Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698054919245.pdf (Papua New Guinea)
FIFTH DAY ____________________ Tuesday 21 May 2013 DRAFT HANSARD ___________________ Subject: Page No.
: QUESTIONS ................................................................................................................................. 2 IMPROVEMENT IN LAW AND ORDER THROUGH AN INCREASE IN PERSONNEL, CAPACITY AND CAPABILITY OF THE ROYAL PAPUA NEW GUINEA CONSTABULARY ................................................................ 18 ADJOURNMENT ....................................................................................................................... 70 0 FIFTH DAY Tuesday 21 May 2013 The Speaker, ( Mr Theo Zurenouc) took the Chair at 10.00 a.m..
There being no quorum present, Mr Speaker advised that he would resume the Chair after the ringing of the Bells.

Sitting suspended.

Mr Speaker again took the Chair at 10.30 a.m. and invited the Member for Mendi, Honourable De Kewanu to say Prayers.

God of Abraham and God of Isaac, Father we are here before you.

Papa I’m not worthy to call upon your name.

Mi no gutpela man long ai blong yu.


Mipela olgeta, 111 Membas, husat irepresentim 7.5 million long dispela kantri, yu chusim mipela na nau mipela sidaun long dispela Haus.

I pray for your special blessing upon each and every one of us.

Givim mipela gutpela tingting, save na understanding long mekim ol gutpela los bilong dispela kantri na mekim ol gutpela disisen.

Papa yu givim mipela gutpela wisdom, save na understanding because em kam long Heven.
Gutpela tingting isave kam long Heven, gutpela save isave kam long Heven na gutpela wisdom isave kam long Heven.

Father this morning mipela askim yu, lukluk long bel blong mipela 111 Membas long dispela moning.

Papa mipela inogutpela, mipela ino worthy long kolim nem blong yu.

Mipela idast, mipela ino gutpela, but long this morning we come before your throne of mercy long askim yu long fogivim mipela long sampela asua mipela imekim.
Givim mipela gutpela tingting na strong long mipela iken sanap strong long wokim ol gutpela disisen na lo blong dispela kantri.

Papa I pray for your special blessing upon our Prime Minister na Kebinet blong em, na ol Membas long Oposisen na mipela olgeta Membas long Palamen.

Mipela lukluk long God, yu wanpela.

Ol proceedings blong dispela de mi putim long han blong yu, na remaining part blong dispela wik mi putim long han blong yu.
Na Papa God, long dispela moning, mipela askim yu na mipela tokaut olsem yu Bikpela God.

Yu nogat stat na yu nogat pinis blong yu.

You are the alpha and you are the omega.

Halleluiah.

Papa, yu nogat senis blong yu, yu stap wankain olsem bipo na nau.

Papa nau long dispela moning mipela olgeta bai tok aut na mekim dispela prea yu bin lainim long mipela, Amen’.

1 QUESTIONS Ms DELILAH GORE – Thank you, Mr Speaker, my question this morning goes to the Minister for Correctional Services.
Mr Speaker my question is that: (1) Can the Minister advise this Parliament and the people of Papua New Guinea of the mismanagement of the CS as was reported in The National newspaper yesterday and the other days prior to that.

(2) Can the Minister confirm or deny these allegations?
Mr JIM SIMATAB – Thank you Mr Speaker, and let me thank the Member for Sohe for her question on the headline stories in yesterday’s and today’s editions of The National newspaper and other related stories about prison outbreaks over the last two months.
At the outset, Mr Speaker, I advise honourable Members of this Parliament that as Minister responsible, 02/05 I will be presenting to Parliament this week a thorough update regarding the performance of the Correctional Service over the first quarter of 2013.

I will present an in-depth analysis of the state of security of prisons throughout the country.

I will also state key initiatives that my Ministry is undertaking towards modernising and improving the security of our Correctional Institutions.
Let me assure the Members of this Parliament that, while I may have inherited a trying legacy of a struggling Disciplinary Service with an aging workforce, debilitating jail infrastructures nationwide, I have also witnessed firsthand many positive features of a Correctional Service.

It is possible that we can elevate this critically important agency of State from its current low status to higher heights in the not so distant future.
Mr Speaker, this can only come about if the current and future Executive Management of this organisation becomes truly committed in eliminating all forms of ill practices.

Although 2 such ill practices are a result of a few minorities in the Correctional Service, such behaviour has greatly tarnished the reputation of this agency.
Honourable Members, when I gave my inaugural statement to this Parliament last November, I told the nation that Papua New Guinea’s Correctional Service is at a threshold of a new beginning.

Nevertheless, I am convinced that my statement still holds and that the report I will be presenting to Parliament tomorrow or sometime this week will clearly outline why the future is bright for the Correctional Services.
Mr Speaker, in every province that I have visited as the Minister for Correctional Services, Governors and local leaders have overwhelmingly praised what our jails are doing towards community development in terms of achieving a safe and secure environment in their provinces.

The prison inmates are assisting in keeping their towns clean and tidy.
Also, our Correctional Officers are intensely engaging with local authorities and private service providers in enhancing their skills to boost rehabilitation of detainees.

It is only through such partnerships that we can succeed in developing and maintaining a thriving Correctional Service in our country.

Mr Speaker, the events that led to the escape of three hardcore criminals from the Bomana Jail last Tuesday have had a wide coverage by the media over the last two weeks.
However, the revelation by The National newspaper yesterday and today, that the Bomana Jail is riddled with persistent and illicit sexual practices between warders and inmates is a piece of sensational journalism, to say the least.

This certainly demonstrates proof that we have a free but not a fair media movement in this country.
The timing of the release by the newspaper of the contents of an internal investigation by the Correctional Service in my view was not right, when the country is faced with controversy in the maintenance of law and order at this point of time.

Mr Speaker, I would like to inform this Parliament that I have a copy of the same report referred to byTthe National newspaper, which was in the form of an appeal letter dated 25 February, 2013.
This letter sought the Commissioner for a review regarding his decision to demote and transfer the author of this letter to Beon Jail in Madang.

I have also established from the letter, that the author was an internal investigator commissioned by the current Commissioner of the Papua New Guinea Correctional Services in 2012 to investigate a series of purported sex scandals at the Bomana Jail.
The Commissioner has 3 also advised me that based on this investigation he has already taken steep disciplinary actions against rogue female Correctional Service Officers that were implicated.

Apart from that, further steps are being undertaken to dismiss them altogether.
Mr Speaker, for the sake of transparency and sound governance, it is very important for me to stress here that the Commissioner is also duty bound to ensure that the correctional officer at the center of this media speculation is fairly treated, to ensure that he is not done injustice.

03/05 He was obviously highly regarded by the Commissioner when he was appointed as an internal investigator of the alleged impropriety at Bomana Jail in 2012.
The same officer was also utilized by the Commissioner to furnish an investigative report on illegal behavior of inmates at Boram Jail in December 2012.

I am now advised that as a result of The National newspaper article yesterday, the Commissioner has suspended this officer from active duty.

Mr Speaker, as Minister responsible, I shall ensure that circumstances surrounding this officer and others implicated are fully investigated.
I have also directed the Commissioner to provide further details through the media for public information on this internal investigation and the results of the information are now in the hands of the media organisations Honourable Members, I also believe that is vitally important for the PNG Correctional Service to establish a vibrant and amicable relationship with the media organizations in this country.

This relationship must be based on trust, sound reporting and on facts.
Mr Speaker, I therefore wish to assure the public and the media organisations in this country that my Ministry will continue to maintain an open door policy with media representatives for a timely release of information on all aspects of prison security including containment and rehabilitation of citizen incarcerated in our jails.

Mr MEHRRA MINNIE KIPEFA – I would like to ask two questions to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade.
(1) Can the Minister clarify on the status of the appointment of the Acting Secretary position?

4 (2) He was recalled from New Zealand to occupy yet another acting position whilst leaving the High Commissioner duties in New Zealand vacant.

(3) Could the Minister also verify or deny whether the Acting Secretary has passed the employment age limit of 60?

Mr RIMBINK PATO – Thankyou, Mr Speaker, I thank the Member for Obura Wonenara for these important questions.
For the first question, yes, the former High Commissioner to New Zealand has been appointed as the Acting Secretary for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

There is provision in the law allowing such appointments.

When appointment of that nature takes place in relation to all the foreign missions and posts, there are officers who are sufficiently skilled, who will be able to take care of the responsibility affecting the interests of our country in the host nation.
Therefore, its not as if his appointment has left a vacancy such that no one is able to perform or address the needs of our country in New Zealand.

As for the second question, as far as I am aware he has not reached the age of retirement, which is 60 under the Public Service (Management) Act.
I have received advice from my colleague the honourable Minister for Public Service that at the present time there are proposals which are going through the Cabinet where we are seeking to increase the age of retirement.

We feel that we should take advantage of those who are skilled and as you grow older you have the wisdom.

In respect of the Acting Secretary for Foreign Affairs, he has been a former head of the Department and has had experiences in private enterprise as well.
04/05 He was a public servant so if you look at the kind of person that you would like to appoint than you need a combination of skills especially, globally when we are so connected.

There is no issue with regards to his appointment.

He has not reached his retirement age yet.

Mr Speaker, it is a matter for this Parliament as to whether or not to deal with the amendment seeking extension of the retirement age.
This will enable us to take advantage of the skilled people who will become wiser because of the various experiences they have.

5 Mr GISUWAT SINIWIN - Thank you Mr Speaker, I direct my question to the Minister for Sports.

Can the Minister for Sports inform this Parliament as to the current status on the works of South Pacific Games?

Mr JUSTIN TKACHENKO – Thank you Member for Nawae for the question.
We are going through a very busy schedule for the Year of Implementation this year for the SP Games which is proceeding well.

So far we have already started work at Taurama Aquatic Centre as well as the piling for the Games Village at the University.

The Prime Minister did the ground breaking ceremony last week.

Sir John Guise Stadium and other stadiums are now moving forward for the tenders to be completed and major contractors will be awarded.
Mr Speaker, the O’Neill Government inherited these games two years behind schedule and we had a lot of catching up to do.

I am please to say that for the Aquatic Centre, the Global Construction Company had started earthworks and ground preparation three weeks behind schedule however, they are now one week ahead of schedule.

We have some positive things moving forward, the contractors have been awarded through the Central Supply and Tenders Board.
The only issue of process of how these contracts are awarded and the time delay is causing me great grief in ensuring that the job gets done.

As Minister for Sports I won’t allow these Games to fail and we will ensure that the games are accessed in July 4, 2015 where the whole country will be gathered together to celebrate the SP games.

It is there for us to win the same as well.


Our country is the Big Daddy in the South Pacific and we must ensure that the country is put right to the top in many different ways.

We must show that without fear or favor and with crystal clear.

Mr Speaker, the preparations for the Games are moving forward and everybody is working tirelessly, seven days a week.
I have not had much sleep and by the time this is finished I will be bald and in the wheelchair but the most important thing is that the games will be hosted by this Government and we look forward to the end results.
Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Mr Speaker, I would like to seek leave of the Chair, to seek clarification and also ask a question on your premature ruling to disallow myself as the Leader of 6 the Opposition from asking questions relating to the payment of a staggering K7.8 million to Paul Paraka Lawyers from periods February 2012 – May 2013.

Mr SPEAKER – Go ahead, leave granted.
Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Mr Speaker, firstly, let me refer the Parliament to the Constitution Section 115, Subsection 2 of the Constitution, which reads “The Parliamentary Privileges ‘subsection 2 reads ‘There shall be freedom of speech, debate and proceeding in the Parliament’ and Mr Speaker note that it reads ‘the exercise of those freedom shall not be questioned in any Court or any proceedings whatsoever otherwise then in proceeding in the Parliament or before a Committee of Parliament”.
05/05 Mr Speaker, with the greatness of respect you jumped the gun by stopping me from not only introducing the subjects of my questions but also asking the questions itself.

Mr Speaker, there is nothing in the Standing Orders that allows you as the Speaker of Parliament, to circumvent or pre-empt the subject of questions or questions to be raised by a Member of this Parliament and on that basis, Mr Speaker.

Mr SPEAKER - You can ask your question.


Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Let me explain so that – Mr Rimbink Pato - Point of Order, Mr Speaker with respect, the Deputy Opposition Leader is making a statement rather than asking the question.

If the purpose of the statement is to seek the Chair’s leave, then leave has already been granted.

We have got limited time, he should simply ask the question.

Mr SPEAKER – Your Point of Order is in order.

Honourable Member, I think it’s best you ask you question now.
Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Mr Speaker, you gave me leave to make clarifications.

7 Mr Francis Marus - Point of Order!

Mr Speaker I want to clarify what the Opposition Leader said about you not having power.

Mr SPEAKER – I don’t want you to enter into a debate Mr Francis Marus - Mr Speaker under section 284 you have ultimate power to make any ruling.
Mr SPEAKER – I am allowing him to put his question, I won’t allow you to continue with your statement, you should ask your question now Honourable Leader of Opposition.

Mr BELDEN NAMAH - Mr Speaker, thank you for all those who are trying to protect a white-collar criminal in this country.

Mr SPEAKER – Honourable Leader please ask your question to the Chair.

I have given you that privilege to ask me that question.
Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Mr Speaker my questions are: (1) Can the Speaker inform this Parliament and tender the purported letter that was written to you by a certain individual?

(2) Can the Speaker also table in Parliament the restraining order that restrains any Member of Parliament from raising any issue on Mr Paul Paraka Lawyers?

As I understand Mr Speaker, the interim restraining order you are referring to - Mr SPEAKER – You have asked your question allow me to answer it.
Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Let me finish, Mr Speaker, please give me time.

(3) Can you deny or confirm that the letter you received is from Mr Paul Paraka himself from the Paul Paraka Lawyers?

Thank you 8 Mr SPEAKER – Thank you Honourable Leader.

I will answer your last question first.

Yes I have received the letter from Paul Paraka Lawyers.
He has attached in his correspondence to me copies of the Court Orders and I inform the Parliament and ruled against you continuing with your question last Friday because of the fact that I was not given the privilege of fully satisfying myself with the correspondence.
I reported Last week that I received the correspondence while transiting into the Chamber so I never had the chance to fully understand the contents of the letter so I asked that you do not ask the question until I have fully satisfied myself.
I have done so and I am satisfied that your question can be asked today because of the fact that in my own understanding the correspondence were making reference to Court Orders of 2006 and 2010 and they do not specifically bar Parliament from discussing those issues.

This means that you can ask the question and also Parliamentary Proceedings are protected by Absolute Privilege.
You have made reference to the Constitution and we all agree with that and so as an impartial presiding officer I will allow you to ask your question but I expect you to observe some discipline and order in this House and respect.

I think you have a presiding officer who would be impartial to this Parliament and so I will allow you to ask your question this morning.

