Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698141670584.pdf (South Africa)
Tuesday, 17 October 2023] A 104 No 37– 2023] FIFTH SESSION, SIXTH PARLIAMENT REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA ____________ MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS OF NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES ____________ 1.

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TUESDAY, 17 OCTOBER 2023 The Council met at 14:01.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

The Chairperson announced that the virtual sitting constituted a sitting of the National Council of Provinces.

[14:05] Notices of motions.
[14:11] Mr J J Londt moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) (3) (4) notes that Die Skarrelhuisie in Grootbrak, Mossel Bay recently celebrated its first anniversary; recalls that this community project flows from a partnership formed between the Ward 4 Committee, the Ratepayers Association of Grootbrak and the Mossel Bay Municipality, and aims to create an enabling environment where job seekers and potential employers can link up to bring a positive change to people’s lives; acknowledges that Die Skarrelhuisie has helped more than 7 500 people to find a job opportunity to date; recognises that community projects like Die Skarrelhuisie, which are aimed at reducing unemployment and facilitating job placements, play an important role in fostering economic growth and social development, and in empowering individuals to become self-sufficient while enhancing the local economy; MINUTES: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES NO 37– 2023 Tuesday, 17 October 2023] A 105 (5) further acknowledges that it is important to continue supporting and expanding such projects to reach even more people, and that these community projects can continue to strengthen their impact and create sustainable employment solutions local businesses, organisations and government agencies; and through collaborating with (6) congratulates Die Skarrelhuisie on their achievements and wishes it all the best in continuing its good work in the future.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:15] Mr E M Mthethwa moved without notice: That the Council- (1) commends the initiative of the KwaZulu-Natal provincial Government to launch Thuthuka Driving Skills Programme which seeks to assist more than 3 000 people across all age groups to get free learners and driving licences from Code 08 to Code 14; (2) notes that this initiative is part of the provincial Transport Month campaign; (3) (4) also notes that engagement has already been initiated with the driving schools’ executives to bring them on board and work with them in rolling out this programme; believes that this initiative will contribute a great deal in increasing chances for unemployed people to access jobs, as when people have licences, they stand a better chance of being employed as drivers across all sectors; and (5) supports the call by the KwaZulu-Natal provincial Government for all unemployed citizens in the province to apply for this programme.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:20] Mr S F Du Toit moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) notes with great sadness of the passing of AO.
Karien Schultz – a respected SAPS Member from Kempton Park Visible Policing unit; notes that this SAPS member was not only a public servant, but a wife to a husband, a mother to her children, a giant among friends and a confidant among colleagues; (3) notes that her legacy of fair judgement, respect and empathy, will live on in her absence; and (4) conveys our heartfelt condolences to the Schultz family.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:21] Mr M E Nchabeleng moved without notice: That the Council- MINUTES: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES NO 37– 2023 Tuesday, 17 October 2023] A 106 (1) (2) (3) notes with utmost concern the persisting high levels of crime and blatant disregard of human life in many parts of the country; further notes that the high levels of crime are exacerbated by a number of factors that include utter disregard of the border management systems of our country that has seen a frightening rise in cross border crime, cash- in- transit crimes, “Zama-Zamas” and the illegal and forceful occupation of derelict and unoccupied public buildings; and takes this opportunity to express its support to the Minister of Defence, Honourable Minister Thandi Modise for more resources to support the work of the defence and expand its capabilities to speedily address some of these challenges, especially the organised armed crimes like the cash-in-transit Crimes, the “Zama-Zamas” and the outbreaks of fires and other natural disasters.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[ 14:25] Ms A D Maleka moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) commends members of the Ekurhuleni District and Edenpark police stations for arresting perpetrators responsible for attacking the police on Thursday, 12 October 2023; notes that the police arrested five suspects, including the driver of the car that the police had stopped in an attempt to search it before they were attacked; also notes that the suspects will appear before the Palmridge Magistrate’s Court on charges of obstructing police in the execution of their duties, attack on police officers, assault on police officers and an attempted robbery; believes that an attack against a member of the police is an attack against the state, and those that seek to undermine the authority of the State should be dealt with decisively; and condemns the ongoing attacks on police officers with the contempt it deserves and calls for more severe sentences for all those found guilty of attacking members of the police.