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PARLIAMENT ARY DEBATES THE OFFICIAL REPORT [VOLUME l] PROCEEDINGS FIRST LEGISLATURE AND DEBATES OF THE FIRST SESSION OF TIIE CONSTITUTED UNDER THE BRITISH GUIANA (CONSTITUTION) ORDER IN COUNCIL, 1961 3rd Sitting Thursday, 9th November, 1961 SENATE The Honourable Senate met a 2 p.m. Prayers [The President in the Chair] Present: Appointe d under Arfrle 47 (2) (a): His Honour the President, Senator Senator the Honourable the Honourable Ashton Chase H.J.
M. Hubbard, Senator C. V. Nunes, Minister Minister of Trade and Industry and Social of Education Development Senator Se.nator Sena.tor Senator Senator C. V. Christian M. Khan C. S. Persaud Christina H. Thomas Ram�attan Appointed Senator under Article Anne Jardim 47 (2) (b): under Article 47 (2) (c,1: O.B.E., Appointed Senator A. G. Tasker, Senator C. V. Too-Chung, Mr.

I. Crum-Ewing-Clerk Mr. E. V. Viapree-Assistant Vice-President.

of the Legislature Clerk of the Legislature.


19 hu.lependence For 9TH NOVIMBER, 1961 British Guiana 20 ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT in volume, and is no qu:.irt'er of which these-cries have not fallen.

of this <]lobe, in sure that there l am quit,� the corner;: H.E.

ACKNOWLEDGES SENATE'S THANKS FOR MESSAGE some effective On March 31, 1960, form was shown to these cries i n the acc.

:ptance dcrn:e by lkr rvtaji::-.ty"s and the stat'�ment J should mission, of the principk which.
with your per­ read says: of Indepcn­ Government; The President: I have to inform o n the oc,�asion of the ope�­ of the Senate, that the ex­ of thanks of this Senate tu His the Gowmor for the Mcssaee you, members pression Excelkncv he delivered ing of the Legislature.

him; and His Excellency has r�plicd thank this Senate for of that message.

thanks in respect PUBLIC BUSINESS wa-; convey�d to to of its expr�ssion MOTION INDEPENDENCE GUIANA FOR BRITISH '·Wher1.
:as it is the inherent rie.ht of all people to administer and to determin their own ·affairs And Wherl'as of Her Majesty's Governmen independence to their suhjccr people: e their own destinies: policy the declared t. to grant it is And Whereas ment has accepted pendence Her Maje-;ty's ( iovern­ the principl e c,f inde­ Guiana: for British that chan'.!e::.

for British whichever should attain period is the held under the new ure introduce:!
or upon it being decided ption that constitt,­ than two vears after tl1e first hoth Houses of the British as a result then if at anv titn(' "Her Majesty\ Government accept the principle of independeih.

:e Guiana.
:e Guiana.

On the ass11111 tional of this Conference, not earlier General Election Constitution the West Indies Fe<leration independence, shorter, Guiana Legislature pass resolutions asking Her Majesty·s Government United Kingdom to �rant independence to British Guiana, ment will C()nfcrence practicable Provided bv the deci•;ion c;,ninn should attain not be reg:,rded considerin tive British had been year.''
earlv thereafter h) 1.:onsider t<' implement that the West Indies Fed­ would until it one 1wt less than this request.

caused Her Majesty's Govern­ g anv chan12e in the then opera­ that ihe ncv,, situation Guiana Constitution independence caJI a further in effect for \\ h?n it would he in the as .i.

:iving f!roua<ls for tlrnt thi:-.

House Secretary of State to fix a date durfrg 1962 Be ll Resolved requests Her Maiesty's for the Colonies when this independent of Nations".
and �for:ial country shall become fully h within the Commonwealt (The M.iniste:- of Fducation DevelormenO.

very carefully, we tutional as a result preci�e.

June 27.

1961.

The statement Nunes (Minister Social Development): on: since the inauguration would find that consti­ introduced chan!

!es have be'en To be of this Conference.


these changes w\:re on introduced goes If we should examine this statement of Educa­ Senator tion and President, People's Party about 12 years ago, this Party has fought for the Inde­ Guiana.

With you1 ;,endence permission, the aims of this Party: Progressive Mr. of the of Brifr,h I should like to quote one ot "To pursue constant] self-determination dence for the people of British y the goal of and national indepen­ Gui,rna:•· '· ...
If at any time not earlier than two the first General Election vears after under the new Constitutio being decided that the West Jndies lion should attain independence.

.

. "

ever period is the shorter n or uoon it Fc<lera­ which­ held This Party has not ceased in its es and its cries for independ'cnce struggl of this country.
Its cries have increased First of all� the opcrativJc word has .. and, as far as we know, was taken on J unc 16, I 961. been '"decided a decision at the London Constitutional which stated that the West Indies Fed-­ on Independence cration would Con-ferencc attain For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British GtJiana 22 clause "whichever like to make a few statements the fears which others on both inside and outside emphasize be so.

of this House, may have.

1 It may not the word "may''.


to allay context of this, And if we are to refer 21 Independence 31st May, 1962.

Again, I repeat that the operative word, in the is "d'ecided.''

to the concluding period is the shorter", obviously, has been the nearly five-month which has just elapsed.
fote, quite in order for both Houses of the British Resolutions ernment Independence to pass Guiana Legislature Gov­ asking Her Majesty's in the United Kingdom to grant period period see that the It seems, there­ to British Guiana.

then we will, shorter I have been informed that the Legislative Lower House-the -has already this Motion now seeks to have this S'enate - pass the other House-the To continue: Resolution.

passed its Ass1embly and Resolution, .


Her Majesty's will Government call a further Confer­ when it would be early thereafter ence to consider practicable to implement this request".

J shall only emphasize the word "early".

There follows the provision: My Government Guiana, the princi­ of Independence accepts to the present political Commonwealth of rights Guiana.

My Government which now in the Constitution stands for the which hav1e been en­ ple, for British within the British Nations.
fundamental shrined gives effect in British situation ment also stands for a policy of active neutrality, but without Guianese.

socialism, your permission from the Manifesto .gress<ve tiun: My Government but it emphasizes the sovereignty of I should like to quot'e of the People's Party for the 1961 General El'ec­ limiting My Govern­ seeking Pro­ also accepts - and with aid from any source, "There will continue to be room for Industries investors.
private ised in a number of ways-privately, operatively, tion of these".

and by a combina­ will be organ­ publicly co­ " .... that the new situation caused that the West Indies Fed­ should attain independence by the decision eration not be regarded considering tive British Guiana Constitution it had been in effect for not less than one year".
as giving grounds for any change in the then opera­ until would stands to follow' that while It, therefore, there will be a we accept socialism, even in the period of an mixed economy, indenendent Guiana.

Now, I should also like to refer to page 2 of the hon.
the Premier's Assembly; to the Legislative I quote the Premier's own words: and here Report We all know that this Constitution came into effect on June 27, 1961, the fixing of the date, which therefore, we have requested to be don'e in 1962, will fall even within the provisions this statement 'ernment.
from Her Majesty's of Gov­ which it is my privil­ I think, This Motion, ege to introduce, and non-contentious, is no need for me to say anymore but that whatever has been stated here is what this House is trying and will comply with.

I should, is quite simple and I think there to comply with however, "I believe ideally in the nationaliza ­ means of pro­ This and exchange.

of a tion of all the important duction, distribution will ensure a fairer distribution country's wealth than any other system.
But I also have to recognise they are.

While I reserve our right, nation does, to nationalize sovereign whatever we think should be nationalized have explicitly intention sugar and bauxite panies today dominate British developed".

we in the public interest staled that we have no of nationalizing the existing These com­ our economy.

but under­ Guiana is still largely things as as any companies.

industry 23 l ndependenc e For 9TH NovE.MBER, 1961 British Guiana 24 [SENATOR NUNES] .
: 15 p.m. Mr. President, this Government also of a truly be thought development nation.

There are other p.oints of when planning For example, stands for the Guianese which must for an independent we have to think of a name for this country of ours, a nati0nal antfa�m, national receive consideration but these points will Guiana.

as early as possible.

flag and a Mr. President, a Motion asking Her of State for the Colonies Majesty's Senator Thomas: hon.
Members of the Senate, we are now debating Secretary a date for discussing British free Guiana.

political which I believe this country prosperity.

and economic Indep\�ndence Guiana - Independence for a have We would like to Independence and wilJ bring progress and I will quote thus: is a vital necessity to fi:x for for independence giving representatives Territories.

such Cey­ lon, Ghana and so on.''

as India.