If you have your question then you can go ahead and ask it now.
06/05 Mr BELDEN NAMAH – Thank you Mr Speaker, since the Attorney General is not present in the Chamber, I would like to direct my questions to the Prime Minister.

The Paul Paraka Lawyers have been paid K71.8 million of public funds from February 2012 to May 2013.

Mr Paraka has solicited the payment of funds through false pretence.

Mr Patrick Pruaitch –Point of Order!


Mr Speaker, since the Minister for Finance is in the Chamber, I think it is only appropriate that the Leader of the Opposition should direct his questions to him.

Mr BELDEN NAMAH – I want to correct the Minister for Forestry; that I am the Opposition Leader and that I have the right to ask the Prime Minister because he is the Chief Executive of the Nation and he has to answer the questions.
9 Mr Speaker, Paul Paraka Lawyers is not entitled to any payments at all as it claims as stated by the Supreme Court.

There is a web of individuals in Government Departments and Agencies collaborating and facilitating fraud in this country.

K71.8 million is a lot of money.

Did the Prime Minister or the Finance Minister authorise the payments?

Mr Paraka and those skimming and facilitating must face the full force of the law.
The honorable Prime Minister and the Attorney General, especially this Government has been preaching about fighting corruption to the core which has been welcomed by the people of Papua New Guinea.

Most of the Government’s agenda would have to be fighting white collar criminals who continue to steal millions of public funds.

Our people are dying or suffering everyday as a result of lack of basic services simply because of a few greedy white collar criminals stealing the money.
The questions I am about to ask are in relation to the massive K71.8 million fraud involving the major law firm.

(1) Can the Prime Minister confirm or deny that the law firm called Paul Paraka Lawyers has any current or valid contract retainer agreement with the Independent State of Papua New Guinea for legal services?
(2) Can the Prime Minister confirm or deny that the retainer agreement signed in 2001was terminated in late 2006 by non other then Honorable Bire Kimisopa who was than the Minister for Justice and Attorney General following an investigation of out-of-court settlements handled by this particular law firm?
(3) Can the Prime Minister also confirm or deny that Paul Paraka Lawyers are a contamination of the retainer agreement by the Honorable Mr Kimisopa and took the State to Court and claimed a little over K6 million as outstanding bills for the contract period from 2001 to 2006?

(4) Can the Prime Minister confirm or deny that the National Court Order awarded the claim of K6 million by Paraka Lawyers in OS/876/2006?
(5) Can the Prime Minister confirm or deny the orders of the National Court obtained by Paraka Lawyers is OS/876 and the entire proceedings in OS/876 was stated by the Supreme Court in proceedings SCM on application by the state?

10 (6) If the answer to question 5 is in the affirmative, can the Prime Minister then confirm that Paul Paraka Lawyers is not entitled to be paid any money against its claims unless the Supreme Court orders a discharge or the substantive appeal is determined?
07/05 (7) The substantive appeal is determined if the answer to questions six is also in the affirmative.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the massive K71.8 million has been paid to Paul Paraka Lawyers between February 2012 and May 2013 by the Department of Finance mainly for outstanding bills or court orders?
For the convenience of the Speaker, Parliament and the people of this country, on the 17 of February 2012, Paul Paraka Lawyers was paid K30 million and under his instruction this payment was made to five different law firms and a private company which, acted as conduit only to end up at Paul Paraka Lawyers trust account.

On 2 November 2012, K13.8 million was paid to Paul Paraka Lawyers and on the 21 December, 2012, a further K14 million was paid to Paul Paraka Lawyers.
And on March 2013, K6 million was paid to Paul Paraka Lawyers and just recently on 6 May, 2013, K8 million was paid to Paul Paraka Lawyers.

(8) Can the Prime Minister inform the Parliament and the people of PNG if the payment out of this huge amount of public money has been sanctioned or cleared by the Solicitor Generals Office or the Office of the Attorney-General?
(9) If no, then will the Prime Minister take the immediate steps to have this daylight robber from the people of PNG dealt with swiftly by the Fraud Squad and Task Force Sweep those who have schemed, facilitated or benefited from this massive fraud brought to justice?
(10) As the Prime Minister of this country, will you refer Paul Paraka to PNG Law Society to be dealt with by the Laws Statutory Committee for what is undoubtly, scandalous and unethical conduct by a very senior lawyer in the legal fraternity?

(11) Will you assure this Parliament that you also pursue contempt proceedings against all those concern for violating the Supreme Court Order SCM No.3 of 2007, which state payment of any public funds to Paul Paraka Lawyers?
Honourable Prime Minister, three senior Judges of National and Supreme Courts have made a decision to stay those orders.

As far as I am aware there is no proper arrangement between the Office of the Attorney-General or Solicitor General and Paul Paraka Lawyers.

11 (12) If there is any proper arrangement can the Prime Minister through the Office of the Attorney-General confirm or deny?

As far as I am aware there is no proper legal services arrangement between the State and Paul Paraka Lawyers.
(13) Can the Prime Minister confirm if the Solicitor Generals’ Office has authorized the Department of Finance to pay this staggering K71.8 million to Paul Paraka Lawyers?

Can you inform this Parliament who in Government authorized such corrupt payment and for what purpose?
(14) Finally will you inform this Parliament as to what will become of the Finance Commission of Inquiry which cost the tax payers K27 million but was suppressed by this same law firm from being tabled in this Parliament by taking up preventive court order which I see as only interim court orders which should have expired or should the State to challenge it?
Mr Prime Minister in yesterday’s EMTV news, you mentioned that you have put aside K2 million to investigate this by setting up another Commission of Inquiry.

08/05 Mr Prime Minister enough of inquiries!

I have researched and have facts which I can provide to you to prosecute the Paraka Lawyers.

Mr PETER O’NEILL – Thank you Mr Speaker and I thank the honourable Leader of the Opposition for these very important questions that are of great public interest.
The fight for corruption and other related issues we have in the country are very serious and this is a cancer that we all in this Parliament believe that we must all work together in making sure that we get rid off.

So I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his questions and I just hope that you would have given me some of the details earlier so that we can be able to give him the detailed answer that he truly deserves.
But I will do my best to answer question and I will also get the Attorney- General at some stage to facilitate a statement in this respect.

But let me put it this way, in 2002 or 2003, the then Government through the Treasurer honourable Bart Philemon went into an arrangement through the Attorney-General’s Office in authorising and approve Paraka Lawyers to act on behalf of the State for numerous Court cases 12 that were outstanding against the State at that time.
I am not privy to the details of that arrangement as you have asked me but these cases have been around since 2002.

Now, the question is whether that contract is valid.

Again, I am aware whether it is still valid or not but as you have indicated, the retainer agreement was cancelled by the then Minister for Attorney-General, Honourable Bire Kimisopa at that time in 2006.
I think I will take it for granted that this had happened and if so then there is a clear sign that the Government has no arrangement with the Paraka Lawyers.

Of course, the court proceedings of 87, which was stated by the Supreme Court as you say, we will also look into that and inform this Parliament on the details of that particular issue.

Now, going back to the question of K71 million that was been paid, I am not aware of the details but we will table the details to Parliament.
However, I want to inform Parliament that we have already taken action on this matter when we came to light that the Paraka Lawyers has been getting payments with proper clearance from the Attorney-General’s Office.

Mr Speaker, what we have done is that we have in fact instructed the Fraud Squad, Task Force Sweep, Australian Federal Police and the Interpol to assist our Police personnel in investigating this matter.
So I want to assure the Leader of the Opposition that we will table that report as soon as those investigations are complete.

I have suspended the Secretary for Finance and the Deputy Secretary and I will go down as far as sacking the cleaner if I have to clear this mess once and for all.

(Laughter in the Chamber) Mr PETER O’NEILL – So I want to say that we are getting the government process to do its job and we must do it in a legally acceptable manner.
These matters have been running to Court frequently.

Every time we bring these matters to public or debate it in Parliament, it goes back to court quickly and so many Retraining Orders affect the government to do its job.

That is why it is important that we use agencies or government; Fraud Squad, Task Force Sweep and Australian Federal Police are already on top of this matter and I want to assure the Leader of the Opposition that we will come to the bottom of this and that is my assurance.
On the issue of pro-bono, we have no arrangement with anyone.

As far as I am concerned, we have no arrangement with anyone to represent the State or anybody else on pro-bono 13 arrangement with the State, and I can assure you that the Attorney-General will give that clarity as we move forward.

There will be no Commission of Inquiries on this matter because we’ve had one Finance Commission of Inquiry already.

09/05 So I want to assure the Leader of Opposition that we will go straight into investigations.
We will go to the Fraud Squad and Task Force Sweep so we can arrest and prosecute people that we believe are abusing this.

It is not only Paul Paraka, let me say this, there are a lot of many other lawyers who have received millions and millions of kina.

And it is not only lawyers but other contractors and people as well who are just claiming government funds in the Finance Department over extended periods of time.
We have an obligation because we are looking for funds to provide government services such as schools and health centres to all the communities throughout the country and yet we have a few individuals who make it a career out of stealing from the public purse.

But we must give them the benefit of doubt and to the gentleman that the Leader of Opposition has mentioned but we are doing everything possible to clear this.
Instructions have already gone out and as I have said, suspensions have been served including everybody who was involved at the Finance Department.

If we have to shut down the Finance Department for one or two months, we will to get to the bottom of this.

MR SPEAKER – Opposition Leader, on the question you asked, I wish to table the letter.

You can pick up a copy from my office or otherwise from me.

I have a copy of it here.


Mr RONNY KNIGHT – Mr Speaker my question is directed to the Minister for Transport.

Mr Speaker, four of my islands in the Manus Province, especially in the Southwest and Rapatona LLG have a serious problem.

The only decent space for a wharf in the Western Islands is at Hagita Plantation on Wuvulu Island where there are two sites.
One made by the Germans 14 200 years ago, which was well-built and had no problems until the site for the new jetty some 50 metres away was used to build a new jetty 15 years ago.

Mr Speaker, they have wrecked the old stone jetty that had served without fail for 200 years and used the rocks for gabions and construction on the new site.

Mr Speaker, the new site is now completely gone, the gabions are rusted and there is now no jetty left there.
Mr Speaker, there are many condemned jetties in Manus, all over the islands, but to be sure, most of them are still partially usable and are relatively close to Lorengau and at any rate, there is an anchorage there.

The islands of Aua, Wuvulu, Nauna, and Manu have no safe anchorage at all.

My questions to the Honourable Minister are: (1) Can the Minister find some funds and as quickly as he can, put three or four deep water moorings on these islands?
One at Aua, one at Wuvulu, one at Nauna and one at Manu island so that vessels serving these islands don’t have to consume fuel just hanging around there for hours and hours.

(2) When can we expect the jetty project recently tendered to be implemented?

(3) I understand that in your statement you advised that we would be getting some workboats.

Can the Transport department see us as a special case and give us funding for a decent landing craft of up to 50 tons instead?
Mr ANO PALA – Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Let me thank the Member for Manus for his three questions.

Mr Speaker, in relation to the first question, I am not aware of the details that he has presented with regard to the old jetties or the hundred year old jetty.

What the honourable Member for Manus is asking for seems to make sense and that is, the anchorage and mooring facilities on the side of the islands which come unstuck, especially during rough seas.
I agree with what the Member is saying and I will support him but I need to channel all these information and requests through the appropriate agencies in the Department for them to process in accordance with the proper processes so that you are given the appropriate approvals to do what you suggest which I agree to as being in order.
15 10/05 Mr Speaker, in relation to the second question regarding the jetty programmes, the jetty programme for the Manus and New Ireland Provinces are for a total of up to K30 million.

Therefore, as you know, for any public expenditure or tender or contract approved by the Central Supply And Tenders Board (CSTB) over K10 million must be approved by the National Government.

This proposal has not yet come to me so that I may bring it to Cabinet.
However, the tender has been called and processes have been followed, but due to some technical problem, the tenders have been recalled and they will be going through tender again.

This was because of a technical problem that required a standard decision to be made within a certain period of time, and I do believe that we are beyond the required period.

Therefore, it is only fair to the companies that have tendered to re-submit their new figures.
Those earlier figures that were proposed through the tender process are now out of date.

In relation to the third question regarding the work boat, the statement that I presented last week pointed out that all maritime districts will have access to a boat.
This is the policy made by this current Government and funds have already been put into place to implement this policy and I am sure your request when properly submitted to my office or to National Planning Department will be given appropriate consideration.

Thank you.

Mr TOBIAS KULANG – My question is a question that has been raised by many of our people in the country.
I would like to voice to this question and direct this question to the Attorney-General, but since he is not present, I would like the Prime Minister to respond to it.

Our people would like to know, if the Government is considering the death penalty by hanging of hardcore criminals.

Will it also consider the same fate for those who have stolen massive amounts of money causing debt and misery for our country?

A similar issue was also raised by the Leader of Opposition regarding this matter.

Thank you.
Thank you.

16 Mr PETER O’NEILL – I thank the honourable Member for Kundiawa for his important question.

This question is a good question because when we see white-collar crimes occurring in our society, our people are very vocal about the punishment that these perpetrators are not receiving.

Therefore, I do believe it is about time that we change some of the laws to strengthen the penalties that will be given to such crimes that occur far too frequently in the country.
Mr Speaker, if you see in the Notice Paper there are some notices that have been put up by the Attorney-General.

In fact, there is a Bill for the Criminal Code which has been presented to and circulated in Parliament.

This Bill clearly highlights some of the issues that the Member is talking about, and I am sure when the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General proposes the Bill in Parliament we will all have the opportunity to debate those issues.
Nevertheless, one of my thoughts is that, we need to put stiffer penalties for white-collar crime in both the public and private sectors.

There have been a lot of stealing and misuse going on in these two sectors.

Therefore, we are going to increase penalties of 2 – 10 years penalties to 10 to 50 years penalties.

11/05 The debate on this issue is now before the Parliament and I am certain that the Honourable Member can contribute very positively at that debate.
Mr JOE SUNGI - Mr Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister and I ask the Minister for Agriculture and Forestry to take note.

This is in regard to the Commission of Inquiry on the Special Agriculture Business Lease.

The matter has been quiet for some time and I have written to the Prime Minister, who actually wrote back to me.

This project is so critical and important for many remote districts, who continue to wait for the Government to bring development such as infrastructure for them.
For example my district has a project under SABL and we have waited for that project for almost three years.

I would like to ask the Prime Minister whether the Commission of Inquiry report has been submitted?

As he assured me the report should have been received last month.

Up to now there is no news on the Commission of Inquiry Report.

Our people out there are waiting on a bunch of lawyers who have been paid so much money to produce the report.
17 Mr Speaker, I would like the Prime Minister to respond so that my people and all the other people from other districts who are waiting for this inquiry can be informed .

Mr PETER O’NEILL - Thankyou, Mr Speaker, I want to thank the Member for Nuku for this very important question.
Parliament will recall, several sittings ago I made a statement on the Floor that I received an Interim Report from the Commissioners of SABL Inquiry and that I was not satisfied with the Interim Report, When I received that interim report, I was advised that they would submit to me a Final Report within a month.

