Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698753436124.pdf (Malaysia)
Volume V No.

25 Wednesday, 18th December, 1963 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) OFFICIAL REPORT CONTENTS ADMINISTRATION OF OATH [Col. 2593] ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS [Col. 2593] STATEMENT BY THE PRIME MINISTER: Indonesian Sabotage Plot [Col. 2607] MOTIONS: The Customs Duties (Amendment) (No.

9) Order, 1963 [Col. 2668] The Development (Supplementary) (No.
3) Estimates, 1963— Committee: Head 114 [Col. 2684] Head 118 [Col. 2684] Heads 120 and 154 [Col. 2685] Head 122 [Col. 2685] BILLS: The Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill [Col. 2610] The Fisheries (Amendment) Bill [Col. 2633] The Poisons (Amendment) Bill [Col. 2669] The Rubber [Col. 2670] (Replanting) Fund Industry (Amendment) Bill DI-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG, A.M.N., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN KUALA LUMPUR 1964 DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report Fifth Session of the First Dewan Ra'ayat Wednesday, 18th December, 1963 The House met at Ten o'clock a.m.
PRESENT: The Honourable Mr Speaker, DATO' HAJI MOHAMED NOAH BIN OMAR, P.M.N., S.P.M.J., D.P.M.B., P.I.S., J.P. the Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister of Information and Broadcasting, Y.T.M.

TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PUTRA AL-HAJ, K.O.M.

(Kuala Kedah).

the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence and Minister of Rural Development, TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N.

(Pekan).
(Pekan).

the Minister of Internal Security and Minister of the Interior, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N.

(Johor Timor).

the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah).

the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N.

(Sungai Siput).

the Minister of Transport, DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR, P.M.N.

(Pontian Utara).

the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR BIN JOHARI (Kedah Tengah).
the Minister of Labour and Social Welfare, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah).

the Minister of Health, ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB (Kuantan).

the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan).

the Minister of Education, TUAN HAJI ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT ALI KHAN, J.M.N., J.P. (Batang Padang).

the Minister of Sarawak Affairs, DATU TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.D.K.

(Sarawak).
(Sarawak).

the Assistant Minister of the Interior, ENCHE' CHEAH THEAM SWEE (Bukit Bintang).

the Assistant Minister of Labour and Social Welfare, ENCHE' V. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K.

(Klang).

the Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN (Kota Star Utara).

„ „ „ 2587 18 DECEMBER 1963 2588 The Honourable the Assistant Minister of Information and Broadcasting, DATU MOHAMED ISMAIL BIN MOHAMED YUSOF, P.D.K.

(Jerai).
(Jerai).

the Assistant Minister of Rural Development (Sarawak), ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN BIN YA'KUB (Sarawak).

ENCHE' ABDUL AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Kuala Langat).

ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N.

(Melaka Utara).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN, K.M.N., P.J.K.

(Krian Laut).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HUSSIN (Lipis).

ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN OSMAN (Sungai Patani).

TOH MUDA HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI ABDUL RAOF (Kuala Kangsar).

TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD.

SALLEH, A.M.N., P.I.S.

(Segamat Utara).


TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kota Bharu Hilir).

ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N.

(Muar Utara).

ENCHE' AHMAD BIN MOHAMED SHAH, S.M.J.

(Johor Bahru Barat).

TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID (Seberang Utara).

ENCHE' AHMAD BIN HAJI YUSOF, P.J.K.

(Krian Darat).

CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak).

O. K. K. DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' AWANG DAUD BIN MATUSIN (Sarawak).

TUAN HAJI AZAHARI BIN HAJI IBRAHIM (Kubang Pasu Barat).
ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).

DR BURHANUDDIN BIN MOHD.

NOOR (Besut).

ENCHE' JONATFIAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG (Sarawak).

PENGARAH BANYANG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N.

(Kluang Selatan).

ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).

ENCHE' CHAN SWEE HO (Ulu Kinta).

„ ENCHE' CFIAN YOON ONN (Kampar).

ENCHE' CHIN SEE YIN (Seremban Timor).

ENCHE' V. DAVID (Bungsar).

ENCHE' DAGOK ANAK RANDEN (Sarawak).

ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK TANGKUN (Sarawak).

DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N.

(Jitra-Padang Terap).


ENCHE' GANING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah).

ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N.

(Penang Utara).

ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD.

YUNUS, A.M.N.

(Kulim Utara).

ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Baling).

ENCHE' HARUN BIN PILUS (Trengganu Tengah).

TUAN HAJI HASAN ADLI BIN HAJI ARSHAD (Kuala Trengganu Utara).

TUAN HAJI HASSAN BIN HAJI AHMAD (Tumpat).

ENCHE' HASSAN BIN MANSOR (Melaka Selatan).

2589 18 DECEMBER 1963 2590 The Honourable ENCHE' STANLEY HO NGUN KHIU, A.D.K.

(Sabah).
(Sabah).

ENCHE' HONG TECK GUAN (Sabah).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN T O' MUDA HASSAN (Raub).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN MOHD.

NOORDIN, A.M.N., P J .

K. (Parit).

TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu).

ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah).

ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan).

ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN HAJI KASSIM (Kuala Trengganu Selatan).

PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN (Sarawak).

ENCHE' JHUMAH BIN SALIM (Sabah).

ENCHE' KANG KOCK SENG (Batu Pahat).


ENCHE' K. KARAM SINGH (Damansara).

CHE' KHADIJAH BINTI MOHD.

SIDEK (Dungun).

ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LEE SAN CHOON, K.M.N.

(Kluang Utara).

ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N.

(Sepang).

ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' CHARLES LINANG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LIM HUAN BOON (Singapore).

ENCHE' LIM JOO KONG, J.P. (Alor Star).

ENCHE' LIU YOONG PENG (Rawang).

ENCHE' PETER LO Su YIN (Sabah).


O. K. K. HAJI MAHALI BIN O. K. K. MATJAKIR, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson).

ENCHE' MOHAMED BIN UJANG (Jelebu-Jempol).

ENCHE' MOHAMED ABBAS BIN AHMAD (Hilir Perak).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA (Pasir Puteh).

ENCHE' MOHAMED DAHARI BIN HAJI MOHD.

ALI (Kuala Selangor).

ORANG TUA MOHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHD.

D UN BIN BANIR, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHAMED N OR BIN MOHD.


DAHAN (Ulu Perak).

DATO' MOHAMED HANIFAH BIN HAJI ABDUL GHANI, P.J.K.

(Pasir Mas Hulu).

ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N.

(Temerloh).

TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan).

TUAN HAJI MUHAMMAD SU'AUT BIN HAJI MUHD.

TAHIR (Sarawak).

N IK MAN BIN N IK MOHAMED (Pasir Mas Hilir).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Perlis Utara).

ENCHE' ABANG OTHMAN BIN ABANG HAJI MOASILI (Sarawak).
„ „ „ „ „ 2591 18 DECEMBER 1963 2592 The Honourable ENCHE' S. RAJARATNAM (Singapore).

„ „ „ „ „ „ „ „ ,, „ „ TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD.

SAID, J.P. (Rembau-Tampin).

ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB (Muar Pantai).

ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh).

ENCHE' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM (Menglembu).

ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SNG CHIN JOO (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SONG THIAN CHEOK (Sarawak).

TUAN SYED ESA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.L, P.I.S.

(Batu Pahat Dalam).
(Batu Pahat Dalam).

TUAN SYED HASHIM BIN SYED AJAM, A.M.N., P J .

K ., J.P. (Sabak Bernam).

TUAN SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, J.M.N.

(Johor Tenggara).

ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN ALI, P J .

K. (Larut Utara).

ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan).

ENCHE' TAN PHOCK K IN (Tanjong).

ENCHE' TAN TSAK YU (Sarawak).

ENCHE' TAN TYE CHEK (Kulim-Bandar Bahru).

TENGKU BESAR INDERA RAJA IBNI AL-MARHUM SULTAN IBRAHIM, D.K., P.M.N.

(Ulu Kelantan).

DATO' TEOH CHZE CHONG, D.P.M.J., J.P. (Segamat Selatan).
ENCHE' TOO JOON HING (Telok Anson).

PENGHULU FRANCIS UMPAU ANAK EMPAM (Sarawak).

ENCHE' V. YEERAPPEN (Seberang Selatan).

WAN MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ALI (Kelantan Hilir).

WAN SULAIMAN BIN WAN TAM, P.J.K.

(Kota Star Selatan).

ENCHE' YAHYA BIN HAJI AHMAD (Bagan Datoh).

ENCHE' YEH PAO TZE (Sabah).

ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas).

ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TZE (Sarawak).

ENCHE' YONG WOO MING (Sitiawan).

PUAN HAJJAH ZAIN BINTI SULAIMAN, J.M.N., P.I.S.

(Pontian Selatan).

TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD.


TAIB (Langat).

ENCHE' ZULKIFLEE BIN MUHAMMAD (Bachok).

ABSENT: The Honourable the Minister without Portfolio, DATO' ONG YOKE LIN, P.M.N.

„ „ „ (Ulu Selangor).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAHIM ISHAK (Singapore).

ENCHE' AHMAD BOESTAMAM (Setapak).

ENCHE' CHIA THYE POH (Singapore).

DATU GAME GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).

DR G OH KENG SWEE (Singapore).

2593 18 DECEMBER 1963 2594 The Honourable ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N.

(Kapar).

ENCHE' HO SEE BENG (Singapore).


ENCHE' JEK YEUN THONG (Singapore).

ENCHE' KHONG KOK YAT (Batu Gajah).

ENCHE' K OW KEE SENG (Singapore).

ENCHE' LEE KUAN YEW (Singapore).

ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim).

ENCHE' LING BENG SIEW (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat).

ENCHE' LIM KIM SAN (Singapore).

ENCHE' PETER J. MOJUNTIN, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' NG ANN TECK (Batu).

ENCHE' NGUI AH K U I, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' ONG PANG BOON (Singapore).


TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Tanah Merah).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN WOK (Singapore).

ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Barat).

DATU DONALD ALOYSIUS STEPHENS, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka).

DR TOH CHIN CHYE (Singapore).

WAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU TUANKU BUJANG (Sarawak).

WAN YAHYA BIN HAJI WAN MOHAMED, K.M.N.

(Kemaman).

ENCHE' WEE TOON BOON (Singapore).

ENCHE' YONG NYUK LIN (Singapore).


P R A Y E RS (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr Speaker, Sir, 1965 or 1966—is this House to understand that this Force will not imme diately be Malayanised?

(Laughter), A D M I N I S T R A T I ON OF O A TH Mr Speaker: It has already been The following Member made and sub scribed the Affirmation required by law: replied to.

Dato' Dr Ismail: The question is so elementary, Sir.
Do I need to answer Enche S. Rajaratnam (Singapore) that O R AL A N S W E RS TO Mr question?

Speaker: No.

I say it has already Q U E S T I O NS been replied to.

Dato' Dr Ismail: I thought you nodded to me.

MALAYSIAN INSPECTOR-GENERAL— APPOINTMENT bin Enche' Zulkiflee Muhammad (Bachok): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada- 1.
Enche' K. Karam Singh (Damansara) kah jangka waktu yang demikian itu asks the Minister of Internal Security di-sebabkan oleh kerana Yang Ber- when a Malaysian citizen will be hormat Menteri menyangka bahawa appointed to the post of Inspector- kelayakan belum ada bagi orang yang General of the Royal Malaysian Police, menjadi ra'ayat negeri ini untok men- jawat jawatan itu, atau sebab yang lain?
The Minister of Internal Security (Dato' Dr Ismail bin Dato' Haji Abdul Dato' Dr Ismail: Tuan Yang di- Rahman): Sir, towards the end of 1965 Pertua, bila Persekutuan Malaysia di- ia-itu di-dapati di-dalam or early 1966. tubohkan 2595 18 DECEMBER 1963 2596 Pasokan Polis ada banyak kekurangan pegawai2.

Maka dengan sebab itu-lah sa-berapa pegawai yang ada patut di- tahan sampai masa-nya bagi dapat pegawai yang menchukupi.
Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak (Kuala Langat): Mr Speaker, Sir, does that amount to a no confidence in the more senior Malayan officer that an expat riate officer is appointed?

Dato' Dr Ismail: That is only the Honourable Member's opinion that it is a no confidence.

As far as I am concerned, it is not a no confidence.

Enche' K. Karam Singh (Damansara): Yesterday the Defence Minister said that he had absolute confidence in the new the incoming Commander of Malaysian Armed Forces.
It is very strange that although one Minister has absolute confidence in local people .

.

.. Mr Speaker: Order, order!

What is your question?

Enche' K. Karam Singh: I am coming to it, Sir.

Although one Minister says that he has absolute confidence, the other Minister, his closest colleague, is not able to give that same assurance in this House; and from that the only conclusion this House can draw is that this Minister has no confidence in his own fellow citizens in the Police Service.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I want the Minister to say whether he has absolute confidence in Malaysian officers, or he has confi dence only in his expatriate officers.

Dato' Dr Ismail: I have confidence in all the officers in my Ministry.

the Enche' K. Karam Singh: Is Minister aware that the British expat riate officers in the Malayan Police constitute an arm, not of the Malayan Police, which they are only in name, but actually are part of the British Secret Service ?
Mr Speaker: That is an entirely different question.

I cannot allow that.

Enche' K. Karam Singh: I have some more questions, Mr Speaker.

Is the Minister aware that he can be made a victim of the machinations of these British expatriate officers in the Police and Special Branch, and as a result of these machinations anti-colonial poli ticians in this country can be arrested and deprived of their liberty ?

Mr Speaker: That is again out of order.


Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Is the Minister aware that the Commissioner- General of Police from time to time consult the British High Commissioner for Malaysia at his house?

AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Shame!

Mr Speaker: Do you like to reply to that?

Dato' Dr Ismail: There is no such post as Commissioner-General of Police, Sir.

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: I beg of pardon—Inspector-General your Police.

Mr Speaker: Do you require notice of that question ?
Dato' Dr Ismail: No, Sir, I do not require notice.

I think that is just a product of the Honourable Member's pathological thinking Sir (Laughter).

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Is the Minister not aware, or is he aware?

If he is aware, will he find out whether it is true or not ?

Dato' Dr Ismail: I said that that is the Honourable just a product of Member's pathological mind.

Enche' V. David (Bungsar): It is very clear.

We want an answer as to whether the Minister is aware or not.
Mr Speaker: He is not aware, that is what it amounts to.

Enche' V. David: He has not said that he is not.

Enche' K. Karam Singh: I think this Minister instead of answering questions is just attacking Opposition Members.

He must answer whether it is "Yes" or "No", because he may be a pathological case himself.

Mr Speaker: What is your point?


Enche' K. Karam Singh: He must answer the question, Sir—whether he is aware that the Inspector-General of the Malaysian Police gets instructions from 2597 18 DECEMBER 1963 2598 the British High Commissioner in the it Federation.

Does he know happens, or does he not know?

that Mr Speaker: Question No.

2.

Enche' K. Karam Singh: I have one supplementary question, Sir.
further Will the Minister deny, although we are an independent country today, that he is just a rubber stamp of these expat riate officers and he approves anything and everything that they do to the extent of harming patriotic leaders of this country?

Mr Speaker: That is also out of order.

I can't allow that question.


CRAFTSMAN PRINTERS—REFU SAL OF LICENCE Enche' K. Karam Singh asks the Minister of the Interior to state the reason for the Government to reject the application of Craftsman Printers for renewal of licence for the year 1963.
The Minister of the Interior (Dato' Dr Ismail): Sir, the Government this year rejected an application by Enche' Tajuddin bin Abdul Kahar made on behalf of Pustaka Gunong Ledang Limited for a licence under the Printing Presses Ordinance to operate a printing press at Petaling Jaya to be known as "Craftsman Printers".
I wish, however, to make one point clear and that is that this application which was rejected by me was not an application for renewal of licence for 1963, and I do hope that in future Honourable Members when asking questions will clarify the facts and not waste the time of this House.

This particular press was licensed to operate in previous year but the licence was issued to a different person.
However, in 1962 this press was sold to Pustaka Gunong Ledang Limited and under the law, a fresh application has to be made.

It the is therefore not correct for Honourable Member who asked this question to say that the Government had rejected the application for renewal this year.

I repeat, the application was for a fresh licence and was not for a renewal of the is for licence—that Honourable Member's education.
Now, the application was rejected on the ground that I have reasons for believing that this Press will be used in a manner prejudicial to the security of the country.

Enche' K. Karam Singh: All these technicalities brought in by the Minister earlier on have nothing to do with the real reason which he has just disclosed— that it would be used in a manner prejudicial to the security of this country.
Did the Government in effect not allow the licence to Craftsman Printers because it was publishing or printing an Oppo sition party paper which he himself has licensed.

Dato' Dr Ismail: I am not respon sible for the Honourable Member's or the Opposition's opinion in this matter.
As far as I am concerned, I believe that this press will be used in a manner prejudicial to the security of the country, Enche' V. David: Well, it is a matter of opinion expressed by the Minister of Internal Security that the press may be used in a manner prejudicial to the security of this country.

Will he clearly state what he has in mind in relating that it will be prejudicial to the security of this country.
Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, will the Honourable Minister qualify—that it is not really prejudicial to the security of the country but rather prejudicial to the security of the Alliance Government?

(SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear!)

Enche' Tan Phock Kin (Tanjong): Can the Honourable Minister enlighten this House as to the grounds for basing his belief that the press is prejudicial to the security of the country?
To enable him to have a clearer picture of what I am aiming at, I may point out to him that it is usual for a Minister to act because of certain events which may have given him grounds for suspicion.

May I ask him whether there has been any such occasion during the period when the new company, Pustaka Gunong Ledang Ltd, has taken over?

Has the Minister censured or warned the press to the extent that it has been used for such purpose ?
2599 18 DECEMBER 1963 2600 Dato' Dr Ismail: Under the Ordinance the discretion is given to me.

I do not intend to accept or to be directed by the Honourable Member as I should use that discretion.

to how Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Is the Honour able Minister admitting that he has no reasonable grounds whatsoever and that he has been motivated solely by political prejudices?

Will he admit that, Sir?


subjective that except for opinions Enche K. Karam Singh: Is this House the to understand Minister's and beliefs, he has nothing material to tell this House as to why he took that action press—nothing this material except what is in his own mind ?

Or if he has anything material, is he prepared to put it before this House ?

against Mr Speaker: Are you prepared to answer that ?
Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I think the Honourable Member should know that I cannot be goaded into saying things which he wants me to say.

Enche' V. Veerappen (Seberang Selatan): Mr Speaker, Sir, could the Honourable Minister enlighten this House as to the conditions for renewal of licences for the Press ?

Dato' Dr Ismail: The Honourable Member is a Member of Parliament, and I suggest that he study that Ordinance!
in Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr Speaker, Sir, is the Government aware that this fact, this respect has, action in amounted the to a suppression of freedom of the Press, which freedom should be enjoyed by the Opposition Parties?

If the Minister cannot answer that, I would ask the Prime Minister to do so, because this is a very important question.

Mr Speaker: That question is irrelevant!


GENERAL ELECTIONS—PARTICI PATION BY DETAINEES the Enche' K. Karam Singh asks Minister of the Interior whether the Government will allow Enche' Ahmad Boestamam and other detainees to contest the coming General Elections and campaign freely therefor.

Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, there is no discretion vested in me as to whether or not a person is qualified to contest in the General Election as the qualifications for such are enshrined in the Constitution.
Whether Enche' Ahmad Boestamam and other detainees will be released or not for the purpose of campaigning the General Election, is dependent on whether or not they would continue to be a security threat to Malaysia.

freely in Enche' V. David: Sir, will the Minister enlighten this House as to whether Enche' Boestamam will be allowed to contest in the elections while remaining in detention ?

Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, the Honourable Member can read the Constitution as well as I do.
I do not intend to waste the time in educating him on that subject.

for He can himself.

the Constitution read Enche' V. David: Sir, I have under stood that the Government will always surprise us by amending certain parts of the Constitution whenever it desires.

So, it would not be a surprise to me if it were to introduce a new legislation to prevent Enche' Boestamam from contes ting in elections.
I would, therefore, like to have an assurance in this House as to whether the Minister will permit him to contest in elections even if his detention continues.

Can we have an answer, Sir?

Mr Speaker: He has already replied to that question that it is laid down in the Constitution.
ARMS FOR SOUTH AFRICA- SALE BY U.S.A. Enche' V. David asks the Minister of External Affairs whether he is aware that the United States of America despatches large quantities of arms to South Africa, and if so, whether he will consider to oppose this.
taking necessary action The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, as far as I know, or at least I am made to understand, America has stopped the sale of arms or military equipment to South Africa—arms or equipment which could be used to enforce the apartheid policy whether in South Africa or in West Africa.
However, there are a few 2601 18 DECEMBER 1963 2602 commitments which America has got to respect and, as far as I know, as soon as these commitments end, no arms or any material that is likely to be used to enforce this policy, will be sent to South Africa.

TRADE BETWEEN SOUTH AFRICA AND U.S.A. Enche' V. David: Sir, is the Prime Minister aware that a large quantity of gold is purchased from South Africa by the American Government and will the American Government cease trading with South Africa in future?
And will the Prime Minister take necessary action to see that the American Government does not trade with South Africa?

The Prime Minister: I cannot give any assurance on that because that is the American Government's business and not mine!

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Enche' V. David: What will be the stand of the Malayan Government towards the American Government if the American Government continues to trade with South Africa in spite of several Asian countries opposing the apartheid policy of the South African Government?
The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, we would not look at it with favour because we were the first country to bring pressure to bear on South Africa because of its apartheid policy; and we were the first to advocate the boycotting of the South African goods.

Naturally, we would like all countries in sympathy with our stand not to deal at all with South Africa.

On the other hand, if they feel that they must, because of certain requirements, it is something which we cannot stop.
Enche' V. David: Sir, if the American Government continues to trade with South Africa, will the Federation Government consider severing diplo matic relationship with the American Government?

(Laughter).

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, I the Honourable Prime have heard Minister on several occasions saying that he would sink or swim with America.

Mr Speaker: That has nothing to do with this question!

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr Speaker, Sir, is the Prime Minister aware that America by trading with South Africa in buying South African goods is, in fact, nourishing apartheid in South Africa?

If he is aware of that, what action would he take the disapproval of this country to the notice of the American Government?

to bring The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, as far as I know, America is sympathetic on our stand on apartheid.
As I said, there are certain obligations which, from her own domestic requirements, she has to pursue; and that is a thing which we cannot stop.

But, as far as I know and I can say with a feeling of certainty, that she is not in sympathy with the South African apartheid policy.
instructing Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr Speaker, Sir, since the Malayan Government has taken a certain stand in the United Nations, will the Prime Minister now consider the Malaysian Representative in the United Nations to bring to the notice of the world in the open Assembly of the United Nations that America should cease to nourish the roots of apartheid by trading with South Africa?

The Minister of Commerce and Indus try (Dr Lim Swee Aim): Sir, on a point of order—S.O.
24 (3) which reads: "Mr Speaker may allow supplementary questions to be put for the purpose of eluci dating any matter of fact regarding which an oral answer has been given, but he may refuse any such question which in his opinion in troduces matter not related to the original question " Sir, surely this question is not related to the original question!

The Prime Minister: I do not think we can, and I do not think it matters to them whether we have relations with them or not.
When we have diplomatic relations with them, we feel very much secured against communist aggression.

Mr Speaker: Sometimes the Ministers reply before I give my ruling.

(Laughter) I have already reminded the Honourable Ministers that they need not reply to supplementary questions which require notice.

However, sometimes, before I can 2603 18 DECEMBER 1963 2604 make my ruling, one of the Ministers would get up and reply.
I will not stop any Minister who would reply to a question which is not relevant to the original question.

I know that Standing Order very well.

(Laughter).

Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to know whether the Prime Minister is prepared to answer my question as to whether he will consider bringing up this matter in the United Nations ?

Mr Speaker: That question is ruled out of order!

(Laughter).

DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH CUBA 5.


Enche' V. David asks the Minister of External Affairs whether the Govern ment is considering to restore diplo matic relation with Cuba.

