Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698928565939.pdf (South Africa)
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 1 WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ____ The House met at 10:00 The House Chairperson, Mr M L D Ntombela took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS The House Chairperson (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, in the interest of safety for all present in the Chamber, please keep your masks on and sit in your designated area.
DEBATE ON YOUTH DAY PROMOTING SUSTAINABLE LIVELIHOODS AND RESILIENCE OF YOUNG PEOPLE IN SOUTH AFRICA FOR A BETTER TOMORROW Mr S M KULA: Hon House Chairperson, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon Members of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 2 Parliament, ladies and gentlemen, I greet you all.

Youth as a structure in transit has always been a critical body of opinion.

They have shared many revolutions in Africa and in parts of the world.
Our country in South Africa is not different.

Every time I speak on the question of youth I am reminded of the words of the former President of the ANC, Oliver Reginald Tambo.

They always echo in my mind and heart that: A country, a movement, a person that does not value its youth and children, does not value its future.

Hence we have always maintained and took cognisance of the fact that we as young people are the future and no one can stop us.
In his foreword on the National Youth Development Agency Policy Framework, former Minister in the Presidency Dr Essop Goolam Pahad, correctly captures the spirit of what drove young people on that fateful morning of June 16 1976.

He writes that: The claim of youth to a bright future is unquestionable.

Our youth have, in our history of blood and effort, borne much of the brunt of struggle.
For many years under apartheid they were, quite literally and deliberately, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 3 deprived of a future by a system, which kept all blacks in bondage in the country of their birth.

For young people, it meant enormous deprivation just at the very time when people should expect to look forward to a full life.

The educational system was specifically designed to keep blacks as hewers of wood and drawers of water.
The ghettoes of apartheid, in towns and cities but also in alienated, bogus state lets called Bantustans, kept blacks in conditions, which were depressing and hopeless.

Blacks' medical needs were neglected by the state, which meant many youths grew up vastly disadvantaged.

As youths emerged from the meagre training and education that was available, they were prohibited from pursuing many avenues of employment reserved for whites.

They grew into a society, which was in the iron grip of repression.
They knew arrest, torture, death itself.

This is what broke the camel’s back and made young people to stand up and said enough is enough.

Speaker, let me take this opportunity to pay homage to the 1976 generation.

IsiXhosa: Abahlahli bendlela.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 4 English: As the current generation of youth, we owe you our loyalty for your colossal efforts to dismantle a brutal apartheid system.

South Africa is a better place than it was in 1976.
Thanks to the contribution of our forebears and the ANC-led government.

Under apartheid government young people lived in a society where they experienced arrest, torture and even death itself.

Today, young people live in a democratic and prospering society.

I want to take this opportunity to report to the 1976 generation as well as preceding and succeeding generation of fruit that in our country today we have abolished Afrikaans as the medium of instruction in our schools.
We have repealed the Bantu Education Act which prevented the young people from reaching their true potential.

We are professionalising the early childhood development training that there is feeding scheme in both primary and secondary school.

That young people have got access to the institutions of higher learning.

Our youth today has got jobs that in the past were preserved for white people.

We have young people in mining, construction, ICT, agriculture and manufacturing.
Young people are thriving in sports, arts, culture and entertainment.

We UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 5 understand fully well that more still needs to be done to tap into the untapped potential of many of our youth.

IsiXhosa: Sazi kakuhle ukuba kuse kude engqinibeni kodwa inyaniso emsulwa yeyokuba inkqubela ngumzamo yona.
English: We, in the ANC understand that whilst progress has been made on many fronts to improve the quality of lives of young people and other groups, more still needs to be done to create a better life for all that was promised to our people in 1994.

Our Strategy and Tactic document correctly captures this when it assessed that: The national democratic society constitutes the ideal state we aspire towards the ANC and the broad democratic movement.
It should thus not be confused with the tactical positions that the liberation movement may adopt from time to time, taking into account the balance of forces within our country and abroad.

Circumstances in which we conduct social transformation will change at all times and in the process of effecting such transformation there will be successes and setbacks.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 6 As the movement we are sparing no strength nor courage to service the youth of this country.

It is only those who make an attempt who at times experience failure unlike the many prophets of doom in this House who claim perfection out of inactivity.

The only thing that they know is to criticise.


The erstwhile leadership of the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, under the capable leadership of my brother, friend and comrade Sifiso John Mtsweni was punching above its weight in terms of addressing the challenges of the youth development.

Many young people have been assisted to either start of grow their businesses.

The NYDA has opened many regional offices across the country to make it easier for young people to access the agency.
The new NYDA with the capable young women at the helm in the form of the executive chair and executive deputy chair demonstrates our government’s confidence in the young women of our country.

The National Youth Development Policy Framework, amongst others recognises that the challenge of the sustainable youth development and the sound wellbeing of the youth are the ability to meet the many basic needs of the present generation and to improve their quality of life.
Many young African people with no secondary education constitutes the majority of the economically inactive UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 7 population.

This is a breeding ground of gangsterism and substance abuse in the form of matompo and nyaope, teenage pregnancy, violent crimes and the harbour for absent fathers or negligent mothers.

This needs to be addressed through a skills revolution.
These young people need to be equipped with relevant skills that are fit for the economy.

IsiXhosa: Ukuhlala kwabo ezikoneni zezitalato nasecaleni kweevenkile zoo ... English: ... My friend, is not going to help.

Many of them need to be assisted by being taken to the proper rehabilitation facilities to curtail the problem of substance abuse.

The ANC- led government remains committed to improving the education system of this country in light of the changing conditions.
At the recent 54th ANC National Conference we resolve that all children of South Africa must get equal opportunities in terms of infrastructure in all the schools if we want to maximise the opportunities presented by the Fourth Industrial Revolution.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 8 Let us continue to appreciate the role played by the SA Youth Council at National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac.
During the recent local government elections, the ANC demonstrated beyond all and sundry that it takes young people seriously over any other party in this House.

This they did not do it by only setting a requirement of 30% youth representation on their list but with the deployment of many young mayors, speakers, chief whips and MECs, to add on the list of the young people that are currently serving as Ministers, Deputy Ministers, MPs and MPLs [Applause.]
IsiXhosa: Yinyaniso emsulwa kaThixo ukuba ... English: ... the ANC takes the youth very seriously.

There is a gradual introduction of youth in the administration and business.

It is hard to imagine that we would be where we are as the nation without the activism of the youth.

Their bravery in the light of the monster before them to fight their rights.
How can we use this unflinching courage to inspire the youth of today to confront the many social ills, including the elephant in the room that is a ticking bomb?

The issue of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 9 unemployment, not forgetting the lack of adequate skills amongst the youth that is keen in driving our economy.

House Chairperson, we must decry the tendency to use June 16 as the opportunity for the youth to binge.
That day is not designed that young people must drink because we are spitting on the legacy of the 1976 generation.

We must encourage lectures, symposiums and dialogue among the youth, government, business and civil society on how to resolve the challenges confronting young people today.

We must use June 16 to highlight ... IsiXhosa: ... amakhono ahlukileyo olutsha lwaseMzantsi Afrika ... English: ... be it in sports, arts and entertainment.
We must encourage government, municipalities, churches and business establishments to open public buildings and their premises for free so that young people can showcase their talents on this day.

House Chairperson, let me define thus to this Parliament the kind of South Africa young people want to live.

We want to live in a country where we are free of crime.
We want to live in a country where there are employment and economic UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 10 opportunities.

We want to live in a country where young people can realise their true potential without any hindrance.

Our government and society should be cognisant that young people live according to how Amílcar Cabral characterised our approach to the revolution that: Always bear in mind that the people are not fighting for ideas, for the things in anyone’s head.
They are fighting to win material benefits, to live better and in peace, to see their lives go forward, to guarantee the future of their children.
Hence we as the young people we fully identify with the lyrics of the popular Amapiano song, Adiwele by Kabza De Small: IsiXhosa: Asihlaseleni solwel’impilo emnandi Kunini sabawela kuyoze kufik’elakusasa Angeke bayivale yonk’iminyango Nam’ayangibuz’amathou English: To young people ... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 11 IsiXhosa: ... bangeneni ngendlovu ngoko nangoko, i-ANC iwavulile amasango.
Yingilosi la empilweni yam Ayi malume kukhulu ok’zayo Ngiba ngena ngenduku same time Umsholozi uvulile amasango Yingilosi la empilweni yam Ayi malume kukhulu ok’zayo English: Happy Youth Day to all young people of our country.

[Applause.]

In closing House Chairperson, we want to address what happened last week.

We have got a responsibility as Members of Parliament to always carry ourselves in dignity.

People look to this Parliament for solutions that they are faced with.

Those who are coming ...


[Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Your time has expired wena.

Your time has expired.

You are done talking, go and sit down.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, can I draw your attention please?

In front of me there is a clock in UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 12 very big numbers.

I cannot make any excuse that I am not seeing it or I made a mistake.

It is right in front of me.

So, hon Kula had all the time on his side.


When the hecklings started happening he was left with quite a number of seconds and I would not do any favour or anyone a favour for that matter.

So please, just give me that chance.

Give me a chance to check my time.

It is not like somebody is being done a favour here.

So, let us agree on that but at the same time I would not object to anyone from you raising an objection about that.

Then I will explain what happens.

Mr L MPHITHI: Thank you hon House Chair.


As we draw closer to Youth Day, I would like to take this moment to honour an incredible leader, who tragically lost his life on 12 June 2022 by the name of Lutho Jett Sokudela.

This young man represented all that was right in this country, a passion for his community.
A commitment to fight on behalf of the youth of South Africa and a dedicated public servant who served the residents of Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality and Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality with honour.

At the time of his untimely passing, he was to be sworn in as a councillor in his hometown of Buffalo City.
In an interview UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 13 prior to what was going to be his swearing in, as a councillor, he said the following: As a public servant, you must learn to be humble, humble to the people that you are serving, humble to the people who were serving with and humbled to the officials and administrators.

I thought this would be important to echo these words, so that we all may draw from them and be inspired by the type of leader Lutho was.
To his family we thank them.

for sharing Lutho with us and we pray for all of you during this time.

To his friends and colleagues in the DA in the Eastern Cape and across the country, we send our deepest condolences.

IsiXhosa: Hamba ngoxolo ... English: ... young leader of our generation.

IsiXhosa: Hamba ngoxolo Zizi ... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 14 English: ... we will echo your words for many years to come.
Hon Chair today I am not going to lament about the failure of the ANC.

We all know that the ANC is destroying South Africa.

We all know that we are facing perhaps the most difficult times of lives as young people ... [Inaudible] ... that each and every year the lives of young people in this country get worse and worse IsiXhosa: Kudala sisokola kweli lizwe phantsi kwe ANC.
English: My question now is, for how long will we ... [Inaudible] ... the government ... [Inaudible] ... unemployment amongst young people rocketed to the highest levels it has ever been.

A government that has failed to eradicate ...

[Inaudible.]

A government that has failed small businesses with bureaucratic legislation.

A government that has been unable to grow the economy.

A government that quite frankly is making young people consider leaving the country to find a better life.
As the previous speaker said, the former National Youth Development Agency, NYDA Chairperson was his friend and UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 15 comrade, and he still does not see the problem with that statement.

He could not even mention one success in the past 10 years that the ANC government has made, in succeeding the young people of this country.

Instead, he reads as a song just to show how politically vacant the ANC is.

answer is.
answer is.

To what end will we continue with the ANC?

Today I would rather talk about how we as the youth can turn the situation around.

I believe that the power to turn this around is in our hands as young people.

We can propose a reimagined society of opportunity and reclaim our democracy.

We can fix it and find a new way at the same time.

We can bring a democratic consensus and take all people, in which I mean, all South Africans to an authentic solution-driven people-centred society.
There must be a time where graduates are not sitting at home without jobs.

An economy that will serve all young people.

Functioning institutions of higher learning that understand that all we have is our dreams and nothing else.

It is clear that the ANC is not up to task to do this.
Fellow young people, young leaders, young entrepreneurs, artists, influencers, young people in corporate, unemployed youth; youth considering leaving the country, ... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 16 IsiXhosa: ... abantu abatsha ezilalini ... English: ... we can turn this around.

It starts with removing the ANC.

IsiXhosa: Enye nenye siza kuyibona phambili.


English: We are incredibly proud of the great work that is being done by DA mayors across the country, who are putting young people at the centre of their agenda and making sure that they capacitate the future of this country for tomorrow.

These DA- led coalition governments are not telling young people to ...Interjections] ... what young people fought.

Thank you very much.


Ms N N CHIRWA: Greetings to Commander in Chief of the EFF Julius Sello Malema all the officials, commissars, grand forces and sympathisers of the only movement that cares about the wellbeing of young people in this country today.

Today, we commemorate and remember the relentless and monumental youth of 1976 who at the height ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 17 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D NTOMBELA): Please do not drown the speaker.

Give her a chance to speak, please.

IsiXhosa: ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILEYO: Ubazelaphi abantu bango-1976 yena?
Ms N N CHIRWA: Today we remember the relentless and monumental youth of 1976, who at the height of the display of hate and oppression against black people, took to the streets to remind the apartheid government that guns, political power, and stolen economic ... [Inaudible] ... meant nothing when faced with the will and determination of young people.
This group of young people who fought the apartheid government to death, will forever be noted as fundamental to the tenets of what we deem as resilience, determination, sacrifice, black power and the overcoming of white dominance in Afrikanerdom.

Just because the apartheid government was faced with unarmed 13-year old ...[Inaudible] ... in the air, the apartheid government responded with guns and mass massacre of over 170 young people, exposing the true weakness and fragility of white supremacy.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 18 This is precisely what should encourage the youth of today to not ... [Inaudible] ...to the ANC government.

All the power, stolen monies, and guns they use to murder those who fight the status quo, will eventually mean absolutely nothing when confronted by the will and determination of young people.

We remind the youth of today that, our quest for true liberty for economic freedom in our lifetime is still underway.
It is by design that we are poor.

It is intentional that you are unemployed.

It is not a coincidence that are communities and infested with crime and violence.

It is not by mistake that we have been overcome by drugs.

We are led by ANC mafias who truly benefit when we are downtrodden, uneducated, poor, unemployed, raped, murdered, intoxicated, and riddled with preventable illnesses.

The ANC government did not remember that we have a youth when they looted R500 billion during a pandemic.
They do not remember that we are youth when we are sexually violated and killed as women and gay people and ... [Inaudible] ... turned away at police stations when we seek refuge.

They do not remember that we are youth when the ...[Inaudible] ...gets money and put it in their mattress when we die of depression and actual hunger.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 19 They don’t remember that we are youth when they fail to assist young mothers at maintenance courts, when we are desperate for justice.

They don’t remember that we are youth when we ask our mines for a mere R1 000 raise, while chief executive officers, CEOs old of the very same mines earn hundreds of millions.

They don’t remember that we are youth in our suffering.
But somehow, we must remember that they are elders when you push back against their corruption, greed and hunger for power.

Young people continue being turned away from universities because they are poor.

Sisipho and Sesethu, Minister Blade Nzimande blue ticked our plea to allow you to continue at the University of Cape Town, UCT because you’re deserving.

None of the evidence showing a poverty will ever make him and the rest of this political ...[Inaudible] ... put young people first in the country.
Young women I Atteridgeville, Mamelodi, Soshanguve, Mabopane, Hammanskraal, Ga-Rankuwa, ... ANC ... will continue asking you for sex in exchange for a job to pick up papers on the streets, and then turn around and ask you to respect them because their elders.

There is truly no law that the ANC government has not visited to humiliate to the youth of this country.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 20 However, the time to wallow around and massage the feelings of the regime that oversees our oppression has come to an end.

The immunity of choice to be for or against politics has truly expired.

As young people we no longer have the liberty to give respect to criminals, just because they are 70 years old.

We respect elders with integrity, not gangsters.


There are heaps of solutions that visit this House through the EFF to bring an end to the crisis of unemployment, violence landlessness and exploitation of workers.

It is simply not a priority for the government of the day.

As the EFF, we will continue fighting for lower data rates.

Access to information is a human right.

We will continue calling for an end to outsourcing and that workers be insourced in all state institutions.
For mines, mineral work and other strategic sectors of the economy to be nationalised.

For the creation of multiple state-owned banks in various industries.

We will continue to demand and fight for the protection and promotion of infant industries and informal traders.

For free education and domestic industrialisation.

For school to be compulsory from early childhood development when a child is three years old, and not just from Grade 1.
For every school to have a social worker to deal with dropout challenges.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 21 It is alive that pupils drop out because of laziness.

They do so because poverty is stifling and has reverberating effect on the youth.

These matters are as personal as it can be for the youth of today.
The youth of today should rise up with every chance they get, to show these gangsters wherever they show their face that, they have truly messed with the wrong generation.

Young people must not be scared.

We will outlive all of them one by one and combined, and we must defend our official from the African national criminals led by the money launderer.

Thank you Chairperson.

Mr S S ZONDO: Hon House Chair, the IFP congratulates the youth who sacrificed their lives during the Soweto uprising in 1976.
They acted fearlessly in pursuit of their value and dignity, and fought for equality and the right for quality education under the brutal and inhumane apartheid regime.

The youth who acted against such an unjust government some 46 years ago, show us the importance and power that the youth yield.

Their selfless act charted the way for the true inspiration and transition into a democratic South Africa, when the rest of world expected a civil war.
This year is unlike the years before, with regard to celebrations, as the country is finding UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 22 itself near economic collapse and youth unemployment is at its highest ever.

Empowerment of young people goes beyond ...

[Inaudible.]

... rally, speeches and debates.

It requires us to legislate, to act in defence and promoting of our youth agenda.
It is why the IFP is taking up the issue through our Private Member’s Bill, the Employment Service Amendment Bill.

Real and meaningfully transformation can only take place where we have secure jobs for all our young people.

We are putting South Africa first.

We are protecting our youth and people against the current unjust unemployment that is driven by the illegal occupation of jobs by undocumented foreign nationals.
We call on this House to do the same, beyond debate and Youth Month, but in all government department programmes.

Let us not beat around the bush here, because of the harshest of realities faced by millions of young people.

Our society remains deeply unequal and when the poor, rural black child cannot access the same opportunity as his or her urban counterpart, then we cannot speak of progress.
When young people are stuck without access to internet, computers, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 23 incubator hubs for entrepreneurship, we cannot speak of great strides that we are making.

The aim remains, we must protect our youth and their future.

We must ensure that they have access to jobs.

Their energy is not prescribed for a lifetime of poverty.
I say to all people of our country that through the principle of self-help and self-reliance, we can lift ourselves up out of poverty and unemployment through solidarity and by working together.

If we act with the spirit of Ubuntu, we can achieve a goal of rebuilding our country and rewriting the reality of our youth into a positive one.

Each one must teach one.

We are to live a better tomorrow and create a sustainable livelihood.
IsiZulu: Somlomo, ngiyafisa ukudlula ukuthi abantu abadala lapha ePhalamende abangasibuzi uma sikhuluma ngezindaba zentsha basibuze ukuthi sasikuphi ngowe-1976 ngoba sikhuluma ngekusasa lethu la.

Sikhuluma ngekusasa lethu nekusasa lezingane zethu okufanele silakhe futhi silivikele ukuze libe ikusasa elingcono futhi eliqhakazile.

Ikusasa lalelizwe lilele kubantu abasha ... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 24 English: ... and we cannot deny that.
IsiZulu: Abantu abadala uma sebehluleka ukubeka izimpilo zabantu abasha eqopheleni elifanele kufanele baqhele kungene thina ukuze sikwazi ukulungiselela ikusasa lethu nekusasa lalelizwe silibeke endaweni efanele.

English: I thank you.

Afrikaans: Me T BREEDT: Voorsitter, ... English: ... every year brings with yet another Youth Month, another Youth Day, another youth debate, another Youth Parliament and another youth theme, to set the illusion that the government of South Africa cares about its youth.
In short, another talk shop to pacify the consciousness of the political elite into thinking they really care about the youth of South Africa.

Afrikaans: UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 25 Dis die ou retoriek waaraan ons gewoond is.

Ons gaan vandag die geykte vertellings van 1976 hoor, maar niks nuuts oor die huidige jeug van Suid-Afrika nie.

Die agb Khawula het reeds die afbrekende retoriek van ’n ou ANC ...[Onhoorbaar.]

... begin.
... begin.

Ons gaan dalk hoor oor hoe die jeug vandag dankbaar moet wees vir waar hul vandag is en ons gaan hoor van spookasem-dromery van die regerende party, wat net drome gaan bly.

Die realiteit van Suid-Afrikaanse jeug is egter nie so rooskleurig soos wat die ANC ons vandag wil laat glo nie.

Die statistiek is skrikwekkend.

English: The youth unemployment rate in South Africa average 53,8% from 2013 to 2021, reaching an all-time high of 66,5% in the third quarter of last year.
The youth unemployment rate in South Africa is expected to be 66,7% by the end of this quarter, according to Trading Economics’ expectations.

In the long term, the South African youth unemployment rate is projected to trend around 68% in 2023.

Afrikaans: UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 26 Jeugwerkloosheid is ongelukkig nie die enigste donker prentjie wat vir die jeug geskets word nie.
English: In South Africa, youth violence has a long history and is experienced by a significant portion of the country’s youth.

The year 2020’s latest crime stats that have been released highlighted this unfortunate escalation in crime against women, children and youth.

In February, Times Live already published the heading with regard to crimes statistic – Children under siege.

What would we call the current statistics?


Increases reports of children and women being murdered have shot up by 37,2 and 70,5% respectively.

The Ukraine-Russia crisis has seen less casualties than South Africa during the exact same period.

The difference – we are not in a war.

