Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697796902132.pdf (Guyana)
275 Jfembers Prl!stm,tLEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Suga1· A·ejerence 276 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

South).

The Hon.

J. Gonsalves, (Georgetown Thiwsday, 2ht April, 1932.

The Hon.. A. E. Seeram (Eastern Demerara.)

The Council mt>t pu1·�uant to adjourn­ ment, His Excellency EDWARD DENHAM, K.C.M.G., in the Chait·.

President, the Gowrnor, Sm K.B.R., The Hon.

Jung Bahadu·r Singh (Dem­ ).

erara-l�ssequebo The Hon.

G. E. Anderson Member).

Unofficial (Nominated PRESENT.

The Hon.


M. B. G. Austin (Nominated Unofficial Member).

The Hon, the ColoniiLl Secrettwy, Mr. C. Douglas-JoneR, C.M.G.

The Hon.

the Attornev-General, Mr. Hector Josephs, tab.

), LL.B.

(Lond.).

K.C., B.A�, LL.M.

(Can­ The Hon.

T. T. Smellie (Nominated Unofficial Member).

The Hon.

P. James Kelly, M.B., Ch.

B., Surgeon-General.

The Hon.

F. J. Seaford (Nominated Unofficial Member).


MINUTES: The minutes of the meeting Council and circulated, held on the 20th April, were confirmed.

of the as printed The Hon.

F. DitLs (Nominated Unofficial Member).

The Hon.

T. Millard, C.M.G., Colonial Treasurnr.

Major the Hon.

W. Bajn Gray, M.A., Ph.D.

(Edin.

), of Education.

B. Litt.

(Oxon), Director The Hon.

J. S. Dash, B.S.A., _,.

of Agriculture.

Director The Hon.

B. H.. Wood,,M.A:, Dip.

For.

of For(lsts.

Conserva,tor (Cantab.


), The Hon.

S. _.-H. Bayley, General Transport and Harbours Depart­ Manager, ment.

The Hon.

W. A.

D' Andrade, Comp­ (_Mr.

of the Council tb the and Justice GOVERNMENT NOTICES.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL gave notice that at the to be held on the of Criminal Law " to amend the Criminal Hector Josephs) meeting 26th April he would move that "A Bill to amend the law with respect administration otherwise be read the second time ; also that at the next meeting duce and have read a first time "A Bill to remove doubts as to the authority of the Georgetown advances of the Colony for the construction tain imprqvement to repay tl:i.e moneys so advanced pay interest thereon until ment."
of money from the Government Town Council to receive works in Georgetown, he would ask leave to intro­ such repay­ qf cer­ and to troller of Customs.

Major the Hon.

J. C. Craig, M.E.I.C.

, UNOFFICI_AL NOTICE.

D.S.O., Dil'ector of Public Work,i, Mr, WEBBER gave notice of the follow­ The Hon.

E. G. Woolford, K.C.

(New Amsterdam).

The ·Hon.

N. Cannon (Geo1·getown North).


ing questions :- 1.At what salaries ha,,e recent in the Customs and other Departments been made, a.nd what a.re the salaries drawn by such (!fficers?

2, If such salaries such as have been promotions now being are not The Hon.

A. V. Cmne, LL.B.

(Lond.)

(Demerara River).

pasaed reason holding by the Legislative for such change and authority the legal appropriations Council, wha.t is the for with· ?

The Hon.

Percy C. Wight, O.B.E.

(Georgetown Central).


PREFRENCE ON SUGAR' The Hon.

A. R. F, Webber, F.R.G.S.

Mr. SEAFORD: I ask permission bring before the Council to which a question (W�stern :Berbice).

271 Motion.

1 APRIL, 1932.

-S1tgrtr ·h:Pjere11ce .

;l78 I consider is of sufficient delay for a short time the Order of the Day.

With that in view I move the sus­ pension for that purpose.
of the Standing Rules and Orders importance to ce because had it not been for this assistan which we have now suc.ceeded in getting it for the would have been quite impossible maj·ority of the sugar estates in this Colony to cal"l'y on.

In fact, even with this assistance it is still going to be very difficult for �he smal\P.r ones to go on.

THE PRESIDENT : What is the nature·· of the question ?

Mr. SEAFORD: It is with reference of the increased the granting on sugar to this Colony by the Mother Country.
of the House to deal with the matter as of public importance.

I now move the adjournment to preference Mr. AUSTIN seconded.
Question put, and agreed to, Mr. SEAFORD : Sir, I beg to move the following resolution :- respectfully of the grateful That this Council reg nests His to convey to His in the United Kingdom the Governor Go,•ernment Excellency Majesty's an expression people of Bl'itish assistance industry ence o, sngar, and their appreciation timely help l!iven, as it has been, at, a time of severe industrial and financial in the Mother Country.
afforded �he Colony's by the grant of the increased depression thanks of the principal prefer· of this Guiana for the sub�tantial strain I do not think in moving this resblution ; given to that It will not need any full and unanimous is given to the Colony as a whole.

to give this reso­ support.

It is I think, sir, what part the plays in this Colony, and I feel sure, are very for this assistance that has I may say like some I need say very much on the subject it speaks for itself.
words from me, I think, to persuade hon.

Members of this Council lution fully realised, sugar industry also that any assistance industry We in this Colony, deeply grateful been given.

Perhaps people we had hoped for more, because when I say so we had asked for more and our r,eason time .sugar is going through a much greater a year ago,, The price to-day is worse than ever it had been imagined.
I say, sir, that this preference, and which is · roughly about $7 per ton, when added to to-day's below the price which could have been obtained of the year.
But, sir, that being the case it makes the help all the more timely, slump than was anticipated for our sugar at the beginning for that was that at the present which has been granted world's price is still But, Rir, I do not wish it to be thought; a certain in further I do not wish it to from taxation the taxpayers because it must be we have bee11 given at a time when the Mother the day before yesterday, in the Home amount of no such relief was when we say we had hoped for more, that we say so in any niggardly spirit or that we are not gnLteful, borne in mind th,Lt this 11ssistance Country is passing through ver·y severe industrial depression.
It must be home in mind that in the Budget laid on the table in England although Country expected relief given them at all.