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, there has never been any diplomatic relation with Cuba, so the question of restoring it does not arise.

(Laughter).

Enche' V. David: Will the Govern ment consider having diplomatic rela tionship with Cuba?
The Prime Minister: Sir, that is quite a different question, but I am quite prepared to answer it.

(Laughter).

We do not consider establishing diplomatic relation with Cuba, because we are short there are of personnel.

In fact, as countries on terms of friendship with us to whom we can't send any represen tative at all—countries such as Canada —we feel that before we could attend to the other countries like Cuba and so on, we shall first think of sending missions to countries which are very close to us.
Mr Speaker: Again, I cannot apply this Standing Order 24.

(Laughter).

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, since the Prime Minister has been kind enough to reply despite the Standing Order, would he extend his kindness by saying whether it is because Cuba is not within the Western bloc?

The Prime Minister: Well, he reads my mind quite well, in the sense that it is quite true.
But as I said, we have other commitments which we should attend to first, before we could attend to countries that are not, I might say, on the best terms of friendship with us.

Enche' V. David: Is it because purely that America would not favour such a diplomatic relation with Cuba?

Mr Speaker: I would not allow that question.

DECLARATION OF ASSETS BY MINISTERS 6.


Enche' V. David asks the Prime Minister whether he is prepared to call upon the Members of his Cabinet to declare their assets including those in the name of their wives before and after their appointment as Ministers.

The Prime Minister: Sir, this question has been asked before and I can assure this House that all Ministers have been asked to declare their assets, and they have all done so.
But on the question of declaring the assets of the wives of the Ministers, we are not obliged to do so under the Regulations.

If, on the other hand, the Honourable Member to report, or if he is has anything civic-minded enough report any matter which he suspects that there has been dishonest dealing by the Minister or his wife, then I would invite him, if he likes to, to send the information to me; or if he does not like it, to send the information the Anti-Corruption Department, or to the Police.
I can I would welcome assure him whatever information which the Honour able Member would like to bring up.

that to to Enche' V. David: This question was asked purely to place the Ministers and their families in the confidence of the people and in high integrity.
Again, Sir, when I say their wives should declare their assets, I have in mind that there may be Members of the Cabinet whose wives are having shares in firms which they should not do—shares which would have been obtained because of the position of the Ministers.

So, it would be safer that the wives also declare so that they will be placed above suspicion.

Will the Prime Minister consider this, Sir?


The Prime Minister: Well, this matter has to be discussed first because, as I say, 2605 18 DECEMBER 1963 2606 there is no law, no provision in the General Orders, or anything, to force a wife to declare her possession, or to prevent a wife from doing any business of her own, so long as the business which she does is not connected with the Ministry of her husband.
Just because her husband happens to be a Government servant, or a Minister, is no reason to ask the whole family to starve.

It is enough the husband has got to shoulder all the burden or the yoke, without having to force the wife to suffer.

But as I said, if there is infor mation that a wife is using her husband's position to make money, or to do business, then that is something which we could deal with under the Anti- Corruption Ordinance.
Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam (Ipoh): Mr Speaker, Sir, could the Honourable the Prime Minister tell us whether he is aware that there has been more than the Anti-Corruption one against either one or more of the Ministers of this Government?

report to The Prime Minister: I have not received any information or report.

But on the question of wives, sometimes it is dangerous to tie them down to anything because some husbands are entitled to four wives.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: I am not talking about the wives; I am talking about the Ministers themselves.

Is the Honourable the Prime Minister aware that there has been more than one report against Ministers of this Government ?

Mr Speaker: He is not aware of it.

Enche' Chan Yoon Onn (Kampar): Mr Speaker, Sir, when and where could the House know about the disclosure of assets of the Ministers ?

The Prime Minister: It is not for the information of the House, Mr Speaker, Sir.
Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, jikalau Perdana Menteri tidak sedar berkenaan dengan pergadohan saperti itu, boleh-kah dia chuba menyiasat dalam hal itu?

Telah ada di-ma'alumkan bahawa Yang Ber- hormat Perdana Menteri sedar bahawa terhadap sa-orang telah ada report Menteri, atau isteri-nya dan Perdana Menteri telah menjawab bahawa dia tidak sedar, dan jikalau dia sedar, boleh-kah dia menyatakan?

The Prime Minister: Boleh.


Jikalau Ahli Yang Berhormat itu memberi keterangan, saya tetap akan menyiasat- nya.

Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bukan maksudkan bagi menyiasat case itu, tetapi menyiasat anti-corruption, me nyiasat report anti-corruption itu ada sampai atau tidak ?

Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam (Meng- lembu): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Prime Minister has invited us to submit to him complaints against Ministers, if any.
Will he give an assurance that the result of the investigation will be communicated to the complainant, or are we to remain in the dark for ever?

The Prime Minister: We will inform the complainant because he is entitled to know about it, because he laid the report.

But the unfortunate part of it is that nobody ever lay any report.

They only come to see me when they want something from me.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: Mr Speaker, Sir, that answer given by the Honourable Prime Minister is shocking, because I myself did see him and make a report of possible corruption within the State of Perak some two years back.

The Prime Minister: Well, I remember that, and I do not know what had happened—it is so long ago.

But I think the Honourable Member is satis fied with investigation we had carried out, because he never came back to me again.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

the Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr Speaker, Sir, how is the Prime Minister to know whether there is corruption or not, if he just sees that his Ministers are outwardly as poor as they were before or just as rich, but he does not know whether their wives have become millionairess or multi-millionairess ?

The Prime Minister: I do not know anybody's wife is a millionairess here.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

2607 18 DECEMBER 1963 2608 STATEMENT BY THE PRIME MINISTER Indonesian Sabotage Plot The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, I have a little statement to make for the information of Honourable Members of this House.

I am just taking the opportunity as this House is sitting to report on the day to day occurrences on the international platform.
Honou rable Members will recall the statement I made in this House on the 11th December to the effect that Indonesia had recruited our young men to fight for them in West Irian.

At the time when the Indonesian authorities were busy recruiting volunteers, I had my suspicion, because in my mind they have no dearth of young men to fight the battle for them.

There was, in fact, no need for the Federation to recruit our young men.

Now, I feel that my suspicion has been well founded.
to come them to indicated I have already in my statement last week that these people were never sent to West Irian to fight at all, but instead were subjected by the Indonesians to an intensive training on anti-Malaysia propaganda.

When the Indonesian authorities were con vinced that these men could be used for their purpose, they then were sent back to this country to organise.
On their return, immediately they were contacted by the Indonesian Embassy or officials of the Embassy here with the sole aim of forming secret organi sations in this country.

With the severance of diplomatic relations with Indonesia these people dispersed.

Some refused to have any thing more to do with this treacherous plan, but some continued to do so for money's worth.
So, these people with the help of secret agents established here are now taking part in subversive activities with the aim of overthrowing this Government and to win adherents for this purpose.

Many of them have been rounded up and interrogated, and some have not been found anywhere in this country—it is presumed, there fore, that they must have gone back to Indonesia.
the from infiltration of There are in our midst organisations now to wreck this country by fair or by foul means—mostly you can take it for granted by foul means.

Unfortunately.

even some of the organisations, which are known to be above board, are not free these agents.

A few members of UMNO have been taken in by the Police.

It things, it shows shows above other beyond all that action taken by the Authority is not to wreck any Opposition party but to try and control the activities of our enemy.
We are fortunate, however, in that many of the trainees have been loyal enough to break away from these organisations and as a result of which we have obtained quite a lot of infor mation of the activities of the secret agents.

reasonable doubt, The Government has known for some time that the Indonesian Government has created an intelligence organisation on Pulau Sakupang, an island in the Rhio archipelago, a few miles south of Singapore.
It is led by the previous Indonesian Assistant Naval Attache in Singapore by the name of Lieutenant Bambang Partono.

This organisation is running training courses in a camp on the island.

Apart from the usual military training which lasts three months, the courses include detailed instructions on sabotage technique such as destruction of vital lines, petrol dumps, and so forth.
installations, railway This Indonesian organisation on Pulau Sakupang is said to be in control of a network of agents in the Peninsula and in Singapore, whose task is to lure Malaysians to go to this island with promise of money and jobs.

I am able to reveal this, because one of those who attended the first course had defected to us.

Furthermore, he had made it quite clear that he was recruited by a certain Indonesian agent in this country on the promise of good pay and a good job.
Let there be no doubt about it.

He and a number of others were tricked into going there and had made no secret about their return.

This person has told us that other courses are to follow soon—and I may say that one is going on now.

It is these known that on return, it on their 2609 18 DECEMBER 1963 2610 to blow up Johore trained saboteurs were to attack vital installations which it was hoped would to a standstill.
bring our economy the They had planned water mains between and Singapore, the Pasir Panjang Power Station, and various other targets country.

However, the throughout prompt measures taken by the Govern ment to ensure the strictest security of vulnerable targets foiled their plan.

So, they turned against the civil population.

Their aim was to create alarm and despondency in the public mind, thereby enhancing confrontation.
The apparent indiscriminatory destruc tion of cars by the so-called mad the bomber of Singapore has been handy-work of some of these agents.

As a result, you may have read that that caused the death of two innocent persons.

Indonesia's three As I said before, the Government had been investigating for some time, and during the last few days the Police had already arrested 23 persons in Singapore, seven in Kelantan, four in Johore, and in Selangor.
All those arrested had either attended this course on Pulau Sakupang, or were as Indonesian agents directly involved in those recruitment and despatch of training.

Many of selected for this those arrested are, luckily enough, co-operative with the Government, and now realise that they had been misled by the blandishments of the Indonesian recruiting agents.
In Singapore the Police have recovered loaded sten guns, primed hand grenades of Indonesian army origin, a large quantity of gelignite, and miscellaneous sabotage equipment.

As a long-term plan, the Indonesians are said to intend to form what they call battalions to carry out an armed revolution in this country: one battalion to be raised in Singapore, two battalions in Johore, one battalion in Kelantan.
This dream their stupidity, but the arms and explosives we have recovered indicate the extremes to which they are prepared to go.

is a measure of Another matter of considerable in terest to Honourable Members of this House is the way the Peninsula Malay that Union, or P.M.U., has become involved in the ramifications of this organisation.

Let me describe how Lieut.

Bambang Partono has bribed one Abdul Kahar, the Vice-President of P.M.U., with a sum of $25,000 to revive the P.M.U.

as a political party.


Abdul Kahar, who the is now under arrest, accepted money and among other things was made responsible to recruit P.M.U.

members to be sent for military training to Indonesia.

At this point, I should the Government has clear say evidence of secret, illegal, organisations within the P.M.U.

in Kelantan, Kedah the seven persons and Johore.


All arrested received in Kelantan have military training on Pulau Sakupang illegal, and are members of secret, organisations in Kelantan under the Peninsula Malay Union.

Among the persons arrested are several Indonesians their agents, who have been and recruiting these saboteurs.

One of the senior Indonesian leaders from Pulau Sakupang is in our hands now.
Together with these persons are a number of armed Malaysians—luckily the number is very small—who have shown that they are willing to work for a foreign power, and for money they are prepared to carry out the Indonesian policy of to extreme lengths.

If confrontation left unhampered, they would have continued their callous acts of violence.

These happenings give the lie to state ments by Subandrio and his lackey Azahari that the incidents in Malaysia are spontaneous and not Indonesia inspired.
I lay these facts before the House, and I am sure that Honourable Mem bers will join with me in condemning the action not only of these criminal and traitorous saboteurs but of the cowardly persons, who have directed their criminal activities from Indonesia (Applause).

BILLS THE ROAD TRAFFIC (AMEND MENT) BILL Second Reading Order read for resumption of debate on motion, "That the Bill be now read a second time".

(17th December, 1963).


2611 18 DECEMBER 1963 2612 The Minister of Transport (Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya menyambong balek uchapan saya pada petang sa-malam.

Oleh kerana banyak Ahli2 Yang Ber- hormat telah memberi pandangan dan fikiran, saya terpaksa juga menerangkan supaya jelas, terutama sa-kali berkenaan dengan dasar2 pengangkutan.
Sa-malam saya telah berchakap berkenaan dengan mengeluarkan permit atau kebenaran kereta2 sewa, tetapi di-mana2 negeri yang had (quota) peratus orang Melayu itu telah penoh, di-buka kapada semua bangsa, tetapi apabila di-adakan temu- duga bagaimana sharat2 yang di-kehen- daki ada juga di-datangkan tudohan daripada orang yang bukan Melayu.

Konon-nya, orang Melayu juga dapat tetapi telah di-bukakan kapada semua bangsa.
Sa-bagaimana saya katakan sa-malam orang yang bukan Melayu yang memohon itu apabila di-temuduga banyak yang tidak menjadi parajurit2.

Saya harap Ahli2 Yang Berhormat di-sini, pertama sa-kali dalam negeri2 yang sudah penoh quota Melayu-nya tersinggong faham, kerana tidak-lah kita ini tidak mengeluarkan permit atas nama China, Melayu atau India, tetapi atas sharat yang di-kehendaki supaya hendak menjalankan perniagaan pengangkutan itu.
Banyak juga yang telah keliru dan salah faham tentang soal bas, dasar Kerajaan bukan dasar yang di-chakap2- lima kan bahkan telah di-jalankan lama-nya, jalan2 yang baharu tahun atau jalan yang di-sambongkan jalan baharu, akan di-dapati istimewa pe- mohon2 daripada sharikat2 yang sudah 100% modal daripada orang Melayu.
Sa-kira-nya tidak 100% yang banyak modal orang Melayu, sa-kira-nya tidak ada mengikut perentah saya yang akhir, RIDA memohon supaya orang Melayu boleh mengumpulkan modal masok RIDA dengan akhir-nya dapat orang Melayu itu mengambil aleh daripada RIDA.
Jadi, ini bukan ma'ana me- nyekatkan sharikat2 bas yang bukan Melayu kerana sharikat2 yang bukan Melayu itu juga di-dalam bandar2 atau tempat2 yang sudah berjalan akan memohon banyak kali tambahan bas- nya kerana tempat2 yang mereka boleh jalankan itu ia-lah tempat yang ramai.
Dalam hal yang bagitu pun mereka bagaimana Yang Berhormat dari Sebe- telah menerangkan sa- rang Tengah malam dengan sukarela-nya membuka- kan 10% modal2 mereka itu kapada orang Melayu, tetapi malang-nya modal2 yang datang daripada orang Melayu ini terlampau lambat kerana sharikat2 itu merojokkan kapada Kementerian saya.
Saya menyeru kapada orang Melayu bukan sahaja masok modal supaya mereka apabila habis modal yang berpatutan boleh-lah ada pe- ngarah2 juga daripada orang Melayu dan di-situ dapat-lah mengadakan dasar supaya orang Melayu juga mengambil bahagian dan di-ambil menjadi pekerja2 mengikut-lah yang munasabah untok modal Melayu dan memberi orang Melayu tentang pekerjaan.
lori2 Yang ketiga, lori, ini soal lori, soal Undang2 tidak timbul, chuma timbul- nya apabila ada keterangan2 waktu di-siasat yang menjalankan perniagaan pengangkutan atau nieng- angkut barang2 yang tidak menchukupi dengan keterangan yang ada di-bawa, di-beri beberapa orang yang memohon maka baharu-lah Majlis Pelesen Pusat atau negeri itu yang mana kita chadang- kan sa-buah sahaja itu akan bersetuju menambah.
Dan sa-kira-nya bersetuju menambah, 100% kompeni Melayu maka baharu-lah istimewa kapada datang timbangan kompeni2 Melayu yang memohon dengan ada kekurangan lori di-kawasan itu akan di-timbangkan dan di-beri peruntokan.

atau jika ada saya perkara pengangkutan Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah (Kota Bharu Hilir): Boleh-kah tahu daripada Menteri Yang Berhormat di- dalam ini, kenapa-kah satu saudagar Melayu yang bernama Haji Abd.
Majid meminta supaya di-buat extension bagi permit yang ada itu supaya dapat membawakan getah daripada Kelantan ka-Kuala Lumpur, sebab apa di-tolak?

Mr Speaker: Order!

order!

Saya hendak mengingatkan bahawa awak bangun kerana hendak memberi clarifi cation, bukan-nya boleh menyoal?

Berma'ana di-dalam Standing Order itu Yang Berhormat itu berchakap tidak kena atau salah pada tempat-nya, 2613 18 DECEMBER 1963 2614 itu hendak minta di-betulkan, itu boleh.
Saya hendak mengingatkan lagi, kita berbahath ini atas principle atau dasar pindaan Undang2 yang ada di-hadapan Majlis ini.

Dalam jawapan Menteri Yang Berhormat baharu2 ini banyak nampak-nya perkara2 yang tidak kena mengena sama sa-kali dengan dasar pindaan Undang2 ini.

Saya sendiri sudah membacha pindaan ini tidak ada berkenaan dengan orang Melayu untok mendapat lesen, itu tidak ada di-dalam pindaan ini.
Saya perchaya perkara itu barangkali ada di-bangkitkan oleh beberapa orang sa-malam, saya tidak tahu macham mana sudah di-benarkan berchakap, jadi terpaksa juga Menteri Yang Berhormat menjawab-nya.

Tetapi, saya minta-lah apabila hendak men- jawabkan, atau di-tumpukan jawapan itu atas pindaan yang ada di-hadapan ini.

jangan-lah panjang Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Terima kaseh, kerana ada 16 orang yang telah berchakap kapada pindaan ini, saya rengkaskan sahaja menjawab- nya.
Oleh kerana mengikut nasihat Tuan Pengerusi, saya minta-lah semua Ahli Yang Berhormat mengambil inga- section 118 di-dalam Undang2 tan Lalu Lintas No.
49/58 terang dan jelas di-perundang2kan 118 bab 45 muka 87 yang berbunyi: "Subject to the provisions of sub-sections (2), (3) and (4) of this section, the Licensing Board in exercising its discretion in this section shall give preference to any application from a Malay or a company with preponderant part, or if there is no such company suitable, a substan tial part of whose capital is owned by Malays, over any other applications/' rengkas Maka itu-lah dengan rengkas saya menjawab kapada Ahli2 Yang Ber hormat sa-malam berchakap berjela2 atas soal orang2 Melayu tidak ada memberi akuan dalam Perlembagaan atau Undang2 yang telah saya bachakan, saya dengan memadai-lah jawab.
Banyak juga Ahli2 Yang Berhor mat yang berkeliru berkenaan dengan bab Undang2 yang kita hendak pinda, satu peratoran2 pemohon permit2 dalam 10 buah Majlis Pelesen Kawasan dan sa-buah pusat dengan hanya sa-buah sahaja.
Ini bukan tujuan hendak me- lambatkan atau hendak mengurangkan perhubongan orang Melayu dengan Registrar, tidak jadi soal di-situ, yang ini sa-benar-nya kerana pengalaman tiga tahun yang Kementerian telah menjalankan Undang2 ini, elok-lah di-adakan sa-buah yang mengandongi 8 ahli2-nya dan sa-orang Pengerusi dengan dua orang daripada lapan orang ahli itu apabila hadhir sudah chukup bilangan.
Dengan ada-nya lapan orang dapat bergilir2 dan permohon2 permit itu sama ada hendak memohon teksi, lori atau pun bas, sama ada di-dalam negeri atau beberapa buah negeri selalu tiap2 hari atau di-adakan tiap2 bulan, sebab itu kita daripada pehak Kerajaan memikirkan pada waktu ini pemohon untok dua tiga buah negeri sama ada lori atau bas di- bicharakan di-Ibu Kota di-Petaling Jaya, ini tidak-lah menjadi kesusahan kapada orang ramai.
tidak-lah Sebab itu Majlis Pelesen ini dari satu masa ka-satu masa yang di-tentukan dengan mengikut bilangan pemohon2 akan pergi ka-Pusat2 Pelesen sama ada di-Pulau Pinang, di-Alor Star, di-Kota Bharu, di-Kuantan dan di-lain2 tempat sa-bagai menyenangkan orang ramai dan melekaskan kerja2-nya.

ramai Wakil yang telah bersalah faham di-atas Pindaan Undang2 Majlis Pelesen tidak di-tukar2kan chara Majlis ini Penyiasat bagi menguntokkan taxi2 ini, itu akan berjalan saperti biasa juga.
Saya minta-lah Ahli Yang Berhormat yang telah berchakap semalam dari Kubang Pasu Barat, kalau saya tidak salah dia mengatakan dengan sebab di-tukarkan tidak ini, orang dapat berhubong dengan Registrar atau Pendaftar.

Yang sa-benar-nya Pendaftar ini sa-lama-nya sebok dengan mem- bicharakan temuduga, jadi tidak dapat banyak menjalankan kuasa2 menguatkan Undang2.
Bagitu juga dengan Pegawai2 Kanan-nya maka ini akan memberi peluang bagi pehak orang ramai dapat bertemu dan bertanya apa yang dia tidak faham kapada pendapat Pegawai Kanan di-dalam pejabat2 di-seluroh negeri ini dan dapat berkhidmat kapada orang ramai lebeh daripada waktu-nya.
Saya hendak menjawab semua sa-kail tudohan2 yang di-bawa oleh Yang Berhormat wakil dari Damansara, konon-nya Kerajaan hari ini baharu sedar hendak mengambil tindakan kerana banyak kemalangan2 dan maseh 2615 18 DECEMBER 1963 2616 itu lombong telah bertukar tidak puas hati tiap2 pemohon2 keretapi.

Malang-nya lagi tindakan yang di-ambil itu.


Saya faham sa-bagai Yang Berhormat dari Damansara atau dari- pada Socialist Front tentu-lah dasar mereka itu hendak menjadi hak negara semua kenderaan2 ini tetapi beliau tidak berchakap, kalau beliau mengatakan patut Kerajaan akan membahagikan peluang kapada kereta lebeh lagi tetapi beliau sa-bagai sa-orang Lawyer juga faham lori pehak keretapi di-benarkan membangkang alasan yang kuat.
Pehak dengan Kerajaan dan saya sendiri sa-bagai Menteri yang berkenaan terutama sa- kali berkenaan dengan lombong2 ini, tauke2 hendak sa-belum lori2 ada-lah di-arahkan memohon berunding dengan pehak keretapi dan dasar-nya telah pun di-jalankan dan banyak keretapi dapat membawa lom bong2 batu itu dan itu-lah menguntong- apabiia kan lombong2 tempat dan tidak menggunakan jalan keretapi jadi jabatan keretapi ada mempunyai kerugian sadikit tetapi pada tahun ini pehak keretapi rugi banyak bukan-lah fasal kurang cargo itu tetapi fasal naik Ini bukan-lah mismanagement gaji.
tudohon dari pehak saperti mana tidak Pembangkang kata, keretapi chukup di-jaga.

Kita memang chukup jaga dan kita akan adakan sa-orang expert untok menyiasat bagaimana boleh mengurangkan dan menambahkan hasil-nya.
Dan beliau menudoh juga apabiia melantek ahli2, jangan-lah melantek pemuda2 UMNO, orang yang mengampu dia dalam kempen election, ini menunjokkan pehak Pembangkang; kalau barangkali pehak yang berchakap Yang Berhormat dari Damansara atau daripada Socialist Front kalau party-nya menubohkan Kerajaan boleh jadi dia buat macham itu.
Tetapi pehak kami Perikatan dan Kerajaan Perikatan, suka-lah menerangkan kapada Ahli Yang Ber hormat itu, saya telah melantek sa-orang daripada-nya ia-lah bekas Hakim Besar Makhamah Tinggi dan orang2 yang terkenal tahu selok belok Tanah Melayu ini bukan sa-barang orang sahaja.