That month has passed by and I am also waiting for that report to be given to us so that we can table it on this Floor.
Unfortunately, this is dragging on and I want to inform Parliament and the Member that we are now seeking legal advice through the Attorney General’s Office on what the options that we have as government.

This is to see whether we continue waiting for a report that is not forthcoming or we will cancel the Inquiry and find ways to recover the cost that we have paid to the lawyers and yet we have received nothing.
Mr Speaker, as soon as I get the advice from the office of the Attorney General, I will act on it and inform the Parliament accordingly.

IMPROVEMENT IN LAW AND ORDER THROUGH AN INCREASE IN PERSONNEL, CAPACITY AND CAPABILITY OF THE ROYAL PAPUA NEW GUINEA CONSTABULARY – MINISTERIAL STATEMENT – PAPER NOTED Mr NIXON DUBAN (Madang - Minister for Police) – Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to make this important statement as the Minister for Police to this Parliament.
Mr Speaker, the law and order situation in Papua New Guinea continues to negatively affect and impact upon the lives of the people in this country, both citizens and non-citizens alike.

18 It continues to have an adverse impact upon the lives of men, women, children, the business sector as well as the government machinery.

The effect the law and order situation in Papua New Guinea has on the prospect of increase foreign investment cannot be understated.
Mr Speaker, if this House will recollect, within the recent past, a string of horrific crimes were committed especially, upon the women folk.

This had the local as well as the international community extremely concerned.

We saw two rapes of expatriate women, a number of killing including those related to socery including and the killing of other women folk.

If you look around, you will see general perception that we really have a lot of work to do to improve the situation in terms of law and order.
Port Moresby for instance, the burnt out shells of vehicles on our street, sends out a very scary impression.

There are many drunkards walking on the streets without care and people relieving themselves on the streets freely.

12/05 Our women walk around always looking over their shoulders.

There are so many unroadworthy vehicles on our roads and you wonder what the Police, the Transport Department and the National Road Safety Council are doing.
Police visibility, presence and response in many of our urban centres, towns and villages has been a cause for concern for a long time.

Mr Speaker, the problem is, I must put it bluntly that it does not rest solely on the shoulders of the Royal PNG Constabulary but on everyone, including and especially successive governments since independence for they have been paying lip service to law and order issues over the years.
The RPNGC has been neglected over the years to the stage where it was under-funded and lacked sufficient numbers of qualified and well trained personnel to cater for the growing PNG population which now stands at some 7.4 million people including our foreign visitors.

Mr Speaker, Papua New Guinea is positioned on the brink of major resource developments in the petroleum, mining, forestry, agriculture and fisheries industries.
The national budget is anticipated to double to K24 billion in 2014 when the LNG and other major resource projects come on-line and contribute to the government revenue.

19 The population of Papua New Guinea has increased from about two million at independence to 7.4 million this year.

This represents an average growth rate of about 200,000 people per annum.

By 2015 we anticipate the population to be about one million kina plus.
Theoretically, and by United Nations standards, we need a police service of 20,000 strong men and women, or one policeman or policewoman for every 400 citizens.

We are currently way below the UN standard with one police personnel for every 1,600 people.

Mr Speaker, the police strength since independence has remained just below 5,000.

Direct police recruitment stopped around 1997 and was only continued in 2009.
However, that has not made any significant difference taking into account the normal attrition rate of 130 per annum due to retirement, resignation, dismissals and of course deaths, thus placing the police strength below or slightly above 5,000.

This is totally unacceptable.

The National Government in two separate meetings, in 1995 and in 2008 approved the increase of police manpower strength to 6,300 and 10,000 respectively.
But to date both decisions have not been implemented due to a lack of government commitment in terms of issuance of clear directives to achieve both decisions as well as insufficient or poor allocation of funding.

Mr Speaker, governments have since independence failed to address the issue of police manpower shortage as well as proper funding and equipping of the police service.

Law and order is the foundation upon which nations are built.
Therefore, law and order must be addressed first before any other development or business can take place.

The O’Neill-Dion Government realizes that our country will not progress and prosper unless and until we get our house in order.

Our Government is therefore serious about law and order and since taking office has been proactively and progressively addressing the issue.
Mr Speaker, I have always used as an example the case of Singapore which was a small rubber economy and a back-water pirate infested trading port.

Its founding Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew transformed Singapore into one of the economic powers of South East Asia because law and order was addressed as a priority.
The Singapore police has grown from an 11-men organization into a force of some 39,000 members and have been ranked consistently in the top five positions in the Global Competitiveness Report in terms of its reliability of police services.

Singapore is able to achieve this status because the Singaporean Police Service is adequately funded and policemen and policewomen are well paid.

The Singapore Police Service 20 also has an excellent retirement package for its officers.
Morale and discipline as well as work performances are high because of these standards.

13/05 Mr Speaker, Police must maintain a visible presence to give confidence to the community at large.

Police must be well resourced and adequately paid so that they will ensure justice is swift and certain.

This will give confidence to the nation and enable the country to prosper.

You cannot have it the other way around.

It is criminal negligence on our part if we continue to allow the situation to remain as such.
Mr Speaker, for the last 37 years Government funding to Police has not kept pace with the population growth, growing urban settlements, the influx of foreign business or the increase in crime.

Crime has taken on a new and even sophisticated level.

We have drugs for guns trade going on, possible human trafficking and of course white or blue-collar crime.

Therefore the perception is that corruption is seemingly endemic and well entrenched within our society.
Mr Speaker, it is critical now for the injection of the required or appropriate funding and resources to our Police service.

This should take priority over other government services such as health, education and agriculture.

If we do not address our law and order situation first, we might as well forget about the delivery of other Government services.

Mr Speaker, a number of observers have stated previously that the government’s commitment to law and order is very essential.
Without it nothing will happen so the Government has a critical role to play in addressing our law and order situation.

The O’Neill – Dion government is serious about addressing law and order and in fact if you recall, about September last year the Prime Ministers’ state of nation address, he expressed the Governments desire to increase Police manpower to bring the Police citizen ratio close to the United Nations recommended level.
He also announced the Governments’ commitment to provide sufficient funding to Police to improve its capability in fighting crime and providing a safe and secure environment nation wide.
Mr Speaker, we have taken the first step of many steps forward in our quest to improve the law and order situation in Papua New Guinea by actively engaging with our closes friend and neighbour Australia .We acknowledge and accept the fact that crime is an international 21 phenomenon and we can only improve and benefit from such exchanges with neighbouring countries.
We have an existing arrangement with Australia through the PNG–Australia Policing Partnership, which is being implemented by both the Australian Federal Police and the Royal Constabulary of Papua New Guinea.

Recent visits by various Australian Leaders including Prime Minister, Julia Gillard and the Queensland Premier, Camble Newman have set the stage for further progress on the policing front.
Mr Speaker, the Government has taken very important measures by also emphasizing on enhancing PNG policing capabilities and also considering the ECP program in the future through a third phase of the PNG-Australia Policing Partnership.

The new and existing policing program will involve 19 Australian Federal Personnel and four externally recruited officers at a cost of $56.6 million over four years.
The Australian Government will also develop an infrastructure body to identify and speed up constructions of major projects.

I want to take this opportunity to officially thank the Australian Government through Prime Minister Gillard, for its continuing commitment through reform process and modernization program of the RPNGC.
In addition, Mr Speaker, we have agreed in principle with the Queensland Government for a twining arrangement between the Royal PNG Constabulary and the Queensland Police, where we expect to build capacity for each of our respective Police Services where they will share experiences and learn from each other Mr Speaker, under his arrangement 150 Policemen and women from PNG will be sent to Queensland to be placed in different sections and stations to gain experience.
The same number of Police personnel from Queensland will be sent to PNG and placed as advisors in Prosecution, Investigations, Operations, Closed Protection and Training.

Through this technical cooperation arrangement members of the Queensland Police sent to PNG will take hands on advisory role in frontline policing.

The cost of this program will be borne by both Governments.

14/05 Mr Speaker, we want this to take place as soon as possible.
As I speak the officials are putting together the package for this arrangement.

Legal issues will have to be looked at and 22 other clearances will have to be given in order for this program to be effected in order for the 2014 Budget to allow for implementation next year.

As many of you have witnessed the RPNGC launched its modernization program last month.
It was able to do so because this Government is serious about addressing our law and order challenge and allocated K276 million for the next five years under the RPNGC modernization program.
This, year we have agreed to free K53 million of the modernization program fund which the RPNGC has allocated to various projects, programs and activities under the modernization program which includes training, capacity building, purchase and maintenance of operational assets as well as Police infrastructure maintenance and developments.

Mr Speaker, it is serious and we are also addressing the accommodation requirements for our Police.
In NCD we will put out a tender for the construction of 250 houses for police personnel in Bomana.

Police personnel in existing barracks will be relocated to new barracks and later we will look into other major developments.

For the actual police recruitment, past governments have not addressed this at all and contributed to the current low Police manpower.
The Australian Government already paid for the training of 240 recruits who will soon be passing out from the Bomana Police College or soon to be renamed ‘The Center for Excellence’.

The Government for the first time in 10 years has allocated funds for the recruitment of 480 additional new recruits.

They should be going into training around June or July this year and the government will continue to fund the recruitment of the new police as we move with the modernization of the Police Force.
Mr Speaker, the actual improvements that this Government is undertaking either on its own or with the assistance of its developing partners are focused on the long-term and with the long-term we want to place an emphasis on the police administrative review of 2004 and also to implement the 61 recommendations given.

I believe we will have major intervention and this will require political will and directions as well as resources to achieve those set recommendations.
I am keen to secure from my assessment as Minister, the concurrence of the Government based on the assessment of the current state of the Police Force.

It requires about K2 billion to address most of the pressing issues that are faced by the Police Force.

23 The number of police at this point in time is below 5000 and the attrition level is high and if we need to bring it to a level that is reasonable.
We will require additional funding and that will have to come from borrowing or secure from outside the Budget.

There is a further indication that we have to work closely with other neighboring countries to enhancing policing in our country.

Our country is like a garden and our Police Service is our fence and therefore, it is critical that we must rebuild and strengthen our fence to protect and safeguard our country.
The magnitude and timeframe for police manpower poses a significant challenge and comes with other associated costs.

And the maximum number of recruits that can pass through the Bomana training facility is close to 1000 or 990 each year to be exact.

There is work progressing to transform the Police College into the Center of Excellence and that is expected to cost about K300 million.
Funding for this exercises is expected to come jointly from our development partners, Australia and the Government of Papua New Guinea.

15/05 This is not covered under the K2 million proposals, which we must find somehow to correct most of our problems that we are now facing.

To enable the Royal Police Constabulary to achieve the increase in man power to 10 000 plus will require the training of 1000 recruits per year starting in 2014.
We should build three additional Regional Police Recruit Training Colleges at the cost of about K100 million each or K300 million in total in the following locations if we are serious about building the Police capacity.

On average, it will take about 165 recruits per college from 2014-2020 and each college will have to recruit 30 trainers or administrators to achieve those set targets.
A net increase in the administrative personnel will be required to support this additional uniform police and this is likely to be in the order of 233 or 1 for every 22 extra operational personnel.

Mr Speaker, the proposed recruitment drive is expected to cost about K120 million or K40 million per annum over the next five years.

This cost will include recruitment, inward travel, border lodging, uniforms, six months and initial posting after passing out.
This Government’s Vision is to train and post 10 police personnel for each of the 89 districts throughout the country.

And it’s a huge challenge but one we are determined to achieve.

24 Mr Speaker, with the increase in manpower comes additional need for more Police housing; from current analyses the Police still require K2 billion and it will have to find that money in order to build new houses, new facilities and maintain existing ones.
Mr Speaker, this enables more meaningful relationships with the community and allow the development of our mutual trust, respect and acceptance at the community at large.

Mr Speaker, even the additional houses that we will build will still be not sufficient to encourage our strength and participation in our duties.

And that will require Open Members and Governors to assist in providing housing for Police through their PSIP and DSIP in all the provinces and districts throughout our country.
It is a collective responsibility and we have to work together in addressing the housing requirements of our Police Force.

Mr Speaker, if the Government approves and is keen to secure the current assessment of the course to change this Police Force then it must spend more money to rehabilitate existing police houses through out the country.

Many of the houses have gone pass their used by dates and are no longer fit for humans to occupy.
So we may instead look into building new ones as opposed to maintaining the routine maintenance of the current ones.
Mr Speaker, if we are serious about improving the Police Communication Network, we must spend in the vicinity K90-K100million to cover the establishment of 24 hour commands centers in all 22 provinces; including the three designated metropolitan commands at divisional headquarters as well as National Police Headquarters in Konedobu; installation of police radio, 24 hour surveillance cameras, CCTVs in all police stations and police vehicles must be encouraged, GPS for all police vehicles should also be encouraged, issuance of police radio to all operating personnel to stay in connect with the rest of the Police hierarchy.
Mr Speaker, improved and better communication is not a luxury but a necessity that our police deserve.

I am proposing that our Government must make a strong commitment to seek an additional amount of K150 million to be allocated to improve Public Safety Policing capacity.
This will be forecast on our front line policing which have been neglected for far too long and I want to improve manpower training for our investigators and prosecutors and ensure the availability of office supplies and consumables as well as other resources and operational equipment such as handcuffs, batons, right control gear and et cetera.

25 Mr Speaker, most of those are not available at this point in time.
And as much as possible, we must minimise the use of high powered fire arms with less fatal weapons.

16/05 I want to see Police move away from the threatening posture to a more people friendly outlook.

Mr Speaker, with more Policemen and women, you will of course require more vehicles.

If we are serious about re-fleeting our entire vehicles to personal purposes, it will also cost a lot of money.
We need to spend up to about K500 million if we want to service all our police vehicles around the country and 300 police stations nationwide for them to at least have four vehicles per station.

Mr Speaker, however, I have stressed upon the senior management of the Royal Papua New Guinea Constabulary that vehicles must be seen as a secondary mode of transportation to assist the fight against crime.
I have impressed upon the senior officers that the primary mode of transportation and the most effective type of policing are the God given legs.

Foot patrols must be encouraged nationwide to ensure more visibility, presence and enable Police to be attuned to our communities in the country.
Mr Speaker, uniforms are also expensive and if you look at the cost of properly attiring the entire police personnel, it will cost us about K15 million and it will only cover 5 000 plus personnel and if you increase this number, you will still have to spend more for uniforms.

Mr Speaker, accountability as well as quality of our uniforms have always been a major challenge for our Police.

Uniform by definition means the same or identical and what our Police currently have is anything but uniform.
In this regard, the Royal Papua New Guinea Constabulary under its modernisation program has already launched its new look and more friendly uniform.

