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I 54023001109187 <"=V t% REPORT PROCEEDINGS IRISH CONVENTION $rí5tnttíi to $arltamtttt bit (íommanb of fits iïtajfstit.

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1918.


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DRAWING OF, REPORT \Ud*t¿i eU vurL' pÍUá&i, LIST OF CONTENTS.
Irish Convention to the Prime Report of the Proceedings of the 1hi.su Convi Report of the Ulster Unionist Delegates to ' ie Irish Co Note bi the Provost of Trinity Collbqx am> ti •; Archbishop of Ar.uagh Report by Twenty-two Nationalist Mbhbbbs <>i the Irish Convention- Note by the Majority t>F the Nationalist .Ml.mii HS of the Irish Convention Note by the Majority of the Labour Representatives Note by the Earl of Dunraven Note by Southern Unionists Appendices (See List, page 49) ¿°l C\\X LETTER OF TRANSMISSION FROM THE CHAIRMAN OF THE IRISH CONVENTION THE PRIME MINISTER.
The Right Honorable D. Lloyd George, M.P., Prime Minister, 10 Downing .Street, London, Sir, I have the honour to transmit herewith the Report of the Proceedings of the Irish Convention.

.
.

the Report the objections of the Ulster Unionists, For the immediate object of the Government tells all that needs in the Convention, whilst it was not found possible to to be told : it shows that all overcome the Southern Unionists, and five out of the seven Labour representatives were agreed set out in Paragraph 42 of the Report that should be immediately passed propose a scheme which differs in only one important The Convention has, therefore, in history.

from that of the majority.


laid a foundation of Irish agreement unprecedented into law.

A minority of Nationalists the scheme of Irish self-government of Nationalists, a majority particular I recognise that action in Parliament upon the result of our deliberations must largely depend upon public opinion.
Without which, at the termination of presenting results what a knowledge of the circumstances of our proceedings, compelled us to adopt an unusual method the public might be misled as to our of our deliberations, achieved.

the actually necessary therefor?, explain been has is, to It procedure.

We had every reason to believe that the Government contemplated immediate legislation upon the results of our labours.

pended at the outbreak of the war, is now felt to admit of no further postponement.
The work of an Irish settlement, sus- A2 4 In the Dominions and in the United States, as well as in other allied countries, the c^ unsettled Irish Question is a disturbing factor, both in regard to war effort and peace ^ aims.

Nevertheless, urgent as our task was, we could not complete it until every possi- ( bility of agreement had been explored.
The moment this point was reached—and you will not be surprised that it took us eight months to reach it—we decided to issue our Report with the least possible delay.

To do this we had to avoid further con- troversy to draft a Report which should be a mere narrative of the Convention's proceedings, with a statement, for the information of the Government, of the conclusions adopted, • whether unanimously I was, therefore, on March 22nd, instructed or by majorities.

and protracted debate.


\i It was hoped that this Report might be unanimously signed, and it was under- tlie P^ that any groups or individuals would be free to append to give expression on March 30th, and discussed to it such statements The Draft Report to their views.

and amended on April 4th and 5th.

stood as they deemed necessary was circulated The accuracy of the narrative was not challenged, difference of opinion as to the relative parts of the proceedings.
upon a Majority Report, nor upon any Minority Reports or other statements which W.1 might be submitted.

Chairman A limit of twenty-four reports other adjourned to some it was decided not to have any discussion prominence which should be given The Draft Report was adopted and Secretary were ordered hours was, by agreement, to sign it, and forwiird there was considerable it to the Government.

As time pressed in the afternoon by a majority, the Convention or statements, the reception of April 5th sine die.
H of any gira the ™ though upon and put and top the The public is thus provided with no Majority Report, in the sense of a reasoned tiro from upon which the majority the narrative are agreed, but of proceedings what in favour of the conclusions statement left to gather would have been.

On the other hand, both of the Nationalists the Convention's agreement I conceive as are required to gain a clear idea of the real effect and significance of the Convention's the disagreement.
to submit the reader of the Report and the accompanying reached, it to be my duty as Chairman the contents the Ulster Unionists have presented Minority Reports enquiry.

and of this procedure is to minimise In these circumstances, observations documents achievement.

is tan of such a report and a minority m the whole field of ol fa such explanatory The result to emphasise covering to enable the the greatest obstacle that, of recent years, facts of the Irish Question.
I may assume a knowledge of the broad It will be agreed lias been the Ulster difficulty.

There seemed to be two possible issues to our deliberations.

If a scheme of Irish self-government to which the Ulster Unionists then the Convention might produce a unanimous Report.

would give their adherence, Failing such a consummation, we might secure agreement, between stantial, tives.

Many entertained new development would be to induce Ulster the effect of such a striking its position.
representa- and wholly the Southern Unionist to its settlement could be framed and the Labour the Nationalist, to reconsider complete the hope or sub- either that I in striving Perhaps unanimity was too much to expect.
Be this as it may, neither time for that goal, and there were moments when its nor effort was spared a portion of Ulster where a attainment if Ireland had the right to separate herself from the rest majority claimed that, of the United Kingdom, they had the same right to separation from the rest of Ireland.

But the time had gone by when any other section of the Irish people would accept There was, however, seemed possible.

„ , i.
„ , i.

(» [, » '/ L tl , 5 remained represented of their country even as a temporary the partition Unionist members in the Convention of Home Rule would be proposed which might modify to have neither they Nationalists to win them by concessions to accept any of the schemes discussed and they presented Province.

the Convention was confined strove ; but part nor to to Hence, expedient.

the Ulster there only in the hope that some form of those the determination The unable Irish Parliament.
lot in an they found themselves the only scheme of Irish government* the exclusion of their entire Long before the hope of complete unanimity had passed, the majority of the before in the brought it offered shows that It accepted The Report compromise.

representation in December self-government the possibilities between first Lord Midleton was the Southern Unionists.

to this end.
to this end.

and of agreement the Convention were considering and proposal Committee, workable special minority Nationalists, and administration But, although Exchequer, Imperial greater the imposition Irish Parliament.

two words—Ulster in November he outlined the Convention, what the Nationalists to make a concrete to the Grand like a looked for In return conceded by the legislation and Excise.

the Irish to the duties.


the by this one question, whether the control of the The difficulties of the Irish Convention may be summed up in to that Parliament in matters insisted upon to fix the the Southern Unionists of the power time and attention was occupied should or should not be under complete power over internal Parliament part of our for Ireland.

already of Customs duties Irish Parliament, rates of Customs should be paid the permanent and Customs.
the Customs they agreed over direct of finance, reservation taxation revenue By far and, into that The Ulster difficulty the whole world knows ; but how the Customs question thought in the Convention, among constitutional that could be reached came to be one of vital principle, upon the decision of which depended agreement, needs to be told.

of recent political form of government since naval for unrestricted upon a demand Ireland would, according enjoyed by the Dominions.

fiscal powers.
fiscal powers.

Without fail to attain position of Ireland the claim the geographical and military as closely as possible imposes obvious to this view, Nationalists resembling affairs, restrictions has been'towards that of the Dominions, the amount of The tendency a and, in respect of separate Customs and Excise status a national that like for Dominion Home Rule was concentrated a of that case, strong settlement.
in Ireland, and were it was feared a considerable fiscal autonomy made leading Upon this issue the Nationalists number as part of an Irish able, come to state of the Con- tosecure of the trade of the United Kingdom commercial men had to prove the present favour that without Customs no scheme public opinion vention recommended would receive a sufficient measure of popular support legislation.

the Nationalists were prepared two countries.f who on this point agreed with the Ulster LTnionists.
They were apprehensive a separate .system of Customs of the United Kingdom over its external the the difficulties of the .Southern Unionists, that trade policy.

Neither could they consent to asgree to a free trade arrangement control, however guarded, might But this did not overcome any serious disturbance the authority To obviate between impair In *See Appendix XIV.

tAs to tin.

icsi'i'vation tsrcities.


see paragraph 19 of the Report to the Imperial Government of the power to negotiate commercial .signed by the Nationalist minority, p. 39 infra.

Il to any settlement which was, in their judgment, incompatible with Ireland's full .

participation in a scheme of United Kingdom federation, should that come to pass.
.,, 6 obje« tkf It was clear that by means of mutual concessions agreement between the Nationa- lists and the Southern Unionists could be reached on all other points.

On this im- portant point, however, a section of the Nationalists, who have embodied their \ Lews in a separate Report, held that no compromise was possible.

On the other hand, a majority of the Nationalists and the whole body of Southern Unionists felt that .
nothing effective could result from their work in the Convention unless some under- , standing was reached upon Customs which would render an agreement on a complete j¡ ; but both ^ scheme attainable.

sides were willing, to post- pone a legislative the same Report, been reached upon the cardinal of resolutions which should be at once established, control of Customs and Excise.

* in separate notes subjoined of this question.


j£i At y, jfj the A decision having (;m carried a series tit Neither in order that a Parliament the ultimate decision upon time each party has put on record, the final settlement issue, the majority of the Convention form a complete side was willing to surrender scheme of self-government.
its claim respecting the principle together to ' ( r administration This scheme provides Ireland with an Executive legislation, imposition question, remain with but Imperial taxes shall be paid into the Irish Exchequer.

the Irish up to determine Board of Customs for the establishment responsible and direct the Parliament, it is provided revenue, true that the that of a Parliament for the whole of to it, and with taxation.
Pending full powers over all internal a decision of the and Excise of duties of Customs Pai toi .

the whole of the proceeds A joint Exchequer Board is to be represented and Ireland fiscal shall of these is to be set tho upon and Excise of the United Kingdom.
go The principle first by the from was felt, however, sentatives directly of representation in the the Southern Unionists, that there were strong Imperial and reasons Parliament the Nationalists for providing that was insisted conceded the Irish rather upon it.

It repre- than at Westminster should be elected by the Irish Parliament by the constituencies, and this was the arrangement adopted.

It was accepted to the cost of Imperial in the Convention in principle services but, owing to lack of data, sum.
to fix any definite there that should be an Irish contribution it was not found possible It was agreed that the Irish Parliament should consist of two Houses—a Senate i to commerce, industry, and labour, and a House of Commons of 200.

The principle underlying of 64 members the composition of the Senate is the representation of interests.

This is effected by giving the County Councils, the Churches, representation learned institutions and the Peerage.
the House of Commons the Nationalists offered to guarantee to the Unionists.

that, for Unionists could only It was agreed be secured by nomination the of Convention of Ulster nomination, by direct that provision was made had informed the principle forty per cent, of its membership they spoke could not accept in the scheme for an extra in the South, adequate ; but, as the Ulster In constituting representatives representation representation for whom election.
those The majority of the Labour representatives Nationalists provisions of which they found themselves and Southern Unionists in building up the associated the the in general asgreement.

They frankly themselves with constitution, with •See I'riine Minister'» letter of 25th February, 1918, p. 2(1 infm.
■ 7 representation objected, however, to the principle of nomination and tp what they regarded as the our pro- inadequate ceedings Nor did they press in such a manner as to make more difficult the work, already difficult enough, of agreeing upon a constitution.

in the Upper House.

the attainment towards of Labour in every way Throughout of agreement.
their own special claims they helped I trust I have said enough to enable the reader of this Report upon the nature judgment and the accom- and difficulties While, it would be its actual situation in history consistently with Ministerial achievement.
for our country, to form an accurate the Convention and upon to draft a constitution to be found a system of government I might almost say which survives only because panying documents task the before of it was our function technically, more correct to say that we had to find a way out of the most complex and anomalous political living under it cannot, legislation While Government, the seeking Parliament could be adopted.
to press for a settlement opinion which, as I have shown, had been a formidable to further to amend.

with the insistence that In in Irish agreement.

Ireland might accept and of no party to your the war, of the question to agreement would be to a settlement was to be found to find a compromise which law—it has been recognised The Convention was also bound into operation without that which in fiction.
We are the Act abolishing no less difficult responsibility in full accerd with ypiir of the early establishment to give due weight iiiis-i hopeful path it has primarily the full programme of self-government and contrpyersial the Convention pledges, be put to our problem at Westminster, -in attempting for a solution the prospect in Ireland.
pass into obstacle imperil during found itself than rests that this that the Notwithstanding measure of agreement government embodying call the Irish Convention the difficulties with which we were has been reached upon the principle Is it too much to hope that a surrounded, larger and details of Irish self- the scheme to whose be brought to fruition by those than has ever yet been attained.

this agreement will forthwith has now responded ?


I have the honour tp be, Sib, Ypur pbedient servant, HORACE PLUNKETT.

8th April, 1918.

REPORT OF THE PROCEEDINGS OK THE IRISH CONVENTION.

1.
1.

Tlie nature of the task which the Irish Convention was called into existence to the late the First in the letter which the Prime Minister addressed the 16th May, 1917. is described letter In the letter of invitation which the Prime Minister in the the scope of its work is described is reprinted This as to the members of the Convention .lohn Redmond to perform Mr.

Appendix to this Report.
addressed words quoted below :— on " The terms of reference to the Convention are set forth from a letter on the subject which was lately addressed Irish parties of Commons the House :— in in the following passage to the leaders of the principal ' Would it be too much to hope that Irishmen of all creeds and parties together might meet for their country which should and finally compose and impeded I further its harmonious to this matter referred in a Convention for the purpose of drafting secure a just balance of all the opposing the unhappy discords which have so long distracted ? '
development in the House of Commons in these words :— a constitution interests.

Ireland ' The Government the Crown a Convention the British Government within the Empire.'

" therefore propose of representative a constitution to summon Irishmen immediately in Ireland, for the future government on behalf of to submit to of Ireland 2.

Invitations were extended to the Chairmen of the or Mayors of the six County Boroughs requested Ireland were throughout from each province.
The Irish Parliamentary Irish Unionist Alliance were each An invitation was extended representatives; to the Archbishop two four Party and the Invitations representatives, of Dublin.

Belfast five representatives.

to appoint of Dublin «ere appointed the Lord Mayors of the Urban Councils of the General Assembly were also extended Councils, Chairmen eight the LTster Parliamentary to nominate Catholic Hierarchy the Archbishop and and the Moderator in Ireland.
Commerce representative these Invitations All Councils of Dublin and Cork.

to appointed were Convention lost Alexander McDowell), and two by resignation reduced the number to ninety.

the Government, During except representation the Trades represent peers of Ireland were accepted to secure party were declined, and various its members ninety-live.
* and Cork, three of invitations by death represent nominated intended invited Ireland «ere for I.y to the as were Subsequently, Labour Council labour ; whilst thirty-three Comity the to appoint Party, invited the Roman of Armagh the Church of Ireland, Church the Presbyterian organisations, of 'the Chambers and of the All their number.

of a County Council.


the to the Trades selected six persons were fifteen other persons the the Convention extended to one member and of to represent tu represent to the Chairmen to Labour and two of to select by one Chairman of invitations in addition of Belfast, the Sinn Fein party organisations, the making its proceedings and total membership the course of (Sir Henry Blake.

Jlr.

Redmond, and Sir (Mr. Lysaght and Mr. Russell) which :>.
The first meeting of the Convention was held on July 25th, 1917,in the Regent Co together with a large number for offices, iss House, Trinity College, which, had, by the courtesy of the Provost and Fellows of Trinity College, been p] at who delivered an address, and the Convention then proceeded to elect Sir Horace Plunkett as Chairman, and Sir Francis Hopwood, now Lord Southborough, as The Chair was taken by the Chief Secretary, the disposal of the Convention.
of rooms *A lisi of the members of the Convention Secretariat and Committees will be found in Appendix 11.

10 I ' Secretary.
10 I ' Secretary.

The second, third, and fourth meetings were occupied with the adoptipn pf Standing Orders, the consideration of the general course of procedure to be followed, and the appointment of a Grand Committee ef twenty members for the purpose of consulting with the Chairman as to the general procedure to be adopted by the Convention, and of exercising such powers as might from time to time be delegated to it bv the Convention.

This Committee held twenty-two meetings.

tit 4.


The procedure adopted by the Convention was carefully thought out.

and is fully explained in the letter of the Chairman to the members, dated 17th August, 1917, which is printed as the Third Appendix to this Report.
Its object was to ensure the fullest and frankest expression of opinion, to enable members to know each other's point of view and, at the same time, to avoid raising con- tentious issues in such a way as to divide the Convention upon party lines.

This end was successfully attained by means of what came to be called the Presentation the various schemes for the future government of Stage.
Ireland which had been submitted to the Convention, whether by members or by persons who were not members, the Grand Committee.

All the schemes that this body thought suitable for discussion were then to be presented in turn to the Convention.

While they were being debated no decisions were criticism, whether destructive that When the Convention.

munications disclosure of the deliberations of the Convention.

conditions circumstances that improvement so in the best form.
the future procedure was to be decided by the com- to be or constructive, was to be directed the several proposals should be placed before the Convention The speeches made were not officially to the press were worded reported, so as to avoid any undue or premature this stage had been concluded, of views would be possible It was decided that a more unrestrained, It was thought it was generally these under that under should be considered understood of greater exchange towards publicity.
issued taken, their first and than and by Convention.

]hfffifth's?, for the work, actual until special enjoyed which exhibited, proposals meeting, necessary to enable was found consideration of departure, Host of by measure by met for three of Ireland which in order the and which circumstances adjournment to carry the self-government.

these schemes the Dominions, the preliminary future government of the schemes in their main outline thought suitable 21st.
From 27th, out the for discussion date followed but they was thought of Ireland, this the Convention, with the general did not begin until the the twenty-second days business the Grand fifth meeting on in each « eek.

had which the of in a varying degree, 5.

A short Grand Committee of considering Committee on August September was occupied bisen presented.

government a certain necessitated Dominion was more marked, Rule Bills of 1886 and 1893 and the Government of Ireland Act of 1914.
Two of the schemes provided Parliament, constitution Several of the schemes provided should be established of a singles Irish in the with special powers of veto, and possibly or administration claimed and Excise.

in the Imperial the new Irish of the United Kingdom.

there the creation each province into a Provincial Grand Committee in respect of legislation initiative, Most of the schemes so far as that province was concerned.
* including Customs to be of type from type this to the Home of Ireland the special view of enabling and were framed with to fit into a future In and these plans more the departure closely approximated ; whilst some which the members that, legislatures that full control over all Irish authors the normal for an Irish Parliament by their from should be constituted for the continued Irish Parliament Irish Parliament, fédéralisation representation to a central representing in addition legislature complete suggested provincial taxation, favoured schemes some form of tla iJj: t» ifl re» ™ r ot ft tlii k thi to ai t I an Irish Parliament, with 6.
Apart from the main thereto, question whether should be established, responsible taxation debate on the schemes or voluntary of the power chiefly possess executive mitted should statutory national vi ith special any, Ireland tive obligations of the British and Irish Exchequers with regard and the question whether centred on the extent ; the over contribution of constitution to the adequate the Ireland expenditure, the of minorities the reference should have to the representation Imperial two Houses of there should be provincial legislatures.
question if in connection with defence ; what should be the respec- to land purchase including Irish Parliament, ; what power, should make a the Irish Parliament whether debt ; that ; an sub- * A M moraiislum <»a the subject oí Pnsv¡ssioi';il V, ■ ■ circulaUid to the Con- vention by Lord MacDonnell.

11 7.

Of the first twenty-two meetings, sixteen were held in Dublin, three in the City Hall.

Belfast, and three in the Crawford Technical Institute, Cork.
It was generally felt that the hospitable invitations received from these two cities ought to be accepted in view of the opportunity thus afforded to members of familiarising themselves with the widely different social and economic conditions which characterise different parts of the country.
Full advantage was taken of this opportunity, and it was the opinion of all members that the results of these two visits in promoting a fuller knowledge and understanding of Ireland more than compensated for any delays which they entailed.

8.

Before the sittings in Cork had concluded on September 27th, the following resolutions were carried unanimously :— 1. "

That on [he conclusion the various the Convention, discussed if possible meet the course of the debate."
the views and difficulties in the Convention be referred to prepare a scheme for submission of the debate schemes which have been submitted to the Grand Committee sittings at the present of to and in order to the Convention which would speakers during by the different expressed 2. "

That the Convention stand adjourned this week's sitting until the Grand Committee is in a position after to report."

decided to ask one of its members 9.


In order that the Grand Committee might fulfil the task thus delegated to the Heads of a Scheme be and ultimately agreed scheme.

in the Convention, was first asked by someone Bishop of form a basis of discussion the Convention, as representing in the form of a complete section it.
the Chairman which might placed before Mr. Redmond, to render other a political Raphoe, who consented this service, but he preferred in the Grand Committee it should be undertaken if possible, largest the the Heads of a Scheme.

leader.

to present The Chairman approached to draft than then that the 10.
A short interval was found necessary in order to enable preparations for Grand for reconstructed 11th, and decided the most effective means of carrying out its task would be, in the first instance, the work of the Grand Committee to be carried out.

That Committee, which Committj.ii, had been 11** Oe*., 1911 that to delegate nine members.

Sub-Committees and Police, on to deal with Electoral Systems of three other and Areas, Defence Subsequently, were appointed and Land Purchase.
the duty of finding a basis of agreement its new work, met on October to a Sub-Committee the Chairman, suggestion the of 11.

The Sub-Committee of Nine held fourteen meetings, and made dated two Reports Sub-Committee a Final of Nine, an Interim Report to the Grand Committee, Report dated November 21st.

* The procedure which they followed was to go through in- seriatim on formed on most of full agreement referred in arriving these provisional on the general scheme being reached.
as they conclusions were all contingent the Heads ol the Scheme the Grand Committee, to above.

at certain understandings They succeeded, the Heads, but provisional 15th and November ""' 0#-2utNo* 12.

The following statement shows (column 1) the Heads of the Scheme presented arrived by the Bishop of Raphoe, at by the Sub-Committee and of Nine (column :-- 2) the provisional conclusions Heads of Scheme.

Provisional Conclusions.

(The Act referred to in brackets is the Govern- ment of Ireland Act, 1914).

1.
1.

The Irish I'ari.iamhvt.

The Irish Parlia- The establishment of an Irish Parliament is snsist of the Kins:, an Irish House of accepted sis the basis of bhe deliberations.

.■si sen Irish 1 [«ms., ist iîommons.

2.

Powers .if the Irish Parliament.

The The powers of the Irish Parliament are to be Irish Parliament t.. have the general power to those set out in the scheme.

..ike laws for the peace, order and good gove_ lent of Ireland subject ¡strictions specified in 3 and I below.
to the exclusions and ■■ Sec Âppen lis I V. Heads of Scheme.

Provisional Conclusions.

3.

Exclusions from Power ment.

The Irish Parliament to make laws on the following matters:— of Irish Parlia- to have no power The gei ject to the following qualifications : are accepted restrictions rally, sub- (1) Crown and (Act, sect.

2 (1) ).

(2) Making of peace and war (including con- duct as neutrals).

(Act, sect.

2 (2) ).

(3) The Army and Navy, but (a) Assent of Irish Parliament required for conscription.
(b) The Irish Parliament may after raise and maintain a territorial five years force subject King, Conference, be represented, provided that in which assents.

to the authority of the Imperial the Ireland would and foreign relations (including (4) Treatic extradition).

Ireland to have power in respect the similar of commercial to dominions treaties.

(j) Dignities and titles of honour.


(6) Any necessary certain and buoys, beacons, be settled with the Military of Majesty in various control of naval harbours, lighthouses, powers regards as cables, wireless to the reference terminals, requirements to and Naval forces of His contingencies.

4.

Eestrictions (1) Prohibition of laws interfering with religious equality (Act, sect.

3).

N.B.

A sub-section should any existing legal penalty, be framed disadvantage tu on account of religious belief.
annul or disability, Sub-head (3), (a) and ferred for further consideration, the Defence.

lieport of (b).

These were de- pending the Sub-Committee on Sub-head (4) is reserved in so far as it gives to Ireland for consideration in the general question of the to Com- in regard connection with finance, powers of a Dominion mercial Treaties.

Sub-bead (6).

It is considered of harbours poses" of naval for naval should be substituted harbours."
and military that " control pur- for " control treatment Is accepted.

With regard ision for equal ¡ons qual bilitiea, hould in future must treatment etc., be annulled.

remaining at present.

proceed under to sub-head 1, the pro- of religious denomina- That from a basis of the dis- the Act of 1829 is, (2) Safeguard ¡if desired) and Queen's University of Act.

for Trinity College to section 42 similar (3) Money regal message to be founded bills (Act, sect.

10 (2) ).
10 (2) ).

only on Vice- (4) Privilege of members of Irish Parliament to be limited as in Act (Act, sect.

12).

(5) Rights of existing Irish Officers to be safeguarded (Act, sects.

32-7).

5.

Constitutional of the Irish Parliament is a subject which should be considered by a Sub-Committee.

Amendments.

to amend its constitution The power It is agreed that Irish Parliament the should be considered the question of the power of to amend by a Sub-Committee.

its Constitution 6.
its Constitution 6.

Executive in Ireland power but exercisable the advice of an Irish Executive Committee the Lord Lieutenant through vested The executive in.the King, on in Authority.

to continue Is accepted, with Lieutenant the understanding is to be a non-political Lord that the per- out in Act (sect.

4).

7.

Dissolution Irish Parliament and dissolved as set out in Act (sect.

6).

of Irish Parliament.

to be summoned, The prorogued Is accepted.

Heads of Scheme.

8.

Assent to Bills.


r withheld as set out in Act (sect.

7).

Boyal assent to be gi .

Constitution (1) Lord Chancellor (2) Four Archbishops or Bishops of the of the House of Lords.

Roman Catholic Church (3) Two Archbishops or Bishops of the of Ireland of the General Church (4) The Moderator Assembly (5) The Lord Mayors of Dublin, Bel- fast and Cork (6) Thirty-nine Temporal Lords of House of Commons 10.
Constitution Irish House The members—162 to those set out Trades Union Congress, University, Queen's University.

the National and to consist of Commons.

of 168 similar of the Irish two each by Dublin the University and elected in the memorandum by constituencies transferable of proportional vote returns a constituency and no constituency representation to be observed or more to return more three The principle with a single wherever members, than seven.
During of Commons nominated and trade twelve the first twelve to represent of to represent The House of Commons to continue for five years unless previously dissolved.

accepted, for Is expressed their postponement.

the subject to a preference of Bills instead being of reservation The following modification he scheme was provisionally of the proposals approved: — in Constitution of Senate.
... or Bishops ... Church or Bishops ... Chancellor Lord Archbishops Catholic Archbishops of Moderator Lord Ireland Mavors Cork".
3 of Dublin, .. ... 1 of the Roman 4 oí the Church of the General Assembly ... ... 2 ... 1 Belfast and resident Councillors Peers Privy Representatives nated in Ireland ... ... ... of Commerce by Lord Lieutenant ..- 15 ... 15 nomi- ... 15 Labour Representatives ... province) (1 from each ... ... 4 Total 60 Assembly suggested that might the that the of Roman Catholic Bishops would be the Secretary added.

be an addition intimated that of to In it was It was General event number expected.
also It was the Privy Coun- cillors selected should be of two or three years' standing.

suggested that to the size of the Lower House', The size of the Senate must be considered considered relation was subsequently House came down luidilit be convenient, members.

of tin' details of the aboie This would that to 100 or 120 members to reduce the Senate and in it if the Lower it to 40 involve a reconsideration scheme.
It was agreed that House should be nominated the members of tin- Upper for, say, seven years.

in the Lower House; that ft was of, say, a substantial agreed offered, by effective means, per cent, Upper House men with The exact method left for further that substantial was suggested mum the that proposed this undemocratic size of the House number that, of arriving consideration, it could only be obtained element should the Unionists should be.
of forty in the be that should a proportion and thirty in forty, stake the country.

at but by this result was it was agreed including a It to a mini- in the House, than be smaller of nominated members.

in order to reduce in the scheme.

that should continue the nominated element for not less suggested of this nominated appearance tion should be made House.

for further the dis- that, on an addi- element, to the numbers of the Upper This might be done and was reserved consideration.
of Report N.B.—The the Sub-Corn- that after these provisional it was had been arrived at (1th Nov.), desirable interim mittee of Nine stated conclusions considered representa- tives their Advisory Committee with avicw to discovering huw jar Ihr to the composi- arrangement tion of the two Houses of Parliament was likely Having to prove acceptable.
this course, that communicate the Ulster with proposed with regard should taken ten years of the Irish House to be additional members the industries, commerce the North-east of the Southern Unionists.

Ireland, and It was stipulated in the Lower House ten years.

than Lord Midleton Heads of Scheme.


visional Conclusions representation mbcrVôth, that the Advi- //icy intimated, on Novt able to approve of the sug- ciurtj Committee icen: un gestion that the Utet in the ,r Lower House should be by the addi- strengthened They tion of a number of non considered nomi- embers noted members Unionists could hi defended but isideratio^s did not apply représentatives th< to represent to nominated members.
and might be accepted, to Southern proposal include thai The Ulster i:i,(r nub in it proposal* I'lster try means tion which had been contemplated.

* for safeguarding other than the the extra the in the case of to of undertook interests representa- IL.

Money Bills.

Money bills to originate only i the House of Communs : rejected by the House of Lords (Act, sect.

and not to be amende'I 12.

Disagreements between agreements by joint sittings between Houses.
the two Houses Dis- to be solved as set out in Act (sect.

11).

13.

Representation in the Parliament at Westminster.

Repre- of the United King- to cease until there is a federal parliament.

sentation dom Representation at Westminster.

representatives intimated non.

On the Nationalist while of representation pend- ing Federation of the United Kingdom, they did not iooi-c upon The Unionist this was a sine qua it was stated that, the as a sine qtia non.
in the Imperial they did not continuance Parliament, that side favour its cessation that any must have It was agreed at Westminster ate and vote on all questions.

Irish The question whether representative?

Irish full power to deliber- representatives elected by Westminster gated further presence House Unionists delegation members should be directly Irish Parliament the was consideration.

Tt was suggested in element of Commons would probably of a nominated for a time appointed larger by elected.
directly representation that House reserved thai at or dele- for the Irish the in a than by the give lie ved for further ennsideratk ¡i- it a. guarantee i iii.

and The Nationalist Kepresentatives wi n Trade o I' Five .-'■■■■ ei '■' between term of years.

thai such a guarantee Irish control of Customs Ireland, for a at any The Unionists were of opinion the inconsistent rate was with and Excise.

14.

Finance.

the powers of the over control to complete and excise.

The provision (No.

2 al.ove.


Irish Parliament finance, including gives customs An Irish exchequer rousnlirlated and an Irish Controller and he established to be appointed tor-General (sect.

14(1) and sect, (21).

as set out to fund and Audi- in Act isary, taxes at present tinue Parliament it should leviable be declared in Ireland should that all con- the Irish to be levied and collected until otherwise decides.
The between tr.-insitiun necessary Great adjustments of and Ireland Britain revenue during as the period should be made.

15.
As soon as may be after the passing of a agree postal, the other half one-half to represent to represent by His Majesty trade, tlie Act a joint Commission, bers of which shall be chosen and shall 1 P appointed and upon iiniiii) between Creat Britain shall aim at securing interests where or parallel or capable of being united advantage interests the for the mem- Ireland Great Britain to negotiate customs and Ireland, which the mutual in all such matters or connected for mutual in other matters where» their to provide the : and are separate or competitive interests with and promoting are common, fair pursuit of these of both countries interests their and Milice to both countries.
* These proposal'; were not su I unit led under the ci »ppendix IV.

(gee p. 59).

Hi St hi: of within The convention as agreed shall be submitted to the parliaments of both countries, and, if not disapproved the next 30 days, shall become of force and effect for a period of 10 to modification years by or re- mutual moval shall to both parliaments, Every modification in like manner be submitted and be subject to their approval.

agreement.
agreement.

renewal subject or the nation agreed to arrive the Commission if fails convention ot by either parliament, at an agree- If is upon or ment, thr most disapproved favoured to the matter foreign country shall become operative as between both countries, and shall of His Majesty.

in force relating a government, in question, or with a dominion force by a proclamation whether with be brought terms into Contribution-.
the fix to the cost of Imperial contribution considering the ability of her population, Ireland irretvi.

:s The over-taxation Imperial 16 ment shall shall make administration, economic tection and navy.

pas!

and her share set off against which in the national each other.

which defence The- Irish Parlia- Ireland and and the pro- army in the debt may be financial and from of Ireland the Ireland to have no share in revenue Shares, of the Imperial Government etc.)
(Suez Canal As from of any assume made banks, in etc.

services, liability the passing the for all and Ireland, of the Act or the Irish Government loans that for deposits transfer should have been in savings The question the next of section.

in land purchase is dealt with 17.

Land Purchase.

The all responsibility excess stoek, all payment« and bonus, to be made Irish Government for land purchase to be entitled by tenant and to assume loans, to receive purchasers.
Future loans or can be made, on the credit ot the to be made on the credit of the if satisfactory arrange- imperial Irish Government, ments I ¡oi ernmeni.

,-eheme of land An equitable would be compulsory where voluntary aller a certain provision total period, bargains on owner and are not could he sanctioned.

that purchase tenant alike, forthcoming The at bonus and for excess stock 0,000 a year.

Reserved for further consideration the question of Finance.
tion with alist members their tribution, method recognition though and amount.

of the Sub-Committee of the principle reserving their in connec- The Nation- recorded of such a con- to views as i'ved for consultation investigating with this question.

the Sub < subsidy from will, owing The agreements of money, than eases Another million, the unsold areas.

an Imperial for discharging an [mperial contribution.

one.
one.

and it the tax payer to changes for pending in the price he at a much greater in pending it was in the eases already completed.

rate or more, may be needed The whole obligation for is largely should get credit the question of Ireland in considering is.

[udicial Power.

The following pro oí the Government of Ireland Act to be adopted: (a) Safeguarding position of existing Irish Judges i \rt, seel 32).
(b) Leaving of future appointment i" the Irish Government removal from both Houses of Parliament Judges and their to the Crown on address (Act, i.

27).

Agre« efl'ectn upon the Unionists iditioually representation ment.

that should not be a political officer, but that his salary as Speaker of the Senate should be placed on the Estimates.

hav- in the Irish Parlia- the Lord Chancellor It was agreed Heads of Scheme.
(c) Transferring from appeals the House of Lords to the Judicial Committee, by Irish strengthened (Act, sect.

28).

Judges (dj Extending to this Court.

(Act, sect.

28 (4) and sect.

30 (1-2) ).

right of appeal (e) Provision as to reference of validity to Judicial Committee (Act, sect.

29).

of questions 19.

Lord Lieutenant.

to hold office for 6 years, no religious disqualification The Lord Lieutenant and to be subject (Act, sect.

31).

to 20.

Civil Service.


to be appointed A Civil Service Commis- to for admission competitive service, the exercise of higher patronage.

regulate to the public and sion examinations promotions, Provision future the appointed upon a scale appropriate in should be made salaries the of Irish public officials, the passing of the Act.

shall be after for ensuring that to Ireland.

that It was agreed the salary of the Lord Lieutenant should be sufficient to throw the post open to men not of great wealth.
that It was agreed the Lords Justices should lie subject to no religious disqualifications.

It was agreed that a strong Civil Service Com- mission should be established, and the following composition was suggested: — Lord Chancellor, appointed Chairman by ; two permanent the Lord Lieutenant, members and holding office, during good behaviour.

The practice of the English Commission Competitive to be followed examinations Civil Service as far as possible.

admis- to regulate as far as possible.


the Service Unionist as to the exercise members sion to The anxiety it was suggested might be added their interests.

having of patronage expressed in Ulster, two additional members to protect the Commission that to that It.

was patronage to be reviewed, and that be no unpaid Magistrates.
agreed the by the Lord Chancellor would present exercise of there should, require in future, A clause should be inserted requiring a scheme to the Public Service, to prepare Service Commissioners future appointments to be scheme any such appointments an instruction such a scheme, the financial and other circumstances to the Commissioners, laid before both Houses are made.

to devise a scale appropriate the Civil for such before It might be in framing of Ireland.

to Re ed for further consideration.

21.


Def Taking over certain igements aient, Ar: Services.

the Irish ( love tb taking chase, Old Age Pensions, Labour Exchanges, Banks, and Frundlv over to be made if they so desire, relating to Land National Irish to permit to defer Pur- Insurance.

Savings Post Office, Trustee Societies.

13.


It will be seen that on the majority of the above Heads it was the Sub-Committee of Nine, though in and 21) for further disagreement reserve certain Heads-or parts of Heads 9, 10, 13-17 with Finance, held on this matter which prevented on the general agreement of the conclusions character agreement arrived consideration.
could not be readied, (viz.. Head 3, sub-heads On two Heads, and it was the Sub-Committee from reaching scheme which was required to remove the contingent at on the other points.

there was no marked found necessary to (3) and (4), Heads 14 and 15 dealing the divergent views full that 14.

The position of the Sub-Committee set out in Appendix JV.
and may be summarised of Nine as regards as follows :— the fiscal issue is and Excise, by the Irish Parliament The Scheme presented contemplated dom, there should be no Irish representation for the exercise Customs a Trade, Postal, and Customs Union between Great Unionist that Southern Unionists were prepared special consideration.

that, pending in the of complete the appointment Ireland.
The from Ulster insisting full control over finance should be left to the Imperial Parliament, while the to agree that Excise might be the subject of federation of the United King- provided including to negotiate to these proposals, imperial Parliament,and representatives of a Commission Britain those control over demurred suggested finance, and and 17 in an endeavour 15.
Lord Southborough, subject to an arrangement to find a compromise, submitted to the Sub-Committee of Nine certain proposals for giving to the Irish Parliament for Free Trade between Great full control of taxation, Britain and Ireland, and special provisions to meet the ease of dumping (see Appendix IV., Schedule III.).
Lord Southborough also submitted further proposals, which were a development of a suggestion previously made by Lord Midleton, that Customs should be reserved to the Imperial Parliament and that Excise should be specially considered.

Under these proposals (see Appendix IV..

Schedule VIII.)
Schedule VIII.)

the imposition of Customs Duties would remain with the Imperial Parliament, the collection would be carried out under the authority of a Joint Board, and an Irish to Imperial Services would be made a first charge againsl (he Customs contribution revenue.

The remaining sources of revenue would be under the control of the Irish Parliament.

to reach an agreement 16.


It was not found possible it the Sub-Committee of Nine might have no alternative but to report was feared that to the Grand Committee to that effect.

The Chairman of the Convention was, however, anxious that the Sub-Committee should make a closer examination of the arguments on the one side and the other.

He embodied this view in a letter dated certain November representatives Schedule IV.).
respectively, with a list of possible compromises to the Ulster and Nationalist (see Appendix 6th, enclosing lines, and addressed questions these upon IV.. t,„ p« ill!

'a.

»jj hi » ¿ 17.

Two sets of replies were submitted signed by four members (see Appendix (see Appendix Bj ■ fiscal autonomy similar (including IV., Schedule VI.).
The signatories control to that enjoyed by self-governing for securing over Customs to an arrangement Ireland, and except reasons which made in excisable them unwilling in , „ over taxation will be found for meeting proposals the fears of Unionists taxation) to agree Britain The control alternative former of the representatives, by the Nationalist and Excise as well one IV., Schedule V.), the other by one member set demanded as direct they were prepared for a term of years free trade between Great dumping.
any smaller measure of Irish These also contained in respect of fiscal autonomy.

articles, with a proviso against to accept their answers.

colonies, but felt by them.

18.

The Nationalists replies were communicated that and of views considered to reply disclosed was so great the"questions the to submitted their letter Chairman attitude and and declaring for Great Britain a common system of Finance, with one Exchequer, was a funda- IV., Schedule VII.).
mental They in the circumstances the divergence that no useful purpose would be served by a formal they addressed statement them, of the Convention a on the financial problem, 14th a general their opinion to the Ulster representatives, of for Ireland and on November (see Appendix containing essential that to 1!).

The Chairman did not consider it necessary to address any questions to the representative Lord Midleton Customs specially considered.
having of the Southern Unionists, who occupied an intermediate on their behalf, put to the Imperial Parliament, position, forward that and that Excise should be a suggestion already, should be reserved 20.

In their Final Report of November 21st, the Sub-Committee the continued of their views on the to find a basis for agreement had not proved divergence of Nine stated financial success- in consequence of their endeavour that, question, ful.

* 21.
* 21.

In consequence of this report, the Grand Committee, on November 22nd, took Grand to frame a scheme for the future government up the task of attempting Eight meetings were held between November 22nd and December 13th ; the Nov' -2nd-DK- a'h first week proceedings Parliamentary duties of several members.. of Ireland.

Committee, in December interrupted to the during owing being the 22.
During these meetings the Grand Committee the provisional conclusions which had been reached by the Sub-Committee of Nine on the Heads The Report of the Sub-Committee on Electoral of the Scheme submitted in connection with Heads .Systems and Areas 9 and 10 relating the House of Commons, of the Sub-Committee were, for the most part, accepted and the recommendations and utilised.
the suggestion made by the Sub-Committee (see Appendix V.) was considered In accordance with of the Senate and to the constitution considered to them.

of *See Appendix IV., p. 70.

C 18 to consider the question of consti- The Report made by this Sub-Committee was adopted by in Head 5 of their Provisional Conclusions of a general scheme, were arrived at on most of the of Nine, provisional agreements, Nine, a special Sub-Committee was appointed tutional amendments.
the Grand Committee, and incorporated (Appendix VI.).

contingent Heads, Agreement opinion on this issue again prevented scheme.

certain Heads had the fiscal issue, however, As on the acceptance the Sub-Committee though upon in to be reserved for future could not be reached, and the attainment of a full agreement consideration.

* the conflict of on a general 23.


During in their answers the proceedings of the Grand Committee, the views of Nationalists in in favour of fiscal unity, as set favour of fiscal autonomy, forth IV.

), were further expounded, and Lord Midleton, on the 28th November, on behalf of the Southern their attitude defining Unionists, however, were unable on this question that to reach an agreement the matter must be referred laid before the Grand Committee (see Appendix VIL).
upon the fiscal issue, and they came to the conclusion to and of Ulster Unionists inquiries a memorandum The Grand Committee, to the Chairman's (see Appendix the Convention.

24.

Owing to important parliamentary business requiring the attendance at West- Convention, 23rd to 36th minster imTíT 21/.'.

./'tip.

in is aud what difficulties of Nine, of some members, I'll" w'len a statement was made by the Chairman, IV.)
already the Convention could not meet until encountered (Appendix together with a statement the 18th December.

showing what progress had been made (see Appendix VIII.

).

The Report of the Sub- amongst at arrived of (lie of Nine thereon (Appendix VI.).

The Reports of the Sub-( lommittees (Appendix during (Appendix V.),iand on Land Purchase the principal work of the Convention the 18th December, and Areas.
but held between to, was circulated conclusions the Heads of the Scheme and of the provisional 1917 and the 24th findings referred January, the the the Grand Committee upon Committee the Convention by Sub-Committee on .Electoral Systems IX.)

were also emulated; fourteen meetings 1918 was the considérai ion of tins fiscal difficulty.

25.
25.

In pursuance of his attempt for Ireland fiscal autonomy to find a compromise between and for the complete complete of the United Kingdom, Lord Midleton on the 2nd January, following Resolution the demand :— the demand for fiscal unity the 1918, introduced That, in the event of the establishment of an Irish Parliament, to the Parliament services, limitations be reserved Imperial above including Judicature 26.
Lord Midleton's proposals were amplified from time to time, in a. series of full authority of the Canted Kingdom levying of Customs duties, but subject shall control all purely and Police with interned taxation and administration.

including (he Irish Parliament the ¡here shall for all to til" Irish services!

should go to the duties He proposed (sec Appendix VIL).
and Kxcess Profits receiving memoranda of Customs Irish Exchequer to cover that might be necessary to the above, all forms of taxation, were to be controlled by the would continue Kingdom.

from such duties as would represent receipts Imperial services, by a Commission the proceeds of other the ascertained including Irish Parliament.
the amount of such contribution representing to be imposed under the authority The Imperial Exchequer would, however, the war Exchequer, that during cost of Irish Imperial taxes, and any additional the proceeds the amount Subject Excise, but excluding Customs duties, duties of the United retain only so much of the cost of to After of the Parliament the war Customs a fair contribution services.

the after enquiry to be determined 27.


Lord Midleton proposed, invested with should be set up and further, the following functions :— both Great Britain and Ireland.

that a permanent Joint Revenue Board (1) To determine the true Customs revenue of Ireland.

(2) To secure co-operation between the revenue authorities of the two countries with regard to traffic in excisable articles.

* The provisioned agreements arrived al sire recorded in Appendix VI.
In (3) To determine the respective claims of the British and Irish Govern- ments to levy direct taxation on the property or income of persons resident partly in Ireland, partly in Great Britain.

(4) To advise with regard to alleged cases of dumping to the injury of Irish industries.
(5) To recommend consumption duties in the case of Great Britain, in Ireland, total to the tax revenue reductions of general in the event of the proportion of ( 'ustoms and Excise duties on articles in Customs in Ireland exceeding the similar proportion, by fifteen per cent., in two successive years.

from amendments important The most 2sS.

Various the control of the resolution were proposed to an Irish Parliament.

support and to Lord Midleton's discussed at the meetings of the Convention on January 2nd.
3rd, 4th, 15th.

16th.

17th, 22nd, 23rd anil 24th.

* to withdraw Customs of all taxes proposal retaining willing of the Labour On the other hand, ment which deprived the Irish Parliament of the control of Customs ; nor did Lord Midleton's the raising .Midleton's members, who, while all sources of taxation, were ; and the to accept leave In the course of the debate.

Lord the majority same course.


any arrange- received the view that their of Nationalists readiness were unable to secure agreement Imperial Parliament, of the Ulster Unionist from a number proposals meet Ireland ought were designed his compromise the objections representatives.

of Nationalist amendments to control representatives a number to accept to follow expressed, in order and in that 29.
It therefore on the became apparent financial : the Convention insisting on complete issue there wire three the Ulster Unionists, the maintenance of the fiscal unity of the United Kingdom : a section of clearly defined bodies of opinion advocating Nationalists fiscal autonomy the Southern Unionists, with the adherence of other Nationalists and the majority of the Labour the proceeds of all sources members, of revenue, In these circum- stances, to communicate to the Con- vention on January the Prime Minister had sent him to use at his discretion a compromise which imposition advancing and the the Chairman it to be his duty letter which of all taxes other than Customs.
the following for Ireland; to Ireland considered 24th and left :— 10 Downing Street, Whitehall, S.W.

1.

21st Janvary, 1918.

Desír Sik Horace Plunk ett.

are sections.

on Saturday In our conversation I feel the Convention told me that The stage.

the situation issues should not come to a definite break without you has now reached a very critical Convention that Government having the opportunity of full consultation with the different If, and when, the Convention settlement, Cabinet.

be found.
be found.

lies within the Convention to assist enable a new Irish Constitution parties.
in the so grave the the leaders of at which an agreed the that a solution must the best hope of a settlement to do anything in their power to reach a basis of agreement, which would to come into operation with the consent of all that iind they are prepared finally therefore, it can make no further progress finds that I would ask that The Government representatives are agreed and determined But they are firmly convinced should be sent to confer with is reached towards the Convention a point Yours sincerely, D. LLOYD GEORGE.
•The sessions of the Convention held on the 8th, 9th, and 10th January, 1918, were devoted to the consideration of the Report of the Sub-Committee on Land Pinchase.

(See |siragn,|,li 4u iufm).

C il 20 30.
The debate on Lord Midleton's motion and on an amendment thereto moved by the Bishop of Raphoe, claiming control of Customs for the Irish Parlia- ment, the Prime Minister's the Convention letter and, after an exhaustive discussion, passed the following resolution : — having been suspended, considered " That the Convention thanks the Prime Minister for his letter, and, though it considers that it is, therefore, it does not feel the possibilities of agreement they may be increased by the acceptance nominating delegates arc exhausted, of his offer, and to confer with the Cabinet."
Delegation London.

to 31.

In accordance with this decision, a Delegation severally to London, interviews and had representative and collectively of all sections with the proceeded Prime Minister and other members of the Cabinet.

Convention, S7 ''.to 4!

'th February, when the Chairman made a report on the interviews 26sAi-et.-Mor.22nd between 32.

The Convention reassembled for its thirty-seventh the Cabinet, and.
read and the following session on the 26th that had taken place the letter from Prime Minister the Delegation ;— 10, Downing Street, London, S.W., 25lh February, 1918.

Dear Sir Horace Plunkett, I had the privilege of discussing, during the last so representative have better the Irish Convention with with the Government.
over a delegation The Government and to appreciate has now been reached within tions vital to the various groups Convention will recognise stand immediate longer than there has been no avoidable the delegates whom the Convention You will allow me to thank of all groups of opinion within thereby been enabled to learn than would otherwise the Convention.
conduct of the war has protracted have been possible I regret it was hoped would be necessary, appointed the situation three weeks, the Convention in to confer for sending the Convention.

the views of different parties, the position that the urgency of ques- the meetings with the but I am confident of the time and will under- that the exceptional delay.
circumstances The conclusions to which the Government have come as a result of their inter- views with the representatives of the Convention may be stated as follows :— The Government are determined shall not be in vain.

that, so far as is in their power, labours the report of the Convention, the ( invention On receiving to Parliament.
legislative proposals and will proceed with to submit the urgent importance The Convention has been brought fails of tin the Government will give it immediate attention, the least They wish, however, possible delay in and the to emphasise to endeavour Convention.

to find a the settlement settlement of this, incumbent on the the question will be much more difficult, but it will be a task the present Government.
the settlement situation and for future-good should come from an Irish assembly, and from mutual agreement among all parties.

It has been so in every Con- To secure this there must be concessions on all sides.

vention, from that of the U.S.A. to that of South Africa.

a settlement together to secure in and with Ireland If the Convention of the highest is, therefore, by consent.
importance of getting relations through both that for It There is, however, a further consideration which has an important bearing on During the period of the war it is neces- is an in Ireland or in Great Britain must be held over for in the possibilities of the present situation.

sary to proceed as far as possible by agreement.

acute difference of opinion determination and of the deliberations of the Convention view of previous attempts lies in a solution which, on the one side.
itself, safe- provides guards and, on tin, other, preserves the well-being of the Empire and the fundamental unity of the United Kingdom.

for the unity of Ireland under a single Legislature with adequate at settlement, the only hope of agreement it is clear to the Government, Questions on which there the Southern Unionists, At the same time the war.
of lister interests for the after that and 2] A settlement It is evident that there is on the part of all parties in the Convention a willing- ness to provide for and safeguard the interests of the Empire and of the United can now be reached which will reserve by common consent Kingdom.

to the and Foreign represen- tation at Westminster, and for a proper contribution from Ireland to Imperial expenditure.
All these matters arc now capable of being settled within the Con- vention on a basis satisfactory both to the Imperial Government and to Ireland.

Imperial Parliament and other its control of Army, Navy, services, while providing its suzerainty, Imperial Policy Irish and for such a disturbance to an Irish Legislature.

are aware of the serious objections which can be raised against There remains, however, the difficult question of Customs and Excise.
The the impos- relations of Great It might also be incompatible in favour of which there the should have some control the great majority touches Irish the greater part Government transfer of these services to make sible Britain and Ireland with is a growing body of opinion.

that strong claim over indirect taxation of revenue.

of the United Kingdom On the other hand, that an Irish Legislature as the only form of taxation which in the midst of a great war.
in the past has represented It would be practically of the fiscal and the Government re-organisation can be made the people, and which recognise financial federal that of The Government feel that this therefore is a matter which cannot be finally set I led at suggest for the consideration two years to the United Kingdom of the Convention the thereafter, Parlia- the period of the war and for a period of and Excise should as soon as possible, after lie reserved the should be set up Board Irish Parliament to secure provision which is essential to a .system of responsible to the making of a national balance should be established of Great Britain relations to Imperial the economic expenditure, and and to submit fiscal relations of the the determination that, sheet, and to re-examine Ireland, and has been established, of (he a true Irish at the end of and on the as to the impartially to report proposals two countries.
consider that during the period of the war the control of all than Customs and Excise could be handed over for the period of the war and two years thereafter should be fixed as the Irish contribution Imperial revenue expenditure from Customs and Excise as determined of the agreed Irish contribution to the Irish Parlia- an agreed proportion to Imperial ; and by the Joint Ex- expen- reasons, remain under for the same that Irish Exchequer.
the it is necessary to the Government that For administrative the Police to be desirable should the Postal service should be a reserved service.

securing of an Turning to the other essential a single Legislature element of a settlement—the Ireland that to establish the Convention has given much that one scheme, provides for an united agreement thought believe objection on the part of Unionists, North and South, stand nation or election.
a safeguard of Ulster Committee within exclude, stration which be a workable be secured the Government to the method of overcoming They under- by means of nomi- that of an Ulster to to Ulster of certain measures either of legislation or admini- to can interests might be secured by the provision and with power are not consonant expedient, whereby the objections it has also been suggested This appears conditions interests consideration to a single Legislature the Irish Parliament, to this proposal.
They understand the application for additional representation if necessary for Ireland to modify, of Lister.

of Ulster overcome.
of Ulster overcome.

further special with that and the nieel should in alternate offices of an Irish Department The Government would also point to the fact that it has been proposed that the and Belfast, and thai industry and com- to discuss the willingness to consider any expedient which may The fact the the South African Convention decided in Cape Town, the Administrative Irish Parliament the principal merce should be located these suggestions help to remove the causes of Irish disunion.
claims of different parts of the community, that the Legislature was to be established of manufacturing that is clear evidente of the desire They believe in Belfast.

in order in Dublin to meet sessions that, time.
They during of Customs that, the present that, control ment ; Joint Exchequer revenue of Ireland—a Government and the war, a Royal Commission thoroughly the contribution of Ireland best means of adjusting financial The Government other : that, taxation ment of the annual that all Irish chequer Board, diture, during Imperial period should be paid the period after deduction into of the war control and it seems Departments to be situated in Pretoria, and the Supreme Court was to sit in Bloemfontein.
to eventual is a proof that proposals such as these may markedly contribute agreement.

22 itself introduce commends to the Convention, Finally, the Government have noted the very important Bseport which has been prepared on the subject of Land Purchase and on which an unanimous conclusion set up to consider this subject.
has been reached by the Committee of the Convention the Government would be pre- If this Report as part of the plan of settlement in Parliament to (and simul- pared the Government of Ireland Act.

1914) a measure taneously with the Bill amending for the purpose of enabling Parliament of have also had the Convention the need ot submitted and on provision receiving be prepared provision the urgent question of housing from inclusion dealing with this vital problem.
to them by the Labour for dealing with recommendations to consider the for immediately to give effect to the recommendations The Government in the Convention on the subject of Land Purchase.

they would of a substantial in the scheme of settlement representatives the Convention in Ireland, subject the on There thus seems to be within the reach of the Convention the possibility ot Ireland.
and enabling Irishmen With the good of appeal the control of their own affairs, while preserving obtaining a settlement which will lay the foundation of a new era in the government both of Ireland and of Great Britain.

men Lbiited Kingdom, well as for Government can be carried out at once and which will go a long way towards the world, without of Irishmen questions agreement are also the.

United Kingdom, the present war.
recur, which no man can wish to make himself It is a settlement which will give to Irish- unity of the the fundamental to work for the good of this Empire as the all to agree upon a scheme which the hopes realising of and which every part of till the end of that may never fur affecting problems of which must be postponed by consent for a settlement entail the consideration This is an opportunity if it is allowed prejudice cannot be attained to the members of the Convention connected with constitutional on which at present in their power the earnestness to pass, must consequences consideration and which, responsible.
in Ireland intimately inevitably all over future, the to Yours sincerely, D. LLOYD GEORGE.

onventiox.

iíís-28/íi February and 33.

The consideration by the of the views expressed by the Cabinet to the Delegation of February in his Prime Minister letter 26th, 27th and 28th.
It was felt that a new situation had been created, and the discussion was directed letter could be made was at once conditions in the Prime Minister's One suggestion under what the basis of an agreement being a Committee could best be given to consider in Urban Areas the suggestions made in the Convention.

to seeing whether to Housing in Ireland.

appointed assistance adopted, occupied sessions the larch sill-Gil,.

34.
34.

On March 5th the Convention decided not to resume the consideration of the that namely, be postponed :- -The matters into effect automatically for further considération by Lord Midleton on January 2nd, but to take up a resolution such control of Customs and Excise by the Irish Parliament in detail, some of the suggestions contained in the following in the Prime Minister's terms control of Customs motion introduced Lord MacDonnell and which, in effect, embodied, with which had been submittedbj letter.
variation specified The first part of this resolution was and Excise by an legislation, as unfitted for immediate until after the war, on the Irish Parliament, shall condition unless come of the United Kingdom shall otherwise decide.

Another par!

of the Parliament and the resolution and .Excise should .secure also provided the deter- mination of the true revenue of Ireland.
raised in a definite issue which form first during the Presentation Stage, then on Lord Midleton's motion of the 2nd January ¡•¡ni the amendments proposed that during include a. person, or persons, for thereto, and finally on the Prime.

Minister's letter.

the Board of Customs by the [rish Treasury, These propositions length of a Joint Exchequer period nominated had been debated three years after the Convention, the cessation of hostilities the creation the fiscal interim Board this in to at 2:; 35.
The consideration of Lord MacDonnell's motion was postponed owing I2nd-49th until after the funeral.

When ><-";'-.

(see Appendix X.)

appeared of Customs during to Mr. Redmond's death and the adjournment _ (he Convention re-assembled on March 12th the first part of Lord MacDonnell's "" ''' '-"' i-" resolution imposition Parliament had been considered decision first part of Lord MacDonnell's votes to 34.
The text of the proposed and divisions taken will be found in Appendix X. the Imperial control the The the conclusion of peace.

to the vote and carried by 38 seven years after resolution was put resolution of Imperial Parliament, and a decision arrived the at by the to be taken not later the control of the in another form.

of the amendments It proposed that and full particulars should be under the war and and Excise thereafter question such until than 36.
The opinion of the majority upon the main financial question having now of the the consideration to resume of provisional formally expressed, the Convention decided conclusions been statement V.).

These were considered on the 14th, 15th, 19th, 20th.

21st, and 22nd March.


The Heads provisional on which were adopted with but reserved Heads The divisions agreement and discussion mainly for consideration there was little alteration, the Grand Committee text of the Heads and of the taken will be found Committee on those the Convention.

in the Grand Committee in Appendix XI.

and particulars (see Appendix amendments in Grand proposed reached centred the by by of 37.
One amendment calls for particular On Head 2, Mr. Barrie pro- the province from the power and authority ¡o as " The Excluded Area."

Mr. Barrie had on the 12th March based on the Amending Bill a motion in view of his amendment had placed however, was not pressed an outline of a scheme of Irish Government (see Appendix XIV.).

and on of the Irish Parliament the Agenda Paper notice.

posed to exclude of Ulster, referred circulated of 1911. to consider which raised 15th and rejected it.

The motion, iss^ne.
The motion, iss^ne.

i lie same by o2 votes This amendment was discussed on .March 14th and to 19.

(See Appendix XI).

.

'ÎS.

It «ill be remembered that the Grand Committee had appointed Committees Electoral Convention, stitution in the proposals tu deal with specific questions.

The Report of the Sub-Committee Systems and Areas but its recommendations (sec Appendix V.) was not formally were discussed in connection with considered by the Areas.
the con- of the Senate and adopted the House of Commons and were largely incorporated these Heads.

by the Convention under three Sub- K| ,,,.,,,„ on systems ind 39.

The Report of the Sub-Committee XV.)

was considered to 17.

Appendix XI1.

The by the Convention amendments proposed and and adopted on Defence and Police (see Appendix on 14th March by 54 votes in are the divisions recorded thereon 40.
The Report of the .Sub-Committee on Land Purchase, which was accepted on the referred The final Report of the Sub-Com- the 22nd March on the Report that It should be noted and for their consideration.

IX.)

was considered by the Convention unanimously on Land Purchase, which contains detailed in the Convention were had been discussed amendments suggested adopted.
January, certain after of the agrarian question, was based on inquire was into to the Sub-Committee not under pre- as in Ireland, and to on any The amendments proposed to the Report on 22nd March and form of government, of government taken as agreed the framework recommendations could not be the existing the problems but recommendations the assumption in principle by the Grand Committee, 9th and 10th 8th, to the Sub-Committee (see Appendix mittee and discussion of the Sub-Committee fora complete of the duty that by Land Purchase, sented part of a large scheme for recasting they stated that other hypothesis.
the divisions thereon are recorded settlement their in Appendix XIII.

4L The Report of the Committee in the Prime Minister's appointed, letter of the 25th February.

1918. to consider in accordance with the suggestion tl (see Appendix XV!.).

was considered in Urban Areas in Ireland contained qui stion of Housing by the Convention on the 5th April, and unanimously adopted.

Defence and Police.

Land Purchase 51st Session.

Hodsino 24 42.


We have now set out in order the eight months of through- to our Reference, out is to be found in the following statement.

the conclusions arrived at by majorities, full particulars of which will be found in Appendices X. to XIII.

the proceedings of the Convention The answer its deliberations.

This statement embodies Statement op Conclusions.

* 1.

The Irish Parliament.


(1) The Irish Parliament to consist of the King, an Irish Senate, and an Irish House of Commons.

(2) Notwithstanding the establishment of the Irish Parliament or anything contained in the Government of Ireland Act.the supreme power and authority of the Parliament of the United Kingdom shall remain unaffected and undiminished things in Ireland and every part over all persons, matters, and thereof.

Section carried by 51 votes to 18.

(See Division List No.

6).

2.


Powers of the general power of Ireland, Irish to make Parliament.

The Irish Parliament laws for the peace, order, and good government restrictions specified the exclusions to have in 3 and 4 and the subject to ' belowr.

Section carried by 51 votes to 19.

(See Division List Xo.

8).

3.

Exclusions from Power of Irish Parliament.

The Irish Parliament to have no power to make laws on the following matters :— (1) Crown and succession (See 1914 Act sect.

2 (1) ).
2 (1) ).

(2) Making of peace and war (including sect.

2 (2) ).

conduct as neutrals).

(Act, (3) The Army .and Navy.

„.*.,.

In this connection reference should be made to the Report of the.

Sub-Committee on Defence and Police (Appendix XV.)

which was adopted by the Convention by 54 votes to 17.

(For Divisions see Appendix XII.

and Division Lists Xns.

14-20).

(4) Treaties 2 (4)).

and foreign relations (including extradition).

(Act, sect.

(5) Dignities and titles of honour.

(Act, sect.

2 (5) ).


(6) Any necessary control of harbours certain powers as regards terminals, Military and Naval forces of His Majesty (Act, sect.

2 (9) ).

to be settled with for naval and military purposes, .and lighthouses, buoys, beacons, cables, wireless of the in various contingencies requirements reference to the Sub-section carried by 41 votes to 13.

(See Division List No.

9).

(7) Coinage ; legal tender ; or any change in the standard of weights and measures.

(Act, sect.

2 (10) ).


(8) Copyright or patent rights.

Section earned by 49 votes to 16.

(See Division List Xo.

21).

»The Statement shows the vote» for and against each section and suis.section (where a division was taken).

Particulars of all amendments and the voting llicivon will lie fsumsl ¡n isniendiccs X.-XIII.

The division lifts will be found in Appendix XVII.

TEsMPORaky and Partial Reservation.


subject shall jointly arrange, ments control of the Irish Police and Postal services during as soon as possible after of hostilities two services these ment.

the cessation shall become automatically to Imperial The Imperial and exigencies, Irish Govern- for the unified that the war, provided the administration of subject to the Irish Parlia- Carried by 37 votes to 21.

(See Division List No.

5).


*** In this connection reference should be made committee on Defence and Police, and also Report, which were adopted by the t 'on cent ion (Appendix XV.).

to to the Report of the Sub- their Supplementary (For Divisions see Appendix XII.

and Division Lists .Vos.

14-20).

4.

Restriction on Power of Irish Parliament on Matters within its competence.

(1) Prohibition of laws interfering with religious equality.

(Act, sect.

3).

N.B.


A sub-section should be framed penalty, Certain restrictions still remain under the Act of 1829. or disability disadvantage to annul on account legal existing any of religious belief.

(2) Special provision protecting 43 (1) and (2) ).

the position of Freemasons.

(Act, sect.

(3) Safeguard for Trinity College, and Queen's University similar to sect.

42 of Act.

(4) Money bills to be founded only on Viceregal message.

(Act, sect.

10 (2)).


(5) Privileges, qualifications, limited as in Act.

(Act, sect.

12).

etc., of members of Irish Parliament to be (6) Rights of existing Irish Officers to be safeguarded.

(Act, sects.

32-7).

Section carried by 46 votes to 15.

(.See Division List No.

11).

5.

Constitutional Amendments.

to the House of Commons with the substitution years."
ten years, provided is agreed number of members of both Houses sitting Section 9 (4) of the Act of 1914 to apply of " ten years " for "three after total to alteration to by two-thirds of the together.

.Senate to be subject The constitution the Bill of the Section carried by 46 votes to 15.

(See Division List No.

12).

6.

Executive Authority.

to continue vested in the King, but exercisable through the Lord Lieutenant on the advice of an Irish Executive Committee in the manner set out in Act.

(sect.
(sect.

4).

The executive power in Ireland Section carried by 45 votes to 15.

(See Division List No.

13).

7.

Dissolution prorogued, The Irish Parliament of Irish Parliament.

and dissolved as set out in Act.

(sect.

6).

to be summoned, Section carried by 45 roíes* to 15.

(See Division List No.

13).

8 Assent to Bills.

Royal Assent to be given or withheld as set out in Act (sect.

7) with the substitution of " reservation " for " postponement."

Section carried by 45 votes to 15.


(See Division List No.

13).

D 9.

Constitution of the Senate.
26 (1) Lord Chancellor (2) Four Archbishops or Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church (3) Two Archbishops ... ... ... ... ... of the Church or Bishops of Ireland ... (4) A Representative (5) The Lord Mayors (6) Peers resident (7) Nominated of the General Assembly of Dublin, Belfast, and Cork ... ... ... ... in Ireland, elected by Peers resident in Ireland by Lord Lieutenant :— Irish Privy Councillors of at least Representatives of learned institutions two years' standing ... ... ... Other persons ... ... ... ... ••■ (8) Representatives (9) Representatives (10) Representatives and of Commerce of Labour, one for each Province of County Councils, ... ... ... two for each Province Industry 1 4 2 1 3 15 4 3 4 15 4 8 64 On the disappearance of any nominated element in the House of Commons an addition shall be made to the numbers of the Senate.
Section carried by 48 votes to 19.

(See Division List Xo.

24).

10.

Constitution of the House of Commons.

(1) The ordinary 160. number elected members of the House of Commons shall (2) The University of Dublin, the University of Belfast, and the National of each two members.

The graduates University University shall each form shall return the constituency.

(3) Special representation to urban and industrial areas by grouping quota than the smaller that applicable to the to rest of the country.
them a lower electoral shall be given towns and applying (4) The principle of Proportional Representation, ferable vote, shall be observed wherever or more members.

(Act, sect.

9 (2) ).

with the single returns a constituency trans- three Sub-section carried by 47 votes to 22.

(See Division List No.

25).

(5) The Convention accept the principle suggest that forty per cent, of the member- In shall be to Unionists.
there for a period, they Irish House of Commons 20 members of this, the to the Lord Lieutenant, with a view ship of the House of Commons shall be guaranteed pursuance summoned by adequately not otherwise interests Leinster.

Munster, and Connaught, shall be elected industrial represented and constituencies, and agricultural to the due representation of of that 20 additional members commercial, the provinces by Ulster nominated represent interests.
that, to in (6) The Lord Lieutenant's to any instructions power of nomination shall be exercised subject that may be given by His Majesty the King.

(7) The nominated members shall disappear in whole or in part after 15 years, and not earlier, notwithstanding anything contained in Clause 5.

(8) The extra representation in Ulster not to cease except on an adverse decision by a three-fourths majority of both Houses sitting Sub-section carried by 27 votes to 20.

(See Division List No.

26).

together.


27 (9) The House of Commons shall continue for 5 years unless previously dissolved.

(10) Nominated members shall vacate shall be eligible for renomination.

members shall be filled by nomination.

their but Any vacancy a.mong the nominated seats on a dissolution Section carried by 45 votes to 20.