Saya sendiri telah mengatakan kalau sa-orang politik yang dudok di-sana tentu-lah tidak kena gaya-nya, jadi nampak-nya perbelanjaan saya tahun mendesak melulu sahaja tudohan itu dan hendak memburokkan Kerajaan.
Ini-lah saya sangat dukachita kapada pehak Pem bangkang ini pada hal dalam Pindaan Undang2 ini ada satu bab yang mana pehak Bangsar berkali2 dalam Budget Meeting atau Meshuarat Kewangan supaya tiap mengadakan satu Undang2 yang driver2 lori ini patut adakan Undang2 sukatan tidak bekerja adakan Pindaan Undang2 dan sekarang ini ada Pindaan Undang2-nya tetapi tidak ada sa-orang pun yang berchakap, tidak ada sa-orang pun yang mengulas tetapi mereka mengaku diri mereka jagoh kapada pehak2 buroh.
berlebeh2an, saya Mr Speaker: Kalau dia tidak mengulas, ta' usah-lah di-jawab lagi.

yang Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Kapada pehak Pembangkang ini, kita terima bangkangan2 dan ulasan2-nya yang baik dan saya uchapkan terima kaseh-lah.

Berbalek saya kapada wakil Ipoh, saya uchapkan berbanyak terima kaseh kapada P.P.P.

yang menyokong penoh Pindaan Undang2 ini kerana memang baik chuma ada satu sahaja fasal pakai badge ini menambahkan lagi lesen.
Saya perchaya beliau tidak akan berchakap demikian sa-kira-nya Yang Berhormat sahabat saya dari Larut Utara tidak mencheritakan pan- jang kesah terjuntai2 serta terhayon2 pakai badge ini.

Jadi sebab salah satu sa-benar mengenakan tujuan pemandu2 lori ini memakai badge atau tanda mengikut bagaimana yang telah Kerajaan lama, kapada pemandu kereta taxi dan kapada pemandu2 bus dan juga kapada kon- dakter2 atau penjaga tiket bus itu ada memakai badge juga.
Sebab mereka2 itu ada mempunyai satu lesen yang lain daripada membawa kereta atau bus, ini menunjokkan dia telah lulus segala2 apa juga yang di-ketahui sa-bagai orang yang hendak memandu taxi atau bus.

Tetapi malang-nya sa-lama ini pemandu2 lori ini tidak ada: barangkali pada zaman dahulu lori2 ini oleh sebab jalan2 pun lebar, lori2 pun laju membawa muatan yang berat2 saperti kayu2 yang beberapa hela dan itu 50 dan 60 batu satu jam, ini tidak boleh di-nafikan.
jalankan beberapa laju-nya lori 2617 18 DECEMBER 1963 2618 Tiap2 tahun di-dalam persidangan perbelanjaan, pehak Yang Berhormat saya, telah merayu dengan sendiri macham mana hendak mengkontrolkan driver2 daripada melajukan lori-nya itu.

Jadi saya telah berkira dua tahun ini, saya telah berhubong seluroh negeri ini, berhubong dengan pehak tauke2 lori menyatakan macham mana hendak kontrolkan driver2, dia kata kita tidak boleh kontrolkan, terpulang-lah kapada Menteri untok mengelokkan-nya.
Jadi perkara ini kalau di-pulangkan kapada Menteri saya akan siasat yang elok ini ia-lah di-bahagikan kapada pemandu2 lori satu lesen istimewa kerana mem- bawa lori itu mesti-lah lulus dan tahu chara2 Highway Code bagitu dan bagini, baharu-lah kita bagi kerana hendak memandu lori.

Jadi dengan ada-nya lesen ini sa-kira-nya mereka itu lari laju satu daripada sharat-nya dia mesti- lah jangan larikan sampai 35 batu satu jam.
Dia juga di-mestikan pass doctor kesihatan yang chukup dan mesti mengikut apa yang telah di-tentukan oleh pehak Kerajaan.

Jadi dengan itu Enforcement Officer atau chara pegawai2 yang menjalankan kuat-kuasa ini boleh memanggil driver2 yang laju itu dan di-berikan amaran.

Pertama sa-kali kita ma'afkan yang kedua kali lesen-nya kerana hendak kita memandu lori sa-lama sa-minggu, kalau tiga kali kita boleh tahan membawa lori ini.
Jadi ini-lah tujuan yang sa- benar-nya, bukan hendak menyusahkan pemandu2 atau bukan hendak chari hasil.

tahan tahun 1953 sampai Banyak pehak Ahli2 Yang Berhormat terutama sa-kali Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Melaka Utara mengatakan, kenapa tidak kita kontrolkan dia punya had laju—accelerator-nya di-tutup atau pun di-seal, itu pun sudah kami buat ya'ani daripada tahun 1955 telah dua tahun.
Jadi lori2 yang membawa barang2 berat dan jalan di-negeri kita ini gunong-ganang, kalau di-tutup accelerator-nya 30, 35 apabila lori itu hendak naik gunong yang tinggi dan churam, jadi dia tidak boleh naik terus-menurus, ini membawa ke malangan pula.

Habis, dia berhentikan lori-nya dan ambil sekuru driver keringok ini saya sudah (Ketawa), chuba dua tahun, daripada tahun 1953 chara initiative—satu sampai tahun 1955 ini pegawai saya yang memberitahu.
Jadi sudah kita chuba, mata2 sudah summon pun, pergi ka-Makhamah sudah 6 bulan baharu bichara, saksi tiada ada, buang kes.

Ini-lah alasan-nya daripada Pejabat Kenderaan sendiri akan mengambil dengan satu administrative ini lebeh memberi bekas.

Kerana pemandu lori ini kirakan hendak duit trip—pergi banyak trip, banyak duit-nya.

Kita boleh panggil dia dan tahan lesen.

Kalau dia sudah tidak ada kerja, hendak buat dua kali, sa-belum melajukan kereta tentu dia berfikir dua kali.
Saya harap terutama sa-kali Yang Berhormat dari Larut Utara boleh-lah itu fikirkan kerana saya fikir badge kalau tidak mahu di-tarokkan di-poket, kita boleh rundingkan di-mana hendak tarok badge itu asalkan boleh nampak.

Kalau badge itu di-kalongkan susah pula nanti kita katakan macham lesen anjing pula.

Jadi kita tidak hendak buat bagitu tetapi kita boleh rundingkan perkara ini kerana perkara ini bukan perkara baharu.
Maka, saya minta-lah soal kochek penoh dengan licence itu, saya fikir soal licence yang sudah ada itu tidak timbul.

Ahli Yang Berhormat itu sendiri sa-malam telah mengeluarkan badge-nya, saya nampak chuma satu badge sahaja yang di-bawa-nya oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat itu sa-malam; itu pun ta' penoh kochek-nya.

Maka biar-lah kita ini berpandu kapada tujuan undang2 ini.

Sudah di-kenakan kapada tuan2 lori itu, ta' dapat juga.
Kita sudah tutup dia punya accelerator supaya jangan lari laju lebeh daripada 35 batu satu jam, dia buka pula kerana merbahaya.

peluang kapada kami menjalankan sa-kali ini.

Jadi, beri-lah Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Bachok berkata dia ta' perchaya yang perkara ini boleh berjaya dalam perkara yang saperti ini.

Insha' Allah sama2-lah kita bekerjasama, saya akan tunjokkan bukti- nya, insha' Allah kita akan berjaya.

Beri-lah peluang dan sokong kapada kami.


Dan lagi bagitu juga Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Sungei Patani.

Ini bawa kereta driving, ma'alum-lah kata beliau sudah dapat kemalangan, kemalangan ta' berbau, nasib baik kena $30 sahaja.

Sekarang ini pula kata-nya 6 bulan kena $1,000.


kata-nya careless 2619 18 DECEMBER 1963 2620 laju tidak ada di-tangkap, Maka undang2 yang di-buat ini di-beri satu maximum, atau yang paling tinggi tetapi beliau $1,000 atau 6 bulan, sendiri pun di-saman, chuma kena $30 kerana menengokkan keadaan di-situ lichin dan dia lari ta' laju, selekoh ta' di-situ dia sangka yang boleh tetapi ma'alum-lah skip merbahaya, itu skip juga.

Jadi perkara itu kita pulangkan-lah kapada Mahkamah.
Undang2 ini bukan-lah hendak mem- beratkan, atau hendak menghukom orang2 yang hendak lari laju dengan tidak ada keterangan2 yang lengkap.

Dan saya suka juga hendak menerang kan kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari La rut Utara yang mengatakan fasal ada sa-buah company lori yang lari laju ta' ada di-saman licence2-nya.

Ini bukan fasal lari sahaja boleh di-tangkap.

Perkara ini hendak di-bicharakan da- ini memakan waktu, hulu.

Bichara apabiia di-jatohkan hukom, baharu-lah dia kena hukom.
Maka saya minta-lah kapada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat, kalau hendak berchakap jangan menyentoh kapada polis, menyentoh kapada pejabat2 ini.

Kita hendak-lah iikir dahulu, sa-belum di-dapati salah, maka hendak-lah di-bicharakan dan lepas itu hendak ada keterangan pula.

Kadang2 polis itu ta' kuasa hendak menangkap-nya, kerana bila di-bawa ka-Mahkamah, ta' chukup keterangan, buang case.
Maka ini-lah chara yang hendak menyenangkan bagi kita men- jalankan-nya, ikhtiar chara pentadbiran saya minta kapada Ahli2 dan ini beri-lah sokongan kapada pegawai2 dan Kementerian saya, insha' Allah pada tahun hadapan kita akan baiki lagi keadaan2 yang sa-umpama ini.
tolong-lah Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Bachok mengatakan dia ada bacha surat khabar yang kata-nya Menteri Kerja Raya apabiia hendak buka jalan raya ba haru—sing 100 meter, kata-nya Menteri Kerja Raya itu menggunakan kereta Mercedes, yang sa-benar-nya bukan kereta Mercedes, tetapi kereta Lancia.

Kereta Lancia itu boleh lari laju sampai 140 batu satu jam.
Jadi, pada waktu itu saya ada di-sabelah-nya, bukan fasal lari kuat atau laju, tetapi pada masa itu ia-lah hendak membuka jalan baharu dan pula ta' ada orang.

Dia hendak chuba kereta itu pergi jalan baharu ka-Klang, kalau tengah2 jalan itu orang ta' boleh menyeberang, kerana tinggi sempadan-nya itu.

Jadi jalan itu ia-lah untok hendak melekaskan per- jalanan yang sa-kurang2-nya 60 batu satu jam.

Kalau 70 atau 80 batu satu jam, itu di-panggil closing speed.
Ma- cham di-negeri2 Eropah pula di-panggil autobahn, kalau kita jalan ka-bawah daripada 60 batu satu jam, orang itu akan kena saman.

Dia ada berlorong2 pula, ta' boleh berhenti kalau kereta itu rosak.

Kalau dia hendak berhenti, terpaksa keluar daripada tempat itu.

Dia sa-bagai Menteri Kerja Raya hendak chuba macham mana dia punya jalan.
Maka Yang Berhormat itu sa- bagai Menteri Kerja Raya yang mem- buat jalan, dan Menteri Pengangkutan pula ada di-sabelah-nya hendak me- nengok sama di-tempat itu, bukan ada manusia, itu saya akui yang saya ada di-situ pada waktu itu dan saya telah beri amaran kapada beliau, jangan buat macham itu lagi di-tempat2 lain.

Ini sa-benar-nya cherita, fasal hendak menengok keadaan jalan itu, dan kita hendak mengetahui pula jalan di-negeri kita ini saperti autobahn di-Tanah Melayu ini.
Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Bachok dia kata reckless driving dan bagitu bagini.

Saya uchapkan terima kaseh kapada Menteri Muda Pembangunan Luar Bandar Sarawak yang telah pun tetapi yang menerangkan sa-malam, sa-benar-nya bagini: Mengikut undang2 Panel Code 304 (a) mengikut undang2 Inggeris yang lama dahulu, hendak mendapatkan kesalahan itu dia hendak- lah chukup dia punya negligence.

Jadi apabiia perkara itu di-bawa ka-Mah kamah, banyak yang buang case.
Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Ipoh sa-bagai peguam dia juga menyokong undang2 ini.

Dengan ada-nya pindaan section (3) yang ada di-dalam pindaan ini, dia punya prove gross negligence itu ta' bagitu kuat.

Maka hendak-lah di-tengok jalan itu sama ada laju-kah atau tidak.

Kalau jalan itu kechil, banyak kereta, waktu hujan dia jalan lebeh daripada biasa yang di-hadkan di-situ, maka sudah chukup-lah bukti-nya yang dia itu salah.
Sebab itu dia punya hukom tidak-lah paling tinggi $1,000 tetapi 2621 18 DECEMBER 1963 2622 Saya uchapkan berbanyak selalu kena maximum, melainkan dua tiga kali kalau buat salah saperti itu.
sa-bagai mengurangkan Ini ada-lah pemandu2 kereta yang lalai, maka sebab itu-lah dengan ada-nya banyak di-bicharakan, kena hukom, walau pun hukoman itu tidak berat, tetapi dia akan sedar yang jalan2 raya itu bukan untok kegunaan dia sahaja, tetapi juga untok kegunaan orang ramai yang hendak menggunakan-nya dan kea- manan mesti-lah kita sama2 jaga di-situ.
terima kaseh kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Jitra-Padang Terap yang men- chadangkan bukan sahaja menyokong tetapi kalau boleh fasal badge di-tarok gambar pemandu kereta itu di-sabelah kiri-nya apabila penumpang itu naik, dia boleh nampak.

Nampak tetapi kita ta' hendak membanyakkan belanja lagi, dan oleh kerana itu saya akan timbangkan, kalau sa-kira-nya badge itu ta' memadai nanti, kita akan timbangkan.

Di-atas chadangan-nya itu saya uchapkan banyak terima kaseh.
itu sa-memang elok, supaya itu, Ada sa-ramai enam belas orang Ahli2 Yang Berhormat yang telah mengambil bahagian berchakap ber- kenaan dengan Rang Undang2 Pindaan kebanyakan-nya ini berchakap berulang2 itu juga, tetapi bab berkenaan dengan kenderaan ini, saya tidak akan banyak berchakap di-atas perkara itu.
sa-malam dan ini Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Baling pada kali telah menchadangkan supaya ahli yang sa-ramai lapan orang itu patut di-tambah menjadi sa-belas tiap2 buah Negeri orang ahli bagi tiap2 sa-buah Negeri ada di-mana sa-orang wakil-nya.
Ini saya berasa dukachita, kerana saya ta' dapat hendak menerima chadangan-nya itu, dan kalau tiap2 buah Negeri hendak di-adakan, saya fikir susah juga saperti mana yang ada pada hari ini, sedangkan saya hendak melantek empat orang bagi tiap2 buah Negeri itu, kadang2 saya tunggu sampai enam bulan ta' dapat nama2 orang itu.

Saya berpendapat lapan orang ahli ini sudah chukup memadai', kerana dua orang ahli boleh buat empat kali giliran, maka kalau perlu kita akan timbangkan pada masa hadapan.
itu ada itu belum Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Larut Utara meminta istimewa supaya di- adakan sa-buah Majlis Pelesen untok orang2 Melayu sahaja.

Saya berpendapat kalau Majlis Pelesen itu hendak di- adakan bagi orang2 Melayu sahaja, barangkali Mahkamah juga untok orang2 Melayu sahaja.

Majlis Pelesen ini bukan-lah Mahkamah, tetapi di-sifatkan sa-bagai semi-judicial.
Jadi apabila had quota berkenaan dengan lagi penoh, orang2 taxi bukan Melayu ta' dapat hendak di-duga untok orang2 Melayu, tetapi Majlis Pelesen tentu-lah kita perchaya ini terdiri daripada orang2 yang memang faham dari segi undang2, faham dari segi lain2 juga dan semua-nya itu ada peratoran2-nya.
Saya ta' dapat hendak menerima chadangan-nya tetapi kalau-lah hendak menyenangkan pada orang2 yang hendak memohon yang tidak tahu tentang chara2-nya, tidak tahu macham mana bagitu bagini, itu saya telah beri perentah kapada Pesu- rohjaya Pengangkutan Jalan Raya dan juga Pendaftar2 bagi menerangkan supaya dapat menolong orang2 yang hendak memohon lori2, teksi atau bas chara2-nya.

tentang macham mana Pegawai2 itu akan menasihatkan mereka itu sa-belum mereka memasokkan permohonan2-nya itu.
itu, lori di-beri dan Berkenaan dengan bangkangan dari pada bangsa2 asing—ini bukan bangsa2.

Saya minta Ahli2 Yang Berhormat tarek-lah balek berkenaan dengan tu- dohan bangsa, bukan fasal bangsa.

Ini dasar pengangkutan dalam negeri kita ini sa-lagi tidak ada kemahuan atau tambahan, maka tidak di-keluarkan peruntokan permit2 itu.
Kerana kalau tiap2 orang minta teksi di-beri, tiap2 tiap2 orang minta orang minta bas di-beri, maka berpuloh dan beratus ribu teksi, bas dan lori ini akan di-Tanah Melayu, maka merugikan.

Maka sebab itu-lah bang kangan ini bagi peluang kapada pehak yang telah menjalankan perniagaan, bukan sebab dia China, India atau Melayu, tetapi sebab dia sudah ada menjalankan perniagaan itu.
Maka sa- siapa yang hendak memohon di-tempat yang dia menjalankan itu, maka dia di-beri hak membangkang, tetapi Majlis Pelesen tidak mesti terganggu walau 2623 18 DECEMBER 1963 2624 10 loyar sa-kali pun dia pakai, atas keterangan2 yang di-bawa, maka di- situ-lah Majlis Pelesen akan menim- bangkan.
Saya berani berkata ada sa-tengah permohonan daripada pehak orang kita sendiri yang tidak pakai loyar pun mahu lori—pehak Pembang- kang di-sabelah sana ada tiga empat loyar—tetapi dengan keterangan yang chukup, maka mereka juga di-beri.

Sebab itu-lah saya harap tidak ada tudohan2 yang mengatakan kalau orang itu boleh kaya atau kompeni besar mengadakan banyak loyar.

Maka apa- lah harapan kita.

Ini-lah yang susah kalau kita hendak berniaga, chepat putus asa sa-belum menchuba lagi.
Jadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, memadai- lah saya jawab dengan sachara rengkas.

Saya menchadangkan Rang Undang2 ini di-bacha kali yang kedua dan di-luluskan.

Enche' Abdul Rauf bin A. Rahman (Krian Laut): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya harap Yang Berhormat Menteri Kenderaan dapat memberi penerangan bersangkut atau penjelasan dengan uchapan saya tentang cycle track itu supaya di-buat.
sadikit Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sunggoh pun saya tidak menjawab, tetapi Kerajaan telah menjalankan dasar itu, chuma menunggu giliran masing2.

Dalam bandar yang banyak kenderaan saperti Alor Star dan lain2 memang sudah ada peruntokan.

Saya akan berhubong dengan Menteri Kerja Raya, Pos dan Talikom, apabila kita membaharui jalan itu, maka cycle track atau jalan khas untok basikal akan dapat di-bena.

Question put, and agreed to.


Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.

House immediately resolved into a Committee on the Bill.

itself Bill considered in Committee.

Clauses 1-4— Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: Tuan dalam memberi jawapan berkenaan dengan "reckless and dangerous driving" Yang Ber Pengerusi, tidak hormat Menteri telah menyatakan ta'rif "recklessness" dan sa-bagai-nya.
Dan ini di-katakan— di-dalam perkataan "Any person who drives a motor vehicle on a road recklessly or at a speed or in a manner which having regard to all the circumstances (including the nature, condition and size of the road and the amount of traffic which is or might be expected to be on the road) is dangerous to the public shall be guilty of an offence "—saya hendak kapada Yang Berhormat bertanya Menteri kenapa di-nyatakan dengan tegas yang pertimbangan di-beri kapada "size of the car or vehicle" dengan barang2 yang di-bawa-nya?
Sebab ada-lah berbeza sa-buah motokar yang kechil yang laju di-dalam jalan yang sama dengan keadaan yang sama dengan sa-buah lori yang besar dengan mempunyai trailer dan sa-bagai-nya.

Kalau circumstances yang di-sebutkan itu mengandongi "nature, condition and size of the road" kenapa tidak di-sebut kan "power of the car or condition of the car itself?"
Jadi saya minta supaya Yang Berhormat Menteri memikirkan perkara ini, sebab sa-buah lori yang besar tidak sama bahaya-nya dengan motokar yang kechil di-dalam laju yang sama.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Pengerusi, mengikut pandangan Legal Draftsman, all the circumstances, tentang kechil besar itu di-pulangkan kapada mahkamah.

Kalau Mahkamah Kechil terpulang kapada Magistrate atau President of Session Court atau pun Hakim.
Jadi kalau kita hendak taroh segala2 dalam undang2 ini, jadi nampak-nya macham kita menyekat.

Jadi itu terpulang kapada timbangan- nya.

Sebab di-sini di-sebutkan—in a manner which having regard to all the circumstances—manner itu ada-lah ke adaan, tetapi saya perchaya siapa juga yang menghakimkan perbicharaan itu akan menimbangkan dari segala segi.

Tidak payah kita sebutkan lori-kah atau motokar sepot-kah.

Itu-lah yang saya itu-lah dapat menerangkan tujuan-nya.

Terima atas pandangan itu.


ia-itu kaseh-lah Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: Tuan Pengerusi, Legal Draftsman-kah atau siapa-kah saya tidak-lah sebokkan 2625 18 DECEMBER 1963 2626 sangat.

Yang menjadi soal ia-lah kalau sudah di-pulangkan kapada Hakim dan sa-bagai-nya ta' usah sebut "nature, condition and size of the road" tentu-lah Tuan Hakim itu tahu berkenaan dengan jalan kechil atau lari kuat, tetapi kita sebut-lah.

Itu yang menjadi soal kapada kita.


Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Pengerusi, saya harap Yang Berhormat dari Bachok bacha fasal itu daripada atas yang mengatakan—Any person who drives a motor vehicle— perkataan Inggeris-nya motor vehicle atau kenderaan yang berjentera, sama ada lori, bas, kereta biasa atau pun sepot kar, saya fikir cover up.

Berkenaan dengan lori lari laju melanggar orang, itu-lah yang di-pulangkan kapada Hakim.
Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: Tuan Pengerusi, saya tidak membahath- kan berkenaan dengan motor vehicle, tetapi yang saya bahathkan patut di-beri indication atau tunjokkan di-sini.

Kalau Bill ini sudah sangat menyebutkan "including the nature, condition and size of the road", apa salah-nya Bill ini menyebutkan "including the nature, condition and size of his vehicle", sebab size of vehicle itu ada-lah mem- punyai ma'ana yang besar di-dalam negligence atau danger yang ada pada vehicle itu sendiri.
Itu menjadi soal kapada saya.

Saya tahu motor vehicle itu termasok lori, termasok motokar sepot—tidak termasok kereta lembu.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Pengerusi, the size of vehicle is not material, tetapi yang jadi soal hari ini fasal laju—the driving is the factor.

Apabila driving kadang2 kita lari 30 tetapi keadaan jalan itu basah, kalau orang melintas, kita tekan brake kereta kita membuang.

Berkenaan dengan driving laju tadi kalau lori pun bagitu juga.

Soal ini ia-lah soal laju-nya.


Ini yang kita hendak fahamkan.

Soal-nya— the manner of driving, bukan—the size of vehicle.

Kita sekarang sudah bersetuju atas satu maudho' ia-itu "the driving is the factor, and not the size of vehicle".

Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: tidak puas hati bahawa satu Saya "condition and size of this vehicle" sahaja di-kenakan kapada sa-buah lori yang besar dengan tractor; kemudian sa-buah motokar B.G.
220 yang di- punyai oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri itu sendiri sama2 lari 30 meter yang sama di-atas jalan yang sama, ada-kah dapat di-hukumkan bahaya-nya di- jalan sebab tractor yang lari 30 meter itu boleh terbalek, dan Mercedes tidak boleh terbalek?
itu sama sahaja, raya Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: lori Itu-lah sebab-nya kita hadkan, boleh lari 35 batu pada satu jam dan kereta pakai tidak ada had-nya, dan bas di-hadkan 35 batu satu jam, bagitu juga sekarang ini teksi sudah di-tetapkan 60 batu satu jam.

Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: Tuan Pengerusi, saya harap Hakim negeri ini lebeh chekap daripada Menteri Yang Berhormat itu.