Pakistan, "After World War H, Britain started to the then Colonial and the P.N.C., 35 constituen Of the 35 elected Guiana's by 20 and 11 mcm­ favour of Indep'.

;nd cies, 31 of British ence.

I be­ are in lieve we can accep t this information as true in that the P.P.P.

who are represent'cd t:ers respectively, pendence earlier recited statement, that this Motion is simple tentious moving that -- Her Majesty's .
I therefore are in favour for British have pleasure in I find, as I said previousl and non-con­ Guiana.

Having of Inde­ Government y, this movement, of Education, b'ecn said from the That being so, as i t has aJready by the Minister inception of told the people that only by l ndep'cnd­ cnce we would be abJc to improve conditions.

British decided speaker I have to say that.

for was long Indcpend'.

:ncc Our last that already.

Guiana, at the last Conference.

has mentioned the P.P.P.
"Whereas right ot it is the inherent their own affairs to administer all people and to determine And whereas it policy Government subject their own destinies; is the declared to grant in­ people: Govern Her Majesty's the principle of inde­ of Her Majesty's dependence to their And whereas ment has accepted pendence for British Be it resolved Guiana: that this House re­ Her Majesty's quests for the Colonies when this Countrv within dependent Nations.·· of State­ Secretary 1962 to fix a date during 1,haJJ become fully in­ the Commonwealth of The President: The question before Secretary House requests of State for the to fix a dat� during 1962 when shaJJ become fully inde­ the House is, ··That this Her Majesty's Colonies this Country pcndtnt Nation·,."
within the Commonweal th of ltldieve that anything the House of ng having fu11 rights agreement does wrong if this Stnat� has decided is in that in­ inserted in of the Party which cDnccrni Assembly Party in the Govern­ with the Majority ment and also the P.N .C.

I sav that there is nothing the same.

Members is the P.N .C.

arc worried but: I want them to re• safeguards, proper member that it was the P.P.P.

the sisted on Constitution Rights.


the time comes for us to have that when full lndcpendc-ncc, it would incorporate safeguards in this Bill of Rights.

cDuntry need be afraid: there will be ful) privi-­ kgc for anv foreign here and in;cst a credit ment of British and it will be his �noncy.

to the people and th'� Govern­ The.� sam'� Party has declared -·- I refer to the BiH of (3uiancse in thi� investor to com� for c\'�ry Guiana.
No onr Senator Khan: beg to second this Motion, that my right to speak be reserved.

Mr. President.

and r'.

:quc\f I will sav in conclusion is only a matter of people will be pcndcncc therefore time, so that Guianesc able to steer their own di:stiny ancf that lndc-­ 25 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British GuJiana 26 and prosperity not only plan for progress but for the generation, for the present g'cnerations to come.
They will be able to have such an opportunity, if we get more revenue not only for primary schools and secondary bly, a university.

Mr. President, I would say that this but, possi­ schools Motion should be supported loyal Guianese.

ask the President here, and then everyone wise, to support That being so, I would and the hon.

Members this Motion.
would see it by 'every in­ Government whichever or upon it being decided pass resolutions asking in the United that the should attain period is the Gui­ both Houses of the British stitution West Indies Federation dependence, shorter, ana Legislature Her Majesty's to British Kingdom to grant independence Guiana, will Government Her Majesty's early thereafter Conference to consider to implement the new situation that the West Indies Federation attain would not be regarded as giving grounds for considering change in the then operative ana Constitution for not Jess than one year."
any Gui­ British until it had been in effect that .

Provided caused by the .decision independence call a further this request should when it would be practicable that Government This Motion, on the contrary, is The Pre.sident: Would any other like to speak on the Motion Senator before the Hom.'c?

If no other Senator would like to speak -- it on th'e principle Senator Jardim: Mr. President, in I want it of that I and my , firstly, but on the question now'.
We are basing this on the fact that this of an agree­ standing to oppose this Motion, to be clearly understood Party are not opposing of Independence, 'Independence opposition Motion is a contravention ment signed by both Dr. Jagan and Mr. Burnham.

Secondly, has no mandate from the people to se!ek to move this Motion.

arc not economically cannot therefore dent.

Thirdly.
Thirdly.

that we independent and indepen­ be politically held in London in I want to refer to the Report of the Conference - the Guiana Constitu­ London Constitutional Report of the British tional Conference March, 1960, to which Senator has referred.

Far from this Motion being in Jine with the findings of this Conference, of it.

which l hould like to read the section deals with this matter which has already been r ad to thi House.
I quote: it is in contravention Nunes or upon it being decided that the should attain period_, is the words are "if at any time than two years after the Gen­ held under the new Con­ The operative not earli'er eral Election stitution West Indies Federation independence, whichever shorter, asking Her Majesty's United Kingdom to grant independence to British Provided than one year of self-government between that decision being moved.

both Houses pass resolutions in the Government and this Motion Guiana."
that not les8 elapses to and to grant It is therefore signed by Dr. J agan and since our General since the decision of the West Indies Feder­ in contravention moved long before two years have Election b'"'ing elapsed long before one year of self-government has elapsed Independence ation.

t.He agreement Mr. Burnham at the London Conference.
for this If there were any justification agreement my Party to be contrav'cned, and I would see no reason to oppose it, but there is no justification from th1e people No Party won a mandate to seek Independence it is true, raised Progressive Party, of Independence in its mani­ question festo, and the answer from the peopfe was a vote of 42 per cent.

Furthermore 42 per cent.-is not representative cross-section of the people of this coun­ try.

Mr. Burnham himself October Green on Sunday, now.


The People's .

whatsoever said at Bourda this 'of a 15, 1961: the "Her Maje ty's Government accept of independence the principle Gui na.

On the assumption tutional ult of this Conference, not earlier General then at any time than two years after the first for British that consti­ as a re- are introduced held under the new Con- Election changes 27 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Gu,!ana 28 fSFSATOR JARDIM] .. What did Jagan <.Io?
He depended on race and racial The New Nation hatred to win.''

had this to say in 20th October, its l�ditorial 1961: of Friday, Partv be-• "The Pe;!opie's tw�_er1 1957. a following po11tical the doctrine fullest racial Progressive n?

today has built l;p its to the of Apanja;I or exclusiveness··.

continu'cs by exploitinc: The editorial - AssJcmblies.

And Mr. Burn­ and guarantees .

of Jndepen­ equivocal.


Either that the coun­ Regional ham asks for safeguards J:lis sta_nd on the question ccncc 1s completely you are abso]ute,ly certain try js ready for Imkpendence prepared to that certainty not ask for Independenc ar:d in the and guarantees.

gua rds and guarantees.

take the consequences of or you arc not.


You do e in one breath other hedge it with There arc no -safc­ safeguards and you are now He admits ln his Party's ged tool, Dr. Ja,rnn and vet he of 'In­ now' he can speak for 4 l _g- won his way to power with is that on this vital isst;e unity'·:· that race won the by implication that '•Havin lhis double-ed calls for p{:ace.

love and Mr. Burnham admits Election.

his own vote was raciaL pretending de�ndenc� per cent.

of the electorate.
of the electorate.

manifesto there was no question depencrence now'.

But Mr. Burnham has carri'ed supports now', but is hedging it mands for safeguards rights.

individual.

the Constitution [ndepcndcnce, by two-thirds and carried orate - by 66 2 / 3 per people.

to bt amended under m must be held of the 'dect­ cent.

of the ty even further - he He demands that for about with dc-­ and guarant a rderendu his absurdi of 'In­ ees of 2.30 J)./11.
the Motion for ·Independence fn the light of the experience in Ghana, it is clear that no safeguards guarantees stitution.

guarantees, implicitly, consequences can be written rds and If you ask for safegua and tacit]v you arc admitting, that you are uncertain of the of I m.lepemknc'-' now.

and into any Con­ ce has of ·Independence My Partv is uncertain of the crn1- sequences now'.

The Conf'cren London Constitutional the need for internal self­ accepted govemment.
Both Dr. Jagan and Mr. Burnham signed the R'eport of this have proved ference.

no m andate has been given t o tlie Gov­ ernment with its minority cent in the Ekction.

self has stated fought Indept..::ndcnc.

: on race.

and that by implication now was not an issue.

vote of 42 pet Mr. Burnham him-• that the elections The.

Elections Con­ that wcr-.

