Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697744171319.pdf (Guyana)
701 Mernbers Present LEGISLATIVE.

COUNCIL.

Minutes Qitestioned 702 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

District).

The Hon.

C.R.

Jacob, (North Western The Hon.

J. W. Jackson, O.B.E.

W-ednesclay, 5th September, 1945, (Nominated) ·.

The Hon.

T. Lee (Essequibo River. '

The Councia lency the Governor K.,C.M.G., , Sir Gordon Leithem, met at 2 p.m., His Excel­ The Hon.

A. M. Edun (Nominated).

President, in the chair.

The Hon.

V. Roth (Nominated).

\ ,.


PRESENT: The President, His Excellency Sir Gordon James Lethem, the Governor, K.C.M.G.

• The Clerk read prayers.

ACCURACY OF1 MINUTES CHALLENGED Mr. JACOB: In the minutes of the of the Co.uncil it is record-.

last meeting ed: The Hon.

the Colonial Secreta-ry, Mr. "Mr. Jacob spoke to the motion and on conclusion asked leave to withdraw."

W.L.

Heape, C.M.G., The Hon.

the Attorney General, Mr.

I do not think ,that is strictl y correct, F. W. Holder.

(Aoting).
(Aoting).

· sir.

The Hon.

the Colonirul Treasurer, Mr.

The PRESIDENT: What wording E. F. McDavid, C.B.E.

would you prefer?

The Hon.

E. G. Woolford, O.B.E., Mr. JACOB: It should ,read: K.C., (New Amsterdam).

The Hon.

F. J. Seaford, North) .

( Georgetovrn C.B.E.

"Mr. Jacob spoke to the motion and, before to withdraw."

concluding his speech, asked leave The Hon.

J.

A. Luckhoo, K.C.

(Nom­ I think tha;t would be more correct, inated).

sir.

The Hon.
sir.

The Hon.

H. N. Critchlow, (Nomin­ ated)_ The PRESIDENT: chair, therefore Deputy President .

I was not in the I have to ask the The Hon.

M. B. G. Austin, O.B.E.

(Nominated)_ The Hon.

Percy' C. Wight, 0.B.E.

Central)_ (Georgetown The Hon.

J. Gonsalves, South).

(Georgetown O.B.E.

The Hon.

J.

B. Singh, 0.B.E.

(Dem­ erara-Ess equibo).

Mr. WOOLFORD: One's recollection upon absolutely, that the hon.
inti­ can never be depended but I am quite posi,tive Member had concluded his speech, mating that he would speak again at some future tirn.�.

I then told him that he could no,t speak again on the-second reading in Committee.

would ask that the Hansard report of the proceedin any Member can say what his recollec­ tion is, but I have no doubt in my mind.

of the Bi11, but he might do so He then sat down.

I gs be consulted.

Of course The Hon.

Beer Bacchus (Western Berbice).


.. • ,,;;, 1-- 1:ft- l·x ��"' �t· '•,�& ._ .. _.• '""'-�· •a...1. ti!

703 Minutes Questioned5 SEPTEMBER, 1945.

W.l.

Federation 704 The PRESIDENT : The Deputy So it went on.

The Deputy Presi­ opinion his speech, is that 'the hon.

President's Member had c0ncluded but the hon.

Membe,r asks that the words "before concluding his for the woras "on con­ be substituted clusion".

that the minutes ly?.


be amended according­ Is it ithe opinion of Members speech" me on several dent interrupted occa­ sions and I thought it was the best so thing not to continue I said ''I have had enough today," but I did not conclude my speech.

in that strain, Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: My recollec­ but intimated tion also is that the hon.

Member had conclu'ded his speech, that he might speak again at some future date.
He was told by the that he would not Deputy President to speak again on the sec­ be allowed ond reading, that he and he decided would speak again when the Bill was in Committee.· record of the proceedings.

I purt; the question The PRESIDENT: I must take the Members of the Coun­ I was not, I that the are a true and If feeling of tho,se cil who were present.
therefore minutes as circulated faithful Members think that we should amend the minutes "No" and we will proceed as suggested if the majority they will say is in favour • The minutes of the meeting of the held on August 31, 1945, were Council confirmed.

to amend the minutes.

The PRESIDENT: The actual record of the reporters ,reads: COLONIAL SECRlUARY WELCOMED BACK.

"Mr. JACOB: I think, sir, I have had enough to-day, and I am going• to take my seat.

I will speak on the vru:ious clauses in Committee."
The Attorney-General's notes on the 'hon.

Member his speech and intimated -that the debate indicate had concluded that he would speak on the various clauses seems to me thait the record shows that the hon.

Member had concluded his speech.

of the Bill in Committee.

It The PRESIDENT: I would just like to record that we welcome back today the Colonial from his leave Secretary in England which we hope has been and beneficial.
both pleasant The act­ Mr. Laing, '1as ing Colonial come off the Council, but on the Local in which he is immedi­ Government ately concerned; he will continue i::peak for Government Member of the Council.

Sec,retary, Bill, to a although not I Mr. JACOB: Before the point in the debate when I said "I have had enough to-day" written ceedings a Httle higher up on the type­ page of the report of the pro­ it is stated:- I "Mr. JACOB: I can speak until 5 o'clock myself."
on this matter and I won't r-epeat "The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The hon.

Member asked to reserve his right to speak again and sat down."

"Mr. JACOB: I am exceedingly scious of my rights here but I am alway,; courteous thr,; to, the Chair.

Immediately Chair begins to speak it is my duty to take my seat.

When these debates are re11d it will be seen-" con­ ORDER OF THE DAY.

WEST INDIAN FEIDERATION The PRESIDIDNT: I wou'lcl just like· to take the motion the name of the hon.
the and allow a good deal of hour and a half or to say that I propose Rtandi,ug in Pifth Nominated .Member (Mr. Critchlow) td,clay's tin1e-a11 ipel'haps see how the two hours-and debate is going·.

Then· for.

more reasons than one, I would like to adjourn date.

I the debate to a future particularly do not want to putl �-- 705 Motion 706 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

W.l.

Federation as I said today because, meeting, the question at a previous a little the despatrh, some observations question.

made by hon.
made by hon.

:M:emlbers.

I have had not to do with the wording of and I should like to make before putting the in the l'i?
:ht of the speeches And Whereas the inhabitants of the British West Indies and British Guiana al'e' of the same source aI11d/ or sources, and free movement among them will be beneficial to all of them alike; And Whereas Federation of British Gui­ ana with the British West Indies will pro­ vide more and greater facilities e�change of their products aimo}lg them: for One point I sbouild also make clear Member is by his own wish.

asking is that the hon.


Nominated moving this resolution It is not a matter of Government or seeking out any particular to mov•e the resolution, asked that he should be permitted to bring it up and move it himself, because I understand this very question is en- Member but the Member J: gaging the ·attention of his trade union colleagues both in ,the West Indies and in London.

Those were the reasons for his particularly wishing to be the mover of the motion.

I therefore caJll upon the hon.


the Fifth Nominated to move the motion.

Member And Whereas experience the great advantage Court of Appeal to be followed by a Wes� Indian Civil Service, University and General Educa,tion; has proved of the West Indian BE IT RiESOLVED that this Honow·­ Council express its appre­ of the far-sighrted able Legislative ciation of th� Rt.

Honow-a:ble for the Colonies Federation its approval to be pursued and given effect.
of tliese Colonies, in his Memorandum on Secretary of State and declare of the said recommendations recommendations This question of West Indian sir, that I express•ed to Principal Secretary of the Colony motion discussed of State 1938, in England, Whereas the inhabitants name on the Order in which we include British by the British Mr. CRITCHLOW: Sir, I have the honour to move the following sfancli11g in my Paper:_ Federation, Guiana, was Guiana Labour Union and the West Indies Unions since \1926, and in this Colony in 1944, and it was for that reason, the desire to move this motion.
Some people say that the problems of British Guiana in their resolution His Majesty's Colony are entirely for the Colonies dated 7th February, of Trillidacl, Bal'bados ,by (a) The Heads of the Reli­ and signed onies of 'the West Indi:es.
with a single exc2'P­ gious Denominations viz., true, but we must remember tion, by the Local Authorities, The lVIaym· and Town Council of (1) Geooge­ Britain town, (ii) New Amsterdam, Dominions The Village Chairmen's Conference, as miles from one anothe•r with different well as by the Trade Unions and the problems, principal Social Organisations, asked for a Royal Commission and report upon the solved and the British social and economic conmtions in aill of we are all proud was founded.
these Colonies Recommendations and settled Guiana to bring about its ,prosperity ability of the surplus populations Barbados and other British sorely i'n need of reli-ef; That is quite that Great had those s-ame problems.
Policy o£ British and therein of Jamaica, West Indies, of an Imperial plan of development of this from those but those problems The resolution and for the Commission's to ,provide for settlements and Colonies Empire of which sets out the benefits ancl other Col­ different and (iii) were Her were separated between from federation Guiana and the West Indies.
to be derived British First of all it is felt that if these Colon­ ies were united self-government would be achieved than if they remain as separate difficult that they were made to be solved by human beings.

It has been said that British popufation units.

However may seem we believe Guiana has not the necessary much quicker to develo� the country.

WitB problems And Whereas the development of British Guiana in the past has been hindered be­ cause of the paucity of its .population; And Whe!
'2as the Rice, Tim!ber and of the Colony now in Cattle Industries course of development, markets a,broad '1-!,o� ":'1-th.in �or ,produ� on; will need more and much larger .popula­ 707 Motion 5 SEPTEMBER, 1945.

W.l.

Federation 708 we would be able to get popu­ to federation lation from J amaicn and Barbados assist us in that development.

depend wholly and solely on the West Indian Colonies for the export of our rice, cattle, and other produce.
We have had would come members of this community the idea that federation some day.

