Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697805000277.pdf (Malaysia)
30 Your Local Voice Daily Express Sunday, September 7, 2014 Daily Express Sunday, September 7, 2014 Special Report Your Local Voice 7 Language, religion and education the sticky issues Mary Chin and James Sarda DE: SSome oof tthe CCommonwealth countries hhave mmade mmany aamend- ments tto ttheir rrespective cconstitu- tions, iin oone AAfrican ccase uup tto 660 ttimes tto reflect tthe cchanging ssituation ssince iinde- pendence.
TTo tthe bbest oof yyour kknowledge, how mmany ttimes hhas tthe MMalaysian Constitution bbeen aamended aand wwhat hhave been ssome oof tthe mmost ssignificant oones?

Pandikar: I am not familiar because change of constitution can happen.

If it is very fundamental then you need two- third majority.

If its is not, just a simple majority.

Not sure, got to check.

DE: WWhat tthe pprovisions iin tthe Malaysian CConstitution yyou tthink nneed aa review ggiven ttoday’s ssituation?
Pandikar: Again, I will have to check.

When you talk about fundamental rights, I think Article 53 about the rights of the Bumiputeras, the issue that is heavily debated now is whether that particular provision ought to be amended because we said it is not democratic enough.
But of course there are people who are saying why not because you must remem- ber when our forefathers drafted the Constitution, the Constitution actually was already based on democracy then because those days when you talked about democracy must involve separa- tion of powers.

You know, the Judiciary must be the independent Legislature and the Executive.

That we have.

from It was also line with our in Constitution that we specifically spell out what are the rights of particular groups.
That Islam is the official religion of the country but some other races can practise their own religion freely and in harmony.

That one is spelt out but what this new school of thought is saying is that when you talk about democracy, it is not only separation of powers, they emphasise on human rights.

Human rights meaning now with this also heavily debated issue that you are free to choose your partner.

Man and man can get married, woman and woman can get married.
This is where the the Constitution of any given country when originally drafted, it must be based on the value system of that society, must be based on the religion of the society.

is because sticky issue I think when our Constitution was drafted, it took into consideration all those.

Now, in Islam, it’s a non-issue to debate whether you have the rights of man and man can get married, woman and woman can get married.

That is a non-issue because it is not possible in Islam, it is haram.
And that one is of course put (Criminal Procedure Code).

in our CPC So there must be an understanding if assuming the democracy of the West, the so-called matured democracy of the West, were to be followed strictly in a given country which has its own idiosyncrasies, it will not work.

That particular democra- cy will not grow, it will not thrive.

It will not grow richly and it’s an example of recent times when the West tried to impose democracy in areas like Iraq, now in Syria.

DE: IIt ddidn’t wwork.


Pandikar: I think the West must also realise that democracy is only a means to administer but it must not apply across the board.

What is applicable for instance in America or England, it must not be adapted in total in some other places.

I think this must be the one that ought to be understood by the leaders and by the people but the leaders must understand it first.
Because there would be confusion, for instance, if I were to take Anwar as an example and some PKR leaders who are Muslims.
At one time when Nurul Izzah (Anwar’s daughter) was interviewed in one Majlis and the issue at that time was if the Muslim can convert somebody who is not Islam into Islam and why not other THE work of parliament does not end with the passing of legislation and many Commonwealth parliaments have introduced reforms to ensure that the institution stays relevant to the chang- ing demands of an increasingly savvy electorate.
Speaker Tan Sri Pandikar Amin shares with Special Writer Mary Chin and Chief Editor James Sarda some of the changes he would like to see in the Malaysian parliament such as having his decisions questioned and for spe- cial time to be set aside for the Prime Minister to answer questions directly on any issue in the final of a four-part series.

religion also cannot convert a Muslim guy to a particular religion.

Her answer then was, “Why not?” You know because in democracy, you are free.
In our Constitution, you are free to choose your religion.

In that particular situation, if those people, particularly the youngsters and those who are not reli- gious savvy, will not understand because they are being confused by Muslim lead- ers who make statements like that.

