Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698754201019.pdf (Malaysia)
Vohune III No.

11 Tuesday 20th June, 1961 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) OFFICIAL REPORT ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS [Col. 10671 Second Schedule-- CONTENTS BILLS: The Remuneration of Judges Bill [Col. 10711 The Licensed Land Surveyon (Amendment) Bill !Col.
10801 The Treasury Bills (London) (Repeal) Bill [Col. 10821 The Town Boards (Amendment) Bill [Col. 10831 The Supplemeutary Supply Bill [Col. 10841 (Committee of Supply) First Schedule- Heads 2, 4 and 6 [Col. 10891 Head 7 [Col. 18891 Head 21 [Col. 10961 Heads 22 and 23 [Col. 10971 Head 28 [Col. 10981 Head 29 !Col.

11011 Heads 32, 34 and 38 (Col. 11031 Head 39 [Col. 11061 Head 46 [Col. 11061 Head 58 [Col. 11061 Headl 69 [Col. 11091 Head 75 [Col. 11091 Head 77 ICol.

11101 Head S. 1 !Col.


11111 Head S. 6 [Col. 11121 Head S. 7 !Col.

11121 Head S. 8 [Col. 11141 Head S. 15 !Col.

11141 Head S. 17 !Col.
11151 Head S. 19 [Col. 11161 Head S. 29 [Col. 11171 Heads S. 31, S. 37, S. 39 and S. 40 [Col. 11171 Head S. 42 [Col. 11171 Heads S. 43 and S. 45 [Col. 11211 Head S. 47 [Col. 11211 Head S. 50 [Col. 11211 Heads S. 55 and S. 59 [Col. 11281 Heads S. 64 and S. 65 [Col. 11291 Head S. 66 [Col. 11301 Motions: Employees Provident Fund-Alleged Mal­ administration [Col. 11331 Dl·CHETAK DI·JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENO CHONG, PEMANGKU PENCHETAIC KERAJAAN PERSEKUTUAN TANAH MELAYU 1962 Harga: $1 FEDERATION OF MALAY A DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report Third Session of the First Dewan Ra'ayat Tuesday, 20th June, 1961 The House met at Hal.f-past-Ten o'clock a.m.
PRESENT: The Honourable Mr. Speaker, S.P.M.J., DATO' HAJJ MOHAMED NOAH BIN OMAR, D.P.M.B., P.I.S., J.P. and Minister the Prime Minister Y.T.M.

TuNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PurnA AL·HAJ, K.O.M.

(Kuala Kedah).

of External Affairs, the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK of Rural Development, Minister BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N.

(Pekan).

of Defence and the Minister Interior, RAHMAN, P.M.N.

(Johor Timor).
(Johor Timor).

of Internal Security and Minister DATO' DR. IsMArL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL of the of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka the Minister Tengah).

the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' v. T. SAMBANTHA N, P.M.N.

(Sungai Siput).

the Minister (Pontian Utara).

of Transport, DATO' SARDON BIN HAJJ JUBIR the Minister DATO' ONG of Health and Social Welfare, YOKE LIN, P.M.N.

(Ulu Selangor).
(Ulu Selangor).

the Minister of Commerce and Industry, ENcHE ' MOHAMED KHm BIN JoHARI (Kedah Tengah).

the Minister of Education, ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB (Kuantan).

the Assistant Minister of Information and Broadcasting, TUAN SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALDAR, i.M.N.

(Johor Tenggara).

the Assistant Minister of Education, ENCHE' ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJ1 SAKHAWAT Au KHAN, J.M.N., Padang).
the Assistant Minister of Rural Development, TUAN HAJI J.P. (Batang ABDUL KHALID BIN AwANG OSMAN (Kota Star Utara).

the Assistant Minister of Labour, ENCHE' V. MANICKA· VASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K.

(Klang).

the Assistant Minister ISMAIL BIN MOHAMED YusoF (Jerai).

of the Interior, ENCHE' MOHAMED 1063 20 JUNE 1961 1064 The Honourable ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N.

(Melaka Utara).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN (Krian Laut).

ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN OSMAN (Sungai Patani).


TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI ABDUL RAOF (Kuala Kangsar).

TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD.

SALLEH, A.M.N., P.I.s.

(Segamat Utara).

Utara).

TUAN HAJJ AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kot.a Bharu Hilir).

ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N.

(Muar Utara).

ENCHE' AHMAD BOESTAMAM (Setapak).

TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID (Seberang ENCHE' AHMAD BIN HAJI YusoF, P.J.K.

(Krian Darat).

TUAN HAJI AzAHARI BIN HAJI IBRAHIM (Kubang Pasu Barat).

ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).


DR. BURHANUDDIN BIN MOHD.

NOOR (Besut).

ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).

ENCHE' CHAN SWEE Ho (Ulu Kinta).

ENCHE' CHAN y OON ONN (Kampar).

ENCHE' CmN SEE YIN (Seremban ENCHE' v. DAVID (Bungsar).

DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N.

(Jitra-Padang Timor).

Terap).

ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT (Penang Utara).

ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N.

(Kapar).

ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD.

YUNUS, A.M.N.

(Kulim Utara).

ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, ENCHE' HARUN BIN.


PiL us (Trengganu TUAN HAJI HASAN ADLI BIN HAJI ARSHAD (Kuala Trengganu A.M.N.

(Baling).

Tengah).

Utara).

TuAN HAJI HASSAN BIN HAJI AHMAD (Tumpat).

ENCHE' HASSAN BIN MANSOR (Melaka Selatan).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN To' MUDA HASSAN (Raub).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN TuAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN BIN MOHD.

NOORDIN, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Parit).

HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu .. Hulu).

Tengah).

ENCHE' IBRAmM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang ENCHE' ISMAIL IDN IDRIS (Penang Selatan).
ENCHE' K. KARAM SINGH (Damansara).

CHE' KHADUAH BINTI MOHD.

SIDEK (Dungun) ENCHE' LEE SAN CHOON (Kluang Utara).

ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N.

(Sepang).

ENcHE' LIM Joo KoNG (Alor Star ).

DR. LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan).

ENCHE' LIU YOONG PENG (Rawang).

ENCHE' T. MAmMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson).

Malim).

• 1065 20 JUNE 1961 1066 The Honourable ENCHE' MOHAMED BIN UJANG (Jelebu-Jempol).

ENCHE' MOHAMED ABBAS BIN AHMAD (Hilir Perak).


ENCHE' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA (Pasir Puteh).

ENCHE' MOHAMED DAHARI BIN HAJI MOHD.

ALI (Kuala Selangor).

ENCHE' MOHAMED NOR BIN MOHD.

DAHAN (Ulu Perak).

DATO' MOHAMED HANIFAH BIN HAJI ABDUL GHANI, P.J.K.

(Pasir Mas Hulu).

ENCHE' MOHAMED SULONG BIN MOHD.

ALI, J.M.N.

(Lipis).

YuSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N.

(Temerloh); ENCHE' MOHAMED TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan).

ENCHE' NG ANN TECK (Batu).

ENCHE' OrHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Tanah Merah).


ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Perlis Utara).

TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD.

SAID (Rembau-Tampin).

ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB (Muar Pantai).

ENCHE' s. P. SEENIVASAGAM (Menglembu).

TUAN SYED BSA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S.

(Batu Pahat Dalam).

TUAN SYED HASHIM BIN SYED AJAM, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Sabak Bernam).

ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan).

ENCHE' TAN PHOCK KIN (Tan jong).


ENCHE' TAN TYE CHEK (Kulim-Bandar TENGKU BESAR lNDERA RAJA IBNI AL-MARHUM SULTAN Bahm).

IBRAHIM, D.K., P.M.N.

(Ulu Kelantan).

DATO' TEOH CHZE CHONG, D.P.M.J., J.P. (Segamat Selatan).

ENCHE' Too JooN HING (Telok Anson).

ENCHE' v. VEERAPPEN (Seberang Selatan).

w AN MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ALI (Kelantan Hilir).

WAN SuLAIMAN BIN WAN TAM, P.J.K.

(Kota Star Selatan).

WAN YAHY A BIN HAJI WAN MOHAMED (Kemaman).

ENCHE' YAHYA BIN HAJI AHMAD (Bagan Datoh).


ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Broas).

PuAN HAJJAH ZAIN BINTI SULAIMAN, J.M.N., P.I.S.

(Pontian Sela tan).

TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD.

TAIB (Langat).

ENCHE' ZULKIFLEE BIN MUHAMMAD (Bachok).

ABSENT: The Honourable DATO' SULEIMAN BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N.

(Minister without Portfolio) (Muar Selatan) (on leave).

and Co-operatives, ENCHE' the Minister of Agriculture ABDUL Aziz BIN ISHAK (Kuala Langat).
the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah).

1067 20 JUNE 1961 1068 The Honourable ENCHE' CHEAH THEAM SWEE, Assistant Minister (Bukit Bin tang).

ENCHE' AHMAD BIN MOHAMED SHAH, S.M.J.

(Johore Bahru Barat).

ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N.

(Kluang Selatan).

ENCHE' KANG KOCK SENG (Batu Pahat).

ENCHE' KHONG KoK YAT (Batu Gajah).

ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat).

NIK MAN BIN NIK MOHAMED (Pasir Mas Hilir).

DATO' ONN BIN JA'AFAR, D.K., D.P.M.1.

(Kuala Trengga nu Sela tan).


ENCHE' QuEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Barat).

ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (lpoh).

ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN ALI, P.J.K.

(Larut Utara).

ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka).

ENCHE' YONG Woo MING (Sitiawan).

The Honourable the Minister of Justice, TtJN LEONG YEW KOH, S.M.N.

IN ATTENDANCE: PRAYERS (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) Jawatan-Kuasa sebab musabab bagaimana kerugian itu berlaku di-kilang untok menyiasat tersebut.
akan ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Kilang Getah di-Grisek Toan Haji Abdul Khalid bin Awang Osman: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, biasa­ nya tidak, sebab RIDA telah dapat mengambil langkah untok membaiki­ nya.

1.Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad (Muar Utara) bertanya kapada Timbalan Per­ dana Menteri ada-kah beliau menge­ tahui ia-itu kilang semenjak di-dirikan kerugian, dan jika ya, terangkan kah2 yang di-ambil bagi mengelakkan kerugian sa-lanjut-nya Kerajaan berchadang kilang itu.
telah menanggong getah di-Grisek dan ada-kah hendak menutup lang­ Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kira-nya kilang itu sa-makin baik, ada-kah Kerajaan ber­ chadang hendak Illenyerahkan kapada pendudok2 tempatan itu bagi mentad­ birkan-nya.

Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid bin Awang Osman: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, jawab­ nya ya.
Ranchangan Kemajuan Tanah di-.Johor The Assistant Minister of Rural Development (Toan Haji Abdul Khalid bin Awang Osman): Tuan Yang di­ Pertua, RIDA telah mengambil yang berpatutan untok membaiki kilang getah di-Grisek itu dan oleh sebab itu tidak ada chadangan untok menutup kilang itu.
langkah 3.Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad benanya kapada Timbalan Perdana berapa-kah bilangan ranchangan2 Ke­ majuan Tanah yang di�laksanakan di-negeri Johor dalam tahun 1960 dan 1961 menurut ranchangan yang ber­ ikut: Menteri .Jawatan-Kuasa menyiasat Keruaian KUang Getah di-Grisek (a) Lembaga Keillajuan Tanah n .

Persekutua (b) Ranchangan Penempatan Bera­ .2.

Enche' Ahmad bin An.had bertanya pada Timbalan Perdana Menteri ada­ kah beliau bersedia melantek sa-buah mai2 .

gir.
gir.

(c) Ranchangan P�nempatan Ping­ 20 JUNE 1961 1070 Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid bill Awang Osman: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ran­ changan2 yang di-bawah ranchangan Kemajuan Tanah Persekutuan bagi tahun 1960 sa-banyak 7 ranchangan; dalam tahun 1961 sa-banyak 4 ran­ changan; bagi ranchangan berkumpul beramai2 dalam tahun 1960, 2 ran­ changan dan 196 1, 6 ranchangan.

Di-bawah ranchangan Fringe Aliena­ tion ia-itu ranchangan pinggir tahun 1960, 1 1 dan tahun 1961, 12.
Uchapan Perdana Menteri, Bulan Bahasa Kebangsaan Jabatan2 Pusat 4.Enche' Ahmad Boestamam (Setapak) bertanya kapada Perdana Menteri, apabila beruchap, antara lain, kapada wakiP Negeri, Kementerian2, Kerajaan dan Jawatan-Kuasa Bulan Bahasa Kebangsaan di-Dewan Tunku Abdul Rahman pada 31 hari­ bulan May, 196 1 , ia-itu Kerajaan Persekutuan hingga tahun 1967 menjadikan bahasa Melayu sa-bagai bahasa rasmi negeri ini, ada-kah yang di-maksudkan-nya bahasa Melayu akan menggantikan bahasa lnggeris sa-bagai bahasa rasmi negeri ini.
tidak akan menanti sa­ gudang2 dan kedai:1 untok · memakai nama-nya dalam bahasa Melayu, dan dapat-lah saya menyebutkan bahawa banyak kedai2 itu telah memakai bahasa kebangsaan dan saya harap semua akan mengguna­ lama-kelamaan kan bahasa Melayu itu.
Papan Kenyataan-Bahasa Kebangsaan 6.Enche' Ahmad Boestamam bertanya kapada Perdana Menteri apa-kah sebab-nya maka papan tanda beberapa buah pejabat Kerajaan dan kotak fail-nya Bahasa Kebangsaan dan apa-kah lang­ kah yang akan di-jalankan untok membetulkan keadaan demikian.
pun maseh tidak menggunakan The Prime Minister: Tuan Yang di­ semua pejabat2 Pertua, sa-takat yang saya tahu boleh-lah di-katakan Kerajaan telah pun menukarkan papan tanda-nya dengan Bahasa Kebangsaan dan satu surat keliling telah pun di-hantarkan sekarang ini saya akan pereksa mana2 pejabat yang tidak menurut perentah surat keliling ka-pejabat2 Kerajaan, jadi itu.

The Prime Minister: Tuan Yang di­ rasmi.


Tetapi bahawa bahasa · Melayu Pertua, dalam Rang Undang2 Perlem­ bagaan kita Fasal 152 telah pun di-tentukan akan di-jadikan bahasa untok menchapaikan jaan telah pun menyediakan sa-tapak demi sa-tapak dan sa-langkah demi sa-langkah bahasa Melayu akan di-gunakan sa­ bagai bahasa kebangsaan dengan sa­ penoh-nya.
sampai akhir tahun 1967 tujuan itu Kera­ Gudang2 Perniagaan menggunakan Bahasa Kebangsaan S. Enche' Ahmad Boestamam bertanya kapada Perdana Menteri apa-kah langkah-nya hendak jalankan untok menjamin ia-itu semua gudang2 perniagaan mengguna­ kan Bahasa Kebangsaan di-dalam papan tanda mereka.

yang Kerajaan berchadang Enche' Ahmad Boestamam: Tuan ber­ Yang di-Pertua, bagaimana-kah kenaan dengan pada hari ini ada potongan2 i'lan dalam surat khabar berkehendakkan sebutkan mesti credit in English.
Bagaimana-kah sikap pemerentah dalam soal ini bahawa jawatan kerani2 itu tidak memerlukan credit in English.

jawatan kerani di­ Kerajaan Tuan Yang di­ The Prime Minister: Pertua, itu ada-lah peraturan sahaja dan bahasa itu ada-lah di­ gunakan dalam masa sa-saorang itu di-dalam Sekolah.

Jadi itu-lah sebab­ nya di-sebut lulus School Certificate.
Sa-umpama di-negeri pun kebanyakan menggunakan bahasa Melayu di-sana, dak mengambil sa-saorang itu ada-lah di-kehendaki Certificate sa-bagai ukoran sa-saorang itu di-atas lama-nya mereka itu belajar dalam sekolah.
tetapi manakala hen­ Kedah, sunggoh lulus School bekerja The Prime Minister: Pertua, segala perchubaan telah di-ambil oleh saya sendiri untok mendapatkan persetujuan daripada dan langkah • Enche' Ahmad Boestamam: Ada-kah Kerajaan bermaksud pada masa yang akan datang di-tiadakan credit in English itu.

Tuan Yang di­ J 1071 20 JUNE 1961 1072 The Prime Minister: Tuan Yang di­ Pertua, itu saya tidak-lah dapat menjawab sekarang ini.

BILLS TIIE REMUNERATION OF JUDGES BILL Second Reading I !
t The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled "an Act to amend and consolidate the ding for the remuneration of the Judges of the Supreme Court" be read a second time.
law provi­ As stated in the Explanatory State­ for small and allowances ment, the Bill provides in the salaries increases payable to the Judges of Appeal and the Puisne Judges of the Supreme Court, and opportunity has also been taken to include in the Schedule to the payable to and the Bill the allowances privileges enjoyed to their salaries.
by them in addition Since my Honourable colleague, the will be speaking Minister of Justice, the reasons on this motion, explaining and the need for the Bill in greater detail, I do not wish to take any more of the time of this House motion.

on this Sir, I beg to move.

r The Minister of Internal Security and Minister of the Interior (Dato' Dr. Ismail): Sir, I beg to second the motion.
\.- The Minister of Justice (Tun Leong Yew Koh): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the motion which my Honour­ able friend the Minister of Finance has moved.

The Explanatory Statement to this Bill sets out briefly what we are asking this House to approve.

Following ordinary custom, it does not set out the reasoning behind the Bill, and these I shall try to explain.

It is one of the fundamental priA­ ciples of justice administer it must be absolutely impartial.
They that the Judges who must decide every case without fear or they must give on its absolute merits favour.

If necessary, judgment against the Government where they are satisfied that the Government has erred and that a thereby suffered injury, citizen has whether material or spiritual.

We in Malaya today have just such a judiciary.

We have the utmost con­ fidence in its fairness, and we always of have had.
I believe that this House would wish to join me to pay tribute to the wisdom and integrity of our Judges, both present and past.

They have upheld that great tradition which grew in England under the English Common Law, and which that small little island, spread from to local circumstances adapting itself and requirements until today some 900 million people throughout the world are content to be governed under its firm and fair principles.
all sections worrying of impartiality to live, but that they should I have mentioned the fundamental and fairness.

principle In order that our Judges may be impartial and fair, it is necessary that they should not only have the bare requisites be in a position to live comfortably.
A judge who is constantly about meeting the grocers bill, about giving his children the same or better education as he himself has had, about making provision for such a judge, no matter how honest, will inevitably extreme case, an underpaid judge might be tempted to indulge in corrupt practices.

May I hasten to say here and now that I have never heard it said or even hinted that this has happened in our superior courts in Malaya, but it has most certainly happened elsewhere.

suffer distraction.
suffer distraction.

his old age­ In an The question then, is "what is an drawn from the adequate and even generous (although not over-generous) remuneration for a judge?"