Afrikaans: Hierdie is nie eens om van die haaglike realiteit van kinders van bendgeteisterde gebiede soos die van die Kaapse Vlakte en Skiereiland te noem nie.
Die wêreld het sy asem opgehou oor UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 27 die skoolskietery in Texas in die VSA, maar niemand het ’n oog geknip of ’n woord gerep dat op daardie selfde dag, die polisie in die Wes-Kaap, bendegeweld en skietery probeer die hok slaan het, en mense in hegtenis geneem het vir die vorige week se noodlottige skietery nie.
Wat maak hierdie sinnelose moorde wat in die meeste gevalle onskuldige slagoffers, wat op die verkeerde tyd op die verkeerde plek was, anders en minder nuuswaardig?

Daily Maverick beskryf hierdie bendegeweld as “amounting massacre”.

Boonop hierdie syfers is daar ’n groeiende tendens van jeug wat hul aan misdaad skuldig maak.

Die Departement vn Korrektiewe Dienste het Maandag gesê dat hulle bekommerd is oor die toename in die jeug wat betrokke raak in misdaad.
Daar is tans meer as 42 000 jeugmisdadigers in die land se tronke.

Hierdie is net ’n paar skokkende statistieke wat die realiteit om ’n jong mens in Suid-Afrika te wees, verteenwoordig.

En as ek alles moet vertel, dan gaan ons dit nie kan opnoem nie.
Ons gaan nie Jeugdag kan vier nie, maar ons sal ’n begrafnis hou en huil oor wat Jeugdag kon wees, wat dit sou wees, as die ANC UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 28 nie in beheer was nie, en as die verlede nie belangriker as die hede is nie.

Van Coke Kartel sing ’n liedjie: Verskoon my hierdie siniese stemtoon Daar is iets wat my al lank al pla Ek kan nie my vinger daarop sit nie.

En hulle vra later, wat het van ons geword?

Ek kan my vinger daarop sit.

Dis die ANC.


Dit is wat met ons gebeur het en onshet niks anders as die ... [Tyd verstreke.]

... in die ANC se magsig geword nie.

Dankie.

Ms M E SUKERS: Hon House Chairperson, our greatest asset in this country is not the minerals in our soil, but the youth of our nation.

Children are heritage from the Lord, offspring, a reward from Him.

Like arrows in the hands of the warrior, are children born in one’s youth.
The Jewish writer and Psalmist, King David, recognises the potency of youth and the promise it holds for the future.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 29 For the purposes of this debate, the ACDP wishes to focus on key drivers and barrier to build resilience and sustainability.

The biggest barrier is the lack of coherence in initiatives at the community level.

Reaching the youth on 365-day basis should become our biggest commitment to drive change that will be sustainable.
In my constituency, that includes the rural Karoo, it is evident that we suffer from a lack of creativity and coherence to ensure that we reach young people in their environment.

Our best efforts are wasted when there is no coherence in the programmes we drive at local, provincial and national levels.

I come from recruitment and if you want to be successful in your aims, you must have a targeted approach and a well- defined plan.

We have none.
We have none.

We speak past each other, as we are doing this morning, as key role players that are critical linkages in the chain to reach the youth.

As I said yesterday, we lack a national consensus to focus on the critical social issues that hamper our nation.

Young people are our biggest and most valuable asset.
Lavender Hill and Beaufort West are vastly different communities with one commonality - our youth drop-out rate at late primary and UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 30 early high school years.

When you drive through the Karoo, Beaufort West, Victoria West, you find young people standing at garages begging for food or money.

The best time of their lives is wasted.

We are losing the youth at the most critical stage of their development.

What must we do?
What must we do?

This country does not lack money; it lacks creative focus.

We must create catchment areas and programmes for youth that dropped out from school, link the youth to a programme in his immediate environment, reduce the days that the child or a young person is out of learning or development.

The task, C S Lewis says, of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles, but to irrigate deserts.
Let us irrigate the deserts at the Cape Flats, the Central Karoo with a central and laser-sharp focus to reach young people.

Let me say, on the next 16 June, break up Parliament and have it in our communities, in Lavender Hill, in the Karoo, in the rural areas and speak to our young people, not to each other.

Thank you.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Thank you, House Chair, we regarded 1994 as the turning point in the emancipation of the oppressed.
However, the youth of our country are still experiencing a UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 31 deal of oppression from a black-led government through challenges such as poverty, unemployment, violence, inequality and education.

It is like a repetition of injustices.

I supposed its generation has its own struggles but here in South Africa, young people are subjected to high levels of poverty, unemployment and inequality.
In fact, as it stands, youth unemployment has reached alarming proportions as it is at almost 70%.

The government has failed dismally to prioritise youth employment.

The labour market as we know, does not create enough job opportunities.

We need a kind of government that will prioritise job creation by reopening closed firms to strengthen local production and to ensure that we support the programme such as the black industrialist programme.
Government must encourage small businesses and support start- ups to create more jobs for young people.

Young people, as we know, are still oppressed through the education system which provides less skills and training thereby creating the skills gap that we know exist in the labour market.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 32 We know the challenges that are also faced by the so-called historical black institutions, which lack the necessary resources to be able to attend to the needs of young people who resides in those areas.

Such inequalities are not addressed by the Department of Education as young people are most affected by it in instances such as one that have to do with lack of funding, accommodation and a question of student debt has not been resolved.
A typical example of this education inequality is a meeting that was held between the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training, The Department of Higher Education and Training, the Council for Higher Education of Walter Sisulu and student representative council to receive a full account on questioned accreditations, status of five qualifications offered by Walter Sisulu University, WSU, it was confirmed that there were 221 students who graduated from illegitimate programme between last year and this year.
Currently, there are 166 students registered in this programme in this academic year.

This shows that black young people continue to face challenges imposed by institutions of higher learning.

In addition to these challenges, young people suffer from gender-based violence more especially against women and children in this UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 33 country.

Government is moving very slow to try and root out this problem.
It is time for us to demonstrate and put these multiple crises at the centre of national dialogue.

Youth unemployment, violence against women and children, and lack of quality education must be addressed as issues of national importance.

Young people deserve better.

Government must stop being an oppressor in a democratic system.

I thank you, House Chair.

Mr V ZUNGULA: Thank you, House Chairperson, the youth is the future of this country.
However, there is no future for the youth if they country does not have a future.

There is no future when 67% of the youths are unemployed.

Almost 50% of the country is dependent on social grant and 68 people are murdered daily.

There is no future when the so- called leaders of our country are money launderers, kidnap and torture people, evade taxes, violate immigration laws, and unethical leaders who hide millions of US dollars in their mattresses.
The only people we know, who holds such high volumes of US dollars in cash are Central Intelligence Agency, CIA, agents and spies.

The youths have no future when the country is run by CIA agents and spies.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 34 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, hon members.

Don’t drown the speaker, please.

Mr V ZUNGULA: Young people can’t inherit a country when justice is biased and people aren’t equal before the law.
Young people can’t inherit a country when those in power suspend those who are investigating them.

Only dictators do that.

Young people must rise and reclaim our country from descending into dictatorship.

Young people must reclaim the country from the wealthy who use their power and status to avoid being held accountable.

Parliament must safeguard the future of this country by fulfilling its constitutional mandate.
Parliament must safeguard the future of this country by holding the executive accountable especially for serious transgression to the law.

This Youth Day, must not be like other youth days where we say the same things over and over again.

IsiXhosa: Makuyiwe apho kufele khona ithole.

Apho kufele ithole ke, kusekuphathweni ngabophuli-mthetho, abantu abasebenzisana namanye amazwe ekubulaleni ilizwe lethu.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 35 English: ... Young people must reclaim this country from billionaires who have never invented anything.

Billionaires who are obsessed about money, but not the future generations of this country.

Billionaires who take endless loans that sell out the sovereignty of our country, loans that will be paid by future generations who do not even benefit from these loans.

Billionaires who treat the running of our country as a side hustle.
Billionaires who are greedy and are even willing to kill those who oppose them.

Young people, this is our country.

Let us reclaim our country from thieves.

Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, I think we need to introduce traffic lights so that when the House goes out of order, besides me saying the House is out of order, traffic lights show red.

Hon members, please control your voices.

An HON MEMBER: House Chair, red is a very important colour.

Please respect it.
Please respect it.

Mr B N HERRON: Thank you, House Chair, 28 years ago, on the first Youth Day commemorated in the newly democratic South Africa, then President Mandela announced the establishment of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 36 the Nelson Mandela Children’s Fund.

A year later, at the launch of the fund, he uttered the famous line that: “There can be no keener revelation of a society’s soul than the way in which it treats its children”.
The vision of a new society that guides us should already be manifest in the steps we take to address the wrong done to our youths and to prepare for their future.

Our actions and policies, and the institutions we create, should be eloquent with care, respect and love.

He said.

When we commemorate Youth Day, tomorrow, we are duty bound to acknowledge our failings in living up to that standard.

Even more important are the hard questions we must ask looking forward.

What are we going to do better?


In 1976, South Africa’s youth demonstrated that they had the urgency, recognised the wrongfulness of the society, and had the power to effect change.

Today’s youths have no less urgency, and have no less consciousness.

Instead of being ground down by apartheid, they are kept down by a rank education system, unemployment and poverty.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 37 Job creation was the focus of the President’ Sona, this year, but the situation remains dire.

The rate of unemployment fell by 1 percentage point in the last quarter.

But a 34% unemployment rate is not a number to be celebrated.

It is an acknowledgement of a crisis.

The cycle of poverty is unstoppable if people don’t have access to any income.

It is naïve to expect our young people to excel on empty stomachs.
There is plenty of scope for job creation in the areas of refurbishment, restoration and recovery from our long-term economic slump.

We need the skills to exploit these opportunities.

We need to work to engineer an employment domino effect by fixing public infrastructure, refurbishing our cities and towns and fulfilling our promise to house our citizens in dignified environments.

We begin the knock-on effect on job creation.

When we are seen to be succeeding, others, including investors will notice.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 38 We celebrate Youth Day to commemorate the bravery of the youth of our past, but also to steal our resolve to develop a sustainable and modern society for young people tomorrow.

As a society, we have a duty to the youth to protect and nurture them.

All of us, including the youths, have a duty to fix our country, to contribute to developing a fairer, more hopeful and more compassionate soul.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Ms N K SHARIFF: House Chairperson, we should not be debating how to promote resilient in young people – no!

no!

We should be removing all obstacles that are restricting young people so they do not have to continuously be resilient.

Resilient means being strong enough to bounce back from difficulties and overcome it.

If anything, we should ensure that young people and generation that come after us do not have to go through what generations before us went through.
We do not need to be resilient, we need to be given opportunities to better ourselves and our lives.

Before we can speak of sustaining livelihoods, there first has to be some level of attainable livelihoods.

Young people cannot even get jobs in this country, let alone be able to sustain any sort of livelihood.

Young people cannot afford to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 39 buy homes of their own.
They cannot afford to put petrol in their cars or afford to take a bus or taxi to an interview.

Young people go to school, get into depth, go through the most and still cannot find a job that can give them a decent income.

If you want to help young people start there.

Young women are being violated, raped, murdered and abused today.

Any plans this failing ANC government thinks they have to combat gender- based violence and femicide is delayed and pretty much non- existence.
How can we look at a better tomorrow when we are struggling right now, today?

Young men are struggling with anxiety and depression.

They are being thrown out into the wild without the support needed to succeed.

How can we talk about a better tomorrow without patronising young people we are talking to today?

Young people with disabilities experience this country at its worst.

The Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities suck.
They have no programmes or plans to give young people with disabilities a hand up.

This department must once just close their doors because they are hella disappointing.

We have some of the most amazing and inspiring young people in the world.

Young people are moving and shaking UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 40 up the status quo.

They are innovating new ways to fix old problems.

Fighting for equality and protecting our environment.
The vast networks of young people coming together to help each other and share opportunities amongst our co-workers is what makes us so special.

The collaborations from those young professionals and entrepreneurs plugging each other to the young people in civil society, and those in government that are demanding change, to those in the media and entertainment industry, we see you.

It is up to us to bring the change we are so desperately looking for.
Young people are resilient, not because we want to be, we don’t have a choice and it should never be like this.

We don’t need more debates.

We need this government to start taking us seriously and move out of the way so that we can bring change ourselves.

If you are sick and tired as I am of this failing ANC government, make sure that you are registered to vote in the 2024 national elections.
If we go out to the polls in our numbers, we have the power to vote this ANC out and remove them from the seats of power they keep abusing and bring in a capable government.

The DA is the only party that puts young people in places where we can bring change.

[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 41 [Applause.]

Like it or not, this is a fact.

No ...

[Inaudible.]

...

I thank you.


Ms A S HLONGO: Ms A S HLONGO: House Chairperson, the Chief Whip and the Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party, hon members, young people of South Africa, ... IsiZulu: ... sanibonani [I greet you all] English: Allow me to pay tribute and celebrate the youth of 1976 who taught us to rise and stand firm for what is right.

To fight for change and to believe in ourselves as a generation.
I want to agree with Nelson Mandela when he said: Sometimes it falls upon a generation to be great.

You be that great generation.

Let your greatness blossom.

Indeed, we are a great generation.

A generation that stands in platforms like this to fight for interest of those young people within the system.
IsiZulu: UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 42 Singakhohlwa-ke ukubabonga ... English: ... those that paved the way for us to stand in these platforms and represent young people of this country.

[Applause.]

Hon members, issues of the young people need us all as youth, united and fighting them.

It does not need us to come in party caps to fight issues of the youth.

We know very well all the challenges that young people in this country are facing.
The ANC considers youth as motive for its force for change.

Our movement has seen and supported many generation of youth who have emerged within and outside the ANC and has made an impact to the struggle of our young people.

The formation of the ANC itself was an initiative driven by a young scholar, a Pan Africanist, Pixley ka Isaka Seme who made a clarion call for the unity of all Africans in the continent.

Hon members, the youth of today exists with the effects of unemployment, poverty and inequality.
This has further been exacerbated by COVID-19 pandemic and has had a dreadful impact on young people with unemployment rising amongst the youth.

It is these challenges that I have manifested other social ills such as substance abuse, crime, mental health issues and gender-based violence.

These social ills threaten the various UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 43 of our social fibre and the youth bear the brunt of all these challenges.
Hon members, our social transformation agenda places youth at the centre of the debate in terms of the programmes of change that needs to happen and currently receiving different forms of financial assistance from government and other entities.

Building an inclusive economy has seen numerous programmes being opened up in learnerships, training and development and government agencies promoting, designing entrepreneurial programmes.
Bringing the youth in the economy is the most important task that needs to be undertaken by our government.

Chairperson, the latest employment statistics provides some cause of relieve with 370 000 jobs being created in the first quarter of this year.

The youth is the future hence government programmes and the budget are structured towards programmes that take youth forward towards the future.
Therefore, these programmes align themselves towards building an inclusive economy with the youth across the masterplans of the economic reconstruction and recovery plan with the youth being placed in these plans not only as beneficiaries, but also contributing to the economy.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 44 The process is mutually reinforcing with youth development from finance programmes whilst government ...

[Inaudible.]
[Inaudible.]

... more in shaping and designs of programmes that addresses specific and dedicated needs of young people.

The ideas and energies of our youth are already being deployed in response to the socio-economic conditions through their innovative and entrepreneurial spirit, especially in townships and rural areas.
We speak of the story of Sibusiso Shabangu from Sibange village in Kwamazi in Mpumalanga, who together with his six employees was manufacturing oil, diesel, petrol, jet fuel and LP gas from his backyard using biotechnology from plastic waste.

At that time Sibusiso was manufacturing 200 litres of petrol, 200 litres of diesel and 50 litres of petrol a day and local community was a buzz and supportive of Sibusiso.
We call upon small enterprise development agency and other relevant state institutions to continue to provide the necessary support to innovators and entrepreneurs like Sibusiso who are providing economic solutions by speedily assisting them to meet compliance standard in order to supply the local markets and in process create youth employment.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 45 The National Youth Development Agency, NYDA which is an agency that is led by young women of this country who are equally capable of leading, continues to harness the spirit of entrepreneurship through their grant funding.

We have to acknowledge that entrepreneurship has the ability to foster great creation in the country and many young people have taken advantage of prosperous opportunity.
Good example is Zimela Mhlongo, a 28-year-old man from ...

[Inaudible.]

... village in Mpumalanga was able to start his carwash business at the height of COVID-19 with the help of the National Youth Development Agency and has employed 13 young people in his business.
Also in KwaZulu-Natal, a young person aged 34 by the name of Nakubomke was able to secure funding from the provincial Department of Economic Development Tourism and Environmental Affairs Operation Vula Fund and from the National Youth Development Agency to adequately run her business of selling purified water.

House Chairperson, earlier on I alluded on other social ills that are affecting youth as crime, substance abuse and gender- based violence.
We must use sport and creative arts as a tool against crime and substance abuse in our communities to UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 46 promote peace.

Initiatives such as sports boost resilience and strengthens the live skills of the youth amongst factors such as crime and drugs.
The development of recreational facilities throughout our communities will also enable our communities to utilise the arts, culture and sports initiatives effectively, enable the participation of youth and reject unbecoming tendencies which undermines our social cohesion.

The national strategic plan against gender-based violence and femicide is a plan devised by all social partners to fight gender-based violence.
This must also find expression in the schooling curriculum of basic education and tertiary institutions if we are to win the fight against gender-based violence.

This also includes the participation of stakeholders such as us to continue to raise awareness about detrimental effects of gender-based violence in families and the broader society.

This is towards the efforts of fighting toxic behaviour and toxic social norms that find expression in our societies.
Hon members, if we are to end gender-based violence, the national strategic plan and gender-based violence has to include in all operations of learning whether sports, arts and culture, schools and further education and the broader media.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 47 As the ANC, we are calling for all members of the society to become gender-based violence activists and take the stand against gender-based violence.
Hon members, as I conclude, another pandemic that does not receive enough coverage is the plight of suicide and depression in our country, particularly amongst young men in our society.

We must promote cultural, verbal expressions and talk about our issues.

Many young people are suffering in silence due to the socio-economic conditions that they experience.

We must break the silence.

I thank you.

[Applause.]


Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, House Chairperson, in 1976, there was a student uprising both in Soweto and in the Western Cape fighting for better quality education, language, and to get education itself.

Today, we have education and we are not taking advantage of it.

Many don’t even attend classes, that’s why we have a 60% dropout.

In 1976, we did not have enough facilities.


Today, we have the facilities but we are burning, destroying, and vandalising UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 48 them.

The damages to the infrastructure alone are worth half a billion rand.

In 1976, we did not have free education.

We fought for it.

We have free education today.


The money that we are providing through the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, we use it for cellphones, airtime, designer clothes, and hair and nails and not for the intended purpose.

In 1976, the youth even worked part-time to earn a living to supplement the income that they relied on from their parents.
The youth of today, the income that they get from NSFAS ... they don’t want to work part-time and earn a living, they believe they are entitled to it, but they are partying, abusing alcohol, and dropping out of colleges and schools.

That’s the norm.

One in two children that starts going to school don’t even finish school.

What is the future we are creating when we say the youth are the future of this country?

It comes back to what we said yesterday about dysfunctional families and what has gone wrong.
Let me give you some statistics, twenty-three thousand girls under the age of 18 ended up pregnant, nine hundred and thirty-four of these girls were under the age of 14.

Fifty UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 49 percent of fathers at the age of 15 to 24 are unemployed.

What does it tell you?

The number of children, not women, that are falling pregnant both as a result of the conduct of boys and girls ... it all comes back to the issue of dysfunctional families.
Are we saying we are going to expect a better future if this is going to be the conduct of the youth of today?

Certainly not.

Population growth is one of the root causes of unemployment in the country because we are not able to accommodate the number of children that are being born into the employment sector.

There is not enough career guidance, lack of experience, and mismatch at school.

Lastly, I want to touch on one thing.

[Time expired.]

Thank you very much.

[Interjections.]


Mr S M JAFTA: Thank you, hon House Chair ...

[Inaudible.]

... existing government led measures that are geared towards promoting young people’s livelihoods and resilience in the midst of the global pandemic and high rates of unemployment.

Our assessment is that the road ahead is laden with ambivalence, uncertainty and hopelessness for these young UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 50 population.
Here are the number to demonstrate this assertion: South Africa has a population of 58 million people.

Forty million of this population comprises of economically unproductive and old stratum.

Only 18 million of this population constitute the youth.

This means our economy, which largely requires agile, young and enterprising young South Africans to stay up the economic spin offs will perpetually be on the fault line.

The rate of unemployment amongst young people is instructive in this regard.
Only 35% of South Africa’s 13 million youth population is employed.

It is not shocking therefore that 65% of these youths are unemployed.

The recent report of World Bank tells us where the problem lies.

Firstly, because doing business in South is cumbersome; the high tariff rates to imported goods; the regulatory red tape and challenges relating to visa requirements, all account to this problem; secondly, the rail infrastructure is in bad state.
Eskom’s infrastructure is old and fragile; and lastly, we have not moved with speed to invest in the digital economy and building domestic technical skills.

We have also failed to promote small business development and expanding access to finance.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 51 The World Bank’s findings cannot be taken lightly.

Therefore, until we attend to them with efficiency, our young population will remain trapped in cycles of grinding poverty and despair.
It is therefore upon us to shoot through all cylinders and take stock of all the data at our disposal.

I thank you, House Chair.

Mr W M MADISHA: Thank you, House Chair, the day we are here to remember is a very important and significant one for all South Africans both young and old, although South Africans in particular had already risen to fight for equality and freedom by 16 June 1976.
It is an open secret that activism and an unequal political change were intensified by what the youth contributed during that period.

Today, South Africa is called a democratic country because all South Africans can vote.

