Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698136570091.pdf (Malaysia)
Volume I No.
17 15th October, Thursday 1964 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) OFFICIAL REPORT FIRST SESSION OF THE SECOND PARLIAMENT OF MALAYSIA CONTENTS ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS [Col. 2281) THE SUPPLEMENTARY SUPPLY (1964) BILL [Col. 2285) ADJOURNMENT SPEECH: Inadequate [Col. 2379] and poor condition of roads, Kuala Lumpur DI-CHETAK DI·JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH MOHAMED BIN ABDULLAH, PEMANGKU PENCHETAK KERAJAAN KUALA LUMPUR 1965 M ALAYSIA DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report First Session of the Second Dewan Ra'ayat Thursday, 15th October, 1964 The House met at Ten o'clock a.m.
PRESENT : The Honourable Mr Speaker, TUAN SYED EsA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., s.M.J., P.I.S.

the Prime Minister, of Youth, Culture PuTRA AL-HAJ, K.O.M.

(Kuala Kedah).

Minister and Sports, Y.T.M.

TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN of External Affairs and Minister of Home Affairs and Minister the Minister DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL (Johar Timar).

RAHMAN, P.M.N.

of Justice, the Minister (Melaka Tengah).

of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. the Minister DATO' v. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N.
(Sungei of Works, Posts and Telecommunicatio Siput).

ns, the Minister JUBIR, P.M.N.

(Pontian of Transport, Utara).

DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI the Minister ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR JOHAR!

(Kedah Tengah).

of Agriculture and Co-operatives, the Minister (Kuala Pilah).

of Health, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN the Minister HAJI TALIB (Kuantan).

of Education, ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan).
the Minister for KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT ALI KHAN, J.M.N., J.P. (Batang Padang).

Welfare Services, HAMID TUAN HAJI ABDUL the Minister and Housing, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH, P.J.K.

(Ulu Selangor) for Local Government .

the Minister ANAK BARIENG, P.M.N., P.D.K.

(Sarawak).

for Sarawak Affairs, DATO' TEMENGGONG JuGAH the Minister J.M.N., P.J.K.

(Klang).

of Labour, ENCHE' v. MANICKAVASAGAM, the Minister ENCHE' SENU BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Kubang Pasu Barat).
and Broadcasting, of Information the Minister of Lands and Mines, TUAN HAJI M oHD.

GHAZALI BIN HAJI JAW!

(Ulu Perak).

2275 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2276 The Honourable without Portfolio, ENCHE' PETER Lo Su YIN the Minister (Sabah).

the Assistant and Assistant BIN y A'KUB (Sarawak).

Minister Minister of National of Justice, and Rural Development ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN Minister Minister ves, and Co-operati of Agriculture the Assistant ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN BULON (Bagan Datoh).
of Youth, Culture the Assistant ENGKU M UHSEIN BIN ABDUL KADIR (Trengganu Tengah).

of Education, the Assistant A.M.N., P.J.K.

ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N.

(Melaka Utara).

ENCHE' ABDUL KARIM BIN ABU, A.M.N.

(Melaka Selatan) Minister (Sepang).

ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, and Sports.

.

WAN ABDUL KADIR BIN ISMAIL (Kuala Trengganu ENCHE' ABDUL RAHIM ISHAK (Singapor e).

w AN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU TUANKU BUJANG (Sarawak).

TUAN HAJI ABDUL RASHID BIN HAJI JAIS (Sabah).

Utara).
Utara).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN, K.M.N., P.J.K.

(Krian Laut).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HUSSIN (Lipis).

ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN GuL AHMAD M IANJI (Pasir Mas DATO' ABDULLAH BIN ABDULRAHMAN, Dato' Bijaya di-Raja (Kuala Trengganu Selatan).

Hulu).

Y.A.M.

TUNKU ABDULLAH IBNI AL-MARHUM TUANKU ABDUL RAHMAN, P.P.T.

(Rawang).

.

Utara).

Hilir).

Utara).

TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD.

SALLER, A.M.N., S.M.J., P.1.s.

(Segamat ENCHE' ABU BAKAR BIN HAMZAH (Bachok).


TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kelantan ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N.

(Muar Utara).

TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID (Seberang O.K.K.

DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

DR AWANG BIN HASSAN, s.M.J.

(Muar Selatan) ENCHE' Aziz BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).

ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG (Sarawak).

PENGARAH BANYANG ANAK JANTING (Sarawak).

ENCHE' CHAN SEONG YOON (Setapak).

ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).

.


ENCHE' CHEN WING SuM (Damansara) ENCHE' CHIA CHIN SHIN (Sarawak) ENCHE' FRANCIS CHIA NYUK TONG (Sabah).

ENCHE' CHIA THYE PoH (Singapore) ENCHE' CHIN FoON (Ulu Kinta).

ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK T ANGKUN (Sarawak).

DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI ABDUL MAJID (Johor Bahm Timor).

DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI (Jitra-Padang Terap).

HASHIM, P.M.N.

.

.

2277 1 5 OCTOBER 1964 2278 The Honourable ENCHE' s. FAZUL RAHMAN, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).


ENCHE' GANING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah).

ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N.

(Penang Utara).

ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N.

(Kapar).

ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD.

YuNus, A.M.N., J.P. (Kulim Utara).

ENCHE' HANAFIAH BIN HUSSAIN, A.M.N.

(Jerai).

ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Baling).

w AN HASSAN BIN w AN DAUD (Tum pat).

ENCHE' STANLEY Ho NGUN KHIU, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN To' MuDA HASSAN, A.M.N.

(Raub).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN MOHD.


NoORDIN, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Parit).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN SULAIMAN (Ulu Kelantan).

TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu).

ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah).

ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan).

PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN (Sarawak).

ENCHE' KAM WOON WAH, J.P. (Sitiawan).

ENCHE' KHOO PENG LOONG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' Kow KEE SENG (Singapore).

ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak).


ENCHE' LEE KUAN YEW (Singapore).

ENCHE' LEE SAN CHOON, K.M.N.

(Segamat Selatan).

ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim).

ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' LING BENG Srnw (Sarawak).

DR LIM CHONG Eu (Tanjong).

ENCHE' LIM HUAN BOON (Singapore).

ENCHE' LIM KEAN Srnw (Dato Kramat).

ENCHE' LIM PEE HUNG (Alor Star).

DR MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMAD (Kota Star Selatan).

ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson).

ENCHE' JoE MANJAJI (Sabah).


DATO' DR HAJI M EGAT KHAS, D.P.M.P., J.P., P.J.K.

(Kuala Kangsar).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ORANG TUA MOHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHD.

DAUD BIN ABDUL SAMAD (Besut).

ENCHE' MOHAMED IDRIS BIN M ATSIL, J.M.N., P.J.K., J.P. (Jelebu-Jempol).

ENCHE' MOHD.

TAHIR BIN ABDUL MAJID, S.M.S., P.J.K.

(Kuala Langat).

ENCHE' MOHAMED YusoF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N.

(Temerloh).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ZAHIR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Sungei Patani).


2279 1 5 OCTOBER 1964 2280 The Honourable WAN MoKHTAR BIN AHMAD (Kemaman).

TUAN HAJI MoKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan).

ENCHE' MUHAMMAD FAKHRUDDIN BIN HAJI ABDULLAH (Pasir Mas Hilir).

TuAN HAJI MuHAMMAD Su'AuT BIN HAn MuHD.

TAHIR (Sarawak).

DATO' HAJI MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ABDUL JABAR, D.P.M.S., A.M.N., J.P. (Sabak Bernam).

DATO' NIK AHMAD KAMIL, D.K., S.P.M.K., P.Y.G.P., ENCHE' NG F AH y AM (Batu Gajah).

Dato' Sri Setia Raja (Kota Bharu Hilir).


S.M.J.K., P.M.N., DR NG KAM PoH, J.P. (Telok Anson).

TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Hilir Perak).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Perlis Utara).

ABANG OTHMAN BIN HAJI M OASILI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN WOK (Singapore).

ENCHE' s. RAJARATNAM (Singapore).

TUAN HAJI RAHMAT JllN HAJI DAUD, A.M.N.

(Johor Bahru Barat).

ENCHE' RAMLI BIN OMAR (Krian Darat).

TUAN HAn REDZA BIN HAn MoHD.

SAID, P.J.K., J.P. (Rembau-Tampin).


RAJA ROME BIN RAJA M A'AMOR (Kuala Selangor).

ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB, P.I.s.

(Muar Pantai).

ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (lpoh).

ENCHE' Smw LOONG HIN, P.J.K.

(Seremban Barat).

ENCHE' SNG CHIN Joo (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SoH AH TECK (Batu Pahat).

ENCHE' SULEIMAN BIN ALI (Dungun).

PENGIRAN TAHIR PETRA (Sabah).

ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN Au, P.J.K.

(Larut Utara).

ENCHE' TAI KUAN YANG (Kulim Bandar Bharu).


ENCHE' TAMA WENG TINGGANG w AN (Sarawak).

DR TAN CHEE KROON (Batu).

ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan).

ENCHE' TAN TOH HONG (Bukit Bintang).

ENCHE' TAN TSAK Yu (Sarawak).

ENCHE' TIAH ENG BEE (Kluang Utara).

ENCHE' TOH THEAM HOCK (Kampar).

PENGHULU FRANCIS UMPAU ANAK EMPAM (Sarawak).

ENCHE' YEH PAO TzE (Sabah).

ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas).

ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KuET TzE (Sarawak).

ENCHE' YONG NYUK LIN (Singapore).

TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD.


T AIB (Langat).

2281 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2282 The Honourable the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence, Minister of National and Rural Development, BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N.

(Pekan).

TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK ABSENT: the Assistant TUAN HAn ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN (Kota Star Utara).

Minister of Commerce and Industry, CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak).

ENCHE' ALI BIN HAJI AHMAD (Pontian Selatan).

ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N.

(Kluang Selatan).


ENCHE' c. DR GOH KENG SWEE (Singapore).

v. DEVAN NAIR (Bungsar).

ENCHE' Ho SEE BENG (Singapore).

DATO' SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, P.M.N.

(Johor Tenggara).

ENCHE' JEK YEUN THONG (Singapore).

ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak).

DATo' KHOO SIAK CHIEW, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

DATO' LIM KIM SAN, D.U.T.

(Singapore).

ENCHE' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA, P.M.K.

(Pasir Puteh).

ENCHE' MusTAPHA BIN AHMAD (Tanah Merah).

ENCHE' ONG KEE HUI (Sarawak).


ENCHE' ONG PANG BOON (Singapore).

ENCHE' QuEK KAI DoNG, J.P. (Seremban Timor).

ENCHE' s. P. SEENIVASAGAM ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak).

DATO' DONALD ALOYSIUS STEPHENS, ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka).

(Menglembu).

P.D.K.

(Sabah).

DR ToH CHIN CHYE (Singapore).

ENCHE' WEE TOON BOON (Singapore).

PRAYERS (Mr Speaker in the Chair) ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS with which workers can be dismissed, employers cheat the employees of with­ E.P.F.
and Maternity out fear of the workers reporting such violation.

Allowances TERMINATION OF EMPLOYMENT (Amendment to Employment Ordinance) 1.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the Minister of Labour to state whether Government will amend the Employ­ ment Ordinance so that employees are not dismissed on the whims and fancies of the employers as they are at present under the Employment Ordinance which only requires a month's notice or a month's salary in lieu and whether he is aware that because of this ease The Minister of Labour (Enche' V. Mr Speaker, Sir, the Manickavasagam): Government is fully aware of the likely problems connected with the termina­ tion of employment.
this awareness supported the adoption of the general standards and procedure set out in I.LO.

Recommendation Termination mendation, 1 96 3 .

It is because of that the Government has of Employment Recom­ No.

1 19- A s a matter o f fact, m y Ministry has taken the initiative to submit a Paper embodying this I.LO.

Recommenda­ tion for consideration by the National y,,.

2283 15 OCTOBER 1964 2284 and a Sub­ has accepted the Recom­ Joint Labour Advisory Council at its meeting on 25th August, 1964.
The N.J.L.A.C.

mendation in principle committee of the Council is at the moment examining ways and means to put it into effect of the I.L.O.

Recommendation.

certainly after the Sub-Committee its deliberations Report to me.

consider this matter further has completed and submitted its I will the various provisions As regards the statement that I would like to state that by itself does not absolve the "employers cheat the employees of E.P.F.
and Maternity Allowances with­ such out fear of the workers reporting violation", dismissal employer from his liability tributions to the Employees Provident Fund and Maternity Allowances, the case may be, in respect of his employee.

Any contravention of the law in these cases will always be looked into by my Ministry.

to pay con­ as Sir, if the Honourable Member for Batu knows of any specific cases of infringement I would be very glad to have details.
by employers, Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, will the Honourable Minister of Labour assure this House that, if and when he has examined the question of termination the Government will consider passing a legislation of service by employers, to this effect?

Enche' V. Manickavasagam: I have stated just now, Sir, that as soon as I get the Report of the Sub-Committee, I would consider what appropriate action is necessary-if necessary, is I would consider that too.
legislation Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, coming the Minister said he to the question of the employers' evading the E.P.F.

and Maternity Allowances-and was not aware-does he not aware that this practice is widespread?

If he is to his not aware, then I shall bring notice individual cases if and when they are brought to me.

Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I welcome them, and if he has got anything to say, I shall look into them.

INAUGURAL FLIGHTS BY AIRLINES (Acceptance of Free Trips by Ministers) 2.
Dr Tan Chee Kboon asks the Minister of Transport to state the necessity and their wives to accept free trips by Air Lines on their inaugural flights.

for him and other Ministers The Minister of Transport (Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Menteri2 Kabinet menerima jemputan2 tidak-lah di-larang dari Duta2 Besar, atau pun Wakil2 Luar Negeri untok mengambil bahagian dalam penerbangan pertama bagi Sharikat2 Penerbangan Kebangsaan reka dari Malaysia ka-negeri2 mereka.
me­ Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, flight to Europe of an Sir, is the Minister aware that the recent journey of at least two Ministers in an inaugural Airways, has given rise to public apprehension use these means as the means of getting permission to have the flights to and from our capital to their own home countries?
may that these companies Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Maka suka meng­ dengan kita tentu-lah saya tidak faham Tuan Yang di-Pertua, oleh kerana pertanyaan-nya itu ber· pusing2• Tidak ada tujuan yang burok atas jemputan2 yang sa-macham ini, kerana negeri2 yang ada hubongan diplomatic supaya kapal terbang adakan perjanjian negara mereka boleh terbang ka­ negara kita dan kapal terbang kita boleh terbang ka-negara mereka.

ini-lah satu chara yang saya terangkan kapada Yang Berhormat Ahli dari Batu.
Jika kita hendak mem­ buat perhubongan lain, maka kita mesti-lah perhubongan di-antara negara kita dengan negara mereka.

Ini-lah yang saya katakan tetapi tidak payah saya terangkan.

Tetapi kalau Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Batu tidak faham, saya akan beri penjelasan lagi.

Tujuan semua parti2 yang berkenaan ia-lah hendak berbaik2 dengan mengadakan hubongan antara sa-buah negara dengan sa-buah negara yang lain yang ada perhubongan negara kita.

tujuan yang mustahak.


baik dengan negara mengadakan dengan 2285 15 OCTOBER 1964 2286 Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, dalam peperangan, kerana Sir, I must confess that while I have given the Minister a little bit of con­ fusion, he has confused me.

I merely want to know whether this acceptance of flights by Ministers may cause apprehension and whether undue influence has been brought to bear on Ministers them these flights.
on the part of the public, to grant BILL THE SUPPLEMENTARY SUPPLY (1964) BILL melibatkan Russia sendiri telah menghadapi perang ideology di-antara gergasi tabir besi dengan gergasi tabir buloh, kerana lebeh Russia dan Tito berpendapat penting dan s�su�i .

menga�alkan dasar hidup berba1k2 ia-1tu co-existence dengan negara2 kapitalis dan damai, tetapi bagi pendapat Chn�a pula ia-itu Mao Tse Tang lebeh yaku� kapada dasar berkeras dengan.
teon mereka, akhir-nya hanchor, maka dan kapitalis kominis hidup sa-bagaimana amalkan oleh Indonesia.

dapat-la� yang d1- perang akan timbul sa-chara � an Second Reading Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya rasit.

atau atas Rang nampak-nya Perbahathan tingkah-laku saya, muka-nya Mr Speaker: saya suka mengingatkan of debate on Order read for resumption motion, "That the Bill be now read a second time".

(14th October, 1964).

Undang2 Anggaran Belanja, 1964 di­ mulakan.


Lebeh dahulu daripada sa­ orang ahli hendak menyambongkan bahathan-nya, lagi kapada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat ia­ itu Rang Undang2 ini mengikut Per­ atoran Meshuarat 67 (3) hanya satu dalam hari dan dua hari di-untokkan Kita hanya satu hari Jawatan-kuasa.

sahaja tinggal ia-itu pada hari besok.


Perbahathan ini kita telah mulakan pada petang sa-malam, dan saya suka hendak menyatakan kapada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat ia-itu daripada petang ini kapada Menteri2 saya memberi peluang dan Menteri Kewangan menjawab apa2 hujah atau pertanyaan Yang Berhormat.

dukachita sunggoh pun negara2 yang: saya katakan tidak ada pertalian dengan Seato, Anzus, Nato,.

perjanjian Meto dan lain2, tetapi kita mendapat sokongan moral dan material daripada.

negara2 ini.
negara2 ini.

Tetapi ada dalam negaraz New Zealand, itu orang2 dari Britain, Amerika ia-itu wartawan2 yang saya sebutkan sa-malam saperti Dennis dan John Stubb, saya rasa Bloodsworth manusia saperti John Stubb yang saya yang lama, maseh ingat lagi di-Dewan John Stubb ini sa-orang wartawan yang dudok di-belakang manis, tetapi berani dan sang­ ramah-tamah, gup mengkecham dan menghina Yang Teramat Mulia Perdana Menteri dengan satu penghinaan yang tidak dapat ra'ayat Malaysia ini melupakan.
Jadi, orang2 atau manusia yang sa­ bagini saya kepala-nya dahulu kala hukum-nya di-sula sampai mati.

Saya berharap kapada Kerajaan manusia2 saperti ini mesti-lah persona non grata.

(Seberang Pertua, dalam uchapan saya pada petang sa-malam saya telah mengata­ kan ia-itu seluroh mata dunia me­ numpukan perhatian oleh sebab pencherobohan Indonesia.

Kita telah pun mendapat sokongan dan juga besar di-Majlis sokongan moral di-persidangan Cairo.
Negeri2 saperti Amerika, Britain, dan New Zealand sa-hingga Australia bukan sahaja memberi sokongan moral, tetapi sanggup memberi sokongan material atau benda2 untok menghadapi pencherobohan hanya negeri Russia, tetapi saya perchaya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Russia tidak akan dengan berita2 yang di-siarkan wartawan2 asing di-luar negeri saperti Times Magazine di-Australia, Telegraph, Sportsman sangat-lah Press Attache atau Pegawai2 Penerangan kita yang di-luar negeri mengambil peranan yang lebeh penting dan aktif lagi bagi menjawab dengart serta-merta kalau sa-kira-nya berita2 yang mengelirukan dengan Malaysia, tetapi hanya saya �apati Enche' Sopie sahaja yang men- 1awab.
Saya perchaya di-Australia dan rasa dalam masa Jepun sudah hilang, kalau zaman Sunday dan lain2 patut Enche' Ibrahim bin Abdul Rahman Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Tengah): Tuan Yang di­ kapada Malaysia Indonesia, Keselamatan daripada Ahli2 berkenaan berkenaan di-adakan oleh di-dapati 2287 15 OCTOBER 1964 2288 Jadi, sa-kira-nya antara bangsa sa-bagai lain2 lagi ada Press Attache, di-negeri tetapi mereka berdiam diri sahaja.
Jadi, saya berharap Menteri Hal Ehwal Luar Negeri mengambil perhatian berat supaya perkara2 ini jangan berlaku lagi dan saya berharap juga kalau boleh press kita adakan satu international atau persuratan Reuter dan U.P.I.

Di-Indonesia juga ada "Antara", Russia ada "Tass" dan ada inter­ "Pr.avada".

oleh national press yang di-anjorkan �alaysia ini, maka dapat-lah itu mengeluarkan berita dengan serta-merta dan dapat kita menghebah­ kan pada masa itu juga.
Perkara ini saya chakapkan, me�andangkan keadaan kita yang Soal pertahanan gentmg sekarang.

itu bukan merupakan kapal terbang, kapal selam atau askar2 yang banyak, tetapi perang urat sarap juga mustahak ia-itu kita mesti mengadakan lebeh banyak publicity bukan sahaja dalam negeri ini tetapi juga di-luar negeri.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, wartawan2 mengundi dalam Majlis Bangsa2 Bersatu.
Rombongan yang di-pimpin oleh Menteri Yang Berhormat Perdana Singapura tidak memadai: dengan ada­ nya membuat lawatan yang bagitu.

Saya berharap kalau sa-kira-nya ada diplomatic ini, maka dapat-lah kita sokongon banyak lagi dalam Perhimpunan Agong ��ngsa2 Bersatu yang akan datang llll.
dengan negara2 relations Dalam soal pertahanan, Tuan Yang saya uchapkan banyak2 di-Pertua, terima kaseh kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri Kewangan kerana menguntok­ kan hampir2 $11.6 juta untok Pasokan Tentera Wataniah (Territorial Army).

Army ada-lah terdiri ke­ Territorial banyakan-nya daripada pemuda2, dan saya telah berdamping rapat juga dengan pemuda2 ini dan saya dapati banyak di-antara pasokan territorial army ini belum lagi dapat senapang, uniform dan alat2 yang sa-wajar-nya.
Tetapi walau bagaimana pun, saya perchaya tentera wataniah mengamalkan kata pepatah orang Padang yang mengatakan: ini selalu Berakit2 ka-hulu, Berenang2 ketepian, Bersakit2 dahulu, Bersenang2 kemudian.

Mereka memang bekerja untok mempertahankan negara.

juta yang di-untokkan wataniah ini saya harap dapat di­ gunakan wang itu dengan baik-nya.

Jadi $11.6 kapada tentera Jadi surat-khabar, Tuan Yang di­ Pertua, ada-lah sangat penting dan paling bahaya sa-kali.
Napoleon pernah berkata-"I am not afraid of 1,000 or even 10,000 bayonets but I am most Jadi dia scared of two newspapers."

takut kapada dua surat-khabar dari­ pada 1,000 atau 10,000 tombak.

Kalau wartawan2 ini dapat memberi pene­ rangan yang penting, maka dapat kita mengelakkan daripada perselisehan atau akan dapat lagi banyak sokongan2 moral daripada negara2 luar.
Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Yang di­ Pertua, berhubong dengan soal hal ehwal luar negeri dan juga penerangan, saya berharap supaya banyak lagi kita adakan perhubongan diplomatik de­ ngan negara Afrika yang mana saya telah pun berchakap dalam meshuarat yang lalu, kerana sunggoh pun kita diplomatik tidak ada perhubongan yang banyak dengan negara2 di-Afrika yang ra'ayat-nya 145,000,000 bukan soal bilangan pendudok, ini soal bilangan pengundi dalam Bangsa 2 Bersatu.
Sunggoh pun hanya 145,000,000 orang tetapi bilangan undi dalam Bangsa 2 Bersatu banyak, kerana banyak negara2 di-Afrika telah pun mendapat kemerdekaan dan dapat itu, tetapi Sa-lain daripada itu, saya tidak mahu menjawab berkenaan dengan rungutan Ahli Yang Berhormat dari­ pada PAS kelmarin yang mengatakan supaya Kerajaan mengambil timbangan ia-itu jangan-lah di-ragukan kapada ahli PAS, kerana orang PAS sedia berkhidmat kapada negara.
Saya takut rayuan yang di-buat kelmarin sa-bagai "crocodile tears" atau "menangis buaya".

Jadi, sama ada sunggoh atau tidak, tetapi saya rasa sa-bagai "mengeluarkan ayer mata" buaya sahaja.

Sekian-lah sahaja.

Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam (lpoh): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to say a few words in this general debate on the 2289 1 5 OCTOBER 1964 2290 ac­ required is in the local landings.
May I start at all for one now existing press reports­ of this nation, it is and the from by the Honourable votes for Information to protect the integrity confrontation that with the emergency in this country, but I am suggesting although asking for Times is usually reliable that there may be Estimates.
Supplementary off by saying that a considerable amount of the expenditure no doubt connected situation and that while I support all expendi­ ture necessary and sovereignty necessary for us, as citizens of this against a country, to caution ourselves Emer­ possible misuse of the so-called gency in this country.
I address these words to the Cabinet, or to the Govern­ ment itself, because of the recent pronouncements Minister of Finance indicating, cording to the newspapers, Straits Government sources, an increase in taxation.

