Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698832710274.pdf (South Africa)
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 1 THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ____ The House met at 14:03.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I rise on point 83 to inform the House that the DA today had an internal election within its caucus and it is my pleasure to inform the House that Ms Siviwe Gwarube was elected the Deputy Chief Whip of the Official Opposition in the National Assembly.

[Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Congratulations, hon member.

That is putting more responsibility in your hands here.

Good.

We hope you keep orderly, right?

[Laughter.]

To lead by example.


Hon members, as usual we emphasise that you must be seated for as long as you can cope.

It’s important that we keep our UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 2 distance to prevent the spread of this crazy variant that’s afloat in our country.

It is important that we act appropriately.


DEBATE ON 16 DAYS OF ACTIVISM FOR NO VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AND CHILDREN: BUILDING SAFER COMMUNITIES AND REALISING GENDER EQUALITY THROUGH SOCIOECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT OF WOMEN AND YOUTH IN THE YEAR OF CHARLOTTE MAXEKE The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Minister of Social Development hon Lindiwe Zulu.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Thank you very much, Deputy President.

Yes, indeed, the debate is quite important for us, particularly ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister ...


The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: ... for building safer communities and realising gender equality through the socioeconomic empowerment of women and youth in the year of Charlotte Maxeke.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 3 Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, fellow South Africans and, in particular, the young people of South Africa, we are debating the theme of building safer communities and realising gender equality through the socioeconomic empowerment of women and youth in the year of Charlotte Maxeke, because we are on a journey to change the fortunes of the people of South Africa and, in particular, we are focusing on the issues which remain painful.
Year after year we come to this honourable House to repeat almost one and the same thing with the hope that the nation overall will finally hear the cries of women and children who find themselves in the difficult condition of gender-based violence.

I am confident, hon Deputy Speaker, that members of the National Assembly, members of the NCOP, our government and our provincial legislatures everywhere will focus on doing something to make the change that is necessary for our people.
As I start, Chairperson, I also want to congratulate the hon member of the DA on rising to her new position and we would like to say to her that we wish her well and we are here to support her whenever possible.

As women we have to support UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 4 each other, in one way or another.

Sometimes, irrespective of our political differences, we need to rise as women and support each other.
Thank you for this opportunity to present to you the government’s implementation progress report against the backdrop of the National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide 2019 – 2024.

Hon Chairperson, I hope that the members who follow me with their speeches will focus more on what we need to do collectively as South Africans to end gender-based violence so that the women of South Africa feel safe in whichever corner they are in in South Africa, irrespective of the area they are in.
Whether they are in rural areas or urban areas, whether it is morning or whether it is during the day, or whether it is in the evening, the women of South Africa deserve to feel that they are safe.
As we present this report to this eminent House, we do so with the deliberate intention to build safer communities and realise gender equality through the socioeconomic empowerment of women and youth in the year in which we are commemorating 150 years of the courageous life and pioneering spirit of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 5 uMama Charlotte Maxeke.
An intellectual, a diplomat, a freedom fighter, a visionary social worker, she is the personification of the rejection of surveillance and objectification of women’s bodies as much as she is the invocation of human capabilities towards the realisation of freedoms and our common prosperity.
It is against this background that our government has resolved to build safer communities in which women of all ages can live their lives free of panic, fear, anxiety and distrust or that they may be violently targeted for no reason other than the fact that they are women.

A report by an advisory service company estimated that, at a minimum, gender-based violence alone had cost our country R42,4 billion or 1,3% of its gross domestic product in 2017.
On 11 March 2020, Cabinet adopted the National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide 2019 – 2024, founded within the framework of a South Africa that is free from all forms of violence.

The National Strategic Plan, the NSP, is our strategic response to the violence that targets women and children, and UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 6 lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersex, asexual+ persons, which we normally call LGBTQIA+ persons.
Cabinet also established the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide, or IMC on GBVF, whose task is to lead and co-ordinate efforts to provide overall strategic leadership and co-ordination on the implementation of the priorities and the six pillars of the National Strategic Plan.
I want to say at this point, Chairperson, that it was on the basis of the marches and actions of women on the ground – the women who came together and said: Let us do everything we can to stop gender-based violence and femicide and let us call on our government and hold our government accountable for the programmes that the government has said it will implement – that this government of the ANC agreed, through President Cyril Ramaphosa, to meet with the women and make sure that we work together with women from all walks of life to ensure that we finally have the National Strategic Plan.
The six pillars of the National Strategic Plan are the following.

Owing to the Inter-Ministerial Committee, the NSP is being institutionalised through the whole of government and with whole-of-society approaches.

The district development model, in particular, is proving useful in facilitating the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 7 localisation, responsiveness, relevance and visibility of the priorities of the NSP in communities.
Government allocated R21 billion over the three-year Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period, which will be supplemented with the R128 million that was pledged through the GBVF Response Fund.

At this point, I wish to thank those who are managing the fund and say to them that we are here to work together with them.

Taken together, the IMC reinforces accountability from all of society, thereby, correctly so, making GBVF a shared responsibility.
The second pillar enables the implementation of violence- prevention programmes and for the interventions that strengthen social cohesion efforts toward our society’s moral regeneration.

This includes the strengthening of state capacity through dynamic and responsive people.
Private, civic, academic and multilateral partnerships with community- grounded formations are working, for instance, to promote violence-free public and private spaces; to reproduce positive social behavioural change; to eradicate toxic masculinity while positively promoting and integrating LGBTQIA+ identities and expressions in our communities; and to restore human UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 8 dignity and build supportive communities that are capable of responding to trauma.
Pursuant to this pillar, the National School of Government has developed a five-day online course that, among other things, specifically addresses gender mainstreaming - which is one of the biggest challenges; we have been talking about gender mainstreaming for a very long time – and GBVF and gender- responsive planning, budgeting, monitoring, evaluating and auditing in the public sector.
Together with the SA Local Government Association, Salga, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is implementing capacity-building programmes on GBVF in the country’s 278 metropolitan districts and local municipalities.

Through the Government Communication and Information System, the GCIS, government is sustaining anti-GBVF media campaigns through community dialogue, schools, tertiary institutions, social media, webinars and radio talk shows.
The third pillar addresses the systematic challenges that previously resulted in inadequate responses to the management of GBVF cases.

It is through this pillar that the victims of GBV will gain access to qualitatively improved justice, safety UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 9 and protection measures.
To achieve this, you would recall that Parliament is considering the following Bills: the Criminal and Related Matters Amendment Bill of 2020, the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill, the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Bill, and the Criminal and Related Matters Bill.

To date, 32 regional courts are ready to be designated sexual offences courts.
In the past six months, more than 3 409 family violence, child protection and sexual offences investigating officers were reached through trauma debriefing sessions.

One hundred percent of the DNA test kits, that are crucial to sexual assault cases, were delivered and used by South Africa’s Police Service.

Yes, we do agree that there is still a need for us to focus particularly on getting these DNA tests so that the job is done on time.
The fourth pillar is framed to ensure all survivors of GBV have access to appropriate and sensitive responses, care and support in their immediate-, medium- and long-term healing.

Through well-resourced implementation of the pillar, survivors should be able to get on the path towards reclaiming their bodies and improving their mental and physical health, wellbeing, lives and indeed livelihoods through this pillar.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 10 Existing response, care, support and healing services and systems should be strengthened and overhauled.

People, public private, civic, academic and multilateral partnerships and relationships should be operationalised and improved, and the resilience of institutions, communities and families should be strengthened.
I have said, hon Deputy Speaker and members, that if we want to deal with gender-based violence, we need to make sure that the actions and activities are happening from house to house, street to street and community to community; and that communities are able to support each other.

Please allow me to reiterate that our families, the most basic unit upon which our society is founded, need sustained reinforcement in order for them to protect South Africa’s most precious resource: our children.
In the same vein, men must play active, positive and nurturing roles in their children’s lives, girls and boys alike.

Resilient families are the cornerstones and foundations of solid communities.

Nothing about families without families.

Consequently, the following pieces of legislation and policies are at different stages of development and will also add to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 11 government’s deepening war against GBVF.
There is, one, the draft Victim Support Services Bill; two, the draft intersectoral policy framework on the provision of sheltering services; and, three, the draft policy on the provision of psychosocial services.

In terms of pillar four, our government has increased the footprint of care, support and healing facilities to cover all nine provinces.

While the number of facilities has increased to 136, their bed capacity is 1 687.
Last year we transferred additional resources to the provincial departments of social development for them to appoint 200 GBV social workers.

During this period, not only did we partner with 249 civil-society organisations in the fight against GBVF, but we also trained and assigned 100 GBVF ambassadors who will be providing relevant services in the identified hot spots around the country.

Coming to pillar five: this pillar is aimed at transforming the structural challenges that are embedded deep in ...
[Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, I’m afraid your time has expired.

I gave you extra seconds to finish, but now that is not going to work because your time has really expired.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 12 The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: It is my pleasure, Chairperson.

I was almost done with my presentation and I am sure my comrades will cover the areas which I did not cover.

Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright.

Thank you.


[Applause.]

Ms N K SHARIF: Deputy Speaker, let me make this clear, women are not asking for any favours, and claiming our space to be here is non-negotiable.

I must admit, it is rather laughable that this government adopted one of the themes for this year’s 16 Days of Activism as, Moving from awareness to accountability, like “lol”, crying face emoji.

What does this even mean though?


Who in this government will come here today and take accountability for their failures?

Please, balance me real quick, what accountability are you talking about?

If you are going to run with this theme, you must submit yourself to being held accountable here today, without sounding defensive and pathetic.

If you are going sign off on this theme, you must be able to come here and admit your failures before we can take you seriously.
The kid gloves are off and they will remain off.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 13 The fight against gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF, is stagnant.

It took months of nagging, putting pressure and providing recommendations by the DA and civil organisations to establish the National Council on GBVF.

It took protest action and petitions to get the legislation moving and finally, we saw the Bill being gazetted.

Look, this Bill is a good step.


I will not deny this one tiny little praise.

Naturally, however, it was only a matter of time when balls dropped.

Public participation and getting buy-in from society was inadequate, rushed and selective.

If you are going to do something, just do it properly.

We live in a country where our lives are taken lightly.

If government really cared about the lives of women and the LGBT plus, we would have been able to see progress.
The system perpetuated by this government is innately violent and it restricts progress and limits freedoms.

It is all well and good to have ideas in theory, to have a plan, but if it is not implemented, and actioned with precision, political will, efficient teams and strong leadership, it means nothing.

Your theories, your plans, your repetitive speeches mean nothing, and for this, you must take accountability.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 14 Stop with your rhetoric; no one believes you anymore.

Stop playing exes and oes with our money and emotions and start spending the budget on things that matter.

Stop being annoying with your lies and attempts to make it sound like you are getting a grip around GBVF, when it is women and the violence they face that have you gripped around the neck.
We must remove the red tape in government that holds our country hostage, step number one.

Why must it be so difficult to get an efficient public service?

When victims and survivors seek help from our public service, they must be able to get it, without having to beg.

Building trust within government institutions like SAPS and within the justice system must happen.

Building trust obviously does not happen in a day; it takes hard work and determination to accomplish.
There must be more training for GBVF frontline workers.

This training must be in- depth, it must happen continuously, it must challenge social norms and it must be uncomfortable.

There has to be processes in place that deal with incompetency and failure.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 15 This is not about taking one failed cadre and moving them elsewhere; this is about firing those who don’t perform and hiring those who want to do the work.
Another suggestion the DA will give this government for free is to prioritise processes that monitor and evaluate all government work without fear or favour.

How on earth, Minister Mashabane, would you measure yourself and your success rate when your targets are focused around report writing and attending meetings?

I mean, you don’t even attend committee meetings.


It is only through monitoring and evaluation that you are able to know what works, change what does not and find new ways to deal with old problems.

I mean, this is not rocket science.

Next, budgets must be spent on things that matter and things that will have an impact.
Minister Mashabane, you cannot spend most of your budget paying high salaries for official to take a year to develop a framework, but rather use these budgets for programmes that assist women, for example, with legal assistance when they need help against their abusive husbands.

Again, ... Afrikaans: UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 16 ... vang tips [wenke].
English: Honestly, you can have all the themes you want, you can have all the debates you want, it does not change the fact that we live in a country where I might leave Parliament right now, after this debate and I might be harassed, raped, assaulted or murdered.

This is the country we live in.

I thank you.

[Applause.]

Setswana: Moh O M C MAOTWE: Maotwe, Mokgalaje.

Maotwe, e seng maoto.


English: Deputy Speaker, this past Sunday, Ntomboxolo Xhobane, a 41- year-old woman was butchered to death by her estranged husband in Delft, Cape Town.

Ntomboxolo had decided to leave their marital home in Cape Town and went to live with family in Delft after she found her husband to be having open sexual relations with other women in the township.

The husband then went to her family home and killed her there in cold blood.
While he is now arrested, he will likely spend a couple of years in jail and then get released on parole, as is now the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 17 case with Oscar Pistorius and thousands of other perpetrators of this heinous crimes against women in this country.

Early in October, Flavio Hlabangwane was arrested in Soweto, after it was discovered to have killed and chopped a female companion and stashed her body parts in a fridge.
He too will likely face the minimum sentence prescribed for the cases of this nature and then come back to society in which he has permanently removed this victim.

In August, Nosicelo Mtebeni, a last-year student at the University of Fort Hare was murdered and had her body cut into pieces and stashed in a suitcase by Alutha Pasile who was at the time alleged to be her boyfriend.
In September, Nikita Maloni, a 20-year-old woman from Kwatshatshu Village, just outside King William’s Town was killed by the father of their then seven-month-old baby, even after she had gone to the police to obtain a protection order against the abusive boyfriend.
We can go on and on the whole day, mentioning the names of women who have had their lives brutally taken from them by men who left behind their children with scars for the rest of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 18 their lives, who left behind their families, who have to live with the agony for the rest of their lives.

The violence and abuse against women are not only growing in this country, but the level of brutality is also getting even more sadistic.
The institutions meant to protect women against these crimes seem to be folding their hands or are woefully out of depths and do not know what to do with these crimes.

The Minister of Police reported that, between April and June this year, over 10 000 rape cases were reported in South Africa and that between July and September, almost 12 000 sexual offenses were reported in police stations across the country.
We now all know that reported cases represent only a fraction of the actual crime going on in this country and that thousands more cases of sexual offenses do not get reported to police stations.

We also know that of the reported cases, only a tiny fraction will be prosecuted and only a handful of the perpetrators will ever go to jail.

This country is failing women.


Our police, the prosecuting authority, the magistrates, the judges and the correctional UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 19 service facilities are hell-bent on perpetuating these crimes against women by giving the perpetrators a slap on the wrist.
The formally yearly event marking 16 Days of Activism of No Violence Against Women and Children has become a meaningless box-ticking exercise, because it offers no reprieve of any kind to women in the townships, workplaces, in villages whose bodies have been turned into crime scenes by the violence perpetrated by men in the main.

We understand that the violence against women is a societal problem and not merely a policing problem.

We know that we need to eliminate poverty.


We need to have better human settlement that allow for the full dignity of our people.

We know that our people must have the land, the jobs, their freedom to express their spirituality in a free manner.

While we pursue this ideas of social justice, we need to get our policing in order.

It is a crime against society that SAPS has not been able to sort out the backlogs in their forensic laboratories, endangering thousands of rape cases across the country.
It is a crime against society that women do not feel safe going to report these cases at SAPS, because they know that there are not enough trained officials to deal with cases UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 20 of women abuse at the police stations.

We are tired of having to participate in this box-ticking exercise every year, while women are being killed on a daily basis.
We are tired of lip service and expensive functions that yield no results to the protection of women in this country.

We are tired of the rhetoric of thinking that gender-based violence and femicide is an occasion and it must be looked at within a period of time.

We need action ... IsiZulu: ... manje ... English: ... not tomorrow, not later.

Now is the time to fight this societal problem.

We need decisive leadership, not the clownish conduct and their Minister of Police.

I thank you.
I thank you.

Ms M D HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, thank you, as we are gathered here today, the debate on the international campaign on the 16 Days of Activism to end gender-based violence, GBV, and honour Mama Charlotte Maxeke, the women of South Africa UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 21 are still waging a daily war against the monster of gender- based violence.

This silent pandemic violates, brutalises and tearing our communities and families apart.
We cannot begin to debate social and economic empowerment while our women and children are being slaughtered almost daily like animals.

Despite the horrific daily report against our mothers, daughters and sisters, the government has failed dismally to protect the women of South Africa.

Between April and June 2021 alone, over 10 000 women were raped, according to the latest crime quarterly report.

