Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698832615244.pdf (South Africa)
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 1 TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ____ The House met at 14:00.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
WELCOMING OF NEW MEMBERS (Announcement) The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, before we proceed with today’s business I wish to announce that the vacancy which occurred due to the passing away of Ms J M Mofokeng has been filled by the nomination of Ms A Ramolobeng with effect from 23 June 2021.
The vacancy which occurred owing to Mr M Nyhontso’s loss of membership of the National Assembly in terms of section 47(3)(c) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 2 1996 has been filled by the nomination of Mr B Joko with effect from 23 June 2021.

The members have made and subscribed the oath and affirmation with the Deputy Speaker through the virtual platform.
I welcome you hon members wherever you are seated or if you are on virtual platform.

Lastly members, as usual, we do wish to appeal to you to generally stick to where you are allocated a seat, keep your mask on and observe social distancing or physical distance, - appropriately I think, for the safety of all of us.

The secretary will read the first to the third orders together.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE ON OVERSIGHT TO REVIEW MILITARY DEPLOYMENTS AS PART OF OPERATION PROSPER IN KWAZULU-NATAL AND GAUTENG PROVINCES OVER 20 TO 21 JULY 2021 CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO KWAZULU-NATAL AND GAUTENG PROVINCES TO ASSESS IMPACT OF VIOLENT PROTESTS FROM 19 TO 21 JULY 2021 UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 3 CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HOME AFFAIRS ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO KWAZULU-NATAL AND GAUTENG PROVINCES Sesotho: MOTLATSI WA SEPIKARA: Ntate Maphatsoe, bua re o mametse.
English: Are you connected?

Please indicate if you are not we are going to skip you.

Chief Whip, you ought to have his speech with you so that you speak on his behalf.

Can you do that?

Mr T N MMUTLE: Can we move to the next speaker whilst we try to locate hon Maphatsoe.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s ok. We are proceeding.

Hon Terblanche, are you connected?

M.Gen O S TERBLANCHE: Yes, Deputy Speaker I am.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, ntate.


M.Gen O S TERBLANCHE: Hon Deputy Speaker, members and fellow South Africans, the scale of the violent protests and riots that followed the incarceration of former President Jacob Zuma UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 4 was so severe that the Portfolio Committee on Police deemed it necessary ... [no sound] ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Terblanche, you are muted, please unmute!

M.Gen O S TERBLANCHE: Deputy Speaker, I was not muted.
Must I start from scratch?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You don’t have to start from scratch just proceed where you were.

You were muted, we could not hear you.

– It doesn’t matter who did it.

Don’t debate things that are unnecessary you wasting time also.

Go ahead.

M.Gen O S TERBLANCHE: ... it is now abundantly clear that the allocated budget and available timeframe made it impossible to do justice to the crisis that we encounter.
The meeting on the first day started with briefings by both the South African National Defence Force, SANDF, and South African Police Service, SAPS, and members were allocated to ask questions for clarity.

Other role players were also allowed to participate and ask questions about the results but there was unfortunately not sufficient time left to visit the affected areas.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 5 Members had to rush to the airport to catch their flight to Gauteng for their oversight visit the next morning.

During the Gauteng oversight the following sites were visited: Jabulani mall, Protea Glen mall, Maponya mall.

This time around members were not allowed to ask any questions and were merely witnessing the distraction first-hand during their visit.
It is clear that future oversight visits must be planned and controlled better to maximise results.

The station commanders of the affected police stations briefed the committee members on how the situation unfolded in their areas.

They were unable to maintain law and order and to protect lives and property.

The shocking unpreparedness of the police and the intelligent fraternity was glaringly clear.
To this day, it is still unclear whether any intelligence was available before the unrest and if it was, why appropriate action was not taken.

Mr Cele as the only surviving Minister in the security cluster must come clear now and indicate whether he received the intelligence dossier at any stage.

If not, did anyone else receive it?

And most importantly, was it considered and acted upon at all.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 6 The National Commissioner General Sithole and his two provincial commissioners did not attend any of these meetings.

Can you imagine?

The top brass in charge of the SAPS in these two provinces were not available to answer questions by the visiting Members of Parliament on oversight to their two provinces?

This is totally unacceptable and definitely warrants at least an explanation and perhaps even an apology.
During a Portfolio Committee on Police meeting on 29 June 2021, General Sithole admitted that the police is no longer able to fulfil its section 2053 Constitutional responsibilities.

... [no sound] ... provinces confirm without a doubt that this statement is in fact a true reflection of the SAPS’s inability ...

[Inaudible.]

The Minister also disappeared for a while and South Africans largely lost confidence in the SAPS’s ability to protect them.
Citizens were left at their own mercy and now that the storm has subsided and the police are back to investigate possible transgressions by them while they were protecting themselves.

There are still serious unanswered questions regarding the police.

They were clearly unprepared, not adequately trained and also not properly armed for the circumstances they faced.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 7 Who is responsible for this logistical nightmare?
These blunders and shocking shortcomings relegated the police to nothing more than arm spectators in uniform quite often fleeing for their own lives.

I am therefore still astounded that both the Minister and the committee chairperson are praising the police for what they have done.

So, what have they really done?

The deployment of the SANDF contributed immensely to stabilise the situation.

Serious questions must however be asked, are members of the SANDF trained for situations like this?
Are they properly equipped to use minimum force?

When will the police be ready again to fulfil their own mandate?

The Minister and police are blaming budget cuts and personnel shortages for their dismal performance, but conveniently keep quiet about the falling.

It is the ANC-led government that defected budget cuts to fund their projects like bailing out South African Airways.

It is the ANC that drove diminished budget through budget while the opposition parties like the DA opposed it.
Knowing very well what the implication will be.

It is at the police department that is currently unable to spend the diminished allocation.

So, we actually know that the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 8 budget is not the problem.

The establishment of a Parliamentary enquiry is welcome to get to the bottom of this.

This situation must be rectified.

At the moment, the safety of South Africa and its citizens are at risk.
The South African Police service must be transformed and restructured.

The exercise must start from the top.

The Minister and the National Commissioner must account.

I do not support this report.

I thank you.

Mr W T I MAFANYA: Deputy Speaker, section 200 of the Constitution outlines the mandate of the SA Defence Force as: to defend and protect the Republic, its territorial integrity and its people in accordance with the Constitution and the principles of international law regulating the use of force.
Implied in this section is that our soldiers’ primary responsibility is to defend the Republic from external threats.

It is not the responsibility of the soldiers to enforce law and order.

That is the responsibility of the SA Police Service.

Soldiers are not trained to maintain law and order.

Soldiers are trained to kill.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 9 The police ...

[Inaudible.]

... that followed the arrest of Mr Zuma.


There is no intelligence capacity to deal with events such as the ones we recently experienced.

Even when that intelligence is there, the police are wholly incapable of handling incidents of mass arrests.

Mr Bheki Cele was given an intelligence report by the former Minister of State Security and he decided to just sit on it as he is sitting on the growing crime problem in the country.
We must also condemn the utterances of Mr Ramaphosa who encouraged armed racist vigilante groups to attack African people.

As a result of his tacit encouragement, racist Indians killed over 40 people in Phoenix but the soldiers and the police have not retrieved guns used against African people.
The unrest in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng was as a consequence of political infighting within the ANC and there’s every reason to believe that the unrest was planned, instigated and executed by the members of the ruling party.

For far too long, the ruling party has been developing a tendency of thinking that their own internal problems are South African problems, projecting their own dysfunctionality on the country as a whole.
In this instance, the President of the Republic used UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 10 state resources and the national army to deal with problems he could not resolve within his party.

All right-thinking citizens must condemn this shameful act of denuding our Constitution and misusing our defence force.

...

[Inaudible.]
...

[Inaudible.]

... the national defence force in the entire world gets deployed to harass people and serve maize meal, rice, fish and fish oil in the houses of the poor and dejected members of the society.

The deployment of the army by Mr Ramaphosa is nothing but sheer cowardice.

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Nomhle, we are not ready to dance.

Not so early, please!

Just mute and switch off.

You are disrupting the sitting.

Sorry, hon Mafanya.

Please complete.


Hon Mafanya, please connect and complete.

Mr W T I MAFANYA: Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

The deployment of the army by Mr Ramaphosa is nothing but sheer cowardice and refusal to lead.

To date, he has not gone to KwaZulu-Natal to fully understand the root causes of the unrest.

He has not engaged with any community leaders.

He has not gone to the homes of the murdered African people in Phoenix.
He has not sought to understand the depth of the poverty that led to the young and the aged, men and women to go and get food, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 11 supplements and even medicine from the shops that were ransacked.

A government that deploys the army against its own people has essentially ...

[Inaudible.]

... and is no longer a government of the people.


The deployment of the defence force is testimony that those who have been tasked to lead society have deep fears of their own citizens.

They fear the citizens because, deep down, they know that they no longer represent the people.

By deploying the army to KZN and Gauteng, Mr Ramaphosa has essentially declared the poor grandmothers who were desperate for food as enemies of the Republic.
He has declared that these citizens, the poor who constitute the majority of the citizens who are largely black, are not worthy of engagement; and that they only need to be eliminated by the bullets of the SANDF.

[Interjections.]

AN HON MEMBER: I would like to know if ...

[Interjections.]

Mr W T I MAFANYA: We reject the deployment of the army and we condemn the ...

[Inaudible.]

... Bheki Cele’s incompetence in leading the police.

Thank you.
Thank you.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 12 Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, the looting and violent protests in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng in July will undeniably count as one of the darkest moments our country have suffered since the dawn of democracy.

The absolute lawlessness, anarchy and the hijacking of our democratic values have shaken the people of South Africa to their core.

We have to face the facts.


The government has failed the people of South Africa miserably.

As Parliament, we cannot sit back and simply accept this failure on the part of the executive.

We cannot accept that the Minister of Police had no prior knowledge of the planned looting, and that no prior intelligence reports were received and provided to law enforcement ... We cannot accept the contradicting statements made by Ministers in this regard.
We also cannot accept that there is no accountability for the failure of these Ministers to act and account to the public.

This committee has been told that the estimated impact of the damage done by the protests in these two provinces was around R50 billion to the gross domestic product, GDP.

As of 30 July, the consequences of this violent looting will scar our country for years.
Tragically, as always, it will be the most vulnerable in our society who will be crashed by these UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 13 economic ...

[Inaudible.]

...

It will be the simple mother whose job will be at risk, who will struggle to make ends meet.

The ...

[Inaudible.]


... ironically-named Operation Prosper which involves the deployment of up to 25 000 members of SANDF in support of the SAPS to address widespread looting, rioting and violence that emerged from the two provinces from 9 July 2021 was, for all intents and purposes, a day late and a dollar short.
When His Excellency Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi was calling upon the government for the urgent deployment of troops to stem the rampant looting and arrest the associated violence, he was met with a curt response from the then Minister of Defence and now Speaker of Parliament, the hon Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula, that we were not at war; and that there was no need for military deployment.

This error in judgement came at a great cost for both life and property which could have, and should have been prevented.
Home Affairs offices that were destroyed and damaged during the unrest must be made operational again as soon as possible, as additional delays only increase the ever-growing backlog in UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 14 terms of efficient service delivery.

The IFP will continue to be the voice of the people.

We will continue to work with communities to demand answers and accountability from our government for its complete failure to protect the people of South Africa.
The IFP reluctantly accepts this committee report.

Thank you.

Dr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Deputy Speaker, between the 7th and 16th of July, South Africans witnessed and saw destruction, looting, stealing and can I say not only from shopping malls but the economy of South Africa.

I am not going to waste my time to say what the damage was in terms of physical equipment.

But what is important is that we are still calculating the damages that have been done.
In the latest review on baking, it now appears where it was thought about R20 million in cash had been stolen from ATMs and it is now up to R112 million in cash.

Now, you can just imagine what criminals will do with that cash and if everybody thinks that they hungry and that they will buy food, they are wrong.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 15 Yes, there are people who are starving that do not have food but I want to put it very clearly that this incident was not because of that but was mostly to obtain some other objects.

It is clear that the intelligence structures of South Africa failed the people of South Africa.

Not only the people of South Africa but the eyes of the world saw the incompetency of our intelligence structures.
The damage was not only to South Africa and to the people of South Africa but it is also a damaging image for the world to see what is happening in South Africa.

In our oversight visit to KwaZulu-Natal, it appears for the first time that the hon Minister of Police denied that he received any intelligence package from the State Security Agency.
He denied that the commissioner of police received such intelligence report but the then Minister of Intelligence of State Security Agency confirmed that she did give some intelligence packages to the structures.
The fact of the matter is whether the intelligence information was available or not, it was not used because of destruction was proof that the intelligence structures and I think all three of them, the crime intelligence from the police UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 16 services, the military intelligence as well as the State Security Agency failed the people of South Africa.
Further proof of that is that just yesterday or can I say a campaign was launched to destabilise South Africa but the security forces were prepared to deal with that.

Therefore, if we look at what happened yesterday, it is proof that if the intelligence did their work and followed up on the intelligence, we would have not had a situation like the one we saw between the 7th and 16th of July.
I also want to say that one of the recommendations from the police is that the trust and confidence from the community must be reinstalled to the police.

It is because of these actions where people see but the police and the security agencies cannot deal with such a situation.

They have to protect themselves and take the law into their own hands [Inaudible.]

but it is also wrong to misuse the Phoenix community where they protected themselves and now making it a racial incident.

It’s not racial.
It’s not racial.

If we go to Phongolo, Phongolo is a perfect example where Black, White, Indian and Coloureds stood together to ensure that the community is protected against criminals and the lack of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 17 security forces to protect them.

The President must take full responsibility for these incidents.

I thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Bring my list sir.

Bring my list.

Sesotho: Ntate Meshoe, o ne a diehisa wena.

English: Please go ahead.


Your mic is not on.

Go ahead sir.

You haven’t spoken.

Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, the large scale looting of shopping malls, violent protests and riots that led to the destruction of properties from Friday 9 July to Sunday 11 July in particular was unprecedented.

What was even more disturbing was to note that not a single police officer in the first three days of the looting was seen anywhere.
Where were they and where was the Minister of Police who always wants to be seen and heard whenever acts of criminality take place?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 18 Like most South Africans, the ACDP believes that the looting and the destruction of property between the 7th and the 16th July 2021, exposed the appalling weakness in government’s intelligence sector.
Social media was awash with hinds and threats leading to those awful events that we believe should have been contained more effectively by the police who should have been ready but they were caught napping and consequently failed to prevent the looting and extensive damage to our infrastructure including 161 malls, 200 shopping centres,1 400 ATMs, 300 banks and post office branches.

