Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697724746257.pdf (Fiji)
[VERBATIM REPORT] STANDING COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, LAW AND HUMAN RIGHTS PUBLIC HEARING BILLS Investment Fiji Bill 2022 (Bill No.

05/2022) Heritage Bill 2021 (Bill No.

03/2021) SUBMITTEE: VENUE: DATE: Residents of Lagalaga, Labasa.

Lagalaga Sanatan Primary School, Macuata.

Wednesday, 16th February, 2022.

VERBATIM REPORT OF THE PUBLIC HEARING OF THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, LAW AND HUMAN RIGHTS HELD AT LAGALAGA SANATAN PRIMARY SCHOOL, MACUATA, ON WEDNESDAY, 16TH FEBRUARY, 2022, AT 3.51 P.M.
Present 1.

Hon.

A.A. Maharaj 2.

Hon.

R.R.

Sharma 3.

Hon.

Dr. S.R.

Govind 4.

Hon.

Ratu S. Matanitobua 5.

Hon.

M.D.

Bulitavu - - - - - Chairman Deputy Chairperson Government Member Opposition Member Opposition Member Ministry of Education, Heritage and Arts 1.

Mr. Collin Sowani Yabaki 2.

Mr. Veniki Nalio - - Director Heritage and Arts Senior Policy and Convention Officer Interviewee/Submittee: Lagalaga Community, Macuata.

In Attendance: 1.

Ms. Akisi Vinaka 2.

Mr. Ami Chand 3.


Mr. Joseva Mataisagani 4.

Mr. Dharam Singh 5.

Mr. Yogendra V Ram 6.

Mr. Pradeep Singh 7.

Mr. Vinod Chandra 8.

Mr. Bablesh Singh 9.

Mr. Kashi Ram 10.

Ms. Asera 11.

Mr. Tomu 12.

Mr. Kinijoji 13.

Ms. Alena 14.

Mr. Puram 15.

Mr. Avi Chandra 16.

Mr. Anare Tuayau 17.

Ms. Rusila Vatarua 18.

Ms. Nino 19.

Mr. Mukesh Chand 20.

Mr. Gopi Chand 21.

Mr. Dharam Singh 22.

Mr. Kishi Ram 23.

Mr. Eshaan 24.

Mr. Hiren Prasad 25.

Mr. Kamal Chand 26.


Mr. Rajen Prasad 27.

Mr. Ilibani Roba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON.- Ladies and gentlemen, I will call this meeting to order.

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(Prayer and Introduction of Members of the Committee) DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON.- This is a Standing Committee on Justice, Law and Human Rights and the main purpose is for us to come here this afternoon, bringing the two Bills to you which are theHeritage Bill 2021, Bill No.

3 of 2021 and Investment Fiji Bill 2022, Bill No.

5 of 2022.

We will elaborate on the two Bills to you in a few minutes time.
With us we have the Director, Department of Heritage, and we also have our Secretariat team with us this afternoon.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is not the first time that we have visited Lagalaga Sanatan Primary School, we have been here few times and this Committee has always been supported by your Community of Lagalaga.

On behalf of the Committee, I would like to thank you for availing yourselves in large number this afternoon.
(Translation in Hindi by Deputy Chairperson) Ladies and gentlemen, everything is recorded so, please, speak sensibly - think and do speak.

Feel free to ask questions relating to the two Bills.

At the end of our official programme, if you have some other questions, we will take those in as well.

But our main purpose of coming this afternoon are the two Bills.

We have a mixture of people here this afternoon, so we will speak both, in English and Hindi to you.
On the Heritage Bill 2021, we will be having the Director, Department of Heritage soon, so I will be allowing him to speak to you.

Let me talk about the objectives of the Heritage Bill and if you have any further questions, you will surely be given a chance to speak.
The Heritage Bill 2021 consists of nine Parts and the objectives of this Bill are to: (a) (b) provide for the recognition and management of places having potential and actual world heritage values; establish the Council and provide for the functions and powers for safeguarding the integrity of places having potential and actual world heritage values; establish, monitor and manage the Fiji Register; (c) (d) provide for the management of places on the Fiji Register; (e) (f) (g) provide for other matters that are necessary for the administration of this Act.
provide for individual operating trust funds for places on the Fiji Register; implement the World Heritage Convention; and Currently, this Bill is with the National Trust of Fiji.

As soon as it becomes an Act, it will be under the Council.

I will explain as we go along.