As a matter of fact, sir, in order to give us this help they will have to bear over £1,000,000 ti1xation.

Therefore go ,1.broad that we do not appreci,Lte what has been done for us, and I feel sure that this Council does it.
I would like publicly Govemment try of this Colony, for the very ready a,nd able help which you have given to the �uga1· in the struggle which it has made to get the preference quite appreciate and, in factf we know only too well, that our t,Lsk would have been very much more difficult had it not been for that able help and assistance which have got from you and Government.

We really 'it, and I thank you and Government for it on behalf of the I do not think I need say sugar industry.
more, except to hope that this resolution will go through mous vote.

apprecinte to thank you, sir, and the on behalf of the sugar indus­ do appreciate the Council with a unani­ industry given it.

We we endorse in revenue When it is the United Kingdom is losing Mr. AUSTIN : Sir, I beg to second the In doing so I cordially made by the hon.

Nomi­ mo.tion.

all the remarks nated Member, Mr. Seaford.


realised that over £1,000,000 in giving this increased to the_ Colonies time when the people at Home are being called upon to make real sacrifices balance should be very grateful Government sure, therefore, unanimously has done to assist us.

I am will be � their own Budget, this Colony that the resolution preference for what the Home passed in this Council, at a to 279 .

S,i9a1· }>reference i1 APRIL, 19�2.


Dangerous Dr%gs Bill 280 Mr. ANDERSDN : Sir, I would like to made by m)'self•with the remarks identify the last two speakers.

motion has said, at a time in value.

when it will be of special our history Motion put, and agreed to.

to reiterate what has Dr. KELLY seconded.

the relief colleagues with the motion.
I desire on behalf of but of the Colony as a whole are the only persons who wish with the profession communicated themselves that and be taken to indicate merely that we do not wish to Mr. WEBBER: Sir, I trust it will not go on record that the three Members, who Members and happen to be Nominated also to be identified which has received yesterday, to identify Lest silence interpreted oppose the motion, my Elected been said by those Members and to ask you to convey the grateful thanks not only of this Council for the effort made by the Imperial ment to save the Colony's difference Whatever enjoy in this Council, methods and policies or " Sugarcrats," sugar industry its principal industry flourishes; of commerce and indu�trial at all times-no Therefore suffers.
how we criticise whole we realise industry acknowledge ,ourselves mainstay­ vVhen the sugar the whole Colony house undertaking matter of opinion we may or otherwise, as to of the Phintocracy them sometimes-on the what an asset the sugar is to the Colony and gratefully the help given and identify flourishes when it goes down ever·y Govern­ staple industry.

with the thanks proffered.

we feel sure that the is the Colony's industry.

ORDER OF THE DAY.

THE LEGITUIACY BILL.


THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I that " A Bill to amend the law relating children the third time.

born out of wedlock move to " be read the Question third time and "That this Bill be now read a passed " put, and agreed to.

Bill read the third time.

DANGEROUS DRUGS BrLL.

Ta.E ATTORNEY-GENERAL : I move that " A Bill to amend the Dangerous Drugs Ordinance, powers of entry and inspection of offences punishment nance " and to the the Ordi­ be read the third time.
1929, with respect against to Dr. KELLY seconded.

Mr. CRANE: I move an tmendment because for saying, and.

appreciate when the third of making a request, THE PRESIDENT: I do not think I need add any.thing to what has been said by the hon.

Member who has moved the except to say that I am sure the motion, whole Colony does realise help that has been given at the substantial this time.
1 say " substantial" in the text the same word is used by the of the mover of the motion in respect at Home at the present time.

position That i;; where we feel particularly that the Home Government been able to do something like this.

We do feel that they have given the maximum assistance must have been difficult ance, and given it on a basis that will be to this Colony and valuable also to our neighbours Sea.

I think it is largely Government Imperial and other sugar-growing has been made, as the hon.
countries, and it mover of the at a time when it to find such assist­ this Bill was going tb_rough re­ that this Bill be read a third time six months from date.

I move the amendment in order to put myself within the rules for I think I the purpose on behalf of have autho1·ity the Elected Members, reading of be respectfully that the Governor his assent to the Bill to withhold quested and to cause to be transmitted Secretary His Majesty both on the second reading Those of us who took mittee yesterday.
part in the debate had a consultation after and are taking this step the adjournment because we feel that our point of view should be put to those finally responsible for giving this Bill legal effect.
The point to the which we desire is that Secretary as we have done the reason for legislating in this Bill being to bring the law into with what it is in England, conformity that law affords to the of raised objections and in•.Com­ a person charged with in the Caribbean from the should have for us at a time of State for the informatioµ of State for bhe,Co1onies to put specifically to the West Indies and helpful the precise grateful lb gesture as a 281 Dangerous Driigs BilZ 21 APRIL, 1932.
'f>_owers of Attorney J{iU 282 and I am therefore the Bill until it as really and to put in Council the remarks made and send does justify which are quite of roy assent to the Bill.

with that this point being I am quite that it is raised in connection.

O1·dinance given further consideration.

prepared to put before the Secretary of State the representations him a full report of the debate, the point of view expressed fully as I can do so besides made by hon.

Members, full on the point.


I do not agrne that there is any question with regard to the validity can see no reason why my assent be given, it is repugnant cannot accept that, and I do not think the hon: Member re,tlly At the same time the point raises an important of further prepared is sent to the Secretary "representations should pass its third reading, the hon.

Member if he would withdraw amendment of State with the made.