As the result of their failure to act timeously, the estimated impact on our GDP is amounted to R50 billion.
The ACDP is very disappointed that after such costly damage to our infrastructure, the torching of about 23 trucks on the N3 at Mooiriver Plaza and the loss of more than 200 lives and there have been no heavy penalties imposed on the security cluster.

The entire security cluster that failed the nation of South Africa should have been fired for their lapses and incompetence.
The important question that we are now asking is UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 19 what is government going to do to prevent the repeat of such wholesale looting, destruction of property and the loss of many lives?

With a total of ten law enforcement officials who have so far been charged for allegedly taking part in the looting.

Is there any hope that the police will ever succeed in eradicating criminality and criminals from their ranks?
We are even seeing reports that some of the police officers even rent out guns to criminals which shocking indeed.

Besides the fact that our police need better training, their numbers should be beefed up significantly.

During the looting frenzy, we could see that the police were by far outnumbered by the protesters.
But, to all those police officers who did their best to contain the madness taking place in July, the ACDP wants to say to them, thank you for your commitment to protect our communities and to perform your duty with diligence and excellence.

Your excellence is commendable and greatly appreciated.

May the Lord bless you and your families and continue to protect you.

Thank you.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 20 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.
We are soon ... Afrikaans: Moet nou asseblief nie skree nie.

English Hon members the UDM has not given us a name so we are giving this slot to the chairperson of Police Portfolio Committee to speak on behalf of hon Maphatsoe.

So, hon Joemat-Petterson.

Ms T M JOEMAT-PETTERSON: Thank you very much hon Deputy Speaker, as that ANC we are firmly behind the commitment of the National Development Plan of creating safer communities where every South African will enjoy their lives under the sun without any harm.
We understand that the stable and peaceful environment is important for our economic growth.

At the outset, we wish to convey our condolences to the families of those who lost their loved ones, during the social unrest.

May the families be comforted and the souls of the compatriots who lost their lives rest in peace.

We would also like to commend the work of the police and how they responded to the social unrest.

It would have been worse had the police used maximum force to curb the unrest.
The police managed to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 21 restrain themselves even under serious provocation, during the unrest, was so purpose of ensuring that they don’t contribute to the loss of lives.

If anything, the unrest and the loss of lives should be put squarely on those who planned, mobilised and executed the unrest.

We are surely behind the law enforcement agencies who are busy at work to ensure that those who are behind the unrest are brought to book.
For quite some time we have raised the concern regarding the challenge of budget allocation to the security cluster.

The security clusters in general and the police in particular, have faced sever budget allocatory cuts.

This reduced budget allocation may have contributed to the manner in which the police responded to the unrest and may also have hampered the general work of the police over the years in the execution of the mandate.
Among other things, the limited capacity and resource constrains which make crime intelligence to befell on the ground ...[Inaudible.]

... proactive intelligence before the outbreak of the recent unrest was anchored.

Although there was limited proactive intelligence, our tactical intelligence after the outbreak was almost enough to trigger the provision of the response.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 22 Over contingency and activation plan were activated.
Over force nationally were mobilised and deployed.

These were both combat and investigation teams which were deployed to provide the response.

We appreciate the deployment of the South African National Defence Force, by the President which complimented the forces on the ground.

Despite the fact that damage was caused to some of the areas and most especially in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal, most planned attacks were fuelled down with others prevented.
The strategic deployment and resource intensification helped intelligence to generate proactive intelligence to curb the spread to other provinces.

Our assessment is that the situation stabilised within the shortest possible time.

The investigating task team also executed the track down approach, which resulted in numerous arrests, including the so called instigators.
The challenges which caused the flat footedness in the beginning together with the contributing factors are as follows, the modus operand applied was that of overstretching the limited resources, drawing the attention to the forces to the entry and thereafter enter the cities and townships and started looting.
The violence was already lifted to the level three right at the beginning, which was already beyond level UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 23 one and level two capacities and required level three capacity.

The contribution factors that worsened the handicap, were that limited service delivery caused by the expanded spatial development has not only inflated the profiles of the majority of police stations but has also overwhelmed the normal capacity to respond.
The population increase has not only skewed the ratio of police to public but has also placed the burden on the limited resources, putting more strain on the capacity to respond.

The reduced level three capacities included capital resources, such as nyalas, helicopters and other related resources resulting from budget cuts and had the handicap for both the response and the stabilisation speed.
The overhauling of crime intelligence and the migration of resources through the distribution and redistribution process has been activated through the integrated resources strategy, currently in progress.

Our call therefore, is that we need serious engagement around the building of capacity and the funding of the police services with regard to resources.
The obvious fact is that UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 24 the population has grown and that the modus operands of criminals are getting more sophisticated by the day.

The police must be resourced so that they are able to respond to the situation of crime and violence in the modern age.

This requires both recruitment of the necessary personnel as well as personnel with technical capacity in the police service.
Through our oversight work as Parliament, we will engage with the Department of Police, to firstly unpack the lessons learned during the unrest as well as how we develop a turnaround strategy to ensure that the police are able to mitigate and respond to situations like these in future.

The ANC supports this report.

I thank you.

Ms D KOHLER: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker, South Africans might have excused for asking where the intelligence services were, when the country burned around their ears.
Where was the domestic bundge state security agency as billions of rands, of our infrastructure was destroyed?

Where was crime intelligence as our malls, businesses jobs and careers were looted and burned.

Do we even have a crime intelligence structure?

This insurrection didn’t simple self-ignite.


I live in eThekwini and was out at manning neighbourhood barricades as the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 25 shooting stone grenades and helicopter horde day and day, night after night.

It’s not as though the so called “free Zuma protest” came as a surprise.

Posters, advertising ...[Inaudible.]


... protests were take place, were fly about in social media, days before the shooting started, days before the burning started, days before the looting started and where were you?

One might have expected the Ministers of Police and the State Security to be working together.

But sadly, all we witness was that giant vacuum of leadership.

No intelligence, no preparedness just a scene army of mass looting and burning, all formed and posted on social media.
To have our security services stand back and watch, from their air-conditioned offices is not what we expected when we pay billions of rands for the services to exist.

Then, the blame game began with one of the most extraordinary television performances of our democracy.

The Minister of State Security, threw the Minister of Police under the bus saying she has given the South African Police Service, SAPS, warning reports.
The Minister of Police retaliated by throwing her under the bus, saying he knew nothing.

Of course, ...[Inaudible.]

... they may both be telling the truth.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 26 If said report exists and were given to the net joints, co- chaired by the increasingly famous pair, the National Police Commissioner and the Secretary of Defence and no warning goes...[Inaudible.]
... the Ministers warned, slow preparations made, well that tells a different story doesn’t?

The DA submitted a ...[Inaudible.]

... application to dig out the truth.

With the Parliament itself will eventually get its acts together and begin an investigation still remains to be seen, but either way this event was paintantly, meticulously planned and began precisely the day after Zuma was jailed, yet our so called intelligent services were still to quote the Minister of Defence “caught with the pans down”.
There were people who knew about this plan month in advance.

The organisers sadly ...[Inaudible.]

... were extremely difficult to arrest.

The authors of the incendiary treasonous knew, and how many of them have been arrested and those who received the intelligence and who should have had battalions of police, standing by on the scene, waiting, no they didn’t, the just looked the other way.
It’s being said the stolen armour, the firearms, the ATM millions may welcome price of setting up the private army or quietly taken a stash while the crowds of thousands frantically looted free stuff.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 27 Apparently, our security services were so busy infighting, that they simple didn’t notice the months of preparatory movements of mass, cashes of arms, the transfer of huge amounts of money, the arrival of large numbers of vehicle from particular province.

The meetings and ...[Inaudible.]

...

I have seen the planning maps of events they left behind.
A side from a Minister being dumped, and the Joint Standing Committee for Intelligence, JSCI, tagged under the President’s arm.

When exactly has been done.

From the outside it looked like those turning of looting taps are being pushed through the shredder.

And many of those under investigation are once again in top positions.

The top structure of crime intelligence was guillotine and that entity emasculated.
Just few months before this event and the head of crime intelligent suddenly find themselves suspended after doing what he was apparently pleasurably authorised to do by the Minister.

Has changed or at face value it doesn’t seem they have.

Indeed, we may be seeing not only the ANC infighting moving onto our streets but 180-degree turn back to the old looting days and ways.
Now, unlike the Chair of the Police Portfolio Committee, I won’t prejudge the issue, but this hon members, this low we UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 28 feel today is all the probability just the eye of a perfect storm.

Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, Members of the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs and Members of the House, good afternoon.

On 19 May 2021, I addressed Parliament on the occasion of Home Affairs Budget Vote.
During that occasion, hon Deputy Speaker, I mentioned that we are determined to increase our efforts in building an all- inclusive, caring, compassionate and enabling Home Affairs.

To that end, I indicated that the department was pursuing a few initiatives towards achieving that goal.

Even as I said that, I couldn’t have imagined that our beautiful country will be visited by the unprecedented unrest, which shook the foundations of our cherished democracy, a mere two months later.
This period of unrest, unfortunate as it was, helped the Department of Home Affairs to sharpen its focus on identifiable priorities.

Home Affairs employees ensured that services were delivered in an all-inclusive, caring and compassionate manner.
While the damage did not impact very heavy on Home Affairs as it impacted on all the other departments, I must state, hon UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 29 Deputy Speaker that only five Home Affairs offices were actually damaged, three in KwaZulu-Natal and only two in Gauteng.

In KwaZulu-Natal, offices that were damaged were in Eshowe, Impendle and Vulamehlo, near Port Shepstone.

In Gauteng, Bara Mall and the Mamelodi Offices were affected.
The Bara Mall suffered extensive damage and vandals stole everything, even scents which were used for handwashing after people were using after they took finger prints.

However, there was no mega damage in the Mamelodi Office in that, only one window was broken and nothing else really was tempered with.

My colleague, the Deputy Minister, hon Njabulo Nzuza, joined the portfolio committee when it conducted oversight in KwaZulu-Natal and I joined them when they conducted oversight in Gauteng.
On 15 July already, I instructed the department to use alternative sites to ensure that we were able to assist grieving families and undertakers to register deaths at some offices that were accessible, because of the unrests.

Hon members, the Bara Mall, which was extensively damaged, was used before the unrests mostly to register most of the deaths in Soweto.

They were registered here.


We chose it for that UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 30 purpose because it has got a huge parking lot, and social distancing ...

[Interjections.]

... IsiZulu: Nk N TAFENI: Susa iphepha esikirinini mhloniswa.

Iphepha esikirinini.

IsiZulu: USEKELA SOMLOMO: Noluvuyo Tafeni, unguSihlalo manje?

English: The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Sorry hon Deputy Speaker, and sorry hon member.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s okay, but the member is ... We don’t do that.

Go ahead, hon Minister.

Watch where you’ve put your papers too as well.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker, I am sorry about that, I apologise profusely.

I am saying, we chose the Bara Mall to register most of the deaths in Soweto because it has got ample space for funeral undertakers, and social distancing was very easy.
So, before COVID-19, it was registering 120 deaths per day, and during Covid, it went from UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 31 200 to 300 deaths per day.

So, when it was vandalised, obviously, it was going to leave people in dire strain.
But we utilised the nearest office at Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital, which is just a one kilometre away from Bara Mall where we’ve got a biggest office to register births in the country, because we started registering births in hospitals.

So, we just diverted people from Soweto to go to Bara Mall for that purpose.

Therefore, their lives were not as disrupted as they could have been.
As their office was vandalised on the night of 13 July 2021, services were delivered at the actual hospital on 16 July, that means just three days after that vandalisation.

Limited serves returned to the office from 22 July, using equipment borrowed from nearby Home Affairs offices, and on 30 July already, the office had already received new equipment and work was going on.

When hon members visited, they can attest that they found the office working as it was before the unrests.
I must express my appreciation to the Deputy Minister and the Umlazi Local Municipality owners for the mall where the office is located, for leading the clean-up campaign.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 32 In Gauteng, I personally led a clean-up campaign in Sebokeng, where I picked up a couple of IDs that were thrown around the place.
Presently, I’m working with the councillors and law enforcement agencies to try and trace the owners of those IDs, whether they were looters or whether they have just lost their IDs in the stampede, we would like to identify them.

The department’s experience with the Bara Mall is painfully different from that of Eshowe.

The owner has not yet undertaken repairs.

We are made to understand that there is a standoff between the communities and the owner of the mall.
The communities are demanding that the repair to the mall must give them jobs, and it is suspected that it is the very same people who looted who are demanding the job to repair the mall.

So, there is a standoff, and we are caught up in that process.

But fortunately as I have said, Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital is helping very much in that regard.
We are also diverting people to the Maponya Mall, which as you’ve heard over the media, was protected by the community, and we are also sending them to the Soweto office in Orlando West, both of them are a mere three kilometres from the Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital.

Hon Deputy Speaker, currently, the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 33 Department of Home Affairs has 412 offices nationwide.

Out of this number, 229 are leased from various landlords.
These means that, we’ve got significant dependencies on landlords, and when their properties get damaged, we become victims.

We have now adopted multiple strategies to reduce these dependencies, and to this end, we have approached the President Infrastructure Office, which is chaired by the former Mayor of Tshwane, Dr Ramokgopa.

He is going to put up 15 purpose built offices for us because, the offices that we hire are not purpose built.
To this end, I can report to the hon Members of Parliament that we do have a purpose built office in Lusikisiki, on which we pride on ourselves.

We encourage the hon members to visit that office.

Construction of similar office is at an advanced stage in Mokopane in Limpopo, Thohoyando in Limpopo and Taung in North West.

We are also working with the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, CSIR, to identify areas where we can locate our offices, based on migration patterns and based on security.
In the short-term, hon Deputy Speaker, we have decided, and we have reported it this morning to the portfolio committee that we need to increase Home Affairs on wheels and we need to increase mobile units.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 34 We already have 100 of them.
We have decided that, even before the end of this financial year, we must buy 10 more, which are equipped with thee satellite units so that they can be usable in the far rural areas of the country where there’s no network of either MTN, Vodacom, Cell C or even Telkom.

So, hon members, we believe in the next financial year that we would have increased our trucks tremendously because, during the period of the unrests, they have shown to be very popular.
Our people love them, so, we are happy to deliver more trucks.

