Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698140331324.pdf (South Africa)
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 1 FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF MINI-PLENARY SESSION OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER ____ Members of the mini-plenary session met in the National Assembly Chamber at 10: The House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
APPROPRIATION BILL Debate on Vote No 39: Rural Development and Land Reform: The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Chair, I have a couple of home boys on my left.

So when they make some noise don‘t worry.

[Interjections.]

No, not you, I am talking about Ndlambe, the wonderful municipality.

Look behind you.
Look behind you.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 2 Hon Chair, hon members of the House, all Ministers and Deputy Ministers present today, members of the portfolio committee, distinguished guests and fellow South Africans, the governing party - the ANC - declared 2017 as the year of Oliver Reginald Tambo, the year of unity in action by all South Africans.
Together we continue to move our great country towards the vision of a united, nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous society — the strategic objective of the national democratic revolution.
The Ready to Govern document sets out the ANC‘s policy objectives as follows: to strive for the achievement of the right of all South Africans, as a whole, to political and economic self-determination in a united South Africa; to overcome the legacy of inequality and injustice created by colonialism and apartheid, in a swift, progressive and principled way; to develop a sustainable economy and state infrastructure that will progressively improve the quality of life of all South Africans; to encourage the flourishing of the feeling that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, to promote a common loyalty to, and pride in the country; and to UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 3 create a universal sense of freedom and security within its borders.
In pursuit of these objectives, President Zuma established the National Planning Commission and charged it with the task of putting together a comprehensive National Development Plan.

The National Planning Commission came up with a comprehensive plan, the National Development Plan: Vision 2030, which was widely canvassed among South Africans.

It was adopted by this august body, the tribune of the people of South Africa.
The National Development Plan was adopted by the governing party, the ANC, in its 53rd national conference in 2012.

The National Development Plan prefaces its objectives by the following quote from the Reconstruction and Development Programme of 1994: No political democracy can survive and flourish if the masses of our people remain in poverty, without land, without tangible prospects for a better life.

Attacking poverty and deprivation must therefore be the first priority of a democratic government.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 4 It goes on to say that eveloping and upgrading capabilities to enable sustainable and inclusive development requires a new approach and a new mindset.
The story we propose to write involves the following: creating jobs and livelihoods; expanding infrastructure; transitioning to a low carbon economy; transforming urban and rural spaces; improving education and training; providing quality health care; building a capable state; fighting corruption and enhancing accountability; and transforming society and uniting the nation.

That is the National development Plan.


In pursuit of the National Development Plan objectives, Cabinet set the following six priorities in its Medium-Term Strategic Framework 2014 to 2019.

Firstly, to improved land administration and spatial planning for integrated development in rural area thus the Spatial Planning and Land Use Management Act and the Communal Land Tenure Bill which will soon be released for public comment before it is introduced to this House.
The administration of the Spatial Planning and Land Use Management Act has been transferred to the Presidency.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 5 Secondly, is sustainable land reform, which is agrarian transformation and the rural economy transformation model, which provides a development framework in this regard; and the strategic farmer support services programme.
Thirdly, is the improved food security, that is agricultural policy action plan and the strengthening of relative rights of people working the land.

Seated here amongst the audience are some of South Africa‘s 50-50 pioneers in terms of promoting inclusive agricultural development in our country.

Fourthly, is smallholder farmer and support.

Fifthly, is increased access to basic infrastructure and services, particularly in education, health care and public transport in rural areas.
In this regard, we have the economic transformation committee, ETC, of the governing party as presented to the national executive committee of the ANC and adopted a programme turning South Africa into a construction site focussing on townships and rural areas.

In this programme we have put together a technical team from the Development Bank of Southern Africa,DBSA, Trans- Caledon Tunnel Authority, TCTA, and the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, to come up with a workable plan.
But the cutting edge to this programme is going to be the Agriparks.

I UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 6 was made to believe that there is a document that is based on the plans that have been developed reflecting what I am talking about at Moretele in the North West.

Fifthly, increased access to quality basic infrastructure and services particularly education, health care and public transport in rural areas.
This is going to cover that because Agriparks are going to be a comprehensive programme of development as we can no longer continue.

In the audience there are a number of mayors from district municipalities.

Go to Witzenberg in the Western Cape.

If members disbelieve what I am saying, I am going to say to them under our leadership that you, yourself, don‘t believe to what you are doing.

There is a beautiful story in Witzenberg, and there are many.

Here is a beautiful booklet.


It will show you what we are doing across the country in this regard.

Sixth, growth of sustainable rural enterprise and industries is characterised by strong rural-urban linkages, increased investment in agroprocessing, trade development and access to markets and financial services resulting in rural jobs.
Again, the National Development Plan turns South Africa into a UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 7 construction site with district Agriparks and farmer production support units which are a reality in a number of municipalities now in the country.
The key agrarian transformation measurables, in this regard, are the following: firstly, meeting basic human needs, reference to the Reconstruction and Development Programme, which most of us are familiar with; secondly, proliferation of agrovillage enterprises and industries, including agromanufacturers and retailers, sustained by credit facilities, markets and other strategic logistics; and thirdly, improved land tenure system.

Regarding challenges and mitigation, we have many challenges.
We acknowledge this and we don‘t hide that.

But we take heart in the following quotation from Che Guevara: The road is long and full of difficulties.

At times we wander from the path and must turn back; at other times we go too fast and separate ourselves from the masses; on occasions we go too slow and feel the hot breath of those treading on our heels.
In our zeal as revolutionists we try to move ahead as fast as possible, clearing the way, but UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 8 knowing we must draw our sustenance from the mass and that it can advance more rapidly only if we inspire it by our example.

That is fundamental.


It is so fundamental in fact that it informed the 53rd national conference of the ANC when it ushered in what it called the second phase transition of the national democratic revolution characterised by radical economic transformation.

Economic transformation, however, is not for itself, but for changing the social conditions of our people for the better.

That is a major of radical economic transformation.
In that context therefore, radical socioeconomic transformation is more appropriate, which is defined as follows.

It is a fundamental change in the structure, systems, institutions and patterns of ownership, management and control of the economy.

Contrary to the prevalent public narrative, this is a succinct and actionable definition.

What it requires is political will to drive it - all of us, all of us.

Our biggest challenge remains the answer to the question: who owns South Africa?
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 9 In terms of Phase 1 of our land audit, it became clear that we still needed to conduct an audit in terms of land ownership by race, gender and nationality.

We have just concluded the latter process, which is Phase 2.
However, there are still huge challenges because of gaps as a result of the absence of information in respect of institutions such as trusts, private and public organisations and companies, as well as sectional title holdings.

The source of this enduring challenge is incoherent institutional transformation, both within and external to the Department of Rural Development and Land Reforms.
The two examples are the absence of a dynamic, interactive relationship between the National Geomatics Management Services and the Deeds Registration System.

Yet, the former feeds into the latter.

There is that incoherence which we are dealing with in terms of us making sure that the information that we take out to the public with regard to Phase 2 of the land audit, is accurate.

Secondly, we have projectised the land claims process.

If you really look at it, it is five years.


We said people come and lodge claims and we gave them a period of five years.
This , in our view, and we have canvassed this with the governing party UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 10 and we have agreed that indeed we need to have a look at this because this was a strategic error which did not take into account fiscal constraints, complexities associated with verification or validation of claims, court challenges and internal capacity constraints.
In terms of moving forward we are working on transforming the Land Claims Commission into a Chapter 9 institution because land was taken from people over centuries.

A lot of people from homelands were taken through wars of dispossession and are no longer there.

We need research because there are so many embedded land claims and some of them are those that relate to the traditional areas where you have traditional leadership.
The executive of the House of Traditional Leaders in Limpopo advised and told me that when you process claims that have traditional institutions involved, be careful.

Follow the then Nhlapo commission report commission.

Of course, now it has been decentralised to provinces.

They say follow this carefully because some of the traditional leaders were imposed by colonialists and the apartheid regime.
We may give land to what you believe is a legitimate traditional leaser or institution UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 11 whereas it may not be.

After the Nhlapo commission results you may find out that you have done wrong thing without intending to do it by giving land to the wrong chief.

So, be careful as you do that.

There are a lot of these embedded claims.

We want to give it enough time.


In other countries like Australia they don‘t have projects like the five-year projects.

It‘s a lifelong thing because research will show all the time.

During the second window we consulted not less than 1 296 people who have received land and they said to us, Minister, go back and ask government to reopen the land claims because a lot of people with whom we were removed together from these land are not there.
They don‘t enjoy it because they did not claim for whatever reason.

Now, we can‘t bring them in because in terms of the law they must lodge claims and be processed.

They said, please, reopen it so that these people can have an opportunity to join us so that together we can enjoy this land which has been brought back to us.

That is essentially what drove us to go to Cabinet and request that we reopen the land claims.
That is why now we are talking about transforming the Land Claims Commission into a Chapter 9 institution so that our people can have an opportunity over long-term to look at themselves UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 12 indirect with family and friends and people they were removed with and lodge claims on an ongoing basis rather than as a project.
In terms of moving forward we are working on transforming the Land Claims Commission into a Chapter 9 institution.

The National Geomatics Management Services, Deeds Registries and Office of the Valuer-General will be listed as schedule 2 entities in terms of the Public Finance Management Act of 1999.

This is important because a lot of people, if you look at the Office of the Valuer-General, a lot of people particular farmers are very, very sensitive about this question.
They say this office ought to be independent so that we can trust it.

They keep writing to the Valuer-General.

Now there is a set of regulations that we have sent out for public comments.

Some of them are threatening to take him to court.

They believe that he can‘t be independent because he is attached to the department.

But this is a process.

We are moving towards that direction.

By the way, the Valuer-General is seating here.


We keep on talking about willing-buyer, willing-seller, there is no such thing.

I have been saying this so many times.

There is no willing-buyer, willing-seller in the Constitution of the Republic of South UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 13 Africa.

There is no wiling-buyer, willing-seller in the policies of the governing party - the ANC [Applause.]
The ANC conference took a resolution and said establish the office of the valuer- general.

Actually, we are one of the few in the world, not just in South Africa; it is the first time in the country.

There is the man.

Christopher, stand up so that people can see you.

Aplause.]

There he is, the Valuer-General - the first ever in the country.

He is one of the few in the world.

Namibia got one recently.

We are trying to link up with others and we get some in Australia, etc.
So we have it, and it is the office that has a final say in terms of the requirements of a just and equitable principle in the Constitution of our country.

He is working very closely with the University of Cape Town.

Now Wits University has also joined in and they are working together.

They are doing in-service training to the valuers that are present in the country because our universities of learning have not adjusted their own curricula to fall in line with the Constitution of our country.
They are still focussing in training on market value and ignore the other four aspects and factors of the Constitution of the Republic.