Clauses 1 to 4 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 5 to 8— Enche' Kang Kock Seng (Batu Pahat): Mr Chairman, Sir, Clause 6 of the Bill amends section 57 of the principal Ordinance.

Clause 6 adds a new para graph saying, "to limit the hours of duty to of drivers of goods vehicles and prescribe the conditions of service of such drivers".
Although this section of the law will protect the drivers of goods vehicles from being exploited by their employers, but on the other hand— before this law is implemented—I would like to ask for an assurance from the Minister .

.

.. Dato Haji Sardon rises.

Mr Chairman: He is quite in order— he is talking on Clause 6.

What is wrong ?

Dato' Haji Sardon: I was thinking the Honourable Member was talking about the issue of licences to lorry drivers.
Mr Chairman: We are now dealing with Clauses 5 to 8 and he is quite in order.

Dato' Haji Sardon: Thank you.

Enche' Kang Kock Seng: I would like an assurance from the Honourable Minister before this law is implemented that he will make the necessary inves tigation to collect all the relevant terms 2627 18 DECEMBER 1963 2628 and conditions of service from the employers and employees.
Mr Chairman, Sir, why I say this is because I am aware—and if I am wrong the Honour able Minister will correct me—that there are three types of vehicle licences.

The first is the " A" type which is for vehicles for general hire or reward; then you have " B" type, which is for vehicles for carrying own goods or reward; and then you have the " C" type which is for vehicles to carry your own goods only.

Therefore, the terms of service of the drivers will be different.
On the other hand, again, if a vehicle has got to pass through the Customs, in Johore Bahru for example, the lorry operators of Malacca or Kuala Lumpur will have to wait for long hours at the Customs.

That would affect the terms of service in regard to the working hours and I do hope that the Honourable Minister will bear this fact in mind before the law is implemented.

law On the whole, Sir, this clause is very good.


It is now intended, as the Honour to protect able Minister has said, drivers from working long hours, but at the same time there are also drivers who are working on a commission basis.
So all these aspects should be taken into is consideration before such a implemented so that it will not cause hardship to the drivers themselves or to the employers, because if a certain stage is to be reached whereby a vehicle will have got to have shift drivers just like the airplanes—where they can only work for certain number of hours and then there must be a change of pilots— then it might increase the cost of road haulage, whereby the cost of goods will also be affected.
When the cost of food stuffs are increased then the cost of living will also increase.

Dato' Haji Sardon: I can give that assurance, because although we legislate this we are in close consultation with the Minister of Labour, the unions and also the owners of lorries so that we can get comments from all concerned before we actually put up rules and regulations for the implementation of this.

So I can give that undertaking, Sir.

Clauses 5 to 8 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 9 to 17— Tuan Haji Azahari bin Haji Ibrahim (Kubang Pasu Barat): Tuan Pengerusi, saya ingin mendapat penjelasan ber- kenaan dengan Clause 12—(cheraian 105 (1))—yang mana di-dalam Rang Undang2 itu tersebut: "There shall be constituted for the Sta:es o{ Malaya a Road Transport Licensing Board consisting of the Commissioner who shall be the Chairman and eight other members to be appointed by the Minister"*.
Apa yang menarek perhatian saya ia-lah berkenaan dengan Road Transport Licensing Board yang mana baharu sa-bentar tadi saya dengar penjelasan daripada Yang Berhormat Menteri mengatakan satu Commissioner dan dua orang ahli sudah chukup dan sudah memadai-lah untok menjadi bilangan yang boleh menimbangkan permintaan2 orang ramai manakala di-adakan satu meshuarat khas untok memberi per- timbangan pada permintaan2 itu.
iadu di-sini saya minta-lah kapada Menteri Yang Berhormat supaya menerangkan sama ada jika kita hendak adakan satu itu meshuarat katakan-lah meshuarat di-adakan di-Alor Star, yang mana hendak membuat pertimbangan pada permintaan2 itu, ada-kah di-kehendaki chuma di-panggil dua orang itu sahaja, atau jemputan2 di-berikan kapada semua lapan2 orang itu, kerana saya bimbang di-dalam perkara satu Commissioner Road Transport dan dua orang ahli sahaja yang menjadi koram untok menimbangkan permintaan2 itu; saya bimbang barang kali ahli2 yang dua terpengaroh kapada kata2 orang yang di-keluarkan oleh Commissioner itu, atau pun permintaan2 yang mana pehak Road Transport memikirkan patut di-beri, akan tetapi bagi pehak ahli2 ini memikirkan tidak patut di-beri atau ada orang yang lain yang lebeh sa-suai lagi untok di-berikan.
Sa-lain daripada itu Commissioner ini hanya boleh memanggil dua orang yang di- fikirkan-nya lebeh boleh di-pengarohi- nya di-dalam menjalankan kerja2 ini.

Jadi, ini-lah yang menjadikan kebim- bangan kapada saya terhadapan pen- tadbiran Road Transport ini.

jikalau ini, itu Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, di-dalam pem- bentokan Lembaga Pelesen Kenderaan 2629 18 DECEMBER 1963 2630 Saya ini, kuasa ada-lah di-berikan kapada Menteri Kenderaan.
Saya telah men- dengar keterangan2 daripada Menteri Yang Berhormat bahawa dia tentu-lah akan melantek orang2 yang munasabah dan sa-orang daripada-nya ia-lah dari saloran Kehakiman di-dalam pada negeri ini atau bekas2 Hakim dan sa- bagai-nya.

suka mendapat keterangan daripada Yang Berhormat, hendak menjalankan apabila dia bagaimana-kah ini pengangkutan category—jenis orang yang akan di- lantek-nya di-dalam Lembaga Pelesen.
Sebab ini ada-lah perkara yang penting dan perlu-lah Menteri Yang Berhormat itu mempunyai gambaran.

Sa-kira-nya dia tidak ada mempunyai gambaran dan sa-kira-nya gambaran itu kita rasa tidak berapa memuaskan maka elok-lah kita dengar lebeh dahulu daripada-nya.

Sebab kalau sudah di-lantek perkara ini akan berpanjangan dan mungkin akan merosakkan perkhidmatan yang baik ini.

Saya tidak-lah sampai hendak mengatakan bahawa benda ini akan di-pandang dari segi politik atau sa- bagai-nya.
Sebab ini telah di-nafikan oleh Menteri Yang Berhormat dan penafian-nya di-dalam Dewan ini ada- lah penafian yang rasmi dan tentu-lah akan dapat di-pertanggong-jawabkan- nya.

Tetapi walau bagaimana pun hendak-lah kita mendapat gambaran bagaimana jenis pada biasa-nya lantekan ini di-buat.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, terutama sa-kali saya hendak menjawab berkenaan de- ngan quorum ini.
Yang sa-benar-nya per kara ini sudah di-jalankan sa-lama tiga tahun terdiri dari sa-orang pengerusi sa- kurang2-nya dan dua orang ahli boleh- lah membuat temuduga atau bichara.

Kalau hendak menukar sampai 8 orang atau kesemua-nya jadi segala kerja2 tidak boleh di-jalankan.
Tetapi kita sa-belum hendak membicharakan, kita tahu ada kes2 ya'ani permohonan yang besar2 terutama sa-kali ada 10 tidak chukup kerana hendak orang banyak lagi, barangkali orang2 yang mahir dalam Undang2 dapat datang bagitu dan bagini, dia boleh buat tiga orang, tetapi yang saya katakan tadi, sa-kurang2-nya dua orang.

Jadi kalau ada 8 orang dia boleh-lah bergilir2.

Undang2 kuat kuasa telah pun berjalan beberapa tahun.

Saya harap-lah Yang Berhormat itu faham kerana ini bukan-lah satu perkara yang baharu.
ini Berkenaan dengan gambaran orang yang di-lantek itu, sa-benar-nya dari pada pengalaman saya, kita mengadakan Majlis Pelesen Pusat yang mengandongi 6 orang ahli atau penolong-nya 2 orang jadi 8 orang.

Daripada yang saya cheritakan tadi orang2 itu ada-lah bekas Hakim2 Besar atau orang retired yang memang terkenal dan di-kenali oleh orang ramai dan dia kenal kapada orang ramai jadi senang dia faham sa-suatu.
Saya mesti lagi di-sini, sa-bagaimana tudohan2 daripada Socialist Front mengatakan di-pileh orang2 politik atau orang2 UMNO sahaja.

Saya memberi akuan, itu bukan- lah chara2 kami hendak melantek di- dalam satu2 pejabat tempat yang mana untok bertemuduga daripada semua bangsa dan daripada semua puak dan gulongan.

Itu-lah gambaran saya yang boleh saya gambarkan dan gambaran ini telah pun berjalan dengan baik.
terangkan daripada Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, gambaran itu masaalah umum, kita akan balek tempat masing2 dengan tidak dapat gambaran.

saya Tetapi walau bagaimana pun hendak mengemukakan shor satu kapada Menteri Yang Berhormat ber kenaan dengan lantekan ini.

Saya suka mendapat fikiran-nya di-sini supaya di- sharikat2 lantek wakil Kenderaan Melayu mendudoki dalam Road Transport Licensing Board.
Ini jauh daripada cherita perkauman tetapi cherita-nya ia-lah kerana dasar Kerajaan ini hendak membawa orang2 Melayu dalam perusahaan kenderaan.

Jadi oleh sebab dasar itu hendak di-jalankan maka ada-lah sangat munasabah bahawa wakil dari sharikat2 kenderaan orang Melayu dalam Licensing Board ini supaya dia dapat memerhatikan kepentingan perjalanan Pelesenan yang akan di-jalankan oleh Lembaga itu.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tahu mungkin orang lain yang akan di-lantek di-dalam Lembaga, itu pun boleh jadi orang Melayu juga.

Tetapi saya lebeh suka melihat sa-orang dari pada sharikat2 kenderaan di-sana sebab perusahaan kepentingan dia di-berikan tempat tahu 2631 18 DECEMBER 1963 2632 itu kenderaan yang di-kehendaki oleh orang Melayu ini dapat sendiri dan menjamin perjalanan dasar-nya.

Saya suka mendapat tahu bagaimana Menteri ini menghadapi chadangan saperti ini.
nanti tetapi sa-bagai Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Saya tidak faham apa yang di-katakan oleh Yang Berhormat itu.

Dia kata Majlis Pelesen ini hendak-lah dapat menjalankan ke'adilan walau pun dia tidak jalankan tetapi kita mahu dia menjalankan sa-berapa boleh.

Kalau sudah wakil itu mengatakan kenderaan orang Melayu mesti dudok menjadi sa-orang daripada ahli-nya, jadi ini saya tidak faham.
Kerana apa, hak istimewa orang Melayu atau pun preference ini saya yang bagikan directive-nya kapada pengerusi dan kapada ahli2 Majlis itu.

Mereka itu melantek-nya tiap2 sa-tahun sama ada di-panjangkan atau di-tukar- kan. Jadi kalau hendakkan ahli daripada kenderaan Melayu daripada Chamber of Commerce Melayu kata hendak juga, Chinese Chamber of Commerce hendak ada, jadi semua ada dan tujuan awal itu sudah lari.

Fasal apa, Majlis Pelesen ini bukan Mah- kamah semi-judicial.
Kita berkehendakkan sa-berapa daya sa-orang yang bersangkutan tidak akan di-lantek menjadi ahli-nya, kalau tidak tentu-lah lain walau pun ia tidak buat tetapi sangkaan orang ramai ia berat sa-belah.
Saya barangkali suka memberi pandangan itu, untok kapada Yang Berhormat ini sa-patut-nya Majlis per- tujuan niagaan Melayu yang ada section kenderaan dapat memberi pertolongan kapada orang2 Melayu yang hendak memohon itu supaya memberi nasihat dan memberikan keterangan serta ber- hubong dengan Pesuroh Jaya sendiri suroh masokkan permohonan.

Maka kita menolong menasihat sa-belum di- itu dan majukan di-dalam temuduga tidak mengganggu orang2 yang hendak menghakimkan itu.
Saya suka juga terangkan di-sini, apabila saya melantek sa-orang ahli dia kena-lah buat sumpah dan tidak ada financial interest semua perniagaan pengangkutan, perkara ini hendak-lah di-fahamkan.

ia menyebelah pehak temuduga dengan sa-kali Tuan Haji Azahari bin Haji Ibrahim (Kubang Pasu Barat): Tuan Yang di- Pertua, saya maseh tidak puas hati lagi tentang jawapan Menteri Yang Ber hormat itu berkenaan dengan quorum tadi.
Dia mengatakan lazim-nya sudah berapa tahun di-jalankan oleh sa-orang Commissioner dengan dua orang ahli.

Jadi tidak-kah dia ingat hendak me- lebehkan bilangan quorum itu.

Kerana apa, saya nampak lazim-nya yang kita bermeshuarat di-mana2 meshuarat atau pun mana2 satu perjumpaan Commis sioner ada-lah menjadi pengerusi-nya dalam meshuarat itu.

Salah sa-orang ahli terpengaroh dengan Commissioner atau pengerusi itu maka tinggal-lah sa-orang lagi, jadi siapa-kah yang ada kuasa Veto.
Kalau sa-kira-nya sa-orang ahli berfikir tidak mahu membenarkan per- dia mintaan2 itu tetapi pada satu masa pula pehak Road Transport kata, ini patut di-bahagikan.

Jadi sa-orang ahli tidak tinggal bagitu sahaja tidak boleh buat apa2.

Kalau dia bagi sokongan siapa-kah yang ada kuasa Veto tadi.

Ini harus-lah Menteri Yang Berhormat faham apa yang terjadi dua tahun dahulu dalam perkara pengangkutan di-Malaya ini.
Saya fikir patut-lah Menteri Yang Berhormat ini memberi pertimbangan untok melebehkan quorum itu.

tiga itu banyak Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: itu hendak di- Sa-kira-nya quorum lebehkan, nanti melambatkan kerja.

Tetapi yang biasa-nya di-dalam perkara2 yang besar kita minta semua ahli hadzir tetapi ma'alom sahaja-lah sa-tengah juga kerja-nya.
mereka Saya sudah jawab perkara ini dan saya minta-lah kapada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat untok bekerjasama dengan saya, sebab kuasa ulang bichara itu ada, dan perkara ulang bichara itu bukan-lah boleh saya gunakan dengan suka2 hati saya.

Ini bukti2-nya, tentu-lah keterangan yang saya perlukan bagi memanggii lagi orang yang meminta ulang bichara itu, pergi siasat balek, oleh sebab itu jangan-lah di-sangka yang dua orang ahli dan sa-orang pengerusi ini boleh di-pengarohi.
Kalau di-pengarohi, kalau tidak ada hasil permohonan.

ia dapat minta ulang bichara.

Ini ada tingkatan-nya, sebab itu-lah kita adakan ulang bichara, dan mereka itu tidak boleh berbuat dengan suka2 hati-nya menyekat pada tingkatan bawah.
Saya berharap dengan pengakuan saya ini, dengan ada 2633 18 DECEMBER 1963 2634 Ahli2 Yang Berhormat akan faham-lah tentang ada-nya kuasa ulang bichara ini, dan ini berma'ana dengan sendiri- nya akan menyekat apa juga yang mereka fikir boleh dapat dengan suka hati-nya dengan tidak ada ulang bichara lagi.

Tuan Haji Azahari bin Haji Ibrahim: Tuan Pengerusi, perkara yang saya minta tolong ini ia-lah satu perkara yang luar biasa.
Di-dalam kita hendak memberi keadilan saperti undang2 ini, maka patut-lah Yang Berhormat Menteri ini memberi satu pengakuan yang perkara itu akan di-timbangkan di-dalam satu Majlis Penasihat, atau sa-bagai-nya.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Saya sudah terangkan perkara itu, dan ta' payah jawab, Tuan Pengerusi.

lagi saya Clauses 9 to 17 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill First Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Second Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.


Bill reported without amendment: read the third time and passed.

THE FISHERIES (AMENDMENT) BILL Second Reading The Minister of Agriculture and Co operatives (Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Bill intituled "An Act to amend the Fisheries Act, 1963" be read a second time.
Sir, the Fisheries Act, 1963 came into effect early this year but since then it has been found necessary to make some amendments in the light of experience and the present development in the fishing industry.

proper control of fishing, Clause 9 of this Bill seeks authority to control fishing and the fisheries not only within territorial waters but also in waters adjacent to the territorial waters.
The Bill also provides authority for the Courts of the States of Malaya with the necessary jurisdiction to try offences committed outside the territorial waters.

Clause 2 of this Bill seeks to amend section 3 of the Fisheries Act, 1963 in order to enable the State authority to make rules to regulate the construction of dams or other obstructions in rivers.
With the construction of dams, control gates and other obstructions the riverine waters for power and water supply, it has been found necessary to make provisions to regulate and control the construction of these obstructions in order that they will not interfere adversely with the migatory habits of fishes in these waters.

in the view Apart from the above, opportunity is also taken to make minor amendments improving and to with tightening the existing laws.
Clauses 4 and 10 now provide that fishing stakes which are unlicensed or the subject of prosecution may not only be removed but may also be destroyed.

The Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry (Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid): Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Enche' Ismail bin Idris (Penang Selatan): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saperti mana dalam Rang Undang2 yang lain, Rang Undang2 ini ada-lah bermaksud untok membaiki kedudokan dan taraf nelayan2 dalam Persekutuan Malaysia, khas-nya Persekutuan Tanah Melayu ini.
Tetapi, walau macham mana pun, pada pendapat saya, keadaan Rang Undang2 ini tidak-lah sa-berapa memuaskan, ter- utama sa-kali kapada nelayan2 yang kechil2.

the The existing law provides powers to control fishing within territorial waters which in the present context means only within the three-mile limit.

With modern methods of fishing, especially in the case of relatively large scale fishing units, the area of fishing operation usually extends beyond the three-mile limit.
In order to provide Yang Berhormat Menteri yang mem- bawa usul ini, tegas-nya Rang Undang2 ini berkata bahawa ada di-adakan satu peratoran berkenaan dengan penangkap2 ikan dan akan di-untokkan tempat2 yang sa-suai bagi penangkap2 ikan itu.
Saya suka hendak membawa satu pandangan ia-itu kalau-lah di-daratan ini ada satu jenis binatang yang buas dan ganas yang 2635 18 DECEMBER 1963 2636 di-namakan harimau, yang biasa mem- binasakan segala apa2 yang dia lakukan, juga ada satu benda maka bagitu di-dalam perayeran yang di-namakan Pukat Rimau.
Pukat Rimau ini ada-lah satu jenis pukat yang telah pun men jalankan pembinasaan bukan sahaja kapada mana2 nelayan2 yang kechil, bahkan juga telah membinasakan dan memusnahkan barang2, atau benda2 dalam lautan.
tetapi bukan segala aduan2 Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada-lah sangat sa-suai orang kampong atau nelayan namakan pukat itu Pukat Harimau kerana apakala pukat itu menjalankan kerja2-nya, maka segala khazanah dalam ikan2 itu di-tarek sa-hinggakan laut itu pun dapat yang paling kechil Itu di-tarek masok ka-dalam pukat.

ada-lah merugikan, sahaja kapada pukat kechil bahkan juga ka pada hasil penangkapan dan khazanah dalam laut itu.
Saya telah menerima beberapa aduan atas soal Pukat Hari mau itu, dan juga perkara itu telah di-bawa kapada pengetahuan polis dan juga kapada pengetahuan perikanan tempatan, itu belum-lah dapat di-laksanakan oleh pegawai2 yang saya sebutkan tadi.

Saya sebab tahu apa-kah perkara ini jadi demikian?

Boleh jadi, sebab-nya polis mengatakan tidak ada proof atau keterangan yang sa-benar- nya Pukat Harimau itu telah menjalan kan kerja2 itu.
Bagitu juga, saya rasa dan saya telah dapati daripada Pejabat Perikanan yang mengatakan mereka tidak ada chukup kelengkapan bagi menjalankan tindakan2 sa-umpama itu.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, nelayan2 kechil ini sunggoh2 berasa terharu terhadap ada-nya Pukat Harimau ini.
Baharu2 ini saya telah menerima satu taligerem daripada pendudok2 di-kawasan saya, dan ini-lah yang saya hendak bachakan ini taligerem dengan kebenaran, Tuan Yang di- Pertua: ini di-hadapan Majlis tidak-lah "Kapada Yang Berhormat Enche' Ismail Idris, Wakil Ra'ayat Pulau Pinang Selatan, Dewan Ra'ayat, Kuala Lumpur.

Di-pinta mengambil tindakan dengan sa- berat2-nya mengena'i usul mengharamkan Pukat Harimau dari chadangan dan ura2 Kerajaan Persekutuan.

Pehak tuan menunggu langkah yang di-ambil oleh tuan.
Ra'ayat berkehendakkan haramkan ra'ayat kawasan terus dengan tidak bersharat".

saya, ia-itu tetapi telah di-haramkan, ini chukup banyak Ini-lah taligerem sa-bahagian daripada kehendak2 ra'ayat di-sana, kerana sa- itu berluasa telah Pukat Harimau di-kawasan itu, maka pencharian ne layan2 kechil itu sangat-lah susah sa- hingga kedudokan mata pencharian femili2-nya itu telah terancham.
Maka oleh yang demikian saya juga dapat ketahui daripada Yang Berhormat Menteri atau dalam siaran2 akhbar mengatakan bahawa Pukat Harimau itu ini-lah yang mendukachitakan pehak ra'ayat bagaimana di-kawasan sa-kira-nya Pukat Harimau ini di- haramkan, tetapi maseh ada lagi Pukat Harimau itu dalam laut menjalankan usaha-nya.

Ini-lah satu perkara yang patut di-ambil perhatian oleh Kemen- terian ini moga2 dengan tidak ada-nya Pukat Harimau ini, maka mata pencharian nelayan2 kechil itu dapat-lah di-selamatkan.
Saya perchaya tangkapan atau hasil tangkapan daripada Pukat Harimau atau berlipat ganda daripada hasil tangkapan pukat kechil ini, tetapi pekerja2 yang bekerja dalam Pukat Harimau ini kalau di-bandingkan dengan banyak-nya ne layan yang mengambil bahagian dalam laut nelayan ini sangat-lah berbeza.

Saya dapat ketahui bahawa sa-sabuah Pukat Harimau itu hanya mempunyai 7 atau 8 orang sahaja yang bekerja dalam satu2 Pukat Harimau'itu.
Jadi kalau-lah satu2 Pukat Harimau itu boleh merosakkan mata pencharian dan kehidupan ra'ayat yang beratus2 itu, saya rasa lebeh baik-lah Pukat Harimau ini di-hapuskan sama sa-kali, kerana hendak menjaga 100 atau 200 nelayan2 kechil daripada penderitaan sara hidup.

Biasa-nya Pukat Harimau ini datang ka-tepi2 laut di-mana nelayan2 kechil ini menchari penghidupan-nya.

Sa-hingga saya dapat ini biasa datang sa-hingga kapada aver yang lebeh chetek antara empat dengan delapan depa dalam-nya.
Jadi, di-sini-iah kesusahan yang di-bangkitkan oleh nelayan kechil ini, kerana mereka tidak dapat sama sa-kali menjalankan usaha2 mereka.
tahu Pukat Harimau Tuan Yang di-Pertua, baharu2 ini soal Pukat Harimau ini telah jadi satu modal yang besar kapada Socialist Front di-dalam kempen2-nya berkenaan 2637 18 DECEMBER 1963 2638 satu juga-lah dengan Pilehan Raya-kechil di-kawasan saya, sa-hingga modal ini telah dapat mempengarohi beberapa nelayan, tetapi Alham dullillah, oleh sebab kuat se- mangat orang2 kita yang suka kapada Parti Perikatan, maka ahli Parti yang menang Perikatan (Tepok).
Tetapi walau bagaimana pun, perkara ini biar-lah di-jadikan pedoman atau ingatan kapada Menteri supaya di-dalam Pilehan Raya yang akan datang ini dapat kita berjaga2 daripada parti lawan untok mengambil modal yang sa-bagini rupa.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, lagi sa-kali suka menyatakan bahawa ada-lah sa-kira-nya nasib burok akibah-nya nelayan2 tidak di-beri perhatian yang berat, kerana keadaan hari ini maka gulongan yang paling burok sa-kali kita dapat dari segi pencharian ia-lah daripada gulongan2 nelayan.
Jadi, saya berharap-lah supaya soal nelayan ini dapat benar2 di-perhatiankan oleh Kementerian supaya gulongan manusia ini boleh berdiri sadikit sa-banyak dan mata pencharian mereka pun dapat di-beri perlindongan.

saya ini Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka lagi sa-kali hendak membangkitkan supaya ra'ayat di-kawasan saya itu, saperti juga di-kawasan2 yang mana2 lain, dapat di-beri pertimbangan dalam soal ini.
Jika sa-kira-nya Yang Berhormat Menteri ini hendak menghalalkan Pukat Harimau ini, maka saya minta-lah supaya kedudokan nelayan2 kechil ini tidak lagi berada saperti mana keadaan yang ada sekarang ini.

