Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698080672367.pdf (Seychelles)
Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OF SEYCHELLES Wednesday 24th May, 2023 The Assembly met at 9am National Anthem Moment of Reflection Mr Speaker in the Chair MR SPEAKER tou nou Manm Bonzour Onorab, nou zofisye Lasanble, e nou piblik ki swiv nou.

Mersi pou zwenn nou pou sa lazournen travay.


Avan mon al lo biznes lo nou Order Paper, mon a zis pran lokazyon pou partaz avek Lasanble ki sa semenn nou pe akeyir 2 Lorganizasyon Parlmanter e Rezyonal, e nou Lasanble i enplike dan preparasyon pou zot travay.

E sa 2 lorganizasyon; 1 i Lasosyasyon Parlmanter Komisyon Losean Endyen ki'n konmans son travay yer.

E se pou sa zot in war labsans Speaker Gervais Deputy Henrie e osi Deputy Clerk Madanm Faure, ki enplike dan lorganizasyon.
E travay sa mwan menm mwan, mon pou zwenn zot apartir demen.

E osi, wi apartir ozordi nou annan osi Onorab Philip Monthy ki Raporter pou travay Lot lorganizasyon.

sa lorganizasyon se SADC PF, e nou pe fer meeting Komite isi Sanmdi avek Egzekitiv Dimans.

E osi i annan Manm Lasanble Secretariat ki pou enplike ladan.

Dan Lasanble i annan notaman Onorab Regina Esparon ki en Manm lo Komite Egzekitiv osi byen ki mwan menm.
Me selman, sa ki tre enportan osi se pou mwan remersye nou staff Secretariat ki'n enplike bokou dan preparasyon, e i annan ki preparasyon in ase konplike e difisil avek bann lorer vwayaz, e avek bann diferan opsyon akomodasyon.

mon remersye nou staff pou zefor ki zot in mete ki anplis.

E Mon a note poudir Dimans nou'n prevwar en kourt visit Lasanble Nasyonal par delegasyon SADC PF.

Zot pou zis rantre e nou pou fer zot visit Chamber e Galeri, e osi deor.

Menm si nou pa an sesyon.


Bon mon apresye zot sipor pou sa bann langazman ki nou annan anver sa bann lorganizasyon.

lo Byen, se pou sa.

Ok, nou a kapab pas travay lazournen ki lo Bill.

Me avan nou apel delegasyon Minis, nou bezwen eklersi semen pour Second Reading, e sa i konmans avek… Mon pou envit Lasanble ki menm nou pa'n ganny 7 zour notice pou 1 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 nou konsider sa Bill, e sa i dan lanmen Onorab Bernard Georges LGB.

Onorab mon a donn ou laparol.


HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Bonzour tou bann Manm Onorab, bann koleg dan Lasanble e tou dimoun ki pe swiv nou.

Mr Speaker, efektivman mon pou le move anba Order 97(1) pou ganny ou permisyon pou sispann Order 69 (1) nou Standing Orders, pou permet ki the Public Enterprises Bill, 2023 i ganny lir en Dezyenm Fwa ozordi, malgre ki sa peryod 7 zour ki nou Standing Orders i demande depi ki'n ganny lir pou Premye Fwa, yer pa ankor ekspire.

Mersi.
Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi, mon ganny segonnman pou sa Mosyon?

Onorab Arrisol.

a HON SANDY ARISSOL Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Bonzour tou Manm, e tou manm piblik ki a lekout.

i ganny segonde.

Mosyon Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Wi, LOTO, Onorab Pillay in lev lanmen.

Mon krwar i anvi adres sa Mosyon.

Mon a permet li avan nou kapab vote.

Onorab Pillay, wi, ou annan laparol.

avek eksprim HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Mr Speaker.
Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Bonzour tou koleg Onorab, e bonzour tou dimoun ki a lekout.

Mr Speaker, mon bezwen mon sa dezapwentman kontinyasyon suspension of Third Reading of…7 Day requirement, (pardon) - pou nou pran bann Bill avan ki sa 7 zour in pase.

Rezon sa Mr Speaker, dan sa enn ki la, nou'n annan plizyer meeting, an sa ki konsern sa Prozedlwa, e Gouvernman…Kote Gouvernman pa'n dir nou naryen as to lirzans sa Bill.

Se apre ganny kominikasyon lo lirzans sa Bill.


nou'n pou ki osi E sa i pa akseptab Mr Speaker, akoz nou osi nou form par Lasanble Nasyonal!

E nou koman Manm Lasanble nou bezwen ganny tou lenformasyon posib.

I a fer a 3 repriz ki mon'n demann 3 Minis statistik dan Lasanble, nou pa pe gannyen, ler bann Minis i vin devan Lasanble.

E la ankor enn fwa nou war en Bill ki vin devan Lasanble san ki i pas sa requirement 7 zour.
Mon oule met devan ou Mr Speaker ki dorenavan, ou bezwen fer serten travay lo avek Gouvernman, nivo 2 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Gouvernman pou vwar si zot pa kapab donn nou en lendikasyon lirzans sa bann Bill ler zot Gazete, olye Gazete i pas atraver nou bann prosedir, apre a dernyen minit vin dir nou poudir irzan, akoz ou pe al fer tel e tel travay avek swa IMF, swa World Bank, swa OECD.
en Mon ti a kontan met sa lo rikord Mr Speaker, akoz i lobligasyon annan konstitisyonnel par ou lofis, pou konsilte avek mwan lo lord ki bann Bill i aparet devan Lasanble.

E nou ti'n konsilte, e personn pa ti ankor dir nou lo lirzans sa Bill.

E mwan, mon krwar sa i montre en mank respe pou sa lofis ki mwan mon pe deservi, e pou Lasanble Nasyonal.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Mon le dir ki mon konpran ou largiman, Onorab Pillay.
E an prensip mon toutafe dakor ki nou devret ganny otan letan ki posib pou nou pas bann Lezislasyon, e pou donn Manm letan kontinyen.

E se pou sa ki i annan sa nesesite 7 zour ant First Reading ek Second Reading.

Selman mon le zis met lo rikord ki parfwa legzizans i pran neseser leksepsyon.

E mon krwar sa i enn.

Wi, nou'n ganny notice ki nou ki i irzan en pe tar.

E Bill ti deza dan Lasanble apre ti ganny retire pour koreksyon.
Me selman, remersye mon konvenki ki tou bann dimoun konsernen in travay vreman dir, e vreman avek tou lirzans pou zot kapab fer sa Bill arive.

E mon Bills Committee ki zot in travay sanses lo met sa Bill an plas.

E mon konnen osi poudir Minister Finans e Attorney General in travay extra time pou kapab prepar sa Bill a tan.

E mon konnen poudir i met sa Lasanble dan serten lenkonvenyans, me selman nou bezwen osi pran nou responsabilite i irzan e neseser.

ler keksoz Onorab Georges, oule adres lo la?


Mon a donn ou dernyen parol avan nou vote.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Wi, mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, efektivman Onorab Pillay in lev en pwen, e parey toultan nou dir, nou napa okenn problenm avek sa pwen ki'n souleve, e ou'n adres sa.

laparol Mon ti anvi pran en pou bomaten misconception.

Anba Konstitisyon, avek Speaker Leader Lopozisyon i bezwen zwenn pou desid lord ki bann Bill pou ganny prezante.
Sa se ler i annan 4, 5 Bill, zot, zot ava deside lekel ki vin premye, koriz 3 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 lekel ki vin dezyenm eksetera.

La nou annan zis 1 Bill.

E se Gouvernman ki deside, akoz sa se son prerogativ, kan i pou anmenn en Bill dan Lasanble.

Ler i annan plizyer Bill, zot, zot de zot ava diskit lord.

Me ler i annan 1, sa prerogativ i reste avek Gouvernman.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Mon pa pou al pli lwen lo la.


Mon pou zis fer remarke avek Onorab Georges ki mon konpran pwen Onorab Pillay, sa prensipalman, eksepsyon ant First Reading ek Second Reading ki dan Standing Order.

E se sa ki nou pe bypass.

se Me parey mon'n dir nou'n fer tou sa ki posib.

Osito ki sa Bill ti pare, mon ti notifye bann Manm ki sa Bill pe vin… Mon pe demande pou sa Bill ganny mete lo Order Paper pou permet zot komans travay lo sa Bill.
E vreman nou'n ganny zis 4 zour notice letan nou'n annan sa Bill dan nou lanmen, e nou annan zis 1 zour ant First Reading ek Second Reading.

Me se sa mon krwar ki Lasanble i tenir kont.

Onorab Pillay, mon le terminen avek sa diskisyon.

Si ou pou fer en pwen, nou a pran li koman dernyen parol.

Wi?

Speaker.

Mr Mersi Mr Speaker, mon totalman respe tou sa ki ou'n dir, e mon pou zis fer, raise en matter of privilege ki baze lo serten komanter ki Onorab Georges in fer.
Mr Speaker, nou annan devan nou en Bill ki annan 80 paz.

80 paz ki'n ganny tire par Onorab Georges li menm, e ki'n ganny re Gazete.

E sa napa naryen pou fer avek ou Mr Speaker, mon le met lo rikord.

Be poudir Onorab Georges i dir koumsa anba Konstitisyon, ou ek mwan nou sa bezwen konsilte.

ki'n arive se ki nou'n konsilte nou.

Nou’n konsilte e nou ti'n agree lo lekel bann Bills ki pe vini.

E sa enn pa ti ankor donn nou en lendikasyon kan i pe retournen.
Mon pe met sa lo rikord ki Lasanble pa ganny mislead - (pa ou Mr Speaker)- Lasanble pa ganny mislead.

Lasanble pou Be mon bezwen dir ki mon apresye ki ou senpatiz avek largiman ki mon pe anmennen vizavi sa 7 day requirement.

E mon ti ava apresye kote Gouvernman, pa akoz i annan en mazorite ki i krwar i pou bulldoze dan Lasanble.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

son way ki lo HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY MR SPEAKER 4 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Mersi, nou a termin la.
Mon a apel Manm pou vot lo sa Mosyon pou waive 7 days’ notice.

Manm ki an faver lev lanmen silvouple?

Mersi.

Manm ki kont?

Lo Mosyon pou waive 7 days’ requirement pou Second Reading of Public Enterprises Bill, 2023 in ganny 16 Manm in vot pour, 0 kont, e 8 abstansyon.

Donk Mosyon in ganny aksepte par Lasanble, e nou a prosede avek sa Bill.

Mon a raporter demann madanm son e apel Minis pou delegasyon sa Bill silvouple.
pou e Bonzour byenveni Minis Naadir Hassan, Minis pour Finans, Plan Nasyonal e Komers.

E mon egalman swet bonzour e byenveni Mr Kalum Bandara, Acting CEO pour Public Enterprises Monitoring Commission.

Mrs Irene Croise, Executive Director dan Biro Sekreter Deta dan Minister Irene Sirame, Finans.

Mrs Reprezantan Biro Attorney General.

E nou osi annan a kote Mrs Collette Jean-Louis, Principal Business Analyst dan Public Enterprises Monitoring Commission.
dan Mersi pou zot prezans e pou zot partisipasyon lo sa Bill.

Nou a prezan pran Mosyon pou pran Second Reading sa Bill.

Lo kote mazorite lekol ki ansarz sa Bill ozordi?

Onorab Georges?

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, bonzour.

Bonzour Minis avek ou delegasyon.

Mr Speaker, anba Order 69 (2), mon move ki the Public Enterprises Bill, 2023, i ganny lir en Dezyenm Fwa.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Mon segonnman pou silvouple.

Onorab Esparon?


ganny sa Bill a HON REGINA ESPARON Mersi Mr Speaker, mon segonde ki pou ki sa Bill i ganny lir en Dezyenm Fwa, mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi, Mosyon in ganny segonde.

Nou kapab prosede avek Bill.

Mon envit Minis pou fer son lentrodiksyon lo Bill.

Minis, ou annan laparol.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Dirizan Lopozisyon, bonzour Dirizan Zafer Gouvernman.

Bonzour tou bann Manm Onorab, e bonzour tou dimoun a lekout.
Mr Speaker, ozordi dan Sesel i annan 31 lantrepriz piblik, ki enkli subsidiaries ki pe fonksyonn dan 14 sekter ki pe kontribye dan diferan laspe devlopman lo pei.

5 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 lantrepriz piblik Pou komanse permet mwan pou prezant avek Lasanble, statistik pou montre lantrepriz piblik lenportans dan Sesel.

Lafen Desanm, 2021, ti annan en an total R35.6bilyon an term byen, ki vo plis ki 150poursan prodwi domestik brit, (GDP).
Sa bann lantrepriz i osi anploy 7mil558 endividi ki reprezant 15poursan lafors travayer dan nou pei.

ti ki en piblik An term dividend, bann pey lantrepriz sonm Gouvernman R687milyon ekivalan 84poursan reveni ki pa tax.

An plis, bann lantrepriz biblik i zwe en gran rol esansyel, pou form en lekonomi balanse, e osi pou kontribye anver devlopman sosyal ki relye avek devlopman lenfrastriktir.
Provizyon servis piblik, marse ki annan konpetisyon balanse, byennet servis finansyel, lenerzi, e osi bann servis litilite piblik.

sosyal, lye avek Mr Speaker, i pa en sekre ki bann lantrepriz piblik i en topik plizyer alegasyon dan lepase.

Sa bann alegasyon i enkli; lenterferans, latransparans, mankman mankman kont, rann mankman bonn gouvernans, meritokrasi, mankan mankman konpetisyon, inefikasite dan loperasyon e e performans finansyel, distorsyon dan marse, parmi lezot.
Koman en Gouvernman responsab, i nou devwar pou adres risk alegasyon e defi ki asosye ek bann lantrepriz piblik.

Pou adres sa bann defi, nou devret enplimant en striktir bonn gouvernans solid ki ankouraz latransparans e rann bann lapwentman ki baze lo merit, e etablir sirveyans e sipervizyon ki efikas dan bann lantrepriz piblik.
kont, asir ki relye Mr Speaker, An prenon bann mezir e aksyon proaktiv, nou pe asire ki i annan en amelyorasyon loperasyon e efikasite dan bann lantrepriz piblik, e zot abilite pou rann kont.

Sa i pou osi ede redwir lenplikasyon negativ avek mankman bonn gouvernans.

i annan serten lantrepriz piblik dan Sesel ki’n ganny etablir plizyer lannen pase, e serten ki'n ganny enkorpore resaman.

Pandan bann lannen, bokou sanzman legal e ekonomik in arive lokalman, e osi lo lasenn enternasyonal.
difikilte Apre ti ekonomik eksperyanse 2008, Gouvernman in pran plizyer linisyativ Progranm anba Reform dan Sekter Servis entrodwi kad Piblik pou sipervizyon Lezislatif sa ki nou pou an 6 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 efikas dan bann lantrepriz piblik Sesel.

Pandan lannen 2013, Lasanble Nasyonal ti aprouv Public Enterprise Monitoring koman Commission premye Lalwa dan Sesel pour sirvey kad gouvernans pour antrepriz i ankor piblik.

Sa Lalwa anfors.
Sa Lalwa anfors.

etablir Act, e e asosye Mr Speaker, avek plizyer langazman kontinyel avek bann parti konsernen, e bann evalyasyon ki ekspoz defi e avek loportinite lantrepriz piblik, Gouvernman i rekonnet en nesesite pou entrodwi nouvo Lezislasyon pou ranforsi e solidifye bonn latransparans, gouvernans, performans efikasite lantrepriz piblik, anliny avek nouvo striktir gouvernans.

Sa linisyativ i enn bann priyorite stratezi ki Gouvernman in promet sa Lasanble pandan Ladres Bidze 2023.
Mr Speaker, koman Minis pour Finans, mon annan gran loner pou prezant nouvo Prozedlwa Lantrepriz Piblik, 2023 devan Lasanble.
Sa Prozedlwa i annan pou lobzektif; 1) Anil Lalwa Public Enterprise Commission Act, 2013, Komisyon Lantrepriz Piblik, i kontinyen siperviz piblik, lantrepriz bann ranforsi sirveyans striktir bonn gouvernans dan bann e piblik, fer lantrepriz provizyon pou kouver bann lezot sityasyon ki kapab arive avek relasyon an fonksyonnman Komisyon Lantrepriz Piblik, ou bann lantrepriz piblik zot menm.
Mr Speaker, anliny avek nouvo bonn striktir gouvernans, Gouvernman pe rod laprouvasyon Lasanble pou sa nouvo Prozedlwa pou sanzman Polisi enplimant signifikan dan gouvernans e sirveyans lantrepriz piblik dan Sesel.

Sa bann sanzman propoze i enkli; 1) Ki sa nouvo Prozedlwa i ganny servi koman en Lalwa komen ki donn provizyon lantrepriz aplikab pou tou piblik dan en sel Lalwa.

Sa i pou elimin kontradiksyon bann provizyon dan bann Lalwa Lantrepriz Piblik.
Apre laprouvasyon sa Prozedlwa, tou Lalwa ki etablir bann lantrepriz piblik pou ganny revize, pou asire ki bann provizyon zeneral ki’n ganny enkli dan zot Lalwa, i ganny retire.

Me ki bann provizyon spesifik aplikab pou sak i ganny mentenir.

letablisman, sa Atraver nouvo Prozedlwa, pou annan nouvo prensip bonn gouvernans ki enkli; Kreasyon Komite Dominasyon Nasyonal bann lapwentman pou zouti ek 7 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 konpetitiv Direkter lo Board.
En prosedir seleksyon pou anploy Sef Egzekitif dan lantrepriz piblik, etablir en relasyon e rol kler pou bann parti konsernen, tel parey; PEMC, Board Direkter e Sef Egzekitiv bann lantrepriz kapasite piblik.

Ranforsi lantrepriz Board Direkter piblik bonn gouvernans ek sirveyans bann biznes.

pou asir Etablir provizyon kalifikasyon e diskalifikasyon pou bann manm Board Direkter, e Sef Egzekitiv dan bann lantrepriz piblik.
Fer provizyon pou en code gouvernans antrepriz piblik, stratezik, lentansyon korperasyon, e plan anyel pou bann lantrepriz piblik.

plan Fer provizyon pou bann lo Lagreman ek edikater performans bann manm Board ek Sef Egzekitiv dan bann lantrepriz piblik.

Fer provizyon, pran en letan rezonnab pou bann rapor par bann lantrepriz piblik.

Fer kreasyon piblik.


provizyon bann pou lantrepriz Fer provizyon pou konsekans ek sarz pou bann lofans ek non-konformite, e okenn lezot sanzman kle ki permet lantrepriz piblik pou ganny gouvernen e sirveye dan en fason efikas.

Mr Speaker, pou terminen, sa nouvo Prozedlwa Lantrepriz Piblik, i ofer en striktir armonize e kler pou bonn gouvernans e sirveyans.

E ranforsi pou fonksyonnman sipervizyon ki soutenab pou bann lantrepriz piblik.
osi Lo sa note Mr Speaker, mon fer lapel avek Lasanble pou donn zot laprouvasyon pou sa nouvo Prozedlwa; Lantrepriz Piblik, 2023.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

pou MR SPEAKER ou Mersi Minis lentrodiksyon.

Deba i ava aprezan ouver pou bann Manm entervenir.

Mon rapel bann Manm - mon fer en lapel ankor enn fwa pou zot reste lo size sa Bill silvouple, akoz tou de pa ki zot fer i permet en lot dimoun pran lokazyon pou reponn, e i extend.

Mon krwar sa i gran febles nou Lasanble an se moman.

E mon ava fer sa lapel.


Donk nou a komans entervansyon bann Manm.

Onorab Hoareau?

Si ou'n pare?

Wi?

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Bonzour tou dimoun a lekout, bonzour Minis ek ou lekip, e mon bann ser koleg.

8 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Bill ki devan nou i parey en lakle pou ogmant e ranforsi bonn gouvernans, e rann kont dan bann lantrepriz piblik.
A plizyer moman, letan ki Prezidan ti Leader Lopozisyon dan 6enm Lasanble, i pa'n mank loportinite pou eksprim son dezapwentman lo bann lantrepriz piblik, ki ti zer sa biznes konmsi bann pti lanpir ki personn pa ti kapab touse, oubyen annan en dwa de regar lo sa ki ti pe arive.

I pa en sirpriz ki serten SOEs parey IDC, SEYPEC, Linyon Estate, e plizyer lezot ankor, a en serten pwen dan lepase, personn pa ti kapab kestyonnen e demande.

Ki pe arive lo nou bann zil?

Ki pe arive avek nou bann tankers?


Ki pe arive lo nou La Digue, ensidswit.

SOEs Serten ti fonksyonn parey bann pti lanperer kot zot souvandfwa ti form bann pti click Senior Management ki ti ede pou kasyet lenformasyon e sa ki pe arive.

Mon pa pe dir ki zerans sa bann lantrepriz piblik ti fason fer dan en ganny koronpi, non.

Me sa ki mon pe fer resorti se ki ti napa latransparans, e sa in fer ki pep Seselwa in touzour spekile lo kwa ki ti pe arive.
Prezidan toultan demande ki bann lantrepriz piblik i ganny zere dan en in ou par fason, kot i annan en lodit ki ganny en fer lorganizasyon, oditer endepandan.

E ki rapor anyel zot zerans bann lantrepriz i ganny prezante avek Lasanble.

Sa i donn nou Lasanble, ki enn parmi sa 3 lebra gouvernans nou pei, sa loportinite atraver sa FPAC, dokiman.

E si neseser, pou vwar ki fason larzan Lepep i ganny depanse.

depouy pou E sa i en keksoz enportan ki sa Lalwa in anmennen.

Zisteman i a pe reponn sa lapel.


Annefe pwen for sa Bill, se ki pe entrodwi ek Komisyon ek bann Komisyoner ki pou travay anba en kad legal pou standardiz diferan prosedir oversight pou sa 27 lantrepriz Leta ki tonm anba sa Schedule 1. bann E sa i enkli lafason bann odit i ganny fer.

Lekel ki diriz bann lenvestigasyon dan bann lantrepriz?

Kan ki bann rapor anyel i ganny prodwi?

Ki fason bann assets e sa lantrepriz i lafason ki ganny vann, e dividend i remet avek son shareholder ki Gouvernman.
I enportan pou note Mr Speaker, ki sa Gouvernman LDS ki o pouvwar, i krwar dan latransparans, rann kont e bonn gouvernans, ki anglob lafason fer ki keksoz i fer Sesel e ki benefisye Lepep Seselwa kot ganny eliminen.

koripsyon i 9 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 e bann Nou bezwen fer de sort ki bann lantrepriz piblik i met an pratik bann standar pli o posib, best international practices.
Sa i pou fer ki Sesel i kontinyen lo nivo ganny sa mondyal koman en pei ki servi byen son resours a benefis son pep.

respe Mr Speaker, i vreman enportan, akoz defwa led enternasyonal i baze lo lafason ki bann Lalwa i met bann gardfou pou fer sir ki larzan bann bailleur de fond i ganny byen servi, e dan en fason kot nou minimiz koripsyon.
Mr Speaker, sa Lalwa i enn ki'n pran kont bokou bann problenm ki'n arive dan lepase, avek bi pou sey met bann SOEs annord avek bann prensip bonn gouvernans ki ganny promouvwar dan en dokiman ki apel the Code of Corporate Governance of Public Enterprises.

Par egzanp, nou'n vwar kot serten SOEs ki'n vann serten asset a en valer ki in laprouvasyon ek son pran Board, me Board pa'n fer konnen Minis Finans.

Minis ki responsab sa lantrepriz.


Dan ki ka, Gouvernman sa sa prensipal shareholder lantrepriz, pa ti konnen ki sa lantrepriz pe vann, e akoz tel tranzaksyon.

Sa Bill in fer provizyon ki en sub-committee ki apel en Disposal Committee, i diskite kwa ki pou ganny vann, e i obligatwar pou Board sa lantrepriz fer konnen Minis ki responsab li, sak asset ki pe vann si i par lao R1milyon purchase value.
An dizan sa, Mr Speaker, mon ti a kontan ki Minis dan son larepons, i dir nou ki fason in ariv lo sa valer 1million purchase value, ki dan Clause 90 (4).

Akoz lenkyetid ki mon annan se ki pa tou lantrepriz ki son total asset value i parey.

Alor i annan bann lantrepriz ki son asset i gran parey Air Seychelles oubyen SEYPEC ek Tankers.

Tandis ki i annan lezot lantrepriz, parey Linyon Estate kot zot valer company assets i pli ba a en pti valer, zeneralman.
Kwa ki fer sa purchase value 1milyon vin sa norm ki zot in deside?

Alor Minis si dan son repons i ti kapab donn nou sa bann leklersisman.

Mr Speaker, dan en dezyenm pwen mon le fer resorti, se dan legzanp kot sa Lalwa in amelyor kondisyon bann lafason ki bann PEMCs i zere.

Mr Speaker, nou konnen poudir i annan bokou bann PEMCs ki pa ti pe donn okenn dividend Leta.

I annan ki ti pe donnen, i annan ki pa ti pe donnen.
E par rapor avek zot groser e kantite larzan ki zot fer, i pa ti toultan reflekte sa bon formilasyon dan biznes.

10 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 provizyon Alor ki zot ti fer, serten, zot ti akimil bokou larzan lo zot kont.

Sa Bill dezormen pe ki Board fer Lantrepriz dan son AGM, i fer bann proposal lo distribisyon son profi, koman bann dividend pou Gouvernman.

Byensir an prenon kont ki reveni ki pou bezwen pou li reenvesti pou kit son biznes soutenab, e konpetitiv.
Mr Speaker, apre tou Gouvernman in kree bann SOEs avek bi pou li rann en servis dan pei, e osi pou fer profi, pou premyerman kit li soutenab parey mon'n dir, e pou li osi anmenn valer azoute pou shareholder ki Gouvernman.

son Alor, i toutafe normal ki zot re patri serten larzan an plis dan kof Leta, ki i a kontinyen siport devlopman pei.

Parey Air Seychelles, Mr Speaker, ki ti pe faid anba Gouvernman US, e son staff ti bezwen pran pay cut.
Me ozordi nou vwar ki Air nouvo Seychelles management, e anba bann Lalwa ki pe ganny propoze, in osi fer serten demars pou li kapab gère son lakonpannyen dan en fason profitab.

anba E la Air Seychelles mon fyer pou dir i a pe pey Gouvernman dividends.

An konklizyon, mon pou dir ki sa Lalwa in vin a en letan oporten, e osi vin koman en pwen kardinal pou nou demokrasi.

Sirtou apre 30an Laniverser Konstitisyon Lasanble Nasyonal, kot nou pei pe konsolid son demokrasi e bonn gouvernans.
e en E en letan kot nou pe osi analiz nou Konstitisyon, pou gete si vreman i pe delivre lo sa pou gouvernans kalite soutenir demokrasi modern, parey motto ou Lasanble i dir.

Mon konnen ki sa Lalwa i pou anmenn en kad legal pou pli bon zerans bann lantrepriz piblik.

Alor mon pou demann tou mon bann Manm, e tou koleg dan Lasanble pou vot an faver sa Lalwa.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Mon a donn laparol Georges Onorab Romain.

HON GEORGES ROMAIN Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Mr Speaker.
Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Bonzour minis ek ou delegasyon.

Bonzour tou Manm koleg Onorab, e tou dimoun a lekout.

Mr Speaker, ler mon pe regard sa Bill devan nou, mon vwar ki i pe anmenn en gran amelyorasyon dan lafason ki bann lantrepriz piblik, ki Gouvernman i annan ladan pou ganny lentere gouvernen.
Premyerman, sa ki nou ki bezwen mazinen Gouvernman ki prensipalman annan lentere dan sa bann se 11 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 antite, e alor i bezwen fer sir ki i annan en bon lizye lo leta sa bann antite e lafason ki zot pe opere.

Mr Speaker, menm si sa bann antite i annan en Board ki annan responsabilite pou fer sir ki sa antite pe byen performen, sa Bill pa pe propoze ki PEMC i vin ranplas zot.
Me o kontrer Gouvernman pe anmenn en Lalwa, kot antite vin PEMC endepandan ki pou zwe en rol ki pou konplimant rol ki Board i zwe.

en i E sa Mr Speaker, i pou neseser pou plizyer rezon.

An vi ki PEMC i endepandan, sa pou en ede pou donn evalyasyon ki pou obzektif enparsyal, e ki pou napa okenn konfli lentere koman en Komisyon an deor.

I pou kapab zwe sa rol tre byen.


Mr Speaker, PEMC i osi zwe en rol enportan pou donn en lasirans Gouvernman, ki bann lantrepriz piblik i osi swiv bann Lalwa, regilasyon e Polisi Gouvernman ki an plas.

Wi, zot Board i sipoze pe regard performans, Polisi e stratezi zot lakonpannyen.

Me PEMC i azout en lot nivo proteksyon ki pou asire ki sa bann antite pe ganny zere dan en lankadreman legal, e pe onor zot lobligasyon anver Gouvernman korekteman.
Mr Speaker, ler ou annan en lot lizye ki pe regard en pli kont antite, i fer sir ki sa bann antite piblik i vin pli alert, e dan en pozisyon pou zot rann ek bon en Gouvernman.

Ler PEMC i evalye zot performans, i pou ede pou zet en dezyenm regar lo lafason ki zot zer zot finans.

Asire ki i annan latransparans dan zot loperasyon, e osi redwi risk okenn koripsyon ki kapab annan avek resours piblik.

Sa enportan, Mr i Speaker.


vreman Annou pran legzanp Air Seychelles ki i osi enn sa bann lantrepriz ki'n pas dan bokou difikilte finansyer, akoz bann desizyon ki pa'n byen kalkile.

Menm avek zot Board, zot ti met pei dan en risk kot nou'n vwar Gouvernman ki'n bezwen entervenir pou redres sa sityasyon.

Avek plis pouvwar ki PEMC pe gannyen ozordi, sa i pou ed Gouvernman pou pli byen konnen ki pe arive dan sa lakonpannyen, pou evite vwar li dan sa bann tel sityasyon.
Mr Speaker, annou pa bliye ki PEMC i annan plizyer endividi avek lekspertiz dan plizyer sekter, tel koman; Finans, Lodit, Gouvernans, Ladministrasyon Piblik.

E ki tou sa i a ede pou ranforsi konesans PEMC, koman sa antite ki pe zet en koudey lo sa bann lantrepriz piblik, ki a fer sa prosesis vin pli efektiv.

Me annou pa bliye, ki PEMC son rol i pli lwen ki zis 12 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 sa bann lantrepriz piblik lo zot menm.
I bezwen osi fer son analiz an gro pou regard lantrepriz performans bann piblik an zeneral, pou vwar ki bann defi ki zot pe rankontre koman en group.

Ki kantite dividends ki Gouvernman i ekspekte kolekte ek sa bann antite?

Ki bor i devret annan amelyorasyon lo nivo nasyonal pou ed sa bann antite, e osi pou pli byen kapab konsey Gouvernman.
Mr pou Gouvernman i enportan ki zot annan ki endepandan avek Board pou donn li en kontrandi, i pou demontre ki Gouvernman i annan sistenm an plas pou asire ki larzan piblik pe byen ganny servi, e i pou osi demontre ki Gouvernman i annan komikman pou vwar latransparans dan sa bann antite.

Speaker, antite sa Sa i ava ede pou ogmant konfyans ki piblik, Sekter Prive e lenvestiser i annan dan sa bann lantrepriz.
Alors Mr Speaker, mon pou siport en tel Bill ki mon vwar i pe anmenn bokou plis pouvwar avek PEMC pou fer son travay pli efektiv, e donn Gouvernman garanti ki son lentere pe byen ganny proteze.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER envit Mersi Onorab.

Mon…Napa Manm ki'n lev lanmen pou entervenir lo sa Bill, so mon ti bann Manm ava silvouple.

Sa ki annan nide entervenir.

Wi mon'n war Onorab Loze in fek leve la.

Silvouple, pa esper lo dernyen moman.

Onorab Loze, ou annan laparol.


HON JOHAN LOZE Ah, mersi Mr Speaker, avek plezir.

Mr Speaker, pou konmanse mon le etablir en baz.

Annou etablir en keksoz byen kler isi, mwan koman en Manm Lasanble Nasyonal, mon osi en Manm Bills Committee Lasanble Nasyonal.

E mon fer mon travay ki mon Caucus in konfye mwan pou fer fas avek Bills Committee.

Nou fer sesyon, nou zwenn avek sponsor Bills.

Nou asize, nou lir Bill, nou korize, nou pas atraver.
E au fait sa enn ki devan nou, nou'n fer nou en gro travay to the point kot Bills Committee ti finalman ek bezwen Gouvernman pou li withdraw son Bill, korize, re Gazete, re anmenn devan Lasanble.

demann Mr Speaker, mon en dimoun ki mon asize mon lir mon Bill, e mon pa aksepte okenn dimoun okenn a moman vini akiz mwan konmkwa mon pa lir Bills.

Mon lir Bill to the point ki mon al tir bann keksoz obscure dan 13 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 en Bill.
Sitan obscure ki Mr Chair ouswa Mr Deputy Chair ler mon fer sorti sa bann keksoz zot dir, ok tire sa enn.

Tire silvouple, tire.

vin krwar E mon pick up keksoz ki en mon i kontribisyon pou strengthen the Bill.

E, sa i ganny fer senpleman dan nide ki pei i ganny en pli bon Lalwa.

I ganny fer avek lespri ki nou naz zaviron nou tou dan nou prop fason.

Nou pran en gal banbou nou pik anba dan delo, dan labou.

Zis pou pous kartye maron sa pei ki apel Sesel en pe pli devan pou benefisye nou pei e nou pep.
So, nou lir Bill.

- Now, Mr Speaker mwan, mon pa apresye ki dimoun i vini i akiz mwan ki mon pa'n lir Bill, akoz zot pa kontan lafason ki mon koz lo Bill.

Mon pou koz lo Bill lafason ki mwan mon koz lo Bill, as long as ki mon pe mentenir respe pou Lasanble, pou popilasyon Sesel, e pou esansyelman the Chair of the House.

Mwan, mon pa dwa okenn madanm okenn papye ki mon pa ankor rann li.

Alors, mon koz lo Bill dan lafason ki mon koze.


Mr Speaker, en keksoz ki nou bezwen etablir, se ki en kantite travay in ganny fer lo sa Bill.

E ki dan lesansyel i en morso Lezislasyon ki pei i bezwen.

Pei i bezwen pou divers rezon.

Pa pou zis lepase, akoz mon krwar nou tant pou bloke dan sa pei avek sa 43an ki'n pase.

Nou pa pe diriz en pei ver 43an pase nou.

Nou pe diriz en pei ver le fitir.

Nou bezwen sa Bill pou nou annan en direksyon kler dan lafason ki nou anvi gid e diriz nou pei ver le fitir.
E mon santi ki posibleman sa Bill i kapab kontribye ver en greater vision pou sa pei ki LDS i manke dan son bann leaders.

So, posibleman vizyon i a vin atraver Lezislasyon.

Akoz zot leadership, zot pas tou zot letan koz lo 43an pase, ouswa in ariv dan sa si keksoz dernyen 2an ou non.

E pou sa rezon mon santi ki Bill li menm i neseser, e i bezwen ganny anmennen la dan sa moman ki Bill in ganny anmennen.

E Mr Speaker, i annan en keksoz selman ki mon pa'n konpran kot in sorti la ozordi bomaten.
Koman deba in komanse, mon'n tann size Mr Benoiton in leve.

Zot pa'n nonm son non, selman zot in dir pou dir i annan en CEO ti vann en asset Gouvernman, e Minis pa ti'n ganny enformen.

Mr Speaker, be Minis i pa reprezante lo sa Board?

Son Minister pa reprezante lo sa Board?

Napa en reprezantan Minister Finans lo sa Board ki ozordi nou ganny dir Board pa'n enform Minis?

14 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Prezan mon kestyonnen, serten zot bann lentansyon.
Sa i leve out of the blue la lo bomaten, personn pa'n lev sa size, zis sa i leve.

Prezan mon pe wonder, kwa ki pe pase?

Akoz sa zafer tanker i leve la bomaten?

E nou tou nou'n konnen ki la Sesel nou'n vwar Minis vin lo televizyon, vin demann nou oli sa pti tanker ki ti la?

Pti lera in pran.

Ki semen i ti pase?

Pti semen ouswa gran semen?

Apre tanker in reaparet.

E dan sa process - dan sa process - e zot ki'n entrodwi sa size la bomaten Mr Speaker - repitasyon a good man in ganny detri.
Repitasyon Mr Benoiton en dimoun ki'n serve son pei, e son Gouvernman throughout his entire career, in ganny detri!

E personn pa'n zanmen nobou kapab posed kouraz, vin devan pou dir ki sa ki sa msye ti fer ti legal.

Ti napa naryen mal dan sa ki'n fer.

I pa'n fer okenn trik.

E la ozordi nou ouver boubou en dimoun ankor, apre ki personn parmi nou la pa'n kapab korize.
Be prezan letan ou pe get sa Bill la, sa Disposal Committee ki'n leve la, ki'n mete, la prezan ou konpran poudir zot pe go back, zot pe koriz sa ki zot ti fer an relasyon avek Mr Benoiton.

The Bill itself is very good.

Mon napa problenm ek sa Bill mwan.


Be selman mon vwar zot pe entrodwi bann eleman ladan, parey sa Disposal Committee, parey 44 (1) ki prezan pe dir ou pou dir Minister i kapab proklanm en ki nenport statutory corporation, pou tonm anba public enterprise, ki at the time SEYPEC li ti en lakonpannyen anrezistre anba Companies Act.

Mon vwar zot la pe go back, pe walk back sa bann fot ki zot in fer.

Be si zot in fer fot, zot pa ti kapab piblikman klersi non sa dimoun?
Zot retournen ankor la bomaten son pou repitasyon?

Ki frazilite ki zot annan?

How fragile is this Minister?

further gat lo en mon bezwen Be kestyonnen keksoz koumsa.

Akoz Minis i annan en labitid li, Mr Speaker.

In deza mont televizyon deklare ki i annan 86 loto in perdi State House, apre sa in die down in go quiet.

I paret ki Minister mwan gets passionate certain about subjects.

I vini i dir nenport kwa.

But in this case, you cost a man his reputation.

Put aside you cost him his job.


Zot in sali repitasyon Mr Benoiton, e la zot vini ankor bomaten zot ouver sa menm boubou?

E sa Bill la, sa Bill i en bon Bill apart sa bann bout ki zot in met ladan la.

Mon pa 15 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 li konnen si mon prezan mon pou apel the Benoiton Vindication Act, ler i pase, ouswa si i pou vin the Hassan Walk of Shame Act.

Akoz la in vin en Walk of Shame Act la prezan.


La in vin lakanmizri sa ki zot in fer ki prezan zot pe sey go back pou al sey eklersi.

Be sa i pa fason pou run en pei sa.

Sa i pa fason pou run en pei.

Mon, mon pa ti pe al koz lo sa size ozordi bomaten.

Zot ki'n konmanse.

Zot ki'n entrodwi size.

Byen boner zot premye Speaker, i vin zwe dan boubou en dimoun!

Mon'n kontribye mwan lo Bills Committee pou aranz sa Bill, e zot konn tre byen.
I annan en kantite keksoz defwa nou war dan Bill, mon zis smile mon get bann teknisyen, mon dir zot, zot asire zot anvi al ek sa lo floor zot?

Zot anvi LOTO tyonbo sa ler i lo floor?

E mon fer sa dan lentere pou aranz Bill.

Be zot toultan i paret mwan zot annan en kek keksoz par deryer zot latet.

Zot annan en bann bout anplis, en bann bout ekstra ki zot bezwen mete pou fer pli gou.

You’ve wronged a person!

Zot in mal fer anver li.


E letan mon get sa Bill la ozordi, i kler ki Mr Benoiton ti napa okenn obligasyon legal pou azir dan lafason ki zot, zot ti mont lo televizyon pe tonm kriz pe dir li i ti'n devret azir.

I ti napa.

Prezan ki zot pe mete.

Ozordi ki zot pe entrodwi dan Bill.

partou Sa bann lobligasyon ki back then zot ti sanksyonn li, ti pini li.

Zot bann dimoun ti monte piblikman denons li, maltret li, akoz en dimoun.

En Minis pa'n kapab kontrol son lemosyon.


E la ozordi nou Lasanble, i pou ganny servi pou further towards saccage contribute repitasyon en dimoun.

Sa mon pa kapab aksepte.

Mon pa kapab aksepte sa.

Mon krwar sa Msye i deserve en public apology.

I deserve son repitasyon ganny salvaged par sa dimoun, ki li menm in sali repitasyon sa msye, ki prezan i pe sey salvage pou li ozordi atraver sa Bill?

E mon swete.

Mon swete ki sa i ava ganny fer avan ki sa lazournen travay in terminen.
Mr Speaker, mon pou terminen lo sa bout.

Mon ti ann swete kapab koz dan en lot fason ozordi, be selman nou tou nou santi nou for lo serten size defwa letan i occur.

Zis parey yer mon ti ganny dir pou dir mon mefyans i avek mwan.

Mefyans i ek mwan, selman zot, zot pe negosye ek trwazyenm lafors.

Lizour zot LDS, aswar zot trwazyenm lafors, selman mefyans i ek mwan.

I hope ou'n tande ki mon'n dir la Mr Speaker, mon 16 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 pa pou repete.
Ler Loze i koze tande!

Mr Speaker, nou bezwen bouz de l'avant dan fason ki benefisye nou pei senpleman.

Pir e senp.

Nou bezwen bouz de l'avant avek bann azanda ki zis pou pei.

Nou bezwen aret annan bann Lalwa ki vini akoz nou anvi fer martir kelken, fer malis sa lot.

Nou bezwen aret vin ek bann Lalwa ki pou vin ozordi pou ganny servi devan Lakour demen, pou pini entel ouswa entel.

fay.

Be Nou bezwen aret annan sa bann sityasyon ki nou pe war devan nou ozordi.
Ler zot anmenn Lezislasyon, vin avek en leker prop ek en lentansyon kler ki prop.

Mon konnen mon ganny dir pou dir mon dan en Lopozisyon sa Lopozisyon fay la Mr Speaker, i en Lopozisyon kot mon kapab koz onnet, fran, kler e net.

Mon kapab dir sa ki lo mon leker.

Mon pa vin en peroke pou repet naryen.

Ler Loze i koze, Loze ki koze.

E sa Lopozisyon fay la, in anmenn zot pou zot swiv li donn goute zanfan lekol.

Sa Lopozisyon fay in lead zot, in fer zot fer sa ki li i ti anvi zot fer.
Ozordi, tou zanfan Sesel pe manz en goute gras a sa Lopozisyon fay.

E ozordi nou koz linite dan sa pei.

Koman zot fini koze zot vire zot zour mon gran ser.

i translate Zot dir pou dir aktivis i donn hmm.

Be!

Mwan mon ti a kontan si sa parol linite i vin en vre linite.

E si sa bann parol linite, bon gouvernans, bon zesyon dan Lezislasyon ki vin san okenn easter eggs, hidden agenda, latrap ladan, parey mon trouve ozordi.

Vin ek en leker pir.

Vin ek en leker prop.


Pa vin koriz zot bann fot atraver Lezislasyon.

Pa vin kasyet zot atraver pese Lezislasyon.

Mr Speaker.

personnel Mersi MR SPEAKER Mersi Hoareau ki size oule.?

Onorab.

Onorab HON JOHN HOAREAU Mon annan en point of order Mr Speaker, anba 59 (7)(d), kot Onorab impute improper motive pou dir ki nou pe Benoiton, ensidswit.

In anmenn non Mr Benoiton dan sa deba.


akiz Mr Loze in Mr Speaker, i kler ki ler mon'n fer mon lentervansyon mon'n koz an zeneral lo bann lantrepriz ki vann asset Gouvernman, e ki zot annan en responsabilite pou zot konnen Board fer zot Gouvernman lantrepriz pe vann serten asset ki sizeable, ki valuable.

Mon pa'n nonm dan okenn fwa Mr Benoiton, e mwan mon poudir 17 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 annan en gran respe pou Mr Benoiton parske mon konn li personnelman.
I en zanmi pou mwan, e mon pa'n zanmen akiz Mr Benoiton pou okenn keksoz ki li i pe dir.

I pe met sa non sa msye into disrepute la.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Mersi.

Pwen ou point of order ki Onorab Loze in impute improper motives, i en pe difisil pou mwan.

Selman mon ava aksepte ou komanter koman en klarifikasyon ki ou pa'n fer okenn alegasyon kont Mr ava Benoiton.

Alor nou aksepte li koumsa.

Mersi.

Onorab Cosgrow?

ou HON WALLACE COSGROW Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Minis.


Bonzour delegasyon.

Bonzour tou manm Onorab e bonzour tou piblik Seselwa ki pe ekoute.

Mr Speaker i domaz, mon bezwen, vi ki personn pa le lev lanmen lo kote Zot Gouvernman.

anmenn zot Bill, e zot pa pe lev lanmen.

(Interruption) HON WALLACE COSGROW I domaz.

I domaz… MR SPEAKER Silvouple!

Nou a gard lord.

Onorab, kontinyen avek ou ladres.

HON WALLACE COSGROW Mersi Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker, i paret mwan zot kanmi zot prop Bill, e zot pe mank respe pou ou Speaker, ozordi bomaten.

Mr Speaker, ozordi mon pran laparol, ankor mon pou refer lo mon dezapwentman ki mon ti refer yer ler nou ti pe koz lo sa Bill Criminal Procedure Code ki ti vin devan Lasanble.

pe Dezapwente Mr Speaker, akoz lafason ki ozordi biznes ganny Gouvernman antreprann dan Lasanble Nasyonal.
Lafason ki bann Bills pe vin ver Lasanble Nasyonal pou ganny diskite, sa landrwa kot bann Bills, bann Lalwa i sipoze ganny diskite, vreman mon dezapwente.

Ozordi mon zwenn avek Leader Lopozisyon dan son ladres ki'n fer bomaten an sa ki konsern désorganisation lo kote Gouvernman lot kote latab LDS, pou zot kapab annan en coherent system of anmenn devan Lasanble.

keksoz Mr Speaker, i enportan fer resorti ki ozordi pou mwan koman en Manm Bills Committee, mon war ki poudir Gouvernman napa en azanda.
Napa vreman en azanda, en 18 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Kalandriye Lezislatif koman en Manm Bills Committee.

e mon wish E yer nou'n fek diskit lo la, e Bills nou pe war i bezwen ganny fer First Reading ozordi.

Fer First Reading segonn apre ki'n fer First Reading.

Pou mwan sa i en dezapwentman total, ki Gouvernman- Minis ozordi i la i pe asize pe ekoute.

I ava anmenn sa konsern.


Mon, mon met li koman en konsern Lasanble Sa konsern devan Cabinet, devan son Prezidan Gouvernman pou dir zot, be, nou bezwen planifye pli byen bann keksoz ki'n anmenn devan Lasanble.

Nasyonal.

devan e Mon dir sa Mr Speaker, akoz ler nou ti koz lo sa Bill, ler nou ti pe get sa Bill dan Bills Committee, nou ti fer serten Parey rekomandasyon.

Onorab Loze in dir, nou'n get li lengthily e nou'n fer serten ti rekomandasyon.
E nou ekspekte ki Bill i ganny… Rekomandasyon ganny amande, e dapre Lagreman ki nou ti gannyen.

E ki sa ti ganny re gazete pou nou ganny sufficient notice pou nou kapab deal avek sa.

i si Me non, Mr Speaker.