So he is driving UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 14 that relationship with the universities.

Thanks to the University of Cape Town and Wits University for now.

A further challenge relates to water rights being allocated to individuals, and not to the land.
This is a wonderful initiative for the Minister of Water and Sanitation.

Actually, she is going to change this so that water rights are attached to land, and not to individuals.

When an individual sells the land therefore, the individual leaves with the water rights.

This is a serious matter - they leave with water rights.

In some instances the black economic empowerment, BEE, culture is setting in this regard.
In some instances when commercial farmers, who are white, enter into an arrangement with black people who want to partner with them in the business, they say, okay, no problem, bring water rights.

Did you here that?

Just bring water rights.

They come with water rights and they become partners.

But every other thing remains in the hands of the commercial farmer.

That‘s a problem.

Furthermore, subdivisions and changes of land use are happening at a rapid pace.
An audit needs to be conducted in respect of both these issues, because they negatively impact on land reform UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 15 farms.

Although regulated by laws, compliance with and enforcement of such legislation needs to be strengthened.

A lot is happening in these functions with minimal accountability.

We are talking about institutional transformation in the context of the radical socioeconomic transformation.
The second institutional challenge is that, unless an owner expresses a need to change and submits information voluntarily, our current legal system is unable to compel production of that information.

They deliberately withhold information about the changes on land and, or property.

At present we have no institutional mechanism to enforce disclosure.

Cabinet is considering the report of Phase 2 of the land audit and we are expecting strong decisions to address all these institutional challenges.
The Land Commission provided for in the Regulation of Agricultural Land Bill, will enforce disclosure of ownership of land and landed property.

It is just a small thing here.

[Laughter.]

A small thing.

We have the regulation and we call it the Regulation of Agricultural Landholdings Bill.

Now here is the catch.

Because of the radical socioeconomic transformation, we check this.
There is a law of UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 16 1926 that defines agricultural landholding only confined to one province, the Transvaal.

In a sense here we would have fallen into a trap of saying agricultural landholding Bill as we have been saying.

We are changing that.

It is going to be agricultural land Bill, and not landholding.
By the time it comes here it will not be landholding because if it is landholding without us knowing, it would have referred only to the Transvaal.

That is institutional transformation.

When we talk about radical socioeconomic transformation we talk real issues like this one.

So we have found it through the process of looking into the land audit Phase 2: who owns this country?

Finally, regarding budget allocation, we have a budget of R10 billion.
This is the budget we are presenting to this august body, the National Assembly, and we hope that the House will approve it so that we can carry on with the agenda that we have described.
In conclusion, by 2030, South Africa should experience more integrated, vibrant, equitable and sustainable rural-urban communities that are supported by requisite logistics social and UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 17 economic infrastructure, inclusive economies, development finance institutions and credit and facilities, bustling markets, small, micro, medium and large scale enterprises and industries employing millions of people, and supported by research, innovation and information and technology centres.
This is the National Development Plan.

I am talking to the National Development Plan and all that I have been talking to now is the National Development Plan.

Mr M BAGRAIM: Yes, but you need 6% growth!

The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: This is exactly the point.

The hon member is correct.

That is exactly what we are talking about here.

This policy speech is not talking about mythical things out there.

It is talking about issues that are happening.

Check here.
Check here.

It is going to be distributed to everybody.

This is an exhibition of what we are doing in terms of rural development and land reform in the country.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 18 Now we have appointed some of the mayors who are sitting there - all the district mayors including your district mayors, hon members.

We have appointed all of them to be champions of Agriparks.

That is why we are going to visit Wintzenberg to see.
I have been invited and I will get there.

I will get to Witzenberg and see them.

One day come with me and see what we are doing so that while sitting here as hon members in the opposition and say, no, nothing is happening, that is a joke.

We are saying to you it is a joke.

It‘s here at Witzenberg.

Witzenberg is one of our best examples of development.

It is not the only one.

Again, look at Beaufort West here in the Western Cape.
We have the most advanced youth integrated development centre in the country in Beaufort West right under the noses of the hon members of the opposition.

Thank you very much.

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA: Hon Chairperson, let me indicate that, as the ANC, we support Budget Vote 39.
The late hon Nelson Mandela once said, UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 19 A fair land redistribution to its former black owners would guarantee peace, stability and national reconciliation as the country emerged from apartheid minority rule.
Furthermore Section 25 of the Constitution, subsection 5 indicates that the state must take reasonable legislative and other measures within its available resources, to foster conditions which enable citizens to gain access to land on equitable basis.

Therefore, land must be given back to the rightful owners following the existing legislative frameworks.

If those frameworks do not address the issue of the land question it is our responsibility as this House to review them.
Let us therefore not encourage land grabs.

We know that success is a journey, not a project.

The budget for the Commission on Restitution has increased from R3,1 billion in 2016-17 to R3,25 billion in 2017-18 and R10,3 billion for the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework thereof.
The commission has been able to spend its allocated budget for three consecutive years which is the indication that the commission UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 20 has the capacity to spend; and it is an indication that the commission‘s demand is huge and resources are limited to finalise all the claims settled in each financial year.

Hon Chair, we agree that the restitution process is slow.
Other claims lodged by the 31 December 1998 are not yet researched due to capacity constraints.

The plan of the commission to fast- track the research of the claims lodged by 31st of December 1998 is mostly welcomed as the research is the most important component of the lodgement process because it indicates whether the claim lodged is valid or invalid.

As the committee, we will monitor whether the 916 outstanding unresearched claims are finalised by the end of this quarter in this financial year.
Although we are concerned about the slow pace of some of the institutions in finalising the research process, the contract signed with those which submit poor research work must be cancelled without delay as they will further delay the restitution process.
Some of the reasons that delay the restitution process are: the long time taken to conduct research; the conflicts amongst claimants or beneficiaries; competing or overlapping claims; claims being challenged by land UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 21 owners through court; and high land prices charged by the land owners.

Therefore, let the claimants unite and speak with one voice for their claims to be processed and finalised on time.
To have land is not a privilege but a right.

People need land to build houses; to farm; and build businesses for them to contribute to the economic growth of the country.

We appreciate the efforts made by the commission to trace the claimants who have not come forth for their financial compensation.
The commission must continue to trace the outstanding claimants who have not come forward for their compensation to ensure that all the claimants entitled for financial compensation receive what is due to them.

The Restitution of Land Rights Amendment Bill which has been tabled as a Private Member Bill will be tabled to the committee in due course.

Let the citizens exercise their section 59 constitutional rights.
The Commission must improve communication with claimants and update them about the status of their claims.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 22 The policy on the exceptions to the 1913 cut-off date to accommodate the Khoi and San people‘s access to heritage sites and historical land marks is taking long to be finalised.

Consultations were done.

Let the department finalise this policy to ensure that the Khoi and San benefit from the land reform programme.
People will not be free until their land is returned to them.

The reduction of the compensation of employees‘ budget by 3% will have a negative impact on the operation of the commission as it will not be able to fill critical vacant positions.

Therefore, the department must engage Treasury on this matter as the land issue is a priority.

Thus, the resource allocation must be aligned to that.

Currently, the position of the Deputy Chief Land Commissioner is vacant.
The department must ensure that this post is filled by the end of the second quarter.

The compensation of employees‘ budget of the department has decreased, which is a concern.

But the committee is also concerned about the high number of experienced officials who are leaving the department as this has a negative impact on service delivery.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 23 The transfer of the Recap from the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform to Daff is welcomed to avoid the duplication of the post-settlement support given to farmers.

The department must fund the last trench of the outstanding Recap beneficiaries in this financial year.

Due to the high rate of the unemployment rate, the department initiated the Narysec Programme to capacitate the youth.
It was a good programme but after the completion of the training, Setas took long time to issue the certificates to participants, which diminishes the intention of the programme and demotivate the Narysec participants.

We therefore, request the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform, and the Department of Higher Education and Training to intervene in this matter to ensure that the certificates are issued on time.

There is therefore a need for the review of this programme.
The department has initiated a lot of projects to fight poverty, unemployment and inequality, project such as 50/50 one household, one hectare; one household, two dairy cows; but the UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 24 department is expected to table policies which guide them in the implementation of these projects to the committee.

The department has planned to table some legislation in this financial year.
Let the Bills be tabled on time for them to be processed accordingly.

No Bill will be fast-tracked.

The failure of the department to submit policies and legislation must be addressed.

We commend the department for tabling the Communal Property Association and Extension of Security of Tenure Act Amendment Bills.

The Public Hearings were held by the committee on the Extension of Security of Tenure Act Amendment Bill which is aimed at providing tenure security to farm dwellers and workers.
Hon Chair, farm dwellers are still evicted without following proper procedures by farm owners.

Farm dwellers are being assaulted, their cases reported but no action taken; their livestock is taken; they are deprived of their rights to stay with their children; there is lack of immediate access to anti- eviction toll-free number; they are not allowed to have visitors; are deprived of basic services; and others are not assisted by the Land Rights Management Facility.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 25 The Extension of Security of Tenure Act Amendment Bill will address some of the challenges faced by the farm dwellers and workers.

Let the Land Rights Management Facility support the victims until the case reported is finalised.

Let SAPS be trained on its role in the implementation of the Extension of Security of Tenure Act.
The department must try to enter into partnerships with legal institutions to strengthen the legal representation of the farm dwellers and workers.

The toll-free number must be made accessible when farm dwellers and workers use their cellphones.

Actions must be taken against those who disregard court judgements especially farm owners.
The Office of the Auditor-General, AG exists to strengthen the country‘s democracy by enabling oversight, accountability and governance in the public sector through auditing by building public confidence.

Therefore, the recommendations of the AG must be taken seriously.

We appreciate the efforts of the department in developing a plan to address the gaps identified in the audit report to avoid recurring audit findings and ensure compliance.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 26 It is also the responsibility of the accounting officer to ensure effective and efficient monitoring review system to ensure that the departmental goals and objectives, as set out in the strategic, annual performance and operational plans are achieved; and to implement the corrective actions in cases of underperformance.

The department has been able to fill vacancies with competent staff.
That is why there is improvement in its performance as compared to the previous years.

The quality of the performance report of the department has improved over the past three years.

There is slight improvement in compliance with legislation but more still needs to be done.

The departmental budget was R9,4 billion in 2014-15; R9,3 billion in 2015-16; R10,124 billion in 2016-17; and R10,184 in 2017-18 financial years.
The department has been able to spend its allocation but more needs to be done to ensure that the spending is aligned to its performance.

To fight corruption and maladministration, the Minister indicated in his 2016-17 Budget Vote that the panel of lawyers UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 27 to conduct pre-disciplinary investigations has been appointed and actions will be taken against those implicated.
Hon Minister, there‘s a lot of outcry about the alleged corruption in the department especially in the restitution and Proactive Land Acquisition Strategy, Plas farms.

