Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697639453276.pdf (Botswana)
THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT TUESDAY 05 APRIL 2022 MIXED VERSION HANSARD NO: 205 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon.

Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP.

DEPUTY SPEAKER Hon.

P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP.

(Tonota) Clerk of the National Assembly Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly Acting Learned Parliamentary Counsel Assistant Clerk (E) His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP.

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP.


(Boteti West) CABINET - President - Vice President - Ms B. N. Dithapo - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe - Advocate L. O. Tlhowe - Mr R. Josiah Hon.

K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP.

(Molepolole South) - Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

K. T. Mmusi, MP.

(Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon.

Dr L. Kwape, MP.

(Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon.

K. K. Autlwetse, MP.


(Specially Elected) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon.

K. S. Gare, MP.

(Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

P. K. Kereng, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism Hon.

Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP.

(Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon.

T.M.

Segokgo, MP.

(Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon.

K. Mzwinila, MP.
K. Mzwinila, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Hon.

T. M. Rakgare, MP.

(Mogoditshane) - Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development Hon.

A. M. Mokgethi, MP.

(Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon.

P. O. Serame, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon.

F. M. M. Molao, MP.

(Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Hon.

Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP.


(Tati East) Hon.

L. M. Moagi, MP.

(Ramotswa) - Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology - Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security Hon.

M. Kgafela, MP.

(Mochudi West) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

M. R. Shamukuni, MP.

(Chobe) - Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development Hon.

E. M. Molale, MP.

(Goodhope-Mabule) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development Hon.
D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP.

(Gaborone South) - Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

S. N. Modukanele, MP.

(Lerala -Maunatlala) Hon.

T. Monnakgotla, MP.

(Kgalagadi North) Hon.

M. M. Pule, MP.

(Mochudi East) Hon.

M. S. Molebatsi, MP.


(Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

S. Lelatisitswe, MP.

(Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness Hon.

N. W. T. Makwinja, MP.

(Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education Hon.

B. Manake, MP.
B. Manake, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

H. B. Billy, MP.

(Francistown East) Hon.

A. Lesaso, MP.

(Shoshong) - Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES Names Constituency Hon.

L. Kablay, MP.

(Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon.

Dr U. Dow, MP.

Hon.


P. Majaga, MP.

Hon.

M. Balopi, MP.

Hon.

J. S. Brooks, MP.

Hon.

C. Greeff, MP.

Hon.

T. Letsholo, MP.

Hon.

T. F. Leuwe, MP.

Hon.

T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP.

Hon.

Dr T. Matsheka, MP.

Hon.

S. N. Moabi, MP.

Hon.

P. K. Motaosane, MP.

Hon.

O. Regoeng, MP.

Hon.

J. L. Thiite, MP.


Specially Elected Nata-Gweta Gaborone North Kgalagadi South Gaborone Bonnington South Kanye North Takatokwane Gaborone Central Lobatse Tati West Thamaga-Kumakwane Molepolole North Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon.

D. Saleshando, MP.

(Leader of the Opposition) Hon.

M. G. J. Motsamai, MP.


(Opposition Whip) Maun West Ghanzi South Selebi Phikwe West Mahalapye East Sefhare-Ramokgonami Ngami Okavango Maun East Bobonong Selebi Phikwe East Palapye Nkange Mahalapye West Francistown West Hon.

D. L. Keorapetse, MP.

Hon.

Y. Boko, MP.

Hon.

Dr K. Gobotswang, MP.

Hon.

C. K. Hikuama, MP.

Hon.

K. K. Kapinga, MP Hon.

G. Kekgonegile, MP.

Hon.

T. B. Lucas, MP.

Hon.

K. Nkawana, MP.

Hon.

O. Ramogapi, MP.

Hon.

Dr N. Tshabang, MP.

Hon.

D. Tshere, MP.

Hon.


M. I. Moswaane, MP.

Hon.

T. S. Khama, MP.

Hon.

L. Lesedi, MP.

Hon.

B. Mathoothe, MP.

Hon.

M. Reatile, MP.

(Botswana Patriotic Front) Serowe West Serowe South Serowe North Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon.

W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.
Francistown South (Alliance for Progressives) TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT TUESDAY 5th APRIL, 2022 CONTENTS PAGE (S) SPEAKER’S REMARKS..........................................................................................................................................1 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER...............................................................................................................19-26 Adoption of the National Quality Policy (NQP) for Botswana, 2021 Motion (Resumed Debate).................................................................................................................................1-18 MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Review of the Standing Orders and Composition of all Non-functioning Parliamentary Committees...............27-56 Review of the Standing Orders and Composition of all Parliamentary Committees...........................................57-59 TABLING OF PAPER Reports of the Agriculture, Lands and Housing Committee for the Years 2020 and 2021.......................................27 Tuesday 5th April, 2022 THE ASSEMBLY met at 11:00 a.m. (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) P R A Y E R S * * * * SPEAKER’S REMARKS MR SPEAKER (MR MOATLHODI): Ke a dumedisa Mapalamente.
A re tsheleng dipone tsa rona mafura ka Sekgatla re tle re simolole tirelo ya moso ya gompieno.

We are now quorated.

Good morning Honourable Members.

Let us start our business of today with a Motion.

ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021 Motion (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, the debate on this Motion is resuming.
When the House adjourned yesterday evening, Honourable Kekgonegile was on the floor debating and he is left with 9 minutes 47 seconds.

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): On a point of procedure Mr Speaker.

E ne e le go gakolola fela ka gore normally when we adjourned the House, we already know where to start the following day jaaka o bua.

Kana you will note that Mr Speaker, o ne o setse o tswetse rre a bo a ikopela a re o ne a tsholeditse, maranyane a na le bothata, then you allowed him.
O ne o setse o biditse Tona to respond.

Therefore, I do not know whether you are re-opening it or o tlaa neela ene fela jaaka go ne go tshwanetse o ne o tswetse Mr Speaker?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re ne re tsholeditse, o ne a sa bona.

MR TSOGWANE: Nnyaa, tlogela go re tsena ganong.

Go ne ga bua ene fela.

Why le ne le sa bue maabane because go ne ga bua ene fela?

Ke ne ke gakolola Speaker fela ka procedure.

Ke ne ke go gakolola Speaker fela ka procedure gore o ne wa ema, go ne go diragetse jang gore o eme.
MR SPEAKER: Good morning Honourable Members.

Jaanong ke ne ke rile pele ga ke e kgwa Motlotlegi Rraetsho Moeteledipele wa Ntlo dikgaba, ke le kope Batlotlegi Mapalamente gore a re itlwaetseng jaaka e le tshwanelo, fa yo mongwe a bua a re mo reetseng, re se ka ra mo tsena ganong.

Re tlaa nna le sebaka sa rona sa go latlhela tlhwara legonnyana.

Motlotlegi Rraetsho Mothusa Tautona o ne a gakolola.
Fela the right statement, Your Honour, ke gore e rile fa ke sena go nna ke bitsa Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona go garela, Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Maun Botlhaba a bo a tlhagisa letsogo on the chat a bo a re, “re tsholeditse Mr Speaker.” O ne a setswe morago ke Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Francistown South.

Ke bo ke mo raya ke re, nnyaa, o tsholetsa fela gompieno o utlwa ke setse ke biditse Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona.

Ka bo ke re, Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona, ke kopa o nne fa fatshe, mma ke ba neele sebaka.
Therefore, they are legitimately placed today gore ba solofele gore ke tlaa ba kaya jaaka ke ya go ba kaya, ke ba neele sebaka jaaka ke ne ke setse ke neetse Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Maun Botlhaba sebaka.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nako nngwe o kgona go nna fair waitse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Fa o ka dira jaana ke tlaa go rata gore.

MR KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): Tanki Mr Speaker.

Re dumedise batlotlegi.

Thatathata re dumedise ba Bophirima.


Mr Speaker, ke letse ke bua maabane gore kana policy e e bua ka boleng jwa dithoto le jwa ditirelo.

E bile fa o e bala o reetsa Tona, o utlwa gore e bua ka dilo tse thata ka gore ba World Trade Organisation (WTO) ke bone ba ba kgorometsang thata gore dilo tse di nne teng.

Tota gone fa gongwe go nna le lesika go a thusa ka gore fa e ne e le rona fela gone fa, le fa re ne re ka bua jang go ne go ka se ke go tswe sepe.
Kana mme fa o bua ka boleng jwa dithoto, o bua ka maphata a a dirang dithoto tse.

O bua ka maphata a a tlisang ditlamelo a farologana a tswa mo goo-rra Goromente, a ikemetse ka nosi.

O bua ka melao le ditsamaiso tse di tsamaisang dithoto tse gore di nne teng, di dirwe, di goroge kwa bathong.

Fa o lebelela seemo sa rona mo Botswana o bua ka maphata a a tlhokometseng gore dithoto di dirwa sentle, lephata la konokono le o buang ka lone ke la Botswana Bureau of Standards (BOBS).
That is the main player here.

Fa o bua ka boleng jwa gore lephata le ke lone le le dirang standards ka go farologana le gore boleng jwa dithoto le ditlamelo bo tshwanelwa ke gore bo bo bo ntse jaana, o tla o ipotsa gore kana fa o bua ka boleng jwa ditlamelo, o tshwanelwa ke gore a bo go nna 1 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) le yone melao eo le ditsamaiso tseo.
Ditsamaiso tse di tshwanelwang ke gore di bo di nna melawana ya gore o tshwanelwa ke go di dira ka tsela e e ntseng jaana, mme e bile go na le ba ba sekasekang gore a mme o di dira ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Go na le ditlamorago tsa gore fa o sa di dire ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, e bo o ka tseelwa dikgato.

Potso ke gore Bureau of Standards, kana standards tse when we have set them, a mme re na le melawana mo bogompienong e e ntseng jalo?
A mme re na le dikgato tse re ka di tsayang fa di seyo, fa o bala policy e, a mme does it address gaps tse di leng teng mo lefatsheng la Botswana?

Gantsinyana re e tle re re policy tota kana is not enforceable, ga o kgone gore o ka sekisa motho ka yone.

Policy is just a guiding a tool e e leng gore motho o ka dira se a kgonang go se dira, a bo a feletse gone foo.

Ga e tlame motho gore o ka nna le standards fela tse di tshwanetseng, jaaka go tshwanetse.
Mo lefatsheng la rona fa o bua thata ka accreditation bodies, re ikaegile thata ka South African National Accreditation Service le Southern African Development Community (SADC) Accreditation Service e re beileng mo go yone gore e re reye e re, mme go siame, boleng jwa gago bo siame, o ka tswelela wa dira dithoto tsa go nna jalo.

O ipotsa gore fa re a bo re gasagasame jaana re le lefatshe, re sena bone ba ba re rayang ba re dithoto tsa lona di siame, re tlaa ya kae.
A mme ga se nako ya gore re bo re nna le body ya rona ya lefatshe, ka gore kana batho ba fa ba dira service agencies tse tsa bo SADC, ba di dira ba lebile kwa le kwa, ke environment e e sa tshwaneng le ya rona, totally.

South Africa ke environment e e sa tshwaneng le ya rona totally fa go tla mo dithotong, and therefore go dirisa standard sa South Africa, sa SADC mo lefatshe la rona, se ka tswa se le kwa tlase kana kwa godimo.
Gongwe go botlhokwa gore le rona re nne le accreditation hood fela e e leng gore it will overlook all these accreditation agencies kana institutions tse di leng teng mo lefatsheng la rona.

Fa o bua ka technical regulation, policy e background ya yone e supa gore mo lefatsheng la rona ke kwa ga mmapereko fela, mongwe le mongwe o itirela tsamaiso le molao wa gagwe.

Ministry mongwe le mongwe o itirela tsamaiso le melao ya one.
Ga re na gone mo go bidiwang gotwe a national guideline to ministries le independent bodies.

Mme fa o lebelela policy e o tseela gore fa background e rialo, policy e e tshwanelwa ke gore gongwe e bo e bua gore jaanong re ya go nna le a National Guideline e e leng gore le fa ditlamelo le dithoto di sa tshwane, mme gore re re ditlamelo, dithoto tsa gago di siame, o tshwanelwa ke gore o bo dirile se le se le.

Still policy e does not mention that.


Jaanong o tla o ipotsa gore naare policy e maikaelelo a yone tota ke eng?

Ke go natefisa puo fela, kana ke gone gore fa re le kwa mafatsheng re le mo Makgotleng a Ditšhabatšhaba, re bo re ba raya re re le rona re na le policy e e leng gore ga e kgone le fa e le go diragadiwa, ga e na moko mo lefatsheng la rona.
Ke gore fa o lebile gore fa o tla mo page 26, e go bolelela ka inferior goods, gore policy e e ya go bona gore the inferior goods ga di tsene mo lefatsheng la rona.

O tla o ipotsa gore naare inferior goods go tewa eng?

O lebile gore kana o raya selo se e leng gore boleng jwa sone bo kwa tlase ga se o nang le sone.

Fa o lebelela dikoloi tse re di rekisang gone mo tse di sha tse, ke tse e leng gore di fong kong di kwa tlase ga tsone.
Ga se gore gongwe le ikaelela go tla go kganela di fong kong tota go tsena mo lefatsheng, gore batho ba se ka ba nna le dikoloi?

Fa o lebelela bales, dilwana tse di tletseng on the streets mo, tse di rekisiwang, ke tse di dirisitsweng, obviously they are inferior to the goods tse di mo dishopong.

A mme fa le riana, a ga le ikaelele go kganela bales tota gore batho ba emise go tloga ba tshela ka bales tse ba ntseng ba tshela ka tsone?
Fa re bua ka accreditation, re bua ka conformity, kana Goromente ke ene modira molato o motona fa o bua ka non-conformity ya standards mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Ke gore fa o tsaya brigades fela le technical colleges, o tsaya gore bana ba nnile bo three years mo dikoleng, go sena curriculum that was approved by Botswana Examinations Council (BEC), le gompieno ga ba ise ba kwale exams.
O tla o tseela gore kwa brigades le technical colleges, ngwana o kgona go dira certificate sa three years, o ipotsa gore fa e le gore Higher National Diplomas di tsamaya bo three years, Degree tse dingwe di tsamaya bo three years, tota ngwana wa Modimo o senyelediwa eng nako ka Certificate sa three years?

Mme fa go ntse jalo, a yone BEC e kgona go tsaya tshwetso go otlhaya Goromente, nnyaa ga e kgone.
O ipotsa gore bone who accredit, a ba ka tsaya kgato for Goromente, ga ba kgone go tsaya kgang for Goromente.

Jaanong fa gotwe Goromente will ensure gore standards di a diragadiwa, o raya ensuring mo go mang, mo go bo private sector fela, mo Non-Governmental fela?

Kwa go ene Goromente ele kwa ga mmapereko fela.

Dilo tse di batla gore di lebiwe, mme e bile policy fela ka bo yone, ga e ka ke ya di kgona.

Di ka kgonwa ke go diragatsa ga melao.


Fa o bua ka sanctions tse di ka nna teng, gotwe regulatory authorities will be empowered.

O tla o ipotsa gore a mme tsone regulatory authorities tse, a di na le ability 2 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) of implementing tsone sanctions tseo.
Ke gore fa o tsaya the retail shops tse dintsi tse e leng gore the regulatory bodies tse, bo khansele bo eng, ba tlhola ba ya teng ba re ba ya go tswala, ka gore dishopo tse di leswe.

Ba tlhola ba ya teng ba re ba ya go tswala ka gore dishopo tse di kgona to repackage within the shop, fa gongwe ba fetola dates mo shopong.

Mme e re fa ba re ba ya go tswala ba tsaya dikgato, ba bo ba ikuela batho ba dishopo tse, fa gongwe ba ikuela kwa go Minister, fa gongwe kaekae.
Ba bo ba lesiwa go raya gore… ke gore le fa o ka nna le pampiri e e ntseng jang, but fa go sena the political will, ya gore regulatory bodies di ka tlogelwa operating independently, ga go kitla go nna le fa e le sepe se se ka diragalang.

At the end of the day Mr Speaker, policy is not an enforceable instrument.
Se se tlhokafalang fela ke a legal instrument, go tlhokafala legislation, Act, molao o motho o kareng fa go sa diragala sengwe go bo go tsewa dikgato, tse motho a kgonang go ikuela ka tsone a sa direlwa sentle, ka gore molao o teng, o tlhamaletse.
E seng policy e o ka se keng o itse gore o ka nopola Clause efe, go ikuela, kana fa ditlamelo kana dithoto tse o di boneng di sa go direla sentle, mme re tsaya gore le ditsela tsa bo Bophirima jalo fa di sa dirwa sentle, motho o ka kgona go ikuela fa go na le molao.

Tanki Mr Speaker.

MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke go dumedise mo letsatsing la gompieno.

Ke simolole fela ka gore Tona, ga gona ka fa re ka tlhokang go go ema nokeng ka teng ka kgang e ya National Quality Policy.
E botlhokwa fela thata, e bile re ka bo re sa bolo go nna le yone bogologolo.

Kana kgang e ya quality policy, ba ba dirang dikgang tsa quality, e under ISO-9000.

Ke yone e e buang gore quality ke eng, e tshwanetse gore e bo e ntseng jang.

Go tswa fa ka fa tlase ga ISO-9000 go na le bo point one, fela jalojalo.

Jaanong ke batla gore rraetsho jaaka ke go eme nokeng jaana, ke go gakolole fela, ke go tsaya ke go isa kwa dikgannyeng tse dingwe di tshwanang le tsa brigades.
Ke re kana mo bogologolong ke ne ke le mookamedi wa brigades, mme bana ba rona ba ne ba pasa go na le quality e e kwa godimo thata.

Go na le matlo mo Palapye a re a agileng, a batho ba ba ntsi a Bo Rre Sekwababe, dihotele tsa Bo Rre Billy, bana ba aga, ba bo ba rulela.

Mme ba dira Trade Test C. Fa e sale fela gotwe jaanong go tlaa dirwa di Trade Test B... HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... MR RAMOGAPI: Heela!

Tona ga a tsenetsene batho ganong jaana, o tlaa tshegwa ke batho.
Go bo go raya gore Minister jaanong boleng bo felela bo ya kwa tlase fa re ntse re tsweletse.

Jaanong policy e e tshwanang le e fa e ka diragadiwa, e ka kgona go bona gore tota re fositse fa kae ka gore bana ba kile ba bo ba aga matlo, ba bo ba a fetsa.

Go simolola fela kwa bo Swaneng ka nako ya ga Van Rensburg, e ne e ntse e le kgang e gore go na le mo go neng go bitswa gotwe training with production.

Production eo bana ba ne ba aga matlo, ba bo ba fetsa.
Gompieno jaana bana ba tsena sekole, ba bo ba fetsa ba dira National Craft Certificate (NCC) se setonatona mme ba sa itse sepe se se kalo ka lebaka la gore tota Puso ya rona jaanong e fapogile tsela.

Rraetsho, kgang e re go eme nokeng mme gongwe e ka tla ya re thusa mo mathateng a thuto a a kanakana a re mo go one; re mo bothateng.

Kgang e nngwe e e gakgamatsang e le quality mo thutong, kana fa o bona ntlha e nngwe bana ba palelwa jaana ke gore Botswana is confused.
Ga a itse whether to adopt system ya Germany kana ya Botswana Technical Education Programme (BTEP), or to accept system ya British; she is confused.

Ka nako ya rona fa re santse re tsena sekole re dira engineering, re ne re dira system ya British ya bo City and Guilds.

E rile fa go ntse go tsweletse, gatwe jaanong a go dirwe system ya Germany, e e neng e tla ka bo NCC, e re neng ra bona o kare e botoka e dira sengwe.

Mo tseleng tsela ya tsena mo sekgweng.


Gompieno jaanong ke mo gotweng matters worse, go dirwa system gatwe ke BTEP.

BTEP yoo ke gore ke mo lefifing fela ga gona syllabus, it is not accredited.

Bana ba tsena sekole ba simolola kwa go first year, ba bo ba fetsa kwa technical college go sena accreditation epe.
Barutabana ba re rona ga re a hirelwa go dira accreditation processes …(Inaudible)… Dilo tse Tona, ga re o di sekaseke, o bone gore tota fa re le fa jaana, re bo re tsenelela mo thutong go bona gore re dira mo go lebaneng.

Se sengwe Tona ke santse ke le mo thutong, ba Botswana Qualifications Authority (BQA) ke sphaza fela.

Ga go a siama gore ba bo ba ntse jaana.

Ke sphaza e le bone ba itirang gore ba nne jalo ka gore molao o ba file dithata.
Se se diragalang ke gore go tlaabo go raya gore jaanong fa motho a dirile course gotwe it is accredited, fa a tswa gone fa a ne a ithuta booki, go tswa foo ba beela gore course eo is accredited, ba re re go dirisa interview gape ya gore mme se o neng o se ithuta ke sone.

Dilo tse fela tse di kgotlela boleng jwa thuto ka gore ga gona authorities tse e leng gore are empowered mme e bile di tsaya dithata gore tse kana ke tsa rona.

A re lebelele dilo tse.


3 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) Tona, kana fa re bua ka quality, systems must be in place.

Go nne le measurements tse di siameng sentle gore tota fa re re re dira pipe e, e bo e ntse jaana.
Gompieno tse re di bonang; pipes tse di rekisiwang mo Makuleng, ga ke itse gore gatwe ke eng, dishopo tse tsa maIndia, o tlaa fitlhela e le gore galvanised pipes e phatloga fela… MR SPEAKER: Dishopo tsa batswakwa Honourable Ramogapi.

MR RAMOGAPI: Dishopo tsa batswakwa, ke a leboga mogolole, malome Speaker.

Ke mathata a a gakgamatsang gore jaanong Botswana e nna a dumping site mo e leng gore o reka selo boturu, kamoso se senyegile.

O reka koko e e leng gore ke ka e ja ya nna le tatso.
Go na le selo rraetsho fa ke taboga ka bonako ke tsena mo go tsa temothumo ka quality ya teng, gatwe Genetic Modified Foods.

Dijo tse ke tse e leng gore di dirwa ka melemo, o bo o fitlhela e le gore mango wa teng o mokimakima, koko ke gore serope sa teng se feta le sa yone turkey tota.
O ipotsa gore ke gore ke ga mofuta mang, kante dilo tse di a kentiwa go bo go boduloga mme kamoso di tsenya Batswana bolwetse, le bone ba a boduloga fela ka yone mekento e. Tona, dilo tse a ko o di ele tlhoko thata o tsentse leitlho kwa tengteng, le le ka thusang Batswana.

Ke lebetse ntlha ya quality gore e botlhokwa thata gore e re fa re e lebeletse, re bo re neela Batswana gore ba dire golo mo go bitswang gotweng ke self-inspection.
Mo go self-inspection, re ithuta mo lefatsheng la Finland ka gore mo education, ke le e leng gore the systems are in place go bona gore kana syllabus fa ke ruta, e tshwanetse gore e bo e le teng.

Go tshwanetse go bo go na le golo mo gotweng ke breakdown ya syllabus and tests maybe every fortnightly and monthly, re bo re bona gore tota fa re re ngwana can perform se, o ka se dira mo nakong e e kae.
E seng mo e leng gore gompieno jaana ke gore ngwana o tlaabo a bala Standard 1, a bo a tsamaya fela a ya go fetsa Standard 7 gotwe jaanong is being tested mo go one hour.

O kgona go bona gore tota re timetse labofelo, ngwana o ka bo a nnile a tsamaya being tested jalo.

Rraetsho, kgang e nngwe e Batswana ba lelang ka yone ke ya ditena.

Batho fa ba reka ditena, motho o tlaabo a re setena ke P7 sa six inch ke e fa sekai.
Yo mongwe a re setena ke P7, yo mongwe o dirile quality yotlhe e e tlhokafalang gore setena se ke se dirile jaana le jaana; ke tsentse semente le motlhaba o o kana.

Yo mongwe rra setena se fa o se reka ke biscuits fela; kamoso se a thubega fela mme ga o ka ke wa boela kwa go ene o re kana setena ke se rra se thubile ntlo ya me.

O aga ntlo e tona mme go na le dilo tse di kalang ditena gore… rona nako e re neng re tsena sekole, re ne re itse gore go na le golo gatwe ke bo MPA.
O kgona gore o thube setena se o itse gore ke bo 14 MPA, 12 MPA; ke setena se e leng gore se ka dirisiwa.

Gompieno ke gore le fa e le tsone tsa paving tse di rekwang ke Goromente, go tsenngwa paving letsatsi leno, kamoso e bolawa ke nkokomane fela e a kokomoga.

Dilo tsa ga Domkrag!

Nnyaa Domkrag, a ko le leseng go bolaisa ditsela dinkokomane, dikago are cracking ka lone lebaka la gore tota ga gona quality.

A quality e rraetsho e nne teng.

E bile gape go na le kgang ya warranty.


Ga re ka ke ra dira quality go sena warranty.

A e re mo policy ya gago rra o gatelele thata dikgang tsa warranty gore mme morago ga malatsi kana dingwaga tse kana, tsela e e tshwanetse e bo e ntse e siame.

Morago ga nako e e kana, ntlo e e tshwanetse e bo e ntse e siame.

Fa re ka dira jalo, re ka ya golo gongwe ka dikgang tsa bo warranty le guarantees tse di neelwang Batswana.
E seng mo gompieno o rekang cell phone, o bo o utlwa gotwe guarantee ya teng ke three days.

Three days o tlaabo o dirisitse phone leng?

Fa o santse o e tsenya molelo (charging), gatwe e bile guarantee e fedile.

Ke dilo tse e leng gore Batswana ba jewa ntsoma ka tsone Tona.

Re go kopa rraetsho gore re eme nokeng, mme o ye go diragatsa molao o jaaka re go eme nokeng jaana.

O se ka wa ya go nna fela, o bo o bola fale go sena se se ka dirwang.
Kgang e e botlhokwatlhokwa ke gone gore, re bo re na le bo checks and balances.

Re itse gore quality is a process, go na le reviews gore ka nako ya gore we are reviewing gore golo mo re ntseng re go dira mo, re go dira sentle.

Le mongwe le mongwe fela fa a batla go tla to check, a bo a ka kgona to do so.

Le ba BOBS, ba bo ba kgona gore ba tsene mo mafelong ba bone gore a mme tota kgang e re e buang e, ke yone.
Tona, re go eme nokeng ka sengwe le sengwe mme re a go kopa Mokgatla wa ga rona, a ko o ye go direla Batswana sentle ka policy e jaaka o bona re go eme nokeng ka dipalo tse di kanakana jaana.
Se se supa fa e le gore tota re rata lefatshe la rona mme fela tota bagarona ba ga Domkrag ka fa re ba itseng ka teng, ba a bo ba ya go e sokamisa go sala o sa itse gore go diragetse jang, gotwe ga gona le bone who can implement policy 4 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) e. A re itseng gore policy e tota fa re ka e tsaya fela ka authorities tse jaaka o bua and implement, ba bona gore go a diragadiwa, there is inspection, re ka ya golo gongwe.
Gompieno fa re tsaya buses tse ditona Mr Speaker, tsa di fong kong, bus e tla fela mme fa o re o a e tsaya e senyegile mme ga gona fa o ka e latlhelang teng.

Can you imagine?

Re mo mathateng a a gakgamatsang a tota re batlang gore dilo di dirwe sentle.

Fa gongwe o reka koloi kwa Motor Centre, fela fa o e reka go kwadilwe gotwe peterolo; Fortuners tsone tse di tlileng tse, di dirisa fuel mme fa o ya fale le fale gatwe e fedile.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nako ya gago e tšhaile.


MR SPEAKER: A ko o mo nkgakololele.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ehe!

E tšhaile?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gape ga o bue sepe, o kare o bua ka dilo tsa Bophirima fela.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ao!

Kana wena o a bo o tla o gogile dilo tsa gago, jaanong o bua dilo tsa gago.

MR SPEAKER: O senya gone foo, o ne o mo gakolotse sentle gore nako ya gagwe e tšhaile.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Akere o setse a bua ka Domkrag, o e tsenya fa e sa tlhokafaleng teng go na le gore a itebaganye le… MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Members.

Honourable Member for Gaborone North.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, letsogo la me le a bonala?

MR SPEAKER: Le a bonala.

Akere tumalano ya rona fa le ntheile la re ke tseye yo o ka fa molemeng, le yo o ka fa mojeng, jaanong… HONOURABLE MEMBER: I just wanted to check gore a le a bonala.

Ga gona mathata Mr Speaker.


MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Francistown South, le teng Morena wa me.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you sir.

MR SPEAKER: Fa Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Gaborone Bokone a fetsa, go tlaabo go tsena wena ka tlotlo le tshisimogo e e tletseng masisi a a seng kana ka sepe.

MR BALOPI (GABORONE NORTH): Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke go dumedise, ke go leboge go mpha sebaka.

Ke dumedise Batlotlegi le Batswana kwa gae le ba Gaborone North.
Rraetsho, gongwe tlaa ke simolole fela ke re ke eme nokeng Tshutiso e e tsileng ka Tona Kgafela, e a re bayang pele National Quality Policy for Botswana.

Gongwe re simolole fela ka gore, ke leboga thata ka gore tse re di ipeileng pele re le lefatshe, tse re di beileng pele Batswana re le Puso e e busang, ke tse e leng gore di ne di tlhokana le gore a tle ka Tshutiso e e maleba e e tshwanang le yone e ya quality policy ya Botswana.
Ke bua jaana ka gore, fa re bua ka quality policy, re bua ka go kwala maikaelelo a a re letlang kante a re amanya segolobogolo le maikaelelo a rona re le lefatshe go isa lefatshe le kwa pele, kante ka sejatlhapi ke gore this quality policy is a statement that aligns our mission, our vision and our intent as a country.
Re a itse gore re setse re na le ponelopele ya lefatshe ya Tebelopele ya 2036 e e leng gore ke yone e re ka e buang ka sejatlhapi ke re it is our strategic intent or direction; yone this vision.

Gape re setse re na le maikaelelo a gore re batla go ntsha lefatshe le mo go reng le bo le laolwa kante le ntse le tsamaisiwa ke ditswammung, kante ke the resource- based economy go e isa kwa the knowledge-based economy, e e leng gore ke yone strategic vision ya rona kante our strategic direction.
Go ne go ka se ke go kgonege gore re tsamaise dilo tse re sena se re se kwadileng e le maikaelelo gore re ya go di tsamaisa jang gore re nitamise mogopolo le moko mo go tsone.

Fa re bua ka knowledge economy, re ya go felela re tshwere dikgang tsa maloba, tse ke mo galaletsang gape gore ke a bona gore o na le thulaganyo ya go lomaganya Ditshutiso tse a tlang le tsone gore a tle a fitlhelele golo gongwe.
Maloba Tona o ne a santse a re baya pele ka Intellectual Property (IP) Policy e a neng a tsile ka yone, e e leng gore ke yone e e yang go kgokgoeletsa yone strategic intent ya lefatshe go ya kwa pele.

Jaanong gompieno o tla ka quality policy ya lefatshe, mo go supang gore maikaelelo tota jaaka go tlhola go kgalwa, le ba bangwe ba bua gore o tlaa fitlhela e kete ga re tlhaloganye gore letsogo la moja le dira eng, le la molema le dira eng.
Ke sone se ke batlang gore ke mo galaletse, e bile ke mo rotloetse gore ke a bona gore tota lephata la gagwe le ikaeletse go bona gore this very big value proposition e re e neetseng Batswana ya gore re batla go tswa mo go tsamaiseng lefatshe le ka tse re ntseng re tsamaisa ka tsone tsa ditswammung, go ya go 5 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) le tsamaisa ka la dikitsokitso, jaanong o tla ka gone gore re tle re itse gore what are the processes, re ya go tsamaya jang gore re nitamise gore kwa bofelong, tse re tlaabong re di dira tsa dikakanyetso, jaaka re bua ka knowledge economy, ke tse di ka amogelesegang, ra kgona gore re nne le mo re go bitsang licences jalojalo.
Diteseletso tsa gore re kgone gore re bo re ka ntsha dikitso tse tsa rona tse, ra di somarela gore di dirisiwe ke ba bangwe, ba bona gore tota re ne re setse ditshetlana tse di ntseng jang morago.

Fa re bua ka patents tse di tsamaelanang le yone Intellectual Property (IP), di tsamaelana le yone this quality assurance, this quality policy.

So, ke a bona gore go raya gore e le ruri o ya kwa pele jang.

accepted globally.
accepted globally.

Jaanong ka gore re setse re na le lerala leo la diteemane tsa rona tse di neng di tswa gone fa, re tshwanetse re ye kwa pele gape re sale one motlhala o gore lefatshe le amogele dikitso tsa rona, ba itse gore ke tse di tswang kwa boleng jo e leng gore bo ne bo remeletse mo lefatsheng le le ntseng le tsamaisa dilo sentle di dirisa ditswammung tsa lone go aga lefatshe le go aga motho go ya kwa pele.
Ka jalo, ke tsaya gore fa ba ntse ba bona le bone ba mafatshefatshe le ba re dirang le bone, re ntse re aga megopolo e re e agang e, ba tlaa bona gore maikaelelo a rona it was not just by mistake gore our diamonds were used for developments of the country and the people of the Republic of Botswana.
Re tshwanetse re tlhaloganye gore, re le Batswana, gore policy e e tle e kgone gore e re solegele molemo, yone ya quality e, ke gore the productivity blueprint ya rona, e ke tsayang gore Tona Shamukuni o ya go tla ka yone a e re baya pele jaaka a setse a re solofeditse, ke tsone tse di tsamaelanang le dikgang tsone tse ka gore di a neelana.

Kwa bofelelong gore re tle re kgone gore re nne le quality e e rileng, ke gore productivity e bo e kgona gore e nne part of our Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA).
Ke gore e nne boleng jwa rona gore nako le nako fa o dira selo, o tshwanetse gore o itse gore o se dira gore se nne le maduo a a rileng, a a tlaa kgonang gore a se kgarameletse go ya kwa pele gore se tle se kgone gore se ntshe maduo a a bonalang, a a ka go letlang gore dikakanyo le dikeletso tsa gago o di baakanye sentle, di tle di elediwe ke ba bangwe ba ba neng ba se teng, kante ba ba neng ba sa itse gore o akantse eng.

Fa o ba baya pele mogopolo one o, ke dilo tse e leng gore di a tsamaelana.
So policy e ya quality ya Botswana plus the productivity blueprint, you cannot separate them, for us to be able to achieve that which we want to achieve.

What we want to achieve is to build competitiveness gore standards tsa rona batho ba re itse ka dilo tse di kwa godimo.

Bogologolo e ne e re batho fa ba santse ba tsena dikole kwa mafatsheng, e ne e re fa o tsile o rekile sekipara kwa mafatsheng, o bo o tsamaya o se bolelela batho gore ke sa mafatshe se, ga se se se dirwang mo Botswana.
So le rona re batla gore batho e re fa ba tshwere tsa rona dithoto, jaaka ba ntse ba itse ka diteemane, gore re berekele mo diteemaneng tsa rona tse re ntseng re di dira, e bile di amogelesega, go itsiwe gore ke diteemane tse di nang le quality e e rileng ka gore ga se diteemane tse di neng di dirisiwa go kgokgontsha kante go kgaoganya lefatshe kante go lwa, e ne e le tse di godisang serodumo sa motho le sa lefatshe.
Ke sone se e leng gore they were taken as quality diamonds to be Ka jalo, ke a go galaletsa gore policy e, re a e rotloetsa, e bile ke e eme nokeng ka gore e tlaa kgona gore fela jaaka re itse mo dikomponeng kante le teng mo Pusong fa o tsena mo ofising nngwe le nngwe, go na le mo gotweng vision, mission, le mo gotweng values.
Fa o botsa batho ka these mission, vision and the values, or the statement of intents, o tlaa fitlhela e le gore dilo tse tsotlhe tse, motho ga a kgone go di bua fa a le mo ofising eo ka gore ke mokwalo fela o o beilweng gone foo.

Fa re simolola re logetsa gore Motswana mongwe le mongwe a itse gore quality should be everything to him, o tlaa simolola go itse gore what is their intention as an organisation, as a business, as a person.
O tlaabo o kgona go itse gore fa o re values tsa gago ke setho, bonatla, le go dira le ba bangwe jalojalo, o a bo o raya eng.