The great nations tog ?ther in order Why is it that we cannot get together with the West Indies in order to secure better social and economic for this Colony as a whole?

to win the war.

conditions ' have got Some Members are of the opinion in view from this for Bar­ but I that this matter is being rushed, can assure them that it is not my inten­ tion to press for a vote on this motion today.
As a matter of fact I would like to have the debate adjourned of the fact that delegates Colony will shortly be leaving bados to attend the West Indies Labour Conference, at which the ques­ will be tion of West Indian Federation discussed.

happen to be Members of this Council, myself included, ful for an adjournment until the return of those delegates, we may be able to arrive at some decision be helpful motion.
which may in our discussion at the Conference and I would be grate­ of this debate Some of those delegates on this as It is said that a section of the com­ would like an of civil servants munity would like to see the establish­ ment of a West Indies University, while another section between interchange this Colony and the West Indies.

Per­ haps the Chamber of Commerce would welcome a Customs Union.
The whole world is_looking and unity, and I think it would be a good thing if we accepted with the West Indies.

From the politi­ cal standpoint achieve self-government federation alone.

than we woulcl if we stanJ I am sure we would federation forward to co-operation earlier by standard Another important Guiana.

Federation would give they There would what individually stability.
aspect of the question is the economic and social of the West Indies and British these Colonies lack-economic be great saving if such public services as Education were unified.

in this Colony have studied of federation with a view to the improvement of our standard tions.
of Labour the question of living and social condi­ and the Medical Service with the West Indies The leaders I do not propose to speak at any length on the motion, because I know that some Members of this Council study of the ques­ have made a greater tion than I have been able to do, and I would like to hear their views.

I wi11 conclude serious problem and I am asking Members to give it serious consider­ ation before they decide against it.
by saying that it is a Some of our Members and some are of the of feder­ that we have not had sufficient the question members of the community opinion time to discuss ation, but I would remind this Coun­ cil that some 40 years ago the late Hon.

Gideon Murray foresaw that fed­ eration would come to the West Indies and British Guiana.
The question has been discussed from time to time, but some ;people in this Colony do not worry to discuss any matter until it has been decided, and then they say they had not been given time to con­ sider it.

I am certain that many Colonies.

to the third preamble before we enter into matter of this nature with I refer espe­ of the hon.

in which he refers to Mr. A US TIN: I would like to second the hon.
Member's motion but of the air is I think some clearing very necessary a seI"ious the Caribbean cially Member's the rice, timber and cattle industries of this Colony.

There can be little doubt that there is a certain this Colony on the of enmity against part of the West Indian islands, and I would Ii�e with your permission, sir, motion, amount '1·09 Motion LEGlSLATIVE COUNCIL.

W.I.

Federation 710 and of op1mon by expressed the members of the Rice which I propose to Your Excellency Board.
Sir Frank the opinion that to quote an expression Sir Frank Stockdale to communicate the Rice Marketing Stockdale the export price of rice was ridicu­ lously high, and said he had so informed Mar­ keting Board whom he told that they had not a single friend in the that they were only wait­ West Indies; ing for Burma to come on the market to drop them altogether.

that this Colony had been blamed for having taken advantage conditions white."
of war-time to "bleed other Colonies and workable For instance, fact that the popula­ one reas<'11 of the British West proposal.
why federation Indies with British Guiana can be made possible of ithe important tions of these Colonies guage-the English the populations the Christian small percentag Mohammedans, indigenous in the West Indian islands: they still in the interior speak one lan­ language Secondly-, embrace one religion, except for some ·e of Hindus and d l y , and t h i r the are no longer are Guiana.

populations religion, There arc other reasons.


of British is because He also said We have With that frame of mind in the become matter of and the enmity which exists, Islands is it worth while pursuing a this sort before conditions normal?

There can be no doubt that we are not at all popular in the West and the reason is, as .Sir Frank Indies, Stockdale know-that it is felt that we have taken advantage to put up the price of our rice in the various from us.
has stated-and islands he ought to which have to purchase of the war situation My feeling is that very few of.

us really visualized I think we should endeav­ with the West Indies in its in this Colony have federation full sense, and as an old Member of this Council our to get together Indian islands, through or conferences, a federation we have now, the wrong end of the stick.
which might give us, as before we enter into conversation with the West s Gui:rna being a continental within a week by fa:st air Today those distances It is said in some quarters There were times to cover ations and air services telecommm1ic which bl"illg with us into close contact various parts of the world, and one 11ai:ion with another.

when it took 35 days by steamer certain cli:stanccs.

are covered services.

that British unit we must think in terms of coun­ tries J.ike Brazil and Venezuela.
That we have the land may he true .because value, but what about and its potential our population'!

,ve have too meagre a poimlation to be able to do anything worth while in this Colony, be in that position 100 years.

,vith a little between the ,vest Indies and ourselves there wonJcl be opportunities As the mover of .improve our position.

we may enter into the motion mentioned, a Cu:,;toms Union, with possibilities of free trade with the West Indies.
and we may for another 50 or amalgamation for us to With regard to the question of rice the Four Freedoms, Charter, we have ]),.

SINGH: Recently been reading quite a lot about the Atlantic and the New Order, so that this motion on the question of the British West Indies with British with the New Order.
I believe the the to consider moment is opportune and there are question in favour of the some important factors Guiana is, I believe, of federation, in keeping and will be is that Burma lower than British buy that rice Guiana it must be remembered again in British po:si,;ession able to resmnc her export of rice to the West Indies which would if its price is rice, but if we have federation "'est Indies before they purcliase rice from Burma.
In that event there would be some pro­ tection of this Colony to g,row more rice which would find its way into all homes in the ,vest Indies.

:rnd encouragement with the to the JJeOiplc of federation they woulcl think tw;ice 711 Motion 5 SEPTE:MBER, 1945.

W.I.

Fed;eration 712 Another advantage of federation At Colonies, are more or less Civil Service.
members of the Civil Services Colonies to their respective woulcl be a unified present of the various confined with a unified would be transfened to another, ing a wider field for the improvement of their intellectual The result ability.

of the woulcl be a ge11eral iiurprovement Civil Servke in these Colonies.
from one Colony Civil Service and hav­ experience officers gaining but As regards education, of prim­ we may be able with fed­ instead free seconcl!ary ary eclucation eclu­ eration to provide ca tion so as to make the standard of of the people of the vVest intelligence Guiana even higher Indies and British ·vvith a higher than it is at present.

standard corol­ of education lary would be less <:rime and better citi­ zens.
People would think less of commit­ ting some of the heinous crimes whi;ch take place in this Colony at the present time.

the natural Another benefit of federation w10uld which is Medical Service Force for the protec­ in order to com[bat tropical There is also the question of 111:ilitia be a unifiecl essential disease-;;.
a unified tion of the West Indies and British Guiana, and in the event of the Mother in war there Country being engagecl force available would be a military for whern it was despatch wanted.

to any theatre ti.ve expenses be sa verl in administra which could be utilized for the bene­ fit of· the ge11eral taxpayers in the Colonies concerned.

With federa­ The peoples Guiana have p1:ovecl of the West Indies and their loy­ the war.
best, a1�d they ' B1·itish alty to the E)rnpire clul'ing '£hey have given of thei.r desire 110w to be given some kind of responsible government.

tion it i,; 011ly natural that we would have Colonial self-govermnent.

.People of the West Indies and British Guiana are loyal to the British they are proud to be a m1it of the Brit­ and.

for i:-,h Commonwealth that reason they would cherish some form of self-govennnent.
I have given, and many others, I am prepared federation to support the motion for with the West Indies.

For the reasons of Nations, Crown; The r ask before lending the federation their sup­ form.
This to support this resolution service with Barbados a happy augury to of the West I regret I do not find myself in Mr. ROTH: Sir, in spite of Your Excelleucy's remark in Cotmcil on the 20th of last month, that the opening 0.f the telephone might be considered this iaea of federation Indies, a position as it stands and I most earnestly hon.

Members to give it ve1·y careful consideration, ,port to it in its present House is being asked to approYe in pl'inciple, Gui­ of British ana with the West Indies.
On what that course has grounds?

by the Rt.

Hon.

the been suggested Secretary of State for the Colonies?

Surely, bound, willy-nilly, to follow whither the bcll-wether obtain that accretion of population s·o earnestly tained without federation.

Is it in order to obtain a Customs Union?

That too, can be obtained without federation.

Eighty oclcl years ago, the Zollverein._ the Customs Union of the independent German States-was before the unification it to obtain a unification Setvices?

leads.
leads.

Is it in order to we desirn?

That can be ob­ a success long' of Germany.

Is we are not a flock of sheep Surely, that also can be Is it because of the Civil •.

·There would be a Central Govern­ in wherever in the various of having a Governor or High Commis­ Colonies.
A Cen­ it may be ment with perhaps a Governor-G'eneral, and instead each Colony as at p1·esent there might be Lieut-Governors sioners tral Government, set up, would result in great saving in of these Col­ the cost of Administration Barbados as onies.

I woulcl sug·gest the seat of the Central Government.

I make bold to suggest Barbados as the most suitable place for health reas­ ons.

A Central Govemment woulcl be a saviour ish Guiana.
to the West Indies ancl B,rit­ Large sums of money would ..... o:f vilification 713 Motion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

W.I.

Fecleration 714 This to with the arranged without federation.

being so, what are the advantages be gained from federation West Indies?

In my opinion, frankly, none.


All the offered advantages can be obtained without political federa­ tion which, despite the fact that geographically we could lose the whole of the West Indies in a couple of our major rivers, undoubtedly, gate us to a third or fourth place in any such federation.

honestly tion with the West Indies has been to our lasting benefit?

A!lways, it is the West Indies and, as an after­ thought, British Guiana.
Nor must we forget the campaign carried sub rosa it is true, for years this country, com­ ing here.

assert that our past associa­ out by some of the islands, Can anyone to prevent visitors would rele­ against Be it resolved that this Hon.