(See Division List No.

27).

11.

Money Bills.

(1) Money bills to be amended to originate only in the House of Commons, and not by the Senate (Act, sect.

10).
10).

(2) The Senate is, however, to have power to bring about a joint sitting over money bills in the same session of Parliament.

(3) The Senate to have power to suggest amendments, which the House of Commons may accept or reject as it pleases.

Section carried by 45 votes to 22.

(»See Division List No.

28).

between Houses.

12.

Disagreement to be proviso that shall be held solved by joint if in the same session of Parliament.
fail to pass as set out the Senate sittings Disagreements between in Act (sect.

bill such a money the two Houses the 11), with sitting joint Section carried by 45 votes to 22.

(See Division List No.

28).

13.

Representation at (1) Representation representatives Irish all matters.

Westminster.

in Parliament to have (2) Forty-two Irish representatives of House of the Parliament manner:— of the United Kingdom the right of deliberating to continue.
and voting on shall be elected the United Kingdom to the Commons in the following A Panel of and one other Panel shall be formed consisting shall be formed the members for that Province in each of the four Provinces of Ireland, in the Irish House of of mem- of The number Irish House of Commons.

to the to be elected shall be proportionate shall be on the principle of Proportional to the Commons House of the Imperial of each Panel and Representation.
the numbers to consisting Commons, bers nominated representatives Parliament the Election Sub-section carried by 42 votes to 24.

(See Division List No.

29).

(3) The Irish present matter representation unless and until shall be reconsidered be remodelled, when and Irish Parliaments.

Section carried by 44 votes to 22.

(See Division List No.

31).

in the House of Lords Chamber by the Imperial shall continue that as at the 14.

Finance.
Finance.

(1) An Irish Exchequer and Consolidated Irish Controller and Auditor-General (sect.

14 (1) and sect.

21).

Fund to be appointed as set out to be established and an in Act (2) If necessary, it should be declared in Ireland should continue to be levied and collected until the Irish Parlia- ment otherwise decides.

that all taxes at present leviable (3) The necessary adjustments of revenue as between Great.

Britain and Ireland during the transition period should be made.
Section carried by 51 votes to 18.

(See Division List No.

32).

D 2 15.

Financial Powers of the Irish Parliament.

28 (1) The control of Customs and Excise by an Irish Parliament is to be postponed for further consideration until after the war, provided that the question of such control shall be considered and decided by the Parliament of the L'nited Kingdom within seven years after the conclusion of peace.
of the United Kingdom the question of the future control of Irish Customs and Excise, a number of Irish representatives to the population of Ireland shall be called to the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

Sub-section carried by 38 votes to 34.

(See Division List No.

1).


For the purpose of deciding in the Parliament proportioned (2) On the creation of an Irish Parliament, and until the question of the ultimate control of the Irish Customs and Excise services shall have been decided, the Board of Customs and Excise of the United by the Irish Kingdom shall Treasury.

Sub-section carried by 39 votes to 33.

(See Division List No.

2).


include a person or persons nominated (3) A Joint Exchequer Board, consisting of two members nominated by the Imperial Treasury, Irish two members Treasury, with a Chairman appointed by the King, shall be set up of the true to secure income of Ireland.

the determination nominated by the and Subsection carried, by 39 votes to 33.

(See Division List No.

2).


(4) Until the question of the ultimate Excise services from Customs Board, and Excise, shall have been decided, as determined the Irish Exchequer.

into shall be paid control of the Irish Customs and the revenue due to Ireland Exchequer Joint the by Sub-section carried by 38 votes to 30.

(.See Division List No.

34).

(5) All branches of taxation, the control of the other than Customs and Excise, shall be Irish Parliament.

under Subsection carried by 38 votes to 30.


(See Division List No.

34).

16.

Imperial Contribution.

The principle of such a contribution is approved.

Section carried unanimously.

17.

Land Purchase.

Sub-Committee The Convention on Land Purchase.

Section ranted unanimously.

accept (See Appendix the recommendations IX.).

of the Power.

to be adopted 18.


Judicial Act (a) Safeguarding (b) Leaving appointment The following provisions :— of the Government of Ireland position of existing Irish Judges of future Judges (sect.

32).

to the Irish Government and to the Crown on address from both Houses of Parliament their removal (sect.

27).

(c) Transferring mittee, (d) Extending 30 (1-2) ).

appeals strengthened from by Irish right of appeal the House of Lords to the Judicial Com- Judges (sect.

28).

to this Court.

(Sect.


28 (4) and sect.

of questions of validity to Judicial (e) Provision Committee as to reference (see sect.

29).

The Lord Chancellor is not to be a political officer.

Section carried by 43 votes to 17.

(See Division List No.

36).

29 19.

Lord Lieutenant.

is not to be a political officer.

He shall hold office for 6 years, and neither he nor the Lords Justices shall be subject His salary shall be sufficient the post open to men of moderate means.
to any religious disqualification (see Act of 1914, sect.

31).

The Lord Lieutenant to throw Section carried by 43 votes to 17.

(See Division List No.

37).

20.

Civil Service.

(1) There shall be a Civil of Irish Universities examinations administrative unless he holds .Service Commission shall which to for admission and no person bodies, the certificate formulate the public service, shall be admitted of the Civil Service Commission.
consisting of representatives a scheme of competitive statutory including to such service (2) A scheme of appointments salary for of an independent of consisting the to scales as mission in Irish public Unionist interests.

life, and two colleagues, one of whom same, shall be prepared Chairman of outstanding by a ( lorn- position shall represent in the public service, with recommendations (3) No appointments Commission has been approved.
to positions shall be made before the scheme of this Section carried by 42 votes to 18.

(See Division List No.

38).

Deferring made over Exchanges, taking over certain Irish Services.

to permit the services the Irish Government, relating Post Office Trustee to Old Age Pensions, National ¡Savings Banks, if they so desire, and Friendly Arrangements to defer Insurance, to be taking Labour Societies.

Section carried by 43 votes to 18.

(See Division List No.

39).

43.


In conclusion, we have pleasure in recording our high appreciation rendered to us by our Secretary, Lord Southborough, He has placed at our disposal labours.

experience of our efficient Secretariat we tender our cordial of a distinguished servant, public thanks.

and to him and all service unremitting stage of our protracted ripe and members of the at every the wise counsel the 44.

The Chairman to submit Convention, Government.


and Secretary have the foregoing Report the honour, of its Proceedings by direction of the to His Majesty's Paragraph 44 carried by 42 votes to 35.

(See Division List No.

51).

The whole Report carried by 44 votes to 29.

(See Division List No.

52).

SOUTHBOROUGH, Secretary.

Chairman.

HORACE PLUNKETT, 5th April, 1918.

30 REPORT ULSTER UNIONIST DELEGATES TO IRISH CONVENTION.

regarding of agreement Irish Self-Government 1.


We, the Ulster Unionist Members of the Convention, concur in the Chairman's Draft Report.

We protest against a measure fact was not the case as is evidenced by the record of the Divisions.

conclusions on minor matters which were arrived on agreement contingent on the vital them no agreement was at any the Nationalists were sharply divided.
and subject to complete freedom of action as regards decision this was clearly throughout important All discussions were " without being reached on the whole Scheme.

These were fundamental—and On many of the the proceedings.

in Convention time visible.

agreement indicated issues.

at The provisional in Committee were strictly upon find ourselves unable its implication was attained, which to that in questions prejudice " Absolute and on all points was reserved 2.
In confirmation of MacBonnoirs 8th March, Memorandum 1918, may be quoted :— statement this (see Appendix the XIX.)

following issued extract from to the Convention Lord on " It is true that this report does not bind the Grand Committee, still less the Convention, is recorded, because at were, contingent reached ; and even on the points on which no difference of opinion which were arrived all the provisional being scheme on a full agreement has been reached."
understandings this agreement general the on it cannot be said 3.

In order that an accurate of the Irish Convention, in summer early the of 1917. it is necessary estimate maybe to recall formed the political of the origin and purpose as it existed situation 4.

The Home Ride Act of 1914, to which Ulster was been placed on the ¡Statute Book, ginning of the w-ar, at which had passed postponed through in consequence of the European situation.
initial Parliamentary its in disregard of the truce time an Amending Bill excluding Ulster stages with general consent into at from inexorably entered opposed, had the be- the Act and was 5.

Yielding to the demands of the Nationalists, the Prime Minister, in a letter addressed to Mr. John Redmond, on 16th May, 1917, offered :— (a) A " bill for the but excluding alternatively, immediate therefrom (b) A Convention of Irishmen for their country opposing interests.
.... " application the six Counties of North-East of the Honre Rule Act to Ireland, Ulster" ; or. "

for the purpose of drafting which should secure a just balance of all the a Constitution 6.
Mr. Redmond refused the first proposal, but acquiesced in which Ulster Unionists were invited Convention, the Government's announcing said : " No one—I want Minister going to the Convention can be assumed rejection of any particular proposal or method to make intention to summon to be pledged this quite clear—by in the suggestion of a to join.

On 21st May, 1917, in the Prime the mere fact of to the acceptance or the the Convention, for the Government of Ireland."

31 they ultimately 7.
Ulster Unionists in sending delegates felt some natural hesitancy to the Con- vention, but relying absolutely on this pledge, and on further pledges given by the Prime Minister and Mr. Asquith, that Ulster would not be forced to come under a Dublin Parliament, the Ulster for Great Unionists were animated Britain, under which they had lived and prospered, the Union which to the needs of Ireland they still believe They were ready, and best calculated increase however, the happiness the supremacy consented.
In taking to do what was best for the Empire, that might be put forward, provided and at and they desired to be the form of Government to continue under bed suited of the Empire.

it would time maintain They were satisfied with and comfort Imperial to consider any plan of Parliament.

and for Ireland.
and for Ireland.

the Constitution by the desire the stability this course to maintain the people the same of the the fact S. Ulster Unionists, who have that, to providing thrown in this great world crisis, when they the very and munitions, issues on which men from in order postponed vital national to again on the outbreak take up a subject the consideration of hostilities.
deplore be devoted diverted depends rightly the war, to their entire energies ought should temporarily be even existence of the Empire of which had been themselves whole-heartedly into 9.
In view of Ulster's well-known the declared interests to offer a modus vivendi, and for Ireland which would that opposing prepared government fact object of the Convention was to " secure a just balance of all were " fears and of the undeniable it was not unnatural to assume doubts and that proposals the Nationalists of local Parliamentary formulate least :— at (1) Provide for the absolute supremacy of the Imperial Parliament; (2) Maintain the existing fiscal unity : (3) Guarantee protection for the undoubted rights of the Unionist minority ; (4) Ensure the safety of Irish enterprises, the vast proportion which are situated which the bulk of the Irish Revenue Counties of Ulster, is derived.
industrial in the North-Easteru of and from the real work of the Convention would have been directed that 10.

We expected between to a sincere and patriotic endeavour the 1914 Act on the one hand, and the first week in which our disappointment Rubs far the Convention that almost of any previous From expressed a form of Home sat we urged every Nationalist claim.

this course, and repeatedly to find common ground the views of Ulster speech outlined on the other.

in advance somewhere 11.


The Scheme which was finally brought forward by the Bishop of Raphoe on behalf of the Nationalists included the following demands: — First -A Sovereign and authority with Independent the Parliament for Imperial Parliament.
Ireland co-equal in power Second—Complete Fiscal Autonomy for Ireland, including : — (a) Power of imposing as it would, the risk of hostile tariffs against Great Britain and the disturbance of free intercourse between the two countries tariffs and.control of Excise, involving, ; (b) Right of making Commercial Treaties with foreign countries ; (c) Full powers of direct taxation.

Third—Right to raise and maintain a Military (territorial) Force in Ireland.
Fourth—Repudiation of any liability for the National Debt on the plea of over-taxation of Ireland in the past.

Subject to the consent of the Irish Parliament, towards Imperial the principle of a small annual contribution expenditure was admitted.

32 Fifth—Denial of the right of the Imperial Parliament to impose Military in Ireland unless with the consent of the proposed Irish Service Parliament.

12.

Wien came evident the Chairman to the Nationalists themselves.

reply to the Chairman's Leaders Russell.


the Clause claiming Fiscal Autonomy that no real approach endeavoured towards to get over the deadlock for Ireland was reached, agreement was possible.
it soon be- At that stage a series of questions by putting and to the Ulster Unionists, and the replies sent in speak for in the official The real object of these proposals was clearly apparent queries of 6th November, signed by the following Nationalist :—John Redmond, the Lord Bishop of Raphoe, Joseph Devlin, George 13.
In this document the Nationalists again emphatically for demand the following government Government fiscal independence, Ireland's :—" We regard terms does not exist where have not control of fiscal and economic policy."

and orystalised nominally those insisted upon their argument their in Self- affairs of entrusted with Ireland as a Nation, an economic entity.

14.

It is, therefore, of supposed and Excise and National economic ground In opposition independence.
common prosperity, people's Kingdom must be preserved the Parliament Imperial clear that Fiscal Autonomy is valued by taxation including the Nationalists the control of Customs not only on the advantage to this Ulster and maintains but as an essential symbol of National takes a firm stand on the basis of the the Fiscal unity of the United intact, that carrying with and due representation it as therein.

it does the sovereignty of 15.

The important raised much Nationalists question controversy.
of how far Ireland the earlier that In taxation prominent no responsibility frankly for any portion of the pre-war National Debt, nor for the present war expenditure, whilst we claimed full share of both.

liability, Ireland must continue to in justice The majority the Nationalists recognised in honour declined to pay her such admit stated quite they that and of some should contribute stages of the discussions to Imperial 16.
During the financial year just ended Ireland's Imperial contribution amount next year.

contribution estimated, millions Imperial from ranging invariably was at the pleasure keen disappointment, prosperous, of men and money.

sacrifice should not two and a half a condition of the thirteen millions sterling, and possibly to about An important being paid, but section the to four and a half millions that the contribution We Irish Parliament.
knowing of no reason why in the hour of the Empire's of the Nationalists larger number favoured a contribution annum.

should be purely voluntary suggestions sterling these per It and with to listened Ireland, which need contribute is abundantly her full share of We have always contended that there should be equality in every part of the United Kingdom.

to objected will, it is twenty to any 17.


As already pointed out, a further Clause in the Bishop of Raphoe's Scheme with which we found could not be imposed upon Ireland'by Great Britain unless with Irish Parliament, Convention.

this demand was supported that compulsory Military Services the consent of the the to agree claimed by a majority it impossible vote and of in contradistinction 18.
Again, if was claimed that, vious Home Rule Bills, the Royal Irish Constabulary, at the conclusion of the war come under immediately ment.

for a period of six years.

regarded as " excessively dangerous."


tor-General of the Force, whose statement appears to the provisions of all pre- Force, should the control of the Irish Parlia- control Imperial such a proposal must be This is the opinion expressed by the Inspec- in the Appendices that this Force should remain under In the present state of Ireland The 1914 Act provided a semi-Military I.C.

27.

33 19.
27.

33 19.

Failing any evidence of an approach to a narrowing of our differences, and in view of the new demands made and adhered to by the Nationalists, we were finally forced to declare that in any such scheme of Self-Government for Ireland Ulster could not participate.

We cannot overlook the strong probability that the eon- trolling force in such a Parliament would to-day be the Republican or Sinn Fein Party, which is openly and aggressively hostile to Great Britain and to the Empire.
During recent months in many parts of Ireland, outside of Ulster, there has been a great renewal of lawlessness, and crime bordering on anarch)', which unfortunately has not been adequately dealt with by the Irish Executive.

20.
20.

A most remarkable to adjourn on the proposal Government and repress outrage that proposal, and 33 Members, including situation arose in the Convention when a vote was taken the proceedings until an assurance was received from the law and order Fifty Nationalist Members voted against the Ulster Unionists, voted for it.

take effective steps to restore they would promptly throughout Ireland.

that 21.
that 21.

A proposal was brought should have a temporary forward, representation largely to on the basis of population.

While appreciating full consideration, it wholly unacceptable.

that the undemocratic Unionists entitled was felt, after rendered under which, in an Irish Parliament in excess of what they are the spirit of this offer it character of this proposal 22.

On the Land Question a Report containing valuable mitted by the Committee to which the subject had been referred.
all sections unanimously regenerative adopted scheme of Land Purchase as there was a desire amongst completed without further suggestions was sub- This Report was to have the great delay.

23.

The Committee to consider additional Workmen's houses in Urban Districts schemes being at once undertaken by the Local Authorities, aid to be provided by the Treasury.

appointed This Report was also unanimously the urgent necessity reported for.

providing in favour of comprehensive an Imperial grant adopted.
in 24.

We regret that instead of proposals the policy pursued by the Nationalists that Home Rule would menace to the Empire.

intended Bills, but what is tantamount agreed to enter the Convention.
to demand, not, the subordinate intensify being made in the Convention to remove our objections, our opinion strengthened and prove a constant of the Convention in Ireland the majority existing divisions Had we thought that to full national powers contained in previous Home Rule independence, we could not have 25.
While firmly believing that Home Rule would be inimical to the highest the scheme for the exclusion of Ulster based on interests of Ireland and the Empire, Ulster Unionists, with the object of meeting Nationalists, lines agreed to by the Official Nationalist Party an alternative in 1916. presented 26.

The discussions have proved beyond doubt that the aim of the Nationalists is to establish a Parliament control by the Imperial modern political movements United Kingdom have fought against Parliament.
to realise in Ireland which would be practically Tt is only necessary the unwisdom free from effective to the co-equal powers.

All other countries to draw attention of establishing within two Parliaments having this disintegrating policy.

27.

The Australian States, weary of local commercial disputes, combined in one Island much akin to Ireland fiscal unit in which they were joined by Tasmania—an in the matter of area.

28.
28.

The United States of America established, at the cost of much blood and treasure, National unity when the Confederacy claimed, like the Irish Nationalists, the right to set up an Independent Government.

29.

With these and other examples before us we cannot help feeling that the turmoil at home and weakness if conceded, would create demands put forward, abroad.

31 30.
31 30.

One of the many objection to the Scheme presented in the Report is that it would make the future application of Federalism to the United Kingdom impossible.

31.

For the reasons stated we could not accept the proposals put forward by the Nationalists.

32.

We desire feeling which characterised to record our appreciation of the uniform the proceedings of the Convention courtesy throughout.

and good HUGH T. BARRIE.

LONDONDERRY.

ABERCORN.

CRAWFORD McCULLAGH.


R. G. SHARMAN-CRAWFORD, COL. R. N. ANDERSON.

M. E. KNIGHT.

JOHN IRWIN.

JOHN HANNA.

H. B. ARMSTRONG.

J. JACKSON CLARK.

G. S. CLARK.

ROBERT H. WALLACE, COL. J. STOUPPE F. McCANCE.

H. GRATTAN MacGEAGH.

W. WHITLA.

JAMES JOHNSTON, Lord Mayor of Belfast.

H. M. POLLOCK.

JOHsN McMEEKAN.

5th April, 1918.

35 NOTE PROVOST OF TRINITY COLLEGE and the ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH.
We have not found it possible to vote for the conclusion reached by the majority of the members of this Convention.

It.

involves, in our opinion, either of two alternatives :— (1).

The coercion of Ulster, which is unthinkable.

(2).

The partition of Ireland, which would be disastrous.

We have more than once put forward a Federal .Scheme based on the Swiss or Canadian precedent, which might ensure a united Ireland with provincial autonomy for Ulster, or any other Province that desired it.
This scheme would also be capable of being adapted to some larger scheme of Imperial Federation for the whole British Empire.

J. P. MAHAFFY, Provost of Trinity College.

JOHN B. ARMAGH, Primate.

36 REPORT BY THE UNDERSIGNED NATIONALISTS.

1.

The object set before the Convention was to frame a Constitution for Ireland This was the first time the Government had assigned such a within the Empire.
the task with a deep sense commission of the gravity of the circumstances in which the idea of the Convention originated as well as of the responsibility which rested upon us of giving the best answer in our power to a reference of such supreme to a body of Irishmen, and we approached importance.

2.

Though its function was to draft a Constitution, the Convention was not a from the people to plan the form of Constituent Assembly with a direct mandate Government under which they desired to live.
Still it might well claim a considerable and measure of authority reflected almost every phase and interest and class labour abstentions there has been no sure means of knowing how in the varied time, even as regards far in it, nor any guarantee inde- the parties pendently of suggestions made by the Government, would The Sinn Fein organisation its decisions, that take effect in law.

the mind and will of Ireland for some important for its proceedings.

stood altogether life of Ireland.


it has worthily at the present rep resented it exhibited officially political Except aloof.

But the first time itself when 3.

Nevertheless, whatever that presented to come together the difficulties might be, we determined Irishmen in a large body the future government of their country at a great crisis To co-operate most of the unique opportunity for parties were friendship history.
which would satisfy provide adequate safeguards We believed to, and given effect to by the Government, agreed .Nationalists would accept it and bend their minds that the good will to the Constitution which had followed self-government Dominions would speedily spring up here.

and to our desires.
and to our desires.

if a measure giving us full control over our own affairs was of Irish it a success, and in the to make the of opposing to discuss in in the world's self-government for minorities, was altogether according the vast majority to making of our, fellow-countrymen, the reasonable aspirations a scheme of National in devising that by the preliminary 4.
Such hopes as were entertained of success in building a worthy edifice from these foundations were strengthened debates of the Convention, which were upon a high level, and showed a real desire for mutual enlightenment It looked as if the gravity of the and understanding.
freedom for which the Allied Nations claimed a settlement the disastrous spontaneous a free and contented nation within of desire for and conflict and disunion, might bring about a to establish our country as to stand, the Dominions and among our American kindred, resolve among all the assembled delegates consequences of further the widespread the principles the Empire.

throughout times, * delegates, abandoning a long tradition of opposition 5.

These expectations have been only in part realised.
The Southern Unionist to Home Rule, came forward frankly and fairly to assist in planning a scheme of self-government.

We readily 37 acknowledge the patriotism of their action, and we can only regret deeply that on one point, the control of Customs, which we regarded as vital, they could not see eye to eye with us, and thus effect a complete mutual agreement on a Constitution.

6.

The Labour delegates also took a very useful part in the deliberations.
As a body they were strongly in favour of a measure of self-government for Ireland.

7.

On the other hand, the Ulster Unionists, who were in close touch with their in the North, to our great regret did not see their way to give much supporters co-operation in constructive work along the lines which the Convention was following.

The objections which they formulated to our proposals would, if given effect to, reduce the Irish Parliament to a low level at the outset.
What their view might be in an Irish Parliament is a different matter.
Every one of the Dominions contained a minority of citizens accustomed to identify themselves interests who predicted a calamity for their country and the whole with Imperial Empire the experi- ence of the Convention will tend to remove any such feeling in Ulster; and, in order to make it easy for our esteemed fellow-countrymen terms in one for the whole country, we went so far as to concede them a large Parliament measure of additional elected representation in the Irish House of Commons.
They would be a powerful and effective element in an Irish Parliament.

if self-government were fully conceded.

We are confident to join on fair that to a scheme which, But we also realised 8.

We realised clearly fr.om the outset that to obtain an agreement upon Home Rule for a United Ireland, and thus fulfil the purpose of the Convention, compromise to the point of was necessary.
that agreeing from us would be very unwise, opinions right is, that it is in the control by Irishmen solution of the Irish problem.

The truth in a reduction of the powers of of the machinery of Irish Government the Irish Parliament for a reasonable compromise.

This brings us to the recommendations the best field is to be found of our Report.

Ireland would not accept from our own decided to carry compromise in our judgment, rather apart than that the on 9.
The terms of reference given to the Convention contained that the Constitution must be within the Empire.

the single limitation steadily 10.

Within the Empire to it, there and peculiar to those nations, firmer, even after together with an attachment rests on three main principles is a form of Constitution, enjoyed by all the self-governing Dominions, which has brought peace, contentment and prosperity has grown Constitution full control over all Imperial war, the Army and Navy.
one, whose Bills must receive may limitations, cluding to the Empire which form of retains the making of peace and is technically a subordinate (1) the Imperial relations, (2) The Dominion Parliament, to become valid, and whose Acts to these in- Parliament.

power of national (3) Subject self-government, the Dominion has unfettered full control of all taxation.

legally be over-ridden This Parliament the Royal Assent by the Imperial and open war.

rebellion foreign affairs, 11.


Ireland is a Nation, and it is upon a like foundation that we believe the Irish Constitution should now be built.

There is room for compromise on details, and even on secondary questions of principle, and there is abundant room for compromise of the wisest kind in the form of safeguards for the minorities inside Ireland, without limiting the powers of Ireland as a whole.
But we think it essential to abide by the principle that Irish affairs, including all branches of taxation, should be under the Irish Parliament.

12.

It has often been said in our debates, and outside them, that it would be to permit an island so near her to have political power unsafe for Great Britain in any degree that of the Dominions.

As regards national defence, resembling we have allowed a difference is room for to exist ; and in the matter of trade a special arrangement.
But, as to the rest, we can only reply that reconciliation is made exceedingly difficult unless it can be shown that between the two countries the British people sincerely believe in liberty for its own sake, and are willing, to apply to Ireland the principle that the supposed military interests of great there 38 states shall not over-ride the rights of small nationalities living alongside them.
The noble principle of liberty, which has had such a unifying effect in the Dominions during the war now devastating Europe surely cannot lose its virtue when applied to an island near to Great Britain, where mutual interests and intimate com- to promise an even closer friendship.

mercial relations ought 13.


While we think, therefore, that any settlement founded on distrust of Ireland will fail in its effect, and that the nearer the Irish Constitution approaches to that of the Dominions the better will be its prospects, we have striven with earnest sincerity to meet the opposition of Unionist minorities in Ireland, and allay their fears with safeguards which do not infringe any vital principle.
We take in turn the points where difference has arisen, and the proposals which we make for com- promise.

14.

Customs and Excise.

The principal point of difference arose on finance.

We asked for full powers of taxation.

The Ulster representatives wished to reserve to the Imperial Parliament, and only modified this demand all powers of taxation to the extent of allowing to the Irish Parliament some undefined taxing power of its own.
The Southern Unionists were prepared and the reasonableness of Ireland's claim Excise to the Irish Parliament, in effect, would to separate Customs by proposing imposing place a moral obligation lower the in Great Britain upon articles of general con- Customs duties in Ireland sumption.

from the ment control over Customs.


to the decision of the Government Imperial Parliament In an Irish Parliament we have no doubt that many of them would claim the fiscal autonomy which more than one of them advocated They could not see their way to go further the control of Customs and Excise and allow the Irish Parlia- an arrangement which, stages of the Convention.

Imperial Parliament to concede direct they acquiesced in a proposition and admitted in the earlier upon than Ultimately the war.
treatment taxation leaves after that of 15.
The taxing power so deeply affects the welfare and prosperity the wise'and that no part of it could be placed under external in friction with Great Britain and discontent economical and administration taxation, which determines the course of trade and of Parliament, the dignity Government, perpetuating control of indirect times produced Irish Government revenue, nor can an equitable obtained indirect population, seventy per cent, of Irish tax-revenue, cannot be financed without drawing balance between direct and if two authorities taxes affect articles of general consumption necessaries of life.
instead of one are controlling including is of especial largely on these sources of be the the taxation them.

Moreover, the mass of among indirect of of the people, the control without The Ireland.

in normal importance.

16.

Economically, Ireland It is a much poorer country, and a country with few manufacturing It has suffered severely from over-taxation under fiscal system under a separate world of an island differing so radically being united with it under a common fiscal system.
is, and always has been, different from Great Britain.

industries.

the Union, and urgently needs in the country from a powerful neighbouring Irish control.

is not an instance There system, comprise the duties on such is a likelihood of radical 17.
No exception can be made in the case of Customs, which, under the present tea, trade fiscal systems everywhere are in the melting pot, and in the British No change could in the same way, and we consider it neces- interests her own trade and the power, of that truth to control the whole of its own taxation, and especially free coffee and tobacco.

Moreover there change possibly affect Ireland and Great Britain sary controlling her own trade policy.
each state within its Customs, is the very corner-stone of Imperial unity.

should have the right of guarding It may be said with the Empire as sugar, important system.

articles Ireland that 18.

Federation is not in view.

Even if it were, and Ireland were still intent on and her distinct national retaining character and economic interests would give her a claim in that respect which no member of a federation control of her Customs, her sea boundary anywhere else can advance.

39 19.
39 19.

It has been said that to give the Irish Government the power of negotiating relations commercial arrangements with foreign countries will complicate and place her in an unwarrantably privileged position.
We answer that no such complications arise in the case of the Dominions, and that what we ask for implies, in our own case as in theirs, no diminution Any such trade arrangement has to be negotiated through the agency of the Colonial Office, the Imperial Government, in which the treaty-making power alone as representing resides.

of Imperial authority.

foreign 20.

Another objection was the inconvenience if a Customs barrier were set up and ships were searched for dutiable articles.
But the system was in force It still prevails in trade, not only with here until the middle of the last century.

America, France, and foreign countries generally, but with the It is, moreover, the only effective Crown Colonies, and even the Channel The revenue means of ascertaining to.

at present attributed commodities in respect of tea and other dutiable is official guesswork, what to Ireland founded mainly on the numbers of the population.
income of Ireland the Dominions, the true to trade amounts Islands.

Ireland the strongest and Great Britain.

objection made by the Ulster Unionists, was that 21.

But urged principally between industry were drawn mainly from Great Britain, which was also the market of their intercourse was essential.
perishable, all the Ulster practically to the control of Customs, an objection free trade of Ulster for much therefore for whose products, which are the products of time the best and But this is true also of Irish agriculture, and are exported industries is at the present to offend our best customer.

times to a greater value than combined, Great Britain It would be folly finished produce, the only market.
the raw materials close commercial They stated in normal it might interrupt that and that interested 22.

As both countries are so deeply markets, we believe that mutual advantage would be a surer guarantee friendly intercourse fears, we are ready free trade between guards against dumping, agreement.
owing either it could not be made without prolonged deliberation than any to agree the two countries term of years, and thereafter if any change became absolutely But, in the Constitutional This would ensure to an altered in articles of home produce, legal to provisions in free access to one another's of free and to meet Unionist Act maintaining to safe- by mutual necessary, reason, in the Irish Parliament.

in Great Britain, for a reasonable or to any other tariff policy restrictions.
in order subject that in proposing 23.

We desire to recall the fact that full powers of taxation for Ireland we are not making a new or unsupported claim.

The three most eminent financial authorities upon the Financial Relations Commission of 1895 — Lord Farrer, Lord Welby, and Mr. Bertram Currie—reported reasoned argument, while disclaiming all political prepossessions, this was the only sound method of solving the question.
The Primrose Committee of financial experts, no longer ago than 1911, unanimously and with equal emphasis reported the Irish control of Customs with arrangements to the same effect, recommending for free trade between used by these high authorities, have lost their weight, and some have gained in a powerful that None of the arguments the two countries.

after exhaustive investigation, strength.


some restricted powers to that when Irish revenue had for three successive years, the financial arrangements would 24.

The Act of 1914. which gives Ireland Customs, contains in Section 26 a distinct guarantee met Irish expenditure be revised for the express purpose of increasing over taxation, as well as for settling an Imperial contribution.

is now fulfilled.
is now fulfilled.

for three years, and it can no longer be said that an estimated deficit justifies any curtailment of Irish control over Irish finance.

the powers of the Irish Parliament The condition A large balance of revenue over expenditure has been growing in regard 25.
We fully agree that there should be some regular machinery for, ensuring close co-operation between Great Britain in commercial and postal matters; and we, therefore, propose the establishment of a Joint Advisory Com- mission with power to make agreements and recommendations on these important matters.

and Ireland 40 to contribute according 26.

The Imperial Contribution.

A most important financial question is the nature and amount of the contribution to be made by Ireland to Imperial services.
to her means we accept without The obligation of Ireland question.

As to the method, our view is that this is another case where the greatest wisdom would lie in following the Dominion precedent—that is, in making the matter one of voluntary negotiation between the Irish and Imperial Governments, the contribution taking the form of payment for services of an Imperial nature, as'by the maintenance of forces for loeafdefenee or the provision of ships.
Ireland, on her side, would renounce all claim to subsidies or payments of any kind from the British Exchequer.

This would make a clean financial settlement.

Great Britain would not be exacting what many might regard as tribute.

Ireland would wipe out bitter memories of over-taxation and neglect, and face the future not only as a self-reliant country, but as a more willing because a more free contributor It must be recognised that if this plan is not adopted to the common defence.
is to be enforced by law, there is no logical course and a statutory contribution but to re-open intricate questions of taxable capacity, which will inevitably bring in the past, and will be held to justify inte prominence the over-taxation of Ireland claims for compensation.

27.

In view of strong Unionist and are willing to agree the outset and afterwards the point, at Irish Governments.
upon provisionally and Purchase, which must be regarded service, as well as the cost of any defence in the future by the Irish Government, The same applies, best be paid in Ireland.

in a large measure, We only stipulate feeling, however, we do not press our views to be fixed Imperial expenses of Land an Irish to a statutory by agreement the annual obligation, payment, between that as an Imperial forces shall be set off against that may be raised and maintained though the the sum so fixed.
The balance could to the Housing in kind by the provision of ships or other war material manufactured scheme.

28.

Local Forces.

from providing military Any settlement which prohibited principle, tutional manner customary The confidence shown by entrusting a thousandfold.

be repaid to cautious views, and we propose that five years, and should then depend on the consent of the Imperial Conference, which as a matter of in the consti- in the Dominions would, in our opinion, be unacceptable.
her with such a power would, we are convinced, to give way for upon But here, again, we have felt the power should forces for her own local defence should be duly represented.

it our duty remain in abeyance Ireland, Ireland 29.

As regards that no attempt would be made to apply it to Ireland without Irish Parliament.

sanction Any attempt impolitic and unjust, and is bound to end in disaster.
the question of conscription, we are ready to take it for granted the consent of the its to impose conscription upon a nation without is utterly for Until between represented.

and equitably and systematic at Westminster, at Westminster.. 30.
Representation regular in a permiuient consultative We preferred that this representa- in which all parts of the is created that could be better served and By sending members tion should cease until such time as a Parliament Empire or the Realm could be properly time we believe that every purpose served by representation by arrangements conference British Governments to the British Parliament of our own, we risk the balance of English influencing questions on which we are not concerned, without any parties and security in matters where Ireland that concerned her voice will carry its due weight, since in order to avoid too much dislocation it is necessary to reduce her membership far below the number to which her population entitles her.
But in view of the great importance attached by Unionists to this representation, we were reluctant to maintain our opposition, and we accordingly agreed to a delegation of 42 Irish members being sent to Westminster by the Irish Parliament, That is the form of representation at Westminster that will least distract Irish attention from the necessary concentration at home, and least divide the views of our members in London from those of the Irish Parliament.

council.
council.

after we have obtained the odium of disturbing a Parliament is properly incurring Irish the 41 for Minorities.

31.

Safeguards are concerned with the future constitutional Britain, safeguards might to be exercised by the Irish Parliament.

in Ireland fear, we have gone to extreme the powers for minorities any misuse of these powers in our anxiety All the points we have hitherto dealt with relations between Ireland and Great to they to reach a settlement.

In regard thai against lengths and 32.


That political parties will long continue on existing lines seems most unlikely.

But we have agreed that an Irish House of Commons at the outset shall have a the Upper House shall consist, of nomi- Unionist nated and ex officio members, of peers elected by their own order, and of other members elected by their own class.

The two Houses would sit and vote together on questions strength of 40 per cent, and that including Money Bills.

in dispute between them, 33.


These arrangements intended and to Unionist views generally, are to give to commercial and industrial a powerful voice in the final decision of questions, including financial measures.

interests, all legislative 34.

We are aware that in agreeing the risk on condition financial on the Irish democracy, and hazard we take that economic and We believe these powers decision of the Irish Parliament, and West to be needless.
the guarantee powers, to these arrangements we put a severe strain But full the adverse opinion of the outside world.

full powers of self-government, especially so constituted.

to the Parliament are entrusted offered against But, provided the wrongful that and Irish questions we trust our countrymen imprudent exercise of to the left of North, South, East are to act loyally and patriotically in the interests of Ireland.

35.
35.

The nomination of some Members to the Lower House appears adequate minority representation the case of the Ulster Unionists, who prefer In sure and practicable way of providing Southern Unionists.

we should be willing for smaller electoral quotas or for any electoral desired would not antagonisms which all good Irishmen the efficiency of Parliament result.
As regards to agree to securing impair desire larger représentât ion for them by arranging expedient which would effect the the Ulster difficulty, we know of no other plan which religious and keep in being to see ended.

to be the only for the election, 36.

Civil Service Commissions.

constituted Civil Service Commissions and appointments.

advise on all patronage We propose the establishment of fairly and competitive examinations to regulate during the War.

these difficulties ought 37.


Temporary Arrangements So far from thinking thai the war should further delay the establishment of an Irish Executive and Parlia- ment, we regard a postponement of these measures as a disaster and their prompt passage into law an advantage which no administrative difficulties should be allowed to thwart.

We recognise, however, that the abnormal conditions brought about by the war make it difficult to carry out some of the changes required.
We do not think The advantage gained by proofs of a sincere desire to let the Irish people manage their own affairs will far outweigh disturbance of official routine.

But, if it is clearly laid down that any reserved Dower will be operative ment is admissible.

What we altogether object to is the postponement of vital questions until after the war.

Now- is the time to decide them in principle.


This makes it impossible for us to agree to any suggestions made by the Government during our deliberations to leave the future of Customs and Excise in complete uncertainty.

the war, a certain amount of'postpone- to be magnified.

immediately after 38.

No doubt it might be difficult to transfer the control of these two services the war, and we therefore consent to their temporary maintenance under during Imperial authority.
But a Joint Board should be immediately set up to determine the true revenue of Ireland from these taxes, and to allocate'their proceeds, as so determined, to the Irish Exchequer.

F 42 39.

We do not like to contemplate even a-temporary reservation of the Police or Post Office.

But, to.

meet the views of others, we have agreed that the Imperial and Irish Governments may jointly arrange for the unified control of either service during the war.

40.

Land Purchase..


It is an important part of any scheme for the settlement of the Irish question that Land Purchase should be completed on terms equitable alike to landlord and tenant; that the administration should be Irish, and that the full cost of Land Purchase, past and future, should be borne by the Irish Govern- ment, on the understanding that it be reckoned as part of Ireland's contribution to Imperial services.
Happily, no serious difference of opinion has arisen in the Convention on the proposals framed by the able Committee which dealt with Land Purchase, and we recommend that a measure embodying the scheme outlined in its Report shall be annexed to the Constitutional Act.

SUMMARY.

41.

To sum up, we propose a Constitution conferring powers on Ireland which are strictly consistent with Imperial unity and strictly conform to the limits set by the reference to the Convention.

42.
42.

We propose an Irish Parliament with full powers of legislation in all Irish in Section 3 of the Act of affairs, subject to the religious safeguards contained 1914 (the existing disabilities to be removed in the Constitutional Act), and with full powers of taxation, but with no power to make laws on Imperial concerns: the Crown, foreign relations, peace and war, the Army and Navy and other allied matters duly specified.

43.
43.

At the same time, we do our utmost to meet the doubts and objections of Unionists by agreeing to the following provisions:— fl) Generous additional representation in the Irish Parliament (2) A guarantee for a reasonable period of Free Trade between Great Britain either country.

in articles which are the produce Ireland or manufacture and of (3) A Joint Advisory Commission to secure cooperation in commercial and postal matters.
(4) Continued representation in the Imperial Parliament in such a way as to reflect the views of the different parties in the Irish Parliament.

(5) A fixed statutory contribution to Imperial expenses.

(6) Independent Civil Service Commissions.

(7) Suspension for a term of years of the power to raise local defence forces.

(8) Suspension till the end of the war of the cowers over Customs and Excise.
to be made by joint agreement for the control of with an arrangement Police and Post Office by the two Governments for a like period.

We also agree to the scheme adopted by the Convention for the speedy completion of Land Purchase, and express our concurrence in the Housing scheme.

43 CONCLUSION.

44.

Such a Constitution would, we believe, meet with the approval of the great in the and good for the in these majority of the people of Ireland.
United States Great Britain into operation beginning of the war, the World's history might have been very different deciding years.

Better It would be accepted by our kindred to the Irish Unionists, and Colonies.

as well as for Ireland.

late than never.

it been put is generous Had at It >Ï<J.

M. HARTY.

Archbishop of Cits!,,I.

^PATRICK O'DONNELL, Bishop of Raphoe.

«¡(JOSEPH MacRORY, Bishop of Down and Connor.

L. O'NEILL, Lord Mayor of Dublin.

T. C. BUTTERFIELD, Lord Mayor of Cork.

P. O'H.


PETERS, Mayor of Clonmel.

JOSEPH DEVLIN, M.P., West lit {fast.

THOMAS LUNDON, M.P., Limerick East.

T. .1.

HARBISON, M.P., East Tyrone.

W. M. MURPHY.

H. GARAHAN, Chairman.

Longford County Council.

JOHN BOLGER, Chairman, Wexford County Council.

JOSEPH K. KETT, Chairman, Clan County Council.

JOHN McHUGH, Chairman, Ftriuanagh County Council.

THOMAS TOAL, Chairman, ilonciijlian (Jointly Council.

WILLIAM R. GUBBIXS.
WILLIAM R. GUBBIXS.

Chairman, Lint,viel: County i 'ount il.

THOMAS DUGGAN, Chairman, Tipperary (North Hiding) I 'ouiily Council JAMES McGARRY, Chairman, Mayo County Council.

JAMES DUNLEVY, Chairman.

Donegal County Council.

P. J. O'NEILL, Chairman.

Comity Dublin County Council.

JOHN BYRNE, Chairman, Queen's County County Council.

J01IX FLANAGAN, Chairman, Hallt,m Urban District Council.

44 NOTE BY THE MAJORITY OF THE NATIONALISTS.

1.
In order to reach an agreement between Unionists letter, as we hold it to be of paramount not at this moment desire to press our objection the Prime Minister's Irish Parliament with an Executive established, and object, measures entire completion that, should be passed by the Imperial Parliament of Land Purchase responsible the concurrently with thereto and legislation necessary and Nationalists, we do in that an importance should be immediately that for tiie to provide to effect the solution of the Housing Problem.
to the fiscal proposals contained to this decision we are largely moved by the belief to establish will be an effective instrument further powers her material the Irish Exchequer only to an agreed by general consent whatever into subject the proposal direct to pay indirect, the 2.

In coming ment we are helping Ireland and that taxation, expenditure, will prevent remained and will give the ruinous liable the Imperial debt.
Irish Government means for internal development, increase of burdens which would certainly result to the full weight of Imperial taxation, and jointly responsible for interests the full proceeds contribution the Govern- that in obtaining for ; require of Irish to Imperial and if Ireland Ireland's upon desire to put on record agstinst claim to full fiscal autonomy 3.
But the decision since postponed, we, the undersigned, decision has British Empire, authority some portion of its financial for Ireland, to be made, our conviction that, an Irish Parliament is entitled, according and ought unless and until, in the general interest independence.
We hold, however, to all precedents to become the time when is only that in the the sole taxing it sees fit to part with in the common between Great that agreement interest of both countries there should be a Free Trade Britain and Ireland.

4.
4.

We desire to add that we protest most,.strongly against the suggestion sittings of the Irish Parliament might be held in some other place alternative Dublin, and also against Ireland other than the proposal there in Dublin a complete branch of the Irish administration.
* should be set up anywhere that that than in ■ills lu |i:ii i iii|iiilis from expressing an opinion on it : Lord MacDonnell raised or discussed matter was never abstains give rise to vehement opposition Nationalist population of Ulster; a would certainly of tins Jrish people senis'iiee.

of Ulster that he feels unable to negative \iews : sind would linspiestisiiisilsly lint so stiisNs; is Loiil tile point.
upon .Msscl lisniisU's desire in Leinster, Munster in lor llns the paragraph is well aware that in lise (.

'ismviil ion, sind without tl its following fullest this reasons: he discussion the proposal would the impose mans Imrslships upon the great ina|ssnts .

rsitive ilieon- to meet all reasonable wishes oí the Unionists the proposal without having before him the Ulster Unionist and probably amongst stud Connaught, lie productive of extr« sulnnnist 45 5.
We further hold that, by the Act constituting an Irish Parliament, power should be taken to prevent dumping, and we believe that this could most conveniently be done by prohibiting and vice versa, of any article which It should be made a duty of the Joint Exchequer Board and action should originate on a report to Ireland, the cost of its production.

the export is being sold under to enquire, into alleged eases of dumping, from Great Britain them.
from M. K. BARRY, WILLIAM BRODERICK, Vice-Chairman, Youghal Urban Cork County Council.

Chairman, District Council.

J. BUTLER, Chairman.

J. J. CLANCY, M.P., North Dublin.

Kilkenny County Council.

!

JAMES J.

C'OEN, Chairman, Westmeath County Council.

i DANIEL CONDREN, Chairman, Wicklow County Council.

PATRICK DEMPSEY.

JOHN DOOLY, Chairman, King's County County Council.

» W. A. DORAN, THOMAS FALLÓN, Chairman, Leitrim County Council.

Louth County Council.


Chairman, JOHN FITZGIBBON, M.P., Chairman, Boscommon County Council.

M. GOVERNEY, Chair/tutu, Carlow Urban District Council.

GWYNX.

M.P.. Galway City.

GRANARD.

STEPHEN THOMAS HALLIGAN, Chairman, Meath County Council.

WALTER KAVANAGH, Chairman, Carlow County Council.

MARTIN McDONOGH, Chairman, Galway Urban District Council.

MacDONNELL.

* JAMES McDONNELL, Chairman, Galway County Council.

A. R. MacMULLEN, Chairman, Cork Chamber of Commerce.
M. J. MINCH, Chairman, Kildare County Council.

JOHN O'DOWD, M.P., Chairman, Sligo County Council.

CHARLES P. O'NEILL, Chairman, Pembroke Urban District Council.

J. J. O'SULLIVAN, Mayor of Waterford (1917).

T. POWEl!.

Chairman, Waterford County Council.

D. REILLY, Chairman, Cavan County Council.

M. SLATTERY, Chairman.

Tipperary (South Riding) County ' Council.

BERTRAM WTNDLE.

* Seo footnote p. 4i)£' ' ft (( 2 3 46 NOTE BY THE MAJORITY OF THE LABOUR REPRESENTATIVES.
1- We desire to make it clear that we have supported about in the Convention between Unionists and Nationalists, that self-government is in the best interests of the country, the agreement which has because that a and it effect should be passed promptly into law.

been brought we believe measure giving that an agreement concessions made which we, as democrats But we feel so deeply in which Labour amongst other 2.

We recognise temporary certain Parliament strong dislike.
Ireland, we have been willing to be the highest to subordinate interests in regard and the Constitution to representatives could not have been brought about without of Irish regard with in that to what we conceive the necessity of setting up a Parliament interests, may be able to find a place, of Labour, our democratic beliefs the of Ireland.

Senate.

3.
Senate.

3.

As to the constitution believing nated element to be given a chance do we feel on this point to accept nomination not sanie should be elected on a democratic of the Senate we arc still totally opposed vote in that body by its own choice.

to the nomi- if Labour is So strongly to recommend our fellow workmen to be represented that we ¿ire prepared to the chamber.

4.

As a compromise we are.

prepared lined in Head 9, sub-heads (1) to (5).

to agree with the nominations as out- House of Commons.
5.

We are of opinion the elected members of the Irish House of Commons, like the members of the Imperial House of Commons, and of the principal Legislatures in the British Dominions, the rate of £400 per annum.

receive a salary which we suggest should be at should that 6.

We are of opinion that continue to be the law governing FRANCHISE.

the Representation the franchise in Ireland.

of the People Act, 1918, should JAMES McCARRON.

HENRY T. WHITLEY.

ROBERT WAUGH.

JOHN MURPHY.

CHARLES McKAY.


NOTE BY THE EARL OF DUNRAVEN.

In signing the Report I desire to say : I. T regret that no recommendation is made in favour of a Grand Committee composed of Ulster representatives in the new Irish Parliament, who would be empowered to supervise legislative and administrative action seriously affecting the interests of that province.

II.
II.

In my opinion Federalism is the best principle upon which to base a Union thai will give Ireland the fullest measure of self-government, that will enable the new Irish Constitution to fit into complete federation of the United Kingdom when the appropriate time comes, and to form a consistent link in the chain that may lead to Constitutional synthesis within the Empire.

III.
III.

I regret, therefore, that the Convention did not proceed on more definite Federallines, but the decisions arrived at are not incompatible with a Federal system they mark reconciliation between hitherto antagonistic bodies of public opinion they indicate the lines which legislation should follow, and I accept them without ; ; further reservation.

DUNRAVEN.

48 NOTE BY SOUTHERN UNIONISTS.


We think a brief statement January it necessary to add to the Report of the Proceedings 2nd, 1918, was, owing of our position, because to circumstances, the Resolution not brought to a decision.

of the Convention by us on introduced 1.
We desire to record our unaltered conviction that the best system of government for Ireland, entered but having based on high considerations the Legislative Union the Con- of Allied from H.M. Government, interests which it was impossible to disregard, we have endeavoured in devising a Constitution which would meet the aspirations within the Empire long held by a great majority of the Irish provides vention on an appeal and Imperial to assist for self-government people.

the Convention 2.
the Convention 2.

We believe that an Irish Parliament and security interests of various classes and creeds Imperial Irishmen by the which no provision was made under agreed with practical safeguards can only be established with safety for the minority in Ireland, in the government which unanimity by by the participation is rendered the Convention possible for and to of the Act of 1914.

3.
3.

We regard the following points as vital our action must be subject to these conditions to any satisfactory :— settlement, and (1).

That Ireland occupy the same position as other parts Kingdom United Kingdom.

in any scheme for the Federation of the Empire of the United or the (2).

That all Imperial questions and services, including the levying of Customs Duties, be left in the hands of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

(3).

That Ireland send representatives to Westminster.

(4).
(4).

That the whole of Ireland participate in any Irish Parliament.

(5).

That the safeguards lished.

in the Report agreed to by the Convention be estab- (6).

That an adequate contribution be made by Ireland to Imperial services.

Our lamented colleague, Sir Henry Blake, expressed by letter in January last his concurrence with us on the above points.

(Signed) MIDLETON.

EDWARD H. ANDREWS.

DESART.

JOHN DUBLIN.

WILLIAM GOULDING.

ANDREW JAMESON.

MAYO.

ORANMORE AND BROWNE.

J.

B. POWELL.

GEO.


F. STEWART.

I desire to associate myself with the above, with the exception of paragraph 1.

(Signed) DUNRAVEN.

49 LIST OF APPENDICES.

[—Letter of Prime Minister to Mr. J. Redmond, dated 16th May, 1917 ... ... II.—List of Members, Secretariat, and Committees of the Irish Convention ... III.—Letter of Chairman to Members of Convention, dated 17th August, 1917 ' ...

IV.--Reports of Sub-Committee of Nine (I.C.

No.


22) ... ... ... ... V.—Report of Sub-Committee on Electoral Systems and Areas (T.C.

No IS) ... VI.- -Provisional Statement of Conclusions of Grand Committee (I.C.

No.

20) ... vn.—1 fPart I.—Memorandum by Southern Unionists on fiscal autonomy (T.C.

No.

211 LPart 2.—Proposals by Southern Unionists as to Joint Revenue Board ... VIII.—Statement by Chairman to Convention 'in proes'otlings in Grand Committee (I.C.

No.
No.

19) ... ... ... ... ... ... ... IX— Report of Sub-Committee on Land Purchase (I.C.

No.

25) ... ...

Page 50 52 57 59 71 81 83 84 85 86 X.—Statement showing decisions of Convention (I.C.

No.

29) on Lord MacDonnell's .

Resolution 108 XI.

-Statement showing decisions of Convention on Provisional Conclusions of Grand Committee (I.C.

No.

31) .

110 XII.—Statement showing decisions ssf Convention on Report of Sub-Committee on Defence and Police (I.C.

No.
No.

30) ... ... ... ... ... 114 XIII.—Statement showing decisions of ('.invention on Report of Sub-Committee on Land Purchase (I.C No.

32) .

116 XIV.—Outline of Mr. Barries Scheme of Irish Government based on Amending Bill, 1914 XV.- -Report of Sub-Committee on Defence and Police (I.C.

No.

27).

... ... XVI.- Report of Committee on Housing (I.C.

No.
No.

33) ... ... ... ... 116 117 136 XVII-Division Lists ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 140 XVIIT.—List Showing the number of sessions of the Convention attended by each member XIX.—Memorandum referred to in Report of Ulster Unionists ... ... ... 173 174 APPENDIX L LETTER FROM THE PRIME MINISTER TO MR. J.

REGARDING IRELAND.

Parliamentary Paper, 1917, (Cd.

8573.)

Dear Mr. Redmond, 10, Downing Street, Whitehall, S.W.
1, lQth May, 1917. it is : The Government have been considering to put an end to a state of affairs which for some time what further action they could take to bring about a settlement of the Irish question.

the subject with a deep They have approached is desire evil not only to Ireland productive of immense The but the Empire.
and to Great Britain choice of alternatives open to them, however, has been narrowed by the fact that in the crisis of a war in which for them, and the liberty of most of the nations of Europe is at stake, revive violent political controversy and so weaken or to the supreme imperil necessity of winning the war.

They have therefore felt that any settlement which they could pro- the war must be one which would be pose during accepted by both sides.
They substantially this accordance would principle—to the Irish representatives, but this, as you know, was impossible, owing to the decision of your party not to negotiate with the Government.
with enter upon negotiations with to take action which would luve wished—in the unity which is essential conceding settlement, The idea of the Government has been to try to effect an immediate the largest possible measure of Home Rule which can at this moment, with- be secured by agreement out prejudice to the undertaking by Parliament of a further and final settlement of the questions the war.
They are there- most to put forward proposals on the fol- fore prepared lowing lines, with a view to present action.

in dispute, after Firstly, they would introduce a Bill for the immediate application of the Home Pule Act to the six counties Ireland, hut excluding therefrom of North-East Ulster, such exclusion to lie subiecl at the end of to reconsideration by Parliament terminated by five years, unless it is previously the action of the Council of Ireland, to he set up as hereinafter describer].
Secondly, with a view to securing to he composed of two delegations, the largest possible mensure of common action for the whole the Bill would provide for a Council of Ireland, of Ireland con- sisting, on the one hand, of nil the members area, returned in num- and, on the other, of a delegation eaual This Council bers from the Irish Parliament.

of anv six could he summoned It would he empowered by n majority members.
of votes to pnss private Bill legislation affecting both the included find the excluded Crown the extension (}>) to recommend the excluded to the area by to Westminster the délestions of each of the excluded initiative on the from area: to (n) inclusion under Order in Council of any Act of the Irish Parlia- ment; (c) to agree to the the Home Rule Act of the whole of Ireland, subject to the assent of the majority of the voters in the in the Crown excluded area, power in that case to extend the Act to all Ireland by Order (d) to make on its own initiative the amendment ing finally includ- of the Home Rule Act as upon Irish questions, recommendations to be vested in Council; passed.
The President of this Council of Ireland would be elected by agreement or in default of agreement by the Crown.

Thirdly, between the delegations, he would be nominated a that scale better to be the Government consider the of the Home Rule Act are such as improve- imposing proposals industries, and ought reconsidered.
objects, the dealt with under conditions which have of owing since the pro- an undue for teachers), which cannot, arisen of Irish in the towns, and the furtherance ("including financial unsatisfactory There are a number of important the development ment of housing of education remuneration to changed the war, he adequately visions of that Act without burden on the Irish taxpayer.
the Government recommend Fourthly, that, the Bill embodying reading, second after the above proposals, together with the Home Rule Act, should he forthwith considered by a confer- ence the Speaker's though Parliament, of someone fidence Speakei course, in the Government decide.
under the same general in his impartiality The of Members the chairmanship and meeting commanding and conference scheme upon which to be constituted con- as Mr. of oí Reform, on Electoral not consisting any alterations Conference full power to suggest judgment exclusively it might himself.
would, would lines have the on of The Government to coming under feel that a proposal which pro- for the greater vides for ¡inmediato Home Rule that part of Ire- part of Ireland, while excluding the Home land which objects Rule Act, for a definite period after which Par- the matter afresh : which re- liament will consider in Ire- cognises ihe profound land for the unity of the country by creating a to consider common as a whole ; which, Conference questions go toward« the crisis of a great war.
the most difficult is as far as they can possibly in sets up a representative a legislative to attempt involved, to adjust settlement sentiment effecting finally, council existing affairs Irish I sincerely hope that They are prepared to introduce a Bill on these lines.

But they feel that it would be idle, and I am sure you will agree with them, to introduce such a Bill unless it were assured of something lilie a second reading acceptance from both Irish parties.
introduce this Bill the party of which you are the head will give to pro- posals which will give immediate in Ireland the same being between at any time be brought about.
to those who wish for it, and will at time create in the means whereby the two sections of the Irish people can and keep continuously a final reconciliation if the Government self-government this measure of support We earnestly have outlined sideration consideration found necessary If an alternative sometimes authoritatively Convention recommend above the proposals which I con- If upon such is action in them we shall proceed at once with the of men of all parties.
the dispassionate immediate a basis for to steps to carry this should not be the case them into effect.

there plan which, though seriously proposed of Irishmen discussed, : that of all parties remains it has been has never been a for the pur- of assembling 5J pose of producing ment.

•> a scheme of Irish self-govern- the the constitution As you will remember interests the Government that a similar expedient might, in Ireland.
Would Irishmen and obstacles, of all and difficulties representative in the country, of the Union of South Africa was framed, despite most by a Con- formidable and vention be- parties in the last lieves it resort, be found effectual of all creeds be too much to hope that in a Convention and parties might meet for the purpose of drafting for their country which should secure a just balance of all the the opposing discords which have so long distracted unhappy Ireland develop- and ment ?
The Government the adoption Bule, the necessary sembling of such a Convention.

be much its harmonious is ready, for Home the as- proposals steps of their present a Constitution in default, of together compose impeded interests finally take and for to I should if you sible to give me your views on this to allow the Government before Monday.

obliged to consider found letter it pos- in order the matter Yours sincerely, D. LLOYD GEORGE.

APPENDIX II.
APPENDIX II.

LIST OF MEMBERS, SECRETARIAT, AND COMMITTEES Chairman—The Rt.

Hon.

Sir HORACE PLUNKETT NAME.

representative of op Abercorn The^Duke Sir R. N. Anderson E. H. Andrews H. B. Armstrong H. T. Barrie M. K. Barry ...

The Archbishop of Dublin (The Most Rev.

Dr. Bernard).

Tyrone Comity Council.

Borough Council Londonderry Dublin Chamber of Commerce Armagh Coimty Council.

Ulster Party.

Cork County Council.

Church of Ireland.

Sir Henry Blake ... 1918).


J. BOLGER W. Broderick J. Butler The Lord Mayo ... (died 23rd February, Southern Unionists.

County Council.

Wexford Munster Urban District Councils.

Kilkenny Cork Borough Council.

Council.

County t Cork (T C. Butter - Queen's Co. County Council.

Irish Party.

Count}' Council.

Party.

Ulster Londonderry Westmeath County Council.

Wicklow Comity Council.

Down Coimty Council.

(Th Church of Ireland.

Nominee.

Nominee Government Government Irish Party.


King's County Coimty Council.

Louth County Council.

Coimty Council.

Nominee.

Tippcvary (North Riding) Donegal County Council.

Government Leitrim County Council.

Roscommon County Council.

Connaught Urban District Councils.

Longford Coimty Council.

Government Nominee.

Leinster Urban Government Nominee.

Limerick County Council.

Irish District Councils.

Party.

field).


J, Byrne J. J. Clancy Sir G. S. Clark J. Jackson Col. J. J. Co en D. Condren Col. R. G. Sharman-Crawford The Archbishop of Armagh Clark ... Rev.

Dr. Crozier).

Dehpsey ... of Desart ... ... Patrick The Earl J. Devlin J. Dooly Capt.

W. A. Doran... T. Duggan j. dunlevy The Earl of Dunraven T. Fallón John Eitzgibbon ... of Granard .

Goi H. Garahan Sir William M. Governey The Earl Wm.

Gubbins Capt.
Gubbins Capt.

S. Gwynn T. Halligan J. Hanna ... T. J. Harbison The Archbishop The Moderator Assembly A. Jameson Lord The Johnston).

Rev.

Dr. Harty).

Meath County Labour (Shipyards).

Council.

of Cashel (The Most Catholic Hierarchy.

Irish Party.

of the General Presbyterian Church.

(The Rt.

Rev.

John Irwin) Mayor ... ... of Belfast (I.

Southern Unionists.

Belfast Borough Council.

The Rt.

Hon.

W. Kavanagh The Bishop op Ross ... Carlow Coimty Council.

(The Most Rev.'

Catholic Hierarchy.


Dr. Kelly).

J. K. Kett M. E. Knight The Marquis T. Lundon E. E, Lysaoht of Londonderry | resigned _' ist January, 1918) Clare Coimty Council.

Ulster Party.

Ulster Party.

Labour (Land and Labour Association) Government Nominee.

Name.

F. McCance J. Stouppe •J.

M<Carrón Sir Crawford M. McDonogh J. McDonnell The Lord MacDonnell Sir Alexander March, 1918).

McCullagh, ... of Swinford McDowell (died 17 53 Representative of Antrim County Council, Labour.
Government Nominee.

Connaught Urban District Councils.

Galway County Council.

Government Nominee.

Government Nominee.

J. MiCarry H. Grattan J. McHugh... c. McKay .

MacGbagh ... Mayo Comity Council.

... Ulster Urban District Councils.

... Fermanagh County Council.

... Labour (Shipbuilding and Engineering Trades .1.

McMeekan A. R. MacMullen The Bishop ... of Down and Coni Federation).

... Ulster Urban District.

Councils.

... Cork Chamber of Commerce.

i (The Catholic Hierarchy.

Most Rev.


Dr. MacRory).

The Provost 1)h. Mahaffy).

of Tkinity (Ti Rev.

Government N of Mayo...

The Earl The Viscount Midleton M. J. Minch J. Murphy Wm.

M. Murphy The Bishop of Raphoe Dr. O'Donnell).

Irish Peers.

Southern Unionists.

Kildare Labour Government Nominee.

Catholic Hierarchy.

Coimty Council.

(National Union of Railwaymen).

.

(The Most Rev.

.

.


... (L. O'Neill) and Browne J. O'Dowd C P. O'Neill The Lord Mayor of Dublin P. J. O'Neill, The Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sullivan P. O'H.

Peters H. M. Pollock J.

B. Powell T. Power Sir Stephen J. Ê. Redmond (died Qtk March, 1918) D. Reilly ... George Russell M. Slattery O. E. Stewart T. Toal Col. R. H. Wallace (Resigned, 1st Feb., 1918) B. Quin ... .

R. Waii.h Sir \V.

Whitla H. T. Whitley, Sir B. Windle .

Sligo County Council.

Leinster Urban District Councils.

Dublin Council.


Borough Dublin County Council.

Irish Peers.

Waterford Borough Council.

Munster Urban District Councils.

Belfast Chamber of Commerce.

Southern Unionists.

Waterford County Council.

Limerick Borough Council.

Irish Party.

(■avan County Council.

Government Nominee.

Tipperary Southern Unionists.

Monaghan Coimty Council.

Ulster Party.

Labour (Belfast and District Building Trades (S. Riding) Comity Council.

Federation).

Government Nominee.


Belfast and District Trades' Council.

Government Nominee.

Secretary - The Lord Southborough.

Secretariat— Librarian— J ~i Private Secretary Private Secretary to Chairman.

Walter Callan, Captain R. J. H. Shaw, V Assistant Secretaries.

R. V. Veknon, Cruise O'Brien, Hon.

F. Hopwood, Squadron-Observer Thomas Moles.

Shan Bullock.

M. Fitzgerald.

Mrs. R. V. Vernon.

E. B.

D'Alton, P. E. Holland, Registrar and Chief Clerk, Accountant.

Childers, Erskine R.N.


to Secretary.

Sergeant-at-Arms—Captain Bayliss.

;>4 COMMITTEES AND SUB-COMMITTEES OF THE IRISH CONVENTION.

Under the Standing Orders the Chairman of the Convention was ex officio a member c tees.

Committee, appointed July 25th, 1917, to advise on the selection of a Chairman.

(i).

(Chairman).

of Dublin.

Mr. Redmond, Mr. Barrie.

The Lord Mayor Mr. Duggan.

Mr. McDonogh.

Mr. McDowell.

Lord Midleton.

Mr. P. J. O'Neill.

Mr. Russell.

Mr. Wbjtley.


Preliminary Procedure Committee, appointed (2).

July 26th, 1917, to draft Standing Orders and pro- posals for conducting tthe business of the Convention.

of Armagh, {Chairman).

of Dublin.

Members.

The Archbishop Mr. Barrie.

The Lord Mayor Lord Granard.

Captain Gwynn.

Mr. McDowell.

Mr. Minch.

Mr. J. Murphy.

Mr. W. M. Murphy.

Mr. Powell.

Committee (3).

appointed, August 8th, 1917, to advise on the choice of a Grand Committee.

Members.
Members.

The same as in No.

(1).

(4).

appointed August 9th, 1917, to consult with and by the Convention, to exercise such powers the Chairman as may from as to the general to time be time Grand Committee, to be adopted procedure delegated to it.by the Convention.

of Dublin.

of Belfast.

of Dublin.

of Cashel.

of Cork.

Mr. (afterwards Sir) R. N. Anderson.

Mr. Barrie.

The Lord Mayor The Archbishop The Lord Mayor Mr. Devlin.

The Archbishop The Lord Mayor Captain Gwvnn.

Mr, Harbison.

Mr. Lysaght.


Alderman McCarron.

Lord MacDonnell.

Mr. (afterwards Lord Midleton.

Mr. W. M. Murphy.

Mr. P. J. O'Neill, Mr. Pollock.

Me.

Stewart.

Mr. Waugh.

Sir A.)

McDowell.

reconstructed l>\- t In- of the General Assembly.

Mr. Clancy.

Lord Londonderry'.

The Moderator Mr. Powell.

The Bishop Mr. Redmom».

The Bishop Mr. Russell of Raphoe.

uf Ross.

* for the following members : Mr. Anderson.

The Lord Mayor The Archbishop The Lord Mayor The Lord Mayor Mr. Harbison.
Mr. P. J. O'Neill.

Mr. Stewart.

of Belfast.

of Cashel.

of Cork.

of Dublin.

By a resolution of the Convention on December 18th, 1917, The Archbishop of Armagh added to the Grand Committee.
Mr. Lysaght having resigned his membership of the Convention ceased tobe a member of Grand Committee Mr. Russell Grand Committee Mr. Redmond Sir Alexander 21st, 1918. on January having resigned his membership of the Convention ceased to be a member of on February 1st, 1918. died on March McDowell 6th, 1918. died on March 17th, 1918.

SUB-COMMITTEES OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE.

Mr. Barrie.

Captain Gwynn.

Lord MacDonnell.

(ii.)


Sub-Committee of Nine, appointed October 11th, 1917, to sit in private to endeavour to find a basis for agreement.

Members.

Mr. Barrie.

Mr. Devlin.

Lord Londonderry.

Sir A. McDowell.

Lord Midleton.

Mr. W. M. Murphy.

The Bishop Mr. Redmond.

Mr. Russell.

of Raphoe.

Sir Alexander McDowell was prevented, by illness, from attending the meetings of this Sub- committee after the first, and his place was taken by Mr. Pollock.

(¡ii.)
(¡ii.)

Sub-Committee, appointed November 1st, 1917, to consider questions of Franchise and Electoral Systems and Areas in relation to an Irish Parliament.

of Dublin (Cl^irman).

Goulding.

The Archbishop Sir William Lord Granard.

Mr. Harbison.

Mr. Lysaght.

Mr. McCarron.

Mr. P. J. O'Neill.

Mr. Waugh.

• For the preparation of the supplemental report Mr. Armstrong and Sir Crawford McCullagh joined the Sub-Committee.

56 (iv.)
56 (iv.)

Sub-Committee, appointed November 1st, 1917, to enquire into the problems presented by Land Purchase in Ireland: Members.