: Ghana's amen<lnt!cnt.


it is in­ In the light of this proposal experience in [n Febmarv, compro­ under teresting t o follow Constitutional 1957, there was a last--minute s Constitution.

mise on Ghana· which 5 Regional Assemblies were to be set up and th1 was to he \!

Constitution changed only by a two-thirds vote in Par­ Ii�.ment and in a majority of the 5 Re­ Assemblies.

gional In December, I <JS�'> I and v,.


:,1r l O months lat'�r the Ghana· Gnvern-­ ment passed the Constitution Bill to permit Restrictions) the �onstitution by a simple Parlta.mcnt (Repeat of alteration of majority i n the consulting and without I believe on his way to the United Added to alJ this are the econornk The first step the figure J 3 mil1ion.

Dr. Jag�m mentioned ot This is money that we realiti�s of Independence.
has taken has been to the Government rush abroad to ask for help ---help to the 1e xtent , )f $4 that in Trinidad, States.

$500 million.

need, but what is this demand for mon\;V hut an admissi �'nce?

Marxist important be fre\:, econom1c sen�'<'· we be independent ment admits.

on of economic depend­ philosophy quest10n: in th�-political "How can a man sense, when i.n the that our by its own actions, he i:, unfreeT How c.an asks the very \vhen our Govern.
9TH NOVEMBE� 1961 Briti h Guiana 30 For --Qependent on help When Ghana·was th1ere was a sur­ built up from its 29 Independence economy is totally from other countries?

given its Independence plus of £50 million When India became in­ cocoa exports.

dependent it had a vast sterling in London after the War, on which the Indian Government port itself d1ence.
could draw to sup­ and its new-found Indepen­ balanc'c for two on the West Indies be .a period of self-government or at years after the August Elections, was least ne y�ar after the decision reached Indeipendence, and that during that time no measures should be taken to affect the status quD; and that the two Houses of this Legis­ asking should pass a Resolution lature after these periods of for Independence time had elapsed-not before.
Secondly, that there is no mandate of this country because the election of racial division Thirdly, now has not been examined, no money to meet that cost.

to change the agreement, in this country.

from the people and we have Assembly Canada': Where are we go­ New Zealand, Where are we going like diplomatic Independence was won as a result In the Legislative that the cost of Independence debate of the United and money­ .
We have industries missions, in all the countries of the and the high salaries cost of housing, To take this further, costs money, and we have none.

Our assets are debts, deficits Government losing to ask for money from abroad.

Where are we going to find th'e money to pay for things High of the Commissioners Commonwealth India, Pakistan, Ghana, Australia, Where are We going to find the money to do these things?

to find money to pay for representation at the United Nations?
ing to find the money to pay for the training people we will need; the travelling, equipm'ent, Service are we going to find the money?

And what about th'e cost of defence under In­ Are we going to be unique dependence?

among nations, naked and defencel'ess the south of our country, another country are coming in and is being don'e about it?

nothing We have on the west of us a country this country to be defenceless, some sort of defence?

costs $5 million; at least as much or more.


Where are we going to get the money for them all?

in that we will stand when already people from moved an Amend­ shou:td be held the will of the people on of 'Independence here, on this Motion the leader Force (Mr. d'Aguiar) ment that a referendum to ascertain the question cannot move such an Amendment because House.

However, to a precedent history.


tutional was held to determine Constitution Georgetown for the amendment; Since "Independence amendment to our present ment Constitution, would hav� historical in going to of "Independence \Vill on the question Now."

Why are the Government and the People's Progressive to do this?

In the prayer of th'ese the opening some lines from Tagore which read: self-govern­ the Government precedent should be amended.
In electors alone 1,005 I should like to point in this country's Party not prepared that is read at 96 voted against.

Now" means an that we will need at home?

Where In 1914 a referendum I have no seconder or are we going to have which is claiming the expanded Civil to it.

Are we going a regiment effective Sessions A fighter belongs that a part of whether behind it consti­ the then there are in this plane Now'.
I voted in " ... where the mind is without fear and the head is held high, and where words come from the depth of truth."

It is for all these reasons that I am opposing this Motion.

Firstly, that the Government is going back on an agre'e­ ment which it signed - that there should Let us go to the people and ask for the words that will come forth from the depths of truth.

the people to asoertain their 31 Independence For 9TH NOVE.M BER.
1961 British Gn:ana 32 and financial about an Independence inde'�d on the Government or the to sort General and Social right before from the Nor can l g M1s!

'i Janlim.

I is obviously o n the subject Nunes.

I should ar1 which Where 1 disagree ..... and many lessons peopk of this country right.
Thi�r:c Election, bm l 'v\'('Uld I do not shart the anxietiet Senator Tasker: I welcome this about this continued make Indepen­ is What I do believe ask for Inde­ which \1/e all know is there for is quite emptiness comes wit h penury or with begging for aid; it is, in fact, almost a form of pros- with her, hmi.­ 1itution.

eveL is that I do not b�lieve that the hard facts - and God knows they are hard enough - of our economic.

of themselves position dence impossible.


that tho"'c hard facts put a very heavy re­ sponsibility and the the facts in the out those probJems, look face, and get the prioritf�s anyone goes to London to pemk:nce, t he asking.

of Education Senator ion, thai it secins to me Motion and of my hon colleague, do not share h1.�r ink'rpr\·tation Report of the Lon­ paragraph Conference which has don Constitutional been dealt with hy both herself and the hon.
Minister Devclopnrcnt, say in explanat that th� w ording of the Motion before the Senate is 1�ntirely spirit within the of et �nthu­ that paragraph.

demand for a siastic of lmkp1��n­ referendum dence.

I airrce that one can draw manv from the conclusions have recent that one thing which was abun­ thought dantly clear, peated occasions of both the People's sp:)kesmen sive Partv and the People's , · was that thcv b()th intended to Corn�ress.
at the earliest purs.1.1c possibl doubt whatever about u .. il ing had Elections two Partie:;; with these over 80 pi:r cent.

of the votes cast, it would be pointfoss refercndun1 In other words, l fed tlrnt it i's entirely to a:)�,::m,.

:., reasonable Elections very rcc'cnt the principle of Independence played in the elections.

the Gm1rrnrnent th,:t of the day has in fact a mandate now to en­ deavour as it can.
that as an individ­ th:1L hav­ and would be most unfortunate Majesty's Independence, as they wry wclJ may be, taking a re­ attention to sponsible probi•�ms any delegation before would be very sorry, in the light of Her and it ,;ccm-; tP m(: Majestis so very recently, of policy h:,vin':.!

Independence, that the United Kingdom ing t o hold back Independenc Guiana because tain areas in which we for Independence.
I say, therefore, I make this point because I think it if, say, Her Government, i n negoti ations on view.

of drawing which should IX'.

solved here full Indcp�nde�ce e moment.

I have been in no and was made clear on re­ by leaders Government's and principle in the Jight of those and of the part that o n the issue of Independence.

Progres· National to achieve Independence as soon nmv to go back to a Guiana today is to recog­ that the most urgent obtained elector.
and other it was later clear statement on this issue of to have it suggested was endeavour•­ e for British (X>inting out cer­ were unprepared were put in the position, goes.

I personally On th\� other hand, I think the hon.

drawn atten­ Miss Jardim, has very important issues and must be be considered before Independence-can become Senator, tion to certain which must soived a reality.

money, and made the considerable to supp.ort She referred to the question considerable sums that are required country.
She of play of an independent resPonsibilities will bring.

They are though the financial need in British nize the burdens and the that Independence not only financial, burden will b� heavy.

Senator some of them.

Defence has referred to obviously could be a major issue, ana needs an army, a navy or an air ford:.

2.45 p.m, Jardim if Gui­ J would have thought that she of the sort: but then, it nteded nothing depends by the Gov- on an appreciation 33 Independence For 9TH OYEMB R, 1961 British Gu.
:ana 4 of Guiana when fully independent.

of this is going to b of the presence, so to speak, ernment of what will be the position British After all, one result the removal of th'e United Kingdom force , which will no longer be here and even if you like a frigate put that at something called at Troubridge, or a company of soldters a field, Atkinson symbol of rather more substantial re­ sources it is, nonetheless, in reserve.

availabile a Li­ education?


should we not start to primary and Certainly, would h'elp us; also, a would help us in the long run, of our Independence, by paying more attention secondary beral Arts College University but can we afford to do this as a priority?

Are we making the maximum use and the most economical facilities available ther afield?