People who want farms for leasing are unable to access them.

Some of the officials want bribes [intshontsho], and others allocate farms to friends and relatives.
Let the audit be done on the Plas farms to understand who is occupying the farm, where and how that person has accessed the farm, is there any lease agreement signed and how much is being paid for the lease rental.

Lots of investigations were done, but sometimes actions take long to be implemented.

At the beginning of the term the department and entities are expected to table the strategic plan.
Further than that, in each financial year, they must present the annual performance plan together with the operational plans.

That plan will enable the committee to do its oversight effectively.

We therefore commend the Ingonyama Trust Board, ITB for ensuring that the two plans are presented.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 28 As the committee we are concerned about the delay by the ITB in finalising policies.
The ITB has to finalise the policy on funding cultural events and bursary policy and other outstanding policies to ensure that funding allocation is done in order and not haphazardly.

The ITB is commended for being able to pay service providers who submitted undisputed invoices on time, as said by the Hon President in the Sona that service providers must be paid within 30 days.
The ITB is expected to use its allocated resources effectively, efficiently and economically for the benefit of the rural people living in the Ingonyama Trust Board Land.

The provision of the financial support to youth living in the Ingonyama Trust Board Land is mostly appreciated.

It will decrease the number of unskilled youth and create job opportunities for young people.
The Community Development Plan of the Ingonyama Trust Board must be aligned to municipal Integrated Development Plans, IDPs and to ensure that there is good working relationship between Ingonyama Trust Board, local municipality and other government UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 29 departments to avoid silo development and promote comprehensive integrated development.
The Department of Rural Development and Land Reform must play its role in guiding and monitoring the implementation of the Ingonyama Trust Board Act.

ITB reports must be submitted to the department first before are tabled to Parliament and that is a must.

No report will be considered by the committee if not tabled to Parliament by the Minister.
We appreciate that ITB has been able to appoint contract workers permanently, but more still needs to be done to ensure that people with disabilities are recruited as per the White Paper on the Rights of People with Disabilities as adopted by Cabinet in 2015.

The reduction of using consultants must be considered and job opportunities must be created to fight poverty and to address high rate of unemployment in rural areas.
As the committee, we will intensify our oversight responsibilities to ensure that no fruitless, wasteful and irregular expenditure will be tolerated, and those who are responsible must account.

Early detection of such is necessary UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 30 and action must be taken.

Chairperson, thank you very much.

[Applause.]

Mr K P ROBERTSON: Chairperson and everybody, good morning.

Welcome to everybody here.


Hon Minister, I am glad that you mentioned the Valuer-General is here today, but the person we really want to speak to is the Surveyor-General.

Is he here today?

He is the person we want to speak to about land.

[Interjections.]

Today ...

I beg your pardon?

Today, I paint a picture to millions of disadvantaged South Africans who look at land as the only remaining answer to addressing long-term indignities and economic isolation.
The hardest reality for people to embrace is the realisation that this governing party will not succeed in addressing land reform issues, despite having the necessary legislation in place to do it.

Somhlolo Trust in Mpumalanga is restituted land with ongoing business concerns, but the beneficiaries have not received one cent.

They also have not received title deeds and have no say regarding the finances of their own property.
Can you imagine UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 31 the feeling of utter frustration?

In the Eastern Cape near Tsitsikamma was a thriving commercial hydroponic tomato farm called Cornucopia that has now completely collapsed.

The farm was purchased for a workers‘ trust consisting of employees of that farm.

Now, the farm stands desolate.

The 18 tunnels that were provided for the hydroponics stand weather beaten and empty.
We cannot point fingers at the beneficiaries, though, because the government involvement and mentorship required to assist the emerging farmers were nonexistent, and the Liphuma Langa Development Trust was set on an inevitable course of failure.

It is these blunders that are currently causing disadvantage to the disadvantaged.
Had we addressed mentorship shortfalls on land reform and given the beneficiaries ownership of their land through unconditional title deeds, emerging farmers or beneficiaries would be so much closer to participating in the economy.
I will ask this question: If state mentorship is stagnant and noneffective, and those who have the knowledge and experience on farming are publically ostracised constantly, who exactly is UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 32 going to mentor emerging farmers and beneficiaries of land reform?

What the DA will do is allocate additional funding for the purposes of research and development that will fast-track the finalisation of claims.
We will ensure that the policy is implemented effectively.

We will increase the budget for mentorship programmes so as to drastically improve the chances of success for emerging farmers.

We will approach existing stakeholders to assist and offer business models that speak to the development of disadvantaged South Africans.
Finally, the DA is the only party that truly wants the poor to own their own property and that dependency on the state should be transformed into prosperous participation of the poor in our economy.

I thank you.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, if, according to the Bible, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is a mystery of greater understanding, then the rite of passage ceremony to genuine economic freedom and sovereignty can be found in Marxian philosophy where Marx and Engels write that the ability of man to free himself from superstition and fear is UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 33 the beginning of wisdom.
Man then becomes capable of forging and fighting for his own material happiness.

That is the beginning of revolutionary consciousness.

This year marks 104 years since a white minority regime passed the Natives Land Act, Act 27 of 1913.

The Act, as many others before and after 1913, legislated away the humanity of black people by confining them to just 7% of the land of this country.
This year also marks 144 years since the Robben Island murder of Inkosi Maqoma ka Ngqika who led three of the nine wars of resistance against colonial land dispossession in what is now known as the Eastern Cape.

Defined by colonialists as a savage of extraordinary ability and a commander of savages second to none, he remains to us an immortal inspiration to all dispossessed people across this country and this continent.
Today, the descendents of the colonialists who murdered him are with us in this House – John – denying that they are beneficiaries of a brutal system that stripped black people of their humanity.

Today, we have a government led by black people, which refuses to complete the struggle that their great- grandfathers died for.
Most of these people who lead us are UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 34 descendents of those warrior men and women led by Maqoma, Bambatha, Moshoeshoe, Mampuru, Shaka, and many other gallant fighters of our people who died with their spears held high in defence of their land and their humanity.
Today, 144 years after Maqoma took his last breath, black people are still landless, black people are still nationless, and black people are still pariahs in the land of their birth.

Today, 23 years after the ANC took over power and forced through a land policy premised on a ridiculous principle of willing-buyer, willing-seller, only 8% of land in South Africa has been transferred back to black people since the end of apartheid colonialism.

Sesotho: Re a ipotsa, le louwe ke mang.


English: Today, 23 years after blacks were given political power and after credible opinion upon credible opinion showing that the property clause in the Constitution is a major hindrance to land UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 35 reform, the ANC refuses to amend the Constitution to allow for speedy land reform.

IsiXhosa: Siyabuza ukuba nithakathwe ngubani na?

[Kwahlekwa.]

[Who bewitched you, we ask?]


English: Today, African people stand on the same grounds Sol Plaatje stood in 1913 when he said, ―The South African native found himself, not actually a slave, but a pariah in the land of his birth‖.

Today, a black person in this country has not advanced from where his forebears stood, has not acquired any changed socioeconomic position.

He is no less of a pariah – a bastardised, modern wage slave.

Afrikaans: Wie het julle getoor?

[Who bewitched you?]


English: As a result of this, we, as a country, have no land reform programme but a massive land purchase programme and endless excuses from the ANC.

That is why, out of a budget of UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 36 R10,1 billion for this financial year, R3,2 billion will go to the component dealing with restitution, which entails, amongst others, buying land from white farmers to be returned to black people.
Who bewitched you, we ask?

At the rate at which we are going, it would take us more than 120 years to transfer at least 40% of the land back to black people.

This is a crisis; it needs resolute leadership.

The ANC has been sloganeering for far too long, talking about radical economic transformation on one hand, whilst wanting to appease white feelings on the other.

Once again, we offer our support to you to amend the Constitution.
This may be the very last chance you have to do something meaningful for our people.

You will lose votes in 2019, and you will be in no position to lead a programme of radical change in our society.

Again, you will lament that you have been bewitched.

Then you will only be remembered as people who didn‘t have the balls to dismantle the key foundations of white supremacy and black subjugation in this country.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 37 Minister, we must also tell you right now that your attempt to recreate the Bantu Authorities Act through your Communal Land Tenure Bill is a very dangerous attempt at circumventing democracy in rural areas.

IsiXhosa: Uthakathwe ngubani Mphathiswa?

[Who bewitched you, Minister?]


English: We need to deal with the continuing ―Bantufication‖ in the former homelands in a manner that respects the rights of all people, including unmarried and widowed women, as well as gay and lesbian people to own land.

Your assertion that, in areas where there are both Communal Property Associations and Traditional Authorities, your department would recognise only Traditional Authorities is ridiculous and must be condemned.
Under these circumstances, we can only remind all and sundry of the PAC struggle song ... IsiXhosa: Amabhulu ayasithakatha, athakatha isizwe esimnyama.

[The Boers are bewitching us, bewitching a black nation.]

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 38 English: We want to remind you that for all of these reasons, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote.

Thank you.

[Time expired.]

[Interjections.]


Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister and the two Deputy Ministers in the department, hon members, at the outset I just want to say hon Chair that whilst the land question is a very emotional and an emotive one, we must deal with it with a necessary maturity and sub right it deserves, because it has the potential if recklessly handled to take this country backwards.
Having said that, it does not mean we must be complacent and not move with the necessary speed to actually deal with the land question.

Expropriation with compensation remains the IFP policy and by compensation we do not mean that it must be profit seeking.

So, the first order of business that we would like to charge the Minister and the department to look at and I am glad that the valuer-general has been introduced.
There are a quite a number of land claims that have taken place and an exorbitant amounts UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 39 of money have been paid.

We charge the department to go back and investigate the collusion and the criminal element that took place in those transactions.
There are instances whereby land which should have cost R5 million people took it for R15 million and the lifestyle audit must take place on the officials involved so that we can actually begin to recover the money that was lost unnecessarily.

We cannot abuse this important responsibility of giving land to our people and abuse it with officials, lawyers and persons who are criminals.
It charges you, Minister that investigate this thing, it is in the national interest because it will legitimise what you are doing.

For so long as there is a criminal element, then we can‘t take it seriously as a genuine endeavour of the government.

Hon House Chairperson, if there was development taking place in rural areas and I come from the rural South Coast of KwaZulu Natal.
IsiZulu: Ngiqhamuka eMfume ... English: UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 40 ... but for everything I need to go to town.

That being a phenomenon it means that we are overburdening urban areas with the slow pace of development in rural areas.

Healthcare, housing, infrastructure, water, sanitation the whole nine yards – urban areas find themselves burdened.

So, we have got a wall to wall municipality system in this country in any case.
We must begin ensuring that municipalities which are in rural communities in the main are given the necessary capacity, skills, knowledge and expertise to be economically viable so that we do not have this continuous exodus of people from rural areas to urban areas.