Deputy Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to hardly thank members of the portfolio committee for the oversight visits, I must tell you, it deepens the understanding of our work, and helps to identify different areas of weaknesses.

As we have done, we take their recommendations very seriously, and we have already started to implement some of them.
This type of cooperation can only benefit the people of South Africa and not individual political parties as such.

So, we really appreciate your work, hon members, and we will at all times work with you.

Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Minister.

Hon members, I don’t have the NFP’s names.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 35 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Minister.

Hon members, I don’t have the NFP names, nor do I have ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

... Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Shaik Emam, Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shaik Emam, you are absolutely experienced.

You should alert us that you are around.

Don’t just keep quiet as if you don’t know.

Similarly, ATM, you must also say when you are not coming so that we don’t even include you in our list.

Thank you, hon Shaik Emam, go ahead and speak.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Noted, Deputy Speaker, thank you very much.
The NFP raises the following concerns; First of all, two days before this violence erupted, our understanding is that Cabinet was advised that there was going to be disruption in the country, very little or nothing happened.

The other important thing to note is that the SA Police Service and law enforcements in the country are helpless, absolutely helpless, even if you have an incident of this nature again in the next few weeks’ time, I can assure you that the result will be the same.
That is how bad the situation is.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 36 I can go on to say that the issue that took place in Phoenix, it is only as a result of the people in Phoenix - just like the people in other parts of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng - found themselves in a helpless situation, all day and night because SA Police Service did not have the capacity to deal with it.
And, I can indicate that because I have been in touch with the law enforcement and their words to me is that, we can do nothing about it, people have to defend themselves.

So yes, indeed, there has been an act of criminality, so let us deal with it from that point.

Remarks that have been made by the Minister in terms of racism, I think must be condemned with the contempt it deserves.

They are reckless statements that will incite more racial tensions in KwaZulu-Natal, particularly.
Even when the Minister talks about the security companies, the firearms that have been taken away, he is creating a perception that these security companies are complicit in the crimes that took place in Phoenix.

Until the investigations is concluded, and allow the investigators to do their job and come up with their findings, it is reckless for him to make statements like which he has made.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 37 Now, let me tell you what our problem is; crime intelligence is compromised, military intelligence is compromised, the police crime intelligence is compromised, so what do you do?

Over and above of being compromised, the Police Service is compromised to the extent that there are people that are siding with different factions in the country currently and that is what makes it more difficult.
That is evident by the fact that, to date, the SA Police Service has not been able to get the kingpins behind the so-called interruptions or violence and looting that has taken place.

Another statement that the Minister has made is that it is a problem for the people to loot from the looters but it is not a problem for looters to be looting and causing all sort of distraction and mayhem.

How many looters have been arrested?

Hardly any, a few of them here and there.


There are protests that are taking place in gross violation of the regulation.

Where is the consistency from the SA Police Service, to be able to deal with this thing objectively?

No, yet I see there was an attack yesterday on the MEC of Health because on her birthday party.

But there are thousands of people that have been protesting in gross violations of the regulations and nothing has been said or done about that ...

[Inaudible.]
[Inaudible.]

... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 38 Now, the problem that we sit with is that we find that police are being deployed from all provinces into KwaZulu-Natal.

Do you know what a serious risk that poses to the other provinces?

...

[Inaudible.]

... hundreds and millions of rands that are being spent?

All because of danger or risk of anticipation ...

[Inaudible.]

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shaik Emam, keep quiet.


You have run over your time.

No, it’s unacceptable.

No matter a strong point you think you are making.

It’s wrong.

Please.

No!

No!

Hon members, please keep ...

[Interjections.]

... Hon Shaik Emam, you are home.

Just turn around and go drink a glass of water.

You will feel better.

[Laughter.]

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: ...

[Laughter.]

...

Thank you.


Ms N P PEACOCK: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister of Police, hon Members of Parliament, the recent unrest affecting the country has left us all shocked.

It reaffirmed the centrality of communities in the fight against crime and violence.

Many of our communities stood up, stood together, and stood against crime and violence.

We applaud these communities.


We also ask that we realise the strength that we have when we stand UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 39 together as a collective against criminals that aims to stripe us, the economy’s progress, as well as its stability.

We must not only stand together as communities, but also stand together with SA Police Service in the fight against crime and strengthen the vital relationship that we have.
It is the only way to truly rid our society from criminality.

We are not turning a blind eye towards the gap in trust in the police created by isolated pockets of police members whom operate outside the law.

These members must be dealt with decisively and must be seen to be held accountable.

We need to reaffirm the legitimacy of our police and state; and increase the capability of trust that has been lost.
The culture of violence that we have in police was so deeply entrenched during the days of apartheid.

We must address this if we are to move forward and foster stronger bonds between police and communities.

Hon Speaker, ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Deputy ... Ms N P PEACOCK: Deputy Speaker, the role of the private Security Industry ...

[Interjections.]

... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 40 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.

There was an election here, hon member.


Ms N P PEACOCK: Noted.

The role of the private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, SIRA, in enforcing compliance with security companies in their operations should be strengthened.

The authority is managed to regulate the private security industry and to exercise effective controls of security service providers in the public and national interests and in the interest of security industry itself.
The SIRA Act of 2001, bestow wide ranging power on inspectors but does not confer criminal investigative powers.

As such, the authority inspectors are reliant on SA Police Service who conduct criminal investigations and to verify firearms in terms of Firearm Control Act of 2000.

SIRA may only issue warnings, suspensions or withdrawals of registrations for offending private security companies.
As such, SIRA is more of a business regulation model, rather than a model public service government, and it does not provide an accountability structures to deal with criminality, public violence, human rights violations, as well as illicit use of firearms.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 41 The lack of public accountability structure to oversee the operations of private security industry is significant in a gap.
This allows the industry to operate ... if you have not listened it is up to you ...

This allows the industry to operate to some degree with impunity and without same oversight measures just as was placed in police.

Although the private security sector has a Code of Conduct, adherence to a strict doctrine of democracy policing values is not legislative.

Hence, Parliament should consider a development of such an oversight body for the private security industry within a well-defined policy framework.
A key recent development is piloting of a formalisation of a partnership called the Eyes and Ears Project.

This is the first formalised partnership in South Africa which was piloted in Gauteng as a joint fight criminals’ initiative between SA Police Service, Business Against Crime South Africa, the Security Industry Alliance and the willing participation of the private security industries.
The concept agreement is based on the proximity of the Public Service Commission, PSC, to incident crime scenes at hotspots which could be used to provide information to SA Police Service for rapid response to incidents.

We need such initiatives nationwide.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 42 In conclusion, as a collective, we should strive towards cohesion and to find unity in diversities.

In doing this, we will form a collective bond against crime.

[Time expired.]
[Time expired.]

Sepedi: Mna W M MADISHA: Ke lebogile, morena.

English: The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, ntate.

Mr W M MADISHA: Thank you very much.

What happened to South Africa and her people during the period in question shall forever remain sad and painful.

People were injured; people were killed and our economic stability was destroyed.

Economic businesses and buildings were destroyed.

But the question must arise: Who was responsible?

Was it the ordinary people – the ordinary South Africans?
I say no.

First permit me to refer you to our Constitution, clause 199 (7)(b), which says that neither the security services, nor any of their members, may, in the performance of their functions further, in a partisan manner, any interest of a political party.

But the ANC has undermined that.

It is an open secret that the ANC is faced with intraorganisational problems where UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 43 individual sections want to emerge supreme.
They do that by using ordinary South Africans who are unemployed, hungry, etc.

Those who are in power apply tactics inter alia, of not deploying the security properly.

It is not the intelligence structures that failed but political masters under whom those structures fall.

For example, that is why the President has been able to rise, assisted by those particular people and said that he be given extra powers to declare a state of emergency and so on.

That was planned.
That was planned.

The Ministers of Police, of Intelligence and of Defence - all of them, were responsible.

Remember what the Minister of Defence said.

She is now the Speaker today.

Remember what the Deputy Minister of Intelligence has said when he addressed the people in Soweto.

To remind you, he said that they knew what was happening, they knew that this are the kind of things that are going to happen, that there are people who are going to be attacked.
But then what is it that he did to make sure that he deals with that particular matter.

You remember when the President of our country went there, instead of dealing with this problem, he toyi-toyied there in KwaZulu-Natal and he said viva and amandla, so that he could shift the focus.
Right now, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 44 instead of us dealing with the problems that we are faced with, we are clapping hands and saying that the President must get more powers so that he can be able to declare the state of emergency, should this kind of thing happen.

That is not our Constitution; that is not what the people of South Africa fought and died for.

All that we have fought and died for is now being shifted by the ANC.

We are so much unfortunate.


Those of us who were there in the seventies – those who were beaten up, know exactly what has happened.

But the ANC ... Sepedi: ... le baloi!

Mr S J F MARAIS: Deputy Speaker, since the dawn of our democracy, we as a nation have never been subjected to the atrocities, thuggery, public destruction of assets as well as insurrection like we have seen and experienced a few weeks ago in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng.
It was clear very earlier on that we were facing plans and efforts by thugs to destabilise our country and to attack the territorial integrity of our nation and its people.

It was an international embarrassment to most of us and our already fragile economy was further damaged.

The uprising was well organised and promoted by social media, pamphlets and many other methods.
Most of us, at UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 45 least within the DA were aware of the imminent threats which is why our leaders were on the ground.

The question remains, Why the SA Police Service, SAPS, and were caught off guard and not prepared to prevent the destructions, looting and thuggery we have witnessed.

The Minister of Defence has on record admitted that the security cluster of government did not expect and foresee the magnitude of the unrest and the thuggery.
How is it possible that the intelligence experts from State Security, Crime Intelligence and Military Intelligence were not aware of the imminent dangers and threats.

Their role and responsibility is to be aware of any imminent danger and to inform and advise the President and his Cabinet to assure preventative plans of action.

They have seemingly failed dismally in their responsibility.
The perception exist that they are too deeply invested in the ANC factional battles rather than being only loyal to our nation and to our Constitution.

This has cost our country dearly or was the information provided to the President and his executive but they failed to respond promptly to authorise rapid responses to prevent the unrest, looting and insurrection.
The public differences between the President and the Minister of Defence created the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 46 impression that they relied on opposing intelligence sources.

Their publicly repudiation of each other was embarrassing and a sign of broken government.

How is it possible that the President and his Defence Minister have such a public difference about the characteristics of the dangers and threats we were facing.
Both should be held accountable for the dereliction of the constitutional duties and responsibilities.

The initial deployment of 2 500 soldiers with less than 1 000 each to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng was an insult to those communities and businesses most affected.

Both the Minister of Defence and the President must take full responsibility for this blunder.
Subsequent to the President’s consultation with opposition leaders, the employment of the 25 000 soldiers were authorised, which eventually made all the difference.

Besides the immediate deployment of the KwaZulu-Natal battalions, it took about 48 hours for deployment from outside KwaZulu-Natal and for the Reserve Force members to report to the bases.

Yes, there were initial logistical challenges due to the poorly rapid deployment.
However, it was evident from those on the ground that the arrival of the Defence Force armoured patrol UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 47 vehicles, infantry fighting vehicles and helicopters turned the tide against the insurgents and the looters.

The presence of the Defence Force on the ground and in the air made a significant difference in the affected communities.
This happened because of great leadership by the new chief of the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, the new chief of the joint operations and especially Major General Dube in KwaZulu- Natal, Colonel Maine in Gauteng and Lieutenant-Colonel Lodriek in Western Cape.

We are very proud of their leadership achievements and we are grateful for their contributions to restore and maintain law and order.
Operation Prosper has brought to the surface the extent to which the Defence Force was neglected by government over many years and how that has contributed to the weakening of our defence capabilities on land, in the air and on the sea.

We must urgently reconsider the priorities and the purpose of the Defence Force for the future.
We reposition and reprioritise its capabilities to meet the challenges and the threats of the future and develop a funding model and mechanism to ensure sustainability and defence readiness in line with the Constitution’s section 200 subsection 2.

This must include training for domestic deployments and the use of cyber UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 48 technologies has force multipliers.

We as the DA supports the Defence recommendations and the report.

I thank you.
I thank you.

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Deputy Speaker, while we are disturbed by uprising it does not match the violent we experienced during the worse days of apartheid causing harm hundred times more than we are discussing today.

The Group Areas Act demolished more houses than Israel does in occupy Palestine.

There are thousands of apartheid operatives identified by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission working free this government prepared to wait for them to die rather than prosecute them.
Personal safety, Deputy Speaker, is the highest priority otherwise South Africa is a fail state.

South Africa needs a Standby Force mostly women which placed our new Minister of Defence.

We will not go the anarchists so that they are not only trained to kill.

Households is to peace in other countries while not here in South Africa.
Al Jama-ah calls for compulsory military conscription reticulance to take the ready where it is needed so that they UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 49 are not used to start the burning tires to houses before the looting.

The pattern is clear, hon Deputy Speaker, I thought President Ramaphosa these unrest and more to follow was planned in the same day he was elected as President.
So, we need the Standby Force and this must be properly budgeted for, including allowances for lunch.

I am not in the position of the parties that are to remain embarrassed while there is unrest.

This, Al Jama-ah disagrees with.

We commend the President for taking national intelligence and he is mean it.

The intelligence for police and five other structures are still under their Ministers control and that seems to be forgotten.

When I was a member of the portfolio committee, we approved their budgets.
The police have their own budget and the control of police intelligence.

So, it is the Minister of Police intelligent man who let him down not national intelligence.

Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister of Defence and Military Veterans?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 50 AN HON MEMBER: There was a mistake, Deputy Chair.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.

Alright.

Hon A H Mthembu?

Ms A H MTHEMBU: Hon Speaker, there is a crisis here.
[Interjections] Okay.

Hon Deputy Speaker?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much.

Ms A H MTHEMBU: The motto of our Coat of Arms captures the essence of who we are as South Africans as it states in the Khoi and San language translated to mean we are people who are united in our diversities.

The Coat of Arms brings life into vision of the Freedom Charter that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black or white.
It therefore, follows that no racial group in our country will assume for itself and elevated status over other racial groups.

The proposition is making is intended to make a call to all South Africans to rally behind the national agenda of nation building and social cohesion.
On the day of birth of new South Africa, President Nelson Mandela in his inauguration speech vow to the rest of the world that: “Never, never and never again shall it be that this beautiful land will again UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 51 experience the oppression of one by another and suffer the indignity of being the skunk of the world”.
When Madiba vowed he understood that as a nation we have to take practical steps to build a society that can proudly call South African society.