Are we recognizing the fact that, by virtue ciently graphical circumstances remote and tend, therefore, little of geo­ we are somewhat us\:!
of the educational in the �egion and fur­ suffi­ inbred and parochial-minded?

to become a lmake this point because, were any between of British Are we prepared that that will en­ the defence and of Guiana as an to hav1c a desire country.

the burdens to be a dis­ us, there must obviously of our neighbours attack tinction Guiana as at present independent to shoulder tail?

But defence, important, problem.

veloped considerable do not think Guiana would approach in the same way.

I hope not.
I hope not.

I think that we, as a peopl'e, mature and intel1igent But what about the other problems?

after all, is only one but still one aspect of the it has de­ In som'e countries value.

I prestige are very much more in these matters.

it Senator Jardim cited tl1'c problem of Here, again, prestige representation.

plays a large part.

What are the priori­ ties?

Hav'e we got them right?


Are at the present moment, we planning, for to the use of our resources, ext'ent the fullest r•esources of our human and natural for the maximum development of this coun­ try, in the short term as well as in the long t'erm?

- for the deployment as a nation, In the field of education, several have been made by Ministers on the possi­ or University comments of the Government recently bilities of a University, lege, or a Lib'cral Guiana.

Much to be desired.
Much to be desired.

But have we got the to be desired.

priorities ahead to the right?

Looking formativ'e and the most important Arts College Col­ for British Greatly years I think one of the great advantage College numbers in Trinidad for instance for increasing abroad and mix It produdes a cross-fertili­ of ideas and experience which can One of the th'e University of the West Indies in J a­ provides, - whether maica or in the faculties - is the opportunity of Guianese to travel with others.
zation only benefit this country.

of course, is that not all come problems, back.

Too many of thfe best young Not Guianese only those or activities, other intellectual but skilled craftsmen jump­ who, even today, ing on aircraft the curtain go abroad and stay who go to pursue studies to go to the U.K. before comes down on migration.

abroad.
abroad.

are still Some, of course, are going in order to equip th'emselves more fully in their chosen trade or profession, and then re­ turn to practise that trade or profession Guiana.

One of the most en­ in British couraging days I have 'ever spent in my life was just under a year ago, when I spent New Year's day in London with a young Guianese master craftsman try.

And he was quite clear about what he was doing in the United Kingdom.
was going to become a first class car­ penter, so that when could open his own business the work which he knew was being shab- in the fifeld of carpen­ who wants to be a he came back he and do well He 35 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, l 961 British Guiana 36 [SENATOR TASKER) bily done now.

I hope and will be a success.

are al1 too few.

he �eep�; it up But these case,: more, this We a.re seeing, more and away - this feeling too much.
that Guiana has the outside on th'c-really by the Premier and but I think it i·, true; to offer, fair, drift too little lt i� not wholly and that is why I endorse wholeh'eartedly the views expressed other Minister� for national unitv and a national approach.

ing to do is to suggest most constructive can do today 10b - is to give a ckar.

positive �mequivocal lead in the planning priorities aud of for Independence.
that one of the jobs that Government --the most constructive And all that I am endeavour-­ vital need resources.

Secondly, what are of the country?

the natural re­ Here, as we know poor in Guiana is not It is going Do w4e fully sources only too well, we are relatively our natural an easy country to develop.

to be an uphill battle.

recognize accept the bur<lcns this will entail in an indt:pendent Guiana?
this, and are we prepared to that and sacrifices Thirdly, the country wil l depend ess and imagi­ displayed I have been very glad to on the resourcefuln repeating business by all in commerce l lifeblood largely nativeness and industry the commercia of the country.

hear what th'c hon.

Minister afternoon, attitude towards private lieve devoutly contribute British Guiana.

T think it would be do it any other way.

We crazy to try to and allies.

need more friends We want more capjtaJ.


not Jess; and Heaven knows there is 'pleoty said this his Government's in general I be­ can that private enterprise i n particular.

enormously enterprise and We have heard a great d'eal of talk.

resourcefulness after aJL Finally My concern of scope for all.

'tmd fully organiz The Government has brought must 1 I would say a country that Independence is coming is not to hold t he burdens and responsibilities The Governn1'1:·nt of thjs I believe very rapidly.
it back but to trv to 1�nsurc that we are fu]]y c�mpetent ed to of accept it.

This.

it seems to H when we achieve depend on the tssential me, must be the main of responsibility and productivity Government.

in the commonly-accepted is mandated to run the affairs productivity country.

the man in the workshop.

thi-.

Motion.

forward th'� field; but also on the productivity considerable support all areas and can be expected field of public ad;ninistration.

this is not enough.
this is not enough.

Tn this country we need for an 'ex­ Jnrdim referred to the are, all of us, too easy-going panded Public Service as one of the thinking: added burdens of lndcpendence.

She is happier right.

I t is not only a n expanded planning Service.

in the 1ast analysis, any country, more economical tion, must depend primarily needed.

things.

and I, for one.

would be much of dear After aH.

any na­ on fom main \vfoch in the oth1er House to gain it here.
But if I saw positive an d of clear priorities.

it is a,!so a mor1::: efficient and Service of its J:lcop.le -not only of th� labourer, and not least in the of society, with wishful the artisan.

has g:1incd the factory evidence sense of the Senator Public or of Public which is 3.00 p.m. Firstly, Peadership.

leadership imagination of the people?

on the quality of its political Does it have the political that can win and of the majority and support retain the Arc we prepared to recognize these hard facts?
A.re \ve prepared to pay th� price the bk1nd �1nd sweat and tear�•-­ of this uphill no doubt I have about t he answer, Personally, whatcv'er battle?

be- to the future of For it is.


But I to be independent; Guiana 38 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British terms, now to say in unequivocal 31 Independence cause if the answer were any other than yes, then this Motion would be empty words, and I do not beli'eve to seize this oppor­ urge the Government tunity in very clear terms, pr'ecisely what the planning and the priorities be for our ,economic and social ment.

Let us sp'ell it out and let the people know the truth.
Let the people realize what it is going to cost in effort, and how much worth-while be.

not been educated they hav'e not bad the opportunity think about the burden of Independence and the difficulties ing alone.

Are we strong enough to stand on our own legs and be really in­ Will Independence dependent in 1962 bring any benefit to the people of Guiana?

Independe power to the Government, not provide ment.
We should endeavour wealthy and prove by example Mr. President, we are ready to undertake sibilities.

nce gives but it ddes unemploy­ to become and strong by our own sweat, work or relieve that and precept Political and dangers heavy respon­ of others?

develop­ it is going to are going to of stand­ to Senator bond of hu­ was made depend­ Too-Chung: is the strongest dependence man society; mankind ent on each other.

Every one of us can­ Som'e of not be equal or independent.
us must rule and teach, must and others learn and obey.

We shall always have with us the strong and the weak, the young and the old, the ambitious and the lazy.

But colonialism is finished.

their Inde­ Other Guianese patriot for this country.

Every true countries have been granted pendence and we must be, so to speak, in the fashion.

wishes Independence principle lieve that it is the declared Majesty's pendence our own affairs other country.
has been accepted, and we be­ policy of Her to grant us Inde­ Government so that we can have control of and be subordinate to no The economic expan­ work.

Having of Independence, that the transitional The country needs sion, and we are begging for help to carry out deveilopment agreed on the principle it is important period should not be too brief.

just warn the Government carefully blems before us and plan intelligently and purposefully.
I would that we must and intelligently weigh the pro­ Senator Persaud: Mr. President, I because of four ence or free­ Firstly, out the best in man; slavery the, Motion' independ rise to support reasons.

dom brings the wors1e he is capable freedom promotes slavery l'hirdly, freedom as subjection cause freedom :ind character, to it.

opposite and then destroys ensures imperils it.

where­ security, it.

Fourthly, be­ a man's mind does the develops whereas of.
Secondly, human progress; slavery debases the reins, be the gteatest to relinquish Independence will event in our history, and, when Her it is Majesty's considers that Government I shall practicable be as happy as any other supporter of this us.

A youth looks Motion which is before forward a man and may be able to tell his father: "I shall do as I please."

chest and experienc'es of power and freedom.


He puffs his feeling a wonderful to the day when he will become , With Independence we shall cer­ determine tainly what is our destiny?

our own destiny.

The people have But So, Mr. President, it is the duty of Guiana to make it mankind in British a happy place that we may live in unity.

i As usual the motto of the colonist and rule.

It is happening to divide in moment.

