022/2023 estimates.
I move accordingly.

Thank you Mr Chairperson.

Question put and agreed to.

MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Honourable Members, that concludes the matters on the Order Paper and may I call upon the Leader of the House, His Honour the Vice President (VP) to move a Motion of adjournment.

MOTION ADJOURNMENT LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ka gore o kopile gore re setse re feditse tiro ya letsatsi le, re tle eme gone fa.

Ke kopa gore Ntlo e dumalane le kopo ya gago.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Next time go mover nna, re lekana ka maemo.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!

)… Question put and agreed to.
The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 17:21 p.m. until Friday 11th March, 2022 at 9:00 a.m. 52 Hansard No 205Thursday 10th March, 2022ORGANISATION 1400 - AUDITOR GENERALCommittee of Supply HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B.
B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae 53 Hansard No 205