Fa o re your vision is to achieve a certain standard by certain time, o tlaabo o itse gore this quality policy e raya eng go go rotloetsa gore go nne jalo.
E tlaa re kwa bofelelong, dikago tsa rona, le dilo tsa rona tsotlhe tse re di dirang, di bo di kgona go ngokela batho jaaka o bona mafatshe mangwe a ikaegile segolobogolo ka dikago fela because ba ne ba tsena mo goreng mafatshe a tshwana le Greece fa o bona ditso tsa bogologologolo di ntse di somaretswe, e bile e le tsone tse di tsenyang letseno le le rileng, dingwaga le pele ga Jeso a tsalwa, ke yone the quality process e ba e setseng morago ya go somarela ditsabone le tse dingwe tse e leng gore di tshwanetse gore di ba ungwele mo tsamaisong go ya kwa pele.
Ka jalo, ke dumela gore fa re dumalane, jaaka ke dumalana le wena ka kgang yone e, e tlaa kgona gore e re ise kwa pele re le lefatshe le e leng gore re itsiwe re le dinatla tse di tseneletseng.

Ga go reye sepe gore re bo re bua ka yone gompieno re sa itebaganye le gore bogologolo go ne go diragala eng pele ga tsa sesha di le teng.
Re tshwanetse gore re kgone gore re nne mo go reng fa re bua ka quality policy jaana, re boele gape fa re neng re tlhola re bua ka bo indigenous 6 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) knowledge systems, ka fa go neng go agiwa matlo ka dipolwana ka teng, ka fa go neng go dirwa ditlhomeso ka teng, ka fa go neng go kgabisiwa ka teng ka mebu e e neng e tsewa mo lefatsheng, e se dipente tse re di bonang gompieno.
Gore that quality, which still exists right now, how can we package it, ke e fa e le sekai, to be able to say fa re bua ka quality in as far as how we are as Batswana re ka dirang dilo ka teng, o kgona gore o bo o boa o ya go bona gore ke eng le gompieno jaana matlo a bo rraarona mogologolwane a santse a eme ka dinao, a mangwe le fa e le matlotla, mme a kgona go bona gore a ne a dirilwe go tlhoafetswe, gore go ne go dirwa jang.
You set the standard and the understanding ya tsone dilo tse di ntseng jalo, o bo o kgona gore jaanong o ye go di baakanya o di tsenye mo e leng gore di tsamaelana le mekwalo e e kwalwang gore go dirwa jang, re bo re tla re kgona gore standards tsa rona di bo di kgona gore batho ba di tlhaloganye, e bo e nna an alternative way ya go aga, e re kgonang gore re e rekisetse mafatshe a mangwe fela jaaka le rona re rekile ka fa bone ba dirang ka teng kwa mafatsheng a bone.
Ka jalo, ga ke batle gore ke bue thata kgang e ka gore ultimately, we will be positioning ourselves as a very solid country e go tlaabong go bonwa quality mo go yone which is to a larger extent branding ourselves with high quality products and services re le lefatshe la Botswana and that will remain our value proposition.

Le Botswana Investment and Trade Centre (BITC) fa ba ya go rekisa, they will be selling something that is very tangible, can be seen and attested to.
Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke ema nokeng this policy.

Thank you.

MR MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke rata go lebogela gore mo nakong ya gompieno, re bua ka boleng.

Go a supafala gore jaanong fa re bua ka boleng jaana, re simolotse go akanya ka gore for the longest time, lefatshe la Botswana le ntse le tshwaragane le bothata jo bo seng kana ka sepe jwa go amogela, e se go amogela fela le go dirwa mo lefatsheng la rona, dilo tsa boleng jo bo belaesegang.
Pele fa re bua ka boleng Mr Speaker, ke dumela gore sengwe se re tshwanetseng go akanya thata ka sone, ke kgang ya gore a mme re na le batho ba ba mo seemong se se siameng sa go tlhaloganya boleng, gore boleng jo re buang ka jone kgotsa the quality that we desire, the quality that will enable this country to compete internationally, ke jwa mofuta o o ntseng jang.

Standards tse di ka kgonang gore commodities mo lefatsheng la rona, di dirwe e le tsa maemo a botoka ke dife, tsa mofuta mang.
Therefore, ke sone se ke reng, go tla mo kgannyeng ya gore a mme re na le batho ba standards tse, boleng jo ba kgonang go tlhaloganya gore re bua ka ga eng.

E bile a ba kgona go bona boleng jo fa ba neetswe tshono ya gore ba bo sekaseka, ba bo kanoke.

It also brings question ya gore do we have institutions mo lefatsheng la Botswana tse di ka kgonang go ruta batho bao gore boleng jwa different commodities, re bo bona ka eng, e bile re ka bo kala ka tsela e e ntseng jang?
Fa re bua ka standards, go a re re bo re na le institutions tse di kgonang go dira gore ba ba neetsweng tiro ya go lebelela boleng kgotsa standards ka bo tsone, a bo ba tswa mo institutions tse re tlhaloganyang gore di itse tse di se dirang in terms of go leka go ruta batho dikgang tse ke buang ka tsone tseo.

So ke ne ke batla go simolola ke e beye ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, gore re tle re kgone go tlhaloganya gore kana boleng, gore re kgone go simolola go bua ka jone, ke gore re bo re bo tlhaloganya.
Gore re simolole go bua ka standards, go a re re bo re tlhaloganya standards tse re batlang go berekela mo go tsone.

Mr Speaker, ke lebogela gore re bue ka Molao- kakanyetso o ka gore re gorogile mo nakong, re le lefatshe la Botswana, e re iphitlhelang re tlhoka go itirela dilo ka bontsi.

Jaaka re tlaabo re di dira ka bontsi jaana, go tlhoka gore a bo e le tsa boleng jo bo rileng.

Dilo tsa standards tse di rileng.


Re a itse gore re ntse re amogela dilo kwa ntle for the longest time, re ntse re le a consumer economy or a consumer society, mme re eletsa jaaka re setse re bona Batswana ba simolotse gore jaanong re nne setšhaba se re itirelang dilo.

Fa ke e fa sekai, e kile ya bo e le gore fa o batla aluminium doors and windows, e ne e le dilo tse o neng o di bona fela kwa China, o ka di import kwa China le kwa mafatsheng a mangwe.
Today fa o tsena corner nngwe le nngwe ya lefatshe la Botswana, o fitlhela banana ba lefatshe le le bagolo ba bone, ba dira aluminium windows.

The question now is a mme batho ba rona ba dira dilo tsa boleng jo bo lekaneng?

Fa e le gore boleng jo ke jo bo sa lekanang, re le Goromente, re dira eng go bona gore boleng jwa dilo tse di dirwang mo lefatsheng la rona ke jo; (i) Bo tlaa tlisang durability ya tsone dilo tseo.
(ii) E ka nna dilo which can compete internationally with other products that are produced ke batho kwa mafatsheng mangwe.

7 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) Ga ke solofele gore re le lefatshe, maikaelelo a rona ke go dira dilo tsa boleng jo bo siametseng lefatshe la rona fela.
Ke dumela gore re tshwanelwa ke gore gompieno, re bo re le mo seemong se boleng jwa dilo tse re di dirang, ke jo bo ka phadisanang le dilo tse di dirwang kwa mafatsheng a mangwe.
Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, ke sone se e leng gore it is important for us to make sure that when we talk quality, re itse gore we define variables tsa quality ka tsela e e ntseng jang, when we talk standards, re a itse gore standards tsa rona ke tsa mofuta mang because go tswa fela gore o batla to position yourself fa kae wena o le modiri.
Ke sone se Mr Speaker, ke dumela gore kgang e e ka tsamaelanang le empowerment of Batswana ke ya go bona gore Batswana ba mo seemong se ba ka ntshang dithoto tsa seemo kgotsa boleng jo bo kwa godimo.

Ga ke bue ka dithoto fela di tshwana le difensetere, ditshipi tsa dikoloi le tse dingwe fela ka go farologana.

Ke bua le ka food commodities gore a mme re le Batswana, re tlhaloganya the standards tse re batlang go di ntsha.

Re tlhaloganya boleng jwa morogo o re tshwanetseng re o ntshe kwa masimo.
Gompieno jaana, re na le mathata a potatoes mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Goromente gompieno a re re emetse potatoes tse di yang go tswa mo masimong a lefatshe la Botswana.

Jaanong kgang ke gore jaaka re emisa dilo go tswa kwa ntle, a re kgona go ntsha dilo tsa boleng jo Batswana e tlaare fa ba reka, ba reke dilo tse di nang le boleng jo ba bo tlwaetseng kgotsa jo ba tswang kgakala ba bo bona mo dilong tse di neng di tswa kwa mafatsheng a mangwe?
Fa e le gore gompieno re bua ka boleng mo lefatsheng, mme ke e fa sekai, e tlaa re gompieno fa potatoes di tswa kwa di tswang teng, di bo di tla e le gore di tla o kare lee, e bile fa gongwe di tla di swabile, kana go tlaabo go raya gore dikgang tsa quality gone foo are compromised.

Jaanong Batswana ga ba na choice ya gore ba ka dira jang ka gore they can only make use of what is available, gompieno e tlaabong e le potatoes tseo.
So ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, it is important gore Mr Speaker, kgang ya quality, re e emele ka dinao because fa re bua ka empowerment of Batswana, re batla gore Batswana ba nne empowered, mme ba nne empowered jaana, moji-moreki le ene a se ka a bewa kwa mosing.

A iphitlhele e le gore o mo seemong se a rekang dilo tsa boleng jo bo amogelesegang.

E se kgang ya gore ke tlaa reng ka gore tota ke gone fela mo go teng.
Batswana ba rata go nna ba ntse ba re gompieno jaana, cabbage fa e tswa South Africa, e tla e le tona, mme tlhwatlhwa ya yone e le botoka, tsa rona mono, di tlaabo di le di nnyennyane, tlhwatlhwa ya tsone e le kwa godimo.
Ke dilo tse re tshwanelwang ke go bona gore we navigate them ka tsela e e ntseng jang, go bona gore kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi, Batswana produce quality e bareki ba mo lefatsheng la Botswana, ba ka e amogelang, ka ditlhwatlhwa tse e tlang ka tsone, ka lebaka la gore jaaka ke ne ke bua, we are about empowering Batswana.
Product ya rona e tshwanelwa ke go nna ya boleng jo e leng gore it can compete internationally, re kgone go ntsha product, re tseye frames tsa aluminium tse di dirwang ke ngwana kwa Francistown South.

Re ye go rekisa kwa South Africa le Dubai fela jaaka e le gore mafatshe a mangwe a ntse a export dilo mo lefatsheng la rona, re di reka ka re ne re dumela gore ke boleng jo bo ntseng jang.

Mo nakong e e fetileng, Goromente o ne a dira dikago, e ka tswa e le ditsela, dikole le dipatela.
Maikaelelo a ga Goromente e le go dira dilo tsa boleng jo bo rileng.

Goromente a na le inspectors tse a neng a dumela gore le tsone ke tsa boleng jo bo rileng.

Goromente o feletse a le disappointed ka gore projects tse di tonatona di ne di feta.

Ke gakologelwa gore sekole se tshwana le sa Nata Senior Secondary School, go lemogilwe fela se setse se fedile gore gatwe se ne se dirwa go sena brick force.
Gone mo ke yone kgang ya gore a mme re na le batho ba re ba rutileng sentle e bile we are confident gore ba ka kgona to monitor and evaluate quality e re buang ka yone.
Fa re bua ka boleng, mme e le gore ga go na batho ba ba kgonang go tlhaloganya gore fa gotwe kago e ke ya seemo sa boleng jo bo kana, e bile re le Goromente, re batla boleng jo bo ntseng jaana, mme go sena batho ba ba mo seemong se, re sa ruta batho go tsena mo seemong se se ntseng jalo, then re tlile go iphitlhela re le lefatshe, re senya madi, re dira projects tse di seng kana ka sepe, mme e le tsa boleng jo bo kwa tlase.

A bo e le gore yo o latlhegelwang ke Motswana.


Ke sone se Tona, ke dumalanang le wena gore tsamaiso ya policy ya boleng, re e fetise ka gore it is the starting point gore re tle re kgone go sekaseka boleng jwa dilo tsa rona mo lefatsheng la rona.

Gongwe go tlaa re thusa moving forward gore re bo re ka dira dilo tsa boleng jo bo amogelesegang, those that will last our lifetime, re sa tshwanelwe ke gore nako le nako re bo re ntse re baakanya.
Bangwe ba ne ba bua ka BQA, e se BQA fela, even our curriculums as a whole di tshwanelwa ke gore iteba.

Di tshwanelwa ke to produce a quality person who will produce dilo tsa mofuta o o nang le boleng, ka gore le bone e a bo e le batho ba ba rutetsweng go nna le boleng.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

8 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Thank you Mr Speaker.
Tona, re go lebogele gore o bo o tlile ka molawana o mo bekeng e, gore re o lebalebe re le Ntlo e re go eme nokeng.

Kopo fela jaaka gale ke gore, dikakgelo tsa Mapalamente re tshwanetse go nna re di tsaya tsia thata.

Re go lebogele gore o lemogile gore molawana o, o ka bo o sa bolo go feta bogologolo.
Re ntse re nna jaaka e kete re le lefatshe la Botswana, re ja fela re sa lebe gore re ja eng se se siameng, re tsaya eng se se sa siamang, re na le eng se re ka se dirang, ya nna nngwe ya isago ya lefatshe la Botswana.

Moso o ke batla re ema ka lefoko le lengwefela re go lebogele gore, o kgonne go bona gore ke nako e e siameng ya gore Batswana ba akole tsotlhe tse ba dirang kana ba di dirisang di tswa mo lefatsheng la bone.

Rraetsho, bakaulengwe ba sa tswa go bua mafoko.


Re tswa kgakala e nna e kete dihawa tsa dilo tse di senang boleng di tsena mo lefatsheng la rona.

Dihawa tse di ka sekeng di re thuse ka sepe, di tshelegela mo lefatsheng la rona, le mororo madi e ntse e le madi fela a re rekang dilo tse ka tsone.
Ke batla go go fa sekai, jaaka o tlaa dumalana le nna maabane fa o ne o le kwa Lobu kwa Khuis, o ne o bona gore dikago ke tsele di agilwe tse dintle, manobonobo a mantle a re neng re tsaya gore ke university ya Kgalagadi.

E rile fela mo go hulareng ga konteraka e e neng e tswa koo, dikago di bo di thubega fela jaaka e kete go kile ga nna le earthquake koo.

Dilo tse di raya gore, golo gongwe sengwe ga se a ka sa dirwa sentle, quality was compromised.
Go tla mo go reng re dumalane gore the quality was compromised, ka gore go ne go sena sepe se se ba tlamang.

Molawana o rraetsho, o ya go tlama mongwe le mongwe yo o batlang go dira sengwe, a itse gore jaanong re le lefatshe la Botswana go ntse go lekane.

Le rona re na le gore re tshwanelwe ke dilo tse di nang le quality, tse bana ba rona ba tlaa tlang ba di akola le mo boseyong jwa rona.
Fa ke santse ke le Mokhanselara, ke gakologelwa sentle gore tsela ya Middlepits/Tsabong e e leng gore after a very short period of time, e ne e setse jaanong e nna le potholes.

Ka re, e le gore baitseanape ba rona ba kae fa tsela e ntse jaana.

Jaaka Honourable Mmolotsi a sa tswa go bua, re tshwanetse gape ra leba gore a bana ba rona le bone ba mo seemong sa go tlhaloganya gore fa re bua ka quality ya dilo tse di dirwang mo lefatsheng la Botswana, ba a bo ba le bokgakala bo kae.
Mo dithutegong tsa bone, how much do they qualify, dilo tse di tshwanetse gore di tsamaelane.

Re tshwanetse go leboga thata gore, lefatshe la Botswana mo bošheng re bula meepo, re dira manufactures tse ditona jaaka re simolola go dira melemo, tse rraetsho re tshwanetse go di lebogela.

Jaanong fa o tla ka molawana o, o tlaa dira gore re le Botswana re itumelele gore sepe se se tlaa tswang foo, re solofela gore it guarantees quality ya tse di tlaabong di tswa foo.
tswa kgakala kwa Kgalagadi, re kopa gore Re motlhaba wa Kgalagadi jaaka baitseanape ba kile ba dira ditshekatsheko, di supa gore re ka kgona go dirisa motlhaba wa Kgalagadi go dira ditena le mole le mole gore re tle re kgone go tlhame ditiro.

Kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi rraetsho, ba ba neng ba dira gongwe ba ne ba sa sala tsamaiso morago, e e ka dirang gore lefatshe le dumalane gore se se tswang kwa Kgalagadi e ka nna selo se se quality.
Jaanong with this National Quality Policy, e ka re thusa gore whatever we do, a ke dilo tse re di tlhakanyang, tse di tswang mo temong le tsotlhe, re tshwanetse go itse gore re tlhomama thata mo quality ya dilo tse re batlang go di dira.

Re tlaa tswelela re go eme nokeng mo kgannyeng e e tshwanang le e, gore re le lefatshe la Botswana jaanong re tlaa ntsha tse di nang le quality.

Ga re na go tlhola re e ja tse mafatshe a lemogang gore di tshwanetse lefatshe la Botswana, ka gore ga di na boleng.
Go nna e kete re le lefatshe ga re na boleng le rona.

If you can go to South Africa, all these pipes tse re di rekang, fa di tsena o a lebelelwa gore this is of cheap quality and this is of high quality.

Di kwadilwe di na le ditempe fa godimo ga tsone, fa o tsena PVC pipes, these other black pipes tse re di dirisang kwa didibeng.

Le the …(Inaudible)… pipes o ne o bolelelwa gore this is good quality or the best quality.
O ntse ka matlho o ka se ke o lemoge, but because di a bo di na le stamp go bo go le gone foo.

Potso fela e re e botsang ke gore, what do you have in place se e tlaa reng molawana o o feta o bo o setse o itse gore now batho ke ba, komiti ke e, semangmang ke yo yo ke mmeileng, kana ofisi ke e e tlaabong e nna yone e sekasekang gore sengwe le sengwe se se tswang e a bo e le quality?
Ke eng se se tlaa dirang gore motho wa kwa Khawa, Struizendum, Hereford le wa dipolaseng tsa Banyana, e re a reka selo a bo a bona se na le sekano sa quality fa godimo ga sone?

A se ka ya re kgantele a bo a iphitlhela e le gore o rekile fela ka gore go a rekiwa.

Re na le kwa go tlholwang boleng jwa dijo tsa dikgomo le dijo tse di farologanyeng, re tshwanetse go e tsosolosa e lebe ka kwa ntle ga fa e ntseng e leba teng.
Dilo tse di tle di tsamaelane le ka fa wena o batlang go nna ka teng, ka fa lefatshe le batlang go nna ka teng.

Re se ka ra tlhola re iphitlhela re toula dilo tseo fela, go sena gope kwa go yang teng.

9 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) I am so happy my Honourable Minister gore, melawana e o tlang ka yone e re raya e re nako e gorogile gore we should move away from the resource based to a knowledge based economy.
With this Bill, e ka re thusa go ikgakologelwa and re tsamaye ka bofefo mo go boneng gore re dira jang dilo tse di ka tsamaelanang le tseo.

Ke se ka ka ya lololo rraetsho, ke go eme nokeng.


A re yeng go lebelela products tsotlhe tse Batswana ba tlaabong ba di ntsha, a ke ditswammung, ditswatemong, ditswaleruong, a ke sepe fela se kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi se tshwanetseng gore a consumer being a citizen or our neighbour, di baya lefatshe la Botswana in terms of rating in producing dilo tse di siameng mo seemong se se ntseng jang.
Dilo tse Tona re tshwanetse go go ema nokeng, re go galaletse re bo re go eleletse gore e kete o ka fefosa maoto a gago wa siana ka lebelo le le utlwalang.

E re mo nakong e e sa fediseng pelo re bua mo diphuthegong tsa Dikgotla, re supe se re se dirileng re le Palamente, re se direla Batswana ba rona kwa magaeng gore ba tlhaloganye dilo tse.

Mr Speaker, ka mafoko a a kalo rra, mma ke eme kopo ya ga Tona nokeng.

Nako e gorogile ya gore values tsa rona be measured sentle.
It should actually go ka visions le missions tsa rona re le lefatshe, tsa maphata a a farologanyeng gore we should never ever compromise our quality produce tse re di dirang re le lefatshe.

Thank you Mr Speaker and thank you Minister.

MR MOTSAMAI (GHANZI SOUTH): Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa tiro.

Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke sa go nyatse fa ke re o Motsamaisa tiro, o kare go kwa lesong.

Le bone ga re ba nyatse.

MR SPEAKER: Kana o kare go jewa kgatsele.


MR MOTSAMAI: Ba kgatsele ke bone ba ba re tlhophileng rraetsho.

Ke fete jaana Mr Speaker ke re, ke leboga thata gore molawana o, o bo o gorogile, kana o tsile go re babisa ditsebe ka one.

Thomo ya me e tona pele ke gore Tona, re a go utlwa, re a go tlhaloganya ka maikaelelo a gago.

Se ke se kopang ke gore, tsamaya o ye kwa madirelong a batho ba ba tswang kwa ntle.
A e ka tswa e le ba the shops tse di tona, ba ba ntshang dilwana mono jaaka diaparo, material, chemicals le tsotlhe, o ye go ba bolelela gore o tla ka molao.

O bitse makgotla a bone a dikgwebo, o buisane le bone.

O ba tlhalosetse, ba go tlhaloganye gore molao o tsile.

E re fa ba dira dilo tse, ba itse gore molao wa boleng o a itsetsepela, o a tomama mo go rona ba rotlhe.

O tsamaye o ye kwa the shops tsa maChina, o ye go ba bolelela gore molao o a gagamala.
Go maleba gore motho fa a reka selwana, a bo a fitlhela a sa direlwa sentle, motho a se ka a mmolelela gore ga a utlwe Setswana.

Ga se mathata a Batswana gore motho wa letso le sele a bo a bua gore ga a utlwe Setswana mme a rekisa.

A sa utlwe Setswana le Sekgoa.

Ke sone se ke batlang go feta ka sone pele.

Mr Speaker, thulaganyo e e ka re sologela molemo thata.

Ba dikgaolo tsa me tse di tshwanang le Makunda, Ncojane, Charles Hill le Kole rraetsho, go na le concretes tse di koo.
Batho ba dikago ba fapaanafapaana le tsone.

Baagi fa ba aga Construction Industry Trust Fund (CITF), offices tsa metrology le extension ya Junior Secondary Schools ba bolelelwa gore ba ye go tsaya material wa concrete kwa Ghanzi, which is about 300 km.

Go turela ba dikompone.

Re ipotsa gore gatwe go dirisiwa seleka sefe go tlhomamisa gore concrete e ke ya boleng jo bo rileng.
Fa o ka tsena kwa Ncojane, o fitlhela mabota a ditamo kana reservoirs tse bagolo ba neng ba di aga ka concretes tseo le ditaka tsa 1960 and 1950, di santse di le teng.

Gompieno jaana o tlaabo o bolelelwa gore concrete e ga se ya boleng jo bo rileng.

A go tsibogelwe seemo se ka gore merafe e setse e nna le boitlhobogo jwa gore concrete tsa bone ga se tsa boleng jo bo rileng.

Ba ka bo ba tsere mining rights, concrete di rekwa mo go bone ba dira madi ka Village Development Committees (VDCs).
Go tlhagogelwe dikgang tse.

Ntlha e nngwe ke ya gore ba bangwe concretes tse, le mebu e e dirisiwang go rethefatsa kana go plaster ba setse ba itlhoboga.

Ba bangwe ba setse ba segile mabitla mo dikonkoreiteng tseo.

Batho ba a bolokwa koo.

Tona, le tshwanetse la ipotsa gore nako e le yang go batla go dirisa concrete eo by hook or crook, a le ya go bona tsamaiso e e siameng.

Go ya go raya gore le simolole go nne le kgotlhakgotlhano ya go batla go fudusa mabitla e le selo se se dingalonyana.
Mr Speaker, fa re bua ka boleng, batsadi ba rona ba Batswana ba a reka at the shops tse di farologanyeng, a ke Choppies, Spar, shop nngwe le nngwe e o ka e akanyang.

Fa gongwe fa o sena go reka, o rekisetswa plastic o re o tsenya tomato sauce mo teng kana mayonnaise, mosadimogolo wa Modimo mayonnaise o, o a fetelela e le gore paper bag ga e strong enough go tsaya dilwana tsa gagwe.

E le kgang ya boleng fa bo fetang teng gore ga bo a sekwasekwa ka botlalo.
Motho yo, o tsena mo dikgannyeng tsa gore, “o duetse, re go 10 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) neetse mayonnaise.

Fa o mo tsenya mo plastic go raya gore ga o a mo tsenya sentle, ke sone se a fetileng a e phunya.” O le gone foo, a bo ba gana go duela Mr Speaker.

Dilo tse di tshwanetse di sekasekiwe.

Mr Speaker, fa re bua ka boleng, re tshwanetse ra bua ka training centres gore di simolole go nna teng di tlale.
Fa di tlala jaana, go boe gape go simolodisiwe courses tse di tsamaelanang le go ruta ka boleng kwa Vocational and Training Centre (VTC), brigades, CITF gore lefatshe la rona le nne le batho ba ba tlhatlhobang.

Batlhatlhobi ba boleng ba ba lekanyeng, ba bantsi ba ba ka itepatepanyang le seemo se fa gotwe let us monitor.

Fa re bua ka boleng Mr Speaker, re tshwanetse ra bua ka resources.
Ga re ka ke ra kgona go bona kgang ya boleng sentle mo lefatsheng ka bophara fa re sena ditsompelo tse re ka go di nayang Tona gore tsamaya le lefatshe lotlhe, staff sa gago ba tsamaye le lefatshe ba bone gore a dilo tse di a diragala.

Fa o sena dikoloi, fa o sena ditsompelo tse di rileng, go tlhoka gore re nonotshe ka ditsompelo le batho gore o bo o na nabo go bona gore dilo tse di a diragala.
itse sentle Mr Speaker, re jaaka tshwanetse re Mopalamente mongwe a ne a bua gore gatwe dilo tse re di jang, re ja dijo mmamang.

Ke dijo tse di dirang eng mo mebeleng ya rona.

Go na le dijo tse di fa tse di phuphumisiwang, kana cabbage e o e lemang mo bekeng, e bo e setse e godile.

Re tshwanetse ra nna le bomaitsaanape ba menontshane, ba ba bonang gore a dilo tse ga di na side effects kana ditlamorago mo go goleng ga Batswana le mo go goleng ga mebele ya bana jalojalo.
Ga re a tshwanela go itumelela go phophoma ga dijo le go dira madi, re sa lebelele gore a mme di dira se e leng poelo mo lefatsheng la rona kana di re bolaela batho.

Ke dilo tse re tshwanetseng ra di sekaseka gore a genetic food di siametse lefatshe la Botswana.

Ke le itse le le Goromente yo e leng gore sa lona fela le lebile madi.

Fa e ne e le mo Bible, le ne le ka rekwa ka sheleng jaaka mongwe a kile a rekwa ka madi go rekisa Morena Jeso.

Selo sa lona ke go leba madi fela gore a mme one a teng.
A selo se borai mo matshelong a batho, ga le se lebe.

Re tshwanetse ra nna le bomaitsaanape gape ba ba lebelelang melemo e gompieno le reng re tsile go e itirela ya COVID, gore e dira eng mo mebeleng ya batho.

Mebele ya batho ba bangwe e ilwa ke seemo sa eng mo melemong eo.

Batho ba bangwe ba tsaya booster, go felela gotwe molemo ga e a ba tsaya sentle.

A bo a felele e le gore botshelo jwa gagwe bo tsena mo diphatseng, kana e nna molwetse.
Mr Speaker, ke dilo tse re tshwanetseng ra di sekaseka fa re bua ka boleng.

Mr Speaker, ke tlaabo ke sa fetsa sentle fa ke sa bue gore go na le bomme ba ba dirang ditena fela tse di rileng tsa boleng jo bo rileng.

Ba tswa go tsaya ditsompelo kwa gotweng ba di tseye teng mme ba tlolwa fa godimo gape ke dikhansele le Goromente.

Batho ba ba tshwanetse to be empowered Mr Speaker.


Bomme ba ba berekang mo mananeong a bo Nyeletso Lehuma (Poverty Alleviation)… Go na le mme yo mongwe kwa Ncojane o bidiwa Galalea Kabike, o dira bokgabane jo bo fetang selekanyo, e le mme fela yo o senang monna, o tlhokafaletswe ke monna, o tsene mo ditlhakong tsa monna.

Ke ne ke batla gore go tsenngwe leitlho mo bathong ba ba ntseng jaana, ba thusiwe go bona gore boleng jo ba bo ntshang jwa ditena bo rekwe, bo kgone gore ba gotsetse bana molelo.
MR SPEAKER: Thank you sir.

MR MOTSAMAI: Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker e bile o nna pelotelele fa ke bua ka bomme, ke ya go ba bolelela gore o motho yo o siameng.

Ke a leboga.

MR LEUWE (TAKATOKWANE): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, good morning and good morning everybody.
Ke ne ke re le nna rra ke nne le la mmotlana on this National Quality Policy, e ke dumelang gore Tona o e tlisitse ka nako e e maleba ka gore tota ke na le tumelo ya gore sengwe le sengwe se a bo se na le nako ya sone e se tshwanetseng gore se goroge ka yone.

Ke nako ya gore this National Quality Policy e bo e goroga e le fa pele ga rona re e buisanya.

Se nna ke se lemogang ke gore quality ke lemao le le dintlha pedi, le le ka tlhabang moroki le kobo.
Fa e le gore o ka e dira fela mo go tshwanetseng ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng, e ka go tsaya ya go pega kwa mankalengkaleng mme fa o ka se ka wa e dira gape ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng, e ka go digela kwa tlase le go feta.

Tota go tswa fela mo mothong gore ene o eletsa gore a rekise eng sa boleng jo bo rileng.
Fa o ka ela tlhoko thata Batswana, ke batho ba ba dumelang thata mo quality ka gore o kgona go utlwa a go bolelela gore, “golo moo ga go na boleng, ga ke reke borotho kwa shopong ya gore, ke bo reka kwa shopong ya gore,” mme gongwe e le loaves tse di lekanang ka size, di bo di farologana ka quality le price ka gore quality can pay you fa o dirile selo sa boleng jo bo rileng, o tlaa bona tuelo e e go kgotsofatsang.
Batswana ga ba nke ba lebelela price eo, ba tlhamalala fela kwa ba batlang quality teng ba ya go duela madi ao gore ba tseye selo sa boleng jo bo rileng.

Fa o ka ela tlhoko, le gompieno fela jaana, fa o ka ya mo baneng ba dikole, majority of them o ya go fitlhela ba rwele ditlhako tse di fa tse di bidiwang gotwe ke 11 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) grasshoppers.
Grasshoppers tseo, ke quality e e leng gore mongwe le mongwe motsadi ka gore o itse gore ngwana wa sekole o dira eng ka ditlhako, o netefatsa gore o rekela ngwana wa gagwe setlhako seo mme se a tura, mme quality le yone e teng mo teng.

O a bo o duelela boleng jwa setlhako seo.

O kgona go simolola kwa go Form 1 a bo a ya go fetsa bo Form 5 ka tsone, provided se sa mo thame, e le quality.

Gone moo, ke gone go supang gore quality e a duela mme go batla re e ela tlhoko thata.
Fa o ka tsamaya kwa bo Letlhakeng, o ya go fitlhela Puso ya rona e latlhegetswe ke madi a mantsi ka tumelo ya gore quality ya teng e ne e se e e leng yone.

Fa o ka ya fa sekoleng se gotweng Mphuthe, se kile sa agiwa ka madimadi fa tlase ga tsela mme ya re re ntse re tsweletse le sekole sone seo, ra bona se thubega fela se bo se nna dilapidated within the blink of an eye, sekole sa bo se setse se sa itshupe.
O ne o kgona go bona gore golo mo go dirwa ke quality ya motho gongwe yo o neng a tlhatlhoba gone foo fa se neng se agiwa teng teng.

Se se nkgakgamatsang ke gore sekole se se thubegang se, go na le batho ba ba agileng mo tikologong ya teng.

Ba sale ba aga pele ga sekole seo sa Mphuthe, but matlo ao a ntse a teng a a tshela, a nonofile fela sentle, ga a na bothata, le beng ba one ba nna mo go one.
O bo o ipotsa gore go ne go dirisiwa criteria efe go aga sekole se se tsileng go thubega fela se bo se feleletsa gotwe se fuduge?

Kana fa se fuduga jalo, ke ditshenyegelo.


Fa ke re tota policy e e tsile ka nako e e siameng gore fa re ka ya go e diragatsa ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng, the very same village ya Letlhakeng, go na le diofisi tsa Tribal Administration tse di neng tsa agiwa gabedi, tsa agiwa fa, tsa thubega, tsa bo tsa felelela di ya go agiwa kwa gongwe gape, di thubedile, ga di sa tlhole di dirisiwa.

O bo o bona gore golo fa go na le golo gongwe fa boleng bo sa dirisiweng sentle teng.
Se se nkgakgamatsang le go feta ke gore matlo a teng kwa Letlhakeng, a teng a agilwe, beng ba one ba nna mo go one le gompieno jaana go ntse go tsweletse go a agiwa mme ga a thubege.

A gongwe re lebelele selo sa mohuta oo.

Ke dumalana thata le Tona e bile ke a mo tlatsa tota ka gore ke dumela gore quality e e ka bereka gongwe le gongwe.
Ga go sa tlhole go na le mosola wa gore o bo o tsaya dikgomo o di tlatsa ka lesaka di nna bo 200, e re fa o ya go rekisa o batla P5,000, o bo o tsaya dikgomo di le pedi, yo mongwe a bo a nna le kgomo di le five, fa a ya go rekisa a batla P10, 000, o tsaya kgomo e le nngwefela.

Gone moo go re bontsha fela gore quality is very, very important because fa di le dintsi jalo, di ya go gotlha naga mme fa di se dintsi, ga di gotlhe naga mme e bile le tlhokomelo ya teng e nna motlhofo ka gore ga di dintsi.
Quality ke selo se se botlhokwa thata se re ka se dirisang gongwe le gongwe.

Ke ne ke eletsa gore gongwe re ka dira jaaka lefatshe la China.

Lefatshe la China le dirisa this policy, I should think, ka tsela e e siameng thata.

Kwa China, motho mongwe le mongwe wa seemo sengwe le sengwe is catered for.

Ke gore fa o tla o batla selo sa low, low quality ka gore ga o na madi, you will get that product.

Fa o tla o batla selo se se fa gare ka gore o na le madi a a gorogang foo, you will get that product.
Fa o batla selo sa maemo a a rileng, o na le madi, you will get that product.

Jaanong le rona gongwe e re fa re lebelela this Quality Policy, re lebelele diemo tse di ntseng jalo ka ditsela tsotlhe to cater for Motswana mongwe le mongwe, e se ka ya nna mo e leng gore go tlaabo go nna fela gongwe mo go batlang… gongwe e le pensele e tshwana le e ke e tshwereng e, e le ya quality e e kwa godimo e batla gore e rekwe ka P30.
A re dire yone ya P30 eo re bo re ya go dira le ya P15 le P5 gore tse tsotlhe di tle di match categories tsa batho ka fa ba tshelang ka teng mo botshelong.

Ke sone se ke reng ke bona this Quality Policy e siame thata, e le botlhokwa thata.

Gongwe se se ka nnang botlhokwa thata ke ka fa re ka e dirisang ka teng.

Fela jaaka Honourable Mmolotsi a ne a bua, gongwe ke adima mafoko a gagwe, e se ka ya nna quality local fela, re dire le quality e re tlaa kgonang to compete le mafelo a mangwe.
Go ka nna monate thata e re o le golo gongwe kwa lefelong lengwe, lefatshe lengwe fela le le koo, o kopana le motho a apere sekipa a go bolelela gore t-shirt e ke ya Botswana, a e rekile ntateng ya quality, a sa e reka fela ka gore e tswa kwa Botswana, e le ka quality ya yone e mo gogetse mo teng.

Le gompieno fa batho ba tsena mo dishopong ba kgona go tsena ka labels.