DE: TThey wwill bbe sseen aas ccondoning iit, you mmean?

Pandikar: Exactly.

That’s where the division will start.

I think that is the dan- ger that we are facing now in Malaysia.
To me, back to your original question, of course there are certain provisions or arti- cles in the Constitution that ought to be amended but before that is done, it must be really studied first what would it bring about in terms of consequences.

DE: CCan yyou bbe sspecific?

Pandikar: Consequences like what happened to ISA (Internal Security Act).

When we abolished ISA.

Singapore is still having it and what happens is a fact.

The moment it was abolished, those people who were in jail were released.
If I am not mistaken at that time, the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs told me 2,600.

And I asked him is that why we are always having shooting incidents and he said ‘ y e s ’.

You must remember also, when human rights lawyers make statements, they said it must be a practice, a must in law that due process must be followed.

Meaning, if you don’t have any evi- dence against somebody you suspect has committed a crime, then you must not detain that person.
But what happen if you know for a fact that he has committed the crime but you don’t have any wit- ness, evidence in order for the person to be prosecuted.

There is a loophole in the law.

This was what the ISA was trying to address.

There are also human rights peo- ple who said that, human rights or things like this, it is better to let go so many criminals than to convict or to detain one innocent person.

To me, I don’t think our society is matured enough.
You give this to them, and for instance even in South Africa, they don’t have any jury system.

It must be understood by leaders whether they are in the Government, all those NGOs, all those in the Opposition.

I think we ought to think of the interests of the nation first, above the interests of groups of people, individuals or political parties for that matter.

Otherwise we will be in trouble.

DE: SSome hhave aa vvery ssimplistic vview oof things.

Pandikar: It is not easy stuff.


DE: SSo, wwhat aare ssome oof tthe tthings that mmay nneed aa rreview ffrom yyour ppoint oof view?

RRecently tthere wwas rrenewed ddebate The Malaysian Parliament in session.

 So I used that interpre- tation whereby whatever the Malaysian Government does now, somehow it must be connected with Islam.

So I said from there, my interpretation is, where Parliament is concerned, this is an Islamic country.
– Pandikar giving his opinion on the debate on wwhether MMalaysia iis aan IIslamic oor ssecu- lar SState.

Pandikar: Yes, they are only the sticky points – language, religion and educa- tion.

When you talk about language, then of course education will go in there.
Those who believe that unity should be from a system of one language and start quoting Indonesia, Singapore and those who are defending the system now, the vernacular school system, are saying well, you can’t touch that because that is already enshrined in the Constitution.

examples like The moment they say that, then those people who are protecting this Article 53, they will say, well, the rights of the Bumiputera, the rights of a particular group of people also are already enshrined in the Constitution.
Why do you touch on that?

That’s the reason I said all leaders must understand what they are talking about before they make any statement.

Actually the sticky issues are within these three because of human rights.
Otherwise, I don’t see anything that ought to be changed there apart from the claim of Sabahans that the 20 Points has not been implemented, Sabah for Sabahans and that also ought to be really looked into because some are saying that not necessarily that we want to be independent or we want to withdraw from Malaysia.

What we are requesting is only to revisit or for that matter, we must have a second, like a marriage, we must have a second vow, you know.
Deep in me, there must be maturity from all these people who are in power, these people are concerned about this.

If you have an open discussion, of course, the discussion must be aimed at uniting the people, make people aware of what is happening and what not.

But most of the things done now and invariably is only attended by one group.
I read the advertisement in the press two, three days ago, I think, that you want to have a forum, talk here at the Dewan Hakka…Speakers like Tan Sri Sipaun and Dr Jeffrey Kitingan.

When you discuss and one group only goes, then of course the perception is negative.

DE: TThey oonly wwant tto ppromote ttheir view.

Pandikar: Exactly.

It must be across the board.

You don’t talk about it because of that.


I think people like academicians must start talking about it before it is debated and recently also here become an issue when Masidi talked about Malay.

DE: RRumpun MMelayu ((Malay sstock).

