Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698055810230.pdf (Papua New Guinea)
SECOND DAY __________________________ Wednesday 23 February 2022 _________________________ Subject: Page No: QUESTIONS ............................................................................................................................ 1 Warangoi Hydro Plant – Landowner Compensation ............................................................. 1 Establish Credit Guarantee Corporation ................................................................................ 3 Supplementary Question ...................................................................................................... 14 Logging Levy Funds ............................................................................................................ 14 Supplementary Question ...................................................................................................... 15 LEDL Guidelines ................................................................................................................. 15 SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS – ....................................................................... 16 EXTENDED TIME FOR QUESTIONS .............................................................................. 16 Supplementary Question ...................................................................................................... 17 Gulf Province – King Tide ................................................................................................... 17 P’nyang Gas Agreement ...................................................................................................... 19 REFORMS, PROGRESS AND THE FUTURE – .............................................................. 26 MINISTERIAL STATEMENT – PAPER NOTED ........................................................... 26 ADJOURNMENT .................................................................................................................. 56 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES CORRECTIONS TO DAILY DRAFT HANSARD The Draft Hansard is uncorrected.
It is also privileged.

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Until the expiration of this one-week period, Draft Hansard must not be quoted as final and accurate report of the debates of the National Parliament.

Corrections maybe marked on a photocopy of the Daily Draft Hansard and lodged at the Office of the Principal Parliamentary Reporter, Al -23 (next to the Security Control Room).
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New matters may not be introduced, Principal Parliamentary Reporter SECOND DAY Wednesday 23 February 2022 The Deputy Speaker (Mr Koni Iguan) took the Chair at 10 a.m.
There being no quorum present, Mr Deputy Speaker stated that he would resume the Chair after the ringing of the Bells.

Sitting suspended.

The Deputy Speaker again took the Chair at 10.50 a.m., and invited the Member for Pomio, Honourable Elias Kapavore, to say Prayers; ‘Lord, today we declare that there is no one like you.

We acknowledge your presence in this Honourable House.

Today we pray and commit this day into your hands.

We ask your spirit to guide us today in all our discussions in this House.
Lord we pray for the political leadership from the wards level, the districts, the provinces and this Parliament today; we commit everyone in this nation into your mighty hands.

We surrender and humble ourselves today to acknowledge that you are the Lord God Almighty and there is no one like you.
Today we commit the Prime Minster, the Opposition Leader, the Ministers, the Governors and all the Members of Parliament as we surrender all our thoughts that you guide and lead us today in our discussions in this meeting.

Lord, this is our prayer.

Amen’ Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Members, I welcome you all to the second day of the Parliament meeting this week.

QUESTIONS Warangoi Hydro Plant – Landowner Compensation Mr ELIAS KAPAVORE – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.
My question is directed to the Honourable Prime Minister Firstly, I would like to acknowledge the visit made by our Prime Minister last year to Sinivit Local-Level Government in Pomio District for the commissioning of the Warangoi hydro power plant which had not been fully operating for some years.

1 Mr Deputy Speaker, during this visit, the Warangoi Hydro Landowner Association presented one of their demands to the Prime Minister in regards to the resource which PNG Power is using.
PNG Power has been using hydro power from that area to supply electricity to Gazelle, Kokopo, Rabaul and parts of Pomio.

However, my people have not been receiving any form of incentives or services for almost 30 years.

Since the Prime Minister is aware of the petition and promised my people that he would respond to them, can the Government or PPL give an amount of K5 million to them for the use of their resources for more than 30 years?

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.


Mr JAMES MARAPE – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I would like to thank the Member for Pomio for his question.

Firstly, I would like to also thank the people of the Warangoi area, especially those who own land along the Warangoi hydro power plant.

For 30 years, they have been very supportive and have demonstrated to most parts of our country that you can allow developments to take precedence and work with governments to honour its commitments.
When I arrived for the commissioning of the Warangoi hydro power plant, they peacefully presented a petition to me.

I took it back with me and I have been working with the Minister for State-owned Enterprises as well as the Kumul Consolidated Holdings and it is now part of this year’s workplan for which K5 million has been approved.
02/02 We could not find money elsewhere last year because it was not captured in last year’s work plan but based on that commitment, we have now put it as part of this workplan.

Mr Deputy Speaker, through the Chair, let me announce firstly to the Member for Pomio and our people that the K5 million has been captured in this year’s workplan.
A couple of nights ago I had a work meeting with KCH chairman and his managing director, and part of our discussions was for us to settle that quickly because the workplan was approved two Cabinet meetings ago.

Within this month or the next, the Minister responsible, the KCH team and PNG Power will visit the landowners to officially handover the K5 million cheque.

So, please convey my greatest appreciation for their patience for over thirty years.
They have shown goodwill to allow Warangoi hydro power plant to function over the years and it is only fair that we honor them as soon as possible.

2 It should be this month or early next month.

Whenever it is available, we will let you know.

Establish Credit Guarantee Corporation Mr RICHARD MARU – Mr Deputy Speaker, my questions are directed to the Prime Minister.

Before I ask my question, I would like to thank the Prime Minister for his passion and support towards the SME sector in Papua New Guinea.
My questions are in relation to the Credit Guarantee Corporation of Papua New Guinea.

As a brief background, economies of Malaysia and Taiwan are basically powered by the SME sector and the growth of that sector is because of an important element called the Credit Guarantee Corporation where most of the citizens are funded.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Member, sorry to interrupt you but due to the problem of the earpiece, I did not hear to whom you directed your question.
Mr RICHARD MARU – My questions are directed to the Prime Minister.

Mr Sam Basil – Point of Order!

With due respect to the Member, since the question is in relation to SME, it would be appropriate to ask the Minister responsible for SME.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Deputy Prime Minister, the Member has the discretion to ask anyone whether it be the Prime Minister or Minister responsible so I will not entertain your point of order.
It is, however, up to the Prime Minister to state if the minister responsible can respond.

Honourable Member, you may continue with your question but before you do so, I just want to let you know that when the Chair is making a ruling on a point of order, you have to resume your seat and wait till you are being called.

You may now continue to ask your question.

Mr RICHARD MARU – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.


We are about to go into the 2022 General Elections and I have been constantly asking these questions.

(1) Will the Government fund the establishment of the Credit Guarantee Corporation?

(2) Can the Prime Minister launch the corporation before we go into the elections?

3 I would like the Prime Minister to inform Parliament, the people of Papua New Guinea.

The Bank of Papua New Guinea will be administering the corporation.
Is this Government committed and will it provide equity funding?

If so, the Governor can go ahead and organize the launching, so that we can get the corporation established and our people can borrow and continue to grow the SME sector in Papua New Guinea.

Mr JAMES MARAPE – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I appreciate the questions from our brother leader, the Member for Yangoru-Sausia, on the Credit Guarantee Corporation.

03/02 We have not embarked on this as yet.


The Member has been raising this important issue for some time now.

I think the Minister for Commerce and Industry and the Treasurer have looked into this one and if time permits, they can respond in this meeting or the next on what we would be doing.

But certainly not to downplay the issue on the credit guarantee scheme, let me take this opportunity to also indicate that we have been working on a similar program.
It is a direct intervention on credit to support lenders, especially major lending banks such as BSP and our state lending institution, the National Development Bank (NDB), in the SME funding for them to use as security and for our SMEs to go and access cheaper credit facility.

The BSP program has been working now for the second year in a row.
We have given another K100 million and they have been lending money; not just the K100 million that we’ve been giving but the additional that they have been able to mobilize and SMEs have been lining up at BSP trying to access credit facility.

But the independent partnership with the Central Bank in as far as the Credit Guarantee Scheme is concerned our Government has not looked into deeply as yet.

But both the Treasurer and the Commerce Minister have been tasked to look into this one.
For all SMEs who are in search for credit facility, I would point to BSP right now.

We are working with BSP and NDB to refine the process so that the collateral required and lending requirements are softened to ensure SMEs have easy access to these credit funds to maintain liquidity in the business to keep them running.

Therefore, Mr Deputy Speaker, through you, I make a note from this question, the need for us to look into this Credit Guarantee Scheme.

4 Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.


I wish to direct my series of questions to the Prime Minister.

My questions are in relation to corrupt practices within the Forestry Department by a former Forestry Minister.

Mr Deputy Speaker, each month, approximately 50-60 shipments of logs from Papua New Guinea go to export markets overseas.

My district is one of the largest - Mr James Marape– Point of Order!
With respect to the Opposition Leader’s right to ask questions – and I stand to be corrected - the Standing Orders does not allow for us to make innuendos, inferences or accuse a member of Parliament in a manner in which he has raised his point.

I stand to be corrected but if the Deputy Speaker can assist this Parliament and make a ruling so that he can ask his question in a manner that is appropriate.

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.


Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Prime Minister, your Point of Order is in order.

Honourable Opposition Leader, I will ask you to withdraw the statement and rephrase your questions to the Prime Minister.

Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, let me put it this way.

Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish to raise questions in relation to corrupt practices by a former minister in the Prime Minister’s Government.
Or let me put it this way, Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish to point out corrupt practices in the Forestry Department.

Each month, approximately 50-60 shipments of logs from Papua New Guinea go to export markets.

My district is one of the largest log export districts in the country.

04/02 Last year while a total of 700 shipments went out from across the country, Vanimo-Green River District never received a single toea, if not nothing from the log export development levy.
Log export development levy is about K8 per cubic for every shipment of logs out of the country.

And, I’m not talking about the 50 per cent log export tax, I’m talking about log export development levy of K8 per cubic that is intended to go straight into the log export districts and provinces for infrastructure development within those districts and provinces.
5 Mr Deputy Speaker, this particular log export development levy funds have been misused and misappropriated in Forestry to entice Members of Parliament who remain within Government and no single log export districts have received those funds.

Mr Speaker, just like the proceeds from the royalties of oil, gas and mining in every mining province and town, the log export districts never received those funds.
We hear about K80 million being given to Southern Highlands and another K120 million to Hela Province.

That’s their royalty, they are entitled to it.

Same as the log export development levy, it should go to the log export districts and provinces in the country.

Last week I read about K3 million being given to the Enga Provincial Hospital from Fisheries.

How about the hospitals in fishing provinces?


Enga Province received about K500 million in the National Budget and yet we are giving them money from the Fisheries Department.

The same is happening to log export development levy.

Mr Deputy Speaker, K500 000 has been charged for a signing of a log export permit.

K500 000 for a log export permit to be signed.

Logging companies have been held at ransom to pay to a particular person for his own fundraising or for fundraising for his own political party.
But the monies have been raised.

Mr Allan Bird – Point of Order!

Mr Deputy Speaker, I am happy about the question from the Opposition Leader but if he wants to ask his questions, he should go ahead and ask it without involving other people or other political parties.

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

If my good Governor of the greater Sepik is concerned, then maybe one of the members of his party is involved then I am sorry.

But I have to ask a question.


Mr James Marape – Point of Order!

We are in the house of respect, dignity and decorum.

Everyone is entitled to ask but you can’t make innuendos and inferences.

You can’t make sarcastic statements.

Just get straight to the question, ask the question, and we will make the response.

Mr Clerk, maintain decorum in the House for once and the manner in which we ask questions.

6 Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER - Thank you, Hounourable Prime Minister.

Your Point of Order is in order.


Opposition leader, I once again ask you to get to your question.

You have already raised your point.

Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I understand that the logging companies were expected to pay.

Mr Don Polye – Point of Order!

Mr Deputy Speaker, with due respect, I understand the points raised by the Opposition Leader, but he mentioned that the Ministry or the Department of Fisheries gave some money to Enga Provincial Government.
05/02 Two weeks ago, I was in the Assembly of Enga Provincial Government passing the Budget and we did not see any money from Fisheries coming in a s revenue of Enga Provincial Government.

The Leader of Opposition has to withdraw that because the books do not show that record.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Member for Kandep, your point of order is out of order.

You seem to be debating the question that has been raised and I think your point is taken by the Opposition Leader.
It is only referring to those funds being given out and the same thing applies to Forest Minister so we cannot debate it.

Opposition Leader, this is the third time I am asking you to refrain from debating and go straight to your question.

I don’t want to hear another point of order on your question.