Lord MacDonnell Mr. Barry.

Mr. Clancy.

Mr. Knight.

Lord .

Oranmore The Bishop Mr. Stewart.

of Ross.

(Chairman).

and Browne.

(v.) Sub-Committee appointed November 1st, 1917, to consider :— (a).

What powers of local defence might be delegated to an Irish Government, consistent with the requirements of Imperial defence, (b).
The future of the Royal Irish Constabulary and the Dublin Metropolitan Police.

Members.

Lord Desart The Duke Captain Doran.

(Chairman).

of Abercorn.

(vi.)

Sub-Committee appointed November 27th, 1917. to consider the question of the powers of an Irish Parliament to amend its constitution.

Mr. Powell.

Members.

(Chairman).

Lord MacDonnell Lord Desart.

Lord Londonderry.

Mr. Lysaght.

Mr. Waugh. '

IHoi'.-.tiMU appointed .January 24th, 1918, by the Convention to confer with the Cabinet.

Members.
Members.

of the Convention.

of Dublés.

of Dublin.

The Chairman Mr. Barrie.

Mr. Devlin.

The Archbishop The Lord Mayor Lord Dunraven.

Mr. Gubbins.

Lord Londonderry.

Mr. McCarron.

Lord MacDonnell.

Lord Midleton.

Mr. W. M. Murphy.

Mr. Pollock.

The Bishop Mr. Redmond.

Mr. Russell.

Mr. Waugh.

of Raphoe.

Committee Prime Minister's urban areas in Ireland.

appointed letter under what conditions Government 1918, by ihe Convention assistance February 28th.

(OJ.
(OJ.

to consider with could best be given reference to the in to housing Members.

of Dublin (Chairman).

The Lord Mayor Sir R. N. Anderson.

The Lord Mayor Mr. Clancy.

The Lord Mayor Mr. Devlin.

Sir Wm.

Goulding.

* Alderman MoCarron.

of Belfast.

of Cork.

Mr. McDonogh.

Mr. MacGeagh.

Mr. J. Murphy.

Mr. Peters.

Mr. Stewart.

.

Mr. Waugh.

Mr, Whitley. "

57 APPENDIX m. Letter from Chairman to the Members or the Convention.

K.1LTERAGH, FOXROCK, Co. Dublin, 17th August, 1917.
My Lords and Gentlemen, On Tuesday next, the necessary been made, we shall task entrusted having definite sible basis of agreement sections of our government of our country.
countrymen to us, the search between upon enter preparations upon the for a pos- the different future the importance The historic some thoughts of the occasion, and my to it, move me in regard upon cer- I desire more for our in deliberations, at the Session of August 8-9, as it has own special responsibility to send you in advance tain aspects of the work before us.

particularly coming principle since been elaborated I do so because dented by your Grand Committee.
is as unprece- the plan adopted for which the procedure you as the situation it was devised.

to explain approved which for the their come incidental of distrust We have in an atmosphere upon to overcome to naught in notoriously a constitution.

Those who tell us that our best meant en- deavours must have ample history of grounds pessimism similar efforts.
They see us confronted with a task which has baffled generation after generation ot the the British people—called to the work of difficulties framing to resolve these difficulties in a time of grave domestic un- and suspicion, rest, and in the midst of the greatest war in human history I It is true that this is the first attempt to get the Irish question settled by Irishmen in But, even so, no man of sense would Ireland.
inside expect My seme wholly new spirit were this neces- hopes the first sary condition to reveal time, an opportunity the whole of the Irish mind, and the whole of the foreigner whom we have Irish heart, to tempted impress to fool, but to each other as man to man, with the of our common common For has been afforded to the and perhaps aim of the welfare it to succeed unless has been supplied.

the Convention are sometimes that already to prevail.
rest upon the fact not the precedents It must be admitted, however, that the best will the right way be of analo- a great deal but the final conclusion must be and that a wholly new is perfect, to the great difficulties of our This much has, I be- in the world will not avail unless found.

After searching gous conventions may be learned; that no analogy method of approach task must be discovered.

lieve, been accomplished.


and conferences, and relevant, In devising the procedure best calculated to there- secure ordered, harmonious, in the Convention we had fore fruitful, discussion to take into account of its mem- the circumstances lives.

We have most of us some acquaint- bers' ance with public affairs, but very few of us have made a close study of political science and insti- tutions.
to take a useful part in the coming deliberations we shall nearly all of us need a certain minimum of preparation.

In order, therefore, We must, of course, have a general knowledge of the main factors in our political problem and of the various solutions which are known to be seriously proposed.

We ought, aiso, to be fairly in which similar prob- familiar with the manner lems have been solved in other parts of the world, in the Dominions of the Com- more particularly monwealth to which we belong.
This knowledge is being supplied to us from the Secretariat and will continue to be supplied as the occasion de- wishing mands.

of their own, or to dis- cither can obtain by others, forward cuss proposals put from members of the staff and technical assistance be supplied with books the Reference Library.

any members Furthermore, to present proposals from and outside So much for the assistance to angry controversy that upon some I now come to the procedure the Con- inside.

vention.
vention.

Before the plan which I shall presently describe was adopted, two other methods were considered.

The first was a general discussion upon the exist- ing system of government the best method of improving it, everybody being allowed to dis- course at large upon the whole or any part of this This plan was rejected on the enormous subject.
ground that " lean and profitless debate " might weary and disgust business men, it might in- issue lead opportunely raised, or that it might " peter out " and leave us still to decide how to get seriously to the best pre- work.

The second plan, to point, was a discussion upon a cedents seemed series of resolutions of principle reached new constitution.

blind alley.

frame issues upon which we have violent disagreement.

to be to explore seemed we know men have been ground.
be a too like a to at once in in the past been The path of wisdom the regions where first to find common trying the main questions agreement it is any use trying This, also, It would pass the wit of man must to construct resolutions without to which to which looked raising raising before the as to the Convention I recommended to the Convention Stage."
government the Grand Committee, The procedure adopted is that which, after the best thought of which I was at On Tuesday next we com- for convenience we may call the In this, all proposals for of Ireland will be sub- in such form and in such through which Each plan will be the purpose of the discussion giving the matter capable, their last Session.

mence what " Presentation future the mitted order as they will have passed, direct.
in turn, discussed being, not to arrive at any final decision as to its adoption it thoroughly by as its supporters may think well such amendment they have heard.

to adopt in view of the arguments Stage should that It is intended be continued it has until it all the proposals which have any likeli- before hood of being adopted, either wholly or in part.
This method can only succeed th« the Presentation the Convention to have it improved if it obtains and to have but merely feels that rejection, explained or H as sections sections of Irishmen the different to know clearly, realization.

them it is complained support of the Convention.


of government changes before, what that the different Further, many of us who have hopes have had no expectation Cnnseijueiitlv, The purpose general in view is, as has been, I trust, made clear above, in to enable they have the Convention is in our present never known of and system exactly what de- mand.

political early presented final It will do their best, by constructive every proposal in turn presented sible form.

and and conversational impassioned.


to express his views because he has difficulty at first in find- to few be- which ing I sides Members of Parliament speak feelingly when I say that ence must be extended to enable detail to upon their merits.

the "members of the Convention should be argumentative than declamatory criticism, to get in the best pos- indulged of their never No man should hesitate and the utmost to bail speakers.
the phraseology to be come in sufficient The debate is familiar judgment is hoped lawyers.

we have rather indulg- that a At the meeting of the Grand Committee it was agreed after that, procédure.

instruct ad hoc, the Convention Stage, instant, it might the future 14th sentation to decide upon gested mittee, which, various preliminary basis of an agreed measure.
then be re-submitted would go through that or a Committee in view of the opinions proposals which examination, the usual to draft on the the Pre- should be asked It was sug- the Grand Com- a Bill the for the The draft would it in the submitted where upon form expressed liad been might possibly to the Convention, stupes of a Bill 58 House of Commons.

It may be too much to hope ilia!

complete agreement will be come to within the four corners of a single Bill, but I should be grievous!
; disappointed if we did not find ourselves to the world that we iii a position wuv not nearly so far apart in our political views and desires as had been formerly believed.
to announce In concluding this letter—already, I fear, too I cannot refrain from adding a few sentences Inn- from the speech of Sir Henry de Villiers on the 12th October, 1008, before the South African National Convention, which had just unanimously elected him to preside over its deliberations: — to encounter are great enough without " The difficulties," lie said, " which we shall have our going out of our way in order to add to them, but I feel confident that they will not prove to Everything depends upon be insurmountable.
the spirit with which we approach the perform- ance of our task.

Failure is certain if we start with a feeling of distrust and suspicion of each other and with the sole desire to secure as many respective advantages Colonies.

political Success if we give each other our fullest confidence and act upon the principle of I hat, while not neglectful the ifiose who have of time being, British South Africa."
of the us here, we are, of interests for the whole as we can or our sent representatives parties is certain for our respective He was an optimist of We know who was right and who was in a wilderness crying pessimists.

wrong.

My Lords and Gentlemen, Very faithfully yours, HORACE PLUNKETT.

APPENDIX IV.

INTERIM AND FINAL REPORTS, TO THE GRAND COMMITTEE, OF THE SUB- COMMITTEE OF NIXE.

(I.C.

No.

22.)

Note.

By ber 25th passed (.


'on vent ion tin.- liesulution the 1 Inch had been the Convention referred submitted to to prepare at Cork on Septem- various the to and dis- the Grand Com- a scheme which might the the expressed course by of the if possible the Convention, to and difficulties during in in order cussed mittee, for submission meet different debate.
the views speakers At its meeting on October 11th the Grand with Committee instructions find a basis Grand Committee appointed to sit in private for agreement, a Sub-Committee, to endea to report and from time to time.

The fol- sideration to the mittee constituted lowing members tee :—Mr.
Barrie; Mr. Devlin; The Marquis of Sir A. McDowell; Londonderry; Midleton; Mr. William M. Murphy; of Raphoe; Mr. Redmond, Viscount the Bishop the Sub-Commit- It was further appoint mittee as they may require they and Mr. Russell.

that resolved a Chairman from il necessary, think secretarial assistance time the Sub-Com- time should they should that and to services of Sir Francis Hopwood.

The Reports attached hereto are the Reports made by this Bub-Committee of the Conv by lb- (i ion, and d Committee.
to the Grand Coin- into con- taken Report of the Sub-Committee to the Grand Committee Irish Con The Sub-Committee appointed at Committee with instructions to find a basis the to submit their meeting to sit in private for agreement, following have Interim Report: — by on October the Grand 11th, to endeavour the honour We We held our first meeting in Dublin on October 11th.

on met October 24th and 25th, and in Dublin on October 30th and 31st, November 1st, 5th, Gth, 7th, 13th, 14th and 15th.
subsequently in London Owing to his serious illness, which we greatly regret, we were deprived of the services of Sir Alexander McDowell after By the unanimous agreement mittee his place was taken by Mr. Pollock, this was Committee.

first meeting.

of the Sub-Com- and the Grand subsequently approved the by We decided to tak'e the heads of the scheme submitted by the Bishop of Raphoe to the Grand Committee on October 11th as the basis of our deliberations.
A copy of this document is at- tached (Schedule I.).

scheme.

indicates representatives it was considered should By November 7th we had arrived at certain upon most of the heads conclusions are set out also the for further considera- desirable communi- conclusions provisional These the of IL, which in Schedule points which were reserved tion.
At this stage that the Ulster cate with their Advisory Committee with a view to discovering how far the arrangement proposed with regard to the composition of the two Houses of Parliament was likely to prove acceptable.

Having taken this course, they intimated to us on November 13th that the Advisory Committee were unable to approve of the suggestion that the Ulster representation in the Lower House should be strengthened by the addition of a num- ber of nominated members.
They considered that the proposal to include nominated members to represent Southern Unionists could be de- fended and might he accepted, but the same con- siderations did not apply in the case of Ulster The Ulster representatives undertook to submif the interests ol proposals to us for safeguarding Ulster hv means other than the extri tation which we had contemplated.
By this time, however, it had become apparent that there was a sharp divergence of opinion in as the by the Bishop of Raphoe pending of the to financial Irish Parliament.
powers The con federation the repre- should be no Irish and pro- Parliament, Irish Parlia- the by finance, in- over and suggested the a to negotiate there Imperial exercise control and Excise, of a Commission to in the Sub-Committee to be entrusted submitted scheme that, templated United Kingdom, sentation the for vided ment of cluding Customs appointment Trade, Postal, Gréai Britain sentatives sisted left the complete to the Imperial and Customs Union between repre- in- thai Eull control over finance should be The Ulster proposals, and demurred Ireland.
to these and Parliament.

Lord Southbnroiigb submitted to us certain or effecting a compromise by giving to for Free Trade between Great provisions to A copy of these full control, subject to the Irish Parliament an arrangement Britain meet proposals Ireland, the case of dumping.

is attached—Schedule special III.

and and was, anxious however, to report lines, but and we appeared to reach an agree- It was not found possible these to ment upon to the Grand have no alternative Committee to that effect.
The Chairman of the Convention we in the failure to reach an should not acquiesce there had been a closer exami- agreement of nation and the other.

He embodied these views in a letter in which be enclosed certain questions addressed and Nationalist to respectively, and also a list of possible compro- ' ''.pies of this letter and of its enclosures iu: are attached—Schedule representatives the T'lster until the arguments the one side that on IV.
- One set of replies was submitted Mr. Redmond, Devlin, and Mr. Russell—Schedule the Bishop jointly by of Raphoe, Mr V. A separate Murphy—Schedule reply was submitted bv Mr VI.

thai in the circumstances Th ¡se !■ nlies were communicated to the Ulster representatives, and considered by them.
They of fell views disclosed was so great thai no useful pur- pose would be served by a formal replv to the questions submitted to them, and on November 14th vention they addressed a letter of the Con- slat.-nient to the Chairman the divergence containing a general H 2 (il) of their attitude on the financial problem.

of this letter were communicated time copy to all members of the Sub-Committee.

is attached—Schedule CopieB the same A VII.


at also submitted Lord Soutbborough to us pro- posals for a compromise, which were a develop- previously made by Lord ment of a suggestion that Customs should be reserved to the Midleton should be Imperial Parliament, and (of Under .specially considered.

the is attached—Schedule which a copy imposition of Customs Duties would remain with these proposals VIII.)

that Excise the Impjrial Parliament?


the collection would lie carried out under the authority of a Joint Board, and an Irish contribution to Imperial Services would be mude a first charge against the Customs revenue.

sources of revenue would be under the control of the Irish Parlia- remaining The We are continuing our sittings, and have still to consider a proposal to be put forward by Lord Londonderry.

15th November, 1917.

SCHEDULE I.

HEADS OF THE SCHEME, Irish 1.


The Irish Parlia- ment of the consist of the King, an Irish House of Lords, and an Irish of Commons.

Parliament.

House The of the to have Irish Parliament.

The 2.

Powers to Irish Parliament laws for the peace, order and good govern- make and ment to of restrictions the in 3 and 4 below.

the general power exclusions specified subject Ireland 3.

Exclusions from Power of Irish Parlia- to have no power Irish Parliament laws on the following matters:— ment.
to make The and succession (See 1014 Act, sect.

(1) Crown 2 (1).

(2) Making conduct as neutrals).

(3) The Army (a) Assent of peace and war Act sect.

2 (2) ).

but and Navy, (including of Irish Parliament required for conscription.

years force King, Conference, be represented, provided (b) The Irish Parliament may after raise and maintain subject to the authority a territorial five of the .

that in which Imperial the Ireland would assents.

(4) Treaties and foreign relations (including extradition).
Ireland to have power in respect similar of commercial to the dominions treaties.

(5) Dignities and titles of honour.

(6) Any necessary certain and beacons, buoys, be settled with the Military of Majesty 4.

Restriction control of naval harbours, lighthouses, regards powers as cables, wireless reference terminals, to and Naval to the requirements forces of His in various contingencies.

on power of Irish Parlia- ment ON MATTERS WITHIN (1) Prohibition of laws interfering with ITS COMPETENCE.
religious equality (Act sect.

3).

N.B.—A sub-section annul any existing tage or disability, belief.

framed should be legal penalty, disadvan- on account of religious to (2) Safeguard (if desired) for Trinity College to section 42 similar and Queen's University of Act.

(3) Money hills to be founded only on Vice- regal message (Act section 10 (2) ).

(4) Privilege of members of Irish Parlia- to be limited as in Act (sect.

12).

ment (Ö) Rights of existing Irish Officers to be safeguarded (Act sects.
32-7).

5.

Constitutional The power to amend its constitu- of the Irish Parliament tion is a subject which should be considered b\ a Sub-Committee.

Amendments.

in Ireland 6.

Executive Authority.

executive power in the King, but exercisable through the Lord Lieutenant on the advice of an Irish Executive Committee in the manner set out in Act (Sect.

4).

to continue vested The 7.

Dissolution Irish Parliament and dissolved as set out in Act (sect.

6).

of The to be summoned, prorogued [rish Parliament.


8.

Assent to Bills.

Boyal assent given or withheld as set out in Act to be (sect.

7).

9.

Constitution (1) Lord (2) Four Archbishops Chancellor of the House of Lords.

... 1 of or Bishops ... the Boman Catholic Church 4 (3) Two Archbishops (4) The the Church .Moderator or Bishops of ... 2 of Ireland of the General Assemblv ... ... 1 (5) The Lord'Mayors of Dublin, Belfast (6) Thirty-nine and Cork Temporal Lords ... 3 ... 39 50 elected 10.
Constitution of House of Commons.

The Irish House of Commons to consist of 168 mem- bers—162 to by constituencies similar those set out in the memorandum of the Irish Trades Union Congress and two each by Dublin University, the Queen's University.

the National University, and The principle of proportional vote with a single a constituency returns wherever members, and no constituency than seven.
transferable representation to be observed three or more to return more During the first ten years of the Irish House to be twelve additional members of Commons nominated and trade of twelve to represent to represent the industries, commerce the North-east of Ireland, and the Southern Unionists.

The House of Commons to continue for five years unless previously dissolved.

in the House of Commons, 11, Money Bills.

Money bills to originate only to be amended or rejected by the House of Lords (see Act sect.
10).

and not 12.

Disagreements between Dis- ret ween Houses.

agreements the to be two Houses solved by joint sittings as set out in Act sect.

11.

L3.

Representation in the to cease until sentation Kingdom liament.

at Westminster.

Parliament of Repre- the United par- there is a federal 14.

Finance.

the powers of the The provision Irish Parliament (par.

No.

2) as it cus- including gives over finance, to complete toms An control and excise.
loud consolidated Irish Controller Irish and exchequer and an to be appointed be established Auditor-General Act (section 14 (1) and section 21).

lie declared it leviable 11' necessary, at present to be levied and collected in Ireland should until should the that as set out to and in all con- Irish otherwise decides.

adjustments necessary between Great Britain transition period and should be made.

of Ireland revenue during as the taxes tinue Parliament The L5.
As soon as may be after the passing of the a trade, represent to represent one-half to the other half shall be chosen Act a joint Commission, of winch and shall be appointed by His Majestj and agree upon postal union between Great Britain and shall aim at securing interests where or parallel advantage; interests for the least prejudice the members Ireland Great Britain, fco negotiate and customs Ireland, which the mutual in all such matters or connected for mutual their to provide the are common, of being united and are separate interests or capable in other matters or competitive interests with and promoting fair pursuit of these countries of both countries.
to both where their of within as agreed of both The Convention the parliaments disapproved to not shall become of force and effect 10 years to modification mutual moval shall parliaments, in like manner and be subject subject agreement.

shall be submitted countries, the next and, if 30 days.

for a period of by or renewal or re- to both Every modification be submitted their approval.
to If the Commission fails of by either parliament, the Convention agreed to arrive at an agree- upon is the most to the foreign shall countries, force by a proclama- relating a with government, both terms in force whether a dominion as between into if nation ment, or disapproved favoured matter in question, or with country operative become and shall be brought tion of His Majesty.

The Irish Contribution.

16.


Imperial shall fix the contribution which Par- Ireland to the cost of Imperial defence and and the and the the army in the in the national debt may be liament shall make administration, economic ability of her population, protection which Ireland from and navy.

of Ireland past and her share set off against The over-taxation considering each other.

financial receives Ireland to have no share revenue of the Imperial Government Shares, etc.)
in the miscellaneous (Suez Canal As from the passing of the Act or the transfer should have been savings in services, liability Ireland, that for deposits the for all and Irish Government loans of any assume made banks, in etc.

The question in the next of section.

land purchase is dealt with 17.

Land Purchase.

all excess to assume responsibility loans, and to receive all payments purchasers.
Future stock The Irish Government land purchase to be entitled for and bonus, to be made by tenant loans tu be made on the credit of the satisfactory arrange- can be made, on the credit of the Imperial or, it Irish Government, ments Government.

An equitable scheine would be compulsory where voluntary after a certain total provision present amounts bargains period, for excess of purchase laud on owner and tenant are not could be sanctioned.

that alike, forthcoming stock and bonus The at a year.
to £800,000 the from will, owing be at a much greater it was in Another million, to changes tax payer for pending in the price in pending com- or mure, may be needed already (lie cases rate The subsidy than agreements of money, cases pleted.

for largely credit tion of an Imperial an Imperial for discharging the unsold one, and Ireland it in considering contribution.

areas.

The whole obligation is should get the ques- 18.

Judicial of the Government Power.


The following provisions of Ireland Act to be adopted: Irish of existing (a) Safeguarding Judges (b) Leaving position 32).

appointment (sec.

of future to the removal both Houses Irish Government and to the Crown on address of Parliament (c) Transferring Lords appeals from to the Judicial Irish the House Committee, Judges (sec.

Judges their from (sec.

27).

of sion examinations promotions, (d) Extending right of appeal to this Court.

(Sec.

28 (4) and Section 30 (1-2).


of questions as to reference (e) Provision of validity to Judicial Committee (see section 29).

19.

Lord Lieutenant.

to hold office for 6 years, no religious disqualification The Lord Lieutenant and to to be subject (as in Act, sect.

31).

A Civil Service Commis- to regulate competitive to the public service, 20.

Civil Service.

to be appointed for admission of higher the exercise 21.

Deferring patronage.


that and should be made for ensuring in Provision the salaries of Irish public officials, the future appointed after the passing of the Act, shall be upon a scale appropriate Taking Services.

the Irish Government, taking chase, Old Age Pensions, National Labour Exchanges, Post Office, Trustee Savings Banks, and Friendly Societies.

Irish) to permit if they so desire, to defer Pur- Insurance, to Ireland.
over to be made Arrangements to Land servi.-es certain relating over the SCHEDULE II.

A STATEMENT OF THE PROVISIONAL CONCLUSIONS AT WHICH THE SUB- COMMITTEE HAD ARRIVE]) BY NOVEMBER 7th.

-eheme standings (The Heals referred to below are fchbse of the Head pro\ , submitted.

* under- i¡ The isiomi!

arrived at were all contingent on full "lit on the general scheme being reached), tions.

* See Schedule I. .

The establishment of an Irish Par- .


accepted as the basis of the delibera- Head 2, The powers of the Irish Parliament "are to be those set out in the scheme.

Head 3.

The restrictions are accepted gener- ally, subject Sub-head to the following qualifications: — (3), (a) and (b).

These were deferred fur further consideration.

62 tu 10U cr 120 members it House came down might be convenient to reduce the Senate to 4U members.

of the details of the above scheme.


This would involve a reconsideration It was agreed that the members of the Upper seven be nominated should say, for, House years.

Sub-head (4) is reserved in connection with of finance, the powers of a Dominion Commercial Treaties.

in so far as it gives for consideration the general question to Ireland in regard to Sub-head ((>)■ It is considered that for naval and military of harbours poses" trol of naval harbours."
should be substituted "control pur- for "con- Head 4.

1, Is accepted.

With regard to sub- of treatment the provision denominations head religious from That the Act of L829 should be annulled.

of equal the disabilities, for equal in future must treatment etc., a basis is, remaining proceed at present.

under Head 5. power of the stitution mittee.

It is agreed that Irish Parliament should be considered the question of the its Con- to amend by a sub-com- IIi-:.\!)

Ii.
Ii.

Is accepted, the Lord Lieutenant that personage.

with the understanding is to be a non-political Head 7.

Is accepted.

Head 8.

Is accepted, subject to a preference being instead of their postponement.

expressed the for reservation of Bills Head 9 The title of Senate was preferred to that of House of Lords.

The following modification was provisionally scheme the of the proposals approved: — in Constitution of Senate.
Lord Chancellor ... ... 1 Archbishops Roman Archbishops Church Moderator Lord Mayors or Bishops Catholic or Bishops of the Church ... 4 of the ... of Ireland of the General Assembly ... 2 1 of Dublin, Belfast and Cork Irish Peers ... ...
Privy Councillors ... ... ... ... 3 ... 15 ... 15 Representatives nated of Commerce by Lord Lieutenant nomi- ... 15 Labour Representatives each province) (1 from ... ... 4 Total ... GO Assembly suggested that might the that the of Roman Catholic Bishops would be the Secretary be added.

an addition intimated that of to In it was It was General event number expected.

It was also suggested the Privy Coun- should be of two or three years' that cillors selected standing.
The size of the Senate must he considered the size of the Lower House, to relation ii was subsequently in and if the Lower considered that that forty, the Unionists in the Lower House, of House of Com- Head 10.

Constitution should mons.

It was agreed of a proportion be offered, by effective means, that and in forty per cent, thirty should the Upper House of, say, stake in the country.
be men with a substantial The exact method of arriving at this result was it was agreed left for further it could only be obtained by including a that It substantial to a was the minimum should be smaller House, than that, undemocratic the size of the House of nominated members.

to element consideration, suggested in order number reduce this but in the scheme.

in that should continue the nominated element less tor not that proposed It was stipulated in the Lower House ten years.
than Lord Midleton suggested of this nominated that, element, be made to This was the numbers reserved for on the disap- an addition of the Upper further con- pearance should House.

sideration.

11.

Money Bills.

Head the Senate sitting of both Houses should have power It was agreed that to force a joint over Money Bills.

Head Agreed.

12.

Disagreement between Hooses.

that at Westminster.

intimated that, while Head 13.

Representation The Unionist representatives was a sine qua non.
On the Nationalist was stated continuance Parliament, Kingdom, as a sine qua non.

It was agreed representation of pending Federation that any Irish they did not look upon they did not favour in the Imperial of the United its cessation this it the side representatives to deliber- at Westminster must have full power ate and vote on all questions.

consideration.
consideration.

Irish representatives The question whether at should be directly elected or dele- Westminster gated by the Irish Parliament was reserved for that further the presence of a nominated element in the Irish the House give Unionists for a time in a delegation appointed by that House than by members of Commons would probably larger representation ït was suggested directly elected.

Heads 14 and 15.

Finance.

Reserved for further consideration.


The Nationalist a guarantee representatives were prepared of Free Trade between at any rate to accept Great Britain and Ireland, for a term of years.

The Unionists were of opinion that such a guarantee was the Irish control of Customs and Excise.

inconsistent with Head 16.

Imperial Contribution.

for further question of Finance.

consideration in connection with Reserved the Head 17.

Land Purchase.

consultation with the Sub-Committee gating this question.
Reserved for investi- Head IS.

Judicial Powers.

Agreed, condi- tionally upon the Unionists liavir.

representation agreed that a political officer, but of the Senate in the Irish Parliament.

the Lord Chancellor It was should not be that his salary as Speaker should be placed on the Estimates.

Head 19.

Lord Lieutenant.

salary of the Lord Lieutenant to throw the post open It was agreed should to men not the that be sufficient of great wealth.
It was arranged that enquiries as to the charges on the Lord Lieutenant's at present.

should be made salary It was agreed that Justices to no religious disqualifications.

the Lords be subject should Head 20.

Civil Servants.

a strong Civil Service Commission It was agreed should that be established, and the following Lord Chancellor, appointed Chairman; by the Lord Lieutenant, two permanent and members holding office during good behaviour.
of to be followed The practice Commission the Knglish Civil Service as far as possible.

Competitive examinations to regulate admis- sion to the Sendee as far as possible.

The Unionist members as to the exercise having of patronage expressed in Ulster, two additional members to protect the Commission that to anxiety it was suggested might be added their interests.

It was agreed that the present exercise of patronage that to be reviewed, be no unpaid Magistrates.
and by the Lord Chancellor would there should, require in future, A clause appointments be Service Commissiniiers future scheme such appointments instruction to such a scheme, the financial inserted requiring should the Civil for such to be laid before both Houses before any be an to the Public Service, to prepare a scheme are made.

the Commissioners, to devise a scale appropriate It might in and other circumstances framing to of Ireland.

lie sd for SCHEDULE III.

PROPOSALS FOR A COMPROMISE.


Customs a: The attached draft is an attempt to reconcile three almost propositions irreconcilable.

1.

That Ireland autonomy.

which may appear These propositions should have complete to be are: — fiscal 2.

That there should be Free Trade between Great Britain and Ireland.

I!.

That should have power Ireland tect her petition by British industries from unfair Industries.
to pro- com- The draft is only a tentative the principles should any degree of acceptance, be revised by experts both tration and in the drafting of Bills.

underlying suggestion, and it meet with it would require to in Customs Adminis- 1.

The Irish Parliament provisions of this Act, have full power customs Ireland duties on all articles from outside.

shall, subject to the to impose into imported 2.


(1) The Irish Parliament shall not impose the produce, duties on articles or manufacture customs growth of Great Britain, and the British Parliament shall on growth or manu- articles save as hereinafter facture of Ireland, provided.
impose the produce, customs duties not impose customs equivalent (2) If the Irish Parliament imposes excise duties on any articles of Irish pro- duce, growth or manufacture, it may also duties articles produce, on such growth or manufacture; and if the British excise duties on any articles of British pro- duce, growth or manufacture, it may also impose equivalent customs duties produce, of on Irish growth or manufacture.
of British Parliament imposes articles such (3) There shall be established a Board to be called the Joint Customs Board, consisting of two members appointed and two members by the Treasury, appointed by the Irish Treasury, and a Chairman appointed by His Majesty.
(4) If the Irish Government the to unfair in Ireland importation of any article of State aid, or other cause competition Ireland into of articles which be of opinion the producers, growers or manu- are that facturers being subjected through from Great Britain industrial by reason are being combination the actual sold at a price cost ot manufacture, and sale with of a fair com- mercial profit; or if the British Gov- ernment etc., mutatis Irish the British Govern- Government case may ment, be, may as require to Board Joint Customs the investigate than distribution mutandis); or the addition .
(etc., then the matter.

less the the (5) The all report Customs shall convenient to in fact Joint required, with shall whether tition rates of customs be sufficient exists, and Board, investigate on being so the matter and dispatch, both Governments such unfair if so.

what compe- rate or duty or duties would to counteract it.
(6) On the issue of such a report, the the case may be, it shall lawful Irish or British be for Parliament; to as impose customs said articles of Brit i sb or Irish growth, produce or manufacture to the extent found by the Joint Customs Board to be sufficient to counteract the unfair competition.
duties the on (7) Any customs duties of the imposed in accord- ance with fore- the provisions going paragraph shall be immediately discontinued Joint Customs the Board the unfair that shall competition which gave rise to their imposition if report has ceased.

(H SCHEDULE IV.

LETTER FROM CHAIRMAN TO THE MEMBERS OF THE SUB-COMMITTEE OF NINE.
My Lords and Gentlemen, Irish Convention, 6th November, Dublin, 1917. opinion meeting restriction upon as the present At yesterday's of your Sub-Com- to have been reached issue the Convention to decide before to propose powers a deadlock appeared the chief practical Irish Parliament and Excise other for Ireland.

that, in in Ireland, such mittee upon has self-government on the one hand, Nationalist less any taxing of an reservation of Customs Parliament.
the On Unionist members of the Sub-Committee that, even Nationalist sented would not proposal which would ment Great Britain.

felt that (between be a mere waste should Committee this point it can frame a system of It was pointed out, state of it would be use- the the to the British the Ulster stated the repre- to any Irish Parlia- and to be issue and fiscal union) would the Grand for a moment the to set up a tariff wall between of be so informed.
1 appealed to On both sides, negotiation further fiscal autonomy if they were majority, it seemed this vital in agreement with those whom Ireland enable listen Sub-Com- hand, time, upon they that and the a final conclusion of putting the answers to them that the matter that the and until I had in writing to which would in dispute had opposite con- to by a genuine wish of the country.
I had the question two objects to be threshed in as that aspects, impression business the largely to fact of "Irish Nationalists, influenced the it was its dis- senti- to fiscal that, by as a means at home and of commercial appeals, perhaps of political of industrial expan- even more strongly, autonomy.
Ulster no they and, while for of purely the would be undesirable, are, practical At to postpone mittee had an opportunity certain questions, at any rate show been debated fully clusions promote In had been dictated interests the best this course, I wished is idle this; ignore symbol had It advocated its purely great majority to avoid been know convinced that, any disturbance taking view—-first, out in impossible cussion ment.
the autonomy, development sion abroad, as a Unionists doubt, reasons, arrangements fiscal union as something more political Again, while believe sarily interests, Ulster Unionists policy would, down South, be actuated And even Question, ered on their merits, fear that, with parliament incapable highly As that Great Britain's governed predominantly of understanding industrialised long as in the present by British community.

union.
union.

the best wishes if, after the settlement such matters were sure present fiscal policy rather fiscal they uphold than a symbol of the Nationalists is neces- Irish fear that an Irish fiscal state of public opinion by anti-British motives.
of the Irish to be consid- the business men of Ulster than in the world, a agricultural would be of a the problems underrate for a moment, of the practical before us are debated with vations, we are dealing with false not, importance They must weigh on both involved.

they can and should be distinguished business the be discussed upon we must also assume—and friends so that their merits.

considerations questions reser- I do business these mental issues.
the considerations sides; but the can To this end I am sure our Ulster in its will agree to assume — that, sentimental practical from latter the It settlement responsibility.

no compromise The questions But is unable issues, if, unhappily, any to reach agree- responsibility economic policy, the Brish Parliament will be guided by common sense.

I submit herewith are based on this assumption.


in thus addressing you is My second purpose to the critical stage at to call your attention which w'e have arrived in the proceedings of the ConventiDn, and to tell you frankly what I, as Chairman, consider its proper course in the dis- charge of its awful is quite true that if, after the further consideration 1 am about to ask has been given to the main issue iii dispute, seems possible, we may abandon all hope of an agreed for"a united Ireland.
group in the Convention vital ment on certain for Ireland will rest on of framing a constitution lead, the main body.

that at any issues of the controversy will be narrowed the and defined.

While we should not have settled it far Irish Question, we should have made the more amenable it.

to settlement may that I devoutly bus so nearly the crux which yet be found I plead brought us to a deadlock.
What the moment is that we should go steadily with our work of exploring problem come as possible must for a broad and equitable Question of the tor at ahead political if we cannot as many of us of the to the judgment, of our countrymen than we found compromise to one good result—namely, proposals Irish and in all its aspects.

Its deliberations to a complete the Then, hope upon to submit agreement, endeavour settlement should world.

rate, some Irish the Yours faithfully, HOB AGE PLUNKETT.

Rnclostjreb.
Rnclostjreb.

Questions Questions Note on possible for Ulster for Nationalist Compromises.

Representatives.

Representatives.

Questions for Ulster Üia'iiESENT.vnvEs.

1.

Are you afraid taxes impose might machinery of your that on industries?
an the Irish Parliament raw material or (i.e., that neither country If so, would your fear be met by a provision there should be free trade between England I hat and Ireland should impose customs duties on goods produced in the other without imposing an equivalent Alternatively, would yon be satisfied by a prohibition of import duties in Ireland on specific raw materials or machinery?

excise)?

2.

Are you afraid of your exports being exposed if England became in England to customs duties protectionist?
free trade between Would this objection be met by provisions for the two countries as above?

3.

Are you, generally speaking, afraid of fric- to and England, leading Ireland tion between tariff wars?

Would the above safeguard satisfy you?

4.

Are you afraid that Ireland's tariff arrange- ments with foreign countries might cause friction and England?

between Ireland upon foreign --euh ins- ,, Ireland obviate this countries, Irish industries might suffer?
Income involved in tariff wars with foreign the ^■^B lie unfairly taxed, by inc.e i, .,,,!.!

i., provide bounties for southern :.. Arc win afraid thai Ulster industries might Ism.I bring able tn mnke her own temis with tax or otherwise, foreign oountrie»)?

Would you be satisfied bj a Umitation of permissible expenditure on bounties or ss limi- Would this fear be met by power to grant tssiisss, ,,f industries on which bounties ..sin be bounties and to impose special duties on goods given or ..I to Is,. "
dumped "?

indus- p Al.,, ¡.Vssisl tries?

that under ¡iscal onion [re- land woidd ba unable to encourage new ¡ndiis- tries or protect industries from "dumping"?

proved both?

6.

Do you fear that sin Irish Government representing agricultural interests would not adequately appreciate industrial and commercial , ' .

.. .
.. .

, , , H so, how far would your fears be met by Parliamentary us On- loins ot si Pro- vineisd v..to on legislation or si strong non-elected Upper House, or special representation in the sLower Hoik,-.?

safeguards Possible Arrangements fob Compromise.

ovc-r rlirecl taxes.

1. frelond ,.1X1.

;mi, lvt;ll„ to Issue control ,.

; ,„,„[ „, ¡„ ¡,„|im.t ||H,ç1, pl.11(.(,t.

(|s -• Ditto, but [reland to receive the proceeds.

t(1 3 Ditt0i ., specified ,.t.ceiv,.

u.l¡htnd b.


]t Questions to» Nationalist Représentatives '':'" "f tllf' l'n,<'ri',u- 1.

Are \,,ii afraid that unless Ireland has tisoal nutonomy the Irish Governmenl will not be aisle I,, adjust its controllable tax-revenue to its 4.

Anv of the above, plus the power to [re- |;U|(| ,n (,1;|||t |,onnties.

expenditure?

'™d t.s protect industries against dumping.


•"'- Any of the above, plus the power to [re- to have control over Excise not taxation Would it satisfy vou if [reland had control only or |l>l over both (al over direct direct and indirect taxation subject to the ¡imi- or te) tation over ils,.

rates of Customs duties bul test over the Belec- »l'<"-]'- subjected to them, tion of the articles subjected to them?

as to free trade but <• Ireland o) ,'1" ' «stoms q [relmd ,,,.,.,• Customs.
with England, or s.li over Customs, to have si,,ties, Excise not the 8 rivlund to have control over Excise and 2, Ase you sifisii.l thai it' under a fiscal Customs subject to tree írsele between England union, England became protectionist, sonic of tile duties ,,.

a slutv on steel)' '-'.'

',, ' , .'

".V'"" - , .. - , .

, " • might injure ■ : .

",'?

Irish interests ihinosed "T"\ ' went so for as 8.

Are you afraid to secure mutual free if.

under trade.'

complet,.


that liscsil union, l'liiglsmd liccaiue piotcetirsnist and and Ireland except to excisable articles.

„ , ,.

., , above arrangements Pariiamentaiv safeguards <"»>■ '"»-■<■ »» »deipinte to ensure force combined that in fiscal ,.,,.,.,,.,, „„ v,.,„ ,,,.„„„ ,.

„ ., House, ,„,„.¡„,.¡.,1 special representation us I,,,-.,,.s- with "»"°"*'«* po!ieVi t'ppcr House, right the but not to select to vary rate« the SCHEDULE V. Explanatorï Note.

Tli,.
Tli,.

answers to the questions llepresentatives \ationalist lour members of the Sub-Committee, was general agreement addressed to were discussed liv and there the re- with regard to voting power between Unionists and National- ists" (page 07, col. 2, lines 21-2) did not precisely indicate the character of the suggestion made, as it would be it was realised in discussion that plies.

- in,p.,-m¡,i.

i.a.

.. definite political character It «as suggested tliat as an addendum to 111.
- gens'ral Nationalist answers containing these vis w about Customs, sinn.y posais made trade unwise use al the powers claimed, to safeguard be given should lister interests which might be imperilled ot the various rnionists Excise, and Taxation, a pro- and by an The member who ¡aided this summary had mil an opportunity oí showing whal Its.
had written to Isis osillosigiics, and it has since been pointed nt tile expression nut to liitn that " equality in the proportions ..I the Senate, but it was believed to indi- men with a the in Ireland were to state to safeguards of substantial who would the minority therefore, safeguard relating It is necessary, for which to members l.e pos-cil,!,- to guarantee cated the presence stsiks' in lise country interests concerned.
that «ere only a summary, the discussion slsuilst all the closing paragraphs and must be taken with suggest,.,I ¡n the of which nn at the suli-committce, the members have full notes, limitations and extensions Question out ..I taxes fl).

Yes, we consider it essential giving opportunities twecll two taxing anil.lies.

imposed Dual control over Irish (lnl answers to the four questions put to us Irclund should be sdsle to finance government be her own Parliament.
taxation «.d prevent the fulfilment of this under t,lls hMd are lls '»»"«•s: — condition.

It would, therefore, hamper efficient To (a) the answer is No.

for and economic governmenl hi Ireland, besides lor dangerous friction be- I,i,polis,1 „ltd hi-!,.

thai the «'hole of her and collect,,!

ing reasons: -Pirecl lexs's (less exi the follow- lili and though Evi n less to imposition in sufficient cost of 12!

millions.

in peace) now bring a sum not nearly Irish government, Customs now yield eleven millions.
thai to amounting Excise iup the proceeds of these duties were Ireland, and their hands, between ¿'etnained would over be- to be which will cease than 7.1 millions, cover the to oxer duties posing credited collection 65 and 70 per cent, to outside be subject the cause even varied taxation in direct imposed Imperial general tariff.

the yield of Cus- toms and Excise, while a British Labour Minis- try, taxation of taxation, might to raise her income-tax.

raising money mainly incomes, from without.
I'm- example, might in Imperial of Irish control, remainder would be gravely by the high indirect taxes would have tax-revenue while power curtailed, and Ireland the direct automatically to conform tn changes An raise lowering compel the part of these proceeds would have If on the other hand the cost position and Excise were paid direct Treasury siderable be paid back as a subsidy to meet balance Britain Imperial subsidies, financial and gravely own "legislative the amounts tion would according the presumably as a contribution expenditure.
whatever device which would and available necessarily Ireland's financial to British time being.

fetter form would into be worse.

the proceeds of Customs the Imperial A con- to in order the by Great towards of Irish Government, being retained by to Ireland Ireland We regard ' a svstem of a bad it might take,'as sap power responsibility to direct her policy.
Moreover, for subsidy and contribu- vary above fiscal and social policy for indicated as certain It might (somewhat be proposed on the Irish lines of the Act of 1914) to reserve ser- vices for Imperial control, and to finance these services out of the proceeds of Imperial Customs and Excise We regard such Be- sides rela- tions, re- sponsibility the for part of its own government.

a course «till it would levied as altogether indefensible.

financial complicating in Ireland.


Ireland further duties away from take froni Lastly, and Excise reservation of Ireland, trade influenced the of Customs the effect on the revenue to remove can be the control of the apart and expenditure the Imperial Government would they from could not agree we what power, in the interests of compromise we might though to agree (See¡ under (b) ).

so far as duties, wholly We of and social policv, these by Irish Parliament.

to such a drastic indispensable, concession.


reasonable restriction consider some an That is that in regard a compromise lines suggested.

Ireland and Great Britain To (b) the answer might be possible on the is, an arrangement might he made for Free Trade be- in goods of tween home produce or manufacture, the excep- tion to Excise.

There should also (see under question 3) be fi or provision dumping.
termi- nable and renewable after a fixed period, and to earlier should if Great Britain to guard against unfair competition lie subject changed The arrangement with subject to articles trade policy.

revision should her be is No.

Control over Ex- To (a cise would in Customs Regu- lation?, freely, and a power of con- tro| over Excise bumpered by the restriction the answer involve if exercised alterations that it would toms would mean ,,-,,!
even ove, Excise, involve no interference with Cus- there was no real con- little or he of and would that id) T., the mwwor is No.

An liament would desire to have the pov.

the articles which able, subject, of course, plied in the answer arrangement to the restrictions (b) should to.

to make duti- im- the it proposed to question Irish Par- be agreed suggested there Question is that Great economic than (2).

would Yes.

consult Our fear her own on using greater Ireland.


and of which steel in interests might by past history.

raw materials like in Great Britain, Ireland This would hamper interests would be neglected.

Duties steel, but is a user, all Britain interests, which are overwhelmingly -nus.

and that Irish is justified This fear be might imposed which can be produced in Ireland, not not a manufacturer.
again, industries to the agricultural the Pro- industrial tests of food— the war— protests might the Tariff Reformers a few years ago, which was to admit food articles.

terests, ture, as we should be buying ket, where prices would be artificially and Belling competition.

on manufactured against Irish is agricul- of which in a protected mar- sustained, in Great Britain.
taxation any after by interests against to become to a policy to place duties tell in a market where louder accepted That wotdd labour likely be sacrificed there was the most important free, lead free and Or, in- by With regard answer, as tion, tlie is possible a green icol limitation:- and pne : to the second part of the ques- that the before, is lines with indicated on these Question (3).

Yes.
Yes.

It is quite possible tariff wars with foreign countries might under in the denial to us of neces- in high or, more probably, fish, linens, cottons, that a fiscal union result raw materials, sary tariffs against Irish or other articles.

liquors, To the second part of the question is " yes," terms with be greatly if Ireland wee aide foreign countries lessened.

the answer to make her own the danger would remove tobacco, interests industry sugar-beet.
or, perhaps, restrict alcohol, 6 much to the agricultural for us to become more self-support- in the production As it Question (4).

Yes, ,f we had control oí ions on the for example.

could of industrial capable of great development Excise we manufacture an Ireland, or we could encourage of Irish is necessary ing in the matter of food, and, therefore, to larger area, it becomes of im- cultivate to provide portance that, all the crops in rotation shall be profitable.
It would be intolerable if the Irish Government, to make Excise regulations were unable facili- the manufacture of industrial alcohol.

tating This is simply by way of illustration.
Under the present even those which might be deemed proper tu Inland because of our production of raw materials such as hides, wool, shoe, tion with which or woollen indus- have no natural advantages over in tries, but the artificial advantage of priority large establishment en- abling them to undersell for a while at a loss to themselves severely leather, in Great Britain,' in order to knock out Irish rivalry, etc.. long-established in competi- boot, new Irish industries, reserves, industries system capital Irish suffer and industry, to question fear would be met in anj inherent to The power bounties (see answer duties though we feel bound of framing tilm.nl provisions latter mi the to some extent I lovernment by the to grant and by the add 1 (b) ) to impose special to be dumped, the difficulty ful- the proper to point out to ensure object.
on goods which proved We wish to add the following supplementary remarks :_ We regard Ireland entity.

nomic Governments as a Nation, an economic the eco- to foster exist peoples.

Self-govern- interests of ■ not i \isi where their idea regarded could accept the as capable as those nominally en- trusted with affairs of government have not con- trol of fiscal and economic policy.
No Nation that while with self-respect its citizens we^re regarded of creating incompetent they were wealth the manner of that regulate another should wealth and levying the power should country being placed collecting taxed taxes, in the position of a person of infirm mind whose finality by affairs could be looked not oven a temporary trustees.

for in such an arrangement, be arranged, have the taxation that satisfaction.
in which regulated country anil No are of to the to contem- these methods as for a rich.

is also, continuing in our opinion, wrong It same income the of the millionaire.

It plate poor country as it would be to have iiiconn-tax on the Britain greater Ireland which can be borne easily even by the classes, hardships same on income the average wealth than of taxation for a is just as wrong five shillings as In Great is so much taxation, labouring on the greatest in Ireland.
per head inflict s labourer the of indirect classes that the in We also wish to point out that without an what goods, revenue.

it would be of all for us including Custom House im- true the in re- like of taxes, imported to discover was It has been admitted Irish collection inspection possible Irish figures spect tea accurate knowledge of our true tax revenue would be suspicions land appear m the Treasury there the part of Ire- in sums which did not attributed of income-tax largely on guess work.
Without i( was mulcted and on dutiable to Ireland the past the that always articles Papers.

based that are on in Lastly, that without it may be said and Excise, of regulating representation less bargaining in respect of the raw materials an Irish control over Customs and the power trade policy with held in reserve Great Britain, Ireland would have no real bar- in ease of Great Britain gaining power adopting Irish policy.
a protective at Westminster would give power than the right in the hands of an Irish Govern- ment to continue a policy of free imports, if it so desired, re- or, on the other quired hand, interests against foreign trade combinations.

that should be as little used as possible, such powers in reserve.

It would, but they be the worst possible as it would policy, the worst possible milifarv to con- policy, never advance'or chango, and bo pre- template pare for no eventualities.
We say Ibis just us much in the interest of Ulster as In.

the interest, of the Southern for industry to protect in Ireland, its business should be held It is desirable farmers.

business retreat, 67 as this few that roped Irish about and Il is Ulster realise against obstacles interests imagine are in their and in addition views in the natural Ireland and even more Irish pro- unwise the safe- industrialists than of Irish the best protection policy.
We trade that agree be placed between farmers, of Ulster are so important to those airead} are their products rapidly easier concerned are perishable in value by delay to ¡is possible its greatest than Ulster free trade, by nature, at ports.

We should customer.

industrialists, tor lessen much changing farmers, ducers changes industries guards, may reasonably be demanded.

guard Unionists interests Sou» that m case Ulster or Unionist sit together tween Unionists a thing can be arranged This, place.
ample that no policy would be adopted which security interest of Ulster was not in harmony with the industry.
that suggested, The main safe- and Ulster other to their economic in both both Houses would and an equality of voting power be- so far as such representation - I Pari Q nt would be agreed to, so in theory, would,take is urged, would and Nationalists, power equal <>t ili-puie interests political proposed questions affecting Special give give u\er to it is other ways of meeting In conclusion, we desire to draw attention to of fears the some desire to fears we most earnestly Unionists, allay by any means which do not conflict with principles which we consider the it necessary (II.
The' to maintain.

inconvenience fund: i mental from to nominated an with postal, fiscal autonomy might a small Commission of members Parliaments, a arrange agreement- subject and with agreement, by either terms foreign force mission the by Royal this of in or colonial the provision Parliament, \oith-East allowed in dreaded he obviated composed in equal by the British independent.
and Irish of by means numbers and Chairman, union, Irish to or trade, between Great Britain the approval Ireland, of both Parliaments, and customs that, in the event of dis- the Commission, or disapproval the matter the most-favoured-natiou on either should side be put to a in On any Com- for representation government Proclamation.

kind special could be secured.

(2).

Fi might be possible to arrange Committee to changes and relating Irish Parliamentary questions Excise ponderating sentatives Ulster.
should be referred, influence the great of could be given industrial for an to which all and a pre- repre- in in Customs in which to interests to all other in As an alternative suggestions for the put the larger of the forward in the interests this as affecting considered.
the special last resort'be least desirable this Memorandum, compromise a veto exercised by an Ulster Grand Committee on matters province might We regard form of compromise, and would prefer that Ulster would accept representation in both Houses of Parliament of safe- By this method Irish guarding interests would be considered all together, as is The present most at friction tunately between Ulster and of Ireland would not be perpetuated.
would also prevent practical und constitutional difficulties of o grave nature, lemand ti ai i .

if other pro- [risli legislation unfor- rest A veto as the interests.

right method existing desirable.

their and the of complexities.

1 2 OS SCHEDULE VI.

I.

'KPLIKS l'A mu.

W. M. MURPHY TO QUESTIONS fob NATIONALIST REPRESENTA- TIVES SUBMITTED BY SIR HORACE PLI'SKET.

tirn NOVEMBER, 1917. you Question-.

(1).

Are fiscal tint.mc he its expenditure?


aisle f.s ssslnisl that alraal unless has the Irish Government will not to sis eoutisillable Iax-l'evelllie Ireland Would il ssslisl, as ta) over direct direct and indirect tation lull Excise of Customs the articles subjected to free nol duties had control Ireland you taxation if only or (b) over both to the limi- or (c) over rates taxation subject trade with England, fusion,s, or nil over the selection the of bul nul over to them?

Answer.

111.
Answer.

111.

In "i.ler it would t.iswer be ncccssurv this question intelli- he from that Revenue to adjust to be sure what is I take fiscal full it appears autonomy, to me that the context as distinct it means partial fiscal gelitlv meant by "Controllable Tax Revenue."

it from autonomy and on that assumption it would impossible to Ex- if one set of Taxes were voted by an penditure Irish Parlia.nt set by a British Parliament.
Irish Parliament only raising responsible the Taxes which was ex- Irish Government them pending, away the from in almost incentive as great a de- gree us Irish Taxes were the levied by the British Parliament and handed over partially the it would hike and to economy by an Irish Government.
to the second part, of this question, to be expended the whole of and another In answer Moreover, it would leave the for if no fiscal svstem would satisfy me that does not plenary powers over all give an Irish Parliament Irish Taxes, and and Excise, all other including Customs sources of Irish Revenue.

Question.

(2).

Are j.ifraid Englsiiisl imp,is...I might union, shities a duty on steel)?
becsuue that if, mi,1er a fiscal some ot the protectionist Irish injure inten Would von be satisfied il fiscal union only went as far as to secure mutual free trade?

Answer.

(2).

I sun quite Protectionist interests where British interests, sure if England lbs.I no regard would be had becaiiic to Irish slid not harmonise with they and I do not look upon any thai than With regard as anv protection Ireland could claim in a at seven hundred members in this respect.
representation House 'if more Westminster No British I bälget was ever directly affected h.v anything thai could be done by Irish Members.

to the second paragraph of this I wuukl be willing hi consider question, a Com- mercial Trcssfv between Cleat Britain and Ire- la,,,1 sanier Home II.,lc with full fiscal authority.

b,r and ii.
b,r and ii.

',' the interchange of both countries, with provision manufactures though I would prefer that against dumping, Ibis two Parliaments a (tor the Irish parliament was estab- lished.

'flaust v should be arranged the produce between the of Knglunil Question.

:,i \s you afraid that if.

under complete fiscal uniuti.

and became became involved in tariff wars with foreign countries, industries might Would land being foreign countries)?
Irish the same remedy meet to make this fear (Ire- terms with protectionist her own suffer'.1 able (31.

Yes.

for reply to the second part of ■>.

of Question lo second reply part question see Question.

(I|.

Are vos, afraid Ireland would be unable us- protect dustrics intlustries that fiscal under to encourage from new "dumping" union in- ',' W.sisl,I this Eear be met by power and impose duties bounties proveí t,i in be " dumped special "?

to grant on goo,Is 111.

Will.t fiscal free,Ion.


I feel industries or My to protect tears could do little or nothing Ireland ne«- ■ ,Is.n,ping."

in u large degree met special anil impose to be " dumped " which would be incidental measure on h.v pnwer duties industries this head would on gnsids autonomy.

fiscal provesl lull of to gisuit bounties sure that to encourage from be hi tes o Dear Sir Horace, ,-< lil.lil.
I.E VII 14tii November, 1917. anil Excise to the In rcplc to the communication which you have , addressed to us we tnusl point out that the difference «hieb has brought the proceedings of " nenrh to a deadlock " the Sub-Co.it.

and not of detail.

, on points rests of lisos,] police and s of Ireland are in- ; that , ni principle We bold thai in matters lib- the interests es-.mic from separable there can be no Gust.s tion of taxation between lbs.

I«.s countries, which arc.


and iniisl ,.tinue to be, so inti- mately associated.

You submit those of Croat Britain, barrira or differentia view " in the the b,Ils,wing and , ( stab' of Nationalist presen!

useless to propose any such restriction taxing powers of on Irish Parliament as the I it.

would he s on the opinion reservation British Parliament."

oi Customs of l.v an of either the direct apprehensions set out our to us.

however, be an ungrateful lo undertake.


of control powers taxation might be put use to or in- Irish Par- task which we lias been made To which direcl «null liament do not propose be clear to attained escape for National Debt and the war or from in the future beyond such of national defence as an Irish Parliament t.tribution voluntan should From time 1" lime think (it to make.
that one object would is and from all am liability share the cost of acquisition, healing their that In in It Yon sa,, rigldh Nationalists that fiscal " tss Use great majority autonomy, advocated of as ihe strongly expansion is sis <si industrial development ut home, and abroad, even political symbol tlie that appeals of i',., go further and say null's' autonomy."

iluctriiis- „i Irish adoption tissai autonomy will, under si Colonial Form <»i government, s,.|s;ir;|t,.
Ihltslill insist Sum r'einers desire leasl tss His.

same to n.h goal si- the under u republic.

;|1| ssiil' interests <sl tisis itsilils (¡leal ll'tllll in.s The demand is, absolutely separat,''!
Ills' iiissiTioii ssf an ¡n [act, Ural Ireland from Cleat Utitain shall be anil, is SS Jllllllallll'll K.S.cllL',|llL'l' Irish industrial and con ills- development furthered lit., ol the greal has, efuse of our in full commun industrial ilich Isr di' t., interests tal essential, and that nis'ieial and ,¡111 be best resources its with th.

1,. ssith »hi peu .1 IT Vshi s'lsprs's-s it,,, hope ami ' exploring mav vet be found, tin.

work of „ill, its sispist.


; in all problem to slsj so without making what we si fundamental si,.11I,I he t., leave us open to the a clear regard some compromise thai thai we should go on Irish political that the \\Y sousider statement as of condition reproach of ml.'

th, th,.

Ill, depend put iisrs portant, ill thus nil small aid; ami, realise that accommodations the spiestis si is far ssislel the question indeed, vital.
Yours faithfully, (Signed) HUGH T. BAEEIB, Chairman Ulster Represent (Signed) LONDONDERRY, s,.

11,s SCHEDULE VI11.

PROPOSALS FOB A COMPROMISE.

the ntrol st of Hie Irish sour,', s, It 1. should sufficient 1 administers.

is essential hase under thi its c to cover the e 2.

It should, therefore, principle, subject sill heads I-, such control.

be recognises res,-nu.

ol ln-h 3.

At the sans,, that s, contribution Imperial Services the interests luctance time it should from Ireland be 1 to tl tor.
not pri is called s,i Great Britain, re- ts, accept an obligation of honour would of sue!

self-respect to the dignitv hut because .lerogatorv frelaml.

-1.

Ans to l„.

The to the Imperial ■ '.

.'

, I.,- left should he made under ils.'

authorils I'arliamnit H Hoard ,11 which Ireland shoidd sentation with Great lint,,in, gnised nation ost of isiitalsle to Ireland ■¡Is in Board.
.,1 the share ol Customs should ill,I ; the collection oí a Joint liase equal repre- an,I th,- sleterini- attri- also rest ssith tins lies.. share should 11.

The whole of this he carried s the credit of Ireland, ami the " contribution .

Imperial purposes " (which should he speci- esl in the Constitution as a fixed inn, or as an amount variable on a sliding sealel soul,I he the 12.

If the Customs revenue attributable Act, either iirst charge upon it.

oil ,1 slot, th,.

sphet The to fixed th.


s a definite charge against a particular head ol balam,e of that amount should he „ritten o« a. this is to make ,,s thl, - contribution the amount to Imperial Services," 5, Th,' easiest way tss achieve than and 7.

The ilesirahihts' of maiutiiiiiiug Irelaml (.real Britain and being admitted, between sears being ma.le a Iirst charge on the Customs nue bv the arrangement above suggested, mils a' small concession of Customs Duties t" for the duration arrangement.
ils.'

imposition the British Government of the proposed Free Trade Fro,' Trasle for ., term ol Services reve- it is Imperial t" leave 8.

The (net that this compromise would re- hese the anxiety felt by Ulster is a sir,,,,;, argu- ment m its favour.

9.

The increasing prospeol of 1 of the British Isles is an addili, ,1,'l-alisati, •rabie 13.

If the Customs perial contribution, disposal of the Irish Government.

„ill base the balance advantages 14.


This arrangement : — .guises revenue exceeds the Im- should be at the th,' foil.„sing 111 prim'¡pie Ireland's claim to fiscal autonom,.

(2).

It meets, in practice, the difficulties felt by Ulster.

,0 1 Ii leaves frelaml to meet sufficient lull ,.tro] over revenues the eost.

of her services.

ill.

It removes His' vexed question of an from the sphere of Imperial contribution ■untr, (5).

It makes easy should tl,, s Svstcin, the futuru.

to a Federal probable in 1"».


It would be easy to add to this arrange- ment pixnisions tor tin.

: prevention of dumping, as between Great Britain and Ireland, on the lines already suggested.

A draft indicating the kind of provisions which would he necessary is set ont below.

Draft akti-dümping Provisions.

111.

There shall be established a Board to be culled tlie Joint Customs Board, consisting oí two members appointed by the Treasury, and a Chairman appointed by His Majesty.
through the producers, the importation (2).
If the Irish Government be of opinion growers, or manufacturers in Ireland are being subjected to into from Great Britain of articles which by or than and the addition of a fair commercial that "Í any article unfair competition Ireland aid, reason of State other cause are being sold at a price the actual cost of manufacture, sale with profit; or if the British Government etc., mutatis mutandis) (etc., Government, combination, less distribution, or the British Government, Irish as the industrial .... the : then 70 ease may be, may require the Joint Customs Board to investigate the matter.
shall on being (3).

The Joint Customs investigate required, convenient Governments rate or rates petition Custom Duty or puties would be sufficient counteract Board, su the matter with all to both com- of to and shall in fact if so.

what despatch, whether and report such unfair exists, it.

(4).
(4).

On the for the issue of such a report, Irish, or British Parliament, Duties it shall be as on produce, found by the Joint lawful the ease may to said articles ut" British or [rish growth, or manulactnrc Customs the unfair Board competition.

to the extent to counteract sufficient Customs to be impost' be, (5).

Any Customs Duties imposed the provisions of the shall be ance with graph Joint Cu-tiims competition has ceasod.
immediately Board shall which gave rise discontinued in accord- foregoing para- if the the unfair imposition that their report to Final Uepobt op the ¡Sub-Committee to the Grand Committee ov the Ibish Convention.

by Lord Londonderry.


In our Interim Report dated November 15th, that we had still to consider a proposal we stated to be submitted Since the date of that Beport we have held two meet- ings, on November for- mer date we made to find a compromise thai, we were continued tatives Lord Londonderry's Interim Report, us.

before but we regret the represen- and to in our laid In view of "Ulster any scheme, referred 20th and 21st.
On the a further the to submit proposals, not disagreement, on the fiscal question, not been therefore, successfid.

preferred attempt have, not We making Provisional II.

desire certain to supplement explanatory Conclusions set that Beport amendments forth in Schedule by in the The note to Head '6, sub-head (3) (a) and (b) should read : — " These were sideration, committee pending on Defence."

deferred for con- the Report of the Sub- further H-Jiid "Irish Irelanil."
9 ; Constitution read Peers" of Senate.

"Peers resident For in Head 10; Constitution last The of Com- mons.

:— read "This might be done, and was reserved for further of House should consideration/' sentence the question lu connection with Contribution, consideration, Sub-Committee of the principle of such a contribution, reserving of an Imperial further the of their recognition though their views as to method and amount.
which was for the Nationalist members desire to record reserved In conclusion, it is our duty to report that, of the continued financial consequence views on the tu lind a basis for agreement has not proved suc- cessful.

divergence our question, endeavour in of our 21st November, 1917.

Ti APPENDIX V. REPORT OF SUB-COMMITTEE ON KLECTOBAL SYSTEMS AND ABEAS.

(I. C. No.

18.)

The Electoral1 Systems Sub-Committee was " to consider appointed Systems, Areas and Franchises."
the question of electoral The members of the Archbishop the Committee of Dublin Grace Earl mí Granard, Sir William Alderman McCarron, Messrs. R. Waugh, P. J. O'Neill, (Chairman], Uoulding, and E. E. Lysaght.

Bart., were, His the T. J. Harbison, Nine meetings were held, in which the general the as well as adequate representa- subject was carefully question tion of how for minority to provide interests.
considered Systems were examined, Representation with the the Belgian Sys- Repre- leading Electoral The Proportional including Single Transferable Vote, and tem with plural voting plus Proportional The Secretary sentation.

Society liepresentntion stration election ing details of a contested tem.
of also conducted to illustrate election in order the Proportional a demon- the workr this sys- under eon 11 position respect with a Lower Tie: the to House, various elements which should find representa- at con- tion in siderable of an Upper to numbers, was discussed assemblies, ami also these and length.
The question of providing by grouping so as to carefully was representation for towns of 2,000 popu- urban special and form examined, this subject upon a is upwards interests and urban lation constituencies table attached bearing ol statistics herewith.

The Sub-Committee their as more taken can If agreement b\ other methods that understood to be sions.

vention tion, or nomination thex are quite tically.
ready desire recommendations than provisional lie reached of distribution it to be clearly are not conclu- in the Con- of elec- to either House, them sympathe- of members to consider FINDINGS.

The Sub-Committee agreed that to minority should representation proportion They smallness counties would minority.

not give of also agreed in an Irish Parliament its of relative electorate.
in excess rest the the of that having the Cn ion ist electorate the Proportional representation Representation to the unionist receive numerical regard to the in many system the Unionist The Sub-Committee were not prepared to say that ties the P.elgian system would meet the necessi- of the case as existing ill Ireland.

The suggestion of nominating représentatives of the minority proved.

The Nomination terms Hill were approved residence pers.

and as to interest was in general to be by the terms ap- Crown.
of the People of the Representation as to the qualifying the disqualification period of of pau- It was that hood should be extended the view of a majority the proposals of this Bill and womanhood suffrage to Ireland.
In so far as Trade Unions are concerned, of the members to man- and in regard are desirable the of the Sub-Committee Labour representatives that organisations should it would not be desirable lie empowered the House their in to action would representatives as such of view sec- to break up Trade Unions into political were of opinion that Labour to elect Commons, tend tions.
direct The general view of the Committee was not he direct representation in the Lower House, with in any and the that boroughs that for In- the excep- redis- Irish of Belfast, Londonderry, should be retained.
redistribution and * Limerick, Tor should the remain- the be on as far as may be reasonably should there stitutions tion of Universities, scheme tribution Cork, Dublin, Waterford ing constituencies basis of population practicable, the composition of an the view was expressed As to Commons bership should be H>7.

tit whom lo" should he in elected the interests The distri- bution Irish House that the Unionist minority.
and 40 nominated the Crown of those the mem- follows.— to be as elected by of of of Belfast ... ... Borough Université National Elected Nominalen Dublin Cork ... Derry ...

Limerick Waterford of Dublin Belfast ... ... .

1 University ... ... ' ... .


40 14 11 4 2 2 ... ... ... ... ... ... 2 1 1 Ll.l 107 members to the qualifications:— are subject the Labour 'J hese views That committee representation, ferred a smaller bers and a number of elected for other of the Sub- did not approve of University and that the Chairman pre- of nominated number interests or institutions.
The question of enlarging the area of Dublin Police, and reduce by three mem- left to the Grand borough so as to include'the Metropolitan area and give Dublin 14 membeis the County Dublin bers was after Committee.

représentât ¡ves consideration representation mem- THE SENATE, It was suggested sist of 00 members lows :- that the Senate and be composed should con- fol- as L.C.

Chinch.

of Ireland.

4 Bishops, 2 Bishops, Church I representative, 1 Lord Chancellor.

I.
I.

'i Representative 15 nominated 3 to be elected for Connaught.

Peers.

b> the Crown.

Presbyterian Cuurch.

6 6 „ ,, ,-, 8 Munster, Leinster.

Ulster.

60 by popula the Cppt of such Labour repi William ( ioulding, ; that commercial in the l'pper House.

interests Dimdalk.

Drogheda, Wexford, Clo nt it led to one respective populati, Ten n addition shot JOHN' DUBLIN, of Sub-Committee.
Tbc Committee were divide« as to whether for bodies such as the Incorpor there should be : the questio NOTE ON URBAN REPRESENTATION.

By E. Lysaght.

ch special intere frank!

principle letter The i his i-vy much ir iural proposed the lower quota to by Bord Sub-Committee for urban Snuthbonau of divisions the objection: That fixing th; it is open undemocratic.
to the opinion of the Committee to provide in the it was not for the specially inclusion l'pper House, as the judi- would probably be fully represented In necessary of Law Lords cial element through other sections.

Section 12, sub-section 3, of the Government Vet.