I have also been informed through the Press that sirens are being installed in Kuala Lumpur and other parts of this country to sound warnings of danger.
I am sure the people of this country will now consider whether or not what the Opposition said during the election campaigns is coming true or otherwise, because during the election the Opposition the Budget presented tions was a bogus Budget-proposals not in any sense true and that it was the intention of the Government at that time to increase taxation in the very of near future.
Now, the installation sirens according to public opinion in this town of Kuala Lumpur and else­ where is this: blow your sirens loud, increase taxaition, and the people will say, "It is necessary because of Indonesian and that is the excuse this Government can have for increasing taxation.

Therefore, perhaps, instead of blowing off the sirens so early, we should blow them off just before the Budget session which may be better for the Government.
Therefore, mentary Estimates are going to be properly used and that the blowing off of sirens is not going to be merely an excuse for the increase what we are asked to do in this House is so necessary and should be done without question by the Opposition?
I am not suggesting moment that Indonesian is not serious, this Government, supplementary and Broadcasting, for example, or for Defence, is not giving the people of this country the information which they are entitled to have before supplementary votes are asked for or approved in this House.

We have from sources other than the local Press­ from international known of landings in Malaya, landings other than those disclosed Press, true or untrue, confirmed or unconfirmed.
This Government is not prepared to confirm or deny to our local Press whether there had been subsequent Saturday was there a landing by sea craft on Malayan territory, an attempted landing by sea craft on Malayan territory?

Is it confirmed or is that not confirmed?

But it appeared in international not appear in international press reports?

Why is it that the people of this country themselves are not in­ formed of it?
Why is it that suddenly we find curfew areas declared on Malayan soil, leave alone Malaysian soil?

Why is it that suddenly there is in various parts of the police activity police activity?

Why country-extreme is it that there to the is no indication people of this country as to how serious is the invasion of Malayan soil?
Mr Speaker, Sir, when the Emergency was declared and we were asked to give approval to the declara­ tion of such Emergency, we gave but it is a support to that declaration, matter of regret that I have to stand up today and say that the possible abuse of the powers under that declara­ tion of Emergency is already apparent to the people of this country.

Parties suggested that before the elec­ I do hope that these Supple­ For example, last confrontation," press reports.

Did it of taxation.
campaigns was there Mr Speaker, Sir, speaking on these one has to ask oneself: is Estimates, the Emergency situation really so serious, that is it so dangerous in this country Here, speaking on the question of Mr Spea­ the Malaysian Police Force, ker, Sir, in reply to a civil question or made by the Opposi­ civil observation tion that permits for public meetings in open spaces were refused by the 2291 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2292 nature and this cannot of the arrogant Police at Ipoh, we got a reply from the Honourable Minister concerned which was not at all satisfactory, an answer which is indicative attitude being adopted by the minis­ terial bench in this House which is becoming more and more apparent, more and more annoying to the Oppo­ sition.
If that is the attitude being adopted by the ministerial bench, then we will have to reconsider the attitude which we have to adopt to the Govern­ ment side.

A civil question requires a civil answer, but if we are not going to get civil answers, then we shall not be civil in our questions either.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the answer given was: .. 'You can have your public meetings in enclosed places."

That is quite so.
That is quite so.

I have the information, be denied, that the directive from nigher sources to the Police was this : .. 'You can allow public meetings of a political nature in buildings.

The Police at local levels should not allow public meetings of a political in open spaces unless there is an election campaign on."
Mr Speaker, Sir, if we are asked to approve supple­ mentary votes for the Royal Malaysian Police, then I ask this : "What is the reason why public meetings in open nature are no� to spaces of a political be allowed?"

From the answer given by the Honourable I have got the impression may be communal trouble if such meetings are allowed.

Mr Speaker.

Sir, I ask, "Where is the evidence of the where possibility in the past has there been communal trouble on Malaysian soil?
Bukit Mertajam-was that communal trou­ not.

It was ble?

It was certainly trouble which started in a market place over the splashing of water, and if that is to be called communal trouble, then I say that those who call that communal trouble are fostering com­ munal trouble in this country; those who call that communal trouble are people who are trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill.
It was just a brawl in a market place because water was spilled on one person and there was a fight between a group of persons and another group of persons.

of communal trouble; that there Minister concerned, Then the Honourable Minister of possible communal It was finished there.

There is no reason whatsoever to say that there is an indication trouble.

said that he has a duty to protect even Opposition Members.
If that is the argument or the logic which this Honourable Minister is going to use in this House, then it is no surprise that in the Security Council or in the United Nations we do not get better results and that Russia vetoes what­ ever we want to do either in the Security Council or in the United Nations.

Mr Speaker, Sir, answers must be logical, answers must be sensible .

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

It may raise a laugh amongst your backbenchers, but a laugh amongst your backbenchers means nothing, because a laugh amongst those who do not understand, or who are not prepared to under­ stand, means absolutely nothing what­ soever.
Mr Speaker, Sir, we in this country, who say that we pride ourselves in democracy and the practice of demo­ cracy, must appreciate one thing: that democracy can only survive if the Government in its execution of its duties allow the public, the people who democracy, to know what is establish happening in the country, and for the purpose the votes asked for under the Royal Malaysian Police must be such that the Police Force must be prepared to allow public meetings in public places.
It is all very nice to say, "You can have public meetings in an enclosed place."

But I ask this ques­ tion, "Where are you going to get your kampong folks, where are you going to get your new villagers come to an enclosed place to listen to the political events happening in this country?

How many persons can come to an enclosed place to hear a political speech by a political this country?"
trends and political party leader in to Mr Speaker, Sir, it is clear, and I say it is clear to my mind, that this Government intends to use, as a cover for dictatorial declared in this country.

It may have methods, the Emergency 2293 15 OCTOBER 1964 2294 for genuine purposes, been declared but it is being misused by the Govern­ ment of this day; and the fact that it has been misused is so clear and so blatant, because there sign of communal trouble.
been no communal trouble and those who foster communal trouble are speak of com­ those who constantly is no munal trouble when there indicationl in this at all.

country of communal trouble no is absolutely There has so long as that that decision, because it is of vital importance, because decision so long at remains, then for least I and my Party shall go campaign to expose in its vicious public opinion to Government attempt to muzzle all which may be contrary policy in this country.
this Government on a �r Speaker, Sir, speaking on Police or d here I category until they are dead.

to the laws of this country, to death and in.

the normal I use the word who are or Federal Citizens , I would like to refer to in relation to the in this in country ns, or in fact all of trials declared of Indonesia nationals, who may invade our agam, and on Justice, Prime Minister and Defence, the question Emergency respect foreign shores and are captured in our country.
According and �nd�r the �11?-ergency, they are to be tned m our c1v1l courts and if found guilty in the majority of cases will be sentenced course of events will be executed hanged by the neck With regard to traitors-an make a distinction, as meaning-those "traitors" our nationals who have t�ned hostile to this country, now, with regard to the second of persons, I would agree that whatever the situation our co_urts and if found guilty should and will be hanged by the neck until they are dead.
There should be no for that.

Now I ask other alternative : "What is the situ�tion in this question Malaya and for what are we being as�ed to �pprove these supplementary estimates?

Mostly to fight Indonesian Now, there is no war in the aggression.

true sense of the word, because no war �as been d�clared.

But I say this : that of war is is a formality-a declaration What, in effect has only a formality.

happ�ned is that in Malaya ther; is a shootmg war.

There can of that.
There can of that.

Foreign nationals this territory.

There there have been killing.

in physical this land-a war which I predicted the time Malaysia am glad to say my words are not far wrong.

; In actual fact on i� fact, there is a war at was planned, be no denial have invaded , they are to be tried by have been shooting and I Mr Speaker, Sir, it is very simple and the to debate, to sacrifice Therefore.
in this country, what they want to and for their to say, "There there is Indonesian we must all we must all be is very good and all that for this Government is an Emergency, confrontation.

be united; therefore, one."

All that I am is very true.
But in being one, sure the people of this country are not foolish get for themselves generations only way they can do it is by being given the freedom to discuss, to hear and to understand is going to be denied, then I say this Government is not going to get the co-operation or the unity which it should get it abuses the powers under the Emergency declared It is my genuine and my sincere hope on this that the Ministers issue will seriously the directives sent out to the Police at various trouble, may be justified.
But where there is no ��ic�tion o� such trouble, it 1s m the mterest levels.

If there is indication then.

perhaps, such action but which it will not get in this country.

of this nation that reconsider concerned .

If that right then I say of if the to call upon We who are politicians, in you .

should allow-public meetings pubhc places by political to parties mform the public of political events in this c<;>untry.
even if you want people to support being denied that right to call upon the people to support the Government.

We want that right, and we want the right to criticise and to criticise within the framework this nation.
I appeal to this Govern­ ment in its interest, the nation everybody in the interest and in the interest if we so desire of the laws of this Government it violently concerned, of of to reconsider says that Indonesians nationality should be tried in our civil of Indonesian Mr Speaker, Sir, this Government the Government, are 2295 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2296 hang them by the neck to directions of Indo­ who of their whom, perhaps, they do not because of war.

But have you of such for one courts and should be hanged.
Techni­ cally you are, perhaps, right; legally, there is perhaps, you are right, no declaration thought of the implications action?

Have you thought, moment, what are the Jmplications on an international level of such action?
You are going to try soldiers nesia, in this particular instance, are acting on orders of their country in obedience leaders like, whom, perhaps they do not agree with, who, perhaps, they would like to assassinate, let us say, but who, in to their nation they have to loyalty land; they obey.

They come into this are captured; you try them in civil courts; and you till they are dead.

Have you considered the repercussions are the Indonesians they capture our fishermen, when they our soldiers?
They would not capture even give them a trial they will put them before a wall and shoot them dead without a trial.

They our will say, "Malaya is not treating of soldiers according to the Articles we will do the same; War.

Therefore, we will shoot them even a trial."

Is that what you want to foster?

I know what argument is going to be put back to me; I know what answer will be given to me from the Government Bench.
They will say, "Indonesia is our now doing that, they are killing men without why not we kill them, and with a trial? "

That is no answer.

a right.

of such action?

What going to do when Two wrongs do not make a trial.

Therefore, and, perhaps, without act-the does not give such the lives of the soldiers if Indonesia , then she will be condemned because treatment by the free world, and the United Nations will be compelled to United Nations must act if it is a body worthy of its salt.
And I say that this is a matter of importance because it of this concerns lives and the right to live country-the of our soldiers I hope of this country.

this Government will be able to recon­ to try them in civil sider the decision criminals under the courts as ordinary civil law.
In making this statement, I fully appreciate declara­ tion of war, but what I say is that this Government must consider is right and proper to apply the nationals who criminal this territory as soldiers of are invading countries.

I say it is wrong foreign because in actual fact there is today in Malaya an existence that there is no laws to foreign whether it of a war.

Mr Speaker, Sir, next, I would like Ministry is very slow.
But, since on the question of the to speak of Health and say this-that the situation is still of health and hospitals in the same state that it was and that improvement we have an energetic Health, I am sure the situation will improve very quickly.

regret to say that is still bad, and I ask for very urgent action from the Honourable of Health in respect However, I in Ipoh the situation of Ipoh Hospital.

Minister of Minister Mr Speaker, Sir, I say that this of war.
Our should treat the situation should be tried in our civil to this nation should be hanged until Government in Malaya as a situation traitors courts, traitors tried and condemned and they are dead.

But foreign should be treated because that is the situation and, if we treat them as prisoners war, then I say we can expect reciprocal treatment for fall into the enemy's side.
The argument not give such treatment our young men if they hands on the other that Indonesia of war, in Malaya as prisoners cannot stand, nationals may of Mr Speaker, Sir, coming to the again under and outside I see estimates this of deten­ for expansion Supplementary Estimates Defence and Police, the alarming in this country feature country now is the question tion-and of places of detention; and one has only to bring to mind the case which appeared think it was referred able Member for Batu-of a detainee in who died whilst in detention Sarawak.
He was found hanging.

Now,.

the pathologists medical authorities, from our land of Malaya-I say ''our land of Malaya" .

.

.

.

in the newspaper reports-I to by the Honour­ Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir.

on a point of clarification, I have looked into of inquest has been fixed for October this case.

The resumption 2297 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2298 2 1 st, and so I do not know whether it is sub judice or not for the Member to brin He is a lawyer al\d he should know; but I am giving him that information.
g the subject up here.

Honourable Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: Mr were but no , nothing was taken-no tion, no enquiries to the Police, of men's teeth out in the Police Station, here of Labour will be very being knocked out in Sir, I am not going to touch Speaker, on the facts of the case at all.

I say that in Sarawak a case is pending, it is sub judice all right, but it proves one thing that, from the reports, newspaper there is strong evidence ce.

of malpracti That is one case.


What is the Govern­ ment going to do?

How many cases of brutal beating in Malaya have been reported being knocked of Indian estate labourers'-and the Minister interested-teeth the Police Station, Police reports made at the Police Station action whatsoever investiga were made.

Why?

One whatsoever, man lied, two men lied, three men lied, twenty men lied, everybody lied, except the Police?

Now, what is always 1he answer that comes back, Mr Speaker, Sir?
It is this : "Where is your evidence were beaten? "

You expect the evidence in a dark room?

You were beaten by one policeman and you expect the say, "I saw this policeman witness to beat you"?

Is that the way the Police works?

Is that the way the Legal Department Attorney-General's interests after the country?

I ask you I also ask, therefore, sity for increased to allow that situation this country?
I ask, what is the protec­ tion that this Government give to citizens Police Stations Stations know that, but even the Alliance know that it Members of Parliament has happened; and I see that the Honourable area is smiling that himself has been to the Police Stations to help those people.
What is the is going to who are locked up in and walloped Department looks of this of the citizens and votes, if you are going to carry on in those questions what is the neces­ and he himself trying Member from the Penang by policemen?

Not only I works?

Is that the way the at me, because (Laughter) in Police he knows that you that who are to give?
Ask another and I ask that you are going or jail visitors, if neces­ It is the circumstances protection to show that policemen for evidence have walloped man in a dark room?

You are asking for the impossible.

we must look through, if you are going to approve the Supple­ mentary Estimates, you must certainly set up a procedure of independent prison visitors sary, and see that the fundamental rights opportunity to bail at the earliest is not denied, to those persons locked up in Police Stations.
The Inter­ national Commi latest mented on this question of bail and allowing advisers Estimates I see Supplementary custody.

being asked for, but I ask the Minister, are you going to assure this House that there will be no hindrance placed for relatives arrested advisers to see them when they are arrested?
Now, we find that the are not allowed to see them, relatives have not and the answer given is, "We completed relatives to visit persons in Police to visit persons who are against legal issue of its magazine, has com­ , counsel and legal , no hindrance our investigat ssion of Jurists , in the ions."
Mr Speaker, Sir, the International should be implication of have not been com­ is that you have not walloped does not approve They do not approve of or legal that relatives of the right deprived persons on the ground have not been com­ Commission of Jurists of that action.

the statement advisers to see arrested that investigations pleted, and the sinister "investigations pleted" the man long enough to get what you want out of him.
I ask for an assurance from the Honourable Minister that relatives and legal persons advisers will be allowed to visit them to arrest, if necessary, have a few words with them in the of police officers.

presence of arrested duly appointed within the hour of their by such persons I have raised this matter before, and What harm I raise this again.

can there be, or what wrong can there be, in the presence persons?
Are you going to deprive them of that right-and you are going to ask this House to give you more of police officers to visit these 2299 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2300 money io carry on the brutal torture, the merciless beatings of these persons?

I do hope that my and with which comment I Mr Speaker, Sir, those are the points which affect the people of this country generally am sure many in this House will agree with me, but who are not saying it for obvious reason!>.
comments, few as they may be, will be which they in the spirit with considered have been given in this House, and due action will be taken to remedy that situation ; and may I end by saying "The louder you blow your sirens, may perhaps, the larger your taxation be".

is a very desirable detainees Central Government against these political measure, as this has a deterrent effect on the people who often try to cause political troubles our country.

They know that by impos­ ing such punishment the C.C.O.
and other subversive ments in Sarawak.

Thank you, Sir, we can get rid of ele­ and disturbances in Dr Lim Chong Eu (Tanjong): of things to come.

They had the people that a sigh will go Sir, when I rose to speak Mr Speaker, (Sup­ against the last Development my plementary) Estimates, I prefaced speech in this House by saying that with this new demand for supplemen­ tary expenditure through this House-and this sigh is the reflec­ tion of the sigh that goes out through­ we are asked.

out the country.
out the country.

Now, wo hours, to within another seventy-t pass a Supplementary Supply Bill for a sigh, of larger sum of money, and the course, will naturally in turn become why Sir, we must understand bigger.

that should be so.

It is so because, particular, during the Alliance the country giving the people a false picture gone around telling Malaysia there will be greater perity, greater but they did not choose to tell the people the facts of life.

Now, within a matter of less than twenty-four months.
been forced to they have completely and in so doing their attitude, reverse the unforseen they naturally issue stress the dangers to· of confrontation-and this country-as increased reason for the increased expenditure.

the reason for the re, or the major· in , the last election Members had gone around with pros­ happiness; peace, greater expenditu ting Enche' Edmund Langgu anak Saga Mr Speaker, Sir, we heard detainees useful citizens.
that these political from Sarawak to Malaya should Government of transpor detainees from Sarawak to (Sarawak): made by the Honourable the allegation Member for Batu yesterday accusing the Central political Batu Gajah, Malaya.
In his speech yesterday, this Honourable Member suggested shifted be permitted to visit some places in Malaya to see things, as this might turn them into good and Here, I have to remind this Honourable Member that these detainees cal detainees, who are found to be detrimenta country and its people.

Speaker, not take such a playful measure as suggested for Batu.
Whether these political detainee Sarawak after undergoing their punishment, as suggested and scorching Member for Batu, by the Honourable friends I am sure that their interested in tactics would follow their political view of having such enjoyable punish­ ment.

By doing so it means giving more chance to these political trouble to cause further Therefore, Sir, the Government should by the Honourable Member l to the security s be permitted of the Mr detainees to get back to in Sarawak.
are politi­ trying to fight and defeat to gird itself as a. , and we all accept the absolute at the same time I do· of Finance Minister some of the burden reality necessity for this country up, to unite itself, the enemies who are trying to destroy us.
However, Sir, ask the Honourable to try and alleviate of the people of this country ing greater to limit unnecessary we can say that the to some extent, degree whereby the Alliance Govern­ ment was unable to assess the size of and the complexity the problem, by exercis­ in trying expenditure.
Sir, care and stringency of the, Central Government for this sensible step taken against these political are enjoying themselves Detention detained right thinking realise that such detainee s, who in Batu Gajah Camp, where they should be as long as necessary.
The people of Sarawak now step taken by the Sir, I would like to thank the Sir, we all accept confrontation 2301 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2302 actual fact, the the Members of like it or not, not only this House, but all the people through­ must be ready to out the country can meet it.
However the Government greatly if they begin right now assist to cut out the unnecessary of expendit to talk very long in this particular debate, the but I would like to prepare way for the debate that will be forth­ coming by just referring to a few items in Command Paper No.

29. ure.

Sir, it is not my intention frills If we refer to page 10, there is a token vote of $ 1 0-in actual fact, the amount spent was $ 1,200.
You will read under the item the explanation that it has been possible to quote savings from within the amount already under Head S. 7 and that priated a token sum is required.

That is a good example whereby savings are made by the Government and expended in an appropriate is very necessary.

that manner for something appro­ only of Malaysia, got by what we have now problem of the formation is reflected to pass in this House and what we have to ask the people to bear.
in this country The Honourable Minister of Finance capable man in his and the foresight illion-dollar it was heralded the and the in providing in the past must in the remember passed is an extremely own field.

I am sure the tributes from his own backbenchers have given him great assurance post that he fills.
I clearly that when the last Parliament the Budget, which broke through the of the thousand-m barrier mark in this country, as an example of the strength, development power of the Alliance further progress will look at the Command Paper 28, you will notice that the expenditure was $ 1 , 1 22 million-in of Finance speak­ Honourable ing very softly yesterday had already told us this; but the total expected expenditure us, $ 1 ,690-over million.
I am not as as the Member for Batu to pemickety go down to $51 3, but roughly the ratio of the under-e is of the order of 25 per cent.

to this country.

If you the very beginning of this year is, as he has told approved for 1 964 stimation Minister of the savings but the sav­ However, Sir, if we refer to other previously that were Allow­ have been found from used for an altogether purpose.
Much more important to by the Honourable Member provision under Sub-head Emoluments, items, which have been referred from Batu, but from a slightly different point of view-and I refer to several items, item (40) and so on-we will find that savings the existing I-Personal ings are being different is the question found from Student Teachers' ance which were used for other pur­ poses-it comes under the Head of Education.
Sir, I do suggest that the words that are used by the Treasury Memorandum itself to the country at large.

They are not : these are monies that were savings not spent because a Government ject was delayed or was not fully implemented.

were not spent.
were not spent.

If they savings, thankful, $ 1,000 or $5,000 and put the "kitty" same purpose, i.e., for the provision of Student these monies that have however, So they were monies that were in fact the country would be very saved even if the Government it back into not been spent, have been reallocated and later on used it for the give some concern Teachers' A llowance.

But for pro­ Sir, we have to take into considera­ of Finance has tion what has already happened this year.
We have also to bear in mind what is going to happen next year and what this House will have to debate at the next meeting; and we have to bear that in mind, parti­ cularly in view of the intimation that the Minister already let out, when he addressed a meeting at the Tong A un Kim Har Kong Hoay in Malacca, to the gathering taxation and the honour of the Minister Finance not only to break the $ 1,000- barrier million lion barrier.
wherever be met-if the increased means the fulfilment of will naturally country and security country then I am afraid whether but also the $2,000-mil­ Sir, I say this, because of the sovereignt help the progress be the privilege of future increased .
It might well go to the defence will naturally expenditure where he hinted expenditure increased our plans and y of our of this has to of we 2303 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2304 is being spent for the which we consider un­ other projects necessary, a matter of frill and a matter of prestige maybe, but unnecessary prestige.

Sir, I refer to the fact that part of the savings that were found under Education purpose of preserving of Nubia.
Sir, however honourable and however wonderful the monuments of Nubia feel that if savings could have been made it need not necessarily have been spent, particularly project of that nature.

the idea of saving at this time, for a may be, we the Monuments cut down to a minimum at this present time.

, we Sir there is another issue on which carrying of the Port of at the wrong on with our progress Fund.

Therefore, the Governments determi­ Fund.

Yes­ time-I problem is a much have n_?


I wo�ld like to talk and that comes in page 19, item (45), where a sulll: of $ 150 million is provided as a contribu­ tion to the Development terday-perhaps did raise the question Penang and the future of Penang.

But, Sir, the essential more important one.

We quarrel with nation of in two fronts.

We are being attacked by external forces ; so we have to counter the external enemy.
At the same time, we must do everything can to lay down the framework for our future progress and that is the reason, I presume, for the provision Development the Government that, under cumstances country, to make every cent count, to make every cent play its part, because there in ·the past that has been criticism projects are made with development no real integration of our future pro­ gress in view, and I bring up �he question of Penang and the qu�s�i�n of an examination of the provision Penang Island, for the development of industrial Wellesley as well as in Penang Island as an example of the type of integrati that the Government should embark upon so that the spend whatever monies the people are asked to provide wisely and with returns to the people.
more clearcut of great danger to this they should make every effort on, the type of development sites in Province to the I urge Government will these cir­ for the possibility of new ports on Sir, in the case of Penang-I am using it as an example-we have a very important issue.
The importance of the briefly yes­ issue as I have mentioned terd;y and I would not go into it again, arises from the fact that the Honourable the Prime Minister implementation clude Penang Island in the Common Market should be kept in abeyance until such time as Penang can be per­ s uaded to accept it.

Sir, the words are so guarded; we do not know of the proposal had agreed that the to in­ Here is another indication, Sir, of the Ministry which we would Sir.
everybody postage stamps and so on to the and also who understands in this world appreciates the type of expenditure not like to see incurred again-in page 18 of Command Paper 29. item (41) we have a provision under of External Affairs that to mark the occasion of the launching of the Elea­ nor Roosevelt Memorial the Malay­ sian Government has decided to issue special face value of $52,500.
in this world who has some pretension to democracy something of the nature of human the kindness great work that had been done by the late Eleanor Roosevelt, and Malaya in of t�e trying to show our appreciation international of her work m character the sphere of humanity should sh_?w some mark of respect on the occasion of the launching But I ask the members of the Govern­ ment whether they realise that the stamps of the North Borneo territor Sabah and Sarawak, still, time, carry their old former old colonial vestige-they Queen Elizabeth to spend any money at all in changing stamps or the issue of stamps, I feel that properly such an expenditure should be used for our own national advancement and for the development of, what we have tried to say again and again, a truly Malaysian ss _ and to develop our own stamps.
Sir, under those condition difficulties tainly ask this Government to consider that our first and this idea of own internal affairs must come should be s, in view of the that we face, I would cer­ still carry the picture of a memorial to her.