What is currently being worn will be phased out and new uniforms will be issued to every member of the Royal Papua New Guinea Constabulary.

This will be a major boost for the morale of our Police and it is expected to encourage better discipline of our members.
Mr Speaker, based on our current assessment and analysis, there is a huge need for more injections of funds to address the current problems faced by our Police.

We are looking at increasing the manpower to 10 000 personnel by 2020.

We are focused on improving police 26 training facilities.
We want to improve police housing nationwide, we want to increase police establishment including police stations and cells nationwide, we want to improve police resources nationwide including vehicles, communications uniforms and proper firearms.

And again, this will require a lot of support from the Government.
Mr Speaker, the current assessment of K2 billion required for Police may sound to be very expensive but it is necessary to advance reform and transform our Police into highly professional, trusting and caring Police Service capable of meeting existing as well as future policing challenges in order to create a safe and secure environment for our people.
Mr Speaker, in conclusion, the decision to increase police manpower, capability and capacity is in line with the current Medium Term Development Strategy, will align and provide support for the forthcoming long term development strategy.

A safer and more secure society, our country will enhance the chances of attaining and maintaining increased economic activity and investment in the future.
Mr Speaker, I finally want to thank the Prime Minister for having the vision and foresight in supporting our endeavours in improving our Police Force, and also supporting the ongoing Police Reforms through the modernisation program.
It is important to also state that if this country is serious about addressing law and order, it has to agree in securing additional funds to the vicinity of K2 billion for strategic intervention programs so that it can address most of the current problems faced by the Police Force.
17/05 Mr Speaker, I am confident that the Government has started off on a good note and we are keen to work in partnership with all our friends and our neighbouring countries in helping our Police to assist and protect the citizens of this country.

Mr Speaker, I commend the paper to Parliament.

Sir PUKA TEMU (Abau – Minister for Public Service) – I move – That the Parliament take note of the Paper.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, I want to commend the Minister for Police for doing an excellent job so far, and also for a very visionary statement outlining a very manageable and 27 practical solution to this long overdue issue of the Government taking charge of law and order in the country.

I also commend the leadership of the Prime Minister in making this one of the Government’s top five priorities under this Year’s Budget that was handed down in November last year for this year, the Year of Implementation.
Mr Speaker, it is really up to us now.

In particular, I want to comment on the issues of abiding by the law.

In my observation as a leader, many people around the country, in different sectors are basically ignoring law and order by doing their own things.

For example, when the Governor of NDC is saying don’t sell betel-nut as a policy, you don’t have to have a law for that, but, there are people who, when the Police go and chase them out, they go back again a week later.
So we really have to do something about the culture and mentality of non adherence to the laws.

It is about our mindsets.

As the Member for Goroka I said that we can train many, many policemen and cover the country but, policemen will continuously change law breakers if we don’t change this mentality.

And that is the point I would want to emphasise.

As I mentioned, I would suggest a very simple strategy.

And that is through our education system.


If we introduce a curriculum from elementary right down to universities where we basically pick up the issues of nationhood and sovereignty in law and order and try and articulate and orient that mindset in children when they are four to five years old so that when they get to 21 years of age that mindset is built into them already.

This is similar to what the religious world does.

Every Sabbath and every Sundays there are citizens who go and are preached at.
They are basically being indoctrinated with enormous propaganda in religious issues.

That’s the type of propaganda we really have to take in terms of medium to long term – Mr Bire Kimisopa – Point of Order!

The word ‘indoctrinated’ by churches, I think is out of context.

It should not be used.

The churches are not indoctrinating people.

Mr SPEAKER – Thank you, Member, your point of Order is out of order.

Go ahead honourable Minister.


28 Sir PUKA TEMU – It’s an indoctrination process, Mr Speaker, its all part of this.

My term is indoctrination because people will change their cultural positions if you convince them through whatever means.

And that’s the point that I am getting at.

I am a churchgoer as well and I also want to be indoctrinated in this thing, so there is no offence intended to the Member.
The point I wish to make is that we really have to work on the mindset of the young citizen now so that 19-20 years time, hopefully he will become better in terms of respecting authority, respecting government, respecting properties and refrain from unnecessary spitting of betel nut and so on.

We are trying to address this issue so that our mind is orientated towards obedience rather than disobedience.
18/05 Mr Speaker, I strongly suggest that through the Minister for Education we should introduce a curriculum to address this issue as a long term approach.

There are many short term strategies that the Minister has already mentioned today, but one issue that the Government and the Nation as a whole has to do in what I like to call, an institutionalised process.

This is the first point that I would like to raise.

My second point is in relation to the gun issue.


I think it is time we bring the Gun Control Summit Report to Parliament so we can debate on it, because Parliament really needs to make a decision regarding this matter.

Mr Speaker, I am one leader that do not know how to fire a firearm.

I do not carry guns and therefore, I am in support that no one else except the Disciplinary Forces can be armed with firearms.
Even so, people should not be carrying knives and axes in public areas, particularly, in the towns and cities where it is busy with people.

Therefore, Parliament must seriously consider addressing this issue and with the leadership that the Prime Minister is providing, Parliament must really debate on this gun issue.

Parliament must pass a law because this is one weapon that many people have access to.
Last night at about 8 o’clock, I drove passed Police who were looking for the escapees from Bomana Jail at Bautama.

It was good to see them out there doing their duties.

Nevertheless, we are wasting resources chasing criminals around.

29 My third point is in regard to the proposed isolated prison facility for hardcore criminals to be built in the Manus Province.
I would like to suggest that we utilise technology for a tracking system to keep track of the movements and whereabouts of our hardcore criminals while they are at that facility.

If we can use GPS to locate any vehicle anywhere in the country then the same can be done to our hardcore criminals.

My final point that I would like to raise as part of this debate is in regards to the youths of this country.
When I go to the shops and stores I see that young girls are employed and work in those shops and stores.

Some of our young boys and men are walking around aimlessly outside.

Our male youths are missing out on employment opportunities.

That is why they roam around aimlessly and get themselves into activities that are unlawful.

My Speaker, I strongly suggest that the Minister for Labour and Industrial Relations to bring about a Job Creation Policy.
We, as a government must pronounce a job creation policy.

The Prime Minister has already announced that the Agriculture Sector is aiming to also address this unemployment issue.

The Tourism Industry is a sleeping giant where many citizens can be employed.

In the process of creating a Job Creation Policy, the Minister responsible for the youths of our country should look at the idea of a National Youth Service.

19/05 We have to engage young people under the National Youth Service program.
In this way Police, the churches, and the Defence Force can be brought in order to nurture these young brains, at a time when their minds are developing faster than us.

We hope that we will bring control and discipline in some of these young people.

I strongly believe in reintroducing the National Youth Service, so that we can engage young people that are out there on the streets throughout the country.

Many of them are really disengaged.


The issues of employment, engagement, and the issues of indoctrination and issues of using IT are very important.

Mr Speaker, in support of the Minister and I wish him all the best.

I look forward to the 2014 Budget.

Like what we have done to Education and Health, I think the Police Force in particular, deserve all the support that we can give.
30 Finally, from my local experience in Abau, policemen have been there for over 30 years and they have aged and are unfit for duty.

We need to rotate Police Officers for at least a three- year term rather than leaving on the same location for a long period.

Mr Speaker, the Minister is doing an excellent job.

These are minor things, if we clean them up, the bigger things will follow.

Sitting suspended.
Sitting suspended.

20/05 Mr JAMES MARABE (Tari Pori – Minister for Finance) – Thank you Mr Speaker, I would like to join the debate on the Statement by the Police Minister.

The Minister has exposed to us what he is doing especially, in light of the shortcomings and deficiencies insofar as the Police is concerned.

Mr Speaker, without policemen and women maintaining good law and order, we would not be doing a favor to this country because the development endeavors of the Government would still be lacking.
Mr Speaker, some key indicators of the Police as per the statement by the Minister is that the population has far out grown Police personnel that we have in place.

It is now nice to know that the O’Neill-Dion Government is working towards directly recruiting policemen and women.

This will ensure that we have an increase in manpower against the increased population growth.

Mr Speaker, the challenges are huge.

I came back from my Electorate yesterday.


There is a need to deploy policemen and women in our rural areas because we need to protect certain areas as far as our national interests are concerned.

The population is over 300 000 in Tari and Hela.

The PNG LNG Project is also there as well as many key assets.

For instance, the power line that runs from Hides to Porgera that keeps the Mine in operation.
So, how can you serve an active population of three hundred thousand plus with only 30 policemen against the increased population growth.

You all know who my people are and I do not need to explain.

Mr Speaker, yet there are key important national assets in those areas.

Those are just statistics facing my province.

So we have to continue to look into our efforts to support the 31 police Force.
I know the Government is working towards increasing police capacity as the Minister has correctly alluded to the needs.

We can make arrest in the cases where arrests are made but continual investigation, prosecution and eventually laying charges and the charges being served effectively through is not being followed through because there is continuous lack of capacity of the PNG Royal Constabulary.

Mr Speaker, I think the Minister for Police has laid out in his first quarter report on what he is doing.
We will continue to support him as a Government Mr Speaker, and when the Government gives that support to Police, I would like this Parliament to have a bi-partisan approach to ensure that we fully equip the Police Force.

We must equip them to the level where they can protect our country and protect it from the increased law and order problems in our nation.

The prospect of our future is currently looking good.

Our stand and intervention in policing is to be made today.
Amongst the key sectors like Education, we had our very learned Minister for Public Service who made his statement this morning on the need for law and order and the intervention to be made.

Some of the fundamental issues like intervention in education.

Mr Speaker, I would like to make a note on the points that I have raised.
21/05 Making interventions is important and this Government give support in Education and in Police as we have indicated in this Budget, but more importantly in the later budgets if the Police Minister comes in and seek support for his budget submission then I will appeal for all of us to support it.

The maintenance of law and order is a key ingredient in the continual growth of our economy and the country, so let us give the Minister for Police our support.
Police officers around the country are working under extreme conditions and we do not need to continue to repeat the situation of the condition of employment.

Let us also take time to commend policemen and women who continue to remain faithfully at their postings in various parts of the country and we must continue to give them more support.

The Government is looking forward to supporting the Minister and making sure that the Police receive its due attention.
32 Law and order remains in the top five priority areas of this Government and we will give the Police the support they need and I appeal to the Members of Parliament who have not made direct appropriation to police housing, as accommodation is a critical issue and we have received allocations through DSIP and PSIP and it is incumbent upon us and whilst awaiting the National Government, we, the Members of Parliament should make some commitment to assist in the government’s prioritized areas.
Mr SAM BASIL (Bulolo Open) – I would like to join my colleagues in congratulating the Minister and the Government for ensuring that all the Ministries are responsible by coming up with quarterly reports which will bring debates and good approach from Members of Parliament to address issues concerning our country.

Mr Speaker, law and order is a major concern for everybody.

For us, in the Morobe Province, the problems that we are facing there I believe are the same in many other provinces.
We have had our share of problems back in Morobe in terms of lawlessness and civil unrests but I would like to remind the Minister that in Lae, the police manpower is about 189 to 190 on the ground.

22/05 The population I believe is more than 300 000 and that equates to 1500 people to a policeman.

Lae city with that kind of population needs about 750 policemen and in my Electorate of Bulolo there are about 100 000 and that equates to about 3000 persons to a policeman.
With all those problems, we see that there is law in Papua New Guinea but there is no order on the streets.

In last weeks debate I was listening to one of the Founding Fathers who spoke and he said if there is no law and order in Papua New Guinea, let’s forget about everything and I believe the Minister repeated that today.

I believe that one day our Government should stand up and say we suspend all infrastructure projects for next year and this year we allocate K2 billion for the Police Force.
I believe one day, a government should stand up and make that decision because I feel it requires a strong government to make that decision.

The Minister said that his Department needs K2 billion and I support the Finance Minister who said that the problem needs a bi-partisan approach.

33 Law and order in the country must not be politicized and we must all work together because it represents the true color of Papua New Guinea.
We have had attempts in the past to bring Enhanced Co-operation Program (ECP) into the country and the former Governor of Morobe who is no longer in Parliament took out a Supreme Court Reference against the decision and we have seen the Australians withdrawing their Police support.

While they were here they started cleaning up the Police Stations, they began putting computers and printers in the stations and made sure that everyone turned up in time for work.

Why can’t we do that now?


Why don’t we get those Australians to come and teach us basic house-keeping in the Police Stations?

We haven’t really met up with the ratio of 400 persons per police officer.

If we would have exhausted all those avenues, let’s be serious and maybe in the next budget put aside funds to build up our security as this is important for our survival.
While we are talking about law and order in the country I believe that all our attention will be in NCD, Lae and other 20 provinces of the country but what about the 80 per cent of the people in the rural areas.

The 89 Members of this Parliament 70 represent rural electorates.

Mr Speaker, while we are talking about putting more policemen on the streets to address the robberies that are going on in Lae and Port Moresby cities, our electorates do not have the police manpower that we are talking about.
In some areas when there is a tribal conflict people kill and bury themselves and the report takes about 3-4 days before it gets to the authorities and the body has to be dug out to be exhumed because there is no police on the spot to attend to these matters.

Mr Speaker, when I became a Member in 2007, I looked at the problems in my district Bulolo.
We have had ethnic problems and when I look at the root cause of the problem with the authorities on the ground we found out that the problem started from the market place.

Somebody decided to stab another person and there was no police to make arrests so it was up to the victim to get his relatives to retaliate and the problem worsened and they called the politicians to go in and mediate.

Mr Speaker, this is not my job, I do not want to mediate on lawlessness problems and Lae is very popular.
They call us, the MPs to go and meet those people and listen to them.

34 23/05 Did they arrest the people from Goroka who went and burnt the houses belonging to the Engans?

Mr Speaker, I commend the Minister for Internal Security for presenting a good statement and laying out his programs on training of new recruits and building their houses that will take many years to establish.
I would like the Government through the Minister for Internal Security to really think about addressing the law and order situation or beefing up the policemen in the rural areas.

I have started some programs in my district.

With my DSIP money, we decided that every Local Level Government in the district should have a least ten reservists, a police vehicle, a gun and we requested the regular Police to inspect them.
Mr Speaker, while we have the DSIP money we would like to partner with the Police Department to make sure that we continue with this kind of program.

Some Members have spoken against this program, but I have tried it out in my electorate and three weeks ago, I sat down with the Provincial Police Commander and compared the crime figures from my district against the previous years and it has really improved.
So, I want to appeal to the Minister and the Government that the Police Reservist program is very good and we should encourage that for a temporary period until we have the regular police to cover that imbalance ratio.

This program really worked and with our DSIP money we can purchase the vehicle for every LLG and build two storey houses so that the bottom part can be used as an OB entry for the Police to lay complaints and receive complaints.
And single rooms behind that house to accommodate five to ten reservists there.

Their allowances can be paid from our DSIP funds.