Terima kaseh.
Terima kaseh.

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Saaid (Seberang Utara): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bangun untok menyokong usul ber- kenaan dengan Rang Undang2 Per- ikanan ini, khas-nya mengenai fasal 9 yang membolehkan Menteri yang langkah dan berkenaan mengambil orang2 yang membuat menda'awa kesalahan di-luar daripada perayeran negara kita ini.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ingin mendapat penjelasan daripada Yang Berhormat Menteri yang ber kenaan, ini meluluskan pindaan Rang Undang2 ini.
Ada-kah dalam ingatan beliau hendak menghalalkan pukat tunda yang sa-masa ini sudah di-haramkan.

Sa- kira-nya di-halalkan pukat tunda itu tujuan meminta Dewan saya fikiran ingin-lah mengeluarkan saya mengenai perkara pukat harimau yang di-sebutkan oleh Yang Berhormat wakil dari Pulau Pinang Selatan.

Perkara ini sudah mengambil masa sa-lama satu tahun.
Yang Berhormat Menteri yang telah mengambil bahagian di-dalam perkara ini membuat beberapa perun- dingan menemui wakil2 dan ketua2 supaya menchari jalan mengikhtiarkan bagi satu dasar yang bersefahaman.

Tetapi malang-nya pengharaman yang telah pun di-istiharkan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri tidak dapat di- jalankan, oleh kerana Undang2 tidak bagitu ketat.
Saya perchaya dengan lulus-nya pindaan ini dapat-lah pehak yang berkenaan pasokan Marine khas- nya menangkap orang2 yang terlampau buas dan ganas, mengenai penangkapan ikan dengan chara pukat tunda itu.

Saya tahu di-tempat yang lain ia-itu di-Kuala Kedah dan di-Pantai Remis, pukat2 tunda ini tidak ada dan ada di-Pulau Pinang, di-daerah City Coun semua-nya di-tumpukan di-situ cil, lima puloh lebeh kurang sa-banyak berhimpun di-situ.

Mereka ini keluar menangkap ikan mengganggu penang- kap2 lain.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, menangkap ikan chara pukat ini ada-lah satu usaha yang tunda mendatangkan faedah yang chukup banyak.

Satu2 pukat tunda modal-nya tidak kurang dari ribu ringgit.

Sa-orang manakala mengeluar kan modal lima belas ribu ringgit dia dapat jaminan atau faedah sa-banyak tiga ribu ringgit sa-bulan, jadi, dalam enam atau tujoh bulan boleh dapat modal-nya balek.
Jadi, dengan usaha bagi mendapatkan faedah yang chepat itu-lah kaum Kapitalis telah mengeluar kan modal mereka itu untok menchari keuntongan yang sa-chepat2-nya dengan tidak menghiraukan sama sa-kali nasib nelayan2 yang tulen yang telah juga menchari makan dan mengharapkan penghidupan mereka itu menumpukan tenaga mereka itu khas-nya dari saloran menangkap ikan, jika kita melawat tempat mereka itu amat-lah sedeh-nya.
Saya sa-bagai pengerusi bagi Jawatan Kuasa Kebajikan Masharakat pada satu masa telah mengeluarkan bahan2 makanan kerana mereka tidak chukup makan dan berikhtiar dengan chara yang lain untok buat sementara lima belas ikan yang itu 2639 18 DECEMBER 1963 2640 ini lama waktu supaya dapat mereka itu menchari jalan yang lain.

Ada di-antara mereka itu pada masa ini mengharapkan mata pencharian mereka itu atas satu jenis siput yang di-panggil kepah.
Kepah ini boleh di-rebus dan di-jemur, dengan ini sa-saorang itu boleh dapat satu ringgit.

Sebab chara menangkap ikan yang terancham, khas-nya pukat payong, pukat hanyut, pukat jerut, dan pukat Lok Hong yang di-katakan oleh orang China yang ada mempunyai pukat ini.
Jadi, saya ber- harap kapada Menteri Yang Berhormat sa-kira-nya Kerajaan hendak meng- halalkan pukat ini, ada-kah tunda ranchangan2 yang khas di-buat oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat Menteri untok mengawal penghidupan nelayan2 yang asii atau yang tulen, saya tahu kerana orang2 yang menjalankan usaha me nangkap ikan sa-chara pukat tunda ini bukan-nya ahli menangkap ikan, siapa pun boleh, chuma dia menjalankan jentera, dan dia bukan nelayan tulen, dia boleh dapat satu had sa-puloh ringgit, jadi satu bot menangkap sa- kurang2-nya dua puloh pikul, boleh dapat satu ribu lebeh.
Jadi pencharian mereka itu dengan chara dapat sa-puloh ringgit atau lima belas ringgit sa-hari sa-orang.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya berharap kapada Menteri Yang Berhormat tulong-lah mengambil perhatian yang berat atas nasib nelayan2 di-Pantai Barat, sebab Pantai Timor tidak bagitu terancham sa-tahu saya.

Baharu2 ini saya dapati dengan murah hati Menteri Perikanan Yang Berhormat telah pun benarkan satu rombongan daripada ahli2 nelayan melawat ka- negeri Thai.
Saya berharap menakala mereka melawat di-sana, mereka balek akan dapat menukarkan pandangan atau pun fikiran mereka itu supaya sama2 hendak mengubah nasib mereka itu dengan chara mengadakan alat kelengkapan penangkapan ikan sa-chara modern.
Ini ada-lah satu langkah yang baik, dan apa juga pandangan yang boleh memajukan chara penangkapan ikan yang modern, dan apa juga perubahan yang pejabat Perikanan memikirkan satu chara yang baharu hendak-lah di-tumpukan kapada nela yan yang asal atau nelayan yang tulen, ini-lah kahendak mereka sendiri, biar- lah orang itu mengubah nasib mereka ringgit di-atas chara menangkap ikan, bukan orang yang lain, jadi dengan chara ini terjamin, itu tentu-lah nasib mereka dapat mereka itu adakan Sharikat Kerjasama, mengadakan satu pukat tunda, pukat jerut, dan lain2 lagi bila2 masa pun mereka menggunakan alat yang modern yang mana boleh mereka ikan.
Jadi itu mengharapkan dapat saya apa berharap-lah perubahan kapada modern itu biar-lah di-tumpukan kapada nelayan2 yang asal, mudah2an dengan chara ini dapat- lah menjamin kehidupan mereka itu.
sa-kira-nya ini akan Jika di-biarkan kapada puak kapitalis mengambil peluang mengeluarkan wang dengan dudok di-pantai sahaja dan dapat faedah yang banyak maka nasib nelayan terbiar dan akan menjadi akibat yang burok kapada negara kita ini yang orang2 ini meng harapkan mata pencharian mereka itu khas-nya dengan chara menangkap ikan akan terancham.
Ini ada-lah satu tanggong-jawab yang besar kapada Kerajaan di-masa yang akan datang dan harus kena beri makan kapada mereka untok sara hidup anak pinak mereka itu.

Jadi saya berharap kapada Yang Berhormat bagaimana yang saya tegaskan tadi kalau hendak adakan perubahan, biar-lah orang itu sendiri mengubahkan nasib mereka jangan-lah biarkan orang kapitalis—orang lain mengambil bahagian.
kita dengar Yang kedua, saya ingin menarek perhatian berkenaan dengan nelayan kita yang keluar di-Selat Melaka, selalu-nya di-rompak, di-samun, di-rampas dan di-pukul.

Saya berharap-lah kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri berhubong dengan pehak yang berkenaan, Pengawal Selat Melaka ini supaya dapat mengawal nasib nelayan2 kita yang pergi menchari ikan itu.
Saya kapada Yang ingin mengeshorkan Berhormat supaya di-alatkan perahu penangkap ikan ini dengan satu jenis alat walkie-talkie supaya dapat mereka berhubong dengan kawran2 mereka yang kena rompak oleh pehak Indonesia dan dapat-lah di-tolong oleh pehak Polis Laut, Tentera Udara sa-moga keselamatan mereka di-kawal oleh mereka itu.

Jadi sa-takat itu sahaja, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dan saya sokong pada dasar-nya dan saya harap Yang 18 DECEMBER 1963 2642 2641 Berhormat perkara ini.
ini mengambil berat atas ada-lah Tuan Haji Mokhtar bin Haji Ismail (Perlis Selatan): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bangun mengalu2kan Undang2 Perikanan yang telah di-kemukakan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Pertanian dan Sharikat Kerjasama.

Di-dalam memperkatakan Undang2 ini tentu-lah tidak salah bagi saya jika saya gambar- kan bahawa politik Tanah Melayu atau ini Persekutuan Malaysia pada hari ia-lah berdiri di-atas dasar pertanian.
Jadi dengan berdiri-nya politik kita di-atas dasar pertanian ini maka saya rasa tanggong-jawab satu yang besar bagi Kerajaan Persekutuan Malaysia meranchangkan kapada be- berapa ranchangan2 yang akan memberi faedah kapada petani2 termasok-lah nelayan2 juga.
Jadi di-dalam hal nelayan ini, sama2 kita telah dengar di-dalam Dewan ini beberapa fikiran daripada sahabat2 saya tetapi saya yang mewakili nelayan2 negeri Perlis ada-lah berlainan sadikit pendirian saya kerana saya telah di-desak dan di-minta saya menyokong Kerajaan dalam usaha melaksanakan pukat harimau ini.

Kerana kata mereka ini-lah satu chara yang akan menolong bagi orang2 Melayu yang pada masa ini atau bergantong ikhtisad mereka kapada adat resam datok nenek—dasar itu.
Jadi dengan chara sa-macham ini tentu-lah tidak akan dapat kita menghadapi satu chabaran bagi masa akan datang.

ekonomi mereka lama Kita sama2 ma'alom bahawa hari ini ada-lah masa kemajuan dan melapokkan chara2 yang lama atau chara2 yang tua telah di-lenyapkan di-muka bumi ini.
Jadi oleh kerana itu saya kata ini-lah satu dasar yang bijak dan sangat tepat bagi Persekutuan Malaysia pada masa ini di-dasarkan politik-nya bukan di-atas buroh, bukan di-atas industry, tetapi pada hari ini di-dasarkan di-atas pertanian dan ada-lah menjadi kewaji- pan bagi Kerajaan ia-itu mengusahakan dan mengikhtiarkan bagaimana chara2 yang akan dapat menghidupkan orang2 nelayan pada masa ini yang hanya mengharapkan ikan mati sahaja yang dapat di-tangkap oleh nelayan2 itu.
Jadi oleh kerana itu, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, yang berkenaan tersebut ini saya ada-lah mengalu2kan, dengan Undang2 chara tetapi satu sahaja yang suka saya membuat shor kapada Menteri yang berkenaan supaya manakala dapat di-laksanakan perusahaan2 pukat ha rimau atau pukat jerot ini hendak-lah di-dasarkan dengan sharikat kerjasama ia-itu peminta2 lesen tersebut untok mengusahakan pekerjaan itu jangan-lah di-keluarkan dengan bebas bahkan hendak-lah di-dasarkan di-atas sharikat kerjasama, ya'ani mereka yang hendak mengusahakan perusahaan per ikanan saperti pukat harimau ini jika tidak melalui dengan sharikat kerjasama, Kerajaan jangan-lah membenarkan mereka itu.
Jadi itu-lah sahaja, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pandangan saya dan saya memberi sokongan yang kuat di-atas Undang2 ini dan saya berdoa mudah2an Undang2 ini dapat di-jalan- kan dengan aman dan maju.

to the Enche' Tan Phock Kin (Tanjong): Mr Speaker, Sir, one cannot help being amused after three listening speakers from the Alliance.

If you want an example of confusion, Sir, there we have it in the utterances of the various Members of the Alliance.
Their utte rances reflect the mind of the Govern ment, and that is a mind which is utterly confused and not knowing what to do.

Sir, the Bill before the House has been introduced after a great deal of complaints and after a great deal of action on the part of the fishermen in protesting against the attitude of the Government towards their plight.

A group of fishermen even went to the extent of passing a vote of no confidence on the Honourable Minister of Agri culture.
I must agree with the description given by the Honourable Member for Penang Selatan and the Honourable for Seberang Utara with Member regard the small the plight of fishermen.

I cannot do better than to reiterate what they have said, and the extent of their hardships can be judged by the manner in which they tried to remedy it.

Some of them even went to the extent of taking direct action, so to speak, against people doing trawler fishing.
to The Honourable Member for Penang Selatan mentioned the political conse quences if the Alliance Government 2643 18 DECEMBER 1963 2644 towards the Minister, or should continue to adopt an adamant attitude trawler fishing.

He queried the Minister as to why people can still continue to do trawler fishing in spite of the ban being imposed on them.
Is it because the Department the ban concerned cannot enforce it is imposed by because the Minister to is reluctant implement it and that his announcement of the ban is merely a camouflage, so that the small fishermen will not take further action?

As far as I can see, this Bill is an attempt the small fishermen.

The Minister, in fact, is trying to tell them that he has not the powers to implement his action and that he is seeking these new powers to enable him to improve the position.
But in the course of his speech, Sir, [ note with regret that he made no mention whatsoever with to what he proposed to do on this question of trawler net fishing.

He made no mention whatsoever; he merely told us that he sought new powers to enable his Department to exercise more powers in the control of fishing in the light of advancement in the methods of fishing.
to hoodwink regard The Honourable Member for Perlis has made the statement to the effect that opposition to trawler fishing is a retrograde step.

No-one can agree more with him, and I for one agree entirely with him that the opposition, unqualified opposition, is a trawler retrograde step.

But I say here, Sir, surely the Minister of Agriculture should know that trawler fishing is by no means a recent invention.

Trawler fishing has been in use by fishermen in neighbouring countries for many, many years.
fishing to It has also been mentioned by the Honourable Member for Seberang Utara that at the moment trawler fishing is actually being used by capitalists.

The Member for Seberang Utara condemned such capitalists in no un certain terms.
I am rather surprised, Sir, that we have anti-capitalists in the ranks of the Alliance in spite of state ments issued very often, particularly by the Honourable Minister of Finance, that they are not anti-capitalists and fact encouraging that capitalism to flourish in this country.

they are in in in its fishermen is unable the small So here is a very clear-cut example of conflict, of ideological conflict, in the Alliance.
It is because of this that the Alliance is unable to tackle this very simple problem of controlling trawler fishing.

Had the Alliance been more clear-cut ideological stand, a solution to this problem would have been very easy and the present problems facing this country would not have happened at all.
It is because of the fact that the to act—perhaps, Minister because of the particular ideological stand of his Party, or because he refused to act, or, perhaps, he may have sympathy towards the stand of his Party—that he is unable to persuade his Party to accept a more progressive method of this particular problem of trawler fishing.
One would expect that a Minister, a responsible Minister, would have put forward his plans of improving the methods of fishing in this country and also of ensuring the economic future of the small fishermen of this country many, many years ago, and not now.
tackling time, the same It must be realised that the progressive methods being used in fishing, one of the functions of the Minister of Agri culture would be to see to it that the people of this country, the fishermen of this country, will have an opportunity of using a more advanced method of the fishing; and at Minister must appreciate the difficulty that will be confronting the small fishermen, who are without capital, in the light of the introduction of this new method of fishing.
A Minister with foresight, initiative, a Minister with would have put forward a plan before trawler fishing was introduced, and he would have introduced it slowly so that every fisherman in this country will not suffer.

One method, as sugges ted, is the introduction of co-operative organisation on a much bigger scale among the fishermen.

One would expect the Minister to be more active in his introduction of co-operatives.
Instead of doing that, he allows trawler fishing to be pursued by various groups of people who have the capital to do so.

They are, of course, licensed, but the Minister did nothing whatsoever to control it, and 2645 18 DECEMBER 1963 2646 today he comes to this House asking us for full powers, giving the impression that at long last he is going to do some thing about it.
I say here, Sir, that if the Minister is sincere, if the Minister is really desirous of assisting the small fishermen, he should have acted immediately.

The plight of the small fishermen must be looked into straight-away, and ways and means must be found to assist their economic plight.

But instead of doing so, it appears to me that the Honourable Minister is using piecemeal methods to give the impression that he is assisting them.
And here, Sir, assis tance is given to the more articulate fishermen, who are prepared to hold meetings and pass a vote of censure against him—the less articulate are left alone.

It appears from this, Sir, that the only language the Alliance can understand is the language of force— militant language.

Even the Honourable Member for Seberang Utara spoke in no uncertain terms.

He was telling the that Minister, in fact, quite bluntly "If you are not doing something about it, wait till the next election.
You will lose all the votes".

He even warned the Minister of this: at the last election at Balik Pulau the Alliance only managed to gain a mere 30 vote majority, com pared with the previous election in which the Alliance won by a majority of nearly a thousand votes.

Here, Sir, again we have Members of the Alliance warning the Minister as to the dire consequences the Government will face if it were to pursue its old policy.
But I must tell the backbenchers of the Alliance that I agree entirely with their desire to assist the poor fishermen.

I also agree with the Honourable Member for Seberang Utara of his anxiety about exploitation by capitalists, but I must tell him that he belongs to a wrong Party.

(Laughter).

But, perhaps, he can remedy the position by agitating more strongly within his Party so that the will of the majority shall prevail.
It looks to me that as far as the Party is concerned, it is the will of the minority that prevails—the minority that desires capitalism to flourish with out any control whatsoever, even if it in exploitation of our poor results fishermen.

So, here, Sir, is the problem the for us to solve, a problem for backbenchers to solve.
Do they genui nely desire to have a society in which the gap between the rich and the poor is very small, or do they want a society in which the gap is ever increasing as it is now today?
So, I feel sure they are intelligent enough to decide for them selves as to what they will do, and with this, Sir, I would like to urge the Honourable Minister—in the light of the warnings given to him, not by us, but by his own members—that he will take into account every consideration as to what he will do in the future.

Enche' Abdul Rauf bin A. Rahman: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bangun mengalu2kan Rang Undang2 Perikanan (Pindaan) yang ada di-hadapan kita ini.
Mudah2an undang2 ini apakala di-luluskan akan memberi faedah kapa- ra'ayat negeri yang bersangkut da dengan undang2 ini.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka hendak berchakap sadikit di-atas Fasal 9 (New section 19A).

Mengikut apa yang di-chatitkan dalam pindaan undang2 ini saya fikir ini-lah satu jalan yang boleh menye- lamatkan nelayan2 yang menchari mata pencharian-nya di-laut.
Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka berchakap sadikit berkenaan dengan satu jenis menangkap ikan yang di-namakan "pukat hari mau".

Baharu2 ini kita telah mendengar daripada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat, sama ada daripada parti Kerajaan dan juga parti Pembangkang telah memberi fikiran bersangkut dengan pukat hari mau ini.
Pukat harimau ini ada-lah satu usaha yang mengeluarkan wang atau mengeluarkan belanja yang banyak, sa-bagaimana yang di-katakan oleh saya Yang Berhormat dari rakan tidak kurang Seberang Utara daripada $15,000 jika hendak membuat satu pukat harimau.

Dengan ada-nya pukat harimau tetap-lah kaum2 yang ada mempunyal modal boleh menjalankan urusan itu.
Tetapi apa-lah akan terjadi kapada nelayan2 kita daripada orang Melayu-nya, orang China-nya dan orang India-nya yang menchari mata pencharian mereka dengan menangkap ikan di-laut.
Dengan ada-nya pukat harimau ini boleh-lah ini sudah tadi 2647 18 DECEMBER 1963 2648 saya katakan tertutup mata pencharian dan faedah2 yang akan di-usahakan oleh nelayan2 yang tidak ada bermodal untok mcndapat ikan di-laut sebab pukat harimau ini, bukan-nya sahaja menangkap ikan senangin, bawal dan tetapi sa- kurau dapat di-ambil-nya, hingga sampai ikan bilis pun dapat di-ambil oleh-nya.
Dengan ada pukat harimau ini sudah tentu mata pencharian nelayan yang tidak ada bermodal yang berusaha sa-lama ini akan putus asa.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tiap2 sa-orang, atau pun satu puak, atau pun satu2 bahagian, boleh-lah saya katakan ahli2 nelayan yang berusaha menangkap ikan ini-lah satu kehidupan yang ka-laut sangat2 kita kasehan ka-atas mereka.

Jika sa-kira-nya buroh2 yang menoreh rumah di-siapkan oleh getah ada juga buroh2 majikan-nya demikian Kerajaan umpama-nya D.I.D., P.W.D.
rumah2 yang dan sa-bagai-nya ada di-siapkan oleh Kerajaan, tetapi ke hidupan nelayan boleh kita saksikan, sama ada di-Pantai Barat atau pun di-Pantai Timor hanya dudok di-tepi laut, rumah-nya berdindingkan atap, barangkali kalau angin kuat sadikit terbalek.

Bagini keadaan dan boleh Jika kesusahan kehidupan nelayan.
sa-kira-nya pukat harimau ini di-halal- kan, atau di-luluskan oleh Kerajaan, saya perchaya dan juga Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dalam Dewan ini bersetuju dengan saya mengatakan ada-lah ke hidupan ahli2 nelayan akan kurang dan akan tidak dapat memuaskan kehidupan mereka.
ini ia-itu Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya membawa dan menyuarakan perkara ini di-dalam Dewan saya bukan-nya sahaja dapat pengaduan2, atau pun rayuan2 daripada nelayan2 lebeh kurang 500 orang dalam kawasan saya ia-itu ada tiga kuala: Kuala Kurau, Kuala Tanjong Piandang dan Kuala Bagan Tiang yang merayu meminta supaya pukat harimau itu di-haramkan.
Bukti2- nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya juga ada menerima satu taligerem dan dengan izin, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bacha- kan "Yang Berhormat Enche' Abdul Rauf, Wakil Ra'ayat, Krian Laut.

Di-pinta tuan mengambil perhatian berat supaya pengharaman Pukat tidak Harimau di-haramkan bersharat dan di-kehendaki tuan menyuarakan terus dengan hal itu di-dalam perbahathan Dewan Ra'ayat mengenai perkara ini".

Ini bukti-nya.
Ini bukti-nya.

Jika sa-kira-nya nelayan2 ini memikirkan kehidupan-nya hal boleh terjamin dengan ada-nya pukat harimau ini ta' dapat tiada taligerem saya.

tidak akan di-hantar kapada Jadi, di-sini saya mengambil perhatian dan fikiran ada-lah kehidupan nelayan2 itu sa-sunggoh-nya jika ada-nya pukat harimau itu berjalan dan di-jalankan atau di-benarkan membuat perusahaan itu ta' dapat tiada ahli2 nelayan itu, saya katakan lagi sa-kali akan susah kehidupan mereka itu.
Jadi dengan ini saya berharap kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri supaya memikirkan perkara ini dengan sa-dalam2-nya, sama ada hendak di-halalkan atas pukat harimau ini.

