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.THE PARLIAMENT ARY DEBATES OFFICIAL REPORT [VOLUME l] PROCEEDINGS FIRST LEGISLATURE AND DEBATES OF THE FIRST SESSION OF TIIE CONSTITUTED UNDER THE BRITISH GUIANA (CONSTITUTION) ORDER IN COUNCIL, 1961 .1 rd Sitting Thursday, 1967 9th November, SENATE The !lonnurable Senate met at 2 p.111.

Prm1ers [The President in the Chair] Pre,ent: Ap11ointed 47 (2) (a.I: under Art.

'cle His Honour the President, Senator Senator the Honourable the Honourable Senator Ashton Chase H.J.
M. Hubbard, Minister C. V. Nunes, Minister of Trade and Industry and Social of Education Development Senator Senator Senlcl,tor Senator Senator C. V. Christian M. Khan C. S. Persaud Christina H. Thomas Ramiattan Appointed Senator under Article Anne Jardim 47 (2) (b): under Article Appointed Senator Senator 47 (2) (c,1: O.B.E., A. G. Tasker, C. V. Too-Chung, Vice-President.

Mr.

I. Crum-Ewing-Clerk Mr. E. V. Viapree-Assistant of the Legislature Clerk of the Lepislature.
19 lndependeila For 9TH NOVl!.MBER, 1961 British Guiana 2G ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE -PRESIDENT and I am quite sure that there in volume, of this Globe, in the corners is no quarter of which these cries have not fallen.

H.E.
ACKNOWLEDGES SENATE'S THANKS FOR MESSAGE On March 31, 1960, some effective of the principle form was shown to these cries in the acceptance dence by Her Majesty's and the stat'cment mission, I should read says: which, with your per­ of .Indepen­ Government; The President: I have to inform that the ex­ the Governor of the Senate, of thanks of this Senate to His you, members pression Excellency he delivered ing of the Legislature, him; and His Excellency thank this Senate for its expression thanks to has replied to of of that message.
for the Message of the open­ was conveyed on the occasion in respect PUBLIC BUSINESS MOTION INDEPENDENCE GUIANA FOR BRITISH "Whereas it is the inherent right of al!
people to administer and to determine their own destinies; their own affairs And Whereas it is the declared policy of Her Majesty's in.dependence to their subject people; Government to grant And Whereas Her Majesty's the principle Govern­ of inde­ ment has accepted pendence for British Guiana; "Her ,Majesty' s Government accept that -po�riod is the' whichever should attain are introduced of independence On the assumption held under the new or upon it being decided for British that constitu­ as a result then if at any time than two years after the first both Houses of the British pass resolutions the principle Guiana.
tional changes of this Conference, not earlier General Election Constitution the West Indies Federation independence, shorter, Guiana Legislature asking Her Majesty's United Kingdom to grant independence to British ment will early thereafter Conference practicable Provided by the decision eration not be regarded considerin_g until it tive British had been in effect for not less than one year."

to consider to implement that the new situati any change in the then opera­ Guiana Constitution this request.
on caused that the West Indies Fed­ a s giving grounds for Her Mai.esty's in the Government call a further should attain when it would be Guiana, Govern­ independence would Be lt Resolved that this House Secretar y of State to fix a date during 1962 Her Majesty's Senator changes this statement If we should examine we would find that consti­ requests for the Colonies when this country shall become fully independent of Nations".

and 9ocial Development).


within the Commonwealth (The Minister of Education very carefully, tutional as a result w'ere introduced on precise, June 27, 1961.

The statement goes on: tion ancl -social Development): Mr. since the inauguration President, People's ago, this Party has fought .pendence permission, the aims of this Party: " ...
If at any time not earlier years after the first General Election held under the new Constitutiqn or upon it being decided tion should ever period is the shorter that the West attain independence, ... " Gniana.

With yom I s hould like to quote one ot have be'en introduced of this Conference.
To be Nunes (Minister Party about 12 years Progressive these changes of British Federa­ which­ for the Inde­ of Educa­ of the Indies than two "To pursue constantly the goal of self-determination dence for the people of British and national indepen­ Guiana;" This Party has not ceased in its struggles of this counhy.
Its cries have increased and its cries for independence word has First of all, the operativ'e and, as far as we know, was taken on June 16, 1961. been "decided" a decision at the London Constitutional which stated eration that the West Indies Fed­ on would attain Independence Conference 21 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Gt4iana 22 like to make a few statements the fears and outside emphasize clause "whichever be so.
then we will, period period which others on both in�ide of this House, may have.

I It may not the word "may''.

to allay word, in the context of this, And if we are to refer 31st May, 1962.

Again, I repeat that the operative is "d'ccided."

to the concluding period is the shorter", obviously, se'e that the shorter has been the nearly five-month which has just elapsed.
fore, quite in order for both Houses of to pass the British Resolutions Gov­ ernment British Independenc'e to Guiana Legislature Majesty's asking Her in the United Kingdom to grant It seems, there­ Guiana.

rights accepts Guiana, in British My Governm'ent the princi­ of Independence of Guiana.

My Commonwealth stands for the which hav'� been en­ the British My Government ple, for British witl1in Nations.
fundamental shrined in the Constitution which now gives effect to the present political situation ment also stands for a policy of active neutrality, aid from any source, but without Cuianese.
socialism, your permission from the Manifesto _gressrve tiun: My Government but it emphasizes also accepts - and with Party for the 1961 General I should like to quot'c the sovereignty of of the People's Pro­ limiting seeking Govern­ El'ec­ I have been informed that the Legislative passed its Resolution, Lower House-the -118� already this Motion now seeks to have this House-the Resolution.

S1cnate - pass the other To continue: Ass'embly and .
Her Majesty's Government will call a further Confer­ when it would be earl v thereafter e nce to consider practicable to implement this request".

J shall only emphasize the word "early".

There follows the provision: "There will continue to be room for Industrie private investors.

ised in a number of ways-privately, operatively, tion of these".
and by a combina­ s will be m·gan­ publicly co­ " ... that the new situation causecl should attain independence by the decision that the West Indies Fed­ eration would not be regarded considering tive British Guiana Constitution it had been in effect for not less than one year".

any change in the then opera­ as giving grounds for until stands to follow that while It, therefore, we accept socialism, mixed economy, indenendent there will be a even in the period of an Guiana.
Now, I should also like to refer to page 2 of the hon.

the Premier's to the Legislative I quote the Premier's Assembly; own words: and hert Report We all know that this Constitution came into e!Iect on June 27, 1961, the fixing of the date, which therefore, we have requested to be don'<!

in 1962, will fall even within the provisions this statement from 'ermnent.
Her Majesty's of Gov­ r think, which it is my privil­ is quite simple This Motion, ege to introduce, and non-contentious, and J think there is no 11ecd for me to say anymore but that whatever here is what this House is trying to comply with and will comply with.

l should, has been stated however, ''J believe ideally in the nationaliza­ means of pro· reserve This and exchange.

of a tion of all the important duction.

distribution wiJJ ensure a fairer distribution wealth than any other system.
country's things But I also have to recognise as they are.

While I as any our right, nation does.

to nationalize sovereiin1 we think should be whatever industry in the public interest nationalized we stated that we have no ilave explicitly of nationalizing intention sugar and bauxite These com­ compani_es.

panies today domi1rnte British c.leveloped".


our economy, but under­ Guiana is still largely the existing Mr. President, this Government also 23 Independence For 9nI NOVEMBER, ] 96 I [SENATOR NUNES] 2 j5 p.m. nation.

of a truly There are other points stands for the development Guianese which must be thought of when planning for an independent example, we have to country ·national receive Guiana.

For think of a name for this of ours, a national anth'em, tion as early as possible.
but these points will considera flag and a British Guiana 24 Thomas: Mr. President, Senator we are now Her Majesty's a Motion asking of State for the Colonies to fix for hon.

Members of the Senate, debating Seeretary a date for discussing British free Guiana.

We would like to have political which I believe this country prosperity.

and wi11 bring progress I will quote thus: lndep'cndence for a Guiana - Independence for am!
and economic Independence is a vital necessity "After World War II, Britain started to the then Colonial giving independence Territories, lon, Ghana and so on."

such as India, Pakistan, Cey­ Of the 35 elected Guiana's representative� 35 constituencies, 31 of British I be­ are in favour of Indep•endence.

lieve we can accept this as information true in that the P.P.P.
and the P.N.C., who are represent'ed 1::ers respectively, pendence �arlier recited statement, that this Motion is simple and non-con­ I therefore have pleasure tentious.

moving that -- by 20 and 11 mem- are in favour of Inde­ for British Guiana.

Government I find, as I said previously, b'cen said from the the P.P.P.

That being so, as it has already by the Minister inception of this movement, told the people that only by lndep'cnd­ ence we would be able to improve conditions.
British decided speaker Independ'ence Guiana, was long at the last Conference.