In the days of our colonial past, our judges were Colonial Legal Service-an honourable service to which, again, I would pay tribute.

the Bench after long years in the service was not by any means the culmination of a career-it was by no means un­ common for a Judge in, say, Malaya.
Elevation to 1073 20 JUNE 1961 1074 Today, this no longer applies elsewhere as Chief to be transferred Justice.

except to the remaining expatriate Judges, and even to them avenues for promotion grow less with more and more dependent territories And so there is nations.

independent a case.

for that reason alone, to con· sider increasing In this Bill, we are increasing salaries month, and Judges of Appeal by $150 a month.

of Puisne Judges emoluments.


the basic all judicial becoming by $130 a This is only a modest increase.

However, we would wish to increase in other ways.

In the their perquisites past, they have been given a syce allowance on a purely administrative basis of $60 a month: if they paid their syces only that amount, I fancy in trouble they would find themselves with my Honourable friend the Minister of Labour!

And so they are out of pocket on that account.

Like­ wise.
Like­ wise.

in the past, no provision has been made to enable them to entertain on a modest scale, and we now propose that they should receive the sum of $250 a month each.

at all and understanding.

than the occasional or other function where barristers and members the Judges is a which is founded on That is the first reason.
The second reason is that there exists a very special relationship between and the legal profession-it relationship mutual respect There is nothing better to foster this understanding dinner party the judges, the of the public meet, as it were, on equal ground, where they are not forced (if I may quote Sir Harold William) laugh at the weakest of jokes emanating from under the wig.
I am sure that barristers agree that many a case has been settled without further litigation because members of the bar respect each other and respect the judge.

Social inter· course is a very human way of promoting this respect trust.

All in all, I do not see that $250 a month is much for the nation to pay to each judge to ensure that he is not, as hitherto, out-of-pocket in exercising semi-official in this House will and mutual duties.
to i There may be Honourable Members , in Penang, for example, they are often If a should find to entertain.

on visiting warships.

for one reason or another- to this difficult question, Honourable Members may ask how firstly, judges are invariably hospitality I would offer two cogent reasons : offered it is that a judge, who is perched on a sort of judicial pinnacle, it necessary who wonder whether the new remune­ ration proposed is the correct one; whether it is not too high or too low.
The Cabinet gave very careful con­ sideration and we concluded that, pending an examination of the whole salary structure of government servants generally which is now being under­ taken by a special Committee of the Cabinet with the of the the proposed rates were at Treasury, I should like to least an make it clear that the rates proposed today are not_ necessarily word-it is open to Parliament time to increase, judges' remuneration.
cards that the Government itself may make such a proposal later when, as latter-day have sa�d I the -salar , Members ffi.

f d o cers pa1 rom pu 1c n s as been reviewed.


the Chief Justice's changed in the meantime, at His Lordship'� ':rg�nt and personal request: of office set out iQ the the perqms1tes Schedule give legislative effect, as to required under the Constitution, the last at any the but not decrease, It is quite on the ' stru ct ure fu d h It will be noted that entertained judge refuses to accept hospitality which he is offered as a genuine token of respect for his office, what will people think?
They will regard him as "stuffy".

If he gains a reputation for accepting hospitality returning it sooner or later, he will be regarded as a parsimonious Scrooge.

l think Honourable will readily agree that either reputation would be undesirable accrue to the reputation of the Bench.

Ordinary people like to have their troubles heard before the court of a judge who is wise, but who is also human and is seen to be human both on and off the Bench.

improvement.
improvement.

salarremains un­ assistance and would not without bl l I 1075 20 JUNE 1961 1076 .- what the Chief Justice at present receives under administrative ments.

arrange­ I therefore ask the House to approve but the judges are this Bill.
I know the increases are one way or likely to be criticised another; I also know that what we offer a judge is nothing compared to what he would earn in successful private practice; men, and are glad to serve honourable the Crown and the Public: the fact their remu­ that we have considered and in advance of neration in isolation other servants of the Crown is an earnest that we have not forgotten them, and that we do appreciate services they have so signally in the past and will continue to render in the future.
(Applause).

rendered the ,,--!

I raise the salary of the Chief Justice, think it should be done.

Since, the salary of the other Judges have been raised by $130 and $150 p.m. respec­ tively, we cannot see why the salary of the Chief Justice has not been raised.
He is performing the most vital functions in the administration justice in our country, and it would have been fitting, when the other Judges are given increases $150 p.m., that the Chief Justice himself should slightly and $150 per month are very small sums, and we hope this matter will be given the deration of the Honourable Minister.

have got a similar or After all $130 urgent and personal consi­ greater increase.
of $130 and of Enche' K. Karam Singh (Damansara): Mr. Speaker, Sir, although the Honour­ able Minister hastened to explain himself when he said that underpaid · f Judges may become corrupt, I would say that that remark was better left because I am sure that unmentioned, Judges-even if they are underpaid­ .

having been chosen from the best in our country, I think not practitioners even a doubt of their integrity cross our minds.
should the salary of the Another point I do not know whether made by the Honour- able Minister was that although the of other Judges and Judges of salaries by $ 1 30 Appeal have been increased and $150 respectively, Chief Justice has not been increased "at the urgent and personal request of His Lordship".

that statement is merely being used to for the cover up the lack of increment I think it is Chief Justice-however, for any man to not at all reasonable So I object to his salary being raised.
have my own doubts as to that state­ ment that His Lordship the Chief Justice himself urgently and personally requested to increase it is not a question of the present holder of the post of Chief Justice The personally question that we should consider 1s the question of the salary for that post, and to if it is considered his salary.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Minister not that it is necessary to an in�ease objecting : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Minister went on to say that we must maintain the status of our Judges, that in our public and national life Judges must have their due respected But, Sir, we find that in practice so far that due respect has not been to our Judges; I do not forthcoming say intentionally-probably the matter has arisen only recently.

it is because place.


Mr. Speaker: How is that relevant to the Bill before the House?

Enche' K. Karam Singh: Regarding the status of the Judges, Sir.

Mr. Speaker: We are now concerned with the salary-that with the status of the Judges.

You ought to know better.

has nothing to do Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr. Spea­ ker, Sir, if you so wish I won't touch on that.

Mr. Speaker: Better not !

Enche' K. Karam Singh: That is all I have to say.


(Meng­ Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam lembu): Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Bill was before us only yesterday and we were able to read it only last night.

I have not been able to make any private inquiries of the Chief Justice has not been increased by the Minister of Justice that it was at his personal and urgent request.

Now, I have no doubt that he must in this Bill.


We are informed as to why the salary 1077 20 JUNE 1961 1078 in I think salary should be have made such an urgent and personal but what we are interested request, this House is, what were the reasons which led him to make such an urgent and personal request that his own salary should not be increased?

that there must be much more to his urgent and personal request than the Honourable Minister of Justice has thought fit to reveal to this House.
Would the Honourable Minister, for example, be prepared to say to this House, what was the amount by which it was proposed that the Honourable the Chief Justice's increased?

I wonder whether he would tell the House what was the amount offered to the Honourable the Chief Justice by way of increase.

odd request, who preceded me stated-an odd request that a man should make an urgent and personal request that his salary should not be increased.

There must be very strong reasons, and we are entitled reasons.
It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that an injustice Chief Justice.

their salaries increased I consider to be a very small increase, I feel that a very substantial should have been made in the salary of the Chief Justice have said that I have no information on this matter, I am presuming that the Honourable the Chief Justice must have rejected paltry increase to his salary-an insult to his dignity.
on the If other Judges have had as the Honourable speaker has been perpetrated what may have been a by $ 1 30, which to know those and, although as I increase It is an to consider his status We feel, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that due has not been and proper consideration given to the status of the Chief Justice in this country, and I would urge upon those concerned and, without any delay, to arrive at a proper figure for his salary, which would enable him to maintain the dignity and prestige of him, and by that it does not mean that at this time he is not maintaining his dignity-he does.
But we should not take things for granted.

give each man his due.

which one expects We ·should Encbe' Wan Mustapba bin Haji Ali (Kelutan Hilir): Mr. Speaker, Sir, The incre­ I think it is quite a good though this Bill was submitted only yesterday, Bill.

I would say that it is justified because it concerns a small increase, which is more than justified.
ment given to the Judges of Appeal and Puisne Judges is justified because, as the Honourable Minister concerned has stated just now, these Judges have to keep up the status of their good offices.

In fact, I think their appointments of great importance, need for me to elaborate, behalf of my colleagues the Bench, to say that we support this Bill.
and there is no but I rise, on on this side of are allowance Sir, as regards the entertainment allowance too, we have no criticisms, as the entertainment given to the Judges are warranted, because the Judges, in spite of the fact that they are expected to be sober, mix with society, and it is quite often that the legal profession do invite them to parties-and to reciprocate to these various persons.
the Judges have, by giving entertainment I Sir, I have nothing more to add • except to say that this Bill is strongly supported by myself and my colleagues !

of the P.M.1.P.
of the P.M.1.P.

of course, Encbe' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, that the Govern­ What happened was that the and terms and conditions Sir, the Honourable Member for Damansara alleged ment was not telling the truth, when my Honourable friend and colleague· J the Minister of Justice informed the· House that no increase was given to· the Chief Justice at his own specific request.
Cabinet has set up a Committee which is going into the whole question of of salaries service in the Public Service, and this Committee has not work; hence it was felt that the question of the remuneration of Judges could only be decided on an interim basis.

In which is spite of that, this Committee, pro­ in fact under my chairmanship, posed certain salary increases Judges of which we have already heard and also an increase of salary for the Chief Justice.
These increases were approved by the Cabinet and in fact the Bill had already gone for printing yet completed its for the lj ' 1079 20 JUNE 1961 1080 approached Chief Justice when the Prime Minister and asked to be allowed not to accept the increase.

As a result of this, a second Bill was printed in a hurry.

These are the facts.


the Schedule;_ Salary, We have been of this salary went on to specu· I should say, he is not the man to speak of someone Sir, Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr. Spea­ ker, Sir, I would like to touch on item l. Chief Justice, Pensionable $30,840 in the Schedule.

informed that an increase was refused, and the Honourable the Minister of Finance late as to the reasons for his refusal although, most qualified mind.
However, Mr. Speaker, else's I would say that the whole truth was not told by the Government, when it was said that the Chief Justice per· sonally requested that an increment need not be given to him.
I would like to ask the Government and the Minister of Finance to clarify to this House whether or not the proposed increase of the Chief Justice was only $30 a month and that since it will be an insult to accept such a sum that it was not accepted by the Chief Justice, cause even clerks can get that amount of increase.

in this House from the Honourable the Minister of Finance.

be­ I just want an explanation Mr. Speaker: (To Enche' Tan Siew Sin) Do you want to say anything?

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: No, Sir.


Question put, and agreed to.

Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

.

Bill reported without amendment: read the third time and passed.

The Honourable Member for Daman­ I do not, of course, after all, one can to one's own sara has suggested that the Government I do not blame is not telling the truth.

him, because he is probably judging us by the standards to which he himself is used, and we can only hope that as he grows older his standards will improve.
However, we do not blame him at all because, only behave according circumstances.

mean to say that there should be no increase Justice.

will await the overall review of Civil Service salaries believe that the Chief Justice declined to accept this increase.

because he felt that he was so far the highest paid officer of the Crown and also in like view of the fact that something $30,000 is spent on the furnishings of I his house.
I do not say, of course, that I this is too little or too much, but I t at all in the salary of the Chief As I have said that as a whole.

But I already, firstly, that in view of these considera- believe tions he felt that it would be desirable to await the overall review before a firm decision was made on his own salary.
I I welcome the general expressions of Government has support which the received on this question, and I have no doubt, as my Honourable friend and colleague the Minister Justice has said, that this is in recog­ nition of the good work which has been done by the Bench in the past and which will no doubt be continued in the future.

(Applause).

of THE LICENSED LAND SURVEYORS(AMENDMENT) BILL Second Readine Question put, and agreed to.
Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to the Committee of the whole House.

House immediately resolved itself .. �ii� �:::: :· �::�� •.

I (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) The Assistant Minister of Rural (Tuan Baji Abdul Khalid Development bin Awang Osman): Sir, I beg to move that a Bill to amend the Licensed Surveyors second time.

Ordinance, 1958. be read a The Licensed Land Surveyors Ordin- Ctauses J to 5 inclusive ordered to ance, 1958, provides ··for a Land stand part of the Bill.
Surveyors Board consisting of two 1081 20 JUNE 1961 1082 at any land surve­ for the Govern­ the Surve­ and a Chief Surveyor­ that this eventuality The Bill the number Government members-i.e.

yor-General, and four private licensed yors.

The Chairman of the Board, the or in the Surveyor­ Surveyor-General, General's absence the member presid­ ing, has a casting vote.
But as the number of Government representatives therein is only two as compared with the number of private members which is four, it is possible ment members to be out-voted time.

Honourable members will appreciate should not be allowed to continue.

seeks to avert it by raising of Government members from two to three by the addition of the Deputy Surveyor-General Board, and by reducing the number of private members from four to three.
For the information of the House I should like to say that in the original Ordinance a Chief Surveyor as opposed to the Deputy Surveyor­ General, who is higher in rank than a Chief Surveyor, was included as a member of the Board because that position was intended for the Chief Surveyor of the State of Singapore.

Unfortunately our ·Ordinance, and moreover the Survey Department ceased to be pan­ Malayan in structure.
that State did not accept as a member of the The Assistant Minister of Education (Enche' Abdul Hamid Khan): Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.

House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

1 l Bill considered in Committee.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1 to 4 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment: read a third time and passed.
I THE TREASURY BILLS (LONDON) (REPEAL) BILL Second Reading l l j I "an Act to The Minister of Finance (Eoche' Tan Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled repeal the Treasury Bills (London) Ordinance, 1949", be read a second time.

The purpose of the Bill is fully in the Explanatory Statement explained attached to the Bill, and I do not necessary to take up the consider it time of Honourable Members with further explanation. '
There is one other reason for which qualifications as a land Surveyor The Land 1958, as it now the Bill is introduced.

Surveyors Ordinance, stands makes it mandatory for the Land Surveyors Board to issue a licence to practise to any person, whether he be a Federal Citizen or not provided he has the necessary laid down by the Ordinance and registered Section 9 of the Ordinance.
The number of entitled officers in the Survey Department who have retired under the Malayanisation Scheme has increased from year to year and are now applying for a licence to practise in this country.

To safeguard the interests issue.

of licences zens s'hould be controlled.

seeks to give the Minister discretion in this matter.

Citi­ to non-Federal of this country, of the citizens The Bill under Sir, I beg to move.

The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Enche' Mohamed Kbir Jobari): motion.

Sir.
Sir.

I beg to second the Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time and ·committed to a Committee of the whole House.

House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

Bill considered in Committee.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the BiII.

Bill reported without amendment; Sir, I beg to move.

read a third time and passed.


1083 20 JUNE 1961 1084 THE TOWN BOARDS (AMENDMENT) BILL Second Readin& Finally I wish to say that this Bill has been discussed at the last meeting of the National Council for Local Government and has its approval.

Sir, I beg to move.
Sir, I beg to move.

and The Minister of Internal Security Minister of the Interior (Dato' Dr. Ismail): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg 0an Act ·to move that to amend the Town Boards Enactment of the Federated Malay States and of the State of Johore" be now read a second time.

a Bill intituled Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Question put.

and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.
I Sir, the need for a comprehensive in the central Town and Country Planning Act has been felt for a long time, but this will take some time to consider and pre­ pare; nevertheless there are certain urgent and pressing aspects of the in Kuala problem, particularly Lumpur, and as an interim measure this Bill has been brought bef0re this House.

High buildings areas of towns, when not wholly office blocks, usually comprise commercial ·premises on the lower floors with flats above.
The commercial accommoda­ tion creates traffic and parking problems, which arise from the cars of workers and visitors.

element also burdens the residential loeal authority with the provision of schools, open spaces and domestic although to some extent this garaging, with day latter need can be dovetailed time commercial requirements.

is thus needed over the total permis­ sible floor space, housing and population densities and the extent to which lots shall be built upon.
Section 136 of the Enactment already provides for control of the intensity of develop­ ment by reference to the number of houses per acre of land, and the amendment proposed by clause 2 (ai) will extend this power to include control of the total area to be built upon and the total floor space of buildings.
whilst the f I I l t � t I It is proposed by clause 2 (b) to amend section 146 of the Enactment, in order to create a penalty in respect of any change of use of buildings a draft town plan has been formally approved, and this repairs all omission in the Enactment.

after House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

Bill considered in Committee.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair) Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment : read.

a third time and pa�sed.


THE SUPPLEMENTARY SUPPLY BILL Second Reading The Minister of Finance (Enclte' Tan I beg to Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker.

Sir.

move that "a Bill intituled an Act to apply sums out of the Consolidated expenditure for the Fund for additional service of the years 1960 and 1961, to appropriate such sums for certain and to provide for the purposes Control replacement of amounts advanced from the Contingencies a second time.

Fund" be read This Bill, Sir.


represents a departure of Supplementary for expenditUre in that it seeks in regard to from previous practice authority two separate sets Estimates.

One of these is for the year 1960 and the other is for the year 1961.

The purpose of the change is to enable to be dealt with both sets of estimates in the course of one debate and thus to simplify the task of the House when considering proposals.

When, as has sometimes happened in the past.


one Supplemen­ tary Supply Bill in respect of the current year's expenditure follows directly upon the final Bill relating to the previous year's estimates, it is natural that a lot of the steam should the Government's financial l l 1085 20 JUNE 1961 1086 have gone out of the debate before are the �eedings on the later Bill completed.

The new system also has the advantage of doing away with complicated titles such as "The Supplementary Supply (1960) (No.
3) Act, 1961."

In future the various Supplementary Supply Acts passed in any year will merely be numbered in sequence in that year although they may contain sections dealing with the requirements of previous years.

which are marked with enables them to be distin­ items are all shown at the beginning under Heads .

marked with the letter "C".

This guished more clearly from the Supply Heads.

the letter "S", and which alone are subject to debate and approval in the present proceed ings.
The total of the Supplementary Estimates 1961 is $6,452,990 under three Heads marked with "C' on the first page of the Estimates.

total included in the Supplementary Supply Bill in respect of 1961 is there­ fore $6,415,157.

of which $37,833 appears 1 l The Oause 2 of the Bill provides expenditure of the total of the additional authority for additional $4,.246,095 on the various services itemised in the Third Supplementary 1960. which Estimates of Expenditure, are laid before you as Command Paper No.

24.
24.

These estimates bring to $31,423.281 expenditure incurred for 1960, apart sum of $888,674.650 from the original approved before the year began.
The accounts for the year 1960 which have recently been closed have not yet been audited and presented to Parliament, but from preliminary have seen I can the expenditure approved by the two Supplementary Supply Acts which have already been passed in respect of that year, together with that for which approval is now sought, will in fact all be met from savings within of the $888 million originally approved.
assure the House that figures which I the total no less various specific It will be noted that although the total of the additional expenditure included in the Third Supplementary Estimates 1960 is $12.391.614, than $8,145,519 of this consists of expenditure charged on the Consoli­ dated Fund for such items as pensions, gratuities, loan interest and other purposes falling under laws.