.

Sir, if we are gomg at the present consciousne prestige ies, of .

2305 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2 306 of for the Budget, because time that the Government should make up its how long the time of abeyance will be.
We are a little bit worried about the forthcoming and again the Minister of Finance had always eyed the $400,000 over per year which the elimination the free port status of Penang would bring to the Federal revenue.

Sir, I do maintain in this instance mind very clearly and should try and assess the feelings of the people of Penang before it made up its mind.
There are two alternatives people of Penang to do for their future livelihood, and I refer in this particular to the people of Penang Island instance in particular have to retain their free port status and try and deve­ lop industries more in the line of tourism, or else they have to understand that these words by the Honourable the Prime Minister are words which are writings "they have to be persuaded the question market."
However, Sir, the importance, therefore, How can you a n d I hope the word "persuade" is not just a euphemism to coerce or to force.

is on the word "persuaded of entry into the common : they either which are persuade the peopl e ?

­ to accept on the wall­ ".


Province Wellesley, in the Island of development between the Island develop­ increased Sir, I do feel that if a plan of deve­ to the lopment could be made tangible people of Penang to provide for greater industrial Penang, greater industrial ment in Province Wellesley, communication of Penang and the provision of greater port facili­ ties on the Island of Penang not only for passenger, not only for cargo.
but also for instances fishing industry-we tuna fishing industry in Penang Island-whether port facilities could not be made for more trawlers and so on and so forth.

We know that Govern­ ment has already earmarked a plan for the reclamation in Weld Quay area, spending a proposed total of about $3 million for that reclamation.
remarks made by the Honourable Minister of Transport that there were no alternative or circumstances Sir, when I listened already have a like the sites for to the of 300 over acres the day before can be applied time, about the develop­ example.
The experts to improve the livelih In Penang a promise was Minister of the port of Penang, I considered that if Government were going to spend $ 3 land i n Weld million t o reclaim the Quay, it could well consider how it can best reclaim that land and at the same time provide for the possibility of port extension in future.

After all, experts can be wrong, and experts can be made right again.

The port at Butterworth is an outstanding were proven wrong for 30 years.
We have now got new experts who say that you can put up a port in Penang with six deep water wharves.

However, that is not the issue.

The issue is whether this type of development, our expendi­ ture for development, will really bring progress ood of the people in the area.

I only use Penang as an example, because we are only talking of the Development Esti­ mates, but the example elsewhere.
made by the Honourable Commerce and Industry, especially during election ment of the Mak Mandin industrial sites of Penang, 300 acres, with no known projects of the Chief Minister benefit to the people of no calculable Penang.

We do not know how many people are going to get employment, what the sites will bring in terms of benefit.

We have also heard from Housing that low cost houses have been constructed in Penang, but these low cost houses are in Penang Island and not in Province Wellesley.
But, obviously are being placed in Province the trade and the increase is going to be focussed in Province Wellesley, integrated development ley; but housing was put nearer home, at Kampong Bahru.

We have also heard from the Minister of Labour that he has tried to persuade the workers of Penang to seek waterfront alternative employment time, but there are for them to go except on the question of getting a j ob.
You must provide proper housing, provide all facilities for employment , if the deep water wharves Wellesley, of livelihood then housing should be as a programme in the over in Province Welles­ and, from the admission of Penang, with at the present no inducements and ensure prospects of these industrial provision the Minister for 2307 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2308 of development before people can make changes.

for their livelihood development of port facilities funds.
It must try and before the hopes and aspira­ Sir, I feel that in the case of Penang, the only way whereby Government can honestly and truly try to persuade the people of Penang to give up their free port status and j oin the common market would be to employ a much more careful system in using the development provide real economic planning which can provide a scheme whereby the people of Penang can see tangible benefit.
We think in terms of indus­ trial sites, with planning of industries, to say 1 ,000 acres on Penang amounting Island and 1,000 acres over in Province Wellesley tions of the people of Penang can be met; and we think also in terms of further on Penang Island in order that Penang in the future can catch up and develop.
Sir, I made for all these asking for a token vote to be made, or provision a proper system of investigation proper system of thinking so that we can evolve a plan, and stick to a plan which will ultimately make we are use of every single cent that providing for the benefit of our country.

an increased demand Sir, in presenting of money from the general public, should ensure them that we spend it properly.
There should be savings and savings are should try and make realistic estimates We should at the same time people that every single cent that we use will be to their for under "Development" After all, and a and planning to be am not asking for provision not to be misspent.

to be made, to provide for benefit in the future.

projects; I am only ensure the We .

we eness of expenditure.


Sir, you will notice that I have not touched upon all the provisions that have been made for the Police, Defence, and so on, although one could com­ ment on them from the point of view Just of appropriat as an example, Sir, if we look under Head S. 14, Ministry graph 27, you will what I am trying to drive "The Provost training Royal Malaysian Air Force are fitted with an obsolescent VHF transceiver."
Air Force Sir, how old is the Malaysian of Defence, para­ see an example of aircraft at.

It says of the and we have source­ Stores" that it is fitted with obsolete equip­ ment!

We do not quarrel with it, because if it is necessary to improve we must improve; and we do not quarrel item also because with this particular provided the sum of money that is being for under the Supplementary Estimates comes from an appropriate savings from "Air Technical within the Ministry of Defence.
We think that is legitimate nothing to quarrel over that.

However, Sir, savings means savings, sums not spent and later misspent purposes should be so stated.

We can give some examples.

visit of the Honourable to Britain and to the United States on behalf of the nation, which has brought many results, could have been better employed if at that time he had also France.
I not curtailed his visit to increased mean to say that a slightly expenditur a far e would have fulfilled greater scope and that will mean a much more careful planning, and the lightening the people.

Prime Minister of the burden on for some other a saving For example, the Sir, there is another type of instance where we can .

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Mr Speaker: How long are you going to take?

to the question of airlifting I think, humorously Dr Lim Chong Eu: One more item, Sir.
There is another kind of situation where we can make savings.

The Honourable Member for Batu has referred of detainees rather, and in some way trivially; and the Honourable Member for Seberang to the good work Tengah has referred Minister of done by the Honourable the case of Home Affairs in presenting Malaysia at the United Nations.

Sir, I am not talking on foreign policy at this present moment.
But whatever the credit of the outcome of success and ar visit to the United that particul Nations may be, when we are discus­ Supply Bill, we sing the Supplementary must bring to the attention of the somebody must have House that mis­ informed the Minister of External Affairs and the Government to the extent that we spend money equipment, to transport which equipment, military 2309 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2 3 1 0 for Batu criticising Rules and Council the Standing was dropped i n our country b y Indo­ nesia, and that we spend money to carry it all the way to the United and lay it on Nations Security Council only the table of the Security to be asked to take it out because it was against Orders.
Sir, we must certainly have known the properly spent that unnecessary to carry this unnecessary the way to New York and brought back, not being admitted.

type of savings, the kind of attitude mind that we wish the Government maintain expenditure.
advised, we need not have sum of money all exhibit it the That is of to when it asks for increased and, if we were procedure · Sir, yesterday I also heard the of $6,000 of furniture expenditure for the purchase of Finance in Singapore ; and some of the offices under the Honourable Member the estimated required for the Ministry of Commerce and is a fair I do not think this Industry.

criticism.

43-man Last month, I led a Sarawak Trade Mission to Singapore and Malaya.
We had the opportunity of visiting Ministry later we also visited of the Ministry Industry comparison that the present of the Ministry of Commerce and .

The Minis­ Industry try of Commerce and Industry is one in the of the most important Federal Government, see that it is brought up to date not only in furniture well.

capital.
capital.

with· what we saw, I agree in the offices Ministries and we want to of Commerce and By need replacement but other facilities in the national some of the offices furniture as suggested by peaceful with Indonesia I heard the Member for want to talk peace but wants Enche' Tan Tsak Yu (Sarawak): Sir, yesterday Mr Speaker, speech of the Honourable Batu urging the Government to resolve the dispute also from means, and another Member that we the Opposition should have peace and not victory.
These speeches from the Opposition convey the idea that our Government does not war.

Contrary ment has done everything to find a peaceful pute with Indonesia.

the act of aggression by sians, all efforts for peace on our part so far has not been successful.

Those who read this booklet entitled "Indonesian in Eastern Malaysia" Soekarno's aim is to absorb Malaysia and create "Indonesia is the case.

Our Govern­ possible But, because of the Indone­ will be convinced Involvement solution to the dis­ Raya".
that This morning our Honourable is auoted in the Straits Minister to have said: and I quote: "I am quite prepared to meet Soekarno Prime Times to end the present dispute, must respect our sovereignty and integrity and withdraw the troops from our country."

but Indonesia Sir, in the previous Estimates tabled However, in this House, it was found that and almost Sarawak was neglected to the I am grateful forgotten.
Finance Honourable Minister of for the important inclusion for Sarawak in the Supplementary Supply Bill, 1964.

May I be permitted, Sir, to comment on some of the of several items items?

First, I would like to touch on In order and Information.

propa­ the Indonesian Broadcasting to counteract ganda, psychological tial, and the establishment of a warfare team is psychological vitally as the battle is not won in important the battlefield warfare is essen­ but in the men's hearts.
I now come to the Royal Malaysia Police in Sarawak.

At present our Police Force in Sarawak is inadequate to cope with the situation Indonesian number and has a very wide area to look after.

Therefore, it should be strengthened standard and brought up to a Sir.

of efficiency, aggression.


It is small in in view of the which has been Government, by our Prime Minister as and I am sure this This is the attitude maintained well as House will share my view that our Honourable insisting before we troops from our territories talk peace again.

How can we talk peace with our enemies when they are still inside our country?

is right in of Indonesian the withdrawal Prime Minister Sir, I can give an instance to show of the Police Force in the inadequacy Sarawak.
On the night of the 4th October, of His Excellency, Sarawak, extremely of an numerous handbills on seditious the Governor of nature, calling 1 964, the eve of the birthday 231 1 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 231 2 on the walls along the streets throughout imperialists Tunku Abdul the British t o unite and and to the Kuching miles long.

The police at the 24th mile Kuching­ Road was pasted with the people o f Kalimatan rise against our Prime Minister, Rahman, were distributed were the Kuching Town area.
Slogans written and on the road leading Airport-several station Semanagang posters, 24th mile not belonging political painted with black the places some distance from the magnitude they must have mobilised a few hundred people to do the job.

Sir, if we had enough Police area, the incident, might not have occurred.

to patrol the which is described, and signboards of shops at the party were taken down and paint and thrown at of the work done, away.
Judging to a certain minta kapada Dewan yang mulia ini meluluska n. saya Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sekarang hendak menyentoh Head C. 1 2- Charges on Account of Public Debt sa­ banyak $75,000 dalam Command Paper 29.Wang ini untok membayar bunga dan lain2 lagi yang bersangkut-paut dengan perkara hutang yang Kerajaan kita telah berhutang daripada Kerajaan German.
Kita maseh ingat lagi dalam awal tahun 1 964 apabila kita telah membahathkan Budget tahun 1 964 kita telah dapat ketahui: dan melihat sen­ diri bahawa 12 peratus daripada sa­ itu telah kalian wang peruntokan di-gunakan untok membayar hutang sahaja.

Kalau sa-kira-nya perjalanan Kerajaan terus berhutang ka-satu masa dan daripada satu ketika ka-satu ketika, maka wang untok hen­ dak di-belanjakan bagi kemajuan ne­ gara nampak-nya akan kerana kebanyakan daripada wang perbelanj membayar bunga sahaja.
aan itu perlu di-untokkan terganggu, daripada satu the Honourable congratulate of Finance for making this Sir, I Minister allocation Police Force in Sarawak, the Supplementary a whole.

Thank you, Sir.

to strengthen Supply Bill, 1 964, as the Royal and I support Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah sadikit bahagian Hilir): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, mengambil Rang Undang2 Perbekalan (Kelantan saya suka di-dalam Tambahan yang di-kemukakan semen­ jak sa-malam lagi.
Di-dalam perba­ hathan ini saya akan menyentoh Kepala2 sa-bagaimana yang ada ter­ sebut dalam Command Paper 2 8 d a n 29.

Malang-nya oleh Kerajaan bukan-la pula, Tuan Yang di­ ranchangan2 Pertua, banyak daripada h yang di-buat atau mem­ ranchangan yang productive beri basil, maka itu-lah satu perkara yang saya suka hendak menegor apabila Paper 29 banyak perkara2 membeli furniture an.
di-katakan bagi semua Kementeri perbelanjaan kita tengok di-dalam Command dan lain2 lagi boleh kali yang kedua Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kelmarin kita permin­ membahathkan bagi Ranchangan baharu selesai taan wang tambahan Kemajuan Yang Kedua.

Pada hari ini pula kita di-minta untok meluluskan wang tambahan bagi perbelanjaan tahun 1 964.
Ini ada-lah tambahan yang telah di-minta oleh Kerajaan, sa-bagaiman terangkan wang yang akan di-belanjakan untok tahun ini lebeh daripada Nampak-nya telah tegor dahulu Kerajaan tidak-lah mengadakan teliti tatkala awal tahun.

Pendek-nya, kerja Kerajaan berhajat nampak-nya kapada wang pada masa itu-lah di­ di- belanjakan kemudian baharu-lah satu penyelidekan estimates mengadakan sa-bagaimana yang saya oleh wakil terburu2, a yang telah di­ Batu jumlah $ 1,600 j uta.
yang di­ apabila Di-bawah Head S. 1 6-Ministry of Fans.

Sudah ada air-condition External Affairs ada di-sebut belanja $6,000 untok Air-Conditioners Ceiling hendak di-pakai nyejokkan tahu-lah kalau j alankan oleh pehak yat-lah nya ra'a juga kipas untok me­ bilek itu.

Jadi, saya tidak belanja yang bagini di­ Kerajaan nampak­ yang akan menderita and .
Baharu2 ini kita surat­ bacha dalam khabar bahawa Yang Berhormat Men­ teri Kewangan membuat satu kenyataan di-Melaka ia-itu Kerajaan harus akan menambah chukai ka-atas anak negeri.

Pendek kata, di-dalam datang ini ra'ayat akan menanggong sa-berat2 tanggongan kerana chukai yang lebeh banyak lagi akan di-kena­ kan ka-atas ra'ayat.
pandang dari segi kehidupan kalau kita ra'ayat tahun yang akan Wal hal 231 3 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 231 4 ra'ayat bilangan makin sa­ Baharu2 ini dalam surat-khabar bahawa orang2 yang mengang­ ada-lah kehidupan hari sa-makin menderita.

ada tersiar ada-lah gor hampir 1 00,000.

Angka 100,000 ini ia-lah orang yang menganggor yang nama-nya di-Pejabat mendaftarkan Buroh.
Ada pun penganggor yang dudok di-kampong2 yang tidak mendaf­ tarkan diri mereka 1tu sa-bagai pe­ mereka i nganggor lebeh daripada 1 00,000 orang banyak­ nya.

Ada-kah Kerajaan telah membuat satu ranchangan kehidupan tidak ada kerja itu?

untok memperbaiki ribu orang yang bilangan beratus2 ada-lah tu The Minister of Transport (Dato' Sir, on (3).
Yang Berhor­ Hilir itu berchakap hendak beri kerja; fasal hawa penyejok Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir): a point of order-67 mat dari Kelantan fasal ranchangan tadi dia berchakap dan kipas; jadi tidak kena pada tempat-nya.

Kalau mengikut Order 67 (3) ada-lah berkenaan sahaja.

yang ada dalam Bill ini Standing benda2 yang di-bahathkan dengan peruntokan Mr Speaker: Itu saya tidak suka dengar.

Bila saya sudah tegor itu jangan chakap lagi.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Saya minta dia tarek balek-s mengerti.
aya Mr Speaker: Saya sudah larang perkara itu.

jelata di-dalam Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-bagaimana tadi beratus yang baharu saya sebutkan ribu ra'ayat negeri ini tidak ada mempunyai kerja.

Walau pun Kerajaan kita ada mempunyai Unit dan National Planning Planning Council, mereka itu telah buat untok membela nasib beratus ribu orang di-dalam negeri ini yang tidak ada kerja.
Economic tetapi apa-kah yang da­ Baharu2 ini kita telah mendengar khabar bahawa lam surat banyak pula harga2 makanan, harga yang telah pakaian naik melangit2 menjadikan kesusahan dan banyak-lah orang2 kampong kita yang telah me­ rayu hal di-atas ini.

kesusahan sa-nya untok menambah dua Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, second reading.
we are on the Sekarang saya berpaling kapada Command Paper 29, Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Mr Speaker, I am calling and I want your ruling, for order now please.

Mr Speaker: Standing Order nombor berapa?


Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Speaker, sebutkan: 67 (3) di-sini ada di­ "After the motion for the second reading of the Bill has been proposed and seconded the debate thereon may proceed forthwith but shall be confined to the general prin­ ciples of Government policy and adminis­ tration as indicated appropriations estimates", included in the Bill and by the supplementary and not otherwise.
Mr Speaker: Saya suka menerangkan ia-itu Ahli Yang Berhormat berchakap sadikit dalam dasar 'am.

sebab perkara itu itu boleh Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Yang Berhormat itu tidak Nampak-nya mengerti.

barang2 sana.

ba­ di-London Kerajaan Pusat membeli sakalian Crown Agent di-London of Commerce and ada .
Di-sini nampak-nya bagi Trade Com­ sana, nampak-nya baik tetapi kita muka 1 1 daripada Head S. 1 3 , Ministry Industry peruntokan orang lagi Assistant missioner memang sangat-lah maseh ingat lagi bahawa sa-nya Kera­ jaan Pusat membeli sakalian sa-hingga pencil ini ada-lah di-beli melalui Crown Agent rang2 untok keperluan dan telah di-bayar pada tiap2 tahun kapada Crown Agent mereka kapada ini bagi perkhidmatan Kerajaan kita.

Kalau sa-kira-nya Agent ini membeli barang2 lagi di-adakan Trade Commissioner ini?
Kalau sa-kira-nya Kerajaan hen­ dak membuat propaganda supaya barang2 export kita dapat di-lebehkan export-nya ka-London sana, itu sangat­ lah baik tetapi biar-lah pula menjalankan missioner sedang di-jalankan oleh Crown Agent di-London kita membeli barang2 tadi.
Tidak ada guna-nya telah menjalankan tugas ini apa-kah guna-nya tugas yang daripada pehak ribu ringgit beratus2 Trade Com­ Crown 231 5 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2 3 1 6 walhal barang2-nya mahal; di­ lnggeris dalam negeri lain barang2 itu lebeh nmrah dan lebeh baik lagi mutu-nya.

Satu lagi saya suka hendak menye­ da­ itu.

Tetapi sahaan kain Yang Berhor­ protection-ma di-beri protection batek di-negeri Kelantan.

dia atau pun supaya dengan ada-nya defi­ dapat-lah saalah butkan tentang protection.
Saya telah bangkitkan lam tiga empat tahun dahulu soal perusahaan Maka j awapan daripada mat Menteri Perdagangan berkata, sedang mengkaji satu ta'rif definition nition ini, kapada kain batek-peru batek yang ada di-Kelantan sudah dua tahun dan sekarang tahun yang ketiga maseh definition belum dapat di-buat lagi.
Walhal Kerajaan ada mempunyai: mempunyai: economist, dan lain2 lagi yang kalau betul2 Kera­ jaan jujor hendak membuat definition maka dengan ada-nya definition lah di-buat berapa segera, dengan senang-nya dapat di-beri usahaan orang Melayu di-dalam Pertua, ada-lah di-Kelantan professor, ada mempunyai: technician ada mempunyai: dan kapada per­ yang terbiar kain batek ada memberi .

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orang2 ini dapat­ itu dengan sa­ negeri ini.


Tuan Yang di­ masok itu perusahaan protection ada expert, prolong this debate and waste the time of this House.

Mr Speaker: Sunggoh pun dalam 66 menyatakan itu Standing Order berkenaan dasar 'am pentadbiran Kerajaan, tetapi pada fahaman saya reference yang di-nyatakan oleh Menteri Kewangan itu j angan-lah teruskan lagi.
di­ Head S. 1 4 dengan kuat-nya perkara Kemente­ lagi pertahanan untok ntokan supaya dapat di­ Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: saya negara kita dari­ yang datang daripada Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sekarang hendak menyentoh rian Pertahanan di-bawah di-muka 1 3-Command Paper nombor 29.

Saya menyokong bagi peru perkokohkan menjaga keselamatan pada anchaman luar.
Pendek kata saya daripada tahun 1 96 1 dan 1 962 telah membangkitkan perkara2 yang saya telah buat sugges­ tion dan permintaan yang bersangku satu kilang untok senjata paya dengan ada-nya negara kita lah kita kita dengan lebeh baik lagi, tidak-lah berharap2 sa-hingga sampai sa-butir mesti kita nanti dari luar peluru pun negeri daripada Australia atau dari­ pada negeri lnggeris.

Kalau sa-kira­ nya peperangan dan England di-mana kita akan dapat peluru itu?
kapada Menteri di-dirikan kechil su­ kilang ini dapat­ mempertahankan berlaku di-Australia tan supaya Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I rise on another point of order.

Under what appropriation particular the Honourable Member speaking?

of the vote is Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Defence.

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Which one?

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: policy.


on the general I am speaking of Finance The Minister (Enche' Tan Siew Sin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order under Standing 67 (3), which reads as follows: Order "After the motion for the second reading of the Bill has been proposed and seconded the debate thereon may proceed forthwith but shall b e confined to the general principles of Government policy and administration appropria­ by the supplementary indicated tions included in the Bill and estimates."
as now is touching on the textile The meaning of this provision, Mr Speaker, Sir, is that Honourable Mem­ bers can only touch on subjects which are included in the present Supple­ mentary Supply Bill.
As far as I can see, the Honourable Member who is speaking industry in Kelantan, but no money is asked for this in the present and I suggest, Sir, that you confine this debate strictly mentary Supply Bill instead of allowing Honourable Members to roam at will as if this were an ordinary annual Budget debate, to because that would serve only to this Supple­ Bill belum?
Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Chairman, Sir, I tried to inform the Honourable Member that he can only speak on the general policy of an item for which additional expenditure quested.

He cannot speak on the general policy of a Head, because is not a full scale Budget debate.

this is re­ Mr Speaker: Sudah habis atau 231 7 1 5 OCTOBER 1964 2318 Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: bachakan sadikit sahaja Belum lagi, Tuan Yang kerana saya di-usek2 (Ketawa), saya tidak lupa, ada di-sini.
Malaysi a telah terbang ka-Canada d i-bawah tetapi "Sa-bagai di-Pertua, chontoh baharu2 ini penuntut2 Saya akan lagi.

biasiswa Ranchangan Colombo untok me- Mr Speaker: Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Tolong pendekkan.

lanjutkan pelajaran di-dalam jurusan Sain dan pendidekan Sain.

Daripada 13 orang hanya sa-orang M elayu sahaja yang di-beri scholarship."
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, baharu2 ini telah kita bacha satu siaran dalam bahawa saya konon surat khabar telah memberi seruan kapada orang kampong, j angan mengambil bahagian dalam pertahanan kampong, itu ada­ lah satu fitnah yang di-buat oleh surat khabar.

Jadi di-sini pemberita2 saya dalam Rumah yang bahagia ini di-hadapan saya hendak menyebutkan saya tidak mengeluarkan yang bagitu.
muka 14. wakil2 ra'ayat bahawa perkataan saya menyentoh Sekarang sekelian Ini satu lagi chontoh kapada kita jelata orang2 Melayu bahawa ra'ayat Kerajaan Perikatan dalam perkara untok membela nasib orang2 Melayu.
telah kechiwa Baharu ini saya telah sebutkan per­ kara rumah murah, dan telah di-jawab oleh wakil dari Saberang Tengah dan Pulau Pinang Selatan, tetapi alham­ dulillah dalam surat khabar hari ini bahawa jawapan mereka menyebabkan sendiri tertutup membantah yang tidak betul kan oleh wakil mereka itu sendiri dalam Rumah ini.
di-atas j awapan yang telah di-keluar­ akan mengadakan satu rapat itu telah 35 chawangan UMNO Akhir-nya saya hendak berchakap Dr Lim Swee Aun: Sir, on a point of clarificat able Member be prepared he is prepared ion, would the Honour­ to say that to fight Indonesia?