Legis­ of its crpprecia­ recommenda­ the Colonies in his memo­ of these Col­ lative Council expresses tion of the far-sighted tions of the Rt.

Hon.
Hon.

the Secretary State for randum on Federation onies and declares sa..id recommendations in regard to unified West Indian and Guianese ser­ vices, but does not consider it in the best interests to federate politically Indies.

its approval of th;!

with the West of British Guiana Mr. WOOLFORD: I beg to second that amendment.

Dr. SINGH: Can I speak on that amendment, sir?

The PRESIDENT: Yes; I think you can.

Dr. SINGH: What I wish to say ' of and than that the British Guiana, another.
let us feder­ of British developed For instance, Fedemted West In­ No, sir, British not north and insular.

we are not in the like Trinidad are ahead of are greater and of an nature from those of The future of ?-do you realise people comprise 80 per cent.
Guiana is that although West Indies proper, Jamaica, those colonies us and there should be no feeling that any kind of reform brought forward ·would result in putting one set people against I know of a case in which someone was asked: are you going to support federation coloured of.

the ;population and the West Indies and that they would rule if they got federation?
do not want to say more, but it seems to me that there are certain people at the top who want to rule and keep others in subjection and that these are the people who are opposed tion of these colonies.

ing for responsible and I feel that federation us nearer to it.

as we are trying to do, to the full extent of her vast natural resources, will prove herself I.an entity of greater economic importance, can any possible , her dies.

With few exceptions problems entirely different the islands.
Guiana lies to the south and the east ---eontinental, If we must be federated, ate into Dutch and French Guiana and thus form a United States of Guiana with close on 200,000 square miles in forest and mineral resources,-the natural area of the Rio Negro.

Already we are known as the Land of the Six Peoples; let us be the Land of the Eight Peoples.

This is no wild dream.


Differences of language unsurmountable HeITvetic oldest and most successful federation of three different alities of Switzerland,-the working nation­ We arn pray­ government, sir, would bring this motion, in .

putting it forward, asked that very careful be given to it.

Now, sir, we have been considering this question.

considerable been under discussion am still trying to find out what are we to gain by federation.
It seems to amendment the Resolution:- I beg to move the following Mr. SEAFORD: The hon.

mover of obstacle.

Witness number of years.

It has known to the world.

outlet to the great to the resolve since 1926 and I, Republic northern to federa­ need form no clause of rich for a the I consideration 715 Motion 5 SEPTEMBER, 1945.

W.J.

Federation 716 · I would like to get some more informa­ deci­ tion before coming to any definite sion.
In paragraph the Seoretary 3 of the despatch, of State says: dif- tradition that the existing of this area the Co,Ionies , social organ­ com­ 3. .

........... !
........... !

recognise between ferences in their historical isation, and political bined with the administrative ence which would arise from the present gra,ve <l1fficulties make it impracticable a.tiely organisation development, to set up immecli- of communication, inconveni­ a federal would • " ............... was I -feel, sir, that this despatch to sound out our views merely intended as to whether federation or not and how the people of the colony co111-;ider the proposal.
paragraph State goes on to say: In the same (3), the Secretary of is practicable Is our Government and before I say ''yea" or would these federated Guiana may lose by with the West Indian have ?

Are they going to be states such as we have _in or are we going to have one me that British federation colonies "nay'' to the motion I should like to know what is going to happen to us and to our local Government in case of federation.

to remain or would we lose it?


If we are to Jose it, then what type of Government colonies fe<leral Australia, Governor-General Secretary in each colony?

In that case, how would each colony be repre­ sented?

Is it going to be like the House of Parliament, to siL separately the present that there should be a central ment, then what representation each colony have?

Is lhe representa­ tion going to be based on the popula­ tion or on the size of the colony?
What is going to happen to our Customs duties and our Excise duties?

Is federation reduce our cost of Jiving?

as we are doing at moment?

If it is intended with just a Colonial Govern­ would going to increase or are we going or I consider " ........... should be the development that the aim of British in tlie Caribbean policy eration the balance of opinion onies is in fa.vour the de,velopment strat,ively it aclmini of fed­ .ut such time as in the various Col­ of a change, and when ,p11acticable."
of eommuniications makes We have in this colony a Bill of or "nay" it exists.

That Entry tax and this is the only colony in these pa'l'ts where tax brings us about half a million dol­ lars a year, and I would ahio like to know whciher it is going to remain or be taken off.

In other words, I would like to know a lot more than what has before I say "yea'' been stated, to this resolution.
I notice that one of the newspapers has asked how many of the elected Members their constituencies, means of finding people on lhe subject.

one have not consulted I am not in a position tain questions that will very probably be put to me.

Until I am in a position to say what federation would mean, I cannot support the resolution therefore from the Sec­ I have read the despatch retary of State for the Colonies on the question, stated, out the views of the Well, sir, I for going to move an amendment.
but, as I have already have consulted as that is the best to answer cer• anybody, because and am with the neigh­ would make federa­ Now, sir, we have a long way to go in before our this Colony, I am afraid, means of communication bouring Colonies tion practicable.

ed, we may have to attend meetings other Colonies and in that case it would be necessary and air communication.

of State goes on, in the same paragraph (.3) to say: As I have already stat­ in sea The Secretary to have well-established ....
The ultimate aiim of any feclern.tion would be full But it will no doubt within the Brit­ self-.gov<>rnment which may ibe estaJblished internal ish Commonwealth.

be generally stability from economic self-sufficiency) essentia ernment reality l accompaniment and that the latter without the former."
app1,ecia-ted (which is ,of ,course very different tha-t financial of full self-gov­ cannot be a is an Does that mean, sir, that if federation comes into being next year or in the very near future, and Welfare Fund would cease to exist and come to an end?

I am asking these the Development �.

� 717 Motion 7.::&: -i-•� -��ll�- .,,.,-� .fl.

!, • ,.-, (.:.

$"1,.;� .,�, =s,::=--r-r ..,' � LEGlSLATIVE COUNCIL.

W.l.

Federation 718 certain I am not clear on the out by the hon.
the I think we all agree with h because The hon.

Member for Dem­ i Lio rnentionecl that would accrue from fed­ 0 im questions subject.

era ra-E'..�:sequ advantages eration.

but, as pointed Seventh Nominated Member (Mr. Roth), those withou,t l'efer also to the q11estio11 chase of rice from Burma and the desir­ for our rice ability industry, toms Union is necessary in the whole of the protection area .

advantages federation.

I should like to of the pur­ here.


I feel, sir, that a Cus­ could be gained protection Caribbean of getting for giving us I think fo,11 consid­ such gentleman beTore we decide on it.

We was not given to the position in various and that it should be Colonies.

again, however, Colonies and that if pos­ Union in these Colonies sible we should set up a Commission of It some kind to go into the question.
in this Coun­ been discussed has already cil, sir, but unfortunately, eration of some of the smaller it should be discussed now that conditions have improved discussed know that-an Economic Adviser is and that coming to the Colony shortly another the Development at their headquarters isation dos.

I think that if these gentlemen get together, up some scheme for a Customs Union oetween the West Indian islands and this Colony.
'l'hat tain -facts to work on and when we how we may know our be affected-I for us to consider federation.

the following clause of the motion:- position-exactly think it would be time the question and Welfare organ­ in Barba­ beg to move to the resolve I therefore amendment they would be able to put would give us cer­ is attached to of The hon.

Member for Demerara-Esse­ ,but I I was rather education education, out that with fed­ is concerned.
of federation we �hould also get free to hear the views of certain there might come the possibil­ quibo also pointed eration it.v of free secondary am afraid I am unable to follow his point of view.

I do not see why if we get federation, I may mention education.
secondary are told so often that Jamaica which we here is ahead of this Colony has not for its even got compulsory so I do not think Brit­ primary schools, behind in so far ish Guiana is lagging as education surprised other Members in support and I am afraid I cannot share them.

I feel that we in British stand on our own legs and remain a a loyal Colony at British that.

I feel, sir, that we are quite ignorant of the advantages advantages federation hon.
the Colonial 'Dreasurer connexion apply equally he pointed mit himself "without information ered carefully, disadvantages on problems tion."
sufficiently full on the points to be consid­ on the advantages and that would result and solu­ or the dis­ that would accrue from and that the words of the used in would with another ·subject, out that he could not com­ that would require to the present Colony-and Guiana should one, when I think that before we deal with this larger question first of all try to establish we should a Customs of federation, .
express "BE IT RESOLVED tbart this Honour­ its appre­ Council able Legislative dation of the views d the Rt.

Hon.

the in his of State for the Colonies Secretary and recommends that a Memorandum of this Council together with Committee bodies in of the leading representartives the ques­ the Cofony be set up to ,consider tion of West lnd�an Federaition and to make recommendations thereon."

l\fr.

PEER BACCHUS seconded.


Mr. EDUN: Sir, I have listener1 to the mover and the seconcler :-rncl have not properly carefully of this motion and I think that they :1re lialf-heartccl mncle 11p their minds.

?11:y view is tliat 11Jis whole question to be shelved and: consitlerecl :,-ears !Jook written tlrnt it was the ])Olicy Government to overhaul 1naehi11e1T war.

I think I lrnw writer, ought of federation a few recently, a who saicl after every to agree with that tl1at was <lone after the hence.
I was reading, by an American in tl,e Colonies of the British l.Jcc.

:ause its -polit\cal 719 Motion 5 SEPTEMBER., 1945.

W.I.

Federation 720 it would be found that of thi.s Colony ·was changed, first World War.

It was in the year lf)2S_a few years after the encl of the first Worlcl 1:Var_that the Con­ stitution and if one could look back into the pages of history the same policy was macle applicable throughout the BritiEh Colonies.

Previous ha-cl a Constitution in itself.


happened the people, matters were dealt with by the Court of Policy.

It was the Combined the power but, strange we received on the 11olicy ment ought to govern.
to the yea1· 192S, this Colony w'hich )Vas �mique The power of the purse in the year 1928 was based Govern­ of the purse within its hands to have been in the hands of while legislative that the British Court which had enough, the Constitution ...c with District we ought first to be a free people because before we think of federation.