Nou war ki poudir…Mon pa konnen bann…Serten lamannman ladan ki nou ti'n propoze ti bezwen ganny al diskite pli o, e ki pli o pa ti neseserman available pou kapab deal ek sa bann lamannman.
So, sanmenm sa prezan nou, sa i vin tonm lo Lasanble Nasyonal pou waive off - tou kalite waive ki nou bezwen waive, zis pou kapab fer ozordi sa Bill pase pou legzizans Gouvernman.

Mr Speaker, AG i drafte Lalwa li, en?

AG i drafte Lalwa, me par kont se bann Departman Gouvernman, se bann Minister ki vin avek Polisi Lalwa.

Se zot ki vin ek Polisi Lalwa.

Se zot ki bezwen… Zot ki vin avek lavyann pou met lo sa Lalwa si oule.

Me si ozordi nou pa pe war Lalwa vin devan Lasanble Nasyonal.
Pou mwan Mr Speaker, i mean zis en keksoz.

I en defayans.

En defayans sa Gouvernman ozordi.

Cabinet defayans, en En lenkonpetans of Ministers.

E mwan, mon rapel en serten letan kot zot ti met presyon lo Gouvernman avan, pou dir anvoy calendar of…Calendar Lezislatif.

Anvoy azanda Lezislatif.

E nou, nou ti bezwen fer sir nou travay.

Sa letan Lanvironnman mon rapel nou ti annan en lalis bann Lalwa ki nou ti bezwen travay pou vin devan Cabinet, pou fer sir vin devan Lasanble.
Ozordi nou pa pe war sa Mr Speaker.

E mwan, mon krwar, parey sa ki LOTO in dir bomaten, mon krwar sa demann ki LOTO in dir pou 19 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 press avek Gouvernman ki zot bezwen respekte Lasanble Nasyonal, e zot bezwen met keksoz annord pou nou kapab nou osi planifye nou lekor.

Ou pa kapab Gazette en Bill ozordi, ekspekte nou, nou deal avek ozordi.

80 paz!

Pou mwan, sa i pa akseptab.


Ki mannyer tou bann Manm la… Mwan, mon sanse mon lo Bills Committee, mon'n kapab war serten eleman sa Bill, menm si in ganny amande.

Be ki mannyer ou kapab ekspekte lezot Manm la ki pa lo Bills Committee, pou al antre dan 80 paz?

So, its very unfair lo par Lasanble Gouvernman, Mr Speaker.
Nasyonal gran, An dizan sa Mr Speaker, ler nou vin lo sa Bill li menm li, an zeneral lo provizyon sa Bill li menm li an zeneral, i pa… I gran keksoz napa kontansye ladan, si mon kapab dir, akoz i plizoumwen I en kontinyasyon PEMC.

letablisman plizoumwen anba serten lofis public enterprise… enterprise… La mon'n mank son non.

bann Establishment of public enterprises.

So, bann lofis CEO, bann Board, bann lezot keksoz.

E sa Lalwa, Mr Speaker, li menm li, parey mon'n dir sa bann fer provizyon.
E nou konnen poudir ozordi bann public enterprises… E Minis in dir dan son lentrodiksyon.

Zot deza pe kontribye signifikan dan Sesel.

lekonomi Signifikan.

En total en pe plis ki R6milyon… R600milyon, pardon, an term dividend ki antre dan kof Gouvernman.

E sa nou pe koz zis dividend.

Nou pa pe koz bann lezot retonbe.

Travayer ki ganny anploye.

Bann lezot spinoff ki annan lo lekonomi ki bann lantrepriz piblik i kontribye.

anba Me Mr Speaker, si nou get striktir sa bann lantrepriz.
Mazorite sa bann lantrepriz, zot bann konpannyen, zot bann anrezistre konpannyen.

E zot fonksyonn anba bann Lalwa lakonpannyen.

Zot fonksyonn parey en bann biznes e zot ganny Lalwa lakonpannyen, e zot ganny zere par zot bann Board.

gide par Sa Lalwa ki devan nou ozordi, Mr Speaker, i annan serten eleman ladan.

E mwan, mon bezwen dir mon santi ler nou ti pe get sa Lalwa, mon santi i annan serten eleman dan sa Lalwa ki pou mwan i bann pou restriktiv lakonpannyen.
I annan en eleman kontrol ki pe sorti Gouvernman Santral ki pou al ver sa bann lantrepriz piblik.

Nou'n tann bann kritik bomaten lo SOEs, e Onorab Hoareau in premye pou koze lo kote LDS.

Bann kritik ki zot in sa 20 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 fer lo bann lantrepriz piblik pandan sa bann dernyen letan ki… Sa bann letan ki lot Gouvernman ti o pouvwar.

Apre letan Onorab Loze in klarifye, nou'n war ki Onorab Hoareau in vitman klersi son pozisyon.
Be sa in toultan leka Mr Speaker, akoz zanmen zot kapab vin fran avek sa bann issues.

Tou kou in annan bann alegasyon, tou kou in annan bann koze, me mon krwar zot in realize.

Ozordi piblik i challenge zot.

I annan en kantite dimoun ki zot ti pe dir devret sorti, devret aret run lantrepriz lantrepriz, bann piblik, ki ozordi zot menm zot pe glorifye, Mr Speaker.

Zot in toultan dir serten keksoz, me zanmen zot in kapab substantiate sa ki zot pe dir.

Ozordi Onorab Loze in vini in dir fran.


In vini in dir fran.

Si zot ti annan serten keksoz mal, zot ti ava vini, zot ti ava fran, zot ti ava etablir.

E ozordi nou konnen poudir napa okenn naryen ki'n ganny etablir lo sa zafer, e ki sa bann dimoun pa neseserman dan mal.

Mr Speaker, sa Bill parey mon pe dir, i… Mon santi i annan en eleman kontrol sorti kot Gouvernman Santral, e pou sa bann lantrepriz piblik, e redwir sa freedom of ki mannyer zot bann operate koman enpoz lo lakonpannyen.
Akoz zot bann lakonpannyen, bezwen fer desizyon biznes.

Bezwen fer desizyon pou fer sir ki sa bann lakonpannyen i profitab.

zis pou Profitab pa zis pou zot, kontiny pa lakonpannyen, me profitab pou kapab run sa servis ki sa ouswa lakonpannyen korperasyon i deservi a piblik Seselwa, e osi a lekonomi Sesel.

Zot bezwen profitab pou osi kapab donn sa dividend ki nou’n taler, nonmen Gouvernman pou kapab met larzan dan kof Leta, pou kapab run pei.

Pou Minis dayer kapab run son bann progranm.


Me en kestyon ki mon ti a kontan poze, Mr Speaker, eski dan tou sa bann demars in annan konsiltasyon avek sa bann SOEs?

Eski nou annan bann konsiltasyon serye?

Eski nou annan bann konsiltasyon ek bann CEOs, ek bann Boards?

E si Minis i kapab dir nou ki zot bann pwennvi ler zot in fer sa bann konsiltasyon si in annan?
Akoz i ava enportan konnen, akoz mwan mon koz avek detrwa, e mon konnen i annan en kantite dimoun ki, zot pa kont en oversight, me zot kont or zot pa tro an faver par en ki Gouvernman.

Malgre Gouvernman sole the the main shareholder, lanmen is i forse 21 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 shareholder - sole shareholder - zot anvi - zot krwar ki poudir koman bann lantrepriz ki i fonksyonn parey biznes, bezwen annan serten leeway pou zot kapab fonksyonnen.
E sa Lalwa pou zot i en pe restriktiv.

I annan en pake reporting ladan ki zot bezwen al fer.

E i en Lalwa ki dan en sans, i en one size fits all.

Ozordi ou pe pran en menm Lalwa ou pe enpoz lo en lakonpannyen parey SEYPEC, ki ozordi i annan tou sort fer kalite kapasite pou diferan keksoz petet ki sa Lalwa i dir li.

Me selman ou annan ou en lot lantrepriz piblik parey Linyon Estate, par egzanp, ki pa neseserman annan sa bann kapasite pou zot kapab deal ek sa Lalwa.
li So, pou mwan mon krwar i en one-size-fits-all.

E, pa zis mwan.

Mon krwar i annan lezot dimoun osi ki share menm pwennvi, e ki petet zot bezwen asize gete ki mannyer zot aplik sa Lalwa avek bann diferan… Or aplik sa lantrepriz avek bann diferan lantrepriz piblik.

I annan en eleman dan Lalwa, Mr Speaker, avan mon terminen.

I annan en eleman dan Lalwa ki mon krwar i ranforsi sa ki mon pe dir an term eleman kontrol santral, e sa se 42 (1), Mr Speaker.

Seksyon 42(1), pouvwar Minis.


E mon, mon pa pou fer referans avek serten keksoz ki'n ganny dir bomaten, e mon santi ki petet 42(1) i a donn posibilite Minis, petet si i santi i annan serten keksoz ki pa'n neseserman al byen pou li aret lenvestigasyon.

Minis petet zot ava deside kwa petet ki mon pe koz lo la.

Zot ava sey konpran ki mon pe koz lo la.

sa Me seksyon Mr Speaker, pou mwan…E mon krwar Bills Committee nou ti fer sorti for 42(1), kot i donn Minis tro bokou pouvwar.

Tro bokou pouvwar.
Tro bokou pouvwar.

E si Minis demen bomaten i annan en lenvestigasyon ki pa pou dan son faver, ozordi Minis… Ou ozordi, demen i kapab en lot Minis.

E Minis i annan tro bokou pouvwar pou li kapab aret nenport ki lenvestigasyon ki pe go on dan bann lantrepriz piblik.

i santi si in Savedir en ganny lenvestigasyon antreprann par Board, Minis osi i ava annan pouvwar pou li.

E se sa, koumsa ki mon pe enterpret li Minis.

Ou ava klarifye si mon mal.


So, Mr Speaker, an zeneral sa Lalwa i napa en gran problenm, me selman mon santi ki poudir i annan tro bokou kontrol ki pe al viz ver bann lantrepriz piblik, ki mon krwar nou bezwen asize get byen.

22 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 E mon krwar nou pa kapab kategoriz tou bann lantrepriz piblik parey.

Nou bezwen asize gete ki mannyer nou aplik Lalwa, or si nou bezwen re kategoriz bann lantrepriz piblik dan le fitir.

Avek sa Mr Speaker, mon a remersye ou.


MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

MR SPEAKER Laparol i prezan pou Onorab Gill.

HON CHURCHILL GILL Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Minis ek ou delegasyon.

Bonzour tou Manm ek tou dimoun a lekout.

I annan detrwa keksoz ki'n ganny mansyonnen.

Mwan, mon pou al tous detrwa pwen ki ti a voudre ganny klarifye, Minis, ler ou donn ou Right of Reply.

Mon premye pwen se dan Lalwa i dir ki Pension Fund avek labank pou sorti anba PEMC pou al anba FSA.
Dan Lalwa osi i dir ki FSA pou lemoman i bezwen al build son kapasite, apre i bezwen al travay en lo regulatory framework.

So, petet vi ki sa bouze la pe ganny fer imedyat ler Lalwa i pase, ek regulatory framework ki SFA pe ki’n mansyonnen ki nou ti ganny capacity dapre fer, sa al eksplike dan Bills Committee.

Si nou kapab ganny en nide be, kantite letan pou pran sa pou zot fini build sa regulatory framework kot FSA, pou zot kapab zer sa bann nouvo adisyon ki pe vin kot zot?
An menm tan, i annan bann lantrepriz ki zot, zot pa profitab.

Me selman apart ki SPTC, bann ki pirman pou servis, i annan bann ki operate as a business me selman zot pa profitab.

Nou ti a kontan konnen, sa bann ki pou arive ek zot prezan, anba sa nouvo regilasyon ki pe fer, si i annan serten course of action ki pou ganny pran dan sa direksyon?

An menm tan, sa asset Minis in dir nou i R35bilyon, si mon'n tann ou byen.

Avek en profi dividend ki ou dir Gouvernman gannyen, anviron 640milyon.
Mon santi ki given sa groser asset, sa dividend i klerman edike ki i ki annan definitivman pa pe perform alaoter.

lantrepriz i en dividend E se sa ki mon premye kestyon ki pou arive, akoz en gran dekalaz i annan ek en asset 35bilyon pou ou kapab anmas zis 640milyon.

I ase sibstansyel.

Me selman sa groser asset, definitivman nou ti devret pe kapab anmas pli byen si tou sa pe bann fonksyonn parey zot devret fonksyonnen.
lantrepriz ti 23 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 E sa parmi bann lantrepriz, ti annan en bann ki Oditer Zeneral - pa li ki ti odit zot akoz son manda pa ti allow li pou li odit zot, eski prezan oditer pou kapab, son manda pou ganny extend ki i kapab odit tou sa bann lantrepriz?

E mon lot pwen se konsernan clause 32 (3).

Anba sa Clause i dir Komisyon konsiltasyon avek Minis pou determinen saler anliny avek public salary framework.
E mon klarifikasyon se ozordi nou deza annan dimoun dan lanplwa bann lantrepriz, e ki zot saler i pa anliny avek public salary framework as such.

Ki pou arive prezan ler sa Lalwa i vin anfors?

Eski sa bann dimoun pou vwar zot saler ganny redwi pou vin inline ek public salary framework or otherwise?

dan sa E dernyen mon klarifikasyon ki mon ti a kontan gannyen, akoz ki Minis ki bezwen desid kantite dividend?

Vi ki sa bann lantrepriz zot tou zot annan zot Board e zot CEO.
Zot ki au fait avek zot loperasyon, avek zot bann diferan depans, ek zot bann abilities.

Mon santi ki Board ek son CEO, ti pou dan en pli bon pozisyon pou zot kapab desid dividend, vi ki zot konnen son lannen fiskal ki pou swiv, ki bann komikman zot annan, e ki bann kalite depans e lezot keksoz ki zot annan?

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Mersi Onorab.

Mon apel Onorab Herminie pou pran laparol.

HON WILBERT HERMINIE Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Mr Speaker.
Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Minis ek ou delegasyon, tou koleg e ler Onorab.

Mr Speaker, mon'n pas dan sa Prozedlwa, mon war i en bon Prozedlwa ki'n ganny travay lo la par bann teknisyen, me solman mon ti annan serten konsern e rezervasyon ki mon ti anvi met devan Minis, epi Minis i kapab klersi pou nou.

Ou konnen, mon konnen ki Onorab Georges pa kontan ler nou koz lo mefyans, me solman nou bezwen dir ankor nou annan sa mefyans, akoz serten keksoz ki nou'n war, ki mon mon'n war dan sa Prozedlwa.
Ou konnen mon kontan lo latransparans, me solman zot pa pratik lo accountability me zot pa pratik li.

li.

Zot koz zot koz ler Mon dezapwente ler zot koz lo bonn gouvernans me zot pa pratik li.

Akoz mon’n dir sa, Mr Speaker?

Ler mon pe get clause 100 dan sa Lalwa, i montre ki degre kontrol zot le anmennen.

Sa clause i dir ki Minis pou overrule desizyon 24 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 si bann Board dan national interest, pe oubyen kontradwir Polisi.
La lanmenm la, i annan en ta landrwa pou en ta keksoz pase.

Sanmenm sa nou dir nou napa konfyans laliny i annan bann ler koumsa dan bann Bill.

Minis i kapab bezwen eksplik nou kwa ki i pe mean ler i pe met national interest, akoz pou mwan sa i pa kler ditou.

Akoz bokou desizyon i ganny pran dan kasyet, ki nou, nou pa ni menm konnen.

Polisi i sanze de zour de landmen.

Par egzanp, zis get sa Polisi lo…Environmental levy lo lasanm.

De zour a landmen i sanze.


Sa pou mwan i montre ki i annan serten keksoz ki'n ganny kasyet dan sa Bill.

Kantmenm bann teknisyen in fer en bon travay, be selman i annan serten keksoz ki nou war ki pa kler.

Par egzanp; in touse, Onorab Cosgrow lenvestigasyon pe ganny fer.

Pou en rezon lenvestigasyon i bezwen ganny terminate?

ki ki ki I enportan pou nou konnen, akoz mon ti a vwar li dan pli bon fason fer, dan bon gouvernans en i a ganny lenvestigasyon concluded e en rapor i ava sorti.
Be it positive or negative.

Be ki rezon ki Minis i annan sa pouvwar pou en lenvestigasyon ki in ganny termin initiate?

I montre ou ki i annan serten keksoz ki kapab pe ganny arive deryer rido ki nou pa konnen.

So, sa i fer nou, lo kote US vreman mefyan.

E parey mon'n dir, Minis nou pe koz ek ou byen kalmeman.

Pe demann serten ou lesplikasyon, akoz ou ki'n prezant sa Bill.

Nou bezwen met konsern piblik devan ou.


Mon konnen Onorab Georges, atraver ou, Mr Speaker, pa kontan ler nou reprezant Lepep Seselwa e demann kestyon Lepep Seselwa.

lapar lo Me nou lo kote US, nou pou kontinyen demande nou.

Bann lenformasyon ki Lepep pe demann nou pou demande, nou met li devan Minis.

Minis, ou annan ou bann teknisyen ki'n ed ou, ki'n brief ou lo sa Bill, ou ava eksplike.

Mon pa oule lo kote latab zot pou vin nerv ek nou akoz nou pe demann kestyon lapar Lepep Seselwa.

Mersi Mr Speaker.
Mersi Mr Speaker.

lo MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Mon a pas laparol Onorab Flory Larue.

HON FLORY LARUE Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Minis avek ou delegasyon.

Mr Speaker, devan nou, nou annan en Bill ki pe get bann assets ki Leta i annan.

Zot 25 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 bann SOEs, zot bann State- Owned Enterprise.

E Mr Speaker, mon ti a kontan lir dan Bill, dan Schedule, sa lalis ki sa Lalwa pou aplik…Sa bann lakonpannyen ki sa Lalwa pou aplik pou zot.
Mr Speaker, nou annan Seychelles Public Transport Corporation, SPTC.

Nou annan Property Management Corporation, PMC.

Nou annan Limited, Air Seychelles Aviation Authority, SCAA.

Nou annan Seychelles Ports Authority.


Seychelles Civil Green annan Seychelles Nou Island Company Development Island Limited, Construction Company Limited, Green Tree Investment Company Limited, Seychelles Petroleum Company Limited, Seychelles Progress, Seychelles Patriot, Seychelles Pioneer, Seychelles Prelude, Petro Limited, L’Union Estate Company, PUC.
Seychelles Parks and Gardens Authority, Seychelles Limited, Services Postal Seychelles Trading Company Limited, Société Seychelloise d’Investissement Limited, Bois De Rose Investment Limited, Paradis Des Enfants Limited, Fund, Seychelles Financial Services Authority, 2020 Development Company Limited, National Information Services Agency, ek Seychelles Fishing Authority.

Pension Mr Speaker, dan sa lalis i annan lakonpannyen ki ankor pe wrap up, ki zot pa pe fer okenn biznes e zot pe fermen.
I annan lakonpannyen ki pou move apre.

Me selman pou le moman, sa i lalis ki nou annan.

lalis lakonpannyen, Mr Speaker, nou vwar ki bokou i donn nou bann servis ki Seselwa i ajour avek.

Tel ki; Seychelles Public Transport Corporation, SPTC, i dan lavi bokou Seselwa toulezour e i transport nou lafors travayer.

Dan sa Air Seychelles tou dimoun i konnen Gouvernman i son propriyeter.

E nou tann bann lezot lotorite ki donn nou bann Lalwa pou gid nou pei pou nou kapab bouze, tel ki; SCAA e SFA.
Alor i en melanz kalite lakonpannyen.

Me parkont, nou'n ganny dir ki zot in anrezistre anba Companies Act, e zot bann lakonpannyen prive, apart ki lefe ek son shareholder i mazoriter, prensipalman dan sa bann, se Gouvernman Sesel.

Sa Mr Speaker, nou Prezidan in deza dir nou ki nou bezwen regard mannyer nou pei i marse koman en biznes.

kote gouvernans.

I dir sa akoz en biznes i sipoze zer son assets ki li kapab anmenn en benefis pli efikas posib, pou bann dimoun ki deservi sa keksoz.
Lo kote nou i annan pou lo i 26 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 se Lepep Gouvernman, Seselwa ki benefisye letan en Gouvernman i ganny byen zere par bann dimoun ki travay dan civil service.

sa Dan bann kad lakonpannyen ki bokou zot in ganny formen bokou lannen pase, Mr Speaker, dan en sistenm ki konpletman diferan avek sa enn ki nou ladan ozordi.

En kad politik diferan, sosyalis kominis ki ti fer ki nou annan fason panse.

Nou vwar nou ozordi avek sa bann lakonpannyen.


Me i annan osi bann nouvo ki pe ganny formen.

serten Avek lefe ki lemonn in bouze, lafason ki sa bann lakonpannyen i ganny zere, i pa toultan son fason pli efikas posib.

E la nou vwar Lalwa pe vin an plas, pou donn nou en gidans pou nou bouz devan, pou sorti dan sa dernyen Lalwa 2013, pou bouz devan avek en Lalwa pli solid ki serten Manm lo lot kote latab in menm dir nou ki i en bon Lalwa.
ki Mr Speaker, letan nou vwar ki nou annan sa lalis son lakonpannyen shareholder mazoriter i Gouvernman Sesel, tou sa ki sa bann lakonpannyen i fer, sirtou en lakonpannyen ki'n enkorpore, i pou anmenn en profi maksimal pou pei.

Son profi i enn ki Minis finansyer koman Finans i gard bokou lizye lo la.

Me i annan serten ki ankor parey en servis ki nou anmennen.
La nou pou bezwen refer avek SPTC, kot i ganny par sibvansyonnen Gouvernman pou nou kapab gard en pri bis pli ba pou nou i en popilasyon, akoz sa bezwen nasyonal.

Nou vwar tann STC, Seychelles Trading Company, ki en lakonpannyen ki ozordi nou Gouvernman mansyonn li souvan pou li kapab ede fer desann pri lavi.

Mr Speaker, letan nou ganny dir lo lot kote latab ki nou pe anmenn plis kontrol, ki nou pe anmenn en lanmen forse anndan dan sa bann lakonpannyen, Mr Speaker.
bann Akoz koman zot lakonpannyen korpere sipoze annan kekfwa plis leeway.

bann Mr Speaker, nou demann nou lekor akoz ki nou Gouvernman ozordi i vwar ki lantrepriz sa Gouvernman, bann SOEs i bezwen annan en lanmen forse, parey sa mo in ganny servi lot kote latab, ouswa en oversight pli for.

STC nou konnen en letan, Mr Speaker, ti pe pey rent ziska R850mil avek en parti politik Mr Speaker.
Son Board Direkter ti war sa lease en normal, ki zot 27 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 en parti propriyete avek politik, e zot li pou R850mil par mwan, Mr Speaker.
lwe Sa desizyon bann koumsa, si ozordi Minis in deside ki in propoze avek Attorney General e i pe met devan nou ki kekfwa i annan desizyon ki bezwen ranverse Mr Speaker, eski si sa Lalwa ti anfors, sa ti pou en bann desizyon ki Minis ti pou kapab step up pou li bouz devan pou li dir, be non, sa pa dan lentere lentere i pa dan pei, e nasyonal, be dan lentere en parti politik, Mr Speaker?

Mr Speaker, sa i enn bann legzanp.


I annan plizyer legzanp kot serten labi dan bann SOEs in ganny, nou'n ganny… Bann lenterpretasyon lot kote kot i dir nou'n ganny… Nou'n mazinen ki kekfwa ti annan bann frod.

Nou'n fer bann lakizasyon dan lepase.

Kekfwa sa bann lakonpannyen ti opak, e nou pa vwar ki pe pase ladan.

Alor nou ti met bann lakizasyon ouswa bann statement pou dir ki nou krwar ti pe pase ladan Mr Speaker.
Minis son lentervansyon in dir nou ki sa Lalwa pe vin devan pou Gouvernman adres sa bann fason panse ki pep kalite lo bann i annan Seselwa antite, ki letan ou regarde i pou prensipalman dan Gouvernman, ki fer ki i pou Lepep Seselwa.

Sa, Mr Speaker, i montre ki nou en annan politisyen, akoz i en politically appointed post.

Li ki mover sa Bill, Mr Speaker.

en Minis ki Mr Speaker, i bezwen annan li en vizyon.

I pa kapab Minis, napa en vizyon.

Nou dir nou Minis i frazil.


Mr Speaker, sa Minis ki la pa frazil ditou li, ok?

Nou Minis i konn konte premyerman.

Nou Minis i vini i fer bann desizyon for e brav.

Mr Speaker, sa bann ki ti Minis avan ki ti frazil, i krwar ki kekfwa pou dir nou fer nou krwar ki ozordi nou Minis osi i frazil.

Me non, Mr Speaker, kantite nou konfyans dan nou Minis.
annan en (APPLAUSE) HON FLORY LARUE E sa enn ki la i dir nou ki li i atraver sa Bill, i an faver bann aksyon pou increase sufficiency, e pou rann kont, e pou bonn anmenn gouvernans.

Mr Speaker, se pa sa ki nou pep ti vote?

Se pa sa ki pep Seselwa ti demande?

Nou'n ganny dir ki annan serten CEO ki'n la en kantite letan, e ozordi nou pe praise zot.

Mr Speaker, mon bezwen adrese sa pwen akoz mwan, mon enn ki'n koz for anver sa 28 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 dimoun lakonpannyen.
Me pa non zis son CEO, Mr Speaker.

Pa koman kapasite son personnel.

Mon napa issue ek en personnel.

Premyerman sa msye mon pa konn li mon Mr Speaker.

Mon konn son frer akoz mon ti travay ek li, Mr Speaker.

Me mon pa konn sa msye personnelman.

Me parkont, letan ou dan en pozisyon kot ou pe zer 14 zil ki pou pep Seselwa, ki pou Larepiblik.

Wi, Mr Speaker, koman en sitwayen, koman en Manm dan en parti politik, mon ti demande ki i annan pou mon latransparans konnen ki i pe fer lo sa bann zil.
Ki i pe fer ek nou larzan?

Kote nou larzan i ete?

Ki mannyer fer son bann desizyon?

i Nou pa kapab les en lanpir, en dimoun larg pou li fer sa ki i le.

Si ozordi nou sanz Lalwa e i konformen, e i travay e i donn nou, nou bann larepons ki nou bezwen, i ava reste.

Oli problenm, Mr Speaker?

Me si i pa kapab, i a step out, i a sorti.

Me selman, wi, nou pou fer sa louvraz pou nou anmenn latransparans dan sa lakonpannyen, ki en bann letan personn pa ti konnen ki pe pase.

Ni Prezidan, personn.


Zis son CEO ki ti pran son desizyon li menm, parey letan zot ti pey R850 rent tou le mwan avek en parti politik, en ptipti building, Mr Speaker.

Sa bann desizyon ti ganny pran dan bann SOEs.

Mr Speaker, letan nou pe regard sa bann SOEs, annou regard enn spesifik ki ziskan ozordi mon pa ankor kapab konpran ki son bi li, Mr Speaker.

Ankor sa lot nou konnen i annan detrwa lotel, avyon i monte desann.

Enn de Seselwa i al visit sa bann zil atraver enn de pti guesthouse.
Sa enn ki la, Mr Speaker, mon ti a kontan anmenn latansyon pep Seselwa.

2020 Development Company Limited, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, ki si sa, sa?

Ozordi nou ganny dir, parey mon dir ankor, nou pe anmenn en lanmen forse.

Eski nou'n demann sa bann Board ki zot panse lo sa Lalwa?

Nou dir ki serten lakonpannyen pou kapab zwenn sa ki sa Lalwa pe demande.

Serten pa pou zwenn.

annan i Mr Speaker, ou konnen akoz serten i zwenn?

Serten i fer larzan pou pei.

Serten ti fer larzan pou bann ki deryer, Mr Speaker.
Letan nou vwar bann ki ti pli feb, ki li i ti ganny manipile pou anrisir serten.

La, nou annan problenm.

E la Minis pa kapab prezan dir pou annan 2 kalite SOEs.

Enn ki anfors Lalwa en pe, en lot nou 29 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Speaker, fer en lot pti Lalwa pou li pa anfors bokou.

Mr tou lakonpannyen ki Gouvernman i own, dapre nou Minis e sa vizyon ki i annan, akoz i pa frazil… se pou anmenn en profi, en benefis, pou ki Mr Speaker?

Pa pou li akoz li i annan son saler li.


Kantmenm i underpaid koman en Minis dan Gouvernman Seselwa, i li, Mr annan son valer Speaker, ki li i anmennen pou pep Seselwa.

Se sa ki Minis pe mete atraver sa Lalwa.

Pep Seselwa i ganny en benefis dapre son asset, Mr Speaker.

Nou annan en Manm lo lot kote latab ki'n dir nou letan nou annan asset lavaler 35 ekek bilyon, e dividends i ptigin.

I byen i demann sa kestyon.

Ozordi nou'n ganny dir lot kote latab, Mr Speaker, zot lib.
Zot lib pou eksprim zot lekor, ok, Mr Speaker.

Zot lib pou zot dir sa ki zot le, akoz Mr Speaker, nou'n donn zot sa laliberte.

E letan en Manm i vini i dir, assets ki sa bann SOEs i annan dan bilyon, dividends li i dan milyon, bezwen demande be akoz?

Minis pe met en lord Mr Speaker.

Pep Seselwa in demande, Manm US lot kote latab osi i met lanfaz lo la.

Mr Speaker, sa bann keksoz ki nou, nou pe demande dan nou pei.

i E kot retourn sa lakonpannyen Mr Speaker.


Sa lakonpannyen en lakonpannyen ki li son manda i dir ki i sipoze i enkorpore depi 2012.

Son manda i fer devlopman lenfrastriktir, Mr Speaker.

Ti annan li 3 zil.

Iles sit Soleil.

spesifikman.

Iles Soleil, Iles Aurore, ek Victoria Waterfront.

Oli?

annan 3 I pase lannen Oli depi 2012, Mr Speaker.

Kontrer S.I in bezwen sorti kot Gouvernman in bezwen donn zot en bann milyon.

En nouvo Board i bezwen kapab ganny apwente pou kapab met en lord.
Sa dernyen Board ti annan 3 dimoun ladan depi 2012.

Mr Barry Faure, Mrs Sabrina Agathine, Mr Yves Choppy.

anba La Mr Speaker, an Out 2021, nouvo Board in ganny apwente sa Gouvernman.

E la zot annan zot, zot group dimoun.

Zot annan zot, zot group dimoun.

Zot annan zot Chairperson avek 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 manm ankor.

I fer 6 dimoun, Mr Speaker, olye sa, pou kapab fer en travay ou nou pei.
E la Gouvernman in donn zot premye debousman atraver en S.I pou zot kapab konmans bouz devan, fer en plan, avek sipoze sit ki Seselwa benefisye, Mr Speaker.

i 30 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Se sa ki sa Lalwa pe anmennen.

Progre, pou nou kapab bouz devan.

Pa zis koze, koze.

Iles Soleil, Iles Soleil, Iles Aurore, Iles Soleil, Iles Aurore.

Naryen pa arive Mr Speaker.

fer.

Sa ki sa Lalwa pou Mouvman.

devan, Seselwa a benefisye Mr Speaker.


Bouz Mr Speaker, letan nou pe regard sa Lalwa e nou pe dir ki, mannyer nou pe fer, letan nou pe al met sa bann lord e nou pe ranforsi sa bann keksoz ki nou pe anmennen, tel ki, Mr Speaker, annual general meeting.

I ladan dan sa Lalwa.

Ozordi dan sa Lalwa ki nou pe met devan, sa lantrepriz bezwen…Dan i seksyon 88, i bezwen hold en Shareholders Meeting tou le lannen, tou le financial year.
Zot pou fer zot en meeting, e zot pou fer the annual general meeting shall be held in public, Mr Speaker.

Savedir pep Seselwa i a kapab ale dan son bann meeting pou al gete ki pe arive lo son bann zil.

Sa ki enterese letan IDC i fer son meeting, i ava al gete, i ava al demande.

I ava annan en query koumsa ki nou anmenn Seselwa abor Mr Speaker.

I dir nou dan sa Bill ki nou pou protez sa bann assets.

Dan seksyon 89.

Sa Board ki ganny apwente Mr Speaker, ki i bezwen fer?
I bezwen protez the assets of the public against theft, misuse, loss, or any other risk, Mr Speaker, se sa ki Lalwa pe anmenn lanmen forse?

Alor, annou get byen ki nou dir.

Nou konnen kot nou sorti.

I dir aret koz 43an.

Wi!

Mon oule pa le koz lo 2020 Development.

Mon anvi pa koz lo zot dir mwan sa CEO sepa konbyen lannen i la, mwan li mon personnelman.

mwan, mon pe di depi 82 ou la, la nou’n ariv 2023.

Kote nou pe ale avek en lakonpannyen?

bann kestyon ki mon demande.


kontan Sa pa nou Letan demann tousala Mr Speaker, nou bezwen retourn kot nou sorti, pou nou konnen kot nou pe ale.

E nou Minis, e nou Gouvernman ozordi avek son i pe montre pep vizyon, Seselwa ki i anvi enkli li dan son bann SOEs, pou li osi li donn mont devan pou lanmen pou dir, montre son lopinyon ki i annan.

Pou nou kapab fer en pei ki pli for, pou ki Mr Speaker?

Pou pep Seselwa.

Akoz tou sa bann la, pou pep lakonpannyen Seselwa.

Mersi Mr Speaker.
Mersi Mr Speaker.

(APPLAUSE) MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Bon, mon krwar mon a apel pou en poz 31 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 la.

Nou a kapab repran travay 11er10.

Mersi.

(BREAK) MR SPEAKER Laparol i pou Onorab Sathya Naidu.

ek HON SATHYA NAIDU Bonzour Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Minis Hassan son delegasyon.

Bonzour tou koleg Onorab, e byensir en bonzour spesyal pou zabitan St Louis ki a lekout e ki pe swiv sa sesyon.
Enn bann pwen ki bann Manm Onorab lot kote latab in fer referans avek lo en baz kontinyel se, lefe ki nou'n bezwen waive off sa 7 zour.

Me selman koman en Manm Bills Committee, mon'n asiz avek mon bann koleg lo lot kote latab pou pros 3 sesyon nou kapab dir.

zot E nou'n travay longman, e vre fer bann in kontribisyon tre valab ki'n kapab ed sa Bill vin devan Lasanble dan sa laform ki ladan.

E se sa rol koman en Manm Komite, e nou tou nou ganny en allowance pou fer sa travay.
E an relasyon avek sa konsern menm, enn bann rezon nou'n bezwen withdraw lo nou kote, se akoz Komite in sanze ki i annan en kantite volim lamannman.

E lamannman ti pou'n fer ki ler ti pou’n ariv dan Staz Komite, nou ti pou'n pas 2 zour.

E se lo sa baz ki nou'n dir withdraw, e reprodwi.

E i annan ankor lamannman ki pe al ganny prezante pli tar.

Me, i reste lesansyel nou'n ganny en nide kler lo ki sa Bill i anvizaze fer.
E mon krwar pa Onorab ti pou kapab koz pou pros 25minit lo sa Bill si pa ti konn naryen.

Be i kler ki i ti'n konn son Bill, e in met devan serten konsern.

Alors an relasyon avek sa, mon krwar mon'n fer keksoz en pe pli kler.

An relasyon avek Bill ki devan nou, byensir i pe tir PEMC, i pe ranplas li avek sa Public Enterprise Commission, e Lalwa setfwasi nou pou, atraver bann lamannman pou byensir fer sir ki i morde.
I annan en bon pe Lalwa dan nou pei ozordi ki ou pa pou kapab neseserman met li ann aplikasyon pou kapab fer sir ou prodwi bann rezilta.

Ou prodwi bann outcomes pou fer sir ki sa antite pe deservi son responsabilite 100poursan.

E avek letan, Lalwa i sanze pou akomod bann nouvo bezwen.
E, dan sa 27 lantrepriz, i annan serten ki'n ganny prominans kot par legzanp; Air Seychelles dan Lasanble ti'n ganny diskite a 2 repriz, 2 diferan sesyon, pou nou kapab konpran sityasyon finansyel 32 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 nou aryen nasyonal, and what was going to be the worst possible outcome.

Akoz zis akoz, i pa'n ganny byen zere koman en lakonpannyen, ki pou Leta.
E atraver finalman, travay ki'n ganny fer avek Minis Hassan son ek lezot delegasyon, e bann Manm ki'n enplike dan sa travay.

Nou'n nobou kapab fer sir ki nou aryen nasyonal i ankor pe anvole, i pe al kot bann destinasyon.

E mon ti a voudre si Minis pou dan en pozisyon pou dir nou konbyen, si an ka i annan okenn peyman an term dividend ki pe al ganny fer par Air Seychelles sa lannen?

E zisteman an relasyon avek dividends.


Mon panse pou annan serten bann SOEs ki pa pou kapab prodwi en dividend, par egzanp; SPTC.

ler Akoz pe Gouvernman sibvansyonn loperasyon SPTC, i pa neseserman ki i pou kapab prodwi en dividend.

logic dictates ki ankor PMC, Property Management Corporation.

‘Company’ rather.

An relasyon avek sa, ozordi nou'n met apepre R50milyon pou adres bann problem maintenance an zeneral dan pei.
Be si PEMC dan lepase, nou ti'n kapab problem adres maintenance, par egzanp; pou bann dimoun Ex-Geers, zot pa bann ti pou trouv zot dan sa sityasyon ki zot ladan ozordi.

Me selman mon apresye nou pe fer le lesansyel pou nou kapab adres sa defi.

Me ankor en fwa.

Ki mannyer eski zot pou kapab raport en dividend?

E i annan en bon pe lezot SOEs ki setfwasi in nobou kapab donn nou en dividend, an konparezon avek 3an, 4an.
Ankor en fwa i ti a bon si Minis i ti pou kapab soumet avek nou pou dir bann SOEs ki pa'n raport en dividend pou 5an, 4an, me ozordi zot pe donn en dividend.

An relasyon avek sa, zisteman, eski zot pou kapab donn nou.

Pa neseserman ozordi - me pli tar - en forecast lo lekel bann SOEs ki pe al prodwi en dividend?

E lekel bann SOEs ki pa pe al prodwi?

E an menm tan mon'n regard website PEMC.

I paret pa tou SOEs pe met devan en annual report.

Kekfwa sa en keksoz avek Public Enterprise Commission.
Nou pou bezwen fer sir ki tou bann SOEs zot annual report i online pou piblik an zeneral lir.

E nou osi koman lezislater perform nou fonksyon, pou nou kapab asire ki tou sa bann SOEs zot pe delire ver zot fonksyon.

E atraver sa Bill, si i annan en keksoz kler se nou tou sa bann pe zot lantrepriz fer sir pran pe 33 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Tou bann responsabilite.
endividi ki pe travay dan bann diferan fonksyon pe pran zot responsabilite, akoz finalman i pou Leta, e sa ki pou Leta i osi pou pep Seselwa.

E nou ganny dir, pa koze lo sa ki'n arive 43an pase.

Be nou bezwen koze pou nou kapab aprann bann leson pou pa repet bann fot.

So, si an ka dan le fitir i pou annan en Cabinet of Ministers, ouswa en Minis ki dir, mon pou forgo.

Silvouple forgo.

Akoz konmela sa pep pou koze.

Sa pep pou demande ki pe arive?

Serten i dir kwa?

What’s the walk of shame?


Everyday that person is walking the walk of shame.

Mon pa pou al lo detay.

Pep Seselwa i ase entelizan pou konpran sa.

Me, zisteman an relasyon avek sa, i enportan ki bann SOEs i zwenn lekspektasyon ki nou pep i annan.

E ler nou regard STC, enn bann rol se pou li kapab anchor the prices.

E nou pe fer sa.

Nou'n sey met RRP, pa'n neseserman marse.

Lopozisyon in gognard nou.


Ozordi nou annan MRP, pou nou kapab fer sir ki at least sa 14 komodite dan tou bann laboutik, i vann menm pri.

E i pe ganny fer.

E kot pa pe ganny fer, i enportan pep i vin devan pou nou kapab dir pou fer sir ki bann marsan i reazir ver sa.

E ler nou regard GICC.

Ozordi Libreri Nasyonal pe fer konstriksyon nou libreri.

E tre byento nou pe al ouver pou bann zenn ki'n atann pou sepa konbyen lannen.
Finalman antre dan en landrwa kot zot pou kapab etidye, e fer bann resers, e bokou plis ankor pou zot epanouisman.

E atraver GICC, wi, depi Gouvernman presedan nou in annan sa kapab dir progranm lo kote condos.

Nou ankor pe kontinyen.

E nou ankor pe kontinyen malgre lensertitid lekonomi ki nou koman en Gouvernman nou'n erite.

E nou pe fer progre pou kapab bes kou konstriksyon.
E an relasyon avek sa, nou menm tann Onorab Lemiel koman Chairperson COGA, dan Nouvel, pou dir ki zot satisfe, pou dir ki nou pe fer en bon travay lo bann lasirans ki'n ganny fer.

Lasirans tel ki ozordi nou war Proze Kanmaron in byen demare.

STC, manman, dimoun pe atann.

I annan en bon pe ki pe dir mon pe atann pou sa lot batch.

Sa ti en proze ki ti la dan lepase, me nou tou nou konnen kwa ki ti'n arive sa letan.

E fodre ki i pa repete.

Be ankor enn fwa i en sikse nou Gouvernman.


E sa Onorab…I byensir pe fer en travay pou Lasanble, i pa la ozordi, me se li ki ti'n zour dir.

Prezan, menm 34 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 menm, ou tann en lot Onorab dan Lasanble dir le kontrer.

Parfwa, ou a dir zot deregle, Mr Speaker.

lantrepriz piblik.

Nou bezwen byen monitor zot performans e kit en lizye lo nou larzan ki sa bann lantrepriz i fer.
(laughter) HON SATHYA NAIDU Mr Speaker, ozordi nou'n en Gouvernman ki serye, en Gouvernman ki responsab, en Gouvernman ki pa le repet fot 43an, en Gouvernman ki le anmenn nou pep anver prosperite, e sa lamannman, sa Bill ki devan nou i pe fer le lesansyel pou kapab fer sir, ki nou annan bann SOEs ki pe delivre lo zot bann target.

E mon swet Komisyon bonn sans dan sa travay ki devan zot.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

(APPLAUSE) MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Mon a donn laparol Onorab Uranie.


HON ROCKY URANIE Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Minis avek ou delegasyon, tou koleg Onorab e byensir en bonzour spesyal tou zabitan Zil Pros ki a lekout.

Mr Speaker i enportan pou nenport ki Gouvernman lo son bann annan lizye assets, dan lespri bonn gouvernans ki Gouvernman ti’n deza etablir, nou bezwen konpran loperasyon sa bann sa bann Sa bann lantrepriz in kontribye bokou dan nou lekonomi pei, e alors nou bezwen apresye travay ki’n ganny fer par sa bann dimoun lantrepriz.
dan Byensir nou bezwen konpran rol Gouvernman koman bann dan shareholder lantrepriz piblik, me nou bezwen ki Gouvernman pa tro enterfer avek bann Board ki kapab fer keksoz tourn en lot fason.

byen veye Tou lantrepriz piblik i bezwen ganny byen raporte lo la e byensir i bezwen rann kont e osi si keksoz pa pe marse nou bezwen gete, si fodre annan bann sanksyon nou bezwen met an plas.

Koman en pti pei nou bezwen servi byen nou bann resours ki nou annan e fer zot reste soutenab.
Mr Speaker nou’n war plizyer lager dan lepase kont IDC, kont Green Island en bann demagozi in ganny fer.

En bann lakizasyon in ganny fer kont IDC e sa lager in anmennen in convince plizyer dimoun sirtou bann siporter LDS ki ti annan bokou keksoz ki ti pe mal pase kot IDC.
E la ozordi nou war ki bann siporter i ankor reste konfize e pe esper serten 35 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 dimoun ganny pouse, atraver ou Mr Speaker Onorab Larue i enn ki’n anmenn sa lager non- stop kont IDC e Green Island.

Ozordi ki nou war sanmenm sa ki nou apel parey nou dir ler ou kras anler i tonm lo ou figir, ozordi i sanz zistwar.
Mr Speaker nou osi tann li menm Onorab ankor dir plizyer fwa Minis in vin la in dir en teknokrat, me ennler i en politisyen, ennler i resanz ankor en kou i vin teknokrat e la ankor nou tann Onorab Larue i dir i tourn en politisyen e zot bezwen konnen ki zot anvi vini ler zot vin la dan sa Lasanble.

Mr Speaker 2an edmi zot la, zot pe manage Linyon Estate zot in sanz tou keksoz akoz dapre zot Linyon Estate pa ti pe ganny zere byen.
Me 2an edmi zot la e Digwa i ankor pe espere ki pou arive, oli sa progre ki Linyon Estate i sipoze fer tou keksoz i ankor dan sonm.

Zot in swazir zot en Board zanmi, en Board zanmi zot in met Linyon Estate me ziske la naryen pa pe ganny fer e pa pe bouze.

E alor Mr Speaker nou pa konnen ki pou arive avek Linyon Estate akoz keksoz pa tro kler Mr Speaker.
So, Mr Speaker sa Lalwa li menm parey nou dir ti deza la plizyer keksoz i la, pe zis pe ganny pti lamannman ki pe vini e parey bouze, bann plizyer bann Onorab in dir ladan kekfwa i annan enn de pti zafer, ki nou bezwen ki fer nou reste en pti pe mefyan par ler lo serten keksoz.

E alors Mr Speaker mon ti a kontan petet Minis ti a klersi sa bann pwen ki bann Onorab in dir pou nou ganny en pe plis lesplikasyon lo la.

Mersi Mr Speaker.
Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab, wi Onorab Larue mon konnen sa Manm in fer referans avek ou.

HON FLORY LARUE Point of order.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Onorab, silvouple.

HON FLORY LARUE Under Order 59(7)(d) ankor mwan mon state mon point of order… (Interruption) MR SPEAKER Eskiz mwan bann Manm Onorab ki’n kri ki Order?

mon a demande ki order e mon a les sa Manm fer son point of order i annan si mon krwar zistifikasyon pou donn li laparol.
Letan zot, zot lev point of order mon pa neseserman demande ki point of order.

36 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Onorab, silvouple bref ki oule adrese?

in HON FLORY LARUE Mr Speaker anba 59(7)(d), mon pe dir ki Onorab ki’n koz la avan mwan impute improper motive in mansyonn mon non pou dir mon konfize ki mon pe dir.

Mon pa fer okenn vin konfizyon, e letan i pe fer sa dan lafason ki in fer i pe konfiz Seselwa.
letan Zis akoz mon annan mwan en lopinyon politik Mr Speaker, i pa fer ki mon pa rekonnet en pozisyon ofisyel ki i en zofisye Gouvernman annan.

I pa mean ki mon pa dakor avek bann keksoz ki’n arive, alor pa ensilte sa dimoun ki la depi 1982 pandan zot letan, zis akoz mwan mon’n annan en issue lo ki mannyer sa lakonpannyen in marse.

Mersi.

lakonpannyen sa (APPLAUSE) MR SPEAKER Bon.

Onorab, (Off-Mic) MR SPEAKER Non.

Onorab bes ou lanmen silvouple, non nou pa pou kapab fer sa en deba ki ale kontinyelman.
Onorab Larue mon a dir mon’n ekout ou lo ki ti ou klarifikasyon lentansyon, me selman dan kote Onorab Uranie, mon pa krwar si sa pwen in impute improper motive i vreman en lakizasyon tro grav ki in fer, ki pou demann mwan pou aret deba pou kontinyen.

So, nou pou termin la mon a kontinyen avek Onorab Loizeau.

Onorab Loizeau ou annan laparol.

HON NORBERT LOIZEAU Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonzour Minis ek ou delegasyon.

