Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697744150763.pdf (Guyana)
-�, 715 ·'Members Present.

LEGISLATIVE •• LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ern Berbice) .

COUNCIL.

Closer Association.

(East­ The Hon.

Dr. G. M. -Gonsalves 716 The Hon.

Dr. C. Jagan (Cen"tral .

FRIDAY, 12TH MARCH, 1948.

Demerara) .

The Hon.

W. 0.

R. Kendall (New Amsterdam).

The Council met at 2 p.m., His the Governor, O.B.E., Sir Charles M.C., Presi­ K.C.M.G., Excellency Woolley, ient, in the Chair.

The Hon.

C. A. McDoom (Nominated).

The Hon.

A. T. Peters (Western Berbice).

PRESENT.

The Hon.
PRESENT.

The Hon.

W. A. Phang (North West­ ern District).

The President, His Excellency Governor, Si.r Charles K.C.M.G., the Woolley, Campbell M.C.

O.B.E., The Clerk read prayers.

The Hon.

G. H. 8mel1ie (Nominated).

Secretary, Mr.

The Hon.

the Colonial .. (actingj D. J. Parkinson held on Thursday, printed ,I.

· The Hon.

the Attorney-General, and confirmed.

Ill. M. Duke.

(acting).


Mr. and circulated, 11th March, 1948, as were taken as read Minutes of the meeting of the Council ORDER OF THE D.'\ Y ' The Hon.

C. V. Wight, (Western Essequibo).

O.B.E., The Hon.

F. J. Seaford, C.B.E., (Nomi­ ated).

The Hon.

Dr. J.

B. Singh, O.B.E., ,(Demerara-Essequibo).

I The Hon.

Dr. J.

A. Nicholson, (George­ town North).

The Hon.

V. Roth (Nominated).

)L CLOSER ASSOCIATION COLONIES.

The Council resumed the debate on motion by Mr. Seaford this Council OF B.W.I.
the following acr.

:epts :- ''That, of the British on the Closer Asso­ West Indian Col­ Resolu­ tions 2 to 14 of the Resolutions passed at the Conference ciation onies, held at Montego Bay, Jamaica, in September, ment on Resolution lutions to consider federation the Standing mittee, proposed implications the report of Com­ Closer Association m Resolution 1947, but res"rves judg­ 1 of the said Reso­ the practical in the light of until it has had an oooortunity 6."

of The Hon.

T. T. Thompson (Nomi­ nated).


Mr. KENDALL: Sir, in rising to add The Hon.

W. J. Raatgever (Nomi­ nated).

nated).

The Hon.

G. A. C. Farnum (Nomi­ The Hon.

Capt.

J. P. Coghlan (Dem­ erara River).

The Hon.

D. P. Debidin (Eastern 'Demerara).

The Hon.

J. Fernandes (Georgetown Central).

____I_ ..._ _ ...

.

:.


--�� z:dtt ,�Pt," '.,;,..,, 1' ..!a.at....� permission, to this debate I would Your Excellency's my contribution like, with to remind some of my colleagues that any country that thinks more of its ease and comfort than of its freedom will sooner or later lose both.
Everywhere world today there is that urge towards freedom and independence, manner the British is extending government share in the government It is the system of administration which all subject fo;: races have been clam- and in like , which will give them a fuller Labour Government of their country.

to its Colonies a form of in the .. 717 Closer Assocation of 12 1948.

B.W.I.

Colonies.

718 MARCH, " generation they ot having British On the other entity.
It Members whether tliey ir, this ana other Colo/1- by the emblem of some Republic.

that British area.
I am wondering would like to .see the Union Jack torn from the flagstaffs 1es and rep1aced South American Guiana is would realise coun­ bounded on three sides by foreign are unknown to us, tries whose languages and that it would take another to overcome that disadvantage would not think so easily Guiana as a separate hand it must be borne in mmct that the their language and West Indian Colonies, to ours, and that forms are allied cultural for many years we have traded with them and received industry particular which we have spent hundreds ands of dollars.
try, and I am satished form of goverr,ment central that premium, and if Brnish Guiana from the West Indian isolates she will not receive those Colonies benefits.

of thous­ I refer to the rice indus­ equal benefits.

in this Colony on that if there is no herself There is a to maintain ,.

Before domg so I would like of the three local dailies With your permission, here that the is Sir, I will reag.
1�, of the speech made by Sir at the Montego Bay from the Daily Gleaner of September a portion Eustace Woolford Conference.

to say that it is suggested Pre�s opinion against I am satisfied the public the various by the Colonial ment suggested and disadvantages in those the advantages forms, the public would have had a better de­ opportunity c1s10n.

I now quote from the Daily Gleaner:- that is true that if the Press had given forms of govern­ of coming to a correct federation.
Although Office, and ouring for many years, and to fight political against a tendency against proved to be inevitable.
which history has federation is to battle I the fulfil­ is a step towards of the electorate by some form of self-government, and I of His Majesty's Some of the Members here have of an assur­ their seats because secured that ance given that they would advocate and privileges the rights would be increased representative think this timely gesture Government ment of those wishes and aspirations.
it will pave the think if this is accepted to have way in giving us an opportunity conferences for the a say in international of world peace and world furtherance of that prosperity.

form we would be placed in a position having to accept certain the Home Government say in them.

I will cite the air and naval bases in this Colony.
It is true we have nothing think it would have been better under a if the pe0pl,: different in each Colony had an opportunity decide in that particular Without a Government of from measures having a to instance.
to say about that measure but I form of government without It was very disappointing to listen to of British Guiana after reading to give the separate and communications coming which .prove that it is unwise Caribbeo/1 area self­ in view of(that I agree Guiana should join the other There of no by previous Members talking about the continental destiny despatches Office - to us through the Colonial despatches and inopportune units of the British government-and that British West Indian Colonies that in joining is a belief the West Indies we would receive but it was suggested benefit, speakers other forms of closer cal federatio that unless we have political there would be no safeguard of the various rency Unions that may be suggested from time to time.
to believe federation that they agreed with all the n. I am persuaded union except politi­ Customs Unions and Cur­ in federation.
a federation or guarantee of the attitude I am very susp1c10us interests of certain form of government progressive Colony and other parts of the Caribbean when tr.ey oppose a that would be of a nature to the people of this , concluded "Sir Eustace ing that public opinion as expressed had been against or even closer bv disclos­ in his Colony, by the three aaily or.E(ans, 'i I union to ;;crne extent."
• the idea of federation This also applies to the C'.,amber of interests • but I do not think that in Commerce and to the capitalist in this Colony, • their views they are expressing the wishe& of the people.

One Member sug­ destiny gested that in our continental we are on the threshold in British we have been hearing I am wondering but that is something of for a long time.

whether Guiana, of great development those individuals ·�-.. ..-..,__-� 719 Closer Association of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

B.W.I.
B.W.I.

Colonies.

720 ,,, who speak that way have faith in British (txuiana to the extent of developing, it5, They were presented In point we have the Case to the but I am yet to see of thi& Coiony getting industries.

reports.

Chamber of Commerce, the financiers gether and forming companies see the further development Guiana enhanced.

of this Colony within recent' main has been contributed capitalists.
to­ in order to of British year& in the by outside All the development I as regards em­ suggested we have been told in the past of State has to decide but in the new form be borne in mind that while it is the desire of many Members that local people should be given priority ployment that the Secretary on such employment.

of government Government that the decision Secretary Government.
opinion sidered progress, velopment 0111es which are able to give us the necessary my con­ that if this country is to after de­ wt must ally ourselves and if we are striving would not rest with the It is therefore I am persuaded of State but with the Central support.

to believe to Cc;l by His Majesty's Mr. RAATGEVER.

To c1 point of correction !

That is not correct.

said "in Mr. KENDALL: I pu1'posely the main.'


It that is ryo� so I am yet to be told tbe truth in a tangible I have h�re a pamphlet issued by the B.P.I.

on "Thoughts eration."

would like!

to read a passage from pa_ge 37 under "Caribbean reads as follows.

on West Indian Fed­ Sir, I With your permission, Industrial Plan."

It manner.
It manner.

"It mav be, too, that we Guianese an� located competition with similar in other countries in our interior, •resources of our n­ have in mind the development c­ of s or ondary industries j from the natural terior.

Whether we do so with the West Indian or other units of human we may as well make sure machinery, we are creating that the industries not in wasteful industries the Caribbean Indian Conference atli)ntion which have importance allo­ This orderlv potential.
industrial development be­ cation of industrial tween colony and colony does seem to and 1t would be onlv pru­ be essential.

dent for Bi·itish whether such industrial practicable ment."

area.