Saya juga mendapat faham pukat harimau itu telah di-haramkan, tetapi sa-hingga kapada had ini pukat harimau berjalan terus dengan tidak mengindah- kan apa2 hukuman yang di-keluarkan oleh Kementerian ini.
Sadikit sahaja yang dapat saya memberikan fikiran saya di-dalam Dewan ini bersangkut dengan pukat harimau ini dan berharap kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri itu memikirkan dan menimbangkan dengan sa-halus2-nya sa-bclum menjalankan satu2 perkara atau satu2 keputusan yang akan di-ambil oleh Menteri Yang Berhormat itu.

Terima kaseh.

Enche' Mohd.
Asri bin Haji Muda (Pasir Puteh): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-sudah mendengar uchapan2 daripada sa-bahagian besar Ahli2 Yang Ber hormat di-dalam Rumah ini berkenaan Rang Undang2 pindaan dengan mengenai perikanan, maka kita dapat satu kesimpulan yang pahit bahawa kehidupan kaum nelayan di-dalam negara ini tidak terjamin, bahkan belum ikhtiar yang ada satu usaha atau positive bagi menjamin dan membawa mereka itu ka-arah kehidupan yang tetap yang mereka juga merupakan satu masharakat yang terbesar di-dalam masharakat seluroh-nya di-negara kita ini.
Kita mengetahui, Tuan Yang di- Pertua, bahawa kaum nelayan itu baik di-Pantai Timor, atau di-Pantai Barat, saperti apa yang di-uchapkan dengan penoh semangat oleh Yang Berhormat dari Krian Laut ia-lah hidup dalam 2649 18 DECEMBER 1963 2650 keadaan serba serbi kekurangan.
Untok chara mengekalkan kapada hasrat kehidupan mereka menangkap ikan dan kapada hasrat alat2 penangkapan ikan di-jalankan oleh mereka itu pada zahir- nya merupakan satu ikhtiar untok memelihara keperibadian hidup, akan tetapi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, memelihara keperibadian hidup sa-chara menangkap ikan dalam negeri ini pada hakikat-nya ada-lah satu usaha yang hendak me- matikan sa-gulongan besar anggota masharakat di-dalam tanah ayer kita ini.
Say a telah tertarek kapada pen- jelasan Yang Berhormat dari Perlis Utara yang telah memberikan satu pandangan yang agak tegas walau pun pahit untok di-terima oleh pehak Menteri Yang Berhormat ia-itu beliau menchadangkan supaya kaedah2 chara menangkap ikan di-dalam negeri ini di-permodernkan, dengan chara mereka itu mendirikan Sharikat Kerjasama, Sharikat Kerjasama Nelayan itu dapat melakukan usaha menangkap ikan dengan alat yang modern dan penge- tahuan yang baharu.
Chara ini sahaja- lah yang dapat menjamin kehidupan nelayan2 di-dalam negara kita ini.

Memang sa-benar-nya alat2 menangkap ikan sa-chara modern saperti pukat harimau atau pukat tunda pada masa sekarang alat ini merupakan ikan yang merosakkan menangkap penangkap2 kehidupan yang kechil2.

Saya telah mendapat keterangan yang jelas bahawa bukan sahaja Pantai Barat pukat harimau itu menghanchor- kan mata pencharian penangkap ikan yang kechil2, juga di-Pantai tetapi Timor.
Di-Tumpat ia-itu satu daripada tempat penangkap ikan yang terbesar di-negeri Kelantan.

Di-sana ada empat kaum Kapitalis China yang telah memasokan empat pukat harimau dan telah melakukan pekerjaan menangkap ikan di-kawasan perayeran di-Kelantan.
Yang akibat-nya akan menimbulkan berbagai2 kejadian yang tidak di-ingini, satu daripada kejadian itu sudah pun sampai ka-tangan pehak Menteri Ke- selamatan Dalam Negeri, ini akibat daripada ada-nya puak Kapitalis yang melakukan kerja menangkap ikan dengan pukat harimau ini.

Ini ada-lah satu daripada kesah yang memudahkan berlaku-nya dalam tanah air kita.
Akan tetapi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, meng- ikan satu haramkan pukat harimau dengan tidak mengikhtiarkan satu kaedah yang lain kapada nelayan2 yang sedia ada itu ada-lah satu chara yang tidak dapat di-pertanggong-jawabkan, sa-terus-nya bagi kesempurnaan dan keselarasan hidup anggota masharakat dalam negeri ini.
Jadi, dengan sa-berapa banyak sa- kali pun nelayan itu di-pileh oleh pehak Menteri Yang Berhormat di-hantar keluar negeri ka-negeri Tai untok memerhatikan dan mempelajari chara2 menangkap ikan sa-chara moden dan beberapa pasokan lagi pun di-hantar ka-negeri Thai atau ka-negeri mana sahaja yang telah maju di-dalam me nangkap ikan ini, tidak-lah akan mem- beri faedah yang paling tinggi dapat membukakan mata nelayan kita dengan penangkapan sa-chara moden dan akan menitekkan ayer liur nelayan kita kapada hasrat penangkapan ikan sa-chara moden itu.
Ini tidak memberi faedah sa-kira-nya pehak Menteri tidak mengadakan satu ikhtiar yang lanjut sa-sudah di-bawa mereka itu ka-luar negeri dan memerhatikan chara2 baharu, maka mesti-lah pehak Menteri Yang Berhormat atau Kementerian ini men- jalankan satu ikhtiar sa-terus-nya dengan pengetahuan2 oleh yang nelayan2 kita daripada kaluar negeri itu, dapat-lah mereka itu mengadakan ikhtiar di-dalam negeri ini dengan bantuan Kerajaan akan apa chara yang di-fikirkan munasabah yang mengada kan satu Undang2 yang munasabah sa- hingga kemajuan perikanan yang di- lakukan dengan chara alat2 yang moden itu dapat di-lakukan di-dalam negeri kita ini.
di-dapati ikan Mr (Deputy) Speaker: Order!

Order!

The time is now one o'clock.

The sitting is now suspended to 4.30 p.m. this afternoon.

Sitting suspended at 1.00 p.m.

Sitting resumed at 4.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) ORDER OF BUSINESS (Motion) The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan Siew Sin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order 14 (2), item No.

5 on the Order 2651 18 DECEMBER 1963 2652 Paper for today shall be taken immediately after item No.
2, the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, has been passed by the House.

Sir, the purpose of this motion is to enable item No.

5, which is the Customs Duties Order, to be taken today in order that it shall have statutory effect.

As Honourable Members will be aware, this Order will lapse unless it is passed by the House within fourteen days of its being laid before the House of Re presentatives.
As Honourable Members are also aware, unless this Order is confirmed today, it may not be possible to do so until after the end of the year by which time it will have elapsed, because as from tomorrow we will start the Budget debate and there will be no time to deal with this Order.

Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolved, That in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order 14(2), item No.
5 on the Order Paper for today shall be taken immediately after item No.

2, the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, has been passed by the House.

BILLS THE FISHERIES (AMENDMENT) BILL Debate resumed.
Enche' Mohamed Asri bin Haji Muda: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, jadi memandang kapada keterangan2 yang telah saya berikan pada sa-belah pagi tadi maka sudah-lah tiba masa-nya bagi pehak Menteri Yang Berhormat membuat satu kajian yang lebeh sempurna dan lebeh berkesan dalam meninggikan taraf hidup kaum nelayan di-dalam negeri ini dengan mengadakan pertolongan2 yang bukan sahaja pertolongan yang merupa- kan pertolongan yang negative—saperti membawa nelayan2 melawat dan me- lihat chara2 menangkap ikan di-ncgeri2 Iuar atau mengadakan satu Undang2 bagi menghalang pehak2 penangkap ikan dengan chara2 yang tertentu ini boleh menolong kaum2 nelayan dalam negeri ini menukarkan chara hidup mereka dengan menjamin bahawa chara asli menangkap ikan dalam negeri ini dapat di-ubahkan dengan chara2 dan kaedah2 yang lebeh moden maka dengan ini sa-kurang2-nya yang demikian kehidupan kaum nelayan sa-imbang negeri dengan kehidupan gulongan2 yang lain di-dalam masharakat negeri ini.
telah ada-lah mengalu2kan Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad (Muar Utara): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bangun dan menyokong Rang Undang2 yang ada di-hadapan kita ini.

Saya tidak hendak berchakap panjang dalam perkara ini, chuma saya telah mengikuti perbahathan yang telah di-kemukakan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Pertanian dan Sharikat Kerjasama atas uchapan-nya ia-itu perkembangan dalam perusahaan perikanan ini.
Saya bagi pehak nelayan2 dalam negeri Johor menguchapkan tahniah dan terima kaseh yang banyak di-atas Kementerian ini sebab banyak kemudahan2 yang di-berikan kapada nelayan2 dalam negeri Johor saperti di-Mersing, di-Kuala Sedili, di- Batu Pahat, Muar dan di-Parit Jawa.
Dalam perkara ini, Tuan Yang di- Pcrtua, saya nampak satu kcsiilitan yang di-alami oleh nelayan2 di-kawasan itu ia-itu mereka menangkap ikan di- perayeran di-Selat Melaka pcrnah di- ganggiri oleh lanun2 atau perompak2 daripada Indonesia, maka akibah-nya menjadikan ikan kurang di-pasar kita di-sebabkan nelayan2 kita itu di-ganggu.
Dalam hal kepentingan ini untok ra'ayat Malaysia pada membaikan mata pencharian hidup nelayan2 kita dan menaikkan ekonomi kita dalam bidang perikanan ini, saya nampak walau pun dalam Bill ini mengkechualikan ber- hubong dengan perikanan di-Singapura, di-Sarawak dan di-Sabah tetapi satu perkembangan baharu yang merupakan kebulatan murni-nya daripada negara Sarawak dan Sabah ia-itu melambai2kan buroh2 daripada Tanah Melayu ini supaya datang di-negeri itu maka itu saya mengharapkan atas dengan kebijaksanaan Yang Berhormat Ke menterian ini supaya dapat memerhati- kan dan mem boleh kan juga nelayan2 daripada Tanah Melayu ini supaya dapat menangkap ikan di-peraycran Sarawak dan Sabah itu.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, biar-lah kita ta' dapat ikan2 yang baik dalam kawasan perayeran laut Melaka sa-kira-nya ada anchaman2 daripada lanun2 yang datang, atau perompak2 itu.

yang datang daripada Indonesia 2653 18 DECEMBER 1963 2654 Hal ini bukan sahaja berlaku dalam confrontasi masa kita menghadapi Indonesia itu, tetapi sa-belum daripada confrontasi itu pun, nelayan2 yang saya sebutkan di-dalam Daerah Muar pernah kena ganggu sa-umpama itu .

.

.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Order!


Di-bawah fasal berapa awak berchakap di-atas Pindaan Rang Undang2 yang di-bahath- kan berkenaan dengan dasar ini?

Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya membahathkan atas kehendak perkembangan yang di-sebut- kan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Pertanian dan Sharikat Kerjasama.

Mr Speaker: Saya hendak mengingat- kan perbahathan di-dalam Majlis ini ia-itu masaalah membahathkan dasar2 dan pindaan undang2 yang ada di- hadapan Majlis ini.
Saya ta' boleh benar membahathkan dasar2 yang luar dari pada apa yang ada dalam pindaan ini.

Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Oleh itu, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya mengharap- kan pada pehak Kementerian ini supaya dapat meneliti dan mengkaji atas apa2 shor yang telah saya kemukakan di-atas Rang Undang2 Pindaan ini.
Enche' Geh Chong Keat (Pulau Pinang Utara): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives informed this House, in his introduction, that this Bill seeks to control fishing and fisheries not only within the territorial waters, but also in waters adjacent to the territorial waters due to the advancement in the methods of fishing.

The fact still lies, even after the approval of this Bill, on the effectiveness of the control intended.
This Bill, under the respective sections, seeks to control: (a) Clause 2 (dd)—Types of nets to be used for purposes of preventing the destructure of fish.

(b) Clause 9—Extension of Court jurisdiction to territorial waters.

(c) Clause 10—By substituting word "vessel" for "ship".

the (d) Clause 11 (b)—Extension of fishing ground to maritime waters.

(e) Clause 11 (e)—By inserting "vessel" includes any ship or boat or any other description of vessel used for fishing.
Mr Speaker, Sir, this Bill can be interpreted in two ways: to (1) To legislate control laws Trawler Fishing with Govern ment's approval, provided this Trawler Fishing operates within and in conformity with the law.

(2) To control Trawler Fishing in view of the hardships caused to the existing offshore fishermen and resulting in their appeal to the Minister to answer their call for relief to their existing plight and hardships.
Mr Speaker, Sir, it has been argued, in this House and outside this House, about this modern method of fishing and the economic method of securing supplies of such a vital item of food for the population of this country.

In such an argument the Members of this House must not forget the thousands of fishermen and their families.
Shall we sacrifice these people's the sake of progress, livelihood for provide safeguards and protection to maintain their survival, or later start another crash programme of relief?

the Minister and intend Sir, let us study what is going on to under Trawler Fishing.

I speak on Trawler Fishing because, under this relevant section, there is provision, as I have illustrated earlier, that Trawler Fishing could be legalised.
improved method This is really an which was learnt from the Thai fisher men, who encroached upon our terri torial waters in and around Kuala Perlis.

Within the State of Penang we have had our fair share of these problems.

Sir, the local fishermen were very badly hit by Trawler Fishing around their fishing ground without and within the territorial waters.

Now, Sir, I would like to mention some of their problems.
They are: (a) Nets at off-shore within a few fathoms of about 7 to 9 were cut and destroyed, and such nets cost about a few thousand dollars.

(b) Trawling in shallow waters with modified "otter trawl" and shrimp nets destroy the breeding grounds and the small fishes.

2655 18 DECEMBER 1963 2656 I understand from the Fisheries Officers and the officials of the Fisheries Depart ment that Government approved otter trawl.
However, such otter trawl has been modified, modified with plastic reels and guiders so that with the weight of the nets and the guiders the thing sink into the mud.

So as they drag, these modified otter trawl nets churn up the sea beds and destroy the breeding grounds.

The officials of the Fisheries Department still think that they are using the otter trawl but, on the other hand, in their classification, otter trawl should be used at least six feet from the sea bed and in deep waters.
The other problem, Sir, since trawling started is that these off-shore and in shore fishermen have to face the hard ship which has been created.

Their meagre daily income of about $5 drop ped to about 50 cents and some even have not got enough money to buy petrol for the improved methods which RIDA and the Fisheries Department have encouraged these people to use.
The numerous adverse effects on these fishermen have really caused great hardship, and I am sure it would take a long time to convince them to accept trawler fishing, which may be recom mended by our officials who have been sent overseas to learn and who feel that this method would really set the ball rolling in modernising our methods and modes of fishing.

The Government places a ban on trawler fishing, and yet we see them trawling.
I am sure there are many reports of trawler fishing within the reports territorial waters.

Numerous have been made to Police Stations, and I personally have received reports of trawler fishing as early as 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning.

Sir, trawler fishing has really affected our local fishermen.

The Member for Tanjong—I am sorry he is not here now, and it is not my intention to refer to him in his absence.

However, I think it is inevitable for me to mention this at this juncture.
It has affected the people, and when people are being affected, and their livelihood has been endangered, political parties will naturally make capital out of it.

The Member for Tanjong has not very clearly specilied whether he supports or he is against trawler fishing.

From the tone of his speech he supports the Alliance backbenchers in their speeches and their comments on this Fisheries Bill.
However, I mention this since he referred to this being used as political capital at the recent election at Balik Pulau, Penang Island.

The Socialist Front sought this as a political platform, saying that if they should win the election, they would see that trawler fishing is banned.

to misuse Enche' Tan Phock Kin: On a point of clarification .

.

.. that in Malaya know, Enche' Geh Chong Keat: I am sorry, Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not giving way.
I am only just referring to him, and I am sure he heard it when he came in.

Sir, the Socialist Front has assured the people that if they win they will ban trawler fishing; then they libelled the Alliance Government for supporting the capitalists.

However, that has been explained to the people, by the move made by the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives by going to meet the people.
We know very well that the people the trawler fishing people concerned have sent representatives to see the Honour able Minister at Kuala Lumpur and it was very good and kind of the Minister to condescend to meet the in-shore and off-shore fishermen at Penang.

There fore, the people had the privilege of "Muhammed coming to the mountain".

Sir, that was indeed a great privilege.

The Member for Tanjong was, I am sure, not sure of the action of the Socialist Front at the Penang City Council.
Here, according to his tone, he is, I presume, against trawler fishing.

But on the other hand, if you go to Penang Island, you will see trawler fishing boats anchored at the Green Parrot area within the City Council's control: even that is not enough; they have allowed construction of sheds or illegal structures—this is abetted by the Socialist Front who control the City Council.
Sir, I am very worried as to what positive action the local fishermen, who are adversely affected by this trawler 2657 18 DECEMBER 1963 2658 the that law and fishing, will take.

Many have their patience exhausted in reporting to the police and being informed by the law officers that they could not act due to shortage of marine patrol boats, and also that there are loopholes in the existing trawler fishermen must be caught in the act of fishing.
It is really a great and difficult task to catch them trawling outside the specified period.

I have been invited by the trawler fishing people to go on one of their trawler fishing trips, but I thought it was wise of me not to go as the gears are manual manipulated, the trawler net could be let down at the will of the skipper or the man at the control.

It could be let down within five or six fathoms or even up to twenty fathoms.
Sir, the danger also lies in the fact that these trawler fishing people know of the defect in the law and are trawling very openly, in spite of the ban.

I feel that Government should continue with the ban on trawler fishing.
Until the law has been properly tightened up, or so formulated under watertight conditions, where the fishermen's interest is being fully safeguarded against the detriment of fishermen, and off-shore Government must provide protection to by means of prevent illegal trawling and clashes at sea.
As the trawlers—I am not suggesting it, but it may happen, as inevitable things do happen—are bigger and high- powered boats they may ram the smaller boats during one of these clashes in order to avoid being caught at fishing during the period of the ban.

fishermen's patrol small Under this Bill, as I have said earlier, trawler the Minister cannot prevent fishing in certain area, and he seeks control.

May I suggest some precautions and conditions?


To start with, many trawler fishermen have openly declared that they fish outside territorial waters and within fifteen to twenty fathoms.

Our officials have also referred to the fishing systems and methods adopted at the Dogger Banks.

I would suggest that if trawler fishing is intended as a modern method, it should really go into deep waters.
I would suggest trawler fishing in twenty fathoms, or twelve miles, whichever is the farthest, outside our coastline—that is outside of our territorial water which is three miles, and a further nine miles away from these territorial boundary.

Then, the question also would come in about the demar cation of the territorial water.
I wish that the Minister would have his officers clearly briefed on these and also demar cate the landing site for these boats to land their catches and the route to the open sea which must be indicated, so as to prevent illegal trawlling on the way out to the open sea and on the way in.

As you know, most of the fish that had been caught and sold in the market had shown indication that the fish had been caught in shallow water rather than in twenty fathoms of water.
Further, I would suggest a fishermen's scheme as a crash programme, and this fishermen's scheme should assist the local fishermen to improve their methods of fishing.

This would contribute in part to the programme of rural develop ment in the economic uplift of these fishermen in the rural areas.
Unless all these necessary precautions have been worked out and properly formulated to safeguard the in-shore and off-shore fishermen's livelihood, it could not be said that we are looking after them and protecting it could also be interpreted that we are legalising trawler fishing which has been affecting the fishermen very adversely.

livelihood.
livelihood.

Then, their At this juncture, Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to convey to the Honour able Minister of Agriculture and Co operatives the confidence of the local in-shore and off-shore in the State of Penang and their faith in him (Applause) in that he certainly will not sacrifice the livelihood of the local off-shore and small fishermen for the sake of progress, and that he will protect them and work towards their economic uplift.
fishermen The Member for Tanjong had chosen to mention the vote of no confidence in the Minister at Kuala Kedah.

Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr Speaker, Sir, it was not a vote of confidence, but a vote of no confidence.

Enche' Geh Chong Keat: A vote of no confidence, as I said—his hearing must be bad.

2659 18 DECEMBER 1963 2660 Mr Speaker: Order, order!

I was wondering whether it has got anything to do with this Bill at all.

Enche' Geh Chong Keat: I am just explaining the vote of no confidence.
Mr Speaker: Make it as short as possible.

to stand up and Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Yes, Sir.

As I have already said just now, trawler fishing has very adversely affected the fishermen and the political parties will naturally take advantage of it and try to put a wedge between the people and the Government.
I would not be sur prised if it would be the exaggerated do ing of the Opposition in having a group of speak— people as it was not a political meeting—and spoke as reported and exaggerated and proposed vote of no confidence as they did.

But that must not be misconstrued as the wish and desire of the people.

Sir, before concluding, I wish to say that the Minister of Fisheries and Agriculture had on the way, indicated his sympathy with the fishermen and he had made a press release.
We the backbenchers here who have spoken in sympathy with the inshore and offshore fishermen hope that the Minister will take this, as sacred trust of the fishermen for him to help the economic upliftment of the people and protect them against one of struggles these unfortunate between the livelihood of the people and progress.
Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah (Kota Bharu Hilir): Dato' Yang di-Pertua, saya suka mengambil bahagian di-dalam perbahathan pindaan di-hadapan kita ini, Dato' Yang di-Pertua, ada-lah ia-lah satu mata perkara perikanan pencharian kehidupan yang besar di-sisi orang2 nelayan yang hidup di-tepi2 pantai Semenanjong Tanah Melayu ini.

Pendek kata, boleh-lah di-bilangkan ribu orang2 bahawasa-nya beratus2 Melayu yang ada-lah mata pencharian kehidupan mereka itu datang-nya dari- pada perikanan.
Tetapi malang-nya nasib mereka yang burok bahawasa-nya jalan2 dan chara2 mereka itu menangkap ikan pada masa sekarang ini ada-lah chara2 yang kolot atau pun di-namakan sa-bagai primitive method.

Mereka ini mempunyai perahu yang kechil2 dan tali2 dan alat menangkap ikan yang itu menangkap barangkali mempunyai harga modal yang tidak lebeh daripada $100 atau $200 sahaja.
Oleh sebab kekurangan modal bagi mata pencharian kehidupan chara2 mereka ikan maka mereka itu terpaksa bergantong kapada kaum pemodal yang ada ber- taboran di-sa-kitar Tanah Melayu ini.

Kerana tipu-helah kaum pemodal ini— banyak-lah daripada orang Melayu yang telah tergadai perahu2 mereka itu dan sekarang mi mereka itu menjadi hamba abdi kapada kaum kapitalis.

Mr Speaker: Order!

order!

tolong-lah tumpukan kapada pindaan Undang2 ini.

Jangan sangat mukaddimah-nya.
terlalu panjang Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Dato' Yang di-Pertua, di-dalam pindaan yang tersebut di-hadapan kita ini ada-lah satu perkara yang mana tersebut di- dalam pindaan ini, ia-itu stake atau pun kelong; kelong atau pun belat pok ada-lah satu belat untok menangkap ikan yang telah di-punyai oleh kaum kapitalis semenjak dari tahun 1959 lagi, boleh di-bilangkan segala nelayan Tanah Melayu ini telah meminta kapada parti Perikatan yang menang dalam tahun 1959 untok mengharamkan belat itu.
Sa-bagaimana pok atau kelong lagi bahawa ingat yang dapat kita Kerajaan Perikatan berjanji hendak menghapuskan belat pok, tetapi sa- hingga hari ini benda itu maseh berjalan lagi.

Bukan sahaja belat pok yang berjalan sekarang ini, bahkan di-tambah pula dengan pukat harimau sa-bagai mana yang banyak daripada Ahli2 Dewan telah berchakap dahulu daripada saya pada pagi ini.
Belat pok dan pukat harimau ada-lah satu mala- petaka yang telah menimpa kapada kaum nelayan orang2 Melayu yang menyebabkan orang2 Melayu dari kaum2 nelayan itu hilang mata pencharian-nya telah dan sekarang menjadi hamba abdi kapada kaum kapitalis.