But South Africa has become the most oppressive country in the entire world when it comes to what the young people are faced with.

It has been said by the entire world institutions that we are number 176 when it comes to poverty and equality.
The ANC government has succeeded to deliver economic oppression, to deny the youth access to jobs, free education UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 52 and the youth development.

It has succeeded to the youth and the poor South Africans proper health services, to deploy to all legislative institutions, including here, the majority of politicians who do not understand what’s the mandate to serve.
It is those deployees who believe that which they are supposed to do is to boo whatever opposition there is, so that if you rise and say here you are wrong, the best thing that they can say is boo moo.

That is what they know.

The ANC has succeeded to give jobs to bureaucrats who believe that deployment means theft and corruption.

The ANC has succeeded in its failure to create jobs for the majority of the people of South Africa.
What South Africa is faced with today is 28 years of sufferance of torture and the greatest level of theft.

It is extremely disappointing.

What the ANC has succeeded here to do is to rise and say each time wherever and whenever people rise to say we are hungry, they will quote Nelson Mandela and other people who fought for freedom, and they will not say, here we have failed.

Therefore, the people of South Africa must now rise and say, ANC you have disappointed us ... [Time expired.]

Thank you very much.


Moo ANC, boo ANC.

You are failures.

Mr M NYHONTSO: House Chairperson, the demographics in the youth sector in occupied Azania are heavily skewed, in favour UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 53 of the inheritors of the proceeds of riches, for many years of exploitation of the mineral and human resources of the land.

Wealth in the hands of a few has not been redistributed, since the advent of the new dispensation in 1994.
We have in existence a pyramid of privileges, wherein the upper-class children of the extremely well off by tiny minority have a job, and you have a bend of the hard working middle-class professionals in their variety, whose children seek to sustain a semblance of privilege and opportunities to make it in life.

This is where racial categorisation continues to drive a wedge of divisions, even African families are to ask whether these barriers will ever come to an end.
At the bottom of the pyramid, is a huge majority of degraded and despised set of young people, from the rural poor communities and the urban homeland, who can only escape in drips and drops from their social background through hard and painful measures.

This scenario is unsustainable.

It is a powder cage waiting to explode.

In the same manner that June 16 1976 uprising was inevitable resolution, from the bottom, the grass roots, from those who do not have a future to look up to.
We understand June 1976 because our leaders were brains behind it.

We remember Bethal trialist, we remember Zeph Mothopeng, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 54 we remember John Ganya, we salute bro Mike Matsobane and 15 others.

The PAC is of the view that, in overhaul measures that are taken by the government, should be put in place.
We need to fast-track the upscaling of skills for young people, and open the institutions of higher learning to a much wider set of youth from the bottom of the pyramid.

We need a well- rounded education programme to upscale the livelihood of young people.

We need a new delta net of mass employment programme driven by government, to include the majority of young people on the development of Southern Africa geopolitical region.

If we do not consider changing our perspective, young people are doomed.
There is no future to look up to.

Thank you very much.

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, Happy Elder Day, we must stand to the day, they don’t like 70-year olds here in this Parliament.

Inspired by the struggles of the youth of 1976, Al Jama-Ah is throwing its weight behind campaigns for true liberation by the youth.

This is part of the renewal campaign of us who have roots in the liberation movement.
We must support the revival of the governing party as it is the only party with the numbers or idea of liberation movement.

Just imagine South Africa led by the DA coalition, that will not be UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 55 true liberation that the youth wants.

Black faces in the DA rejects.


I want to tell the youth, as we commemorate the sacrifices of those who fought for them in 1976, that Cabinet Ministers have seen to it that there are funds in their votes for them.

Al Jama-Ah will keep them accountable, and the development agencies like the NDA, in fact, go an extra mile to make programmes happen.

We are already working with some of these programmes.
Al Jama-Ah will ask the Cabinet Ministers, what what do you have for the youth in your line items for Paarl, Mtubatuba, Harding, Mpame village, Groutville, Dimbaza, Umzinto, Bushbuckridge, Bokmakierie, New Horizons in Pelikan Park and many other villages, locations and townships, where Al Jama-Ah is throwing its weight behind the youth and commemorating June 16 where they live this year?

No other political party is doing this for the youth of South Africa.
If they do it, it is for narrow political party interests.
Al Jama-Ah is calling on the media to help tell the youth where these revolutionary events are taking place, and themselves attend these events, and report to the nation, the untold stories of June 16, especially from the Western Cape, and settle the debate, whether the call for education before UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 56 liberation, or the call for liberation before education was a better call, in view of the crisis in education today, especially, in the Western Cape, where the DA is firing our best school Principals, like Wesley Neuman.
The learners of Heathfield High are picketing today at venue where conciliation is being done.

Hon members must support the conciliation, and Heathfield learners will be so proud as they see the hon members are there for them, and it is not just lip service in this debate.

So, see you in Paarl, at Kingston High School, in Klein Nederbgurg at 10 am tomorrow.

That is the place to be, where Al Jama-Ah will tell the untold story of June 16.
Afrikaans: Pollie, ons gaan Pêrel toe ... English: ... and for the ladies in the House, Pollie is a lady, she’s going to Paarl to visit her pêrels [pearls].

Thank you very much, hon House Chair.

Ms A L A ABRAHAMS: Thank you, House Chairperson.

I thought long and hard about the topic for this year’s Youth Day UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 57 debate, and I could not help but think, why does this government continually burden young people with the need to be resilient?
Why must young people take on even more and absorb more stress to keep this system, this country functioning?

For example, getting an education at all levels during these past two years of COVID-19 and lockdown, was a nightmare.

Yet, as soon as we survive one thing, as young people we are expected to bounce back, in the name of a lesson learnt in resilience and a better tomorrow.

But what about the present and government’s role to shield us from never ending shocks?
The Ruling Party, the ANC, through a litany of bad policies, continues to strip away all opportunities, forcing young people into survival mode, robbing them of a joyful and carefree youth.

We know many ANC members gave up their youth for this country, but why are we still having to give up ours 28 years later?

What was the point of your struggle, if we are still paying the price?
Such as the price that poor and unemployed young South Africans will pay, due to Minister Lindiwe Zulu’s new R350 Social Relief Distress, SRD, Grant regulations.

The qualifying criteria for this grant has recently changed.

The lower food poverty line of R624 as a minimum monthly income UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 58 has now been reduced to R350.
A new definition for income has also been crafted in the regulations, to include all forms of income including, support from your family members.

This essentially means, if five of your extended family members deposit R70 a month into your bank account, making up R350 every month, you will no longer qualify for this grant, and there goes the money young people used on transport to get to a job interview, or to get the data required to search and apply for jobs.
The ANC government does this knowing, 60,7% of applicants for the grant are young, unemployed people, under 35 years, and the majority of whom are women.

That is how much the ANC cares about the youth.

The excuse given in this regard is that, there is only enough money for 10,5 million South Africans to receive the grant.

I recently read that SA Revenue Services, SARS, collected R1,564 trillion in taxes.

Where does this money go?

I’m sure every South African knows the answer to that.
These kind of regulations and policy decisions force young people to do anything and everything to survive, like young women increasing their economic dependence on abusive male partners, or young people collecting recycling materials, doing odd jobs UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 59 and hawking on the streets.

Some of our youth even involve themselves in risky forms of employment such as sex work.
In their desperation to find work, youth in rural areas migrate to unfamiliar urban areas, finding themselves living in informal settlements in unhealthy living conditions with non-existent basic services and subjected to daily acts of crime.

The ANC has failed to provide young people with opportunities to earn the honest and dignified living that they have been promised, and as long as the ANC is in power, the generational poverty cycle will continue.
Chairperson, before we can talk about sustainable livelihoods for a better tomorrow for young people, we need to first fix the present.

We need our youth to make it to adulthood, with their mind, body, emotion and spirit still intact.

The President can start fixing the present by doing away with all COVID-19 restrictions, to kick-start the economy, giving hope to the unemployed youth.

Welcome to South Africa, survival of the fittest, survival of the most resilient.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon House Chairperson, members of the executive, hon members and fellow South Africans, on the occasion of this debate for Youth Day we must UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 60 never lose sight of what we seek to achieve through this exercise.

We do not converge just to exchange words of disagreement, nor are we here to play into the gallery of seeking frame, glory and relevance.
We gather to reflect on the past that has led to the present and how we can, in the present, work to secure a better future for the youth of this country.

We have gathered here not to see who can shout the most and list the most problems.

We are here to provide solutions to the complex problems that face our youth.

The task at hand requires clarity of thought.

It requires us to be factual and truthful because not doing so takes us further away from finding long-lasting solutions.
We must be cautious of the lumpenproletariat that makes revolutionary sounds to sway us from the truth because there are enemies of progress.

We must always seek truth from facts as the Chinese will say.

We can never shy away or turn a blind eye to the problems faced by our youth which are in the main driven by a poor-performing economy.

The economic situation has resulted in concerning statistics with youth unemployment sitting at 63,9%.
This is, however, a reduction of 2,6% from the 66,5% in the previous quarter which indicates that beyond the difficulties we are making progress.

The Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 61 remains our most effective weapon in resolving the economic challenges faced by our youth.

The Presidential Employment Stimulus Package has resulted in the support of 850 000 opportunities.
It is such interventions that show the commitment of the government to resolving the challenges faced by the youth of our country.

The Youth Micro Enterprise Relief Fund together with the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, grant funding programme has collectively sustained 8 600 jobs in the economy.

Through the NYDA Jobs Programme, 6 000 young people have been placed in jobs.

The Department of Home Affairs has opened up 10 000 opportunities for young people through its Digitisation Programme.
The SA Police Service will in the financial year 2022-23 will enlist 7 000 new recruits.

These are some of but a few examples of how the government is actively reducing youth unemployment.

We understand that growing the economy is crucial for youth development and growth.

The Key to the growth of our country is industrialisation and beneficiation.
The Beneficiation Strategy provides a framework that seeks to translate the country’s competitive advantage derived from mineral resources endowment to national competitive advantage.

The strategies aligned to a national industrialisation programme which seeks UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 62 to enhance the quality and quantity of exports, promote the creation of decent employment and diversification of the economy, including promoting the green economy.
Further, the strategy is contributing towards the strengthening of the knowledge economy in support of the overall competitiveness of our economy.

As part of attracting investment and companies to where people are found, the revitalisation of the industrial parks located in black African townships is being implemented with the building of digital hubs to attract youth innovators and entrepreneurs.
Through the partnership with Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, mentors and consultants are placed to coach and guide the youth in the hubs as part of incubation.

In April this year, one in Botshabelo Industrial Park in the Free State was launched.

The next project is in Mandeni KwaSithebe Industrial Park.

The rest are to follow in all provinces.

Through interventions of the Department of Trade and Industry, the government has created opportunities for industries to thrive.
This month has already started solidly with the VW plant line in Kariega in the Eastern Cape producing 1 million VW Polos for export.

We launched a new food factory carry, Kerry UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 63 Ingredients, in KwaZulu-Natal, Corobrik.
At the end of the month the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, will launch the pilot township economy programme to improve access to finance and de-risk SMMEs through business support measures, all benefiting young people.

By September, the production of industrial helium will start in the Free State.

We are one of only eight countries globally producing this gas.

The Chinese company Royal Industries will complete its tile manufacturing facility.

The SA Food Exporter Network will be launched.


We also aim to conclude the SA Customs Union formal tariff.

offer of the African Continental Free Trade Agreement, covering 90% of all tariffs.

By October, the Tshwane Special Economic Zone, SEZ, the 20 aims to complete 11 automotive component plants in support of Ford’s R16 billion investment employing about 2 000 workers in the new zone.
The SA Steel Mills aims to complete its production plant as announced at the Investment Conference and the draft Patents Bill will be submitted to the Cabinet for consideration.

These are about a few progressive industrialisation projects that the government, working with the private sector, continues to build into reality.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 64 Those who have not bothered to familiarise themselves with this work must not speak much and just relax and not come here and discourage the youth that their future is bleak.

A nation that does not invest in the education of its youth is practically building a society without a future.

It is our desire to see a better future for our youth that drives our unwavering investment in education.
Over the years, we have increased both infrastructure and financial support to increase higher education and training intakes.

The number of enrolments for public higher education stood at above 1 million in 2022.

This is an increase from 837 776 in the year 2010.

This is a clear indication that we are progressing rather than regressing.

Our higher education system has drawn international interest with recent numbers of international students has grown from 34 000 to about 51 000 in 2022.
This is a clear indication that our infrastructure built for higher education is allowing us to increase access to higher education.

The Department of Higher Education and Training invested R56,8 billion in the 2021 financial year for post-school education and training.

This was an increase from R25,1 billion in the 2011-12 financial year, doubling the investment that we have been making in education.
In the year 2018, the Department of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 65 Higher Education and Training introduced a bursary which subsidised the poor working-class students.

This is part of the progressive call made by the ANC Youth League for free education in our lifetime.

The National Student Financial Aid Scheme benefited 765 740 learners with a total amount of about R37 billion for the 2020 academic year.
This is a huge investment by the government towards securing education and a brighter future for the South African youth.

This shows that we remain committed to the continued improvement of the education levels of our youth.

The government continues to build a new social compact that brings together social partners, labour, communities and business.

These interventions will see public-private partnerships being put in place in the ports of Durban and Ngqura.
We are already looking at the reform that will reduce the red tape to accelerate growth and job creation.

To build a better future for the youth we must invest in strategic infrastructure that will benefit generations that will come after us.
The state of the nation address by President Cyril Ramaphosa makes it clear that over the next 10 years, the government will invest about R100 billion with R96 billion targeted for student accommodation, roads and infrastructure to telecommunications, as well as water and sanitation.

The UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 66 Spanish-American philosopher George Santayana teaches us that those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.
We must never forget that the youth of 1976 stood against Bantu education.

And it was the ANC that supported this vision and continues to say the doors of learning shall be opened to all.

Even today, we continue to hold true to our commitment by opening doors of learning.

The youth of 1976 stood against making Afrikaans compulsory in schools.

It is a shame to see products of those who benefited in marginalising a black child stands here and say the ANC has failed.

They never wanted the ANC to succeed.


And even today they still do not wish to see it making progress.

They are nothing but armchair critics with nothing to offer except being enemies of progress.

June 16 reminds us that young people of different generations have always acted to solve the unique problems of their day.

The youth of today also has the responsibility to provide leadership on issues facing their generation.
It is for these young people to provide clear solutions on how to respond to the present challenges the youth of today ought to find innovative ways of tackling the challenges we are currently confronted with.

Young people should become active agents of change.

They must lead the country through the innovative idea UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 67 that speaks to the leadership that is needed amongst young people in all sectors of society.
Being an active agent, progressive change speaks to an ability to be proactive in thinking about ways to overcome the challenges we face.

We need young people that will think beyond themselves.

We need a youth that is committed to a common future for all.

A youth that will commit themselves to actively creating a better South Africa.

The pursuit of individual wealth ought not to outweigh the commitment to building a better future for all.
Young people ought to work towards a common future for all by thinking of solutions to structural problems that hold our country back.

We need leaders that will become think- tanks, action people and role models for progressive change.

We all need people who will come and use these platforms to campaign and say, remove the ANC.

IsiZulu: Enye nenye sizobuye siyibone.

[Ubuwelewele.]

English: That shows a lack of vision.

This will require commitment ...

[Interjections.]


... discipline, selflessness and ambition to grow beyond the limit of self.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 68 IsiZulu: Angazi-ke bahlonishwa be-IFP, ukuthi uma ...

[Ubuwelewele.]

... kuthiwa kukhishwa abadala ubani ozokhishwa lapho kunina mhlonishwa u-Singh.

English: In conclusion, Chair, it is our firm belief that the future of our youth is ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

... IsiZulu: Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, ngiyaxolisa, ngale kokuthi aze aqhubeke, kancane nje.

English: Yes, it is a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon member.

Hon Deputy Minister, please take your seat.

[Interjections.]

Order hon members!

Hon members!

Hon members!

Hon members!

IsiZulu: Nk M S KHAWULA: Ngicela nithule.

Ngisukuma ngoMthetho u-66 ...

[Ubuwelewele.]

... ngicela nithule kancane nilalele ...

[Ubuwelewele.]
[Ubuwelewele.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 69 English: The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members from the ANC.

I want to listen to the point of order and you are disrupting the person I have recognised.

Let us give the hon member the opportunity, please.

Please proceed.

IsiZulu: Nk M S KHAWULA: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo.

Ngizizwa ngiphatheka kabi.

Umhlonishwa wami ngebhadi usuka e-KwaZulu-Natal uzokhuluma ngentsha.

Uzobala indawo yaseMandeni KwaSithebe.


KwaSithebe abantu bakhona bahola R45 ngesonto besebenzela amanxusa.

Ubohamba uyokwenza ucwaningo kuqala bese ubuye uzokhuluma.

Buzikayahlupheka.

Lento oyikhulumayo uzikhulumelo ngento ongayazi ...

[Akuzwakali.]

... abantu bakithi.

Nawe ungomunye okufuneka uphume la.

Ayikho into ayihlalele la ePhalamende The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Khawula, please take your seat.

Order hon members!

Hon Khawula, that is not a point of order.


It is not a point of order.

It is a point for debate.

Hon Deputy Minister, before you proceed.

May I request members in the House, let us respect one another.

If you want to be respected, please respect another member as well.

When a member has been recognised you cannot just interrupt the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 70 member and start shouting and screaming at them.

This is not a crèche; this is the National Assembly.
Please proceed, hon member.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you, hon Chairperson.

Again they are pointing to the problems that the ANC is solving.

The projects we are indicating will resolve the very same issues that are being dealt with.

In conclusion, Chair, it is our firm belief that the future of our youth is bright.

We must continue to invest in hard work to turn the fortunes of our youth.

We must continue to work hard and never be deterred by the enemies of progress.
We must hold steadfast and build a better and brighter future for our youth because they will always remember that the ANC remained committed to building a brighter future for them by presenting practical solutions.

Chairperson, I thank you.

AN HON MEMBER: Chairperson, I am concerned that this person who was never in Parliament is not wearing a mask ...most of them.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, may I appeal, when the session opened the request was clearly made for members to keep their masks on.

You are sitting in close UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 71 proximity to one another, so let us do that.
May I also request that these MPs on the right-hand side who are sitting across from where hon Paulsen is sitting, as well as the hon Paulsen, stop agitating one another because you are disrupting procedures in the House.

If you want to communicate with one another, please go outside and do so.

It is disrespectful when there is a member on the podium and you are simply continuing with the to and fro with one another.

It also happened yesterday and this is your final warning.
Next time I am going to ask you to leave the House.

Debate concluded.
CONSIDERATION OF CANDIDATE NOMINATED FOR APPOINTMENT AS INSPECTOR-GENERAL OF INTELLIGENCE SERVICES (Report of Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence) Mr J J MAAKE: Hon Chairperson, comrades and colleagues, section 7(1) of the Intelligence Services Oversight Act 40 of 1994, mandates the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence to nominate a candidate to the National Assembly for approval by at least two thirds of its members to be appointed as an inspector-general by the President of the country.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 72 On 8 and 9 February, the committee interviewed 10 shortlisted candidates for the position of Inspector-General of Intelligence, IGI.

The candidates were interviewed on relevant areas regarding the role and functions of the IGI based on the Constitution, the Act and other relevant legislation on other matters such as the high-level review panel report.
Following deliberations, the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence resolved by simple majority of members present, to nominate Rev Frank Chikane for approval by the National Assembly for recommendation to the President for appointment as the IGI.

There was a stage in this country, where the country went for more than 18 months without an IGI, only because of disagreement of parties in this House.
Such a situation is definitely undesirable for the people of our country, especially if we go back and look at the main reason for the establishment of such an office.

We all know what used to happen during the apartheid era.

The security and intelligence services used to do things with impunity.

They were a law unto themselves.

The creation of this office was to try to curb all these abnormalities.
We therefore can’t afford to go for long periods without this very important and serious watchdog UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 73 office, especially after what came out of the Zondo Commission Report.

Having said all this, let us all look at the appropriate person needed in an office of this nature.
Impartiality, honesty, high morality, integrity, dedication and patriotism, putting your country first before personal interest ... Let us then turn to the nominee that we are bringing to the House.

The interview of this candidate was done in view of the whole of South Africa and maybe even the whole world that cared to watch the interview.

I would like to believe that the whole world saw who the best candidate in the interviews was.
So, my belief is that any right-thinking person, without prejudice and not influenced by hatred but being objective and rational, would make the right decision in this case for the sake of our country.

Hypocrisy should be declared a sin to those that are believers and if it was ... [no audio] ...

It is hypocritical for some of us in this House to have identified Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela as a terrorist for over 27 years, and suddenly changed their hearts and called him a hero.
The fact remains that he was one of the founders of uMkhonto weSizwe.

He was the first UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 74 commander-in-chief of this terrorist organisation, therefore making him the biggest terrorist.

Rev Chikane was never a commander-in-chief.

As far as I know, he was never a terrorist.

He is a man of the cloth, who was poisoned and nearly killed for his convictions by a system that operated with impunity.
As I said earlier, this office, like the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, Police secretariat, Defence Secretariat, etc was established in order to stop the madness of impunity within the security, intelligence and defence structures of this country, to keep them in check.

Here is the right man for the job.

An impartial, honest man of high morals, a patriot, a dedicated man with integrity, a man who without doubt can serve his country with diligence.

Everybody knows this.


He stands for the truth.

He even stands up and says it when his own organisation is going astray ...

[Inaudible.]

[Time expired.]

There was no debate.

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus, United Democratic Movement, African UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 75 Transformation Movement, Good, African Independent Congress and African National Congress.
Declarations of Vote: Ms D KOLHER: Institutional memory is a wonderful thing.