The first West in 1944 paid much to this point which is of vital allocation Govern­ Guiana to make sure without a central ta those colonies is in would I say that such an allocation We were told in the that a ce1·tain not be practicable.
Finance Committee man had left this Colony for a better job in Jamaica in connection cultivation.

with rice gentle­ 'x , >) ,, As regards the talk about continental countries I take it that Members are of the destiny, aware that the potentialities on our borders South American are the same as ours, and that their re­ than ours, so are more developed sources that reciprocal us.
On the other hand, if we are to im­ prove on our secondary tries we must have a guaranteed and that market can be found on the West Indian islands.

trade can in on way assist and minor indus­ market, that it One hon.

Member suggested is not right to bring West Indians here it is feared that they would take because away frcm the Colony all the money they received new.

We have had other colon­ nothing ists coming here and they hs.ve sent mcst of their earnings by way of wages.

That is .

oad.
That is .

oad.

abr on our borders will territories If we are to isolate It must also be borne in mind that we must take into account world affairs_.

that sooner or and I have a suspicion Government later the Venezuelan demand certain as theirs.

as suggested with military provide ourselves tion.

I am yet to be convinced odd thousand selves with sufficient as o separat1o area.
that 370 people can provide them­ _. our first duty must be to military protec­ entity in the Caribbean ourselves protection I am satisfied that if we agree to all without federation the other forms of federation political create industries with ours, and we in turn, in spite of our would not be able to make potentialities, the profits we have in mind.
It must also the other units would which would compete We must also bear in mind that the we speak of cannot great potentialities and if we are tu overnight, be developed -we must at some time or make progress another be prepared to make certain 721 Closer Association of 12 MARCH, 1948.

B.W.I.

Colonies-722 to be thrown out­ in the Legisla­ which caused that hon.

Member re­ in order to reap benefits in the stated that throug:1 lack sacrifices years to come.
One marked that we gave up our Constitution in 1923 but got nothing in return.

He further of fore­ of a railway sight we lost the opportunity to the interior.

That Men;ber did not tell us the.

reason why.

It was the old disease of fact blindness ture, or self-interest, railway proposition fear that labour would be taken away from the sugar estates the interior.
should have known that when he made his remarks, would happen again if we refuse to accept the kindly and generous Majesty's about a federation because that is the first step towards Dominion status through which we would have a voice in international affairs.

offer of His to help to brir;g area, and I say that the same thing I think the hon.

M0.mbcr and attracted to of the Caribbean Government It has been suggested by one hon.

How­ assemblies.
How­ assemblies.

Member that we are not yet able to pro­ duce men who are capable of represent­ ing us at international ever true that may be, I would ask the hon.

Member when would we be able to do so if we are not given an opportunity to gain experience government?

In that way we would practice have the necessary selves for international ultimate goal of the proposal by His Majesty's in a higher form of Government.
put forward to fit our­ conferences-the with of expressing I am in agreement without having had an our views on cenain measures · o:;:>portunity them.

Therefore the motion, and I would like to see representatives under part in the various discusswns Resolution which I believe federation as suggested 6, and coming to a decision will be that we agree to with the West Indian Colonies, from this Colony taking by the Colonial Office.
-j-, Mr. SMELLIE: I should like, sub­ at the Con­ he is better ac­ which I shall express Member.

I am mindful that with the trend of the discus­ and views ject to reservations later, to support the motion which has been so ably moved by the hon.

the First Nominated the hon.

Member was present ference at Montego Bay in September last year, and therefore quainted sions and the personalities of those who took part, than most of us here.
I do not think I would be going too far in saying that we are indebted him that we are not already ccmmitted in reS!_)ect him that we should not commit ourselves to that Resolution the recommendations Standing Committee Closer Association which is to be set u.9 under Resolutwn 6, the implications clearer.

to wish that the hon.


Member had gohe .further State in his despatch the 4th of December, many respects important until, in the light of to be rnade by the to you, Sir, dated 1947, said that in At the same time 1 am inclined in his motion.

The Secretary of all the Resolutions.

of federation to Resolution 1.

I agree with 6 was the most Resolutwn become of to Closer to the various con­ would make that in any union.
1 do This is a matter on which, in my to say whether or not we will which the Standing Committee we should take some time in The motion sub­ at a decision.

opinion, arriving mitted by the hon.

the First Nominated Member gives us an opportunity, after we have sent delegates ferences, agree to participate not agree with the amendment by the hon.

Nominated Member, Mr. Raatgever, and not delegates.
servers would be there like dummies; they would have no say in formulatn�g from policies, and when the delegates have contributed to the other Colonies the debates then at a decision British Guiana will say that ,s,he will come in.

We would then have to accept 6, so far as To my mind, Resolution British is the king­ Guiana is concerned, pin.
It is only in the light of the rec0m­ mendations Association we should find ourselves make the right decision regard to Resolution gard to several standing likely to involve commitments.

ber ,I think, is of the same opinion and two of them have tabled amendm�nts, but I am afraid I cannot agree with either of the amendments tabled.
to complic'ate feel it is my duty to move yet another in a posili-:m � not only with that we should send observers betwP.en 2 and 14 and which ::ire the Colony in financial matters still further, More than one hon Mea1- which have beeP.

In my opinion ob­ 1, but also with re­ and arrived proposed I am very sorry, Your Excellency, of the other Resolutions but I to � ......

.

:a& 723 Closer Association of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

B.W.I.

Colonies.
B.W.I.

Colonies.

724 after which, Sir, I will read a amendment and I have prepared one which I will hand to the Clerk to be handed to Your Excellency, with your permission, copy which I have here.

I move, Sir, that the words "Resolutions in the first and second the Resolutions" \lines of the motion be substituted words "Resolution 6", and that the words "Resolution which appear later in the motion be sub­ stituted tions".
read: by the words "the other Resolu­ The motion as amended will then 2 to 14 of by the relating of the Services, should be proceeded to the Uni­ all these thin6s, and the Conferences fication I think it is intended, with at once - contemporaneously the work of the Standing Closer Associa­ tion Committee.

Therefore, if this amend­ we would have to post­ ment is accepted pone them, as I see the situation.
with 1 of thr said Resolutions" Mr. SMELLIE: I am grateful to the for having pointed that that the whole Col. Secretary out, but I still maintain subJect and that if we accept the other Resolu­ tions we would be committing to certain expenditure.

ls bound up with Resolution c,urselves 6 l I .

I Mr. SEAFORD: I do not think this Colony and this Council would be com­ mitted in any way whatever.
of the British West Resolu­ "That this Council accepts tion 6 passed at the Conference on the Closer Association InJ;!i,an Colonies Jamaica, in Seotember serves judgment tions until it has h&.d an opportunity to consider of Federation of the Standing Close•· Committee held at Montego Bay, 1947. but re­ Association 6."
in the light 0£ the Report on the other Resolu­ in Resolution the practical implications proposed Can we, Sir, with our 10-year plan - afford estimates has recently which we are placing and with the moderr: for development on edu­ emphasis as reflected cation and social services in of expeq-ipiture the increased which this Council passed - and which, as hon.

Members are aware, total a sum of ove1· $16,000,000 to involve ourselves commitments collaboration?
the revenue which we derive from Cus­ toms duties?

I do not say that we can­ not, but I would like to be sure.

Thr� as I see it, is not problem of federation, confined entirely to the political and my advice is that we should wait until the Standing Closer Association Committee in the sphere of economic Can we afford to foregc in larger financia: has reported aspect .

we should not consider The COLONIAL SECRETARY:.

I the hon.
I the hon.

Mem­ think I should point do not like to interrupt ber, but I certainly out that there is a defect in his amend­ ment in that some of the Resolutions which it su.E(gests until we have had the Report of the Standing involve take place long before the Standing Closer Association ported.

For instance, for a British Caribbean the Conferences has re­ the Committees Committee.
which will Closer Association discussions Committee immediate Shipping Pool, of Primary Producers, ---- The: COLONIAL SECRETARY: I endorse that.

It was not my intentkn to give any other impression.

I waf pointing action is necessary which this amendment would defer if accepted.

out that immediate under some of the Resolutions should get together Caribbean and hon.
or closer union, the West should be appointed The PRESIDENT: I think, for 'n­ the matter of Britlsh is quite important stance, shipping Members would agree that quite apart from federntion Indian Governments to and a Committee try and hammer out a solution.

Simil­ arly, of course.

of • there: is the proposal that we the Montego Bay Conference of the primary should have conferences I think it is in the Colonies.
producers a good thing to have, but it does not fol­ low at all that if we participate are going tu ace:ept federation.

There are several of these Resolutions which to us and which call for are important early action on our part.

I think that is what the Col. Secretary is saying; he wants to say that there is no real objec­ tion to pursuing objects met and produced for federation.

has Committee plan some practical point.


I think that is the until the Standing in it we some of these desirable Mr. SMELLIE: Thank you, Sir.

I would like to say that it was my impres­ sion that the amendments moved yester­ day by two hon.

Members practically ·, ;, I� 725 Closer Association of 12 MARCH, 1948.

B.W.I.

Colonies.

726 moved by first, 1.

All I have done.


I am against federation at the present Member urges a re­ of Resolution is going to lead us, I self-government and which it would not derive The point is tha•.