Mr BELDEN NAMAH – I’m getting straight to the point but everybody seems to be Forestry – Investigate Corruption jumping up and down.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I understand that logging companies were expected to pay in cash or part of the proceeds remitted to an account in Singapore and, two other banks in Indonesia and Cayman Islands.

Mr Deputy Speaker, by my calculation, from the 700 shipments, that particular person would have made up to K300 - 400 million.

7 (1) Can the Prime Minister confirm or deny that the log export development levies have been milked by his government?
(2) Can the Prime Minister confirm whether or not he has any information?

I am happy to help with the information to investigate these corrupt practices in Forestry.

I wish to highlight here that US$10 per cubic has been charged for kwila logs which is the hardwood.

The premium price is about K35 per cubic.

Up to 1.5 million cubic meters of logs have been exported per year.

I know all of you have phones in front of you so make a calculation and you find out how much this particular person has made.
Mr Sam Basil – Point of Order!

I am very happy that the Opposition Leader has mentioned a few bank accounts and I believe you have made your investigation and you got information there.

While you have the Floor, can you give the account numbers?

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Deputy Prime Minister, I will rule your point of order out of order.

The Opposition Leader is only informing the Prime Minister that he has the information and if the information is required, he will provide it.
That is the point he has made.

Opposition Leader, you may complete your question but make it short.

Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Thank you, I am trying to make it short but they are continuing to interject.

Mr Deputy Speaker, K8 per cubic has been charged for other hardwoods, US$8 per cubic and US$3 per cubic for mix pieces.

I have the bank account here in the series of questions that I have.
All I’m asking is can the Prime Minister institute an investigation into Forestry Department on this particular bank account and have this matter dealt with without delay?

Mr Deputy Speaker, we are leaving the Department of Forestry in the hands of perpetrators, denying these provinces and districts where logs come out from their rightful money.

06/02 It is the same as paying landowners of Hela, Southern Highlands and Enga provinces the proceeds from oil, gas, gold and copper.
We in the forest sector provinces deserve that money.

8 Mr Deputy Speaker, whilst they are demanding that I produce the bank accounts, I ask leave of the Chair to tender this question containing the bank accounts.

The Prime Minister can have that privy of checking these bank account and get his authorities to investigate.

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Mr James Marape – Point of Order!

Mr Deputy Speaker, is he asking a question or moving a motion?
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Prime Minister, if the member wishes to seek leave of the Chair then I will ask the Floor if the motion is granted.

Mr BELDEN NAMAH (Vanimo) – I ask leave of Parliament to table documents in line with my questions to the Prime Minister.

Objections being raised, leave not granted.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Members leavee is not granted.

I will now ask the Prime Minister to answer the questions.

Mr JAMES MARAPE – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, you’ve made a ruling.
Mr Davis Steven – Point of Order!

Mr Deputy Speaker, you have exercised the discretion of the Speaker.

In accordance with Standing Orders, you asked for a response of the House for those who say ‘aye’ but you didn’t ask for ‘noes’.

And then you ruled that the House refused to grant leave.

Mr Deputy Speaker, this is a blunder of the highest order, with greatest respect.
The Deputy Prime Minister asked the Honourable Opposition Leader for this information to be presented to this House in keeping with the decorum of this House and, Mr Deputy Speaker, you did the right thing.

But you asked for the ‘ayes’ and the Members responded with ‘ayes’, but you didn’t ask for ‘noes.’ The records will show this.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Members, before I entertain any other Points of Order, let me make a clarification on the matter raised by good Member for Esa’ala.
9 The Opposition Leader has sought leave of the Chair.

The Chair then made a decision upon seeking leave from the House.

The majority in voice said ‘yes’ and, therefore, I made a ruling in favor of the ‘ayes.’ 07/02 According to the advice, it is the Chair who asks the Floor whether leave is granted and when leave is granted the decision is final.

If there is interjection, the Chair will call for those against the motion.

But since the majority on the Floor accepted the motion, the ruling still stands.
The Point of Order raised by the Member points out what ruling should be made after.

This is the answer that I gave and this is only on the Point of Order which I cannot entertain to reverse the decision that the House already made.

It’s a point of order raised to the House.

The decision has already been made which the House has agreed upon and the Chair has granted that.

Leave was not granted and there was no interjection.
(Members interjecting) Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Members, please resume your seats.

Allow me to make clarifications on the issue being raised.

When the Chair asked the House, the House had said no.

There was interjection where there was a no, therefore, leave was not granted.

The correction is; leave was not granted.

The Chair, therefore, asked the Prime Minister to go ahead and answer the questions.

Mr Belden Namah – Point of Order!

Your question was very clear.


You moved a motion without notice to seek support for me to tender this document.

And the Floor responded positively.

Hence it is proper that I tender these questions without notice.

You cannot overrule now because the Floor has already ruled in my favour, according to the motion.

So, Mr Deputy Speaker, you just have to accept the fact that I have to tender these questions without notice.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER - Honourable Members, the advice I got was that there has been a suggestion of a no, and I have already made the decision, therefore, I will not entertain any more Points of Order.

10 I will ask the Prime Minister to go ahead and answer the questions.

Mr Belden Namah – Point of order!

This is the peoples’ house, it’s not your house and is not my house, it belongs to the people and the ruling is very clear.

What are we hiding from here!


Mr Deputy Speaker, I just need an investigation on the appropriate bank accounts as requested for by the Deputy Prime Minister.

What is wrong with that!

What are we hiding here!

Just accept it!

Let’s go for it, come on!

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER - Honourable Members, can you all resume your seats, I’m trying my best to correct what has happened today.

If there is confusion, I would like to ask all of you to respect the Chair’s decision upon the advice I took.
Mr Bryan Kramer – Point of Order!

Mr Deputy Speaker, to provide some clarity, leave was sort from the Chair.

Although I respect the Chair’s decision, he didn’t make the decision whether to grant leave or to refuse it.

In this case the Chair not making the decision, even though the question was put to the Chair, the Chair then made another decision to put it to the leave of Parliament.

That is where the confusion lies.


08/02 With respect to the Deputy Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has raised a number of statements without using the word allegations.

Now these are serious allegations but unfortunately, he made statement of facts of corrupt practices, innuendos against individuals without saying these are mere allegations because they are allegations at this stage, so I am correcting the record of Parliament.
Mr Deputy Speaker, we had discussions with the Prime Minister that the Government side is happy to accept this and call a vote either by seeking leave from the Parliament by saying is leave granted, those in favor say ayes and those against say no.

But the point that I want to make is that the correct procedure for the Opposition Leader to seek these matters of criminal investigation raising serious allegations is to file a complaint at the Court House.
This is not the House of Courts or criminal jurisdictions.

Uproar in the Chamber!

11 Mr BRYAN KRAMER – Wait!

Mr Deputy Speaker, the appropriate forum will be to file a complaint with the fraud squad and the relevant agencies.

And if the Opposition Leader seeks to table it then he can seek leave of the Parliament, then we can basically make a ruling on whether leave is granted or not.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Thank you Honourable Minister for your point of order.
I have already made a decision on the Chair and I stand by the decision.

Therefore, leave is not granted and I will ask the Prime Minister to reply to the question.

Mr JAMES MARAPE – Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker.

Every moment is a learning experience and in the last five minutes or so we have learnt a lot of issues as far as parliamentary procedures are concerned.

I appreciate the questions raised by the Opposition Leader.
He has every right on behalf of our country to ask opposing questions for the good of our country.

Unfortunately, the process in which the paper was to be tabled was not allowed to proceed through.

Let me encourage the Opposition Leader that there are other avenues available for his questions to be tabled.

You should have sent a copy to me and the Deputy Speaker.
If the allegations are serious and solid evidence exists, then, we are not here in the business to protect anyone or corrupt practices in our country.

The inference on illegal activities in Forestry Department has been going on for many years.

Forestry is the sector that continues to attract criticisms for corruption.

There have been many forestry ministers before and the current Forest Minister the sector is always susceptible to allegations of corruption.
I have been around for the last 15 years; I am yet to see an evidence based report whether in Parliament or through the legislative processes of corruption in our country.

I commend the Opposition Leader for indicating to us that he has got evidence there.

I assure this Parliament that if evidence is solid then we are not here to hide anyone for that matter.

But competent process must have a handle on these allegations.
We have had a and competent process that are sanctioned by law in this country since 1975.

Many times we don’t seem to involve this processes, we come to Parliament to make allegations and we leave it at that and both sides of the House take responsibility because no one seriously advance those allegations or matters raised here to the correct or competent authorities in police or Ombudsman Commission and Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) with IRC in tax matters.
12 These are competent process if correctly mounted allegations will carry its cost and if these allegations are correct then those responsible for it will face the law and 09/02 I commend the Opposition Leader for being able to raise an issue that he felt in the forestry sector.

On record he is very familiar with the forestry sector, needless to remind the country.

Being not just the former Forestry Minister, but more importantly a leader from a constituency that has substantial forest resource.
I understand a place in his heart where he is coming from in as far as those questions are concerned.

He has raised the issue and it is a public knowledge now and whatever paper he has, I am here to take that paper from you through a formal letter you sent to me.

The questions as a formal letter to the Speakers office.

But more importantly, an inquiry or a request for competent authorities to investigate will come from me to them also.

But, as a leader of the country, you are entitled.


You have gone before police and Ombudsman Commission on many matters on issues you felt that need to be raised.

These constitutional offices are always available anytime and of course through the public media.

When you step outside of this House, the media is entitled to know allegations you have raised.
And you know when allegations raised are correct, they will be sustained and the process will run its course to deal with the alleged perpetrators of such offence if they do exist.

Let me also take this time to tell our citizens, our country and this Parliament that Facebook is not a place to mount your complaint and let it rest there.

Facebook is not a place of reference for new issues to raise to government or to the public that relate to policy matters.
Facebook is a platform of opinions not in just Papua New Guinea but globally.

If genuine and legitimate complaints are mounted on Facebook; the authors of those complaints, please, the police commissioner and the office of police are there all the time to pick up.

You can make a fuss on the social media, after you raise the complaint with the police commissioner.

Sir Puka Temu – Point of Order!

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

The Prime Minister has already answered the Opposition Leader’s question.
Time is running out, so stop wasting time talking about Facebook.

Some of you are addicted to it.

(Members laughing) 13 Sir Puka Temu - So, please can we allow others to ask questions because I have a supplementary question.

Mr JAMES MARAPE – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I respect the Point of Order that was made.

I will just be quick on a related matter.


Those who were in the forestry sector if you know it is illegal to give a Minister, managing director or a forestry employee some funds that is not prescribed in law and you are supporting it, you are also guilty of corruption yourself.

Who allowed you?

What law allowed you if someone is asking you to give extra money?

If that was given perhaps in the past, you are a perpetrator of corruption in our country.

You have proliferated corruption by remaining silent.
If someone had requested extra money and you gave it while remaining silent, you are a perpetrator and proliferator of corruption.

Police is there, go and report.

James Marape, the Prime Minster, is not police.

So, take your evidences and present them to the police.

If the companies continue to behave in that manner while you are keeping silent, you are contributing to the corruption rate in this country so, we have to address this.

The Forestry Minister today is not the first Forestry Minister.
There have been many before him and this sector has been filled with allegations.

Let us move beyond such allegations into actually establishing those corruptions.

10/02 I will just point this out to everyone who makes allegations of corruption, bring it with your evidence to the police and make it publicly known to all of us.

Let me conclude bearing in mind time that Sir Puka has raised.
On the LEDL funds, let me apologize that it has not come to all districts and provinces, these are funds entitled by law and I will give assurance that the current forest Minister and the department to check the status of the LEDL funds and those who are eligible must receive the funds irrespective of which part of the House they are in.
Supplementary Question Logging Levy Funds Sir PUKA TEMU -Mr Deputy Speaker, I think the Prime Minister just answered the question, because I was going to ask the Prime Minister to table, through the newly reappointed 14 Minister for Forest, the amount of funds in the LEDL account and how it was distributed.

I think the Parliament deserves that information because that is the thrust of the issue.
And we believe that LEDL funds were paid to districts and provinces where there is no logging activity is present.

And those of us who have forest projects did not receive any as yet.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honourable Member, I think the Prime Minister already made the response clear that he will direct the Forest minister and the department to payout whatever is yet to be paid.