There are those in this House who whether they like it or not remember the last time the ANC tried to ...

[Inaudible.]

as Inspector-General of Intelligence.

Now, not from the moment suggesting that the Rev Chikane is in anywhere similar to the Constitution crushing former ANC Member of Parliament, MP, Cecil Secrecy Bill Burgess.
However, what happened after that debacle, yes, it took years to find a replacement, everyone would accept because the ANC put upper person that was never going to get the two-third majority in this House.

Cecil Burges was the worst possible candidate the ANC could have chosen to attempt to put in this position.

Therefore, years later it was Dr Dintwe, he was eventually sworn in and he had to have a spine of steel.
He was attacked from every side and even had his top secret security clearance removed by Arthur Fraser when he saw ...

[Inaudible.]

too close to that particular fire.

Well he survived, of course, Mr Fraser was moved out then he saved by the President.

He is still in the President today and was handed a high paying job UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 76 of director-general, DG, of Correctional Services.

Ministers attacked Dr Dintwe.


Others lay complains that were false from beginning to end, but were duly investigated and still Dr Dintwe persevered.

He did the job which was to monitor intelligence activities.

His term ended and another ANC has suddenly produced.

Therefore, another friend colleague, Rev Chikane, a gentle and delightful man who has a strong background, who has fight apartheid, survived an assassination attempt.
Therefore, from 1997 he became a member of the ANC National Executive Committee, NEC, and then DG to the Presidency under Thabo Mbeki, and a consultant to President Motlanthe and Zuma.

He is ANC to his very roots and went on from Parliament to become the President of the Apostolic Faith Mission.

The question has to be asked is whether an ANC cadre will stand up and act if an issue rose against a lifelong colleague.

Perhaps the Minister, he will be put an impossible situation, is a matter of credibility.
It is highly unlikely a working member and one of the ...

[Inaudible.]

services will believe that he will take their side rather than the side of his good comrades.

Whether this will play out or such irrelevance, the perception will remain.

As an elder he should UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 77 really not be put in this position nor should the staff of the entities be put in the position of ...

[Inaudible.]

with champion.


Despite the fact that the three Democratic Alliance members of the Judicial Service Commission, JSC, did not vote for this candidate to be appointed, it seems according to or headlines that it was announced to the media that our committee has decided upon the reverend.

That decision was in no way unanimous, but that was somehow left out of the reports.
This is a specific position and need someone who will not be given pressure from Ministers attempting to protect certain favour to their departments.

Decisions have to be taken and pushed ahead no matter how difficult and unpopular they are.

We had huge expertise amongst these candidates, but the reverend was a specific ANC candidate despite having been out of these ...

[Inaudible.]

for many, many years.


The entire trusts of the High Level Panel report were that intelligence must be a political not supporting any governing party faction and seldom has been a time when the factions have been as strong, and it is common cause that the reverend is and will always be an ...

[Inaudible.]

part of the ANC.


The High Level Panel, HPL, report proved what we had long UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 78 contended that those intelligence agencies notable the State Security Agency, SSA, were bidding of factional of the ANC.

The reverend’s knowledge of the Thabo Mbeki era is vast, but it is of that era.

In the past decades as the DG in the Presidency he worked in the periphery of the security sector and this came across very clearly in his interview.
He believed that there are things of the office of the Inspector- General of Intelligence, IGI, he can’t achieve when, in fact, they are far outside of his mandates.

In his interview he said that he believes the gaps of the law will be filled by the position of the IGI.

The laws are handled by Parliament and he’s looking to restructuring intelligence to all the acting positions the IGI has no role to play there.
He believes he should fix his issues, but that’s not the job of the IGI, it’s the job of the Minister, the DG and the politicians.

He says what was created at the dawn of democracy is then ...

[Inaudible.]

but he was there for a decade on the ANC top structures watching it happened.

Grace and elder status do not necessarily equal the ability to deal decisively with people that have looted hundreds of millions of rand as all laid out in technical detail during the Zondo Commission.
We are not talking about people who will be impressed by someone who UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 79 simply expect them to do the right thing.

They have already done the wrong thing repeatedly and got away with it.

The reverend is not the person to do this job.

Therefore, the Democratic Alliance will vote against this proposal.

[Applause.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: Thank you, hon House Chairperson.


The EFF fundamentally rejects the recommendation that Frank Chikane must be the IGI.

This is one of the most embarrassing proposals coming from the benches of the ANC indicating a serious crippling of their psychology because this recycling is a demonstration of the greatest cognitive dissonance there ever was.
A 71-year-old in a pool of talent across the country that must be reinserted at the highest level of constitutional structures is a statement of no-confidence on the youth, is a statement of no-confidence generally in the country.

However, is a reflection that the ANC has run out of talent.

Chikane was the worst performing candidate in the interviews.

However, let us go to the basic issue which is being forwarded in relation to its candidature that is his integrity.
We are of the opinion that he’s got an inconsistent morality and ethical practice demonstrated number one, by his utter silence in 2001 when President Mbeki abused the intelligence services UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 80 to try and investigate three of the veterans of the ANC supposedly plotting to harm him and oust him.

This was on the eve of the 2002 conference of the ANC.

It was obvious that President Mbeki was in abused of these structures.
Chikane was silent and did nothing.

He admitted to being asked to run for this position by ANC leaders.

However, when he was asked to declare who these leaders are he was not ethical enough to declare that I was asked by so and so to stand for this position.
He knows little if not nothing about the current environment of the intelligence services indicated by his proposals in relation to the amendment of laws into the fixing of structures that have nothing to do with the constitutional and legislative mandate of the IGI.

Chikane is also steeped in nongovernment organisations, NGOs, that are compromised, that are infiltrated by intelligence structures.
However, above all to show this ethical inconsistency he works with people in these NGOs who want to fix South Africa’s democracy, but ironically are in support of apartheid Israel.

When he was teased on his questions Chikane was obvious came out to be inconsistent contradictory in relation to the consistency in relation to ethics.

Therefore, he does not have the ethical command and the integrity that the ANC supposes that he does.
However, on the eve of June 16 UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 81 to recommend the 71-year-old that has had his time is a greatest statement of no-confidence in the youth and the talent of this country.
I think that if Ntate Chikane still has any ounce of ethical and integrity left within him he should literally just resign, he should be unavailable, take a back seat, mentor and advice, but not want to be part of an active government that he has helped, that he has been part of and that he has been at its highest positions to help go down.

He’s part of the old guard and he’s part of the people that we should not be hearing their names to take important roles anymore.
The EFF rejects its candidature and we will not support it.

In fact, as you’ve had realised we opposed him in and outside the committee deliberations.

Therefore, this candidate will not make it even today.

He’s not going to get two-third majority because he can’t be supported.

He has no ethical consistency.

He has no technical knowledge of the intelligence services and he’s the old guard.

He’s infiltrated.
He’s infiltrated.

He works in NGOs that are infiltrated by international intelligence agencies and he’s oblivious to that.

We reject his candidature.

Thank you very much.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 82 Ink R N CEBEKHULU: Hon Chairperson, given the extremely sensitive nature of the mandate and the information dealt with by the State Security Agency, SSA, it is almost impossible for absolute oversight of the intelligent services.
This is precisely why it is necessary to have an Inspector-General of Intelligence who reports to the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, JSCI, and the President as required by the Constitution and in terms of the Intelligence Services Oversight Act.

Chairperson, it is a fact that the JSCI will only be as strong as the Inspector-General who reports to it.

The position requires an individual whose conduct and political partisanship are beyond reproach.
The fact that it has taken this long to fill the position is worrisome.

However, now that it is filled the incumbent can take control of the monitoring of intelligence and counter intelligence activities of the State Security Agency and the intelligence divisions of the SA Police Service and the national Defence Force.

The independence of the Office of the Inspector-General of Intelligence, IGI, is paramount.
Its human and capital resources should have no link to the SSA, for example, all UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 83 information technology, IT, hardware for the office is currently sourced and provided by the SSA.

Chairperson, the incumbent, Rev Chikane, is a fit and proper person with appropriate level of knowledge of the intelligence services which will enable him to perform his oversight role with all due diligence.
His past role as an activist and veteran struggle leader against the abolishing of apartheid as well as being a committed member of the ANC, stand him in good stead.

But here is the caveat the only partisanship he can now hold will be to the people of South Africa, the rule of law and our constitutional democracy.

Chairperson, there is no doubt that Rev Chikane has a challenging road ahead of him.

Intelligence services are operating at their lowest ebb.
There is clear lack of leadership and this will require competent oversight by an individual with a prior knowledge of the intelligence services realm to prepare.

This is exactly what Rev Chikane brings to the table.

The IFP supports the nomination of Rev Chikane to the position of Inspector-General of Intelligence.

I thank you, Chairperson.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 84 Mr W W WESSELS: House Chairperson, Voltaire said: “History never repeats itself.
Man always does.” The intelligence structure was abused prior to 1994 - terribly.

Then during the Mbeki era, it was also abused.

During the last nine years, it was also abused.

It is each of our responsibility to prevent the mistakes from reoccurring.

The member from the ANC is correct that the IGI should be impartial and thus the FF Plus cannot support this appointment.

I thank you.
I thank you.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, the Office of the Inspector- General of Intelligence is very important as it monitors all operations of the intelligence services of South Africa which include the State Security Agencies and so on.

Its function is primarily important as it seeks to look at complaints from the public as well as the abuses of the Constitution and the intelligence laws by intelligent services.
For the longest period, especially in the past 20 years, the intelligence services of South Africa have been abused and used to advance he factional causes and battles of the ANC.

We want to state that it is our view that the state Security Services is not there in order for it to be used by the dominating faction of the ruling party, but rather to serve the state and the people of South Africa.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 85 Yes, we have reservations and concerns about the fact that a younger perhaps more energetic person could have been chosen, but we are of the view that Rev Frank Chikane is a man of integrity who will be able to discharge his responsibilities in this new assignment with distinction.

We support the report and the nomination.

Thank you, Chair.

Mr V ZUNGULA: Chair, can I sit down as I am still to talk this month.
It is hardly five minutes from concluding a youth debate.

A 71-year-old who have been in government since the 90s is proposed to be appointed as an Inspector-General of Intelligence.

This shows how the ruling party talks left and walks right.

We can’t keep recycling the same people over and over again whereas we have a have a big pool of young talent and expertise in our country.

This position requires a person who does not have baggage and who does not have ties with the ruling party.
We reject this proposal.

Thank you.

Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, we support the nomination.

Thank you.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House Chairperson, I stand here in support of the report on the Standing Committee on Intelligence for the nomination of Rev UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 86 Frank Chikane to be the Inspector-General of Intelligence.
We also wish that the hon members of this House, who represent the people of South Africa through their political parties will support this noble nomination of a loyal South African to the position of the Inspector-General.

Hon House Chairperson, the matter of security is critical for the socioeconomic development of our country.

In the recent past, our country has experienced some instabilities that have to put the question of capacity and ability to the state to ensure stability.
In addition to this, the President has appointed the High Level Review Panel on state security.

Amongst other things the High Level Review Panel was tasked with the objective of enabling the reconstruction of the professional national intelligence capacity for South Africa that will respect and uphold the Constitution and the relevant legislative prescripts.
Amongst the recommendation of the High Level Review Panel is an urgent measure to be put in place to ensure compliance by the intelligence services with the White Paper and the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 87 legislative prescripts on intelligence co-ordination with consequences of noncompliance.

Furthermore, the expert panel on the July unrests, also emphasised the observation made by the High Level Review Panel Report.
The expert panel emphasised on the central role of the National Intelligence Co-ordinating Committee, Nicoc, in strategic intelligence co-ordination.

When the Joint Standing Co-ordination on Intelligence conducted its process of identifying a suitable candidate to be nominated for a position of the Inspector-General we were informed by the High Level Panel Report.

Rev Frank Chikane is still a South African, whose commitment and loyalty to our nation is without question.
Rev Chikane is a patriot who paid a price of our freedom like many of our compatriots.

He brings a wealth of knowledge and experience in the public service having served as a Director-General in the Office of former President Thabo Mbeki and being the Secretary of Cabinet.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 88 And, in his capacity, he also had a responsibility to lead the Forum of SA Director-General.
This means that co-ordination has been central to Rev Frank Chikane’s work in the state.

His experience in negotiations, conflict resolution, mediation and peace-making put him in good stead to steer the intelligence services of our country in the right direction.

Our country and its people need to be safe and secure.

The safety of our people, the integrity of our state and the defence of our territory are what define nationhood.
We have confidence in Rev Frank Chikane and we know, he will not disappoint us.

Hon House Chairperson, I want to say that age is nothing, but just a number.

Hon House Chairperson the position of the Inspector-General cannot be given to a young person because if you do that the country will ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon members!

Order!
Order!

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 89 The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORRITY PARTY: If that position is given to a young person, the country will be sold for 15 cents in the next minute.

Hon House Chairperson, the opposition of the appointment of Rev Chikane ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon members!

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION PARTY: ... is an opposition to ethical conduct!
It is an opposition to experience, impartiality, loyalty and commitment!

Rev Chikane, is one person who is not afraid to challenge authority.

If he believes that what you are doing is wrong, he will challenge you for that.

Yes, he did say that he was encouraged by the elders who are vocal about some of us in the ANC about the leaders of the ANC who are doing wrong!

They are vocal to point out that this is wrong.

There is nothing wrong with a person who is well-known by civil society!
There is nothing wrong about that!

There is no one in this planet Earth, whom you will find not to be associated with anything or anyone!

There is no such thing!

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 90 So, your opposition to his appointment, you are opposing a person who is loyal to South Africa and not to the party!

Rev Chikane is I may tell you about him, he excelled in the interviews!

Everyone who was watching knows that!

We have no doubt!
We have no doubt!

He has experience, he has loyalty to the country!

His loyalty is to the country and not to the ANC!

So, as the ANC, we support the nomination of Rev Frank Chikane as the Inspector-General of Intelligence!

So, the opposition parties, your opposing to this is because of your hatred and you do not want honest people to serve this country.

He is a man of the cloth, loyal to South Africa and not individuals!

Hon House Chairperson, I thank you.


Question put: That the nomination of Rev F Chikane for appointment as Inspector-General of Intelligence be approved.

Division demanded.

The House divided.


THE DETERMINATION OF THE SPEAKER UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 91 (Announcement) House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick announced that the Speaker had determined that, in accordance with the rules, a manual voting procedure would be used and that the whips would conduct a headcount of members in the chamber and on the virtual platform for the purpose of ascertaining quorum and voting.
A quorum being present in terms of Rule 98(1), voting commenced.

AYES – 232: (ANC – 218; IFP – 10; UDM – 1; Good – 2; AIC – 1).

NOES – 113: (DA – 73; EFF – 29; FF Plus – 8; ACDP – 3).

The majority required in terms of section 7(1) of the Intelligence Services Oversight Act 40 of 1994 not obtained.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House Chairperson, as a leader in my own right, I want to humbly, apologise to the youth of this country, because when you are standing here on the podium debating something that is very UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 92 critical to the country, you end up saying things that you do not mean.

[Applause.]
[Applause.]

I want to withdraw what I said in my speech that if the position is given to a young person, the country will be sold for 15 cents.

I withdraw that statement and regret what I have said.

Thank you very much.

[Applause.]

IsiZulu: Nks N P SONTI: Uyakhula!

Uyakhula!


CONSIDERATION OF SECOND REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INDUSTRY ON REQUEST BY MINISTER OF TRADE, INDUSTRY AND COMPETITION TO RECOMMEND SUITABLE CANDIDATES FOR APPOINTMENT AS CHAIRPERSON OF BOARD OF NATIONAL LOTTERIES COMMISSION Ms J HERMANS: Thank you very much, House Chair.
In terms of section 3 of the Lotteries Act the member contemplated in section 3 1(a) of the Act, the chairperson, shall be appointed only after the Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition, amongst others, and the relevant committee of the National Assembly has made the recommendations to the Minister in relation thereto after a transparent and open process of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 93 considering person so nominated having due regard to the functions of the board.
The Minister has done that in November 2020 when he submitted a request to the National Assembly for a recommendation on suitable candidates for the appointment of the chairperson of the National Lotteries Commission, NLC.

In his initial request he submitted a short list of names of candidates for the committee’s consideration.
However, as the committee takes its oversight responsibilities seriously over the department and its entities, he sorts guidance on whether it was the prerogative of the Minister to submit a shortlist of names to the committee for consideration, or whether the Ministers required to submit all names submitted by the public to the National Assembly and for the committee to determine a shortlist of candidates so nominated to be interviewed by the committee.
After receiving the necessary legal guidance, that it was the prerogative of the committee to shortlist candidates to be interviewed, it requested that the Minister submits all the curriculum vitae of all candidates, which he duly complied with.

The committee duly proceeded to shortlist candidates to be interviewed for the position of chairperson of the board of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 94 the National Lotteries Commission.
These interviews were held on 09 March 2021, with the committee submitting its Report on the recommendation to the Minister of names of suitable candidates for his consideration.

The committee adopted its initial Report on the 12 March 2021.

However, in terms of National Assembly Rule 35(1) the Report lapsed on the last sitting day of the National Assembly for the 2021 annual session.

We were also subsequently informed that one of the candidates for consideration had unfortunately passed away.
The National Assembly revived the Report on the 22 March 2022 and referred it back to the committee for consideration and report.

In light of the above, the committee resolved to add the names of Reverend Frank Chikane and Mr T Dlamini to the list, add to the list already submitted to Parliament and to submit it to the National Assembly for consideration.

I thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

Declarations of vote: Mr M J CUTHBERT: Thank you very much, House Chair.
Hon House Chairperson, the Democratic Alliance has been fighting with Parliament to get the first iteration of this Report to be UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 95 considered since it was on Announcements, Tabling and Committee, ACT, report on 17 March 2021.

The second iteration comes almost one year and three months later.

The former board chairperson, fake professor and prolific looter, Alfred Nevhutanda’s term ended on 30 November 2020.
This means that a scandal ridden entity like the National Lotteries Commission, NLC, has been without leadership for almost one year and six months.

For the sake of accuracy, let us look at how the African National Congress and its incapacitated deployees in ministerial office has derailed this process.
It starts off with Minister Patel contravening the legislation which guards this process in late 2020 by putting forward the names of three candidates to the portfolio committee to consider, instead, the legal advice sought at the time by the DA and Parliament stated that the committee was to undertake the process of selecting 3 candidates and then recommending them to the Minister.

It should be noted that this left the ANC members in the portfolio committee in a total state of disarray.
Moving on, the portfolio committee then decided that the process should rightly be guarded by the legislation and the series of meetings were held to determine the interview criteria as well UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 96 as the shortlisting.
Despite the DA having appealed to the committee that it should carefully consider our crafted recommendations it put forward to ensure that they didn’t get another dud for it all, Chairperson, the ANC using its parliamentary majority, rejected them in their entirety.

In addition, the DA argued that we should attempt to conclude the interview process and the shortlisting of candidates by the end of December 2020.

However, the ANC opted for the beach towels and their flip flops instead.
In the intervening period Minister Patel attempted to appoint his ministerial appointee to the board, Ms Zandile Brown, as the acting chairperson of the National Lotteries Commission.

The DA objected to this in the National Lotteries Commission board took her to court and it got set aside.

Eventually in February 2021, the process to shortlist, interview and select three candidates for referral to the Minister began.
We agreed as the committee to interview six candidates of which three would be referred to the Minister.

The interviews despite having been long and arduous, went off without a hitch until we got to the toss of deciding upon three names that would be sent to the Minister.

The DA argued that the three high scoring candidates should be submitted.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 97 However, we had a concern with the late Dr Muthuhadini Madzivhandila, who has not only served on the board as the Chairperson of Human Capital, Social and Ethics, while the industrial scale looting of the National Lotteries Commission has taken place, but the outer organisation flagged him for having had a conflict of interest as a grant beneficiary, which he failed to disclose.
We raised this as a reason for his exclusion from the list of three to be submitted to the Minister, but the ANC in the infinite wisdom, decided to proceed.

To cut a long story short, he decided to take me to court to defamation, siting at my exposure of his life, it means that his partner would potentially not marry him and his children were disappointed in him.

After we found the replying affidavit detailing how he lied to both the public and Parliament his lawsuit conveniently went away.
Fast forward to today and we sit with a report that only partly reflects the will of the committee.

As stated earlier, we agreed to submit the three names on the basis of scoring and rightfully Mr Tselane, Mr Dlamini and Doctor Pityana should be on that list but not Mr Chikane, who you are trying to recycle as cadre.
I suppose this explains UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 98 why this matter was brought before the ANC Cadre Deployment Committee on 09 November 2020 as revealed at the Zondo Commission.

A delay in the process run by the ANC can always be attributed to one of two things; one, pure incompetence and two, nefarious motives.

Thus far, the Special Investigating Unit has uncovered R300 million worth of corruption in the 12 of the 50 cases it has investigated.
One can only imagine that this will run into the billions once the Special Investigating Unit have concluded their work.

The fact of the matter is that the ANC closely ...

[Inaudible.]

... while the monies meant for grannies, the sick and marginalised communities were stolen.

And that’s the truth.

I thank you.

Ms Y N YAKO: House Chairperson, from the onset as the EFF we must say that the National Lottery Commission, NLC has...[Interjection.].

Mr A H M PAPO: On point of order, House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon may you just take your seat.

Why are you rising hon Papo?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 99 Mr A H M PAPO: I am rising as a follow up to the request you made to all of us.

That in the House we should were mask.

MeMakhawula since she arrived in the House, she’s never worn a mask.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon order, hon members just wear your mask please.

Hon Khawula, there’s no discussion around this matter.
Please wear your mask and it applies to everyone, it applies to everyone.