1914, as follows, was approved:— of [reland " Any Beer whether dom, Great Britain, Ireland either House. "
shall be qualified England, of the United, King- or of Scotland, to he a member Aga grouping of small towns to the semi-rural, objection and not be successfully that Bord the urban St ait h borough representation that carried as we is open, the that such out.

"s proposal smaller grouping \Ve have would in an Irish seen, are have towns could seen increase Parliament.
to do this, is possible It viz., to recognise means, operation in [reland of separate for the larger towns even though considerably below the quota decided upon.

the principle hitherto representation they ¡ire v.-rv I think, by a simpler in spEo[\[, REPRESENTATION OF URBAN I would propose that this be continued, and Newry, Galway, and Kilkenny now have such separate representation.

IXTKIIKNTS.

The question of givim l"'l ulali.


Lord Soutlibnroiigli, following bem opinion was expressed:— further th considered, the that that urban On the hvpothesis it would appear representing that equal weight should be given the quota l'or rural con- the quota stituencies should be 35.000, and for urban consti- tuencies 20,000, the num- ber of members interests might be about 62, while rural members would be about 91.
On the simpler hypothesis on the fco other hand the urban and rural vote, and for the number each constituency of urban members 42, while there would be about 111 rural members.

Thus, can see, after de- bo far as the Rub-Committee oui tailed Lord South bort aigh's in- in a ■[■ease the urban House the of Ulster urban from 20 to 20. should be 30,000, be about of 157 members.
representation of carrying would be bv about If would the province effect the suggestion 21 increase examination, representation would that to in to all in addition extended towns sentation be extended ants and over, franchised pose ngreed to disfra down, Bs&llymei Clonmel, Traies habitants.

to retan of similar If repre- size.

to towns of 10,000 inhabit- ten new boroughs would be en- the three I would pro- sills.

to luit whieh it In ¡se.

Liaburn, Lurgan, Porta- Diindiilk, aligo l>rnRl,«lii.
sir,, sill over \Y,.\fss|.,l, in,.i iii- Witli ■ would embers.

Is'slllt ¡S Olllv that arrived SCI al ir Is-ss.»1 (»gestion.

Ill tils' ;ll!

;u-ln-tl Si- lie dill,.

(si,,, members sind population per countj rather than per division, because the size of the divisions ,!,•■ pends on whether the principle ,.l Proportional |li|ir,s,.,itsili,i,i !„• adopted 1 lisiv,, ot pot, "ivcll PROPOSED CONSTITUENCIES.

Urban.

Population.
Population 29,01111 20,000 FíOT-RES TO NEAREST 1,000. llli.tK.Hj 40,000 11,963 11.727 12.S53 12,388 11,381 400.000 10, .-,14 12,501 13.128 11,53] Belfast Deny Newry Port a down Lurgan Lisburn Bally mena Antrim Armagh Cavan Donegal Down Deny Fermanagh Monaghan Dublin (including S. Co. Dublin) .. City City County.. Kilkenny Drogheda Dunilalk Wexford Dublin Wexford County Kilkenny < ¡ounl y Kildare King's County Longford Louth .Meat h Carlo w Westnieath Queen'« \\ ioklow 23.000 25,000 40.000 100,000 27,464 10.300 10,209 ...
Limerick Citv Cork City W'sl t ,-r f. ,r, 1 Cits' Trail',' donmel Clare i 'nek County Kerry Limerick County Tipperary Wateifiin! '

'"mils ... Population.

1(18.000 »0.000 90,000 168,000 202,000 99,000 02.000 72,1.

Average Population per Member.

28,000 30.000 30,000 28,111111 29,1X10 33,000 31,.


36,000 (or 3 Mem- bers 24,000 per Member 29,000 Ulster 20,(1011 32,000 30,000 32,000 28,000 29,000 74 PROPOSED CONSTITUENCIES—cokíñ Populati( Populate Fl(.t;HE-S TO NEAREST 1.0(10.

Populati* Average Population per Member.


hinnuii 102.00(1 03,000 70.000 (¡3.000 32.000 32.000 31.000 35 000 32,000 Connaught 20 ... Calway City Sligo City ( lalway County Mayo Koscommon Siigo County ..

MEMORANDUM ON URBAN REPRESEN- TATION.

CONNAUGHT.

9 towns Populatic (As STJBMITTEO TO THE ELECTORAL SYSTEMS SUB- COMMITTEE.)

Urban 013,007 No Accepting the official définition including line of that as " towns with a population wards " and border " civic areas," Londonderry, Waterford.
position :—- figure including Dublin, The following a few towns of civic areas of 2,000 and up- just on the 11 !

there are in Ireland the boroughs of Belfast, and Limerick, Cork, the figures summarise ULSTER.

3 boroughs Populatioi 2-14,318 304,Ht 12 Connaught io,ort i :,r,i,;;,>;i therefore, in scheine W urban that On the view it would seem, a separate and Leinster constituencies thirty-seven Ulster and non-urban But if is feasible.
the boroughs of Belfast be ex- and Londonderry cluded, the grand total for the remaining thirty- seven 1 Ister towns is only 185,340.

In addition eighteen of Ulster's towns are in the counties of Antrim and Down, and joint their population is 98,033, or considerably more than half the total repre- for the urban interests of Antrim and sentation Down is possible by a system of grouping.
It is in County Armagh to the extent also practicable that Portadown in the same and Lnrgan being constituency be easily grouped.

for Ulster contiguous Separate towns.

could and It should be pointed out smaller in- stances rural, or towns rather non-industrial in their interests, being .1I3 market towns, and not manufacturing in many strictly that the are centres.
the there of urbaD population In the province of Leinster is a similar in one or two concentration In areas and diffusion in the rest of the province.

townships of Kings- the county of Dublin town, Pembroke, and Rathmines for 84,353 out of a total of 101,963.

These towns as suburbs of Dublin may be regarded than as distinctive civic entities.
Drogheda and re- Dundalk l.outli, mote from each other, could be grouped similarly to Fortadown and Lurgan, but many other towns in Leinster would require special grouping.

though somewhat in csiunty account rather The figures for the respective provinces and herewith.

are attached counties IRISH STATISTICS.

(B. Extracted from Census of 1911. following ,sf Ireland The lation spectively .
ligures indicate by counties the urban and provinces, ¡insu- re- The sstheial classification líamele, wards towns cluded towns having 2,out) population In sine or two standard lias been just have been for the purposes of close comparison short of this adopted.

installes.s in- he- of "Civic Areas," and up- Ulster Leinster ... Munster ... Connaught Total Population.
1,581,696 1,162,044 1,035,495 610,984 96S.629 612,894 613,067 549,150 262,709 49,681 Grand Totals 4,390,219 1.474,607 !.915.612 Official Estimate 4,390,219 1,470,595 Î.9I9.624 STATISTICS Ob' BOROUGHS.

ULSTEE BOROUGHS.

-MUXSTLR BOROUGHS.

Belfast ... Londonderry ... ... ... ... ... 386,947 ... 40.780 Urnen tk Waterford 427.727 76,673 38,518 27,464 LEDíSTEf, BOROLGHS Tola!

Borough STATISTICS OK URBAN AREAS.

PROVINCE OF ULSTER.

PROVINCE OF ULSTER Uo.

Antrim.


Lisburn Ballvmena La rue Carrickfergus Antrim Ballyelare Ballymoney I'nitrush Co. Down.

Newry Newtownards Downpatrick Banbridge Holywood Donaghadee Comber Dromore Warrenpoint Co. Armagh.

Armagh hurgan Posrtadown Co. MOHAGHAN.

Mbnaghan Clones Carrickntacioss CO. DONEGAL.

Bundoran Letterkenny Buncrana Ballyshannon .

Go.

Londonderry.

Coloraine Limavady Co Tyrone.


Cookstown Dungannon Omagh 12.3.SS 11,381 8,036 4,608 1.979 3,369 3,100 2,107 47,268 11,963 9,587 3,199 5.1(11 7.776 4,035 2.213 2,589 2.364 1,938 50,765 I2.s)3:l 11,727 2,888 4.272 2.401 2.064 2,116 2,194 1,848 2,170 -.

:i2s Total of Ulster Towns as above Total for Ulster Boroughs Grand Total ... ...

PROVINCE OF LEINSTER.

Killiney Kingstown Pembroke Rathminis Balhriggini CO, KlLDARE.
At by Kildarc Naas Newbridge CO. KlLILENNY Kilkenny Callan Kino's County.

Tullaniorc Edenderry 3,685 3,8 4,836 5,107 17,458 Co. Longford Longford 9,080 3,536 2.721 17.219 29,294 37,840 2.273 101.963 2.639 3,842 3,400 13,416 4,047 4,926 2.20S 3,760 3,760 .STATISTICS OF Bollol nils — ■■„,!,,■,„■!.

PROVINCE OF LEINSTER—continued.

PROVINCE OF Ml'.NNTIOli—™,,/,„,„,t.

Co. I.OUTH.

Drogheda Dundalk ... .

... ... 1-, 13, Co. Clare.

Isuisi'S Kilrush ... ... ... ... ... ... 5, 3, Qusbn's County.
Maryborough Portarlington .

.

Mountiiiellis!, Co. Westmeath.

Athlone .Unilinear Co. Wicklow.

Bray Wicklow Arklow (estimât,') Co. Wbxfoed.

Wexford Enniscorthy Fs.sss.

New C'0.

TlPPERARY.

Nenagh Thurles Tippe rary Clonniel Carrick-on-t" Cashel Co. Waterford.

Duiigarvan 4.776 4..",4!l 6,648 lll.2(l!l 2,813 34,227 Total for Munster Towns ... Total for Munster Boroughs ... 1 ... 1 Grand Total ... ... 2 PROVINCE OF CONNAUGHT.
3.270 2,012 2,341 7.472 5.539 7,601 3.288 7.000 11,531 5,495 5.547 22.573 5,169 13,255 2,980 2.388 4.602 3.6U8 3,674 Total oí Leinster Towns .

244.348 Co. Galway.

Total of Feinster Boroughs Grand Total PROVINCE OF MUNSTER.

Co. Cork.

.

('l.

)imkiltv Queenstown Fermoy Kinsale Maoroom Mallow Middleton .

.

Mitchelstoun sSkibbereen Youghsil Bandon lïantry Co. Ki:i:[;y. Tralee killanity l.i.stossel Ballinasloe Galway Tuam Loughrea Nil ... Co. Mayo.

Ballina t lastlebar Westport Co. RoSCOMsslON.


Boyle t'sl.

Si,lots.

Sligo Grand Total for To Grand Total of Boroughs sis above of Ireland 2.901 8.209 0,863 4,020 2,717 4,452 3,182 2.208 3.021 5.648 3,122 3.159 10.300 5,796 3,409 78 RELIGIOUS PROFESSION« OF IRELAND, 1911.

Borough Carlow Dublin .


Dublin County Kildarc Kilkenny King's Longford l.'sutll Meath ... Westnicath Wexford Wicklow PROVINCE OF LEINSTER ,317=8915 ,372,=70-99 .370=8313 ,684=8207 193 94-97 ,178=9005 .297=91-96 ,303=91-58 .660=93-19 480=88-74 .779=91 32 .-113=92.31 .999=79 06 3,935 = 10-85 50.022=29- 1 51.432 = 16-87 11.943=17-93 3.769= 5- 3 5,654= 9-95 3,523= 8- 4 5,362= 8-42 4,431= 6-81 6,149=11-26 5.207= 8-68 7,860= 7-69 12,712=20-94 PROVINCE OF CONNAUGHT.
Galway Leitrim Roscominon Sligo 177,920=97-64 58.159=91-47 188,069=97-86 91.731=9763 72,125=91-24 4,304 - 2-36 5,423= 8-53 4,108= 2-14 2,225= 2-37 6,920= 8-76 Glare Cork County Cork County Boroug Kerry Limerick Borough Limerick County Tippe,ary Watesfonl Waterford ... Borough Antrim Armagh Belfast Cavan Borough .

Dow-n Fermanagh Londonderry Londonderry Korougl Monaghan Tyrone PROVINCE OF MÜNSTER ¡02 300=98-14 2X8.455 = 91-45 67,814=88-44 105:122=97-26 34.865=9082 loi.

.
.

"i02=97-08 144,156=94-57 ,54,060=95-68 25,331 =92 23 PROVINCE OF ULSTER.

1,751=20-50 I 526 U 33 1.243=24 10 1.271=81-40 1,021=78-93 1,485=31-56 1,740=56-18 1.478=41-54 .

'.923 56-21 1,363 74-68 1,015=55-39 1,932= 1-86 26.986= 8-55 8,859 = 11-56 4,369= 2-74 3,653= 9-48 3,049= 2-92 8,277= 5-43 2,442= 4-32 2,133= 7-77 154,113=79-60 65.765 =55-67 293,704=75-90 16,902=18-54 35,516=21- 7 139.818=68-44 27.090=4382 .•.8.367=58-46 17,857=43-79 18,092=25-32 63,650=44-61 ELECTOEAL SYSTEMS SUB-COMMITTEE ■heme.
t' ■ carry this ont by Supplehental The Grand Committee of the Irish Convention to Grand Committee.

Report having Systems considered Committee the report of the Elect r-i 1 sent the following further to the latter body for c and report.

The Grand Committee that urban and industrial more quested the Sub-Committee proportionate accepted interests representation, the principle receive re- and on Electoral Sys- should than the grouping constituencies, to be aboul 20,000 below 3,000 only ■ uencies character.
the; if of small the quota towns for these constituencies Towns with a population in Buch consti- industrial ,i distinctly included to be ar- ■ i The Electoral Systems Sub-Committee carefully Grand Committee considered submits this Reference having from the the following group- leetoral units : — Co. Antrim.

Iisburn Carrickfergus .

Co. Armagh.

Lurgan Co. Down.


Newry Dromore Banbridge Bessbrook Newtownards Down pat rick Counties Armaoh Armagh Cookstown Omagh Strabane PROVINCE OF ULSTER, PROVINCE OF LEINSTER- 25.032 11,381 7,785 19,166 Wieklow Arklow (estimate) Co. Ws Wexford New Ross Enniscorthy .

MEATH COUNTIES Xavan Mullingar Athlone Tullamora Counties Carlow Carlow Kilkenny PROVINCE OF MUNSTER.

Co. TlPPERARY.

Clonmel Tipperary Carrick-on-S Co. Kerry.

Tralee Killarney IJstowel PROVINCE OF LEINSTER.

Co. Cork.

Co. Louth.


Drogfaeda Dundalk Mallow Queens town Ferino v XoughaJ 7,691 3,288 7,000 11,531 5,547 5,495 3.934 5,539 7,472 4.920 10.209 6,645 5,235 10.300 5,796 3,409 4,452 8,209 6,863 5,648 25,172 80 GROUPING OF TOWNS—continued.

PROVINCE OF CONNAUGHT.

TOTALS AS ABOVE :— Co. Galway.

Galway Ballinaaloe ... ... ... ... ... ...

Counties Mayo and Sligo.


Ballina Castlebar Westport ... Sligo ... ... ..." ... ... ... ... 11,164 ... ... ... ... 13,255 5.169 18,424 4,662 3,698 3,674 23,198 Ulster Munster ... ... ... ... ■■■ 6 ... connaught ... ... ... Belfast ... ... ... Dublin Cork Limerick ... ... ... ... ... ... .

Londonderry Waterford.

... ... 1 (¡rand Total 3 2 16 14 11 4 2 2 50 Their are not be entitled aggregate they would in- sub- there- foui; to the grand fifty- of Dublin, the to three more mem- list.
the above it for Ireland The cluded stantially on fore of County Dublin townships in the above exceeds HO,000, and list.

20,000 the quota itives, which would make the borough in representatives total of urban four.

included If borough would be entitled to bers than The grand are credited total Tin- Sub-i ommittee would probably borough of Dublin.

be opposition It will be observed that ings the figure of population 20,000 quota.
than 3,000 population that they arc specially two are In in in that case would be fifty-three.

understands that to inclusion there in the in some of the group- the is slightly below towns less of on the ground instances included industrial.

is in- new The attention of the Grand Committee to would suggested the Parliamen- the changes which involve the in they at present belong.
and Drogheda, Lout h vited constituencies The tary areas to which grouping of Dundalk for example, reduce would 63,665 to and North Armagh would be reduced 38,036, by area touched would ob- Every over atïVcted by the change viously be substantially of rural and re-adjustment of the boundaries one-half.

County from of workable stances.


towns in conform riiiiiililc in dicated ford McOullagh joined with the to of bring considering Parliamentary divisions would clearly have to be in a considerable number of cases in order made The fixing of to prevent and such boundaries also is outside to us.

the Terms of .Reference submitted expert knowledge, and demands injustice.
anomaly The grouping suggested above the most can devise the Committee, that they The population leaving is, in the opinion convenient and circum- the in above grouped of 257,093 towns of 2,000 and upwards, which do not in- the Terms of Reference, of the a population is 352,350, or are suitably grouped.

the Terms in this Supplemental and Mr. H. B. Armstrong, the Sub-Committee recommendations and as above.
of Reference Report, in- Sir Craw- D.L., are associated The Sub-Committee their invaluable for to are under Secretary, the greatest Mr. Thomas services which be has obligations Holes, rendered the to them throughout.

(Signed), JOHN DUBLIN", Chairman of Committee.

APPENDIX VI.

PROVISIONAL STATEMENT SHOWING THE CONCLUSIONS REACHED BY THE GRAND COMMITTEE UP TO DECEMBER L3th, AND QUESTIONS REMAINING FOR DECISION (I. C. No.

20.}
20.}

Note.—So far as possible, Provisions reserv Consideration are indicated by Italics.

1.

The Irish Irish Parlia- to consist of the King, an Irish Senate, and Parliament.

The ment an Irish House of Commons.

of Irish the to have The to laws for the peace, order, and good govern- and to the general power the exclusions Parliament.

Ireland, subject 2.

Powers Irish Parliament make ment, of restrictions in 3 and 4 below.

specified 3.

Exclusions from Power ment.


make The Irish Parliament laws on the following matters of Irish Parlia- to have no power :— N.B.

A .sub-section annul any existing or disability Certain Act of 1829. restrictions should legal penalty, be framed disadvantage to on account still of religious remain under belief.

the (2) Safeguard (if desired) for Trinity College, to section 42 similar and Queen's University of Act.

(3) Money bills Viceregal message.

to be Act section 10 (2).


founded only on to (4) Privileges, qualifications, bers of Irish Parliament Act.

(sect.

12).

etc.. of mem- as in to be limited (1) Crown sect.

2 (I) ).

and succession (See 1914 Act (2) conduct .Making of peace and war (including as neutrals).

(Act sect.

2 (2) ).

(3) The Army und Navy.

Consideration Police matters Sub-Committee of all Naval, Military deferred on Defence.

pending report and of (4) Treaties extradition).

and foreign relations Seo Act sect.

2 (4).


(including Ireland to have power similar respect of commercial to the treaties.

italicized words represent The in the Scheme of inserted The decision Raphoe.

upon dent on the financial question.

the provision the Bishop of them is depen- (5) Dignities and titles of honour.

(Act sect.

2 (5) ).


(6) Any necessary and military control of harbours purposes, for naval certain powers as regards lighthouses, buoys, beacons, cables, wireless terminals to be settled with reference of the Military and Naval contingencies.

of His Majesty (See Act sect.

2 (9) ).

to the requirements forces and in (7) Coinage: legal lender : or any eh the .standard sect.

2 (10) ).

of weights o (S) Trade marks, designs, merchant!ist marks, copyright, or patent right*.

(Act sect.

2 (11) ).


The (¡rand Committee have been unable two is at an agreement reservations, and the the matte on to arrive preceding referred to the Convention (5) Rights of existing Irish Officers to be safeguarded.

(Act sects.

32-7).

Seel l< >n 9 the substitution 5.

Constitutional Amendments.

to the House of Commons (4) of the Act to apply of " ten years " for " threo with to be the Senate years."
the subject ten years, provided Bill is agreed to by two-thirds of the total number of members of both Houses sitting constitution after to alteration together.

The of 6.

Executive in Ireland power but exercisable through the advice of an Irish Authority.

to continue The vested executive in the King, on in the Lord Lieutenant Executive Committee ■ set out in Act.

(sect.

4).

7.

Dissolution Irish Parliament dissolved as set out in Act.

{sect.

6).

to be summoned, of Irish Parliament.


prorogued, The and to Bills.

8.

Assent to be given or withheld as set out in Act (sect.

7) with the substitution "for " postponement."

of " reservation Royal assent 9.

Constitution of the Senate.

(1) Lord Chancellor (2) Four Archbishops ... ... 1 or Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church ... 4 (3) Two Archbishops Church (4) A Representative of Ireland ... ... 2 of the General or Bishops of the Assembly ... ... ... 1 (5) The Lord JlVyorsof Dublin.
Belfas*.

and Cork ... ... ... 3 (0) Peers resident, in Ireland, elected (7) Nominated resident in Ireland by Peers by Lord Lieutenant ... 15 :— Irish Privy Councillors of at least two years' standing Representatives of learned ... 8 insti- ... tutions ... ... ... 3 Other persons (8) Representatives Industry ... (9) Representatives each Province ... of Commerce and ... of Labour, ... one for ... 15 ... 4 ... 4 -!.
Restriction on Power oe Irish Parlia- 60 ment on Matters within its competence (1) Prohibition of laws interfering with in the House of Con mona an addition shall be religious equality.

(Act sect.

3).

made to the numbers ol the Senate.

On the disa pp< u initiated element 10.

Constitution of House of Commons.

The elected members to number about 159.

The University of Dublin, the University of Belfast, to return 2 and members.

to form the National University of each University the constituency.
The graduates each Special industrial representation and grouping smaller quota, on the Electoral Systems Sub-Committee.

to urban to be given areas by means of a system of to them a by the towns, and applying lines recommended smaller The principle of proportional representation with transferable vote to be observed wherever a (Act three or more members.

returns a single constituency sect.

9 (2) ).


The majority of the Grand Committee do favour not for consideration this provision, but it is reserved by the Convention.

by It is intended that Iht Unionists should be guaran- teed forty per cent, of the membership of the House of Commons.

of adding members nominated represent to Southern Unionist* The nomination of additional members to represent Ulster interests This, however, must be reconsidered is not favoured.
if the forty per cent, proportion cannot be secured by the proposed The principle the Lord Lieutenant is approved.

treatment of urban areas.

special Any nominated or in part after not element less than The Houso of Commons is to disappear ten years.

to continue in whole for five 15.

The general question of the financial powers i< reserved for further of the Irish Parliament consideration.

16.

Imperial Contribution.

The principle of such a contribution is approved.


The method and amount are reserved for further considération.

Purchase.

17.

Land the Sub- Committee on Land Purchase accepted in principle and reserved for consideration in detail.

Report of 18.

Judicial Power.

The following provisions of the Government of Ireland Act to be adopted :— (a) Safeguarding position of existing Irish Judges (see.

32).

(b) Leaving appointment to the removal from both Houses (sec.

27).
27).

(c) Transferring Irish Government of future Judge?

and their ■ to the Crown on address of Parliament appeals the from the House of Judicial Committee, (sec.

Judges Irish by to Lords strengthened 28).

(d) Extending (e) Provision to this Court.

right of appeal (Sec.

28 (4) and sec.

30 (1-2) ).

as to reference of questions of validity to Judicial Committee (sec sec.

29).

years unless previously dissolved.

The Lord Chancellor is not to be a political officer.

11.

Money Bills.
11.

Money Bills.

Money Dills to originate in the House of Commons, only amended by the Senate and not (see Act sect.

10).

to be The Senate to have power to bring about a joint sitting over money bills in the same session of Parliament.

is, however, The Senate to hove power to suggest amendments, the House of Commons may accept or reject which as it pleases.

The Grand Committee has not yet considered the words in italics.

between Houses.

12.


Disagreements between Dis- to be solved agreements in Act sect.

11, with by joint sittings fail to pass a Money the proviso that Bill such joint sitting shall be held in the same session of Parliament.

the as set out if the Senate two Houses 13.

Representation sentation continue.

right of deliberating Repre- in Parliament of the United Kingdom to the representatives at Westminster.

Any Irish to have and voting on all matters.


The question whether the Irish members of the are lo be directly elected, or to ¡louse of Commons, is reserved Imperial Parliament be elected by the Irish for consideration by the Convention.

An Irish Exchequer 14.

Finance.

Fund and Auditor-General solidated Controller set out-in Act (section to Itc established and to be appointed and Con- Irish an as 14 (1) and section 21).
it should be declared If necessary, all taxes at present leviable in [reland should continue imtil the Irish Parlia- to be levied and collected ment otherwise The necessary decides.

that adjustments Ireland of revenue as between transition during the Oivat Britain period should be made.

anil The Lord Lieutenant 19.

Lord Lieutenant.

to be a political otlicer.

He shall hold office not for 6 years, aaxd neither he nor the Lords Justices shall be subject (as in Act section 31).
His salary shall be sufficient to throw the post open to men of moderate means.

disqualification religious to any 20.

Civil Service.

to be appointed tions for admission A Civil Service Commission examina- competitive to regulate to the public service.

The practice of the English Civil Service Com- mission to be followed as far as possible.
The Commission and interests; as Chairman, ¡lOssible addition Unionist independent Chairman Irish life and would publie represent The Commission Unionist to ¡in(¡are ment a scheme for appointments and no appointments is approved.

to consist of the Lord Chancellor two permanent members, with a of two members to safeguard or (in the alternative) of an position in one of whom of outstanding Iwo colleagues, interests.
and to the public lay before Parlia- service, the scheme to be made before The Commission I" lake ' mets of Inland salary.

into account in suggesting the financial scales of The provisions further consideration, italicized arc reserved for 21.

Deferring Taking oykk certain Irish Arrangent uts to bi math Servickî-î.

to defer Irish Government, over the services Purchase, Age Pensions.

Labour changes, Post Office Trustee Savings Banks, Friendly Societies.
if they so desire, lo Loud relating Insurance, National to permit the taking Old /■„>- and Discussed, but not definitely decided by the Committee.

In so far as Land Purchase should bo made to the report of the Sub-Committee.

S3 APPENDIX VII.

MEMORANDUM BY SOUTHERN UNIONISTS.

FISCAL AUTONOMY.

(I.

C No.

21.)


The Chairman of the Convention having stated that in lus opinion a deadlock appeared to have been reachod in reference to the question whether Ireland it is I should add something on behalf necessary of those whom I represent in order to make clear our attitude on this question.
should have complete fiscal control, that While we have not changed our view that the preservation of the Union of Great Britain and Ireland under the Imperial Parliament is still the best policy for both countries, we entered the Con- vention at the urgent request of H.M. Government with the desire to consider what concession could be made to Nationalist, opinion in regard to a Con- stitution, with safety to the Empire, security for the minority, and if possible, the participation in Irish Government which could of all sections not be obtained under the Act of 1914. the this special interests of Ulster Parliament.
to circumscribe We have endeavoured loyally to co-operate with to this end, and the minority in both Houses of the Assuming to be for safe- can be our colleagues in the Convention we recognise- their de.sire to provide with a fair representation proposed secured, and that adequate arrangements guarding agreed upon, we have no desire too closely the powers of the new Irish Bodies in regard administration.
But to internal the discussions which have arisen on the question of Fiscal Autonomy open a new vista of Irish claims, which was wholly unexpected by a Parliament us.

We to that of Great Britain, genuinely subordinate on and Great Britain for defence and for Foreign Policy, to woidd safeguard her interests, and to represent her in regard Ireland, which must be dependent not of an internal representatives right to taxation The Nationalist Ireland a similar to that enjoyed by the Dominions.
bility of divergence questions and the necessity of Ireland being free to play her own hand for treaties The proba- from Great Britain on fiscal in connection with in these matters to Westminster to have been representatives contemplated have claimed suggested.

asserted.

character.


to us seems .send have that It is noteworthy that while independent powers for Ireland in regard to finance and administration and Great Britain's are claimed, is assumed, undertake admission Ireland Britain her defence of responsibility has incurred, in this respect.
to there is no clear liabilities which incur, to Great for the and will willingness that the future prosperity and can only be secured by in the British Par- is the We are convinced security of the country the representation liament, subject of treaty Indeed, we believe this connection to be \ital the interests of the Empire.

and by leaving all taxation which in the hands of that Parliament.
of Ireland in This contention having of direct internal is not inconsistent with Ireland the desired control of her own affairs, and with ample means taxation, to pay her way, but if Ireland is still to remain an integral part of the British Empire, she must be prepared to that which Great Britain is making.

• to make some sacrifice commensurate Ireland, notwithstanding the present War Taxation, is apparently increasing in prosperity If she is assured of her by leaps and bounds.
present expenditure, and the power of increasing revenue for development, she cannot but contribute reasonably to the immense deficit which Great Britain has to face.
If Great Britain were willing to accept as a con- tribution to the War debt and to the Army and Navy the product of the Customs, which now amount to £6,600,000 and may probably be in- creased, Ireland (omitting Excess Profits) would still retain some £12,000,000 tax revenue, with £1,600,000 from Postal and non-tax revenue, against £12,500,000 of expenditure.
There would surplus which may be in- then be a considerable creased when the Super-tax on Irish Revenue now is levied locally, as it must be in paid in London the future, if a Parliament On the most favourable computation for Ireland, the debt charges for which her taxable capacity, or one-twenty- whether reckoned at one-twentieth fifth of Great Britain, should render her liable, would to tl 2,000,000 annually apart from her now amount sha re of Defence and War Pensions which would be at have the by such received exceptionally (beat Britain will have a a settlement, deficit while retaining profits.
of say, £150.000,000 all existing Ireland would treatment to meet, except excess least £6,000,000 more.

is established.

seeing that per annum generous taxation on the and to demand from Great Britain, To clothe Ireland with the right of making treaties an equal voice with Great Britain on question* which a.re common to the whole Empire, and which may shortly be the subject of the Federation, would set up a Government link of the Crown, Colonial model with only separate though at a few miles distance.
to avoid continual to secure Free Trade between Great Britain Ireland.

The of both countries make a common interests defence a necessity, the power now claimed for 4,000,000 of people on an equality with 44,000,000 while she cannot pay her proper share of defence, is quite inadmissible.
that it would be necessary and we believe to negotiate It has been admitted for Ireland friction that and then are as follows :— Our proposals We reserve to Great Britain the Sovereign power of the King, full authority for the Navy, Army, and Imperial Services, and for the levying of Customs, and this responsibility involves the representatives at continued presence of Irish Westminster, although in diminished numbers.

the question of excise calls for We think The full amount realised by special treatment.
Customs should be retained by Great Britain as an Imperial contribution.

that L2 84 internal to concede We are ready, if the Irish Parliament be con- stituted as proposed with fair representation of the minority and other effective safeguards which are in our view essential, to it control legislation, of judicature, lines we believe that all legitimate National aspirations will he satisfied.

the Imperial treme demands.

thus to by conceding more ex- administration, On these taxes, and police.
We are not prepared connection jeopardise transfer Irish to to an to an Irish Parliament co-operating responsibility In Executive for its internal to the extreme standpoint, contiguity social and political having of Ireland affairs, we have gone as we believe limit of safety the Imperial regard from to to Great Britain the geogra phica I and her in To do this, conditions.
response to the appeal of H.M. Government under the special circumstances of the time, we have made sacrifice of principles very dear to us in the hope that by mutual agreement as Irishmen we may heal long standing differences.
to We believe the proposals outlined above, which of self-govern men I to Ireland, give wide powers preserve those only the British Government which are necessary for the unity and security of the United Kingdom, and which would be reserved to the Central Government under any system of Federation which may unite the Empire in the future.

MIDLETON.

26/A November, 1917.

PROPOSALS BY SOUTHERN UNIONISTS AS TO JOINT REVENUE BOARD.
by the Customs proposals made duties will be imposed Under Unionists, the authority of the Parliament of the United Kingdom the of A substantial the Southern under and Excise duties under amount of the Customs duties on in Ireland Irish Parliament.

the authority consumed is collected and for establishing it is desirable to frame true some the revenue two Exchequers what the by Ireland is after ultimately articles at British ports, machinery produced are separated.
the Customs to be This is the moro necessary as the receipts Imperial to meet are only contribution the Commission and Excess Profits duties assigned the war, and until by Lord MacDonnell has reported what the future should be.

Meantime any contribution revenue will be made up deficit if necessary.
from Customs Lxcise to regulate of Ireland Irish receipts separate it necessary in Ireland traffic The proposed in other proposed regime during the articles the between revenue two countries the and prevent smuggling the least possible inconvenience to in o as will make excisable to protect while causing legitimate trade.

fulfilling of seem convenient method indicated would The most the two purposes the lines creation by of the the Act of 1914, consisting of two British and two Irish by His Majesty.
of a Joint Revenue Board on the contemplated with a Chairman representatives Exchequer appointed to be Board Joint The function the usefulness be :— should described of the proposed Hoard.. above would not exhaust Its duties 1.

To determine the true Customs and Ireland for the purpose of traffic.

to set up appropriate machinery records in the form of actual 2.
To regulate exportation, importation country the mutual the payment and the of excisable on on one into the other ; and to provide for the two of drawback of duty from interchange between levying articles information of illicit the traffic.

countries prevent spirits be exported revenue authorities drawback was claimed, of Customs duty might to England, would (For example, necessary to if Irish the Engli h be notified when the charging so that follow automatically).

3.
3.

To determine and and partly in England rights of England any questions which might arise, in the case of direel taxation, as to the Ireland to respective the income when or tax on property levy or income was resident owner of such property partly property double a final decision which would to the Court unnecessary, payer by the respective claims.
of Irish revenue Mo to pay the Joint Board should give reference the tax- brought their increase from tins and to proceedings should be liable from revenue is anticipated A considerable to determine in Ireland.

or income tax, and authorities liability relieve rentier 4.

The Board would duty of advising the on cases of " dumping Irish industries.
also be charged with the respective Governments " designed to damage The Board would collection in an advisory not be directly of revenue con- cerned with but the would Set partly and partly in a judicial capacity, and would determine tl accounl which might arise all questions the between o.

To consider proportions two countries.


relative the taxation and direct of revenue lin- percentage of in- and in Ireland, to total in two consecutive from Customs in Ireland the similar in Great Britain by IS per cent, tax revenue years direct if and Excise exceeds percentage to report Should the the same Irish Parliament to the Irish Parliament.
thereupon resolve that any Customs duties on articles of general consumption to the Irish population, shall so re- port and such report shall be a ground for the equitable of such duties.

readjustment the Board to the British Parliament, act oppressively APPENDIX VIII.

STATEMENT MADE BY.

TILE CHAIRMAN TO THE CONVENTION AT THE BEQUEST OF THE GBAND COMMITTEE.
referred the Convention By a resolution passed at Cork on the 25th the and to pre- to the Convention September various schemes which had been submitted discussed, and instructed us, if possible, pare a scheme which would meet with the views and difficulties expressed course of the debates.
by the different for submission speakers to us during the the Convention the completion We had hoped that it might be possible to at an earlier date, and Unfortu- in completing summon report nately we have not yet succeeded it.

We have, however, made considerable pro- gress, and we think that we have reached a point an ac- at which we should give count of our deliberations.

the Convention of our task.


to enable instructions task entrusted to git in private to us on September We held our first meeting to find a basis for agreement to appoint a Sub-Committee to us.

On October 15th we decided for the purpose of 27th and the then decided to adjourn until October 11th in preparatory work order the necessary On October to be carried out by the Secretariat.
of 11th we decided nine members with to endeavour report there were several sideration of Nine was en- f.ikeii while tin; Sub-Committee this considera- .

■ : i... - ¡ I ni its deliberations, be carried on by- tion could most conveniently groups consisting of members of the Grand Com- the addition of certain other mem- mittee with bers of the Convention.
These groups were sub- setpiently constituted with the important of winch might, conveniently and to that the con- into three Sub-Committees terms of reference:— questions following and that be under- question portant found possible the financial powers Parliament.

upon which agreement was not was that of to an Irish in the Sub-Committee to be entrusted for We submit the consideration (I. C. No.
20)* showing of the Con- vention a statement the position which we have reached up to the present to emphasise on the whole reference.

We desire the fact already provisional general the in every case our a on still divides us.
question which being ultimately are dependent conclusions agreement important indicated reached upon that by and desired control proposals to accept the complete representatives Irish Parliament sub- to over all these proposals that The Sub-Committee the Bishop considered of Baphoe, which gave complete The Unionist the fiscal should be main- should con- and that all powers of taxation to rest, as at present, with the Parliament mitted an forms of taxation.
were unable Ulster Unionists unity of the United Kingdom tained tinue of the United Kingdom.
Much of our time and thought to find a compromise positions, lias engaged Lord Midleton on behalf of the Unionists which would collection of customs the United Kingdom this source of revenue wards features ment marked lated two extreme proposal which by the Southern imposition and of from to- The main in the docu- is being circu- duties and make the the cost of Imperial of this proposal to the Parliament the receipts Irish contribution has been occupied between in an endeavour these the most: our attention services.
are set out I. C. No.

21 which to the Convention.!

is one submitted recent: leave and (1).

To consider questions electoral to an Irish Parliament.

systems and areas of franchise and in relation (2).

To enquire into the problems presented by land purchase in Ireland.

(3).

To consider (a) what powers of local de- Irish re- ; (¿j) the be delegated consistently with defence of Imperial to an the of the Royal Irish Constabulary the Dublin Metropolitan Police.
fence might Government quirements future and We submit the systems, sideration electoral statement have, mendations.

to report the Convention their of the Sub-Committee for of our provisional and it will be seen conclusions to a large extent, accepted their from con- on the that we recom We also submit to the Convention the Sub-Committee report portant of purchase.
We have not been able report serves, but we are able agreement with consideration to state the principles the detailed the very on to give which im- land this it de- in that we are underlying it.

The Bub-( 'on u nit tee of Nine appointed on 11th held a large number of meetings October to us two reports dated November and submitted 15th and November 21st which have since been receiving our detailed consideration.

The Sub- were able committee pro- visional conclusions on a considerable number of questions.
in reaching an agreement upon all matters, and it the provisional was definitely conclusions were not to be regarded as binding " unless be reached upon s general scheme."

The most im- They did not, however, succeed to arrive at certain understood agreement ultimately should that an its deliberations, The Sub-Committee on defence has not been able to complete in the absence of information which the Admiralty a»d the War Office.
We therefore re- this questii in commend consideration should be deferred until the Sub-Committee is able is being sought to report.

from that of We are of opinion that the Convention can u■■■..■- fully consider how far it is able to concur in the provisional recorded and in the to it.

several reports which we have submitted conclusions which we have recommendations contained the VI1 APPENDIX IX.

REPORT OF SUB-COMMITTEE ON LAND PURCHASE.

(I. C. No.

25.)

(Adopted by Convention on 22nd March.

1918).


ANALYSIS OF REPORT.

Paragraph.

Page Paragraph.

Pag Payments to be made in 5 per cent, stock PROBLEMS CONNECTED WITH COMPLETED SALES (1) Collection of purchase annuities Automatic fixation of (1) annuities (2) purchase money o!

and tenanted land 1.

Purchase Annuities ... (3) Powe tenant purchasers Cases where annuity to be based on rents (1) Case of judicial rents (2) Case of non-judicial ... rents is not PROBLEMS CONNECTED WITH PENDING CASES.
PROBLEM OF FUTURE SALES Size of Problem Summary of Proposals as to future I. Tenanted Land.
Scope of automatic Position Position of landlords of tenants transfer 89-90 12 ... 13-4 ... 15-21 90-1 90 (1) In area of Congested Districts Board ... 16-8 90 passed (a) Holdings for vesting (b) Holdings retained ... 17 90 resettle- for ment ... 18 90 (2) Outside the Board's area .19-20 90-1 90-1 91 , fa) Small holdings 19 (b) Larger holdings 20 for Congested Districts Board and Estates Commissioners ... 21 ... 91 Special powers II Untenanted Land.
Position of demesnes and home farms ... ... ... 22 91 Other untenanted the Board's Other untenanted the Board's area area land within land outside ... 23 ... 24 91 91 Proposed Financial Basis of Sales 2.5-40 92-5 2.

Purchase land money of tenanted Based on purchase Payment to be made cent, ... stock Effect on landlord's annuities in 5 per Scale recom- Purchase money of untenanted land Within Board's Outside Board's area area Bonus on untenanted land Bonus should be regarded as Im- perial Expenditure.
Estimate of cost Expenditure on land re-settlement by Estates Commise Expenditure on land re-settlement by Congested Districts Board ...

Question of reservation of Con-., gested Districts Board and Estates Commissioners rights .Sporting Question of a Perpetual Reference to Secretary... rent charge SCHEDULES.

1.

Size of Problem 2.

Purchasers' Annuities 3.

Excess Stock and Bonus 4.

Finance of Future.Sales ... effect of Pro- ... posals recommended 5.
Financial ST We, appointed 1917, " to inquire Sub-Committee of the by Irish Convention, the on the prob- " held sittings referred In the course of our proceedings we have the views of REPORT OF SUB-COMMITT the Grand Committee 1st November, lems presented by land purchase thirteen to us.

had Sir Henry Doran, Board, and W. H. Stuart, Estates Commissioners, points.

of ascertaining of the Congested Districts and Mr. on certain the Kt.

Hon.
Hon.

F. S. Wrench into in Ireland the advantage the problems to examine before brought the Convention.

by the Convention to the Grand Committee On the 4th December we signed a report which and was duly presented subsequently This report was discussed on the 8th, 9th, and 10th January, 1918, and was referred back to the Sub-Committee with the re- quest certain amend- ments.
We did so on the 15th, 16th, and 23rd the January, amendments adoption of certain which we have incorporated following Report which we now have the honour of presenting that we should recommended unanimously consider and the :— in Assumption underlying deliberations.

an scheme Executive assumed Irish by land purchase, for in Ireland.

form of government re-casting 1.


We have proceeded on the assumption laid upon us was to inquire that into the prob- not under the but as part of a of framework the Accordingly, we have in that an Irish Parlia- responsible is to be set up by an Act passed by the of the United Kingdom of Great Bri- the duty lems presented existing large government our deliberations ment, with thereto, Parliament tain and Ireland, and an Irish Consolidated the present Exchequer Great Britain established.
We desire in this Report, as to the desirability of this change, but we wish to make it quite clear that our re- are based on the assumption men- commendations tioned to on any other hypothesis.

from and Consolidated Fund of an Irish Exchequer distinct Fund, to offer no opinion, to be similarly and cannot as agreed be taken Ireland, that and and are Problems to be considered.

2.

The problems we have considered may be three main heads :— grouped under I.
Those connected with land which is the subject of completed sales -under the Land Purchase Acts.

II.

Those connected with land which is the subject of pending proceedings under these Acts.

III.

Those connected with land which has ii' '1 as yet been the subject of proceed- ings under these Acts.

i The following table gives particulars of the land (I.)

already sold, (II.)

agreed to be sold, and (III.)

not made the subject of proceedings for sale up to the 31st March last:— No.

of Holdings.

Acres.


Valuation.

Money I.

Land sold 308,833 10.203,910 5,185,712 1.207,875 II.

Pending 3,302.941 • 5,768,751 3,645,278 unaffected 100,800 cases lit.

Lud £ £ 100.208.fi84 23.936,053 • 19,274,602 10,038,865 • in the way of making an estimate *The difficulties number of holdings chase Acts ¡mil their probable price Schedule I.

(sec pp.

97-8).

as yet unaffected ..if the by the Land Pur- in is fnllv explained EE ON LAND PURCHASE.

I.

Completed Sales.

3.


The problems presented to three main points, by land already sold (1) the collec- liability and in payment (2) for excess stock and bonus, and (3) exercisable the thereof, purchasers annuities tenant over Similar points will arise in the subject of pending cases and of sale in subject the of land not yet as soon as such the and land is vested recommendations are confined tion of the purchase for loss caused by default the liability the powers their holdings.
and respect of land in respect proceedings tenant purchasers; made below apply former.

to the latter as well as to the Collection of Annuities.

in II.

pp.
in II.

pp.

by on for the that (See fully falls, explained proposed in Schedule of annuities arrangements is responsible IL, paragraph (see Schedule the arrangements (See paragraphs the Government and for meeting the above mentioned the Irish Consolidated Fund of annuities of the collection part, II., paragraphs the most (see Schedule that measures for liable for any (which Irish annuities of these 40-1 and Schedule 4.
The existing arrangements annuities in payment, under for the collection loss caused of purchase by default as well as the arrange- the Home Rule Bill of ments 1893 and the Government of Ireland Act of 1914, are 98-100).

We are of opinion suggested making loss caused by non-payment at present funds), were sound for 13), but 12 and as a " re- the collection treating served " service 11, p. 99) are no longer desirable.
We are of opinion for any 'that that loss caused the non-payment should be charged with annuities.

IL, p. 98).
IL, p. 98).

We annuities purchase partment of the Irish Government, nuities should be paid into the Irish Consolidated Fund, that the full amount collectible should be Fund of Great Bri- paid over to the Consolidated tain and Ireland such Irish payment Consolidated be within the discretion of the Irish Parliament to continue the present process of making the funds of each county liable fur all loss caused by default that county II., paragraph within 10, p. 99).
We consider the cost of collec- tion of these annuities should be regarded as Im- perial expenditure as ex- plained it would to economical administration conduce and ob- viate friction if this expenditure were limited to a percentage on the amount collectible.

Excess Stock and Bonus.

on fixed dates, that should be a first charge on the recommend therefore should be collected (see Schedule that all by a de- the an- in the next paragraph.

It would, of course therefore Possibly treated Fund.
and that and that 5.

The liability for excess stock and bonus is fully described in Schedule III.

(See pp.

100-2).

It is sufficient to say here that the liability in re- spect of sales completed on or before the 31st March last now amounts to £753,00 per annum, payable until the capital charge is amortised.

Of this total, £160,000 is paid out of the vote for the Ireland Development Grant, and £593,000 out of the Land Commission Vote.
We are of opinion that this charge, like the cost of collection of purchase annuities, though incurred in respect of an Irish service, is clearly an Imperial obliga- tion.

While, therefore, we recommend that this annual sum ought to he paid out of the Irish Con- solidated Fund, we hold that Great Britain's share thereof, if not repaid to the Irish Govern- ment, should be reckoned as a payment pro tanto by Ireland of whatever contribution Ireland is to make towards Imperial expenditure.
Powers exercisable over Tenant Purchasers.

0.

Certain powers are, in most cases, at pre- sent possessed over holdings bought under the Land Purchase Acts, during the continuance of the liability for the payment of purchase annui- ties, viz : — (a) The permission of the Land Commission is for sub-division or sub-letting (see section 54 of required of such holdings Irish Land Act, 1903.)
for (b) The permission of the Land Commissiou is the mortgaging of such required holdings beyond a certain limit (ten the amount of the purchase times annuity, see section 54 (3) of Irish Land by section 2 of Act, 1003, as amended Irish Land Act, 1907).

(c) The permission of the Land Commission is for the acquisition, beyond a required certain limit, of holdings subject to land (see Irish Land Act, purchase 1909, section 32 (1) ).
annuities (d) The Land Commission may prosecute ten- for breach of regulations, ant purchasers if any, as to turbary on holdings (see section 21 of Irish Land Act, 1903), ami may also prosecute who cut certain the ornament without ment of Agriculture struction Land Act, 1909).
for or shelter of a holding) of the Depart- In- (2) of Irish the permission and Technical (necessary purchasers timber section tenant (see 32 purchasers (e) The Land Commission has power disputes and others in certain between cases to determine (see sec- tenant tion 22 of Irish Land Act, 1903), and it also possesses oí mineral in respect 13 of Irish Land Act, 1903, section 1 of Irish Land Act, 1907, and section 37 of Irish Land Act, 1909).
that rights and, in certain oí sporting in respect cases, (see section these powers should We are of opinion powers certain rights in of the Irish future be exercised by a department Government.

II.

Pending Oases.

stock.

involve financial.

stock will are mainly law will amount, to at least £580,000 the the annual in stock, partly in 3 per cent, 7.
The special problems to be sold but completed connected with land the sale of which has not agreed The yet been in respect of the 100,000 hold- purchase money is just under ings affected by pending agreements is estimated, 24 million pounds of which, it in cash and nearly 19 millions must be provided in 2£ per cent, stock the balance The raising of but mainly issue of the cash hy either cost a large- amount of excess stock, the pre- of which and of the bonus payable under at present it is estimated, sent (See Sche- a year.
prices, 10-12, pp.'l01-2).

We are of dule that, all these pending cases must be com- opinion pleted on the basis of the agreements and in accordance system to firing of land purchase.

to sell to notice the Act of 1909 (in accordance with which ander in 3 per cent, stock), but payment whose The total purchase money to about £4,500,000.

At the time when most of to sell, the stock stood at these over 80. but.
of the war, and the issue of Government Stocks bearing higher rates sales have not yet been completed.

the case of landlords who agreed the existing We desire, in these cases amounts in consequence is to be made landlords paragraphs however, financial agreed made with III., 88 of interest, this stock has fallen to under 00.
Con- sequently those landlords who have not received payment must suffer a heavy loss if they have to sell stock at the present price in order to pay The difficulty would, we think, be off charges.
fairly met by paying such landlords so much of the purchase money at the actual market price that prevailed for the stock at the date the agree- ments to sell were signed, as may be proved, to the satisfaction of the Land Commission, to be required (over and above the cash bonus, where the landlord is absolute owner) to pay off charges which existed at the date of the agreement to sell, and still exist/ We recognise that this recom- mendation will not help those landlords who have already stock, but we do not consider it practicable to make any com- recommendation received payment sales already in depreciated respecting if they powers is given to our proposals, "We are of opinion that the inauguration ren- of a new system of Irish Government that all pending cases should ders it imperative be speedily completed.
Accordingly, we recom- mend that the cash required should be provided and the stock required issued within three years, at the outside, from the date on which legislative be effect As the Land Commission have cer- accepted.
in respect of these cases, tain discretionary we are of opinion " service, " reserved respeel of pending understanding that within The cases are concerned, these cases will be completed the collection of" purchase for thereof, 5, and 6 above regards the cost by default charge cise of powers over to pending made in respect of completed 4, sales, as and loss caused the annual the exer- all apply sales as soon as they are completed.
for excess stock and bonus, and tenant the recommendations that so far as functions on time mentioned.

in paragraphs it should of annuities, in payment purchasers, annuities a in the remain liability the the its III.

Land unaffected by Land Purchase Acts.

Size of problem.

8.

The ivailable, area of Ireland.


it would appear land not yet affected is over one-third between total agricultural chase Acts comprises of the one-third and its valuation tion of the agricultural sons explained in Schedule is not easy to state precisely ings which are contained land.

On the basis of the statistics issued Technical by the Department Instruction, which seem by the Land one-quarter Pur- and area of Ireland of the valua- For rea- T. (sec pp.
07-8), it the number of hold- it v of in this hirjze quant 0t holdings and to be the best the number exceed* 60,000, alreadv of Agriculture of holdings that that these holdings by them the ratio do no) greatly of the number (7 to 1), and who agreed stock, of "f "ne-seventh affected by the Land Purchase Acts.
The dis- parity between the number of hold- ings which have passed or are passing under these Acts bears to the number of holdings which are as yet unaffected the ratio which the area of the land affected by these Acts * This suggestion may be illustrated by the case of a land- :î peí lord to rent stood £.1,000.

that at SO, he would price in order time the purchase money is paid over fallen to 00. the landlord would have to sell £0.000 of stock in order to pay off charges.
Under the above suggestion the landlord additional to the amount necessary by the delav in payment.

The balance in stock (£6.250) ' left to the landlord and the income therefrom affected by the fall in the price of stock.

at these charges.

Tf by the (£187 10s.

Od.).

would not lie directlv to be paid estate to sell the to sell the charges liad to sell £.
'î,7;i0 steck for £10,000 tm whose have to redeem would (£1,250) amounted stuck the loss caused the stock has time he agreed the payment of charges, to meet receive If at after stock the in bears to the area unaffected by them (less than 3 to 1) is due to the fact that a disproportionate number of the larger tenanted holdings and of the large holdings of untenanted land remain unsold.

* The smaller tenanted holdings (i.e.


the holdings the price of which would not exceed the present statutory limitations on the amount of advances) probably number about 50,000 and constitute the must urgent problem which called for our con- is difficult, however, as will be sideration.
seen later, from that of the larger holdings, and the final settlement of is intimately con- the tenanted land of Ireland nected with the question of untenanted land, in the area under the control of the especially Congested Districts Board and outside that area in connection with congested their consideration to divorce estates.

It Desirability of the speedy completion of Land Purchase.
that tenant under since having before holdings ■ests of landlords, the amount of advances would make improvement should, and that holdings law, be universal, cannot, the prevent the conversion into such conversion tenants, that such a conversion regard that many of the existing or other of tillage; such as has been assumed in their occupiers.

We further such a conversion 9.


We are of opinion tenants of the smaller chasers is inevitable ment, due regard being had gestion and the extension change, frame uf Irish Government nently desirable of the pur- any form of Govern- to the relief of con- and that an- in the above, it emi- in the alike, be speedily effected.
We re- cannot to the require they recog- under the limitations the larger to tenant the present Land Purchase Acts.1 Wc are Government cognise, however, m many cases be immediate fact enlargement are vested that nise existing on tenanted holdings passing from landlord under of opinion, able to ask of the greater to con- tinue as landlords large hold- ings.
We are further of opinion that with a radi- cal change the completion of land purchase cannot be left to the cHiuprindively landlord and ing legislation by either I'ail inn lent.

consider an immediate cessary within the Congested Districts Board operates (all Connaught, Donegal and Kerry and part of Clare and Cork) in order to enable its primary function.
On the other hand, we do not think a wholesale land elsewhere between to amend- the Imperial or the Irish land, we transfer ne- slow method tenant nor be subjected it would be unreason- they had disposed however, landlords part of their transference to be practicable.
in the form of Irish Government, untenanted and universal of the untenanted the area over which to discharge that Board As regards of bargaining that after of a few tenanted isolated land * By untenanted land is meant land in which ho tenancy has been created and where therefore the owner in fee is also the rated occupier.

Such land does not cease to be untenanted let, e.tj., on the eleven months' system.

Land bought under the Land Tu reliase Ails of any data fee from this classification.
by reason of hein^ is excluded temporarily grants under farm held land and after (subject 1st, January.

is that 1901. tThfl main limitation to the exception mentioned created ceed £500 of the Act of 100-3).

and the advance ancies the discretion within advance not exceeding £5,000, provided residential.

tenancy created after where the Districts Board or the Estates Commissioners.

in the case of a tenancy shall not ex- the advance in Sect.
53 in the ca?e of other ten- it is though to make an the holding is in the ease of a the 15th September, 1909. except, the Congested tenancy was created by either shall not exceed £3.000, of the Land Commission can be made ïSn advance that 89 Main Recommendations.

for Mate, transferred as represented we recommend in all tenanted 10.
Accordingly, inteiest (a) the that landlord's land, not ex- cepted below (see paragraph 12), should be auto- to the occupying either matically by the Congested Districts Board or the Estates Com- that missioners, all un- tenanted area not ex- cepted below (see paragraphs 22 and 23) should to be automatically the owner the Board ; and (c ] that out- side the Board's the existing powers of the Estates land should be preserved tended.
for the same purpose area Commissioners : (b) the Board's in one case, ex- land within resettlement to acquire tiansierred untenanted from and, should should changes be effected not be more in Council.

than Change to be effected by Imperial Legislation.

11.

These with a Government transfer the passing of the Act.
to the Lord Lieutenant by an to be passed con- of Ireland Act, but of land should not operate Act of the Imperial Parliament, currently the automatic until " the appointed day," which should be fixed by the Lord Lieutenant however, after served different.days for different purposes.
appointed which tween this Board and the Estates Commissioners time to prepare because pied This date, three years Power should be re- in Council of fixing and possibly of the during be- of the will require for the working of the scheme and the Estates Commissioners will be occu- cases.
con- (1) Ten- day will provide sales may be effected and landlords This postponement interval by agreement in clearing of the scheme off pending can be most the provision because for different districts for three years but mainly two headings is suggested The details considered interval tenants, an veniently anted Land, under (2) Untenanted Land.

TENANTED LAND.

Scope of Change.

auto- not holdings, 12.


We are of opinion the proposed that land tenanted non-agricultural on should of all townparks, to the Judicial transfer to to its propinquity to a town, possesses, holdings latter may, comes within It would, any land exceptions.
to provide matic apply holdings the main object of the letting of which nor to any land which, having was for a residence, regard in or the Estates the opinion Com- of the Board missioners, actual potential a or substantial as building value or utility An appeal ground.
the Board or the Estates Com- should lie from missioners Commissioner the question whether the above-mentioned how- that where an estate ever, be desirable both agricultural and non-agri- includes holdings, landlord cultural if the Congested Districts Board so desires, and or the Estates Commissioners be sold to the holdings.
are of opinion that from the passing of the Act until the to be effected appointed by agreement or the Congested Districts between Board or the Estates Commissioners, on the basis of later; financial but we hold that, the passing of the Act, all Judicial revision of rents should cease, except for .the purpose of converting non-judicial rents into a basis for purchase, ns explained in paragraph 29.
We recommend that the Act should throw upon landlords the duty of lodging before the ap- at the same As we have arrangements from day sales may continue time as the, agricultural and tenants, indicated, landlords landlords proposed between approve, tenants if the and the we the M yo pointed day copies of such documents (schedules copies of rentals, maps, &c.) as ma;, oi tenancies, in statutory be required rules to he made under In connection with this and similar the Act.
duties cast upon landlords by the scheme (see paragraphs 23 and 29) we are of opinion that sec- tion 2:), sub-sections (11) and (12) of the Act of 1003 should apply mutatis mutandis to sales under the new Act.

Position of Landlords.

13.
We recommend, as regards rent and the landlord's right to interest (3) that the uale the appointed to be entitled [Kissing of the Act until to sue for and recover between to rent not already accrued, all rent lay immedi- in lieu thereof, (1) that rent and arrears of rent should continue unaffected hy the day; (2} that on the appointed day the landlord should cease that his right but which had accrued to the passing of the Ad 1 □ i the gale ately prior day immediately prior to the appointed da\ should ¡13'pivserved; t 1 re- ceive from the Land Commission orth.
Congested Districts Board, prior purchase money paragraph and bonus from day, pointed from one year after chase money cent, on the amount of the bonus landlord will be entitled.

money "one year to the ap- should be also paid, as the pur- at ó pía- the the gale day immediately day.

the purchase paid within prior that gale day until interest 31), and.
where not been have the as explained on the below, see to the appointed and bonus be paid, the gale day immediately to which b- entitled as from be should landlord (settled interest the should, from the as the pur- payable money as his paid to the the land The money 14.

The and corpus be distributed the the settled the purchase the bonus interest the appointed interest of all chargeants day, be transferred in to interest of and land!

rd hi ■ finally schedule final from landlord's chase thereon.
should as soon title and has been ference of the holdings anted money should that is to say.

hy any decision the Congested Districts arrive at not to vest any of these holdings the discretion tenants, to these bodies, below.

graphs of as at present.

interest land in accordance with as explained lie final as from the landlord Board may the Estates landlord's 17-20.)
from the to trans- in all his ten- the purchase day, should not be affected Commissioners or the appointed hereafter in the given (See para- cleared incumbrancers The Position of Tenants.

of tenants can he most 15.

The position the scheme supiiested considered in the area within under tenants the control of the Congested Districts Board and (Tl) under conveniently two heads, elsewhere."

tenants if.)

I, In the area under the control of the Congested Districts Board.

16".
16".

We recommend interest of the not specially that on the appointed landlords excepted in all tenanted (see paragraph day the Congested to the Board and Districts that to the Board, Board's the as from area, tenants the for rents, as the Board may deem existing their should be liable gale day, to such reduction to grant.

all the holdings, \2).

within should pass thereof last preceding subject it desirable (a) Holdings passed for vesting.
provided 17, We are of opinion that the Board should as speedily as possible pass for vesting by the Land Commission all holdings the purchase money for limitations which would not exceed the present on the amount of advances, the thai Board did not consider that any of the holdings 1:1 question should be retained for enlargement, or in con- other The annui- nection with the relief of congestion.
ties to be payable by the tenant purchasers of the thus passed for vesting should be such holdings rents proportion count y percentage, le.

plained below.

(See paragraphs of their appropriate as is determined for utilisation improvement, 27-29.)

former ih-' or ex- as (b) Holdings not passed for vesting.

in the for tenants former tenants, interest at what including 18.
()\er the Board should possess recommend should the Board that resettlement the by as may be deemed of continuing tenant's the including the landlords, by the Board over the holdings not thus passed for vest- all powers neces- ing, powers sary possessed special tenants ¡lowers now possessed on estates purchased by the Board, and such other necessary, powers as of the power the whole or acquiring part of any holding on the payment of full com- and of declaring pensation, tenant- of any the of bis own holding purchaser holding the tenant oi' of an alternative or (whether holding smaller) We ants of £3,000 on the amount the other to page 89. the ten an ted.
we are of opinion created should operate Board Districts (sec paragraph land such tenancy.

of the limitation of tiï.000 sells to a tenant part only of his boldin- the Board should, as in other eases of the interest.

pav full com p. for the port of his holding the present of advances in the to conserve at present no 1st January.

the tenant's ■ tenant retained bj the Board.

1918, the Congested untenanted as land comprised larger a fair price.
to ten- limitation but not after to prevent acquiring, the the Board mentioned however, land Tu order, of congestion, land so as from sales by to in consequence lie subject the Board restrictions in such footnote consider tenancy for un- Where relief 23), that in to ' ' II.

Outside the area under the control of the Con- gested Districts Board.

(a) Smaller holdings.

that, cease to be excepted specially limitations 19.
We recommend and should become the purchase money should, on the appointed purchasers; tenant liable in the area not under all the control of the Congested Districts Board, (see of holdings tenants not 12), for which paragraph would not exceed the present upon the amount of advances day, and should become provisional automatically for rent not for liable, already accrued, to the Land Commission, as from the payment last gale day, of a purchase to be fixed in accordance with the scheme set out below (see paragraphs 27-29).
On a day to be specified in the Act, all such statutory provisional as should from the their holdings, unless had already for any par- the ticular provisional fenaiit purchaser on the ground '" as to render improvement, where possible, essen- tial, or on the ground that for any other reason rules made under purchasers day, the Estate Commissioners it undesirable tenant purchaser of his existing holding, such holding was so " uneconomic tenant, appointed to become declared annuity become, tenant pure!
that ill should over above in the occupier to the State.

Over holdings so pos- to those mentioned as \>\ or to be given to the Congested Dis tenants ( onimis.-.iuuers [lowers the Estates similar their Instates Commissioners the holding could not be vested with advantage excepted sess possessed tricts Board IM.

quently lull compensation; of such a holding could declare him holding, proved, or of an alternative considered tenant as it exists or enlarged a fair price.
acquire of that, holding; purchaser or otherwise holding, at what or oi his im- they or could continue as tenant the (see paragraph conse- of such a holding on the payment the tenant could 'l'lie (b) Larger holdings.

on that, on the appointed day, in all holdings, not specially the purchase monej 12), to make.

We are of with in dealing to the should have regard should automatically and as from that the the gale day.

be- to the Land Commis- to such Commissioners re- 20.
We recommend interest their rents prior liable subject limitations should, if any, the present immediately the Estates the appointed the Commissioners of such holdings larger holdings (see paragraph exceed to the Estates Commissioners, to for the payment existing as it advisable the landlord's excepted of which would the amount of the advances, pass tenants day come sion of duction, may deem opinion that these elief Ol ' the in th es] We therefore missioners to the matters mentioned interest tenant's any part thereof; or to continue tenants part that restrictions the whole or any part of such a holding ijiiiivd full pensation holdings of their such sales might he contrary limitations or to sell to them notwithstandn ïucb holdings by the the Estates should ' ' the desirability above, the be empowered, I 'la.'
country, recommend Commissioners on advances.

in any of thereof; he paid should thai and by or the Estates Com- regard having the to'acquire said holdings or tenants as the whole or the to the e: isting Where is ac- com- of increasing the use made tenants.

UV are of opinion to the tenant.

that no advance for the sale of a holding where after 1st January, certify in accordance made was created i'lslat-'s Commissioners of the Tenancy was terests of the country.
the 1918, unless that the création with the in- the should be tenancy Special Powers for Congested Districts Board and Estates Commissioners.

21.
In order to enable the Congested Districts in the sales turbary the manner as boundaries, to the Estates Commissioners proposed, to carry we con- to deal (due the to for the future up- of and cleaning Board and through sider that (hey should he given full powers with such questions regard being paid and his employees), owner turbary and holdings, provision keep and repair of embankments streams with power, where necessary, a maintenance ferred, amalgamation and registration and such other powers as may be necessary.
to establish trans- lands oí small holdings, vesting tenants, requirements provision of holdings of deceased of of access rate chargeable on the UNTENANTED LAND.

Demesnes and Home Farms.

should nof be 22.


We recommend that demesnes and home inter* red with by the farms scheme we are proposing, • and that the present rights of the owner to purchase such land under the Land Purchase Acts should be preserved, to be made in 5 per cent, stock as pro- payment posed hereafter of opinion that precluded lating in respect (see paragraph 26).

We are also be the legis- Irish Parliament years should from for a term of twenty of such laud.
that and such from specially untenanted day, pass plantations townparks, automatically in paragraph the landlords' and plantations, the owner should have interest the exception if he so desired, of retaining land for the relief (.if congestion, estates with farms, excepted land within the Board's area.

than de- land other Other untenanted 23.


As regards mesnes, home farms, in view of the ncce.-»ily of ac- we are of opinion, that quiring all such land within the Board's area should, on the the appointed to the Congested Districts Board, which owner in the would thus acquire of de- whole of their the hold- mesnes, home 12.
We ings the privi- recommend rights lege, land thus sold, and that certain over untenanted small areas (such as herds' gardens, gamekeepers' in con- cottages, and gravel pits nection with the demesnes and home farms, &c.) may be excluded from the sale by agreement be- the Congested Districts tween the price, Board.
(see paragraphs under to be transferred, 35-6), of the untenanted the we recommend area (other than land bought under the hoard's Land Purchase Acts) should be required to lodge with the Hoard, within a certain period after the passing ol the iet (to be fixed by the Land Com- rules), mission of all their untenanted the purpose the plan proposed below that all owners of land within land not excepted the owner and and map above.
of settling in statutory a schedule spurting required quarries land For and and that land powers include of sich pass from to increase to provide the Board's should powers present that of the country, 2-1.

As regards untenanted the owner the Estates land area, we are of opinion land outside that of untenanted their the acquisition in order it this untenanted that Commissioners be preserved, of compulsory the powers of the Estates to acquire agreement with to Other untenanted land outside the Board's area.
the untenanted is not laud the owner on the the pre- to in- Hoard's practicable should automatically appointed day; but we recommend sent acquire cluding acquisition; by Commissioners should be voluntary land extended the food (a) for resettlement (b) on behalf of production the Congested Districts Board, in connection with the relief of congestion within area.

it might facilitate both the Estates Commis- sioners and if the Board infer ne.
they were given power tenanted recommend We holdings portion land, and there should be empowered the Estates Commissioners if necessary, to acquire by compulsion, so much of such the congestion to be paid the Estates by land such in the same way as the price of should be fixed untenanted the Congested Districts Board's area is to be fixed (see pars.
35-6), that the between is, failing agreement Estates Com- by missioners, who in fixing the price should have regard to the fair value of the land to the owner and to the Estates Commissioners.

We are of opinion powers possessed should, above, be governed bv the existing provisions of the Act of 1909. compulsory l>\ the Estates Commissioners the owner and Judicial the is on the same estate untenanted congestion land the in relieving to exchange laud as may be required The price for on the estate.
Commissioners, Commissioners land within of an estate for relieving that where exercise congested special except includes further case that the the the of in M 2 Financial Basis of Sales under the New Act.

think prices involve for future a landlord, be suitable the present raised by the issue of 2f per cent, 25.

We have considered it would be fair to propose the financial basis of the Act of 1903 and of the Act of 1909 (see Sche- IV., pp.
102-4), and we do not consider that dule conditions either basis would, under of the money market, sales.