The building of the nation and social cohesion is a process that lies in each and every one of us.

Individually and collectively we have no choice but to accept the reality that we cannot wish anyone of us away and deny them a space under the sun.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

I am standing here on behalf of the ANC to affirm our unwavering commitment to the National Democratic Revolution Strategic Objective of building a nonracial, nonsexist prosperous democratic and united South Africa.

[Interjections.]

We are committed to this objective not as a matter of slogan but that within our own ranks as ANC, we ensure that all South Africans regardless of their race are welcome in our organisation.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

In the recent social unrest and at any times over the years we have witnessed incidences which militates against our national UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 52 agenda of nation building and social cohesion.

We witnessed some amongst our compatriots who use racial profiling and attitude to define their social relations with other South Africans.
The allegation of racial profiling which manifested itself through act of vigilantism leaving to the loss of lives in Phoenix and Verulam have opened a painful chapter in the life of our country.

At the onset, we condemn any act of racial profiling by anyone, anywhere in our country and elsewhere in the world.
Hon Deputy Speaker, we believe that the law enforcement agencies will get to the bottom of the really transpired in Phoenix and Verulam and that all the perpetrators involved will face the mighty of the law.

The people of Phoenix Verulam and anywhere in the country have a right to live wherever they wish in harmony with their neighbours.

They also have an obligation to be part of the national agenda of nation building and social cohesion.
They believe the political parties we have in our country are committed to the agenda of a nation building and social cohesion as we are as ANC.

The time has never been so right UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 53 than now for all for us to act in an unpartisan manner for the sake of our country and the future generation.

As political parties, we should individually and collectively develop a programme which adhere towards the building of our nation.
Our Constitution has made provision for the existence of ...

Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.

The ANC support the report.

[Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, hon members, I want to take this opportunity to send condolences to all the families of those who lost their lives in the senseless killings.

I want to send good wishes and apologies to all those who are in business who got their businesses wrecked, destroyed, looted by criminal elements in our country.
I do understand the motivation and sometimes the pleadings for those who took some food home, but in any day, at any hour, South Africa cannot countenance any acts of illegality.

We have to stand firm on that.

Whatever the motivations, we can never say it is good to steal, to burn.

Hon members have said that this rioting, this insurrection whatever you want to call it.

This thing that happened was because the governing party is in disarray.
It does not matter UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 54 which side felt how hurt or challenged.

It is still illegal and it must still be treated like an illegal and treasonous act, to subject South Africans to what we have been subjected to.

[Applause.].

Therefore, there is no talking good about this.

There is no use throwing stones on this one.

We’ve got to say that we must praise, especially the young people in the townships ...

[Inaudible.]
[Inaudible.]

... and said it will not happen in our townships.

It will not happen in our towns.

Nobody is going to loot our towns and shops here because we are protecting our own jobs.

I want to take my hat off for those youngsters.

I want to take note of the report of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence on the oversight visits.

I want to say that I am happy that there was time by the Ministers then to give some responses.
I have heard hon members on the podium today saying in the Johannesburg leg they were not given responses.

I think, it is unfortunate, but also it could be that the Ministers with whatever information they had or did not have did not think it was wise to do so, at that particular point in the mist of the public.

Whatever we do, it is not our job to increase the insecurity of the South Africans.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 55 Hon members are also right the Defence is not trained to do police work.

But the Defence was deployed in support of the police.

In other words, no soldier, no commander, no general would take any step without being told to do so by those who were in charge and those were the police.
So, what we need to do is to accept that over the years, especially in the Defence, because that is the atmosphere I know better than the police, that in the last twenty years we have not invested enough in capacity in the Defence Force and that those decreases have rendered us toward we are today, where we are caught off guard.

I am not excusing the fact that the Defence Intelligence could have played a role, hon Cele, to advise.

I am in no way saying that the Ministers knew or did not know.
I was not there, but what I do know is that the Security Cluster must always be on top of their games to make sure that we do not get these stones that are coming into the cluster, that we do what we need to do, not to deploy the police and the soldiers, but to protect the life and property of South Africans.

So, on that note, we can promise that we will try to do our best.

We are asking that we also take time to relook at the structures.
At some point, we wanted to suggest to this UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 56 Parliament that you actually need an intermediary force.

A force that is between the soldiers and the police.

A force that is just right to deploy in situations that we have just experienced.

It would not be a unique force – France has a force like that.

So, I want to say that hopefully the deployment of the soldiers helped.
Hopefully, we will be able to gather enough to prevent and thanks to South Africans who came to us, Minister Cele this time around and said we need ...[Inaudible.].

The plans are coming ...

[Inaudible.]

... to participate this week.

Therefore, thank you to the citizens of South Africa who still want to see the image of this country where it should be.

We in Defence will make sure that we give that support.

We in Defence will make sure that we relook at our capacity.
In that regard, I would want to have a discussion around using that which we have here.

Relooking at the Armscor and Denel capacities.

Resuscitating those because without these two jewels we are going to be incapacitated.

We will be caught flat-footed.


Therefore, I want to salute the members of the Defence force who are out there, some of them are in the cold, not in their homes trying to support and when we do that we must say that UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 57 South Africa whether we disagree or not in this House we are agreed on one thing - our Constitution held when it was ... few weeks ago.
We must do everything that we can to make sure that our Constitution, the rule of law in this country, always comes first.

It is not about our colours, it’s not about our interests.

It is time for us to really focus on making South Africa proud, united in our diversity and to march in unison, to break this thing that we are in, to build our economy and to take our place amongst nations as builders of peace and stability.

I want to thank you.

[Applause.]


Ms L F TITO: Thank you, Deputy Speaker, we were not part of the committee delegation that visited KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, and Gauteng but we were there on the ground assessing the damage and talking to our people following the unrest.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members!

Don’t scream.

Go ahead, hon member.


Ms L F TITO: As a result of our engagement with the people we know for a fact that we had no insurrection or planned coup in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng, but rather we had a number of hungry and desperate South Africans, long neglected by their government, looking for food.

The Department of the Home UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 58 Affairs is one of the most neglectful of the state departments.
Thousands of children who are ought to be receiving child support grant are unable to get these grants because of their birth certificates that have not been issued by the Home Affairs or because their mothers have not been able to go register them of the depressingly long queues at the Department of Home Affairs.

Thousands more old people are also not able to apply for their grants because of the same reasons.
People who have lost their IDs who are applying for the new ones are unable to do so because Home Affairs is dysfunctional across the country.

In light of the pervasive joblessness in this country made worse by the job loss as a result of COVID-19, many people are hungry and desperate, and Home Affairs is no small contributor to that hunger and desperation.

You must ask yourselves why people chose to ransack Home Affairs offices in KZN.
There is no food or any equipment that could be looted in those offices.

People vandalised these offices because they are of no use to the people.

They are places of frustration and neglect.

There was once a time when the Department of Home Affairs was able to process applications at reasonable times.

This is no longer the case UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 59 since an ineffectual and highly incompetent Minister Motsoaledi took over.
The department must therefore ... use of the fact that some of their offices were vandalised during the unrest in KZN and Gauteng as an excuse.

Problems at Home Affairs have been there for a very, very long time across the country.

Why a dysfunctional Home Affairs such as this one we have?

We must begin to ask serious questions about the credibility of the coming local government elections.
Knowing how sloth like this department it is highly unlikely that vandalised offices will be in working order to process an ID application in time for election registration.

Across the country, there are millions of people without an ID documents because of the incompetence of the Department of Home Affairs.

The unrest in KZN and Gauteng must therefore never be used as an excuse by the Department of Home Affairs.

I thank you, Deputy Speaker.


Ms T I LEGWASE: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker, Members of Parliament and fellow South Africans.

During the ...

[Inaudible.]

... of 12 until 23 July, the country was engulfed in protest actions in a number of provinces.

These protests continued despite government’s plea that community members desist from destroying properties.
The protest action included UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 60 among others; the looting of several business areas causing serious interruptions to the economy.

These protests affected various service delivery initiatives in the country including those of the Department of Home Affairs.

As a consequence, several Department of Home Affairs offices and ports of entries had to be temporarily closed.
This debate gives an account on the work done during oversight and provides a detail of immediate response on interventions by the department on a short and long-term program.

The oversight presented an opportunity to assess the implementation of their work as outlined in the strategic and annual performance plans of the department.

On 13 July KwaZulu-Natal experienced the highest number of offices closure with 58 offices closed followed by Gauteng with 17.
In these offices the five mentioned by the Minister, Eshowe and Bara are the only ones that were seriously vandalised and tools of trade were stolen.

The Department of Home Affairs subsequently issued a directive that birth and death certificates should be registered in selected health facilities closer to the areas where offices were vandalised.
It should be reported that our oversight visit was conducted alongside Minister Motsoaledi, Deputy Minister Nzuza, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 61 Director-General Makhode as well as officials of the Department of Home Affairs.

The co-operation between Members of Parliament, the Ministry and the department broadly, is by far an indication of our commitment to the people of South Africa.
Co-operation amongst the different spheres of government is as critical as envisaged by our Constitution.

Deputy Speaker, the year 2021 is dedicated to the memory of the struggle stalwart, Charlotte Maxeke, who contributed immensely to the attained free, united and prosperous South Africa.

Her sacrifices and commitment in the struggle demonstrated that women are capable leaders.
As we commemorate the women of 1956 during this women’s month, we commend the sterling leadership of the provincial managers of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng Mrs Tertia Smith and Mrs Nozipho Shandur respectively.

Their hard work was central in ensuring that service delivery is restored.
We also commend the Eshowe Municipality which is led by the mayor, Dlamini, for the swift response to the unrest particularly in cleaning the Department of Home Affairs offices, in support of staff component who worked tirelessly to restore services working under the extremely difficult conditions.

Deputy Speaker, throughout our oversight visit we UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 62 raised concerns regarding lack of surveillance cameras in all offices visited.
We highlighted the risks involved given the critical work of the department.

In this regard, the department has recorded progress on the rollout plan in modernising their offices which include among others; Lusikisiki in the Eastern Cape, Mafikeng office in the North West as well as Mokopane in Limpopo.

The department is doing well on this ...

[Inaudible.]

...
[Inaudible.]

...

The committee has directed the department to urgently make an assessment and report to the committee on the cost and benefit of having surveillance cameras in offices we have visited.

Deputy speaker, we must note that some of our offices are located in Thusong centres, Impendle office, for example.

This means they are not in line with the security standards of the department in this regard.
We have directed the department to continue engaging landlords on measures of security and safety of our officials.

We welcome the report that the Department of Home Affair is engaging with the presidential infrastructure office to ensure that the department build its own offices in accordance to the appropriate standards.
The presidential infrastructure office has approved 15 Department of Home Affairs offices that has to be built UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 63 throughout the country.

This will lessen the spending on rental of offices of which some does not meet our required standard.

The committee...

[Inaudible.]

... the department for implementing the recommendations regarding having more mobile trucks which will bring services closer to people.

The ...

[Inaudible.]


... applied and received smart IDs including the community of ga Kgoši Molepo in Limpopo.

On this account, Deputy speaker, the department prioritised in their budget ...

[Inaudible.]

... service delivery ...

[Inaudible.]

... who still has challenges.

The more mobile trucks are available the more communities will benefit.

An example of such is in the community ...

[Inaudible.]

... to get services from the Department of Home Affairs.

Deputy Speaker, part of ...

[Inaudible.]


... services closer to the people.

The department assessment ...

[Inaudible.]

... viable of offices at malls across the country given that a lot of people ...

[Inaudible.]

... that Eshowe, Bara and Mamelodi offices are located within the malls, which undoubtedly makes it easier for people to access all home affairs services.
As we continue to fight against the COVID-19 pandemic, the management of social distancing in the Department of Home Affairs offices needs to be monitored considering the increase in demand of the Department of Home Affairs services.

Deputy UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 64 Speaker, in conclusion, it would be amiss if I do not commend the progressive work of the Department of Home Affairs.

Things are indeed turning around and I see light at the end of the tunnel.
Thank you.

Mr A C ROOS: Deputy Speaker, the 2018 article in the Harvard Business Review, argued that the most common type of incompetent leader is the absent leader.

The article stated and I quote: Absentee leaders are people in leadership roles who are psychologically absent from them.

They were promoted into management and enjoy the privileges and rewards of a leadership role, but avoid meaningful involvement with their teams.
Absentee leadership resembles the concept of rent-seeking in economics — taking value out of an organisation without putting value in.

As such, they represent a special case of laissez-fare leadership, but one that is distinguished by its destructiveness.

This destructiveness was laid bare for all to see in the unrest that took place.
As usual it was the South African citizens who bore the brunt of this destructiveness where 58 of the 77 of the Department of Home Affairs offices in UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 65 KwaZulu-Natal were closed down due to the unrest as the ANC’s factional battles spilled out onto our streets.

Shame on you!

Absentee leadership by its nature can only be spotted through the vacuum it creates.
Without meaningful involvement these leaders don’t know what to do in a time of crisis and it was the DA under the leadership of John Steenhuisen who filled that vacuum and was on the ground working to unite and protect these communities.

Communities who were so-called racist Indians, stood bravely defending their communities as they have done many years ago to help defeat apartheid while you, hon Mafanya, were hiding out in your Saxonwold bunker.

Shame on you!
Shame on you!

The DA has shown that when we stand together as a rational centre that we can defeat the scourge of absentee leadership and its trail of destruction.

The Vulamehlo Home Affairs office we learnt has been closed since March 2020, with the office manager sitting at home.

The Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, office in Impendle stood closed.

No sign saying when they will be there, quite frankly, the people of Vulamehlo and Impendle are unimportant to the ANC government.
The security clusters were caught wholly unprepared, the Department of Home Affairs included.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 66 The Department of Home Affairs has a vision of being a secure and modern department and yet we found they have no security cameras inside or outside any of their branches.

So they have no way to identify persons breaking in or attacking the infrastructure or their staff.

The Bara Mall Department of Home Affairs office remain broken down.
The reason, local community members allegedly wanted a piece of the contract to effect the repairs.

These could be the very same people who caused the damage, yet how would these incidents be investigated?

How will this be proven?

It won’t.

The lack of security cameras was agreed across party lines as a major security risk, and yet Minister Motsoaledi makes no mention of it.

It’s laughable.
It’s laughable.

The DA government would place security cameras inside and outside the Department of Home Affairs offices to monitor unlawful activity, to protect our officials and the public to ensure that members of the public legislature and oversight can work together towards an honest and transparent Department of Home Affairs.

