Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697744526831.pdf (Guyana)
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:I' 325 Members P1·esent LEGISLATIVE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Central).

COUNCIL.

Deputy President Welcomed 326 The Hon.

J. Fernandes (Georgetown FRIDAY, 20TH FEBRUARY, 1948.

Demerara).

The Hon.

Dr. C. Jagan (Central I I The Council met at 8 p.m., the Hon.

Amsterdam).

The Hon.

W. 0.

R. Kendall (New C. V. Wight, O.B.E., presiding His Excellency in the absence the Governor.

Deputy President, of the President, The Hon.

C. A. McDoom (Nominated).

The Hon.• A. T. Peters (Western Berbice).


�- · PRESENT.

The Hon.

W. A. Phang (North West- ern District).

The Hon.

Mr. C. V. Wight, O.B.E., Deputy President, in the Chair.

The Hon.

G. H. Smellie The Clerk read prayers.

(Nominated).

I The Hon.

the Colonial (acting) .. D.J.

Parkinson Secretary, Mr.

The Hon.

the Attorney-General, Mr. E.M. Duke (acting).

The Hon.

the Colonial Treasurer, Mr. E. F. McDavid, C.B.E.

The Hon.

F. J. Seaford, C.B.E., (Nomi­ nated).

The Hon.

Dr. J.
The Hon.

Dr. J.

B. Singh, O.B.E., (Demerara-Essequibo).

The Hon.

Dr. J.

A. Nicholson, (George­ town North).

The Hon.

T. Lee (Essequibo River).

The Hon.

V. Roth (Nominated).

WELCOMED DEPUTY PRESIDENT Mr. SEAFORD: Sir, before the with is proceeded of the Council business may I take this opportunity of the Council to offer you our felicita­ tions on this the first occasion you have taken the chair.
I offer you our congratulations, I trust, ning of long and happy relations the Chair and Members of this Council.

an.cl may I say that in fact I am sure it js the begin­ on behalf between on which The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr.

I thank you Seaford and hon.

Members, for your kind words.

I feel sure that with the co-operation I will get from hon.

Members, cil will not only get on with its business expeditiously its duty in the interest as a whole.

I thank you.
I thank you.

which I am positive this Coun­ but I feel it will also do of the community The Hon.

C. P. Ferreira (Berbice J River).

MINUTES The Hon.

T. T. '.Dhompson (Nomi- nated).

The Hon.

W. J. Raatgever, (Nomi- Minutes of the meeting held on H/48, as were taken as Thursday printed and circulated, read and confirmed.

the 19th of February, nated).

The Hon.

G. A. C. Farnum (Nomi- PAPERS LAID nated).

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL laid on the table the following documents:­ The Hon.

Capt.
Capt.

J. P. Coghlan (Demerara River).

The Hon.

D. P. Debidin (Eastern Demerara).

Legislative Council (Elections) (Amendment) Regulations, 1948 (No.

3) Legislative Council (Elections) No .. 2) ·Regula­ (Amendment -- - 1i�s1 __!118_(!io02_ _ _ i' 1948 20 F-EBRUARY, 1948.
· · Subventions 328 327 Estimates, 1948 ESTIMATES, The Council resolved itself into Committee the Estimates of Expenditure for 1948. anct resumed consideration of Mr. SEAFORD: May I just point out that I was a representative: at the Jamaica Conference, ing those figures I pointed not in any way bind this Government this Council which had the right to accept or reject the proposal of this Colony and in accept­ out that I did or as it thought fit.
MISCELLANEOUS ETC., (11) SUBVENTIONS, MUNICIPAL The COLONIAL TREASURER: We they are used for broadca§ting discu�sions I ETC., that now as shown in to 8 listen (a) Subven­ to the item.

attention to sub-head MISCELLANEOUS in the report, each of amendments, (B) SUBVENTIONS, by the Advisory Motion carried.

not permitted, the amendments but I understand I move that the next Mr. LEE: With respect and I would ask the Council to item 56- ff Guiana United Broad- 1J.
take it that the is being carried on t otherwise move that this subsidy I do uot usually completed last evening, to turn to page 7 of the report of the Finance Committee.

Head XXV-Miscellaneous out, as carried tions, etc., Municipal-be indicated at the total of $139,488.

Head XXIV-Miscellaneous, Subsidy to British Co., Ltd., $6,500-I casting broadcasting service in such a manner that political or views are would certainly be withdrawn.
the talks which are given on commercial programmes, and again political allowed then each and everyone be allowed the same facility.

it was decided when it functioned, , and I should be allowed to be broadcast that that take it that Govern!llent will_see is observed.

that that policy will be carried out I would take no exception should But I think Committee views that no political OTHER THAN MUNICIPAL The COLONIAL TREASURER: I (b) views.
If that is going to be If I get an assurance for the University etc., other than Municipal out at the total of $343,336, of $16,000 and when this Head was con­ by-the Finance Committee I in­ that the report of the Committee move that Head XXVI-Miscellaneous Subvention&, -bt: carried including the report of the Finance Committee.

There are several which 1s listed in the report.

I should direct special provision the West Indies.


Members will see that the total provision for 1948 in the Draft Estimate $33;000, sidered dicated which dealt with this matter at Montego Bay had mdicated that the annual cost, a proportion.

this Colony, like $99,000; sornething tion by this Colony for the next three years would be $33,000, it would be in the vicinity year.
Since then I have tabled a Message from the Governor which gives precise details have been arrived formal motion on that Message because the Cquncil in prin­ ciple of a proportion College thought to it arid remind them that if they wish details which has been laid.

being paid.
being paid.

by British ·l would draw Member's of-which will be borne by fo1· the next three years, was and thereafter of $100,000 approved of the cost of the they c�uld be foiin•d in the Message to debate the question 1 would not oppose it, other­ until the Council has had an of a to call attention to British Guiana Airways, I take it that this increase does not come within the new cor,tract.
I feel not enter into that Government should without the full any new contract If this is only approval of this Council.

to the existing a token vote with respect contract opportunity new contract wise I would move a reduction We all know the benefits from a subsidised air service to the interior, ing to prevent ing into the field I would be one o.f the to such a policy.

objectors ed in the newspapers Company desired vice to the interior rates.
I do not say that Gove-rnment should not subsidise interior, Companies want to.

If this increase wards the new contract deletion for transport but if Government is go­ fi:om com­ companies the field if they o1 $10,440 is to­ I would move its It was report­ that an English but it should not prevent other The next item to which I would like has been mcreased at much cheaper to operat<:: an air ser­ that the contribu­ of these figures Ltd., $45,000.

at.
at.

There will be no an air service the Colony's to be derived from joining and allow of $10,440.

has already of $10,440 and how they attention Guiana.