To revert to the basis of the Act of 1903, payment in cash stock, would at present the State becom- for £85 of excess stock for every ing responsible £100 of agreed purchase money.
On the other band that we do not of land purchase should our plan for the completion through on the basis of the Act of 1909 be carried for every £100 of agreed under winch receives £100 3 per cent, stock purchase money, is worth only £59-60.

which at the present price various proposals which have We have considered (see pp.

10*2-3), and been made is the most hopeful are of opinion in 5 per cent, stock at face value (see p. payment te 94).
This would involve the raising of the Five of purchase half-yearly instal- shillings at 5 per cent., will ments, in 62 secure stock fund at a years.

by be secured uniform at par each half power being to the year an amount stock equal the stock amount by periodical so drawings.
in if uniformly the An rate of 5 per cent, might to redeem of 5 per cent, of £100 of the sinking amortisation investment two equal invested to be determined of the sinking fund payment, redeemable annuities solution to time to 5| taken cent.

from paid time that per Payment in 5 per cent.

Stock Recommended.

26.


Accordingly we recommend that to be sold, after the pur- the pass- Act, wdiether as a or by means of the should come should be paid day, land within stock have been in ñ per cent, that Purchase agreement process which we propose chase money of all land ing of a new band result of voluntary automatic into force on the appointed land and all untenanted area, value.
We are of opinion stock should he issued, and payment anteed, by the Imperial Government, way as guaranteed cent, The Exchequer present tioned interest charge is pointed out p. 99), non-payment practically it may be funds Irish loss of purchasers' .

but negligible, future, the in it is at present.


as imposed will be purely in respect should Irish Consolidated liability above, and upon 2^ per cent, issued since sinking the payments fund that should in Schedule liability for all tenanted the Board's stock at face the new 5 per cent.

thereon guar- in the same stock and '■'• per and guairanteed.

Im] erial its is aa 'stocks men- respect of first a As 6-11, by the has been the annuities upon nominal, of the Fund.

IT.
IT.

(paragraphs be borne by loss, whatever caused form thus State the the in to Automatic fixation of annuities and purchase money of tenanted land.

first, transfer that tenanted 27.

We are of opinion of all the proposed auto- the land on matic appointed day necessitates the adoption of an is explained below, of automatic method, which payable hy all tenant the annuities fixing, purchasers whose hoi them ■!
without alteration by the Congested Districts Board or the Estates Commissioners (see para- graphs 28-9), and secondly, the purchase money of all tenanted land (see paragraph 31).

in AUTOMATIC FIXING OF PUKCHASE ANNUITIES.

1.

Judicial Rents.

at of the the same tenant tenant annuity purchasers purchaser's in the annuity in local circumstances 28.
We are of opinion that, in the case of judicial rents, the best automatic basis is to fix same pro- the portion of his existing rent as the annuities oi previous class formed of their rents.

We consider that varia- can be most fairly tions reduc- to each case the average met by applying the rent, as compared with tion in which not for all Ireland, but for the county feel ourselves is situate.
We each holding debarred from taking as the standard a smaller the county the county, partly because unit are is the in a available, as transaction of result of a large bulk fair only when reason, we have latter of transactions.

the Act of 1903 preferred tc rely on sales under the Act of 1909, and rather sales as came to confine our attention the zones.
within area but mainly because this nature it is the the statistics an average than on sales under for which smallest regarded to such can be than For After this general our specific state class of judicial rents.

explanation, recommendations we can now to each as (a) Each " First Term " Rents.
tenant whose at rents the zones) rent payable on as annuities.. 1896, at prices which the average, the date of the passing of the Act had been fixed before 14th August, 1896, should pay as an annuity such proportion of that rent as former in his purchasers, tenant county, who bought the Act of under 1903 (on the basis of rents fixed before 14th August, came within paid This pro- of their portion is given in Table for each county I. of Schedule V. (p. 105).
cient 74.5 cent, transactions based whose million certain unaffected who are subject 14th August, " first 13 So far as we can as- as yet of tenants by the band Purchase Acts, fixed before called affected purchase money pounds.

the number from to 66.3 per The total figures are to 1896, term " rents, to note here per cent, in Clare that in Kildare and Kerry.

on which over rents commonly these 32,000 it varied exceeded tenants is not large.

It is suffi- (b) " Second Term " Rents.


tenant purchasers, Each tenant whose rent payable at the date of the passing of the Act had been fixed after 14th August, 1896, and be- fore 14th August, 1911, should pay as an annuity such proportion of that rent as former in his county, who bought under the Act of 1903 (on the basis of rents fixed since 14th August, 1896, at prices which came within the zones) on the average, paid of their rents as annuities.

This pro- for each counh is given in Table portion IT.
of Schedule V. (p. 106).

It is suffi- it varied from cient to note here that 83'6 per cent, to 74'5 per cent, in Cork and Clare.

The total transactions on which these figures are based affected over 60,000 tenants whose purchase money exceeded 22 million pounds.

So far as we can in Londonderry tenants as yet ascertain, most of the by the Land Purchase Acts unaffected are subject in the period to rents 14th August, 1896—14th August, 1911, commonly "second called term" fixed rents. "

Third Term " Rents.
Third Term " Rents.

The case of rents fixed since 14th August, 1911, sometimes called " third term " rents, The number is more difficult.

of rents re- vised in the period 1st April, 1911— 31st March, tenants whose is as follows:— have been 1917, No.
the and an average, however, reductions showed cases Consequently, con- we it would be well to provide to be paid by a tenant reut has been revised in no case be greater that payable by a tenant purchaser 1911—viz., 12 6 per cent.—is, only in different obtained variation.

siderable that consider the annuity that purchaser whose since 1911 should than whose 1911 (though 1896) and whose rent was equal payable before chaser who had obtained revision.
a purchaser, vised since 1911, annuity had his rent not been a subsequent This provision will safegu.ard re- from paying a larger to pay than he would have had so revised.

revised it had been revised since since to that pur- rent had not been who has bad his 1911 by a tenant rent Bent fixed for a first term 4,644 ,, 4,594 second third ,, 5,444 15 7 13*5 92 2.

Non-judicial Rents.

29.


Though statistics are available as to We this their rents that, fixed fixed since under large should scheine tenant helpful, To give on on statistics subsequent 14th August, a that by be obtained of rent be are available cannot previous reduction tenants rents as would, to make safe whose tjiat date.

the average guide.

the has certainly as purchase the basis the these is to say, fhe by bad been them obtained who bought since be based on the revision.
to think in cannot their purchase rents On that purchasers obtain a reduction such since 14th August, No the reduction by tenants of rents 1911 ; but such statistics would not have been very bulk such of not been large transactions reduction enough obtained are opinion obtained ignored—that annuities payable tiie otlier hand, we do not such tenant on purchase from 1911, v.v propose, pur- chasers fixed be- fore the same réduction would mean as they are now paying, or will be paying, from some the 14th August, to date l.H 1, on the average, only 87-4 per cent.
of the been pay as paying, annuities (in Cork and Clare) (in Londonderry) We are of opinion tenants who have had rents 1911, should pro- above.

portion After we have re- decided such duction be their tenants, purchase, should be only two- existing reduction obtained, on thirds of tenants term purchase, in reduction their county.

that would this proposal be obtained on pur- under chase, 14th August, that uld county, p. 107).
as obtained since annuities for of Schedule V. shown above, from rent revision since pay than careful to to on rents the by second The rents they would on purchase fixed since 1 -1th August, larger from 1911, and the cent, to 731 per cent, of their old rents.

they had previously those mentioned The reduction consideration recommend obtained 65*1 per in Table annuities fixed rents from that from that only the by III.
as sho a the to tenants to for the that ¿ay, to a that than rents obtained (other furnish required sub-head holdings reduction To enable (seelastpara- not each now tenant this provision the appointed should date the foregoing provisions to all land- a before by non-judicial under of judicial in his county (c), and Table 111. of Schedule the Act of these averages would, pay as an annuity rent, that variations basis annuities.
of all non-judicial lie, as at present, those excepted subject of such 12 above) rents: and should, on purchase, it should between to give effect to fix in non-judicial the automatic We, therefore, the duty thus fixed, as subject to rents 1911, are to pay of such of the be the date of the pass- to our proposals on judicial be (to be fixed hy Land Commission tenancies.
from average in each county who bought 1903, we do not think owing great to rents, be a satisfactory of purchase fixation recommend that Land Commission, ing of an Act and all tenanted in paragraph judicial holding the same proportion tenants judicial fixed sinrje 14th August, rents miller graph, V., p. 107, col. 3).

be carried out, we are of opinion lords certain rules) a schedule An appeal should Sub-Commission to the Chief Commission Court at the instance of either landlord or tenant.
In fixing a judicial rent for the purpose of this to any paragraph reduction given by the landlord It should be made quite clear con- that tinues day, and as annuity.
be We made that of some lease- and certain the of a rent on holders, where agricultural value of the land would not form an equitable we Accordingly, recommend that any party interested in a hold- ing subject rent should have the right of requiring the case of such a holding to be transferred from the Sub-Commission Court to the Estates Commissioners, who have special facilities for dealing with the exceptional eases indicated-; and that they should fix a rent, as a basis for purchase, having regard to the interests of all the parties concerned and all the circum- stances of the case.
An appeal should lie from the decision of the Estates Commissioners to the Judicial Commissioner.

tenant the appointed is assessed only for his old rent until judicial recognise to meet exceptional be paid in the past.

the provision must such as to a non-judicial for sale.

fee-farm grantees a basis fixation purchase fixation should cases, regard special Court liable basis rent that due the the that the the for the of 94 Bonus required—Scale recommended.
Method of fixing Annuities on holdings retained by Board or Commissioners.

treatment 30.

We recommend that all tenants whose holdings are not vested in them, but are retained the or for any other for Districts Board or the Estates Com- should, when holdings in of ö\ per cent, on what to be missioners, them, the Hoard or the Commissioners the fair price of the holding when vested.

pay an annuity reason by are vested declare AUTOMATIC FIXATION OF PI .MONEY OF TENANTED LAND.
for their by such is subsequently landlords land 31.

We arc of opinion that the purchase money tenante..!

lie received to vested land, whether in the tenants without alteration or not, should by a ö| per be the purchase cent, annuity reduced for each class of rent, as 28 and 29.

The provided money by the equal approprh tlu e amount from £ th, land unfavourable rental m Clare or Kerry) 00 <.l rental to Payment to be made in 5 per cent, stock.

ol.
ol.

Accordingly, we recommend that a cash bonus should he payable on the purchase mou.

y land, varying, as do.

s the bonus of all tenanted under the Acl of 1909, from 0 to I inversely with the number of years' purchase that rental.

the The i follows i.i 18 per C , 16 Ain.

'vu 1'S j eai ■ ' pun hase ... ... Nil.

.

: the automatic process recommended, meet the special circum- laud basis.
calculate, on all ¡r 10 per tenanted So 15 per cent, but it is substantially the scale ot the- Act of L909 adapted Erom a 3 p. r a m. basis to a ó per far as we can it will cent, average as eompared with the uniform bonus of 12 per cent.

the Act of which was paid in all cases under I'.tii:; and the variable bonus which averaged just The ., cent, effect of the bonus, assuming at 5 income per cent., would be to raise the landlord's in the must unfavour- per £100 of gross rental, able case mention 2s.
to case, £74, 10s., and from £79, 12s.

to 689, 2s., or possibly, to term " rental figures lor each V. se of a " third Illustrative i tlie Tables ot" 1909. investment favourable the most to Schedule Lderrj .

the Act under in (See pp.

104:7).

.

".2.

This purchase money should be paid Purchase not W. the money market tion of at a slight- redemption the amount discount, tins though at par of an amount of the sinking fund.
I (see parsagraph 2á), st ondi- stand liglit half-yearly ght have that all charges in keeping '■■ We recommend such as death should an amount is equal duties, he redeemable of stock to the amount n annual up the price of the stock.

to the State, eto., of such quit and crown by the transfer rents, due that the interest therefrom of the charge, where charge, and by the such transfer of stock equal at face value to the amount of where such charge is a capital charge.
should Thus, mirier This provision landlords.

crown purchase instead of 25 year-' purcl be redeemed be of some ass could rents this proposal, quit and at 20 years' Effect on Landlord's Income.

the that "first landlord, 33.

We however, recognise, vary term" the annual under for available this income from £63, 2s.

per scheme, which might ('hire or in rental £100 of gross to £79, 12s.

per £100 of gross " second Kerry to term " £84, 17s.
per 6100 of " gross term " rental m Londonderry, would rarely suffice to yield the landlord's in Londonderry, or possibly an adequate as compared net, rental.

income rental third with 1.

Within Money of Untenanted the Board's area.

[■.■coinmended Land.

ai all or to such and, Board; should, tor also of acquiring not a demesne, to lodge with laud, townpaik, 35.

We have already the purpose recommended the Board's under (par.
28) home in view for the on the the Congested of settling that land pass automatically the owner all untenanted that farm, plantation, of the necessity relief of congestion, appointed day from Districts the price, we have owners of land within the Land Pur- tenants who bought than chase Acts) should be required the Board, within a certain period after the passing of the Act (to be Bxed by the Land Commission in statutory their un- above.
tenanted land other We now recommend as inspect all such soon as possible land, and make an offer setting out the estimated price.

on owner, price and at ñ per cent, on flic bonus payable thereon should he paid to the owner, as Erom the appoint .1 da;.

until is finally cleared and the final schedule of incumbrancers settled.
If the proposed price be accepted by the cent, interest, a schedule that the Board than that thereafter, to of all excepted value and tC the owner, the title at ö per interest should, rules), proposed annual the in the who owner declines 36.

M' the to accept should fixing pro- lie to the Judicial posed price, an appeal Commissioner, the price the land in question should have regard to the fair to the owner value of the to the Con- gested Districts Hoard.
Pending his decision, a sum equal to the annual value as determined b?

the Board, plus 5 per cent, on th.- home; payable on the proposed price, should bi to the ' as from the appointed daj.
From land and of the date of the fixation of price by the Judicial the date when the purchase Commissioner until money to the owner the price on interest plus and any difference is paid over, there should be payable at 5 per cent, Commissioner interest ■ Judicial ... on the bonus; and (b) fixed by between as from price; price interest period fixation of the price) should be added deducted [&} the sum actually paid to the owner day until the appointed of the pitia for the same the to or sum at 5 per cent, on the bonus (i.e., the case may be) at 5 per ceut.
interest the the appointed fixation on Commissioner day until Judicial from from the (as the to the owner.

2.

Outside 37.

As already mentioned the Board's area.

consider an ted land automatically it practicable outside pass from the landlord day; but we have recommended (par.
24) we do not that unten- area should on the that the Board's to propose the present to acquire powers of the Estates uiitenanted their and present that to the owners acquire by land should Commissioners be preserved, of compulsory powers of the Estates the powers land by voluntary should be extended the price the in between eases owners, In voluntary agreement and the Judicial except and Commissioner in special the 24, where unten- by the Estates Commis- on (he same Commis- agreemenl Commis- Judicial failing the Estates congestion the price, to the Eair value oi and the Estates to and regard owner by the law, in paragraph the fixed acquisition, Commissioners agreement with for certain purposes.
be should I'.sl'itcs Commissioners compulsory cases oxisfing ujnlei' (rase mentioned anted sioners estafe.

sioner between sioners, to land the I 'ommissioners.

the owner is to have Hi such fixing in order- land the in is acquired to relieve a case, the Scaje of Bonus on all untenanted land.

on untenanted the Hoard's the We recommend thai the bonus to be laud, both within and in accord- be payable Outside ance with above, and that the second oí the First Schedule to the Irish Land Ad of L909 should apply.
* 34 clauses in paragraph and third set out should scale area, * These clauses are:— |2] In cases win1 re an estate is made shall, Commissioners advance advance fci" scale, be apportiniii-d land comprised t,i,iiiiiii>-i,,nri-,- case may be, direct.

Ijy the Estates is luircha-cd or the Congested Districts Heard.

.I in respect ol' the estate as a whole, of and parcels the the the of in such manner as the Estates the the the holdings the purple between in the estate ,,r application l.',.
;i-...--i.-i Districts Hoard.

of tin- as the than In land, (8) anted less 's mivhase ,n manner [••.'

in ,,r case nf the purchase and in any case where the purchase money, liy represented rt parcel ¡niu.imt of uiiten- of (he advanced the numb.-!- of years' lie calculated shall the advance ,e,| land to the being fiad value annual lair the il,,, case of untenanted to the owner.
land dated The Regulations 15th February, 1910, made by the Treasury are as follows :— Fur of the Scale in the First .Schedule .,f the Tris], Land Act.

1009, the purpose of the anplication in accordance with -; I lined : s ■ -eut-il l,v Mi" Advance T. In the case oi the purchase of a parcel of untenanted land by dividing the amount of the purchase money by the Con- the •■ Mie cas,' may he.

shall estimate value i.f such parcel 'In- fair annual the Estates Commissioners which to the amount or IT.
Til any case where than the purchase money, by dividing the amount of the pur- chase money by the amount of the rent, or in the case of the amount advanced h less nrissionera shall estimate to be its fair annual value (,, the .

"■I hy tlie amount which the Estates C. Bonus to be regarded as Imperial Expenditure.

been treated alw ays though in 1903 that when for an Irish as a pa\ meut 39.

It will be remembered as "a free gift to Ireland."


the pay- it ment of a bonus was first proposed was described It tu be has tux payers, oot of Great Britain made by the or lie land, but of Ireland and Great Britain.

it In other words, has always been regarded a- an Imperial obliga- land not yet sold tion.

Wo see no reason why in this respect from land should be differentiated sold or agreed to be sold.
Accordingly, altea,l\ for the we recommend the like bonus payable chargea aud pending by the Great Britain's for bonus and excess the sales, be stock first 1ml should, paid so far as be in completed instance the annual charge that in future Irish Government, service, should, sales in share •ontributiuii thereof by is concerned, the Irish Govern- this We hold cost.

as the would scheine inasmuch in the of bonus The rate Imperial the more expenditure.
strongly, the under land purchase the cost t the purchase monej V., pp.

104-7).

now proposed he consider- the State has been pava!,I under to ment view all to tlie State for completing ably less than the past.

scheine proposed will average about 15 percent.


on Schedule estimating be payable land, but if it be assumed that the rate will not in that be substantially payable i ost to the annual could be bor- than 4/5 per the pounds tlie State the bonus, rowed ai 5 per cent., would he less total cent., for every million money.
the on the purchase money of untenanted (see of that will I of tenanted rate of bonus of tenanted is no means if money different purchase average amount laud, from land There on of of the Thus, ¡noney of pur- (if be the per cost under averaged these to the annual la cost per cent.—and to the State cent.)

would if total the scheme figures may he eunirastcl and 4/5 of land bought fcSO.OOO.f If 10, tlie annual the bonus £7,875—under purchase money were proposed the State (for 62 years) would be £236,250*.
With cost (which spect under or 1 per cent., while State .

ad\ancc,l £580,000 cent.

of the 75 million the Acts L903-9.

This amounts the corresponding advanced to £7ñ3,OcO to fbe cost pounds to be at estimated 2h per under the does not arise under excess our scheme) alread\ of the 24 million is the annual stock in re- pending annum, in respect for bonus in per pounds slightly cases State or to Expenditure on Land Resettlement Commissioners.
by Estates to on must Under of 1903 attention necessity ' _ ' the question land.

the 40.
the 40.

Before leaving the lor the expenditure "-sinners ¡thin of untenanted (s. 44) of finance, we of that the incur their area and on the the of "con- desire to draw making Borne provision V.-< the relief ol resettlement loss on Ad gested" estates within the meaning of Section 6 (5) was charge.1 on the parliamentary vote for the Land Commission, and all other expenditure on improvement was met out of the Reserve I'mler the Act of 1909 all loss on resale Fund.
and expenditure was met out of the Reserve Fund, and since the exhaustion of the latter, which occurred on the 31st May, 1910, out of the parliamentary vote for the Land Com- mission, For these purposes, £75,000 was voted improvement resale tThe difficulties in the way nf arriving nt ;i sntisfactnrv estimate of the pmhahle price nf the unsold land of Ireland in Schedule I (sec especially r.,r:,_. ,■,,,,, are explained 96 on up the total from year.

transactions purchasers.


The the Estates these \ per cent, on the is not recoverable The data available to enable us to say whether transactions future in the year 1913-14, and £30,000 is provided in total amount the voto tor the current Commis- expended since 1903 by sioners purposes was to date on £685,000.
Of this sum £360,0U0, which is less of the than the Commissioners, are not tenant a similar sufficient percentage the of Commissioners would be a sufficient Estates provision of What money may expenditure.

should be voted by the Irish Parliament, but it that such expenditure, within certain is arguable limits, and also the cost of the staff of the Land be Commission, Imperial expenditure.
special already been made ing in this manner Land Commission which of purchase lection has 4) for treat- (see paragraph that part of the cost of the in the col- treated recommendation irrecoverable required be should A is incurred to make annuities.

respect as in Expenditure on Land Resettlement by Congested Districts Board.

cost of in favour of treating the Congested The of object expenditure.

avowed the 41.
avowed the 41.

More can be said per annum which the of as Imperial a backward the backwardness part, least, at Districts Board Board was created with "developing Estate," attributed, whether in the past.
We, cerned with £250,000 poses other of serious which resettlement cost of administration, resettlement and regarded be accepted, instance, solidated Fund; share as part payment may have than consideration sets to be defrayed as Imperial the Board to make thereof but, is concerned, of whatever towards such expenditure that part of the Board's of which rightly or wrongly, this Report, in portion of the Imperial is largely to neglect are not con- income of to pur- it is worthy amount the land loss on and the so far as land purchase is devoted but whether for land purchase, aside (over £100,000 per annum) are concerned, expenditure.
If ought, out of the should not be this view in the first Irish Con so far as Great Britain's be reckoned Ireland should contribution Imperial expenditure.

Question oí reservation of Congested Districts Board and Land Commission.

the will cases under should reason remain powers pending 42.
In paragraph 7 we recommend continue in respect a "reserved" as that, to have of pend- service cases it seems be Commission of these that auspices same in respect being discretionary it should that the control of the Government the Land certain ing cases, so far as its functions are concerned; not unreasonable completed under whose tuted, The future nor the Estates Neither sioners would have any important discretionary as between power and every- thing would worlc automatically, it might give rise if the work of the friction to great Board and the Commissioners, which is nothing less agri- land ¿>f Ireland, were carried out by cultural does not the scheme which we propose.
of the unsold tenants; and resettlement sales under the Board insti- in proceedings landlords reason apply than C, -mi mi..-.. were the departments which would not be under the control of the Irish Government nor responsible to the Irish Parliament.

Reservation not desirable.

therefore, of opinion on that landlords 43.

We are, the Congested Districts Board should not be reserved at all, and that the reservation of the Land Commission should cease on the appointed day.
On that day the Land Commission would prac- tically cease to be a judicial tribunal deciding the one hand and cases between tenants or the Estates Commissioners or the Congested Districts Board on the other hand, the fixation by the Judicial except as regards Commissioner of the price of untenanted land.
The fact that the removal of the present Judicial Commissioner, as of all other existing judges, would presumably as it was in the be reserved, Government of Ireland Act, to the Crown on an address from the Imperial Parliament, would, so far as he is concerned, meet any purpose that could be secured by reservation of the Land Commission.
The appointment of any Judicial Commissioner whom it might be necessary to appoint hereafter might be left to the Lord if he becomes a non- Chancellor of Ireland, political officer, or to the Imperial Government.

the appointed day, and the Congested Districts Board, after be the passing the Irish Parliament brought and consolida- may adopt due regard being had tion of Irish departments, Irish officers.

to the the Act, into any scheme 44.


The Land Commission, for the amalgamation of all existing therefore interest could after of Sporting Rights.

that on the the Board's 45.

We have already of untenanted recommended land within of on the (Cd.

the in in 4097, these hand, unless Board 249 of should landlords.
of these the other on Congestion land outside Commissioners, pass Board the privilege the Final Beport as was pointed on the one band, retained sporting by rights and land, we should are of to or prevail the Board's landlord sporting the should have rights same We are of considerable that, of (par 23), and we are of rule in tenanted regards rights of shooting the Congested Districts that of untenanted As that tenants, by agreement and tenants or the Estates rights recognise value out transfer area retaining opinion respect area.
opinion the the Estates landlords, between or the Congested Districts Commissioners, are that many districts, paragraph Commission of dissipation or small an total are qjf important and opinion the Congested inte- the Estates Commissioners rests of the tenanl purchasers, promote, as far as they can.

and of as- eneouragi- of trustees sociations, for this purpose.

rights, we are '■ of opinión these the privilege of retain- ing or disposing of them, together with nil neces- sary of fishing.
for In cases where the landlord does not desire tain or dispose of these that Districts Board or the Estates Commissioners, when they are of opinion that the preservation of such rights would conduce to national interests.

the preservation of these "ases in suitable the and the appointment As regards the the Boyal 1008), the a number the partial into rights amongst results in be developed occupiers loss of what might they should be retained by th.
rights, we recommend Districts should, Board in the should have asset.

We, the purpose of access therefore, landlord, formation national rights, rights, fishing usually to re- where rights that that Question of a Perpetual Rent Charge.

rent-charge the suggestion, should be reserved It will be remembered 46.

We have considered not infrequently made from time to time, that a per- petual in favour of the State on all holdings sold under the Land Purchase Acts.
that such a proposal was embodied in the Land Bill of into the House of Commons 1903 as introduced but was abandoned.
We have not examined the if we made a re- merits of the proposal, rent commendation charge, it could apply only to the tenants who have not yet purchased their holdings, and we it would he practicable, do not consider that even that one- eighth of the landholders of Ireland should be put in a position different from that occupied by the remaining if it were desirable, of a perpetual seven-eighths.

to propose favour since, in 47.

We desire to express our high appreciation Callan.


His knowledge of the help afforded us by our Secretary, Mr. Walter the Land Acts of and Land Finance in its range and is admirable accuracy.

His power of doing work, his helpful- ness and his courtesy con- tributed to the completion of our work.

have most materially MacDONNELL (Chairman).

»&DE.NIS KELLY.

ORANMORB AND BROWNE.

M. K. BARRY.

J. J. CLANCY.

MICHAEL E. KNIGHT.

GEO.

F. STEWART.

Secretary WALTER CALLAN.

to the Sub-Comm 1918.


January, 23rd SCHEDULE I.

THE SIZE OF THE PROBLEM OF THE COMPLETION OF LAND PURCHASE.

(On 31st March, 1917).

1.

The following table, which has been already given in paragraph 2 of the Report, contains par- ticulars of the land (1) already sold, (2) agreed to be sold, and (3) not yet the subject of pro- 2.
The urea not vet the subject of proceedings is 30 per the Land Purchase Acts (col. 2) of nndcr cent, agricultural whilst ¡is valuation (col. 3) is 36 per cent, of the total valuation land of Ire- of the agricultural land.

area of Ireland, total the 3.


From these two factors it might be inferred the total problem still to be faced is one- or in process of completed but, for reasons which appear below, the size of the problem to he the proposed is not so that half of that already completion, it is evident that dealt with under great.

scheme the but of the of the in future this figure On cases laud unsold law valuation 4.
The financial size of the problem it might be larger (col. 4) has very roughly, at 72 mil- is of little- value, as it can be relied on.

is quite unreliable.

by some been estimated, lion pounds; was arrived at merely by multiplying the annual land unsold by 20 (the poor law valuation given of the average number of years' purchase poor lands dealt with under the Acts 1903-9).
Neither the multiplicand nor In the first place the multiplier the multiplier the one than hand, in for a much past cases, larger proportion than did the sold; and a greater number of years' land already law purchase than of tenanted valuation land, the vendor has a larger since recent in the interest changes in the effect of decreasing the in stock bearing 5 per purchase money pur- cent, chase the pur- chase money was paid in stock which carried only 3 per cent, the purchase money or when was paid in cash and the rate of interest on trustee investments at about 3£ per cent.
has always been given of the poor of untenanted the same number be expected the money market must On "the other band, includes land interest, cannot the multiplier.

in the former was estimated have When of untenanted as when of years' interest, is paid land.

case 5.

The multiplicand is equally unreliable, for for sale.

home farms, includes scheme.


demesnes, labourers' it includes and few of This class land outside (col. 1) remaining the proposed a large quantity land etc., none of which must, the unsold townparks, which probably will, be sold under scheme.

Moreover, of untenanted the area of the Con- gested Districts Board, of which only a portion will be sold under the proposed 6.
It is also difficult to estimate the number of holdings The total number of agricultural holdings in Ireland, according to the Agricultural Statistics of 1915 is 569,426.

Of this total, 105,005 were under includes 1 acre.

cottage plots (of which there are over 47,00 in Ireland) and many small gardens, etc., which are outside the operations of the Land Purchase Acts.

Still a certain number of holdings under 1 acre have been sold under the Acts, and more may be.
The Land Commission cannot give any estimate of the number of such holdings.

it is the size of the problem to say not exaggerating that at least 5,000 holdings under 1 acre have passed or will pass under the Land Purchase Acts.

the total number of agricultural holdings that have passed or are the Land Purchase Acts likely might be taken as 470,000.
This, however, is probably for a certain num- ber of non-agricultural holdings (e.g., holdings in towns and villages) have been already sold under the Land Purchase Acts, and more will be similarly sold unless the law is changed in this respect.

No estimate is available as to the num- be of such holdings; and therefore all that can hi said is that the total number of holdings which have been sold, or are likely to be sold, is over 470,000.

As already sold or agreed to be sold is just under 410,000 the.
number remaining to be sold would appear to be in view of the over 60,000.

This figure, which, N This would suggest an under-estimate, to pass under the number of holdings Probably that 98 regarding holdings under 1 acre and uncertainty non-agricultural Í3 liable to modification in view of the following fact.

is largely hypothetical, holdings, and tenants, 7.


The term " holding " both in the Agricul- tural Statistics and in the Census Returns (which are (dassilied on a basis different from that of the Agricultural Statistics) includes not merely hold- ings occupied by tenant purchasers but also demesnes, home farms, and other hold- land.
Most of these holdings ings of untenanted would be included in the 10,444 holdings given in the Agricultural Statistics as above 200 acres in extent, and in the 13,472 holdings which are for 1911 as exceed- given in the Census Returns ing £100 valuation.
* There is no means of ascer- in ques- taining how many of the large holdings tion are (1) held by tenants, (2) held by tenant All that purchasers, and total number can be said is that, (in the wider sense) as yet unaffected of holdings the number of hold- by the Land Purchase Acts, all of which will under ings occupied by tenants, to the the proposed tenants, scheme pass either or the Congested Districts Board, or the Estates than 60,000, and Commissioners, must be less not possibly (3) are untenanted.
if 00,000 be the be more 50,000. than may 8.

It is impossible put 1,300 unsold, includes scheme, tenanted at 50,000. large Less the average is £12 and the proposed roughly be than Land Purchase a very much holdings holdings Acts at a price exceeding to give even an estimate of the probable price of the tenanted holdings which the number will pass under The of which may average valuation of the 3110,000 holdings already- The sold was £17 and the average price £325.
in pro- average valuation of the 100,000 holdings cess of sale price £240.

the average price of the hold- On the one hand to be sold may well be consider- ings remaining the average ably greater price of the hold- than to be sold, for the former class ings sold or agreed larger propor- does the than have been sold .

undoubtedly tion of latter.

underthe the £3,000 limit, and undoubtedly the number of the price of which remaining large holdings greater.
would that exceed On the other hand, that the purchase money of all unsold holdings will than was be less of a corresponding already of the change, is.

the change basis; at rates varying vestment per cent., or stock hearing to stock bearing at 5 per cent.

interest average price of the unsold holdings—say —works out at the average holdings purchase remaining works out at, the average already holdings the tenanted scheme would be slightly over 16 millions.
view of the size of some of the holdings the be considerably at 3 per cent., If the 50,000 price of the 100,000 total land of Ireland If it the 300,000 total price of the In of holdings sold because to, in the financial in process of sale tenanted from 3 per cent, interest is very much to be remembered larger tenanted total price may for sale would he 12 millions.
sold land of Ireland the purchase money price of the to be sold under from cash capable now rnonev limit, it has of in- to 4 remaining for sale valuation (.£325), for the referred (£240), already that higher.

the 9.

As regards the untenanted land, it ia im- possible to give anv estimate of the probable pur- chase money involved.

All the untenanted land within the Board's area (other demesne than * It id important 13,472 larpe holding their total pounds, or nearly one-third land of Ireland.
agricultural to note that exceeded law valuation poor four million acres and the total acreage of these that three million total valuation of the exceeded of the and home farms, etc.)

is to be bought under the scheme, but oven within this limited area it is impossible bo obtain any definite estimate of the amount of untenanted" land or of its probable price.
Outside this area the amount of land to be bought depends upon the requirements of the Instates Districts Board for the relief of congestion and resettlement, and it is impossible to offer any opinion whatever upon the probable purchase money.

Commissioners and of tie SCHEDULE II.

PTiRCHASEBS' ANNUITIES.

1.

The total advances made for land purchase since 1870 up to 31st March last was 98$ mil- lions.
The difference between this amount and the 100 millions, mentioned in paragraph 2 of land the Report as the purchase money of the sold, was provided by the purchasers in cash.

Some of the advances have been redeemed by on the ad- the purchasers to over 2f mil- vances not so redeemed amount : the annuities payable sums The advanced extended annuities 10| millions.

in cash and amounted within for the most part 2.


Advances made under Acts prior to the Act to of 1891 were made payable nearly thereon are ufficient to pay the interest charge a cer- to anr ■ • t l-l- tin and a fixed tain peri.

.d.

which was to 79 years where period of 40 years, as most the purchasers did, The only financial of three decadal is where pur- difficulty punctually.

chasers Any posits " aie not available, funds Loans Act.
only a little over £5,000, loss is practically de- " guarantee defrayed out of public Public Works loss since 1881 has been annual the average in these cases their annuities is, where that arises do not pay incurred by The'total reductions.

themselves, negligible.

provided loss so annual availed and the the Acts of 1891-6 amounted payable charges thereon and under and to pay ;i.

Advances made in stock, The annuities interest were made millions.
ficient stock within which was estimated 30 yeprs them selves period of repayment rise in the rate of interest.

three in a period which was not at 42-^- years the ease of purchasers < if decadal has been diminished reductions redeem to over 13 are suf- the fixed but by (extended who availed ) ■ The by the cases made payable in cash 4.

Advances for issue stock.


are of 1903, the of in under the Act to 67 millions, were made raised mainly the The sufficient to redeem, amounting most by part 2£ per cent, annuities to pay tin--' the an amount of stock charge on, and equal at face value of the cash ad- vanced, within a period which was estimated at 68$ years hut which will be less owing to the rise in the rate of interest.

have no liability for the " Exeess Stock " which had to be created at a discount.

to the stock being III.)


The purchasers (See Schedule fo the amount owing issued interest of 1909, for 5.

Advances made under the Act to nearly H millions, were made amounting the must part in 3 per cent, ties payable are in these cases sufficient to pay the is- sued within a perinil which was estimated at 65 years, hut which will he less owing to the rise in the rate of interest.

interest, charge on and redeem the stock stock and the annui- 6.

Ignoring the question III.


), annuities see Schedule to which, the purchasei-s' for the charges from advances made under Acts, 1891-1909.
Financial difficult; their are and sinking do not pay ■ iiasers interest of Excess it may Stock be said (as that to pay fund arising the Land Purchase sufficient annuities and any deficiency i may be said the into thereout punctually, out of the Guarantee technicalities -rant-, paid count and paid as far make good ment of ratepayers the Guarantee tenant have the deficiency caused Fund, which so caused'is met (avoiding to consist of various Ac- So to Irish Local Taxation councils.
to county is called Fund upon purchasers' to bear the annuities, loss/-' by the non-pay- Irish the has, been Fund fund, almost sinking however, in respect to be made tenant on called upon the Guarantee loss so caused 7.

The permanent purchasers the preceding Fund to meet deficiencies not having paid to the Guar- infini- On each dividend day, or day on which of interest have antee tesimal.

payments is in- and arising variably their an- from gale day.

Most of this nuities cases of money, to pay.


unpunctuabtv, of the an- During nuities pavable under tlie Land Purchase Acts, 1891-1909, was £2,555,283.

At the beginning of to £28,053, but as the year amounted the the year, £32,558,216 to only 1917, amounted arrears two-thirds were collected £25,120, during the arrears was on 31st March, of which over the year 1010-17 to meet failure three months.

the amount is requited '.if absolute tkie next however, collected during not I be the repayments 8.
Against accrue on the Guarantee in respect the charges each half year set recent to the Guarantee the amount Fund of current that which are arrears must of old arrears.

being continually made in respect repayments thus In several years, the have been greater Fund made in the year Thus, drawn out.

than ended 31st March, 1916, £189,000 was drawn out of, and £196,000 was paid tee Fund of arrears.

in respect year the the amount drawn out was £199,949 and the Guaran- the billowing repaid was £195,734.
into, In amount full amount in consequence and by of the annuities of fresh time been made, they may the amount it.

Fach year the is increased having is completed or more, amount at present.
payable vances purchase millions average than remembered interest through misfortune, sale becomes realisation that in his holding * A «mail and consequently the of arrears may well be On the other hand, each year a tenant grows, greater, it must purchaser's and arrear is available not merely what was formerly loss may he necessary, the Guanantee fait upon there falls into and that to ad- land five total larger be consequence of unproductive balances, but 11 ¡Hi,, j if, a for the in is Fund item this to If t An letter" col- a goods.
Sessions.

elaborate nf arrears a decree obtained exists few weeks speedy <:ale day, in anear: the debtor's to satisfy the claim, or if the writ tbe ensure after each to each purchaser After at Quarter if em a lid is made, and then, if necessary, seizes system A lectinu is sent "solicitor's if iliis is not sufficient, a civil bill ¡s issued, and.
sary, aictlier sheriff sufficient goods if neces- this the are not is the Land Commission pro- is not often necesflarj this ceeds come in at each sta^e a> mere and more in the of the proceedings, of the Superior in the amount amount rare County Court.

sale of recovered of arrears the holding.

Where lops is incurred, due to the difficulty of effecting a sale in consequence of local feeling.
Like proceedings are taken in excess the délit due taken be full the on the is generally it Courts where for whicli It proceedings is very to sell the holding, goods," but of tlie arrears may for to he there not is 99 landlord's occupation 10.
It (in respect interest of which ing paid), but also the tenant interest, the an- right or is of importance in this connection to note that when ■barge a defaulting to be made tenant on charge purchaser the Guarantee is deducted, share of tbe grant which Account, from to the county that tenant the area by a purchaser's duty amount not grant, Fund, the ultimately, death Taxation land but payable the defaulting ing down of caused an excellent against wish of the comity sion names public of defaulters opinion defaulters, now effect communicates 11.
Any loss arising thus annuities Irish funds, under Acts prior the except from of that the or other available total item for in which is situate.

responsible default in moulding and, councils, amount in of the the Local the whole of Ire- is the holding of This narrow« loss the for is- said to have opinion public the in accordance with to in each county, the Land Commis- councils the the so that local may be directed against them.
falls, under from the non-payment of law, upon in the case of advances made seen, the present as has been to 18.11, and.

loss in these cases is practically negligible.

the that into Fund tHiarantee provisions of purchase rested with attach that The financial to the Irish revenue the Irish Government 12.
In both tbe Home Rule Bill of 1893 and of Ireland Act, 191-1, it was pro- the Government vided that the liability which now attaches to Irish the should funds Consolidated Fund ; that is, to make good, as they do now, any should have hy non-payment annui- loss caused of both measures ties.
the put within were so arranged the included control the of sums now payable Account which go to form Il whether Irish the Councils sums able out of the Local Taxation Account, ther was also within ment system grants caused tinue responsibility county purchase:*; the these loss con- the area of .

each that of tbe default to pay out of Local Government to those now pay- or whe- It Irish Local Taxation the Guarantee Fund.

to decide the Irish Parliament continue Irish similar under- which down by county.
is so narrowed the loss of holdings under whicli to bear the they would to above, lates have of and whether referred in relief by default, they would make other the they would they would continue to decide whether incurred in that the arrangement arrangements.

Irish Govern- the province revenue annual of the suffers to IB.

No objection was taken in Parliament Irish Consolidated for loss caused annuities.

In could the bility chase objection course only advances be adopted trol of the Irish Government.
reasonably if a reckless the by sonn- authority respect beyond value Fund assuming by non-payment of future taken he to this lia- of pur- advances to such a policy of sanctioning of holdings not under were to the con- the would have Irish Government loss incurred by the non-payment 14.

Under the Bill of 1893 and the Act of 1914, whilst to bear of pur- any it was the Imperial and not chasers' annuities, the to that was to continue Irish Government these annuities.
This division of func- collect tions, which arose from treating the administra- tion of the Land Purchase Acts as a reserved ser- vice, seems undesirable.
Any remissness on the part of the Imperial Government in collecting annuities would involve not that Government but the Irish Government in, at any rate, temporary loss Moreover, the policy of leaving the eollec- N2 100 annuities in Ireland tion of purchase perial Government, which must have recourse Irish Courts ment of necessary Irish officials- for claims, seems case of concurrent to the Im- to the enforce- an un- to involve jurisdictions.

their and in the treatment 15.


The Bills of 1886 and 1893 and the Act of pro- of annui- to 1891.

As has prior this loss now falls not on the Guaran- to the United practically the Irish Government might well these 1914 show some variance posed for loss caused by non-payment ties due for land purchase been seen, tee Fund but on funds common Kingdom.

negligible undertake annuities.

connected with is, however, and all liability loss The SCHEDULE III- EXCESS STOCK AND BONUS.

Part I.

Completed Cases.


Excess Stock.

1.

Under the Act of 1903, the cash required the The been fund) stock.

issued tenants' however, for sinking tenants' the annuities were at issue of 2| per the would have the stock on issued If stock had always annuities liabilities could never be for interest for every £100 cash at sufficed issued.

at par, to obtain £100 cash it has been neces- over £115 Stock."

to provide fund on only £100 of this fund on the for advances was raised by cent, rate of £3 5s.

Od.
Od.

(£2 15s.

Od.

being and 10/- advanced.

par, the to discharge Stock, and in order sary As and sinking interest £115 stock, the balance, which Stock," was, under Sect.

36 (0) of the Act of 1903, made the out of the Guarantee payable the purpose of this charge " Ireland Development first item of the Guarantee of to issue, on the average, a purchasers' the grant, (¡rant Fund.

Ireland Development interest is known 2.

The historv as "Excess and sinking " formed Eor as sufficed annuity known "Fund.
the the the sranf under called required following connected in Ireland.

as was not c. 23. and with Land Purchase a corresponding in the Scottish Education for education were made payable grant In 1902, when new in Eng- for Scot- vote, Grant may be recalled.
grants land and Wales, land was included and a pledge was given to make an equivalent annual year, In by 3 Edward VIL, fixed at this grant was £185,000 per annum, it was enacted that so much of the grant for pur- poses the Irish Land Act of 1903 should be paid into an account Grant and of economic The Irish Land Act of 1903 provi- sion for the payment, nut of this crant.

of £20,000 n vear and to Trinitv College.


£5,000 a year The balance of the grant went into the cash portion of the Guarrmfpo Fund, hut so far as it was not wanted to meet charges on that Fund, to he de- alreadv viz., voted specified, education de- of economic facilities.

A certain velopment amount was so expended, but owing to the ¡n- promotion facilities.

38-9).

made the Congested Districts Board, education, and (sects.
the promotion transit the purposes and to development Ireland Development the transit it was devoted and the to to * At the present moment it would iss'ip nearly £185 of 2| per cent.

Stock £100 cash.

he necessary to to obtain in order creasing charge on it, as the first Guarantee Fund Excess Stock, the amount tion and economic purposes grew steadily in the liable for charges arising out of for educa- available less.
item to the balance Fund would have the whole of Grant, then market value of the stock, 3.

In 1909 the annual charge on the Guarantee in respect of Excess Stock amounted Fund and it was calculated over £100,000 per annum, that, at the the charge would rise to £750,000 per annum before Such a charge Land Purchase was completed.
swallowed on the Guarantee of the up not only for Ireland Development the cash portion of the Guar- this purpose, antee Fund, second the whole of the item, the Death Duty Grant, and half of the and so would third item, and have dislocated It was district provided by the Irish Land Act, 1909, therefore Sect.

7, that, once the £160,000 available out of the Ireland Development any further should he made good not out of the Guarantee Fund but out of money voted by Parliament.
* the Agricultural the finance throughout of the county Ireland.

in respect of Excess Stock Grant was exhausted, in but also deficiency councils Grant, item, first the sums necessary fully hypothecated to meet the 4.

The £160,000 available out of the Ireland Development Grant became in 1910, and fur- the ther loss on Excess Stock have since been voted as part of the cost of the Irish Land Commis- sion.
The the in ended year £280,000, the sum actually paid out was £267,740, and in addition to the £160,000 a year available out of the Ireland Development Grant.

sum voted under 31st March, this head 1917, was by into after 5.

The question of Excess Stock does not:—as in the case of advances a general rule—arise made under the Act of 1909, that is, in the case of agreements entered the 15th Sep- tember, 1909, as they are financed on a different the payment of to vendors basis, namely, the new 3 per cent.
Stock at its face value.

Land, however, bought by the Congested Dis- tricts Board or the Estate Commissioners, com- pulsorily or under a final offer, has to be paid for in cash, and this may involve the issue of Excess Stock, the charge for which would fall upon the parliamentary vote for the Land Com- mission.

In 6.

Two points may be noted which have a the first place, bearing on Excess Stock.
the duration of the purchasers' annuities is not fixed: they are to continue until the accumula- tion of the sinking fund of 10s.

per year (pay- able in two half-yearly instalments) per £100 advanced is sufficient to amortise the debt.

The duration of the annuity consequently depends on the rate of interest earned by the sinking If this were a uniform rate of 2| per fund.
cent, (the rate of interest payable on the stock by which purchases under the Act of 1903 are financed) the annuities would run for 68£ years; if the rate were a uniform one of 3 per cent.
(the rate of interest payable on the stock by which purchases under the Act of 1909 are, financed) the annuities would run for 65 years; if the rate were a uniform rate of 5 per cent, (the rate of interest yielded by investment in 2$ per cent, stock and 3 per cent, stock at present * The charge for unearned or bonus dividend, which until 1909 was met out of the Guarantee Fund, is now defrayed in the same way as the charge for Excess Stock is really a device to Ai the unearned er bonus dividend increase the attractiveness of the Stock, this treatment as part of the cost of flotation seems appropriate.
11)1 its the run rate The since rules, those actually fresh ad- to variation the sinking in accordance fund payments allowed in for Excess Stock the annuities would sum thus of cash Tbe sinking hind payments for the purpose oí making (by to be annually in the Act of 1909. obtained by rates fixed by the for 48£ years.
is fixed by Treasury the case of annuities the Act of 1903, and at 3 per cent, under pricesj The actual rules at 2\ per cent, under the case of annuities These rates are liable with rates of interest the National Debt Commissioners.

so far earned are practically Treasury are utilised now amount vances.

to a total of nearly A million pounds per annum which is increasing, and the utilisation of this increasing fresh advances the amount raised by the issue of stock.
Consequently, the annual is less than charge it would be it the sinking fund were not utilised in the man- ner mentioned.

is com- sinking pleted to be so utilised, rates than (unless the and conse- money market quently than 68i years and 65 years 7.
The second point is fund payments will cease invested at higher and 3 per cent, changes) for the purpose of making reduces amount) that has with Excess has been considerably wise have been had not many vendors themselves 1909 of securing payment and half vances lions.

price of £92.

siderably to be created.

special priority by accepting in cash stock or half ad- The of all cash.

thus to over 14 mil- The stock so taken was at the minimum arrangements con- that had will cease respectively.
to be noted that less in connection charge therefor it would other- availed in 2f per cent, instead in stock the amount of Excess Stock of the option given land purchase tbe Act of 2| per cent, and can be completely the than amounted annuities effected reduced These Once Stock less the in in Bonus.

at be and from per cent, sell.

On such rate to pay and the purpose the Treasury, of twelve million land purchase, the gulf between assumption to for tbe price 8.
A cash in bonus the 1903 Act pounds was of tenants were landlords that complete provided bridging tbe price at which willing were willing to the LOO millions would sufficient this bonus was payable under land purchase, the rate of twelve statute the on the purchase money advanced, to be con- for a period of five years.
On the ex- tinued piration of that period (1st November, 1908) it was found that 100 millions would not suffice to complete in accordance with their statutory power, reduced to three per cent., twelve the percentage at which rate it would have remained for at least five years, had not a new Act been passed in 1909.

This Act removed the twelve million limit and provided for the payment of a graduated from 0 to 18 per cent., bonus at rates inversely with the number of years' pur- varying chase of the rent.
rate of bonus paid since 1909 has been just over 10 per cent.
It was calculated the capi- tal sum payable as bonus under arrange- ments would, before Land Purchase was com- pleted, pro- vide which, at the then price of stock, it would to issue over 17 millions stock, and, be necessary in the present condition of the money "market, this Eoughly speaking, about 10 millions worth of stock has already been and was voted in the year ended 31st £335,000 some years ago that existing to at least 15 millions—to to provide bonus, sum must The average exceeded.
ranging amount issued be 1917, to pay March, the sinking fund on this stock.

Of this sum £324,659 was actually last of bonus.

in the year ended 31st March necessary in respect the payments to make required interest and Annual Cost of Completed Cases.

in total charges payments 9.
The 1916-7 for the Excess necessary the annual Stock and for the stock to provide a cash issued in respect of the 75 million pounds worth bonus of land sold since 1903 up to the 31st March last were the year for : — (a) For Excess Stock out of the payable Ireland Development Grant payable Commission out of Land Vote ... (b) For Bonus Land Commission payable ... £160,000 ... 268,000 - out of the £428,000 Vote ... 325,000 £753,000 sums are at present votes, but are classified as Irish expenditure These liamentary sury Returns in the 12£ millions Government.
cost completed cases paid out of the par- in the Trea- included and shown as the cost of Irish the annual that in total ad- is 1 per cent, on the to the State of Excess Stock and Bonus It will be noted Part.

II.

Pending Cases.

Excess Stock.

so far.as in cash.

as can be of the pending involve above, Such payment would as described three-quarters cases the Act of 1903, and so require pay- the ex- 10.
About come under ment issue of Excess Stock, cept the vendors have agreed to accept payment wholly or partly in stock.

Moreover, in a certain number of the pending cases under the Act of 1909 payment is required.

in cash As nearly 19 millions about cash will have in order to complete eases.

the pending utilisation the three years, at next of present prices, the exact amount of which would Excess Stock, vary according the issue of 2f per cent, or 3 per cent.
Stock, but tlie annual prices, be certainly not less than £440,000.

for during to involve, large amount tins would seem issue of a for which would, the cash was fund payments to be raised After making of sinking raised by at present allowance judged charge the as Bonus.

the landlords land which the existing 11- As regards law involved is not under have agreed to sell for 3 per cent, stock, the total pur- chase money of which is under five millions, the State in loss, except in respect of bonus.
On the whole twenty-four millions that represent the price of pending cases, bonus has to be paid.

At the present average rate of bonus (10 per cent.

), this would amount to raise this sum would involve, at present prices, an annual charge for interest and sinking fund of over £140,000.

to £2,400,000 cash, and * Liability vances are made in Stock under the Act of 1909. paragraph 5 above.)

for Excess Stock does not arise where ad- (See 102 Annual Cost of completion of pending cases.

12.
12.

Consequently the completion of pending cases would involve a charge to the State for excess stock and bonus which cannot, at present prices, be put at less than £080,000 a year, or nearly 2¿ per cent, per annum on the amount of the advances.

cent stock, had arisen in the financing of the (Cd.

4005 ■Irish Land Act of 1903. of 1908) the Committee examined the different remedies proposed:- In the Keport (1) Issue of consols instead of stock.

(Pre- sent price of consols, 56).


(2) The utilisation of the Sinking Fund of the Part 111.

Nature of charge for Excess Stock and Bonus.

a less regarded the charge is estimated for pending cases 13.

The actual annual charge for Excess Stock in completed cases is £753,000, and and Bonus the same charge than £580,000, making total of at not The bonus was always £1,333,000.
as "a free gift to Ireland," that is, it was to be paid, not by the tax-payers of Great Britain or of but of the United Kingdom as a whole; Ireland, for Excess Stock was similarly and treated in 1909.

Though £160,000 a year of that is met out of the Ireland Development charge Grant, in principle between there that portion of the change and the balance.
As already mentioned, the whole cost of Excess Stock and Bonus is included in the 12^ millions shown in the Treasury Returns as the cost of the Irish Government, an Irish ser- vice but an Imperial is no difference is certainly obligation.

it SCHEDULE IV.

(■wing to the to be paid issue of 2£ per cent, METHOD OF FINANCING FUTURE SALES.

1.
1.

The method adopted in 1903, under which landlords were in cash, to he raised by stock, broke down be- the cause, at which that stock had in respect, of Excess To became Stock to that system would now he impossible.

discount sequently, have far This [s at present nearly 46 per cent.

Con- the State would sum for Excess Stock not increasing to be issued, very discount the cost heavy.

at the existing prices, to pay an annual the purchasers' short, of annuities.

revert 2.
revert 2.

In Land Commission was 1909 the in future (3 per cent.)

authorised in stock the chara.;.'

the purchasers' and this land purchase, in to payment to reveit eases at its necessitated stock annuities lace value.

This in an from 3J to 3^ per cent., extent, checked since tenants could not, without to a certain increase increase, as they purchase of years' \.-t of L909 was that number did same under tne Act of 1903.
The real reason,' how- ever, why purchase was notably checked under the stock was never negotiable at a considerable discount, which vendors feared would become increased the before increase in is now 41 per that cent., the 8 per cent, they discount, has naturally all proceedings.

payment; stopped received except which and S. Some change land purchase terms.

equitable in finance if seems is to be speedily completed on necessary Treasury Inquiry into Finance of Land National Debt.
The objections to those schemes were pointed It is sufficient here out in the Treasury Report.

to say that the present conditions of the national credit seem to put their adoption out of question at present.

but the had, equitable increased to relieve this change pointed out at 5 per cent.

), it was suggested that the in 1908 have been (at present to make already made or applied at (3) The extension of the period for repayment.
No period was fixed in the Act for the duration fund if the sinking oí purchasers' annuities, in 2| per cent, stock, the was uniformly invested annuities would run for 08£ years.

As the sink- in- ing fund payments could they could vested at over 3 per cent, to be invested annuities the Treasury Committee run for a fixed period of 68£ years, and should rate of accumulation should that the charge for Excess Stock.
be utilised it would be It was, however, that as regards hardly ten- advances ant purchasers right to any by the rise produced cially as they would have had longation by any fall in the rate of interest.
fact-, as bas been already dule are utilised sure a uniform terest in cases per cent, rate until all advances been made, accumulate nite prolongation could be effected it would the Acts of 1903-9 have fund will A defi- As a matter of (see Sche- out fund payments of in the case of future espe- to bear any pro- advances which at 2f per cent, for.
an equitable accumulation under pointed 6), sinking the Act of 1903 and in the rate of interest, en- in- at 3 This repayment sales, the Act of 1909. rate of interest.

not help matters in cases under of accumulation will presumably of repayment after which at a higher of repayment the period the period shortening in making paragraph produced sinking continue much- period under least, fresh III., The the the but of of of (4) A reduction of the Sinking Fund from 10s.
in the to 3 per increase from 2f per cent, to 5s.

per £100 and an rate of interest cent, (the the same).

annuitv total thus remaining to this future suggestion As regards cases, viz., that "it involved The same objection, terms on which advances applied already made in principle, noted against (he hist, suggestion, in or to be made respect of advances in pending an altera- had tion of the statutory been made.
it was con- sidered that the reduction of the sinking fund to ¡ per cent., would, whilst at 3 per remained longation of the period of repayment.

salí, however, of the in interest payments that the reduction of the sinking fund to 5s is now quite feasible.

(See paragraph port, interest pro- As a re- rate of earn, the involve 25 of Re- increase an undue rate of sinking cases, cent., the fund can p. 02).

(5) Redeeming the reversion of the Crísh DeJ Purchase.

velopmcnt Grant.

4.


It will be remembered thai a small Corn- appointed by the Chancellor of the at the end of 1907 to inquire Exchequer the difficulties which, owing to the price of 2£ per into This, at best, would have afforded trilling re- lief and was open to objections.

5.

The Treasury Committee recommended the limitation of the amount of cash to be advanced io:¡ for pending cases to tbe amount of cash that the National Debt Commissioners might be in a posi- tion to lend from time to time.
This suggestion was not adopted, and does not seem feasible at the present moment.

6.

Tbe Treasury Committee also suggested that the landlords should, in cases then pending, be given the option of taking stock at the market price of the day (not lower than £92) in lieu of cash or in lieu of half the cash, the inducement to do so being priority.

This suggestion was adopted in the Act of 1909 and has been availed of to a limited extent (see III-, paragraph 7).
* The effect of this Schedule the loss on Excess expedient lias been to reduce Stock (see Schedule III., par.

7, p. 101).

7.

As regards future advances it was suggested by the Treasury Committee that money should be provided by the issue of 3 per cent, stock.

If the stock could not be issued at par, cash ad- vances were to cease, but landlords were to have the option taking the stock at its face value.

The method adopted by Parliament in 1909 in 3 per cent stock at its face value, was pa\.ut.
but, as has already been noted (paragraph 2 the prospect of receiving payment above) in de- preciated stock, liable to further depreciation, land purchase, which is now entirely checked stopped by the low price of the stock.

Financial Problem.

Present •8.

The fundamental are made If advances facts of the situation are that money cannot now be borrowed at less than if at so low a rate, and 5 per cent., that, on the other band, owing to the rise in the rate of interest, a 5s.
per cent, sinking fund will amortise a loan as quickly as would a 10s.

sinking fund to be earned was only 3 when the rate of interest per cent.

if the purchase annuity is to be sufficient to meet all so advanced, rate tbe charges cannot be less than -V, per of tbe purchase the purchaser has to pay cent, percentage as an annuity rent fifteen the rent, teen times not afford even cent.
of his former the last of than four- could purchase, at 5 per the rent, to sell at fourteen the proceeds were than annuities have averaged during if so low.

Unless a greater the advance cannot be more years, which was under tlie monev annuity years' invested in cash, and 75 per cent, and many landlords though the lor terms ready at an formerly any return of 1903, except than a diminution 9.
It may be that under a voluntary loss to the State, might now make to accept system the realisation of the fact that the condition of to the the money market precludes im- land purchase land- mense terms lords more involving as compared to induce with net rental, and might in their pur- tenants a less chase money, rent, than as compared with inevitable the case; formerly was the State must do something that the gulf that will still exist between the terms at which at which income also operate reduction their it seems landlords tenants to sell and are willing are willing to bridge to demand to buy.
those but of 10.

Three schemes have been suggested: — 1.

The first is that landlords should be paid in all charges, mort- that transfer by the ß per cent, L'aL'es.

etc.. of this stock stock, should at its and he discharged face value.

The latter part * The important change made the Act then pending, was, as has been already Stock for Excess by of liability to the parliamentary the Fund (.See .Schedule III., vote par.

3. p. 100).
3. p. 100).

for cases removal Orarantee Commission, regards as noted, the from the the Land to such Th,- tenant so redeemable of stock equal landlords and of this proposal would be helpful only when might be thought unfair purchaser's stock was at a discount, to chargeants.

annuity (Ô per cent, could not be interest and j- less than 54; per cent.

If the sinking fund were per cent sinking fund).

uniformily invested at 5 per cent, interest, tic stock could be redeemed in 62 Veals.
A uniform investment at 5 per cent, could be - provision being made for the redemption at par the every year of an amount to the amount of the annual sinking fund payment, stock lot.

by being Such annual redemption would probably have a slight effect on keeping up the price of tlie stock, unless the annuity to be paid by the tenant is to be a greater proportion of his rent purchaser less than than it has .Vet of 1903, tbe 73 per cent, annuity at ô-j per cut.
could not provide on tlie average quite 14 years' purchase of his rent.

The interest at 5 per cent, on the amount of stock thus provided would in many cases be consider- Tins :,\,\\ landlord's loss might, however, be diminished, if not en- tirely removed, by the payment by tlie State of a suitable bonus.

averaged in all sales under net rental.


less than determined heretofore, the i.e.. the One merit of this scheme is that it recognises the existing facts of the money market, except the rate of interest on Government stock.

that is tending to rise above 5'per cent.

From any rise over the rate of 5 per cent, neither the State nor the tenants would suffer ; the landlords would of 5 suffer, from to per cent, realise stock for the payment of charges.
This scheme of quite State aid in the shape of a bonus, and there is no partially hidden liability in the shape of Excess Stock.

the consequent depreciation it was necessary the necessity so far as recognises frankly stock, 2.

The second suggestion is that the landlord the Government should be paid in cash winch should borrow as cheaply as they could, and for which the tenant should be charged at the rate of only 4.V per cent., bis annuity being at the rate of 4f per cent.
Under this scheme the tenant's receive annuity reduction of the past) would provide the average less than 16 years' purchase (on the assumption that be would of bis rent.

by than landlords and together and the State it could borrow it (which, under This scheme would to some extent follow the as advances would be made tenants would be cash lending the of excess if any were pay- condition in Act of 1903, inasmuch in cash, brought cheaper Act of 1903, Apart stock).
able, of the money market, interest per annum on every £100 cash advanced.

Moreover, to the State would not, as in the last scheme, be clear and definite, but Would increase with of interest.

lose at least A per cent, the the bonus, the State would, involved from in the present increase creation every rate loss the the in is that landlords suggestion to avoid any unnecessary third their purchase money half 3.

The should be paid in cash and half in 3J per cent.
Stock at its face value, and should receive no bonus.

This scheme was de- signed from finance of land purchase, the existing from the rate of the annuity which would con- tinue at the present figure, 3$ per cent.

The landlord should be paid suggestion partly in casli and partly in stock follows the suggestion made by the Treasury Committee of L907 and the option given in the Act of 1909.
It aims at removing the chief difficulty that eon- departure that the fronts a vendor who is paid in a stock standing at a large discount, viz., the difficulty of raising cash to pay off charges.

•centage of bis rent that will be as an an- r_,able nuity under the automatic system by each purchaser 104 it the cash of at latter, for half assuming the current instead in another way, Under this scheme State aid takes the form the purchase money of providing at S{ per cent, rate.
for every £100 of To put purchase money landlord would receive £50 in 3J per cent, stock and £50 in cash.

To raise to issue £78 the State would have the stock would that 3^ per cent, stock, stand at 64, the figure indicated by present rates.
at 3i per cent, would annuity As the fund on only £100 pay and sinking the in respect of every £100 stock, and to bear the interest of purchase money, have This scheme would sinking be the most costly the cost, as in the second case, would be liable with each fund on £28 stock.

the State would, tenant's interest rate of interest.

for the State, increase in the and to i SCHEDULE V. The following tables show for each county: — (I.)
In the case of " first term " rents, i.e., rents fixed prior to 14th August, 1896: (II.)

the case of " second In between fixed i.e., 1896, and 14th August, 1911 : rents rents, term " 14th August.

(III.)

In the case of " third term " rents, rents fixed after 14th August, 1911 : i.e., annuity 2.

The number of years* purchase of the rent that will be provided by each tenant purchaser's 3.
The rate of bonus the scale that will be payable recommended; receivable 4. llii- purchase money by land- lords in 5 per cent, stock per £100 of rental under ; ; 5.

The amount of the bonus per £100 of rental ; 6.

The total income receivable by landlords the the purchase money (at 5 per cent.)

per £100 of and from bonus rental.


It will be noted that in each county 18 per cent, the rate of bonus payable in the case of " first 16 per in 7 counties, in 13 counties, is 18 per cent, term " rents; cent, and 12 per cent, in 5 counties term " rents; 10 per cent, 14 per cent, second counties, cent, in 8 counties in 21 counties, in the case of " third in 8 counties, in the case of in 4 and 8 per term " and 12 per cent, .

It will be noted that in.


the descending receivable by landlords; the effect of the bonus order of the that, in each table the counties in- total and in some is to give the land- land- a larger number in the latter county result, if considered could be avoided only by graduat- is given This a larger county, income though than the in one county in another are given come cases, lord lord of years' than in the objectionable, ing the bonus, years' or half-years' ing to much smaller purchase former.
not according purchase fractions.

to the number of given, but accord- TABLK I.

RENTS FJXED BEFORE 14th AUGUST, 1896, (FIRST TERM RENTS), No.
Percentage of payable rent !>y Purchaser Kildare Londonderry Wicklow Dublin Heath Tyrone Donegal Wexford Antrim Kilkenny Carlo w Down King's Sligo Westmeath Tippèrary, Armagh Cavan Fermanagh Loutfi Roscommon Waterford Moiiaghan Gal way Tlpperary, Longford Mayo Limerick Leitrim Cork Clare S. N 1405 14-00 13-94 13-86 13-80 13-69 13-62 13-62 13 86 13-56 13-56 13-44 13-44 13-37 13-37 13-37 13-37 13-37 13-31 13-26 13-26 13-20 13-20 13-06 13 01 12-95 I2-95 69-9 69-6 690 69-3 69-3 68-6 (¡8-3 68-0 68 0 66-3 66-3 1.400 1 ..'104 1,386 1,380 1,360 1.362 1,362 1,336 1,356 1,356 1,356 1,356 1.344 1,344 1,337 1,337 1,337 1,337 1.337 1,331 1,326 1,326 1,320 1.320 1,306 1,301 1,295 1,205 1,262 1.262 254-0 252-9 252-0 250-9 249-5 248-4 246-4 245-2 245-2 244-1 244-1 2441 244-1 244-1 241 -9 241 -9 240-7 240-7 240-7 240-7 240-7 239-8 238-7 238-7 237-6 237-6 235-1 234-2 233-1 233-1 227-2 227-2 82-6 82-2 81-S SI -4 so-s 80-4 80-4 80 0 80-0 80 II 800 80-0 7!)..'!
79-3 78-0 78-9 7S-0 78-0 78-0 78-5 78-2 78-2 77 0 77-0 77-1 76-8 76-4 76-4 74-5 74-5 TABLE 11.

RENTS FIXED BETWEEN I I'm AUGUST, 1898, AND 1 Im AUGUST, (111 I.

(SECOND TERM RENTS).
Ferccentcige of " second tes |iscy, rent, l.c I'llivlls 83-6 81-3 82 0 81 0 82 3 82-3 80-3 81-6 78-4 78-4 78-0 14-93 14 1)3 I486 IS 05 I.VI ir, 15 OS 15-05 14-50 14 .."»O 14-50 14-74 14 74 Londonderry Wieklow Antrim Armagh Tyrone Dublin Donegal C'arlow Louth Waterford Fermanagh, Monaghan Kilkenny Cavan Kildare Meath Sligo Kerry Limerick Lratrbll Wexford Rogcomraon King's Longford Mayo Galway Westmeath Tipnerary, N. S. Tipperary, ( 'hire Cork 216-9 188-8 216-0 237-8 211-4 236-8 236-8 210-7 210-7 210-7 2107 201 II 261-0 201 0 23.-) .8 236-8 1 ,.»4.1 1,567 1,567 I .s->2'.l 1,554 1,493 1.4113 1,48(1 1,48C, 1,510 1.48(1 1,480 1,505 I 505 1,605 1,505 1,450 1,450 1,450 1,474 1,474 1,469 1,444 TABLE III.
RENTS FIXED SINCE 14th AUGUST, lull.

(THIRD TERM RENTS).