That, when infrastructure and fair process are attached, perpetrators are brought to book.
So, the DA supports the recommendations of the home affairs oversight report and in particular, the implementation of security cameras inside and outside all the Department of Home Affairs UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 67 offices so that we can step in where absentee leadership fails to do so and start to deal with the lack of accountability and absentee leadership that this unrests so brutally exposed.

I thank you.
I thank you.

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Thank you very much, the Deputy Speaker.

IsiZulu: Malibongwe igama lamakhosikazi kulenyanga!

English: Receive our safety and security greetings on behalf of the Security Cluster as you all engage in debate on the pertinent and crucial subjects of the civil unrest in the provinces of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng respectively.
Today marks exactly six weeks since the failed insurrection last month which left our beloved country with scars of economical social and political ...

[Inaudible.]

... which claimed the lives of 359 people and destroy numerous businesses.
Hon members, allow me to anchor this debate by reflecting on the speech delivered by His excellency President Cyril Ramaphosa, on Friday 16 July 2021, where he said, I quote: UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 68 I saw people cleaning up the streets, rebuilding their lives, standing together united in their diversity – young and old, men and women, black and white.
They were grateful for the support of the security forces and made it clear to me that they stand united and will work together with the government to restore stability.

Fortunately, I was there when those people made those words in Springfield in Durban.

I was personally there and I listened and I saw them.

Deputy Speaker, as a government we commit in earnest to build from this willingness from our people to bring stability and we will further work with them to prevent the recurrence of this mayhem.
Equally, we reaffirm our service delivery agreement of ensuring that the people of South Africa are safe and feel safe.

To date, the total of 16 instigators have been identified and arrested and are going through the courts processes.

I also want to give an update on the improvement thus far for to ensure that law enforcement agencies are adequately resourced at all times.
Hon members, it is imperative for us to be constantly reminded of the fact that the standard operating procedures of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 69 responding to any form of publically unrest and violence in our country was redefined and repositioned after the unfortunate events and tragedy in 2012, and the recommendations of the Marikana Commission respectively.
It is on that score that the response of our law enforcement agencies during the unrest prioritise the right to life as they executed the highly dangerous episodes of looting and extreme damage to property.

Equally, we commit to further capacitate an adequately resource our public order policing, POP, units in this regard in the midst of crippling budget cuts.

Police Ministry has been assured that the South African POP units are better resourced today than they have been ever.
Well, over R6 million has been spent towards resourcing and capacitating of these units.

They are equipped with tools of trade such as two-way radios ...

[Inaudible.]

... video cameras and clear system for ease of communication during operation.

To further equip and empower our officers each one of them has undergone numerous courses and are competent in proper crowd management.
POP officers have also been trained on the use of specialised equipment within the POP environment, including the use of water cannons and stun grenades.

All POP officers are trained in first aid in each UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 70 vehicle use for the unit operation is equipped with first kit of first aid.

We have been working on technology in responding adequately to the ongoing efforts of technological advances aimed at improving policing.
Allow me to reflect briefly that the establishment of divisional management services in the police in 2010, was primary informed by the realisation of importance of introducing adequate technological innovations to policing.

Any operational response which include public order policing and visible policing is not limited to boots on the ground.

However, there is a growing need to bring on board force multipliers through resources, equipment and modern technology.
The introduction of digital evidence management will assist public order policing in enhancing its communication capabilities through the restoration and retrieve.

Deputy Speaker, when the Excellency President Cyril Ramaphosa address the nation he emphasised in the simplest working together of the criminal justice system of which we are working together with all departments involved.
Independent Police Investigative Directorate is continuing to investigate the cases and that could have been in crime committed by the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 71 members of the SA Police Service: 74 of them in KwaZulu-Natal and 13 in Gauteng are being investigated.

Majority of cases reported were cases of death, they are 26 of them, 25 cases of assault and 17 complaints of them.
Deputy Speaker, to ensure that the SA Police Service, SAPS, continues to meet its constitutional mandate in 2021 financial year, SAPS enlisted and trained 240 reservists as permanent members.

Unfortunately, we couldn’t train 7 000 the previous year and this year because of the coronavirus disease, Covid, and we then that has really reduced the capacity and capabilities of the police, and the new recruits especially to the POP.
Somebody said that President has not gone to KwaZulu- Natal, that is false and the people should not come here and tell things that ... President.

I was personally with him in KwaZulu-Natal.

I was personally with him and he visited Umlazi, Springfield and KwaMashu.

Therefore, that’s what really happened.

However, one other thing I want to raise here, the hon member Meshoe, unfortunately he’s not here, who contradict himself to say that police were nowhere to be seen and he thanked them at the end.
The problem about you not seeing the police is because you don’t own television, TV, to show the police.

TV UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 72 goes where there’s trouble and they don’t go where there is peace.

Many, many shops, many serious infrastructures like your water reservoirs, like your big liberty mall that you come from KwaZulu-Natal, like your Tshwane Mall in Gauteng, they stand because police came and work with communities.
Therefore, when these things started on the 9th police were there and they arrested people that broke John Ross Road between Empangeni, they were there at 4 o’clock in the morning, they were there.

Therefore, there was no TV.

Things that you did not see, it doesn’t mean that it did not happen.
Therefore, I want you to stand here and thank the police for the beautiful job they did, the protection of property, the protection of individual and then pass the condolences to the families where they lost their lives.

The last point I want to make, especially to hon member Shaik.

He must really take care of the situation of Phoenix.

The mental posture that he has is dangerous.

People in Phoenix were killed and were killed for one reason, and one reason only because they were black.
That was the only criteria.

That was the only criteria that they were taken out of their cars.

They were shot and their cars were burnt and people of the Indian origin were allowed to pass on the roadblock where people were killed.

Therefore, we need to deal with it as UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 73 such.

It’s the situation that we shouldn’t avoid.

It’s the situation that we must make sure that we correct it.
Hence that 36 of those people are arrested and most of those people arrested are people that killed people.

Therefore, the sin of people that were killed there was one reason, because they were black.

Debate concluded.
Debate concluded.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO REVIEW MILITARY DEPLOYMENTS AS PART OF OPERATION PROSPER IN KWAZULU-NATAL AND GAUTENG PROVINCES OVER 20 TO 21 JULY 2021 Question put: That the Report of Joint Standing Committee on Defence on Oversight visit to Review Military Deployments as part of Operation Prosper in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng Provinces over 20 to 21 July 2021 be adopted.
Report on Oversight visit to Review Military Deployments as part of Operation Prosper in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng Provinces over 20 to 21 July 2021 accordingly adopted.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 74 CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO KWAZULU-NATAL AND GAUTENG PROVINCES TO ASSESS IMPACT OF VIOLENT PROTESTS FROM 19 -21 JULY 2021 Question put: That the Report of Portfolio Committee on Police on Oversight visit to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng Provinces to assess impact of violent protests from 19-21 July 2021 be adopted.
Report on Oversight visit to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng Provinces to assess impact of violent protests from 19 -21 July 2021 accordingly adopted.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HOME AFFAIRS ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO KWAZULU-NATAL AND GAUTENG PROVINCES Question put: That the Report of Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs on Oversight visit to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng Provinces be adopted.
Report on Oversight visit to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng Provinces accordingly adopted (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 75 The Deputy Speaker requested members to observe a moment of silence in memory of people who passed on during civil unrest in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal provinces.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ON JOINT OVERSIGHT VISIT TO KWAZULU-NATAL AND GAUTENG PROVINCES WITH PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INDUSTRY AND SELECT COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INDUSTRY, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INDUSTRY ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO KWAZULU-NATAL AND GAUTENG PROVINCES FROM 3 TO 6 AUGUST Mr H G APRIL: The famous quote by the great Russian revolutionary Vladimir Ulyanov, also knows as Lenin, is relevant in South Africa today: “There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen.” The unrest we have witnessed last month has implications for economic, social and political structures as well as the standing of our nation and the world.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 76 As the Portfolio Committee on Small Business Development we conducted a fact-finding mission to KwaZulu-Natal and to Gauteng from 3 until 6 August as directed by the Speaker of the National Assembly.

We went to gather the facts and evidence on what has happed.
In this fact-finding visit we undertook jointly with the select committee in the NCOP, the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition, Small Enterprise Development Agency, SEDA, and Small Enterprise Finance Agency, SEFA.

This was to ensure that the entity could share information on the package offered by government to the affected small businesses and informal traders.
The delegation included leaders of municipalities, developmental agencies, the local chambers and provincial departments responsible for economic development.

Our observation is that the unrest has left many individuals and communities traumatised, possibly for life.

The scars to the economic infrastructure in the affected parts of our country will be with us for a long, long time and will run into billions of rands.

I wish to summarise some of the observations that we made.
The committee welcomes the government’s economic relief support to offset adverse impact of the unrest, in particular the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 77 settlement of insurance claims through South African Special Risk Insurance Association, SASRIA, which will amount to approximately R20 billion.

Even though the damage will cost more than double that amount, we welcome the allocation of R2,3 billion to small businesses not covered by insurance in this instance.
Also the support is not to commensurate the level of destruction and the number of displaced small businesses.

The amount of R4 billion from the DTIC, National Empowerment Fund and the Industrial Development Corporation will support affected small and informal businesses in townships and rural areas that were affected by the unrest.

The committee noted with concern the complaints of small traders in various municipalities where the needs for space and other facilities are not being met.
The House must follow- up on this matter and seek to resolve it urgently.

Our recommendation is that we call on the Department of Small Business Development through its entities, SEDA and SEFA, to work with us to intensify financial literacy campaigns targeting small businesses and informal traders.

The allocation R2,3 billion is welcomed but not adequate.
We call on various committees to convene meetings with departments to consider leveraging additional finance to scale UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 78 up recovery efforts and managing other administrative hassles faced by our small businesses and people with small minds, like this one here.

We are concerned about the slow uptake of the Debt Relief Finance Scheme for the impacts of the Covid-19 epidemic.
Government must consider hiring unemployed graduates to physically assist informal traders with dissemination of information and filling of application forms.

As part of the mandate of the developmental state, the department should lead measures to ...

[Inaudible.]

... in the shopping centres, supermarkets and informal traders.
The encroachment by large supermarket chains in our township economies, mostly owned by whites who are running the economy, which were historically served by the micro enterprises and informal street traders are anti developmental.

This needs to be more regulated going forward and we must make sure that our community members in the townships get a chunk of what our economy has to offer.

In this, we are saying that it is ...

[Inaudible.]
[Inaudible.]

... that we give our people a fair chance to take a bite at the economy.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 79 We regret to see so many small businesses that have gone down, and some may not even be able to come back up.

But as a committee and as this oversight ...

[Inaudible.]

... our people on the ground really need government’s urgent assistance.

I thank you.
I thank you.

Mr D W MACPHERSON: Forty-one days after violence, looting and destruction broke out across the entire province of KwaZulu- Natal and parts of Gauteng, Parliament has, for the first time, uttered the word ‘unrest’ in this Chamber.
At a cost of 360 lives and R50 billion in damage as a result of ANC factionalism that spilled onto the streets of these two provinces, it is a national embarrassment that the majority in this House could not find it in themselves to cancel their beach holidays and deal with the single biggest crisis in South Africa since the 1980s.

The ‘do nothing’ approach by the Presiding Officers in our nations hour of need is a disgrace matched only by the sorrow it has inflicted on so many.
When South Africa burned, the ANC turned.

They turned away from the citizens in my province that were left to fend for themselves for an entire week while the President sat from his lofty palace on a hill in Cape Town, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 80 and his entire Cabinet tried to prove with all they had exactly how useless they really were.
Communities across KZN and Gauteng resorted to arming themselves, barricading their streets and protecting what they had built in their lives.

Black, white, coloured and Indian, stood together to do the one job that government should do above all – protect its citizens.

And to all of you heroic South Africans, I say job well done!

You were the thin blue line.

And how has the President responded to their bravery and heroism?
He has kept the police Minister in sheltered employment, who has spent every single day since the 11 July fanning the flames of racial tensions in the community of Phoenix, in a desperate attempt to scapegoat Indians for his incompetence.
Instead of putting former Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula on pension after she contradicted the President, and couldn’t find her way to an army barracks when we were under siege, he promoted her to Speaker of this Parliament, and gave her a pay increase to the level of deputy president.

What an insult to our people.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 81 The Chairperson of our portfolio committee, Mr Duma Nkosi, who initially refused to go on oversight to KwaZulu-Natal because, and I quote, “It’s too dangerous”, decided it would be better to wait for the Minister to brief us – and I’ll come to his conduct in a minute – was eventually forced into action by his ANC colleagues, realising his shambolic handling of this would only further exacerbate their problems.
Not to be outdone by Mr Nkosi’s Houdini-like disappearance, Minister Ebrahim Patel was silent to the point you would be confused that it was the very same man who gleefully appeared on camera at any opportunity to ban everything from open-toed shoes to rotisserie chickens.
After 18 days of playing hide-in-seek, being shamed by myself after ignoring numerous invitations to come to KwaZulu-Natal, the growing media and public outrage to his self-imposed stay- away, the missing Minister turned up in KwaZulu-Natal to take selfies of himself in burnt out warehouses, proudly proclaiming he was there to work.
Make no mistake, for all the chest-beating and crocodile tears towards the public that this lot will do, and claims of grandstanding that the ANC will accuse us of, every single life lost and every rand of damage is on them.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 82 That the Mayor of eThekwini, Mxolisi Kaunda and KZN Premier, Sihle Zikhalala, who were former Ramaphosa loyalists before the July unrest, and who are now Zuma turncoats, could still be in office after they single handedly managed to fuel the flames of anarchy, is a testament to exactly how useless the ANC is.
In its report, the portfolio committee being the toothless sloth that it is, refused to condemn the Minister, it’s chairperson, the Mayor, the Premier, the police Minister or anyone.

It is like it never happened — it’s still a mystery to them.

They refused to recognise the problem that ANC business forums are, who are now trying to extract money from the very businesses that they burnt down.

They even turned up at our visit to a destroyed factory without any concern at all.
The people of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng can now see the ANC for what it is — a protection ring for a crook like Jacob Zuma, and all those politicians who follow him.

The ANC are entirely comfortable for people to lose their jobs so long as they keep theirs.

That is why I am so proud of how our communities across the country came together to unite, rebuild and protect themselves from the criminal enterprise that is the ANC.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 83 I am so grateful that DA Leader, John Steenhuisen, came to KZN on the 13 July to assess the crisis for himself.