This is only 72,4 increase compared to the same period last year.

We have managed crime and damage changed.


Yet, the government has still failed to convene a National Council on GBV and Femicide three years later, while has the National Council on GBV and Femicide Bill only published in October 2021 - why?

IsiZulu: Sesikhathele ukuma njalo unyaka nonyaka sithi sigubha lo 16 kodwa abesifazane baseNingizimu Afrika basasaba ukuphumela emgwaqeni, basesaba ukuphuma bayobona ngoba izigilamkhuba nezigelekeqe usuku nosuku ziyababulala.
Abantwana bethu abaphephile, omama nodadewethu.

English: UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 22 The COVID-19 pandemic undeniable has a much greater impact on the women of South Africa than the men.

The injustice burden had to be carried by women, who were both frontline workers and caregivers at home.

The IFP sees what the women of South Africa face and demand government action and action now, to promote additional protection to our women working on the frontline.
In July 2021, the IFP demanded that the KwaZulu- Natal MEC for Social Development break her silence on when social workers would be vaccinated.

The IFP demanded that social workers, the majority of which are women, must be prioritised for COVID-19 vaccine in KZN and nationwide.

The COVID-19 has deepened gender inequality and now more than ever, we need to fight for equal pay, equal opportunity for woman, especially in local communities.
The first step in empowering our women is to ensure safer communities.

We need action now.

Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Hlengwa, your time has expired.

Please, hon members just adhere to your allocated time.

Afrikaans: Me T BREEDT: Agb Adjunkspeaker ... English: UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 23 ... we are exactly halfway into 16 Days of Activism for no violence against women and children campaign.
We are commemorating the 22nd, 16 Days of Activism campaign this year.

We are debating no violence against women and children for the fourth time this year.

We have debated GBVF more than 12 times since the start of the Sixth Parliament and what tangible difference has these campaigns, the debates, these talk shops brought to the female and child victims of abuse - none.

According to the latest crime statistics, rape is up by 72,4% or 2,8%, depending on what year you use as your benchmark.
Sexual offences increased by 47,1% over 15 000 cases related to domestic violence was reported and yes, statistics can be manipulated and the different levels of lockdown have made statistics difficult to compare to prior years.

But whether the crime statistics are distorted or not, the fact remains, gender-based violence and femicide is up and it is unacceptable.
In the Minister of Police’s own words “the statistics show once again that South Africa is a very violent country.” Afrikaans: Betinna Wyngaard som dit net so mooi op toe sy gesê het, “Suid-Afrika het van die mees progressiewe menseregte wetgewing ter wêreld, en die beste UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 24 geslagsbeskermingsmeganismes in die wêreld, maar is ook een van die gevaarlikste lande vir vroue om in te woon in die wêreld.” English: And I ask again, what tangible differences have been made since the inception of this campaign?
What tangible differences have the implementation of current law or be it by no means an adequate laws made to assist women and children in need?

What tangible difference has been made at police stations to support victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape?

What tangible difference has a Sexual Offences Court made to the victims of sexual offences besides traumatise them?

What tangible difference does it make if not even 12% of police stations countrywide have rape cases?
Little to no tangible difference has been felt by the victims.

Deputy Speaker, I am frustrated by the lack of change.

My colleagues that serve on this committee, hon Sharif and the rest are frustrated by the lack of change.

South Africans are frustrated by the lack of change.

Twenty months after the approval of the R21 billion plan to eradicate GBVF by 2030 and the promise of establishing a National Council of GBVF - we are still waiting.
More than two years after the passing of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 25 Uyinene, Baby-Lee Jacobs, Tazne van Wyk and the outcry by the country in mourning for its lives lost brutally, what has changed?

What accountability has there been after countless protests and even at a joint sitting on a matter of national importance to discuss the way forward of GBVF, what has changed?

What accountability has there been?


Government has a responsibility to ensure that the police have the necessary resources to combat GBVF.

The dysfunctional of the forensic division and, especially DNA backlog is unacceptable and it needs to be addressed.

This cannot stay a talk shop.

Every citizen and community also have a responsibility to stop the moral decay, which leads to it, but it starts with us as political leaders.
Chairperson, I conclude, the theme is moving from awareness to accountability this year but forgive my cynicism.

They say that seeing is believing and I sincerely hope that this year, we shall see.

I thank you.

Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon Radebe, what are you rising on?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 26 Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I raised my hand when the hon ...

[Inaudible.]
[Inaudible.]

... was still on the platform because according to the Rules we cannot speak unless we raise the hand on our gadgets.

I raised my hand during that time.

What I am requesting is that ...

I am rising on Rule 84.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Radebe?

Mr B A RADEBE: Yes, baba.

IsiZulu: USEKELA SOMLOMO: ... manje ufuna ukuthini ngoba sesiphakathi ngokuxoxa le ndaba.

English: Mr B A RADEBE: No, the issue is that the Rules were not observed.
The Rules are very clear, hon Deputy Speaker, that when you are on the platform, before you speak you should raise your hand through your gadget.

I raised my hand then and it was not recognised.

I don’t know whether you were aware of that or not.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, next time we will find a way to make sure we see your hand when it’s raised so that I can attend to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 27 you.

[Interjections.]

It’s okay now – that’s fine.


We have passed that; we will deal with it.

Okay, ntate.

Hon Sukers?

Ms M E SUKERS: Deputy Speaker ... IsiZulu: ... Wathint’ abafazi, wathin’ imbokodo ... English: ... is the slogan of the women’s movement in our nation.

Well, women are struck every day, every hour and minute in this country.

Her children are exposed to trauma and violence from the womb to an early grave.
The impact of violence in the development of children in areas such as the Cape Flats and the prevalence of mental disorders are areas of research that must be prioritised.

We must go on the offensive in this fight and unify our efforts beyond party lines.

The women of this Sixth Parliament must take on the issues of gender-based violence as a legacy project for the sixth term.

We must challenge gender-based violence within the structures of power and address the abuse of power where it exists.
The low rate of investigations and convictions of police officials who perpetrate heinous crimes against vulnerable women demands UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 28 a strong response from us.

The Kannaland debacle should have never happened.

The ANC has further tarnished the legacies of people like Charlotte Maxeke and Albert Luthuli in their support of the Independent Civic Organisation of South Africa, Icosa.
And only after tremendous pressure, it took the decision to withdraw from the agreement.

This was a terrible example of moral leadership that also tarnished the credibility of President Cyril Ramaphosa and the ANC as the so-called progressive movement.

In Kannaland, there is a culture of exploitation that resembles the past, a culture of impunity where young girls are being exploited by men for economic survival – sex for gifts or money.
It contains elements of the ugly history of migrant labour, where women have to survive in this country by giving up their bodies for a roof over their heads and for the survival of their children.

The ANC should apologise to the nation for its support of Icosa in that municipality, for it endorsed the sexual abuse of minors, the exploitation of women, and it continues to excuse the rape by powerful men in the name of political expediency.
I say this to you today in memory of the teachers evoked in us the idea of a just society by mentioning the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 29 names of Chief Albert Luthuli and the history of the ANC.

You represented the ideal of justice for all to a generation.

It is an indictment to your history.


To the women of Africa and this nation South Africa, the Biblical story declares that your seed will trample the head of the snake, and that some of you will rebuild the deserted ruins of your cities.

You will be known as the rebuilder of walls and a restorer of homes.

Rise in the power of God unashamedly, fearlessly ... [Time expired.]
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, more than twenty years after the campaign for 16 Days of Activism for No Violence against Women and Children was adopted, a lot of gaps still remain.

Gender-based violence has actually become very prevalent and pervasive in our society, and has become one of the most pervasive human rights violations in this country and globally if you like – as one in three women keep experiencing this kind of violence on a regular basis.
As we are already aware, not only does gender-based violence threaten human security, peace and development, it also shut our lives on a daily basis.

We wake up daily to stories of how our women are being victimised by men, people who are supposed UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 30 to protect them and ensure the safety of everyone on a daily basis.
When we go to provinces to do constituency work, we also hear of stories of young women, in particular, and women in general, who alleged that there are many stories in municipalities, provincial governments when it comes to tenders - where there is also allegation of sex for tenders and where they are expected to pay with sex for jobs.

And these are things that society needs to root out if we are to root out the scourge of gender-based violence.
Let us be honest, campaigns like the 16 Days of Activism for No Violence against Women and Children while there are great initiatives to curb the problem, they are not enough on their own to fight against the pandemic.

We have to address all the systemic changes and challenges that impede the ...

[Inaudible.]

... gender and the approach that we have adopted over the past couple of years.
First of all, we have to unite and fight against gender inequality because it is such prevailing inequalities perpetrated by a patriarchal system across the social, economic and political spectrum that seem to normalise male dominance over women.

The same inequalities that allow an economic form of violence against women is gender pay cap, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 31 where there is a difference in wages between men and women for the same work of equal value.
We must encourage and equip women to participate and to make sure that they are fully equipped to participate in the economic mixed stream of the country.

The other thing that government needs to do urgently is to make sure that we have the political wheel needed to strengthen and enforce reasonable laws against all the perpetrators.
The capacity of law enforcement agencies must be reinforced for them to perform two investigations of all gender-based violence reported crimes and to ensure that all cases are concluded and that all perpetrators are thrown in jail so that we can make an example about all of those who continue to violate our women.

I thank you, Chair.

Ms T L MARAWU: Deputy Speaker, heartfelt condolences to the families who lost their loved ones, future leaders of this country, due to gender-based violence.
To name one, Nosicelo Mtebeni and many more others, may their precious souls rest in peace.

It is clear that we have a massive problem regarding gender-based violence in our country and what the government is doing now is just a drop in the ocean.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 32 More intensive efforts are needed to adequately deal with the scourge.
Just to mention a few, government’s Gender-Based Violence Command Centre alone recorded more than 120 000 victims on the first few weeks of lockdown.

Vodacom support call centres saw a 65% increase in calls from women and children seeking urgent help after lockdown began.
A report from the SA Police Service, the SAPS, is reporting that only about 14% of the perpetrators goes to trial and there are conditions on only about 7% of these cases - which means retraining of our police to deal with gender-based violence is very critical.

As long as women are economically depending on abusive men for survival, the surge on gender-based violence will continue to rise.
Let us appreciate the sector-led, multisectoral Gender- based Violence and Femicide Response Fund from the President, but we are saying that it is not enough.

Let there be budgets for all the pillars within the National Strategic Plan – the gender-based violence pillars.

That will assist a lot in making the National Development Plan rules to be realistic as far as gender-based violence is concerned.
We are proposing that at least all the departments must have a ring-fenced budget to deal with gender-based violence.

Over UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 33 and above, most of the time gender-based violence is taking place at ward level.

Municipalities are quiet in terms of addressing the gender-based violence.

One of the recommendation would be to take municipalities on board and have a dedicated budget to address the gender-based violence.
As ATM, we are firm on saying that justice-based capital punishment, which is equal to death penalty to all heinous crimes will be the solution.

I thank you.

Mr S N AUGUST: Deputy Speaker, there is no doubt that the physical, emotional and sexual violence against women and children continues to escalate at an alarming rate.

No one is born with violence running through their DNA.

We are born into a world that has become besieged by violence that we see within our families and our communities.
And there is no magic wand available to the state to stop this scourge either.

We have to do it ourselves.

All of us as individuals in our organisations and workplaces and as a society.

How do we do it?

The first step is diagnosis.

We must acknowledge that we are dealing with a pandemic that never sleeps 365 days per year.
We cannot condense our response into 16 days of activism and hope it UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 34 will have an effect for the rest of the year.

Sixteen days of activism is not a vaccine.

The second step revolves around ownership.

A plague of gender- based violence is brewed in our homes and in our attitudes towards each other and what our children learn from us.

We are teaching them early to disrespect girls.


Every single South African has a responsibility to question our structures and practices at home contributing to poisoning the minds of our children, specifically our boys.

It is an uncomfortable question.

We can’t hide behind our cultures or traditions.

If we continue raising our boys with the same set of values, our girls and women will continue to suffer.
We need to break this cycle and treat both our girls and boys to respect one other and value each other as equal to birth a new way of gender relations.

The first step is where the state comes in – whether it is through policing, criminal justice, education and social development functions.

Good’s proposals is that we really find the role of police and police stations.
They should become hubs of compassion and support, prioritising safety and security while ensuring that perpetrators get the message that if they cross the line, they are going to get caught.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 35 Good wants to thank all the NGOs that deals with gender-based violence on a daily basis.

Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Ms J S MANANISO: Thank you Deputy Speaker.


Let me start by sending a message of condolences to the families of those who have lost their children in spaces where we believe it’s spaces of development which are schools.

Sesotho: Ke re, le robaleng ka leqeba le sa tsweng madi.

Re kopa hore bana ba lona ba robale ka kgotso.

English: I don’t want to name them because we understand that gender based violence is a pandemic.
Chief Whip, we might not know of other children hence I’m saying that we are sending our message to everybody who has felt this heat, these deep barbaric actions of GBVF, gender based violence and fermicide.

Deputy Speaker, allow me to speak to fellow South Africans as well as fellow members of this Parliament.
When the President was speaking in the Sixth Parliament said all of us must be activist and understanding that activism is about activities, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 36 we could have come here and told the country that as Members of Parliament this is what we are doing in our constituency.
However, because we have resolved these debates to politicising them, shifting the blame and playing the blame game and so forth, we are coming here and we want to ask ourselves again and say what and why?

We know that GBVF is a pandemic and a societal issue.

Hon members, I want to congratulate all the young women who have ascended into positions of leadership more especially in the locals, I would like to say to them, let our people not be victims of GBVF while we have the NSP that is in place.
They must make sure that they implement it and ensure that district model works for them and their people.

I would also like to congratulate hon Gwarube.

I think your position in this responsibility is a just in time position because we know of what happened in Harstrat in Toekomsrus.

We are celebrating 16 days of activism to say that it’s still GBVF even when it’s male to male.

GBV must fall.
GBV must fall.

Chief Whip, allow me to introduce to the world the activist, optometrist, Dr Motsepe whom I met while I was doing my UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 37 constituency work in Mohlakeng.

He pledged to give people with albinism more than 30 spectacles.

This really shows that indeed when the President speaks about social impact and social compact, he speaks about it and others will listen as good citizens and others will be ignorant.
This man has proved that everybody can take part in social transformation.

We have 30 PWAs, people with albinism, that we have given advance spectacles and all of us in this House would know that spectacles for people with albinism is not luxury but privilege.

This man has proven that we can all do our part in our spaces as professionals, Members of Parliament and as communities.

As the ANC we always emphasize that creating safer communities, healthy and stable cities is our responsibility.
I heard other members asking why and what.

I believe that hon Zulu could have answered them.

Hon President once said in his speech, I quote: “It is not enough to intervene only once perpetrators have entered the criminal justice system.

We have to prevent gender based violence before it happens.” UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 38 So, it is our responsibility.
As government we have a duty and responsibility to devote the necessary resources to combat crimes of gender based violence.

I would also like to acknowledge the programmes that have been developed and implemented by the ANC Women’s League.

Till to date we have actually seen them disrupting the national, social and gender oppression through their uManyano and other programmes.
Hon members, for us to deal with GBV as a society we need to back to basics where individuals, groups and organisations understand that activism does not have age, race, class, colour and gender.

We believe that everyone must enjoy their human rights as stipulated in our Constitution Chapter 2, Bill of Rights.

Civil society are enablers in terms of ensuring that our citizens of the country become benefactors, beneficiaries and patriotism is the order of the day.
In all those who are proudly South African as we note that this year’s 16 days of activism theme is “moving from awareness to accountability.” UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 39 Now, my answer is with regard to accountability.
Civil society has a role to play in terms in terms of influencing, promoting, empowering, monitoring and evaluate if all structures, systems and resources that are in place are adequate are adequate and efficient to respond to our challenges as the country.

Accountability can only come if we all collectively agree that we have a role to play in ensuring that elders, men and women, youth, people with disabilities, people with albinism, LGBTQI plus society and children’s lives matters.
As parliamentarians and society at large, it is our role to reconstruct our country and build the South Africa that is free from all forms of injustices.

Not that we always do it in this August House, playing politics as usual, that’s what we do and I hope then fellow South Africans are starting to say what is it that you are going to do as a collective in one voice and in one message in this House?

I would like to say to you hon members, these 16 days of activism are 16 days of action.
We have seen that we have problems and loopholes in our institutions, we must go and ask them why there’s no sexual harassment in the institution, why do we have victims in our streets, why do we still have DNA, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 40 deoxyribonucleic acid backlogs and why do we have institutions where these institutions have been changed to be crime scenes where anybody would die at any given time.

It is our responsibility as a society.