ReductHj to be fcr.-.'ijtii-.
Of ■ovided by 16-97 18-83 16-80 16-80 16-42 16-70 16-38 16-38 16-38 16-38 16-66 16-63 16-30 16-30 15-98 16-55 16-25 16-26 16-21 16-21 15-92 16-17 1617 16-13 15-81 15-81 16-09 16-06 1606 1606 1602 10-02 1002 13 8 12-3 140 140 140 140 12-5 12-7 14 4 14 4 16 1 13-1 14-7 14-7 14-9 14-9 16-4 15-3 170 17 0 17-7 17-7 20-7 18-4 21 0 21-0 21 0 21 0 18-7 19-0 21-6 21-6 24-2 19-7 22 0 22 0 22-3 22-3 24-6 22-6 22 0 22-0 26-3 25-5 23-3 23 6 23-6 2:ii¡ 23 -9 23-9 23-9 89 ■ I 88-4 88-2 88-2 86-2 87-7 86-0 86 0 86 0 86-0 87-5 87-3 85-6 85-6 83-9 86-9 85-3 85-3 85 1 85 1 83-6 84-9 84-9 84-7 83 0 83 0 84-5 84-3 84-3 84-3 84-1 84-1 841 rccciviil.l« by ].H'T'i .er i'IOn ,,[ "third £ 01 0 90-0 90-7 90-7 90-3 00-2 901 901 00-1 90-1 90 0 80-8 89-6 89-6 89-2 89-2 89 1 88-9 88 0 88-8 88-5 88-5 88-5 1.607 1.683 1.680 1,680 1.042 1,670 1,638 1,638 1,638 1,638 1.666 1.663 1.630 1.630 1,598 1,655 1.625 1.625 1,021 1,621 1.502 1,617 1.617 1,613 1,581 1,581 1,000 I 606 1,600 I.6O0 1.602 1.602 1.602 135-S 134 0 134-4 134-4 164-2 133-6 163-8 163-8 163-8 163-8 133-3 133-0 163-0 162-5 162-5 102-1 162-1 191-0 161-7 161-7 161-3 189-7 189-7 160 0 160-6 160-6 160-6 160-2 160-2 160-2 Londonderry Antrim Down Tyrone Fermanagh .. ... ... ... Cavan Kildare .Meat h Sligo Wicklow Armagh Carlow Queens Longford Dublin Loutfa Waterford Monaghan Kilkenny Galway Wexford Rosoommon ... King's Claro Cork -Mayo ... Westmeath Tipperary, X. Tipperary, S. Kerry LillR'IK'k Leitrim lists to be N.B.—It remembered th,.
percentage rent us an ': that annuity (Col. 3) is the maximum payable, since a purchaser liable for a "third term " relit is in no ease to pay a larger annuity than he would base had to pay if he had not had his rent revised sine,, 14th August, 1911 ; that is.

if his purchase had been based on a second term rent, and not on a third Thus a purchaser in County Londonderry whose rent term rent (see KejKirt.

end ,,f paragraph 28).

has been res i sed since Ulli Aneiist.


101 1. ssill pay whichever "f i bese two .sums be the smaller, viz.

: 89-1 per cent, of that resiscd tent ('I'stlile 111. col. 3) or 83-6 of the rent payable previous to that revision (Table II.

col. 1).

Hence the purchase money and the income receivable by the landlord may be less than in cols.

0 and 8. of a " third payable shown lenu that 02 L08 APPENDIX X.

¡STATEMENT ¡SHOWING!

TUE DECISIONS OF THE CONVENTION ON LORD MACDONNELL'S RESOLUTION.

(I.C.

No, 20.)
(I.C.

No, 20.)

Resolution proposed That the Convention, having considered the of the Prime Minister Idler resolves to adopt the following provisions procedure lo the Chairman.

:— and as for that until shall further by an provided specified i m fitted Parliament, and excise, lie considered consideration the after of such the by question ami decided matters for legislation, namely, control of cus- be Irish I.

The immediate toms postponed the war.


control Parliament of the United Kingdom within seven For of future a. number tioned called fo Kingdom.

years the purpose the United Kingdom Irish of the excise.

propor- shall be the United the question and customs of the Parliament of [reland of the Parliament to the population control of I he conclusion representatives of deciding of Irish peace.

after in composed III.


That on the creation of an Irish Parlia- ment the administration of the Customs and Kxciso services shall l>c entrusted Board by the Imjieria.!

Treasury and half of persons nominated by the Irish Treasury, with a Chair- man appointed by the King.

Among the duties of the Board shall fall of the true Irish Customs and Excise Revenue.

of persons nominated the!


ascertainment to a Oust.s half A no,»I ment proposed (SlR 1ÎKKTKAM Windle) : 'To insert after the words" an Irish Pat liament the following:— 11 and until the question of the ultimate control of the Irish Customs and Excise ser- vices shall have been decided," Carrie'/ by US voles :}4, March (See Division List No.

1).

lo [21 It.

Aiwudinent carried, March Vith.

Ii.

Thai and police reserved ( lovernmenl, sible administration bocome Parliament.
after the administration of Irish during postal the war service to that as provided the cessation these of automatically two subject Irish be the shall Imperial the soon as pos- the shall Irish of hostilities services the to A me ml ment :— Raphoe) ¡iro/iosetl (Tun BlSHOP OF To omit, after " the administration Covern nient," and the word " That .

.

.
.

.

to substitute " the words Imjierial the following Amendment proposed ([.emu Ouanmukl and Browne) : To insert words '"Customs line 2. the word " Irish " before and Excise services" the in Amendment withdrawn.

March ['.ilh.
March ['.ilh.

iul nu ul proposed (Thk AlíCHBlSUOT 01<" Ami Dublin) : — : To omit all the words after the word " decided " anil to substitute the following ; "The Imperial and Irish Coverunienls jointly arrange, shall exigencies, Irish Police and Postal for the unified subject control to Imperial of the the during services Amendment carried by 36 Voles to 33, March 1 ilh.

{See Division List No.

4).


Clause as amended :— Thai, the Imperial and Irish Coveniinentsshall arrange subject the unified control during jointly for Postal services as soon as [Kissihle after the administration lies become Parliament, automatically Imperial exigencies.

lo of the the war.

provided the cessation Irish Police and that of host ¡li- shall t wo services to the Irish of these subject Carried by 37 votes hi 21, March 1 IM.

(Set Division List No.

o). "


The Board of < lustomsand Excise of the United Kingdom include a person or shall persons nominated by the Irish Treasury."
Amendment carried, March VMh, Amendment proponed (Loiil» BIlDLETOX) : To the Clause as amended to add the fol- lowing :— A Joint Exchequer Board, consisting of two members nominated by the Imperial Treasury, and two members nominated by the Irish Treasury, with a Chairman appointed by the King, shall be set up to secure the deter- mination of the true income of Ireland.

Amendment carried, March loth.


Clan» as amended : - 109 the Irish Customs Thal on the creation of an Irish Parliament, and until the question of the ultimate control of services shall have been decided, the Board of Customs and Excise of shall include a person or persons nominated by the Irish Treasury.

the United Kingdom and Excise A.Joint consisting Exchequer Hoard, two members nominated of two tnemlHTs nominated by the Imperial Treasury.
by the Irish and Treasury, with a Chairman appointed hy the King, shall be set up to secure the determina- tion of the income of Ireland.

Carried by :i!)

votes to 'SA.

Marrh \'.»tli.

true (See Division List No.

2).

IV.

That, as soon as may be, a Royal Com- the should the a Free Trade should the mission shall be appointed amount of contribution pay to practicability agreement the Imperial control of its Customs and Excise.
of establishing two the transfer Parliament to determine which Ireland the Empire, the expenses to Ireland countries, between and of Rejected by 44 votes to 21.

March VMh.

(See Division List No.

3).

in resolutions of V. The embodiment the agreements already the Report of the Grand Committee, and the continuance the heads on whicli the of ihi.

discussions Convention has not yet pronounced its opinion.
reached on on Learn given to Lord MaoDonhbll Cbiu-c, so na lo read as follows :— to »mend thü The discussion the Convention in provisionally and of the heads on which of the iu the Grand agreements the Committee, Grand Committee has not yet pronounced its opinion."

reached Clause as amended carried, March VMh.

VI.

The framing of a Joint Report cm subjects re u-hrd.

memo- lias been individual a general agreement or ou which and th.- framing r.md.i on subjects have not been reached.
of joint <m which general agreements Withdrawn, March lath.

APPENDIX XI.

¡STATEMENT SHOWING THE DECISIONS OF CONVENTION ON THE PROVISIONAL CONCLUSIONS OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE.

(I.C.

No.

31.)

I.

The Irish Parliament.


(I) The Irish to consist of the King, an Irish Senate, Parliament and an Irish House of Commons, Am-n-lm- ul ¡ivojiosi'I (|,oi:n OraNMORE ano Browne): To omit substitute of Lords, consisting of Lords Spiritual Temporal the words -mi Irish Senate " and the following words : "a House and Senators."

and Amendment, rejected, March 14í/¿.


Amendment proposed (Lord Londonderry) : :— the words following Parliament or anything To add (2) Notwithstanding the establishment of the in the Irish Coverumont power and authority of the Parliament of the I'nited Kingdom over shall and all persons, every part and muliininished of Ireland Act, the supreme unaffected contained remain matters Ireland tliíiiüs and in thereof.

.

tint iit/no nt eoreied, March IMh.

Clans lo 18.

March \4th.

(See Division List No.

6).


-led by öl votes 2 Powers os the Irish Parliament.

the general power The to Irish Parliament make laws ment of Ireland, restrictions for to have the peace, order, subject to specified in 3 and 4 below.
and good govern- and the exclusions Amendment proposed (Mil, To insert after "provided of the to the Province be referred words authority extend hereafter Area ' and that Bakkie) :— the word " Ireland " the and shall not of Ulster, which may ' The Excluded said Parliament powers to as the Amendment rejected by ~>2 voles to \\\.

March 15th.

(See Division List No.

7).

Clause carried by ~>1 votes to 19, March 15th.

(See Division List No.

8).

3.


Exclusions The laws on the following matters from Power of Irish Parlia- to have no power : Irish Parliament ment.

to make (1) Crown -eel.

2 (I) ).

and succession (See lili I Act ''aeviei/, 15///.

(2) Making of peace and war (including March conduct as neutrals).

(Act sect.

2 (2) ).

( 'arei'd.

Mtireh [:~>th.

(3) The Army \a\ y. and March Carried, 20///.

(4) Treaties cud foreign relations (including See Act sed.

2 (4) extradition), Carried.


[5th, I.-,) Dignities and titles of honour.

(Act March sect.

2 (5) ).

Carried, March loth.

control us regards of harbours (ii; Any necessary for naval and military purposes, and certain powers lighthouses, cables, wireless reference and Naval contingencies.

(See Act sect.

2 (9) ).

terminals, the requirements forces of His Majestj to be settled with .Military in various of the beacons, buoys, to Carriel by 41 voten to 13, March 15ÍA.

(Sei Division List No 9).


lender; ¡egal (7) Coinage: or any change and measures.

the in (Act sect.

2 (III) ).

standard of weights ('arried, March loth.

marks, designs, (8) Trade merchandise marks Htjeehtl bi/ 32 Cotes to 31, Mtireh (S<< 'Division List No.

10).

15th.

(S) Copyright or patent rights.

( 'arried, March \5th.

í 'louse, as a no mied.

carried bt/ 4!> votes to 10.

March 20tk.

(See Division ListNo.2\).

4.

Restriction ment on Matters on Power of Irish Parlia- within its competence.
(1) Prohibition of laws interfering with religious N.B.

equality.

A subsection (Act sect.

3).

should lie framed to legal penalty, disadvantage of religious remain on account still belief.

the under annul any existing or disability Certain Act of 1829.

Carried.

restrictions March [5th.

Amendment propose!

(Mr. Barrie) :— To add subhead (2) as follows :—- (2) Special provision the position of Freemasons.

(Act sect.

43 (1) and (2) ).

protecting (3) Safeguard Amendment carried, March ISA.
College, for Trinity similar to section Universitv Queen's Act.

and 42 of (4) Money Carried, March 15th, bills message.

to be Viceregal founded only on Act section \.~,th.

March 1U (2).

( 'arried, {.

*») Privileges, qualifications, etc.. of mem- to be limited as iu bers of Irish Parliament Act.

(sect.

12).

( 'arried, March 15th, (6) (lights of existing Irish Officers to bo safeguarded.

(Act sects.

32-7).

Carried, March [5th.

5.


Constitutional Clause, as amended, carried by 4i¡ votes to I"1 March 15(A.

(Set Division List No, II).

Amendments.

Section 9 (4) of the Act to appK to the House of Commons with the substitution of "ten years" for "three The constitution of the Senate to be years ' i to iltcration after fen years, provided the subji Bill i ; agreed to \,\ two-thirds of the total Dumber of members of both Mouses sitting lo Carried by 4C votes to lô.

March iHth.
March iHth.

(Set'Division List No.

12).

11 Authority.

The executive fi, Exkot'tive to continue vested in the King.

power in Ireland but exercisahle through the Lord Lieutenant on the advice of an Irish Executive Committee in tin- manner set out in Act.

(sect.

4).

Carried by 45 votes to lö.

March 15th.

(See Division List No.

13).

of Irish Parliament.

7.

Dissolution The Irish Parliament to he summoned, prorogued., and dissolved as set out.

in Act.

(sect.
in Act.

(sect.

6), S. Assent Carried l>u A7> rotix !,, |.y March (See Division Li.-t No.

13).

Poyal assent to Bills.

\:,lh.

to be given the or withheld as set out in Act (sect.

7) with substitution "for " postponement" of •■ reservation Carried hg 4ö votes to 15.

March (See Division List No.

13).

lfi//r !1 Constitution of the Senate.
(1) Lord Chancellor (2) Four Archbishops Roman (3) Two Archbishops Church (4) A Representative Catholic ... ... 1 or Bishops Church or Bishops of Uu- ... 4 of the of Ireland ... ... 2 of the General Assembly ... ... ... 1 (5) The Lord Mayors of Dublin, Belfast, and Cork ... ... ... 3 (ft) Peers resident in Ireland, by Peers resident elected in Ireland... lö (7) Nominated Irish by Lord Lieutenant :— Privy two years' Representatives Councillors standing of at Ica-l ... of learned institu- ... 8 tions Other persons (S) Bepresentatives ... ... Industry (0) Representatives ... each Province ..." ... ... 3 ... 4 of Commerce and ... of Labour, one for ... ... 4 ... 15 60 On the disappearance in the House of Commons made Amendment the numbers proposed to of any nominated element shall be an addition of the Senate.
appointment (Ai.df.rman McCarRON) That all members of the Senate is provided I.

2, 3, and 4, be elected the members :— tho-e except for by Sub- whose the same on heads of the House franchise of Commons may be elected.

Members to hold office for ten years.

elected on which Ann in!

men!

rejected by ôl votes to 5, March 2(1//'.

(See Division fist Nn 22).

proposed two from representatives each Province the County the (.Mu.

Lcnoon) be added of :— to Amendment That Councils Senate.

Amendment carried.
Amendment carried.

March 20//'.

Amendment Dublin) (Tin: ARCHBISHOP OF proposed :— the number of Irish Privy Councillors (7) be reduced from 8 to 4.

Amendment carried, March 20th.

That in Subhead Atf mimen!

¡imposed (Mr. McCarroN) That Sub head (il) be deleted.

March Aimndmenl ejected, : 20//;.

< lause, as amended, carried ht/ 48 votes to 10.

March20th.

{Set Division List No.

24).

10.

Constitution (1) The ordinary House of Common's of the House of Commons elected members of th© shall number 160.
Carried, March 20//*.

(2) The university of Dublin, the Cm and the National of Belfast versitv shall each return of each I'm versify Carried.

two members.

shall form March 20th.

University The graduates the constituency.

(3) Special representation shall be given and applying and industrial towns smaller to urban the lower electora!
quota the mended committee, rest of the country the by than on Electoral areas to by grouping them that applicable lines Systems a. to recom- Sub- the Amendment Dublin) ¡iropnsnl (Tiik Archbishop of :— To omit all the words after "country " in line 3.

Am< /id nant Sid- 20//;.

failli, carried.

us aim March 20//,.

tided, tarried March (4) The principle the with of Proportional single Repre- sentation, vote, shall be observed wherever a constituency returns (2) )■ three or more members.
transferable (Act sect.

U Carrifd bg -11 voles to 22, March (See Division List No.

25).

21*/.

accept nf Ciunmons (.

">) The Convention the principle that forty pir cent, of the membership of the shall House to 1'nionists.
that summoned 40 Lieutenant, In pursuance for a period of It» years the Irish House of Commons by Lord nominated that there shall be be guaranteed members of this, suggest they and the to (a) 20 of these members shall be Domi- interests nated with a view to the due representation adequately of represented of Leinster, Munster and Connaught, otheiwise the provinces not in (b) 20 members to the a view commercial and shall be r.< minated with of fuller representation industrial interests.
Aim ad meat proposed To omit (Tu m Bisiior the words "" in pursuance Connaught " and to substitute In pursuance of this, they or Bachot.)

: .

.

.

the following ; for that, to the suggest House there shall be summoned a period, of Commons Irish nominated by the Lord Lieutenant, with a view not otherwise provinces of Leinster, Munster, naught.

interests in the and Con- of represented representation 20 members the due adequately to Amendment carried.

March 2Ls7.
March 2Ls7.

Amendment proposed (Mr, Whttley) :— That for Sub-head (9) be substituted the] Aim ml nn nl propt'sed (THK BlSHOP OF RaFHOK) To omit para, (b) and to substitute : the following :— following :— seven of Labour: Ib-piesentativcs for the Province of Lister, three each for the Province-' of Leinster the Province .Munster, and lö.

Amendment rejectetl t.g .

"i I votes to 5, March 20ÍA.

(Set Division Cist No.

23).


and of Connalight two for and that 20 additional members shall be to represent in- elected by Ulster constituencies, commercial, terests and agricultural industrial, .

I tm ml an nl cat-nii!.

Suit load, as amended carried Maul, h 21-7, Man 21 st. Il (fi) The nation structions the King.

shall be exercised l>)id Lieutenant's power of nomi- in- to any that may be given by His Majesty subject Carried.

March 21sf.

(7) The nominated members in whole or in part after HI years.
shall disappear Amendment ¡imposed To substitute :— words (The Earl for " Hi years " the following of Mayo) :- *' 15 years, and not earlier, notwithstanding anything contained in Clause 5."

carried.

March 21-s7 as amended, carried.

March Amendment Sub-head, 2[st. New sub-head (8) proposed as below (The Bishop op Raphoe) : — (8) The extra representation in Ulster not to cease except fourths majority gether.
oil an adverse decision of both Houses by a three- to- sitting Carried bg 27 votes March (See Division List No.

26).

to 20.

21-7, (9) The House of Commons shall continue for .

"» years unless previously 2\sl Carried.

March dissolved.

(U)) Nominated, members seats on a dissolution renomination.

nominated nation.

members Any shall vacate but shall be eligible their for the shall be filled by nomi- vacancy among i 'arried.

March 2lst, Clause, as amended, carried by 45 votes to 20.
(See Division List'No.

27).

11.

Money Biles.

(I ) Money bills to originate only amended in the House of Commons, b\ the Senate (see Ad to be and not sect.

10).

to have power (2) The Senate is.

however, to bring about a joint sitting over money bills in the same of Par!

aillent.

to have power amend- the House of Commons may accept to suggest session (3) The Senate ments, which or reject as it pleases.

Amendment proposed (Mu.

McCarron) :— To omit Sub-heads (2) and (Ii).


Amendment earriei/ Clause rejected, March 2lst.

by 4~> rotes to 22.

March 2lsi.

(See Division List No.

28).

Houses.

ri:tween 12.

Disagreement between two Houses agreements by joint sittings the proviso that lull such joint sitting shall be held in the same session as set out if the Senate in Act section Dis- to be solved I I, with to pass a Money the fail iff Parliament.
Carried representatives of Commons, Irish House of formed consisting of members nominated The to the number to the Commons House of the Imperial Par- to liament the the Election numbers Panel shall be on the principle of Proportional Representation."

shall of each to be elected projHirtinnate and be Ana ltd ment carried by 42 voles to 24.

March 2\st.

(See Division List No.

29).

Amendment Browne) proposed (Lorn.


Oranmore :— the following Irish :— representation and in the House of as at present Unless and the be remodelled, when shall be reconsidered by the Imperial To add The Lords until matter and Irish Parliaments.

shall continue that Chamber Amendment carried.

March 21*i.

Amendment proposed (Mr. McCarron) :— the Words "following manner" After the words " A Panel ....

Representation " and to substitute to Pro- :— franchise of the established Act."
People by the omit portional the following the Representation " by Amendment rejected h>¡ 44 votes to 22.

March 21.*/.

(See Division List No 3D).

carried as amended, by 44 voles to 22.

March 2\sf.

(See Division List ('in¡ist-, No.

31 j.

An Irish exchequer 14.

Finance, fund and Aiiditor-Ceneral dated and an troller to he appointed out in Act (section 14 (1) and section 21).
to he established and consoli- Irish Con- as set should If necessary, taxes at present in Ireland to be levied and collected until ment otherwise it leviable decides.

!

*• declared that all should continue the Irish Parlia- The necessary tween Great Britain transition adjustments and be made.

of Ireland should revenue as be- the during period Carriol bi¡ öl votes to IS.

March (Sec Division List No, 32).

of Powers the Irish Par- 2U7.

15.

Financial liament.


(1) Until of the question of Irish Customs the the nit ¡mate control and Excise services shall have been decided, the revenue due from Customs to as the Joint Exchequer Board.

determined shall and Excise Exchequer.

Ireland Irish by the be |iaid into (2) All branches of taxation, Customs and Excise, shall lie under of the Irish Parliament.

other than the control by 45 votes to 22.

March (See Division List No.

28).


2 U7, Amendment proposed (Lord Midleton):— After '• .Joint Exchequer Hoard " in Sub- 13.

Representation lie- in Parliament of the ['nited Kingdom presentation to continue.

to have the right of del i lie rating and voting on all matters.

at Westminster.

representatives Irish Any Amendment the add proposed following (Vt-seorvr :— .Midleton).
To ■■ Port y two Irish representatives shall be to the Commons House of the Parlia- elected ment of the United Kingdom in the following manner "A be formed in each of the four Provinces the Ireland, members of that Province in the Irish House and one other of Commons, shall be :— Panel shall of consisting panel of head (1} to insert the following after deduction of the agreed bution to Imperial expenditure.

: Irish contri- Amendment rejected bi/ 3(1 vote* to 31, Match 22nd.

(Set Division List No.

33).


< lause carried by 3S votes lo 3(1, March 22ml.

(Su Division List No.

34).

such a contribution Hi.

Imperial Contribution.

is approved.

Carried, March 2l.s7.

The principle of 17.

Land Purchase.

The Convention accept the recommendations oftlie Subcommittee on Land Purchase Carried, March 22nd.

113 18.

Judicial Power, The following provisions of the Government of Ireland Act to be adopted :- (a) Safeguarding position of existing Irish Judges (see.

32).
32).

(b) Leaving appointment the Irish Government of iulnre .fudges to and their re- (e) Transferring both Houses of Pail, ohm ' ( ee.

27).

appeals fn>n, the House of Lords to the Judicial Committee.

strengthened by [rish -le tgoa (sec 28) - .

m ti,,.

Court.

right.

Of um (Sec.

28 (4) and aec 30 'I 2) |.

as to referen-,' of validity to Judicial Committee (see see.

29).

of questions (d) Extending (e) Provision The Lord Chanc« not to be a political "tidment proposer!
(Mr. Powell) the Convention :— are of opinion by functions of judicial That exercise magistrates that the unpaid should Resolved, to pass cease.

consideration, from lite qaesiiud ¡tndi-r bg 32 votes to 31.

2-nd.

(See Division List Nc I 111 UM.

tes to 17, March firm List No.

3G).

The Lord Lieutenant officer.

other he He shall hold office ■ the Lords Justices disqualification -.

'• i;-;.M!-, His salary shall be suffi- open to men of moderate to 17, March n Lût No.

37).

19.

Lord Lieutenant.


to be a political not shall be subject to a (as in Act section 31 ) oient to throw the po / 'la asi 20.

Civil Servi« to to be appointed tions for admission The practice of ' itobofolloi The Commission to consist of an independent Chairman of outstanding position in Irish publie life and two colleagues, one of whom would repre- sent unionist interests, The Commission to prepare a scheme for appointments Parliament service, and no appointments the scheme is approved.
and lay before to the public to be made before The Commission to financial scales of salary.

circumstances take into of Ireland account the in suggesting To substitute the following :— (Sir Bertra Wi There shall be a Civil Servi iSisting of represi .shall vhich fo: Mate .h-;.'..

in »ointments imendat-ions ic, shall ^ing of Linding position as be prepared an the public to scales by a independent in Irish one of whom colleagues, t'.i.st interests.
to positions this Commission shall be made has been oí sala Chairman public shah of outst two represent Unie life, and No appointments the scheme before app-o oí Amendment carried.

March 22nd.

Clause, as amended, carried by 42 votes to 18, March.

22nd.

List No.

38).

(See Division 21.

Deferring certain taking Arrangements over to be made Irish to permit to defer to Old Age Pen- Insurance, Labour Exchanges, Post Friendly if they so desire, the services relating Banks, Savings and Services.
the Irish Government, taking over sions, National Office Trustee Societies.

Clause carried by 43 votes to 18, March 22nd.

(See Division List No.

39).

Ill APPENDIX XII.

STATEMENT SHOWING THE DECISIONS OP THE CONVENTION' UPON THE REPORT OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE OX DEFENCE AND POLICE (I.C.

No.

30.)

The Convention considered and voted Report follows (see pp.

117-35 ) in five :— on sections the as I.

The preliminary matter graphs entitled " Naval Defence."
paragraphs were as follows and the : - two para- These Naval Defence.

the Committee to Naval defence, the Admiralty's Ireland must connected with Great be considered view that for as and be by one force under Britain, therefore, In regard accept unreservedly purpose this integrally defence must-, one control.

It seems to us unnecessary in the Admiralty's Memorandum the details except discussed some of the matters to say touched on might well he the subject of agreement and between Irish Governments.
in our opinion to go into Imperial that the Adopted.

Military Defence.

to the military prnblens, the Com- that under any scheme of military the historical regular in that army, tho past, Irish regiments will be a Ireland will be, as that a valuable the facilities which it offers for to be of the of all arms will continue approval the general recruiting utilised with assume regard In mittee defence part of the it has been ground, and training largely Irish public.
The question troops engaged of raising a local Territorial Force and Major- necessarily General Sir Charles Cali well was deputed by the dated December War Office, 19th, 1917, to give us assistance on the military matters involved.

attention, in a letter our The creation type must be considered territorial the general scheme of defence of the British of an Irish Defence Force of the to Isles.
in relation It is impossible, as we think, either for the establishment at present for the Convention in principio question must condit largely depend in England therefore, upon the question the following of an ions submit or in of such a on and as Irish That corresponding to formulate detail any scheme Force.

the Scotland.

our Defence conclusions Force We, :— (I).


That, at some time it is desirable that should provide Ireland to serve in any part of the I'nited Kingdom during a local force peace, and in Ireland during (2).

That we believe regard having social conditions, of men divisions, Ireland to could contribute, its population a sufficient two number complete arid to maintain (3).
That the character of the organisation and conditions of service cannot be determined until the character of Homo the war is decided, Defence Forces after as we are advised, a matter which, will be uncertain until after the war, and will depend on the character of the peace (4).

That when and other this matter circumstances.


of and Irish should be reported tho of service comes under the strength and organi- lis Force, consideration, sation conditions on by a Joint Committee on Defenecí consisting Oovernment with military by advisers them, and that the whole matter should two Govern- bo decided between ments.

of the Imperial the Irish Government.

of.members and nominated the (')).


That any such force, by the as part reckoned made by Ireland Irish Government, if raised and paid be should the contribution of to common Imperial (ti).

That" in time of war or imminence of war in all military the United Kingdom must pass under the absolute control of the Imperial Authorities.

forces and organisations Ann.

ml ment proposed (Colonel Wallace):— substitute the whole Section To omit and the following :— " The question is a, matter Ireland Government."
of the mi'itary exclusively defence of for the Imperial Amendment rejected by 4M votes (Sie Division List No.

14).

to 22.

Amendment proposed (Sut William To omit all the words after end of Sub-section (1 ).

Coulding) " war " at :— the Section adopted bg 3s mft.s lo 23.

(See Division List No.

15).

section entitled III.

The "The question of Con- scription," which was as follows :— The Question of Conscription.
We have already submitted it will be convenient aspect of Conscription of a separate to reproduce an Interim Report.

here, on in the event, "Parliament Irish which the practical of the establishment and Executive.
The report was as follow.- : "29th November, 1917. ming thai a scheme of self-govern- ment for Ireland be adopted, including the establishment of an Irish Parliament and an responsible Irish Government thereto, we think if would in practice that impose be of com- to impossible pulsory service in Ireland without the assent and co-operation of (he Irish Parliament.
Executive a system 115 islands, " As to whether, as an abstract proposition, it would be desirable, by vesting these powers in the Imperial Parliament, to secure united and simultaneous action in is, we both for us to express an opinion, as we think it would be impracticable to enforce such a demand, of except with the Irish Parliament, without which the action and the Executive could not be secured.
in this direction think, unnecessary the'approval co-operation effectively efficient of it " Indeed, it skeins to us a direct consequence of the creation of an Irish Parliament that character must any measure be submitted to the Irish Parliament before it could be enforced on Ireland."

this of the Police should be controlled by The paragraphs Irish Government.

this that the containing marked by asterisks.

recommendation weite Amendment moved (Mr, Barrie):— b\ the That passages marked an.
a,-h ri-k .should be omitted and the 1'escrvation of the Duke of Abercorn substituted.
(This Reser- vation was as follows :—" I am of opinion that the Royal Irish Constabulary and the Dublin Metropolitan Police should both remain services of the Imperial Government longer years, may Imperial for at least six the period that deter- otherwise for any Government the control as reserved under and the fact We desire to emphasise and question, deals only with one aspect important in the time the possibilities report difficult, were not able to go into common War Council of the or as to the effect of there being hereafter Constitution for the British Isles.
the above that this very of that we and then at our disposal of joint action by a two Governments, a Federal Amendment moved (Sir William Goulding) :— To omit the whole section.

Amendment rejected by -ÍH votes to 29.

Section adopted.

(See Division List No.

16).

IV.

Part II.

of the Report, (i; Police ,:), in which by was of the Sub-Committee, the principal a majority recommendation, passed Ammdment rejected bg 57 votes to 18.

(See Division List No.

17).

Part II.


of the Report adopted by 57 votes to 18.

(See Division List No.

18).

".

The Supplementary Report, which inter alia that i imperial Control of Police purposes be re- "recognises during should for administrative tained it may be essential in all pa.i is of the British Isles."

I i that Adopted by 57 votes to 18.

(»See Divi- sion List No.

19).

The whole Report was without amendment, to 17, March \\)th.

sion List No 20).
sion List No 20).

then adopted, by 54 votes (See Divi- P 2 116 APPENDIX XIII.

STATEMENT SHOWING THE DECISION OF THE CONVENTION UPON THE REPORT OF THE SUB-COMMITTED OX LAXO PURCHASE.

(I.C.ÄÖJ.

(I.C.

Xo.

32).

'1 he Convention considered the following motion : - "That the Report of the Sub-Committee on to as referred their Report, on the amendments that and be approved, Land Purchase them amended, be adopted.''

standar!
standar!

to an economic dential holdings within their area, as well among the sons of as for distribution tenant farmers.''

Amendment rejected by 35 voles !■> 21.

(See Division List No.

40).

Amend me id proponed- (.Mi;.
Fit/aiibiíun) :—- To add aftor the word 'l adopted " the following :— that desire their opinion should acquisition to place on " but the Convention the Estates Com- record the missioners land, compulsory the not only Report, but also for the following purposes, be given power of untenanted suggested the purposes for for in Amendment proposed (Mr. Lundon) ;— To add following : — after the word " adopte,1 " the desire to placo on the Convention their opinion that on the transfer in the area the rights tlie to Commis fishing the Congested Districts Board or " but record of untenanted of Estates (including tenants."
land, whether "i^g go should rights) ings Fur relief of congestion the already !

in tenant purchasers, vested or ;u process among hold- of being and for raising Amendment rejected bg 35 votes to 27.

(See Division List No.

41).

Motion carried and Report adopted unani- (March mously.

22nd).

APPENDIX XIV.

OUTLINE OF SCHEME OF IRISH GOVERNMENT BASED OX THE AMENDlNGj BILL, 1914.

1.

The Government not apply called "The Excluded Area ").
the Province to ot Ireland Act, 1914, shall (hereinafter of Ulster be exercised, County Courts, by His Majesty.

both in exclusively the Supreme Court and in by Judges appointed 2.

The Executive the direction be administered in the Excluded Area shall be of a Secretary and through and advice as His Majesty, of by Order of State, may to time, such officers and of State, such officers on the institute under shall departments such Secretary in Council from departments in the Excluded Area exclusively.
time to be entrusted with administration employed 0.

Civil Servants in such employment, the exclusively Excluded Area at the passing of the Act shall be and the Civil continued the Excluded Service Committee so exclusively Area such Civil employe,1 as tliev Excluded shall allot Servants think the requirements of the demand, Area not to in 3.

The representation Imperial the the Representation Parliament, of the Excluded Ana shall be as provided of the People Act, 1917. in by to which all taxes 4.
The cost of Government in the Excluded to be defrayed by the Imperial in the Excluded Area shall continue Exchequer, Area shall continue amount Services by the Joint Exchequer Board set up by that Act, the cost of Irish to be ascertained shall be deducted under from the Act of 1914. to be paid.

A proportionate of serving the R.I.C.

7.

All members into a, separate Force and shall be continued the Excluded Area at the passing of the Act shall be formed in employment Force shall Excluded Area.
in the Excluded Area, and in the be recruited this the future for in 8.

Such safeguards which tlie Southern Unionists regard as necessary Ulster Unionist Representatives.

shall have the support of the HUGH T. BARRIE, 5.

Judicial power in the Excluded Area shall \2lh March, 1918.

117 APPENDIX XV.

REPORT OF THE SUB-COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE AND POLICE TO THE GRAND COMMITTEE, (I.C.

No, 27.)

witnesses and In regard Naval Defence.


The following are the terms of Reference to ommittee : — To consider— (a) What powers of local defence to an Irish the requirements might Government be of Im- delegated delegated with perial Defence.

(6) The future and Dublin Metropolitan of the Poyal Irish Constabulary Police.

being Earl of Desart Capt.

of Abercorn, and Mr.

The members Duke man), Doran, Capt.

man to have power bers in consultation the Sub-Committee.
to have power to examine take evidence.

(Chair- Gwynn, The Chair- to add additional mem- of with the Chairman The Sub-Committee Powell.

Subsequently the following letter was addressed to the Sub-Committee: — Irish Convention, 21th November, 1917.

Secretary, Sub-Committee The Sub-Committee on Defence.

of Nine reserved Head consideration, for further of- the Sub-Committee 3 (3) (a) and (b) of the Bishop of Raphoe's the pending Scheme Report on Defence.
Head 3 (3) (a) provided that the consent of for the Conscription.

to make sure would their deliberations.

The Chairman the Sub-Committee this point within on Defence the scope of required was asked that include Irish Parliament should be R. V. VERNON.

PART 1.—DEFENCE.

extended The first head of reference as it has been covers mittee, of Conscription, the defence of Great Britain \ >rov i sion mili tary the whole ground and for to the Sub-Com- to the question as to and purpose.
Isles it is deemed these considerations must be taken in devising a scheme of self-govern- Ireland being an outpost of the British owing to its geographical position, essential into account ment Ireland, that that for Ireland.
It was necessary, therefore, to obtain from the Admiralty and from the Army Council their views as to the strategic necessities of the situ- together with information ation, as to the extent of the control which they desired to be reserved to the Imperial Authorities and parts of shipping, sites Eor barracks and forts,-or other defensive works; also as to what powers should in war or emergency (e.g., imminence of war) be reserved to the Imperial Government in respect of Cus- toms, Telephones, Telegraphs, Wireless and Cable Services, or of the right to requisition over harbours foreshore, crown lands, the the Admiralty We accordinglv private property, whether ships, lands, buildings, or moveable goods, or of the control of aliens.
and requested the War Office, in a letter dated November 6th, the 1917, to furnish us with points mentioned.

it was not until randum to us by the Admiralty with an intimation two naval give evidence before there was no question ■: ra - ag an Defence Force, we did not consider the attendance to request and a memo- to Naval matters was supplied that to do so, As lush Naval it necessary their views on followed, that if required the Bub-Committee, oi these officers.
officers would, Some delay 21st, 1918, in regard January therefore, connected Ireland must the Admiralty's to Naval defence, with Great Britain, the Committee that view as be considered ac- for in- and be by one force under cept unreservedly this purpose tegrally defence must, une control.

It seems tails discussed lo say except the touched on might well be the subject of matters Irish agreement i oivcrnments.
in the Admiralty's that Memorandum, of to us unnecessary in our opinion to go into the de- Imperial between some and the Military Defence.

the historical regard assume In mittee defence part of the regular it has been in ground, and that training largely utilised with Irish public.
troops io the military problems, that under any scheme Irish the Com- of military regiments will be a Ireland will be, as that army, the past, a valuable the facilities which of all arms will continue approval the general recruiting it offers for to be of the The question of raisin- our engaged Sir Charles Callwell was deputed dated December letter in a to give us assistance a local Territorial attention, force and Major- the 19th, on the military mat- by necessarily General War Office, 1917, ters involved.
The creation of an Irish Defence Force of the to type must be considered in relation scheme of defence of the British territorial the general Isles.

a Force.

Tt is impossible, tion to formulate or in detail any scheme such pend on the corresponding and Scotland.
We, ing as our conclusions Irish Defence Force:— That as we think, at present for either the Conven- in principle of de- for the establishment largely in England the follow- of an question must conditions submit the question therefore, upon (1) That at some time it is desirable that Ire- land should provide a local force to serve in anv part during peace, in Ireland of the United Kingdom during war.

and HS PART II.—POLICE.


(2) That we believe Ireland could contribute, (3) That to the character of the organisation regard having social conditions, men to maintain its population and a sufficient number of two complete divisions.
and of service cannot be deter- the character of Home De- a as we are advised, will and of the conditions mined until fence Forces after matter which, be uncertain until will depend on peace and other circumstances this matter the character is decided, tbe war, the war after comes under con- and organisation the strength (4) That when sideration, of the of sendee Joint Committee of members and the advisers the whole matter tween Irish Force and its conditions should be reported on by a on Defence consisting of the Imperial Government with military thai and be- be decided Irish Government nominated by should them, the two Governments.
(5) That any such force, Irish the reckoned made by Ireland Government, as part of if raised and paid by be should the contribution Imperial to common (G) That forces ¡n lime of war or imminence of war all military in the United Kingdom must pass under Imperial the Authorities.

and organisations absolute control tbe of The Question of Conscription.
an Interim submitted We have already it will be convenient the establishment aspect of Conscription of a separate lie port, to reproduce here, on in the event Irish Parlia- and Executive.

The report was as fol- which the practical of ment lows :— 29th November, 1917. "
Assuming for Ireland a scheme be adopted, that of s< II including of an Executive Irish Parliament nient establishment Irish responsible thereto, we think it would in practice to impose a system of compul- be impossible in sory service assent and co-operation freland without of tbe Government that Irish Parliament.

tbe.
tbe.

and an the " As to whether, as an abstract it woidd be desirable, by vesting in the and simultaneous Imperial Parliament, action it is, we think, islands, to express an opinion, it would be impracticable such a demand, except with proposi- these to secure in this direc- unneces- as we effectively the ¡u both for us tion, jiowers united tion sary think to enforce approval the which of the Executive of the action Parliament Irish and efficient without co-operation could not be secured.
to us a direct " Indeed, it seems of the creation that any measure be submitted to it could be enforced on Ireland."

conse- of an Irish Parlia- of this character Parliament Irish tlie quence ment must before that tbe fact We desire to emphasise the above report deals only with one aspect of this very difficult and important and that we were not able in the time then at our disposal to by a com- go into mon War Council or as tn the effect, of there a Federal Constitution for tbe British Isles.
two Governments, being hereafter the possibilities of joint action question, of the The second head of our reference is concerned with the future of the Royal Irish Constabulary The first and the Dublin Metropolitan Police.
and the governing question two the existing Police forces in Ireland should be placed under the control of an Irish Government, or in the case of tlie Royal should, Irish Con- stabulary under the Government of Ireland Act of 1914,' be a reserved force to be under the Im- perial Government for a fixed period.
is whether as independent If an Irish Parliament and Government should he created with large powers of internal govern- and wide ment, an specifi-+ powers of taxation, the control of call\ Police would pioduce much to continuous effort on the pari of the Irish Govern- ment to except froti*i its functions to get rid of the exception.
friction and to us that it appears Exchequer lead conditions of tlie control of that a good many regard with to an Irish Govern- fail in England to recognise and Ireland in existing the entrusting We cannot people both apprehension ment police, but we think that might at least be modified that all dismissal tlie Crown.
Irish police by the Imperial Government little don would have Further we think of appointment, in non-political were vested [lowers that reality or effective these apprehensions if it were provided* promotion Officers control and of of the in Lon- force.
intervene laws passed by it might dis- of administra- Imperial of them, (¡ovcrmnent could not out the Police carrying however much in matters The to prevent an Irish Parliament, and approve tion and detail British Ministers would tice be dependent representatives land ride questions would be very unlikely and guidance, while and for information Irish Ministers the administration on their of local Irish Parliament is a course to over- on the} in prac- in Ire- % We have therefore if tlie principle that, ment and Government an attribute of internal normal the order conditions Irish Government.
of Government and could hardly of a separate be conceded, the conclusion Irish Parlia- so essential as the preservation the enforcement be withheld of law in from ^ to adopt.

to come In case of any serious disturbance or outbreak the security involving the Military Imperial Government would be available action as might be necessary.
forces of the Crown under and unity of the Realm, for such tbe * that Irish Government, While for the above reasons we think the control of the Irish Police should be entrusted it is a corollary of our to the those recommendation la- the direct authority of that Government, under apart from other reasons connected with adminis- tration and efficiency which in our opinion make this desirable and to which we shall refer later on in this report.
should forces that by the Inspector- We have been furnished General of the Royal Irish Constabulary and by tbe Chief Commissioner of the Dublin Metro- politan Police with memoranda the con- stitution forces, and both these gentlemen have been good enough and givi evidence before Their memoranda, with a note of their oral evidence, are annexed hereto [Schedules the Sub-Committee and administration to attend respective of their A. and B.]

as it.
as it.

t,, We desire to make the following observations on fbesc documents.

«The paragraphs asterisked are dissented from hy the Duke of Abercorn.

See Ids Reserva 119 POYAL IRISH CONSTABULARY Strength of Force.

Advantages of Centbalised Control.

to as stated suggestion to make Wi' ha\e no bis views to question strength of the Force.

has reason may enable changes to be effected, but Eoreeasti I, and must be dealt with from the Force.
responsible to time the The Inspector-General and we see no conditions to be made and economies these be time at present by those Varying thereon, cannot them.

for Bakkvks—Recruiting.

Similarly, we do not think we can usefully anything cruiting.

conditions a- to Barrack The latter must of the moment.

largeh I accommodation or re- depend on the I On tiiis subject we beg leave to refer Inspector - General to the (See observations Schedule A., pp.

123-4).
123-4).

of the After consideration of these observations, and ot his " conclusions the first nine paragraphs (see p. 125), and after his oral examination to say that we concur on, we are able opinion and formed, he has would be undesirable alteration and control í say i involved Imperial have committee.
transfer Irish Government, by a majority at the in the to recommended to make system time other of the present this there- in the that ib consider any substantial of organisation than would be the from which we the Sub- of control of Pay.

Force under an Irish Government.

The Pay is something less than that of English Police in the industrial districts—higher some ditions rural English and we do not the differ, counties—but think of .

conclusions can be drawn from sons.


Questions consideration from of pay must to time.

time these be open than in con- any useful compari- re- to It should however be borne in mind Royal duties usually These partments Irish in addition performed Constabulary perform to police work, such as are not forces in England.

by police the costs of other De- indirectly reduce of Government.

the that numerous We instance the following: — Agriculture.

Census.

Congested Board of Works.

Districts Board.

.


Weights and Measures Food and Drugs.

Explosives Acts.

Petroleum.

Illicit Distillation?.

Fisheries.

These General the Royal think to comment are summarised (see pp.

124-5), Irish Constabulary, by the Inspector- so far as they affected but we do not for us it would serve any useful purpose in this report.

on them The Ixspeitor-General's Conclusions.


to paragraph With regard Sebe bile A., we assume Boyal Irish Constabulary the funds Government be provided the from the to excess ties.

special of the 'piota that is entrusted 4, col. 2, p. 125 of if the control of the to the Irish for its maintenance will Irish Exchequer, for forces subject local contribution provided in particular in locali- The question of amalgamation Metropolitan stabulary graphs Police with is dealt with in of Schedule A.

(see p. 126).
(see p. 126).

of the Royal the concluding the Dublin Irish Con- para- This may be a matter leads it would be of administrative if experience for consideration at to the advan- time, future some belief that tage and would promote but at present measure, would would be disturbing lead to friction and we think there efficiency is no demand its proposal the Dublin to and confusion.

and economy, for such a time and at this force, Dl'BLIX METbOI'OLlTAN POLICE that, said should, the of for the reasons given !
We consider, pass î suggestion if F borne by sys- in our opinion, Irish Government, same the the This would make Irish Exchequer.

it easier however, there the cost- of this that that is weight, force should in his be We have already force this control the above, under created, tem of administration to the provision and be carried that should * and dismissals political officer.

mean by the approval the Commissioners.


on under it as appointments, is at present, subject promotions, In practice be entrusted to a non- this would probably to him of submissions made time is not for the to consider this amalgamation We also think the reasons given above the question Irish Constabulary.

the Royal We think it right to call special attention to the observation of the Chief Commissioner on (see Schedule B.. the question p. 129).
of Local Control that of with We understand from him (bat though control rates without of paving the is any acute form.

it has not assumed grievance existent, to effect amalgama- Irish Constabulary, expedient at any future should time, thejj may not unfairly the citizens of Dublin from n in- deem from any form so long as it is divorced the Royal thought tion with that be and it would relieve burden which l equitable of local control.
E payers were relieved It is to be observed that if the Dublin rate- claims might be put forward by Belfast and Londonderry for the extra force main- > in respect of their payments i of Royal Irish in those tained of this burden Constabulary permanently similar towns.

There are some points the Chief Commissioner make suggestions.

in the memorandum of fo on which we desire * Sec the Reservation of the Puke of Abercorn, p. 120.
We think it would be better that the Commis- sioners should be appointed by the Lord Lieu- tenant, with a status similar to that of a Civil Servant.

Their appointment as -Justices ¡essary, It would not often does not seem be of their position, as we think, advantage, somewhat and makes anomalous.

We also think that, as we havi Irish Constabulary appoint- and dismissals be sub- to the control of a non-political Officer of the the case or tho Boyal ments, ject Crown.
promotions should the Commissioner by the Lord Lieutenant, We see no reason why this officer should be ap- unless he and to the Other- the position respon- pointed nor iiowrnment wise we think of a Civil Servant sible is fo be responsible administration.

the Chief Commissioner.

that be should have of the First Division for financial to As a general Department cial administration.
principle, we think should be responsible the Head of a for its finan- Dublin Metropolitan Police Courts and Divisional Magistrates.

We concur with the Chief Commissioner in his opinion that tiie cost of the Dublin Metropolitan Police Courts and their staffs and the salaries of .Magistrates should no longer be the Divisional charged to the Police Vote.

Pay and Pensions.
Pay and Pensions.

to by Our observations on to the Boyal Irish Constabulary appear to us applicable mutatis mutandis the Dublin Metropolitan this subject as the case of Police.

We annex a memorandum the Home Office, which deals inter alia with certain difficulties and the absence of any central control of police forces in England.
[Schedule C] inconveniences arising from furnished enforce from one locality The Chairman of the Sub-Committee has some personal knowledge of these difficulties in respect to of forces of the employment nother locality in time of dit those i gard to prompt action by riminal matters.

DESART (Chairman "ABERCORN.

STEPHEN GWYNN W. A. DORAN.

J.

B. POWELL.

turba uary, 1918.

'BKSEKVATfON BY THF.

DUKE OB ABE1ÏCOBN.


I-¡ova I Irish the I services under period that the t 'onstabni the contn and the Dublin I the Imperial Metropolitan Government Police should for at least sis 1 Cnvenmieiit may otherwise determine.

SUPPLEMENTARY REPORT.

The above report having been presented to the Grand Committee we have been desired by that body our Recommendations.

to reconsider No particular as those which in the opinion of the Grand Com- mittee, call for reconsideration.
points have been indicated With regard to our report relating Military Defence we are unable reasons which to our alter our reference.

i. e.-ininiendations judgment would that in our to Naval and to find any lead us of part on With regard to our report on Police, the Prime Minister in his letter of the 25th February to the for Chairman that that the administrative should be re control of Police forces the war.
served Although the majority of the Sub-Committee of the Convention reasons it is necessary in Ireland to the Imperial has stated authorities during against the reservation of such control reported authorities as in the Act of 1914, our recommendation in its character, general exclude special the application and did not necessarily conditions which might postpone of the principle to the Imperial for a specific period, was that- an Irish controlling Government i Parliament with complete affairs in maintain legislation.
should and internal order local local administration and legislative authority control give the effect forces to to local that We recognise during the war, that Imperial control of Police should, for administrative in all parts of the British Isle-.

purposes, be retained it may be essential We may add that our recommendations the report are based on the assump- throughout tion of a Parliament within stituted stable < rovernment to afford security in Ireland."

as the Empire so con- for steady and DESART.


ABERCORN.

STEPHEN GWYNN.

W. A. DORAN.

.1.

B. POWELL.

5th March, 1918.

121 Schedule A.

MEMORANDUM ON THE QUESTION" OF POLICE ADMINISTRATION UNDER AN IRISH GOVERNMENT.

(By the Inspector-General, B.I.C.).

first examined For the convenience of the Sub-Committee I have in this memorandum the system under which the Royal Irish Constabu- lary, at the present in- cluding certain pay, pensions, &c. comparison Forces.
I have then made a rough and local Police regarding, recruiting, between centralised time, performs information its duties, on this, suggestions Following the present forward in view of the con- to meet templated In in Ireland.

making par- touched ticularly on the question of policing Belfast and Dublin!

change of government suggestions situation, I have are put these I would submit, however, that of this nature, a general Sub-Committee morandum more Should tailed lowing Blue Books, Ac.
:— information than the in a short me- to give subject.

it is impossible the require more of outline de- to the fol- I would refer them Evidence and Report, R.I.C.

Committee of Enquiry, 1914; Annual Reports of H.M.

Inspectors of Con- stabulary in England Judicial Statistics (Ireland), 1913; " The Service Police England ; Wales," ster, 8 Red Lion Square, W.O.).

by Stanley of Savill.

and (John Rein- EXISTING SYSTEM.

(A).—Constitution of the Force.


The constitution, strength, Irish Constabulary the Royal provided 6 & 7 Wm.

IV., and Police (Ireland) Act, 1914. for, by a series of Statutes cap.

13, to and distribution is governed ranging the Constabulary of and from The 10,715 stables.

statutory Sergeants, strength of the Force Acting-Sergeants, is now and Con- This Force is allotted three heads:—Free under and Reserve.
throughout the country Quota, Extra Forces, The Free Quota is that portion of the Force to is allocated force and Belfast, laid down by the Lord Lieutenant is wholly chargeable This which to the Constabulary Vote.

various the Counties in accordance with a Sche- dule in Coun- cil under the Statute 48 Vic, cap.

12.

This require- to meet allocation ments of the country, to re- and vision at anv and Police (Ireland) Act, 1914.
The last allocation was made Acting-Sergeants, was 9,303. the number of Sergeants, allotted the normal is subject, now the Constabulary and Constables in 1909, and time under is made then In addition to this Free Quota, there is an allocated cap.

70, section Extra Force of 733 Sergeants, Acting-Sergeants, and Constables 29 Vic, 64, sec.

1.

Half the cost of this Force to Belfast.

A similar under Londonderry 28 & cap.

is charged of 14 men is allocated to cap.


83, sec 3. of charge under 33 & 34 Vic, to Belfast—per 4, and 00 & 61 Vic, like conditions extra Force time (when necessary) in disturbed IV., cap.

13, sec 12.

There are also Temporary Extra Forces main- areas tained These under 6 & 7 Wm.

to time, and at the present Forces vary from is power to maintain 2bô Sergeants, time there in counties Acting-Sergeants, but Clare in these coun- the actual number of extra Police ties is now only 110.
Half tbe cost of this extra in which Force it is serving.

is borne by tbe county or locality and Constables East and West Riding, and Galway Then under 9 and 10 Vic, cap.

97, there is an the Reserve for such a time reserve of 400 Sergeants, Acting-Ser- at the Depot,.

are employed a moiety of the in in the country, to the counties or localities for so many and Constables maintained authorised geants, Phoenix Park.

When localities to police is chargeable cost which stationed, and therein on the duty.
There to move Reserve reasons, their own are charged in respect other county over the Free Quota of that county.
in the Executive from county counties for and Police serving is power the Police at all times to county, or from sudden than that employed special in a county other against as are employed as they are absent to the number as to a moiety and to The actual effective Force now serving, total of Free Quota, Extra Forces being and Re- is 9,238 Ser- including Recruits Acting-Sergeants in training, and men.
the serve, geants, There are also 231 Head Constables serving, 4 of these being at Head Quarters, 8 at the Depot and on the Reserve, and 219 in the country.

As regards Officers: there are on the Constabu- has Force Surgeon.

been and 1 Veterinary now including 1 lary List 240 Officers of all ranks, As the Riding-Master Mounted practically abolished the Riding-Master and the Veterinary Surgeon will shortly vacate office, thus bringing the effective strength down to 238.
Of this num- in the Army and ber 31 are at present seconded, which leaves 207 actually engaged in police work, i.e., 14 at Head Quarters and Re- serve, and 193 in the country in charge of Dis- tricts and Counties.

serving (B).—Barracks.

The Force i> accommodated in Barracks and the the there of which and are close on 1,400 of barrack Huts, supply country, bedding, etc., as well as the rent of barracks, are chargeable in re- duction of this there is a charge of Is.
per week made to every man living in barracks.

to the Constabulary in furniture, Vote, but for are Tbe Barracks the most part hired houses held either on a yearly tenancy or under- lease (usually for 21 years with power to sur render at 7 or 14 years) if the Station is likely to be permanent.

In some cases it has been found necessary to build Barracks.

ground rents are paid from tlie Constabulary Vote.


the erection and maintenance of the buildings being carried out hy the Board of Wor] In fchi ■ ■ 9 old Military Barracks and disused Q by the Constabulary, are occupied by Bridewells these being also maintained the Board of Works.

Huts occupied by Constabulary are con- trolled by the Board of Works, but the ground rents are chargeable to the Constabulary Vote.
Where Barracks are held under yearly tenancies or under lease the landlords for an inclusive rent repairs, and pay all rates and as a rule undertake lighting, heating, The taxes.

and water supply is met by a scaled allowance which to Barracks varies slightly according to local circumstances.

(C).

—Wastage of Force.


from annual over the five years Taking an average 1912, 191G, the to December, from all causes was 053 ; this figure January, wastage much tained who are otherwise qualified desirous of retiring, prevented Act, 1915. is below normal, re- in the Force for the duration of the war to retire, and who are not they Provisions) by the Police (Emergency on pension, to men owing being were (D).—Recruiting.

The recruits 5 feet 8 inches measurement; character; fit.

aged for the R-I.C.
in height; of fair education; are required to be 30 inches mean chest of the highest and physically from 19-27 years, in officers, in charge before and the first instance, of the Sub-districts sent to being a recruit the has training the District Inspector of his District Inspector even of his County, and will then until he also satisfies the Surgeon and at the Depot, Ireland; for attestation The recruiting the Sergeants aie throughout Depot to satisfy and the County not be attested the Commandant ■of the Force.
Formerly the great source of recruits w-as the class the in a sense son a profession, being enabled supplying intelligence, with has not proved eco- to then he re- sons of farmers—this and this source of recruiting reasons Land Purchase younger men of superior physique a proper sense of pride of position and self-respect.

Recently so fruitful, nomic.


give bis elder quired the large a policeman's ment Service younger especially apparent, diminution to help on the farm; in the skilled and opened to in wages pay in secondary and other son.

«here often, of recruiting.

look" paltry, education employments improve- the Civil farmer's unrest, further, trades made tin.'
hostility the to this, political police causes time being, the younger the farmer In addition and rise for the the to is a The difficulty of obtaining suitable candidates for the Police exists not only in Ireland, but also in Great Britain (vide Sir Leonard Dunning's of En- m page 210 of the Committee quirv.

1914).

All recruits are trained at The period of training course the Swimming.

(theoretical includes Physical and practical) is about Drill.

Training, Police and Musketry.

six months, the R.I.C.


Depot.

and Work', Duty Ambulance (E).- Pay.

&c, ok R.I.C.

122 of the English Police Forces is attached as a Note to this memorandum.

(See p. 127).

Any comparison between the English and Irish Police Systems either as regards strength or ad- ministration is rendered difficult owing to the fact that the conditions obtaining in the two coun- tries are so wholly different in many respects.
shown In England active hostility Also m England there is an absence of agrarian or political unrest, which so often in Ireland requires the rapid and frequent movement of extra bodies is of Police.

to the Police, who can as a rule rarely of the count on the goodwill and co-operation public in the detection of crime, and in the main- This goodwill and co- tenance of law and order.
operation permit of the employment of isolated of Con- policemen, where in Ireland to police an area of stabulary would be required the same size or containing a number For purposes of comparison figures with regard services clude any of the abnormal bhe War, might to the be of interest:— the same population.

the following total effective police in- imposed by conditions for the year 1913-14, which does not England and Wales 59,925 37,333,496 36,068,395 Ireland D.M.p; Area).
10,500 20,350,769 3,974,115 (excluding Giving an average per man:— Force.

Acreage, Popu- lation.

England and Wales ... 1 ... Ireland ... 1 1,939 623 602 379 Taking the cost of the effective Force in each Average Force.

Cost.

per Man.
Cost.

per Man.

England and s. d. Wales ... 59,925 5,981,795 99 10 0 ... 10,500 1,007,739 90 0 0 £ £ Inland in England In the amount tive Force and Wales, no account taken of the cost of periodical Home Office spection or administration in connection with various County the amount tion and Headquarters shown as the cost of the effec- is in- the Forces, whereas all inspec- expenses.

and Borough shown for Ireland includes administration The annual cost of a constable of the R.I.C.
is estimated the moiety at £95, to be chargeable for the purpose of essessing to counties.

(I'M.—The Duties Constabulary.

op the Royal Irish IV., the Royal of in 6 Win.

their duties in number Irish Con- c. 13, but been have and variety.

and well educated the whole face of the centres thread every The original duties alike increasing aro laid down stabulary for many years past steadily They are a highly disciplined body of men, country, in Dublin.
motion taking advantage menl added much nine to ■ Inch now does work spread over in a web of which for almost It is easy to set such a machine in any purpose, and the Govern- of this has from the duties of for practically time to the Force, every The 1\m of the verrions grades of the R.I.C.

is 'it Department.

pay, War : and 1916.

In addition been -ranted Bonuses .

meet the increased cosí ot living.


to ordinary time from have 1 'Meo (Ireland) The men employed for other Depart- ments are not given any extra pay, but merely the and subsistence R.I.C.

Regulations.

allowances, in work under other A Table showing the maximum and mini- compared with several When considering the cost of the Royal Constabulary, therefore, it is only reasonable Irish to mum rates of the R.I.C.
123 set against this cost the expenditure which would devolve on other departments were they called upon to provide an extra staff capable of coping with the work now done on their behalf by the, As an example of this extra work I would re- fer to the assistance in numerous matters which is given to the Department of Agriculture—the taking of the Agricultural Statistics being prob- ably the most laborious.
In this connection I invite the attention of the Sub-Committee to the evidence of Mr. T. P. Gill, Secretary of the Department of Agriculture, in the report of the R.I.C.

Committee of Enquiry, page 310, et seep There is also the Census, which is, in Ireland, entirely carried out by the R.I.C., who also carrj out sundry enquiries on behalf of the Congested Districts Board and of the Board of Works.
Furthermore, the Force performs the doty of inspection and verification of Weights and the Measures, fee of £4 per inspector, whereas in England in tbe cases where the police are asked to undertake this duty the\ receiving only a nominal instances Other Drugs Act, Acts, the enforcement are duties under the Explosives Act, the Food and the Petroleum and the suppression of illicit distillation, of the Fishery Laws.

(G).—R.I.C.

Pensions and Gratuities.


and payable The Pensions to Mem- (¡fatuities bers of the Force are governed by a long series of Acts of Parliament from 6 Wm.

IV., cap.

13, to the Constabulary and Police (Ireland) Act, 1914, amended The following, rules Sergeants by 6 and 7 Geo.

V., cap.

59. the existing to Head Constables, are shortly governing and Men.
however, pensions ranging A man when he has completed 15 years' to a pension under as being medicallv ser- the fol- un- vice becomes entitled scale, lowing fit:— if retired of 15 years ... 15-50th of Pay On completion For each completed from 15-20 add For each completed from 20-25 add For each completed from 25-28 add On completing 29 vear ' ... l-50th of Pay year ... 2-50th of Pay year ... l-50th of Pav §rd of Pay If in injured pension received.
of his duty at am 'Aio execution a special injury a man can be granted service proportional to the The widows service and over who die in of men of IS years' the Force can be given pensions during widow- hood and allowances for each child up to 15 years of age.

Men who joined the Force prior to 1908 may but their pension will be calculated rates of fixed by tbe Act of 1908.

Any man who has pay re- 30 years' tire voluntarily of 3rd of his pay.
is 50 years of age may on his full pension retire voluntarily service and at 25 years' on the service, service who become medi- to tbe execution of one month's arid widi service may be given a similar Men under 15 years' from causes not due a gratuity mIIv unfit of duty, may pay for each year of service, under P" years' gratuity.
receive An Officer is somewhat that lie qualifies except has served 10 years, and cannot served until he has 30 years, similarly dealt with, for a pension when be retire voluntarilv he receives when l-60th of his salary for each year of Bervice; hi attains his maximum pension only at 40 years' service when he receives grd of his salary.

The Pension List of the R.I.C.

in the year 1913-14 the of cost; lary Vote was £1,417,785, tuities absorbed £4lO,Û4G, or almost one-third this sum.
and pensions and gra- of item total Constabu- is a high Since 1914 the amount payable somewhat decreased, list only absorbed penditure of £1,473,100.

sions is due to the fact On pension this When increase will owing to the of 1916. are restriction and £391,053 in 1916-17 in pensions has the pension ex- total m pen- out of a This decrease that voluntary during suspended is removed the pension even above raising of pay granted the pre-war retirements the war.
list amount by the Act (H.)—Comparison Controlled trolled Forces.

of the R.I.C.

as a Centrally.

Force Locally with Con- The R.I.C.

is responsible a Centrally to, the Executive; value in promulgating delay, least possible Controlled Force close and working the it and carrying out, the orders of the thus of in is directly touch with, greatest with Government.
the trial and The organisation of the R.I.C to which a police machine test and subject, it cannot be denied sistently carried and honestly allotted to it by the Executive.

was not arrived that out at has stood every could be it has con- the duties immediately, time a system of Provin- this was abandoned to.
For a short period, some 25 to there was a partial by tlie appointment to deal with the provinces where disturbance to exist reversion of Divisional classes certain about 1898, of but for some Inspectors-General, Centralisation as there was cial and not reverted or 30 years ago, decentralisation Commissioners police work was they and have not since been revived.

tage of this system was the large respondence, contr and the uncertainty rife, but ceased in .1.
Centralisation One disadvan- increase of cor- caused by dual at in the formation take being the R.I.C.

trained is.

I understand, aimed of Colonial Forces, who often officers their model—their largely as at the Phoenix Park Depot.

Further, R.I.C., one model, more drafting which minimum ship in a Centralised trains all its recruits ensures efficient service, recruits to localities they were born and any complaints the locality.
like Force which, the in one place and on and of in to a the Public more its than reduces even system those by other reared, of bias due to relation- and, tendency Forces, The Police bringing of the Home Office.

from of U.M.

in the Report 210. pp.

1914, evidence Inspectors the in England towards is to-day, centralisation—i.e., as regards the local forces mor- under'the control This can be ascertained of Sir Leonard of Constabulary of R.I.C.

Committee et seq.
Committee et seq.

Dunning, one in England, of Enquiry, in administration, and the many The Centralisation of a Force also makes as large contracts for for economy uniform equipment, things univer- sally necessary for a Polici Force, can be mor.'

cheaply made than those for small quantities, and there will be more uniformity of quality in the articles so obtained.
The cost also of a centrally controlled force can be more equitably distributed and the policeman will cost tbe san Q 2 124 stationed, whereas in decentralised forces the cost varies enormously, rates of pay differ—one force being thus kept up to strength with men of superior type, while in the same province another lower wages can get men of only force granting inferior type.
Another advantage which a centrabsed force possesses is greater efficiency in the tracing and apprehension of offenders, and in this connection as a step towards 1 may mention in England, it was pro- centralisation, posed to establish for criminal for all County and Borough Forces; information to the war, but, owing the scheme is in abey- ance.
the war two clearing-houses that just before rules from ordained under time The alternative force is a force to a centrabsed locally controlled and supported, to a consider- able extent, by local taxation.

The model of such a force would be the County and Borough Forces of Great Britain.

These forces have been certain established by Statute to time.
One rule was that the proportion of Police to a population should be 1 to 1,000, but long since abandoned; and, the whole of Eng- it averages about 1 to 623. land and Wales, rule, which Another is that no borough less could than of have a separate are 207 police boroughs of over 10,000 and of these 130 have established 77 being content in England, forces, to be policed by the County is still kept, 10,000 force.
inhabitants this proportion has been inhabitants There separate taking rates are 15 towns On the present valuation, in On this standard, there and disregarding Dublin and qualified in Ireland Belfast, forces — 6 of these to have separate being in Ulster.

and regard being had to existing towns, it is questionable whether many of these would be the cost of a local police inclined to the extent of 50 per cent.

The force, even establishment in Forces a very large Ireland increase the valuation in England.
would, therefore, in local taxation, of the country mean and this when of Local and County to shoulder is much lower those than In England don City and valuation In valuation of the Provinces Ireland, and Wales, without the Metropolitan per head of the population including Lon- the rateable is £5 12s.

Od.

D.M.P.

the is £3 12s.

Od.


The valuation per bead excluding Area, Area, the being: — Leinster Ulster Munster ... ... ... ... £4 18 0 ... £3 12 0 ... £3 8 0 Connaught ... ... £2 8 0 rateable valuation total excluding The Wales, that of Ireland, excluding Dublin, is £14,893,930, or pool, Manchester, the combined is £162.257.595: Birmingham, of England and Leeds.
and while valuations of Liver- London, than less On such a restricted basis of taxation the cost police if Belfast of separate and its own, towns of over 10,000 forces, separate of the country would hardly Financially, ised-force problems.

would forces would be prohibitive, elected to have a police the case would be worse.

If inhabitants elected of rating the problem for the be capable therefore, be the supply of solution.
in Ireland case of many of police a decentral- difficult force of the 15 to have rest the forces In addition to the above, local police would not be easily would reinforcement reinforced, lead to endless bargaining forces the cost of and Local as scales of pay would cary accord- and litigation, forces would be ing to different areas.

slower in promulgating orders or information, and would not be so prompt to act in the apprehen- sion of fugitive offenders.
There is a probability also that the controlling bodies might raise diffi- their police affecting culties thus causing issued by the Central Executive, an order to be enforced in one area and neglected in another, in want of uniformity.

in confusion regarding resulting orders and and Previous Legislation MEET THE POLICE Government.

Measures PROBLEM designed UNDER AN IrÍSH to With the establishment of a separate Parlia- responsible is concerned.
arises as far as at and an Executive new problem ment- in Ireland, to it, an entirely the R.I.C.

present, funds ; the amount rates question Rule Bill of 1886, and Clause 21 (b) provided that: — an Imperial one, and paid from Imperial the The the Home of expense therefore, in connection with entailed negligible.
This Force first arose in Ireland on is, is, "The Boyal Irish Constabulary force subsists, to that as heretofore Lieutenant continue the control shall, while and be subject the Lord of as representing Her Majesty."
(c) " The Irish Legislature may provide and maintenance for the establishment force police Ireland under and arrangements Treasury establishment and boroughs in counties and the control of local authorities, the may be made between for the Irish Government of police the and maintenance of a in in the R.I.C.

of the R.I.C.

of of control the points marked (Hansard, reached for vol.