He showed empathy and consoled those that had lost everything and their businesses.

He has repeatedly come back to the province, unlike the President, Minister Cele, who did a hit-and-run a week after the unrest, and spent all of the hours in KwaZulu- Natal.

Incredibly, he hasn’t been back since.


I am proud how DA councillors, MP’s, MPL’s and activists stood on the front line with their communities.

Colleagues, when it comes to the ballot box in the upcoming elections, the voters will remember who stood shoulder to shoulder with them in their hour of need, and they will remember who ran away like the cowards that you are when they came under attack, hiding from the very people that voted them into office all in the name of freeing Jacob Zuma.

I thank you.
I thank you.

Ms Y N YAKO: Hon Chairperson, what happened in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng was some of the most atrocious acts I have personally ever seen.

It was a highly traumatic experience personally to walk through the aftermath of the devastation that was caused.

I can only imagine what the victims and the communities of those affected are now forever scared for by it.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 84 The Committee on Trade, Industry and Competition went on a harried expedition of side seeing and assessment.

The naive aim being to see what we as law makers could do to assist those affected economically in regaining the financial losses and those who have lost their jobs to be able to feed their families as speedily as possible.

What we failed to do was to address the elephant in the room.

That was to address one another.


What happened in KwaZulu- Natal and Gauteng was political and as such that political needed to set itself in order.

It cannot be that in a country that boasts a huge percentages of youth unemployment and job losses by the thousand each day, we can still afford to temper with our economy each day for political expediency which is what happened in these two provinces.
What happened id in KwaZulu-Natal specifically was co- ordinated at a very high-level and a very sophisticated level was premeditated.

It was diabolical and so far no proactive action has been taken by the government of South Africa to bring those real faces of those responsible to book.
A theme that was prevalent between all these companies we walked through into KwaZulu-Natal was the immediate loss of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 85 jobs, loss of rail equipment and millions of those equipment into their businesses.

Thereby promoting imports which will cripple the already declining industries such as the clothing and the textile industries, for instance.
Kingspark Manufacturers of clothing which previously employed 600 people, mainly women, 200 more by the way, than, Amcor which employed about 400 people lost equipment, property of more than R9 million.

It lost a newly built factory that had just recently employed 300 more workers.

Equipment was taken, destroyed senselessly for more than 500 of its employees.

More than 500 of its previous employees now sit at home without a clue of what the future holds for them.
We visited many companies on our first day in KwaZulu-Natal.

The sight we saw that day will for ever be burnt in our memories.

The devastation, the desperation and pure helplessness we saw from business owners, managers, and workers ...

[Interjections.]

Afrikaans: ’n AGB LID: Hoe laat is jou vergadering ...

[Onhoorbaar.]

’n AGB LID: Ses uur.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 86 Die HUISVOORSITTER (Mnr M L D Ntombela): Nee, nee, nee!

Wat gaan nou aan?
Wat gaan nou aan?

English: Ms Y N YAKO: Chair?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Sorry hon Yako.

Continue please.

Ms Y N YAKO: Thank you Chair.

We visited many companies in our first day in KwaZulu-Natal.

The sight we saw on that first day will forever be burnt in our memories.

The devastation, the desperation and pure helplessness we saw from business owners and managers, workers is a sight that will be forever be burnt in our minds.
That while government could not provide a service that UPI could provide ...

[Interjections.]

Afrikaans: Die HUISVOORSITTER (Mnr M L D Ntombela): Agb Pieter Mey van die VF Plus, wees versigtig asseblief.

Agb Mey, wees versigtig!

English: Be careful please.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 87 Afrikaans: Wees versigtig!

English: Ms Y N YAKO: No Chair, these people are unorderly, really!
That government could not provide a service that UPI could provide to protect its assets is highly embarrassing.

Mainly pharmaceutical companies who were attacked during that time.

Companies such as United Pharma Industries, UPI, and Cipla could easily call on to outsource security to come to their aid.

At the time we had prevalence of a high corona virus infections.

Domestic violence cases, antiretroviral, ARV, patience.

What would happen when hospitals and public health sectors are attacked?
What contingency plans has the ANC government put into place that would make sure that security in this country is intact and functioning?

The startling and not so surprising answer is nothing and nothing!

A few things however exposed during these visits and those were the huge gaps that were exposed.

For instance, how easy it is to cripple an economy of one province that would cause ripple effects on to others.
What black people under their own government are vulnerable, poverty, death, illness and crime.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 88 These are but symptoms of a bigger issue which is that the ANC government has failed to put together a comprehensive generational plan, that would see economic freedom for all.

Another startling reality check was to see the vast economic divide across racial lines in KwaZulu-Natal.

Black people are still at the bottom of the food chain.
The status quo has not been able to be a priority for our Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition because these are not his people.

It is apparent that we are far from regaining any kind of economic reform under the current government.

It is also clear that we are still, but sitting ducks to more looting.

Looting of our state resources, minerals and looting of our labour.

Thank you very much, Chair.


Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Hon Chairperson, the civil unrests in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng primarily impacted small enterprises and informal businesses.

Especially because they are unlikely to have been insured.

Estimates indicate that more than R20 billion in damages and 50 informal traders were left stranded.

Fifty thousand small businesses were affected.

Likely, more than 150 000 jobs were at risk.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 89 We must bear in mind that KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng account for half of South Africa’s output.

The country’s gross domestic product, GDP, is dependent on the economic performance of these two provinces.

The country’s economic position was already compromised by the pandemic.

These unrests have resulted in growth projections being further revised downwards.
Economists are predicting up to 1% in reduction in GDP growth in 2021.

The IFP welcomes the necessary recovery package of R38,9 million and all the external support being offered to affected businesses.

The IFP notes that small businesses will not be able to rebuild on their own and welcomes the relive package administered by the Department of Small Business Development currently projected at R2,3 billion.
During the oversite visit to KwaZulu-Natal, the scale of potential job losses that will follow due to these unrests, we have to put the numbers in context to understand the magnitude of the consequences and the failure by the government to act.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 90 The Kingspark Manufacturers of clothing for instance, a medium- sized enterprise in KwaZulu-Natal had two factories in the Isithebe Industrial Park which employed 600 people, mostly women.
Due to the burning and looting, they had to seriously downscale and are now only able to employ 80, of the 600 employees.

These vulnerable employees’ livelihoods should be on the conscience of government which failed miserably to protect these businesses.

Furthermore, in the midst of a global pandemic, where health care is stretched to its limit, pharmaceutical companies such as United Pharmaceutical Distributors, UPD’s warehouse in KwaZulu-Natal, lost products estimated at R31 million.
While the Clicks distribution group lost approximately R180 million.

These businesses are drowning, hon members.

We therefore support the committee’s recommendation that this House request the Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition to engage with the Minister of Finance on the question of additional public funding.

In conclusion the violent and looting was nothing short of a complete anarchy.
We demand that the instigators and looters including those with ties to the governing party be brought to justice.

Everyone is equal before the law.

We demand that UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 91 transparency and that Ministers account for their prior knowledge of these events.

We also demand political accountability from the governing party.

The IFP accepts the committee’s report and recommendations.

I thank you, Chair.

Mr F J MULDER: Thank you hon House Chair.


The setback to the economy’s post-COVID-19 recovery and short performance after the recent unrest, looting and vandalism in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng is considerable and serious.
The general response of several senior politicians and government officials is that, the unrest highlighted the urgency of building a more inclusive economy, reducing the opportunity for those seeking to undermine the democratic order to find fertile conditions in communities and that economic inequality is treated as a legacy of a pre1994 apartheid.
House Chair, the government responses that, people loot because they are poor and vandalise because they are angry is merely a blame-shifting effort of a failed government.

In 1994, there were about 3,5 million unemployed people in South Africa.

After 27 years of ANC rule, the unemployment figure is now more than 11,4 million.
The trend of rising inequality got much worse during the 2008 to 2017 period, which corresponds exactly to the years of former ANC President Zuma’s terms of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 92 office.

So, the question should not be whether inequalities have lessened since the end of 1994, but if inequalities have increased since 1994.
The South African government strongly believes in redistribution but even all taxes and transfers are taken into account, the gimmick efficient will still be 0,363, the highest in the world.

The unrest, looting and destruction as well as the government’s response pushed back the country’s investment confidence to the lowest level in 12 months.

The mere redistribution of resources will only result in the redistribution of poverty.

Job creation can only materialise through economic growth.
The Department of Trade, Industry and Competition should respond to the current crisis with a fresh view on local economic development, dissimulation of localism.

The development of community-based economies has now become essential and the greatest gift of real freedom is to bring about equality.

The economic stability of self-respecting communities will eradicate poverty and inequality.

The FF Plus is not in support of the report before the House.

Thank you Chair.
Thank you Chair.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 93 Mr W M THRING: Thank you hon House Chair.

At the outset the ACDP wishes again to place on record its condemnation of the wanton looting and destruction of property, and the needless loss of lives during the week of madness in early July this year.

We offer our condolences to all families who lost their loved ones.
Clearly this was an attack not just on the business sector and the residents of our communities, but also an attack on the democracy and freedom of all in South Africa.

Chair, I had the opportunity to visit many of the sites where the looting took place from Amaoti and Phoenix in the North, Cornubia at Durban Central as well as Isipingo and Pinetown further South long before the oversight visits of our portfolio committees.
It is the view of the ACDP that, many of the protests in KwaZulu-Natal were planned and deliberate.

The ACDP condemns all acts of violence and murder and we have said that, this was not a racial uprising as some were making it to be in Phoenix and Amaoti, but a deliberate orchestrated attack on our democracy.

Sadly, the citizens were left to defend their families and their property has become the soft targets for SA Police Service, SAPS while many instigators are yet to be apprehended.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 94 The ACDP salutes all citizens who stood shoulder to shoulder in defence of family, business and country.

It must be said that SAPS were hopelessly outnumbered and ill-prepared.

In many instances they were conspicuous by their absence.

Additionally, there was a glaring deficit of intelligence sharing between the crime fighting agencies, which if it was in place could have prevented much of the looting and destruction.
The threats by those supporting former President Zuma were not either taken seriously or simply were ignored.

The internal battle for power within the ruling party has now manifested itself externally and South Africa as a nation suffers collectively.

The economic and financial loss resulting from destruction to property and business disruptions across KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng has been estimated to be in excess of R50 billion and some 150 000 to 250 000 people may lose their jobs.
Business confidence is an all-time low and the reputational damage of the country is extensive and possibly incalculable.

With billions of rand worth of potential investments wiped off the books, economists predicted that the damage cause will shave some 1% off our gross domestic product, GDP.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 95 The ACDP welcomes the recommendations and financial incentive packages in both reports, but also notes that for many businesses, it is sadly too little too late.

We will further call for a national interdepartmental recuperative preventative strategy to be sent to all businesses on how to restore their business and how to shield them from damage should further protests occur.
It is time for change and the ACDP stands ready to unite, build and grow our country, its economy and our people.

I thank you Chair.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Thank you very much Chair and hon Members of Parliament, ladies and gentlemen.

This debate is getting the country to pay special attention to small, medium and micro-sized enterprises as the sector which is at the centre of economic development in our country.
The recent unrest which mainly affected the KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng provinces has caused all of us to gather here today and discuss how we are going to practically provide support to the affected small, medium and micro-sized enterprises, SMMEs.

As the department, we intend providing this support through linking it with the existing government programmes from other departments some of which have already spoken here.
What are UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 96 the practical interventions that the Department of Small Business Development will undertake?

We have launched two business support packages, the Business Recovery Support Programme and the Informal Traders Support Programme.

1.

On the Business Recovery Support Programme: This programme will offer on the final support: (a) Blended finance which is a combination of a grant of 60% and a loan of 40%.
(b) Interest rate on the loan component is limited to 5%.

(c) Initial payment moratorium up to a maximum of 12 months for small enterprises in Kwazulu-Natal and Gauteng and six months for other provinces.

(d) Repayment of a maximum of sixty months.

(e) Maximum funding accessible per entity is R2 million.

The programme will solely fund businesses that are 100% owned by South Africans.

The businesses must also be registered and compliant with the SA Revenue Service.
It also important to ensure that, the needs of the businesses are understood and that interventions are tailored, appropriate and sufficient.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 97 To this end, the package will correspondingly comprise of pre and post financial support offered by Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda.
This will include small enterprises assisted to package their funding applications to access the funds available and customise business development support based on the needs of the small enterprises.

2.
2.

Informal Traders Support Programme: This package will focus on financial and nonfinancial support and include the following: (a) The Informal Traders Support Programme aims to support 17 667 entrepreneurs at R3 000 each as a once off grant amounting to an accumulative amount of R53 million via the banking partners.

(b) The business support linked to the programme will be co-ordinated through the Small Enterprise Development Agency.
(c) Businesses that apply through this scheme must be owned by South Africans who do not need to be registered with the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission, CIPC and SA Revenue Service, Sars due to their size and status of operations.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 98 (d) This programme is not only limited to support SMMEs in the informal sector in general, but it also opens for those SMMEs in the informal sector that were affected by the unrest.
Preference will be given to businesses owned by women, youth and people with disabilities.

In conclusion Chair, we are inviting all South Africans to work with us during this period.

As Fidel Castro said on the 31st of ... when addressing our Parliament here in 1998.

He said, I quote: “I only know that, great crisis’ have always delivered great solutions.” I thank you Mr C H M SIBISI: House Chair, as Members of Parliament ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Oh!


Hon Sibisi ... IsiZulu: ... ngiyaxolisa baba.

English: Mr C H M SIBISI: Thank you.

Thank you, House Chair.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 99 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): You can go ahead.
Mr C H M SIBISI: ... we come before this House to debate rubberstamps the ANC has already decided on, grandstand about our political differences, name and shame each other, and spend less time finding solutions about the real problems that South Africans are struggling with on a daily basis.

I say this with a heavy heart after learning recently that nearly 1 000 businesses in the first half of 2021 in South Africa have been liquidated, up from 763 businesses over the same period last year.
There were over 2 000 liquidations that were recorded by the end of 2020.

The ripple effect of these closures has not yet been realised fully in economic terms.

The continued adjusted lockdowns have contributed significantly to this; it is not a secret.

It is reported that the average household food basket now cost R4 001 per month.

That basket comprises only 44 food items that households in low-income areas have identified as necessary to feed their families per month.
And this government intervened by giving people only R350 as a relief.

The basket for core food has increased above inflation, which is plus 5,6% and we've seen further price UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 100 hikes coming from all sides.