With that, of course, we are not saying people must not move to urban areas.

But, let us begin creating new economies in rural areas – I mean the concept of special economic zones can work if our minds are duly applied to it.
Umzumbe on the South Coast of KwaZulu-Natal for a long time was a hive of beans production.

Today, that is no longer happening and people have to pay R110 for five kilogram of beans.

So, really this is in the national interest that we go back and zoom into the capabilities of rural areas and begin constructing the development agenda around the strength and capabilities of those communities.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 41 Finally, I just want to say Minister we need to have National Rural Youth Service Corps, NARYSEC, revived and working better than we have seen before.

Allow me, hon House Chairperson, to say if you want to address the land question properly the genesis should be going back, the point of departure ... [Time expired.]

if you are to be legitimate address the land question.

I thank you.
I thank you.

IsiZulu: Usolwazi M KHUBISA: Sihlalo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe noNgqongqoshe abaphakathi kwethu, namaSekela oNgqongqoshe kanye namalungu ahloniphekile, asisho ukuthi siyasemukela isabiwomali Ngqongqoshe kodwa ke kukhona izinto esifuna ukuzisho ... English: ... which we feel are pertinent and we want to agree that we really need an audit of the land because quite frankly you will find that70% of our land that was dispossessed from us is in the hands of a few.
That phenomenon needs to be redressed, that has to be attended.

Hence, there is a need for an audit Minister and it is very urgent.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 42 Again we understand that our kings possessed the land, our people had land even before 1913.

Now if the act says lets deal with communities who were dispossessed of their land after 1913.
I think that is not fair because our people possessed land in the ages and that has to be taken into cognisance as well.

Of course, we understand that land brings dignity to our people and our people needs title deeds.

Once they possess title deeds they feel that they are the owners of the land and it is their land.

We must ensure that they get this land.


We understand from the side of the department that this department has a role in growing rural economy through AgriParks, accelerating land reform, recapitalising and redeveloping redistribution of farms, creating opportunities for rural youth.
But Minister I must also say that there are a lot of bottlenecks and you have alluded to this yourself, that we need to deal with the land claims that go as far as 1998 and where we see that there is some slow pace and there is also corruption that other hon members have referred to.
Those are the issues that need to be attended to when we are dealing with this issue of land – UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 43 those bottlenecks that cause a slow pace for people to have land have to be attended to.

I know that your department Minister have to work in tandem with other departments like Cogta and Agriculture and Fisheries.
Let us deal with this issue of farmers who are abusing the farm workers, but also at the same time farmers must not be killed because there are so many incidents of farmers that are killed all over the country.

That issue must be attended to because whilst we deal with those farmers that are abusing our people; let us also deal with those who kill the farmers.

We don‘t want that kind of anarchy in our country.

Of course, the issue of land is a very sensitive one.
As we deal with it and we don‘t need any anarchy.

It must be dealt with within the ambit of the legislation.

Hon Minister, I want to say it is very important also to assure that those who get farms, are given these mentorship skills, expert knowledge so that they are able to farm in them.

We see that those farms are lying in waste because these people don‘t have some skills to farm.

They need the training; our unit training enter into co-operative so that they are able to use this land.
It will also help those in the rural areas to be in UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 44 those places, and we prevent this whole thing of urbanisation.

We see the mushrooming of shacks because our people are living the rural areas to the urban areas.

I think these are pivotal issues that have to be attended to, Minister.

Thank you very much.

... [Time expired.]


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Mr M Skwatsha): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Nkwinti, hon Deputy Minister, members of the portfolio committee, acting director- general and your team and all hon members gathered here today, good morning.
Let me rather start in an odd way and learn and take from a leaf of one of my colleagues from the opposition parties, who stood on this platform two days ago and indicated as I indicate now that as he speak today, women and children in South Africa are being killed.

I am just raising this to say that let all men stand up and say, ―Not in our name.‖ [Applause.]
I want to thank the Minister for his stewardship in guiding us as we implement the policies of our government in relation to matters of land reform and rural development.

His calm and UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 45 measured approach keeps us in check as we lead these developmental issues.

Discussions on land are often emotive and consequently it can sometimes be easy not to think straight.
When one is in such a state of mind it could be easy to submit to populist rhetoric and abandon your own programme.
Hon members, it is appropriate that we remind ourselves about where we come from, so I thought I should share with you what one Alfred Hoernle, a liberal European with German lineage said in 1939, commenting on the native reserves set aside for the indigenous who had been dispossessed and I quote, ―... Europeans can own land in the reserves; and reside on it; ...On the other hand, no native individual or tribe may own land in an area set aside for white ownership‖.
It is precisely because of condescending views such as these that during the budget debate last year I said and I quote again: UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 46 After our victory 22 years ago, we began to right the wrongs, to bring justice to our divided land.

We have not done to those who robbed us of our land, what they did to us.

Instead, in the moment of our victory, we acknowledged their rights as well.
In fact our great leader Oliver Tambo puts this very clear, whilst he was addressing the World Council of Churches in 1980, when he said and I quote: What was arrogantly described as a civilising mission in South Africa was in fact the genocidal destruction of the Khoi and the San people, the land expropriation of the rest of the indigenous people, the obliteration of their culture in all its forms, the application of a consistent policy for the impoverishment of the black people and their transformation into labour units for the enrichment of the coloniser ...
So, ladies and gentlemen, we should not be tempted and stray from our chosen path of implementing the National Development Plan by revolutionary sounding propositions that look attractive UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 47 in their appearance, but whose content could cause our country more harm than good.

Ideas that could reverse the gains achieved thus far, towards the building of a democratic, nonracial and nonsexist South Africa.
Reversing the effects of colonial conquest will take some time; we just need to sharpen our policies, strategies and tools.

So, sir, it might be a matter of, who is bewitched between the rational people of South Africa and the EFF?

[Interjections.]

Before I get to the detailed presentation on the budget, I would like to reiterate once again referring to the last year‘s debate.

We said as a department we are implementing ...

[Interjections.]

Mr N S MATIASE: On a point of order, Chairperson.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Deputy Minister, will you just take a seat please?

Hon member, why are you rising?

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 48 Mr N S MATIASE: Can the Deputy Minister take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Deputy Minister, are you prepared to take a question from the hon member?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Mr M Skwatsha): Very much so hon Chairperson, after I have completed my speech.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon member.

The Deputy Minister will take a question if there is time left after his speech.

Thank you.

Continue hon Deputy Minister.

[Interjections.]

An EFF MALE MEMBER: Uya koyika sbali.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Mr M Skwatsha): The District Land Reform Committees, DRLCs in all 44 districts will deal with all applications.

These DLRCs means that power has now been devolved from the national office to stakeholders involved in agriculture and farming.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 49 We have a wonderful programme of One Household One Hectare.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

The department initiated this programme called One Household One Hectare in 2015, targeting state-owned farms, proactive land acquisition strategy, PLAS, farms and communal land with a purpose of creating rural smallholder producers at household level to ensure food security.

Currently, the department has granted approval for 158 sites, benefitting 5 734 households across the country.

We also have the strengthening of the relative rights of the people working the land.
The overall progress regarding this programme includes the receipt of more than 100 proposals of which 14 were approved as at the end of the 2016-17 financial year.

To date, we have invested an amount of R680 million benefitting 4 450 beneficiaries.

The following represents some of the 14 approved projects: In the Eastern Cape, Birbury farm, in the Free State we have Outlands and many, many other areas in our country.
Hon Chair, with regards to restitution, the commission has exceeded most of its annual performance targets during the UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 50 financial year 2016-17.

The commission has settled 804 land claims and finalised 672.

It is exciting to note that the commission which is on the cusp of autonomy has achieved a clean audit in its financial management.
Some of our restitution projects have attained international stature, where their produce competes amongst the best in world.

The Ravele restitution project in Limpopo, churns out R10 million annual turnover with monotonous regularity, while the Nkanini restitution project in KwaZulu-Natal, is training unemployed youth with matric qualification in sugarcane production.
Despite our successes, we are aware that there are some communities whose claims were submitted before the 1998 cutoff date which have not been resolved yet.

We are coming and we are dealing with that.

Tomorrow, we will be in the area of Lawaaikamp in George, at a ceremony that marks the final stage in the settlement of a claim there.
I am also delighted to have in the gallery, 87-year-old Mr Pakamisa Mdala from Kwa-Khiba - it is difficult I cannot ask an UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 51 old man to stand up - maybe he can wave if he wishes to.

However, he is one of those people who lost their claim in 1998.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

In the financial year 2017-18, the department will invest an amount of R112 million in the acquisition of land for farm dwellers and labour tenants in order to entrench their security of tenure.

The department has also established labour tenants and farm dweller forums at national, provincial and districts.
With regard to communal property institutions, the introduction of a land reform programme created the possibility for communities and larger groups of persons to control land on a communal basis.

This necessitated the passing of the Communal Property Act of 1996.

There are currently 1 513 Communal Property Associations, CPAs, that have been registered countrywide.
The enormous resources that are normally at the disposal of these entities tend to manufacture conflict that eventually renders these entities dysfunctional.

The Communal Property Association Act is UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 52 currently being amended with a view to strengthen control mechanisms and establish a proper register of CPAs.
As indicated by the Minister, we have a Valuer-General which has been introduced and his work is definitely the work that has to be appreciated because it also helps in saving money for government.

In conclusion, let me recap on what it is that we are attempting to do.

We are about addressing injustices of forced removals and the historical denials of access by redistributing land and through restitution.
We are about ensuring the security of tenure for rural people, farm dwellers and Transformation of Certain Rural Areas Act communities.

We are about the rekindling the emergence the black farmer who must play a meaningful role in the agroprocessing value-chain.

We are about dealing with the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality.

We are doing this work without disrupting agricultural production and food security.

I thank you.

[Applause.]

Can I answer the question?


UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 53 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No there is no time for you to do that, hon Deputy Minister.

You can do that outside the Chamber.

[Laughter.]

Mr M L W FILTANE: Chairperson, the UDM supports the budget vote report, if only to help the poor citizens of South Africa.
We note that, notwithstanding our suggestion, which we made during the discussions in the portfolio committee with regard to making the Agri-Parks more productive and effective, till today, the department has so far failed to produce the socio-economic impact of this programme in particular, in the districts where these programme is already in operation.
Poor decision making at leadership level within the department has led to the suspension of, not only the Director-General, DG,-as of the 8th December in 2016, but also a number of other senior administrative heads in some provinces in the country.

Naturally, this hampers progress in the roll-out of departmental programmes.

The UDM appeals to the Minister to try to speed up the process of finalising these outstanding disciplinary processes.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 54 As a consequence of a consistent failure by the department to bring the required and necessary bills to Parliament, the department lacks the requisite legislative mandate and capacity to enable it to unapologetically affect consistent and sustainable delivery on the basis of its constitutional mandate.
This unfortunate situation has dire consequences for the transformation agenda, which is geared to fundamentally change the lives of those who stand to benefit from the programmes of the department.