Toan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: I think we will be the first to fight Indonesia.

Mr Speaker: Sudah habis?

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Saya belum habis lagi (Ketawa).

Mr Speaker: Jemput-lah ramai Ahli2 Yang Berhormat hendak berchakap.
Habiskan-lah (Ketawa).

, kerana ada yang rengkaskan Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: saya Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sekarang berchakap di-muka 14 dalam Kemen­ terian Pelajaran.

Di-bawah elaun guru dan lain2 lagi, perkara yang bersang­ kutan dengan tambahan wang sa­ banyak $2,580, cian lain2 lagi perbe­ Saya di-sini lanjaan di-minta di-sini.

suka hendak menyebutkan satu per­ kara yang kechil sahaja, saya minta­ lah kapada Tuan Yang di-Pertua, mengizink sadikit sahaja surat khabar ini.
an saya membachakan yang merunsing­ Kelantan.

Di-sana nam­ third degree method, , orang itu tentang perkara Royal Malaysia Saya menerima kaseh di-atas Police.
tugas2 yang telah di-jalankan oleh polis di-dalam Tanah Ayer kita ini, tetapi ada kejadian2 kan fikiran kita telah berlaku lebeh2 lagi di-negeri pak-nya sekarang ini polis telah menggunakan ia-itu apabila di-tangkap sa-belum di-tanya Baharu ini ada orang watchman satu store, di-Kota Bharu telah mendapat kechurian dia mereportkan pehak polis, kapada polis telah di-tangkap dan di­ rejam dan di-pukul tiga suku nyawa.

Perkara ini sudah di-bawa ka-dalam Mahkamah untok kan. di-bichara apa2 terus di-pukul.
satu kejadian ia-itu tetapi dia yang mereport perkara ini kapada sa-hingga sampai dan Dalam Pilehan Raya di-Tumpat , orang2 PAS di-panggil ka­ baru2 ini polis station, dan di-tudoh mereka menchuri ayam, di-pukul dan di­ tumbok dan di-tahan petang kemudian baru di-lepask kerja2 yang Kalau bagini nampak-nya di-jalankan oleh polis maka demo­ karasi yang kita junjong tinggi itu dari pagi hingga an.

"Anak2 Melayu dengan biasiswa ran­ changan Colombo sangat di-kesalkan.
Tiap2 kali rombongan penuntut2 dari Malaysia pelajaran keluar negeri dengan melanjutkan biasiswa Colombo , maka sentiasa hati orang Melayu berasa sedeh."

231 9 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2320 dari Batu itu di­ ini, kerana chinta-nya me­ Batu itu, hanya panggil ahli nujum, ahli bertapa, bomoh dan pawang.
Kalau ini-lah dunia yang hendak di­ adakan dan di-wujudkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat Malaysia limpah2 kapada Indonesia Malaysia muda, ta' payah-lah kita yang di-minta terima peruntokan sa­ bagaimana yang di-kehendaki oleh beliau itu.

Tetapi kita dalam dunia maju, kita hendak j ag a kechekapan bekerja di-pejabat, dan kita hendak j aga kehormatan bagi negara kita.

diri yang sa-timbal tua, atau nama sahaja, dan kita demokrasi akan tinggal akan menjadii yang akan di-chachi oleh bangsa2 dalam dunia ini.
Sakian-lah sahaja, Tuan Yang di-Pertua.

yang kejam Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail (Kuala sa­ uchapan2 dan membangkang dari pehak mendengar Trengganu Utara): Tuan Yang di­ Pertua, bila saya mendengar dad Ahli2 Yang Berhormat , saya rasa pembangkang lagu sumbang, mereka itu sa-mata2 ka-Dewan ini untok memuntahkan bangkangan mata2 kerana hendak membangkang.
Dari sa-malam dari Batu berchakap Ahli Yang Berhormat dan Ahli Yang Berhormat Ahli Yang Berhormat dan Ahli Yang tan Hilir, saya ta' nampak titek-berat daripada bena, melainkan menghentam apa sahaja yang boleh di-hentam, walau itu perkara yang baik.
pun perkara sampai kapada dari Bachok dari lpoh, Ahli Yang Berhormat mereka itu mem­ Berhormat uchapan2 Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada dan memberi warna dan Menteri Muda-nya saya rasa beliau sa-orang umpama-nya, bila kita mendengar uchapan-nya, Ahli yang paling tidak bertanggong­ j awab, bangkang sa-mata2 kerana membangkang hitam kapada perkara yang puteh, yang necessity sa­ mengechap perkara bagai perkara Tidak yang berlebehan2.
ada-kah soal lain Ahli Batu hendak mengecham sa-lain soal titek bengik: soal alat pejabat Menteri Perdagangan yang terpaksa alat rumah Menteri Muda Pertanian yang baharu dan baharu pun pindah ka-Kuala Lumpur dari Perak.

Tidak ada lain cherita dia mahu kita mengikuti di-zaman Seriwijaya, di-zaman pahit, zaman Gajah Mada, di-mana segala pejabat di-jalankan di-rumah2 yang di-dirikan daripada buloh dengan tidak beralatkan hanya sa-bidang tikar dan tepak sireh.
Semua orang dudok bersila, sambil mengunyah2 sireh, sambil mengemukakan duan, atau menjalankan atau apa2 lain urusan negara.

Dan kalau sakit ta' payah panggil macham Ahli Yang Berhormat sa-buah datang doctor, dari nampak-nya.
Ada-kah penga­ an, Indonesia perbichara apa2 pun, Maja­ dari Batu, Lagi pula, patut-kah perkara ini di­ oleh Ahli Yang itu ada di-situ Tidak-kah ini akan di-guna­ sa-olah2 memberikan dari Tanjong dari Kelan­ timbulkan Berhormat itu dengan chara yang di-buat-nya pada masa ini, gambaran bahawa pejabat Menteri yang berkenaan itu di-salut d engan emas dan intan, bukan dengan alat2 biasa yang sa-benar-nya sekarang.

?
?

Tidak­ kan oleh di'ayah Indonesia kah ini bererti Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Batu itu menolong di'ayah nesia?

Bagitu juga ten tang soal pejabat Kementerian katakan-nya Ahli Yang Berhormat hidup di-Kuala Kuala Lumpur, dan tahu bahawa sewa rumah di-Kuala Lumpur ini, atau di-Petaling Jaya, kalau rumah yang elok sadikit tiga bilek, sewa-nya sampai $700; $ 800; $900-itu untok satu family, satu keluarga-ini sa-buah Kementerian di-ganti baharu2 ini, haru di-buat.

kan sewa yang sadikit itu di-katakan mahal?


dari Batu itu Lumpur, bekerja di­ untok besar yang ba­ mahal sangat sewa-nya.

Ada-kah patut di-kata­ entah $ 1,000 lebeh Belia yang di­ Indo­ Satu lagi perkara yang di-timbulkan Batu Kerajaan soal bantuan sa-mula oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari sa-malam ia-lah kita kapada soal pembenaan Tugu Nubia di-Masir.

Ahli Yang Ber­ hormat dari Tanjong pun membang­ kang j uga dalam perkara ini.
Ini lagi lagi menunjokkan bangkangan-ini satu chontoh bagaimana Ahli2 Yang Berhormat itu sa-chara tidak langsong menyokong buat ini ia-lah untok memberi sum­ bangan kapada Tugu Nubia, ia-itu satu gesture daripada kita, tanda ker­ j asama kita kapada Masir.

Masir Indonesia.

Apa yang kita 2321 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2322 di-karam­ satu lubok tamaddun yang tua oleh seluroh dunia.
hendak menyelamat­ ada-lah yang di-minati Mereka berusaha kan Tugu Nubia daripada kan oleh limpahan ayer Ampangan Aswan; hendak menyelamatkan kesan sejarah yang besar yang berguna kapada dunia seluroh-nya.

Sekarang berdiri kita nampak bahawa Masir di-belakang dengan kita dalam perjuangan, ini.

mati kita dengan Indonesia kita, bersimpati hidup atau satu yang melarang sa-suatu perkara yang ta ' Ta' ada siapa berhenti.
sa-saorang itu hendak berhenti dari­ pada menjadi Ahli Dewan, sebab rasa merajok, atau marah sangat, atau sebab ada sa-orang Ahli yang tertentu berchakap senang kapada dia.

Dasar Kerajaan terang dalam perkara kerjasama kita dengan seluroh ra'ayat-PAS atau tidak PAS, dan lain2 parti Pembang­ Kalau dia hendak kang, sudah terang.

marah juga, kerana ada uchapan yang kurang enak daripada sa-saorang yang tertentu-dan henti-lah-ta' kapada kami !
Hendak adakan pilehan raya sa-mula pun, kami boleh kempen balek, ta' apa.

usah-lah mengadu hendak berhenti, ber­ Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Batu itu Tugu Nubia, ta' tunjokkan simpati kita ta' mahu kita bantu mahu kita dengan Masir supaya Masir ta• sokong kita, supaya Masir sokong Indonesia.

Ahli Yang Maka dengan sendiri-nya Berhormat dari Batu ada-lah orang yang sa-umpama Burong Nuri Indo­ nesia dalam Dewan ini yang menya­ nyikan lagu yang di-rentakkan oleh Jakarta.
Kapada PAS sa-benar-nya Ran­ Yang Kedua­ changan Pembangunan Ranchangan Pembangunan Lima yang sedang, atau Tahun Yang Kedua akan di-lancharkan sekarang ini akan menjadi batu ujian yang besar.

Tuhan memang nampak, kita hendak me­ nengok-bagi hendak menengok-sa-takat kerjasama yang PAS dalam perkara ini dan sama2-lah nanti kita tengok.

pehak Kerajaan Pusat akan di-beri oleh mana Bagitu juga saudara saya Ahli Yang sendiri, Menteri Dalam Negeri ta' faham.
Dia berkata ketika dia ka-Bangsa2 Bersatu Berhormat dari Bachok.

Saya sa­ malam bila mendengar uchapan-nya saya ta' erti apa hendak di-katakan­ nya, apa maksud dia, dia sendiri pun barangkali Kerajaan lebeh memandang perda­ maian dari kemenangan.

Dia pula menyalahkan yang memberi kenyataan hendak berangkat bahawa kita akan mempertahankan diri sendiri dengan usaha kalau Majlis Keselamatan mengambil keputusan yang tidak memuaskan kapada kita.

Apa-kah maksud beliau berkata Menteri itu bagitu?


Salah-kah berkata demikian ?

Ada-kah Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Bachok itu mahu kalau-lah tusan Majlis Keselamatan Bersatu itu tidak memuaskan kita, maka kita ta' usah mempertahankan diri kita, berserah sahaja kapada Jakarta.

Maka dia juga, dengan ta' di-sedari, telah menyanyi­ kan lagu Burong Kakak Tua Indone­ siai dalam Dewan ini, menyanyi Jakarta.
buat apa2; ta' usah umpama-nya kepu­ Bangsa2 rentak Dia pula berkata hendak berhenti dari menjadi Ahli Dewan ini; berhenti­ lah, siapa larang.

Kenapa chakap kapada kami semua yang dia hendak Ahli Yang Berhormat dari lpoh yang dia berkata hujah Indonesia.

banyak dan panjang.

dari fooh Ahli point dalam yang saya dengar, saya tadi berchakap Ada satu perkara-satu uchapan-nya hampir ta' perchaya bagitu.
Dia berkata bahawa Russia veto di-Bangsa2 Bersatu menggunakan itu ia-lah kerana soal kita saperti yang di-kemukakan oleh Menteri Dalam Negeri itu tidak lojik.

Jadi, kalau bagitu Ahli Yang Berhormat pun menyokong Yang Berhormat lama ini menjadi sa- Jakarta, anti-Indonesia, sa-mena2 hari ini kita dengar dia menyokong hujah dan alasan Indo­ nesia.

Entah dia pun juga mahu jadi Indonesia dalam Dewan Burong Nuri ini, saya ta' tahu, kerana ini sangat menyedehkan.
Chorak yang sa-benar­ nya dari sa-saorang itu kadang2 ter­ keluar dan ternampak pada masa dan ketika sa-saorang itu tidak sedar­ keluar dengan dari mulut Ahli Yang Berhormat dari lpoh yang sa­ orang yang anti­ dengan tidak sendiri saperti terkeluar dari 2323 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2324 keritik.

jangan-lah itu hak penoh bagi-nya­ Kerajaan dari segala segi, mengkeritik Ipoh tadi.

Dia mahu hak Kerajaan.
Dia dudok mengkeritik sa­ lama ini, kerja lain ta' ada, kerja mengkeritik mengkeritik atas bawah, kiri kanan, belakang depan, utara selatan-suka dia meng­ Chuma kalau hendak keritik, keritik, jadi Burong Nuri Indonesia, kerana kalau Kerajaan ini dari­ Pembangkang mahu menchekek , saperti yang di-tudoh pada bersuara dengan dusta-nya itu dalam Dewan ini, dia tidak boleh kerana dia ada-lah dari satu parti yang paling tidak bertang­ gong-jawab '.lt�u domestic problem dalam negeri ada dalam Dewan ini, dalam soaF dalam negeri, Pembangkang Jill .
Ahli Yang Berhormat chuba hendak memberi bayangan bahawa usaha Kerajaan kita membawa alat2 pencheroboh Indonesia .

.

.

.

dari Tanjong Mr Speaker: tetapi tidak semua.

Kalau sadikit2 boleh.

Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: , Tuan Yang Sadikit2 di-P'ertua.

Kalau kami hendak di-napikan hak ini, ta' ada ma'ana lagi kami dudok di-sini.

.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua Tuan Yang di-Pertua, mengenai: Yang Berhormat dari Kelantan satu dua perkara yang saya hendak berchakap.
Dia pun kadang2, kalau saya berchakap, memang ta' diam.

Ahli Hilir­ India-kah, Indonesia-kah.

Dia marah sangat fasal berhutang.

akan di-jawab oleh tetapi saya hendak : Negeri2 lain, ta' Soal dasar-nya Menteri Kewangan, berkata bagini-lah ada satu pun yang ta' ada berhutang­ Masir-kah, berpuloh2 million hutang untok pembangunan, dan ini akan memajukan negara kita.

Ta' usah­ lah ini di-jadikan modal politik, ini modal politik PAS, Tuan Yang di­ Pertua.

Di-merata2 tempat dan kam­ pong ini-lah ada.


modal dia, modal lain ta' ringgit berhutang; Sir, on a point of Enche' Lim Kean Siew (Dato order.

I that the Honourable Kramat): understand Ministers will be replying noon.

Is the Honourable Member replying this morning on behalf of the Ministers this after­ ?

oleh pehak2 nanti Menteri2 Mr Speaker: Ya, saya juga suka kapada Ahli a-lah hujah2, atau hendak mengingatkan Yang Berhormat-ad soal2 yang di-datangkan ini, Yang Berhormat akan menjawab.
Takut jawapan2 yang Ahli Yang Berhormat takut bertelingkah ini.

Jadi, d alam oleh Menteri2 berikan ini saya minta-lah Ahli Yang masaalah nyatakan di­ Berhormat tolong-lah dalam peruntokan ini tentang dasar2 Kerajaan sahaja, ta' usah-lah di-jawab itu, sebab itu hak Menteri nanti dari­ pada pukul 4.30 sa menjawab-nya.
dengan apa yang di­ mpai 6.30 untok itu menjawab Tuan Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Yang di-Pertua, kami j uga berhak menjawab bagi pehak Kerajaan, kerana kami bukan dudok di-pehak Pembang­ Kerajaan, kena kang.

Dia mengatakan juga pada kami sadikit, dan saya tidak menjawab dari semua segi, hanya satu dua perkara yang saya rasa boleh saya berikan sadikit untok pandangan.

hendak pasang Dia marah lagi fasal Luar di-Kementerian alat pendingin Negeri.
Kenapa bilek Menteri Besar PAS Kelantan tidak-kah ada alat pen­ ingin?

Sa ya sudah masok bilek itu, alat pendingin alat itu, kalau tidak suka lah sama orang lain pakai alat pendingin atau kipas.

Kita negeri panas, kita hendak orang bekerja boleh berfikir dengan tenang, maka alat harus ada, Tuan Yang di-Pertua.

pun ada, champakkan­ dan kemudahan Saya pula terperanj at hari ini men­ dengar Yang Berhormat dari Kelantan Hilir chuba hendak memomokkan fasal barang2 hendak naik dan kain hendak naik.
Ini perkara yang saya hadapi dalam kawasan saya di-tempat saya di-Pantai Timor.

Ada orang yang tertentu pada masa ini pergi ka-merata2 tempat mengambil tasi; dia kata jaga2 sadikit kita hendak susah ni, kain hendak mahal, beli chepat2.

Tujuan dia j ual laku, pun boleh masok.


Saya shak dan churiga boleh j adi Yang Berhormat Hilir ini-lah ahli yang mengemudikan dari Kelantan salah sa-orang perkara ini dan di'ayah politik barangkali supaya kain dia peluang konferan­ 2325 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2326 dari belakang, untok pada ra'ayat Timor.
membuat kachau pada masa ini di-Pantai hingga kita telah menang di-Per­ di­ sidangan Negara2 Berkechuali Cairo baharu2 ini dengan tidak payah kita hadhir di-persidangan itu dengan rasmi, dan saya suka juga menyampai­ kan tahniah kapada pegawai2 berkenaan dengan sa-penoh-nya.

yang menjalankan yang tugas-nya yang di­ kapada tambahan Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kembali yang di-hadapan yang ada pada Indonesia, walau macham ia-Iah untok menghadapi kapada peruntokan kita ini.
P'eruntokan minta untok Kementerian Pertahanan barangkali suasana konferantasi hari ini.

Saya suka menyatakan Dewan yang mulia ini bahawa kon­ ferantasi mana besar di-lancharkan, akan han­ chor, kita akan buru, Malaysia akan burn pencheroboh2 Indonesia, sa-bagaimana Aidit mem­ buru tikus2-nya tidak mahu mengeringkan nesia yang kita buru di-sini itu, sa­ bagaimana di-Bali itu untok di-bawa makan ka­ Jakarta.

tikus Aidit mengeringkan di-Bali.


Chuma kita kita ra'ayat tikus2 Indo­ Say a sangat-lah suka hati membacha akhir yang di-utus oleh yang ini-Iah terus-menerus yang di-siarkan pada surat perutusan Yang Amat Berhormat Perdana Menteri kita kapada President Nasser sa-bagaimana hari ini.

Gesture saperti harus kita Iakukan dari masa ka-masa untok kita memenangi Afro-Asia di-sabelah kita.
Dan saya rasa dalam suasana yang sekarang rombongan yang hendak di-hantar oleh Kenijaan ka-Afrika itu sa-suai-lah ini Bangsa2 hantar, dan juga pada masa Bersatu pun akan memulakan sidang baharu pada bulan November ini, dan harus-Iah kita memainkan peranan yang sunggoh besar dalam persidangan itu bagi memenangi lagi sokongan lebeh besar kapada perjuangan hidup ini.
mati kita dengan Indonesia ini, yang di­ hanchor, ia-itu tempat di-mana ada banyak orang2 yang berasal dari Indonesia, ta'at setia-ny kita memberi tabek yang sa-besar2-nya kapada mereka.
kerana mereka itu sa-bulat a kapada negara kita, d an Di-Pantai Barat pencheroboh2 itu Dalam muka 17 ada peruntokan yang kerana membayar belanja sa-bagaimana Saya beri amaran utusan baharu ka­ orang kapada penchero­ kapada regime Sukarno itu kita mengkechai2 boh2 Indonesia, dan Aidit, jangan datang ka-Pantai Timor, jangan hampir di-Pantai Timor, kami akan kechai2kan pencheroboh (Tepok) timun.
Ahli2 Yang Berhormat tentu sama dengan saya kalau saya berkata bahawa kita semua Ahli Dewan ini bersedia mara ka-hadapan bersama ra'ayat menentang pencherobohan ber­ Indonesia.

Saya minta Kerajaan setuju menerima Ahli2 Parlimen sa­ bagai pegawai yang bertauliah dalam Kita tidak ingin Tentera Wataniah.

satu inchi pun bumi kita di-jajah Sukarno dan Aidit.

Kapada Sukarno dan Aidit saya hadiahkan pantun, Tuan Yang di-Pertua: termakan nangka di-minta utusan Lee Kuan Yew ka-Afrika d ahulu.
Saya rasa dalam masa kita hendak menghantar Afrika, tidak usah-lah kita pileh macham Lee Kuan Yew ini, kerana sa­ benar-nya sa-kali, sa-panjang saya dapat tinjau sadikit sa-banyak tempoh hari, sa-orang saperti Lee Kuan Yew ini lebeh mengutamakan d i'ayah untok diri-nya.
Dalam men­ jalankan perkara ini saya rasa di'ayah berjalan, tetapi untok Malaysia untok diri-nya pun berjalan di-negeri2 Afrika; dan orang sa-bagai ini saya rasa tidak payah-lah keperchayaan kapada-nya mimpin utusan saperti lagi kita memberi untok me­ Pada muka 1 7 juga ada satu per­ itu ka-Afrika.

di'ayah sa-buah yang oleh J angan tuan Nanti tangan terkena getah Jangan tuan salah sangka Kami anak-chuchu Hang Tuah.
Saya suka juga mengambil kesem­ memberi tahniah kapada patan ini kebijaksanaan Kerajaan memainkan dasar luar-nya pada masa ini, sa- untokan yang di-minta sa-banyak $ 1 44,935 kerana belanja Persidangan Tiga negara Kemun­ chak.

Saya rasa kita bersetuj persidangan dan telah terbukti bahawa kita ada-Iah negara yang suka berunding, di-Persidangan u-Iah kita j alankan kapada dunia tetapi saya suka ingatkan itu sudah 2327 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2328 lagi pada masa akan lakukan.
Saya harap perkara ini tidak akan berulang datang.

Saya merayu supaya dari sekarang negeri atau publicity perluaskan j uga penyiaran dengan sa-luas2-nya .

untok luar ka-luar negeri di­ Saya merasa pada masa ini lagu ia­ untok mem­ negara.
Kenapa yang ber­ saperti lagu "sumpah pen­ lah satu alat yang besar bangunkan semangat tidak boleh lagu2 kebangsaan semangat dekar" karangan Shaifulbahari kita dengar dalam radio itu di­ sebarkan menerusi kerjasama Kementerian Kebudayaan, Belia dan Sokan ka-seluroh negara kita.

Ini akan merupakan suatu gera­ kan untok menaikkan yang semangat kuat kapada ra'ayat Kelab2 Belia dengan seluroh-nya.
yang u perundingan lanjut di­ sa-bagai Ahli Dewan ini bahawa kami tidak bersetuj adakan, belanja lain di-minta berunding dengan pencheroboh2 Sukarno dan sa-lagi tikus2 Sukarno maseh ada di-tanah ayer kita ini.

Mereka mesti di-tarek balek dan tidak ada tolak ansor sadikit ini.
pun dalam perkara , kerana Sukarno, sa-lagi beberapa kechaman kapada-nya, dan Penyiaran Menyentoh tentang soal penerangan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka menyampaikan pujian kapada Kemen­ terian Penerangan bahawa semenjak maka seka­ di-hadapkan rang kita nampak sa-makin baik dan segala usaha di-jalankan oleh Kemen­ terian itu dalam bidang menghadapi konferantasi Jaba­ T.V.

dan nya, filam negera-nya, tan Penerangan-nya.


Suatu filam yang sangat baik dan berkesan ia-lah filam "Peristiwa Kalabakan" yang di-mana2 pun di-tunjokkan filam itu tahu-lah kejam­ di-kampong bagaimana ra'ayat Indonesia itu.

nya pencherobohan ini, baik dari segi radio­ Satu perkara yang saya minta.

?

: Saya kebanyakan Sekarang ini saya nampak negeri dalam Malaya sudah dapat T.V.-Pantai Timor bila lagi hendak merayu, kerana saya dengar ada kata tahun 1 967, ada yang kata tahun 1 968 baharu hendak sampai.
Lambat sangat, Kalau boleh usaha Kerajaan biar-lah di-jalankan dengan chepat kerana Pantai Barat dengan Pantai sekarang Timor tidak ada berbeza, supaya Pantai Timor itu j uga dapat menikmati dengan sa-berapa Tuan Yang di-Pertua.

segera.

T.V.
segera.