Please continue hon member.

Ms N Y YAKO: Thank you House Chairperson, I also take don’t kindly to hon Cuthbert not being interrupted, but myself being interrupted, I don’t think it’s ok.

However, House Chair, we must on the onset note that the NLC had no chairperson for more than two years now.

A vacuum the that has left the entity with a hole that has never to be led to poor governance, corruption and a leaderless institution.
In 2021 the committee deliberated extensively on how many names before they took consideration.

Based on scoring and the quality of the interview, it was decided, it will be three names.

Now, that is not the premise of where we come from.
We are coming from the premise that we took this initiative of starting to appoint and to nominate the chairperson of the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 100 board, the person whose is going to be the Chairperson for the NOC, at a very long age in 2020 and here we are now.

And for me its’s disappointing that we have to sit and deliberate on names, while we should be sitting and deliberating on the quality of leadership that we want in the NLC.
For starters, when we first initiated, it was decided that the Minister, will then be the one appointing the shortlist for the candidates to go to the NLC and we disputed as the EFF.

And, we wrote to the Speaker to say no it can’t be.

The committee should be the one to facilitate the process of nomination.

And, thus hence where we are now.


We went through a very transparent process in 2021, and ended up with three names which we agreed as a committee and those names were: Mr Tselane, Dr Madibandlela and Mr T Dlamini.
And we must remember that the consensus that we met the ACDP, because it was the ACDP who came with the name of Rev Pityana or Dr Pityana and the only reason why as a committee we decided to go with that name was because there’s only one more score difference between the third and the fourth person.

And UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 101 hence we decided, no it’s okay, as a committee we will make a consensus and we say it’s okay, we include a fourth name.
Now, it’s very surprising that in the later stages, when Dr Madibandlela is late and we need to nominate three people, which initially, as a committee we decided on.

We then ...

[Inaudible.]

... on that and we say one fourth name and it’s even more disappointing that the fourth name is that of Rev Chikane.
And, it is not personal, but it is a fact that when we were ... during the interviews, Rev Chikane arrived in a meeting, arrived in his interview, looking very lacklustre, he looked bored, he looked like he was forced to do the interview.

He was not interested; he was very condescending and that is the reason why he scored less than even the fourth person on the list for the nomination of the NLC.

And that the basis of why we feel that he was actually asked to go to that interview.
And it also informs the reason why the ANC now has come in the back foot and decided that now they want to include him as a fourth name.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 102 We must state that we as the EFF, are not behind that.

We reject his name; we reject the ...

[Inaudible.]

... it deserves [Applause.]

What the ANC is doing now, it seeks to undermine the law and to undermine our oversight as the committee and appoint Rev Chikane without due process.
It seeks to rubberstamp some misguided and corrupt attempt to impose this person as a Chairperson of National Lottery Commission.

The EFF wrote to the Speaker of the National Assembly to demand that there should be an explanation as to why Rev Chikane’s name is irregularly led and added to the list.

It was the EFF that added and provided key guidance and leadership on this matter, when the ANC wanted to take short cuts in the first place, using Minister Patel.
It was the EFF that insisted a transparent process of the interviews.

It is the EFF that will make sure that due process is followed.

The EFF supports the name of Mr T Tselane, Mr T Dlamini and Dr Pityana.

We do not support the name of Frank Chikane and his name must be removed from the Report to the President.

Thank you [Applause.]


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 103 Ink R N CEBEKHULU: House Chairperson, the National Lottery Commission has a critical function as a national regulator to lotteries and sports pools.

The commission is mandated to ensure that all are lotteries are connected with transparency, due propriety and importantly it must ensure that all participants are adequately protected.
It therefore vital that the Chairperson who lead in this commission must lead with integrity and ensure the commission fulfils its mandate, especially as the commission as grant funder, is mandated to enrich the lives of poor South Africans.

The NLC, however has been plagued by serious allegations of corruption ...

[Inaudible.]

... to Parliament in March this year.

It has been revealed that a former board member received over R5,4 million in his personal account from various non- profit organizations.
Approximately allegations relating to ...

[Inaudible.]

... unqualified beneficiaries and by this shocking revelations and we will closely monitor the Special Investigating Unit, SIU’s progress on phase two of the investigation.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 104 On consideration of the Report by the portfolio committee, the IFP believes that due process was followed by the committee in monitoring candidates, for the position of the Chairperson of the Board of the NLC.
Recommendations were made on suitable candidates for the Chairperson of the Board of the NLC.

And, it is unfortunate that the initial report of the committee lapsed on the last sitting day of the National Assembly for the year 2021 annual session.

The Report of the committee was however revived in March 2022 [Interjection.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, please switch off your microphone, hon Muthambi.

Continue hon Cebekhulu.


Ink R N CEBEKHULU: Thank you, it was revived in March 2022, and the IFP supports the committee’s recommendation.

In conclusion, the IFP accepts the committee’s Report, but we however remain highly concern about the leadership and stability of the NLC.

We remain resolute that former members UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 105 who have grossly abuse the NLC funds and enrich themselves must be prosecuted.

The IFP accepts the Report.

Thank you.


Mr F J MULDER: House Chair, hon members, the National Lottery Commission, is the only national regulator of lotteries and sports pools in South Africa.

The National Lottery Board is mandated to guarantee that the interests of all parties ...

[Inaudible.]

... in lotteries are protected.

And ensure that all lotteries are conducted in due propriety.

House Chair regardless ...

[Inaudible.]


... controls, the Former Chairperson of the National Lottery Board, Prof Alfred Nevhutanda refused to resign after he has been involved controversy of the National Lottery Commission was involved by ongoing reports of corruption, nepotism and maladministration.
The Chair of the Commission whose term was due to expire in November 2020, was extended for another year by hon Minister Patel after the showdown when the hon Minister announced settlement with Prof Nevhutanda.
House Chair, the Special Investigating Unit, recently revealed that as we heard, before the portfolio committee that the officials of the National Lottery Commission allegedly UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 106 misappropriated state funds due to their own value in several occasions ...

[Inaudible.]

... an amount of R300 million during their term of office.
Until recently the National Lotteries Board enjoyed the protection of the ANC- dominated portfolio committee before hon Minister Patel lost his patience and intervene by dissolving the board before its expiring date, at the end of March 2022.

House Chair, the Report of the Committee lapsed from the last sitting day of the National Assembly, last year 2021 and had to be revived again.

Has the ANC committee learnt any lessons from mistakes of the past ...

[Inaudible.]
[Inaudible.]

... hon House Chair, request for the ANC-led majority of the committee to add a name of Rev Chikane, the less should be rejected.

The previous Chair, Pro Nevhutanda was appointed as a NLC Board Chairperson in 2009 under the presidency of Jacob Zuma.

He was also a former Chairperson of the ANC in Limpopo and was one of the key fund raisers for the ANC’s 2009 election campaign in Limpopo.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 107 The FF Plus voted against the adoption of the Report in the committee and will do so today.

Hon House Chair, the mere continuation of the ANC cadre deployment should stop.

Thank you House Chair.


Mr S H MBUYANE: Thank you very much, Chair of Chairs, leadership, Comrades, the second Report on Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, the ANC vision of the South African economy is guided by the Freedom Charter in particular the injunction that the people shall share in the country’s wealth.
This informs the ANC commitment to managing the South African economy, not only in the manner that is growing, enhancing but ensure that the pace and pattern of growth is inclusive and transform our society.

We have made sufficient and advanced to transform the lives of our people through amongst other things the access to water, housing and sanitation.

Many of these advances have been made by government and private sector.
The National Lotteries Commission, NLC, has over the years granted communities the ability to take up the ownership and own community issues find practical solutions to them without wanting the hand of government.

Consequently, many communities have benefited directly and indirectly from the web and the UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 108 support of the NLC.
This is what the national democratic revolution calls for and our community to be active citizens and take responsibility for their own lives and future.

Since the dawn of the COVID-19 pandemic on our shores that resulted in a lockdown which pushed the nation and global community with a new economic reality.

The ...

[Inaudible.]

nation and graphene with efforts to bring economic back to track while balancing risk and patience pandemic.
The obvious domino effect on organisation such as the National Lottery Commission are an increase demand for funding as sources of relief dry up.

As a result, the stability of the NLC becomes ever more important.

The NLC has been instrumental in alleviating the negative effect of pandemic in a poor household and poverty Western since the beginning of the pandemic and the NLC was there to provide the necessary support needed and the most vulnerable in our society.
Therefore, the National Lotteries Commission beside overseeing lotteries, it plays a critical role in socioeconomic transformation programme in our society.

We are also witnessing the human and developmental role the NLC is playing in the aftermath of the flood in KZN, Eastern Cape and North West.

This has enhanced the ability of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 109 government to provide the necessary relief needed by those who are affected by the floods.
It is disheartening and people of South Africa must know that some of us, in this House, do not want the NLC to be fully functional so it could optimally support the work of the ANC-led government to transform the society in the interest of the South Africa.

The wish of everything to fall apart so that they can govern the ashes of our country.

As the ANC congress, we will never allow this.


We have a history and revolutionary tasks to transform society and create a better life for all, particularly the poor and the working class.

The NLC Board has been without a permanent Board since November 2020.

When a term of the previous Chairperson came to an end the position has not been filled since.

The ANC welcomes the recommendation made by the suitable candidate to the National Lotteries Commission for the appointment of the Chairperson.
We believe the recommendations have been necessary skilled and also the expertise and experience to take the NLC to a new and a greater height as we construct our economic and reconstruction which is inclusive and developmental.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 110 We wish to make an unequivocally clear that the ANC is fully in support of the work of the Special Investigating Unit as it relates to exposing and rooting out corruption in the NLC.
Corruption is a serious cancer in our society and is destroying the moral fight of our society.

We are not constructing our economy because ...

[Interjections.]

Mr B A RADEBE (Point of order): I am rising on Rule 84, Mr Cuthbert has said hon Mbuyane is lying.

Its unparliamentarily The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Cuthbert, I heard that remark.

You must withdraw it.

Mr M J CUTHBERT: Chair, I didn’t say he was lying I said he’s last, but I will withdraw for the sake of progress.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, please continue member.

Mr S H MBUYANE: No, hon Cuthbert.

We call on the SIU to ensure that they recover every money that is lost in corruption and hold the perpetrator accountable.

In the ANC, we expect the new Board to exhibit high moral ethics, and for they must know that they serve the people of South Africa and not serving UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 111 themselves.
The people of South Africa are placing their trust in them to contribute towards tackling the triple challenge of poverty, unemployment and inequality.

In the African National Congress, we therefore support the Report and recommending candidates to the position of the Board.
Chairperson, I think I have to address hon Cuthbert in this regard because coming here with that hon of EFF and claiming “we, the EFF we’re the only ones that corrected the committee, we the DA we’re the ones who corrected the committee.” This policy and this government is the government of the ANC.

If you want to correct or mandate anything you have to go outside there, win elections and come back and instruct us what to do.

[Interjectons.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!
Mr K CEZA: We’ll collapse you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Ceza!

Hon member, will you just take your seat.

Hon members, no, no!

Hon Cuthbert!

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 112 UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: This is the government of the people not the government of the ANC.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Who recognised you?

Who recognised you, hon member?

You can’t just grab the microphone and start making interjections.
I will ask the Whips of the EFF to please explain to the hon member that they must be recognised.

The same applies to the hon Cuthbert, you must be recognised hon member.

Maybe you must go back to the basics in terms of the Rules.

Also the members on the platform - hon Ceza, you can’t just switch on your microphone.

You can’t do that.

Hon member, complete your speech.

Please continue.

Mr S H MBUYANE: Thank you very much, Chair.


As I was saying they must go and win elections before they come and instruct.

[Interjections.]

What you can do now we will be appointing the Board, the chairperson of the Board of the NLC and we are supporting the NLC to move and change the pillars of the situation because now we have people that are starving outside, the NGOs are looking for people to get something to help and now we want to strong the position of the NLC.
Now we are saying we are taking forward this position and we are UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 113 moving with or without you – are going to make it.

Today, it’s our day.

[Applause.]

Viva!

The CHIEF OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: What are you saying, Sonti, the government of the people, for the people, by the people.

[Laughter.]

Thank you very much, hon House Chair, I move that the Report be adopted.

Thank you.

Question put.

Objections noted.

Motion agreed to.


Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Please note the objection of the recycled pensioner.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, I don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

What is your objection?

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: We are objecting to the Report.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 114 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you.

There are no further objections and the report is thus agreed to.
Hon members I will now suspend the proceedings until 2:pm and wish to remind members that we will continue with the debate.

As urgent matter of national importance in the name of hon Mileham on Fuel price hikes at 14:00 this afternoon the House will be rung to alert members to the resumption of business and business is now suspended.

There was no debate.


Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party and African National Congress.

The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting) Report accordingly adopted.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 115 BUSINESS SUSPENDED AT 12:50 AND RESUMED AT 14:00.

FUEL PRICE HIKES (Matter of Public Importance) Mr K J MILEHAM: Deputy Speaker, today, the people of South Africa are watching us closely.

We are here with the sole purpose to slash fuel prices.

That is what the people of South Africa demand, and that is what this Parliament must do.
We are not here today to hear excuses about the global conditions, Russia’s unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, government mistakes or ANC spin.

We are here to slash fuel prices, based on what government can do.

The only question we have to ask is – and what we have to ask to the ANC is, are you here today to slash fuel prices too?
Allow me to quote something you may recognize: The ill-considered and uncaring decision to increase the petrol price only confirms that the government does not have the interests of the majority of South Africans, who are poor and struggling desperately to make ends meet, at heart.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 116 This statement was issued by the ANC in September 1993, against the evil apartheid government.

Today, the ANC government is guilty of exactly the same thing.
So I ask again, are you here today to slash fuel prices, as South Africa is demanding that you do?

Let’s start with a few facts.

Our government adds more than a third on to the basic fuel price in the form of taxes and levies.

The ANC government do this, to quote Tim Cohen in Daily Maverick, because fuel taxes are “difficult to avoid and easy to collect.” These taxes include a R3,93 per litre general fuel levy and a R21,8 per litre Road Accident Fund levy.

Difficult to Avoid, and Easy to Collect.


Essentially for the ANC government, road users are easy prey to tax hard, and tax often.

But South Africa has reached the end of its tether with this daylight robbery.

Yesterday, the DA handed over a petition to the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Energy, calling on them to implement the proposals that the DA has been putting forward to address the sky-rocketing fuel price.
Our petition garnered more than 130 000 signatures and comments online, making it one of the largest ever submitted to Parliament.

Signatories had the chance to leave personal messages, as they pledged UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 117 their support for this debate, and for the demand to slash fuel prices.

Just a few comments illustrate the general sentiment.

Dean Boy said: Let’s stop the fuel tax rip-off.


It is time for government to cut the exorbitant taxes on fuel in order to lower the price.

People are suffering due to the costs of living.

Yezdi Phiroz stated: Government must stop burdening the fuel prices with their taxes.

Sello Kumako, noted: The ANC government must cut the exorbitant taxes on fuel.

If not, the poorest will suffer more on food and other basic materials.
So the DA, hereby formally table our simple, practical and implementable proposals to slash fuel prices.

For starters, let’s get rid of the R3,93 per litre general fuel levy, because it has nothing to do with fuel.

It is just “difficult UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 118 to avoid, and easy to collect.” That money goes straight into the Treasury and adds about R90 billion to the big pot of money that funds corruption and mismanagement.
If we scrap that, government will be forced to be more frugal in their expenditure.

Perhaps we can get rid of R22 million flagpoles, R350 million donations to Cuba, inflated contracts, captured entities, a bloated Cabinet, expensive Ministers and deputies, and all other unnecessary and frivolous expenses.

Maybe we can cut out the R1,8 billion spent on VIP protection for Ministers who are driven around in fancy vehicles at taxpayer expense and don’t feel the effects of a fuel price increase.
It is estimated that this government loses R300 billion a year to corruption.

That amount can cover the R90 billion collected annually from the general fuel levy, more than three times over.

The second thing we must do is reform the Road Accident Fund levy.

The RAF is a cesspool of mismanagement, and every litre of fuel purchased is paying for that.

Our demand is that the R2,18 RAF levy be cut, for all road users who can prove that they have a valid, comprehensive third-party insurance.
Stop forcing them to pay for insurance UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 119 twice.

Instead, give them a tax rebate through SARS, claimable on their annual tax returns on their fuel purchases.

These two steps would cut R6,11 per litre.

But the DA’s comprehensive plan demand doesn’t end there.

The third thing we must do is to deregulate our fuel sector.
Maybe another quote from the ANC’s own mouth will help: Government intends to move away from price control on fuel with the achievement of suitable transitional milestones and arrangements.

Control of industry margins, at wholesale and retail level will be removed and thereafter will be determined on a competitive and commercial basis.

This one comes from the 1998 White Paper on Energy, under this ANC government, 24 years ago.

If the ANC fails to implement this - as it has – we will do it for them.
The DA will shortly be introducing a Private Member’s Bill to amend section 2 of the Petroleum Products Act.

Now the purpose of this Bill is to deregulate the fuel sector to increase competition, both at wholesale and retail level.

Let fuel retailers and fuel stations compete on price, subject only to a maximum regulated price, and thereby driving prices down.
And before anyone UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 120 suggests that this is going to result in job losses for pump attendants, please note that we are not proposing amending that section of the Act which prohibits self-service retail outlets.

Deputy Speaker, this debate is not a DA fight, but the fight of every South African.
The DA is proud to announce that we have the support of key role-players from various sectors in our proposals; they are long distance freight and logistics providers, truckers, a number of individual truck owners and fleet truck operators, the touring and transfer bus sector, aviation entities, the intercity bus sector; and the taxi industry.

Failing to act on our proposals will be a slap in all of their faces.
That is why we call on all political parties represented here to join these sectors, which form the foundation of our economy, and the more than 130 000 people who have signed our petition, to support our proposals to reduce the price.

Let’s stop feeding the beast of ANC corruption with unaffordable fuel taxes.

Slash fuel prices now!

Thank you, Chair.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 121 Mr S LUZIPO: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC government, I am not sure whether I should say the ANC government, because I was told that it is the government of the people, which means, the government of the ANC is the government of the people.
The ANC government is faced with daunting challenges, complex, or at the same time, very much demanding, in dealing with the current on-price shock.

Therefore, the debate on fuel price hike, is certainly important, not because the hon member, Milleham, has called for it, but due to its importance for the poor motorists, the households, as well as mall enterprises who face serious hardship in the daily increasing costs during this difficult period.
I must say, hon Deputy Speaker, it is important just to borrow from Thomas Sowell, a liberal American economist who says, I quote, “politics is the art of making your selfish desired seemed to be national interest.” It is quite important that, when we deal with the sensitive matter in a serious matter of this nature, we also try and not use it as a matter of a political football.

But thanks to hon Milleham, because I believe it is genuine what you have presented to the House.
Hon Deputy Speaker, it is very UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 122 important that, when we deal with this, we start from the premise that, I’m not sure whether we are not offside.
The Committee on Mineral Resources and Energy started engaging on this matter as early as April 14 2021 on a briefing by the Auto Mobile Association of SA, as well as the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy, having done consultation with most of the stakeholders, informed by the fact that, by virtue of being Members of Parliament, it does not grant us an authority of possessing natural wisdom to the challenges facing our communities and our people.
It is those basis, therefore, that we wanted to ensure that, every process that we go through, it is a process that is consultative enough that stakeholders will be able to make ownership of.

It was therefore, a report adopted on 10 April.

As early as 7 June, the committee started to work on action plans, including consultation and meetings with the Portfolio Committee on Finance, simply because, the issue of fuel prices must be understood in the context that, it has got overlapping mandates.
It affects transport, it is also based on tax determination by the National Treasury.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 123 So, I think that it is important that we start from that point.
I must use this platform for a good and a necessary lobbying, that will require that the reports of the portfolio committee by the National Association of Primary Care, NAPC, be prioritised, so that it can find its way through to this House, including its observations and recommendations, be debated as a platform that I would say, it addresses the need for every party to feel that it has made its contribution.

I think that is the first point that one would like to start on.
But, one of the things that for me is important is that, the issue of the petrol hikes cannot be associated with one solution.

Otherwise, ... IsiXhosa: ... siya kuba sidliswa uzifo-zonke.

English: So, it’s important to understand that there are many solutions that can be found, and amongst those, the portfolio committee has made particular recommendations, and I don’t think that they are far from most of us may agree.
One of those is moving, rather than scrapping the Road Accident Fund, RAF, from the fuel price, either like what the Minister of Finance UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 124 has said, that it should form part of social security or form part of social insurance, or it be moved to the Department of Transport.

We need to review the 15% premium on freight which was introduced to fuel price to minimise the risk that was made by the apartheid government.
Thirdly, increasing the import share of oil and petroleum products from other African countries in order to minimise shipping costs, implementing those recommendations, will therefore allow South Africans from all walk of life to feel that they are able to mitigate against the fuel hikes.
Hon Deputy Speaker, we must deal with the issue of fuel hikes as a collective, not spontaneously, for an example, what hon Milleham has proposed as measures that the ANC government should implement to reduce the burden of fuel hikes for consumers.

Since he is convinced that the ANC government is ...

[Inaudible.]
[Inaudible.]

... it’s important also to note that, there are many other alternative sources that can be considered including, biomass fuel, which is something that the Centre for Social Science Research, CSSR, has also raised as a point for consideration.
Hon Deputy Speaker, the all industry is a capital intensive low margin industry risen by high volume UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 125 sales for economies of scale in our country, whose market demand is equivalent to the Los Angeles areas.

It is not possible to deregulate the market and ensure competition in the normal sense as is the case, with large volume economies like the USA.
Therefore, it is important that, when we make such consideration, we must be able to ensure that we carry all that is necessary.