British and to infiltrate Infiltrators div�de us that they may rule for a longer penod.
We were born at a splendid most envious that will come after us wilf envy us for Guiana at the present are trying and time, and the generations Senator Persaud: the Deeds Registry shares are being allocated.

1 quote: to show to whom the From extracts from 39 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Gu.ana 40 [SENATOR PERSAUD] The President: From what?
the colonists have tried shares Margaret P. S. d'Aguiar 114,392 Brothers, Ltd. D'Aguiar 60,000 Kathleen d'Agujar 10,000 Philomine d'A&uiar M.d'Aguiar lsabeJla V.d'Aguiar M. d'Aguiar 2,000 1,000 1.000 1,000 1,000 d'A�uiar after freedom.

informati and they are fighting for such what we are going to do.

Ours is the age of struggle-struggle The of the world want to live a dig­ peoples nified life, now­ a life.

No one can say that people adays cannot govern themselves.

That has been reduced to a myth.


statement I will give you a little on about the C olonies and what has been happen­ ing to them.

After five hundred ru1c in places Guiana, for 289 years.

to prove that they ai;� making life happy for them.

But go and examine those places and you will find mis�ry, ness, forceful ignor­ of the farmers.

ploitation ance.

and yet they want us to believe that they are helping them.

War has like Angola, and even the territory away of lands, ex­ famine.
years of Portuguese of Jamaica No.

of land and taking as exploi­ lawless­ man of this age No.

2 he· gets Independence.

He monopolize the They have a right, been declared on colonial­ Ei�t d'Aguiars busmess.

ters, to be against contracts.

On Contract made several I he bought a large portion soJd part of it to the brewery for $40,000.

On Contract $�,400 per annum as the Managing ism and no free-thinking Director should appear in any audknce Nos.

5 and 6 the sum of 36 cents is paid m�'.


He should "I am for colonialis to d'Aguiar Brothers, Ltd. a:;ide as a crook of the highest lon of beer soJd.

In 1958 thev· sold For the past 50 years in the Belgian about 900,000 gallons territories colonial $325,000.

Jcctcd population feels that wr should cause of :starvation and allow him Yet they want to prove to of a century.

, Those are the people who are afraid u s that tl1ey are helping them.

They Yet he asks the hon.

Premier freedom.


may put up to quote from Mr. GhandL I would like airfields, h im to hear this quotation from Mr. ___ tation C,handi: the nation's wealth.

When the hon.

Premier has been reduced.

Why?

Be­ and disease for and say be set or<lcr.

a few schools but that is merely for exploi­ them to carry away of beer a�d col­ This is a man who and in tf:ie Congo the live the same Hf e and to enable to exploit on every gal­ or bui]d a few the people.

halt of of this firm.


On Contracts was making in the Legislative by asking was trying Assembly.

his right the Premier his points the hon.

Member for Georgetown­ c�ntral fo preserve to exploit others to quote from Ghandi and so on.

Suc:h persons should be exposed.

Member for Georgetown-Central a company 1 ic.

Now 89 per cent.

of the shareholder\ own 33.3 per cent.

of the shares, l 0.1 percent.

36 percent.


monopolize -- quote, '•You will not be deceived bv the argument that India must not specious be made sober by compulsion and that those who wish to drink must have facilities does not cat::r for the vices of the people.

houses facilities propensity he more damnable r1erha.ps the parent country in abolishing 'ff I was appointed f(.1r all fndia.

the first \vould all the liquor shops.'!"


or license We <lo Pot provide to indulge their I hold drink to than thievin� and rros:itn1 ion.

Is it not often of both?

I ask you 10 join the and own The d'Aguiars Mav l for one hom thing 1 would d0 compensation provided for them.

The State We do not regulate of the shares, the whole situution.

The hon.

formed to the pub- of ill-fame.

for thieves of the shareholders the liquor shop�.

be to close without Mr. President and offered shares for thieving.
dictator 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Guiana 42 For 4i Independence 3.15 p.m.

I would like him to hea_r that.

He claims to be a true Christian, and I would like to quote from the Holy Bible, from Habakkuk.

self-government, only 7 % of the 1,700,000 limited island's people have an income of more than $840 a year.

The other 93 % exist on a bare subsistence level, many of them virtually economy, miserable of wrecked on banana leaves in o� in the hulks sleeping hillside cars in city junkyards."
shanties outside the money Senator Jardim: To a point of Mr. Speaker.

Would you please whether this is in line with 31(3) of the Standing Orders?

order, give a ruling Article Clause (3) reads: This is 289 years of British rule maica.

The same thing is actually pening here, and many people wh'en approached say "We have no money."

in Ja­ ha_E­ "Every Senator shall confine his ob­ to the subject under considera­ ervations tion .... " The President: to proceed.
sp'eaker I will allow the Senator Persaud: The truth hurts.

has only three Chapters-the Habakkuk first Chapter Chapter Chapter second Chapter, has 17 verses, the second and the third has 20 vers'es, has 19 verses.

This is in the verse 15: his neigh­ "Woe unto him that giveth to him, bour drink, that puttest and makest him drunken aJso, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!"
thy bottle country today in this have the man's pocket and to be­ We are going to de­ These gentl'emen they know how to pull money out That is what is happening country.

brains; of the ordinary come millionaires.

In this in­ clare war on such things.

dependent which we have in mind it will not be that some people until night and can­ work from morning not make ends meet, while others sit in a chair reading collect newspapers and so much money at month-end can hardly spend it.
I am not against the individuals; the system, and we are going to change the system.

Jamaica.

In my remarks May I quote also what is happening in Jamaica?

of August 4, 1961, page 18: This is from Time magazine I mentioned I am against that they will ''Jamaica suffers from too classically wealth and too many people.

15 years of little 289 year:5 or British rule and After figures) them.''

France sp'cnt I will give in a nutshell, from past how much money has been spent the 19th century populations.
During 52 years they say "We want peace, (American civilian history, in war and lives.

During the 17th cen­ tury France spent 64 years at war.

If you ask tll'em why they keep p�ople in these colonies and we want to educate the 18th century she at war, and during list spent 32 years at war.

War casualty numbers 10,469,710, excluding 1914-1918 peopre were involved.

cfaimed H casualty they say were 22,960,000; ded 34,400,000.

Nations United States 455,000.


State, that the "Communist about 2,000,000 tained the J 0,000,000 out of every 3 died."

war about 1,700,000,000 War casualty list World War Total dead armies have sus­ and of casu�lties, people of North Korea 1 37,508,686 victims.

list-44,835,196.

Korean war - United August 7, 1953 - Mr. John Foster Dulles, declared The lat'e U.S. Secretary list was casualty and allies number woun­ Report, In the of The 19 years of the Napoleonic war Up to 1914 spent life.
World War I cost cost U.S. $15,000,000,000.

there was at least $40,000,000,000 to destroy $337,980,579,667.

there was still War I debts unpaid.

War II ran into than U.S. $1,160,991,463,984.

Korean War cost the United States wards of $20,000,000,000 $15,000,000,000 The cost of Wodd more big figures, The up­ months (seven On Juiy 1, 1946, of World terribly 43 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British GtNOlUJ44 (SEl'- ,\ roR PERSAUD] nded).

These billions l:Ydorc the war e wer1� strictly itself.
'fherc colonies, spent to destroy the direct cost in Korea is no money to develop yet so much mom�y is being liV'cs.

the Indonesia, Iraq, Yemen, Nepal, 1 Afghanistan, the Guiean Republic Arab Republic Burma, Ceylon, Ethiopia, s are hel]}'cd several It is not our intention any strings.

of any country in the world.

a satellite W c want to be fre'e and to think as free people.

other countrie to b('.


an d without Let us examine how that money with trucks The money spent on The cost of aircraft amrmmi­ the world with fully e,quip1;x·d the could have been spent.

The price of on.t heavy bomber could have built a in more than thirty modern brick school in destroyed cities.

Korean the second World War and the enough to wars was and lndo-Chinesc built hospitals have easiiy for any emergency throughout world.

The money spent on tion c.ot1ld have supplied modern highways.
tanks could have equipped everywhere and tractors till the soil.

The millions of people hmwrv for wheat and rice could haw beet; f cd at the cost of the fighter junked The cost of a sint.

!k destrover could have built homes to -· house at Jcast R,OOG pconlc.

housed and slums cJcat'cd of ships sunk in battle.

3,?.66 years of recorded have lx:en 3,134 years of war and only 232 ,t�ars of so-ca1Jcd p say "We have no money to develop colonies�,.

ones cou]d have for the price farm'crs to or dcstrnyed eace.
Y t::t they the last wars.

the past Homeless history during planes During been the there Many lies have been told about th(.