The Council consists of 11 ex-officio members and four other members appointed by the Minister.
The 11 ex-officio members comprise the following: (a) (b) (c) (d) (e) (f) the Permanent Secretary who is the Chairperson; the Director of the National Trust or his or her representative; the Director of the Fiji Museum or his or her representative; the Director of the Department of Tourism or his or her representative; the Director of Town and Country Planning or his or her representative; the Director responsible for environment or his or her representative; S/C on JLHR Meeting with Lagalaga Residents Wednesday, 16th February, 2022 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4.
(g) (h) (i) (j) (k) the Director of Lands or his or her representative; a director under the Ministry responsible for iTaukei Affairs or his or her representative; a manager of the iTaukei Affairs Board or his or her representative; a manager of the iTaukei Land Trust Board or his or her representative; and the Secretary-General of the Fiji National Commission for UNESCO or his or her representative.

Currently, we have the World Heritage site that is only in Levuka.
But there are few, like Yadua Taba which is very famous for iguana.

We have visited Yadua Taba Island on Monday, sighted the village and the place where iguanas are.

We have been told that there might currently be about 35,000 to 40,000 iguanas.

Briefly, on the Investment Fiji Bill 2022, it is a very small Bill but a very important one.
On the background of this Bill, Fiji became party to the Convention concerning the world cultural and national heritage which was adopted at the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) General Conference in 1972.

On 21st November, 1990, Fiji became State party to the World Heritage Convention.

It is required under the World Heritage Convention to adopt the legislative and administrative provisions, to give effect to the World Heritage Convention.
Therefore, the Bill provides the domestication of the World Heritage Convention in Fiji.

There are a lot of Clauses which I have explained to you the objective of it, the Council, function of the Council, the duty of the Secretary, the Chairperson, the Register, Accounts and Finance, management of potential world heritage places, et cetera.

Let us first go to the Heritage Bill 2021.

I would like to give this opportunity to honourable Dr. Govind to explain in Hindi.

Thank you.

HON.
Thank you.

HON.

DR. S. GOVIND.- Since there is a mixed audience here, is there a need to explain the Bill in Hindi or everyone understands English?

(Explanation of the Bill in Hindi Language - Hon.

Dr. S.R.

Govind) MR. CHAIRMAN.- Thank you, honourable Sharma and honourable Dr. Govind for taking us through the Bill.

Now, I will give some time to honourable Bulitavu to elaborate on the Bill in the i Taukei language.

(Explanation of the Bill in i Taukei language - Hon.

M.D.
M.D.

Bulitavu) MR. CHAIRMAN.- Thank you, honourable Bulitavu, for taking us through the Bills in i Taukei language.

As you would have heard, we have two Bills before us - Heritage Bill 2021 and Investment Fiji Bill 2022.

In a nutshell, Investment Fiji Bill 2022 is basically setting up a secretariat for the Investment Bill.
Their main purpose would be to promote Fiji as an investment place for foreign investors because everyone understands that in order for the country to develop into a developing nation or a first-class nation, it is very important that we have a lot of developments taking place and for this to happen, we need foreign investors to come to Fiji.

When trying to attract foreign investors to come into Fiji.
it is important for us to ensure that we have a platform set for them, and that they do not have to go around obtaining all the relevant approvals and certificates that they need.

For example, for a foreign investor, he or she needs a Foreign Investment Certificate to prove that he/she is going to invest in Fiji, the capital that he/she is going to bring and he/she needs to have permission, like on the acquisition of land.
He or she has to S/C on JLHR Meeting with Lagalaga Residents Wednesday, 16th February, 2022 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. go to iTLTB, register his/her company and needs to register with FRCS as well.

If he/she brings in development, there might be a request for an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) to be conducted, then there is Traffic Management Assessment (TMA) as well.
So all those things are required before an investor can start with his work in Fiji.

Also, for a local investor who is willing to invest here, it is very important for them to ensure that the secretariat of Investment Fiji facilitates the process, make it easy and make it a very conducive environment for everyone to do business in Fiji.

So, that is basically the gist of the Investment Fiji Bill 2022.

The second Bill that is before us is the Heritage Bill 2021.
What it states is, there was a Convention in 1972 under UNESCO.

There would be certain places that can be listed under World Heritage sites.

These sites are very unique in nature so we need to preserve them.

There are a couple of them that are in Fiji, at least, three which are potential sites and one of them is listed as the World Heritage Site.