Lastly on this matter, Deputy Speaker, we request that the two Ministers, who is Finance and Mineral Resources and Energy, expedite the investment in refining, as it positively contributes to beneficiation and manufacture, but also with the effect of reducing the impact of the balance of payment in dollar terms for our country.
I think that it is important to make this last point that, we can’t have the one size fits all.

The issue of fuel and petrol hikes is a complex matter.

By the way, if you look in terms of integrated energy plan, amongst other issues, in order to build productive sectors of the economy, is the new developments, in terms of electric vehicles.

Any comprehensive strategy that does not table new phenomenon on board, it is flawed.
It cannot be comprehensive, because what is new in the auto industry, is that there are electric vehicles that by UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 126 manufacturing, if we were to manufacture or assemble the majority of them in South Africa, it will be something that is not related to the fuel hikes.

Therefore, any comprehensive strategy must take that to the longer period.

Hon Deputy Speaker, we raised those issues.


Just one point again from Sowell, “It is hard to imagine a more stupid or a more dangerous way of making decisions by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.” We’ve got a duty and a responsibility that, we cannot make any mistake, because the people are looking forward, from the leadership of the people’s movement.

Therefore, we take responsibility for failures, hence we must avoid them now.

Thank you very much.


The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.

When the DA removes the ANC from national government in 2024, we will slash the petrol price by R6 per litre.

We will slash it by cutting fuel prices and fuel taxes and by deregulating the fuel market.

We will slash it because we actually care about the people who are struggling to make ends meet.
The reality is that not every South African has a couple of million dollars shoved under a couch at home that will enable them to weather the coming winter of discontent.

We UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 127 care, unlike the hon Luzipo that workers can barely afford the taxi fare to get to work, and those without work can’t afford to go out and look for work.
Government petrol price increases have pushed the food prices up dramatically all because they agree and because they now need to understand that their tax is more important than the food price to ordinary South Africans.

They have also driven up that cost because the rail system under the ANC has collapsed entirely, which means that the majority of the food in South Africa is transported by road and therefore goes up when the petrol price goes up.
When the DA removes the ANC from national government in 2024, we will slash fuel prices to bring down the cost of food.

Yes, hon Koornhof, you told us we were dreaming about Tshwane, Johannesburg and Nelson Mandela Bay and every other municipality where you have been kicked out of office.

The DA cares when parents and grandparents have to look into the eyes of hungry children every night ...

[Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Can I rise on a point of order.

I need ...

[Inaudible.]


... because I am sitting right UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 128 here and I can’t hear.

So, if you could you just ask the House to have a little bit of a decorum.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: All of you, including in your ranks should have some decorum.

Go ahead, hon member.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: The DA cares when parents and grandparents have to look into the eyes of hungry children to tell them that there is nothing for supper.
The DA cares when school children have to study on empty stomachs and when millions are suffering from childhood stunting because of lack of food.

Honestly, hon Luzipo, your economic platitudes and jargons mean absolutely nothing to those parents who cannot put food on the table.

We will do so because we care about jobs and we understand that jobs come from a healthy economy and businesses that are thriving and creating jobs.

And they are created when you reduce the input costs.
When the DA removes the ANC from national government in 2024, we will slash fuel prices because we know, unlike the ANC, that fuel prices affect the poorest of the poor the most.

Poor families spend the highest proportion of their salaries on transport and food.

Cutting fuel prices will lift millions out of poverty.

Fuel prices are high because government slapped on UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 129 taxes.

One third of the fuel price is taxes that go to government.
Taxes that pay for the incapable and corrupt state.

Six rand per litre is how much more our citizens are paying for petrol more than countries like Botswana.

We have the same problems that the hon Luzipo outlined and they don’t slap on the tax because they understand.

We need to recognise the urgency of the situation now.

We need to slash petrol prices now.

And we can afford to do it.

We can afford to do it if we get tough on corruption – we can afford it.
If we end cadre deployment, we can afford it.

If we slash the VIP protection budget, we can afford it.

If we close failed state- owned entities, we can afford it.

What the ANC can’t afford is to keep on ripping off ordinary South Africans, because we are gatvol [fed up] of having to pay the price for your corruption.
We also need a President in this country who has a full-time focus on running the country, not one eye on his business and one eye on his farm, but full time serving the people of South Africa.

The billionaire President can afford to pack up and leave and go anywhere.

It’s ordinary South Africans who have no choice, we have to make South Africa work.

So, if you care about anything at all on the government benches, cut the fuel price.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 130 Because if you don’t, I would advise you to look at what happened to the Arab Spring.

I would advise you to see what is happening right now in Sri Lanka.

[Interjections.]

And if you don’t do it, I can promise you this, in 2024 the DA is going to do it for you.

Thank you.

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.

Go ahead.


Mr H G APRIL: I just want to check if its parliamentary to say “gatvol” The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon Steenhuisen, that fancy Afrikaans expression is not parliamentary.

Don’t use it, please.

[Interjections.]

No, no, no, Chief Whip, don’t use it as well.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I can tell you, Deputy Speaker that it’s a lot more part of a polite lexicon than the word the President used at this very podium two weeks ago.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, hon member.

No!

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: May I rise on a point of order?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 131 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, what’s your point of order, hon member The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker.

When one looks at that word, it is a colloquial word which means ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no, no!

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

Hon member, you can try that luck with someone else.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I will try ...

[Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, don’t.

It’s unparliamentary and we will rule it as unparliamentary.

[Interjections.]

It’s not okay in gentle House like this one.

If you start using “gatvol” then every member here is going to use other similarly fanciful language.

It is unparliamentary, just be satisfied with that.

[Interjections.]

No, no, we are not debating this.


It is just out of order.

Please hon members, be warned.

We will rule you out of order if you use it.

[Interjections.]

Hon members, order!

Order, hon members, order, order!

The EFF?

Please, hon members of the EFF, we should have had your names here.

Just like the IFP, we don’t have your names here, who is to follow, and similarly the UDM UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 132 and hon members of Cope and the PAC.
Just tell us who is going to debate on your behalf.

We would like to name you when we call you.

[Interjections.]

No, no, no, why do you speak member without being invited?

I am just telling you what we expect of you to do.

This is expected of everyone in the House.

You don’t have to comment on that thing, just save your opinion.

Go ahead, hon member.

Ms P MADOKWE: Thank you, Deputy Speaker.


South Africa’s fuel crisis is not the result of natural forces that are beyond human control - a natural force so big we can throw up our hands in horror and despair.

The symbol throw is that South Africa faces big problems because of unaffordable fuel price hikes.

This is because ANC Ministers and their families, friends and comrades wants to steal as much public money as they can.
When former Minister of Energy, Ms Kubayi admitted that the country’s strategic fuel stock was sold in corrupt secret deal in 2016, the EFF was the only party that said that looters should be arrested, including Tina Joemat-Pettersson.

We said that because we understood that there are shifts and changes in geopolitics and international trends.
But because Glencore and the corrupt criminal syndicates that operate through UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 133 bribes and illicit financial flows was one of the beneficiaries of the loot, no one has been held to account.

It is the same Glencore that benefited Mr Cyril Ramaphosa in deals for political leverage.
We are not shocked by this fuel price increases, because we have warned in the past that government does not have a practical or believable plan to address the rising cost of living in short and medium term, not over the long-term.

To accept the excuse by the government that this increase in petrol, diesel and paraffin are unavoidable because of crude oil prices and rand and dollar exchange.

...

[Inaudible.]
...

[Inaudible.]

... rate is to accept a collective incompetent government in this to accept the ANC’s corrupt government.

It is definitely to an acceptance of the shambolic stage of the mismanaged economy as it normal.

You increase the price of fuel, food, bread, vegetables and prices of all basic necessities.

You increase the price of fuel and transport for school learners and workers - workers whose wages have stagnated for years.
You increase the price of fuel and you kill small businesses which are already struggling.

You increase the price of fuel and leave households without means to cook and keep warm.

More than UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 134 2 million families use paraffin to cook and keep warm during winter because they do not have a choice.
Even if they know that it is highly flammable and taxing, they rely on it and they can now not even afford the only available means within their reach.

This is the reality for many workers and poor households – the reality that many of us here with Ministerial benefits, parliamentary shuttles and free flights will not understand.

The temporary reduction in the fuel levy of R1,50 has brought no meaningful relief to our people.
It is a reactionary and desperate attempt to look as if the government has a plan whereas they are clueless.

To resolve the fuel hike price, we must do the following.

We should fast-track the review of fuel prices and at the centre of this should be the poorest and not businesses.

We must rebuild an increased strategic fuel stocks.

We must stabilise the Central Energy Fund and the fund must be allowed to fund and build state-owned oil refineries.
Any advice contrary to this is not honest and it is motivated by narrow capitalist interests.

It is both foolish and incompetent to depend on more than 60% of fuel imports to meet demand instead of building a reliable refinery industry.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 135 We must reclaim and nationalise Sasol.

We must build state capacity to turn coal into oil and also increase research and development in the biofuel industry.

This government has even been ...


[Inaudible.]

... by young people who have started producing their own fuel with all the resources at its disposal.

These efforts must be maximised and they must be funded.

Lastly, we must do away with the fuel levy with immediate effect.

We know that a corrupt ANC is neither willing nor able to put any solution into action.

The EFF will always be on the side of the workers and the poor and we will take this fight head on.
We know that the ANC President, Mr Ramaphosa, is busy with money laundering and the proceeds of crimes at his farm and he has no business being in government to resolve ...

[Interjections.]

...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member!

You are not allowed to say what you have just said without a substantial motion.

Ms P MADOKWE: Which one am I not allowed to say, Deputy Speaker?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 136 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I am talking to you.
Withdraw that statement immediately.

Ms P MADOKWE: Which statement am I withdrawing, Deputy Speaker?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The one you said about Mr Ramaphosa.

What you said he did.

Ms P MADOKWE: I said a lot of things about him.

Can you please ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Withdraw it!

If you don’t withdraw it ... Ms P MADOKWE: I said a lot of things, Deputy Speaker.

I said a lot of things about him, please just ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just withdraw!

Are you prepared to withdraw?


Ms P MADOKWE: What am I withdrawing?

[Interjections.]

Please be specific as to what you want me to withdraw so that I can withdraw.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 137 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I am not going to repeat what you said ... Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of order.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You should repeat it!

You should repeat it!

You should withdraw.


Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, can I rise on a point of order.

There is nothing that commissar Phiwaba is going to withdraw there.

[Interjections.]

There is nothing to ...

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If you don’t want to repeat it, you should stop talking!

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Can I rise on a point of order, Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You should stop talking if you are not going to withdraw.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

Hon member, I am talking to a member here.

You should wait so that I can give you a chance to speak.

Hon member, withdraw!

[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 138 Ms E N NTLANGWINI: ... protecting my member!

I am protecting my member from your unruly behaviour.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member!

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: I am protecting my member from your unruly behaviour.

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ntlangwini!

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

Ms P MADOKWE: Can you specify what exactly am I withdrawing.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: No, I am protecting my member from your unruly behaviour.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ntlangwini, you are taking without being recognised.

You are going to leave this House.

You will leave this House!

You will leave this House!

[Interjections.]

Hon member!

Hon member!

Hon member!

You have a choice to withdraw or you should go to your seat.

Ms P MADOKWE: There is nothing I am withdrawing.


Please be specific.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 139 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.

[Interjections.]

Hon ... What did she say?

Ms P MADOKWE: Please be specific as to why am I supposed to withdraw.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, hon member, if you don’t want to withdraw then you should stop talking.

Ms P MADOKWE: But what am I withdrawing.

Can I please be told what exactly am I withdrawing?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If you don’t want to withdraw then you are not proceeding.

I told you and you chose not you hear.

You should leave the podium, hon member.

Ms P MADOKWE: Can you please be specific.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I told you ... Ms P MADOKWE: What exactly am I supposed to withdraw.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What you said about Mr Ramaphosa, the President, you must withdraw.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 140 Ms P MADOKWE: I have said a lot of things about the President.

What exactly am I withdrawing?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Withdraw it!

If you don’t, then you should go.

Ms P MADOKWE: I have said a lot of things about the President.

Which one am ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You should withdraw!

Ms P MADOKWE: What am I withdrawing?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are not going to continue.

I can assure you of that.

I can assure you of that!


Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are not going to continue.

You are not going to continue - simple!

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, go and sit down.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 141 Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have a choice.

[Interjections.]

Hon members I don’t want your help.

Hon members?

Mr N L S KWANKWA: But you are not helping us, sir.


We don’t know what the member said.

We don’t know what she is supposed to withdraw.

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I said you should leave the podium if you refuse to withdraw what you said.

Ms P MADOKWE: But what am I withdrawing, Deputy Speaker?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members.

Hon members ... Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of order?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am not your conduit for unparliamentary language and she is going to withdraw.

Hon member!

Hon member, get off from the podium there.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 142 Ms O M C MAOTWE: Can we help you?

Deputy Speaker, can we help you?

May I rise on a point of order.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You get off from the podium.

You are not going to proceed.

Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of order.
Ms P MADOKWE: What am I withdrawing?

Please advise ... Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of order.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are not going to proceed without withdrawing your statement.

Ms O M C MAOTWE: Stop being a bully, wena [you] Deputy Speaker.

What’s your problem?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You refuse to do it, then you are not going to proceed.

You know what you said!

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 143 Ms O M C MAOTWE: Stop being a bully.
She’s asking what must she withdraw.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s your speech is not mine.

And I pointed out what is it that you said.

[Interjections.]

You go ahead and withdraw.

Ms O M C MAOTWE: She is not withdrawing anything.

She is not withdrawing anything, wena [you] Deputy Speaker.

Stop being a bully.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are wasting your time and our time.

Ms P MADOKWE: Deputy Speaker, I have ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, this is the last time I call you.
If you don’t want to I will call the Serjeant-at-arms to remove you.

Ms P MADOKWE: I did not say that I am not going to withdraw.

I asked what exactly am I supposed to withdraw.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, get away from the podium if you refuse to withdraw.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 144 Ms P MADOKWE: I want to pick this again now.

I am asking a simple question.

What is it that I am supposed to withdraw?


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are not going to proceed, hon member.

Please, just get off the ...

[Interjections.]

Ms P MADOKWE: It’s not enough that you want to ...

[Inaudible.]

... again.

Tell me what is it that I am supposed to ...

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I have indicated what the member should say.

[Interjections.]

In your immediate response, so, she must withdraw that.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: We didn’t hear you.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You must withdraw that.

What is unparliamentary is in the Rules and you know it.

I am not going to be your conduit for unparliamentary remarks that you make knowingly and you want me to repeat them.

I am not going to repeat your unparliamentary remarks, and you know them.

[Interjections.]

If you don’t want to withdraw them, then you forfeit your right to speak.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 145 Ms E N NTLANGWINI: May I rise on a point of order, Deputy Speaker.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Paraphrase it for us then, Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Deputy Speaker, you would know per the Rules.

You need to tell the member what she said and what is unparliamentary on what she had said.

[Interjections.]

You must follow the Rules to the tee.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon ... Ms E N NTLANGWINI: You can’t expect ... Now you are saying she must withdraw.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member.

Hon member.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Okay, she withdraws “was”.

She withdraws “was”.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 146 Ms E N NTLANGWINI: She withdraws the word “was”.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member.


Ms E N NTLANGWINI: She withdraws the word “was” and she withdraws the word “the”.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have finished talking now!

Take your seat!

[Interjections.]

Take your seat, hon member.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Withdraw “the”.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, each one of you here knows the Rules.

You knowingly make statements in the House and when I ask you to withdraw you should withdraw them.

Simple!

[Interjections.]

Yes, hon member.


What are you rising on, hon member?

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I am not challenging your ruling, Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, talk to me, please.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 147 The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I’m saying to you that I think it is unreasonable for you as a presiding officer not to tell us what we have to withdraw.

It is important as well ...

[Interjections.]

... because you really ...


[Inaudible.]

... rulings of unparliamentary language The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I’ll tell you.

I spoke immediately after this member made mention of the President.

[Interjections.]

Listen to me!

Listen to me!

Hon member, I spoke immediately after she said it, and I said withdraw that.

So, she must withdraw that.

You will go to Hansard if you want it.

IsiXhosa: Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi Sekela Somlomo.

Sekela Somlomo, hayi, hayi ...

[Uwele-wele.]


English: Haai, [No] Deputy Speaker.

No, no.

no!

Deputy Speaker, no, no, no.

No, no, no!

[Interjections.]

No, no, no!

Deputy Speaker ...

[Interjections.]

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker ...

[Inaudible.]

... to advise my parliamentary caucus ...

[Interjections.]

... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 148 IsiXhosa: Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Ayikho le nto uyenzayo ngoku.
English: The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: ... ruled is unparliamentary so that they don’t repeat it.

[Interjections.]

I can’t do that if it’s not on record ...

[Interjections.]

... An HON MEMBER: Correct, and some of us are following these ...

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let me point out to you that I have made a ruling here ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

I have made a ruling on this matter and the ruling is that as soon as the hon member made reference to the President in the way she did, and where she stopped I said to her to withdraw what she is saying.

...

[Interjections.]

Ms O M C MAOTWE: You don’t even know yourself ...

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... because it is unparliamentary.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 149 Ms O M C MAOTWE: You don’t know, that is why you can’t say it.
You don’t know what you said yourself.

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If she refuses to do so ...

[Interjections.]

... authority of the chair ... IsiXhosa: Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Uqalile ke ngoku wena, hayi ...[Ngokungavakaliyo.]

Uqalile Sekela Somlomo, hayi.

English: The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... she is breaking an additional Rule ...

[Interjections.]

... and she is not going to proceed.

Ms O M C MAOTWE: No, you don’t know yourself what you wanted withdrawn.

[Interjections.]

You don’t know.


[Interjections.]

You are just wasting your own time.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, but in all fairness ...

I mean we are on the platform.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you should get away from the podium.

Serjeant-at-arms ... UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 150 Mr N L S KWANKWA: But you see you don’t recognise us from the platform as if we are not in the House.

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ...

[Interjections.]


... Serjeant-at-arms get the member to get off the podium.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Ae, no, Deputy Speaker, aa, aa, no man.

IsiXhosa: Hayi, uyamosha ngoku Mhlekazi [Uwele-wele.]

English: The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are requested to leave the House.

[Interjections.]

IsiXhosa: Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi, uyamosha ngoku.

English: The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ... hon members, order!

Mr N L S KWANKWA: No, there is no order here.

You are out of order, sir.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 151 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are refusing ... Mr N L S KWANKWA: But you are out of order.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ... IsiXhosa: Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi Sekela Somlomo uyamosha ngoku ... English: ... in all honesty.

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you must now leave the House.

IsiXhosa: Nksz B MATHULELWA: Sekela Somlomo, ingathi uthunyiwe.
Ingathi uthunyiwe ukuba mawenze oku ... [Uwele-wele] English: The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are going to reap ... Hon member!

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, we are trying to help you, sir.

We are not trying to degenerate the House.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 152 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please leave the House.

Ms V T MALINGA: The spokesperson of the House ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, leave the House.


Mr N L S KWANKWA: I am not a ... IsiXhosa: ... nam ndixakiwe, English: I am a Member of Parliament and I have to say something when things go wrong.

Deputy Speaker, I raised my ...

[Interjections.]

IsiXhosa: ... akafuni.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ...

[Interjections.]

Ms P MADOKWE: All what I am asking is to be told what I need to withdraw.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 153 IsiXhosa: Mr N L S KWANKWA: Kodwa ayikho le nto ayenzayo.

English: The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, will you leave the House.

[Interjections.]

Ms B MATHULELWA: May I rise on a point of order?

Mr N L S KWANKWA: For what?

Ms B MATHULELWA: May I rise on a point of order, Deputy Speaker?

IsiXhosa: Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi suka, hayi suka ...

[Ngokungavakaliyo.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Serjeant-at-arms ...

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

Ms B MATHULELWA: May I rise on a point of order, Deputy Speaker?

[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 154 Mr N L S KWANKWA: But this is not the Deputy Speaker’s House.

This is our House.

IsiZulu: Nk B MATHULELWA: Heyi wena, yini manje.

English: Just be ...

[Interjections.]

Ms B MATHULELWA: May I rise on a point of order, Deputy Speaker?

Point of order!

[Interjections.]

Mr N L S KWANKWA: No man!

No, no, no, no!


The Deputy Speaker is actually bullying the hon member.

IsiXhosa: Ayikho le ayenzayo.

English: And also in the House when we are trying to rise on points of order we are not being recognised.

It’s almost like we are not in the House.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 155 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are going to have to leave the House.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker ... Mr N L S KWANKWA: No man, but this thing ...

[Interjections.]

Deputy Speaker, but we are also in the House.

When we follow these proceedings virtually we are also in the House and when we rise on a point of order you are supposed to entertain it.

[Interjections.]

THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: ... Order, hon Deputy Speaker.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

IsiXhosa: Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hayi, ngumdudo wamasele lo ... English: THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: With due respect, hon Deputy Speaker.

No one is ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 156 THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: I am rising on a point of ...

[Interjections.]

... Hon Deputy Speaker, I am rising on a point of order without challenging your ruling.

[Interjections.]
[Interjections.]

I am rising on a point of order, hon Deputy Speaker, without engaging on your ruling.

But the fact here is that the hon member is requesting you to explain what is that she must withdraw.

She is not refusing to withdraw.

I am sorry to do this to you, but we are trying to assist because we are all here, please, Deputy Speaker.

Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker ...

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, hon member.


Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order and just to follow the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, would it not be advisable in the interest of us proceeding – I know it’s the last day of our session – that you refer to Hansard and you can rule at some other time.