T.V.

kursus2 anti-konferantasi Chogan kata itu ia-lah untok Bagitu juga Jabatan Penerangan ini tidak a tempat, -lah di-sambong bangsawan di-udara, usaha dan saya harap j adi sa-bagai sandiwara, sa-bagai radio, chogan2 kata sa-bagai lagu sandi­ mengadakan di-serat ini akan di-besarkan lagi .

Hanya ada satu dua perkara-manusia sunyi daripada salah, silap dan ke­ kurangan.

Dalam yang di-sebutkan wara itu tidak usah lagi, orang kampong pun tidak mengerti.
menaikkan semangat orang ramai, tetapi bunyi permainan jadi tiada apa2 kesan kapada orang ramai.

Bagitu juga tentang T.V.

umpama-nya, baharu2 ini Yang Ber­ hormat Timbalan telah memberi lomat2 asing di-sini, jumpa semua Diplomat T.V.

itu, tetapi di-beri keutamaan Duta dari ganibar close-up kapada Amerika dan British.
Kita memang hal itu, tidak ada kata apa2 tentang tetapi beri j uga-lah close-up kapada Duta India, Arab Republic Bersatu yang juga bersama menyokong kita dan memberi moral support yang kuat kapada kita; tetapi ini tidak di- sunggoh-lah kita siaran di-dalam Perdana Menteri briefing kapada Dip­ perkara ia-lah sastra.

lekas berkembang Tentang soal pelajaran, yang saya hendak sentoh sadikit soal bersangkut-paut dengan perkem­ bangan bahasa kebangsaan.
Bagi per­ kembangan bahasa kebangsaan, satu ia-lah lorong dan saloran yang besar melalui maju, Kalau sastra-nya rimbun dan baik maka bahasa kebang­ saan akan .

Satu usaha yang telah di-chadangkan dahulu ia-lah oleh Kementerian hendak memberi hadiah sastra dari­ pada Kementerian Pelajaran, daripada Kerajaan, dan tanya bila-kah lagi hadiah sastra ini hendak di-adakan.
la-lah untok memberi pengharga negara kapada satu hasil sastra yang terbaik untok sa-tahun sa-kali-kah, tahun sa-kali-kah kali-kah sastra yang ada dan di-timbang serta di-putuskan yang mana terbaik di-beri Hadiah sastra itu an kita kumpulkan a tau tiga tahun sa­ semua hasil2 saya suka Pelajaran hendak ber­ dua 2329 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 23�0 Mr Speaker: Panjang lagi?

pengha­ satu galakan banyak-nya Maka itu ada-lah hadiah.
bagi bertambah silan sastra yang baik2 di-keluarkan oleh pengarang2, ahli2 sastra kita yang ada di-serata tanah ayer kita pada masa ini.

Dengan chara ini sahaja salah satu jalan yang besar bagi kita untok .

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.

.

-nya terkelip2 sahaja .

macham penulis2 chichak tengok kapor.

Im semua hendak-lah jaminan, dan saya rasa perkara ini mustahak-lah untok mengada­ ini di-fikirkan langkah ini.
kan perundangan dalam perkara di-beri sekarang bandar dan satu buat ia-lah menerusi dengan ada-nya perseim­ Kemudian akhir sa-kali, Tuan yang di-Pertua, soal pembangunan luar bandar.

Saya hendak sentoh sadikit perkara luar bandar ini.

Satu2 perkara­ nya ia-lah soal membangunkan ekonomi orang di-luar jalan Kerajaan RIDA untok orang Melayu.
Kita sedar sa-lepas peristiwa bahawa Singapura ka-stablelan negeri kita ini dan usaha untok membentok satu bangsa hanya akan berjaya bang<tn ekonomi antara kaum yang ada di-negeri ini.

RIDA satu jalan yang dan mening­ kita buat untok menolong gikan ekonomi orang Melayu, tetapi terlalu sadikit modal yang di-berikan kapada RIDA.

Boleh chukup-kah 5 juta dalam usaha besar hendak mem­ bena kembali ekonomi orang Melayu?
Saya harap dalam masa Kerajaan merangka budget tahun had banyak peruntokan RIDA, supaya dapat-lah itu lebeh luas menghadapi chabaran yang besar bagi mengadakan bangan ekonomi untok membena kekuatan politik kita di-negeri ini, terima kaseh.

apan, lebeh di-beri kapada perseim­ Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Per­ lagi, novel dan dengan memberi Kementerian Pembangunan kita dapat dan perkem­ Sadikit sahaja lagi, Tuan yang di­ Pertua.

Dengan chara ini-lah memupok kesuboran bangan bahasa kebangsaan kita.
kara yang bersangkut galakan kapada buku2 yang keluar­ hasil2 sastra yang keluar, buku pengetahuan yang lain2 biasa-nya apabila di-chap sa-banyak 300 naskhah maka sa-banyak itu-lah dua tahun baharu habis.

Kenapa tidak Kerajaan memberi galakan?

Sekarang peruntokan Luar Bandar ada, Kementerian Pela­ jaran pun ada, untok buku2 Khutub Kanab Sekolah.

terian memileh buku2 dan hasil2 yang baik ini, 5 ,000, 4,000 atau 3 ,000 buku yang baik2 itu, bagi di-sebarkan kapada Khutub2 Khanah Sekolah2 lah2 Dewasa.
Dengan ini galakan kapada baik2, dengan demikian saloran ngan bahasa kebangsaan memang-lah kurang sangat keluaran buku2 sastra yang baik pada masa dan Seko­ kita beri sastra yang kita memberi yang besar kapada perkemba­ dalam bahasa kebangsaan kemudian beli, kata-lah Kenapa tidak Kemen­ penghasilan kita, dan sastra ini.
the Sir, perhaps Mr Speaker, dengan-nya ia-lah is not aware that he him­ Kramat): last speaker self may be a parrot repeating what benches have told the Government us so often before, amusing to find him so abusive although fortunately beyond the Standing course, the violence debate.

oleh sa-buah Sharikat Pener­ he like some people mistakes of abuse for efficiency for him he did not go Orders.

But, of and it is rather Saya beri siapa pun of soal hak menchipta.
Belum ada lagi kita buat Undang2 hak menchipta.

Siapa pun boleh mengambil, boleh menulis, jadi tidak ada jaminan kapada penulis2 kita untok menyiarkan hasil karia sastra masing2.

satu chontoh.

Sa-buah buku yang di­ terbitkan bitan Inggeris di-sini ia-itu Oxford University pulan cherita2 menjadi cherita satu kumpulan buku cherita pendek, di-bayar $20 atau $25 kapada penulis­ nya.

Itu sahaja.

Di-chap sudah 6 kali.


sedang Kompani ini dapat untong-nya, kum­ Press, sa-buah buku pendek, ada 1 0 atau 8 pendek di-kumpulkan the Members criticising this would be normal of Opposition Government on expenditure and on waste.

Of course, and is to be expected.


But since they have done so, I would not go over the same ground except to point out that it is not proper under our Orders to refer to the members Standing in this Enche' Lim Kean Siew (Dato Dan bersangkutan scope usaha Mr Speaker, Sir, we have heard a lot 233 1 1 5 OCTOBER 1964 2332 want war in Malaysia; who wants to fight in Malaysia?

Yet, when pushed, we could not avoid being pushed into it.
Let us, therefore, forget the propa­ ganda statements; let us deal with the reality.

they cannot several to the Prime have referred of Singapore as Lee Kuan House by their names.

However, speakers Minister Yew.

I think this is because do otherwise, for members from Sara­ wak, Sabah and Singapore do not have any other descriptive term other than the name of their State.
tatives I, for example, and my friend are des­ cribed as coming from Dato and Batu; but members of Singapore The represen­ from Malaya, on the other hand, Kramat Mr Speaker, Front members impression made by the Honourable that might These people went very fact is that Sir, the we have sent missions nag all abroad, over the world, to seek for peace.

Here I would like to dwell briefly on the statement the Prime Minister, the day before yester­ day, about two Socialist who went to Egypt.
I want to correct the erroneous have been created.

on their own funds; they were voted by the Socialist Front and they went.

There was no third person involved.

They went there in the hope of getting an understanding they have done there, Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not purport to know (Laughter) nor do we need to concern ourselves since I am very glad to hear the Honourable the Prime Minister stating that what does not concern us.
It is what they do inside the country that concerns We hope that that will be the continued policy of the Government.

theless, the point is moving towards war.

Is there an native?

If there should we seek it?

I say "Yes".

they do outside the country world opinion.

What is an alternative, this: we are all But, never­ alter­ us.

Wan Kadir: Penjelasan .

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Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, he misses my point Of course, I can forgive him English What I am trying to say would save a lot of time Sir, obviously entirely.

if he does not understand (Laughter).

again is that it if we signify the the other non-Malayan States by proper names so as to enable us to refer to representatives according from other States to their separate division.
various divisions of Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to speak today to the out of con­ different out about i s to be spent Press that our went to Canada and the arising confrontation to this.

The on something has said that he is Finance Minister $ 1 00 million from cutting development but if we look at the figures today we find that about $1 8 million and on defence on police other than the other amounts claimed yesterday.
We also find that request for $500,000 there is yet another to be spent on telegrams due political situation tinued Indonesian It has been stated in the Prime Minister United States again because find under another ture of $66,730 as provision d who accompanie expenses of officers.

the Prime Minister and of Singapore his party on a mission to Africa for the purpose of establishing support for Malaysia.

There is no doubt that we are slowly being pushed into war.
Even today we heard one Honour­ able Minister asking the Member for Kelantan fight Indonesia situati are prepared Hilir, "Are you prepared ? "

-and put in that will say, "Yes, we to fight."

But who really and spent over $ 1 30,000'­ of confrontation; and we Head the expendi­ on, everybody for the to and marshalling policy.

is already Mr Speaker, Sir, there talk amongst many people, regretting that ies.

took in the Borneo territor Malaysia There is talk that quiet there have been .

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negotiations by certain parties .

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order.

May we know the item on which the Honour­ able Member is speaking?
Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, pointed the items out Visit of the Prime of Singapore world opinion Sir, I thought I clearly enough-the Minister influence for half a million regarding establishment Police forces.. this expenditure whether dollars Indonesian conflict and the of new Defence and So, I am asking whether is necessary and to Afro-Asia to and the request to send cables we should continue our present 2 3 3 3 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2 3 34 as of our as well.
If a threat of then there the racial Malaysia Javanese of Malays in to Indonesians­ sense, nationalist is an the his­ Mr Speaker, hers", and at that time those words.

on take this attitude established in January, of Malaysia.

With of Malaysia there is Sir, Malaysia creation .

It is against policy which has involved the supple­ mentary expenditure, and war.
as long as we talk in and terms of Malays, Chinese l Malays" meaning non­ meaning non­ refer to 1 50 million before the war, peoples of South-East Malay-speaking origins.

These 1 5 0 Asia of different peoples are million Malay-speaking variously to as Malays, and in referred artificial Indonesia as Indonesians, and do not torical trend.

I remember that as late consist entirely as 1 960 or 1 96 1 , our Prime Minister sense, but merely Malay-speaking himself to the Indonesians referred peoples in this area.
Thus, for example, "our blood-brot "Malays"-referring many backbenchers echoed means 85 million And in the Government pamphlet we, however, that we Indonesian involvement in Eastern are, all of us, Malays or Malayans in Malaysia, which has been referred to that broad by one backbencher, we will find it is a chance for communal harmony in stated that the Indonesians this country.
But a Consulate in Jesselton racialist 1 962, and in Sarawak the Indonesian Indians, there will always be artificia to be recruiting Army was supposed barriers-" and training forces since March, 1963.

Chinese; "Chinese" Now, all this deterioration Malays or non-Muslims.

By using racial relationship with Indonesia came after divisions thus creates amongst the pronouncement IO million people the proportion of 40: the formation 40: 20: .
And as long as we are con­ already created in Malaya artificial we can scious of this racial division, very danger­ which is leading divisions in never get a true unity or nationality ously to a communal trend.

One party the Ministers may spite of whatever claiming to be a non-communal party­ say.
I emphasise "non" -has been stating in London and in Kuala Lumpur the fact that there are 40 per cent Malays, 40 per cent Chinese and 20 per cent others, and that this should analysis which we have to base our political thinking.

The danger is that if that happens, and there is a split, another Cyprus in Malaysia.

This is a very dangerous it is supported which seem to be appealing if we look at it superficially the : for example, Malays want X and Y, we are non­ Malays, we are excluded.

Why?
Why?

Are we n ot Malaysians?

Therefore, we the non-Malays must be united if we are ' to survive.

But this What must w Well, "Malays" could be as defined by very narrow feudalistic Malay nationa­ list forces, some members of the Alliance, and sometimes M elayu and also sometimes P.M.I.P., and of Muslim religion, but if we look at our South-East Asian context and the Malay speaking movement formerly called the Melayu Raya Sir, it is surprising bers yesterday universe ter) yet everybody become so sensitive.
Nevertheless, Sir.

what I am saying is relevant, because I am dealing with the question whether there is another alternative our present situation.

This is what everybody point out that this artificial Malaysia called Malay-speaking Malays from the Indonesian within us this tendency grouping Tengah): (Seberang a point of order.

We are not now about the composition but we are debating the Supplementary Supply Bill.
Our Honourable trying to more or less preach a sermon in this House on the history of Malay­ sia, history of Malays and so o n-and I think he is irrelevant 44 ( I).

I must wants to know, and creation of that so many Mem­ roamed all over the Enche' Ibrahim bin Abdul Rahman Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker.

as people of Malay origin in Utusan by the Malays but also creating which, if not checked, will is not only dividing the so­ e mean by "Malays"'?
structure upon and were not stopped communal trend, and of our internal today should have by faceteous discussing Mr Speaker, Sir, on to communal is not quite true.

arguments of Malaysia, under S.O.

(Laugh­ friend is of to we get be the 2335 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2336 am only making proposals, whilst we Peking in the in that or peace.

jingoistic Sir, there have other better Committee.

(lnter­ we do n ot want war.


Our Prime Minis­ Now, Mr Speaker, should I am not saying that this try to find Mr Speaker, country into two and will .

split the create a "Cyprus" situation could be declared .

But, Mr Speaker, Sir, we been "peace feelers" as reported press from Indonesia.

ter has said, "We do not want war", and I believe him.
We cannot afford war, and therefore We can go on shouting phrases, but this is to our detriment and this is going to break the whole idea of unity within the South East Asian context and Malaysia broad cultural sense.

We are living in this area, we are not in Japan or or London or Washington; we are in South East Asia and this is our context and unless we can find some formula whereby we can all live and work cordon together, of communal disturbances and natio­ nalistic antagonisms detrimental.
certain forces in Indonesia, get support, We want peace ism to their advantage.

and peace we should have.

Our Honour­ able Prime Minister himself has said, "We want peace".

There have been peace feelers-so any the other side.
What is stopping negotiatio set by n?-one pre-condition our Honourable Indonesian troops must withdraw the Bornean territor then the Afro-Asian ruption)-1 Sir, and be done; if the Members of the Go­ vernment Bench have s, I would be only too happy alternative to listen to them-or alternativ ely, a ceasefire negotiate have only two choices-war There is no doubt that if we go on like this we will get more and more in­ volved.

We must somehow another alternative.


why do I suggest that we seek for other alternative as understood be what we mean by "war".
We think that this is a conventi onal military war, a war for a military victory, supposing the Indonesian Government is not planning for a military but a political war of subversion and continued dropping of paratroopers, armed forces so that we would have to distribute the shores of Perlis up to 1 ,800 miles away to the shores supposing defeat of our military country, what then should we do?
If we accept my proposition, then we have no alternative some other which is breaking but to seek for avenues to end this war s ?

It is because "war" by Indonesia it is reported, from they are not looking to a our forces right along from there will be a seething in order to racial­ There is no doubt that have also preached but a political an attractive Prime Minister attrition, which will be that the political of Tawau, landing of may not Sir, from .

.

.

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but ies.


n s are dis­ must , there s. Malaya is different Bornean territories a million dollars Sir, the puted territorie from Borneo.

The same consideratio do not apply.

The Bornean States are disputed areas.
Since the last Afro­ Asian Conference a sum , over which of about half have been spent by Singapore has also been talk of setting ciliatory committees, representative need for a withdrawal a pre-condition is the only alternative must seriously consider, if we want peace, whether or not we should dis­ cus s peace proposals and set up a peace committee territories like the United Nations trusteeship if we like it and if that is not agreeable whilst putting the charge under international or, has said that there is no from Borneo as up con­ and a Philippines to negotiations.
left to us, we disputed If that Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Can we from the Member Kramat, Mr Speaker, seek a clarification for Dato he saying that this is a political and that of the Socialist Ra'ayat?

Indonesia is taking the side Front and Party Sir?

Is war Siew: Mr Speaker, whether to state is completely idiotic Enche' Lim Kean Sir, I do not know that this question or, if I will be insulting that perhaps he could not really understand n o t really academically (Laughter).
my arguments, since he i s him, if I said qualified.

Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Sir, on a point of clarification, in my own field of profession, I am fully qualified as he is in his field.

Mr Speaker: Please proceed!

2337 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2338 Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad he has said that in his own field of activity, He is an electrician, I believe.

he is qualified.

part of the world and must identif themselves identify with it, and I s ay we must ourselves with it.
y Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Sir, on a For his informa­ point of clarification.

tion , I am a member of the Royal Society of .

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Mr Speaker: Please proceed!

Dr Lim Swee Aun: On a point of does it mean, then, that the Member supports of Melayu Raya and does clarification, the Honourable formation not support and that Malaysia Raya?

the formation of Malaysia, is part of Melayu .


If I were would be involved , I realise that a lot of Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, Sir, when we are dealing with this question emotions to say that I am pro-Malaysia, then it is assumed that I am anti-Indonesi a ; and that then I must support national support national call-up, I must be to prepared fight, I must, therefore, to go to war.

Well, I am not prepared to go to war.

That is the first point.


to fight; if I am prepared be prepared if I am anti-Indonesia, call-up; if I Mr Speaker, Sir, as for Malaysia, it let us Neverthel exists fact, whether as a constitutional we like it or do not like it, it is there.

But I do not like it.

I have made myself clear.

But, Sir, that does not (Laughter) mean that I am anti-loyal .

(Laughter) or that I am pro-Indonesia But emotions of our opponents would have it otherwise.
ess, I am aware that we are facing the reality of a threat of war.

Let anybody deny it if they want to.

If we are facing the reality of war, should we not seek all means to peace?

I say, "Yes.

seek all means to peace" and essen­ I am not a Malay, I can tially-since say this-we here belong to a Malay­ speaking world.
This is the world of "Melayu Raya", and many of the Members of the Government in politics long before who are involved the Member for Penang Utara ever knew of politic talking Japanese establish within this identity peoples-by Malay speaking I do not mean "Malay" in the racial sense.

As I have said, eighty-five million people nesia who are not Malay or Malay people but they belong to this speaking the about.
During the War, to of the Malay speaking people, set up an organisation s, know what I am are Javanese its co-prospe rity sphere in Indo­ Bench, ?

No, bodies­ foreign Enche' Lim mean we must all of the Association .

When I say we have to form .


There on common matters got Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, Sir, since he has asked me that question, I have to ask him other questions a part of that Melayu Raya, when I say we belong to this area, does that necessarily therefore come under one Government the European Common Market proves it.

There are separate Italy etc.

; in fact, six European France, powers attempting to come togeth�r into a Common Market.
Then, there 1s also the examples of South American States to be considered the South American States have together to have a common approach to common problems.

There was an attempt here to set up ASA, that is to say the Association of South-East Asian States involving Philippines sure, Mr Speaker, to "Melayu Raya" whether the Honourable of Commerce and Minister Industry Government", as it is the context of my words.

I twisting did not mean that.


I meant that we must try to seek common grounds of conciliation; we must seek common grounds of· identity; but politically could be separate-and of view of our Government, even be completely we from the point means "under the Indonesian and Malaya.

So, I am not Sir, when he refers independent.

formed, thus Thailand.

we might Dr Lim Swee Aun: If politically, Malaysia can be separate concept not support of Melayu Raya, why does he the formation of Malaysia?
in this Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, Sir, it looks as though I am now performing will explain, always maintained the job of a Minister.

Mr Speaker, that we have not Sir.

We have I 2 3 3 9 1 5 OCTOBER 1964 2340 been against the concept of Malaysia.

The first release by us was that we are not against the concept of Malaysia, but we are against the way that Malaysia is formed and the terms of Malaysia, We are not against the concept of Malaysia-we are against this type of Malaysia.
how Malaysia came together.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: What is that?

(Laughter).

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Just like if we attempted this : I generally like dogs, but I d o not like his dog; but because I do not like his dog it does not mean that I dogs.

(Laughter).

do not like all So, Mr Sir, coming to the point.

It is Speaker, because of our historical background and the fact that we all come from the same region that I feel we would not to make lose anything approaches and seek for alternatives to impasse.
take us out of this present Already it is clear, when we look into the Development present Supplementary Estimates, that the Government is bankrupt of i deas.

There is nothing more they can do, except to spend more money-and that because of Malaysia.

Therefore, Mr Speaker, Sir, say this, and to ask the Government this question : Should not further to take us out of avenues be explored this impasse and this antagonism with Indonesia?
I rise today only Estimates and the to Datin Fatimah binti Haji Abdul wang tambahan pehak Kementerian Majid (Johor Baharu Timor): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bangun ada-lah menyokong wang tambahan perbekalan yang di-kemukakan oleh Menteri Ke­ wangan pada hari sa-malam, dan saya perchaya sa-kira-nya ini di-luluskan dapat-lah berkenaan meneruskan segala ran­ changan-nya bagi faedah Di-samping itu saya suka juga meng­ ambil peluang di-dalam ini berchakap di-dalam satu dua per­ kara yang terkandong di-dalam Rang Undang2 ini, ia-itu yang telah menarek perhatian saya ia-lah mengenal Surohanjaya Perkhidmatan 'Awam, ia­ itu saya telah di-fahamkan ini Dato' Abdul Aziz bin Abdul Majid perbahathan negara kita.
baharu2 yang di-jadikan lunasz yang men­ Surohanjaya Perkhidmatan Tetap Jabatan Per­ bekas Setia-usaha dana Menteri telah di-lantek menjadi Pengerusi 'Awam.
Ini saya perchaya dan saya berharap mudah2an beliau dengan ada­ nya pengalaman yang chermerlan g sa­ masa berkhidmat dengan Kerajaan, maka dapat-lah baik, 'adil dan saksama di-dalam jalankan tugas2 yang baharu ini serta dapat menchari j alan yang segera bagi menyempurnakan tanggong-jawab-nya Sebab pun saya menaroh harapan yang sa-demikian kerana saya telah di­ fahamkan pernah terjadi beberapa j awatan2 yang kosong terbengkala menunggu pegawai2 memegang j awatan yang kosong itu walau pun j awatan2 yang tersebut di-surat­ telah berbulan2 di-iklankan khabar.
Dengan kerana itu saya ber­ harap sa-moga dengan ada-nya Penge­ rusi baharu ini perkara yang sa-rupa itu tidak akan lagi hadapan supaya kerja di-jabatan2 atau Kementerian2 tidak tergendala apabila hal2 sa-rupa ini dapat di-atasi.

yang akan di-pileh berlaku di-masa2 i lama .

saya ini kapada semua ma'alum anchaman luar di-dalam kawalan keadaan negara kita Perkara yang kedua, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, mengenai: pertahanan.
Saya tujukan perchakapan Kementerian Pertahanan sa-moga men­ dapat perhatian daripada-nya .

Sa­ bagaimana yang kita di-dalam menghadapi negeri, lebeh2 lagi pada hari ini telah di-ishtiharkan dharurat, maka alat2 yang penting sa-kali di-dalam tugas bangsa mempertahankan kedaulatan dan negara Malaysia ini ia-lah ra'ayat negeri yang berada di-dalam pasokan keselamatan.
Mereka-lah yang bertang­ gong-jawab tang pencherobohan jauh atau pun di-tempat di-sc mpadan j uga di-arahkan berkawal di-kawasan yang sedang di-ancham oleh pendaratan pengkhianat Indonesia.