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:27] Ms E N Nkosi moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) congratulates the Springboks’ tight margin 29-28 victory over the host nation, France in the 2023 Rugby World Cup quarter-final match on Sunday, 15 October 2023; notes that both countries displayed a sterling performance and a good which was enjoyed by 80 000 spectators at the stadium as well as millions of people and dramatic Rugby game in Paris, around the world; MINUTES: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES NO 37– 2023 Tuesday, 17 October 2023] A 107 (3) (4) (5) reckons that the Springboks' victory in Paris has opened the way for the team to advance to the semi-final against England on Saturday, 21 October 2023; also congratulate the South African Cricket team in their good start in the cricket world cup by winning both their opening matches and wish them well in their match against Netherlands; calls upon all South Africans to rally behind “Amabhokobhoko” in their semi- final encounter with England and the Proteas cricket team with the rest of their matches; and (6) wishes both teams success in their world cup campaigns.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:29] Mr I Ntsube moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) notes with utter dismay and profound sadness the brutal and devastating violence and destruction in Israel and Gaza since Saturday, 7 October last week; further notes that the atrocities and senseless murder of innocent civilians, particularly women and children that the world has witnessed since the 7th of October are the latest chapter in a painful history of suffering, oppression, occupation and conflict going back more than 75 years; acknowledges that the harrowing deaths of Israeli and Palestinian civilians are a shock to our collective humanity and as South Africans, we are particularly filled with deep sorrow as some who have died are South African citizens caught in the conflict; reiterates the call of the South African government that the Palestinians and Israeli people should come together, reconcile, and choose the path of a just peace; and takes this opportunity to express its profound sadness and condolences to the countless families and individuals who have lost their family members and those who are going through the most difficult time in hospitals and facing a bleak and endless future of senseless death, violence, oppression and discrimination.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:35] Mr K M Mmoiemang moved without notice: That the Council- (1) welcomes the 2022 South Africa's national Census results, which were handed over to President Cyril Ramaphosa at the Union Buildings in Pretoria on Tuesday,10 October 2023; MINUTES: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES NO 37– 2023 Tuesday, 17 October 2023] A 108 (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) notes that Census 2022 is a valuable tool at the disposal of the Government and policy-makers, as the data contained in a census is most crucial in informing the planning, budgeting and policy-making work of government; further notes that the 2022 South Africa's national results show a remarkable increase in population and service delivery; further recognises that the Census shows that in 1996 only 80% of households in the country had access to piped water against 92% in 2022; also recognises that the proportion of households using electricity as the main source of energy for lighting increased significantly from 58.1% in 1996 to 94.7% in 2022; therefore believes that Census 2022 will assist in pinpointing especially to the law-makers and Government where progress has been made as well as challenges that need to be resolved; and (7) applauds Statistics South Africa for the credibility, and integrity and magnitude of data they have collected and went into compiling Census 2022.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[ 14:38] Ms H S Boshoff moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) notes with concern that three persons sadly passed away on Monday, 3 October 2023, when two articulated trucks were involved in a side-swipe collision on the R36 between Lydenburg and Bambi; further notes that another person sustained critical injuries and was subsequently airlifted to a nearby hospital; recalls that the R36 has claimed many other lives over the years and that many accidents have been caused by the road’s bad conditions and the non- completion of contracts to improve these conditions; acknowledges that one of the contractors suspended its work due to payment- related issues and the non-compliance of the Mpumalanga Department of Public Works, Roads and Transport to provide the agreed upon materials, as indicated by the Departmental Spokesperson, Mr Bongani Dhlamini; recognises that the Department has indicated that the completion of the current refurbishments will only be completed by February 2024; and calls upon the Department of Transport and the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs to monitor the progress of the refurbishments, and to provide monthly updates to this Council on the progress, to ensure that it is completed by February 2024 to combat accidents and prevent the further loss of lives on this road.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