Tetapi apa-kah tindakan yang di-buat oleh Kerajaan Perikatan?
Sa- bagaimana yang kita ingat bahawa di-Kuala Kedah, kaum nelayan telah membuat satu undi tidak perchaya kapada Menteri Yang Berhormat, kerana beliau tidak mengambil berat di-atas nasib mereka itu dan kehidupan mereka itu yang pahit.
Tetapi baharu2 ini mereka itu ini 2661 18 DECEMBER 1963 2662 ini kita dengar Menteri2 daripada pehak Kerajaan ia-itu Yang Berhormat Menteri Perikanan telah tiba di-sana memberi pertolongan wang kapada mereka2 itu, ini boleh jadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kerana masa Pilehan Raya sudah hampir tiba dan pertolongan pun di-keluarkan kapada mereka itu.

Tetapi apabila telah menang di-dalam Pilehan Raya yang akan tiba tahun 1964 ini maka Kerajaan Perikatan tidak lagi mengambil hirau di-atas nasib orang2 Melayu itu.
Enche' Abdul Razak bin Hussin (Lipis): On a point of order 36 (1) sa-saorang ahli hendak-lah menghadkan percha- kapan-nya kapada perkara yang di- binchangkan sahaja.

Soal undi tidak perchaya dan Pilehan Raya tidak kena mengena di-sini, saya harap, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, boleh tahan dia sadikit (Ketawa).

Mr Speaker: Jikalau ada perkara2 yang di-bangkitkan di-sabelah pagi maka terpaksa Ahli2 yang lain berchakap perkara itu, tetapi tolong-lah jangan di-panjangkan.
Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Terima kaseh, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pagi tadi saya telah sebutkan bahawa beberapa orang Ahli Yang Berhormat telah menyentoh perkara itu, oleh sebab yang demikian terpaksa-lah saya me nyentoh juga sadikit.

itu sahaja Kerajaan Nasib dan malang-nya kaum nelayan2 orang2 Melayu kita sekarang maseh terbiar sahaja.

Belum lagi ada satu langkah yang telah di-perbuat oleh Kerajaan untok membaiki chara2 me- nangkap lagi satu ikan, belum ada langkah yang boleh di-sebutkan.
Bukan sa-takat telah kechiwa di-dalam perkara ini bahkan juga di-dalam perkara Marketing atau perkara menjual ikan.

Kaum2 nelayan telah menggadaikan nyawa mereka itu— apabila mereka keluar ka-luat menang- kap ikan, tetapi apabila mereka dapat ikan dan bawa pulang ka-pantai di-sana- lah sudah menanti kaum tengah atau kaum pemodal untok mengisap darah mereka.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Order!

Saya hendak mengingatkan lagi, ini bukan 'am.


Ada perbahathan di-atas dasar masa-nya yang kita boleh berchakap di-atas dasar 'am—general principle of the Bill, itu ada-nya.

Tetapi sekarang kita hanya-lah membahathkan satu pindaan yang ada di-hadapan Majlis ini.

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah rises.

Mr Speaker: Saya belum habis lagi.

Kita satu sekarang membahathkan pindaan yang ada di-hadapan kita ini dan tolong-lah tumpukan di-atas pin daan yang ada di-hadapan Majlis ini sahaja.
Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sebab-nya saya masok berchakap tentang Marketing ini kerana tujuan Bill ini ia-lah untok membaiki keadaan yang burok ini.

Mr Speaker: Di-bawa fasal berapa?

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Saya maseh lagi menyentoh fasal 8 removal dan lain2 lagi.

Mr Speaker: Itu tidak ada kena mengena dengan Marketing.

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Di-dalam Amendment 8 muka 2 ada menyebutkan fasal kerosakan.
Mr Speaker: Saya fikir fasal 2 itu ada sadikit munasabah "for the purpose of preventing the destruction of fish, ", itu ada regulate and control sadikit lebar perbahathan-nya.

Tetapi jaga jangan pergi kapada dasar 'am, kerana dasar 'am itu tidak ada kena mengena semua sa-kali dalam pindaan ini.
Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pendek kata ada-lah kelong atau pukat harimau ini ia-lah satu chara menangkap ikan yang telah mendatangkan kemiskinan kapada kaum nelayan orang2 Melayu kita di-dalam Tanah Melayu ini.

Oleh sebab yang demikian, saya berharap supaya Menteri yang tersebut mengharamkan pukat harimau ini sa-terus-nya.
Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari: Mr Speaker, Sir, when the Honourable Member for Tanjong made his speech, he said that he was very much amused at the attitude taken by the Alliance Back-benchers in the debate on the 2663 18 DECEMBER 1963 2664 I the performance of second reading of this Bill.

I must too was very much that confess amused by the Honourable Member, because he seemed to think that this Parliament meeting was an extension of the Balik Pulau by-election campaign!
By the tone of his speech, it appeared that he was running with the hare and hunting with the hound.

In fact, it reminded me of a story of what happened to a Socialist Front candidate at an election campaign meeting.

Among the crowd there was one lady and this Socialist Front candidate was telling the lady, "If you vote me in, I shall give plenty of work for your husband".

The lady said, "Are you sure about it?"

"Yes, certainly I am sure.


The Socialist Front never breaks any promise", that is what the Socialist Front candidate said.

Eventually, he asked the lady, "What is your husband's occupation?"

The lady replied, "Grave digger".

{Laughter).

Sir, I must, at the outset, most strongly refute the charge made by the Honourable Member for Tanjong that the amendments are brought in as a cloak to hoodwink the small fishermen because of the controversy on trawling.
Hoodwinking, I thought, is the prero gative of the Socialist Front.

As a matter of fact, if he will care to study the amendments carefully, he will see that these amendments cover all methods of fishing that are carried out outside the territorial waters of Malaya.

In short, the amendments are made to equip Government with sufficient powers to enable us to safeguard the interests of the small fishermen.
As the law stands, we are unable and, as a matter of fact, we are completely powerless to regulate any method of fishing outside our if such method is found to be detrimental to the interests of the smaller fishermen.
The expansion of our fisheries, as a result of and adoption of more productive and larger fishing units, has extended the area of fishing operations fishing grounds and, therefore, there is now the urgent need to bring in Clause 19 (a) of the Bill for the purpose of regulating the activities of our fishermen in the interest of all concerned.

territorial waters even rapid mechanisation to distant legalise trawling, Now, I would like to say something with regard to trawling in particular.
If trawling is to be introduced into this country and if it is legalised in this country—and I would stress here that so far no licence has been issued to anybody to do any trawling of any kind including otter-trawling—regula tions will have to be made to restrict these operations through licensing; and when we licence this trawling, we will have to take into account the depth of the areas, the size of the boats and the type of gear to be used in trawling.
I would like to stress here that if we do licences, when issued, will only be issued to genuine fishermen who have been in the fishing trade for a number of years before the applications are made for licences; and no licences will be issued to, what the for Tanjong Honourable Member termed as, the capitalists.
This is very important, because the purpose of the Government these schemes is to help the smaller fishermen; and, in fact, for the information of the Honourable Member for Tanjong, the Alliance has been returned to power not with the votes of capitalists but with the votes of the small fishermen and the small padi planters in the rural areas.

{Applause).

It is our bounden duty interests are always upheld.
If we do issue licences for there will be certain regulations imposed so as to ensure a fair share of the earnings amongst the workers and members of the crew so that exploitation of any kind will be avoided as far as possible.

initiating all to see that trawling, their in I must thank the Honourable Member for Pulau Pinang Utara for his very constructive suggestions.

I know that he has the genuine interests of the fishermen at heart and, in fact, he has been communicating with me over this matter.
that his I can assure him suggestions will be taken into conside ration when the right time comes.

Saya suka hendak menjawab segala hujah2 yang telah di-bawa oleh Ahli2 Yang Berhormat terutama sa-kali Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dari Pulau Pinang Selatan, Seberang Selatan, Perlis Selatan dan juga Krian Laut serta Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Pasir Puteh dan Kota 2665 18 DECEMBER 1963 2666 Bharu Hilir.
Pertama sa-kali saya suka memberitahu Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Pulau Pinang Selatan bahawa saperti mana yang saya sebutkan tadi jika sa-kira-nya Kerajaan hendak meng- halalkan Pukat Harimau ini tentu-lah perkara kesulitan dan kesusahan dari- pada penangkap2 ikan, atau pun nela yan2 yang kechil2 itu akan di-pereksa dengan halus-nya, dan sa-kira-nya sa-lepas kita mengadakan segala per- atoran2 yang ketat maseh lagi pukat yang sa-macham itu mengganggu nela- yan2 kita, maka saya berani memberi pengakuan kapada tuan2 pada hari ini lagi2 akan bahawa Kerajaan lengah2 terus-menerus akan mengharamkan-nya Pukat Harimau dalam Malaysia ini (Tepok).
tetapi tidak sa-macham ini dengan Berkenaan dengan 22 orang nelayan2 kita yang Kerajaan telah menghantar untok melihat bagaimana menangkap ikan di-negeri Thai, itu pun Kerajaan menghantar 22 orang nelayan2 ini bukan-lah untok makan angin, atau pun melihat2 sahaja saperti mana yang di-sebutkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Pasir Puteh itu, bahkan dengan tuju- an supaya mereka itu dapat melihat de ngan mata kepala mereka itu sendiri bagaimana orang2 Thai menjalankan pe- nangkapan ikan-nya supaya Pukat Tun- da ini, dan pada pendapat saya sendiri jika sa-kira-nya di-negeri Thai dapat di-jalankan sa-chara penangkapan ikan yang tidak mengganggu nelayan2 yang kechil yang menggunakan pukat2 kechil saperti mana Ambai, Payang dan sa-bagai-nya, saya ingat tidak ada satu sebab pun yang kita tidak boleh menggunakan pukat yang sa-macham itu dalam tanah ayer kita ini.
Jadi, dengan tujuan itu-lah kita berharap supaya mereka itu dapat belajar sa-dikit sa-banyak supaya apa- bila mereka itu puas hati bahawa dapat di-jalankan di-sini maka baharu-lah kita menjalankan-nya.

Saya sedar juga bahawa sa-kira-nya kita berkehendak- kan nelayan2 yang kechil itu mengada kan Pukat Harimau, tentu-lah mereka itu ta' mampu hendak membeli pukat2 yang sa-macham itu, kerana mereka itu tidak ada modal.
Tetapi, dalam hal ini saya suka juga memberi pengakuan kapada Dewan ini bahawa pehak Kerajaan sedang menimbangkan satu jalan, satu chara baharu yang dapat menolong bagi mereka itu bagi mem- bolehkan nelayan2 yang suka hendak menukarkan daripada chara yang lapok itu kapada chara yang berkemajuan dengan bantuan2 yang membolehkan mereka itu berbuat bagitu dengan senang-nya.

Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Perlis Selatan.


nampak-nya di-sana orang2 Perlis fasal mereka dudok dekat dengan negeri Siam, mereka itu dapat pengaroh Siam, maka mereka itu setuju dengan Pukat Harimau ini.
Jadi, ini-lah yang saya katakan, kalau mithal-nya kita tidak menghalalkan Pukat Harimau itu, apa yang akan jadi ia-lah Pukat Harimau daripada luar negeri, umpama- nya Siam akan masok kapada perayeran antara bangsa, atau pun international waters yang berjiran dengan perayeran kita sendiri, dan pada masa itu mereka dengan bebas-nya akan dapat menang ikan2 daripada perayeran kap itu, tetapi sa-balek-nya bagi kita yang ada di-sini ta' dapat pula menangkap ikan2 itu dengan sebab kita telah meng- haramkan Pukat Harimau.
Jadi salah- nya bukan salah Pukat Harimau itu, tetapi salah kita sendiri.
Sa-kira-nya kita mendatangkan Pukat Harimau itu dengan chara yang sa-benar-nya yang boleh memelihara kepentingan nelayan2 yang kechil, maka saya memang me ngatakan bahawa ini-lah chara yang baik sa-kali dan chara yang berkema juan, kerana jika sa-kira-nya negeri Philipina, negeri Jepon, negeri Siam semua-nya dapat menggunakan dengan jaya-nya, saya ingat ini-lah satu chara yang baik yang boleh melepaskan nelayan2 yang kechil daripada keke- jaman kaum2 pemodal yang memang membayar dengan gaji yang chukop rendah pada masa ini untok mendapat- kan titek peloh daripada kaum2 nelayan kita.
Ada juga pendapat2 yang sa-tengah daripada sa-tengah-nya mengatakan bahawa dengan sebab ada-nya Pukat Harimau maka segala anak2 ikan sudah mati.

Tadi Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Krian Laut mengatakan Pukat Harimau ini kikis semua sa-kali, sampai ikan bilis pun dia kikis.
Ini nampak pada dia, tetapi kita di-sana kata "Bom" sadikit, kerana atau pun pelemah 2667 18 DECEMBER 1963 2668 itu pun ta' biasa memang Pukat Harimau itu ta" boleh ambil ikan bilis, ikan bilis ini dia mahu "Pukat Special" untok pukat ikan bilis.

Jadi, nampak-nya Ahli Yang Berhormat tengok lagi Pukat Harimau ini.
Di-atas segala pandangan dari Ahli Yang Berhormat itu memang-lah saya junjong tinggi dan saperti mana yang saya telah memberi pengakuan tadi bahawa saya tidak akan menjalankan apa juga tindakan bagi Pukat Harimau ini sa-lagi pehak kita tidak berpuas hati yang dapat menolong pehak kaum2 nelayan kita yang kechii2 itu.
Sunggoh pun kita berchakap pada hari ini ini, berbinchang pada hari bersangkut dengan perayeran dan sa- bagai-nya, tetapi bagi Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Pasir Puteh dan juga Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kota Bharu Hilir telah menyebutkan berkenaan dengan nasib kaum2 nelayan yang pada umum-nya mereka mengatakan yang Kerajaan Perikatan tidak membuat apa2 pun bagi menolong kaum2 nelayan itu.
Yang sa-benar-nya Kerajaan kita telah pun membuat berbagai2 ranchangan, tetapi untok menolong sa-suatu kaum yang memang sudah kena tindas dengan bagitu lama, tentu-lah mengambil masa yang chukup panjang.

Saya yakin ada perchaya jika sa-kira-nya Kerajaan kita dapat berkuasa terus-menerus dalam masa lima tahun yang akan datang, kita akan dapat membuat banyak lagi bagi kaum2 nelayan kita supaya mereka itu dapat penghidupan yang baharu di-dalani negara Malaysia kita ini.
Kita tidak-lah hairan bagi Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Pasir Puteh dan juga Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kota Bharu Hilir yang mengkritik kita, tetapi saya kata Kerajaan Perikatan dengan Kera jaan PAS ada berlainan.

Kerajaan Perikatan buka Klinik Bidan, tetapi orang2 besar PAS buka "Pusat Bidan".

Kalau Tuan Yang di-Pertua ta' perchaya bacha-lah dalam surat khabar ber sangkut dengan orang besar PAS yang membuka Pusat Bidan di-Besut itu.

Jadi, ini-lah yang berlainan di-antara PAS dengan UMNO.
Kita buka Klinik Bidan, dia buka Pusat Bidan.

Berkenaan dengan lain2 hujah yang di-bawa oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Muar Utara, saya uchapkan terima kerana kaseh dia menchadangkan supaya saya berunding dengan Kerajaan Sarawak dan Sabah supaya dapat nelayan2 daripada tanah besar Malaysia kita ini dapat pergi ka-sana.
Perkara berkenaan dengan perikanan ini me mang-lah di-bawah kuasa Kerajaan Pusat, dan saya akan berunding dengan Kerajaan Sarawak dan Sabah dan saya rasa tidak-lah ada tegahan bagi mereka itu untok menerima nelayan2 kita bagi menangkap ikan di-lautan mereka itu.

Terima kaseh (Tepok).

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.

House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

Bill considered in Committee.


(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1 to 13 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment: read a third time and passed.

MOTION THE CUSTOMS DUTIES (AMEND MENT) (No.

9) ORDER, 1963 Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the motion standing in my name.

The purpose of this Order is to give effect to the changes in Customs duties which were notified to the House in my Budget speech on 16th December.
Since copies of my speech haw been distributed to all Honourable Members, and I gave full reasons in that speech the proposed changes, I see no for point I might add that paragraphs 101 to 108 inclusive of that speech deal with the contents of this Order.

repeating myself again.

in I would like to draw the attention of Honourable Members to a drafting error which has crept into the Order Paper which is now before the House.

On page 2 the words in columns (4) and (5) opposite Code No.
599950 should read "$2 per gallon'' in both cases therefore, instead of "$2".

I would, 2669 18 DECEMBER 1963 2670 like the House to confirm this motion subject to this correction.

I believe also that copies of this amendment slip have been circulated to Honourable Members.

Sir, I beg to move, That this House resolves that in accordance with the powers vested in it by virtue of sub section (2) of section 10 of the Customs Ordi nance, 1952, the Customs Duties (Amendment) (No.
9) Order, 1963, which has been laid before the House as Statute Paper No.

78 of 1963 be confirmed.

The Minister of Commerce and Industry, (Dr Lim Swee Aun): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolved, That this House resolves that in accordance with the powers vested in it by virtue of sub section (2) of section 10 of the Customs Ordi nance, 1952, the Customs Duties (Amendment) (No.

9) Order, 1963, which has been laid before the House as Statute Paper No.
78 of 1963 be confirmed.

of Medicine have merged to form the Malayan Medical Association, while the United Planting Association of Malaya is now not so much concerned with poisons.

Poisons, such as sodium arsenite, which are chiefly used by rubber plantations are now more the the Rubber Producers' concern of Council.

Under the circumstances, a change in the membership of the Poisons Board to provide for persons to be appointed upon the nomination of the appropriate bodies is found desirable.
The Bill, Sir, provides for such a change.

Sir, I beg to move.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.

THE POISONS (AMENDMENT) BILL Second Reading The Minister of Health (Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill entitled "An Act to alter the membership of the Poisons Board" be read a second time.
The purpose of this Bill is to provide for a change in the membership of the Poisons Board, made necessary by changed circumstances.
At present, Sir, under section 2A of the Poisons Or dinance, 1952, provision is made for the appointment of nine persons to the Poisons Board of which one person is appointed upon the nomination of each of the following Associations: (1) the Malayan Branch of the British Medical Association; (2) the Alumni Association of the King Edward VII College of Medicine and Faculty of Medi cine; and (3) the United Planting Association of Malaya.
Since then, the Malayan Branch of the British Medical Association and the Alumni Association of the King Edward VII College of Medicine and Faculty House immediately resolved into a Committee on the Bill.

itself Bill considered in Committee.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment: read the third time and passed.
THE RUBBER INDUSTRY (REPLANTING) FUND (AMENDMENT) BILL Second Reading The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Dr Lim Swee Aun): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled "an Act to amend the Rubber Industry (Replanting) Fund Ordinance, 1952" be read a second time.
to Sir, the Bill provides for a number of amendments to the Rubber Industry (Replanting) Fund Ordinance, 1952 in order implement Government's the decision Rubber Industry to replant and new plant by making available a further sum of $200 million.

Opportunity has also been taken to amend the first and second schedules of the Ordinance.

to continue to assist 2671 18 DECEMBER 1963 2672 in to the I wish industry.
the Rubber Clauses 1, 2, 3 and 6 of the Bill make provisions Industry (Replanting) Fund Ordinance, 1952, the introduction of schemes for for replanting and new planting to be financed from the $200 million Govern ment grant.
The decision to provide the grant was made early this year the Government had carefully after considered rubber the need of industry to continue to replant in order to face the challenge from the synthetic inform rubber Honourable Members that this is the second financial assistance to be given by Government to the industry.
Some Honourable members may already be aware that in 1955 the Government made a grant of S280 million to the rubber industry to help it to replant this grant was divided propor and tionately between and their smallholders on production figures.

Out of this first grant $I68 million was to finance the Government Rubber Replanting Scheme for estates which came to an end on 31st December, 1962.
The remaining $112 million went to finance a number of schemes dealing with replanting, new planting and the supply of planting materials for the benefit of the small holders.

These schemes have so far resulted the replanting of about 948,000 acres and new planting of about 275,200 acres.

the estates the basis of in With think the growing challenge from synthetic rubber I do not it necessary for me to dwell at length on the need to continue and, to intensify rubber replanting.
In recent years, the competition from synthetic rubber has steadily increased.

The threat of synthe tic rubber has enhanced not only by the increased capacity of its production through the erection of new plants in many countries of the world, but also through the introduction of the stereo- regular rubbers wrhich are claimed to be a complete replacement for natural rubber.
We have to accept the view, which economists and scientists con nected with the industry have reached, that increasing competition from syn thetic rubber will mean that the price of natural rubber will follow a downward trend towards the end of the decade.

The industry must, therefore, be pre pared to be in a position to sell at a price highly competitive with that of its synthetic counterpart.
is that advisers The view held by the Industry and its scientific efficient producers of natural rubber can compete with any synthetic now in existence or in sight.

To achieve this, productivity must be high so that the cost of produc tion can be reduced and the income of even smallholders maintained increased through improved yields.

The most important single measure which can be taken to increase productivity is.

of course, the replacement of old and low yielding trees by high yielding ones.
or is the The dependence of this country on the rubber industry for its prosperity and continued progress too well known to need further emphasis.
We are fully aware of the need to take all practical steps to reduce this dependence, the country's by diversification of economy and introduction of found alternative crops which are suitable on any new area to be opened up, but we do not consider that the pursuit of diversification in any way lessens the absolute necessity to moder nize, as much as possible, the areas at present planted with rubber.
In the past, even low yielding areas have contributed to the prosperity of this country and the employment of its peoples.

It is, however, apparent that by the end of this decade increased competition with synthetic with resulting lower prices may well render these areas unproduc tive and derelict unless replanting is undertaken.
It seems clear that the next few years will be the last chance for natural rubber growers to complete the modernisation of industry and achieve reduction in costs before the impact of competition from synthetic rubber is fully felt.

We, therefore, have to conclude that the necessity for more and continuing replanting to be carried out as soon as possible is even more vital at the present time than when the government schemes for assistance were first instituted in 1955.
I hope Hon'ble Members will now be convinced of the need to help the rubber industry to replant.

their 2673 18 DECEMBER 1963 2674 I will now explain the Bill clause by clause: (a) Clause 1 (2) of the Bill states that the provisions of the Act shall have application only in the States of Malaya.

This is necessary since the $200 million grant was approved before the formation of Malaysia and that the grant is to be used to assist the rubber planting industry in the States of Malaya to replant or new plant.
(b) Clause 2 (2) of the Bill amends sections 12 (4) and 13 (2) (b) of the Ordinance so that schemes prepared by the Rubber Industry Replanting Board for the benefit of the estates to be financed from the $116 million out of the $200 million grant shall conform to the principles set out in the Fourth Schedule to the Ordinance.
(c) Clause 2 (3) of the Bill amends section 13 (2) (a) and 13 (3) (c) of the Ordinance so that— (i) The estimated cost of any scheme expressed for the benefit of estates shall be the estimated such that aggregate the to cost Government for all schemes so approved shall not exceed $116 million; (ii) The estimated cost of any scheme expressed to be for the benefit of smallholders shall be such that the esti mated aggregate cost to the Government for all schemes so approved shall not exceed $84 million.
The allocation of the Fund between the estate and the smallholding sectors is based on their res pective production figures; shall expire on such dates as may be prescribed in the said schemes and in any case not earlier than 31st December, 1966 and not later than 31st December, 1971; (iv) Payments under the new scheme shall be made not later than 31st December, 1972.
(iii) The new schemes (d) Clause 2 (4) of the Bill provides that the aggregate of the sums for the new schemes to be charged upon the Federation Revenue shall not exceed $200 million.

(e) Clause 3 (a) of the Bill provides that the Ordinance shall continue in force until 31st December, 1972 instead of 31st December, 1967.
( /) Clause 3 (b) of the Bill provides that as soon as is possible after the expiration of the Ordinance the Board shall make a scheme or schemes for the winding up of any scheme so expiring and for the disposal of any moneys paid to the Board and remaining unexpended that date and any moneys at required by the Board for the completion of any such scheme so expiring.