We ent first, ought to have self-governm beginning Councils, to County Councils, Council Legislative exactly what the Colonies paragraph then and then to the and so on.
That is of State for the Secretary intended 6 of his despatch when he said in that: A 6 ...... "I attach particular importance cormcils of village to the development ·work on the lines already and community recommended, by the Comptroller his\ 'Social W•elfare Adviser, towards bility."

the growth of social responsi­ a9 a step and ) Colony.
bankrupt I was lookiug for the spending Now, sir, is it that the growth of is the aim of the responsibility t towards the war, but after having on in ,vhich the people were of this Colony in accordance for this new entanglement l>e thls entanglement_t)Lis set out in the but in the course I have read somethiug of the federation also?
Between 192'8 ancl 1943 the GoYemment handled the Governmen responsi­ Why not 11olitical very far into the of into whiclt is being brought so soon after the encl reasons federation these Coloniet:i of another worl(l writer has 1·ead what this American I think the said, I have seen the light.

policy now is that instead of widening on the the scope for self-government part of the British Colonies, there si10nld idea of frustration.
of the history the United States of America and I am of the opinion that federation ought to be for free peoples.

When I say '·free peoples'' I mean people with in whi,th they are the a Cont:ltitution in a ruling factors.

I do not believe policy of fetlera If this tion of slave,;.

policy is carded on, then I think this of nations in great Commonwealth which all peoples take pride_ancl infinite be soon sections, divcled section of free peoples Crown Colonies.
would be inimi,cal the Colonies tl1e poli.cy duty of every ho11.

1\fember Council to oppose it strenuously, p1·ille into two being a federation of and the other a federation Such a state of affairs to the interest an-cl liaving seen social Bi-itish Colonies?

bility Tiritish affairs with the Constitution Order in Council, of those 15 years this Colony was lumdeu tight into the lap of the British 'l'reasury_a Prior to 1!
)2S this Colony had a unique Constituti responsible but from 192S to 1943 we have had the Government goyerning the whole situation.

from one encl of the country to the other was so overwhelming Royal Colllllliss'ion into the affairs enquire during those 15 years, res:ulting in a change of the Constitution in l!H3.

·we are not yet a self-governing neither any of the other British islands.

nothing but a federation in itself Colonies, which to abhor, becau�c slaves a federated Government.
say that this direction Secretary a very premature unit, or nor Barbados, ·west Indian That means that we woulcl be of Crown is something no set of economic concer11er1 in this new light, at that_will clfferent and bungling· An upheaval of State for the Colonies from the is it is the of this one, ancl I _agree with would be capable was appointed that a to is Trinidad of the Colony of carrying Therefore of money, on I one an of of 721 Motion LEGISLATIVl!

; COUNCIL.

W.I.
; COUNCIL.

W.I.

Federation 722 which suggest the two amendments that this matter should be examined fully in the light of experience gainecl in self-government.

I agree ·with tlie hon.

the Seventh of itself, the slaves We initiative.

it will be found that because those thiug:s are go of the substance Member (l\ir.
Hoth) when .Sumrnated he said that all these wondei-ful ideas about Customs Union and free trade without political could be achiev0cl fe-tle1·ation, the result of business should not let the wider vision of this great country ex1nrnding continental in order to grasp at the shadow of with the West Indies.

fede1·atio11 As I of the examine the whole framework of State from the Secretai-y despatch I see that we ·would gain nothing In the history tangible by federation.
of this country after slave labour on the plantations had come to its majority were given their freedom.

Attempts were made to encourage to come to this Colony-.

from Jamaica, Trinidad, not as producers districts word) as a parasitical living doing no productive people who would help to increase our or a type of people 1ike the, production Syrians?

The Syrians are excellent and peaceful simply traders living of the produdng elements You will not firicl them on population.

su.gar.
su.gar.

JJrod1�cing sugar estates do not plant rice or rear cattle.

want to flood this country type of l)eople quickly in the City and in the towns and work.

Do we want 'rlie:)� If we with that to settle but (I do not want to use the West Indians People came off the substance as we �an to ViTest let us open the door as and Barba.dos, cftizens, commµnity in the rural but they are Indians.
of our \' � would Ali-eauy g·oods from the United The disaclvantages those who would come here, especially who would be p1·oductive and not parasitical.

IJe greater than any advautages we would get from fedcrntion with the the vYest Ind.ies West Indies.
and British Guiana ai-e importjng manufactured Kingdom, Canada, and the U.S.A at prices based on the higher standard of living in those countries, while we are exporting our products-sugar, lmuxite, rum, balata, gol-d and diamonds _at prices based on a low standard of living, overwhelmingly against we llave been drained in this way, and until we achieve self­ our government economy we should not think about federation.

in order to stabilize so that the balance is of our substance us.
For years His l\:Iajesty's Secrebry of State this the La/Jour Ad­ is Yery eager to know a move of this kind, which is short of an for the Colonies opinion on of p�1blic the reaction matter.
has heard the Your Excellency Yiews of those Members who have and the motion, spoken so far against ldo not know whether you have taken cognizance of the temper of the Press -the Daily Argosy and the Giiiana Graphic this morning, voca.te on Sunday, and the Peasantry, all showing the trend of public opinion against considered nothing entanglement, public attention our immediate and irrigation to be drawn into If we allow ourselves this entanglement we will go straight back into the hands of the Imperial Treasury, and gone would be the great ideal of self.government.
Nominated gested that we ought to think of feder­ of Dutch ation with our sister and French Guia,na.

we are in design.

bec�use we are continental The hon.

Member, Mr. Roth, sug­ and make us forget problems of drainage economy.

Colonies Sisters and a balanced something to attract needs pop�1lation This country but it needs the right type of people.

We ;want J)eople who iwoulcl :be :-i.blei to sense the possibilities zation of our potentialities.

Europeans settle if they would come here and clow.11.
Let us have ahl the people Let us have of the industi-iali­ Mr. ROTH: I rise to a point of correction.

"sister Dutch neighbours."

I did not use the words I said "French and Colonies."

- 723 Motion 5 SEP'l'EMBER, 1945.

W.1.

Federation 124 Mr. EDUN: That is my own If the West Indian islands in the plan to let them have it.

Guiana happens to be one of for air traffic in the What would federation dollars?

We would we would the day will come in that term.

Perhaps when we may cast our glances direction.


mean when we consider spend 180 million be just a mere figurehead; have to go to the Governor-General Barbados.

want federation British the highways future, should swop that future for the mere name of federation.

As the hon.

Nominated said, we could put the West Indian islands We are tackling coastlands a practic,al opment of the interior.
things would be held over at the whim and caprice General the problem of our and you, sir, have laid out programme for the devel­ All those of perhaps the Governor­ Member, Mr. Roth, has and it is suggested of our rivers.

in the expanse in Barbados.

that we As a Guianese I take pride in this We have coming I remember Bustamante speak well about came here and made of movement between and it makes me feel proud to I think our industrialists country, hear other Guianese it.
We are being offered free move­ of this ment .among the inhabitants Colony and the West Indies.

Is there any restriction the people of these Colonies?

seen people from those islands here by the thousands.

that Barbadians and we a row on the sugar estates, bad to send them away.

Do we want gang'!

Jamaicans-the (laughter).

would fear that.

I honestly that the destiny south.


Vve want to go down there on a big continental With an Administrator of Your Excellency's • type, and with self-government in our hands what could we not do?

We could do a lot for this Colony and tell the West Indian islands: very good friends, together among yourselves.

If you want federation, have it.

We will be your best friends and exchange products take your gasolene and neighbours with you.
We will and give you our "We can be but you keep of this country lies railw,ay.

believe be on a reciprocal rice, but it must basis.

You cannot expect to get our rate while you sell us rice at a cheap your gasolene at a high rate."

'1 sequence of Nations of status.

first.

of the The problem is such a huge one it For that mat­ with Canada, of of units.

Whenever we stop talking about that we should now ,and defer it until in this Council we can examine it later.

I agree with the hon.


mover of the motion that the trade unions are thinking about fed­ It was mooted and discussed eration.

in years gone by, but surely the trade unions did not want a federation w,anted a federation slaves.

They , self-governing within the British have federation there should Commonwealth be equality ter we might federate but let us be self-governing That is the logical whole Caribbean problem.

Why should we be a homogeneous mass ruled from Downing Street?
We should postpone sion and tell the Secretary that this despatch it has a fair amount of reading mat­ ter and it reads very well, but that until we cannot think of federation our Constitution democratic is a self-governing lency should be the man at the top goal, us on to that greater helping vision of Guiana.

You that greater and it has it so often have preached that every contagious become so is singing the song of Guianese great Guiana.
Must we swop that vision just for the entanglement of federation with the West Indies?

lines and this Legislature one.

Your Excel­ this discus­ of State is a very good one: is founded on more Mr. JACOB: I must express I do not know how long to the after listening after­ I have heard this disappointment six speeches noon which la1Sted about an hour and a quarter.
to allow us to Your Excellency debate the motion, but I think we should finish off the motion today wha�ever t.Qe result is, whether it is earned or not, and proceed with the business on the Order Paper.

To s�y that the motion has not been given proposes -------- 725 Motion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

W.l.

Federation 726 • it is to say something The publicity to enable hon.

Mem­ sufficient bers to consider that is not strictly correct.
motion was on last week's Order Paper, and now that it is before us I think the Council the question ·do not know how many more Members will speak on it, but 1 think it should be debated and concluded propose to say at the outset that I am wholly in favour of this motion, and I trust it will be carried.

ought to decide on one way or another.

today.

I I I agree with the principles that now to achieve by the Rt.

Hon.

of State for the Colonies, have been.


enunciated tr.e Secretary but I cannot say that I agree with the methoas that have been adopted, or· are being adopted the end in view.