Tetapi sa­ panjang yang saya tahu rumah-tangga mereka jika di-bandingkan reka terhadap tanah ayer-nya.
Kalau saya tidak salah dan silap pendapatan askar biasa masok elaun isteri tidak lebeh daripada $ 1 80 sa-bulan dengan di-tambah $20 lagi kerana bayaran sewa rumah, dengan masaalah rumit sangat-lah yang penting sa-kali menen­ sama ada di-hantar pengorbanan2 me­ mereka ter­ bagi sa-orang oleh Dewan ini, maka 2341 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2342 bandar di-Kuala keadaan hari ini rumah yang sa-rupa itu di-mana dapat di-sewa dengan harga $20 sa-bulan, apa-tah Iagi kalau Lumpur di-Ibu Kota saperti sahaja di-kawasan atau di-mana2 sedang kita semua ta�u mere�a itu ua-nya dapat tmgg�l di-bare� tidak sem yang di-sediakan sa-orang askar yang di-hantar j auh daripada $60 akan di-potong danpada gaJi-nya kerana perbelanjaan makan di-tempat dia sedang bertugas itu, maka den�a� baki gaj i yang ada habuan anak isteri kena menambah sewa rumah dan ke­ perluan anak2 yang bersekola itu-lah n;ien1adi yang mungkm pula anak iste:i sudah .�entu oleh KeraJaan.
Bagi bertugas h .

Mr Speaker: Masa sudah chukup.

is suspended till half-past The sitting four this afternoon.

Sitting suspended at I p.m.

Sitting resumed at 4.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) THE SUPPLEMENTARY SUPPLY (1964) BILL Second Reading Debate resumed.

Saya membawa per�ara ini bagi -nya fi�iran2 masaalah Pertaha_nan Kementenan di-pertimbangkan pertimbangan ia-lah kerana memandangkan kesuhtan yang mungkin mengganggu parajurit2 yang sedang menghadapi per­ juangan.
Kalau-lah masaalah rumah­ tangga mereka semua-nya dalam keadaan Iumayan tentu pengorbanan2 dapat mereka berikan dengan dada yang lapang dan dengan fikiran yang tenang.
Dengan itu saya merayu-lah dapat kapada Menteri yang berkenaan kira-nya gaj i mereka atau P1:1n sa-kurang2 di-beri elaun sara hidup buat semen­ tara, agar timbang rasa kita dapat mereka sebab menolong kerunsingan walau pun mereka hanya sa-ba�ai askar biasa namun tidak dapat di-nafikan yang mereka mempunyai: anak lebeh dari 5 orang dengan tanggongan bagitu ramai tentu tidak memadai dengan menyewa sa-buah bilek sempit.
Itu-lah atau terpaksa menyewa rumah yang agak berpadanan dengan tan�gongan Dengan kerana itu keluarga-nya.

berharap peruntokan negara dapat di-perbesa lah-nya supaya pendenta3:n p�raJunt tanah ayer kita dapat di-ben pem­ belaan yang sa-wajar-nya dengan tanggong-j saya kerana pert�h�nan !kan lag1 1.u�­ mereka terdesak menyebabkan ka.
awab mere yan� The Minister of Home Affairs and of Justice (Dato' Dr Ismail): Minister Mr Speaker, all to reply to the observations by the Honourable in the course of his interventi debate.

I would like according his observations.

Sir, I would like first of made Member for Batu on in the to reply to him to the way he brought up First of all, Sir, he brought up the question by boat was was found should have been brought who had to Batu Gajah .
of the 50 detainees the necessity of flying these d that these question been flown over from Kuching to Malaya and then on He queried detainees.

He suggeste detainees over in a boat.

I can assure the Honour­ able Member that the of bringing the detainees taken into consideration-it that there was no boat available; but what is more important, Sir, the deci­ sion to bring these 50 detainees by flying them here was taken as a matter of security precaution.
For us it was easier to take security precautions had been flown over travelling Member for Batu also suggested that the Government nal attitude by, as he suggested, taking them on a conducted tour throughout let them see we have in this country.

think when the for Batu visited detainees Now, Sir, these 50 detainees flown over in not contaminate Kuching.

In other words, they were hard core.

As you know, the Kuching Honourable Batu Gajah these 50 had not been flown over then.
the good things of life that order that they should by boat.

The Honourable should adopt a pater­ rather than when in the Well, Sir, I had been Malaya to Member when they towards these detainees Perkara yang ketiga-nya .

.

Mr Speaker: Kata dua perkara pun sudah chukup.

sahaj a tadi.

Masa Datin Fatimah binti Haji Abdul Majid: Lima minit lagi, Tuan Yang di­ Pertua.

the other detainees 2343 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2344 not read the whole of his speech but that part that is relevant to the resolu­ tion.
He said, "I shall now read out" - that is, read out the resolution : is overcrowded and Detention Camp were these hard core Communists allowed free play to indoctrinate the rest of the detainees.

Sir, it may be that, when these people have a change of heart and they want to become loyal of this country rather than citizens traitors, they may be taken on a four of the country to see the good things of life that chose to behave as traitors to country.
they had missed when they contained this "The Security Council, Taking note of the complaint of M alaysia i n document S / 5930.
Taking into consideration the statements of the parties and of the members of the Council expressed during the discussion, D eeply concerned by the fact that the armed incidents which have o ccurred in that region have seriously a ggravated the situation and are likely to endanger peace and security i n that region, Noting with satisfact ion the desire of the a peaceful solution of the parties to seek differences between them, United Nations Charter, the relevant provisions o f the 1 .
Regrets all the incidents which have occurred in the whole region; 2.

Deplores the incident of 2nd September.

1 9 64, which forms the basis o f the com­ plaint contained i n document S /5 93 0; 3 .

Requests th e parties concerned to m ak e recurrence of such every effort to a vo id th e incidents; 4.
Calls upon t he parties to refrain from all threat or use of force and to respect the territorial of each other, and thus to create a con­ ducive atmosphere for the continuation of their talks and political integrity ; independence 5.
Recommends to the Governments con­ cerned thereupon '-mark the word 'there­ upon'-' to resume their talks o n the basis o f the joint communique i ssued by the Heads of Government following the meeting which took place in Tokyo o n 20th June, 1 964. provided for The reconci by that joint communique, ed, once establish should keep the Security Counci l informed the development of the situation."
concerning liatio n commission Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu): Mr to the Speaker, Honourable Minister Sir, I am very grateful for this assurance.

in Recalling not only by the Members on the Govern­ time, and in Council Resolution Member for Batu but by accept a Conciliation views of the Afro­ in of Afro-Asian countries and as suggested Sir, the second point Member for Batu with Dato' Dr Ismail: that the Honourable made was an observation dealing external affairs.

Now, I would like to quote him.


He said, "The Socialist Front would like to urge the ment not to wast� any further but straightaway Commission as agreed earlier the Security keeping with the Asian nations."

Sir, this observation regard to the Afro-Asian Commission has been mentioned Honourable other Honourable to Opposition bench also.
I would like what was make quite clear to this House intended by the Security lution on this Afro-Asian Commission, and to do that, Sir, being tedious, I would like from the Report of the Security which has been circulated to Honour­ able Members, who, I am sure, have not taken the trouble, Oppo­ especially sition members, to read what is con­ document.
tained in this Now, Sir, I would not like to quote all the speeches that would take too much time and we have not got too much time to spare, thanks to the time taken Members in introducing irrelevant matters would like just to quote the speeches made by Mr Nielsen when he intro­ duced his motion, which was accepted by nine out of eleven members Security Mr Nielsen of the Now, Sir, this is what when making their speeches.

I has to say.
I has to say.

I quote-I will by the Opposition Council Reso­ at the expense of there, because Council.

valuable Council to quote Now, let us hear what Mr Nielsen has to say in explaining He said: the resolution.

"First, in our view there can remain no reasonable doubt that the incident, as described by Malaysia, took place on 2nd September, 1 964, nor can there b e any reasonable doubt that other incidents have occurred in that whole region.
We believe that it is the duty of the Council t o express have incidents regret and deplore that such taken place.

We can understand why it would possibly the views of all members of the Council if it took upon itself to condemn; but surely, we should regret and deplore.
not be i n accordance with Secondly, there can be n o doubt in our mind that the Security Council in dealing with this complaint, dealings, must have as its guidance the as well a s in all its other 2345 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2346 relevant relevant provision in operative obligation upon themselves provisions of the Charter.

And one of the Charter is quoted Afro-Asian Conciliation on any term.
Commission paragraph 4 dealing with the which Member State� have taken Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, under the Charter : Sir, I did not say on any term.

'to refrain from all threat or use of force and to respect the territorial and political independence of each other.'

integrity I beg the members of the Council, as well to be aware that this call is is to no party in particular-it to us to the parties.
as the parties, addressed addressed to be a very appropriate call by the Council in matters of this character.

and well-justified And it seems Lastly, this draft resolution has a very concerned a recom­ to important operative paragraph, mendation to the Governments resume their talks, and also on the basis which i s agreed by the three parties.
I had noted that no member of the Council has disassociated itself from the result of the conversations parties' member of the Council disassociated itself from a resumption I should think that this operative paragraph which should command the unanimous support, I am sure, of the Council."

in Tokyo, nor would be an of these talks.

Therefore, had any Then he says : "There is a certain sequence, which I want to mention, built into the draft resolu­ tion.
It stems b oth from the fact that the 'call' upon the parties, which I quoted and commented upon, precedes the recommenda­ tion to the parties to resume their talks, and from the fact that in the last paragraph­ the fifth one-it specifically This sequence i s a sequence which to my Government is obvious.

You do not nego­ tiate, be it in business, be it in labour relations or be i t in any other outstanding questions as well as an external political nature, under duress.
I think it is fair to add to this that parties.''

this goes for all three says 'thereupon'.

of an internal distorted the inten­ there?

I may be Now, Sir, how has the Member for Batu distorted the resolution of the Security Council, and how have the other Members of the Opposition of this Parliament tion of the resolution excused if I accuse them of toeing the line.

This is what the Indonesian would like us to do­ Indonesians when their troops are on our negotiate soil.
I do commend to the Honourable Members of the Opposition, that we should negotiate that they read this valuable I think they have the intelligence understand on any term, document.

who say to it.

Then, the Honourable Member went on to explain why we should have this Dato' Dr Ismail: Well, it is implied in any case.

It is implied there when you do not qualify when you talk of an Afro-Asian Conciliation Commis­ sion.
Let us not hear any more of this nonsense of going to talk with the Indonesians without pr e-conditions ; and w e must talk only i n accordance with the Security Council.

in more tangible observation Now, Sir, his other was in regard to his visit to Batu Gajah Camp, and here he began by Detention thanking the then of Acting Minister Home Affairs, the Honourable the Deputy Prime Minister, for having allowed him to do so.
Sir, had he expressed his gratitude forms, it would have been more appre­ ciated by the Members of the Govern­ ment Bench.

Now, Sir, when the Honourable Member was given the permission to visit the Batu Gajah Detention that Camp, it was understood he would like to see to the welfare of there.

It was never for the detainees by the Honourable once suspected the Acting Prime Minister that he would be acting in the role of a snoop, and that is what he had been doing.
He had been asking questions mandant of the Camp.

Now, Sir, as a Member of this House, he responsible can ask the M inister he can make comments in this House, and not to go snooping the junior officers of the Camp who, knowing that he is an Honourable Member of this House, would naturally be frightened M ember of the House.

of the fact that he is a around and asking responsible, Com­ from the Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, tion.

I did not Sir, on a point of clarifica around.


When I was there, go snooping Commandant and there was the Camp there were two Special Branch officers.

And I can assure the Honourable Minister that the Camp Commandant was in no way afraid of me; he wasn't afraid of me at all.

I do not see was snooping around.


I was room, and I was not allowed to around, and I asked questions how I seated in a move in the 2347 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2348 d the Camp Commandant but presence of the Camp Commandant and two Special Branch officers.

Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, Member intended as well.

(Laughter).

How a m I am not a crystal gazer.

I do not know what the Honourable to say.

But this is what he said.

He questione he never said that he sat with the other detainees I to know that?
I am n o t a crystal gazer, and I have got to conclude my observation from what h e said and not from what he was supposed to say.
So, not say "to Sir, I would like-I would warn him" because warning is not liked by the Members of the Opposi­ tion-to say that this visit detainees only granted by the Minister considers it very necessary, and I would not like that privilege because it would be withdrawn-I not care what the Members of the Opposition may like to say in this House; it will not be given if Honour­ able Members choose to abuse that per­ mission given to them to see the detainees .
They are there to see to the welfare of the detainees how the detainees are getting on and not to go and ask questions members of the Detention completely under my authority.

to which is when he from the staff who are i s a privilege and just to see to be abused, permission do Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, with the detainees, Sir, on a point of clarification, I do not see how I abused the privilege.

First of all, I thanked the Honourable Acting Minister of Home Affairs, the Deputy Prime Minister.
During the course of my conversation certain facts were brought up, as I quoted yesterday, such as the study of the national language, the lack of re­ and the like.

I have facilities creational brought these to the attention of the Minister concerned in the form of questions for written replies and merely quoted.

So, I do not see how I abused my privilege.

As I stated before, very grateful I was for this opportunity.
Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, since the Member does not under­ it quite clear that Member is given Honourable stand, I will make when an Honourable permission to visit the detainees, he is not supposed to go and query the Commandant as to what his attitudes are, what should be done and should not be done in the Camp.

If you do not want to go, you can ask question s i n Parliament, responsible to embarrass of the Administration able of giving the information may require, wrong information.
who are incap­ that you or they may give you the in my M inistry-and not any subordinate you can write to those officers Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, I hate to interrupt the Honourable Minister .

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Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I do not g ive way because I h ave not much time to reply to all the points.
I can see the number of pages taken to report his speech ; and if I were to give way now to him, then there my colleagues tions of the Members of the Opposit ion, and we will be accused of warming our seats and failing to answer the observa­ will be no time for in our duties.

to found hanging the Straits Times by the Now, Sir, the Honourable Member quoted from the Straits Times about the case of Ong Geong Ing who, to him, was according in his cell.
He did not make it clear that that report from was in respect of the last inquest Coroner; but it may be of interest to know that the Honourable Member the resumption of the inquest has been fixed for October 2 1 st.

He may have given the wrong impression to this House that the verdict has been given on this case, whereas the inquest is going to be resumed on the 2 1 st of October.

sio n , what did he say now?


He said, "I hope the Honourable Home Affairs will look into this matter and punish the guilty ones. "

What kind of logic is that when you try to invoke the practice quoted from the verdict to punish the guilty ones.

Am I going to be a Gestapo chief and try to punish these people when of the Court is open and nobody is going to be blamed?

of democracy if, as is Times here , the Straits Basing on that wrong conclu­ is open?
Then he asked me Minister the verdict of They talk about democracy in this country, and yet they ask me to do the very thing which you do not do 2349 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2350 and more apparent, to the Opposition."

more and more annoying will· he look into this He goes on to say : Member of the Court; act democracy-to what the Honourable in a parliamentary contrary to the decision This is says, " .

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matter and punish the guilty ones?


", when by his very words from the Times the quotation from verdict was open ;· and who are the guilty ones that I am supposed to punish?

Am I going to go and get a few warders and just make them scape­ the Honour­ goats in order to satisfy able Member's pathological request?

(Laughter).

the Straits Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, may I rise .

Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, I have got very much more to say, but I am not.
trying to be intolerant and we are fighting against time.

The Honourable Member was given the opportunity to state his case clearly and not be so ambiguous so that the thing will boomerang against him.

Now, when he has got the boomerang, he wants another opportunity to reply.

I think this is a lesson to him to be careful when he makes a speech in this House, so that he will not be hanged by his own petard.
Now, Sir, I come to the Honourable Member for lpoh, who happens to sit Member for next to the Honourable Batu.

But, unlike the Honourable Member for Batu, he happens to be absent although outside the House I told him that I was going to deliver him and he told me a barrage against that he would be present, but as usual you cannot predict what the Honour­ able Member would do.
"If that is the attitude being adopted by Bench, then we will have to the Ministerial reconsider which we have to adopt to the G-0vernment side.

A civil question requires a civil answer .

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the attitude " the Honourable Mem­ Member goes on to The Honourable with my explain why he disagrees answer to this question as to why public rallies are not allowed in open spaces.
Now, Sir, can you accuse a political opponent of being arrogant you, when he happens to disagree with when his answer to your question is not to your liking or not to your satisfaction?

Sir, I will accept the challenge from ber for lpoh-if he does not want to be civil, I can outmatch him in that respect.
However, I would like to warn the Honourable Member for the tactics which may prove to b e successful in the Courts, where he can bully and then try witnesses and gain his point, will not If he tries work with this Government.

to bully the Government, we will bully him twice more.

Let me warn him that according to the strength party in this House, he is just like a fly which sat on the and said, "See what dust I raise!

"­ the two Members of the People's Progressive the loudest sound.
axle of a wheel this House make to placate the Party in lpoh that of his Now, let us come to the facts of the kind case, leaving aside his peculiar of logic.

What did he say about this Emergency?

I would like to quote him.

This is what the Honourable Member for lpoh said : Now, in his speech, the Honourable Member for lpoh accused me and the Members of the Ministerial Bench for being arrogant.

Now, let us see on what grounds did he accuse us of being arrogant.
Let me just quote him-he said: " M r Speaker, Sir, when the Emergency of such Emer­ was declared and we were asked to give approval to the declaration gency, we gave support to that declaration, but it i s a matter of regret that I have to stand up today and say that the p ossible abuse of of Emergency is already apparent to the people of this country."
the powers under that declaration "In reply to a civil question or a civil observation made by the Opposition that permits for public meetings in open spaces were refused by the Police at Ipoh, we got a reply from the Honourable Minister concerned an answer which is indicative attitude Bench in this House which is becoming more of the arrogant being adopted by the Ministerial which was not at all satisfactory, His examples of the abuse of powers, Sir, are these.

Let us examine his of all, that the reasons.


He said, first Ministry of Information, "for example, .

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is not giving the which people of this country the information 2351 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2352 this question to the House.

Now, let us see what he says about the Police: "What is the protection Govern­ ment is going to give to citizens who are locke d in Police Stations and walloped in Police Stations by policemen? "
that this knows of such cases, and if he from beating pri­ As a lawyer he should know that there is a law in this country prohi­ biting policemen soners, he being a lawyer, he can probably act in defence of the men.

He may charge or may not charge me, that is his own look out.

But that is the remedy which is provided in any parliamentary democracy.

Then he says: "What is the protection you are going to evidence to show give?

Ask for evidence, that policemen have walloped another man in a dark room?
You are asking for the impossible ."

to have before supplemen­ they are entitled tary votes are asked for or approved in this House.

We have from sources other than the local Press-from International press reports-known of landings in Malaya, landings other than those disclosed in the local Press, true or untrue, confirmed or unconfirmed.

This Government is not prepared to confirm or deny to our local Press whether there had been subsequent landings.
there a landing by sea craft territory, sea craft on Malayan territory firmed or is that not confirmed ?

But it press reports.

Did appeared in international it not appear in international press reports?

Why is it that the people of this country themselves are not informed of it?

Why is it that suddenly we find curfew areas declared on Malayan soil, leave alone Malaysian soil? "

was there an attempted landing by ?


Is it con­ For example, last Saturday was on M alayan Those are his examples that the Government has abused the Emer­ gency power.

If he had been here to listen to the speech during the adjournment of the House by the Honourable Minister of Information , in reply t o the speech made by the Honourable Member for Batu, he would have known the reason why some of the news trickled to the foreign press rather than to our local Press .
However, unlike most parlia­ mentarians, he only wants to come to this House to hear himself speak rather than others.

must Further, he goes on to say that I take measures to punish these police­ men.

Now, when he himself cannot produce evidence to show that such acts had been done, how can he ask me to punish these policemen arbitra­ rily?
He s hould be thoroughly ashamed to call himself a learned Member of this House, when he tries to urge the Honourable Justice is meant by justice in any parlia­ mentary democracy.

Just because he cannot produce evidence to prove that a policeman has walloped a prisoner, he wants me to take action arbitrarily This is the kind of logic that the Honourable Member is trying to put to this House.

Minister of to do an act contrary to what to punish that policeman.
to our to the Press and the Press on how many With regard, Sir, to the curfew that is imposed i n Johore, we cannot inform the public the reason before­ hand, as it may jeopardize the action, and it may give information enemies.

But the news of the opera­ tion there, as a result of the curfew, are given had been reporting Indonesians were killed and captured in that operation.

This is a very good example of the pure the Honourable Member for Ipoh.
He talks about we trying to be arrogant a n d dictatorial stop the laughing not think that that is dictatorial.

I think he should be sent, and I recom­ mend it to the Honourable Prime Minister, to a parliamentary course to are conducted see how debates , but when he tries to Honourable Members from at jokes made by me he does imagination of there.
Then he brought up this question about the Police-he always brings Finally, he goes on to the question about the procedure of a lawyer a ppearing before the Advisory Com­ mittee, or the proced lawyers are allowed to defend a detainee and he quoted the opinion of the International Commission of Jurists.

He says: when a detainee is arrested, ure by which "Mr Speaker, Sir, the Internati onal Com­ mission of Jurists does not approve of that action.
They do not approve of the statement that relatives or legal a dvisers should be deprived the right to see arrested persons on the ground that investigations completed have not been • .

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2353 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2354 s. Of course, country, as we should look at these detainee living in a democratic must treat these detainees in a democratic not go beyond that.

We must not treat them as if they are loyal citizens this country and as if they no wrong.
country, but we must have done of we Berhormat Ahli Yang Saya hendak menjawab tegoran dari daripada Bachok yang mula2-nya dia mengata­ kan ia-itu bekas2 Anggota Kesela­ matan yang telah bersara dahulu patut-lah lah tujuan Kerajaan, bila sampai masa-nya nanti orang2 ini-mana2 orang yang ada kebolehan, semua-nya kita akan ambil menjadi Security Forces.

balek.

ltu memang­ di-ambil Kemudian dia telah membuat satu tudohan ia-itu ahli2 parti PAS ini di-ambil telah tidak menjadi ahli2 .

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Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah (Bachok): (rises).

Dato' Dr Ismail: Nanti dahulu saya belum habis lagi.

Awak punya tudohan mengatakan PAS tidak di-ambil berkhidmat negeri ini bagi menentang tidak?

ini, betul-kah dalam konfrantasi ia-itu yang ahli2 Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: bagitu.

Saya tanya Saya tidak berkata ada-kah Kerajaan menyertai sa-orang ahli dalam Parlimen kita yang berikan terima Kerajaan yang tidak mahu mengambil ahli2 PAS masok di-dalam itu.
kaseh kapada pegawai pasokan mem­ Commission Member things out of context.

I am of the of Jurists whereas Sir, as usual, the Honourable is quoting not a lawyer, but this opinion International refers to ordinary these detainees are being arrested under the Internal we have provided the Internal Security no p oint in trying to bring in quota­ tions which are out of context.

Security the procedure in Act.


So, there is court cases, Act-and him more blows than he (Laughter) I am indeed very sorry the Honour­ able Member is not here, because I can give can .

So much ever do in future.

for the Honourable Member for Ipoh.

Since he is not present here, I think I should not waste on him.

very much time Now, I come to the observation Enche' picture is purely reasons.
and friends He painted a beforehand the agonies and were informed of the feelings , the relatives of the relatives of their es and friends, and I am not made by the Honourable Stephen Yong in regard to the I think he made transfer of detainees.

were the point that these detainees were flown here and their relatives not informed.

Sir of imme­ these detainees were flown diately after the detainees they could here.
The very fact that not be informed for security pathetic relativ going to belittle sufferings of.

these people who have gone wrong.

But, I think, there our sympathy end.

We must remember that these fifty detainees are encouraging tion, and many of the lives of our security both our own and those of the Com­ monwealth.

cerned with the feelings relatives been killed by this tion by Indonesia, detainees not think of this confrontation play.

This is a matter of survival our nation.


these fifty detainee loyal citizens.

them as enemy agents who support the enemy who are trying to destroy Malaysia, of the , who have act or confronta­ which these fifty have supported?
We must s as if they are We must look upon Should not we be con­ of these soldiers how we should and that is must for as a forces are being sacrificed, by their very activities this overt confronta­ saya hendak siasat Dato' Dr Ismail: Jadi awak mem­ buat tudohan yang tidak bernama, itu susah-lah (K�a�.

Jadi awak katakan yang ahli2 parti PAS ini tidak di-ambil untok masok dalam Pasokan Kesela­ matan, itu saya boleh j awab.
Fasal pengambilan orang2 baharu untok menambah tentera Malaysia, tidak memileh parti, orang yang masok tentera sa-buah parti pun bahkan terbuka kapada siapa juga yang di-anggap la yak.
tidak terhad kapada Malaysia Atas tegoran-nya ia-itu Perdana Menteri telah berjanji hendak sedia­ kan sa-keping tanah untok kubor We must not think of 2355 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2356 orang2 yang telah mengurbankan dalam konfrantasi tahu ia-itu chadangan Perdana Men­ teri ini keluarga yang meninggal tidak-lah di-sambut oleh kaum dunia itu.

j iwa ini.

saya di-beri­ Mem­ The Honourable Member for Tan­ jong-as usual.
the Opposition bers are not here when we reply to them-accused that it was a waste of money and that I was misinformed when I brought specimen of arms to the Security Council as one of our evidence.