Mr Speaker, I appeal to the Minister to allow the program of reservists so that it deters crime.

Mr GARRY JUFFA (Oro) - Mr Speaker, before I commence entering into debate, I apologise to you for the disrespect I showed to you.

It was not intentional, I was on the phone when you entered this Chamber.
I want to contribute on this very important statement but before I do so, I commend the Minister for Internal Security for his efforts.

I urged all of us to support him in what he is doing.
35 And I take note of all that has been said by the Deputy Opposition Leader on getting certain things right that we do need major overhaul, such as cleaning up the Police Station, improving our command, control and discipline, and being present at the station at all times, ironing of uniforms and cleaning your face and et cetera.

These are steps we can take without having to wait for the modernization program.
Discipline, honor and respect are the three most fundamental aspects of any successful organisation.

And we can say that discipline, honor and respect have left our Force and that is a fact.

Three days ago a friend of mine called the Boroko Police Station to report a crime, where a young girl has been sexually abused by the father of the baby she cared for.
And after almost half an hour he finally got through and the officer on duty said, we will transfer you to the appropriate division and they transferred his call to another division and there he waited for another half and hour.

And then finally he was transferred back to the switch and then they told him that they have no vehicle.

So come back tomorrow at 9 o’clock.

That’s something that is commonly happening in all police stations.
A few days before that there was another incident where a young girl was a victim of rape by a foreigner.

The policemen told the complainant to go and tell the perpetrator to come so that they would question him but he flew out of the country.

24/05 These types of things are happening on a regular basis and there are things that we can resolve without having to wait for the modernisation program to take place.

Somewhere along the line, we have lost command and control.
There is no discipline in the Police Force anymore and a lot of very good young officers are frustrated and are leaving the Force for the corporate sector.

When you look at the ratio of Policemen per population, this is the problem that faces all of us throughout the entire country.

In Oro Province, we have 67 policemen for 180 000 people.

It is a ratio of almost 1:3000.


In this day and age when modern technology is available, we can be able to improve policing but to get there, we must improve our own management first.

To improve management, we must focus on discipline; establishing command and control.

36 I hear a lot of cries about the ECP coming back and there’s many in the society including politicians who are saying, we should bring them back.
I would like to say that if we bring them back, they should come in on a capacity building where they are training us or assisting and working with us and not as an alternative police arrangement as was the case when they first came here.

I was a law enforcement officer working at that time when they came in.

I was an intelligence officer for the Customs Department and we were working with the Transnational Criminal Intelligence Unit addressing transnational crimes.
And I can tell that many of you do not know that actual violent crime statistics increased during that period of time.

No one is collecting these statistics and providing to us so that we can make informed decision but that is what happened.

There are certain things that we need to do ourselves.

If we are hungry, we will find food for ourselves and not ask somebody to eat for us.

If we are sick, we will drink the medicine ourselves so we must resolve this kind of problems ourselves.
Yes, we can ask them to come in and assist but we should allow ourselves to step back and admit that we have failed to be an independent country.

That is what we are basically saying.

So if we are going to ask for police assistance then we must structure the agreements in such a way that we maintain our sovereignty.

Now, increasingly Police Forces around the world are relying on two methods of policing.
They are relying on technology and they are relying on their efforts to be interactive with the communities; an intelligence driven policing effort.

So if we want to modernise our Police Force, these are two aspects that we must consider; very important aspects of policing.

You look at the training colleges that you want to put up.
We used to have a Joint Training College in Igam Barracks where everyone who wanted to be in the Discipline Forces went to train and after that you became a CIS officer, Policeman or Soldier.

But the fundamental aspects of disciplined of honour and respect were meted out in that training facility.

So you learn those fundament aspects of being a discipline officer and the word itself is something that we have forgotten to be a disciplined officer.

Now we are hearing about an incident in West New Britain.
This is an example of two Disciplinary Forces coming up against each other in a very undisciplined manner.

This is because we have forgotten our roots.

If you think carefully, our culture was based on discipline, honour and respect.

‘Em pasin bilong hausman’ is what we say.

They trained you so when you 37 go in as a young man, you come out matured and embracing those principles.

So we must also take into account these principles in our training programs.
Violent crimes are a reality in Papua New Guinea and they occur everywhere.

We are a weapon culture people so how are we addressing this?

We cannot just enforce the law but make an effort to educate and create necessary awareness.

Where do we start?

We start in our homes; discipline starts the home.

Where are the parents?

Many parents do their own things and neglect their children and they don’t know where their children are or whom they are with.

This is where discipline breaks down.


Where are the churches?

25/05 Many churches have become businesses and are not concerned.

All the pastors are carrying pot bellies and driving around in VX and are not aware of where their congregation is and what they are up to.

We must also look at these situations in our societies and as leaders we must set examples.

We must also talk to our people so that mothers and fathers can improve on their parenting skills.
At the same time, the responsibility of policing is not the responsibility of the Police Force alone.

It belongs to many other government departments and many other organizations as well as individuals and leaders.

For instance, there is a huge void in the area of addressing drugs and steam.

Drugs and steam are now a big problem in all the districts.

All the leaders here and the people in the Public Gallery will agree.
Everywhere you go the drug and steam bodies are controlling the places and they control the streets.

They form little groups and soon they may form a political party and get themselves in here too.

And where did the National Narcotics Bureau go?

Is it in existence?

And what is the Education Department doing about this?

And wherever you go, the youths are in a drug or steam induced stupor and they control the society.

They do it up to the stage where they irk the people who then rise up and fight them.
And when there is no police action then there is payback and feuds resulting in deaths, arson, destruction of food gardens, lack of peace and so on.

38 So, we need to address these issues too.

We cannot say it is the problem of the Police only.

We must look at ourselves and try to appreciate what problems are prevalent in our societies resulting in parents not training their children properly.
They are more concerned about informal sector where they sell flex cards, multiple DVD,s and betel nut and are not aware of what their children are up to.

These are things that we need to ask ourselves.

But we must all support our Police Minister.

But I must say that, Police Minister, command and control in our Police Force is the first thing we need to address.

And if we need to bring someone in from outside well, why not?
Bring some one in for a two-year stint and get some of our young policemen to understudy them.

Send some of our people abroad, may be to Singapore or England and then after they have completed their studies they can come back and we can select the best ones.

We can restructure the management of the Police Force to establish command and control, discipline, honour and respect so that the Police will go out and the people will be satisfied with them.
They will see them and respect them rather then fear them.

At Five Mile my people who sell betel nut there told me that a police vehicle came, held them up and confiscated all their betel-nuts.

The people said, hey, if you want betel-nut we will give them to you, why do you have to hold us up.

So there is this disconnection between the people and police which we need to address.
From the perspective of the Oro Province, I have established a Highway Patrol, a Tourist Police concept and we allocated K2 million to try and repatriate aging officer, recruit new ones and so on.

So, I concur with the Deputy Opposition Leader.

We need to dedicate resources to policing because without law and order, without a safe and secure environment, this country cannot progress.
We can talk about economic development until day break or even until next year or 10 years from now but if we do not fix the law and order situation we will all feel the pinch of it.

Mr BIRE KIMISOPA (Goroka) – Mr Speaker, I commend my colleagues and the Minister for Internal Security.

Mr Speaker, internal security or law and order is not a minor item, it is a big issue.

39 But, Mr Speaker, can I say this by way of an introduction as part of my debate.
Law and order is a problem that is associated with the economy.

We will still be solving law and order long before all of you guys sitting here, all you Members of Parliament, excuse me, and the honourable Member for Lae, as soon as we leave this Parliament the problems will still be here.

So the work of reforming the RPNGC is an ongoing work.

It won’t finish tomorrow.

Mr Speaker, we also need to know that Papua New Guinea faces a multiplicity of problems.
It’s not only law and order, it’s also health, education, roads, bridges and many more.

So, with the limited resource envelope that we have we need to prioritise exactly where we want to make the critical investment into law and order.

Mr Speaker, it seemed to me that half of the problems of law and order that has been mitigated on a daily basis in this country have been attributed to the work of the churches.
26/05 The churches have been ridiculed on this Floor of Parliament, but I can honestly say that, Papua New Guineans have been taught well through the Christian Faith.

That is why they have the ability of minimising problems before they happen.

I will give an example, in my electorate up in Goroka, we have this famous market called the ‘World Trade Center’.

Whenever a domestic dispute erupts in the market between a husband and wife the people intervene if a husband is bashing up the wife.
The people there do this because they believe in the institute of marriage and they believe it is wrong to bash up a wife in public.

Mr Speaker, the churches therefore, are doing a considerable amount of work.

Mr Speaker, all of us here come from a rich cultural background.

Before the arrival of the white men into this country, our people had set moral and ethical standards that guided, protected and governed our traditional societies.

Therefore, what has happened to Papua New Guinea now?
All of a sudden we have lost this rich history and the mutual respect for each other.

The churches have been doing a wonderful job in this country.

If it was not for the churches of this country, we would be overrun by criminals and mind you, it will be overrun by security companies as well.

Mr Speaker, the security industry is a consequence of our failing law and order problems in the country.

This industry is worth almost K300 million a year.


I was privileged enough to 40 help put legislation to establish the PNG Security Industry Authority in this country.

This industry makes millions of kina every year.

When someone wants to build a house, the first thing he or she thinks of is putting up a fence around it for the reason being that, they all live in fear.

The issue of law and order is a cultural problem so we will still be having this debate for a long time yet to come.
Mr Speaker, I have two suggestions and like I said, the Minister has come out on top.

He has canvassed all the issues affecting law and order.

He has done a remarkable job and I want to commend him.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to say this, you cannot ask for everything and try to fund everything under this climate.

Therefore, we should zero it down to something realistic.

In short terms, what do we need to do?


There has been some arguments where some politicians who think that we should never bring the Australians here.

During my time as the Minister for Police I faced the same problems with politicians in Parliament and also with the Police Force.

While we were bringing the Australians here they were engineering a revolt on the outside.

The reason for this was that people were afraid that the Australians were overtaking this country.
Therefore, I get the sense that we may run the risk of falling into the same trap again.

Mr Speaker, because of the confines of the Budget and the limited resources that we have, we have to be bold and honest enough to admit that we have problems in this country.

We should not let our ego take control of our common senses.

What has sovereignty got to do with someone being raped on the streets or someone stealing money at the Department of Finance?
We have real issues on the ground and we need to bury and humble ourselves.

The Minister needs and we need to bring the Australians back.

They are not here to steal everything or run this country.

We have problems so let us be honourable enough to admit that we have got serious problems in this country and we need outside help.

We are not going to have a ‘haus krai’ next year and another one the following year.
Enough is enough, we need outside help and the terms of the agreement can be negotiated in next year’s bilateral meeting between the PNG delegation and Australian delegation.

That is one short term solution that we can do.

Let the PNG Government and the Ministry for Internal Security deal with the ongoing problems in this country like police housing, police recruitment and 41 personnel discipline like tidiness that’s within their grasp.

But do they have capacity to deal with high-level crimes?
27/05 Mr Speaker, its sad to say that some of our policemen lack knowledge in investigation, for example they cannot differentiate between debits and credits or how will they investigate the transfer of money within local accounts and then to an overseas account?

Mr Speaker, at this critical juncture of our history we have to humble ourselves, we have been independent for the last 37 years and we still are and no one will rob off our sovereignty.

But we have real issues and we need outside help.


I will be the first to rejoice when the Government releases K2 billion to the Minister for Police because then I’ll know we are on track.

But if the Minister struggles next year with the 2014 Budget, then well have to first address the short-term law problems.

Categorize the law and order problems, for instance, the biggest killer in this country is tribal fights related offences, followed by traffic offences.
More people are killed driving in this country compared to other offences causing death and that is due to speeding.

Mr Speaker, looking at the RCPNG, in terms of the entire chain of the criminal justice system, they are the front door and the pinhole service is the back door.

If we don’t prosecute successfully in this country, the problem is shifted to the magisterial courts because we fail in committal courts and the criminals run loose and the rate of criminals and criminal activities keep increasing.
We have a dismal record in terms of police prosecution.

For the short term if we ever embark on a program to bring the Australians back, we should beef up training as the Prime Minister as alluded to in his statement, training in forensic, prosecution, and investigation.

Mr Speaker, our people are watching from the outside and they want criminals to be successfully prosecuted, not from media reports that the person is still awaiting court due to lack of evidence.
It’s incumbent on all of us to realize that we have big problems in this country and seeking outside help is not a mark of weakness, it’s a mark of sincerity and honesty, simply because we know that we have problems and we need help to fix it.

Mr Speaker, the Security Industry in this country stands at roughly K200 million.

Its an industry perpetuated because of the chronic law and order problems we have in this country.
42 Mr Speaker, my vision for an ideal PNG is such that people from the coast are able freely set up business in the Highlands without fear or women driving freely on the Highlands Highway without any form of security.

We need help; we are becoming the laughing stock of other countries.

We have a history of parading the entire crooks in this country, but hardly any prosecution at all.

What kind of country do we have?

We ought to act now and do it properly.


28/05 Mr MARK MAIPAKAI – (Kikori – Minister for Labour and Employment) – The Minister for Police has done a very good post mortem of the Police situation.

What he told Papua New Guinea today are facts about the Police Force in terms of citizen ratio to police, aging policemen and women, the kind of logistics in place to combat serious crimes in this country.
Just listening to one of our senior statesman’s speech last week, Honourable Paias Wingti said our economy cannot grow without proper maintenance of law and order.

Law and order is a priority and I commend the Prime Minister in his leadership towards addressing the law and order issues especially in introducing a regulation for the Death Penalty and any other laws that will combat serious crimes.
Just listening to the Deputy Opposition Leader’s speech, we have to make serious decisions whether we want lip service to Police, Education, and Health.

We must now embark on a very big improvement drive in the Education and Health sectors.

We also allocate considerable funding into Police but how much effect will that money have on the delivery of the day to day Police operation duties throughout the country.

So much has been mentioned about the K6 billion that we borrowed.
As a Government, we have to make very serious decisions today.

If we are going to target four sectors as priority project areas then we should agree on how to spend money there.

We should give K2 million each to Education and Health and off course, the infrastructure that comes together with it.

If these are the ingredients for economic growth, and as a Government, if we have identified those sectors then that is where we are supposed to park the money.
If we keep on giving lip service to the Police Force, we will not get anywhere as echoed by the Member for Goroka.

43 I commend him because we have been in that shoe, and we know exactly what is happening.

As a Government, we have already made a U-turn in terms of our priorities.

If we have to borrow, come on let us go and borrow.

We should be able to repay those loans when our gas moneys are out.
Let us not hesitate to obtain a good loan to assist in curbing such major issues because we should have enough to repay those loans.

We want our country to be a safer place for all our citizens.

Our girls should walk the streets without fear, and our school children lunch monies should not be taken by bullies as they travel to school.