I thank you.
I thank you.

Mr C H M SIBISI: [Inaudible.]

The issue of gender based violence against women and children in vulnerable minority groups[Inaudible.]

The issue with this debate is that we do every year and still cases of violence against women and children surging up.

It is called a pandemic of its own.

This pandemic must be seen as human rights issue, it’ a pandemic and what do government do to pandemics?

They act swiftly to curb it before many more lives are taken.
We call upon government to do more but this is not a matter of priority of this government hence policies and legislations that should be addressing this issue have been long in the making.

A recently study reviewed that GBV caused the country more than R28 billion annually and this amounts to 1% of the GDP, gross domestic product, but the cost of GBVF is far greater than any number that can be suggested.
Survivors of GBV are vulnerable in a number of ways, financial insecure, more UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 41 likely to be absent from work, often unable to achieve upward professional mobility which means there is numerous direct personal cost to GBV that are seldom recognised.
In the recent release crime statistics of SAPS, SA Police Service, more than 9 500 women were raped between July and September 2021 while 13 000 cases of assault on women were reported in the same period.

Every year for 16 days of activism we highlight gender based violence and renew calls to eradicate all its forms but in the 23 years since South Africa joined the 16 days of activism campaign, what has really changed?

The only thing we have is the national strategic plan on GBVF.
We can be absolutely certain that very few South Africans even know about it.

The NSP, National Strategic Plan, on GBVF proposes steps and measures that government as collective will take to eradicate GBVF in South Africa but yet we know nothing of its implementation.

We call on government to start recognising this as a serious matter which needs serious and expedite interventions.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 42 The changes that government often speaks about do not translate to the realities of our people.

We also encourage all stakeholders to come on board and stand together to fight the export of GBVF in societies.

Businesses also need to step up because they often set the tone for what is accepted in society.

It has the responsibility to declare a zero tolerance approach for GBV in all forms.
There is no easy way to eradicate GBV but it is important to strengthen existing interventions.

Lastly, we call on our men to shun and shame each other on this atrocious crime.

It is our responsibility as men to protect our women and children therefore, protecting the future of this country.

Let us all fight to not remember there’s a nation that continues to save these women children.

I thank you Deputy Speaker.

Mr N E DLAMINI: Point of order Chair?

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I can’t hear you sir.


Can you take off your mask a little bit and put it back on immediately afterwards.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 43 Mr N E DLAMINI: Thank you very much hon Deputy Speaker.

We are all in trouble in this House.

There’s a member who for the last 45 minutes has not been wearing her mask.

Oh there she puts it back on.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.


No, no, no, hon members, do put on yours masks unless you are eating and you can’t eat in the House Mr N E DLAMINI: I’m referring to that member.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, do put on your masks.

Don’t try and defend people, you shouldn’t be defending people.

No, can you just keep quiet and leave this matter.

It’s none of your business in the first place.

That man is acting properly as hon member here.


We begin every day with a request that you wear your mask consistently.

You can’t be defending that on any political or imaginary grounds.

Please, no!

Hon Jafta go ahead.

Mr S M JAFTA: Thank you, Deputy Speaker ...

[Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Jafta, we can’t hear you, ntate.

Your reception is very ...

[Inaudible.]

Hon members, don’t deal UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 44 with hon Jafta.

I’m here.
I’m here.

Hon Jafta, we truly can’t hear you.

It’s difficult to hear you.

Try something to sort out your reception.

Mr S M JAFTA: {Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Chief Whip ... IsiZulu: ... uyabona ukuthi le simo ...

[Akuzwakali.]

... wonke umuntu usho noma yini ayithandayo nje [Uhleko.]

English: Hon Jafta, things are bad.

I’m afraid I’ll have to skip you.

No, we can’t hear you.

It’s completely difficult to hear you.

Let’s proceed.

Hon Madisha, please take the floor.

We apologise, hon Jafta.


We know that area you are talking from.

I’m being presumptuous now.

I don’t even know where he’s speaking from.

However, this often happens with the reception.

So let’s not do that.

Go ahead.

Mr W M MADISHA: Thank you.


For as long as South Africans are forced to endure the present high levels of poverty and unemployment, and for as long as the present ruling class UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 45 continues to fail to implement what it purposed to be the positives that will improve the lives of South Africans, this debate shall take us nowhere.

This is a debate that has been brought to this House 27 times in the past 27 years.
Check even what the Constitution says.

Although South Africans have and still continue to pray for improvements, those who purport to be true leaders of South Africa have relegated those prayers to the second fiddle.

Recent empirical evidence has proven that South Africa is in the top league of joblessness and poverty in the whole world.

It has further proven that those who occupy the realm are the women and young people in South Africa.
Millions of women don’t work but are forced to take care of their children, buy them food and clothes, and pay their school fees, albeit that government claims the antithesis, namely free quality education.

Hence, like I said last year and before of course, women end up working at night on the streets, wearing miniskirts.

The rich, even from this House, employ women from beyond the borders of South Africa so that they can be exploited.

In many instances women get killed, as has been reported.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 46 What does this government then do?

It talks about equality but it actually enlarges the borders of inequality.

More than 74,5% of young people who are qualified and who have degrees don’t work.

Although we raise this point every year, this government does nothing except to continuously claim that there is improvement.

I want to put these particular questions forward.


After these debates, which happen every year, what has this department actually done to improve the lives of women, children and the youth?

To President Ramaphosa I want to ask, is this department really necessary or is it just being used as a campaigning tool with which the present rulers paint a picture that says they love South Africans, the women and children?
I want to say that here we are faced with a momentous challenge and we will not go anywhere, hon Deputy Speaker.

Changes have got to be made.

Sesotho: MOTLATSI WA SEPIKARA: Mohlomphehi ntate Madisha, e fedile nako ya hao.

English: UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 47 Hon S G N Mbatha?

An HON MEMBER: Malibongwe!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Huh uh!

Hon Tshabalala ... IsiZulu: ... musa ukuyenza le nto.

Ungaphindi uyenze, ayenziwa.


Sesotho: Ke mang lebitso la hae motho eo o buang ka ena?

English: Sorry?

No, not Madisha.

Sesotho: Ke batla lebitso la motho, nke se mmitse...

[Inaudible.]

IsiZulu: ... khandamhlophe, ngiyisho kanjani into enjalo.

Sesotho: Ke mang?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 48 English: No, no, no!

Hon member, please keep the mask on.

I know it’s uncomfortable but let’s keep it on.

Alright, go ahead, hon Mbatha.


Ms S G N MBATHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, my apologies, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers and hon members, I greet you all.

Let me first raise the issue that was raised before.

The issue of the ANC supporting the mayor of the Western Cape, in the rape case.

We have distanced ourselves as the ANC.

We are not supporting that mayor.

The second thing is that gender-based violence, gbv, is the role of all of us, as the community.
If we don’t hold our hands together, we won’t be able to reach our objectives, to clean the issue of gbv.

But, let me continue with my speech.

As we are in the middle of the 16 Days of Activism of No Violence against Women and Children Campaign, we must take a moment to reflect on our roles, it’s very important.
As public representatives of the people, and as members of communities we must all become activists and use the platforms we have to promote a culture and activism in our constituencies in order to mobilise millions of South Africans to fight gender-based violence and UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 49 violence against children and the vulnerable members of our society.
We have acknowledged previous debates in this House and in other forums that the scourge, gender-based violence is intolerable.

Through our words, we have denounced the people that abuse women, as I have indicated before, children and vulnerable persons, but the violence does not seem to be abating.

How should we understand this?

How do we explain the fact that our powerful words and condemnations have not had much impact in terms of changing behaviour?
My explanation is that: “Evil prevails when the good do nothing”.

The historical mission of the ANC has always been to achieve political and socioeconomic transformation and ending all forms of oppression including, gender oppression.

Our strategic objective is to create a society in which all our people live without fear of violence and harm.
The ANC in government has pioneered the rights of women, youth, persons with disabilities and members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex, asexual or ally, LGBTQIA+ community.

Government, working together with social UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 50 partners has been driving the implementation of the National Strategic Plan on gender-based violence and femicide.
In conjunction, government has intensified women empowerment programmes and mainstreaming of the youth into the economy.

In spite of government’s best efforts, the COVID-19 pandemic has wreaked havoc to the global and the domestic economy.

The unemployment rate has surged to a dramatic 34,9%, with black women facing a staggering 41% of unemployment.

These statistics imply an increased vulnerability of women to gender-based violence, sexual violence as inequality in our country is widening.
Statistically, most rape incidents take place in the home, and that’s where we need to work together as the community.

These statistics include the rape of young adolescent girls, many of whom fell pregnant during the various stages of the national lockdown.

The lack of access to reproductive health care, such as contraceptives was also a contributing factor.
Millions of young women did not have access to proper reproductive healthcare because of the coronavirus pandemic, not that the ANC didn’t supply, it was due to the pandemic.

The most disadvantaged young girls and women, have endured the greatest impact of the struggling economy.

It is thus imperative to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 51 ensure that government and social partners continue to create youth and women empowerment programmes to mitigate these disparities.
As activists and as leaders in our constituencies, we must support campaigns to protect our children, report statutory rape cases that occur in our family.

We must do our best to support schools and other institutions to reduce the prevalence of teenage pregnancy as it hinders the progress of the girl child.
I just want hint on an example that, when the COVID-19 started, the ANC was in the forefront working with the schools – on the issue of supporting the schools, on issue of gbv and other issues, including the agricultural issues.

And also supplying the personal protective equipment, ppe, which is the sanitisers and the masks in schools.

I am here to confess that in Tshwane, more than 80 schools were supported in partnership with Bonitas – where all of them were supported.
Including the educators who were trained free of charge, on COVID-19, on how to deal with it.

Noting the levels of unemployment in this country, all spheres of government must intensify efforts to support youth owned businesses through programmes such as the Youth Challenge Fund.
We must increase funding for programmes that stimulate UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 52 the establishment and growth of youth owned businesses and to promote digital skills to foster job creation, which is very important and is being done by our government at moment.

Understanding the impact of COVID-19 has had on the economy as a whole, especially the townships and rural economies, many women have become more dependent on their male partners.
We welcome the support through programmes such as the Township and Rural Entrepreneurship...

[Interjection.]

... thank you.

Mr M NYHONTSO: Deputy Speaker, gender-based violence should be declared a national disaster.

Kwame Nkrumah once said: If you want to understand any nation, you should look at its women.

Womanhood must be respected because they are the mothers of the nation.
They truly liberated people would have their women and children enjoying life in abundance and becoming the envy of the world, but not in our beloved country.

The status of women and children in South Africa with regards to gender-based violence is a horror story.

Especially when we consider the brutality meted out to young women by their UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 53 spouses, who now resort to the dismemberment of the body parts, keep them in refrigerators.
And at times, bury them in shallow graves.

This is no longer an ...

[Inaudible.]

... it is an increasing phenomenon.

There’s a need for national summit, which must take drastic steps to end escalating gender-based violence.

We move that gender-based violence be declared a national disaster.

The numbers of incidents are increasing rather than going down.

Despite the fact that awareness programmes are spread almost to all the communities.
The brazen acts of wife beating, sexual molestation of girls and grievous bodily harm on children are the highest ever.

The only way to prevent such horrific situation from continuing, is to uproot it from its origin in society.

So that the perpetrators should be ultimately be isolated and shunned.

The GBV must come to end sooner rather than later.

We cannot be portrayed as an unsafe country for women and children.
The criminal justice system on its own will not provide a conducive and protect the victims.

There are many chances in that process for perpetrators of GBV to go scotch free – that is if they have good and expensive lawyers.

And if they have UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 54 connections with corrupt police, some even misuse the traditional family meetings, using their money to suppress and silence the issues, by paying themselves out of trouble.
There are sexual molesters in every corner, wearing suits and getting false praises for being ‘nice people’.

They never get to see their day in court.

This is worrisome, justice must be seen to be done.

Clearly, the men have to carry the blame.

Each time a male is found to be a sexual perpetrator of gbv, it gives all other men a bad image.

It means when the world looks at South African male, they see a potential rapist, a serial killer and a wife beater, this has to stop.
It does not represent the majority of males, must come to an end.

And the best way, would be an increased awareness campaign, that includes civil society organizations, government agencies, political parties and everybody else concerned with transforming the image of South Africa as a horrific place into a united one Azania, the land of peace and plenty.

Thank you.

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Deputy Speaker, Parliament has failed women on maintenance, and this contributes to gender-based violence.
One of the first actions of our new Speaker to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 55 support the 16 Days of Activism Against Women and Children was to send my amendments to the Maintenance Act to the Parliamentary Legal Team.

The Speaker has already approved the budget to publish it in a government gazette for public comment on the last day of this campaign which is 10 December.

So, for Al Al Jama-ah it has been 16 days of action.
This is a fitting end to this campaign for Al Jama-ah but the work starts after 10 December.

The main amendment that I am proposing is that the pronouncement of a maintenance claim and that the applicant can apply for an emergency temporary maintenance order so that there is food on the table for the children immediately and not have to wait for up to seven years.

I invite hon members to read the other amendments on 10 December.
One of the legacies left behind by the previous Speaker was funding an Interim Muslim Marriages Bill that will assist Muslim wives to have a category on the home affairs system for Muslim marriages.

So, one day when one of the spouses die, the death certificate does not say never married, which is the worst indignity hon members can imagine.
The Minister of Home Affairs has also strike a blow for activism by taking steps to order hid department not to use UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 56 the entry ‘never married’ on the death certificate for people who believe they are married like Muslim women in a Nikah and many other women in religious marriages.

The President stated in Parliament that I must be patient and he has lived up to his promise.
There is another woman that phoned me today from Durban, a 45-year-old that is battling to see her six and four-year-old children since 2019.
Once again the President rose to the occasion and asked the CEO of Legal Aid to take the matter forward as this woman has contacted the following bodies without success: The Legal Aid pro bono centre for children, Women’s Legal Centre, Human Rights Commission, Commission for Gender Equality, Legal Resource Centre, the Department of Justice — nearly the whole world, hon Deputy Speaker.

Even the office of the President.


So, Al Jah-ma feels that there seems to be a systematic problem in that women can’t get assistance and that wise men abuse the system and this poor woman has to suffer.

How many women are there like that?

Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker and continue to raise your voice against gender-based violence.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 57 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much, hon Hendricks.
Although I am partial to the colour of the banner behind you, we don’t allow propaganda on banners because what will happen next is that unacceptable stuff will be displayed behind you.

We are not available for being dealt with that way.

Please, next time just change it.

If it is only the colour and no wording it would be okay and I wouldn’t protest against that.

Mr L MPHITHI: Deputy Speaker, this is an ode to the boy child – to the men – many of whom have had to grow up before their time.
Who have had to adopt dominant narratives of manhood when dad left.

Men and boys who never got to understand their feelings or even express them.

Mostly in a society that does not encourage boys to talk.

Growing up with fathers who were emotionally absent, strict, less tolerant and less reasonable.

Many of us have had to step up and be men at young ages.

But we need to understand that there were behaviours that we learned that were not okay.

Things that felt okay because they were always done.
We must interrogate what Makhosazana Kubheka states in her thesis, where she says that young men are caught between what their parents and societal role models have taught them to be, and the changes in the gender relations prevailing in South Africa today.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 58 The Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities has blue-ticked the most vulnerable in this country, particularly women.
The new dawn has not answered the calls for the crucial programmatic changes that centre the boy child.

There has been no meaningful reform or successes that this government can claim in the fight against gender-based violence.

The fact is that South Africa is the most dangerous country for women in this world.

This is a government that has shown itself to be out of touch with the realities of this world.

And so the most pertinent question remains, what has been done?
What claims will you make on this podium today?

When we ask the department what type of leadership has been provided in co-ordinating government departments, they will tell you about the new dawn.

When you ask them what successes have been made in the past three years, they will tell you that they attend webinars.

Perhaps the simplest action is to start fixing the department’s website so people can actually get access to information.

Hon Mananiso came up here and spoke about the delay in the DNA tests.
Unfortunately, she should be asking the ANC to be able to speak to that because they are in charge of that.

Just last UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 59 week, hon Andrew Whitfield my colleague, spoke about the crime stats that show that 58% of GBV dockets have not been finalised for more than a year.

The backlog in the DNA testing will delay justice for thousands of victims of violent crimes.
This erodes the principle of consequences for criminal behaviours and creates an enabling environment for violent criminals to thrive.

In this House we are more fortunate to worry about legislation while women and children unfortunately have to worry about whether they will survive tomorrow or not.

This government has indeed failed to uphold the rights of individuals, whether it be through the attainment of justice, security or safety.
Hon Mbatha came here and told us that the ANC has distanced itself from the convicted rapist in Kannaland.