1 that we should on, but the other Reso­ Sir, tha !.

as I see it is to the political covered the same points I �ade, with the that the amendment exception the hon.

Member for Eastern Demerara postulated and the amendment moved by the hon.
the Fourth Nominated jection Sir, is to cover what I think is inherent in both amendments.

it is not only Resolution judgment reserve as well.

1-i.

was saying, lutions the problem of federation not confined entirely aspect, wait until the Standing tion Committee light of that report - when it is clear what the practical implications of federa­ tion are going to be - we will then be in a position to df:cide whether it is pos­ sible for us to participate closer union.
Now, Sir, if we can do that I do not see that there will be any need for federation.

If we cannot do that then the whole thing becomes a business ,roposition.

time because I do ·not know where it is going to lead us.

When the Standing Closer Association Committee and has reported if I am able to judge from that Report where federation On the federation.

may still be against other hand, I may not be.


I cannot over­ look, Sir, certain obvious advantages which this Colony would derive from federation if it pursues a policy of isolation.

federated greater units and it would be able to make its voice heard effectively of the world on matters affectmg trade and commerce such as allocations for imports and exports, Preference.

wider opportunity Civil Service.


I do not think that even a federated West Indies would be strong enough withoui outside against aggression time, unity is strength material m British Islands than one moral.

and my advice is that we should Closer Associa­ and in the sense and the recent happenings and in the Falkland Also, there would be a for promotion and quotas and Imperial would appear to point to more West Indies would possess These are only two points.
by anybody but, at the same in the Councils aid to protect has reported bargaining themselves in economic Honduras not only in a in the A a power than individual I be­ federa­ Government.

a _path of splendid but before doing that, Sir, we with regard to the good inten­ If we find of political we may have to from the whole I was impressed by some of the points made in the speech made by the hon.

Member for Eastern Berbice, especially tions of His Majesty's agree with him there.
but I would like to say that we shall have to be very care­ ful in spite of those good intentions fore WE; commit ourselves.
that the implications tion are too dangerous withdraw altogether movement, want to be quite sure as to the wisdom in treading to our problematic At this stage, Sir, I think it is somewhat premature ideas against federatio are agamst tederation it will retard self-government connection the Trinidad Legislature spent a great deal of time in discussing Resolution for Eastern Demerara holds that point of view.
Others are against cause they suspect ment is using federation which to divest itself sibility both of these arguments and I do not agree with either of them.

the British Govern­ as a cloak under respon­ towards the West Indies.

I think n. Some people because they think , and in this to adopt fixed and unalterable isolation destiny.

2.

I think the hon.


Member are fallacious continental of financial federation be­ is likely to especially influences in this Council or outside simply by a policy of non­ in these days of and swift inter­ the introduction of undesirable be prevented federation, rapid communication change of ideas.

Before I fesume my I would like to summarise seat, Sir, my subject (views on this very important so of mis­ that there should be no possibility understanding of it.
I support the motion before this Council if my amendment falls through.

I feel, however, lution 6 policy not only in connection lution 1 but in connection Resolutions privileges without political federate.

a further examination At the moment the princiµle tion should not be rejected should it be accepted.

neither reserve judgment.

of federa­ in tote, We should with Reso­ with the other I my do not there should be of the question.

should be our guidf: for future as well.


If we can enjoy the that the outcome of Reso­ federation, If we cannot, of economic It is not apparent to me that Mr. DEBIDIN: To a point of correc- closer association or the infiltration .......... 727 Closer Association of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

B.W,I.

Colonies.

728 for geographically ourselves in in the 1f it is the me on the question I put on i.t.
continent of thought, and one might West Indies, one does not have self-govern­ Rather, I stated his impression - that· this discus­ pre-supposes West Indies as such.

we are not part and Guiana forms an integral of self-government.

I never The PRESIDENT: Before the next part of and when­ it Mr. SMELLIE: If I misunderstood can go forward to­ but my point is West Indian Colon­ that the inter­ that if we were to we would not be able to - confusion of description, of rnterest.
- and we persuade have been We look at the White Paper requisite takes place U!.

:_�" for a system.

It is stated in the Whij� It is his before me which to my mind the interpretation of closer of the British West Indian Of course, the hon.

Member I apologise.

amendment suggested tion: I did not want to interrupt and the way in which the Colonies.

non.

Member· who has just taken his seat which we are interested but I would and cut his trend of thought, described.
in which he like to correct and we note that it calls for considera­ seems to have misunderstood tion of the momentous question association at any time contended Colonies.

have federation to go very far to note the ambiguity get self-government.
that term - British that federation ies - when one considers ment as a preliminary est of British Guiana is sought to be federal �oupled in this matter with that of the Paper that if federation British concerned Colonies and historically wards self-government, parcel of the British that they should have s·elf-government British before they become federated.
the South American as West Indians ever we are described is by that token one can see the begin­ ning of confusion confus1011 also say confusion intention that it is the intention sion should affect only the islands area, then it is for us: (British of the South American con_­ as a portion tinent to say that it is none o:t our business.

quiet and say "let them carry on without us."


But, if on the other hand the term us - and it enough to include is elastic in is believed the use of the words - then the time has come :for us to be up and doing and to make up our minds as to what we intend That is to do about the entire question.

why we are here and that is why we are spending sion of the entire question.

have noticed has certainly rhetorical in order to give variety how we feel on the world to understand this great and all-absorbing hon.
Member speaks I would like to point out to the Council that there are now before us and not one three amendments I do not want to has been seconded.

hurry the Council but that 1s the posi · tion.
in the discussion question, paying high and grateful sterling as to say intriguing which this whole matter has been pre­ of State for the sented by the Secretary Colonies here, but also to the other legislatures in this question terested For my own part I can see no reason why anyone :ohould feel moved to view with suspicion written association British Caribbean through the various White Paper one cannot be but impressed with the frank lucidity phase of this collossal presented for consideration various with one cannot but again be impressed that is so appar­ the surprising ent in the very manner in which the has been presented to us, entire subject how I feel about the ques­ much further tion as posed before us, I should say at once "Affiliation no."
By that I mean that if the call Guiana to embark comes to us in British upon the changes of a new order for of the with the islands working together area, then I would say Caribbean British has been done by all means.

If anything a)ready - and many things have been - and one might even go as far - sincerity with that thus far this Council in any fulsome not indulged I cannot begin other than by to th·e tribute that has been said or of this idea of closer area.
As one looks paragraphs by these On the other hand, with which every problem has been not only to our own Legislature Mr. PETERS: As I rise to take par• anything in respect that th&t is the intention <f._ If I may summarise these days in ;; serious among the Colonies of this very momentc:,us.

of pyrotechnics Legislatures in these parts.

frankness Caribbean question.


before going I am glad to discus­ of the in the of the in­ - - yes; assimilation effusion or in any protracted We should · keep absolutely ·t� ,; > .Guiana always suffered from the 729 Closer Association of 12 MARCH, 1948.

B.W.I.

Colonies.

730 • such lines gomg to return to British New Guinea?"

area apparent resemblance of its name �c.

New Guinea.
New Guinea.

One would als0 o.f is our destiny under thought when folks abroad had to speak destiny, come upon other forms of confusion But, if it about this homeland out when they came to describe of ours, or still more us.

In many a� we would be described instances "Demerarians".
As Your Excellency between the British knows, there are other folks than Dem-- and ourselves then I would reply have the Esseguibians, Guiana; you if you allow th-c unde"<· erarians who live in British - yes; word, and tnJ Berbicians.

Government.
relationship of the fact that their of the British Caribbean of setting to become enmeshed done - {et us continueliong whereby we would be able to assure the British Colonies that we are seized with the truth and British seriousness to a large extent, His Majesty's comes to the other question to allow ourselves in any plan or programme for political federal West Indian Colonies the proposed set-up, again that my stand is "Affiliation assimilation debate it seems as though we have been straddling according hon.
the First Nominated have been called upon to defer final as to whether we act10n on the question should or should not federnte with the island� two horses.

On the one hand, to the motion presented by the - no."

In the course of thi.-; West Indian area.


of the British Member, we Then again if one forgot that for a Province would be des­ we are not and certainly you as "British but would say you are a that again might include moment and came upon some other friends who might fight shy of confusing British Guiana with British New Guinea and would not describe Guianese" "Guianese", folks from Dutch Guiana and from French Guiana.
And so you have there another phase of confusion of thought and con­ Then again there are tusion of description.

piaces where, as we find here, folks from this Magnificent cribed as "West Indians," as a matter of fact, as I said just now, and historically geographically of of the West Indies.

confusion of thought This certainly calls to my mind what the old astute and illustrious Antrobus as, in referring cribmg us, "They have been indulging an abominable inexactitudes".
to say about these various we have been described ing described back to this: Fundamentally though to the folks abroad so far as we are concerned is not much in a name, w1:: might be brought in somewhat for aiding and abetting without protest which certainly Whatever one might have terms by which and are still be­ abroad, we, have to come to such confusion in des­ in such an attit1.1de by accepting a description of ourselves we know is not accurate.

schoolmaster.
schoolmaster.