And I will not entertain the supplementary that you have raised.
I think we have another supplementary from the Member for Kiriwina -Goodenough.

Supplementary Question LEDL Guidelines Mr DOUGLAS TOMURIESA – Mr Deputy Speaker, the issue here is the LEDL and I hear the Opposition Leader is very loud and clear but the question that I would like to ask the Prime Minister, is that we have a very clear guideline in regards to LEDL and that is the guideline as I am the author of that guideline and I presented it here.

(1) Is the guideline still in place?


(2) If it is still in place, why can’t we follow the guidelines?

This is the crunch of the issue at hand and if it is paid outside of the LEDL guidelines then we have a problem but if it is still in place and NEC has not changed it then good, let it remain as it is and allow the LEDLs to be paid and guided by the guidelines.

Mr JAMES MARAPE – Mr Deputy Speaker, LEDL guidelines have not been amended since we took office and it still remains as it is.
Districts and provinces which are supposed to be receiving these funds so that infrastructure and services for logging areas are attended to should be receiving them soon.

So, I give assurance for us to have a report back to the nation through Parliament or through a medium as to how the LEDL funds have been used, to be put to public in due course.

Mr JOE LERA -Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker for the opportunity given to me, firstly I would like to ask the Deputy Speaker to extend Question Time.
(voting in progress to extend question time.)

15 11/02 SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS – EXTENDED TIME FOR QUESTIONS Motion (by Mr Peter Tsiamalili) agreed to – That so much of the Standing Orders be suspended as would prevent question time this day being extended by a further 20 minutes.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – The Honorable Governor of Bougainville, you have the support of the majority of the House so the question time is extended for 20 minutes.

You may ask your question.


Mr PETER TSIAMALILI – Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker and all my fellow leaders of Papua New Guinea for allowing us to extend our question time to give us the opportunity to ask some very important questions.

Mr Deputy Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister.

I acknowledge the good work of the Minister for Climate Change, Honorable Wera Mori has taken steps in addressing our issues related to climate change and his recent attendance in Scotland.
Honorable Prime Minister, while we are putting together our mitigating programs to address the collaboration with other development partners and nations of the world, I would like to ask together with the Bougainville Affairs Minister, we all know that the king tide is hitting our low line atolls.

My people in Bougainville have not seen any action take place.
In the last three weeks, our islands, namely Fead, Mortlock and Carteret islands have been devastated by the king tides and their gardens have all been damaged and are under water.

Today, they will continue to suffer and cry out for support.

A lot has been said in this House including conferences that we have attended all over the world.

But all our atoll islands in Bougainville are in a very critical condition now as we speak.
Is the Prime Minister aware and how can you assure the people of Bougainville on the action that you will be taking to help the people of Bougainville?

Thank you Deputy Speaker Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER – Honorable Prime Minister, before I ask you to respond to the question.
Honorable members, we asked the House to extend for 20 minutes, therefore any 16 questions that you raise, just get straight to the question, and those who are in respond to the questions, so that we can enough questions within this 20 minutes.

Thank you, Prime Minister you can answer the question.

Mr JAMES MARAPE – Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Let me firstly acknowledge the question by the Member for Bougainville.
We do extend our sympathies and our thoughts are with them those who are currently under the king tide that has splashed through the gardens and the place of residence.

I was shown some photos from the island and its quite emotional to see people in those small islands being affected.

You have our support.

The Government will find some assistance immediately to give support to the Fead, Carteret and Mortlock islanders who are facing this disaster.
But in the long term going forward, we must find a local solution immediately.

Whilst we work with our international climate change support, that is something in the medium term and in to the future.

But locally and domestically, as a Government, we have to find a solution for our people who are exposed immediately to this climate change adversity especially the small low line atoll islands where there is no additional space for food gardening or water like the Mortlock, Carteret or Fead.
We will offer them immediate support as well as for the current disaster as well as the immediate need for them to be looked after until we can find a solution for that.

Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker 12/02 Mr JAMES MARAPE – Point of Order!

We will work in partnership with the Government of the Autonomous Region of Bougainville and the office of the Member for Bougainville.

Thank you.

Supplementary Question Gulf Province – King Tide Mr CHRIS HAIVETA – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.
My question to the Prime Minister is related to my province.

King tide is not just in the atolls.

In the low line areas of my province and the deltas especially, and on the coast, we have 25 villages that I have been visiting for the last three weeks that are facing similar problems.

What I have noticed over the years, Prime Minister, is that we seem to come to the aid after the event.
17 Prime Minister, can our Government get policies and programs in place in consultation with the provinces so that we can save these communities instead of waiting until they are covered and then we come later and it takes a long time for those communities to recover.
So, Prime Minister, my questions are very simple, can you work with the provinces, call a meeting with the climate change minister, the works minister, the transport minister and those responsible for infrastructures in marine provinces so that we can make attempt to have workable programs that can save these villages.

To move a village from one area to another is very difficult.
To move even one section of that village and put it amongst other clans is also difficult, because clans will not mix and they will not allow other clans to settle on their land.

So, this is a very big problem, Prime Minister, for my people in Gulf and I believe right along the coastal areas of Papua New Guinea, including the atolls.

Thank you.

Mr JAMES MARAPE – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.


I take note of the recommendations proposed by the Governor of Gulf Province, and the need for us to have a team to look into this matter.

I can confirm in my last trip flying back from Tapuna in the Baimuru area.

If you fly over Kerema, you could see those land being eaten away by the rise of sea level into our lands and shorelines.
This is a problem that we need to have a handle on and address and it is suggested that the inter-departmental, as well as sub-national government working team come together to look into this issue.

Its consistent with my view, that our whole country domestically must have a policy that is geared towards addressing these issues in the first instance.

First priority remains for the low-lying atolls, simply on the basis that they do not have extra lands to move to.
Then we can look into all the other problems that we need to address in as far as those who are exposed to rise in sea level and climate change.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr JAMES DONALD – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker for recognising the people of North Fly and thank you for the opportunity.

My question is directed to the Minister for Petroleum.

I want him to respond to my series of questions.

This is in regards to the P’nyang Gas Signing agreement yesterday.
Mr BRYAN KRAMER (Madang – Minister for Justice and Attorney General) – Point of Order.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

18 13/02 While I note that the good Member for North Fly appears to be raising a question to the Minister for Petroleum concerning a proceeding that he filed.

However, it will be inappropriate for the plaintiff, in this case himself file proceedings and then come to Parliament and raise questions on those proceedings that the court is yet to make a determination on.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Mr SPEAKER – Thank you, Honourable Minister.

I just took the Chair and did not listen to the content of the questions raised by the Member of North Fly so I rule your point of order out of order.

I will listen to it again and if the questions are related to the court order, then I can make a ruling here.

Honourable Member, go ahead with your question.

Mr JAMES DONALD – I want to make a statement and also want to ask a question concerning the gas agreement signing yesterday.
Mr SPEAKER – Honourable Members, it’s Question Time so if you want to make a statement to clarify your question, then be brief.

Don’t prolong your statement, it’s not time for statements.

P’nyang Gas Agreement Mr JAMES DONALD – Thank you, Mr Speaker.

The signing of P’nyang gas agreement dated 22 February 2022, in my view is the blackest day for Papua New Guinea and the people of Western province.
On that note, this Government sold our PNG’s sovereignty to the multinational company in signing the gas agreement.

The Government is saying to the people of Papua New Guinea in this manner, let me quote ‘these are your resources but if this is politically convenient for me to ensure that they are in power, they will change the laws so that they can sell it for nothing to multinational’.
We have just witnessed a lot of amendments taking place and they don’t care about the sovereignty of our country as well.

They don’t care for the laws of this land and they don’t care that it is the peoples’ resources.

What I’m trying to say is, shame on them for signing the gas agreement yesterday.

They sold the birth-right of our country.


19 Mr Speaker, I have asked a series of questions many times to the Prime Minister and the Minister responsible but they haven’t responded to those questions regarding P’nyang.

I’ve been still waiting ever since.

If he has responded to me in writing, it must have gotten lost somewhere.

However, despite the court orders yesterday, the government has gone ahead to sign the gas agreement and my questions are: (1).
Do they respect the laws of this country by signing that gas agreement when we already proceeded with the court orders?

(2).

Why does the Government rush to sign the gas agreement even without consultation with the people of North Fly and Western province?

Why are you rushing?

We were not informed.

(3).

Can the Minister inform us; on what legal basis did he have a right to sit with ExxonMobil to sign the gas agreement?

The Minister knows that the license for PRF3 has expired six years ago.
The Minister is well aware of this.

Even the Prime Minister and PAB are aware.

The people are aware and why did they go-ahead to sign the gas agreement?

(4).

Did the Petroleum Advisory Board (PAB) approve the APDL lodged by ExxonMobil?

Mr Speaker, the Minister is aware that there was a APDL before and ExxonMobil lodged it but it was expired so they refused it already.

Did the PAB approve the application for the license?

You need to answer.

Mr Bryan Kramer – Point of Order!


The questions you are asking are the same questions that were being raised in the court and the same questions are raised in this proceeding against the State and the Minister concerned.

Mr Speaker, the questions are out of order as it relates to matters before the court.

Thank you.

Mr SPEAKER – Honourable Minister, I am not aware of whatever matters that have been raised in court.

I don’t have any information regarding that.


14/02 If the questions asked by the honourable Member relates to the opinion of law, then the Minister will not answer those questions because Sanding Order doesn’t allow that.

But for 20 other questions that are not related to the opinion of law, the Minister can answer those questions.

I rule your Point of Order as out of Order and allow the honourable Member to ask his question.
Mr JAMES DONALD – Can the Minister confirm or deny that the gas agreement that was signed yesterday is null and void because on what basis will ExxonMobil sign it?

They have broken this law as the PAB approve it.

Mr Pila Niningi – Point of Order!

With respect to the Member concern, the question now being raised is the very subject before the court regarding the expiry of license.

He cannot use Parliament to raise the questions.

He has to go back to the court to solve it.

Thank you.
Thank you.

(Members interjecting) Mr SPEAKER – Honourable Minister, resume your seat before I address your Point of Order.

The Honourable Member of North Fly the other members and Ministers of Parliament raising Point of Order because they believe that what you are raising now is the same questions that you have raised before the court.
And if it is for sure that you have raised those questions before the court then I will not allow you to raise those same question on the Floor of Parliament because it’s a matter of the court now.

You need to clarify if these are the same questions you have raised before the court?

Mr JAMES DONALD – Thank you, Mr Speaker, none of them knows the legal proceeding of what is before the court.

This is not the questions that’s before the court.

How do they know?
How do they know?

It’s just speculation, it’s what they assume.

Mr SPEAKER – I will allow the honourable Member to ask his questions but honourable Minister anything that relates to legal opinion, the Standing Order doesn’t allow you to answer the question but apart from other questions you may answer.

21 Mr JAMES DONALD – I have three last questions.

I know that signing took place yesterday (5) Can the Minister tell the people of North Fly, Western Province and country, when will development occur?
The development will occur tomorrow or postpone to 2030 or another 40 or 10years’ time.

Because if you say it will commence in 2030, then indeed you have broken the law of this country and sold this country.

(6) Is it true that Prime Minister announced 63 per cent share of the country?

Can the minister tell us the project owners, host district, province and country as a whole?

(7) How much will we benefit out of this 63 per cent and when will you tell us the commercial terms and financial implications?
Mr Speaker, many requests from Western Province was before the negotiation and we pleaded, but the minister and the Government failed.

One of our requests was for a standalone LNG in the province.

We have asked and they have failed.

Can the Minister answer what they have captured in that agreement for Western Province?

15/02 My people of Western Province are all ears and they want to know what is in stock for them.
Mr KERENGA KUA – Mr Speaker, we will try and restrict our answers so that we do not encroach on sub judice on matters that are before the courts.

Mr Speaker, this is a very important issue and I am very happy to take any number of questions so that we can clarify this project so that everybody can adopt this and take ownership because this project is for the country, for the provincial government in Western and our landowners there as well.
So if there is any uncertainty about anything at all, I am happy to address them all.

I have summarized his questions to about 10 and let me address them one by one.

In regards to court orders, of course, we all respect court orders.

Before court orders are implemented it has to be served and brought to the notice of those people affected.