Bonzour tou Manm e tou Seselwa a lekout.


Mr Speaker pou komanse mon anvi dir ek Onorab Larue mersi pou donn en apersi bann dimoun deor ki pe ekoute lekel sa bann public enterprise ki’n ganny liste, akoz bokou dimoun ki pe ekoute sirtou i annan bokou bann dimoun aze zot pa azour ek sa bann keksoz, e zot dir mwan dir Onorab Larue mersi pou fer zot konn sa.

Mr Speaker, sa Bill ki devan nou i en Bill ki mwan mon panse ti merit vin bokou letan avan.
I merit vin pli bokou letan avan, plis lannen avan Mr Speaker akoz mwan mannyer mon get sa Bill, sa Bill in vin met lord dan en dezord ki ti annan dan bann Lantrepriz Piblik.

Sa i mon lopinyon Mr Speaker.

Akoz mon pe dir sa?

Pandan bann 37 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 fwa ti letan avan souvan annan lenterferans politik ki ti antre dan sa bann lantrepriz piblik e sa Mr Speaker se sa ki ti gat tou keksoz.
E ou pou kapab dakor avek mwan e Minis pou dakor ek mwan, souvandfwa bann dimoun ki lo latet sa bann lorganizasyon, ou ti bezwen dimoun ki ti byen konnekte.

Akoz ki ou bezwen byen konekte?

Akoz ou ti pou ganny lord sorti pli o. Ou ti pou ganny dirize lo ki ou pou fer.

E se pou sa rezon Mr Speaker ozordi i annan bokou dimoun pe reponn kestyon.

I annan bokou ki pe dir ki mon pa ti konnen, mon’n ganny dir fer sa.

Me ozordi sa Lalwa i vin a en bon moman, pou nou kapab rezourd tousala.
E dan bann lannen ki’n pase Mr Speaker mon annan en pe letan ki mon en Manm dan Lasanble Nasyonal, bokou fwa nou tann koz lo latransparans, rann kont, oversight me pa ti egziste.

I pa ti en keksoz i ti zis parol ki ti ganny koze, me selman sa pa ti egziste dan sa bann lantrepriz piblik.

Akoz Mr Speaker?

Setaki ki ansarz ti fer sa ki zot anvi e zot ti napa okenn rann kont, senpleman Mr Speaker akoz zot ti pe ganny soutire from serten dimoun pli o alors zot ti bezwen travay dan sa fason.
E sa Bill Mr Speaker li, pou lo en lizye mwan in vin koman en gard.

En gard ki pou fer sir ki i annan tou tranzaksyon e fonksyonnman ki ganny fer dan sa lantrepriz.

Ou kapab mazinen Mr Speaker leksperyans lepase in montre nou, ki bokou sa bann lantrepriz i pa’n anmenn nou dibyen.
La dan mon pe mazin enn, mon mazin SMB - souvandfwa ti annan bann lantrepriz ki ti sanz non e lepok i ti SERECO ti ariv serten sityasyon ladan i sanz non i vin SMB e annou mazinen Mr Speaker anba SMB si sa lartik ti annan en tel Lalwa parey ozordi ACCS pa ti ava pe rod 50milyon ki ti antre lo kont SMB.

(APPLAUSE) HON NORBERT LOIZEAU Apre ti sorti san konnen kot in ale, mon pa pou al pli lwen lo la vi ki i subjudice ou pou dir mwan.
Me selman Mr Speaker avek en Lalwa parey sa ti pou kapab ganny proteze, kot ti pou annan en trace kote sa larzan i ete.

E Air Seychelles par egzanp -Onorab Hoareau in fer sorti en bon pwen, Air Seychelles ti’n tonm dan en depi e ozordi nou kontan ki Air Seychelles pe fer en profi toudmenm.

I pa en gran profi, me selman i en profi.


Ler nou get Linyon Mr Speaker mon mazin dan 6enm 38 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Lasanble, Linyon Estate ti annan en lepok mon krwar i ti drwa pres R15milyon tax.

Lekel ki ti ansarz Linyon Estate?


Se en group sa bann dimoun ki ti pe ganny dirize par serten dimoun pli o, kot lontan Linyon Estate, petet Onorab Uranie pa konnen vi ki li, akoz li i met dimoun devan sant devlopman i pa ti met sa bann dimoun Linyon o sant devlopman parey nou, nou pe met zot ozordi Mr Speaker.

Lontan ti annan dezord Linyon e ler nou ti antre FPAC ti antre Linyon, sa bann letan Onorab Pillay ti lo FPAC ti pe Onorab avek aprann Ramkalawan sa letan.
I ti pe aprann kot Linyon Estate 1an apre - si mon byen zot a koriz mwan - Linyon ti fer en profi!

1 an apre.

Kot ozordi Linyon napa en sef ki dir “touy en koson pou mwan.

Mon le en koson ozordi” e ler sa i arive Mr Speaker sa bann letan avan travayer ki i fer?

I touy enn i partaz zot 10, akoz sef in pran.

Aprezan tou sa bann keksoz ti reste an maske personn pa ti koz lo la.

E ozordi keksoz i annord, ozordi nou pe koz lo IDC?
Wi, nou’n koz lo IDC nou’n koze lo son fonksyonnman ler nou, nou ti dan Lopozisyon.

Akoz IDC ti pe fonksyonn lo li menm, nou pa ti konnen ki ti pe arive laba.

Ozordi IDC i tonm anba Vis-Prezidan.

E mwan mon’n al visit zil Mr Speaker, mon’n al visit zil avek Onorab Lemiel ki’n dir koman Chairman COGA ‘’mon satisfe lafason ki zil pe ganny antreprann.’’ E in praise CEO.

Pa mwan ki ti praise, mon pa ti koze koman Vis- Chair Onorab Lemiel ti praise li.
E ozordi si i annan ki annan problenm, Onorab Larue si ti annan problenm avek CEO ozordi i pa pe fer li akoz?

I napa, keksoz pe deroul byen keksoz pe deroul dan lord nou pe ganny lenformasyon e ozordi pou bann ki santi i annan keksoz mal ki sa msye in fer.

pou Lalwa I annan AML Bill ki’n Anti- pase, Koripsyon ou ti kapab al kot FIU, anmenn en case kont sa msye zot.

Aprezan ozordi ki ozordi zot, zot in pli pa kontan sa msye - anmenn en case.

Anmenn en case kont sa msye e sa msye i pare li pou vin reponn.
Mr Speaker ozordi ler sa Bill in vin - depi yer mon pe ekoute mwan - sak fwa nou prezant en nouvo Lalwa, Lopozisyon i per.

Lopozisyon i mefyan.

Zot dir ou si napa en dimoun ki nou pe mazinen pou al penaliz sa atraver Lalwa.

Mr Speaker savedir i montre ou ki zot sak fwa zot ti fer en Lalwa zot ti fer li pou en dimoun.
39 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 (APPLAUSE) HON NORBERT LOIZEAU E aprezan - e aprezan Mr Speaker ler nou ki pe fer en Lalwa a bonnfwa pou fer sir ki bann regleman ava byen kot Gouvernman i ava anmas plis li.

Lopozisyon pa kontan Lopozisyon pa kontan toultan zot met en keksoz, en dimoun pou ganny pini e ozordi mon kontan.

Onorab SG, Onorab Cosgrow, SG Parti Lepep (eskiz mwan Mr Speaker) in dir ki i satisfe ozordi vreman i annan 6milyon dividend.
Me si sa Lalwa ti annan en Lalwa ki pe get tou sa bann keksoz, ozordi ki mon Gouvernman ti pou anmase ti pou bokou plis ki 6milyon, ki li in koz lo la, 600 milyon - wi 600milyon Mr Speaker.

dividend asire Ozordi, ozordi nou pa ti pe pous, nou pa ti ava pe pous sa kartye maron ki Onorab Loze in koze.

Nou pa ti ava pe pouse sa kartye maron.

Ozordi nou ti ava dan en super yacht, kot nou pe glide.

Akoz?

keksoz ti pou ganny deroule byen.

E mwan mon apresye sa Lalwa Mr Speaker akoz mon war i pou annan lord.
I pou annan latransparans, i pou annan sa vre rann kont ki nou toultan la dan nou pa’n koz Lasanble.

lo E en morso ki mwan mon enterese avek - Onorab Larue in fer sorti byen sa - se seksyon 89 kot i pou protez bann asset sa bann public enterprise.

Be sa en keksoz primordyal pou nou.


E mwan Mr Speaker avek sa detrwa mo mon anvi dir avek Minis, mon kontan sa Lalwa in vini e si i ti’n vin pli boner, pli lontan Mr Speaker i ti pou anmenn bokou benefis pou nou pei kot petet atraver sa bann public enterprise plis larzan Gouvernman ti pou al gannyen, pa 6milyon me bokou plis.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

(APPLAUSE) MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab, Onorab Audrey Vidot.

laparol pou HON AUDREY VIDOT Mersi Mr Speaker.


Bonzour Mr Speaker tou Manm Onorab, Minis ek ou delegasyon e tou manm piblik ki a lekout, en bonzour spesyal pou zabitan Roche Caiman.

Mr Speaker atraver ou, fodre mon bezwen dir ki dimoun pa tro, tro krwar sa ki Onorab Loizeau in dir.
Akoz dernyen fwa si nou rapel tre byen, Onorab Loizeau ti koz en mansonz dan Lasanble lo sa size kanmiyon PMC, apre nou ti vwar kot PMC ti vin denons li dan Lasanble Nas… letan ti 40 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 fer son press conference, alors nou bezwen fer sir kwa ki nou dir.

i Mr Speaker, Ladministrasyon LDS in ganny en manda pou fer pli byen, si vreman ladministrasyon responsab parey nou’n tann Minis dir devan nou Lasanble bomaten, e parey mon koleg Onorab Cosgrow in fer sorti.
Akoz en kalandriye?

akoz ki zot bezwen servi Nasyonal atraver zot mazorite pou zot abiz nou Standing Order e kontinyelman vin sot staz lord pou fer zot Lalwa pase.

zot napa Lasanble ki Si i enportan, si zot konnen i annan Lalwa ki en priyorite organiz zot, annan en kalandriye progranm travay.

Zot sipoze pli responsab ki sa.

Mr Speaker toudmenm sa larogans pouvwar pou servi zot mazorite, nou lo sa kote latab nou rekonnet ki sa Lalwa i annan son lenportans.
E si i annan son lenportans byensir i byen ki piblik i ganny byen leklersisman lo la.

E Mr Speaker, Lalwa son lenportans i bezwen fer sir pou asire ki i annan en regar atraver lenstiti pou asire ki i annan lord e bon gouvernans lantrepriz dan nou bann i piblik.

E Mr Speaker responsabilite sak Gouvernman pou zot ranforsi Lalwa, e asire ki sa bann striktir Gouvernans i marse.

Me konsern ki nou pou kontinyen repete lo sa kote latab, se ki nou, nou annan nou mefyans antre zot laba lo kote LDS.
Zot senserite sa ladministrasyon, espesyalman kot i konsern bann Minis dan sa i ladministrasyon e ki evidan pou piblik ozordi ki kapab konfirmen ki sa bann Minis pa konsistan e onnet parfwa dan zot bann repons, e menm bann parol ki zot dir devan nou Lasanble, akoz apre ler zot al an piblik, lo medya zot fer lezot statement ki kontradwir sa ki ganny dir dan Lasanble Nasyonal.
E se lo sa bann preteks ki nou lo sa kote latab nou kontinyelman mefye zot ler zot vin avek bann Lalwa ki parey zot dir i kapab annan bann bon fason pou annan kontrol bon gouvernans me, nou mefye zot.

Mr Speaker toudmenm nou lo sa kote latab nou rekonnet travay ki bann sponsors sa Lalwa bann fer zot profesyonnel ki pe louvraz pou anmenn Lalwa devan Lasanble, pou zot diskit avek Komite Bill Committee.
Me nou trakase e nou senpatiz avek zot parfwa ler sa bann Lalwa zot ganny demande pou travay lo la, i annan ki pa neseserman vin fran avek zot azanda.

Zot azanda visye ki permet zot servi sa bann 41 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 profesyonnel, pou zot vin avek bann amannman lo nivo pou sanz sa bann Lalwa.
Mr Speaker Lalwa i kapab bon, sa ki nou konnen poudir pou dan responsabilite pou gouvern byen e pou enplimant li me nou konsern i sa bann dimoun ki responsab e la i vin lo nivo Minis pou li kapab pran e enplimant li e asire ki i annan zistis e bon Gouvernans ki pe ganny fer, e la kot nou dir nou, nou mefye zot.

E wi, nou annan tou rezon pou mefye bann Minis.

E nou, nou en listre nou akoz mou mefye zot.


Mon pou donn ler Minis Hassan legzanp; atraver ou Mr Speaker i ti dir ki ki napa logmantasyon dan allowance, dan nouvo allowance pou bann Minis a sa letan i ti pe dir Seselwa fer sakrifis nou dan dir zot in elekte en kof vid.

lo medya Me apre ki nou ti vwar?


Dan PNQ LOTO ki ti la dan Lasanble Minis Derjaques ti demanti Minis Hassan e i ti dir tou sa bann nouvo allowance ki zot bann Minis zot in gannyen lala kot mon dir akoz zot pa konsistans e zot pa onnet ler zot koz avek Lepep Seselwa.

kapab konfye Mr Speaker ki mannyer nou sa Gouvernman - e la ler mon dir sa, atraver ou mon bezwen dir avek Onorab Larue poudir ler i pe dir son Minis i underpaid en kantite Seselwa la deor osi ki pe travay dir ki underpaid.
Me selman ler Prezidan i vin dan Lasanble pou fer son diskour i pa dir sa bann dimoun pe byen travay, o i blanm zot pou kontrer inefikasite son leadership.

annan La ankor i montre ou ki zot mal onnet.

mannyer Erezman nou lo sa kot latab nou rikord, lenformasyon kwa ki nou koze dan sa Lasanble e nou kapab substantiate sa ki nou dir dan Lasanble e menm lo nivo nou distrik ki lenformasyon ki nou, nou pase, ki nou, nou dir pe enport sa ki ganny dir, nou, nou kapab zistifye.
asire pou Mr Speaker nou lo sa kote latab nou konsyans i kler, kler, kler, kler e mwan menm si lo lot kote latab zot pe mirmire mwan Audrey Vidot ne Sanders, mwan mon konsyans i kler e mon pou kontinyen mars mon latet anler.

Akoz mwan mon konnen kwa ki mon koze e ler mon fer keksoz, mon fer sir mon annan mon fe pe enport sa ki annan pou li dir!

Se pou sa rezon ki mon pou redir ankor dan sa Lasanble parey mon ti dir yer, zot dir nou en Lopozisyon fay?

Zot dir fer eleksyon demen zot ki pou gannyen?


Nou, nou dir zot bring it on, bring it on akoz nou, nou’n pare nou.

Nou pa 42 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 bezwen al negosye ek okenn third party pou nou kapab vin ranport eleksyon 2025. i Mr Speaker Lalwa devan nou, nou annan en travay pou fer annou fer li.

Si zot santi annan keksoz ki’n kase zot ki annan manda pou aranze, zot ki pe rule border fer li e nou, nou pa bezwen tyonbo zot lanmen zot pa pti piti zot.
Fer zot travay parey Lepep Seselwa in donn zot konfyans pou it!

Mersi Mr Speaker.

fer do MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Laparol pou Onorab Aglae.

HON EGBERT AGLAE Mersi Mr Speaker, Minis ek ou panel bonzour, tou Manm Onorab e tou dimoun ki a lekout.

Mr Speaker Bill ki la devan nou i konsern lasirans, regilasyon lo bann lantrepriz i anmenn piblik ki dayer reveni dan kof Gouvernman pou kapab siport son bann progranm Bidzeter.
E an dizan sa Mr Speaker plizyer sa bann lantrepriz in souvan o sant bann kritik Lopozisyon lepase, e zot in anmenn diferan mon bezwen osi dir persepsyon lo serten sa bann lantrepriz baze lo zot zirans e osi bann ki ti lo latet sa bann lorganizasyon.

lakizasyon e lanfaz E pou mwan Minis dan ou lentrodiksyon i annan 3 pwen ki mwan mon’n kapte ki i merit mon krwar ganny mete lo la, e mon pou elabor en pti git.

Me avan mon dir sa Mr Speaker mon ti a kontan met detrwa keksoz kler.
Atraver ou Mr Speaker non Onorab Lemiel in ganny servi dan sa Lasanble baze lo son pozisyon koman Chairman COGA, ki dayer i enn son responsabilite.

Olye fer son travay an menm tan i en komite bipartizan, akoz i annan Lopozisyon e parti ki dan Gouvernman ladan.
E si ler in fer son interview in dir pou dir i satisfe ek travay ki pe ganny fer lo sa bann zil, en mwan tan ki mon’n dan politik e dan 6enm Lasanble nou pa’n zanmen kritik travay ki pe ganny fer lo okenn nou bann zil e menm kritik sa ki pe zer sa bann zil ouswa sa ki lo Board sa bann zil.

Se dayer LDS, SNP ki’n lager touzour anmenn en asarnen kont IDC kont Mr Glenny Savy isi dan sa Lasanble.
E menm an deor dan zot ban zournal, dan zot bann papye nou ti souvan fwa war bann piblikasyon e ozordi Onorab Henrie pa la Mr Speaker, e Mr Speaker ou osi ou’n en editer bann zournal Regar, lot ou konn tre byen sa bann keksoz.

43 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 souvrennte So, mon pa anvi vin ek en lapros ipokrizi ozordi pou mwan akoz LDS ki pe gouvernen e ki pe oversee nou bann zil ki zot monte desann detanzantan pou al fer ban pti trip prive.
Mon pa pou fer lipokrizi pou mwan boycott nou bann e lafason ki pe zere e si pe anmenn pei dividends.

Nou pa kapab kontinyen avek sa bann kalite pratik lipokrizi, ki ozordi letan zot ti kriye dan lepase atraver ou Mr Speaker Onorab Larue menm si i pou ankoler li ki ti anmenn bann se vreman pozisyon vreman, lo nivo anbarasan, radikal IDC.

E menm ti kriye sa bann pti Green piti.

Mon pa bliye mon ti dan 6eme lasanble mwan.


Nou bezwen atansyon akoz ozordi se sanmenm sa ki nou ti pe kraze kritike, se sanmenm ki nou pe donn lanmen promote e anbelir.

So, E mwan Mr Speaker si atraver ou sa ki’n ganny dir ozordi dan sa Lasanble lo IDC mon pa konnen si pou annan reperkisyon avek sa msye laba Beau Vallon, me selman annou get byen ki nou dir e annou reflesir.

En lot size ki mon pou touse la, mon pou la pti kou lo sa ki Minis in dir.
Minis in koz lo lefikasite, ou’n koz lo latransparans, fer mansyon lo meritocracy nou ou’n bezwen osi serye e taler mon pou tous en pti bout dan Lartik 23, 24sa Bill.

lo Letan nou pe koz meritocracy nou pou bezwen pran kont osi, lekel ki nou pe apwente e nou bezwen osi konsyan poudir i annan nepotism ki pe arive dan bann e bann lantrepriz piblik pozisyon ki zot pe apwente dan Gouvernman ozordi.
Nou pa kapab denied sa fact e nou bezwen osi reflesir letan nou pe koz lo Lartik 23 dan sa Bill e 24 kot i konsern pozisyon Sef fer Egzekitiv, e osi kot referans Lartik 22 kot i konsern disclosure conflict of interest.

i E letan mon’n lir Lalwa mwan mon ti a kontan zot al pli devan, kot i konsern conflict of interest, deklarasyon zot lentere dan okenn sa bann lantrepriz i pa merit aplik zis pou CEO.

Nou bezwen kler tors avek fanmir ki annan biznes ki pe fer biznes avek sa lantrepriz.
Dalon, nou konnen nou, nou bezwen fer sir al kler sa bann tors byen parey zot ti dir i annan sa bann tors 12 batri ki zot ti annan ki apre 2020 la bann tors in tennyen la, realim sa bann tors 12 batri al klere annou al get en kou.

Akoz i ankor annan koripsyon ki pe pase.

zanmi 44 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 En lot keksoz ankor Mr Speaker ki mon ti a kontan met devan se ki nou bezwen ganny valer pou larzan ki ganny envesti dan nou bann lantrepriz.
Letan nou pe koz i annan larzan valer pou lantrepriz ki pe fer plizyer milyon profi anyelman.

Pa akoz ou pe fer sa gran margin of profit ki ou kapab annan bann lese fer ki pou depans larzan mannyer li i anvi, san pran kont poudir sak pti sou i pou dan lentere pep.

E la pou nou kapab annan lefikasite se sa en fason ki mon krwar poudir nou bezwen gete kot i kapab annan bann pou restriktirasyon anmenn plis lefikasite, koup lo bann gro proze en pe anbisye ki serten lantrepriz.
Nou’n pas dan en faz nou, faz ekonomik sirtou COVID, koup en pe sa bann gro proze anbisye e retourn larzan akoz mannyer mon konpran pei pe fer fas avek bann devizite - Minis Finans i la bezwen rod larzan pou bous serten trou - pou kapab anmenn sa Bidze kot i ti prezante kot i ti sipoze arive.

pa E mannyer mon konpran osi pe tax reveni neseserman forecast parey i sipoze.
So, i bann keksoz ki letan nou ti koze isi, letan nou ti pe pas atraver bann problenm COVID nou ti dir ek Gouvernman aret en pe sa bann gro proze anbisye, kapital retourn larzan en pti gin dan nou landrwa kot i merite kot pep pe bezwen kot pep pe soufer.

i konsern Me zot pa ti ekout nou, in kontinyen avek zot zot biznes ozordi.
En lot pwen ki mon pou touse Mr Speaker se lapwentman kot bann Board, lapwentman e letan mon pe gete Minis i annan en kantite pouvwar anba sa Lalwa pou li pran bann desizyon e menm donn direktiv Board, ok?

Me mwan mon swete ki osi in ganny letan Board apwente e Board i vin avek bann desizyon, se ki Minis pa la zis pou donn en direktiv ouswa pou donn lord.

I bezwen ekoute osi sa ki Board i dir si pa kapab fer, si i en risk annou ekoute nou dir.
E letan mon pe koz risk Mr Speaker, Air Seychelles i en size ki’n ganny sorti osi dan sa deba e bokou pe ganny dir Air Seychelles i dan bann difikilte finansyel, Air Seychelles in faid e se zot ki’n vini pou rescue Air Seychelles.

Me selman ler ou fer serten analiz, e mwan mon’n fer serten resers ozordi 2023 i annan plis ki 64 airline ki’n bezwen ferm laport ouswa in bezwen fer merger.
E osi mon’n en al pli devan mwan lakonpannyen airlines si ou pou al dan sa biznes parey 45 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Seychelles airline ti anvi ne, i en biznes ki i pa neseserman profitab.

I annan en kantite risk ki atas avek e plizyer lakonpannyen in war li dan difikilte, andete pou plizyer milyon dolar akoz difikilte ki zot in fer avek marse.

E Air Seychelles i pa enn leka li, Air Seychelles in pas dan difikilte.
E si nou pou dir move zeran nou bezwen kapab kalifye rezon ki zot dir move zeran.

Mr Speaker okenn dimoun ki dan en biznes letan ou pe fer loss, byensir ou pa pou kapab pey ou det akoz ou pe fer loss.

E ou war li difisil pou pey ou det, e Gouvernman in touzour pe enzekte pou sey kapab kit li a laflot malgre i ti pe fer loss akoz nou santi poudir Air Seychelles i en pride of the nationals, ok?

I annan national carrier ki’n anmenn nou bokou, bokou pride.
E Air Seychelles in size avek son in size bokou bann crew, award in gannyen li ki enternasyonal.

E letan mon pe koz pou fer loss ou pa kapab pey ou bann det sa in ale in akimile over the years sa.
E se la ki i war nou’n anmas nou en gro serten det avek Air en Seychelles, me selman mwan pou mwan Mr Speaker mwan mon salye tou bann travayer Air Seychelles depi son Pilot, depi son bann cabin crew, depi an son ground handling, depi son sekretarya ki’n fer bann bon travay dan lepase e ozordi pou sey kit sa pride kontinyen anvole.
E terminan Mr i Speaker, mon krwar osi enportan ki anba Lartik 24 sa Bill, kot i konsern termination, resignation, removal, vacancy of the Chief Executive Officer, mwan mon’n 6enm Lasanble mon’n get en pe Lalwa en pe Lalwa in pas dan mon lanmen mon’n lir mwan en.

Me selman i annan serten bann bout ladan premye fwa mon war dan Lalwa.
Mon krwar sa i annan ki vin dan Polisi, me selman zot in met li dan Lalwa li menm mon pa konnen si zot pe koriz serten anomaly ouswa si tou Lalwa i lapwentman Chief konsern Executive Officer repas dan tou sa bann Lalwa al fer bann lamannman met tou parey.
ler pou vini kot Mon krwar i enportan sa e pou lantrepriz piblik zot pe fer tou sa, mon napa problenm ek sa e mon swete ki bann aksyon ouswa reaksyon ki’n arive avek serten travayer dan bann lantrepriz piblik, nou pa zis jump lo bann konklizyon ki pa fonde avan ki nou pran bann pou andomaz repitasyon serten sa bann dimoun.
desizyon ki E mwan mon pou lans en lapel an terminan ki tou bann 46 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 CEO ki pe ganny apwente, regard byen sa Lalwa silvouple sa ki dir e anmenn nou bann lantrepriz piblik dan en fason korek.
E sa mon pou koz osi pou enn bann lantrepriz ki mon’n koz lo la dan lepase souvan se PUC ki mon santi poudir PUC malgre nou’n annan bann Lalwa ki’n ganny amande, i annan Lalwa ki pe vini ki konsern li, i devret ganny revwar son loperasyon mwan mon santi e war kote nou bann annan kapab restriktirasyon e koupir;- en mannyer ki son loperasyon, i pa pou bezwen sa sitan gran kapital e osi a pas avek konsonmater bann profi ki ava fer ki en mannyer ki sa bil delo, sa bil elektrik ki nou peye osi i kapab desann.
E an gro Mr Speaker sa bann lantrepriz piblik bokou ladan pe rann bann servis ki enportan e pli zot rann en pli bon servis, mon krwar pli Lepep Seselwa pou ganny en pli bon deal.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Mersi Onorab.

Bon, akoz serten langazman ki mon anvi respekte mon pou aret deba la pou le moman, pou nou repran apre midi e nou a rezwenn 2er.
Me selman mon anvi zis fer remarke an ka piblik i mazinen poudir nou pe koup nou letan travay kourt, i pa leka akoz dan lord Lasanble progranm pou Lasanble travay i ziska midi.

Nou ale laplipar ditan ziskan midi edmi, e mon oule zis ki piblik i remarke ki nou pa pe travay an mwens ozordi, nou abitye travay anplis.

Mersi bokou nou a rezwenn 2er.

(BREAK) MR SPEAKER Bonn apre midi tou dimoun, Minis bann zofisye dan ou delegasyon e bann piblik.
Mon regre mon apologies senser pou retar ki akoz nou ti’n ganny pri dan en travay komite.

Bon, mon napa lot Manm lo lalis pou entervenir, Onorab Georges ou oule entervenir?

Mon en pti pe dezapwente ki zot pa’n lev lanmen avan pou mwan konnen kot nou pe ale, me selman vi ki nou ankor dan staz deba Onorab Georges ou annan laparol.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Speaker.


Mr speaker mon ti anvi lev mon lanmen avan, akoz mon ti konnen ki imedyatman apre ki mon’n lev mon lanmen Onorab Pillay pou lev sa ki pou li e mon krwar se egzakteman sa ki’n arive.
Mr Speaker devan nou, nou annan en prozedlwa ki 47 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 in fer resorti parey Minis bomaten, i annan pou bi ankadre e donn en direksyon travay bann public enterprises dan nou pei, sa ki nou ti apel a en serten letan bann parastatals ki nou apel li bann SOEs.
lir nou sa E la prezan dan sa Lalwa li bann public nou apel enterprise, e public enterprises Onorab Flory Larue bomaten lalis public in enterprises e nou konpran ki zot range atraver en larz levantay aksyon.

Serten gro i lantrepriz ki fer en kantite larzan e ki pey gro dividend, Nouvobanq, SEYPEC, serten i bann lantrepriz ki bokou pli pti e ki kekfwa par fer en kontribisyon enorm dan nou Bidze dan nou reveni nasyonal me zot annan kantmenm en responsabilite.
bann Pou kapab ankadre en gouvernans sistenm bonn parey Minis in dir, i bezwen annan en lankadreman pou siperviz e pou donn en direksyon bann SOEs.

Onorab Wallace Cosgrow i trouve ki sa se en one-size-fits-all, annefe mon pa war sa koman en problenm Mr Speaker, in fact mon war li koman en lavantaz.

Ou bezwen ki ou ptipti ki ou gran, swiv menm lareg e menm prensip.
Dan nou pei nou annan en Companies Act e li i detay bann lareg ki tou bann konpanny i bezwen swiv ki en pti lakonpannyen PTY ant en msye ek en madanm pou koup zerb oubyen fer en pe maintenance dan lakour, oubyen ki i Seybrew ki pey oubyen Amalgamated Tobacco ki pey en kantite tax tou le-z- an en kantite excise tou-le-z- an lo, lo zot resours lo zot travay, lo zot profi ki zot fer.
Si ou kapab annan en Lalwa ki gouvern tou groser konpanny mon pa vwar ki mannyer ou kapab annan en Lalwa ki pou met bann paramet, ki pou met bann striktir an plas pou bonn gouvernans pou sipervizyon bann SOEs.
Alor lo sa pwen mon pa vwar en defayans dan sa enn Lalwa, sa Lalwa i annan parey bann ki’n koz avan mwan e bann nou ki’n lir sa Lalwa akoz i paret ki i annan en bann ki pa’n lir Lalwa akoz dapre zot, zot pa’n ganny sifizaman letan pou zot fer li - malgre ki zot apel zot lekor Lezislater e sa Lalwa in ganny Gazete depi Vandredi ki fer ki pou okenn dimoun ki ti anvi lir en Lalwa 80 paz, nou ti annan Sanmdi, Dimans, Lendi ek Mardi.
A lavaler 20 paz par zour mon pa war ki mannyer en dimoun ki apel son lekor en Lezislater pa ti’n kapab lir sa Lalwa.

Me tou fason pou bann nou ki’n lir sa Lalwa nou ava vwar ki i annan en serten 48 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 kantite detay, lo ki mannyer bann SOEs pou manage zot lekor, bann rapor ki zot bezwen fer.

Ki mannyer bann Board pou ganny apwente, ki mannyer striktir zot ete, ki management pou mannyer zot, zot Sef Egzekitif pou ganny apwente.
Ki mannyer zot kapab ganny e investigate investigation in komanse, ki i kapab arete, mannyer tousala se dan lankadreman sa Lalwa.

Mon pa vwar Mr Speaker e mon krwar ki menm lo kote minoriter, zot in aksepte ki sa Lalwa napa okenn defayans ladan, se en Lalwa ki ti la avan e ki pe ganny perfeksyonnen ozordi.

Public enterprise management, pa nou ki’n envante i ti la avan e la sa ki pe arive se ki sa Lalwa pe ranplas e pe perfeksyonn sa ki ti la avan.
Donk lo kote son striktir, lo kote son konteni, lo kote son lentansyon deryer son Polisi, mon pa krwar nou annan en gran kantite keksoz pou fer menm si, menm si nou dan sa tim ki mefye tou keksoz e mazoriter ki Gouvernman Sesel i fer.

kote E mon krwar bann Manm ki’n koze in eksprim sa dezir, oubyen sa swe, oubyen sa lentansyon.
Par kont Mr Speaker e mon bezwen dir sa o depar, mon partaz serten in rezerv ki serten Manm lo restriksyon lo souleve kontrol, lo restriksyon san travay the field of work ki sa bann SOEs sa bann public enterprises i bezwen fer.

ek Board E restriksyon lo sa ki zot zot bann management i kapab fer ou plito sa eleman kontrol ki annan lo la.

E sa mon partaze akoz pou bann nou ki annan en lespri liberal, regilasyon i en keksoz ki pa ale avek nou.
Nou en minimum regilasyon ki posib pou donn sa antite tou son laliberte pou li kapab, pou li kapab azir.

anvi Me Mr Speaker i annan en me, me nou bezwen konsyan ki sa ki nou pe fer la se nou pe regard bann public enterprises e sa mo public i enportan.

Nou pa pe regar en private company, nou pa pe regard en konpanny kot dimoun in subscribe zot larzan ki zot in envestir dan en lakonpannyen e ki zot annan en board ki annan pou bi maximize zot profi anver kontre tou.
Se pa sa ki nou pe regarde la, nou pe regard bann lantrepriz kot Board bann Gouvernman i sole i swa shareholder swa i annan en mazorite shareholder, shareholding swa i annan en lenvestisman ki’n fer dan sa, dan sa antite.

Alor e tan donnen ki Gouvernman is the principal 49 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 shareholder, annou dir ki pou fer largiman kourt ki se Gouvernman ki shareholder sa bann lantrepriz.

Gouvernman i la pou administre byen Lepep Seselwa.


Sakenn parmi nou isi dan sa pei, sa 100mil nou ki apel nou lekor Seselwa se nou ki annan en par dan sa bann public enterprises.

Alor i normal malgre ki sa i al kont en lespri liberal, i normal ki i bezwen annan en serten eleman kontrol en serten eleman direksyon dan lafason ki sa bann public enterprises pou manage zot lekor e dan fason ki Board pou bezwen travay.
I pa en kestyon nou pa kapab dir parey serten in dir la isi dan sa Lasanble, me serten largiman an deor ki si ou pou bezwen met kontrol lo lafason ki en Board pou travay pa vo lapenn ou annan en Board.

Zis les Minister manage sa bann lantrepriz.

Sa mon krwar se en lespri en lide a kour term, akoz efektivman akoz Gouvernman tou tou Gouvernman, Gouvernman, atraver lemonn e atraver listwar, i pa meyer manager en antite komersyal, e sa nou rekonnet.
Se pou sa rezon ki ler i annan en laspe komersyal dan Gouvernman, travay Gouvernman i retir sa anba son lezel e i met li dan en antite separe.

Akoz en antite separe i toultan pli byen manage en antite komersyal.

Se pou sa rezon ki depi lepok avan lendepandans nou ti komans annan bann parastatal enterprises, akoz Gouvernman ti’n konpran sa pa zis isi Sesel pa nou ki’n envant sa konsep me atraver lemonn.
E donk, e donk, etandonnen ki Gouvernman ki en shareholder pe administre byen son sitwayen Lepep Seselwa ki zot, ki nou ki annan en par dan sa keksoz, Gouvernman i bezwen e i annan en lobligasyon pou fer sir ki management sa bann lantrepriz i o pli o nivo ki posib.

i E ki Gouvernman annan en droit de regard parey nou dir lo lafason ki sa bann antite i ganny manage.
Alor nou bezwen aksepte ki lo en kote Gouvernman pe hive off en serten son aktivite dan en lantrepriz piblik, me lo menm kote Gouvernman still bezwen annan en droit de regard lo sa antite piblik.

i E sa droit de regard i vin fason; 1 se ki dan 3 Gouvernman ki apwent sa Board ki pe regard sa antite.
Dezyenmman se ki parey sa Lalwa i dir Gouvernman ava annan en Manm lo sa Board, sa line Ministry i ava annan en Manm lo sa Board ki pou fer, 50 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 ki pou azir, ki pou azir lo non sa line Ministry.

E trwazyenmman ki sa Board pou bezwen azir dan serten paramet ki nou met devan zot.
Alor Mr Speaker parey mon’n dir lo en kote ou anvi ki sa Board i annan o tan lotonomi ki posib, me pou en antite piblik sa Board i bezwen realize ki i pa kapab azir koman i ti ava fer dan en antite prive akoz i annan en serten responsabilite vizavi Gouvernman.

E kontrol i ganny egzerse par lao sa Board par Minis oubyen Minis Finans, par sa line minister oubyen par Minis Finans.
Alor sa striktir in ganny byen etablir, e ki si sa ki pou ofer nou oubyen ki sa ki pou fer mwan dir ki sa Lalwa i enn ki malgre i annan serten restriksyon oubyen i annan serten paramet ki gid travay en Board ki sa ki pou permet mwan dir malgre sa mon siport sa Lalwa, malgre ki mwan dan mon for enteryer mon krwar ki Board i devret annan lendepandans pou li azir.
Rezon ki mon pou dir ki sa Lalwa i ok, ki fer sa bon balans se premyerman akoz i annan posibilite touzour pou annan en enteraksyon ant Board avek Minis.

Se pa akoz Minis i annan en droit de regard i annan en posibilite li azir, donn direktiv pou eksetera ki toulezour.

i pou fer li Akoz ler sa pou arive obviously sa Board pa pou kapab i pou fonksyonnen annan en fracture.
Sa ki la i en posibilite ki donn Minis en power, en pouvwar pou li azir ler i krwar ki i byen e dan lentere nasyonal e taler mon ava retourn lo sa lespri lentere nasyonal.

Donk premye rezon ki mwan mon pou dir sa Lalwa i koresponn a legzizans nou pei ozordi, se akoz efektivman i reponn a legzizans nou pei ozordi.
E i neseser e i fer en bon balans - pa dan tou ka Mr Speaker, akoz toultan pou annan serten antite ki poudir ki zot pa kontan ki zot annan sa, sa lizye Gouvernman lo zot toultan e i annan en bann ki pou dir ki zot byen happy ki zot annan sa, akoz zot santi zot en pe plis proteze.

Donk, pou annan lo nivo sak antite en none one-size- fits-all.

Lankadreman i parey me sakenn parmi sa bann antite pou azir avek en serten degre lendepandans plizoumwen, serten plis, lezot mwens.
Gouvernman E sa - responsab Gouvernman ki nou annan ozordi - pou konnen kan zot kapab enterfer e kan ki zot pa devret enterfer.

Donk, sa se premye rezon akoz mon krwar parey en 51 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 ki sa Lalwa i achieve - malgre mon rezerv - i achieve sa balans.
Dezyenm rezon akoz mon pou siport sa Lalwa e mon krwar ki in ariv a en bon nivo ou plito ki in ganny drafte dan lafason ki in ganny drafte, e ki mon pou siport li, se akoz i pe ariv a en moman kot nou pe transform sa ki ti la avan e wi nou pou bezwen dir transform sa ki ti pe pase e sa ki’n pase pandan 43an e antre dan en nouvo konsep gouvernans dan sa pei.

Annefe Mr Speaker sa ki nou pe fer e sa ki sa Lalwa pe fer, se pe met lord dan sa ki zot, zot in met dezord ladan.
E nou bezwen Mr Speaker pa zanmen bliy sa.

Sa Lalwa ozordi dan lafason ki in ganny drafte i pe vin met lord kot ti annan dezord.

Alor silvouple bann ki’n met dezord la i pa moman pou zot konplent, i moman pou zot asize e ekoute.

E Mr Speaker mon ava dir zot akoz mon dir sa; en Premyerman sa Lalwa ozordi mannyer i ete pa ti pou permet - pa ti pou kapab permet lakonpannyen parey Air Seychelles al fer sa nivo borrowing ki in fer avek Etihad pou ki en zour i pou dwa $200milyon.
I pa ti pou kapab arive akoz Minis ki annan en droit de regard pa ti pou les sa arive.

Alor mon bann zanmi lo kote minoriter, ki’n anmenn akoz zot ti napa sa striktir neseser oubyen si zot ti annan zot pa ti pe azir dan lentere nasyonal pa konplent.

Sa Lalwa pe vin met lord dan zot dezord e pe anpese ki okenn antite demen i trouv li kot Air Seychelles ti trouv li le 24 Oktob 2020.

Dezyenm legzanp 2020 Development Limited, nou tou nou vwar ki’n arive avek 2020 Development Limited.
Kot pa’n annan ase sipervizyon e ozordi en keksoz ki ti’n devret fini dapre, dapre son tit son public enterprise depi 2020 la in ariv 2023 lanmwatye pa ankor ni fer e det partou kote.

Lala en lot dezord ki sa Lalwa pe vin met lord ladan.

Se pou sa rezon (Onorab Herminie), se sa rezon ki annan clause 100 dan sa Lalwa.

Lala rezon si zot pe rode akoz i annan sa clause 100 dan sa Lalwa, se pou anpes annan Air Seychelles e pou anpes annan defayans 2020 development ankor dan nou pei.
problenm E Mr Speaker menm Onorab i demande “ki si sa, sa konsep national interest?’’ Kote nou’n al rod sa konsep lentere nasyonal?
Mr Speaker mon repons i senp, al demann zot dirizan pandan sa dernyen 43an akoz se zot ki’n envant sa konsep ‘lentere nasyonal.’ 52 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Mwan mon rapel tre byen an 1977 apre ki en serten msye in deside kit pei i ti devret ganny dirize par li e non pa par sa dimoun ki lamazorite Seselwa ti’n swazir, se li ki dan en Lalwa ki apel the Lands Acquisition Act ki’n deside anmenn en konsep ‘national interest.’ Ou a kapab pran en later dan lentere nasyonal.
Ou pa bezwen dir, ki ou pe al fer avek, ou pa bezwen dir ki ou bezwen li pou en rezon piblik, ou pa bezwen dir ki ou pe al fer en lopital oubyen ou pe al met en lema televizyon, oubyen ou pe al fer en pavement, ou pran li anba lentere nasyonal.

Alor nou bann zanmi ki pe asiz lo kote minoriter, pa vin demann nou ki si sa ki sa Lalwa pe dir ler nou koz lo lentere nasyonal, al Ankour al lir en seri zizman li Lakour in pase ki’n eksplik zot e Lepep ‘lentere Seselwa ki savedir nasyonal’.
in Mr Speaker bokou ganny dir egzakteman parey yer pa neseserman lo sa Lalwa, me lo prosedir ki nou’n adopte dan sa Lasanble.

Byen boner nou’n ganny dir ki sa bann zafer First Reading ek Second Reading dan konteks sa Lalwa pe ariv tro souvan - pa devret arive.

Me sa ki sa bann dimoun pa dir nou se ki pa nou ki envante sa First Reading en en Second Reading zour landmen.
Si nou retourn an aryer e nou al regard travay trwazyenm, dezyenm, senkyenm katriyenm, Lasanble nou ava vwar i annan en kantite, kantite legzanp ki zot Gouvernman ti fer First Reading ek Second Reading menm zour.

(APPLAUSE) HON BERNARD GEORGES Alors silvouple, alor silvouple respekte nou Standing Order.

Respekte ki nou Standing Orders i annan sa provizyon ladan, akoz i annan serten ka kot nou pou bezwen anmenn en First Reading ek en Second Reading vitman.

E sa i enn sa bann case.


Si zot Lezislater parey zot kontan dir ki zot ete zot a konpran ki Lezislasyon i bezwen pase dan letan kot i devret pase.

E se pou sa rezon parey mon’n dir ki Standing Orders i permet sa ki nou’n fer yer e sa ki nou’n fer plizyer fwa dan lepase e sa ki zot, zot in fer ler se zot manm ki ti asiz dan sa sez kot mwan mon size ozordi.
Me Mr Speaker ki vreman problenm ki bann Manm lo lot kote latab in annan akoz sa Bill in ganny lir pou Premye Fwa yer e pou ler Dezyenm Fwa ozordi, lamazorite sa Bill i egzakteman parey sa enn ki ti vin devan zot 53 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 e zot in vwar pandan tou sa bann semenn.

Ki sa ki’n anpes zot focus lo sa detrwa seksyon ki’n sanze.

Ki sa ki’n sanze telman ki zot, zot in bezwen fer en teat avek lefe ki nou’n lir li Premye Fwa yer e nou pe lir li Dezyenm Fwa ozordi.
E si, e si zot vwar ki i annan bann defayans dan sa Bill ki zot in koz lo la depi ler zot pe koze bomaten, oli zot proze lamannman pou sa Bill pou zot fer sir ki sa defayans i sorti?

Oli i annan 8 oubyen 9 zot la, enn, de, trwa, kat, sis i la, oli zot annan 8 zot zot lamannman?

lamannman?

Oli Depi Vandredi sa Bill in ganny Gazete zot ti annan Sanmdi, zot annan Dimans, zot ti annan Lendi, zot ti annan Mardi pa zis pou lir nou pou fer fer Lasanble, pou lamannman.
Ni enn zot pa’n anmennen, ni en comma, ni en virgil, ni en ‘N’, ni en ‘the’ zot pa’n anmennen, solman koze tou koze pou zot.

Me Mr Speaker, konnen ki nou, nou’n fer nou, sa tim ki la?

Nou, nou’n asize Vandredi, nou’n asize Sanmdi, nou’n asize Dimans, nou’n asize Lendi nou’n lir sa Bill nou’n depouy li depi premye ziska dernyen nou’n fer en santenn lamannman ki dan sa tracked version la ozordi.
(APPLAUSE) HON BERNARD GEORGES Alor ler mon dir ki dan sa pei e dan sa Lasanble, i annan en kote ki travay e en kote ki konplent, mon pa pe koz manti Mr Speaker, akoz sel keksoz ki zot fer mefyan e alor pa travay zis konplent, opoze, argye, point of order;- la bomaten menm nou’n ganny nou en matter of privileged se tou ki zot konnen, se tou ki zot konnen, se tou ki zot bon.

(Off-Mic) MR SPEAKER Bann Manm silvouple, aret enteronp Onorab deba.
Georges HON BERNARD GEORGES Mr Speaker an mezir ki mon pe regard lafason ki nou Lasanble pe ale avek bokou lapenn ek bokou tristes, mon vwar - e eskiz mwan mon bann zanmi lo lot kote latab pou dir zot sa.

Mon war 7 pasaze pe anbark dan en bis, lontan bann konminyon ti apel Oli Li, La I La, Sweet Lips, eksetera.
La ozordi i annan en kanmiyon ki apel →Mefyans e mon war 7 zot e mon war 7 zot in anbarke, drayver, drayver i anba volan i lev kanmiyon i pa konnen si i pe al Takamaka, si i pe al Bel Ombre zis i drive, zis 54 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 i drive ziska ler bennzin i fini dan son kanmiyon.
Se sa ki nou pe war la ozordi, depi yer Mr Speaker e mon bann zanmi mon annan bokou respe pou zot, me silvouple, silvouple sey fer zot travay parey zot in ganny peye pou en Sey kontribisyon pou fer avanse sa pei.

E dan sa konteks Mr Speaker, dan sa konteks nou’n ganny dir ki lafason ki nou fer avanse sa pei se avek en gal banbou lo en kartye maron.

fer.
fer.

fer Mwan Mr Speaker an konklizyon, mon anvi dir en sel keksoz, en kartye maron avek en gal banbou se sa ki nou’n trouve ler nou’n vin o pouvwar le 24 oktob 2020.

(APPLAUSE) HON BERNARD GEORGES La ozordi, la ozordi a ki sa Gouvernman pe fer e sa ki sa Gouvernman apre midi avek sa Bill i montre ki in sa lepok kartye maron avek gal banbou in fini.

Ozordi parey Onorab Bel Air Onorab Loizeau in dir “ozordi nou dan en super yacht” Mr Speaker avek 3 masin, 300 sevo deryer!
masin i apel Ahmed Afif e 3enm masin la i la i apel Naddy Hassan se zot Mr Speaker.

(APPLAUSE) HON BERNARD GEORGES Se zot avek zot lekipaz ki pe fer marse sa pei.

E ler zot vin dan sa Lasanble Minis mon dir ou sa ozordi atraver ou Mr Speaker ou annan pou zis fye lo sa kote latab pou ed ou fer marse sa super yacht.