I commend this Government for its approach so we must make a decision and prioritise in those areas.
In doing so, we should be able to know what kind of funding is required and which donor agencies can come in to assist.

However, we can also go out and borrow because we also have our own revenue stream.

The Government must identify those impact sectors and inject the right funding to get those sectors to the required levels in order to support the economic growth of our country.

Many private security companies’ police use codes so we have to bring in legislations to ban such practices.
There are also non Police Personnel wearing police uniforms so we have to also ban shops from selling these uniforms.

This is also contributing to some law and order problems in the country.

Some Chinese shops in Port Moresby are currently selling police uniforms.

So this nonsense has to be stopped.

Security vehicles passing by are also using codes like Bravo which is the secret Police Code so we have to correct that.
29/05 We have to ban the sale of police uniforms by private shops and other items and ensure that only authorized police officers are allowed to use secret codes, call signs and purchase police uniforms.

These items must not be used by other civilians and anyone found to be in breach of these must be prosecuted, because sometimes this confuses the Polices’ system of operation.
I commend the Minister and the Government and the best way now is to identify few sectors and find out the necessary source of funding.

We have a choice to use the Aus$56 million that Australia is giving us, as echoed by the Member for Goroka.

If we want to beef up we have to agree on certain areas that are important within the Police Force and support them.
44 Mr Speaker, the training of 8,000 Police Officers in the next ten years is a very important one which was started by the Somare Government and I am glad it is continuing.

This is the best system and if it means allocating enough money to meet the UN target we have to do it because that will bring real solutions to the current Law and Order situation.

Mr SASINDRA MUTHUVEL (West New Britain) – Mr Speaker, I would like to join the debate on the Police Minister’s statement.
Firstly, let me acknowledge and congratulate him for bringing this statement to Parliament.

However, today I am a very frustrated man because I have just arrived from running around to the Port Moresby General Hospital and the Pacific International Hospital to sort out an innocent young man who was shot by Police.

What happened on Saturday in Kimbe was an act of terrorism by policemen.
Though we can talk about whatever improvements we can bring by investing thousands of money but without bringing in attitude change in the Department we can’t see any tangible development in improving the law and order sector.

Mr Speaker, I see attitude as the biggest problem.


Can you imagine a policeman in full uniform using a police vehicle, a police issue firearm firing on innocent crowd with more than 10 shots and one young man is struggling for his life and I have to spend K60, 000 to medivac him to the city and pay K5 000 to K6 000 to do a CT scan and all those expenses.

We incurred these unnecessary expenses because of the irresponsible behaviour of this policeman.
It is a big attitude challenge that we are facing not only in the Police Force but other State Services like the Correctional Services and the Defence Force.

This problem stemmed from a brawl between the CS and Police Officers.

Because of past precedents set compensations for such lawlessness it becomes a continuous trend because the policeman is from that area he feels he has every right to bring in his family and retaliate.
30/05 They threaten the lives of innocent people instead of helping to stop that problem so I asked my manager to give K5000 of my personal money in anticipation to be calm the situation.

Considering the 6 truckloads of people and what was supposed to a problem between two state institutions instead village people were brought in to solve these problems.
45 Even when I gave that K5000 it did not stop the problem at all but the policeman took it upon himself to get very drunk and began firing his gun in public and right now we have an innocent victim who is fighting for his life at the Port Moresby General Hospital and as I speak he will be going in for an operation.

Mr Speaker, my point is that in order to bring any change in this Department, we have to change our attitudes.

If we do not change our attitude it is just a waste of money.
No amount of money will ever bring much tangible development.

The greatest discovery in our generation is by changing our attitudes so we can bring change in our lives.

It is really frustrating and in anticipation of the law and order situation in our Provincial Budget we appropriated K400 000 to reactivate the Police Reservists and I requested so many times to meet with the Provincial PPC and he always told me we need the Police Commissioner’s approval so that we can have reservists recruited.
Up to now, I have not had any positive feedback but I want to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize to the Prime Minister and the Police Minister because I got the first hand information from my PPC and he told me that CS has three truckloads of officers and were moving to fight with the Police so to avoid this confrontation, I used my discretion to call the Prime Minister directly to stop and further confrontation.

I apologize even to the Finance Minister for calling him.
In this situation, I was only thinking of the safety of the people and I just was calling anybody that came into my head, because I anticipated that one of the Ministers will talk to the CS Commissioner to stop their intentions to fight.

Finally they all agreed and said they would not fight but the damage was already done.

Nevertheless, the person who was shot is a rugby union representative for the country.
He was supposed to travel to Malaysia to represent our country in rugby union but instead he is bedridden at the Port Moresby General Hospital awaiting his major operation, and I am still footing the medical bills for his hospitalization.

Therefore, once again, I would like to say here that it is not about the shortage of manpower, money or infrastructure.
Even though the morale of the Police Force is down due to the lack of proper accommodations and facilities, but by what right and mandate did that policeman think that he had to discharge his firearm?

46 In other countries before a Police Officer fired his weapon he or she had to obtain permission from senior officers, superiors or the Police Commissioner.
Therefore, I am wondering if the Police Force has a regulation that strictly states when, where, how and why a police officer can discharge his or her firearm.

This is because this police officer fired his weapon in public during a busy company fortnight on Saturday.

Therefore, this Police Officer just opened fire into the public as if he was ‘Rambo’ in the movies.

With that, I had to request the ACP for the New Guinea Islands to come.
I even had to pay for the plane tickets for him and the five investigation officers and begged them to be as neutral as possible in order to bring the culprit to justice.

My main concern here is the lack of discipline in the Police Force and the fact that senior police officers turn a blind eye to matters like this.

I can recall that both honourable Paias Wingti and Peter Ipatas mentioned this issue concerning discipline within the Police Force.
Therefore, I have now directed my Provincial Administrator to suspend all other provincial projects and concentrate solely on the law and order issues faced by the province for the next three months.

Therefore, we will concentrate in upgrading the Kabugera Police Barracks, bring in more police officers and train more reservists.

Thus, we will address our law and order issues first before we can talk about other development projects for the province.
I strongly believe that it is about time the country seriously address our law and order issues because PNG is classified as one of the countries that has a high risk in security for foreigners.

31/05 And when they want to come and work here they use this as an excuse and demand for more pay, which will cover their safety as well.

Most of these expatriates who live and work here are paid two to three times higher than their normal market pay.
Though they are not really at high risk but they are still getting big pay because of PNG being classified as a high risk country.

It is about time the Government should provide security for our all innocent citizens of this country.

I felt so ashamed that particular day and I did not do anything apart from just agreeing to airlift that innocent boy.

And that boy was from that particular LLG and nobody wanted to attend to him.
47 Both the CIS and Policeman were drunk and I want both of them to be arrested, charged and punished.

I appeal to the concern Ministers to take serious action upon these two officers and this will teach a lesson to the rest of the law enforcers so that they won’t follow their footsteps again.

Mr KEN FAIRWEATHER (Sumkar) – Thank you Mr Speaker, I have listened to all the speeches today so far so good.

I just want to make a few comments on this debate.


Firstly, there is nothing to be ashamed of asking for people to come and help.

And PNG is not the only country to ask for assistance.

In the Arab States, they use outsiders to help in their law and order problems.

In Europe before, they have done the same by engaging outsiders to help out in their country.
And our neighboring Pacific Island countries like Fiji have an excellent Police Force because of engaging outsiders to run their country for many years.

They have the discipline and do not practice these bad habits of chewing of betel nuts or smoking et cetera.

But the very point about Fiji is that they were torn by a war of cultures between Polynesian and Melanesian.

But they got together and asked Britain to come and run their country.
Britain did not go there on its own accord but was invited to come and run their country and it was a good idea and the end result was they ended up with a terrific Police Force, army and they have a disciplined society.

I sympathise with the Governor of West New Britain and I really like the way he debates because he’s got the best point by saying that both the Police and CIS officers were drunk and that incident occurred.

The Governor of Oro has mentioned about the training capacity of Police.
I do not want them to go to Sumkar to teach my few non disabled policemen on how to chew betel nut, drink and smash the car.

The only thing that the policemen on Karkar don’t attend to is cases of adultery because they just like watching it.

I collected all the reports from Police Officers one night and took them home and it was like watching porno show.

And that’s all they have done for a month.

Everyone one mentioned about discipline and that is what it is about.
And so we really have to bring in the Australian Police to assist.

And I give credit to the Government for introducing this program because it’s a good start.

48 32/05 I am not here degrading previous governments because they have tried some things too but it is a good start to have 150 ECP personnel either from Queensland or New South Wales.

Let us give the Government and ourselves some credit for it.

We cannot cover everything in one day.

I would like to see more district control of the Police Force.
It is easier for me to manage because most parts of my Electorate is made up of islands so I am sure the Member for Samarai- Murua is in the same boat as well as others.

But now we have Police who report to no one.

In Karkar Island, their line of command goes through Madang who also looks after other electorates in the Province who are long way from Karkar Island.

When we go to the Police, District Administrator or whoever, the Police take absolutely no notice.
They say they have no fuel, vehicles or spare tyres but they have time to drive around looking for beer.

You all know that this is true and I am sure it is the same in your electorates.

Later they ask for automatic guns and I tell them to buy them themselves.

They cannot even shoot a cuscus with a shotgun.

It is about maintaining discipline.


So I personally think that the Government had made a good start in addressing the problems through death penalty, ECP and through the Minister requesting for funding.

But I suggest that we should not just give all the money into the Police Department because they have never shown they can use it properly.

I would rather suggest that we should give more to the districts to address their own law and order problems.
So if Police Department is getting K2 billion, it should be broken down and allocated into the districts as well.

So that is the way to go if we are to do it from the bottom up towards minimizing these crimes.

If we are going to get an expatriate policeman in KarKar, I want him to be the boss.

Don’t worry about who gets upset or their noses are out of joint because if an expatriate policeman is not a boss then it is a waste of time.
Mr PETER IPATAS (Enga) – Thank you Mr Speaker, I also want to commend the Minister for bringing this statement to Parliament today.

I think as we all know, the law and order issue has been long outstanding in this nation and it is an issue that has not just crept up overnight.

49 The Member for Goroka who was then the Police Minister seven years ago tried to attend to this issue at that time as the Minister but he could not.
Now we have a new Minister bringing this statement to Parliament highlighting that there is a serious problem.

And whilst we are here, we must remember that we actually represent the small people of this nation.

We have to start to find out what they really want.

We now pay for school fees and health services but are they content?

Is our society okay?

If you go out to the people and asked them, they are more worried about their safety and their lives.

Law and order is an issue.


The former Governor for Morobe for one reason or another decided to challenge his own leader of the same party in challenging the ECP concept and for whose interests?

33/05 The nation is now looking unto this Floor to make a decision.

As the Member for Goroka said, who’s worried about sovereignty, if you do not have life you won’t even live to see this sovereign country.

Why are many Members carrying guns around?


Why are policemen who should have been stationed at Police Stations running around with us in convoys?

I am also doing that.

So, who do we expect to protect the small people?

They are fending for themselves and are facing these consequences.

So I think enough of talking.

I think it’s a good thing that this Government, under the leadership of the Prime Minister Peter O’Neill has now decided to work closely with the Queensland Government.
But, can we also look at why we couldn’t revisit ECP?

If we have to give them immunity, we must.

Look at America, in Papua New Guinea, if a person dies, we don’t even give a hoot about one person who dies.

But if you watch the news you will see that if one citizen of America dies the whole country, Government and President is concerned.

So when those Australians want to come and work here, they are citizens of Australia so their Government has to protect its citizens.
Our cells at Boroko that holds remandees is not good enough, it is not up to their standards.

Our prisons are also not good.

Our court system is good but not that good.

So 50 immunity can be granted.

We have to look at the wider picture.

Leaders, we must take ownership of this issue.

Minister, thank you for bringing your statement on modernization, yes, we all agree that the Police Force must be modernized and made sure that they are ready to combat the increasing issues that they have to face.
But the critical situation now is this, people are still dying, women are still being raped and robberies are still being committed.

We are also still getting 10 per cent cuts.

So, I think the public wants to see which Member has voted against fixing law and order problems in this country.

Be serious enough.

From a personal point of view, I have been a Governor for 16 years and in all those 16 years, we have been dealing with law and order and we are quite fed up already.
It’s not about money, I wish to enlighten you new Members, and it’s not about resources.

In my 16 years, I used to resource vehicles, police housing, allowances, they are alright.

But still they don’t perform.

So, I agree with many members who claim that discipline is lacking.

If discipline is not there, how are we going to get there?

Quality is lost already.

You can’t go and train an old dog again.

We must now look to the future.


In the short term we bring people from outside to help us and at the same time plan and have a strategy in place so that we have a right culture built into these policemen and women.

Two years ago, I put K1 million into training of 60 policemen for Enga.

Those 60 policemen were properly trained at Bomana, they came to Enga, there was no NCO to work with and supervise them on the proper policing procedures.
And after two years those new policemen did not look like new policemen, they were just like the old ones.

So, Mr Speaker, if we do not agree that we have to do something now we are doing a disservice to our own people and I think it is good that the Government is taking ownership of it.

I, for one, would like to know why we cannot actually bring ECP on?

I would like to know what is the advantage and disadvantage is.
51 34/05 Many of us leaders came and stayed here in the Capital, and we do not see the everyday struggle of our little people in the rural areas.

Therefore, we think that everything is all okay out there.

Mr Speaker, on another issue, concerning the issue of guns, we, as leaders sitting here must be prepared to outlaw guns.

This is because people who are licensed to carry guns are the very people who are giving guns and ammunition out to the people who should not be handling them.
We must outlaw guns and allow the Security Forces only to have guns because the rest of us do not need to have a gun.

There is a saying, ‘you live by the gun and die by the gun’.

This principle still holds true, therefore, we leaders should not be carrying guns around, otherwise, we may get shot.

Mr Speaker, I would like the Minister responsible to take note.

All these modernisation will take time to be implemented.

Therefore, I would like to suggest two things to the Minister.
We should bring the ECP Programme back, or if we are doing it through the recently agreed terms with Queensland State Government then that is fine.

Nevertheless, from what I gathered from the honourable Kimisopa negotiated, most of the cost is not going to be met by us anyway.

It was a give and take situation and the Australians did not want a failed State here.

At the same time, they probably did not want all these illegal activities and criminals happening next to their own country.
Therefore, in their own interest Australia was willing to invest here.

When Members of Parliament debate here in Parliament, we have to be careful in what we say.

We can stand here and say that we need policies for this and that but all these will cost us money.

We have done this for education in this country, and now we need more money in the billions of kina to address the country’s law and order problems.

Where are we going to get the money to do this?


We should stop dreaming for these problems are here today and we need to solve them today as well.

Mr Speaker, the ECP Programme was a programme that I supported in which the honourable Kimisopa was involved in and we wanted them here.