The Fuel Levy has increased from R14 in January to R18 in August, which will have a knock-on effect on the prices of all goods and services.

Electricity tariffs have gone up by 15,6% with more hikes coming.
Taxi fares have increased between 7% and 25%.

Food prices are expected to increase by as much as 10%, given all the factors at play.

We lay bare to the country and the ANC government these disturbing facts to highlight how incapacitated the Department of Small Business Development and the DTI are in circumventing the worsening conditions of our economy.
We are seeing many more businesses closing down and we will certainly see this trend continue in the absence of sustainable interventions by the government.

Minister Patel needs to tell us what his department has done to fight the continued price increases during a pandemic but then this government is a party to marginalising our people.

We are doomed.

Thank you, House Chair.


Mr J N DE VILLIERS: Chairperson, the Small Business Development Portfolio Committee oversight visit just confirmed the utter destruction that was broadcast on television for all to see.

A SA Special Risk Insurance Association, Sasria, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 101 briefing we attended following the visit estimated the property loss at R50 billion.
What is even more disturbing is that Sasria only accepted about R15 billion of claims.

So, that tells me that there is R35 billion worth of property and business that's been wiped out of the economy.

So, you can just think of the number of lives and livelihoods that have been affected by this devastation, it's just immeasurable.

And these are people who cannot put food on the table for their families.

So, what can government do?


So, once again, the government is rolling out some financial relief packages, kind of what we saw with the COVID-19 but just like we saw with the COVID-19, these funds are incredibly hard to access especially for small business owners who, frankly, are receiving help a little too late.

Afrikaans: Dit is mosterd na die maal.

English: On our visit we spoke to many small business owners and employees, and do you know what they want?

What do they need?

They want justice.


Justice for the theft of their livelihoods.

Justice from a state that could not protect them from all the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 102 workplaces where they earned the ability to feed their families.

They know, and we know, that there are people responsible who orchestrated this chaos for political gain.

These architects of the anarchy used social media to incite the looting.

They must be brought to book.


They should be sentenced and jailed, finish en klaar.

[that’s that] No business can confidently rebuild and open its doors if they are no clear consequences for the people who planned and executed the looting.

Secondly, small businesses want a functioning government, one that can guarantee that the spectacular failure of intelligence and policing will never happen again.

Otherwise, how can they rebuild?


How can you expect a business to open its doors when the state can't even protect them?

Thirdly, small business needs the government to pay their bills.

According to the recent National Treasury Performance Report, which outlines the invoices which are still outstanding to the suppliers of the government and older than 30 days.

In the Gauteng province, the ANC government has over R1,4 billion outstanding invoices.
in the Eastern Cape, not to be outdone by the Gauteng province, they owe R1,8 billion of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 103 outstanding supply invoices.

Can you guess which province is the only province that does not own a single rand to a single supplier?

No surprises, it is the DA-run Western Cape of course.

The financial relief packages will help some small businesses but for most not.
What employees and employers of small businesses need is not more relief packages but simply a government that can run a capable state.

A government that can protect its people and bring justice when the law is broken.

A government that pays its bills, like the DA-run Western Cape.

The elections are coming, so, maybe it's time for voters to consider voting for a party, not on the race, not on loyalty, you might not like the DA but what is undeniable is that where we govern, we get things done.
We support the report.

Mr F JACOBS: House Chair, in today’s debate we pay homage to all who have lost their lives.

Today’s debate is critical.

We also with sadness and anger [Inaudible.]

what happened, the unfolding events is a tragic consequence on lives and livelihoods and the destruction of property, goods and services.

Why did this happened, and what must we do to ensure that it never happens again?
We were encouraged as a multipolitical party oversight team who worked together UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 104 seeking to listen, support and serve our people.

This report is a product of our collective efforts.

Hon Macpherson, you didn’t find it necessary to participate in the debate or do oversight.

This is not the time for the pity opposition politics and grandstanding.

We must work together to find solutions for this grinding poverty and inequality.
Through these crises we have learnt that government, big business, small, micro and medium enterprises, nongovernment organisations, NGOs, community-based organisations, CBOs, and informal sectors must work together to achieve the economic recovery that our President, Ramaphosa, has called for.

We appreciate all who have kept the line and protect our areas in our communities.
I want to pay a particular homage to our community policing forums who have been working with our security cluster to ensure that law and order prevails and our communities stay safe.

We call on all our communities to exercise wisdom and avoid vigilantism and taking the law into their own hands.

We must work hard to avoid racial tension so that we do not slide into abyss or chaos that pose threat to our national security.
The human’s loss of lives and damage to our economy requires our collective actions.

In this regard, our justice system must run its course and those guilty of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 105 inciting violence and acts of criminality must be brought to book.

Our President’s economic recovery plan and measures announced by our Ministers and also our new Deputy Minister is being rolled out and will go a long way to address the prevailing problems that we experienced.
However, as a collective we must collectively respond to the reality on the ground.

Our oversight visit emphasised the need to address the plight of our people who have already had crisis prepandemic and was being exacerbated in the past 18 months of this pandemic.

We must work it at all costs together to avoid the repeat the mayhem and public violence we have witnessed.

To this end we must take collective responsibility and address any threat to our national security, social cohesion and democracy.
We cannot turn a blind eye to poverty, inequality and unemployment and we do so at our own peril.

Let’s stand together to renew our economy as our President has said in this House when he announced the reconstruction and recovery plan.

We need an economy based on a fair and inclusive growth trajectory.
All economic activists that we have met in our oversight visit have a responsibility to contribute to this effort whether is UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 106 the small and informal traders, property owners or multinational companies.

We are all in this together.

As South Africans we must encourage or sometimes force big business to actively create and support local and small businesses.

We see local franchises come to our townships and displace informal traders.
We see Hungry Lion and Kentucky Fried Chicken macawing this with local eateries.

Historically, black microflower industry here in the Cape that we are talking about has been decimated because retail chain operators like Shoprite own the entire value chain and then outcompete small local enterprises.

We need a circular economy where money circulates in local and rural economies.

Our malls macawing this and integrate with our local economies.
We must improve our relationships between shopping centres, supermarkets and informal traders.

We must strengthen regulations to enforce them to plough back into our communities.

If we fail to act now we would have failed to learn from the events of July 2021.

In conclusion, this looting and failed insurrection must make our collective South African resolves stronger.

We must stand together and defend South Africa from greed and criminality.
These actions were an attempt to blackmail us, to intimidate UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 107 us, to manufacture panic, to sow division, to create fear and to send us back into our lagaaars.

Let them not succeed.

We assay to all those political opportunists exploiting vulnerabilities of the poor, colluding with security and criminal enterprises, we the ordinary South Africans will not allow your agenda to succeed.

We as South Africans are resilient.


We are people who will overcome.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Jacobs, can you take a seat.

There is a point of order.

What is your point of order, hon member?

Mr D W MACPHERSON: I just want to understand if hon Jacobs is prepared to take a question as to the party membership of all of those instigators.

Could he just ...

[Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Macpherson, hon Macpherson, hon Macpherson you repeat that I will take you out of the platform.

That is totally out of order and you know it.

Hon Jacobs, you can continue.

Mr F JACOBS: We as people are resilient.

We as people will overcome.

We as South Africans will defend our democracy.


We as South Africans will work together to rebuild our economy so UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 108 that we can all prosper.

The ANC supports this report and all its recommendations.

Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Chair.

Ms J HERMANS: House Chair, the report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade, Industry and Competition on our visit to several municipalities, companies, small businesses and informal traders who were affected by the recent unrests in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng provinces, makes for depressing reading.

I know that out there in the public the perception is that the unrest affected mainly large manufacturers and retail companies.
However, what we found on the ground was that many small, medium and micro enterprises as well as informal traders many of whom are black were victims of looting and destruction.

Attacks on key infrastructures including two major ports of Durban and Richards Bay and transport on the national routes on the N2 and the N3 caused disruption of supply chains and threatens the jobs and livelihoods of many workers and communities.
On this oversight visit the committee spoke to managers, owners and workers of companies both large and small.

Our report documents detail these interactions.

For example, we spoke to management of Kingspark Clothing Manufacturers and they informed us that only 80 of their employees were able to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 109 return to work as we have heard from the previous speakers and that the company was in the process of rebuilding.
The company needs R9,1 million to rebuild what remains of the factory.

They expressed their concern that their customers hwo have placed orders with them would start importing some of the locally manufactured products like jeans and chinos they supply to the clothing stores in the whole country.

This implies that our economy could lose critical capacity to manufacture products locally and create goods paying jobs.
Similarly, in our discussions with Siyaphambili manufacturing electric cabling company located in one of our industrial parks, we found that the storage facilities and offices have been vandalised and cables along with tools and diagnostic equipment’s have been stolen.

As a small company employing only 30 workers, Siyaphambili, could take back only eight of those workers.

These are the real stories of human beings, of somebody’s parents, sisters, brothers not building an infrastructure.
So it is not time for cheap politics from the DA.

They are the stories of the breadwinners and families who have lost their incomes and means of survival during this period of a global economic downturn induced by COVID-19 pandemic.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 110 On our visit to various townships the most devastating discovery was the loss of sock and equipments of small enterprises and informal traders mainly in malls.

[Interjections.]

If the shoe fits, wear it.


The efforts to recover from these loses for our people are almost impossible.

Informal traders told the committee that they benefitted from malls being operational because when people come to malls they pass there and buy some goods.

In these engagements with Small Business the committee was accompanied by DTIC and the Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, which provided information on government support.
This information needs to reach the most affected area in order to support the small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs.

The various support packages offered by government departments and entities will bring relief to many companies and households, but we know that it is not enough.

The full impact of the unrest has been felt throughout the economy and our country.
The committee is concerned about the impact on the whole sector in particular health care for patients with chronic illnesses and the vaccination roll-out.

The committee has made only one recommendation where we recommend to the House the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 111 Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition to consider engaging the Minister of Finance on whether additional public funding could be sourced to assist affected businesses in all areas.
We ask the House to consider this report.

I thank you.

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Thank you very much, hon House Chair, Al Jama-ah votes in favour of this report, commends the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Small Business Development for bringing comfort to many of the affected business people that we visited and also the hon Dangor who lost his wife near the end of a five-day visit ...

[Interjections.]

Ms J TSHABALALA: On a point of order, House Chair.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): What is your point of order?

Hon Hendricks, can you take your seat?

Ms J TSHABALALA: Can you please ask the hon member on the podium to sit right and adjust his camera.

We can’t see him.

He is fading away.

We want to hear what he says.

Thank you.

...

[Interjections.]

... You, DA, must stop howling.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 112 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Okay.

Hon member, that suffices.

Hon Hendricks, a member would like to see you.

You are very ...

[Interjections.]

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Chair, I think that deserves an extra minute.

I can start again.
I can start again.

Al Jama-ah votes in favour of this report, commends the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Small Business Development for bringing comfort to many of the affected business people that we visited and also the hon Dangor who lost his wife near the end of a five-day visit, and showed a lot of interest and concern about what happened.

The National Council of Provinces will certainly be proud of their representative.

We wish his wife the highest place in Jannah.


Hon Jacobs summed up our take.

However, he forgot to tell this House of his support for the slay queen who lost her business.

The slay queen captured hon Jacobs’ imagination but he made no reference in his report about this.

House Chair, Sasria should not have given up and the insurance companies should have paid the insurance money.

This is ring- fenced by Treasury.

I will ask that they share their legal opinion in our next portfolio committee meeting.
Insurance UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 113 companies have now got an insurance payment holiday, which is very sad.

The DA supports the report but that does not mean that people must vote for them as hon members requested.

There are better parties to vote for, like the voters in Lenasia have recently shown.

Hon House Chairperson, we must create nine million jobs by 2030 and after the unrest, there is more to be done.
That is why the President’s localisation project must be ring-fenced.

One thousand products must be topped up.

Al Jama-ah throws its weight behind the President.

We have a new Minister and a new Deputy Minister and hope that the energy that they bring will speed this up.

When the first malls were looted at the instance of Maulana Abbas Mkhize, Al Jama-ah called a zoom meeting of most of the Muslim religious leaders in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng.

It was a historic meeting.


It was agreed that matters should be left in the hands of the police and the Muslim community will make dua and not shoot bullets as they are looted and threatened with violence.

I gave the assurance that I will speak to the President to send helicopters and increase the deployment of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 114 the Defence Force, which the President did.
I also guaranteed that the President will display a show of force, which we know he also did.

The Minister of Defence’s maiden speech made the right call that we must not racialize.

That is clearly what the Minister of Police unfortunately did, but that does not detract from the good work that the Minister of Police does to keep the country safe.
When kids in Shaka’s Kraal jeopardise the collection of chronic medicine and dialysis of their mothers and grandmothers by burning, looting and destruction, it is clear that Ubuntu in South Africa is under threat.

Ubuntu is an ethic word and the mayhem took place at the birth place of Ubuntu.

We need to take steps to rebuild Ubuntu in South Africa.

Let me put it on record after the unrest, many people would say that Ubuntu is dead in South Africa in at least two provinces.
Thank you very much, hon House Chair.

[Time expired.]

Mr Z BURNS-NCAMASHE: Hon House Chair and hon members, the ANC ...

[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 115 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, could you please mute?

Mr D W MACPHERSON: On a point of order.

Chair, I am just wondering if you can turn the lights down for the hon Burns.

It is a bit bright in here for him.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Macpherson, you are making it difficult for us to continue.

Ms N T MKHATSHWA: On a point of order, Chair?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): I would request the Information Technology, IT, to remove that member.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House Chair, there is a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Whose point of order is it?
Ms N T MKHATSHWA: Thank you, House Chair, it is hon Mkhatshwa.

...

[Interjections.]

...

The insinuation made by the member of the DA, I think it is unparliamentary, taking into UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 116 consideration the various health requirements the various members may have in the House.

I think we ought to take it upon ourselves and take responsibility of being considerate of the various health requirements members may have.

Thank you, House Chairperson.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member, I did not hear the insinuation by the hon member, but I will check and come back with a ruling.

For now, I have requested that that member leave the House because he is in the House.

That hon member is disturbing the flow of the debate.

I will request them to leave the House.

Mr D W MACPHERSON: House Chairperson, may I address you, please?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): I have requested you to leave the House.

I am not prepared to debate with you, hon Macpherson.

Mr D W MACPHERSON: Chairperson, can I address you, please?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): No, I refuse to be addressed.