304, to seems however, The Bill The question one of by Mr. Parnell never There was no other mention the Bill.
was, amendment p. 1134).

and no schedules scheme substitution the wastage—all pensions being guaranteed ment.

Government because to their the R.I.C.

of the vested no definite treatment disappearance under No of it were printed to have contemplated by local former the interests as to pay and by the British Govern- were made to on behalf of either officers or men, as representations formulated scheme was the Bill.
Committee, ; but the the gradual forces, and by natural The next the question Home Rule Bill, 1893.

This Bill contemplated— arose was time the in (1) The formation of County and Borough Forces by the Irish Parliament; for six years the control (2) The maintaining under R.I.C.

; Lieutenant of the of the Lord (3) The immediate cessation of recruiting; (4) The gradual withdrawal of the R.I.C, and, when estab- local lished, an option being given to mem- bers of the R.I.C.
local forces ; forces were such join to (5) Existing (6) The added rights as to pensions, salaries of the R.I.C.

were and emoluments guaranteed service upon compulsory by the British Exchequer ; re- tirement as compensation for abolition of office varied in the case of Officers to from and was ten years for the men ; twelve years,, ten 125 (7) No allowance for increments which might the added years was to accrue during be made in calculating pensions.
by both officers terms were fully discussed These and men, and neither class was satisfied.
In introducing the Bill on 13th February, 1893, Mr. Gladstone said: — with these of the question their ultimate The principles which we recognise to the consideration connected are as impor- applicable the Royal tant : Their gradual Irish Constabulary reduction, or dis- appearance, and dis- in them charge of every obligation such a way, as I hope we shall see, that the interest Force will not be adversely passing of such a measure fore the as that now be- and honourable affected recognition remarkable dissolution the House."
towards of that full our in in the opinion of the officers and men as a sentiment, this, the performance but then In was the Force serving they considered excellent, the maintained fell far short of the promise, publication of Schedule VI.

of the Act led to both much officers and men were submitted and a precis of their demands was on 17th White Parliamentary however, succeeding ended.

from to Government, issued July, not the matter as a 1893. the dissatisfaction.
The Bill, Memorials House Paper and in of Lords, The next proposal of Home Rule was the "Irish Council" Bill, 1907, and in this the the Royal from the control of the Council.

Services excluded Irish Constabulary was one of in the nature The Act of 1914 followed, and as this is on of of the that given Moreover, the R.I.C.

two Committees the Bill were of are worthy fully considered of Parliament, be urged with consideration.
to tbe previous Bills, Sections the Statute Book, and was thus in both Houses and debated upon where due weight wasi no doubt, provisions and defects may dealing highest and Schedules by considered sent—one the officers, ideas were Their regard paid due in amendments with accordance Committees.

included, IV.

were down a transitional day," " appointed to remain following 1893. the it this Act the of the Clauses very carefully to repre- elected the men.
the other, laid before Mr. Birrell, who several to in recommendations the As a result, Clause 37 and Schedule and Clause 5 of the Act lays period of 6 years, the the R.I.C.

was thus in the Bill of the Imperial Government, set forth and made and Schedules of under the precedent them, the Clauses during which from and the Conclusions.
the existing organisation, now outlined the R.I.C, the at the present Having ■etc., of relative merits Force with Britain me future, that by a Governor-General by ment, Parliaments.
Provincial assuming forward to put and not and demerits system which obtains the time, and having compared of the Centralised in Great for the Ireland will be governed a Central Parlia- with a Governor-General it only remains for suggestions some with In the iirst place, sible to forecast what population will be towards it is so impos- the future attitude of the of the maintenance I submit that law and order that, excessively dangerous present a radical exists in this country.
change time, even in my opinion, it would be to attempt, at tbe involving any scheme in the police system as it now to formulate I would, therefore, urge in the strongest man- ner possible that, for a transitional period oi, say, six years (.this being the period that was found suitable both in 1893 and again in 1914) no radical in the organisation or in the change be made general principles under which is now administered.

the R.I.C.
the R.I.C.

this system, The present I would point out, will, transitional period, admit of any during economies which may be considered necessary.

Such economies can be effected by the abolition of recruiting ; by the grouping together of counties or districts to do so having been given by the Police Act of 1914; also, should it be found during this tran- sitional period that an armed force is no longer in the handling nécessarv, of arms can be abolished.
the training of recruits for administrative purposes—power At the end of this period of six years, we shall, these regarding suggestions In making to ascertain I expect and hope, be in a position change of system accurately whether a complete is possible or desirable; and, if so, which system will be most suitable to the needs of the country.

the for a transitional period, retention of the R.I.C.
I am competent or qualified I do not feel that to offer any opinion on the question as to who should exercise supreme control over the Force.

of I would urge, however, such in the hands of the Irish Parliamentary affecting tlie then, in the Force, vested such officer or man should have a right of appeal to on any matter interests of an officer or man the event entirely Executive, being placed adversely supreme control that, in the Governor-General.
I also feel that I am not competent nor in a source suggestions to offer any as to the for or recommen- position the from which funds dations the Force of necessary period should be derived— during they should be provided that from the Imperial, or from the Irish, Exchequer.
this transitional is to say, whether the maintenance Not only for the reasons which I have given it necessary the existing above do I consider not, organisation, the present, there for adopting other this course, which I think cannot be overlooked.

etc., of the R.I.C.
be and very interfered with ; but important reasons should for are that from one form of Government the new Government will find to have advantage and efficient machine the work of every is, as I have previously In the first place, during the difficult period to it of the to its hand a highly of the change another, greatest organised for example, Department great until and in would, I think, find it difficult to undertake that portion of their duties which is now done by interlocked extent those Departments, are organisation, the R.I.C.
large Government to a and control they the R.I.C, changed with under the Force.

running stated, order, like ; It may not be out of place here to put forward the Belfast Police.

regarding the Dublin Metropolitan remarks a few general Force and The former Force, is provided roughly, 1,200 men, 'in and, my opinion, at least for the transitional period, it would be very unwise this arrangement.
to, the R.I.C, amounting by to interfere with 126 Belfast obtains inaiu advantages present the following: — system, amongst which from the I may mention (1) None but trained are for the to Belfast.

force must, have probationary before his case and picked in the country A candidate men sent city service is considered.

(2) .Any man found unsuitable for he Service this that re-transferred in Belfast regulation to be a very considerable force may country.

popular itself discipline.


the city the is so to proves aid to (3) The proportion nominations, Belfast, drafting men The supplv I fear, diminishing: been made have cannot any say satisfactory as between religious is essential is more easily maintained which de- in In the Force at large.

is, efforts it, though stimulate recruits I to of Protestant and that we are meeting with success.

from (4) At present no man in Belfast who is a very This insuring tion.
impartial is selected is locally great for duty connected.

advantage for police administra- (5) The Commissioner touch with at Belfast the Police close mittee interviews mittee, receive mittee with of the Corporation.

I have had with reports to time, to be entirely from time and from appear the existing arrangements.

works in Com- From that Com- which Î the Com- satisfied As regards amalgamation touched the D.M.P.. of this Force with the question the the R.I.C.

was of on by Mr. Headlam.


Treasury Remem- ot service, in his Minority Report of the R.I.C.

brancer, Committee of Enquiry, 1914, page 35.

He stated there that the maintenance of the separation of the two Forces was due to historical reasons.

This may be true, but iu a very slight degree.

in their con- Tbc D.M.P.

differ from the R.I.C.


of pay and rates dition organisation, pensions, and also in the nature of their duties, Their powers and also arc and based on local statutes, and for these reasons amalga- mation would be exceedingly Mr. Headlam's views, I may add, did not meet with the approval of his colleagues, Sir David Harre 1 of whom have very and Mr. B.

B. Starkic—both experience great in Ireland.

the manner of performance.

and administrative difficult.


in many different, respects police My own opinion sitional attempted.

radical change found tween is that, at least period, no such amalgation tran- be If at the eud of this period any in the whole police system is be- for the should then of the to be desirable, these In conclusion, the relationship two Forces can be reconsidered.
I would call attention to interests the of both officers and safeguards In my opinion men laid down in the Act of 1914. no safeguards those could, or should he, offered to the members of the Force as in any subsequent the scheme a more form, both officers and men these matters: this 1893 and of 1914. in regard the precedent by the Convention less advantageous I will, however, to advise me is following legislation.

committees assemble adopted assumes definite than of to of J.
A. BYRNE, Brigadier-General, Inspector-General.

[Table.

Note I.—Statement showing Rates of Pay of local police forces in Great Britain.

Average married children, to and bonus men 9s.

6d War Bonus.

Rates.

Weekly .Msil'sit'sl with Wife.

8 0 9 0 9 0 16 0 16 0 7 0 8 0 6cl.

for first ; 2 4 0 4 0 10 0 10 0 9 6 9 6 1/-S eluding Iirst child.

Il 6 1 0 10 0 8 0 16 0 R. I. Constabulary CssiMs S,-I"_.ts.

20/- 36/- Cardiff ... Liverpool Manchester Sheffield Edinburgh Glasgow ... X ew< ■ astle-on-Tyne ( 'ousts.
Sergts.

CoUStS.

Sergts.

( 'ousts.

Sergts.

29/3 41/- 27/4 40/- 27/4 27/5 39/1 29/7 41/- 30/3 43/11 (¿>) Rural Forces Great Bbitain in Bedfordshire Gloucestershire Ll\( isLNSHIRE Shropshire CsSUStsS.

Sergts.

( ''.lists.

Sergts 21/9 30/9 ('ousts.

24 4 Sersrts.

36/1 Consts.

23/4 Swgts.

30/11 sr.iiAN-siintis Consts.

28/- Sergts.

:,.


", 7 (aknap.vonshire ... ABERDEENSlir Lanarkshire 26/- 35 - 26 3 37/11 26 3 37/11 34/- "I 40/- / 42/- \ 50/- / 39/- \ 48/6/ 39/- "I 46/10/ 18/1 \ 4.-, 5 37/4 \ 44/4 / 39/3 "I 46/- / 39 - I 4S - / 42 11\ 48 9 / 35/4 36 !

34/5 37/4 33 3 38 is 36 9 43/9 128 Note II.—Notes of the Oral Evidence of the Inspector-General R.I.C.

since to the a times, ment was counties.

Training The Authorised of Strength were additional the Force was normally sufficient.
At present the Royal Irish Constabulary called to perform upon numerous in connection with duties Food Control, the Defence of the Realm, etc., and, on account of the number of men absent on military the vacancies, and other service existing to meet the demands made upon sufficient scarcely strength them.

was toa" (Sergeants "Extra at the present was at present entitled ' ' of 500 Police Its authorised strength only 1,120.

Force was chargeable Belfast Quota stables).

733.


The actual was, however, the Extra Rates.

616 men) was about £29,400 per annum.

a certain sum watch wards a Police Rate (fixed by Statute) is levied in of the whole Police Establishment.

respect Free and Con- Force" was time the cost of local on of (for a moiety This " night to- charge and a contribution includes duty, the Town for of £400 The present Inspector's In Dublin charge salary.
Half the In addition and Constables free of charge, spectors to the "free quota" mentioned, the services of Sergeants Belfast has of 7 District also, In- and 28 Head Constables.

There has been no direct local control of the City was handed over Irish Constabulary, cap.

time 70.

Committee to the policing the Royal 28 & 29 Vic, local Police who from to local Police Inspector, The sultative ment of the City Force.

and it harmonious.
and it harmonious.

of as regards the Town power There of in 1865, by is, however, the Corporation, suggestions time make arrangements through for the Inspector-General's this Committee is purely as the Town approval.
con- 1 the disposition The relations Inspector are and employ- between invariably It has been usual Inspector the Town Police, Belfast, the Inspector-General, Inspector, having, for several years to address as the "Commissioner of the control of hut he is under like an ordinary County however, a larger salary.

provides Force The Act quoted above the Constabulary Officer of shall consist of one Inspector, who shall as a County the called of Belfast."
Town of Constabulary, of Constabulary Inspector Inspector that " the in Belfast rank and be for the are men Extra the Reserve Force or otherwise, Forces.

"—These from counties.

"Temporary taken and drafted when necessary proclaimed kept at the Depot.

in excess for men Statutes Constabulary an area, which might with half on account of disturbance.

of Counties their give authority free quota.


are only charged The to charge than a county, there lie smaller the cost of the extra police sent to disturbed Force The Reserve or is labour, the onlv to Dublin.—No recent for duty in 1914. inconvenience occasion when re- Assistance from the sulted R.I.C.

were detailed during de- the of tachments the Chief Commissioner of the Dublin Metro- politan Police, but be was somewhat doubtful as such have anv as area.

legal status the R.I.C.

in the D.M.P.


dispute then worked in Dublin The R.I.C.

the orders to whether under Recruiting the Wyndham Act was passed; but has been stopped from time to time for periods as long as two years; for instance, it when had to be resumed, and it was found that the then obtained vvere not up to the usual recruits standard, could not be exercised owing to the necessity of rapid completion as the same care of the numbers.

in selection The present but them.


standard, obtaining class of recruits was up there was greater to difficulty the in Pay.—The in Belfast to the fact Two shillings to men serving larger as many Force was not attracting recruits as it formerly did.

This was possibly that other callings were more due extra per week was attractive.
and Derry, granted is payable and slightly in to married men or certain on otherwise There which the pay of is a continual to fall had other into of living varied two and adequacy of the pay was a difficult matter lodging allowance in to express an immediate the cost and standard line ; also from to raise the R.I.C.

tendency and those The opinion.

serving towns.

forces, to time.

police other large time The Force was generativ Popular, and caused in some localities, political temporary unpopularity.
the case at the present time hut some- excite- This in a few spent time being was both civil and military, all Police to use rifles, able portion civil training.

ing of trained the Dublin Metropolitan from latter was now, he understood, use of revolvers).

not period of training was.

he thought, longer in England.

a consider- of the the on Drill was now part of the train- was differed (The in the training did but the somewhat respect Police.

trained interfere with The military Forces.


and the civil training, in this R.I.C.

than The into Dutch's.—These touch with Additional the Force and gave them knowledge He was not and experience.

in favour of limiting the Force to purely police duties.

duties the people brought Colonial were, before Potjce Officers the war, sent to be trained at the Royal Irish Constabu- lary Depot on account of the high reputation of the R.I.C.
trained Police Force as an efficient and fullv Loyalty of the Force.—He ing the authority set over them.

loyalty of the Force bad no fear regard- the towards ion of Localisation.—He believed that the establishment of local forces would be a retrograde step.

There were great advan- ce existing power of transferring men from one place to another.

Tt was a rule that no officer or man was to his own forces locality.

for would their maintenance — wholly At present, outside Dublin, Belfast and Derry.
all localities and trained police force, sufficient for normal requirements, without any cost whatever.

ever The establishment a charge have a fully-equipped of local local (urban andrural) in part.

involve upon rates sent or No demand for local control had come to his knowledge.

Promotions with tlie Lord Lieutenant.

and Dismissals,—Promotions rested the Inspector-General; Dismissals with Detection of Crime.—In the rare eases where sent.

were from large Belfast.


detectives other of the crimes in ¿he coimtn re<pñ work, There was a staff of plain-clothes detectives also at certain such towns, as Cork, Limerick, Waterford.

These men were available for detective duty.

There was no local Unification of Irish Police.—There was no reason why Dublin should not be policed b\ the R.I.C.
He believed that after a time i'l might he an advantage fo have one force Eoi the whole of Ireland, gamation would, he thought, only dislocate but an imm jealousy in such bol I' fori i -, and il.

therefore, he transitional should not be period : not two forces only were different, Sergeanl were differently gradi d. the rates oí paj 'if the but the officers above il WKaoARDS in Tin-; Act mi LOI 1.
11 i.ded satisfactory, bul he undi ■ in the force had been that officers the rel irement with compen- the opinion and m' n should, riejit sai ing -:"■■ ice towards pension.

in ml dit ion, be given to immediate 'oxTiioL.—Assuming an hi di responsible Gov- the Minister ernment, responsible for the peace of the country should the pobee have to mov.- and utilise considered the power that be Schedule B.

MEMORANDUM ON THE DUBLIN METROPOLITAN POLICE.

(By th.

Chiej Commissioner).


The Constitution of tlie Dublin Metropolitan 'elicit is dealt wit li in va rio il-, si.,'.

Utes, t-.he principa!

eing <i & 7 Wm.

IV.

C, 2Í).

The Commissioners are not in-mbers Th.

('.

2Í), the d 'tu- ol Jus1 cea of the Peace - i such othei fo!

Lord Lit " to execute .... shall be from time to time directed by the Chief Secretary Secretary."

or m his absence together i he f. 'nder duth with .... of the -,i bi th [V. [: 23 Vie.

I 38 Vic.
I 38 Vic.

l-'nf ■ ibu ic.s see Members .Vote the Police of II.

(I ).

force are appointed by or in his absence by the the Chief Secretary Secretary.

Under The powers and duties generally Police politan other Police aie foires ¡.

bin tin y al i ai siniiLr 'if the Dublin Metro- nts affecting the Dublin Hetr r.>ii.

The strength of the force is not fixed by Statute.

has The Chief Secretarj "a oi L ndi r Secretary to appoinl power, sufficient number of lit and able men.

.

.

."
.

.

."

of all constable-, mu.-.i.

ivrrivr (i & 7 Win.

iindcr IV.. of the ('hief or Under The appointment formal approval the Secretary.

The maximum Secretary is as follows oi' Coder recruited strength up to which the Chief to he has authorised foice the :—■ 1 Chief Superintendent.

li .Superintendents.

25 Inspectors.

42 Station 148 Sergeants.

Serjeants.

IS Detective Officers: !i7!i ( lonstables.

36 Supernumeraries.
36 Supernumeraries.

There is, therefore, al auth« trength of 1,252, bul the Treasun avmi-nt of 1,201 only.

Th.

latter figure lierrfurc.

the real strength al which it nde'ivoiired i.suntain forer.

the le fo The pax oi the fo II.

(3) I Pensions and < ïratuities, cales of pension and m'atuities to which ; i\ i!, Service Staff.

The normal Civil Service Stall at Commissioners i Mtices consists of :-- The Secretary Lord Lieutenant Second Division Clerks, eoiii'.-c through The salaries in Note II.

{I).
{I).

and Accountant, and the Finance appointed by appointed Clerk and three in ihe ordinary Civil Service of the Civil Service Coiuniissioners.

Stab are shown Medical Medical A Principal Medical Officer.

Assistant Medical Staff Off i Officer and Divisional Médirai Officer are attached to the forre.

rests with the Their appointmenl Lord Lii iitenant.

The .salaries of the Medical Officers are shown in Note II.

(I).

D.M.P.

Courts.


in its functions ao way ander of Poker, included ili an Police Courts which The Dublin Metrop is an independent In the control of the Commissioners for purposes in the Dublin Metropolitan Police vote.

l,v The Divisional Magistrates is.

nevertheless, Department financial appointed are the Lord Lieutenant.

Particulars of salaries, &c .

of staff of Polire Courts are shown in Note II.

(2).

the Dublin Metropolitan Polier Distri.

I nre shown on Nöte III.

•■• of Expense!?


or Police Establishment.

The joint expenses of Dublin Metropolitan .„e borne ¡mil Police Courts Polkse Hsliililisluncnl by :_ (a) Parliamentary (b) Appropriations Vote, in Aid.

Ol & 62 Vie.

', The latter item is composed of receipts from ;— 130 law and preserving that, the machinery for enforcing order should be as little interfered with as possible.
\\- 1 ro- pulita.it Police are now performing a number of important duties outside ordinary police work : H must be borne in mind that the Dublin of Defence of the Realm Act.

(a) Enforcement (b) Enforcement of Aliens Restrictions Orders.

(r) The carrying out of the complicated system of Food Control.

(d) The Petrol Restrictions (e) The procuring of Statistics for the Depart- ment of Agriculture and Technical In- struction.

Orders.

17 & 18 Vie., :t&4\Ym.

IV.,e G7.

34 ¿85 Vio., 5, Pedlars' Fees.


fi, Incidental Income employed (lf Cast by private &C.), linifun"' {Payments for Police persons sale 0.96.

44- & 45 Vie., A Note (Note ture c 4i'- received as above.

under IV.)

is attached the various sub-heads showing expendi- and amounts " is the proceeds to a maximum is the principal The Police Tax, which item of the " local contribution of a rate of sd.
limited tho valuation Police the Dublin Metropolitan is now collected by the Cor- District, tax the City, and by the County poration as regards of as the Dublin the regards Council lies outside Metropolitan which the City.

Police District the £ on of The portion in I should the expenses the Dublin Such an arrangement so far as 1 am aware.

it is hallowed by long precedent In my to commend it.

Before Leaving the question of Finance.


in that included to draw attention the Police Courts in no other that has nothing to the fact are Police Vote.

eitv.

like of Metropolitan obtains and except in Dublin opinion in the fact be t rates missioner the paid by him.

and should not, 1 think, be perpetuated.

the Commissioner responsible before whom he prosecutes.

has.
has.

however, The alliance Police Court for paving is something the officer although almost is an there Stall, that their objectionable of Police should the Magis- The < tom- over are one.

inmatura1 salaries no control whatever The foregoing functions I now come regarding and and and organisation ' ment.

the present deals generally with constitution, of the Dublin Metropolitan the question pay.

position.
position.

Police, to the question of their control under a sv.stem of Self-Govern- The transfer of the Dublin Metropolitan Imperial from lie regarded as inevitable.

To band over control to Irish control must, in the first to the instance, local authority at anv rate, Police I suppose, would, however, be injudicious.
No doubt, I ant not the outset control at the better Police in in Ireland the precedent with in (¡real Britain before them, authorities will ultimately that at all sure is a perfect one, but seek such control.

system of this I am convinced local that of the the Irish system local of the new scheine be to Vest of government, of plan would the Department to the Home Office across the control which will correspond the channel.

tho to future Police by organisation the following of the Dublin consideration.
.Metropolitan A radical change in the system of Governmenl until the must entail the various gain necessary working.

Above all things at such a time it is essential a period of unavoidable branches experience of the new ( xecutive confusion, to ensure smooth therefore, strongly of opinion the change of supreme I am.

as regards upon, Imperial existing police system should remain unchanged.
introduced Alterations may be subsequently Irish hands, if decided that save from the control to requires, occasion these should be effected gradually caution.

and opportunity as offers, but and with due It may be appropriate <»f local control thorny one as regards to remark here has always that the been a some- the Dublin Metro- Police.

The citizens pay in rates a considerable sum the upkeep of the force, but have no share the Knglish to pay have the control of the Force would be in its management.
the citizens would probably On in question what politan towards whatever sv.stem more, but hands.

their Moreover, elsewlu re in Ireland, for while police nearly This the most part pay nothing the in those is sufficient, so heavy differential cities where the in Dublin.

local as the for ""free quota ratepayer- their Police. "

of is not contribution the Dublin content.

ratepayers some grounds treatment undoubtedly gives for dis this grievance that suggest, h would.
1 think, be desirable I would be removed.

local contribution the be dispensed should that while the control of the Police is in the hands of (he (Police Central Government of Hate) might the Police being borne upon the The cost would then be borne by the communit\ large Tiie forward Forces would have good results, economically otherwise.

and would suggestion that ha.- amalgamation the Exchequer.

occasionally of the fall on all alike.


with, I cannot, been cost two at however, in Dublin has always difficulty, and demands concur niatenallv different in character put Irish Police and in this view.

been a matter an adminis- that from Police work of exceptional tration suitable for the'rest is not only centre Dublin the natural and is jHtlitical this kind must special peace of the <Sty.

consideration labour of Ireland.

the scat of Government, id most organisations.
of the important Activities of serious always be matters for those responsible for hut of and the those Police different A City Force must characteristics force but even have necessarily entirely of a from rural in the case of the City of Belfast, the only city in Ireland where conditions are at all approximate in Dublin, the and specialised necessity for exceptional as m Dublin, administration to those treatment is not bo apparent Dublin is the last place in which experiments such as enforcement order preservation particularly, as I have said before at a time when there must he confusion and unrest among law ami be attempted and possibly the people vital matters e\eileincnl of public in th) should of Tlir Irish Itoviil is „ scini-inililarv (Viistahularv toree, while the Dublin Metropolitan Police.
,,is the is a purely ('¡s'il Foroe, Such a radical contrary, ,,f the change might not meet u-itli the wishes citizens ,,f Dublin, while the Dublin Metropolitan Police would bitterly their abolition qua Dublin Metis,|Hilitait resent Police I hi I his .Mel When as to I In- etlcct u| représentâtion.s of the Force and Stall' which a liai would hase.

the Home Util ils-.i-ti-.suui the Force were permitt the Chief Secretary, views before bj f he I bnrmissi was also follwed be premature; It would.
All other that howcvi-r, may possibly I',,lire following be futile to take amalgamating upset for again within a comparatively of existing establishing tbe considerations sins-e the ultimately apart, various acipiirs' il scents In inc. I,seal authtsril e.sintrnl over ies mniiient.

Ils,- doubt, I think, tss prrpal an opportui the ls.ngli.sh practice— il would so.
when the detail ,,f public and before, the serious ami doubtful step the consequent the necessity force may arise t-sssi forces, with machinery etïeet a Dul,lin when to it.

■.se which ra and Staff, tlie present mla.

.111 no id them to do made lie are o give legal alls.

\V.

15.

JOHNSTONE, short period.

All, Die inline 1017 N O TES.

.

I.—Acts relatisc to the D.11.P.

,,| (he di,.I Eviden Ilisisions 11.

Itetiuis showing rates of paw and III.

D.M.P.

District.

IV.

Cost of the D.M.I'.


Boundaries c Notes lint been and ill. II IV.. and V. appear thought necessary beim.

If his to print Notes 1.

NOTE II ; the rales of pay.

etc.. of (lili 1 from the Dublin .Metropolitan Police Vote ALLOWANCES.

(1).

Cllllsi' CoMMISíslONlsK S Ul'lsC'L I Chief Commissioner .

£1,2(11).

£100 per i for travelling, &c 1 Assistant Commissioner £50U-£20-s£600.

£(,-, per for travelling, &c 1 Accountant.

1 Finance Clerk .

£400-£20-£500.

£30»-£15-£380.


3 .Second Division Clerks 1 Principal .Medical Officer £70-£7 I0s.-£130-£10- E300.

£200.

1 Assistant ,, ,, 1 Divisional ,, ,.

Kingston (-) PoLIUL COUBT EsTAIil.lSllMls.Vr 1 Chief Magistrate 2 .Magistrates .

1 Chief Clerk .

li First Class Clerks u .Second Class Clerks •1 Copyists fn .addition to the above Clerks and isls participate servants.

£1,200.

£1,000.

cum E20-£!X)0.

£1S0-£10-B00.

£S"-£7 10s.-£17l to."

special war alio and £lll.


Ihe See..nil the Second Division The am.,unis paid lb-, 11./.

per aiiuu I 'lass Clerk- and the Copy- to civil £20 amounts of salaries in the war bonuses granted r. £13, £18 I-'.

''•/.

ami and vary according tu the TOTE II ceillH mtief .\ Metropolitan Police Ft in; r.ffn, eins 1 Superintend, ni E30O-£20 £425.

Uniform £10.

Sup ■: intendente Station Sergeants Sergeaula S.■.indi m duel Inspecta Sorgeants Detective Mills Constablf I nifonn £10.
Lodging, Un lorm, Lodging, £25.

£10.

£lö.

CI I Is.

8d.

for boots of cmtl refitting uv.n-ci i-tiün £128-£8-£168 £119 12s.

Od.

E104-£2 12s.

(Id.

t;"> 4s.

Od.

till 16s.

Od.

£70 4s.

(M. VI 12 Od.

£3 4s.

(Id.

17 His.

Od.

E83 12s.

Od.

E300-£20 £400 ( lothing, £1 CI 7i i £8 £210 ( lothi cl... £128-£8-£168 Lodgi £104-£5 4-.

Od.

nu im.

Plain (id.

£18 -Is.

Od.

Do.

tin 8 Od.

receive C7 His-, '■.,/_ ,s, I.„less..; aUowanco.

And all nocks bolo« that iliteililelit ni-cixc CI4 tie.

il,l.
il,l.

War lim, s, s « ¡I Is s utra sill,.«son .-I £3 I - ii ' .rried mu, annum in respect of each child .ter .oui E2 12s.

n-/.

pe 1 I,, us, 1017 lishnienl ans £56,242 12a.

£112 416 17s.

n</.

n-ci's .I 3 Parlia ■aiisetl ls\ \|s],|-ii|,i iatii In in,,i„ sslsssiissn Offlei m pensa tion Expensr 'l'Ile amounts ni A]i]irii]ilicitii)lis n i-i i Publicans'Pcdlai Sweepers' I".-.

-.

Incidental lievei 11,042 (i :i 117,118 II 2 <M.

,117 III 5 187 1 10 l.siu- Expenses huiileiilss Travelling Expenses Cliis.
(ir,!i o ;i 47.IÍ2IÍ 2 i.-r.i» 2 .

'¡.¿Il m NOTES OF THE ORAL EVIDENCE OF THE CHIEF COMMISSIONED OF THE DUBLIN METROPOLITAN POLICE.

Tlie Chief Commissioner «¡is appointed by the lie held office al pleasure, Lord Lieutenant.

retired By Statute at <>.">.

and was a Civil Servant.

Im- was a Justice why ol reason this should it may have been of tlie I'e.iee accustomed As a Justiee and was that was all.

He agreed be He knew of no spécial to meet special emer- so.

but gencies.
but gencies.

For instance, he could read the Rioi Act, sign warrants, papers, he a anomaly a warrant, this could not happen Peace IV.. o.

2!).

last paragraph).

he could In sign, pension it would to sign le the ease, hut as Justices <>t the (s I, 6 & 7 Wm- possible and in Dublin, not sit to try cases that for him if it were .111 arrest, order did but local As regards In- del not consider control.

control by a Watch Committee to ht a good system.


and disciplinary It weakened respondbilitv power of the Commissioner. '

Members oi the Watch Committee were liable to he interested in matters coming under police control, for instance the Promotions and Dismissals Ins control.

'['here was no appeal in the case oi by the Chief dismissal, ;, nj-ht Secretary.

of appeal lie saw no objection to the Chief Secretary.

but he infill be overruled wen- under to giving The strength of tul Force was.
generally speaking, sufficienl.

PAY was a little higher than was under inerease than The minimum was slightly lower, the maximum in a. larue Eiiidish considera!

town like the in ion.

R.I.C.

An It was lower .Manchester.

The dost o] che D.M.P.

should be home whoUy He did not think as lone, as central control i thi whol« cost of the police.

hv tin- ivveherpier.

continued.

«■outiv»] was m ion-- ennmdi ■ .

be been no agitation was almost police rate.


eontrol in.vana.hly to make the desire for citi tlie city willing There had for this change, but objection in- loca] to paying the exist taken He was not in favour of partial with tul D.M.P.

The Qi esth>j¡ oi .amalgamation H.I.C—Throwing the whole cost of the should bequer would not imply that t here Dublin lie one Police force for all Ireland.

..rurral lu cases where ■>ssisl •!«■,■ was required applied obtained.
the and There was made It did not fall on the Dublin rates its maxi n mm lii-,|>rrl<ii ■ >f ihr < \o\ eminent special \o the Pol ire rate was alwa\ from to.

¡in difficulty.

payment R.I.C, thf the eonseiit was to the I!.i.C.

because of 8d.

-.at was There might he some gain force for in liuaucial Ireland, simplicity Dublin was not poli heal but The this did change like Bel- and social there were stronger and more socialism, I Ik- disadvantages.
were many m having a. single not w.-iu'li against would be unpopular.

fast.

There differences.

labour or.

; and districts ment of DuUin was peculiar, associations political supported in thi- ■■ ■■ th n i It Was true : i, i -i' !

"!■•* in lîelfast that gre ter contrast with rural ted in Duhlin.

hut the tempera.

There were secref were no the authorities and in th, same way.

Police ,4' forces for special Ail unified force might mo !
'■!,.ni_r single detective ihr detection of crime, but these advantages not warrant detective tin ami a. force mighl be more efficienl for del the D.M.I1, Eorce worked only m its own area.

emergencies At present .indication.

facilitate The Stall was sufficient, not excessive.

Control.

The D.M.P.

should remain under the as in the case of the Central Coverninen!

control of the London Police.

'Il- D e I' --11 wee class a> in Ihr l;.l C .


mcwtlj Earmers' sons, small shop-keepers' son.. of placing &C. Protestant.- was no system in se parti to districts.

and Catholics of the same There Schedule C. POLICK FORCES IN ENGLAND AND WALES Questions were addressed to the Nome Office extracts or figures from the documents in the text.

referred to stitiitinn England and Wales.

A communication of Police Forces in was and administration a«ked and referring a cerl i i pa« et to (1) A (.'!)
The Official Blue Hook on Police for 1914; copies of all these documents being enclosed, The (piestions.

with the answers made to them, are sel OUI Ul order notes have been ad-led.

where necessary, giving below, and lor „immuner Questions County and Borough Police Forces I and 2.

--What are the relations of to the Home (ill ,',■ • Whal are the powers of County and Borough to what if ;m\.

do these powers extend beyond the Councils extent, borders of thi Borough o < ounty Forre.

; Police oxer and the '.


Answers I i td 2 Tin '■..•- ed Memorandum on the Police forces of England and Wales shows the (I) the relations between County and Borough Forces, and (2) the legal the Nome Office and 134 position of the local authorities to these forces.

Attention is specially directed to the marked passages.

* in r<-ard ;i: Note.- The marked passages are as follows : Cni'vi'v Constabulary.

ot isa the half count \ thei;.

Justices between of State.
the general asst m hied and dismisses the Secretary is composed the administrative of the Standing '■ J'or each administrative the direct Any change forces were established of body created the other members government has the authority which the former Police authority representatives torce governed by a Chief Constable, who appoints of the promotes, «if them and force, to subject Joint half of represen- Committee, tatives of in Quarter- of tin county Sessions tlw County and Council, by the Local Government Act, 1888.
The Standing Joint the Chief Constable subject Committee appoints The the approval-of to county 1839 and 1X56 under of State.

force to make ment.

to his approval.

a police Exchequer pay and clothing proceeds for this ever, Secretary the certificate tion forces.

district, "of the men to half from allocated is.

how- the by : if contribu- county Police the head police stations force requiring separately.
certificate the force the Exchequer are now sixty the Metropolitan ; at and govern- arc subject is home of the Secretary of any county This given is eiiieiont rated amounting force to his approval their pay.

supervision in the number is subject rules Plans Counties, are divided that is refused is made revenues ; he is empowered in each division The cost of the is a superinten- into divisions There like is forfeited.
to an annual contribution An the the for county of certain and other protection can be of Slate purposes.

Imperial clothing of the districts Special special subject there local local rate.

for by The divisions Sessional dent.

Petty of magisterial Divisions jurisdiction."

usually eorres|>ond with the formed for the purposes Borough Police.

borough is.

as a general force " Every municipal to establish rule, of police.
the is the a by this county a separate in which for police the county can, however, boroughs with it, and Further, the is done for policing of cases.

are now 127 boroughs with be made with borough in required An arrangement jKiIicc of the situated majority of less than 10,000 were wholly merged population the Local purposes in Government Act, 1888, and no new force can be for a borough having a population established of less than 20,000 at the date of its incorporation.

separate There \Vnir)i forces.


The of the Town Council mittee, which the Chief Con- elected of the force.

stable, the but from The Imperial Government makes an aim mil eontri bution to the amount of one-half from the same as in the ease source, a of county certificate is required, stabulary."

force is a committee constabulary. '


f efficiency the other members annually; and also of State con- the case of this purpose the county the Secretary is defrayed pilice 'on, is managed the same conditions and on appoint funds, by a from local they cost for as in ■ Members of the C.ity the Metropolitan and Borough have the Police Act, 1890; iones a n-hl lo and.
as a Police of towards the pension funds established .in,) pension under contribution the Act, a yearly force under is distributed for each £300,000 subject State the management fund has been satisfactory to a certificate that from from Imperial the Secretary sum oí revenue.

of the of the force and of its during the year.

Question 3.

How does the Home Office main in Police matters 1a.ii i unity of ad mil list ration 1 hroughoul the country 3.

The Home Office can secure some '.


Answer Tor standard instance, authority.

* in Poliee administration i I reaches a certain discipline of women measure of uniformity bv its statutory it can intimate that a force will not be certified efficient contri- and will lose ¡ts share of the Exchequer in point buí ion unless or management.

of numbers, The ap- pointment female to prisoners and (at some places) the proper equip- in ment of mounted It is found, however, that Chief Officers this way.
of Police and local Police authorities are generally the Home Secretary's to adopt ready compulsion tions without actual Examples of this will be found eollection recommenda- being exercised.

the annexed in indice has been Office circulars.

of Home insisted charge take on of Questions 4 and 5.

What oentral Police Force is therefor use in emergencies reserve of in What arrangements tor mut nal assistance arc ?

there between counties Answers 4 and 5.


-There is no central force specially established as a reserve, authorities (see circulars M■( ustomed Most of agreements the Police for to aid each other but the different in emer- authorities have this purpose with neigh- on pages là and Police the Metropolitan of send poliee on pages by the Home a detachment additional The circulars advocated volume!

), able and to to any place where required.

the practice gencies.


standing bouring 72 annexed are constables may be urgently 00-69 Office in regard sometimes show to any serious civil commotion.

Question of detective (i.

What, special organisation "forces (a) central, (b) local ?

is there poliee Answkií Registry, ti.


force Each separately, system, except prisoners and that are kept its own detective of convicted Criminals reference is made the purpose of identification ment exists Metropolitan when See circulars on pages 40 and 70-Î for making Police at Scotland the their services available thereto New by the detective authority organizes there is no central (i.)

the finger prints the''Habitual Yard, local forces and for ; and (ii.)
an arrange- stall' of the districts in other are desired by the local police.

Question 7.

May we have a few general figuras as to the cost of local police forces together wit h police rates and exchequer grants '.

Answer 7.

Table ||.

the enclosed report of H.M.

Inspector of Constabulary for 1014 gives the a mo nul the cost of the Police and in the Appendix to and Bumu^fi the CriniU-y and Borough tliu County of out by two Police Art.

Polire of Constabulary, ISOtj.


tln- is Foire* the for respectively, who report Inspectors districts "(aider iiispection r, nk'd XnrihtTN to iiikI Southern tlie Home Oftice annually.

tThese circulars ¡ii'l.Ml.uetiieiils give model forms of agreement, with fur p;iy.

compensation, jurisdiction, elf.

committed ¡,, tr:iin> M, i".

■■■ for.

called fur assistance and ttie utelul The lain.

,, _, , ,,, :■; ,,.

[)n>t'iv<tlii>n .

;, , ,.


>>l ail eine... ,- for system be said by such long been the Exchequer to work- smoot felt at in poliee adminis- a revision While the lily the Contribution.

* fairly it has of the Exchequer can presen!

and harmoniously, ( tllice that more elliciency Home could tration be secured arrangements towards the Central Control being exercised more effectively.
The proposals made for this purpose were accepted l.\ ItiI I. and will be found on pages 41-43 of then be necessarv report, for curving Lastly, the Treasury Committee it may be mentioned would, into effect.

Legislation them on Local Taxation Contribution the cost of the Police that the need of as would allow of however, of l he in in this table, •Tlie and Wales ti'ttil cost of Police Forces in England in MH.
'I 14. as given was which £2,469,874 was met by Exchequer and £4,2*20,847 mainly of the balance £630 280 from miscellaneous Table III.

gives the "Net Cost" of Police in England and Wales as £5,011.272.

This tional constables, payments Eor rent, rates, of buildings, of addi- taxes, purchase etc., and any deficiency of the Police Pension £7,327,001, Contributions.

rates, sources.

excludes received services li:;mv from local sums for <>.
13fí There appears scales of pay adopted co-ordination between the different Police Forces in England has become specially apparent in regard to (j.)

the enforcement nf the Defence of the Realm Regulations and orders made under them, and (ii.)

in the difficult position thai ha-, been created by war conditions with respect to the varying \>y the several police forces and the allowances paid from Police to be a widespread opinion Funds.
among Chief Officers of Police thai they should have more guidance ( Hlice in from regard at all events to questions of the first men- tioned class, and it- is also thought the com- petition to forces by means of instructions pay might from time conferences and Borough police forces are being arranged with the help of the Home Office, and though the dilliculties in the way Of any complete co-ordination under the that some existing progress towards the agency of informal con - ferences.
it may be effected through and that ¡n regard law arc very great, between different these voluntary the Countv I»* restarted it is hoped the present the Home the Home between (»[lire.

At APPENDIX XVI.

BEPOET 01 THE ROUSING COMMITTEE (I.C.

No.

33).

(Adopted In Convention ..is 5th April, 1918.)

Scope oí the Inquiry.


Extent of the shortage in Dublin, the case ot Dublin, official Bgures ar I'., consider, with reference to the letter, under what eon- e Minister's (-an Ist-st lie sec (iovernment to Housing assistance in Ireland in urban areas ave also lis,si sub- l.cilissiir !

'e|n'esen1ss- Iss is.

...I 1.1 |sris\-icci, us .■ili.'ii'l.

deal- were cimier l.s the rapidl; (|Ulf|s .il !..


sabl, us ciil-iite estilnale sich would be ol lise exls'llt to Iss met, sind to submit fill- (leillillCC to s.t' I In pro (01011111 I;.,\c lllltil for which we were appointed withotv it ill Ills- VSU'vitlg ft si' Us tO fulfil considered of dirTs-rent it is (isiSSilili- \Y.is.sd.i.

Inealiiies.

W'itll 'lie an enquiry of mi elaborate nature.

i.1 p'SSSlls stances evef, objects undertaking that sis us ts.

provide K» families.


The us ii.sngll to allow i prepared by Mr. ; Inspector the Repot t is a con- to make st liberte to living, Isssv.. in'i'ii el.iseil by the Corporation, ils si.iliiloi-v ]i..\\'eis.

the same In three hundred period bouses, ■ .hi have erected and twenty-seven smaller number has been erected by other agencies.

Mr. if Cowan, 14,000 new- houses were in ID!

i. sil least 16,500 sire required al the presenl and si very much to the conclusion tiu-t-s.fiirs-.
conies in Dublin required that thai tin b, .. of op, .

si fair of snide Extent of the shortage in urban areas.

I.

The Departm.

ntal Committee of 1014, w The shortage of houses in urban areas notorious.

■ils,I proble sill bands, and il remains ugh s.sli,,eile ol ifs extent.

, i ii.

we su,il ■• ,.- Isold, ¡ained probl lllllsl I.

'"I thai in us..-' ... |.. 'In!- ad, ii tap ws ild ; l.v analysing them over again in detail."
We believe thai the Committee were right in holding that si scarcib of working all towns in Ireland, lo which it must in different places.

The case of Dublin, with ils large tene- ment for the purpose which they have been made !..

ssavs suai generalh in a bad state of repair, peculiar.

exists the causes sue different lions..s badly adapted In- attributed houses though Bui in oilier towns other is perils.

|,racticall\ ,-lass have causes in lo*: aiid to an action.
serious developments, in building i^ sufficient^ I'licrgetii' brought about a scarcity of suitable accommoda- tion whicli, if not so acute as it.

¡s known to lu.- m to call for imme- Dublin, diate airas the, Ju certain difficulty has arisen Erom an increase in popula- tion owing unaccom- industrial increase panied construction.
bi Everywhere, of the difficulty carrying oui housing schemes on a paying basis has houses the keeping pace wiih the détérioration of older ones, the have We ascertained index by can be which as such measured, to the charge of exaggerating the difficulties of the position.

the need of the rest of the country however, for Dublin a omr-e might not as an impossibility const ruction lav us open prt vented of new figures to use anxious, been or Figures for the county boroughs.
the best after information consultation ■">.

From aide Id obtain, cipal age of working class dwellings eounti boroughs as follows:— we estimate authorities, that we have been with the existing the muni- short- in the remaining Belfast Cork ... ... ... ... 7,500 ... 1,250 Londonderry ...

Limerick Waterford ... ... ... ... ... 1,000 2. cum 700 a us a total deficiency tor the County Boroughs of 28,950.

Estimate of the shortage in other urban areas.


is to of and new thirty house towns the and if we apply in Ireland 0.

Tbe population just arrived that population.

twenty-nine of the County Boroughs the ninety urban districts the population to this population at for the County Boroughs, is aboui B75.000, and the total number of new houses in the Comity Boroughs works out at required one In municipal aboui 514,250, í'iginr the namely, even the nine!
ien towns houa - required amounts satisfied for to and of new to 20,475.

We feel this figure does not err on the side The conditions the sro ill i xceedingl^ bad, and there are plací - ■ hich do not come within the term " urban areas," one new house of one hundred number thirty conclusion the population, in the strictly is required these total in some of we come owns a that the that in legal sense, wh.

Amongst Boroughs, w.I thus ascertained such we nun mention Kildare, Tralee, and Mullingar.
Adding the figures to, the total for th i Countv a gn ml total of 19,425 sav, 50,000.
We have, however, it well to check In total number of " third as 247,025 town population mav be taken at one-third (•his figure bj another method of calculation, the Census of 1911, the Pnd fourth class houses" The is pven though* if we and that between ' population fo population, of the country, these houses are equally distributed, assume according town and coun- try we arrive al a figure of about 85.000 as the in 1011 to be replacer!
nf houses number Tn the seven by tmw buildings years which the Census was have taken, rather than requiring in the elapsed the need has probablv towns.

since grown greater less.


Taking a mean of tbe results of tbe two methods ol calculation will be reasonable of new working-class urban areas important, should be taken estimate in however, adopted, we are of opinion to estimate houses urgently at it the number in required Il is Ireland that 67,500. that an Barlj opportunity at a more accurate of arriving hy means of a detailed enquiry.

Estimate of cost.

7.

Fuder existing conditions, the average cost o!


th : including dwellings, working-class land, the development of sites and the actual less cannot cost of construction, W, tl us arrive al an pounds.

tii,m tour lunched of Of fe-27.iKm.CHHl as the total estimad capital expenditure housing problem required in urban areas he put at much in Ireland.

to deal alnGUIIÏ Degree of Government assistance required.
s. Wi procei I to consider what degree oi iinan- \v.Y ' V ' " n •'; :■■■ toi totherecom- lidrlltia clearK to US eon establishes of working-class IK .

but We ma v s:i\ the fact that houses eated the report construction economic basis les become practically without and the war construction b1 m.büll considerable that the on an impossible assistance, since that has bo nenrly come to a the deficiency, which was already in 1914, is increasing at a rapid rate.
Government that Degree of assistance proposed in England and Wales.

1).

The English Local Government Board have issued on which a circular to give financial the < rovernment with assistance the undertaking of housing schemes.

This circular contémplales of indicating is prepared bo local authorities by the (íovernment in connection the provision terms the ■ of the sufficient loan charg ■ in connection to relieve local esti- of per cent, the the such with authority mated schemes of seventy-five deficit.
annual More liberal assistance required in Ireland.

Ki We feel :t necessan to say at once that the inadequate We under- ; -ed would i the circumstances be altogether of Ireland.

largely accentuated lias been areas has been very to me stand thai in Greai Britain the problem of housing in urban by causes due to the war.

There have been very large movements of population to localities where Hele activity, and the normal provision of working- has ceased class houses and ■■ for half years.
The increase in in the rate of interest in Ihe cost of all kinds of building wages and materials has resulted in raising the cost of con- struction by probably not less than sixtj per cent a great industrial the past growth three of S 138 designed therefore, presumably, No such assumption of working class accommodation The proposals of the English Local Government Board are, to meet a situation which has been, due to special causes arising out of the war, and are based upon the assumption that, but for those causes, it would have been possible for local authorities to supply re- the amount quired.
in the case of Ireland, where already before the war, it was clear that the problem had reached dimen- sions altogether the resources of the local re- authorities.

quired was not to a sufficient there must extent, he a subsidy to the local authority well, below if a serious attempt is to be made to deal with the problem.
As the provision of the houses on the basis of pre-war cost, the cost the pre-war cost, can be justified found possible, sufficient to brins beyond an in proportion of the principles In extension this connection we would re- forthcoming.

em- commend bodied in the " Clancy Act " of 1908.

Under that Act the income of the Housing bund is dis- tributed among local authorities to in respect of loans raised by them the charges the Act for housing purposes.
We recom- under should be given in mend that equal assistance respect of loans for similar purposes be- fore the passing of the Act of 1908.

To afford relief, the income of the Fund will re- substantial increased.

quire to be substantially that further in the working- We classes in- creased facilities for acquiring on easy terms as regards security and payment of instalments, the ownership of the houses in which they live, when the scheme which such houses are provided under we contemplate.
recommend areas be afforded incurred should urban Degree of assistance proposed for Ireland.

General principles of policy.

be !■■ that that should essential to reach to consider the years immediately be reduced.

to be met.

has already made 11.


We are disposed to enable working-class the needs of the situation throwing If this condition assistance fifty per cent, of the In that Parliament liberal cottages the pre-war level, the amount of assistance could also probably it the degree necessary will be not total capital cost, following the war.

to decline, in subse- from the It suffi- any but a small charge is not satisfied, are never this connection we may com- providing Ireland.
ol Government less than during As the cost of building may be expected though not quent years, Government is, however, large ciently erected without rates.

on local we fear that likely point out paratively labourers' Under rowed for the provision of such cottages of three both and interest period of sixty-eight charge provided the Acts has given general needs of the urban population more pressing, tending than ance population.
rural which we have bruises circumstances cost out may will be approximately 627,000,000; and that it loan will be necessary for ex- to them a more generous degree of assist- the at of so soon as could be bor- at a rate per cent., which covered sinking fund charges, for a and a half years, apd of this is paid out of funds of the general is that in urban of at 67,500; provision in rural Acts, money being now certainly justification to conclusion the number that which has been granted fco be erected admit The working and, areas i- the for fifty per cent, thirty-six by the Government.
and a quarter the Labourers satisfaction, the work per cent, is ampio be put of the arrived there anas total The that for in be hoine by the Central Government,.

Assistance in respect of past loans.

dation that a measure need not be so to local authorities incurred to make 12.
We are further of opinion which should be given respect of loans already We are impelled in view of the heavy burden which of large as fiftv in for housing pur- this recommen- such and be- which cause have made a serious effort to cope with the prob- be unfairly lem in the past would those which have penalised, assistance was deferred in comparison with action until Government local rates, the local authorities thrown upon that we consider otherwise that 13.
The time at our disposal has rendered it im- possible for us to frame a general policy for regu- the provision of urban housing.

We are, lating it is for the Govern- of opinion moreover, to approve any ::■■■ and for Parliament it is right that such policy.

We think-, however, that we should indicate certain general prin- to be followed.
ciples which ought, it would be impossible, or, We recognise sys- to apply a uniform the provision of urban housing through- agency In some cases the work in at any rate, undesirable, tem and entrust accommodation out the whole of Ireland.

can best be undertaken by the local authority, to any particular in our opinion, that Public utility Societies, or private of In the that area the than from other every certain to private authorities or agencies, over a larger local conditions.
special circumstances the approval and general control should, as a rule, of enterprise ; and setting up a new Dublin may even necessitate authority which would be able to extend its of the operations existing municipality.

But we think that it is possible to leave room for the application of all general these, systems, while observing that-, whatever be principles.
We are of opinion task of con- the the actual agency undertaking rest struction, with the local authority, and that the financial the Government assistance should be given recommended owners or ties, i o the rents therefore, for the general policy adopted, in which it is carried of a local authority obligations on the analogy of the provisions contained Labourers Acts, for the Government and provide quired.
We do not think that which we have to such authori- subject as to ease, local authority will be responsible the manner however, its there should be power, in the to intervene re- it should be fco sel up a new department of Govern- a in this direction would the staff of the Local Govern- it should the that involve ment Board.

We are of opinion he a condition of Government site and arrangement the accommo- to be charged dation should to the occupiers the approval of the Local Government- Board.
Wo think in all these matters elas- there ticity as possible, and that scope should be given in methods of construction, de- for experiments of the houses, and the rents receive to deal with Housing, out.
neglecting should be as much "ease increasing that, assistance accommodation in the matter, the additional to be provided, In the event, to discharge in activity no doubt, though, ment and that 139 We provided high standard to be built on any given area, and of accommodation note that Board have im- should to the number tbe in each Local English laid it down as a condi- that not more than sign of houses, etc., but it is of the greatest portance that a reasonably be insisted upon, both with regard of houses amount dwelling.
Government tion of Government twelve houses the most and there suitable dwelling with two or three bedrooms, a scullery and a bath- A certain proportion of houses with a parlour, or a fourth bedroom should be pro- vided.

that type of house is a self-contained a kitchen, shall be built on one acre of land ; is a consensus of opinion assistance the Reduction of cost of acquiring land.

this law, constitute 14.


Under the existing the legal expenses and delays connected with the acquisition of land for bousing purposes a serious obstacle to the carrying out of schemes.
We do not desire to overburden dis- cussion and we are to record our opinion that these expenses and delays can be and ought to be reduced, and that the machinery of the " vesting order " adopted in the Land Purchase Acts would seem to be applicable to the acquisition of land for housing purposes, and would be attended by the advantage of ensuring report with a technical therefore content The distribution prompt possession and security of title at a low- cost.
interested the amount due, should be entrusted Government among of to a Local as well as th.- ascertainment of compensation arbitrator.

parties, Board Conclusion.

15.

In thy Prime Minister's the Government would be prepared letter, which we quoted al the beginning of this Report, he stated that to con- sider the inclusion in any scheme of settlement of a substantial provision for dealing with this problem.
In the event of an Irish Parliament and Govern- ment being established, we are, therefore, of opinion should have placed at its disposal an annual sum of money sufficient to meat fifty per cent, of the loan charges which will be incurred, in this lîeport if the recommendations that Parliament are accepted.

that L. O'NEILL, Lord Mayor of Dublin, Chairman of Committee R. V. Verxon, Secretary of Committee, 3rd April, 1018.

S 2 140 APPENDIX XVII.

DIVISION LISTS.

DIVISION No.

1—12th MABCH, 1918.

(-See pp.


28 and 108, supra).

FOE (38).

E, H. Andrews.

W. Broderick.

• I. J. COEN.

i).

condken.

Karl of Desaht.

.1.

DOOLY.

Captain Doran.

Archbishop T. Fallón.

of Dublin.

.1.

Fl'iZOIBBON.

Sir W. Coulding.

or Granard.

Karl Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

.1.

McCakbok.

M. McDonogh.

.

).

McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMi i.len.

of Mayo.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

.1.

M iiii'iiv.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.


Lord Oranmore '.'Scllivan.

Dr. and Browni ,).

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Provost of Trinity College Sir S. B. Quin.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

C. F. Stewart.

H. T. Whitley.

Sir Y>.

Windle.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

Archbishop of Armagh.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Darrie.

Lord .Mayor c Bklfast.

J.

B OLG ER.

Archbishop ot ■ Cashkl.

Sir G. Clark.

Colonel J. Clabk.

Lord Mayor < Cork.

Col. Sharman-Craw'ford.

J. Devlin.

of Down Bishop T. Duggan.


and Coj H. Gabahan.

Wi J. Hanna.

J. K. Kett.

M. E. Knigbt.

Marquis of Londonderry.

J. S. F. McCahcb.

Sir C. McCullagh.

.1, McGarry.

H. G. MacGbagh.

J. McHugh.

Moderator General Assembly.

W. M. Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill.

P. OH.

Puters.

H. M. Pollock.

Bishop of Raphoe.

T. Toal.

Sir W. Whitla.

Ul DIVISION No.

2—13th MAECH, 1918.

(See pp.

28 and 109, supra).

FOR (39).

AGAINST (33).

or Dublin.

Goulding.

ok Desart.

E. I!.

ANDREWS.

W. B-RODEUICK.


,1.

J. COEN.

1).

< lONDREN.

1'.

Dempsey.

Earl .1.

Dooly.

Captatn Doran.

Archbishop T. Fu.bA.

J. Fitzgibbon.

Sip, William Earl of Granard.

Captain Gwynn.

T. H ILLIGAN.

A. Jameson.

\V.

Kavanagh.

,1.

M< ('AKRON.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

Lord MaoDo.nn.ell.

C. McKay.

A. IÎ.

MacMtjllen.

Earl Viscoi NT Midleton.

.1.

Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C P. O'Neill.

Limn Oranhore Dr. O'Sulltvan.

J.

¡î.

Powell.

T. Power.

Provost Sir S. B. Qtjin.

I").


Reilly.

M. Slattbry, G. F. Stewart.

K. T. WlUTLEY.

IÏ.

Windle.

Sir of Mayo.

and Brow OF TRINITY CoiXEG of Cashel.

of Abercorn.

Sharman-Crawford.

J. J. Clark .Mayor of Cork.

Duke .Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor of Belfast, J. BOLGER.

Archbishop Su: G. Clark.

Colonel Lord Colonel Bishop of Down and Connor.

.Mayor of Dublin.

Lord H. Garahan.

J. Hanna.

T. J. Harbison.

■ I. K. Kett.

M. E. Marquis T. London.


•I.

S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullaoh.

11.

G. MacGeagh.

J.. McHugh.

Moderator W. M. -Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill.

P. O'H.

Peters.

H. M. Pollock.

Bishop T. Toal.

Colonel Sir YV.

Whitla.

of Londonderry.

R. H. Wallace, of Raphoe.

General Knight.

Assembly DIVISION No.

3—13th (See p. 109, supra).

MARCH, 1918. of Cashel.

of Belfast.

J. J. Clark.

of Abercorn.

Iî.

N. Anderson.

Duke Sir H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor -I. BOLGER.

W. Broderick.


Archbishop Sir C. Clark.

Colonel D. Condren.

Lord Mayor Colonel Sharman-Crawford P. Dempsey.

J. Dooly.

Captain Doran Bishop T. Fallón.

J. PlTZGIBBON.

H. Garahan.

William T of Cork.

H vlligan.

Gubbins.

AGAINST (44).

J. Hanna.

J. K. Kett.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

T. Lundon.

J. S. F. McCance.

Su; C. McCullagh.

U G. MacGeagh.

.1.

McHtjgh.

Moderator W. M. Murphy.

P. J. ONeill.

Dr. O'Scllivan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

H. M. Pollock.

T. Power.


General of Raphoe.

Bishop M. SLATTBRY.

T. Toal.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

, R. H. Wallace.

Down and Connor.

Provost of Trinity College.

Assembly.

FOR (27).

of Dublin.

of Desart.

E. 11.

Andrews.

.1 .1 COBH Earl Archbishop Sir W. Goulding.

Earl of Granard.

Captain Gwynn.

a. Jameson.

\V.

Kavanagh.

-I.

.M< Carrón.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

C. McKay.

A. li.

MacMullen.

of Mayo.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

.Murphy.

A.

.1.


O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore .1.

B, Powell.

Sir S. B. Qtjtn.

1).

Reilly.

G. V. Stewart.

H. T. Whttley.

Sut 1-b Windle.

and lb 142 DIVISION No.

4^14th MARCH, 1918.

(See p. HIS.

supra).

FOB (36).

AGAINST (33).

of Cashel.

of Cork.

and C of Down of Granard.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lobd Mayor P. Dempsey.

J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.


H. Garahan.

Earl WlLLLAM GUBBINS.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

J. K. Kett.

T. LUNDON.

J. McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

J. McHugh.

C McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

J. Mürphy.

V\.

M. -Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

Dr. O'Sulliyan.

T. Power.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

Sir B. Windle.

of Raphoe.

of Armagh.

of Belfast.

-1.

.1.

< ¡lark.

Sharman Crawford.

Goulding.

ok Londonderry.

of Abercorn.

Ii.

X. Anderson.

of Desart.

Duke Si: E. H. Andrews.


Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barkíe.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Colonel Earl Su; William J. H anna.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis .1.

S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

Lord MacDonnell.

H. G. MacGeagh.

Karl Viscount Midleton.

Moderator Lord Oranmore H. M. Pollock.

J.

B. Powell.

Provost Sir S. Ii.

Quin.

G. F. Stewart.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

H. T. Whitley.

of Mayo.

General Assembly.

and Browne.


of Trinity College.

R. H. Wallace.

DIVISION No.

5—14th MARCH, 1918.

(¿lee pp.

25 and 108, supra).

AGAINST (21).

of Cashel.

of Cork.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

.1.

Coen.

J. d. condren.

Ford Mayor P. Dempsey.

J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

of Granard.

Earl William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

of Down T. Halligan.

J. K. Kett.

T. LUNDON.

J. McCarron.


M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

J. McHugh.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

J. Murphy.

and Ci , W. M. Murphy.

• J. O'Dowd.

Dr. O'Sullivan.

T. Power.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

S r B. Windle.

of Raphoe.

of Aemagh.

of Belfast.

Sharman-Crawford.

of Abercorn.

li.

N. Anderson.

Duke Sir Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

I Iolos hl -I.

-I. Clark.

Colonel M. K. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

.1.


S. F. MoCanoe Sir C. McCullach.

H. G. MacGeagh.

Moderator General Assbmbl H. M. Pollock, Provost Sir S. B. Quin.

Colonel Sir W. Winri H. T. Whitley.

R, 11, Wallace.

of Trinity COLLEGE l DIVISION No.

G—14th MABCH, 1918.

(See pp.

24 and 110, supra).

AGAINST (18).

of Belfast.

.1.

J. Clark.

\.

Anderson.

of Abercorn.

( George Clark.

Duke Sir R. H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir .Colonel Col. Sharman-Crawford.

J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.


Marquis of Londonderry.

.1.

S. F. .MoCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

Moderator General Assembly.

H. M. Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

R. H. Wallace.

W. Kavanagh.

.1.

K. Kett.

T. LUNDON.

.1.

McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

.1.

McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl of Mayo.

Viscount Midleton.

.1.

Murphy.

.1.

0'Dowd.

C I'.

DXeILL.

1'.

.1.

O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore Dr. OSullivan.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S, II, Quin.


Bishop of Raphoe, D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

II.

T. Whitley.

and Browne.

.

Windle.

of Armagh.

of»Cashel, of Cork.

of Dublin.

of Desart.

K. H. Andrews.

Archbishop J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

J. Coen.

J. D. Condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Archbishop T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

J. FlTZCIBBON.

■I.

Flanagan.

Sir W. Goulding.

of Granard.

Earl Gubbins.

Wllliam Captain Gwynn.


J. Halligan.

T. I. Harbison.

A. Jameson.

DIVISION No.

7—15th MARCH, 1918.

(See p. 110, supra).

FOR (19).

of Armagh.

of Belfast.

J. J. Clark.

Selabma» i Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

Archbishop H. ¡1.

Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir O. Clark.

Colonel Colonel J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G, MacGeagh, Moderator H. M Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

R. H. Wallace.


General .\-s km hi.

v of Cork.

of Desart.

of Cashel.

E. H. Andrews.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

Archbishop J.

-I. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

Lord Mayor I'.

De.MPSEY.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop of Down and Connor.

Archbishop Lord Mayoh T, Duggan.

T. Fallón.

-I. Fitzgibbon.

-I. Flanagan.

I ¡ .

C, MtAlIAN.

Earl of Granard.

William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

T. J. Harbison.

A. Jameson.

\V.

Kavanagh, ut' Dublin.

of Dublin.

of Mayo.


.MacDonnell.

J. K. Kett.

T. LUNDON, 'AKRON.

J. Md Al.

McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

Lord C. McKay.

A. R. Mac-Mullen.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

P. J. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore Dr. o'Sullivan.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

H. T. Whitley.

Sir B. Windle.

of Raphoe.

and Bro\vne 114 DIVISION No.

8—15th MARCH, 1918.

(Set pp.


24 and 110, supra).

FOR (51).

AGAINST (19).

of Cashel of Desart.

Doran.

of Down E. H. Andrews.

J. BOLGER.

W. B» iDERICK.

Archbishop J J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

Lord Mayob of Cork.

P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Bishop Archbishop Lord Mayor T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

J.

.Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

Earl William Captain T. Halligan.

T. J. Harbison.

W Kavanagh, of Granard.

Gubbins.

GwtNN.

of Dublin.

m» a of Dublin. '

I, S. Clark.


of Belfasi J, J. Clark, of Armagh, i ii Ki'.

m-- Abercorn.

Sib R. X. Anderson.

Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barril.

Lord Mayor Sd3 Colonel ( lOLONEL ShARMAN-( I: \ W I J. Hanna M. E. Knight.

MaRQL'IN J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G MacGeagh.

Moder nop.

General Assi H. M. Pollock.

Coloi Sir W. Whitla.

i ¡.

lb H. Wallace or' I.ONDONDERÏ ani J. K. Kett.

T. LUNDON.

•I.

McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

C McKay.


A, R. M wMULLEN.

Earl Vls< oint J. Murphy.

of Mayo.

Midleton.

J. .

W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

P, oXlill.

Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sulltvan.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir s B. Qutn.

Bishop D. Reilly'.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

H. T. Whitley.

of Raphoe.

DIVISION No.

9—15th MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

24 and 110, supra).

AGAINST (13).

J. J. Ci um Duke or AbercorNí H. p.. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Sib G. Clark.

Colonel M. E. Knight.

.1.


S. K, McCan« e Sir C. Mot1!

llagh, H. G. MacGeagh.

Modes itob < íenee \i.

Ass H. M. Pol.Loi Colonel Sib W. V\ R. H. W u lai K. i of Mayo, .1.

McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnei C McKay.

A. R. MacMulle] Earl Viscount Medley .1.

Murphy.

W. .M.

Murphy.

c P. O'Neill, P. J O'Neill, Lord Oranmore O'Scllivan.

Dr. .1 B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. B, Bishop of D. Reilly.

M. Slattery G. F. Stewa H. T. Whitl uin.

i: Sir B. Windle.

of <>f Desart.

Doran.

■ I. BOLGER.


W. Broderick.

•I.

-I. I 'lanoy.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl i Iaptain J Fitzgibbon.

.1.

Flanagan.

If.

< I 1 RAHAN.

Earl oj <-canlri William Gubbins ( apta1n T. Halligan.

T J. Harrison.

W. Kavanagh.

J. K. Kett T. LUNDON, J. McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

gwynn.

DIVISION No.

10—Ióth .MARCH, 1918.

[See p. 110, supra).

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

.1.

.1.

Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

Lord Mayor of Cork.

P. Dempsey.

J. Dooly.

Bi Lord Mayor T. Duggan.

J. Fitzgibbon.


J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

William Gubbins.

of Dub Dov of Armagh.

of Belfast J. J. Clark.

of Granard.

Duke of Abercorn.

Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Earl of Desart.

Captain Doran.

Earl •I.

Hanna.

A. Jameson.

M. E. Knight.

J. S. F. MoCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

J McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

H. G. MacGeagh.

C. McKay.

A. E. MacMullen.

Earl of Mayo.

Lo Or H. M. Pollock I. T?.

Powell.


Sir S. B. Quin G. E. Stewart Col. H. H. Wa Sin W. Whitla H. T. Whitley .J.

Harbison.

T. Halligan.

I. W. Kavanagh.

J. K. Kett.

T. London.

J. McC AKRON.

M. McDonogh.

J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

C P. O'Neill.

P. J. O'Neill.

Dr. O'Sullivan.

T. Pow P. I s D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

Sir B. Windi c r: \ DIVISION No.

11— 15th MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

-2c> and no.

supra).

FOR (40).

AGAINST., (15).

of Cork.

and Conn, of Dublin.

of Down of Desart.

•I.


Bolgeb.

W. Broderick.

• I.

.1.

Clancy J.

.1.

('„EN.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly-.

í 'a i -ta i n Doran.

Bishop Lord Mayos T. Dr,CO • I. Fitzgibbon.

• I. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

Eabl of Granard.

William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. H II MOAN.

T. A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

J. K. Kett.

.1.