O tlaa fitlhela go ntse gotwe bo Nike, Adidas le bo mang e le gore ke quality.
Ga go pale sepe le gore le rona mo Botswana re dire qualities tse e tlaa reng motho fela fa tsena tsena mo shopong, a bo a tlhalosa fela gore gongwe ke batla Friction e le sekai e le gore go na le label e e bidiwang gotwe Friction kana Carter, mme Carter o e le label ya Botswana, e le ya quality e e rileng.
Gongwe fa re ne re ka dira jalo, le rona go ka re solegela molemo, policy e e ka re bekela, e ka pega Botswana on the map fela jaaka ke ne ke sa tswa go bua gore le wena tota ... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Friction e ka nna label tota, ke ya go e simolola.

Ke yone label ya tlhwatlhwa.

12 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) MR LEUWE: Ee, o tsere nako ya me Never?

O tsere nako ya me o a e ipha Never?


Ke ne ke re gongwe… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Sorry mokaulengwe, ke ne ke go boka fela.

MR LEUWE: Nnyaa monna, se mpoke o njela nako ka go mpoka Never.

Ke ne ke re gongwe nna ke akgele go le kana mo policy e ya quality gore e botlhokwatlhokwa.

Se se botlhokwa thata ke gore re e dire ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng.

E se ka ya tloga e ya go feleletsa e baya bangwe ka fa mosing kana gongwe e nna ya the chosen few fela, ba ba rileng.
Fela jaaka ke ne ke sa tlhalosa ka labels, gongwe le yone e ka bidiwa Never fela ga e re sepe le fa e ka bidiwa ka leina leo la ga Never, e tlaabo e le quality e e tswang mo Botswana.

Go tlaa laola gore policy eo e e kwadilweng ka Never, ke ya boleng bofe, ka gore o ka tsaya e e kwa godimodimo wa e kwala ka Leuwe, o bo o tsenya e e fa gare o e kwala ka Carter, o bo o ya go tsenya ya ga Never kwa tlase to cater for ba bangwe ba le bone ba ka e tlhokang gore ba kgone to afford it ntateng ya madi.
Ka mafoko ao Mr Speaker, ke supa fa ke ema Tona nokeng ka policy e ya National Quality.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Member for Takatokwane.

Honourable Member for Molepolole North.

MR REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): Tanki Mr Speaker gore o bo o mphile nako e le nna gore ke latlhele a le mabedi mo Molao-kakanyetso o re sa tswang go o bewa pele o wa National Quality Policy for Botswana.
Tona, fela ke simolole ka gore, Rra ke a leboga gore o bo o tlile ka molawana o o tshwanang le o o ntseng jaana.

Re a o amogela.

Kana maikaelelo a molao o ke gore e re kgabagare jaanong re bo re itse gore dithoto le ditirelo tsa rona tse re di dirang; product and services re bo re itse gore di ka kgona go phadisanya le mafatshe a a kwa ntle a re dirisanyang le one.

Go botlhokwa fela thata gore o bo o tlile ka molao o o ntseng jaana.
Mme e bile ke lemoga gape gore, o lemogile gore kana re bapile le lefatshe le le setseng le fatlhogile la South Africa le re tsayang dithoto kwa go lone, mme dithoto tsa bone ke tsa boleng jo bo kwa godimo.

Jaanong kana gore re tle re kgone gore le rona dithoto tsa rona di tswe mo lefatsheng la rona di le maemo a ntlha, ke gore molao o o tshwanang le o o ntseng jaana re bo re na nao.

Ke sone se ke reng rra, ke a go leboga, mme e bile ke go ema nokeng fela thata ka one jaaka fa o ntse jaana.
Tona, gongwe ke jaaka fa mongwe wa batlotlegi a ne a bua, a e re mo nakong e khutshwanyane gongwe jaanong molao o e sa tlhole e nna policy jaaka e le policy jaana, e bo e le molao fela o batho ba ka itshekang mo go one.

E se policy e e leng gore tota ka boammaaruri batho ga ba ka ke ba itsheka, e bile ga ba ka ke ba sekisiwa based thata mo go yone.

A e re gongwe mo nakong e khutshwanyane o bone gore o o godisa ka bofefo jo bo kae.
Kgang e nngwe e e botlhokwa ke gore, ga o ka ke wa bua ka quality o sa bue ka standards, mo go rayang gore re tshwanetse gore e re jaaka fa re ntse re re re bo re na le dilo tsa boleng jo bo rileng go bo go na le standards tse re nang natso, tse e leng gore we measure boleng jwa dilo tse ka tsone.

Ke a dumela gore ba BOBS, ke tsaya gore ke bone ba ba tshwanetseng to develop standards tsa dilo tse tsotlhe le ditirelo tse re nang natso.
Gongwe jaanong go ya pele o tlhomamise, o bone gore a standards that they have developed ke tsone tse e leng tsone.

Mme e bile le fa e le tsone gore di ntse jalo, a Batswana ba a di itse, ka gore ke tsone tse e leng gore go ya pele ba tshwanetse gore ba bo ba di dirisa go lemoga gore a se ba se dirang, a ke products kana services that they offer, a ke tsa standards kana quality e e rileng, jaaka fa re ntse re bua.

Go ka nna botlhokwa fela thata gore bone ba ba di dirang ba BOBS, Batswana ba di itse.
Ba ba tlaabong ba tsena mo madirelong go dira le bone ba di itse.

E se ka ya re ba simolola go dira products, ba setse ba le fale, go bo go lemogiwa gore they do not meet the required standards, mo go rayang gore quality e tlaabo e ile kwa tlase.

Go botlhokwa gore e re Batswana jaaka re ntse re bua ka melao e ntse jaana ba itse gore ditsetlana dingwe di ka bonwa kae ka tsela e e tshwanang le yone e e ntseng jaana.
Ke buiswa se Mr Speaker ke gore, e rile mo nakong e e fa moragonyana fale, bontsi jwa dikgwebo tse dipotlana kana Small Micro and Medium Enterprises (SMMEs) ba ne ba wa ka lebaka la gore, maikaelelo e ne e le go rekisetsa dikgwebo tse di ikemetseng ka nosi le Puso.

Mme e ne e a re fa ba ya go ipapatsa e bo kgang e nna gore products tsa lona ke tsa boleng jo bo kwa tlase.

Puso ka bo yone tota, maphata a a farologanyeng, ba bo ba gane go reka dilo tseo ka lebaka la gore boleng jwa tsone bo kwa tlase.
A jaanong standards tse fa di tlaabo di le teng ba di dira, a di tswele kwa ntle Batswana ba di itse, e re fa ba dira ba bo ba bapisa ba bona gore a ka boammaaruri ba di dira ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng.

E nngwe e ke neng ke batla gore ke fete ka yone Rraetsho ke gore, a e re jaaka re tlaabo re diragatsa molawana o re ko re o diragatse across.
O se ka gongwe wa itsheegela 13 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) ka fa go ba bangwe, ba bangwe o bo o ba tlogela.
Ke buisiwa se ke gore, kana fa o ela thoko, gantsi gantsi ditirelo tse di dirwang ke Puso kana ke maphata a a farologaneng a Puso, o fitlhele e le tsa boleng jo bo kwa tlase, mme when they is inspection kana ba ba tshwanetseng gore ba lebelele, ba lebeletse thata ka kwa go ba ba ikemetseng ka nosi, gore a dilo tsa bone ke tsa boleng jo bo rileng.
I will give you an example, dikago, batho ba dikago kana maphata a dikago ka go farologana, fa go tsena mo go ba ba ikemetseng ka nosi they are very, very strict gore go nne jang, mme fa go tla mo go tsa Puso, nnyaa, ba kwa ga mothakga fela, go itirelwa fela mo e leng gore ga gona le fa e le sepe se se tlhokometseng gore a di a dirwa.
I will give you an example Mr Speaker, go na le matlo a a kileng a nna for 10 years fa Block 6 a agilwe, mme e le gore matlo ao ga gona yo o ka tsenang mo go one ka lebaka la gore ga a agiwa sentle.

Potso e bo e nna gore, e rile jaaka fa go simololwa kwa tlase kwa foundation ka re solofela gore go nne le inspection, le fa go agiwa mabotana go nne le inspection, fa go dirwa roofing go nne le inspection, go fetile ka tsela e e ntseng jang?
Dikgang tse ke tsone tse di tshwenyang tse ka boammaaruri a e se ka ya nne e kete tsa Puso tsone di latlhelelwa fela ka gore ga di na mong jaanong ke tsa mongwe le mongwe.

E kile ya re nako nngwe moswi Tautona Masire, mowa wa gagwe o robale ka kagiso, a bua a re, “dilo tse e leng gore ke tsa public, they do not belong to anybody.” A reela mafoko a gore o kare dilo tsa Puso re di tsaya re sa di tseye ka tlhoafalo, mme fa re tsaya tse e leng tsa rona re di tsaya ka tlhoafalo.
Gongwe a e ko e re jaaka fa re bua ka quality jaana, e nne quality across; a ke dilo tse di tlhokafalang kwa Pusong kana kwa go ba ba ikemetseng ka nosi, di tsewe ka tlhoafalo.

So that re tle re bone dilo tse e leng tsa boleng gotlhe go sena fa go sokolwang teng.

E nngwe Rra e ke neng ke batla go feta ka yone ke e bakaulengwe ba ntseng ba bua ka yone; our technical colleges and brigades.
Go botlhokwa gore mo gompienong fa bana ba ba tswang kwa dikoleng tse e bo e le bana ba e leng gore are good products, quality product, going to offer quality services outside.

Mme go a lebega gore ke batho ba e leng gore le fa ba tswa foo ga gona… le rona fela re le Batswana ga re ba tseye tsia to the extent that e a re fa gongwe go tle ba bangwe ba ba tswang kwa mafatsheng a re bapileng nao, you then prefer go dirisa motho wa mofuta oo.
A gongwe ke yo o batlang go tla go thusa ka tsa motlakase, plumbing, kana go aga, re tlaabo re leba kwa ntle, e le gore re nyatsa bana ba rona ba ba mo.

Gongwe re ba nyadisiwa ke gore re nyatsa dikole tse ba neng ba tswa kwa go tsone.

Ke re Rraetsho, a ko e re fela fa molawana o jaaka o dirwa jaana go kgonagale kana o dire gore ka boammaaruri o ame mongwe le mongwe, o ame dithoto le services tsotlhe tse re tlaabong re di dira.

Fa re bua ka quality ga re bue fela ka dithoto go di bona tse di tangible.
Re bua even ka the services tse di diregang, le tota mo diofising tsa Puso le tse e seng tsa Puso, we need quality services tse e leng gore fa o tsena o bo o kgotsofala gore nnyaa, mme fa ke tsena fa ke bona gore ke a go dira tiro e e rileng.

A e re ba ba sa direng dilo tse ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng Tona, gongwe molao o fa o utlwa ke ne ke go raya gore go botoka gongwe e nna Act, o gagamale.
Yo o tlaabong a fosa a sa dire ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng a tseelwe dikgato tse di maleba kana tse di tlaa supegetsang ba ba kwa morago gore fa re re dira se o se tsaya ka tlhoafalo.

Ke tsaya gore fa re ka o dira jalo rraetsho re tlaabo re itiretse molemo fela thata.

Mme ke batla go gatelela ka gore, a Batswana re tlhomamise gore ba BOBS ba ntsha standards that they have developed.
Di tswele kwa ntle, Batswana ba di itse ba tle ba kgone go di dirisa, gore re tle re ntshe ditirelo le dithoto tsa maemo a ntlha a re tsayang gore di ka gaisana le mafatshe a re bapileng le one.

Le mo gae, re bo re eletsa gore re ka reka dilo tse di dirilweng mono, go na le go reka tse di dirilweng kwa mafatsheng a sele.

Ka mafoko ao Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke leboga Tona mme e bile ke dumalana le ene ka policy e gore e fete rraetsho.

Thank you very much.


MR MOTAOSANE (THAMAGA-KUMAKWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker, nte ke go leboge Rraagwe Nkamo gore o bo o mphile sebakanyana se.

Ke e tseye ka bokhutshwane, bakaulengwe ba buile dikgang tse di botlhokwa di le dintsi thata.

Ke dumalana gore tota policy e ga e bolo go siiwa ke nako go ka nna teng.

Ke leboge Tona gore a bo a bone go tlhokafala gore a e dire.

Letshwenyego la me e a bo e le kgang e one e e leng mmammang mo ditirelong tsa rona re le lefatshe la Botswana.
Re tla ka melao le dikakanyo tse dintle mme fa re sena go tla ka yone re e baya on paper, re tsenya mo teng ga shelves tsa diofisi, ga re diragatse.

Jaanong ke kope Tona gore fela jaaka policy e e feta mo Palamenteng, a e simolole gore batho ba e ba amang, bogolo jang ba madirelo, ba eng fela jalo, ba bo ba itse ka yone.

Ke batla go supa gore ga se gore this policy e jaaka e tla jaana, e tla re ntse fela.
Go ntse go na le system e nngwe e re kileng ra leka go e dirisa mo lefatsheng la 14 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) Botswana ya Quality Management Services (QMS).

This QMS ke itse gore e ne ya nna teng ya diragatswa, re ne re e dira thata botoka kwa Kweneng.

Go na le Mokwaledimogolo wa khansele ka nako eo Wazha Tema, yo o neng a le particular ka programme e gore e a diragatswa.
Mo godimo ga yone, ba leka mo gotweng Performance Management System (PMS), e e neng e sala dilo tse morago go bona gore fa go buiwa ka quality, a go dirwa jaaka re solofetse.

Ba ne ba tsamaya ba bo ba ya to benchmark kwa Mexico, ba tla ka dikgang fela tse di duleng pele.

Ministry of Local Government ba na le dilo tse mo ditafoleng tsa bone ke a tlhomamisa.
Ke dumela gore fa re ne re ka tsaya the route ya Kweneng e e nneng ya tla ka this QMS re e diragatsa across the Government sectors, re ka iphitlhela re dira mo go botota thata.

There were many people ba e leng gore they were trained kwa Local Government mo QMS e. Ke dumela gore ba ka tsaya kgang and cascade it kwa maphateng a mangwe a ga Goromente, bogolo jang mo Central Government ka gore o fitlhela o kare ke teng kwa go nnang le go tlhoka go dira dilo ka matsetseleko a a tshwanetseng.
Jaanong gongwe policy e jaaka e tsile Tona, ke go leboge gore gongwe e tlaa tsibosa badiredi le Batswana botlhe ba ba eletsang go dira dithoto go itse gore go na le golo mo gotweng QMS.

MR HIKUAMA: On a point of clarification.

Ke a leboga Honourable Motaosane, ke a leboga Motlotlegi Rra Nkamo.

Honourable Member, o buile ntlha e nngwe e e botlhokwa thata e ke batlang gore gongwe o e nthuse kana o tlhalose, gongwe o ka tswa o na le dikitsonyana tse di rileng.
Ke kgang ya go tla ka megopolo e e siameng fa e le mo dipampiring, mme go lebega e le yone e e re busetsang kwa morago mo sengwe le sengwe se re lekang go se dira.

Gore re ka tswa re dirile selo botoka mme gore se diragale, re akole maduo a sone, go sa bonale.

Golo moo fela o bona go dirwa ke eng thata, e bile go ka dirwa eng botoka gore re fetoge mo ngwaong e e bosula e?

MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you sir.

Ke go utlwile mokaulengwe.


E ga re a tshwanela go e iphitlhela ka monwana re le Mapalamente kana setšhaba sa Botswana.

Tota when it comes to putting things on paper mo Botswana, we are the best.

A typical example; we had a programme, Mme Mma Venson o ne a dira ka dikgang tsa Local Government.

Ke bua jaana mafatshe a a tshwanang le South Africa le Namibia ba kopile mo Botswana.

Fa o ka bona se se neng se buiwa ke report ya ga Mma Venson, se re ka bong re se diragatsa mo go rona, go a pala fela.
Ke gore o fitlhela o kare ga se our own product.

Dilo tse gongwe e re fa re ntse re tla ka melao e, re tle re lebelela gore re tsamaya fa kae on implementing them, re di implement ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ke ne ke itumetse fa go duwa ka the Monitoring Policy, and ga ke ise ke bone phetogo up to now, e sa le jaaka re e fetisa mo Palamenteng e e fetileng re le kwa Boipuso Hall.

Up to now, ga ke ise ke bone phetogo ya go supa gore golo fa dilo tse di a diragala.
Ke bua ka dilo tse ka gore go na le these standards tsa International Organisation for Standardisation (ISO) 9001, kana gompieno e tsamaya fa kae ga ke itse.

Ke tlhomamisa gore dilo tse ke standards fela tse e leng gore BOBS ya rona e itse ka tsone.
E bile fa re ka di sala morago go leka go tsena into the international community le rona ra diragatsa these ISO 9001 through the QMS and PMS, re ka kgona go lepalepana le seemo se re tlhokang gore jaaka re tlisa this quality policy, e bo re kgona gore re diragatse.

Re se ka ra bua ka molomo.

O ela tlhoko mo mafatsheng a mangwe, sekai fela gompieno mo Botswana; fongkongs di tsile di le dintsi thata.
Ke gore parts tse re di rekang mo mafelong a mangwe a a tshwanang, ba ke sa batleng go ba bua ka maina, ba ba rekisang parts tsa dikoloi, o a itse gore they are not allowed in South Africa.

We can do likewise fa re na le this policy and implement it, re ka kgona gore re emise dilo tse.

O se ka wa ya go reka gearbox fa boketekete, e re kamoso after two months e bile e go kata tlhogo.
Jaanong dilo tse o bone gore di a feta ka mafatshe a mangwe like for instance, di tswa mo melelwaneng kwa Durban, di tla mo garona e le tsa quality e e kwa tlase.

Gongwe le gongwe go na le fa go simololwang teng.


Ke leboge Tona ka gore fa a riana, o re supegetsa gore jaaka re bua ka Batswana gore re tshwanetse re itirele dithoto tsa rona tse di nang le boleng, se ke sone se ka isang lefatshe la rona kwa pele go se tsisa mo go yone the Fourth Industrial Revolution (4IR), e re eletsang go bona dilo tsa rona di tlhabologa.
Mafatshe a a tshwanang le bo China, dilo tsa bone fa o bona re ne re di bitsa fongkongs jaana, ba simolotse jalo ka go nanabela go le gonnyennyane ka bonya ka bonya, ba bo ba improve quality ya dithoto tsa bone.

Jaanong fa go na le policy e e tlaabong e ba guide gore mme fa go ntse jaana, selo se re dumela mo go sone gore ke sa boleng jo bo siameng ka gore re a bo re itse gore re lebeletse eng.

BOBS ke dumela gore already e setse e dira tiro, but ga ke dumele gore e dira mo go lekaneng.
Go na le dikgwebo tse dintsintsi mo go rona mme ga o ke o bona products 15 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) tse di dirilweng mono di tla di na le BOBS certificate, setempenyana fela se mo dithotong tse re di dirang go tla go supiwa gore BOBS standards.

South Africa o tlaa nna o ntse o bona gotwe South African Bureau of Standards, o bona ditempe tsa tsone di ngaparisitswe mo dithotong tse di dirilweng kwa ga bone.
Jaanong e Tona o tsile ka molao o o siameng.

Gongwe kwa bofelong ke kope, kana fa o bua ka policy e ntse jaana, go raya gore o simolole to hunt for people ba ba ka tsweledisang policy e. Ke bua fela ke papametse ga ke sebe, we have motho fa Local Government yo ke tlhomamisang gore dilo tse ke tse a di kgonang botoka go di tsamaisa, a di phatlalatsa, a di ruta batho jaaka ke bone a di dira kwa Kweneng.
Golo mo motho a tshwana le ene Wazha Tema le Rre Mosala, ke batho ba e leng gore they are very good at these things.

Jaanong fa e kare o tsoma mo lephateng la gago wa bula lephatana le le tlaa itebaganyang le dilo tse, wa tsaya batho ba ba tsweledisa programmes tse go di ruta badirelapuso botlhe fela ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng.

Mongwe o ne a fa sekai ka gore standards tse jaaka re di dira jaana, o ka fitlhela o kare re direla private sector, tsa Puso tsone re sa di ele tlhoko.
Sekai; fa o ya kwa primary schools kana preschools, o ya go fitlhela preschools tsa Batswana ba tshwenngwa, tota e bile dikole tsa bone di tla di tswalwa e le gore ba health ba tswala gore dilo tse ga di mo seemong sa tiriso.

Fa o ya kwa dikoleng tsa ga Goromente, o tlaa fitlhela matlhotlhapelo mme tsone di tsweletse di ntse di bereka fela ba sa tswadisiwe sekole fela ka gore ke sa Puso.
Ke dumela gore fa standards tse di nna teng, re tshwanetse gore le maphata a Puso a re bonang a se mo seemong se se siameng, a tswalwe gore batho ba ba itse gore ba tshwanetse gore ba tlhokomele go bona gore ditiro tse di dirwa ka tsela e di tshwanetseng go dirwa ka yone.

E se ka ya nna e kete re kgokgontsha the private sector, we demand mo go bone go bona gore dilo tse ke tsone fela di le nosi tse go tshwanetseng gore go lejwe kwa go bone gore ba se ka tla ka dilo tsa boleng jo bo kwa tlase.
Kwa bofelong ke re ke a go leboga Tona, ke eme mogopolo o wa gago nokeng, a e se ka ya re re sena go nna re o fetisa, wa ya go nna mo drawers mong wa me.

Ka mafoko a a kalo, ke a leboga.

MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you for the opportunity.

Ba le bantsi ba setse ba buile Mr Speaker, ke ne ke batla go latlhela fela go le go khutshwanyane le nna.

Gongwe ke tlaa gaisa Motlotlegi Motaosane ka nna mokhutshwane.
Mr Speaker, e rile ke santse ke le mo bodirelengpuso, re ne ra rutwa concept e e neng e bidiwa gotwe total quality management.

E le maiteko a Goromente wa nako eo go leka go re tlhabolola gore mo ditirelong tse re di neelang setšhaba, re ba neele bodiredi jwa maemo le quality e e kwa godimo.
Ke santse ke dumela mo thutong eo Mr Speaker, ya total quality management ka gore e ne ya nthuta gore, gore an organization e kgone go ntsha ditirelo tsa quality, every level ya organisation eo e tshwanetse gore e dumele mo selong se go tweng quality product.

Jaanong ke batla go gakolola setšhaba sa Botswana gore, ga re a tshwanela gore re lebelele quality gore e tshwanetse gore e tswe kae, rona re sa ntshe quality yone eo e e solofetsweng mo go rona.
The point I am trying to make Mr Speaker, ke gore every level, sector and every aspect of our society, mongwe le mongwe fa a leng teng, go tshwanetse gore e re a dira se a se dirang, a tlhomamise gore o dira selo sa boleng jo a ka ikgantshang ka jone.

Nako nngwe e ne e re re rutiwa le ke bo Boyce Sebetlela tota, ba re reye ba re, fa o dira tiro, o tshwanetse gore o e dire in such a way ya gore mongwe e tlaa re a tla a leba, a bone signature ya gago mo tirong eo.

Your signature must be visible.


Jaanong ke batla go raya setšhaba sa Botswana, babereki, management and leadership; leadership ke balela le rona mo teng boeteledipele jwa sepolotiki, le jwa industries (captains of industry), re tshwanetse gore e re re dira ditiro tsa rona, batho ba kgone go bona gore golo fa go na le boeteledipele jwa quality, e bonale mo go rona rotlhe ba ba eteletseng pele kwa godimo, bo managers fa gare le badiri ba ba ntshang ditirelo; either manufacturing or the service industry.
Ba tshwanetse gore ba bo ba dumela mo quality.

Gore go nne jalo Mr Speaker, go botlhokwa gore dilo dingwe di dirwe.

One of those ke gore people should be competent on what they do for them to produce quality service.

Gape re se ka ra neela batho ditiro tse ba sa di itseng.

Ke a tle ke lebelele mo Public Service o fitlhela batho ba isiwa kwa le kwa fela, ba tsenngwa gongwe le gongwe, le fa motho a senang le fa e le lesedi la gore tota gatwe golo fa go diragala eng.
Go bo gotwe nnyaa ka gore o leader, ka gore o Permanent Secretary (PS), o tlaa tshwanelwa ke gore o etelele pele.

Go thata to expect quality mo seemong se se ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, fa e le gore o neela motho an industry or a sector e a sa e itseng, e a senang kitso mo go yone, not even at the most basic level.

So re tshwanetse gore re tlhomamise gore fa re neela motho re re dira tiro e, ntsha boleng, re bo re itse gore o e rutetswe, o a e itse, o na le bokgoni mo go yone.
16 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) Mr Speaker, re a tle re dire diphoso mo lefatsheng le, re neela a company e e leng gore it is a landscaping company, that was formed go lema ditlhare, lawn, go phepafatsa environment jalojalo, o bo o e neela tsela o re e age tsela from one place to another, mme e sena le fa e le yone kitso ya gore fa gotwe tsela, e agiwa jang.
Go bo gotwe nnyaa ke tlaa ya go batla the engineers le the technicians.

Wena o le moeteledipele wa yone, o sa itse gore fa gotwe go agiwa a quality road, go tewa eng.

That is the foundation, that is the environment for poor quality work ka gore o tlaabo o eteletse batho kwa pele wena o sa itse gore go diragala eng.

If we want to ensure quality mo lefatsheng la rona, we must award responsibilities, and jobs on the basis of merits and competency, and not patronage.
Jaanong bothata jo re nang le jone malatsing a mo lefatsheng la rona, ke gore patronage e eteleditswe kwa pele, go bo go felela e le gore batho ba neelwa ditiro tse ba sa di itseng.

Mr Speaker, fa o hira motho in a hotel industry, ke kile ka train le rre mongwe o ne a tswa Swaziland a bidiwa gotwe Mazwimango, o ne a bua gore in the hotel industry, we are very different.

Ga o ka ke wa tsena in the hostel industry, a service industry, o sena mowa wa gore o motho that serves batho.
E tlaa re gotwe o tshelele motho metsi, o bo o re o ntshiwa lelata.

E tlaa re gotwe o feelele motho room, o tlhatswe fa go senyegileng teng, o bo o tseela gore o a kgokgontshiwa Mr Speaker.

So, we must ensure that people are awarded jobs and responsibilities for which they are tailor-made.

Ke tseela gore o ntheeditse Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Ke go reeditse thata mokaulengwe.

MR KAPINGA: I will give you an example of an industry that is close to my heart.
Fa o hira lepodise, o bo o hira motho yo sa rateng sepodise, yo o ipatlelang salary fela at the end of the month, you cannot expect quality service from that police officer because ene o tlaabo a dira fela gore at the end of the month ke a amogela.

Fa o hira motho yo o ratang sepodise ka pelo ya gagwe yotlhe, o bo o mo rutela tiro, train him, equip him to do the job, o tlaabo o sa lore if at the end of the day you expect quality from that kind of person.
Mr Speaker, in conclusion, ke batla go gatelela ke re, quality should be seen in all of us, go simolola fela ka Tautona wa lefatshe, Ministers, PS, ka Members of Parliament, bo mang, mongwe le mongwe fela yo o eteletseng pele; the managers le babereki that produce product, those who deliver the services, it should be a culture that portray all of us.

Otherwise fa e le gore re e batla mo go ba bangwe rona re sa e dire, ga go ka ke ga diragala.
Ba tlaa leka go e dira go fitlhelela golo gongwe, ba bo ba lapa mo tseleng, gotwe nnyaa, quality e batliwa mo go rona fela, mo boeteledingpele ga e batliwe, then we are bound to fail.

So it is important that quality should be expected of all of us e seng mo go bangwefela mo go bangwe e sa batliwe.

Ke eme gone foo Mr Speaker.

Ke dumela gore ke gaisitse Motlotlegi Motaosane ka go nna mokhutshwane.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Indeed, o mo gaisitse.

Thank you very much Honourable Kapinga.


Honourable Minister, please respond to the debate.

(MR KGAFELA): Ke a MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Ntlo e e tlotlegang e. Ke leboga motlotlegi mongwe le mongwe ka tsela e e faphegileng gore a bo a tsentse lebogo mo tshekatshekong ya policy e gore e felele e fetile.

Batlotlegi ba ne ba supa lesokolela la gore ke policy, ga e na meno, mme fela ke ba rurifaletse gore nnyaa e na le meno.
I will illustrate gore ke raya jang ke re e na le meno.

Policy e fa re e lebeletse batlotlegi, fa re sena go e fetisa, e tlaabo e sireletsegile ka gore e bua ka quality.

E ya go sirelediwa ke molawana wa Consumer Protection Act, e ke eletsang batlotlegi gore ba nthuse go ruta Batswana ka yone.

Le nna ke tshwanetse go amogela gore ga ke matwetwe wa one, ke simolola go o bala fa batlotlegi ba ntse ba akgela.

Ke ba leboge ka fa ba akgela, jaanong ba a nkgwetlha gore ke ye go o lebelela, le nna ke ithute.
E rile ke o lebeletse, ke bo ke bona gore o dira provision for quality protection, fa ke sa fose o kare ke ka fa tlase ga Part V ya molao o. E bua fela sentle gore moji- moreki o na le tshwanelo ya quality, mme o tshwanetse a e neelwe.

Quality ya services gammogo le ya dithoto tse di rekisiwang, le gore a neelwe ditirelo ka lebelo le le solofetsweng.

Fa e le gore go na le dipe tse di tlaa kgoreletsang lebelo le, o na le tshwanelo ya go itsisiwe ke yo a mo neelang dithoto gore matsapa di a tsaya kae.
Ke dilo dingwe tse e leng gore ke dintlhakgolo tsa quality.

Molao o o supa gore fa o tsena mo tshetlaneng ya bo 46, gore fela fa o tsuolola dintlha dipe tsa yone Consumer Protection Act, mme Mapalamente ba sa laela gore o atlholwe jang, go raya gore o tlaabo o iputse gore 17 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) o ka atlholwa, wa lefisiwa madi a a ka tshwarang P500, 000.
Kgotsa wa isiwa kgolegelong, ke lebala dingwaga tsa kgolegelo, mme o kare di tharo, kgotsa kgolegelo le madi ka nako e le nngwe.

le Ditshetlana tse ke buang ka tsone ke re di under Part V, fa yo o neelang ditirelo a di tsuolola, go na le bokgoni jwa gore a bo a patikiwa in addition to administrative action e e kgonang go tsewa ke authority ya consumer protection gammogo investigating officers.
In addition to administrative sanctions tse ba ka di mo tseelang, go na le the criminal sanction, which is created by Section 46.

Tota fela fa molao o o ne o diragatswa go tlhoafetswe, ba le bantsi ba ka bo ba setse ba tsene ka ntlo lefitshwana.

Go a diragala go le gantsi gore motho a tshwanetse a neele Motswana ditirelo, a bo e le gore jaanong dilo tsa gagwe di sa tsamaye sentle, a bo a tima phone, gore moji-moreki a se ka a kgona go mo fitlhelela.
Ke tsone dilo dingwe tse fa mapodise a rona a ka rutiwang tiro e sentle gore ba itse gore it is a criminal offence go neela motho service or products tse di bowang ka kwano.

Fa gotwe quality e e solofetsweng ke motho, seelo se re tshwanetseng go se lebelela, re tshwanetse go amogela gore fa gotwe motho go tewa eng.

A go tewa yo o tlwaetseng quality e e kwa tlase kgotsa e e kwa godimo?
Fela in my construction of that law, e reela gore fa gotwe motho o le Motswana, o tshwanetse wa bapisiwa le merafe ya mafatshe a internationally accepted quality e seng mangwe, measurement go dirisiwa motho yo o tlwaetseng quality e e bowang ka kwano.

Ke dumela gore the yardstick ke the international community, gore ke tshwanetse ke itshwantshe le motho a le kwa America gore o na le tshwanelo ya ditirelo kgotsa thekiso ya dithoto tsa boleng bofe.
Jaanong fa e le gore ke neelwa services tse di bowang ka kwano, ga se di solofetsweng ke motho yoo, ke tlaa kopa ke gagabele fa sepodiseng fale, ke re bagaetsho, Section 46 ke e, ke kopa le gagamaletse motho yo a itse fela gore fa a tsaya tshwetso ya gore ene o provide services kgotsa o rekisa dithoto, a bo a itse fela gore o tshwanetse go di provide ka qualities tse di solofetsweng.
Tiragatso ya policy e ke tshimologo ya gore in all the sectors, se ke se dirileng fela from my end, ke go neela a general policy, mme go ya go tshwanelwa ke gore all other sectors le tsone jaanong di bo di develop sector- specific policies, ka gore ke amogela gore ga ke ka ke ka cover sengwe le sengwe.

Fela jaaka Motlotlegi Rre Tshere a ne a tlhalosa, gore fa a tshwantshanya policy e le ya health, ya health e kare go tseneletswe, it is a sector-specific policy, ke matshwanedi gore e tsenelele.
Ke solofetse le gore at all other sectors, a ke kwa diteemaneng, ditseleng le kwa dikagong, a bo e le gore there are sector-specific policies which are being informed by this overall national policy.

Tota ke tshwanetse go rurifatsa gore fa re simolola, re tla ka policies jaana, tota e a bo e le gore se se setseng se tshwanetse Batswana, all that we are doing ke batla go se neela greater clarity, re se neele kitsiso e e tseneletseng.

Quality ke selo se motho a tsalwang ka sone, molao wa rialo.
Ga o tlhokane le gore e re o kwaletswe seelo gore o fiwe quality, o nne le tshwanelo ya one, molao wa re o tshwanetswe ke quality.

Ke gore le fa molao wa Consumer Protection Act, ke ne ke sena one mo diatleng, ke ne ke santse ke na le a fallback position ya molao o e leng gore Mapalamente ga ba a o kwala, mme ke molao o o developed over a period of time, ke bomaitseanape le bakwadi, o bo o amogelwa mo makgotlatshekelong gore ke molao, kgotsa o o bidiwang the Common Law.
Ke ne ke santse ke na le gore ke ka wela ka fa tlase ga one fa e le gore Mapalamente gongwe ga ba a ka ba boledisa ya bone tiro ka fa go leng matshwanedi.

Motho o tsalwa ka tshwanelo ya quality.

Jaanong ke a le leboga Mapalamente gore mme gone le bo le fetisitse the Consumer Protection Act.

Ke leboga le gore pele ga ke tsena mo Palamenteng, go bo go fetisiwa le the Consumer Protection Regulations.
Ga bo go fetisiwa the Consumer Protection, year 2000, Compliance Regulations e e tlamang gore go nne le boleng kwa ditirisong tsa computers le dilo tse di electronic.

Dilo tse ke dibetsa tse ke di tshotseng mo diatleng tsa me go rurifatsa gore quality policy e ke eletsang gore with it, I offer greater clarity to Batswana on their entitlements, mme e le yone also a calling and invitation to other sectors.
Gore ka tsweetswee, menang dihempe tsa lona mabogo, le lona le baakanye policies which are sector- specific… MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Ke ne ke solofetse Rraetsho Motlotlegi Tona gore e tlaare nako e, o bo o ntile gore chapter e o bo o e sweditse, gore e tle e re morago ga dijo tsa motshegare, re bo re ka ya kwa go tse dingwe.
Ga go tshwenye Mokgatla, e tlaare morago ga tiro e re nang nayo, go simolola ka nako ya bobedi, morena wa me Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke na le tumelo ya gore o tlaa go nta.

Ka sebaka se, ke tlaa kopa Batlotlegi Mapalamente, a re emiseng tiro ya moso wa letsatsi gone fa.

Ka Sekgatla, re tle re ye go kopa mosokwane.

A re emiseng gone fa re tsamayeng batlotlegi.


18 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY FOR BOTSWANA (NQP), 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 1:00 P.M. FOR APPROXIMATELY 1 HOUR PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 2:00 P.M. “EXCHANGE OF SPEAKERSHIP” MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Order!

We are quorated, may we resume our business this afternoon starting with questions.
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER BOTSWANA HEALTH PROFESSIONS COUNCIL PLEDGE MR M. REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): asked the Minister of Health and Wellness: (i) whether the Botswana Health Professions Council pledge is discriminatory against non-clinician based health professions which are regulated by the same Act that establishes the council as it predominately talks about patient care whereas other health professions under the same council are not providing patient care but health service in the true sense of the definition of health; and (ii) if he is in agreement that the reluctance with which other health professions do not want to identify themselves with the council boils down this pledge itself; if so, (iii) when he will consider amending the pledge such that it reflects the diversity of the Council in terms of the professions governed by the same Council, and when such amendments can be expected.
ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you so much Mr Speaker, and thank you so much Honourable Reatile ka potso.