Yesterday when we proceeded with the signing, we were not served with the originating summons and 22 we were not served with the order.
So normal Government business proceeded yesterday.

The Prime Minister announced the signing about a week ago.

Mr James Donald – Point of Order!

Mr Speaker, my point of order is that the court order was obtained timely before the signing and they were served electronically.

Also there was a party, ExxonMobil, they received signed and while I was rushing to the Government House, I was knocked back by heavy presence of the police force yesterday.
Mr SPEAKER – Honourable Member I will rule your point out of order and I will rule that response from the Minister too that the Honourable Member was not talking about a court order in his questions.

So don’t talk about the court order but answer the questions that the Member asked.

In that way, all will be in order here on the Floor.

Mr KERENGA KUA -Mr Speaker, as the Member was speaking, I was taking notes on my writing pad.
He mentioned that the Government had no respect for the court order so I am trying to explain that.

We respect court orders and if it was served, upon receiving, we will acknowledge receipt of it, but in this case, we never received a court order, Government business proceeded yesterday.

Mr Speaker, in regards to why the hurry?

No consultation?
No consultation?

Those questions are related and I must say here that there is a lot of things that Government has to do and there are procedures that the Government has to follow and consultation follows within those prescribed boundaries.

There, are mandated leaders that we consult and at all material times the Governor for Western Province has always made himself available for consultation.
When the Honourable James Donald was in Government, he always made himself available and infact he was also a Member of the State Negotiating Team and he was aware of all the steps ttaken up to the point of his departure.

Since then, he disengaged himself with the State Negotiating Team.

So that is where the vacuum arose.

Mr James Donald – Point of Oder!

Mr Speaker, if my points of order are annoying I apologise.
What I want to point out here is that, the Minister continues to mislead Parliament because of the fact that he never consulted my people and administration on any engagement.

He only approached once when the first negotiations failed, that’s it.

After that there was no consultation.

So, he should not lie on this Floor.

23 Mr KERENGA KUA – Mr Speaker, I can only talk about what I know, heard and seen and this is what I have seen.
There were several occasions when he attended the Ministerial Committee on the P’nyang Gas negotiations.

Although he was not a minister at that time, the Prime Minister in his discretion made sure that as the Member on the ground, he was co-opted into the Ministerial Committee and he came in and in most occasion he also brought along with him his lawyers who also made submissions in the early stages.

16/02 So, there is record and we were happy for his participation at that time.
I have explained the rest already.

There was no hurry to sign this project agreement, Mr Speaker, this project negotiation is perhaps the longest negotiation in the history of any project negotiations in Papua New Guinea, whether it be mining or petroleum.

It took exactly two years, three months.


It was a slow deliberate process that ensured that we as the elected representative on the Floor of this Parliament, being responsible for our people’s interest especially in this petroleum area; achieved our peoples dreams and vision to maximise this stage in the petroleum area.
So, it took that long and inside this two years, three months, we walked away from the negotiations and suspended for six months because we were miles apart at that time and we felt that it was not the best time and deal for this country and the State suspended negotiations for six months.
It was only after six months that ExxonMobil came back and asked to reactivate negotiation because they believed they have now moved far closer to the stage requirements that negotiation reopened and the outcome is what we have achieved.

So, it wasn’t a hurried process and I assure the nation that this was a slow deliberate hard fought negotiation process that took two years and three months.

It started on 15 November 2019 and completed on 22 February 2022.

Did I have the legal authority to sign?


Yes, I did and the Oil and Gas Act gives the Minister the authority to sign and that’s exactly what happened.

And in other agreements in the past Ministers for Petroleum have signed and the Oil and Gas Act clearly state that.
The questions of the expiry, the pending application for Petroleum Development License, the legality of the P’nyang Gas Agreement, even though I have not seen the summons yet, even now, not even circulated in the social media, I believe that those intended court proceeding center around this question.

24 But because of your ruling, I will have to defer the answers to that question and refer it to the court to answer these questions.
But in a general sense, I want to assure this country that this Government or any other Government is not in the business of breaking its own laws.

I also want to assure everyone that even the investors who will be investing billons of kina and dollars do a complete diligence on the legal security of licenses before they commit to invest.

No one invests billions of kina and dollars without doing a very thorough legal diligence on the security of the licenses.
So, they are satisfied that they are on very solid ground as to their rights on their licenses so this is why they have continued the process of negotiation and so that’s where we are.

And if I said anything more, I would be venturing into the merits of any case before the courts so I will stop here.

But, I assure everybody on all sides, they have done their diligences and are satisfied that we are all on a firm legal footing.
This question about the legality to continue and complete the agreement process has been raised on the Floor of Parliament and I have already answered it.

And this is probably the third time.

One time when I was away, the Prime Minister was asked the question, and he answered it.

And when I came back those written questions were referred to me and I responded in writing already.

But unfortunately, people choose to disregard the answer that were given and continue asking.
This is not a forum because we disagree here as to our own personal opinions.

I think the best forum is to leave it to the court to decide, thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr SPEAKER – Honourable Members question time has lapsed and before we suspended for lunch, I want to clearly state here in the presence of the media, our people and the Members of Parliament, I would like to clarify the Deputy Speakers decision based on the Standing Orders of Parliament.
17/02 Under Standing Order 112, it states, leave of the Parliament or a committee must be granted without any dissention voice.

And I believe there was a dissention voice so, the Deputy Speaker has ruled that the leave was not granted and his decision is in order.

That is Standing Order 112.

If you disagree with that, then, turn to the Standing Orders of Parliament.
25 Sitting suspended from 12.00 noon to 2 p.m. 18/02 REFORMS, PROGRESS AND THE FUTURE – MINISTERIAL STATEMENT – PAPER NOTED Mr IAN LING-STUCKEY (Kavieng-Minister for Treasury) - Mr Speaker, continuing with the Marape-Basil Government's commitment to openness and transparency, I present an economic update.

We believe the elected members deserve such honesty and transparency, we believe the people of PNG, deserve such honesty.
Today I want to provide an economic update focusing on the implementation of the Marape-Basil Government's reform agenda, and the strong growth and Job prospects going forward.
Economic Reform Agenda Update Mr Speaker, there are five key items to cover: first, good news on the continuing Marape- Basil budget repair plan to lower debt and increase investment; second, the vital modernising reforms to our central bank; third, the agreement to a new IMF Staff Monitored Program vital for International credibility; fourth, our on-going discussions on the market concentration levy; and fifth, our cash flow management reforms.
Reforms 1 — Continuing the Budget Repair Program Mr Speaker, there continues to be good news on implementing the Marape-Basil Government's budget repair and reconstruction program commenced back in 2019, there is good news on economic growth, good news on revenue, and good news on expenditure.

Mr Speaker, PNG is indeed heading towards being a K101 billion economy this year.

In the latest IMF analysis of the economy, released this week, they have confirmed the on-going recovery of the PNG economy.
Indeed, the economy did K4 billion better in 2020 than first expected reflecting the success of the "Protecting the budget, Protecting the economy' COVID- 19 response.

In 2021, the economy grew by K7.8 million the second highest increase ever in PNG's history and only surpassed by the start of the PNG LNG exports following years of hard work by our former Grand Chief Somare.

In 2022, building on the gains of 2021, we expect an even slightly larger increase in the economy of K7.9 billion.
19/02 26 These increases will bring jobs and higher incomes.

We are recovering from the worst global pandemic in a century, which we’ve all heard so often.

And these aren't the fake numbers of the previous government.

These are the endorsed figures from the IMF.

There is also good news on revenues, we need revenues to pay for our schools our health centres and build our roads.

Based on latest advice, I am pleased that tax and customs revenues are expected to exceed the 2021 budget forecasts.
Once again, the Marape-Basil Government is delivering on its budget repair credentials.

Mr Speaker, on top of this good news, we have recently heard of the good news on the agreement on the much better fiscal terms of the P'nyang LNG project yesterday at Government House.

This was achieved through hard negotiations by our committed Minister for Petroleum and Energy and urged on always by our Prime Minister, in line with international best practice.
P'nyang tax revenues had not been built into our long-term revenue forecasts, the much better share of returns coming to PNG really is icing on our country’s revenue cake.

Mr Speaker, I am also pleased that we are a responsible government that is keeping domestic expenditure under control.

In 2020, we were possibly the only country in the world that kept domestic budget expenditures slightly below the original budgeted figure despite absorbing K500 million in COVID-19 support costs.
In 2021, preliminary figures, although still to be confirmed by the Final Budget Outcome next month, is that domestic expenditure has once again come within budget.

Mr Speaker, the combination of strong growth, higher revenues and responsible expenditure controls is good news for our country.

This demonstrates once again the credibility of the Government's budget repair work.

The Marape-Basil government's budget repair work is credible, it is transparent, it is certified by international sources.
This is the pathway forward for PNG and our people.

Reforms 2 - Modernization of the Central Bank Mr Speaker, In December last year, this Parliament unanimously passed historic reforms to modernize our Central Banking Act, I am pleased that the Acting Governor is in place along with an experienced and very well-qualified board.

The benefits of these changes will be seen in the years ahead.
For as highlighted in the Independent Advisory Group's 125-page analysis and report, all was not well with our central 27 bank.

Modernizing reforms were required, and we delivered, with reforms that will increase the independence and accountability and effectiveness of our central bank.
Mr Speaker, let me quote from the IAG report; "The Bank of Papua New Guinea was made Independent to reduce the scope for discretion arising from political interference, but an unintended consequence of the legislation we passed back in 2000 has been to create new scope for discretion or.

arbitrary behavior by the Bank's own decisions. "


20/02 Let me continue quoting, ‘in the course of our contributions and consultations, we heard stories from businesses having to text the Governor, or reach him through an intermediary, in order to request the release of foreign exchange to finance vital imports.

This is not the sort of economy that will serve PNG well.
One where business leaders have to focus on lobbying rather than innovation; and where business success, depends on relationships rather than performance.’ I continue quoting, ‘just as the 2000 Central Banking Act reduced the scope for discretion and arbitrary behaviour by politicians in relation to the Central Bank, so now provisions need to be made to reduce the scope for discretion and arbitrary behaviour by the bank itself.’ Let me provide just one example of these problems from the Independent Advisory Group report.
The so called ‘slack arrangement’ of deficit financing from 2014 to 2017 was almost, certainly illegal.

This was printing money.

As stated in the IAG report, during this period, and I quote, ‘policy measures have been advanced that have had the effect of providing substantial, and in fact, unlimited, assistance to the government to finance its deficit.’ Mr Speaker, this is frightening.
It was supposed to be illegal to do this under the old Act, but the collusion between the former Prime Minister and former Governor meant they both found a loophole.

BPNG holdings of Government Treasury Bills and Inscribed Stock jumped from averaging under K5000 million, from the years 2002 to 2012, to over K3.5 billion by 2017.

K3 billion of printing money, to desperately fund the deep budget deficit, and debt holes, being dug by the former Government.
Let me be specific, and quote some facts that some on social media conveniently try and forget.

In just two years, the former government trashed the responsible budget plans of the previous Grand Chief Somare decade.

PNG collapsed from a balanced budget plan in 2012 to 28 have blown out the deficit to then a record 7.7 per cent of GDP by 2014.

A figure of around about 2 per cent is normally, quite good.

This was the worst budget blowout in the history of our country.
Mr Speaker, such reckless budget mismanagement, meant he was desperate to fund the exploding budget deficit.

So, what did he do?

He turned around and pressured BPNG to pump out the money.

Print money, that is.

This was not Central Bank’s independence as they claimed.

And last month, we had both of his then Chief Secretary, his former Governor of the Bank, cry foul and accuse our government of planning to print money!

21/02 No wonder they sacked themselves.


Mr Speaker, contrary to the misguided and erroneous allegations in social media, we have closed this loophole of the risk of unlimited budget deficit funding.

The new cap if applied in 2016, would have stopped the O'Neil Government printing money, stopped the high inflation and stopped their devaluation of the kina.

Let the truth be known.

Too much deceit and lies from those opposite, and from their cronies.
Not enough recognition of illegal activities such as illegal dividend payments, not enough acknowledgement, that the close relationship between the former Prime Minister, his former Chief of Staff, and their former governor of the central bank, meant, that there was in fact, little independence from the central bank.
Its independence had been destroyed through years of cozy dinners and drinking sessions at the Airways Hotel, overseas junkets-travel, and multiple executive cars, with just a single governor who had absolute, uncontested power with his drinking mate; the boss of the government then.