But I think it and I ask his do I accept the point that to the law of England.
consideration, not to assent to to the third reading.

which is deserving that I would.

question, thought should not 1101· I I Mr. CRANE; Yes, sir; I withdraw my amendment.

Question " '.l'hat this Bill be now read a time and passed " put, and agreed to.

time.

Bill read the thit·d TH•, PRESIDENT: I declare has passed its third reading, will not be given until it is sent to the Secretary the Bill and assent of State.
subjects offence the right to to the safety and liberty subjects the matte1· in our summary conviction claim trial by jury a similar right to claim trial by jury on a charge under this Bill should be given to His Majesty's in these parts.
We considered as one of such great importance, humble opinion, of British allow any opportunity register opportunity conveying request that his assent should not be given to this Bill, and our representations mitted to the Secretary specific to claim trial by jury should also be given here, here that we could not to pass and not This is the last therefore I am out· respectful sub­ of State on the we shall have, to the Governor our protest.
poiut that the right of the subject, Mr. WEBBER: I second the amend­ of with the signed, and 1 hope the opportunity the impotence by all the Electives Members who can see their themselves not to give your assent to this has been the came for the amendment to the It to indicate ment.

We all realise the motion without Your Excellency's goodwill.
We propose to hand to the Governor of the Colony a request I trust, Nominated way to identify request, Bill untjl a further given i:;o those from whom practically instructions Bill to consider is possible to-day that you will take this as an in­ formal request to withhold your assent and so save us the formality of handing it in in writing.

Another Governor gave us that promise occasion.

There .

is a provision Validity Act that we cannot pass a law which is repug­ nant to the law of England.
from England may come here and find that he is being tried under a different law to what obtains on another in the English our repi·esentations.

for Your Excellency in England.

A subject thit'd THE PRESIDENT : I appreciate the but the with regard to that depends Drngs Ordi­ point made by the hon.

Members, difficulty of Government this Bill is the fact that the principle pro­ posed is really a principle no way upon the Dangerous nance.
It would have been introducing new principle Bill shortly which notice was amend the law with respect tration of Criminal Justice to amend the -Criminal t.pis very point is raised.

to come before the Council given to-day-a a of the law here.

There is a to the adminis­ and otherwise Law-in which I think the fact of Bill to thi1·d in FAWCETT Pt:NSION Mr. MILLARD (Colonial BILL.

Treasurer): I move the thil'Cl reading make provision Captain A. Fawcett, B1·itish Guiamt Militia Bandmaster Band."
of the of " A Bill to for granting a pen,;ion to Professo1· DASH seconded.

Question " That this Bill be now l'ead a time and passed " put, and agrned to.

Bill read the thi1·d time.

Pow1ms OF ATTORNEY BILL.

itself The Council resolved _mittee and rnsumed consideration into Com­ of "A 283 Powers of Attorney BiZl 21 APRIL, 1932.

-Committee 284 Bill to make provision recording.

eftect and their revocation to the of powers of attorney, " with respect their action is taken under those powers.
The for the person to act is the pro­ authority bate granted to him or the letters of administration.

and it has been considered, A ques­ to clause 3 THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL: tion was raised with respect (as renumbered) and I am going to propose an amendment which I think will meet with the approval of hon.

Members.

In accordance with the view expressed by the hon.

Member River, I propose the inser­ for Demerara tion of the words "obtaining or " after the word "the " at the end of the third line.
The clause will then read :- 3.

· A power of attorney (other or a special power providing of a transport, ad lites passing the cancellation viding for the obtaining or letters of adminis &c. purpose), mortgage of a. mortg1tge, or recording than a power for the or lease or for or a. power pn.
and for no other of pr.Jba.te �ration Mr. DIAS: It strikes me that if _this will be entailed assuming less revenue is adopted, of obtaining to be are required I know people keep them at that the is only made for the probate or 1·ecording amendment power of attorney purpose from abroad, because to-day no power of attorney is exempted from payment of duty.

All powers of attorney recorded.

home and do business them.

The purpose a stop to that practice.

attorney be recorded, power without formalities.


low a loss of revenue.

of this Bill is to put If a power of probate need not you will be able to use that In that case there must fol­ going through the usual for recording without recording Mr. DIAS: Whatever virtue there roity be in the proposed amendment not apply to power ad lites.

Powers of attorney port 01· mortgage for and the tax is paid under the Tax Ordinance, of passing are specially trans­ provided for the purpose it does l\fr.
CRANE: I think the amendment Where a power purpose arid it with the to the act performed urider of that nature is a suffi­ be is in the right direction.

of attorney is for a special is used it is bound together papers relating it.

Registration cient record and the public should>-not put to the necessity In the which would be the case otherwise.

of the public I am bound to sup­ interest port the amendment, is going to get more revenue because two powers of attorney when they are important.
which the Attorney-General cerned himself about is the use of the power acl lites or the power acl litem.

The only point has not con­ will have to be recorded and Government of doing it ,twice, Mr. GONSAL YES : I should like to know whether it is contemplated where you a1·e transferring a lease that this clause will permit of its going through without the transfer vision wide enough to cover the transfer a mortgage a lease ?

or the transfer of Is the pro­ of being recorded.


the It or large con­ law is contained of " those in judicial for the power or authority called powers ad lites and for the passing THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The in section 18 of It will be Ordinance.

that it does not provide for of all powers of attorney.

present the Deeds Registry obse1·ved recording makes an exception proceedings those providing of trans­ ports, mortgages, leases, only and for no other purpose."
proposed adding to it powers of attorney in relation to probate or letters In the amendment will be made to the present exemption power of obtaining or letters sulted the principal the· inatter and he informs me that no I have con­ of administration.

in · Mr. WOOLFORD : The expression "power acl lites" is a comprehensive expression usually given by companies cerns which are likely to be little repre­ sented in a Court of Law and which have as a rule a permanent I think solicitor.
between the expres­ that is the distinction sion of power ad lites and power ad litern.