; Great men, went there Soviet Union.

and saw they were all lies.

The hon.

Member for Georgetown Central (Mr. of herring with his red d'Aguiar).

"quote Nehru, quote Gandhi'', would not like to hear a quotation He would hate it.

This book, "Glimpses of World History Pandit letter .. ---- Nehru--- Jawaharlal and its author is on page 232. from Nehru.
71, says: To call a starvin� economic freedom, remained.

·There could be no real freedon­ and so Jong without as povertv man free is but to mock him.

So the nex�t step was the and that fight over the world.

Only economic it he saiJ that been won hy the people generallv.

that is Russia.

or rather the Soviet Onion.''

is being waged todav all .in one country can freedom has and riJ?

;ht for economic freedom., I think tttc time b ripe now and.
said, we will he West first and will be asking as the Premier rightly going to the for money.

We wish, for the benefit of the West that they pour some of that money into this little colony of just half a million people to make then1 happy, and I agree that should they say "No·'.

we have to seek money dscwherc.

There an.� other places� there can be no ques­ tion about that.

I have a little book here entitled ''How 'l11e Sovi'et Helps Economically Countries�·.
rupees, and countries Union Under-developed one billion like the India received United without ago those people won and they arc out pre­ to help the whole world political if the West should refuse this country, Twenty odd y�:ars economic freedom.

sently strings, danger, �,evelop J-·ar East, or to the asking for hcJp.

It is clenrlv �tated this little Friends and economic.
I see no to in our going to the there, and countrks in Unior1-Faithful of the Pcopks of the East" -- book, ··sov�t The President: Who are the pub-­ jjshcrs?

Senato1· Persaud: It was ?rinted t.h� �over Jrc photo Ill Nc\l.

Delhi On ;;raphs of Mr. t'.\�hru, .of lndia, the President of India and Khrushchev.

the Prime Mini�trr Mr. 45 Independence For 9TH NOVBM:SERJ 1961 British Guiana 46 The President: You ·say i\t was in New Delhi.

iVho are the published publishers?

Senator Booklets.
Senator Booklets.

Mr. Khrushchev Persaud: Soviet Land These are a few words by on the cover: J ardim for op­ given by Senator from the people, reasons posing this Motion.

Two points raised were that we do not have by the Senator and thait she a mandate and her Party are very uncertain of the of Inde\pendence.

These consequences two fantastic reasons for are, indeed, opposing where in the won1d.
freedom for any people any­ of enemies "Our 5ympathies, the sympathies people, have always been and for their independence, who fight and defend their abhorr Our p ople naturally We shall always be with the Soviet will always be with the peoples who battle their country's freedom.

colonialism.

the peoples selve from colonial always be with the peoples who battle indepen­ to consolidate indepen­ dence and to achieve dence."

who have not yet freed thern­ their political economic tyranny.
We shall conceded, race, On the other hand, we have Sena­ who has, indeed, tor Tasker, after this long but unsuccessful that freedom should not be denied the Guianese much surprised indeed, conceded from what he has said he has given us a clear indication Guiana indeed spells people.

I am very, very that Senator this principle; that the future of Tasker has, w'ell.

and So, before taking my seat, I only wish and pray that the Western countries do coun­ all that can be done.
We are a little giant, try here with big land, a sleeping British Guiana, Send money to allow us to develop the land and let the people live and harmony.

in peace with ail.I the resources.

3.30 !

).m.

in the May the light of reason; may fair- dawn to comradeship episodes Guiana.

Long live 1play and lasting dose these unsavoury of British history the militant Long live the peaceful Guiana.

Long live the People's Party and the gressive leader Dr. Cheddi Jagan.

Guiana.
Guiana.

of British Pro­ founder and Party, Progressive people of British of the People's !people it fully; We have, undoubtedly, made it - in occasions dlearly, in what our with Indepen­ very clear on several 1953, 1957 and 1961.

We have never kept our views or any of our plans secret.

In 1953, we stated, of the P.P.P., :the manifesto views were in connection dence for Guiana.

In 1957, we em­ phasized even clearer.

clear, and what are our !plans ment of the country.
Senator ref erred to the programme economy which we have set out in our and this should be a clear in­ manifesto, dication to set British prosperity.

and in 1961, it w0s We have made it also what the economic position will be for the develop.

Nune!.

of mixed of how the Go;yernment Guiana on the real road to intends Senator Khan: Mr. President, in relation it for me to is indeed a very great privilege to this most say something measure which is before us important history will have today.
Undoubtedly, that it is the P .P .P.

which it recorded has evide·ntly championed freedom, Guianese the cause of here.

This afternoon, however, one of which I was ex­ a sur­ but the other, although one.

On the two surprises, pecting, prise, one ban� we have heard some fantastic it was a pleasant I have had a feeling It is, indeed, fitting for me to say that the time has come when we, in and develop should realize Guiana, for our own conscious national country.
We should not wish to be tied, any longer, the Colonial we be subjected ments, detractions are facing solve the problems to these embarrass� and economic ills we We want to in the coo.ntry, and Office.

For how long will to the apron strings of in our country?

ion of an a2:recmcnt entered 47 Independence For 9nr NOVEMBER.

1961 British Gr.Nana 48 [SENATOR KHAN] 'Tilis Motion, under difficulty Guiana jg made free.

and we arc looking it is clear we wilil never be able to do thb unless British politically.
fitting; see.

in the face of the manv bold ments which Colonial become free on the same date as js set for the freedom Federation.

I find myself only Senator in opposition i, Senator Jardirn: that I should be _gracious prudence counsel� flayed wh�reY,.

:r tr�1 ro walk bdween chivalry dencc and not Jean too heavily si(h.·.

therefore, is forward to state­ o.nd chivalry to the: h1dv.
but that reactiun m�-.t bt an: being made by the of the.� West fndies Office, that British 3.40 p.m. Guiana will because the to this Motion and pru-­ on either it shows itself.

l shal!

enjoins S1.

:nator J ardim tdb us that she is on of state thing, and _just Senator J ardim re-• of the P.P.P to assure, principally, to this Motion, for the members is the question the last" elections their re�pective division.
to this and said that this was re­ She said that th� Govcrn­ no mandate from the from our present She said that the Motion was a con•· ff we look around the \vorld.

what do we see?

AU over, everybody is cry­ ing out for freedom; fancy, in this twentieth centurv.

we have sensible Guianese just trying.

to debar freedom for their own people.

opposed four counts.

n!ent had received people to proceed to Independence.

timing of this travent into at the London '-' Conferen ce las vcar.
She \aid that she and thost­ for whom she sp�aks could not feel as­ sured of a cc\mfortable life in an in­ <lependen t Guiana.

Finnlly, she smo that Independen ce was a costly have the money to sup­ and we do not port it.

Those are the main arguments {ldduced, and.

i sh;ill endeavour to con­ fine myself to those arguments, though l will ncc,:1;,;;arilv in a few· minor poii1ts I ;tm say.

There is only one other aspect to which l would Jike to refer before tak­ ing my seat.
and that of racial ferrcd sponi;;ihle and P.N.C.

winnim� seats.

We have, undoubtecl1 v. ·had a dear indication of what !

on behalf were: and if it is necessary the P.P .. P. we can assure, and we have done everything everybod both inside and outside of the House.

that this oucstion of racial division wH!

so long as the P.P.P.

no longer re­ mains hea<l of the Government in the future.

We have stated.

quite clearly.


our position and what we intend to do; and we have said time and again that unless the two major races combine with the other sections of the com­ munity-join fo1,ces able to The indication which P.N.C.

in the Lower House is a good one for the future weH for the future of our country, ,vhether it is under internal self-govcrn­ meflt or fuJJy independent.

First of �:li--no to me that the pec:.


;Jlc no mandate for Independence from our peoplc arc Rip Van Winkles who have not vet awakened.

has pointed of the issues at the General As a matter of fact the Party which Senator ports her----1 poin,t--was.

electorate in winning horrors tl1at British have to face was the prospect of Inde­ pendence The P.P.P.

supported pendence, or which sup­ am not certain o n the at pains to threaten the there is very little behalf of the Government.
As Senator 'Tasker was one Election.

have to brine to underlinr wha�t It scem!­ who say there is make Guiana a happy :1lace.

Senator Hubbard: thut if the P.P.P.

succeeded out, I ndepcndence of Guiana.