Pandikar: Depends on how you look at it because I remember when I was in Manila years ago and when I went to see Imelda Marcos in her house.

We spent four hours talking and she said, “Mr Speaker, I tell you, I am proud (she said) to be a Malay.
” DE: SShe ssupposedly aalso wwas pproud oof her SSpanish aancestry.

Pandikar: According to her, Malay stock within this region.

Meaning, you must look at the definition of Malay also from two views – from the macro point of view and micro point of view.
Otherwise, when Masidi made the statement and all the people from Facebook, when I read their statements, of course the people who were ignorant about it said, “How can the Dusun or Kadazan be a Malay?” DE: BBut aan aaside tto ttheir aargument wwas that iif yyou ssay II aam MMalay, tthen wwhy ccan’t I ccall mmyself aa ‘‘Christian MMalay?’ Pandikar: Our community is not matured enough to make a decision on certain things that they don’t really understand.

We have got to take it step by step.


As time goes by, then of course, the elderly people will die, and those youngsters now that are thinking differently for the sake of just trying something new, they will become matured.

Maybe two or three generations from now.

The youths now will become, maybe they are already, when they become older, then they will think, start differently.

When we were children also like that.

To me, maybe another 25 years, 50 years.


So in other words, we are talking about Malaysia 100 years, then you will have a society that will be able to articulate and accept things.

When I look at what is hap- pening now, the only thing that comes across in my head is that I pity the leaders that are trying their utmost best because to me this is a crossroad.

This is a begin- ning, if (Prime Minister Datuk Seri) Najib were to make a transformation in his Administration.
This is a beginning of maybe one or 2,000 steps in front towards democracy.

I don’t know what kind of democracy that would be.

Definitely it would not be a democracy like what is happening in the West because of religion, culture and what not.

Maybe some of your culture you can throw away but you cannot throw away religion and that is a very sticky issue.

But when you look at it also, at our east kind of traditions, even China now is modernising but still they keep to their traditions.
Japan also is very advanced, still they keep to their traditions.

So even if Malaysia were to become modern that would be a modernity in the Malaysia kind of mould.

It cannot be like an American democracy or British democracy or whatever.

DE: SStraightforward aalso ccannot.

Pandikar: Cannot.
Pandikar: Cannot.

DE: BBut rrecently wwhen yyou sspoke iin parliament oon wwhether MMalaysia iis aa ssecu- lar oor aan IIslamic SState aand mmentioned tthe latter, ssome ssaid hhow ccome TTan SSri ssaid sso because TTunku ((first PPremier), TTun RRazak, Hussein OOnn, eetc, aall vviewed MMalaysia aas secular bbut wwith IIslam aas oofficial rreligion.

Hence, nnot aan IIslamic sstate bbut aa MMuslim country.

BBut TTan SSri hhas aa ddifferent vview.

Pandikar: You see what happened was.


The Minister of Religion (Datuk Jamil Khir) when he was answering questions in the Dewan Rakyat and I think he made a statement outside.

He specifically said that Malaysia is not a secular State.

Malaysia is a Muslim coun- K Y M C try.

He was walloped by those who said Malaysia is a secular State.

They wanted to refer him to the Privileges Committee that he made a wrong statement.

They gave reasons.
They gave reasons.

They said these are the rea- sons – judgements from cases before concerning God.

I read the answer from the Minister.

I read all those reasons given by those peo- ple accusing him of lying.

I looked up the dictionary what is the meaning of secular.

In countries like Egypt, I think, if I am not mistaken, like Pakistan, there are few countries which specifically stated in their Constitution that this particular country is secular, that kind of thing.
So meaning you got to put in the Constitution.

But in Malaysia, it did not say specifically that Malaysia is a Muslim country.

What the Constitution says is that the official religion of Malaysia is Islam.

When I read the definition, secular means in the Oxford dictionary that it is nothing, it is completely separated, the State Administration and Religion.