(g) Clause 6 of the Bill makes provi sion for a fourth schedule to be added to the Ordinance.
The fourth schedule contains the main prin ciples which shall be conformed to by the scheme expressed for the benefit of the estates financed from the $116 million out of the Govern ment grant of $200 million.
These principles are briefly as follows— A new Government Rubber Replanting Scheme for estates effective from the beginning of 1962 will be introduced, making provision for the payment of $400 per acre towards the cost of replanting/new planting with rubber or other approved crops up to 15 per cent of the planted acreage of estates as at 31st December, 1961.
Those estates which as at 31st December, 1961 have over 85 per cent of their rubber acreage under high yiel ding material will receive special consideration in respect of their eligibility for grant assistance for the full 15 per cent of their acre age.

The total grant for estates will amount to $116 million.
As regards the smallholder sector, a Joint Working Party of Govern ment and industry representative is now actively examining ways and means of providing further 2675 18 DECEMBER 1963 2676 assistance to the smallholders who are now replanting/new planting under Fund "B'' Clause 4 of the Bill amends the first schedule of the Ordinance which deals with the disposition of Funds collected as replanting cess from 1st January, 1951 to 31st May, 1955.
The cess which was based on the rubber price, was collected in order to build up a reserve fund for replanting purposes both for estates and smallholders and was refunded to them from time to time against claims for expenditure on replanting or new planting.
In March, 1952 an additional replant ing cess of 4i cents per lb was introduced in order to enable the Government to collect replanting cess from the small holders for transfer to the smallholders Replanting Fund, commonly known as "B" The estate sector was Fund brought in for administrative conve nience, and the cess was therefore refunded to the estate sector uncon ditionally on the submission of produc tion data.
The disposition of funds due to estates collected through the addi tional cess is dealt with under the second schedule to the Ordinance.

The Funds collected under the First and Second Schedules for estates have been paid into Fund " A" established under the Ordinance.

The First Schedule makes provision for the expenses of the Administration of the cess collected and also for the investment of such funds.
On the other hand, the Second Schedule does not make any provision for expenditure to be charged against and for income to be accumulated from the funds so collected.

The object of this is to enable refunds to be made to the estates at the actual rate at which the cess has been collected (i.e.

41/2 cents per lb) since they participate in the re planting cess purely on a voluntary basis.
However, in view of the delays in submission of claims for refunds by estates, it was found necessary to invest the funds collected under the Second Schedule and as that Schedule makes no provision for income and expenditure, the interest collected has been credited to the Funds referred to in the First Schedule to the Ordinance.

The interest earned from the invest ment of the First Schedule Funds as well as the Second Schedule Funds has been used to meet the expenses of operating Fund "A".
From the 1st of January, 1951 to 31st of May, 1955 the balance under the First Schedule Funds has been credited to the participants of the Fund in proportion to rubber produced by each participant for the period during which the First Schedule cess was collected (1st January, 1951 to 31st May, to them against 1955) and refunded claims for expenditure on replanting or new planting.
Since 1st June, 1955 all interests on investments less the total administrative expenses of Fund " A" have continued to be credited to the First Schedule, but have not been apportioned to participants due to the fact that the First Schedule cess ceased to be collected from that date.

As a result, an excess of income over expenditure has accumu lated since that date.
The amendment to the First Schedule thus provides that the excess of income over expenditure on the running of Fund "A" be treated as belonging to Fund " A" and be set aside as a Fund from which to pay the expenses of Fund "A".

Any excess may be reserved for the purpose of either to provide additional refunds to parti cipants of Fund " A" or to make up the refund of the Second Schedule Replant ing Cess to 41/2 cents per pound in any year when the cess collected does not make such refund possible.
Clause 5 of the Bill amends the Third Schedule to the Ordinance.

At present the Third Schedule to the Ordinance provides for admission into the First Estate Replanting Scheme of areas replanted or planted with high yielding rubber or other approved crops on or before 31st December, 1962 but not areas planted or replanted with ordinary seedlings on or before 31st December, 1962 for subsequent bud-grafting in 1963 or 1964.
It has now been decided that areas replanted or planted with ordinary seedlings on or before 31st December, 1962 for subsequent bud-grafting in the year 1963 or 1964 should also be admit ted into the scheme.

The amendments to the Third Schedule provide for the admission of the scheme.

This amendment will not these areas into 2677 18 DECEMBER 1963 incur any additional expenditure on the part of Government.

Sir, I beg to move.

Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid bin Awang Osman: Sir, I beg to second the motion.
Enche' Mohamed Yusof bin Mahmud (Temerloh): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya mengalu2kan Pindaan Undang2 yang ada di-hadapan kita ini berkenaan dengan hal New Replanting—pekebun2 kechil dan juga estate2.

Saya dalam mengalu2kan Bill ini merasa khuatir wang yang telah di-sediakan bermillion ringgit untok memberi peluang kapada pekebun2 kechil bertanam sa-mula atau pun bertanam chara baharu atas kebun2 mereka yang ada berselerak di-seluroh tanah ayer kita ini.
Kalau kita perhati- kan di-dalam penyata2, berapa banyak- kah pekebun2 kechil mengambil baha- gian untok menggunakan wang ini daripada masa dahulu dan pada masa ini juga pada masa hadapan sa-bagai mana yang di-uchapkan oleh Menteri Yang Berhormat tadi.

Saya khuatir wang ini tinggal sa-bagaimana biasa juga tidak dapat dengan sa-penoh-nya di-gunakan oleh pekebun2 kechil.

Sebab banyak halangan2 yang telah di-alami oleh pekebun2 kechil ini.
Jadi saya berharap dapat Menteri Yang Ber hormat ini meninjau mengapa-kah pe kebun2 kechil ini tidak mengambil bahagian yang besar dalam bantuan wang yang banyak ini yang telah di- sediakan oleh Kerajaan.

Satu perkara yang saya harap akan memberi faedah yang besar ia-itu membolehkan New Replanting atau bertanam baharu dari pada pekebun2 kechil yang dapat tanah dalam kawasan pinggir.
Mengikut Undang2 yang ada sekarang, tanah2 pinggir ini mereka2 yang tidak dapat tanah pinggir tidak boleh dapat wang bantuan New Replanting, sunggoh pun mereka itu ada getah 5 ekar ka-bawah.

Sebab kata-nya tanah2 ini tidak ada bergeran dan sa-bagai-nya.

Jadi saya rasa patut-lah di-fikirkan satu peratoran supaya membolehkan tanah2 pinggir yang berselerak terutama-nya sa-kali di-kawasan saya, di-bolehkan mendapat bantuan ini.
Yang kedua ia-itu pegawai2 yang menjalankan kerja supaya dapat me- narek hati pekebun2 kechil itu bagi 2678 menggalakkan mereka2 untok meng ambil bahagian dalam hal ini.

Tidak-lah sa-bagaimana yang saya telah alami ia-itu mereka2 berpegang tegoh kapada undang2 yang terator dalam segala undang2 yang di-kenakan kapada pe kebun2 kechil itu.
Jadi patut-lah di-beri peluang kapada mereka2 itu dengan di-timbangkan jikalau perkara2 yang menjalankan perkhidmatan2 ini, jikalau di-dapati kesilapan dengan tidak me- rugikan maka dapat-lah di-luluskan segala permintaan mereka2 itu.
Bagai- mana satu chontoh yang terjadi di- tempat saya, sa-telah pekebun kechil itu meminta bantuan berkenaan dengan tanam sa-mula, maka di-perentahkan kapada pekebun kechil itu menerangkan kebun-nya dan memberi ubat bagi merachonkan pokok2 getah-nya itu supaya mati, tetapi malang-nya apabila pegawai2 itu datang memereksa kapada kebun2 itu, maka di-dapati getah yang di-rachun oleh pekebun kechil itu belum lagi mati pada masa mereka itu datang memereksa.
Selalu-nya pemereksaan ini di-jalankan dalam bulan dua belas, atau bulan sa-belas.

Malang-nya rachun yang di-beri dan di-jalankan kerja-nya oleh pekebun2 kechil itu sa-bagaimana perentah yang telah di-beri oleh mereka itu, memberi kesan yang lambat dan pokok2 getah itu tidak mati sa-bagai mana ternyata yang telah saya sebutkan itu.
Dengan yang demikian di-salahkan- nya-lah kapada pekebun2 kechil itu yang mengatakan bahawa oleh kerana pokok2 getah itu tidak mati maka bantuan2 tidak akan di-beri, dan pada penyata itu pula di-sebutkan supaya tunggu pada hujong tahun hadapan.

Jadi ini ber- ma'ana-lah yang mereka2 itu terpaksa mengambil masa sa-tahun lagi dan ini mendatangkan kerugian yang besar kapada pekebun2 kechil itu.
Yang pertama, pekebun2 kechil itu sudah merachunkan pokok2 getah-nya dan tidak boleh di-tureh lagi, sa-telah ta' boleh di-tureh maka bantuan untok bertanam sa-mula ta' dapat di-beri dan mereka2 terpaksa menunggu lagi sa- tahun untok mendapatkan bantuan itu.

Dalam hal ini, saya telah berhubong dengan pegawai yang bertanggong-jawab dan mereka mengatakan bagitu-lah undang2-nya.
Di-sini saya berharap kapada Kerajaan, atau kapada mereka2 2679 18 DECEMBER 1963 2680 yang bertanggong-jawab yang menjalan- kan kerja2 ini hendak-lah bertimbang rasa sadikit, kerana bantuan ini, oleh sebab mereka2 itu ada-lah bergantong kapada pokok2 getah itu.

Pokok2 itu apabila di-rachunkan ada kala-nya dia mati dalam masa atau tempoh yang tertentu, tetapi ada kala-nya tidak.

Jadl rasa saya patut-lah di-ambil perhatian sadikit dalam perkara ini.
kapada Lagi satu perkara, kita perhatikan wang yang banyak maseh belum lagi dapat di-gunakan.

Ini patut-lah Kera- jaan memberi satu peluang yang pekebun2 kechil itu boleh mengadakan satu pakatan di-mana ramai di-antara mereka itu boleh menubohkan satu pertubohan dan pertubohan itu boleh- lah mengambil wang ini untok menjaya- kan tanah2 yang akan di-berikan oleh Kerajaan2 Negeri.
Perkara ini ada terjadi di-negeri saya di-mana board itu tidak sanggop hendak memberikan wang ini kapada badan itu, chuma board itu sanggop untok hendak mem persaorangan.

beri orang Perkara yang sa-macham ini akan ta' mungkin-nya ber- mengakibatkan jalan chara2 yang saperti itu.

Rasa saya ini satu lagi jalan yang membolehkan pekebun2 kechil itu menambahkan lagi kebun2 mereka yang telah lama itu dengan menggunakan wang yang ada banyak yang di-sediakan itu.
Rasa saya kalau-lah tiga empat perkara yang saya sebutkan tadi ta' dapat di-perhatikan, maka saya rasa peruntokan wang yang bagini banyak untok pekebun2 kechil itu akan maseh tertinggal sa-bagaimana biasa juga, sedangkan tujuan kita tentu- lah hendak menolong kapada mereka2 itu.

Oleh yang demikian, saya rasa juga di-ambil perkara perhatian yang berat di-atas perkara ini.

Terima kaseh.
Terima kaseh.

ini patut-lah Enche' Tan Tye Chek (Kulim-Bandar to Bharu): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise support this motion, but in supporting it, I should like to take this opportunity to make one or two observations on this matter.
Sir, our Finance Minister has said that it is the policy of the Alliance Government to make this country a property-owning democracy, and as a result, Sir, a lot of people had made purchases of fragmented parts of estates, but all these people who are now owning a lot of these fragmented parts of the estates have got no chance at all to participate in the Government replanting grants as well as the 41/2 cents Schedule IV Cess refunds.
It so happens that all these Government grants and Cess re funds go to swell the pockets of the rich fragmentators.

The fragmentators have got great finance and business acumen to reserve a portion of their estates, which they have fragmented, for themselves, and in this way they have been enjoying all the benefits derived from the 21 per cent eligibility under the previous scheme.

If this is to be continued, again they will enjoy the 15 per cent that is coming on.
lot of Sir, according to this amendment, for estates which have replanted more than 85 per cent, special consideration will be given.

Of course, Mr Speaker, Sir,, a the European estates are eligible under this special consideration, But, on the other hand, the Asian estates are not, because most of the Asian estates, I believe, came in very late in the matter of replanting their estates.
Apparently, it is only the very rich European owned estates that could afford to replant up to 85 per cent of their total acreages, while most of the Asian estates could not do so, except in the case of the balance portions of the fragmented estates owned by the themselves, who Asian fragmentators must have taken all the 21 per cent eligi bility and planted a bigger portion of the balance of the big estates that were bought up by them.

So, Mr Speaker, Sir.


I should like to take this opportunity to draw the attention of the Minister concerned to this matter, so that the 15 per cent grant that is coming on could be withheld pending investigation of what exactly is the acreage owned by the fragmentators, and also to freeze the Ah cents refunds.
As it is, Mr Speaker, Sir, I know that some of the fragmenta tors have sent in returns to the Rubber Industry Replanting Board claiming certain production—production which is known to them—on the land registered under their name.

As this process goes on, the fragmentators will not get the land surveyed quickly and give the titles 2681 18 DECEMBER 1963 2682 to the people who have bought these the procrastination lands.
Therefore, process goes on, and as long as the frag- mentators can delay giving out the titles, they will stand to benefit by it.

I hope the Minister concerned will look into this matter, so that the actual benefit that should come by for those people who have bought the fragmented parts of the estates by way of Government grants and the 4| cents Cess Refunds will be received by the actual owners of the land.

Sir, there is one other small matter which I would like to touch on.
In Penang a lot of people are planting up their lands but the high yielding clones are not easily available in Penang, and they have to get seeds and budwood from the Mainland into Penang.

In this respect a lot of people still do not know that they can get a certificate from the Chairman of the Replanting Board, or from the Smallholders' Department, for exemption from duty.
A lot of people still do not know the process, and while they take out clones from the Mainland into Penang, the Customs catch hold of such innocent people, and some of them have been charged in court and fined.

they are waiting Then, there is also a small matter which is of considerable concern to smallholders.

A lot of smallholders have complained that while their lands are being weeded and kept clear of for weeds, and fertilizers, many a time the fertilizers were not supplied to them until very late.
There are also cases when lands are being prepared for planting, the planting material was not available, and when it eventually comes it is beyond the planting season, as it is already too dry and thereby a lot of trouble has been caused.

Sir, I hope these matters will be improved so that the smallholders could carry on their replanting work much more easily.

Thank you, Sir.
Thank you, Sir.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Speaker, Sir, in reply to the points raised by the Honourable Member for Temerloh, I wish to point out that every encourage ment is given to smallholders to replant.

In fact, from every 15th September the register for replanting is open, and the closing date is on the 31st December, but a certain amount of discretion is being used by the local Replanting Officer to extend that date.
Before the year is out, or before this programme is open, Publicity Officers from the Re planting Board visit all the kampongs.

They have lectures all over the country— and we have 350 centres—to publicise the need for replanting.
When applicants are approved, each applicant is given clear instruction that by the 31st August of the year in which he replants all lallang must be eradi cated, all felled or trees must be poisoned, all undergrowths like blukar, bracken, and other growths have to be cut down to two feet high, and six feet wide rentises for planting, and holes are to be dug for the planting of either clonal seedlings or seedlings for budding.
It is unfortunate, as has been pointed out by the Honourable Member, that some of the trees although poisoned are not dead in time.

We have to follow certain regulations, and if a tree is not dead during the year of replanting, then it is not completely done.

However, if there are any specific cases where the Honourable Member feels that injustice has been done, any direct complaint to me would be most welcomed.
is The other suggestion by the Honour able Member for Temerloh that societies of smallholders should be given assistance.

This matter, no doubt, will be looked into, but I would like to remind the Honourable Member that smallholders under the law can only replant their existing land or additional land belonging to them.
The problem about societies creates a question of ownership on the question of replanting grants, and this matter, in fact, has been the Replanting Board— studied by Fund "B'' The Honourable Member for Kulim- Bandar Bahru, who is himself a planter, has touched on the very sore problem of fragmentation and fragmentators.
As long as a large estate which comes under the estate group has not been properly sub-divided, the new owners of the sub divided or fragmented estate cannot enjoy the benefits of Fund " B ".

They 2683 18 DECEMBER 1963 2684 must have a good title first, then they can enjoy Fund " B ".

There is a clause which says that they cannot enjoy the benefits of Fund " B" and at the same time also enjoy the benefits of Fund "A".
The Honourable Member has also pointed out that certain fragmentators make it a point not to sub-divide an estate in time and thus enjoy the 41/2 cent cess refund on the estate level.

This certainly is a matter for the persons who bought the sub-divided estate to have recourse to law to see that the fragmen- tator does sub-divide it.

If he does not sub-divide, that is a matter between the fragmentator and the people who join that scheme.
The other point is about the export of budwood and seedlings to Penang.

I think he has answered it himself.

If a person who is replanting will take a certificate from the Chairman, he will be exempted from duty—I think that is correct.

He has raised a rather important point in that certain smallholders do not receive their fertilizers and planting material in time.

If the Honourable Member would specific instances, I shall most certainly investi gate the problem.

give me Question put, and agreed to.


Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.

House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

Bill considered in Committee.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Clause, 1 to 6 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment: read the third time and passed.

MOTION THE DEVELOPMENT (SUPPLEMENTARY) (No.


3) ESTIMATES, 1963 Order read for resumption of conside ration of the Development (Supplemen tary) (No.

3) Estimates in a Committee of the whole House (11th December, 1963).

House immediately resolved itself into Committee.

The Development (Supplementary) (No.

3) Estimates, 1963, considered in Committee.

(Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) Head 114— Mr Chairman: I propose that the expenditure shown under Head 114 (Supplementary) of the Development (No.
3) Estimates, 1963. be approved.

The Minister of Defence (Tun Hap Abdul Razak): Mr Chairman.

Sir, I beg to move that the expenditure amounting to $45,716,000 under Head 114 be approved.
As I said when moving the Supplementary adoption these of the whole Development Estimates, the Third amount was provided Supplementary Estimates of Ordinary Expenditure, 1963, and the opportunity is now taken to transfer this item to Development Estimates as it is consi dered more appropriate that the amount should come under Ordinary Develop ment Estimates.

I have, therefore, no further explanation to add.

in Question put, and agreed to.


The sum of $45,716,000 for Head 114 agreed to stand part of the Development (Supplementary) (No.

3) Estimates, 1963.

Head 118— The Minister of Internal Security (Dato' Dr Ismail): Mr Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the expenditure of $476,566 under Head 118 be approved.
This amount shown under subhead 70 was advanced from the Contingencies Reserve in order to meet the cost of acquisition of pieces of land to be used as sites for buildings for the Federal Reserve Unit stationed in Singapore.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $476,566 for Head 118 agreed to stand part of the Development (Supplementary) (No.

3) Estimates, 1963.
3) Estimates, 1963.

2685 18 DECEMBER 1963 2686 Heads 120 and 154— Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permission, I will deal with Heads 120 and 154 together.

A token vote of only $10 is asked for in respect of Head 120, subhead 7, item (ix) for the purpose of constructing a warehouse-cum-office at Kuah on Pulau Langkawi.

As Honourable Member are aware, a new jetty has been built on Pulau Langkawi and it is necessary to put up a Customs warehouse and office adjacent to the new jetty.
It has been possible the amount already appropriated under Head 120, subhead 7, item (vi) of the 1963 Development Estimates.

Hence only a token vote is required.

to quote savings from With regard to the next Head of Expenditure, Head 154, a sum of $3,885,714 is required in respect of Sub head 1 to provide for the continuation of projects previously financed from the Colonial Development and Welfare Grants to Sabah and Sarawak.
Subhead 2, which requires $400,000, is provided for the extension of the runway of the airport at Jesselton, Sabah.

This repre sents the first step in the improvement of the Jesselton airport which it is intended should eventually be able to cater for jet flights.

It will be noted that these are new subheads of expenditure.
But as against this expenditure, we shall be receiving from the British Government a corresponding instalment of £500,000 of grants for the development of the Borneo territories as promised in the Malaysia Agreement.

Question put, and agreed to.

A token sum of $10 for Head 120 and the sum of $4,285,714 for Head 154 agreed to stand part of the Development (Supplementary) (No.

3) Estimates, 1963.
3) Estimates, 1963.

Head 122— The Minister of Education (Tuan Haji Abdul Hamid Khan bin Haji Sakhawat Ali Khan): Tuan Pengerusi, saya me- mohon memajukan Belanjawan angga- ran (Tambahan) (No.

3), Pembangunan Malaysia tahun 1963 untok Kementerian Pelajaran saperti yang di-tunjokkan di- ini tahun ini, Dewan bawah kepala 122 di-bawah kertas titah 45 tahun 1963 di-luluskan.
Sa-bagai- mana Ahli2 Dewan ini telah ma'alum peruntokan wang yang di-benarkan untok Kementerian Pelajaran bagi ranchangan lima tahun yang kedua, tahun 1961-1965 ia-lah 260 juta ringgit.

Daripada jumlah ini sa-banyak 70.4 juta ringgit telah di-belanjakan sa-hingga penghujong tahun 1962 ia-itu $27.3 juta dalam tahun 1961 dan $43.1 juta dalam tahun 1962.

Ahli2 Yang Berhormat mungkin teringat bahawa dalam bulan August telah meluluskan peruntokan tambahan sa- banyak $13,231,368 untok Kementerian Pelajaran.
Pada masa mengemukakan tambahan peruntokan ini, saya telah menyatakan bahawa jumlah ini ada-lah di-kehendaki satu, untok menyudahkan project2 tahun 1962 di-teruskan kapada tahun 1963 sa-banyak $5,536,168.

Dan yang kedua, untok membena Sekolah2 Rendah dan Menengah baharu yang tidak dapat di-laksanakan dalam tempoh itu kerana kekurangan wang sa-banyak $7,695,200.
Dengan kelulusan tambahan peruntokan sa-banyak $13,231,368 ini, jumlah peruntokan ini ia-lah $53.2 juta, jumlah sekarang telah di-dapati tidak menchukupi untok melaksanakan project2 Kementerian ini.

Wang tambahan sa-banyak $4,732,800 ada-lah di-kehendaki lebeh daripada yang telah di-luluskan kapada Kementerian ini.
Jumlah ini di-kehendaki untok meng- hadapi perbelanjaan yang tidak dapat di-elakkan, oleh sebab pekerjaan me nyudahkan project2 itu telah bergerak lebeh chepat daripada yang di-jangka- kan. Ada-lah kerja untok mengumpul- kan semua keterangan2 yang lanjut telah memakan masa yang panjang dan apa- bila semua-nya telah sedia, maka di- dapati bahawa peruntokan itu termasok- tambahan peruntokan sa-banyak lah $13,231,368 telah tidak menchukupi.
Maka tambahan peruntokan sa-banyak $4,732,800 ada-lah di-kehendaki di- bawah kepala kechil yang berikut: Kepala kechil (1) ranchangan Sekolah Rendah $1,148,800; kepala kechil (2) ranchangan Sekolah2 Pelajaran Lanjutan $1,498,000; kepala kechil (3) ranchangan Sekolah2 Menengah $1,254,000; kepala kechil (8) Latehan Guru2 $326,000; kepala kechil (12) Asrama $506,000, jumlah-nya $4,732,800.
ini 2687 18 DECEMBER 1963 2688 Tuan Pengerusi, saya memohon me- majukan ia-itu perbelanjaan yang ber- jumlah 54,732,800 yang di-tunjokkan di-bawah kepala 122 itu di-luluskan.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of 54,732,800 for Head 122 agreed to stand part of the Development (Supplementary) (No.

3) Estimates, 1963.

Mr Chairman: Order, order!

The time is now 6.30 p.m. House resumes.

House resumed.

Mr (Deputy) Speaker: The Committee of the whole House considering the Development (Supplementary) (No.
3) Estimates, 1963 has progressed up to Head 122.

The House is adiourned till 10 a.m. tomorrow.

House adjourned at 6.30 p.m.