I College of othe1· contri- to the 67- to a .. is item 55-Contribution ...,, 329 Estimates, 194�- LEGISLA'.1:IVE CouNCIL.

Subventions 330 all the Colonies by the various but I feel that it was of having a Umvers1ty knowing to what extent a West the cart before the horse stage of any • promise so far as .British We have .
been from that money in one I am not against the College glean any information made in that direction Guiana is concerned.

called upon to subsc:ribe a very large sum of money, and incidentally money subscribed will be spent in Jamaica which will derive the benefit form or another.
principle in the West Indies, like putting when we agreed at such an ea'rly without Indies University the Colonies one thing it will be equally send a boy tc the West Indies University in Jamaica as to send him to a University in England, and even if it cost a littJ� more I would send my son to a better University if I had the opportunity so, and le_t him have the best.
I feel that it is merely through at the pre­ sent moment that we have agreed to sub­ scribe a definite Faculties Colonies oppose the annual votes.

this large amount.

Unless we have that the to other occasions would be extended I would on subsequent to area.

For expensive to would be a blessing pronouncement in the Caribbean sentiment to do.

bution to remain at the present and if there is any excess expenditure could be voted on supplementary ate.
figure, it estim­ I see item School, Army for Belfield I take it that the $17,000.

of this Girls' On page 58 of the Estimate to Salvation Army is taking over the con­ School If it means that Govern­ 68-Grant Girls' Salvation trol and management at Belfield.

ment will pay 50 per cent.

of the cost of the new site and building voice in the management would certainly Whereve·r Government expended the1·e of this Council ment.

take exception to it.


money is being should be some Member on the Board of manage­ of the School I and have no Member (Mr. Seaford) Mr. DEBIDIN: I am rather happy to of the hon.

the have had the observation First Nominated on the item dealing College of the W esi Indies.

1 am not go­ ing to oppose the item at this time but I reserve up again.

the right to do so when it comes with the University of the University The COLONIAL TREASURER: May I again point out that this is the time to do it ?
It is no good encouraging the authorities to believe that this Colony is going to stand by its previous ly, and then bring it up at another time.

It we are not going to join in the scheme this is the time to say so.

resolution to support it financial­ Ltd., I agree that if we allow to pass now we would be our scope for debate on the With regard to the point raised by the hon.

Member for Essequibo River (Mr. Lee) in connection with the B.G.

Airways, this increase fettering motion to be moved later.
I therefore strongly of the item be deferred until the question of a subsidy to the Company is being de­ bated.

I formally tion of the item b� deferred.

urge that consideraton move that considera­ l already, legislation, Mr. DEBIDIN: I do not think so.
I at this stage, in a certain to dislocate matters may be of some help and I hope the ideas which· I in a moment may be con­ think we have been committed very much so by the previous and for that reason I am not going to attempt but my observations in training our thoughts .

di:rcction, shall express sidered ber well when Sir Jaml:!s Irvine's Committee came to this Colony.
I was one of five who represented the Queen's College Old Boys' Association and sub­ mitted a memorandum .asking that in the e_stablishment of this University Faculties Colonies announcement, should be spread among the concerned.

particularly.

I 1·emem­ nor have I been able to I have seen no by Jamaica College, Mr. LEE: I suggest to my friend that which, I we should first get a reply from the Colonial Treasurer before we move the deletion of the item.
We are subsidizing lhis service under a contract think, has nine months rnore to run.

I am now told there is no contract at the present moment, but I still think we should put something_ on tlte estimate as a token vote until we 'ii.ave the debate on the new contract.

If we delete the item our air service curtailed, fit to the people in the interior.

would be and we are awa�·e of its bene­ tc, the interior 331 Estimates, 1948 20 FEBRUARY, 1948.

Subventions 333 We have been pre­ to say.

(laughter).
(laughter).

sented with the report of the B.G.

Air­ ways, Ltd., and there is some contro­ versy as to the necessity to subsidise question bated I do not see why we should make for a whole year's provision of a contract one company.

if he knows that is to be fully de­ subsidy.

hundreds of continuing If the whole in this matter.

He is re­ saying that if this item is de­ Mr. DEBIDIN: I must correct the hon.

Member.
Member.

He is under a ,total misap­ prehension peatedly leted it would throw the tompany out of the service.

funds of the Company involve of dollars, of thousands ment has guaranteed many flying hours per n,onth, they would be geltmg something from the Colony so far as service and that Govern­ the Company so I wonde·,- therefore is concerned.

The COLONIAL TREASURER: The hon.

Member certainly it than I do.

knows more about Mr. ROTH: The hon.


Member for River (Mr. Lee) has mentioned Essequibo a token vote.

Does he mean to suggest that Dakotas and Grummans can fly on token votes?

Does he want the air ser­ vice to the interior It takes money and a lot of money to fly Dakotas and Grummans.

der an obligation to pay this money.

to be closed down?

We are un­ The CHAIRMAN: I personally feel I would like of the con­ �nd as the Colonial hon.

Members.
Members.

the remarks made by certain has said, we will get an oppor­ like certain a full debate on the question tract with the B.G.

Airways but person­ ally I .feel that we should pass this amount of $45,000, T-reasurer tunity to debate the matter fully.

appreciate hon.

Members, an"a I sympathize with at the moment I may say them.
Perhaps I agree in toto with some of the remarks which have been made, but I think at this stage we should pass the head as 11: is and rely on the undertaking, can assure you will be implemented that the matter Treasurer, the Colonial will be debated in full.

I quite which I by has entered into contracts Mr. DEBIDIN: Thanks very much.

Dl'.

JAGAN: I think what the hon.


Member for Eastern Demerara (Mr. Debidin) .was trying to say-(laughter) on the mat­ Ltd., and that Treasurer under the old contract As the have expired.

has said, we are now and pay­ but if I may cor­ Dr. JAGAN: I did not mean to cast any slur on the hon.

Member.

There seems to be some confusion ter he has spoken about.

We know that Government with the B.G.

Airway�, those contracts Colonial running ing an annual subsidy, rect the hon.
Member I think in Finance Treasurer told the Colonial Committee us that this item would be defeqed until the general debate comes up.

This is and iE merely a subsidy the question of we are going to consider of a sub­ another contract sidy will not arise.

should continue been doing under the olo contract, until the question cided.

It may be decided to come in, in which case we Companies may not have to give a subsidy.

�at is what the hon.


Meml;>er was trying o.f a new contract to operate as they have The B.G.

Airways to the Company, the question to allow other I think is de­ My unde'fstanding and if I understood that before the recent elections on three unless and until all to that, or at least he re­ The COLONIAL TREASURER: The on this head touched First of all there was the ques­ views were also allowed over of contrary.