For instance, today, Morobe Province is one of the worst province regarding law and order.

I saw on the television that the people of Siassi who brought Christianity to my province have become devastated with crime.
Even in the Esa ‘ala Electorate of the Minister for Civil Aviation has become riddled with crime, and in Rigo or Abau, there was a tribal fight that occurred.

This is an unexpected event for 52 people of Central Province who are not known for tribal fights.

This shows that there is a serious problem.

I would like to commend our Prime Minister, for providing one of the best leaderships that the country has ever seen.

He has made many tough decisions as a lot of things are not in stately order.
We are therefore putting a lot of pressure on him but if the Government makes good decisions regarding our law and order problems, then all other things will fall into place.

Mr Speaker, with that, I strongly stress here that, honourable Members of this Parliament we need to stand together.

Also, what my comrade the Governor of Oro has said is very true.
We are an independent nation and we must have our own way to do things but at the same time we must agree on things, like the Member for Goroka had said.

This country has serious problems and if it needs outside interventions let us bring them in.

We will still run this Government and if we see that they are going out of line then we will take them out of this country.

35/05 Mr Speaker, I agree with the Member for Sumkar.
If Sumkar electorate, is seen as the island of Hawaii in Papua New Guinea and is having problems, that is serious.

Mr Speaker, I also want to say that Enga is prepared to receive the Policemen.

Finally, I support the Member for Sumkar for urging us to take care of our police men but it is not appropriate that police officers should report to a Member, because he is a politician.

We can’t be managing the Constabulary.


I strongly emphasis that police officers within districts must report to the District Administrator and those in provinces must report to the Provincial Administrator.

I have seen policemen misconduct and misbehave in rural districts because their superiors are in Port Moresby and with nepotism it’s very hard to discipline or transfer these officers.
Mr POWES PARKOP (NCD) – Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the ministerial statement presented by the Minister for Police.

53 Like my other colleagues, I am pleased to be informed by you about the update on the status of the Police Force and the way forward to improve the Force to enhance its performance in the country.

It is a big challenge and needs all our support.

For NCD, we are ready to support him in his plans.


Before I proceed, I would like to clarify the statement by the Member for Bulolo regarding law and order and the police within the city.

We also have the same problem as other provinces.

We have a population of almost 700 000 and less than 1000 police officers.

Mr Speaker, the standard ratio accepted by the United Nations is one police officer, per 450 people.

This is not achievable in the city and in the country.
I want more police in the city to bring safety and security for all of us.

I agree with the idea of bringing in police personnel from Australia because the security and life of our people is more important than our sovereignty.

We must not use ‘sovereignty’ to shield this serious issue.
As we can see in Australia, when there were problems of corruption in the State of Victoria, and News South Wales, they swallowed their pride and engaged Police Commissioners from England to serve in each of those two states.

Now they have Federal Police and State Police that are functioning and delivering safety and security for the people of Australia.

If the other provinces are rejecting that intervention, Port Moresby is prepared to accept Queensland Police, or even if its from another country.
The former Governor for Morobe challenged the idea of bringing in the Australian Federal Police but he did not have an alternative.

If we don’t engage the Federal Police, what is the alternative, how do we improve the Police Force so they can perform better?

Are we trying to stop the Government from implementing its plans?

36/05 If we are trying to prevent government’s plans it is important that we also come up with alternatives.
We should not just challenge the plans and put road blocks on them because such attitude helps nobody.

I think the Member for Goroka has expressed it very well.

I would like to make another dimension here.

When we say, there is law but no order let us ask ourselves who are these perpetrators causing law and order problems?

In Port Moresby, young unemployed men were the causes of law and order problems in the past.

They are mainly our children.


54 One of the biggest contributing problems is lack of tertiary institutions.

After they drop out from grade eight there are no skills training for them to solve lives and problem in order to find employment, income and a wife.

During the colonial days, such training existed to assist a dropout but now after being independent our children are left on the streets.

There is no-one to mentor, and help them solve lives problems.
So they find the easy way out by drifting off to crime, alcohol and drug abuse.

We have to curb and stop them.

The Minister for Public Service stated that this morning.

He could have elaborated more but didn’t due to time limitation.

But I agree with him.

We should look at who are the perpetrators of crime and reach out to them to stop from drifting into crime and other social behaviors.

Most of them are our children and relatives.


There are clan and tribal leaders, districts and provincial leaders together with national leaders stand up to do something.

Mr Speaker, we should give more opportunity to our young people, especially the men who can progress to positive life instead leaving them out on the streets.

So we have to reach out to them even to those in the rural areas as well.
Of course we can put money into Police but we must also equally invest it in our people so that they can start thinking positively.

I also want you to know that those perpetrating crime are a minority so we must be clear about this.

The majority of our people are decent law abiding people who want a decent life and security, safety, decent accommodation and employment.

It is only those minority perpetrators causing problems so we should stand up to them.

We should say enough is enough.


Mr Speaker, we are painting the scenario that everything is gloomy and bad in the security situation.

Mr Speaker, we have had a bad reputation in Port Moresby because of the high rate of crime, violence and other law and order problems.

However, we have reduced opportunity crime by 50 to 60 per cent.

We have been working with the front line policing.

We have supported them and have other interventions taking place such as reaching out to the young people.
We are giving them scholarship, skills training and assisting them to find jobs.

We are also putting lights in unlit places so that security can improve.

We are also encouraging retailer and wholesalers to open their shops in the market.

Our people are also 55 encouraged to take up night space so that we can get rid of these minority who are terrorizing us imposing their own ways of life on us.
37/05 Mr Speaker, in the past, these minority groups dictate to us how we live in the cities like Port Moresby, what life style should we follow, what time should we leave the house and come back to the house et cetera.

In addition, we are prompted to erect different types of fencing our houses and yards such as barbed wire fence, corrugated iron fence and even having security guards and moreover guns.
We want to see that these must stop and this is not a Motuan culture and we want say that enough is enough.

We must live a peaceful life in the city of Port Moresby.

We want to live a peaceful life and we do not want to rely on Police and I wish to remind and encourage Members and leaders that we must be innovative.
The Police are going to do their best but sometimes when they are not doing their duties properly, we tend to complain, maybe because of some few undisciplined officer amongst the rest or few rotten apples amongst the good ones.

Mr Speaker, I have been here for the last four years and got good NATSUP and ECP.

They are very good men and they are very good officers.

They do good to our cities and we work closely with them and we continue to get good officers from them.
In regard to that, I wish to thank the past government of the Grand Chief Sir Michael Somare and the current Prime Minister, Mr Peter O’Neill and the Police Commissioner for having good officers all the time.

But I wish to remind ourselves not to rely heavily on Police to provide security because security is everybody’s business; therefore, we need an integrated approach.

If we improve services, the people will be happy and they will not rebel against the State or have negative state against authority.
If we improve the infrastructure project then we are indirectly improve their mindsets.

If we create opportunity for them then they started thinking positive but when we neglect them of not providing them basic services; or the infrastructure is slow, they will start to have careless attitude and act badly in the society where it reflects back to the governments.

So, it is a holistic integrated approach to law and order that we have to adopt.
It is a big issue which we 56 must not leave it entirely to the Police Minister and the Commissioner, because they will do their job but we all must work together.

Mr Speaker, it is not an easy task to bring security to our people but I think with innovative and creativeness, we can start to bring security.

What if we all do like what the Member for Bulolo has suggested about buying 2 million bullets and say, Minister get the bullets now.
Everybody is saying that it is not just the matter of money but it comes back to the budget.

It is ideal to say that we will give one-go 2 million to the Minister but it might not happen, even we give 2 billion, they will ask for more.

There is no such thing in this world called an ideal budget.

Even, the United States of America have three lion budgets, they still fail to fund their projects for this and that.
What we have to do is to manage on what we can so that money we get we will try to use it in a way that we can achieve more.

Supposing if we give all 2 million to Police Minister now, what will happen is, other basic services will deteriorate such as health, education and other infrastructures.

We will also face problems.

So, it will not happen and I cannot see this really happening.
I wish it could happen tomorrow, then we will have enough money to give two million to the Police Minister, the Health Minister, Education Minister, infrastructures and everything else.

Let us not assume that it will happen in the future so, let’s work in an innovative creative way.

Mr Speaker, what I want to remind us is the criminals are the minority and most of our people are waiting for us to stand up tall and find solutions that will encourage them to stand up against this minority group.
In Port Moresby, that is what we are doing; we are trying to turn the tide around.

We are slowly and gradually degrading crime and violence but there are some pockets in the city that are identified as high crime rate locations.

I know you want Federal Police but I asked the Prime Minister already that I have the manpower in the city.

I want the Prime Minister to give me 300 soliders from Taurrama Barracks and let them do the work.

We are paying them for doing nothing.


I could use them in the hot-spot where criminal activities are eminent.

We all know that there is car-jacking or people have been knifed, murdered or killed and it becomes part of their culture and we have not put an end to it.

If I have this three hundred men 57 in those hot spots, not necessarily to kill them but to give them the impression that it’s not worthy to go out there and commit those type of activities.

This will change their mindsets.


38/05 And to do that is the biggest challenge that we are faced with.

Maybe the Federal Police will come and restore it for us and while we are pursuing that we must have some homegrown initiative that we can try.

I think the Member for Sumkar is right by saying that if the police personnel do not shape up and are not conducting themselves well then they must be removed.

We must not wait for the superiors in Port Moresby to hire and fire.
You see the problem in your station you do the firing.

That is how we should keep our policemen and women on their toes to do their jobs well.

And the petty activity has become the culture for that police station and it is hard to curb it and we must have the authority on the ground to control it.

I ant to conclude with an example; in the Devao city of Cebu Province in the Philippines, this province is wrecked by civil war but if you go to that city it s a peaceful city.
Man and women moving around freely late into the night and they have achieved this because there is command and control by Police in Devao city.

The Police Commander is in control and he can hire and fire where he sees fit.

He has intelligence network and he does not wait for Manila to do the firing.

That is what we need in the provinces and now we have all these problems with the police building up; how will they deliver, there onus is in shambles, it is collapsing.
The Minister needs our support but I want to say also that we need to be innovative.

I wish we could reduce crime and violence in the city to the lowest point possible.

All the Members including the Prime Minister, I am determined, we various programs like here in Port Moresby we have Yumi Lukautim Port Moresby and Safe City program directed at the markets to bring security and safety to the markets.
And at the bus stop trying to provide safety for our commuters and we also have night programs to have our people to come out have confidence and confront these people.

To confront their own fears and bring security in the city in a different way other than just relying on police that is the message that I want to Parliament.

Let us think about security in 58 an innovative way.

We want the Government to give more resource to the police and we want the police to perform.
As the Governor of the city, I am not going to wait for the police to shape up, I am going to find ways to support the police and bring security to our people in the city.

This is what I am doing and I encourage all of us to do the same.
Mr WILLIAM DUMA (Hagen – Minister for Petroleum and Energy) – I want to take this opportunity to commend the very hard working Police Minister for introducing a paper that canvasses all the issues that concern the effectiveness and the role that the Police have been playing and at this juncture, I‘d like to commend the Prime Minister for appointing someone whom I believe will lead the Police Force out of this mess.
Mr Speaker, I don’t intent to repeat most of the comments made by my collegues because I agree with most of what they have mentioned.

I’ll begin on the premise that we are all not perfect.

Human beings or animals by nature, we need laws to regulate ourselves.

A classic example is that there is a regulation in place which prohibits people from chewing betel nut in public places.
There are laws in this country that prohibit us from driving through the red light and yet for some reason; we deliberately or otherwise consciously do it.

I agree that we have at least K2 billion to immediately fix some of our problems.

As most of our speakers have said no amount of money can duly eliminate crime provided we give the right funding with the right mix of people who can enforce the law and reduce crime.
Mr Speaker, I have my own views on the performance of the Police Force due to my experiences.

The Hagen Electorate which I represent and some years ago, I also had a problem with police mobility and I was assured by the Police Commander at that time that if they had police vehicles they would be happy to deal with the problem.
So through my DSIP funds, I bought 11 brand new vehicles for the Western Highlands Province and before two years passed, two vehicles were wrecked by drunk policemen with the incidents occurring in Lae and Mendi separately.

Another example relating to housing and in WHP we decided to provide for the Police Department Housing at Kerebuk near Hagen Technical School.
59 About a year later when I inspected the premises, I found in one of the house with all the louvers and screen mesh with doors taken apart by the policemen.

I have this view in addition to what has already being mentioned.

Our human DNA, the make up of our people in this country we have an inherent problem, maybe it is to do with the genes.
Mr Speaker, if we look at the statistics that are coming out from the Scandinavian countries like Norway, Sweden and Denmark, they do not need a large Police Force to govern themselves because they behave themselves.

One way is we can allocate the money but it is very important in my view that we make sure that those people who are recruited are trained properly.

And even after graduation, we have to have a refresher course to maintain and refresh their skills.
I think that the idea of allowing foreigners to come and help us is long overdue.

We have examples in Queensland in the early 1970’s where there was a lot of corruption and they needs the Fitzgerald Inquiry to fix their problems and similar problems have been in the State of New South Wales, they brought in Englishmen to fix the problems.
Mr Speaker, despite what others maybe saying we should start immediately and assist our Police Minister and bring in Australians and if we have to appoint a new Police Commissioner after the current one’s contract expires.
In a country where most of the country’s population are not in the formal sector and in this country where we rely on the Wantok system, where in other countries they rely on the DOLE system, our people rely on each other and many of us have had instances were policemen who occupy sensitive positions like forensic, finger printing, prosecution etc, are placed in a situation were they are forced to deal with their own wantoks.
And because they are not trained properly between being objective and being impartial they are deliberately turning a blind eye and do not work on their files carefully and as a result most of their cases are struck out.

That is a reflection of poor training.

Police Officers must be trained to recognise and disqualify them immediately when they are confronted with such situation that they will have to handle such a case.
We should look at training our policemen properly, if we have to allocate money to retire most of our current serving senior policemen we must do that, clean them out, they may have served us well when they were in their prime but we have to work out a system were we properly compensate them and retire them.

60 We start on a clean slate, otherwise all the things we are doing will amount to nothing.

Another thing that I think we should not overlook is our contribution as political leaders for our people.
39/05 Mr Speaker, as we all know our people look upon us as their role models.

They admire us and some of them even worship us and call us yes boss, yes boss.

We can turn that into an advantage and teach our people.

Many of our people think that they can commit a crime because they have their tribesmen who will pay compensation.

We should discourage this sort of mentality and inform our people that you can not go free now if you commit a crime such as raping a woman or girl.
We won’t give you chance but sent you to jail straight away without any form of compensation payments.

Mr Speaker, if we are that serious about solving our problems then we should not read between lines.

But there should be a black and white law and the rule of law must be enforced.