Our last that already.
has mentioned I have to say that, for of Education, Her Majesty's Having in "Whereas all people and to determine to administer their own affairs their own destinies; it is the inherent right ot And whereas it is the declared to grant in­ people; of Her Majesty's dependence to their subject Government policy And whereas mcnt has accepted pendence for British Her Majesty's the principle Govern of inde­ Guiana; Be it resolved that this House re­ quests Her Majesty's Secretary for the Colonies -when-this Courtlry -shall dependent Nations."
beeome fully--in­ of within the Commonwealth to fix a date during 1962 of State The President: The question before Secretar the House is, "That this House requests Her Majesty's Colonies this Country pendent Nations."

y of State for the to fix a dat� during 1962 when shall become fully inde­ within the Commonwealth of J tldieve that anything the House of full rights is in agreement Assembly has decided with the Majority Party in the Govern­ ment and also the P.N.C.
[ say that does there is nothing wrong if this S�nate the same.

Members of the Party which is the P.N.C.

are worried concernin12 proper safeguards, but I want th'em to r/ member that it was the P.P.P.

that in­ sisted on having Constitution Rights.

that when the time comes for us to have full Independence, safeguards c()untry need be afraid; lege for any foreign here and invest a credit ment of British there wilJ be full privi­ to com'.
:: investor his money, and it will be for e"'�ry in this Bill The sam'c Party has declared to the people and th'c Govern­ - I refer to -the Bill of Guianese in this of Rights.

inserted in the No one Guiana.

1 will say in conclusion that Inde­ is only a matter of it would incorporate Senator beg to sr.cond lhat ;ny Khan: Mr. President, this Motion, and r'�qucst to speak be reserved.
pendence time, so that Guianesc able to steer their therefore rig.ht own destiny- ancl people will be 25 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Gwiana 26 not only and prosperity plan for progress but for the generation, for the present to come.

They will be able g;cnerations to have such an opportunity, if we get more revenue not only for primary schools bly, a and secondary university.

but, possi­ schools Mr. President, I would say that this Motion should be supported loyal Guianese.
ask the President here, and then everyone wise, to support That being so, I would and the hon.

Members this ·Motion.

would see it by 'every The President: Would any other to speak on the Motion Senator like before the HouS'c?

If no other Senator would like to speak -- in l want it Senator J ardim: Mr. President, that l and my to oppose this Motion, standing understood to be clearly Party are not opposing it on th'e principle of Independence, but on the question of this now'.
We are basing 'Independence on the fact that this opposition, firstly, of an agree­ Motion is a contravention ment signed by both Dr. J agan and Mr. Burnham.

Secondly, has no mandate to move this Motion.

economically arc not cannot therefore dent.
that we Thirdly, independent and indepen­ from the people to sc�k be politically that Government in­ askinp pass resolutions in the United whichever Government or upon it being decided that the should attain period is the both Houses of the British Gui­ stitution West Indies Federation dependence, shorter, ana Legislature Her Majesty's Kingdom to grant independence Guiana, Her Majesty's early thereafter to consider to implement the new situation that the West Indies Federati independence attain as givin_g change in the then operative ana Constitution for not less than one any British Gui­ until it had been in effect call a further this request.
year."
would not be regarded grounds for considering to British Government will Conference that Provided caused by the .decision on should when it would be practicable are "if at any time or upon it being decided held under the than two years after the Gen­ new Con­ that the should attain The operative words not earli'er eral Election stitution West Indies Federation independence, whichever period shorter, both Houses pass resolutions asking Her Majesty's United Kingdom to grant independence Provided to British than one year of self-government and this Motion between that decision being moved.
Government Guiana."

that not !es� elapses is the in the This Motion, on the contrary, is and to grant held in London in It is therefore since our General since the decision in contravention to signed by Dr. Jagan and moved long before two years have Election ] want to refer to the Report of the Conference - the Guiana Constitu­ London Constitutiomil Repmi of the British tional Conference March, 1960, to which Senator has referred.
being in Jine with the findings Conference, I should like to read the deals with this matter which has already been read to this House.

l quote: b'cing elapsed long before one year of self-government has elapsed Independence of the West Indies Feder­ ation.

tlte agreement Mr. Burnham at the London Conference.
If there were any justification for this to be contrav'ened, my Party agreement and I would see no reason to oppose it, but there is no justification No Party won a mandate to seek Independence Party, Progressive question festo, "Her Majesly·s Government accept a vote of 42 per e for British 42 per cent.

is not representative that consti­ cban,l!

:es are introduced as a re­ of the people of this.

cross-section then at any time himself BurnlJam try.
Mr. after the first October Green on Sunday, of Independence and the answer from the peopte was this of " coun­ of independenc the principle Guiana.

On the assumption tutional sult of this Conference, than two years· not earlier General Far from this Motion of thi� of it.

which now.

The it is true, raised the in its mani­ cent.

Furthermore, it is in contravention whatsoever.

from the people said at Bourda held under the new Con- People's section 15, 1961: Ele.
:tion Nunes 27 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Guiana 28 certain equivocal.

Assemblies.

And Mr. Burn­ and guarantees.

Regional ha.m asks for safeguards J;Iis sta_nd on the question of Indepen­ aence 1s completely Either that the coun­ you are absolutely and you are try is ready for Independence to take the consequences of prepared that certainty or you are not.

You do not ask for Independence and in the other hedge it with safeguards and guarantees.

guards and guarantees.


There are no safe­ in one breath in In the light of the experience Ghana, it is clear that no and safeguards into any Con­ guarantees and stitution.

tacitly �uar��tees, you arc admitting, a11d that you are uncertain 1mplic1tly, of the of Independence consequences can be written If you ask for safeguards now.

[SF.NATOR JARDIM] "What did Jagan do?

He depended on race and racial hatred to win."

The New Nation had this to say in its editorial 1961: of Friday, 20th October.
"The People's Party be­ Progressive and today has bnilt up its to the by exploiting - or of Apanjaat tween 1957 following political the doctrine fullest racial exclusiveness".

continu'es 111e editorial - "Having won his way to _power with 2.30 p.m. tool, Dr. Jagan now He admits by implication that this double-edged calls for peace, love and unity".

Mr. Burnham admits that race won the Election.


and yet he is his own vote was racial, that on this vital issue of 'In­ pretending dependence now' he can speak for 41 In his Party's per cent.

of the electorate.

manifesto of 'ln­ there was no question depencl'ence now'.

But Mr. Burnham has - he even further carri'ed supports the Motion for 'Independence now', but is hedging it about with de­ mands for safeguards ot individual the Constitution lndependence, and carried orate - by 66 2/3 per cent.
of the people.

to 11c amended under must be held s of the 'elect­ and guarantees a referendum his absurdity by two-third He demands rights.

that for the need for internal My Party is uncertain of the con­ of 'Independence now'.

The has onal Conference self­ Dr. Jagan and Mr. sequences London Constituti accepted govcrnment.

Both Burnham signed the R.'eport of this Con­ ference.

no mandate ernment with its minority cent in the Election.
self has stated fought lndep'cndencc Mr. Burnham him­ that the elections on race, and that by implication has been given to now was not an issue.

The Elections have proved that vote of 42 pe1 th1e Gov­ were Ghana's amendnrent.

In the light of this proposal it is in­ experience teresti in ng to follow .Cons.titi.uional In February, 1�57, there was a last-minute under mise on Ghana's Constitution.
which 5 Regional Assemblies were to be set up and th'e Constitution was to be vote in Par­ only by a two-thirds changed of the 5 Re­ liament and in a majority gional Assemblies.

compro­ Added to all this are the economic I believe on his way to the United The first step of $413 million.

Dr. Jagan mentioned of Independence.

realities has taken has been to the Government rush abroad to ask for help - help to the 'extent that in Trinidad, States.

$500 million.

mon'cy wh_at.


is this demand for need, but depend­ but an adnuss1on �nce?

Marxist y asks the very important question: be free, in the political economic we be independent ment admits, "How can a man when in the sense; How can when our Govern­ that our by its own actions, sens'.

:-he is un.free?"
:-he is un.free?"

of economic philosoph the figure of This is money that we In December, 1958 - I year and 10 months lat'er - the Ghana Govern­ ment passed the Constitution of of Restrictions) in the �onstitution the Parha.ment Bill to permit alteration by a simple majority and without consulting (Repeal 29 Independence For 9TI-I NOVEMBER, 1961 British Guiana 30 countries?
dependent on help economy is totally When Ghana was from other given its Independence was a sur­ th'ere plus of £50 million cocoa exports.

When India became in­ it had a vast sterling dependent in London after the War, on which the Indian Government port itself dence .
could draw to sup-­ and its new-found built up from its balance Indepen­ Indeipendence, was for two time no measures be a period of self-government years affer or at the August Elections, least one ytrnr after the decision reached on the West Jndies and that during that should be taken to affect the status qwJ; and that the two Houses of this Legis­ lature should pass a Resolution for Independence time had elapsed-not that there is no mandate from the people of this country because of racial division that the Thirdly, now has not been examined, no money to meet that cost.
after these periods before.

to change the agreement, cost of Independence n was won as a result asking of Secondly, and we have the electio Canada'!

