Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697795875389.pdf (Guyana)
39 .

"i'[embers Pre�ent LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

(Ji�estions 40 i-jEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

MINUTES.

Tuesday, 12th January, 1932.

The Council met pursuant ment, His Excellencv EDWARD DENHAM, K.C.M.G., dent, in the Chair.

to adjourn­ the Governor, SIR K.B.E., Presi­ PRESENT.

The Hon.

the Colonial C.Douglas:Jones, C.M.G.

Secretary, Mr.

The minutes of the meeting Council and circulated, held on the 7th January, were confirmed.
of the as printed THE COLONIAL SECRETARY (Mr. gave notice that at a C.Douglas-Jones) later stage he would move the suspension of the Standing "A Bill to authorise in Council fo1· the purpose of effecting economies in expenditure the remuneration Service Rules and Orders to enable the making of Orders of persons " to be read the first time.

with respect in the Public to The Hon.

the Attorney-General, Mr. Hector Josephs, tab.

), LL.B.

(Lond.).

K.C., B.A., LL.M.

(Can­ ORDER OF THE DAY.

The Hon.

T. 'l'.


Smellie (Nominated Unofficia.l Member).

The Hon.

P. James Kelly, M.B., Ch.

B., Surgeon-General.

RETIREMENT OF OFFICIALS.

Mr. CRANE, on behalf of Mr. ELEAZAR, asked the following ques­ tions:- The Hon.

F. DiaR (Nominated Unofficial Member).

Major the Hon.

W. Bain Gray, M.A., Ph.D.

(Edin.

), of Education.

B. Litt.

(Oxon), Director The Hon.

J. S. Dash, B.S.A., Director of Agriculture.

The Hon.

B. R. Wood, M.A., Dip.

For.

(Cantab.


), Conservator of Forests.

1.On what principle is Government retirinir persons the age of 60 yea.rs ?

from the Service who have not attained \!, How many such persons that their sen-ices have been served will be dispensed with notice with?

3, In what departments are they presently eni:iaged?

4.How many a.re natives how many from other Colonies ?

5.How many married ladies are now in the of the Colony and Why a.re they retained when lhere is Service?
a.long list of neecly ment.

spinsters awaiting employ.

The Hon.

S. H. Bayley, General THE COLONIAL SECRETARY replied Manager, ment.

Transport and Harbours Depart­ as follows :- 1.

Governwent bas adopted two principles for the retirement attained of officers who have not namely:- the age of 60 yea.rs, (a)In the case of an officer applying to The Hon.

W. A.

D'Andrnde, Comp­ troller of Customs.

Major the Hon.

J.

0.

Craig, M.E.I.C., of Public Works.

Director D.S.O., The Hon.


J. Mullin, A.I.M.lVI., F.S.I., Commissioner of Lands and Mines.

The Hon.

N. Cannon (Georgetown North).

The Hon.

A. V. Crane, LL.B.

(Lond.)

(Demerara River).

The Hon.

G. E. Anderson Member).

Unofficial (Nominated The Hon.

!VI.

B. G. Austin (Nominated U noflicial Member).

The Hon., F. J. SeaJord (Non1inated uhqffici�l Member).
compensation under the scheme retirement recently to ease the officer may be per­ by Government be allowed to retire for voluntary extended retrenchment mitted to retire without by the addition of any years to his service, provided that his post can be v bolished and that the a.mount of his pension together Jirovision required of his dnties of salary prevbusly saving on the Estimate the retirement of the officer.
drawn or definite is effected do not exceed :he a.mount by with any additional for the pel"formance tb) Where it is found that, a.s a.n econo· the officer concerned the post of any officer can is my mes.sure, be abolished, given 3 months notice and 3 months leave, and granted gratuity compensation se:rvice such pension for with of years or a.s he may Le eligible for abolition by addition of office, under the 4'1 (Jw11�tion., 12 JANUARY, 1932.

P. S. Jl,'conomy Bill 42 provisions Cap.


204. of the Pensions Ordinance, In the :·ase of Non-Commissioned Officers of the Police Force the is 55 ye11rs.

Reduc­ and Constabl£s n ge for retirement tions in the strength conseqnt>nt such retirements present.

2.

40 Ollicers, a.· In the following on are not being filled at Departments :­ (d) 33 buses.

(el 10 buses.

(fl 5 buses.

2.

The total revenue received for licences for 1931 arnountb to $19,402.75, 3.
The total snm collrcted as Fines through­ out the Colony in Motor Busrs pr9eecutions for the year 1931 is $2,516.16.