You can reconsider your ruling after you have looked at Hansard and then we continue with this session.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 157 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much.

Hon Gwarube?

Ms S GWARUBE: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.

Deputy Speaker, the problem we have here is that this would set a very bad precedent for the House if we do not have a codified list of words that are deemed unparliamentary, then we will never know not to repeat them.
And you refusing to repeat what words the member used is now causing this House to be entirely disorderly, and it would collapse the House.

So, I am pleading with you Deputy Speaker to refer to the specific words that should be deemed unparliamentary for record purposes so that we will all know what words to use and what words not to use.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: And hon Deputy Speaker ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can I just ... Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, may I also say something.
You didn’t hear all of us.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, yes, yes.

Where are you?

Go ahead.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: We wanted to ...

[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 158 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, take your seat and settle down.

Hon members!

Hon members standing.

Hon Mazzone.

Hon members, take your seat please.

Settle down.

Hon members, order!

Order!

IsiXhosa: Ms B MATHULELWA: Ingathi ukuluhlu olubhatalwa nguMongameli kodwa Sekela Somlomo.
English: The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You will be orderly, hon members.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, go ahead, hon member.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: I just have an appeal.

Even when we called you earlier, rising on points of order, we wanted to help the House.

We didn’t want to disrupt the proceedings of the House.

But I want to appeal to you that you should treat us the same as those members who are sitting in the House physically.
When we rise on points of order on the platform here is because we want to help you, and we also want to help with the proceedings of the House.

I mean it is unfair that we rise on UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 159 points of order by raising hands, trying to interject and cannot be recognised, in the process of you arriving or making a decision.

Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.

Alright.

Thank you, hon member for raising that.


We will co-ordinate better with the front desk so that I can see when you have your hand up on the screen there.

We will do that.

Hon members, these are my reasons for not repeating what was said earlier on.

I will repeat it and it is for the last time it happens, and I tell you why.

I am aware that this is a deliberate intention to say things and give an impression you don’t remember when you know exactly what you said ...

[Interjections.]

...


I am talking ... Ms E N NTLANGWINI: On a point of order ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members!

Hon members, I am talking and I gave you an opportunity to speak.

Breaking the Rules and playing clever by half is unacceptable.

It is unacceptable!

This hon member, in her remarks, she said Mr Ramaphosa, the President is busy with money laundering.

This is the expression she used.

Hon members, you cannot make such a statement in the House without a substantive motion.
And if you don’t want to withdraw, hon member, I have already ruled UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 160 on you anyway.

So, you withdraw, you have a choice.

Hon member?

Ms P MADOKWE: What is the other choice, Deputy Speaker?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are playing games now.

I have told you what you said.

If you don’t withdraw, would you please go, and I am not repeating this.

Ms P MADOKWE: It is fine; I will not withdraw.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, yes.


You should leave the House.

Hon Hlengwa?

Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you, very much hon Deputy Speaker, it is a matter of public record ... [Interjections] ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, leave the House, you can’t sit.

Hon member, you can’t sit there, you must leave.

[Interjections.]

No, no, no you must leave, hon member.

[Interjections.]

Serjeant-at-arms please escort the member out of the House.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 161 Hon members, don’t complicate things by pointing at me, please.

Please leave!

Hon member Madokwe, I have asked you to leave.

Hon members on your feet, you either settle down or leave with her.

You have a choice.

Ms P MARAIS: Deputy Speaker, point of order please?

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Who’s speaking?

Hon Madokwe, please leave the House.

Ms P MARAIS: Deputy Speaker, point of order please?

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please leave ...


[Interjections.]

No, no let me finish with the member please, respectfully.

The House and its Rules must be respected and if we are not able to enforce any rules in the House then there is no point in us sitting here.

We called the member to comply with the rulings of the Presiding Officer.

Ms P MARAIS: Speaker, but you said there in front that she must leave the podium and go sit down, now you are saying that she must leave the House.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 162 THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I said that the member must leave the House.

She refused to withdraw and she must leave the House [Interjections.]

You can’t debate this ruling that I made.

Ms P MARAIS: But, you said she must leave the podium.

You said that she must leave the podium, you did not say that she must leave the House.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you can’t debate a ruling that I made.
You are violating the Rules of the House.

Leave hon Madokwe, please leave.

You are obstructing the House.

You are now obstructing the House.

Hon member, leave!

IsiZulu: Sicela uhambe lungu elihloniphekile Madokwe.

Ms P MARAIS: You ANC people are useless.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Hlengwa, please proceed.

[Interjections.]

Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I think until order is restored, it will be difficult to hear hon Hlengwa.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 163 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I did say that hon member, thank you very much.

Go ahead hon Hlengwa.

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, it is a matter of public record that the IFP has been pleading with government for years now to provide relief to ordinary South Africans in relation to the ever-increasing fuel prices.
We have written letter upon letter, amongst others, and in July 2018 to the then Speaker, Baleka Mbete, to request an urgent debate calling for the suspension of fuel levies as we are debating today.

This request was rejected, resulting in a protracted exchange of correspondence until the debate was scheduled.

We launched a Suspend Fuel Levies Campaign that same year, followed by an open letter to the President in October 2018, echoing the cries of South Africans calling for an urgent reprieve.
I will remind the President now, as I did in my letter to him, of an ANC statement of 16 September 1993 titled ANC demands suspension of petrol price increase, which said the following: UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 164 The ill-considered and uncaring decision to increase the petrol price only confirms the NP government does not have the interests of the majority of South Africans, who are poor and struggling desperately to make ends meet, at heart.
Now is the time for them to establish the tradition of a government that cares for and consults with its citizens.

It is both ironic and tragic that as opposition parties today and every other day since, we now find ourselves echoing this same petition and that the ruling party, who have the means to make a lasting difference, consistently choose to ignore the plight of the poor.
During the almost four years since that open letter, the IFP has continued to unfailingly call upon government to review the fuel price structure, in particular the excessive levies that form almost a third of the cost of a litre of petrol.

Most recently in March 2022, after we again called on government to suspend fuel levies with immediate effect, temporary relief was offered by the Minister of Finance and has since been extended to August 2022.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 165 Unfortunately, this was merely a smokescreen.

As of 3 August the fuel levy will be reinstated in full, with the public, again, left to carry, not only the increase fuel cost but, the rapidly rising cost of food and other necessities that accompany every fuel hike.
However, according to a 31 May joint media statement by Treasury and the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy, DMRE, it seems another decrease is on the cards: After review and a consultation by DMRE it is proposed that the basic fuel levy price also be decreased by 3 cents per litre in the coming months.

This is a complete insult to the people of South Africa, particularly one considers that billions of rands that are ferreted away each and every year by government departments.
The Road Accident Fund, RAF, which is funded through an exorbitant fuel base levy, continues to be mismanaged and it is now in court challenging a disclaimed audit outcome.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 166 Why must the people continue through fuel levies, funs an entity quite clearly unable to manage its own financial affairs?

The entire fuel structure must be changed in favour of commuters, consumers and the economy.

Fuel levies are not a blank cheque.


According to the Auditor-General, AG’s, 2021 citizen’s report detailing the audits of national and provincial governments, unauthorized expenditure has increased every year for the past three years, reaching R3,2 billion in 2021.

Further, irregular expenditure soured to R166 billion and R1,7 billion in fruitless and wasteful expenditure.

This is over R170 billion lost.

Yet government can only offer citizens a 3 cent per litre reduction [Time expires.]
Thank you, Chair.

Afrikaans: Dr W J BOSHOFF: Agb Adjunkspeaker, die krisis wat ons tans met brandstofpryse beleef, is ’n krisis bo-op ’n krisis.

Die Suid- Afrikaans ekonomie was reeds nie in ’n goeie toestand nie toe ’n oorlog uitbreek - en oorloë het ’n manier om uit te breek waar olie volop is - waaroor ons geen beheer het nie.

Met ’n UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 167 swak Rand en ’n hoë olieprys, word die prys van brandstof net eenvoudig onbekostigbaar.
Energie wat te duur is, kan ’n ekonomie tot stilstand bring.

Dit kan maak dat daar niks anders meer gebruik kan word nie, want energie is immers die dryfkrag van enige ekonomie.

English: Now, the components of the fuel price can be taken back to the basic fuel price, which not a lot can be done about it, it can be recalculated in another way but according to the price of the rand and according to the price of crude oil.
Then we have the different margin for retail and for wholesale, and we can tweak that, but maybe that wouldn’t make such a difference either.

It lets me think a lot about somebody who’s always being stopped at the aeroplane for luggage which is too heavy and then decides to pack short-sleeve shirts rather than long- sleeve shirts, it may help but it’s not going to make the difference.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 168 The we have the Road Accident Fund, and a lot of diesel, even petrol, is burned by people who want to get around loadshedding.

That petrol or diesel never see a road and should not contribute towards the Road Accident Fund.

And then we have the tax, the normal ... the levy which goes into the fiscus, which is around R4,77.
In South Africa we don’t tax maize-meal because it is a staple, because we know that a lot of won’t have anything to eat if you tax maize-meal, although other things are taxed.

We also don’t tax small incomes.

There’s an amount you have go over before you have to start paying taxes.

Afrikaans: Dis ’n drempel in Afrikaans.

English: Petrol and diesel is approaching the stage where we can’t tax that either, because it will grind the whole economy to a halt at this price.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 169 If we compare the money which will be lost to the fiscus if we take the petrol levy or the fuel levy away, it’s about R90 billion per annum.

If we compare that to lost revenue due to the covid-related – what you call the - ... Afrikaans: ... grendelstaat.

English: ... when we compare it to the last ... due to the lockdown, that was about R300 billion, and that was taken from the economy.
If we just end the petrol levy, then we inject another R90 billion into the economy, which will be spent by businesses, by consumers and it will add to the economy, it can ignite economic growth.

Therefore, it might not be a loss to the economy, it might actually be a gain, even to the fiscus.

Therefore, this is the FF-Plus’ plea, that everything which goes to the state, out of the petrol and diesel price, should just be abolished.

Thank you very much.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 170 Mr W M THRING: Hon Deputy Speaker, the ACDP agrees with most South Africans in stating that the recent fuel hikes could not have come at a worst time.

Taking the price to just under R25 per litre for inland users and around R24 per litre along the coast.
South Africans are struggling under the weight of 46% unemployment on the expanded definition, rolling blackouts, business closures from the harsh lockdown and irrational covid regulations, flooding drought and collapsing service delivery.

Hon Deputy Speaker, any rational thinking person will conclude that the majority of South Africans just cannot afford to pay for these increases in the fuel levy.
With the global price of oil currently sitting at over US$180 per barrel and the rand weakening at R16,11 to the dollar, our currency has been vulnerable to the bouts of weakness due to strengthening of the dollar.

As the net importer of crude oil, this paints a grim picture, for not only South African motorists but the general public at large.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 171 The ACDP agrees with the economists that every aspect of our economy, including consumers and businesses alike, would be hard hit by the fuel hikes.

The impact will be severe and will have a ripple effect further down the economy on a macro level in terms of inflation.

Transporters of goods and passengers cannot absorb the increase cost of fuel as this will put them out of business.
The reality is that these increase cost will be transferred to the public.

We must do away with what economists call price stickiness, even though we are price takers when it comes to oil.

We must rid this government and its departments of corruption, fraud, inefficiencies and jobs for cadres.

For, in so doing, there will be sufficient reserves to cover these exorbitant fuel levies.
While welcoming the reduction in the fuel levy where with the extension R1,50 will be taken off the general fuel levy in June and will then be half to 75 cents per litre in July, the ACDP adds its voice to those of concerned South Africans calling for the scrapping of the fuel levy.

And furthermore calls on African countries rich in oil to sell to the African counterparts at a price which will ensure that the African economies will not collapse.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 172 The ACDP cares, and only the uncaring will continue to inflict hardships on the poorest of the poor by these exorbitant fuel levies.

Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, South Africa already grappling with high unemployment, floods, violent crime and economic decline, yet it is facing another challenge of the rise in fuel prize.

The recent increase means fuel is around 40% more expensive than a year ago.
This naturally affects the inflation which is the increase in prize of goods in South Africa.

The prize increases reduce the purchasing power of money that in turn has adverse impact on consumer welfare.

For an example take the case of people in rural areas who solely depend on grants to buy food, build houses, support their children with a mere R1 900 a month.

How are they expected to survive?


Also imagine a MaDlamini from Khayelitsha, who is unemployed and has to pay about R110 just for a two litre of cooking oil.

It is difficult for our people to survive.

That calls on us as leaders to do something and to intervene in the market and show that we provide even more protection to the poor and the vulnerable.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 173 Imagine also a young student and young people who use public transport to go and look for jobs.

With these prizes rising they might end up instead of looking for jobs, they would have to consider the opportunity cost of taking a taxi to look for a job in order to submit a curriculum vitae, CV, and to buy a loaf of bread, because of the cost of living has become expensive and is causing frustrations to the poor.
We must not be surprised if the poor rise up and rebel against us because we are not reacting to their challenges and to their concerns timeously.

Hon Deputy Speaker, we are of the view that for instance if you will recall that Africa launched its continental free trade area.

There was a huge launch where the Presidents of different countries signed the launching of the continental free trade agreement.

The purpose of that was to boost intra- Africa trade.
For us it makes perfect or better sense for South Africa to start considering importing fuel from African countries within Africa and enter into negotiations to make sure that the prices they charge are reasonable.
We have a responsibility as this House and as leaders in general to make sure that we may consider further adjustments UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 174 on taxes and levies billed into the petrol prize which contributes significantly to the high fuel price that our people pay on a daily basis.
Failure to do so, we will result in ... IsiXhosa: ... into yokuba abantu bakuthi basiqhankqalazele, basibethe kwaye bangasiqondi kuba asikwazi ukuthetha nabo nge ... English: ... imported inflation without being able to demonstrate clearly and interactly what we have tried to do in the medium to long-term to alleviate the plight of the poor on this very important question.

Thank you, Deputy Speaker.


Mr B N HERRON: Hon Deputy Speaker, already hard-pressed South African consumers are braising for another double dose of pain with increasing fuel prices and increasing municipal rates of electricity and water tariffs, if in fact you consider the seasonal costs of keeping warm in the dead of winter.

The state will argue that there is very little it can do to intervene.
It will point out that South Africa does not pump its own oil or refine oil any longer, so the base prices of UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 175 petrol, diesel and paraffin are beyond our control.

And it will say that the country cannot afford to forego the R1,50 general fuel levy which was suspended for a few months forever.

With respect to electricity prices, as ...

[Inaudible.]

... calls them, we are presently held hostage by Eskom’s monopoly and gross inefficiency.
Most South Africans have little option but to cough up for the insult.

Water true is a basic necessity and few residents have alternative sources to their supply by the municipalities.

The truth however is that the state does have the power to cushion citizens from their pain.

To exercise the power and prioritise debt which should be prioritised requires a mind- set shift in the state’s approach to the way it spends its money.
Instead of dividing the revenue according to historic formulas and spending patterns, we should be cutting the cloth to fit the suit we actually need.

Informed by our most pressing prioritise.

The approach is known as zero-based budgeting.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 176 It is not that the state cannot afford to forego the R1,50 of the fuel levy, or that our towns and cities cannot afford to add tariffs to our electricity and water bills or that we cannot afford the basic income grant for that matter, the reason we cannot afford these things is because we prioritise other things.
South Africa’s economy stumbling before COVID-19 is battling to resurrect itself.

Many people are suffering.

When you already cannot afford to live; how can you possibly afford more increases to the cost of living?

Fuel and electricity prices and hikes do not just affect owners of vehicles or domestic users; they have a knock on impact on the prices of just about everything else right down to the price of food, school stationary and medicines.
Through action such as a temporary reduction in the fuel levy introducing the R350 Social Relief Grant, the state has already indicated good intentions.

Now, it must take the very next step, getting struggling South African through the economic quick sand we are in and reducing the hardship and indignity of profound poverty.

This is the priority.

We must fund our national priorities and defund wasteful and unnecessary expenditure.

Thank you.
Thank you.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 177 Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Deputy Speaker, I heard my colleague, the hon Kwankwa talking about getting oil from the African countries.

Well right now why not getting it from Russia?

Pay with a ruble.

No problem, plenty of oil.

[Applause.]

It is just the matter of ode ring and it will be delivered.

Let us not forget that some of us own the oil and others control it.

And of course through the dollar.


So, maybe it is time to relook at: Why the price of oil, is what it is today?

Like many other commodities we all have, but in the hands of a few.

Particularly the African continent.

Let us not forget about that.

Now, yes indeed I must agree that we need to bring the cost of fuel down, because when the cost of fuel rises, it impacts on the most vulnerable.

The cost of food products, and traveling go up.

There is no doubt about it.


However, we need to look at some of the challenges our people face particularly if you talk about travel costs.
The spatial planning instead of taking businesses or people to live closer to the work, they are living far away from work which impacts on the money they have available to spend on food clothing and shelter because most of their money and I think a very great UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 178 percentage of a vulnerable person of an ordinary citizen’s money today goes to travel.

Now the Road Accident Fund has been very badly managed.

Let us all admit that.


Maybe it is time to do away with the Road Accident Fund.

However, not entirely.

Maybe let us include that in the licencing.

Let us privatise it.

Let some private insurance companies come in and deal with the issues of the Road Accident Fund because clearly, when it is controlled by the state, there is a perception out there that the state is a cash cow and lots of the legal experts have been manipulating the system and benefitting unduly from that.
So, maybe it is time to actually privatise that and take it away from the control of the government.

The other way I think I must agree that if we could the retail, wholesale and margins if they are being allowed to have competition of course, it can bring the prices down.

When they start competing you will have a choice whether you want to go to a Shell or Caltex garages.

That is one of the ways I think that we will be able to reduce the cost of fuel.
However, what it is important to note that South Africa has a serious problem currently and that is the level of poverty is UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 179 very high.

Based on that when we have increases of this nature, particularly the most vulnerable people suffer as a result of this.

So, I think in order to lower this costs we need to consider some of these things.
I know that there are lots of people waiting in the Russian harbours to be able to come through to South Africa and let us take advantage of it.

Remember many others were sanctioned during the days of apartheid.

Thank you.

[Time expired.]

Mr M G MAHLAULE: Deputy Speaker, the public outcry by hon Kevin Mileham of the DA against the regulation of the domestic oil market will likely to lead to mix effects.
Of course, the deregulation of the domestic oil market in some ways will pave the future that will set South Africa on a route to recovery in response to the fuel price hikes through the promotion of competition.

However, in other ways will trigger the perverse negative effects that must be avoided at all costs.

For instance, South Africa is not a landlocked country from an exogenous view point, but it does not have favourable geographical locations from the indigenous view point either.
In particular, six out of nine provinces are not coastal and thus do not have the direct access to the sea to trade goods directly in the international system.

As such non-coastal provinces which are mostly former Bantustan homelands will be UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 180 disadvantaged by the deregulation of the domestic oil market as they will incur spikes in transport costs and petrol prices due to their distance from the coastal lines.
Hon Deputy Speaker, the proposal for the deregulation of a domestic oil industry by hon Mileham is a smokescreen.

To be frank deregulation will disadvantage the agricultural and mining sectors in the non-coastal provinces as the current regulatory system averages the secondary transport costs whilst a deregulated market will contain actual transport and storage costs as part of the margin.
At the moment the regulation of the domestic oil market by the ANC-led government ensures that non-coastal provinces pay the same amount as coastal provinces for the transport and storage costs of petroleum products to their communities whereas deregulation will negatively affect communities in the non- coastal provinces as delivering small volumes of petroleum products over long distances is expensive.
Moreover, the regulation of the domestic oil market by the ANC-led government already brings relief to the people through cheaper input costs for food security due to the pricing mechanism which only recognises one average price for the transport and storage costs of petroleum products.
The UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 181 proposal made by hon Mileham that the deregulation of domestic oil market is the best way that the ANC-led government can minimise the burden of fuel price hikes on the poorer motorists and households as well as emerging small businesses must be understood within a framework of special interests versus collective interests.
Hon Mileham makes his proposal for the deregulation of the domestic oil market on the basis of special interests rather than collective interests.

Therefore, this special interests style approach results in the distortion of one crucial issue.

Currently, 75% of South Africa’s petroleum products is consumed between KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng provinces which is the direct results not only of the Durban to Johannesburg pipeline, but also the concentrated market structure of the apartheid era.
One of the greatest risk of this market concentration is that if left unregulated it can induce oil majors to pull out from areas where the transport and storage costs of petroleum products are above the level of recovery in favour of areas where the actual costs are below the costs of recovery.

In short, the deregulation of domestic oil market is likely to favour the poorer motorists and households as well as emerging businesses in Gauteng where the DA currently runs the metros.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 182 This misleading proposal for the deregulation of domestic oil market reflects the beggar-by-thy-neighbour neoliberal policy where the benefits of deregulation will be enjoyed by some provinces while adversely affecting other provinces such as the Western Cape with the rise in shipping costs in that province.
In other words, hon Mileham is a flip-flopper who comes in Parliament calling for the deregulation of the domestic oil market, but in reality deregulation will reflect actual and not average scores for the storage and transportation of petroleum products thereby increasing fuel prices in the Western Cape rather than reducing them.

Hon Mazzone, I will ask you to pronounce my surname and you will fail dismally.
His proposal that the Competition Commission can address market concentration has the greatest emotional appeal to the public at large.

The domestic oil market is, of course, more complicated than the fallacy in this proposal.

The oil industry is capital intensive which implies that there is limited access than open access in the industry.

Moreover, the Fuel Retailer Association report highlighted that 60% of the 4 790 service stations in South Africa are under the control of oil majors.
This is an indication that transformation in the domestic oil market remains a challenge.