Harbison.

in.

of Belfast.

J. J. Clark.

of A*bercorn.

Duke H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sip, G. Clark.

Colonel J. Hanna.


M. E. Knight.

-I. s. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

Moderator General Assem H. M. Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

R. H. Wallace.

T. Lundon.

■ Í. McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

May'o.

and Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sullivan.

■ I.

B. Powell.

P. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop of Raphoe.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.


H. T. YVhitley Sir B. Windle.

DIVISION No.

12—15th MARCH, 1918.

(Sti ¡,p.

2~, am!

110. supra).

AGAINST (15).

Doran.

of Cork.

of Desart.

J. BOLGER.

W. Broderick.

J. J. Clancy.

J. J. COEN, Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Karl J. Dooly.

Captain Bishop of Down and Connor.

Lord Mayor T. DUGGAH J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

of Granard.

Earl William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

T. J. Harbison.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh .1.

K. Kett.


of Dublin.

of Mayo.

T. Lundon.

.1.

McCarron.

M. McDonogh .1.

McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

C. McKay.

A. I!.

MacMuixen.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill.

Loud Oranmore Dr. O'Sulliyan.

J.

B. Powell T. Powder.

Sir S. B. Qbtn.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

(i. P. Stewart.

H. T. Whitley.

Sir B. Windle.

of Raphoe.

and Brow> of Belfast.

-I.

.1.

< 'lark.

of Abercorn.

Dike H. B.

ArmstIsON.;.


H. T. Barril Lord Mayor Su; G. Clark.

Colonel J. Hanna.

M, E. Knight.

.1.

S. K. Mi I Sir C McCullagh.

H. G. Ma« I Moderator h. m. pollo» Colonel Sip.

W. Whitla.

k General Assembly.

P. H. Wallace.

DIVISION No.

13—15th MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

25 aild 111, supra).

AGAINST (lb).

Duke of Abercorn.

H. B.

Arms' H. T. Barrie.

J. J. Clark.

•J.

Haï M. E. Knight.

J. S. F, McCance.

Sir c. McCullagh.

II.

G. MacGeagh.

Moderator General Assemrt.y 11.


M. Pollock.

Cm.. R. Sir W Whitla.

11.

Wallace.

FOR (45).

T. Lundon.

J. McCarron.

J. McDonnell.

Lord McDonnell.

C. McKay.

A, R. MacMullen, of Mayo.

Earl Viscount Midleton J. MüRpnv.

W. M. Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore and Dr. O'Sulliyan.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop lb Reilly M. Slattery.

a. F Stewart.

II.

T. Whitley.

Su: H. Windle.

of Raphoe.

of C ; Dksakt.

W. Broderick.

J. J. Clancy.

J. J.

Corn.


Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

of Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop of Down T. DUGGAN.

J. Fitzgibbon, .1.

Flanagan.

H. Garahan, of Granard Earl William Gubbins Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

T. J. Harbison.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh .1.

K. Kett.

DIVISION No.

14—19th MAEOH, 1918.

[Sir ¡>.

I 14. supra).

FOR (22).

of Belfast.

J. Clark.

J. Sharman-Crawford.

Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.


Colonel Colonel Sir W. A. Jameson.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis J. S. F. McCanoe.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

Viscount Midleton.

Goulding of Londonderry.

MoDlcitAH.

M. iGexk Assembly of Cork.

of Desart.

of Cashel.

M. K. Barry.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor I'.

Dempsey.

Earl .1.

Devlin J. Dooly.

Captain Bishop of Down and Connoi Lord Mayor T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

.1.

Fitzgibbon.


J. Flanagan.

Garahan.

II.

Earl William Captain Gwynn.

of Granard.

Gubbins.

of Dublin.

Doran.

T. Halligan.

T. J. Harbison.

W. Kavanagh.

I. K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

J. McCarron.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McGarry.

-I. McHugh.

C Ms Kay.

A. R. MacMullen.

-I. Murphy.

W. J. O'Dowd.

P. Dr.

!

'.

0 ■T.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

i íisHop of Raphoe.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

T. Toal.

M T. Whitley.

J. O'Neill.

O'Sullivan.

it.

Peters.

M. Murphy.

Sir Tí.

Windle.


DIVISION No.

15—1SITH MARCH, 1918.

(See ¡i.

114, supra).

FOB (38).

AGAINST (23).

I luKE 01 Abercorn.

E. H. Andrews.

M. K. Barry.

■I.

Bolger W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

•1.

J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

D. CONDREN.

Lobs Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

I Iaptain Doran.

T. Duggan.

T. Fallos.

-!.

Fitzgibbon.

I. Flanagan.

Sir W. Goulding of Desart.

of Cork.

of Mayo.

T. Halligan.

W. Kavanagh.

T. Lundon.

Lord MacDonnell.

C. McKay.

A.


B. MacMullen Earl J. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

Dr. O'Sullivan.

-T. B. T. Power.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

H. T. Whitley.

Sir B. Windle.

Powell.

Sharman-Crawford.

of Dublin.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lstici, .Mayor of Belfast.

Suc G. Clark.

( oi.sixEL J. J. Clark.

Colonel Archbishop J. Hanna A. Jameson.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

.1.

S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

11.

G. MacGeagh.

Viscount Midleton.


Moderator General Assembly.

Lord Oranmore il M. Pollock.

and Browne.

i Trinity College.

Sir S. B. Quin.

Colonel Sik W. Whitla.

E. H. Wallace.

T2 DIVISION No.

10—19th MARCH, 1918.

(Sec i>.

115.

supra.)

FOP, (29).

of Cork.

of Cashel.

M. K. BARRY.

J. BOLGER.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archbishop -I. J. Clancy.

J. I. COEN.

1).

Condrbn.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl .i.

Devlin.

J. Dooly.

Captain Bishop of Down and Connor.

Lord Mayor <se Dublin.

'1'.


DüGGA" 'I.

Falls,.- J. Fitzgibbon.

J, Flanagan II Garahan.

I-.a of Des art.

Doran.

S'ARP Knight.

of Dublin.

of Armagh.

II.

Andrews.

J. I. Clark.

Sir R. X. Anderson.

E. Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor op Belfast.

Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Colonel Sharman-Crawford.

Arghrishop Sir Wm.

Goulding.

,7.

H ANNA.

A. Jameson.

M. E. Marquis J. S. F. J. McCareon.

Sir C McCollagh.

H. G. Ms-cGeagh.

A. V,.

MacMdllen.

Viscount Midleton.


Moderator General As Lord Oranmore R. M. Pollock.

Provost G. F. Stewart.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

H T. Whitley.

of Londonderry.

It, Canoe B. H. Wallace.

of Trinity College.

Ma .

\, ; 11 W. Ka J, K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

Lord Mai Donn J. McGarry.

J. McHugh, C. McKay.

Ba J. Murphy.

William M Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

P. .1.

O'Neill.

O'Scllivan.

Dr. P. O'H.

Peters.

.7.

B. Powell.

T Power Sir Bishop 7).

lii.ii.i.v.

M. Slattery.

T. Toal.

Sir B. Windle.


s. B. Quin.

of Eai-hoe.

DIVISION No.

17—1'Itii MARCH.

1918 {See ¡a 115. supra).

FOR (18).

J. Clark.

of Belfast.

of Abercorn.

Duke Sir B. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

J.

Colonel Colonel Sharman-Crawford.

J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

Moderator Gênerai H. M. Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

B. H. W, sie Cashel.

E. H. Andrews.

K. Barry.


M. J. Bolger.

W. Broderiok.

■ I. Butler Archbishop .7.

.7.

Clancy.

.7.

.7.

Coen !>.

C.sNISREN.

Lord Mayor I'.

Dempsey.

Earl .

:.

Devlin .

!.

Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop of Down and Cos of Desart.

sse t lORK Lord Mayor of 1 'ublin.

T. Duggan.

1'.

I'm los .1.

Fit/.,..

IT.

Garahan.

Earl of Granard.

Wii.i.iav, Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn T Halligan.

T. J. Ha A. Jameso W. Kavanagh.

J. K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

J. McCarron.

Loris MacDonnell.


J. McGarry.

J. McHugh.

C. McKay.

A.

B. MacMii.i.en.

Karl of Mayo.

Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

P. J. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore and Br Dr O'Sullivan.

P. oil .1.

B. Powell.

'I'.

Power Sir S. B. Qcin.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M, Slattery.

c, F. Stewart.

T. T,,al.

11 T VmiTI.EY.

of Raphoe.

Peters.

DIVISION No.

18—19th MARCH, 1918.

(See p. 1 lo.

supra).

FOR (57).

AÇAIN8T (18).

of Cashel Düke of Abercorn.


E. H. Andrews.

M. K. Barry.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

-1.

Butler.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl -I. Devlin.

J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop of Down and Connc Arütiiushoi- Lord Ma T. Duggan.

T. Fallo.-;.

■7.

Fitzgibbon.

II.

Garahav.

of I Iesart.

ok Dublin.

of Cork.

IV Gubbins.

William Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

T. J. Harbison.

of Belfast.

J. J. Clark.

Sir R, Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.


H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Colonel Sharman-Crawford.

-J. Hanna.

M. E, Knight.

Marquis J. S. 1'.

McCance.

Sib C. McCullagh.

II.

G. MacGeagh.

of Londonderry.

■ ,, General Assembly W. M. Murphy.

H. M. Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

R. H. Wallace.

A. Jameson-.

W. Kavanagh.

J. K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

J. McCarron.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McGaRRY.

J. McHugh.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.


J. O'Down, C. P. O'Neill.

J. O'Neill.

P. of Mayo.

t Lord Oran'more and Browne Dr. O'Sullivan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin-.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattrry.

G. F. Stewart.

T. Toal.

H. T. WniTLEY.

of Raphoe.

Windle.

DIVISION No.

19—19th MARCH, L918, (Set p. 115, supra).

AGAINST (18).

W. Be Archbishop .i ■ of Cashel.

■ isroY.

3 J. Coen.

d. condren.

Lord Mayor of Cork.

P. Dempsey.

Earl of .

].

Devlin.

Dooly.


J. I >esart.

Dor (A Bishop of Down and Connor.

of Dublin.

Archbishop Lord M iyoh of Dublin.

T Di ggan.

T. Fallón.

.1.

Fitzgibbon.

fian.

of Mayo.

A. Jameson, W. ELvvanagh.

J. K. Kept.

T. Lundon.

■ i .

mc( ¡arron.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McGaery.

J. Mi Hugh.

C. McKay A. R. MacMuli.en- Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

P. J. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore and Browne Dr. O'Sullivan.

!'

O'H.

Peters J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.


Sir S. B. Quin.

.

liVPHOE.

Ear] of < Iranard.

MISBIXS.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Hali T. -I 1!

IRBI80N igan.

D. Reilly M. Slattery.

G, F. Stewart, T. Toal.

H. T. Whitley.

Windle.

Sir B.

-I. J. Clark.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor of Belfast.

Sir G. Clark.

< Jolonel Colonel Sharman-Crawford.

J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis .1.

S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh, 11 G. VIacGeagh.

Moi>!-;i:atoh General W. for.

Murphy.


!I.

M. Pollock.

( i ONi ' H.H.

Wallace.

Sir of Londonderry.

W Whitla.

Assembly.

DIVISION No.

20—19th MARCH, 1U1Ö.

(Set p. 115, supra).

FOR (54).

AGAINST (17).

.

of Cork.

Dublin of Dublin.

of Desart.

Duke of Abercorn.

M. K. Barry.

J. Borger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

J. J. Clancy.

-T. J.

Corn.

i).

condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Devlin.

J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Archbishop of Lord Mayor T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.

3.


Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

Sir Earl William Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

T. J. Ha of Granard.

Gubbins.

Willi \m Goulding.

of Desart.

E. H. Andrews.

M. K. Barry.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

J. J. Clancy.

J. J.

C'oen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

J. Devlin.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Archbishop T. Dttggan.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

Sir W. Goulding.

of Granard.

Earl William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

of Cork.


of Dublin J. J. Clark.

Sharman-Crawford.

of Belfast.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Colonel J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

MoDEKvroH General H. M. Pollock.

Colonel R. H. Wallace.

Sir W. Whitla.

of Londonderry.

Assembly Midleton.

of Mayo.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

■ I. K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

J. McCarron.

Loud MacDonnell.

J. McGarry.

J. MoHugh.


C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullbn.

Earl Viscount J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

J. O'Neill.

P. Lo Dr. J.

B. Powell.

'!'.

Power Sir S. B. Quin.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

I!.

T. Whitley.

»Oka O'Sulliyan.

.

DIVISION No.

-21—20th MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

24 and 110, supra).

AGAINST 1(5.

-I.

.1.

Clark.

Sharman-Crawford.

( !.

( 'laue.

Duke ok Abercorn'.

Sir H. X. Anderson.

EL B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barbie.


I ,obd Mayor of Belfast.

Sir I 'olonel Colonel M. E. Knight.

Marquis •i.

s. F, McCance.

SlR C. MrOULLAGH.

H. G. MacGeagh.

Moderator Colonel Sir W Whitla.

li.

H. Wallace.

of Londonderry.

G ion eral Assembly.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

J. K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

J. McCarron. '

Lord MacDonnell.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

of Mayo Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

P. J. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore Db.

O'Sulliyan.

P. OH.

J.

B. Powell.


T. Power.

Provost Sir S. B. Qutn.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

H. T. Whitley.

of Trinity.

Peters.

and S. Windle.

151 DIVISION No.

22—2Dth MARCH, 1918.

(Set p. 111. supra).

AGAINST (51).

ok Armagh.

of Cashel.

< Clancy.

E. 14.

Andrews.

Archbishop M. K. Barry.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archbishop J..J. J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop Archbishop Lord Mayor T. Duggan.

J. Fitzgibbon.
J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

Sir W. Goulding.

Earl William of Desart.

of Gt.an of Down led.

Gubbins, Cork.

and Cc of Dublin.

of Dublin.

Midleton.

Capiain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

A Jameson.

\Y.

Kavanagh.

J, iv Kett.

T. Lundon.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McGarry.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl of Mayo.

Viscount \V.

M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

P. J. O'Neill.

.

Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sullivan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Provost Sir S. B. Quin.

BrsHOP of Raphoe.

I).


Reilly.

M. Slattery.

and Browne of Trinity College DIVISION No.

23—20th MARCH, 1918.

(Sec p. 111. supra).

AGAINST (51).

J. of Cork.

of Cashei.

of Armagh.

Es.

H. Andrews.

Archbishop M. K. Barry.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

Coen.

J. D. Condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop of Down and Connor, Archbishop Lord Mayoi T. Duggan.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.


Sir W. Goulding Earl of Granari Gubbins William of Dublin.

Dm of Desart.

of Mayo.

Captain Gwynn.

T Halligan.

A Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

J K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McOarry.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

\V.

M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C P. O'Neill.

J. O'Neill.

P. Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sullivan.

P O'H.

J.

1'.. Powell.

'I'.

Power.

Provost sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop of Kaphoe.

I).

Reilly.

M. Slattery.

iVlNDLE.

of Trinity Peters.


and Browne.

College.

DIVISION No.

24—20th MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

2ü and 111, supra).

FOR (48).

AGAINST (19).

of Cashel.

of Cobk.

of Dublin i ÍLANCY.

of Desart.

J. Bolo er.

W.

Broderi.'k.

J. Butler.

Arohrishor -I.

-i. J. J. COEN.

1).

CoNDREN.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Archbishop T. Duggan.

C !■"-1 ; OÎ J.

-I. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

Sir W. Goulding.

Fare of Granard.

William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.


A. Jameson.

Fnv.oiBi'.oN.

.Midleton.

of Mayo.

W. Kavanagh.

J. K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

Lord MacDonnell.

-I McGarry.

J. McHugh.

A. Ii.

MacMullen.

Earl Viscount W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

I'.

I. O'Xeill.

Lord Oranm Dr. O'Sulltvan.

P. OH.

Peters.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Provost Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop I).

Reilli of Raphoe.

.

of Trinity .Aber* obn.

Duke of Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.


i J. J. Clark.

of Belfast.

Sharman-Crawford Colonel M. E. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

.1.

S. K. McCance.

J. McCarron.

Sib C McCullagh.

H. G. .MacGeagh.

C. McKay.

Mouerator Colonel Sik Whitla.

W. H. T. Whitley.

General R. H. Wallace.

Assembly.

> Bko\y> Colleoi DIVISION No.

25—21 st MARCH, 1918.

(Set pp.

2i> and 111, supra)'.

AGAINST [22).

qf E. H. Andbews.

M. K. Barry.

J. BOLGEB.

W. Bbodeeick.

Abc hbishop J. J. COEN.

D. CONDREN.


Lord M i P. Dempsey.

J. Dooly.

Captaln Doran.

Bishof of Down Loro of T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.

.1.

Flanagan.

II.

Garahan.

William Gubbins Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

A. Jameson.

W. Kayanaoh.

.Mayor ( !.

i of Mayo.

J. K. K ett.

T. Lundon.

.1.

McCarron J. McDonnell.

Lobd MacDonnell.

■J.

McGarby.

•I.

McHugh.

G McKay.

A. I-:.

MacMullen.

Eael Viscount Midleton \\.

M. Murphy.

.

].

O'Dowd.

Dr. O'Scllivan.

P. OH.

Peters.

,i.


B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S B. Quin.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. I\ Stewart.

T. Toal.

Raphoe.

of Windle.

ok Armagh.

of Belfast.

of Duke Sir R. X. Anderson.

Abchbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barril.

Loud Mayor Sik G. Colonel Colonel Archbishop • I. Hanna.

M. E. Km.,„r.

I : -I. J.

(lark.

s h keman-Crawford.

of Dublin.

'■, Londonderby;.

llaoh.

,1.

S. K. Mil INCE, Sir C McCi H G. Mai i Moderator General Assembly.
Lord Oranmore H. M. Pollock.

Provost I 'olos Sir W. Whitla.

of Trinity ii.

R. H Wallai and Browne.

< !ou BGÉ, I' DIVISION Ko.

20—21st MARCH, 1018.

(Sec pp.

26<mc¡ 112, supra).

FOU (27).

AGAINST (20).

E. H. Andrews.

J. Bolger.

J. J. Cokn.

Lord Mayor of Cork.

of Desart.

Earl J. Dooly.

T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

Sir W. Goulding.

of Granard.

Earl William Gubbins.

J. Hanna.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

Lord MacDonnell.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. O'Neill.

P. Lo >Ou.\ J.


B. Powell.

Provost Sir S. B. Qüin.

Bishop D. "Reilly.

G. F. Stewart.

Sut B. Windle.

of Raphoe.

of Mayo.

of Trinity Co M. K. Barky.

W. Broderick.

J. J. Clancy.

]).

Condren.

Captain Doran.

Bishop of Down and Connor.

J. I'lTZGIBBON.

H. Garahan.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

T. Lundon.

•J.

MoOarrok.

J. McGarry.

J. McHuoh.

J. McKay.

.1.

MtlliPHY.

Dr. O'Sullivan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

M. Slattery.

T. Toal DIVISION No.

27—21st MABCH, 1918.

[See if.


27 and 112, supra).

AGAINST (20).

of Cashei Ma E. H. Andrews, .11, K. Harry.

.1.

Bolger.

\v Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archbishop .1.

.1.

I'lASTV.

.1.

.1.

Cisln.

1).

Co I., I P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain T. Dug,can.

T. Falls,N.

.1.

Fitzgibbon.

Sib YV.

Goulding.

of Granard.

Earl Ci William Captain Gwynn T. Halligan.

of Desart.

Doran.

.SS.

A. Ja W. Kavanagh T. Lundon.

•I.

McCabbon.

Lord MacDonnell.

c. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl of Mayo.


Viscount, Midleton.

J. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

,1.

O'Neill P. Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sullivan.

J.

B. Powell T. Power.

Provost Sir Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

of Raphoe.

S. B. Quin.

Windle.

and Bbowni of Trinity College.

of Belfast.

J. J. Clark.

Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Colonel Sharman-Crawford, II.

Garahan.

J, Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis .1.


S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

Moderator II.

M. Pollock.

T. Toal.

I sslisnei.

Sir W. Whitla of Londonderry.

H. Walla,-,-.

I!.

General Assembi.-i ' '1 DIVISION No.

28—21st MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

27 and 112, supra).

AGAINST (22).

of Cork.

of Cashel.

of Desart.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.


Bishop of Down and Connor.

T. Fallón.

J. FlTZGIBBON.

J. F H. Gi Sir W. Goulding.

of Granard.

Earl William Guebins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

Sir B. of Mayo.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

J. K. Kett.

J. McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

P. J. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sullivan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Provost Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery".

G. F. Stewart.


Windle.

of Raphoe.

and Browne of Trinity College.

of Belfast.

of Abercorn.

J. J. Clark.

Sharman-Crawford.

Duke Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Colonel J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis T. Lundon.

J. S. F. McCance.

J. McCarron.

Sir ('.

McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

C. McKay.

Moderator General Assembly.

J. Murphy.

H. M. Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

of Londonderry.

R. H. Wallace.


DIVISION No.

29—21st MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

27 and 112, supra).

FOR (42).

or Mayo.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

-J. K. Kett.

J. McDonnell.

Lord MacDonneü.

A. IÎ.

-MacMullen.

Earl Viscount Midleton W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

Lord Oranmore and Dr. O'Sullivan.

P. O'H.

J.

B. T. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin.

Bii D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

Sir B. Windle.

Powell.

Peters.

Ra Are -I. Clark.

of Belfast.

of Armagh.

Du Sir 1Ï.

N. Anderson.


Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. lÎARRiE.

Lord Maíoh Sut G.'Clark.

Colonel J.

Colonel Sharman-Crawford.

.

).

Hanna, M. E. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

T. Lundon.

J. S. F. McCance.

J. McCarron.

Sir C McCullagh.

H. G. Mai C. McKay.

Moderator General Assemrly.

J. Murphy.

H. M. Pollock.

Provost Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

of Trinity R. H. Wallace.

College i of (,'ashel.

of Cork.

il.

Andrews.

E. J. Bulger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.


Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor 3.

Dooly.

Captain Doran.

T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibron.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

Sir W. Goulding.

of Granard.

Earl William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. ; an.

Hai DIVISION No.

30—21st MARCH, 1918.

(See p. 112. supra).

FOR (22).

of Belfast.

Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. X. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barril.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel J. J. Clark.


Colonel Sharman-Crawford, J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis T. Lundon.

J.

S..F. McCance.

J. McCarron.

Sir C. McCullaoh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

C. McKay.

Moderator General Assbmbli J. Murphy.

H. M. Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

of Londonderry.

R. H. Wallace.

of C.j of C B RODERICK.

E. H. Andrews.

J. Bolger.

W. J. Butler.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Gohn.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.


J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

Sir W. Goulding of Desart.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

J. Kett.

J. McDonnell.

Lord MacDonn J. McHugh.

A. R. MacMul Mai Ea Viscount Midleton.

W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sulliyan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

Sir B. Windle.

of Raphoe.

and DIVISION No.

31—21st MARCH, Ï9Ï8.

(Sec pp.

27 and 112, supra).

ACAINST (22).


Midleton.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

J. K. Kett.

J. McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McHugh.

A. R. M\cMullen of Mayo.

Earl Viscount W. M. Murphy".

J. O'Dowd.

Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sulliyan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop ok R.aphoe.

D. Reilly/.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewaet.

Sir B. Windle.

and Brow]> .1.

Clark, .Mayor of Belfast.

Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrono.

H. T. Barrie.


Lord Sir G. Clark.

J.

Colonel Sha km an -( 'raw ford.

Colonel J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis T. Lundon.

J. J.

Sir C McCullAGH.

H. G. MacGeagh.

C McKay.

Moderator General Assembly •I.

Murphy.

H. M. Pollock.

Colonel R. Sir W. Whitla.

S. IÍsVCarron.

of Londonderry.

II.

Walla, p. Mi ■ e. V of Cashel.

of Cork.

of Desart E. H. Andrews.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archrishop •1.

J.

Clan.

y. J. J. COEN.

D. Com,KEN.

Lord Mayor Earl -I. DooI.Y.


Captain T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

Sir Vf.

Goulding.

Earl of Granard.

William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

t. ii illigan.

Doran.

156 DIVISION No.

32—21st MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

27 and 112, supra).

AGAINST (18).

of Cork.

of Desart.

of Cashel.

E. H. Andrews.

J Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor Earl J. J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.


Bishop of Down and Connor T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Fl.ANAGAN.

H. Garahan.

Sir W. Goulding.

Earl of Granard.

William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Hallioan.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

Sir B. of .Mayo.

J. K. Kett.

'I'.

Lundon.

J. McCarron.

J McDonnell.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McGarry.

J. McHugh.

C McKay.

A. I!.

MacMullen.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

Lord Oran m ire Dr. (.»Sullivan.

P. O'H.

Pi J.


B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop of Raphoe.

I).

Reilly.

M. Slattery".

G. F. Stewart.

T. Toal.

Windle.

\nd of Belfast.

J. J. Clark.

Siiarman-Crawfo] Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R, N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

( ¡olonel ( 'olonel J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis J. S. F. McCance.

( !.

McCullagh.

Sir H. G. MacGeagh.

Moderator H. M. Pollock, Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

General of Londonderry.


R H. Wallace.

Assen DIVISION No 33—22nd MARCH, 1918.

(Set p. 112, supra).

FOR (31).

of Armagh.

Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

B. H. Andrews.

Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Colonel Earl J. Hanna.

A. Jameson.

M. E. Knight.

of Desart.

of Belfast.

J. J. Clark.

Sharman-Crawford.

of Londonderry.

of Mayo.

J. S. F. McCance.

J. McCarron.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.


Earl Viscount Midleton.

Moderator General Assembly.

Lord Oranmore H. AL Pollock.

J.

B. Powell.

Provost Sir S. B. Quin.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

R. H. Wallace.

and Browne.

of Trinity College.

of C ishe and -i. Butler.

Archbishop J. J. Clancy.

-I.

-I. '

oen.

D. Condren.

[iORD Mayi P. Dempsey.

J. I »onl.Y.

( ÎAPTAIN I lofiAN.

Bishop of Down T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

■ I. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

William Gubbins Captain Gwynn.


T. Halligan.

W. Kavanagh.

T. K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

J. Mel 'onnell.

: rARRY.

J. McHUGH.

W. M Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C V. 0'Neill.

P. J. O'Neill.

P. O'H.

Peters.

T. Power.

Bishop of Raphoe.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

Sir B. Windle.

157 DIVISION No 34—22nd MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

28 and 112, supra).

FOB (38).

AGAINST (30).

E. H. Andrews.

J. BOIsGER.

or Desart.

J. Butler.

J. J. Clancy.

J. J.

Goes.

d. condren.

Lord Mayor'of Cork.

P. iMSMs'SEY.


Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

,7.

Fitzgibbon.

.1.

Flanagâk.

Earl W'i of Granard.

Gv ^■^^^^^^^^^^ T. Halligan.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

J. McCarron.

J. McDonnell.

Lord MaoDonnell.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

of Mayo.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore .7.

B. Powell.

T. Poker.

Sir 8.

B. Quin.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

Sir B. Windle.

and Browne of Armagh.

Duke of Abercorn.

Sib 11.


N. .Anderson.

Archbishop II.

B. Armstrong.

M. Ï. Barbie.

Lord Mayor of Belfast.

of Cashel.

Archbishop Sir g. Clark.

Colonel Cssl.isN J. J. Clark.

, SlIS n-Cra r Down and Conno H. Garahan.

J. Hanna.

J. K. Kett.

M. Ii.

Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

T. Lundon.

J. s. I-'.

McCance.

Sir G. McCullagh.

J. McGarry.

II.

<;.

MacGeagh.

J. McHugh.

Mudkratur \V.

M. MuRPnY.

.1.

O'Neill.

P. P. O'H.

Peters.

H, M. Pollock.

BISHOP of Raphoe.


('..IS R. H. Wa Genkrai.

As.s:;sh W. Wh DIVISION Nc _ {Set 3.-1—22x1, MARCH, 1018.

FOB (32).

Cha _ of Cashel.

.Mayor of Cork.

.1.

Bol ■ Br -I. Butler.

.-\rchbishop -I. J. COEN.

I).

G'sSNDKKX.

Lord I'.

Dempsey.

J. Dooly.

Bishop of Down and Connor.

T. Duugan.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

¡am Gubbins.

Wm Captain Gwynn.

I1.

Halligan.

.1.

K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

.1.

McCarron.

g. McKay .1.

Murphy.

W. AL Murphy.


J. O'Dowd .1.

O'Neill.

P. P. O'H.

Peters.

T. Power.

D. Reii.ly.

M. Slattery.

Sir B. Windle.

.-lOAINST (31).

Duke or Abercorn.

Sir]:.

N. Anderson.

Archbishop of Armagh.

H. B.

.Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

I,,i,d Mayor of Belfast.

Ssi: ,1.

Clark.

.

I.

-I. Clark.

Shabmas-Craw Sha i ford.

Colonel Kaki, of Desart.

Captain Doran.

Earl of Granard.

.1.

Hanna.

W. Kavanagh.

M I-'.

Knight.

Alsn,jns of Londonderry.

.1.

S. F. M. Gas.


Sir C MoCulLAGH.

ll.

Lord M ,,!

'onni II.

G. MacGeagh.

J. McHugh.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl of Mayo.

Viscous Moderator General Assembly.

II M. 1', si.LOCK.

.1 i; Powell.

Sir S. I!.

Quin.

Bishop ,,i-- Raphoe.

Oolovel R. H. Wallace.

Sir W. Whitla.

r Midleton.

DIVISION No.

36—22nd MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

28 and 113, supra).

[FOR (43).

AGAINST (17).

Dooly.

Doran.

of Cork.

of Desart.

of Cashel.

J. Butler.

Archbishop J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.


Loud Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Captain Bishop of Down and Connor.

T. Duggan.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

of Granard.

Earl Gubbins.

William Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

W. Kavanagh.

K. Kett.

J. T. Lundon.

J. McCarron.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McGarry.

0.

McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

of Mayo.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. MURPHY".

W. M. Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill.

Dr. O'Sullivan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power Sir S. B. Quin.


Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery\ G. F. Stewart.

Windle.

of Raphoe.

of Belfast.

!rawford of Londonderry.

Clark.

J. J. Shar.uan-í Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Colonel J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight, Marquis J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh, H. G. MacGeagh.

Moderator H. M. Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

General Asslmbl' R. H. Wallace.

DIVISION No.

37—22nd MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.


29 and 113, supra).

FOR (43).

AGAINST (17).

J. K. Kett.

T. Ll'N DON.

J. Mi Carrón.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McGarry.

0.

McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

of Mayo.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

I'.

J. O'Neill.

Dr, O'Sullivan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

J.

B. Powell, 'i'.

Power.

Sib S. B. Quin.

Bishop of Raphoe.

I».

Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

J. J. Clark.

Sib R. X. H. B. Armstrong.

H T Bvrrie.

Lord M iyor of Belfast.


Sir G. Clark.

Colonel < !0LON sEL SlIARMA J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis J. S. F. M Sir C. McCullagh.

il.

0.

MacGeagh.

Moderator M. M, Pollock.

Colonel Su; w. Whitla.

II.

W ■.

R. of Londonderry.

General Así ou Cashel.

of Cork.

of Desart.

J. Bolge W. Br J. Butler.

Aim hbishop J. J Coen.

d. condren.

Lord May'or P. Dempsey.

Earl J. DOOLY.

Captain Bishop T. Duggan.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Carmmn.

Earl William Captain Gwynn.

Doran.


of Granard.

Gubbins.

of Down- and C of Cashel.

of Cork.

of Desart.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archbishop J. J. COEN.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

T. Duggan.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

of Granard.

Earl William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

W. Kavanagh.

,7.

K. Kett.

- 159 DIVISION No.

38—22nd MARCH, 1918.

(See np.

29 and 113, supra).

FOR (42).

AGAINST (18).

.Midleton.


of Mayo.

T. Lundon.

.

).

Mi Carrón.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McGarry.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl Viscount J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill, Dr. O'Sulliyan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sib S. B. Quin.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

Sir B. Windle. '

of Raphoe.

of Belfast.

J. J. Clark.

Sharman-Crawford, Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lobs .Mayor Sir G. Clark.


Colonel Colonel J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry, J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

.Moderator General Assembly.

H. M. Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

R. H. Wallace.

DIVISION No.

39—22nd MARCH, 1918.

(See pp.

29 and 113, supra).

AGAINST (18).

,1.

K. Kett.

T. Lundon.

J. McCarron.

Lord MacDonnell.

J. McGarry.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

Earl Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

W. M. Murphy.

of Mayo.

of Cashel.


of Cork.

of Desart.

.

!.

Bolger W. Broderick.

J. BUTLBB.

Archrishop J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop T. Duggan.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

of Granard.

Earl William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

W. Kavanagh.

of Down and Connor.

P. J. O'Neill.

Dr. O'Sullivan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

.7.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.


of Raphoe.

Sir B. Windle.

.

).

Clare.

of Belfast.

Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Babbie.

Lord Mayor Sir G. Clark.

Colonel J.

Colonel Sharman-Crawford.

J. Hanna.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

Moderator H. M. Pollock.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

of Londonderry.

R. H. Wallace.

General Asskmpl DIVISION No.

10—22nd MABOH, 1918.

(See p. Ill's, supra).

FOR (27).


AGAINST (35).

\Y.

Ii ICÜDEIC1CK ,J.

.1.

Clancy.

J. J. COEN.

D. CONDBEN.

LoitD MaYOB O P. Dempsey.

J. McCarron.

J. McGaery.

C. McKay.

J. Murphy.

Db.

O'Sullivan P. O'H.

T. Power.

1).

1ÎHII.Ï.

Peters J. J. Clark.

Shabman-Craweobd.

.Mayor ok Belfast.

of Armagh.

of Cashel.

Duke us Abercoen.

Bin It.

N. ASDEBSON.

Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Babbie.

Lsihd J. BOLGEli.

-f. BUTLEB.

Abchbishop Sir Ci.

Cl,IRK.

Colonel Colonel Earl Earl .1.

Banna.


A. Jameson.

\V.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis J. S. F. McCance.

Rtr C. MaoCullagh.

T.ssis,!

MacDonnell.

II G. MacGeagh.

,\.

Pi.

MacMullen.

Evrl or of DesabT.

of Granard.

1\ CYANAGH.

.Mayo.

of Londonderry.

Ass P, Mo H. M. J.

B. Powell.

Provost Sir S. B. Quin.

Bishop 0.

F. Stewart Colc of P \piioe.

op Trinity College DIVISION No.

41—22nd MABCH, 1018.

(See p, L16, FOR (27).

AGAINST (35).

of Cashel.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.


Archbishop J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor of Cork.

P. Dempsey.

J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Bishop of Down and C( T. Duggan.

J. Eitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

II.

Garahan.

William T. Halligan.

J. K. Kett.

T. London.

J. McCarron.

J. McGarry.

C. McKay.

J. Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill.

P. O'H.

Peters.

T. Power.

Gubbins.

of Armagh.

J. J. Clark.

Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor of Belfast.

J. Bolger.


J. J. Clancy.

Colonel Sir G. Clark.

Sharman-Crawf* Colonel of Dublin.

Archbishop Sir William Goulding.

Earl of Granard.

Captain Gwynn.

.1, Hanna.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis J. S. F. McCance.

Si ii (.'.

McCullagh.

Lord MacDonnell.

11.

G M ioGeàgh.

A. R. MacMullen.

Viscount Midleton.

Moderator H. M. Pollock.

J. R. Powell.

Provost Sir S. B. Quin.

G. F. Stewart.

Colonel R. H. Wallace, Sir W. Whitla.

RirB.

Windle.
RirB.

Windle.

of Londonderri of Trinity G ex eral Asse Coli 162 DIVISION No.

42—4th APRIL, 1918.

CONSIDERATION 0¥ REPORT.

Paragraph 2G (as drafted).

Amendment proposed (Mr. W. M. Murphy): — To omit all the wnrdn after the word " deficit ' .

hue 9 Clause 20 to the end of th¿ Clause.

Amendment rejected by 47 votes to 25.

FOR (25).

AGAINST (47).

J. J. Clark.

Sharman-Ckawfoi of Armagh.

Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor of Belfast.


of Cashel.

Archbishop Sir George Clark.

Colonel Colonel J. Hanna.

M, E. Knight.

Marquis J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

11.

Gbattan MacGeagh.

Moderator Wm.

M. Murphy.

1\ O'H.

H. M. Pollock.

Provost Bii T. Toal.

Colonel Sut W. Whitla.

of Trinity 1Í.

II.

W\ Peters.

K\ of Londonderry.

Collei General Assem E. H. Andrews.

M. K. Barry.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J, BUTLBB.

J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

D. Condren.

Lord Mayor of C( P. Dempsey.


Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

of Desart.

•Du J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

SibW.

Gouldi Gubbins.

William Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

Alderman McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

J. McGarry.

0.

McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

Viscount Midleton, J. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sulliyan.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. Quin.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

II.

T. Whitley.


and Br N.B.—Pnrnp;r.i|ili subsequently mnended without a dû 168 DIVISION No.

13—1th APRIL, 1(118. consideration of report.

Paragraph 26 (a« amended).

Motion proposed (Chairman):— That nciiiiicTcisçsli -20 eis amended tdopted ed Inj 47 notes lo 25 FOR (-17).

AGAINST (25).

c of Desart.

Ii.

H. Andrew M. K. Barry.

J. Bolger.

\V.

Broderick J. Butler.

J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

Ii.

Condben.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

Earl ■1.

Dooly.

Captain Doran.


Archbishop T. DIG,.AN.

Earl of Dunraven.

T. Fallón.

H. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

II.

Gabahan.

Sir W. Gouldino.

cCRNEY.

sM.

Co Granard.

Cork.

of Dublii T. Halligan.

A. J W. Kavanagh.

Alderman McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

J.

.McDonnell.

J. McGarry.

C. McKay.

A. K. MaoMullen.

Viscount Midleton, -l. Murphy.

.1.

O'Dowd.

s Or 1..S I iic.

O'Sullivan.

.7.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. Quin.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

(1.

F. Stewart.

Fi .

T. Whitley.

iic 11.


Windle.

.Armstrong.

of Armagh.

Duke oh- Abebcobn.

Sib.

11.

N. Anderson.

Archbishop H. B.

11.

T. Babbie.

Lord Mayor of Belfas' a R0QBISHOP of Cashel.

Sir G. Clark.

J.

Colonel J. Clark.

Colonel Shakmas-Crawi J. Hanna.

Marquis J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

JÍ.

Gr Moderator General Ai Wm.

M Murphy.

P O'H.

Teteus.

H. M. Pollock.

Provost of Trinity Bishop of Raphoe.

T. Toal.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.


of Londondkbr P. H. Walla Ma,-(I, C Ill] DIVISION No.

14—4th APRIL, 1918.

CONSIDERATION OE REPORT.

Paragraph 29.
Amendment proposed (Mr. W. M. Murphy):— To omit Clause 29 and to substitute the following Clause:— " It became apparent that ou (ho l'n ancia] i^sue there were throe clearly defined bodies ol opinion in the Convention, and in these circumstances the Chairman, acting on his own responsi- bility, considered it to he his duty to communicate personally with the Prime Minister and to represent tu him that the situation in tlie Convention had leached a very critical stage and that it Was in danger ut coming to a definite break.
■'Arising out of bis interview with the Prime .Minister, which book piare on Saturday, the 19th January, the Chairman received the following letter on tlie 22nd January tu be used at his discretion."

Amendment reject'-d by 4'J votes to 11.

FOR (11).

AGAINST (42).

of Cashel.

E. H. Andrews.

Archbishop Bishop or Down and Connor.

II.

Garahan.

J. Hanna.

-i. MoGabby.

J. McHugh.

W. M. Murphy.

Peters.

P. O'H.

Bishop of R.aphoe.

T. Toal.

of Desart.

M. K. Barry.

W. Brodekkjk.

,1.

Butler.


J. J. Clancy.

J. J. COEN.

1'.

Condeen.

P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Archbishop T. Duggan.

Eabl of Dunbaven.

T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.

J. Flanagan.

Sir Willlvm M. Governey.

Earl W. Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T, Halligan.

of Granard Goulding.

of Dublin.

A, Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

Alderman McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

-1.

Ml'J »onnell.

H. G. MacGeagh.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.


Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sullivan.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Provost Sir S. Quin.

I).

Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. P. Stewart.

G. T. Whitley.

Sir B. Windle.

of Trinity and Browne.

College.

KV, DIVISION N'o.

45—4txi Al'RIL, 1918.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT.

Paragraph 29.


Amendment proponed (Mr. W. M. Morphx): — Immediately after the Primo Minister's letter dated 21st January, page Li, insert the following words: — " Acting on hio discretion, the Chairman communicated this letter to tin Convention on tlie ii 1 lli January, when a division was imminent on the Bishop of Kaphoe's Amendment (claiming control of Customs for the Irish Parliament), to Lord Midleton's Motion, which had been under discussion for smue time.
'1 Amendment rejected by -11 votes lo 10.

FOR (10).

of Cashel.

Archbishop Bishop <>f Down and Connor.

H. Garahan.

J. Hanna.

I McGarry.

•1, McHuoh.

W. M. Muephy.

P. O'H.

Peters.

Bishop of Raphoe.

T. Toal.

of Desar K. II.

Andrews M ft. IÏARRY.

W. Broderick.

.1 Butler.

J. J. Clancy.

J. J. Coen.

I > < 'onijren.

P. Dempsey.

Karl J. Dooly.

Captain Doras Archbishop of T. Duggan.

Ra Pi T, Fallón.

J.

Sir William M. GoVERNEY.

Earl of Granard.

William Gubbins.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.


I-'itzi;ibbon.

Col A. Jameson.

\V.

Kavanagh.

T. Lundon.

Alderman McOarroï M. McDonogh.

.1 McDonnell.

C. McKay.

A. I!.

MacMullen.

Viscount Midleton.

d. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

Lord Oranmore Dr. OSullivan.

.1.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

vNt, Y< iST < ?Tr Sir S. B. Quin.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

If.

T. Whitley, Sir B. Windle.

lihno.

aph U..I subsequently amended and adopted without a division.

DIVISION Xu.
DIVISION Xu.

Ill— -Jth sVl'lilL, 1918. consideration of report.

graph 32 miment ,„„,„,, ,/ (Ali; W. M. Murphy): it at end oi l'i me Minister's letter dated ated ,-tis- " Tlis- Pi isl „Í tlie in the Mi Jl.lh Mu foivgoing its-,1 the Convention to Umpire, tl The letter had tlie further eft'eet that Lord Midleton, wh power the supported Lord MaoDonnell's Motion to withhold Police Customs and Excise for an indefinite period, letter he practie.illv 1'arliiiiuelil Customs except deth.
Irish on l„ its letter in Ins for whereas for Ireland within to Mr. situation, the mue a Constitution sails Constitution which he would adopt, was willing 1" give Police and every fiscal and position eation, withdrew truin the War, and both ind Post Office during that " Again the Committee on Defence had reported with that tin- euntiol m, ntsii.s Report ' that conclusion should, -if tin- Irish Police dated March 5th, it mav, shoulsl thev be essential lie retained.'
to tl to the Pri that during perhaps, purposes, for Administrative in- entrusted referred " use dissentient on 3 Irish Government, as- Minister's letter tils- YVsir Imperial tlie 26th but ansí sume I'elauarv in a supplé- the to of Police l'outrol •I.

BOLGBE.

AliCHBISHOr OF Casbbl.

Loan Mayor of Cork.

Bishop su-- Down and Connor.

T. Duggan.

J. Flanagan.

H. Garahan.

W. Gubbins.

-I Hanna.

J. McGarry.

J. McHiuH.

W. M. Murphy.

P. .1.

O'Neill.

P. O'H.

Peters.


1ÎA T. Toa Amendment rejected by II votei to Its.

AGAINST (II).

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

T. Lundon.

Alderman- MuGarru.x.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

C. McKay.

It.

MacMullen.

A. Viscount Midleton.

• I. MmtPHï.

J. O'Dowd.

Toil!)

OliANMOIIi: A\ls |', 1 Dr. O'Sulliyan.

•T.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin.

I» Reilly.

M Slattery.

G. I'.

Stewart.

H. T. Whitley.

B. WINDLE.

of Armagh.

liROUERlCK.

E. H. Andrews.


.Archbishop M. K. Barry.

W. .1.

Butler.

J J. Clancy.

■I.

J. COEN.

d. condben.

Karl of Desart.

J. DOOLY.

Captain Doban.

■ Du ■ Du Goui.r T. Fallón.

J Fitzgibbon.

Sir William M. GoVERNEY.

Karl op Granard.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

Paragraph subsequently adopted without a di- 167 DIVISION No.

47—Jtii APRIL, 1918.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT.

Paragraph 36.


Amendment proposed (Mr. W. M. Murphy): — To omit the first line and the three firs* words in the second line of Clause 36.

Amendment rejected by 37 votes to 32 FOR (32).

AGAINST (37).

ok Cashel.

of Belfast.

and Connor.

of Armagh.

of Abercorn.

I'.

N. Anderson.

.1.

J. Clark.

Sh arman Craw for d. Duke Sir Archbishop H. B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor J. Bolo er.

Archbishop Sir G. Clark.

Colonel ( 'olonel BrsHOP of Down T. DUOGAN.

J. Flanagan.
J. Flanagan.

If.

Garahan.

VV.

Gurhins.

M. E. K NIC HT.

M suons of Londonderry.

J. S. K. McCance.

.Sir C. McCullagh.

.1, McGarry.

H. Grattan MacGeagh.

J. McHugh.

Moderator General Assemble W. M. Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill.

P. O'H.

Peters.

H. M. Pollock.

Bishop T. Toal.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

R. H. Wallace.

of Raphoe.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

J. ,l. Clancy.

Goulding.

of Granard.

Gwynn.

Doran.

of Dunravbn.

P. Dempsey.

Earl of Desart.

J. Dooly.

Captain Karl T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.


Sir William m. governey.

Earl Captain T. Halligan.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

Alderman McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

0.

McKay.

A. It,.

MCMULLEN.

Viscount Midleton.

d. MiRI'HY.

C. P. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmorii Dr. O'Sullivan.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Sir S. B. Quin.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

H. T. Whitley.

Sir B. Windle.

and Browne.

Paragraph subsequently amended and adopted without a div 168 DIVISION No.
48—5th APBTL, 1918. consideration of report of housing committee.

i p. 23, supra.)

Amendment proposed (Mr. McCarron): — In paragraph 13 to omit the words " or to private , ubject to the Approval of the local authorities, as to rents and other conditions.

Amendment rejected by 11 votes to 34.

AGAINST (41).

of Coi Doran.

of ('ash M. K. Barry.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

Archbishop d. condren.

Lord Mayor P. Dempsey.

J. Devlin, Captain Bishop of Down as T. Duggan.

T. Fallón.

H. Garahan.

M. Governey.


J. Hanna.

J. K Kett.

T. Lundon.

Alderman McCarro J. McGarry.

J. McHugh.

C. McKay, .1, Murphy- .1.

O'Dowd.

P. J. O'Neill.

Dr. O'Sullivan.

P. O'H.

Peters.

T.

Power.'

Bishop of Raphoe.

I).

Reilly.

M. Slattery.

T. Toal.

Ii.

Wauoii.

H. T. Whitley Sir Ii.

Windle.

i'i:a' of Armagi of Belfa Sharman J. J. Clark.

of Desart.

of Dim; win.

Duke of Abercorn.

It.

X. Anderson.

Sir E. H. Andrews, Archbishop H. lî.

Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.


Lord Mayoh J. Bolger.

J. J. Clancy.

Sir G. Clark.

Colonel J. J. Coen.

Colonel Earl J. Dooly.

Karl J. FlTZGIBHON.

J. Flanagan.

Sir W. Goulding.

Earl of Granard.

A. Jameson.

\V.

Kavanagh.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis .J.

S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

M. McDonogh.

J, McDonnell.

H. G. MacGeagh.

A. II.

MacMullen.

Viscount Midleton.

Moderator General \\.

M. Murphy.

C. P. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore H. M. Pollock.

J, H. Powell.

Sir S. G. F. Stewart.


Colonel Sib W. Whitla.

Ii.

Quin.

Wallace.

ok Londonds .

and Beport suhsei|in'utlv amended and adopted unanimously.

109 DIVISION No.

40- APRIL, 1918.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT.

Paragraph !l.

as submitted by the Chairman, viz.

:— Tbe unanimously describe i m l i caled append the position in what foregoing is an accurate of the proceedings of the Convention and, as such, we our signatures they took up it.
Those of us who consider the Convention have, in notes that it does not adequately this Report, to subjoined narrative to in respect it fails to do so nt proposed (Ar Armagh): To omit all the words after " The " and to insert:—' authorised by formal resolution submit it to His Majesty's Government."

to sign the foregoing Report on behalf of the Convention and to Amendment adopted by 45 votes to 36.

AGAINST (36).

of Cashel.

of Dublin.

of Belfast.

J. J. Clark.

of Cork.

Sharman-Crawford.


Duke of Abercorn.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

I!.

B. Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor AitciiiiTSHop Sir G. Clark.

Colonel Lord Mayor Colonel .1.

Devlin.

Bishop of Down and Connor.

Lord Mayor T. Duggan.

.1.

Flanagan.

ÍL Garahan.

W. Gubbins.

J. Hanna.

J. K. Kett.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

T. Lundon.

J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

- J. McGarry.

H. G. MacGeagh.

J. McHugh.

Moderator General Assembly.

W. M. Murphy.

P. J. O'Neill.


P. O'H.

Peters.

H. M. Pollock.

Bishop T. Toal.

Colonel Wallace.

Sir W. Whitla.

of Raphoe.

of Armagh.

E. H. Andrews.

Archbishop M. K. Barry.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderiok, -I. Butler.

J. J. Clancy.

J. COEN.

!>.

( Yindren.

P, Dempsey.

Earl .1.

Dooly.

< Iaptain Doran.

of Desart.

iH' or Dublin.

Goulding.

E lrl of Dunraven.

T. Fallón.

.1.

FlTZUIBBON.

Sir William M. Governey.

of Granard.

Earl Captain Gwynn.

T. Hallk, \\.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.


Aldeem w >!

'< 'arron.

M. McDonogh.

.1.

McDonnell.

C. McKay.

A. R. MacMullen.

Midleton.

Viscount J. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

Lord Oranmore Dr. 0\Sullivan.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Provost Sir S. B. Quin.

D. Reilly.

Rt Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

R. Waugh.

H. T. Whitley.

Sir B. Windi e. of Trinity and Browne, College.

DIVISION No.

.

".O—r.Tii API!

IL.

1918.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT.


Paragraph -il, as amended: — Tlie CluuniKHi ¡uni S<- ■■■■> ■' v\ hnve hern ¡inthorised hy ion nal ivsohiiio to sign the foivgoii Report tin behalt ot the Convention and to submit it to His Mijesty's Cove Further Amendment proposed (Archbishop of Ae To omit all the words after " The Chairman ; ii] Si cretary " and to have the hone to submit th ■ foregoing Report of the I'roi'eoliiig.s ■ :' the Iris'n (''invention to His Majesty's Gown Amendment carried by 34 votes to 29.
AGAINST (29).

Cork.

of Dublin.

of .

(.

Clancy.

J. Coen.

Archbishop M. K. Barry.

J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler, J. J. I), c Lord Mayo J. Devlin.

.1.

Dooly.

( 'Al TAIN I >ORAN.

Lord Mayor T. Fallón.

J. FlTZGIBRON.

J. Flanagan, m. governey.

Earl of Granard.

Captain Gwynn.

T. EIalligan.

W. Kavanagh.

T. Lundon.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

W. M. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

c. P. O'Neill.

P. J. O'Neill.

Dr. O'Sullivan.

T. Power.

Provost D. Reilly.

M, Slattery.

Sir B. Windle.


of Trinity College.

of Desart.

of Belfast.

of Dublin.

Duke of Abercorn Sir R. N. Anderson.

E. II.

Andrews.

¡I.

B. Armstrong.

H. T Barrie.

Lord Mayor Su: G. Clark, Colonel J. J.

Clark.

; Colonel Sharman Crawford.

Earl Archbishop Sir W. Goulding.

J. Hanna.

A. Jameson.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis of Londonderry.

J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C. McCullagh.

H. G. MacGeagh.

A. R. MacMullen, Viscount Midleton.

Moderator Lord Oranmore H. M. Pollock.

J.


B. Powell.

Sir S. B. Quin.

G. F. Stewart.

Colonel Sip.

W. Whitla.

R. H. Wallace.

General Assembly.

and Browne.

171 DIVISION Nu.

51—5th APRIL, 1918.

CONSIDER VTION OI REPORT.

(Sjfl p 29, supra). "

The Chairman Proceedings of the and Secretary Irish ('(.invention have the honour to submit to His Majesty's Government."
tbe foregoing Report of tlie Further Amendment proposed (Archbishop of Dublin) :— To omit all the words after the word " honour " and insert " by direction of the Convention, to submit the foregoing Report of its Proceedings to His Majesty's Co\ eminent. "

Amendment carried and pttraijraph, as, amended, adopted by \2 otes lo '■'<.'>.

AGAINST (35).

I Go William of Desart .1.

Clan« y. E. H. Andrews.

M. K. Barry.

.f.

Butler.

J. J. J. COEN.

D. CONDREN.

P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

( 'attain Doran.


of Archbishop Lord Mayor of Eabx of Dunra T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon.

Sir m. governey.

Earl of Granard.

Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

A. Jameson.

W. Kavanagh.

Alderman M, McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

A. Viscount J. MURPHÏ J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.

.1.

O'Neill.

P, I,ni:n Dr. J.

B. Powell.

T. PÓWEB.

Provost Sir S. B. Quin.

D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

G. F. Stewart.

H. T. Whitley.

Sir B. Windle.

lï.

MacMullen.

Mc( 'aheon.

-Midleton.

.


, ÍKANMORE AND BROWNE.

t)'S!i.Li\*\N.

of Trinity College.

of Belfast.

of Abercorn.

lï.

N. Anderson.

Dike Sir H. B. Armstrong.

JI.

T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor J, Bolger.

W. Broderi.

Archbishop Sir George Clark.

Colonel Lord Mayor Co I.O N EL X] IA RM A N -( 'ii AW I ■< i H11.

-I. Devlin.

k. of < ¡ashel, .J.

J. Clack.

of < !ork, oi Down and I Ionnor, T. Duggan.

H. Garahan, W. Gubbins.

,1.

Hanna.

J. K. Kett.

M. E. Knight.

Marquis T. Lundon.


J. S. F. McCance.

of Londonderry.

1 ULLAGH.

General As.semrly.

■i.

Ab Garry.

H. G. MacGeagh.

.1.

McHugh.

Moderator W. M. Murphy.

P. OH.

Peters.

H. M. Pollock.

Bishop of Raphoe.

T. Toal.

Colonel Sir W. Whitla.

R. H. \\ : 172 DIVISION No.

02—5th APRIL, l'JIS.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT.

[See p. 29, supra).

Motion proposed (Chair " That the Report ' whole be adopted.'

Curried by -i-I FOR (44).

of Desart.

E. H. Andrews.

M. K. Barry.


J. Bolger.

W. Broderick.

J. Butler.

J. J. Clancy.

3.

J. Coen.

D. CONDREN.

P. Dempsey.

Earl J. Dooly.

Captain Doran.

Archbishop Loud Mayor T. Fallón.

J. Fitzgibbon, Sir W. Goulding.

M. Governey.

of Granard.

Earl Captain Gwynn.

T. Halligan.

A. Jameson.

of Dublin.

of Dublin.

W. Kavanagh.

Alderman McCarron.

M. McDonogh.

J. McDonnell.

C -McKay.

A R. MacMullen.

Viscount Midleton.

J. Murphy.

J. O'Dowd.

C. P. O'Neill.


Lord Oranmore Dr, O'Sullivan.

J.

B. Powell.

T. Power.

Provost and Brown of Trinity Colle< D. Reilly.

M. Slattery.

a. F. Stewart.

R. Waugh.

H. T. Whitley.

Sir B. Windle.

Sharman-Crawford.

of Belfast.

of Cashel.

Sir R. N. Anderson.

Li.

ii.

Armstrong.

H. T. Barrie.

Lord Mayor Archbishop Sir G. Clark.

Colonel J. J. Clark.

Lord Mayor of Cork.

Colonel Bishop of Down and Connor.

T. Duggan.

H. Garahan.

.J.

Hanna.

M. E. Knight.


Marquis J. S. F. McCance.

Sir C McCullagh.

J. McGarry.

H. G. MacGeagh.

.

!.

McHugh.

Moderator General Assembly.

W. M. Murphy.

P. O'H.

Peters.

H. M. Pollock.

Bishop of Raphoe.

T. Toal.

Colonel Wallace.

Sir W. Whitla.

of Londonderry.

173 APPENDIX XVIII.

THE FOLLOWING SHOWS THE NUMBER OF SESSIONS OF THE CONVENTION ATTENDED BY EACH MEMBER.

.

, t .

.. of Armagh of Belfast of Cashel of ... Blake ... Henry Clap.
;;: of Desart J. J. Clark í Mi; i: oí- Abercorn Sir U. N. Anderson E. II.

Andrews... Archbishop IL B.

Arm itrong H. T. Barrie M. K. Barry Lord Mayor Sü; J. Bolger W. Broderick J. Butler J. Byrne archbishop J. J. Clancy Sir George Col. J. J. Coen I).

CONDREN Loud Mayor Col, Shahman-Crawi Councillor Earl J. Devlin J. Dooly" Captain Doran Bishop Archbishop Lord Mayor T. Duggan j. dunlevy Earl of Dunraven T. Fallón J. Fitzgibbon J. Flanagan ii.
garahan Sir UTlllam M. Governey of Granard Karl William Gubbins Captain Gwynn T. Halligan J. Hanna T. A. Jameson W. Kavanagh J. K. Kett .J.
Harbison Down ... ... of ... ... Goulding ... ' I !i irk ord Dempsey' ash of Dublin of Dublin ... of Londonderry J. McCarrob ... ... ... M. Ë. Knight Marquis T. Lundon E. E. Lysaght J. S. F. McCance Alderman Sir C. McCullagh M. McDonogh Sir A. McDowell J. McDonnell Lord MacDonnell J. McGarry H. G. MacGeagh J. McHugh C McKay J. McMeekan A. R. MacMullen Earl of Mayo Viscount Midleton ... M. J. MlNCH Moderator J. Murphy General AsSEi W. M. Murphy ... .

i ... ... J. O'Dowd c. P. O'Neill.


P. J. O'Neill Lord Oranmore Dr. O'Sullivan P. O'H.

Peters H. M. Pollock J.

B. Powell T. Power Provost Sir S. B. Quin J. E. Redmond Bishop of Trinity ... ... of Raphoe Russell D. Reilly Bishop of George M. Slattery G. F. Stewart T. Toal Col. R. H. Walla« R. Waugh ... Sir W. Whitla H. T. Whitley Sir B. Windle ... ... ... Collec i 174 APPENDIX XIX.

MEMORANDUM BY LORD MACDONNELL IN CONNECTION WITH SECTION V. OF THE RESOLUTION STANDING IX HIS NAME ON THE AGENDA PAPER.
* ful- That the Convention, the letter of the Prime Minister to the Chairman, resolves procedure having considered to adopt- the following provi :— I. Th:- i'ur im- control of ,i m legislation, namely, and excise by an.

Irish Parlia- for further con- the war.

provided the question of such control shall bo mediate customs ment, be postponed sideration until after that considered of the United Kingdom within seven of peace.
years Lor in the Parliament the purpose of deciding of the United Kingdom the question of and the and decided by the Parliament the conclusion control after future ■ ■-.

a- number of Irish customs of Irish representatives proportioned to the population of Ireland shall be called to the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

* II.
* II.

That the administration of the Irish police and Irish postal service shall be reserved the war to the Imperial Govern- during as soon as possible provided ment, the after the of these two services shall administration the subject become Irish Parliament.
cessation of hostilities automatically that to iirst sections im- the for drafting is If and when the approval of the Convention of my Reso- obtained four lution on the Agenda Paper the materials will be the report for the most part available so far as Finance.

Police, and of the Convention 1 lie Postal tion, hoi as stilted 16th Muy.-i'.ilT.

self-government," ,ii his of hi-h a scheme is doi:e the Con- discharged the task it I \i-- purpose oi' letter for ■ producing and until '<.
'■< serve this by "of Jll.

Thai nu the creation of an Irish Parliament the administrai.ion of the Customs and Excise services shall be entrusted to a Customs Hoard composed half of persons nominated by the Imperial Treasury and half of persons nominated by the Irish Treasury, with a Chairman appointed by the duties the King.

Among Board shall fall the ascertainment true Irish Customs und Excise Revenue.

of^the of the ol contribution to determine which IV.

That, as soon as may lie.


a Royal Commis- the sion shall be appointed Ireland amount should pay to the expenséis of the Empire, and the practicability of establishing a two Free Parlia- countries, the control oi ment its Customs the to Ireland between Imperial and Excise.

transfer should '!

'■■- the 'on V. The embodiment ment- the Grand Committee, tinuance of the discussions on which pronounced in resolutions of the agree- the Report of the con- and on the heads the Convention has not yet its opinion.
VI.

The framing of a Joint Report on subjects has been the framing of joint or on have not been on which a general reached, and individual memoranda which general reached.

agreement agreements subjects on remaining does not bind Convention, for decision.
If is true the Grand Committee, this report the less even on the points on which no dif- the pro- is recorded, that still all visional ■.>,,«.on understandings because Were which full agreement ; and it cannot on the general be said fact This the Convention reached.

for or rejection of the (.¡rand being agreement it scheme this renders to record Committee's readied has been the more necessary its acceptance report.
It does not seem to me that (his need be a lengthy the Grand the 21 he.uls The Grand Committee were provisional on I, 2, 4, S, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 14, agreement of in their (viz., heads twelve 18, and L9).

nature In view of the of the Grand Committee, representative the careful undertook, I, like everyone else, recognisi - process in respect of the materials for the ■ expedition.

Fortunately, expeditious labours are at hand conclusion of the gn., in tlie Report, whicli has been (I.C.

No.
No.

20) of the conclusions reached by the (band Committee, and of the questions ■ This Memorandu ■ is it is referred to in the Report of the Ulster Unionists (si p. 30).

175 that was given discussion to these matters, and the provisional unanimity on 11k in, I submit that the Convention might well conn apon them without much discus ;ards the other nine heads (viz.. 3, 10.

11.

13.

15, Hi, 17, 20, 21) on which a provisional agreement was not arrived at.
¡t should be noted the lack of unanimity was eon- , that in other cases important, in some eases to one or two sub-heads, in dispute that an- not very two or three matters on there are otlly fined the matters ami which that serious discussion may be necessary.

The points raised in these ten heads are as fol- Head 3.

Sub-Head (3).

The Army ami Navy.


The differences of opinion in the Grand the should the "Irish Government Committee were limited assent (íí) Whether ment !>e required and (b) Whether he authorised torial Force under certain conditions.

need he no delay on these points vention adopt advise them to adopt) on Defence.
committee to two questions: — < » F the Parlia- Irish for Conscription, should to raise a Terri- There if the Con- to the Report of the Sub- after ö years (as I venture respectfully Sub-Head (4).

The question of Commercial will not arise if Customs he re- served.

Sub-Heads (7) and (Si).

The experience of the the diffi- conclusion and involved in full Convention.
Grand Committee culty of arriving at a satisfactory on these somewhat, ra by discussion to shülm^I technical seems The Convent ion might he content to record there was a difference of the fact that opinion on these points, without making a But it I may express recommendation.

a my own opinion to the compromise Imperial Parliament Coinage.
Legal tender, ¡or Stamps and Standard of weights and by declaring as and I I would on I he basis of reserving and measures, regards should stand which had adopted Imperial Acts of 1907 and 1911. in the position of a Colony the provisions of the recommend Patents that, I 9.

The term of the Senate's life the Grand Committee, is not stated by but as the Electoral Sub-Committee have recommended the Con- vention might agr"e. ten years I think where returns .

'i or more Representation Head 10.


The (¡rand Committee have no come to a decision on the question 0 ' Proportional i con- stituency Having regard to the great preponderance of affirmative reasoned argument on this point in the recent debates in both Houses of Parliament, and which must necessarily in Ireland beg to recommend that in the affirmative.

decided to accrue from the adoption of the system.

1 the question be to minorities -Í Cniversity representation.
The outcome representation rural the ma.king with representative* total ol 157 elected member.-., which with and o tle.ee to rome extenl js 54 urban h rs and about 99 rural members, a the w 'II rijve a House ol Commons of 197 members.

oí Th'' the work of an expert would naturally commission introduced to begin work when the Imperial into constituencies delimitation Parliament.

the Bill im.-mhiTs the he is the should he given amendments this head is whether power Head 11.
The point not decided by the Grand the of bills.

the law on was I the could be speedily Committee under Senate suggesting Some time ago a paper explaining this point circulated think ( Vaivention arrived at.

in the Australian to if that the Grand Committee, paper were circulated a decision to money Parliament and to Head 13.

The question of Irish representation in the Imperial Parliament is important.

(íí) In the first place representatives alternatives stated number has to be determined.
the number of Irish The are the adoption of the numbers in the Act of 1914, viz., 42, or the viz., 65. by population, indicated (b) In the second place Irish mined whether the should be a delegation at Westminster by the Irish House af Commons appointed the or whether the voters.

election further should be on the system of Proportional be elected there case the they In the question should former whether by is it must he deter- representatives atation.
In reference to the House of Lords I respectfully in the suggesl that the hish representation House of Cords should continue as at present, and that in such a contingency the matter of Irish in the House of Lordi should be representation reconsidero.!.

he n modelled, that Chamber : mtil Head 15.

This question will have already been be I. of my Resolution if Section settled, adopted.
relative Ireland's mentioned to be paid, pending the Convention inquiry into for making a contribution indicate a rough and the contribution Head 16.

The question of the Imperial contri- the report of bution in Section the Royal Commission IV.

of'my Resolution, must be considered.


Obviously cannot under- take an or do capacity ready more than method of indicating such as my suggestion «if £1 per head of the or Lord Mklleton's population, of 19th December, 1917, that it should be the proceeds of < '; profits tax, subject to a transfer Irish ;■■■ any sum by which the Irish Revenue, at present expenditure of 1917-18 (with, I would add, for the cost of the Irish Parliament.

Ministen- ami neu- table sum.


say £200,000, falls short of the estimated out of these suggestion Exchequer to the rales, The Franchise will naturally be the new of the Franchise under the Representation People Act.

The effect of the findings of the Electoral Systems Sub-Committee is to enlarge urban lich as the Irish 1 and t'i a farther expenditure (and presumably Housing) under the pro- trausfeT of any increased to Land Purchase attributable lswadopted by the Convention, Head 17.
The Report on Land Purchase has already been discussed and is now down on the Agenda Paper for final orders.

Head 20.

Probably a general statement as to arrangements for the Civil Service some- what on lines indicated would bo accepted by the Convention, without much discussion.

the Head 21.

Of the services mentioned Land Pur- chase and the Postal Services have been dealt with above.
The other ¡ „„ difficulty as the proposal is only a provision to enable the Driàh Government to defer venience for purpo taking of administrativ certain services and L controversial.

position to them additions to review to call for.

advantageously in my proposals it seems the are deemed desirable, the whole ; and to afford to the Ulster delegates to, of suggesting in an advantageous situation a further opportunity or modifications of Ulster may seem additions they might dicated Committee.
I would Committee ought not at the outset on as an arrangement ad hoc.

My expectation never be needed.

My hope find in a United Parliament scrupulously demand in, the .scheme which the interests If any to me in- for a Provincial Grand a Grand such to be created but into operation it will rarely or is that Ulster will for Ireland a body to every reasonable the basis of a permanent to be called arrangement, to respond is that follow ready of Ulster.
line that add If the Report of the Grand Committee be* dealt the Convention will be nth in the way indicated MACDONNELL.

March 8th.

1918.

Printed under the authority of His Majesty's Stationery Office By Alex.

Tiiom & Co., Ltd.. S , 'row Street, Dublin.

Il soi).—10.0011.

4, 1918. i