The one that is listed as the World Heritage site is Levuka Town; as you all know this is the first capital of Fiji.
We need to preserve the buildings as it was way back in the 1970s and during colonial era.

In order for that to happen, it is listed as a world heritage site.

Currently, there is an organisation known as Fiji National Trust that governs all heritage sites in Fiji but with this Bill coming into being and if passed to become an Act, we will have the Fiji Heritage Council.

The Fiji Heritage Council will be the one responsible to ensure that all those sites are maintained and managed.
As I have said, there are certain potential sites as well which are the Sigatoka Sand Dunes, Sovi Basin and Yadua Taba.

Yadua Taba is already known for iguana.

Sovi Basin is a forest with a lot of species specific to that particular forest which we are trying to preserve.

As we all know the Sand Dunes is also one of the potential heritage sites.

We thought to visit other potential sites that might be very much of importance in terms of heritage and how we need to preserve them.
There are a couple of potential sites in Vanua Levu as well.

One is the Nagigi Naag Mandir where we visited yesterday and met the community.

We had a very fruitful discussion and we collected submissions.

Today, we visited the Floating Island in Kurukuru, which is also one of the potential sites that can be listed as a heritage site.

Once a particular place is registered as a heritage site, Tourism Fiji then starts to promote that particular place as a tourist destination, to other countries.
So, if we start promoting this kind of places, that means there will be an influx of tourists and increase in economy of that particular locality.

That is why Heritage Bill 2021 is also very important.

It also says about the formulation of the Council, the function of the Council, the principles of the Council, the meeting of the Council, and they are also supposed to keep a register that is going to be managed by the Fiji Heritage Council where it lists all the potential sites and the listed sites.
If any site is to be listed as a World Heritage Site, it is important to get the owner’s consent.

For example, if we are talking about Floating Island, if people living around that particular area think that they should have the Floating Island as one of the heritage sites, the mataqali that own that piece of land needs to put a request.

At the moment, they need to put a request to the Fiji National Trust but once this Bill becomes an Act, then they will request to the Fiji Heritage Council.
Then there is a process that is supposed to be followed, for example, any land that is given out for lease, there needs to be 60 per S/C on JLHR Meeting with Lagalaga Residents Wednesday, 16th February, 2022 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6. cent consent from the landowners and likewise, for the potential sites.
So, 60 per cent of the landowning unit need to put in their consent for place to be listed as a potential site.

Later on, it can be recognised and listed as a World Heritage site under UNESCO.

So, this is basically what the Bill is all about.

We thought if we are visiting and doing site visitation to Floating Island, it is in the best interest for the community to give in their input as well about the Heritage Bill 2021.
Now, I would like to open the floor, if you have any questions, queries, comments or submissions that you would like to put before the Committee with regards to this Bill.

Also be mindful that everything that is said this afternoon is recorded, under the Privileges Act and all translations are also recorded, which will be deliberated by the Committee once we are at Committee stage, so be mindful of that.

Also to note, if you want to speak in the vernacular, you can do so.
We have translators here who are going to translate for us.

Thank you very much for coming this afternoon.

I shall now open the floor if you have any comments or queries with regards to the two Bills.

Whenever you speak, it will be best to give your name, where you are from and then ask the question because we are being aired live.

MS. A. VINAKA.- Vinaka.

My name is Akisi Vinaka, I reside in Lagalaga.


I am a sugarcane farmer; I am a Justice of Peace and I am the Marama ni mataqali that owns the Floating Island.

Bukawaqa is my land.

Today, I am very happy that I own the Floating Island that you have visited this afternoon.

I have one question; if I go to the mataqali and have a talanoa session with the mataqali and they agree that, that place be listed, how am I going to contact you that the mataqali has agreed?
MR. CHAIRMAN.- Thank you, Madam, for that wonderful question.

It is good to see a landowning unit here to discuss on this place known as the Floating Island.

I will hand over to the Director, Department of Heritage, if he can give his contact and how you can go about to have Floating Island listed as a potential World Heritage site.

Thank you.
Thank you.

(Explanation given in i Taukei language by Mr. C. Yabaki) (Question asked by Ms. A. Vinaka in i Taukei language and replied by Mr. C. Yabaki) MR. CHAIRMAN.- For those who do not understand the i Taukei language, I will request if Director can also translate that in English for the better understanding of everyone.

MR. C. YABAKI.- Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

There is a process that needs to be followed when a heritage place becomes a tentative listing.
Before Levuka became the World Heritage site, Government was looking at this Convention called the World Heritage Convention, so let me go back to the Convention.