The fact of the matter is that it is too late, you supported that mayor.

He became a mayor because you supported him.

So, you cannot distance yourself now and tell us that you have distanced yourself.
That is why colleagues, hon Sharif and hon Ngcobo travelled eight provinces in two months visiting support centres, Thuthuzela Care Centres, speaking to social workers, healthcare workers and doctors to understand the realities that they face on the ground.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 60 In the Free State, the Tshepong Victim Empowerment Centre we found files that were laying across the ground on the floor without security.

These are rape cases.


In eThekwini we found GBV cars donated by Germany gathering dust and not assisting victims in the deep rural areas of KwaZulu-Natal.

In Middleburg Mpumalanga we visited a women’s shelter that didn’t even have security at the gate.

And those women who were at that shelter had zero protection from the perpetrators they had tried to escape from.
In Limpopo we went to the Thuthuzela Centre where we found a lady whose face was slashed during a rape, and her only reliance was on a heavily understaffed and under resourced Thuthuzela Care Centre.

I raise these experiences today so that I can model what it feels like to put these frontline workers first.

What we need now is to provide rapid and comprehensive responses to all forms of violence against women.
We need to address the backlog of cases, the delays in DNA testing and the availability of rape test kits in police stations.

The justice system has a huge role to play in ensuring that all crimes against women and children attract harsher sentences.

Perhaps government can start with those basic things.
Activists on the ground are telling us that it is not enough UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 61 to have gender-based violence as a line item in an annual report, or having GBV as a rhetoric in speeches.

They want to know where is the money and the resources to keep them alive.

They don’t care anymore and they shouldn’t care about being respectful or palatable to us.
And so today the DA joins with those voices to remind this House that government continues to fail empowering and equip and to stack up the resources that are very much needed to support nongovernmental organisations, NGOs, community organisations, support groups, health workers, social workers because they have proven that they are obsolete.

They cannot do their job.


And this is why the DA wants to take this moment to remember all those we have lost during the gender-based violence pandemic, and we call upon all men to rise up, not only with their words but with their actions for 365 days of activism.

Thank you.

[Applause.]

Mr X NQOLA: Hon Deputy Speaker, allow me to ...

[Inaudible.]

... the views of hon Mananiso.


Political formations must refrain from playing political point scoring with gender-based violence, GBV for it is a crime against humanity.

You can use all forms of language like Mr Mphithi here but GBV requires all of us to unite and confront it head on.

Allow me Deputy Speaker, to declare cheap politicking with GBV unethical and therefore disingenuous.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 62 Deputy Speaker, as we conclude the debate on the internationally recognised 16 Days of Activism of No Violence against Women and Children, I wish to take this opportunity to pay respect to the women and children who have lost their lives through violence.

We convey our condolences to the family and friends of all those who had lost their lives to what our President has declared as a second pandemic.
In November, SAPS released crime statistics for the second quarter of 2921/2022.

The statistics revealed that an increase to conduct crime include rape and murder.

This is not only GBV but murder.

It is painful to know that so many men are responsible for such gruesome inhumane acts.

Behind those numbers are real people with real feelings and with families and friends.
If what you live to see our on the National Development Plan, NDP Vision 2030, outcomes 3 it says: A south Africa where all people are free and feel safe.

The status quo cannot exist.

Dismantling the system of patriarchy in all its manifestations to achieve gender equality is imperative if we are to tackle gender-based violence.
According to the Global Inequality Data Base, Africa UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 63 comes as one of the most unequal regions with the top-10 capturing half of national income.

The research shows that South Africa is the most unequal country of the region.

In 2019, the income share of total households is estimated at 65%.

The Covid-19 has made matters worse.

Unemployment has risen, poverty has widened and inequality has deepened.
Extreme inequality levels can be found among the nations which historically experienced colonisation and extreme forms of racial injustices, as in our case.

The persistence of inequality in third world countries is largely due to the lack of ownership reforms, the lack of means of production, the absence of social security and progressive taxation systems.

In any capitalist system whose twin is patriarchy, the power relations are largely skewed against women.
Even those who managed to succeed to the echelons of power are sometimes paid less than their counterparts.

The majority of women.

However, form a bulk of the unemployed or occupied the lowest ends of salary scale.

In 2014 still showed that there are 4,1% more unemployed women in South Africa than men.

Women get the brunt of poverty with 39,2% of women headed households, not having an employed household member.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 64 Nationally, 43% of children live with mothers only while only 1,3% are men parents.

The reasons for gender-based violence are many.

A significant factor however is that those who are excluded economically become vulnerable to abuse in a system where money is everything.

This enables the wealthy, dominates and controls those with less.
The high level of employed South African men is the contributory factor to the GBV as most men cannot provide for their families vent their anger on women and children.

This is not a justification for violence against women and children.

Gender empowerment is important for uprooting patriarchy and achieving gender inequality.

Providing women with economic security is to provide a good foundation from which the values emanating from the patriarchal system can be challenged.
Deputy Speaker, patriarchy in its nature promotes male privileges.

The attitudes and the expectations organised on these basis rank men above women, providing an upper structure that gives men uncontested authority.

It is an obsession with control at core value around which social life is organised.

Men maintain their privilege by controlling women and anyone who might threaten their position.
Women are subjugated and rated as inferior because UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 65 they are culturally defined as inferior.

Black women suffer triple oppression in terms of gender, race and class.

Cultural practises which undermine women and girls have no place in our country.

The oppression of women in the name of tradition cannot and should not exist.
We welcome the interventions by state institutions which progressively contribute to the promotion of gender equality.

We have seen the development of our jurisprudence in line with the Constitution as espoused in the famous case of Bhe and Others v Khayelitsha Magistrate and Others in the Constitutional Court, the majority invalidated the impugned statutory provisions on the grounds that they contravened the rights, quality and dignity.
It also held that the rule of male primogeniture was contrary to gender equality.

The rule of male primogeniture, Deputy Speaker is simply that in the ancient times the people who are entitled to the inheritance of the household are only the elderly men which is contrary to our stance on gender equality.

It is important that we continue making laws to correct the legacy of apartheid which dilapidates woman’s self- UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 66 actualisation.
If the economy is not growing, then gender gap is widening.

From a very young age, children must be taught in homes the importance of gender equality.

Gender stereotypes must be dismantled.

There should be shared responsibilities within the households.

Respecting one another must be taught in the households first.

We need to go to back to our roots of Ubuntu because it is there that the objectification of women will come to an end.

IsiXhosa: Kubalulekile ukuba sibuyele ebuntwini.


English: The fight against GBV is not a woman’s struggle only, also men must be committed in uprooting patriarchy and fighting gender- based violence.

It begins with me.
It begins with me.

I close the debate with the quote from the words of former President Thabo Mbeki: No government in South Africa could ever claim to present the will of the people if it fails to address the central task of emancipating the women in all elements and that includes the government we appreciate to lead.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 67 It should be stuck to us as men not to think that the gender- based violence is the struggle for women only.
We must fight against men who use their being men to perpetrate abuses and injustices against women of the country.

We must all of us stand up and fight GBV ...

[Inaudible.]

... that we have.

It starts with us as men to refrain, collect ourselves and fight going forward the GBV.

It is a second pandemic.

Amandla!!

[Applause.]

Ms J TSHABALA: Hon House Chairperson, on a point of order: I wanted to say that speech of hon Nqola was proper and he did very well.
It is very sound and that is the order that I am giving.

Well done.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.

That is not a point of order.

We do not do that.

Please do not do that.

Thank you, hon members and thank you for your contributions to this debate.

We hope that what you are saying is what you will practice.

Thank you very much.


CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ON 2020-21 ANNUAL REPORT OF DEPARTMENT OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING AND ENTITIES UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 68 There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, we know that there has been an agreement by all parties that there will be no declarations of vote on these budget reports, but we will allow all parties to indicate their objections if they wish to do so.

This will apply to all the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, that we will be dealing with.
Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting) CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ON PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE AND INNOVATION FOR 2020-21 FINANCIAL YEAR There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 69 Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting) CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, Economic Freedom Fighters and United Democratic Movement dissenting) The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, please.

Hon Iris, please just mute.

I think you didn’t see your icon.

CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HOME AFFAIRS There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 70 Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting) CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SPORTS, ARTS AND CULTURE There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting) CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 71 Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, Economic Freedom Fighters and United Democratic Movement dissenting) CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting) CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HUMAN SETTLEMENTS There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting) UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 72 CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, Economic Freedom Fighters and United Democratic Movement dissenting) CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF THE FINAL ACTS OF THE INTERNATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATION UNION, ITU, WORLD RADIO CONFERENCE 2019 IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION, 1996 Mr B M MANELI: Hon House Chairperson, hon members, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, committee supports staff, fellow South Africans.
In introducing this report for consideration by this august House I’m reminded that South Africans joined the global community in reflecting on 1st December 2021, the World Aids Day under the theme “End inequalities.

End Aids” as declared by the World Health Organisation, WHO.
May our daily actions between now and the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 73 next World Aids Day be that of an understanding that our response to socioeconomic conditions is central in defeating this scourge that has beset the world for decades.
Hon members, in line with section 34(1) of the Electronic Communications Act, ECA, Act 36 of 2005, the Minister of Communications and Digital Technologies represents the Republic of South Africa at international fora, including the ITU, in respect of international allocation, coordination and approval of spectrum plans applicable to be Republic in accordance with international treaties, multilateral and bilateral agreements entered into by the Republic.
Henceforth the Minister signed on behalf of the Republic the ITU World Conference 2019 World Radiocommunication Conference, WRC-19 Final Acts on 22 November 2019 in Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt, at the end of the World Radio Conference 2019.

WRC-19 reviewed and revised radio relations, the international treaty governing, the use of radio frequency spectrum and geostationary-satellite and the non-geostationary-satellite orbits as contained in the Final Acts.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 74 Hon Chairperson, the benefits for the Republic from the World Radiocommunication Conference 2019 are stated in the report, which includes the strategic outcome impacting on the South Africa’s national agenda, which is “Greater gender participation and empowerment of women”.
The national implications of ratification of the Final Acts are amongst others the following: Firstly, WRC-19 Final Acts in terms Radio Regulations came into force on the 1st January 2021.
Secondly, the Department of Communications and Digital Technologies and Independent Communications Authority of SA, ICASA, will update the 2018 National Radio Frequency Plan, NRFP, in line with the outcomes of the WRC-19 impacting on the Republic, while ensuring protection of security service spectrum, consider government current and planned use of spectrum in line with section 34 of the ECA.
Lastly, the outlined outcomes will be taken by the Department of Communications and Digital Technologies and ICASA as part of ongoing environmental awareness of spectrum management trends and spectrum outlook for the next few years.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 75 Furthermore, the Legal opinions from Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and the Office of the State Law Advisor respectively confirmed: Firstly, ratification not in conflict with domestic laws but will require amendments to the NRFP.

Secondly, International opinion states that the WRC-19 Final Acts are not in conflict with South Africa’s international obligations.
Hon members, the Portfolio Committee on Communications, having considered the Final Acts of the ITU World Radio Conference 2019 and the explanatory memorandum thereto, as referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, considers ratification of the WRC-19 Final Acts for approval.

This report is, therefore, presented to this House for consideration.

I thank you, House Chairperson.


Declarations of vote: Mr Z N MBHELE: House Chair, the World Radio Conference of the International Telecommunication Union is the crucial multilateral forum for the international allocation, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 76 coordination and approval of spectrum plans applicable to all member countries.
The international treaties on radio regulations such as the ones before the House today for consideration and approval, that was signed at the 2019 WRC Conference in Egypt, govern the use of radio frequency spectrum and satellite orbits supporting those operations; and these are all, largely, technical and uncontroversial in nature.
In brief, the outcomes and agreements of the radio regulations will have domestic implications in terms of requiring the updating of the 2018 national radio frequency plan, as mentioned by Chairperson Maneli, while ensuring protection of security service spectrum, primarily, as it concerns the police and defence forces as well as sensitive science services.
On the latter aspect, reference to the voyagers of our ships to the Antarctic base at the South Pole as well as radio astronomy stations like the Square Kilometre Array, SKA, in the Northern Cape bears significant mention.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 77 At this juncture, Chairperson, I must add the heart-sinking lament that a further domestic implication would have been in the array now of railway radio communication systems to meet the needs of a high speed railway environment, in particular for train-radio applications to improve radio traffic control, passenger safety and security for train operations.

However, the tragic state of our rail network and ...

[Inaudible.]
[Inaudible.]

... woodstock, under the mismanagement of Passenger Rail Agency of SA, PRASA, simply makes this a pipe dream.

Perhaps when the management authority for railway services is eventually devolved to competent provincial and local governments, this prospect may start to be realised.
As has been expressed by the new Cape Town Mayor, Geordin Hill-Lewis, and Premier, Allan Winde, the City of Cape Town and the Western Cape government are ready and eager to take over the joint running of passenger and freight rail in the Western Cape province so that we can optimise the economic growth development and job creation potential of this infrastructure asset.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 78 Under those circumstances then, for once, it will actually be a good thing for the proverbial lights at the end of the tunnel to be an oncoming train.

In terms of international implications, the radio regulations are notable for having opened up new orbit slots for broadcasting satellites, providing developing countries with the opportunity to regain access to spectrum orbit resources.
Chairperson, the importance of meticulous multilateral planning and coordination with respect to the shared use of low orbit near space satellite, cannot be overstated because we will only get one chance to get such a framework right.
Any mistakes or maverick deviations by public or private sector players from this regime risks the unfolding of a chaotic scenario where accidental satellite collisions create high speed debrief fields that trigger further cascade collisions which exacerbate the problem, ultimately creating an impossible shrapnel shell around our planets that render satellite operations vulnerable to shut down and makes extraplacental trips impossible.
And anyone who has watched the 2013 film, Gravity, starring Sandra Bullock and George Clooney, will know exactly what such a disaster can look like.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 79 For any country that seeks to keep up with international peers, as the 21st century proceeds a pace, there must a clear and laser sharp focus on facilitating reliable and high speed broadband Information Technology, IT, infrastructure to enable cloud computing, the internet of things and quite possibly, the proliferation of augmented reality, as the recent mess averse announcement has forecast.
We cannot be left behind and we must maximise the benefits of this brave new world through public-private partnerships.

Otherwise, we will find ourselves on the wrong side of a growing druidical divide, trapped behind a connectivity chasm.

I thank you, Chair.

[Applause.]

Mr V PAMBO: Chair, billions of people across the world depend on the radio communication to access information and make informed decisions about what is happening in their respective countries.
Here, in this country, radio still remains an invaluable source of information for millions of people.

The International Telecommunications Union, radio regulations that’s updated by the World Radio Conference in 2019, provides for a further strengthening of the ability of nations to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 80 provide frequency modulation that would enable ease of radio broadcasting.
An assenting to the Final Acts of the World Radio Conference, South Africa rightfully affirmed the country’s rights to put the interest of the nation first, in as far as development of frequency modulation is concerned.

The Government Gazette of March 2019, which outlines the regulations of frequency migration overview, is aligned to the Final Act of the World Radio Conference.
The regulations are in line with the Final Act of the World Radio Conference, and more particularly, commit to lowering the cost of frequency migration so that users do not suffer.

We support this report.

Thank you, Chair.

Ms Z MAJOZI: Thank you, hon House Chair.

South Africa’s participation in the International Telecommunications Union World Radio Conference in 2019, marked an important stage in the growth of the country’s telecommunication industry.
The whole of the International Telecommunications Union, ITU, in convening this conference over the years seeks to review and revise the global radio regulations in order to reflect the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 81 latest technological developments and respond to an ever changing market demand and service spectrum requirements.

The conference was held in 2019 and the arguments made were signed by 3 400 delegates from 165 members’ countries.
These agreements were compiled into a final Act of the Radio Regulation, an international treaty that governs the global use of radio frequency spectrum and satellite orbits.

South Africa was a signatory in this treaty.

Of importance in the conference were the additional spectrum allocations that were agreed on the international mobile telecommunications, including the information management technology, IMT, 2020, also known as 5G mobile.
The upside of these 5G technology is that it has allowed for faster internet speeds, increase capacity and reduced latency, improvements that are crucial and in video conferencing while 4G technologies have been associated with network legs of up to 15 milliseconds.

The use of 5G has reduced this to a one millisecond.

Despite these advances the IFP has been outspoken regarding these concerns around 5G specifically relating to the long term health effects.
We will continue to monitor international peer reviewed research and respond accordingly.

Further, the upgrade of the International Telecommunications Union, ITU, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 82 conference clearly prepared South Africa for working remotely during the COVID-19 pandemic.