It is a pity the hon.

mover did not consult his colleagues in this Council pefore he tabled his motion.

I d0 not know that he consulted body at all.

I do not like its phrase­ o'.ogy, but that does not matter.

The resolutions expresses what I have in mind, and therefore propose to support the motion.
The history of federation is .a long one, as the mover has said, but I think the matter came to a head when the Royal Commission submitted paragraph this Colony and their recommendations.

In 27 they state: to a large extent visited any­ I 27.Political federation is not of itself te means of meeting the needs of the West Indies.

Nev­ an appropria pressing ertheless, should .be dir,ected.

it is the end to which policy to be published long about it.
I have in my posses­ sion a return ordered by the House of Commons, dated 2nd November, 1938.

I think the imme­ diate object in view, which the Secre­ tary of State stresses, �s-federation of the Bahamas, Barbados, British Guiana, Jamaica, and Trinidad.
I think those are the five Colonies being considered, .as the Leeward and Wind­ ward Islands According tions of those five Colonies Bahamas, 66,908; British Guiana, 337,039; 1,102,528; 456,006, The populations of the two Colonies already federated Islands, Islands, 'l'hese figures mated populations are: Leeward and the Windward a total of 36B,928.
are: 190,939; Jamaica, 135,797, 233;131, to this return the popula­ are based on the esti­ Barbados, Trinidad and Tobago, making a total of 2,203,420. are already federated.

in 1937.

We or What are nationality?

towards?

What would be with Brazil or other countries Member (Mr. Roth) who colonist, and by Now, sir, these five Colonies have people-let tod:ay.

a population of 2¼ million us say they have 3 millions have been told by the hon.
the Seventh Nominated is an experienced others, that this Colony_ should feder­ ate with French and Dutch Guiana, with Brazil and Venezuela.

we heading the effect of federating and Venezuela, different to isolate British Guiana with its 400,000 people from the other British Colonies in these parts and just keep on saying that we have a continental destiny?

What are we going to do y with our 90,000 sq.

miles of territor when we have only 400,000 people?

As stated by the hon.


Member for Demerara-Essequ�bo, certain influ­ ences are at work to prevent this thing-this Indian Colonies.

here, the Guiana Graphic date and dealing with the subject Federation of the West I have in my hand of today's of I federation Are we going it states: of If the last speaker would study those few words he would agree and support this motion.
No one will say that political federation all we want, or the self-government we desire, but it is the means to that end, and unless these Colonies federated Heaven knows what would happen.

would give us are I wonder how many hon.

Mem­ bers have studied the population figures.

I propose to give those figures, but I am not going to be too "What does British gain by federation Precisely nothing.''

Guiana stand to with th·e West Indies7 727 Motion 5 SEPTEMBER, 728 1945.

W.I.
W.I.

Federation by the big vested interests We know this newspaper.

I have that it is owned and already stated controlled -sugar.

Maybe, that will be dis­ puted but the fact remains.

I have in my hand also the Daily Argosy of today's same thing.

It says:- date and it says practically the is acting " ... whether Mr. Critchlow on behalf of Gov,ernment or on his o,wn be­ half makes no difference considered the federation West Indies Bri�ish steip".
retrograde to our well that opinion of this Colony with the and irl'evocable will be a damnably federation.

against all three of the leading in the Colony against We find, therefore, newspapers federation.

Mr. SEAFORD: To a point of sir, I have been informed correction, that the hon.

Member for North West­ ern District est in the newspaper Graphic.

inter­ that I have not got the slightest in that newspaper.
est whatever stated that I have an inter­ ;, J the Guiana called I would like to inform him Mr. JACOB: I understand the statement.

Then, the article goes on to say:­ Mr. SEAFORD: Thank you.

"This Colony stands to derive :from a closer more far­ benefits association commercial reaching with Brazil and even cultural than it does and Venezuela, from any system of rederation with Trini­ dad, Barbados and the remaining West Indian Colonies, not excluding for example, Jamaica."

in British hon.
in British hon.

Member newspaper to be one of the leading, This i,s the kind of advice the public gets from the Daily Argosy-a paper reputed if not the leading Guiana and of which one hon.

Mem­ ber of this Council-the for Central the prin­ Georgetown-is cipal owner.

The hon.

Member for member of the Western Essequi•bo-a Executive Council-also has some in this newspaper, interest while another Coun­ Member of the Execu.tive in the Guiana cil has an interest Graphic, that member being the hon.
Member for Georgetown North.

Mr. JACOB: The hon.

Member by the Secretary North says he has no whatever in the Giiiana each other I was saying that for Georgetown interest Grav hie.

We understand Your Excellency.

all of these newspapers the proposal for the Colonies, should be federated Indian Colonies.

always been accustomed spade a spade; it a shovel because the same work.
The Daily Argosy goes on to say:- to calling some people might call with the West Well, sir, I have are against of State Guiana that British a it does practically "So far as we are aware, in not a single sought subject a mandate case has a representative on this important from his con­ stituents."

and Official Members are concerned, their own views or the views they express of Government?

And :in so far as Nominated will Mr. PERCY WIGHT: I rise to a point of correction.

lutely misleading the hon.


Member for Western Esse­ quibo has an interest Argosy.

It is absolutely It is an abso­ to say that in the Daily untrue.

statement "It seems to us that in the light of this any decision which is reached situation, cannot be accepted the community.

stances purpose from as a mandate And in these circum­ we cannot see what beneficial will be served by the debate.

s,o.

Mr. JAiC0B: I understood George­ The hon.


Member for Central town, however, holds the largest :in the Daily Argosy.

material in the Daily Chronicle He is interested too if my inform,ation that newspaper is correct, is ;:1lso definitely interest and "Certainly, the result of the division when taken cannot be forwarded to the Colonial Office as the majority of the people of the Colony. "
decision Well, sir I have not consulted my constituency tion of f�deration, on this ques­ but I consultecl recently ff' .... 729 Motion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

W.J.
W.J.

Federation 730 the work­ a good the labour by another a labour confer­ agreed to what for constitution On account of these the West India Royal made the statement I read 27 of ago, in paragraph them years and years ago and, best of all, I was able to convince many people not only in my own con­ but in other parts of the stituency particularly Colony-and by federation leaders-that ing people of this Colony would be better off.

In 19·38, the hon.
In 19·38, the hon.

mover of this motion, accompanied labour leader and myself, went to to -attend Trinidad ence and we formally was called a federal these Colonies.

representations, Commission a few minutes their recommendations.

federal Trinidad, House of Assembly Legislative of this Council-your -were present, of approved all the West Indian Colonies.
There­ fore, I would like to say that while the Daily Argosy might be correct saying that Members of this Council have not consulted on this motion, and members in labour organisations have been consulted, by -a large majority, federation.

Members of the Barbados and the Trinidad humble servant and the three Colonies and the Colony, is in favour of the scheme of federation Council, and one Member constitution When this in was advocated in their constituencies their representatives cerned.
I think that answers the stand being taken by the three daily newspapers bers of this Council.
and by one or two Mem­ Now, sir, I do not mind saying that I do not like the motion as it is , the second pre­ worded, amble states:- for instance "AND WHE.REAS the development of Guika in the past has be1en hind­ of the paucity of its popula• British ered because tion;" I would have liked to see the words at the in British Fortunately, of State for does -not change his by the Government" It is not "and non-planning added to this pre-amble.

only the paucity of population that developmen�.


has hindered Guiana, out the··.

fact that there has been no planning.

we have some kin:d of planning moment and·•I\i-hink it will be pursued.

the·-Secretary Providing the Colonies views and upset our plans, I think British federation nies.

We will get the surplus tion of 'Barbados, places, for Jamaicans or for Barbadians States, where else, if the questions tion and wages could be se-ttled.
And, with the new outlook Guiana ought to bP able to pay proper wages to all workers.

third pre-amble says:- Guiana is going to benefit by with the West Indian Colo­ popula­ Jamaica and other and it will not be necessary to go any­ of popula­ to go to the United As regards the of the motion which I have, British in and be There is to be a conference a meeting in rff44.

Tlie mover of this of federation will again.

I also have a .
I also have a .

;recol­ the question Barbados sometime this month this question discussed lection that we discussed in the Town Hall here, in 1944 when it was approved�at February, motion, the hon.

Member for Esse­ quibo River and myself are hoping to visft Barbados the people at the Conference there.
We ,all agree that this question of federation and approved, but to say that it has not been discussed sations is definitely no dissentient voice, as the labour organisations would be to say something that untrne.
There has been as far whatever, in order to represent should be discussed by the labour organi­ are con- to be held "AND WHEREAS the Rice, Timber and of the Colony no,w in Industries Cattle course of development, markets tion within for production;" abroad and mu�h la-rger will need move popula­ I am surprised that the drafts­ and other indus­ man qf this motion did not include gold, sugar, bauxite tries as being in need of development.
I should certainly production bringing direction, like to see gold double ,or treble itself, in that greater prosperity like and � should certainly 731 ]1otion 5 SEPTEMBER, 1945.

W.I.Federation 732 of' plots and selling will startle but I would like people with a half a to see this Colony producing Per­ tons of sugar annually.

million haps this statement some of my hon.

friends, to see the working greater hand in.

the production sugar.


I want to see a co-operative would system whereby cane-farming and I be e}..i;ended among the villagers want to see the surplus of population Barbados coming here and planting 5 or 10-acre to the sugar factories.

the sugar estates coll'trol manufacture the sugar industry developed, think it would be a great thing for the West Indies and the British Empire as a whole.

I want to see the bauxite industry and I want to see minor industries improved.
300,000 for export, the present to labour as it suits them for the of sugar.

I want to see and not 20,000 tons as at time.· I do not think should be allowed I want to see 200,000 or tons of rice produced developed annually further the cane as I I think the time is a1so ripe when system of Cus­ I do not know what a unified West Indian we should have a unified toms tariffs, Civil Service and such other things.