Mr Charles Abel – Point of Order!

Mr Speaker, we would appreciate the Treasurer would simply speak to the facts and stop casting aspirations and insinuations along the same lines of your point of order during question Time.
Just present the facts and figures.

You are slandering people with no basis to it.

You are just insinuating.

This is unparliamentary, Mr Speaker.

Mr SPEAKER – Honourable Treasurer, the Point of Order from the honourable Member for Alotau is in order so rephrase your statement and present it.

29 Mr IAN LING-STUCKEY – Thank you, Mr Speaker.

I do believe Members sitting opposite will have the opportunity to respond at the appropriate time.
Mr Speaker, I am proud that this Parliament has reformed the governance structure, to stop this happening again.

We have moved from an autocratic approach to a democratic approach.

The new board now independently determines monetary policy.

The discretion on monetary policy is limited by new caps.

The terms of the board members are strongly protected.

Mr Speaker, it was indeed time to modernise the Central Banking Act.
We have modernised the objectives, to give greater importance to the growth of the economy and jobs.

We have given greater importance to the development of the financial system to encourage more funding for SMEs and homeowners.

We have increased the accountability and transparency of the bank's operations.

We have increased the power of the board, moving from autocracy which risked being captured to a more democratic system with protections, in line with international best practice.
These are good reforms.

Reforms 3. International Support for PNG's Reforms 22/02 Our Government and Country Reforms Mr Speaker, I am also pleased to announce, continuing support from the international community for our reform program.

Those on the other side, kept claiming, we would not be able to finance the large budget deficit, caused by the global COVID-19 pandemic and the budget irresponsibility of the former government.
Once again, our economic transparency and economic credibility, have seen us secure major support of AUD$650 million from Australia or about Kl.7billion, and $US150 million from the Asian Development Bank or about K525 million, all received in December.

This allowed us to fully fund the remainder of the 2021 budget in key areas such as Health, Education, infrastructure and road construction.
In addition, in December last year, the IMF agreed to another six-month Staff Monitored Program to support our reforms.

We have already met many of the joint undertakings such as a responsible 2022 Budget, changes to the Tax Administration Act, and reforms to the Central Banking Act.
The IMF is also supporting our reforms targeted at getting Public Service wage growth under control and better cash flow management mentioned above, The Marape-Basil government internationally recognised for our reform work to re-build the economy, to be more inclusive and faster growing than ever before.

Reforms 4 -Market Concentration Levy 30 Mr Speaker, as part of our reforms to close the budget deficit, we increased taxes, on the highly profitable banking and telecommunication parts of the economy.
This was a fairer option, rather than increased taxes on wages or households.

I am astonished, that the country’s trade union leadership, would protest about the relatively tow impact on superannuation pay- outs, rather than the alternative of increased wage taxes!

But I guess the leader of our country's trade union movement, is fundamentally compromised and playing politics- trying to get himself elected into the Kavieng Open seat.

Yes, that's my Seat!


So, calls for my replacement, were never about looking after the interests of our working men and women in this country.

It was simply about promoting the political profile of the TUC Boss, busy campaigning in Kavieng.

Mr SPEAKER – That part of your statement is going onto personal issue with politics.

You have to refrain from your making such statement.

Continue with your statement, thank you Treasurer.


IAN LING – STUCKEY – Mr Speaker, I understand that it becomes personal if we call names.

At no time have I referred to individual by name, accept of course by former Prime Minister.

No other genuine trade union leadership in the world would oppose a tax on banks earning excessive profits.

As promised, we are undertaking further consultations with key stakeholders.

This includes Telstra as the likely new owner of the Digicel network.
23/02 Recent discussions with Telstra, including in Melbourne on 1 February have highlighted that PNG's tax payments are likely to increase substantially under the new ownership structure.

Additionally, higher investment in telecommunication towers and other infrastructure is planned which will help drive the broader economy.

This means that It is very likely that significant amendments will be made in the March session.
We also need to consider the fairness of the Digicel legacy, and investment in rural banking and fees.

The on-going discussions have been very productive, and will serve well, the interests of our country.

Reforms S - Cash flow Management Mr Speaker, the simple fact is that most of our revenues come in the second half of the year while we want most of our funding to go out in the first half of the year.

31 We budget the expenditures, we budget the revenues, we budget for any financing gap.
But all within the annual budget framework, we have this mismatch in the timing of revenues and expenditures.

This was why we introduced the reforms to the Temporary Advance Facility (TAF), to better match revenues and expenditures; an option for a cash overdraft at the central bank of up to Kl,500 million.

Mr Speaker, as we start 2022, I have given clear instructions that this reformed TAF is to be used for better cash flow management.
So we have already seen that we have sent out payments to schools on time for the first time in many, many years.

According to all international definitions, this is not deficit financing, as it has to be repaid in full by the end of the year.

In 2020, all of the TAF was repaid.

In 2021, all of the TAF was repaid.

But the TAF is an important mechanism to get some of our most important funding delivered on time to our schools and hospitals and road contractors, rather than constantly being late.
So, I hope the cronies of the crooks will now stop claiming, that the use of TAF is deficit financing.

2022 Prospects Mr Speaker, as we start the new year, I would like to reflect on the good work that has been done and took ahead.

Contrary to the attempts of the member for Ialibu-Pangia, to talk down the economy, PNG is recovering, from the worst of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Let me re- iterate my earlier comments on the good news on economic growth.
The PNG economy is now estimated to grow from K85 billion in 2020, to K93 billion in 2021 and K101 billion in 2022.

The KIOO billion plus economy in 2022, is only possible, because of the steady, responsible hand of good economic management, by the Marape-Basil government.

Our approach to the COVID-19 pandemic of "Protecting the Budget, Protecting the Economy' prevented PNG falling down a very dark economic hole.
PNG is expected to be a K150 billion economy by 2028, and K200 billion by 2031, but only, if PNG re-elects a strong economic team in 2022.

24/02 Mr Speaker, the 2021 Budget results indicate we are continuing on the budget repair and reconstruction path set out in 2019.

This path of steady reductions in the budget deficit of at least one percentage point of GDP per year will see PNG return to a budget surplus by 2027.
32 Mr Speaker, the Marape-BasiI Government over the last three years has demonstrated its fiscal credentials.

We are bringing the budget deficit down in a balanced, steady way that protects key health, education and infrastructure expenditures, 2022 will be the first year of a 13 year plan, which provides the prospect of reducing PNG's debt level to absolutely zero by 2034.

This would be the first time in our history, we have such an option.
2022 will see the delivery of a budget, much more focused on the United Nations' Sustainable Development Goals.

There will be much more for health, education and infrastructure, with funding spread right across this great nation of ours.

We are going to build back better!

The year, 2022 will see a massive increase in our funding for health, lifting from Kl,745m in 2021 to K2,555m in 2022, a 46 per cent increase.

We want our people to have access to better hospitals throughout the country.
We want more nurses and doctors and medical supplies, going all the way down to our aid posts, to help our people, 2022 will see a massive lift in our education spending from Kl,095 million to Kl,417 million; an increase of 29 per cent.

This includes K632 million for full government tuition-fee subsidies, making 2022 the highest level of support ever provided to the education sector.

The year 2022 will see a massive increase in the Public Investment Program Budget of 22 per cent, from K4,824m to K5,858m.
Through Connect PNG, 2,242 kilometre of roads are already being improved and 323 projects, most of them at local level, generating jobs and incomes for our people, are ongoing.

This productive investment spending has nearly doubled since, I will say it again-the Marape- Basil Government is the Infrastructure Government.

This year will see full funding of K600 million for the-2022 Election, which should make it the most open and fair in our country’s history.
Conclusion Mr Speaker, in concluding, the economic reform program of the Marape Government continues with strong international support.

The year 2022 is a year of seeing the benefits.

We have brought in a new economic philosophy, focused on our people and land and beauty as well as our minerals.
More growth, more jobs, a K100 billion economy, major increases in spending on health, education, infrastructure and all in the context of credible budget repair, that can see PNG return to a budget surplus by 2027 and no debt by 2034.

As we move towards the fully funded election in 2022, let us celebrate the gains, from better economic management and make sure, we do not return to the sins and incompetence of the past.

33 25/02 PNG's future is much brighter with Marape's economic team.
Thankyou Mr Speaker.

Mr JOSEPH SUNGI (Nuku – Minister for Public Service) – I move – That the Parliament take note of the Paper.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

In 2017, my district of Nuku for the whole year received only K2 million.

All the programs that my DDA approved came to a standstill, even though 2018 and part of 2019.

For 2021, despite the Covid-19 and the economic blow out in the whole world, we thought that it will be worse for Papua New Guinea but it did not happen.
So many would say that it came maybe as a miracle.

Mr Speaker, everything rises and falls with good leadership.

The budget management of the country is the result of good management and leadership of the Prime Minister and the Cabinet, most importantly the Treasurer.

You do not have to look far.

When you go to all the remote districts of this country, for the last one and a half years, there is a total transformation in the remotest part of this country.
Roads that were neglected for too many years are now being upgraded and connected.

Many would think that you would not achieve this at this time but it is happening.

As the Public Service Minister, public servants have been paid every fortnight.

In many countries and even in the small countries of the Pacific, they have not been paid.

Why?

Why is Papua New Guinea not facing this problem?

We should commend the current government under the leadership of our Prime Minister, the Cabinet and the Treasurer.
Our development partners will not just give money to you.

The borrowings that we are now getting is financing the remotest parts of this country.

This has never happened before.

I would like to commend the Treasurer and the Government in making sure that not even one public servant has to miss out on his or her pay.

All public servants are being paid throughout the country.

Every fortnight, the Government does not fail the public servants.
If you are saying that we have a problem, then the first people that will not be paid is the public servants.

In small countries, they are not being paid right now.

They are having problems but we are not having problems, we are paying our public servants.

34 So on behalf of our public servants in the length and breadth of this country, I would like to commend the Government and the Treasurer in making sure that, salaries of all public servants reach in all remote part of this country.
I would like to also commend the Government in making sure that, the biggest change that we are now seeing is that our small contractors in the remote areas of this country are seeing the money that they have not seen before.

In the past, this money is only known to the friends of the high bracket level.

PNG’s small contractors never saw millions.

They probably had thousands but now the small contractors in the remote parts of this country are receiving millions of Kina that is transforming this country.
26/02 This is what we want when the Prime Minister announces that we should take back Papua New Guinea.

We should now start growing millionaires and how can we do that?

The only way to do that is through our Budget.

and in my opinion, this budget has now delivered it.

My own district in Nuku, I do not have any foreign businessman in the district and I have two trade stores operating with just under K200 thousand a year and now they have an annual turnover of almost K1.3 million.
And I have records to prove to you that this did not come from anywhere it came from the DSIP.

Mr Deputy Speaker, I would like to commend the hardworking Treasurer and the Government for taking a bold stance on the way we do business and to make sure that we prove to the world that we can manage the economy of this country so that they have confidence and are able to support the Budget.
Mr MICHAEL NALI (Mendi-Minister for Works and Implementation)- I wish to contribute to this debate as we are now towards the end of February and the count down towards the 2022 National General Elections and come April we will come back for our last session for this Parliament.

Our people can now or have already seen what the government has done and what the elected leaders have done so far.
Mr Deputy Speaker, over the years we have seen that the understanding of our people has reached levels higher than compared to pre and post-independence era.

People are now well versed with the election gimmicks and processes not like in the past.

I have realized that all the activities coming up in the country are centered around the government and we have all 35 come to rely on the annual Budget where the government appropriates and distributes to the provinces, districts and LLGs.
When the government has good policies in places and implements them the private sector gains confidence and cooperates well and vice versa.

I think we have come to a point where we all need to acknowledge and be honest about the things that we say and do here in Parliament and outside of Parliament as well.

As leaders all eyes and ears are on us and we may feel that some of our statements are just plain but to our people they take our statements seriously and every word is scrutinized well.
Meaning that these words are coming from a leader and whatever the leader says they take it very seriously.

If it is positive, it is taken in well, if it is negative, it does not go down so well.

Over my time as a politician, I have been part of many governments that have not produced surplus Budgets.