The sum for which legislative authority is now required in respect of 1960 is therefore only $4,246,095.
In Command Paper No.

24 the charged expenditure the practice which obtained prior to the publication under the same Heads as that allotted for the Supply expenditure guished with a dagger.

In the case of the 1961 Supplementary Estimates, however.

which are tabled as Com­ mand Paper No.


25, the charged items are shown, following of the 1961 Estimates, but distin­ It is not necessary for me, at this stage, to go into the details of the estimates for which authority is required since the Ministers concerned will be available to deal with these in the Committee Stage.

Sir, I beg to move.

The Minister of Education (Eoclae' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib): Sir, I beg to second the motion.
Enche' Zolk ilee bin Muhammad · dua Anggaran Tam­ Tambahan ini Yang Ber­ (Bachok): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ketika mengemukakan Rang Undang2 Perbekalan hormat Menteri Kewangan telah menyebutkan bahawa apa yang di­ buat•nya pada kali ini ada-lah terke­ luar daripada kebiasaan yang di­ lakukan dalam ·Dewan · ini pada menchantumkan bahan di-dalam satu Rang Undang2.
Hikmat atau tujuan-nya perchantuman memudahkan, tetapi saya merasa bahawa perchantuman kan payah lagi memikirkan soal dua tahun hendak dalam satu Bill, Tuan di-jalankan tambahan pula kertas Yang di-Pertua, Bill ini baharu kita terima pada malam tadi-pada waktu yang akhir-dan menyebabkan fikiran kita kapada-nya hanya terbatas kapada beberapa jam sahaja.

ini menambah­ · bagi Parlimen ini kata-nya ia-lah untok di-lakukan ini walau ba:gai­ Tuan Yang di-Pertua, mana pun.
saya tidak-lah bahawa permintaan penambaha� satu angka yang besar berbanding dengan Anggaran Perbelanjaan biasa yang telah kita luluskan memandang pada masa .
ini 1 l l 1087 20 JUNE 1961 1088 I f i Luar dan dalam me­ Pembangunan hendak di-chepat ia-lah ber'kenaan dengan membahathkan anggaran tahun yang dahulu, tetapi yang saya fikirkan di­ sini ia-lah dasar supaya di-lakukan lebeh berhemat dalam perbelanjaan hendak-Jah di-amalkan lagi oleh Kerajaan, terutama dalam mengang­ ga.rkan perbelanjaan nentukan peratoran2 belanja, Dalam Estimates yang ada pada kita ini satu daripada-nya Kementerian Bandar yang dalam-nya ada per­ belanjaan2 kemajuan.
Perbelanjaan ke­ majuan oleh kerana memajukan negeri ini, boleh jadi di· setengah2 keadaan timbul tidak sempat memikirkan kawalan2 kapada per­ belanjaan dan sa-bagai-nya.

ini kita telah dapat melihat satu gambar yang di-siarkan dalam surat khabar berkenaan dengan sa-buah jambatan di-Tanjong menunjokkan betapa telah di-bangunkan puma dan tidak siap, konterektor telah lari.
Saya tidak tahu apa yang telah dan Kerajaan di-ator oleh Kementerian dalam soal perbelanjaan, tetapi oleh kerana kita hendak berhemat dan mengawal dengan halus perbelanjaan negeri ini terpaksa-Iah dalam mem­ belanjakan ini Menteri Kewangan membuat peratoran2 yang rapi supaya jangan lagi terjadi perbuatan yang saperti itu.

Karang yang sa-buah jambatan tetapi tidak sem­ Baharu2 funds.
Mr. Speaker: Well, if you want to take up that item relating to the Ministry of Health, we will go into that when we come to the Committee stage.

Enche' K. Karam Singh: I won't be speaking at the Committee stage.

I am speaking generally.

Mr. Speaker: Yes, you can speak on the general policy.

Enche' K. Karam Singh: I refer to to the the use of funds belonging Social Welfare Lotteries Fund.

We havei been seeing pictures tant Minister of Rural Development handing out cheques belonging Welfare Lotteries.
of the Assis­ to the Enche' Tan Siew Sin: On a point of Lotteries are not order.

Sir, Welfare public funds.

Mr. Speaker: Welfare Lotteries are not public funds, and you can't speak on that.

Enche' K. Karam Singh: It belongs to the Ministry of Health and Social Welfare.

Mr. Speaker: But it is not public Berdasar kapada mustahak·nya penambahan perbelanjaan ini saya tidak-lah tetapi saya berharap perhematan di-lakukan lebeh kuat.

hendak membangkang, Encbe' K. Karam Singh: Mr. Spea­ ker.
Sir, I would refer to this Supple­ mentary Supply Bill and in particular to the money applied for th.

Ministry of Health and Social Welfare.

Sir, it is quite strange that the same Ministry should apply for money when quite irregular that Ministry is going on.

I refer specifically to .

.

.

use of money belonging to .

Mr. Speaker: We are coming to that stage-item by item at the Committee stage.

Eoche' K. Karam Singh: Then, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have nothing more to say (Laughter).
Encbe' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, which I Sir, there is only one point would like to deal with and that point was made by the Honourable Member for Bachok.

He apparently is under the impression is forward of supplementary an indication on the part of the Government.

That is not necessarily that the bringing estimates of extravagance so.

Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: On a point of information, I did not say that.

I never said that it is a sign of extravagance.

Mr. Speaker: What is your point?


Encbe' Zolki8ee bin Muhammad: Enche' K. Karam Singh: This is My point is this : I to1d him that the general, Sir.

Government should exercise economy.

1089 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1090 Encbe' Tan Siew Sin: I have nothing more to say (Laughter).

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time.

House immediately resolved itself into a Committee of Supply.

the Bill itself.
the Bill itself.

However, I would like to say here that there are three Sub-heads of Expenditure which are included in· the Supplementary Esti­ mates of Expenditure for 1960-the Sub-heads of expenditure are as follows : O.C.S.E.

(New Sub-head 50-Com­ mission of Enquiry into Students Activities in Republic of Ireland.

the U.K. and the 0.C.S.E.

(New Sub-head 54-Fur­ nishing of Assistant Ministers' Houses.

O.C.S.E.

(New Sub-head 55-Contri­ bution to Che' Som binti Haji Mahmood Trust Account.
Perhaps, there is nothing more I should say under these sub-heads.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair) FIRST ScHEDULE­ Heads 2, 4 and 6- Tbe Prime Minister: I beg to move that Heads 2, 4 and 6 stand part of the Schedule.
Enche' Tan Phoek Kin (Tanjong): Sir, I wonder whether the Honourable the Prime Minister can explain as to provision is required why additional of honoraria and to meet the payment allowances to Registering Officers and Assistant Registering Officers for the on under Head 4, period of registrati sub-head 6 (3), Election Commission.

From my knowledge it appears to me .,,.


that as far as registration for the period Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr. Spea· the Estimates here ker, Sir, I rise again to query a few of the&e items, and I hope that the Minister concerned will be able to jus­ cf tify this House as to the necessity because, if we arc such expenditure, to discuss and if Ministers are not in a position to convince us as to the justification of then discussion of the expenditure, such Estimates in this House is merely a farce.
I would therefore urge that, if Honourable Ministers are not in a to explain, they will have the position such proposals 01 grace to withdraw defer considerations of such proposals convince until they are in a position to the justification this House as to of the I sincerely expenditure.

hope queries will not that my next two receive the same reply as my first one.

Mr. Speaker, I refer first to Head ?


, Sub-head 50, in regard to the expendi­ ture in relation Enquiry into Studen�s Activities in U.K. and the Republic of Ireland under wMch a sum of $52,353 is being pro· vided.
There is n o provision in the original estimates, and I w�ld like t�e to enlighten this Minister concerned House in regard to the breakdown of this expenditure, because I believe that a Minister was specially sent to the United Kingdom to enquire into this : this House as perhaps he can enlighten incurred by this to the expenditure to the Commission of the Therefore.
the first registration could s. It was discovered is concerned there have been actually two registration later on that not serve the purpose and so a fresh registration was conducted.

Perhaps the Prime Minister could· explain to thii.

House as to the cause of this error, because quite a large sum of money has been wasted on the first registration whatsoever, and also to assure this House that errors of this nature will not recur again.
which served no purpose The Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have to refer this to the Election Commission because it does not actually come under my portfolio.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $98,420 for Heads 2, 4 and 6 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head 7- The Prime Minister: Sir, I rise to mov.e that Head 7 stand part of the Schedule.
There is nothing for me to explain at length on it has been adequately e.xplained in this Head because 1091 20 JUNE -1961 1092 Minister with regard to the hotel and other expenses, and also, perhaps, to inform this House in some detail as to the make-up of this $52,353.

Secondly, on Head 7, Sub-head 8, I shall be grateful if the Minister con­ cerned can also enlighten this House as furnishing of to the sum required for Assistant Ministers' houses.

I believe Enche' Tan Siew Sin: There is no Sub-head 8 !
Mr.

Speak er: I think you are referring to Head 7.

Sub-head 54?

Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Well, I was looking at the other item.

8.

Mr. Speaker: We are now under Head 7.

You must confine that.

yourself to Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Under Head 7, there is another heading­ paragraph 8.

So I refer to Head 7, Furn ishing of Assistant Ministers Houses.

Mr. Speaker: Sub-head 54?

Ministers.

such purposes is Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Yes, Sir.
In regard to this, I believe that as far as the expenditure for concerned, it is normal for Government to have a sort of approved scale for furniture, whether it is for Ministers or Perhaps, for for Assistant Division I officers it is usual to have some sort of a scale approved, and I do not know whether, as far as Assistant houses are concerned, there Ministers' is any scale at all or whether it is left to the whims and fancies of furniture Assistant they like.

I feel that it is very important.


no such scale, then how are If there is what sort of the Ministers to decide furniture should be purchased?

This may result in a lot of wastage because a certain Minister may have a fancy for certain things which have no and eventually when some­ whatsoever body else becomes the Assistant Minister he will discard the furniture.

So, I would like an assurance Minister concerned that there are some with regard to rules and regulations such expenditure.
to buy any Ministers from the utility Enche' Zulkiftee bin Muh ammad: Kepala 7, oleh Suro­ Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Kepala Kechil 50, perbelanjaan tam­ bahan yang di-minta sa-banyak $10 tetapi nampak-nya $30 berkenaan dengan Surohanjaya yang menyiasat berkenaan dengan haF kedudokan penuntut2 di-United Kingdom dan Republic Ireland.
Saya telah membacha apa yang telah di-laporkan hanjaya itu kapada Dewan ini dan nampak di-dalam ini beberapa usaha oleh Surohanjaya ini yang di-lakukan bagi memperbaiki keadaan penuntut2 di-United Kingdom dan di-antara kerja2-nya termasok juga mengambil tahu tentang kedudokan penuntutz di­ Republic of Ireland.

Dari penyata ini nyata-lah Kerajaan mengambil berat yang tempat-nya kapada penuntut2 sebutkan itu.
Saya suka bertanya kapada Kerajaan bagaimana-kah pada pandangan Kerajaan tentang shor2 yang di-kemukakan oleh Surohanjaya itu, sampai sa-takat mana-kah yang akan di-jalankan Tanah Melayu, dan apa-kah pada fikiran Kerajaan Persekutuan Melayu berkenaan dengan penuntut2 negeri lain saperti di-Masir, India, yang juga ada kesulitan Indonesia yang berkehendakkan kapada perhatian dan pengawalan daripada Kerajaan supaya pelajaran mereka itu dapat benar2 berguna kapada Kerajaan Persekutuan Tanah Melayu yang berhajatkan kapada tiap2 sa-orang penuntut itu.
oleh Kerajaan Persekutuan Tanah -.

di­ Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya nampak itu, kalau ta' salah ingatan dengan Kera­ dalam kerja2 yang di-jalankan oleh Surohanjaya saya ada hubongan-nya jaan Singapura dan juga kedudokan oleh sebab penuntut2 dari Singapura, itu saya hendak tahu berapa-kah oleh perbelanjaan yang di-tanggong itu, ada­ kedua2-nya umpama-nya kah Kerajaan Singapura, mengambil untong dari Surohanjaya itu, atau ada mengambil dalam perkara itu.
oleh Surohanjaya bahagian Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, Sir.

two points have been raised by opposite.

The Honourable Members first one concerns the subject of the Commission of Enquiry into Student in the U.K. and the Republic Activities --·--- -------- 1093 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1094 Honourable on this subject, Members who are pro­ of Ireland.

Honourable Members, including have spoken bably aware that the Commission which went to the United Kingdom has produced a very comprehensive and thorough report.
This sum of $52,000 odd covers not only transport· expenses to and from the there were four of official who accompanied covers travelling the cost of secretarial and clerical assis­ tance within the country and the cost of other miscellaneous seen, therefore, that the sum of was well spent, and I do not think it could be regarded figure.

It is obviously me now to give the breakdown figure, but there is nothing mysterious or excessive about it.
as an unreasonable not possible of this United Kingdom­ them including the them-it also within the British items.

It will be Isles, for $52,000 laut hendak-lah saberang dalam Kemen­ Anggaran Perbelanjaan terian Pelajaran berkenaan dengan sa-berang laut.

penuntut lihat kapada bagitu sahaja, i 1 Itu-kah di-Pertua.

Kerajaan hendak men­ chukup, Tuan Yang Enche' Zulkiftee bin Muhammad: mengikut ada susah sadikit, yang saya sebut­ ya?
Kalau kita daripada Penyata yang di­ Saya tidak-lah yang sa-benar-nya Tuan Yang kan ada-kah gadakan Surohanjaya bagi negeri yang lain itu supaya ia dapat tahu keadaan­ nya itu.

Tidak-lah di-Pertua, bahawa Kerajaan mengata­ kan ia sudah mengambil tahu, mem­ buat satu hostel di-Masir.
sahaja kesulitan-n perhatikan kemukakan oleh Surohanjaya baharu2 ini, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, di-dalam-nya terdapat beberapa shor yang berguna bagi penuntut2 kalau negeri yang lain itu pun di-buat demikian, boleh jadi penuntut2 kita yang belajar itu akan mendapat faedah lebeh banyak.

Itu yang menjadi soal kapada kita, dan ada-kah Kerajaan memikirkan hal Kerajaan ini; dan tidak mustahak-lah pertanyaan memandang sa-suatu yang saperti satu pentas hendak bersilat.

mustahak tidak-nya itu.
Dan saya perchaya ini sa-bagai must Sir, a sum of $7,500 is allotted to Minister for furnishings, to say that every house each Assistant and again in this case it is not really possible have 'X' chairs and no more and no less than 'X' chairs and 'Y' tables and no more and no less than 'Y' because the houses themselves are quite a different and each house requires slightly But I think on the whole the scale laid down is reasonable amount sanctioned the details scrutiny amount is actually by the Treasury before the spent.
in so far as the total and is concerned, themselves are subject to tables, different scale of furnishings.

daripada negeri, United Kingdom dan Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Bachok ber­ tanya apa-kah langkah2 yang telah di-jalankan oleh Kerajaan bagi ke­ mudahan penuntut kita di-luar sa-lain Ireland.
jelaskan terangkan Kerajaan tidak melupakan sama sa­ yang lain itu, sa­ kali akan penuntut2 bagaimana rumah tompangan (hostel) saperti di-Masir masa sekarang ini.
yang saya telah terangkan, atau asrama pada Saya rasa mustahak-lah sa-bagaimana sedang di-dirikan dalam Dewan ini bahawa saya Oleh itu, kalau hendak tahu apa-kah Kerajaan buat kapada penuntut2 di- yang telah saya Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr. Speaker, of Finance, my 54, is by is concerned a specific because as far the Minister is provided for all know too that Sir, with regard to the reply of the Honourable it appears to me that the reply to query on Head 7, sub-head no means satisfactory, as Government scale of furnishing civil servants-we civil servants houses-and sidered reasonable the civil the Ministers the same control.
there is no justification and his explanation factory.

have different if one standard to servants, I see no reason why should not come under It appears to me that is bY!

no means satis­ for application is con­ types of I made no allegation The second point is in regard to sub­ head 50.

I was merely asking for information.

that it is unreasonable; I made no allegation that the money spent is too much.

I merely ask for a breakdown.


If he is unable to give me a breakdown, let 1095 20 JUNE 1961 1096 estimates, I think the , I must repeat that him say so and not beat about the that I have bush by insinuating suggested that the sum spent is too much.
Here again if we are here to discuss and approve supplementary Minister concerned should have all the information no point of discussing finance if the Minister unable to furnish us with information, so that we can discuss matters of finance more objectively and more fruitfully.

matters of concerned is because we have found cutlery and so on.

Therefore, it has been necessary for the Government to provide all that, and in the past we have done so, it necessary to do the furnishing for them.
The small amount which is allocated is the amount paid to Assistant the Honourable the Minister of Finance just now.

Ministers as explained by Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $30 for Head 7 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
available, because there is Head 21- If Ministers concerned are going to stand up one after another to say that they are in no position to furnish figures at meetings when the Supply Bill is to be discussed, when we are asked to approve estimates, to approve specific sums of money, if we are not in a position to been spent, how can we discuss it?
I ask the Ministers to give consideration to this matter and not treat it like this, because democracy is government by discussion and it will be a farce if we are unable to get the information required.

know how the money has estimates Mr. Speaker, The Prime Minister: Sir, these supplementary come into this House year after year, and I think Honourable Members are aware of the procedure or method of presenting them.

It is not normal for us to come here to give details.
These things are done by the clerical staff in the Treasury and after they have worked out the figures as to the amount spent and the amount required these are then put forward.

Now, for instance, like the item Furnishing of Assistant Ministers' Member is confusing The servants with the Ministers.

Government servants are employed by the Government up to a certain age and for a certain period after which they retire with appropriate or appropriate Ministers.
Houses, the Honourable gratuities, but not the the Government pensions Sir, in this case, you cannot expect the Assistant Minister to come in and be asked to spend his own money, as he has none, on the furnishing of his house, on the purchase of crockery, The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that Head 21 stand part of the Schedule.
totalling $609,526 is that the of $ 1,000,000 for The reason for the increase Sir, under sub-head 19, a provision of $51 1, 1 1 8 is asked for to supplement the original provision the year 1 960 which was found to be insufficient.
in expenditure number of - new villages, which remain within the portfolio Ministry, of the Defence the 3 1st December, 1959-the number was originally duced to 14 and five villages the responsibility of increasing the number of undertakings running at a loss and this has resulted in an increase subsidy asked for.

has become my Ministry thus in the total amount of 1 9-has since been re­ after With regard to sub-head 26, Interna­ Study Group Meeting, to meet 1 960.
The International tional Rubber Study Group was required 1960, the provision the expenses of the 15th Meeting of the International Rubber held in Kuala Lumpur from 1 9th to 26th September, Rubber Study Group, as Honourable Members are aware, is an international organisation countries the major producers and synthetic both natural and aim of the Group is to provide an ternational tries can meet together from time to _ time to discuss problems arising from and use of the production, manufacture rubber and keep natural and synthetic consisting and comprising rubber.
The in­ of most of consumers of forum where member coun­ of 22 member , 1097 20 JUNE 1 961 1 098 in under the world rubber situation constant review.