George would have described Another instance and description.

here in British it seems that, Guiana there Roberts, guilty j} In that oration to which I just re­ I made bold to coin a composite ferred, word, and when I coined that word by which I thought we might be described I was also frank and generous it or ieave it."
I felt if we were casting around to find a ·new name by which we to say "Take � or and to deliver the oration is the big issue because when all is said We have, however and not without good reason, chosen to give seriou, thought to the question of federation no federation, and done that ultimately in the offing.
I am glad to have lived to see this day, for the reason that in the year 1932-it you will pardon a persom>l remimscence in of mine, a reminiscence part, I believe, which might be shared by one or two of those who sit around this - it was my privilege Council tabl1:: honour when I returned to this Colony after spending a score of years abroad to be invited august assembly ot the Negro Progress Convention, known.
In that oration to the attention within the sound of my voice but also of body the larger whole of our colonial politic from which we suffer in respect of confusion term, shall I say, bv which' we are de­ scribed into the homes of friends in Scotland, parts of the U.S.A. and you spoke as havjng come from British Guiana, there was a pause of short duration, and it was very likely that when your friends subsequently homeland they would ask you in 70 cases out of 100 "When are you if you went in England or the great disadvantage was then as the organization abroad.
For instance, desired to refer to your as I did, and in certain not only of those who sat I sought to bring of the at the array of terminological , .. \..... ..

...I.

�- '731 Closer .4ssociation of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

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Colonies.

732 :e- a in­ we " I use area.

or of with the but I just re­ sense, in that I do not give of thinking gestation.

for folks living and Demerara, that confronts of Demerarian that here to-day, etymological inexactitude of federating South American.
of the word 'South" to find its Colonial we have to consider But, Sir, when we speak fact.
I am saying all that link up in part our in part our political for folks living only in British Guiana was soul, its terri­ even to the described the terminological when it comes to of the weal or the of the Caribbean esprit de corps and, it seems to me, gesture upon we have through a phase of, shall I British it is our desire here to see them make the that we desire and believe the first two and the word There you will have a name We are not can be correctly point of avoiding exactitude m Berb1ce, Essequibo the other terminological Guianese Gmana and not in French Guiana and then the time had come for Dutch Guiana, us to have the word "Brisa-American," word made up of the first sylla­ composite ble in the word "British," letters "American."
for British discussing call a historical points to the fact that up to that time and may be up to the living present been passing say, political seeking torial Sir, that in this laudable which His Majesty's barked by suggesting seek, if we so desire, Colony with the Colonies Sea, His Majesty's to feel that very soon a Colonial be born in British Guiana I am here to say that it seems to me too that what has been done has acted as a sort of galvanic shock upon us and at last thL baby is born, at last the soul of British soul of British to a large extent we displayed, proud of it, laudable to which we owe allegiance.
to the Throne was not much sup­ loyalty ported on the other hand by a corres­ patriotism ponding we call our habitat Province.

torial superciliousness the question woe of the Colonies We want to assure them that we are in with them, and when sympathy profound I use the word "sympathy" to 1t its mere morbid connotation.

it in its strictly we want to assure them that we feel at one with them, that in British Guiana progress 1eserve ourselves.
of the prospect West Indian Colonies, just what is the challenge us.

We are being called upon to link up in part our resources, entity link up services, of our and link up in part many other with those Colonies of Colonial the Caribbean fortune of visiting Islands of the Caribbean Grenada, Barbados, Dominica.

and, if I may be permitted Antigua.

clude it, Bermuda.

I had the privilege of visiting ing periods have enumerated, that there is a great deal to be done in or­ der to enhance the progress onies.
But I am conscious that there is a great deal to be done in or­ der to enhance the developmental pros­ soul, Guiana.

Our Colonial pects of British to state, as I ventured being, shocked as it were by the galvanic fact super-introduced Conference.

may say so.

How can we hope to make if we link our much plasmatic other toddlers forces, less able, one might say, than we our­ selves are?

in the past and we are to the Throne But that should to federate our of the Caribbean progress our resources with area.
I know Trinidad, St. Lucia, St. Vincent, area.

I have had the good nearly all of the and of remaining those several has em­ Government to us that we of those Col­ of the fact too, ashore for vary­ Islands St. Kitts, Nevis, Montserrat, We are merely toddlers, began soul would in this Magnificent that are under review, has just come into and I cannot but feel to the sacred soil which Guiana has come by the call for this Guiana because if nowhere: else.

Government to life.
Government to life.

I say the interests the Islands loyalty soul, that I to in­ if I Now with the birth of our Colonial esprit de co:tps, we are seek­ the pros and cons to partri­ or territorial to the loyalty our territorial ing by our discussing match our Colonial otism with our national Throne to which we owe aliegiance.

And so to--day, Sir, we are faced with these two issues-to to make up our minds to become West Indian Federationists Isolationists?

other.
other.

I think, Sir, on entering momentous divert oneself of every vestige We have to join one or the upon so as this, one should of terri- be or not to be.

Are we going or Brisa-American a discussion Of course, Sir, to a large extent when the relative of these various politically one cannot but begin by laying one is called upon to evaluate importance territories, one's finger upon two important (1) the test of area and natural ties and (2) the test of population.
along it seemed as though those who stood in a position thought, to decide upon, as they of the rela- the worst evaluation potentiali­ All tests­ � 733 Closer Association of 1.2 MARCH, 1948.

.B.

W.I.

Colonies.

734 of our continental integration we as a lesser fryJ in of Despite Jamaica of Tropical of locating the Imperial the proposed Agriculture our vaunted pride in there.
When it came for the West Indies, that the oil resources and there on of of numbers as in 1·espect Agricul­ One cannot would begin by been that have as in the case of Trini­ of these Colonies here for resources developed tive status looking already dad with its oil potentiality the question Jamaica.

In these parts, as Your Excel­ lency is well aware, the lmpenal Govern­ ment has its College ture in the Island of Trinidad.
but pursuade oneself of that Colony formed a great argument favour of locating College Tropical to the question University has been chosen as the site for that University.

respect still are being regarded among the Colonies standing persuade that when the resources will have been developed, they will be fully developed, mies of the Caribbean to hold a candle by the side of ours, we have been retarded.
pause here spect of the matter of the development our natural people of British not had the fullest to the market of the world the resources with which Nature has been pleased endow us.

We have not started Colonial group to scratch own soil here in order to know the ex­ tent of what we have to offer to the world.

the fact that we know, and we ourselves that heaven knows, of British Guiana as we believe anywhere in re­ of One is not gcing to in this land.

The of this area.
Notwith­ Guiana, as such, have opportunity to bring area can never hope to lay blame deeply into our resowces these Col­ yet as a to I say, Sir, at this time we should be in respect developed should be that we and ambition by an motivated and am­ purpose thought, and that overmastering dominated, thought, on its own hind legs, if one to use personalities I am one of those who will actuated, overmastering bition, purpose are going to see British Guiana and developed is permitted of a colony.
always speak confidently, imputed to me as speaking and I shall have no apology the high continental destiny ficent Province the expression, He was doing when He set us apart on this continent, should engage our of wl:,.

"'1; it should be the great question that and if there is anything attention at this time of ours.

If you will allow the Almighty to make, of of this Magni­ if it may be also blatantly knew what ,.........___ esprit and th2t the better, we are aware the time is fast towards the of ours.
It .is also, Sir, my potentialities and the more speedily shall we do, now that our Colonial de corps.
has come into being, in order to let the world know that we are aware of our continental contacts, of our territorial to do all that lies .ln our we are prepared power to see that our rr.sources do r.ot remain hidden in the hinteriancl of this great country considered opinion that coming, when this Colony of ours should whip point of deciding itself ther or not - it should car.sider the question seriously - it should embark upon a period of mHcantile cial relationship whatever may be their national Why is it we are to reside here as the only British of South America and we should be so grievously life, the culture, of the peoples to ours?
tiguous I remember, whose territories dense as regards and some of you Possession the economic ar.d commer­ on the continent with our neighbour::: plan.

are con­ whe­ the politic:il aspiration:; there.

develop culture my wife travelled will remember too, that not quite two years ago I took upon myself to fly from this Colony to the U.S.A. We got and there we began to come to Trinidad patoir and with the Trinidad into contact spoken there.

the serious I say Spanish with me.


•'we" because We were at a loss to anything of a common esprit de corps save only We got to Puerto Rico being in Trinidad.

and there we were worse off; although yet the they have the American Spanish language still dominates At Cuba it was the same thing.

All and how along, however intelligent erudite when ourselves we considered we left home, we felt as.

so many dunces travelling to exchange and we were no bit the wiser.
Returning home we touched at Cuba and Haiti, a French speaking and there again we could not but find ourselves from the body !
)olitic expression country were concerned, because they spoke French, fluentl:v, as carried on current conversation those people day today, we were among and yet we were dunces among those who came into contact and spoke it very by which they from among people who were able one with the other in so far as the folks of that whiie separated and of thought the language thoughts colony, with us.