In the olden days yes, they did have surplus Budgets but these days I ave yet to witness one.

27/02 When the Grand Chief Sir Michael led the Government we had surplus budgets on one or two occasions.
But, Mr Speaker, no one must speak negative about each other here because we have all seen the efforts of successive Coming back to the Treasurer’s statement, it is a statement from the Government.

If the treasurer, or me, or you make a statement, no one will believe in whatever we say.

But, Mr Speaker, the fact of the matter in this particular case is that, we’ve survived some really tough times.
So Mr Speaker, on the other hand, if someone wants to talk negative about the Government, I think it would be unfair to say that any leader has not performed well.

Government has performed very well in some really tough times.

One may say that this Government has borrowed more money than the previous Government.

Well at those times when times were good, they may have borrowed less money but this time when times are tough, what option do you have?
Government has to go and borrow money and put to good use.

Mr speaker, I speak as a long term serving member of Parliament.

I came in 1992 and served as a Member of Parliament for three terms and was out for two terms and` now I have come back.

Mr Speaker the Government makes sure that the rural sector has money to build road infrastructure, hospitals, schools, rural electrification, water supply and other services.
Most of 36 these responsibilities were under the Government, but now have since transferred to the provincial governments, especially in roads.

Mr Speaker, during my time, members were allocated only K250,000.

We tried our best and I don’t know how we did it but we did it with only K250, 000.

Mr Speaker, in really tough times we continue to pick up the DSIP and additional money to upgrade and maintain our rural roads.

When you come to Mendi, you will see some beautiful roads I built in my district.
Like what the Prime Minister has said, it may not be a lot of money, but you build roads, kilometer by kilometer.

And when you build roads kilometer by kilometer you must spend the money and build good roads so that in the following year you get another lot of money and you build a few more kilometers and eventually you will find out that you have some really good roads in your district.

I tried it, and Mr Speaker, it has worked for me.


So I would like to say thank you for the good work the Government has done in these tough times.

Maybe for political reasons a lot of things have been said, but Mr Speaker, the Treasurer did not have an easy task in these tough times.

We are not the only ones affected by these tough times, the whole world is facing it because of the Covid-19.
But, Mr Speaker, our friends right throughout the world especially our development partners, the Australian Government, the Japanese Government, the Chinese Government and other government agencies, the World Bank, European Union have helped us to survive.

We are not the only ones picking up assistance from the major super powers.

I’m pretty sure the Africans are benefiting from it also.
The same group of people are also carrying the Africans somewhere if they are not able to survive and the Pacific islands are also facing the same.

28/02 We are also the same.

But, Mr Speaker, you may be the smartest brain on earth and you may speak the best English on earth, you may want to be perceived as a superman, but, Mr Speaker, getting money is not an easy task.

The money belongs to the tax payers of another country.
People are paying tax and whatever the decision their government makes, its people are watching.

So, if those countries out there are supporting our Government, well for once we have to say thank you to our Prime Minister, our Treasurer and this Government because during this tough time we were able to get support from a lot of our friends internationally.
And, if our friends do not have the confidence over the policies that this Government has been embarking on over the last two and a half years, Mr Speaker, I tell you, it doesn’t really 37 matter who you are or where you are or on which side of the planet you exist, no one will want to give their money to you for you to go and abuse.
Mr Speaker, I think many countries including Australia, after a very long time have finally realized our cultural line-ups, the way we live in this country, the number of languages that we speak, the number of ethnic groups that exist in this country.

And surely, Mr Speaker, they have now come to realise and take on board some of the policies that successive Governments of Papua New Guinea have made knowing very well that these decisions are made based on how culturally we are placed in this country.
So, I want to say that it is not right for us to always speak negatively about this Government.

As we are preparing to go for elections, if the people are confident in this Government, they will restore it but if they decide to replace this Government, Mr Speaker those things are likely to happen.

But, even if there was a new government formed tomorrow, they will not make miracles happen.
We have lived long enough to know and understand how the system works and we all know where we are, where we came from and by now, we should know what we are likely to face.

Mr Speaker, to summarise my speech, I feel that we have enough money in this country.

We are quite capable.

The IRC and Customs have also collected taxes, more than what it was estimated.

So, I’m pretty sure that with the support of our friends and internally within ourselves, if we do the right thing, we can continue to survive.
I would like to ask both the Government and the Opposition; we need to have respect for the system and process of government and let it continue to operate on its own.

Politicians will come and go but the system and the process of government must never be interfered with.

Let the system and process of the government continue to operate as it has always been.

If we start to interfere with the process and systems of government, we will fail.

This is just a warning for tomorrow.


I’m just saying this for the sake of tomorrow.

This does not apply only to Waigani, it applies to the provincial governments as well as the local- level governments and also to the districts.

But all in all, Mr Speaker, I want to say I am pleased and would like to support all the work that has been done by the Prime Minister and the Treasurer up until now, as well as the Government.

I also want to say, the Opposition is not always reckless.
They are in the opposition hence the negative comments but they themselves know the truth.

Many will agree with the points I have raised.

38 29/02 We all will benefit from whatever good resources we have on this earth and we will suffer together if we don’t have any good resources in the country so whatever we do, we must not undermine a work a government has done.
However, concerning the Works Department, I as the Minister have some outstanding work but I know my department is not the only department that has outstanding work.

I want to thank the Government for the support that was given to me.

The support has enabled me to revive the Department of Works.

In a couple of months, whoever new Minister for Works that comes will only be there to implement these policies.
The paper works have been already done but without the support of this Government, I wouldn’t have done that.

I may not have had the opportunity to speak in the last sitting in April so while I have the opportunity I must thank the Prime Minister, Ministers, and Members on both sides of the House who have been very supportive to help me make the reforms and changes in the Department of Works.

Mr Speaker, with that, I appreciate you all and commend the statement the Treasurer has presented.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Mr ALLAN BIRD (East Sepik) – Mr Speaker, I also would like to commend the Treasurer and the Government.

I think, when we look back, there’s one remarkable difference that this Government has presented to the world and that is in restoring the credibility of our country, particularly, in terms of good governance and accountability.

The level of accountability that existed before this Government was quite awful, to be honest.
On the international stage, not many people were willing to deal with us, especially some of our bilateral partners.

So, in the hindsight we were fortunate that the government changed when it did because immediately after we had the Covid-19 pandemic hit the entire planet, and what a lot of Papua New Guineans fail to understand is that on the annual basis in the last two years the world global economy lost US$4 trillion worth of trade.

That’s a lot of money.


It’s almost K16 trillion, a number that we cannot even imagine because our Budget only go up to billions.

Now, had we continued into the pandemic with that low credibility, I wonder what might have been.

We had two choices; while the world’s economy was contracting, we could have 39 cut back our Budget.

We could have cut back on our health care, education, and infrastructure but the Marape Government made a very bold decision.
The Government has said if we cut back on health, education, law and order, and others, our people will suffer because things were already bad enough.

Cutting back would have made things worse.

I was one of those in the early days cautious about borrowing.

But then, I ask myself, when is the best time to borrow?

Do you borrow when you don’t need the money?

Or, do you borrow during a global pandemic so that you can at least maintain your services?
However, in the case of East Sepik, Mr Speaker, the decision of the National Government didn’t just help us to maintain services.

We expended the services because the funding levels were maintained and we were strict at home.

Mr Speaker, in East Sepik we have clamped down on the habits of stealing money.

When I became the governor in 2017, there was only K20, 000 left in the bank account.
Today, as I stand here, we clamped down on the corrupt practices and take responsibility for the fund given to us by the government, particularly the Marape Government.

If we don’t have any capacity to spend, we don’t do a false claim to steal the money, we let it sit in the account.

Today, as a result, East Sepik provincial government has K160 million sitting in the bank account from the K20 thousand in 2017.
30/02 Members of Parliament and even public servants as well have responsibility to ensure the funding National Government allocates to us is spent wisely.

We must be accountable to the public.

We are too busy constructing roads, bridges, classrooms and becoming contractors rather than being members.

The public are so excited when you build a road.

They don’t worry about whether you are doing it accountably, value for money and those things as long as you are bringing developments.
Accountability and international credibility no longer have value.

We are project managers sitting in this Floor.

So, Mr Speaker, we have responsibility and in the case of East Sepik we’ve been particularly harsh but there are some roads in our province that have been closed for more than 30 years.

Thanks to the Marape government in the last three years we have received funds and I take note of the statement from the Minister for Works.
We finally fixed some of those roads and they are open now many roads after independence were closed until the last two years.

They opened up during the pandemic during 40 the most difficult time in the history of the world because the government maintained its level of spending to maintain services.

We were able to open up things in East Sepik.

Right now as I stand before you we are maintaining close to 30 health centers.

These were never maintained since they were built 40 years ago.
We are maintaining them now during a global pandemic and economic downturn across the world.

We are maintaining those services.

We would not have done so, if, Marape government decided to cut expenditures.

I personally had arguments with the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister said to me no we have to borrow.

So, I stand here to admit that I was wrong whilst Prime Minister and Treasurer were right.

I am happy to admit that on this Floor.


Mr Speaker, because as I look back that decision helped my people so I must admit and have to give my applause for a job well done.

We have had to struggle with capacity in East Sepik.

I sat with my administrator and he said this to me; Governor, we have a lot of money yet I’m finding it hard to spend it.

When have you heard a public servant say that?

But this is the net effect of the decisions of this government.
Our capacity in the province we will fix it but in the meantime the money is safe so we can still use it to benefit our people.

We are not misusing it by doing false claims or contracts.

The people’s money is safe and it will be used for their benefits.

Mr Speaker, our people are complaining about taxes.

The bulk of the funds we have in the Budget comes from two sources; borrowing and taxes.
As a responsible government coming in next term, we have to have a look at how these taxes are translated for the benefit of our people and we need a transparent process that informs our people.

Many of our people do not understand the issue of tax.

Mr Speaker, they complain about paying too much taxes.

But I think that if we show them how tax is used many will agree.

But we are failing in this area of being fully accountable about how we collecting the taxes and where we are expending them.
We need to simplify our communication tools with the public.

And finally, Mr Speaker, I want to thank Australian government and the people of Australia because the bulk of the support in the last two years during this pandemic has been coming from Australia, which is unprecedented.

31/02 41 The bulk of the support in the last two years during this pandemic has been coming from Australia which is unprecedented.
Before they use to give us just enough but now they are going beyond and they are supporting us by giving us zero interest loans to fund our National Budget.

So, we have to appreciate the people and the Government of Australia and acknowledge them with a simple thank you, for all they are doing for our country.

At the end of the day, we have to be fully accountable for every toea whether we collect it from taxes, loans from our good friends abroad, it must be used properly.
At the end of the day, we just don’t dish out on ad-hoc road and bridge programs.

We must show in the economic output of our provinces and districts.

If we continue pending with no proper outcome than we must seriously ask whether we are using these scarce resources properly or not.

There must be a return because when the next Government takes helm, it will be loaded with this huge financial burden, particularly the loans and borrowings.

Someone has to repay that.


We heard the Member for North Fly complaining about P’nyang.

Whether we like it or not, P’nyang has to come on stream, because sometime in the future, these loans have to be repaid.

As leaders, we have to be responsible of how we discuss matters in this House.

We have to look at the big picture.

The loans that this Government is acquiring is for the benefit of East Sepik, Madang and the nation as a whole with all our people.
So, it becomes incumbent upon all of us to make sure that we are contributing something to the national purse, so that when we start to reimburse the loans, the Government can generate enough revenue to offset all these loans that have aided us through these tough times in the last two years.

Mr Speaker, with that I wish to place on record my greatest commendations for the Treasurer and the Prime Minister and his Deputy.
Mr WERA MORI (Chuave -Minister for Climate Change) – Mr Speaker, I rise to join my colleague leaders to contribute to this debate.

Firstly, from the outset, the beginning of Covid-19, I clearly remember our Prime Minister’s bold statement, in every situation and circumstances there are always opportunity arising.