Ke supe jaana Mr Speaker gore, Botswana Health Professional Council (BHPC) e e leng yone e e kwadisang batho botlhe ba ba dirisanyang le tsa botsogo, fa motho a fiwa setlankana seo o tsaya mo gotweng maikano, o a ikana.

Ke maikano a maleele, a ka tsaya nako yotlhe ya Palamente fa ke ka re gongwe ke a bale Batswana ba a itse.
Fela konokono ya maikano a ke gore, ke ya go thusa motho ke sa sokamele gope, ke dira se se ka mo thusang e bile ke sa sokamise sepe.

Maikano a a tsewa ke mongwe le mongwe.

(i) Kana potso e ne e supa gore maikano a go supa a kgaoganya batho, discriminatory ka Sekgoa.

E bua gore ba e leng non-clinical professionals, mme ba kwadisiwa ke BHPC jaanong ba felela ba ikana o kare they are clinical in nature jaaka dingaka, pharmacists le ba bangwe jalojalo.
Re supe jalo gore maikano a Mr Speaker, ga a farologanye batho ba botlhe ba ba a ikanelang, kana botlhe ba ba kwadisiwang ke BHPC.

Se se dirwa jalo ke gore this pledge, gongwe ke leke go bala golo mo ka Sekgoa ka go ka nna motlhofo, mme ke ne ke tsaya gore ke ne ke dirile summary ka Setswana.

Mr Speaker, it has to be understood that the Universal Health Care that Botswana subscribes to, which provides for a holistic involvement of various professionals around health of any individual or society.
That is access to key promotive, preventative, curative and rehabilitative health intention for all at affordable cost, therefore achieving equality in access to health services.

This is what is defined by the World Health Assembly, sale e tlhalosiwa ka 2005.
Three of these categories of Health Service provision are non-clinical, which informs the inclusion and listing of Professionals in the Health Professional Act, Schedule B for regulations; whereas the curative category remains the only on the clinical health.
Mr Speaker, the question that we have here has made reference to the definition of health, which is quoted as “Health is a complete, physical, mental and social wellbeing, and not merely the absence of disease.” I want to state that this definition of health as described by World Health Organisation (WHO), is adopted and equally used by Botswana.
Although it has been the norm to refer to health services recipients as patients, we have since adopted the progressive practice of referring to those who require non-clinical services as “clients,” and those who require clinical services as “patients.” (ii) The ministry is not aware of any professionals who do not want to identify themselves with the council.
The ministry has however been receiving inquiries from other non-clinical health professions about inclusion into Schedule B of the Act, of which the council has been alerted.

Example of information professionals and counselling.

I do not believe the pledge has nothing to do with any reason why a registered health professional would want to dissociate itself from the council.

As addition of any health profession follows a consultative process.
Ke gore for one to be included kana for a cadre to be included the process is robust.

include health this 19 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER I also want to indicate that non-clinical cadres such as Environmental Health Professionals and Laboratory Technicians to cite only two examples, finally have bearing on care of person, caring for environmental health and providing diagnostic service bearing on persons at individual level.
Subscribing to the pledge Mr Speaker, would therefore be something that a health professional does without any bit of doubt.

(iii) With regard to amending the pledge to reflect the diversity of professions, I would like to inform the House that the Health Professionals Regulatory Framework is undergoing revision.

The pledge will be considered during the overall revision of the Health Professions Act, and the drafting of related legal instruments.
We however take note that every health professional has to take and sign the pledge upon registration, as it is a requirement and not an option.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

MR REATILE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke tsaya gore ke mo tiketse mogala Mr Speaker, o a ikaeletsa.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you.
REVIEW OF SCHEME OF SERVICE FOR SECRETARIAL CADRE MR P. P. P. MOATLHODI (TONOTA): asked the Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration to confirm or deny that the case involving the Review of Scheme of Service for Secretarial Cadre has been on the table without success for over three years and if so:- (i) is the Minister aware that on Friday 14 December 2018; the then Honourable Minister responded to a question by Honourable Majaga stating that; “The parties have met and agreed to form a task team which will look at Directorate of Public Service Management (DPSM) draft Competency Based Career Path (CBCP) and come up with proposals as to where additions or subtractions could be made.
The team is made up of representatives from the employer, the unions, and the affected cadres.
The task team has met and is due to meet again in the new year to continue its work; (ii) and that on Wednesday 11 December 2019, Honourable Polson Majaga made a follow up on the issue and that the answer given then was, “Progress on the implementation of the Court Order in relation to the Secretarial Cadre”; the Honourable Minister replied and said; “Mr Speaker, I cannot give a definite date of the implementation of revised CBCP since the issue is still before the courts.
However, we can assure this House that the consultations have been done, and they have been concluded”; (iii) and further on Tuesday 17 August 2021; Honourable Ramogapi asked the Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration on the said “update on CBCP for Secretaries,” and the Honourable Minister replied that; “DPSM cannot disregard its duty to comply with a court order to bring this matter to finality.
The craft of the matter is that both the employer and the affected unions should find the common through negotiations on all aspects ground proposed for implementation of the court order.

In that way, conclusion could be expedited.


Let me make commitment to this August House that I will personally follow up this matter to ensure that it comes to its finality before the end of October 2021”; (iv) taking into account the three different responses by the Honourable Ministers offering no solution to the CBCP for Secretarial Cadre, how can we believe that this case shall ever receive the most serious attention it deserves with a view to ensuring that this matter gets finalised and if so, when.
ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, in my response to the question asked by Honourable Ramogapi on Tuesday 17th August 2021, I gave a very detailed update and status on the progress made with respect to the issue of the review of the CBCP for Secretarial Cadre.

I had indicated where the problems and challenges were in concluding the matter.
I have further indicated the steps that I would personally take to ensure that this matter comes to finality before the end of October 2021.

At the time of answering Honourable Ramogapi, I had stated that I have therefore instructed the DPSM to ensure that meetings are convened, and the matter concluded before the end of October 2021.

I confirm that the case involving the review of Scheme of Service for Secretarial Cadre has been on the table without success for over three years now.
20 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER Mr Speaker, I am aware of the response that was given by the then Honourable Minister to the question asked by Honourable Majaga on Friday 14th December 2018.

Mr Speaker, I am also aware of the answer that was given to the follow-up question asked by Honourable Polson Majaga on Wednesday 11th December, 2019.

Mr Speaker, I am aware of the reply that was given to the question asked by Honourable Ramogapi on Tuesday 17th August, 2021.
Mr Speaker, this case is being given the most serious attention, as I have already indicated above in response to the question asked by Honourable Ramogapi on Tuesday 17th August, 2021.

I had stated that, I have therefore, instructed the Directorate of Public Service Management (DPSM) to ensure meetings are convened and the matter concluded before the end of October 2021.
In line with my instructions to the DPSM, a meeting was convened and held between DPSM and the relevant trade unions on the 25th October, 2021.

At the meeting, DPSM consulted the unions on how it was going to implement the Cadre Competency Based Career Path (CBCP) in a manner that would address the problems and challenges that I had indicated in my comprehensive response to the question, asked by Honourable Ramogapi on Tuesday 17th August, 2021.
DPSM further indicated to the unions that it wanted to implement the CBCP by the end of October 2021.

The affected trade unions indicated that they needed more time to reflect on the proposals.

Subsequent meetings were held on the 28th October, 2021, 3rd November, 2021, 17th February, 2022, 7th March, 2022 and 21st March, 2022 respectively to allow the unions an opportunity to give feedback with regard to the manner in which DPSM was planning to implement CBCP.
The conclusion of this matter and implementation of the CBCP has been stalled by the constant and endless meetings between DPSM and the affected unions.

The next meeting is expected to be held before the end of the second week of April 2022, with the hope of getting feedback from the trade unions and bring the matter to finality.
It is my expectation irrespective of the final outcome of the next meeting, DPSM might have taken concrete steps to ensure implementation of the CBCP before the end of April 2022.

I agree with all that this has dragged on for far too long.

This back and forth between DPSM and the trade unions cannot continue any further and it must come to an end.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MOATLHODI: Supplementary.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker.


Honourable Minister, you are still making another promise on top of unfulfilled promises in the past, how do we now trust that indeed, you are going to come back with a fulfilled promise this time around?

O kwadile lekwalo?

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Honourable Moatlhodi, fa e ka bo e le ka nna, I could take a decision now.

It would have long been taken.


Unfortunately, it involves us as Government as the employer and the unions as representative of the concerned employees.

Jaanong at a certain point of the negotiations, there must be the meeting of the minds.

Parties have to agree gore this is acceptable to both parties and that is where the problem is.
Fa ba sa dumalane Rre Honourable Pono Moatlhodi, le fa ke ka ba gatelela jang ka kwano, ke gatelela ba rona gore tsamayang le ye go fetsa dikgang, fa go sa dumalanwe ka kwa because the technocrats see as unworkable demands from the unions, ga go ka ke ga fela sepe.

Rona re batla go fela.

We had a position e re neng re e ba boleletse that we feel it was fair.

Fa the unions di ka bo di e amogetse last year, golo mo go ka bo go fedile.
It is only that the unions did not accept the offer or proposal from the side of Government.

Fa ba sa e amogele, ga ba ka ke ba e patelediwa.

That is why re bua mo karabong gore re tlaa nna re ba neela se re se ba neelang, ba tsamaya ba ya go lekodisa.

Fa ba ka tla ba dumetse jaaka gotwe ba ne ba kopane maloba, sengwe le sengwe se a fela.

Ba reye o re ba ye go dumalana le se DPSM e se ba neelang.

Fa ba ka dumalana, go a diragadiwa immediately.


Mo karabong e, re bua gore fa e kare beke e e tlang kana mo dibekeng tse di tlang ba dumalana sentle, re solofela gore DPSM e tlaa tswelela ka go diragatsa court order.

MR MOATLHODI: May God help you to help us.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you sir.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Supplementary.

Tanki Mr Speaker.

Tona, potso e motho a ka go e botsang ke gore, a o lemoga gore karabo e o e fang, e fiwa ngwaga le ngwaga?
Potso ya bobedi ke gore, wa re ke eng se se palelang Goromente gore o ka diragatsa tokafatso ya dituelo kana ya tsa pereko for the secretaries?

Re lebile gore unions di tswa kgakala di sa dumalane le lona kana ka bo tsone fa go tla mo the salary increment ka gore ke ba kwa le kwa.

Le kgona go nna fa fatshe le bone, le bo le dumalana ka the salary increment.

Ke eng le sa dirise tsamaiso eo go thusa secretaries?
Ke eng le kgona go kopana le bone fa le bua ka salaries mme ka secretaries le sa kgone go fetelela mo go yone?

Pharologanyo e tona ke eng?

21 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER ...Silence...

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mthimkhulu, ga o utlwale.

Sorry, MR MTHIMKHULU: Honourable Kekgonegile, ka fa ke neng ke bua ka teng ke gore, keletso ya rona kwano re le Ministers, go ka bo go sa bolo go diragala nako ya fa ke bua le wena Rre Kekgonegile.
O a itse gore ke ne ka boa ka go tlhalosetsa gape personally even outside Parliament gore it is our hope and believe that this should come to an end as quickly as possible.

Go supafala fa e le gore the demands tsa the unions, di a go fetola the gradings tsa secretarial cadres to an extent ya gore entry level ya teng, batho ba ba ka hirwang gone foo, go kgona go ba tswalela kwa ntle mme ba ne ba ile dikoleng, ba dira tiro ya bosecretary.
Go bo go nna le salary structures that were proposed by the unions mme go dira gore go nne le makgwere golo gongwe.

Ke tsone dilo tse e leng gore at the end of the day, di paledisa DPSM, unions le the secretarial cadres gore ba kopanele golo gongwe ba dumalana.

Ke kgang e le e itseng Rre Kekgonegile gore e tshwere.

Ke yone moruthutha wa kgang gore go pala the cost that will be incurred by Government at the end of the day fa go dira the technocrats.
Fa e ka bo e le rona, re le Ministers gotwe re tseye tshwetso, re ka re a ba fetse dipuisanyo.

A go fele, ba diragatse court order.

That is what we told them, and if that is what you want to hear from us, we repeat again, re ba boleletse gore ba tsamaye ba ye go fetsa kgang e. Ba e fetse batho ba neelwe se court order e rileng ke tshwanelo ya bone.

Ke gone fela, unfortunately, the court order did not set out gore go ya go dirwa eng.

Go tilwe go ya go rerisanngwa, go bo go dumalanwa.


The consultation has been done.

Like I said, DPSM e tsamaye e ye go diragatsa se e dumelang gore is the best and justifiable decision to implement in this particular incidence.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: The last supplementary, Honourable Reatile.

MR REATILE: Supplementary.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke lebogele Tona ka dikarabo tse a sa tswang go di baya Palamente pele le mmotsi wa potso.
Honourable Minister, a mme o a bona gore potso e ke monama-o-ya?

E simolotswe ke Honourable Majaga, ya tsena kwa go Honourable Ramogapi, gompieno e mo go Honourable Moatlhodi.

Minister fa a tla ka karabo a tshwana le Honourable Mthimkhulu, o e e fa re itse gore e tswa kwa DPSM.

Ga re dumele gore e kare o sena go ntsha karabo, DPSM e bo e ya go farologana 22 le se wena o se neetseng Palamente.

Ke ka mabaka a a ntseng jang Honourable Mthimkhulu, kgang e, e nna jalo?
Se o se balang, se kwadilwe ke DPSM, but why ba go dira motho yo e keteng ga o na nnete mo setšhabeng le mo Palamenteng ya lefatshe la Botswana?

I thank you my leader.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Speaker.


Honourable Reatile, fa o ne o reeditse karabo ya me, o ne o tlaa utlwa sentle gore ke ne ke rile ka di 25 October, 2021 DPSM e ne ya kopana le ba unions e bo e ba bolelela gore keletso ya bone ka fa ba romilweng ka teng ke gore negotiations tsa bone le kgang e ya bone di bo di fedile ka di 31 October, 2021.

Go teng mo karabong e ke e fileng.

Jaanong fa ba sena go dira jalo go bo go pala.

DPSM e tlile e tshotse sengwe kana mophuthelwana.


Mophuthelwana oo fa e o tsaya e bo e o phutholola fa pele ga bone e bo e re, “re tlile go buisana ka the Secretarial Cadres mme mophuthelwana wa me ke o fa, ka riana; this is what I offer you.” E bo unions di re they do not accept it.

O ne o batla gore jaanong DPSM e bo e re, “okay, I have concluded ke a boa?” That was now the option that DPSM had e re “ke feditse, I am now out of these talks and I have done what I have been sent to do.
It is the 31st of October, I am out and I packed them.

It is a closed matter and my deal is this; take it or leave it,” ba bo ba tla ba dira jalo.

We do not do that in our democratic Government.

We try to talk things out until we reach an amicable resolution.

That is why Court Order e rile go tsamaiwe go ye go dirwa consultation and we consulted up to a time where we felt gore enough is enough and ba DPSM ba ne ba ise ba fele pelo.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Last supplementary Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: No, actually that was the last one.


CONSTRUCTION OF BOROTSI CLINIC K. DR (SEFHARE- GOBOTSWANG RAMOKGONAMI): asked the Minister of Health and Wellness to update this Honourable House on the current state of affairs around the construction of Borotsi Clinic in the Sefhare-Ramokgonami Constituency; he should further state: (i) whether Government the construction of both the clinic facility and staff houses; and is responsible for (ii) when the construction of the clinic will be completed.
Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Thank you Honourable Gobotswang.

Ke supe jaana Mr Speaker, gore lephata le ne la amogela an intention to donate a clinic in Borotsi ka 2008 e dirwa ke kompone e bidiwa Lesedi Interiors (Pty) Ltd. Construction e ne ya simologa ka May 2019 and was scheduled to complete within that same year.
However, the building stalled kana kago e sale e ema at window level for more than two years now as the donor yo o neng a rile o aga clinic e ya Borotsi a supa jalo gore o na le letlhoko la madi a building e a neng a e solofeditse as there was another clinic e a e agang gape kwa Makalamabedi.

O solofeditse jalo gore o tlaa tsweledisa commencement of building clinic ya Borotsi fa a sena go fetsa ya Makalamabedi e e tsweletseng Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, lephata le ne la supa jalo gore le tlaa aga matlo.
Project ya matlo e ne ya simolola ka September 2008 mme e ne e solofetswe gore e tlaabo e fedile ka di 25 tsa ga April 2019.

Ka maswabi, rakonteraka yo o neng a thapilwe go aga matlo a, e ne ya re ka February 2019 a phuaganya project e. E ne ya re ka di 14 tsa ga February 2021, konteraka ya kgona gore e kgaolwe ka fa semolaong (termination of the contract).
Re supe jalo gore lephata gompieno le tsweletse to engage rakonteraka yo mongwe gore a feleletse matlo a mane a a neng a solofeditswe jalo ke lephata kwa motseng o wa Borotsi and the tender is at evaluation stage.

Mr Speaker, the Government or Ministry of Health, ba ne ba solofeditse go aga matlo mme rakonteraka a le responsible for the construction of the clinic.
Construction ya matlo jaaka ke buile, ke tsholofelo ya rona gore ka kgwedi ya May/June, rakonteraka yo re tlaabong re mo thapile go feleletsa a bo a feleletsa go tsamaela kwa bofelong jwa ngwaga one o wa madi.

Le ene the donor yo o neng a supile jalo gore o aga clinic, o supa gore he is mobilising resources ka gore jaanong ke fa seemo se a tokafala.
The project le yone o supa jalo gore it will commence mo tshimologong ya quarter e e latelang ya madi fa a tlaabo a feleletsa e ya Makalamabedi e e leng gore yone e tsweletse.

Le rona re a bona gore go raya gore letsenonyana le ntse le teng mo go rakonteraka.

Ke tsaya jalo gore the donor, e bong Lesedi Interiors (Pty) Ltd, o solofeditse jalo gore e tlaa re mo ngwageng wa madi wa 2023/2024, a bo le ene a feditse se a neng a se re solofeditse re le lephata rraetsho.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Supplementary.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Honourable Minister, ga ke go utlwe sentle mme gongwe le ba Borotsi ga ba go utlwe sentle gore fa le ntse le bua le ene donor, a re o fetsa leng clinic ya Makalamabedi le gore sentlentle a re o ya go simolola leng clinic ya Borotsi?

Sa bobedi ke gore ka gore tota fela donor yo ga se gore o tlamiwa ke ope molao, a ga le lemoge gore o ka nna a felela a paletswe ke go dira clinic e ya Borotsi?

What is your Plan B Honourable Minister?


A le le Puso le beile fela mo go ene?

Potso ya bofelo ke gore a mme Honourable Minister, a o ipaakanyeditse gore o ka ya kwa Borotsi wa go ba neela tlhaloso e ka gore re a ne re tla ka ditlhaloso re leka go ba tlhalosetsa gore nnyaa, gatwe gatwe?

Gongwe go tle ka wena ba tle ba utlwe mo go wena gore o a re seemo ke eng ka clinic ya Borotsi.

Are you prepared to visit and tour this project Honourable Minister?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Fa ke araba ke supile jalo gore rakonteraka o supile gore o ya go fetsa clinic ya Makalamabedi in the first quarter ya financial year e re leng mo go yone a bo a simolola jaanong to mobilise go fetsa clinic ya Borotsi in the 2023/2024 financial year.

O supile jalo gore o tlaabo a feditse this project.
Ke supe jaana gore kana e rile fa re tla mo tumalanong ra bo le rona re re ga ka ke ra salela kwa morago mme re bo re tsenya dikago tsa matlo in the plan gore e se ka e a re fa clinic e fela ga bo go sena kwa babereki ba nnang teng.

Ke sone se re neng ra rulaganyetsa (plan) matlo ao.

Fa rakonteraka a ka boela kwa go rona a re nnyaa, jaanong ke paletswe, go raya gore jaanong clinic e go tlaa re re tsenye mo ditogamaanong gore re tle re tswelele ka go e feletsa fa a emeng teng.
Gompieno o re neetse dates tseo tsa go supa gore o tsamaya fa kae.

Fa a paletswe, ke tsaya jalo gore go tlaa tshwanela gore re tle kwano re simolole to plan for this clinic go e godisa le go e tlhabolola ka fa a neng a solofeditse ka teng.

Ga ke tseye gore ya bofelo e go neng gotwe ke ka ya kwa Borotsi e ka nna kgang e e leng gore Mopalamente o ka e mpotsa fa ka gore nna le ene re dumalane.

E bile ke ene a mphileng mafelo a a eletsang gore ke ye kwa go one.
O rile ke ye Pilikwe, Borotsi le lefelo la boraro.

Ke wena yo o neng o a mpha.

Jaanong ga ke itse a o ne o batla fela gore gongwe re bolelele batho gore re na le tumalano e e ntseng jalo e e leng gore nna yo ke e simolotseng, ke re mphe mafelo a o batlang ke ya kwa go one a e leng gore tsa botsogo di a go tshwenya.

Mme o mphile Borotsi rra, ke ya go ya teng jaaka Palamente e e tswalwa jaana.

Dikgang tse re a go di bua mmogo, e bile ke wena o tlaabong o tswa ka tsone.
23 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER DR GOBOTSWANG: Ee, ba tlaabo ba go emetse sir.
CHALLENGES AT TECHNICAL COLLEGES AND BRIGADES MR G. KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): asked the Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development to brief this Honourable House on progress made to attend to the challenges at technical colleges and brigades, with particular emphasis on: (i) the status of the current students who have not been examined in any of the three stages of their course despite having spent three years in these colleges; (ii) the rationale of a three year certificate course in brigades and technical colleges and when this period will be revised; (iii) the rationale for stopping fishing and boat building/ maintainance courses at Maun Technical College despite its significance to local industries; and (iv) the status of delayed progression payments in colleges and brigades; including how many workers are owed; and in which institutions and when they will be paid.
Later Date.
EFFECTIVENESS AND EFFICIENCY OF BURS TAX COLLECTION MR T. LETSHOLO (KANYE NORTH): asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to apprise this Honourable House on the effectiveness and efficiency of Botswana Unified Revenue Services (BURS) tax collection; and further: (i) what is the value of BURS’ total tax universe; (ii) is the BURS considering on-line connection of cash registers and POS machines to BURS to facilitate auditing; and (iii) articulate the simplicity, or difficulty, of collecting inheritance tax; and (iv) is to the Minister amenable the possible amendment of The Administration of Estates Act to make it mandatory for all deceased estate to be registered with the Masters Office to ease the collection of inheritance tax.
Later Date.

24 SUBVENTIONS GIVEN TO RED CROSS SOCIETY MR W. B. MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): asked the Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration to state: (i) how much subvention has been given to the Red Cross Society in the last five (5) years; (ii) the intended purpose of the subvention; (iii) how the Red cross accounts to Government; and (iv) whether Government knows if the money is used for the intended purpose.
ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Thank you.

(i) Mr Speaker, to Botswana Red Cross Society in the last five years is P20,919,291.95.
total subvention given the (ii) The intended purpose of the subvention is to extend Government support to the organisation in the form of financial assistance to cover its administrative costs as it responds to disaster management, health emergencies, as well as other social challenges in communities countrywide.

(iii) The Red Cross accounts to Government through submission of both annual reports as well as financial audit reports.
(iv) Mr Speaker, I can confirm that Government knows that the money is used for the intended purpose since Government is represented in the board.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MMOLOTSI: Supplementary.

Tona ke botsa gore when was the last time the Red Cross accounted for the money used?

Which is the first question.

Then the second question ke gore, are you aware gore kwa Red Cross go a lowa, e bile go na le dikgang tsa misappropriation of funds tsone tse di tsenang kwa go yone?
Fa e le gore ga o itse gore go a lowa koo, e bile le ditlhopho tsa teng di pala go tshwarega, gongwe o re tlhalosetse gore o tlaa dira jang gore o tlhotlhomise dikgang tse?

Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER Gape Tona ke ne ke re a o a itse gore Red Cross e ne e rekile ditsha mo dingwageng tse di fetileng?

Ditsha tse mo nakong ya gompieno tse dingwe di rekisitswe, mme ba bangwe ba sa itse gore di rekisitswe ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Tse dingwe ga go itsiwe le position ya tsone gore a ke tsa Red Cross kana ga e sa tlhole e le tsa Red Cross.

A o bona e le gore mokgatlho o Tona re ka tswelela re o thusa ka madi mme re sa tsenye matlho a rona go bona gore a tota madi a rona a dira tiro e re e akantseng?

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, Red Cross has accounted last year to the Government, their audited accounts as we speak now are in order with the Government.
Jaanong mo ga dintwa gore, a ke a itse gore go a lowa, ga ke itse, akere jaanong kana re bua ka speculations, magatwe.

E le gore le Motlotlegi Rre Wynter Mmolotsi fa ga a ntsha gore go lwa mang le bomang kwa Red Cross.

I do not know what kind of fighting or infighting he is talking about kwa Red Cross.

Jaanong tota I am constrained to comment much on that.
Gape ke supe gore fa e le gore o bua ka dikgang tsa… ke utlwa a bua dikgang tsa gore go na le misappropriation of funds kwa Red Cross, ka fa a buang ka teng go lwelwa gone, for misappropriation of funds.
Ke re ba Red Cross ba re tshepisitse jalo gore, tota kwa go bone jaaka ba comply in the Government, they do not only comply here to the Government ya Botswana, they also comply to the International Federation of the Red Cross, e e leng gore e bile it sets the compliance standards tsa gore in their matters of finance, how they should comply with their auditing and financial requirements.
Jaanong e bile go supafala fa one of their own, e leng the Secretary General, Rre Kutlwano Mukokomani, yo e leng gore because of the impeccable record ya the Red Cross out of 193 countries tse Red Cross e leng established in those countries, out of 193 countries Rre Mukokomani e bile jaanong o dirilwe gore e nne one of the committee members tsa Compliance and Mediation Committee, at that international level.
Go sena go lebelelwa track record e seng ya ga Rre Mukokomani, track record ya the Red Cross, e o batlang go simolola to dent its reputation ka magatwe Rre Mmolotsi.

Secondly, gape kwa Red Cross we have our member, a Government employee who is a member of its Finance and Audit Committee.

He sits in the Finance and Audit Committee of the Red Cross, ke Rre Boyce… (Inaudible)… o tswa kwa the Auditor General to ensure gore finances tsa Red Cross di tsamaisiwa sentle.
Jaanong ke bone the first people that we expect to raise a red flag fa e le gore go na le mathata a the finance or maladministration kwa Red Cross.

Ga se ene fela, re na le gape yo mongwe yo o emetseng Government in the National Executive Committee yo e leng gore he is also a Government representative in the National Executive Committee, who is the Assistant Director from the Ministry of Defence, who sits in the National Executive Committee of the Red Cross.
Jaanong ke raya gore dilo tse tsotlhe Rre Mmolotsi, ke dumela gore Red Cross e dira sentle, ka gore ga re ise re nne le any formal complaint e e supang gore dilo dingwe ga di tsamaye sentle kwa Red Cross to raise a red flag that may warrant any further investigations into the goings-on at the Red Cross.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MMOLOTSI: Further supplementary.

Tona go a gakgamatsa gore o bo o re ga o itse dintwa tse di kwa Red Cross, mme e le dintwa tse le kwa makgotlatshekelong di setseng di gorogile.
Go setse go kile ga nna le bo arbitration le mediation, mo e leng gore ba bangwe mo teng ga ba batle ba bangwe ba emela ditlhopho.

Jaanong ke ipotsa gore Tona fa o le responsible for this chapter, mme e le gore unfortunately you do not even know gore people that are under your jurisdiction ba setse ba le kwa makgotlatshekelong, golo mo go supa eng ka wena?

Gape ke gakgamadiwa Tona ke gore o bo o re the Secretary General go supa gore ba dira dilo sentle, e bile o tsentswe mo komiting nngwe.
A o a itse gore komiti eo e a tsentsweng mo go yone, ke go tsena ga rotation fela jaaka Tautona Dr Mokgweetsi Masisi a ne a ntse a le ene moeteledipele wa the organ ya politics mo Southern African Development Community (SADC)?

It is just a rotational position e e leng gore ga se e e supang gore Rre Mukokomani o na le botsipa bope jo bo gaisang jwa ga ope mo mafatsheng a a 193 a o neng o bua ka one.
Jaanong Tona, mpolelele gore, fa e le gore ga o kgone go tshwara dikgang tse sentle, re ka botsa mang yo a ka tswang a itse?

Ke ne ke go botsa ka ditsha, sengwe sa ditsha tsa Red Cross se mo kgaolong ya me mo Block 8, se go sa itsiweng gore se rekisitswe jang kana go diragala eng ka sone.

E bile ba ba neng ba se rekile ba setse ba emisitse go aga, ka lebaka la gore go na le dikgang fela tse dintsintsi ka nnetlane eo, mme o a re ga o itse.
Gape o dumela gore Red Cross e dira sentle ka gore, le na le baemedi ba ga Goromente mo teng.

A baemedi ba ga Goromente ba ba koo, a ba tshwere tiro ya bone sentle?

Here ke bua ka madi a setšhaba a so far o tlhalosang gore in the last five years, the Government has spent over P20 million as subvention to the Red Cross.

25 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Speaker.
Tota ke lantlha Red Cross e nna le moemedi kwa the International Committee e re neng re bua ka yone eo ya Compliance and Mediation Committee.

E bile gape fa re tla re tsena fa re re ke rotation fela, re tla to belittle the achievements tsa Red Cross ka go bona mongwe wa bone a ya go nna mo this committee because it is not everybody.

Ga o ka ke wa tsewa fela e bile o isiwa kwa go yone compliance committee ya bone ya International Federation of the Red Cross o tla o sena boleng.
Nnyaa, ga go ka ke ga nna jalo Morena.

Go supafala o itse dilo tsa Red Cross ka bontsi Rre Mmolotsi, o na le interest e ntsi.

Se se diragalang fa ke gore dilo tse di tlang kwano re di lebelela on the basis of audit reports because we need them to audit for us, bring us Audited Financial Reports.

Re a di lebelela gore a di siame, fa di siame, a madi a dirisitswe ka fa re kgotsofalang ka teng.
Kana madi a re a fang Red Cross ke a administrative, a ya go duelwa salaries tsa batho, travel expenses le office expenses.

Jaanong madi a a ntseng jalo a tla a supa gore a duetse salaries tsa batho, a dirisitswe mo transport le mo office expenses, re a kgotsofala.

Ga gona sepe se re ka se senkang beyond that because that is as far as our contribution to the Red Cross is concerned sir.

E ya gore ba ka tswa ba lwela maemo kwa Red Cross ba ne ba ile kwa arbitration, ke kgang ya ditlhopho.
It is normally in any organisation, any democratic setup.

You have experienced them before le wena from your organisation for political groupings tsa Alliance for Progressives (AP).

Batho ba bangwe ba ipelaetsa mo maemong a a tlhophilweng, which is normal but that does not amount to maladministration.

Maladministration is something else, batho ba ingongoregisa gore ga o a tlhophiwa kana ga o a tlhophiwa sentle, that is a totally different issue from maladministration.
Ke motho fela yo o jelweng a ngongoregela ditlhopho.

Jaanong go supa gore gongwe batho ba teng o na le bone golo gongwe, o a ba itse.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MAJAGA: Supplementary.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Good afternoon and thank you Honourable Minister.

Ke ne ke re gongwe motho a botse just a short question Honourable Minister; this Red Cross re a e lebogela, re a itse gore e thusa mo dinakong tse di thata jaaka rona ba re amiwang ke dibetso tsa tlholego time and again.
Ke botse gore the international Red Cross le our Botswana sister, the working relationship e ntse jang?

Do they work harmoniously?

Thank you.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Honourable Majaga, tota the Red Cross ke lekalana la International Federation of the Red Cross.

E emetse the international one mo lefatsheng la rona, ke branch jwa yone.

E bile gape ka fa re neng re supa ka teng, ba dirisana sentle.

That is why o bona mongwe wa bone e bile a tlhomilwe kwa the International Compliance and Mediation Committee.
Ga se gone fela, go na le ditiro tse dingwe tse ba di filweng gape go di dira mo Africa to cover 12 or more countries to represent the International Federation of the Red Cross in 12 other countries here in Africa.

Ke raya gore ke tirisanyo e ntle fela thata, le yone the International Federation of the Red Cross go a supa.

E bile ke tlhalose gore kana the International Federation of the Red Cross, madi a re a ntshang mo Botswana ke P5 million, a a buiwang ke Honourable Mmolotsi.
Ga se one fela, their total yearly expenditure is about P14 million or more.

Part of this money they get is from funding e e tswang kwa the International Federation of the Red Cross.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MOABI: Supplementary.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke utlwa Honourable Mmolotsi ka fa a lelang ka teng ka dilo dingwe tse di sa tsamayeng sentle ka Red Cross.
Go ya ka fa go ntseng ka teng Tona fa o ka lebelela, ngwaga o o neng o feta, Red Cross e hirile banana ba le 3000, ke ba ba neng ba thusa ka contact tracing mo nakong ya segajaja.

120 ke yo o neng a tswa mo kgaolong ya ga Honourable Mmolotsi kwa Francistown South.

Red Cross e thusitse ka dijo tsa batho ba le 10 000 mo Botswana lefatshe ka bophara.

MR SPEAKER: What is your supplementary?

MR MOABI: I am trying to make a foundation for my supplementary Mr Speaker, ke alela kgang ya me.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga o tlhaloganye, madi ao a ne a tswa go sele.

Ao a ne a tswa kwa health monna.

MR MOABI: Mo kgaolong ya ga Wynter, go na le banana ba le 34 ba dithuso tseo tsa early child development, go na le ba bangwe ba le 63, ba le bone ba boneng dithuso tsa first aid training.

Gongwe Tona o ka tlhalosa gore a mme Red Cross ga e dire ka fa o supang ka teng, ke lebile dipalo tse ke di balang tse di tswa mo Francistown South?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Moo ke ditshele, ga ke bue ditlontlokwane.

26 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wynter has invested interest in this matter.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wena wa matlho a mahibidu o didimale.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, go a supa, ke dumalana le Rre Moabi gore Red Cross e dira fela sentle ka ditiro tse e di dirileng kwa kgaolong ya ga Rre Wynter Mmolotsi.
Tota e bile go ne go tshwanela gore Rre Wynter Mmolotsi fa a bua a e leboge, a bua ditiro tse dintsi tse e di dirileng kwa kgaolong ya gagwe.

Mo a go buang mo gontsi jaaka Rre Moabi a bua, tota o bua dilo tse di supang gore o ka tswa gongwe a na le dikeletso dingwe tse e leng gore di kwa ntle, ga di fa pele ga Palamente.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… TABLING OF PAPER The following paper was tabled: REPORTS OF THE AGRICULTURE, LANDS AND HOUSING COMMITTEE FOR THE YEARS 2020 AND 2021 (Chairperson - Agriculture, Lands and Housing Committee) MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Review of the Standing Orders and Composition of all Non-functioning Parliamentary Committees MR MOTAOSANE (THAMAGA-KUMAKWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, ke kopa jalo go ya ka Standing Order 50 as you have already mentioned, gore ke tlise Motion o wa gore re baakanye Standing Orders on an urgent basis.

Can I read the Motion Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: You can read the Motion, but you should indicate the basis of your urgency.

MR MOTAOSANE: Yes, sir, thank you.
First I will read the Motion, “that this Honourable House resolves as a matter of urgency to suspend Standing Orders 102.2 and 107 that prescribe the procedure for the review and amendment of the Standing Orders and for this Honourable House to proceed under Section 76 (1) of the Constitution to make any amendments to its Standing Orders, this suspension would allow for this Honourable House to propose and consider new Standing Orders for purposes of facilitating the business of the House; secondly, that the Business Advisory Committee and the Committee of Selection as reconstituted under the amended Standing Orders, be directed to review the composition of all non-functioning Parliamentary Committees and report to Parliament within 14 days of this resolution.” Mr Speaker, I am bringing this Motion o le urgent because go a lebega mo Palamenteng e, le wena o ka nna mosupi wa me gore re ja nako e ntsi ya Palamente ka go tlhoka go go reetsa.
We are not adhering to the Standing Orders and the procedures of this House.