Sir.
Sir.

the Honourable Member is totally ignorant of international politics, and not only ignorant of international but he has not politics even got the courtesy to read the Report which had been circulated to Honourable Members with regard to the proceedings Council-not because I was the Leader of the Delegation there but because that report is important to1 our country because it affects greatly our confron­ If he had read tation with Indonesia.
the Report, and he had seen the pictures included in that booklet, he would see that the arms were in the Security Council.

So, it is not true to say that it was a waste of money to bring the Council.

I have not got much time to tell you the reasons why we did not try to seek the permission of of the Security knew that we could get our way with­ out trying to secure such permission the President Council, because we arms to the Security in the Security displayed .
because he talked at great Now, of course, we come finally to the Honourable Member for Dato Kramat, whom, as usual, it was difficult to follow; I don't think he knows1 him­ self what he was talking about (Laughter) length on the confrontation and about his party's attitude to it.

He used the same arguments , that we should go and talk in order to secure peace.
If I inter­ pret him as best as I can, I think he wants us to adopt the policy of appeasement; in other words, to talk to Indonesia· even when their troops are on our s oil.

Then he tried to j ustify fight why he did not support fully our against Indonesia because, he said, he is against' the concept of Malaysia and so if he subscribes to our resistence to this confrontation, that means he is which he is not, and anti-Indonesia, it is difficult for him to support therefore our efforts against Indonesia.
That is the involved thinking at this stage in the Socialist Malaya.

When groups of Socialist Front members are being arrested from the leaders are loud protestations saying, " We are not responsible for them.

They act individually, are not responsible for their acts . "

Now, what kind of party is it when you have no discipline, when you allow great numbers of your members to to be sent across subvert this country, to Indonesia to be trained?

And then you say, "Well, we are not responsible for them."
At least they should make an effort, even if they fail; we will help them.

They should make an effort to close their branches members that they should not d o such a thing.

prevalent Front of and warn those that is there and we Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kelantan dalam j awapan saya Hilir.

dia juga membuat tudohan sa­ macham yang di-buat oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Ipoh.

ia-itu dia menudoh yang Polis ini menggunakan kata dia "third degree".
Kemudian dia suroh saya supaya mengambil tindakan kapada orang2 Polis ini.

Sa-bagaimana saya terangkan kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Ipoh ia-itu krasi ini, jikalau ada ahli2 Polis yang menggunakan ini, dia "third degree" boleh di-bawa di-Court dan ta' usah­ lah suroh saya ini menjadi macham tuan2 hendak sipatkan sa-macham Gestapo.

suroh memukul orang2 Polis ini dengan aduan daripada parti PAS, ini yang kata orang puteh "adding insults to injuries".
dalam negeri, yang berdemo­ Dr Tan Chee Khoon: On a point of ion, Mr Speaker .

Sir.

That clarificat we have done.

Dato' Dr Ismail: I think it must have been done in the quiet (Laughter).

It has never been published and I have never read it in the newspapers.

This is the first time that I have heard about it (Laughter).

always inform the House that it always my objective-I know I cannot get it now-trying to make the Socialist Front a real, good Opposition Party.
Mr Speaker, Sir, I is 2357 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2358 they show that They cannot said in the United Nations in Indonesia indivi­ trying to get rid of the Communists in that party.

But they cannot do it the way they are carrying on.

has just disown them or just say "It nothing to do with the party."

Ten, twenty, hundreds of Socialist Front members go to be trained , and they say, "Oh, they act dually."'
Then they come to this House and by their speeches-I do not say that they are traitors to the country­ by their very speeches they are very naive.

This is what the Indonesians when I was there : I was informed that the political very naive.

Now I know that that accusation is correct.

They refer to these leaders of the Socialist (Laugh(er), where they are going.
So, let me extend a helping hand help them: I say to them, "Come to our fold, come and fight Soekarno, and let us suspend all these politics few years and we will try to rebuild you We as a good socialist party in democracy.

Disown believe all those across, disown them, who have gone close your branches.

Don't try and force me to do it, please do it yourself and show that you support this confronta­ tion (Applause).

leaders in Malaysia are Thank you.

Front for a because they do not know (Laughter).


to them, let me Dr Tan Chee Khoon: On a point of Home Affairs, ion, this appeal by the Minister of clarificat Honourable does it mean that he wants us on this side of the House only one party in existence, Alliance Party, behind the Alliance Party?

to fold up and have i.e.


, the and let us all rally The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, that speakers the Honourable have already given suitable Sir, there was one matter raised Sir, there are only a very few points raised by I need to reply to as, I think, my colleagues replies to almost all of the points raised.

which falls within my portfolio-and that is the suggestion States should of the United Nation what the Honourable mind.
As far as I know, a trust is one where the territory been able to make a decision territory not for itself, s. I do not know Member had in be made a trust territory itself has that the Borneo of ies, there themselves and in the assess­ .

The Honourable of the United Nations.

We the who can take over of that territory-and Africa, which is under the of South Africa.
But in the and where there is nobody in that territory, administration is given it is for that reason a territory over to the United Nations as a trust territory have a case in point in respect South-West trusteeship case of the Borneo territor has never been any dispute as to the desires of the peoples of the Borneo territories Member has chosen to ignore the fact that there have been many commis­ sions, or committees, to assess the views and the desires of the people in the Borneo territories ment of the views of these people, they are certain, except for a very, very small minority, that all the others would prefer to join Malaysia, and as a result of that we have set up Malaysia.
There has been the Cobbold Commission, there has been the decision of the people themselves through their representatives called the Solidarity Committee, and, lastly, the Committee sent by the United Nations.

Therefore, there is no question of the dispute as to whom these terri­ tories belong.

The desire of the people is to join Malaya and Singapore and set up or establish Malaysia.

It is a foregone conclusion.


The only trouble has been nesia had taken exception opposed it, and as a result of their opposition had carried out what we called "confrontation".

If the Honour­ able Member is clear in his mind, he should know that there is no rhyme or reason for this has been no ground for it whatsoever.
The Security Council of the United Nations has decided, except for the votes of the Communist countries, that Malaysia is an established fact that recognised by the United Nations, Indonesia to has no right whatsoever violate this territory by any acts of aggression or acts of confrontation, and that they should try and settle any dispute, amicably-and decided in the Security United Nations followed by another that Indo­ to it and had which they have in mind that is as has been what we now call confrontat Council of the ion; there by 2359 1 5 OCTOBER 1 9 64 2360 decision taken by the non-aligned countries.
Malaysia to be dissolved.

As a result of that, come what may.

We mean to stand by our commitment.

Malaysia is one of the countries that to the press The other matter, which has been , but there is lists", and "neo­ if it has no· multi­ " has never been defined.

On (Laughter).
On (Laughter).

And even treaty formed for the purpose On the other for admission into the non­ on the ground that three and then a further three us of non­ is only to s top us brought up again by the Honourable Member, is that perhaps I should really try and make peace with Soekarno .

There has never been an or any suggestion, at any instance, time, that I refuse to talk to Soekarno.

We have had talks in three places­ first, in Tokyo; then, in Manila; and then in Tokyo again.
If the Honour­ able Member had been present at these talks, he would have known that Soekarno never had any intention of making peace.

He was only leading me on a wild goose chase on this idea of peace .

In actual fact, the places where he had dragged me for these talks had been those places where he could find most amusement.

now, as I have disclosed yesterday, there had been, first, approaches asking me to talk with Soekarno.
I have replied that I will talk any time, any day, and anywhere, provided he has a real intention talking peace, and provided too that he is ready to observe our sovereignty and our independence.

If he does so, the only sensible thing, and the only logical thin� for him to do, is to with­ draw his troops from these territories of Malaysia.

Until he has decided do so, I cannot see any point in going when he has to meet him, no real desire of making peace.
Never­ theless, I say, and I reiterate am prepared to meet him anywhere, provided he is keen, he is really anxious to make peace.

That is, as far as I can say, in reply to the points raised by the Honourable Member from the Opposition any reply from me.

was refused admission aligned countries we are neo-colonists.
hand, the qualification is clear in that any country) is a non­ aligned country, lateral of opposing another bloc no objection to any country with a treaty joining this non­ bilateral aligned group.

However, we were refused admission to j oin the non­ aligned group on the ground that we were "neo-colonia colonialists the other hand, a country like Cuba has been admitted freely as a non­ aligned country.

Cuba is decidedly communist.


The idea of refusing admission into the conference aligned countries from making our defence against charges likely to be made by Indo­ I took care that the nesia.

However, know all the members present would facts and I circulated a letter to all those leaders present there.
As a result of that, Members are as Honourable aware, the voting was very much in our favour and Soekarno felt rather awkward and embarrassed much so that he was not present to· sign the declaration the end of the Conference.

Therefore, there is no need for us to hand over these Borneo territories, which form part of ourselves, to the United Nations as a trust territory.

any suggestion United Nations be handed over as a trust territory, except, of course, the suggestion that Front.
All comes from the Socialist along, it has been the suggestion of the Front that they have never Socialist opposed Malaysia but that they only opposed the way it was brought into being.

This is an old song and I have replied to it many times in the House, and there is perhaps no need for me to go back on that again.
Suffice for me to say that Malaysia has been formed, it is a fait accompli, and there is no suggestion from any direction for Another matter, which affects my Ministry, was raised by the Honour­ able Member for Batu.

He has sug­ gested, among other ·things, that there is delay in preparing the Official Debates.
Report of the Parliamentary There has, unfortunately and as a result we have recruited further : first there were eight, and now action is being taken o n the part of the to for these territories There has not been about it, so that was made at particularly which require , been delay to recruit to him at , that I to of 2361 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2362 so that we six reporters, Report ready in good an additional could get the time.
It is also hoped that Members of Parliament turning ment as soon as possible after they have received will co-opera1e by re­ sent to them by Parlia­ those scripts.

scripts Those, Sir, as far as I can see, are the points that were raised in respect of my Ministry.

this House Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, may I thank the Honourable for telling Prime Minister that the corps of parliamentary reporters has been increased ?
I can assure you that most of the Members on this side of the House will send as soon as possi­ back their speeches ble.

(Showing copy of the speech I made yesterday, and I must commend the parlia­ mentary reporters so prompt.

As the Honourable Minister speech, I am correcting yesterday before I leave this House.

can see, while hearing his my speech of back , and I will send it for having been Prime some papers) This is a The Minister of Commerce and hazard.

high political Ministers.


He attri­ of Finance has been (Dr Lim Swee Aun): Mr Spea­ the parti­ rate of mortality of Finance in the world's ?

Despite such heavy odds, Industry ker, Sir, yesterday, the Honourable Member for Batu drew the attention of the House to the high mortality rate of Alliance buted this to occupational May I also be permitted to draw the attention of this House to cularly Ministers Parliaments our Minister blessed with longevity.
But for the increased hair above his temples, he is enjoying the best of health (Laughter) both physically There are no indications that he will not be the Minister of Finance for many more terms in this Parliament.

Why?

It is because he has all the qualities Minister of Finance should have.

Judging by his record, the fortunate of Finance.


Ask any Member of the Cabinet if it is not true that it is easier for us to squeeze a drop of water out to have him as our Minister that a good and efficient and politically.

(Applause) crop of grey country is (Applause) of stone (Laughter) than to milk a single cent out of the Minister Finance if that justified.
of is not expenditure Sir, no one is more aware of the of confrontation, and economic situation financial Malaysia today, in the face of econo­ mic and military than the Members of the Government Bench.

I can assure the House that money has not been carelessly unnecessarily spent as alleged by Honourable Members tion.

We all understand the Members of the Opposition to criticise is what the Government-that they are here for.

But to condemn all and sundry without tion can be dangerous.
of the Opposi­ the need of careful investiga­ or the The Honourable Member for Batu belongs to the noble profession of medicine, and I am sure he will agree with me that it is malpractice for him of his to spot-diagnose every who has red spots on his face as suffering remove his myopic glasses a closer look, these spots might turn sign of out to be probably maturity, Sir, as I have said .

.

.

.

from leprosy.

If he will only and have pimples-a not of depravity.
patient Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, with due medical colleague, leprosy can be a depraved disease!

(Laughter).

respect to my worthy how I do not see The six thousand dollars of were to .

furniture Dr Lim Swee Aun: Sir, I did not imply that it was.

As I have said, the Treasury goes through with a very fine comb before approving any expenditure.
spent on the two offices of the Minis­ ter and the Assistant Minister Commerce and Industry, replace old and dilapidated You may not is true that a senior called at my office to see for himself that there was justification expenditure.

satisfied that the Treasury voucher.


Perhaps, the Honourable Member for Batu, knowing the already high mortality now agree not It was only after he was that money should be spent agreed to sign that rate of Ministers to cause the mortality believe it, Sir, but it Treasury for such official , will 2363 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2364 rise higher by exposing Minis­ rate to ters to the possibility fractured dilapidated of death by skull through the use of furniture.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Honourable of treatment he made the right Member for Batu will also agree with me that, although diagnosis, through his error in his prescription cause the death of his patient.

The Honourable Member correctly diag­ nosed the sia today, but his prescription treatment to curtail the Trade Com­ missioner's economic death of Malaysia.
services can lead to position financial he could of Malay­ of Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification, not ask for the curtailment Trade Commissioner's I did of the services.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: But he objected Sir.

to the expenditure, Dr Tan Chee Khoon: I did not object, even, Sir.

I merely stated that it was one instanca were diverted was this request object to those two for $92,000.

I did not to furniture where savings and then there appointments.
doctor of exports; no increase of n, would then be an for the Socialist Fron t the effects of the treatment by the Honourable contacts.

No new markets means no increase export means less money earned; less money earned means we shall not be able to pay for our purchases.

When we are in such an adverse position of balance of payments, our economy will be in chaos.

Once our economy is not stable the country, in such a chaotic conditio ideal situation t o fish i n trouble waters.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Mr Speaker, Sir, so you see how dangerous prescribed for Batu can be.

I am happy to announce that the Alliance ment has approved the expansion of Service and our Trade Commissioner to place it directly of the Ministry of Commerce and Industry.

The re-organisation of the London Trade Commission , which costs $ 186,366, is the first step in our expansion programme.

crease our expor·ts earnings or we face the danger of economic The Honourable be good at diagnosis sia.
ment can kill the patient-Malay Was this dangerous an honest error of judgment, or was there any intent to kill leave to this House to j udge.

under the control prescription doctor for , but his treat­ ?

Sir, that I We must in­ death.

Batu may Govern­ The Honourable Member for Tan ­ replies.
Malaysia its earnings through greater and that is, we to in­ can only Dr Lim Swee Aun: Anyway, Mr Speaker, Sir, he had his say, he made his comments and these are my It is true that our expenditure is mounting and we are finding it difficult to meet this growing expendi­ ture.

It is correct that we should prune all unnecessary There is, expenditure.

however, another concurrent and essential treatment, must explore and endeavour crease our earnings.
increase export not only primary commodities as possible To increase new markets.

we must have better market intelli­ gence.

To obtain market intelligence and contacts , we must have Commissioners tailing Commissioner by the Honourable as a cure for our economic ills, we shall not be able to obtain market intelligence but also as much of our manufactured goods.

our exports, we must have To find new markets, .


Conversely the expansion of the Trade of the traditional , or find new markets and as prescribed doctor for Batu, Service, , by cur­ Trade of the jong, also another Member o f the , advised the Govern­ noble profession investi­ ment that we should carefully in development gate before investing schemes.

That we accept.
That we accept.

But for him to imply that the development Mak Mandin Industrial Scheme in Penang by the Penang State Govern­ ment will not bring any benefit to the Unfortu­ local people is not correct.
Member is not nately, the Honourable here, but I would like to report to this House that sites allocated from the Mak Mandin Industrial Estate to ten different factories : mosquito textile vicing; a fourth to make joss-sticks; a fifth to make edible oil and coffee powder; a sixth a metal ware factory; to make tin a seventh, a factory one factory will make coils; another for a jute and mill; a third will be for ser­ have been 2365 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2366 in the Customs classification .
, before can be fully accepted of officials on duced by a Committee which the Attorney-General's Depart­ ment was represented , and they have decided that the Customs Department should take action to include this definition further action is But, unfortunately, required the in order to determine amount of batik that comes into the country under this definition this definition by the Courts.

This necessarily takes time.


Perhaps, I should also report to the House that I have personally investigated Thai silk industry, the main cause of its success, or the main reason for its success, was its ability to obtain an internationa export market.
Since endeavoured specialising tiles, to come to Malaya to assist in finding avenues for export for the bat'ik industry, and I am glad to report that I have at last found one gentleman; and we are now in cor­ respondence with RIDA to see when and how we can invite him to assist us in this industry.

Thank you very much.


in export markets on tex­ us the rejuvenation and I found that to invite an expert, then, I have of the l gunny bags and rubber articles; eighth, a factory manufac­ turing powder; ninth, a factory manu­ facturing compounds; and a tenth, a factory for household manufacturing ware.

The mill has already been jute and textile awarded a pioneer certificate and the benefit to the people in that area in is that 500 will terms of employment be employed in one mill alone.
So, I would suggest to the Honourable Member for Tanjong that he, too, should investigate, the Government.

before he criticises The Honourable Member for Dato Rules, and Standing districts.
on you yourself, Kramat in the opening of his speech inferred a criticism as Speaker of the House, when he said that Members of Parliament from Sarawak and Sabah have Singapore, their names printed on the cards which is against that in the debate here Members should not be referred to by their names but that these Members should This learned Mem­ be given ber, who is an authority on constitu­ tional law, certainly knows representation wak and Sabah is representation Malaya, in that we here are directly elected from constituencies, Members of Parliamen pore, Sarawak and Sabah are repre­ sentatives an indirect ment-and, as such, it will not be possible to have us address them according constituencie Honourable Member's apparent of memory.
to Members for certain at the s. I am surprised of the Government through to this Parlia­ , Sara­ not similar to from the States from Singapore t from Singa­ election whereas lapse that of The Minister of Health (Enche' Mr Speaker, the present surgeon.

surgeon be Templer Hospital the Ministry of Health.
Member for Batu, in Bahaman bin Samsudin): Sir, I wish to reply to some of the observations made in this House concerning The Honourable his speech on Wednesday evening, asked that a Malaysian posted to the Lady to understudy Sir, I would like Honourable today-that the Lady Templer Hos­ institution pital is a private under the control of my Ministry.

is administered nors, the Chairman of which is Tun H. S. Lee.

My Ministry financial convey the request Member to the Board of Governors.
only gives Anyway, I shall of the Honourable and is not It by a Board of Gover­ to inform the Member-he is not here assistance.

The Honourable Member for lpoh alleged that applications for supple­ mentary funds have been made under the cloak of Emergency.

Sir, I would like to assure Honourable Members I now turn to the Honourable in However, I am Kelantan Hilir.

I can Member for assure the Honourable Member that I, too, am as concerned as he is with the welfare of the people involved the batik industry.
very glad to be able to report to this House that batik has at last got a and it is defined as: "batik definition means any cloth commonly accepted in the trade as kain batik and any cloth processed-printed with patterns ordinarily accepted. "

This definition found in kain batik so was pro- 2367 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2368 to for such services.

is con­ for additional that in so far as my Ministry cerned application funds has no connection with the Emergency.
it is On the contrary, because of necessity He also said that improvements medical and health services have been atten­ slow and requested immediate tion be given to improvements to the I would like Ipoh General Hospital.

to inform the Honourable Member that improvements of medical and health services are being attended that they require the country subject, of course, to limitation of of funds; but shortage officers and trained personnel big problem and made now to tackle this problem.
and developments to with all the vigour every effort is being to meet the needs of is a With regard to the Ipoh Hospital Hospital and have been given to make I have visited this instructions the necessary improvements.

be making another visit on the 29th of this month and the Honourable Member for Ipoh has kindly agreed to come along with me to see the Hospital.
I shall The Minister of Education (Enche' oleh dan dengan itu tidak-lah sa-bagaimana biasa 8 kerat Socialist oleh Dewan ini kerana dari Batu yang Front telah menge­ Abdul Rahman bin Baji Talib): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Ahli Yang Berhormat mewakili Socialist cham dengan hebat-nya suara yang lantang menyerang cha­ dangan yang di-kemukakan Kerajaan.

Perbuatan-nya di-hairankan beliau terpaksa berbuat demikian untok menutup kekalahan parti-nya dalam pilehan raya yang lepas.
Kalau dahulu-nya Front satu pertiga daripada menggunakan masa persidangan Dewan ini, sekarang dua puntong wakil-nya terpaksa memenohkan masa itu untok menon­ j ol2kan kapada ra'ayat dan dunia yang parti-nya Tetapi saya suka hendak membuat telahan yang umor-nya tidak panjang, ta' lama lagi Yang di-Pertua, saya itu atas dasar bahawa nama parti itu dalam bahasa kebangsaan ia-lah Barisan Socialist dengan rengkas-nya B.S.

Pengundi2 tafsirkan bong.

Tetapi .

.

.

dia akan berkubor.

Tuan B.S.


itu parti Bodoh Som­ itu maseh lagi hidup.

asaskan telahan di-kawasan saya men­ .

.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Kami Socialist Front tidak menggunakan nama Barisan Socialist.

Socialist bukan Barisan Socialist.

Kami panggil Front Ra'ayat Malaysia why new stamps for the Mr Speaker, The Minister of Works, Posts and (Dato' V. T. Telecommunications Sambanthan): Sir, the Honourable Member for Tanjong about stamps.
mentioned something yet H6 asked why new stamps have not been issued for Sabah and Sarawak.

We are planning whole of Malaysia and these should be ready for issue some time next year.

At the same time he questioned we should have issued stamps for the Eleanor Roosevelt Memorial.
The fact of the matter is that we issue three commemorative year and stamps every this happens to be one of them and we issued this because this is a worldwide tribute countries and should be a party to this endeavour, particularly cancer research, We privileged this was a good cause and we felt that have taken part in it.

As for his suggestion that we have lost money on this, I think he should check up his facts before he says such things again.
made to this old lady by many we thought that we and for world friendship.

as it is associated with help for the under­ Berhormat Socialist bahawa tafsiran saya itu tidak tepat.

Yang Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Baji Front itu (Ketawa).

dari Dato' Kramat, saya ia-lah B.S.

itu Tuan Yang di­ Talib: Terjemahan dalam bahasa kebangsaan Tetapi apabila saya mendengar uchapan2 Ahli Yang Batu dan daripada mengambil kesimpulan B.S.

yang di-pakai oleh pengundi2 di-kawasan lebeh tepat-nya Soekamo (Ketawa).
Pertua, budak2 dalam rangkaian ini bukan berma'ana orang2 suroha Soekamo.

Saya katakan bahawa sa­ barang parti yang tidak berjejak di-atas bumi Malaysia ajal-nya kerana ra'ayat negara ini di-jajah demikian saya chadangkan Ahli Yang Berhormat negeri ini tidak ingin kembali.

Dengan kapada "children" tetapi n atau hamba tebusan akan menemui: ra'ayat Malaysia dari Batu supaya di-tangan Budak2 kata 2369 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2370 itu.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Kerajaan kita.


akan bagi Kementerian menghiraukan Tuan Yang di-Pertua yang sangat mustahak dari­ Tuan Yang di-Pertua, yang Pelajaran kehendak2 lain.

, tudohan itu menunggu ketika dan masa parti-nya akan masok kubor.

sekarang saya kapada kechaman yang di­ dari Berhormat Pelajaran.
banyak kemudahan kapada penuntut2 daripada negeri ini, maka telah mengambil keputusan untok menderma sumbangan sa-bagai yang di-kehendaki saya rasa bahawa perbelanjaan di-minta bagi Kementerian dalam Anggaran Tambahan ini ada-lah belanja2 pada segi kebangsaan berpaling buat oleh Ahli Yang Batu terhadap Dia telah menudoh saya telah melaku­ kan kebodohan jenayah-Criminal Folly-kerana menggunakan wang peruntokan elaun guru2 pelateh dan di-belanj Tuan Yang di-Pertua sudah melampaui batas dan di-buat dengan tidak di-berikan Menteri Kewangan yang berkuasa memberi kebenaran menukarkan untokan daripada satu sub-head kapada satu sub-head pengetahuan dari Batu, saya suka hendak menerang­ kan peruntokan itu dapat di-jimatkan ia-lah kerana dua sebab, pertama bilangan yang layak masok Maktab2 Latehan Guru ada-lah kurang daripada di-jangkakan.
di-buat 2,750 orang penuntut2 tetapi sa-telah di-adakan pilehan orang temuduga hanya di-dapati 2,400 penuntut2 Kelantan Hilir.

berkenaan peruntokan di-dalam permintaan menyebutkan biasiswa ranchangan Colombo.