For a power of attorney which enables a person to execute charge of $1 · 20 under the Deeds Registry Ordinance.

special required to be passed before a Court of Law, and that is a lease for 20 years and over.

I do not think you ought every lease, alone will have that effect.

I have also risen for the purpose of administration.
the only addition that is and the word " lease " standing is to vitry that somewhat by The only lease to which this or cancelhttions is, I take it, a lease officer concerned or recording powe1· relates a mortagage attention of calling of probate to exempt there is a Wha,t is 285 Powers oJ Attorney Btll 21 APRIL, 1932.
Penstons, etc., ]J°i}t ·28t, his authority, in ascertaining to as I do but It very in which he grievance in it usually has to be put before the to get his document to be deposited, the person mentioned Whether the power relates as quickly one may repair to that that a person instruets to prepare a power of of fees in the Deeds Registry the person to pay, in my opinion, or not he is authorised.

I do not is going to · much.

Under the Tax Ordi­ to a long-standing of those who have to record these documents.
frequently happens his legal adviser attorney.

On going to the office of the Deeds Registry with that power of attorney desires possible.

Although office not only with the main power with a true copy of the document which is intended in the hope that it will be looked after speedily and given back as quickly as possible, the schedule requires a very exorbitant power whi0h he himself has laid over.

Considering the revenue itnd public convenience, where is the justice of the charge?
If you are going to make it obligatory to place all these docu­ ments on record, I hope it will be found possible to alter the fees entailed.

in mind that you are not only increasing the cost to the public who desire to be represented in this way, but also com­ pelling the addition of a fee aecording to the length of the document been considered that in respect copy is furnished should be some corresponding be.

A power ad lites is an authority somebody to bring an action on behalf of his principal.
to a single action or actions generally not think there is any necessity to record it, beeause in each instance sues the authority Court with the document and he can alw,tys be made to produce so there is no difficulty whether think the loss to Government be anything nance the only power·s from st,tmp duty are powers ad lites, and all other powers are subfect to duty.

There will no doubt be increased by reason of the fact that no person can aet unde1· and paying the fees.

The hon.
The hon.

Member for Demerara that in view of the point raised by the hon.

Member for New Amsterdam it is well to .idd to the exemption th�words " or for the execution or assignment of a par­ ticular" between the words " transport " and" mortgage" in the second line.

Havi,ng regard to the amendment seems to me it will carry out the spirit _ the exemption.

that has long I think to be exorbitant.

of all documents when a might well be included, and it of there reduction.
to the Department sum for the copy of the River has pointed which are exempt " That this clause exemptions as amended provided Question revenue for -this out to !Ile Bear stand part of the Bill" put, and agreed to.

a power without recording it THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL : I appre­ The case when a docu-• a copy of it is made in of the hon.

Membe1· is that ordinarily presents a copy ,tlong with for the purpose of its as a correct copy.

It might be ciate the argument with regard to the last point raised.
The position ment is presented the office in order to return the original, and the copy is kept in the office and the charge which is made now is a charge for the actual work of copying.

as the hon.

Member puts it is that a practitioner the original being certified seems to me that the question •considered whether of charging a fee for copying there should not be charged for the mere certification think that is a matter that might very well be considered.

that these documents certain _ prescribed.


that the interpretation anything in such cases instead the document a different that should be I agree with the hon.

Member else than what they purport size and quality If it is required should be on paper of a (Hear, hear).

I of laws can mean fee to The Council resumed.

Notice w,ts given that at the next meet .. Council ing of the the Bill be read the third time (Attorney­ General).

it would be moved that Pt:NSIONS (VOLUNTARY RE'l'IREMENT) �ILL.
The Council resolved itself into Com­ " A Bill to authorise mittee to consider the Governor-in-Council or gratuities in certain the Fixed Establishment retire from the Public Service h,we qualified for pension."

cases to officers on before they to grant pensions who voluntarily Mt·.

MILLARD : During the course of the second reading of this Bill the hon.
Member for Demerara River a;,ked that the Council to the use of this prnvision tary retirement regarding of officers and some detqs ta.ken or likely to any decision for the volun­ be given some information as 287 P1msions Bili.

etc., .,,_ 21 APRIL, 1932.

Deeda Registry Bill 288 of the office of a Surveyor, As a .

case of a a gi·eat pension as I stated, voluntarily · There is another as from the of $560 and of which was $2,400 per annum.
of the Lands aud Mines Depart­ in order to enable Government to for voluntary was conditional A circular officers to offer, if they subject of their offer' being condi­ on economy being secured.

number of hiwe bPen madfl in the case of liability.

Surveyor ment.

He retired 1st July at a reduced a lump sum of $3,040.

This secures retrenchment the salary There are certain sideration, because allowing be taken.

The prov1s10n retii-emeut, on· economy being secured.
was -is�ued inviting desired·, to retire voluntarily to the approval tional result of that circular calculations officers who have offered to retire tarily ascertain by the acceptance which this House will be justified cases have been considered and it was ing to the discretion found that in some economy can be I shall only express secured.

thing will be done in order to secure the taken to secure that economy.

Others public interest.


and it has been found have been examined ment the machinery that economy will not be secured by allow­ and we hope real economy and not make- to retire voluntarily.

ing the a,pplioants 8hifts that we I think hon.

Melllbers will realise have reached in l'!taffing and the point of retrenchment of staff.

economy could not be secured the application.

economy will be secured of the offer.


· Several of Government, the hope that-eve1·y­ Mr. CRANE : It seems to me a matter while others had to be refused In those cases action has been We are giving Govern­ of the Bill ag1·eed in leav­ and will be effected.

in limitation cases still under con­ for effecting to without whether economy Clauses volun­ by further discussion.

...

The Council resumed.