Standing Orders tse ka fa di ntseng ka teng, re lemogile gore di na le loopholes tse di ntsi tse di dirang gore Ntlo e e se ka ya kgona go laolesega.

Ke bone go le botlhokwa gore ke o tlise ka bofefo jaana ka gore, le fa ke re bofefo, re na le ngwaga kana almost two since re tswa kwa Boipuso Hall re re go ye go baakanngwa Standing Orders.
Ga re a bolo go submit our request gore Standing Orders di baakanngwe ka tsela e e ntseng jaana.

Go a bonala, e bile go a lebega gore the Committee has never sat, e e lebaganyeng le Standing Orders.

Komiti e fa e sa sit jaana, go raya gore Standing Orders tse di ya go nna fela foo di sa baakanngwe.

There is a lot of problems ka Standing Orders tsa rona tse e leng gore le wena gompieno jaana Mr Speaker, o tlaa fitlhela o kare jaanong ga o sa tlhola o reediwa.
Re kgona go tsaya bo 30 minutes, 45 minutes re bua, ke gore mongwe le mongwe a bua fela jaaka go batla ene, le go reediwa o leka to call for order go sa diragale.

Ke bone gore mangwe a mabaka a re tshwanetseng go tlisa Motion o ka bofefo ke gore ga ke eletse gore Palamente e e fele re sa tlisa Motion o gore di Tshutiso tsa rona tsa Standing Orders di ko di bewe fa pele ga Palamente.

Komiti e e kopane, re tle re amend as may be required so that this House could always follow the decorum of this House.
Ke bona gore borokgwe bo itsamaisa sesole, ga go na le fa e le tlotlo le mo go wena tota yo e leng gore ke wena o tsamaisang Ntlo e. Ka one mabaka ao Mr Speaker, ke eletsa gore Motion o o tsene pele ga Palamente e ka tswalela jaaka e tlaabo e tswalela mo bekeng e e tlang, hence the urgency of this Motion.

I submit Honourable Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Motaosane.


Honourable Members, when the Motion was presented to me, I agreed with the Honourable Member that it is 27 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE one that should be allowed to come to the House.

What is left now is for you Honourable Members whether you agree with me and Honourable Motaosane that the matter is urgent.

MR MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): Thank you very much Mr Speaker.
Tlaa ke simolole fela ka go supa gore ga ke dumalane le Tshutiso e, e bile ga ke bone urgency ya yone mo nakong ya gompieno.

Re na le Standing Orders Committee e e leng gore ke dumela gore jaaka Palamente e tswalwa, ke nngwe ya dikomiti tse di tshwanetseng go ya go kopana di lebelele tsotlhe tse di tshwanelwang ke go kopanelwa, gore sengwe le sengwe se re dumelang gore se saletse kwa morago mo go sone, se kgone go sekasekwa.
Se ke se dumelang ke gore, go na le issues tse di ntsi mo Standing Orders tse e leng gore di tlhoka gore di lebiwe.

Gore e bo e le gore dilo tse di dirwa ka tsela e Honourable Motaosane a reng re kopane, come on, come on, ga ke dumalane le gone.

Re batla gore e re jaaka komiti e ya go tsena at the end of our sitting, tota e tsene e lebelele tiro e ka botlalo le botswerere jwa yone.
Kana tota ka fa go ntseng go diragala ka teng, ke gore dikomiti tsa rona gore di kopane, go laola itinerary which is set by the secretariat.

E bo e le gore jaanong on the basis of that, dikomiti di a kopana.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re mogopolo o wa ga Honourable Motaosane, ga o urgent.
E bile fa re lebile gore Palamente e a tswala ka Labone yo o tlang, dikomiti di bo di simolola go kopana, ga ke bone gore re ka beela kwa thoko business e nngwe ya Palamente e e leng urgent re bo re itebaganya le yone Tshutiso.

Ke dumela gore maikaelelo a Tshutiso e, ga se one fela a a buiwang ke Honourable Motaosane.
Go a itshupa, e bile le dikgang di a utlwala gore maikaelelo ke gore komiti e ka gore e eteletswe pele ke leloko la kganetso, le kgone go ntshiwa mo bodulasetilong jwa komiti eo bo isiwe kwa go wa moDomkrag.
Golo mo tota ga go a re siamela re le Palamente gore re bo re sa bue boammaaruri, boemong jwa gore re tlhalose gore nnyaa, e ne ya re nako ele re batla bodulasetilo jwa komiti mme wa kganetso a bo fenya, jaanong re batla go bo tsaya mo go ene, re bo re simolola re tshwara kwa le kwa re re dikgang di rile, Honourable Speaker, ga ke dumalana le kgang e. Mabaka a ga Honourable Motaosane ga se one mabaka, mabaka ke gore ba batla go ntsha Honourable Lesedi mo bodulasetilong ba bo neele moDomkrag.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

(MR KGAFELA): Ke a MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke eme nokeng Tshutiso e ya motlotlegi ya gore kgang e re e tsibogele ka lepotlapotla, tse dingwe tsotlhe di name di e sutetse.
O tlhalositse ka botlalo gore maiteko kana a dirilwe a gore Standing Orders di sekasekwe, mme go lebega e le gore tiro eo ga e dirwe ka gone gore le mo go se sebaka, ga go na recommendation epe e e setseng e sule kwa komiting ntswa tota fa ke mo utlwile sentle, e beilwe dikopo tseo pele ga yone.

Go raya gore rona re le Ntlo, re tle re tseye marapo a gore ka fa tlase ya gone tshetlana ya Section 76 ya Molaomotheo, e bo e le gore ke rona re tsayang tiro e e leng gore we have delegated it.
Ke ya rona re le Mapalamente, mme we delegated it to these committees.

Jaanong fa barongwa ba rona e le gore ga ba dire tiro ya bone, go raya gore re e tseye mo diatleng tsa bone re e dire.

O tlhalositse, ga ke bone sepe se e leng gore se a supafala.

Ke utlwile Rre Mmolotsi, mme ga ke a mo utlwa gore what prejudice does he stand to suffer.

Ke utlwa gore sa gagwe ke go gana fela, mme ga a re sekgoreletsi ke se le se.
Ga a bue sekgoreletsi, ga a bue botlhoko bope jo e leng gore bo tlile go mmaka gore a ingwae, se a se buang fela ke gore, nnyaa ke a gana.

Jaanong kana ga go nke go tsamaisiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, rona re a babiwa, re setse re ngwaya fa go babang teng, go baba gone gore maiteko a gore Standing Orders di baakanngwe, a dirilwe mme barongwa ba rona ga ba dire tiro ya bone.

Jaanong we have suffered prejudice already as a result of that inaction.
Jaanong nna ke a e supa prejudice eo, Rre Mmolotsi ga a e supe.

Ga ke gatelele fela gore go urgent for the mere asking, go urgent ka gore go ama ditsamaiso tsa Ntlo e. Ke sale ke tsena mo Palamenteng e, ke ntse ke utlwa gore go baba Mapalamente gore ditsamaiso tsa Ntlo e di ngapangapiwe, di baakanngwe.

Ka one a le kalo, ke re ke ema nokeng Tshutiso e, e e leng gore ga ke a utlwa kganetso epe fela e e ka amogelesegang gotwe it is a valid opposition.

Ke bona e le kgano fela ya bosimega e seng sepe gape.
Ke eme Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, ke ema Honourable Motaosane nokeng mo kopong e a e tlisang fa pele ga Palamente gore e reediwe ka potlako.
Santlha ke gore nako ya fa re ne re tsaya tshwetso, ke tsaya gore, gore a 28 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE bo re e debate gompieno, e bile go le superfluous fela ke gore tota re bone gore this issue is urgent e e tsileng ka Rre Motaosane.

It is a matter of urgent public importance.


Jaanong ke bua jaana ka gore tota ditsamaiso tsa Ntlo e, ke tsone tse di dirang gore re kgone go tsamaisa its business sentle, e bile e kgona gore e direle Batswana dilo tse re di tlhophetsweng.

Jaanong ka fa go supafalang ka teng, ke gore ever since re simolola, tota e bile go supegile thata maloba fa re bona Mapalamente, one of them e le Rre Keorapetse a tsena mo Palamenteng, a bo a gogagoga leina la ga Tautona mo seretseng.
A bua dilo fela tse e leng gore tota ga o ka ke wa di tlhaloganya gore a mme di ne di buiwa ke motho a tlhoafetse kante a ne a dira jang.

E bile fa a dira jalo, ga go senye Tautona fela leina a le nosi, go senya le Ntlo e, le lefatshe leina.
Jaanong ke dilo tse tota di dirang gore go tswe tsela ya potlako ya gore dilo tse di ntseng jaana, re kgone go lebelela mo rules fa e leng gore ga di a siama teng, ka gore bakaulengwe ba tswa kgakala ba ngongorega ka melawana e e re tsamaisang mo Palamenteng gore golo gongwe e kare ga e a siama, ga e ba gatise sentle.

Re bona gape maloba fa Rre Kenny Kapinga a kwalela lekwalo to the International Committee as a Chairman, a kwala e kare go ne go kwala tumalano ya committee ya gagwe ya Foreign Relations.
E bile a kwala e kete botlhe ba ne ba dumalane jalo, abusing ditsetlana tse di mo melawaneng ya Standing Orders tsa Palamente.

Golo mo go sa senye Palamente e leina fela, go senya le lefatshe la Botswana e bile endangering prosperity e re nang le yone for the past 55 or more years re ntse re ipusa, e re e bereketseng thata.
Ke gone mo go dirang gore gompieno, re bo re le fa re tla ka potlako Mr Speaker, gore melawana e e lebelelwe, gore dikomiti tse di tshwanang le tsa bo Rre Kapinga, di ye go lebelelwa gore a mme di bereka sentle.
Fa re ka ba tlogela gape, re bo re le fa re re nnyaa, go siame re tlaa tla re bona komiti ya bo Rre Lesedi, a bo e sa ye go kopana jaaka gotwe re e tlogele e ye go kopana after Parliament e tsena mo break, ga ba ye go kopana, Rre Kapinga a bo a tla gape ka July gone fa ka the same statement a re o romilwe ke komiti ya gagwe, a senya lefatshe la rona leina.

Ke tsone dilo tse re di buang gore golo mo is very important.
It is a matter of public importance gore melawana e e tsamaisang Palamente e, re e lebelele.

Gore jaaka re bona gompieno jaana, kwa Business Advisory Committee, batho ba lekana ka palo mo teng, mo go dira gore jaanong a bo gompieno re le fa re na le two years re tlhophilwe, melao e e sa kgone go lebelelwa, mme melao e e beile ba bangwe ka fa mosing.
Ke boa gape ke bua gore tota e bile gape, ga go na ope fa mo Palamenteng, yo o ka supang gore fa kgang e e ka tsena ka potlako, golo gongwe o ya go senyegelwa ke sengwe kana he is going to suffer harm in whatever form if this matter is heard on an urgent basis.

Secondly, gape… HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR MTHIMKHULU: Nnyaa, akere we are justifying gore ke eng re tla fa ka potlako.
Re tla ka potlako ka gore dilo tse di ntseng jaana, which you are abusing rules, Standing Orders, go reediwa lona fela e bile gape fa Speaker a re o a kgalemela, bangwe ba lona ba tabogela kwa court go emisa ditiro tsa Palamente e, go senya Palamente le Speaker leina.

Ke tsone dilo tse re batlang gore di lebelelwe.


E le gore jaaka re ya break session, Palamente e fedile, e tle e re fa re tla ka session ya July, re bo re tla melao e tla e siame, re itse gore re ya go tsamaisiwa sentle, tse re di bonyeng tsa matlhabisaditlhong, tsa bo Rre Kapinga le Rre Keorapetse ga di diragale gape.

Mr Speaker, I support Honourable Motaosane on the Motion.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

REATILE MR (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, ke dumela gore Honourable Motaosane o tlisitse Tshutiso e ka fa tlase ga ditsamaiso tsa Ntlo e. Ke dumela gore gongwe Tshutiso ya teng, ga se e e neng e le gore re ka e tlisa ka lepotlapotla gone fa.

Re ne re ka e tlisa ka lepotlapotla mo letsatsing le le tlhabang.

Se Honourable Motaosane a batlang gore se dirwe, re ya go se tseela ditshwetso mo letsatsing la Labone kwa General Assembly gore se a kopang gore within 14 days, General Assembly e ye go tsaya ditshwetso tse di ntseng jalo.
A bo e le gore re tswelela pele ka fa Honourable Motaosane a eletsang ka teng.

Go na le gore re tlise Motion mo Palamenteng Mr Speaker, go sena ope yo o ka arabang (respond) mo go one.

Motho yo a neng a tshwanetse gore a bo a ka respond mo go one, go raya gore ke Honourable Lesedi, e le Modulasetilo wa Standing Orders Committee.
E ne e le gore ka Thursday mo General Assembly, re bo re e fa taelo, timelines di nna teng ka fa Honourable Motaosane a buang ka teng, go na le gore re bo re tla go tsena mo teng ga Palamente, re bo re unyolola boleng jwa Palamente mo setšhabeng, mme General Assembly e le teng.

Mr Speaker, Standing Orders di baakantswe gantsintsi, mme ga go na letsatsi lepe le ikileng Standing Orders tsa tlisiwa fa pele ga Ntlo.
Re bua matshwenyego a bo 29 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Honourable Kgafela le bo Honourable Mthimkhulu ba sa tswang go a bua kwa General Assembly, go tsweng foo, a bo e le gore jaanong re nna le retreat ya Standing Orders re le Ntlo, re bo re ya go tla ka dipaakanyo tse.

E re fa re tsena fa Mr Speaker, a bo e le gore jaanong ke tempa ka bo ka saena, Standing Orders di bo di tsena mo tirisong.
Ke ne ke sa batle gore re ngange gore Standing Order sa gore, Kapinga o rile, no, fa re ka a ja nako Mr Speaker.

Ka one mabaka a, ke dumalana le ene but a e nne kgang ya kwa General Assembly, go na le gore e tle go nna mo House.

I thank you Honourable Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you.

Honourable Rakgare!

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke kopa procedure Mr Speaker, before Rakgare.
Ke kopa procedure ya gore Mr Speaker, a le ka se ke le re thuse ka legal advice gore a mme go tlaabo go tlhamaletse gore Standing Orders tsotlhe fela be suspended, go bo gotwe re tlaa dirisa Constitution?

Ga ke itse gore a golo fa legal advice ya reng?

Ke kopa… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wena yo o sa itseng, e kope.

E ikopele.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ga le mme ka wela bakaulengwe.

Ke ne ke utlwa mmei wa Motion a re nnyaa, jaanong re dirise Constitution, re name re suspend ntlha ya Standing Orders Committee.
Jaanong ke re nnyaa, a re ka se ke re fiwe legal advice mo kgannyeng eo?

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: You know, Honourable Ramogapi, the Motion ga ke itse gore a o badile, o bua ka specific Standing Orders, tse di tshwanetseng gore normally di dirisiwe, go leba Standing Orders.

A bo a re fa go ka dumalanwa gore tseo di name di seegetswe kwa thoko, Palamente e bo e dirisa Section 76 ya Constitution go dira Standing Orders because Standing Orders are made under the power of that section of the Constitution.
Therefore, ga a a re Standing Orders tsotlhe be suspended.

I think you misapprehended him.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke ne ke re ka re tse di in relation to preparation of Standing Orders Honourable Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Ee, ke tsone tse a reng they should be suspended if we agree with this Motion, not all Standing Orders.

MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Thank you very much Mr Speaker.
Ke emela go ema nokeng kopo ya ga Honourable Motaosane, ke e ema nokeng jaana gore a re seegele ditsamaiso tsa Palamente kwa thoko gore pele ga Palamente e re leng mo go yone e tswala, re bo re kgonne go sekaseka these Standing Orders.

Mr Speaker, Palamente ga e ka ke ya tswelela ya nna yone go sena Standing Orders tse di nitameng jaaka rotlhe re eletsa.
Mo go a bong go gakgamatsa ke gore, e bo bangwe ba supa gore go siame fela komiti e ka nna foo ya nna dingwaga tse pedi le go feta, e le foo fela e le thaba e e sa sutisiweng, ba sa batle gore ba dire dipaakanyo tse di tlhokafalang.

Golo mo Mr Speaker, re tshwanetse re bone gore re dira jang ka gone, e bile e se ka ya nna komiti ya Standing Orders fela, ka gore golo mo e tlaabo e le paakanyo ya di tsamaiso tsa Palamente, kana melawana e e re tsamaisang re le Palamente.
Ba ntse dingwaga tse pedi le gofeta go sena sepe se se diragalang.

Mr Speaker, dilo tse ke nnang ke ngongorega thata ka tsone mo Palamenteng e, ke gore Palamente ya rona o kare ga e na molao.

Go ipuelwa fela, go rogwa batho, we distort facts, and ka ditsamaiso tse di leng teng mo nakong ya gompieno, ga gona jaaka re ka kgona gore re dire dipaakanyo.
Re ne re ithaya re re rotlhe re fa re tlhaloganya gore mme gone Palamente e lebelelwa ke Batswana le bana mo malatsing a gompieno, ga e sa tlhole e le bogologolo, mme ditlhapa le ditlhaselo tse re di utlwang di buiwa mo Palamenteng, e bile mo gongwe go tlhaselwa batho go sena mabaka le boammaaruri.

Dilo tse Mr Speaker, re tshwanetse re bone gore re di baakanya ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Ga re ka ke ra tlhola re tswelela re letlelela motho a whole Member of Parliament Mr Speaker, a raya Mopalamente yo mongwe a mo raya a re, “fa e le gore o na le mathata le yo o mo nyetseng, ke eng o sa motlhale bogolo.” Imagine mafoko a a ntseng jaana, a buiwa mo Palamente ya setšhaba.

Ke dilo tse di maswe tse re tshwanetseng gore these Standing Orders re ye go di baakanya, di kgalemelwe.
Le lona Mr Speaker, le tseye control ya Ntlo, dilo tse di tshwanang le tse le tshwanetse le di kgalemele, ka gore golo fa ga re mo Palamenteng fela go dira melao, re mo Palamenteng gape go kaela ba ba tswang kwa tlase gore Palamente ya lefatshe la Botswana go ya ka thaego kana go tswa kwa thaegong ya yone go fitlhelela fa re leng teng go ntse go diragala.

Re tshwanetse re somarele ledula, re sireletse dignity ya Ntlo e ya Palamente.

Re ka kgona fa re baakantse these Standing Orders.


Ke emela fela gore ke rialo Mr Speaker, ga gona jaaka Palamente e ka tswelela ya tsamaya sentle, go sena the Standing Orders.

Ke sone se re emang Honourable Motaosane nokeng.

30 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Batho ba senngwa maina Mr Speaker, le ba ba seng mo Palamenteng.
Mo gongwe motho o tlaabo a senya motho leina fela, le fa e bile o kare point of correction go a pala, ka gore ba itse gore Standing Orders di ba sireleditse.

O a ne o utlwa motho kamoso fela a re, ngwana wa Internship o ne a tshwareletse a D1 officer, something which has never happened and is not allowed.

Fa gompieno o tsholetsa letsogo o re “ga go tualo, o latlha setšhaba,” jaanong e nna molato o mongwe o o maswe.

Re tshwanetse re bone gore re dira jang Mr Speaker.
Tota e bile fa e ne e le nna re ka bo re seegela sengwe le sengwe fa thoko sa gompieno, re buisanya these Standing Orders, re di baakanya.

Gore Ntlo ya rona e nne le tsamaiso, e seng mantlwane a re nnang re a bona a diragala, le ditlhapa tse re nnang re di utlwa tse.

Tse batho ba ngongoregang ka tsone, batsadi ba a ngongorega ka ditlhapa tse e bile ba kganetso re di utlwang mo go bone, ba rogana mo Palamenteng …(Interruptions)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of Order.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.


MR RAKGARE: …(Inaudible)… Mapalamente ba ba tsenetseng go rogana mo Palamenteng.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke ema mogopolo wa ga Honourable Motaosane nokeng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: On a point of order.

MR SPEAKER: Point of order, Honourable Saleshando.

THE OPPOSITION LEADER OF (MR SALESHANDO): Point of order.

Mr Speaker, le fa a re o a leboga, o leboga gore a bo a re o dule from the floor.
Ga re amogele mafoko a ga Honourable Rakgare, a a reng ditlhapa di utlwalelwa mo go ba kganetso.

Ga a re buise sentle, ga a bue boammaaruri, o re tlhokela botho.

Ke ene a kileng a bua mo Palamenteng e a re manega fela rotlhe a re rotlhe re magodu, le fa o utlwa a re batho ba bua dilo ba a reng, tse di tswang ka legano la ga Honourable Rakgare go le gantsi di ka go sisimosa mmele.
Ya gompieno e a e buang, e a reng ba kganetso ba ntsha ditlhapa, ke kopa gore a e boele morago, ka gore Standing Orders ka fa di kwadilweng ka teng gompieno ga di letlelele ditlhapa.

Fa motho a ntsha tlhapa, go bolelelwa Speaker a bo a boela mafoko ao morago kana a bo a ntshiwa mo Palamenteng.

So Mr Speaker, ga ke amogele mafoko a re a manegwang a gotweng ditlhapa di tswa mo go ba kganetso.

Ke kopa gore Rre Rakgare a a boele morago.


MR SPEAKER: Gongwe you ...(Inaudible)… too precise…(Interruptions)… kana, speak HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gone di tswa kae?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kwa go wena.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Rakgare.

MR RAKGARE: Mr Speaker, ke tsaya gore mo godimo ga sekai se Rre Saleshando a se bayang, se a itseng gore ga se maleba, ka gore I was responding to the attacks tsa ga Honourable Keorapetse on our President, a bua gore Tautona ke legodu.
I said okay, fa e le gore go buiwa fela jaana mo Palamenteng, ee, go raya gore lona le le Mapalamente a kganetso le a senya fela lotlhe, go raya gore mongwe le mongwe o ka bua gore le magodu.

I am very disappointed gore, a whole Leader of the Opposition (LOO), e bo a ntsha tse a reng ke ne ke di bua e le ditlhapa, mme e ne e se ditlhapa, a itse sentle gore I was responding to the attacks tse di neng di tswa mo go Honourable Keorapetse a tlhasela Tautona, a nyenyafatsa Tautona.
Golo moo e bile ke ne ke dumela gore ke tlhapa, ka gore go ne go na le mabaka a a neng a a ntsha.

Jaanong Mr Speaker, ga gona sepe se ke se buileng se se molato.

Go builwe mo Palamenteng e Mr Speaker, ke kile ka botsa gore a golo mo ke golo mo go siameng.

Mopalamente wa kganetso a raya wa Domkrag a re ke eng o sa tlhale bogolo, in Parliament.
What is this Mr Speaker, dikgang tse di ntseng jaana, should we celebrate go nyenyafadiwa bomme, go buiwa dilo tse di ntseng jaana re mekamekane re le Puso ka dikgang tsa go fokotsa tlhalano mo lefatsheng le, re itse botlhokwa jwa lelwapa.

Jaanong, Honourable Saleshando a re re eme dilo tse nokeng, no I cannot agree le ene.
Re tshwanetse dilo tse re di kgaleme Mr Speaker, ba a itse gore Ntlo e ya Palamente ke ditlhapa le ditlhaselo tse di seng kana ka sepe tse di tswang mo go bone, ba tlhasela Tautona, Mothusa Tautona le Puso, ba re bitsa magodu every single day.

Ba ne ba gogagoga Mma Mokgethi fa, gotwe o tsere dithoto tsa batho, o tsere polase ya batho, ba itse gore golo mo ga se boammaaruri.

Ga gona le fa e le sepe se ke se buileng se se molato Mr Speaker, a re tswelele pele Rre Saleshando o batla gore re ntsha mo tseleng.
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Rakgare, I think you replied, you did the basis for your statement to which Honourable Saleshando was objecting.

We are better off re e tlogele e le fa.

31 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kekgonegile o tshwanetse go boela mafoko a morago, o ne a sa mpuise sentle.

MR SPEAKER: ...(Laughter!)...

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR SPEAKER: Let us continue with the debate.
Honourable Lelatisitswe followed by Honourable Hikuama.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you so much Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, ke dumalana thata le mogopolo o wa gore re seege sengwe le sengwe re reetse Motion o re o beilweng pele.

Ke supe Mr Speaker gore, mo lefatsheng le la rona le re dirisa motlhale wa ditlhopho, ga se motlhale o Puso e tlhakanelwang.
Jaanong go ntse maswabi thata gore, e rile fa go tlhopiwa dikomiti ke Mapalamente, ba bo ba tsaya komiti e e lebeletseng dintlha tse ditona tsa lefatshe le tsa go tsamaisa Palamente, ba e neela Mapalamente ba ba leng babedi fela mo Palamenteng.

Go raya gore Batswana ba ipotsa gore, a re ka tsaya Puso ra e neela batho ba le babedi.

Ke gone mo e leng gore fa komiti e tshwanetse gore e kopane, go nna thata.
Kana fa ba le babedi fela mo Palamenteng, ba a itse gore ditshwetso tse ba di tsayang ga se tsa lefatshe le lotlhe.

Jaanong ke sone se o bonang e re Palamente re sa bolo go bua, gore a re lebeleleng dintlha, bone ka ba babedi fela mo Palamenteng, jaanong thata kana e filwe Modulasetilo.

MR MOTSAMAI: Point of order Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, ke batla o kgalema dikgang tse dingwe; re tlaa ikarabela.

Ga re a ka ra ikopela go neelwa komiti.

Re fitlhetse go tsamaisiwa jalo mo Palamenteng.


Mopalamente Lelatisitswe ga a mo tseleng ka gore e nna jaaka e kare e rile re goroga, ya bo e nna selo se se dirwang.

Re fitlhetse go dirilwe melawana eo go tsamaisiwa gore batho ba ba batlegang mo komiting eo, ke bomang le bomang jalojalo.

Ga re a dira sebe sepe.

A se ka a re tlaopa, a re sukunyetsa ditsamaiso le mafoko ganong.

Ke kopa a boele dikgang tseo morago Mr Speaker.

Gape ga re babedi; batho ba bangwe ba siile ka ditilo tsa rona.
Fa le le bantsi, batho ba bo ba tsamaya, ga o ka ke wa tla go kgobotletswa gore le babedi fela.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A mme ke point of order?

MR MOTSAMAI: He is out of order.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Golo mo ga se point of order.

MR MOTSAMAI: Ke point of order.

O dule mo bodeputy o ntshiwa ke go sa reetsa gone mo.

MR SPEAKER: A ko re fetseng kgang e, tseo tsa lona tsa gore batho ba babedi kana ba bararo, le tla di seka mo lefelong le sele.

Ga ke itse gore ba ba kae.


Re ne re lebile Mapalamente fa ba tlhophiwa go tsena mo dikomiting.

MR LELATISITSWE: Mr Speaker, ke batla go tlhatswa kgang e, ke se ka ka e tlogela e tlhatlagana ka gore e rile fa ke reetsa Mopalamente Rre Wynter Mmolotsi, o ne a bua gore re batla go ntsha Lesedi re tsenya moDomkrag.

Nnyaa, ke le Lelatisitswe, ke a dumela.

Ga re ka ke ra tsaya dikomiti ra di neela Mapalamente a a tlileng a le mabedi fela ba tswa mo motseng o mongwefela gore ba tsamaise lefatshe le.
That is why o bona ba diegile (delayed) gore komiti e, e kopane ka gore ga ba na interest ya lefatshe.

Ba na le interest ya motse o mongwefela wa Serowe.

Rona re na le interest ya lefatshe.

Golo moo e ne e le phoso e tona gore batho ba nne fela, ba bo ba neela batho ba tswa mo motseng o mongwefela.

Fa re bua ka Domkrag, e tletse lefatshe le lotlhe, jaanong batho ba lebile rona.

Motion o wa ga… HONOURABLE MEMBER: A o nyatsa ditlhopho tsa batho ba Serowe?
MR LELATISITSWE: Ga ke di nyatse, ga ke ba nyatse.

Gakere o a itse gore mo lefatsheng le, phathi e e nang le Mapalamente a mantsi ke yone e e tsamaisang lefatshe.

Fa motho a kganela (block) ditlhopho le go tsamaisa Palamente, a itse gore ba tlile fela ba le babedi o kare nnetlu, mahatlha a podi… MR SPEAKER: O tswe mo go tsone, o tloga o rogana.

MR LELATISITSWE: Rraetsho, a kgang e e tsene re leke go baakanya seemo se.
Palamente e tswelele ka gore lefatshe le lebile rona re le ba Domkrag gore re a tsweledisa, re ya kwa pele.

Se re ka se dirang ke gore ka bofefo, re baakanye Standing Orders gore dilo tsotlhe di tsamaye.

Ga ke na mathata le batho ba go ntseng go buiwa ka bone.

Mr Speaker, golo mo gape ke lantlha go diragala.

Ga ke mosha mo Palamenteng mme re iphitlhetse re tsere dikomiti tse di botlhokwa re di neetswe batho ba ba sa tlhophiwang go tsamaisa lefatshe.
Phoso eo re tshwanetse re e baakanye, mme e baakanngwa ke rona re le Palamente.

Komiti e dire golo mo gotweng delegated powers… 32 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa tlhaloso Rre Lelatisitswe.

MR SPEAKER: Re utlwile.

I thought what Honourable Lelatisitswe is saying, in his view… MR LELATISITSWE: Nnyaa, o tlaa tla o tlhalosa Mopalamente wa Maun.
Kana le wena batho ba Maun ba tshwanetse go itse gore o Mopalamente wa bone, jaanong fa o tla kwano o ipitsa Tautona wa Botswana Congress Party (BCP).

Dilo tse ke tsone tse di diang go tsamaisa lefatshe.

O Mopalamente fela wa kwa Maun, mme o ipitsa Tautona wa BCP.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR MMOLOTSI: Procedure Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Honourable Lelatisitswe o ntsha Ntlo e mo tseleng.

O a itse gore golo mo a batlang go go dira ke lantlha go diragala.
Standing Orders tsa rona ga go na gope fa di kwadilweng gore Chairperson wa dikomiti tsa sennanne e tshwanelwa ke gore e bo e le wa phathi efe kwa ntle fela ga Public Accounts Committee (PAC).

E e leng gore yone, it is stipulated gore it has to be chaired by a Member wa opposition.

Honourable Lelatisitswe o batla to insinuate gore dikomiti tse di tshwanelwa ke go okamelwa (chaired) ke ba ba fentseng ditlhopho, nnyaa, o ipuela fela.

O a itse gore he is misleading the House and members of the public.
E bile gape Honourable Lelatisitswe, I think he is being extremely tribalistic go supa gore Honourable Lesedi le Mathoothe ga ba ka ke ba tsamaisa dikomiti e le batho ba ba tswang kwa motseng wa Serowe.

Golo moo ga go a siama.

Ke gone mo e leng gore Mr Speaker, go tlaa re lotlhanya re le Batswana fa e le gore mo national television, Lelatisitswe o ka kgetholola batho ba Serowe ka tsela e a ba kgethololang ka yone.

Mr Speaker, a itebaganye le dilo tse di botlhokwa, a itebaganye le Motion o o fa.
A tlogele go tshwara kwa le kwa go sotla; Saleshando o rile, o ipitsa moBCP.

Ke tsaya gore he is an old Member of Parliament (MP) yo o tshwanelwang ke go aga dikgang tsa gagwe ka tsela e batlhophi ba gagwe ba ka bonang gore golo fa re emetswe ke motho yo o itekanetseng.

Ke a leboga.

MR LELATISITSWE: Wena Wynter o didimale, o nosi fela.

Ga re ka ke ra go neela komiti epe.

You are only one.

MR MMOLOTSI: Re tsaya gore bodulasetilo Mr Speaker, bo fiwa ka competencies.
Go bonwa gore motho yo o ka kgona go tsamaisa komiti.

E go neng gotwe… MR MMOLOTSI: Okay, in his view.

MR SPEAKER: …and that is the reason he wants the Standing Orders to be looked at quickly.

In his view, what was done, in accordance with the Standing Orders, was wrong and need to be changed.

That is the what he is saying.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: The urgency ke go ntsha batho ba Serowe.

MR SPEAKER: Batho ba Serowe o ka ba ntsha jang?

MR MMOLOTSI: A rialo Lelatisitswe.


MR SPEAKER: Mafoko a batho ba Serowe ga ke itse gore a tsena fa kae.

MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ba ne ba setse ba nkgoreletsa mme ke tsaya gore you have clarified the issues gore lefatshe le le tsamaisiwa ka mofuta o o ntseng jang.

Ke sone se e leng gore urgency ya dilo tse, e a tlhokafala.
Rre Wynter o a itse gore mo Palamenteng e e fetileng I was chairing about six committees ka gore re ne re ka se ka ra letlelela… Dikomiti di tshwanetse to represent se batlhophi ba se dirileng.

Fa e le gore Puso e, e neetswe Domkrag, that proportion e tshwanetse e supafale le kwa dikomiting.

Ke sone se re neng re se dira gore e se ka ya re kamoso, go bo go nna le kgang e re e bonang gompieno.

Re tshwerwe ka molala ke batho ba e leng gore Puso ga e mo diatleng tsa bone.
Golo mo ga re a tshwanela gore fa re bua ka gone, re bo re boela kwa morago.

Kgang e e tlisitsweng ke Rre Motaosane, ke dumalana le yone.

Wynter o a itse, e bile o dumalana le yone, ke gore letsatsi le o ipona a apara kobo e nngwefela le BCP.

O dumela gore ke jaaka a tshwere teemane.

O a itse gore BCP le Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) di na le kgang e e mo tafoleng.

Ga ke itse gore kwa e welang teng, o tlaabo a le fa kae.

Legale ka ene o nosi, o ka nna a felela a boetse kwa go rona.
Re ka mo amogela, gakere ke ngwana wa rona.

Ke ne ke tsaya gore bokete jwa kgang… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke Motion gone moo?

MR LELATISITSWE: O a itse gore se re se batlang ke gore dilo tsotlhe di tswelele rraetsho.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, we are in a democracy, do not debate.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke yone urgency ya Motion?

33 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE MR LELATISITSWE: Urgency ya Motion ke gore, re batla go baakanya sengwe.
Re busetse dilo mo tseleng ka fa di ntseng di sa tsamaye sentle ka teng.

Ka one mafoko ao rra, ke leboga se Honourable Motaosane a re se beileng pele.

A re se lebeleleng ka bofefo.

ke ba ba busang go ba ntsha mo limelight kana the mainstream ya Puso kana ya go tsamaisa Palamente e ba e tlhophetsweng gore ba nne kwa mahureng, ba se ka ba bonwa ba dira sepe, ba nne fela e kete ga se sepe mo Palamenteng.

Ke go tlhoka lesego le le gakgamatsang.

MR HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Ke a leboga Honourable Speaker.
Mma le nna ke tshwaele mo Motion wa ga Honourable Motaosane.

Ga ke na go supa gore a ke Motion o o tshwanetseng go tsena kana jang ka gore ga ke bone urgency ya one.

Le fa ke sa bolo go bona botlhokwa jwa go fetola Standing Orders ka tsela nngwe, mme urgency ke yone ke sa e boneng.

Ke bona batho ba ba setseng ba na le mowa o o maswe wa go busa esi le go sa tlhaloganya tiro ya Palamente gore ke eng.
Fa o bona motho a bua gore ga re buse rotlhe mme a itse gore re mo Palamenteng rotlhe, e e leng ya rona rotlhe, e re romilweng ke Batswana mo go yone rotlhe, o bo o itse gore motho yo o latlhegetswe ke tsela, le lone lesedi la go itse gore o bua a le fa kae, ga a kgone go tlhaloganya.

Ke one mathata a re nang le one.


Ke dumela gore ba dirwa ke gore mongwe le mongwe wa bone o a supa gore ke la ntlha ba bona Palamente e through their committees e e kgonang go dira Executive le Puso gore e itebaganye le se ba se batlang, ba batla the accountability.