One of the outcomes of the conference was the revision of regulatory provision to accommodate indoor and outdoor usage of Wi-Fi network.
The COVID-19 restrictions that have been in effect since March 2020, have been a rise in the number of people working from home.

The conference, therefore, assisted this transition.

The COVID-19 pandemic also exposed the painful realities of the digital divide.

South Africa has serious gaps in national coverage, especially in the last mile, access for rural areas and small towns.

The pandemic also exposed the high cost of accessing the internet in our country.
South Africa is still to bridge the digital divide between rural areas and urban areas.

However, the introduction of 5G technology has also created a platform for South Africa in rural areas to access the internet more easily.

The report from the World Bank suggests that the use of sophisticated digital technologies can create more and better jobs for people with low incomes and low skills thereby helping in the fight against unemployment and poverty.

Sadly, for South Africa ... [Time expired.]

...


[Inaudible.]

... in UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 83 fighting unemployment and poverty.

The IFP support the Report.

Thank you, hon Chairperson.

Mr W W WESSELS: Thank you, Chairperson.

The Freedom Front plus is in support of the Report.

Mr S N SWART: Thank you, House Chair.

I’ve left my camera off just because of connection issues.
The 2019 World Radio Telecommunication Conference finally brings together the resolutions and recommendations undertaken by the conference of the International Telecommunications Union.

This is an important United Nations member state body that reviews and revises international radio spectrum requirements.
While the majority of global standards confirmed by the conference have come into effect in January 2021, South Africa regrettably remains an outliner when it comes to the repeated delays in its digital migration and endless debauch ...

[Inaudible.]

... surrounding the issuing of spectrum.

Now, the critical auction of the permanent radio spectrum remains crippled by litigation and disruption.
When the ACDP trusted the parties involved in this litigation would come to an end, South Africans had to wait for ten years for this to be completed and it cannot be held up by an endless UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 84 litigation.

This is highly regrettable.

However, having said that, the ACDP supports this Report and supports the ...

[Inaudible.]

... to be brought into action.

I thank you.


Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chair, the United Democratic Movement supports the Report.

Thank you very much.

Ms T L MARAWU: Thank you very much, Chairperson.

The ATM supports the Report.

Mr W M MADISHA: Thank you, Chair.

We support.

Mr T T GUMBU: Thank you, House Chair and hon members.
The information and communications technology, ICT, sector has a significant and growing impact on the GDP and is part of the macroeconomic consideration as it provides opportunities for South Africa to get out of the current economic challenges.

It is against this background that the ANC remains committed to the program of increasing the rollout of broadband infrastructure across the country, more so, in the rural part of our land.

To date, 970 government sites have been connected.


Mario Maniewicz, the director of the International Telecommunication UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 85 Union, ITU, radio communication video says the telecommunications are key enabler to achieve the sustainable development goals and to build a world where social, economic, environmental and technological development is sustainable and available for everyone and everywhere.
Technologies such as mobile communications, the internet of things, IoT, connected cars and cities, the Fourth Industrial Revolution and artificial intelligence all depends on the telecommunication network services and applications, and increasingly they rely on recommendations to provide the basis for connectivity.
As part of the presidential employment stimulus initiative, the department in collaboration with the presidency, submitted a bid for funding to support digital access for low-income households and stimulate job creation and economic growth through household broadband connectivity and public Wi-Fi access.

This project will be rolled out in both the townships and rural areas.
Hon members, today we Table before this House, the request for approval of the final Act of the International Telecommunication Union, ITU, World Radio Conference 2019, in accordance with Section 23(2) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 86 The ratification of the final Act as amended will serve to benefit and protect the Republic of South Africa during international co-ordination of radio frequency spectrum usage, co-ordination of satellite deployment to mitigate interference with national services, co-ordination and approval of any regional radio frequency spectrum place.
This will also ensure that the revised radio regulations the international treaty governing the use of the radio frequency spectrum and the geostationary satellite and nonegeostationary satellite orbits are approved by the resolution and that those radio regulation impacting South Africa are updated in national radio frequency plan.
The ratification of the final Act includes the following: The Department of Communication and Digital Technologies and the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, ICASA, to update the 2018 national radio frequency plan with the outcomes of the World Radio Conference 19 impacting on the Republic while ensuring protection of security service spectrum, to consider government current and planned use of spectrum in line with section 34 of the Electronic Communication Act, the outline outcomes will be taken by the Department of Communication and Digital Technologies and the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 87 as part of the ongoing environmental awareness or spectrum management trends and spectrum outlook for the next few years, Parliament to consider ratification of the final Act and thus radio regulation impacting on South Africa be updated in the revised National Radio Frequency Plan, NRFP, in order to keep the plan current and the Minister to approve the revised National Radio Frequency Plan, NRFP, in accordance with section 34(2) of the Electronic Communication Act.
The ANC welcomes the resolutions that were taken in the conference which includes the following: Identifying new frequencies for 5G applications, World Radio Conference 2019 established conditions to protect existing services from receiving harmful interference from future mobile handsets and base stations.
Of great importance was the need and priority given to protecting sensitive services, particularly the earth exploration satellites services passive bands where measurements are made that are then used in weather predictions models.

The World Radio Conference ...

[Inaudible.]

... agreed on compatibility between the earth exploration satellite services and the relevant active services is intended to manage harmful interference that would make weather predictions increasingly less accurate.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 88 The International Telecommunication Union, ITU, member states agree to identify additional radio frequency thus for high altitude platform stations high energy physics, Heps, systems.

The agreements reached at World Radio Conference 2019 helped pave the way to connect more of the world’s people to the benefits of today’s digital economy, particularly in underserved communities and in rural and remote areas.
A new resolution passed at World Radio Conference also emphasised that the current technology such as high energy physics, HEPs, can be used to deliver broadband application for broadband connectivity and disaster recovery communication with minimal ground network infrastructure.

This can potentially enable lower cost connectivity and faster deployment.
In conclusion, in order to ensure that more telecom operators gain access to high demand spectrum, the ANC welcomes the decision by the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, to create a policy which requires that a portion of unallocated high demand spectrum be assigned to the wireless open access network, WOAN.
The Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, has set aside radio frequency spectrum within the 700 megahertz, 600 megahertz and 500 megahertz spectrum band for wireless open access network.

The wireless open access network invitation to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 89 apply provide for radio frequency spectrum license to be issued for wireless open access network which would be valid for a period of 20 years.
It will be renewable annually on payment of prescribed license fees.

The ANC support this Report.

I thank you, Chairperson.

Tshivenda: Ndo livhuwa.

The Final Acts of the ITU World Radio Conference 2019 accordingly approved.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON FIRST AND SECOND QUARTER PERFORMANCE OF 2020-21 FINANCIAL YEAR FOR BUDGET VOTE 12: STATISTICS SA Mr T H JAMES: Thank you, hon House Chair.
We assessed or reviewed performance information of Statistics SA, Stats SA.

It was discovered that Stats SA continues to struggle, as a result of historic budget shortfall, high vacancy rate and high turnover rate.

However, we were pleased about the additional R45 million for compensation of employees, which will assist the department to avoid to carry negative audit UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 90 outcomes.
We are of the view that, additional allocation will address high turnover and high vacancy rate.

The committee has mandated both the Minister of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and the Minister of Finance, to address the budget shortfall, which might have negative effect on the quality of statistics.

Hon members, as we are all aware that in less than 100 days from today, Statistics SA will undertake a population and housing census, which is Census 2022, from 2 February next year.
This will be the fourth population count since 1994.

We are delighted that the budget for Census 2022, has been reinfenced to deliver a successful project.

I would like to encourage Members of this House to encourage citizens to fully participate in Census 2022.

As the ANC, we support this Budget Report of Statistics SA.

Thank you.

Setswana: Rre M S MALATSI: Ke a leboga, Modulasetilo.

English: There is no doubt that Stats SA is one of the king jewels of excellence in this Administration.
It continues to function well, deliver its key programmes without the corruption and UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 91 leadership instability that cripple many of this government’s entities.

Given that its main purpose is to produce reliable statistical information that guides government policy interventions, one would think that the ANC government will do everything in its powers to secure sustainable funding.
Yet, the ANC government continues to deny Stats SA the funds it so desperately needs to be able to consistently produce the volume of statistical reports that it is mandated to.

It now only produces over 250 surveys annually that provide evidence-based reports on unemployment, labour, trade, and many other critical socioeconomic trends that reflect accurate developments in different sectors of our country.
These reports are widely used by the private sector, academics and even non-governmental organisations, NGOs, to influence their policy positions.

But perhaps more worrying for the ANC government, is that these reports often expose the government’s embarrassing performance in failing to fight poverty and to create the policy environment for job creation to prosper.
Nothing illustrates this more than the recent Quarterly Labour Force Survey which shows that the official unemployment rate sits at 34,9%, while youth unemployment is at 66,5%.

These UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 92 aren’t just numbers; they represent the abandoned dreams of young people who have given up on ever finding a job.
Hon members, the Stats SA budget will be cut by over R766 million over the next three financial years, due to this Administration’s mismanagement of the fiscus.

These budget cut means that Stats SA will now be forced to discontinue some of the periodic reports because it can’t afford to do them.

Just last year, it was once again forced to abandon the Income and Expenditure Survey as a direct result of budget cuts.

These are the type of statistical reports that make the ANC government uneasy.
It explains to why the government has no political will to provide Stats SA with the funds it needs to conduct all these reports, because they fear that they will paint a negative picture about the government’s service delivery failures.

Every former Minister in the Presidency previously committed to persuade the National Treasury to allocate more money to Stats SA.

We sound like a stuck record in the portfolio committee whereby in each and every meeting we had to plead for these.
As a credible institution, that does such an important work, it is key that it always has all the resources that it has.

What we don’t need is yet another bag of empty promises.

To UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 93 quote the Statistician-General, “we can’t live on promise.” This entity can survive on getting funding so that it delivers on its mandate.
So, to my colleagues on the right, if you truly care about the future of the Stats SA and the report it produces, please fund it properly.

Setswana: Ke a leboga, Modulasetilo.

Ms R N KOMANE: Good afternoon colleagues and the South Africans.

Chairperson, Statistics SA remain one of the very few institutions in a state that is filled with little blemishes.

We know now that, it was impossible to conduct census as a result of COVID-19 pandemic.
Despite any attempts to prepare for census this year, the fourth wave will make it impossible for the entity to conduct the much needed population census.

However, what is clear from the report is that, the entity has been progressively underfunded over a period of time, and that this underfunding will certainly have an impact on the ability of the Stats SA to provide the country with the key demographics and economic details to measure our progress and regression as a nation.
The narrow promise in which the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 94 National Treasury works, which believes that the country can progress through austerity measures, is exposed for the fraud, that it is when institutions such as the Stats SA are defunded.

If we hinder the ability of this institution to perform its functions, how are we going to know if we are making progress or not?
Correct, up to date, statistics on the true state of the nation are needed to guide the policy decisions.

Chairperson, to this end, we need a fully funded and functional Stats SA.

We are going to support this report.

Thank you very much.

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Thank you, hon Chairperson and hon members, we are at a stage in which the world is driven by data.

To promptly and appropriately respond to any situation, we need access to information, in statistical format.
It is information that enables various government departments and the private sector to respond to new threats and to take advantage of opportunities.

This is where Statistics SA, Stats SA, comes in.

Stats SA’s main focus is the information that is collected by government departments during their fulfilment of their constitutional mandates and implementation of their policies.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 95 As such, the financial performance of Stats SA is vital, as it gives us insight into the financial health of the one entity that is responsible for giving us information.

However, we find ourselves facing disappointment, due to the performance of Stats SA in the period under review.

By now, I’m sure we are all in agreement that COVID-19 is the main reason for non- performance in government departments.
It has informed us in its report that the work it conducts requires field data, which requires travelling and other logistical arrangements.

These have not been possible due to the pandemic.

However, this does not mean that we condone other issues within Stats SA.

The Report shows a high vacancy rate within Stats SA, which has been attributed to budget cuts and lack of opportunities to progress within Stats SA.
Most competitive people are looking for career advancement, and will not stick around when they feel that they have hit a brick wall in their careers.

Stats SA must look into this critically and find a solution.

The IFP joins the rest of this committee in encouraging Stats SA to formulate a plan and achieve the delayed quarterly targets before the end of the present financial year.
We are also hoping that in our next engagement with Stats SA, we UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 96 would have been provided with detailed spending reports on the procurement of personal protective equipments, PPEs, for employees by Stats SA.

Hon Chairperson, the IFP supports the adoption and approval of the first and second quarter performance reports for the 2020-21 financial year, for Budget Vote 12, Stats SA.

I thank you.
I thank you.

Mr W W WESSELS: Hon House Chair, the FF Plus supports the report.

Mr S N SWART: House Chair, Statistics SA published a report in June of this year on the top ten leading causes of mortality in South Africa.

This is based on death notification forms and maintained by the Department of Home Affairs.

Now, it is interesting that this report does not include deaths due to COVID-19 as these will be published at a later stage.
The data shows that mortality levels are declining, but still in response to the ACDP’s question at the end of last year, all indications are that, there are still more than 1 000 people dying per day of natural causes in South Africa which include according to this report by Statistics SA tuberculosis, diabetes, cerebral diseases, HIV disease, hypertension, influenza, pneumonia and other diseases.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 97 The ACDP were not attracted from the seriousness of COVID-19, also welcomes this report and welcomes the what Deputy President Mabuza said about HIV/Aids and the need to also focus on combatting HIV/Aids particularly on the recent World Aids day.

House Chair, the ACDP takes note of this report and also takes note of the decrease in budget for Statistics SA that obviously places Statistics SA under very onerous burden.
However, we will support this report but would encourage finances to ensure that Statistics SA has sufficient funding due to the very important role that they play particularly when it comes to the reports regarding mortality rates, excess deaths in South Africa at this time of the COVID-19 pandemic as well, as the other pandemics facing the nation, such as HIV/Aids.

I thank you.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: The UDM supports the report Chair.

Thank you.

Ms T L MARAWU: Chairperson, the ATM supports the report.
Thank you.

Mr C H M SIBISI: Thank you Chair.

Statistics SA is one of the important entities in the country and one of the few entities UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 98 of government that execute its mandate free from corruption, poor performance and poor governance.

The entity achieved 93% of its targets as set out in the annual performance plan whilst under tremendous and human resource constraints.

This is commendable.


There are very few government entities that can report such positive performance.

Therefore, we welcome the additional R49,4 million allocated to Statistics SA.

We do so with an open heart because we know that it will be utilised for what it is intended for.

The NFP welcomes the report of the portfolio committee and supports its recommendations to the entity.

Thank you House Chair.

Sepedi: Mna W M MADISHA: Sefepisegolo sa ANC se tlile sa nthapeletṧa.

[Disego.]
[Disego.]

Bjale, ke kwana naye le go tṧe di ṧetṧego kamoka ga tṧona.

[Disego.]

Ke a leboga.

Ms M T KIBI: Thank you House Chair.

The ANC supports Vote 12 of Statistics SA.

It goes without mention that COVID-19 has impacted on the operation of all departments including Statistics SA.
However, Statistics SA remained resilient in the provision of information, reliable and quality statistics such as the labour force statistics, unemployment and many UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 99 significant statistics that provide a trajectory of how our policies as government impact in our economy, the lives of our people and society.
As a country, we are largely dependent on the entity to provide us with statistical information on how COVID-19 has impacted the economy.

We commend the entity for releasing three new releases on the business impact survey on COVID-19 and essential products consumer price index.

The three new online surveys mean measuring the impact of COVID-19 on society dealt with health behaviour, and perceptions, employment, income, hunger, education, mobility, migration and time use.
Understanding that the entity had delayed targets for the first and second quarter, we urge the Statistics SA to ensure that all its targets will be achieved for the financial year.

However, as the ANC we were rather concerned about the high vacancy rate and the representation of women in high Senior Management Service, SMS positions and persons with disabilities in other departments.
We have always stressed for the presentation on women and persons with disabilities in SMS positions to breach the inequality gap.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 100 We applaud the entity for improving in the paying of invoices within the set timeframe of 30 days, and appreciate the progress that had been made thus far of the legislation reform.
We were pleased to hear that, the entity was preparing for Census 2021 By developing and testing multimode data collection for Census 2021 pilot in that it conducted census 2021 trial project between August and September.

Understanding the significance of population count and ensuring that everyone gets counted, in is one of the most important responsibility that the entity has.
Statistics SA utilised digital platforms and technologies.to ensure that they commenced with data collection for other household surveys using computer assisted telephone interview, CATI due to COVID-19 pandemic.