MINUTES: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES NO 37– 2023 Tuesday, 17 October 2023] A 109 14.
[14:40] Ms N Ndongeni moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) (3) (4) notes with utmost concern and apprehension the brutal and senseless murder of police officers across the country; further notes that since the beginning of 2023, more than fifteen police officers were killed and several more were left with career-threatening injuries, leaving members of the police force fearing for their safety in the quest to serve and protect our people; acknowledges that the unabated senseless killing of police officers is not only a blatant attack against the state, but also a gross violation of the rights of South Africans by heartless criminals; and takes this opportunity to call on Minister Bheki Cele to double the fight against the heartless and callous criminals who have declared violence and death against police officers.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:42] Ms D G Mahlangu moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) (3) notes and welcomes the launch of the Border Management Authority (BMA) at the Musina Showgrounds in Limpopo on Thursday, 5 October 2023; acknowledges that the launch of the BMA is a fulfilment of the commitment to establish a single, integrated and efficient authority to manage and secure the borders of the Republic of South Africa to ensure that South Africans live in peace and harmony with each other and with our neighbours; and reaffirms its support to all national efforts to strengthen the integrity of the country’s border security and admits that when our country’s ports of entry and borders are well-protected and well-managed, we are able to prevent the illegal importation and exit of goods.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[ 14:44] Mr D R Ryder moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) notes the simultaneous recent outbreaks of avian influenza and Rabbit Viral Haemorrhagic Disease in the Republic; acknowledges that these outbreaks have a devastating effect on our agricultural sector, and that the resultant impact on the rising food prices will be borne by South Africans who are already struggling to make ends meet due to the cost-of-living crisis; (3) recognises that the Republic’s animal health system is woefully unprepared to deal with these outbreaks; MINUTES: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES NO 37– 2023 Tuesday, 17 October 2023] A 110 (4) (5) (6) calls on the State Veterinarian and the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development to act urgently to intervene in the management of these outbreaks, and to ensure that vaccines are procured to deal effectively with the H8N6 strain, which has destroyed the livelihoods of poultry farmers; further calls on the State Veterinarian and the Department to facilitate open channels of communication and ensure that affected farmers and other role players are kept well-informed; and requests the Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, Ms A T Didiza, MP, to update this Council on the Government’s interventions to ensure that poultry and rabbit farmers are able to protect their workers’ jobs and are able to restart their businesses.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:46] Ms C Visser moved without notice: That the Council- (1) (2) (3) (4) notes the alleged constitutional infringement of the basic human rights of the forgotten people of Ditshotswane by the Tswaing Local Municipality, which relocated them to an open section of Agisanang Ward 8 almost 14 years ago with the promise of a suitable housing development before they were forgotten; recognises that these people are forced to live in the most inhumane conditions without access to running water, toilets, and adequate shelter, and that their make-shift shacks are regularly blown away by strong winds and burned to ashes by veld fires, resulting in the loss of the entire existence of these vulnerable people; acknowledges that the right to adequate housing as enshrined in section 26 of the Constitution, and the rights to access healthcare, sufficient food and water and social security as enshrined in section 27 of the Constitution are important basic human rights, which are indivisible and interdependent; calls on the Ngaka Modiri Molema District Municipality and the Tswaing Local Municipality as the Water and Sanitation Service Authorities, and the North West Department of Human Settlements to intervene and prioritise the improvement of the current living conditions of the forgotten people of Ditshotswane; and (5) calls on the Tswaing Local Municipality to prioritise the development of suitable housing for the forgotten people of Ditshotswane as a matter of urgency.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[ 14:48] Mr S Aucamp moved without notice: That the Council- (1) notes with sadness the untimely passing of six military service men and women during the recent veld fires that ravaged the Lohatla Military Base; MINUTES: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES NO 37– 2023 Tuesday, 17 October 2023] A 111 (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) further notes that these and other veld fires recently caused extensive damage in Lohatla, Gamagara, Kuruman, Kathu, Daniëlskuil and other areas in the Northern Cape, North West and Free State provinces; acknowledges the sterling work of the various fire-fighting organisations, a large number of farmers, other persons and companies who unselfishly made their fire-fighting equipment and other resources such as vehicles and funding available, and put their own lives at risk to assist in containing the extent of the damage caused by these veld fires; recognises that there is an urgent need for fodder to be made available to those farmers who lost extensive grazing fields due to the devastating veld fires; calls on the Premiers of the Northern Cape, North West and Free State provinces to declare the affected areas disaster areas to assist with the release of additional emergency funds; further calls on the relevant Members of the Executive Councils in these provinces to immediately approve the distribution of fodder from fodder banks to the affected farmers; also extends its sincere condolences to the families of the six military service men and women who tragically lost their lives; and thanks the various fire-fighting organisations, the large number of farmers, other persons and companies for their efforts to assist.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:50] The Chief Whip of the Council, moved: That the Council elects Ms Linda Nellie Moss as the Programming Whip in terms of Council Rule 22 with effect from 17 October 2023.

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga.

Question put: That the Motion be agreed to.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West.

ABSTAIN: Western Cape.


Motion accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

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[14:59] The Council discussed the following subject: Debate on International Rural Women’s Day 2023: Expanding agricultural and rural development opportunities for rural women in South Africa.

MINUTES: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES NO 37– 2023 Tuesday, 17 October 2023] A 112 Debate concluded.

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The Council adjourned at 17:51.


X GEORGE Secretary to Parliament MINUTES: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES NO 37– 2023