Whereas in our Constitution it is not a complete sep- aration of Religion and Administration.
There is somehow a link in the connec- tion, so I took that view because I said, ‘Look, when you look at what we are doing now, for instance, you go to a func- tion, then you recite the doa, every reli- gion accepts it.

Not like in Indonesia when you have a Majlis, the Pengacara will say, ‘Kita baca doa sekarang mengikut agama masing-masing,’.

So I used that interpretation whereby whatev- er the Malaysian Government does now, somehow it must be connected with Islam.
So I said from there, my interpreta- tion is, where Parliament is concerned, this is an Islamic country.

But I said my opinion cannot be used outside because it is not my authority.

I am not a judge.

Whereas, there is now a standing judgement which says that.

They accepted that as far as Parliament is concerned.

Even that also I advised them.

I said, “Those who are still in doubt, it is open for you to go to court and ask for a declaration.

Now they can because there are so many prominent lawyers.
Once and for all, find out what this is all about.

Nobody is picking it up, but they debate on it.

Why can’t we be matured enough to do that?

DE: EEach ttime tthere iis ddebate, tthere will bbe aa ccounter aargument.

Pandikar: Yes, so when I say that, then they have to accept it.

I said, “Well as far as this Parliament is concerned, my defin- ition is Malaysia somehow is not a secular State but it is not also in the Constitution.
Therefore, this Minister should not be referred to that Committee within Parliament.

DE: VVery ssmart ((laughter).

WWhat pparts of tthe CConstitution aare nnot cclearly defined?

II tthink yyou hhave ttalked aabout this aand rresulted iin tthis ddispute ttoday.

Do yyou tthink ffor tthat mmatter tthe aan PParliament nneeds Malaysian Ombudsman?

Pandikar: You look at other countries like in England.

For sure, I know that there is another separate body they call ombudsman to do check and balance.
In Malaysia, we don’t have that.

What we have are committees DE: LLike PParliamentary AAction Committee aand ssuch ooversight bbodies.

Pandikar: But that one is a system also when you look at some other countries like even smaller ones like Papua New Guinea they have so many committees.

The objectives of committees actually are to scrutinise, to debate when an issue comes to Parliament.

If it is a raw issue, the committee must debate it first.
The members are from political parties from the Government and the Opposition.

Then when they reach their conclusion, the committee will report to Parliament.

That is the whole House.

In Malaysia, we have only thus far five (committees).
See PPage 99 K Y M C RACE 1 RACE 2 RACE 3 RACE 4 RACE 5 RACE 6 RACE 7 RACE 8 RACE 9 BRIGHT EYES ALPHA JUMBO JET CRYSTAL MYTH MANIS MANIS DIABLO CRYSTAL MYTH ADA SANA MANIS MANIS MANIS MANIS CRYSTAL MYTH RAINBOW ROCK RED SPIDER CRYSTAL PRINCESS CRYSTAL TOWN RED SPIDER CRYSTAL TOWN KUDAT STAR CRYSTAL PRINCESS RED SPIDER PUTERI KAYANGAN PATIKANG PRINCESS SEKETARIAT KIMANIS BEAUTY PATIKANG PRINCESS MONEY BOY EVER QUEEN SEKERTARIAT PATIKANG PRINCESS GADIS AYU CRYSTAL MYTH ADA SANA MANIS MANIS CRYSTAL MYTH MANIS MANIS HAPPY GIRL ADA SANA CRYSTAL MYTH ROCKET RED SPIDER CRSYTAL TOWN PUTERI KAYANGAN RED SPIDER ALL IS WELL CRYSTAL PRINCESS CRYSTAL TOWN RED SPIDER CRYSTAL CITY KIMANIS BEAUTY PATIKANG PRINCESS SEKETARIAT PATIKANG PRINCESS KIMANIS BEAUTY MONEY BOY ROCKET MAN KIMANIS BEAUTY PRETTY LADY HEAD START KRISTAL TOP GUN HEAD START HAPPY PEGALAN AYUMAS KRISTAL HEAD START INAI CRSTAL KINABALI BRILIANT CHASER BRILIANT CHAMP CRYSTAL KINABALU EBLOUISSANTE NIJINSKI BRILLIANT CHASER CRYSTAL KINABAU YOUNG STAR LEMBUYUK BEAUTY NIGATA OCEAN PRINCESS LEMBUYUK BEAUTY HOWBADDOYOUWANTIT LEMBUYUK BEAUTY CRYSTAL KING MEI MEI NIGATA Crystal Kinabalu for Merdeka Cup TAMBALANG: Crystal Kinabalu is the top pick to capture the Merdeka Cup this Sunday.
The fourteen acceptors lined up for this Class III & IV field over 1800 meter will test endurance in this grueling race.