Since its inception 1 944 the International Rubber Study Group has met 14 times, each time in a different member country.

This was the first time that the Government of of Malaya was host to the Federation this group and I am glad to report that the delegates the best meeting they had so far.

considered that this was attended Sir, I beg to move.
expenses for electricity Enche' Liu Yoong Peng (Rawang): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree to the prin­ ciple that, when new villages are not able to meet the supply, the Government should supply the sum required.

For example, in Batu Arailg when the Government took over the control from the Malayan Colliery Board Limited, the Central Electricity was able to undertake to provide elec­ tricity in the initial C.E.B., they would not be able to meet the expenses for the whole area.
So, I �11ope that the Minister for only a limited area, because stage, according to the can take into amount re­ worth of savings provisions and this sum the additional quired as supplement to meet lump on account sum payments to reservists of of the new Terms and Conditions Service which came into effect in 1 960.

Over a million dollars were found from other items in the Ministry's represents quired.

Under Head 23, sub-head 21 an additional amount of $654,000 is required.
Originally it was thought that no duty is payable on petrol and other lubricants, but later on it ·was found necessary to pay duty on these items.

Therefore a supplementary provision required.

an amount of $472;225 is required to units re­ purchase vehicles from other maining in the Federation for our in the Congo.

Now this Special Force sum is required for the replacement of those vehicles taken by our Malayan Special Force to the Congo.

Under Head 23, sub-head 43 is Question put, and agreed to.
The sum of $ 1,506,579 for Heads 22 and 23 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

consideration if certain sums are provided he will consider Batu Arang as well.

Thank you.

that, and Head 28- Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari: I shall certainly consider Batu Arang.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $609,526 for Head 21 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya Kepala bangun menchadangkan supaya 28-Kementerian umlah Pelajaran-berj sa-bahagian sa-banyak $26,020 jadi yang daripada Jadual ini.

Keterangan2 lanjut ada di-beri dalam Cmd.

Paper 26 of 1961 muka 8, para 1 6, 1 7 dan 18.


Heads 22 and 23- The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defence (Tun Haji Abdul Razak): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the expenditure under Head 22, Ministry of Head 23, the Regular Army, totalling $1,506,579, stand part of the Schedule Defence, and also under .

Sir, under Head 22, sub-head 37 a token vote of $10 is required to meet the cost of the End of Emergency Celebrations.
The total cost of the End of Emergency Celebrations was $210,062, but this amount was found from savings on items within the same lfead.

Enche' V. V eerappen (Seberang Selatan): Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I speak on Head 28, I would express disgust at the attitude of the Govern­ ment in running rough shod over the way in which matters are discussed in this House, and especially at inability Standing Orders, and I wonder how you yourself, because I notice that S.O.
67 (2) says: estimate shall be its to follow the provisions of the Sir, have allowed this, "Every supplementary clear days laid upon the Table at least three before the meeting at which the supple­ mentary Supply Bill is to be introduced."

I wonder how many days this Supply Bill was laid on the Table?

Under Head 23, The Regular Army, Mr. Speaker: Under what Standing :sub-head l , a sum of $380,344 is re- Order?

1099 20 JUNE 1961 1 100 Secretaries Enche' V. Veerappen: 67 (2), Sir.
I many must say that we do not have so Secretaries, Assistant and so many hundreds of files that they comma nd; and surely they do not expect us to come here and be able to discuss matters on the spur of the moment.

However, Sir, I would like to say that I have mentioned this in the hope-for I do know that you are not going to suspend this sitting just to give three days notice-that the Government wi11 consider the Opposi­ tion as human beings so many Secretaries and so forth to assist them.
who do not have Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I am glad to note that the Ministry of Education has found it necessary to request for additional sums for the National Language classes, I must say that I wonder whether the Ministry has made adequate provisions for teachers with for teaching in the right qualifications these Further Education Classes and for textbooks.
I remember having made the remark previously in regard to our Further Education Classes that not all those ·who study there are children but there are adults also and to teachers, they are being subjected who are used to the method of teaching children.

The textbooks used those that are suitable for children only.

are also Minister could have told this sure the House how it would serve this country and the people here, if a contribution is made from this place.
The voting of this provision of $26,000 amou.rlts to an approval by this House for the towards Churchill College contribution and I hope that the Minister will give us that explanation.

· (Meng· Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam lembu): Mr. S peaker, Sir, I speak on Head 28, sub-head 97-Payment of ex-gratia passage to an officer in the Malayan Students' Department, Lon­ don.
Now, there are no details here as to who he is, or why this ex-gratia payment is made; and by the term "ex-gratia" I take it to mean that it is made as a favour and not because.

the to it.

I think this officer is entitled to know more details, House is entitled and we should like to know why this particular officer should receive an payment for a passage· to go ex-gratia back to his country.

I suggest that if an officer is not entitled to a passage.

then he should not get it.

We can make-.


much better use of that money in this country.

Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji It is most deplorable to note that the provision under sub-head 58 has been cut down in order to make provision for the payment of an ex-gratia passage to an officer in the Malayan Students' Department, London : we see that in sub-head 97 $3,813 has been reduced from the provision for "Publication and supply of textbooks".
I consider the supply of textbooks very vital and essential in our Further Education Classes, and I do not know why this should be so.

I am sure that the Ministry could have found savings in other places and I hope that the Minister will give this explanation.
House an Talib: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, perkara yang pertama di-bangkitkan oleh wakil dari Seberang Selatan itu ia·lah ada­ kah Kementerian puas hati ia-itu guru2 yang mengajar bahasa kebangsaan dalam darjah2 pelajaran lanjutan Inggeris ya'ani guru2 yang ada ke­ mahiran.

Saya memberi akuan pada­ nya bahawa guru2 yang mengajar itu ia-lah guru2 yang ada chukup penge­ tahuan dan kemahiran mengajar dalam bahasa kebangsaan kita.
Perkara yang kedua yang di-bangkitkan-nya ia-lah perkara berkenaan dengan buku bachaan atau textbook.

Perkara ini tidak-lah menchukupi bagaimana yang di-kehendaki yang sa-benar-nya, tetapi usaha ka-arah melengkapkan jenis yang di-jalankan ber­ Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka yang tanggong jawab dalam hal ini.

dengan giat-nya oleh My next comment is on sub-head 100, i.e., Contribution to Churchill College, Cambridge, of $26,000.
I do not know why it is necessary for this country to contribute towards the building of Churchill College.

I am Berkenaan dengan ia berasa duka­ chita fasal wang sa-banyak $3,813.,.
telah di-ambil daripada perbelanjaan untok mengeluarkan nya ada perbelanjaan textbook, sebab­ lebeh pada tahun 1 10 1 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1 102 pesan 1960 tentang membeli buku bachaan­ textbook ia-lah buku yang kita dalam tahun 1 960 itu belum semua-nya siap dan dengan sebab itu wang yang tersebut ta' mustahak di-bayar pada tahun 1 960.

Jadi dengan kita ambil wang ini dan pembayaran akan di-lakukan daripada peruntokan tahun 1 96 1 .
sebab itu-lah Berkenaan dengan pegawai yang tambang di-bayar tambang itu dia ini ia-lah pegawai dari Tanah Melayu, tetapi malang-nya mulai dia di-ambil bekerja dia berada di-England sana.

Jadi dia ta' ada berhak mendapat pulang balek mengikut peratoran pegawai yang di-ambil di-sini.

Pada masa itu dia berada di-England, dan pada masa ini dia sakit.

Pegawai ini telah berkhidmat dengan memberi puas hati.
Jadi Kerajaan memikirkan terpaksa-lah dia di-beri tambang, kerana doctor di-sana telah menasihat­ kan supaya dia berihat di-Tanah Melayu-tidak di-England.

Cameroonian Independence Celebra­ tions, amounting to $ 10-stand part of the Schedule.

Sir.

I would like to give an explana� The originally voted to meet all tion on sub-head 8.

As has been explained already in Command Paper No.


26 of 1961, the additional provision is required to meet the cost of passages and other travelling expenses for officers of the Ministry of External Affairs on transfer.

of $85,000 is inadequate expenses in connection with the move­ ment of officers on transfer and leave for the year 1960, and this additional provision of $81,585 is, therefore, However.

it was possible to necessary.


meet this expenditure from additional savings from other sub-heads and hence a token provision of $ 1 0 is sought.

provision Under sub-heads 43 and 44, I liave nothing to add because they have been sufficiently explained in Command Paper No.

26 of 1 96 1 and any addi­ would only be a tional explanation waste of time.
Berkenaan dengan peruntokan sa- ,-c- · banyak $26,000 bantuan Kerajaan College, Under sub-head 45 a provision of Persekutuan kapada Churchill saya fikir perkara ini menasabah kerana Churchill College ini banyak juga penuntut2 Malaya di-sana ada-lah sa-bahagian kita ia-itu daripada Kerajaan Perseku­ tuan dan juga negeri2 Commonwealth yang lain yang ada penuntut2 di-sana pun ada mendapat bantuan dari Kerajaan2-nya.
dari Kementerian dan ini $ 12,940 is required for expenses in connection with the Federation of Malaya Delegation to the Cameroonian Celebrations.

Here, again, Independence it was possible to meet the expenses out of savings from other sub-heads and only a token provision of $10 is sought.

Enche' V. David (Bungsar): Mr.

Question put, and agreed to.


The sum of $26,020 for Head 28 Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek clarification from the Minister concerned regarding items 20 and 21 under Head 29. ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Under item 20, it is stated in Com­ Head 29--:- The Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that Head 29-sub­ head 8 : Officers on Attachment, Leave, Overlap and Transfer, amounting to $ 1 0; sub-head 43 : Visit of the Deputy Prime Minister and Party to Nigeria and London, 23rd September to 1 2th October, 1960, amounting to $24,500; sub-head 44 : Visit of the Minister and Party to North America and Europe, amounting to $ 1 3 1 .419; and sub-head 45 : Expenses of Federa­ tion.
of Malaya Delegates to the Prime mand Paper No.

26/ 6 1 , "The expenses of the Deputy Prime Minister and party during the visit to Nigeria and London in September/October, 1 960."

I would like to know who are the members who accompanied the Deputy Prime Minister.

Again, Sir, under item 2 1 , it is stated "The expenses of the Prime Minister and party during the visit to North America and Europe."
It is necessary for this House to know who are the members who accompanied Minister and whether the party includes the Honourable the Minister of Health.

the Prime 1103 20 JUNE 1961 1104 The Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, the External Affairs, the Sir, I think I can remember who accompanied me and it was certainly not the Minister of Health.
The mem­ bers who accompanied me are: Enche' Zaiton from Press Officer, the Personal Secretary, Enche' Sopiee, Enche' Sujak, the Con­ troller of Trade Division and, one servant.

As regards the officers who accompanied the Deputy Prime Minister, he will tell you himself because I cannot remember the names of the officers.

I think, Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, only two officers accompanied me-the Permanent Secretary, Department, and the Chief Protocol Officer.
Prime Minister's pick up from I would therefore year 1960 to which the old system still applies.

the Supplementary Estimates and the Treasury Memorandum those items for which Supply authority is needed and to leave aside those which are under the Consolidated charged Fund.

Under Head 32, Treasury, three authority.

but items require Supply under two of these the sum requested is only $10 as the necessary provision has been found from savings under these Heads.
Particulars items can be found on pages 10 and 11 of the Treasury Memorandum, and I will take them in turn leaving out those which Consolidated are charged under the Fund.

of these three of the Federation Sub-head 8- to Overseas Enche' Liu Yoong Peng (Rawang): Paragraph 23, O.C.A.R.

Expenses of Delegates Conj ere nee.


Owing to the increasing Sir, is there any particular reason as to why the Minister of Health and Social importance in inter­ Welfare should accompany the Prime national affairs, the number of overseas Minister to America and Europe?

conferences to which it was found necessary to send representatives greater than expected and the provision required was greater by $50,000 than .

- the $300,000 estimated.

crease is a relatively felt desirable of Parliament.
provision to meet the additional savings under the same Head.

Mt.

Speaker: The Prime Minister has already stated that the Minister of Health did not accompany him to Europe.

to bring it to the notice But, in fact, only a token it was possible provision ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

The sum of $155,939 for Head 29 Question put, and agreed to.
is sought, since large one, it is Since the in­ from was Heads 32, 34 and 38- Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the expenditure shown under Heads 32, 34 and 38 totalling $395,095, $148,160 and $700,850 respectively stand part of the With your permission, Sir, I Schedule.

hope that I will be allowed to take these Heads together.

(Mr. Speaker indicates assent).


Sir, as I explained in my speech on and Supply Expenditure the second reading, the Supplementary Estimates for the year 1960 followed the old system of showing Charged Expenditure under the same Heads distinguished only a "dagger".

In respect of 1961, the system has.

been changed so that the Charged and Supply Heads are kept separate.

However.
However.

the Treasury is seeking approval today only for the additional expenditure in respect of the This sub-head is re­ pur­ Paragraph 24, O.C.A.R.

Sub- head 18-Repayment of Previous Year's Revenue.

quired largely for book-keeping poses since it is used to make repay­ ments of sums received in past years which, in fact for one reason or another ought to be returned to the person from whom they were collected.
There is no method of accurately estimating required from year to year for this purpose, and a sum of $100,000 entered in the Estimates little more than the token figure.

It may sometimes be too much and sometimes not enough.
In the present case, apart from any small miscel­ laneous items, the largest call on the sub-head was the repayment to the · Commonwealth Relations Office in respect of the Colonial Development the amount which will be is therefore 1105 20 JUNE 1961 1106 and Welfare Schemes which were wound up as a result of the Federa­ tion's gaining independence.

I now come to paragraph 26. practice held by (New) Sub-head 53-Loss O.C.S.E.

on is Sale of Investments.


This sub-head also required for book-keeping pur­ poses.

Due to the accounting which has been in force up to the time, every year it has been the present to review the value of the practice investments the Government at the market price as at 31st December, and the difference price the year previously is debited or to the accounts as the case credited may be.
When the investment comes to be sold, the accounts must then or debited with the either be credited difference price and between the selling the book value as shown as at 31st December.

In the present case, the result of the transaction as a result of the use of this method.
In fact, however-and able Members from the market I wish Honour­ of the Socialist Front to the selling price > note this clearly-if showed a loss and in the Supple­ Allowances to be approved 38-Pensions, Retiring Gratuities, under which the amount required mentary Supply Bill is $700,850.

The reasons why the sums totalling this amount required are, I think, clearly set out on pages 12 and 13 of the Treasury Memorandum under para­ graphs 32, 38, 39, not think it is necessary further.
anything 40 and 41, and I do for me to add Sir, I beg to move.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $395,095 for Head 32, for Head 34 and for Head 38 the sum of $148,160 the sum of $700,850 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head 39- The Minister of Health and Social Welfare (Dato' Ong Yoke Lin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that Head 39 totalling Schedule.

in Command Paper No.

26, and I do not think I need elaborate The item has been explained $70,000 stand part of the any further.
Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $70,000 for Head 39 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

no supplementary been compared with the purchase price, a profit would had instead original have been shown and would now have been neces­ provision sary.

Honourable Members will see, from therefore.

methods and it particular is for that reason that in it is described the Treasury Memorandum as a "paper" loss.
I must mention that it is proposed in future book-keeping years to alter the system of in this respect.

that this item results book-keeping Head 46- I will now tum to Head 34, Charges on account of Public Debt, which is dealt with on pages 11 and 12 of the Treasury Memorandum.

The Supply Expenditure involved amounts to $ 148,160 and falls under two Sub­ heads at paragraphs tively.

Both these Sub-heads similar of the United on transactions Loans.
The terms under which the Government issued these loans involve the paying of the cost of this U.K.

Stamp Duty.

Kingdom Stamp Duty taking place in Sterling payments in respect 29 and 30 respec­ deal with of the cost Head 58- The last of these in respect of which I am seeking additional sum, is Head Sir, I beg to Security (Dato' Tite Minister of Internal and Minister of the Interior Dr. Ismail): Mr. Speaker, move that the sum of $118,000 shown under Head 46 stand part of the Schedule.
This is required to pay Customs duties on paper and stationery purchased When the 1960 Estimates it was not realised that Customs would have to be paid by the Depart· ment concerned.

Printer.

were printed, by the Government duties Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $118,000 for Head 46 · ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

The Assistant Minister of Rural Development (Toan Haji Abdul Khalid bin Awang Osman): Mr. Speaker.
Sir, I beg to move that the expenditure under Head 58 totalling $90,000 stand 1 107 20 lUNE 1 96 1 1 108 part of · the Schedule.

· As the explana­ tion is already given in Command Paper No.

26 of 196 1 , I do not think I need elaborate further.

on the matter any Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr. Speaker.

of Land for E.C.A.F.E.


give some clarification It is stated here : "Addi­ required to meet the cost proceedings of Sir, I shall be grateful if the Minister concerned can with regard to Head 58, new Sub-head 26, Purchase Conference.

tional funds of the acquisition Lots 57 and 58-Town Section 58- Ampang Road, Kuala Lumpur, E.C.A.F.E.

the Minister to why the purchase is necessary.

Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid: Mr. for Conference Hall".

Perhaps concerned can explain as Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker.
Honourable Sir.

may I be allowed to explain in .-.. regard to a query raised by a previous speaker?

That particular Member has alleged ment did not give the required notice Order 67-that is, that under Standing every supplementary should estimate be laid on the table at least three clear days before the meeting at which the Supplementary that the Govern­ Supply Bill .

.

.

Enche' Zulkiftee bin Muhammad: Sir, on a point of order.
Mr. Speaker, is what is stated by the Honourable Minister relevant to this particular matter we are talking about?

Mr. Speaker: We are not concerned Wherever practic­ with that any more.

able it should be observed; in some (To Enche' cases it is not practicable.

Tan Siew Sin) Do you want to add more to what the Assistant anything said?

Minister Enche' Tan Siew Sin: No.

Sir, in reply to the Honourable were not satisfied Court.
The Federation of Land Revenue's total Speaker, Member for Tanjong in regard to sub-head 26.

I would say that the land purchased is the Tunku Abdul Rahman Hall ground.

It consists of four lots which were originally paid for out of The Estimates.

the Development owners from whom the lots were acquired with the Collector award of $ 183,300 and referred the matter to with one Government was not satisfied of the decisions Court and of the High appealed to the Court of Appeal.
The final judgment the Court of Appeal, was that the owners should be paid a total of $580,307 together with interest rate of six per cent per the date of occupation of the land till the date of award.

The $472,000 is to meet the difference arising from award and the interest.

actually spent of the Courts• settlement The amount was $471.164.

annum from at the of the Court, including the Collector's Although the original expenditure was paid out of the Development Estimates.
the expenditure resulting from the decisions of the Courts i s Fund, met from the Consolidated because Article the Federation of Malaya Constitution that any money required to satisfy any judgment, decision or award against the Federation by any Court of tribunal should be charged to the Consolidated Fund.