I do recall that Covid-19 was a blessing in disguise.
Thankfully, we were able to amass support from our international partners including the good people of Australia who were behind us backing us up all the way.
42 Some of the very distinctive actions taken by this Government that must be noted on both sides of the Floor and for the information our people is that, in the past we had a bottle-neck system to development simply because we had loans that we were not able to repay and the principles of those loans were still hanging on and we were only managing the interest repayments on an annual basis.
I take this opportunity especially on behalf of my people of Chuave to thank the Treasury and the Prime Minister that we were able to repay and clear some of those expensive loans we took using the loans that had minimal interest.

Mr Speaker, the challenges remain on all the leaders on this Floor and in this Chambers.

We are talking about figures that is beyond the imagination of an average citizen.
I would like to pose the question on the material impact on the livelihood of our people in how we dispose and spend program the funds that we have received.

32/02 What sort of material impact or difference has it made on the livelihood of our people and this is something that our people are going to hold us accountable when we go into the coming election.
Having said that, I would like to migrate our thoughts into how we can reform the economy, I must commend the Government for signing and bringing on the P’nyang project, but what we need to see further beyond is the economy in its total; how we can reform the economy so that our people can participate one way or the other, 85 percent of our people are rural based.

What sort of economic activities would they be able to participate in.
The immediate influences of the extractive industries only revolves around the immediate territory of those projects, but what about the bulk of the population; the agriculture sector is the answer.

We must not pay less attention to agriculture.

For instances, in 1975, just before PNG gained independent, we were producing around 1.1 million bags of coffee.
There is a country in Asia called Vietnam, they were coming to an end of a conflict with the people of the United State of America and they have virtually produced nothing.

But today Vietnam produces around 10 to 15 million bags of coffee.

And PNG is still struggling between 600 000 to 800 000 bags.

One of the major contributing factors is the diminishing of the plantation sector.

43 It is important that we must pay attention to this sector because not only in coffee but cocoa and copra as well.
This is where we are losing revenue, it is good to build roads and other infrastructure programs but by the same token, we must be able to give that opportunity back to our people and that is the plantation sector.

I do remember some years ago, when I was then the Minister for Commerce and Industry.
Mr Speaker, I had a meeting with members of the rural industries councils, they have highlighted to me the predicaments they had when dealing with us on how they could revive some of those cash crops that we were producing on plantation base.

Mr Speaker, it is important to know that when we look at that and start involving our people in agriculture, we are migrating 80 to 85 per cent of our people especially to some form of cash economy.
This afternoon, one of our leaders made reference on how we could increase our taxes.

It is important that we must migrate this sector so that they can be able to be in a position where they can pay taxes.

This brings me to the next issue of building a resilient society.

This morning there were several questions raised to the Prime Minister with regards to challenges we face today.

I would like to basically make this statement on this Floor of Parliament.
Any Government that is formed after the 2022 election that we must be consensus of the fact that climate change is a reality.

33/02 We will still continue to face challenges posed by king tides, simply for the fact that our ice on the North and South had melted and there has been increase in volume of water.

They will be bound to take up spaces and it is important at this juncture to take note, that we will be still faced with this.
Our rural communities especially, along our coastlines such as the little island called Arimot, in the Siasi group of islands.

I do not know how they feel that we being their government; being their leaders are debating on this Floor of Parliament, but for them, the challenges are a priority and are real.

Some years ago, as I was travelling back by boat from Kerema, it just so happened at the village of Lelefiru that the church was washed away by the wave actions.
Mr Deputy Speaker, so as leaders going forward and as to how we decide to navigate, we must also be mindful of the fact that we have challenges.

And as a government we must 44 learn to build a very resilient society; not only for our people but the infrastructures that we deliver.

Many a times, we knowingly make the wrong decisions which we know what would be the consequence and the outcome, but we still go ahead and set up infrastructures that we know will continue to draw down resources from the state.
Having said that, I would like to basically contribute a few thoughts of which I am sure the Treasurer, this Government and any government coming into the future must take note of.

The fact is that we have brought in amendments to the Central Bank Acts and etcetera.

We must now seriously look at allowing people to come and deposit foreign currencies in this country.

We must now start doing that.

If we do not do that now, we will still have problems when it comes to forex.
One of the things that the government is now moving this forward, we must seriously consider holding gold bullions in our stock as a guarantee to strengthen our currency in our Central Bank.

Because we are going through a situation where there are security issues right around the world and this is important that the country should take note of that.
So, Mr Deputy Speaker, what our people deserve from us and what they would want from us which we have done and must continue to do is to assure them of the security into the future.

Having said that, thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Mr DON POLYE (Kandep) – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

The current circumstances are not that easy for any Prime Minster, Treasurer or any Government to manage and run.

These are very difficult times and unprecedented.


There are heaps of problems coming into this country and to other countries one after other.

The management of the economy is easier said but running and managing it is a challenge for any government.

In my opinion, I think that the current Government under the leadership of the Prime Minister, James Marape, the Deputy Prime Minister, Sam Basil, the Treasurer and those in the lead are doing their very best with much success despite criticism.
34/02 Those criticisms are attributed by the factors that are beyond Papua New Guinea’s control.

And I commend the Treasurer for making a statement that gives us some clarity into 45 what the Government is doing, what it will do and some of the reforms or activities that the Government is undertaking to bring us to the next stage.

I would like to address about six or seven issues very briefly; firstly, the reforms that the Governor has mentioned to ensure that we lower the debts.
This is an important focus of the Marape-Basil Government and the Treasurer is correct in stating that focus, for the Parliament to see and to confidently pursue.

A debt to GDP ratio at 60 per cent to a GDP of say K101 billion or any amount is a challenge to all of us.

We cannot blame one government for any debts because if we look at the history of Papua New Guinea, debts have been accrued over time and every successive government has a challenge to try and overcome them.
But the demands for the service like I heard the Governor of East Sepik was saying are all equally as important so you have to create a balance somewhere.

So, you find these debts coming up but you grow the size of the pie, which is the GDP and when you grow that, it is easier to manage.

And every time you grow the size of the pie and regardless of the size of the debt, you will find that the debts comes down as the portion of the pie increases.
I think that is the focus of the current government and that is how it is going.

And even after the elections and into the future that is how this Parliament should view it.

That we must grow the economy and not so much dwelling on the debts, although not so much in overlooking it but it should be an important that the component of the management of the economy.

We should look at the size of the GDP and how we can grow that.
The challenge is on the prudent expenditure and priority areas and because of other pressures coming on in any government you will find that the temptation is there to spend on areas that are not of priority; while forgetting your MTDS, your visions and other plans of government and others acts or the most viable areas of the economy.

This is the challenge that I think any government is faced with all the time but that is where strong discipline is exercised.
Where you spend while making sure that you access a return which is bigger than the amount that you spend.

This has been a challenge and I see this government is addressing that and can we all render our support to that effort.

The other areas in the matter of reducing the debt is through the public service and the unnecessary operational expenditures that we carry as a liability.

For instance; I find that the many institutions of the government are doing the same thing.
They are duplicating functions performed by other departments.

For example; in the Gas industry, you have the National Gas Corporation, you have Petromin, Kumul petroleum etc.

46 You find that there are people who are working there and there are operational costs billed into those areas.

I heard the Minister for Public Service, talking about the public service and its true.

We have the Public Service Commission, we have DPM, we talk about human resource and others.
And if DPM is managing the human resource aspect of the Public Service what about the other line agencies that have the human resources inbuilt in them.

We have the to identify such and maybe cutdown on duplicating the role and functions of the departments and agencies of government that we create.

This is to cut down on the operational costs and maximize the benefits that come from the monies that we spend.
Mr Deputy Speaker, in terms of loans that we take, they are not bad from my experience and we get loans in order to invest in a viable area but if we get loans to invest in areas that are not viable then it becomes a challenge as we have experienced on the Floor of Parliament and in various other departments in PNG.
35/02 We need to learn and understand that we need to manage ourselves properly Another area of confusion is the provincial governments and district development authorities, we have so much money going to the districts and the provinces.

The acquittals and the accountability that’s built into those two systems of fund and expenditure to the budget is also a challenge.
Because you cannot really master it properly, in terms of economic quantity as to how much the district has achieved against what the province has achieved.

We have to align these expenditures properly so that the appraisal system or when we look at how much we have achieved out of those expenditure, there is maximum benefit in the province.

We should not look at the districts but the districts should come under the provinces so that we can see and measure it quantatively as a province.
So to reduce the debt is one issue, but it’s more important to grow the economy and that’s a result of how best and cost efficient we are at spending the money and also growing the economy.

Second point, Mr Deputy Speaker, refers to the bank.

I welcome this but I have a very bold statement to make here, just to this Parliament.
And that is, the current system on how the Central Bank of PNG is structured will contradict to induce loans, will continue to influence if you like any Government to get more and more loans because that’s how the Bank is structured.

In my opinion I believe we have to look at the holistic overview of the Central Banking system and change it.

Let’s look at things like credit facility, it’s probably K200 million and you look at the country’s economy.
In the modern parts of the country, you will find that 47 economic growth is different to that in the rural areas.

you have a two speed economy in PNG.

The bank should be addressing that as to how it positions itself and if you don’t you will find that the urban areas will grow more and more and the rural areas will experience a negative growth.
For instance, some people may call it ridiculous, but can we restructure the Bank to have gold bullions in the Bank and use that as a reserve against other currencies rather depending on the US Dollar as a currency.

Can PNG design its own reserve bank rather than depending too much on the Central Bank that is interconnected to other reserve banks in the world and they influence very much of what we do in this country.
But when you have a reserves like Gold Bullion in your own country then you will find that you have a very stable monetary or legal tender that gives strength to the kina and therefore you will see your foreign currency grows and even if you want to get a loan, you go against the gold that is in your country.

What is wrong with that Mr Deputy Speaker?

And then there’s another notion in the country, the ‘Dutch disease’.
There’s a budget, and people will say if you release so much money, billions of kina into the economy, you may create a ‘Dutch disease’ experience or pressure.

In other words, the economists advise us that if you do that, what will happen is, is it true?

I think in PNG that is not relevant.

In PNG, that we should have a lot of cash flow, a lot of money put into the rural areas of Papua New Guinea.
We will grow the rural area so that you find that the second speed economy which is negative or very resource in the rural areas has pick up because you put in so much cash into them.

At the moment, the cash is only in the formal sector up at the top level but not the grassroots level and we need to choose our reforms there.
Mr Deputy Speaker, the use of the agreement, the IMF Improvement Program, that’s a good one but Mr Speaker, let me say this, I think the Treasurer knows it and that is they do not, IMF does not run Papua New Guinea affairs.

We invite them to the table, it is our agenda, it is our strategy, it is our plan, it is our home grown strategies on how to reform our economy, reform our bank system and improve our cash flows and grow the country’s slice of the cake.
So it is our agenda and therefore any other development partner that comes in to just observe and give their views when we ask them.

But they should not impose upon the country as to their opinion of what they think we should be doing.

36/02 48 We have to be very careful because Papua New Guinea must run its own affairs and must not allow a foreign institution to dictate or to influence the changing of management in this country.

It is very important that PNG take charge of its own economic progress.
Cash Flow Management I talked about it before, but let me say this again, this Sovereign Wealth Fund is very important.

It allows and it helps you.

The laws were made.

And, I am one of those that in the first place when that content came in, we started out the Sovereign Wealth Fund throughout the world and we introduced it.

It is very good.

It’s a system that when there is money coming in, it helps you.
When you have a failed economy and your cash flow is low, Sovereign Wealth Fund has cash sitting out or invested off-shore.

It has money there, then you bring it into the economy, and it is used to buffer to a down turn in cash flow, so you find your spending is always constant and the development is unaffected.

It’s a very important strategy.

The other thing too, is, we need to spend in line with the budget.

Sometimes, it is tempting to spend outside of the budget or to abuse the appropriation bill.
Mr Deputy Speaker, the way to do it is to instil some discipline in the management and implementation of the budget and making sure they have the internal objectives, but I say that we should really place a profound interest in doing the budget and the application of the Sovereign Wealth Fund in managing our cash flow.

Local Financial Market The last point is the local financial market.
In PNG we have ANZ, Westpac, Maybank, Kina Bank, Microbank (National Development Bank) and other small financial institutions there.

This is our local money market.

The cheaper, the better.

If we can strengthen those.

Sometimes we hear some of these banks are selling.

It should be the interest of this Government and Parliament to make sure that they don’t sell, but encourage them to find out what is their problem, what are the challenges they are facing?
We should encourage them to stay on and grow and also encourage new banks to come on board.