Assembly Where are we go­ missions, in this country.

New Zealand, Independence like diplomatic In the Legislative moved an Amend­ shouJd be held High in all the countries of the the will of the people on of 'Independence To take this further, costs money, and we have none.

Our and money­ assets are debts, deficits We have losing Government industries.
to ask for money from abroad.

Where are we going to find th'.

: money to pay for things Commissioners Commonwealth India, Pakistan, Ghana, Australia, Where are w'c going to find the money to do these things?

Where are we going to find money to pay for representation at the United Nations?

ing to find the money to pay for the training and the high salaries of the people we will need; the cost of housing, equipm'ent, Service are we going to fmd the money?

And what about tlre cost under In­ dependence?


among nations, naked and defencel'ess the south of our country, people from another country are coming in and nothing We have on the west of us a country which is claiming this country to be defenceless, some sort of defence?

A fighter plane costs $5 million; at least as much or more.

Whe:r'e are we going to get the money for them all?
debate on this Motion the leader of the United Force (Mr. d'Aguiar) ment that a referendum to ascertain the question cannot move such an Amendment because I have no seconder House.

However.

to a precedent history.

tutional was held to determine Constitution Georgetown for the amendment; Since ·'Independence amendment to our present ment Constitutio would hav'.'.

: historical their in going to the people to ascertain will on Now."

Why are the Government and the People's Progressive to d.o this?
In the prayer that is read at the opening some lines from Tagore which read: Are we going to be unique in that we will stand I should like to point in this country's that we will need at home?

Where when already in is being don'c: about it?

of iliese Sessions or are we going to have to it.

Are we going travelling, the question the expanded a regiment precedent of defence effective that a part of whether belongs ·· ... where the mind is without behind it the then there are in this here, voted Civil Now'.
1 consti­ fear and the head is held high, and where the depth of truth."

words come from 96 voted against.

Now" means an self-govern­ n, the Government Party not prepared should be amended.

In alone 1,005 electors In 1914 a referendum of "Independence It is for all these reasons that I am Motion.

Firstly, that the opposing this Government is going back on an agre'e­ ment which it signed -that there should Let us go to the people and ask for the words that will come forth from the depths of truth.
31 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Gniaria 32 Senator · Tasker: .

J .

welcome this of n of Lh� demand for a General that it seems to me Miss Jardim.

I is 'entirely about this continued on the subject of Indep'.

::n­ of the Motion before within the spirit Nor can I get enthu­ which has and the and Social Nunes.

I should Motion and I do not share the anxieties of my hon.
colleague, do not share her interpretatio paragraph from the R'eport of the Lon­ don Constitutional Conference been dealt with by both herself hon.

Minister of Education Developm'cnt, Senator say in explanation, that the wording the Senate that paragraph.

siastic referendum dence.


I agree that one can draw many conclusions and many lessons from the recent Election, but I would have thought that one thing which was abun­ dantly clear, peated occasions spokesmen sive Party and the People's Congress, pursue full Independence possible doubt whatever ual elector, and it seems to me that.

hav­ so very recently, and ing had Elections with these tw.a Parties over 80 p'cr cent.
of the votes cast, it would be pointless referendum In other words, I feel that it is entirely reasonable very rec'cnt the principle the elections, in the light of those and of the part that of Independence played in that the Go,iemment of the Progres­ National to at the earliest now to go back to a on the issue of Independen and was made clear on re­ by leaders to assume, Elections was that they both intended about that as an individ­ moment.
I have been in no of both the People's having obtained and other ce.

-day-nas -in fact a rn andate now to en­ as soon to achieve Independence deavour as it can.

with her, how­ about -an JJ].dependence which is quite right.

· There is obviously···i;tn.

emptiness comes with penury Jr with begging for aid; it is, in fact, almost a form of pros­ titution.
Where 1 disagree ever, is that I do not believe that the hard facts - and God knows they are hard enough - of our economic position ' of themselves dence impossible.

What I do believe is that those bard facts put a very heavy re­ sponsibility and the people of this country out those problems, face, and get the prioritres anyone goes to London to ask for Inde­ pendence, which we all know is there for the asking.
look the facts in the to sort right before inde'ed on the Government and financial make Indepen­ I make this point because I think it attention Government, goes.
I personally in negotiations were put in the position, view, of drawing which should be solved here would be most unfortunate if, say, Her Majesty's on Independence, as they very well may be, taking a re­ sponsible to probl'ems before any delegation would be very sorry, in the light of Her Majesty's of policy Independence, that the United Kingdom was endeavour­ ing to hold back Independence for British Guiana because out cer­ tain areas in which we were unprepared for Independence.
Government's and principle clear statement on this issue of to have it sugges.ted later it was pointing and lhe responsibilities I say, therefore, that the most urgent Guiana today is to recog­ need in British nize the burdens that Independence not only financial, burden will be heavy.

Senator has referred obviously ana needs an army, a navy or an air ford.::.

will bring.

They are though the financial Jardim to some of them.
Defence could be a major issue, if Gui­ Miss Jardim, very important On th'c other hand, I think the hon.

has drawn atten­ Senator, tion to certain which must be considered and must be solved before Independence can become a reality.

to the question of money, and made considerable play of the considerable to supp.art an independent She referred country.

issues sums that are required She 2.45 p.m.


I would have thought that she of the sort; but then, it needed nothing depends on an appreciation by the Gov- 33 lndep-ehdence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Gt�:ana 34 of position of the presence, he here and even if you like a frigate ibould we not St!lrt to primary and of what will b'e the Guiana when fuIIy independent.
of this is going to be ernrttertt British Aftet all, ohe result so to speak, the removal of tb'e United Kingdom forces; which will no longer put that at sornethlt1g 1'roubrid Atldnson field, it is, nonetheless, symbol of rather more substantial in reserve.

sources of our Independence, more attention by paying secoudary education?

bera] Arts College University would help us in the long run, but can we afford to do this as a priority?
Are we making the maximum use and the most economical facilities ther afield?

Are we recognizing the fact that, by virtue ciently graphical circumstances remote and tend, therefore, to little u� of the educational in the region and fur­ suffi­ of ge0- we are somewhat become a called of soldi'ers at Certainly, a Li­ would h'clp us; also, a and parochial-minded?
I make this point because, ge, or a corilpatiy to have a desire to availabJe available inbred were any a re­ between and of Guiana as an the defence of British be a dis­ us, there must obviously country.

the burdens of our neighbours attack tinction Guiana as at present Are we prepared ind'ependent that that will en­ to shoulder after all, is only one tail?

But defeI1ce, but still one aspect of the important, problem.

1n some veloped considerable do not think Guiana would approach in the Same way.
I hope not.

I think that we; as a peopl'e, mature artd intelligent But what about the other problems?

it has de­ countries value.

I prestige are very much more it in these tnattets.

a cross-fertili­ I think one of the great advantages numbers abroad and mix opportunity for instance for increasing th'e University College of the West Indies in Ja­ provides, - whether maica or in the faculties - in Trinidad is the of Guianese to travel with others.
It produc'es zation of ideas and experience only benefit this country.

One of the problems, is that not all come of course, back.

Too tnany of th'e best young Not Guianese or only those who other intelle but skilled who, even today, are still craftsmen jump­ ing on aircraft the curtain go abroad and stay abroad.

comes d own on migr ation.

to go to the U .K.

before ctual activities, go to pursue studies which can Senator J ardim cited th'e problem of Here, again, prestige at the present representation.
plays a large part.

What are the priori­ ties?

Have we got them right?

Are for moment, we planning, to as a nation, the use of our resources, - for the deployment ext'ent the ruI1est resources for of our human and natural the maximum development of this coun­ try, in the short term as well as in the long l4erm?
In the field of education, several have been made by Ministers of a University, comments on the possi­ of the Government recently Col­ or University bilities lege, or a Lib'eral for British Guiana.

Much to be desired.

to be desired.

But have we got the priorities formative right?


Looking ahead to the and the most important Arts College Greatly years Some, of course, are going in order more fully in their to equip th'emselves and then re­ chosen trade or profession, turn to practise that trade or profession Guiana.
One of the most en­ in British days I have 'ever spent in my couraging life was just under a year ago, when I spent New Year's day in London with a young Guianese who wants to be a master craftsman in the field of carpen­ try.

And he was quite clear about what he was doing in the United Kingdom.

He was going to become a first class car­ he came back he penter, so that when and do wen could open his own business the work which he knew was being shab� by all in commerce 35 .
Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British .Guiana 36 [SENATOR TASKER] bily done nov.r.

and will be u success.

are all too few.

· I hope he keeps it up But these cases Secondly, what are the natural re­ poor in Here-, as we know sources of the country?

only too well, we are relatively our natural resources.

an easy country to be an uphill Do .w'e fully recognize this, and are we prepared and sacrifices accept the burdens this will entail in an ind'ependent Guiana?

to develop.

battle.