98 (I) of prescribes Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr. Speaker,-�­ E.C.A.F.E.

Minister the land bas as he stated, it is to the Tunku Abdul Rahman of the land is for additional Memorandum is misleading.
Sir, I am afraid the Assistant in his reply has given me the impres­ sion that the purchase of nothing to do with the Conference.

As stated here.

the purchase of the land was for a Con­ ference Hall for E.C.A.F.E.

But the according to his explanation, purchase land for the Tunku Abdul Rahman Hall, because, adjoining Hall; and so it seems to me that the Treasury We are asked here to approve money for the purchase E.C.A.F.E.
very clearly-but the explanation given by the Assistant Development the land is an adjoining Tunku Abdul Rahman Hall was a legal dispute the legal dispute.

that sum of money.

Here again it is a very serious matter (Laughter).

H I may say so, there is misrepresentati of facts in the Treasury again, and it is very Either the Honourable of Rural Minister stated very clearly that land to the on.

Memorandum - serious indeed.


and, as a result of they are asked to pay Conference-it is stated of a piece of land for the Assistant and there 1 109 20 JUNE 1961 1 1 10 facts to has misrepresented Minister me, or this Memorandum has misrepre· sented facts to this House.

This is very serious-one of them has committed breach of privilege, priate action should be taken.

a and I think appro­ think it requires any it is adequately Command Paper.

explained in the explanation as Question put, and agreed to.
The sum of $25,799 for Head 75 Enche' Tan Siew Sin: The Honour­ ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

The Minister of Internal Security and Minister of the Interior (Dato' Dr. Ismail) : Mr. Speaker, move that a sum of $26.548 under Head 77 stand part of the Schedule.

Sir, I beg to Head 77- worse con­ was originally easy to understand.

able Member for Tanjong as usual tried to make confusion founded.
Unfortunatel y, he has a mind which works in such a way that it cannot even understand things which are comparatively The land in question bought in order that the construction of the building time for the E.C.A.F.E.

which took place, as far as I can remember, my Honourable Minister already stated, satisfied Government to secure a greater sum, and this is result of the additional award.
has the owner was not by the of Rural Development, in February, 1958, and as with the award made could be finished in · the Assistant Conference friend, So I the and went to court in order .o-Ahink there is nothing incorrect in saying that this land was required for Conference, because the the E.C.A.F.E.

building was in fact originally used for that Conference, which took place more than three years ago.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $90,000 for Head 58 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Head 69- the of Internal According of Internal Security.

for 1960 there is a of $9,000 for the Minister of Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: Mr. Spea­ ker, Sir, I would like to query about the sums spent under the Ministry to the Third Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure provision Internal Security, $5,280 for Secretary to the Ministry Security and so forth.
Well, I would say that ever since that Minister has taken over the control of the Internal Security fessed it-he has exercised and his exercising gone far beyond anti-communist activities.

I would say that he has extended it to the legal parties, Front.

The such as the Socialist Police are under his supervision, and also, of course, of the Secretary course of persecuting the leading party-we know it as he has political that .

.

.

already admitted under the supervision to the Ministry.
of persecution Ministry-and political persecution, he has con­ In the has The Minister of Transport (Dato' Sardon bin Haji Jubir): Mr. Speaker, move that a sum of Sir, I beg to $275,129 under Head 69 stand part of the Schedule.

explanation No.

26 of 1961, page 1 5, I do not think I need to elaborate on Sir, in view of the given in Command Paper the matter.

Mr. Speaker: are Under what Head you speaking?

Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: Head 77.

Mr. Speaker: Sub-head?


Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: The whole Question put, and agreed to.

of sub-head 1 , Personal Emoluments.

The sum of $275,129 for Head 69 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Mr. Speaker: This provision required to effect a decision of Cabinet regarding the transfer of posts.

is Head 75- The Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, -�Sir, I beg to move that a sum of · $25,799 under Head 75-His Highness Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: there is a sum Persona] Emo1uments of $24,648.
Under the Timbala.n stand part of the Schedule.

Yang di-Pertuan I do not Agong, of posts.

Mr. Speaker: That is for the transfer 1 1 1 1 20 JUNE 1 961 1 1 12 Enche' Lio Yoong Peng: Yes, of posts, when to the transfer and the other officers take functions but political to perform and among them according the Secretary over their new posts they have certain functions are some which are not actually administrative functions, and this is· what I am going to explain.
For instance, times, the Police quite often refuse to permit us to hold rallies.

For instance, in Sungei Besi District we find that our applications rallies are only considered on day, on the day when the rally is supposed to be held.

for permission to hold during election the last Mr. Speaker: I must rule you out of order.

That has nothing to do with this provision.


Enche' Lio Yoong Peng: Sir, I just hope that the Minister and the Secretary will in future concentrate more on administrative than political business.

when carrying out their matters rather Question put, and The sum of $26,548 for Head 77 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

agreed to.

SECOND ScHEDULE- kenapa dari Socialist Front banyak sangat bagi saya hendak ber­ dari Parti Islam sa--.
chakap, tetapi Tanah Melayu ini, saya suka mendapat keterangan ada di·ambil tetapi dari Persatuan Islam sa-Tanah Melayu hanya di-ambil sa-orang sahaja, dan itu-lah bertanya.

Saya perchaya mendapat jawapan yang elok dari yang ber­ kenaan.

sahaja yang saya hendak dua orang pergi ka-India The Prime Minister: Tuan Speaker, yang pergi itu .

mahu-lah sa-benar-nya dengan memasokkan segala bangsa ia-itu yang di-katakan Malayan, orang2 yang pergi itu daripada keturunan India.
Jadi itu-lah sebab-nya di-masokkan lagi sa-orang keturunan India dari Ahli Socialist Front, kerana dari Parti Islam sa-Tanah Melayu tidak ada orang India.

tidak ada sa-orang pun Enche' Zolkilee bin Muhammad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kalau itu-lah jawapan-nya ambil-lah yang sa-orang Indian dari Socialist lah adil.

Sebab bagini, Tuan Yang -'-.

di-Pertua, saya tidak-lah particular sangat tentang perkara ini, tetapi kalau jawapan yang lain lebeh sedap .

.

.

saya suka dengar daripada jawapan itu.

Front.


jadi baharu­ Head S. ]-Parliament- Question put, and agreed to.

The Prime Minister: Sir, would you The sum of $ 15 ,365 for Head S. 1 agreed to stand part of the Schedule.

like me to carry on?

It is already one o'clock.

Mr. Speaker: This morning we ought to have started at half past ten, but we did not commence until forty minutes past ten.

So it is only fair that I give another ten minuts.


The Prime Minister: Sir, I beg to sub­ S. 1, Parliament, move that Head head 1 7.

Visit of a Parliamentary Party to India, $ 1 5,365, stands part of the Schedule.

the sum spent was only $ 15.365 and included in the party, which Sir.

were Front.

So I do not think there is very much for them to oppose the expen­ diture (Laughter).
some Members of the Socialist I am glad to say that you led, Head S. 6-Railway Service Commis­ sion- The Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that Head S. 6, Railway Service Commission, $ 1 8,000, stand part of the Schedule.

The amount of rent in required is for the payment respect of 1961 for the present office of the Railway Service accommodation Commission.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $ 18,000 for Head S. 6 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Head S. 7- Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Mr. Speaker, __ Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muh ammad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, berkenaan dengan perbelanjaan ini tidak-lah Sir, I beg to move that Head S. 7, · Prime Minister, totalling $534,881 stand part of the Schedule.

1 11 3 .

20 JUNE 1 96 1 1 11 4 Sir, under Head S. 7 , sub-head 1 , the a sum of $ 134,479 i s required for reorganisation of the Economic Secre­ tariat of the Prime Minister's Depart· ment.
It has now been decided that the Economic Secretariat should be reorganised and become an Economic ?Ia�ning Unit.

This is Sir, necessary, m view of the Second Five-Year Deve­ lopment Plan which has just been launched.

It is necessary to have a proper organisation not only.
for plan­ ning but also for keeping a watching brief on the progress of the various development sation will come directly under my ministerial largely responsible !he progress of the development pro­ jects under the Second Five-Year Development Plan.

projects.

This new Organi­ responsibility, for looking after and wiU be (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) Debate in , Committee of Supply resumed.
SECOND SCHEDULE­ H ead S. 8- The Assistant Minister of Informa­ (Tuan Syed Hasan Albar): Tuan tion and Broadcasting Ja'afar bin Pengerusi, saya mohon menchadangkan ia-itu Kepala 8 jumlah yang di­ kehendaki $ 1 0 menjadi sa-bahagian daripada jadual Perbekalan ini.

Tambahan Saya tidak berhajat hendak memberi apa2 penjelasan pada ketika ini, memadai dengan penjelasan yang ada di-Command Paper 26, 1961.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $ 1 0 for Head S. 8 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Now, Sir, under sub-head 1 8, a sum of $7,500 is required for the Annual Quran Competition.

As the House is aware, this year we held the Annual Quran Competition not only for internal .� competition but also for overseas and Head S. 15- it was a great success.

Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari: Sir, I beg to move that Head S. 15 totalling $69,358 stand part of the Schedule.
Under sub-head 25A, a sum of contribution $80,000 is required for our for the establishment of a United Nations Regional Office in Kuala Lumpur.

The United Nations requested that a Regional Office be established in Kuala Lumpur for this part of in South-East the interests head office should rather than in some other place.

Asia, and it considered, of the Federation, be in Kuala Lumpur that the The other items under Other Charges are minor items and they are explained in Command Paper No.

26 of 196 1 .
26 of 196 1 .

I d o not think I need add any further to the explanation given there.

Sir, I do not propose to elaborate on Sub-heads 25 and 26, but as regards Sub-head 27, Goodwill and Trade Mission to Burma, I am sure Honour­ able Members are aware that a Trade Mission led by the Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry left Kuala Lumpur on 24th February and returned on 2nd March, 1961. after a visit which lasted for seven days.
Accompanying the Assistant Minister on this mission were · 1 3 persons representing Malaya and an officer of this Ministry.

The mission was very successful.

the trade and industry in Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $534,8 8 1 for Head S. 7 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Mr. Speaker: I think this is a suitable time to suspend the sitting.

Sitting suspended at 1.10 p.m.

Sitting resumed at 8.30 p.m. (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) House immediately resolved itself into Committee of Supply.
As regards Sub-head 28, as is in the details given under the indicated Suh-head, the provision is required to passages and sub­ meet the salaries, overseas and sistence allowances of local experts who have been engaged to draw up the necessary constitution rules and proposed Rubber Exchange Lumpur.

The report is now ready and is being considered by the Govern­ ment.

, for the in Kuala contract conditions 1 1 15 20 JUNE 1961 1 1 16 Sir, I beg to move.
The sum of Sl.493,744 for Head S. 1 7 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $69,358 for Head S. 1 5 Head S. 19- part of the Schedule.

ordered to stand Head S. 17- The Auistaot Minister of Rural Development (fuan Haji Abdul Khalid): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the expenditure 1 7, totalling a sum of $ 1,493,744 stand part of the Schedule.
under Head the new aircraft purchased and personnel for staffing and Sir, a total sum of $ 1 ,041 ,360 is re­ the additional necessary quired for other services maintaining in 1 96 1 .

The full breakdown is given in the Supplementary This expansion is part of the Five-Year Development the big sum.

Plan.

This accounts for Supply Estimates.

Sir, I beg to move.

Enche' Zulkilee bin Muhammad (Bachok): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya hendak tanya Menteri Yang Berhormat, apa-kah maksud "Qualification itu?
Pay" Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid: Under what sub-head?

The Minister of Internal Security and Minister of the Interior (Dato' Dr. Ismail) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that Head S. 1 9, Ministry of External Affairs, $ 126,638 stand part of the Schedule.
This amount is made up of: Contributions to the United Nations $62,943 Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference and Visit of Prime Minister to Italy Representation at the Sierra Celebra- Leone Independence tions 58,870 4,825. on the basis Now, Sir, let me deal with the contri­ butions to the United Nations under sub-head 23.

As stated in Command Paper No.

26 of 1 961-please refer to page 22-the total provision of $433,529 was calculated for 1 960.
As a result of heavy mitments, the United it necessary to increase for 1 961, and a total contribution by the Federation of Malaya of $496,471 .23, instead of the estimated sum of is required and made up as $433,529, follows: of the figure com· Nations has found its expenditure Enche' Zolkilee bin Muhammad: tidak 5 1.

Kalau tidak boleh jawab pun apa.

Contribution to the United Nations Budget .. .

$321,832.44 Contribution to the United Nations Em ergency Force Special Account, 1961 .

.

.
.

.

48,667.77 Toan Haji Abdul Khalid: Mr. Spea­ ker, Sir, this is a special allowance given to officers who passed special qualifications in the army.

Contribution to the Congo Ad Hoc Account for the period July I December, 1960 125,971.02 Encbe' Zolkilee bin Muhammad: Mr. Speaker, Sir, what are the "special" qualifications?

I think the Minister not know!

does Toan Haji Abdul Khalid: I am afraid he must join the army to know what it ·is all about.
Enche' Zulkilee bin Muhammad: Sir, after all, I am not Mr. Speaker, in charge of the Ministry.

Mr. Speaker: (To Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid) You have no right to reply in such a mann er; I cannot aIIow that.

Question put, and agreed to.


and if you will amount to $496,471 .23. total up these amounts, they Sir, this is an obligatory contribution by Member Governments of the United Nations, and the scale of contribution for the Federation of Malaya is 0.17 per cent of the total Budget in respect of each of the three items.
Coming to the new sub-head 34, Prime Minister Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Con­ I must point out that it was ference, planned for the to make an official visit to Italy at the end of the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference, subsequently.

of the sub-head but it had to be cancelled title Thus although the "Visit of Prime includes 1 1 17 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1 11 8 expen­ Minister to Italy".
the estimated diture shown in the provision now sought has been incurred in connection with the Commonwealth ters' Conference Members of the Opposition interested the Delegation, to save the House, I will give the names of Mem­ b�rs of the Delegation Prime Minis­ in London only.

Since to know the composition time of this are very of : Country Planning-$2,200; and to move that they stand part of the Schedule.
Sir, as regards Head 3 1 , Minister of this is to meet reimburse­ the Interior, incurred ment to States for expenditure on Aborigine Affairs, which after Merdeka became a responsibility Federation with the requirements of the Constitu­ tion.

Government in accordance of the (i) The Honourable the Prime Minister.

(ii) Enche' Muhammad Ghazali bin Shafie, Acting Permanent Secretary.

{iii) Enche' Abdullah bin Mohd.

Salleh.

(iv) Enche' F. J. Sullivan, (v) Nik Hassan bin Abdul Rahman.
(vi) Enche' Long bin Ngah Mat Unah.

Press Secretary.

As regards Head S. 37, this concerns Personal Emoluments and the provi­ sion is required to meet the cost of revision for the staff of the Branch Presses at Johore and Kedah.

of salaries Now, I come to sub-head 35, at the Sierra Leone s. I have Representation Independence Celebration nothing to add in respect of this item, and figures of which are found on page 22 of Command Paper No.

26 of 1 96 1 .
26 of 1 96 1 .

Members of the Federation of Malaya Delegation Ambassador in Paris and the Secretary for the Federation of Malaya Embassy in Paris.

of His Majesty's consisted As regards Head S. 39, Commis­ sioner of National Registration, for $5,560, this is for the purchase of equipment for the newly established Central Citizenship Registry.
Now, as regards Head S. 40, Town the provision and Country Planning, sought is to meet expenses of the Adviser on Town Planning made available to the Federation under UNT AA arrangement.

Sir, I beg to move.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $ 126,638 for Head S. 1 9 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Question put, and agreed to.

the sums of $359,053 for Head S. 3 1 , $ 1 1,547 for Head S. 37, $ 5,560 for Head S. 39, and $ 2,200 for Head S. 40, ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
He¢ S. 29- Head S. 42- Dato' Ong Yoke Lin: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that Head S. 29 for $ 1 13,600 stand part of the Schedule.

This item of expenditure is explained in Command Paper No.

26 of 1951 .

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $ 1 13,600 for Head S. 29 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Heads S. 31, S. 37, S. 39 and S. 40- Dato' Dr. Ismail: Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission I would like to take Heads S. 3 1 , S. 37, S. 39 and S. 40 together-that the Interior-$359,053; Printing-$1 1,547; Head S. 39, Com­ missioner of National Registration­ $5 ,560; is, Head 3 1 , Minister of Head S. 37, and Head S. 40, Town and Dato' Dr. Ismail: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that Head $99,571 stand part of the Schedule.
S. 42 totalling Sir, under this Head there are two one for the purchase of a Traffic Analyser and the the disposal expenses of I think sub-head 27 sub-heads, Electronic other for surplus supplies.

is fully explained in the Treasury Memorandum, but I would like to give some explanation · been the head 26, because this has subject of a query in this House some time ago.

Sir, the Treasury gave approval for the purchase in March, 1960, but for the reasons stated in the Treasury Memorandum.
the purchase was deferred.

The Telecommunications Department assisted the Police in in regard to sub­ 1 1 19 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1 12() a suitable Traffic Analyser selecting after examining several types.

This Analyser.

which is used to detect speeding offences, has been found effective in countries in which it has been used ih reducing road accidents.

The evidence it provides is said to be accepted in the United Kingdom courts.
A set has been ordered in March, 1961 and is expected to arrive in August, 1 96 1 .

Its use will be on an experimental basis and, if it proves efficient, the purchase of further sets will be considered.

Sir, I beg to move.

dangerous game, which used to be the pastime of America.

What Ame�ca did in the Middle East-encouraging an arms race by supplying military equipment to certain countries in the Middle East-it seems little Malaya is Asia.
Malaya has doing in South-East taken on the dangerous course of starting its own arms race in South­ East Asia, and as with all arms races, can be very dangerous the consequences for this country, because the gratituous intervention of Indo-China can have great reper­ cussions, because it is intervention, it is taking sides in an armed conflict that is going on in the country of Indo-China.

We should not be surprised if tomorrow these arms boomerang upon this country.

of Malaya in the affairs Supplies.
note it is stated Enche' Tan Phock Kio: Mr. Spea­ ker, Sir, I rise to seek clarifica­ tion on Head 42, new sub-head 27, Disposal Expenses for Surplus In the explanatory a request from the that "as a result of Government of the Republic of Vietnam for surplus equipment and material it was decided that a quantity of stores left over from the Emergency for which the Federation has no further use should be disposed of free of charge," and that this sum of money is actually required .
of spares and for expenses in connec­ tion with to Vietnam."

It is also explained that the whole cost is recoverable Vietnamese Government and the expenditure equivalent credit.

My query on this is not so much on this sum of $92,571 but more on the surplus equipment that has been disposed of free of charge.

Perhaps, the Minister can his reasons for giving away though it may be surplus, free of charge.
the shipment of those stores will thus be covered by an "for the purchase explain to us equipment, from the (Dato' Dr. Ismail and Enche' K. Karam Singh rise).

Enche' K. Karam Singh (Damansara): I can speak after the Minister.