Jaanong ke la ntlha ba bona, ga go phoso gore Mapalamente ba bo ba dira tiro ya bone, ba bontsha ba ba busang tiro gore ba tshwanetse gore ba dire eng, ba dira ditiro tsa bone ka manontlhotlho.
Bone ba tlwaetse dikomiti tse di galaletsang le go duduetsa megolokwane le fa Puso e senyang teng le fa e gataka ditsamaiso.

Ke sone se ba se tlwaetseng.

Jaanong ka gore Palamente e e na le pharologanyo, e batla accountability le responsibility from the Ministers and the country as a whole, ba bona e le selo se se sa siamang.

Fa re ka tswelela re re re dumalana le kutlwisiso ya mofuta o, ke go busetsa lefatshe kwa morago.
Batho ba teng ga ba batle go ganediwa, ba batla go busa ba le nosi, ba batla gore e kete batho ba ba dikgaolo tse di tlhophileng kganetso ga ba na lentswe le ditshwanelo tsa gore le bone ba utlwe dikeletso le dikakanyo tsa bone mo mehameng e e farologaneng le mo dikomiting tsa Palamente.

Ke go tlhoka lesego gore our democracy is regressing.
Le gone go tlaabo go tlhabisa ditlhong gore mafatshe a mangwe a a tswang kwa morago le a a batlang go ithuta a ntse a utlwa gotwe Botswana is democratic and shining example of democracy.

Fa o dira dilo tse di ntseng jaana, o anega lefatshe la Botswana le go le tsenya mo matlhong a batho gore Mapalamente fa a sena go tlhophiwa go nna le kgethololo e e dirwang Mr Speaker, ga ke itse gore urgency ya Motion o tota ke eng?

Ga ke kgone go lemoga.


Go buiwa ka gore motho mongwe... HONOURABLE MEMBER: A re elucidate re tle re utlwe gore urgency ke eng.

MR HIKUAMA: Ao!

Le wena Minister fela wa ofisi e tona fela e e kanakana o iketsha Mma Monnakgotla?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)...

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A ko o lese to abuse… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): On a point of order.
Ke tsaya gore o horokilwe ke leleme because ga o ka ke wa tlhasela motho yo o sa go rayang sepe le gone e le mme o dirisa fela go mo kgetholola fela le go mo nyenyafatsa mo pele ga setšhaba.

Ke itse gore Motlotlegi Hikuama ga se motho yo o ka bong a akanya jalo.

Ke motho yo o akanyang fela sentle yo o itseng Setswana fela sentle, gongwe o horokilwe ke leleme.

A a kope maitshwarelo mo go Mma Monnakgotla, ga a a mo rumola.
Jaanong o tsaya fela gore sengwe le sengwe se e leng gore o a se nyenyafatsa o ka se tshwantshanya le Mma Monnakgotla.

Ke kopa gore motlotlegi a dire jalo.

Baherero ke batho ba ba tlotlang basadi thata ke a ba itse.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Hikuama, I am sure you did not intend to offend but the way you put it, it would offend Mma Monnakgotla, it is just better to retreat o tswe mo dikgannyeng.

MR HIKUAMA: Ga ke itse gore ba re mathata a bone ke eng?
Kana Mma Monnakgotla ke ene yo o ratang go ntira jaana fa ke bua, jaanong yo ke mo tshwantshanya le gore a le ene o simolotse tiro e e dirwang ke Mma Monnakgotla fa ke bua?

O tlhola a dira jalo.

Jaanong ke gakgamalela gore a le ene Minister yo motonatona wa ofisi e tona e e tlotliwang ya Office of the President, o simolola go gata mo ditlhakong tse di dirwang ke Mma 34 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Monnakgotla?
Kana Mma Monnakgotla is doing that dinako tsotlhe fa ke bua.

Ke sone se ke neng ke dira reference her.

Jaanong fa e le gore le ene o a join a a bue fela gore “ke a join” re bo re feta, ga se kgang e e ka tsosang dingalo e e ka buiwang, bo Vice President ba tsena mo go yone mme ba tlhola ba sa kganele Mma Monnakgotla fa a dira jalo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, Motlotlegi Hikuama tlhe monna, nna ke siame le fa o ntlhasela, se tlhasele Mma Monnakgotla a sa go raya sepe, tlhasela nna.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mma Monnakgotla ga se monalebogole.

Mo tlogela o tlaa… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Se tlhasele Mma Monnakgotla a sa go re sepe, ga a go re sepe, tlhasela nna Hikuama.

Se ntshabele mo go Mme Mma Monnakgotla.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba abuse basadi, batho ba a ba bona, batho ba ba ikgatlhang ka go tshwenya bomme.

MR HIKUAMA: Mr Speaker, a mme ke tlaa tswelela kana Mapalamente a matona a Domkrag ke mokgwa o ba batlang gore ba o dire ka Standing Orders?

Ba batla go dira mo go ntseng jaana?


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le tlwaetse go nyenyafatsa basadi mo Palamenteng e. Honourable Hikuama, le nyatsa basadi mo Palamenteng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O tswa kae wena wa boswa jwa batho?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mo ja boswa jwa beng.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!

)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gone kwa Domkrag.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gakere o a utlwa Mr Speaker?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke boswa jwa beng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O a di utlwa dipuo tsa teng Mr Speaker?
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke yone urgency e re e batlang gore re kgalemele dikgang tse.

MR SPEAKER: Whereas in a way you have a point, which is factual, le ya go tsaya tsa maloba le bo le di tlisa fa gompieno, it just does not go down well.

MR HIKUAMA: Ee rra.

Nnyaa mme go siame mma ke ikope maitshwarelo mo tsaleng ya me e bile e le neighbour ya me Mma Monnakgotla.

Gape ene o ne a sena mathata, ke gore o tsenngwa bongala ke bone ba ba tsenelelang dilo tse, ene o ne a sena mathata le kgang ya teng.
Mma ke tswelele ke re bo Motlotlegi Lelatisitswe ba bua kgang ya... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Motlotlegi Hikuama, ke kopa gore o mpuise sentle, kwa Kgalagadi North ga ba batle.

MR HIKUAMA: Ehe, tanki.

Ke ratile mo go maswe gore go bo go bua wena.

Go raya gore go tswa mo letsatsing la gompieno, ga o ka ke wa tlhola o dira se o tlholang o se dira mo go nna, then I will never mention your name.
Jaanong a re e tseye gone fa gore jaanong o simolotse go ka behaviour sentle fa o bua le nna, le nna I will respect that.

Ke a leboga.

Ke ne ke re ke bue jaana gore bo Honourable Lelatisitswe ba bua gore fa batho ba fentse ditlhopho ba tshwanetse gore ba control sengwe le sengwe mo Palamenteng.

Palamente ke ya Mapalamente botlhe jaaka ke setse ke buile kwa ntlheng.
Mapalamente botlhe ba tshwanetse gore ba nne le seabe mo tsamaisong ya dikomiti tsa Palamente le mo tsamaisong ya Palamente yotlhe ka kakaretso.

Kgang ya gore go fetolwa Standing Orders gore di ntshe Mapalamente a kganetso mo dikomiting, tota ke mogopolo o o sa siamang.
Le wena o le Speaker o utlwa gotwe Palamente e dira melawana e e direlang go ntsha Mapalamente ba ba filweng boikarabelo, e bile ba ba nang le tshwanelo ya go nna Mapalamente mo Palamenteng ya Botswana, tota e tlaabo e le Palamente ya mofuta ofe?

Ka mantswe a a ntseng jalo, re tlaa utlwa ka gore fa o bona ba setse ba tsere tshwetso... HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): On a point of clarification.

Thank you Motlotlegi Mopalamente Hikuama.


Nnyaa, kana gongwe ga re utlwale sentle, ga re utlwane sentle.

Ga go a twe go ntshiwa Mapalamente a kganetso mo dikomiting.

Motho yo o neng a bua la ntlha o ne a fa sekai ka Business Committee e e leng gore re two, two mo go yone.

Mme kana fa re le two, two mo komiting jaana, ga re reflect se e leng gore ke composition ya Palamente ya rona.

Kana these committees are an extension of Parliament.

Normally fa re di bitsa ra re they are an extension of Parliament.
So, fa party e nngwe e na le bontsi mo Palamenteng mme e bo e le gore le tla 35 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE le lekana mo komiting, ga go nne sentle.

Ke sone fela.

E se gore ba a ntshiwa, ba tlaa tsena mo dikomiting tse dingwe, mme the ratio must be there e e supang gore golo mo ke extension ya Palamente.

That is all.

MR HIKUAMA: Ke a leboga.


Ga ke dumele gore ke sone se se batliwang ka gore, even mo dikomiting tse re leng mo go tsone that ratio has been maintained.

Ga ke dumele gore go na le komiti e Mapalamente a kganetso a fekeetsang a Botswana Democratic Party.

Ga go na mo dikomiting tse di leng teng.

Se se buiwang ke gore, go tsewe Bodulasetilo jwa dikomiti tse di tsamaisiwang ke ba kganetso.
Ke sone se e leng gore it is an unfortunate kind of thinking, e e leng gore ga e a tshwanela go nna mo bathong ba ba sa bolong go tsamaisa puso ya batho ka batho.

Kakanyo fela e e bosula e e leng gore ga ke itse gore… MR MMOLOTSI: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Thank you Honourable Member.


Ke re ke clarify gape Honourable Member gore, kana go ya ka Standing Orders ka fa di ntseng ka teng gompieno, fa dikomiti di tlhophilwe jaaka di tlhophilwe, it is for the life of Parliament.

Ka tshwanelo jaaka go tlhophilwe jaana, ka fa re itseng ka teng fa go saleng go tswa kwa go neng go tswa teng fa dikomiti di tlhophilwe jaana, di ya go wela le Palamente e. That is why gotwe they are for the life of Parliament.
Ke sone se gompieno bakaulengwe ba utlwileng botlhoko, ba palelwa ke go itshoka two years gore fa e le gore ba tlaa boa ba tle ba nne mo dikomiting tseo ba di etelele pele.

MR HIKUAMA: Ke a leboga Honourable Speaker.

Ke digele ka dintlha tse pedi.

E nngwe… ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Rre Hikuama, ke a utlwa o ne o ngongorega gore go batla go ntshiwa Chairmen tsa dikomiti tse dingwe tse di eteletsweng ke ba opposition.

A mme o bona go siame, go tshwanela gore Chairman a itseele tshwetso a le nosi ka gore ke Chairman, and communicate with the entire world as if the committee had met and resolved in that action?

A go siame gore a e tseye a le nosi fela, a dire bokgokgontshi kana bobusanosi?

I thank you.
I thank you.

MR HIKUAMA: In principle, le fa ke sa itse se o se buang gore se na le boammaaruri jo bo kae, se ke se itseng ke gore komiti gore e ntshe statement e a bo e kopane, Modulasetilo o dira se a se laetsweng ke komiti ya gagwe.

Le fa ke sa itse gore wena o buela mo go afe.

Ke re ke akgele mo dintlheng tse pedi gore ke wele Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Ya ntlha ke ya gore, Honourable Lelatisitswe, fa a bua ka Mapalamente a mabedi a supa gore ka ba emetse motse o le mongwe, ga ba na tshwanelo ya go etelela dikomiti, ga ba na tshwanelo ya go nna mo dikomiting.

O nyatsa tlhopho e e diragetseng kwa dikgaolong tseo.

O nyatsa batho bao gore bone ga ba a tshwanela go nna le seabe le gore Mapalamente a bone a rongwe ditiro tsa Palamente.
Ke kgang fela e e leng gore it is unfortunate, e le wena o le Modulasetilo, o le Moeteledipele wa Palamente, ke dilo tse di tshwanetseng go go tshwenya, di go ngongoregise, di nne a cause for a serious concern.

Ka gore fa e le gore komiti e na le Mapalamente a Domkrag a mantsi a a fetang a kganetso, a bo ba bona go tshwanela go tlhopha motho yoo go nna Modulasetilo gatwe tsamaiso e a bo e sokame fa kae?
Ka gore batho bao ba ne ba sa tlhophiwe ke batho ba kganetso, ba ne ba tlhophiwa ke Mapalamente a a mo komiting eo, e bile a le mantsi e le a Domkrag.

Ga ke itse gore gatwe bothata jwa kgang e ke eng?

Ka mantswe a a kalo Mr Speaker, mme re fete Motion ka gore o tlaa feta.

Gongwe re tlaa tla go tlhaloganya, re utlwe gore gatwe mabaka a ba a buang ka afe.

Ke a leboga.

FOR PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): On a point of procedure Mr Speaker.
Ke re let us debate this Motion, re simolole debate sir.

Ka gore jaanong se se diragalang fa now people are busy debating.

Ke a kopa mongwame ka boikokobetso gore a ga se gore re tsene on the debate, Rre Motaosane a reediwe, re utlwe gore a reng.

So that we debate sentle rotlhe, re phuthologile.

MR SPEAKER: You cannot debate the Motion unless the House agrees that it should be debated.
MR MORWAENG: Ee, mme mongwame ke ne ke kopa gore ke dumalana le mogopolo wa ga Motlotlegi Rre Motaosane, gore Motion o be debated ka bofefo, le dikgang tse di ntseng di buiwa gone jaana go a supega gore go botlhokwa to debate.

Fa o utlwa motho a kgona go bua fela a re, “fa go tlhophilwe batho five years ke five years, ga go na gore go katweng.” Go tlhamaletse gore go na le go kgoreletsa tsamaiso ya Palamente jaanong.

Kopo ya me ke re, go botlhokwa gore let us debate.

Ba tshaba eng to debate Motion o?


Let us debate, re ntshe mabaka re phuthologile.

36 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE MR SPEAKER: Honourable Morwaeng ga o a reetsa.

The Motion before the House is to ask for leave to bring an urgent Motion.

MR MORWAENG: Ee, mongwame ke yone e ke reng I support it.

I support kopo ya ga Rre Motaosane gore a fiwe tshwanelo ya gore Motion o be debated.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Leuwe.


MR LEUWE: Ke lebogo le le gologolo Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Oh!

MR LEUWE: Thank you.

MR SPEAKER: Ke filwe maina a mangwe, ga ke itse gore… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, ao ke a to debate Motion Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Yah, assuming that the Motion will be passed.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ee rra.

MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)…Now I see.


A re direng jaana, because I think both sides have been... (Inaudible)… I will call the last person ke lebile the number and then we go to the Motion, whether you give leave or not.

The last person to speak is Honourable Kapinga.

MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you Mr Speaker.

I think I will reserve my points for the main debate if we get there.

I think my colleagues have covered the issues I wanted to cover.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you.

I thought so.

Yone re e tshotlhile.


Honourable Members, I think we have covered the issues that can be raised.

Therefore, we should now put the question seeking the permission of the House.

Question put and agreed to.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motaosane, you may now present the Motion.

MR MOTAOSANE (THAMAGA-KUMAKWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke leboge Mapalamente.


Ke leboge wena pele go bo e rile mo kopong ya me o sekaseka, wa bona gore Tshutiso e ke e kopileng e tle go tsena mo Palamenteng gore Mapalamente ba e tšhotlhe go bona gore a mme e botlhokwa go tsena, e buiwe mo nakong ya gompieno.

Mr Speaker, ke batla go supa fela gore ke tshwenyegile, re na le lebaka la dingwaga tse pedi le half re le mo Palamenteng e e fano.
E sa le fela go tlogela ka ngwaga wa 2020, ga lemosega mo Standing Orders tsa rona gore dingwe tsa tsone di ka tswa di sa dire sentle.

Palamente ya tsaya tshwetso ya gore go sekasekwe Standing Orders ka maikaelelo a go di tokafatsa gore re di tsamaise sentle re le Ntlo e. Mr Speaker, jaaka ke ne ke tlhalosa ka Section 76 of the Constitution of Botswana, e re letlelela re le Palamente ka fa tlase ga tshetlana eo gore go tshwanetse ga nna le melawana e e tsamaisang Palamente.
Ka boammaaruri e teng mme dingwaga jaaka di ntse di tsamaya go a bonala, go a itshupa mo Palamente ya bo 12 gore dingwe tsa tsone ga di bereke sentle.

Selo segolo se se mpateletsang go tlisa Tshutiso ke gore go sa le go nna le Standing Orders Committee, ga e ise ka letsatsi lepe e nne teng e tsene, e dire tiro ya go sekaseka Standing Orders gore a di siame, ba tla ba tsenya kgakololo mo Palamenteng.
Golo mo ke bone go ntshwentse Mr Speaker, ka gore ke gakologelwa sentle fa re le kwa Boipuiso Hall re bua ka Standing Orders tse.

Ga bo ga nna le another tool e e bidiwang gotwe ke code of conduct ya Mapalamente, le yone ya tsena ya lejwalejwa mme ga ise e ko e salwe morago go fitlhelela gompieno re ka bua ka yone gore e ka re supegetsa tsela ya boitshwaro jwa Mapalamente gore fa ba itshwara ka sebopego se se ntseng jaana, go ka diragala eng.
Ke bona go tlama Mr Speaker, gore ga re ka ke ra tsamaya lebaka le le kana la selekanyo sa two and half years.

Le fa o bona ke o tlisitse ka tshoganetso jaana, mme o ka itemogela gore fa morago fale, go setse go na le dingwaga tse pedi tse di tletseng re ntse re kopile gore Standing Orders di baakanngwe.

Ka jalo Mr Speaker, ke bone go le botlhokwa gore ke tlise Tshutiso.
Mabaka magolo Mr Speaker, jaaka ke ntse ke tsamaya ke buisa diphuthego tsa Dikgotla mo kgaolong ya me, batsadi ba tshwenyegile go se kana ka sepe ka fa Mapalamente re itshwarang ka teng.

Ga se bone fela ba kwa ga Thamaga le ba dikgaolo tsa me, le bangwe ba nna ba letsa ba botsa gore tota ke eng le dira jaana Mapalamente.

Selo se Mr Speaker, ke bone se sa beye Palamente ya rona mo selebegong se se siametseng gore Batswana ba kgatlhegele go lebelela Palamente.
Bangwe ba bone ba a mpolelela gore rona fa gotwe Palamente, ke tima television, go botoka e bile mo gongwe ke reetsa mo seromamoweng.

37 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Ke tlaa fa dikai Mr Speaker; gone mo Palamenteng e, le wena tota ke dumela gore tshireletsego ya gago ga e a nitama.

Tla ke fe sekai; one of the Parliamentary sessions e e fetileng o se teng, your Deputy Speaker o ne a tlhaselwa ke Mapalamente.
Ba tsamaya fela ba mo tlhasela, ba ya go tsena kwa Chamber ya gagwe ba batla go mo lwantsha, ga bo ba bitswa mapodise.

Dilo tse ga di re beye sentle mo matlhong a setšhaba, ga se tsone di supang gore motho o a bo a na le kgololesego ya go bua ka fa a batlang ka teng.

Go feta foo, Mapalamente ao ba ne ba boa gape ba tla go tlhasela Mopalamente yo mongwe mo ofising ya gagwe, ba tima le Personal Computer (PC) system ya gagwe, a ne a le on the floor a bua.
Mr Speaker, I am one of the people ba ke ratang go didimala ke reetsa Mapalamente fa ba bua... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Taosi, bua fela gore ke Dumelang and his thugs.

MR MOTAOSANE: Nnyaa, ke kopa gore re e tshware foo.

Ke dumela gore go ne ga tla le nako ya gore… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke maitseo a re buang ka one gakere.

MR MOTAOSANE: …ke leke gore dilo tse di ntseng jaana Mr Speaker, ke bone gore enough is enough.
Ke kope Ntlo e tota ka gore ga re a bolo go dira Ditshutiso tsa rona mo Standing Orders, di teng ke dumela gore re di tshotse gore di tle go buisanngwa ke Palamente.

Komiti e fa e sa tsene, ga gona jaaka di ka tla on the floor of Parliament gore re tle go di buisana.

Ke eletsa gore batlotlegi ba ntheetse ka tsebe le mowa o o oleng, ke ntse ke utlwa fa go buiwa Motion… MR KAPINGA: Procedure.
Mr Speaker, motsamaisi wa Motion a re o tlisa Motion a tshwenyegile ka jwa Mapalamente mo Palamente e. boitshwaro Mongwe wa Mapalamente fela gone jaana, o ntse a bua ka Mapalamente a mangwe a re Dumelang and his thugs, a raya Mapalamente a mangwe.

I think fa e le gore re a baakanya, re simolole go baakanya gone jaana, Honourable Healy a kgalemelelwe mafoko ao, a se ka a tlhola a a bua mo Palamenteng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kgalemela Keorapetse pele.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: They were thugs, they were behaving thuggishly.

I stand by those words.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mme Healy ene o right, gakere fa e le gore we are led by thugs, go tlaa nna fela gone jalo Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Ee gakere jaanong o a kgetholola, o bitsa bafe a re ke thugs.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ehe!

go tlaabo go letlelesega gore le nna ke reye ba bangwe jalo fela?
MR SPEAKER: That is what we do not want, that is why ke re he is out of order.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nna fa o ka nthaya, ke a go latela Carter.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ao Mr Speaker, batho ba ne ba re ba a mpetsa fa wa re ke out of order?

That is thuggish behavior.

MR SPEAKER: Fa e le gore ...(Inaudible)… on the floor and we are not debating whether or not you were attacked, that is not the issue before us.
We do not have the floor for the first …(Inaudible)… and we are not debating whether anybody attacked you.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re gakgametse gone gore I am not on the floor, and then rules Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Gakere gone jaana ba a go utlwa.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Motaosane o bua ka wena, wena ka fa o mo tseneletse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Jaaka o tsenelela jaana Ramogapi.

Hei!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wena kana o hiretswe nna fela ka baki e o kareng tante ya leso.
MR SPEAKER: Hold your horses o tsenelela dikgang.

The mover of the Motion is making a very good submission, jaanong o tsamaya o mo kgaupetsa.

I will park you and will see what happens.

MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke kope Mapalamente fela jaaka Speaker a sa tswa to rule, ke kopa gore side remarks le di iketleleng ke bue, le tlaa fiwa nako ya lona.

Ke tsone dikgang Mr Speaker, tse ke neng ke leka go supa gore ofisi ya gago, e setse le yone e kile ya tlhaselwa.
Le dipuo tse tsotlhe tse o fitlhelang re di buisana mo Palamenteng le tsa ba ba seyong go ka ikarabela, di nna di tsena mo Palamenteng.

Dilo tse Mr Speaker, ga di re lebise Batswana kwa ntle kwa sentle.
Jaaka 38 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE o kile wa utlwa fela ke ikopela gore tota ke eng re sa emise kgaso ya television, kana go phatlalatsa lenaneo la Palamente mo television le mo radio ka gore di a ntshosa, di ntsitsibanya mmele.
Le bagolo fa ba ntse ba ngongorega jaana ba bua ka dikgang tse mo go rona, mme ba eletsa go re reetsa gore tota maikaelelo a rona ke eng ka gore re fano re tletse go buelelela Batswana ka dikgang tse ba itseng gore di a ama.

Bread and butter issues tse e leng gore di ka neela Motswana sengwe se a ka se tsenyang mo ganong.

Melao e e leng gore e tlaa neela Batswana tsholofelo ya gore lefatshe le re le isa kae re le Mapalamente a a leng teng mo Palamenteng ya bolesome le bobedi.
Mr Speaker, ke etse tlhoko gape gore fa gongwe Standing Orders tsa rona jaaka di le teng, especially Standing Order 58 fa ke sa fose, se se tlhamaletseng gore motho yo mongwe fa a le mo floor, ba bangwe ba tshwanetse go mo reetsa.

Jaanong golo mo ga go diragale, le a bua gantsi Mr Speaker, le leka go re kgalemela, mme it is not happening.

Batlotlegi ba nna ba buisanya mafoko a o sa tswang go utlwa ba a bua.
I was so surprised maloba ke utlwa go buiwa gore in a modern democracy ga re a tshwanelwa go bonwa re bua mo Palamenteng re itshwara ka setho se se rileng.

Ka gakgamala mo go maswe gore if modern democracy is go rogana mo Palamenteng, kana go buisa ba bangwe e seng sentle, then I do not know what is a democracy.
Dilo tse ke tsone tse di nkgwetlhang gore fa re ka tsamaya ra tswelela, nako ya gore re ye ditlhophong e etla Mr Speaker, mo go yone, o tlaa lemoga, go tlaabo go le so heated mo e leng gore mongwe le mongwe o ipatlela phatlha ya go ya go batla ditlhopho.

Palamente e e ya go tswa ka fa tlase ga taolo le go feta.
Ka gore jaanong le wena gape e tlaa re le o ntse jaana o le Speaker, e bo e re o re o tsaya kgato, e bo e le gore dikgotlatshekelo di nna teng, di batla to overturn the ruling ya Standing Orders tse re di ipeetseng gore di tsamaise Ntlo e. Gakere morwarre o ne a le molato go itsheka, but this can bring fear mo the leadership of this House gore e tsamaise Ntlo e e phuthulogile.
Kakanyo ya me ke gone gore Standing Orders tse fa re di baakanya, re tle re kgone to insert clauses tse e leng gore jaaka fa re tlaabo re di dira jaana, tshwetso e e tserweng ke Speaker, e bo e le gore it cannot be challenged ka tsela epe.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, go raya gore letsatsi lengwe Ntlo e e tlaa tlhoka go bereka ka gore mongwe le mongwe ke yo o ka tsamayang a ya go itsheka a re Speaker ga a tsaya tshwetso e e siameng.

Se ga se ka ke sa re baya sentle Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Se sengwe se ke ntseng ke utlwa fa go kganelwa mafoko a gore Motion o ka tsena wa sutisiwa, nnyaa Mr Speaker, ke tlisitse Tshutiso e ke ikobile, e bile ke e tlisa ka maikaelelo a go baakanya seemo se ke bonang Batswana ba sa se itumelele se se fa pele ga rona.
Ga ke a re ope a tseelwe dithata tsa komiti, dikomiti tse ke itseng gore ke a di tsena gompieno jaaka ke bua jaana Mr Speaker, two thirds ya tsone di tsamaisiwa ke badulasetilo ba diphathi tsa kganetso, mme ga ke ise ke re bodulasetilo bo ka tsewa mo go bone.

E bile tsamaiso e ke e tlhomamisang, ke e itse ke gore, yo re mo tlhophileng, re mo tlhophile.

Ke bua thata ka dikomiti tse e leng gore they are non- functional.

Komiti e re buang ka yone e ga e bereke.


Ga e ka ke ya nna selekanyo se se kana e ise e ko e tsene.

Modulasetilo wa komiti ke ene a tshwanetseng to cause gore go nne le phuthego ya komiti e e rileng.

Ee ba ka mmolelela tse ba di mmolelelang ka madi, mme ga e ka ke ya re mo dingwageng tse pedi, komiti e bo e ise e ko e tsene le fa e le gangwefela.

Dilo tse ga di a re siamela Mr Speaker.


Ka jalo, ke eletsa go kopa bakaulengwe gore a re lebeng kgang e ka mowa o o edileng, o maikaelelo a one e leng go baakanya tsamaiso ya rona gore e kgone go tswitifalela le ene yo o e tsamaisang gore a e tsamaise a itebagantse le dintlha tse di botlhokwa, a sa kgorelediwe ke ka fa re tsamaisang dikgang tsa rona ka teng.
Mr Speaker, one of the committees; ya Business Committee e e leng gore gantsi le a kopana le bo le bua, le tla go re bolelela ka fa e leng gore le eletsa kana le dumalanye eng le le Business Committee gore e tle kwa Palamente, a bo e tla mo gongwe mo General Assembly re bo re ka tla go e buisana, gantsi ga ba dumalane.

Jaanong fa gongwe ba tlaa nna ba bua se ba se buang, le se bua ka koo, kana ba tsere ditshwetso, e re fa ba tsena fano, ba bo ba boa ba feta ba ganetsanyana fa pele ga rona.
Golo mo go dirwa ke gone gore this Committee fa e le even, ga go ka ke ga nna le tshwetso e e siameng ka gore there has to be someone yo e leng gore he breaks the tie fa e le gore batho ba babedi ga ba dumalane, ba babedi le bone ba bua jaana.

A go nne le yo e leng gore ke ene a lekang go nna wa boraro, go leka gore go nne le tshwetso e e leng gore e tlaa re fa e tserwe teng kwa komiting ya lona, e bo e dira gore e bo e le a binding resolution ya komiti.
Dilo tse Mr Speaker, fa re sa di baakanye gompieno, ga re ka ke ra tlhola re bona sebaka sa go tsweledisa komiti e re phuthologile.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke sa eletse go tlatsa Motion wa me leswe ka tsela epe.

Ke eletsa gore re tsepamise matlho a rona mo go se ke se buang.
Gongwe bakaulengwe 39 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE ba ba neng ba debate when supporting gore Motion o tsene, ke dumela gore e ne e le ga fela gore Motion o kgone to be debated, mabaka ba tlaa a ntsha.

Ga ke mo dikgannyeng tse ke di utlwileng di ntse di buega fa re bua ka Tshutiso e. Maikaelelo ame fela ke gore Mr Speaker, re baakanye Standing Orders tsa rona ka bofefo jo bo ka kgonagalang.
Re ya go tsena mo second Parliament ya July e e tlaa bong e tsena re tla ka Bills.

O tlaa ntumela Mr Speaker, gore re kgona go tsaya more than nako e e beetsweng to discuss Bill e le nngwefela e le gore some 30 minutes, 45 minutes re e tsere fela o kgalema.

Dilo tse re tshwanetse gore re di baakanngwe.

MR MOTSAMAI: Hee rra, hee Bakgalahari, o jwe mogochwe, heela!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Heela, bitsa leina la motho sentle.

Gore o Mokgalagadi ga se issue.

MR MOTSAMAI: Weni waanye, waanye legona?


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Motaosane.

MR MOTSAMAI: Mmitse ka koo, e tlaa re re bitsa ka phoso… ...Silence...

Mr Speaker, ke kopa go fa Honourable Saleshando, Honourable Hikuama le Honourable Motsamai clarifications, ke utlwile ba bua.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba mo kgaotse.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SALESHANDO: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.

A Rre Mataosane o a lemoga gore… MR MOTAOSANE: Honourable Motsamai, you are eating on my time.
Can you go directly to your point sir?

MR MOTAOSANE: Motaosane sir.

MR SALESHANDO: My apologies.

Honourable, a mme o a lemoga gore bontsi jwa ba o reng ba go eme nokeng, maikaelelo a bone ga se a wena o a buang?

A bone ke go fetola dikomiti, ba ntshe ba kganetso ba tsenye ba party e e busang.

A go a go itumedisa gore o bulela setswalo se e leng gore se ya go tsenya dikgang tse o neng o sa di batle?

E le ya ntlha.
E le ya ntlha.

Ya bobedi, ke le leloko la Business Advisory, ke go baakanyetse Honourable Motaosane ka gore ke nna mo komiting eo, wa re go le gantsi ga go dumalanwe.

The Speaker is also a member, o ka go rurifaletsa gore dinako tse go sa dumalanwang it is possibly 1 out of 10.

A mme e kare komiti gangwefela mo lesomeng e sa dumalana, ra bo re tla re re re tle go nna fa fatshe ka lepotlapotla re fetole Standing Orders, ka gore le yone Palamente gone fa, go le gantsi ga re dumalane?
Tiro ya Palamente ke yone eo, gore go tsewe dikgang, ga gotwe go tlaa dumalanwa nako nngwe.

O ipaakanye foo gore ga se gone jaaka o bua kwa Business Advisory.

Le gore fa e le gore ga o batle dikgang tse o neng o sa di ikaelela gore di tsene, ke eng o sa baakanye Motion gore o itebaganye fela le Standing Orders Committee ka gore wena wa re matshwenyego a gago a gone koo?

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MR MOTSAMAI: Mr Speaker, ke botse Rre Mataosane gore a ntshedimosetse fa… HONOURABLE MEMBER: A ko tlhe le bue leina la ga Motaosane sentle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Can I come in Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Yes, come in Honourable Hikuama.

MR HIKUAMA: Point of clarification.

Nnyaa, ke a leboga Honourable Speaker, ke a leboga tsala ya me Honourable Motaosane.

Ke ne ke re o mphitise ka dintlha tse tharo.

Ya ntlha ke ya behavior ya Mapalamente gore o fitlhela e le gore fa gongwe ga e kgatlhise.
I do not think maitseo a a tshwanang le a a dirwang ke bo honourable ba bangwe, ke se ka ka ba bitsa, ditsala tsa me bo Mthimkhulu le bo Healy, o fitlhela fa gongwe ba dira botho jo dinako tse dingwe bo kgoreletsang Palamente.

A mme wa re gone mo, go ka idiwa ka Standing Orders kana ke kgang ya Code of Ethics like you were saying le ka fa motho a batlang go itsaya sentle ka teng?

O raya gore ke selo fela se se baakanyediwang Standing Order gore go laolwe botho le boitsholo jwa motho, a mme di ka kgona?
Ya bobedi e ke batlang go go e botsa ke ya gore the Speakers, gongwe fa a tsere tshwetso, they will be challenged gongwe kwa dikgotlatshekelo kana kwa kae fela kwa motho a ka bonang teng gore gongwe o ka direlwa bomolemo teng.
Wena mo seemong se re nang le Mapalamente, the Speakers, ba tswa mo phathing e e rileng, e bile ba tsaya letlhakore, o bona fela ba debate Motions, ba ganana le one, go tswa fa a bo a ya go nna Speaker ka kwa, a batla go kgoreletsa batho ka gore o batla position ya phathi ya gagwe, le ka fa ene a akanyang ka teng, e le Mopalamente gore go dirwe, a bo a sa tseye batho ka tekatekano.
Wa re 40 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE golo moo go tlogelwe fela, motho a se ka a itsheka gope kwa ba ka mo sireletsang teng?

Go tlogelwe fela ka gore go tserwe ke Speaker?


A mme le wena ga o bone gore gongwe nako e tsile fa e le gore the Speakers di ka nna le ditshwetso tse di final gore gongwe di itlhophelwe, go nne le lebokoso la bone fela fale, ba sa amane le diphathi tse di tlaabong di phadisanya kana di iteisanya borathana mo Palamenteng?

Gore a nne more impartial go gaisa.

Ke a leboga.

MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai, unmute yourself, ga o utlwale.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go raya gore go na le problem, ke mo utlwa a goa fela next door.

MR MOTAOSANE: Honourable Motsamai, are you there?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke ka tsena ka clarity?

MR SPEAKER: Ke yo ke a mmona, mme o a bua ga a utlwale.

MR MOTAOSANE: Mr Speaker, nte ke arabe ba babedi ba ba setseng ba buile, Honourable Motsamai, re tlaa mo fa chance fa nako e le teng.

Ke tlaa fa Honourable Mthimkhulu thereafter le Honourable Reatile.

Mr Speaker, nte ke arabe tse pedi tse di boditsweng.
Honourable Leader of the Opposition (LOO), nte fela ke se ka ka dumalana le wena mo ntlheng ya ntlha e ke rileng ga go dumalanwe kwa Business Advisory Committee.

Nnyaa, le a dumalana le le ka koo, mme gantsi go itshupile mo Palamenteng e, gore fa le sena go nna le tsena ka kwano, gongwe mo General Assembly, go a itshupa gore le tla jaanong o kare le tlhatlhamolola tumalano ya lona.
Go itshupile, many times, I can mention dinako tsa gore re ne re bua ka eng, le fitlhela e le gore ga le dumalane, mme le ne le tswa ka kwa Business Advisory Committee le dumalane.

Eo ke a dumela gore kwa go lona le a bo le dumalane, but you come in front of us, le bo le tla le sa dumalane.

Ke bona e le a very ugly situation and le bo le thatafaletsa le ene Speaker tsamaiso ya gore a dire ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Like when?


MR MOTAOSANE: E nngwe LOO jaaka o bua gore ga... nnyaa mongwame, ke tlhamaletse, ke kopa Tshutiso e ka maikaelelo a gore re baakanyeng.

Ba ba debate ka fa ba debate ka teng, it is their opinion, it is not my opinion or not necessarily what I have brought this Motion for.

Gore komiti e tshwanetse gore a bo e le Mapalamente a phathi e e rileng gore ba nne bantsi jang, kana go ntsha bangwe mo bodulasetilong, nnyaa, ga ke foo, ke bua ka amendment of the Standing Orders.
Ka fa Palamente e tlaareng fa Ditshutiso tsa amendments di nna ka teng, le bone go siame gore go diragale ka teng.