735 Closer Association of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

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736 and disadvantages If one had to speak factually about of international Empire.

of .

the world.

Another advantages unit of the British would be Dominion status as the relative of federation he should enmnerate some of the arguments for federation.
First of all, through federation we may hope to enjoy the privilege con­ tact; our voices would be heard in the Councils advantage an integral Following upon that we may hope to gain that fleeting and sometimes very nebulous thing we call political social halo, by being governed by a Governor-General.

would be a Customs Uniou and other forms of reciprocity with the other Colonies, public services.

would be the removal of th� head­ quarters destiny from Downing Street.
There may be other advantaees those few for the purpose of my argument.

and a unification of the control of the various Then another advantage Another advantage but I enumerate prestige, of our political freedom and independ­ I will now deal with the disadvan­ tages.

The first is that we shall certainly lose our territorial ence.

As soon as we shall have got into this proposed set-up of federation we shall to that extent voluntarily surrender some of our freedom.
We shall be creating to our detriment hurdle over which to climb, if there is any desire on our part to get to Downing Street-a sort of colossal humbug mechanism by which our pro­ gress towards Downing Strtet for the consideration of any matter would certainly be: very much impeded.

That I regard as anothe1 of the disadvantages from which we would suffer if we joined this federation a new political set-up.

administrative of the Then again we may Government.
in importance of State, even the prospect of our fiscal powers.

We shall a major sacrifice on of the machinery sacrifice have to face, as we have been told by the Secretary of enduring in respect of the carrying Federal be superseded the location running of the Federal Government, cause we may be told that our population is too few, our resources developed, and still more, perhaps, that we are too far South.

We would then find that we are relegated in spite of what we might have to offer to the world.
as regards for the of the machinery into the background I are still un­ be­ I.f I were asked to state in a few to which Guiana would address l Guiana, having found its colonial I thr, the issue of indus­ the issue of population, ar.d upon that, the issue of free I venture to suggest that itself words some of the subjects British soul, should address its investigation, would say the issue of exploration, issue of exploitation, trialisation, contingent immigration.
if British to those issues and others of kindred im­ portance, of the general prospects along those lines, the time might come when we might be of great assistance the Colornes time might come when we, on our part, with the argument of our developmental progress, Government, sighted the question status might dare to ask the Imperial if they were too short­ to see it themselves, of granting and would see to the enhancing in the Caribbean us Dominion of our Colony to consider area.
The to .. i Then as regards the administration .

of the Laws of our Colony we have it that a Federal Court would probably replace all existing Supreme Courts.

On this point I will quote from the White Paper on page 13, paragraph (vii) which says: ·- "(vii) A Federal Court which would replace all existing Supreme possibly Courts."
� I Then we would b11 called upon too, so, to make a major and necessarily that we say to them, "Go ahead, good luck, If the Islands in the Caribbean area desire to federate among themselves, and if they would like to ask us for some advice as to whether they should, I for one would suggest in one loud chorus: God bless you."
On the other hand, on the question proposed the most effective machinery hope to set up and foster, is that if it is a question of sorts., anything with the West Indian Colonies, I would say let us investigate, and where we consider it wise or necessary let us join in and be one humbug that we could at any time my last word of a closer union short of federation administrative which I consider of our stepping set-up, federal into the - ·J 737 Closer Assoc:;iation of 12 MARCH, 1948.

B.W.I.

Colonies.
B.W.I.

Colonies.

738 with them.

But as regards political federation American isolationists.

affiliation; by no means assimilation.

I would say let us remain South By all meahs from obtaining Resolution clearly states: because self-government, 2, which we propose to accept, [ Mr. FERNANDES: I am going to try to put in as few words as possible on this motion.
1 am goir g my position (1) that it is to do so for three reasons: my duty not to take up too much of the time of the Council, I speak the bigger the bill for printing the Hansard is going to be, and (3) the shorter of paper is going to lbe.

Paper comes from hard currency short supply.

my speech is the more �he saving (2) that the longer countries and is in in I :i.m not 2 to 14 but Committee.
on Resolutio�1 Guiana to federate; First of all I am going to a::cept and support the motion before the Council that we accept Resolutions 1 until reserve judgment to consider we have had an opportunity the practical .

of federation implications the light of the report of the Standing Closer Association going to throw aside any opportunity offered to British am I going to accept on behalf of my constituency not too sure_.
something not know -the financial the political implications ter of fact, all the other implications.

will not be a party to either throwing aside or accepting pressing of such �reat importance have to obtain a mandate from my con­ stituency or before voting for or against and, as a mat­ I it of which I am of which I do · my own opm10n.

On a matter before expressing I would first it by myself or by ex­ an opinion, something nor federation.

implications, I have asked the hon.


the Attorney­ of this General whether acceptance motion would bind us in any way as re­ gards our final acceptance of federation, would not I am going to motion.
accept the or refusal and on his advice that it I have listened to quite '.l few and I would like to say that who looks speeches there is no one in this Council forward more eagerly than I do to the t day when we will have self-goV?l'nmen nur in British acceptance now I do not think it would hinder us in any way Guiana, but by postponing of federation � -- "Resolved: That this Conference units of the British that an increasing measure of should be extended to Carib­ devel­ whose political believes responsibility the several bean territories.
opment must be pursued as an aim in itself, and in no way without prejudice subordinate federation."

to progress towards As postponement of our acceptance of self-gov­ I will not deal with the merits until such time of federation would not hinder our pro­ as will be found by Association of federation gress towards the attainment ernment, or demerits as the entire facts, the Standing Closer tee under Resolution me.

When that is done I shall put those facts before .


and advise them as far as possible where the benefits are and where the pitfalls are.

I will then abide by their decision and vote accordingly in this Council rny constituents 6, are put before .

Cc,1::.nr.�t­ .

Fourth Nominated Mr. PHAKG:.

I rise to support the amendment moved by the hon.

the Memb:e:t (Mr. Raat­ with gever).

I find myself in agreement all he has said.


The PRESIDENT: I do not think is yet before the Council, that amendment for the reason that it has not been sec­ onded.

Nor has the other amendment been seconded.

to keep the� in doubt as to Mr. PHANG: I will second the hon.

As I have Mr. Raatgever's amendment.

with all said, I find myself in agreement he has said, and that I want to emphasize it would not be fair to the West Indian Colonies what we are going to do about federa­ tion.
As far as I am concerned want federation.

In my opinion very much to lose and nothing to gain b:v federation.

exp�nditure would be an increase As it is we are finding difficulty now.

ing our commitments Instead of our colonial ,, being reduced I think there I do not there is in our expenditure.

in meet­ I� I also agree with the hon.

Member that not delegates, should observers, sent to the meetings of the Standing Closer Association Committee be- be .J 739 Closer Association of LEGISLATIVE .COUNCIL.
B.W.l.

Colonies.

740 the This.

coun­ and inade­ have been two may commit us when we to our development, District I think it is verv shameful cause delegates would like freedcm of action.

try is on the verge of large scale develop­ ment.

Lack of population facilities quate transport major drawbacks but we will soon tackle (those problems and overcome them.

I represent which has been long North-West neglected.

that a magnificent only have a steamer service night.
When I think of the North-West possibiEties l;f and its limitless District oil, gold_.

timber, balata and rubber I cannot think of federation addition would be a curtailment this Legislative became federated For all these reasons I am against fed­ eration like that should once a fort­ to that I agree also that there with the West Indies.

Council if this, Colony of the powers o'!

: district at all.
: district at all.

In Mr. McDOOM: I did not expect that I would have had an opportunity to speak today, but I will speak on the and markets for of popuiation question our rice.

I will deal first with the ques­ because that was the tion of population urged in favour of federation main point by some of the previous speakers.

to.
to.

mechanize are endeavouring as early as possible, industry that has been accomplished say that we will have a very large amount of labour available In fact I do not think the sugar industry.

which is our largest able to assimilate be made available mechanization illustrate figures.

will be industry, all the labour that will as a result of the of the rice industry.

my point I will quote and when I venture to We our rice in this Colony.
To some The PRESIDENT: Is this relevant to the motion before the Council ?

for other every four persons and cultivation in the harvesting used for ploughing '.

I am referring to and the When it is taken into that 80,000 acres are under workers will be made available forms of employment machinery cultivation of rice.

In regard to the of rice, for harvesting who are employed today we will only need one.

Therefore, of rice 75 per cent.


of the labour at pres­ ent employed will be available for use In the case of in other industries.

of rice 14 out ploughing of every 15 workers will be available for other employment.
consideration rice cultivation workers would be available other directions another to correction, the sugar industry absorb much of that available 'i happen to know that the sugar industry to a greater is being mechanized, therefore extent than the rice industry, do not think that becau8e we are offered labour from the West Indian islands any reason why we should be persuadPd to accept federation.