Are we to leave all these things alone and merely say that we have a contin­ ental destiny?
those word•s me1an.

I am a practical man and I do not want to think of British or a continental little or no progress-when only three or four people to the square mile, and things like that.

The last pre-amble Guiana as a continental country, in the motion reads:- when there is we have nation of 1 from the Mention has been made by one or.

two hon.
two hon.

Members of the very excel­ Secretary lent despatch State for the Colonies on this question of federation.· Now, sir, I have criti­ criticised cised-and the past, the attitude of State for the Colonies, time comes to give him some praise I think it is my duty to do so.

I think this is an excellent principles pmctical done.

Let me examine the document � for a moment.


He begins by saying:- are sound and it is only the thing that he has left to be most strongly-in of the Secretary but when the despatch-the "I have recently been considering the policy in rela­ of the Caribbean area as a whole.
The d,eclai·ecl Policy is to quicken the progress aim question of constitutional tion to ·the Colonies considered of British of all Colonial mate goal of self-government this opportunity aim in relation of re -affirming to the Caribbean .peoples towards the ulti­ and I take 4) are·a."

that basic I Now, sir, if the Secretary of State is sincere in this what more do we want?

I for the Colonies expression, should like to see self-government period.
It is not within a specified good enough to say "quicken the progress and leave it there.

I should like to hear that self-government would become ia 10 years from today.
In the reality second paragraph the Secretary states:- i of the despatch, of all Colonial peoples'' for the Colonies of Sta',te " .. .Indeed the trend of post-war devel­ opment, under the stimulus of greatly improved air communications, show a mark,ed impulse towards a ...... political and other association may well • closer " "AND WHEREAS experience has proved the great advantage of the West Indian Court of Appea,l to be followed Indian Civil Service, eral ,education;" by a West and Gen­ University I want Ito see a unified Soci;al Welfare Service, and not only a Court of Appeal and so on.
I want to see all these se·rvices extended fined to a particular Indies.

These are the means whereby and not Guiana will progress British remain backward as she has done in the past.

part of the West and not con­ Now, sir, the hon.

Member for North quoted certain pas­ but did not which deals with question Georgetown sages from this despatch, quote the beginning the very important munication.

graph which is somewhat conflicting with the second.
It is clear that when this despatch Europe was still going •On; but the war and it is time that we is now finished of draw the attention He quoted the third para­ of the Secretary was written 1the war in of com­ 733 Motion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

W.l.

Fede1·ation 734 ence, as ,circumstances development of joint West Indian services, and through the organi­ joint conferences, under the Comptroller established sation for Development and Welfare."
by the permit, Now, sir, it is clear from these Customs tariffs, mar­ Government of unified and conferences.

words that the Imperial favours the development West Indian services I think there should be a unified Administration kets and soci�l and other services.

Then and only then would we make some in British Guiana.

I think progress of the Members of this the majority would agree that we have been Council officers to this Colony with bringing little or no Wes,t Indian experience.
They have to come and learn and in most cases they do not learn the right thing or prove to be the right type of people.

I say that very definitely and very emphatically administrative tunity of learning through the Executive probably certain Members of this Council.
the Attorney­ Colonial Secretary, Treasurer and the Colonial General, officers of that type; they have no one to consult and certain I base my remarks on 25 years of study as well of of the work of this Council Council, and I that of the Executive is am satisfied not the best.

Let us examine the per­ sonnel of the Executive -anything Council and Let us take for instance, Members of this Council.

.

that the atmosphere but the Executive officers have no oppor­ because certain Council.
Council except , the ; to this despatch State for the Colonies and tell him we desire federation jtherwise the people would not be satisfied.

That is the attitude I am adopting this Legislature in the second paragraph the Secretary went on to say:- and that is the policy l think of State for the Colonies should put into effect.

of the despatch, :t.1.


therefore, that of developing " ..... it important, pw-pose institutions should r consider the moz,e immediate self-governing Caribbean ual British in view the larger as being the end to which, in foderation, the view of the Royal Commission, should be directed."

Colonies project keep in the individ­ of their politica!

policy It is quite clear from this despatch of State for the had in mind the recommenda­ that the Secretary Colonies tions .
)f the West India Royal Commis­ sion which, in a few words, state exactly what is wanted.

The hon.

membn for Georgetown of paragraph one portion ,patch, but I am going to quote another portion North quoted 3 of the des­ which says:- " ...... which quarters for in spite· of the desire in certain Moreover, has been expressed a W-est Indian federation, opinion generally public rea-cly to accept His Majesty's to enforce wishes of any large section community."
it may be that would not be cons.titu.tion and would not wish against such constitution th<!

of the a federal Government ,, � and I stated, that a large Now, sir, I am satisfied in the West of the community section Indies is in favour of federation challenge · any hon.

Member of this to the Council to make a statement and back it up with facts.
As contrary ' I have already the question was of the considered working people in Trinidad, Guiana, and British a single voice against ·would be said that the capitalist was not represented conferences, a very small minority.

of the despatch, for the Colonies and there was not it.
Perhaps it group at any of these of State the .Secretary states:- but that group represent In paragraph by representatives Barbados s 4 "-.. ,.In particular use possible should be made of every unifying the fullest infl.u- The PRESIDENT: Is this rea;lly related to fedemtion?

I am not Mr. JACOB: I think so, sir.

We the services.
We the services.

are considering going to be too pungent in my criti­ cism; I am just going to examine We have not the Executive really got representatives of the Col­ ony or of the people in the Executive Council.

the approval for the Colonies, of the Secretary advisers- Your Excellency Council.

selects, with of Stat� 735 Motion LEGISLATJ:VE COUNCIL.

W.l.

Federation 736 The PRESIDENT: I really think touch­ you should go on to something ing the motion.
to get it finished You said you wanted as fast as possible.

Mr. JACOB: One miJ;1,,1te, sir; one Council we have cer­ not to be and so I minute on�y.

I am just showing that on the Executive t::t in people who are not very familiar with ·what goes on.

In fact, they make it their business say we need unified vices, particularly service.
vice really-not or other service, of the Colony remaining administrati State for the Colonies in paragraph as the chief ve bod:v. The Secretary an African, the Executive European.

Council We want a West Indian ser­ West Indian ser­ of an Administrative laid special be seen that the Secretary of State for the Colonies emphasis on the desire for what he cans "politi­ cal development shall read a portion which says:- in each CoJony".
of this paragraph I 'j -� ' " ...... Much could be clone in that direction of local of institutions sections give valuable by the clevelopment government which, even in the form they would have to take among the less advanced should tee work and so forth, expected, therefore participation o.f the central of any community, experience in commit.­ and might be to lead in time to mn,.,, by the people in the wcrk government."
Now, sir, what has this Government of Bill, 1945. time, I wis'1 Therefore the fostering Now, sir, certain Government cannot of State says we should :it fl,e ::,pprl)priate it clear that I should not regal·d with the other but that is what goes on to say, 5 of the deRpatch, that:- hon.
Members the view that we should of a sense of West and the estiiblishmrnt the Council to take the second reading of federation of the in any way between the existing "In stating should .be Indian unity, feclPr:>tion ti) mnke the wide q11estion area as a whole as debarring closer association groups.''

done towards the realisation of this excellent principle, as suggested by the Secretary of State for the Col­ onies.

I say 'again that the Executive that the aim of British policy Council must be blamed.
It is not ,:rood enough just to read these things, talk about them and then leave them there.

Action must be taken.

Immediatel.v after this motion is debated, will proceed of tlie Local Government 'J'he Council will then go into Com­ mittee.

conscientiously say that it has done a single thing towards bringing self-government within the reach of tl1I' Yin�g-rs What is more, within the ilast five years Your ExceUency's has made promises things, things.
D.Owen and dated 21st July, '1941, your Government stated:- have expressed i;iot have association West Indian Colonies, the Secretary do.

Let the association it be extended, let there be unified for all these are preliminaries Indian feredation.

Therefore, the amendments Seventh Nominated hon.

Member for Geo1·getown North realJy have no effect.

this motion is sound and I trust that when the time comes for voting every­ one would vote for it, so that these things could be done.
To say that these things should be done but there should be no political .

would be just playing the hon.

Members had read this despatch they wo1lld not have moved these amendments.

Looking 6 of the despatch, it would paragraph "I am directed of tl,e 5th July, 1941, enclosin!

:( of Resolution� nas�Prl meptjn�s hPH in the North West District regard to Resolutions Nos.

7 and 8.
7 and 8.

I am to inform you that the request extension Franchise cinal and Local Government been communica miRsion had always been intended arate Commission with these matters after the General Franchise ted to the Franchis e Com­ who have been informed that it to set up a sep­ subsequently for the of r"ference of the to include Muni­ Franchise· has but has failed to do those In a letter moved by the hon.

the Member and the federation with the subject.


If to refer to your letter copie� of the terms Commission let it be augmented, and so on, to West +lie hst �ri :vein·s.

continue-let rto do certain The principle carefully, cl1ll'in!!'

Government signed by Mr. G. services and.

with at pnblic local of at to deal the, Commission on had reported.

The \ ·• � .,.

; 787 Moti01i 5 SEPTEMBER, 1945.

W.I.


Feclerntion 738 Commission have been asked Franchise for their views as to whether it is prefer­ able that the question should be dealt with by the same Com­ mission us the General Franchise adclitio11s necessary with the of Local Franchise to its membe1·ship.

that he is not satisfied that believe will be done to give this something Colony self-government.

If that was that the hon.


I am confident assured Nominntecl j)Jembe1·s would support the motion whole-heartedly.