Guiana is not It is going to that lifeblood his Government's and and one of the said this too much.

business that Guiana has Thirdly, in general the outside displayed repeating the country more and more, this in particular.

--the commercial jobs that Government that Independence for Independence.
We have heard a great d'eal wholeh'eartedly fair, but 1 think it is true; will depend and imagi­ on the resourcefulness towards enterprise I be­ enterprise that private enormously by the Premier and vital need on th'e really unity and a national And all that I am endeavour­ We are se'eing, cl rift away - this feeling to offer, too little Lt is not wholly and that is why I endorse th� views expressed other Ministers for national approach.
ing to do is to suggest that most constructive can do today - the most cons,trnctive iob - is to give a clear, �111equivocal priorities largely nativeness and industry of the country.

I have been very glad to hear what thb hon.

Minister afternoon, attitude positive private lead in the planning of can lieve devoutly of contribute I think it would be British Guiana.

crazy to try to do it any other way.

We need more friends mor'e capital, there is plenty of that we are to and responsibilities of it.
This, it seems to of I believe very rapidly.

it back, but to try to 'ensure fully competent the burdens accept it when we achieve the main responsibility me, must be The Govemm'ent, Government.

to run the affairs of this is mandated country.

The Government has brought which has gained this Motion, forward support considerable and can be expected --tliis are, all of us, too easy-going thinking: happier planning in the last analysis, tion, must depend primarily things.
depend on the essential and productivity in the conunonly-a productivity the man in the workshop, th'e field; but also on the productivity of and not least in the all areas of society, admini:'itration.

Senator field of public Jardim referred panded Public Service added burdens right.

It is Service, more economical needed.

of Independence.

She is Public not only an expanded t and it is ailso a more efficien which is Public Service evidence if I saw positive and of clear priorities.
of its p'eople ccepted of the labourer, We want and allies.

not less; and Heaven knows in the oth'er House to gain it here.

But any country, any na­ on four main need for an 'ex­ as one of the is not enough.

In this country we with wishful of talk.

is coming must I would say a country and fully organized My concern is not to hold and I, for one, would be much of clear After all, after all, to the future the factory scope for all.
Finally, - not only sense of the to the __ • the artisan, or 3.00 p.m. resourcefulness Firstly, on the quality of its political hip.

Does it have the political readers leadership imagination of the people?

that can win and retain the and support of the majority to pay th'e hard facts?

Are we prepared price - the blood and sweat and tears­ I have of this uphill about the answer, be- no doubt whatev'er battle?
Personally, Are we prepared these to recognize 37 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Guiana 38 it is.

But I cause if the answer were any other than yes, then this Motion would be empty words, and I do not beli'eve urge the Government to seize this oppor­ tunity now to say in unequivocal terms, in very clear terms, pr'ecisely and the priorities planning be for our economic and social ment.

Let us spell it out and let the people know the truth.
Let the people realize what it is going to cost in effort, and how much be.

what the are going to worth-while it is going to develop­ of stand­ of others?

and dangers to be independent; not been educated they hav'e not had the opportunity to think about the burden of Independence and the difficulties ing alone.

Are we strong enough to stand on our own legs and be really Will Independence dependent in 1962 bring any benefit to the people ence gives of Guiana?
Independ power to the Government, but it do'es unemploy­ not provide work or relieve ment.

We should endeavour to become wealthy and strong by our own sweat, and prove by example we are ready to undertake sibilities.

and precept that Political heavy respon­ in­ Mr. President, bond of hu­ Senator was made d'epend­ Too-Chung: dependence is the strongest man society; mankind ent on each other.

Every one of us can­ not be equal or independent.

Som'e of us must rule and teaeh, and others must learn and obey.
We shall always have with us the strong and the weak, the young and the old, the ambitious and the lazy.

Other But colonialism is finished.

countries have been granted their Inde­ pendence and we must be, so to speak, in the fashion.

Every true Guianese wishes Independence for this country.

The principle lieve that Majesty's pendence our own affairs other country.
has been accepted, and we be­ it is the declared policy of Her Government to grant us Inde­ so that w'e can have control of and be subordinate patriot to no The country needs economic expan­ work.

Having of Independ sion, and we are begging for help to carry out development agreed on the principle it is important period should just warn the carefully blems before and purposefully and intelligent ly wi:;igh the pro­ not be too brief.

Government that we must I would ence, .


that the transitional us and plan intelligently Senator Persaud: Mr. President, I Firstly, the, Motiol1' he is capable because of four independence or free­ out the b'est in man; slavery of.

Secondly, rise to support reasons.

dom brings the wors'e freedom promotes slavery debases Thirdly, as subjection c�mse freed.om develops and character, opposite to it.

it_ Fourthly, be­ a man's mind does the and then destroys it.
security, where­ freedom ensures imperils whereas slavery human progress; Independe nce will be the greatest Government considers to relinquish and, when Her that it is the reins, event in our history, Majesty's practicable be as happy as any other supporter Motion which is before forward to the day when he will become J. man and may be able to tell his father: "I shall do as I please."

chest and experienc:les of power and freedom.

I sh<1Il of this us.


A youth looks a wonderful He puffs his feeling ., With Independence we shall cer­ But tainly determine what is our destiny?

our own destiny.

The people have So, Mr. President, it is the duty of mankind in British Guiana to make it a happy place that we may live in unity.

As usual the motto of the colonist is to divide and rule.

It is happening in British moment.

Infiltrators are trying to infiltrate and div�de us that they may rule for a longer penod.
We were born at a splendid and most envious time, that will come after us wil( envy us for Guiana at the present and the generations 39 lndepenaence For 9TH NOVEMBER.

1961 BriJit,i, GUU./11(/ The Pre.$jd�nt; Fmm wh.at?

Senator Persaud:From to show to wh.om �he the Deeds Registry .

I qu.ote: share,s are bemg ailo.cat.t1d extracts fr.om P, t,,.

a'Agpia, D'A.m,i.ar Br�the1;5, l).ati.lJeen d' A$)tiar P.biJpm,in� Margaret Lt.d.
O'Amuar M. d'Ag13iar l�tie� .d'Aguia ,r V.d'Aguiar M.d'Aguiar �hllft�IS 114,)92 60,0QP l.0,0,QO 2,00.0 1,-<tOO � ;G.00 1,000 l,000 govern.

PJ::RSAUDj ha<:.

lbeen reduc!

!-.d Tb.at themselves.

to a myth.

about informati.Olil.

lSEN,HOR what we are going to do.

Ours is the age n{ struggle---stmggle after freedom.

The peopfos of tlle world want to Hve a dig­ for such nified life, and they are fi.ghting a life.
No one ean �ay that people now­ adays cairn.ot statement I wlU give you a l�ttle the Colonies and what has be.en irnppen.­ ing w them.

rufo in piaees Guiana, amd fo.r 289 y.ems.

to p;rm1,e that they ru:� maikiNg h� bap-p;y tlaose for them.

But go and examin,e places lawless­ ness.


for,oeiliwt ploita1ion anoe .. ia.nd y.et t\hey wa�t t1;1s to belii.eve that they-.ar'.e heLp:iing ,tb.eJ[l. and you will find misery, :away ,<Df iands, ex­ fa1Jltin_e, like Aogoia, ecv,en tlhe te!fritory the ,e.oioru.st,s Portu�l!les.e of J�ica h:�we tried ,y,e:a,rs of After fi{;e butildre.cl of tfu.e £.a,rmers.

itakill3g ��or­ of this finn.

On Contr�e;ts E� d'Aguws �<i>n9p0Jjze 1tbe t?

;iJ.� ��pi0i­ b)t)(Sm.�.s.s.


Tiu!y b.-aV;e � rigl:l 51_ga·�st Incdw.i::111t�ape .

Jje t�$.

to� Hilac:l� tie•ver.3J �a<U·;a,ct.s.

0� ContrapJ J\119.

�t Ja:�d : a ht h>9u.gl;bt .

;i.

J,argi:: �nt.i.�,u aWil �0Ja -pact of it J.f!

the �r�w:ery i£9r :$4<0,000.

O,.o �ntr�� No .. 2 Jae g.et� .$2.400 i(ll.er � as tb.e Ma.11aigiiig Director Nos.

5 and 6 the sum of 36 cents is paid t0 id" Aguia.,r B;rotbers, 1,m .of 1beer :s0!1.ol.

aboll.t '900,iOOQ fom.ecrl $_]'.lj;Ji).@0.


T!hi,s fiee[s ithat w.e aau.d aillGl\w b;IJflil t0 �x:pl0ilit llh..@se aine llibe ,pe.o,ple ilie.e.dom.. to CilllJl.

@.te ifir(!

),lj)U Mir.

G.b-a.r1glii.

hiun to he.ar tin.is qlil.

@tati@,m Ghandi: _ .�@-llid iliiw.e 1tfue :S.airm.e Jii;(e 1tili\e :{!Je.(i);plle.

wb,0 .�.e .afitaicd i(i)f ¥ ert b,1;: -a&k:s ro].µ_,e ih.,an.

Pil\�$li!