I well discussion points.

tion of broadcasting, the hon.


Member for Essequibo River he said he was aware (Mr. Lee) correctly, were views and opinions that political in the ZFY broad­ now being expressed He objects casts.

serves his objection ·political those broadca5ls.


is exactly the position remember ZFY were pressed allow political casts, and in my humble opinion they very wisely prevented from taking place over thei·r might I do not know what legal actions '.we if certain have followed about some of them in arc now hearing the Courts had been allowed cast.

For that reason, deliberately political to hear that the Company is allowing broadcasts; political However, the position is somewhat I think it is not.
as regards ZFY I men- and, I think, sets its face against to me to be broad­ among others, in some quarters It is a .surprise over their broad­ subjects.

any such talks speeches speechi, doubtful handling ZFY to broadcasts.

.... �---·-..

.,., 333 Estimates, 1948 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Subventions 334 ap­ to the I would sum is still un­ as regards the the matters in progress the contract would receive to be broadcast such questions Office in the matter.

to ZFY.
to ZFY.

If that licence the conditions conditions­ Broadcasting and negotiations that the for a licence and · advice from the We have and agreement tioned in Finance Committee Company had applied that we were awaiting Colonial now a copy of the licence under which the Trinidad Coy.
is operating are actively issue of a licence is issued it would contain -maybe they are stringent as rega-rds and also as regards amount of time to be used for public matters, control over technical have seen advice from someone who knows about it that we should also have a modern service, but the more stringent you have conditions the more difficult would become to make the service commercial The Company might find that it is no longer a commer­ cial proposition have to indulge to that of the British poration.
cause in the event of opposition- not say division-this questionably clue, and I have no doubt that when the motion is taken in this Council proval.

I do hope that in the financiai prov1s1on there is some justice Company.
The Company is now operating under the terms of an agreement with the Administration agree­ ment is subject to the approval of this Council-and it is desirable figure to be put in as a subsidy be in relation whether or not there is final approval of the terms of the contract Lastly, I desire to say something about these operations.

It is completely ridiculous anyone to expect that other companies from outside are going to come to British Guiana and run air services to Government at cheaper rates.
the Colony, under present conditions, cannot pay; and of that I am completely convinced.

Subject interior, ·however, that it would be able to pay.

at all and we may then in some scheme similiar Broadcasting free of cost or at the same rates, Another air service it a proposition.

to development there is a possibility while there will also be some itself-tliat development.

I The next point deals with the Salva• ·operations, to current itself.

should that the or in of the as the for Cor­ .,.


Next, I want to say that there Committee in securing Girls' School.

that Government Army to take Govern­ tion Army.

I think I made it clear in Finance had been fortunate an arrange.

ment with the Salvation over the Belfield ment would contribute one half of the cost of a building and the Army has agreed to run this very difficult for only $4,500 that the size of the school does not in­ crease very much.
Lastly, school of course a year; provided there is this question of the Guiana Air­ that the into has to come or, at any rate, be­ The terms of contract with the British ways Ltd.

There has been a great deal of misconception about it, and again we havf' a long speech by one hon.

Member stating contract to be entered before this Council fore ii.

could be ratified.
could be ratified.

the contract of the Committee man, and the-figure in the contract $45,000-is mittee, comprising cil, recommended Estimates of what the deficiency year of operation it is wise that we should put that in be· Members of this Coun­ for inclusion in the as being a re"sonable forecast were set out in the report the amount which the Com­ would be.
Of course, of which I was Chair­ for the current but outside in England, part of its work is by the British by a firm-an organ• in England callecl of the technical belonging that organisation a Air Works has a fleet with which it operates has never been any a p p 1 i c a t i o n from any reputable firm to come and take over the air service now being operated Guiana Airways and run it free of cost.
There has been an e,nquiry isation Ltd.,-and of aircraft charter service of England the greater comprised management of aircraft to Governments and For large commercial undertakings.

example, they manage the operation of an air fleet by a large oil company in Ecuador and they also manage the opera­ tion of the Sudan Airways.

believe paid by the owners and this organisation only provides of the air fleets.
the public should be given the impression that there are two or three reputable mercial to come into British work, and do better Guiana Airways is doing.

'!

'hat have already that are only too willing Guiana and do the is not so.

I taken up too much time, but I expenses are all the operational than what the British It is most unfair that the technical management Of course, airways and misunderstanding com­ - 335 Estimates, 1948 20 FEBRUARY, 1948.
Subventions336 "I' this question form of a specific proposed agreement.

will come up later in the motion dealing with the has 60 per cent.

of the population British Guiana and the British West Indies, and it is for that reason that Jamaica has been decided on as the site for the University.

of Treasurer ot· not is to have compe­ It is only by that means we.

will Mr. DEBIDIN : May I be allowed to I happen to have from the firm to has and from what I have seen it is make a statement?
seen a cor.respondence which the hon.

the Colonial referred, clear that it wants to operate in this Colony.

I arn not going to refer ,to that now, but 1 would like to observe that I am against a monopoly and the only way we can know whether more than one com­ pany can operate tition.

!<now whether we can get services without havir.g to pay for them from Colony funds and provide cheaper trans­ portation for the benefit public.
I feel that no attempt should be made to prevent such competition in this Colony, tion to British Guiana Airways, Ltd., $45,000-I are going as regards aviation in this Colony and whether this item is for bring­ mg peopl� from the interior whether it is for surveying determine other airways to operate here.
Why should we be asked to give $45,000' to the British when we are undecided competition whether it is practicable and so on, or in order to would like to know how far we Guiana Airways, of the general and as regards as regards item 55-Contribu­ for ?

especially West Indian University Mr. SEAFORD : The hon.

-Memo,er first of all and it is only for Eastern Demerara referred to the proposed and stated that Jamaica is going to get the major benefit from it.
That is per­ fectly true, but it must be pointed out that Jamaica is paying 45.4 per cent.

of the total expenditure natural, I think, that that island should expect to get more benefit than other places.

The members of.

the Staff will, naturally, receive their salaries there and their living expenses will be spent in that island.
As regards the question of having various faculties islands, going to find it rather difficult to run a University It is not so easy to get from one island to another unless one travels by air, and it is better to have the University in one place than on several islands.

in various I am told that the Principal under those cancli.tions.

Jamaica is As regards the question of the and the interior impartial.
in this Colony, monopolies; now exploring work this company has that the work done by because that is the greatest I do think that the agree­ because those I am sure it will This work and, to it to a very Bri lish Guiana Airways, when we come to consider ment we should be absolutely I feel, however, the existing company has been of very great benefit to this Colony.

We must not forget the pioneering work it has done, and but for tha� work many of the big companies would not have come to this Colony.
company did much pioneering I think, we are indebted Yery great extent.