4.

The total mm 1,f rennue <01lected to No,·embt'lr, from January 1931-$14,492.95.

as duty 5.

The total sum of revenue as duty from January to �ovember, 1931- co\lectPd on Petrol 8143,370.

97.

Board.

Analyst's.

Agent-General Post Office.

Local Go\·ernment Gove1·nment .

Immigration Commiesaries.

rublic Works.

Lands and Mices.

Prisons.


Credit Co-operative werl' born in Briti�h Societies .

SUGAR (TEMPORAHY) ExcISE DuTY BILL.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I 4.

Thirty-one four in Bnrbadoe, and one at sea.

lour in the United Kingdom Guiana, move that "A Bill to impose fL temporary exci!

'le duty on �ugar manufactured sold in the Colonv" be read the third time, at present One is a fifth-class ladies and iu • 5.

There ore two married the Goveramt>nt Service.


.clerk in the Lands and Mines Department one is a sixth class clerk iii the Office.

General's and Attornt'ly­ in August, It wss decided 1930, that should a female officer marry while in the Service she upon to vacate her would be liable to be called This office and might be paid a gratuity.

did not apply to women already decision in the Service whose 01.Ees should they marry are to be judged on their merits.

Mr. SMELLIE seconded.


Question " That this Bill be now read a third time and pa8sed" put, and agreed to.

Bill read the third time.

NUMBER, ETC., OF MOTOR BUSES, Mr. CRANE, on behalf of Mr. SEERAM, asked the following questions for 1.How many Motor Buses :- are licensed hire 1 (a) Io the City of Georgetown.

(b)Between Georgetown (c)In New Amst.erdam.

and Rosignol.

Hi\'er, on the East and ou the Cor­ Bank, Berbice entyne Coast.

(d)On the East and West Banks of the Demerara River.
(e) On the West Coast of Oemerara.

(J)0 u the Esseq nebo Coast.

Rules PUBLIC SERVICE ECONOMY BILL.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I of the Standing economies move the suspension and Orders to enable " A Bill to authorise the making of Orders in Council for the purpose of effecting in expen­ diture with respect persons to l,e read in the Public Service" the first time.

In doing so I ask hon.

Members to su.y whether they will be pre­ pared to go on with the second reading of the Bill to-day.
There are very few Elected Members present and perhaps it to the remuneration of •would be more convenient to suspend pro­ cee.ding with the second reading.

2.

What i, the total sum of revenue by Government{or buses for the year 1931 ?

the issue of licences receirnd !or such 3.

What is the total sum collected throughout the Colony in Motor- ment as l<'illes Buses prosecutions for the yeor 1931?

by Go1•ern­ 4.

What is the total snm ot revenue collected Mr. SMELLIE seconded.
Question put, and agreed to.

as duty on Motor Cars and Motor Trucks for thtl year 1931 ?

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I move that the Bill be read the first time.

5.What is the total sum of revenue collected ns duty on Petrol for the year 1931 ?

Mr, SMELLIE seconded.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY replied Question put, and agreed to.

as follows: I.The number of Buses licensed are:­ Bill read the first time.

(a)15 buses.

(b) 38 buses.


( o)60 buses, THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: It woqlq be a. ma.tter of some convenience to 43 P. S. Ec{Y/1,omy Bill 12 JANUARY, 1932.

First &; Seconcl Reading 44 all its stagEs to-day, if this Bill could b,e passed but Govern­ to press it if hon.

furthH time to consider The effect of it is simply executive power to of by the reduction and pay we firms and Government througl1 ment does not desire Mfmbers require its provisions.
to give the Governor effect economies salaries on a scale.

Salaries know have been cut by business other institutions Public Servants salaries purpose that and I can explain, desire I make this statement moving the second reading it.

hon.

Members desire a-nd it is only right that should also have their extent.

The to a certain reduced of the Bill is to give power to do if hon.

Members to-day unless with no idea of it, the actual effect of the proposals.

and of as Governor Officers.


I should like cuts in the salaries of expressing my Go-vern­ Govemor of the Colony the rather invi­ dious task of ma.king of all Government to take this opportnnity appreciation ment of the spirit in which it has Officers.
I been taken by Government have not had any representation from Officers that this action is Government not necessary or that any exception be made, and I think that speaks very well indeed for the Public Service There has been no attempt between officers or to suggest officers should be given exemption certain the cut loyally is made.