On the question at one period, time about 7,400.


I speak subject but it does seem to me that it will be found that 8,000 would not be able to of markets I wish to for labour in labour.

I perhaps and at is I of I feel that with the say that today we know that we can sell all the rice we produce.

We have con­ tracts with the West Indian islands and I there­ there is no fear of losing them.
fore do not see any reason why the ques­ of our rice should tion of the marketing play any part at all in this question federation, because we mechanization will be able to reduce the cost of pro­ duction to such an extent that we would be comers, I have no fear about eign competitors.

that.

I have figures whic;h I can give the Council.

be able to produce to be able to meet any competition.
One more point I would like from all­ face competition or for­ whether they are British of our ricf industrv All I say is that we wrn rice at such a price as able to Mr. McDOOM: I will merely sa:,' " is being made that capital that I be]ieve and J of the idea that we need labour, to show want to give some information any labour as far that we do not need is concerned, and as the rice industry is mechan­ that when the rice industry ized much labour will be released for use in other directions.
with every unit of machinery into the rice industry to make is that if we decide to accept federation accept the principle at which we sell our rice to the other members fof the federation must be the same as we charge consumers in this Colony.
At present local consumers I happen to know that in the West Indian islands rice is being sold to at 5 cents per pint, and For instance, introduced it is being sold at 7 cents per pint 14 out of every 15 we must necessarily that the price " 741 Closer Association of 12 MARCH, 1948.

B.W.I.

CoLonies.

742 article.

as a subsidized the people of Trinidad ouring that British them with rice at the same price at which we are selling I know too that have been clam­ Guiana should supply to local consumers.
Now, Sir, I think that if an argument in federa­ it would be ad­ That is one good as they are today - I should support of this kind is advanced now that there is no federation, vanced moreso when there is federation.

We find that if WE.

were federated our people would have had a chance - with conditions existing to get 7 cents per pint for rice instead of 5 cents as at present.

reason why we should not join tion and, in my opinion, the amendment moved by the hon.

Nom­ inated Member, Mr. Raatgever.


so I feel I am justified because we are not sending representatives from this Colony to the meetings Closer Association gates but as observers.

I have already stated that of the three delegates we sent to the Montego Bay Conference, we find two of them not differing in any way but I am sorry I cannot say the same thing As far as I can see he has committed us in some form or other in favour of federation.

about the other delegate.


Committee as, dele­ of the Standing In doing Dr. SINGH: To a point of order, Sir.

I have not committed ony but I am in favour of federation.

myself or the Col­ The PRESIDENT: I do not think the Colony.

The went to the Conference with a and were charged by anyone has committed delegates full understanding the ,Legislature commit us to anything, not do so.
that they were not to and� they could with which to withdraw to go through without are self-govern­ on that or as delegates - ·.ve as derstand that the hon.

Member for Eastern Demerara is willing his amendment and, therefore, I will support the one moved by the hon.

the Fourth Nominated Member.

I am not in favour of the motion as it stands, ancl I am not in favour of federation.
The position as I see it 1s that if we accept the motion as it stands we would be binding ourselves knowing tha commitments we would be saddled in the future, but if we go throu.gh under ResolutioP.. o - either as observers would be able to obtain information which this.

Colony to the obligations would find itself under.

We have been told that we should unite and we all know that unity is strength, but I would ask - unite for what?
It is not a case where all these Colonies ing units - and I would elaborate at a later stage.

What I would say now is that we should be extremely before we think of committing ony to any form of political Before we come to such a decision should have some form of autonomy - some form of self-government.

It was the desire of His Majesty's to grant self-government ial territories, in that respect.

government to Jamaica, have got it we are asked to federate.

hon.
hon.

Member says that erate in order to give ourselves Constitution when taking part in the councils cf the world, but we should ask ourselves if federation among ourselves - and thb is only a matter of comparison - is some­ thing to which we should be bound ;n order to obtain self-government.

Why is it that Great Britain is not federated ?

Why is it that Australia snd New Zealand have not federated ?

!\.re we going to say for one moment :hat Australia and New Zealand can l :and on their own ?
Are we going to say that for military and other reasons federate to these Colon­ but how far have we gone They have given self­ but before we One we shouk, fed­ and to protect ourse!ves but they should not ?

federation.

Governrr:ent we shc;tild a better herself careful this Col­ we Sir.

I Mr. McDOOM: I apologise, - that we were was told so privately committed.

As that is not the case I am not going to say anything further, I heartily support the motion the hon.

Nominated gever.
Nominated gever.

Member, Mr. Raat­ moved by but Mr. WIGHT: I would have sup­ There is another point that one has ported both amendments one by the hon.

Member for Eastern Demerara and the other by the hon.

the Fourth Nominated Member - but I un- to consider stage I would be permitted or two passages is, of course, bearing the economic moved - the - and I hope that at a later ,!

on it - and that and the legal to read one -� 743 Closer Association of .

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.B.

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Colonie,s.


744 I and we in this of hon.

I would and the towards in certain generally federated, Surely we have to in a Federal of t'ie physical with our present of these Colonies while in others it would be and a free approach of the territories Perhaps it would be appro­ to be bound by a written the same results­ and so on-by free to enable those Colonies ?
Those are points ourselves code which in some cases would I do ·not doubt for one moment the of His Majesty's I hope at .s:ome time to move a motion for a new and for this Colony.

end of their clevelo1Jment cases.

They have nothing to develop and to contribute would have nothing as far as we know.

expenditure Are they faced with such problems as sea defences and and drainage, irrigation so on ?
Those are things which some of them have never even seen or heard of, to the and we al'e going to tax ourselves to hilt internally develop themselves which need serious consideration.

think we can achieve the same co-operation to the association and so on.

It Councils is clear that if we can do that we can over the bring about the same expansion without per­ whole group of territories self-government, mitting federal not be elastic fair.

absolutely sides of the question.


the question c:msider contiguity fact that the seas divide the areas which We have it is being sought to federate.

have had our own federation Colony away back in 1831.

There were then three Colonies-Berbice, Essequibo and Demerara-which are now British Guiana.

I hope to produce evidence to show that even which difficulties legally there are certain must be overcome if there i::.

federation, since that is inherent Government.


priate at this stage to refer to the fact­ and I know that the majority Members would agree with me-that we are not satisfied We 1..vant Constitution.

and I think that when we were being given which this Crown Colony Government we have that was the time we should have been asked to accept federation.
Nevertheless, in this Council better Constitution like· to adopt the words of an eminent - Lord Ronald - a Liberal statesman Peer who has had much practical and who in the ence in Administration over the BBC laid course of a broadcast the blame for thP.

non-development the Colonial Office.

He questions Governors tories ·with pretty salaries they gained exverience conception people around perhaps, a minute paper in the Colonial Office.

He seems to think that the whole thing should be abolished.
Surely we can go along by what I might to that by which process term a similar the British within the last half century, development co-operat10n, has been recognised involves of the nation's over its economic sincerity because they have also thrown out an but I would crave alternative Sir, to read a few your indulgence, "Intro­ Dicey's from Professor passages duction to the study of the Law of the I a.m ( not going to read Constitution".

the whole book or a whole chapter, and I would I can assure hon.
Members that not be as long as my hon.

friend, the Member for Demerara-Essequibo.

In this Dicey says : "Federalism book Professor for a body of is a natural constitution desire: union and do not states which desire unit:v." Now, with the West Indian Colonies?

friend, differentiates between and appropriat-ion- M1·.

WIGHT: Very well Are we going to say that we are approximate in wealth t0 some of the Colonies with whom ?

Do we we are being asked to federate .

wealth and in in this Colon:v's believe ?


If we do not, this Colony's then let us federate anything, but wealth to develop to federate ·approximate and government and that it fears.

We talk to the Federal things-taxation and are at the glibly about Government so on-but those small islands the Member for Western Berbice assimilation a.s: it would not mean we have much potential the policy whereby were sent out to these terri­ by free association but not by federation.
It surrendering certain dn we desire union My hon.

and got their own by meeting the which do not like ours in size Mr. PETERS: I used the terms Em9ire has been developecl and "assimilation".
to control by somebody with a table they were subject, that is, and free and we are being asked that federation "affiliation" on the Colonial suggestion, territories other inherent with Colonies and although Government structure, the sun-ender of problems to a certain anything destiny control experi­ extent of •has several ir� .,_l" 745 C)pser Association of 12 MARt;;H, 194�.

B.W.1.

Colonies.

746 .

of position The historical of may or may not be of but I do ask hon.
the question - where the seas and destiny.

these Colonies some similarity, Members to consider physical contiguity divide us from each other and where we on are not just alongside of or bordering each other.

We have seen instances of federation reasons but there are im�ortant for some of the sases of which we have heard-those America, permitted of some Canadian "Engmeermg reference bv the Innis and Dales, and oublished of Toronto-Press.
This is University their view about the development of the Maritime Canada and so c,n.