Therefore, the internal monopoly UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 183 of oil majors would not necessarily break down under the pressure of competition as a result of the deregulation proposed by hon Mileham.

The Competition Commission cannot eliminate the danger of significant monopoly control over the oil majors in South Africa.
Even if the Competition Commission was to curb the monopoly control of oil majors it will not be able to deal with the possibilities of increased delivery costs to non-coastal provinces and the withdrawal from supplying these provinces due to high costs which will ultimately trigger shortage of petrol products.

By now, Deputy Speaker, you should be aware that this hon member comes to Parliament in his pyjamas as he is clearly sleeping on the job through sleeping on fact-based evidence.
Hon Mileham further proposes that ...

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members!

Order, hon members, order!

Order, hon Mahlaule, just one second.

Yes, hon Mazzone, what are you rising on?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, the hon Mahlaule is just indicating that Mr Mileham ...

[Interjections.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 184 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Oh, please, oh, please, just give the hon member a chance to finish, please.
I can’t hear her.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Mahlaule ...

[Inaudible.]

what you want, has just indicated that Mr Mileham comes to Parliament dressing up with pyjamas.

Now, it’s not my fault that gentleman ...

[Inaudible.]

but anyone else consider that Mr Mileham is perfectly in good suit ...

[Inaudible.]

not that insult ...

[Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mazzone, must you really take away our time like that.

No, no, no that’s out of order, that’s not a point of order.
Go ahead, hon Mahlaule.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, please, can I have that ruling be sent to the Rules Committee for investigation.

Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no, the Rules Committee won’t accept it even to come in even through the window, absolutely ...

[Interjections.]

... No, no, no, we don’t have to debate that.

go ahead, hon Mahlaule ...

[Interjections.]

... What’s that?

Hon Paulsen, cool your heels, please man.

Just cool your heels.

Go ahead, hon Mahlaule.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 185 Mr M G MAHLAULE: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.

This hon member further proposes that the ANC-led government should scrap the fuel levy entirely as it is regressive tax an impact on input costs to the economy.

This will supposedly save the poorer motorist and households as well as the emerging small businesses approximately R3,93 per litre.
His attempt to put pressures on the ANC-led government to conceive his ill-advice will not make the inevitable fuel price hikes and the ...

[Inaudible.]

living conditions of the majority even worse in two negative ways.

Firstly, South Africa is a net import of crude oil and petroleum products.

Therefore, it does not have a monopsony power to drive a high bargain with international oil producers and subsequently impose an unduly no price on that.
The international price for petroleum products is set by international refining centres from which international oil producers set global prices.

In short, it is improbable that scrapping the rand-denominated fuel levy will offset the dollar-denominated imports parity price of oil and petroleum products, unless the strength of the rand improves relative to the dollar which is not likely in this conjecture.
Given the strength of the dollar relative to the rand it is possible to argue, but hon Mileham’s proposal has a glimpse of spite as it UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 186 is clearly tinkering on the edges and speaking about a few cents rather than any major price reduction in the fuel price.
Secondly, South Africa is a tax dependent state and, therefore, collecting taxes from fuel sales generate the much- needed revenue to crowd in funding the support both social programmes like social security grant and the costly nonrenewable resources of energy that he always is fixated on.

This is why the ANC-led government has introduced the temporarily relief on the fuel levy which currently amounts to R1,50 per litre to minimise the burden of fuel price hikes on South African consumers.
However, since hon Mileham as a false Messiah suggests that we should scrap the fuel levy entirely, then he should at least make a concrete proposal to the public about how that revenue which will be lost to the fiscus through scraping the fuel and how we can recoup that under a tight fiscus constrains.

Of course, our neighbouring countries have a lower tax base requirement and therefore fuel is cheaper than in South Africa.
However, a zero sum game the lowering of the fuel tax means recovering of the money for the fiscus from other forms of taxation and this will obviously be a slap in the face of the working class, but not the wealthy rich that the DA UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 187 represents.

In some countries a wealth tax is imposed to reduce inequality and perhaps hon Mileham might consider that as a Private Member’s Bill.
Another proposal made by hon Mileham is that the scrapping of Road Accident Fund, Raf, will induce the burden of fuel price hikes in South Africa consumers.

However, Raf is asocial benefit scheme for users on the roads affected by accidents, and is, therefore, critical.

Privilege will always make somebody ignorant to such things, I’m not surprised - it’s a privilege.
The only sign of cheerful in this debate is that hon Mileham lacks the capacity to grapple with the fact that the costs of scrapping Raf and the fuel levy far outweighs the benefits.

Nevertheless, the committee will continue working with industry stakeholders to find a sustainable way to minimise fuel price hikes including appealing to the Minister to take a long-term review on pricing mechanisms.
In this regard, hon Deputy Speaker, it is important in this session to say that a country must put as critical the restoration of refining capacity to ensure the supply of fuel.

Thank you very much.

[Applause.]

Mr S M JAFTA: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.

The historical demises place back to 27 US$ 27.

It was called then US$ 28 a UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 188 barrel when its actual price at the time was US$ 49 per barrel.

The practical implementation ...


[Inaudible.]

... of price on the poor.

The fuel price increasingly and because of distribution the poor on the economy is also dire.

Revenue streams in the amount of diesel has lowered production.

In agriculture food production has also been affected severely.

The poor rail system has also ensured that our people are forced to use busses and taxis at an increased fare.

We therefore, need to subsidise Africans during this difficult times.
We have been on the record calling off the Value-Added tax, Vat, on stable items to be scraped in order to subsidice the poor.

We also need to diversify our energy streams.

Part of this, hon Speaker, would require a climate sensitive oil exploration drive to caution South Africans from these tides.

We are reliable informed that the World Bank has approved R7,6 billion to South Africa.
This money must help to subsidise the poor and empower the state to develop new partnerships with the private sector particularly in the cost of ...

[Inaudible.]

... deregulate ...

[Inaudible.]

...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ntate, Tafta?

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 189 Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Deputy Speaker?

Hon Deputy Speaker?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Complete your point, Ntate.

Your time is flying out here.

Mr S M JAFTA: ...

[Inaudible.]

...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Jafta?


We regret, we can’t hear you.

And unfortunately also, we gave you little 12 seconds to see if it works out.

We can’t ... We hope that that infrastructure and reception in this area will improve.

Mr S M JAFTA: Yes.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, we can’t hear you.

So, we had to call the next speaker.

IsiXhosa: Nksz S GWARUBE: Sekela Somlomo, ndithi mandithethe nabantu baseMzantsi Afrika namhlanje, ndingathethi nani maLungu ePalamente.
Isizathu sesokuba lo msebenzi siwenza apha uchaphazela wonke umntu weli lizwe.

Yiyo loo nto kumele siqinisekise ukuba urhulumente wenza kangangoko anako ukukhusela abantu kumaxabiso anyusa umnqantsa abantu abaninzi.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 190 Izigidi ngezigidi zabantu kweli lizwe zihlala kwiimeko zentlupheko.

Abantu abaninzi baswele ingqesho kwaye loo nto ithi kwimizi emininzi akukhomali ingenayo.
Bathi besanyamezele oko, asuke urhulumente we-ANC anyuse ixabiso lepetroli.

Xa kunyuka ixabiso lepetroli loo nto ichaphezela amaxabiso okutya, amaxabiso eeteksi neebhasi ezisingise kwiindawo zokusebenza.

Imali yomzali womntwana owamkela isibonelelo somntwana iphelela endleleni engekafiki nasedolophini, noko kutya aza kuthenga kungaphumi konke.

Abantu bayaphela yindlala, abantwana bakhubazekile ngenxa yokungafumani kutya okusempilweni besiya esikolweni belambile.
Abantu abadala bazondla nzima iintsapho zabo.

Namhlanje ndikhumbula uThabang Van Staden oneminyaka engama-26 othathe ubomi bakhe esaze ngobuso ezweni, kuba ebedinga umsebenzi.

Kufuneka namhlanje sithabathe amanyathelo okususa irhafu kwixabiso lepetroli.

Xa singayenzi loo nto siyakuba sibulala amaphupha abo baxhomekeke kuthi njengenkokeli zabo.

La manani sithetha ngawo apha ngawabantu abaphilayo.

Asenzi nje imizekelo ngamanani.


Ohloniphekileyo uMahlaule uthi urhulumente uxakekile akakwazi ukuwathoba la maxabiso epetroli kodwa akathethi nyaniso.

Inyaniso ekhoyo yeyokuba lo ukhoyo urhulumente akakhathali.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 191 Ukuba besinorhulumente okhathalayo ebengasayi kuvuma ukuba kunyuke amaxabiso epetroli nokutya ngeli zinga silibonayo.

Inyaniso yeyokuba le rhafu siyihlawulayo ingaka ingena kwiipokotho zabo.
Thina apha eMzantsi Afrika siphethwe ngoohlohlesakhe.

Isixa semali yerhafu kwipetroli iya kwingxowa karhulumente.

Ingaba benza ntoni ngale mali?

Ingaba bayithoba ngomlenze, umntu ngamnye azakhele iNkandla nePhala Phala yakhe?

Bachitha isigidi sezigidi e-R1,8 billion bezikhusela ngoonogada namapolisa.

Ukuba urhulumente ebekhathala, ebeza kuthoba ixabiso lepetroli.

Bekufanele ukuba uMphathiswa uMantashe uyichaza namhlanje ukuba irhafu ekwipetroli uyayisusa.
UMphathiswa, ngokwenza njalo ebeza kuthoba ixabiso lokutya, anyuse inkxaso-mali esisibonelelo kubantu abangasebenziyo.

UMphathiswa kufuneka avulele amathuba omsebenzi kuba abantu beli lizwe kudala becinezelekile phantsi kweemeko ezibuhlungu.

Singumbutho weDA senza ikhwelo sisithi makukhululwe abantu kuziswe imisebenzi ukuze kubuyele isidima sabo ebantwini.

Malithotywe eli xabiso lepetroli.

Yisuse le rhafu Mphathiswa uMantashe.

[Kwaqhwatywa.]
[Kwaqhwatywa.]

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY: Deputy Speaker and hon members of this House, I want to make three points.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 192 First, the DA’s survey is something that was not disclosed.

What was the question, because the question in the survey influences the outcomes?

Even if it is a desktop research if your question is, should we cut the price?

Obviously, the answer will be, please cut it.


And we will get hundreds signatures until the question is scientific.

Secondly, one of the things that I have grown to understand is that my Ministry doesn’t talk about levy.

I doesn’t talk about tax, I don’t talk about funds, I don’t talk about finance and I don’t talk about money.

All those things ... IsiXhosa: ... kuxoxwa ngazo kwinto ekuthiwa luhlahlo lwabiwo-mali olukuMphathiswa wezeZimali.

English: That is the second point.


The third point that I want to make is that for society to engage in a comprehensive discussion, we must give society information so that the society debates with us in a rational way.

Let me get to that now.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 193 Hon members, three measure factors impacted on global energy system in the last two years.

The first one was COVID-19 pandemic.

In what way?

It affected the supply across all sectors.


Secondly, it is the increased price of natural gas in Europe in 2021 causing increases in all prices as alternatives were sought.

Prior to the sanctions, Russia was the dominant supplier of diesel in Europe.

Thirdly, the geopolitical conflicts in Central-Eastern Europe resulted in increased prices in crude oil and petroleum products in the last five months.

All of us therefore have a responsibility to inform society instead of just inciting it.
We need to get a solution that will be sustainable, that will be lasting.

The conflict has since moved in to a global economic war involving the west.

Sanctions by the USA and the European Union, EU, on Russia’s oil and petroleum products have resulted in major imbalances in the demand and supply that prompted high fuel prices.

We wished to be insulated from the globe, but we are part of the globe.

We are not insulated from the globe, but we are part of it and not by choice, but is reality.
Other casualties of this situation in South Africa and globally are food prices – cooking oil grains and other food UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 194 items.

The UN Secretary-General amended the high cost of wheat and the potential increase of shortages of basic food stuffs.

That is not by some Ministers in South Africa, but it is the United Nations’ Secretary-General because he has an overview of the globe.
He knows that this does not affect us domestically, but it is affecting the globe.

The use of energy as an economic weapon outset developing countries disproportionately.

We pay higher prices than the developed countries.

That’s why when Europe is under pressure they tell us not to use coal and they go and buy more coal including our coal and use it.

Because they are developed, they have the power and we are an encircled nation which is used as a conduit of ideas of developed nations.
It is an issue that we must deal with it openly as a country.

Angela Merkel, a highly respected leader in the world, cautioned against actions that could make life more difficult for many people around the world.

She has retired and everybody is defying her.

To cut off the Russian Federation from the global petroleum supply, a country that accounts to 11% of the global supply, exposes developing countries to unaffordable price increases.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 195 Our economies are laid bare to imported inflation and high interest rates that could ultimately cause recession throughout the world economies adversely affecting developed and underdeveloped ones.

Imbalance on petroleum product supply may also lead to fuel shortage as Europe competes for alternatives.

Let me explain this because I heard some proposals that, let’s focus on the continent.
Unfortunately, petroleum oil product is prices globally - whether you order it from Angola, you get it in Nigeria or from Equatorial Guinee which we do get from those countries.

Let me tell you that we have increased the volumes from the continent because we have been working on increasing Intra-Africa Trade.

We have the benefits of that, but the reality of the matter is that we are not isolated from the globe.

We are here and we are part of the globe.


This bleak outlook extends to the emergence of China from lock down which will significantly increase the price of crude oil.

Afro airlines in the continent are already experiencing difficulties which they will not survive if the situation sustain beyond six months.

Not in South Africa, but now I am talking about the continent.
UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 196 It therefore begs the question, if as we are told, the conflict is one of democracy versus authoritarianism, why are flagging democracies of developing countries subjected to one untold missile?

It is a debate we should have.

Instead of taking a trip to Ukraine, Mr Steenhuisen, and I take my own trip to Russia, Moscow, it doesn’t matter what we should, but we are talking about ... it requires a detailed analysis rather being simplistic.
Simplistic solutions do not last.

The western countries should be reminded that economic war they have unleashed disproportionately impacts South Africa and countries like ours.

I was reminding somebody last week that I grew up in Cala.

It is a village.

There are things called rondavels with no windows, but just holes.

We use clothes to close them.

If you are beating up a cat and you close a rondavel with no escape route, you are going to lose an eye.
If the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, Nato, wants to extend to Ukraine and squeeze Russia, they are going to lose an eye.

So, there is no simplicity about our analysis.

Let us be scientific.

Hon members, our government is committed to explore numerous possibilities.

Mr Mileham when you were speaking I set there respectfully and respected you.

But I know you can’t.


You are UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 197 going to kick desks and do all sorts of things while I am speaking.

I am expecting it.

It happens all the times.

But when you speak I sit there quietly listening to you respectfully.

Recently, our Ministry together with the Treasury reduced the fuel levy by R1,50 per litre.

It is not by R1,50, but R1,50 per litre.


It makes a big difference because when you just say R1,50 you think that we just give R1,50.

It is R1,50 per litre.

We are contusing with that.

It is for three months now and we have already agreed that at least the best in July we can sustain R0,75.

Where does that money come from?

We normally talk loosely that the Treasury ....

When Mr Mileham was speaking here he referred to the strategic stock.

Somebody referred to the strategic stock.

Was it you?
Was it you?

But somebody referred to the strategic stock.

When the strategic stock was sold there were headlines that somebody has stolen the strategic stock and sold it illegally.

When we brought it back no articles were written about it.

We brought it back, and I am telling you now.

Having brought it back, it is that strategic stock that is helping us to have the capacity to provide the R1,50.
It is not money from the fiscus, but it is about that strategic stock sold to replace UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 198 the relieve to the users.

I have not heard anybody ...[Interjections.]

Paulsen, keep quiet.

I know that you have swallowed the whistle.

Keep quiet!

[Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Paulsen!

Hon members, order please.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Swallow the whistle.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, order please.

Mr M N PAULSEN: ... keep quiet.


Deputy Speaker, this is an example of how you sit on the job.

Order him to withdraw that.

Order him to withdraw that.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I can’t hear you, hon member.

What are you saying?

Mr M N PAULSEN: Order him to withdraw that.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am trying to ask people to be quiet so that I can here you.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Okay, I withdraw that.

My apologies!

It is an insult.

This one insulted me now.

He must withdraw.


UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 199 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member, please take your seat.

Mr M N PAULSEN: No, I’m not going to take my... are you going to order him to withdraw?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What?

Were you insulted?

Are you saying that you were insulted?

Mr M N PAULSEN: This one insulted me.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, but you can’t say this one, speak properly, hon member.

Mr M N PAULSEN: ... he insulted me.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, take your seat, please.

Go ahead, hon Minister.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order, hon member?

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Deputy Speaker, you have perfectly heard it.

If you didn’t hear it, you can ask the staff there in UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 200 front or ...

[Interjections.]

... no I am on a point of order.

What is this?


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, hon member.

“Bua o qete”.

[Speak and get finish] Ms E N NTLANGWINI: The staff there in front of you ...if you didn’t hear it maybe because you were sleeping on a job, or because of the old age or you were busy with something else, there are staff there.

They are supposed to assist you.

The hon Minister made an insult towards Nazier.

He ought to withdraw it.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member!

Hon member!


Ms E N NTLANGWINI: He must withdraw it.

He insulted Nazier and you claim you didn’t hear him.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What’s the insult?

I asked you and him and none of you have said it.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: No, they must tell you.

That’s their job.

The staff in front of you must tell you.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 201 The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay!

Alright!

Alright!

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: They must tell you.


What are they there for?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, hon member.

Take it easy.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: He said Nazier has swallowed the whistle.

That is what he said.

He said Nazier has swallowed the whistle.

Didn’t you hear?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, okay, okay.

First, I must determine whether swallowing a whistle is an insult ... Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Don’t do it!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... and if it is an insult, we will rule against it.
I have never heard such an insult before.

In my 67 years.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: It is an insult.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hold on.

They will tell me.

Hon Minister, proceed.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 202 Ms E N NTLANGWINI: You like to collapse the House and you think you are fun The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Proceed, hon Minister.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: You like to collapse the House and you thinking you are fun.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no!

That’s enough.


Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Hayi suka!

[Fuck yo] The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY: We are dealing with the global challenge, and not just a domestic problem.

Our discussion must be located within a global debate.

That is the appeal I am making to every Member of Parliament.

Our country’s response to these challenges is in line with industrialised countries.

If we do something unique we are likely to miss the point.
I want to remind Members of Parliament that the price of oil was US$121 per barrel yesterday.

It used to be around US$40, and it used to be US$20 per barrel at one time, but it is now US$121 per barrel.

And we must respond to that as a country and not be emotional.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 203 I was talking to the chairperson of the portfolio committee and said to him, we should consider importing crude oil from Russia at a low price because it is not sanctioned.
Of all the sanctions there are no sanctions against crude oil.

So, we can import crude oil from Russia at a lower price.

[Applause.]

Currently, we are not having our own oil except the limited one by Sasol.

The other point that we should work together on is to allow exploration of gas and oil in our land.

There’s plenty of it.

Every time we are taken to court because we are doing exploration.

We must get the support of the country irrespective of party.
The oil that was discovered in Namibia stretches into the Northern Cape side.

The Northern Cape is likely to produce oil in the near future provided we go through our court cases.

That’s it.

We will give it to anybody who wants to do exploration and is prepared to do development.

I am not a prisoner of your white monopoly capital theory which is a flawed theory.

I want development, I want petroleum and I want gas in South Africa.
As we go to a transition to electric vehicle we must accelerate that pace.

Green nitrogen which have started must be accelerated.

Therefore, it is an issue that we must debate.

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 204 I hear the call to do away with the Road Accident Fund.

Culturally, it is not in my scope, but as far as I am concerned it has things to do because the state will have responsibility to accidents.
People must have to be self- ensured and if you are not ensured when you die and you do not get any compensation.

You injure yourself you don’t get any compensation.

If that is the choice that South Africans want to take, it is a choice that must be explicit and we appreciate it.

At this point in time if you say your support was from trucks and all those things, count accidents that are caused by trucks and buses on the road.

There are lot of them.


So as we deal with those issues we must understand them.

Hon members, we are also beginning to notice alteration of fuel.

This is confirmed by the samples picked up in service stations where people mix diesel, petrol and paraffin.

We should deal with those issues.

Let me conclude as my time is getting out.

At present the only sustainable solution for our energy crisis is to end the conflicts in central Europe.

This is the only solution.


Our responsibility as government is to continue implementing measures to mitigate undue burden on consumers.

[Time expired.]

UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 205 Debate concluded The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order hon members, hon members by agreement we will take the following two items as Fifth and Sixth Orders, these are Draft Notices on Magistrate and Judges Salaries.

Further it has also been agreed that there will be no declarations on the items.
The Secretary will read the Fifth Order.

CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT NOTICE AND SCHEDULE DETERMINING THE RATE, WITH EFFECT FROM 1 APRIL 2021, AT WHICH SALARIES, ALLOWANCES AND BENEFITS ARE PAYABLE TO MAGISTRATES ANNUALLY, FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 12(3) OF THE MAGISTRATES ACT, 1993, ACT NO.

90 OF 1993 There was no debate.

Question put.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT NOTICE AND SCHEDULE DETERMINING THE RATE, WITH EFFECT FROM 1 APRIL 2021, AT WHICH SALARIES, UNREVISED HANSARD NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022 Page: 206 ALLOWANCES AND BENEFITS ARE PAYABLE TO CONSTITUTIONAL COURT JUDGES AND JUDGES ANNUALLY, FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 2(4) OF THE JUDGES’ REMUNERATION AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT ACT, 2001, ACT NO 47 OF 2001 There was no debate.

Question put.
Question put.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.

Business of the day concluded.

The House adjourned at 15:59.