Mr. Speaker: No, it would be better for you to speak first, so that he can reply straightaway to both of you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, although the Asia.


peace in South-East Alliance Government professes peace, and although its manifesto for this country says that it wants peace and prosperity for this country, its external Plying arms to the regime policy in sup .
of Ngo Dien Diem is far from encouraging Here, again, we see an attempt by the Malayan Government to bolster a falling regime in a neighbouring country and it would be good advice to this Government to stop giving arms to unfavourable regimes which the people of that country have rejected.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the action of the Malayan Government amounts to supporting and bolstering by the force of arms a regime which has no longer any standing in South Vietnam and, in spite of what the Honourable Minister himself has so often spoken regime is on Tibet.

we find that that carrying on very repressive measures in Vietnam and that regime has denied democratic rights to its people.
As such, I would say that the action of our Government in supplying arms to the Government Ngo Dien Diem Q:amples upon ples, and this action should be condemned.

princi­ rightly all humanitarian Eoehe' K. Karam Singh: Mr. Speaker, Sir, it appears that the present ment in Malaya is playing a very Govern­ made by the two Honour· , ' observations able Members can be found in the of this House (Laughter).

proceedings Dato' Dr. Ismail: The answer to the 1 121 20 JUNE 1 961 1 122 , Question put, and agreed to.
The sum of $99,571 for Head S. 42 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Heads S. 43 and S. 45- The Minister of Works, Posts and (Dato' V. T. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg Telecommunications Sambanthan): to move, with your permission, that Head S. 43, for a sum of $1,750, and Head S. 45, for a sum of $20,000, stand part of the Schedule.

items are �elf-explana tory.

Both these and agreed to.

Question put, The sums of $1,750 for Head S. 43 for Head S. 45 ordered to and $20,000 stand part of the Schedule.
Head S. 47- The Assistant Minister of Labour (Eoche' V. Manickavasagam): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a sum of $71,520 under Head S. 47 stand part of the schedule.

The item is fully explained of 196 1 .

in Command Paper No.

26 seluroh menerusi Kesa­ dahulu-nya Perkhidmatan Pelajaran Dewasa ini di-jalankan tuan Pelajaran Dewasa bagi Persekutuan Tanah Melayu ini.
Tidak-lah saya ketahui bagaimana kejayaan atau tidak jaya-nya chara yang lama itu, tetapi nampak-nya Kementerian ini yang bertugas dalam lengkongan Pelajaran Dewasa telah memikirkan bahawa chara yang bagitu tidak sesuai pada masa ini.

Maka Kementerian ini pun mengadakan lantekan saperti yang tersebut dalam Bahagian2 I, II, III dan IV.

Dalam lantekan2 ini, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya dapati ada lantekan saperti State Organiser ia-itu dalam Item (54).
Saya nampak ada orang2 yang pada pendapat saya belum chukup kelayakan-nya telah di-lantek menjadi State Organiser bagi Pelajaran Dewasa; ada lagi lantekan yang di-lakukan peringkat Jajahan pun demikian .

.

di­ Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $71.520 for Head S. 47 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head S. 50- Tuan Baji Abdul Khalid: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the expenditure shown under Head S. 50, totalling a sum of $3,312,386 stand part of the Schedule.
This big sum is requested in view of the fact that we · have just established a in the Ministry of Rural Development called the Division of Adult Education.

to add in view of I have nothing more the fact that it is fully explained in Command Paper No.

26 of 1961. new Division Eoche' Zulki8ee bin Muhammad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Pelajaran Dewasa ada-lah satu daripada perkara yang mustahak pada ra'ayat negeri ini, dan saya sukachita ini ada membuat bahagian baham dalam perkhidmatan ini.
Tetapi, Tuan bahawa Kementerian F;;' Yang di-Pertua, ada beberapa soal yang timbul semenjak mengambil Perkhidmatan Pelajaran Dewasa.

Menurut apa yang saya tahu Kementerian ini Pendek-nya, saya tidak dapat mema­ kapada kejadian baharu 10 hari di-sampaikan hami apa-kah peringkat dan dasar serta chara pengambilan orang2 yang menjalankan tugas dalam bahagian ini dalam Kementerian ini.

Tetapi, satu hakikat saya nampak ia-itu penyokong2 Perikatan mendapat tempat di-dalam bahagian ini.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, "pileh kaseh" yang saperti ini amat-lah merbahaya.

Pernah sa-kali-saya ber­ chakap ini dalam bahagian 1 30.

Hono­ rarium for Teachers.


Di-waktu hendak melantek-ini sahaja yang telah saya, ia-itu telah di-panggil orang2 yang menjadi chalun dalam gulongan hendak mengajar Pelajaran Dewasa ini ka-satu tempat, dan apabila mereka itu sampai, maka sa-kira-nya orang dan baik dalam kedudokan politik-nya dengan orang yang atau Pengurus Bahagian District bagi Pelajaran Dewasa ini, maka di-keluar­ kan-lah borang2 dengan tidak payah (interview).
Ada pun orang2 · y di-ketahui kedudokan-nya, reka itu di-intebiu dengan halus dan dengan baik.

Akan tetapi, Tuan Yang di·Pertua.

telah ada kejadian bahawa sa-telah mengintebiu itu bertanya kapada­ sebab chara mengintebiu wasa ini tidak-lah saperti Public kapada mereka itu itu di-kenali bertanggong jawab di-intebiu itu.
maka Pelajaran De· orang yang ang tidak maka me­ di-temu-tanya • 1 123 20 JUNE 1961 1 1 24 Sa-kira-nya Kerajaan bertegang de­ akan liar­ ngan asas-nya sendiri, maka dan lah mereka itu daripada belajar, yang rugi tentu-lah kita sendiri.

Ada­ lah mustahak bagi kita menjadi ra'ayat yang benar2 pandai dalam negeri yang merdeka.

tahu ini untok saya hantarkan Services Commission, saya nampak ramai orang dalam-nya termasok guru, dan pula bertanya ia ini orang kita, kemudian guru ini pun memberi isharat.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bukan-lah dasar Kementerian.

Tetapi.

ini sudah berlaku, dan saya telah dan sedang mengumpulkan bahan berke­ naan dengan ini kapada Kementerian ini.

Tetapi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, maksud saya menye­ butkan perkara ini ia-lah supaya dapat di-kawal di-dalam Kementerian ini soal2 kelayakan dan kelulusan bagi menjalankan bahagian 1 30, dengan yang demikian terjamin-lah perjalanan dan kebaikan serta kelichinan Dewasa kapada orang2 negeri ini supaya mereka itu tahu membacha dan menulis.
Satu daripada-nya yang saya hendak menarek perhatian Kemente­ rian ini ia-lah soal mengajar orang dewasa supaya mereka tahu menulis dan membacha.
pengajaran Pelajaran tugas di-bahagian (54) dan Tuan Yang di-Pertua, negeri kita ini, amat berguna tetapi bagi me­ bagi mereka itu di-ajar bahasakebangsaan yang terutamadalam terkena penyakit tidak pandai menulis dan berbahasa bahasa Kebangsaan dengan baik ia-lah orang2 yang telah tua yang pada masa dahulu-nya tidak mendapat peluang belajar saperti orang pada masa ini.

Mereka itu dudok di­ kampong2 yang jauh.


Pada fikiran saya mustahak-lah tulisan jawi walau dengan utama-nya pun kita merasa hal ini tidak berapa hendak kita jalankan, reka itu tulisan jawi kapada mereka.

Waiau pun pada masa ini Kementerian dan bahagian ini ada berbuat demikian, tetapi di-daerah banyak orang kampong mengadu bahawa kalau hendak mengajar pela­ jaran tulisan rumi, ta' ada faedah kapada kami.
Jadi elok-lah mengutama­ kan tulisan jawi supaya mereka dapat membacha Kuran dan kitab sebab mereka itu sudah tua.

Ada pun bagi mereka yang berumor yang kita fikir­ kan mustahak di-giatkan pengetahuan dan membaiki diri boleh-lah kita pelajaran masokkan rumi supaya mereka Perjalanan tulisan pada masa ini.

Per­ kara ini ada-lah satu perkara yang dapat menarek orang kampong.
menulis itu dapat mengikut saya hal Enche' V. Veerappen: Mr. Speaker, was set that are we say here is a small sum when a recommendation Sir, I rise to speak on sub-head 24, Head S. 50 on page 25, regarding Survey on Sub-Division of Estates­ $23,000.

Sir, this compared with the· large expenditure incurred in respect of other items, but the point that I wish to question is in regard to the wisdom of this expendi­ ture.
Of course, whatever is of no use, because the money has already been spent and only approval is being sought now.

Now, why was this survey set up?

This survey up as the result of by a Committee which was established, I think, in November, 1959, and that Committee was unable to make concrete recommendations on the sub-division - of estates.

However, the point is will this survey be able to provide the - answers to the questions being sought?
In my opinion, I doubt if that can happen because-I was personally approached by one of the University boys, who was sent down to do the survey-in the first place one boy had to cover the whole of Penang, Province Wellesley and Kedah and in the second place he had to obtain information, which could only be given by the good- will of the people who wanted to give it.
Such information of smallholdings from the District it be obtained from the man who bought the estate and fragmented it- he just refused to give it.

I suggested to this boy that he should see certain of the fragmenters, who live in Penang but the fact and Province Wellesley, was that the boy tried to see them so many times they were always too busy to supply the answers.
If he went to look up the records of the District Office and the Land Office, the information would be -"" insufficient to give him the evidence he wanted.

Therefore, this survey, when completed, will be could not be obtained Office; neither could but was not able to do so­ as to the number I wonder how far jawi dan 1 125 20 JUNE 1961 1 126 able to give the answers that the Com­ sc· mittee is seeking.
3 kita hendak Mengikut Statistic 1967, Tuan Yang orang2 yang berumor 10 ber­ di-Pertua, tahun ka-atas yang tidak boleh chakap dan bertutor atau menulis surat dan membacha dalam bahasa kebangsaan tidak kurang daripada juta.

Kalau sa-kira-nya membasmikan buta huruf dalam 3 juta menusia bahasa kebangsaan tidak lewat pada tahun 1967 maka ini akan jadi satu beban yang sangat besar.

Memandang kapada perkara itu Kera­ jaan ingat tidak sendiri mesti menanggong-jawabkan perkara itu.
Dan sebab itu-lah kita telah menubohkan Pelajaran terian Luar Bandar, lebeh2 lagi sebab saya perchaya melalui Pelajaran yang Dewasa ini dengan ranchangan2 sedang di-jalankan dan dengan giat-nya yang akan di-jalankan di-bawah arahan Kementerian Bandar dapat-lah usaha-2 kita bendak membaiki nasib orang2 di-kawasan Dewasa di-bawah Kemen­ kita menchepatkan dapat tidak Kerajaan dengan giat-nya satu bahagian luar bandar.
hari ini Luar of the Committee to have a Select Committee Sir, all this dilly-dallying one and a before the report is com­ could dilly-dallying Mr. Speaker, Sir, if by the Government has taken more than one and a half years and I do not know whether it may take another half years pleted.
All this have been saved, the Government had accepted our proposal of this House: a Select Committee this House would be in a different position from that of the Committee and I say set up by the Government, in its own so because 1 5 / 61 words in Command Paper No.

has said that "it is unable to give any recommendation because of the con­ flicting it has got."

However, if a Select Com­ mittee had been established, that the compelled the evidence that this like the wanted.
I would, therefore, Minister concerned just to let us know, let this House know, how long it will take to complete the report, and whether he is going to put some more into this investigati red-herrings these persons to produce all I am sure could have and incomplete Select Committee information Committee on.

Satu perkara lagi, Tuan Yang di­ menjadi dasar menjalankan Pertua, tudohan2 pileh kaseb.

Yang Berhormat sendiri telah mengaku bahawasa-nya tidak-lah pileh Kementerian ini kaseh.
Saya berterima kaseh di-atas ingatan pun bagitu-Iah, kaseh.

Sa-kira-ny saya minta Yang Berhormat itu beri kapada Kementerian sentiasa nama2 itu.
mem­ ini, saya menunggu2 di-atas hantaran yang baik itu dan sa-benar-nya ia-itu tidak ada pileh a ada keterangan2 yang di-buat bahawa dengan wang Bachok, suka-lah Tuan Haji Khalid bin Awang Osman: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ber­ kenaan dengan perkataan oleh wakil daripada saya menyatakan kapada Persatuan yang di-untokkan Pelajaran Dewasa dan dengan Pelajaran Dewasa pada masa itu di-jalankan dengan sukarela Kerajaan berasa puas kerja2 yang di-buat oleh bati di-atas badan2 sukarela itu.
Tetapi oleh sebab Kerajaan memandang bahawa tang­ gong-jawab-nya apa yang terchatet Persekutuan, ia-itu hendak menjadikan bahasa Melayu bahasa resmi yang 1 967, tunggal sa-lewat2- nya pada tabun itu satu tugas yang pula dengan perchayaan bahawa me­ lalui Pelajaran Dewasa Kerajaan menolong orang2 di-kawasan Juar bandar hidup · menyempurnakan lam Perlembagaan sangat berat berserta dengan keadaan aman dapat ; dan damai, maka Kerajaan berasa bertanggong-jawab menjalankan Pela­ jaran2 Dewasa oleb Kerajaan sendiri.
Di-bawah 1 3 (d) berkenaan dengan melateb guru2 tinggi ia-itu dengan guru2 ini sa­ kita hendak dewasa.

ini sangat berat menerima guru2 guru2 guru2.

Berkenaan boleh2-nya yang biasa mengajar di-kelas Sebab tanggong-jawab maka kita sanggup-lah yang lulus pelajaran yang sedang menjadi guru2 di-Sekolah Kebangsaan.
bebanan ini kan usaha untok melateh guru2 dalam perkara Pelajaran tang soal pileb .kaseb itu saya napilan sebab sa-bagaimana Yang Berhormat sendiri Kementerian menjalankan sedar bahawa Luar Bandar ini tidak dasar pileh kaseh.

Memandang kapada ke­ maka kita akan menjalan­ Dewasa, tetapi ten­ saya katakan 1 127 20 JUNE 1961 1 1 28 of Malaya, and he will do his job very Jawi Berkenaan dengan.
tulisan memang-lah mengikut report Jawatan· Kuasa yang mengkaji hal-ehwal Pela­ jaran Dewasa kita mengaku-lah di­ mana2 tempat yang di-kehendaki oleh orang2 kampong itu kita boleh-lah menjalankan Pelajaran Dewasa sama ada tulisan Rumi atau tulisan Jawi kerana tujuan kita hendak menolong orang2 di-kawasan luar bandar khas· nya untok menchapai chita2 Kemen­ terian ini.
of estates, of He has tried to prove in so In reply to the Honourable Member for Seberang Selatan regarding the survey on the sub-division he has stated that he does not believe that the survey will supply the answers to the problems of the sub-division estates.

many words that this survey team will not meet with any success.

Sir, I am afraid it is still early for him to prophesy the work of this survey team.
We have confidence in the leader of the survey team, Professor Ungku Aziz of the University we feel that well.

we · know very well the good work he has done not only here but also the good work he has done overseas.

juncture to say anything man of such reputation.

It would not be fair at this against a Enche' V. Veerappeo: Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification, I did to pass any remarks on the not intend say was leader.
All that I intended to that the survey team had not the force of law to compel people to give it information wanted.

the Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid: Sir, I hope the Honourable Member will allow the survey team to complete its work.

As regard how long the survey will take, I cannot prophesy, but I am sure that will work very hard and that in the near future the report will be ready.
It is not the purpose of the Ministry to create red herring not try to create red herrings at any time before-and tha report will be ready as �oon as possible.

we will try to solve the problems as best we can.

and when the report 1s ready I say once again that s-after all, we did Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $3,31 2,386 for Head S. 50 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Heads S. 55 and S. 59- Dato' Sardoo bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, izinkan saya mengam­ bil kedua2 kepala ia-itu Kepala 59 sa-kali.

55- Saya memohon wang sa-banyak terima $10,000 di-bawah Kepala S. 55 supaya menjadi sa-bahagian dari Jadual ini.

Keterangan2-nya telah pun di-beri dalam Cm.d.


Paper 26 ia-itu wang tambahan perbelanjaan untok ongkos Pesurohjaya kerana menyiasat hal­ ehwal berkenaan dengan keadaan ekonomi Perkhidmatan Keretapi Tanah Melayu pada masa hadapan, dan saya suka mengambil peluang di­ sini kita uchapkan banyak kaseh kapada Ahli2 Pesurohjaya dan Kerajaan-nya yang telah menghantar­ nya di-bawah ranchangan Colombo Plan dan mereka telah bekerja dengan dan telah pun meng· sunggoh2-nya habiskan kerja2-nya.
Saya perchaya Ahli2 Dewan Ra'ayat telah pun menerima pertanyaan2 supaya dapat menolong Pesurohjaya ini dan juga dapat mereka memberi pandangan yang jelas kapada mereka itu sa-bagaimana keadaan2 perkhidmatan Keretapi Persekutuan melancharkan lebeh baik dan juga mendapat basil daripada akuan2-nya.
Tanah Melayu yang telah dengan perkhidmatan-nya Di-sini saya mengambil peluang menguchapkan sa-tinggF tahniah dan terima kaseh kapada mereka yang telah membantu dengan tenaga dan usaha-nya dan mudah2an Perkhid­ matan Keretapi Persekutuan Tanah Melayu akan mendapat faedah yang besar pada masa hadapan.

Marine Surveys sa-banyak $2,100.


Ini ia-lah kerana menempah atau pun retaining fee kerana membayar engi­ neer yang sekarang ini Straits Steamship Company sa-bagai part-time, yang menjaga berkenaan dengan pejabat ini di­ dalam chuti sa-lama tiga bulan.

Saya perchaya perkara ini tentu-lah terang.

kerana engineer bekerja dengan chukup � members of the Survey Team Bagitu juga di-bawah Kepala S. 59- 1 129 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1 130 Question put, and agreed to.
The sums of $10,000 for Head S. 55 and $2.1 00 for Head 59 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

order to authorise expenditure which has to be incurred before it has been by this House.

actuaIIy sanctioned Heads S. 64 and S. 65- Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that Head S. 64 for $ 19,890 and Head S. 65 for $57,000 stand part of the Schedule.

These items are explained in Com­ mand paper No.

26 of 1 96 1 and I have to add.


µothing further Enche' Liu Yoong Peng (Rawang): Dato' V. T. Sambantban: I have no make of the as to the information air-conditioners.

Encbe' V. David: Does the Minister admit ignorance of his own depart­ ment?

(Laughter).

Question put, and agreed to.

The sums of $ 1 9,890 for Head S. 64 and $57,000 for Head S. 65 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

He · .
He · .