Parliament and the portfolio committee in particular, must be ready to unwarrantedly shock-absorb the consequences of the failure of the department, when the time to consult with the people on these bills visits us.

We will have a cramped up programme.


Logic dictates that in the absence of a legal framework to act on, there can be no space for operational policies, and effectively no hope for effective government intervention.

Once more, the UDM implores the department to take this weakness seriously, and move to do the right thing.
With urbanisation fast occurring in our communities, the department may soon find itself irrelevant to the people of UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 55 South Africa because a lot of people are moving to the urban areas.

Do the right thing whilst you still have space.

The officials of this department have very limited project management skills and this hampers the programmes of the departments.
At this time of our programme as the country it is the worse time for the department‘s budget to be so drastically reduced that it limits operations in the following programmes; that is rural development, restitution and redistribution.

This is a collapse of the original political programme.

There is no foundation therefore for radical economic transformation.

An important political question is whether the ruling party is handing over on a silver plate all the land that was forcefully taken pre-1913?
The Zuma administration appears to have no appetite for this chunk of land.

On top of that over six thousand land claims before 1998, have yet to be finalised.

The President indicates left whilst his caucus turns right on this vexing matter... Isixhosa: Sise eyiphi ke ngoku komkhulu xa uMongameli ebheka ngapha libe iGqugula le-ANC lisiya ngaphaya.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 56 English: In conclusion, the government is dithering about occupying this sensitive political space, someone else will take that space.

The Ingonyama Trust Board continues to benefit from the national ﬁscus, yet, it has absolutely not operational relationship with the local sphere of government.

This is a matter of concern.


Lastly, section 25 of the Constitution is not being planned to be tempered with by the Zuma administration this year.

Let all the political talk not blind you.

They have got no intention of doing anything.

The status quo is going to remain.

It is going to be the foundation for the future [Time Expired.]

Afrikaans: Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, almal weet dat daar gesloer word met grondhervorming.
Dis al amper 20 jaar na 1998, en steeds is die eise van 1998 nie afgehandel nie.

Ek wil die stelling maak om te sê dat die ANC-regering opsetlik sloer met grondhervorming, omdat hulle dit gebruik as ‘n politieke speelbal vir politieke gewin.
Dit is vir die ANC UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 57 belangrik dat hulle President moet rondgaan en vir mense sê dat ons nie vir julle kan gee nie, want dit wat ons julle graag wil gee – die grond – is as gevolg van die witmense wat die grond gesteel het, en daarom moet ons nou kom met onteiening sonder vergoeding.

Dit is ‘n politieke speelbal wat baie gevaarlik is, want eintlik plaas u voedselsekerheid en sekuriteit op die spel.
Dit is mos maklik om te sê dat witmense 80% van grond in Suid- Afrika besit.

English: Is that true hon Minister?

Since 2004 I am asking for a land audit.

In 2015, the ANC policy documents determined that the second phase of the land order will be available in September 2015.

The second phase is very important because, the second phase audit would have shown the race and gender of land owners.

We are all barely in 2017, why don‘t you disclose that?
Why are you taking so long to finalise that land audit?

Because, it suits you, and that you can go around and say to people, we made promises to you the moment we can sort this out we will give you the land.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 58 Hon Minister, please give the people the land!

Because at this moment only one out of every ten transactions the title deeds of the land that was used in land reform went to the new owners.
Ninety percent of title deeds of land reform went to the government.

The state own the land.

So why don‘t you transfer the title deeds to the new owners when it comes to land reform?

No, because it suits your political agenda.

Let me also say - you said hon Minister that you have learned from Zimbabwe that you won‘t make use of land grabs.

You will follow the legal path.

Now, what I am telling you – what you are busy doing is that you are busy with illegal land grab in South Africa.
If you look at the regulations by the valuer general then I am telling you, you are going to give people about half the market value of their property.

Afrikaans: Ek wil vir die mense van Suid-Afrika sê: Gaan kyk na hierdie regulasies.

Moenie dink dit is net landbougrond wat ter sprake is nie.
Dit raak alle eiendom in Suid-Afrika, want as die nuwe onteieningswet kom, gaan die regulasies van die Waardeerder- UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 59 generaal ook op u eiendom van toepassing wees.

Dit sluit ook onroerende eiendom in.

Hierdie regulasies is die rooi vlag wat vir grondeienaars sê om wakker te word en hul besware in te dien.
Ek dank u. Mr W M MADISHA: Chairperson, at the National Foundations Dialogue Initiative, former President Kgalema Motlanthe used an analogy in explaining the complexities and difficulties of ensuring responsible and rational transformation.

He referred to a poet who wrote the words ‗Past, ‗Present‘ and ‗Future‘ as one word — because, as the poet put it, we are always in the now!
The point is that when we endeavour to address the past, it is done in the present - and thus needs to be done with regard to the present, the now.

Likewise, when we endeavour to put in place new plans and measures to prepare for the future, they too are done in the present - and as such these plans and measures must be considered with cognizance to the present, the now.

And this in part is the conundrum that we face today in South Africa.
When we endeavour to attend to the need to address land reform — we do so in the now - and thus must do so with cognizance to UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 60 present circumstances — like it is.
To paraphrase an academic in Poverty, Land and Agrarian Studies ―Popular political rhetoric on the land question, land draws on a narrow narrative in which white farmers and foreigners are villains, black South Africans are victims, and government or the opposition party, or civil society activists are heroes riding to the rescue.

A political imaginary centred on the trends to dominate land discourse.
However, maybe the question should be, how can the land question, land reform and securing land tenure be resolved and the rural economy re-organised so that we achieve social justice, rural development and at the same time feed growing numbers of urban residents at affordable prices?

Mr Minister, in our rural areas a red flag is appearing.

And that is returning our country to years and the Bantustans or ethnicity.

Government of course, is irresponsible.


By this I mean the trend towards the strengthening of the role of traditional leaders in law, the buying of Amakhosi and Izinduna by government, the elevation of the tribal court system, and unwillingness by government to ensure security of tenure in our rural communities.
One can‘t help but wonder if, instead of that, the poor and vulnerable own landers, the ANC-led UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 61 government wants the poor to be dependent on the state.

Thank you.

Mr A F MADELLA: Hon House Chairperson, Minister Nkwinti, Deputy Ministers, hon members, our director-general, distinguished guests, comrades and friends, good morning.

I wish to start by clearly indicating that the ANC supports this Budget Vote.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

I am profoundly honoured and privileged to be able to participate in this Budget Vote debate today.

I owe this honour and privilege to the thousands of compatriots who made the ultimate sacrifice in the fight for our liberation from colonialism and apartheid over 342 years until we emerged from the ashes of apartheid and colonialism on 27 April 1994.

Yes, hon Minister, land dispossession has taken place over centuries.
The knowledge that our freedom was not delivered on a silver platter guides me and my party – and, I‘m sure all of us – in our quest to advance and deepen the quest to fulfil the aspirations of our people in building a united, nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous country for the benefit of UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 62 all our people.
More importantly, we cannot forget the legacy of injustice so that we do indeed focus purposely and systematically on those who have been neglected, oppressed, marginalised and deprived of opportunities for economic advancement by consecutive colonial and apartheid governments.

In debating this Rural Development and Land Reform Budget Vote, I am reminded of a seminal observation on the question of land, as reflected in the ANC Strategy and Tactics document adopted at the Morogoro Conference in 1969.
Let me say here, in honouring Oliver Tambo, that this was a conference organised and presided over by this giant of a leader, a visionary, a unifier – Oliver Reginald Tambo.

This observation is: ―It is inconceivable for liberation to have a meaning without a return of the wealth of the land to the people as a whole.‖ I think this is very, very important.
Hon Groenewald, we cannot talk about transformation and land reform without clearly making sure that we return the wealth of the land to the people as a whole.

The people as a whole have been marginalised – I indicated that very, very clearly – purposefully and systematically over centuries.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 63 Mr P J GROENEWALD: Transfer the title deeds!

The CHAIRPERSON (Mrs Y N Phosa): Order!


Mr A F MADELLA: This emphasises the centrality of access to land and land ownership to the quest for economic prosperity.

The Strategy and Tactics document warns us, further, of the dire consequences we will face if we ignore this fact when it says that freedom must be more than political democracy - the right to vote.
The warning is: ―To allow the existing economic forces to retain their interests intact is to feed the root of racial supremacy and does not represent even the shadow of liberation.‖ If we leave things, hon Hlengwa, unaltered, as we found them in 1994, then surely we have failed this liberation?

I therefore I agree one hundred percent with your call.

The restoration of land rights is therefore a critical task of this government and a core mandate of this department, led by hon Minister Nkwinti.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 64 Hon members, comrades and friends, instructively the ANC NEC, through our President, His Excellency Jacob Zuma, at our 105th anniversary this year in Soweto told us: ―It is time to return the land to our people.‖ The President went further and acknowledged the progress made in land reform and land redistribution, as led by Minister Nkwinti, his deputies Mashego-Dlamini and Comrade Skwatsha.
But he reminded us that the legacies of apartheid were still very much in evidence when he said, ―Too many of our people continue to suffer from the historic injustices perpetrated by the horrendous land dispossessions.‖ He called on all of us to demonstrate ―courage and determination to ensure that the land is returned to the people‖.
We all know today that the then 1913 Land Act uprooted and banished the majority of black people, squeezing them into 13% of the land, and that through ordinances dispossessed the descendants of the Khoi and the San people from the land that they had lived on.

In addition, the notorious Group Areas Act uprooted and displaced thousands of coloured families.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 65 The question of expropriation without compensation is a matter of serious consideration by us as the ruling party, and, as we review all policies in preparation for our 54th national conference in December, we will certainly look at that also.

As the ANC, we must increase the pace of land reform and land redistribution.

We must deal with the issues of the Khoi and the San peoples.

Thank you very much.

[Time expired.]


[Applause.]

Ms C DUDLEY: Chair, the National Development Plan, or NDP, which the ACDP supported, includes activities for creating an integrated and inclusive rural economy.
This, we understand, must include the creation of jobs in communal areas; expanding commercial agriculture; making land reform work; developing nonagricultural activities; developing human capital; ensuring social security, food security and basic services; ensuring farm worker empowerment and labour relations.

No small task, hon Minister.

The ACDP calls on the Minister not to overlook the importance of ensuring that people receive basic services in the areas where they live.
This is important for many reasons, but also important because if we don‘t, people will be drawn, in ever UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 66 greater numbers, to urban areas that are already overstretched in terms of the provision of services.
On the land question, the ACDP appreciates the vigorous debate within the majority party on this issue and is encouraged that some leaders are not taking lightly the danger of expropriating land without considering food production.