Ke fa, ke gore komiti e, ga e tsene, therefore the Standing Orders ga re nne le opportunity ya gore di tle fa, amendments re di bone, re bone tse re ka di tsenyang le tse re ka se keng re dumalane le tsone.

Ga ke foo LOO, mme fela ke go utlwile.


Honourable Hikuama, behavior; le wena o a itse fela gore ga re dire sentle golo mo Palamenteng, ga se go itshwara sentle gore e re tsamaiso ya Palamente e le teng ya gore fa Mopalamente yo mongwe a neetswe floor gore a bue, ba bangwe ba bo ba ntse ba dira side remarks tse e bileng di bua, ga ke itse gore ke ka dirisa lefoko lefe Mr Speaker, go supa go ikokobetsa ga me, mme o tlaa fitlhela nako e ntsi, mafoko a a buiwang fa, e le a a tlhabang pelo ya motho.
Ka jalo, ga ke bone gore a motho o ka mpotsa potso e e tshwanang le e ka gore o etle o bue Mr Speaker, o bo o re, “nna ke tswa Mapoka” gore ngwana wa Motswana, go tlhamaletse, o rutilwe Setswana, o rutilwe tsamaiso ya boitsholo.

Jaanong fa o bona e le gore we defy you, mo re felelang re bua jaaka re batla, re rogana, re dira eng, ga se mo o ka kgonang go re fetola wena, fa e se re leke go go fetola ka molao Mr Speaker.
Wena tsala ya me e e tlotlegang Hikuama, o a itse gore gompieno fela jaana, dikgang tse le ntseng le di dira fa, ga ke dumalane le tsone, ga ke di batle.

Wa re the Speakers ba tsaya letlhakore, nnyaa, gore Speaker o tsaya letlhakore, bo Speaker, nako e ntsi, ke itse ditshwetso tsa bone ba di tsaya ba ikaegile mo molaong o o leng teng, mo the Standing Orders di leng teng.

E a bo e le your own... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.
MR SPEAKER: The Honourable Member is answering the questions that has been put to him, there is nothing out of order about that.

Honourable Motaosane, continue.

MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you sir.

Bo Speaker, ke dumela gore ba tsaya ditshwetso tse di lebaneng, ba lebile tsamaiso ya Ntlo e, ga go na fa bo Speaker ba tsayang letlhakore teng.

It is all about your judgment, ka le a bo le sa dumalane le bone, mme ba a bo ba dira tsamaiso, therefore, ga ke ka ke ka re bo Speaker ba tsaya letlhakore.
Eo ga ke dumalane le wena mo go yone, ke gore fela le a bo le sa dumalane, jaanong le batla go ba 41 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE tsosetsa tlhatlharuane e e sa tlhokafaleng.

Wa re Speaker a itlhophelwe, ke tsaya gore Speaker jaaka gompieno jaana, re mo itlhophetse, box ya gagwe e ne e le mo Palamenteng e, re le Mapalamente re ntse jaana, re le 63, re tlhopha gore a Speaker Skelemani ke ene yo re mmatlang.
We did that and he was voted in by majority.

Therefore, o tshwana fela le rona ba re tlhophilweng kwa dikgaolong, ke gore ene ga a tlhophiwe ke setšhaba se se kwa ntle.

Ka tsamaiso ya lefatshe, o tshwanetse Speaker a tlhophiwe ke Mapalamente, re mo itlhophetse.

Let us respect him.

Re le Mapalamente re fano, re na le some immunity, fa gongwe o buile sengwe o le mo Palamenteng, some allegations, ga le nke le bona batho ba ya go le sekisa, ka gore le na le immunity eo.
I want the Speakers to have that immunity, ya gore e se ka ya re fa a tsere tshwetso e amana, a e tsere ka the Standing Orders ka fa di buang ka teng, a bo e le gore jaanong he is put into the corner, ya gore a ye go sekisiwa kwa dikgotlatshekelong, that is not right, e bile you want the Speaker to operate outside the parameters of this House, that is wrong.

Ke sone se ke sa dumalaneng le sone.

Ke tsaya gore ke di arabile.


Mr Speaker, Honourable Mthimkhulu le Honourable Reatile, e bile ke ne ke lebetse go mo latlhela mo teng ka gore o ne a buile ntlha ya botlhokwa ya General Assembly, unfortunately, Motion o ne o setse o tsene.

O ka bo o nkgakolotse mo malatsing tsala ya me Reatile, ke ka bo ke go reeditse, ga ke kgatlhanong le se o se buang, mme gongwe fa o ne o buile before I brought the Motion, ke tla go o buisa, ke ka bo ke ne ka go reetsa gongwe ka tsaya route e o neng o bua ka yone.
Mr Speaker, ke eme gone fa, ke kope Honourable Mthimkhulu le Honourable... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga re ke ne ke kopile clarity, Motaosane.

MR MOTAOSANE: Ee, through the Speakership.

ga e sa tlhole e le wa gago.

Gore Motaosane o akanya jang is neither here nor there; batho ba tswa ka views tsa bone, batho ba baakanya (amend) Standing Orders ka fa bone ba bonang di ba kgoreletsa (offend) ka teng.

Fa e le gore ga se se kgoreletsang the mover of the Motion, ga go kgoreletse.
Motion o ke wa Palamente jaanong, and that is why le one Motion o o kgona go baakanngwa ke Palamente.

That was my procedure.

MR SPEAKER: That is not true VP.

What is on the floor, you must discuss it the way each of them sees it.

That is the way it is.

MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you sir.

Ke dumalana le wena Mr Speaker.

Ke ka tsaya Honourable Mthimkhulu?

MR SPEAKER: And then there is Honourable Lesedi.

MR LESEDI: Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.


Motlotlegi a re tlhatswetse fa gore, a mme the Secretaries tsa Komiti ya Standing Orders and Reforms o a ba itse sentle.

Fa e le gore o a ba itse, gongwe a tlhalosetse Ntlo e gore Parliamentary Counsels (PCs) ba ba tlang ka kwano mo Palamenteng ba fetotswe ga kae?

E nne dilo tse e tlaabong kgang e e tswelela e ya kwa pele, gongwe se bo se ka baya Ntlo e mo seemong se se ka tlhaloganyesegang gore gongwe mabaka ke eng?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


MR MTHIMKHULU: Clarification.

Rre Motaosane, o utlwile kgantele ba bangwe ba re kana Business Committee e a tsena, Honourable Saleshando a re e a tsena e bile e na le go dumalana gantsi.
Fa re lebelela Standing Order 102.2 Paragraph (a) e e reng responsibility ya Business Committee is “to consider and recommend any amendment to the Standing Orders, which it may consider necessary or desirable.” Fa Business Committee e ka bo e dirisitse this power ka fa Saleshando a buang ka teng, a mme re ka bo re le fa gompieno Honourable Motaosane?

MR SPEAKER: Yes, Honourable Lesedi, I heard you but there was a point raised by the Vice President (VP), for procedure.

MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you.


Nakonyana ya me e bile e a wela.

To go directly to your point Honourable Mthimkhulu, re ka bo re se fa; it is very clear.

MR TSOGWANE: Procedure.

Sorry Mr Speaker, I was raising point of procedure ke gateletse thata mo ntlheng e e buiwang ke motlotlegi gore, kana tsamaiso ya Palamente e ke gore fa o tlile ka Motion… o kare he was driven by kgang ya ga Leader of Opposition (LOO) gore wena Motion wa gago ke o sele jaanong ga o a nna jaaka ka fa bangwe ba akgelang ka teng.
Kana Mopalamente, fa o tlisitse Motion, e nna wa Palamente, Honourable Lesedi, as the Chairperson of a committee, you are the one who is supposed to cause for a meeting.

Ga o ka ke wa nna a celebrity Chairperson yo komiti ya gagwe e sa direng sepe, o bo o nna fela o re ka gore bo PC ba a fetoga.

Batho fa ba fetoga ga ba tsamaye ka ofisi.


Batho bao o fa o le Modulasetilo wa Komiti eo as and when you deem it fit and necessary, ke wena o tshwanetseng go ba raya o re ka mabaka a le a I want 42 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE this committee to sit.
Sa bone ke go go bolelela gore a go na le madi a a ka re duelang to sit or not or even go to the extent of consulting with the Speakership gore Speaker, ke na le seemo ke se sa komiti ke batla e tsena, mme bodiredi o kare go lebega ba nkgoreletsa kana ke kgorelediwa ke tsamaiso ya bodiredi gore they do not facilitate me gore komiti ya me e tsene.

You should have reported this to the Speaker.


Fa e le gore ga o ise o go bege (report) kwa go Speaker, then ga o na mabaka ape a o ka reng o mpotsa potso e e tshwanang le e ke bonang o e mpoditse.

Boikarabelo jwa komiti ke itse gore bo mo go Modulasetilo wa komiti.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ee, mme I reported.

MR MOTAOSANE: Fa e le gore you begile, you have never reported back to us re le Palamente go itse gore go diragala eng ka komiti ya gago e sa tsene.
Therefore, Mr Speaker ke batla go ema fa having debated and having said this.

Se ke se buileng ke se kopang fa go tlhamaletse; ke kopa gore re baakanye Standing Orders, re leke go tsamaya ka itshwaro e o ka kgonang go tsamaisa Ntlo e go sena sekgoreletsi.

I so move Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, the floor is open.


FOR PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Ee rra, ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, e bile ke a go ikokobeletsa ka thulaganyo e e tlisitsweng ke Motlotlegi Rre Motaosane.

Ke supe gore go botlhokwa gore re eme nokeng Tshutiso e ya ga Rre Motaosane.

Re tshwanetse re e eme nokeng, e tšhaetswe ke nako, go maleba.

Nako ya me ke how many minutes foo Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: You are now left with nine.


MR MORWAENG: Ao!

ga se 20?

MR SPEAKER: No.

MR MORWAENG: Okay.

Ee rra, ke amogela Tshutiso ya ga Rre Motaosane.

E fetilwe ke nako, re tshwanetse re e dire Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Ntlha e e tona fa ke gore, re ntse le komiti ke baya e le sekai, e mo Ntlong e ya Palamente go tlisitswe Standing Orders mo go yone, e le gore Leader of the House o tlile ka Standing Orders tse ba rotlhe bontsi jwa rona re neng re dumela gore go botlhokwa gore di lebiwe, re a dumalana bontsi jwa rona gore di fetilwe ke nako, kakanyo e le gore di lebiwe.

Re ntse re na le komiti fa, e for two to three years now ba sa batle go itebaganya le Standing Orders tse, ba sa batle go baakanya.
Jaanong go botlhokwa gore rona re le Mapalamente, re tseye maikarabelo a go fetola these Standing Orders gore Palamente e tle e kgone e tswelele e bereke sentle.

Dingwe tsa tsone di fetilwe ke nako Mr Speaker.

Ke tsene mo kgannyeng ke beye sekai, go na le dikgang tse fa re lebile Standing Orders Mr Speaker, go na le bo point of order… MR MMOLOTSI: Procedure.
Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, gongwe re thusane fa, kana this selection ya dikomiti le ditlhopho tse di diragalang kwa dikomiting, di dirwa ke backbench kana Mapalamente, Cabinet not being involved, because it is understood gore re bereka ka three arms of Government.
Jaanong in this debate, fa ba Cabinet want to lead gore Palamente e dire dilo ka tsela e e ntseng jaana, a mme procedurally re mo tseleng sentle gore e bo e le gore Cabinet is going to decide for us gore re le backbench re dira dikomiti tsa rona ka tsela e e ntseng jang, go tshwanetse go tsena bo mang, go se ka ga tsena bo mang?

MR SPEAKER: What we are deciding here is a Motion moved by a Member of the backbench; Private Member as opposed to Ministers, and that Motion I read it to you.
Our Standing Orders allow each and every Member of Parliament except the Speaker, to debate when it is brought to Parliament.

We are quite in order.

Honourable Morwaeng.

MR MORWAENG: Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke supe fela gore la ntlha pele ga re tsena mo Khuduthamageng, re Mapalamente.

La bobedi, Palamente e, e na le tshwanelo ya go itseela ditshwetso.

Laboraro, Standing Orders dingwe are ambiguous, re tshela re dumalana gore di baakanngwe.
Ke na le mogopolo wa gore Standing Orders tse, re eletsa di baakanngwe.

Ke dumalana le gore di baakanngwe.

Tse di neng di tlile ka the Leader of the House gore a re baakanye, Palamente e tle e bereke sentle.

Sekai; go na le kgang e e a tleng e direge mo Palamenteng e, ka point of procedure and point of order.

Fa go na le tse dingwe tse di tshwanang le gore fa Tona e amega, he or she ga a ka ke a baakanya se se buiwang.

There is no point of correction, ke e baya e le sekai.
Go na le kgang ya point of procedure and point of order, batho bangwe ga ba e dirise sentle.

They debate ba dirile point of order le point of procedure.

Kopo ya me ke gore Mr Speaker, o ntetle ke tlise list e ke dumelang gore phetogo e nne teng mo Standing Orders tsa teng.

Ke dumela gore the Leader of the House o ne a tla ka tsone teng fa.
43 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Ntlha e nngwe Mr Speaker e ke reng go botlhokwa, jaaka bakaulengwe ba ntse ba bua, ga go nne sentle gore e bo e le gore proportion ya dikomiti tsa rona ga e reflect dipalo tsa Mapalamente a a mo Palamenteng.

Go tla jang gore re bo re le mo Palamenteng, re na le dikomiti tse e leng gore bontsi mo go bone ke ba kganetso mme Palamente e na le bontsi jwa Mapalamente a party e e busang?
Ka bokhutshwane, re tshwanetse gore dipalo tsa dikomiti tsa rona sir, di supe gore palo ya Mapalamente e ntse jang.

Bona gompieno re na le komiti e e eteletsweng pele ke Motlotlegi Rre Lesedi, yo gotweng ke Chairperson, but re ntse re lela ka Standing Orders di sa lebelelwe gotlhelele.

Kopo ya me ke gore, a re baakanye seemo se.


Fa o lebile Standing Order 53.4, ke e baya e le sekai Mr Speaker, o a go fitlhela e le gore mo debates tse dingwe, yone e re batlang e lebelelwa, debates tsa Budget Mapalamente a mangwe jaaka Leader of the Opposition (LOO) o fiwa nako e ntsi mme the Leader of the House o fiwa e e lekanang le ya rona.

Tumelo ya me ke gore gone mo, go tshwanetse go fetoge Mr Speaker.
Ntlha e nngwe e ke eletsang gore Palamente e, e e amogele ke gore, kgang e ya lists tse re a tleng re tle ka tsone mo Palamenteng, go tswa fela gore a e amogelwa ka nako eo kana nnyaa.

Ke le esi, ke eletsa gore e nne teng mo tsamaisong gore re itse gore lists tseo di a letlelesega.

Ke eletsa gore nngwe ya diphetogo tse di ... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure!

MR MORWAENG: Nnyaa, mma ke wetse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure!

Procedure!

MR MORWAENG: Nnyaa, nako ya me ke e Mr Speaker, e ntse e a nyelela.
Ke ne ke re e a tsamaya.

MR SPEAKER: We are going to freeze your time Minister.

MR MORWAENG: Thank you.

MR MOATLHODI: On a point of procedure.

Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke a go leboga Motlotlegi Tona.

Ke go gakolole gore e o e buang eo, Standing Order 10.3(b) e a letla gore le tlise maina jaaka le ntse le a tlisa, eo e tlhamaletse.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.


MR MORWAENG: Jaanong o a bona gore fa re ka bo re ne re na le komiti e tshela, dilo tse re ka bo re sa tla go di bua.

Re na le komiti e dira.

Ke a itse gore ga e dire sepe.

In any case, Mr Speaker, o tle o ntetle ke tlise list e fa pele ga gago ke e go neele, because of time, ke ka se di bue tsotlhe.

Ke kopa o ntetle ke e tlise fa go wena e le proposals tsa me gore ke eletsa phetogo e nne teng.

Sekai; to allow for elucidation by other Ministers.
Fa gongwe fa re bua re le Matona, go na le dikgang tse dingwe tse re buang ka tsone, mme fa Tona e nngwe e amega because ke Minister ga a kgone to elucidate, go botsa, go ka reng.

Ke nngwe ya tse ke tlaa di tlisang fa pele ga gago Mr Speaker.

Ke kope di tle fa pele a gago o bone contribution ya me ka boikokobetso.

Because of time, ke ka se di bue ...(Interruptions)... Ke kopa o ntetle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.

MR MORWAENG: Ee rra, ka motsotso fela Mr Speaker.


MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR MOLAO): On a point of elucidation.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke batla to elucidate go se kaenyana gore re dirisa the Westminster Parliamentary System.

Fa o lebelela the House of Commons, Komiti ya bone ya Selection e e tshwanang le ya rona, e ne ya dira gore Chairpersons ba dikomiti, ofisi ya ga Speaker ke yone e bonang gore ke bomang.

Ba supa gore the balance ya diphathi mo Palamenteng e tshwanetse e nne teng.
Sekai; Dikomiti tsa bone tsa Selection, Conservatives e le bone ba ba fentseng ditlhopho, chair dikomiti di le 16, Labour e e duleng number two, chair nine, Members of the Scottish Parliament (MSP) chairs two fela.

E bo e kopanya gore Public Accounts Committee (PAC) jaaka le rona, it is chaired by opposition.

Ba bo ba tswelela ba re, Komiti ya Treasurer le ya Defence and Foreign Affairs ke tsa party e e busang, whereas rona kwano re dirisa the same principle ya Westminster, but we did not cater for those.
Ke dingwe tse re tshwanetseng go di lebelela.

Se re sa se kwalang in our Standing Orders, re dumalane gore re tlaa se kopisa kwa the Westminster System.

Ke fetise yone e gore ga re dire sepe se se sa diragadiweng.

MR MORWAENG: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, because of time, ke kopa ke ikokobeditse mongwame ka tlotlo e e kalo e ke ntseng ke e go fa ka dinako tsotlhe, ke tabogele fa ofising ya gago ke tlise submission ya me.

Nako e ka se ntese gore ke bue tsotlhe tse ke nang le tsone.
Ka boikokobetso, Motion o, maikaelelo le maikemisetso ka fa ke utlwang Motlotlegi Motaosane ka teng ke gore, re baakanye tsamaiso ya rona ya Palamente gore re direle Batswana botoka.

Ke 44 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE o ema nokeng, e bile ke kopa gore a re o eme nokeng.

A re baakanyeng Standing Orders tsa rona.

Ba re neng re rile re ba fa tsamaiso... MR LEUWE: On a point of procedure.

Thank you Mr Speaker.


Ke utlwa Tona a bua thata ka to submit, I strongly believe gore submissions di tshwanetse go ya fa go setse go dumalanwe gore re ye to review Standing Orders, not now.

Ke sone se ke reng re tlaabo re dule mo tsamaisong fa go ka diragala jalo.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: I do not know what he is submitting.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!

)… MR SPEAKER: The mover has to submit to the Speaker and we will know that he is not debating with the House.

I am sure he is aware of that.


MR MORWAENG: Ee rra, ke a leboga.

Mr Speaker, se ke lekang go se supa gore ke gore, ke malalaalaotswe, ke ipaakantse.

Re ka se bue Standing Orders tsotlhe mme a re di baakanye.

A re fetise Motion wa ga Motlotlegi Rre Motaosane.

Tumelo ya me ke gore, dikomiti tsotlhe di baakanngwe to reflect the numbers in Parliament.
Ga re ka ke ra re re le phathi re tsere ditlhopho ka dipalo tse di kanakana le seats tse kana, e bo e le gore batho ba le palopotlana ke bone ba kgoreletsang Palamente e go bereka.

Akanya fela, three years motho a ntse setilo tsala ya me, e le Chairperson ya Komiti ya Standing Orders mme e ise e tsene le fa e le gangwefela, nnyaa batho betsho.

Ba bangwe ba kgona go kwalela kwa mafatsheng a patika komiti a re ke yone e rileng a kwale.

Ka tsela eo, nako e tšhaile.


Re tshwanetse re baakanye dikomiti tse Mr Speaker.

Tumelo ya me ke gore, it is within our right re le Mapalamente gore re baakanye dikomiti tse to reflect palo ya rona re le mo Palamenteng.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

Honourable Mthimkhulu followed by Honourable Kapinga.

ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Thank you Mr Speaker.
Ke ema go ema nokeng Rre Motaosane mo kopong e ya gagwe ya gore Palamente e e tseye tshwetso ya gore e fetole Standing Orders.

Ke simolola fela ke re kana Mr Speaker, re ka bo re se fa gompieno fa nkabo e le gore the Business Advisory Committee e dirile tiro ya yone.
Fa o lebelela Standing Order 102.2 Paragraph (a), e supa gore Business Committee e na le dithata tsa gore e recommend gore some of the Standing Orders tse di tshwanetseng go baakanngwa, di baakanngwe mme re bona go ise go diragale jalo kana tsa tlisiwa fa pele ga General Assembly ya Palamente gore ba baakanye tsamaiso e. Golo mo ka bogone fela, go affect the delivery of the business ya Palamente e very, very negatively mo e leng gore kgantele ...(Inaudible)… go bo go tsamaya.
Ke sone se o bonang e re fa re debate, sometimes go tshwanetse gore go buisanngwe ka Bills Mr Speaker, e bo e le gore batho ba tla ka Motions tse di urgent tse di tlang o ipotsa gore a Motion o o urgent kana jang jaaka o bona re nganga mo Palamenteng gore a mme o o neng o tlile ka Mopalamente mongwe fa o urgent, mme a ntse a itse gore dilo tse a di batlang, tse a yang go di kopa mo Palamenteng, ga di ye go dirwa gone foo.
Go ya go simololwa go tlhomiwa commission kana structure sepe fela se a neng a batla gore se tlhomiwe, se bo se tsamaya se ya to investigate ka dilo tse di ka baakanngwang gone foo.

Fa di tlile, ke to abuse process ya Palamente Mr Speaker.

Fa re sa baakanye Standing Orders, gongwe go ya go tswelela go ntse fela jalo.
Go ya go tswelela go dira gore jaanong kgantele fa re debate very important Bills, re bo re palelwa ke go di fetsa ka nako ka gore batho ba a tla, ba tla ka business e e leng gore e irrelevant, ba bo ba e park fa pele, e le gore nako ya Palamente e jega re sa debate.

MR RAMOGAPI: Clarification.

Ke a leboga.


Ke botse Motlotlegi Tona gore a ke go utlwa sentle gore wa re Business Committee ya rona e e nang le Motlotlegi Vice President le yone e a palelwa ka gore wa re re ka bo re se fa fa nne komiti e dira tiro ya yone sentle?

A wa re le komiti e, e e nang le Vice President e a palelwa?

Ke go utlwa sentle?

MR MTHIMKHULU: Ke gore o tabogetse go bua ka Vice President.
The Business Committee e na le Leader of the Opposition, Chief Whip wa Opposition, Leader of the House, Chief Whip wa the ruling party, ke two-two.

Jaanong go raya gore ka fa go ntseng ka teng, go na le ...(Inaudible)… e ntšha.

If there is matter e e leng gore opposition ga e e batle kana Rre Saleshando ga a e batle e tlile ka ba ba busang or the Leader of the House, ga e ka ke ya tla, e swela gone koo e bile ga e ka ke ya tla kwa go rona.
The Speaker, has no voting rights in Parliament and he cannot... our view, ka fa ke tlhaloganyang ka teng, ka fa ke batlang go nna ka teng, ke gore Speaker ga a tshwanela go nna le tshwanelo ya gore a break tie ka 45 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE gore o na le title.

We have a tie already because we are two-two.


That is why re re this Standing Order 102.2 se baakanngwe to reflect composition of Parliament gore batho ba bantsi kwa Palamenteng ke bomang so that fa e le gore ga gona tumalano, go nne le vote and then the numbers in Parliament can be reflected in this.

This is a very, very important committee.


Re batla gore this Standing Order 102 se baakanngwe, e seng fela gone moo Mr Speaker; Standing Orders on all committees tse e leng gore ba kganetso ke chairmen mo teng jaaka re supile ka Rre Kapinga, a itseetse tshwetso a le nosi, a bo a ya go kwalela to the International Committee, a pateletsa komiti ya Palamente e e tlotlegang, a senya lefatshe leina.

Dilo tse di ntseng jaana ga di a siama, di tshwanetse gore di emisiwe, di se ka tsa boelela gape.
Gore di se ka tsa boelela gape, ke gore re netefatse gore batho ba ba tshwanang le bo Rre Kapinga ba a tswa mo dikomiting.

Ga re a tshwanela go ošhaošha re tshwanela iphitlha ka menwana.

Re tshwanetse gore re bone gore batho ba… Ke ne ke utlwa Rre Motaosane a re two-thirds of the Committees of Parliament currently are chaired by members of the opposition.

Ao!
Ao!

batho ba Modimo, re tswa go tsaya Puso re e ipapaletsa re le maDomkrag, re bo re e fiwa ke Batswana and showed confidence in us to lead this country.

E rile fa re tswa kwa re bo re tsaya Puso re e fa batho ba ba jelweng kwa ditlhophong, batho ba ba mo Moti, ba ba batlang go rekisa lefatshe.

Ke mogopolo o o sa siamang thata.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Nako ya me e tšhaile, ke mang?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke Hikuama.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Ee, tsena ka pela Hikuama.


Kgantele o ne o re ga ke na botho.

O dire ka pela o se ka wa tla wa nthaya wa re ga ke na botho.

MR HIKUAMA: Ke a leboga Mthimkhulu.

Ke ne ke re ke go correct gone gore nnyaa mme ga re a jewa ke ditlhopho, re fentse.

Ba re leng mo Palamenteng mo, ga re a jewa ke ditlhopho, baakanya statement sa teng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke rile o ya go go jela nako.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O raya Rre Autlwetse.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Honourable Hikuama ga o tlhaloganye.
Ga le a win Government.

You were not given the mandate to run this country.

You do not have that mandate and it was wrong for our Members of Parliament to give you the mandate to run committees of Parliament, it was wrong and that should be corrected, le wena o a itse.

O a itse gore le tsere Puso ka bokukuntshwane through the backdoor.

Jaanong re batla go baakanya.


Mr Speaker, at this stage, ke batla to suggest… tota e bile before ke tsena kwa suggesting amendment, ke bue gore Standing Orders Committee ya ga Rre Honourable Lesedi le fa o bona a ne a itatola, ke komiti e e leng gore ga e a direla Palamente e boammaaruri.

Ga e a direla Palamente e tshiamo ka gore ba filwe a very important responsibility to make sure gore affairs tsa Palamente are run smoothly.
Bone ka gore jaanong ga ba batle ba na le somebody from the outside, who commands them, who tells them what to do and what not to do, ba bo ba palelwa ke go sit gore bogolo ba ye go nganga kwa komiting, ba se ka ba dumalana.

Ba bo ba palelwa ke gore ba lebe Standing Orders fela, ba di tlhotlhe, ba bone gore a di siame kana ga di a siama.

Ba tshaba go di lebelela ka gore ba tshaba mongwe ka kwa ntle ga Palamente.
Jaanong motho yo o ntseng jalo tota does not deserve to be a Chairman of the Standing Orders Committee.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr Speaker.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Before nako e tšhaya Mr Speaker, ke supile gore... MR LESEDI: Point of order.

Mr Speaker, ke dumela gore Tona jaanong ga a tshwara kgang e jaaka fa a ne a tshwanetse go e tshwara.

He is out of order fa a re re fiwa ditaelo ke mongwe yo o kwa ntle.
O tshwanelwa ke gore jaanong a beye bosupi jwa gore yo o kwa ntle o re fa ditaelo e le mang, a reng?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le tlhola le re ke points of view fa le bua jalo.

MR SPEAKER: Yo o fang ditaelo a le kwa ntle ke mang?

MR MTHIMKHULU: Mr Speaker, fa nkabo a sa fiwe ditaelo ke motho, a sa laolwe ke mongwe who is outside this Parliament, o ka bo a dumetse gore komiti ya gagwe e bitswe, e sit, he refused.

What is he running from?


Who is controlling him outside Parliament apart from the Speaker giving him instructions?

Ke yone kgang e ke buang ka yone e. 46 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Jaanong ke tswelele sir ke re tota ke ne ke suggest at this stage gore tota ga go a siama gore gompieno the two- thirds ya dikomiti tsa Palamente e bo e le gore they are chaired by members of the opposition.
Jaanong ke batla to move at this stage a Motion to amend ... MR LESEDI: Point of order.

Mr Speaker, ke kopa gore Honourable Mthimkhulu a arabe, e seng jalo a a beye bosupi fa pele ga Palamente e. Ke a go kopa ka tsweetswee.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mthimkhulu, gatwe ke mang yo o ka kwa ntle ga Palamente yo o fang Honourable Lesedi ditaelo ka komiti e?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, we are dealing with… MR SPEAKER: No, we are dealing with… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Morwaeng, a ko o ithute tsamaiso.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ene o batla go itatlhela fela.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re kana Rre Lesedi o a itse gore e rile fa o ba kopa gore ba meet, they failed to meet.

Now, on what basis did he fail to convene his committee?
I am telling him the only reason why he failed to convene his committee when he is a Member of Parliament is because of people who are outside this Parliament who are controlling him.

That is my... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Bring evidence.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Mr Speaker, at this stage ke batla to propose amendment ya Motion wa ga Rre Motaosane.

Re o amend... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.


HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: We are still dealing with the order raised by Honourable Lesedi because ga ke utlwe karabo ya ga Minister.

It is either the Minister knows of a person or he does not know and he is just conjecturing.

If he is conjecturing, he should not say there is somebody outside.

What Honourable Lesedi is saying Minister is that, he is not aware of anybody controlling him from outside.
Wena fa e le gore o a mo itse, mmolelele gore ke mang, that is what he is saying.

A o a mo itse?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: He suspects.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you.

It is my own legal interpretation.

Last time fa yo mongwe a bua fa accusing mongwe ka bogodu go tilwe there is own legal interpretation, so I am putting my own legal interpretation in what Lesedi is doing by his failure to convene his committee.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!


)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, ga a ise a nkarabe, o tshwanetse gore a arabe.

MR SPEAKER: O arabile a re, fa a re go na le motho a re, it is a conclusion which he draws himself fa a bona komiti e sa kopane.

Ga gona motho yo a ka mo supang.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ee, a a boele mafoko a gore ke tsaya ditaelo mo go mongwe, a a boele kwa morago.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR MATHOOTHE: Point of order Mr Speaker.
Ke ne ke kopa gore kana Honourable Mthimkhulu o paletswe ke go fa bosupi jwa gore a re ke mang yo o fang Honourable Lesedi ditaelo.

Jaanong fa a palelwa ke go fa bosupi, a a boele mafoko ao morago a a reng mongwe o mo fa ditaelo, ke sone se re se kopang.

Ga o ka ke wa tla fela o selasela o bo o tlisa dikgang gone fa.

Ke gone mo re go kopang gore a go boele morago, ke Tona re a mo tlotla.

MR MORWAENG: Procedure.


Ee rra, ke ne ke re tumelo ya me ke gore kana Honourable Lesedi o fa e le Mopalamente, a emetse batho.

Ga ke dumele gore a Honourable Lesedi o ikemetse, ke dumela gore go na le bangwe ba a ba emetseng, ga a ikemela, it is true.

Rotlhe ba re mo Palamenteng re emetse batho and re tsaya ditaelo mo bathong ba re ba emetseng.
Ke dumela gore ke boammaaruri gore Honourable Lesedi o emetse batho, ke akanya jalo, e le Mopalamente and ditaelo tse o di tsaya kwa bathong ka gore ba mo tlhophile.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!

)… MR SPEAKER: You know what Minister, eo ke kgang e sele.
The objection here is that the committee e e tshwanetseng go leba Standing Orders ga e a kopana ka 47 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE gore Modulasetilo o laolwa ke motho yo mongwe yo o kwa ntle ga Palamente.
Fa go botswa gotwe ke mang, Minister a bo a re, “tota ke raya gore fa ke lebile ka mo a sa kgonang go bitsa komiti, ke bona e le gore o tshwanetse e bo se le teng se se mo paledisang.” Ga a ka ke a supa ope ka gore ga a mo itse le ene.

MR LESEDI: Jaanong fa go ntse jalo, a a boele morago mafoko a a reng ke rongwa ke mongwe.
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Lesedi, he is then interpreting that word with what he answered with, now that you are questioning him, is that in his opinion fa a lebile mabaka a gore komiti ga e a kopana, you must be failing, if you were failing at all to convene the committee, because as he says in his opinion ke motho yo o kwa ntle.

MR LESEDI: Mr Speaker, o ele tlhoko kgang e ka gore ga o e tseye ka tekatekanyo.

Motlotlegi o rile ke tsaya ditaelo ke di fiwa ke mongwe yo o kwa ntle ga Palamente.
Jaanong a re o a akanyetsa.

A boele mafoko ao kwa morago.

MR SPEAKER: Ke mo utlwile, you are telling the truth, that is what he said.

Then when you asked him, “e le mang yoo?” HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… ntlhokela botho.

Sekopa morokotso seo o tlaa se tlhoka.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!

)… MR SPEAKER: Ke mo utlwile Honourable Lesedi, a re o laolwa ke mongwe yo o kwa ntle ga Palamente, which raised the question ke mang?
Ga go pala gore a re ke mang, a bo a re, nnyaa ke dikakanyo tsa gagwe, so ga gona motho.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga se gore Lesedi o belaela mongwe tota?

MR SPEAKER: A re fetseng kgang e, we are not going to pass this Motion VP if we go like this.

The only thing that is left is that, Honourable Minister, wena you were doing a hyperbole which was unnecessary.

You should have from the word go put your opinion and not that there is somebody who is outside this Parliament.
You were doing political hyperbole e e sa re thuseng.

MR MTHIMKHULU: I withdraw Mr Speaker, for progress, thank you.
Jaanong ke fetsa Mr Speaker, because my time now is limited, ke gore ke batla to 48 propose amendment to the Motion by Honourable Motaosane, especially the last part of it, where it reads, “secondly that the Business Advisory Committee and the Committee of Selection as reconstituted under the amended Standing Orders be directed to review the composition of all non-functioning Parliamentary Committees and report to Parliament within 14 days of this resolution.” We amend by deleting the word ‘non- functioning’ to refer to “all Parliamentary Committees,” because it is unheard of for a party e e leng gore it is in the opposition e bo e le gore jaanong it heads two thirds of the committees of Parliament, when the party on the majority is now in the minority as pertains to chairing committees of Parliament.
I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mthimkhulu, the part which you want to be deleted are the words “non- functioning…” MR MTHIMKHULU: Yes, only, so that it can read “all Parliamentary Committees.” MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you.

Mr Speaker, ga ke batle go dumalana le Motion because, what I was actually saying was that the committees tse nna ke di tsenang, two thirds of them are chaired by opposition members, not all the committees tsa Palamente.
Ke raya gore Honourable Mthimkhulu gongwe ga a nkutlwa sentle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: I think di ntse jalo all of them.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: The mover is Honourable Motaosane, but the Motion is now before Parliament and it has to do what it likes with it.

The amendment Honourable Members is to delete the word, “non-functioning” from the Motion.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: We will not be here in 14 days.

MR SPEAKER: Ga re itse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Palamente e a ilaola monna.


MR SPEAKER: O tlaa bona gore o bona mang.

Honourable Members, gakere the amendment moved by Honourable Mthimkhulu?

tlhaloganya le HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes, Mr Speaker.


Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE MR SPEAKER: To delete the word, “non- functioning,” so that the Standing Orders Committee be directed to review the composition of all Parliamentary Committees, not just non-functioning.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke Rakgare, o tlaa didimala for the rest of your life.

tlaa go araba HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… Order!

Honourable Members.
Honourable Members.

The question is that the amendment be agreed to.

MR SPEAKER: A re diriseng matsogo a rona, the physical hands.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: We have to debate the amendment.

MR SPEAKER: I called for it and nobody raised their hands.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Our hands are already up.

MR SPEAKER: I know what I am doing.

I have put the question and I sat down.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Our hands are on the screen Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: For what?


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le go bua ga le batle re bua.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le tlhomamisa jang gore re ne re ka se ke re bue?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le go bua ga le batle re bua?

MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, fa le batla go bua you should say so.

When the Speaker put a question, make sure if you want to speak to that question, you say so to the Speaker.