We are The Assistant Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to speak on ad s 66- Head 64, paragraph 41, regarding the replacement of air-conditioners aware, Sir, that one Honourable Minis-lion and Broadcasting ter is the agent for Carrier air condi-Ja'afar bin Hasan Albar): Tuan tioners, and we would like to know Pengerusi, saya mohon menchadangkan whether the Minister can explain ia�itu peruntokan $70,984 di-bawah whether the air-conditioners for this purpose, under this Head, are pada jadual ini.
"Carrier" air-conditioners supplied Kepala S. 66 menjadi sa-bahagian dari­ of lnforma­ (Tuan Syed Minister Belanja yang di-kehendaki .

Enche' Chan y 000 Ono (Kampar): mana keilyataan yang ada Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we are almost kerana pe�ubohan Ke�entenan yang Kt:mentenan Pt:n�rangan coming to a close of the consideration of the Supplementary Estimates, I am · d�n Siaran Radio.

�-lama 101 .
�-lama 101 .

boleh touching on Head s. 64, sub-head 41. di-ka�kan saya baha�, 1a-1tu me'!1Jalanka1.1 keqa dan Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: n pe1abat2 yang kewa11pan mentadb1rka There is di-bawah saya itu dengan tidak ada sa-bagai- ada-lah .

n o sub-head 41, Sir!

Enche' Chan Yoon Ono: Sorry, sub-head 1 8.

I t is written here, "No extra provision is involved and the full amount has been advanced from the Contingencies Fund."
It appears to me that the explanatory note under all Heads state that .. the full amount has been advanced from the Contingencies to seek clarification from the Honour­ able Minister concerned as to the total amount that has been advanced from the Contingencies there is any balance remaining in it.

Fund and whether F:und."

I would like dan pegawai tanggongan yang bekerja dalam mempunyai kaki-tangan yang bekerja chukup masa, melainka n pegawai sambil2an Jabatan Perdana Menteri.
Maka oleh kerana memandang dan ke­ wajipan serta tugas jabatan ini sa­ makin bertambah besar dalam pembangunan ini, telah di-fikirkan supaya di-adakan dengan mempunyai pegawai2 yang lengkap supaya tugas2 dan kewajipan2 itu dapat di-jalankan sa-buah Kementerian dengan sempuma.

zaman Tuan Pengerusi, saya mohon men­ chadangkan.

Enche' Zulkiftee bin Muhammad: permintaan Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would advise the Honourable Member for Kampar to read the Constitution Proce­ dure Ordinance.
If he would take the = trouble to d� so, he would probably know what the Contingencies Fund really means.

There is nothing myste­ rious about it.

It has to be used in Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tambahan belanja Kementerian ini ada-lah agak yang lain, sebab tambah sahaja, Kementerian.

saya suka supaya sahabat Berhormat Menteri Penerangan Siaran Radio menerangkan apa-kah ganjil sadikit daripada yang lain itu minta ia hendak membuat Tuan Yang di-Pertua.
saya Yang dan and the Financial 1 13 1 20 JUNE 196 1 1 132 Ke­ Ada-kah meliputi pejabat2 yang Kementerian.

hendak membesar­ ini sa-hingga dua ini sahaja-lah maka agak terlalu chepat Pada fikiran saya, Tuan Yang di­ yang baharu ini, kedudokan ini agak2-nya pejabat2 yang akan masok ka-dalam Kementerian yang akan membolehkan menjadi sa-buah sa-mata2 Jabatan Penerangan dan Siaran Radio sahaja atau ada niat Kerajaan mengambil pejabat2 yang agak sesuai dengan tugas Kementerian ini supaya di-jadikan ini?
di-dalam Kementerian Pejabat Radio dan Film Unit.

Ini-lah tiga pejabat yang di-bawah menterian ini.

Dan dalam sadikit masa lagi, oleh kerana perkembangan2 yang sedang berlaku dalam negeri kita ini, kita berhajat hendak meluaskan per­ khidmatan Radio ia-itu dengan mem­ punyai perkhidmatan ka-luar negeri; yang sa-hingga pada inasa ini belum ada lagi.
Jadi untok kan Kementerian Pejabat Kebudayaan dan sa-bagai-nya, Pertua, sa-kira-nya saya tidak dapat hendak memberi sa­ yang hendak kita jadikan sa-buah barang pengakuan dan janji di-sini, Kementerian, melainkan Kementerian kita mengadakan sa-buah Kementerian jalankan dengan sa-berapa daya-nya dalam negeri ini, tetapi sa-kira-nya untok menjayakan Kerajaan ada mempunyai' satu wajipan2 yang di-tanggongkan chadangan, mengadakan pejabat2 yang di-bawah Kementerian Iabatan Kebudayaan yang akan ini.
mengambil berat soal kebudayaan dalam negeri ini di-bawah Kementerian Penerangan dan Siaran Radio ini tentu­ lah satu chawangan baharu yang akan membolehkan budayaan negeri ini menurut apa yang di-kehendaki ini.

Jadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kalau dua ini sahaja, saya maseh merasa benda ini kechil, dan kalau chadangan Kerajaan, maka sudah tempat-nya-lah Yang Berhormat ini di-sini.
memberikan keterangan Enche' Zulkiftee bin Muhammad: ada dalam pada oleh dasar hidup negeri Kerajaan membentok ke­ yang bertambah umpama-nya, tugas2 dan ke­ ini akan men­ ka-atas ta' di-sebutkan Dalam Anggaran Perbelanjaan .

_ Tuan Yang di-Pertua, menurut penerangan Menteri Yang Berhormat tadi ia-lah dua sahaja ia-itu dan Peon.

Tetapi agak-nya Setia-Usaha yang besar sa-kali ia-itu ia terlupa, Menteri.
ini ada peruntokan bagi sa-orang Menteri-yang kalau $ I 0 pun kita tahu makin banyak Kerajaan berbelanja--dan Penolong Menteri.
Jadi boleh-kah saya fahamkan tidak ada pada niat Kerajaan hendak melantek sa-orang Menteri, kalau tidak ada niat Kerajaan hendak melantek sa­ orang Menteri, elok-lah Kementerian ini di-bawah Jabatan Perdana Menteri sahaja, dan kalau ia hendak melantek bererti akan ada-lah sa-orang Menteri, ini Menteri dan dalam Kementerian dan Penolong Menteri Penerangan Siaran Radio yang akan menyebabkan Kementerian perkara ini di-terangkan.

ini besar.
ini besar.

Saya minta Toan Syed Ja'afar bin Hasan Albar: Kemeoterian berkenaan dengan peruntokan kapada Ahli Yang Bachok.
Sunggoh pun Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ingin men­ jelaskan yang di-minta ini Berhormat dari kita mengadakan sa-buah baharu, tetapi boleh di-katakan jawatan (post) yang ada dalam Kementerian bukan-lah jawatan baharu, kechuali jawatan Setia-Usaha bagi Kementerian ini dan satu jawatan baharu ia-itu pelayan pejabat atau pun office boy, yang lain2 itu ada-lah pindahkan daripada Jabatan Perdana Menteri dan Jabatan Penerangan dan Jabatan Radio.
jawatan yang di­ ini Tuan Syed Ja'afar Saya tidak ada hendak menambah apa2 kenyataan berkenaan dengan Kemen­ terian baharu ini.

bin Hasan Albar: Berkenaan dengan pejabat2 yang di­ ini pada hari ini sendiri yang boleh bawah Kementerian ia-lah Jabatan Penerangan sa·buah meliputi berpusat di-sini sahaja tetapi mem­ punyai pejabat2-nya di-merata (district), pejabat seluroh Tanah daerah dan negeri dan juga ia-itu di-katakan Melayu, bukan jajahan Question put, and agreed to.
The sum of $70,984 for Head S. 66 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Clauses I, 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment : read the third time and passed.
1 133 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1 134 MOTION EMPLOYEES PROVIDENT FUND­ ALLEGED MAL-ADMINISTRA­ TION Enche' V. David: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to move the motion standing in my name: "This House expresses grave concern over the mal-administration Provident Fund and calls upon the Govern­ an inquiry into the same in ment to institute the public interest.

of the Employees Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Employees to protect old age.
Unlike many Board, the adminis­ a result of inefficient and Provident Fund Ordinance was in the year 1952 to enable introduced the workers of this country to benefit when they reach European countries, this country does not have social legislation o1d-age employees.

In view of this, Sir, this Ordinance was introduced to enable workers attaining old age to receive a certain amount of money in a lump sum in order that they could live during the rest of their life.
Ever since the Employees Provident Fund was turned into a tration of the department had been muddled, as irresponsible Department.

The blame not only should be shouldered by these in­ efficient officers but shared by the Federation and the Minister responsible department.

should, in the first place, .

bear in mind that they are dealing with public funds and must be answerable and any attempt to evade responsibility can be construed as cheating the con­ tributors.
sho-.ild realise that these public moneys should be safeguarded to the contributors tape whatsoever when they have com­ of the law.

plied with the provisions it has to be also Government for that Secondly, the department The E.P.F.

department senior officers of the without any red to the public, and returned · deposited The man concerned was if there is proper machinery Department.

Mr. Liew Teck Chye.
Mr. Liew Teck Chye.

He was charged for forgery, for cheating; and for the first charge he was fined $2,000 or There arc three months' imprisonment.

nine other charges pending against him.

The reason for this first charge was a that Mr. Liew Teck Chye I am contributor's money in his name.

bringing this example for the vcrf reason that record, and to maintain a systematic documents are arranged in a systematic manner, such fraud would not have taken place.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have also been given to understand that the said employee after leaving his job in this Department, with the assistance another employee of this Department, managed to enter the Department at night and destroyed certain files and to be documents, which he considered detrimental to his own interest.

of Sir, in this House, I have previously similar to the moved another motion one which I now move.
On that occasion I asked a certain number of queries which I now state below for the Minister to reply specifically and not to evade the issue : (a) A4 / 59-Query dated 2nd Marcil, 1 959, for money spent on printing ; (b) A6/ 59-Query dated 7th April, 1 959, vide 143 I 59: Official visit to Singapore by an official of the E.P.F.

department; and (c) A 7 / 59-Query dated 1 2th May, 1 959: Usage of the E.P.F.

Van for unofficial purposes.


Sir, these three queries were raised by the Auditor but no proper reply was given to him.

I hope the Minister will clarify these three queries.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, while moving this to give certain motion, it is my duty glaring examples to this House, which wou]d. open the eyes of some of the .

Members of this House as well as the Minister concerned.
Sir, everyone in this country would have observed the charges brought against an Accountant in the Employees Provident Fund Coming to the other part, Sir, you will undoubtedly be convinced, one way or the other, that both the Employees Provident Fund system and the persons operating it would appear .the to be at fault, with the result that poor contributors system is at fault because it is unable to trace membership card numbers file numbers.
I wonder what has happened to the Contributor8 Index For.m E.P.F.

4 to be completed by a are suffering.

The or �-:- .­ -' 1 135 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1 13 6 vide Rule 5 (b)?

Is the contributor Board honestly functioning?

If so, the persons operating it appear to be at numbers the contributors' fault.

are traceable through their forms provided they have been indexed alphabetically.
because A letter dated 18th November, 1960, it with the pre· ence, resulting by the name of sent to one contributor Sinnadurai, No.

8 12335, bears no the E.P.F., and reference number of on receipt of the reply it is therefore not easy to associate in what vious correspond is done by the right hand in the E.P.F.

the left hand does not know.

Therefore the reply is, "No trace, unable to trace".

and that being so, the poor possess all contributors numbers for they the E.P.F.
reference are at the mercy of an inefficient of an army of Department, consisting staff.

should readily E.P.F.

in the payment made to the included member by the E.P.F.

office when he is to lose withdrew his dues.

Who these $ 1 6 ?

I would like to quote another instance: contributor No.

1414597, Teh Ah Kok's Return of Payment on 24th November, 1959, No.

8751 of fresh under registered warrant-reminder was on 7th January, 1960, under registration January, asked why was there delay ment.
Does it take two months to clear this matter?

1960, Labour Officer, Muar, 8758.

On 1 8th in settle­ Over-payments had been rather heavy.

have been kind enough Some employers to collect excessive payments from employees and refund the same to the E.P.F.

times the E.P.F.

At certain · the recovery.

officers had to go for There were instances could not afford to refund over-pay­ ment in one lump sum, ferred repayment month.
and they pre­ by $2 to $5 per when members Mr. Speaker, Sir, certain employers should to file or nearest relative.

or otherwise, make registering No.

7-1203/59, money as a nomination should have become invalid It is only fair for a husband, nominate their employer bad witnessed through ignorance, employees after the same employer the thumb impressions of a member or members.

Such procedure not have, in the first instance, been accepted case.
Later, when the member dies the nomination and payment should have been made to the next-of-kin According was initially paid to the employer.

Another file No.

7-1 5 1 6 / 59 shaped likewise.

wife, parents, brothers to receive death and not the employer.

tributor and $ 139.40 was paid to the nominee.

Estate, The Manager of the Lima-Belas & Co., Ltd.) wrote Slim River (Socfin saying that the amount ought to have been $2,760 over and not the figure of $139.40.
After the death of a member such very vast difference should not be left unnoticed.

is received; an item for cular schedule $ 1 6 under account 59; the column was by the em· cancelled ployer.

The particular employer did not remit the amount of $16.

Instead of this, this amount of $ 1 6 was etc., and sisters, a contributor's money of account No.

2 12338 died after his A con­ and initialled A parti­ simple applies for -0f payments a contributor does not possess and effect payment .
There had been cases Mr. Speaker, Sir, the number of this references above will enlighten House and bring home the fact that the E.P.F.

Department and that a proper system of accounting it is not in a position to trace out records immediately withdrawal where contributors for months.

At times a contributor intending to leave Malaya for with no more intention made an application cation is not dealt with until the minute when the contributor to leave in a couple of days.
As a result of this, the contributor for which he to cancel bis ship passage has to pay a compensation.

of returning has and such an appli· last is about were made to wait is forced good that the E.P.F.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, not only myself in the funds of in controlling but every member of the this Chamber will bear this House would state is inefficient the public, public outside me out on the question in the E.P.F.

Department.
Department.

to quote a press report by a writer from Ipoh who says: I would like of inefficiency "On 17th September, 1%0, a contributor in Ipoh was given an incorrect statement of his account showing a shortage of $120.

1137 20 JUNE 1961 1138 He pointed out the error.

The E.P.F.

replied admitting the fault and promising to remedy the situation.

needs to be clarified and brought to light and when .

the Minister concerned replies, the amount in the Suspense Account.
I hope he will do so and state Twelve months later the contributor After a lapse of another no definite reply, two months later, received another statement with the same error.

He wrote again and this time he was told that bis case would be investigated.

Receiving he sent a reminder.

two months he was given a detailed of his account from which it was clear that his contributions were not included in the year 1 95 9 accounts.
The dissatisfied he should overlooks his contributions a certain loss of interest.

In reply, the E.P.F.

put up another statement to almost identical the previous one but with an additional $3.07 for interest.

that not be made to suffer if the Board for three months in 1 959 in 1958 entailing statement contributor pointed out The same contributor also incurred dis­ appointment in the matter of nomination after having raised the point on several occasions.
terms was he provided with the necessary information.

Not until he exploded in strong Now the complainant in question is English-educated and a typical fighting cock­ as stated in the Press, Sir-but the majority of the contributors and everyone knows what hardship the Board had caused them.

are not English-educated paper was pasted on and there was n o In the initial stages of the Fund large cards were used-for the years 1952 to 1957-for crediting accounts.
In 1958 a white to each of the cards guarantee that i t would stick there Some of the slips of permanently.

paper came off due to handling.

Though most of these slips of paper regain their original places.

it cannot be confirmed at this stage that 100 per slips of white paper went cent of these Later back to the original pastings.

on the accounts of individuals were transferred to Power-Samas cards.
We cannot confirm at this stage that such accounts are correct unless each card has been checked and audited by the staff concerned certifying that they are correctly transferred, initialling the cards are checked card by card errors are sure to occur and the contri­ butors will suffer are incorrect due the cards accordingly.

Unless if their accounts to the transfer.

and the staff (Sd.)

Mr. Lee Kim Kee, lpoh."


Mr. Speaker, Sir, it goes beyond doubt to show that at the moment the Employees' Provident Fund Depart­ ment is inefficient in the handling of public funds.

Further, there is the Suspense Account in the E.P.F., and I must now acquaint you with the Suspense Account of the Fund.
Sup­ pose, a piece-work contractor has contributed, say $3,000 from Pahang i n 1953, but due to certain irregularities of remittance, in the relevant schedule the whole or part of the amount is thrown into the Suspense Account and the employer is queried.

Thereafter, it may so happen that the contractor leaves Pahang for another place and his current address may not be known or obtainable; and the result is that the contributors affected in this Suspense Account stand to lose.
An employer may make a mistake by giving an i ncorrect contributor's rect salary or some other mistake, and this account has also the chance of going into the Suspense Account it can be cleared.

There is a lot of money in the Suspense Account which number, incor­ until Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government On has declared that four per cent interest will be given to the contributors.
the 1st January, 1960, if a contributor had $2,000 to his credit, at the end of 1960--that is 31st December, 1960- he only receives interest of $2,000 and not for the additional amount of $100 contributed year 1960.

For this, if the Minister wants reference, I quote the example of contributor No.

794919 .

.

.

.

.

.

for the amount for the .

Mr. Speaker: I do not think that is necessary at all.
Enche' V. David: I am forced to do Minister may say that so, because the I am telling a lie and making allega­ tions without fou ndation.

By giving the reference, it will enable him to look up the files.

Not only this contributor h3S suffered a loss but all butors who have contributed 1st January, 1960, to the 3 1st December, 1960.

They were not given their due interest the contri· of four per cent.
from the 1 139 20 JUNE 1961 1 1 40 in order to restore public Mr. Speaker, Sir, by the various entire given to this House, it is references simple and straightforward that the Government should regularise the situation, confidence in the Employees' Provident Fund.

If the Government ignores such a situation, the Department, alternative grow outside this Chamber.

which is growing within there is no other but for repercussions to safeguarded.
bers were adequately In the course of his speech, which I do not intend either to paraphrase or repeat, he gave, among other things, a broad picture of the organi­ sation of the Board of the Fund, as a result of by the House.

scope and which that motion was rejected Sir, if the Minister wants, I can quote instances and references and short-pay­ been made which still the additional where overpayments ments had Employees' Provident has not been able to trace all these defects and to regularise position.
the entire Fund Department Sir, finally, in moving this motion, I humbly request this House to view this matter seriously and to set up an inquiry, in order to regularise situation moment.

Thank you.

the at the which is deteriorating Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to second the motion, reser­ ving the Sitting right to speak later.
suspended at 10.08 p.m. Today, nine months later, a motion period to Member is grounds have Member, but, as far as I in almost exactly similar terms has again been put forward by the same Honourable know, no additional arisen in the intervening justify such a motion.

One cannot help feeling that the Honourable not so much motivated public duty some cheap publicity wasting the valuable In this connection bers will be interested the Honourable behaved towards the E.P.F.
when he was the Secretary of the National Union of Factory and General Workers many years· ago.

This Union .

.

.

.

at the cost of time of this House.