It spells Mr. President. '

----we will not b J ardim supports Nevertheless, the Election for me to reply to on stand for Inde­ going to m:Jndate.

The P.N.C.

was given by the Guiana wouJd one of the 'exist in y, e under a P.P.P.

Government.

won the Election.


the P.P.P's and there was no illusion 49 Independence For 9TH NOVEMB_ER, 1961 British Guiana 50 the nee.

of Independ the minds of those who supported P.N.C.

on the question One knows that the P.N.C.

will, at another.

times, be one thing and then of Independence but on the question th� P.N.C.

has been consistent both at the Election and after the Election.

the argument think we can dismis·s no mandate as being groundl ss.
I o.f The second argument that the tim­ 1 would co,me be­ of an agreement is surprising.

that a citiz.en ens and argue a case for power which holds the on which time limits can be can mean is ing of this Motion is a contravention of the London agreement should not have imagined of a dependent country fore fellow-citiz the Metropolitan freedom of these people in its hands!

What if the timing of this Motion is in­ deed a contravention signed in London or signed anywhere else?
It is the right of any people to be free, and to demand freedom is not a question set.

All that agreement that the United Kingdom Government to have the •question may not desire our freedom opened before a certain date.

But, surely, be U.?

to us .to have the question pushed, pressed and independence for in our time - not in the struggled time of those who hold us in bonds.
I that argument, therefore it I will have feel that not only of sentimental the supporit people who like people, but of rational to put their faces to the sun and let the shadows dismiss in dismissing it must at all times of -our fall behind.

and I 0f .. To illus,trate my point I should like that happened and produced should have enshrined in which de­ the a Motion that the new Con ti­ in it a Bill which we are now working.
_ the Constitu Dr. Jagan to refer to some-thing CoffllJlission the Constitutional bated the Constitution report which forms the basis of the Con� stitution we were discussing \Vhile tio,n, the Leader of the P.P.P., proposed tution of Rights.

I would have thought that desir so eminently .. on such a proposal, able, there eould be no question of a debate Unfortunately, Commission por-tant Motion and could not be dis­ being given cussed o.f it.
3.50 p.m. at once without the Chairman that it was an im .. insisted notice of that and it wouid have been accepted, in this is in this I reflected for minorities, right; it is the firs,t of w'e have heard a great deal of freedom of rrunorities, and, after reflection.

I said to the came to a conclusion.


of the Commission: "Mr. Chairman you are perfectly Chairman, proposal; an important its kind that has ever been considered a Constitution-making body in these parts, and I agree that it should be held has had a chance to up until ev-eryone think it over."
I also said: "Sir, Committee talk about the rights is not a proposal of minorities it is a very far­ and in that respect becaus,e in this coun­ reaching try there has alwavs been freedom for Th'ere minorities-for certain for minorities, have always been rights and this is a for certain .

and the rights proposal in minorities should which now re_ide be made total - that ewrybody have the same freedom fear.
Jn that respect portant; s,houlp to walk without I said "It is imr but this ,proposal the freedom of minorities, minor.ities, minorities.

that the freedoms to safeguard departure, let us leave it."

or the rights about At the next meeting what happened?
A Mero ber came forward with a pr,o .. posal that the Motion should be ruled ultra vires as being outside the powers of the Then there is the question They are fearful J ardim and those may not be as bright that, probably, of Senator confidence for whom she speaks.

Guiana, that.

in a free and Independent as today.


tomorrow for Senator 1 · will concede Jardim and those for whom she speaks, in an Independent tomorrow as today -- cer­ wel1 not be as bright tainly not as gloriously yesterday which we have buried for ever.

bright as the Guiana may 51 Independence For 9n1 NOVEMBER, 1961 British Guiona 52 an d cents, into into dollars than being a barrier to J ndepcn­ or into almost any inter­ of your trauslated pounds sterling national currency -the effect freedom.
So th.at the lack of mc;ncy, rather dence becomes the reverse have gained your Independence, be­ cause when you are independent people will help you, because you stand on your own.

When you are a colony you are somebody else's must look after you they do not intend t o use.

out of resources charge, and they once you So that is a little contradiction.

If then vou wiH of that Party.

Therefore, Assembly Committe�.


The that Mot.i,Jn not i n the least sur­ that Senator fardim should come and suggest, !SENATOR HUBBARD!

of the Constitutional is a Member who proposed Partv.

rncmher of Senator He .Jardim's was elected on and a United Force ticke:t as now sits in the Legislative a spokesman it is not surprising, prising, forward '" people she speaks for that she and the frar that in an independent tomorrow thev mav not have as happv a life as they now have.
or as they., haw had I concede that that fear is yesterday.

justified.

and walk among the ]owly is a great condescensio when it is merely it is insupportable of ]ife.

as she has done, For the but if you party.

ppens now.

things; discussed You do not get it be­ mighty to descend n indeed.
I t is tokrable a condescension, when it is a condition them, but, of course, of the community, you will ap­ v.ou have felt colonialism understand these preciate remote from the stream of �ife have lived Df a atmosphere and in the rarefied narrow section.

then not appreciat it is perfectly e these things.

Indepen­ dence only means that you have to work for yourselves.

cause vou were bom to it, or because you can go <1nd have it little cocktaia.
of thing that ha clear you do The granting of at u kind That is not the Then Senator not sa;.

:iport Jardim said that we because Independence money.

This is, of course.

had as a colony, very comprehensively.

So that really what we have a separate of t he realities the sterling balance had as a Government which the should we have no the old story of the hen and the egg.

She mentioned which the Indian celony and the reserves Ghana Govrmment and which do not exist now.
It Jardim has not been mav be that Senator because her lack of confi­ a �oloniaJ.

that she has suggests dence in tomorrow lived in unaware colonials.

and our colonial money.

What our colonial done is to take away what we had not to give.

That is why we want our Indepc;dence.

world and is quite of our life as We have not had money, ans�er is answered very shortly and, I thmk, there have been questions which I think 1 would do well to say a few words.
One of the questions was the question Tasker spoke at some length tion of defence.

tory t?day is quite a different what 1t was even 15 years ago.

The world today is seemingly Iy than it has ever been in its historv: seemingly, ances.

opportunities ances were frozen.

division were made before those balances could be freed.
impositions are being we are made upon us also, but when free we make decisions not for any power standing That is the first advantage advantage and it is an ary periods in were as firm and as strong history has it" been the case at no time in that war, as an instrument of policy, must be ruled out.
In that particular bal­ was freed those bal­ Certain impositions I say, because there arc mot·e for making play of that Of course we have had revolution­ the past when divisions state has not given u s state has Ghana and India had sterling However, on raised than had existed for ourselves; previously.

When India more divided of freedom, °which can be Certain Defence as now, but thing from raised I think above us.

on the ques­ to poditic.aJ­ of a smaJI terri­ of defence.
Senator 53 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Guiana 54 today on a scale anything such super weapons of this real world in which at anyone else.

And so in the has reached than he ever a higher state of He has did before.

mankind matur.iity now made himself that he cannot fire with safety more deadly than a toy pistol that is p.ointed circumstances for a of defence we live, the question small people burden i:s not the intolerable that it used to be.
It was not many years ago, for instance, that Egypt lost every battle though we shall require forces ccrtai111ly ments which independent traditionally history.

doJlars psychological problems it is not insurmountable nor is it in­ supportable.

some armed Guiana, we will not need the massive arm-a­ have nations their throughout is a problem.

Defence It is a It is a and cents problem.

problem; in an independent but, like all the required and won her war.
Similarly, al­ that we face in this country, of al1 sorts get from year to year in different the world co-operates which would not have seemed possible before World War II.

Scientists, educa­ tors and technicians together the questions, places.
They examine which to people like ourselves - the the struggling poor people; the people; undeveloped of people - are questions ljfe and death, - those who can afford it - to the Just solution in as we are reaching to arms is not a a period when resort questions, international means of settling so we are reaching in our independence a period when discussion and the ex­ change of information on a is practised very wide scale for the benefit of peoples all over the world.

of thos•e many problems.


our independence and they give, generously The Soviet Union and the United The President: Befiore you pass which you propose on to the next point, to make, I think this is the time at which we should adjourn will now rise for half an hour.

for tea.