There are seven Conventions by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO).

There are two Conventions that Fiji has ratified and one of them is the World Heritage 1972 and the other one is Intangible Cultural Heritage 2003.

This World Heritage where Fiji ratified was in 1990.
It took four years to have the other sites as tentative, so it was given tentative listing in 1994 which includes; Levuka Town, Yadua Taba, Sand Dunes, Sovi Basin and Taveuni Forest Reserve.

After all that process, then Government set up the National Committee which is now in the 2003 Act.

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Cabinet established the Fiji Heritage Committee, World Heritage Committee and they decided that Levuka will become a World Heritage site because of its significance in terms of its early history.

Levuka Town was in contact not only with the British but others like the Germans, French and other European nations that were coming into Levuka.

Because of its significant history, it became the World Heritage site in 2013, so there is a process that needs to be followed.
Once this Bill becomes an Act, it is easier for the community to do a submission saying, for example, what you say marama tau that Floating Island becomes a world heritage site or the national heritage site.

Thank you.

MR. CHAIRMAN.- Thank you very much, Director, for that explanation.

Another thing that we are going to do is with regards to the Floating Island and this is something that we speak about Nagigi Naag Mandir as well.
They are going to speak to Tourism Fiji to promote that place as a tourist destination, but one of the things that is an issue for the tourists when they come to particular place is whether we have accommodation to accommodate them in Macuata.

That is one of the biggest issues and that is why we are saying the Bill that we are bringing in - the Investment Fiji Bill 2022 is very important because all those heritage sites are supposed to be promoted by Tourism Fiji as one of the tourist destinations.
Then we need investors who come in to invest in Macuata to come up with hotels and resorts.

Tourists can be attracted to come and stay and those are some of the places that they can visit.

There are a lot of sites in Vanua Levu that are still untapped that can be very good tourist destinations, so until we come to a stage whereby Floating Island, for example, is registered as a World Heritage site, we can always promote that place as a tourist destination.
But in order for that to happen, we need to have history so Tourism Fiji can come and get the information on the ground - what time it was there, what are some of the linkages to the Floating Island, what are some of the myths and legends attached, et cetera.

History needs to be captured.

If you want to promote a particular site as a tourist destination, you need to actually tell the history in a very good manner so that it attracts tourists to go and visit that particular site.
So that is one of the things that we can do with regards to the Floating Island as we can actually get it promoted to other places in the world as a tourist destination.

MR. R. PRASAD.- Thank you very much, Sir.

On behalf of the people of Nadogo, first, I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Justice, Law and Human Rights to come down to this rural community.

I know Lagalaga is very far - 55 kilometres away from Labasa.
This is the first time where opportunity has been given to our people to contribute something as far as the Bill is concerned.

It is a great day for us that we have been considered to contribute on the two important Bills, that is, the Heritage Bill 2021 and the Investment Fiji Bill 2022.

As far as the Heritage Bill 2021 is concerned, I would like to say that this area should have been considered long time ago.
When I talk about Floating Island, it is not only in the Northern Division but in Fiji, a place in Kurukuru.

Only one island is not really floating but the island is moving.

That is the only island that moves around.

So this is a good time for the people to contribute.

I have got two questions, the first is; if a place gets listed as a World Heritage site, does it restrict landowners from making any changes to their place?
For example, the land belongs to the landowners, do they have to get permission from authorities in order to do anything on their property?

The second question is; why are the penalties so high in the proposed law for Heritage Bill?

MR. CHAIRMAN.- Thank you very much for those questions.

I will try to answer the second one first with regards to the reason for the high in penalties.
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That is something that was also raised with us in Levuka - if someone tries to change a particular heritage site, why it is important to have a deterrent factor such as higher fines for them not to do so.
As the Director had explained, it is not an easy task to get a particular site registered as a World Heritage site.

In Levuka, for example, you need to maintain the outside structure of those buildings so that the preservation of that particular site is there.

You need to preserve everything so you cannot just come up and do maintenance work to change it or do a development that might change the intent of having that particular site as a heritage site.
The other very important thing is, some of the contractors might not be qualified enough to carry out maintenance and preservation work of those buildings, so we need to have a deterrent factor because the last thing we want is a particular company coming in to maintain a particular building and then we find that they were not the experts in maintaining and preserving that particular building and they have destroyed the building.
In order for this kind of things not to happen in future and destroy our heritage site, we need to have higher penalties, so that would be a deterrent factor to all those bogus construction companies that might come to the owner of the building just to say, “We can maintain and preserve this particular building.” Because they know the fine is quite heavy, they will not indulge in that kind of behaviour.
So that is the reason why we need a good deterring factor to ensure that this kind of things are preserved and listed as a World Heritage site.