Honourable Mem­ as by a desire to obtain Mover of this motion by a sense of to know how Sitting resumed at 10.26 p.m. Mr. Speaker: The debate on the motion moved by Enche' V. David Member resumes.

If no Honourable wishes to speak, I shall put the ques- -tion.

Enche' V. David: I must reply, Sir.

SoME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: No­ body has spoken!


Enche' V. David: I must speak.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the motion.

The motion raises the same issues as the motion moved by the Honourable Member and debated ·in this House on 14th September last replying to that motion, colleague, the Deputy Prime Minister, expressed his confidence in the management of the Fund by the Board and in the precautions provided to of mem- ensure that the contributions year.
When my Honourable Enche' V. David: Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order-Standing Order 36 ( 1 ).

It is irrelevant.

was banned.

(To Enche' Tan Siew Sin) If you want to debate this on a substan­ tive motion, I The N.U.F.G.W.

am prepared to debate it.

Mr. Speaker: (To Enche' V. David) to the addressed All remarks should be Speaker.

You must wait until the speaker gives way when it is on a point of clarification.

Sin) May I know how is to the motion before (To Enche' Tan Siew that relevant the House?
Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Sir, this cerns the relation between the Union and the E.P.F., and I am coming to the point.

con­ Mr. Speaker: The motion before the House is about the mal-administration of the Fund.

Is your point related that?

to Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I can assure you, Sir, that what I am going to say is extremely relevant to the motion.

, _ , This Union .

.. 1 14 1 20 JUNE 196 1 1 142 Enche' V. David: On a point of Mr. Speaker: Has it got to do any- order, Sir.
I still insist that it is not thing with the relevant to the motion.

Fund?

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Very much Enche' Tan Siew Sin: (To Enche' V. David) What are you frightened of?

so, Sir.

Enche' V. David: I am not frightened.

I did not run away from my place to another place miles away!

Mr. Speaker: (To Enche' Tan Siew Sin) Can you show me how is that You have not to this motion?

relevant House how is that related to told the the motion.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Sir, this in fact concerns the E.P.F.
and the E.P.F.

has got some relations with this Union.

Mr. Speaker: Please proceed.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: This Union and employed a had been in existence, number of persons since 1 955, but had never been E.P.F.

contributions paid.

It was only in December, 1 957- this two years later-that more than default on the part of its Secretary was discovered.

add, was the Honourable motion.

I need hardly mover of the The Secretary, Mr. Speaker: Has it got Fund?
thing with the to do any­ Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Yes, Sir, very Enche' V. David: On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

It was not found by the E.P.F.

It was disclosed by the Secretary E.P.F.

Board.

of the Union to the much so.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: That .amount Enche' V. David: Sir, on a point of to the order, has it any attachment motion which I have moved-mal­ administration of the E.P.F.?

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Very much so.


Mr. Speaker: (To Enche' V. David) The Minister thing to do with this motion.

has said that it has some­ of arrears was over $5,000.

Mr. Speaker: (To Enche' V. David) you must under the Standing Orders.

On a point of clarification, wait until the speaker sits down.

It is laid down If the speaker does not sit cannot have your chance on a point of order.

This has been in explained this House.

You cannot simply say whatever you like.


You must wait until the speaker gives way, down you to talk except by me many, many times - whatsoever why a union Enche' Tan Phock Kin: May I say something on this, Sir?

The motion, as you see, concerns the E.P.F.

and I see no reason should be brought into this-just as should not be brought any individuals into this at all.

This is a case concerning with the E.P.F.


and I submit that even of the Honourable the the assurance Minister of Finance, there is no relevance relevance reason why he should continue intro­ ducing it.

at all.

The Union has no to the motion, and I see no Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order-Standing Order 36 (1).
The Union concerned was banned about three years point at issue is mal-administration existing for a ruling that if what the Minister is going to say has no relevance to mal-administration, from mentioning be prevented that happened three years ago.

in regard then he should now in the E.P.F., ago.

But the anything and I ask Mr. Speaker: (To Enche' Tan Siew Mr. Speakei:: (To Enche' Tan Siew, Sin) You should not introduce which are not relevant.

I will allow you and I am prepared to accept it.


But I have not heard what the difficulty.

you to say-that is Sin) My ruling is this: if the point you raise has anything to do with the motion before the House then you can it; if it is not so, then I talk about cannot allow you to continue.

If it is relevant, things Enche' Tan Siew Sin: That is the Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Sir, I am point.

I am not given a chance to speak.


talking about the E.P.F., and the 1 143 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1 144 amount of arrears from the Union was over $5,000 and 25 employees were It is unnecessary .

involved.

Eoche' V. David: On a point of order, Sir.

Dato' Dr. Ismail: Stop interrupting !

Enche' V. David: On a point of order, Sir.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: What Order?

Enche' V. David: Standing Order 36 (1).

Mr. Speaker: Let us hear what he has got to say.


Enche' V. David: The charges are made on mat-administration, and this Union has nothing to .

do with administration.

Repeatedly .

· .

.

.

mal­ Dato' Dr. Ismail: Sir, on a point of is the point of order that order.

What he is talking about?

Mr. Speaker: what he has got to say.


36 ( I ) Let me hear Enche' Tan Siew Sin: The reason point as particular why I regard this the Honourable relevant is because mover of the motion expatiated at very great length on the cheating which has occurred in the E.P.F.

and the mal­ administration which has resulted thereby.

Enche' V. David: On a point of order, again, Sir.

Is the Honourable the show contempt of Minister trying to the ruling by overruling of the Chair?
the decision Mr. Speaker: There have been too many interruptions now.

If these inter­ ruptions continue, meeting.

I I shall have the power to do that.

suspend the Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I am going to prove, Sir, that if there is any cheating the Honourable the of the E.P.F., mover is the biggest cheat of all, and that is why .

.

.

.

Enche' V. David : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order, that is personal.

I say that the Honourable is a rogue.

the Minister HONOURABLE MEMBERS : Withdraw!


Enche' V. David: Consequent have been made to the references N.U.F.G.W.

which the picture of of the funds of the E.P.F.

It is, therefore, quite irrelevant.

does not come into the mat-administration Withdraw!

draw that first.

Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: you had already given a ruling, Sir.

I thought I have been told that to do with the Fund, to the Mr. Speaker: this has something in which case it is quite relevant motion.
As long as it is related to the Fund, it is relevant is my ruling.

If it has nothing to do with the Fund, then it is out of order.

to the motion.

That Enche' V. David: My contention is that it has nothing to do with the Fund.

My motion is on the mat-administration of the E.P.F.

the word Mr. Speaker: · Sin) I think you had Please proceed on another point.

(To Enche' Tan Siew better stop that.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: The reason why I said that this is relevant .

.

.

.
.

.

.

Enche' K. Karam Singh: You with­ Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I can prove it.

Enche' V. David: I can prove it too.

I say that the Minister is a rogue.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Shut up !

Shut up!

Enche' V. David: You shut up I Mr. Speaker: Order!

order!

(To Enche' Tan Siew Sin) that the Honourable Member is a rogue.

You cannot say Enche' Tan Siew "rogue", Sir.

Mr. Speaker: Sin: I did not utter Or even "cheat"­ you cannot say that.

Please proceed.
Please proceed.

Enche' K. Karam Singh: We want that word to be withdrawn, Sir.

Mr. Speaker: Please proceed.

Enche' V. David: That means that the Honourable Minister is overruling Sir.

your decision, Enche' Tan Siew Sin: It is unneces­ sary to add that the Honourable mover 1 145 20 JUNE 1 96 1 1 146 of this motion was the officer sible for seeing that things were properly done.

respon­ Encbe' V. David: On a point of order, Sir.


What has my being an officer got to do with the mat-adminis­ tration of the E.P.F.

Board?

My motion is entirely Honourable the Minister a different .

.

.

.

The issue.

to be the officer.

This Enche' V. David: Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order on a point of order-Standing 36 (1).

It is an issue of the N.U.F.G.W.

and I happened has nothing to if he wants to debate it, he can bring motion, and I can reply.
a substantive Or we can have it outside, and I issue a challenge to fight an election with me.

But do with the motion.

to him to resign (Enche' Tan Siew Sin rises).

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Boo!

Mr. Speaker: I cannot allow two Members to stand at the same time.

Mr. Speaker: Order!

Order!

Encbe' V. David: Sir, if the Honour­ able the Minister wants to move a motion on the N.U.F.G.W., debate that at length in this House, and I am prepared But this a different is entirely to answer.

issue.
issue.

we can Mr. Speaker: I have already said that Enche' Tan Siew Sin: It is also i.e.

to note that his victims, interesting his own employees, are the very people .

.

.

.

Enche' V. David: On a point of to allow him order, Sir.

Are you going to speak on that again?

if that has got nothing to do with the Fund.

the Minister out in this debate.

bring this a personal matter against charge of that Fund alone, not be debated.

in charge shall not If it is the officer in That is my ruling .

.

.
.

.

it should Mr. Speaker: (To Enche' Tan Siew that Sin) You should not continue subject, because it has nothing to do with the connection the Fund at the present time-not before.

E.P.F.

The motion is in of with the administration Encbe' Tan Siew Sin: To his credit, .

.

.

.

the liability Sir, he admitted Enche' V. David: Sir, he is repeating the same thing.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I am not repeating.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: It is also i.e.

to note that his victims.


interesting are the very his own employees.

people for whose welfare he has so often expressed concern.

the most touching Mr. Speaker: He has not done that.

Enche' Tan Phock Kin: On a point If he does that, I am going to stop him.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: To his credit, and offered to pay these arrears and managed to pay the sum of $229 out of a total of over $5,000 i.e.

less than 5 Sir.
less than 5 Sir.

he admitted the liability promptly by instalments princely liability per cent of the amount due in March, 1 958.

Honourable Members will pro­ bably have guessed, guessed aright, was ever recovered, employees nothing credited must say that I am full of admiration for the effrontery to charge mal-administtation in a body - -which he himself has defrauded.

It is and they will have that no further money therefore had practically to their accounts.
of a man who dares and the 25 I also interesting (Laughter) .

.

.

.

to note that his victims points of order of irrelevancy and.

in of order, again Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Many speakers have raised on the question spite of your ruling, Sir, the rable the Minister in speaking has spoken long quite clear that what he has spoken has nothing motion under debate.

to do whatsoever with the of Finance persists enough, and it is on the same terms.

He Honou­ HONOURABLE MEMBERS: What point of order?


Mr. Speaker: s.o.

36 (1).

Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Sir, you have made a ruling, and I am afraid he has abused the privilege given to him to speak by telling us a falsehood.

by informing this House and informing you as Speaker that what he has got 1 147 20 JUNE 1961 1 148 .

Unless it is irrelevant to say with regard to this particular subject is relevant, when he knows full well that and until, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

you take this matter up very firmly.


I am afraid a person like the Honourable the Minister of Finance-I am rather inclined to borrow his words by etc .• as he referring usually refers to us, bot I am afraid even then I cannot force myself to descend to his level .

.

.

to his up-bringing, .

is relevant to the mal-administration the motion.

but if it does not concern the mal-administration then it is not relevant.

ruling.

It is quite clear, .

and I do not see how it can be interpreted other­ wise.
of the E.P.F., That is my Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Coming back.

Sir.

to the Deputy Prime Minister's speech of last September, I would like to say that I fully endorse the assurances given by my colleague then, events have shown that that confidence was not misplaced, that the audit report on the Fund's accounts for 1 959 is satisfactory.

in Mr. Speaker: You have been talking and subsequent too long on this point.
Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Sir, I have to be a bit long in order to clarify , so that you will what I have to say be clear in your mind as to what I am driving at.

In the light of what I have said, Sir, I would urge you to make a firm decision on this; otherwise we no this side to move a substantive of the House may be forced motion.

Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: May I mention something on this point, The Honourable the mentioned .

.

.

.

Minister just now Sir?


With regard to the detection of defal­ cations by members of the staff, it should be borne in.

mind that dishonesty of the staff cannot individual members be entirely prevented, and sound management must aim to ensure that such misdemeanours are brought to light at an early date, and of the Fund is most satisfactory.

in this particular regard the record by I should like to add, Sir, that the Fund has over one million contributors .
Enche' V. David: On what point of, and when one is dealing with such a order is he speaking now?

large number of cases it is inevitable that now and again there are defalca- Mr. Speaker: He has a right to tions.

It is inevitable that now and speak now on the point or order.

again there will be over-payments or Minister of Finance Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: I am by speaking on the point mentioned the previous Member-it is that the Honourable the had been irrelevant.
To understand the whole thing about the E.P.F .• one must get the whole picture.

You line and cannot draw a very narrow say, "This is where you walk".

If you are going to understand about the as a whole, you mal-administration a fairly comprehen­ have got to have sive picture, and I feel that my colleague is quite right in what he is saying.

Mr. Speaker: I am not concerned with the E.P.F.

as a whole at all.
as a whole at all.

This motion as it stands now before the House is in respect of the mal-adminis­ tration of the Fund.

That is what I am concerned with and that is before the House.

Anything concerning the matter under-payments, but I suggest, Sir, that it is far less reprehensible employer to overpay faith than to defraud one's employees as has been done by the Honourable Member for Bungsar.

for an in genuine good Enche' V. David: On a point of order, it is still irrelevant, Sir.
(Laughter) tiate that?

Can the Minister substan­ Mr. Speaker: Please proceed.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: When one is one million accounts, dealing with over as I have said already.

it is impos­ sible to prevent any kind of defalcation especially all sorts of individuals, and, as I have already shown, even when we are dealing with a man with , .

such a high sense of duty as the Honourable Mover of the motion when one is dealing with good and bad.

• .

.

.
• .

.

.

t I 1 149 20 JUNE 1961 1 150 Enche' K. Karam Singh: On a point of order-Order 36 "No reference shall be (9).

It says : made in any debate to the conduct or character of any Member of Parliament than conduct in the capacity of Member of Parliament or public servant, as the case may be."

or of any public servant, other And since the Honourable mover of this motion is now only a Member of Parliament any other sense, the Minister is entirely irrelevant and I ask the Chair to rule him out of order.
and not a public servant in Mr. Speaker: I rule you out of order The mover of· this motion (Laughter).

himself has been talking on this in his motion and it is quite in order for the Minister to say.

and bad employers.

It is inevitable that be made, sometimes in mistakes will good faith and sometimes in not such good faith; and when one considers the quality of the human material with which one has to deal, it is not sur­ prising that once in a way slips could be made.
When one considers that even in the case of the Honourable mover of the motion, whom I have no hesitation impelled by a high sense of and honour (Laughter), it so difficult to extract what is due on account of his employees from such a man, is it surprising, Sir, that we should find it even more difficult to deal with people who are of far less undoubted integrity?

(Applause).
(Applause).

public duty when one finds in describing as a man Enche' Tan Siew Sin: As I am trying to the Honourable mover, to point out we are dealing with over one million contributors.

That also are dealing with over one million employees.

means that we Enche' K. Karam Singh: Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the same point of order-S.O.
36 (9)-1 would ask a ruling from the Chair as to whether it is permissible for the Honourable Minister to refer to the conduct of any Member of Parliament contrary to sub-section clearly, (9) which says "No reference shall be made in any debate or character of any Member to the conduct of Parliament than conduct in the capacity of Member of Parliament .

or of any public .

.

."

servant, other In this case "other than conduct in the capacity of Member of Parliament".
as to I would ask for your ruling whether the Minister can go on making .allegations in the other than to "conduct capacity of Member of Parliament"?

Mr. Speaker: I think he is quite in -0rder-quite relevant.

Please proceed.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: As I have said, over one mil­ , which means we are Sir, we are dealing with lion contributors ·dealing with over one million em­ ployees-in fact it is far more than one million, for as a third party we are - <lealing with over one million em­ "- �- ployers.
When you are dealing with such a large number of people, it is inevitable that you get good employers detail countries.

fonds in other will, I am sure, been increased to 4 per I do not propose to deal in with the finances of the Fund as the accounts are laid before Honourable Members annually together With the comments of the Auditor-General thereon.
I should, however, like to the remind Honourable Members that rate of interest credited to members' accounts has cent per annum, a rate which compares most favourably with that paid by State·provident Honourable Members agree that such a rate of interest has only been possible as a result of prudent management of the Fund since its inception.

The Honourable Member for Bungsar attacked the Government for crediting interest on opening balances.
He alleges that this system of crediting interest is unfair to the employees as contributors, that this system would would get less interest than the case if interest were credited closing balances.

He has obviously forgotten that this proposal was approved by the House some time and is in fact embodied in current legislation.
When this proposal was put before this House, it was approved and not a single word of unanimously protest was raised against it then and the Honourable Member himself in the sense mean they would be on ago, it.

I cannot; therefore, approved of understand how he can have the it when impertinence he approved of it, when he himself to protest against 1 15 1 20 JUNE 1961 1 152 Enche' V. David: I don't have employees.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Your old union's.

(Laughter).

-.

f 1 which credited to accounts.


The procedures and inaccurate contribution.

accounts when the necessary The Honourable Member has drawn attention to the delay in posting credits to individual of the Fund are such as will ensure that contribution s are only individual forms are completed fully and accura­ tely by the employers concerned.
Unfortunately, many employers still make incomplete returns to the Fund, which make it impractic­ able to identify immediately account should be credited with a Every effort �s particular being made to reduce the size difficult problem, entirely eliminated complete the necessary returns fully and accurately-and reason why we must have a suspense account.

There is no mystery about this account, but it is obviously desir-.
·­ able that monies, the final destiny of which we are not absolutely certain, should be credited to the suspense account instead of being credited to an account which may prove to be wrong, and having been wrongly credited to rectify it on a later inyestigation with all the attendant re-postings but it .

cannot be until all employers trouble of subsequent and transfers of that, Sir, is account.

of this the It is not true to debate it.


A� I already embodied had an opportunity Sir, this is have said, in the present legislation.

to say that the employees will lose thereby, because if interest were credited on closing balances the rate of interest will be less in order to make up Jar the greater a�ount on which interest has to be credited.

In the long run, therefore, the effect will be exactly the same in so far as the employees are concerned.
English, to the Fund, and if the I should say once again that I have full confidence in the Board and its management of the Fund and am, therefore, satisfied that there is no need whatsoever to carry out a public inquiry into these matters.
I can assure the Honourable Member for Bungsar that every effort is made to rectify the legitimate grievances of individual members of the Honourable Member wishes to assist any particular member of the Fund, I suggest that he writes in the first in intelligible instance, Manager of the Fund and, should he fail to obtain satisfaction, personally, raising general allegations management in this House, without a single shred of supporting evidence.
readily concede, Sir, that writing either to the Manager· of the Fund or to me does not secure for the Honourable Member concerned the maximum pub­ licity for himself .which he is so anxious to obtain.

If, however, he genuinely desires to take care of .

the interests of individual there is no better way of helping them-and it is a bound to bring immediate and effective results, even in the case of his own employees.
rather than continually method which is contributors, to me of mis­ I Mr. Speaker: The time is up.

Are you going to be long?

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I have not finished yet-I will continue tomorrow, Sir.

Sitting adjourned ·at 11 p.m. 14464-700-1 1-S-62.

.--...