This is what of State says in para­ the Secretary graph 7 of his despatch:- on the words ''abso­ during the last five strong representations begin­ nothing.
As is stated very clearly in his of State for of giving the to learn the of self-government, the Secretary is desirous despatch, the Colonies people an opportunity principles but this Gov­ ning from the villages, ernment has done absolutely I lay emphasis lutely nothing" years, although we.re made to the Royal Commission, and although drawn to it Government that it was always its intention nrc Jf the:--() into 1lie mnttP1·.

whose fault is it but the backward Central Administration?
The Secre­ must be tary of S_tate pinned down to the fact that Govern­ ment has made certain is expected we will put no credence made by Government ment writes.
when its attention wrote saying to go Colonie,;, them, otherwise for the CCllonies or what Govern­ in promises promises and to fulfil was " ..... lf all those Legislatures were then in favour of the aim the next step would be the of the means whereby pro­ to declare themselves of federation, consideration posals could be drawn up for such closer association as may prove immediately possibility Indian delega'tes date, either in the West Indies or in Lon­ of pro­ don, to consider the formulation posals for that closer association".
between West Indian Colonies feasible.

One is that a conference should be held at a later of West What more assurance does the Sixth Member or the Member Nominated for Georgetown North want?

M:r. SEAFORD: What the Member North wants is, a state­ for Georgetown ment of what it means before we accept it, sir.

I think that is very very plain.

What is it going to cost the Colony?

or appoints of State desires the We have 25 villages .
There a.re other dis­ with this debate; I really and there are 70 in which the Local Gov­ hon.

They really want to have Mr. JACOB: My friend is really .

It would be well to read his I am dis­ What is the actual position as regards local self-government which the Secretary people to achieve?

in which the people do not elect all of their councillors, other villages ernment Board nominates the councillors by the Local Govern­ tricts governed Is that ment Board.

Is that progress?
Is that progress?

ex­ the way the Imperial p�cts progress in these parts?

I say that that is solely the responsibility of the local Goven1mc11t, i11 Cmrntil.

had shown some initiative, emphasised progress I am sure one hon.

Member at least, Member (Mr. the Sixth Nominated Edun) would not have opposed this motfon in the way he has done.

I cornered speech when it is written.

appointed do not know what is worrying Members.


their own way; to have a party or a clique to control it has been or is there some have a most statesmanlike from the Secretary Colonies Legislalnres Some of us want this Colony to be and with Brazil, federated 1hc other Guianas.

01hers want to cost, while another know what-it will Member talks about enmity between the Colonies.
this Government a:11 these years, Here we despatch of State for the and to the to this 'Legislature by the Royal Commissioners the Govemor in Cmmcil If it is the intention would have been made, and tive Government to press for these If tlrn Go1·ernor Venezuela, controlled Government other object?

of the Execu­ as has been as of the other Colonies.

- ---� 739 Motion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

W.l.


Federation 140 of Government despatch to be pigeon­ we would be pur­ I can see no reason the motion as framed, things as stated, for not accepting but if it is the intention to do nothing but simply allow the Sec­ retary of State's holed and forgotten, suing a policy of frustration which would lead us nowhere.

My purpose here is to do sometliing of it.

It is not my pur:pose on and mark time, or to do the things that will give That is not my object here.
My ooject is to see tlie Colony progress.

Whether I remain here or not is another matter.

or to get out just to look me personal benefits.

and the next step It is quite clear from the Secretary of State's despatch that we are to declare whether we are in favour of the aim of federation, will be the consideration whereby proposals for such closer association between this Colony and the West Indies.

I have named those Colonies practical Secretary and I think some step should be taken.
The of State goes on to state:- could be drawn up of the means "One possibility is that a conference of West Indian delegates a later date·, in London, proposals to conside.r the formulation of for that closer association."

either in the West Indies or should be held at recommend the setting up of a Com­ mittee to consider federation.

That thing altogether.


the question of is quite a different Colonies in 1938 it was felt that it other Administrators but one Gover­ with double pay, thus Mr. JACOB: I would suggest that my hon.

friend read the despatch again.

When the matter was discussed in Trinidad would cosrt the Colonies a great deal less.

There would be no need to have th,ree first-class with three first-class Governors, nor-General saving the pay of a third Governor, and possibly the smaller Colonies.
communications a practical tented people in these parts.

My friend, the hon.

Member for Georgetown is fully aware of what amalgamation or centralization not deny the statement of the principals ing companies, ber of sugar factories to be dismantled.

means to amalgamate several sugar factories-reduced other expenses.

I am sure it would be step towards a more con­ administrative means.
I hope he will of the sugar produc­ and be knows the num­ With improved He knows what it he has caused that he is one North, and in of this Council I suggest that that is the answer to of the hon.

Member for North (Mr. Seaford)� the speech Georgetown not a Committee of this Council.

I have known -committees and what we have got from them.

I know all about the Franchise Com­ m1ss1011.

suggestion, and ther consideration will agree that it is futile to have a Committee consider ony.
to go into this matter to what it would cost this Col­ I am wholly against his I think that on fur­ the hon.

Member Mr. SEAFORD: Is the hon.

Mem­ that a Committee ber suggesting set up in the West Indies to consider the matter after the question ation has been accepted?

He does not of feder­ be Mr. SEAFORD: Production is dif­ ferent.

to for The fact remains, Mr. JACOB: It is not possible argue with my friend because he will .. that amal­ not reason.
gamation, centralization or unffication of the several Colonies and services would lead to greater prosperity I will wind up by saying all concerned.

this matter that I have considered somewhat carefully.

sev- I have visited eral of the West Indian islands, and I have been in communicaton with the of them: I have vis- leaders ited Antigua, Bar­ St. Kitts, Grenada, bados, and Trinidad.
I have visited Trinidad in constant of the Labour leaders I am confident touch with the majority at least four times and I am that those people are in several in those islands.

741 Motion 5 SEPTEMBER, i943.

W.1.

Federation 142 there has been but up ·to recently I am that the majority of the in fav0ur of West Indian Federation.

I do not know whether a landslide, satisfied people in the Colonies favour of federation, details are properly may be differences regards details.
would be in provided the worked out.

There of opinion as ' In conclusion I wish to say that it The hon.

ths Membeil: (Mr. Edun) with the West Indies.

Sixth Nominated stands for adwlt s'l.l:ffrage as the basis of self-government, yet he says he is not in favour of federation.

I am posi� tive that had he read the despatch he would have seen that the Secretary of State is directing the Legislative Coun­ cil to pursue a policy with the aim of federation.
for-to direct G0vernment Members talk about a Uniified Colo­ nial Service, sity, and a Unified Medical Se·rvice.

Aren't those things a step towards self.government?

That is what we are here policy.

that there matters.

schemes.


this Colony occupied, of this Colony is It is my opinion of our population a West Indian Univer­ of the development The motion suggests on constitutional and it is to which has statesmen, of State, Your Excellency these vast the Crown Colonies, would more explicit and let the It would co-operation if the in charge of these .
Colonies, is to be hoped that British not merely one Secretary should avoid the use of terms which are vague, particularly and administrative lead to greater statesmen should be free movement of people particufarly among the Colonies.

be a little knows my views :regard�ng people of :the Colonies-the subject agrict1ltural races as we are called-know exactly that the population what they mean and what promises too small to permit of the lands so they make.
It is not enough merely to improved being liene:ficially make vague statements, and unless there is a substantial be hoped that the technique increase been used in the past as regards will certainly revert to Treasury con­ pr-omises to these Colonies will not be trol.

Have Members read Dr. Ben­ repeated, and that from now on we ham's report with regard to the rice will have a well defined policy with industry?

What are we increasing the set purpose our rice prod1,1ction for?
Isn't it to the Caribbean, including British supply the West Indies?

If we do Guiana.

not federate where will we sell our rice?

The Canada-West raised a barrier ernment said it could not interfere trade relations between one British Colony and other.

Have we a suffi.

ciently strong voice to tell Downing Street that we have a Colony of potential Imperial to develop and over and failed, the advent of Your Excellency attempt has ibeen made to spend some money on this Colony.
What is 108 million dollars with such vasrt mineral are going to develop hydro-electric power in this Coiony are we going to depend upon Canadian capital to do· so?

Mr. LEE: The hon.

Member for North-Western District to some of the points in the Secretary of State's intended of any Member of this Council, has .
the · progress heart, opposing supported Royal Commission cannot conceive of Members turning down this suggestion said that I proposed to adjourn -the debate on this motion after an hour and a half, but as things have gone I think it would be useful to go 0n and who care to hear as many Members speak.

who of this Colony at this motion.· Having to spend money it?

We have tried over The PRESIDENT: I originally and it is only since that an wealth, Government to speak.
I cannot conceive the recommendations with the West Indies to a Colony like this Trade Agreement and the Imperial of federation and that we want the in every detail I has referred on which I had Indires.

despatch wealth?

If we Gov­ in of the of " 743 Motion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

W.1.

Pedemtion '/44 is putting He suggests Lf Members have read the Secre­ they tary of State's carefully despatch would have seen that he does not sug.

gest that we should embark upon tomorrow.


federation the policy we iShould ,pursue in economic order to reach thait goal.

If the Impe­ rial Government its hand out to help us we should accept it.

We could abandon federation at any moment; any Colony would have the right to secede from it.

If we find that federation nies is burdensome them (laQghter).

put it is so stated in the despatch.

am appealing reconsider motion.

to us we could leave Members may laugh with the other Colo­ to 'hon.
Members to I the matter and support the of cer­ partial consider to consider federation untficat1on the federation and social amenities­ in this part of the world.

to those of even the larger in the West Indies and there on the wide vista aims at.
The Guiana are not could usefully of Colonies 1 think, sir, it would be well for these Colonies at this stage-the tain services before embarking which the despatch problems of British similar Co1onies is no feature these problems digita it seems to me that nothing short a commission-comprised local men but of men who have made a special Customs duties, the constitutions Colonies-should into the matter very carefully advise us what to do in the circum­ stances.
that is so common that could possibly inter­ te.

We have to go gradually and of not only of .

study of matters like questions be appointed to go and of these various political and as the Dis­ of State's on this point, a despatch Mr. J.