Pa fye lo zot laba akoz zot, zot pe anmenn ou lo brizan.
Mr Speaker mon ti anvi an konklizyon reasir Minis ki son Bill pou pase apre midi, malgre tou sa bann koze ki nou’n tande, tou sa bann mefyans ki lot kote i annan e mon dir zot kontinyen mefye zot nou, nou napa problenm nou, nou pe kontinyen travay.

Mr Speaker avek sa detrwa mo mon anvi reasir Minis e sirtou reasir Lepep Seselwa ki pe vin dan bann meeting distrik an gran nonm, ki zot annan en Gouvernman ki pe travay e dan sa Lasanble zot annan en lanmwatye ki pe defann zot lentere.

Mersi Mr Speaker.
Mersi Mr Speaker.

(APPLAUSE) (APPLAUSE) HON BERNARD GEORGES Enn sa bann masin i apel Wavel Ramkalawan, dezyenm MR SPEAKER 55 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Mersi Onorab.

Onorab Pillay ou annan laparol.

entervenan HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

E mon remersi avan mwan pou son bann bon mo lankourazman e son bann bon, bon parol a nou legar, nou vreman apresye.
Zis an pasan Mr Speaker lapolis fek call mwan la, i annan en gro konminyon ki apel Right of Way dan krwaze Mamelles ranpli ek bann lagrenn bat latet ki bannla pe rod son drayver depi 2020.

Mon pa konnen si zot in war li, me selman Lapolis in issue en missing person report pou gete kote son drayver i ete.

Mr Speaker - ou konnen mon kontan ki Lepep Seselwa pe war nou vre kouler, apre tou sa lannen ki nou’n propoz nou lekor koman bann gran defander la demokrasi.
Ozordi nou mars dan super yacht, bwar champagne dan first class e manz caviar 31 fwa dan 31 mwan.

So that’s - Mr Speaker sa i ok ek nou akoz i zot ki o pouvwar, zot ki pe rule border e zot fer mannyer zot anvi.

E si nou pa anvi mwan mon koz koumsa, nou pa koz parey nou'n koze.
Akoz Mr Speaker ler the chief guide, sa chief man lo lot kote latab i dir mwan in lir Lalwa, e i dir poudir bann piblik parey lantrepriz Nouvobanq- be i pa'n lir Lalwa, akoz si i ti lir Lalwa i ti ava war poudir anba sa schedule napa Nouvobanq.

Napa Nouvobanq; napa Seychelles Market Banking International Corporation - napa.

I ti devret lir Lendi, i ti devret lir Sanmdi, i ti devret lir Dimans, apre i lir Lendi en pti kou.
Apard sa Mr Speaker ler son koleg ki pe kontinyen donn li sipor laba deryer i vin nonm Société Seychelloise d’Investissement, mon envit li pou al get press release Minister Finans date 2021 SSI pe close down, depi 2021 pe close down SSI.

Ou konpran, konmsi nou zis, i annan i zis rabase depi Sizyenm Lasanble koz lo Green piti, Green isi, Green laba, ti sipoze met sa boug al kot Anti Koripsyon, napa ki pa pou fer apre pa mwan ki ti boycott sa imsye pa mwan ki ti sa!
Be zot Seselwa prezan pe war zot vre kouler zot zis koze, koze, koze, koze apre zot blanm nou!

Mr Speaker mon pa kapab ganny en konpran ler entervenan ki'n koz avan mwan in pran bann pwen ki mon kote latab in met devan lo annan konsern lendepandans bann Board pou fonksyonnen e dir i dakor tret nou ek sa.

Apre konmkwa ki nou pa'n lir Lalwa.

zot ki i 56 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Konmsi ki nou kapab konpran?

Ki nou kapab konpran?


Be prezan in ariv en staz dan sa Lasanble konmsi depi ‘77 letan nou nonm Mr Rene annou dir osi poudir nou ti en bann bon zanmi Mr Rene.

Nou ti annan Mr Rene lo nou speed dial nou osi, nou ti kapab call Mr Rene.

Annou admet bann realite annou pa pran zis bann zekli anvoy lo kanmarad.

Annou dir Mr Rene in fer en kantite keksoz ki nou, nou admet bann keksoz akoz pa tro, tro byen koz ditor lo lanmor.
Lo defen, sirtou ler defen ti byen ek nou, defen ti estim nou, defen ti call nou, defen ti estim nou e nou ti koz ek defen.

Annou arete sa.

Akoz nou osi nou annan sa bann lenformasyon, mwan mon pa pou fer parey bann dan lepase ki vin met tou keksoz ki mon konnen deor la.

Me nou osi nou annan lenformasyon, nou annan levidans.

Bann ki ti al dan prizon pou ekout sa ki prizonnyen i dir pou enformen - nou konnen sa.
Ozordi sanmenm sa bann ki pe marse dan avyon pe ale vini, pe koz Sesel labous plen, nou konnen sa.

Nou annan levidans.

Be ou konnen ki nou fer nou, nou tenir ou konnen akoz, akoz nou believe dan sa travay ki bezwen ganny fer.

Akoz nou believe dan sa travay ki bezwen ganny fer?

Akoz si zot oule ki nou, nou pran sa 43an - be Mr Speaker atraver ou avek tou respe ki mon annan pou mon koleg Onorab, Tou sa problenm Mamelles lekel ki'n MNA Mamelles plis letan?

So i pa pou pran son bout li?


Nou, nou a pran nou bout.

Prezan ou a dir 43an Sesel ti etablir an 1977 apre sa pa'n ariv naryen.

Selman, selman nou al Qatar pou nou al prezant Sesel koman en legzanp, en pti pei ki'n achieve high income development.

43an ki Sesel in fail, nou al Qatar pou al reprezant Sesel koman en pti pei ki'n achieve high income development.

Be eski zot realize ki zot dir e ki zot fer?


Minis in vin ek en Lalwa devan nou, nou pa'n dir poudir son Lalwa pa bon, nou'n dir nou annan konsern e bann konsern genuine ki nou son oule Minis leksperyans sa dimoun ki'n travay avek son Lalwa pou li eksplike.

dan E i son devwar pou vin eksplike devan Lasanble e ki dayer mon ava dir Minis.
Malgre mon pa antyerman satisfe avek son komansman prezantasyon in fer pli byen ki Vis-Prezidan yer ki'n napa en statistik pou donn nou, akoz in vin avek en assumption in vin avek en lekspektasyon ki zis aprouv Lasanble pou 57 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 nenport kwa ki'n met devan li, e ki dayer in ganny dir par mon koleg Leader lo lot kote latab anmennen nou, nou pou aprouve.

Se sa.

Nou, nou pe met nou konsern devan e i nou rol koman Manm Lasanble pou met konsern devan.
La osi zot pa kontan nou met konsern devan annou ferm Lasanble Nasyonal, annou fermen e nou ava rule by decree, akoz i paret ki poudir parey sa msye ti dir Mont Buxton menm i ti dir oule vin en mini Albert Rene, oubyen oule vin sa akoz ou blanm Mr Rene pou étre en dimoun ki ti en diktater.

Akoz mon vwar ou pe fer tou bann keksoz ki dan menm paz sa bann diktater, meeting politik piblik.
Nou Manm Lasanble nou, nou annan nou drwa nou annan nou plas dan sa Lasanble, nou annan nou devwar e nou plas i ganny garanti par Konstitisyon e si nou gran defander Konstitisyon annou respe sa.

sipoze bann Mr Speaker Lalwa ki'n vin devan nou i koz lo plizyer size.

E nou, nou annan konsern.

Par egzanp mon premye konsern ki mon annan se ki akoz ki bann labank pa dan sa schedule.

E mon son konnen Minis pe leksplikasyon ekspekte kekfwa rezonnman se ki bann Labank i tonm dan mon anba Labank Santral.
regulatory purview Me pa Labank Santral ki annan bann shares dan bann labank.

Se Lepep Seselwa e si mon pa tronpe se PS, Minister Finans ki sipoze detanter bann shares ki nou annan dan en Labank Nouvobanq par egzanp.

So mwan mon ti ava pli konfortab pou vwar ki malgre ki Labank Santral i annan son rol regilatwar ek sipervizyon, me an sa ki konsern nou bann labank dan shares Nouvobanq, se Minis pou Finans ki responsab.
Akoz la nou fek tande i annan bann sityasyon ki'n pase kot sa labank, sa i ava permet nou pou fer ki i annan en dezyenm lizye ki pe regard lentere nou bann shares dan sa labank.

Pa son credentials - pa eleman fonksyonnman, sa i ava rol Labank Santral.

bann son Be nou, nou pa vwar bann labank ladan, so byensir nou devlop en mistrust, en mefyans, akoz ki i pe ganny fer dan sa fason.
Eski Labank Santral i pe pran lentere nou shares dan sa labank e i dividend ki sa labank pou pey nou, or Labank Santral pou pran lentere fer sir ki sa labank i fonksyonn, dapre son bann regilasyon dapre bann eleman ki dan Financial Institutions Act?

58 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Mon krwar it will be the former that is my opinion.

Petet mon mal, e sa mon bezwen kapab dir ek Lepep Seselwa akoz Nouvobanq i en eleman enportan dan nou striktir finansyel.
E annefe labank oubyen en antite Gouvernman ki kapab fer en kontribisyon sibstansyel dan reveni pei.

li vwar largiman Akoz apre tou ti poste bann profi rikord resaman.

pou Menm Commercial Bank.

So ler nou pa ladan, nou konsernen.

En lot eleman ki nou pa vwar ladan nou pa vwar Seychelles Pension Fund ladan.

Now i pa en SOE wi, me i bezwen annan en kad regilatwar ki anvlop li.

Zot menm zot, zot koz lo la selman ler in ariv ler pou zot koz lo ladan Lalwa zot pa kapab.
So nou demann Minis e Minis i eksplike i dir nou akoz lekel ki pou regarde, zis pou nou tir tou sa bann deba akoz apre tou Pension Fund nou to ki la anndan tou Seselwa i met son larzan ladan.

Ankor enn fwa mon kapab mal dan lafason ki mon pe war keksoz.

Me eski la fason ki nou pe fer i pou permet li pou li realiz sa ki i bezwen fer vizavi nou bann kontribyan?

En lot eleman enportan Mr Speaker ki mon bezwen koz lo la, e mon pou dir dan sa fason.
Si mon ti annan en ler lagonm pou sak fwa ti dan Onorab Georges Lopozisyon i ti boycott en keksoz ki Gouvernman pou fer i ti fer, i ti pou napa naryen lo map Sesel.

Akoz la ozordi zot pe defann lefe ki nou annan tou sa bann konpannyen tankers ki aparet lo sa Lalwa, napa naryen pou fer ek Minis sa.

Sa ti sa letan politik ki sa lot parti ti pe anmennen.

Fer nou tanker anmenn delwil isi, akfer nou pe rod tanker, ozordi nou ki pe koz lo profi rikord ki SEYPEC pe fer.

E 43an nou'n en kales kase selman.


Mwan mon pa antre dan desizyon ki Minis i bezwen fe as per son policy e son travay ki i bezwen fer me koman en Manm Lasanble mon annan drwa demann serten kestyon ki valab vizavi la fason ki Gouvernman i oule fer serten keksoz.

lo En lot size enportan, nou lotonomi.

Mon koz lekspektasyon sete ler nou ganny nouvo Lalwa PMC i pa asiz ankor anba lebra Minister Finans.

Akoz se ki Minister Finans i dictate lakantite staff e lakantite resours ki i pou gannyen.
Mon kontan vwar poudir anba seksyon 5(2) nou koz lo lotonomi pou sa lenstitisyon.

Me anba seksyon 17 nou retir sa lotonomi par redonn Minis pouvwar pou donn direktiv Komisyon.
59 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 E ler mon regard anba seksyon 17(2) Minis ki pou demann bann SOEs e so pou mwan mon bezwen demann mon lekor se; Eski nou anvi en Antite ki asize la, ki regard sa bann keksoz dan en fason neutral, oubyen nou anvi en keksoz ki anba full kontrol Gouvernman ki pou dir sa bann antite ki pou fer?
E Gouvernman pa fini i repran en dezyenm doz kontrol mon kapab konpran ek son largiman petet Minis i ava eksplik plis, anba seksyon 100 i retourn sa eleman ki se bann Minis ki annan kontrol lo sa ki pe pase.

Be mwan mon rapel ler mon ti anmenn kestyon lo Travizory, zanmen nou ti'n deza ganny dir poudir Law Chamber ki ti asosye avek Minis Derjaques ti ki pe fer travay legal pou Travizory.

Ki ti en konpannyen ki ti anba son responsabilite.

E sa pa'n ariv dan 43an, i fek arive la!


So kestyon ki nou bezwen demande se eski nou trust zot ler zot pa oule donn nou lenformasyon?

En eleman Mr lot Speaker annou pran sa eleman disparisyon bann loto State House.

Ok, Minis ti fer serten statement i son drwa pou fer statement akoz Minis i bezwen fer statement i en Minis.
Be ler nou counter son statement ki i annan avek zofisye Gouvernman ki ti vin ti e mwan mon la, personnelman demann ek sa zofisye Gouvernman pou lir sa pou donn nou, pou montre nou sa lalis, ou ti a met mwan deor Mr Speaker.

Vis-Prezidan in ganny ti ale;- 86 retrouve i la aprezan.
loto korek So kestyon ki mon pou demande se eski nou trust ki alors en detanter en lofis politik ki anba kontrol en lot politisyen, pou vin donn nou lenformasyon lo desizyon ki i pou pran vizavi Public Enterprise Monitoring Commission?

Kan nou largiman all along e mon rapel ler ti annan diskisyon lo reformasyon sa Lalwa, sete pou an en PMC ki kwazi e autonomous endepandan.
Les li raport direk ek Prezidan, akoz Prezidan i annan rol Sef Deta e Sef Egzekitiv e koman Sef Deta ler nou koz lo bann state- owed enterprises i tonm anba son responsabilite.

Be i pa kapab pe raport along en reporting line kot i annan lezot endividi ki kapab enfliyans son desizyon.

Be prezan i annan en lot pwen kardinal ankor ki mon bezwen met lo latab, ki fer nou krwar poudir i annan en mistrust.
Minis dan son prezantasyon 60 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Me selman dan pa'n koz ek nou ditou lo lenportans sa Lalwa pou IMF.

en kominikasyon ki mwan mon'n gannyen kominikasyon i dir poudir sa Lalwa i enportan pou IMF e zot bezwen li fer si ki in pase by le 31 Me, be akoz zot pa dir nou sa bout?

E apre lo mon koleg lo lot kote latab i a dir nou poudir nou zis viv an pasaze.
Mr Speaker Seselwa pou realize poudir pa nou i pasaze, lo sa bato nou menm i pe tir delo, nou menm ki dan masin, nou menm ki pe netway vit, nou menm ki pe fer tou keksoz e i annan en group dimoun kot zot ete zot?

Zot pe asize devan lo super yacht pe bwar champagne ek manz caviar.

Prezan ki arive yacht in vin sitan lour, ki salte ki'n larivyer Maryann nou pa ankor kapab tire depi ler nou'n ganny eleksyon.

Napa point of order la, ou'n koze mon'n reste trankil, ok. MR SPEAKER Silvouple, Order!
HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker, mwan mon krwar poudir ler mon get Minis, Minis i anvi achieve en keksoz li i paret mwan li, i kler sa akoz i en zenn Seselwa e mon i en dimoun ki konnen entelizan e i anna lanbisyon.

Ok me i pa operate li tousel li i operate within en konteks, e i mon rol pou prezant en lot viewpoint avek li i dakor, i pa dakor pe enport.

Me mon'n prezant ki avek ou e mon'n fer mon louvraz pou mwan dir ou.
At the end of the day ler ou sorti koman Minis Finans Sesel la ou, ler ou'n Minis Finans en pei parey Sesel ou laport i ouver.

For everybody!

Mon napa okenn dout ki demen ou riske kot World Bank, demen ou riske kot IMF, demen ou riske partou, napa problenm ek sa.

Konpran.

E mon pou fyer ler mon war ou pe ariv sa bann nivo akoz ou pou en Seselwa ki'n ariv en nivo.
Me i pa eskiz lefe ki mon pa kapab fer mon louvraz pou dir ou kot mon annan konsern dan keksoz ki ou anmenn devan, whether mon byen oubyen mon mal, mon bezwen met devan ou.

E se sa ki mon pe fer ozordi apre midi Mr Speaker e ki mon pa ganny en konpran akoz Leader Parti Mazoriter pa ankor kapab aksepte ki i pa en diktater e mon pa lo en bitasyon somewhere pe travay pou en msye ki ansarz mwan.
E no matter what ki arive dan sa pei personn pa pou met ledwa anba mon nennen pou dir mwan ki piu fer ler mon asiz la dan sa sez.

Sorry!

61 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Mr Speaker mwan yer swar en zenn fiy i call mwan, ok, en fiy i apel Aisha in call Onorab Zialor.

Onorab Zialor i dir ek li koumsa poudir be bann US dan Gouvernman pe fer sabotaz.

Mwan mon dir ek li poudir mwan pe enport ki ou siporte, anvoy mwan ou bann dokiman mon pou al rode ki'n arive ek ou.
Mon pa pou servi okenn largiman pou okenn dimoun ki call mwan pou dir ou tel keksoz i koumsa.

Ou call mwan ou pe rod en led, si i en keksoz en departman Gouvernman pa pe attend tou mon pou rode, that’s my role, that’s my job.

konsern ki I don’t care ki ou ete; ou LDS, ou US, ou third force, mon pa care mwan!

And that’s the whole point ki nou bezwen fer.

I konnen ki mon pe dir li, dir li deny.


Rezon mon pe dir sa Mr Speaker, se akoz mwan mon vin avek en konviksyon ler mon vin la anndan en konviksyon pou mwan fer en travay pou Lepep Seselwa e realiz lanbisyon ki sa pep i annan.

Akoz ler zot pou'n sorti o pouvwar nou ki pou bezwen osi vin o pouvwar pou anmas sa ki zot in fer e nou, nou pa oule zot spoil sa pei ler nou, nou vin o pouvwar.
I senp a e deza zot in kre en bon pe keksoz ki pe vin bann impediment pou nou kapab move forward, e sa ki nou, nou bezwen fer se rod en solisyon lo ki mannyer nou kapa bouz pli devan.

Mr Speaker mon vin lo en lot pwen.

E sa, sa ki konsern bann antite e fonksyon Public Enterprise Monitoring Commission.

Ki mwan mon konsernen avek se ki mon vwar sa bann fonksyon i en pe limite.

Ler mon regard son bann fonksyon in war li en pe limite.
Mon konpran striktir ki Minister Finans i annan, i annan diferan lezot striktir ki Minister Finans i servi pou li monitor kwa ki pe pase across Gouvernman.

I byen.

sa increase Be eski pa ti ava pli ideal pou bann fonksyon.

Si nou ti oule fer en Lalwa ki konpletman depar en depar konplet avek sa ki nou ti annan pou nou al sa nouvo nivo - sa lot nivo, nou ti kapab extend sa bann fonksyon.
Akoz ler nou regard fonksyon sa Komisyon Mr Speaker, pou mwan mon ti a kontan vwar en pe plis travay an sa ki konsern bann eleman risk asosye avek bann SOEs.

Me plito nou'n met sa dan lanmen en Minis, akoz se Minis ki bezwen fer risk assessment lo bann major move forward ki SOE i bezwen fer.
62 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 E dezavantaz avek sa se ki at the end of the day en SOE i ganny- i perdi sa sans konfidans pou li kontinyen bouz devan e toultan i bezwen pe second guess son lekor vizavi sa dimoun ki sipoze ansarz li.

Tousala i bann pwen fondamantal ki nou lo nou kote nou'n avans devan.

kontan konnen E nou'n annan rezon dir ou annan mefyans akoz Minis li e la mon kontinyen lo sa pwen i pa'n kapab dir nou poudir sa in annan en koneksyon avek IMF.
So ou ti a ki koneksyon sa i annan ek IMF.

E bokou konversasyon ki mon'n gannyen ek World Bank ek IMF, souvandfwa zot koz ou lo state-owned enterprises ki pou mwan pa fer sans.

In deza annan konversasyon par egzanp ki World Bank in dir ou ki rol STC dan nou lekonomi.

siprim Be eski nou pou go according to sa ki World Bank in dir ou oubyen nou pou konsider nou kontakte nou pei?
Tousala i bann kestyon ki lozik akoz nou annan en Lalwa enportan ki pe vin devan nou e nou annan drwa koman Manm Lasanble pou prezant nou bann konsern e koz lo la.

konklizyon Mr Speaker, nou'n ganny dir si nou annan en problenm ek Lalwa anmenn lamannman, so mon krwar mon bezwen dir An ek mon koleg pran desizyon.

li en Ok, mon'n Avan sa i pe dir mwan i pare menm dan son speech Bidze, son speech SONA i dir mon annan mon mazorite e mon pou servi mon mazorite.
anmenn lamannman mon'n anmenn Mosyon pou repeal S.I.

ki fer monte laz Sekirite Sosyal i pa'n siport mwan selman dan meeting piblik Prezidan i dir pe al konsidere.

Mon pa konnen ki i pe konsidere kan i annan en nouvo S.I.

ki'n pase e li i ti la ek mwan i pa'n fer naryen.

Me selman i asize dan meeting piblik i ekoute la i dir mwan anmenn lamannman be mon'n anmennen lamannman dan Lalwa Mayor of Victoria?

Oli sa Lalwa?

Konmsi aret koz mon lo anmenn lamannman akoz ler nou anmennen ou pa oule ou pa dakor.
So ou bezwen pran en desizyon ki oule, swa ou pare pou les nou partisipe swa ou pa pare pou les nou partisipe swa ou servi ou mazorite, swa ou pou fer la dictature, Mr Speaker mwan mon pe enport.

Fer sa ki oule, dir sa ki oule, tap ou tanbour, zwe ou anbark ou gitar, kanmiyon laba ki'n Mamelles, al met fuel ladan, fer sa ki oule ou.

Me selman ou pa pou anpes okenn Manm US dan pri 63 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 koze ler zot anvi koze dan sa Lasanble.
Ou pa pou fer i ou pa pou entimid okenn Manm US ki swa i Onorab Herminie, ki swa i Onorab Aglae ki swa i Onorab Gill, ki swa i Onorab Vidot, ki swa i Onorab Cosgrow, ki swa i Onorab Loze ler zot koze.

Akoz tou sa bann Manm ki la i annan menm drwa egal avek ou pou la dan Lasanble.

E mon ti ava envit ou pou komans respekte sa fe ki ou'n swadizan defann pandan sa plizyer lannen.

Avek sa mon remersi ou Mr Speaker.

(APPLAUSE) ou deor MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Mon a koriz ou lo en pti pwen.


Zanmen mon'n met ou deor, akoz ou'n demann en kestyon.

Mon'n met ou konportman dan Lasanble i annan en diferans.

E ou a remarke ki mon pa'n met ou deor menm si ou'n dir en keksoz ki mon krwar i pa vre.

Mersi.

akoz Mon annan 2 Manm ki'n lev lanmen, Onorab William ou desist.

Ok. Onorab Arissol mon ti war ou'n lev lanmen ti pou demann soz- ok mon pa pou kapab deny ou drwa pou koze me selman anba Order 57(11) mon a limit ou letan mon a donn ou maksimonm 15 minit.
HON SANDY ARISSOL Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mon anvi dir ou mersi pou sa 15 minit ki ou’n donn mwan.

E mwan anvi komanse lo not ki Onorab Pillay in dir poudir personn pa pou anpes li koze ek son lekip dan Lasanble Nasyonal.

Mon anvi mon osi koman Chief Whip lo sa kote latab fer kler poudir napa okenn mon lo LDS ki annan Manm lentansyon anpes bann Manm US koze lo lot kote latab.
Zot lib pou zot dir e demann milyon PNQ e demann Kestyon Without Notice, fer zot deliberasyon, dir sa ki zot oule, walk out ler zot anvi, pa asiste Lasanble, pa asiste bann sesyon ki nou fer, pa fer okenn bann negosyasyon deryer rido parey zot dir ek nou.

Zot lib pou zot fer sa ki zot anvi e napa personn lo nou kote latab ki pou anpes zot koze.

Pa bliye sete nou dan LDS ki'n anmenn laliberte lekspresyon dan sa pei, e pa nou ki pou kas sa Mr Speaker.
Mon komans koumsa parske ou konnen i annan en kantite keksoz ki'n ganny dir e i enportan pou nou pran kont tou sa ki'n ganny dir apre midi.

Me i ana en mo ki nou'n remarke ki US i servi depi nou'n antre dezyenm term se sa mo mefyans.

Tou keksoz zot 64 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 koz lo la zot koz lo mefyans.

Letan Minister Lasante ti envit nou bann Manm Lasanble atraver Biro Madanm Clerk, Biro Speaker zot pa ti partisipe zot ti refize.
Parske pou zot sete en keksoz ki ti ganny fer deryer rido alors zot pa ti deal deryer rido.

Me mwan dan enn mon deliberasyon 2 semenn pase mon ti envit zot pou vin meeting piblik ki pe ganny organize Prezidan par Larepiblik parske pa pe fer deryer rido sa, pe fer devan rido dan gran kler devan medya, bann link ou kapab la Australie, swazir al Langleter, tou dimoun i vwar still zot refize partisipe.
lo Prezan mon en pe konfize parske mon pe rode kot sa mefyans i vini, prezan Manm ki pa asiste meeting li i vini i dir ek nou bring it on eleksyon.

Be ki mannyer ou kapab bring it on eleksyon ou’n win par 5 vot dan ou distrik?

E zis meeting ki'n ganny fer dan ou fini perdi ou distrik ou'n distrik, e ou vini avek en Mosyon bring it on Mr Speaker.

Sa se Onorab Vidot.

mefyans, akoz mefyans mon a dir zot zistwar mefyans zot a kapab deny.
Zistwar mefyans i vin letan en dimoun ki ganny son case kot Lakour i win son case e i ganny son larzan.

Ou konnen ki zot dir li Mr Speaker, pa So pran sa larzan demann en pe plis sa dimoun i refize i dir ek zot non, mon'n win mon case, mon bezwen ganny mon larzan.

Zot dir ek li non, refize, rod en pe plis e fer en travay pou zot.

Alor sa dimoun i war zot koman en i mefyan, i mefye zot.
Dezyenm legzanp, letan i annan bann mirmirasyon antre zot pa konnen lekel ki pou vin Prezidan Parti, pa konnen lekel ki pou vin Leader Parti, pe rode lekel bann ki pi vin bann Sekreter bann pozisyon kle dan parti.

E menm dan zot bann fonksyon dan serten piknik kot zot in ale, bann dimoun pe koze pe dir annou veye nou bezwen pa lager antre kanmarad parske bann dimoun lo lot kote i war nou.
Alor i bann tousala mefyans ki egziste Mr Speaker e menm gran sef in ganny challenge, parske i annan en larzan konsiltan ki i pe pran ki bannla pe sey konsilte li pou pa pran, me asiste lezot dimoun ki dan bezwen.

Tousala i bann mefyans ki zot pa dir nou.

Prezan dan zot tou zot konfizyon zot vini, akoz zot pa tro konnen si zot pou partisip avek nou, si zot pou al avek Lasanble ki zot pou fer.
Alor zot tou zot vin lo sa moto mefyan, ‘’nou mefyan 65 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 zot, nou pa krwar dan zot, nou pa tro konnen ki zot pe fer.

‘’ en Selman keksoz enteresan lo sa proze Lalwa bann premye Manm ki'n koze i dir ek ou, ou konnen nou'n ganny en pti gin letan nou pa'n ganny bokou letan pou get sa Bill, Gouvernman in vini in bouldoz nou.

Selman si nou get rikord Mr Speaker dan mon 15 minit tou Manm lot san in kote US eksepsyon.
koze Selman zot pa'n ganny letan pou get Bill zot, en bann in vini in dir ki e nou seksyon 22, seksyon 41(1), seksyon 32(3) lot in dir nou clause 100, clause 27.

Sa i montre poudir parey Onorab Georges in dir nou annan en Lopozisyon ki pa enterese donn lankourazman naryen li, i pa travay avek enterese pou Gouvernman li son bi se mefyan e refiz tou keksoz.
pou Mon kontan letan Onorab Pillay in mansyonn an relasyon avek lamannman ki i ti anmennen pou Mayor Victoria’s Bill, be ki'n arive In ganny avek sa Bill?

withdraw.

Letan i ganny withdraw tou son lamannman i tonm avek ziska ler i ava retournen, i ava kapab fer propozisyon nouvo lamannman e i a vin lo latab parey nou pe fer e nou ava annan sa diskisyon kler ki nou fer.

I enportan sa Mr pe Speaker.


Be letan Onorab Wallace Cosgrow i vini i dir ek nou koumsa poudir sa Bill la, i en pe annan tro bokou kontrol lo la i annan en kantite kontrol.

Be mon mazinen li i kontan sa vye sistenm avan, kot ti napa kontrol kot sakenn i vini i fer son kalite dezord.
Parey kot SBFA, en pti pe dan Zarden Botanik en pti pe partou, partou kot tou dimoun sakenn napa kontrol, tou Minis i lav lanmen apre ou tann tou kalite rapor i vin kot Lasanble Nasyonal e bann ki ti dir pou forgo nou pa pou pran apre finalman zot pran.

So nou bezwen annan kontrol, nou bezwen annan en Gouvernman ozordi ki serye, ki annan sa bann kontrol ki Onorab Wallace pa dakor Mr Speaker.

Me letan Onorab Larue in komanse Onorab Larue in dir en keksoz enportan.
Sa proze Lalwa pe koz lo bann asset letan en Gouvernman.

Be Gouvernman i annan asset - mon'n tann Minis dir si mon pa tronpe 35.6bilyon, 7mil travayer, 687milyon ki vo 84poursan reveni.

Be zot be pa en pti git asset sa!


Si nou koman en Gouvernman serye nou pa met lanmen lo la, annan kontrol konnen ki pe pase nou pou end up parey 2020, pon pa 66 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 fini, later i ganny vann kontrol antre kanmarad - pas lo mwan - ‘’pa fer mwan pey sa bout - fer mwan pey sa pti bout - donn mwan kontra netwayaz - mwan menm mon ki pou sekirite.

sa ansyen Aprezan sa finalman sa enn i get sa enn, sa enn i get lot, loti get lot.
Nou pa anvi al dan sa sityasyon Mr Speaker.

Nou pa anvi al dan sa SMB.

sityasyon Kanmaron ki ti arive avek?

Ti komanse, ti aret dan semen?

Linyon Estate La Digue ki ti arive?

Koson ti ganny partaze antre fanmir.

Sipoze sonny 1500 zot sonny 600 apre zot pran zot menm.

La ozordi zot vini zot vini zot dir ek nou koumsa tou dimoun lo Board nou zanmi, tou dimoun lo Board nou fanmir, be Linyon Estate avan lekel ki ti lo la mon fanmir, mon zanmi?
SMB sa letan lekel ki ti frer, mon ansarz sa mon tonton, mon kouzen, mon kouzin?

Ozordi tou keksoz pa bon pou Lopozisyon Mr Speaker, me par kont letan tou keksoz pa bon pou zot annou get en kou STC.

STC ozordi pe asire ki i pe revwar son komodite tanzantan.

bann pri La mon aprann ki i annan en konstriksyon en cold store pou nou kapab store plis fasilite plis manze ankor.

STC pe revwar ki mannyer i kapab anmenn manze zannimo dan pei pour ki i kapab vin en pe pli meyer marse.
PUC, PUC dan tou sa difikilte lavi ki i pe fer fas avek zot pe sey manage sa gro elektrisite, pour ki sa Seselwa son kou utilities i redwir.

letan nou IDC ozordi mon kontan letan zot koz lo IDC.

Zot dir lo nou ti dan Lopozisyon nou ti konplent nou pa ti kontan Mr Savy, nou pa ti konnen ki pe arive.

Mr Speaker nou koman en Lopozisyon sa letan ki ti annan en mazorite, parey zot in dir nou ti nou drwa pou nou kestyonnen rode ki pe arive.
E ou konnen ki nou ti fer, Leader Lopozisyon sa letan Onorab Ramkalawan ki ti annan en mazorite, ki ti kapab met presyon Gouvernman en keksoz ki zot pa kapab fer lot kote zis zot pou gronnyen, zot pour ronfle, zot pou fer tapaz, met presyon lo nou, nou non;- li i ti kre en Komite ki ti apel Komite Zil.
IDC pe I ti ganny sans tou lede kote parti al visit tou bann zil ki annan pou fer ek Sesel, gete fer, rode kot ki problenm i ete, sa ki nou'n ti fer, nou pa tou asize zis nou ti mirmire, nou pa ti dir nou mefye Gouvernman sa letan mefyans, mefyans, mefyans.

Me nou ti fer aksyon.

Mon'n tann Onorab dir poudir en lepok nou ti annan 67 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 en gro tors 12 batri, wi, wi, wi nou'n kler en kantite landrwa nou dan FPAC, me la zot sipoze annan en tors 24 batri.
Be kisisa ki zot in klere?

Pa nou ti ganny dir ki zot pe al rod zot 50milyon.

Nou pa ankor tann naryen ziska prezan.

Ok?

Nou ti ganny dir tousala me nou, nou ti kapab fer en travay.

Letan mon pe koz lo IDC ozordi mon fyer ler mon ti La Chine avek bann lezot mon bann koleg mon aprann ki poudir prawns Coetivy pe ganny vann.

Be tousala i bann travay ki pe ganny fer.

SEYPEC ozordi SEYPEC fuel pe asire menm pri aletranze i montre nou pe sey manage tou pou asire ki balans ki pour ki pri i stabilize.
Air Seychelles, letan nou ti vin zwenn pei Air Seychelles avek sa fardo ki nou ti vin zwenn.

Me ozordi tou dimoun i fyer.

Nou letan nou ti dan Lopozisyon ki nou ti fer nou ti anmenn Air Seychelles avek son Board dan Lasanble, rod kestyonnen, lenformasyon.

Rode ki problenm, gete ki mannyer nou kapab sofgard bann travayer Seselwa ki laba, get bann pri Mahe, Praslin pou asire ki tou dimoun i happy.

Sa ki nou ti fer koman en lopozisyon sa letan.


Nou pa ti ed mefyan, nou Gouvernman an menm tan an sey ti mazinan Seselwa.

bann travayer Linyon Estate La Digue mon'n koz lo la, be letan Onorab Loze i vini i vin dir ek nou poudir li Onorab Loze ler i koze se li ki koze e li ki prepar son koze, i vre akoz zis li ki tande ler i koze!

Personn pa tande letan i koze.

Sa i ok sa nou'n ganny en konpran sa Mr Speaker, nou pa pou kapab al tro lwen avek sa.
Me sa ki mon kontan ozordi sa 88 paz ki nou'n ganny dir Gouvernman in vin avek en keksoz ki serye, pour ki pei i bouz dan en lot direksyon.

Sa zafer vini dir nou, nou pe asize pe manz caviar pe bwar champagne la, sa i bann ilizyon ki zot pe kontinyen viv ladan, ki zot mazinen ki zot ti fer dan lepase.

Alors zot pe reve pou zot vin ankor pou zot kontinyen zot champagne, mazin zot aki pou zot manz caviar, pou zot monte desann, zot kontinyen mazin sa zot.
bwar Se pour sa rezon zot pe dir ek nou fer eleksyon demen bomaten.

Non, nou pa pou fer eleksyon demen bomaten nou.

Nou annan en manda pou nou servi sa pep, nou pourswiv nou manda nou pou apre ki nou pou fer eleksyon.

E tou bann ki pe kriy ‘’bring it on’’, zot a kontinyen fer en pe travay, asiste bann 68 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 meeting, bann meeting i byen enteresan.
E letan ou ekout zot ou vwar ki zot pe swiv meeting tre byen mersi e pour sa mon ti a kontan felisit mon Prezidan avek tou bann Minis ek tou bann MNAs pou zot kontinyen fer sa bann meeting kot bann ordiner Seselwa dimoun Seselwa i kapab demann kestyon e osi kapab klersi plizyer dout ki egziste.
Mon ti a kontan osi profite felisit Onorab Georges;- mon'n aprann poudir ou'n Mamelles pou plizyer lannen e naryen pa'n ganny fer, sa ki in bezwen rapel bann dimoun deor Onorab Georges in Mamelles pou plizyer lannen me sete Gouvernman 43an ki ti la, ki ti anpes li fer sa ki i ti anvi fer Mamelles.

Me Onorab Georges ozordi i ankor Mamelles anba nouvo ladministrasyon apre 2an edmi e i annan keksoz ki pe bouze dan son distrik, e i annan keksoz ki pou bouze dan son distrik bann lannen ki a pe vini.
E avek sa detrwa mo Mr Speaker mon anvi reasir Minis e remersye tou mon bann Manm ki'n travay an fer relasyon avek sa Bill e remersye bann profesyonnel ki asiz avek Minis devan bann ki lo lot latab akize e tou bann ki dan tou background ki kontinyen fer travay byen pou sa pei.

bann Fodre pa nou bouskil profesyonnel.

nou Annou ankouraz zot donn zot sipor parske zot fer en kantite travay pou nou pei, pour ki nou pei i bouz de lavan avek sa nouvo vizyon ki nou, nou anvi Mr Speaker.
Mon kit 2 minit pou ou Mr Speaker.

Mersi bokou.

(APPLAUSE) MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Bon nou a termin deba la.

E mon a envit Minis pou fer son repons e konklizyon.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker mon ti a kontan premyerman remersi bann Manm lo kote LDS ki'n donn sipor sa Bill.

E spesifikman Leader Government Business ki mon krwar ou'n fer en louvraz enkrwayab lo eksplik merit sa Bill.

Ou'n fer sa pli byen kekfwa ki mwan mon ti pou’n kapab fer, so mersi.
zis Me avan mon kontinyen Mr Speaker mon ti a kontan zis klarifye en keksoz.

Ozordi Bill ki mon'n anmenn pou prezante i apel Public Enterprise Bill 2023.

I pa apel Bill Mefyans parey mon tann bokou koze lo la.

So mon krwar i enportan mon fer 69 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 sa klarifikasyon akoz i paret mwan i annan ki en pe konfize lo ki Bill mon'n anmennen ozordi.

Mr Speaker, mon pou premyerman pas en pe an gro lo bann keksoz ki'n ganny dir par bann Manm.
Me avan mon komanse mon i enportan ki mon etablir sa concept gouvernans dan bann antrepriz piblik.

Sa bann antrepriz piblik i ganny owned by Gouvernman.

krwar prive So Gouvernman is the shareholder ladan, ok?

I zis parey si mon annan en lakonpannyen e lakonpannyen prive i ganny owned by son shareholder e shareholder li i apwent en enplimant- Board formulate bann stratezi ki dan benefis shareholder, ok?

pou E Board of Directors li i annan sa manda pou ensure ki sa i arive.
So the Board of Directors works on behalf of shareholder.

Sa nou bezwen konpran kler.

E parey mon'n mansyonnen shareholder se Gouvernman.

E Polisi ki afekte bann i responsabilite Prezidan e son Cabinet of Ministers.

lantrepriz piblik, E sa responsabilite i ganny delegate avek bann Minis ki sa bann antrepriz i tonm anba zot pou asire ki i ganny Polisi Shareholder enplimante.
So ler nou koz lo laspe lotonomi, lo diferan nou lenterferans Minis, bezwen konpran poudir Minis i annan en responsabilite as shareholder.

prive I zis parey dan en lakonpannyen kot shareholder through the AGM zot ki apwent the Board of Directors pou defann zot lentere e zot annan power pou dismiss the Board of Directors ki pa pe al dan direksyon lentere shareholder.
E sa i ganny replicate dan gouvernans lantrepriz piblik e sa i akoz ki Minis in ganny delegated sa to President and Cabinet of reprezant pou Ministers lentere shareholder.

power So mon krwar i bon ki mon fer sa kler pou nou konpran konteks sa Lalwa.

E Public Enterprise Monitoring Commission kot i vini.

Se li at en lot layer gouvernans par lao Board ok, Board i annan sa responsabilite pou enplimant stratezi formulate stratezi e i enplimante.
Me PEMC i la pou li asire ki sa pe ganny fer, ki management pe delivre ki Board pe delivre e li i raport li al kot avek Minis pou lobzektif Cabinet pou dir ganny pe shareholders achieve.

So sa i lozik sa flow gouvernans ki ankadre dan sa Lalwa.

Mr Speaker i annan bokou ki'n ganny dir lo kote 70 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Lopozisyon, bokou pa'n lo sa Lalwa li menm - mon'n ekoute mon sey regarde ki clause zot pe koz lo la.
Me mon pa'n vreman war ki clause akoz se bann koze ki ti an deor sa Lalwa.

ava Mon adres premyerman bann issues leve, ki mon spesifik ki'n kapab war ki mannyer i relye ek Lalwa.

E apre kekfwa mon ava zis mansyonn en pe lo bann komanter zeneral.

Premyerman Onorab Gill ki'n demann en klarifikasyon lo kote FSA.

Wi capacity building FSA i en keksoz ki ongoing.


Annefe mon annan en meeting avek Board FSA ek Senior Management pou diskit egzakteman sa ki mannyer nou bouz devan, i annan plizyer Lorganizasyon Enternasyonal ki pare pou ed nou kontinyen build capacity FSA.

Ou kestyon lo kote bann non-profit organization ki bann SOE.
Wi, i annan bann SOE ki annan plis en manda sosyal i pa la pou maksimiz profi, so toultan nou bezwen regard li avek en loptik diferan e i pa anpes nou regarde ki pe mars terms of son optimally loperasyon.

Me nou konpran poudir i pa la pou li fer profi.

So sa i toultan dan bann analiz i ganny pran en konteks.

in Lo ou'n mansyonnen lo sa asset-based kote e si nou pe ganny sa return lo sa asset.

An se moman ler mon'n gete i apepre zis anba 2poursan i pa tro move.
Me i annan en gran divers kalite loperasyon bann SOEs.

So i annan ki zot return of asset i pli o i annan ki pli ba e sa i balanse.

Me nou pou bezwen asire ki given manda sa bann antite, son spesifik manda etablir sa ki nou apel bann KPIs ki sa bann return on asset ki nou bezwen gannyen lo la?

E sa i louvraz ki PEMC li menm li i pou oversee e gete si zot pe kot sa bann benchmark.

Lo kote dividend ti annan en klarifikasyon lo dividends.
Dividends se shareholder ki annan en lentere lo dividend akoz li ki ganny sa dividend, e ler ou regard the Dividend Policy lo Cabinet ti aprouve en pe plis ki 1an pase ki fondamantalman i dir ou ki i konversasyon annan between the shareholder PEMC ek etablir lekspektasyon lo dividend.

Board pou en Ok, so i en konversasyon i en konsiltasyon ant sa 3.

Ok. Pou mwan adres komanter ki Onorab Loze in pase, annefe Onorab Loze in koz bokou, me i pa'n dir bokou.
Me i napa en clause spesifik ki in mansyonnen ki i annan konsern lo la, annefe in mansyonnen mon krwar in dir sa i en bon Lalwa.

Me in fer 71 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 serten akizisyon anver mwan ki kekfwa mon ava repons Mr Speaker.

Onorab Loze i dir ki mon get passionate, emotional, mon fer bann statement.
Mon pa tro konnen si i pe refer a mwan ouswa son lekor, akoz dernyen fwa ler mon'n get Lasanble i ti pe defann en dimoun ki'n ganny arete ki pa'n ganny sarze, me selman apre mon in war poudir sa dimoun ganny sarze.

So mon pa tro konpran ki i ti pe sey dir Onorab Loze.

parey Mon mazinen kekfwa i en pe konfize, me in dir bokou dan keksoz lenvestigasyon SEYPEC.

Annefe i annan en rapor lo lenvestigasyon SEYPEC ki available ki met bann fe lo ki'n arive e bann Lalwa ki'n ganny kase.
Mon pa konnen si i annan akse sa rapor, akoz dan lepase bokou rapor i napa akse avek li i pa konnen ki bor i ete parey rapor IMF, kontrer i IMF annan dezyenm rapor mon ava anvoy en kopi pou li akoz toultan i ganny problenm pou li ganny akse.

E en rapor SEYPEC tou kot ki klerman etablir louvraz ki PMC in fer ki etablir bann Lalwa ki'n ganny kase.

Mon ankouraz Chair FPAC pou lir sa rapor ki bann teknisyen ki'n prepare by the way.
lo ki pas E en lot komanter ki Onorab Loze in pas lo la se, mon pa tro konnen kote sa enn i vini lo zafer Lopozisyon fay, mon pa'n annan okenn clause dan Lalwa ler mon en regarde Lopozisyon fay.

Me mon pa konnen si i annan keksoz ki fatig Lopozisyon ki zot pe koz bokou lo Lopozisyon fay.

Me mwan dan sa Lalwa mon prezante Mr Speaker i pa adres sa issue Lopozisyon fay.

Mr Speaker komanter pou Onorab sorti kot Onorab Herminie, son konsern se ki bokou mefyans.
Ankor parey mon'n dir mon pa tro war dan sa lo lalwa bann clause mefyans ni sa Lalwa li menm.

Me selman ki mon kapab dir ou konnen ler ou ekout e mon war en pattern ki pe ganny lo mefyans loz etablir Gouvernman, bezwen ou mefyans bann Minis.

lo E i remind mwan ou konnen en dimoun ki i en voler in toultan vole, e ozordi ler in retire ou a dir i krwar tou dimoun pe vol li.

Mon pa konnen sa i persepsyon ki mon gannyen, ler nou pe koz lo mefyans.

Me sa Lalwa i kler napa naryen pou kasyet dan sa Lalwa.
Mon pa tro konnen ki mefyans In mansyonn definisyon national interest - mon mazinen Leader Biznes- Government Business annan.

i 72 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 in pas lo la ki sa i pa en keksoz ki nou ki'n envante.

E Onorab Cosgrow ou'n mansyonn seksyon 42 ki donn pouvwar Minis pou sispann en lenvestigasyon, me seksyon 42(1) i link avek seksyon 35(1) li.

So Minis pa kapab anpes en lenvestigasyon ki'n Komisyon in konmanse li menm.
i kapab initiate Me i annan en provizyon dan 35(1) ki dir Minis li menm en li lenvestigasyon.

So as sa dimoun sa lenvestigasyon, seksyon 42(1) i donn Minis sa pouvwar pou sispann sa lenvestigasyon ki li me pa en lenvestigasyon ki Commission li in komanse.

initiate ki'n Lo kote konsiltasyon ek i annan 2 staz SOE, wi konsiltasyon ki'n ganny fer.

Komisyon in ganny response from 4 SOE selman lo la avek bann komanter.
Lo kote ou konsern lo kontrol of central government mon krwar mon'n eksplik rasyonnel akoz Minis i bezwen annan en kontrol, ok?

Lo komanter regarding dezapwentman ki ou annan, sa enn mon pa tro kapab ed ou i pou riske annan plis dezapwentman pou ou in the next few years Onorab.

So get use to it.

lo seksyon Komanter lo sa valer 90(4) ki koz 1milyon, ok. E rasyonnal pou sa, ok. Mon krwar nou bezwen ganny en balans lo en valer ki anmenn en, ki pa tro o me pa tro ba.
Akoz nou pa oule tou disposal of asset ki en antite pe fer i bezwen vin kot Minis, i vin zis en birokrasi.

Oule valer ki annan en serten signifikans ki vini pou approval.

E mon mazinen sa sonm R1milyon i lye avek sa clause ki dan seksyon 17(1) Public Financial Management Act ki dir okenn public body ki dispose of an asset of more than R1million i bezwen permisyon Minis Finans.