The ANC secretary-general, for example, has noted that Zimbabwe‘s failure to value agriculture in its land redistribution has translated into starvation.

―Land is not just economics,‖ he is quoted as saying.

―It‘s a sensitive issue.


We want to ensure that there is better management of it.

It‘s a complex issue.

If you play to the gallery, you will set the country on fire.

We need to manage it better‖ he has said, and the ACDP couldn‘t agree more.
Zimbabwe‘s Minister of Tourism, Walter Mzembi, has also warned of the consequences of taking President Mugabe‘s route – reportedly cautioning South Africa not to copy Zimbabwe‘s land reform agenda - saying black business economic empowerment has UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 67 been more important and successful in South Africa and urging South Africa to evolve its own model.
According to the NDP, agriculture has the potential to expand and create an additional one million jobs.

The ACDP welcomes the move towards government and business making an effort to create sustainable partnerships, partnerships that will provide skills and experience.

For successful models on partnership of course, we need only look at the sugar industry – the country‘s largest agricultural employer.
The ACDP is of the opinion that not only solid, rational leadership in land reform and communal tenure security are needed, but that we also need Treasury and the department to actively provide for infrastructural plus financial and technical support to farmers.

To get good at anything, you have to do it over and over and over again.

And that‘s a fact.

You also have to be good at what you do just to survive, and you must be even better to be competitive.
Without support while skills are being developed, the chances of survival, let alone success, are very slim.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 68 According to researchers, beneficiaries of land reform too often remain poor and dependent on state social grants for survival even many years after land restitution.
Inadequate post- settlement support, a lack of skills, poor planning and infighting within communities are some of the reasons that despite a strong desire to grow crops, success is elusive.

The CHAIRPERSON (Mrs Y N Phosa): Hon member, round up.
Ms C DUDLEY: At the same time, no money ... Well, let me round up by saying that while we understand the challenges of transitional justice, the ACDP is unlikely to support the budget because of our concern that even the R10 billion will not be adequate to the task if we don‘t deal with the fraud and corruption involved.

Thank you, hon Minister.


Ms T M MBABAMA: Chairperson, ladies and gentlemen, the Constitution provides in section 25(6) that a person or community whose tenure of land is legally insecure, as a result of past racially discriminatory laws or practices, is entitled to tenure which is legally secure or to comparable redress.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 69 Section 25(9) provides that Parliament must enact that legislation.
Chapter 6 of the National Development Plan which advocates for An Integrated and Inclusive Rural Economy, states: There will be integrated rural areas, where residents will be economically active, have food security, access to basic services, health care and quality education.

Achieving this vision will require leadership on land reform and communal tenure security ... among other things ... to implement these interventions.
This is a critical and relevant vision indeed and one that the DA agrees with wholeheartedly.

What the commissioners who wrote the NDP did not perhaps realise was that there was and still is no leadership competency in the ANC to implement this plan.

[Interjections.]

Six years down the line the plan is challenged by delays in legislation, insufficient budgets, bureaucratic bungling, corruption and incompetent government officials.
In June 2016, King Zwelithini announced plans for those residing on Ingonyama Trust land to be awarded title deeds.

The chairperson of the Ingonyama Trust Board later explained that UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 70 the task would take many years to conclude and would require funds from central government to implement.

Strangely enough there is no provision in their budget to kick-start this initiative.

IsiXhosa: Abantu basalindile nangoku.


English: The ANC‘s policies on communal land have, like their economic policies, benefited a narrow, political elite of traditional leaders, at the expense of the rural masses.
In her July 2014 article, titled: ―Communal Land‖, Property Rights and Traditional Leadership, Aninka Claassens states that the present ANC government has rejected the post-94 rights‘-based approach to land reform in favour of outsourcing power and control over 17 million plus South Africans to traditional leaders in a context where power relations are notoriously unequal.
These unequal power relations have resulted in rural residents being taken advantage of and deals being made on their land by some corrupt and unscrupulous traditional leaders who see UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 71 opportunities for self-enrichment.

Often, unelected and illegitimate traditional elites have acted unilaterally, authorising mining activities on communal land, without consulting their communities.
Why does the ANC insist on denying rural communities their land rights?

A decisive and efficient DA government will fast-track communal tenure legislation ...

[Interjections.]

... and start off by securing tenure rights for the dispossessed rural dwellers in the former TBVC territories.

[Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON (Mrs Y N Phosa): Order!

Ms T M MBABAMA: In a DA-led government, rural residents will be economically ...
The CHAIRPERSON (Mrs Y N Phosa): Hon members, please don‘t drown out the speaker.

Ms T M MBABAMA: ... active as the asset they live on will legally belong to them and not to the government.

Decisions UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 72 pertaining to the land will not be made for them by traditional authorities in a patriarchal and patronising system reminiscent of their experiences under the apartheid government.
We will be forever grateful to the many individuals who made untold sacrifices to free our beloved country from the shackles of apartheid.

We will never forget them.

However, it is now time to hand over the baton to a new order, to a swifter, more inclusive and forward-looking party, the DA.

Enkosi.

[Time expired.]

[Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C Mashego-Dlamini): Hon Chairperson, our Minister, our Deputy Minister present here, ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

Mr M L W FILTANE: Point of order, Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, take your seat.

Hon member, on what Rule are you rising?

Mr M L W FILTANE: Rule 91.

I think there is a letter missing.

Maybe it should have been K F C Mashego Dlamini.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 73 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Your point of order is not sustained.

Shall we proceed?

Order!


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C Mashego-Dlamini): ... distinguished guests, Acting Director- General and our management who are present here, fellow South Africans, hon members, I want to set the scene today with a quote from our first democratic President, and I quote: Overcoming poverty is not a task of charity; it is an act of justice.

Like Slavery and Apartheid, poverty is not natural.
It is man-made and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings.

Sometimes it falls on a generation to be great.

YOU can be that great generation.

Let your greatness blossom.

In May 1994, with an inauguration of the first democratic President, our fight to restore the dignity of South Africa begins.

This went down in history as the most significant in our minds and the world at large.

It is the day that changed the political landscape of our country and the world.
Indeed, UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 74 Chairperson, we have moved miles since 1994 to become one of the respected democracies in the world.
As we work towards the rebuilding of our country after decades of colonialism of a special type and statutory apartheid, which brought hatred, division and racism amongst the people of one flesh and one blood, these words still resonate in our minds and influence our thinking as we progress in the total liberation of our people.

On 11 May 2016, we presented our departmental Budget Vote, clearly indicating what we would do to address the triple challenge of poverty, inequality and unemployment.
Hon Chairperson, in the 2016-17 financial year, the department has implemented 179 Animal and Veld Management project, 7 River Valley Catalytic project, 69 Socioeconomic and 53 Agri-park related infrastructure projects.

The implementation of these infrastructure projects has had significant impact in our rural communities by creating 1 574 jobs, employing 422 women and 911 youth.
The projects impacted UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 75 in 22 194 households.

The targets for 2017-18 is to create 3 612 jobs through the infrastructure projects.

Hon members, one of the key initiative announced in the 2015 state of the nation address was the Agri-park programme.

I am pleased to announce that significant progress has been made to date.
The Agri-parks programme seeks to improve production by small holder farmers, improve access to markets and engagement in the agricultural value chain.

Hon Chairperson, three Agri-hubs are already operational in Ncora, Springbokpan and Westonaria.

There are currently 11 additional Agri-hubs in the 44 districts where construction is taking place.

These are in Butterworth, an abattoir is under construction.

Farmers in the surrounding areas are being mobilised to supply red meat to the abattoir.
In Ncora the fencing and irrigation infrastructure have been constructed.

In Thaba Nchu, the Abattoir has been upgraded, the access road has been re-gravelled and the boundary fences have been completed.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 76 The Springbok Agri-hub in the Xhariep District is being developed and the fencing and water connection have been completed.

Hon President recently visited the Westonaria Agri-park.
This facility includes state of the art vertical hydroponic tunnels as well as a pack house and training facility amongst other supporting infrastructure.

In Bushbuckridge, a pack house and cold storage facility will become fully operational this financial year.

In Dr J S Moroka municipality, within the Nkangala District Municipality, a fresh produce market is completed and the facility will become fully operational this financial year.
In the Capricorn Agri-hub, the provincial government has completed the Raletjena Packhouse dryer for the black farmers.

In Nwanedi Pack house is under construction, and on completion in the current financial year.

[Applause.]

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 77 In Ceres, we have completed the upgraded road and electrical supply.

In Springbokpan 3 950 hectors of sunflower, maize, were harvested and taken to the silos.
To date, 249 jobs have been created and 61 farmers have been supported in this area.

[Applause.]

In the 2016-17 financial year, the implementation of the Animal and Veld Management Programme resulted in 2 359 community members being trained in basic veld firefighting, creating firebreaks, re-greening, soil rehabilitation, de-bushing and first aid.

One thousand four hundred and forty of the community members trained were women and 1 575 were youth.

Ten were people with disabilities.


In 2016-17 financial year, the department implemented seven River Valley Catalytic projects to revitalise four irrigation schemes on 2 000 hectors in KwaZulu-Natal and Mpumalanga.

These include Ndumo, Mthandeni, Buffelspruit, Figtree and Madadeni schemes.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 78 In this financial year, the rural infrastructure unit has prioritise to implement 120 projects supporting production in the 44 Agri-parks, at a value R264 million.

To support the revitalisation of rural towns and villages, the department in 2016-17 financial year, completed the Western Cape, the upgrading of gravel roads, walkways and construction of a storm water system in Kassiesbaai.
This project was implemented to provide access to launch boats at the harbour and to control storm water.

Furthermore, 1,2 kilometre roads were paved.

In 2017-18 financial year, 30 socioeconomic infrastructure projects will be completed at the investment of R252 million, which will result in creating 2 530 jobs.

Skills development is an important component of the radical socioeconomic transformation and to this end, we will skill 1 480 rural people as part of the rural disaster mitigation programme.
The department has also implemented the rural ICT programme.

In 2016-17 financial year, we delivered learners infrastructure to 44 schools in all provinces, supporting more than 10 000 UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 79 learners ...

[Applause.]

... to provide access to latest education technology and teaching aids respectively.

The purpose of this project is to identify and deploy cost effective educational ICT technology to rural communities.
Hon Chairperson, youth development and employment is the cornerstone of economic transformation.

Since 2010, the department has implemented a National Rural Youth Service Corps programme.

In 2016-17 financial year, the National Rural Youty Services Corps, Narysec, Programme recruited 2 700 youth from all nine provinces aligned to the Agri-parks.
This will ensure that the youth are skilled in the essential skills required to participate in the enterprise and industrial opportunities to operationalise the Agri-parks.