Notice was given that at the next meet­ ing of the Council it would be moved that the Bill be read the third time (Mr.. 111 illard).

becoming ripe for retirement, of the Bill was of the records under the conditions gov­ and I have of those cases.

Since the second reading taken I have searched cases dealt with and under consideration.
Cases are regularly consideration erning voluntary a note here of eertain The first case I have a note of is the in the Treasury, Messenger who was allowed on the ground voluntarily that economy will be secured.

not i,ervecl the full period for pension a,nd came under a grntuity of *285. therefore was $30 per month and he has His salary to retire He had on as _ been replaced by a Messenger on the Un­ at the same salary, was allowed Govemment which comes under of this Bill.
In that case to retire fixed Esta,blishment which is the salary he received of the Local Messenger Board.

There is the case of the Band­ master of 'the Militia the conditions the Bandmaster a,nnum.

His services of $385 per pension at $1,200 a year, and have been retained being $2,100 there is a his previous of $515.

Then there is the Pay difference of Police.

He has ·and Quarter-Master been allowed His to retire voluntarily.

reduced pension is $852 14 and his lump a saving of the sum $4,872.
This secures and salary $240 service of of the former and the $120 in the salary present Pay and Quarter-Master.

s111virig is �ecured against of one Warrant Officer, $1,920, also a difference allowance, the pension s11lary 'l'hat THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL DEEDS REGISTRY BILL.

: I move of the proceeds added, 4, with respect and of sales in 26 and 27.

Then there is a Ordinance, to Transports " be read the second time.
The provisions of the Deeds Registry to be dealt with are contained to amend the Deeds Chapter 177, .

with and Mortgages that " A Bill further Registry respect the distribution ·execution particular Ordinance in sect,ions clause subject Deeds Registry Ordinance 1919 and in 1925 an amendment That amendment tory either the defect is to be a new sub-clause which reads :- Section Originally was passed in was made.

to legal or commercial is now being put right.


There to transports the was bv no means satisfae­ to incumbrances.

to section of t-he Principal Ordiuance me1� anµ 26 twenty-six :- is hereby a.mended as follows (a) by substituliug j!raph (ii.)

of the proviso to sub-section the_reof :- the following (3 for para.

{ii) if the sale in execution is for the recovery or enforcement title claim,.

tbE; shall te free frolll �ll re�jstllre<l incu� of I\ statutory 289 Deeds Regi,qt1·y Bill 21 APRIL, 1932.
-SP,cond Reading 290 registered interests o.nd , egietered but any pe1 son may, within thirty b, ances, leases, days f1om the dale c,f the sale (before which time judicial be passed), amount of the statutory and thereupon and That makes it quite clear that pay to the Registrar cli.im and C< sts, sale transport shall not the the sale shall be annulled whoever creating the terms, covenants in the instrument interest brance, rights if the in cum bra nee, interest cnated by the transportee Dr. KELLY seconded.
; or lease had been .himself.

and conditions conta.ined that incumbrance, or lease and the holder of the incum­ h,terest and remedies against the tran!

:portee as or lease shall have the same shall have an absolute title and it will not be or with is in accordance incumbrance to any registered else.

That makes a purchase and indefeasible subject anything what the law is elsewhere.
vision for ( cl) which reads : is to substitute in sub-section a new paragraph ( 4) of section Tl1e next pro­ 26 {d) 1·egistered incumbrances from which the of the by opera.t.ion title is freed by operation of either provisos or to sub-section otherwise priority of rank, pro\'ided of the amount due under any such iucum­ brance shall be given to the Registra.r within fourteen sale.
(3) of this section of law in order of notice days from the date of the in writing (3) of this section of either of the provisos What will happen under this clause incumbrances is that only registered will be paid from ,1 hich the title is freed by to operation sub-section wise by operation priority stituted very important point with regard to the priority debts, of law in order of 27 is sub­ which I believe is stand­ from a commercial of paying of rank.
For section a provision or other­ and it reads : 27, A mortgn.gee advances or p1 iority mortgages to rank in prioriLy sholl be deemed to have had and or to and with tbe s•me pre­ in as if they were included if in such mortc,:age it is may make such after the firRt day of Ja.nnary and twenty, shall have a right to make further loans to the mortgagor subsequent ference the prior mortgage, stated that the mortgagee further advances 'l.dvo.nces or loans are to be covered by the mortgage se�ure certain mortgage as the limit beyond which or balan<'e (after creditir.g by the mortgagor mo,tgagor or loans or that such further or secur.id is Lo and some thereunder) at any one time shall not extend.
an overdraft or loan account., and definite in the snm is expressed the a.mount made any i,aymenls owing by the or that the mortgage to of with it befo1·e these amend­ connected are attended Mr. CRANE: to as soon as they over the statute roost concerned urgent consideration from time to time.

In matters but I think it should appoint The importance of the to the general law and is so great that I think very care­ should be given to them.
with respect to go into the law of with a view to effecting amendments practice ful consideration I wish to say something the methods by which these amendments are secured of this kind the parties should be consulted ments are made.

'.rhe Civil Law Ordinance and all Ordinances require by a compe­ tent body of men no less than the Ordi­ This Ordi­ nance we are now amending.

nance was passed in 1919, amended in 1925, 1929 and 1931, and it is now being sought to a.mend it in 1932.
Tit-bits amendments are scattered book and the public whom they affect are unable to ascertain what the law is.

I am not blaming the hon.

Attorney-General.

Matters are bl'Ought to his notice, is time that Government proper Co!llmission property and necessary in the law; here we hav� mystery.

It appears that the intention of clause 2 is that when a p1·operty sold in execution or enforcement shall be free from any incumbrance.
claim it is absurd to say that·when a man buys a property ma.n within 30 days should be in a position to disappoint made.