However, we were rather concerned with the collection of data in deep remote areas as the majority of our people did not have access to internet and technologically improved digital devices.
Although we still commend the entity for its global and international engagements even during the mist of the pandemic, particularly the engagement with organisations such as the Commission for Gender Equality to develop the gender- based violence statistics, as we all know that gender-based violence is a second pandemic that our nation continues to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 101 battle with.
With the release of such information, that will be able to intensify the fight against gender-based violence in our country.

Statistics SA produces credible statistics and in the process of modernising its operational model, strengthening statistical reform and conducting the 2021 National Population Census.
For an entity like Statistics SA to maintain its standard and lead in the production of statistics in line with an internationally recognised standard, requires a budget that is not restrictive for the entity to fulfil its mandate.

There is a need to increase the funding for Statistics SA if we are to continue to rely on the entity for the production of statistics so that, it can continue providing the nation with an updated and efficient statistical information.
The statistics produced by the entity informs us of our socioeconomic dynamics in which the public sector, private sector, tertiary institutions, members of the public and scholars are largely dependent on the statistics produced by Statistics SA.

There is great need for the production of statistics for our nation particularly in the midst of the pandemic so that the country can assess its progress.
The ANC UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 102 moves in support of Vote 12 on Statistics SA.

Ndiyabulela (I thank you).

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: I that the House adopts this report.

Thank you House Chair.

Question put.

Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON FIRST AND SECOND QUARTER PERFORMANCE OF 2020-21 FINANCIAL YEAR FOR BUDGET VOTE 9: DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING, MONITORING AND EVALUATION AND BRAND SOUTH AFRICA Mr T H JAMES: Thank you, House Chair.

The Department of Monitoring and Evaluation and Brand South Africa has presented the first and second quarter performance report for 2020-21 financial year.
The department together with Brand South Africa have experienced budget shortfall in the year under review.

However, we were concerned about the removal of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 103 certain crucial targets in the original annual performance plan due to budget adjustment.

The Department of Monitoring and Evaluation removed crucial targets such as budget prioritisation framework which remains the key document to guide budget allocation of government priorities.
As the committee responsible for the oversight of the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation, we will continue to pursue the department to develop a monitoring framework tool for the implementation of the National Development Plan.

The department has to move with speed in monitoring and evaluating the implementation of National Development Plan, NDP, by the government departments.
There’s a need to monitor high-level indicators to measure performance of the Medium-Term Strategic Framework of the department of National Development Plan.

We as the committee support this report.

Xitsonga: Ndza khensa.

[Va phokotela.]

English: There was no debate.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 104 Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party and African National Congress.
Declaration of vote(s): Tshivenḓa: Vho M S MALATSI: Ndi khou livhuwa nga maanḓa, Mudzulatshidulo.

English: This administration made a lot of noise about the introduction of performance agreement for Cabinet Ministers and director- generals.

While it is a good thing that those who have finally being completed they remain a meaningless box ticking exercise if they are not used to punish nonperformance and under delivery wade exists.
Far too many departments are failing to meet their basic targets including the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation, yet there is no demonstrable evidence that there are consequences for this.

For example, 28 performance agreements by heads of departments, HODs, across provincial governments were submitted late.

Needless to say that all of this were either in ANC provincial governments or at national level.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 105 In addition, ...
[Inaudible.]

... performance agreements were not submitted at all.

Once again, all of these were in the two capitals of corruption and nonexistence service delivery, namely, my home province Limpopo and the North West.

In contrast, the Western Cape has a 100% success rate in submitting performance agreements on time and it is acknowledged by the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation.

Ask your colleagues in that committee.


One of the common developments that hamper efficient performance in government is the failure to fill senior management vacancies on time.

There are currently 11 acting director-generals and 32 acting heads of departments across provincial governments.

Again, all of these exist where the ANC is in charge and none where the Western Cape DA is in charge.

This is no innocent incident.


The lack of agency in filling these critical posts is to deliberately designed to allow Ministers and members of executive council, MECs, to interfere in administrative functions of these departments.

In 2018, the President serenaded us with melodies promising lifestyle audits for Cabinet members.

Surprise, surprise, four years later no Minister has been subjected to a lifestyle audit.
Every time the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation has to account on these it fails to meet its deadlines.

It UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 106 manufactures a new excuse.

Initially we were told that the delay in finalising this was due to consultations over the framework.

Last year we were sold the spin that this will be finalised in March 2020.

When this didn’t happen a new deadline was introduced of October 2021.
When this didn’t happen the new convenient excuse was coronavirus disease 2019, Covid-19.

Yet, right here in the Western Cape Premier Allan Winde was able to deliver on his promise of finalising lifestyle audits for his Cabinet within nine months of taking office.

[Applause.]

This is simply because where there is a political way there will always be a way to deliver and no excuses.

One of the entities that falls under the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation is Brand South Africa, Brand SA.
What is very clear is that we need to finalise the reconfiguration of Brand SA and SA Tourism as soon as possible to avoid the existing duplication of mandates.

Brand SA is in a complete state of inefficiency.

It has an unprecedented high vacancy rate in senior management, for almost two years it has been unable to fill vacancies due ill-advice moratorium on posts.
It has so many acting senior managers rotating in different executive positions in the last few months that its human resource, HR, department can produce a cracker skilled UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 107 for a comical show on this.

It is basically being reduced to some lousy public relations, PR, agency where everyone is on permanent snooze.
There’s no thorough planning, there’s no strategic monitoring and definitely no efficient evaluation that requires any support for this department.

Thank you, House Chairperson.

[Applause.]

Ms R N KOMANE: Thank you very much, House Chair.

House Chairperson, this report was tabled in the department.

Therefore, the department and the Brand SA kept using the Covid-19 as an excuse for the inability to perform some of their functions.
Many heads of departments across the country have not had their performance agreements signed which makes it very difficult to hold them accountable for the massive failures we see in government today.

These failures have simply got nothing to do with Covid and everything to do with the government that is unable to do the most basic of its functions.

The department further went on to make fruitless expenditures in starting a hotline for reporting corruption in the public service.
This was just a lip service and an attempt to fool the public into thinking that the government was doing something about corruption.

Nothing has come out of this UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 108 hotline to date and nothing will ever come out.

The less said about Brand SA the better.

We cannot build a strong Brand SA as a nation when we have a weak President who is hiding over rapidly weakening state will now know that corruption is far worse ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order, I’m rising on Rule 84 on unparliamentary language.

The member has just called the President “a weak President”.

I think that is unparliamentary, a person cannot be a President and be weak at the same time.

It’s unparliamentary and offensive.

Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much.

Let’s please guard against what we say, hon Komane, please proceed.
Ms R N KOMANE: It’s a political statement, House Chairperson, anyway ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Proceed, hon Komane.

Ms R N KOMANE: We now know that corruption is far worst today than it was before this administration took over and there’s no amount of PR that will change that.

We need a government UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 109 that is committed to less PR and to do more delivery of service to our people.
The public service will be saved through proper leadership through appointment of men and women who are qualified and have interest of the nation at heart.

Thus, we reject this report.

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Thank you, House Chairperson, the report by this department ... What’s happening now?

IsiZulu: USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Bororto): Qhubeka, Ndabezitha.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: The report by this department under Programme 1 of its administration is to hire, develop and retain the right people in the right positions for the department throughout the planning period to successfully implement and realise ...

[Inaudible.]

... from ICT Solutions in doing the work of the department and to promote good corporal governance practices and management.

With this in mind, it is frustrating to see that when the committee investigated this department, ...

[Inaudible.]
[Inaudible.]

... its performance that issues are found to contradict this very statement.

Firstly, we see that Brand SA needs to have UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 110 retention strategy to retain its skilled employees, manage vacancy rate and attract quality personnel with the skills needed to execute its mandate.

It is ever more important for entities and departments to take and reliable so that ...

[Inaudible.]

... the state of decay.


On the subject of employment, it is completely unacceptable that Brand SA has forgotten already about marginalised people of this country and continues to follow this trend by not making provision for employment for a single person with disability.

Secondly, the department could not find to function sufficiently and achieve its target during the COVID- 19 pandemic.

As Members of Parliament, we ourselves had difficulty of executing our mandate under COVID-19.
Yet, we found ways to continue with our work and achieve targets.

This department cannot use this excuse to buy its way out of achieving its target and to justify why it has removed certain targets from its Annual Performance Plan, APP.

Unfortunately, as public service, it is vital to provide professional service delivery to the people.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 111 Finally, as is the trend with all departments, irregular, unauthorised and fruitless expenditure, is unacceptable and consequence management is demanded for purposes of accountability on behalf of the people in this country.

The IFP supports the report.

Chairperson, thank you.

Ms T MGWEBA: [Applause.]

Hon House Chair, hon members, the ANC supports Vote 9 on Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation.
Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation is essential to ensure that government programmes and policy is effectively implemented through the facilitation of the implementation of the National Development Plan, NDP.

There is a need for government to assess its progress and ensure that departments are aligned to their strategic and Annual Performance Plans, APP.
Monitoring and evaluation is crucial in assessing the effectiveness of government in all spheres of government, particularly in local government, provided the state of our municipalities.

Hon Malatsi, it was reported that the process of the signing of performance agreements with the Ministers has been finalised with the President.

They are the ones of the processes that will ensure accountability in the public service.
Understanding that COVID-19 impacted on the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 112 functionality of the department and the reaching of certain targets.

We were pleased as the portfolio committee to see improvements on the targets reached on the second quarter.

However, the department plays a central role in the realisation on the implementation of government policies.
Inadequacies in the department means that government will not be able to fully monitor the implementation of its policies.

The impact of government policies is a matter that requires adequate and great intention.

The department was advised to deal with service delivery complaints that were lodged into the Presidential Hotline, including the Khawuleza Programme.

Improving how government interacts with the people on the ground is one the objectives of the ANC.
The Presidential Hotline is a platform where members of the public can utilize to lodge complaints or queries and we hope that the department will attend to all the queries and the complaints lodged by members of the public.

This is what a responsive government does in implementing the values of Batho Pele Principles of putting the people first.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 113 Furthermore, the department was recommended to guard against irregular and fruitless expenditure for future purposes.

Understanding the shortfalls caused by COVID-19, the budget allocation of the department will ensure the proper implementation of all Sona priorities, monitor and evaluate their progress.
Ensuring a competent public service requires constant and proper monitoring and evaluation, allows for proper implementation of government programmes and objectives.

However, the department still needs to pay much intended attention spatial planning and development.

Brand SA is to continue to play special attention to its operations.

It is concerning to note that certain targets in the entity did not have clear timeframes.

Furthermore, certain targets in the entity were exceeded while some were not.
These raised concerns in the operation of Brand SA.

We urged Brand SA to improve on its vacancy rate and inclusion of persons with disabilities in their operations.

The Auditor-General has raised concerns with regard to the record keeping of Brand SA and we urge the entity to improve on those concerns.

The importance of Brand SA is crucial in driving investments in our country to foster economic growth.
Noting the damage done by COVID-19, such as high levels of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 114 unemployment and increasing inequality, we have to market our brand in a manner that would make South Africa appealing to foreign investors.

The ANC moves in support of Vote 9 on Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation.

I thank you, House Chair.

[Applause.]


The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON FIRST AND SECOND QUARTER PERFORMANCE OF 2020-21 FINANCIAL YEAR FOR BUDGET VOTE NO 7: NATIONAL SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT Mr T H JAMES: Thank you, House Chair.
The National School of Government, NSG, was severely impacted by the advent of the COVID-19 pandemic in the first financial year.

Under normal circumstances the school used to provide education, training and development through face-to-face contact.

However, in the 2020-21 financial year, the school had to readjust its UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 115 training and development approach, and adapt to online courses.
In an effort to change the training approach, the school realised that most of the clients do not have tools of trade such as laptops and data for connectivity, especially for lower level positions in the Public Service.

This challenge had a devastating effect on the performance of the school, both ... financial and nonfinancial targets.

The NSG’s training account, intended to generate income through training courses offered, was severely impacted by the low number of intake.
Therefore, the school was urged to invest ... its infrastructure on the virtual and online training programmes in order to empower public servants with the necessary training and development.

The school’s online training programme should be inclusive for all public servants, irrespective of whether officials have laptops and data.

We welcome progress made thus far regarding the online pre- entry programme for the senior management service which went live on 15 July 2019.
It is continuing to be rolled out.

We further encourage the school to market this training programme to all South Africans aspiring to join the Public Service in UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 116 future years.

We rise in support of this report, Madam Chairperson.

Declarations of Vote: Setswana: Ngaka M M GONDWE: Ke a leboga Modulasetulo.
Modulasetulo ... English: ... it is extremely disillusioning to sit in committee meetings and listen to government departments inform us that they failed to meet the performance targets due to the pandemic or as in the case of the NSG, that they incurred a considerable revenue shortfall due to the pandemic.
Prior to the onset of the pandemic, there was so much talk about the Fourth Industrial Revolution by the current administration that one would have thought that most government departments would effortlessly switch gear and adapt to the demands of online work.
However, as soon as the pandemic hit our shores, a form of paralysis set in and work in the Public Service drew to a grinding halt, and departments such as the NSG sustained considerable revenue shortfalls because they simply grew accustomed to doing things in the same predictable manner.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 117 House Chairperson, the NSG incurred a revenue shortfall of R21,3 million in the 2020-21 financial year.
What in actual fact happened was that during the hard lockdown the NSG experienced a low uptake or demand in its contact or face-to- face programmes.

Had the NSG been offering virtual or online programmes, in addition to its existing face-to-face or contact programmes prior to the onset of the pandemic, the department would likely not have incurred such a considerable revenue shortfall.
In an effort to ensure that the NSG has a perpetual revenue stream, we recommend that the NSG increases the number of virtual or online programmes that it currently has on offer.

We further recommend that the NSG makes a concerted effort to increase the uptake of its virtual or online programmes by public servants.

Sooner rather than later, the department will also need to conduct a proper analysis aimed at increasing the number of compulsory or mandatory programmes that it currently has on offer.
Failing which, it will continue to rely on the cherry- picking of crucial programmes by departments and officials.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 118 What is more, the committee has on a number of occasions advised the NSG to review its current funding model and develop its own funding model, of course with the assistance of National Treasury.
Such a revised funding model would wean the department from a total dependence on allocations from the national Budget or other government departments.

However, the development of this critical funding model by the NSG appears to not be a priority for the department.
During a recent interaction with the committee, the NSG informed the committee that engagements with National Treasury in relation to the development of this critical funding model are ongoing and that it had secured funding to the amount of R48 million from the Department of Public Works, which funding it hoped will resolve the future budgetary constraints of the department.
The NSG cannot continue to rely on allocations from National Treasury and other government departments, including Parliament, as every single department and entity is currently feeling the financial pinch.

As such, the NSG needs to really rank in importance and prioritise the development of its own funding model so as to ensure that it remains financially afloat.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 119 Last but not in the least, the spending patterns of the NSG in the 2020-21 financial year were rather concerning or worrying.

Even though the department was only able to meet or achieve 54% of its targets, it surprisingly was able to spend 97% of its budget.

This in effect means that had the NSG been able to achieve 100% of its targets it would’ve had a deficit for the subsequent financial year due to overspending.
We therefore urge the NSG to monitor its spending patterns in this regard and ensure that its spending for any given financial year is commensurate or proportionate to the budget spent.

[Applause.]

Mrs C C S MOTSEPE: Thank you very much, House Chairperson.

The NSG is meant to be a centre of excellence for a Public Service that is responsive and drives the developmental agenda of the country.
The compulsory and mandatory courses the school offers for those applying to be managers in government are not adequate to ensure that those who eventually do get employment are up to the task.

It is now common knowledge that many of those who drive acts of corruption in the state are managers who commit these acts at the behest of politicians.

The fact that the school of government has been severely underfunded for the past few years does not assist it in fulfilling its objectives.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 120 We commend the fact that, despite these limitations, the school of government hosted its second cohort of the economic governance school for members of the executive through its winter programme this year.

However, on its own and without a guiding vision of an efficient Public Service, this intervention will remain isolated and will not contribute to a Public Service that is desperately needed by our people.
For instance, it is highly doubtful that any of the interventions made by this school has had an effect on the Department of Home Affairs, which is simply an embarrassment to the state in the manner it serves our people.

The NSG must be properly funded and properly guided in order to be of any effect in the Public Service.

Therefore, the EFF rejects this report.


Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Hon House Chair, the National School of Government, an entity of the Ministry of Public Service and Administration, has over the years build public sector capacity.