I will always recall the very valuable done for this Colony.

The hon.

Member for Eastern Demerara said he was against I am also, and I had hoped he would have used the word nationalism form of monopoly there can be.

I hope he would consider the bus services the •railways are real monopolies.

not be beneficial for more than one air­ ways company to operate here even tmder ideal conditions.
It is quite true that other companies might come here and say they are prepared to operate, they would only operate along certain lines that would pay them.

The Cuyuni Gold Coy.

would say they a•re willing operate, to take people up to the interior.

British and while the company might lose money in doing so they would do it for the bene­ fit of the people in the interior.
They also bring sick people clown-sometimes free of charge-from things of that kind, and they have cnte1ccl into an agreement with Govern­ ment to fly at certain sure, will never pay them.

If we allow another company to come in here and fly as they like they would only make the situation make it impossible rid of them.
Guiana Airways can carry freight but they would only guarantee more difficult for Government and, perhaps, the interior and do rates which, I am ·1 to get The but to· The CHAIRMAN: Is the hon.

Member ________.....

I I i, .t 337 Subventions LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Esiirnates, on his for Eastern Demerara insisting amendment?

1948 338 I Mr. DEBIDIN: Yes, Sir: I am.


The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I Up with the arriving Regulations Guiana Airways, this Government He goes around the of the agreement was here-Tecently­ number of problems the safety of aviation to all on civil has not control Ltd., and about of the post of his advice on the we have as there is only one in the Colony, but General of Ci,;il Avi:1tion.
is the adviser Gcner:11 in the Caribbear, should just like io suy a bnd word on this question British the need for the establishment of Director The Director the Colonies matte1·s.

aviation Empire-he· British and gives the benefit increasing to deal with as regards civil aviation.
to the present had to -exercise very elaborate over· civil aviation company operating there are many more aeroplanes in the Colony at the moment than in the past and there are many problems on which I have to seek advice, such as when we have to introduce governing Colony-particularly as regards there is no one with flying-and who can give it.

specialised At the moment we have not got special advisers, not have ta get one.
We might have to get a programme for the technically designa'ted to come into operation, probably administration for when that gets going we service, will need to have a full-time with technical At the moment we have not got any and we have to get the advice of the Director in the matter.

General of Civil Aviation of mono­ That, I think, is not a question poly, but it is obviously state of affairs advice, which we require one to advise us.
I think it is desirable that we should contribute establishment General of Civil Aviation.

service and we would but I am not saying we will have to get him to take over the side of the civil aviation of · the post of Director if some question civil aviation transport knowledge knowledge to control it.

and there is no towards the arises on officer which is in the · I Guiana Airways Committee.
it because I am taking the to the report of the vc.te against long view in relation British have risen to spe�1k becnuse I feel the1e is a great deal of substance hon.

Member for Central 3tatcd.

I think that putting ihe Estimates putting 1.end to vote ::igainst as I think the debate on the report the Estimates.

should have preccclecl in what the Demerara has the item on the cart before the horse.
I in- like -this is rat11er the motion, like however, The CHAIRMAN: I will proceed to put the original motion.

Sir, that many of us JYh.

LEE: I think you should put the of items 1 to 54, motion for the approval and the11 the motion of the hon.

Member for the Eastern Demerara should be put.

You will realize, would like to vote on some of these items, but if you put the original that and we agree afterwards hon.

Membe1· for Eastern would have to go over the whole thing during item by item.
It was customary the regime of Sir Gordon Lethem that over an item where the1·e any amendment fore the original moved was not put be­ motion.

motion _ like with -the was a dispute Demerara we Mr. DEBIDIN: Are you going to put j my motion, Sir?

it then I should The CHAIRMAN: No; I was going motion and if hon.

1:o put the original Members vote against have to put your motion.

If you look at the Rules you would see that I am fol­ lowing Rule 17 under Debates very meticulously.

has no objection by the hon.


Mern.ber for Essequibo River I would adopt it.

It is that items 1- 54 be put.

Treasurer made to the suggestion If the Colonial The COLONIAL TREASURER: I do object to that.

I think you should fol­ the Rules and put the low precisely motion which I myself have moved.

It to put a sub­ is within )(our province motion for the deletion of an stantative item, but I would not like to put sub­ head by sub-head.

Mr. SMELLIE: As regarc;is the motion moved by the _hon.
Member for of the for the deletion Eastern vote, I would like to say that I intend to Demerara Mr.' LEE: If that is going to be the attitude of the Colonial Treas1.1rer I an unsatisfactory • 339 Estimates, 1918 20 FEBRUARY, 1948, Subventions 340 We have and a lot of ex­ if Government to hon.

Members that we and the introduction of the Fi­ to would suggest go back to the old system whereby item by item is put and adopted.

come hel'e with n motion nncl we think it should be adopted.
The principle adopted in this Council before the Fi­ nance Committee was introduced was to take each head item by item and adopt or delete it as the case might be, and to We found that my mind that was best.

time was being lost by that method, however, nance Committee was also intended save printed matter is going to pense.
But, in order to use the Finance Committee block-vote all these heads, I would cer­ tainly not agree to that and I would ask my brother The old principle item by item and put it to the vote, and I am asking that that system be followed.

Let items 1 to 54 be taken and then the motion by the hon.

Mem­ ber for Eastern Demerara should ·be taken.

If that is not done I would ask hon.· Members again to let us reconsider this question Committee and change it.
We might adopt an item in Finance Committee but when we come here that item might not !

:le passed.

taken and that the motion by the hon.

Member for Eastern Demerara be taken afte•rwards.

of the policy of the Finance I ask that items 1 to 54 be and custom was to take not to agree also.

Councillors to give me some information • I just want drawn into a controversy.
Government as regards the Belfield From what I understand ask Government this school has been already if so, whether the school would not be in the middle of a residential whether the site for and, selected I would like to area?

Ghls' School.

The COLONIAL TREASURER: As for as I know the site has not been se­ lected ris yet.
Mr. DEBIDIN: That school is within area but that objection and I happen to have that not only is the to that, and I myself do state of that the my constituency heard complaints school within a residential inmates of the school are being allowed to attend Primary schools and mix freely with the other children there.

I understand parents are taking very strong, not think it is a very desirable affairs at all.
I also understand reason for sending inmates of the school to the Primary schools lift them, but I am afraid the opposite effect would result on the other pupils if they are allowed to mix with them.

As regards the estimates under discus­ sion I am going to agree with the Col­ that we should not go in onial Treasurer a roundabout way if we want to oppose a particular be desirable way and after it has been considered whole head could be put.
item and, I think, it would to move a motion in that is to try and up­ the we might say that it is a body.