;)r iI.Il [ 9§·8 001- gallCAfls @f m.eea :a;filcl ,�,ho � -w.o &r0.llil M,r.
:is ;<1 ilicl.adu Ltd. (())fl !evctry gal- the� :S(l)ld .lJllcl Jake Wair.

t}rns been ,deda!f.ed oia eolon�al­ and in .t.f:ie Congo the territories ism ancl n� foee-thinkill!g marJil of th.is age and ,sa;y should appear in any audi_e}nce "[ am for ,oo'looiahsmi".

H.e sfa@uld Ihle se:t a�ide as a cr(i)(i)l< of .the hig:foes.t cwcle.r.

For the past 50 years ii!J.il.

,t!be Belgiaira ,olomal po;p;uftation has be�n reduced.

Why?

Be­ caus.e of starv,ation .and di;seaSs: pf a century.
us that they are he'lpin ma_y put up a few sdhools airfie'lds.

but that is mere1y for exploi­ tatiom them to carry .away the nation's for haH Yet tltey want to prove to _g them.

They and to enable or buiid a few :wealth.

---�-WlLe.u.

.the hon,.

P,r�mier was making .

"'Y eu will •not iliie ,cl6Qe�v.ea 1Tuy tbe bis right sbotild was trying ar.gume.nt liw ,c�1t;).\ll&iq tb preserve ,ili.at In.ctia mu&t :not Ass...embly.
�y .4skitl,_g the Pr:emicr cw.ho wish .to provided in .tliie Le�slative hjs pO,Ults the hon.

Member 'for ue.or;gftt.own­ Central to �oit ofuers 1o Jillil.9.te from Gb.a:ndi a.n.d so ,oia.

S:uc:h p.�rs.o.ns be exposed.

Memb..e.r for Geo�getown-.Cen:tra.l a ,com,Pain_y .to J4he 1pub­ .and .ofiered s.har\es lic.

'Now '89 ,per cent.

of the sha,r-eholden, ow.o '3J.3 per .cent.

JO .1 perce.JiJ.t.

B6 ,p.e.u:e..ot mo�o:pO:fue -- Mr. P.nesicle.nt ,guot�, speoHiius lw !Hli\�e .
:,.��� .those facilities �l0es net ,enter lf.©r 1UL1e 1F)eC\.!lle.

We ,crlo ,nqt ft)gt1lat_e ,!1m!s.es ,t.ac1l1ues for fhi�ve_s propensity fiha,u 1ohie:\iit1:g •hie ,mo1,e Jlil.Qrb_�Ji)S ,lil1;0::1tib11�iCiln.

Jls ,it ,n_ot the parent of bot.�?

country 'If I .was appointed for all India, wouM •lie ,to ,qlese :all ,tile liQL\Qf n •wad rt.tw,t 'have l\\ust v.icps ,4lf tbc ,Cilr Jico11sc .. of th.e .sltart:;s. Th1;: ,d'f\iguia_rs tb.e whole situation.

to indtd_ge their (I •hold drink ,to and ,ilrnG!


oJ the sh.ares., GWLl for �h1evmg.

damnatile W.e .do .m>t .P.mv.ide for them.

The State in abolishing shn.re.ho.lde,rs ,:,hops.'!"

•\V.\tl\Qt,lt _0f iH-tw;ne.

dictator for one hour of ·t'lle ,0t�en .driok The bGn.

formed May ] do ,1 as[, you tu join fl1c the ·liquor shops.

'1:he !first ;t!l1ing I .weuld ,<;Ql\"\Jlensu.t,ion 41 IndepeJ1df!11ce For J,J5 p.m.

I would like him to hear that.


He claims to be a true Chri;tian, and I would like to quote from the Holy Bible.

from Hatakk•tiik.

people only 7,% pf 1-):ie self-government, 1,700,000 have an income limited island's a yea,r.

'fhe otP.e.r of m_0,:e tpan $.8.40 93 % exist on .a .bare �ubsil?.t/!.Qf.e J .ev4, many of t)l.ern virtually outsige the mop.ey economy, sleepipg on ban,ma leaves in miserabJe hillside shanties or in the hulks of wrecked j.unk,11ards!'
cars in .city Senator Jardim: To a point of Mr. Speaker.

Would you please order, give a ruling Arti\:le 31(3) of Clause (3) reads: the Standi.ng whether this is in line with Qr.ders?

This is 289 years of British rule in Ja­ maie�.

The saipe thing is actuaUy hap­ pening i1ere, anq many people whfo appr:oached say "We ,h.av'e no n:i.OJJyY·" i wili gj�.e it1 a nuJshteH, frJDm p.as.t figur:e,s) ,6_;,i ,rtm,rs .them."

iflur.ing rhow much mon_� has he.en sp.ent .


(Am€rican ,civilian 1,0.469, 7[,(i), :Ln .the pop1J11.ati0ns.

war aib0ut ff,7,0Q,000,(i)(i)(i) hiistor\Y, in w.ar an(ii lives.

P.uriog .the 17.th .cen­ tury France s,�ent at w,ar.

Lf y.0u a:sk th'om wl;ly ,t:aey ike.ep piwple ie •these c0fomies tfu.e.y s�,¥ "We 'wan.t ,Jileace, and w.e want ,to educate tlile 18th eeFJJ,1;1ey Fraaee sp•ent 52 �ear,s at war, and .du,ring ·the l,9,th.

<sentury she spent 3 2 years at :war.


War .casua!Lty list 1mmbe.rs e*e,h1ding W J.4-1•918 pe0f'Fe .w.ere ,i1w01l.v�d.

War casuaJ.ty claimed victims.

Warld War iil casualt<y :1,96.

'f.0tal dead the..y saJ were 1.

'2,,9 ,number .woun­ .Gloo MA@0,i(uGO.

K,Qrean .war --UJaii.ted Nations A.Ygust 7, 1'95·� -:­ United -Staites aFld a1l:l.i€s casiialty :list was 4fr5,0QO.

The lat'e l!J.S.
The lat'e l!J.S.

-Secretary of State, ,Mr. fo'l:rn F,(\)ster DYi.Jes, declared that the tained about 2,000,000 tlae J 0;000,�QO Q.1,1 t of ev.ery 3 ,clie<!I :" 3"7,508,6'86 Jist-44,835, armies have sus­ casualties, .people of dNo,r:tb and of Korea 1 "Communist .60,0QQ; Report, list "Every servati0ns ticw.

.... " &mator shall confine his ob­ to lih.e su.bjecJ .under ­ considera Th,e ,P.resjde.JJt: I wil'l allow the s,p.�,;1.ker 1to pr_o,ceed.

Senato,r f�rsiw.d: Th.c JrJ,1,tb hurts.


has only has 1 7 verses, Habakkuk first Chapter CbapJe,r Cbap,ttr se_c0ucl Ch�Je.r, ve;r;s_e 1§: h.as 20 vers'es, bas 19 y,ers.es.

three C.IJ,.

;1.pt�r.s-.tb.c the second and the third T.bis is ir.i the ''W0.e unto rum it.hat .gi.vellb >.bour drink, that ,puttest t,l::Ly bo.ttle 1lo him.

and makost him drunken ,also.

that thou ,their nakedness!"


ma,yest fook -0n his .neigb­ morning ,col;ln.try We are going to de­ man's poc)cet ,and to be­ to<;iay in this have the they know how to pull .mon�.Y ou,t · In this in­ w)l;i.ch we have i.n 'f'hat is what is happening country.

These gentremen brains; of the mdinary com.e millionaires.

c'lare war on such things.


dependent mjnd it will not be that some ;P,eople will work froi;n 1:1n.�it i;iight and can­ not make ends meet, w'hi;le others sit in a .chai,r readin,g so 111,uc'h moi;t'.ey at mon,t,h-eod tha.t .th.e.y can hardly spend it.

I am not against the individuals; the system, ,system.

anal we ai;e ,going to ofua,nge ,the In my remarks Jamaica.

May I quote also what is happening in Jaro_11i�a?


of _A�gust fro_m T,ime rna,gazinc 1pa,ge 18: This is 4, 1961., i;ie.wspwers a,nd coHect T mentioned I am against "J�!,llai� little W6a\th 289 year� classi_qi.lly -from ,too and /tOO .I111lny ,peqroe.

,l\\.ft�r pf rule and )..'5 ,y�ars of British ,suff�·s The 19 yea.rs of .the Napolepnic wa,r $40,000 Up,to 1914 w:�s still _,000,000 spent cost U,S.

$15�000,000,,QOO.

tbc.re was _at ·Ie�st Uk Wo,rld ·War I cost to uks_troy $3.31\98.0,579,667.
On J1,1ly 1, 1946, th.!

!.t;e .$}5,;000�000�000 of World W�tr I .deit\ts ,ui;ip,sii_d.

W:ar .I.I .1:c\\l tha,i;i :u,�.

$l,16Q,��l/1-.6.�,,J&4.