The school has had meaningful collaborations with local and international stakeholders in providing responsive education.
Their recent partnership with the Trade and Industry policy strategy has a resulted in economic policy UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 121 development expertise for civil servants more importantly because of the civil servant strategy is revitalising the economy which has been seriously affected by the Covid-19 pandemic.

The IFP is aware that the budget for the National School of Government, NSG, has been significantly affected by the pandemic.
The NSG’s education, training and development initiatives fulfil an important role in providing public servants with desperately needed human resource skills.

The budget for the school due to compulsory baseline reduction experience across all government departments will face a further increasing expenditure from R136,5 million in 2020-21 to R103,7 million in 2023-24.
Whilst we support these budget cuts made by government with the aim of freeing more funding for essential services for the pandemic, we voiced our concern earlier this year in that we cannot allow the NSG’s training programmes to be compromised.

We also acknowledge that traditional learning, as we know it, has significantly changed.

There has been an increasing need for virtual and remote learning and the NSG has adopted these new e-learning platforms and embraced additional methods in teaching.
These adaptations allow the NSG to continue UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 122 empowering civil servants by providing them with education, training and skills to develop meaningful interventions in the workplace.
Earlier recommendations from the portfolio committee included suggestions that the NSG should continue to engage the National Treasury on exploring alternative funding models and use online resources effectively and efficiently to provide their training programmes.

We encourage the NSG to invest more in online learning to ensure it continue to deliver on its mandate of providing quality education, training and development relevant to the needs of the public sector.
The IFP applauds the NSG for having no paces of unauthorised expenditure, fruitless and wasteful expenditure.

The IFP is concerned with the reduction of the ... [Time expired.]

We support the report.

Thank you.

Mr W M MADISHA: House Chair, Cope supports.

Thank you.

Ms M M NTULI: House Chair, the ANC moves in support of this year’s Vote 7 of Charlotte Maxeke.
The National School of Government plays a crucial role in the capacitation of public servants - a significant element in the building of a capable UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 123 ethical state in advancing honesty and integrity of the Public Service.

Capacity involves the improvement of human resources and the skills necessary to enhance the envisaged goals as outlined in the National Development Plan, NDP.
IsiZulu: Inyukela, iyavuma ukuthi uma ungena uzosebenzela umphakathi [uhulumeni], ufundile, namajazi akho elinye phezu kwelinye, kodwa lithi, nyukela ube ngaphezulu ngohlelo lweNyukela.

English: The NSG’s vision is very clear in rolling out holistic courses and their training programmes from entry level up to the executive.

We understand the disruptions of the Covid-19 pandemic and difficult conditions under which they were operating.
Therefore, we applaud NSG for swiftly undertaking the new normal in this regard.

We all know that schooling and training are meant for physical interaction.
We note the work done by the NSG together with the Department of Women to take the pandemic of the gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF, into cognisance by launching an accredited gender course in 2020 focussing on gender mainstreaming in the Public Service’s gender-based violence and gender responsive UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 124 planning and budget.

Professionalising the Public Service means having competent public servants.
Possessing the relevant skills in the provision of service delivery the National School of Government offers correct content to assist them in increasing their capacity and skills for them to conduct their work competitively.

We appreciate the fact that the National School of Government has partnered with other institutions to maximise the capacitation of public servants enabling them for effectiveness.

These courses range from administration, induction, management and leadership.
As the ANC we acknowledge the school for playing a central co=ordination role in capacitating public servants in all spheres of government.

IsiZulu: Uhulumeni ka-ANC awozeli, awulali ulwa nobubha, ukusweleka kwemisebenzi nokulwela ukuvala igebe lokulingana.

I-National School of Government, NSG, inikeza izikhali zokulwa nale mpi ngempumelelo.

Sibonile ophondweni lwale mpi uMongameli u-Cyril Ramaphosa eyihola ngokwakhe wayithatha esinye salezi zifundo.
Ukuze kufezekiswe umyalezo we-ANC ukuthi ... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 125 English: ... together in helping communities.

IsiZulu: Siyabonga, baba Matamela ngokuhola ngaphambili futhi ungabi yibhodi elikhomba indlela kodwa lime lingayihambi.

Sihole Mongameli.

English: Noting the school’s finance reports indicated challenges due to Covid-19 and that face to face interaction in the school had to be cancelled and due to this a large amount of revenue was lost.
The school nevertheless made use of virtual platform and continued with some of its courses that were offered online.

We commend the compulsory pre-entry course Nyukela programme for senior management service, SMS, positions.

The school also invested in new cyber security software across the National School of Government to protect the information and communications technology, ICT, environment provided that the NSD has fallen victim to two cyber-attacks previously.
We applaud the progress that the school has undertaken and continue to appreciate its efforts to professionalise the Public Service through this course.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 126 The employment equity in the National School of Government is commended as the school has representation of women, youth and persons with disabilities.
Yes, we are building a culture of excellent service through capability and improvising the quality of service through adequate training and strong Public Service.

The ANC calls upon all offers in this august House to join hands in assisting NSG to improve this pivotal role in creating ethical Public Service through the professionalisation of the state for effective service delivery for the benefit of our people and better life for all.

The ANC moves in support of Vote 7 National School of Government.
I thank you.

[Applause.]

IsiZulu: Hhawu!

Naze nangibangela umsindo.

Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and United Democratic Movement dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 127 CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON FIRST AND SECOND QUARTER PERFORMANCE OF 2020-21 FINANCIAL YEAR FOR BUDGET VOTE 10 - DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION Mr T H JAMES: House Chair, we are today debating the First and Second Performance Report of the Department of Public Service and Administration for 2020-21 financial year.
The 2020 financial year was severely affected by the COVID-19 pandemic, as the country experienced and faced cases resulting in the government implementing hard lockdown to prevent the spread and prepare for the outbreak.

Government officials during this hard lockdown were working remotely.

Therefore, performance was not at its best of the department’s ability.

During this quarter of the financial year, government department budget was cut to fund COVID-19 activities.
We note that during these two quarters, that the department was in a process of drafting guidelines for conducting lifestyle audit in the public service.

We urge the department to expedite this crucial process with the aim of rooting out corruption in the public service.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 128 Lifestyle audit in the public service will assist government to develop and undertake an understanding on the kind of officials employed with the aim of determining the level of conflict of interest despite the financial disclosure framework system.

The department should be at the centre of this lifestyle audit even though the process will be decentralised among departments.
We are concerned about the timeframes for tabling the amendment of these important pieces of legislation which are Public Administration Management Act and Public Service Act.

We urge the department to prioritise amendments of these legislation without delay.

We were though pleased about the e-leave management system from the Eastern Cape province replicated at the centre of public service innovation as part of assessing possible nationwide roll-out.
We viewed this as an effort towards digitalizing government services and encouraging this centre to collaborate with the Department of Public Service and Administration to ensure manual leave application in the public service is the thing of the past.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 129 We urge this House to support this report.

Thank you, hon House Chair.

[Applause.]

There was no debate.


Declaration of votes: Dr L A SCHREIBER: Hon Chairperson, although this past year has been a difficult year for South Africa in so many ways, there are at least two beacons of light that stand out.

In the first place, history will remember 2021 when the ANC finally lost election when its national majority crashing to well below 50%.
The second, and related bright spot from 2021, was the way in which the State Capture Commission finally exposed that which the DA has been warning about for 25 years; namely that the ANC policy of cadre deployment is the foundation of state capture and corruption in South Africa.

[Applause.]

As can be seen again here today, it is rather unfortunate today that these two things have not yet sunk in for the ANC.
Just like the party choses to blame the public broadcaster rather than face up to the fact that its super majority is gone forever, so too do they and the Department of Public UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 130 Service and Administration continue to defend cadre deployment.
They do so despite the fact that the State Capture Commission already confirmed that the ANC’s cadre deployment committee even influenced the appointment of judges to the highest court in our country.

However, I do have news for the ANC.

Your recent electoral loses and the public outcry against cadre deployment is just the beginning.

Things are going to get a whole lot worse for you from 2022 onwards, which means that things may finally start to become better for South Africa.
The ANC’s pain is likely to start as soon as new year’s day 2022.

For the 1 January 2022 is the deadline day for when the final report of the State Capture Commission must be on President Ramaphosa’s desk.

South Africa lives in hope that this report will finally expose the President’s beloved policy of cadre deployment for what it truly is.

This signature disgrace that the ANC has rot on our country.
Soon after, the DA will win our cadre deployment court case against the ANC whereby we will expose for the whole world to see, the inner working of the deployment committee.

It will allow South Africans to see how UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 131 the ANC appointed people on the basis of loyalty to the party, its ideology and its financial interests to capture the most important institutions in our country.
It will how the deployment committee which was of course Chaired by President Ramaphosa between 2013 and 2018 rewarded the corrupt and prevented skilled and ethical applicants from being appointed to positions of power.

In bright technical detail, these records will show how the ANC betrayed the people, why the people are right to turn their backs on this dying party and how the Department of Public Service and Administration did nothing to stop them.
In 2022 the cadre deployment scandal will further accelerate the momentum generated by the 2021 election.

Building into an unstoppable avalanche by 2024 when the people will do to the ANC nationally what they have already done to it, locally.

[Applause.]

While the ANC clearly may be so blinded by arrogance that they really cannot see what is coming, everyone else can see what is coming as daylight.

South Africa is done with cadre deployment, just like they are done with the ANC!
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 132 As the election of DA mayors across the country made clear, South Africans are yearning for a new government that will scrap cadre deployment and build a capable state by appointing the best among us to positions of power.

The days of this government and the days of its signature disgrace are numbered; where once this party and its use of cadre deployment to control seemed almost untouchable.
Cadre deployment has now been reduced to little more than a lame duck policy defended by a lame duck President who runs a lame duck government.

Bring on 2022!

I thank you, House Chairperson.

[Applause.]

Ms R N KOMANE: Hon House Chairperson, it is very difficult for us to understand how the Department of Public Service and Administration hopes to have the public service that works when the departments are unable to fill fully funded vacant posts for years.
The committee noted and raised its concerns about the inability of the department to facilitate a more meaningful way of filling vacant posts in the public service.

We also raised our concerns about the inability of this department to deal decisively with fruitless, irregular and wasteful expenditures.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 133 The department has also failed dismally to cap the practice of public servants who were doing business with the state.
And that on a few occasions where these public servants have been identified, nothing was ever done to them.

For they are afraid to deal with them because they are elements of cadre deployment.

This department’s greatest failure however, has been its inability to resolve the public wage negotiation crisis of the public servants, hon House Chairperson.

The department entered into an agreement with public service unions a few years ago.

Those agreements must be honoured.


The public servants must have their salaries increased in terms of those agreements.

This matter is long overdue, hon House Chairperson.

The fact that this issues have been taken to court for a resolution point to a deep problem of lack of leadership in this same public service.

Thus the EFF rejects this report.

Thank you very much, hon House Chairperson.


Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Hon House Chair, on the Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration on First and second quarter performance, the IFP accepts the recommendations and the committee’s report.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 134 The IFP wishes to acknowledge the positive reporting and that the department appear to adhere to sound financial management in the period under review.
It is encouraging that there were no cases of unauthorised or irregular expenditure in the first and second quarter.

And, it is also a positive indication that the department was able to pay all service providers within 30-days in both quarters.

And that 27 out of the 30 planned targets were achieved.

We do also accept the department’s reason for their deviation in meeting the planned targets.
The IFP however remains highly concerned about the failure of the department to finalise the disciplinary cases within 90- days.

This failure has been noted across all government departments.

The failure demands closer oversight from our committee on the reasons we provided on failing to give effect to consequence management.

As a committee, we need to consider more closely what can be done in our oversight role to force the executive to account for these failures.
Since the report, the Minister of Public Service Administration has approved the guide to implement lifestyle audit in the public service, referred to in the report.

This guide came into effect on 1 April 2021.

It will now make it compulsory for the national and provincial departments as well UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 135 as other government entities to conduct their lifestyle audits, and this is a crucial step in oversight and enforcing accountability.
In conclusion, as we near the end of the year, we need to remind ourselves as Members of Parliament, of the crucial role we play and must play in holding the executive accountable.

We have the power to demand answers, enforce accountability and transparency.

We must use all the tools available to us to give effect to this duty.

The IFP will actively monitor this department’s performance especially the results of the lifestyle audit report of public servants.

The IFP accepts the report.


Thank you, House Chair.

Ms H DENNER: House Chair, section 195 of the Constitution lists as necessary the values and principles of an effective public administration of firstly, a high standard of professional ethics that must be promoted and maintained.

Secondly, efficient economic and effective use of resources, transparency that must be promoted by providing the public with timely, accessible and accurate information.
Equally, if not most important, public administration must be accountable.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 136 In contradiction with these values, it is worrying that the Portfolio Committee for Public Service and Administration observed that consequence management over the first and second quarters of the year is still a concern in a number of departments.
We have recently received a report from the Special Investigation Unit, SIU, that nearly 6 000 government employees, mainly working for the Department of Health and Department of Education, benefited from the Covid-19 Temporary Employer-Employee Relief Scheme, to the tune of R351 million.

Were there consequences for these government employees and what were the outcomes?
The committee observed that several government departments have failed to finalise other disciplinary cases within the prescribed 90-days.

Many of these employees against whom disciplinary action is pending have been sitting at home for months.

Suspended on full pay from the fiscus with absolutely no return on investment for the start.

And COVID-19, has absolutely nothing to do with this lack of action.

It has been there before covid and as we can see, it is ever present.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 137 A further worrying observation is the fact that critical posts are not filled, resulting in poor service delivery to the public.

This observation is present in nearly every quarterly performance report of this department and many other departments.

Just like a constant lack of consequence management and the ever looming fruitless and wasteful expenditure problem.
Which can easily be addressed by, yet again, proper consequence management.

Guidelines for lifestyle audits for state employees that was mentioned by the President during the first state of the nation address, for the 6th Parliament nearly three-years ago have been drafted three-years later.

But have they been implemented and what are the outcomes of these lifestyle audits?

House Chair, we have one of the best Constitutions in the world, that sets some of the most noble values and highest standards.
Oh, what a world it would be if the state adhered to these standards.

But before the department in charge of ensuring that other departments adhered to these standards, does not first do it themselves by ensuring that constantly repeated problems and mistakes are effectively addressed.

This UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 138 government will never measure up to the standards of our Constitution.

I thank you, House Chair.

Ms V P MALOMANE: Thank you, Chairperson.


The ANC moves in support of Vote 10.

Public Service and Administration.

In order to resolve the problem, we have to identify the cause.

This is part of the strategy that the ANC has undertaken to resolve the difficulties and all that is undesirable in the public service.

Having a single public service ... IsiZulu: Thula!

Lalela!

English: ...

Listening is a skill.


Having a single public service encapsulates all elements of a developmentally capable state that addresses corruption.

Do you hear that?

Improving technical capability and capacity, performance accountability and clean governance in the public service and a quality of service delivery.
Notwithstanding the importance of values and ethics in public service, which are the underlying pillars of a single public service, where we put people at the centre of governance.

As prescribed by the “Batho Pele” principles.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 139 We are amending the current legislations such as the Public Administration Management Act, PAMA, and the Public Service Act, PSA, and building uniformity in the public service throughout all spheres of government.

Resolving the issue of the current dispensation incorporated in the building of a developmental state which government is currently putting in place.

I want to speak to you, DA.


You come here and grandstand and speak about election related issues.

When you do that, the ANC still leads.

Where you are leading as the DA, you are leading as a coalition government with the EFF ...

[Interjections.]

...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Malumane, wait!

Hon members, you are drowning the speaker on the podium.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order, madam Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon members on my left, you are drowning the speaker, I can’t even hear.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Just hold on!

Hon House Chairperson, if I may stand on a point of order.

The hon UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 140 member at the podium address the DA directly which is not allowed according to parliamentary rules, but she would never know because this is probably the first time ...

[Interjections.]

...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): No!

hon Mazzone ...

[Interjections.]

...

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: ... you cannot stand up and instigate a fight and not expect a response.

She turned around and said to us “I am addressing you, DA.” The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Mazzone, that does not mean you should drown her.

To refer to the party has never been out of order.

You said she is out of order by referring to the DA.
Refereeing to the party has never been out of order.

Thank you very much.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I accept that completely.

But then I must tell you, she won’t be drowned out, she will just be told the truth.

Ms J TSHABALALA: You are out of order.

Can I rise in a point of order, hon Chair?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 141 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Tshabalala, please!

I didn’t give you an opportunity to speak.


Hon members of the DA, you cannot drown the speaker like that.

And she said nothing out of order about the DA and that’s how we speak.

We don’t speak about persons, we only speak about the party.

That’s what we have learned in this House.

If you have something to say, you will send your member to speak on the podium and not from where you are.