The hon.

Member desires The COLONIAL TREASURER: I think we are at cross-purposes.
In the first place, the Finance Committee has been set up by this Council and is pro­ vided for in the-Standing Rules; con­ sequently, statutory to have the motion put in such a way as not to embarrass him bers and he might wish the whole head or to vote against a particular have any objection tion being put for the deletion particular through the rigmarole the items put under this head simply to make a particular to one item?

I would suggest that the motion J have moved be put.

of any item.
of any item.

Why should we go item, but I would not point in relation of voting on all to vote for or other Mem­ to a substantive mo­ Mr. FERNANDES : Perhaps I did not make myself clear just now.

When I said residential I wanted to be sure that the school was n�t going to be put up in the middle of a residential of the City.

section area I meant in the City.

The CHAIRMAN: I think the hon.

was replying Treasurer to the Colonial that effect,.

;,; Th� COLONIAL TREASURER: I do by the Salvation not know.
I understand considered is many miles, away from cannot give: an assurance would be at any particular hon.

Member is quite right in saying that the school should not be put in the centre of Georgetown.

a site was being Army but it the City.

I that the site place.

The I certainly -agree Mr. FERNANDES: I will not be ---r-- �- 341 Estimates, 1948 with him.

I would certainly to use that because he cannot get an as­ surnnce to strike out the vote.

ask him not .., LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.


Subventions 342 the visitor has taken Mr. LEE: As an official of I would like to defend it in a!1d, it segre­ and I was sur­ when I saw her.

Her mental had been so developed it in this way.

It should as a Home for delin­ in many instances that school, this manner.

I would like the hon.


Mem­ ber to consider not be considered quent girls, becat1se girls arc weak in mentality gated from other girls except those of the school, they would develop ar, in­ feriority complex.

That will not be bringing them up in the proper manner.

I have seen what improvement place in some of the girls of the school.
In point of fact, there was one of them from my constituency, prised, faculty by the Matron that she could be permitted on her own to mix with the children of the pub­ lic school.

That wipes away entirely any inferiority look at it in that way, and the girls are placed on an equal standing with the children they ,vould see the benefits derived from the school.

If they cast aspersions cast on the Onderneeming ference would be drawn that the girls are criminals.
It creates �nd that is what we want to wipe out in respect of thesr: childrcr..

I feel that if they can be given the opportunity to come to the City on a visit by themselves times, they would feel themselves no inferiority complex.

complex.

I think if Members at under of the village, on 1.hc school as is School the in­ that impression Mr. PETERS: I am sorry we have a subject of boys and girls, that is very question raised by my the hon.
Member for Eastern When it come1, to the ques­ gone off in a tangent in discussing this matter.-the good friend, Demerara.

tion of the delinquency you are touching close to my heart and to the: general per­ spective of my life.
If one has any knowledge of child ViYChology, realize the best way to deal with the delinquent is to adopt such a process tion of that boy or girl to the common life of the community a part as to give the child the feeling that he or she is not condemned in a sort of moral or mental lazaretto boy and the delinquent of which he or she is of rehabilita­ one' would to live girl, a perspective fashion 0£ the delin­ to th1= interest and so be able to equip him­ whereby he or she develops inimical o:f the :future and to the community of which he or she should be a part.
The process or the method of procedure in approaching the prnblcm o:f the rehabilitation quent child is the method of evolving sc:htmes and - shall I say - plans and projects that more and more .will give the child to understand that he or she i�: ::i part 0£ the community.

He or she should be trained to live in that com­ munity in a sort of ultra-social compared wii.h the manner he or she lived b<:forc, self or herself days that are to come.
I think the desire or the purpose is to keep the delinquent child as long as possible known life of the community .he is a part.

That is a very dangerous wny of approaching I can never agree with my hon.

friend, the Member for Georgetown Central, when he says we should take good care not to bring the delinquent child to mix with city life, and we should try to c1.void that as far as possible.
We shall be at pains in the long rnn to be able to switch that child back into the life of the community from which its own evil action in his or her childhood may have caused him or her to be separated.

for community the: problem, away 'from the life in the of which and so that or for instance Gove�·nment House or the Park I said nothing about segrega­ or not allowed tc, mix.

I never Mr. FERNANDES: I crave the in­ dulgence of Council to correct my hon.

friend.
friend.

1 neve1· suggested this Home should not be put in the City.

I made no such sug­ gestion.

g1·egaiccl heart.

I do not think it would do much good to Georgetown to put the school in Kitty or in Subryanville, alongside IIotcl.

I never said n.ey should be se­ gregnted hinted that.

I only ask for the assurance that this school will not be put in the heart of the residential town.

I do not say it should not be put in Georgetown with my ron.

friend that they should not be segregated.


My only point is that I want an undertaking not be put in th<:: centre of a residential section.

I do not think my friend was fair to me when he said I suggested segre��tion.

or not allowed to mix.

I never that this Home will or anywhere in it.

I agree of George­ section 343 Estimates, 1948 20 FEBRUARY, 1948.

Subventions 344 to de­ should be restricted girls.

That is to say, gids who some crime.


That is not I rise to The ATTORNEY-GENRAL: of the say a few words on the question Belfield School for Girls.

Many of the spoken as Members of the Council have if it is the intention that the Belfield Girls' SchfJol linquent have committed so.

It is the intention Girls' School should house girls who are in neec1 of care and attenLiun, have no parents willing would like to make that perfectly I would also Eke to remind hon.
Members of Council th:it even where boys and an offence you do girls have committed not say they have been convicted.

them.

I or able to look after or whose p;,,1·ents are not that the Belfield gids wl10 clear.

is part and • adopted by Sir to the procedure referred In those days the Rules • Gordon Lethcm.

as you of the Council, and Regulations If you are fully aware, were not enacted.
peruse your Rules and Regulations which cover debate in this Council you would fiud that they were enacted on the 3rd 1947.

You will !

:ee from Rule 44 Octooer, that the Finance Committee and part and parcel parcel of those Rules of this Council.

The of the Constitution hon.

Member has stated definitely that he will o.sk hon.

Members to throw it • aside as he desires.

ber, being a lawyer, prot1:edure that :m amendment that they be either thrown out or abroga­ ted and new Rules enacted.
We are now by Rule 44, and the Stand­ governed ing Rules and Orders of this Legislative with were made by the Governor Council Council.

the advice of the ,Legislative They were enacted on the 3r·d October, 1947.

So I pass on.

that the he will ho.ve to adopt is to ask I ask the hon.

Mem­ to consider be made to the Rules, JMr.

DEBIDIN: I would agree with as well herring, but a good.

Parents is startling that this school will be that i£ that is the object Vle need Reform Schools.
turn car.not have cause for when they see the hon.