In the 2017-18 financial year, we will be investing R427 million to recruit 2 700 new youth and graduate 2 132 youth in various essential skills programmes.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 80 Hon Chairperson, we should mention that Thaba Nchu Narysec College is now fully operational and being upgraded as we speak, it is becoming a centre for skills development that is not only servicing the Narysec Programme but the wider public sector.

In 2016-17, the department has supported rural enterprise aligned in Agricultural Policy Action Plan and the Industrial Policy Action Plan.
A total of 161 enterprises were supported within the red meat, grains, cotton, poultry, wool, goat and horticulture value chain.

[Applause.]

With these projects, we have facilitated the creation of 4 690 jobs opportunities, which has resulted in increased income generation for the communities involved.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon Deputy Minister, roundup.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C Mashego-Dlamini): Hon Chairperson, in arts and craft, we need to indicate that we have finished establishing our Co-operative UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 81 Bank.

Our people are now banking their money in their own bank as cooperatives.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

We are also wanted to indicate that we are supporting a young girl who is present here called Fezile Khoza, who has established his Fezizza Pizza of its own kind.

We have set aside 600 000 to support the Pizza ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, your time is up.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C Mashego-Dlamini): ... of Fezile.

I thank you.

[Applause.]

Mr P D N MALOYI: Hon Chair, may I address you in terms of Rule 84?
As a show of respect to you and the Deputy Minister, I did not rise earlier on.

The hon Filtane rose on a frivolous point of order, saying the Deputy Minister should be referred to as the ―KFC‖.

In terms of Rule 84, that is insulting, disrespectful, unbecoming and unparliamentary.

[Interjections.]

Unfortunately, in your ruling, UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 82 you did not say he must withdraw that.
I would like him to withdraw that reference to the Deputy Minister as ―KFC‖.

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Alright.

Well, hon Whip, immediately after the hon Filtane rose, I actually ruled that that was not a point of order, which means there is already an existing ruling.

In future, if you rise, please rise immediately after the point of order.

[Interjections.]

Thank you very much.

Order!

Order!


Ms N W MAGADLA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Nkwinti and the two hon Deputy Ministers, hon members, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, 2017 is the year of celebrating the life of Oliver Reginald Tambo, the champion of political liberation and economic emancipation for the people of South Africa.

This was reiterated by President Jacob Zuma during the state of the nation address in February 2017, during which he also called for radical economic transformation.
This means fundamental change in the structure, systems, institutions, patterns of ownership, management and control of the economy in favour of all South Africans, especially the poor.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 83 As the ANC, we therefore see 2017 as the year in which to strengthen the programme of radical socioeconomic transformation in memory of our heroes.
The ANC made this decision because South African citizens are growing impatient with the slow pace of economic transformation, which has left the majority trapped in poverty and economically disempowered.

This is more evident in the rural areas, where the majority of the poor are found.

IsiXhosa: Sihlalo, singumbutho olawulayo asikwazi ukuba sisonge izandla babe abantu bethu behlupheka emakhaya.
English: In 2009, our government initiated the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme, CRDP, to address the scourge of poverty in rural areas.

The CRDP contributes to Outcome 7 of the Medium- Term Strategic Framework for 2014-19, which emanates from the ANC‘s manifesto and the National Development Plan.

Outcome 7 aims at creating vibrant, equitable and sustainable rural communities with food security for all.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 84 Through the implementation of the CRDP, infrastructure for basic services has been provided in rural areas for the provision of electricity, water and sanitation, as well as the building of clinics, houses, roads, community halls, multipurpose centres, and so forth.

The CRDP has also contributed to food security through the establishment of household and community gardens in rural areas.
IsiXhosa: Sihlalo, siyaqhuba singulo rhulumente ukhokelwa nguKhongolose.

English: Agri-parks have been established in all 44 district municipalities which serve to revitalise agriculture and agro- processing in the country.

Agri-parks are a government initiative to facilitate rural economic transformation in order to ensure the creation of sustainable jobs and empower rural communities and smallholder farmers to be part of the agricultural value chain, in line with the National Development Plan.
UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 85 Since the inception of the Agri-parks, as the Deputy Minister has indicated, three agri-hubs are operational: Ncora, in the Eastern Cape; Springbokpan, in the North West; and Westonaria, in Gauteng.

These are expected to bring investment and create a class of black smallholder farmers and producers linked to markets in those selected, poor areas.
Approximately 10 566 smallholder farmers have been identified to benefit from Agri- parks, and 69 692 hectares of land have been distributed.

IsiXhosa: Nantsi ke enye Sihlalo... English: ... the One Household, One Hectare programme was launched in October 2015.

The main purpose of the programme is to promote food security and improve rural livelihoods through allocating land to selected beneficiaries for subsistence farming.

The bigger plan is to transform the rural economy.


Households are supported to produce for consumption needs and organised into primary co-operatives linked to the Agri-parks initiative.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 86 As an extension to the One Household, One Hectare programme, the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform introduced the One Hectare, Two Dairy Cows initiative.
Each household in dairy- producing areas is given two head of cattle to contribute towards the production of dairy products.

IsiXhosa: Sihlalo, singurhulumente asibayekelelanga abantu abatsha basezilalini.

English: The National Rural Youth Service Corps, Narysec, was launched in September 2010 and has been rolled out in all provinces.

As the hon Hlengwa indicated, the department is trying with all its muscles to improve Narysec with its small budget.
In conclusion, it is clear that this budget addresses the needs of rural people and aims at empowering them to participate in the economy of the country.

Therefore, the ANC supports Budget Vote No 39.

I thank you, Chairperson.

[Applause.]


UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 87 Mr T C R WALTERS: Chairperson, I would like to start by extending a genuine word of thanks to the Minister for acknowledging the DA‘s successes in land reform in the Western Cape and also our critique of the reopening of the land claims process.
This Budget Vote debate presents a choice in our country that needs to be unpacked for any discussion on land reform to be genuinely meaningful.

How we deal with this choice can deeply affect the lives of South Africans in the years to come.

What we do in this Parliament is the difference between a dream coming true, or not; of real people having futures, or not; a family going hungry, or not.

It is not a game, and real lives are involved.


It is our duty as an opposition party and, alternatively, as a governing party, to strongly challenge assumptions and highlight the choice between the alternatives that are being made.

We also do so looking at this moment and its choices through the prism of a set of core values.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 88 The DA has, at the core of its belief system, belief in the individual.
Before one is part of a class, race, colour or ethnic group, one is an individual.

For us, it therefore stands to reason that, unless what we do changes and makes a difference to the lives of individuals, anything else is mere layers of obfuscation standing in the way of change.

Advancing individuals in nondestructive tandem with one another is synonymous with progress.

It‘s about freedom, fairness and opportunity.


All of this, of course, must be done in a contextually intelligent manner which takes into account our particular history and what shapes the lives of individuals, especially the forgotten rural poor.

In short, we make our choices and judge this budget and its concomitant legislation based on the extent to which it advances these values.
This budget is meant to support a flurry of legislation coming to us that also provides further context to what we are doing.

That can briefly be summarised as follows.

It aims to limit land ownership in order to expand the role of the state.
The upcoming Regulation of Agricultural Land Holdings Bill is essentially aimed at dumping a lot of land on the market UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 89 in the belief that that will advance access to land and advance the poor.

It aims to secure a privileged position for the state as an operator, price-setter, purchaser and distributor of land.
The new draft regulations for the valuation of land aim at setting a standardised land-pricing system towards this objective.

All of this is superficially founded on a belief that the state is the vehicle of change in society, and our budgets are also being led by these assumptions.

These assumptions are not borne out by the facts and we believe the underlying problems are simply being sidestepped.
The same ANC-led government which wants more power and more control has shown that it is the very reason why land reform is failing and we cannot have more of the same.

It‘s not that we are going too fast or that the government is going too fast for the people.

The people are waiting for the government.

More than R80 billion has largely been wasted in a commercial rural land market estimated at a size of R192 billion.
Billions and billions that could have been spent on land reform were lost UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 90 each year by the ANC-led government in wasteful expenditure, fiscal dumping without meeting targets and, of course, the ANC‘s perennial bed partner, corruption.

The government blames the willing-buyer, willing-seller principle, but the truth is that acquisition is so mismanaged that it often takes years to process sales.
A massive failure rate in creating successful farming ventures exists.

In 2011, this government had a 90% failure rate in its land reform ventures.

It improved in this term, on the face of it, to what the ANC is proud of: a 73% failure rate when recap funding was used to support the failing projects.

Of course, this is not inherently dealing with the problem but is simply throwing money at what are, essentially, becoming state- supported farms.
The ANC did nothing to ensure title deeds - or at least proper long-term tenure - are secured for occupants of state or communal land.

This prevents the rural poor from accessing opportunities in the market place and making these desperately poor, forgotten areas prosper and attract investment.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 91 The same applies to beneficiaries of land reform who have no title deeds.
They are, in truth, exploited labour on inefficient, state-owned farms.

A state interested in advancing the poor and having individuals advance themselves would not have underfunded, delayed and politically abused land claims, as the recent Constitutional Court finding in this regard underscores.

Ask land claimants who have been waiting for their claims to be resolved since the late 1990s.
Today, beneficiaries without ownership of land are still reliant on support by strategic partners chosen by a government more interested in helping its cronies advance themselves than interested in supporting beneficiaries achieve their dreams.

Ask the beneficiaries of Nirwanda Farm in the Hex River Valley how they benefited from their strategic partner - a close, and should I say, safe, ally and funder of the ruling party.
It is now clear that the ANC prefers to keep the poor from owning property by stealing their futures and sustaining the colonial and apartheid practice of keeping the poor dependent on UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 92 government.

It uses poverty and state largesse as mechanisms to maintain a voting bloc for itself.
We cannot therefore accept that, somehow, the very state that has shown itself to be the single biggest enemy of the poor is the vehicle of change.

Now, government is intending to introduce legislation and regulations that will destroy the value of land, potentially ruin our financial – and not only agricultural – sector, and drive away internal and external investment, again destroying hopes and dreams.
It tries to provide political cover by stoking racial division – vra ons Noordwes Premier [ask our North West Premier], stereotyping commercial farmers as the obstacle and creating lightning conductors from their failure, even if those lightning conductors, in truth, do not exist.

There is a real choice that can be made, because successful land reform is happening.

The DA challenges ANC-led governments to emulate our successes in share equity schemes based on win-win partnerships.
These have success rates of between 60% and 80%.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time has expired.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 93 Mr T C R WALTERS: It should follow the DA metros example of vastly accelerated provision of title deeds to the poor.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time has expired.

Mr T C R WALTERS: We believe the poor should own land!
Mr P J MNGUNI: House Chair, Hon Minister, deputy ministers, hon members led by the Chair of the committee members of the House, our guests, good morning.