Proceed, hon Malomane.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, I rise on a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Who is that?

Mr N L S KWANKWA: What do we do in rare instances where speakers at the podium drown out themselves?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Kwankwa, that is not a point of order.

Just be quiet please, and don’t escalate the matter further.

Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, hon Tshabalala wanted to raise a point of order and she was not recognised.

In the previous debate I raised my hand through the gadget and I was not recognised.
And that is why she just budged in so that she can UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 142 get your attention.

Can you please give her an opportunity to make her point of order?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon Radebe, with the issue of hands I rely on the secretariat that has got the gadget, and I was not informed.

When you are on the virtual platform you just raise your hand and say you want to make a point of order.
I am relying on them and if they don’t see the hand I am not told.

If it is about the matter on the table, I have already made a ruling on it.

Can we allow hon Malumane to proceed?

Thank you.

IsiZulu: Nk V P MALOMANE: I-ANC isazobusa.

English: During the first and second reports, it was concerning that some of the report were not submitted on time by the department and a number of vacant posts where alarming.
However, we welcome the rolling out of the guidelines of lifestyle audits to the various departments and hope that this will intensify the effort of increasing accountability and transparency on public servants.

The issue of public servants doing business with the state is problematic in the public UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 143 service and it hinders the progress in the fight against corruption.
We encourage the public service administration sector to be the main driver on the innovation of public service, although we commend the work that is continuously done by the entity.

Understanding that the entity was also affected by the budget cuts which meant that it could not carry out its operations.

It is amazing to say that the public service no longer exists.

As the ANC, we are well aware of the challenges experienced in the public service.
However, we are not selective or blind to the fact that nothing is being done in the fight against corruption as purported by the DA and the EFF.

In improving state capacity and capability, we have to acknowledge the progress made to deal decisively with corruption and accountability and improving state capacity.

The ANC took a decision to say “this year is a year for renewal.

This year is the year for the ANC to rebuild itself.” So, don’t worry about ...

[Interjections.]

...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Order!

Hon members of the DA, you are drowning the speaker on the podium.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 144 Ms V P MALOMANE... so, don’t worry yourselves about our internal issues.

We are busy cleaning ourselves.

The President is fighting the issues of corruption.

If you want to be a member of the ANC, go to the ANC portal and join.
Professionalism and having a single public service aims at addressing the problems in the public service and to improve the quality of service delivery throughout government and its all spheres.

This then benefits South Africans that are largely depended on the government for the provision of service delivery.

The ANC moves in support of Vote 10.


Siswati: Hlukanani netindzaba taKhongolose, nakani tenu ... English: You are lamenting about cadre deployment, when you are led by someone with only a matric certificate, Thank you, House Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Thank you, hon Malomane.

Order hon members!

I can’t hear and there is a member on the platform.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 145 The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chair, I rise on a point of order.

I just want to say I am sorry, for the last 20 seconds of the speech we didn’t hear a word that she said.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): How do you hear the speaker on the podium when you keep on making noise and making sure that she is drowned.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the report be adopted.
IsiXhosa: Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi namhlanje ... IsiNdebele: USIHLALO WENDLU (Kkz M G BOROTO): Sikuzwile bab’uKwankwa.

English: Noted.

IsiXhosa: Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi Sihlalo weNdlu, bendiphawula ngokululama kukaMbhexeshi oyiNtloko, uThole.

Hayi namhlanje usuke wamaka.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 146 IsiNdebele: USIHLALO WENDLU (Kkz M G Boroto): Kodwana niyazi ukuthi ... English: ... you are flouting the rules.

IsiNdebele: Kuzizini izinto enizitjhoko kwanjesi?


English: Thank you.

IsiNdebele: Ningayenzi into le eniyenzako bab’uKwankwa, ningayenzi.

English: ... let’s respect the decorum of this House.

Thank you, the report has been adopted and we note the objections.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON FIRST AND SECOND QUARTER PERFORMANCE OF 2020-21 FINANCIAL YEAR FOR BUDGET VOTE 12: PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 147 Mr T H JAMES: House Chair, the Public Service Commission, PSC, is vested with custodial oversight responsibility for the public service to monitor, evaluate, investigate public administration practices.
It also has the power to issue directives regarding compliance with the personnel procedures relating to recruitment, transfers, promotions and dismissals.

The PSC was also affected in these two financial quarters by the COVID-19 pandemic and hard lockdown.

However, during this period, the PSC continued to monitor the Government Employees Pension Fund, GEPF, with regard to ensuring that the pension pay-outs are processed timeously for public service pensioners.
We realised that most of the retired public servants are experiencing inefficient services from the Government Employees Pension Fund.

We note that some government departments continue to pay invoices after 30 days.

This is in contravention of the Public Finance Management Act.

A culture of consequence management in the entire public service needs to be inculcated.
We commend the Public Service Commission for being proactive in its work by conducting inspections in schools across the provinces to assess the state of readiness by the Department of Basic Education to open schools after the hard lockdown.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 148 Sesotho: Re tsitsinya hore Ntlo ena e amohele tlaleho ena.
Declarations of Vote: Dr M M GONDWE: Chairperson, the stench of corruption has permeated every inch of our country, including the public service.

This is evidenced by the number of public servants that applied for the R350 Social Relief of Distress, SRD grant, and the number of public servants that applied for other grants other than the SRD grant, whose number is 177 000 public servants.
Public servants who applied for these grants which are intended for the most vulnerable members of our society, and not public servants, were drawing a monthly salary from the state coffers.

The Public Service Commission, a creature of Chapter 10 of the Constitution, manages the National Anti- Corruption Hotline and the Financial Disclosure Framework, which are, loosely speaking, mechanisms to combat and prevent corruption in the public service.
However, both mechanisms have proved to be ineffective in the fight against the scourge of corruption in the public service.

The majority of cases that are reported to the hotline are UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 149 then referred to the relevant departments for investigation.
And more often than not, these cases are not investigated by the relevant departments for the simple reason that some of our departments just do not have the capacity to investigate the reported cases of corruption, let alone finalise their disciplinary cases.

The framework, on the other hand, is able to assist the Public Service Commission to assess compliance on the part of public servants with the requirement to declare financial interests.
However, the framework is limited in that it's unable to detect corruption in the public service from the onset and can only detect it after the fact, which in most instances is a whole financial year after the fact.
Rather than establishing new and multiple units within the Department of Public and Administration for purposes of tackling corruption in the public service, a more prudent option would be to capacitate and empower the Public Service Commission to be more effective in the fight against corruption in the public service.
One way in which we can capacitate and empower the Public Service Commission in this sense is to render the implementation of its recommendations binding on all the affected departments, at present, departments, including the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 150 Department of Public Service and Administration, are systematically disregarding the recommendations made by the Public Service Commission in its various reports and investigations.
As a case in point on the recommendations that the Public Service Commission made to the Department of Public Service and Administration, in relation to the backlog of the disciplinary cases within the public service, which disciplinary cases, I might add, are costing South African taxpayers billions on an annual basis.
The Public Service Commission recently informed the committee that it had made the recommendations in a number of reports to the Department of Public Service and Administration in this regard but these recommendations were ignored and disregarded by the Department of Public Service and Administration.

Our public service ...

[Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: House Chairperson, I’ve had my hand up for a long time.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Gondwe!

Okay!
Okay!

Thank you for raising it.

As I’ve said before, my screens don't have UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 151 that ... what do you call it?

Icon!

So, I'm relying on the secretariat to inform me, but I will allow you now because he has just seen it.

Thank you.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Thank you, Chairperson ... IsiZulu: ... ngisaba nokuxoshwa phela ... English: ... that's why I don't want to be making noise.

I raised my hand.
I raised my hand.

I wanted to ask if the member would mind taking a question because she said something completely not correct.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Gondwe, do you want to take a question?

Dr M M GONDWE: Absolutely, not!

[Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.

Before you proceed, hon Gondwe, ...

[Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: After being ignored, she was going to say so.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 152 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Zulu, let me say this.

Do not respond.

Let me address all the members on the virtual platform.

The secretariat does have the laptops so that they can assist me.
But most of the time, I don't know what is preoccupying them, but can I request that you just raise your voice and say a point of order House Chair or whoever will be on the seat so that we can ... not to speak, but to ask for a point of order.

That we do allow because it's not easy when you are on the virtual platform to be recognised through your hand.

Thank you very much.

Proceed, ma'am Gondwe.


Dr M M GONDWE: House Chairperson ... needs a Public Service Commission that is not only independent but also obsessed with promoting and safeguarding a corruption-free, merit-based and nonpartisan public service that serves all South Africans.

Such a Public Service Commission can only be established if this august House empowers and capacitates the Public Service Commission in the same manner that it empowered and capacitated the Office of the Auditor-General.
My colleague, hon Schreiber, is the face behind a brilliant Private Member's Bill called the Public Administration Laws General Amendment Bill.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 153 This Bill, amongst other things, seeks to empower and capacitate the Public Service Commission in this regard.

And we earnestly hope, and this is a genuine hope, that this august House will ensure that this Bill sees the light of day and becomes legislation.
Uprooting and preventing corruption in the public service has to begin with the appointment of competent and qualified persons to lead our Chapter 9 and 10 institutions without fear, favour or prejudice.

[Applause.]

In early January, next year, the committee will start shortlisting candidates for the three vacant commissioner positions at the Public Service Commission.

And we expect the committee to make appointments for these positions solely on the basis of merit and competency.
Partisan or cadre appointments have throttled and continue to throttle the public service from becoming the capable, ethical, merit-based public service that we all desire to see and experience as citizens of this country.

Setswana: Ke a leboga, Modulasetilo.

[Legofi] UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 154 Mrs C C S MOTSEPE: The work of the commission is to promote honesty and dignity, integrity to enable to fight against corruption.
Yes, so far as long as the ruling party still dreams of fighting corruption, the work of this commission will never be realised.

We always come to Parliament in various platforms to listen to the rhetoric of enforcing Batho Pele, but for as long as that is still a dream nothing will be achieved until the ruling party walk the talk by putting Batho Pele not to their pockets and stomach together with their families.
The establishment of a joint government and civil society working group, which is said to develop National Anti- Corruption Strategy and implementation plan has not born any fruit that’s far as we still public servants doing business with the state and little is done to this effect as there is minimal if no consequence management is recorded.

Chair, we still reiterate that.

Reinforcement of anti-corruption at senior management will only be on the day cadre deployment by the ruling party is ended.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 155 And we as the EFF, we don’t see that day coming from the ruling party until the EFF takes over.

So therefore, we reject this report.

We thank you.

[Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The IFP?

Thank you, ma.

[Interjections.]

Mrs C C S MOTSEPE: The EFF, mam.

Not the IFP, Chairperson?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, I am calling the next person.

I thank you, mama.

[Interjections.]

I thank you.


I am calling the IFP.

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: ...

[Inaudible.]

... IsiZulu: USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Bab’uCebekhulu ulayini wakho yakhulahla ngicela uvale ividiyo.

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: ...

[Inaudible.]

... IsiZulu: USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Ulayini uyala Ndabezitha.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 156 Mr N SINGH: Hon House Chairperson?

Okay.

Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Thank you, hon House Chair.


The mandate of Public Service Commission guided by section 195 and 196 of the SA Constitution seeks to investigate, monitor and evaluation the organisation ...

[Inaudible.]

...

[Interjections.]

IsiZulu: USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Kodwa ngabe yikho na.

Kungani ngathi nathi siyafriza la.

English: The Whip of the IFP, do you want to take it forward?

Mr N SINGH: Yes.

Thank you, hon House Chairperson.

I will assist.


I know he is in an area where there could be connection problems.

The mandate of the Public Service Commission guided by section 195 and 196 of the SA Constitution seeks to investigate, monitor and evaluate the organisational of the registration of the public servants.
The commission is therefore task to the custodian oversight of the Public Service, and is an important machinery in UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 157 controlling the public administration.

A DA had to contribute from principle.

Despite this noble mandate, hon Chairperson, corruption within the Public Service remains and widespread and always one of the biggest challenge facing this country.
Since the outbreak of the pandemic in 2020, civil servants have been implicated in various personal protective equipment, PPE, scandals and this is unacceptable.

The corruption emanating from the Public Service show cases of abuse of power and general trend of professional behavior ...

[Inaudible.]

... We are encouraging the commission to continue using its oversight to bring all corrupt civil servants to book.
The IFP acknowledges the Public Service Commission for paying all its service provider within 30 days in the first and second quarter of 2021.

Equally, we approached the commission for the absence of unauthorised expenditure, fruitful and wasteful expenditure as well during the same period.

The commission also managed to achieved the majority of its targeting programme one and two.

[Interjections.]

We encourage the commission to welcome the targets that it did not achieved.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 158 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mvana, please mute.

You are disturbing the proceedings.

Proceed, hon Singh.

Mr N SINGH: I will just repeat that sentence.

We encourage the commission to work on those targets that it did not achieved but at the same time we are aware that the commission is operating during the pandemic.
We support the recommendations from the committee that the vacancies for the commissioners in Mpumalanga, KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo provinces should be filled.

We also strongly condemn the lack of consequence management for the entire Public Service.

And finally, hon Chairperson, you know, watching in the proceedings of the House from 2 o’clock this afternoon, I can see why December period is called the silly season because, you know, there have been something happening in the House.
Let’s give credence to the December being called the silly season.

The IFP support the report.

Thank you, Chairperson.

[Interjections.].

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.

It’s not a silly season, we are waking each other up.

It’s too late now.

And they are tired.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 159 IsiXhosa: Nks M T KIBI: Sihlalo weNdlu, uyayazi ukuba isiXhosa sithi, umntu lilahle elinothuthu kodwa makhe ndiqale ngale yam kuqala English: Hon Chair, the ANC support this Vote of the Public Service Commission.

The Public Service Commission has the responsibility to promote the values and principles of the Public Service as stipulated in the Constitution.
There is a need for a value driven approach in the Public Service.

We must ensure that public servants adhered to the code of conduct to promote the culture of discipline in the Public Service.

We must accelerate honestly, competency and accountability in the Public Service and fight corruption by all means necessary, particularly with public servants conducting business with the state.
We are ensuring that, public servants uphold the values and principles of the public administration by promoting ethical leadership and focusing on profesionalising the public servants into a single Public Service.

The department need to ensure that invoices are paid with due time as department that do not comply dent our democracy.

We UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 160 must clean out corruption in the Public Service and promote to uphold the code of conduct.
We commended the steps that were taken against the Director- General of the Public Service Commission.

Any form of corruption will not be tolerated in government no matter how senior and official may be.

That’s what we are saying as the ANC.

We are not going to tolerate corruption, and you will never understand and accept that we are fighting corruption.

We also welcome the appointment of the Commissioner, Dr Fikeni, although you opposed also on his appointment.
We urge the commission to fill in all vacant positions.

We cannot have a high number of vacant posts with our drastic levels of unemployment in the country and women, youth and persons with disabilities must be prioritised.

We must continue to monitor irregular expenditure and cases of financial misconduct in the Public Service and ensure for stringent consequence management to avoid public servants breaching the code of conduct.
As the ANC government, we want to increase accountability, openness and transparency in the Public Service.

We are implementing life style audit to prevent and detect fraud and corruption in the government.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 161 The Public Service Commission will continue to provide support to the Department of Public Service and Administration in the profesionalisation of the Public Service and building state capability through the monitoring and evaluating with the values and principles of the Public Service and ensure uniformity across all spheres of government for an ethical and competent Public Service through the rooting out of corruption and increasing state transparency, accountability and fighting corruption.
We are nearing our goal of the National Development Plan, NDP, of building a capable state where the masses of our people could greatly benefit for the services that are provided by the state and ensure access to essential services, such as water, electricity, proper sanitation and so forth.

The ANC still stands; we support this Vote.

Hon Chair, I think one needs to comment on this one.

You know, the DA today is bragging about municipalities that you are governing.
When the ANC was governing municipalities; it was not coalition.

The ANC governed the municipalities, one man alone.

So, you cannot come and brag here about coalitions.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 162 And one other thing that I have to tell you, the DA will never govern South Africa.

Those days are over.

And the other thing, you are busy telling us every day about deployment.
You forget that your great-grandparents were deploying standard eight people to be heads in departments where our black people are with diplomas are in those departments.

Was it not deployment?

Now is something funny because is done by the ANC.


And I want to say today, those that did not have the chance are free today to say I object or I don’t agree I disagree, where you don’t even have the chance to object during your government, even if you were forced to send your children as young as they are to the army after they have been finished standard 10.

I thank you, Chairperson.

[Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you very much, Madam House Chair.
I move that this Report be adopted.

Thank you.

Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2021 Page: 163 The House adjourned at 18:16