E annefe kekfwa Onorab Loze i a kontan pou tann sa, this is the clause ki ti apply dan case SEYPEC.
Me si ou lir sa rapor SEYPEC ou pou war poudir sa clause ti ganny breached.

Lo kote Onorab Vidot konsern ki in leve li apard ki in dir i an prensip i war sa en bon Lalwa, se ki nou annan en azanda visye - mon pa tro war, kekfwa i ti kapab klarifye pou mwan pli tar ki sa clause ki annan en azanda visye lo la akoz mon pa pe war.

Pli tar kekfwa i ava klarifye sa pou mwan, ok, napa problenm.
Lo kote Onorab Uranie ou'n mansyonn spesifikman ti'n Linyon Estate e ou demann pou klersi serten keksoz lo Linyon Estate.

E sel keksoz ki mon pou kapab klersi lo Linyon Estate se ki Linyon Estate pa pe fer 73 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 loss, Linyon Estate napa koripsyon ki pe arive dan Linyon Estate, so sa bann keksoz mon kapab klarifye pou ou lo Linyon Estate.

Lo Lalwa li menm mon pa tro krwar gran demann bokou kestyon.
E finalman Mr Speaker, mon a pran bann komanter sorti kot Leader Lopozisyon.

Mon apresye ki finalman aporte ki in koz lo bokou keksoz apard Lalwa in focus lo Lalwa.

E kestyon ki in demande 1) lo akoz ki Pension Fund pa tonm anba sa Lalwa.

Pension Fund i dan schedule tou i tonm anba en Minis Onorab - tou bann Antite ok?

Me parey ou konnen i annan nouvo Lalwa Pension Fund ki pe ganny travay lo la ki fer provizyon pou plis ki en Pension Fund.
E sa responsabilite pou ganny pase avek FSA akoz son manda i pli parey pou li regulate Pension Fund, ok?

Lo kote labank Onorab kekfwa zis mon a go back in time pou mwan eksplik ou sa.

Annefe an practice i annan plizyer lannen ki PMC- pratik napa sa responsabilite pour regulate bann labank.

Sa ti ou menm Gouvernman kot ler mwan mon ti ankor Labank Santral.

Nou ti sign en MOU avek PEMC pou nou fer, pou Labank Santral sa letan kot letan dan mon ti travay, pou fer sa louvraz on behalf of PEMC.
Me pou raport bann findings, bann konsern share bann lenformasyon avek PEMC.

E rezon i tre kler.

louvraz PEMC Nou bezwen travay dan fason efektiv nou pa en duplicate i annan plizyer defi lo staffing, lo lekspertiz e a sa letan kot ou parti dan Gouvernman, nou ti agree Central Bank, Minister Finans, PEMC ki sa responsabilite pou pas avek Labank Santral.

ankor ti Sa Lalwa i pe formaliz sa relasyon ki deza egziste.
Mon konnen kekfwa ou annan en diferan pwennvi, me sa i rasyonal akoz sa mekanizm ti ganny setup.

sa zis rasyonnal Lo kote pouvwar Minis, sa mon krwar mon'n eksplike lo avek gouvernans.

Avek sa Mr Speaker avan mon terminen zis pou mon dir ki pou dan mon summary; se enn bann premye keksoz mon ti dir ler mon ti ganny apwente Minis mon ti vin dan Lasanble se ki mon pa satisfe avek gouvernans bokou SOEs.

E mon'n met en kantite zefor pou adres sa issue.


Si ou pou demann mwan si mon 100poursan satisfe ozordi non, me mon kapab dir ki mon'n war en improvement.

Me nou bezwen kontinyen sa travay.

E sa Lalwa pou donn 74 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 nou plis zouti pou nou kapab delivre e asire ki bann SOE pe meet zot manda, e i pa pe poz pou en Gouvernman.

fiskal risk Nou pa oule ankor en Air Seychelles arive.

Sa pei pa kapab handle en issue Air Seychelles ankor.
I pou napa sa abilite finansyer pou li fer li.

E sa akoz ozordi nou pe met en kantite focus lo la.

poudir mon Ou konnen even bann issue SEYPEC tankers, mon'n mansyonnen enn fwa devan ti'n lapres demann nouvo Board SEYPEC ek Management ou regarde performans bann tankers e sa i en keksoz ki mon pou fer SEYPEC vin koz lo la.

Akoz bann tankers in perdi en kantite larzan.


La mon dir en statement apre i annan ki pour- e sa pa pou sa lannen me over the lifetime of the tanker business, (non, non Onorab mon pou fer SEYPEC vin eksplike ek Lasanble lo kantite larzan ki'n ganny perdi.)

So nou pa kapab annan ankor 2020!

Nou pa kapab annan ankor Air Seychelles!

Nou pa kapab annan sa bann mess ankor dan sa pei.

E anba sa ladministrasyon nou pou fer sir ki nou bann state- owned enterprise pa vin en risk pou pei.
Avek sa Mr Speaker mon ti a kontan demann Lasanble pou siport sa Bill akoz sa i anmenn en keksoz bon pou pei.

Mersi.

(APPLAUSE) MR SPEAKER Mersi Minis.

Mon ava envit Manm pou vot lo Bill general merit dan Second Reading.

lev Manm ki an faver aprouv sa Bill lanmen.

Mersi Manm ki kont?

Lo general merit of Public Enterprises Bill, 2023 16 Manm in vot pour, 0 kont e 8 in abstain.

Bill in aprouve, pou Second Reading.

Madanm Clerk a fer Second Reading.

to for MADAM CLERK Mersi Mr Speaker.


A Bill for an Act the provide the Public continuation of Monitoring Enterprise Commission, to strengthen the governance framework for the oversight and monitoring of public enterprises, to repeal the Public Enterprise Monitoring Commission Act, 2013 and to provide for other incidental or connected matters.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Mersi madanm Clerk.

Bon nou'n ariv ler pou nou pran bann amendment, i en latas ase konsekan.

Donk nou a pran en break.


Me selman permet mwan pou akoursi zot 75 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 break en pti gin, nou a retourn 4er 15.

Mersi.

(BREAK) MR SPEAKER Bon.

Bonn apre midi ankor tou dimoun.

Nou a pas dan pou Stage Committee amannman.

Serzan?

Bills Committee Vice- Chair pou pran laparol pou amannman?

HON JOHN HOAREAU Yes.

Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair avan ki nou konmans lo lamannman mon ti ava kontan fer resorti ki sa Bill parey in ganny dir, in vin kot nou en pe letan pase e nou’n fer 3 sesyon travay lo la.

Bill retourn kot Minister pou re-Gazette e dan son laform ki in ganny re- Gazette nou osi nou’n war serten mistakes ladan ki nou pou fer resorti ozordi.
in Me avan nou komanse pou al lo sa bann diferan pwen ki nou'n fer lamannman, mon ti a kontan dir ki, pou lentere letan bann ki annan comments o bor ki'n mete ‘’agree’, vedir nou'n agree avek panel lo sa bann pwen, nou pa pou pas lo la.

Tandis ki nou pou pas lo bann ki, sirtou i annan bann issues ki nou bezwen diskite.
Ok. Nou ava al lo premye pwen anba paz anba, lo 8 pou “interpretations” i annan sa definisyon “public corporation” ki LGB ti'n flag ki dan clause 44 i dir ki Minis i kapab deklar en lenterpret konman en statutory corporation.

So nou pe inquire akoz sa bout dan dezyenm laliny after the word “law” kot i dir “other than Companies Act”.

So si Minis ti kapab klarifye avek panel akoz ki “other than Companies Act”.

MR SPEAKER Byen.

Minis, panel nou pa pas zot laparol.

Yes Minister.
Yes Minister.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Thank you Mr Chair.

Rezon ki mon oule donnen se ki sa definisyon i align avek son public corporation in the Public Financial Management Act.

So nou'n deside pou swiv menm definisyon ki nou annan dan sa lalwa pou nou pa al an dekalaz between the two laws.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Georges ou annan komanter?

HON BERNARD GEORGES Wi Mr Speaker.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mersi Minis pou ou leksplikasyon.


Mannyer mon vwar Mr Speaker e subject to correction, mon vwar public corporation public enterprise zis anba li koumsa i ek 76 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 “A public annan en konfli.

Si nou komans avek public enterprise.

enterprise means any public corporation law establishes under any under the Companies Act”.

Ok.

Son sel keksoz ki define en ki enterprise se public Gouvernman i annan en controlling interest.

Perfect, full dakor avek sa.


So tou bann antite kot en gouvernman controlling interest i en public enterprise including en public corporation.

i annan So at a public corporation any corporation establishes under any written law other than the Companies Act in other words it has to be a statutory body.
the And sel fason ki ou kapab etablir en korperasyon unless ou fer ki anba the Companies ACT or I suppose under international business, konmela akoz ou kapab travay, but let’s forget the IBC for the time being.

Sel fer en fason ou kapab corporation than a other written law se, sorry other than the Companies Act se anba en Lalwa and it becomes a statutory corporation.

a public enterprise.

Eski se sa ki nou anvi?


corporation Or eski nou anvi ki en is any public corporation established under a written law or the Companies Act?

So as long as the capital is only a partial only by the government.

Ou war se sa kestyon ki mwan mon annan lo sa other than the Companies Act.

It may be aligned with the Public Finance Management Act but is that ACT itself correct?

If that’s the case.
If that’s the case.

Me i en kestyon, mon napa okenn gran problenm avek but it's just that I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Panel i annan en lopinyon lo la?

Antretan letan panel i konsidere les nou a Leader pran Lopozisyon, kekfwa i a kapab deal avek an menm tan.

komanter HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker e mersi Minis pou ou Right of Reply.

Mon bokou lantouzyazm Mr Speaker ki ou pa'n dir Minis naryen ler in get nou kote latab.
avek note So en public corporation ki ganny etablir par en Lalwa parey IDC par egzanp, ki'n ganny setup anba Companies Act.

Si nou garde sa definisyon it's not a public corporation, it’s MR SPEAKER Onorab nou'n ariv lo Staz Komite silvouple.

We’re on the point.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY 77 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 i dir nou'n Selman parey ganny peye koman MNA e nou bezwen fer sir nou fer nou louvraz.

Definisyon ki devan nou avek lot definisyon ki vin apre.
Tou lede i koz established under any written law.

Anler i koz established by or under any written law.

Pou mwan dan mon lopinyon enn i redundant akoz sa enn dezyenm in pran tou.

Why do we need a public corporation?

Akoz as soon ki i ganny established anba sa law, it is a public enterprise.

E presan i ou'n dir ki son capital provided wholly or partly provided by government ki deza annan ba legzanp bann public enterprise ki capital i ganny provided wholly or partly by government?
Par egzanp PMC, Property Management Corporation, son capital i ganny provide solely by government, either by Bidze or by son retainer - by son recurrent ki anmase lo bann rent ki - bann lakaz ki bann dimoun pe peye.

So eski nou kapab ganny en konpran why we need this definition now?

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis ou'n pare pou adrese?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi.

Mr Chair.


Ler mon pe get sa 2 definisyon, so esansyelman public corporation e public enterprise the distinction that you want to make se ki, i annan en group ki'n granny formen anba en written law e public enterprise li i broad, i include sa group ki ganny formen anba en specific law but also those that are done under the Companies Act.
So that’s the essence of the differentiation between the two, public because corporation i dir ou any written law other than the Companies Act.

Public enterprise i capture tou li, ok?

So the question then that comes se, why is there a need to differentiate between those that is setup under a law and those that is inclusive of anba bann Companies Act.
formen ki landrwa kot And if we go, si nou al pli ba dan bann diferan clause, i pou annan i annan bann clause kot ki pou spesifik zis pou en group, me pa pou tou.

So I think this is where we need to make this differentiation.

Selman mon krwar the issue is Onorab Georges mon pa'n tro capture byen your concerns in terms of- ?

HON BERNARD GEORGES 78 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Mersi Mr Chair.

Mon pe esper ou donn mwan laparol Mr Chair.

MR SPEAKER Wi si deklarasyon Minis.


nou'n aksepte HON BERNARD GEORGES Wi, wi.

Non, mon konpran Mr Chair.

We are legislators e si nou, nou anvi define in a chair as a table, the chair becomes a table.
corporation, So the problem is malgre ki mon konpran drift Minis - in the normal parlance a public corporation is going to be a it’s a corporation whether statutory or whether it’s established under in the the Companies Act, normal parlance i pou en public corporation, akoz so long as its capital is wholly or partially by government by way of grant loan or other form.

provided Sa ki nou pe fer la nou pe define public corporation in a more restrictive manner, just for the purposes of this Act.

Konpran?
Konpran?

So the intention, then that’s fine let’s go along with it.

Mersi.

that’s if MR SPEAKER Onorab Pillay.

Wi.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Dan sa Lalwa 80 paz i annan zis 2 referans avek sa mo “public corporation”, dan sa definition section, 1) i koz lo sa “definition public corporation” e lot i koz lo sa “public enterprise”.

definisyon Napa rezon pou annan en definisyon pou public corporation akoz ou definisyon i deza “public enterprise” capture “public corporation”.
en Ler ou lir son definisyon i dir ou “means any public corporation born or the body which is established under any written then Companies Act”.

including law So i kapab pa'n ganny fer par Company’s Act and i pou still en “public corporation”.

Legzanp Seychelles National Parks and Gardens Authority i ganny fer anba en statutory instrument.

SFA i ganny fer anba en statutory instrument, ou konpran?

So the point is why do we there is something that definition there need unless toward?
Rezon mon pe demann sa kestyon Mr Speaker, akoz i annan en keksoz ki Minis pa'n reponn dan son summing up.

Dan mesaz ki mwan mon'n gannyen i se ki sa Lalwa i pertinan pou IMF.

Mon'n ganny en mesaz ki dir mwan sa Lalwa i pertinan pou IMF, dir nou petet akoz sa Lalwa i pertinan pou IMF pou 79 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 mwan sey konpran whether i en keksoz ki pe ganny demande an deor externally pour ki nou, nou bezwen comply?
Oubyen i en keksoz ki Minster Finans i santi ki i bezwen include, pou li kapab armoniz e fer sir ki i annan en template pou li definir tou sa bann antite.

E sa pa’n ganny fer Mr Speaker.

So avek tou respe ki mon annan pou Minis malgre in pas en bon pe letan pou li donn nou lektir, apel nou voler en kantite keksoz in dir me at least fer nou konpran akoz sa Lalwa i enportan pou IMF?
La ou loportinite dir nou then prezan nou a and konpran akoz nou bezwen annan ki basically say the same thing, me ki apre enn nou a fer referans avek ditou dan sa Lalwa.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

definisyon 2 MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Onorab Loze ou ti'n lev lanmen lo menm pwen?

HON JOHAN LOZE Yes Mr Speaker.

Sa morso “other than the Company’s Act” la, Minis taler in anvoy mwan lo son rapor PEMC lo SEYPEC.
Be son main finding ki PEMC dan sa rapor ti fer, anba main findings limero 1. the sale of Seychelles Pride has been undertaken in isolation of relevant laws and legislation except for the Company’s Act.

So we are back to the point earlier.

Nou pe fer keksoz to bring back in line bann desizyon man-child ki nou ti'n fer vizavi lavant Seychelles Pride.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Minis adrese silvouple.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair ankor mon repete lo kote komanter Onorab Loze, sa napa naryen pou fer, mon krwar dernyen fwa mon adres sa issue.

Zis pou eksplik en pe kekfwa dan mon larepons monn mank sa bout ki Onorab Leader in mansyonnen lo si sa en requirement IMF.

Non Onorab ou sours pa korek, i pa en requirement IMF.
Lopozisyon Nou annan en progranm ek World Bank ok, ki apel en DPO e ladan World Bank i vini i gete be ki bann reform ki nou Gouvernman nou pe fer, e baze lo la, nou agree en list of reform ki nou pe fer.

E enn bann reform ki Gouvernman pe fer, se lo bann public enterprise.

E nou agree ek zot pou dir pou ganny budget support anba sa DPO program, the enactment Public of Enterprise Bill i en benchmark the 80 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 pou nou ganny budget support disbursement.
So this is what it is napa naryen pou fer ek IMF, i annan pou fer ek progranm ki nou, nou agree ek World Bank anba zot DPA program.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Georges wi.

Ou’n pare wi, sorry ou pa'n tann mwan, HON BERNARD GEORGES Sorry Mr Chair mon pa ti'n konpran, ki ou ti'n mansyonn mwan.

Wi Mr Chair mon krwar mon pe konpran.

Annefe mon pa krwar ki tou lede i parey.


E mon pa krwar ki nou devret kill the definition of public corporation, i annan sa bout ki akoz enportan which is the last clause, with a capital wholly or the partially provided by government by way of grant, loan or other form.

Se sa ki fer en public corporation.

Mon problenm mwan se ki mon krwar parey Mr in dir dan son Bandara comments that this definition as it is written is a definition of the statutory corporation and not of a public corporation.
Alor se sa.

This is a perfect definition of a statutory corporation, but not necessarily of a public corporation.

Alors “public swa corporation” nou fer li vin sanz nou “statutory corporation” e nou sanz plas.

Or mwan mon ti ava propoze si nou gard li la se ki nou tir sa fraz “or under any written law other than the Company’s Act”.

So that is it.

“Corporation established with capital wholly or partially” eksetera.

Mersi.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker premyerman dan lentere full disclosure pou piblik mon sours i Speaker li menm ki mesaz ki mwan mon ti gannyen se ki; because “MOF asks for urgent consideration he needs it by May 31st to fulfil an IMF requirement”.

Ok?

So mon pe to lenformasyon ki mwan mon annan.


according go Now mon konnen ki i ti deza annan diskisyon avek World Bank regarding nou bann SOEs e mon'n zwenn- mon ti deza zwenn avek sa bann dimoun avek Mr Tirant sa letan, kot zot ti pe koz lo sa Public revamping of Monitoring Enterprise Commission Act.

Sa mon konpran.

the So i enportan ki piblik i realize pou dir parey Onorab Loizeau ti war ki ler mon koze i en keksoz ki mon koze i laverite.
81 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Dezyenmman Mr Speaker, sa ki Onorab Georges in dir i korek.

Akoz we are the statutory talking about corporation, but is a statutory corporation public corporation?

the question ki nou bezwen reponn.


a That’s bann E pour mwan sa mon war poudir ler nou extend sa definisyon parey i ete, nou pa pe neseserman koz lo zis en “statutory corporation” se sa ki kre en problenm pou mwan, e ki fer sir poudir ki fer prezan, dan en fason definisyon nou riske an en problenm.

Akoz i desizyon annan enportan ki sa bann keksoz, sa bann antite i bezwen pran.
Zis pou eksplik mon pwen Mr Speaker, si par egzanp PUC son Board let’s say en korperasyon - son Board i deside poudir be mon pou donn en bonus.

E Cabinet osi i dir baze lo Polisi i pa an faver bonus, anba sa Lalwa mon pou vin lo la taler Minis i annan direktiv ki i kapab donnen regarding sa.

Akoz i pou en Polisi ki Gouvernman in pran - ou war?

E se sa problenm e sa definisyon sa bann travayer i kapab challenge lotorite Minis pou li kapab fer desizyon baze lo definisyon ki relye ek Lalwa.
E se sa ki nou bezwen fer sir nou met o kler.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair mon krwar sa konfizyon kekfwa i Onorab Georges, yes you are right, kekfwa nou pa devret define “public corporation” me “statutory corporation”.

li as the E i enportan pou kit li akoz si ou get seksyon 44 ki declaration and a public enterprise 44(1) ki dir “The Minister may order published the Gazette declare a statutory corporation to be a public enterprise”.
by in So the solution to this se “public from it change corporation” “statutory to corporation”.

Mon krwar sa i rezourd sa problenm.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Nou a kontinyen Onorab Hoareau.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi.

Nou ava kontinyen.

Public enterprise i annan en pti mistake la ki'n ganny agree lo la.

Mon al lo subsidiary.

Mon ava les Onorab Georges eksplik son pwen la.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Georges ou annan laparol la.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair i en tre senp pwen, mon pe regarde 82 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 akoz nou annan sa mo “outstanding”.

Mr Bandara in ofer en lesplikasyon but in my is a mind a subsidiary company in which 50 percent or more of the voting shares are owned by another company.

Mon pa war akoz nou annan sa mo ‘’outstanding’’.


Pou mwan the outstanding sends the wrong message sa se ki outstanding voting shares se bann shares kekfwa ki pa ankor ganny issued - oubyen being issued me i pa ankor ganny allotted eksetera and that I don’t this is the intention.

E mwan ti pe demande why don’t we just kill the word ‘’outstanding’’?

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Thank you Mr Chair.

Thank you Onorab.
Thank you Onorab.

Mon agree avek Onorab Georges mon krwar ou kapab tir “outstanding” la, akoz i donn en lendikasyon ki i bann unsubscribed shares ki pa ankor ganny allotted.

Thanks.

MR SPEAKER Thank you, settled.

Onorab Hoareau.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Prezan mou pou al lo clause 4 lo paz 9 ankor.

Lo paz 9 mon mazinen ki sa chapeau si oule sa premye fraz la i devret aret kot ownership.

“This Act applies to all public enterprises in which the government has majority ownership”.
Olye met sa bout ti a “of kontan Minis en i deklarasyon lo la.

investment” mon fer MR SPEAKER Minis wi.

E eski sa i neseser?

Les Onorab Pillay met son pwen apre Minis kapab fer e sel ladres.

Anr so i en lot pwen les li.

Minis.

Ale go ahead, go ahead Onorab Pillay.


HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker si nou get sa definisyon ki la, i dir kot nou annan dan clause 4 sa ki enteresan i koz lo “majority ownership of investment” be ler mon retourn anler dan definisyon e public enterprise i pa koz lo “majority ownership”.

E si nou retourn kot en “statutory corporation” ki osi en “public enterprise i koz lo “wholly or partly”.

E there is no mention of majority ownership.


So the point I’m making for instance Mr Speaker, eski nou annan par egzanp si nou annan en korperasyon par egzanp IOT par egzanp, nou napa en majority ownership dan IOT.

Be nou annan en substantial shareholding dan IOT.

83 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 It wouldn’t apply but in which case the definition anler i pa fer kler poudir nou pe koz enterprises, kot lo bann Gouvernman pou annan full kontrol.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Minister.


HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Controlling shares ladan Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Ale.

Minister.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Chair.

you Mr Thank Definisyon “public enterprise” i dir; or any “means public Corporation, board or other body which was is established under any written law including the Company’s Act where the Government has the controlling interest”.

So the controlling interest would be 50percent or more.
kestyon spesifik Onorab Hoareau si nou kapab tir investment sa nou napa lobzeksyon I think i pa add anything to the clause.

Mersi.

Lo MR SPEAKER Sorry Minis ki ou-?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Wi Mr Chair lo seksyon 4, clause 4.

Ki dir “this Act ownership applies to all public enterprise in which the government has majority of investment”, nou ok pou nou delete ‘’of investment’’ ki a vin ‘’in which the government has majority ownership.

‘’ MR SPEAKER Ok, so Onorab Uranie ti'n lev lanmen.
HON ROCKY URANIE Wi Mr Speaker.

Annefe sa pwen ki LOTO in fer mon ti pe vin lo lanmenm, akoz ler mon pe gete mon'n war sa mo ‘’majority’’ e anler ti annan zafer ‘’wholly’’ ek ‘’partly’’.

Prezan mon pe demande parey ki bann nenport lantrepriz ki Gouvernman si i fer krwar en lakonpannyen li i annan 52poursan Gouvernman li i annan 48 poursan, eski ou pe dir mwan poudir la savedir Gouvernman i pa pou vreman Minister pa pou vreman annan kontrol lo sa bout poursantaz ki nou annan dan sa bann lantrepriz?
MR SPEAKER Wi mon sipoze Minis in fini.

Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Wi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab pou sa kestyon.

Annou servi en legzanp pratik, annou pran IOT kot nou annan 60/40 ownership;- 84 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 “The requirements of this Act will not apply to IOT e it should not apply, the intention and it will not apply and this is what it’s reflected in the Act”.

Mersi.

it’s MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Onorab Pillay, wi?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker ok, so mon konpran the intention that it will not apply.

But the question ki mwan mon ti pe klarifye, nou'n toultan annan en problenm avek nou shareholding dan IOT e sak fwa nou annan en issue lapey, konpansasyon bann regilasyon employment, i vin en problenm akoz IOT i sipoze operate anba SITZ, right?

sityasyon sa Now, ou pe dir ek mwan poudir sa gro 40poursan ki nou annan dan IOT pa pe apply la, so where would it apply?
Lekel ki pou get li, lekel ki pou annan oversight lo li?

Akoz mon ti ava ekspekte poudir ler nou pe koz en Public Enterprise Monitoring Commission, mon konnen nou pe koz “public enterprise” only solely where nou pe koz the word “public” and “enterprise” as to own by government.

it relating E mon ti ava ekspekte osi to is a relates there whilst shareholding, it structure that is put in place pou manage bann shareholding.
sa dan Akoz nou bezwen asire ki i fer sans pou nou maintain sa shareholding sa konpannyen.

Par egzanp SPF i annan shareholding dan Cable & Wireless.

Somebody has to be able to monitor whether these shares are paying the dividend ki i pe peye.

So se sa ki mon konsern mon ti ekspekte ki sa Lalwa i kapab capture sa Mr Speaker, me la mon pe war i pa pe kapab e nou bezwen ganny en konpran si nou devret fer li vin la, oubyen nou pa kapab fer li vin la.

I bezwen annan en landrwa ki ganny captured.


Sa i mon kestyon.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.

Onorab pratikman i pa pou posib.

Akoz ou konnen ki i pou parey en lot shareholder i annan controlling interest li, prezan mon pe pas en Lalwa ou pe dir ek li, me nou Gouvernman nou ki pou kontrol ou.
An pratik i pa pou kapab marse, ou pa pou annan any entity ki pou pare pou al ek en Gouvernman partnership, where is a minority government dan 85 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 shareholder si ou pe dir ek li even have controlling interest.

though you - sa bann As a shareholder but you subject to a law that gives the government so much power over you.

I pa pou, i pou zis pa marse, so that’s why I said i pa lentansyon sa Lalwa pou kalite kouver shareholding.
Me nou lentere i devret ganny i ganny reprezante par bann manm ki nou apwent on the Board, ok?

E mekanizm ki nou annan ozordi se sa bann Board members i raport ek Minister Finans e nou, nou monitor as Minister Finans because of government agency Minister Finans is the one ki li i monitor performans kot nou, nou annan minority shareholding.

Mersi.

terms in MR SPEAKER Mersi.

So dapre sa ki mon konpran nou'n settle clause 4 la - nou pe al, wi Onorab Cosgrow?

HON WALLACE COSGROW Mersi Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker mon pa konnen si zot in fini settled lo sa pwen LOTO, me selman mwan mon annan en lot pwen lo clause 4 ki mon ti a kontan met devan e annefe clause 4 i lir koumsa; “This Act applies to all public enterprises in which the government ownership” “investment,” en ?
has majority tir nou'n Me selman si nou pran legzanp labank, Nouvobanq ozordi Gouvernman i annan majority ownership, me sa Lalwa ozordi i pa pe kouver Nouvobanq e si nou al Schedule 1 pli ba nou pou war i pa pe kouver Nouvobanq.

annan en i So sa dan la discrepancy definisyon la or sa lo ki laplikasyon of the Act, avek en parey lakonpannyen Nouvobanq ki Gouvernman i annan en controlling share or controlling ownership.

So ki mannyer nou proceed avek sa?


E kan mannyer nou deal avek Nouvobanq Lalwa i donn PEMC oversee pouvwar pou Me Nouvobanq.

administrativman zot in fer en lot zafer avek Nouvobanq so si Minis i kapab klarifye sa e mon hope mon pa dezapwente.

MR SPEAKER Byen, Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab pou sa pwen.


Ou konnen dan definisyon mon state poudir i bann entities ki anba Schedule 1, mon pa konnen kekfwa pou if there’s a need legalman to further clarify this senpleman;- 86 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 “this Act applies to all public enterprise in which the government has majority ownership as per Schedule 1”, something along those lines.

Solve the problem.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Pillay.


Sorry mon krwar i ankor lot pwen, i ankor lo son pwen, mon a pas kot ou apre Onorab Loze.

i HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker ekstrememan sa pwen enportan pou Lasanble ek sa Lalwa.

Akoz sa pwen ki pou definir tou sa levantay bann enterprises by Gouvernman, ki pou tonm anba sa Lalwa.

owned E la nou deza annan en diverzans lo lopinyon an sa ki konsern bann labank.

Sa ki Onorab Cosgrow in dir, i al dan laliny sa ki Minis in dir.
Akoz Minis in koz lo performans menm bann ki nou pa majority shareholding i ganny monitor par Minister Finans.

E nou, nou largiman i se ki sa Lalwa i set out monitoring of shareholding kot mon annan en majority stake dan en state-owned enterprise.

intent and purposes Nouvobanq i devret en public enterprise.

I pa kapab - malgre ki ou dir mwan mon Gouvernman ki ti siny sa MOU, mwan mon kapab for all E dezagree avek sa ki'n ganny fer.
that Akoz mon pa krwar poudir the best is approach, akoz mon pa santi e mon pa konfidan ki Labank Santral - mon pa pe koz lo son regulatory requirement e son statutory mandate - pou fer sa travay ou bezwen ganny fer e that creates an issue pou nou.

E mon kontan ou pe koz specifies under Schedule 1, eski ou pe dir nou la ki IMF li i pa oule ki Nouvobanq i tonm anba en anba sa Lalwa ki la, or nou PPO ki nou annan pa fer provizyon pour ki sa i tonm anba sa Lalwa ki la?
Mon ti ava espekte, akoz sa reveni ki sa antite i anmennen.

Mon konsernen Mr Speaker avek sa bout Mr Speaker.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis adrese silvouple.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab pou ou konsern.

Mon krwar i annan 2 kestyon, mon'n adres lo kote premye kestyon mon Onorab konfortab pou met li sa Schedule 1, lo dezyenm kestyon IMF i konfortab - IMF napa en view lo la.
Cosgrow Me lo sa issue of kouver labank e pa kouver labank, mon krwar nou pou bezwen 87 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 agree ki mon view ek ou view i diferan.

E I am not convinced by your view e kekfwa ou osi ou pa convince avek mon view.

Me mwan mon pou mentenir mon pozisyon lo sa enn ki mon pa war nesesite pou include labank lo la.

So sa i mon desizyon final Mr Chair.

Mersi.


MR SPEAKER Ou bezwen pas lo la akoz mwan mon santi poudir sa ki Onorab Pillay pe demande, se ki Minis i sanz scope sa Lalwa.

E sa i vin en lot soz.

Petet sa ki Minis i kapab fer e ki si i lot veikil pou bezwen en kouver labank, i ava bezwen rod en lot, me evidaman i pa'n sezi ki sa Lalwa i pou aplik pou labank.

Sorry mon annan 2 pwen.

Mon annan 2 dimoun ki'n lev lanmen - 3 in fact - silvouple nou bezwen move on.

Onorab Loze.
Onorab Loze.

HON JOHAN LOZE Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker 4 i komans avek “this Act applies”, Act nou ki fer si Act i dir i state konmkwa ki Lalwa i la i ava monitor, analiz performans shares dan en lakonpannyen parey IOT kot Gouvernman i annan minority shares e pou li raport back ek Gouvernman, Act in dir so the Act will apply.

I a permet PEMC annan en serten amount bann of monitoring lakonpannyen kot nou annan minority shares.
lo Mon konnen posibleman i pa en keksoz ki nou pa pou amande la ozordi, be selman si zot kapab konsidere in the future pour bring sa bann lakonpannyen kot nou annan minority holdings under the fold of PEMC not the company themselves.

of analysis Be selman the monitoring and the performance of the shares of the government.

Akoz Minis in dir nou sistenm ki nou pe servi an se moman se ki Board members reports back to the Ministry of Finance.

E i satisfe ek sa be ki ti arive ek tanker alors?


Ou Board member pa ti report back?

MR SPEAKER Ok. Mon krwar Minis in fini eksprim li lo la ki sa Lalwa i pa aplik pour minority shares, so let’s leave it there nou bezwen move on.

Onorab Uranie ti'n lev lanmen?

HON ROCKY URANIE Wi Mr Speaker.

Annefe ou form par SADC nou, e nou ti asiste en kozri SADC sirtou kot i annan pou fer avek nou bann assets akoz nou, nou open avek foreign investment pou vini.
So ler bann foreign investment pou vini usually 88 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 parfwa zot oule pran pli gro share, si Gouvernman pou al ladan, Gouvernman pran pli pti share.

Me pou en laspe sekirite pei pou nou kapab protez nou bann assets osi, mon krwar nou bezwen regar, fer sir ki sa bann Lalwa ki nou pe vin avek osi nou annan serten keksoz ki kapab dan en serten oversight bann lo lo sa bann lakonpannyen, lantrepriz bann ki lakonpannyen i vin kree an partenarya avek Gouvernman.
Sa i zis en pwen ki mon ti sa sa anvi fer sorti.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Me selman Minis in fini dir ki poudir i pa lentansyon dan Lalwa pou aplik dan sa ka, so please let’s move on.

lev Onorab Cosgrow lanmen avan apre Onorab Georges.

ti'n HON WALLACE COSGROW Yes Mr Speaker.

Mersi.

Mr Speaker sa zafer seksyon 4 i al pli lwen, en?

I al an relasyon avek seksyon 91 an sa ki konsern dividend.
Now, kan mannyer Gouvernman pou instruct, or pou ganny en konversasyon avek Nouvobanq or any other bank kot i annan en controlling share, lo size dividend si sa labank pa tonm anba purview sa Lalwa, e sa Lalwa i set out the mechanism pou deal avek dividend?

Me si sa labank or sa entity pa tonm anba purview sa Lalwa then pou mwan mon pa konnen ki mannyer anba ki legal basis ou pou al demann avek Nouvobanq en dividend ex amount tou le lannen si i pa kapab ganny cater for anba clause 4?
So i al bokou pli lwen ki nou pe diskite anler Mr Speaker.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Minis wi.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab pou ou kestyon.

Annefe mon kontan ou'n lev sa issue, akoz sa i listre parfetman akoz i pa devret dan sa Lalwa.

Dividend labank i ganny aprouve par Labank Santral ok.

So mon even if Minister Finans Gouvernman i dir ek oule Nouvobanq R300milyon sa lannen.
Pa kapab enforce because any in dividend of any banks Seychelles se Labank Santral i bezwen aprouve pou ou pey sa dividends, ok?

So ou kestyon i parey dan nenport ki lakonpannyen ki shareholders shares i ladan, shareholder i apwent son members of the Board.
repons pou annan In terms of setting the the expectations, dividend 89 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 shareholder i koz ek son bann Board members i dir, lala mon lekspektasyon e baze lo la, lo performans lo setting stratezi lobzektif KPIs of the bank en dividend expectation is set.

Me Gouvernman pa pou zanmen kapab al dir ek en labank ki dividend i oule.

Napa en pei dan lemonn kot en Gouvernman pou kapab kot i shareholder, pou dir ek en labank ki dividend mon oule.
E sa i listre parfetman akoz ou pa kapab annan sa pou apply pou labank, sa Lalwa.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi Minis.

Mon bezwen apel bann Manm pou nou pa al dan bann propozisyon ki an deor sa Lalwa, nou bezwen aksepte sa Lalwa mannyer i ete la.

Onorab Onorab Pillay.

Georges in?

Mon pa'n war ou'n lev ou lanmen ankor oule entervenir?

Yes.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mr Chair mon ti anvi move on avek clause 4 e mon pa anvi curtail deba, me mon ti anvi zis take up 2 things.
Premyerman pour benefis Senior Legal Officer ki pe track sa Bill.

Mon krwar sa ki nou'n dakor e Minis in dakor pou mete at the end “and specified in Schedule 1”, so government has a majority ownership “and specified in Schedule 1” pou fer sir ki sa 2 keksoz.

Me mon retourn avek ou permisyon lo sa 2 mo “of investment” ki nou'n tire.
Akoz vreman parey Minis in dir i pa azout naryen to majority ownership, unless sa “of” ti en typo and it meant “or”, ki en “the typo common government has a majority ownership or investment”.

ki Is that the intention or “Just majority not?

No?

ownership”.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Onorab Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker konsyan ki Minis in dir i pa pe sanz son Lalwa.

Mwan mon pa kontan fer exercise in futility pou anmenn en lamannman ki pou si Gouvernman pa oule fer.
Mon napa en mazorite.

defeated ganny But if I had a majority ti pou anmenn en mon lamannman pou met labank anba sa Schedule.

Now, mon kestyon pou Minis, ou le eksplisitman eksprim majority ownership as that control?

meaning correct?

Majority ownership as meaning control.

Is But then akoz ou pa'n konsistan avek definisyon public enterprise anler kot ou dir controlling interest?
annan en definisyon anler kot ou'n dir if Ou'n 90 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 I am not mistaken…… blah, blah, blah, blah ‘‘where the Government has controlling interest’’.

And then ou section 5 ou sanz ‘‘interest’’ ou mean ‘‘ownership’’.

don’t So why be consistent with that?

E met controlling interest or whether ou le, i pa sa ki ou le dir ankor enn fwa, i sa ki ou, ou anvi Minis.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis.

Yes Minister.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.
Mersi Onorab.

Mr Chair kekfwa mon ava pas avek AG’s Office.

Mwan mon Polisi, mon state what is the policy intension.

In terms of the legal drafting mon ava envit AG’s Office pou mont lo la.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Yes, Madam.

DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME Avek ou permisyon Mr Chair it does not make any difference.

The way it is status quo i sipoze ganny maintained.

I pa fer okenn diferans.

Parey i ete mon war li i ok. MR SPEAKER Ok thank you.

Si Manm napa continuous objection nou ava kontinyen.
Onorab Hoareau.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair lo paz 10 i annan 2, 2 insertion ki nou'n fini agree lo la.

Nou pa pou al lo la.

E nou al lo paz 11.

Lo paz 11, 7 (c)(2).

MR SPEAKER Sorry mon krwar kekfwa nou pe al en pe tro vit.

Onorab Pillay.

Go ahead Onorab Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker mon annan en klarifikasyon regarding clause 5 (2).
5 (2) i dir: - ‘‘Notwithstanding any other laws, the Commission shall have full administrative autonomy in discharging its functions under this Act’’.

Pli ba lo seksyon 17 i dir ki ‘‘The Minister may give to the Commission such directives as appear to him or her to be just and proper, for the effective discharge of the functions of the Commission under this Act’’.

Which would include administrative authority.


So, mon ti ava kontan ki nou met en proviso la ‘’notwithstanding any other inclusive of law section 17 (2).’’ E nou donn administrative autonomy sa Public Enterprise Monitoring 91 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Commission.

Akoz otherwise then nou right back to where we are now, kot Minis i annan kontrol lo Komisyon.

MR SPEAKER Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.
Mersi Onorab.

Onorab diferans ant sa 2 Seksyon se ki enn;- i koz lo administrative control, 17 pe koz lo functional.

Totalman diferan.

Mon pa war ki mannyer seksyon 17 (1) i enpakte lo the administrative autonomy.

Akoz seksyon 17 (1) pe koz lo functional reporting.

Well functional instruction to the Commission.

Mon pa vreman war en en annan pou nesesite lamannman la.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Les Legal Counsel adrese apre nou ava kontinyen.

DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME Thank you, Mr Chair.
Going back to Clause 4, eski mon byen for drafting sake, eski mon byen letan mon lir sa clause as follows: - ‘‘This Act applies to all public enterprises in which the has majority Government ownership as specified in Schedule 1.’’ Thank you, Mr Chair.

MR SPEAKER Yes, mon krwar ti sa ki kot nou ti'n arive.

Selman ok nou'n ariv lo 5 la.

Onorab Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker mon pa le labour sa pwen.


Be sa clause is written as ‘‘shall administrative have autonomy in discharging its functions’’.

full it So, impacts its functionality.

So, 17 (1) Minis ki pou donn li direktiv.

Be 5 nou donn li administrative autonomy.

As it stands la ozordi, PEMC in annan en debt ceiling, pa en debt ceiling, en budget ceiling ki i bezwen comply to.

I bezwen comply to circulars as to it to employment.
relates bann, Which in the case of the Auditor General, it is different akoz the Auditor General has basically the same mandate.

So si nou kre en antite ki for, why would we give the Minister back control?

Pou mwan sa Minis i annan kontrol.

Li menm li ki apwent sa CEO, li menm li ki dan lapwentman Komisyoner.

E li menm li ki pou donn directive sa Komisyon.


Sanmenm sa nou annan en problenm pou nou kapab agree, Lalwa dan lamazorite son bann clause i byen, be i 92 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 annan bann clause ki kre bann keksoz ki retourn nou right back to where we are.

Pa sipoze pa pe move nou devan.

E mon pa war ki mannyer nou pa pe war sa la.

Mr Speaker Sorry mon'n repran laparol avan ou'n donn Onorab Audrey Vidot parol.

Sorry.

MR SPEAKER Wi.

Nou ava ekout pwen Onorab Vidot, wi.


HON AUDREY VIDOT Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker en pe letan mon pe mon lanmen.

Me toultan, i paret mwan sa kote la nou pa tro, tro ganny gete byen, byen.

Mwan - annefe zisteman letan Minis ti pe fer son repons, son Drwa Repons, mon ti dir ki mon pou fer resorti akoz mon’n fer serten statement mon lentervansyon.

dan nou dan lentervansyon, nou pa'n ganny felisite nou.

O kontrer nou'n ganny kritike ek Minis.


Me sa ki enteresan dan sa bann issues ki nou'n leve Onorab Georges in fer resorti ki i annan tro bokou kontrol atraver lo kote bout Minis.

Me sa bann, selman nou pe demann lotonomi, pou sa bann dimoun, pou sa bann Board oubyen Komisyon pou li kapab fer son travay.

Alors Minis ou bezwen kler, onnet.

Se pou sa rezon ki mon dir poudir zot annan en problenm.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Minis, wi.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.
Mersi Onorab.

Mr Chair mwan mon pozisyon i kler, i annan en diferans ‘administrative between autonomy’ and ‘functional autonomy’.

Se zisteman lo sa 2 clause 5 (2) avek 17 (1).

Ler ou dir ou pe donn en lotonomi en Komisyon pou li kapab annan zwe bon rol gouvernans.

pou son Apre ou vini ou dir ki dan en lot clause kot ou pou annan, ou pou donn direktiv, ou pou donn pouvwar ankor dan li annan plis kontrol.
lanmen Minis pou E ler nou lo sa kote latab nou'n fer sorti sa bann pwen E mon war okenn okenn pou nesesite fer lamannman.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Manm i aksepte sa?

Ok si napa en amendment ki ganny propoze.

Nou ava kontinyen.

Onorab Georges.

Wi?

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair mon ti pe al dir egzakteman sa.

Si bann Manm lo kote minoriter 93 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 ti enterese pou amann sa, zot ti’n anmenn en amannman parey nou, nou’n anmenn plizyer ozordi.
en pwen, Zot pa kapab vey dan lapas ozordi, epi anmennen en pwen ki substantial amendment ki re vir tou keksoz lo son latet, e dir ler mon ti koze taler mon ti mansyonn sa alor mon anvi fer sorti la, san ki zot in anvoye en amannman pou ki nou, nou ti ava kapab e Minis ti ava kapab regarde.

Mon krwar nou bezwen en pti pe pli serye dan lafason ki nou fer nou travay.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Well mon krwar Onorab Loze ti'n lev lanmen avan taler i ava dir mwan mon pa’n war li.

Onorab Loze.
Onorab Loze.

HON JOHAN LOZE Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker mwan mon ti pe sers en klarifikasyon avek AG’s Office.

5 (3) ‘‘each organ of the State shall assist the Commission’’.

Mon vwar sa is a very wide brushstroke.

So, mon ti pe anvi demann AG’ Office si i annan en definition for organ of State anywhere dan bann lorganonn Sesel.

Akoz diferan landrwa i annan diferan lenterpretasyon.

Si ou pou al dan Lenn, organ of State i Legislative Executive avek Judiciary.
Be Sesel mon le konnen kwa ki ganny defini legalman as organs of State.?

Apre Mr Speaker, silvouple sa term vey dan lapas, zot gel ek nou zot dir nou travay, donn zot lanmen pou pous zot super yacht avek 3 jet deryer, la nou travay nou pe aktyelman pous zot super yacht pou zot, 25 sez vid pe asiz trankil apard Onorab Georges, i gele menm!

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Mwan mon ava kon lo mon difikilte pou mwan.

Mwan mon lentere, mon lentere se pou move on lo sa Bill.
So ler in ariv en serten nivo diskisyon ki Minis in donn en pozisyon, si napa en lamannman ki pe propoze, we have to move on.

Onorab Pillay, silvouple.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

E mon apresye ou predicament ki ou ladan e mon senserman anvi ede ki nou bouze.

Me selman Mr Speaker mon bezwen klarifye en keksoz.

I pe fer dezyenm fwa ki mon tann Onorab Georges dir li bann in lamannman ki nou'n anmennen.

anmennen.

Ki Be mon tann Onorab Hoareau pe lir lamannman Bills Committee.
Konmsi, konmsi mon ti a kontan ki 94 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Aret Onorab i pran en moman refleksyon.

les son mazorite mont dan son latet.

Silvouple, i lamannman Bills Committee pa ou lamannman.

Akoz se Onorab Hoareau ki pe move.

Otherwise Mr Speaker ou konnen ki nou pou fer, nou pou aret partisip dan Bills Committee.

Akoz i fer dezyenm fwa nou ganny sa bann komanter.

Lot fwa ti par en Vis-Prezidan, lamannman son kote latab.

Be nou bann Manm in travay dan Bills Committee.


So come on Mr Speaker avek tou respe, annou show respect for… MR SPEAKER Good, good in fact ou siport mon pwen Onorab.

Parske si Bills Committee in fer bann la, pwennvi amannman ki Lopozisyon in deza ganny reflekte dan bann amannman.

Onorab Georges ou pe al antre dan sa largiman?

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair byen koze i fer byen konpran.

Nou’n dir plizyer fwa, Bills Committee napa okenn lotorite pou anmenn okenn lamannman.
Tou lamannman i bezwen ganny anmennen par en Manm.

Ok. E Onorab Hoareau pe anmenn sa bann lamannman ki nou Caucus in donn li pou anmennen.

E i pe anmenn sa dan son non.

Alors pa koz Bills Committee, Bills Committee pa'n zwenn depi sa soz in re Gazete.

Nou Caucus ki'n travay, nou Caucus ki'n anmenn sa bann lamannman.

Alor annou konpran sa silvouple.

Si zot, zot pa'n amenn lamannman, Zot pe vey dan lapas.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Ok mon pe zis, ahh non.

Yes Onorab Pillay.
Yes Onorab Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker mon ti ava kontan demann ou koman Speaker.

Donn en Ruling enn fwa pou tou.

Akoz la i fer dezyenm fwa sa statement i ganny fer.

Avek avek toute konfidans ki nou, nou pa matter lo Bills Committee.

larogans e Mon pa kontan sa kalite statement Mr Speaker.

Mon respe ou en kantite e mon kontan apre midi bann keksoz ki ou'n dir ki nou le fer keksoz avanse, i byen.

kosyonn I devret Me selman mon krwar ou Onorab devret Georges.

ganny kosyonnen Mr Speaker!


Akoz sa statement ki in fer pa korek.

email ki nou’n Sa gannyen i mansyonn Bills Committee.

Se sa email ki Clerk in anvoy nou.