As far as the owners are concerned, massive consultations takes place before a particular site is listed as a potential heritage site.

All the pros and cons are explained to a building owner.

Sir, similar to your first question regarding the landowning unit, we are trying to preserve the species that are found at Sovi Basin.
The last thing we want is for someone to go in and start logging in that area because as soon as we start to do that in, we are basically destroying the natural environment that is preserved in that area.

So, before you put it in as a potential heritage site, the Department of Heritage, the National Trust of Fiji and the Fiji Heritage Council will come and consult the owners of the building or the landowning unit if a particular place is supposed to be listed.
They will tell them what they can do, what they cannot do and what they cannot do in future.

For example, at Sovi Basin, logging will not be allowed because we need to preserve the forest.

We cannot start cutting down trees and on the other side, we are saying that we are trying to preserve the forest, so they will not be able to make any amendment.
Let us say, for example, we look at Floating Island to be listed as a potential site but then in future, tourists start coming in because we begin to promote that particular site, we would need shelter and those kinds of things to be built there.

They need to go through a process - apply to town and country planning through Fiji Heritage Council and once an approval is given, then they can even they can go with that.
We might need an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) as well to show how that particular development is going to have an impact on the heritage site.

We need to follow the process, It is not that they will be totally allowed to do anything but they have to follow the process whereby authorities and experts will go, assess and grant an approval for them to develop that particular place or if they want to develop anything in that particular area, so that is basically the process.

I hope that clarifies.


Mr. Director, is there anything else?

MR. C. YABAKI.- Just to add on to what Mr. Chairman said, there is a process that needs to be followed.

It is not a one-way street.

During the consultation, this will be explained to you”, because the requirement of the World Heritage Convention signifies the management of the place which includes the landowners and whoever will manage the place.
So, you cannot say, “Alright, it S/C on JLHR Meeting with Lagalaga Residents Wednesday, 16th February, 2022 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9. will become world listing as a world heritage site”, then one day you decided to change everything because that will be delisted totally.

It is similar to what Mr. Chairman was saying, when you get tourists, where are they going to stay?
All those will be done through a feasibility study and it is a collaboration between the World Heritage Council which includes the Department, the National Trust, and we will also get someone from the Fiji Museum to look at those.

So, on to tourism, because the distance is a bit away from Labasa Town, where they are going to stay if they want to stay the night?

All those things will be taken into consideration and, of course, the owners of the place.

MR. CHAIRMAN.- Thank you, Sir.


Are there any other questions?

Please feel free to ask anything in i Taukei or in Hindi.

We have translators here who can translate for you.

I do understand it is really getting hot in here so if any more questions, do not feel shy.

We will respond to the questions.

MR. A. CHAND.- I am Ami Chand.

I think it is very good if our Floating Island is listed in the World Heritage list.
I think it is very good for the people around here and the road will also be done because of the tourists.

Thank you.

MR. CHAIRMAN.- Thank you for that comment.

Yes, Sir.

(Question by Mr.

I. Roba in the i Taukei language and translated by Hon.

M.D.

Bulitavu) HON.

M.D.

BULITAVU.- Mr. Chairman, the question from the floor by the landowning unit for the Floating Island site.
They want some clarity if that is developed and the landowning units have some development plans but probably, they are in the process of the many things they are doing.

Also, they are asking advice on how the Committee could guide them in terms of developing that particular inheritance of theirs.

(Hon.

M.D.

Bulitavu responded to the question in i Taukei language) MR. CHAIRMAN.- Thank you.

Is there any other question?

Yes, Madam.


MS. A. VINAKA.- On behalf of my mataqali, we agree for the Bill to be passed.

MR. CHAIRMAN.- Vinaka, Madam, thank you very much for that.

It is highly appreciated.

Now, I will give the time to honourable Bulitavu to thank everyone who have made themselves available this afternoon, to hear and give their views with regards to the Heritage Bill 2021 and the Investment Fiji Bill 2022.

Thank you.

(Vote of Thanks – Hon.

M.D.


Bulitavu) The Committee adjourned at 4.53 p.m.