One can understand Council the To,�n and allowing tiixes we are making it difficult collect their debts because chasers witl1in Govemment before they are these matters 3 does not appear to be the Council.

Clause The as I first thought.


as objectionable note I put against it was the word " Fraud " but I 6.nd it is p�oyided for in the original will say that if they buy a property 30 days the sale might be annulled.

ought to get public opinion brought to to pay the within 30 days.

But to pur­ he has the case of at a public sale another We want certainty for the recovery him of the contract the proprietor and re-acquire of a statutory for creditors purchasing a property claim title reforms.
intended urgent on is a I That is in accordance with the ordinary usage of a mortgage covering commercial further advances.

relates to incurubranc and useful addition Clause 4, as I said, to the effect of transport subject e, and it is a very important 4.

Whenever to our law.

It reads: (in<'lnding a transport i2 passed subject registered a judicia.l to a.uy regis­ interest.

or regis.
or regis.

sha.11 be bound bf all sale transport) tered incumbra.n<'e, tered lease, the tr11,neport under a mortgage passed nineteen hundred 2 91 Deeds Registry ])ill 21 APRIL, 1932.

-Second Reading 292 on the against because and making a mortgagor and whatever a man to lend no a.nd iL fraudulent their headR together you can trace transac­ in my view by the knowledge that This clause pei-mits on the Ordinance, but it.

'l'hat view is also augmented opinion of several Ordinance.
lend $5,000 but he ma.y actually more than $2,000.

You miLy get a fraudu­ lent mortgagee putting mor·tgage deed for $5,000 when only $2,000 had been lent in actual fact.

It iR likely to lead to fraud.

It will defeat the claims of other -credito rs who have debts juRt tLR sacred as thoRe of mort�agees.

If it we1·e only companies thtLt we1·e lending money on mortgages there would not be the same objection tions through their books, but �L large number of individuals no books.
\Vhen you make a claim preferent and not possibly fraud.

In the hands of unscrupulous money-lenders this provision means of fraud.

It seenrn are destroying to a creditor encumber sion in the existing Time should be taken to consider effect of these provisions.

do not intend to put my knowledge his as a jurist I say is the re­ sult of my own judgment in the matter.
It is not to be taken as an ex catlieclra pro­ nouncement I am consoled it was shared by Judges sitting Bench to-day and otherH who previously occupied by the considered members of the profession addressed In the first place the statement Attorney-General, at execution free and absolute down to him, is in my opinion statement Attomey-General himself induced argument I had no opportunity matter with him.

Section Ordinance of the law.
I do not think the would have been to say so if he had the benefit of to give notice further and tlmt the provi­ and I iLm sorry of discussing the 26 (3) of the after the lir$t nineteen hun-tred aud twenty, the safeguard that one proposes on him a title to property it ought to be unimpeachable knocked not a correct reads : A judicial sale transport day of January, shall vest in the tro.nsferee the lull and absolute title lot and interest subject incumbr istered therein, to (a) statutory n.nces; leases.
claims; (b) interests or the rights in the transport might be the to me that you their minds to the subject.

law should be retained.

that the purchaser sale has conferred on the subject, (cl registered lend money and keep his p1·operty he immovable be the ,mbject property, The Council des(lribed adjoumed for lunch.

who have matter of passed of the the to ; registered ; (d) reg­ sanctity and it should not be open to 1\ir.

CRANE: I propose to a.dd very remarks.


I say, of contracts must little to my previous firstly, that the be respected, anyone to make a statuto1·y 30 days to inter·fere Secondly, statute book a provision which enables advances to be made without any notice being given of the transaction, and if it is to remain there ought to be some provi­ sion that further advances declared before some public authority.

there should not be on the must be claim within with any transaction.
in personal direction the Principal Mr. WOOLFORD : It is a matter of to me, disappointment but as a member of that the opportunity Ordinance has not been amendment, even may not meet the of those responsible for very gr·eat not as an individual the legal profession, for amending its most particular sought.

The proposed if it is carried into effect, aims and objects it and still leave untouched uncertainty, to a purchaser sale in the hope of getting lute title to property.

I have privately j!
I have privately j!

!timated to the Attorney-General that I I might almost say injustice, an execution the far graver who attends a free and abso­ attention The words " subject to '' are very the view that a following the Council's at the time of the sale.

( 4) as to the duties imposed upon a sale.


at execution subject a to a registered incum­ supports does not confer title free Both by expressed language it would important words, It has been urged, and I think it is the majority view, that the purchaser sale acquires property brance if one exists If there is any doubt about that inter­ p!

'etation I invite to sub-clause on the Registrar That sub-clause sale at execution from hypothec.
guage and inferential seem to be the better view that the property incumbrance or statutory claim.

A statutory claim can only arise if held by Govemment in respect of village we will say, or by the Town Coun­ cil in respect of taxes, or again by Government by way of Income Tax.

In any way you look at it the duty is cast on the Registrar after the sale to recognise claim there may be or a registered urge on Govemment poning this Bill and so affording the necessity of post­ an oppQr- incumbrance.
is sold subject a statutory lan­ rates, I therefore to any registered 293 J)eerl,q 'Regi,qfry Bill 21 APRIL, 1932.

-&concl Readiny 294 to and 1929, Mr. but like Mr. Justice Savary in saying and counsel on Ordinance, On the second reasons for appeal the as late as November, for the petitioner decision, to support the view I now I am correct view of both barristers opm1on being taken.
tunity of concerted It was in 1921, shortly after the passing of the original that the ques­ tion arose before the Full Court.

In that matter I appeared 11ought to get a judicial most Courts of Appeal in cases involving several important real issue was avoided.

occasion, Justice Savary had this very question before him, and after two days' argument by myself which nearly left me exhausted His Honour was unable, the other side were themselves unable, say what was the true state of the law.
I have since heard that was inclined urge, and I believe it was the majority and solicitors.

confer on the purchaser lute title and section retained amendment.