Member for Geo;·getown Central, and I desire to say of this vote I am going to ask that it be deleted.

To hear from the hon.

the Attorney-General at the same tune an orphanage as a home for delinquents, and alarming.

We need institutions for reform generally, not to put the good with the but certainly bad.
You can spoil a whole barrel of with one bad herrings whole barrel of good herrings a bad herring alarm and complaint their children linked with delinquents.

··happen to know the type of delinquents sent to that Home.

After that young girl has become an inc:orrigible is the time when she is taken away from her parents and sent to the ·Home.
That child is versed in the use 0£ profane language, and placed with other children desirable have a big programme work, and there are social services to take care of boys and girls many kinds without having them mixed with delin­ quents.

I certainly and, if that is the intention, reconsideration is that a state of things?

I think we for social services draw the line there of the vote.

I ask for a of so I The CHAIRMAN: I tlnnk the item I would just has been ,vell ventilated.
like to say a few words with regard to procedure.

brothers The hon.

Member for Essequibo I am talking of the same profession as myself.

River to two legal in my opinion and, if that is if one looks at Rule 17 of as the ho11.

Member sug­ negatived, motion be put and passed.

would be to put be nega­ then that .


Apparently, these Rules one would see that the proper procedure the motion that the amendment ti\recl the substantive Apparently, gested and stated last night, the motion for the deletion the Colonial of the original had no objection amendment ern Demerara "That procedure.

item 55 of Head XXVI be deleted."

if the motion for the by the hon.

Member for East­ was put and the hon.


who was the mover was put, if that is the proper I will put the question that he motion suggested Treasurer until the debate.

In Mr. DEBIDIN: That the actual The hon.

the Seventh is not the tenor of my motion.

My motion is that this 9 item be suspended other words, I am not against expenditure.

Nominated I am glaa:· to hear him say that, to the remarks made by the hon.

Member for Central Demerara.

He thinks he was putting I started to this thing.


I think it is premature.

the cart before the horse.

Before Member referred, to talk on.

this item, I referred I think and O The COLONIAL TREASURER: Per­ mit me to speak now.

I think I can meet the hon.

Member's point.

It ~is not prac- 1:-1.

-; 357 E�ti.1nates, 1948 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Pensions & Gratuities 358 would be In their condition.
there are many villages and I do hope that something done to ameliorate my constituency and local authorities, voicing they are finding difficult view of the high dramage and sea defence rates to meet the burden cast when I say that their feelings it extremely and I feel sure I am upon them.

in any fees for work performed of any of his offices but considered that the salary of the office should be fixed at £1,200 per annum.
in respect "The Committee recom­ accordingly mend that the offices of Crown Solicitor, Official should continue oflicer."

and Public Trustee lo be performed Receiver by ope $51; and item 54- towards British Society, 1 would like to object to them Dr. JAGAN: I desire to draw atten­ tion to item 50-Grant in aid to Local Forces Rifle Club, $480; item 52-Grant to West India_ Committee, Contribution Haiti, $24.
I ag-ree that these items are small, but from the point of view of principle because I am taking up the cause of per­ sons who are receiving salaries the Estimates messengers, receiving Yesterday Collecting Officers Magistrates between $24 and $28 per month.

I had tc, take up the case of the under the heading of I notice that persons like and others are only very small janitors in this Colony.

In goir,g through an·d - The CHAIRMAN: Is that relevant?
Dr. JAGAN: Yes, Sir, because we can­ if not afford to make these contributions we cannot afford to pay better salaries.

I move that items 50, 52, and 54 be deleted.

Motion put and lost.

Head passed.

OFFICIAL RECEIVER The COLONIAL TREASURER: I move that this head be carried $13,142.

out at Mr. LEE: I would like to know from when the appointment Government the post of Official Receiver made .

to will be The COLONIAL TREASURER: I do if the hon.
Member who has not know that in the report just spoken has noticed sub-item ld.

of the Finance Committee under this head has been deleted.

This point came up in Finance Committee and it was fully argued with the ·result this sub-item fees for the in Revenue cases) was Crown Solicitor deleted.

of appointment that Mr. P. W. King retired, say when the appointment ,vould made.

I think it was only recently As regards the question (providmg and I cannot that be Head passed.
PENSIONS AND GRATUITIES The COLONIAL TREASURER: I move that this head be carried out at $615,960.

Capt.

COGHLAN: Up to the year 1944 no cost of living received but in that year they got an as follows:-15% pensioners allowance, allowance $240; 10% on the next $240 and 5% on the next $240, with a maximum of $6 pe'l' month.

of the first on the cost of living allowance The COLONIAL TREASURER: If the hon.
Member is going to initiate a dis­ cussion and the Message I would suggest defer it until we come another Member is g'oing to initiate on the cost of living allowance pensioners until we reach another that we to another item in place.

I take it that the hon.

a discussion to that we leave it and I suggest place.

.)

Mr. FARNUM: I would like to know • what is Government's with re­ intention which spect to the report of the Committee was appointed of the amalgamation Solicitor, Trustee.
ations of that Committee Official I see that one of the recommend­ the question of Crown and Public of the offices Receiver to consider reads :- " The majority of the Committee felt that the officer should not receive Capt.

COGHLAN: I would like to of pensions and now.


In Decem• deal with the question cost of living allowance ber last, a Message was communicated to that the cost of liv­ this Council stating ing rate would be raised from 15 to 20 per cent on the first $720, with a minimum pension of $7 per month.

The cost of paid to pen- living allowance formerly 1948 20 FEBRUARY, 1948.

Pensions & Gratuities 360 are 14 public officers and widow and orphan - a total of 21 - drawing an ave1:age of $112 per month.
Among those drawing an average of $140 per month, there 2 widows and orphans; officers are drawing an average of $180 per month and six an average of $220 per month.

I suggest that instead of the existing in His Excel­ lency's adopted with the approval ment:- rates as conveyed Message the following rates be of the Govern· while 10 public "40 per cent, on the first $360 per annum., 20 per cent.
on the next $360 per annum, and a flat rate of $144 per annum on pens10ns exceeding and not exceeding provided receive less than $10 per month including Allowance".

$720 per annum $1440 per annum, should that no pensioner Cost of Living Increase I will now give the rates as exist.in on and Barbados: it is 50 per or $480, 40 per with what has been paid in Guiana and what is now proposed per cent.

up to $720 per 45 per and 50 per cent.

in war Temporary Trinidad bonus payable in Trinidad is 45 per cent.
on-the first $20 per annum, 20 per cent.

on the next $60 and 15 per cent.

the next $40.

In Barbados cent.

on the first £100 cent.

on the next £100.