Tegoran2 yang di-buat oleh beberapa orang Ahli Dewan atas kurang-nya Melayu yang mendapat biasiswa ranchangan Colombo ini ada-lah di-kesalkan.
Di-dalam dua tiga bulan yang lepas banyak kechaman2 ini berke­ telah di-terbitkan naan dengan biasiswa ini dan satu siaran yang lengkap dan jelas akan tidak berapa lama lagi.

saya keluarkan ini saya suka hendak Bagi sementara menjelaskan perkara yang di-kemuka­ kan oleh wakil daripada Kelantan Hilir itu, ia-itu biasiswa Colombo-Biasiswa dengan biasiswa ini, tetapi telah sahaja yang layak di-terima.
Ahli Yang Berhormat oleh Dewan ini kapada elaun guru2 pelateh atau bakal2 guru sunggoh pun tidak ada Kerajaan Canada.

yang bagi yang lain.

Untok Peruntokan penuntut2 penuntut2 , wakil dari ranchangan bilangan kuasa yang per­ yang tidak berasas di-negeri Yang kedua, oleh sebab2 pentad­ Yang sa-benar-nya, Tuan Yang latehan mereka itu yang terpileh akan.

Dan telah di­ di-atas sa-bahagian mengenai biasiswa Rancha­ ada di-dalam ini.
Dan satu beberapa orang biasiswa ini, hanya biran, penuntut2 hanya memulakan pada bulan April tahun 1 964.
Jadi dengan sebab2 daripada peruntokan elaun guru2 4.6 juta bagi tahun pelateh sa-banyak 1 964 telah tidak di-belanj sa-bahagian daripada-nya chadangkan untok di-belanj akan kapada sub-head2 yang Anggaran Belanjawan daripada-nya kempen antara lamatkan tugu2 peringatan Tuan Yang di-Pertua, atau pun projek menyelamatkan tugu2 peringatan projek antara bangsa ia-itu yang telah di-anjorkan oleh Pertubohan ini UNESCO.
Oleh kerana negeri menjadi ahli dalam Pertubohan itu dan menimbangkan bahawa untok kepentingan hargaan muhibbah kapada Kerajaan beberapa Masir yang telah memberikan di-Pertua, ngan Colombo, pemberian Kerajaan Canada bagi tahun ini, hanya 12 orang pelajar telah di-beri biasiswa itu, dan biasiswa itu ia-lah untok Jurusan Sain dan Perubatan.

Yang sa-benar-nya daripada yang meminta 4 orang sahaja daripada pelajar2 Melayu.

Dan keempat2 yang meminta ini.


Tetapi itu telah di-beri malang-nya sa-orang daripada 4 orang yang telah di-berikan biasiswa meninggal dunia sa-belum dapat ber­ angkat ka-Canada.

Sa-orang daripada­ nya telah menarek diri daripada rima biasiswa oleh sebab kurang kelayakan2-nya telah tidak di-terima Canada, dengan sebab itu hanya Melayu yang sa-orang sahaja penuntut telah pergi ka-Canada bagi tahun ini.

ltu-lah sebab-nya bilangan orang Melayu yang jika perrnintaan di-Nubia.
ranchangan di-Nubia itu ada-lah satu pergi itu kurang.

Jadi masok ka-University peng­ tamadun dan untok itu, dan sa-orang lagi bangsa untok menye­ ia-lah sumbangan daripada pelajar2 biasiswa kapada mene­ itu 2371 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2372 soalan di-salahkan -tubohkan dengan Melayu kurang bagi menerima biasiswa itu , itu tidak dapat-lah Kementerian Kerajaan Perikatan.

Yang di-Pertua Pelajaran atau pun Tuan Sakian-lah, unem­ I wish to of is fully aware .
Labour (Enche' The Minister of V. Manickavasagam): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Member for Kelantan Hilir raised the point regarding ployment in this country.

state that Government the problem and is doing all within its means to encourage and assist in the creation of more j obs and opportunities and also help to train our youths in acquiring the necessary skill required by the various trades.
Furthermore, an Employment and Research Section has been set up under the Prime Minister view to ascertaining and requirement sary to programmes.

My Ministry is closely associated with this Section which already has an expert advising planning.

training arrange for accelerated Kerajaan memang kita sedar per­ mengenai' penubohan duta2 kita dalam negeri Africa, telah bertalu2 menyatakan kara itu patut di sa-chepat mungkin dan perkara ini juga sedang di-usahakan pada masa ini dengan sa-berapa boleh-nya.
Kita terpaksa-lah menimbangkan wang dan terpaksa dalam perbelanjaan kita, kita mesti bongan duta2 kita dalam semua negeri Africa.
Perkara yang di-sentoh oleh beliau ia-lah kerapkali apabila ada satu2 berita menudoh Kerajaan kita selalu nampak-nya Kerajaan kita, terutama sa-kali me­ ngenai soal konfrantasi, terlambat sadikit Yang di-Pe bagitu-apabila tidak betul di-lemparkan j aan, Kerajaan mengambil tindakan yang sa-waj ar-nya tegoran2 rtua, sa-benar-nya tidak-lah with a labour availability Mr Speaker, Sir, the and wherever neces­ kan j awapan.
Tuan sahaja tudohan2 's Department untok membetulkan mengadakan menghantar Honourable Planning lain yang kapada Kera­ perhu­ on the yang itu.
The Assistant Utara pagi tadi telah of Justice (Enche' Minister of National and Rural Development and Assistant Abdul­ Minister Rahman bin Ya'kub): Tuan Yang di­ Pertua, Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Trengganu meminta supaya dalam peruntokan tahun hadapan Kerajaan hendak-lah memberi peruntokan yang lebeh banyak lagi kapada RIDA supaya RIDA dapat memberi bantuan lebeh banyak lagi kapada orang Melayu dalam soalan perusahaan dan per­ dagangan.

Sa-benar-nya tidak-lah perbahathan mentary Estimates ini.
dengan kita di-bawah Supple­ ada kena-mengena perkara ini Soalan2 yang telah di-kemukakan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Tanjong mengen ai' Kepala 1 6 dan 66, perkara ini akan Pechahan-kepala stage, saya jawab dalam committee bagitu juga mengenai soalan daripada wakil Kelantan 43 saya akan j awab dalam committee stage juga.

Hilir Pechahan-kepala Federal Dep was a legally Registrar-General, who was qualified officer by the name of Mr of the efficiency of artments in Sara­ of to the Department neral.
Mr Speaker, (in fact it is not knows Member from Sarawak-I have to mention his name, Mr Stephen Yong­ raised the question certain wak; he referred the Registrar-Ge Sir, for his information necessary to tell him since he this subject very well) this Department came into being at the end of 1 962.
The first appointed by the former colonial Government, expatriate Walker, but no sooner had he been appointed to hold the appointment, than he was assigned to do other best duties, the reasons of which are known to the former Government of Sarawak, in connection with the formation of Malaysia.
Soon after the formation concerned Assistant Federal Secretariat for some time-several fact-the Deputy Controller gration of Sarawak, qualification, almost nothing at all, in the duties connected with the Department, was asked to act as the in the in Kuching; and months in of Immi­ was transferred Federal Secretary who has no legal very little experi the officer to serve as of Malaysia, ence, or Registrar-General's Berhubong dengan perkara2 yang oleh Ahli Yang telah di-kemukakan Berhormat dari Seberang Tengah 2373 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2374 saboteurs, who is a rather Registrar­ Registrar­ companies Under the Indonesian who is now the in this country, as Not until about two of war.
We should not, to his argument, of identity registration, and and birth inten­ original Registrar-General.

months ago was a senior officer, Mr Lo Suan Hiang, present holder of the post, was appointed as the substantive General.

The Department complex one, as he has pointed o ut quite correctly.

General we have the administration estate�.

cards, immigration, death registra tion, as far as I could ascertain, was to appoint someone legally qualified, but the present holder is not so.
He has, very wide and long however, in the general administration country.

We, therefore, where in the space of a few months three Registrar-Generals conse­ The logical the Department.

quence is that the efficiency of the is very much affected.

Department soldiers, have been arrested prisoners according bring them before the ordinary civil Court and His treat them as ordinary criminals.
fear is founded on the wrong premise that if we treat these Indonesian of war, then saboteurs as prisoners our fishermen who are arrested by the s, some of them perhaps , Indonesian will be treated with fairness and justice.

Another false presumption is that-his argument necessarily implies that-some of our soldiers will be We have made in Indonesia.

arrested it clear umpteen that we do not attack Indonesia.
No has been issued to any one instruction , Border Scouts and so of our soldiers upon any part of on to transgress Indonesian no instance territory.

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.

.

.

.

have a situation times to the world So, there has been experience tion.

The are running in the Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Assis­ Sir, may I ask the Honourable tant Minister aware of many statements from British sources that they will attack Indonesia?

of Justice whether he is emanating by Mr neglected most emphatically.
I would like to refute But I would like to clear one point, Sir.

If the allegation Member from Sarawak Mr Speaker, the Honourable means that the present holder of the post and his subordinate officers have intentionally to ensure the smooth and efficient running of the Department, that allegation Lo Suan Hiang is a very capable person, he has served in several Departments.
tive officer, he was an establishment officer and he was a District In any event, we are not complacent about what is going on in respect of this Department in Sarawak, and I personally have issued instructions those sections of the Registrar­ General's Department, under the Ministry of Justice, how things can be improved in order not to cause undue delay, undue hard­ ship, to the people in Sarawak.

He was an administra­ which come to see Officer.


to Now, I would like to touch on some made by the of the observations Member for lpoh.

He has Honourable said that although a state of war has not been declared between the Fede­ ration of Malaysia and Indonesia, nevertheless, there exists a shooting sia.
For that reason, he argues that we on our part should treat Indonesian for all practical war in Malay­ purposes territory transgressed upon the territory-they bin Ya'kub: Enche' Abdul-Rahman says fact that the statement in Indonesian .

The fact, which I am where our men, our , our Border Scouts, etc., have Sir, the that they will attack does not necessa­ rily mean that they have attacked and that they have are two Indonesian different things.
What I am saying jus·t now is that not a single incidence has occurred soldiers been arrested by Indonesia sure my friend over there cannot deny and will agree with me, is that some of our men have been taken from our side of the border to the Indonesian territory except, of course, in the case of some fishermen, innocent people, who want to earn their living, and there occurred such instances.
The main argument is this : we do not send our soldiers and, to Indonesia therefore , the argument by the Honourable Member for Ipoh that Indonesia will reciprocate, our people properly, when they are arrested, does not hold water at all.

Whether or not there j ustly and fairly will treat 2375 15 OCTOBER 1 964 2376 any ca�e within twenty-four hours .

and in (excludmg the tune of any necessary journey) be produced before a magistrate not be further detained in custody without the magistrate's authority."
and shall civil country, treat ns, who have com­ state of war between it should, if a country is in by interna­ on humanitarian exists a declared �alaysia and Indonesia tional standard, even principle, fact a democratic ordinary civilia mitted ordinary criminal offence in th� country, as ordinary criminals and before the ordinary bnng them Court in Indonesia.

But Soekarno has not done that, for the simple reason­ to quote one expression used by one gentleman in "that Soekamo is an unguided auto­ crat'',.
arrestmg people, about killing and so on, and he has no sense of �air-pla � and justice at all."

So, by mt�rnational , accepted national law, if there exists no dec­ lared state of war between two nations those who com­ sovereign mitted offences �nder our criminal law, must the .

ordinary principles of law m our country-as he has no qualms about giving his lectures­ be tried in practice people inter­ do we need What other than this sacred Constitution of Malaysia?
guarantee Apart from that, he must be well a�are of the provisions of our Cri­ nun�l Procedure Code, particularly and 1 1 7 which say that sections 28 a person can be remanded in custody all a time for a maximum period of fif�een days.

In my view, and I do not thmk the Honour disag�ee w ith me on this point, this practice ensures that an arrested person who has been detained will have ample time to consult his legal adviser able Member will if need be.

A very mischievous allegati on fre­ simple as that.
prisoners to the and with accordance made by him is that the' denial quently criminal visits by, for example, legal of .

, made by the Police is for advisers the sole purpose of exercising illegal force upon a person arrested.

This allegation Mr Speaker, Sir, coming as it does Member for from the Honourable in law and Ipoh who is very learned who has a long-standing in practice this part of ' �aid.

earlier novel , and I expect he will m .


his allegation bnng up the same question during the Budget Session.

the world.

However as I o�, nothing is really is i�deed to be regretted, His other observat ion related knows people who everyone in order to force them treatment of arrested persons who were going to be charged m Court.
Of course, in this House, although I am new and have been here only a few months I have heard hill\ sitting saying in every of �arliament that the members of the Pobce Force are torturing are arrested to !Dake confessions, etc.

I am sure, dunng the Budget Session, the Honourable Member for Ipoh will repeat the same allegation.
need only remind the House, particu­ larly the Honourable Member for lpoh-he needs reminding very fre­ que?tly-about the provisions of Article 5 of our Constitution, parti­ cularly would like of the Honourable Member for Ipoh who may be listening and also others like him.

Sub-clause 3 says : "Where a person is arrested he shall be sub-clauses 3 and 4 which I to quote for the benefit outside Now, I .
mfm:m ed as soon as may be of his arrest and shall be allowed to consult ai;id be defended by a legal practitioner .

his choice of ."

of the grounds 4 says: Sub-clause "Where a person is arrested and not unreasonable released he shall without delay, already been .

Enche' T�n Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, is actually very little for Sir.
There me to add to what has said by my Honourable colleagues on the Government front bench, who adequately with most of have dealt the points which have been raised in t�e c?urs� of �is debate.

The happy situation m which I now find myself is, of course, due to the fact that this debate has, as usual run true to form in the sense that Ho�ourable Members of t�e Opposition h�ve ranged over practically every possible t�at of finance.
I, therefore, little on my paper are, in fact two which had been raised by the Member for Batu.

to reply to, and the only points ' Honourable topic except have very 2377 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2378 why as recently as July.
I can Member for He has asked the Government it has taken the trouble to present another set of Supplementary Esti­ mates to ·this House when one was presented assure the Honourable Batu that I, for one, am not wildly any set about presenting enthusiastic wheth�r of Supplementary Estimates, ordinary or development , to this House, because the work bornei by the Treasury in presenting is far greater than that borne by Honourable Members of the Opposi­ tion.
Apart from that, it does necessitate apart from other Government Minis­ ters, having to sit here and listen to one speech after another, speec�es which normally touch on everythmg points which are except the relevant raised in a Supplementary Bill.

my officials and myself, these Estimates Supply in the sense that we give done" means that we err on the side of prudence, no more than what absolutely the Honourable that supplementaries during the course of a year.

That 1s the point which I am trying to make.


we consider is then I think even Memben must concede are inevitab�e essential, He also I think, has got a mistaken of a virement.

is to enable the same Head-which , it will be of a virement that virement of funds, or savings, from which is in surplus to a idea of the function The function a transfer a sub-head sub-head-in is in deficit.

Therefore appreciated way of getting round a shortage funds which occurs in the same Head.
The very fact that we have mad� a number of virements either prudence or lack of indicate It is prudence, one way or the <?ther.

just a matter of book-keepmg , and I cannot understand Member should get so hot under the collar.

why the Honourable of does not, r think, is a useful there will be no One way.
of course, of avoiding Estimates circums­ be required is to � ke so large that mto or unforseeable to economy and Departments will be able to spend And I, there­ Supplementary the appropriations forseeable tances will a supplement in the course of a year.

But if we were to do that, as Honourable Members will appreciate, incentive and Ministries without any restraint.
fore, feel that the Opposition congratulate ever Supplementary presented estimating calculated thing unforeseen 1t 1s slight hitch necessary for the Government to come to this House to get additional appro­ priations the Government when­ are Estimates , because that shows that the were to occur, ?r .a were to develop, has been very closely , and hence if ever some­ for certain services.
should Dr Tan Chee Khoon: On a point of this of Commerce and Industry'', do understand My point, when the clarification-I business of virement.

I spoke on this "Furniture in Ministry was that there was no saving at all.

At one point there was a saving of $6,000 and it was quietly vired on to and when I read on the top furniture of the same page there is this request of $92,000.

Consequently see how this question occurred and to my mind, at least, the virement to furniture rect.
It should have been queried by the Treasury.

, I do not of savings has was incor­ Enche' Tan Siew Sin: (Rises).

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: On a point of ion, Mr Speaker, Sir, the may well be true in that the of expenditure clarificat converse calculation very badly done, so that the necessity for a supplementary necessary-the converse true.

budget may be may well be may be Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir.

That, of course, depends on the definition of "badly done".
If "badly Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, , where out to the a little-I am Minister Sir if I may continue gr;teful to the Honourable of Finance for pointing Malayan Times, a correction he said that he did not the word "malicious" with reference to me, but that it was a "facetious" remark of mind.

I am grateful for that because he knows and this House kno�s I hope, that I do not intend to m�e any malicious any one in this House.

against statement make use of 2379 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2380 to town."
Mr apparent section of that at all, except have no streets Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, cipality road paths.

These areas are virtually inaccessible by motor vehicles and at tl:i'e same time constitute severe bar­ rit:rs to through traffic Spt>aker, the only salvation a big fire, which all the fire brigades cannot prevent and where ambulances which become the breeding of thugs and gangsters Sir, is there any wonder that for such places is sure of the the vote in the tency to which he has referred.
happened, I think, was Emoluments was in excess and when this vote, which is Sir, I am aware of that little inconsis What probably that-I am not absolutely details-originally Personal Ministry furniture after an a very small vote, was.

required we transferred the amount required from the Personal to the O.C.A.R.

Emoluments section.
Emoluments section.

It later transpired that the Personal Emoluments section would have been overspent, because the proposal to create sioner Service did not I can remember, much later on; hence we found that even that vote would have been exhausted necessit outside.

and hence the from y to pump in fresh funds grounds ?
as they are inaccessible, come, as far as a Trade Commis­ in this town cannot go and section as to why , Mr Speaker, Sir, that the of Kuala Lumpur is of because If this is the is highly irresponsible, the of Home Affairs, who was for the Federal Capi­ was not Municipality Mr Speaker, Sir, when I raised questions in Parliament these roads have been neglected, Minister then answerable tal, said that the responsible for private roads.
Now I understand Municipality under the portfolio of the Minister Local Government and Housing.

I hope he takes a different view from his colleague.

of attitude of the Federal Capi­ the Commissioner tal, then I should say that the Muni­ cipality everything private.

is a private it become a public matter?

, Therefore, there is a greater need for roads to be made public.

payers use these so-called private roads.


Surely the Minister Government and Housingi is not going to tell me that Jalan Haji Taib-1 hope he konws where it is-is not used by members: of the public, or for that matter, the roads in Teong Nam Settlement or in the industrial Besi Road?

Are not the residents there paying rates ?

If they are, then is it not the duty of the Federal Capi­ tal Commissione those roads?

maintain can easily be said to be Even the removal of refuse business.
Then why should or Kampong Kasipillai area of the Sungei r to take over and Thousands of rate­ for Local Mr Speaker, Sir, I strongly believe of the Federal to take over that it is the business Capital Commissioner and maintain roads but also build new ones where there are Sir, that these numbers.

Mr Speaker, roads have been allowed to exist as they are for people living in not only these existing years is a gross negligence substantial Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time.


ADJOURNMENT Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the adjourn.

House do now Dato' Haji Sardon: Sir, I beg to second the motion.

ADJOURNMENT SPEECH INADEQUATE AND POOR CONDITION OF ROADS, KUALA LUMPUR and inadequancy in the roads for the easing Mr Spea­ a survey was con­ showing ·the appalling Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu): ker, Sir, recently published ditions in Kuala Lumpur.
It recommended, amongst other things, the construction of several expressways of traffic in Kuala Lumpur.

But I am like thousandsi others, more concerned, of the about the deplorable of this roads of the poorer sections Capital City of Kuala Lumpur where there are virtually footpaths.

Even the survey has a strong i section streets, densely populated it says, "Some large and areas of the Muni- ndictment on the inadequancy no roads except about this.
In the condition of existing 2381 1 5 OCTOBER 1 964 2382 hundreds, pass through every day.

if not thousands, of cars for has no a $ 300,000 super who pay the rates of the Commissioner but it has failed to areas, there is Along both flanks of the is the same.

The Commissioner on the part of the Commissioner The Federal the Federal Capital.

Capital Advisory Board has not been slow in building mansion for the Federal Capital, help the citizens and assessments.
All over the town, not only in the so-called slum areas but also in well-built this neglect.

main roads, the story\ Federal Capital excuse for this breach of duty.

There are ample provisions Ordinance Enactment adequate are made for arrangement!1 roads before any development takes place.

Mr Speaker, Sir, even if roads have deteriorated d, the Municipality neglecte construct these roads and charge the land owners or those houses these roads.
As such, I call upon the Minister of Local Government and Housing to direct the Federal Capital Commissioner to give due attention these places instead of concentrating who live in or worrying about those the Lake Gardens or Kenny Hill.
and the Town Boards for him to see to it that in the Municipal or have been that front can re­ to The Minister of Local Government Khaw Kai-Bob): Sir, I thank the Honour­ and Housing (Enche' Mr Speaker, able Member for Batu for the points raised in his adjournment Generally within the Municipal the responsi of the Federal Capital, in a good state of repairs.

, all public roads limits, which are of the Commissioner speaking speech.
are maintained bility Mr Speaker, Sir, I happen to know about this Jalan Haji Taib, street and was not standards.

How­ something which has been mentioned by the Honourable Member for Batu.

As for Jalan Haji Taib, until very recently this was a private made up to Municipal ever, in mid-September approval for the widening and improvement of this to acquire land is now under way.

This road will be taken over as a public street and maintained Municipality will satisfy for Batu.

thereafter.
thereafter.

the Honourable I hope this Member I gave by the road and action Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu): I am very grateful the Honourable Government and for that assurance from Minister Housing.

of Local Enche' Khaw Kai-Bob: Thank you.

the action was taken long In fact, before this matter was raised by the Honourable Member for Batu (Laughter).

Look at the splendid Jalan Duta !

Whom does it serve?

How many people benefit from it?


Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not think that the construc­ tion of roads in those areas I have mentioned much more than would cost the cost of roads , I Road and Jalan Duta.

Therefore urge the Federal Government to give urgent attentio the Commissioner to construct Capital of urgency.
certificate of the Federal these roads on a n to this matter and ask like the Parliament Mr Speaker, Sir, before I sit down the Minister for again, I would urge Local Government and Housing to go and see Jalan Haji Taib, which is just off Batu Road, and see the potholes that are there.
The people of that area have time and again peti­ and, the tioned the Municipal , Ibu Kota, but up to Pesuroh Jaya now have had no redress holes that exist in that road, where literally thousands of pedestrians Engineer for the huge and As for Jalan Kasipillai , the Com­ and other complications of the Federal Capital No road reserve 900 feet of that to take over this road the Federal Capital in a of land to be in missioner considers will involve very large amount acquired regard to construction.
exists for approximately this road.

However, has accepted the includes the long-term immediate quate road access to all existing residents to· approximately which are proposed 2 1 9, approval solution.
As for the ade­ problem of providing th� making up of this road as was given by me on the the Commissioner plan, which in adjoining Lot of Kasipillai Kampong, and lay-out 50 terrace-houses 2383 .15 OCTOBER .1 964 2384 for the 1 9 64 for the making 8th of October, and its con­ up of Jalan Selvadurai and for land tinuation, Jalan Bachang, to be acquired The purpose.

estimated including across the Sungai Batu, is $ 11 0,000.

This is the simplest method of overcoming access to Kampong Kasipillai.
cost of the street works, of a bridge the construction the problem of and cheapest a private due regard land acquisition Capital.

street In mapping out the must be paid such development.

programme to the finances of the Federal The taking over of involves be very expensive, ters in some cases and consultations with frontagers, of the expenditure tioned, a matter which accomplishe Thank you, Sir.

is to be appor­ cannot be d without some delay.


amongst whom some removal of squat­ , which can As these are the two roads which came up for special mention Honourable able to reply in some detail regarding these roads.
by the Member, I have been I would like to mention, that the taking over of private as public streets is a continuing missioner maps by the Federal the Com­ process and for out a programme however, streets Capital Dr Tan Chee Khoon: I am grateful from the Minister for the assurance of Local Government Jalan Haji Taib and Jalan both of which are and Housing on in my constituency.

Kasipillai, Question put, and agreed to.

Adjourned at 6.40 p.m.