In other words, it is sought b,y this amendment that a purchaser property the statute title free from all registered That is not the view of many legal practi­ tioners, therefo1·e it is of the utmost importance respected be taken of clearing regard to the matter.
It has been suggested amendment Government enforce collection of their rates in that they should not incur the risk of buying property incum­ with registered brances.

is to If this amendment abso­ a free and 26, (3) and (4b), is the object of the that that view should be and that the opportunity should in the atmosphere should be introduced shall have conferred incumbrances.
that the proposed levied on under it will nullify to Govemment some right under to enable order on him of and the Municipality to of thei1· to sale is of capital including in business safe in was to ensul'e should not between the the propel'ty ?

That i;:; the state­ introduction of the mortgagee The Portuguese the opinions the present that what­ however the s,tle was ?
Are you going to allow such to take and not to be guided by to it with­ of several of the Ordinance ever happenPd, brought about, be sold to the detriment by the sale ipso jncto cancelling a mort­ gage.

That is what, hon.

Members must minds to.

Are you going .to address hinder the investment in the Colony by not making it absolutely to a person to leave money invested propel'ty dealings a dislocation place by ,tny unce1·tainty in the 111,w ?
Are you making it known to the public by legislation of this kind that it is absolutely certain that property brought free from incumbrance ment made by the Attomey-General, I a-sk Government what has merely been submitted out considering people, occupants the Bench.

I ask that a very long pause should intervene of the propo:sed ameudmeut aud the actual passage of the Bill.

I will give the Council an illustration has happened.

broking The woman's pl'Operty was levied on and sold fo1· $1,000.
I think I am con-ect in saying that tlH• person who bought was told that the property Whatever his state of mind was he paid the mortgage that there was it judicial not cancel the mortgage.

the mortgagec:s Mgued must be sati:sfied ceeds of sale under section what was the position property?
the property and believing applied the true state of the law and Mr. Justice Savary himself told me he recognised difficulties other practitioners themselves grave el'l'or amendment it one clause hinges on the othel' and one cannot be amended without the other.

must be considered how far The question some of you are going to deprive people, whom are abroad temporarily, of rights by law.

established out of the pro­ 26 ( 4 ).


But of the owner of the The owner thought that when was sold she only owed $140 that she had paid her debt to the subject.

to proceed as framed.

As I understand have also addressed It would be a with the proposed the in it.

Mr. De Freitas and At any rate put in a claim which they of what Pawn­ for $140.

claim, but the fact remains Company sued a woru1tn was mortgaged.

fo1· the surplus proceeds.


sale which did That is to discharge incumbrance The amendment will not be buying it a in some form or says "any in my view does not get rid of the clear and unequivocal lan­ guage in section 26, therefore a person who buys a property' free from the obligation registered other.

The amendment person" may, within 30 days from the date of sale, pay to the Registrar the statutory upon the sale shall be annulled.
understand if it were con­ the amendment giving fined to the owner of the property, his him 30 days within which to discharge obligation, but it is not confined to.

him and is extended claim and costs, and there­ I could to anybody.

The object the amount of Mr. DlAS: I agree with a great deal of 295 Deeds Registr1.J Bill 2l APRIL, 1932.

-Second Reading 296 to enable on the E-xisting claim is a safeguard who fails to attend a sale and to pay the debt and I suggest at a sale for a statutory debt.
The pro­ vision of 30 days to pay the amount of a statutory a mortgagee protect his interest that is an save his property.

state of improvement the law, though not an ideal -one by 27 is, any means.

The new section provision I venture and to say, a useful will not have the disastrous effect which the hon.

Member for Demerara River to what is known It relates anticipates.

as floating puts on a sounder mortgages, footing various to these mortgages, difficulties experienced.
transactions and removes which the Registra.1· certain has which occur any objections of the pro­ possess to consider which certain the pul'­ doubtful some other impor­ than this Bill provides I hope that those what has been said by the two hon.

Members who have spoken on this subject.

I agree with theµi in the sense that it is necessary tant amendments for.
Nevertheless, Members-will withdraw they have to the enactment posed law because it will sel've up certain pose of tightening questions which have arisen of late and help to abate the anxiety mortgagees at the present moment.

It should not be forgotten that the into existence Ordinance came intro­ ducing a new system.
As a l'esult of of lawyers waA agitation appointed should be mnde in this matter, but while that Committee did it certninly what was wanted and that has accounted for· some of the amendments since become necessary.

And there was some excuse for those amendments regard to the fact that the Ordinance was introducing originally in the Colony.

to consider what changes a Committee something having new its best which have question that people might for a mortgage of $5,000 when time it is a doubtful a.bout it.
was ve1·y recalcit.rant did not produce exactly whether it is his to encumber Mr. DIAS : Be that as it may, since for an individual with a liability mortgage suggested.

that is very urgently for a debt in the in Thern is a provision needed.

At a man who buys a p11operty sub­ on that mort­ are very con­ Mr. WOOLFORD: Clause 26 was framed in the Court of Policy and it was the advice of worded in this way against the legal members.
The acting Attorney General It has been suggested put their heads together for $5,000 where only $2,000 is involved.

It is true that these things are possible but one has to consider ratiorml property he knows that he has got only $2,000.

My answer is that it is not a sane transac­ tion and you will find people hesitating over passing manne1· this Bill the present whether ject to a mortgage is liable gage.
Lending companies they are cerned over the matter because is under the impression that have been ma<le.

I ven­ then amendments bought on which they have a mortgage the ture to think that the propostxl amend­ to carry out all the new owner is obliged ment in clause owner.

This obligations ment on the existing and one of the Bill settles providing purposes respect of the same property.

The activity improvement possibly there should be one sale only and it entitles panies.
With the aid of this section that to a free title if the sale is the purchaser doubt will no longer exist.

I understood for a statutory in to the hon.