Hon Macpherson, could you please leave the House?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 117 Mr D W MACPHERSON: Chairperson, that’s not the Rules.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, could you please leave the House?

I would ask the Serjeant-at-arms to assist.

Mr D W MACPHERSON: I can’t leave the House.

I can’t leave the House because in terms of the Rules ...

[Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Are you defying?

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Macpherson, could you please sit down?

Mr D W MACPHERSON: Chair, in terms of the Rules ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Macpherson, could you please leave the House?

[Interjections.]

Mr D W MACPHERSON: Chairperson, follow the Rules.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 118 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Macpherson, leave the House.

[Interjections.]

I request the Serjeant-at- arms to intervene, please.

Usher that member out of the House.

We would like to continue with the debate Mr D W MACPHERSON: Chairperson.
Chair ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Macpherson, please, leave the House?

I humbly request you to leave the House.

...

[Interjections.]

... Hon Macpherson, if you have any objection to what I am saying, you know what Rule to follow.

Please, leave the House?

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: On a point of order, hon Chair.

Mr T R MAJOLA: For what?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): I am addressing Mr Macpherson.

Before I address anyone, I would address Mr Macpherson.
He must leave the House before we continue.

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: For what?

On what basis?

Under which Rule are you asking my member to leave this House?

Please, tell me the Rule?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 119 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member ...

[Interjections.]

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: I am humbly requesting ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Macpherson, could you please leave the House?
Mr C H H HUNSINGER: What’s the Rule?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): You are continuing to disturb the House.

Could you please leave the House?

I am not prepared to listen to anyone before I deal with this Macpherson.

Mr T R MAJOLA: Are you becoming autocratic now, Chairperson?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Has the hon member left the House?

[Interjections.]

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: Chairperson, I am asking you to please explain ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 120 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): I will give you a chance.

Let’s address this one first.

Did Mr Macpherson leave the House?

Serjeant-at-arms?

Mr T R MAJOLA: For what?

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: What Rule?

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Serjeant-at-arms, can you please remove that member?

Mr T R MAJOLA: For what?

Remove for what?

...

[Interjections.]

...


Remove the member for what?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): He is disturbing the House deliberately.

That is my ruling.

If you have any objection to that, hon member, you know what measures to follow.

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: I do not recall any unruly behaviour during this sitting.

It was a point ...

[Interjections.]


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 121 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, take your seat.

You are making noise.

Otherwise, I will have to do the same with you.

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: House Chair, I have ...

[Inaudible.]

... when my member raised ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, you are disturbing the House.
Mr C H H HUNSINGER: You pondered, you ruled that he should leave the House.

Not explaining why and not sharing any Rule.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, you will submit your problems to the right platform.

I am not here to debate with you.

I have made a ruling on that matter.

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: With all due respect, it appears that the problem is that you are ruling for a member to leave this House ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): It’s fine.
You can take it further.

For now, that is my ruling.

[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 122 Mr C H H HUNSINGER: Chairperson ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, please take your seat?

Mr T R MAJOLA: Why must he leave the House?

Chairperson?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Has Mr Macpherson left the House?

Mr T R MAJOLA: For what?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): As I have said, hon member, I made it very clear.

An HON MEMBER: On a point of order, House Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): What is the point of order, hon member?

An HON MEMBER: Thembekile flouted the hybrid Rules by opening his mic without being recognised and to scream on the virtual platform.

That’s a violation of the hybrid Rules.

Can you also make a ruling on member Thembekile of the DA?
He violated that UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 123 Rule.

You are not allowed on the hybrid to open your mic and speak without being recognised The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Okay.

Hon Chair Lesoma is handling it.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: On a point of order.

Hon Chair, we cannot be held at ransom here in this House.

When the presiding officer has made a ruling, let the member go out.

Let’s not be held at ransom by the DA.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon members.

Hon Lesoma, can we continue.

[Interjections.]

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: On a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): There was a point of order.

Hon Lesoma, are you handling it?

Mr C H H HUNSINGER: On a point of order, House Chairperson.
House Chairperson, I want to record the objection of the DA for requesting that our member should leave the House without any direct reference to the Rule.

We will have to take this up UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 124 further.

Please record our objection.

Thank you, House Chairperson.

Ms J TSHABALALA: House Chairperson, I request your attention.

Judith Tshabalala on the floor, in the plenary.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): You may proceed.
Ms J TSHABALALA: House Chairperson, I request that the table investigate what happened with the member that was coming towards the presiding officer and confronting her.

We could see him pointing fingers towards and the secretary.

That is not acceptable.

We would want you to come back and report to this House about that behaviour.

It is really unbecoming.

We cannot accept it.

Thank you.

And he must be reported to the House.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Can I continue, hon Lesoma?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Chair, we shall do that and report to the House.

You may proceed, thank you.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 125 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, we are going to request hon Minister Patel to close the debate.

The hon Minister Patel.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Ntombela, hon Ncamashe is still on the podium.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): I am sorry, he can continue.
Mr Z BURNS-NCAMASHE: Hon House Chair, hon members... IsiXhosa: ... mhlawumbi kuza kufuneka ukuba le ntelezi ndiyiphungule.

[Kwahlekwa.]

English: The ANC in supporting this report, reminisces about one of the towering, contemporary, erudite intellectual.
In his book, The Dead Will Arise: Nongqawuse and the great isiXhosa cattle killing movement of 1856-57, Professor Jeff Peires was the first historian to draw on all the available sources to write the story of uNongqawuse, the young Xhosa girl whose prophesy of the resurrection of the dead led an entire people to death UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 126 by starvation and famine.
More than 160 years later, the pain of the episode, now named Isithwakumbe sikaNongqawuse is still raw among the communities living in the Eastern Cape.

There is even a saying in isiXhosa, nguNongqawuse ke lo!

Meaning to describe a catastrophic of epic proportions that has afflicted a large community.
House Chair, it is the view of the ANC that whoever instigated some people in parts of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng not just to loot but to also to destroy their economic infrastructure in order to achieve whatever fictitious imagined outcome will go down in history as the most cynical and narcissistic people who do not deserve to be referred as patriotic citizens of this country but treacherous traitors who mercilessly betrayed the economic gains of our democratic state.
The most painful irony of the events of July 2021 is that the political outcome which was to instigate a popular treasonous insurrection against the democratic elected state failed but the socioeconomic devastations will be felt for many years by the masses of the poor and the working class families.

Not the rich instigators.


House Chair, we must agree with the Zulu Royal House ... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 127 IsiXhosa: ... izinyana leSilo, uBhejane kaBhush’obukhali, umntwana weNkosi uMisizulu ... English: ... when he said in his statement on the unrest in 15 July: I fully understand the desperation born out of poverty and unemployment which laisse people especially our youth to join this chaos.
I must appeal to all of us to take a step back and consider the damage being done through our own actions.

Those who will suffer the most from a weakened economy are the poor, the vulnerable and the struggling.

The question then is; what lessons can we draw from history in moments like these?
What we know is that, when amaXhosa who had fought wars of resistance against colonialism for over 100 years lay hungry, defenceless and subservient after uNongqawuse, Sir George Grey took advantage of this human wreckage.

He exiled the starving, crushed the survivors and seized more than half of our people’s land to build a colony of white settlement.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 128 House Chair, we observed an unfortunate incident during our oversight visit.
After every meeting with the captains of industry, most of whom happened to be white, the DA members of our committee always had their private deliberations with them on the side.

We were not privy to these deliberations but what is clear is that the paternalistic colonial legacy of Sir George Grey, Andries Pretorius, Cecil John Rhodes and Colonel John Graham lives through the DNA of the hon members of the DA.

Indeed, we all acknowledge that the economy of South Africa remains largely in white hands.
However, to our colleagues from the EFF I want to say a wise nation never destroys its future in order to ventilate the grievances of its past and present circumstances.

The people of Rwanda after the brutal genocide in which almost one million people perished within a few months did not wallow in the misery of their desperate situation.

Instead, they rolled up their sleeves and worked together to develop their education, health and infrastructure sectors.
Today, that small land-locked country is on the path to become an industrialised technology leader in Africa.

With our talents and the resourcefulness of our human capital, we must unite and rebuild a growing, peaceful and UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 129 industrialising South Africa.

Our children and future generations deserve it.

I thank you.
I thank you.

The MINISTER OF TRADE, INDUSTRY AND COMPETITION: Hon House Chair, hon members, may I start by extending my condolences to the families of those who lost loved ones during the unrest.

The report of Parliament’s oversight visits to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng underlines the extent of the damage caused by the unrest.
One week of looting and burning destroyed jobs, undermined investment and consumer confidence, disrupted food and medical supplies and caused damage to the wealth-creating machinery of the country.

This was not about advancing transformation, as some have claimed, but, indeed, undermined transformation and economic growth.

The unrest was not about putting food on the table of poor communities.

It will, instead, deprive communities of jobs and opportunities.
It is not a fight between factions of a political party, but is instead a fight by South Africans across communities in defence of the Constitution and the rule of law.

South Africans rolled up their sleeves, cleaned up affected areas and reached out to communities that were directly affected.
During the week of the unrest, government UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 130 began the process of economic recovery based on establishing stability, and then the processes of rebuilding and restructuring businesses and the economy restarted.
I want to point to a few actions by the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition, the DTIC, and its agencies that show what government has been doing and to shame the pettiness of the hon Macpherson who never misses a chance to sink into the mud and try to take all of us with him.

Please grow up, hon member.

Get out a bit more.

Get some coffee.

Get some fresh air.


In the week when the unrest began, the DTIC created a 24-hour channel of communication between firms and the security services, alerting them of impending or actual unrest action.

Government met with the firms affected, with the business associations and with trade unions to mobilise efforts to counter the threats to persons and property.
The Ministry worked within government with colleagues, Ministers Ntshavheni, Gordhan and Didiza to reopen the N3 artery between Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal, to reopen the ports and secure key secondary roads.

The Ministry and officials undertook site visits to industrial areas, to affected firms, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 131 to distribution centres and to shopping malls.
We saw the damage caused at Kingspark factory in Isithebe and worked with their main customers and with funding agencies to find ways to get that factory and others restarted.

We met with the mayor of Mandeni and residents in the local Isithebe business community, hearing the frustrations of the community and of businesses, and we initiated an izimbizo.

We visited retail outlets and the Mandeni Mall to hear the stories of hardship and identify ways to structure our support measures.
We met with KwaZulu-Natal’s largest food distributor to discuss how to have shops and retail outlets opened as soon as possible.

We met with the main pharmaceutical product warehouses and distribution centres to determine what the impact would be on the supply of medicines and what else we needed to do to assist the resumption of supply chains.

We visited factories in Pinetown which were completely damaged.
One was that of a foreign investor; another was that of a black industrialist whose work of many years was in tatters.

We met with retailers in Gauteng shopping malls damaged during the unrest.

We met with community and other leaders and visited communities affected, and we addressed UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 132 meetings of unions and shop stewards to determine what steps were required in the rebuilding.
The Department of Trade, Industry and Competition conducted a survey across industries, reaching more than 1 000 firms and small businesses to determine the level of damage and to develop appropriate support measures to assist the companies.

Our officials worked with key supply chains to secure the flow of food and medicines to enable retailers to restock their distribution centres and their looted stores.
While the DA was politicking, we identified potential alternative suppliers where KwaZulu-Natal-based factories were damaged.

We addressed concerns by neighbouring countries on potential disruption to the flow of food and basic goods and we helped to secure their supply lines.

Our officials supported companies to unblock challenges in order to get production and distribution working again – unblocking challenges faced by firms at local level.
While the DA was politicking, we developed an economic recovery fund and we prioritised budgets to release resources.

We made a bid for additional funds to National Treasury.

We met with the Industrial Development Corporation and the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 133 National Empowerment Fund to identify potential monies that could be deployed.
Once that was done, the department met with the agencies to speed up the review of approval processes, to cut red tape and to enable and expedite a system of considering funding requests.

This morning we informed the portfolio committee that R262 million of funding had already been approved from applicant firms, saving and supporting some 3 800 jobs.

The support covered 63 retail or production sites in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng.
Additional applications are being considered by our agencies in financial products – from grants, to loans, to bridging finance.

We provided the portfolio committee this morning with the human stories of small and large businesses that have been supported; firms that will now be able to rebuild – clothing firms, paint distributors, pharmacies, members of a stokvel, a school ware producer.

Our officials contributed to developing the broader R38 billion relief package announced by the Minister of Finance.
We supported efforts, with food and medicine supplies to communities in distress from private charities to public actions by the Department of Social Development, to the efforts of the Solidarity Fund.

We UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 134 collected data from business groups and undertook economic modelling of the impact of the looting and damage and of the relief package on the economy.
The department gazetted exemptions to the Competition Act to enable businesses to co-ordinate their efforts to secure food, medicines and essential goods.

One of our agencies, the Industrial Policy Advisory Council, Ipac, published a special rebate facility that enables manufacturers, whose businesses were damaged, to import, free of duty, those goods not available locally, subject to commitments to rebuilding their businesses here in South Africa.
We engaged with international investors who were concerned about security and the safety of their personnel.

The unrest highlighted the urgency of building a more inclusive economy to reduce the opportunity, for those seeking to undermine the democratic order, to find fertile conditions in communities for their messages of destruction.
It raises the need for new approaches to address economic concentration and inequalities and to enable entrepreneurs from communities who own spaza shops and bakeries and factories to have greater access to shopping malls.

The key focus now is to scale up and UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 135 speed up so that the economic benefits flow to communities and the wider economy.
What many hon members said today was true – it’s about promoting greater partnerships between business and local communities with the focus on small and micro enterprises, on informal businesses linked to the ecosystems of large businesses whose work was really wiped out.

Law and order are critical for investment and consumer confidence.
We showed as South Africans – government and the private sector, communities and trade unions – that we can rebuild, that we can refocus and that we can come out of this crisis stronger and better.

Thank you.

Debate concluded.


Question put: That the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Small Business Development on Joint Oversight Visit to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng provinces with Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry and Select Committees on Trade and Industry, Economic Development, Small Business Development, Tourism, Employment and Labour be adopted.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TUESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2021 Page: 136 Report on Joint Oversight Visit to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng provinces with Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry and Select Committees on Trade and Industry, Economic Development, Small Business Development, Tourism, Employment and Labour according adopted.

Question put: That the Report of Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on Oversight Visit to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng provinces from 3 to 6 August be adopted.
Report on Oversight Visit to KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng provinces from 3 to 6 August accordingly adopted.

The House adjourned at 17:22.