It will be seen that those rates in no way compare favourably British to be paid.-20 annum in this Colony as against cent.

in Trinidad Barbados.

the rates on salaries compare very favourably have quoted-30 to $60 per month, 10 per cent.
on the next $60, and a flat rate of $288 per annum on all salaries to see that it is difficult C £1600 per annum as salary to live getting and so much get $288 per annum added to that salary, whereas the pensioner gets only $7 per month must get 50c.

:.. added to that pension.

I would also like to deal with which also do not with those I up above $720 per annum.

J fail per cent.
J fail per cent.

on salaries for a man who i� who to my mind was distributed in receipt of $7 per month, per annum, of $35,000 bllt in who up to $10 per month had from 15 to 20 per on $10 is an in­ 359 Estimates, sioners amounted to $77,000 and there was an increase that $35,000 the wrong way.

Those pensioners were getting their rate increased �ent,, and a 5 per cent.

increase only 50 cents per month, whereas crease of $12 per month has been given of of pensions to thos� persons $600 or more per annum.
My point is this: Of what use is 50 cents to a man who is drawing a pension and why should $12 per month more be given to a man who is drawing a pension of $2,240 per annum.

I say the distribu­ tion is wrong.

I went to the trouble computing being paid ,by this Colony, and I found that among the persons drawing an average pension of only $7 per month, there are 30 public officers, 71 police, and orphans, rewards - a total of 222.
Among those of $14 per drawing an average pension month, thei·e are 50 public officers, 151 15 widows an\1 police:, 110 teachers, orphans, and 10 police re­ wards - a total of 354.
Among those drawing an average pension of $25 per month, there are 51 public officers, 43 police, 30 teachers, 17 widows and orphans, n total of 155. and 6 police rewards­ a list of pensions 20 teachers, and 28 police 18 specials 64 specials 8 specials 9 widows of pension 3 specials 14 teachers, Summarising the situation, of less than $14 per month 19 widows and 4 police I would say that there arc 576 persons drawing an average and 731 drawing less than $25 per month.
Amo;g tl10s drawing and average of $35 per ~ month, there are 25 public officers, 8 police, and orphans, rewards - a total of 73 Among those drawing an average of $45 per month, there are 26 public officers, 1 police, teachers, and 21 widows and orphans, a total of 50.

Therefore, there are 854 pensioners drawing less than $45 per month.
Among those drawing an aver­ age of $55 per month, there are 22 public officers, 2 police and 12 widows and orphans - a total of 36; while there are 38 public officers, and 1 special drawing an average of $70 per month.

There are 24 public officers and 4 widows and orphans - a total• of 28 persons - drawing an average of $92 per month, and 'there are 20 public officers and 1.

- a total of 50 persons - 2 - 11 widows and orphans .
r The next point is this: Policemen, and others in the Public Jf $20 who formedy had salarie� school teachers Service and $30 per month, could not be expected their wives and families to maintain and at the same time put something into insurance, so that when they retire from the Public Service after giving � 30 years 36'1 Estimates, 1948 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

]:cnsio-ns & Gratuities 362 Council £1,300 for the pension died within six months afte·r.
to vote that that he asked the Legislative gentleman could not draw, and this Legislative Council voted that amount.

But that gentleman he got that money.

He died in England leaving over $70,000.

with power and influence ordinary when anyone who has no godfather no one to look after him it is extra­ ordinary over a few cents.
one can be, but and assets in the United Kingdon� how cheese-paring one can be When it is for somebody how excessive it is ;,ctra­ of or something oi this all they can do have to look for from the Public Service It leaves an stain on tne· reputat10n I have known that many of of their life in the Service is to go into the Almshouse.

indelible Government.

ihese people from time to time after they retired of the Colony, after having given all their years in the Service, jobs as night-watchmen else.
It has been said before that pension is not a living wage.

No one has ever said that it is, but it is a retiring allow­ ance to a man after he has given his life in the service of the Colony.

A man gives his life just as well in a badly paid office as he docs in a highly paid one.

The only difference is that a man who is working for $30 or $40 a month, as school teachers the time comes to reti-re re.legated There are school teachers be.

able to elaborate spect of schooi teacl-11!rs.


for any favours find it so difficult I am· not asking for those pensioners As I have pointed out what is the use Government� already, who to live .
can only be here who will · had to do, when or question A pension, on the pomt in re­ that a person and policemen pay No one can of Public Works of a pension of $32 a yea•r, as I have previously of this Colony at £1,200 a year as of $10 per month, but we have of Public Works for the simple to the Alms House of the Colony.

was £1,000 a year.
was £1,000 a year.

to the Public by Government who receive from the Government receives such a small allow­ extra that goes to very good of 50 cents per month to a man with a pension people receiving $29 a year.

On the same basis I thi_nk it seems very inequitable drawing only $5 to $7 per month as pen­ sion should receive ance.

The bulk of this $35,000 is put on pensions those pe[!sioners pensions One of these gentlemen a pension of $2,627 a year and is also 1eceiving a pension from.
the Barbados he is also the holder of an office at the moment and is drawing a further sum of over £100 a year.

Surely you cannot tell me that people in that position find it as hard to live as the unfortunate people in this Colony-and there are nearly llOO of them-for whom I am speaking moment.

I am not speaking ful of 30 or 40.

The number of pension­ ers in this Colony totals something like 1025.
0£ that number, as I have pointed out, there are 844 who draw pensions betvveen $7 per month and $45 per month.

Gentlemen, I am not going to take up any mare of your time.

I am.

not askii1g you for any favours asking you to do them justice.

I am asking you.

said, is deferred , challenge that.

I will give you an example as to why Govern­ ment has even thought so.
The salary of the Director this Colony formerly But a man was appointed Service Director 1:eason that that man was past the age to qualify years of age when he jorned the Service.

The Government that gentleman £200 per annum in lieu of pension that he could not get from the Colony.
The Government sidered of salary in the proportion £200, a ratio of one-fifth That gentleman years and his contract another term of three years, and he drew this I just mtervene £200 per aµnum for the whole of that sympathy ·with the .feelings period.

Although of pension when he retired from the I know he is entirely Public Service of this Colony the Gov- generosity ernment made an ad miserere cordum paid pensioner plea for him that he was in poor circum-cost of living allowance.
stances � h._His:.....Ex c:_elle.ru;y__i on account of ill I wish to make at this stage is that we· ernor a1·e_noYL...a.t _the_ head......1.'

Pens.ions three years and again for a third The COLONIAL TREASURER: May he d'few £1,800 in lieu Member who has spoken on this matter.

con-.

the rates of pension to the rates s should receive a better The only point of £1,000 to or 20 per cent.

for three and wishes that the smaller I am in great of the hon.
for pension as he was over fifty of this Colony gave and was retiring had contracted for those men.