A. LUCK.HOO: There is a cleavage on of opinion undoubtedly this motion, and one has to go very warily before making up one's mind to cast his vote in favour of the motion.

as it stands or against it.

I have read the Secretary despatch which is full of excellence, hon.
Member for North-Western trict.

(Mr. Jacob) has admitted-some­ thing which is very strange this Council-and credit to the Secretary sincerity what doubtful in ess,ence sion of opinion eration.

should bring federati effect at once.

It merely suggests that we should consider eration Caribbean Guiana on this mainland.

really asks for an expres­ as to the aim of fed­ that we ,on into practical of State, the is some­ The despatch whether fed­ of the is good for the Colonies of which, however, (laughter).
and the Colony of British If does not suggest he has given much to us in It seems to me, however, that we to the in these parts, is an undevel­ like irrigation transmit of State for the Colonies.

and and development of the which ,are not common to any might usefully discuss the motion and give our views which Y ou1· I<.

:xceliency will, in due course, Secretary British Guiana, unlike the other Colonies oped Colony and we are now carrying out certain schemes drainage, interior, other Colonies.
therefore, time we would have to look after our own affairs which we consider development we should reach a certain development-a sufficiency-before harnessing to those of the other Colonies cerned.

•and do certain things necessary of the Colony.

I think our resources, we could think of It seems to me more or less, stage of self­ certain stage of for the con­ rbhat for some considerable The question of federation It has depth is of Government very great importance.
and great width, and while the aim of the Imperial of world policy common to the administration it seems to me of all of its Colonies, that the stratum for it must be founded cerned, I think we could express, briefly, presently-of Colonies on a common basis before one moniously a scheme whereby the in these parts, could work har­ of all for the benefit at this stage is to set a In so far as the motfon is con­ reconstruction our desfre to approve-not together, 745 Motion 5 SEPTEMBER, 1945.

W.l.
W.l.

Federation 746 passages has spoken for nearly from in the despatch The hon.

Member for North conce1·ned.

Wes tern District an hour on this motion and has quoted several the Secretary and also from the recommendations the West Indiia desire, however, ant point in paragraph •where the Secretary Royal Commission.
to stress one import­ 2 of the despatch, of State for the of State for the Colonies of I Colonies states:- it important, purpose institutions Caribbean "I consider the more immediate self-governing dual British keep in view the larger political federation, as which, sion, policy that therefore, of developin g in the indivi­ should of their in the view of the Royal Commis­ be directed."

Coloni"!s project being the end to should ( sir.


The recommendations Mr. JACOB: To a point of cor­ of dis­ the ques­ rection the West India Royal Commission close that they considered tion and that there was not a single dissentient federation.

voice against immediate the ques.

Mr. J.

A. LUCKH00: I do not agree that they investigated tion fully.

They have thrown out a hint-a mere hint-but the question is not an easy one.
One might speak for hours and hours on it--and of us are prone in that direction-but it is not because recommended adopted ·immediately.

important sidered our lot with the other West Indian Colonies.

the Royal Commission that it could be There are which must be con­ before we decide to throw in federation details some Mr. JACKiSON: The hon.

the and I have no Fifth Nominated Member is a brave man and I admired his calm compla­ cency in moving this motion.
I also admire his simplicity doubt that at the bottom of his heart today, there is a strong desire for and a strong desire to have federation the question in all its phases.

We have had quite a good de;i.l of latitude in debate here today and perhaps you with the connexion discussed it a very wise pronouncement mentioned enthusiasm River on his perfervid will pardon me, sir, if at this stage I congratulate the hon.

Member for Essequibo and his eloquence-bis zeal-in the cause he espoused.
When at the out­ Your Excellency set that it was not y,our desire to take the vote on the motion today, I con­ sidered knows that the indeed.
Everyone difficult is .an exceedingly question and serious one, and I do not think the Council should be led away by the eloquence ,of the Members who have already the be11efits that British derive from federation-but rather that the question fully and carefully, so that when a pronouncement it will be a well-considered mature judgment Federation sound well and good, but are we satis­ fied that all that ha·s been promised by those Members who spoke in favour of its immediate would be realised?
should be considered in all its bearings, is made and .

with the West Indies may of this Legislature their stressing spoken-by Guiana would adoption of There is no doubt that this Colony of and hon.

Members population developed.

to state that we in order to have But, sir, will is one of very great potentialities tihere is every reason require its resources bring to us the necessary federation.

nopulation as certain have stated so glibly?


My own idea is that if we tackle the resources we make it evident this Colony-if that we have room for the profitable occupation of people outside-we would get the necessary from those islands populated.

should be carried time are those schemes and projects to make this which have been planned from population possible,-to outside the Colony and to offer induce­ ment to others to come in and work.
I think that when we have been able to execute those plans, we could then sit aside centrate with the West Indies.

that are over­ I do feel, sir, that what for the time being and con­ on the question out at the present population receive of federation 7 47 Jlf0tion LEGISLA-TIVE C0UNCH,.

W.I.

Federation 74S Mr. LEE: To a point of correc­ tion; I never said that.

think, how.
think, how.

is made a at the general , we might have an opportun­ the desire of the people by the result of the Mr. JACKSON: I ever, that if the question plank for his platform elections ity of judging for federation, I would ask Your Excel­ elections.

lency tha,t a vote be not taken on this motion today, since I do not think it would be wise for us to dismiss the motion altogether, think we could leave it and see what result it would have on the general elections.

or to accept it.

I '& Mr.


PEER B.AiCCHUS: I am, the idea of federation, me of the bene­ of it.

All the hon.

who has made such a fine sir, not against but I am also not in a position to say that I am in favour of it.

I was hoping, sir, that the hon, mover of the motion would have convinced fits we would derive from federation but I with the West Indian islands, have not been so convinced by him or by the hon.
Member for North Western District speech in suppor,t Members who supported told us benefits federation, would go so for as to say that we would be denied those benefits if we couid put up a reasonable Imperial I do not liold that any such applica­ tion for assistance the Imperial are not federated Indian islands, that is a threat being used by those who supported would be denied by because with the West nor do I think that from we might receive but I do not think they Government Government this motion.
the motion case to the we I, for assistance.
to learn from our social and inquired will tell you that we in British of improving and other benefits that we , bat I think those who these islands There has been a �ood deal of talk that about the educational advanta,ies we may derive from ;federation with the West Indies and there has also been a good deal of talk about the possibility amenities, might 1·eceive have visited into their sodal amenities as well as the generai conduct of their own affairs, Guiana have very littfe them.
I d0 feel, ·sir, that if given proper opportunities, we in this Colony would be able to rise •Guiana of BTitish to any height .and excel, perhaps, all the other Colonies within the West Indian group, not oniy in education, bu.t in other fields of achievement.

do not agree, sir, that federation would give us aU we require.
I do Mt agree that it would benefit this Colony fr.om the point of view of education, we have been making with contacts the Colony will benefit interests outside the West Indian islands as well as our­ selves.

and I d0 not ag'l.·ee that the I of products will to in the To me, it i.s mere "clap-trap" out sin­ Your Excel­ very careful our products if we federate attention and ana I do not they cannot produce but we must be certain talk of selling West Indfan islands with them.
They will buy the rice we produce because it themselves, that an inter-change be carried out�and .carried we federate.

cerely-if lency, I repeat that this matter requires very: careful planning, think that at this moment we should conceive I wauld suggest, Member for Essequibo perhaps others also-should the opportunity of federation at the forthcoming general That hen.

Member referred that if i,t was known at the general elections vote for federation, might be hampered. '
,: • to make thi's question a plank for his platform River-and welcome their chances that certain Members did not to the fact I the idea of having federation.

sir, that tl!J.e hon.

elections.

When the hon..


Member for stated that Bar­ be the best place Demerara-Essequibo bados would probably for the seat of the Governor-General in the event of federation through my mind that British might then be reduced a sort of District are going :to place ourselves Council, and if we , it flashed to the status of Guiana in that UD Motion 5 SEPTEMBER, 194'5 ..

.

:.

W.l.

FadeNLtion 750 me the motion.


to vote against of the Members of that alone would entitle position, and the majority this Council I, sir, cannot ag.ree that by having some Lieut.­ one Governor-General Adminis­ Governors and some District trators a reduction tion, we would be justified our status and feeling derive much benefit from federation.
which might result in the cost of administra­ in reducing that we would perhaps, in • We cannot even tell what would be as regards the cost of for the federated from one Colony would go to more money would than in another.

that after federation would not pooi their but that each one would the position administration Colonies-whether be taken from the larger Colonies ones, or whether from the smaller revenue make up any deficit feel certain various resources have to stand on its own legs.
That being so, I feel that this Colony would not receive Government from a federated from its own Administration receives time.

Therefore, at the present regret that I cannot give my support to the motion as it stands.

the same consideration Colonies I the sir, I as it Colony as a whole would be fo a posi­ tion to say whether we should vote for or against federation.

The PRESIDENT: Does any Council other Member wish to address the hon.

on the motion?
on the motion?

I understood mover to say that he would prefer us not to proceed after the Barbado� so?

to take the vote until conference; is that Mr. CRITCHLOW: That is so, Your Excellency .

The PRESIDENT: There might to put the question would wish to speak very useful in that, so be something I do not propose now, or to call upon the hon.

mover to until a speakers, reply to the vari-ous the end of this later date, possibly the return of the dele­ month-after I think the gates from Barbados.
General Attorney on the motion and I should like to make my own comments because, the question said, I had a good deal to do with a part of the despatch I have been looking last October.

the file here and I have some corre­ between myself and Colonel spondence which I think would be Oliver Stanley, useful for the information I think we should now Members.

adjourn before putting as I have already while in London, until 2 o'clock tomorrow.

of hon.

at I have supported the amendment moved by the hon.
Member for George­ town North and I would add that I even an would like to see a committee to Intercolonial go into all the details so that not only this Council of the question, but the Committee-appointed The Councii adjourned accordingly.

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