If I am I would like to quote the view in the book with special to Canada, written by Young, of the United States of and Society" economists Provinces in Canada : of a in Australia, and also in Canada.

have also caused because one gets a the legalism It is true .

that the \ti'ouble in that country These State legislatures trouble hard form affecting federal territory.
judges do their best, but would anyone suggest a Federal Constitution any state law, however and whether the demand of the people as repeated able to over-rule by saying "this revenue is wrong, this taxation is wrong" ?

This learned says :- author-Dicey-also that the Judges should know how to comprehensive, the Federal authority by those in power would be would react judicial who profess "If it be placed in the hands of and probablv desire judges, to practise it may impartialitv.
be very difficult to ensure general respect dicts the interests a dominant party.

Federation.

creates divided aliegiance."

of lastly for any decision \and the principles which contra­ .

to by by tying occasioned "The attempt of the Maritimes the difficulties of the continent, and railway, more closely to the overcome the st2amship their fortunes interior been a successful majority from the resources forest, that alliance happy one.
The :ittempt economy by political face of geographical always costly and �eldom satisfactory."

of the peoplP.

who still of the sea and the has not been a an difficulties in the is one .... For the to rebuild has hardly measures live I certainly agree with that.

We do one­ is working that suggesting of Federal Consti­ ?

For myself I am not that that is so.

In other words, not know what form tution would be decided on _: I certainly do not agree with the suggested that we should turn to Jamaica.
Is His Majesty's Government the Jamaica Constitution satisfactorily satisfied a man might find himself supporting find himself Jamaica with its self-government, become federated Colonies a form of divided allegiance be expected to multiply into several cases.

That is one of the weaknesses a Federal Constitution.
says:- measure and then public opinion a certain up against We will get and it can as a Guianese This book also in if we of "A true federal government is based on the division means the constant manship to balance one state of the confederacy against another."

of powers.

It effort of states­ When we talk about nat10ns and is all nationals it is all comparative-it a matter of degree.

We can be a nation and, as the hon.

the Fourth Nominated Member who is not here now pointed out.
'-'-'e can become a Dominion �uch as Dutch Guiana woulcl become.

That is why I suggest become a nation without federating.

I do not desire to be too technical, but I to state think no one is in a position Guiana should that British I would suggest to hon.
Members of this question to those indicated this aspect of the that if we consider of which difficulties-some geographical in the case are similar of the Maritime Provinces-we would of federation approach with fear and trepidation if we have the of this Colony at heart.

I do not interest subscribe hon.

to the views of certain Members who seem to think that others would come here and put the interest the community behind them because to be they do not want more labourers brought into the country.
If that was so in the past I think we have overcome that within the last decade and we have a more liberal attitude towards the general progress Professor is the denial of federal government to every state of national That has caused a lot the federation."

the hon.

Member of trouble, the for Western Berbice who traversed United States of America some time in his youth would realise that of the Colony today.

Dicey goes on to say : "A truly independence and per:1aps it caused .

;;.
;;.

and everything else-at the 747 Closer Association of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

B.W.l.

Colonies-748 and a certain federation by continual ?

Certainly development Constitution to turn around and say which have a greater self-government It may well be that while I we had so many captains of all kinds-visitors etc., etc.

We should not praise our­ but I refer to this point because measure of self-government none.
Do we really degree to various parts of the we are-that we are more of the pulling of two are going to get the people circles for the West Indian teams which would mean that and I do not envisage we would be bene­ of the Colony since I quite agree difficulties to be overcome.

of that we should reply to the Secretary should State stating that precede the question and of federation that it might bE all right for Jamaica to consider because they have a�·ead.v been granted self-government.
One should not expect us to federate with those Colonies degree of Constitutional a greater measure of self-government than we have, because we would be surrendering our Constitutional rights in every and prospects to those Colonies way.
We should ask ourselves what right have they to come in and guide our destiny think that havmg wor, a greater and a greater at the price of their own blood, their own manipulation price sometimes pistols-we in those Colonies 'come into federation with us ; you have no further for development you everything I heard the hon.
Member for Essequibo River saying that he desired federation because of the resolutions Caribbean would point out that some of those resolutions being :mplemented necessary to federate I should say ment those resolutions?

not.

Why can't it be done around a con­ ference table as so many other things have been done ?
At the moment I feel it i<; not in the interest of the Colony to vote for or support a motion which will entangle with any particular what a Federal to this Colony, by its acceptance fitting the interest we would be abandoning our resources to the people of the West Indian Islands.

I thought one hon.

Member when he was phase of this ques­ discussing tion would have pointed out that we have had an example of what just recently federation might mean, when in our cricket selected are meeting the M.C.C.
in these parts, and all that sort of thine.

I was rather amused to hear continually in this Council during this debate that the people in this Colony--our not as own people-are as the people of the West good in culture I myself have heard it Indian Colonies.

from visitors who have travelled world-that civil, selves, the fact has been challenged reference.

support the amendment of federation, disappointed tions and lose hope for the development of this country, and become federationalists isolationists.
do not say reject-consider­ postpone-I ation of this question we would be doing the right thing, but if hon.

Members feel otherwise then let us reject it at this moment.

We can always reconsider the question honestly .. tion an immediate I do not want to be a pessimist-I ·want to be a cynic-but there is a great in this White Paper and deal of cynicism there is a (.gJ;.e at deal of pessimism in it also.
While· we might say yes and com­ Government mend His Majesty's puttinf,{ we should have been able to rn:v in the same voice that we commend His Majesty's ment for giving us self-government after .Tamaica.

if ,ve become frustrated in our dreams and aspira­ short as I always am.

I want to say at the outset that with the expression President the air and, I suppose, along t:he same line.

I am in favour of the amendment moved b:v the hon.


the Fourth Nominated prepared question before Closer Association mention the word "Federation".

ment in asking us to accept federation.

but in the White Paper one will find the words indicating that we do not consider project passed at the Labour Conference, and we are going to give we have " ?

Surely not.

us in any way or bind us resolution.

we might have to turn rather than Mr. THOMPSON : I desire to be very (Mr. Wight).
He has cleared We commend His Majesty's I am in hearty agreement that they appreciate and we can sa:v fairly and we are travelling to support that.

Govern­ soon I think, Sir, that if we for development on an equal footing As regards the for the rejection in this Colony.

Is it but we cannot say so.

at the momt�nt.


this proposal, and I hope not to opportunity in order to imple­ of the Deputy Member, and I am us, I concern forv.rard are surely myself with federa­ govern­ do notX but I I do or in • ji .. 749 CLoser Association of 12 MARCH, 1948.

B.W.I.

Colonies.

750 ,, until Those who towards Guianese with his L5lani the Guianese pride towards to put things together by them when they return.

until we realize our owr.

weakness.


we have a fixed determination to push Guiana forward.

What advantage have we to gain that is not within our doors?

A�.

'"I said before, have heard .\that the U.S.A. is the land of oppor­ 'tunities, but how many of us have returned from the U.S.A. and made good here.

It is to the contrary.

are here striving are critcized We hear from them that this place is not fit for them to remain.

They found standards they did not create and brand their own undesirable.
things which keep us in the background all the time.

Until we get over that tendency, country, to make British Guiana what it should be, I am sure that no amount of federation or closer association will lift us one foot forward.

It is within our doors, and all we have to do is to get up and get.

All we have to do is to follow the lead of those who have some pride in their country.

long after that our government what it ought to be.

I am supporting the motion as amended by the hon.


Nominated it is just there I �tand.

not think it comes in here.

Much has been said about Jamaica and the West Indian Islands, but I would like to ask the hon.

Members who make capital of that, whether his country compares favourably that of the Isiander home.

I have heard'3.

uoted what the Jamaicans are doing to make themselves what they are.

Is that the case of the Guianese?

Does he remember home when he has gone abroad and made good?
·Has he thought that his position is not t l make a house in Guiana but to make a home?

That has been our trouble all along.

We start to lose faith in this great country.

Guiana has all that we can have, and she is there waiting for devel­ opment.

It is our duty as Guianese to examine ourselves, get nearer home and see wherein we have failed.

I have heard read here that the Guianese have accumulated millions abroad, how much has been sent back here by Guianese to invest.
The West Indian goes abroad, earns finance and sends it back home.

He has that pride for his Island and, believe me, if Guianese can only acquire that pride for their homeland and make it what it should be, I think.

all this talk about Federation would disappear.

ourselves assiduously t0 the duty of put­ ting our country ahead.

We have to do that by our own efforts.

population of immigration, certainly the country will make a leap forward.

.
.

Let us remove the barriers open wide our door and until we take pride in our until we feel it is in our place I am sure that it will not be will be Mr. FARNUM: After hearing the Member, Mr. Raatgever, and that is we do not want of pounds (sterling) I will not at all change Those are the Let us set We want and Our present troubles are irrigation Engineers schemes have been put for­ along those lines for years to What has been the in that respect?