Tlte �9,11x�n w.w �$.t J.lw Y..\1i1yd :S.t<lt� J:\P­ .,9,oo (sev,e,l) m9_�.� ,of ,.20,0.o.o,ooo "x'·m�9:; Th� .G9St oJ Wo.�l� 1t,,ig t\!W,fS:S, IQ._ore .terribly .iµto 43 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British [SENATOR PERSAUD] the direct b'cfore the war ended).

These billions wer'e strictly itself.

There is no money ta.


develop colonies, yet so much money is being liv'es.

spent to destroy cost in Korea the Guiana 44 Afghanistan, Indonesia, Iraq, Yemen, Nepal, and the Guiean Republic without Arab Republic, Burma, Ceylon, Ethiopia, several any strings.

a satellite of any country We want to be fre'e and to think as free people.

are help'.

:d to be in the world.


It is not our intention other countries Let us examine how that money the the world witl1 throughout The money spent on fully equipQed wars w�s enough to built hospitals in Korean in more than thirty destroyed The price of one could have been spent.

heavy bomber could have built a modern brick school cities.

The cost of aircraft the second World War and the and Indo-Chinese have easily for any emergency world.
The money spent on ammuni­ tion could have supplied modern highways.

tanks could have equipped with trucks and tractors everywhere of people till the soil.

hungry for wheat and rice could have been fed at the cost junked or destroyed The cost of a single built homes to house at Jeast 8,00G peonle.

Homeless housed and slums cleared of ships sunk in battle.

During 3,?.66 years of recorded history have been 3,134 years of war and only peace.
Yet they of so-called 232 y'ears say "We have no money to develop colonies''.

of the fighter planes during the last wars.

destroy ones could have been The millions for the price er could have farm'ers the past there to the Many lies have been told about the Central Union.

Great men, went there Soviet and saw they were all lies.

The hon.

Member for Georgetown (Mr. with his red herring of d'Aguiar), "quote Nehru, quote Gandhi", would not 1;ke to hear a quotation H'e would hate it.
This book, "Glimpses of World History"-and its author is Pandit Jawaharlal letter Nehru-on page 232, from Nehru.

71, says: ·'There could be no real freedoff economic freedom, and so long To call a starving without remained.

as poverty man free is but to mock him.

So the next step was the right for economic and that fight is being waged today all over the world.

Only in one country it be said that economic been won by the people generally, anu that is Russia, or rather the Soviet Union."
freedom has freedom.

can freedom.

and they are out pre­ Twenty odd years ago those people won economic sently strings, danger, develop Far East or to the countrivs as�in?

for help.

It is clearly book, "Soviet tI11s of the Peoples Friends to help the whole world without political .if the W'est should refuse this cmmtry, in our going to the there and in Union-Faithful - of the East" and economic.

I see no to little stat�d The President: Who are the pub­ lishers?
-- I th1nk tlte time is ripe now and, rightly said, we will be and will be asking as the Premier going to the West first for money.

We wish, for the benefit of the West, that they pour some of that colony of just half money into this little a million people to make them happy, and I agree that should they say "No'', we have to seek money elsewhere.

There there can be no ques­ are other places; tion about that.

I have a little book here entitled Helps Economically Countries".
rupees, and countries one billion like the United "How The Sovi'et Union India received Senator It was ::irinted Persaud: in New Delhi.

On the cover are photo­ r;raphs of Mr. Nehru, the Prime Minister Under-developed of India, Khrushchev.

the President of India and Mr. 45 Independence For 9TH NOVEM!

!ER, 1961 British Guiana 46 The President: You say it was published publishers?

in New Delhi.

Who are the Senator Booklets.


Mr. Khrushchev Persaud: Sovieit Land These are a few words by on the cover: raised Jardim for op­ reasons given by Senator posing this Motion.

Two points by the Senator were that we do not have a mandate and tha,t she from the people, of the and her Party are very uncertain of Independence.

consequences These are, indeed.

two fantastic opposing where in the won.kl.


for ;my people any­ freedom reasons for the sympathies "Our �ympathies, enemies and defend their of the Soviet people, have always been and will always be with the peoples who battle for their independence, who fight their country's freedom.

Our people naturally abhorr \Ve shall always be with colonialism.

who have not yet freed the peoples �lves from colonial always be ·with the peoples to consolidate dence and to achieve dence."
who battle indepen­ indepen­ tyranny.

We shall their political economic them­ who has, indeed, conceded.

On the other h::md, we have Sena­ people.

I am very, very race, should not be denied th{' tor Tasker, after this long but unsuccessful that freedom Guianese much surprised indeed, conceded from what he has said he has given us a clear indication Guiana indeed spells that Senator Tasker this principle; that the future of has, and Well.
do taking my seat, I only wish So, before and pray that the Western countries all that can be done.

We are a little coun­ try here with big land, a sleeping British Send money to allow us to develop the land and let the people live in peace and harmony.

3 .30 !

),Jn.

Guiana, giant, with aill the resources.

comradeship May the light of reason; may fair­ dawn to episodes in the Guiana.
Long live :play and lasting close these unsavoury history of British tl1e militant Long Jive the peaceful l;:ieople Guiana.

Long live the People's Pro­ gressive and Party and the founder leader Party, Dr. Cheddi Jagan.

people of British of the People's Guiana.

Progressive of British it fully; In 1957, we em­ with Indepen­ made it - in in dlearly, of the P.P.P .. what our We have, undoubtedly, occasions very clear on several 1953, 1957 and 1961.

We have never kept our views or any of our plans secret.
In 1953, we stated, the manifesto views were in connection dence for Guiana.

phasized even clearer.

dear, what the economic position and what are our !plans ment of the country.

Senator referred economy which we have set out in our manifesto, and this should be a clear in­ dication to �et British prosperity.
and in 1961, it w,1s We have made it also will be for the develop· �f how the Government intend.� Nunes of mixed to the programme Guiana on the real road to Senator Khan: Mr. President, it for me to a very great privilege to this most in relation which is before us will have history that it is the P.P.P.

which is indeed say something important today.

Undoubtedly, it recorded has evidently championed the cause of freedom, here.

Guianese measure This afternoon, however.


I have had one of which I was ex­ two surprises., pecting, prise, it was a pleasant one hand.

we have heard some fantastic although a sur­ one.

On the but the other, a and develop for our own feeling We should n ot wish to be It is, indeed, fitting for me to say that the time has come when we, in should realize Guiana, national conscious country.

tied, any longer, tht!

Colonial we be subjected ments, detractions are facing in our country?
solve the problems to these embarrnss­ and eo.

:>nomic ills we We want to and in the coontry, Office.

For how long will to the apron strings of 47 llttlepetzilt!hce For 9nt :Nev:ti:Mfi:fnt, 1961 Btiti!lt Gt4/afl.n 48 [SENA:'FO'R KHAN] This Motion, Guiana is made free.

it is dear we wilil never be able to do this unless British is therefore, pdlitically.
fitting; to forward and we are looking see, in the face of the many bold state­ ments whic,h are being made sy the Colonial Office, that British become free on the same date as is set for the freedom of the West Indies Federation.

Guiana will 3.40 p.rh.

Jardim; should be gracious be@atise w this Motion and ctiivalt"y I find inY§�lf unoer diffietilty the only senate·r in opposifiart i, Senator th,lt I prudence flayed wherever try to walk between chivalry dence and not lean too heavily sick.
must be that reaction it shows itself.

I shall and pru­ on eithe1 to the ·lady.

counsels but �ttjt1ifls Senator J ardim tells us that she is on state 't:JtincipaUy, to this Moti,bn, to debar freeddlt1 She said that the Govern­ from the no mandate from our present e. She said tha.t the If M: look atound the wotld, what opposed is cry­ do we see?

All over, everybody four counts.


ing out for freedom; in and just fancy, ment had received we have sensible this twentieth century, peo,ple to proceed Gtiianese just trying to Independenc fo·r their own people.

timing .of this Motion was a con­ of an agreement travention into at the London Conference year.

She said that she and those for whom she speaks could not feel as� sured of a cotnfo1table Finally, uependent Guiana.
that Independence was a costly thing, and we do not have the money to sup­ port it.

Those are rthe main arguments to con­ adduced, and, I shall endeavour though fine myself to those arguments, r will necessarily have to bring in a few minor points to underline T am going to say.
of whl1t the last elections entered las· their respective everyb0dy, to assure, life in an in­ she sarn what of had a we cart assure, on behalf and we have as·pect to There is dfily tllie otliet which I would like to refer before tak­ of ihg h1y seat, and that is the question J atdim re­ Sehat.dt rrtcial division.

to this and said that this was te­ ferred sf:ititisible of the P .P .P for the mett1bets ahd P .N.C.

winning seats.
winning seats.

We have, Undoubtedly, clear indication were: and it: it is necessary, tlie P.P.P.

done everythihg of the House1 both irtside and otttside will!

division that th.is question of racial exist so long as the P.P.P.

re­ no longet mains head of the Government in the quite clearly.

ftlture.

our position to do; ana we-have said tifue-and again that - unless the two majt>t races combine with the other sections munity-join able to make Guiana a happy i;:ilace.
which was given by the The indicatio·n P.N.C.

irl.

the Lower House is a good one for the fut11te weH for the future of eur country, \vhether it is under illiternal mel'lt or fully independent.

of the com­ will not be aiid what we intend We have stated.

fotlces1-we of Guiana.