It’s open field with anyone can come up tops as there were no records of their perfor- mance over the dis- tance.

Crystal Kinabalu is reported to have train- ing especially for this cup.

Looking fit and in form Crystal good Kinabalu should start early favorite.

Race 9 Lembuyuk Beauty confidence to win Class 7 Div 1 and trained very well.

Good luck and happy racing to all punters.

3.


HAPPY GIRL 4.

MANIS MANIS III 5.

DIABLO RACE 1 1.05PM CL.

7 DIV4 1000 METERS MONDIKOT HANDICAP TRI-FORECAST D0 1.

SUAREZ 00402 2.

LEEGO QUEEN D0 P02 003 20030 6.

ROCKET VI 000 7.

NA O MAY 00020 8.

ADA SANA 000 P P4 P P0 9.

MAJOR 10.

RAINBOW ROCK 11.

CRYSTAL MYTH 12.

GOOD RESPONSE 13.

MY SWEET 54.0 (6) 54.0 (5) 54.0 (7) 53.0 (3) 53.0 (2) 52.0 (8) 51.0 (9) 51.0 (11) 51.0 (10) 51.0 (13) 51.0 (4) 51.0 (12) 51.0 (14) RACE 2 1.35PM CL.
V 1000 METERS MANUKAN HANDICAP TRI-FORECAST 03232 1.

ALL IS WELL D 243 D0 D0 P24 P0 P P P 61.0 (8) 2.

PUTERI KAYANGAN 57.0 (7) 57.0 (10) 3.

PANGAZOU 54.0 (11) 4.

KUDAT STAR 5.

CRYSTAL TOWN 54.0 (5) 6.

CRYSTAL PRINCESS II 52.0 (4) 51.0 (6) 7.

RED SPIDER 8.

CRYSTAL CITY II 51.0 (9) 9.

BEAUTIFUL SCARLET 51.0 (2) 51.0 (3) 10.

CRYSTAL PRINCE RACE 3 2.05 PM CL.

7 DIV2 1000 METERS MELINSUNG HANDICAP TRI-FORECAST 1.

KIMANIS BEAUTY II 61.0 (2) D22 2.

SINGGAHMATA STAR 57.0 (10) D 3.


PUTERI SEJATI II D 57.0 (7) 4.

PATIKANG PRINCESS 57.0 (9) D 56.0 (11) 43022 5.

EVER QUEEN 52.0 (4) 003 51.0 (5) P30 51.0 (8) P 51.0 (6) P 51.0 (3) P 6.

SEKETARIAT 7.

MONEY BOY 8.

GADIS AYU 9.

PRETTY LADY II 10.

ROCKET MAN RACE 4 2.35 PM CL.7 DIV4 1100METERS MONSOPIAD HANDICAP FOUR-FORECAST D0 1.

SUAREZ 57.0 (3) 3.

HAPPY GIRL 30002 2.

LEEGO QUEEN D0 00023 4.

ADA SANA 5.

MAJOR 003 020 6.

NA O MAY 00030 7.

ROCKET VI P00 030 P P4 P P0 8.

MANIS MANIS III 9.


DIABLO 10.

RAINBOW ROCK 11.

CRYSTAL MYTH 12.

GOOD RESPONSE 13.

MY SWEET 55.0 (8) 54.0 (11) 54.0 (6) 53.0 (9) 53.0 (10) 52.0 (13) 51.0 (5) 51.0 (4) 51.0 (12) 51.0 (7) 51.0 (14) 51.0 (2) 57.0 (15) 111322 3.