This legislation actual salaries Colonial ing from 10 to 5 per cent.
on the rates of pny of officers, Public Service of officers, but, as the a cut rang­ pointed out, The Service and in the spirit in which it does not affect has accepted of the Colony.

that certain on the spirit S!lcretary grounds.

should shown.

on Mr. CRANE: Hon.

Membern are pre­ the Rules and pared to go on and suspend Standing all its stages to-day.

Orders to take the Bill through to differentiate nnd I congratulate the THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I move that the Bill be now read the second time.
Mr. SMELLIE seconded.

Question put, and agl'eed to.

Bill rea.d the 8econd time.

that these cuts between £600 and £300 by 7 ½ per from £300 to £150 by THE COLONIAL SECRETARY; It is over £600 per that all salaries by 10 per cent.

proposed annum should be reduced salaries cent.

and salaries 5 per cent.

It is estimated will give a sum in the neighbourhood which will be shown below the $78,000, line of revenue tional receipt.

be issued Bill.

It is not possible this sort to reduce salarie8 List.
Other salaries can be reduced.

Council as an eme1·gency An Order in Council or excep­ will by this a Bill.

of on the Civil under the powers enacted by a vote of this without of The Council resolved itself into Com­ mittee to consider clause.

the Bill clause by Clause 2-Power to make Orders-in­ Council for effecting Public Service.

economies in the Government in personal Mt·.

CRANE: I understand to make economies only intends emoluments.
It would appear that this clause is wide enough to cover any econo­ mies, and that the Governor within his legal rights also in respect which has the approval We know, however, to salaries.

would be to make economies it is only with respect of this Council.

of any other expenditure· (Mr. : The opernti THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL ve part of (2), which confers Hector Josephs) the clause is sub-clause on the Governor power in respect remuneration Service.
is limited Order-in-Council remuneration Sel'V{Qe, I venture to think that the to the entirely of persons in the Pu.Pli<: of persons in the Public of suspected on the rights Mr. CRANE: I congratulate Govem­ which has ment on copying legislation Parliam!lnt been enacted by the Imperial in England.
during the recent emergency When the Bill was published some of my colleagues that it was an encroachment of this House, but I think I have been them that it is this House able to convince Government to itself by Orders in Council.

carry out economies it is the same p°iece If I am not mistaken of legislation England, much to authorise make the economies and there it was not thought too the Government by Order in Council.

which has been enacted which authorises and privileges to .
in THE PRESIDENT: The hon.

Member is g,uite con·eQt, This Bill throws on the 45 .11-fotion 12 JANUARY, 1932.

./linnncial Com.

Repm·t -16 Mr. CRANE: I accept that rnling.

THE PRESIDENT: The hon.

Member The Council resumed.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I toove that the Standing be suspended the third time, to enable the Bill to be read Rules and Orders Mr. SMELLIE seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.


is prepared for the motion stt1nding in is responsible his name, Government to give an answer to the motion when it hears what is in the hon.

Member's mind and what the Council to discuss regard to the report.

If the hon.

Member thinks there are other Members who has not desire to postponing the slightest the discussion.

to take the motion to-morrow.


It will be posible Government to be present objection intends in THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I �uov{i that the Bill be read the third time.

Mr. SMELLIE seconded.

Question " That this Bill be now read a third time and passed" put, and a.greed to.

Bill read the third time.

Mr. CANNON: In view of what Your has said I have no alternative Excellency but to ask you to take the motion to-mor­ row.
I repeat last occassion that us something embarked on the it was understood Government would tell about the report before we upon the discussion.

is given to on what points Members THE PRESIDENT: I think it would if some indication be helpful Government desire to be enlightened, clear that the mover of the motion must explain required.

to-morrow.
to-morrow.

I sugg.est on what points an explanation It is obviously th11t for discussion is FINANCIAL COMMISSIONE The following motion stood in the name RS' REPORT, of the hon.

Member for Georgetown North:- (1)THAT the Council consider and discnss Commissioners.

the Repor� of the Financial (2)That Government should indicate what further steps, if any, it is pro· Council posed to take to give effect Report.
Uommiseioners' to the Financial to occasions THE COLONIAL �ECRETARY: I I am in in for a reply to the debate are in regard to the recommen­ because thev have been stated and dealt with.

To col­ in ,md put them forward statement would not be very but I do not think it would take Hon.

very much furthel'.

might point out the difficulty being responsible On various on this question.
indications have been given in Council in regard to matters in the report which have been raised lect those details 11 form!Ll difficult, the Council Members must know what Government's intentions dations either in speeches before any reply can be given it is neces­ the lines on which it is sary to know exactly to de.Ll with the subject.