It spells seff-gov�rn­ Tasker As Senator J ardim suppmts at the deneral out, Jndependence was one Election.
to me that the peo;1le who say there is for Independence no mandate from our people are Rip Van Wirtkle-s who have not yet awakened.

has pointed of the issues As a matter of fact the Party which Senator ports her-I point-was electorate iri.

winning heirrors have to face was the prospect pendence The P.P.P.

supported pendente, am not certain at pai11Js to threaten under a P.P.P.

Government.

won the Election.

the P.P.P's and there was no illusion ot which sup� on the th.e that if the P.P.P.
succeeded the Electibn that British Guiana would stand for lnde­ the P.N.C.

tihe of the of Inde­ in Hubh11rd: Mr. President.

Senator there is very little �half of the Government.

Nevertheless, for me to reply to on First of all-no mandate.

It seem� 49 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Guiana 50 J reflected and, after reflection.

the of Independence.

of those who supported be one thing and then another.

the minds P.N.C.

on the question One knows that the P.N.C.


will, at times, but on the quesition tht!

P.N.C.

has been consistent both at the Election.

I the Election think we can dismiss the .irgument of no mandate as being groundless.

and after of Independence should and produced the To illus,trate which we are now working.
the Constitu­ Dr. Jagan, a Motion that the new Consti­ have enshrined my point I should like in to refer to something that happened the Constitutional which de­ Commission bated the Constitution report which fonns the basis of the Con­ stitution While we were discussing tion.

the Leader of the P.P.P., proposed in it a Bill tution of Rights.

I would have thought that desir­ on such a proposal, so eminently able, there could be no question of a debate Unfortunately, Commission portant cussed of it.
3.50 p.m. and it wouid have been accepted.

the Chairman that it was an im­ Motion and could not be dis­ at once without insisted being given notice of that of t·his Motion is in­ not have imagined of an agreement is surprising.

The second argument that tilt: tim­ of 1 that a citizen ing of this Motion is a contravention the London agreement should would come be­ of a dependent country and argue a case for fore fellow-citizens the Metropolitan power which holds the freed om of these people in its hands!
What if the timing deed a contravention signed in London or signed anywhere e]se?

It is the right of any people to is not be free, and to demand freedom on whieh time limits a question can be set.

All that agreement can mean is t that the United may not desire 0f our freedom date.

But, surely, of .our be U?

to us to have the question independence and pushed, pressed far in our time � not ln the struggled time of those who hold us in bonds.
I therefore dismiss feel that in dismissing the support not only of sentimental but of rational people, to put their faces to the sun and let the shadows Kingdom Governmen to have the ,question opened before a certain it must at all times that ,argument, it I will have fall behind.

people who like and I of the Then there is the question They are fearful Jardim and tho5e may not be as bright confidence of Senator for whom she speaks.

that, in a free and Independent Guiana, tomorrow as today.
for Senator I will concede Jardim and those for whom she speaks, tomorrow in an Independent well not be as bright tainly ve�teTdav Guiana may as today - cer­ bright as the which we have buried for ever.

not as gloriously that, probably, for minorities, but this 1;,roposal the freedom about to body in these of minorities, w'c have heard a Qreat deal of and I agree that it should I said to the "Mr. right; this is of it is the firs•t in came to a conclusion.
of the Commission: Chairman you are perfectly Chairman, an important proposal; its kind that has ever been considered a Constitution-making be held parts, up until everyone has had a chance think it over."
1 also said: "Sir, in this Committee talk about freedom the rights is not a proposal to safeguard of minorities it is a very far­ and in that respect in this coun­ reaching try there has always been freedom for minorities-for certain have always been rights for for certain proposal which now be made total - that everybrJdy have the same freedom to walk without fear.

Jn that respect I said "Jt is im­ let us leave it."
portant; and the rights should should reside in minorities and this is a minotities, that the freedoms minorities.

or the rights e, because departur Th'cre of minorities, minorities, At the next meeting what happened?
A Member came forward with a pro­ posal that the Motion should be ruled ultra vires as being outside the powers 51 Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 1961 British Guiana · 52 currency into dollars and cents, into or into almost any inter­ of your -the effect So that the lack of money, rto Indepen­ translated pmmds sterling national freedom.

rather than being a barrier dence becomes the reverse once you have gained your Independence, cause when you are independent people will help you, because your own.
When you are a colony you are somebody else's must look after you out of resources they do not intend charge, and they you stand on to use.

be­ tional Senator Assembly Jardim's of Senator [SENATOR HUBDARD] Committee.

The of the Constitu -that Motion is a Member who proposed Party.

He n1ernber and on a United Force ticket was elected now sits in the Legislative as of that Party.
Therefore, a spokesman it is not surprising, not in the least stir­ ,that prising, Jardim should come and suggest, as she has done, forward that she and the peop�e she speaks for fear that in an independent they may not have as ha-ppy a lif e as they now have, or as they have had that that fear is I concede yesterday.

justified.

and walk among the lowly is a great condesce nsion indeed.

It when it is merely a condescens io,n, but when it it is insupportable of life.
For the mighty to descend tomorrow So that is a little If contradiction.

is tolerable is a condition Then Senator not sn;Jport colonialism wiB then you you will ap­ if you them, but, of course, of �ife the stream of a then y.ou have felt understand these things; preciate have lived remote from and in the rarefied atmosphere of the community, narrow section.

clear you do not appreciate it is perfectly Jardim said that we The granting of Indepen­ these things.
Independence because dence .only me.ans tbat you have to work .

You do not get it be­ for yourselves cause you were born to it, or because you can go and have it discussed little now.

of thing tbat happens should we have no money.

This is, of course, the old story of ,the hen and the egg.

She mentioned the sterling had as a which the Indian Government cclony and the reserves which the had as a colony, Ghana Government and which do not exist now.
It So that really what we have to bas not been ans'Yer is answered very shortly may be that Senator Jardim and, her lack of con:fi-I thmk, very compreheI1Jsively.

a colonia�, because However, cknce in tomorrow raised on lived in a separate world of the realities unaware colonials.

and our colonial -money.

- What-our -colonial done is to take away what we had - tory today is quite a different not to give.

That is why we want our what it was even 15 years ago.
The world Independ has there have been questions and is quite which I think I would do well to say a of om life as fow words.

One of the questions We have not had money, was the q ue,stion of defence.

state has not given us Tasker spoke at some length state has--tion-of defoncec-- Defence raised Senaitor party.

That is not the kind suggests that she thing from on the ques- of ·a-small terri=­ cocktail!.

balance ence.
balance ence.

at a bal­ Ghana and India ha.ct steriing When India was freed those bal­ impositions Certain balances could are being impositions ·ances.

ances were frozen.

were made before those be freed.

Certain made upon us also, but when we are free we make decisions not for any power standing That is the first advantage °which ·can be and it is an advantage fur ourseives; of freedom, above us.
today is seemingly more divided Iy than it has ever been in its history; seemingly, opportunities division I say, because there are more for making play of that than had existed previously.

poilitical­ Of course we have had revolution­ i n the past when division ary periods were as finn and as strong as now, but it been .the case at no time in history has that war, as an instrument of policy, be ruled out.
In that particular lilust I think s 53 Independence For 9nr NOVEMBER, 1961 British Guiana 54 such super weapons anything of this real world in which than he ever did b�fore.

at anyone else.
at anyone else.

And so in the a higher state of He has for a of defence burde,n It was not many years that Egypt Jost· every mankind has reached maturity now made himself that he cannot fire with safety mure deadly than a toy pistol that is p.0intcd circumstances we live, the question small people is not the intolerable that it used to be.
ago, for instance, al" battle though we shall rc,quire some armed forces in an independent Guiana, we anna­ certaiillly have ments which independent nations traditionally their throughout history.

dollars psychological problems it is not insurmountable supportable.

Defence is a problem.

It is a It is a and cents problem.

problem; will not need the massive required it in­ nor is and won her war.
Similarly, today on a scale the struggling people - are questions like ourselves - the the people; of educ:1- ians of all sorts get from year to year in differ�nt the world co-operates which would not have seemed pos,iblc before World War II.

Scientists, tors and technic together places.

They examine the questions.

which to people poor people; undeveloped life and death.
- those who can �1fford it - to the Just solution as we are reaching in a period when resort to arms is not a means of settling so we are reaching a period when discussion and the ex­ change of information on a is practised very wide scale for the benefit of peoples all over the world.

questions, our independence and they give, generously of those many problems.
international our independence but, like all the that we face in this country, The Soviet Union and the United in The President: Befiore you pass which you proposr;­ on to the next point.

tn make, I think this is the time at which we should adjourn will now rise for half an hour.

for tea.