KRISTAL 56.0 (13) 41211 4.

TOP GUN 54.0 (9) 03021 5.

ALL THE WAY 53.0 (7) 6.

ROSE MAGIC 1014 52.0 (5) 0 7.

KANEGURA 51.0 (2) 02021 8.

AYUMAS 03314 9.

51.0 (14) 00004 10.

DESTINATION GOLD 49.0 (10) 49.0 (8) 00400 11.


MINI BLOOM 49.0 (11) 02304 12.

PARAGON ANGEL 49.0 (6) 43200 13.

RUBY INAI RACE 5 3.05 PM CL.

V 1100 METERS MONGOGIS HANDICAP FOUR-FORECAST 1.

KUDAT STAR D2 59.0 (5) 2.

PUTERI KAYANGAN 57.0 (7) D 3.

CRYSTAL TOWN D0 54.0 (2) 53.0 (3) 4.

PANGAZOU 200 5.

CRYSTAL PRINCESS II 52.0 (4) P03 51.0 (8) 30240 6.

ALL IS WELL 51.0 (9) 7.

RED SPIDER P0 8.

CRYSTAL CITY II P 51.0 (10) 9.

BEAUTIFUL SCARLET 51.0 (11) P 51.0 (6) 10.

CRYSTAL PRINCE P RACE 6 3.35 PM CL.


7 DIV2 1100METERS MALAMPAIHANDICAP FOUR-FORECAST 1.

KIMANIS BEAUTY II 61.0 (6) D22 2.

SINGGAHMATA STAR 57.0 (4) D 3.

PUTERI SEJATI II D 57.0 (3) 4.

PATIKANG PRINCESS 57.0 (9) D 54.0 (5) 5.

EVER QUEEN 2443 53.0 (2) 6.

SEKETARIAT 0302 52.0 (7) 7.

MONEY BOY P03 51.0 (8) 8.

GADIS AYU P 51.0 (11) 9.

PRETTY LADY II P 51.0 (10) 10.

ROCKET MAN P THOROUGHBRED CUP RACE RACE 7 4.150 PM 1800 METERS FOUR-FORECAST 11114 1.

HEAD START 11110 2.
HEAD START 11110 2.

HAPPY PEGALAN 69.0 (4) 58.0 (12) MERDEKA CUP FOUR FORECAST POOL B/F RM8,034.00 RACE 8 4.45 PM FOR CLASS III & IV DIS- TANCE: 1800 METERS FOUR-FORECAST 54.0 (6) 1 1.

BRILLIANT CHAMP 54.0 (15) 2.

EBLOUISSANTE 54.0 (2) 3.

BUNGA API III 51.0 (13) 4.

HONEY GIRL II 51.0 (5) 5.

NIJINSKI III 6.

51.0 (12) 7.

KINABALU CRYSTAL II 51.0 (8) 51.0 (11) 8.

KING MAKER 51.0 (14) 9.

TOMBEEVO 51.0 (10) 10.

ROYAL EMPRESS 49.0 (9) 11.

RATU SARI 49.0 (7) 12.

YOUNG STAR 49.0 (4) 13.


CRYSTAL WORLD 14.

BRILLIANT CHASER 49.0 (3) ICE BREAKER 3 0 RACE 9 5.15 PM PIALA BAGI KELAS 7 DIV1 SEJAUH 1800 METERS FOUR-FORECAST 54.0 (9) 1.

OCEAN PRINCESS 2.

LEMBUYUK BEAUTY 51.0 (8) 51.0 (3) 3.

RUSSIAN BALLET 51.0 (6) 4.

SILVER DO 51.0 (2) 5.

NIGATA 51.0 (7) 6.

BATTLE KING III 51.0 (11) 7.

CRYSTAL KING III 8.

MEI MEI II 51.0 (4) 9.

HOWBADDOYOUWANTIT 51.0 (5) 51.0 (10) 10.

SUPER EASY