E se sa ki mon'n lir Onorab Georges, 95 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Vandredi, Sanmdi, depi Dimans, Lendi ok, ki mon'n travay.

So, mon pa kontan sa statement.

E mon ti ava kontan Mr Speaker ou fer Onorab Georges retract sa statement ki i fer, akoz i en mank respe pou bann Manm US ki lo Bills Committee.
I en mank respe pou nou Mr Speaker!

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Eskiz mwan, mon krwar sa pe divert mon latansyon from the Bill.

So, i ava en size ki mon ava kapab konsidere pli tar.

Be annou kontinyen.

in dir Ok kot nou'n arive la?

Dernyen pozisyon se Minis, i pa war Minis kontradiksyon ant 5(3) ek 17 (1).

Ok. Amwen ki Manm i le kontinyen obzekte sa nou ava aksepte.

So, we will move on.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair nou'n ariv lo paz 11.


7 (c) (2) kot i dir ‘‘there shall be paid out of the fund’’.

Nou le ki sa mo ‘fund’ i ganny defini la.

vedir ganny mete ‘‘fund of the Commission’’.

MR SPEAKER Minis i annan en komanter.

Yes, nou pe koz lo Executive Director.

OF DIRECTOR THE STATE EXECUTIVE OFFICE SECRETARY OF IRENE CROISE Mersi Mr Speaker.

Bonn apre midi tou Onorab.

Pou fund anba 7 (1) in ganny spesifye, be selman nou pou fer li konsistan.

Nou pou met ‘‘fund of the Commission’’ instead of ‘fund’.
MR SPEAKER Ok. Go on Onorab Hoareau.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi.

Nou al lo.

MR SPEAKER Yes Sorry.

Mon pa'n, yes Onorab Loze.

HON JOHAN LOZE Mr Speaker ou'n donn mwan laparol mon'n demann en senp leklersisman, and for some reason mon'n ganny inyore.

Mon'n zis senpleman demande eski i egziste en definisyon for organs of State anywhere dan lorganon Sesel?

Se tou.

MR SPEAKER Ok panel, Minis.

Lekel ki pou adres sa?

Counsel.

DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME No, it does not exist as far as….
96 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 HON JOHAN LOZE Mr Speaker but then what are we trying to say by ‘organ of State’?

Kwa sa, sa animal la?

MR SPEAKER Ok. Ou ankor lo menm pwen Onorab Pillay?

Yes ok. Adrese apre nou ava ganny en sel repons.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker problenm i vin akoz nou'n servi sa definisyon pou dekrir everything that fall under the State.

And then nou met li as organ of State.

Me Onorab Loze i annan en pwen.


There is no definition for those organs of State.

So, what exactly is meant par sa ki zot pe sey dir organ of State?

Konpran?

We have to take this seriously akoz nou le ki sa Lalwa ler i sorti i sorti byen.

Nou setyenm Lasanble fodre nou bann Lalwa lo en standar.

i Onorab Georges i konnen ler nou, nou koze i byen nou.
MR SPEAKER Ok. Vi ki Counsel in dir napa definisyon organ, eski i annan en lot mo ki kapab ganny mete la ki capture the intention of lekel ki devret ed Komisyon pou perform son fonksyon?

Yes Onorab Georges?

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mr Chair Mersi.

I pa akoz napa en definisyon ki nou pa kapab servi sa.

It is a well-known term of art.

Organ of States se every MDA, every part of the structure of the State will assist the Commission to perform its function.
Mon krwar ler nou napa en definisyon we fall back on the general linguistic definition.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Zis pou donn policy intention of sa clause.

Se ki tou antite Gouvernman i la pou ed PEMC dan son louvraz ki i fer.

So that was the policy intention.

E ler mon regard Onorab enterpretasyon Georges mon krwar sa policy intention is covered by the wording.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Loze.

HON JOHAN LOZE Mr Speaker be Minis in kler li.


In dir tou antite Gouvernman.

Be pa dir an Angle sa?

Pa nobou ekrir an Angle sa ki Minis in dir la?

I kler li.

Rezon ki mon lev sa pwen se ki sa term organ at State parey Onorab Georges in dir general definition, the art of 97 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 it - different is whatever countries it means different things.

Si ou pou al dan Konstitisyon Lenn i defini dan koman zot Lezislatif, avek Zidisyer.
Konstitisyon Egzekitiv Nou isi nou fall back lo general interpretation.

Be nou annan of language.

E Minis in dir en keksoz an Kreol la ki precise, ki kler.

imprecision en MR SPEAKER Wi mon ti ava dir Minis konsider sa parske i en pwen ki Onorab Loze in fer ki mon aksepte, in linguistic term an organ of State can also mean the Assembly par egzanp.

So eski i enkli sa?

Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair mwan mon'n eksplik from a policy intention kwa ki nou ti anvi i antre la, me mon ava pas avek AG’s Office pou donn en konfirmasyon.

Mwan mon'n state the intention, eski AG’s policy Office i feel poudir sa policy intention in ganny capture la or not, mon pa en avoka.

Mersi.

As far as I am concerned it has been captured.

Because in our Constitution it is clear, organ of the Government Legislature, the Executive, and the Judiciary.
means MR SPEAKER Yes.?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker I understand what you mean.

It is an organ of Government not of the State.

You see an organ of the State ki ou mon pe koz lo la par egzanp in terms of CAA.

its CAA own has independence.

The National Assembly own has independence.

The Judiciary has its independence.

its You cannot force them to comply with anything that the Commission will ask.

They will act within their mandate as it to work, travay ki relates Komisyon pou fer.
What you are saying la se ki sa Lalwa pe supersede Lasanble lendepandans Nasyonal.

E mwan mon bezwen par egzanp ki dir ‘’assist to perform function effectively’’, non.

the Commission its MR SPEAKER Mersi.

AG’s Office.

Counsel.

LEGAL IRENE SIRAME DRAFTSPERSON Mon pou fer oversight pou asire ki the Commission i perform son function effectively.

It is the other way round.

98 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 The Commission i ava asiste mwan koman Lasanble Nasyonal dan mon fonksyon.
I ava asiste Zidisyer dan son fonksyon.

So, you have to be clear about sa akoz ou pe kre en constitutional ambiguity ki pa sipoze la.

Lentansyon policy- makers se zot le ki bann antite Gouvernman as it relates to ACCS, as it relates to lezot, i li dan son bezwen asiste travay.

But even then, ou bezwen get zot lenterpretasyon.

Akoz par egzanp Lalwa ICCS pa i dir ou poudir ACCS shall act independent of okenn sa?

en Be ou pe met lobligasyon lo li to assist the Commission.
The Commission can seek the assistance of ACCS.

Ki en Law Enforcement Authority ki en, quasi en independent body.

It seek the can the Auditor assistance of General.

Ki ganny govern anba son prop Lalwa.

Konpran?

propozisyon pou fer lo la.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Yes please.

Madam Counsel avans mikro avek ou silvouple.

Mon'n konpran ou'n dir Government in the place of State la, se sa?

DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME Mr Chair mon pe propoz Government entity.

MR SPEAKER ‘State’?

Ok?


In place of Madanm Counsel relir sa bout sa fraz silvouple ki ou pe propoze.

Madanm Counsel.

DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME Savedir mon pe propoz ‘each Government entity shall assist the Commission to perform its function effectively’.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Georges.

MR SPEAKER Eski panel, Manm ti ava oubyen konsider kontan propoz en lamannman that would read something like ‘‘each organ of the Executive Government’’?

Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair Legal Draftsperson annan en HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair wi it is better, but the problem is i ankor still open-ended akoz mon krwar ki nou still kapab lekor, oubyen define nou Judiciary as a Government entity.

Because there are 3 branches of Government.


Eski mon ti ava kapab propoze e se pou sa rezon ki 99 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 mon’n ankouraz Onorab Loze pou retourn lo la, akoz it is an important consideration.

Eski mon, akoz mon vwar egzakteman pwen ki Onorab Leader Lopozisyon in fer.

Nou bezwen mentenir nou e definitely lendepandans Judiciary bezwen mentenir sa ki pou li.
pou compromising How about this, ‘‘each organ of the State shall, its without authority and independence, assist to functions perform effectively.’’ the Commission its Sa i donn en escape hatch akoz se sa mo ‘‘shall’’.

MR SPEAKER Yes Onorab Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Might we be going about this the wrong way?

Nou pe obliz bann organs of State to assist the Commission.

Akoz nou pa dir the Commission i kapab ganny lasistans bann organs of State dan delivery of son fonksyon.
Eski sa pou depart tro bokou form sa policy initiative ki Gouvernman i annan.

konpran ki Gouvernman i le dir.

Bann antite pou bezwen asiste sa Komisyon dan performans son fonksyon.

I annan diferan antite ki fer diferan fonksyon Mon Sesel.

E sa i enkli bann MDAs, bann bann departman, Minister, bann lezot aktivite.

Ki kapab Tender Board i kapab lezot.

But without compromising mon konpran sa ki Onorab Georges in dir me nou met li apre Executive branch petet.
MR SPEAKER Wi, non rezon ki mon war, mon pa tro anvi antre dan deba be selman mon krwar poudir Minis in dir poudir son lentansyon sete MDAs and similar institutions.

So klerman sa Judiciary avek Legislature pa ti dan son lentansyon.

Minis le retourn lo la please?

ou MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair mon ava propoze ki nou met each organ of the Executive, of the Executive branch shall assist the Commission to perform its functions.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Tre byen.

Manm i aksepte sa?

Good.


Onorab Hoareau nou a kontinyen.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair lo paz 11 ankor 8 (1) nou fini agree lo la so nou pa pou perdi letan lo la.

100 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Nou ava al lo paz 12.

10 (b).

Mon ava les Onorab Georges eksplik en pti kou sa propozisyon ki i annan.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Yes, mersi Mr Chair, in fact mon vwar ki Acting CEO in dakor.
Mon ti anvi, akoz nou, i annan en definisyon principal officers an ler ki al en pe pli lwen ki sa enn.

E mon ti pe zis propoze ki nou add public officers as well.

So ‘is serving as the chief executive officer, member of the Board of any enterprise, public officer - sorry Principal officers’ eksetera.
enterprise, ‘Chief executive officer or member of the Board of any its public subsidiaries, joint venture, or associate; so, in serving as chief executive officer, principal officer or member of the Board enterprise’ of any public eksetera.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Mon krwar sa i kler.

Minis, panel.

Yes Mrs Croise.

EXECUTIVE OFFICE SECRETARY OF IRENE CROISE OF DIRECTOR THE STATE Mr Chair we agree on the proposal.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

This is settled.

Onorab Hoareau.


HON JOHN HOAREAU Ok we move on to page 13.

Page 13 Clause 14 (1) (a) ki nou pe suggest.

MR SPEAKER Sorry eskiz mwan.

Kekfwa nou'n sote.

Onorab Cosgrow.

HON WALLACE COSGROW Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker mon le zis troun lo 9 anler appointment of Commissioners.

kontradiksyon Mon war i annan en pti la pe appointment of Commissioners.

Minis li menm i partisip dan apwentman Komisyoner.

Anba sa clause 9 (1).


Me solman Minis li osi i kapab donn direksyon si mon pa tronpe konn Komisyoner pli tar dan Lalwa Mr Speaker.

i annan Mon pe sey rod sa clause.

sa solman Be lapwentman konfizyon ant Komisyoner apre Minis i osi kapab direktiv donn Komisyoner.

So Mr Speaker mon pe gete si eski sa pou nou, nou war li i korek Mr Speaker mon pe zis rod sa clause mon pa pe war li.
101 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Me solman si Minis pa krwar i annan serten konfli ladan la Mr Speaker?

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis ou’n konpran kote nou ete?

lo annan sa dezagreman administrative autonomy and functional autonomy, which are two different things.

So, mon anliny avek sa ki mon'n mansyonnen taler mon pa war en konfli.

Mersi.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.
Mersi Onorab.

So, seksyon 9 (1) (2) i eksplik prosedir pou apwent the - sa ki previously nou ti dir the Board of - sa nou apel zot the Commissioner.

The Board of Commissioners, ok.

Which i ganny apwente upon recommendation of the Minister.

Well, the President upon appoints recommendation the Minister.

E clause ki ou pe, ki clause egzakteman pli tar ki ou dir ou annan conflict Onorab?

17. of HON WALLACE COSGROW Mr Speaker mon'n perdi li la.

Mon pou, let me get back to it and then I will get back to.
MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Seksyon 17 (1).

‘‘The Minister may give to the Commission such directives as appear to him to be just and proper for the effective discharge of the functions of the Commission’’.

Sa i prerogativ Minis pou lo donn fonksyon.


I link up avek sa ki nou ti pe koz lo la taler ki ti direktiv serten sa difikilte HON WALLACE COSGROW Wi Mr Speaker egzakteman se akoz mon krwar Minis pa'n war ant administrative autonomy avek sa functional directive ki, sa functional directive ki zot krwar donnen.

E mon sanmenm sa petet ki Minis pa pe - mon pa konnen si ou pare pou bouze lo sa enn anvi ki ou pa'n pare pou bouze lo lot, lo sa enn previously.
Akoz mwan mon war i annan en konfli la, vi ki Minis pe apwente apre Minis i osi donn direktiv.

So eski napa en konfli Mr Speaker dan sa laliny?

E i tie in lo sa pwen ki mon'n fer boner dan mon lentervansyon boner, kot i annan tro bokou lenterferans.

Konmsi Minis i annan tro bokou sa pouvwar Komisyon, lo sa antite li menm Mr Speaker.

lo MR SPEAKER Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Speaker, Mersi Onorab.
Mr Chair i pa fer 102 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 premye Lalwa ki mon vin prezante kot i annan bokou kestyon konsern lo pouvwar parti Minis Lopozisyon.

sorti kot pa annou Me dan en sistenm, Sesel i annan en sistenm Egzekitiv, en bliye - Konstitisyon in set up en sistenm Egzekitiv, e Egzekitiv i annan responsabilite pou fonksyonnman bann organs of the Executive branch.
Sa i bann prerogativ ki Prezidan ler i ganny elekte avek popilasyon i ganny sa manda, e sa manda through the Cabinet of Ministers, e dan Ministers zot menm i delegate sa responsabilite ki lepep i donn li.

lopozisyon So, mon konnen ler ou dan ou war pouvwar Minis i bokou, ler ou dan Gouvernman ou pa war li bokou.

Me sa i loptik ou pou get li.

Mon asire Onorab ler i ti Minis i ti pou argimant lot kote, la i pou.

Be i senpleman loptik ki ou pe get li e mon pa war okenn konfli.

Mersi.
Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Cosgrow mon ava aksepte en pwen ki Minis in fer;- sa size pouvwar Minis in en size ki nou'n diskite kontinyelman bann Lalwa.

dan Obviously, the intention is for it to be there.

So mwan mon krwar ou bezwen aksepte poudir sa i lentansyon sa Lalwa.

Onorab Vidot.

Onorab HON AUDREY VIDOT Mr Speaker, nou respekte lo sa size nou.

Me selman sa ki nou baze lo repons ki Minis in Cosgrow.
donn Gouvernman in sanze e lo zot Cabinet i annan en Minis ki ler i ti dan sizyenm Lasanble, i ti annan en issue avek sa zafer kontrol pou Minis.

E la ozordi i dan Cabinet.

Eski zot, letan zot in pran pouvwar, zot in, konmsi in nepli zot prensip oubyen zot in zis deside pou zot kontinyen avek sa pratik?

Ou konpran?

Konmsi eklersi.

Koumsa nou pa bezwen demann ankor Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Minis not sa pwen.


Me selman mon krwar nou pa kapab aret diskisyon lo sa Lalwa, pou nou antre dan sa diskisyon filozofik.

Nou zis dezwenn aksepte poudir that is the principle ki'n ganny servi la.

So, eskiz mwan.

Onorab kapab ava ou Hoareau kontinyen.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair lo paz 13, 14 (1) (a) mon pa war okenn sir ki zot in endike ki zot 103 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 dakor avek so mon pou raise sa.
of ‘The a office Commissioner shall become resignation’ vacant, (a) upon nou nou'n sizere ki nou delete ‘of the Commissioner by’ e nou insert ‘after giving notice of twenty-eight days in writing to the President’.

Ok?

And then (c) nou pe retir… MR SPEAKER Eskiz mwan ou bezwen, ou pa bezwen approval Minis lo la, in dakor?

HON JOHN HOAREAU Zot in indicate ki zot dakor.

Zot indicate ki zot dakor.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Onorab Gill.

Kot ou ete?

HON CHURCHILL GILL Mersi Mr Speaker.


Lo menm clause me selman (b) avan ki li i al (c).

ler sa paragraf i fini, i fini 2 fwa ek Minister.

‘By the the responsible Minister or Minister;’ Is sa?

Koumsanmenm zot ti le?

Ok. ok it HON JOHN HOAREAU Yes ‘the Minister’ i mean the Minister Finance.

for Responsible Minister i son line Minister.

Ok ‘’upon (c) disqualification from serving as a Commissioner under Section 10’’, remove.

‘the’ the i ganny Ok paz 14 i ok zot in agree.


Paz 15 osi zot in agree.

Paz- MR SPEAKER One second mon krwar i annan kestyon kot nou'n pase la.

Onorab Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker, mon le refer lo clause 17.

MR SPEAKER Yes.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Ok.

Clause 17 mon annan en konsern ok. Nou ti'n fini deal avek bann size Komisyoner anler.

Me an ski konsern Clause 17 (1).


‘The Minister may give to the Commission such directives as appear to him just and proper.’ Prezan in osi dir poudir Minis i annan serten kontrol vizavi ki Gouvernman i met an plas.

Policy bann Nou'n annan 2 legzanp resaman kot bann policy ki Gouvernman in met an plas, enn regarding par egzanp logmantasyon saler.
E lot regarding payment of thirteenth month salaries ki ler nou’n ekout bann Board 104 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 koze, zot, zot napa problenm pou zot peye.

Par egzanp annou refer to PUC par egzanp.

Eski Minis pa krwar poudir sa pouvwar, e dan lespri en pti pe liberalis ki Onorab Georges in koz lo la, mon hope ki i siport mwan la.

That means ki ou annan kontrol lo en desizyon ki sa Board in fer apre ki in fer son due diligence e i krwar i kapab siport sa ki i pe fer?
E mon konsern se ki prezan vacillation lo nivo Gouvernman pou fer ki sa bann Board pa pou kapab enact sa bann pozisyon ki zot pran.

So eski Minis i kapab eksplik nou, kwa ki i pe mean by ‘directives?

An ski konsern sa clause 17 (1).

Dan 17 (2) mon pa konnen si in fini ganny korize.

Nou pe koz ‘the Minister, the responsible Ministers with the consent of the Minister’.

Mon war en ‘the’ i manke dan sa clause.

Ya i mank en, i mank en ‘the’ la dan sa clause.

In retire.

Ok.
In retire.

Ok.

So eski Minis i kapab eksplik 17 (1) Mr Speaker?

Pa eksplike me klarifye lo sa directive.

Akoz nou'n koz lo autonomy for administrative function for the Commission.

Be la nou pe koz spesifikman to bann SOE’s akoz PEMC last year li ki ti pe issue let avek bann SOE’s pou zot pa pey trezyenm mwan saler.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

(1) MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.
Mersi Onorab.

i Onorab seksyon 17 seksyon mon krwar mon'n eksplik plis in terms of son rasyonal e akoz ki Egzekitiv i devret dan en pozisyon.

Mon mazinen kekfwa ou ti’n sorti eksplik mon ler mon'n pozisyon Onorab Cosgrow.

avek Akoz ki Egzekitiv i devret annan pouvwar pou donn direktiv Komisyon.

Ok.

So mon pa le al ankor ladan dan kontrent letan Mr Chair akoz mon'n lo seksyon 17 (1).

Mersi.

eksplik bokou MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Mon pa konnen lekel ki.

Les mon ava les LOTO fini avek son pwen.


Me selman nou pa pou kapab kontinyen diskit sa.

LOTO?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mon konpran ki ou pe dir.

Me Minis mon pe regard bann statement ki'n ganny carried dan medya ler PEMC ti issue sa let.

E enn ou bann statement ou sete ki, sa i PEMC apre ki in fer son travay.

E sa ti an relasyon avek bann let ki ti 105 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 sirkile regarding PEMC ti ekrir PUC.
travayer pa Ou pe dir ek mwan poudir ou le retain serten kontrol.

Me dan medya ou ti dir en lot keksoz diferan.

So klarifye pou mwan which is which la?

Savedir ler PEMC pou issue en let par egzanp avek Board SCAA pou pa pey son egzanp logmantasyon or anything, or issue avek PUC pou pa pey trezyenm mwan or bonous, eski ki PEMC ki pe issue sa let?

Oubyen se Minis ki pe issue sa let an traver PEMC?

Nou bezwen ganny sa kler Mr Speaker.

Se sa en sticking point ki nou, nou annan lo sa Lalwa.
Si nou ti napa sa bann problenm, nou ti pe siporte sa Lalwa Mr Speaker.

Be nou annan bann problenm, bann keksoz ki nou pa, nou'n santi poudir bann lenterferans dan travay bann SOE’s e sirtou ban desizyon bann Board e travay PEMC ki fer sans Mr pou nou pa Speaker.

annan i E Minis i dir en keksoz and then fer en lot.

So, i dir nou in eksplike, be eksplik nou sa statement ki i ti fer.

MR SPEAKER Non, i ava eksplik nou sa Lalwa.

Minis?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.
Mersi Onorab.

mon byen konpran ou sa ki ou le mon dir pou ou purpose politik mon krwar, mon konpran byen ki ou le mon dir.

Me mon la pou mon reponn kestyon lo sa ….

Mr Speaker mon napa plis pou dir akoz ozordi mon la pou koz lo clause dan, clause 17 (1) ek (2).

Mon pa konnen ki Onorab i le mon dir.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Cosgrow.

HON WALLACE COSGROW Ya, Mr Speaker pou mwan sey convince Minis otherwise lo sa clause 17 (1) en?
Si mon pran son largiman ki i ti fer boner avek nou an se ki konsern Nouvobanq e lefe ki or labank.

E lefe ki Central Bank pa pou allow Gouvernman pou dictate the dividend payment I pou the shareholder.

to respekte desizyon Board.

So si nou pran sa nou extend li to the - konmsi nou extend the same courtesy to sa bann Board of sa bann enterprises.

E ou koman Minis or whoever koman Minis, i osi donn serten respe serten lotonomi sa bann Board pou fer serten desizyon.
E ki Minis pa antre dan desizyon sa bann, zis parey lo kote labank, ou extend the same courtesy avek sa bann SOEs e ki Minis i limit son 106 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 enteraksyon avek sa bann SOEs dan en fason kot i respekte osi serten lotonomi, pa lotonomi me selman serten pouvwar sa bann Board pou fer serten travay.

So si mon kapab sway ou lo sa kote pou nou kapab tir en pe, dilute en pe bann powers ki Minis i annan anba 17 (1).

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis.


MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.

Kekfwa Onorab pou reponn ou kestyon, mon ava demann ou en kestyon.

Si ou, non, non zis pou mon illustrate en pwen illustrate en mon bezwen pwen.

MR SPEAKER Non, en kestyon retorik.

En kestyon retorik.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Ok Onorab.

Mon ava met li dan en konteks en dimoun fiksyonnel.

So individual x i annan li en lakonpannyen, i owner of sa lakonpannyen ok?
E i annan de lezot owner y, z, ok li i majority shareholder li.

I apwent en Board pou run son lakonpannyen ok, ou pe follow mwan la?

Sa Board pa pe act in accordance avek lentere shareholder.

Eski shareholder i devret annan pouvwar pou li dismiss sa Board, ou donn direktiv sa Board?

MR SPEAKER Ok. Look, Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mon le eksplik, Mr Chair mon le eksplik Onorab akoz pou labank i diferan.

The bank i spesyal li, it is a regulated entity.

I diferan avek en antite ki pa ganny related.


Lezot lakonpannyen anba Companies Act this is the way it works.

Me en labank akoz i hold depositors funds sanmenm sa i annan ekstra restriksyon lo li.

Zis pou mon klersi sa pwen.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi, mon krwar i kler ki Minis in dir pa son lentansyon pou li sanz sa policy ki in mete la - sa prensip.

A mwen ki Lasanble i le override e re ekrir sa Lalwa, nou pou bezwen move on pase lo la.

Onorab Pillay, wi- nou move on.


HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mon pou fer mon dernyen komanter lo sa size baze lo sa ki Minis in dir nou.

Minis i liste en pwen fasinan, i dir nou poudir sa de 107 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 x ek dan endividi sirkonstans kot sa Board pa pe lentere Gouvernman.

dan act y Eski Minis pe dir mon ki dan lentere ki travayer PUC kot Board ti dakor pou donn sa e logmantasyon, Gouvernman son desizyon pa ti baze lo lefe ki PUC pa kapab peye.
Ti baze lo lefe ki ti'n pran en desizyon across the board as en policy decision pou tou bann SOEs pa peye.

Sa ki mon pwen.

Sa ti napa naryen pou fer avek sa antite.

E this is the problem ki nou pe, diferans ki nou pe annan menm si Minis i servi son legzanp fiktif.

Son legzanp fiktif son largiman i tonbe par son prop lesplikasyon.

Akoz sa ki nou pe dir ek li, e si li i pe dir nou sa, mon napa okenn lentere fer politik ek sa Mr Speaker, non pa sa.
Ok Mr Speaker, eski Minis pe dir ek bann travayer PUC demen ki si zot Board i deside apre travay ki zot in fer, zot konpannyen in fer profi e i kapab pey zot en bonous.

Si Gouvernman pa pe kapab peye dan lezot antite, zot pa pou ganny peye akoz i pou en policy Gouvernman ki PUC pou bezwen comply malgre son Board in deside lo baz prodiktivite, pou donn son bann travayer?

This is what the, I rest my case Mr Speaker.

This is what he is telling us.

Nou pa sanze nou kit li parey, fair enough, napa problenm.
MR SPEAKER Please nou pa Kapab ziz sa Lalwa an term ka spesifik ki kapab arive soz.

Nou bezwen les li sa.

Onorab Loze ou ankor lo sa pwen la ou?

avan lanmen HON JOHAN LOZE Non Mr Speaker.

Mon ti'n lev mon e separeman.

Mon just a little bit down, mon ti le point out en keksoz (1) anba protection for actions taken under his Act.

Ok?
Ok?

lo 18 (1) 18 i states, ‘‘no commissioner shall assume management any responsibility or be involved in the day-to-day administration of the Commission or any public enterprise and any Commissioner who to this provision comply with shall be personally liable for any loss or damage caused’’.

fails Mon kestyon ki mwan mon ti le leklersisman ki mon le rode, ou point out lo komansman en clear infraction ‘‘No Commissioner shall - assume any management responsibility’’.
Be ou preskripsyon ki ou mete i pa adres ki in 108 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 management assume responsibility ki i pa ti devret, ou preskripsyon i plito adres ki si i fail to comply, i pou annan personal liability for loss or damage caused.

Be ou enfraksyon ki ou’n state anler i pa ganny adrese li.

I adres si, be si napa loss or damage caused, i ok li, in … in fer en keksoz ki ou dir li pa fer e ou pa adres sa.

E prezan mon ti annan en lot kestyon.


Akoz sa i tonm anba protection for actions taken under his Act?

How is this a protection for action taken under this Act?

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Minis ou le adrese?

Minis I annan en repons sorti kot panel oubyen-?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mr Chair mon ava pas laparol avek AG’s Office pou sa enn.

MR SPEAKER Yes, Madanm Counsel.

DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME Mr Chair mon ti ava kontan Onorab i repet e pti kou son kestyon please.
Mon ti ava kontan Mr Loze, ou repet ou kestyon.

MR SPEAKER Klarifye silvouple Onorab.

HON JOHAN LOZE Yes, Mr Speaker.

Mon le adres (1) anba protection for 18 actions under this Act.

18(1) i komanse.

‘‘No Commissioner shall assume any management responsibility or be involved in the day-to-day administration of the Commission or any public enterprise’’.

Bon, sa ou'n dir klerman sa ou'n set out ki i pa devret fer.
‘And any Commissioner who fails to comply with the provision shall be personally liable for any loss or damage caused’’.

Mon kestyon ki mon pe demande mwan, ou’n state en lo komansman.

enfraksyon ‘‘No shall Commissioner assume any management responsibility or be involved in the day-to-day administration of the Commission or any public enterprise’’.

Ou’n dir kler.
Ou’n dir kler.

Now your prescription ki ou mete for this infraction se, ‘‘and any Commissioner who fails this to comply with provision shall be personally liable for any loss or damage caused’’.

But your prescription i adres loss or damage caused.

It does not address the fact ki he has caused an infraction ki ou’n dir li pa fer.

Which is to take, to get involved in the day- 109 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 to-day administration.

You do not address this.


of So, this person can … par the day-to-day taking administration the Commission or of a public enterprise and if he does not cause, loss or incur any damage, he walks away into free, no the sunset scout penalties.

And prezan mon'n further enquire why is this protection for actions taken, protections for actions taken under this Act?

How is this a protection for an action taken under this Act?
DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME Mr, Chair I think we have, kekfwa i ariv en kot nou'n - i pa en mistake me selman annan de ler dan drafting ou ganny caught up avek so many words.

I believe that it should, there should be a full stop in the after ‘’enterprise.’’ And the rest of the word should be deleted accordingly.

Should be deleted.

third line MR SPEAKER Yes, Onorab Georges in lev lanmen avan.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair, permet mwan retourn lo sa pozisyon.


Mon - Mr Speaker vwar mon ti a reponn sa kestyon avek ou permisyon dan en fason diferan.

Mon ki pa neseserman i annan en - ki sa dezyenm parti sa clause 18 (1) i pa swiv avek son enn premye.

Akoz sel keksoz 18 (1) pe dir sa se lenfraksyon e si i annan okenn sa loss Commissioner vin responsab.
damage, pou i annan or si pou Generally, son lofans ki i komet, by assuming management responsibility, in anyway whether or not there is any loss or damage caused i ganny kouver anba clause 84 (d) - 94 (d) ki dir ‘any offence under any contravention of this Act is an offence’.

Act, this Alors sa premye bout i ava ganny captured by 94 (d) sa dezyenm bout ‘‘civil liability for loss or damage’’.

Mon pa vwar ki i annan en problenm.


i for the As second question of Onorab, mon krwar protection i ganny it is the headnote.

E si i pa apply to 18 (1) i sertennman apply to 18 (2) and 18 (3) and 18 (4).

Tousala se bann proteksyon ki sa Lalwa i donn li.

Mr Chair, eski mon kapab pandan ki mon annan, non mon ava retourn lo la apre.

Mon annan en lot keksoz pou koz lo la.

Mersi.

110 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 MR SPEAKER Mersi.
Onorab Pillay si ou le adres sa apre ou ava pran repons Minis.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Chairman, Mr Chairman mon krwar pwen Onorab Loze se ki 18 (1) - 18 (1) napa plas la.

this Act Akoz protection for action is taken under protection for action that in good faith.

So that applies to number 2, it applies to 3.

Akoz 3 - 18 (3) i dir poudir okenn expenses incurred blah, blah, blah dan en suit pou ganny recovered dan en fason.

So, sa i deal avek bann aksyon ki'n ganny fer in good faith.
Be premye aksyon i pa en aksyon ki'n ganny fer in good faith.

la pran Premye aksyon i en aksyon ki'n ganny fer in bad faith akoz ou'n dir li poudir pa bezwen en responsabilite.

Ou konpran?

So, there should be, i pa sipoze okenn ganny protection la.

This clause 18 (1) should not be here.

18 (1) i devret desann anba kot i liability pou bann aksyon ki i pou fer ki mal.
pe So that means ki sa i bezwen ganny retire kot i ete and then 18 (2) i devret vin 18 (1) and then subsequently 18 (3) i ava vin 2 and the 4 i ava vin 3.

Because (1) does not make sense where it is.

(1) i en liability ki sa Commissioner pou incur akoz in fer en aksyon in bad faith.

Sa clause ki la i sipoze protez bann aksyon ki done in good faith.

Wi Mr Speaker.

Mersi.

Nou'n lir Bill nou, en?

MR SPEAKER Mon vreman pa konnen si en sizesyon i kapab ede oubyen non.
Obviously, mon sezi sa pwen poudir i annan diferan kalite aksyon la.

Would it help if this, the heading is protection or responsibility for actions taken under this Act?

Wi akoz sa premye i responsabilite en Komisyoner.

Lezot i provide protection pou soz lo la.

Mon zis met sa pou konsiderasyon an ka.

Minis?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair, mon pe zis regarde kekfwa si nou move sa 18 (1) anba seksyon 94 kot i koz non- compliance.

‘ ‘offences and MR SPEAKER Ok si Minis i propoz sa Manm i aksepte.
MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Non, non.

Non, non, non, non, i pa pou marse Mr Chair, akoz sa i non-compliance, it is not 111 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 from the perspective of the Commissioners but the public enterprise.

Non, non, i pa pou bon dan 94.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Onorab Pillay, wi?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY I pa pou kapab al anba 94, i pou bezwen vin avan 94.

Akoz i pou en ofans anba sa Lalwa li.

I pou en lofans, e i pou en lofans ki annan en penalti ek li.
I deza en lofans, nou’n fini fer li vin en lofans e i annan en penalti ki li ki pou pey sa loss or damage.

94 li i about en dimoun ki pa pe donn lenformasyon, so i ava prescribed bann 94 lofans ki ava en Commissioner ki pran sa responsibility management pou oubyen sa lot bout.

Kot la i vin liable.

enkli Akoz i pa, nou pa kapab donn li en proteksyon pou sa.

I bezwen sorti kot i ete anler.


Ki mon pe sizere, ou ava annan en 94 1 (a) oubyen en 94 (a) ki ava dir nou pran sa clause 18 (1) i ava vin sa nouvo 94 (a) then ou ava annan 94.

Akoz i deza en lofans anba sa Lalwa ki i pe komet.

MR SPEAKER Yes Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair mon krwar ki, mon pa vwar frankly akoz nou pe pas letan lo la.
E mon pe mazinen ki erezman i annan meeting Au Cap ozordi, akoz si bann dimoun dan lakour ti pe vey nou e ki zot ti napa en lot keksoz pou veye, zot ti'n komet swisid depi byen lontan avek lafason ki nou pe ale.

E mon pa pe koz zis pou lot kote, mon pe koz lo tou lede kote akoz mon mazinen sa ki nou pe fer la i super boring pou okenn dimoun ki pe swiv nou.

headnote en zanmen pou kouver tou sa ki annan dan son seksyon ki swiv.

en zis lendikasyon.
en zis lendikasyon.

donn Mon, I So perhaps to soz, annou mete parey ou'n sizere.

Ou ti'n sizer en?

MR SPEAKER Mon ti propoz responsibility and protection.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Wi and responsibility protection for actions taken.

That fini avek.

Mon krwar nou’n deal avek sa akoz in any event konsern Onorab Loze i ganny kouver anba 94 (d).

Over and above sa i pe komet en lofans ki i kapab ganny pourswiv anba 94 (d).
Pandan ki mon annan laparol Mr Speaker avan ki 112 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 mon perdi.

Si nou retourn lo 17 (2) Onorab Pillay in fer en propozisyon pli boner e mon dakor avek li.

Mon pa krwar ki nou’n capture li.

E mon pe koz la pou Senior Legal Officer ki pe swiv e ki pe track.

Mon krwar ki a lafen premye laliny dan 17 (2) nou bezwen insert en ‘‘the’’ with the consent of the Minister ki manke for the time being.
E mon krwar Onorab Hoareau pli boner in mansyonn sa ‘‘the’’ ki nou ti'n siprimen en pti pe pli boner.

E ankor enn fwa pandan ki mon annan laparol e ankor enn fwa an traver, mon pe koz avek Senior Legal Officer atraver ou Mr Chair, e nou'n tonm dakor deza (Mrs Croise or mademoiselle Croise?

Madame)?

Mademoiselle Croise in dir nou pli boner ki fund of the Commission i pou ganny partou e nou vwar ki 18 (3) ek (4) sa mo i aparet.
Sa fraz i aparet, e mon krwar ki partou kot nou’n deside i pou ‘fund’ with a small (f) ek Commission with a capital C. Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Yes, Onorab Pillay ki pwen kot nou ete?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker mwan mon krwar ki nou bezwen annan, nou bezwen annan en separasyon ant proteksyon pou aksyon ki ganny fer in good faith e liability for action taken under this Act.

Akoz enn, ou liable pou ou pran en aksyon pou, en aksyon ki'n ganny fer, ki ou pa sipoze fer.
Lot ou ganny proteze pou en aksyon ki ou'n fer dan bonnfwa.

Si nou lir 18 (1), 18 (1) i koz lo en personal liability ki ou annan personnelman.

So, sa i bezwen ganny dir klerman.

Mon pe sizere nou reorganiz sa clause pou ki sa 18(1) i ava, ou ava annan 2 bout dan 18, enn ki koz lo lo protection enn ki koz liability.

Or ou met liability and protections for actions taken under this Act.

MR SPEAKER Well liability i pase la mon krwar, wi.

Liability and protection.

Si Minis i dakor avek sa?

Yes Minister.


Ok Minis in dakor so accepted.

Onorab Hoareau next one.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair nou pou bouz lo paz 15 ki napa, ki lezot keksoz in ganny agree lo la.

E 16 osi parey tou keksoz in ganny agree.

MR SPEAKER 113 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Yes Onorab Loze.

En moman.

HON JOHAN LOZE Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mon ti annan zis en konsern lo paz 16, 20 (3).


‘‘The President shall, upon recommendation of the Commission, determine the terms and conditions of service of the Chief Executive Officer’’.

Mr Speaker mon, la ki Minis i la mon zis anvi met sa pwen devan.

Be mon santi nou pou banaliz en pe tro Lofis Prezidan.

Why the Head of State of Larepiblik Sesel pou la pou determin terms and conditions their appointment of Chief Executive Officer konmsi?

for Be sa les avek quelqu’un d’autre ek the Minister.
At best annou dir the Minister.

Be pa mon Prezidan - i en pe, i nwizib sa enn Mr Speaker I am sorry.

MR SPEAKER Ok Minis ou annan pwen lo la?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair ler mon regard sa clause, the President the appointing authority.

E as the appointing authority i apwent sa dimoun lo son terms and conditions.

is usually But an pratik the terms and conditions i ganny propoze ek Prezidan e li i apwent sa dimoun lo sa bann terms and condition.
is Mwan mon regarde senpleman ki given the President the appointing authority then i zis fer sans pou ki i osi annan sa terms and, li osi determine the terms and conditions of service.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Onorab Pillay?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker.

Onorab Loze i annan en pwen, akoz nou'n ganny kondisyonnen depi sizyenm Lasanble en gran parti par Onorab Ferrari ki ti kont sa.

E Onorab Georges sa letan osi ti kont sa.

La in sanze la.
La in sanze la.

Sa zafer Prezidan apwente e set kondisyon, akoz?

PEMC i sipoze set en Remuneration Policy across bann SOEs - mon korek la?

Because that was what the work ki sa tim Ameriken in vin fer.

Be si pou annan en Renumeration Policy across SOEs, ki mannyer prezan nou lot pou determinasyon kondisyon pou CEO PEMC li menm?

annan en Pa i sipoze pe comply to en policy ki'n deza agree?

I bezwen annan en keksoz ki dir poudir having to government policy at the time.
regards 114 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 li Nou bezwen water down en pe, akoz sinon nou pou right back to where we were avan kot bann dimoun ki ganny apwente i desid zot saler, konpran?

Mon pa war personn pe koze lo lot kote laba be- MR SPEAKER Non be kontinyen ou, ou koze ou, kontan ou annan laparol.

Ok. En moman.

Order please!

Order please!

(Interruption) HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Order!

Mr Speaker mon pwen i se ki Prezidan pe fer sa lo rekomandasyon Commission.
Mwan mon krwar Commission i bezwen have regard to Government Policy at the time.

Akoz i pou bezwen comply to lezot keksoz ki an plas, akoz ou Minis Finans, ou bezwen mon krwar la ozordi, probableman dan, in the near future ou pe al set out en policy regarding remuneration across bann SOEs.

So, mon pa konnen si ou annan, si ou le met sa pou ki i ava vin anba ou purview en pti pe.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi Minis ou le adres sa, apre nou ava pran lot pwen?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Yes, Mr Chair mersi.


Onorab zis pou mwan klarifye la nou pe koz lo appointment of the Chief Executive Officer of the Commission en, pa the public enterprise.

The public enterprise li son renumeration and benefits i tonm anba seksyon 11 ki dir ‘‘The salaries, allowances, benefits and other terms and conditions of service of the members’’ non, non sorry.
this the Commission ok. Ok met parey ok-ok. Ki nou ava fer nou ava swiv parey seksyon 11 kot nou ava dir ‘shall be determined by Government’s the Remuneration Policy’.

Ok for is MR SPEAKER Ok. Onorab Georges.


HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair, Mr Chair mon krwar i mon responsabilite reprezantan koman Gouvernman dan sa Lasanble, pou reponn en alegasyon ki ler Onorab Ferrari ti dan sa Lasanble, i pa ti dakor e Onorab Georges osi ki ti dan sa Lasanble pa ti dakor avek sa zafer Prezidan i apwent en Chief Executive Officer e i donn li son manda travay.

Efektivman Mr Chair efektivman.


E si nou al lo clause 20, nou ava vwar ki mannyer nou lalit pandan sa letan ki nou'n dan long 115 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Lopozisyon, in achieve sa ki nou ti anvi.

anba Akoz en Gouvernman US Clause 20 ti pou lir ‘‘the President shall appoint the Chief Executive Officer’’.

Anba en Gouvernman LDS Clause 20 i dir ‘‘The the President shall, upon the recommendation Commission in consultation with the Minister, appoint the CEO’’.
of and Lala Mr Speaker, lala sa ki le 24 Oktob 2020 in anmennen pou Sesel.

diferans (APPLAUSE) MR SPEAKER Bon, i annan pwen sibstantif ki'n ganny mansyonnen.

Nou'n terminen avek pwen ki Minis in fer lo 23.

In kler ki sanzman in fer.

Ok Onorab Pillay ki - kot ou pe?

Son lanmen i ankor anler.

Ok Onorab Cosgrow.

HON WALLACE COSGROW Non Mr Speaker mon pwen i lo 20 (3).

Mon krwar ou ti'n ganny Lagreman dan Bills Committee kot nou ti pou sanz sa, nou ti pou dir as per Remuneration Policy.
E mon kontan in ganny dir - in ganny fer resorti ki nou met li as per Government’s the Renumeration Policy.

Akoz LOTO in fer en pwen enportan.

Nou pou al fer en Remuneration Policy pou bann, or PEMC pou fer en policy pou bann SOEs pou zot sivre akoz i annan en bon pe konplent dan lepase konmkwa poudir sakenn i regle son saler isi laba, e mon pou donn zot en Polisi pou zot swiv, me solman sa lorganizasyon ki pe oversee zot li i pa swiv the government policy.
Pou mon i mal e sanmenm sa ki nou ti dir ki i devret swiv the government policy.

E mon apresye ki sa rekomandasyon Bills Committee Mr Chair in antre ladan.

Apre Mr Chair mon krwar apre midi si nou al lo sa ki Onorab Georges in dir taler zafer swisid, mon krwar nou tou li kote isi nou pou mor akoz nou pe tro koze, laba lot kote zot tou pou ankor vivan akoz personn pa pe dir naryen.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Well ale.

Pa antre, Onorab Cosgrow sa pa dan Bill.

Onorab LOTO nou'n fini avek sa pwen.


HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker efektivman nou bezwen fini ek sa pwen akoz granmersi nou la dan US pou fer sa bann keksoz.

Akoz lot kote laba zot ankor pe 116 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 dormi mon p konnen ki pe arive.

Mr Speaker, eski nou kapab ganny, can we get the draftsperson, the representative of AG’s Office to read the clause as it will be amended with the addendum that has been made by the Minister.

Eski nou kapab ganny sa?


So that nou ganny li kler Mr Speaker so that ler i sorti i sa ki nou lentansyon.

MR SPEAKER Minis ou ki’n propoze silvouple repet sa clause an antye.

Yes Minister?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

‘‘The President shall, upon recommendation of the Commission, determine the terms and conditions of service of the Chief Executive Officer in line with the Government Remuneration Policy’.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi bokou Mr Speaker.

Onorab Georges ou note?


MR SPEAKER Wi ok tre byen.

Next point, that is done Onorab Hoareau next point.

HON JOHN HOAREAU And shall be determined by the Government Remuneration Policy.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Kote ou ete Onorab Gill?

HON CHURCHILL GILL (Off-Mic) MR SPEAKER Lo sanmenm sa enn, ok, 23.

HON CHURCHILL GILL Ya klarifikasyon lo la.


Ler nou fini pas sa Lalwa, vi ki sa lalis sa bann enterprise zot already existing, ler nou fini pas sa Lalwa nou pou annan bann dimoun ki zot, zot saler in fini determinen zot, e i annan ki zot saler pou.

MR SPEAKER Sorry i pa enterprise la nou pe koz Commission.

HON CHURCHILL GILL Uh – ok, sorry.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Onorab Hoareau.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Bon nou pou kontinyen lo paz 17 ki mon vwar tou keksoz in ganny agree.
Lo paz 18- MR SPEAKER Onorab Georges, wi.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Briyevman mon pe retourn lo paz 16, 117 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 clause 21 (j) right at the bottom.

Nou bezwen pran en desizyon koman en Lasanble si nou pou capitalize ‘Director’ Capital D oubyen en pti ‘d.
‘ Rezon ki sa i annan sa note se ki Mr Bandara in souleve se ki serten landrwa i small ‘d,’ serten landrwa i capital ‘D.’ Alors nou bezwen annan en linanimite e for the time being sa versyon in tir li capital in met li small ‘d.

‘ Me obviously se Lasanble ki pou pran en desizyon si nou anvi.

Akoz dan serten lezot landrwa, Minister par egzanp i capital M - Commissioner i capital C. Alors mon ti anvi zis demann sa kestyon.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Well mon war poudir Acting CEO in propoz capital ‘D’.
Eski zot, dan tracked version.

Eski zot aksepte sa?

Onorab Aglae.

HON EGBERT AGLAE (Off-Mic) MR SPEAKER Sa en lot.

So, is it accepted capital ‘D’?

Ok Minis i dir it goes.

Onorab, mon krwar Onorab Uranie ti’n lev lanmen avan.

HON ROCKY URANIE Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mwan mon le tourn lo pwen 21 (a).

‘’A person shall be disqualified from being appointed as Chief Executive Officer where he or she-’’ Dan plas petet met ‘‘serves as’’ met ‘‘is already’’.

Akoz ou deza en Chief Executive Officer la ou.


Ou pou ganny disqualify for being a Chief Executive Officer la ou, ou ganny disqualified for being a Chief Executive Officer.

Petet remove the ‘‘serves as’’ put ‘‘is already’’.

Si i ok ek zot.

MR SPEAKER Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.

Mon war ‘‘serves’’ i already kouver sa.

Mon pa tro war nesesite pou amande.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Wi, annefe mon krwar wi ‘‘serves’’ i dir i deza la.

Onorab Aglae.
Onorab Aglae.

HON EGBERT AGLAE Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker mwan, Mr Chair mwan mon le konn rezondet (j) mwan.

Akoz anler depi (a) ti (i) ou'n met bann kondisyon ki en dimoun i kapab ganny disqualified as to become a Chief Executive Officer.

Me lo (j) i pa neseserman eksplike pou ki bann rezon osi ki ou kapab zis prohibit en dimoun from being Director, 118 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 being concerned.
Konmsi anler ou’n set bann kondisyon ou napa problenm ou'n convicted, ou'n ou'n unsound mind, ou annan lentere personnel.

felony, ganny Be anba ki kondisyon ki ou zis dir i pa pou kapab?