It is a pity that the hon Walters‘ time expired because I was still listening.

I wanted to hear what his party has to offer.

Next time I will bargain that he gets about 100 minutes because I was really grappling to get him.

You and I meet almost every week.

Let us go back to history and talk about individual rights.
As far as I have known, it was the ANC that did not agree to the group rights at the negotiations.

They agreed to individual rights because by securing rights of the individual you automatically secure the rights of the group.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 94 Remember when your predecessors, at negotiations, wanted to tie us down to minority rights.

I do know that you still hold profoundly the notion of minority rights.
Let us, as the ANC, admit two things to our people at home and everywhere else.

We agree that the pace of transformation has been very slow in so far as land reform.

We take responsibility for that but to a great extent it is a complex issue.

Hon Dudley of the ACDP was correct that it is a very complex field with its own land mines.

We take responsibility, however, you are comparing over 360 years with 23 years.
You expect the damage that was done by the white colonialist to have been wiped out and all land restored and restituted in 23 years.

That, to a very great extent is a myth; it would have been impossible.

We apologise to our people and admit that we may have been slow, but we do assure our people that no party could have done better; we know the array of parties in this House and anywhere else.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 95 The second area on which we unreservedly apologise to our people is the area of corruption.

We do put ourselves in line.

As a whip in the committee, I also do offer services of the Chair.

If you pick up issues of corruption please report to us.
I will give examples of corruption we have confronted in the committee: Doctor Mancotywa in Lusikisiki who is also a farmer in his own right, talent and passion is in process of buying a farm in Kokstad.

All of a sudden the department buys that farm at R1 million more than the price that Dr M Mancotywa was going to buy with via the commercial banks for that matter.

Clearly, we have a case of corruption.


We are following it; we have spoken to the Minister and the department about it and we think that it was very unfortunate and unfair.

It is not the ANC; it is happening somewhere in the corridors of the machinery.

DA remember that you said we may not deploy cadres.

So, somewhere in administration we have free travellers who probably come from your ranks, you know ...

[Laughter.]
[Laughter.]

Otherwise allow UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 96 us to deploy every public service administration cadre ourselves then we will deal with corruption.

[Interjections.]

Hon Steyn, just listen you will like this.

On corruption, an emerging timber producer at Umzimkhulu seeks to buy a timber farm in Harding via the state support.
In the process, one nameless official comes all the way from Pretoria and tells the buyer to give them R1 million and they will facilitate the application.

The department is here and listening and they know that we have taken up the issue because that is corruption.

The emerging timber farmer who was serving in the state who took his pension money and bought all the equipment needs to be assisted.

We have talked about this, the Minister, the Acting Director General and everyone else is aware.
On corruption out there, when the story is told that the ANC is corrupt, let it be told that, ―But we have heard the ANC voices standing up very loudly against corruption‖ – we cite cases; give us more cases of corruption and we will deal with them.

[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 97 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order!

Hon members.

Mr P J MNGUNI: Unless you ask for the impossible.


You have heard voices from within the ANC clearly supporting the Judicial Commission of Inquiry.

Hon from the IFP, you talked about the Guptas and capture.

Capture is very deep.

Hon Hlengwa, I suspect that the syllabus you studied captured you and promoted your mentality towards capitalist lines.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Mnguni, will you take your seat please?

Hon Hlengwa, take your seat.

[Interjections.]


Ms A STEYN: Can the member take a question?

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Why are you rising hon member?

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 98 Ms A STEYN: Will the member take a question?

I can give him some examples.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Mnguni, are you prepared to take a question?

Mr P J MNGUNI: After I finish House Chair, I will gladly accept.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you hon member, take your seat.

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chair ...

[Interjections.]

Mr P J MNGUNI: Write me a note as I speak hon Steyn.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Mnguni, take your seat please.

There is another point of order.

Why are you rising hon member?

Mr M HLENGWA: The member is misleading the House.

But let me add this: The curriculum I studied ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 99 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is the point of order?

[Interjections.]

Mr M HLENGWA: ... was developed by the ANC ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): That is a pint of debate hon member.

Take your seat.

Mr M HLENGWA: So it was your curriculum ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Take your seat.

Continue hon member.


Mr P J MNGUNI: [Laughter.]

The ANC is so powerful; it is there in the tertiary universities and everywhere.

It taught hon Hlengwa.

So, you are a student and a product of the ANC hon Hlengwa.

Come back home then, we will welcome you.

Hon House Chair, whenever we stood up here, we traced the issue of land back to colonialism.

Hon Matiase, you didn‘t do badly; I think it is because your Commander in Chief and others were not here.
You were right in the Marx‘s text you quoted; we firmly UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 100 agree with the better part of what you said save though that you had to say certain other things that you know are ultra left and not practically applicable.

We have always traced the land question to colonialism and colonialism to its ideological father imperialism.

Why would Simon van der Stel come all the way to South Africa?
He came because he was seeking ground and land for exploitation as part of the imperialist agenda.

Democratic Alliance, please talk to us about imperialism whenever you get a chance.

We suspect that you don‘t even know that imperialism exist.

Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism by the way.
We have always stood here and talked to our people and the opposition parties that apartheid itself dislodged our people in so far as land, the Group Areas Act and so forth but we have characterised it as having a legacy of three features which remain to date: the race, class and gender.

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 101 I have been asked to wrap up ANC components of discussions.
It is now fashionable in the opposition parties to call on the ANC and say conscience this, conscience that.

We want to advise you that if you vote on any Bill on any matter on conscience, it is your issue.

We, in the ANC, vote on consciousness.

Consciousness is that which defines that you have to have a liberation movement that has to be a vanguard and its vanguard role has to fulfil certain specific tasks of the National Democratic Revolution, NDR.
Therefore, in the ANC - now and any other time - call on us to vote on our consciousness.

It is not English by the way; it is politics.

Some of you are English first language speakers.

We vote on consciousness!

We dare not liquidate our vanguard.

It is a small difference to just go back, think about and learn.

The conscience you are talking about is about subjectivity; my feeling.

Our consciousness is about objectivity; the highest form of reflection of matter.
Under conscience you liquidate and under our consciousness we assert the authority of the vanguard and liberate true solidarity.

Under your conscience, you know no sacrifice and under our consciousness we sacrifice to the end UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 102 like the biblical Abraham who was prepared to sacrifice.
We make the supreme sacrifice like Solomon Mahlangu and all other heroes of Umkhonto weSizwe of the ANC, South African Communist Party, SACP and Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu.

We vote on consciousness!

The political basis for conscience is not known.

We, in the ANC, talk about consciousness and the political basis is to advance our own agenda – the National Democratic Revolution.

Hon Matiase, we rejected a 6% and we told you the reasons; we are not about some Zimbabwe style.
Go to your social media and media now and you will find that the Minister had a press conference in the morning.

Even while he stood here earlier before me, he made it clear that we are not going the route of land grabs.

We are not appeasing these ones next you – you are the ones who appease them and give them power everywhere.

We are not going to give them power because they represent our strategic opponents.

We only sit and seek to persuade.


UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 103 Go back to hon Floyd Shivambu and your Commander in Chief - I think the think tank there is Floyd ne?

Tell them that when you have power to dish, you must dish to your big brother - the ANC.

It has taught you, developed you and has given you all that you have even as EFF.

Besides that small ultra left inclination of yours, your political basics seem to be our own political basics.
Going forward Chair, Hon Walters, We hear that there is a critical objection.

Your colleague would rather not disturb you now because there is a response.

You said there seems to be a problem of reopening restitution.

People who are displaced ...

[Interjections.

]That is what you said here ...

[Interjections.]

Okay, thank you.

We all agree that we will reopen restitution and one of our own is working on a draft Bill to reopen it.

We thank you.

The ANC supports the Bill.

[Time expired.]


[Applause.]

The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Chair, First of all let me thank all the hon members who spoke here with no exception.

Thank you very much, we accept your criticism and we appreciate your support.

Yes, we have established a Chief UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 104 Directorate from 1 April, hon chair of the portfolio committee in the question of the farm-dwellers.
We have established a Chief Directorate on 1 April to deal directly and focus on this matter.

The question of the title deeds is true.

The problem is that, when we started the department in 2009, already we have lost 5% of land which have been bought and redistributed to people.

They went to the banks, including the Land Bank by the way.

They couldn‘t service debt and the land was taken back, by whom?

By the same white people from whom the land had been purchased.
Again, by the time we started the department in 2009, there were 14 farms which were about to be auctioned by the Land Bank.

We put in R208 million immediately, to stop that.

In other words we saved them.

That money is still with the Land Bank because we are watching and guarding it and we said that, we are not giving out title deeds until we stabilise this land reform market.
Yes, hon Robertson, we have established a policy research and development unit headed by the Deputy Director-General, DDG, Swartz.

We have moved him from rates.

That is one of the things that we have just done.

You know, hon Matiase, you quoted Maqoma UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 105 and others.

You know what?
You know what?

The one big mistake that Makhanda Nxele did in 1819, he sent the message to the British colonialist army at Fort Tingle and told the British army that he is going to have a breakfast with them on that following day.

He didn‘t realise that he was giving them a tip that he was going to attack them.

He then attacked them, unfortunately, we lost.

Thank hon Hlengwa, we take the point that you have raised very well.
We have asked the University of Zululand because they have a unit which researches the old claims.

We are therefore finalising the research in order to finalise the claims.

That is also one of the things that have been raised by hon Khubisa.

Lastly, hon Chair, right now we‘ve just concluded the second phase of the land audit before the Cabinet.

The copy of the report will be circulated to the hon members as soon as it is concluded.
The last thing is that, hon Waters - I like him by the way, Phumi, - he talks about individualism, but there is a clash of cultures here.

You see, I don‘t know what the hon Mbabama is teaching hon Waters here.

I say this because she comes from communalism UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 106 basis.

So there is a clash of cultures here, you know!

[Laughter.]
[Laughter.]

We have got this culture that we own things collectively, but it is the neo-liberalists that say that the individual is more supreme than the collective, etc.

I therefore don‘t know how the hon members who come from the communalist culture, not communalism.

Like I said, there is a clash of cultures here.

There is this one small thing, hon Mbabama listen to this, and it‘s a friendly one.
You know about this lady that was called Nongqawuse, one big trick that the colonists did, they knew that the Africans are very sensitive about water, the rivers etc.

So, what they did is this, they climbed on a tree and stood on it and told people to burn all their things because their ancestors would come back, and when they were getting the water from the river, they saw the picture of a white man.
They then went back to tell that they have seen their ancestors who told them to burn all the food, kill the livestock etc.

That is what Nongqawuse did.

So, be careful of these guys!

Thank you very much, Chair.

[Applause.]

UNREVISED HANSARD MINI-PLENARY – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2017 Page: 107 The mini-plenary session rose at 12:00.