·when we proposed to deal with a it is possible have that general manner.
reply in an adeqmLte to make it quite clear that there is no not to on the part of Government intention give hon.

Members the fullest but it ii, only fair that the hon.

Member should endPaVOut' from Govern ment the inform[ttion want to know.

Elected Members o'r reports, therefore to extract I want information, Mr. CANNON: When I tabled this motion it was understood would be the clay for its discussion.

that vVednesday THE PRESIDENT: The Council is to postpone quite willing it.
willing message of business in the agenda.

I am to-day this motion Mr. CANNON: I wish to make an a telephone I received to do so.

I see no harm, saying that in view of the to go on with it but it is not whether my colleagues, explanation.

yesterday scarcity would be included perfectly a question having been aware of what I had agreed to, are prepared if Goverm:ilent the second portion of the motion, in that being proceeded colleagues to be satisfied in the papers.
I think it was understood that Government and let us know exactly this matter before sion.

I understood to curtail who are not here will have with what they read would take the initiative how it stood in that was the intention we proceed to discus­ is going to take tiny part in discussion, with, ,1nd my Mr. CANNON : Speaking for myself if Government would only make a pronou,nGe- ,47 Financial Com.

Repoi·t 12 JANUARY, 1932.


Income Tax Bill 48 of State is going to refer to the recom­ Commissioners, mendation of the Financial but it does not necessarily follow Govemment say more than that.

Still that is some indication that might help the discussion.

will accept it.

We cannot that this of bringing period over a very considerable that it might be of the report into the minds of a ment that it has no intention particular paragraphs operation it would relieve number of us.
\Vhat we feel is that this report might be so elastic extended of time and while Government not disposed graph it might in the very near future say a particular the Commissioners and Government posed to deal with it.

I think it would simplify immensely pronouncement if Government such as that.

would make a by pro­ pa1·a­ to act on any particular matter was rncommended to-day is matters and help the situation INCOME TAX BILL.
'l'Irn PRESIDENT: I think it is well on the 'l'hese of State for of are now Until a reply is received Govem­ Treasury.

a reply from the Secretary to let hon.

Members know what is the of the rest of the business position of the The Income Tax Bill has passed Council.

and the suggestions its second l'eading and Nominated Nembers Elected further consideration.
receiving suggestions cannot be di�posed nacessarily of b,1 the local Govemment without to the Secretary reference discussion with the Imperial I am awaiting of State to representations made by tele­ gram with regard to the recommendatiorrn of a Committee of the Council subject.

ment is not in a position the Bill or any attendant with the balanc­ in connection might 11rise ing of the Budget.
I expect a reply at ,1ny moment but when that reply does come it will necessarily time to make auy amendments to be or to deal with the procedure followed.

purpose better if we fix a day deti­ nitdy to consider Tut•sday to be in a position only point of difficulty attendant immediate the Council Tuesday, sure hon.

Members will appreciate the circumstances.

to do so then.

The is in respect which may require If I have to ask than next the matter.
I suggest next as I am quite certain legislation introduction.

to attend earlier should it become necessary, to proceed with that It would perhaps serve the that may be necessary legislation take a little I am of :Mr. CANNON: Before the adjournment to post­ I wish to ask Your Excellency pone discussion of my motion until the Income Tax Bill ha� been dealt with.

The Council 19th January, January, instead.


but resumed adjourned until Tuesday, 22nd on Friday, THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: It is a question of the method whil:11 the hon.

Member wishes to play this game and the method which Government wishes to play it.

The hon.

Member is inviting Govern­ ment to put up bogeys for the Electives to knock down and I desire hon.

Members to put up bogeys for Government to knock down.

It is a question should play the game.


The ordinary of the game, if reduced to Parliamentary procedure, are for the hon.

Member to put up bogeys for Government down.

I suggest that that be clone.

to knock of how we rules Mr. CANNON: I was quite willing do that but when I was induced to paragraph procedure.

2 I thought that would he the to insert THE PRESIDENT: I think we have if of Commissioners given the hon.

Member some !luggestions with regard to the line he should pursue.
It would save the time of the Council hon.

Members would look at the 1·eport the Financial from three points of view, viz., recommendations with how regard to expenditure and revenue, much has been done on that and how much remains With dations has regard to the first three Government to the policy it intends already indicated pursue.

In regard to the other portion there are such points, reduction cies occur.
That cannot possibly with until vaccancies vacancies be dealt occur and when those occur no doubt the Secreta1·y with regard to the future.

to be done, and recommen­ in salaries and for instance, as posts when vacan­