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

Minis ou le adres sa?

Wi okenn lot, Onorab Pillay letan Minis pe konsidere go ahead.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Wi lentansyon, mon konpran lentansyon Gouvernman be selman pwen Onorab Aglae se ki, Minis pe extend son levantay, Gouvernman pe extend son levantay ase larz pou diskalifye serten dimoun.
ki Prezan bezwen Gouvernman mazinen an relasyon ek sa, akoz i dir prohibited to be Director.

Nou pou annan nou en limit pool of professionals ki ou pou al tonm ladan apre.

kestyon i Akoz Sesel i pti, pti li.

Sa nou problenm.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis ou pe konsider sa?

Mon sipoze pwen se ki ou pe exclude en kantite dimoun ki pou dan en kantite aktivite, ki kekfwa pa ni menm tro enportan.

Yes Minister?

kot provizyon MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab pou sa input.


Kekfwa si mon nou fer senpleman dir ‘‘is a person who is prohibit form being a - Director of a company’’ “Director of a company as decided by the Court’’ or something along these lines?

MR SPEAKER Sorry si en layman’s point of view.

Si prohibited ti aplik pou from being a Director or from taking part in the promotion.

I mean if the person is prohibited from doing these, la mon ti a konpran.

Konmsi si prohibited ki aplik pou tou lede sa kalite dimoun.

Yes, Onorab Pillay?
Yes, Onorab Pillay?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Problenm la ou'n entrodwir diferan kategori anba sa prohibition ki ou'n mete.

Ok so let’s say ou'n fini deal avek insolvency savedir obviously i pa kapab vin en Direkter, i en insolvent.

anler, So, what will be the reasons ki pou prohibit en dimoun from being a Director already?

Prezan not only ki ou pe prohibit from being li Director, from being concern or taking part in the promotion formation or management of any commercial activity.
Mon pe sey konpran ou gist of what exactly do you 119 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 want.

Konmsi ou mean en dimoun ki pa kapab fer promosyon pou en biznes, pa kapab envit lenvestisman pou en biznes.

It is kind of wide.

So, I do not know exactly ki ou pe rode la?

MR SPEAKER Minister ou pou adres sa?

Yes Minister.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair, ler nou'n diskite lo panel nou santi ki nou kapab remove 21 (j) akoz sa ki i pe sey fer mon krwar in fini ganny kouver anba bann lezot clause 21.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Ok so delete (j).

Members aksepte?

I 6er 15 nou'n asize pou 2erdtan petet Manm ti ava prefere nou pran en short break 15 minit e apre nou ava repran 6er edmi.

Agreed?

Nou ava pran en poz la nou ava rezwenn 6er edmi.

Thank you.
Thank you.

(BREAK) MR SPEAKER Mon a zis met a latansyon bann Manm ki teknisyen in advise mwan ki nou batri i kapab komans run out.

So i en lot rezon pour speed up.

Me… batri nou microphone… batri nou microphone e osi nou batri personnel.

Nou ava kontinyen me selman mon pour dir bann Manm ki nou pour focus lo bann amendment, ki mannyer regilasyon i demann nou.

E nou pa pour antre dan bann diskisyon filozofi ki external lo soz lo la.
Nou pou focus lo amendment we accept the amendment, or we don’t accept it.

Minis kot ou - wi Minis.?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair zis to go back lo en pwen ki nou ti pe diskite avan break ki mon’n konsilte avek Onorab Georges avek Onorab Hoareau.

21(j) rather than delete ki nou pe propoze ki i read koumsa, “is a person who is prohibited from being a Director of a company by the Court”.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Setou.

Ok. Ok. Manm accepted.

Ok tre byen.

Onorab Hoareau kontinyen.


HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair nou'n ariv lo paz 17.

So mon vwar lo la ki tou keksoz in ganny agree, mon pa konnen si i annan okenn kestyon.

MR SPEAKER Sorry, nou pour evit bann kestyon diskite.

Yes Onorab Herminie.

120 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 HON WILBERT HERMINIE Mersi Mr Speaker.
Lo paz 17 24(1) partou dan sa seksyon i “The Chief Executive met Officer”, me solman 24(1) i lir “The Office of a Chief Executive Officer”, mon pe zis demande ki rezondet la?

Si partou i “The” si i korek?

MR SPEAKER Sorry Onorab sanmenm sa ki mon fek dir i pa'n notifye koman en amendment, e Minis ou kapab zis konfirmen poudir i korek?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Thank you, Mr Chair.

Wi nou konfirmen i ok. Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Ok.

Thank you.

Onorab Hoareau.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Ok nou al lo paz 18.


Lo paz 18 25(c), “be the accounting officer of the funds the of Commission” ankor.

Mon krwar in agree.

Yeah,.

Ok?

MR SPEAKER Sorry mon pa'n- HON JOHN HOAREAU So we continue again… the Commission.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Wi Mr Speaker.

Akoz the accounting officer is not the accounting officer of the funds The of the accounting officer the officer accounting the Commission.

CEO officer accounting the the that Commission, nomenclature.
Sa i lafason ki nou defini bann accounting officers.

I pa only for the funds of the Commission.

is of is of is MR SPEAKER So… HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Akoz anler i dir “i manage and direct day-to-day the i accounting activities”.

So the Commission.

officer of Pwen final.

Mon krwar Onorab Loizeau i dakor ek sa enn li non?

MR SPEAKER Anfen mon - byen mon krwar poudir pwen Onorab Pillay i lozik.

I en accounting officer, i pa zis pour fund.

Onorab Hoareau Manm ou kapab aksepte sa?


HON JOHN HOAREAU Mon ti a demann panel petet pour pronons zot lo la.

MR SPEAKER Ok Onorab.

Onorab Pillay ou pe kestyonn sa amendment?

MR SPEAKER Panel?

Minis?

121 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mon pa vwar okenn problenm ek 25(c) akoz efektivman ki i pe dir se ki the CEO son responsabilite, is to be the accounting officer in terms of budget ki ganny appropriated to the entity.
So I don’t see a problem there.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Ok.

Thank you.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair … MR SPEAKER Sorry Onorab Pillay.

Ou ankor annan ou lanmen - sa nou kapab settle sa?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Chairman.

Mr Chairman tou bann antite ler Lasanble Nasyonal i fer son oversight, sa dimoun ki vini i accounting officer of sa antite.

MR SPEAKER Wi.
MR SPEAKER Wi.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY En PS i accounting officer of son departman e i accounting officer for the fund of the departman and everything else.

MR SPEAKER Wi.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mon pe vwar la nou pe kree en lot kondisyon kot nou dir li accounting officer of the funds.

Mon pwen i se ki for the purpose of oversight Lasanble Nasyonal, sa dimoun i devret accounting the Commission.

officer of Now, look mon konnen mon pa ganny sa luxury of Minis vin diskit ek mwan parey in fer taler.
i responsab Me selman mon ti a kontan i pran konsyans ki sa sa dimoun Komisyon.

E i pa pour fer okenn konfizyon avek son Chairman of the Board.

La nou pe koz sa Komisyon as an antite.

MR SPEAKER Sorry.

Wi be selman, be selman… HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mon ti a propoze delete “of the funds of the Commission” e pour zis dir “accounting officer of the Commission”.

MR SPEAKER Well.

Mon pa vwar ki i fer telman diferans, if he is the accounting officer, it applies the with Commission.

Minis?
Minis?

Ok Minis in fini dir poudir i korek ete.

Nou a mannyer kontinyen.

funds the of i 122 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Chair.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Nou kontinyen lo paz 19.

Osi nou'n agree lo paz 20 osi nou'n agree lo tou, wi nou'n agree lo tou.

Paz 21 osi menm parey.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Sorry Mr Chair lo 20 Acting CEO in lev enn pti pwen lo 27(e), 27(e).
E in dir, “carry out on-site and or off-site investigations of the public enterprise” but it should be – it should go further, it should say, “of the public enterprise as well as officials, event or transactions”.

inspections Mon krwar nou bezwen regard enn pti pe sa.

So, kekfwa nou devret dan sa ka remove “of a public enterprise”, so that’s its “general on-site inspections or and off-site investigations” pour pli fasil.

MR SPEAKER Minis.

HON BERNARD GEORGES 27(e).


27(e) reads chapeau, “the Commission shall have the carry out on- power to - (e) site and off-site inspections or investigations deemed necessary for the purpose of carrying out its functions;” as The proposed amendments is “investigations of a public enterprise”.

But the margin, the note says it should be wider than that, it should be investigation not only of the public enterprise but also of any officials or transaction carried out, eksetera.
So mwan mon pe propoze to come, to get in line with what this acting CEO is proposing that we removed “the proposed insertion of a public enterprise” so that a bit wider… MR SPEAKER Mon vwar ou lentansyon Minis i ok avek sa.

So that’s accepted si Manm i aksepte?

Onorab Hoareau.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Bon nou kontinyen lo paz 21.

Again, agreed.

Lo paz 22 i annan for lo anba clause consistency 29(a).

demann en MR SPEAKER Yes, one minute.

Let’s!

Wi Onorab Hoareau fini ek ou pwen.


Onorab Hoareau fini ek ou pwen kot ou'n arive 29.

Ou'n fini?

HON JOHN HOAREAU Yes 29 its agreed.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Onorab Pillay where are you please?

123 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Chairman.

Mr Chairman sa 28 i about son reporting obligations which includes reporting obligations towards Lasanble Nasyonal.
Now mon vwar ki dir “With respect to the fiscal risks at the end of each calendar year, or within such longer period as the Minister may approve”, me prezan sa rapor i annan en submission ki bezwen ganny fer to the National Assembly as per the PFM Act Regulation 25(e).

Me si Minis pe approve en longer period, and that means dan sa rapor pa pour ariv kot Lasanble Nasyonal within the said period, that it is given.

Ou pe konpran mwan la Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER Well mon vwar kote ou pe soz.


Mon a les Minis adrese mon pa tro konnen ki lentansyon.

Minis?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mr Chair mersi.

Nou pe zis regard enn pti kou, donn nou de segonn.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Yes Minister?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Si nou zis senpleman.

Ki clause ou ti pe dir 28?


MR SPEAKER Sorry Onorab Pillay ou kapab state egzakteman ki sanzman ou pe propoze koumsa… HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Ok mwan Minis in vin avek en policy initiative ki sa rapor fiscal risk ki sipoze vin at the end of each calendar year.

Prezan Minis pe include en proviso kot i kapab osi extend sa period within which sa report i ganny submitted.
to Me tou sa bann rapor anba 28 i then has to be submitted the National Assembly as provided for in relation to 25(e) of the PFM Act.

Sa ki mwan mon pe dir se ki, there should not be a longer period for the report.

The report should be submitted within that calendar year for the fiscal risk of that calendar year and then compiled and submitted to the National Assembly.
MR SPEAKER Ok. HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Akoz then ou pou annan en rapor ki pour ganny submitted without the fiscal risk e ki Lasanble pa pour annan en picture konplet pozisyon sa 124 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 SOE which is not what we want.

MR SPEAKER Savedir pour conflict avek PF.

Public Finance Management Act.

Minis ou le pronons ou lekor lo la?

Yes Minister?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Si zis nou azout en sa.

“In line with the Regulation 25(e) of the PFM, 2014”.
MR SPEAKER Yes.

Propoze kote ou pour insert sa klerman Minis?

Koumsa nou kapab fini avek li.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN So, 28(1) With respect – non- sorry 21.

MR SPEAKER 28(1).

enterprises, MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Ok 28(1) “With respect to the fiscal risks analysis report for public the Commission shall, after the end of each year, or within such the longer period as Minister may approve in line with Regulation 25(e) of the PFM, Regulation 2014”.

MR SPEAKER Ok that’s proposed.

Manm i aksepte sa?


Thank you.

Onorab Hoareau next.

Chair.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Nou kontinyen lo paz 23, napa nanryen lo la.

24.

Wi 24 i annan clause 35(1) ki dir “The may direct the Minister Commission to investigate”.

So nou pe demande what about the responsible Minister?

Akoz anvi ki the report is submitted to the responsible Minister as well as the Minister, so nou pe gete ki si la nou kapab met osi en inclusion, “the responsible Minister”?
MR SPEAKER Yes, Minister?

pe MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mon krwar kekfwa ti annan tro bokou dimoun lord Commission i vin en problenm.

What I suggest is the Minister or the responsible Minister in consultation with the Minister may direct.

donn Because you don’t want 13,15 Minis pe donn lord the Commission.

You want a focal point, ki vini.

So if you extend it, parey ou pe propoze, ou pe donn tro bokou dimoun pour donn lord the Commission.
So... MR SPEAKER 125 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Ok.

So i annan en propozisyon la.

Nou a koz lo sa propozisyon silvouple.

Onorab Cosgrow.

HON WALLACE COSGROW Mr Speaker mwan mon pwennvi lo la i se ki si ou pe get part, sa part ki nou pe koz lo la i special investigation by the Commission.

So mwan mon krwar the Minister i reste korek akoz zis i the Minister of the Commission.
Savedir nou pe koz sa Minis ki annan pouvwar lo sa Komisyon, akoz investigation it's powers of that Commission.

special E sa Minister mon pa krwar nou bezwen extend li to the responsible Minister osi.

Sa i mon pwennvi Mr Speaker.

Mon pa konnen ki Onorab, Onorab Hoareau i panse.

MR SPEAKER In other words, ou pe propoze ki i reste mannyer i ete.

Yes Onorab Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mon le met devan Minis ki i bezwen konsider koriz en anomaly ki pe crop up dan bann Lalwa.
Akoz as and when ki Gouvernman kontinyen annan bann policies e bann circulars regarding appointments, bann Lalwa i dir en keksoz parkont diferan.

i Anba Seksyon 32(1) sa Komisyon i sipoze annan pouvwar pour apwent tou bann zofisye ki li i anvi, i krwar i neseser.

Be mon krwar i bezwen annan en proviso ki bezwen in line with Government Policy.

Akoz then that would mean ki sa circular would apply to it.

Otherwise ou pour ganny sa discrepancy ki egziste.


Akoz as it stands la sa Komisyon i sipoze annan pouvwar pour li fer sa bann apwentman li.

Me ou annan en Government Policy as it relates to and fer recruitment.

Ki ganny atraver en sirkiler ki ganny issued by the Public Service Bureau.

appointments MR SPEAKER So, eskiz mwan Onorab mon pa konpran.

Ou'n sorti lo 35(1) la?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Wi akoz nou’n sot clause 32.

MR SPEAKER Ou'n retourn lo 32.

Ok?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY I pa pour long sa.


MR SPEAKER Wi.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY 126 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 statutory Akoz.

Sa ki nou bezwen fer se ki nou pa kree anomaly dan bann Lalwa.

Akoz en Lalwa i sipoze en - donn en pouvwar en en Komisyon.

En statutory power i trump en policy Mr Speaker.

Akoz baze lo zizman Ziz Govinden, en policy napa menm lefe ki en Lalwa.

power MR SPEAKER Be ki propozisyon sanzman ou le fer la?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mon'n dir Government Policy.


in line with MR SPEAKER Dan clause 32(1).

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY “Shall have appoint as necessary Government Policy”.

the power to it may deem line with in MR SPEAKER Ok Minis ki ou mazinen lo la?

Yes Ms Croise?

OF DIRECTOR THE STATE EXECUTIVE OFFICE SECRETARY OF IRENE CROISE Mr Chair we proposed to add “in line with Government Policy”.

MR SPEAKER Ok.

I ganny propoze.

Manm?

No objection?

Ok nou a retourn kot Onorab Hoareau, ou ti'n ariv lo 35.
Onorab Loze ou lo 35 ou?

to perform HON JOHAN LOZE Mr Speaker, sorry.

Mon ti annan zis a small caution mon ti anvi raise lo 36(a), “recruit, hire, or acquire any resources required an investigation;”.

Mon zis anvi raise en pti caution to the Minister lo any is very broad resources.

It opened-ended e annou pa bliye ACCS in vin pran R63milyon avek nou lannen pase.

So just a word of caution Mr Speaker.

acquire MR SPEAKER Minis eski ou krwar “acquire” i an danze?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.


In practice e recruit, hire, or acquire any resources obviously you need to have the funds.

So si ou napa funds ou pa kapab go above what you’ve been funded, so mon konpran konsern Onorab Loze.

Me selman mon pe mazinen in practice, at the end of the day se Minister Finans ki pour deside in terms of resources that you will get.
So the investigator will recruit, hire or acquire resours in line 127 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 avek son Lagreman bidzeter ki i annan ek Minister Finans.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Mon krwar Onorab Loze in aksepte.

So nou’n fini avek 35.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Nou pa ankor fini avek 35 en i inconsistency ki pour arive akoz… annan akoz MR SPEAKER Ale.
HON JOHN HOAREAU Si the Minister ki initiate en special investigation the report should be to the Minister be akoz ler ou pe get dan 36,37 ki bor sa investigation i ganny reported to.

Nou vwar poudir i met responsible Minister.

ki initiate So either nou choose one or the other.

Si nou pour, si Minister son investigation.

So the report should come to him.

If it's a responsible Minister, then it responsible the shall be Minister.

So mon bezwen en klarifikasyon lo la.

MR SPEAKER Ok. silvouple.


Ale Minis adrese MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.

Mon lopinyon lo la se ki i devret “the Minister” akoz parey mon'n dir boner, nou pa kapab annan diferan dimoun ki pe donn lenstriksyon for special investigation.

Si i annan en responsible Minister ki annan en konsern on the SOE, then, on the public enterprise then i refer to the Minister ki i li i initiate the special investigation.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Ok Minis i an faver ki sa.

Onorab Georges.
Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair wi mon konpran, me lafason ki'n ganny drafte if the Minister i initiates anba 37, rapor ganny donnen the responsible Minister.

to initiate, rapor Mon krwar se sa ki Onorab pe demande.

So Minis i al kot i responsible Minister.

Si responsible Minister i anvi initiate, i al kot Minis i dir initiate.

Me rapor i vin kot responsible Minister.

I annan en dekalaz.
I annan en dekalaz.

So in order to do away with that, nou bezwen dir ki rapor comes back to the Minister.

But the problem is, in practice, Minis ki define as Minis Finans i anvi investigate en keksoz dan Minister Transpor oubyen dan SCAA, ki tonm anba Minister Transpor.

How will the Minister of Transport feel if the Minister go 128 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 over his head and initiate a thing, an investigation and the report goes back to the Minister of Finance.
Eski pa pour annan en may zanbek la?

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Yes Minister?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.

Mon krwar nou bezwen sey antisip tou sort sityasyon ki kapab arive.

I kapab ariv en sityasyon kot en responsible Minister pa neseserman pe akt dan en lentere in terms of the fiscal risk to Government.

So this is why the Minister ki li Minis Finans i annan en overarching mandate to look at fiscal risk should be able to go over the responsible Minister.
mon krwar reported So for the purpose of this kot the inconsistency i egziste se ki the shall be Minister.

Prezan as a matter of practice the Minister then, can inform the responsible Minister of the findings or the President.

I think in practice this is to the way it should work.

MR SPEAKER Yes Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Full dakor Mr Chair.

Full dakor ki se koumsa.


So, but what is “the wrong with saying the responsible Minister or Minister may initiate an investigation and the report will go to the Minister or the responsible Minister as the case may be?”.

I permet sa overarching overview, me i permet osi en responsible Minister, demann en special investigation dan en ka ki pa vreman en fiscal risk issue.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mon kapab reponn Onorab.


The only problem that I see, I see where you’re coming from se ki, the investigation should not only be the Minister to initiating it.

My only concern is from a functional perspective, ou pour annan diferan Minis that could theoretically donn direksyon Komisyon.

limited So maybe the compromise would be, responsible the Minister through the Minister responsible, i fer sa.

MR SPEAKER Ok.

Yes, Onorab Pillay ou pwen?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker se sa pwen ki nou ti pe fer taler, ki kree en konfli.

Mwan mon konpran ki Minis i bezwen annan en Minis ki responsab pour maintain en serten lord e direksyon.

129 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 initiate E sa ki Onorab Georges pe dir i fer sans, dan le sans ki sa responsible Minister osi, i en devret kapab investigation.

E ler sa rapor ki sa in responsible Minister initiate i vini, i pa kapab al solely kot the Minister for Finance.
I bezwen osi retourn kot the responsible Minister par egzanp si Minis pour Transpor en in lenvestigasyon lo SPTC e i le sanz keksoz dan SPTC.

fer Rapor pa kapab vin zis kot ou.

Rapor i bezwen vin kot li osi pour li kapab fer son travay regarding SPTC.

Ou konpran?

So i bezwen annan en mechanism ki sa rapor i al kot sa dimoun ki pour fer sa diferans ek sa rapor.

Prezan dezyenmman Mr Speaker, I annan en pwen ki nou bezwen konsidere osi.
Lefe ki nou pe donn sa Komisyon sa pouvwar e sa sa pour resours envestigasyon, nou pe cut out en antite enportan, from initiating en lenvestigasyon lo SOE si i santi i neseser annan en lenvestigasyon.

E sa se Lasanble Nasyonal.

fer Akoz la as it stands prezan the National Assembly napa en fason pour li inisye lenvestigasyon fodre absoliman, ki Komisyon pe ganny en lord avek Minis, ouswa Lasanble Nasyonal pe demann Komisyon, nou napa akoz en interface apard ki ler nou ganny sa rapor.
- Unless nou azoute ki dan Finance e Public Accounts Committee may not necessarily according to the law, because what we’ve seen is that dan serten ka dan bann Lalwa, FPAC pa kapab initiate lenvestigasyon without going through of Finance.

the Minister So that is the issue ki nou bezwen sort out.

Akoz i annan en point of call ki egziste dan lirarsi Gouvernman.

E ou pa kapab si ou - Lasanble pa kapab overstep son power pour li o - sirtou ler en legal sa i ganny met an plas.
Ou kapab fors li atraver Konstitisyon but is that the way we want to go all the time?

Akoz it stands la as Oditer Zeneral nou ti entrodwi en provizyon pour donn li, pour ki i kapab fer serten lenvestigasyon behalf Lasanble Nasyonal.

Petet sa i en bridge ki nou kapab cross pli tar, me annou adres sa problenm rapor.
lo E prezan mon ti a kontan Minis, eski ou pare pour konsidere ki sa rapor, sa lenvestigasyon i osi ganny tabled, oubyen i ganny submit to the Finance Public Account Lasanble Committee Nasyonal?

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER 130 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Minis.

Wi.

Ok. MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.
Mersi Onorab.

Mon agree ki the Minister can initiate en special investigation or the responsible Minister in consultation with the Minister can initiate and the report would be submitted to the then Minister, which will circulate a the responsible Minister.

copy to Mon krwar nou achieve the same objective si nou sey, nou kapab drafte sa Polisi intention.

On your second point the report being made to the National Assembly.

Mon pa vwar akoz i sipoze annan okenn problenm, lo la.
I annan en provizyon si mon pa tronpe for the submission of sa dan sa Lalwa.

Me si napa mon met li la.

Mon napa lobzeksyon ki sa i ganny submitted to the FPAC.

MR SPEAKER Wi.

I sanble mwan nou annan en wording en pe konplike la, pour spesifye.

Minis ou pour kapab pran - sorry mon a deal ek lanmen ki'n ganny leve avan.

Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair mon ti sa vin pe lamannman.

propoz MR SPEAKER HON BERNARD GEORGES Pour nou kapab move on.
Mon ti vin propoze ki dan 35(1) nou dir the “The Minister or the responsible Minister or responsible in consultation with the Minister may direct the Commission to investigate”, eksetera Minister MR SPEAKER Ok. HON BERNARD GEORGES Epi ler nou ariv lo 37.

Nou fer, nou mete partou dan 37(5) - sorry 37 non, non, non tyonbo, tyonbo 37(5).

37(4), 37(5) ek 37(6) nou to “the pa met Minister” “responsible Minister”.
limited nou So either the Minister or responsible the Minister Minister in consultation with the Minister or the Commission under 35 i kapab initiate en special investigation.

Me apard from the one initiated by the Commission, ler Minister or responsible Minister i initiate, the report comes back to the Minister, so that the Minister can then send it down to the responsible Minister.

Sa ki mon pe propoze Mr Chair for us to be able to move on.

Onorab Pillay.

MR SPEAKER Yes please.

Onorab Pillay?


131 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Wi Mr Speaker.

Eski anba 37(6) ou pe konsidere poudir “shall communicate the report of an the investigation Minister”, apre ou bezwen azoute “who shall”, ki pour bezwen avek li responsible Minister.

donn to E prezan mon ti a kontan ou azoute … “report at the end and shall submit a copy of the report National Assembly”.
Which means a copy of the report will go to the FPAC, atraver ou Speaker.

the to MR SPEAKER Wi.

Mon krwar Minis in dir poudir kekfwa sa pa neseser.

Me selman it doesn’t exclude it, it’s a guarantee a safety.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY I neseser akoz an relasyon avek en lenvestigasyon nou napa pouvwar pour resevwar sa rapor.

MR SPEAKER Ok. ek relasyon HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY An rapor performans fiscal risks, nou annan pouvwar akoz 25(e) anba PFM i relate zis lo rapor performans.
I pa pour relate avek en lenvestigasyon.

MR SPEAKER Minis, wi?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Speaker.

I mean si mon pa tronpe the existing legislation already provides for request any to the FPAC from documentation Government.

that perspective, mon krwar zot annan akse.

From Me mon napa okenn lobzeksyon ki rapor i ganny submitted ek FPAC but the power of the FPAC already exist in reality.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Ok.

Yes?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Ok nou pa dwell lo la, zis pour mwan eksplike.
Anba nou provizyon ki nou, nou annan nou kapab initiate, be nou pa pour resevwar ler i pe ganny fer.

Sa i en nouvo provizyon i pe ganny ki mannyer entrodwir an relasyon ek lenvestigasyon.

Se pour sa rezon, vi ki i en nouvo provizyon mon pe propoze ki nou fer en submission of the copy of the investigation to the FPAC.

Akoz nou'n fini enkli FPAC as being able to call in the executive officer e bann lezot dimoun ki responsab pour sa antite.
Se pour sa rezon ki mon pa konnen si 132 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Onorab Georges i devret zis re- regard ou to section 6, 36-31-36 sorry is it 37(6)?

lamannman Akoz se li ki dir kote rapor i ganny submitted.

E si ou kapab relir ou lamannman silvouple avek ou permisyon Mr Chairman.

MR SPEAKER 6- 37(6).

HON BERNARD GEORGES Wi.

Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair mon 37(6) i nou ava zis tir “or responsible Minister, as the case may be” e i ava lir, “The shall Commission communicate the report of an investigation to the Minister or the public the Board of enterprise” “for implementation”.

eksetera Well I don’t know that it should be “all the Board” it should be “and the Board”.

Presumably “and the Board”.

So that’s it, and then prezan Lasanble i kapab call up en rapor at any time.
MR SPEAKER Ok, Onorab Pillay nou bezwen terminen.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Wi e mon pe propoze ki prezan at the end, “for implementation of the recommendations in the report’’ ok,’’ of the public enterprise or the Board and the Minister shall cause a copy, shall submit a copy of the report to the Finance and Public Account Committee”.

MR SPEAKER Minis ou dakor avek sa?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair mon pa vwar okenn lobzeksyon.


Solman parey mon dir, mon santi poudir the Assembly already zot annan access for … HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY (Off-Mic) MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mr Speaker.

Mr Chair mon napa okenn lobzeksyon.

MR SPEAKER Ok nou ava aksepte sa.

To be able to say…Onorab Georges?

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mr Chair mon vwar en problenm la mwan.

Akoz I don’t think and I stand to be corrected, mon krwar pa i annan okenn Lalwa ki dir ki en rapor would be submitted to a Committee of the Assembly.
The - usually, it’s submitted to the Assembly.

apre E i disseminate li dan son Komite and I stand to be corrected.

Me mon pa rapel, ki annan okenn Lasanble 133 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 lenstans kot nou kapab anvoy - kot Gouvernman i kapab anvoy rapor direkteman kot en Komite including the FPAC.

E mwan mon annan en rezervasyon ki okenn sa bann special investigation reports i vin devan Lasanble.

Some of them might be, might contain information, privileged eksetera.
Mon pa pe demeaned nou rol - nou annan toultan en rol oversight.

Me mon pa konnen si nou rol oversight i al, i extend to receiving all the reports special investigation.

Mersi.

all of MR SPEAKER Nou bezwen terminen lo la.

Onorab Pillay fer ou pwen.

Si Minis i santi poudir its already covered nou a les… HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker mwan mon Chairman FPAC and I am telling you it’s not covered.
Akoz avek initiating a report, nou deza annan ample provisions e Konstitisyon avek nou Terms of Reference pour fer li, menm anba nou Standing Orders.

relasyon an Nou pe entrodwir en nouvo provizyon pour annan en special investigation par en antite ki pour ganny resours pour fer sa lenvestigasyon ki FPAC napa.

Zis parey Oditer Zeneral, sa antite pour kapab fer rekomandasyon prezan avek bann law enforcement agency ki Oditer Zeneral pa kapab fer e i pa fer, dan most cases.

Prezan ki nou pe vin lo la nou.


Nou pe dir poudir pour avoid sa sityasyon kot en rapor i ganny disseminate partou dan Lasanble e ki i sorti, ou submit li to the Committee, which is already anba en - i deza annan en protokol ki mannyer i tret lenformasyon.

Committee Now si Onorab Georges i legzanp par egzanp le en an Defense relasyon avek Lalwa SIS - Seychelles Intelligences Service Act.

I resevwar rapor SIS direk.

Ok it’s in the law.


You know i dan Lalwa SIS e ki'n kree sa kondisyon pour sa Komite resevwar sa rapor.

So sa ki mon pe zis demande se ki nou enkli – now, si i le submit rapor to the Speaker ki le disseminate apre, mon napa problenm me selman ou bezwen annan en landrwa.
Akoz par egzanp, as far as i know dan bann pei Commonwealth Public Accounts Committee, dan tou lamazorite pei Commonwealth, i ganny akse ek okenn special investigation ki pe ganny fer, an relasyon avek financial issues, oubyen risk issues that relates antite Gouvernman.

bann en to 134 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 PAC par la Mon a donn ou en egzanp legzanp Westminster pe investigate konpannyen rail.
Ok. Zot in ganny en special investigation report fer par en dimoun ki'n ganny apwente.

So nou napa nanryen pour kasyet.

Sa ki nou kapab annan akoz anba National Assembly Privileges and Immunities Act, i si en Manm Lasanble disseminate lenformasyon ki'n ganny donn li, donn avek li dan en fason konfidansyel, ou Mr Speaker ou annan pouvwar pour ou met serten sanksyon lo sa Manm Lasanble.

So I don’t see where the problem is.

Unless Gouvernman i annan keksoz i le kasyet.

MR SPEAKER Minis, wi.


MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mon’n ekout en pe diskisyon from LGB and LOTO.

Sel difikilte ki mon pe vwar la, se i pour serten annan investigation dan report which will have certain commercial aspect, ok?

E serten sa bann issues i annan bann non-disclosure.

Mon pe mazinen ki mannyer nou akse Lasanble Nasyonal, legislature avek sa bann investigation, at the same time safeguarding kapab donn bann commercial agreements ki egziste.
So sa kekfwa enn pti gin sa dilemma ki nou annan la in terms of, ki mannyer sa access is given.

Whether is given to the the Speaker Speaker and would be, guided in terms of serten direktiv ki'n gannyen kote from konfidansyalite lenformasyon, ki mannyer i ganny donnen.

Minis lo Sa mon krwar i en keksoz ki nou bezwen deside… MR SPEAKER bezwen, mon Bon nou konsernen ki i en pwen sibstansyel, ki sanz en pe direksyon e ki nou napa en amendment ki nou pe soz lo la.

Onorab Pillay?
Onorab Pillay?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker mon'n propoze amendment.

Ou konnen nou problenm ki nou pa pe realize… MR SPEAKER Ok. HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY ..se ki napa landrwa ki dir poudir oubyen Lasanble, FPAC or whatever Committee ki pour ganny en purview pour regard SOEs in the future.. MR SPEAKER Ok. 135 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY …pour konnen si i annan en special investigation.
E prezan pouvwar donn nou Gouvernman pour fer en special investigation ki kapab brush under the carpet.

pe Akoz there’s no intention pour fer special investigation public.

I pa pour dir - I pa dir ou anywhere, where the special investigation can be made public.

In fact... MR SPEAKER En substantial amendment ki mon pa... not HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY It's substantial a amendment Mr Speaker.
What is the problem of submitting the report of a special investigation to the National Assembly, kan Oditer Zeneral i fer en special investigation e i submit en rapor National the to Assembly?

What the is problem?

MR SPEAKER Wi be… HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Ou vwar.

Se sa nou issue, nou issue se ki... MR SPEAKER Non-Minis.

Minis entrodwir en i annan lot soz.

Se si commercial agreement avek serten antite ki sa i bezwen antre dan rapor.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Wi be Mr Speaker.


Anba National Assembly Privileges and Immunities Act.

I dir ou klerman si ou'n resevwar en rapor ki annan lenformasyon ki konfidansyel by their nature secret, ou pa kapab devwale koman en Manm Lasanble.

Ou pou pe - ou pou - it is grounds for you to be, to be sanctioned.

Ou konpran?

Ou deza annan en provizyon ki sa.

So akoz nou pa pe trust provizyon Lasanble ki Nasyonal i annan vizavi Manm e nou le kasyet si nou pe initiate en special investigation in the future?
MR SPEAKER Byen.

Ok. Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mr Chair mersi.

Mon konsern taler in en pe ganny adrese par Minis.

E mon konsern se sa, se annan ki Lasanble nou oversight over Government.

Me nou napa oversight over entities in which Government has a stake.

Nou napa sa oversight.

E se sa problenm.

E akoz nou napa, nou kapab annan en oversight lo Minis Finans, akoz in invest dan serten antite.
Me nou kapab - nou napa oversight lo lafason ki sa bann antite i run 136 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 zot lekor.

Because government is only a shareholder in those entities.

Government is not the owner of those entities and it's not-it's not gover….

E se sa mon - mon pa konnen i vin tar, san ki nou’n ganny en sans regard bann lenplikasyon.

And this is - mon pe zis raise sa, koman en konsern.

MR SPEAKER Mon krwar sa i montre ki dir i en pwen ase konplike.
Si i devret apply dan sa ka.

So short of an amendment mon sipoze ki nou les li mannyer i ete e nou kontinyen.

i annan Wi be i pa en amendment.

i en Mon pe sizere ki amendment, consequential akoz sa bann konplikasyon.

I annan - pour Manm desid lo la, i pour bezwen - nou pour bezwen antre dan en deba, ase konsekan.

Yes?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker, ou, ou Chairman Lasanble and you are the President of the National Assembly and the Speaker of the National Assembly all rolled into one.
E this is a ki democratic sipoze lezot lenstitisyon demokratik dan tou pei.

institution, on par ek Maurice i annan en gro problenm avek Bill Special Purpose Vehicles e sanmenm sa ki pe fer larzan ale.

Akoz son Parlman pa pe kapab al to the extent of being able to fer oversight lo sa ki Onorab Georges in dir.

Be ladan nou'n kree en kondisyon pour ki sa CEO ki pour aparet devan FPAC.

Right?

But on what basis?

There has to be a basis and the point that I’m making.
Ou pe koz mwan – Savedir mon pour vot lo resours, mon pour vot lo resours pour fer en special investigation me selman mon pa pour ganny drwa konn rezilta sa special investigation.

What is this?

Ou le dir mwan koman Manm Lasanble nou pa konsernen ek sa?

And in fact, Mr Speaker I’ll raise you something else.
Lasanble sa Dan Prezidan Larepiblik li menm, an relasyon avek rapor, avek Kontra ki ti annan pou fer avek FIU., i ti fer sa pwen, i ti dir poudir napa lenformasyon ki sipoze by their nature secret an sa ki konsern Lasanble Nasyonal, en pwen ki ti ganny siporte par Onorab Basil Hoareau.

Akoz dan performans son fonksyon Lasanble Nasyonal, i annan menm pouvwar ki Lakour Siprenm.

But that is only si mon konnen i annan en special investigation.
137 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Mon pare pour rest my case si i annan en provizyon ki nou kapab mete ki FPAC i ganny enformen, ki i annan en special investigation which is being conducted.

I’ll stop at that.

Mon ava aret la, koumsa i ava donn mwan, nou ava ganny en compromise.

initiate Ou pa le donn mwan rapor, at least mon konnen ou'n special investigation ki mon kapab demann ou, what was the special of outcome investigation?

the en MR SPEAKER Wi.


But my point is… HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY But this is not consequential Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER …lefe ki nou annan tou sa bann diskisyon i prouve ki poudir nou pe koz lo en pwen ki konsekan, ki consequential.

Se pour sa ki mon ganny difikilte lo ki mannyer nou pour prosede.

So mon pour les Minis fer dernyen soz, si i kapab adres ou dernyen pwen ki ou'n leve e apre nou pour bezwen move on.

Minis?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair parey ou'n dir i en kestyon ki sa fer nou nou bann ler lamannman bezwen regard son lenplikasyon, e 7er en kar diswar i, nou tou nou pa dan en leta lespri kot nou vreman pe comprehend tou bann lenplikasyon lamannman ki nou fer.

So at this point, mon retisan pour anmenn en lamannman, ki kapab annan serten lenplikasyon ki nou pa pe konpran pour lemoman.
I en lamannman ki kekfwa dan fitir nou kapab anmennen ler nou'n vreman diskit li dan en dele letan ki apropriye.

Mersi.

annefe.

Sorry, MR SPEAKER Ok sorry Onorab Pillay.

Then the text i bezwen stand, si nou aksepte sa.

Ok Onorab Hoareau, kontinyen please.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair zis pour recap enn pti pe 35(1) i lir koumsa “The Minister or the responsible Minister through the Minister may direct the Commission to investigate any matter relating to the affairs of a public enterprise”.
“Any reported by Apre anba 37(5) i lir koumsa, criminal offences the investigator to the Commission shall be immediately reported to the Minister”, nou pe tir sa bout “as the case may be”, i 138 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 kontinyen “and relevant law enforcement agencies”.

Ok. i 6 lir koumsa, “The shall Commission communicate the report of an investigation to the Minister the Board of public and enterprise for implementation of the recommendations in the report”, full stop.
MR SPEAKER Sa wording.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Ok. MR SPEAKER Onorab Pillay nou pa pour kapab retourn lo sa pwen.

Yes.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Nou ale.

Nou ale Mr Speaker.

Nou al lo… MR SPEAKER Wi?

ti pe propoz HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Onorab en Porice lamannman ek mwan la.

Mr Speaker mon le ganny en klarifikasyon;- only criminal, only criminal matters pour ganny the submitted relevant enforcement agencies, dan sa rapor.

Ok?

to to But what happens those matters that are not criminal?
To those matters that are administrative?

Ok?

Ki i annan pou fer avek functional issues within the SOE, par egzanp al – parey zot in dir, zot fek koz lo Air Seychelles.

Now mon pa pe koz submit a report the National Assembly to mwan.

Who else knows about this now?

Personn.

Nobody else knows.

The clause is a restricted clause, pour Gouvernman contain en keksoz within Gouvernman.

Now I am not asking to submit it to the National Assembly.
I’m talking to the Minister, akoz will be on his watch ki sa i arive.

to There is no other outlet, any criminal offences reported the by investigator the Commission be reported.

Now immediately nou pe koz criminal offences.

But who votes for the budget of the Commission?

Lasanble Nasyonal.

shall Non-mon pa pe retourn lo rapor mwan.

Sa ki mon pe retourn lo la se le fe ki nou pe koz lo zis criminal offences.

Me what about lezot keksoz?


I dir… MR SPEAKER Non krwar dan lezot clause i annan prosedir pour raport back to the Board and the Commission to take it up.

Mon'n lir sa dan sa Lalwa mwan.

is obligated HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY 139 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 of I raport back to the Minister to the responsible Minister or the Board of public enterprise for the implementation recommendations in the report.
Now fer lekel ki vwar e oversight lo implementation of the recommendations in the report?

Who does the oversight on that?

MR SPEAKER Well.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Napa personn, akoz the only thing ki, the only oversight body i nou.

Mon pa pe dir donn nou en rapor la mwan.

Menm rekomandasyon nou pa kapab gannyen?

MR SPEAKER En pwen konplike Onorab.

Se look difisil.

i pour sa ki Konsider li san en amannman ki ekrir.

Onorab Georges?

ganny HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair mon a ed Onorab.


Nou vot en Bidze pour Departman Lapolis.

Si Komisyoner Lapolis i anvi fer en investigation lo ki mannyer Kordgard Beau Vallon i ganny run, eski nou demann en rapor sa?

Of course not.

Nou pa kapab dir se akoz nou'n donn li larzan pour li fer travay son Minister, ki fodre sak fwa ki annan en rapor, sak fwa ki annan en lanket, i vin kot nou.

This is exactly the same point.

I understand, i probableman understand lanpler i diferan.

Me mon krwar Minis in fer en bon propozisyon.


Given the late hour and given the fact ki nou pa'n annan en lamannman e nou pa kapab regard e gage, kisisa ki kapab arive avek en lamannman ki nou kapab fer hastily ozordi.

Annou retourn lo la, apre ki sa Lalwa in pase, e si fodre fer en lamannman we will do it when we have the time to study it.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Well, nou bezwen move on, pour le rezon ki napa en kestyon ki konsekan e i napa en matter - en amendment ki Manm in ganny sans reflesir lo la.
Onorab Pillay nou a move on silvouple.

en HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Non-Mr Speaker.

Avek tou respe mon ti a kontan ou donn mwan anba Standing Order e dir mwan poudir ou pa pe aksepte mon lamannman akoz i en en substantial amendment.

Sa ki mon ti a kontan ou dir mwan.

Ruling MR SPEAKER Wi egzakteman se sa ki mon pe dir.

140 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mon pa pe koz Manm reflesir lo la akoz i annan, akoz sa pour mwan ….

MR SPEAKER Wi.
MR SPEAKER Wi.

I pa en – i en substantial amendment... HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Pour mwan met lo rikord akoz next ou Gouvernman pour vin avek substantial amendment ki pour demann ou pour relax Standing Order, ozordi i ava servi koman en presedans dan sa konteks... fer, MR SPEAKER Yeah.

Non mon vreman konsidere ki i en substantial amendment akoz tou sa bann diskisyon ki nou’n i montre.

E Minis in eksplike i a kapab annan poudir konplikasyon.
So mwan mon ruling yes, we cannot accept it because it is a substantial amendment and it has not tabled.

Mersi nou a been kontinyen silvouple.

Onorab Hoareau.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair, nou'n ariv lo paz 27.

So 27 a mon avi mon okenn pa lamannman neseser ki nou bezwen diskite.

okenn, vwar MR SPEAKER Hold on.

Onorab Loze, wi?

HON JOHAN LOZE Mr Speaker mon demann en leskiz mon konnen Minis i fatige.

Mon annan zis en point of 45 “Determination of initial capital and shares”.
concern 27. lo “The market value of the of a public net assets enterprise, shall be determined by an independent valuer and treated as the initial capital of the public enterprise under section 44.” Mr Speaker mon konsern napa okenn provizyon ki ganny fer lo lekel ki apwent sa independent valuer.

E se li ki pour vin determin valer, unless mon pa konnen si zot a dir mwan i kouver anba 44(1).

“The Minister may, by order published in the Gazette, declare a statutory corporation to be a public enterprise”.
Unless zot pe sey dir mwan i kouver la.

Be still i pa dir.

But the valuer pour vin determin valer en consequential asset Leta.

Be zis i aparet.

Pouf!

Mersi Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Minis i anvi adres sa?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.
Mersi Onorab.

Seksyon 45, “The market value of the net assets of a public enterprise shall be determined 141 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 by an independent valuer and treated as the initial capital of the public enterprise under section 44”.

So section 44 li i basically ler ou pe, the Minister is by order pe declare a statutory corporation to be en public enterprise.

So mwan ler mon lir 45 ek 44 ansanm, se Gouvernman ki pour apwent independent valuer.

Mersi.
Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker therein lies the I bezwen annan problem.

somebody ki apwent sa independent valuer.

Ok?

Be i pa kapab the Minister.

pour apwent I bezwen the Commission ki the independent valuer.

Akoz se the Commission ki pour responsible for the PE.

Pa Minis.

Minis i deklar sa PE en, sa antite en PE wi.

But then the Commission the independent valuer, akoz the relationship has got to be between the Commission and the independent valuer.
appoint MR SPEAKER Ok. Onorab Georges.

ava annan en independent valuer, the issue here is that the initial capital will be determined by an independent valuer.

Me si Minis - si Minis Finans i pe al invest dan en public enterprise.

Minis Finans i ava demann en independent en valuer, lendikasyon what the initial capital i devret ete.

Pour mwan konnen si mon devret si mon pour invest or not.

Lekel ki pour fer li?

donn mwan company.


Once again, we have to go back and think in terms of an Se ordinary egzakteman sa ki ou fer.

Ou rod advice, pour ou konnen kote ou pour kapitaliz ou investment.

Mon pa vwar ki annan en difikilte, fodre nou specify lekel ki pour fer sa.

Sa dimoun ki pe invest, ki pour fer sa Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Me pandan ki nou lo la.

Nou’n sot 40 ek 41 ek 42.

Akoz si se Minis - ou vwar akoz nou’n sanze, nou dir ki se - or i see ok.
So responsible right ok. Mersi.

Onorab Hoareau i ava endik nou.

Mersi.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair mon pa vwar ankor enn fwa okenn problenm.

En Lalwa in dir i MR SPEAKER Ok. 142 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Be.

Onorab Pillay ou ankor lo sa pwen?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Wi Mr Speaker.

Onorab Georges pe mislead Lasanble.

Ok i annan en keksoz ki Onorab Georges i fer, e ki i pe pran sa - mon konpran son leksperyans domenn piblik.
E personn pa kapab afford son leksperyans.

Be la in koz ek lo en statutory, en statutory corporation to the public enterprise.

dan Minis pa pe al invest la, dan sa statutory corporation.

Sa statutory corporation i deza pour Gouvernman by virtue ki i statutory.

I ganny kree par en statute e si i ganny kree par en statute i pour Gouvernman.

Le pwen ki nou pe dir se ki, sa independent valuer i bezwen ganny apwente par en dimoun.

Nou pa dakor ki Minis ki pour apwent son independent valuer.
Si zot pe al dan sa direksyon, nou i en fot lepase ki nou’n fer.

We want to avoid it.

MR SPEAKER Ok. HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Be zot pe repet.

Ankor enn fwa zot dir zot fer keksoz le diferaman, it's the same thing!

MR SPEAKER Minis.

Yes, please address.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Hopefully mon kapab met sa largiman to rest.

Ou konnen mon krwar, mon vwar nou pe kree mislead en en kot problenm problenm.
napa The Minister ki declare en statutory corporation as a the public Minister en independent valuer.

Be sa mo li menm i dir ou, “Independent valuer”.

enterprise.

So apwent i So - sa -who - i kapab the Minister, i kapab the PS, i kapab Prezidan be i pe apwent en independent valuer.

That’s the most important thing, dan sa clause.

So Mr Chair mon pa vwar en problenm dan sa clause.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Mwan mon poudir en keksoz.


Mon pa vwar en fason ki en Lalwa menm si en comprehensive i pour kapab kouver tou kalite desizyon.

I bezwen annan sa dimoun ki responsab pour sa public enterprise e Commission ki fer desizyon.