The Semi.le from 4.03 p.m. to Sitting suspended 4.30 9,m.
430 p.m. On the resumption Hnhhanl: Mr. President, was suspended, I was to the positive I had referred in a day Senator when the sitting moving from the negative side of our discussion.

to the fact that we are living which is very different existed, that context tion of our defence.

with other aspects aspects - of the position as an indd.

:,endent nation.

say, even 15 years ago.


and in I had dealt with the ques­ I now wish to dc::i.l - the more positive we shal] enjoy from that 'which in co­ with great We find that of America to protect scientists .• In the de­ to end starvation all over the world from the but, at the same ,time, we find es, super bombs, sbel1s of polio.
scale possible, from all over the world States became deadlocked the United Nations General Assembly on Berlin and other issues, bitterness Russian and American scientists operating their own peoples and peoP'1es dreaded scourge on the grandest and agriculh1rists get together vel 01--�ed countri and tanks are the dreaded engines death.
In our little back water, from the cold war, the dreaded engines of death are minute little little germs - -and the inability to pro­ duce enough to keep our people from starvation.

is a place where, behind the terrible facade of armaments sion, all mankind of time in trying which we want to do; that is to say, 10 lift the lowly and raise the general stan­ dard of living.

The world today, therefore, divi­ a great deul viruses-minute ot remote to do the very things nnd political is spending.
As f said, the world is.

politically, more utterly seemingly has ever been before; hand and outside divided than it but, on the other the field of politics, Just a shor:t and I visited in at the United Nations headquarters; North America whlle ago, the Premier and stopped 55 lndepe.ndence For 9TH NOVEMBER, 196] British Guiana 56 enterprise to play its ,rote in the We are.

of the fact that of this country.


conscious private development neve.rtheless, we have been waiting for close on 150 years for private ize this country, to wait another 20 or another 150 years for the job to be done.

And we feel that public tain this end.

enterpr and \v'.!
enterpr and \v'.!

are not prepared should be employed to 3t­ capital ise to industrial­ like that; to increase emoluments Quite recently, the Demerara of wages and salaries anomaffies correcting For instance, $11:2 miJlion, the Government ac­ quired Electric Company, which was private enterprise.

It is now public -enterprise; and I am glad to say that under public management that un­ dertaking was able to carry out a com­ plete review at all levels, where they exis:ted.
we found that cash­ iers taking nearly, in cash every month were paid as little as $165 per mouth.

We have been able, substan­ tially, and I should like to say that these re­ visions were taken without from the employees, and management account the needs of the public who are the own1ers, and the needs of the workers themselves.
Notwithstanding this, we hcive been able in that undertaking to effect very considerable on management and having made :ill these disbursements we have spent Oess on managem�nt than was the case under private enterprise.

The secret prise has a way of creating which defeat income tax.

and that the eml)toyees were able to, take into the needs of the-undertaking, enter­ expenses is very simple.

account, pres.sure savings Private of ex.

::,enditur�, [SENATOR HUBBARD] ob.iective such as ours.
That objective-the side of our independence.

with one of pro­ assistance and help to and there we sat and held discussions mound the table wich men from many nations-men from the East.

men from the West-working together single viding technical countries and places is the positive The scale of the help will.

naturally, greater loped country an under-developed ward of one or other metropoJitan power.
The wotlld position, is propitious in that we need not fear our neighbours as we would have h,,d to fear them years ago.

The world position is propitious in that the help which would have been unavailable long ago is now present, xious to come forward to an indei;endent be to than it can possibly country which is the under-deve· therefore, willing and an­ to oor aid.

be What are our prospects in the eco­ This is one field about which It is not like "A man of 40 in Voltaire's - an argument nomic field?
there is great argument.

the argument Crowns" Jt is an argument charged, go about bringing pass?"

is a question of lively and the question which is full and "how do you these deve:lopments to the subject debate all over the world.

which is em:;:ity.

which_is We have had with us, since our in­ enterprise.
1 as a colony, the system which is that we are standing upon ception commonly known as private remarked just a few days ago that our with the working of that sys­ experience tem has not been a happy one.

I remark­ ed, however, the edge of a new age and there is every indication that .the methods and the aims, today, ago.
We fccl that an enlightened private enterprise, a progressive role, t:iking (he needs of the community intt' account along with the needs of the owners of private important This Government are not the same as they were long is resolved c�pital, playing can play an to allow role in our own development.

4.45 JJ.171.

In an undertaking like that every­ a parent abroad, organi­ so that the purchaser her� face to face with the thing is bought through zation is never brought supplier who receives purchased.
thousands - it goes through a third party a commission That adds up :t.o ten,s ot of dollars at the end of on everything 57 Independence For lJTIJ �--iUVEMBER, 1961 British Gu;a,w 58 out and have money moved in and slopf)ed the year.

Having that, and having put ourselves face to , we are able to cut face with the suppliers all these expenses to recom_;:icnse fairly, management that undertaking ficiency - is at a higher ted before the Government level than exis­ took over.
and still save som our employees - management ething on th'c: bill.

So that efficiency in ef­ adequately.

We feel that it is possible to employ enterprise for private joinLly.

to advantage in fields enterprise to capitalize and to ml our industrial in the crea­ which are not for private enter­ is to go.

We fed also that it public capital tion of industry sufficiently attractive prise, or where private reluctant should be /possible and Government.
undertakings voids; in mind the f act that we have a1 small We are less than 600,000, population.

and to set up manufacturing industnes just to satisfy or heavy industries the needs of a small number of people is a hazardous undertaking.
all these we must bear but against , aluminium We feel that it is first necessary for us to set out to secure markets for things like wood pulp, cellulos-:, plywood and manufactures of forest products, etc., and products then, perhaps, tie up the question of the markets trial equipment so that we will have an interest of the undertaking.

That is one of the lines that we hope to pursue, sure we will succeed.
with the sup;:,ly of the indus­ on both sides in the mail]tcnancc and I am hydro-electricity �bat there is oil a week.

I am resolved , and in I am sul;:,ported whole­ ues, to end our sources for a base and our life.

We perhaps, tJ-1is resolve heartedly by my co][eag dependence on outside to power our industry shall pursue two fields: aod oil.

1 am advised in British find peop:Jc the past, 1 am afraid, have searched we.re people who did not want to find it.
\\'e will employ people who wan:t to find the oil.

May I say, in all chivalry , to my Senator being one of the positive even so limited government.

Guiana.

Our problem is to to find that oil for us.


In the people who for oil in British that she may take that JS 1zs of �dvantag a state as internal self­ friend Guiana Tasker correctly Mr. President, I think that I have , because which Senator I can see already that s;iid enough, not to read a lesson, but to leave a few pointers along the road to I w9u[d just like to ad­ progres.s.
monish those of us who are here ·Jnd others everywhere in this land that the effort, saw as being neces.sary to take us for­ g. I ward,.

will have to be forthcomin have no doubt that it will willingly be rendered our new status ible stimulus to our people to think and act maturely.

It is my regret that the leaders are not as far forward as our people themselves , but time and history write eloquent epitaphs to leaders who lead.
I have no doubt that in British Guiana the rich vo'lume taphs to failing leaders will be further enriched leaders by those now being earned by who read but cannot learn.

has provided of eloquent fail to epi­ an irresist­ of our people, in some instances.

You will readily understand that and create to support .the costs of Inde­ will depend upon the extent our ability pendence to which we are able to expand our wealth right here in economy British Guiana.
We are fully aware of this and our efforts are being directed in this field.

J, for instance, conscious happened tomorro:V outside which prevented everything of �he fact that if anything ou� country he!e, 011 from reachmg m, to shut down would have The President: Honourable is, "That this House Her Majesty's Secretary of State tors, the Question requests for the Colonies when this Courntrv dependent within I shall put the Motion to the Nations."
Senate, those who are in favour say "Aye"; those who are against say "No".

to fix a date during 1962 sha11 become fully in­ -the Commonwealth am fully Sena- of 59 · Independence For 9TH NOVEMBER, J 96 J British Guiana 60 The Senate divided: Ayes 9, ftr'oes I. as follows: 1961, when the Second 14th .November, Reading of the two Billls, which were read for the First time at the last meet­ ing, will be moved Jardim-1.
Ayes Noes Too-Chung Sen;.,tor Tasker Thomas Ramjattan Persaud Khn., Christian Nunes �enator Senator Senator Senator Senator Senator .

:ienator Senator Smator Hubbard-9.

The President: the I declare Motion carried.

ADJOURNMENT AND PENDING BUSINESS HOURS OF SITTING FOR NEXT MEETING The President: The Senate is ad- journed to the 14th November, 3 p.m.

The hours of sitting occasion if necessary, 7.30 p.m. and continue until 10 p.m. Hon.

Members, stand adjourned.

the Senate wiJl now.


1961, at on thail will be 3 p.m. to 5.30 l;:,.m.

and, we shall reassemble at Senator Hubbard: Mr. President, I now move that the Senate be ad­ journed to three o'clock on Tuesday, 4.58 p.m. Senate adjourned accordingly a1 •