Central Bank needs to look at supporting more prudent banks and support smaller banks to come on board to increase the size of the PNG cash markets so that the Government can have easy access to it rather than getting more expensive loans and grow the economy within using our own banking institutions.

And, the second last point, Mr Deputy Speaker, is the possible legislative structure we must do.
Look at the Ministers and Members of Parliament, we are mixed up.

Look at the 49 ministers, that is a lot of work on their plate, honestly.

You can’t easily and effectively manage an electorate, a centre, you cannot manage a ministerial work of the national interests, you will find sometimes, there is conflict of interest there.

I’m speaking because I have experienced it myself.


And then, you look at the Prime Minister, who is also a member of an electorate, the Deputy Prime Minister is also a member of an electorate.

It is just too much job there.

It is very difficult for one member to do everything and to deliver.

Sometimes, we overjudge ourselves.


I think that there should be a system on this Floor that we should have positions or electorates created for those who wants to become ministers and for those who want to be electorate members.

So, members can focus on the districts and those that become elected through the electorates for ministers, they become ministers of state to focus on national issues.

Because for one member to address all those responsibilities, it is just too much, I tell you.
Sometimes, I find it is very unhealthy and you lose focus and sometimes you forget many things, and you will find that many jobs will never get done And that affects the performance and productivity level of any government in the Parliament.

We need to do change.

The other thing also is the laws and the budgets we pass here.

We should have a upper house.

I think it’s a better idea.

We should have a bicameral system.


For instance, if the members of Parliament are the from the electorates, they are from the lower house and the governors are in the upper house.

There is a body that checks through any budget, whether the budget is good or whether the law is good, we have the checkard balance system.
Also, speaking of that Mr Deputy Speaker, we should have the committee systems on the Floor of Parliament, maybe the 30 to 40 committee systems, that are not working, we should strengthen them.

The committee system of this democratic House that is very important.

They are powerful and they must be maintaining manners.
If you do that, you will that find your democratic level, your governance, the role that members of Parliament play will not be one where the member becomes the legislator and the public servant as well.

37/02 You will find that those will be probably demarcated by a restructure of the house of democratic system, political and legislative system in this House in the country.
Finally, human resource, see those who implement money, do quality assurance programs, who make sure to do appraisals, who have alleviated the project on the ground, who 50 do check the returns made on the investments.

These are all done by the human beings.

In PNG, our universities and other institutions and even human resource development in public service management system, we need to encourage them.
Look at next 20 to 30 years down the line, we want to have sharp, efficient, effective, and multiskilling Papua New Guineans.

When you have those people, men and women in all our systems of governance, they will deliver a budget expenditure, an implementation of the budget that is cost effective and you will see the result on the ground.

At the moment, we have some incompetent people who are occupying very important strategic public service positions or even SOEs and statutory organisations.
Mr Deputy Speaker, they are here to be trained and to develop to manage the skills developed in other aspects of skills as well.

So, those issues, Mr Speaker, we know them.

They have been there but we must address them.

To fix those issues, we don’t have to look for answers out of the country or look for some experts.

They are all right here.

Look at the Ministers economic statements, he’s telling facts, establishing them.

But, also at the same time, the answers are all there.

We can add on.
We can add on.

Mr Deputy Speaker, in supporting this statement, let me say that the answers are within us, it is not with others.

Let’s change and do things much better than in the past.

Thank you.

Mr GARRY JUFFA (Northern) – Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.
In support to the wonderful presentations made by my wonderful colleagues, all of which were very important points and I am hoping that these presentations, ideas and suggestions that we invoke or we put forward here are somehow captured and converted into policies or laws or actions that can bring about tangible positive changes that we are advocating here on the Floor of Parliament.
I wanted to make a few comment in relation to the presentation made by the Treasurer and I must add here, Mr Speaker, that the Treasurer is one of the most hard working people that I know.

He is working odd hours and I sometimes wonder if he sleeps at all.

But, its good testament to the fact that he is also a Treasurer that has come under heavy criticism from everywhere and he continues to prove himself that despite all of the criticism that he will continue to serve Papua New Guinea as best as he can.
Thank you, Treasurer for your service to Papua New Guinea.

I also want to commend the Prime Minister for encouraging a healthy environment where we can criticise one and another, where we can put forward ideas, where we can be critical, and indeed, we can even allow criticism to come forward to attack us even if it is false, 51 rhetorical, and politically motivated.

This is a sign of a healthy democracy and the Prime Minister must be commended for advocating this.
I recall at the early stages of the formation of the Marape-Basil government.

At the early stages, there was a suggestion made by a Member of Parliament and said ‘Prime Minister, we have to be mindful of the media’ and the Prime Minister said very quickly before any more discussion could be heard on the subject matter, he said ‘let the media report as they outh to’.

It’s interesting to note that the media or elements of the media continuously attacked us and that’s fine, that’s their job.
But I only hope that they would do so with facts because many times they attack us with information that is mere rhetoric, that is not factual.

And then, when they do the retraction, instead of putting it on the front page as they do when they attack us, they put it in very little part maybe in an unseen middle page of the newspaper.

I am thinking of a specialist but I am using this to point out the fact that this is the government that has allowed for that and this is a testament to truth.
38/02 This is a testament to true democracy.

We may not like what the media reports all the time or indeed what our citizens say out there about us, whether it’s fact, fiction or rhetoric.

But, the fact that they can have the freedom to say that demonstrates that this Government promotes a robust democracy.

I want to make comments about reform.

I want to commend the Treasurer for his efforts for carrying out these very vital much needed reforms.
In fact, reforms are needed to build a robust public sector.

A robust public sector can survive us.

That can function despite or in spite of us, that no matter what happens despite various personality good or bad, that sector must continue to deliver to the expectations of the people of Papua New Guinea 24 hours a day and 365 days in a year.
And one effort I want to commend the Treasure for undertaking, is the review elements of the Central Bank or have an effort undertaken to look at how that organization functions.

Mr Deputy Speaker, I just want to make some recommendations.

Treasurer there’s an element of the Central Bank that I am quite impressed with and that is the financial intelligence unit.
That little unit or element of the Central Bank indicates that there is hope in this country for this very vital reform for holding to account organizations, individuals, companies, that are operating in our country, economy and financial systems.

In such a way that they respect our laws.

52 I feel that organization within the Central Bank need to continue to be supported in every which way we can.
And while I have this moment speaking about this unit, I want to raise something that is still outstanding in regards to the Central Bank.

Mr Deputy Speaker, that through you, I would like to highlight here this outstanding matter which occurred on May 2017.

Where the ABC news reported that K160 million were stolen and shipped overseas and it was later revealed that they were demonetized notes, sold to a note collector by the Bank of PNG.
Mr Deputy Speaker, if the Treasurer was to instigate an investigation into this matter, he would find that absolutely nothing has been done to conduct an investigation into this very strange and peculiar incident that occurred.

That K160 million went missing out at sea between here and the vicinity of the Malacca Strait an area operated by international pirates.

There’s only one person who was responsible for that and who knew what was happening.

We need to understand exactly what happened?


Why did the Bank of Papua New Guinea sell a K160 million in physical currency to a sole collector or supposed to be collecting or buying only a few denominations of currency?

Why did they have to collect K160 million worth?

Intelligence from various enforcement agencies indicated that much of the money it made its way back into Papua New Guinea and was used during one of the most disastrous elections in the history of Papua New Guinea.
But nothing has happened to determine what happened in regards to this K160 million.

Who made the decision?

Why was it shipped through the Malacca Strait?

Interesting, because some of that money came back across the border of Indonesia into Papua New Guinea, they were proliferated in various parts of Papua New Guinea just before and during the election.

The explanation given at the time was very scant and laughable.
39/02 In fact, in many other countries the head of that organisation at that time would have been held accountable and would have been sacked.

But that didn’t happen.

Its like many things that happen in this country, where heads of organisations do things like this or even worse.

They are allowed to remain.

How can we build a robust system when we allow such things to continue to happen?
If we are going to bring about reforms and pass legislations in this Chambers, we must continue to ensure that this doesn’t happen.

53 I am dragging time here, but I want to talk about this topic on reforms which I am very passionate about.
I must add as the Chairman of the Special Parliamentary Committee on Public Service Reforms intend to propose that we must set in place a mechanism where a Permanent Parliamentary Committee exists for the purposes of carrying our reforms because that must be a constant and consistent effort so that we can build a robust public system that we want.

Mr Speaker, I believe that investigations need to be carried out.

Why?

So that we can prevent such things from happening again.
That is why it is important to conduct investigations and seriously pay attention to these types of situations.

Many a times we are forgiving and forgetting all the time.

Every time the Treasurer reminds us of the past actions by the previous Government that brought us to where we are now, everyone wants us to forgive and forget.

Well, how are we going to correct ourselves to improve?

Yes, we all make mistakes and none of us are angels.
But we should take the opportunity from these types of situations to look at how we can correct and improve ourselves and put in place corrective measures so that these things don’t happen again.
One of the things that we must ensure, is to make sure people who are appointed to very important positions, heads of departments, state owned entities, statutory organisations, require the highest qualifications appointed on merit and that they are assertive and aggressive in protecting the dignity of Papua New Guinea.

Should they fail their duties, we should remove them immediately.

Not only remove them but block them from ever entering public office again.

Even in politics too.


Its quite different and interesting if you want to enter the public service you have to go through a very stringent process to be qualified to enter the public service.

Here in politics, anybody becomes Member.

I am not casting aspersions on anyone.

But I just want to say, we must think about standards in everything we do.

We want the best quality head of departments, statutory organisations, whether it’s the central bank or government-owned.
Those persons must be of the best quality for us to put forward.

Their responsibility is to protect this country in all they do.

Just as it is also a politician’s duty to do that.

We should have a two-tier layer of protection on our economy.

We have to start building barricades and compounds to protect our government organisations.

I know some of you will find it amusing but if we continue to ignore this, we are fast going to become the failed state that so many people curse us to become.
54 We are a extremely wealthy nation.

We have a lot of good people available, here and abroad willing to come and contribute to the nation’s economy but what we fail in doing is ensuring standards in everything we do.

40/02 This reforms that I am proposing are that we must continue to build standards in such a way that, we have the highest standards in the region and maybe in the world.

People may laugh and be cynical but look at a nation like Singapore.
It was once a ti ny island trading and fishing coastal country known as Temasek.

In the 14th century, when they were discovered by a prince from Jaya who sighted that little creature.

And he thought it was a lion.

The word for lion is Sima and placed is pore and that’s where the word Singapore comes from.

A little bit of lesson here.

Interestingly the business arm of Singapore is known as Temasek and it is the most powerful business arm in the region.
There are no lions in Singapore but there are Javanese Tigers and funnily enough, the Singaporean economy now is known as the Tiger Economy.

I am trying to keep some of you awake after a heavy lunch.

Treasurer, thank you very much for your contribution but I feel that this reform must continue in what you are doing in your space.

You have other organisation that you are responsible for Customs for instances, tax in IRC.
I feel that reforms are also necessary in those organisations and they are currently performing well but still needs more attention so that they can perform better than what they are doing.

In tax, I would like to say that this may be unpopular with us but we should really seriously reduce taxes.

We pay the highest income tax at 35 percent in the region and expatriates pay 45 percent.

And Corporate tax is one of the highest and we should also consider reducing that.
If we reduce these taxes and make serious effort to carry out these reforms; intelligence- driven effort to collect taxes and duties due to this country to ensure that everybody pays using modern technology, you will collect above after you reduce taxes.

And also, you provide an incentive for company to actually turn up and pay their taxes but now many companies avoid taxes.

The worst offenders are our own company; we citizens don’t pay tax.
Those people who operate taxi or PMV business don’t pay tax because nobody collects tax from them.

But they would willingly pay tax if it’s been reduced as stated by the Governor for East Sepik and if they could also see that these taxes were being put into good use.

55 Having said that, I commend the Treasurer for his statement and I want to support.

Motion- That the question be now put – agreed to.

Motion – That the Parliament take note of the paper – agreed to.

Paper noted.
Paper noted.

ADJOURNMENT Motion (by Mr William Samb) agreed to.

That the Parliament do now adjourn.

The Parliament adjourned at 4 p.m. 56