So, mon krwar, Lasanble i bezwen aksepte si i 143 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 pa ganny defini aksepte.

lekel ki Onorab Loze, nou pe, Mon ti pe zis.

Mon ti pe zis.. mon pe al fini mon pwen Mr Speaker nou pe move on la.
HON JOHAN LOZE Mr Speaker mon pa pour vin tard deba mwan.

Mon ti pe sey dir zisteman ki nou, nou ti pe sey fer, se ki lapros ki Lalwa in pran.

Everything defaults back to the Minister.

Everything defaults back to the Minister.

Prezan zot pa state klerman zot.

Akoz menm sa 44 i dir ou – “The Minister may, by order published the Gazette, declare a statutory corporation to be a public enterprise”.
in i koz Apre anba kot zis i independent valuer, sneakily ki'n met under section 44 i pa koz ou lo appointment li.

Zis very sneaky i dir ou under section 44, la nou seek explanation nou ganny dir i defaults back to the Minister.

Be.. .

MR SPEAKER Sorry nou'n diskit sa prensip… HON JOHAN LOZE Non mon ti pe zis… MR SPEAKER Ki kantite pouvwar Minis pour annan… HON JOHAN LOZE MR SPEAKER Nou pa pour antre ankor dan sa diskisyon.

HON JOHAN LOZE Non-Mr Speaker mon zis anvi terminen, mon osi.
Nou'n ganny dir poudir the key word independent valuer, be is ozordi partou nou vwar zot pe apwent zot fanmir, zot kouzen, zot ser, zot frer!

MR SPEAKER La Onorab sorry.

Onorab Hoareau next one please.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Yes Mr Chair.

Mon le retourn enn pti pe backwards lo 41.

A mon avi i devret lir koumsa, “Any officer or person not in agreement with a report of the investigator, shall have the right to appeal against the disputed the subjects Minister”, en full stop.

to investigator, Prezan 40, upon.


Nou retourn 40 aprezan.

“Upon the receipt of reasonable grounds from an the Commission may propose to the Board of the respective public the to suspend any Minister, in office from official accordance the Employment Act”.

Nou retir sa enterprise with or 144 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 bout “responsible Minister as the case may be” Apre 42(1), The Minister or responsible Minister through the Minister shall have the withdraw,” powers to eksetera.
Ok. MR SPEAKER Onorab Pillay ou pe adres sa?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Be mwan mon krwar nou'n vwar problenm ki pe arive.

Mr Speaker savedir, Minis Finans pour sispann en dimoun, ki travay SPTC e non pa Minis Transpor.

Savedir Minis Finans, ki pour sispann CEO SFA e non pa Minis Lapes.

This is what your amendment does.

Because you are submitting the Minister.

Be then annou apel katriyenm trwazyenm, Prezidan Sesel Minis Hassan.

to it MR SPEAKER Ok lets not go there.


Selman mwan mon pwen… HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY This is, this is, this is what you’re creating Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER Hold on.

Ok. HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY super creating You’re Minister for Finance ki pour fer tou keksoz.

a MR SPEAKER Sorry, sorry.

Non-pour dan mon responsabilite pour diriz sa forward.

Sa bann wording ki la in ganny, in pas dan Bills Committee in ganny aksepte par panel.

E si in pas dan Bills Committee sa mon pa kapab.

Selman la.
Selman la.

So ki mannyer nou pe al sanz li la?

Minis eski ou le adres sa bann propozisyon?

Yes.

in ariv HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Ok Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker i 7er 33.

Nou ankor annan lenerzi pour travay si Onorab Georges i fatige dir li aret disturb mwan.

Mr Speaker annou ganny en keksoz kler.

Sak sa bann antite zot bann statutory corporation, statutory bodies, right?

So zot annan en Minis ki responsab sa statutory body.

Appointment and suspension of bann official anba sa statutory body.
I ganny fer par sa Minis ki responsab sa body.

Get ki sa clause poudir 40, “Upon the receipt of reasonable grounds from an investigator, the Commission has the power to propose to the Board of the respective public enterprise or the Minister, to suspend any official from office”.

Akoz i ti met “responsible Minister” la?


Akoz in the first 145 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 place i ti mazinen, se ki sa - se sa responsible Minister par egzanp dan ka Minis Ferrari se li ki apwent CEO SFA avek konsiltasyon avek Prezidan parey zot kontan fer.

This is the point that I am making Mr Speaker.

To me it does not make sense.

MR SPEAKER Sorry, mon pa konnen si legzanp SFA i aplike akoz la nou pe koz public enterprise, ki'n ganny.

Onorab Georges, wi.
Onorab Georges, wi.

en HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker mon krwar, nou devret anpes Onorab Pillay anvoy bennzin dan son lakaz, met dife dan son lakaz apre kriy fire brigade pour vin tenny dife.

Akoz sete egzakteman sa ki nou pe fer depi apre midi.

I soulev en pwen, i soulev en pwen ki pa en pwen, apre i vini i donn nou en fason pour nou solve sa pwen ki in leve.

Mr Speaker si nou krwar la, i kler is during an investigation the which Minister has launched.
this Se pour sa rezon ki sa bann mo i la, on the grounds from an investigator, is not in agreement with the report of the investigator.

Alors si se li ki'n investigate, si se li ki’n launched sa investigation, i bezwen li ki pour pran sa desizyon.

Se pour sa rezon ki nou pe fer sa.

Akoz pli boner nou'n tonm dakor ki se Minis ki pour ganny sa permisyon, e zot, zot in dakor.

Alor prezan nou pour bezwen fer menm zafer isi.

Mersi Mr Chair.

MR SPEAKER Mon kapab admet ki zot in reisir pour konfiz mwan.
Ok mon pa konnen mon a les Minis adrese silvouple Onorab Pillay.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair zot in kapab konfiz ou akoz kree problenm kot napa problenm.

MR SPEAKER Ok, so- (Off-Mic) ki MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN fatige Non!

Non!

Mon pa mwan.

Mon again mon remet mon pozisyon lo la.

This is en ganny investigation, launched by the Minister.

So it just follows, ou pa kapab en pe parey Onorab Georges in dir.
Ou fer Lapolis Sesel fer lenvestigasyon, apre ou dir anvoy aksyon kot Lapolis Angle pour fer sa.

Ou pa kapab fer sa.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER 146 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Non be mwan mon kestyon, se ki wording nou pe rode la?

Eski sa enn ki la lo papye oubyen sa enn ki Onorab Hoareau in propoze dernyen?

Sa ki mon pe rode, lekel wording ki zot in agreement avek?

Onorab Pillay, wi?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker si mon ti pour dir ou fer mwan en faver pa ekout Onorab Georges tro bokou, akoz se li ki kree sa konfizyon.

Gete problenm i senp, Lalwa ki mannyer ti'n ganny drafte ti dir, lenvestigasyon sa grounds reasonable investigator i submit sa to Minis e pour li demann sispann.

Minis i anvi ki li ki all to Rome, tou roads leads li, tou semen pas atraver lenvestigasyon li ki komanse, fer.

Pa tou keksoz dan problenm Gouvernman, li ki deside.
li ki li ki Mon problenm se avek sa boug, ki zot al vwar en keksoz ek li si i annan en defans.

Ou dir li al appeal avek son responsible Minister, ki pa konn dan nanryen lenvestigasyon ki ou ou'n inisye.

Me selman ou ki met li deor.

Eski i normal pour en travayer pa konpran ki semen i sipoze pran?

This is my concern.

Prezan Mr Speaker, nou, nou Lasanble nou, nou sipoze fer oversight.
Oversight lo Minis Finans, ou bezwen extend to aksyon ki en Minis Finans i kapab pran avek IECD, i pour bezwen extend to aksyon i kapab pran avek tou sa ki'n mansyonnen anba Schedule 1.

E SFA i en SOE.

SOEs bann So mon pwen i senp Mr Speaker.

Nou pe dir ek zot pa fer sa fot.

Setou.

E Minis i bezwen aksepte poudir menm si rapor i ganny submitted ek li, sa responsible Minister i still kapab, i bezwen la pour li, li ki bezwen pran sa aksyon akoz se li ki'n apwent sa dimoun.
Pa ou ki apwent CEO SFA, pa ou IDC, se ki apwent CEO Prezidan avek konsiltasyon Minis Lapes.

MR SPEAKER Ok. HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY So in fact, si pour Prezidan then Prezidan ki bezwen sispann sa dimoun.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Nou annan de- Onorab Hoareau silvouple, zis repet wording ki ou pe propoze dan sa de Seksyon.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair nou a komans avek clause 40.

147 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 MR SPEAKER Yes 40.
HON JOHN HOAREAU Ok. “Upon receipt of the reasonable grounds from an investigator, the Commission may propose to the Board of the respective public enterprise or the Minister, to suspend any official in accordance with Employment Act”.

office from MR SPEAKER Stop!

Stop there.

Minis eski ou dakor avek sa wording?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Wi, Mr Chair.

MR SPEAKER Manm eski i annan obzeksyon lo sa wording, oubyen nou bezwen vot lo la?

Obzeksyon.

Eski nou pour bezwen vot lo la, pour aksepte?


Onorab Hoareau ou le move sa amendment?

Yes move.

Move.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Yes mon pe move amendment.

sa MR SPEAKER Segonde silvouple.

Onorab Naidu i segonde.

Manm ki an faver lev lanmen silvouple?

Thank you.

Manm ki kont.

Ok.

Lo amendment propoze par Onorab Hoareau pour sa Public Enterprise Bill.

16 Manm in vot pour, 8 in vot kont e 0 in abstain.

Donk sa wording in ganny aksepte par Lasanble.

41.

HON JOHN HOAREAU 41 i lir koumsa.


“Any officer or person not in agreement with a report of the investigator shall have to appeal right against the disputed subjects to the Minister.” Full stop.

the MR SPEAKER Full stop.

Sa amannman ou pe move?

HON JOHN HOAREAU Yes.

Mon pe move.

MR SPEAKER Mon a ganny en secondment silvouple.

Onorab Naidu.

Ok Manm ki an faver?

Sorry nou a vot lo la- Lekel?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY (Off-Mic) MR SPEAKER Yes, Onorab Hoareau?
HON JOHN HOAREAU Mr Speaker anba Order 72(1) ou kapab… ‘’Provided that the Chairperson may relax this provision in favor of simple amendments or emergency Bills.’’ So ou kapab relax bann Orders, pour nou kapab pas sa Bill silvouple.

148 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 MR SPEAKER Yes mon- Yes Onorab Pillay?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker si ou relax la, ou a bezwen relax pour mwan taler.

Akoz ou pa kapab swazir pour relax ler LDS i demann ou e pa relax pour nou.
MR SPEAKER As long as ki mon pe met li.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY I pa pour lozik.

I pour bias Mr Speaker!

Sorry i pour bias.

It cause into question your credibility!

Mr Speaker… MR SPEAKER Order!

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Sorry Mr Speaker, it cause into question the impartiality of the Chair!

Si dan sa konteks ou relax because this is not a simple amendment.
Akoz ou pe koz kote mwan koman en travayer, ki aggrieved ek en desizyon ki'n ganny pran par Minis Finans pour al appeal, mon pour vin appeal ek Minis Finans, kan par egzanp mwan mon travay dan domenn lapes, kot mon devret al appeal ek sa Minis ki sipoze konn mon fonksyon ki mwan mon fer.

E ki baze lo mon Lalwa, mon ganny apwente par sa dimoun atraver Prezidan.

In fact fot ki zot pe fer se Prezidan ki devret pe sispann sa bann dimoun, pa Minis.
MR SPEAKER Ok. li fer en deba HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY So Mr Speaker I urge you.

Les lo sa nou amannman parey Standing Order.

E si ou allow li, e si ou i en emergency allow amendment ki ou pe fer.

Akoz i en emergency Bill.

Ki ou'n refize aksepte pour mwan, i pour montre klerman Mr Speaker that there’s no, there’s there’s no no partiality or fairness with the Chair.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mon pa pe dir sa dan en fason kritik.

Me mon pe dir en lobzervasyon.

Mersi Mr Speaker.


faver MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Anba mwan responsabilite mon a put the question to a vote.

Tou Manm ki an lanmen silvouple.

Mersi Manm ki Lo kont.

dezyenm amendment par amendment Onorab Hoareau pour Public Enterprise Bill.

16 Manm in vot - propoze Thank you.

lev 149 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 pour, 8 kont e 0 in abstain.

Sa amendment in pase.

Yes, Onorab ki ou matter of privilege?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker Konstitisyon nou Standing Order i prevwar ki tou Manm i bezwen ganny menm tretman ekitab Orders Standing Lasanble Nasyonal.

Mon pe submit devan ou ki ou tretman ki mwan mon’n resevwar an relasyon ek lamannman ki mwan mon’n propoze lo Lalwa ki devan Lasanble was not fair and equitable.
E mon demann ou pour donn en ruling forthwith lo lefe ki ou'n abiz lotorite dan Chair favoriz mazorite dan pour Lasanble Nasyonal, pour allow zot lamannman e ou'n servi ou diskresyon pour allow zot lamannman e refize pour allow nou kote latab pour lamannman, propoz okenn malgre sibstansyel, me kapab ede dan konteks sa Bill.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

amendment MR SPEAKER Mersi.


Mon pe rule ki mon konsider ki Onorab Hoareau in propoze, en senp amendment, akoz i zis delete serten words, e anba Order 44 mon annan drwa waive sa requirement.

Onorab Hoareau ou a kontinyen silvouple.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair ou le mon relir 42 aprezan?

MR SPEAKER Ou'n mete ou amendment, mon sipoze… HON JOHN HOAREAU Si oule mon anmenn sa lamannman pour 42(1)?

MR SPEAKER 41.

HON JOHN HOAREAU 42(1).

MR SPEAKER 42(1).

Yes.


i lir koumsa.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Ok Mr Speaker mon pe move ki “The 42(1) Minister or responsible Minister through the Minister, shall have the power to withdraw, terminate, suspend or cancel a special investigation which he in she has directed or accordance with section 35(1) and the reasons for such action shall be documented by the Commission”.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Ok nou pe amend.


Yes ou'n donn sa Minis pouvwar, be selman nou pe amend en clause dan sa Lalwa.

So nou bezwen, nou bezwen fer sa 150 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 amendment.

Onorab Hoareau in propoz an amendment.

Manm ki le segonde silvouple?

Onorab Naidu.

HON SATHYA NAIDU Lamannman i ganny segonde Mr Speaker.

Lo MR SPEAKER Silvouple.

Manm ki an faver lev lanmen silvouple.

Thank you.

Manm ki kont.

Thank trwazyenm you.


amannman par lo Public Onorab Hoareau Enterprises Bill, 2023, 16 Manm in vot pour, 8 kont e 0 in abstain.

Sa amendment in pase.

propoze Silvouple a kontinyen.

Onorab Hoareau next point.

nou HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair nou a kontinyen lo paz 27.

Mon krwar i annan 3 ankor lezot pti amannman ki'n ganny agree.

Nou al lo paz 28.

Ankor mon vwar tou amendment in ganny agree, nou al lo 29.
E mwan, I submit to you Mr Speaker lot of there’s a problem with this Bill.

Ou koman en dimoun ki kontan langaz parey mwan.

I will draw your attention to 47, guarantees.
Continuous “Despite a budget dependent entity being declared to be a public enterprise, a guarantee or indemnity given by the Minister by or under an Act or otherwise before the date of the declaration in respect of the performance, satisfaction or discharge of obligations or liabilities budget dependent entity under an instrument issued or entered into by the budget dependent entity before the date of that declaration, continues as a like guarantee or indemnity.’’ the of Mr Speaker be ki langaz sa Eskimo?
Non, konmsi.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

HON JOHAN LOZE Ki Seriously!

langaz sa pengwen?

MR SPEAKER En enstan.

Wi Onorab Loze.

MR SPEAKER Well.

HON JOHAN LOZE Mr Speaker mon annan zis enn pti pwen ki mon anvi met devan ou.

Vi ki zot dir nou, nou pe balans bennzin dan nou prop lakaz pour met dife.

HON JOHAN LOZE Ok Mr Speaker mon’n balans bennzin la.

MR SPEAKER 151 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Ok.

Non mon a reponn ou.

Wi i en pe konplike, be langaz legal i konplike.

Sorry.?
Sorry.?

Mon pa'n ok. souvan, souvan HON JOHAN LOZE Mr Speaker.

Langaz legal ni ladan.

punctuation Langaz legal sa?

napa eksplik silvouple.

sa enn pti pe, MR SPEAKER Silvouple refer mwan lo ki seksyon.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Lo 31, paz 31.

MR SPEAKER Oule, oule propoz punctuation Onorab Loze?

MR SPEAKER Wi.

HON JOHAN LOZE Non-Mr Speaker!

Mon pe zis point out avek ou, ki sa i en salad mo e we are rushing through this Bill nou pe get en ta problenm deryer.
it incumbent upon us, pou fer en Bill pase ki dimoun i kapab konpran.

Is Onorab Georges mon konnen ou fatige.

Aret gele silvouple.

MR SPEAKER Order!

Order!

Si i napa, si Onorab Loze napa en simple amendment, nou a kontinyen.

Onorab Hoareau next point.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Nou pour kontinyen lo paz 29, mon pa vwar okenn problenm 29.

Lo paz 30 osi nou'n agree.

Prezan paz 31 i annan 2 ki'n agree me i annan en comment la.
Mon ti a kontan ki Onorab Georges i HON JOHN HOAREAU Nou lo clause 51(4), 51(3).

Hang on.

Sorry.

Eskiz mwan mon a redir sa.

MR SPEAKER I pa lo paz 31 li.

HON JOHN HOAREAU I lo 53(5), 53(5) subsection 5.

Paz 31.

MR SPEAKER Bear with me please.

53(5).

HON JOHN HOAREAU Lannwit pe fer mon krwar.

MR SPEAKER Yes.

Lekel.

Lekel ki nou pe konsidere la?

Onorab Georges wi.

Enn pti moman Onorab Pillay.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair mon anvi query sa dezyenm fwa ki sa mo “distributed” i aparet dan sa clause.
Si nou regard li 152 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 byen Mr Chair, nou vwar ki i dir, “An estimate of the be to intended amount distributed as dividends for each year shall be covered by the statement of corporate intent, together with an estimate of the amount or proportion of annual tax paid on earnings from both capital and revenue sources, that is intended to be distributed to Government”.

While I agree e Onorab Loze ki en fen dimoun ki kontan bann mo i ava dakor avek mwan.
While I agree that i bon pour “distributed” dividends.

“Distributed” is not appropriate for payment of tax.

Mon ti a propoze ki sa mo, dan “distributed” katriyenm laliny i sanze e i ganny substituted by “paid”.

“Distributed dividends and tax that is intended to be paid to to Government or remitted Government”.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Pillay, wi?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Chairman.

Mr Chairman mwan mon annan en issue akoz nou'n al vit.

Be lo seksyon 51(1).


I dir Policies and strategic priorities.

“The provide government policy directives the the public governance shall for of enterprises”.

Mon pa an faver sa mo government akoz this is policy directives.

E Gouvernman i enkli all entities within government under 51(1).

Ok?

E mon konpran ki Onorab Georges pe diskite an relasyon avek sa next clause, me 51 i vin avan.

So, mon ti a kontan adres sa.


Vi ki Minis i partou, akoz safwasi pa Minis ki pe set – non, non-Mr Speaker i bezwen ganny definir.

Akoz Lasanble Nasyonal i form par Gouvernman.

Pa nou ki pour set policy directives, sertennman pa nou lo sa kote latab ki anvi get involve ek set policy directives ek zot bann SOEs apre sa Lalwa ki zot pe fer.

Pa koz mwan lamannman ou.

MR SPEAKER Ok. HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Akoz ou pa le aksepte lamannman, we have to bring the point up.
MR SPEAKER Nou a settle-nou a settle sa pwen dan 5 premye.

To change “distributed” to “paid”.

Eski okenn i Minis obzeksyon pour sa.

Yes Minister?

annan MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mr Chair, non.

153 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 MR SPEAKER Minis.

Sorry mon pa'n tann ou.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mr Chair non mon napa okenn obzeksyon.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Ok prezan nou a kapab regard 51.

Onorab Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr, Mr Chairman.


Policies and strategic priorities of sa SOEs i bezwen ganny set par antite ki sipoze pe devlop sa SOE.

Akoz i Gouvernman ki bezwen set sa policy?

you I pa rol Gouvernman – Gouvernman what do you la?
mean by government Because to have understand Mr Speaker, mon pe baz sa largiman lo lefe Gouvernman dan sa Lasanble in refize kategorikman fer nou form parti okenn desizyon an sa ki konsern sanzman kote bann dimoun pour appeal; ki mannyer bann aksyon pour ganny pran ek bann antite an relasyon ek bann special investigation.

La suddenly nou sipoze tonm dakor ki Gouvernman ki pour deside strategic priorities?

Non.

MR SPEAKER Eski lamannman la?


ou pe propoz en HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker i annan zis en lamannman ki zot devret pe propoze.

I devret Minis.

MR SPEAKER The Minister?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Be akoz se li ki bezwen, akoz li ki deza pe donn directives.

MR SPEAKER Well, Gouvernman.

li ki reprezant HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY I pa nou rol koman Lasanble Nasyonal.

MR SPEAKER Ok. Annou les Minis konsider sa.

Nou a gete si i konplike.

Si i konplike nou a bezwen move on.

Minis.


MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair the policy intent here se ler nou pe dir Gouvernman the Executives.

So mon leave it ti the AG’s Office pour deside si the drafting language reflect the policy intent.

Mersi.

se MR SPEAKER Yes, Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES 154 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Mr Chair, ankor enn fwa, tou dimoun i konnen e sirtou Lezislater i konnen ki sa mo Gouvernman i annan de sans.
Government with a capital “G”, i trwa brans Gouvernman.

Government with a small “g” is another word for the Executive.

include sa Nou tou nou konnen, mon pa konnen akoz 4 minit avan 8er, nou bezwen pe diskit en keksoz ki be aback ki nou bann Lezislater nou konn sa depi ler nou'n antre dan sa Lasanble.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Minis mon’n kestyonn ou, si ki ou pozisyon lo la?


MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mr Chair mon pozisyon se by “government”, we mean the Executives e si sa language i reflekte sa mon konfortab avek.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Yah.

So ou konfortab avek wording ki la?

Oubyen AG pour donn en lopinyon.

Yes Onorab Pillay?

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker in arive en staz kot mwan mon pa trust Onorab Georges, ni avek en little “g”.

MR SPEAKER Wi me.
MR SPEAKER Wi me.

in trust HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mon problenm mwan i kapab dir ek capital, small mon pa li ditou.

Akoz pour mannyer i fer ozordi, montre mwan poudir i napa okenn lentansyon vin pli transparan avek lafason zot fer keksoz.

Mwan mon pa vwar rezon akoz ler nou pe koz lo Gouvernman, nou pe vin enkli Gouvernman as it means it means Lasanble today, Nasyonal e Zidisyer.

Minis in anvi pran tou pouvwar anba son Lalwa.

Then that should be the case.


Donn li tou son pouvwar akoz pa vin water down or kree konfizyon ki apre ler pour fer i vin en oversight problenm.

Non!

la lo I pa the government ki pour set the Policy.

The directives are being given directly by the Minister.

The Minister is the representative of the government.

Li ki devret pe fer sa.

I don’t think this carries it goes the meaning and against this Assembly Mr Speaker.
the ethos of i dir sa Lalwa MR SPEAKER Ok mwan mon lopinyon se ki si the government e se Minis ki ansarz sa seksyon public enterprise se li ki pour ganny delegate pour fer sa policy.

Donk AG, Counsel?

Nou pe 155 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 regarde si ou pour aksepte the Minister la, oubyen si ou pe propoze drafting remains purposes ‘’government.

for ki it DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME It should read Minister... MR SPEAKER It should be - sorry.
Sorry Counsel I don’t hear you, you have to either shout.

DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME It should instead of ‘’government.’’ read ‘’Minister’’ MR SPEAKER It should read the Minister.

So that’s settled.

Madanm Clerk pe endik mwan poudir nou bezwen sanz batri dan serten microphone.

So mon pour deklar en technical break 3minit nou pour reste dan lasal e nou a permet teknisyen sanz batri.

So si nou kapab zis koup transmisyon e permet teknisyen antre nou a fer sa sanzman.

Silvouple.
Silvouple.

(technical break) MR SPEAKER Pare pou repran ler teknisyen i a retourn lantern.

Byen, nou kapab Onorab repran.

Georges ki pwen?

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mr Chair mon annan en point of order e mon pe vin anba Order 72.

Mr Chair mon konsernen par lafason ki sa deba pe proceed e ki mannyer i pe ganny sirtou proceed par Lopozisyon dan sa Lasanble.

nou annan devan nou en Bill e i annan en seri lamannman ki’n ganny propoze lo sa Bill.
E la ki nou dan Committee Stage anba Order 72 nou devret pe regard sa bann lamannman.

Mon pa konpran akoz ki Lopozisyon ki’n deside pa submit okenn lamannman, ni 1 an ekrir or otherwise pe ganny loportinite apre midi pou zot debat lo bann clause ki zot pa’n anmenn okenn amannman.

Si nou pou kontinyen koumsa, sa ki nou pe fer se repet en deba lo policy sa Bill e ki nou’n fer pou sa dernyen 3 a 4erdtan san ki nou pe donn lavantaz sa bann ki’n anmenn lamannman pou diskit zot lamannman.
Nou pe pas plis letan pe koz lo bann keksoz ki pa’n anmenn devan nou Lasanble olye focus lo sa bann ki nou ki’n travay e ki’n anmenn amannman devan sa Lasanble, ki Onorab John Hoareau pe propoze ozordi.

Nou, nou pa kapab pas nou letan pe debat nou bann lamannman.

156 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Alors Mr Chair mon demann ou anba Order 72 pou re ankadre lafason ki sa deba pe ale apre midi, e annou al zis lo bann amannman ki devan nou.
Si i annan okenn lezot dimoun ki anvi anmenn en lamannman e ki zot santi ki anba Order 72 - 72(1) proviso zot anvi anmenn en ki lamannman enportan, silvouple demann zot pou formulate zot lamannman e pou met en lamannman e non pa pou demann en kestyon oubyen argye en pwen Polisi, san ki sa i en lamannman.

li koman culminate dan ki E nou ava vot lo sa bann amannman si i annan e mon krwar nou kapab ariv kot nou a en ler apropriye apre midi.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.


Nou pou prosede avek bann lamannman ki la ki’n fer antre, wi Onorab Pillay?

73, procedure HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker, Onorab pa kapab zis lir Order 72 i bezwen lir in Order Committee the whole of Assembly.

E napa naryen ki donn li okenn pouvwar pou li fer sa ki in fer, savedir ou pe dir ek mwan ki Onorab Georges ki pou dir ou ki mannyer Lasanble i sipoze fonksyonnen?
Apre ki in fini dir ou son point of order ou pa ni rule si son point of order i annord e ou deside pou dir li ou pou prosed dan lafason ki li i deside?

But this to dictatorship dan sa Lasanble Nasyonal, I am sorry Mr Speaker.

tantamount is (APPLAUSE) HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Order 73 i dir ou, i dir ou kler Order 73(1) up to Order 73(8) i dir ou ki mannyer nou pou deal avek lamannman.

So, nou annan drwa pou nou raise e nou, nou, nou’n koz lo lamannman ganny propoze par Onorab.

Napa naryen mal ek sa.


ki’n zot Savedir ki nou devret fer?

Si anmenn ki’n lamannman, zis zot ki pou koz lo la?

Me zot menm zot, zot pa pe koze lo zot lamannman.

Dezyenmman Mr Speaker … MR SPEAKER Sorry, mon pou rule.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr Speaker mon pou enplor ou, akoz this is gonna go on record nou pou fer sir poudir nou enform tou bann antite that - mon pa pe menase mwan mon pe zis dir.
MR SPEAKER 157 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 silvouple Please Members, konsantre pou nou kapab prosede avek sa Bill.

Onorab ou Pillay mon’n lamannman, mon krwar mon annan lotorite anba Standing Order 72 e anba General Provision Standing Order.

ekout HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Non Mr Speaker ou napa lotorite pou ….
MR SPEAKER Mon annan lotorite… HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY I annan Order 73, general provisions i zis ler ki i annan keksoz ki pa’n deza, pa’n ganny prevwar anba Standing Order Lasanble.

Order 73 i prevwar ki mannyer nou tret en Committee Stage, e napa naryen pou Onorab Georges vin dir ki mannyer nou devret konport nou oubyen devret fer dan Lasanble.

Me si ou fer sa ozordi fer li toulezour, akoz anfen kont i annan zis LDS dan Lasanble napa nou kote.
a konsider MR SPEAKER Nou a kontinyen anba 72 e nou bann amannman Onorab… mon pa kapab pran ankor point of order, mon’n deal avek sa bann point of order.

Mon krwar sorry mon krwar Onorab Loze i zis en mannyer obstruct the business of the Assembly e mon pa pe kapab prosede avek Lasanble.

(APPLAUSE) MR SPEAKER So, Onorab Hoareau proceed.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mr Chair mersi bokou….

MR SPEAKER Counsel i le fer en pwen, mon a les li fer.
DRAFTSPERSON LEGAL IRENE SIRAME to Mr Chair with regards clause 51 kot dan sa 2 subsection which is subsection (2), kot sa mo (1) and “Government” i aparet panel pe sizere ki nou met “Minister” or “responsible Minister”.

So, the “Government “ word i deleted accordingly.

MR SPEAKER Ok, si okenn Manm i annan lobzeksyon nou pou pran en vote.

Nou pran en vote lo la.

Si Manm pa obzekte nou aksepte lamannman ki’n ganny sa propoze.
HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY (Off-Mic) MR SPEAKER Onorab Pillay ou pe zis met obstruction, ki point of order?

158 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 avek Speaker Lasanble, HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mr ou permisyon ok?

Anba Order 8 nou prosedir Lasanble.

Sa lamannman ki pe propoze mwan ki’n fer, mwan ki’n propoze i parey ou’n war i ok.

So, ou ou’n deside e ti napa lamannman lo la.

Ti napa okenn lamannman propoze lo la.


Mon fek propoze e panel in dakor, so eski ou pe dir mwan poudir I was wrong to the amendment ki propose panel in dakor avek- by the ruling ki ou fek donn Onorab in Georges disregarding Order 73?

Napa kankan!

Ou pa kapab vin dir nou ki mannyer nou pou konport nou dan Lasanble, non.

lo Order 72 MR SPEAKER Ok, the amendment has been proposed and accepted, the wording is “The Minister shall provide”.

Onorab Hoareau kontinyen silvouple.


HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair, Mr Chair ti annan en pti lenpas lo 53(5) kot Onorab Georges ti’n suggest pou nou sanz sa mo “distributed” dan dernyen laliny sa paragraf pou sanz sa mo “distributed” pou met li “paid”.

avan MR SPEAKER Minis, Minis in fini dakor lo la e Manm pa’n obzekte.

So, sa lamannman in ganny aksepte.

Kontinyen silvouple.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair.

Nou move nou al lo paz 32 mon war ankor tou keksoz in ganny agree lo la.
Nou al lo paz 33… MR SPEAKER One second, Onorab Loze ou pe adres en pwen amendment?

HON JOHAN LOZE Mr Speaker mon pe adres en pwen nou lo 53, mon pe adres en pwen lo 53 kot “Statement of corporate intent” kot i dir “The Board of each public enterprise” li i ava fer son statement of corporate intent.

Mon le zis met devan panel ki “(l)” “any other matter that the responsible Minister, the Minister and the Commission directs to be included in the statement”.
Mon wonder si sa ki zot anvi go with, akoz la nou dan “Statement of corporate intent” ki sipoze ganny fer par Board e Lalwa li i pe dir “any other matter that the responsible Minister, the Minister and the Commission directs to be included in the statement.

Mon ti a konpran “the Commission” me konmsi “the Minister and the responsible… 159 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 MR SPEAKER So, ou pe dir, ou pe dir sa last item dan 3.

HON JOHAN LOZE Yes, 3.


MR SPEAKER 3 (I) HON JOHAN LOZE Yes (I).

MR SPEAKER Ok, i napa lamannman ki’n ganny propoze lo la, mon pou demann Minis son lopinyon e nou pou move on.

Minis.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mr Chair mon napa okenn issue la.

MR SPEAKER Ou napa okenn issue avek sa wording la?

Nou a kontinyen, Onorab Hoareau next one.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mr Chair nou a kontinyen, wi lo paz 32, e paz 32 tou keksoz in ganny agree par panel.

Paz 33 osi tou keksoz in ganny agree par panel.


Paz 34 clause 59 an montan, tou keksoz in ganny agree par panel.

Paz 35 osi menm parey.

Paz 36 agreed, paz 37 agreed.

Nou al lo paz 38 ki osi agreed.

Paz 39 agreed.

Paz 40 agreed e ti annan sa issue small “d” pou “director” ki osi ganny agreed.

Paz 41 li osi agreed.

MR SPEAKER One second.

Onorab Gill ou oule kestyonn en amendment?


HON CHURCHILL GILL en Non, pa amendment klarifikasyon avek Minis lo 75(5) kot i dir ki “bann saler pou bann Chief Executives i pou ganny kalkile dapre public salary framework”.

Parey nou “public sa bann konnen enterprise” ozordi zot deza annan dimoun pe travay ladan e zot deza annan en saler.

E eski sa i pou applicable pou bann nouvo Executive ki pou henceforth ganny oubyen pou annan serten azisteman ki pou ganny fer ler sa Lalwa in fini ganny pase?

Mersi.
Mersi.

recruit MR SPEAKER Minis zis klarifye.

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair, mersi Onorab.

Ler nou pou travay lo sa National Renumeration Policy i devret pran into context the existing salary structure.

So, nou pa pou kapab met en Polisi ki the staff will be worse off me i la pou sanz direksyon moving forward.

So, i pou ganny fer dan sa context.

Mersi.

160 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 MR SPEAKER Thank you, nou pa pe pran deba lo la, Minis in eksplike.
Nou a kontinyen Onorab Hoareau.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Yes, Mr Chair.

Mr Chair lo 75(5) mon remarke i annan en pti mistake ki zot pa’n apersevwar en typo “pubic” instead i devret “public” lo dernyen laliny.

E 76(c) osi menm parey “fulltime in the i devret pubic” enterprise, “public enterprise”.

Yes 76(c) mon’n dir, 76 anler osi lo sa “chapeau” i annan 1 osi.

MR SPEAKER Yes, sa bann koreksyon i a ganny note please.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Ok, Nou al lo paz 42 ankor everything is agreed.
Lo paz 43 i annan en referans avek clause 78(3) i annan en referans ki ganny fer avek clause 40, mon ava les Onorab Georges koz lo la en pti pe.

MR SPEAKER Yes Onorab Georges, ki ou pe refer lo la.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mr Chair mon pe koze akoz nou kote in met lamannman, akoz nou, nou annan drwa koze e se pou sa rezon ki nou pe koze.

(APPLAUSE) HON BERNARD GEORGES Sa ki pa kontan kite ale.
Mr Speaker- Mr Speaker and with the Employment Act i en addition ki nou caucus in propoze e ki mon vwar CEO, Acting CEO in agree, mersi.

MR SPEAKER Thank you.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Bon mersi nou kontinyen - 43 napa ankor pwen tou leres in agree.

44 paz 44 tou keksoz in ganny agreed lo la.

45 osi parey agreed.

46 agreed.

47 i annan en renumbering la ki mon krwar osi in ganny agreed sa, re lettering.

48 lo paz 48 mon ava les Onorab Georges koz lo clause 85(3).
MR SPEAKER Yes, Onorab mon war i annan en propozisyon la.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.

Mr Chair mon kestyon ki mon ti anvi panel i konsidere se sa clause 85(1) i dir “ki Oditer Zeneral i ava odit bann kont public enterprises ki’n ganny etablir koman statutory corporations.” E mon 161 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 mazinen ki bann ki in ganny kree anba Companies Act i ava ganny odite par en oditer ki i ava ganny apwente par AGM sa lakonpannyen.
pou oditer E annefe se sa ki 85(2) i dir “Board avek approval of the shareholders” i ava apwent bann bann konpanny ki pa statutory corporations.
Me apre nou al lo (3) e i dir “Services of approval external auditors may be sought by the Board to cause its accounts to be audited, with the approval of the Auditor General.” E mon pa konpran akoz sa i la etandonnen ki nou’n fini determinen statutory corporations se Oditer Zeneral ki pou odit e bann lezot se en external auditor ki pou ganny apwente par the Board.
ki Si prezan nou anvi ki Oditer Zeneral i aprouv lapwentman bann external auditor public enterprises created under the Companies Act ki posib, eski se sa ki zot pe dir?

That’s my question.

Mersi.

the to MR SPEAKER Minis, wi.

MINISTER HAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.

Mersi Onorab.

Ki i pe dir la se ki pou bann “Public enterprise” ki statutory responsabilite lies with Auditor General.

But the Auditor the General can outsource audit to an external auditor.

So, it goes (1) and (3) does together.


Mon pa konnen si the drafting is correct but the policy intention is that the Auditor General has the responsibility, but the it can outsource responsibility for that purpose.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Pwen Onorab Pillay, wi?

ek HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Speaker, pou ed Onorab Georges son lamannman.

The way it is written paret mon Onorab Loizeau i konpran sa byen, the way it is written Mr Speaker, Mr Chairman i pa korek.
Akoz la ou pe dir se “the Board” ki seek sa, i pa sa.

I arive currently dan bann ka kot Oditer Zeneral pa kapab conduct audit, i outsource sa audit.

So, mon krwar sa ki ou devret pe dir anler ou pe dir “The Auditor-General shall audit the accounts of the public enterprises established as statutory corporations” me sa (3) i bezwen vin anler pou sa (2) kontinyen.
Prezan eski ou pou kit sa (4) to external in relation auditor’s report which also include Auditor General report - Rapor Oditer an relasyon ek bann public enterprises ki pa 162 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Tandis bann statutory corporations?

Akoz mannyer (4) is written i en catch-all, ou konpran?

ki mon pe mazinen sa ki ou pe dir se ki (1), (3) and (4) i al ansanm e (2) i li tousel.
So, sa ki ou devret fer se rebouz zot e fer (2) vin (4) e sa (3) and (4) i vin (2) and (3) pou ou kapab ganny en konpran.

And then ou sanz lord lo lekel ki apwent sa external auditor in this case it should be the Auditor General that does the appointment, not the Board appointing and the Auditor General confirming.

Zis pou note akoz pou li en Zeneral Oditer constitutional obligation pou li odit sa bann kont.

So, i par lao statitwar.

Mersi Mr en Chairman.

i MR SPEAKER Panel?


Antretan Onorab Georges si ou oule kontinyen eksplike.

HON BERNARD GEORGES Yes, mon ti anvi apre ki mon’n ekout Minis avek Leader Lopozisyon e pou capitulate sa ki Minis i son lide, eski mon kapab propoz the following?

Dan 85(1) “Pursuant to Article 158 of the Constitution, The Auditor-General shall or external auditors approved by him or her shall audit the accounts of public enterprises” established corporations.
as statutory Dan (2) “Accounts of the public enterprises not falling under subsection (1) shall be audited by auditors appointed the their Boards with by approval of the shareholders or the Auditor-General.” and Donk, i fer ki Auditor General i kapab outsource dan premye e dan 2enm li ki pou bezwen aprouv Auditors “the nominated by the Board” e dan sa ka nou pa pou bezwen (3) mersi.

MR SPEAKER Minis konsidere si ou dakor avek sa propozisyon.

Onorab Pillay ki ou pe dir lo la?


HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Mersi Mr Chairman i annan en floor dan sa propozisyon, you see the second one annou pran par egzanp SEYPEC.

SEYPEC son Board i aprouv son prop Oditer, Oditer Zeneral napa naryen pou fer avek Oditer SEYPEC.

Ki mannyer Onorab Georges pe propoze, se ki ou pe entrodwir Oditer Zeneral pou osi aprouv sa Oditer ki SEYPEC i aprouve.
Now, mwan mon napa problenm ek sa mwan, me selman mon krwar i defeats the whole purpose of the argument of ou annan sa antite ek son Board.

163 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 Non, (3) in fact what you should realize is that (1), (3) and (4) are all interrelated 2) it stands alone.

Ya, this is what the Minister, this is what I think the Government intended in the first place.

Mersi Mr Chairman.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

Minis, wi?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair les mon a propoze ki (1) i lir “Pursuant to Article 158, the Auditor-General shall audit the accounts public enterprises, established as statutory corporations or may appoint an external auditor to do so”.
the of Seksyon (3) savedir then ou pa bezwen li, then ou annan seksyon (2) “Accounts of the public enterprises not falling under subsection (1) shall be audited by appointed by” sa i ok. Zis lo seksyon clause (4) “An external auditor’s report shall be reviewed, endorsed and acknowledged by the Auditor General”, that should only be in the case of (1).

So, if we agree with (1) as I have proposed, then (4) moves to (2) and then (2) becomes (3).

MR SPEAKER And (3) is deleted.


Ok, mon krwar sa propozisyon i kler si Manm.

Onorab Aglae?

in met i HON EGBERT AGLAE Mr Speaker, mwan mon oule met latansyon pa lo sa pwen clause ki zot pe koz lo la.

Lo clause 80 petet i annan en li rezon akoz zot koumsa;- annan apre similarite avek clause 24 kot i konsern “Termination and resignation” eski pa ti kapab petet dan en sel clause swa dan 24 ki ou ti a kapab enkorpor tou akoz i annan repetisyon ladan?
Ouswa eski i annan en rezon akoz zot in met li koumsa - 80 ek 24?

MR SPEAKER Ok, premyerman mon bezwen zis verifye ki nou’n aksepte laranzman ki Minis in propoze ki solve mon krwar bann problenm ki’n ganny leve, ok?

That’s done.

Dan 80, wi mon en pe - Kote ou pe fer referans Onorab Aglae?

Ki seksyon?

Yes, wi Onorab Pillay?


HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY Zis pou Minis fer sir i ganny the wording right, nou pe koz “the Auditor General shall audit the accounts of the public enterprises established as statutory corporations or may appoint an external auditor to 164 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 do so” “or may” “not shall appoint” or “may appoint”.

MR SPEAKER Onorab Aglae ki pwen dan 80, mon pa tro anvi retourn lo 80 en akoz mon amendment la ki’n ganny propoze.
pa war ti zis HON EGBERT AGLAE Mr Speaker en klarifikasyon lo la, akoz mon war poudir i annan en repetisyon.

Si zis leklersisman pou ler zot pe koz lo sa “Chief Executive Officer” dan 24 kot i konsern bann “Termination and resignation” eski la nou pe koz zis pou “the Commission” ouswa nou pe koz pou bann SOEs li menm li dan 80.

Akoz i annan en repetisyon mon pe war, 24 e 80. son MR SPEAKER Ok, Minis a kapab klarifye, mon krwar mon kapab war.

Minis, yes Minister?

MINISTER NAADIR HASSAN Mersi Mr Chair.


Mersi Onorab.

I pe koz lo 2 diferan “CEO” la, 1 i lo “the CEO of the public enterprise” 1 is the “CEO of the Commission”.

So, that’s the difference.

MR SPEAKER Ok, Hoareau next one.

that’s done.

Onorab HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair nou lo aprezan paz 49 e mon war poudir tou keksoz i agreed la.

Nou al lo paz 50 ki ankor nou’n vwar bann sanzman in ganny agree.

MR SPEAKER Wi, Onorab Loze?


HON JOHAN LOZE Mersi Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker 91(2)(a) “annually, at such time as the Minister may determine or as resolved in its annual general meeting, submit to the Minister” “the Minister submit to the Minister”.

MR SPEAKER “The Board shall, the Board shall at such time as the Minister determine submit to the Minister” so, its “the Board submit to the Minister”.

Next one.
Next one.

HON JOHN HOAREAU Mersi Mr Chair, nou lo paz 51 and clause 93 an montan, 94 nou ok. paz 52 clause 95, 96, 97 tousala mon war in ganny aksepte.

Paz 53, clause 98,99, a 100 mon krwar in ganny aksepte.

E nou al lo paz 54 mon war ankor 101,102,103,104 in ganny aksepte.

Nou al lo paz in ganny 55 clause 105 aksepte ki i annan en removal of 105(5), e nou al aprezan lo 165 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 paz 56 mon war i annan en renumbering ganny konsidere la.
ki’n Paz 57 i ok, napa naryen.

Paz 58 ankor sa ki’n propoze in ganny aksepte.

Paz 59 sa ki’n ganny propoze en pti tipografi in ganny aksepte.

Schedule 3 napa naryen lo la.

61 ankor i annan en pti mistake ki’n ganny agree.

62 ankor in ganny agree.

Paz 63 osi in ganny agree.

Paz 64 napa okenn issues, paz 65 ki dernyen sa osi in ganny agree.
Avek sa Mr Speaker nou fini nou seri amendments lo Public Enterprise Monitoring Commission Act e mon oule profit sa lokazyon pou remersi tou dimoun ki’n partisipe, ki’n donn sipor sa Bill osi e Minis pou son letan e tou leres Manm.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi Onorab.

Bon nou’n konsider bann amannman, lamannman ganny propoze in ganny aksepte.

E nou a pran Mosyon pou Third Reading, Onorab Georges.

ki’n HON BERNARD GEORGES Mersi Mr Chair.


Mr Chair anba Order 76(1) mon move ki The Public Enterprises Bill, 2023 as painfully lengthily and amended lir en Trwazyenm Fwa.

Mersi i ganny Nou a ganny segonde, Onorab Esparon.

Onorab Arissol ki pou segonde, wi go ahead.

HON SANDY ARISSOL Mon ava segonde parski Onorab Esparon son mikro batri in down, Mr Speaker mon gladly segonn Mosyon prezante par Onorab Georges.

Mersi.

MR SPEAKER Mersi.

mon ava apel bann Manm pou vot lo… HON SANDY ARISSOL As amended.
MR SPEAKER …lo Bill as amended pou Third Reading, Manm ki an faver lev lanmen silvouple?

Thank you.

Manm ki kont?

Mersi.

Lo Formal Third Reading Public Enterprises Bill, 2023 as amended 16 Manm in vot pour, 0 kont e 8 abstansyon, Bill in aprouve par Lasanble.

Madanm Clerk a prosede avek Third Reading.

MADANM CLERK Mersi Mr Speaker.

This Act may be cited as the Public Enterprises Act, 2023 and shall come into operation on such date as the Minister may, by notice published in the Gazette appoint.
Mersi.

MR SPEAKER MR SPEAKER 166 Verbatim Report NAS Sitting Wednesday 24th May 2023 in pase par Mersi Bill Lasanble.

Mon a tap en marto lo la akoz in vreman en long travay.

Mon remersi bann Manm pou zot partisipasyon e Minis osi pou avek nou ozordi pou travay lo sa Bill.

Nou’n oubliye retourn dan Lasanble pou Third Reading, nou a retourn dan Lasanble.
Zis en pti soz ki Manm Komite Communicable Diseases HIV/AIDS e SRHR Committee dan Lasanble in demann mwan, se pou azoute ki zot osi zot enplike dan en rankont enternasyonal avek SADC PF lo dan kad en Shareholders Meeting lo zot nou travay zot komite.

E sa pou pran plas Lendi e i annan plizyer bann Manm lo sa ki mon ete k i pou enplike ladan enkli son Chairperson Onorab Bistoquet.

Donk, mon swet zot bon kouraz pou sa travay.


Mon remersye bann Manm pou lazournen e nou ava adjourn la e nou a repran Lasanble Mardi prosen 9er, adjourn.

(ADJOURNMENT) 167