Member· that case gets· a free title but with the must be sub­ say that a judicial reservation ject to registered incumbrances.

I sub­ 30 days of the date of sale, pay to the mit that the proviso takes that out.

The Registrar Ordinance into requires claim and costs, the whole of it and I hope that will soon be annulled.

come.
come.

I know that efforts are being made In respect to deal with the matter, buys subject that it would be useful theless and if there is a mortgage of the present the passing to the mortgage.

security afford greater to confer on the purchaser tioned in it which at the preiient JnOment the sense that l\,l'e in doubt, -would not be att11-ched it will serve is to stimulate in the purchase the lending And there is reason for it.
of all other sales the purchaser he buys subject Here it is intended of the original that question a free title in incumbrance state of the law in the amount of the statutory for two sales at execution 2 of the Bill is an improve­ claim.
The purchaser full investigation to agree to Bill so as to for New Amsterdam to matters men­ to the registered incumbrance, the registered that any pe1·son of properties to it jf he bought by this Bill is that but I plead never­ if a property of money by com­ the sale shall whereupon suggested may, within tmnsport and 297 /Jtjeds Registry Bill 21 APRIL, 1932.

-Sec<md Rea.cling · 2'98 and advisers We will go into the and r�tum here and say the Secretaries make no difference.
matter with of the Companies we agree or disagree expeditiously.

ments of legal Members.

The lawyers disagree decide.

and proceed more We have heard the argu­ and it iR difficult for laym.en to Mr. GONSALVES : I do not intend to by the Mem­ It seems to me that considered.

the ground covered 3 and 4 of the Bill might remain.

spoken.

I am in favour that the matter should traverse bers who have of the suggestion be further clauses Clause 3 seems very essential from my practice have been created.
it will get over a controvel'sial question and mortgagees with their security.

agree that the Bill might be proceeded with and the two clauses in view of their importance.

as I know that many difficulties If clause 4 would be more satii,fied Tn those respects is passed Tm: PRESlDENT: We have heard the I or to these amend­ I happened for $10,000.
might be passed I guaranteed was mortgaged should add1·ess But the arguments Company of which I was is not the best in the circum­ was put up for sale a second time effect to the local Insurance I could not find a purchaser of the Bill should be postponed brought for­ con­ thi�t further as the lust speaker it is dilticult Mr. WIGHT: I join in the plea for an of time to consider to find a purchaser.
framed the to meet the par­ to the Attorney-General and put their representa­ of law This is a question of law, legal arguments and, said, where lawyers disagree Gpvernment to decide.

Of course, must and Govern­ be guided by its legal adviser, that the law ment has no reason to believe framed to meet the position as it stands at present stances.

ward make it advisable sideration to a later date.


I think it is advisable it until next week but suggest postpone that in the meantime who are any persons interested in the matter and have any points to bring fonva1·d themselves the Registrar tions forward.

and must be decided as a question but the people immediately are the busine:,;s we also want as well.
If I may say so, I think this debate rather points to the necessity in this and advisability Colony for something Law Society of this kind amongst and to which Bills of this kind should be sent.

In my experience Council of this kind Bills we1·e refened there and one or two lay members-and are one or two lay lawyers in this Council-and legal points were threshed out before they came before the Council.

That procedure sion.


I do not know whether that is a procedure itself here but I think it would be useful.

to this debate and think the best course is to of this Bill.

_ The postpone to himself Attorney-General the that have right to reply to the speeches been made and an opportunity will be the Council given to Members to address apart from on the second reading further I will post­ the points they have raised.

pone di&cµssion extension ments.


I take the blame for the alterat-ion with made som<' time ago in connection mortgages.

for to be executor Dr. Nedd whose property to an Insurance Chairman.

for that property as no one would take over a mortgage the Company that they would not lose if they permit me to handle the matter.

The property for taxes and it failed It was then that the Registrar of the Ordinance section ticular case.
The amendments a far-reaching Companies, thing is in a state of chaos at the moment.

I am not going to deal with the legal aspect because am going to say that the a.mendment that respect is not an improvement on the present Ordinance, properties to existing and Demerara are largely and I suggest them to consult their advisers.

With regard to floating agreement Demerara gage on his property advance him $2,000 more, and he after­ wards returns mortgage Where do I stand ?

That is done almost daily.


People want to get credit and in that way raise the money.

There is no doubt that amendment is needed, urgently mortgages with the hon.

Member for River.

A man passes a mort­ then I because are still being sold subject mortgages.

Mutual Insurance interested that it be deferred which could deal with matters themselves.as elsewhere · the In cases to lawyers that has been done, but I in in this matter to enable I welcome the contributions Guiana Companies had a Law Committee.
and I appeal for time as the men and their opinion to the man who holds the helped in the discus­ consideration that will commend but ;i.nother w!lek woqld until som.e day ne�t we_eli:, of the Ordinance sum of $5,000.

for a further in the nature of a I am in entire The British concerned for $5,000, reserves might have a body 299 Dee,z.� Registry .Rill 21 APRIL, 1932.

Criminal Jnsticll Ri!l 300 OmMINAL JuS'l'ICE BILL.


of the last amendment Tm: ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Per­ haps I might add what I meutioned before of 011 the occasion the Deeds Registry It is Ordinance.

recognised that the system of conveyanc­ ing requires amendment and elucidation.

A good deal of preliminar y work has to be done and is being done and as soon as it is l'eady a Committee to deal with it.
will be a,ppointed THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Before I give notice that the Coum:il adjourns wlwn the Committee Justice of the amendment two new clauses.

Bill is rrached I shall move the of Bill by the insertion stage of the Criminal 'l'rrE PRESIDEN'l' po�tponeu : The <leb,Lte uutil uext week.

Bill i,; now on thi,; The Council ing clay :Lt 11 o'clock.

adjourned until the follow­