Otherwise, despite the allegations of so much billions of kina we won’t achieve any thing.
Ms LOUJAYA TONI (Minister for Community Development, Religion and Family Affairs) – Thank you Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to join the debate.

I commend the Minister for Internal Security for a very informative paper.

I particularly welcome part of his speech where he mentioned about the involvement of Open Members and respective Governors of each Province.
I would like to share the experience of Lae District where I had opportunity to touch base with the Police, CIS and the Defence personnel at Igam.

And one of the important issues that I have noticed and I have asked the hierarchy of each of these institutions was that.

I as your local Member, will be assisting you with infrastructure development over the next five year period.

But what I what from you is that you must reintroduce physical fitness.
During the pre Independence period in the 70s, every morning the Defence and Police personnel would wake up in the morning and carry their backpack and run.

Whilst negotiating with other Ministers to bring infrastructures in the electorate, I want all of you to emphasise on physical fitness and lose that beer bell.

I have already built one gymnasium at Bumbu Police Barracks and it will be opened by the Prime Minister in June.
61 Another consideration to the Minister for Internal Security is on rehabilitation.

We have got a lot of trigger happy policemen in the public because there is something wrong with their mindset.

Half of them traumatised and we don’t realize that.

A lot of policemen are responsible for domestic violence with their wives and it’s a big issue.

And so when we see this spill-over effect coming to innocent people and they are shot at by trigger happy policemen and the likes.
And that boils down to changing of their mindset.

Only solution would be to work on attitude and bring physical fitness back.

When you start seeing this sort of behavior with policemen then lets check their mind and rehabilitate.

In relation to the National Youth Service, I would be very interested to have my department enter into an agreement with your department; where we can through the youth populations through the Youth Commission, do some programs with your Police Department.
40/05 Mr WILLIAM TONGAMP (Jiwaka) – Thank you Mr Speaker.

I would like to debate on the statement by the Minister for Police.

I thank the Minister for taking stock of chronic crime situation in the Police Department and what he has presented, I think we have all heard every word that has come out of every Member that there is an admission that there is law and order problem in this country.
In this Ninth Parliament, we are just going into the eighth month but with the Prime Minister putting his foot down, I believe we are heading in the right direction.

And first is the allocation of districts grants to the 89 Members of Parliament and secondly is the ECP program.
So many suggestions have been made but I really it requires holistic approach if we, the leaders through what we have experienced and heard from the media and in Parliament, I am sure we are all looking at ways on best we can address our problems.

So I would like to participate here by firstly saying that the law and order problem is an issue here.

Papua New Guinea is a cultural society where we all depend on each other and as we all know 85 per cent our people are based in the rural areas.
So when we talk about crime or tribal fights, it is most by 85 per cent of our people and with the DSIP funding of K10 million direct to us as Members, I believe we cannot change the perspective of our communities overnight but if we can take one step at a time, we can slowly move into sensitive areas where crime is common and address them.
Whether it be youths, drug related, women or whatever 62 situation, we as leaders know where the hot spots are so with the allocation of 3 per cent of our DSIP, I think there is enough money to sustain or have balance in the communities by way of employing people who are trouble makers.
Apart from other things that the Members have alluded to, there is no other way that we can tackle our law and order problem because there are so many facets of and I believe one way we can control the majority of the people in the rural areas is to slowly move into the hot spots.

Another contributing factor is alcohol.

I don’t have a statistics to prove but I know that alcohol contributes to a lot of problems to crime in Papua New Guinea.
Mr Speaker, so in this Parliament, I would suggest that the National Government should take stock and control the issuance of licenses for liquor outlets and also cramp down on alcohol related crimes because it is a major contributor to the law and order problems.

Many times we allow these things to go on and then we try to put money into the Police Department to fight the alcohol related problems.

It is like we are going around in a cycle.


I think we need to put a stop, sacrifice or forgo some areas if it means our freedom or sovereign because if we do not take this stand, who will do it.

I believe we are taking a step in the right direction and we can move one step at a time.

41/05 Another thing I wish to contribute here on the Floor of Parliament is that in the 70s, and those times when we went to school there was discipline.
They had religious instructions introduced in schools and students were taking it in their classes and there was discipline in those young ages.

These are formative years where children grow up to learn the good and the bad.

So, as I said, we have to take a holistic approach to address the law and order problem by reviewing or going back to our education curriculum that we are trying or introducing into our schools.
Discipline has to start from the home and schools and until then we cannot address this whole thing because while everybody is an old dog, we can’t teach them new tricks.

We can talk about band aid solutions here but all these money can come but we cannot solve it.

We now have the Disciplines Forces becoming undisciplined.

I see a lot of policemen driving around with beers at the side of their cars and that is very, very scary.

Do we have to run to them for protection or?


I don’t know how we can end this one but discipline has to be the first thing we have to handle in the short term by way of administration or by way of law to 63 reprimand the law breakers.

And discipline people who step out of line to perform their duties with alcohol and al these.

We need to have the command and control put their foot down and give them the sack.
Only then can we get the message across to the Disciplined Forces to get themselves disciplined.

If we let them go we will not sort out this problem because everybody will be running around with no discipline.

So, I would like to say thank you to all the leaders who have contributed.

This is a serious issue and it is high time we take some real steps to address the law and order problem because the economy is growing.
When the economy grows people will be coming and will be coupled with so many social problems and if our country is not in a good situation we can’t go anywhere.

We are only seven million people while other countries have many millions more but there is discipline there.

I am amazed to see how we can’t control such a small number as seven million.
Out of the seven million 85 per cent live in the rural areas and most of those in the cities are only 15 per cent and out of that 15, 12 or 13 per cent is employed in the formal sector so that means the hooligans running around causing problems comprise less than one per cent.

They are not the majority.

We should put our foot down as leaders and if we have to put them away in some isolated places we have to do it so that we can send the message loud and clear.
Mr PETER O’NEILL (Ialibu-Pangia – Prime Minister) – Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to debate on this very important issue of the state of law and order in our country.

I also commend the Minister for this paper.

I think for the first time a Minister has come to Parliament with a very comprehensive statement on what is happening in the Police Force and the challenges that we have in the Constabulary.

Mr Speaker, we all know that this problem has been around for some time.
And we all know the problems, the symptoms and everything has been analysed back and forth and it doesn’t matter how many Police Ministers have come and gone.

We’ve gone through the whole motion of trying to fix the police issue.

64 For any country or government that is in charge of a country, the aim is to try and provide better health care for the citizens, better education for their children, and shelter for their citizens and of course, provide decent security for their citizens.
42/05 We have failed in every aspect of it because of our inability to adequately provide those services to our people.

We cannot say that we are fine and that we can take care of ourselves by brushing these issues to the aside and not admitting to our weaknesses.

Therefore, the challenge is out there, especially, at the back of an ever increasing population.
When you have close to 50 per cent of the population less than under the age of 25 years, and some of them are not educated up to the educational levels that we would want them to achieve.

Therefore, you will have a serious problem where citizens will be frustrated because they are not able to convert their energies into a sustainable way of improving their living standards.

Mr Speaker, this Paper clearly highlights some of the issues that we need to address as a Government over the next few years.
There are a number of issues that I would like to talk concerning the Police, discipline, skills and training, and the welfare of our policemen and women.

When there is no police recruitment for at least more than 10 years then that is a serious concern for any Government and society you will have an aging Police Force.

Some of our policemen and women are well beyond their retirement age.

This is because we cannot find a replacement to replace them.
They have served the country well and we are trying to push any Papua New Guinean out of a job because we have got enough problems with unemployment already.

Nevertheless, we have to admit that we have an aging Police Force.

We have only just started the new recruitment drive and re-establishment of the Bomana Police College in 2011.

The first 240 police graduates have already graduated and I believe this year another 480 will graduate.
Next year, we are trying to increase that number up to a thousand and our aim is to pass out about 10 000 policemen and women before we go for the General Elections in 2017.

That is our target and hopefully, over the next 4 to 5 years, we will increase the current number of police personnel from just under 6 000 to close to over 10 000 in that time.

Therefore, 65 I believe that we are on the right track.

We are increasing the capacity at the training college to train constables.
However, we still lack skills regarding procedures and documentation of arrests, investigation, prosecution and, et cetera.

All these skills really need to be built upon and this is where we are asking our development partners like Australia to come in and help.

The issue of ECP has been around for awhile and I do not know if our message is not clear or that, some people are not getting it the way they should get it.

It is not because the PNG Government does not want the ECP to come in.
It is the reluctance of Australia to send their people up here.

We have said that Australia can send them up here tomorrow and we will find them a place for them to operate, but unfortunately, the Australians are saying know because they need a level of protection that some of us find a bit offensive.

If we are going to give that level of protection to certain people, then we have to give it other as well who are going to come in and serve us in other capacities.
At the moment, I believe that there is a working arrangement where we are trying to overcome that problem.

Again, there is disappointment with our development partners.

Particularly regarding AusAid they are giving us people who are coming in to take up senior roles in the police hierarchy and advisory work.

We can continue to engage these people but really it is the face of the Police Force that we want to improve on the ground on a face to face and frontline operation with our people.
That is where we are targeting and see if whether we can increase the numbers while we are building up our own capacity we are bringing in people to fill in the gaps that we are facing.

43/05 Our idea is to try and put at least two policemen into every district in the country and 50 to 100 officers in the three major cities, Port Moresby, Lae and Mount Hagen so that they have manpower to assist the other regions or districts facing law and order issues.
As the Enga Governor said earlier, he has invested a lot of money in the training of policemen and we did the same for Southern Highlands when Anderson Agiru was the Governor .

We trained a lot of policemen and when they returned although they were new in the Force they were already blemished in character because of the influence of the older generation, therefore, the entire exercise was a waste.
When you have a few police officers behaving like 66 that, than it doesn’t matter if you train a thousand because it won’t because they will fit into a culture that is already in existence.

So there has to be a circuit breaker somewhere, meaning when we train 1000 officers next year, we will deploy ten to every district under the supervision of two senior expatriates officers.
Some of the Members have seen the sample of a camp constructed by Red Sea, that is an interesting concept where they are in a confined barracks and in a controlled environment where their behavior is monitored, so they don’t mix around with the community and compromise their duty as policemen.

These are some issues that the Minister and his team have looked at and I commend him for those initiatives.

I’m sure over the next two to three years we will see some improvements.
Some officers may say they have been displaced, but its not about displacing our officers or protecting the jobs for Papua New Guinean’s, the whole idea is to improve delivery of service, capacity and skills so that they can perform better in the roles that they undertake.

The second issue is regarding discipline; it’s all about pride.

Some have lost the pride of being a policeman.

Before independence, policemen were lowly paid but the pride of wearing that uniform reflected in their self-discipline.
If you go to Fiji and other smaller Pacific island states, they don’t have much resources but a lone police officer ensures that he maintains the station because of the pride he has pride in the job.

I agree with the Governor for NCD, it doesn’t matter how much money we invest, it won’t help if we don’t change our attitude towards the job.

We have to get discipline back as a condition of employment in the Police Force and across the Public Service.
It must be a sackable offence, when you are an employee of the State and you misbehave you must be sacked on the spot, never to be employed again.

If you know that you are going to be punished like that you will start behaving.

Right now there a lot of processes and consultations taking place, by the time you are trying to discipline a person you give up along the way because it is exhausting.

We need to bring back that reform that the Minister for Public Service was talking about.
Put discipline as a condition of employment and tie it into their welfare and retirement packages 67 they can enjoy after serving the country.

The issues of housing and pension and health benefits, we must work innovatively to ensure if a public servant misbehaves those benefits must be removed from him to keep him in line.

Then he will start to discipline himself and worry about his family.

44/05 He has to worry about how he will survive if he leaves the Police Force.
So I think those administrative arrangement should be worked on to try and improve.

These are very simple things but will make a huge difference.

We are now advertising to repair some of the Police Stations in NCD.

We will be doing that I respective cities.

It will cost K5-K6 million to renovate the entire city police stations.

Painting and cleaning it makes a clean environment where one feels the urge of going to work every day.
People should work in a clean hygiene environment so these are the disciplines that we need to retain.

Mr Speaker, we are on the right track.

The issue of the policemen and women not doing their job well, and one classic example was, when I went to Solomon Islands last week, I saw reports on some of our Policemen and women and Defence Force personnel who were serving there.

People there could not speak highly enough of our people.

About 300 people went to work in Solomon Islands.


They performed their job with the highest degree of behavior, discipline and pride.

If they can behave that way, why can’t they do it back at home.

Mr Speaker, everybody I spoke to including the European Union, Australian and the New Zealand Defence and Police personnel could not speak highly of our people.

But by the time they return to PNG they are back to their old working culture again.
What I am trying to say is that we can change the attitude of our people because these people can serve our community better.

Our Police and Defense Force personnel performed very well at Ramsy so they have the ability to restore pride and dignity back into the Police Force.

The issue on the District Administrator is also a very good one because some of us have been speaking about this for a long time.
Today, I want to inform Parliament that the Cabinet has approved the District Authority Bill and it will be introduced to Parliament.

That Bill is that first step towards managing public servants by the District Administrator.

It is not the responsibility of the politician to manage the public servants.

It is the responsibility of the District 68 Administrator and he will report directly to the District Authority of which a Member of Parliament is to be the Chairman.
This Bill is not only for the police personnel but rather for every public servants working in the districts whether he is a teacher, a nurse or a doctor.

You will be under the direct supervision of the District Administrator and he is able to fire you as well.

That means, when he fires you, you are completely off the payroll at that particular day.

So if you do not turn up for work, do not expect to be paid.

For instance, there is a teacher in one of my remote community schools in Inaiyabu in Ialibu.
He thinks that he is only responsible to the Secretary of Education, and he still thinks that Peter Baki is still there.

So he does not care about anybody whether you are a Member of Parliament or not.

He gets paid for doing nothing.

He does not even turn up for work.

And these are the kind of people who should be disciplined.

Mr Speaker, the parents have been complaining and demands that he be put off the payroll.
However, once he knows that he is off the payroll, he will come back crying to be restored back on the payroll.

I think this is the kind of discipline that will start improving the services we are encouraging out there.

We will also be introducing some Bill on the issue of drug and alcohol abuses because they contribute to lawlessness in the communities.

Drug and alcohol abuse is the number one contributor to a person’s behavior and problems in the city.
We must now legislate to ensure that we can management these issues.

Mr Speaker, you are a free human being and you can consume anything you want, but do not do it at the expensive of everybody else but rather in a responsible manner.

In terms of alcohol issues, we must now control the trading hours, manufacturing and distribution.

There are one too many fruit juice and our people are now brewing highly intoxicated drinks.

45/05 Motion – That the question be now put – agreed to.
Motion – That the Parliament take note of the paper – agreed to.

69 ADJOURNMENT Motion (by Mr Mao Zeming ) agreed to – That the Parliament do now adjourn.

The Parliament adjourned at 4.25 p.m.. 70