If you just keep quiet because your hand has already been up, then you lose.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: We are confused Mr Speaker, we have to raise our virtual hands.

MR SPEAKER: Yah, but you can attract my attention without a virtual hand.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: We will do that next time Mr Speaker, now we know.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ramogapi always shouts.

…(Inaudible)… jaanong ga a dire jalo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kana Mr Speaker, Dr Tshabang o nna a le confused fela.

Gompieno ga a itse gore a ke moUDC kana moBCP.

That is the problem.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa go akgela Mr Speaker.


MR SPEAKER: Vice President (VP) and Honourable Kapinga; Ambassador.

then HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, ke dumalana le Tshutiso.

Selo santlha ke gore ke kile ka bua kgantele fa mosutisi a ne a gateletse mo goreng ene o bua a riana jaaka Leader of the Opposition (LOO) a ne a leka go itlhalosa gore a reng tota ka Motion wa gagwe, a re nna ka riana.
Jaanong ke mo raya ke re Motion fa o setse o le mo floor, ga e sa tlhole e le wa yo o o sutisitseng, it belongs to Parliament.

Therefore, it can be amended by any Member of Parliament.
Fa amendment eo go dumalanwa le yone ke Palamente ka gore jaanong ke Motion wa Palamente, it will …(Inaudible)... Ke sone se ke dumalanang le gore ga re ka ke ra ya go ntsha dikomiti tse pedi fela ka lesolegolo, e bo e le gore tse dingwe beke e e tlang fa re sena go nna re amend Standing Orders, re bo re re tse dingwe le tsone are non- functional.

Re bo re tla fa gape ka tse pedi, tse dingwe le tsone they are non-functional.

Jaanong re ya go felela fa kae?


If we are going to do a thorough job which we think we will have to do, then we must make sure that we review all the committees, re bone gore a mme composition ya tsone e siame selo santlha.

Bodulasetilo bo tlaa tlhophiwa on the basis of the composition of the committees ka gore Palamente ga se yone e tlhophang Badulasetilo ba dikomiti.

Dikomiti di na le Standing Orders tse di laolang gore Badulasetilo ba komiti e ba tlhophiwa jang.
Go na le tse dingwe tse Badulasetilo ba kgonang gore ba ye go tlhophiwa gongwe by the Speakership, le tse e leng gore dikomiti ka botsone di tlhopha Badulasetilo ba teng.

Fa e kare re sena go nna re di dira jalo a bo di ntse di ya go tlhopha ba kganetso ba nna in the majority, ga gona ope yo o ka tlang a ngongorega because go a bo go tlhophile dikomiti tse di setseng jaanong re di dirile go supa the composition ya Palamente.

So ba tlaa ya go itlhophela Badulasetilo, ga gona poifo.
Gompieno bangwe ba ne ba bua ba re kana rona ga re a itlhopha 49 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE mo dikomiting tseo, re ne re tlhophiwa ke maloko a dikomiti tseo.

Ra re ee, maloko ao a a le tlhophileng mo go tse dingwe, a ne a sa lekalekane, a ne a sa nna sentle ka boone.

MR TSHERE: Clarification.

Honourable Leader of the House, ke a utlwa.

Jaanong kana rona re basha mo Palamenteng, perhaps you can help us understand.
Kana dikomiti tse ke ne ke tsaya gore to be chaired by backbench e e leng gore it is dominated by opposition, e ne e le go tlisa scrutiny mo go se le se dirang le le Executive.

Jaanong fa e le gore le batla e fetoga a bo le felela le tsaya our right to scrutinize what the Executive is doing, then what is the point of having an oversight Parliament?

What is the point of us sitting Honourable VP?

Thank you.

MR TSOGWANE: Selo santlha kana fa re le mo Palamenteng, re Mapalamente.
Re utlwile gore Speaker o ne a bua gore Mopalamente o mongwefela yo o sa tlhopheng, ke ene.

Rona re na le dikgaolo Rre Tshere.

Gape le mo Executive, ga go tewe gotwe o nnela ruri.

O kgona go nna in Executive today, tomorrow you are in the backbench.

Tota that is not a condition.

Re Mapalamente, we have got all interests.


That is why fa re tlhopha dikomiti tse di tshwanang le tsa bo Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA) le tse dingwe jaana tse di international, re di tlhopha rotlhe kwa General Assembly.

Ga go nke gotwe di tlhophiwe ke backbench fela.

Ga nke go tualo.

That means that re Mapalamente rotlhe, our voice must be the same.

Ga re ka ke ra tsena mo go tsone, but we must have a say mo dikomiting tsa Palamente re le Mapalamente rotlhe.
Ke dumalana le gore re dire tiro eo Mr Speaker, jaaka Motion o baakantswe.

Motion wa ga Rre Motaosane o tlile sentle, o siame mme fela bakaulengwe ba o sekasekile, ba bone gore golo gongwe o batla gore o akaretse dikomiti tsotlhe.

Ke yone pharologanyo fela, otherwise the Motion is still the same.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa go bua Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR TSOGWANE: Bua sir.

MR SPEAKER: Ba bantsi ba ba batlang go bua.

MR TSOGWANE: Ee, yo o tsayang clarification, o ka e tsaya.
Kana le raya gore ke didimale, ba supiwe, ba bue?

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Boko, clarification.

MR BOKO: Point of clarification.

Through you Mr Speaker, thank you so much... MR KAPINGA: Nnyaa, VP o ne a buile a feditse Mr Speaker, I was supposed to follow after him.

MR TSOGWANE: Nnyaa, ke ne ke ise ke fetse... MR SPEAKER: answering people who are asking him... ...(Inaudible)…to follow, he is MR TSOGWANE: Ba bo ba ntsena ganong Rre Kapinga, ke ne ke utlwa o kare ba batla clarification.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, o ne o feditse.

MR TSOGWANE: Nnyaa, ke raya gore ba ntsene ganong, a ko o ba kgalemele, o se ka wa tshaba go kgalemela moBNF, mo kgalemele fela, o na le thata ya go kgalemela moBNF yo gotweng Boko yo.

MR BOKO: Nnyaa, ke nna ke ne ke filwe sentle, ke raya gore... MR TSOGWANE: Bua Rre Boko ke go neetse.

MR BOKO: Point of clarification.

I am not happy at all; I am a Member of the UDC.


Ke ne ke re Honourable VP, re nna le pelaelo jaanong, ke ne ke re ka gore ...(Inaudible)… o kare Motion o maikaelelo a teng ke go leka go ka ...(Inaudible)… especially bone ba back bench ka maemo a bo chairperson.

O ya go fitlhela e le gore, nna gompieno ke Chairperson ya Youth, Sport, Arts and Culture, gongwe go bo go ya go tsenngwa fela Honourable mongwe fela gone fa yo o bo 45 bo 50 years, kana Honourable Molale, gotwe a tsamaise komiti ya teng.
Ke raya gore golo ga teng fela ga go nne sentle lantlha.

La bobedi ke kgang ya gore you are diluting the role ya Opposition jaaka re tlhodumela gore the Cabinet e dira eng mo tirong ya yone ya letsatsi le letsatsi.

Ga ke itse gore ke eng re tshwanetse gore re tswelele ka Motion.

Ke yone e ke neng ke leka go e tlhalosa this ...(Inaudible)… but the oversight role jaanong is being diluted.

MR TSOGWANE: Thank you, o buile, Kapinga o fela pelo.
Nnyaa, ke arabile Rre Boko, o ne o ntsha mafatlha a gago go siame, but nna ke dumalana le Motion gore o nne jaaka o ntse jaaka o baakantswe Mr Speaker.

Tlaya ke neele ba bangwe sebaka le bone ba latlhele la mmotlana.

50 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ambassador Kapinga.

MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Tanki Mr Speaker.


Ke ne ke batla go supa sengwe fela ka bokhutshwanyane, I am not debating the main Motion, I am debating the proposed amendment... MR SPEAKER: I know that, yes.
MR KAPINGA: I want to draw the attention of the House to Standing Order 98.7 e e reng, “there shall be portfolio committees, which shall be appointed for the life of a Parliament, and shall stand dissolved upon the dissolution of the Assembly.” Ka lebaka leo Mr Speaker, ka fa ke balang ka teng Standing Order se, dikomiti tse, once they are appointed, they can only be dissolved upon the dissolution of Parliament.
So, the proposal that is being made Mr Speaker, in this proposed amendment, and the main Motion, in my view, is ultra vires, ga e a tshwanela gore e letlelelwe gore e diragale because it violates this Standing Order e e buang gore dikomiti tse botshelo jwa tsone bo nna teng throughout the life of Parliament, unless Parliament is dissolved.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you.

Honourable Molale, followed by Honourable Lesedi.


MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker and good afternoon.

Ke dumalana le amendment e sutisitsweng, ka gore e bua ka review, to assure ourselves gore dikomiti tse di ntse di a bereka ka gore go na le bosupi jwa gore go na le nngwe fale, e nngwe fale.

Jaaka Honourable Motaosane a ne a bua gore o kare ga di bereke, a re ikgotsofatse.
Ga go ise go buiwe ka dissolution ya dikomiti, go buiwa ka the functionality of the committees, and therefore, there is nothing ultra vires the Standing Orders.

In any case go seegilwe tsone tse e leng gore they give strength to the very core existence ya Standing Orders.

Re ile kwa Constitution jaanong.

So there can never be a Standing Order that is ultra vires the Constitution, because the Constitution reign supreme.

So argument eo does not follow.


Selo sa bobedi, what His Honour was saying, o ne a bua ka gore kana re itlhophetse gore re lebe, re sale morago jaaka Honourable Molao a ne a bua, the Westminster System, mme go a supega over and above the non- functionality ya dikomiti gore go na le fa re duleng mo tseleng eo unintended, ya go tswa mo system e re e itlhopetseng.

So this review e ya go baakanya golo foo, ga go buiwe gope ka bo Chairman jwa dikomiti.
Fa o batla go itlhophela Chairman, a o tswa mo opposition, independent, kana a o tswa kwa ruling party, ke business ya komiti.

Rona re bua ka the functionality of the committees.

So instead of just reviewing the non- functioning one, there is nothing wrong in reviewing all committees, ga go a twe they are being dissolved, kana go fetolwa bo Chairman.

All we have to do is whip ourselves back in line and follow the system e re e dumalaneng gore re ya go e sala morago le gore dikomiti di bereka sentle.
So I support the amendment.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Lesedi.

MR LESEDI (SEROWE SOUTH): Ke go leboge Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Nnyaa, ga ke dumalane le amendment e. Kana the mover of the Motion when presenting his Motion lantlha... MR TSOGWANE: Point of procedure.
I think we have a difficulty here, kana rona ba re sa dumalaneng le ba ba dumalang le amendment, ga ke itse gore a re raya gore Lesedi fa a re ga a dumalane le amendment e, o raya gore o dumalana le the Motion as it was moved kana jang?

I have a problem.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke eng o sa mo reetse mme?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke eng o sa mo reetse, gakere o tshwanetse gore o mo reetse?

MR SPEAKER: The question on the floor was that the amendment be agreed to.

What is wrong?

Honourable Lesedi.


MR LESEDI: Mma ke go lebogele tshireletso eo Mr Speaker.
Nnyaa, ke ne ke re ga ke dumalane le amendment e e leng gore Tona o ne a eletsa go e dira mo Motion o, ka mabaka a gore gone jaana fa mmei wa Motion o a o baya Ntlo e pele, bogolo jang fa a santse a simolola ka go supa bo urgency jwa Motion, o supile gore dikomiti tse pedi tse di sa berekeng, ya nna yone kutlwisiso mo Ntlong e. Ya re kwa morago fa a setse a garela, a dumela gore fa a gakololwa ke Motlotlegi Saleshando kana a tlhalosa, a supa gore nnyaa, ga a bue ka go tsenya dikomiti, ene o bua fela ka dikomiti tse pedi tse a neng a dumela gore ga di bereke.
Ke raya ka nako e e leng gore he was convincing this House.

So ga 51 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE e ka ke ya re jaanong re setse re buile mo lebakeng le le kana, e bo e le gore ...(Interruptions)…amendment ya mofuta o, jaanong e senya Motion o o neng Motlotlegi Rre Motaosane a tsile ka one.
Mo mabakeng ao, ga ke dumalane le amendment e, mo nakong e re mo go yone e. amendment proposed by the Minister Honourable Mthimkhulu… I think Honourable Reatile, you were rising on what?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR SPEAKER: Yes, what is your clarification?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Point of procedure before the clarification.

MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR KGAFELA): Point of procedure.
My point of procedure Mr Speaker, ke gore ke dumela gore Ntlo e ntshitse matlho mo tseleng ka gore fa ke tlhaloganya the substantive Motion, motlotlegi a re komiti e tiro ya yone e leng go lebaleba Standing Orders, e adimile tshwene marapo, jaanong re kopa go e rola tiro, tiro e e boele mo diatleng tsa rona re le Mapalamente, e nne rona ba jaanong ba re dirang melawana ya tsamaiso ya Ntlo e. Jaanong go tshwanetse ga fela foo.
The second part ya Motion, I think Motlotlegi is now jumping the gun, le gone gore a go tlaa nna le a Business Advisory Committee, seo se tlaa itshupa jaanong fa tiro e re e tshwere e le mo magetleng a rona e sa tlhole e le kwa komiting.

Eo re tlaa e debate ka yone nako eo.

Ka se sebaka gatwe a komiti e rolwe tiro ka gore e adimile tshwene marapo, re e busetse mo botsading e leng National Assembly yotlhe.
Amendment e e leng gore we are debating, kana jaanong e tsalwa ke gore we have jumped the gun; we are assuming gore it is based on amended Standing Orders which amendment we have not yet done.

We are yet to do re le Palamente fa re sena go dumalana gore re role komiti e tiro, re e iphe ka bo rona, e nne rona ba re e dirang.

That is my point of procedure Mr Speaker, with due respect to Members of Parliament (MPs).
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Kgafela, if you think through the Motion, mongwe o ne a re, I think jokingly, gore gatwe 14 days, ke bo ke re ba tlaa re bona.

Partly joking, but partly interpreting the Motion as it is, until you can reconstitute the Committee to review, we cannot have the 14 days running.

There is a self-contradiction in the Motion when you want to execute and we will not.
Go raya gore le wena Kgabo, you have not moved an amendment, the issue on the table will mean the 52 MR REATILE: Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re Honourable Lesedi, o ne o sa bone gore golo fa gongwe go ka bo go ne go ntse botoka, gape ga apesa Palamente ya lefatshe la Botswana seriti, fa e ne e le gore gongwe bakaulengwe ba ka bo ba go kopile fela ka gore o kare ke wena letlhora kgorwe mo Palamenteng ya lefatshe la Botswana, to resign and ba bo ba tsenya yo ba mmatlang?
Gore go tsweng foo, a bo a dira amendments ka fa ba di batlang ka teng, re bo re gatela pele, go na le gore re bo re tla go nna fa suspending tiro yotlhe.

A gone moo go ne go ka go ketefalela comrade gore o bo o kgonne gore o tsere kgakololo ya to resign mo komiting e go supafalang e tshwere dikhumo tsa lefatshe la Botswana?

MR LESEDI: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Nnyaa, go ne go sena bokete bope.

Tota gongwe kgang jaanong go a supega gore ga se yone eo, mme fa e ne e tla e ntse jalo, e ne e ka amogelesega.
Ke sone se o bonang ke sa le ke tsholeditse ke le Modulasetilo wa Komiti e, mme gongwe ke sa fiwe sebaka sa gore ke supe gore gatwe go diragetse eng.

Ke a leboga honourable, ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

FOR leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND (MR MORWAENG): Ke ADMINISTRATION a tsa Palamente, rraetsho ke go ikokobeletse.
Tshutiso ya ga Honourable Mthimkhulu e ne e le mo Tshutisong ya Motion o o leng fa pele ga rona, mme Honourable Mthimkhulu a supa gore kgang ele ya ‘non-functional’ re e ntshe mo teng, e nne kgang ya gore ‘all committees’.

Jaanong ke ne ke dumela gore Tshutiso ya ga Motlotlegi Mthimkhulu is in order.

Se Honourable Mthimkhulu a se buang ke sone.

Ke dumalana le ene gore a kgang e e ame dikomiti tsotlhe.
Jaanong mogopolo o montle o mongwe ke wa ga Rre Reatile wa gore gongwe bakaulengwe ba ka bo ba ithola marapo fela, ba lese go senya nako, e seng Rre Lesedi a le nosi; botlhe fela ka gore ba itse gore ba mo dikomiting e se gone.

Ba ka bo ba ithola marapo fela straightaway… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.

Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE HONOURABLE MEMBER: O e honourable; o tsene gone fa ke neng ke go batla teng.
tlhofofaditse MR MORWAENG: …ga go molato ka gore dikomiti tse se se teng, ke ne ke re ke dumalana le Honourable Mthimkhulu gore let it apply to all committees.

Ke ne ke kopa jalo gore ka bokhutshwane, ke ema nokeng Tshutiso ya ga Honourable Mthimkhulu.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga ke dumele gore ke sone se Honourable Motaosane, a neng a se batla, le mo senyeditse kgang.

MR SPEAKER: Procedure, Honourable Mmolotsi.

MR MMOLOTSI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


Tota fela kana Standing Order sa rona se supa gore Tshutiso or amendment to a Motion, ga e a tshwanela gore jaanong a bo e le gore e bua se sele completely different from se Motion o neng o se bua.

Ka fa e leng gore amendment e e ntse ka teng, go ya ka nna ka fa ke e bonang ka teng, it has completely deviated from the original intention of the mover of the Motion.
Jaanong ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re gongwe o e sekaseke gone foo gore a mme amendment e is it not ultra vires our Standing Orders?

MR MORWAENG: Ke ne ke santse ke le mo floor kana Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: That is why he was clarifying and not debating.

MR MORWAENG: Thank you sir.

Nnyaa, ke ne ke re Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, kgang e e tlhamaletse.
Tshutiso ya ga Honourable Mthimkhulu is in order, ga e senye sepe, kgang ya teng fela ke gore go ntsha ‘non-functional’ wa dikomiti dingwe, go ama dikomiti tsotlhe ka bokhutshwane.

Ka bokhutshwane, e seng komiti nngwe, e leng tsotlhe.

Motlotlegi Mothusa Tautona o tlhalositse gore ga re ka ke ya re kamoso, re bo re tlela e kamoso, kamoso re tlela komiti e nngwe.
Nnyaa, jaaka Motlotlegi Rre Molale a bua gore go tlaa sekasekwa (review) seemo sotlhe gore at the end of the day, re nne le dikomiti tse di dirang sentle mo Palamenteng gore tiro e ye kwa pele.

Ke ne ke kopa ke ikokobeditse mongwame gore nnyaa, a re dumalane le Tshutiso ya ga Honourable Mthimkhulu, Motion ke o o mo Palamenteng, mme ke wa rona re le Mapalamente.

Re tla ka dikakanyo tse re tsayang gore di ka dira gore Palamente e bereke (function) botoka.
Ka a le kalo, ke ema nokeng Tshutiso ya ga Honourable Mthimkhulu Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kante wena o tlhola o dira eng kwa Ministry wa Presidential Afairs, o bona go na le se o se dirang?

MR MORWAENG: Wai!

Ga ke ka ke ka go araba rra, le roga batho.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mmolotsi, if I rise from your intervention gore if we were to agree to the amendment, the amendment will have the effect of leaving the Motion totally different.

I do not agree and I will tell you why.


The Motion as is before you, not amended will mean that if it passes, somebody will have to determine which are the main functioning portfolio committees.

Somebody will have to do that.

Ga ke itse gore ke mang who is going to say this one is not functioning but e e siame is functioning and this one is not functioning.

I am not sure… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga se gore jaanong e tlaa nna Office of the President (OP) ka tota kgang e yotlhe ke ya batho ba OP?
MR SPEAKER: Ga ke a go fa tetla ya go bua.

O tlaa bua le OP kwa le leng teng mmogo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O mo kobe Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: O a itse; Selebi Phikwe ga a kgakala.

That is the way I understand it, that it is really an open game but if it is not meaningful when you look at the committee, whatever …(Inaudible)… if we find those which you think are non-functioning, then you should park the Motion of course.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go ipuelwa fela ke bo Morwaeng; ga go tlhaloganngwe gore gatwe go iwa kae.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re a le tshaba Wynter, le ditlhapa kana batho ba kganetso.

MR SPEAKER: Any other clarification, you have finished Honourable Member?

Honourable Lesedi!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ne o mpiditse Mr Speaker, o fetogile?

MR SPEAKER: Ga ke a fetoga, Lesedi is holding the floor.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, Lesedi o feditse, ga bo ga tsena Morwaeng.

MR SPEAKER: E ne e le Morwaeng, yes.


You are telling the truth.

Dr Tshabang.

53 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE DR TSHABANG (NKANGE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke tsaya gore le fa ke ne ke sa dumalane le Motion o originally, jaanong go nna worse fa e le gore go a go ntshiwa non-functioning Parliamentary Committees go sekasekwa committees tsotlhe.
Motive wa teng o clear fela o tswa from Office of the President (OP), by the Vice President (VP), Honourable Morwaeng and Honourable Mthimkhulu, the trio e e tswang kwa OP.

I think they must just come out with their own Motion ba tlogele Motion wa ga Honourable Motaosane be debated in its original form.
I do not think reviewing all Parliamentary committees is an exercise that can be done within 14 days jaaka ba batla go bua, also if the exercise to review Parliamentary committees and their functions, and their functionality at the moment belongs to the Speaker, I think that function should not be taken away by the Office of the President.
To review these committees is very easy, you call the programmes that they have been following, you also look at the activities that they have been doing and they are reported to the Speaker and they are seen whether they are still functioning or not.

E nngwe e is just to fish around and find ways of trying to install and change, it is trying to find a way of going around and putting Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) Members as Chairpersons, the motive is very clear.
You can disguise as much as possible, but we can see you through the veil.

Le senyetsa motho Motion fela, allow Honourable Motaosane’s Motion to be debated and the merits should come out without going ahead to distort the intents of the Motion.

Nobody is afraid of anything in our Parliamentary committees, so we are open for review and scrutiny.

E nngwe e ya insinuation that we are not performing and we are denying Parliament the service it deserves by non-functional committees, is beside the point.
I think the main point is to try and find a way of meddling in the affairs of the committee by the Executive, especially the OP.

MR KEORAPETSE: Clarification.

Through you Mr Speaker, Honourable Dr Tshabang kana kgang e ke tsaya gore e tshwanetse e bo e le recorded golo gongwe mo Hansard, fa Mothusa Tautona a ngongorega gore o ipotsa gore go tlile jang gore opposition e bo e eteletse pele dikomiti tse di kana.
Wena o bona golo mo go ka tswa go dirwa ke eng gore go simolola fela ka, bogolo jang ka 11th Parliament go ne go na le kgang ya dikomiti e the ruling party, e tswa e le gore they are in the minority fa go tla mo Mapalamenteng a a eligible to serve in committees ba batla gore ba etelele dikomiti e bile ba nne majority mo go tsone tsotlhe.

O bona golo mo go ka tswa go dirwa ke eng, gore e bo go ntse jaaka fa go ntse?
O a gakologelwa mokaulengwe gore ka 11th Parliament go ka bo go nnile worse, fa re ne re sa a ka ra iketsha out of inter-Parliamentary committees, tse maikaelelo e neng e le go kwalela kwa those bodies gore nnyaa dikomiti tsa Palamente ya lefatshe la Botswana di laolwa ke phathi e e busang jaanong ga re ke re participate le mo Inter-Parliamentary Committees, gore ba kgoreletsege ba se ka ba tsena koo, ka gore fa go sena opposition ga ba ka ke ba letlelelwa go tsena.
A o a itse gore ke gone ka fa re neng ra kgona ka teng to instil some sense ya democratisation ya Palamente le oversight function, ka gore re bo re felela re dira (serve) sentle mo dikomiting.

A o a itse gore ke se re neng ra se dira ka 11th Parliament?

DR TSHABANG: Thank you for the clarification Honourable Keorapetse.
I think it is very clear that the motive is to silence the voice of the opposition and oversight, because in these committees there are a lot of things that come out that show a lot of maladministration, corruption and misdeeds by the Executive.

They want to stop this kind of investigation, and digging.
I think it is very clear that the current administration is moving towards the dictatorial tendency, many dictators started by trying to silence the voice of the minority, the voice of the oversight functions, the voice of the opposition.
It is systematic, ga se gore ba tsoga fela phakela ba bo ba re, no, tswalang-tswalang, they bring all these laws to shut up the voice of the minority and you did very well to write to international bodies, so that counterparts or other countries should know that the opposition is not being treated well.

Fa o utlwa motho fela a emelela a re, ‘no, Honourable Kapinga o ne a emelela a re embarrass in the international world,’ I think this is just to silence voices of the Kapingas and Tshabangs.
There is nothing else, it is a tendency ya development ya dictatorial regimes in many African countries, they started like that, systematically changing the laws which are responsible to giving voice to the opposition.

Thank you Mr Speaker, I do not support this amendment.

MR SPEAKER: I see many hands.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke Speaker!


tsholeditse Mr 54 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE MR SPEAKER: If you can hold your horses Honourable Ramogapi.

I see many hands, and having listened to the debates I see a clear division and we are just debating an amendment.
It is time I think, to put the question to get done with the matter, because we are not going to get...(Interruptions)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, mphe sebaka ke ko ke bue ka seemo sa komiti e ya gago.

MR SPEAKER: We are going back to the main Motion, we are talking about the amendment.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, ke kopa procedure foo, o tlaa mpaya mo tseleng Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Ga o a utlwa, I have listened to the debate by Honourable Members.
There is a clear repetition of those for and those against, the only way we can end this is by putting the question and voting, so that we make progress.

Remember the Motion has got just two hours, fa le sa batle to debate Motion that is okay.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure or clarity Mr Speaker, ga ke sure gore is it a procedure or clarity, but I think it is clarity, before you make that decision?

MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you Mr Speaker.


One thing that I just want to clarify is now at the end of the Motion, who is going to be given an opportunity to sum up the Motion when there is this amendment?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motaosane, ...(Interruptions)... for you to ask that question, you remain the mover of the Motion.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR MOTAOSANE: Borra nte ke reetseng Speaker gore a reng, ga ke utlwe because you are making noise.
Please let me listen to the Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: ...(Inaudible)... Ga a a re o batla barutabana, ga ke itse gore ke eng le sa bule dikole batho ba ya teng ba ya go le reetsa le ruta teng koo, kana le ithaya le re le barutabana.

The Motion, Honourable Motaosane, has been brought by you, in terms of our Standing Orders you are the mover of the Motion.
As Parliament, we have amended it here and there or may have amended it here and there, if of course you do not want it anymore, that also is open to you, but you are the mover sir of the Motion, even as amended if it can be amended.

So the question Honourable Members is that the amendment be agreed to.

...(Interruptions)... HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, the question is that the amendment be agreed to.
We are going to do a roll call, so that we are clear.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ne a re o bua sengwe Mr Speaker Motaosane.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O kgona go mmona mo face fela gore ga a rata wa itse.

MR SPEAKER: A o Motaosane?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, o raya gore o ka botsa fela, ga go na mo gotweng “ke ne ke botsa fela.” MR SPEAKER: A o Motaosane?

Ba ba ithayang ba re ke barutabana, a ba bule dikole ba ye go ruta teng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, Motaosane o a tshwenngwa Mr Speaker.
MR SPEAKER: Ke sale ke fetsa sekole, I do not know how old you were; 1973.

55 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke ne ke santse ke le kgakala sir.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re ne re seyo Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, let us look at our gadgets so that when you are called, you can press and vote.
CLERK: MEMBER’S NAME His Excellency Dr Masisi Honourable Autlwetse Honourable Balopi Honourable Boko Honourable Brooks Honourable Billy Honourable Dr Dikoloti Honourable Dr Dow Honourable Gare Honourable Dr Gobotswang Honourable Greeff Honourable Hikuama Honourable Kablay Honourable Kapinga Honourable Kekgonegile Honourable Keorapetse Honourable Kereng Honourable Kgafela Honourable Khama Honourable Dr Kwape Honourable Lesedi Honourable Lelatisitswe Honourable Lesaso Honourable Dr Letsholathebe Honourable Letsholo Honourable Leuwe Honourable Lucas Honourable Majaga Honourable Makwinja Honourable Manake Honourable Mangwegape-Healy Honourable Mathoothe Honourable Dr Matsheka Honourable Mmolotsi Honourable Mmusi Honourable Moabi 56 AYE NO ABSTAIN ABSENT √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ Honourable Moagi Honourable Moatlhodi Honourable Modukanele Honourable Mokgethi Honourable Molale Honourable Molao Honourable Molebatsi Honourable Monnakgotla Honourable Morwaeng Honourable Moswaane Honourable Motaosane Honourable Motsamai Honourable Mthimkhulu √ Honourable Mzwinila √ Honourable Nkawana Honourable Pule √ Honourable Rakgare √ Honourable Ramogapi Honourable Reatile Honourable Regoeng √ Honourable Saleshando Honourable Segokgo √ Honourable Serame √ Honourable Shamukuni √ Honourable Thiite Honourable Dr Tshabang Honourable Tshere His Honour Tsogwane √ √ √ √ √ √ √ HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, I had problems with connection, ke Dumelang Saleshando and I vote no.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is at the rally.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, gakere o a utlwa?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go ise go ye kgakala fela, o simolotse.

MR SPEAKER: The results of the voting; the ‘Ayes’, 33, ‘No’, 15, ‘Absent’, 16.

So the Ayes have it.

Amendment agreed to.

MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Review of the Standing Orders and Composition of all Parliamentary Committees MR SPEAKER: Now we are going back to debating the Motion as amended.
MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Mr Speaker, ke lebogela sebaka se sa go akgela mo Motion o. Ka maswabi nako e setse e tsamaile mme sa ntlha fela ke batla go bua se gore Motion o o tlisiwa fa ke mafoko a a kileng a buiwa ke Honourable Mthimkhulu maloba.

O ne a bua gore gongwe solution fela e 57 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE e ba saletseng ke gore ba ntshe Speaker mo maemong.
Ke dumela gore o tswa go kgalemelwa golo gongwe gore tswa mo go Speaker jaanong o bone maretshwa a mangwe a o ka dirisang maikaelelo a gago.

Mthimkhulu o buile fa mongwe le mongwe a mo reeditse gore jaanong… ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC (MR MTHIMKHULU): ADMINISTRATION Procedure.

Mr Speaker, the Honourable Member is attributing words that he says I said here in open Parliament to me.

I never made such statements during Parliamentary debates like these.
I do not know whether he is mixing these proceedings in open Parliament and General Assembly.

MR KAPINGA: O se buile kae?

MR SPEAKER: A re General Assembly.

MR KAPINGA: It does not change the complexion of my argument.

If you made it in the General Assembly, it is fine but the point is that wena le ba o jang le bone le tsere tshwetso golo gongwe gore le batla go ntsha Speaker mo maemong ka gore o a le kgoreletsa.

E bile o buile jalo wa re le bone gore sekgoreletsi mo Palamenteng e ke Speaker.
The Honourable Speaker a go bolelela gore if you want to start it, you can start it now.

Ga o tlhabiwe ke ditlhong Honourable Mthimkhulu o le Minister yo o kananyana yo mošha, a rookie o bo o ka bua dipuo tse di ntseng jalo against the Speaker, a man who has served this country for so many years with honour and distinction.

Wena o itsenela mo maemong maabanenyana fela jaana o bo o ipolelela gore you know better to the extent that you can start machinations tsa gore o ka ntsha Speaker mo setilong.
Jaanong ka o bone gore maanonyana a gago ga a ka ke a bereka, jaanong o tla ka Motion fa… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR KAPINGA: I am not going to give you a clarification, I am not yielding.

Ka gore o bone gore maanonyana a gago ga a ka ke a bereka, wa re jaanong le phatlalatse dikomiti tsa Palamente.
You want to carry out a Parliamentary coup ka gore se le batlang go se dira se ke go menola Puso ya Palamente ka fa Palamente e itlhophetseng ka teng under the guise ya gore ga le itumelele gore mang golo gongwe a reng, ga a convene komiti ya gagwe.

Le a lebala gore go na le mongwe in this House yo o bidiwang gotwe the Leader of the House yo e leng gore he is a member of the Business Advisory Committee.

One of the duties of the Business Advisory Committee is to recommend amendments to the Standing Orders.
E a bua under Standing Order 2, ke tiro ya the Business Advisory Committee go dira tiro eo.

Ke batla gore e re a tla go bua a re bolelele gore ene e le Leader of the House ke leng a kileng a tla… MR MORWAENG: Procedure.

The procedure is that the Leader of the House o tlile ka those amendments, o di isitse kwa go leng maleba teng, ke raya jaaka Rre Kapinga a supa gore ga go a direga jalo.

Sone se a se buang a re o se dirile ke re …(Interruptions)… Kapinga mme go padile, that is why we are here.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kae gone kwa a isitseng amendments teng?

Go tilwe di isiwa ke ene?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Office of the President ga e a bolaya, ga itse le fa e le clarifications.

MR KAPINGA: As far as I am concerned, there have been no recommendations that have come from the Business Advisory Committee e e eteletsweng pele ke Vice President gore a Standing Orders di baakanngwe and 1, 2, 3, 4 …(Interruptions)… in the prescribed manner.

HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Correction.
Thank you.

Nnyaa, tota o mpogisa fela motho wa Modimo, Business Advisory Committee is not chaired by me, it is chaired by the Speaker.

Ke ene mogolo kwa.

Rona ba re mo teng ka gore re itse ditsamaiso jaaka di ntse, re dirile maiteko.

Ke boleletse Speaker, yo e leng Modulasetilo gore a kope Modulasetilo wa Standing Committee to convene a meeting.

Ke ile ka dira our submission a bo a bua gore le ba opposition they have made their submission to the Chairman.
Ke raya gore re dirile go bo go pala gore Chairman a dire jalo.

Thank you.

MR KAPINGA: Ke sone se ke buang gore se re se batlang sa boammaaruri ke gore le batla to declare a Motion of no confidence in the Speaker mme le a dikologa le a mo tshaba ka gore mabaka a lona a loleya.

That one you know, you have very, very poor reasons for coming up with this thing.
Jaanong go na le gore le lebagane le Speaker fa e le gore wena o le Leader of the House o na le matshwenyego ao, o a tlisitse kwa go Speaker, ga se ka ga diragala sepe, o a itse kwa o tshwanetseng go leba teng, not to come and try and 58 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 6:03 p.m. until Wednesday 6th April, 2022 at 2:00 p.m. carry out a Parliamentary coup.

You are now showing your true colours.


E rile ke bua mo Palamenteng re simolola ka le raya ka re you are a primitive democracy and now you are showing it.

Ga go na batho ba ba tlhaloganyang democracy sentle fela ya malatsi a gompieno yo o ka tlang a bua fa a re ka gore, “re a busa re tshwanetse go laola dikomiti tsotlhe.” Where did you learn that?

Who taught you that?

Le go ithutile kae?

Mo lefatsheng lefe?


You are talking about Westminster, it talks about Parliamentary democracy, multi-party, ditiro di a neelanwa mo Palamenteng.

Probably some of you think this Chairmanship of committees is a do or die for some of us.

It does not matter for me.

If you remove me tomorrow, my life continues e bile that is when I am going to hammer you even with more freedom because gompieno ke a itshwara.
I restrain myself ke itse gore ke Chairman, I am not just an ordinary member, I restrain myself.

Remove me from the Chairmanship, I will deal with you ke itse jaanong gore ga gona sepe se se ntshwarang diatla.

I want to warn you.

Secondly, I want to warn gore le tshameka dices, we will resign from all the Parliamentary committees le bo le sala ka gone gore le buse tota ka fa le batlang ka teng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Resign Kenny.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Interruptions!)...


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa resign!

Resign!

…(Inaudible)…kwa mafatsheng.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Interruptions!)...

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)...

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)...

MR SPEAKER: The Leader of the House, move a Motion of adjournment.
MOTION ADJOURNMENT LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Mr Speaker, while we are still in good mood and we are ending on a high note, I ask this Parliament now to adjourn, because we have come to the end of our business.

Question put and agreed to.
59 Hansard No 205Tuesday 5th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B.
B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae 60 Hansard No 205