The Sena,te Sitting uspended from 4.03 p.m. to 4.30 v.m.
4.30 p.m. On the resumption -- Hubbard: Mr. President, was suspended, I was to the positive I had referred in a day Senator when the sitting moving from the negative side of our discussion.

to the fact that we are living which is very different existed, that context tion of our defence.

with other aspects aspects as an indd;,endent - of the position nation.
- the more positive we shall enjoy say, even 15 years ago, and in I had dealt with the ques­ I now wish to deal from that which scientists in In the de­ We find that of America to protect scourge of polio.

all over the world from the to end starvation.


es, super bombs, shells scale possible, from all over the world became deadlocked General Assembly with great and other issues, but, at the same ;time, we find cu­ scientists their own peoples States the United Nations on Berlin bjttemess Russian and American operating and peoples dreaded on the grandest and agriculturists g�t together veloped countri and tanks are the dreaded death.
In our little from the cold war, the dreaded of death are minute little little germs - and the inability duce enough to keep our people from starvart:ion.

is a place where, behind the terrible facade of armament'S sion, all mankind of time in trying which we want to do; that is to say, 10 lift the lowly and raise the general stan­ dard of living.
divi­ a great deal to do the very things back water, remote and political is spending '-- minute engines engines viruses to pro­ of The world today, therefore, As I said, the world is, politically, more utterly seemingly has ever been before; hand and outside divided than it Just a shor;t wMle ago, the Premier but, on the other the field of politics, and I visited in at the United Nations North America and stopped headquarters; 55 bulependence [SENATOR HUBBARD] For 9TH NOVEMBER, 196 l British Guiana 56 of pro­ private enterprise 20 or another such as ours.
That assistance and places to play its rote in the and help to the table with men from many private of this country.

We are, development of the fact that conscious nevertheless, we have been waiting for close on 1 �O enterprise to industrial­ years for are not prepared ize this country, and We 150 years to wait another for the _job to be done.

And we feel that public side of our independence.

tain this end.
tain this end.

the East, men from together with on;: objective objective---the and there we sat and held discussions �•round natiom---men from the West-working single viding technical countries is the positive The scale of the help will.

natura1ly, to an inde,,endent greater possibly be to than it can loped country country which is the an under-developed ward of one or other metropoJitan power.
The world position, is propitious our neighbours to fear them position which would have been unavailable an- long ago is xious to oome forward to i n that we need not fear as we would have had years ago.

The world in that the he)p now present, willing and under-devc• ,enterprise; the Government is propitious therefore, be employed to at­ capital should our aid.

be to increase Quite recently, the Demerara emoluments like to say that these re­ from ac­ Company, Electric enterprise.
It is now and I am glad to say un­ was able to carry out a com­ of wages and salaries at all anomaff ies where they correcting found that cash­ For instance, we $½ million, nearlv.

quired which was private public that under public management that dertaking plete review levels, existed.

in cash iers taking every mo�th were paid as little as $165 per month.

We have been able.
We have been able.

substan­ like that; tia11y, and I should visions were taken without the employees, and management account the needs of the public who are the own'ers, themselves.

have been able in that effect management all these disbursements we have spent Jess on management than was the case under private enterprise.

The secret prise has a way of creating which defeat this.
we undertaki� to savings very considerable on and having made and that the cmp!oyees were able to take into the needs of the undertakimz, enter­ expenses and the needs of the workers Notwithstanding of ex;:,enditurl!, is very simple.

account, ores.sure income tax.

Private in Voltaire's What are our prospects in the eco­ about which rt is not like HA man of 40 This is one field nomic field?

there is great anrnmcnt.


the argument Crowns" It is an argument which is full and "how do you charged, these developments to go about bringing which .

is the subject pass?"

of liveiy and the question debate all over the world.

is a question - an argument which is em:,ty.

as a colony.

We have had with us, since our in-­ which ;._ enterprise.

the system c�ption I known as private· commonly just a few days ago that our remarked of that sys­ with the working experience tem has not been a happy one.
I remark­ that we are standing upon ed, howeveL the edge of a new age and there is every that the methods indication today, are not the same as they were long private a�o.

We feetl that an enlightened playing a progressive enterprise, role, int(' (he needs of the community taking along with the needs of the Hccount capit2L owners of private important rote in our own development.

This Government is resolved to allow and the aims, can play an 4.45 p.m.
In an undertaking like that every­ organi­ abroad, so that the purchaser her� face to face with the thing is bought through a parent zation is never brought supplier who receives purchased.

thousands a commission That adds up to tens ot of dollars at the end of - it goes through a third party on everything hydro-electricity that there is oil 57 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Gu:ana 58 our emp1oyees adequately, out and have money sources for a base and our life.
We save something on the in ef­ binl.

So that efficiency - management - is at a higher level the year.

Having moved in and stop�ed that, and having put ourselves face to face with the suppliers, we are able to cut all these expenses to reco119ense fairly, and still management that undertaking ficiency ted before the Government a week.
I am resolved, and in I am su9ported whole­ to end our by my collleagues, perhaps, this resolve hearted!ly dependence on outside to power our industry shall pursue two fields: and oil.

I am advised in British Guiana.

Our problem is to find people to find that oil far us.

In the past, I am afraid, the people who have s,earched for oil in British Guiana were people who did not want to find it.

We will employ people who want to find the oil.


May I say, in all chivalry, Senator being one of the positive even so limited for private enterprise government jointly, advantages self­ than exis­ took over.

We feel that it is pos,sible to my as of a state as internal to advantage enterprise to employ friend in fields in the crea­ not which are for private enter­ is to go.
We feel als.o that it public capital tion of industry sufficiently attractive prise, or where private reluctant should be lpossible and Government, undertakings voids; but against in mind the fact that we have a small popufation.

and to set up manufacturing or heavy industries just to satisfy needs of a small number of people is a hazardous undertaking.
all these we must bear the We are less than 600,000, to capitalize and to fill our industrial Mr. President, I think that I have industries that she may take that We feel that it is first necessary of forest etc., and products, of the up the question for us to set out to secure markets for things like wood pulp, cellulose, plywood and manufactures products, aluminium then, perhaps, tie markets with the supply of trial equipment interest of the undertaking.
lines that we hope to pursue, sure we will succeed.

on both sides in the mainltenance That is one of the so that we will have an the indus­ and I am because in this land that the I wc�mad just like to ad­ Tasker correctly not to read a lesson, but to along the mad to I be that I can see already an irresist­ said enough, leave a few pointers progress.

mouish those of us who are here •.1nd others everywhere effort, which Senator saw as being necessary to take us for­ ward,.

will have to be forthcoming.


have no doubt that it will willingly rendered, our new status ible stimulus act maturely.

leaders are not as fal' forward as our people write themselves, eloquent lead.

I have no doubt that in British Guiana the rich volume of eloquent taphs to failing enriched leaders but time and history who fail to to leaders to think and that the in some instances, by those now being earned by who Tead but cannot learn.
leaders will be further of our people, It is my regret to our �people has orovided epitaphs epi­ You will readily understand that to support ,the costs of Inde­ our ability pendence will depend upon the extent to which we are able to expand OUT wealth right here in economy and create British Guiana.

We are fully aware of this, and om efforts are being directed in this field.
I, for instance, am fully of ithe fact that if anything conscious happened tomorro� outside ou� country which prevented everything 011 from reachmg he!e, m, would have to shut down Sena­ The President: Her Majesty's Honourable is, "That this House Secretary to fix a date during shall become fully in­ with.in the Commonwealth of I shall put the Motion to the tho,se who are in favour say tors.

the Question requests for the Colonies when this Country dependent Nations."
Senate, "Aye"; those who are against of State 1962 say "No".

59 Independence Por 9 fH NOVEMBER, l 961 ·1voes The Senute dirided: I. as io!lows: Noes Ayes 9, 1961, when the Second 14th .November, which were Reading read for the First time at the last meet­ ing, will be moved of the two Bilds, Jardim-l. Ayes Too-Chung Semitor Tasker Thomas Ramjattan Persaud �enator Senator Senator Senator Senator Senator Kh,111 :')enator Senator Senator Hubbard-•9.

Christia Nunes The President: declare the Motion carried.
ADJOURNMENT AND PENDING BUSINESS Hocrns OF SnnNG FoR NExT MEETfN<., The President: The Senate is ad- on that will be 3 p.m. to 5.30 r;,.m.

and, at journed to the 14th November, 1961. at 3 p.m.

The hours of sitting occasion if necessary, 7.30 p.m. Hon.

Members.

stand adjourned.

the Senate \Vill now we shall reassemble and continue until IO p.m.

Senator Hubbard: Mr. President, now move that the Senate be ad­ journed to three o'clock on Tuesday, 4.58 p.m. Senate adjourned accordingly at