I am was renewed for sincere in his at this stage.

therefore fo:r a -har;i.d­ 'I'hat is all at this _an� -=-- of h_e.__G_Qy - : .,.

363 Estimates, 1948 20 FEBRUARY, 364 1948.

Pensions & Gratuities possible sum being given British Guiana.
Why I mention this point, is that in future I hope this Gov­ ernment will take it into consideration to appoint people and wherever which become of local origin to positions vacant from time to time, so that we will not be faced with this annual drain which we have to face year by year.

I do not object to money being given to an adequate pensioners, them.

When the money is going out of the Colony we do not get any value for That it as it is not spent in this country.

to.
to.

As I sec is the drain l am objecting it, however, of appointments.

make the point here time and time again occur priority that whenever vacancies should be given to people of local origin.

With these few remarks I will not say anything further until the suggestior, comes up in the form of a formally motion.

it' is tied up with the policy · I have been trying to Head passed, Finance Committee, as recommended at $615 960. by the and Law.
It is perfectly at pensions which consists under the head is ay for pensioners.
of a number ot payable under cost of an amount for possible But Gratuities" items including Regulations true that included _allocation of living allowances the point I am making is this: There will be a formal motion before this Council in regard to the rates of Cost of Living Allowance to Civil Servants, Govern­ ment Employees and Pensioners another time, and this is not the occasion on Cost a discussion at all for introducing In other words, the of Living Allowance.

hon.
hon.

Member will have an opportunity to and I am afr_aid make his representation he will have to repeat then his speech in favour of his proposals.

done in connection heaa, and there is nothing we can do about it now.

The proper time is when that motion comes up and the hon.

ME:m­ ber would be quite in order if he moves an amendment and it is accepted by to Government.

the Council to g�t on with this head.


I need not have put the head at all, except for a few items, as the services vided for by law and call for no discus­ sion.

If we are going to discuss the question to Pensioners, time.

of Cost of Living Allowance let us await the proper Really I am suggesting Nothing can be are pro­ seriously with this particular Dr. JAGAN: I want to make one under this head of Pensions observation I see you are going to and Gratuities.
unde1· this head, and if spend $615,960 we are going to accept the motion of the hon.

Member for Demera'Ia River - - The CHAIRMAN: The hon.

Member can only make a suggestion !

Dr. JAGAN: If we are going to which I think is a one, I know it is going accept the suggestion, very admirable to cost us much more money� But I am not here to say we should not spend it.
The point I want to make is this: Out of this sum we are going to vote now, a who large percentage had been employed in this country and who are not now residing and, theTefore, fit of the expenditure they were residing spending We:rds enhancing we will not get the bene­ of that money.

If in this country the of that money would help to­ is going to officers the National Income of in this country ADJOURNMENT OF COUNCIL.

The CHAIRMAN: There is the ques­ tion as to what day we should adjourn.
do not know if hon.

Members have any to make, whether we carry on suggestion from Monday or Tuesday, or Wednesday.

I that he will The COLONIAL TREASURER: His has intimated should be completed because after that there Excellency to sit on Monday even­ be quite prepared ing if it is the wish and pleasure of the that to do so.

He is very anxious Council as these Estimates soon as possible, is the introduction and also the debate on the Closer Asso­ motion.

He is very anxious to ciation This completed.


have • the Estimates afternoon to sit on Monday evening if the Members of Council agree.

It is merely in order to , get these Estimates of taxation through.

he told me he would be willing measures ., Dr. NICHOLSON: I think we should continue on Monday.
Mr. DEBID!N: I feel an opportunity should· be given us to perform our own duties and to prepare which have been put up, so that when we meet 'over the week-end commencing from Wednes�ay we will be quite pre- the various motions , ... 1948LEGISLATIVE to prepare matters in the 365 'Estimates, pared to go on.

That will give us an opportunity interval.

taken after the Estimates Fecler;z.tion opportunity ly in favour of an adjournment Wednesday.
I feel •that the subject to be dealing with is one we should be given full to prepare for.

I am certain­ until Council meets that afternoon, but unfortunately COUNCIL.

Adjournment 366 will not be cricket, the Executive and I do not think His Excellency expects Members would like to meet on Tuesday evening.

the general Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday he would be only too glad.

The idea is to meet on Monday, Tuesday and Wednes­ day nights.
Nevertheless I am quite sure if feeling is to go right through -a.;,{!

• The COLONIAL TREASURER: I we will not The must say that on Wednesday take anything idea of sitting consideration business No other business Estimates are completed.

but the Estimates.

on Monday is to continue will come before the Council.

of the Estimates.

will.

come up until the No other The CHAIRMAN: I may point out to the hon.
Member for Eastern Demerara that if we carry on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday we can get breathing space to prepare for the motions.

Therefore the breathing space will come at the end of the Estimates of in the middle of the Committee.

instead Mr. FARNUM; I suggest that you take the vote _as to when we should sit.

Mr. FERNANDES: May I ask, does it mean that we will go on sitting every night until the Estimates a-re finished or just on Monday evening only?

I would like to be very clear on that.


If we are going right through in the evenings going to suggest that we start tomorrow night.

I am Mr. THOMPSON: We can continue on - and then we Those of us Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights and finish off the Estimates, could have breathing-space.

who are away from home, although we are given an allowance, have our own business at home which calls for more than the allowance given us.
Being away from home we have to get back to­ morrow morning, an opportunity to look after our own in­ terest until Tuesday.

Persona1ly I do not promise to be back before Tuesday morn­ ing.

I must be at home from tomorrow.

It is very awkward for us, even riding in the train is harassing.

I promise to be back on Tuesday morning, and .any time after the arrival be available.

and we m�y be given of the train I will ').

The CHAIRMAN: I take it that the feeling is to adjourn until Mon­ general day.
I suggest that I put the question whether we adjourn to Monday and con­ secutive or to Wednesday and consecutive evenings.

evenings The CHAIRMAN: The suggestion is, we should go right through from Monday night until the Estimates are finished.

Question to adjourn to Monday even­ ing put, and nine voted in favour.

Question .- to adjourn to Wednesday Dr. SINGH: These night sessions evening put and nine voted in favour.
have been only introduced the cricket, ordinary on account of we will meet in the course of our meetings.

otherwise: The CHAIRMAN: Personally Wednesday too, and therefore adjourn to Wednesday evening at 8 o'clock.

I like I shall The COLONIAL TREASURER: That true.

The Jdea of a night is perfectly session only arose on account of the cricket On Tuesday there tournament.

The Council resumed and adjourned 25th February, to 8 p.m. on Wednesday, 1948. i ·u - ..,,.

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