Works have and drainage.


difficulty been started, ward, and the Guianes'i?-who know all about the country have had their ideas overlooked.

come in and refuse the advice of those who have been labouring make the project a success, and as a result there has been failure and when they are gone we have to face the situation.

We have asked time and time again that our drainage in the villages should be allowed the co-operation of those· on the spot.
I am sure that no amount of federation or anything will be able to get us out of this rut else are so supporting I am therefore with us.

I remember amendment.

Sir, it is to one and a wonder why the in the West Indies that Guiana was unable to sell her rice various speakers my opinion, Federation.
Mr. Raatgever's surprising people in the.West Indian Islands anxious to federate not long ago, Sir, when Burma rice was obtainable British there because the people in the West Indian Islands preferred That clearly showed they had no use for us.

Again, Sir, we cannot help remem­ bering the slanderous have been made about our country by the people in the West Indian Islands.

It is only natural that we should remember those things.
If we do have federation and we do sit around a federal table where our -delegates minority, what sort of sympathy or co­ operation would we get from those of the West Indian Islands?

Again, Sir, our statements that will be in the Burma rice. "

- -- - • A -'--- 751 Closer Association of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, B.W.I.

Colonies, 752 � scheme and the possibility from dissimilar problems are entirely theirs and they will not be able to them.
When we tell them o[ _appreciate our ten-year of our running a railway to bring out our timbers from the hinterland, that will to them and they foreign be something will not be able to understand.

What I do feel is that we should try to live in closer association Islands.

should try to get a unified and in return we will be able to accept their excess population give them the right to assist their We want their markets and we: with the West Indian and be able to Customs tariff, country.
,.. masquerading of it means "American of interests between them?

I have in of principles."

As I look of Federation I see on page 10 the author says: as Ambfose Bierce .becomes," and to the Capitalists and to the people of British is the difference front of me.

a book entitled, Politics" "Politics said, "the strife as a contest and question upon this Closer Union, in my mind it is only one and the same thing.

It is merely a ques­ tion of degree.


It is a qu1estion of the concept in which it is held by the various the Secretary To Whitehall, interests.

State, it means one thing, to the vested interests another, Guiana and the British was pointed out to us by the hon.

Mem­ ber for Essequibo With your permission, to first of all point out that it seems to me these several interests within their 0wn orbits and rotating views because of that they have different on the same matter.
Now the concept of Whitehall, as recorded in the White Paper, seems to IDE: nothing more than a glorified tion of several no further to Self-Government.

In fact the Mover of the motion said, and I quote from the ''Daily 11th March, 1948, - Crown Colony, the amalgama­ units which will carry us River, it means another.
Sir, I should like West Indies, Chronicle" of Thursday, are each as Govern­ that the model Body should be If we look in "I felt they were guided bv the idea, not so much of federation, as of self-government".

It does not appear to me that what is offered to us by His Majtsty's ment is Self-Government, which seems to be the desire of the people of the Col­ onies.

As I lock at the White Paper it it is pr'oposed seems that for this proposed Federal the Jamaica Constitution.

the Appendix at the powers wr.


would find that the Constitution with todav are not satisfied Jamaicans that Constitutio�.

reserva­ tionf, and the Governor-General of this set-up,)f' ill have reserve powers.

It will not be a wholly Re5ponsible as is usually Dominion statut.

It will be more of a semi-responsible Federal ible for internal for external • Governor-General.

the Executive ·council.


· The Privy will be left to the and wherein the be respons­ the type of government the Privv Council It has several Government Government government will only affairs, affairs of that in and responsibility For years and vears this country has of our wider attention.

a few days had to be obtained from the times.


Government to a local gentleman because there is no doubt the mining properties been passing through very difficult Not very long ago Grants-in-Aid Imperial to assist us in balancing our Budget.
Now fortune seems to be turning in our favour, that the mining potentialities country are attracting Speaking ago he told me that he did not care to as yet, but he make a statement believed that of this country and the richness properties That gentleman community depend on.

Having undergone difficult turning in our favour, must we go and bring other people in to share this for­ tune?

I say "No."
I say "No."

We are prepared to let the people of the West Indian Islands come along with us and to help them as out a help­ a big brother.

with ing hand to them but not federate them.

all those times and now that fortune is is one of influence and someone whom we can of those the world.

are going to startle We will sh'etch in this "The to the Dr. JAGAN: As I listened eloquent and im­ my mind went back to a various speeches, passioned, book that I once read entitled tvrannv of words."
It goes back still f�the; to the beginning of Western Civilization, Greece, tion.

Socrates, who used to corner his stu­ dents in the by-ways and say to them "Define vour terms."

We have been hear­ ing a lo-t during the last few days about Closer Union and Federation.

What is What is Closer Union?

What Federation?

to the days of the ·glories of to the fathe1• of Western Civiliza­ ., .._ - JJ 753 Closer Association of 12 MARCH, 1948.

B.W.I.

Colonies.
B.W.I.

Colonies.

754 constituted as in Jamaica, are not Council and the Executive Council, presently to the Jamaicans, and I am satisfactory sure such a model will not be satisfactory to tne peoples of any West Indian If 1 may be allowed to quote Federation.

from the White Paper, paragraph states: 22 status of the various units of this pro­ posed federation col­ onies.
If I may be allowed to read from the same White Paper, paragraph - the individual 22: in the individual subject to any modifica­ "The Legislators Colonies would continue as at present, tions which might become desirable from time to time, and would con­ trol those services which remained within their jurisdiction."

and subjects ii - In other words, we will continue as at the end of we are.

Another statement that paragraph states: "Except in the sphere allotted to the Federal Government.
th,-, position reserve oower5 in the several territories would presumably remain as at present" regarding should be em­ in Jamaica, that prov1s10n .

.

It is suggested should be made on the lines now and that the obtaining Governor-General powered in certain circumstances to act contrary Federal Executive Council matters affecting public faith and good government, and also.
after reference to his Executive resolution of that body to certify legislation islature which the Federal Leg­ has failed to pass . "

to the advice of the in public order, Council and a in writing That means, Sir, that the Executive According to that statement, the for a this par­ -Again Now we come of official by this Council, and the Governor of Government.

of the vested inter­ will have a minority will have wide powers.
and so once again I state that to be as they are at the present of what their conception with is is not in agreement of what federa.tion that " ..

In any event it is desirable there should be provision of official minority members so as to enable the Federal policy and measures during the period until full Min­ " isterial Governor-General He will be solely the one to judge what is public order, what is public faith, and Such a body what is good government.
cannot be satisfactory to the people who are today trying to get Self-Government to determine their own affairs.

this Federal body as proposed, liament, members who, we are told, will act as spokesmen Again I beg to read from paragraph 21 on page 13 of the White Paper: Council of this Colony, which is not elected with his veto and reserve powers will continue time.
Those powers will in no way be affected, from the point of view of His Majesty's Government federation what my conception is, and I will not agree with their con­ ception of federation.

to the conception ests and capitalists.

turns in another direction.

certain or the advantages can accrue from our getting that I mean British Indian Islands.

The hon.
The hon.

Nominated Member, Mr. Roth, pointed those advantages facilities, fight against primary producers, is the model which is being proposed by trading facilities, Whitehall, Tariff, unification Council saying that Whitehall common currency."

generous ception is being given to us is any generosity of the problem, all.

It is merely an attempt, I consider services.


for administrative machinery one way or another to increase Amalgamation profits time - to make savings way change the economic set-up of the various to ameliorate which our people live.

The other point about this model i& that relative of in whatever they are making at the present and yet I find Members of this is very to us.
I cannot say that what points which they put out as against federation does not go far enough to the root but merely stops at what better co-operation a common Customs of Public Services, That conception Let us see which they say Crown Colony.
will in no the miserable conditions That is the thing we are trying to It will help the capitalists I should like to enumerate among better co-operation - "Better shipping even in this Colony, It will in no way help purpose to create the Government's for a glorified Guiana and the West to be exolained of the Colonies ty is attained.

responsibili unification an organised But, Sir, that con­ together.

Colonies.

out several as I said, let us say.


some of the on the concept as promulgated and that to the By in of at in a #' • • � ,.. __ 755 Closer Association of LEGISLATIVE the same cqpditions Guiana cannot be federa-ted Sir, today we of which and the same conditions by the Caribbean They Labour Congress.

reasons pcint out that for geographical British with the West Indian Islands.

cannot consider geography brought about difficulty tion as in the past.
Those conditions which existed conditions which are existing Communication, Sir, has to be regarded under two heads - what the Socialogist in communica­ ago are not the centuries today. '

COUNCIL.

B.W.I.

Coilnies- 756 calls "Social Dis­ Distance" tance".

Those are two terms which must be taken into consideration.

and• "Physical The PRESIDENT: I take it, the hon.


Mell}ber wishes to go on for some time, and I suggest that the Council now, adjourn until Wednesday next at 2 p.m. '-- The Council adjourned to Wednes­ day, 17th March, 1948, at 2 p.m. •